Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.34 Talk:Kitchen

2013-09-03T01:26:43Z

2013: /* More than 4 ingredients */

==Examples==
Regarding this edit comment:

"top of the page is no place for examples, move it elsewhere"

The top of the page has had an (incorrect) example since it was imported/created in February. I find it quite irritating that you only decided to remove it less than a day after I spent my time correcting it with current values. I have moved the offending examples to a separate section (which I was in the process of doing before your most recent revert), so hopefully that satisfies your complaint. If not, I believe we will require a third opinion on the content of this page. --[[User:Loci|Loci]] 18:42, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
:The article is still overloaded with some not very useful recommendations, but at least is not so uninformative from the beginning now. --[[User:Emanresu|Emanresu]] 19:18, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

==More than 4 ingredients==
I just noticed that my kitchens have been making many lavish meals with 5 ingredients. Most of the time it is the normal 4, but sometimes 5. Is this a bug or are my legendary cooks just being over-indulgent? (It is not a problem at my fort, I have enough food for 100 years)

:This can occur when you micromanage ingredients. Say your cook picks up a stack of plump helmets to use. You then forbid those plump helmets, and he goes looking for 4 more items. If you unforbid the plump helmets after he has started collecting the fourth item, he will throw the plump helmets in with the other 4 ingredients, making a 5-ingredient roast. --[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:19, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

:I'm not interfering with the cooks, but I have just about every other food operation going on at that fort (booze, cheese, milling, etc), so one of the other workers might be tasking the food before the cook gets it, but then the cook takes it anyway and forgets he had it, like you described.

::I can confirm with no player interference that stacks of up to nine ingredients (and I guess potentially unlimited size) are occasionally formed on repeating lavish meal tasks. I presume one chef gathers up to three ingredients and is then interrupted by thirst or something, followed by a second doing the same, and a third finally gathering their own four ingredients and making a meal of everything that's been stored in the kitchen so far. Just found a couple of 9000+ value food stacks at the trade depot and wondered what was up. My stockpiles being tragically disorganised likely gives them much more time to get interrupted. (tussock, not registered) --[[Special:Contributions/218.101.96.27|218.101.96.27]] 04:35, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
:::A 9000+ value food stack is not at all uncommom for "regular" lavish meals, though. With just a little focus on high value ingredients and fairly big stacks (5+) it is rather the norm. You need to check the description to make sure there are actually more than 4 base ingredients listed. --[[User:2013|2013]] ([[User talk:2013|talk]]) 01:26, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

==Not using alcohol==
I placed my kitchen next to my alcohol pile, the cook prefers to travel back and forth, across it to get plump helmets for his cooking. I have some prepared meals made with alcohol, but it seems there is something making my cook prefer solid items only. If any one knows whats going on I would like some clarification. I have not forbidden any alcohol for cooking, and I have plenty of alcohol available to cook with.

User talk:Quietust

2013-03-27T18:04:23Z

2013: /* large number of new accounts - Spam? */

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Past discussion are archived here: [[User talk:Quietust/archive|1]]

==Comments==
:Please place new comments at the ''top'' of this section. If you are replying to a message I placed on your user talk page, please place the reply on ''your'' talk page. To add a comment, simply [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Quietust&action=edit&section=2 edit this section] and add a new subsection (with ''three'' equals signs around the title).

===Link template===
I noticed you deleted [[:Template:L]] (in fact, it was over a year ago). I know it's probably unnecessary, but it renders the revision history of old pages practically unreadable (take [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=23a:Bedroom&oldid=123591 this page] for example). It's likely that someone else has pointed it out already and I didn't notice, in which case I apologize. I doubt many people tend to look at past revisions of pages, especially from old versions, but it would be nice to get rid of some of those red links. --[[User:Lethosor|{{tc|#093|L}}{{tc|#084|e}}{{tc|#075|t}}{{tc|#066|h}}{{tc|#057|o}}{{tc|#048|s}}{{tc|#039|o}}{{tc|#02a|r}}]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|{{tc|#20b|t}}{{tc|#509|a}}{{tc|#807|l}}{{tc|#a06|k}}]]) 18:35, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
:I don't see how it's a problem that outdated revisions of pages are unreadable due to a template being removed - the template could have just as easily been '''changed''' to something incompatible and the effect would've been the same. Besides, people shouldn't be looking at outdated revisions of pages anyways, because they're '''outdated''' and likely incorrect. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:14, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
::Yes, I agree that recreating an unused template is probably useless. I only ran across it when I was doing a little research and ran across a revision I didn't really need anyway. Also, since your bot fixed the links in the old namespaces, it really isn't a problem. If I ever need to look at an old revision (and to be honest, I'm not sure why I would either), I could always just view the source instead. --[[User:Lethosor|{{tc|#093|L}}{{tc|#084|e}}{{tc|#075|t}}{{tc|#066|h}}{{tc|#057|o}}{{tc|#048|s}}{{tc|#039|o}}{{tc|#02a|r}}]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|{{tc|#20b|t}}{{tc|#509|a}}{{tc|#807|l}}{{tc|#a06|k}}]]) 17:45, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

===SPAMBOT DELETION===
Hey Quietust. I strongly suspect Hrtrey is a spambot. I reversed the edits made, but I thought I should point it out immediately since it began inserted external links at five minute intervals after the account creation, which seemed atypical.

===SLEEP_PRETENSION ===
I noticed your change to the Noble page recently and want to inquire about the noble logic. I was under the impression that nobles could get two different kinds of upset: their own room is under value, OR another dwarf has a room that exceeds the value that the other dwarf should have.

Do nobles actually compare their own rooms to the other dwarves, or do they just insist that other dwarves not exceed the other dwarves' place in society?
:I recently did some disassembly diving to figure out how that behavior actually worked, and it turns out it's 100% based on the other dwarf's room value compared to the noble's room value. Specifically, it takes the PRECEDENCE of each unit (for non-nobles, this is 30001), takes "(30001 - precedence) / 150" to get an "importance" figure (if the other dwarf's importance is greater than or equal to the noble's, it doesn't care), then it compares the other dwarf's room value to the highest valued room of that type belonging to the noble (it actually compares the room quality rating i.e. "Royal"/"Grand"/"Great"/etc.) and generates a complaint if the other's room is better '''or equal''' to the noble's room. The actual severity of the thought is "(importance_delta - 1) / 15 + (quality delta) + 1" , which corresponds to "put off"/"flustered"/"upset"//.../"traumatized"/"utterly traumatized". --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:19, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

=== Stockpile settings info ===
I'd like to read your oppinion on my planned long-term editing concerning [[User_talk:Emi#Stockpile_setting_info|Stockpile settings information]]. --[[User:Nagidal|Nagidal]] 07:17, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

=== Any dragon fire proof materials? ===
Seeing you have mentioned that the dragonfire will melt dolomite, I guess there is no material safe from dragonfire in DF (except for dragon skin, bones, etc.), so maybe this note should have all material articles. (it is a mild Fun spoiler, though). Or the note about dragonfire it should be missing everywhere, because it is so general. --[[User:Nagidal|Nagidal]] 21:22, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
:Any material with a FIXED_TEMP is immune to dragonfire, which means that [[nether cap]] wood should be safe. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:41, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

===Ban===
Why did you ban my previus account (ilsinopeo)? I do not understand what is wrong in that username--Sinop
:I blocked it for the same reason that I've been blocking dozens of other accounts every day - it looked like a spambot, and it hadn't made a single edit within 2 hours of signup (lots of them have been known to wait several ''days'' before filling their talk page with spam links, hoping to escape detection). Also, why did you create a new account when '''Briess unbanned you about 6 hours ago'''? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 11:22, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
::Ops i did not notice that, my bad--[[User:Ilsinopeo|Ilsinopeo]] 12:38, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

===Binary Patches===
I've noticed some binary patches you've posted around and was wondering exactly what to do with them. I'm guessing something like CFF Explorer? Usually when I hex edit it's with Cheat Engine, so if I screw something up at least it's gone next program run. Wanted to make sure before I did anything drastic. Also, would those edits screw up tools like DFHack and Therapist that depend on exact offsets? [[User:Hesuchia|Hesuchia]] 17:14, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
*You apply them by editing the EXE file itself (while it's not running) with a hex-editor. The Windows patches ones won't affect any existing tools since said tools look at the PE timestamp (which doesn't get changed), and the patches themselves have no effect on any of the offsets. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:32, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

=== Blocked for "Unacceptable username" ===
Why has my account (jimj316) been blocked? Just because it ends in a number?
If you need proof that I'm not a spambot, view the [[DF2012_Talk:Creature_token|Talk page for creature tokens]], where I left a message (before I made an account) about an edit I had made to improve the page.
[[Special:Contributions/212.219.142.161|212.219.142.161]] 09:22, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
:Yes, it was because your username, like many of the spambots, ended with a number. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 11:16, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

=== Potential contributor banned ===

I've got a message from 76.185.119.161 that he would like to contribute to the DF wiki, but his IP is banned. Why is he banned? Do you think you can unban him and see how it goes? --[[User:Nagidal|Nagidal]] 23:00, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

:FYI, that IP address is in the Road Runner IP block in the Dallas, Texas area. It's dynamically allocated to their customers so, unless this is a recent ban, the person who has it now probably isn't the same person who got it banned (assuming it's not part of a block of banned IP addresses). -- [[User:HiEv|Hi]][[User talk:HiEv|Ev]] 00:07, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
::The ban is almost definitely an automatic one placed as a result of banning a suspected spambot - I need to which one it was (the wiki should say "Autoblocked because your IP address has been recently used by 'username'") so I can remove it. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:17, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
::: Please remove it. I think it's unlikely that will cause any trouble. This is what he gets when he tries to create an account:
::::Login error Your IP address is listed as an open proxy in the DNSBL used by Dwarf Fortress Wiki. You cannot create an account (76.185.119.161)
:::--[[User:Nagidal|Nagidal]] 08:44, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
::::There's nothing I can do to fix that one - you'll need to talk to Briess. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 11:16, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
::::Have him try again now. If he still encounters the same issue, he'll have to apply to get his IP address removed from the blocklist at [http://www.spamhaus.org/lookup/] (I removed 3 of the blocklists we were using so it's only spamhaus now) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 07:27, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
::::<s>Just checked, he is listed on [http://www.spamhaus.org/pbl/query/PBL238586] so he'll need to follow those instructions to get delisted. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 07:30, 19 June 2012 (UTC)</s> incorrect, this won't affect wiki signup --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 07:32, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::Thank you guys for looking into it. He said he would sign up soon now. --[[User:Nagidal|Nagidal]] 08:33, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

=== Would My Username Be Rejected? ===
I was reading the [[Special:RecentChanges|Recent Changes]] page, and was rather dismayed by all of the spammer usernames signing up, then being blocked. I do appreciate your hard work. It must feel like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sysiphus Sysiphus' labor] sometimes.

But then it occurred to me... My name looks like a spammer's! If I signed up today, would I be blocked immediately? —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 18:44, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
:Probably not - the recent spammers have been signing up with account names following very specific patterns, and yours doesn't match any of them. While you're here, I thought you might be interested in knowing that I've confirmed a lot of your findings from studying my disassembly of 0.23.130.23a - while lots of things have changed in the past 5 years, lots of other things have stayed exactly the same. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:01, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

===Registration Spam===
Q, methinks the method shown under "Comment Spam defeated at last" on Steve Hanov's Blog stevehanov.ca would save you a lot of work.
*You're talking to the wrong person - tell this to Briess or Emi. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:09, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

===Blocking===
You always beat me to the punch! sadface --23:30, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

===More spammer blocking===
I see that in the last few batches of spammer blocking, [[User talk:KidsShoes|KidsShoes]] and [[User talk:DypeniWang|DypeniWang]], who I reported on May 8, were not included. Is there a better way to make these reports than on [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Spamreport]]? Or should I continue placing a note here if the first report doesn't work? --[[User:Cali|Cali]] 23:12, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
:I've just reported [[User talk:Harry123|Harry123]] and noticed that my previous two reports on [[User talk:Justinakmw7640|Justinakmw7640]] and [[User talk:FixToolbox|FixToolbox]] have fallen through the cracks. --[[User:Cali|Cali]] 01:22, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
::While reporting [[User talk:BrettWCotton7|BrettWCotton7]], I noticed that [[User talk:Lonna44|Lonna44]] was overlooked. --[[User:Cali|Cali]] 22:06, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

===Blocking Vroomvroom1970===
I've reported [[User talk:Vroomvroom1970|Vroomvroom1970]] twice for spam on [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Spamreport]] at or near the same time as two other spamming users. While the other users were blocked ([[User talk:MikePlane1971|MikePlane1971]] and [[User talk:Meetcheese123|Meetcheese123]]), [[User talk:Vroomvroom1970|Vroomvroom1970]] has been overlooked both times, so I thought leaving a message here might work. --[[User:Cali|Cali]] 01:21, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

===Clean up some deleted pages===
Hey Quietust, you seem to be the most active admin around. Could you look into deleting some of the pages currently marked for deletion? Most of them are obsolete, outdated, or otherwise superfluous. Thanks! [[User:Dree12|Dree12]] 00:23, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

===Creaturelookup/0 and Creaturedesc templates===
There seems to be an issue with the [[Template:Creaturelookup/0]] and/or [[Template:Creaturedesc]] and how they interact with the [[Giant badger]] and [[v0.31:Giant badger]] articles. I have no idea how they work so I can't really fix them myself, and I thought you might be able to help since I noticed you created them. --[[User:Reilwin|Reilwin]] 01:28, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
:It's the same problem that affected the [[giant eagle]] - the raw file contains some extended ASCII characters encoded in Latin-1, but the wiki is expecting them to be UTF-8 and is choking on them. It'll be fixed once Emily updates the raws on the wiki servers. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:37, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
::How should they be handled then? Remove the templates so the users can read what's present or leave it in there until the update? --[[User:Reilwin|Reilwin]] 02:15, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

===See Bot request===
Please see my request under bot requests, I believe you may have overlooked it. I would appreciate a response.
--[[User:Reilwin|Reilwin]] 22:42, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

===Gravitates/animal men===
Adjusted size of animal men per what you said, but token on token page doesn't quite say the same thing. Are adult animal men 70k regardless of size of animal?--[[User:Vasiln|Vasiln]] 20:16, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
===DFRawFunctions===
I noticed that [[DF2012:Giant eagle]] was completely blank the other day, and have deduced that the problem lies in the following line used as part of a template on the /raw page:

<nowiki>{{#df_raw:DF2012:creature_birds_new.txt|CREATURE|GIANT_EAGLE|not found}}</nowiki>

I don't know why, but wherever this line is placed, it makes the entire page blank. Template calls on the giant eagle page have been commented out for now, so there's at least something visible on the page. I'm sure you know better than me what might cause this, the only thing I can see out of the ordinary here is some sponsorship text in the .txt right after the entry for giant eagles. Thanks for all you do around here! --[[Special:Contributions/74.105.187.80|74.105.187.80]] 08:05, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
*Read the [[DF2012 talk:Giant eagle|talk page]] - I already know exactly what the problem is and how to fix it. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 12:35, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

===Re:DFRawFunctions===
Pulled. I'll think up a way to make the process a little more automated. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 22:30, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

===Error submiting updates to DF2012:Creatures===
I have some more changes to make to the Creatures page, but when I try submitting them I get a blank page and no change is made to the page. Is this a problem with the server/page too big, or did I trip some anti-spamer protection with my series of edits? [[User:Organised chaos|Organised chaos]] 14:11, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

===Re: Stuff===
Gonna go do it right now. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 21:59, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
===Good job===
Wiki update looks good - thanks for putting in the time to make it happen.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 23:29, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
=== A new list ===
Im a newbie at editing wiki's and what im looking for is a list of objects that cant be placed on the edge of the map (like the trade depot) Can you help me make such a page if one dosent already exist? [[Special:Contributions/97.103.243.208|97.103.243.208]] 18:28, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

=== Frostbite ===
Is it a good idea to report [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=DF2010:Climate&curid=17187&diff=153614&oldid=153613 this] as a bug? [[User:Kogut|Kogut]] 10:22, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
:Wouldn't hurt, though there might already be a more general report for the other assorted problems with organic materials (e.g. body fat melting at 110°F, muscle/organs not taking heat damage until 282°F even though they'd have been thoroughly overcooked by then). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:13, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

===Creature Logic + diagrams===
Thanks for the edits to creature logic. It's probably not obvious, but I made an effort to use a preferred format, and all I found was [[Template:RT]] linked to from the community portal page, so I tried to imitate the example given on that page. If there is a preferred method, maybe someone (lol "someone," although really I'd be happy to do it if I knew enough/was important enough) can make a page and link the community portal to it rather than [[Template:RT]]? Might save you from some future tedium, unless of course you enjoy those kind of edits.

Also curious-- I don't know anything about electronics or computing, but I find myself distinguishing between half and full signals (or full and double signals, if you'd prefer-- opens vs open-closes) all the time. Within the electronics metaphor, are there appropriate words to distinguish between these two kinds of signals? That is, if an edge detector detects an "edge" signal, what kind of signal does it transmit?[[User:Vasiln|Vasiln]] 00:14, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
:There isn't really a difference between the signal types, just how you react to them - a level-sensitive trigger does one thing if the signal is on and another thing if the signal is off, while an edge-sensitive trigger does one thing when the signal '''changes''' from off->on and a different thing when the signal changes from on->off. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrupt#Types_of_Interrupts this article] for more information. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:53, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

===Most annoying bugs===
Just curious what bugs are on the top of your list? I haven't played in several months, waiting for certain bugs to be fixed. I got the military to mostly work (besides all the labors being reset) so that wasn't a big deal. I think all the little bugs added up for me. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:21, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
:I've reported over a hundred bugs on the tracker and 82 of them are still open, some more serious than others. If I had to name the most annoying ones I've reported myself, they'd be: "Missing nobles (dungeon master, tax collector, etc.)", "Swimming FBs don't bother getting out of the water", "Soldiers equip golden salve vials as waterskins", "Caravan pack animals stand on top of floor hatches over ramps", "Building destroyers destroy floor grates over open space", "Caravans don't bring wagons", and "Siege trolls lag the game to hell"; for ones others have reported, "Soldiers don't eat/drink while stationed", "Flowing water pushes items into hammerspace", "Magma kills things WAY too slowly", "Dwarves don't wear new clothes", "Dwarves give water to dwarves already drinking from booze barrels" + "Dwarves leave water buckets lying all over the fortress" + "Dwarves use water buckets when making lye", "Metalsmithing jobs only use one bar", and "Gem items don't get stockpiled". I don't mind the "Humans have no guild representatives", "Elves have no diplomats", and "You can't make crystal glass" bugs, since I've fixed all of them myself. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:22, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
::I know you've reported a lot, which is great. I've only reported 12, 7 still open. Did you figure out a workaround for the missing nobles? I noticed you were doing a lot of research on that area. How does "Soldiers don't eat/drink while stationed" affect you? The dwarfs leaving their food to rot all over? I don't let my military carry ratios. My soldiers do get a bad thought, but the happiness system is pretty out of wack now, so all they have to do is dine in a nice place and they're in heaven! I agree that the buckets coupled to the healthcare is a hassle. That and the transporting of barrels to the depot. Metalsmithing jobs only using one bar is a balancing issue, so it doesn't bother me much. I just reviewed my watch list and others that bother me are "Items are hauled to bins before the bins are installed into the correct stockpile." "Dwarves choose far-away stones instead of nearby ones", "Civilians assigned to burrows while hauling something spam "dropoff inaccessible"", not being able to toggle the usability of obsidian, and "Equipment mismatch error message means nothing". That last one makes setting up a military a bit tough. Those would have to be the most annoying to me. Sometimes I really miss the 40d days. I tried going back, but all the keys are different and it is too frustrating.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 23:56, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
:::The "soldiers don't eat/drink while stationed" bug causes soldiers to just get increasingly hungry/thirsty when on patrol duty, and hungry/thirsty dwarves get skill penalties and are presumably more likely to get injured. I forgot about the "dropoff inaccessible spam" one, though I was afflicted with the "item inaccessible" variant (when the stockpile is inside the burrow but the item isn't), and I also find the economic obsidian bug mildly irritating (though you only need to fix it once in the entire lifetime of your fortress). I don't consider the "hauling bins" and "distant stones" ones to be real bugs, just design flaws (which I'm pretty sure were also present in 40d and probably even 23a). Of course, I've just now remembered another very irritating issue: multiple soldiers being assigned the same piece of equipment, usually a named item. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:07, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
::::That is funny. So many of the "bugs" influence the way I play the game. Because of the bugs, I gave up on burrows being useful. Thus all the bugs with burrows don't bother me. The concept is really powerful, but how to implement it without the bugs hobbling it! I also don't use most fo the military options (like food/water, patrol duties, stations) and instead have train/no train schedules. I find it funny when dwarfs carry around 3 weapons, or the enraged badgers. I agree the distant stones and hauling bins are design flaws, but they are annoying when you notice a bunch of dwarves traverse 80 Z levels to take something to a bin, only to arrive and find the bin has been now moved to 80Z levels down! It would also be nice to be able to save military uniforms as well (like embark profiles). Does the fact that the order of items in the trade item list changes bother you or have you figured out a workaround for that?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 16:25, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

===large number of new accounts - Spam?===
I "determined" ;) that you are an admin and since I'm not sure where to report it: Recent changes implies a large number of new bot-created accounts in the last days. Preparation for a spam avalanche? Should something be done about it? If you're the wrong guy to ask, would you mind forwarding it to the right place? --[[User:2013|2013]] 18:02, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

==Bot Requests==
:If you would like to have a large number of page edits performed by [[User:QuietBot|QuietBot]], then add a note here.

=== DF:2012 Namespace ===
::Hello,

::I believe you might have been the one who created the bot which handled the versioning namespace change. I posted on [[User_talk:Emi|Emi's discussion page]] but have yet to receive a response.
::I'd like to suggest the following change to the bot for any future namespace changes, although this might be futile if the bot lacks the relevant privileges.
::For every article moved to a previous version namespace, create a new article in the new namespace with the <nowiki>{{av}}</nowiki> tag so that users can (1) see that it hasn't been updated and (2) have an easy link to the outdated article so they at least have something too look up. It would also make it easier for normal editors to update the new articles since they've already been created.

::In addition, I'd like to request that the bot create a blank DF2012 namespace article for every v0.31 article which exists which doesn't have a corresponding DF2012 article and add to it the <nowiki>{{av}}</nowiki> template.

::Thanks,

::--[[User:Reilwin|Reilwin]] 08:36, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

User talk:Quietust

2013-03-27T18:02:34Z

2013: /* Most annoying bugs */

{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center" style="background-color:#ead"
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!Instructions for a Pleasant Talk Experience
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|In the interest of keeping discussions in one place:
*If I posted a note on ''your'' talk page with a question or a comment, please post your response on ''your'' talk page. It's easier to keep track of a discussion when it's all in the same place.
*If you wish to post a comment on ''my'' talk page, add it to the ''top'' of the [[#Comments|Comments]] section and begin it with a level 3 header (i.e. "===Subject===", 3 equals signs). As with above, I will keep my replies here on this page.
*If you would like [[User:QuietBot|QuietBot]] to perform a bunch of predictable edits, add a comment to the ''top'' of the [[#Bot Requests|Bot Requests]] section and begin it with a level 3 header. As with normal comments, replies will also be posted solely on ''my'' talk page.
*Do '''''not''''' click the "+" button at the top of the page - if you do, your comment will be added as a new section below the [[#Bot Requests|Bot Requests]] section, which probably isn't what you want to do.
|}

Past discussion are archived here: [[User talk:Quietust/archive|1]]

==Comments==
:Please place new comments at the ''top'' of this section. If you are replying to a message I placed on your user talk page, please place the reply on ''your'' talk page. To add a comment, simply [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Quietust&action=edit&section=2 edit this section] and add a new subsection (with ''three'' equals signs around the title).

===Link template===
I noticed you deleted [[:Template:L]] (in fact, it was over a year ago). I know it's probably unnecessary, but it renders the revision history of old pages practically unreadable (take [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=23a:Bedroom&oldid=123591 this page] for example). It's likely that someone else has pointed it out already and I didn't notice, in which case I apologize. I doubt many people tend to look at past revisions of pages, especially from old versions, but it would be nice to get rid of some of those red links. --[[User:Lethosor|{{tc|#093|L}}{{tc|#084|e}}{{tc|#075|t}}{{tc|#066|h}}{{tc|#057|o}}{{tc|#048|s}}{{tc|#039|o}}{{tc|#02a|r}}]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|{{tc|#20b|t}}{{tc|#509|a}}{{tc|#807|l}}{{tc|#a06|k}}]]) 18:35, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
:I don't see how it's a problem that outdated revisions of pages are unreadable due to a template being removed - the template could have just as easily been '''changed''' to something incompatible and the effect would've been the same. Besides, people shouldn't be looking at outdated revisions of pages anyways, because they're '''outdated''' and likely incorrect. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:14, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
::Yes, I agree that recreating an unused template is probably useless. I only ran across it when I was doing a little research and ran across a revision I didn't really need anyway. Also, since your bot fixed the links in the old namespaces, it really isn't a problem. If I ever need to look at an old revision (and to be honest, I'm not sure why I would either), I could always just view the source instead. --[[User:Lethosor|{{tc|#093|L}}{{tc|#084|e}}{{tc|#075|t}}{{tc|#066|h}}{{tc|#057|o}}{{tc|#048|s}}{{tc|#039|o}}{{tc|#02a|r}}]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|{{tc|#20b|t}}{{tc|#509|a}}{{tc|#807|l}}{{tc|#a06|k}}]]) 17:45, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

===SPAMBOT DELETION===
Hey Quietust. I strongly suspect Hrtrey is a spambot. I reversed the edits made, but I thought I should point it out immediately since it began inserted external links at five minute intervals after the account creation, which seemed atypical.

===SLEEP_PRETENSION ===
I noticed your change to the Noble page recently and want to inquire about the noble logic. I was under the impression that nobles could get two different kinds of upset: their own room is under value, OR another dwarf has a room that exceeds the value that the other dwarf should have.

Do nobles actually compare their own rooms to the other dwarves, or do they just insist that other dwarves not exceed the other dwarves' place in society?
:I recently did some disassembly diving to figure out how that behavior actually worked, and it turns out it's 100% based on the other dwarf's room value compared to the noble's room value. Specifically, it takes the PRECEDENCE of each unit (for non-nobles, this is 30001), takes "(30001 - precedence) / 150" to get an "importance" figure (if the other dwarf's importance is greater than or equal to the noble's, it doesn't care), then it compares the other dwarf's room value to the highest valued room of that type belonging to the noble (it actually compares the room quality rating i.e. "Royal"/"Grand"/"Great"/etc.) and generates a complaint if the other's room is better '''or equal''' to the noble's room. The actual severity of the thought is "(importance_delta - 1) / 15 + (quality delta) + 1" , which corresponds to "put off"/"flustered"/"upset"//.../"traumatized"/"utterly traumatized". --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:19, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

=== Stockpile settings info ===
I'd like to read your oppinion on my planned long-term editing concerning [[User_talk:Emi#Stockpile_setting_info|Stockpile settings information]]. --[[User:Nagidal|Nagidal]] 07:17, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

=== Any dragon fire proof materials? ===
Seeing you have mentioned that the dragonfire will melt dolomite, I guess there is no material safe from dragonfire in DF (except for dragon skin, bones, etc.), so maybe this note should have all material articles. (it is a mild Fun spoiler, though). Or the note about dragonfire it should be missing everywhere, because it is so general. --[[User:Nagidal|Nagidal]] 21:22, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
:Any material with a FIXED_TEMP is immune to dragonfire, which means that [[nether cap]] wood should be safe. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:41, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

===Ban===
Why did you ban my previus account (ilsinopeo)? I do not understand what is wrong in that username--Sinop
:I blocked it for the same reason that I've been blocking dozens of other accounts every day - it looked like a spambot, and it hadn't made a single edit within 2 hours of signup (lots of them have been known to wait several ''days'' before filling their talk page with spam links, hoping to escape detection). Also, why did you create a new account when '''Briess unbanned you about 6 hours ago'''? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 11:22, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
::Ops i did not notice that, my bad--[[User:Ilsinopeo|Ilsinopeo]] 12:38, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

===Binary Patches===
I've noticed some binary patches you've posted around and was wondering exactly what to do with them. I'm guessing something like CFF Explorer? Usually when I hex edit it's with Cheat Engine, so if I screw something up at least it's gone next program run. Wanted to make sure before I did anything drastic. Also, would those edits screw up tools like DFHack and Therapist that depend on exact offsets? [[User:Hesuchia|Hesuchia]] 17:14, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
*You apply them by editing the EXE file itself (while it's not running) with a hex-editor. The Windows patches ones won't affect any existing tools since said tools look at the PE timestamp (which doesn't get changed), and the patches themselves have no effect on any of the offsets. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:32, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

=== Blocked for "Unacceptable username" ===
Why has my account (jimj316) been blocked? Just because it ends in a number?
If you need proof that I'm not a spambot, view the [[DF2012_Talk:Creature_token|Talk page for creature tokens]], where I left a message (before I made an account) about an edit I had made to improve the page.
[[Special:Contributions/212.219.142.161|212.219.142.161]] 09:22, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
:Yes, it was because your username, like many of the spambots, ended with a number. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 11:16, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

=== Potential contributor banned ===

I've got a message from 76.185.119.161 that he would like to contribute to the DF wiki, but his IP is banned. Why is he banned? Do you think you can unban him and see how it goes? --[[User:Nagidal|Nagidal]] 23:00, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

:FYI, that IP address is in the Road Runner IP block in the Dallas, Texas area. It's dynamically allocated to their customers so, unless this is a recent ban, the person who has it now probably isn't the same person who got it banned (assuming it's not part of a block of banned IP addresses). -- [[User:HiEv|Hi]][[User talk:HiEv|Ev]] 00:07, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
::The ban is almost definitely an automatic one placed as a result of banning a suspected spambot - I need to which one it was (the wiki should say "Autoblocked because your IP address has been recently used by 'username'") so I can remove it. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:17, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
::: Please remove it. I think it's unlikely that will cause any trouble. This is what he gets when he tries to create an account:
::::Login error Your IP address is listed as an open proxy in the DNSBL used by Dwarf Fortress Wiki. You cannot create an account (76.185.119.161)
:::--[[User:Nagidal|Nagidal]] 08:44, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
::::There's nothing I can do to fix that one - you'll need to talk to Briess. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 11:16, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
::::Have him try again now. If he still encounters the same issue, he'll have to apply to get his IP address removed from the blocklist at [http://www.spamhaus.org/lookup/] (I removed 3 of the blocklists we were using so it's only spamhaus now) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 07:27, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
::::<s>Just checked, he is listed on [http://www.spamhaus.org/pbl/query/PBL238586] so he'll need to follow those instructions to get delisted. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 07:30, 19 June 2012 (UTC)</s> incorrect, this won't affect wiki signup --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 07:32, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::Thank you guys for looking into it. He said he would sign up soon now. --[[User:Nagidal|Nagidal]] 08:33, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

=== Would My Username Be Rejected? ===
I was reading the [[Special:RecentChanges|Recent Changes]] page, and was rather dismayed by all of the spammer usernames signing up, then being blocked. I do appreciate your hard work. It must feel like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sysiphus Sysiphus' labor] sometimes.

But then it occurred to me... My name looks like a spammer's! If I signed up today, would I be blocked immediately? —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 18:44, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
:Probably not - the recent spammers have been signing up with account names following very specific patterns, and yours doesn't match any of them. While you're here, I thought you might be interested in knowing that I've confirmed a lot of your findings from studying my disassembly of 0.23.130.23a - while lots of things have changed in the past 5 years, lots of other things have stayed exactly the same. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:01, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

===Registration Spam===
Q, methinks the method shown under "Comment Spam defeated at last" on Steve Hanov's Blog stevehanov.ca would save you a lot of work.
*You're talking to the wrong person - tell this to Briess or Emi. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:09, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

===Blocking===
You always beat me to the punch! sadface --23:30, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

===More spammer blocking===
I see that in the last few batches of spammer blocking, [[User talk:KidsShoes|KidsShoes]] and [[User talk:DypeniWang|DypeniWang]], who I reported on May 8, were not included. Is there a better way to make these reports than on [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Spamreport]]? Or should I continue placing a note here if the first report doesn't work? --[[User:Cali|Cali]] 23:12, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
:I've just reported [[User talk:Harry123|Harry123]] and noticed that my previous two reports on [[User talk:Justinakmw7640|Justinakmw7640]] and [[User talk:FixToolbox|FixToolbox]] have fallen through the cracks. --[[User:Cali|Cali]] 01:22, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
::While reporting [[User talk:BrettWCotton7|BrettWCotton7]], I noticed that [[User talk:Lonna44|Lonna44]] was overlooked. --[[User:Cali|Cali]] 22:06, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

===Blocking Vroomvroom1970===
I've reported [[User talk:Vroomvroom1970|Vroomvroom1970]] twice for spam on [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Spamreport]] at or near the same time as two other spamming users. While the other users were blocked ([[User talk:MikePlane1971|MikePlane1971]] and [[User talk:Meetcheese123|Meetcheese123]]), [[User talk:Vroomvroom1970|Vroomvroom1970]] has been overlooked both times, so I thought leaving a message here might work. --[[User:Cali|Cali]] 01:21, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

===Clean up some deleted pages===
Hey Quietust, you seem to be the most active admin around. Could you look into deleting some of the pages currently marked for deletion? Most of them are obsolete, outdated, or otherwise superfluous. Thanks! [[User:Dree12|Dree12]] 00:23, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

===Creaturelookup/0 and Creaturedesc templates===
There seems to be an issue with the [[Template:Creaturelookup/0]] and/or [[Template:Creaturedesc]] and how they interact with the [[Giant badger]] and [[v0.31:Giant badger]] articles. I have no idea how they work so I can't really fix them myself, and I thought you might be able to help since I noticed you created them. --[[User:Reilwin|Reilwin]] 01:28, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
:It's the same problem that affected the [[giant eagle]] - the raw file contains some extended ASCII characters encoded in Latin-1, but the wiki is expecting them to be UTF-8 and is choking on them. It'll be fixed once Emily updates the raws on the wiki servers. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:37, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
::How should they be handled then? Remove the templates so the users can read what's present or leave it in there until the update? --[[User:Reilwin|Reilwin]] 02:15, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

===See Bot request===
Please see my request under bot requests, I believe you may have overlooked it. I would appreciate a response.
--[[User:Reilwin|Reilwin]] 22:42, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

===Gravitates/animal men===
Adjusted size of animal men per what you said, but token on token page doesn't quite say the same thing. Are adult animal men 70k regardless of size of animal?--[[User:Vasiln|Vasiln]] 20:16, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
===DFRawFunctions===
I noticed that [[DF2012:Giant eagle]] was completely blank the other day, and have deduced that the problem lies in the following line used as part of a template on the /raw page:

<nowiki>{{#df_raw:DF2012:creature_birds_new.txt|CREATURE|GIANT_EAGLE|not found}}</nowiki>

I don't know why, but wherever this line is placed, it makes the entire page blank. Template calls on the giant eagle page have been commented out for now, so there's at least something visible on the page. I'm sure you know better than me what might cause this, the only thing I can see out of the ordinary here is some sponsorship text in the .txt right after the entry for giant eagles. Thanks for all you do around here! --[[Special:Contributions/74.105.187.80|74.105.187.80]] 08:05, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
*Read the [[DF2012 talk:Giant eagle|talk page]] - I already know exactly what the problem is and how to fix it. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 12:35, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

===Re:DFRawFunctions===
Pulled. I'll think up a way to make the process a little more automated. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 22:30, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

===Error submiting updates to DF2012:Creatures===
I have some more changes to make to the Creatures page, but when I try submitting them I get a blank page and no change is made to the page. Is this a problem with the server/page too big, or did I trip some anti-spamer protection with my series of edits? [[User:Organised chaos|Organised chaos]] 14:11, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

===Re: Stuff===
Gonna go do it right now. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 21:59, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
===Good job===
Wiki update looks good - thanks for putting in the time to make it happen.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 23:29, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
=== A new list ===
Im a newbie at editing wiki's and what im looking for is a list of objects that cant be placed on the edge of the map (like the trade depot) Can you help me make such a page if one dosent already exist? [[Special:Contributions/97.103.243.208|97.103.243.208]] 18:28, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

=== Frostbite ===
Is it a good idea to report [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=DF2010:Climate&curid=17187&diff=153614&oldid=153613 this] as a bug? [[User:Kogut|Kogut]] 10:22, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
:Wouldn't hurt, though there might already be a more general report for the other assorted problems with organic materials (e.g. body fat melting at 110°F, muscle/organs not taking heat damage until 282°F even though they'd have been thoroughly overcooked by then). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:13, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

===Creature Logic + diagrams===
Thanks for the edits to creature logic. It's probably not obvious, but I made an effort to use a preferred format, and all I found was [[Template:RT]] linked to from the community portal page, so I tried to imitate the example given on that page. If there is a preferred method, maybe someone (lol "someone," although really I'd be happy to do it if I knew enough/was important enough) can make a page and link the community portal to it rather than [[Template:RT]]? Might save you from some future tedium, unless of course you enjoy those kind of edits.

Also curious-- I don't know anything about electronics or computing, but I find myself distinguishing between half and full signals (or full and double signals, if you'd prefer-- opens vs open-closes) all the time. Within the electronics metaphor, are there appropriate words to distinguish between these two kinds of signals? That is, if an edge detector detects an "edge" signal, what kind of signal does it transmit?[[User:Vasiln|Vasiln]] 00:14, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
:There isn't really a difference between the signal types, just how you react to them - a level-sensitive trigger does one thing if the signal is on and another thing if the signal is off, while an edge-sensitive trigger does one thing when the signal '''changes''' from off->on and a different thing when the signal changes from on->off. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrupt#Types_of_Interrupts this article] for more information. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:53, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

===Most annoying bugs===
Just curious what bugs are on the top of your list? I haven't played in several months, waiting for certain bugs to be fixed. I got the military to mostly work (besides all the labors being reset) so that wasn't a big deal. I think all the little bugs added up for me. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:21, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
:I've reported over a hundred bugs on the tracker and 82 of them are still open, some more serious than others. If I had to name the most annoying ones I've reported myself, they'd be: "Missing nobles (dungeon master, tax collector, etc.)", "Swimming FBs don't bother getting out of the water", "Soldiers equip golden salve vials as waterskins", "Caravan pack animals stand on top of floor hatches over ramps", "Building destroyers destroy floor grates over open space", "Caravans don't bring wagons", and "Siege trolls lag the game to hell"; for ones others have reported, "Soldiers don't eat/drink while stationed", "Flowing water pushes items into hammerspace", "Magma kills things WAY too slowly", "Dwarves don't wear new clothes", "Dwarves give water to dwarves already drinking from booze barrels" + "Dwarves leave water buckets lying all over the fortress" + "Dwarves use water buckets when making lye", "Metalsmithing jobs only use one bar", and "Gem items don't get stockpiled". I don't mind the "Humans have no guild representatives", "Elves have no diplomats", and "You can't make crystal glass" bugs, since I've fixed all of them myself. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:22, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
::I know you've reported a lot, which is great. I've only reported 12, 7 still open. Did you figure out a workaround for the missing nobles? I noticed you were doing a lot of research on that area. How does "Soldiers don't eat/drink while stationed" affect you? The dwarfs leaving their food to rot all over? I don't let my military carry ratios. My soldiers do get a bad thought, but the happiness system is pretty out of wack now, so all they have to do is dine in a nice place and they're in heaven! I agree that the buckets coupled to the healthcare is a hassle. That and the transporting of barrels to the depot. Metalsmithing jobs only using one bar is a balancing issue, so it doesn't bother me much. I just reviewed my watch list and others that bother me are "Items are hauled to bins before the bins are installed into the correct stockpile." "Dwarves choose far-away stones instead of nearby ones", "Civilians assigned to burrows while hauling something spam "dropoff inaccessible"", not being able to toggle the usability of obsidian, and "Equipment mismatch error message means nothing". That last one makes setting up a military a bit tough. Those would have to be the most annoying to me. Sometimes I really miss the 40d days. I tried going back, but all the keys are different and it is too frustrating.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 23:56, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
:::The "soldiers don't eat/drink while stationed" bug causes soldiers to just get increasingly hungry/thirsty when on patrol duty, and hungry/thirsty dwarves get skill penalties and are presumably more likely to get injured. I forgot about the "dropoff inaccessible spam" one, though I was afflicted with the "item inaccessible" variant (when the stockpile is inside the burrow but the item isn't), and I also find the economic obsidian bug mildly irritating (though you only need to fix it once in the entire lifetime of your fortress). I don't consider the "hauling bins" and "distant stones" ones to be real bugs, just design flaws (which I'm pretty sure were also present in 40d and probably even 23a). Of course, I've just now remembered another very irritating issue: multiple soldiers being assigned the same piece of equipment, usually a named item. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:07, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
::::That is funny. So many of the "bugs" influence the way I play the game. Because of the bugs, I gave up on burrows being useful. Thus all the bugs with burrows don't bother me. The concept is really powerful, but how to implement it without the bugs hobbling it! I also don't use most fo the military options (like food/water, patrol duties, stations) and instead have train/no train schedules. I find it funny when dwarfs carry around 3 weapons, or the enraged badgers. I agree the distant stones and hauling bins are design flaws, but they are annoying when you notice a bunch of dwarves traverse 80 Z levels to take something to a bin, only to arrive and find the bin has been now moved to 80Z levels down! It would also be nice to be able to save military uniforms as well (like embark profiles). Does the fact that the order of items in the trade item list changes bother you or have you figured out a workaround for that?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 16:25, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

===large number of new accounts - Spam?===
I "determined" ;) that you are an admin and since I'm not sure where to report it: Recent changes implies a large number of new bot-created accounts in the last days. Preparation for a spam avalanche? Should something be done about it? --[[User:2013|2013]] 18:02, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

==Bot Requests==
:If you would like to have a large number of page edits performed by [[User:QuietBot|QuietBot]], then add a note here.

=== DF:2012 Namespace ===
::Hello,

::I believe you might have been the one who created the bot which handled the versioning namespace change. I posted on [[User_talk:Emi|Emi's discussion page]] but have yet to receive a response.
::I'd like to suggest the following change to the bot for any future namespace changes, although this might be futile if the bot lacks the relevant privileges.
::For every article moved to a previous version namespace, create a new article in the new namespace with the <nowiki>{{av}}</nowiki> tag so that users can (1) see that it hasn't been updated and (2) have an easy link to the outdated article so they at least have something too look up. It would also make it easier for normal editors to update the new articles since they've already been created.

::In addition, I'd like to request that the bot create a blank DF2012 namespace article for every v0.31 article which exists which doesn't have a corresponding DF2012 article and add to it the <nowiki>{{av}}</nowiki> template.

::Thanks,

::--[[User:Reilwin|Reilwin]] 08:36, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

v0.34:Floor

2013-03-27T03:51:34Z

2013: Only constructed floors can be removed with {{k|d}}-{{k|n}} - needs explanation how to remove "natural" floors

{{av}}
{{Quality|Fine}}

A '''floor''' is any [[map tile]] that a [[creature]] can walk upon. A floor is formed:
# naturally, as in the ground like [[grass]], [[soil]], or [[stone]],
# by constructing [[wall]]s, thereby creating a floor on the level above, or
# by [[construction|constructing floors]].

Though it is possible to create a floor with an empty tile below it, all wall tiles necessarily have a floor above them.

Only constructed floors can be removed with {{k|d}}-{{k|n}}.

==Removing floors safely==
[[Constructions#Destruction|Removing]] floors can cause [[cave-in]]s if done incorrectly. This often leads to [[fun]] if the floor happens to be overhanging the [[dining hall]] or other central area.

Floors should '''always''' be removed starting at the furthest locations from the support(s) and moving in.

===Examples===
Key:
{|
|-
|{{RT|+|red}}||Support - either a wall below or a staircase
|-
|{{RT|+|#ccc}}||Unsupported floor, unable to be safely removed
|-
|{{RT|+|#0f0}}||Floor able to be safely removed
|-
|{{RT|.|#ccc}}||Previous site of (removed) floor
|}

====3x3 floor, supported in middle====
This example usually has a staircase in the middle supporting it, instead of a wall below (in that case, there would need to be another access point for dwarves to remove the floor, which would make this example much more complicated).
{{diagram|
+++
+[#f00]++
+++
}}
=====Removing corners first=====
{{ltr steps|
{{diagram|
[#0f0]++[#0f0]+
+[#f00]++
[#0f0]++[#0f0]+
}}|
{{diagram|
.[#0f0]+.
[#0f0]+[#f00]+[#0f0]+
.[#0f0]+.
}}|
{{diagram|
...
.[#f00]+.
...
}}}}

Floors are '''not''' supported diagonally, so removing all floor tiles [[orthogonal]] to another floor will result in a [[cave-in]].

=====Leaving supports for all corner floors=====
{{ltr steps|
{{diagram|
[#0f0]++[#0f0]+
[#0f0]+[#f00]+[#0f0]+
[#0f0]++[#0f0]+
}}|
{{diagram|
.[#0f0]+.
.[#f00]+.
.[#0f0]+.
}}|
{{diagram|
...
.[#f00]+.
...
}}}}
Dwarves can stand on the red or grey tiles to remove floors. Dwarves will not remove floors that another dwarf is standing on, so if a dwarf decides to stand on a green floor, the removal job could be cancelled.

{{buildings}}