Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.31 Talk:Item value

2011-03-10T11:06:14Z

Greep: /* HAH! Base item value formula discovered */

==Clothing value==
Clothing value seems to be almost random, apparently calculated based on the actual properties of the item. For example, a shirt has value 22 and a tunic has value 16, while the only actual difference between them is that a shirt has UBSTEP:MAX and LBSTEP:0 while a tunic has UBSTEP:0 and LBSTEP:1. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:37, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

:I think the intrinsic value for different items got reworked along with the weight calculations. We will need original research to correlate the value calculations I am afraid. What were you examples made of and what was there anything else interesting about them? Such as quality or decorations? --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 04:39, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

== Trade multiplier ==

Is it ( ((base item cost X material multiplier) + decoration) X trade multiplier )

or just ( (trade multiplier X base item cost X material multiplier) + decorations )

iow, if the Outpost Liason Officer offers you 200% on tables, does encrusting the tables effectively double the price of the gems, or just the table?

:It seems to me that the answer is yes, the decoration value is also multiplied. I had (thanks to an [[unfortunate accident]] involving traders) a diamond-encrusted poor metal weapon with ~200% markup, reporting a "basic value" of 3k+, and the trader was offering me 6k+. However I can't be completely sure, since the reported "basic value" of an item seems to only have a loose relationship with the actual trade value. At one point I was offered a good (180-ish or so) markup on bodywear, so I spent the year whipping up and decorating a load of cloaks and robes, etc. The actual trade values were up to 3 or 4 times the reported "basic value"; other no-premium (mainly cloth, IIRC?) items had lesser values, but still well over the "basic values". [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 00:16, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== Bones, etc. ==
Do different animals' or creatures' bones carry different values for crafts and decorations, or are they all the same value? Also, what is that value?
:Different. See the "Animals" part of the "Material multipliers" section; a beak dog (x2) earring is worth twice what a puppy bone earring of identical quality is worth. More dangerous critters, bigger multipliers, generally. (However, as far as I have seen, an earring made from the bones of the forgotten beast which just chewed up half your dwarves gets no bonus - it's worth no more than the puppy bone earring.. presumably because FBs are (now) auto-generated, so its level of danger/deadliness is harder to evaluate up-front) [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 00:16, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== HAH! Base item value formula discovered ==

Well this is rather funny. Someone on the forums just noticed that base item values is a function of Item size. Specifically, (size rounded down to nearest 50)/25 + 2. So a battle axe size 800 is (800)/25 + 2 = 34. The exceptions being trap components which seem to have bugged out. This size formula also accounts for the odd differences in clothing values. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 10:48, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
:Hmm this actually is not correct nevermind for all items nevermind. However, (size rounded down to nearest 50)/25 + 2 works consistently for changing an axe's size in the raws. At 200 size a battle axe is value'd at 10 e.g. Other items are also size dependent but it looks like they have different formulas based on their size. The importance of this is of course that item values are now completely moddable. And likely we are only missing one variable for the formula [[User:Greep|Greep]] 10:55, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Item value

2011-03-10T10:55:35Z

Greep: /* HAH! Base item value formula discovered */

v0.31 Talk:Item value

2011-03-10T10:55:14Z

Greep: /* HAH! Base item value formula discovered */

==Clothing value==
Clothing value seems to be almost random, apparently calculated based on the actual properties of the item. For example, a shirt has value 22 and a tunic has value 16, while the only actual difference between them is that a shirt has UBSTEP:MAX and LBSTEP:0 while a tunic has UBSTEP:0 and LBSTEP:1. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:37, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

:I think the intrinsic value for different items got reworked along with the weight calculations. We will need original research to correlate the value calculations I am afraid. What were you examples made of and what was there anything else interesting about them? Such as quality or decorations? --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 04:39, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

== Trade multiplier ==

Is it ( ((base item cost X material multiplier) + decoration) X trade multiplier )

or just ( (trade multiplier X base item cost X material multiplier) + decorations )

iow, if the Outpost Liason Officer offers you 200% on tables, does encrusting the tables effectively double the price of the gems, or just the table?

:It seems to me that the answer is yes, the decoration value is also multiplied. I had (thanks to an [[unfortunate accident]] involving traders) a diamond-encrusted poor metal weapon with ~200% markup, reporting a "basic value" of 3k+, and the trader was offering me 6k+. However I can't be completely sure, since the reported "basic value" of an item seems to only have a loose relationship with the actual trade value. At one point I was offered a good (180-ish or so) markup on bodywear, so I spent the year whipping up and decorating a load of cloaks and robes, etc. The actual trade values were up to 3 or 4 times the reported "basic value"; other no-premium (mainly cloth, IIRC?) items had lesser values, but still well over the "basic values". [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 00:16, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== Bones, etc. ==
Do different animals' or creatures' bones carry different values for crafts and decorations, or are they all the same value? Also, what is that value?
:Different. See the "Animals" part of the "Material multipliers" section; a beak dog (x2) earring is worth twice what a puppy bone earring of identical quality is worth. More dangerous critters, bigger multipliers, generally. (However, as far as I have seen, an earring made from the bones of the forgotten beast which just chewed up half your dwarves gets no bonus - it's worth no more than the puppy bone earring.. presumably because FBs are (now) auto-generated, so its level of danger/deadliness is harder to evaluate up-front) [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 00:16, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== HAH! Base item value formula discovered ==

Well this is rather funny. Someone on the forums just noticed that base item values is a function of Item size. Specifically, (size rounded down to nearest 50)/25 + 2. So a battle axe size 800 is (800)/25 + 2 = 34. The exceptions being trap components which seem to have bugged out. This size formula also accounts for the odd differences in clothing values. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 10:48, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
:Hmm this actually is not correct nevermind for all items nevermind. However, (size rounded down to nearest 50)/25 + 2 works consistently for changing an axe's size in the raws. At 200 size a battle axe is value'd at 10 e.g. Other items are also size dependent but it looks lik they have different formulas. The importance of this is of course that item values are now completely moddable. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 10:55, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Item value

2011-03-10T10:50:21Z

Greep: /* Bones, etc. */

v0.31 Talk:Item value

2011-03-10T10:50:10Z

Greep: /* Bones, etc. */

==Clothing value==
Clothing value seems to be almost random, apparently calculated based on the actual properties of the item. For example, a shirt has value 22 and a tunic has value 16, while the only actual difference between them is that a shirt has UBSTEP:MAX and LBSTEP:0 while a tunic has UBSTEP:0 and LBSTEP:1. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:37, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

:I think the intrinsic value for different items got reworked along with the weight calculations. We will need original research to correlate the value calculations I am afraid. What were you examples made of and what was there anything else interesting about them? Such as quality or decorations? --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 04:39, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

== Trade multiplier ==

Is it ( ((base item cost X material multiplier) + decoration) X trade multiplier )

or just ( (trade multiplier X base item cost X material multiplier) + decorations )

iow, if the Outpost Liason Officer offers you 200% on tables, does encrusting the tables effectively double the price of the gems, or just the table?

:It seems to me that the answer is yes, the decoration value is also multiplied. I had (thanks to an [[unfortunate accident]] involving traders) a diamond-encrusted poor metal weapon with ~200% markup, reporting a "basic value" of 3k+, and the trader was offering me 6k+. However I can't be completely sure, since the reported "basic value" of an item seems to only have a loose relationship with the actual trade value. At one point I was offered a good (180-ish or so) markup on bodywear, so I spent the year whipping up and decorating a load of cloaks and robes, etc. The actual trade values were up to 3 or 4 times the reported "basic value"; other no-premium (mainly cloth, IIRC?) items had lesser values, but still well over the "basic values". [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 00:16, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== Bones, etc. ==
Do different animals' or creatures' bones carry different values for crafts and decorations, or are they all the same value? Also, what is that value?
:Different. See the "Animals" part of the "Material multipliers" section; a beak dog (x2) earring is worth twice what a puppy bone earring of identical quality is worth. More dangerous critters, bigger multipliers, generally. (However, as far as I have seen, an earring made from the bones of the forgotten beast which just chewed up half your dwarves gets no bonus - it's worth no more than the puppy bone earring.. presumably because FBs are (now) auto-generated, so its level of danger/deadliness is harder to evaluate up-front) [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 00:16, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
::Although they follow a similar weight based formula I think. More research would be needed for those. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 10:50, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

== HAH! Base item value formula discovered ==

Well this is rather funny. Someone on the forums just noticed that base item values is a function of Item size. Specifically, (size rounded down to nearest 50)/25 + 2. So a battle axe size 800 is (800)/25 + 2 = 34. The exceptions being trap components which seem to have bugged out. This size formula also accounts for the odd differences in clothing values. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 10:48, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Item value

2011-03-10T10:48:25Z

Greep: /* HAH! Base item value formula discovered */ new section

v0.31 Talk:Underworld

2011-02-23T23:21:14Z

Greep: /* Hell can be a good thing in DF */

== FPS ==
I have opened HFS by carving fortification and walling the thing back with raw adamantine. The fortress have been saved, but FPS decreased and that the fortress became unpleasant to play: it fell from 30+ to 13. Does anyone experience the same?

Yes, it's very common. It's most likely because the demons will continue to try and path to the surface. [[User:Naros|Naros]] 14:16, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

== LOLSPOILER ==
DF2010:Hell
(Redirected from DF2010:Hidden Fun Stuff)

{ { spoiler } }

WTF is the point of a spoiler tag concealing the contents of the clowncar '''IF YOU NAME THE DAMN ARTICLE ''"HELL"'''''
==HFS -> Hell==

Just to be clear: HFS ''is'' Hidden Fun Stuff - in the last version HFS was the [[40d:Eerie glowing pit|eerie glowing pits]], but in this version it's Hell, so that's what we're officially referring to it as (though the nickname of HFS will still stand). I imagine Demonic Fortresses will be moved to their own page eventually but for now it'd be too stubby. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 00:35, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, upon realizing that curious structures are demonic fortresses, I merged their info into the Demonic Fortress page. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 01:15, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

== Article Title ==

Should the article be renamed? The game refers to the demons as denizens of the Underworld unless I'm mistaken. Using tangentially related Judeo-Christian terminology for something that already has an official name seems unnecessary. --[[User:Pilsu|Pilsu]] 8:35, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
:'''Hell''' is an English word that is not specific to any one religion, or any collection of religions. You can have Christian hells, Buddhist hells, Marriage hells, Voodoo hells, any underworld abode of the damned can be described by the word hell. -- [[User:Ancient History|Ancient History]] 15:12, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
::

== Demon populations ==

From my limited observations the demon population is infinite, but beyond the initial dozens (or hundreds?) that you get when you first breach, the rest are merely migrants just as you'd see with more mundane creatures on the surface or passing through caverns. These migrants are probably "aggressive" - seeking dwarves if they have a path - but unless you've built a path from the pillar to hell's surface, it can mean your fort is entirely safe if all your demon types are "terrestrial" and cannot fly. Safe after dealing with the initial invasion of course - the initial demon always seem to crawl up the pillar even if they cannot normally fly. [[User:Niveras|Niveras]] 16:29, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

:Are there any success stories of people actually being able to fight of the initial invasion? In my experience, striking hell means almost immediate game over.

::I managed to stop the demon hordes of hell once! Ok, technically I messed up -- I accidentally breached the magma sea a few frames after I accidentally opened hell. Long story short, flooding hell with magma does not kill the demons, but is an effective enough method of stopping them from coming up. Also an effective method of killing FPS. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 13:46, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I observe the same thing. We should probably change the article text so it's less misleading. Currently, it's worded as if the demon attacks never end. [[User:Umiman|Umiman]] 04:29, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

==Clearly not hell==
There is no way that this is hell. Hell is an unending tide of nobles that make constant demands, which can never die. --[[Special:Contributions/98.215.50.77|98.215.50.77]] 05:47, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

== Win? ==

So i found a adamantine pillar of 6 z levels tall, started digging the highest level (of course), channeled a part of it and as soon as the game paused, announcing my discovery of hell, I listed "raw adamantine" as non economic, and then using a second miner with masonry skills, I built a adamantine floor covering the hole and sealed the demons and HFS.

That's a good strategy to avoid fun.--[[Special:Contributions/200.82.91.216|200.82.91.216]] 23:19, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

== Volcano Hell? ==

Sometimes when embarking in an area with a Volcano, the volcano itself seems to reach all the way down into hell, triggering the initial demons and allowing me to see a good portion of Hell even before unpausing to start out. Unfortunately my framerate got killed before I had a chance for the demons to reach me, but should it be mentioned that Volcanoes can pierce into hell?--[[User:Twilightdusk|Twilightdusk]] 03:44, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

I can confirm this, however, I believe it is a bug. Still, it is worth a mention as I have seen it, you have seen it, and I know people on the forums have seen it. Happens with magma tubes, as well.[[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 22:56, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Hell can be a good thing in DF ==

It's extremely easy to wall or floor off. Since it just revealed a massive vein of over 100 adamantine, it's more of a good thing than a bad thing. --[[Special:Contributions/41.0.10.9|41.0.10.9]] 07:17, 12 February 2011 (UTC) (Ruan942)
:Except your FPS goes to hell when you wall it off :P [[User:Greep|Greep]] 23:21, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

40d Talk:Construction

2010-05-25T23:03:03Z

Greep: /* Construction and Deconstruction Speed */

== contrast with features carved from native stone? ==

How are constructions different from the walls and other features carved out from the designation menu? Are they more vulnerable to being knocked over by trolls or tantruming axedwarves?
--[[User:Keturn|Keturn]] 00:30, 8 November 2007 (EST)
:They collapse into their base materials when they cave in. The method for removing them is disassembly (any dwarf can do this) instead of mining. I dont know about trolls and tantrums - instinct says no to that. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:40, 8 November 2007 (EST)

== Dwarven Stupidity ==

How do i get my dwarfs to not stand ontop of the floor they are deconstructing? They always fall right after they remove a floor and I always have to build a floor directly below them so they dont injure themselfs. [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 23:15, 30 November 2007 (EST)

:Build a bridge on the area to "catch" them, or build a statue or floodgate on the floor so that they can't stand on it. They can still remove the floor while standing to the side. The statue or whatever will still fall, though. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:29, 2 December 2007 (EST)

== Building a tower ==

I want to build a tower with a 3x3 floor on the top level for a siege engine.

What I thought was: <nowiki>
###</nowiki> <nowiki>
#.#</nowiki> <nowiki>
###<
</nowiki>
where # is a wall
. is a gap
< is a stair of the right direction to get from the lower to the upper level.

What do I do about the . in the middle to be able to build there?
I know that when I build a wall I automatically get a floor, but how do I build a floor in mid-air?

Thanks,[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:16, 3 February 2008 (EST)

:Wall-created floors are on the next level up. Just build a floor above the gap and it'll be fine... In my executions of the catapult tower idea, the stairs are placed so that access is still possible during a siege. (i.e. underground access and a platform at least 3x5 (typically expanded to 3x7 to get 2 for one) so that the stairs can come between the walls and there still being room for the catapult.) That should help ya, even if it's not exactly what you're looking for. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 08:45, 3 February 2008 (EST)

== Removal behaviour ==
The only part of the construction removal behaviour I haven't verified is how previously engraved floors are handled. -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 00:50, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

== Contrasting Costs ==

Can someone include a blurb concerning the high contrast in costs between building floors and bridges?

It really seems to be a bug at this point.

--[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 12:35, 18 May 2008 (EDT)

Well, a bridge is only meant for dwarves and wagons to walk over, you can't build a wall or floor hanging on a bridge, you can't build rooms on your bridge. i've quite some experience in this because i like making above ground fortresses.

~Scruga~

== Children Removing Constructions ==

My children keep trying to remove constructions, which is fine except for the fact that they take like eight times as long as a miner to do it. Is there any way to forbid them? [[User:Lymojo|Lymojo]] 18:29, 7 May 2009 (UTC)Lymojo

I think it's hardcoded. I use Dwarf Manager to make my nobles work liek real dwarves, but I found that children have no jobs assigned, even though they do work. [[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 01:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

== Build Direction ==

Can we put in a section about the direction from which dwarves will build constructions?

The general rule seems as though they prefer working from the the square above or the square to the left when building walls, but I've seen them break this rule sometimes. There must be some logic to it, does anyone know?

==Material construction cost==
I'm trying to see if I can gold-plate my fortress (don't ask) and I've been turning my gold ore/nuggets/whatever it's called into bars. When I go into the build menu to make walls or floors and try and choose "gold bars" as the material used, it says I apparently have 8 when I've checked in my stocks menu and have a little over 100. I checked to make sure they hadn't been dumped or forbidden, so I assume it's not a bug or something, and that it just takes more bars to construct a wall than stone blocks, which makes sense. (10 bars for 1 wall or floor section?) Can anyone else confirm this? And if so, I'd imagine for cost-effectiveness I'll have to start making Native Gold Blocks and doing it that way. It's something to consider, too, if anyone wants to start making iron or bronze or whatever walls out of a metal that doesn't come in a block form.[[User:Gnavin|Gnavin]] 09:55, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
*Are you sure you're reading the item count and not the distance? The item count displayed in the Build menu maxes out at 99. Exactly one "bars" is required in order to build a wall or floor. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:30, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
**I believe that materials already used in a construction appear in the Stocks menu. I built a room above-ground out of iron once, and my Stocks menu showed about 100 iron bars but I got a "Needs iron bars" cancellation message when I tried to make some plate mail. --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 09:17, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
***This is actually why I build my metal megaconstructions out of blocks rather than bars - makes it easier to see how much I've actually got left. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 12:52, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

== Construction and Deconstruction Speed ==

I've done a few tests with constructing walls using 3 variables - the building material (rough stone versus stone blocks), skill level (Masonry at no-skill versus Legendary+5), and Agility (non-agile versus Perfectly Agile) - and the results appear to be as follows: construction speed depends '''only''' on Agility, completing in 110-111 ticks for zero agility and in 60-64 ticks for Perfectly Agile. Deconstruction speed, however, seems to vary based on both agility and skill level based on the material used - the same Perfectly Agile Legendary Mason deconstructed a wall in 6 seconds, the Perfectly Agile Proficient Miner (no masonry skill) managed it in 9, the non-agile Legendary Mason took about 13 seconds, and the non-agile Miner took about 16 seconds. Overall, it seems that agility has a greater impact on deconstruction speed than skill, but skill does still appear to have an effect, at least in my sample population (a better test would be to do all of the tests with the exact same dwarf, using Companion to alter stats in between each test). Strangely, a nearby non-agile Peasant managed 13 seconds, so it's possible that personality traits may also be coming into play (though I don't see any that ought to be having an effect). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:46, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
:About that, there are different levels of perfectly agile IIRC, perfectly agile is just how 5+ agility level is simply represented. Perhaps it is really just agility only and your miner had less? Or perhaps it is almost entirely skill but your miner had much more agiity? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 23:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Cook

2010-05-24T01:30:03Z

Greep: /* Succesful booze cooking? */

==No Seeds==
In the previous version, cooking left no seeds for re-planting. Can this be verified for this version? --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 10:20, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
: I cooked an easy meal out of a wild strawberry and a prickle berry, and it produced no seed. [[User:Wccarrington|Wccarrington]] 22:09, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

==Lavish Meal==
In one fortress recently, it looked like I had a cook put more than four components into a lavish meal. I haven't seen it happen again (since I haven't been cooking lavish meals), so I didn't add it to the page- but that might be something worth looking for / verifying. --[[User:Vaniver|Vaniver]] 13:30, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
:Chances are that you've unintentionally encountered an old bug/exploit, which is explained in http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=49177.0 - whether that bug still exists in the new version, I don't know, but it was definitely in 40d. --[[User:Pushy|Pushy]] 11:18, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
::I think that bug has been fixed in DF2010. I attempted to use it to make a super artifact, but it just used the 3 items that the dwarf was after. So i think Vaniver encountered that bug in the previous version.
::I can also confirm that lavish meals use 4 items.
::[[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 00:56, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

==Tantrum==
my cook keeps throwing tantrums when his masterpiece meals are eaten, i presume. he's generally not very happy (my fort is still in the early stages, so not much is working yet), but if one of his masterwork meals are eaten, it sends him over the edge. it also says in his profile that "he has suffered the travesty of art defacement" - is this a bug? has anyone else noticed it? is it vermin eating the food, as opposed to dwarves?
note: i've not actually SEEN anyone pick up one of his masterwork meals, eat it, then see the chef throw a tantrum (i've not been looking, tbh).. but i've had the 'masterwork' announcement from my cook, and then TWO tantrums in the 3 dwarven-days since. he has never had any other serious duties (only hauling labours).
help please --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 13:07, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
: *EDIT* - on the 40d 'Item quality' wiki it states; "Masterpiece meals can be eaten safely, although allowing the food to rot will provoke the same response as theft or destruction.", which was a very likely outcome, but my cook has now gone 'stark raving mad' so i cant test any further for a while. could someone verify that's still the set-up? and perhaps put a foot-note on the page, too? --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 23:24, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

== Succesful booze cooking? ==

I looked at one of my alcohol roasts... turns out all 4 ingredients ''were'' alcohol (longland beer, whip vine, longland beer, whip vine). [[User:Greep|Greep]] 21:07, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
: Edit: I have failed to ever screw up an all booze cooking. Added a note that it appears to be fixed. [[Special:Contributions/71.134.230.146|71.134.230.146]] 23:58, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Edit: okay it happened now. For whatever reason, the kitchen screen on status had TWO dwarven wines listed. The bug happened when I bought some wine from a trader, although this previously had not caused a problem. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 23:53, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Okay this is a really weird bug. It occurs only sometimes, but when it does occur, it always happens. Furthermore, dwarves will not react to these puddles at all, not dumping them or anything. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:30, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Cook

2010-05-24T00:33:16Z

Greep: /* 'Bugged' Boozecooking */

{{av}}{{Quality|Exceptional}}
{{Skill
| color = #880
| skill = Cook
| profession = {{L|Farmer}}
| job name = Cooking
| workshop = {{L|Kitchen}}
| tasks =
* Prepare Easy Meal
* Prepare Fine Meal
* Prepare Lavish Meal
* Render Fat

}}
A '''Cook''' is a dwarf whose highest skill is in cooking. Cooks will prepare meals at the {{L|kitchen}} workshop using ingredients available in your fortress. They will also render {{L|fat}} into {{L|tallow}} at the kitchen. Both of these fall under the Cooking labor.

There are three kinds of meals- easy, fine, and lavish. An easy meal uses two components; a fine meal three components, and a lavish meal four components. The result is a stack of prepared food with the same size as the sum of the stack sizes of its components. Prepared meals can rot, but do so much more slowly than raw food, especially [[meat]].

Although some kinds of [[food]] can be eaten raw, other food resources are ingredients which are only edible when cooked into a meal. Cooking thus increases the number of food sources available to your fortress. Eating high quality prepared food also gives your dwarves happy [[thought]]s; a dwarf will also receive a happy thought if the meal contains one of their favorite foods. It is not precisely known how a cook's skill and the quality of ingredients affect the happiness generated by a meal, but as a general rule there's no such thing as "too good".

== Recipes ==
See also [[DF2010:Crop|List of Crops]] for ingredients.

Meals are prepared with a primary ingredient and 1~3 other ingredients. The primary ingredient determines what the meal will be called, and the remaining ingredients appear to be a random assortment of whatever is on hand.

Easy meals require two ingredients, and will be named "{last ingredient} biscuit". 
Fine meals require three ingredients, and will be named "{last ingredient} stew". 
Lavish meals require four ingredients, and will be named "{last ingredient} roast".

This table begins to show the interaction between preparation quality, and ingredient quality. The 'Value' column in the table is the total value of the stack divided by the number of portions in the stack, so that it is per portion.
{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"
|-
! Preparation
! Recipe
! Type
! Ingredients
! Value
|-
|(normal)
|Plump Helmet
|Biscuits
|2x minced Plump Helmet
|18
|-
|Well-Prepared
|Plump Helmet
|Biscuits
|2x minced Plump Helmet
|28
|-
|Well-Prepared
|Plump Helmet
|Biscuits
|1x minced Plump Helmet, 1x well-minced Plump Helmet
|32
|-
|Well-Prepared
|Plump Helmet
|Biscuits
|2x well-minced Plump Helmet
|36
|-
|Well-Prepared
|Plump Helmet
|Biscuits
|1x well-minced Plump Helmet, 1x finely minced Plump Helmet
|40
|}

=='Bugged' Boozecooking==
When you cook only alcohol (or other liquid item - dwarven syrup has the same problem), the cook decides to pull the alcohol out of the barrels, cluttering the kitchen, but then doesn't make a purely alcohol meal, leaving units of alcohol which turn into a pool if you remove the kitchen. Your cook will merrily proceed at starting meals he can't finish, ruining your alcohol and grinding your kitchen to a halt.

This only occurs sometimes. {{v|0.31.03}}

{{skills}}

v0.31:Cook

2010-05-24T00:32:30Z

Greep: /* 'Bugged' Boozecooking */

v0.31 Talk:Cook

2010-05-23T23:53:30Z

Greep: /* Succesful booze cooking? */

v0.31 Talk:Cook

2010-05-23T23:53:21Z

Greep: /* Succesful booze cooking? */

==No Seeds==
In the previous version, cooking left no seeds for re-planting. Can this be verified for this version? --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 10:20, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
: I cooked an easy meal out of a wild strawberry and a prickle berry, and it produced no seed. [[User:Wccarrington|Wccarrington]] 22:09, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

==Lavish Meal==
In one fortress recently, it looked like I had a cook put more than four components into a lavish meal. I haven't seen it happen again (since I haven't been cooking lavish meals), so I didn't add it to the page- but that might be something worth looking for / verifying. --[[User:Vaniver|Vaniver]] 13:30, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
:Chances are that you've unintentionally encountered an old bug/exploit, which is explained in http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=49177.0 - whether that bug still exists in the new version, I don't know, but it was definitely in 40d. --[[User:Pushy|Pushy]] 11:18, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
::I think that bug has been fixed in DF2010. I attempted to use it to make a super artifact, but it just used the 3 items that the dwarf was after. So i think Vaniver encountered that bug in the previous version.
::I can also confirm that lavish meals use 4 items.
::[[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 00:56, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

==Tantrum==
my cook keeps throwing tantrums when his masterpiece meals are eaten, i presume. he's generally not very happy (my fort is still in the early stages, so not much is working yet), but if one of his masterwork meals are eaten, it sends him over the edge. it also says in his profile that "he has suffered the travesty of art defacement" - is this a bug? has anyone else noticed it? is it vermin eating the food, as opposed to dwarves?
note: i've not actually SEEN anyone pick up one of his masterwork meals, eat it, then see the chef throw a tantrum (i've not been looking, tbh).. but i've had the 'masterwork' announcement from my cook, and then TWO tantrums in the 3 dwarven-days since. he has never had any other serious duties (only hauling labours).
help please --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 13:07, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
: *EDIT* - on the 40d 'Item quality' wiki it states; "Masterpiece meals can be eaten safely, although allowing the food to rot will provoke the same response as theft or destruction.", which was a very likely outcome, but my cook has now gone 'stark raving mad' so i cant test any further for a while. could someone verify that's still the set-up? and perhaps put a foot-note on the page, too? --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 23:24, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

== Succesful booze cooking? ==

I looked at one of my alcohol roasts... turns out all 4 ingredients ''were'' alcohol (longland beer, whip vine, longland beer, whip vine). [[User:Greep|Greep]] 21:07, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
: Edit: I have failed to ever screw up an all booze cooking. Added a note that it appears to be fixed. [[Special:Contributions/71.134.230.146|71.134.230.146]] 23:58, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Edit: okay it happened now. For whatever reason, the kitchen screen on 'z' had TWO dwarven wines listed. The bug happened when I bought some wine from a trader, although this previously had not caused a problem. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 23:53, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Cook

2010-05-23T23:53:04Z

Greep: /* Succesful booze cooking? */

==No Seeds==
In the previous version, cooking left no seeds for re-planting. Can this be verified for this version? --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 10:20, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
: I cooked an easy meal out of a wild strawberry and a prickle berry, and it produced no seed. [[User:Wccarrington|Wccarrington]] 22:09, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

==Lavish Meal==
In one fortress recently, it looked like I had a cook put more than four components into a lavish meal. I haven't seen it happen again (since I haven't been cooking lavish meals), so I didn't add it to the page- but that might be something worth looking for / verifying. --[[User:Vaniver|Vaniver]] 13:30, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
:Chances are that you've unintentionally encountered an old bug/exploit, which is explained in http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=49177.0 - whether that bug still exists in the new version, I don't know, but it was definitely in 40d. --[[User:Pushy|Pushy]] 11:18, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
::I think that bug has been fixed in DF2010. I attempted to use it to make a super artifact, but it just used the 3 items that the dwarf was after. So i think Vaniver encountered that bug in the previous version.
::I can also confirm that lavish meals use 4 items.
::[[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 00:56, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

==Tantrum==
my cook keeps throwing tantrums when his masterpiece meals are eaten, i presume. he's generally not very happy (my fort is still in the early stages, so not much is working yet), but if one of his masterwork meals are eaten, it sends him over the edge. it also says in his profile that "he has suffered the travesty of art defacement" - is this a bug? has anyone else noticed it? is it vermin eating the food, as opposed to dwarves?
note: i've not actually SEEN anyone pick up one of his masterwork meals, eat it, then see the chef throw a tantrum (i've not been looking, tbh).. but i've had the 'masterwork' announcement from my cook, and then TWO tantrums in the 3 dwarven-days since. he has never had any other serious duties (only hauling labours).
help please --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 13:07, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
: *EDIT* - on the 40d 'Item quality' wiki it states; "Masterpiece meals can be eaten safely, although allowing the food to rot will provoke the same response as theft or destruction.", which was a very likely outcome, but my cook has now gone 'stark raving mad' so i cant test any further for a while. could someone verify that's still the set-up? and perhaps put a foot-note on the page, too? --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 23:24, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

== Succesful booze cooking? ==

I looked at one of my alcohol roasts... turns out all 4 ingredients ''were'' alcohol (longland beer, whip vine, longland beer, whip vine). [[User:Greep|Greep]] 21:07, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
: Edit: I have failed to ever screw up an all booze cooking. Added a note that it appears to be fixed. [[Special:Contributions/71.134.230.146|71.134.230.146]] 23:58, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
:: Edit: okay it happened now. For whatever reason, the kitchen screen had TWO dwarven wines listed. The bug happened when I bought some wine from a trader, although this previously had not caused a problem. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 23:53, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Combat drills

2010-05-23T02:56:07Z

Greep:

{{av}}
{{Quality|Fine}}
Dwarves that are part of a squad that is not currently ordered into "combat mode" (''kill {monster}/station {location}'') will now "Train" when they have nothing else to do. If there is no one else to train with a Dwarf will initiate an "Individual Combat Drill". In order for this to happen you must have either a Barracks (zoned from a bed) or an Armory (zoned from a Weapons rack/Armor stand) and set it to "train" mode (using {{k|t}}).

By default, all squads are set to 'Active/Train' alert, in which they are assigned to train the entire year. To change this, go to {{l|Scheduling|alert}} screen ({{k|m}} {{k|a}}), select the new alert you want to set, then use right arrow to switch to squad listing and press {{k|enter}} to change the alert for the highlighted squad. Alternatively, you can use {{k|s}} from the game main menu, then select the squad you want to edit via its assigned letter, and repeatedly press {{k|t}} to cycle through the alerts.

While equipping a weapon, practicing Shield User and Dodging will occur magnitudes slower, if at all. If you are trying to practice skills for survival, it may be a good idea to drill with no weapon at all for a while.

v0.31:Combat drills

2010-05-23T02:55:47Z

Greep:

{{av}}
{{Quality|Fine}}
Dwarves that are part of a squad that is not currently ordered into "combat mode" (''kill {monster}/station {location}'') will now "Train" when they have nothing else to do. If there is no one else to train with a Dwarf will initiate an "Individual Combat Drill". In order for this to happen you must have either a Barracks (zoned from a bed) or an Armory (zoned from a Weapons rack/Armor stand) and set it to "train" mode (using {{k|t}}).

By default, all squads are set to 'Active/Train' alert, in which they are assigned to train the entire year. To change this, go to {{l|Scheduling|alert}} screen ({{k|m}} {{k|a}}), select the new alert you want to set, then use right arrow to switch to squad listing and press {{k|enter}} to change the alert for the highlighted squad. Alternatively, you can use {{k|s}} from the game main menu, then select the squad you want to edit via its assigned letter, and repeatedly press {{k|t}} to cycle through the alerts.

While equipping a weapon, practicing Shield User and Dodging will occur very slowly. If you are trying to practice skills for survival, it may be a good idea to drill with no weapon at all for a while.

v0.31:Noise

2010-05-22T05:44:01Z

Greep:

{{AV}}
{{Quality|Tattered}}
Many activities cause noise in a 3 dimensional radius (well cube anyways). It wakes up dwarves.

v0.31 Talk:Noise

2010-05-22T05:42:55Z

Greep: Workshops

== Workshops ==

Removing the note about workshops making noise. In 40d they didn't and they aren't waking my dwarves in bed immiediately below them either. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 05:42, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Combat drills

2010-05-22T03:37:04Z

Greep: /* Skills trained? */ new section

Shouldn't this be a page in the DF2010 namespace, instead of a page with a DF2010 section? --[[User:StrongAxe|StrongAxe]] 22:53, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

== group training? ==

I just started on the new version, but I cant get my dwarfs to train together... they just sit round on opposite ends of the barraks drilling themselves silly... can anyone help? -- Haydosss 7/4/2010
:This is just how they spar nowadays. They skill up insanely fast anyways, though, so meh [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:34, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

== Individual Combat Drill text color ==

What's the difference between "Individual Combat Drill" in yellow (the "No Job" color) vs. dimmed cyan (the "On Break" color) in the {{k|u}} screen? -[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 15:51, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
:So far I've only seen it on commanders, but it might be a coincidence. Can anyone confirm that? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:35, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

== Skills trained? ==

Is there a way to get your dwarf to train the skills you want? I want them to train shield user and they have a shield [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:37, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Combat drills

2010-05-22T03:35:30Z

Greep: /* Individual Combat Drill text color */

v0.31 Talk:Combat drills

2010-05-22T03:34:34Z

Greep: /* group training? */

v0.31 Talk:Cook

2010-05-20T21:07:36Z

Greep: /* Succesful booze cooking? */ new section

v0.31 Talk:Immigration

2010-05-14T00:45:20Z

Greep: /* Never Legendary? */ new section

==skills==
First migrant wave, 3 migrants, 1st summer. One migrant, a "stoneworker", had:
:* Competent (3) Armor User
:* Novice (1) Siege Operator
:* Competent (3) Fighter
:* Competent (3) Wrestler
:* Competent (3) Dodger
:* Expert (8) Engraver
:* Expert (8) Mason
:* Novice (1) Animal Dissector
:* Adequate* (2) Tanner ''(* the new term for the old "no label" level 2 experience slot)''
We ain't in Kansas any more!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:49, 5 April 2010 (UTC) 
Another (rerun via seasonal save, same season as above):
:* one w/ High Master (13) Furnace Operator and Talented (6) Appraiser.
:* one with Talented (6) Cheese Maker, Adequate (2) Gem Cutter and Novice Archer, Dodger, Armor User and (yes) Blowgunner.
:* and a very familiar level 2 (Adequate) Dyer.

I had one with *two* Grand Master (14) medical skills show up. (anon)
GM is 1 short of Legendary. It seems at least two things are true: 1) experience can be quite high, and 2) skills are no longer grouped by "profession", nor have to make any "sense" re matching up.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

==size of waves==
:For what it's worth, I've noticed on two separate forts that giving the first Dwarf caravan a good deal (100% profit or thereabouts) tends to produce a massive migrant wave the following spring. One fortress had 19 show, the other had ~20 (can't quite remember). These were varying in skill from the virtually-nothing to a jeweller with Grand Master Gem Cutter and Grand Master Gem Setter...

:For relatively new players like me, it might be worth noting here that you can get a migrant wave in the first spring after embark that literally doubles the size of your fortress and can prove a serious headache to manage if not anticipated. --[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 09:11, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

::And that's why there are talk pages. In 40d, it's not the trade % that matters, it's the increase in your Created Wealth - and if you had the wealth to trade, that's 100% consistent with the old paradigm. Not that things might not have changed in this version, but there are many, MANY variables in DF - which makes it that much harder to parse out. A LOT of our hard info comes from the RAW files, and from folk who can analyze the game code, but the rest comes from a combo of observation, confirmation and consensus. For now, keep an eye on Trade %, but watch Created Wealth as well. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Just had a new migrant wave turn up. 25 dwarfs - including several with Grand Master skill levels, and some with jack all - plus 8 animals. Have updated main page to reflect this. Has anyone else experienced such a large migration? (this is the third spring of the fort) --[[Special:Contributions/131.111.254.209|131.111.254.209]] 12:45, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:::25 used to be the max(iirc?) migration wave (plus children). I've had over 20, but haven't seen that many total to get any sense of what's "typical". Has anyone had OVER 25 (not including children)?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

It seem that now immigration is a lot less random and more wealth dependant. E.g. in the old version, your first year wave was entirely random and unless you never made a single item you would get exactly 8-10 sometime before spring (or not at all). Unless you never got a first immigration in which case you'd get the first mandatory one at your first new spring, which was up to 25.

Now I ALWAYS get a first summer immigration, with sizes so far from 2-8, the one with two in a fort without any craftsmen. It's pretty clear you can reliably get immigrants as long as you have enough wealth. I'm willing to wager that a fort with X wealth by summer is guaranteed an immigration, but I'd need to test further. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:55, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

I just got 26 (70 dwarves from 44, including at least 1 new child) on my 3rd Spring, after 2 (maybe 3?) seasons with 0 migrant. -- Cheshire
:Perhaps he only evened out the first year? I guess the question to ask is, has anyone missed a summer immigration with 20k wealth? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 09:44, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

== labor turned on ==
Just a hunch, but does the game actually check if a dwarf (before that wave?) is present with higher skill and only ''if not'' turns on the labor? I can't check any more, but I think it fits and it's the only reasonable explanantion I can come up with for now. That would be nifty. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 12:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:I think dwarves are just assigned a history of jobs (like NPCs), and their "latest" one is the active one, even if they're far better suited at another job. I've seen lower-skill miners and woodcutters arrive with their jobs on, although I cannot confirm if jobs like those are merely exceptions from your hypothesized rule or not. [[User:Trorbes|Trorbes]] 18:44, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
::I had the same thought as Trorbes here. I think this bug/feature would easily make sense in light of how dwarves will change their professions over time in Legends mode. But the immigrant dwarves are not pulled from existing creatures right? Are they still created on the spot to be immigrants? Either way, I would argue that arriving with multiple skills but only the most recent ones enabled is a fair simulation of world gen dwarves. [[User:Coaldiamond|-Coaldiamond]] 13:26, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== pattern with military skills? ==

It seems like immigrants arrive either completely without military skills, or they have quite a few. In particular, if they have X weapon they almost always have some fighting, armor user, etc to go with it. In addition, it seems like those non-weapon military skills are always smaller or equal to the highest weapon skill. Can anyone confirm this? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 20:36, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
:I was noticing a different pattern - posted as such, with {verify} tag.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:42, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

== HA! ==

Oh this is funny... so I get this blacksmith immigrant, with no blacksmithing skills o.O. His only skill? Competent Liar XD [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
:nvm, prolly had labor skills turned off. Bum :/ [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:57, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

== Crash bug ==

Encountering repeated crash bug when recieving 3rd immigrant in second spring. Tired of reloading. No idea about the cause.

== Never Legendary? ==

So far I have seen quite a few high masters but not a single legendary. Has anyone seen a legendary immigrant yet? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 00:45, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Quarry bush

2010-05-10T07:55:00Z

Greep:

{{Crop|color=7:0:0|seed_color=7:0:1|character=♣|name=Quarry bush|seed=Rock nut
|cookable=If processed
|spring=1|summer=1|autumn=1
|habitat=Subterranean
|uses=
* {{L|Food}}
|other_products=
* {{L|Quarry bush leaves}} (Process to bag)}}
{{av}}{{Quality|Fine}}

The '''quarry bush''' is one of the six known {{L|subterranean}} {{L|crop}}s, and as such it may only be grown underground. They can be planted in {{L|Spring}}, {{L|Summer}} and {{L|Autumn}}.

Quarry bush {{L|seed}}s are known as '''rock nuts'''. Unlike the seeds of other plants, they can be eaten raw.

Quarry bushes may be processed at a {{L|farmer's workshop}} into {{L|bag}}s of quarry bush leaves, which then must be cooked at the {{L|kitchen}} to be edible. You will need an empty bag to be available for this task.

Processing quarry bushes at a {{L|farmer's workshop}} will produce 5 quarry bush leaves (and one rock nut) for every plant in a given stack of quarry bushes. Processing one bush will require one {{L|bag}} and yields 5 leaves from each plant in stack. Quarry bush leaves will be removed from their bag if taken for cooking while still in a farmer's workshop.

{{L|Cook}}ing quarry bush leaves can result in very large stacks of Prepared Food, thus saving space and {{L|barrel}}s. In a fortress that relies on selling large expensive stacks of Prepared Food, quarry bush leaves are great filler: a lavish meal made from {{L|whip wine}} and {{L|cheese|dwarven cheese}} with two stacks of quarry bush leaves for filler is worth almost ten times more than an easy meal made from wine and cheese alone.

Quarry bushes cannot be {{L|still|brewed}} into {{L|alcohol}}.

Note: Currently they are bugged and cannot be cooked either.

{{gamedata}}
{{Plants}}

v0.31 Talk:Quarry bush

2010-05-10T07:54:18Z

Greep:

[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1124111#msg1124111 Torham reports that Quarry bush leaves cannot be cooked anymore.] (moved from article) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:20, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:Can confirm that :( [[User:Greep|Greep]] 07:54, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Trading

2010-04-18T10:19:34Z

Greep: /* Caravans */

{{av}}
{{elven}}
{{Building|name=Trade depot|key=D
|job=
* {{L|Broker}} noble (optional)
|construction=
3 of
* {{L|Block}}
* {{L|Metal bar}}
* {{L|Stone}}
* {{L|Wood}}
|construction_job=
* {{L|Architecture}}
* and 1 of:
** {{L|Metalsmithing}}
** {{L|Masonry}}
** {{L|Carpentry}}
|purpose=
Trade goods with merchants.
}}

'''Trading''' in Dwarf Fortress first occurs in the first {{L|Calendar|autumn}} after establishing your fortress, with the arrival of the {{L|dwarf|Dwarven}} {{L|Trading#Caravans|caravan}}. Trading is a good way to acquire resources that are not available or are rare in the local area. It also allows for more freedom in selecting starting gear or purchase of additional skills for the expedition party, because items can always be obtained through trade later.

'''Trader''' is the term used at your Trade Depot to refer to your fortress {{l|Broker}} when dealing with merchants in a visiting caravan ({{key|r}} - "''Trader requested at Depot"''). As a {{L|profession}}, the term usually only applies to those merchants, and to a dwarf whose highest {{L|skill}} is {{L|Appraiser}}.

== Trade Depot ==
Building a '''Trade Depot''' ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}}) is a requisite for trade with caravans that arrive at your fortress. Trade depots can be created from almost any material, and construction requires the {{L|Architecture}} skill along with the appropriate craft labor ({{L|Carpentry}}, {{L|Masonry}}, or {{L|Metalsmithing}}). There must be at least 10 spaces between the Depot and the edge of the map.{{version|0.31.01}}

While it may be convenient to build a Trade Depot outside at first, it is usually a really good idea to move it inside or build walls, bridges and other fortifications around it to protect caravans and your goods from animals (guzzlers), {{L|thief|thieves}} and {{L|goblin}}s.

Once built, hit {{K|q}} to bring up the building interaction mode, and then move your cursor over the Trade Depot to gain access to the following options:

=== Move Goods to/from Depot ===
{{K|g}}: This command becomes active when a caravan arrives on your map. This screen menu is similar to the {{L|stock}}s menu ({{K|z}} - Stocks). This is where you select what items you want to trade with the caravan. If you have particular items you want to sell to the caravan, you can {{K|s}}earch for it. This is convenient if you want to export all your prepared meals or finished goods. Also shown is the culling on {{K|m}}andate option. The move to depot screen will not show things that violate an export {{L|mandate}}. By pressing {{K|m}}, it will change to Ignoring {{K|m}}andates, and you can select banned items for export. For example, if your {{L|mayor}} has a mandate banning the export of iron, this screen will hide bins that contain iron items. By changing this option, all iron items will be shown.{{Verify}}<br\> <br\>After selecting items and exiting the screen, {{L|job}}s will be queued to move the items to the depot. All dwarves, regardless of {{L|labor}} settings, can move goods to the depot. Items that have not been moved will show [PENDING], while those that have been brought to the depot and are ready for trade and will be marked as [TRADING]. <br\><br\>Items selected for trading will remain at the depot until the caravan leaves. Alternatively you can select the item again. Once no longer required at the depot, items will be available for use or hauling to stockpiles as normal. If you don't want all the items to be returned to their stockpiles, you can optionally {{K|f}}orbid them by looking at the {{L|Controls_guide#View_items_in_buildings.2C_t|i{{K|t}}ems}} in the depot.

=== No trader needed at depot or Trader requested at depot ===
{{K|r}}: This requests a dwarf to come to the depot. To conduct trades with caravans, a trader must be present at the Trade Depot. Once requested, a dwarf will make their way to the depot, and remain there until released with this setting, or the dwarf decides to drink, sleep, or eat.

=== Only broker may trade or Anyone may trade ===
{{K|b}}: This setting determines who will perform the trade. If '''Only broker may trade''' is active, then only the {{L|Broker}} {{L|noble}} will respond to the trader request. This can become a problem when the broker is sleeping or otherwise occupied, but dwarves with low {{L|Broker skills}} will receive poorer deals when trading. If anyone may trade is selected, and someone other than the broker becomes a better {{L|appraiser}} than the broker, the broker's appraisal skill is still used.

=== Trade ===
{{K|t}}: This option becomes available once the caravan and your trader are both at the depot. It begins trading.

<s>
Do not build two or more Trade Depots, as then neither will work properly.</s>{{Verify}}Assuming false. Depot accessibility screen now features information about multiple depots (all depots accessible vs depot accessible)

Everything that is on your map belongs to you, except:

* the items of non-fortress members (only if they are alive, when they are dead they belong to you if you claim the items),{{Verify}}
* the items that are in trade wagons or on merchant animals{{Verify}}
* the items that are on the trade depot (they belong to nobody until they are moved out of it)

So, merchant goods that ''were'' on the trade depot belong to you if they are not on trade wagons/merchant animals. So a {{L|Cheating|little hint}}: when the merchants have finished unloading, remove the depot!

==Trading Flowchart ==
{{:Trading/Flowchart}}
After entering the trade menu, select the items to offer from the right, and the desired items from the left. All caravans have a weight limit which cannot be exceeded, and the allowed additional weight is displayed in the lower right corner. If the acting broker has at least Novice or better {{L|Appraisal}} skill, the value of all items will be displayed. Once the proposal is ready, press {{K|t}} to make an offer, but merchants will not agree unless they make adequate profit. Be sure to use '''trade''', not '''offer''' {{K|o}}, as this will make a gift of the selected items. The amount of acceptable profit is determined by the broker's {{L|Broker skills|skills}} and the merchant's mood, described below. Merchants may attempt to propose counteroffers if they do not accept the proposal, which can then be accepted, rejected, or further amended by the broker.

<s>A good rule of thumb for inexperienced brokers is to give merchants a 50% or better profit. For example, if the desired goods are worth 500☼, make sure their profit is at least 250☼ (which would make the total worth of goods marked on your side 750☼). This should ensure that the merchants are happy with the trading and that they accept the trade immediately without making ridiculous counteroffers.</s> With more experienced brokers or pleased merchants, even marginally profitable trades can be successful, and counteroffers can be rejected safely, offering the same trade again. Note however that a low profit margin for the traders may not be desirable - it has been suggested that both export and profit numbers influence the size of next years caravan and, in the case of the dwarven caravan, immigration numbers.{{Verify}}

Goods brought from caravans do not have base quality higher than superior, but decorations on a good may be of any quality.{{Verify}}

== Trading cue colors ==

* Items in brown have been created (or modified) by your fortress. They can be traded away or offered as a gift.
* Items in white were created by another source. They can be traded, but if one of these items has been selected, the entire selection cannot be offered as a gift.
* Items in purple are under a no-export mandate and should not be traded away unless exceptional circumstances (or masochism) push you to do this.{{Verify}}
* Items in green have just been gifted to the caravan and they will not trade it back.
* Items in red have been seized from another caravan and cannot be traded as is; you will need to decorate them or turn them into other items for them to become "valid" trading items. However, usually a caravan from a different civilization will accept stolen goods without changing them first.{{Verify}}

== Merchant mood ==
If your broker has Novice or better {{L|Judge of Intent}} skill, there will be a line added below the merchant's dialogue describing the caravan's attitude. Their attitude rises with successful trades (especially if they get lots of profit) and falls when you propose deals they don't like.

* (trader) seems ecstatic with the trading
* (trader) seems very happy about the trading
* (trader) seems pleased with the trading
* (trader) seems willing to trade (Default, at least for humans)
* (trader) seems to be rapidly losing patience
* (trader) is not going to take much more of this
* (trader) is unwilling to trade

The happier you make a merchant, the less profit margin he will demand in a trade. If merchants reach the lowest level, no further trade will be possible, and they will immediately pack up and leave your depot. Since annoyed traders are more likely to reject deals, you should be generous in initial negotiations. Skilled negotiators seem less likely to offend traders with unsuccessful deals.

An easy way to capitalize on this mood system is to perform several partial trades. First trade for a few items, offering goods twice the value of the items you ask for (eg, offer 2000☼ for 1000☼ of his stuff). This will likely make the merchant ecstatic about trading with you. Exit the trade screen, unpause briefly, and then return to trading with a vengeance. With the merchant in such a good mood, he is more likely to counteroffer than reject a trade outright.

== Seizing items ==

Pressing {{K|s}} from the trade menu will seize the selected items of the merchant's. If you seize goods from a caravan, the merchant will respond "Take what you want. I can't stop you." and then leave immediately without the seized goods. Items cannot be seized from the dwarven caravan, and other races will not buy goods stolen from one of their caravans (then marked in red) unless they are tricked into asking for them via counteroffer, or the items are "laundered" by decoration or used to create other goods. Seizing goods will hurt diplomatic relations, but is not grounds for an automatic {{L|siege}}.{{Verify}}

Pressing the seize button while no goods are selected will result in the merchant interpreting your seizure as a joke. This apparently does nothing to benefit or hinder your trading.{{Verify}}

As a side note, if you deconstruct your trade depot with a caravan in it, the wagons will be killed and all the caravan's items will drop to the ground, to be readily hauled away by your Dwarves. This does not mark the items as stolen, and the caravan will leave. However, ''next'' year's caravan is partly based on the profits from the previous year - so if you are relying on that race's caravans for needed items, you're hurting yourself in the long run.{{Verify}}

Another way to steal without marking as stolen is to forbid the trade depot just before they leave, causing them to leave their goods at the depot.{{Verify}}

Note that the civilization attached to a particular caravan will keep track of the value of items the caravan was carrying when they set out to trade, and they will compare this value with the value of items they return home with. Regardless of what method you use to confiscate items from a caravan, even if you came to possess the goods through no fault of your own (an {{L|ambush}} killed the caravaners, for example) the parent civilization may decide that you stole from them and send a {{L|siege}} instead of a caravan the following year. It is prudent to take measures to protect caravans visiting your lands!{{Verify}}

==Offering items==

{{key|o}} You can also give away items, as gifts to the leaders of the {{L|civilization}} you are trading with. This presumably helps relations between yourself and the other faction. The exact effects are unknown but it is believed that offering goods increases the quantity and variety of trade goods brought by next year's caravan. Also the {{L|King}} usually requires offerings to be made before his arrival.{{Verify}}

'''''Note:''' There are currently no benefits to offering goods to your king; the game developers have stated that this is to be changed in future versions.'' ("''Req174, REASON FOR OFFERING, (Future): There's no point of offering goods to your own king right now.)"''

== Miscellaneous Trading Advice ==

* Several small trades, exiting the trade window each time, will increase the Broker's relevant skills during the early game.
* Food inside the Trade Depot can go bad. Have a food stockpile nearby so you can quickly haul goods inside.
* Thieves and thieving critters tend to follow caravans. Expect assaults and intruders.
* Be careful about asking traders to bring lots of individual lightweight items (such as meat and fish) as it can result in traders taking a very long time to unload their goods. Unless the path to your depot is extremely long, though, this is unlikely to cause significant problems.{{Verify}}

== Caravans ==
Each friendly race will send a caravan per year, linked to one season, which is autumn for dwarves, summer for humans, spring for elves. In rare cases, goblins will show up in winter.{{verify}} However, in the first year only a dwarven caravan will arrive, although it will tend to arrive later than mid-august, unlike previous versions {{verify}}. Caravans will only show up if that race considers the fortress site accessible (as denoted on the embark screen), with the exception of dwarves, who always arrive unless they are extinct.{{verify}} Caravans appear to enter the map from a random direction which does not coincide with the relative direction of the originating {{L|civilization}}, and they may appear from different directions or z-levels each year. Caravans may leave without trading if it takes too long to reach the trade depot. Caravans with wagons cannot use stairs. Caravans will embark on their journey back exactly one month after their arrival, whether they have succeeded in reaching the depot or not.{{Verify}}

Note that if traders or their animals are prevented from leaving, they will eventually go {{L|insane}}. {{Verify}}

== Wagons ==

:'''''Note:''' Wagons appear to have been removed since DF 31.01. Toady has not yet signaled if this is a bug or not.''

== Liaisons ==
{{L|Liaison}}s may be sent with caravans to speak to important dwarves. They will allow you to choose the type of items that your fortress is interested in, and will focus on bringing more of that kind of item on the next caravan (however those items will also be more expensive). They will also present you with a list of the items they're willing to pay more for, which will be effective upon their next arrival.

Trade agreements can be viewed at a later time through the Civilization menu ({{k|c}}). These trade agreements are cleared when a liason of the corresponding civilization enters the screen, so they are generally not accessible after the caravan has arrived.

Note that if a liaison is prevented from leaving, they will eventually go {{L|insane}}. {{Verify}}

== Races ==
The following races send caravans.

==== {{L|Dwarves}} ====
The dwarven caravan:
* arrives in {{L|Calendar|autumn}}.
* typically carries {{L|food}}, {{L|alcohol|booze}}, {{L|leather}} and more. Dwarves alone may carry {{L|steel}} and steel goods.
* tends to be well guarded.
* sends a liaison who will speak with the {{L|Expedition leader}} (or {{L|Mayor}}) to negotiate prices.
* influences the number of immigrants received (if the caravan leaves intact).{{verify}}
* will not cause sieges when repeatedly destroyed or lost.
* is the only caravan to arrive during a fortress' first year.
* always arrives regardless of embark location.{{verify}}
* cannot have its goods seized from the trade menu.

==== {{L|elf|Elves}} ====
[[Image:Evil_elves.png|thumb|400px|A typical elven caravan.]]

The elven caravan:
* arrives in {{L|Calendar|spring}}.
* typically carries {{L|cloth}}, {{L|Restraint|rope}}, various above ground {{L|plant}}s and their byproducts, {{L|log}}s, {{L|wood}}en {{L|craft}}s & {{L|weapon}}s, clothing and {{L|armor}}, and may carry tame {{L|creature}}s.
* tends to be unguarded.
* does not accept some items in trade:

Elven traders do not like to be offered any tree byproducts. Forbidden items include:

* {{L|Wood}}en items, and items derived from wood (including {{L|tower-cap}} logs), such as {{L|charcoal}} and {{L|pearlash}}
* Items made from clear and crystal {{L|glass}} (because {{L|pearlash}} is used in their creation) - green glass appears to be perfectly acceptable
* Items {{L|decoration|decorated}} with any of the above materials
* {{L|Obsidian}} shortswords (since they have wooden handles)
* {{L|Soap}} (made with {{L|ash}}) {{verify}}

Offering or trading forbidden items will cause the mood of the trader to drop rapidly, quickly (possible after first offer) causing him to refuse to trade any more that season and leave immediately. Additionally you will be called uncouth, crude, and barbaric.

However, {{L|stone}} and {{L|metal}} items, even when {{L|charcoal}} is used in production, are acceptable. Items made from {{L|silk}} are acceptable, as are all non-wooden plant-derived products such as {{L|cloth}} and {{L|thread}}. Items made of bone and shell are acceptable. You can also transport your goods to the {{L|trade depot}} in a wooden {{L|bin}}, as long as you do not try to sell the bin. Living animals are acceptable, as long as the {{L|cage}} or {{L|trap}} is not made of {{L|wood}}.

Be especially careful with reselling decorated items from other caravans, as non-wood/glass items may have decorations of wood or clear/crystal glass. All items that elven caravans sell are also unacceptable to sell back to elves, as the dwarves have no means of proving that they were made in an "elf kosher" way — and all dwarves know that elves have terrible memory.

==== {{L|Human}}s ====
The human caravan:
* arrives in {{L|Calendar|summer}}.
* tends to be moderately guarded.
* sends a liaison who will speak with the broker to negotiate prices if the fortress is big enough.

==== {{L|Goblin}}s{{Verify}} ====
A goblin caravan ''may'' arrive if your civilization is at peace with the goblins.

The goblin caravan:
*will arrive every season, four times per year{{verify}}
*tends to be unguarded
*brings mostly food and cloth
*does not send a liaison or a guild representative
*does not make import/export agreements

----

* All caravans (goblins too?{{verify}}) carry the more wood logs the smaller a fort's wood stockpile, independent of whether you requested them. This does not apply when the weight limit is exceded by (other) items you requested.

== Destruction ==
If caravans are destroyed (intentionally or unintentionally), the items may remain for use. Traders caught in a {{L|cave-in}} will flee as if they were attacked but will leave all the items dropped by the caravan behind. Pack animals carrying items are affected just like a normal tamed {{L|mule}} and must be killed in the cave-in for them to drop items on the ground. It is however much more likely that the pack animal(s) will only be stunned or rendered unconscious and flee shortly after recovering from the hit. Wagons will collapse if caught in a cave-in, leaving all that it was carrying on the ground as a result. Wagons can also be destroyed by {{L|ocean}} waves coming up onto the shore if you have settled in the appropriate area. The only difference between collapsing under waves or a cave-in is a higher probably of recovering items if the wagon is destroyed by a wave.{{Verify}}

While caravans can defend themselves, they don't like being ambushed. An encounter with unfriendly creatures may cause them to retreat and forget about trading with you for the season.{{verify}} Repeated caravan destruction (intentional or unintentional) will strain diplomatic relations and may result in a {{L|siege}}.{{Verify}}

== Caravan Delay ==
If a caravan has arrived at your trade depot and is unable to leave for about six months after they arrived, the merchants and animals will go insane. This can result in a bunch of merchants attacking your dwarves, or just standing around moping until they starve to death. It is not known for certain if this hurts diplomatic relations, but most likely it's the same as any case where the entire caravan fails to return home.{{Verify}}

If you have locked the caravan into your fortress to hold out against a siege, it's a good idea to station a squad of soldiers near the trade depot in case the merchants {{L|Insanity#Types|go berserk}}. You may also want to make the depot a restricted area to encourage civilians to go around it. Alternatively, you can design the trade depot using drawbridges so that it can be sealed off from the rest of the fortress during a siege.

If you want the merchants to leave safely, you can build four or more tunnels to each corner of the map, connected to your fortress only by drawbridges. As long as there is no other way to enter and exit your fortress, invaders and merchants will both go towards any tunnel that you activate. You can lock the merchants into the trade depot, and then open a tunnel entrance on one side of the map to make the invaders head towards that tunnel. When they get close to it, you can close it, and then open the entrance on the other side of the map, and let the traders out of the depot. If your fortress and depot are in the middle of the map, this will give the traders quite a head-start to get away.{{Verify}}

v0.31 Talk:Immigration

2010-04-18T09:44:11Z

Greep: /* size of waves */

==skills==
First migrant wave, 3 migrants, 1st summer. One migrant, a "stoneworker", had:
:* Competent (3) Armor User
:* Novice (1) Siege Operator
:* Competent (3) Fighter
:* Competent (3) Wrestler
:* Competent (3) Dodger
:* Expert (8) Engraver
:* Expert (8) Mason
:* Novice (1) Animal Dissector
:* Adequate* (2) Tanner ''(* the new term for the old "no label" level 2 experience slot)''
We ain't in Kansas any more!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:49, 5 April 2010 (UTC) 
Another (rerun via seasonal save, same season as above):
:* one w/ High Master (13) Furnace Operator and Talented (6) Appraiser.
:* one with Talented (6) Cheese Maker, Adequate (2) Gem Cutter and Novice Archer, Dodger, Armor User and (yes) Blowgunner.
:* and a very familiar level 2 (Adequate) Dyer.

I had one with *two* Grand Master (14) medical skills show up. (anon)
GM is 1 short of Legendary. It seems at least two things are true: 1) experience can be quite high, and 2) skills are no longer grouped by "profession", nor have to make any "sense" re matching up.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

==size of waves==
:For what it's worth, I've noticed on two separate forts that giving the first Dwarf caravan a good deal (100% profit or thereabouts) tends to produce a massive migrant wave the following spring. One fortress had 19 show, the other had ~20 (can't quite remember). These were varying in skill from the virtually-nothing to a jeweller with Grand Master Gem Cutter and Grand Master Gem Setter...

:For relatively new players like me, it might be worth noting here that you can get a migrant wave in the first spring after embark that literally doubles the size of your fortress and can prove a serious headache to manage if not anticipated. --[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 09:11, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

::And that's why there are talk pages. In 40d, it's not the trade % that matters, it's the increase in your Created Wealth - and if you had the wealth to trade, that's 100% consistent with the old paradigm. Not that things might not have changed in this version, but there are many, MANY variables in DF - which makes it that much harder to parse out. A LOT of our hard info comes from the RAW files, and from folk who can analyze the game code, but the rest comes from a combo of observation, confirmation and consensus. For now, keep an eye on Trade %, but watch Created Wealth as well. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Just had a new migrant wave turn up. 25 dwarfs - including several with Grand Master skill levels, and some with jack all - plus 8 animals. Have updated main page to reflect this. Has anyone else experienced such a large migration? (this is the third spring of the fort) --[[Special:Contributions/131.111.254.209|131.111.254.209]] 12:45, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:::25 used to be the max(iirc?) migration wave (plus children). I've had over 20, but haven't seen that many total to get any sense of what's "typical". Has anyone had OVER 25 (not including children)?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

It seem that now immigration is a lot less random and more wealth dependant. E.g. in the old version, your first year wave was entirely random and unless you never made a single item you would get exactly 8-10 sometime before spring (or not at all). Unless you never got a first immigration in which case you'd get the first mandatory one at your first new spring, which was up to 25.

Now I ALWAYS get a first summer immigration, with sizes so far from 2-8, the one with two in a fort without any craftsmen. It's pretty clear you can reliably get immigrants as long as you have enough wealth. I'm willing to wager that a fort with X wealth by summer is guaranteed an immigration, but I'd need to test further. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:55, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

I just got 26 (70 dwarves from 44, including at least 1 new child) on my 3rd Spring, after 2 (maybe 3?) seasons with 0 migrant. -- Cheshire
:Perhaps he only evened out the first year? I guess the question to ask is, has anyone missed a summer immigration with 20k wealth? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 09:44, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

== labor turned on ==
Just a hunch, but does the game actually check if a dwarf (before that wave?) is present with higher skill and only ''if not'' turns on the labor? I can't check any more, but I think it fits and it's the only reasonable explanantion I can come up with for now. That would be nifty. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 12:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:I think dwarves are just assigned a history of jobs (like NPCs), and their "latest" one is the active one, even if they're far better suited at another job. I've seen lower-skill miners and woodcutters arrive with their jobs on, although I cannot confirm if jobs like those are merely exceptions from your hypothesized rule or not. [[User:Trorbes|Trorbes]] 18:44, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

== pattern with military skills? ==

It seems like immigrants arrive either completely without military skills, or they have quite a few. In particular, if they have X weapon they almost always have some fighting, armor user, etc to go with it. In addition, it seems like those non-weapon military skills are always smaller or equal to the highest weapon skill. Can anyone confirm this? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 20:36, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

== HA! ==

Oh this is funny... so I get this blacksmith immigrant, with no blacksmithing skills o.O. His only skill? Competent Liar XD [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
:nvm, prolly had labor skills turned off. Bum :/ [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:57, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Channel

2010-04-17T10:16:42Z

Greep: /* Channels and Ramps */

==Channels and Ramps==
channeling creates ramps now. Is this intentional? [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 22:28, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
:Think about it, nobody can dig a perfect block from on top ;). --[[User:Tarran|Tarran]] 03:01, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
::I always assumed the dwarves different anatomy allowed them to dig like that. --Guest
:::This changes defence construction significantly. Unless I'm missing something, you can no longer dig moats and pits without sending someone down and leaving an exit. This makes bridge pits in corridors virtually useless, no? --[[User:Njero|Njero]] 00:32, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::::If you channel a tile that has already been dug from below, it'll disappear just like it used to, but yes, dwarves are only able to dig out half a natural wall from above now (thus leaving the ramped other half). So you can dig pits and the like, but you'll have to get the dwarf out through a side exit or similar if you want the ramps removed. I liked the old way too but I'm sure we'll all adapt quickly enough. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 00:52, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::::What troubles me more is, wouldn't channeling into lava now be accesible to dwarves?! Waaaaaay too much [[Fun]]. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 02:30, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
GRRRRR... well lava overflows on channels unless you remove the ramps. On the plus side no more pumps needed, on the bad side, really dangerous! Dwarves WILL move zip in and out of a long channel even if there's lava inside [[User:Greep|Greep]] 04:37, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
:*facepalm* nvm, I'm just being really dumb [[User:Greep|Greep]] 10:16, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Channel

2010-04-17T04:37:56Z

Greep: /* Channels and Ramps */

v0.31 Talk:Immigration

2010-04-17T04:00:37Z

Greep: /* HA! */

==skills==
First migrant wave, 3 migrants, 1st summer. One migrant, a "stoneworker", had:
:* Competent (3) Armor User
:* Novice (1) Siege Operator
:* Competent (3) Fighter
:* Competent (3) Wrestler
:* Competent (3) Dodger
:* Expert (8) Engraver
:* Expert (8) Mason
:* Novice (1) Animal Dissector
:* Adequate* (2) Tanner ''(* the new term for the old "no label" level 2 experience slot)''
We ain't in Kansas any more!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:49, 5 April 2010 (UTC) 
Another (rerun via seasonal save, same season as above):
:* one w/ High Master (13) Furnace Operator and Talented (6) Appraiser.
:* one with Talented (6) Cheese Maker, Adequate (2) Gem Cutter and Novice Archer, Dodger, Armor User and (yes) Blowgunner.
:* and a very familiar level 2 (Adequate) Dyer.

I had one with *two* Grand Master (14) medical skills show up. (anon)
GM is 1 short of Legendary. It seems at least two things are true: 1) experience can be quite high, and 2) skills are no longer grouped by "profession", nor have to make any "sense" re matching up.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

==size of waves==
:For what it's worth, I've noticed on two separate forts that giving the first Dwarf caravan a good deal (100% profit or thereabouts) tends to produce a massive migrant wave the following spring. One fortress had 19 show, the other had ~20 (can't quite remember). These were varying in skill from the virtually-nothing to a jeweller with Grand Master Gem Cutter and Grand Master Gem Setter...

:For relatively new players like me, it might be worth noting here that you can get a migrant wave in the first spring after embark that literally doubles the size of your fortress and can prove a serious headache to manage if not anticipated. --[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 09:11, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

::And that's why there are talk pages. In 40d, it's not the trade % that matters, it's the increase in your Created Wealth - and if you had the wealth to trade, that's 100% consistent with the old paradigm. Not that things might not have changed in this version, but there are many, MANY variables in DF - which makes it that much harder to parse out. A LOT of our hard info comes from the RAW files, and from folk who can analyze the game code, but the rest comes from a combo of observation, confirmation and consensus. For now, keep an eye on Trade %, but watch Created Wealth as well. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Just had a new migrant wave turn up. 25 dwarfs - including several with Grand Master skill levels, and some with jack all - plus 8 animals. Have updated main page to reflect this. Has anyone else experienced such a large migration? (this is the third spring of the fort) --[[Special:Contributions/131.111.254.209|131.111.254.209]] 12:45, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:::25 used to be the max(iirc?) migration wave (plus children). I've had over 20, but haven't seen that many total to get any sense of what's "typical". Has anyone had OVER 25 (not including children)?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

It seem that now immigration is a lot less random and more wealth dependant. E.g. in the old version, your first year wave was entirely random and unless you never made a single item you would get exactly 8-10 sometime before spring (or not at all). Unless you never got a first immigration in which case you'd get the first mandatory one at your first new spring, which was up to 25.

Now I ALWAYS get a first summer immigration, with sizes so far from 2-8, the one with two in a fort without any craftsmen. It's pretty clear you can reliably get immigrants as long as you have enough wealth. I'm willing to wager that a fort with X wealth by summer is guaranteed an immigration, but I'd need to test further. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:55, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

== labor turned on ==
Just a hunch, but does the game actually check if a dwarf (before that wave?) is present with higher skill and only ''if not'' turns on the labor? I can't check any more, but I think it fits and it's the only reasonable explanantion I can come up with for now. That would be nifty. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 12:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:I think dwarves are just assigned a history of jobs (like NPCs), and their "latest" one is the active one, even if they're far better suited at another job. I've seen lower-skill miners and woodcutters arrive with their jobs on, although I cannot confirm if jobs like those are merely exceptions from your hypothesized rule or not. [[User:Trorbes|Trorbes]] 18:44, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

== pattern with military skills? ==

It seems like immigrants arrive either completely without military skills, or they have quite a few. In particular, if they have X weapon they almost always have some fighting, armor user, etc to go with it. In addition, it seems like those non-weapon military skills are always smaller or equal to the highest weapon skill. Can anyone confirm this? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 20:36, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

== HA! ==

Oh this is funny... so I get this blacksmith immigrant, with no blacksmithing skills o.O. His only skill? Competent Liar XD [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
:nvm, prolly had labor skills turned off. Bum :/ [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:57, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Immigration

2010-04-17T04:00:29Z

Greep: /* pattern with military skills? */

==skills==
First migrant wave, 3 migrants, 1st summer. One migrant, a "stoneworker", had:
:* Competent (3) Armor User
:* Novice (1) Siege Operator
:* Competent (3) Fighter
:* Competent (3) Wrestler
:* Competent (3) Dodger
:* Expert (8) Engraver
:* Expert (8) Mason
:* Novice (1) Animal Dissector
:* Adequate* (2) Tanner ''(* the new term for the old "no label" level 2 experience slot)''
We ain't in Kansas any more!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:49, 5 April 2010 (UTC) 
Another (rerun via seasonal save, same season as above):
:* one w/ High Master (13) Furnace Operator and Talented (6) Appraiser.
:* one with Talented (6) Cheese Maker, Adequate (2) Gem Cutter and Novice Archer, Dodger, Armor User and (yes) Blowgunner.
:* and a very familiar level 2 (Adequate) Dyer.

I had one with *two* Grand Master (14) medical skills show up. (anon)
GM is 1 short of Legendary. It seems at least two things are true: 1) experience can be quite high, and 2) skills are no longer grouped by "profession", nor have to make any "sense" re matching up.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

==size of waves==
:For what it's worth, I've noticed on two separate forts that giving the first Dwarf caravan a good deal (100% profit or thereabouts) tends to produce a massive migrant wave the following spring. One fortress had 19 show, the other had ~20 (can't quite remember). These were varying in skill from the virtually-nothing to a jeweller with Grand Master Gem Cutter and Grand Master Gem Setter...

:For relatively new players like me, it might be worth noting here that you can get a migrant wave in the first spring after embark that literally doubles the size of your fortress and can prove a serious headache to manage if not anticipated. --[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 09:11, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

::And that's why there are talk pages. In 40d, it's not the trade % that matters, it's the increase in your Created Wealth - and if you had the wealth to trade, that's 100% consistent with the old paradigm. Not that things might not have changed in this version, but there are many, MANY variables in DF - which makes it that much harder to parse out. A LOT of our hard info comes from the RAW files, and from folk who can analyze the game code, but the rest comes from a combo of observation, confirmation and consensus. For now, keep an eye on Trade %, but watch Created Wealth as well. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Just had a new migrant wave turn up. 25 dwarfs - including several with Grand Master skill levels, and some with jack all - plus 8 animals. Have updated main page to reflect this. Has anyone else experienced such a large migration? (this is the third spring of the fort) --[[Special:Contributions/131.111.254.209|131.111.254.209]] 12:45, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:::25 used to be the max(iirc?) migration wave (plus children). I've had over 20, but haven't seen that many total to get any sense of what's "typical". Has anyone had OVER 25 (not including children)?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

It seem that now immigration is a lot less random and more wealth dependant. E.g. in the old version, your first year wave was entirely random and unless you never made a single item you would get exactly 8-10 sometime before spring (or not at all). Unless you never got a first immigration in which case you'd get the first mandatory one at your first new spring, which was up to 25.

Now I ALWAYS get a first summer immigration, with sizes so far from 2-8, the one with two in a fort without any craftsmen. It's pretty clear you can reliably get immigrants as long as you have enough wealth. I'm willing to wager that a fort with X wealth by summer is guaranteed an immigration, but I'd need to test further. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:55, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

== labor turned on ==
Just a hunch, but does the game actually check if a dwarf (before that wave?) is present with higher skill and only ''if not'' turns on the labor? I can't check any more, but I think it fits and it's the only reasonable explanantion I can come up with for now. That would be nifty. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 12:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:I think dwarves are just assigned a history of jobs (like NPCs), and their "latest" one is the active one, even if they're far better suited at another job. I've seen lower-skill miners and woodcutters arrive with their jobs on, although I cannot confirm if jobs like those are merely exceptions from your hypothesized rule or not. [[User:Trorbes|Trorbes]] 18:44, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

== pattern with military skills? ==

It seems like immigrants arrive either completely without military skills, or they have quite a few. In particular, if they have X weapon they almost always have some fighting, armor user, etc to go with it. In addition, it seems like those non-weapon military skills are always smaller or equal to the highest weapon skill. Can anyone confirm this? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 20:36, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

== HA! ==

Oh this is funny... so I get this blacksmith immigrant, with no blacksmithing skills o.O. His only skill? Competent Liar XD [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Immigration

2010-04-17T03:57:06Z

Greep: /* pattern with military skills? */

==skills==
First migrant wave, 3 migrants, 1st summer. One migrant, a "stoneworker", had:
:* Competent (3) Armor User
:* Novice (1) Siege Operator
:* Competent (3) Fighter
:* Competent (3) Wrestler
:* Competent (3) Dodger
:* Expert (8) Engraver
:* Expert (8) Mason
:* Novice (1) Animal Dissector
:* Adequate* (2) Tanner ''(* the new term for the old "no label" level 2 experience slot)''
We ain't in Kansas any more!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:49, 5 April 2010 (UTC) 
Another (rerun via seasonal save, same season as above):
:* one w/ High Master (13) Furnace Operator and Talented (6) Appraiser.
:* one with Talented (6) Cheese Maker, Adequate (2) Gem Cutter and Novice Archer, Dodger, Armor User and (yes) Blowgunner.
:* and a very familiar level 2 (Adequate) Dyer.

I had one with *two* Grand Master (14) medical skills show up. (anon)
GM is 1 short of Legendary. It seems at least two things are true: 1) experience can be quite high, and 2) skills are no longer grouped by "profession", nor have to make any "sense" re matching up.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

==size of waves==
:For what it's worth, I've noticed on two separate forts that giving the first Dwarf caravan a good deal (100% profit or thereabouts) tends to produce a massive migrant wave the following spring. One fortress had 19 show, the other had ~20 (can't quite remember). These were varying in skill from the virtually-nothing to a jeweller with Grand Master Gem Cutter and Grand Master Gem Setter...

:For relatively new players like me, it might be worth noting here that you can get a migrant wave in the first spring after embark that literally doubles the size of your fortress and can prove a serious headache to manage if not anticipated. --[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 09:11, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

::And that's why there are talk pages. In 40d, it's not the trade % that matters, it's the increase in your Created Wealth - and if you had the wealth to trade, that's 100% consistent with the old paradigm. Not that things might not have changed in this version, but there are many, MANY variables in DF - which makes it that much harder to parse out. A LOT of our hard info comes from the RAW files, and from folk who can analyze the game code, but the rest comes from a combo of observation, confirmation and consensus. For now, keep an eye on Trade %, but watch Created Wealth as well. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Just had a new migrant wave turn up. 25 dwarfs - including several with Grand Master skill levels, and some with jack all - plus 8 animals. Have updated main page to reflect this. Has anyone else experienced such a large migration? (this is the third spring of the fort) --[[Special:Contributions/131.111.254.209|131.111.254.209]] 12:45, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:::25 used to be the max(iirc?) migration wave (plus children). I've had over 20, but haven't seen that many total to get any sense of what's "typical". Has anyone had OVER 25 (not including children)?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

It seem that now immigration is a lot less random and more wealth dependant. E.g. in the old version, your first year wave was entirely random and unless you never made a single item you would get exactly 8-10 sometime before spring (or not at all). Unless you never got a first immigration in which case you'd get the first mandatory one at your first new spring, which was up to 25.

Now I ALWAYS get a first summer immigration, with sizes so far from 2-8, the one with two in a fort without any craftsmen. It's pretty clear you can reliably get immigrants as long as you have enough wealth. I'm willing to wager that a fort with X wealth by summer is guaranteed an immigration, but I'd need to test further. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:55, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

== labor turned on ==
Just a hunch, but does the game actually check if a dwarf (before that wave?) is present with higher skill and only ''if not'' turns on the labor? I can't check any more, but I think it fits and it's the only reasonable explanantion I can come up with for now. That would be nifty. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 12:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:I think dwarves are just assigned a history of jobs (like NPCs), and their "latest" one is the active one, even if they're far better suited at another job. I've seen lower-skill miners and woodcutters arrive with their jobs on, although I cannot confirm if jobs like those are merely exceptions from your hypothesized rule or not. [[User:Trorbes|Trorbes]] 18:44, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

== pattern with military skills? ==

It seems like immigrants arrive either completely without military skills, or they have quite a few. In particular, if they have X weapon they almost always have some fighting, armor user, etc to go with it. In addition, it seems like those non-weapon military skills are always smaller or equal to the highest weapon skill. Can anyone confirm this? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 20:36, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
:nvm, prolly had labor skills turned off. Bum :/ [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:57, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

== HA! ==

Oh this is funny... so I get this blacksmith immigrant, with no blacksmithing skills o.O. His only skill? Competent Liar XD [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Trading

2010-04-17T03:56:27Z

Greep: /* late caravan */ new section

Question regarding the coloring of the items being traded, It says that items in white are are created by a source other then your fortress, while brown is fortress created goods. In my first trade with the dwarven caravan two goods I know I created, a barrel holding donkey cheese and a barrel with cow's milk were colored in white. I mean, it's not exactly an issue, but is this because they an animal derived source or what? --[[User:AdmiralDread|AdmiralDread]] 05:15, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:I believe for liquids in barrels it looks at whether you made the barrel, not the contents. Perhaps for all barrel items, I'm not sure. I personally don't trade food or drinks --[[User:Todestool|Todestool]] 14:49, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

I never had wagons with DF2010. Is it just me or is there something needed except a 3wide path to one edge? Its always there and there is never a caravan with wagons, only with traders!--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 20:32, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
: I've not had wagons in this current fort either. Think it may be because I'm in a mountain biome...--[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 10:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

It seems to be possible in DF2010 to have no trade from the dwarves. If their civilization is too small to have any leaders of note, then there will be no caravans.

:Yes, Wagons are out for now. This is most likely a bug as the access check screen is still in. Hm..or not? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 20:00, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
::They're still in the raws - see creature_equipment.txt. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

== late caravan ==

The caravan used to arrive for me at exactly mid-autumn. I got my caravan in the new version at just a few days before autumn ended. Is this the case with everyone? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:56, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Channel

2010-04-17T02:30:28Z

Greep: /* Channels and Ramps */

v0.31 Talk:Immigration

2010-04-17T01:58:33Z

Greep: /* size of waves */

==skills==
First migrant wave, 3 migrants, 1st summer. One migrant, a "stoneworker", had:
:* Competent (3) Armor User
:* Novice (1) Siege Operator
:* Competent (3) Fighter
:* Competent (3) Wrestler
:* Competent (3) Dodger
:* Expert (8) Engraver
:* Expert (8) Mason
:* Novice (1) Animal Dissector
:* Adequate* (2) Tanner ''(* the new term for the old "no label" level 2 experience slot)''
We ain't in Kansas any more!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:49, 5 April 2010 (UTC) 
Another (rerun via seasonal save, same season as above):
:* one w/ High Master (13) Furnace Operator and Talented (6) Appraiser.
:* one with Talented (6) Cheese Maker, Adequate (2) Gem Cutter and Novice Archer, Dodger, Armor User and (yes) Blowgunner.
:* and a very familiar level 2 (Adequate) Dyer.

I had one with *two* Grand Master (14) medical skills show up. (anon)
GM is 1 short of Legendary. It seems at least two things are true: 1) experience can be quite high, and 2) skills are no longer grouped by "profession", nor have to make any "sense" re matching up.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

==size of waves==
:For what it's worth, I've noticed on two separate forts that giving the first Dwarf caravan a good deal (100% profit or thereabouts) tends to produce a massive migrant wave the following spring. One fortress had 19 show, the other had ~20 (can't quite remember). These were varying in skill from the virtually-nothing to a jeweller with Grand Master Gem Cutter and Grand Master Gem Setter...

:For relatively new players like me, it might be worth noting here that you can get a migrant wave in the first spring after embark that literally doubles the size of your fortress and can prove a serious headache to manage if not anticipated. --[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 09:11, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

::And that's why there are talk pages. In 40d, it's not the trade % that matters, it's the increase in your Created Wealth - and if you had the wealth to trade, that's 100% consistent with the old paradigm. Not that things might not have changed in this version, but there are many, MANY variables in DF - which makes it that much harder to parse out. A LOT of our hard info comes from the RAW files, and from folk who can analyze the game code, but the rest comes from a combo of observation, confirmation and consensus. For now, keep an eye on Trade %, but watch Created Wealth as well. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Just had a new migrant wave turn up. 25 dwarfs - including several with Grand Master skill levels, and some with jack all - plus 8 animals. Have updated main page to reflect this. Has anyone else experienced such a large migration? (this is the third spring of the fort) --[[Special:Contributions/131.111.254.209|131.111.254.209]] 12:45, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:::25 used to be the max(iirc?) migration wave (plus children). I've had over 20, but haven't seen that many total to get any sense of what's "typical". Has anyone had OVER 25 (not including children)?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

It seem that now immigration is a lot less random and more wealth dependant. E.g. in the old version, your first year wave was entirely random and unless you never made a single item you would get exactly 8-10 sometime before spring (or not at all). Unless you never got a first immigration in which case you'd get the first mandatory one at your first new spring, which was up to 25.

Now I ALWAYS get a first summer immigration, with sizes so far from 2-8, the one with two in a fort without any craftsmen. It's pretty clear you can reliably get immigrants as long as you have enough wealth. I'm willing to wager that a fort with X wealth by summer is guaranteed an immigration, but I'd need to test further. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:55, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

== labor turned on ==
Just a hunch, but does the game actually check if a dwarf (before that wave?) is present with higher skill and only ''if not'' turns on the labor? I can't check any more, but I think it fits and it's the only reasonable explanantion I can come up with for now. That would be nifty. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 12:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:I think dwarves are just assigned a history of jobs (like NPCs), and their "latest" one is the active one, even if they're far better suited at another job. I've seen lower-skill miners and woodcutters arrive with their jobs on, although I cannot confirm if jobs like those are merely exceptions from your hypothesized rule or not. [[User:Trorbes|Trorbes]] 18:44, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

== pattern with military skills? ==

It seems like immigrants arrive either completely without military skills, or they have quite a few. In particular, if they have X weapon they almost always have some fighting, armor user, etc to go with it. In addition, it seems like those non-weapon military skills are always smaller or equal to the highest weapon skill. Can anyone confirm this? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 20:36, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

== HA! ==

Oh this is funny... so I get this blacksmith immigrant, with no blacksmithing skills o.O. His only skill? Competent Liar XD [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Immigration

2010-04-17T01:57:29Z

Greep: /* size of waves */

==skills==
First migrant wave, 3 migrants, 1st summer. One migrant, a "stoneworker", had:
:* Competent (3) Armor User
:* Novice (1) Siege Operator
:* Competent (3) Fighter
:* Competent (3) Wrestler
:* Competent (3) Dodger
:* Expert (8) Engraver
:* Expert (8) Mason
:* Novice (1) Animal Dissector
:* Adequate* (2) Tanner ''(* the new term for the old "no label" level 2 experience slot)''
We ain't in Kansas any more!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:49, 5 April 2010 (UTC) 
Another (rerun via seasonal save, same season as above):
:* one w/ High Master (13) Furnace Operator and Talented (6) Appraiser.
:* one with Talented (6) Cheese Maker, Adequate (2) Gem Cutter and Novice Archer, Dodger, Armor User and (yes) Blowgunner.
:* and a very familiar level 2 (Adequate) Dyer.

I had one with *two* Grand Master (14) medical skills show up. (anon)
GM is 1 short of Legendary. It seems at least two things are true: 1) experience can be quite high, and 2) skills are no longer grouped by "profession", nor have to make any "sense" re matching up.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

==size of waves==
:For what it's worth, I've noticed on two separate forts that giving the first Dwarf caravan a good deal (100% profit or thereabouts) tends to produce a massive migrant wave the following spring. One fortress had 19 show, the other had ~20 (can't quite remember). These were varying in skill from the virtually-nothing to a jeweller with Grand Master Gem Cutter and Grand Master Gem Setter...

:For relatively new players like me, it might be worth noting here that you can get a migrant wave in the first spring after embark that literally doubles the size of your fortress and can prove a serious headache to manage if not anticipated. --[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 09:11, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

::And that's why there are talk pages. In 40d, it's not the trade % that matters, it's the increase in your Created Wealth - and if you had the wealth to trade, that's 100% consistent with the old paradigm. Not that things might not have changed in this version, but there are many, MANY variables in DF - which makes it that much harder to parse out. A LOT of our hard info comes from the RAW files, and from folk who can analyze the game code, but the rest comes from a combo of observation, confirmation and consensus. For now, keep an eye on Trade %, but watch Created Wealth as well. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Just had a new migrant wave turn up. 25 dwarfs - including several with Grand Master skill levels, and some with jack all - plus 8 animals. Have updated main page to reflect this. Has anyone else experienced such a large migration? (this is the third spring of the fort) --[[Special:Contributions/131.111.254.209|131.111.254.209]] 12:45, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:::25 used to be the max(iirc?) migration wave (plus children). I've had over 20, but haven't seen that many total to get any sense of what's "typical". Has anyone had OVER 25 (not including children)?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

It seem that now immigration is a lot less random and more wealth dependant. E.g. in the old version, your first year wave was entirely random and unless you never made a single item you would get exactly 8-10 sometime before spring (or not at all). Unless you never got a first immigration in which case you'd get the first mandatory one at your first new spring, which was up to 25.

Now I ALWAYS get a first summer immigration, with sizes so far from 2-8, the one with two in a fort without any craftsmen. It's pretty clear you can reliably get immigrants as long as you have enough wealth. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:55, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

== labor turned on ==
Just a hunch, but does the game actually check if a dwarf (before that wave?) is present with higher skill and only ''if not'' turns on the labor? I can't check any more, but I think it fits and it's the only reasonable explanantion I can come up with for now. That would be nifty. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 12:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:I think dwarves are just assigned a history of jobs (like NPCs), and their "latest" one is the active one, even if they're far better suited at another job. I've seen lower-skill miners and woodcutters arrive with their jobs on, although I cannot confirm if jobs like those are merely exceptions from your hypothesized rule or not. [[User:Trorbes|Trorbes]] 18:44, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

== pattern with military skills? ==

It seems like immigrants arrive either completely without military skills, or they have quite a few. In particular, if they have X weapon they almost always have some fighting, armor user, etc to go with it. In addition, it seems like those non-weapon military skills are always smaller or equal to the highest weapon skill. Can anyone confirm this? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 20:36, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

== HA! ==

Oh this is funny... so I get this blacksmith immigrant, with no blacksmithing skills o.O. His only skill? Competent Liar XD [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Immigration

2010-04-17T01:56:53Z

Greep: /* size of waves */

==skills==
First migrant wave, 3 migrants, 1st summer. One migrant, a "stoneworker", had:
:* Competent (3) Armor User
:* Novice (1) Siege Operator
:* Competent (3) Fighter
:* Competent (3) Wrestler
:* Competent (3) Dodger
:* Expert (8) Engraver
:* Expert (8) Mason
:* Novice (1) Animal Dissector
:* Adequate* (2) Tanner ''(* the new term for the old "no label" level 2 experience slot)''
We ain't in Kansas any more!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:49, 5 April 2010 (UTC) 
Another (rerun via seasonal save, same season as above):
:* one w/ High Master (13) Furnace Operator and Talented (6) Appraiser.
:* one with Talented (6) Cheese Maker, Adequate (2) Gem Cutter and Novice Archer, Dodger, Armor User and (yes) Blowgunner.
:* and a very familiar level 2 (Adequate) Dyer.

I had one with *two* Grand Master (14) medical skills show up. (anon)
GM is 1 short of Legendary. It seems at least two things are true: 1) experience can be quite high, and 2) skills are no longer grouped by "profession", nor have to make any "sense" re matching up.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

==size of waves==
:For what it's worth, I've noticed on two separate forts that giving the first Dwarf caravan a good deal (100% profit or thereabouts) tends to produce a massive migrant wave the following spring. One fortress had 19 show, the other had ~20 (can't quite remember). These were varying in skill from the virtually-nothing to a jeweller with Grand Master Gem Cutter and Grand Master Gem Setter...

:For relatively new players like me, it might be worth noting here that you can get a migrant wave in the first spring after embark that literally doubles the size of your fortress and can prove a serious headache to manage if not anticipated. --[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 09:11, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

::And that's why there are talk pages. In 40d, it's not the trade % that matters, it's the increase in your Created Wealth - and if you had the wealth to trade, that's 100% consistent with the old paradigm. Not that things might not have changed in this version, but there are many, MANY variables in DF - which makes it that much harder to parse out. A LOT of our hard info comes from the RAW files, and from folk who can analyze the game code, but the rest comes from a combo of observation, confirmation and consensus. For now, keep an eye on Trade %, but watch Created Wealth as well. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Just had a new migrant wave turn up. 25 dwarfs - including several with Grand Master skill levels, and some with jack all - plus 8 animals. Have updated main page to reflect this. Has anyone else experienced such a large migration? (this is the third spring of the fort) --[[Special:Contributions/131.111.254.209|131.111.254.209]] 12:45, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:::25 used to be the max(iirc?) migration wave (plus children). I've had over 20, but haven't seen that many total to get any sense of what's "typical". Has anyone had OVER 25 (not including children)?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

It seem that now immigration is a lot less random and more wealth dependant. E.g. in the old version, your first year wave was entirely random and unless you never made a single item you would get the max of exactly 8-10 sometime before spring (or not at all). Unless you never got a first immigration in which case you'd get the first mandatory one at your first new spring, which was up to 25.

Now I ALWAYS get a first summer immigration, with sizes so far from 2-8, the one with two in a fort without any craftsmen. It's pretty clear you can reliably get immigrants as long as you have enough wealth. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:55, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

== labor turned on ==
Just a hunch, but does the game actually check if a dwarf (before that wave?) is present with higher skill and only ''if not'' turns on the labor? I can't check any more, but I think it fits and it's the only reasonable explanantion I can come up with for now. That would be nifty. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 12:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:I think dwarves are just assigned a history of jobs (like NPCs), and their "latest" one is the active one, even if they're far better suited at another job. I've seen lower-skill miners and woodcutters arrive with their jobs on, although I cannot confirm if jobs like those are merely exceptions from your hypothesized rule or not. [[User:Trorbes|Trorbes]] 18:44, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

== pattern with military skills? ==

It seems like immigrants arrive either completely without military skills, or they have quite a few. In particular, if they have X weapon they almost always have some fighting, armor user, etc to go with it. In addition, it seems like those non-weapon military skills are always smaller or equal to the highest weapon skill. Can anyone confirm this? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 20:36, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

== HA! ==

Oh this is funny... so I get this blacksmith immigrant, with no blacksmithing skills o.O. His only skill? Competent Liar XD [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Immigration

2010-04-17T01:55:50Z

Greep: /* size of waves */

==skills==
First migrant wave, 3 migrants, 1st summer. One migrant, a "stoneworker", had:
:* Competent (3) Armor User
:* Novice (1) Siege Operator
:* Competent (3) Fighter
:* Competent (3) Wrestler
:* Competent (3) Dodger
:* Expert (8) Engraver
:* Expert (8) Mason
:* Novice (1) Animal Dissector
:* Adequate* (2) Tanner ''(* the new term for the old "no label" level 2 experience slot)''
We ain't in Kansas any more!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:49, 5 April 2010 (UTC) 
Another (rerun via seasonal save, same season as above):
:* one w/ High Master (13) Furnace Operator and Talented (6) Appraiser.
:* one with Talented (6) Cheese Maker, Adequate (2) Gem Cutter and Novice Archer, Dodger, Armor User and (yes) Blowgunner.
:* and a very familiar level 2 (Adequate) Dyer.

I had one with *two* Grand Master (14) medical skills show up. (anon)
GM is 1 short of Legendary. It seems at least two things are true: 1) experience can be quite high, and 2) skills are no longer grouped by "profession", nor have to make any "sense" re matching up.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

==size of waves==
:For what it's worth, I've noticed on two separate forts that giving the first Dwarf caravan a good deal (100% profit or thereabouts) tends to produce a massive migrant wave the following spring. One fortress had 19 show, the other had ~20 (can't quite remember). These were varying in skill from the virtually-nothing to a jeweller with Grand Master Gem Cutter and Grand Master Gem Setter...

:For relatively new players like me, it might be worth noting here that you can get a migrant wave in the first spring after embark that literally doubles the size of your fortress and can prove a serious headache to manage if not anticipated. --[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 09:11, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

::And that's why there are talk pages. In 40d, it's not the trade % that matters, it's the increase in your Created Wealth - and if you had the wealth to trade, that's 100% consistent with the old paradigm. Not that things might not have changed in this version, but there are many, MANY variables in DF - which makes it that much harder to parse out. A LOT of our hard info comes from the RAW files, and from folk who can analyze the game code, but the rest comes from a combo of observation, confirmation and consensus. For now, keep an eye on Trade %, but watch Created Wealth as well. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Just had a new migrant wave turn up. 25 dwarfs - including several with Grand Master skill levels, and some with jack all - plus 8 animals. Have updated main page to reflect this. Has anyone else experienced such a large migration? (this is the third spring of the fort) --[[Special:Contributions/131.111.254.209|131.111.254.209]] 12:45, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:::25 used to be the max(iirc?) migration wave (plus children). I've had over 20, but haven't seen that many total to get any sense of what's "typical". Has anyone had OVER 25 (not including children)?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

It seem that now immigration is a lot less random and more wealth dependant. E.g. in the old version, your first wave was entirely random and unless you never made a single item you would get the max of exactly 8-10. Unless you never got a first immigration in which case you'd get the first mandatory one at your first new spring, which was up to 25.

Now I ALWAYS get a first summer immigration, with sizes so far from 2-8, the one with two in a fort without any craftsmen. It's pretty clear you can reliably get immigrants as long as you have enough wealth. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:55, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

== labor turned on ==
Just a hunch, but does the game actually check if a dwarf (before that wave?) is present with higher skill and only ''if not'' turns on the labor? I can't check any more, but I think it fits and it's the only reasonable explanantion I can come up with for now. That would be nifty. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 12:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:I think dwarves are just assigned a history of jobs (like NPCs), and their "latest" one is the active one, even if they're far better suited at another job. I've seen lower-skill miners and woodcutters arrive with their jobs on, although I cannot confirm if jobs like those are merely exceptions from your hypothesized rule or not. [[User:Trorbes|Trorbes]] 18:44, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

== pattern with military skills? ==

It seems like immigrants arrive either completely without military skills, or they have quite a few. In particular, if they have X weapon they almost always have some fighting, armor user, etc to go with it. In addition, it seems like those non-weapon military skills are always smaller or equal to the highest weapon skill. Can anyone confirm this? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 20:36, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

== HA! ==

Oh this is funny... so I get this blacksmith immigrant, with no blacksmithing skills o.O. His only skill? Competent Liar XD [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Immigration

2010-04-17T01:42:15Z

Greep: /* HA! */ new section

v0.31 Talk:Sparring

2010-04-17T01:13:27Z

Greep: /* This isn't funny, guys */

==This isn't funny, guys==
But it is [[Fun]]. How do I get them to use wooden training sword for training and metal swords for everything else? I spent months watching my swordsdwarves beating an ettin with what are essentially sticks, and when I finally get them using metal swords, one trainee sticks one in his sparring partner's stomach and twists it around! I thought they were supposed to be smart enough to switch on their own; I'm feeling pretty dumb that I can't even get them to switch on command. Help? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:21, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

:Pffft, ''you'' feel dumb, I can't even ''get them to spar'' in the current setup :/ Stupid drills and lessons [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:13, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Giant mole

2010-04-16T21:13:05Z

Greep: A giant mole has guzzled some wine[13]!

== A giant mole has guzzled some wine[13]! ==

O.O Is this a new thing or have animals always raided wine barrels? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 21:13, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Immigration

2010-04-16T20:37:57Z

Greep: /* pattern with military skills? */

v0.31 Talk:Immigration

2010-04-16T20:36:18Z

Greep: /* pattern with military skills? */ new section

User talk:CrazyMcfobo

2009-07-20T01:16:12Z

Greep: /* Miner cancels dig: Inappropriate dig square */

==[[Miner cancels dig: Inappropriate dig square]]==
You wrote:

This occurs when a miner attempts to dig at the outer-most square on the map.

This can't be the cause since you can't even designate the outmost tile for digging or channeling. Please explain how you come to that explanation. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 23:53, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Well thats what it says when I try to remove a ramp on the outer most edge.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 00:28, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Crazy's probably right, as whenever you make an up ramp, a down ramp isn't directly above, but actually up and one off. It probably bugged out. Too lazy to confirm. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:16, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Immigration

2009-07-16T23:05:45Z

Greep: /* This page contradicts itself. */

==Multiple civs==
What information do we have about the relationship between immigration rate and the number of dwarven civs? Is there info? Is there a relation? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:35, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

==Comments regarding new version==
Don't know how much of this info is still valid. For example, the line "Notably, the incredibly useful Manager requires at least twenty dwarves." is a hold-over from the previous wiki. In fact, most of the noble-related info is outdated.
I'm going to edit out anything that I ''know'' to be wrong. Get rid of the wrong stuff, and we can start getting correct stuff in instead.[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:07, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:The validation abilities of the manager still only appear after you have 20 dwarfs. But you can access the screen before that happens. Don't know if this validation has any additional effect or if the managers even work before that.--[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 16:58, 8 November 2007 (EST)

::Yes, the manager will work just fine when you have less than 20 dwarfs. He will need an office if you have more than 20 dwarfs.--[[User:Tomato|Tomato]] 16:13, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

==migration vs location on world map==
I have a nagging sense from playing a year or two in a few different areas that the number of migrants is a bit more random now. I have one decently wealthy young outpost located far from it's civilization on the map which has gotten very few immigrants in the first two years. Perhaps with groups now moving on the overall map, it is more important to be close to your civilization's area so immigrant groups arrive more quickly and are less likely to get ambushed on the way? Pure conjecture on my part and not backed by any real evidence, but an interesting idea nonetheless. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 16:15, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Well, my first throw-away fortress got gigantic immigration crowds every single season. Then I abandoned, rerolled the world, and started a new fortress. It produces worlds more wealth than my first fortress, but I have only gotten one immigration wave on the second Spring, bringing my numbers to 24. I then received my second immigration on the start of the third Spring, bringing me up to 48 dwarves. I was very worried up until I got that first wave in the spring... I almost thought I was going to have to scrap the fortress and start again. For reference, I receive elf, human, and dwarf traders. No sieges yet. I have no deaths so far. It would seem that the MAXIMUM immigration amount is 24 for one season. [[User:FFLaguna|FFLaguna]] 23:33, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

::I've gotten 25 immigrants in one wave, but one of these was a child, which may ironically go into the 'pets' category rather than 'dwarf' category. Do children have parents when they come with immigrants? -Gotthard
::: I've had a family of four come in one wave-Husband and Wife and 2 children. The children were very sad when their mother got killed by a goblin. I also had a dwarf born from parents in my first immigration wave. Has anyone every had two dwarfs marry? Not arrive married but get married at your fort. Just wondering if it's possible. --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 18:22, 17 February 2008 (EST)
::::With this latest version release (0.27.176.38a), dwarves can indeed marry each other at your fortress. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 04:19, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:::::Just to confirm, I have to confirmed marriages at my fortress (these were both from my original seven dwarves) [[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 06:01, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
::::::Uh, this has been known since, like, version 0.27.176.38a. Did you not read that comment properly, much less check the date of it? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:57, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
::Update: On the summer of my third year, I finally received some migrants! Woooo. I received about 12 immigrants. [[User:FFLaguna|FFLaguna]] 01:35, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

::Happend to me sometimes to, you have to wait for immigrants sometimes. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 16:58, 8 November 2007 (EST)

==clarification on editing ini file==
One point of conflict in this article. It states that once the immigration limit is reached normal immigration is ceased. It then encourages a method of editing the init file to curb immigration. It says to just reedit it when you want more dwarfs. In my findings when I use this tactic as soon as my limit is hit I get no more dwarfs, even after reediting the init file to a higher number.

The section where it says "A '''migrant''' is a member of a wave of immigration." is really obvious and there's no other information there. I think it should be removed, or at least made part of the general information. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]]

--[[User:Angus|Angus]] 18:17, 17 February 2008 (EST)
==Talk Page from Migrant==
This page should be merged with the page on immigration. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 01:47, 23 November 2007 (EST)
:Agreed, and done --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:28, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

I felt this edited out info is worth keeping here as hint for further investigations.

=== Immigration Triggers ===

Migrants appear in waves when the total wealth of the fortress (view by hitting 'Z') reaches:

* 5,000
* 10,000
* 100,000
* 140,000
* 165,000 (?)
* 300,000
* 340,000

== Equipment ==

(This should probably go on the Migrant talk page, but this page seems to be busier)

Will an immigrant always arrive with the necessary equipment to perform his skills? ie, will a hunter always arrive with a crossbow, armour and bolts? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:08, 8 November 2007 (EST)

:nope, sometimes you get an immigrant who doesn't have the right equipment. (Had woodworkers with carpentry and wood cutting skills withouth an axe). --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:46, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::I think it depends a bit on how multi-skilled they are: if he had been a [[woodcutter]] he would have had an axe but as he was a woodworker... well, carpenters need a workshop not an axe.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:21, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

== Combat Immigrants ==

I have yet to have any of my immigrants to show up as military types, even though I've at least produced crossbows in every fort I've run so far. Had one fort reach it's 6th year and have crafted every type of weapon available without a single dwarf showing up with combat skills. Anyone verify that this is still true? --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 04:49, 19 November 2007 (EST)

You were just unlucky. I have forged some hammers and axes and a hammer and a axe soldier showed up at my fort [[Doler 12]], 18:11 19 November 2007 (GMT+1)

:Did you maybe create a military and train dwarves in hammers and axes? --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 14:19, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:: The one and only military migrant (a Marksdwarf) I got so far came after I had someone advance to Champion level. Is this just a coincidence or have other people noticed this? --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 23:44, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:::No. I made crossbows and got marksdwarves immigrants and my best soldier was a novice crossbowman. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 06:55, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

== Immigration Rate ==

Has anyone noticed there seems to be a logarithmic curve associated with immigration? In the beginning, it doesn't matter what I do to keep my wealth down (including only building 7 beds and a small wooden 'shack' to put them above ground, and not mining out any squares) I seem to get a ton of immigrants. However, going from 1.1M to 1.4M resulted in only 5 immigrants or so the whole year. Either there might be a 'minimum' baseline for forts (and 7 isn't it, seems closer to 25-40 or so, doesn't matter what your wealth is you will grow to that) or it is logarithmic. I don't think it is related to deaths in my large fortress, I've had one elite marksdwarf die to a hydra, and 6-7 more (in 6 years) to goblins, moods, etc. I don't have the economy, perhaps this slows it down around 100? --Gotthard 11:18, 10 December 2007 (EST)
:Heh, I'm about to test that: my first winter killed six of my dwarves so we'll see how many migrants I get. I'm currently outnumbered by dogs about 10:1... unfortunately I also lost my only mare so I've got two male horses, may as well kill both of them as soon as I need a quick snack! [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:05, 11 January 2008 (EST)
:: Might as well add some info. While testing, I lost 4 of my initial dwarf. I digged a 3x3 up/down stair (mined some gold), build one bed, one armor rack. And that's it. Well I did kill some rhesus macaque and stole some food from a caravan. Yet 5 migrants still came anyway without a lot of wealth. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 15:54, 28 January 2009 (EST)
:::A bear attacked me during the first season, killing 2 dwarves, and badly wounding my leader/carpenter. After mining about 5 or 6 gem deposits, a hematite vein, a limonite vein, and a coal vein, my first immigrant wave came with 24 dwarves. Now, after a moody engraver made an artifact, I've engraved pretty much every available surface, masterpieces everywhere, and I'm afraid of how many dwarves I'll have after the next wave. The biggest problem is I don't know how many bedrooms to build ahead of time. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 14:56, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

== Military immigrants without weapons ==

I started a game with just one dwarf. The first immigration wave, in the next spring, I got a recruit as one of my immigrants. This recruit had NO military skills, and no armor or weapons. What confuses me is that I had never created any weapons. The only remotely military thing I ever made was a single leather armor. If it matters, I hadn't created hardly anything else before that point either--a bed, basic furniture, less than ten stone crafts, no cooking, and that armor. Anyone else seen this? It throws a kink into the "weapons bring military dwarves" thing. Oh, and I also have pits as a feature in this map if it matters (as yet unrevealed). --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 09:28, 12 January 2008 (EST)
: Did the recruit have any skills? Otherwise he's basically the same as a peasant. How many dwarfs were in your military at the time. That might also have been a factor. --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 23:47, 19 February 2008 (EST)

== Seasons and Immigration ==

I've had immigrants arrive in spring, summer and fall but never winter. Has anyone had immigrants arrive in winter? Or does whether immigrants arrive in winter depend on your fort's climate? [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 22:45, 29 January 2008 (EST)
: I just had a group of dwarves migrate during winter right after reading this. I am in a warm climate though. What was strange was in the following Summer I had another wave of migrants. Two in one year. --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 23:49, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::Multiple waves of immigration isn't unusual, I often get migrants in both autumn AND spring.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:19, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

I just had an immigrant wave arrive mid-summer in my first year. 6th Malachite, to be specific.--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 15:07, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

== Headline text ==

Currently, my record is 32 dwarfs, 8 kids and pets. anybody else beaten that?
--[[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 07:36, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

:Well, if you are sure of that, you should add it to the article. While most people seem to get smth like 20 to 25 ( my max being 19+pets), no one knows if ther's a limit and how high it is, so.. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:52, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

::i regularly get 24 exactly, but on a few cases ive gotten more, most being 28, with lots of kids -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 14:28, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

== Strange stuff ==

Once I had a leatherworker who came onto the map and as soon as he appeared, there was a message
'dwarf has been possessed'
Strange, has this happenedto any once? Was he possessed before he came to my Fortress? --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 16:20, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:That once happened to someone in the 2D version... tis quite simple. When a fey mood occurs, a random dwarf gets it. As it so happened, this dwarf had recently immigrated to your fortress. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:37, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::Interesting, can't say I've come across that particular bug, although I did come across an item with no name! It was just called a "Large ." --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:20, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

:::It isn't a bug. The fey immigrant, not the "Large ." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:10, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

: I seem to get this a lot - the wealth embodied by all those new clothes on the backs of the immigrants might push the fortress wealth over a level needed to trigger a strange mood, perhaps. Then it's luck of the draw whether it strikes a settled dwarf or a new immigrant. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:50, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

== Lone Dwarf ==

"A migrant has arrived."
For some reason I only got one migrant this time! Weird! --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:28, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

== Migrant caps ==

The cap is set in my init.txt file as 200, but in one of my fortresses I got well over 200 (something like 225). Is there anything that could cause this other than a straight-up glitch? --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 23:04, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

:The population cap is only checked to see if another migrant wave is allowed. It is entirely possible, often likely, that the actual number of migrants in the wave pushes the population over the value set. IIRC, pregnancies will also bypass the cap. The softness of this limit is a well known... feature... :) --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 00:13, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

:However I had mine set to 50, had a wave of immigration that pushed it from <50 to 59, and have just gotten another load of migrants. Is there some hard coded minimum population? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 21:05, 6 December 2008 (EST)

::It won't stop at exactly 50 -- you just stop getting immigrant waves after you exceed your cap.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:36, 6 December 2008 (EST)

I've got a cap of 0 and I still get bleeding migrant waves. I still get them with a cap of 1, too. Is there any way to turn them off? --[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 12:46, 3 February 2009 (EST)

== Migrant skills ==

Does the amount of workshops you have for a skill affect how many immigrants have that skill? I've had no dyer's shop for a really long time, and I notice I have only one dyer, whereas I have plenty of dwarves with every other skill. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 21:19, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
: I don't think so, because I always get hordes of dyers, cheese makers, and woodburners, even when I don't have any of the appropriate workshops. I really miss the days of getting miners, siege operators, growers, and masons.--[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 16:59, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

== "Your fortress attracted no migrants this season." ==

I'm playing a Haunted fortress on a volcano for the first time, and I got this message in my first summer. It seemed odd because I almost never get migrants during the first summer, but this is the first time that fact was announced. Is this a tweak in the new version (181.40c), which I just downloaded today, or is it because I'm in a haunted map? I got the message again in the fall. --[[User:Ookpik|Ookpik]] 17:05, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
:lots of people dying discourages immigration, as well as certain import/export/mining and immigration map factors, as far as i can tell.--[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 21:04, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
:Id say its a new feature of the game, since it didn't occur before that version.--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 15:08, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
::I noticed an extension of this- I got a message just now, all in red, saying "Migrants refused to journey to such a dangerous fortress this season." Ive been raided near constantly by goblins over the last year of this game, so maybe that influences immigrants now? .--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 13:47, 22 September 2008 (EDT)
:::I'd imagine it's due to the number of recent deaths, specifically. [[Immigration#How_can_I_curb_immigration.3F|That's covered in the article]]. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 13:11, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
:^_^ I got a new message about immigration recently. "Some migrants have decided to brave this terrifying place, knowing it may be their tomb". Seriously, I get very few deaths normally... this last season was bad because I've been building roads to try to entice the king, so I have more dwarves ranging far from the fortress. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 22:00, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::"No one even considered making the journey to such a cursed death-trap this season." Can you tell I just breached the [[Glowing pits|Fun stuff]]? 150 Dwarfs dead in less then a season.[[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:09, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
:::I don't think it takes much... losses of about 4-5 dwarfs over the course of a year resulted in my getting both of the above messages about cursed death traps and probable tombs. Maybe it was the horrific way in which they happened... the Duchess's consort was ripped limb from limb right in front of the forest by an ambushing goblin party and I lost a few other people to goblin raids where they had every single body part broken and mangled before they died (sometimes a high toughness is a bad idea... as Jame said in ''Godstalk'', it's a good idea to always have the option of dying). -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:46, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
:: I've got many time this message : "Migrants were too nervous to make the journey this season.".
I don't really know where does this come from... facts that can explain that are :

* I've been raided many times (something like 3-4 ambushes a year, and it's my 4th year) by goblin ambushers, and have been besieged by humans. But the last ambushers hadn't killed many dwarves (1 dwarf and 2 kittens last time).
* I settled on cold (north) and freezing (south, my fortress being approximatively in the north) biomes. The river in the south part of the map is always frozen, and the north murky pools freezes something like 6 months a year.
* Merchants (human, that's what caused the siege, but also -maybe- dwarves) has been killed during ambushes. I don't remember how many, but it may have scared the mountainhomes.

Also, immigration seems to be much slower than in my precedents forts (one wave per year or so, when it's not cancelled by the above message), and I noticed that I haven't received caravans since a year or so (maybe related with the above statement about merchants deaths). -[[User:Timst|Timst]] 12:58, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

I've killed off nearly every single dwarf that's immigrated to my fortress. I've got a nasty infestation of Carp (40+, with the assorted Sturgeon, Sea Lamprey, and Longnose Gar) in my river, and I've been sending the immigrants I didn't like to their deaths to whittle away at their numbers. The only immigration messages I've gotten are "Some immigrants have arrived, despite the danger," and "No immigrants have arrived this season." Odd that no one seems to be concerned about the high percentage of deaths in my immigrants any more than to say, "Well, it seems kind of dangerous there, but let's go anyway!" Then they end up being ripped limb from limb by vicious schools of Carp. Why is my fortress not yet labelled a death trap? [[User:Pariah|Pariah]] 14:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

==No immigration?==
I just played a game with no immigration. There were no dwarven civilizations nearby. How did that even happen? --[[User:Fringd|Fringd]] 22:10, 8 November 2008 (EST) (Moved from article page --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 08:23, 9 November 2008 (EST))
: You didn't start the game on an island, did you? It's not entirely impossible to find a location where there are no other civilizations near you, but the world gen certainly does a good job at making this difficult. Can you post an export or seed of your map? --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 17:01, 15 March 2009 (EST)
: You said it yourself - "There were no dwarven civilizations nearby". If, during world-gen, all of those get wiped out (by the various forces and fates that worldgen subjects civs to), then congrats - you're all alone. Islands can do it too - it's hardly unheard of. But it does deserve a comment here I suppose. (I always check all the various info via {{key|tab}} on that site finder screen - make sure I have both trading partners and enemies. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:46, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

==Immigration season ==

For me, immigration seems to follow this trend: Randomly and completely independent of wealth, a small imigration may occur during summer/autumn/winter. This immigration is always typically in the very small amount range (seems to be no greater than about 10). However, during spring, immigration will ''always'' occur and be an amount dependent on wealth [[User:Greep|Greep]] 09:40, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

== Immigrants braving the tomb ==

Just got the message with 61 deaths and ~2,070,0000 created wealth. I'm guessing wealth is based on 2,000,000 and that the message occurs whenever one gets no immigration from danger, regardless of deaths (I let my queen die, e.g. and that's probably all it took). [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:45, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

==This page contradicts itself.==

Where it says the caravan reports your wealth, than says if you are productive immigrants may come in the first summer. Something must be wrong, if there is no caravan report than your productivity would have nothing to do with it. If on the other hand it is productivity AND the caravan reports, then the guesses on other parts of the calculations for migrant waves are probably off.--[[User:Criptfeind|Criptfeind]] 16:42, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
: I went ahead and reworded a bit. Probably anyone agrees that wealth is a strong factor and I also have the impression that the dwarven caravan has an influence, but indeed neither is this proven fact AFAIK, nor is it the whole story. One might argue that word of early success (and great wealth/growth generally) gets around without caravan, but the detailed report of the caravan attracts more dwarves to come, but this is simply speculation. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:21, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
:: Well it really doesn't matter too much in any case. After lots and lots of experimention and trying out builds, the amount of wealth required to get the maximum immgrants up until 50 population is incredibly low, and the first spring/summer/august immgrations will always happen randomly (after starting the first year for about 16 tests, I actually got more summer/autumn immigration with less wealth than the very high wealth trials (120k+ by first caravan), but I'm guessing it's coincidence). Getting 20k by the first caravan and 100k by the first caravan will net the exact same immgration for a long time (~8 for non-spring, 20-30 for spring). It's when you get incredibly low amounts, like 5k or so, by doing nothing but stat training on sand walls for two straight seasons, that you even notice a change in immigration. In that case I've gotten as little as 6 immigrants on the gauranteed new year's spring immigration, but you STILL get a random chance for summer/autumn/winter immigration. Once you get about 50, though, wealth makes a solid difference, but I'm too lazy to run tests for 3 year old fortresses. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 23:05, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Sparring

2009-07-14T19:36:46Z

Greep:

== Miners using Mining skill ==

I've noticed my miners tend to get legendary in Miner rather than Wrestler while sparring. So not only do they use their picks and Mining skill in combat, they gain XP in that as well. Can anyone confirm? [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:45, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

:I read the Dwarf Fortress forums a while ago, and picks indeed use the mining skill for combat. Seems like picks are counted as spears with 40% damage reduction ( or atleast I think it was damage ) but have an insane critical rate. So a legendary miner will be able to hold of a horde of goblins all by himself, provided you can get a civilian to attack and dodge, since civilians are not inclined to attack enemies and do not use armor... --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 04:34, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::Draft 'im, I guess. I've occasionally had the fortune of having a legendary miner happen to be in the area when a goblin ambush was sprung, and they've generally done quite well for "recruits" - goblins go flying everywhere. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 16:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

While we're on the subject, do miners hit Hero status if drafted to fight with their pick? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:20, 19 December 2008 (EST)
:I can confirm to you that they do not. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:55, 19 December 2008 (EST)

==Speed of training in combat and in sparring==

One thing I've noticed is that my crossbow dwarves seem to gain experience quicker in combat than in target practice at the archery range. Whilst this might be down to availability of ammunition, maybe experience from sparring isn't worth as much as from the real thing, which would make sense. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 11:22, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

:It could also be that in combat, the marksdwarves are getting armor/shield user skill on top of their marksdwarf skill, which target practice doesn't do anything for --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:34, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

::They get it faster in combat. Perhaps by an order of magnitude. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:42, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

:::...yeah, that'd do it. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 16:57, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::I've witnessed something similar to this with recruits that are unarmed. What had happened was the recruits went into combat with some ambushers and jumped a few levels in wrestling fairly quickly. While Recruits who didn't fight but only spared took about a season to get the same skill in wrestling. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 15:41, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

== Training when and with who ==

Would it be better to train everyone at different times?
People won't get as injured when sparring with someone with around equal attributes...I think.
And to do that you'll need to deactivate or put on duty those with high strength in case thats something that you can do to prevent injury. Or put those who are strong defensively with those who need training. Also, what I thought, since every job might develop some attributes slower than sparring or pumping, is to put them through training when their skills and use are not as needed and when they are needed again, they would be more efficient.
Is that painfully obvious to everyone else?
Something for everyone to figure out for themselves?
...yeah.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 08:25, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

== Danger ==

I once had a dorf who arrived in a migrnat wave and was and Axedwarf. As soon as he started sparring he cut of some guys head. Is there a way to change this? [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 10:52, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

:Undraft him. Give him a worse weapon. Give the other guys armour. Don't put him on sparring. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 02:36, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

::Heh, same question but my dorf is a swordsdwarf... the only one in the place with a steel sword and steel armour... my poor conscripts don't stand a chance with their leather armour and wooden shields apparently. Oh well at least he didn't kill my overly fertile recruit mayor (it seems she must be popular, maybe that explains all the babies she keeps having)...
::My thought had been to use my first real millitary dwarf as the squad leader but what kind of NCO goes around killing the troops during training![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:18, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Haven't dealt with a PO'd SGM have ya? :P --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:19, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Dwarven soldiers never intentionally kill one another during training. However, imagine if during the modern world, karate teachers taught their students sword technique by using steel weapons. You'd have a lot of dead students there, too. In this sense DF is quite realistic; the problem is that the game doesn't yet allow dwarves to use non-lethal practice weapons instead, short of making players jump through hoops. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:57, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

:I always put my trainees into a separate squad from anyone that hasn't undergone my training and equipping regime. Typically eliminates accidents like these, and helps keep my troops uniform, both in skill and equipment. Infact, they tend to stay in my trainee squad until they hit Elite level. Those that come pre-trained/equipped are usually placed into a 2nd squad and used as active guards. My civilian populace is placed into a 3rd squad lead by my favored dwarf.
:Squad 1 is almost always drafted and off duty, Squad Two is always on duty and either chasing down cretins or standing guard at my entrance for thieves and the like. Third Squad rarely is activated except in times of siege as an emergency retreat measure to force them to evacuate to behind the barracks. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:19, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

== Metal Bolts + Target Practice ==

"metal bolts will not be wasted on target practice."

I'm not sure if this is true in the latest version - I think target practice uses the least valuable of all bolts available. In my current fortress I witnessed marksdwarves using no-adjective iron bolts for target practice when masterpiece bone bolts (most of them with extra adornment) were the other available ones. --[[User:Felix the Cat|Felix the Cat]] 23:17, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

== Sparring Injuries From Furniture ==

I noticed that my soldiers were receiving a lot of brain and spinal injuries when sparring in a bedroom barracks. They were all wrestling, and using full bronze plate and bronze shields. The room layout looked like this:

####+####
#.......#
#.B.B.B.#
#.......#
+.B.B.B.+
#.......#
#.B.B.B.#
#.......#
####+####

Once I moved them to an empty barracks defined from a weapon rack, there were no more brain/spine injuries until they became legendary wrestlers/shield users and I switched them to weapon training. A single dwarf received a spinal injury afterwards, but not before achieving "great macedwarf" status. The others (9 of them) trained up to legendary weapon user status without incident.

Can anyone else verify that the presence of furniture in barracks increases the rate of sparring injuries? If so, this should be added to the artcle. --[[User:Chris Acheson|Chris Acheson]] 12:37, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

:I haven't witnessed this. My barracks is littered with beds, and only one of my dwarves got a brain injury (light gray) while training up to champion (first marksdwarf, then wrestling, then weapons). I didn't even have them in especially good armor at first. Perhaps you just got unlucky.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:16, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

== Fortress guard ==

I know that the Fortress and Royal guards spar with great zeal, but will they use archery ranges if assigned crossbows? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 11:26, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
:Turns out yes, but not consistently. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 12:12, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
::Can anyone provide some additional experiences with guards being assigned crossbows? In fort A, they practiced until they ran out of bolts and then proceeded to spar with the crossbows in melee; in fort B, they practiced like once a month and never sparred in melee. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:35, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
:::As far as I can tell with my current batch of dwarves, the less skill they have the more often they will opt to use the archery targets rather than spar in the barracks. Not sure why, but some dwarves just do not like using archery targets it seems, even when they have bolts in their quivers. Here's a couple methods I've found work well in getting my dwarves back to the archery targets:
:::* Forbid all metal bolts
:::* Set weapon to unarmed, armor to clothes, and shield to none, then give crossbows back
:::* Dump/forbid all stacks of bolts smaller than 5 big
:::* Set them to carry no food/water (Make sure they drop waterskin/backpack)
:::* Ensure there are no sparring partners available (no Barracks or off duty Wrestlers/Hammerdwarves works)
:::--[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 16:19, 4 February 2009 (EST)

== Speed of Training while Sparring ==

I have noticed something abnormal between dwarves that train.

I Drafted 8 or so dwarves at roughly the same time. I have them all off duty and in their own individual squads right now since all of them being in a squad didn't seem to make a difference.

What I'm noticing is that some Dwarves shoot up in wrestling skill tremendously fast, almost unrealistically. While some Dwarves train so slowly that while I have Dwarves at Champion level others are still only proficient wrestlers. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 18:07, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

I noticed it as well --[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 19:37, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:I had a super-legendary miner go from Dabbling to Great wrestler tussling with just a single zombie Giant Rat. Then again, the fight took what seemed like several in-game days, during which the miner got pretty badly injured before he finally finished the rat off. I had drafted him to ensure that he would fight back properly... and because he hit 'Great', he became a [[Hero]] and would never work again, despite being my best miner... and mayor. And manager. And broker. Heh.

:Where sparring dwarves are concerned, I've found that sometimes while changing armor they fail to drop the items they're taking off, and extra stuff in the hands causes them to be unable to use their weapon or shield. They still spar, but apparently as wrestlers.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:39, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:Oh, it just occurred to me. If they get even a minor brain, neck, or spine injury, they'll never heal, and never spar again. Are the ones that aren't advancing injured?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:19, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

== Happy Thoughts from Killing a Sparring Partner ==

One of my dwarves accidentally killed another in a sparring session, but received a happy thought. His profile says he took joy in slaughter lately, and this is his only kill. The other dwarf didn't die instantly, he suffocated. Is this something isolated? - [[User:Ducky|Ducky]] 15:02, 30 November 2008 (EST)
:I've experienced something similar. In my case the dwarf who killed his sparring partner (a friend) received a happy thought for taking joy in slaughter, but an unhappy thought from losing said friend to tragedy. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 16:26, 4 February 2009 (EST)

== Changing wrestler occupation ==

It seems impossible to make a crossbow dwarf from elite/hero wrestler. They will pick up crossbows, but not bolts, and will not practice at shooting range. This is VERY sad. A bug? --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 20:04, 9 March 2009 (EDT)

:Its likely they are holding something they grabbed while wrestling. My champion wrestlers will practice at the shooting range, just very rarely, even when I have in excess of 2000 miscellaneous bolts. Most of the time after they fire a stack of bolts they get grabbed by another soldier/guard to go sparring before they get a chance to grab more bolts. Long term soldiers also get the life doesn't mean much to them anymore thought, which I'm assuming makes them less motivated. A couple of the other discussion topics on this page cover getting dwarves back to the archery targets. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 04:58, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

I can both confirm and deny Alpha's observation at the same time. ;) I have one dwarf I trained to legendary in wrestling, then gave him a bow and set him up an archery range, and he's a legendary marksdwarf now, no problem. I have two others I tried the same thing on, and they will neither pick up bolts nor use the range — hell, they continue to '''spar''' even, and are pretty much set to be changed into hammerdwarves, given how much they've been bashing their sparring partners with their ammo-less crossbows. (Good thing I use heavy armour on my marksdwarves, or they'd probably be paste by now from the unanticipated continued sparring.)

Interestingly, I also had two legendary wrestlers / novice axedwarves who refused to do much sparring at all; all their axedwarf skill came from manually taking them out into the desert and hunting the local wildlife. I just assigned them the exact same bows my no-shooting bow trainees were using, and they're now happily carrying steel bolts in their quiver and using bone ones at the archery range. Nobody has any injuries, so it's not unhealed spinal injuries or anything. Best guess is, this is just some sort of bug where they get stuck in "want to melee / spar" or "want to shoot / practice" mode and refuse to do the other one. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 21:12, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

== Wrasslin' ==

I had some instances of axedwarves and wrestlers sparring. After a few minutes, the axedwarves became wrestlers, even though they were using axes. How does this work?

:The wrestlers grapple with the axedwarves, the axedwarves have to grapple back, they get wrestling experience. This tends to build experience in wrestling faster than hitting stuff with weapons trains weapon skills, so their wrestler skill outstrips their axe skill.

== Spine, neck.. ==
Since those are the most annoying wounds (and frankly, those they "prefer" to get from wrestling), what armor parts do protect those? helm? mail? --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 00:03, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

:If I remember correctly, shields/bucklers are checked first to see if they block. Then I suppose helms would protect the brain/neck and plate/chain would protect the spine. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 09:50, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

== Armor User Helps Prevent sparring injuries? ==

The armor user skill page indicates armor user only deals with encumbrance. Is this the case? If so, the point that it reduces sparring injuries should be removed [[User:Greep|Greep]] 19:36, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Magma

2009-07-14T16:58:49Z

Greep: /* Digging into cap */

Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the [[Magma smelter]] article, which state that using [[Fire-safe materials]] is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:Magmaproof is not the same as fireproof. Buildings that work WITH magma need to be fireproof. Rocks and iron are fireproof. Wood is not. Buildings that are going IN the magma, such as floodgates, their mechanisms, and pumps need to be magmaproof materials such as steel and bauxite. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 01:51, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
: Yes, dwarves seem to be able to swim through magma unharmed when temperature is off(I've had them shoved in during a fight, not 100% sure), but they'll violently resist this, even without danger. Water will still steam, it seems to be hard coded. --[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 16:50, 12 November 2008 (EST)

Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_rocks#Naming this article] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock#Mineralogical_classification this site] list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?
:It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.
::So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)

On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--[[User:SL|SL]] 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)
::I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this "cap", I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)
:::Turning on the "see magma pools and pipes" option in the init file would be a great help for trouble shooting on this topic.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:44, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Magmapool/pipe section ==
Zara, you recently added some info about all magma pipes having cliffs over them -- this is incorrect. I've played a very large number of magma pipe maps, and very often they are completely exposed to the air. I've also removed the line about them being "as small as two z-levels!", because it needs better phrasing. I may fix it later. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 22:39, 26 February 2008 (EST)

:in the meantime I had figured that out, too. But what is the difference between a magma pipe and a volcano, then? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Zara|Zara]]

::As far as I know, the distinction comes down to whether it reaches the surface. If so, some would then call it a volcano rather than a magma pipe. I believe that magma pipes which reach the surface (or volcanoes, if you will) are the only ones which actually show up on the embark map, while underground magma pipes and magma pools do not (unless you use the Regional Prospector tool). --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 23:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

:::No, similar to Moonanibe,I've played on several maps where, on the embark screen, the magma pipe was only visible using regional prospector. However, as soon as I took a look at the place, I found the magma partly (or completely) exposed on the surface. [[User:Zara|Zara]] 01:59, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
::::Magma pipes are not 'necessarily' part of a mountain, while volcanoes make a mountain around them during world gen. Comes down to a number game. Volcanoes have a magma number of 100, while pipes have a number between 99 and some lower value.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:48, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Added new section ==
I added a section regarding "Built objects vs. Magma". I think it's absolutely vital we establish what does and doesn't melt in magma, in a clean list. There are quite a few things that could be added to that list (Constructed floors for one) so please, do add to it. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 17:31, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:Have you tested the bridges? I conjecture that all buildings and constructions without mechanisms are perfectly fine with magma contact. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:: The bridges part was cut from another section of the article and moved in there. Since it was already here, I assumed it was accurate. I haven't actually checked myself. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 16:54, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:I will verify bridges one way or the other. I'm pretty sure they cant melt, though. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:03, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::they dont melt, as they arent actually within the magma. that was copied over from the 2d wiki and nobody removed it -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 22:29, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::: I noticed you removed the line about bridges. It seems silly not to mention them at all, so I've written up a line about them working no matter what the material and stuck it in. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 23:12, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::::yea they should definately be mentioned, wasnt thinking when i removed it completely(recovering from a bad cold and brain is still a bit foggy) -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 00:49, 20 February 2008 (EST)
Tested. Non-magmaiproof bridges -over- magma are fine. Non-magma-proof submerged in magma will melt. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:39, 21 February 2008 (EST)
: Interesting. I'll edit the article to say as much. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 15:30, 21 February 2008 (EST)
This is what I've found: ANY Construction is safe from magma (even wooden ones. Walls, stairs, fortifications, etc). Any building is unaffected by magma if the magma doesn't occupy the same tile as the building. Example: a door is safe if it's closed, even if it's made of non-safe rock or wood. If you lock it open with a mechanism, or if it's jammed, then the magma interacts with the components, burning/melting them if they can't stand the heat. A pump made of wood or any other material is also safe, as long as the magma doesn't flow *over* it. Since the "out" side acts as a wall, if it's correctly isolated from the magma it won't get damaged and will pump the magma without any trouble. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 01:41, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Anyone clear on Vertical Bars in magma? I am attempting to keep imps and such from moving through my magma feeding tunnel and was curious if anyone had any good solutions to this problem. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 16:23, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

:I just use a bauxite wall grate, it works fine for me. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:02, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
:: Ah, thank you, I just wanted to be sure they didn't melt regardless --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 02:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 
I made a few tests with magma and buildings/constructions and I can confirm some known results and I can provide a few new aspects. Constructions (b->C) are magma safe (walls, floors, stairs, others not tested). No matter what the material is.
*<s>bridges build with bauxite *rocks* are not magma safe (bauxite mechanism or not)</s>
*bridges build with bauxite *blocks* are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
*bridges build with steel bars are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
Open test: bridge with blocks considered as not magma safe.
 [[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:14, 11 July 2008 (EDT)
::I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The bridges build with bauxite rocks were previously connected with a lever. Unfortunately the mechanism is not removed from the bridge when you remove the lever. Well, at least it seems that the rules for magma safe materials are valid for bridges. With one exception: raised bridges can contain any mechanism, only when magma flows over the bridge it is destroyed.--[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 13:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== Replenishing Magma ==

Since magma replenishes now, I've rewritten that snippet from the article. If I've missed something(a kind of magma not regenerating, though this always worked for me on several maps), feel free to correct things. --[[User:Romantic Warrior|Romantic Warrior]] 15:47, 18 February 2008 (EST).

I have a very good feeling that the replenishing magma is just "pressurized" magma. I haven't tested fully, but i have poured water over a magma pipe and re-mined it, and in that case the magma flow was upwards. --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 03:49, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Temperature ==

Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:I'm not sure how the temperature calculations are done, but I CAN tell you that magma will melt nearby ice. Check out http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-153-meltingwateronglacier to see it in action. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 15:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)

::It should be a flow, just like the magma itself. One of the other visible results is warm stone. The same can probably be said for water and damp stone as well. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)

::It also makes sure water stays heated; a friend of mine keeps magma under a few of his natural pools to make sure they stay thawed during the cold winter months (all but the middle summer month!) --Gotthard 17:45, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

==Flow?==

I have a magma pipe (pit) in my current fortress... I breached the pipe from the lowest level because of the diagonal bug when I discovered it, and it filled some long exploratory shafts. Since then, the top magma layer is down to 5/7 and 6/7 running all over the surface. After a little while, it's easy to see that magma act curiously: instead of bouncing from wall to wall like real water physics, in my game the 5/7 (the flow) seems to all move in the same direction at the same time. The direction change often, and seem to change randomly. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)

There is another way to stop a flow of magma that's moving through a tunnel. You can go one z-level higher, dig to a spot above the magma-filled tunnel, then build a channel above where the magma is flowing and assign it as a Pond Zone. So long as you have buckets and a viable Water Source zone, a dwarf will come along and drop water on the magma, instantly turning it into obsidian and blocking the tunnel. --[[User:Stromko]] January 6th, 2007
: I've tried this - it rarely works. Usually you just destroy 1/7 of the magma per bucket, along with the water from the bucket, and nothing turns to obsidian. You need to hit it with larger quantities of water at once to get reliable results. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:35, 6 January 2008 (EST)
::Actually, you have to hit it from two levels up. Just one won't do anything.--[[User:Demosthenes|Demosthenes]] 17:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)

I have added a section to the main page on magma flow, based on frequent confusion in the forums, and on some investigations I have been making into the behavior of magma when pumped (I'm not the first to discover this behavior, but I did go to a fair degree of effort to test how it behaves in differing circumstances) --[[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] 21:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
:Now THAT is how you make a diagram! Awesome. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:20, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

==Criteria for Magma Buildings==

Is there a special condition that must be met before Magma Smelters/Forges/Furnaces and so on will appear on the build menus? I have a magma pit and some channels over it so that I can access it for magma, but I cannot build any magma-using buildings. - [[User:Confused Rat|Confused Rat]]

:Magma furnaces and forges need a hole somewhere on the ground where they are built. This is to allow the furnace/forge to take the heat from the magma as they are used. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:43, 25 January 2008 (EST)

:What he means is that the magma furnaces don't even appear in the build menu. This is because you haven't discovered magma through natural means. The only way this can happen is if you used reveal to find the magma. You'll have to use the [[Utilities#Enable_Magma_Buildings|Enable Magma Buildings]] utility to make them appear. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:03, 25 January 2008 (EST)

:Reclaimed fortresses may be bugged. If you reclaimed you fortress you probably can't do anything with it without 3rd party programs (like one mentioned above). Magma in [[pit]]s isn't enough to allow magma buildings. You need to discover true magma pipe and get pop-up informing about this. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

:I had a similar problem in a human settlement, so I do not know if the bug applies there, too... but there IS a chance I abandoned and reclaimed at one point, so it could just be that --[[User:Zatnik|Zatnik]] 05:02, 7 January 2009 (EST)

== Infinity Generators? ==

Because magma is currently a finite resource, would it be a good idea to add how to make an infinity generator as workarround untill Toady gives us some more of the stuff?—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Highlord Asehujiko|Highlord Asehujiko]] ([[User talk:Highlord Asehujiko|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Highlord Asehujiko|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
:Not on the main article as it would easily be considered cheating. In here, or the [[cheating]] article itself would be fine, the latter probably more appropriate as it could be applied to water as well for those scorching maps. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:16, 27 January 2008 (EST)
::Magma regenerates in most cases, which pretty much means it's infinite. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Lava vs. Magma ==

I hadn't noticed it until just now, but both Lava and Magma occur in the game. I haven't seen this fact referenced in the wiki. Magma is a fluid which occurs in Magma Pipes, and in areas directly connected to Magma Pipes. Lava appears to occur in disconnected areas. I'm not sure what happens if you reconnect. If you use {{k|k}} to view a square, you'll see either Magma or Lava depths given. I'm not clear on what difference there is between the two fluids. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

:There is none, just the name. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:30, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::both in df, and irl, molten rock in open air is called lava, while subterranean is called magma -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:40, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::: Ah, so magma which is ''Outside'' is lava. Cool. I guess my disjoint areas are all also outside :) I suppose we ought to mention this somewhere on the page? --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 19:19, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

== Magma vs puppy? ==

I have encountered an interesting glitch. I have 2 puppies and a kitten in magma that aren't dying, and yes I have temperature setting on. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-570-magmavspuppy

For those interested in trying to recreate it, I believe it has to do with designating the animal to slaughter while trying to throw it into a pit. A few of my dwarves were having pathing errors to try and slaughter them when I noticed the 3 invulnerable pests. After saving and reloading, the critters were insta-gibbed.
--[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 04:59, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Chasm Confusion ==

"The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores."

Magma, at least in my experience, has always been surrounded only by Obsidian, as a result you cannot get any kind of insight as to the surrounding minerals, this differs from a chasm where the veins coming up to a chasm are directly reflected in the walls.

--[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 04:18, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:volcanoes and magmapipes can form large "chasms" above them, though it depends on how rocky the map is
:Confirmed, various minerals and gems were visible in the 'crater' area two levels above the magma in my magma pipe. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:05, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== gruesome accident in older 2d version ==

beware wooden floodgates
not only do they burn(as I planned)
but i scattered magma all around the room
it rolled around quickly in all directions, flooding the tunnels, burning miners, smelters, war dogs and puppies alike without remorse.
it has thus far filled the entire message screen with " someone" or "something" has burned to death
it appears to gain mass from creeping down hallways! oh god...
60 deaths, at least 25 dwarves and 15 puppies22:08, 28 July 2008 (EDT)[[User:Eerr|Eerr]]

== Magma cooling? ==

Ive noticed at a 1/7 depth, the magma seems to cool and go away. v40d --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:28, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

: That is probably what the author meant by "Magma that is only 1 deep "evaporates" over time." [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 19:58, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

== Mechanisms on Non-Floodgates ==

I want to power my underground smelting operations with magma, so I'm digging a tunnel into the side of a magma pipe. I don't want magma creatures coming in that way, so I need a set of [[bars]] across it. However, once I set up the bars, I need to open them to get a miner past and cut the last bit of stone and open the tunnel to the magma. I was going to just attach the bars to a level, but the question of what to use for the [[mechanism]] is bugging me. I don't want to waste my precious imported [[Bauxite]] on the mechanism, and once it closes behind the miner it never need to open again so it's fine it it melts, but not if the melting mechanism will cause the bars to deconstruct! Anyone know what happens to things other than floodgates when their mechanisms get melted off?
--17:11, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

: Or you could make your life much simpler with [[Fortification]]s. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

:: How? [[Fortification]]s allow liquid to pass through and stop creatures, yes, but you can't open them ''at all''. How am I supposed to get my dwarf back after he digs the last square of the channel if there's a fortification blocking the way?--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 15:49, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I used a fortification to keep fire imps out of my magma channel; I dug a stairway totally unconnected to the rest of my fortress to a spot adjacent to the top layer of the magma pipe, then dug a tunnel from within the fortress to within one tile of the stairway. I fortified the tile that separated the two, then dug a channel (from outside) that let the magma flow against the "outside" face of the fortification. The magma flowed through the fortification and into the "inside" tunnel.

:::For good measure, in case I want to drain the inside tunnel at some point, I put an s-turn in the inside tunnel and situated a nickel/bauxite floodgate around the corner, out of sight of the fortification.

:::Viewed from above, basically it looks like this:

~============
~~=====..X...
~~=====.=====
~~=<#...=====
~~===========
~============

~ - Magma pipe
= - Unmined tile (wall)
. - Mined tile (channel)
< - Stairway
# - Fortification
X - Floodgate

:::The last step here is to remove the tile between the magma and the stairway by digging a channel from one z-level up.
:::--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Why do you need a stairway? Couldn't you have just put the fortification on the tile where you have the stairway now? I'm also not sure why you need a turn as opposed to having the floodgate directly in line; i.e. {{qd|cols=7|~|`|╬|{{qd/ch{{!}}X{{!}}888|ccc}}|.|.|.}}
::::[[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:55, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::I believe you can't create a fortification from above, though I could be wrong. It doesn't cost anything to dig one extra z-level down to get yourself a tile with an open face front and back which fortifies up nicely. Also, I put the kink in the tunnel just to be paranoid -- I don't want things shooting fireballs down it. I'm not sure if a fireball can destroy a floodgate. Again, it didn't cost me anything to make it a touch more elaborate.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

::::Well, if I dug in from above, I could just use a non-retracting set of bars. Fortifications allow liquid to flow, but they slow it down. But I'm not digging at the top level of the pipe. I suppose I could just use a sacrificial non-magma-safe floodgate, set up the bars behind it, and then open it and let it melt.
::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:20, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

== Magma Ate My Wall ==
While digging my channel to a magma pipe, I came across a vein of Lignite which ran perpendicular to my channel. I mined it out, hauled the lignite over to my fortress, and then built some walls over the side passages. It's now less than a year later, and one of those wall-units is missing. Unless there's some way a fire imp or other magma creature can destroy walls, the magma must have melted the wall. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 07:12, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:Wasn't that wall a Lignite wall ? It may have burnt, then. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:46, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:Yes, it sounds like it was a liginite wall. Magma will ignite coke-bearing rock, this has been the case for a long time. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:56, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:: No, the wall was built from rock salt. All the lignite was hauled away, and as an economic stone, not a material choice I could have made by accident. The floor is still lignite though. Think that may have been a factor? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:58, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::That's possible, but I find it unlikely. Also, I misinterpreted what you meant by 'built a wall', didn't realize it was a construction. I thought it was a smoothed rock face. It's been a persisting question (at least in #df on synIRC) if magma will melt constructions not made of bauxite. You may have just answered that for us. Perhaps you could test by letting magma into a 5x5 room with one natural rock pillar in the middle, and a wall construction of the same type of stone? That'd answer the question once and for all, I think. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:11, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::I've had magma against some of my constructed walls for years and years without damage. A good thing too, I've got quarters on the other side! They're almost certainly basalt. I wouldn't rule out the vanishing wall being caused by a burning floor; lignite can burn for years before vanishing. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:14, 5 November 2008 (EST)
::::Interesting. It was probably the liginite floor, then, but that begs the question of how a burning floor could consume a wall; stone should be fire-safe. A really interesting situation, to be sure. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::Also -- as for 'not a material choice I could have made by accident', I've found my masons will happily convert expensive imported ores and flux into blocks if they decide your depot's closer than the nearest basalt. And once anything's blocked, it's useless but for constructions. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:39, 5 November 2008 (EST)

::::: @Corona: That's for a mason's workshop, though. When you build walls, you choose the specific rocks to build from. Although, I have to say that I've never had a mason use a rock from the restricted list.
::::: For clarity, here's an image capture. The east-west shaft was my original tunnel towards the magma pipe. Every mined-out tile north or south of that shaft was Lignite. However, the opening just below the cursor, where my missing wall is supposed to be, is listed as Rock Salt as well. This is because dwarves kept building that section of wall from the wrong side, and I had to deconstruct it and put it back up several times -- which kills our "burning lignite floor" theory. Hrm.....now that I think about it, I can't be sure that I did build that wall in the end. I can't remember if a dwarf ever built it from the correct side. I'll let you know if another wall section disappears.
[[Image:romeofalling1.GIF]]

--[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:54, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== Disambiguation ==

I see the term ''magma pipe'' and ''magma vent'' being used interchangeably. Do these terms mean the same thing? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:25, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:Basically, yes. Magma vents, however, are visible from the surface, whereas magma pipes are not. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:26, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Magma Vs. Sand ==

In a failed experiment with wooden screw pumps with magma proof blocks, I have discovered something horrible and intriguing. Magma/lava can burn it's way through sand, so now I have an above ground magma cistern half flooding back into the magma pipe I filled it from, and half into my underground workshops through 2 z-levels of sand flooring. I have picture proof too, but I have no idea how to upload pictures from my laptop to a wiki. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:"Upload file", toolbox, left side of this page.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Ah, thanks. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Do you mean it goes down z-levels, or does it just move across the sand? magma can normally move across anything except water, I think. --[[User:Destor|Destor]] 14:41, 11 November 2008 (EST)
:Vertically, through z-levels. It created a hole that wasn't there before through a sand floor, into my main hallway, and then through the floor there into my workshops and stockpiles. From there, it simply followed the path of least resistance down the stairs and into the living quarters (not shown). The magma seems to only tunnel through floor tiles that have no wall tile below them, which is understandable but I've never had this happen before. Though, admittedly I have never tried to create a lava cistern on top of sand before. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)
<gallery>
Image:DF-0.JPG|Above ground (sorry for large size despite jpeg compression)
Image:DF-1.JPG|1 z-level down (main hallway)
Image:DF-2.JPG|2 z-levels down (workshops and rock, bar, and wood stockpiles)
</gallery>

== Regarding Boatmurdered ==

I have this intense desire to flood the world in magma. (yes, I'm playing the 2D Dwarf Fortress. Sue me.) How did they get the magma onto the surface? Last I checked, pumps don't exist, sooo... --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 02:45, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:Channels and aqueducts... They'll transport any liquid anywhere. And bridges too!--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]]
::But magma's on the "Z-level" below. How's it supposed to get on the actual level of the elephants? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:50, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:::You're still thinking in 3D. Magma is "in" the tiles where the river is, and will be in the tiles where you dig a channel, and you want to get it in the tiles where the elephants are, by digging a channel from the magma river to the outside and "releasing" it from the channel using a floodgate. The miner who digs the part of the channel that connects it to the magma river itself might get killed, since they always stood ''in'' the channel square while digging it in the 2D version. Put a floodgate just beyond it before digging it out so you can shut off the flow, since you will make mistakes.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:36, 28 November 2008 (EST)
::::Yes, I realize I'm thinking in 3D. Exactly how does the magma get out of the channel and onto the ground? Because last I checked, fluids didn't do that naturally. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:44, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:::::That's just the way the 2D version works. Channel next to liquid = liquid now in channel. Tile at end of channel not floodgate (or other liquid stopper) = liquid now on ground. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:47, 28 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Read [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Channel#Game_mechanics Channel] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Irrigation#Controlled_flooding Irrigation] on the archive wiki. You have to play with channels and floodgates for a bit before it all makes sense, though. The 2D version tended to get real kludgy when it came to fluids. Try to get a farm going to understand the basics of the 2D channels, floodgates, and fluids.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:07, 28 November 2008 (EST)

== No little errors ==

I just made a discovery. There is nothing like small error in the terms of magma engineering. After attempting to make my lava moat, I accidentally dug channel one tile longer, than it should be. At first, it went good. But then, magma flowed over my wall and flooded entire fortress. Remember - no little errors. [[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 12:19, 30 November 2008 (EST)

== Export the local map ==

"...you can try exporting the local map of the world which can be much more quickly searched for the distinctive red ≈ symbol. " How does one do that? --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 02:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)
:Right after generating your world, there is an option to export the map. I think it maps to 'p' but I can't swear to it now. I don't know if there is a way to do it at a time other than right after generation. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:45, 4 December 2008 (EST)
::Legends screen lets you export maps as well, but they don't have the special features enabled, even with all applicable options enabled. Probably on the todo list 'somewhere', but can't imagine it's even semi-important. So you'll have to rely on worldgen exports. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::I thought it was just the region map you can export, not the local map, and a red ≈ just means desert and/or red sand on that map. You can see named volcanoes on it though -- red ^s.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:16, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::It's mapped to "P". Capital. [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 21:01, 12 February 2009 (EST)

== Temperature setting ==

While magma will not cause fires while the temperature is turned off in the init file, it seems the game remembers at least some of the fires it would have caused. I was playing with temperature off and tunneled into magma rather carelessly, knowing it wouldn't hurt me, later, when I turned the temperature on in that game, the dwarves that came into contact with the magma were immediately set on fire. This was about a year later in game. I checked back several times by quitting without saving, every time I turned the temperature on, those same dwarves caught fire, with the temperature off, there was no indication of fire what so ever.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 23:36, 23 January 2009 (EST)

:Oh wow, I can imagine tons of uses for that, especially when toady makes it so that you can go and raid the goblins... Kamikaze dwarves, anyone? Well, I guess it should be in the article, but it would be nice to do more testing first. I think that if a dwarf falls in water, he stops burning. So if you could find out if they, after being put out with temperature off, still lit up next time we could put it in. Do more research, I would but I have had trouble with DF lately, it has been mad slow.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 00:01, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::Well, temperatures are flows, and items remember how warm they are, so presumably the dwarves that burst into flames are still at a ridiculous temperature and haven't cooled down. That, or the coating of magma on their bodies is causing them to burn...--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 00:36, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::: It has got to be the coating, as you say. Turning off the tempurature means that they should STOP remembering. The flows should not be calculated, and the items should have nothing to remember. Thats why turning it off speeds up the game, especially in extreme environs or around magma. There was, however, nothing listed that I could find, so this "magma coating" is invisible to the interface. It should also be noted that it was apparently the dwarves who caught fire first, and their burning flesh that apparently set their clothes on fire moments later.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 12:29, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::::Check specifically for magma splatters on the dwarfs in question. I wouldn't be surprised if they picked them up, similar to when creatures get doused in water. The liquid tends to stick all over them, and rarely goes away on it's own. Best bet to preserve them would be to construct a waterfall-shower, and hope it washes away the magma spatter, rather than creating obsidian ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:11, 25 January 2009 (EST)
:::::Yer, looks like the dawrfs got their Pigtail socks a coating of magma. Then magma goes boom.--[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 08:08, 19 February 2009 (EST)

==Site finder==

Will magma Pipes always show up on the local map? Because my site finder keeps throwing up sites with no visible magma on the local map. --[[User:ArneHD|ArneHD]] 17:09, 12 February 2009 (EST)

:No, magma pipes don't always reach the surface, and therefore won't always show up on the embark map. You can find out it's actual location by taking a guess based off of what stone layers are shown where in the embark map, or you can go to your init.txt and change SHOW_EMBARK_M_PIPE to ALWAYS. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 17:29, 12 February 2009 (EST)

== Magma-swimming Baby ==

For some reason, someone has dropped their baby into the magma. The strange thing is, it aint burning up. Its lying there, and apparently has done so for a long time. Its hungry and thirsty. --[[User:Myroc|Myroc]] 15:26, 21 February 2009 (EST)
:I once had a mother get trapped behind a magma bulkhead with her baby. She died promptly. The baby just sorta sat in the magma flow for about a year before it died too. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:40, 21 February 2009 (EST)

== Spawn Distance For Creatures? ==

How far from the magma pipe can fire snakes (and imps, if they spawn) appear? Also, are they limited to spawning near the magma pipe itself, or ANY magma (i.e., a magma tap leading across the map into your fortress)?
:The pipe itself--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Hidden Magma Pipe ==
So I just got the message 'You have discovered a magma pipe.' This made me very happy, because I had no idea that magma was on my map, and the area is completely devoid of trees, which means I won't have to worry about charcoal as much. Anywhos, after getting the message and looking around the level... I can't find it anywhere! I assumed that you get the message when your dwarf mines a tile next to the pipe or something, but I can't find it anywhere, not even on the local map. Magma forges are enabled, so that must mean that I did find one... But is there any way of finding the darn thing? I assumed it was from some of my exploratory mining, but after looking around that area and even digging further into the rock, I don't see anything. Is it possible that the magma pipe is off the level or something, so I get the message but can't see it? Arg, this is so annoying. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 00:34, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:Try zooming in on any magma related creatures from the units menu. You could also zoom in on the newest (last) obsidian stone listed on the stocks menu I think. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 04:21, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:Check for a [[Magma#Using_magma|Magma Cap]]. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:12, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

::I tried looking at the units list... Only a couple dead kobolds, a few camels, and my dwarves... So that's a no go. And there are 15 obsidian stones in my stocks, but the zoom function is grayed out... And my bookkeeper is at 100% efficiency. I also tried looking for a magma cap, but I couldn't find one. Aha! Success! I made an obsidian stockpile, and watched where my all-knowing dwarves went, and I found the source of the obsidian. I tried digging from that point, and I found it! It's a bit small, but I suppose the diameter doesn't matter much when it's a magma pipe. Thanks for your help, guys. Also, I know that talk pages aren't meant to be used as forums or anything, but is it against the rules and/or frowned upon to ask questions on the talk pages?

::: It's fine, it might even be a good thing, since we can add other tidbit of information to a main article if needed. Feel free to ask question (as long as it is in the appropriate place. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 13:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

== Items Caught In Cooling Magma ==
After one of my wrestlers got pulled into a magma vent, I noticed that his Steel equipment only sank a single Z level. This brings up the idea that, if I were to pour water over the surface and harden that Z level, I could presumably recover the equipment. But will items caught in hardening magma be destroyed? Or merely trapped in obsidian that you can mine out? --[[User:Scarecrow|Scarecrow]] 16:37, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:Hm, good question. Wouldn't it make sense that the item just gets trapped, and you just have to mine out the hardened rock to get the item back? That is, if it's resistant to magma and/or the temperature's off. Right? Why would cooling the magma destroy the object? Unless the game had it coded where like, a tile of stone being created removes all the items from the block. Which would suck. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 17:48, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Items lost in rivers or moats can be recovered by mining the ice in winter. It is not unreasonable to assume that magma/obsidian behaves like water/ice in this respect. This begs testing, obviously. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 21:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

== Flies spawning from magma? ==

I don't know why, but I've observed flies (normal and acorn flies, mostly normal flies) spawning at the edge of magma where its melting rock. It's particularily noticeable when you have magma channels under your forging area since the confined space tends to concentrate them. Also, they will come out of any magma access holes you have dug. I'm using the Mayday graphics mod, so no idea if it's an artifact. My theory is that they represent vapors coming out of the magma as it melts the rock it encounters. I also added this fact to the flies page as well. --[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 14:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== Digging into volcano wall ==

While the article says you need unbelievably fast to avoid getting incinierated while digging into the obsidian wall, this doesn't seem to be true. More important than speed is to make sure the digger has a designated mining section a few blocks away to immiedately start working on so he doesn't get that split second pause before switching labor. With this method I got a miner with merely "agile" out safely. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 04:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Magma

2009-07-14T04:48:21Z

Greep:

Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the [[Magma smelter]] article, which state that using [[Fire-safe materials]] is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:Magmaproof is not the same as fireproof. Buildings that work WITH magma need to be fireproof. Rocks and iron are fireproof. Wood is not. Buildings that are going IN the magma, such as floodgates, their mechanisms, and pumps need to be magmaproof materials such as steel and bauxite. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 01:51, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
: Yes, dwarves seem to be able to swim through magma unharmed when temperature is off(I've had them shoved in during a fight, not 100% sure), but they'll violently resist this, even without danger. Water will still steam, it seems to be hard coded. --[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 16:50, 12 November 2008 (EST)

Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_rocks#Naming this article] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock#Mineralogical_classification this site] list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?
:It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.
::So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)

On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--[[User:SL|SL]] 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)
::I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this "cap", I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)
:::Turning on the "see magma pools and pipes" option in the init file would be a great help for trouble shooting on this topic.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:44, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Magmapool/pipe section ==
Zara, you recently added some info about all magma pipes having cliffs over them -- this is incorrect. I've played a very large number of magma pipe maps, and very often they are completely exposed to the air. I've also removed the line about them being "as small as two z-levels!", because it needs better phrasing. I may fix it later. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 22:39, 26 February 2008 (EST)

:in the meantime I had figured that out, too. But what is the difference between a magma pipe and a volcano, then? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Zara|Zara]]

::As far as I know, the distinction comes down to whether it reaches the surface. If so, some would then call it a volcano rather than a magma pipe. I believe that magma pipes which reach the surface (or volcanoes, if you will) are the only ones which actually show up on the embark map, while underground magma pipes and magma pools do not (unless you use the Regional Prospector tool). --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 23:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

:::No, similar to Moonanibe,I've played on several maps where, on the embark screen, the magma pipe was only visible using regional prospector. However, as soon as I took a look at the place, I found the magma partly (or completely) exposed on the surface. [[User:Zara|Zara]] 01:59, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
::::Magma pipes are not 'necessarily' part of a mountain, while volcanoes make a mountain around them during world gen. Comes down to a number game. Volcanoes have a magma number of 100, while pipes have a number between 99 and some lower value.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:48, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Added new section ==
I added a section regarding "Built objects vs. Magma". I think it's absolutely vital we establish what does and doesn't melt in magma, in a clean list. There are quite a few things that could be added to that list (Constructed floors for one) so please, do add to it. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 17:31, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:Have you tested the bridges? I conjecture that all buildings and constructions without mechanisms are perfectly fine with magma contact. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:: The bridges part was cut from another section of the article and moved in there. Since it was already here, I assumed it was accurate. I haven't actually checked myself. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 16:54, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:I will verify bridges one way or the other. I'm pretty sure they cant melt, though. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:03, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::they dont melt, as they arent actually within the magma. that was copied over from the 2d wiki and nobody removed it -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 22:29, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::: I noticed you removed the line about bridges. It seems silly not to mention them at all, so I've written up a line about them working no matter what the material and stuck it in. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 23:12, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::::yea they should definately be mentioned, wasnt thinking when i removed it completely(recovering from a bad cold and brain is still a bit foggy) -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 00:49, 20 February 2008 (EST)
Tested. Non-magmaiproof bridges -over- magma are fine. Non-magma-proof submerged in magma will melt. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:39, 21 February 2008 (EST)
: Interesting. I'll edit the article to say as much. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 15:30, 21 February 2008 (EST)
This is what I've found: ANY Construction is safe from magma (even wooden ones. Walls, stairs, fortifications, etc). Any building is unaffected by magma if the magma doesn't occupy the same tile as the building. Example: a door is safe if it's closed, even if it's made of non-safe rock or wood. If you lock it open with a mechanism, or if it's jammed, then the magma interacts with the components, burning/melting them if they can't stand the heat. A pump made of wood or any other material is also safe, as long as the magma doesn't flow *over* it. Since the "out" side acts as a wall, if it's correctly isolated from the magma it won't get damaged and will pump the magma without any trouble. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 01:41, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Anyone clear on Vertical Bars in magma? I am attempting to keep imps and such from moving through my magma feeding tunnel and was curious if anyone had any good solutions to this problem. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 16:23, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

:I just use a bauxite wall grate, it works fine for me. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:02, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
:: Ah, thank you, I just wanted to be sure they didn't melt regardless --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 02:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 
I made a few tests with magma and buildings/constructions and I can confirm some known results and I can provide a few new aspects. Constructions (b->C) are magma safe (walls, floors, stairs, others not tested). No matter what the material is.
*<s>bridges build with bauxite *rocks* are not magma safe (bauxite mechanism or not)</s>
*bridges build with bauxite *blocks* are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
*bridges build with steel bars are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
Open test: bridge with blocks considered as not magma safe.
 [[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:14, 11 July 2008 (EDT)
::I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The bridges build with bauxite rocks were previously connected with a lever. Unfortunately the mechanism is not removed from the bridge when you remove the lever. Well, at least it seems that the rules for magma safe materials are valid for bridges. With one exception: raised bridges can contain any mechanism, only when magma flows over the bridge it is destroyed.--[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 13:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== Replenishing Magma ==

Since magma replenishes now, I've rewritten that snippet from the article. If I've missed something(a kind of magma not regenerating, though this always worked for me on several maps), feel free to correct things. --[[User:Romantic Warrior|Romantic Warrior]] 15:47, 18 February 2008 (EST).

I have a very good feeling that the replenishing magma is just "pressurized" magma. I haven't tested fully, but i have poured water over a magma pipe and re-mined it, and in that case the magma flow was upwards. --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 03:49, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Temperature ==

Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:I'm not sure how the temperature calculations are done, but I CAN tell you that magma will melt nearby ice. Check out http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-153-meltingwateronglacier to see it in action. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 15:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)

::It should be a flow, just like the magma itself. One of the other visible results is warm stone. The same can probably be said for water and damp stone as well. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)

::It also makes sure water stays heated; a friend of mine keeps magma under a few of his natural pools to make sure they stay thawed during the cold winter months (all but the middle summer month!) --Gotthard 17:45, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

==Flow?==

I have a magma pipe (pit) in my current fortress... I breached the pipe from the lowest level because of the diagonal bug when I discovered it, and it filled some long exploratory shafts. Since then, the top magma layer is down to 5/7 and 6/7 running all over the surface. After a little while, it's easy to see that magma act curiously: instead of bouncing from wall to wall like real water physics, in my game the 5/7 (the flow) seems to all move in the same direction at the same time. The direction change often, and seem to change randomly. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)

There is another way to stop a flow of magma that's moving through a tunnel. You can go one z-level higher, dig to a spot above the magma-filled tunnel, then build a channel above where the magma is flowing and assign it as a Pond Zone. So long as you have buckets and a viable Water Source zone, a dwarf will come along and drop water on the magma, instantly turning it into obsidian and blocking the tunnel. --[[User:Stromko]] January 6th, 2007
: I've tried this - it rarely works. Usually you just destroy 1/7 of the magma per bucket, along with the water from the bucket, and nothing turns to obsidian. You need to hit it with larger quantities of water at once to get reliable results. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:35, 6 January 2008 (EST)
::Actually, you have to hit it from two levels up. Just one won't do anything.--[[User:Demosthenes|Demosthenes]] 17:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)

I have added a section to the main page on magma flow, based on frequent confusion in the forums, and on some investigations I have been making into the behavior of magma when pumped (I'm not the first to discover this behavior, but I did go to a fair degree of effort to test how it behaves in differing circumstances) --[[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] 21:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
:Now THAT is how you make a diagram! Awesome. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:20, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

==Criteria for Magma Buildings==

Is there a special condition that must be met before Magma Smelters/Forges/Furnaces and so on will appear on the build menus? I have a magma pit and some channels over it so that I can access it for magma, but I cannot build any magma-using buildings. - [[User:Confused Rat|Confused Rat]]

:Magma furnaces and forges need a hole somewhere on the ground where they are built. This is to allow the furnace/forge to take the heat from the magma as they are used. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:43, 25 January 2008 (EST)

:What he means is that the magma furnaces don't even appear in the build menu. This is because you haven't discovered magma through natural means. The only way this can happen is if you used reveal to find the magma. You'll have to use the [[Utilities#Enable_Magma_Buildings|Enable Magma Buildings]] utility to make them appear. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:03, 25 January 2008 (EST)

:Reclaimed fortresses may be bugged. If you reclaimed you fortress you probably can't do anything with it without 3rd party programs (like one mentioned above). Magma in [[pit]]s isn't enough to allow magma buildings. You need to discover true magma pipe and get pop-up informing about this. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

:I had a similar problem in a human settlement, so I do not know if the bug applies there, too... but there IS a chance I abandoned and reclaimed at one point, so it could just be that --[[User:Zatnik|Zatnik]] 05:02, 7 January 2009 (EST)

== Infinity Generators? ==

Because magma is currently a finite resource, would it be a good idea to add how to make an infinity generator as workarround untill Toady gives us some more of the stuff?—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Highlord Asehujiko|Highlord Asehujiko]] ([[User talk:Highlord Asehujiko|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Highlord Asehujiko|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
:Not on the main article as it would easily be considered cheating. In here, or the [[cheating]] article itself would be fine, the latter probably more appropriate as it could be applied to water as well for those scorching maps. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:16, 27 January 2008 (EST)
::Magma regenerates in most cases, which pretty much means it's infinite. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Lava vs. Magma ==

I hadn't noticed it until just now, but both Lava and Magma occur in the game. I haven't seen this fact referenced in the wiki. Magma is a fluid which occurs in Magma Pipes, and in areas directly connected to Magma Pipes. Lava appears to occur in disconnected areas. I'm not sure what happens if you reconnect. If you use {{k|k}} to view a square, you'll see either Magma or Lava depths given. I'm not clear on what difference there is between the two fluids. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

:There is none, just the name. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:30, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::both in df, and irl, molten rock in open air is called lava, while subterranean is called magma -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:40, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::: Ah, so magma which is ''Outside'' is lava. Cool. I guess my disjoint areas are all also outside :) I suppose we ought to mention this somewhere on the page? --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 19:19, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

== Magma vs puppy? ==

I have encountered an interesting glitch. I have 2 puppies and a kitten in magma that aren't dying, and yes I have temperature setting on. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-570-magmavspuppy

For those interested in trying to recreate it, I believe it has to do with designating the animal to slaughter while trying to throw it into a pit. A few of my dwarves were having pathing errors to try and slaughter them when I noticed the 3 invulnerable pests. After saving and reloading, the critters were insta-gibbed.
--[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 04:59, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Chasm Confusion ==

"The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores."

Magma, at least in my experience, has always been surrounded only by Obsidian, as a result you cannot get any kind of insight as to the surrounding minerals, this differs from a chasm where the veins coming up to a chasm are directly reflected in the walls.

--[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 04:18, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:volcanoes and magmapipes can form large "chasms" above them, though it depends on how rocky the map is
:Confirmed, various minerals and gems were visible in the 'crater' area two levels above the magma in my magma pipe. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:05, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== gruesome accident in older 2d version ==

beware wooden floodgates
not only do they burn(as I planned)
but i scattered magma all around the room
it rolled around quickly in all directions, flooding the tunnels, burning miners, smelters, war dogs and puppies alike without remorse.
it has thus far filled the entire message screen with " someone" or "something" has burned to death
it appears to gain mass from creeping down hallways! oh god...
60 deaths, at least 25 dwarves and 15 puppies22:08, 28 July 2008 (EDT)[[User:Eerr|Eerr]]

== Magma cooling? ==

Ive noticed at a 1/7 depth, the magma seems to cool and go away. v40d --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:28, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

: That is probably what the author meant by "Magma that is only 1 deep "evaporates" over time." [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 19:58, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

== Mechanisms on Non-Floodgates ==

I want to power my underground smelting operations with magma, so I'm digging a tunnel into the side of a magma pipe. I don't want magma creatures coming in that way, so I need a set of [[bars]] across it. However, once I set up the bars, I need to open them to get a miner past and cut the last bit of stone and open the tunnel to the magma. I was going to just attach the bars to a level, but the question of what to use for the [[mechanism]] is bugging me. I don't want to waste my precious imported [[Bauxite]] on the mechanism, and once it closes behind the miner it never need to open again so it's fine it it melts, but not if the melting mechanism will cause the bars to deconstruct! Anyone know what happens to things other than floodgates when their mechanisms get melted off?
--17:11, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

: Or you could make your life much simpler with [[Fortification]]s. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

:: How? [[Fortification]]s allow liquid to pass through and stop creatures, yes, but you can't open them ''at all''. How am I supposed to get my dwarf back after he digs the last square of the channel if there's a fortification blocking the way?--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 15:49, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I used a fortification to keep fire imps out of my magma channel; I dug a stairway totally unconnected to the rest of my fortress to a spot adjacent to the top layer of the magma pipe, then dug a tunnel from within the fortress to within one tile of the stairway. I fortified the tile that separated the two, then dug a channel (from outside) that let the magma flow against the "outside" face of the fortification. The magma flowed through the fortification and into the "inside" tunnel.

:::For good measure, in case I want to drain the inside tunnel at some point, I put an s-turn in the inside tunnel and situated a nickel/bauxite floodgate around the corner, out of sight of the fortification.

:::Viewed from above, basically it looks like this:

~============
~~=====..X...
~~=====.=====
~~=<#...=====
~~===========
~============

~ - Magma pipe
= - Unmined tile (wall)
. - Mined tile (channel)
< - Stairway
# - Fortification
X - Floodgate

:::The last step here is to remove the tile between the magma and the stairway by digging a channel from one z-level up.
:::--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Why do you need a stairway? Couldn't you have just put the fortification on the tile where you have the stairway now? I'm also not sure why you need a turn as opposed to having the floodgate directly in line; i.e. {{qd|cols=7|~|`|╬|{{qd/ch{{!}}X{{!}}888|ccc}}|.|.|.}}
::::[[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:55, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::I believe you can't create a fortification from above, though I could be wrong. It doesn't cost anything to dig one extra z-level down to get yourself a tile with an open face front and back which fortifies up nicely. Also, I put the kink in the tunnel just to be paranoid -- I don't want things shooting fireballs down it. I'm not sure if a fireball can destroy a floodgate. Again, it didn't cost me anything to make it a touch more elaborate.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

::::Well, if I dug in from above, I could just use a non-retracting set of bars. Fortifications allow liquid to flow, but they slow it down. But I'm not digging at the top level of the pipe. I suppose I could just use a sacrificial non-magma-safe floodgate, set up the bars behind it, and then open it and let it melt.
::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:20, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

== Magma Ate My Wall ==
While digging my channel to a magma pipe, I came across a vein of Lignite which ran perpendicular to my channel. I mined it out, hauled the lignite over to my fortress, and then built some walls over the side passages. It's now less than a year later, and one of those wall-units is missing. Unless there's some way a fire imp or other magma creature can destroy walls, the magma must have melted the wall. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 07:12, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:Wasn't that wall a Lignite wall ? It may have burnt, then. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:46, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:Yes, it sounds like it was a liginite wall. Magma will ignite coke-bearing rock, this has been the case for a long time. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:56, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:: No, the wall was built from rock salt. All the lignite was hauled away, and as an economic stone, not a material choice I could have made by accident. The floor is still lignite though. Think that may have been a factor? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:58, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::That's possible, but I find it unlikely. Also, I misinterpreted what you meant by 'built a wall', didn't realize it was a construction. I thought it was a smoothed rock face. It's been a persisting question (at least in #df on synIRC) if magma will melt constructions not made of bauxite. You may have just answered that for us. Perhaps you could test by letting magma into a 5x5 room with one natural rock pillar in the middle, and a wall construction of the same type of stone? That'd answer the question once and for all, I think. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:11, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::I've had magma against some of my constructed walls for years and years without damage. A good thing too, I've got quarters on the other side! They're almost certainly basalt. I wouldn't rule out the vanishing wall being caused by a burning floor; lignite can burn for years before vanishing. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:14, 5 November 2008 (EST)
::::Interesting. It was probably the liginite floor, then, but that begs the question of how a burning floor could consume a wall; stone should be fire-safe. A really interesting situation, to be sure. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::Also -- as for 'not a material choice I could have made by accident', I've found my masons will happily convert expensive imported ores and flux into blocks if they decide your depot's closer than the nearest basalt. And once anything's blocked, it's useless but for constructions. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:39, 5 November 2008 (EST)

::::: @Corona: That's for a mason's workshop, though. When you build walls, you choose the specific rocks to build from. Although, I have to say that I've never had a mason use a rock from the restricted list.
::::: For clarity, here's an image capture. The east-west shaft was my original tunnel towards the magma pipe. Every mined-out tile north or south of that shaft was Lignite. However, the opening just below the cursor, where my missing wall is supposed to be, is listed as Rock Salt as well. This is because dwarves kept building that section of wall from the wrong side, and I had to deconstruct it and put it back up several times -- which kills our "burning lignite floor" theory. Hrm.....now that I think about it, I can't be sure that I did build that wall in the end. I can't remember if a dwarf ever built it from the correct side. I'll let you know if another wall section disappears.
[[Image:romeofalling1.GIF]]

--[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:54, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== Disambiguation ==

I see the term ''magma pipe'' and ''magma vent'' being used interchangeably. Do these terms mean the same thing? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:25, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:Basically, yes. Magma vents, however, are visible from the surface, whereas magma pipes are not. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:26, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Magma Vs. Sand ==

In a failed experiment with wooden screw pumps with magma proof blocks, I have discovered something horrible and intriguing. Magma/lava can burn it's way through sand, so now I have an above ground magma cistern half flooding back into the magma pipe I filled it from, and half into my underground workshops through 2 z-levels of sand flooring. I have picture proof too, but I have no idea how to upload pictures from my laptop to a wiki. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:"Upload file", toolbox, left side of this page.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Ah, thanks. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Do you mean it goes down z-levels, or does it just move across the sand? magma can normally move across anything except water, I think. --[[User:Destor|Destor]] 14:41, 11 November 2008 (EST)
:Vertically, through z-levels. It created a hole that wasn't there before through a sand floor, into my main hallway, and then through the floor there into my workshops and stockpiles. From there, it simply followed the path of least resistance down the stairs and into the living quarters (not shown). The magma seems to only tunnel through floor tiles that have no wall tile below them, which is understandable but I've never had this happen before. Though, admittedly I have never tried to create a lava cistern on top of sand before. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)
<gallery>
Image:DF-0.JPG|Above ground (sorry for large size despite jpeg compression)
Image:DF-1.JPG|1 z-level down (main hallway)
Image:DF-2.JPG|2 z-levels down (workshops and rock, bar, and wood stockpiles)
</gallery>

== Regarding Boatmurdered ==

I have this intense desire to flood the world in magma. (yes, I'm playing the 2D Dwarf Fortress. Sue me.) How did they get the magma onto the surface? Last I checked, pumps don't exist, sooo... --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 02:45, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:Channels and aqueducts... They'll transport any liquid anywhere. And bridges too!--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]]
::But magma's on the "Z-level" below. How's it supposed to get on the actual level of the elephants? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:50, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:::You're still thinking in 3D. Magma is "in" the tiles where the river is, and will be in the tiles where you dig a channel, and you want to get it in the tiles where the elephants are, by digging a channel from the magma river to the outside and "releasing" it from the channel using a floodgate. The miner who digs the part of the channel that connects it to the magma river itself might get killed, since they always stood ''in'' the channel square while digging it in the 2D version. Put a floodgate just beyond it before digging it out so you can shut off the flow, since you will make mistakes.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:36, 28 November 2008 (EST)
::::Yes, I realize I'm thinking in 3D. Exactly how does the magma get out of the channel and onto the ground? Because last I checked, fluids didn't do that naturally. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:44, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:::::That's just the way the 2D version works. Channel next to liquid = liquid now in channel. Tile at end of channel not floodgate (or other liquid stopper) = liquid now on ground. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:47, 28 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Read [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Channel#Game_mechanics Channel] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Irrigation#Controlled_flooding Irrigation] on the archive wiki. You have to play with channels and floodgates for a bit before it all makes sense, though. The 2D version tended to get real kludgy when it came to fluids. Try to get a farm going to understand the basics of the 2D channels, floodgates, and fluids.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:07, 28 November 2008 (EST)

== No little errors ==

I just made a discovery. There is nothing like small error in the terms of magma engineering. After attempting to make my lava moat, I accidentally dug channel one tile longer, than it should be. At first, it went good. But then, magma flowed over my wall and flooded entire fortress. Remember - no little errors. [[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 12:19, 30 November 2008 (EST)

== Export the local map ==

"...you can try exporting the local map of the world which can be much more quickly searched for the distinctive red ≈ symbol. " How does one do that? --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 02:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)
:Right after generating your world, there is an option to export the map. I think it maps to 'p' but I can't swear to it now. I don't know if there is a way to do it at a time other than right after generation. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:45, 4 December 2008 (EST)
::Legends screen lets you export maps as well, but they don't have the special features enabled, even with all applicable options enabled. Probably on the todo list 'somewhere', but can't imagine it's even semi-important. So you'll have to rely on worldgen exports. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::I thought it was just the region map you can export, not the local map, and a red ≈ just means desert and/or red sand on that map. You can see named volcanoes on it though -- red ^s.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:16, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::It's mapped to "P". Capital. [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 21:01, 12 February 2009 (EST)

== Temperature setting ==

While magma will not cause fires while the temperature is turned off in the init file, it seems the game remembers at least some of the fires it would have caused. I was playing with temperature off and tunneled into magma rather carelessly, knowing it wouldn't hurt me, later, when I turned the temperature on in that game, the dwarves that came into contact with the magma were immediately set on fire. This was about a year later in game. I checked back several times by quitting without saving, every time I turned the temperature on, those same dwarves caught fire, with the temperature off, there was no indication of fire what so ever.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 23:36, 23 January 2009 (EST)

:Oh wow, I can imagine tons of uses for that, especially when toady makes it so that you can go and raid the goblins... Kamikaze dwarves, anyone? Well, I guess it should be in the article, but it would be nice to do more testing first. I think that if a dwarf falls in water, he stops burning. So if you could find out if they, after being put out with temperature off, still lit up next time we could put it in. Do more research, I would but I have had trouble with DF lately, it has been mad slow.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 00:01, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::Well, temperatures are flows, and items remember how warm they are, so presumably the dwarves that burst into flames are still at a ridiculous temperature and haven't cooled down. That, or the coating of magma on their bodies is causing them to burn...--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 00:36, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::: It has got to be the coating, as you say. Turning off the tempurature means that they should STOP remembering. The flows should not be calculated, and the items should have nothing to remember. Thats why turning it off speeds up the game, especially in extreme environs or around magma. There was, however, nothing listed that I could find, so this "magma coating" is invisible to the interface. It should also be noted that it was apparently the dwarves who caught fire first, and their burning flesh that apparently set their clothes on fire moments later.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 12:29, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::::Check specifically for magma splatters on the dwarfs in question. I wouldn't be surprised if they picked them up, similar to when creatures get doused in water. The liquid tends to stick all over them, and rarely goes away on it's own. Best bet to preserve them would be to construct a waterfall-shower, and hope it washes away the magma spatter, rather than creating obsidian ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:11, 25 January 2009 (EST)
:::::Yer, looks like the dawrfs got their Pigtail socks a coating of magma. Then magma goes boom.--[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 08:08, 19 February 2009 (EST)

==Site finder==

Will magma Pipes always show up on the local map? Because my site finder keeps throwing up sites with no visible magma on the local map. --[[User:ArneHD|ArneHD]] 17:09, 12 February 2009 (EST)

:No, magma pipes don't always reach the surface, and therefore won't always show up on the embark map. You can find out it's actual location by taking a guess based off of what stone layers are shown where in the embark map, or you can go to your init.txt and change SHOW_EMBARK_M_PIPE to ALWAYS. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 17:29, 12 February 2009 (EST)

== Magma-swimming Baby ==

For some reason, someone has dropped their baby into the magma. The strange thing is, it aint burning up. Its lying there, and apparently has done so for a long time. Its hungry and thirsty. --[[User:Myroc|Myroc]] 15:26, 21 February 2009 (EST)
:I once had a mother get trapped behind a magma bulkhead with her baby. She died promptly. The baby just sorta sat in the magma flow for about a year before it died too. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:40, 21 February 2009 (EST)

== Spawn Distance For Creatures? ==

How far from the magma pipe can fire snakes (and imps, if they spawn) appear? Also, are they limited to spawning near the magma pipe itself, or ANY magma (i.e., a magma tap leading across the map into your fortress)?
:The pipe itself--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Hidden Magma Pipe ==
So I just got the message 'You have discovered a magma pipe.' This made me very happy, because I had no idea that magma was on my map, and the area is completely devoid of trees, which means I won't have to worry about charcoal as much. Anywhos, after getting the message and looking around the level... I can't find it anywhere! I assumed that you get the message when your dwarf mines a tile next to the pipe or something, but I can't find it anywhere, not even on the local map. Magma forges are enabled, so that must mean that I did find one... But is there any way of finding the darn thing? I assumed it was from some of my exploratory mining, but after looking around that area and even digging further into the rock, I don't see anything. Is it possible that the magma pipe is off the level or something, so I get the message but can't see it? Arg, this is so annoying. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 00:34, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:Try zooming in on any magma related creatures from the units menu. You could also zoom in on the newest (last) obsidian stone listed on the stocks menu I think. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 04:21, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:Check for a [[Magma#Using_magma|Magma Cap]]. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:12, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

::I tried looking at the units list... Only a couple dead kobolds, a few camels, and my dwarves... So that's a no go. And there are 15 obsidian stones in my stocks, but the zoom function is grayed out... And my bookkeeper is at 100% efficiency. I also tried looking for a magma cap, but I couldn't find one. Aha! Success! I made an obsidian stockpile, and watched where my all-knowing dwarves went, and I found the source of the obsidian. I tried digging from that point, and I found it! It's a bit small, but I suppose the diameter doesn't matter much when it's a magma pipe. Thanks for your help, guys. Also, I know that talk pages aren't meant to be used as forums or anything, but is it against the rules and/or frowned upon to ask questions on the talk pages?

::: It's fine, it might even be a good thing, since we can add other tidbit of information to a main article if needed. Feel free to ask question (as long as it is in the appropriate place. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 13:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

== Items Caught In Cooling Magma ==
After one of my wrestlers got pulled into a magma vent, I noticed that his Steel equipment only sank a single Z level. This brings up the idea that, if I were to pour water over the surface and harden that Z level, I could presumably recover the equipment. But will items caught in hardening magma be destroyed? Or merely trapped in obsidian that you can mine out? --[[User:Scarecrow|Scarecrow]] 16:37, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:Hm, good question. Wouldn't it make sense that the item just gets trapped, and you just have to mine out the hardened rock to get the item back? That is, if it's resistant to magma and/or the temperature's off. Right? Why would cooling the magma destroy the object? Unless the game had it coded where like, a tile of stone being created removes all the items from the block. Which would suck. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 17:48, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Items lost in rivers or moats can be recovered by mining the ice in winter. It is not unreasonable to assume that magma/obsidian behaves like water/ice in this respect. This begs testing, obviously. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 21:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

== Flies spawning from magma? ==

I don't know why, but I've observed flies (normal and acorn flies, mostly normal flies) spawning at the edge of magma where its melting rock. It's particularily noticeable when you have magma channels under your forging area since the confined space tends to concentrate them. Also, they will come out of any magma access holes you have dug. I'm using the Mayday graphics mod, so no idea if it's an artifact. My theory is that they represent vapors coming out of the magma as it melts the rock it encounters. I also added this fact to the flies page as well. --[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 14:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== Digging into cap ==

While the article says you need unbelievably fast to avoid getting incinierated while digging into the cap, this doesn't seem to be true. More important than speed is to make sure the digger has a designated mining section a few blocks away to immiedately start working on so he doesn't get that split second pause before switching labor. With this method I got a miner with merely "agile" out safely. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 04:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

40d:Immigration

2009-07-14T01:45:41Z

Greep: just got it with 2.07 mil

'''Immigration''' can occur during any [[season]]. A '''migrant''' is a member of a wave of immigration.

Migrants will spawn at the edge of your local zone and move towards any meeting area that you have designated. They will travel single file from this one location until the last one of this wave has arrived.

If there is no meeting zone they will simply sit at the edge of the map until their "migrant" status fades and they find a [[job]]. Keep in mind that they can spawn on '''any''' open edge of the map, on any Z-axis; if there is no available path to your [[fortress]], they will sit and wait until one is opened up or until they go crazy and die. Additionally, if you change orders so that Dwarves are not allowed outside ({{K|o}} - {{K|i}}) immediately after immigrants begin arriving they will freeze in place, with no path to your fortress. Some players have reported that their migrants spawn in the middle of nowhere. This behaviour is a bug, though an entertaining one.

By default, immigration will stop when your fortress reaches 200 or more, but you can change this in the [[init.txt]] file. It will take several years to reach this number, assuming you want to reach it at all. Once your population falls below this number, immigration will begin again.

== How immigration is calculated ==

Immigration figures are based on your fortress's total "Created [[Wealth]]", ''as reported by the Autumn dwarven [[caravan]].'' If, for any reason, the caravan does not arrive, or does not make it off the map alive the first year, no wealth is reported, and this will seriously hurt your chances for immigration. Later, if they fail to make it off your map, then the previous year's caravan report is used to determine this year's figures.{{verify}}. The other known factor that influences immigration is that dwarf deaths in your fortress will make immigrating dwarves scared, reducing immigrant numbers possibly down to zero. If this reduces the number of immigrants, the message announcing the seasonal immigrants will include comments to this effect.

Created Wealth is visible on the Status ({{K|z}}) screen once you get a [[broker]] with the [[appraiser]] skill). All objects with any [[value]] (including mined-out areas, [[bridge]]s, and just about every kind of created [[crafts|good]]) will be included in the total. [[Artifact]]s are one of the largest influences of fortress wealth. Artifacts made of precious resources and heavily [[decoration|decorated]] can potentially double fortress wealth early in the game. Forbidden items are included in your wealth "properly" as of [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html 09/02/2008].

It is not a hard formula - identical fortresses with identical created wealth will tend to get more or less based on that wealth, but can experience some differences in the exact number arriving. The wealth seems to create a target number, and the exact number of immigrants varies around that target.

Immigration is rarely greater than 24 dwarves per wave, not including [[pet]]s, [[children|kids]] and spouses, though rarely larger numbers have been reported.

Immigration will be stopped if your fortress reaches the Population Cap set in the [[init]] file, but a given wave may cause your total to exceed that number. If your current population is even 1 less than the Population Cap, a full wave of 2 dozen (or more?) immigrants can arrive.

== When does Immigration usually occur? ==
Usually you have to wait until the dwarven [[caravan]] arrives - and leaves alive - in Autumn to start the immigrants on their way. If the caravan reports a high Created Wealth ''(of perhaps over 60,000? - an approximate number, there is no hard formula or known cutpoint)'', you can expect to receive maybe eight or more migrants in Winter after the Caravan, and/or more in the Spring following. If your dwarves are extremely productive, immigration can occur before the caravan arrives, in [[Autumn]] or even in [[Summer]] of your first year. Even with low created wealth, immigration does usually begin in Spring of the second year on.

Migrants seem to have a greater tendency to arrive in [[Spring]] and in greater numbers, but can arrive in any season.

==Immigrants' skills==
Migrants are never very skilled. They arrive with one of the following mixes:
:* [[Peasant]]s - No skills at all
:* Novice level (level 6) of two or three related skills from a single [[profession]]
:* A (no adjective) level (level 7) of a single [[skill]]
:* A [[Soldier]] - Novice level each of [[wrestler]], [[armor user]], one [[Weapons#Weapon & Military Skills|weapon skill]] (and shield user if not a [[marksdwarf]])

Migrants will sometimes bring their unskilled [[spouse]]s, [[child]]ren, and even their [[pet]] [[animal]]s. Children can perform some jobs, and will slowly grow to become adults, and any adult dwarf can be given any job, and eventually learn that [[skill]] while performing that [[labor]].

=== How to influence the types of dwarves that immigrate ===
Note that the greater the number of dwarven [[civilization]]s, the greater your ability to influence immigration.{{verify}}

The immigrants' [[skills]]/[[jobs|careers]] might be influenced by the type and number of [[workshops]] available, but also might be influenced by the population of the surviving dwarven civilizations. (Similar to that [[goblin]]s sometimes have [[human]]s in their armies, that were previously snatched from you!)

[[Soldiers]] will only arrive if you have made their type of [[weapon]]; if you make one [[battle axe]], you will only get [[axedwarf|axedwarves]]. If you make a [[crossbow]] and a [[war hammer]], you will get [[marksdwarf|marksdwarves]] and [[hammerdwarf|hammerdwarves]]. This is not affected by weapons brought to your fort; getting immigrant [[carpenter]]s won't let you get immigrant axedwarves. It is not known if the number of weapons created matters.{{verify}}

When you meet certain requirements in your outpost, like population or created wealth, some [[nobles]] will immigrate, like the [[Dungeon master]].

==Immigrant's equipment==
A migrant may not not always come with the necessary equipment to perform their jobs. For example, a [[Wood cutter]] may or may not come with a [[battle axe]]. [[Soldiers]] may appear with only the clothes on their back, or geared up in full steel armor and weapon. Rarely, a migrant may come with equipment they ''don't'' need to do their jobs - for example, a [[Carpenter]] may come with a [[battle axe]].

== What are the drawbacks to immigration? ==
Most of the time, immigration is a ''Good Thing,'' and the more, the merrier. More dwarves means more work gets done (especially hauling, since immigrants are basically peasants), more dwarves can be given "luxury" tasks like defending the fortress or making [[dye]]d [[cloth]], and some nobles require a certain number of dwarves before they arrive. However, more dwarves also means more CPU cycles eaten up, especially if your fortress is already taxing on your computer.

Of course, additional dwarves also require additional [[bedroom]]s, workshops, and [[alcohol|booze]] before they can be properly productive, and some players prefer to increase their population slowly to allow them to add the extra infrastructure at a more sedate pace.

== How can I curb immigration? ==
The easiest method to handle immigration is to change the point when immigration stops in [[Init.txt#POPULATION|init.txt]], under "population_cap". You can first set it low and raise it as you see fit. Note that you may consider this to be cheating, and it also requires exiting the game each time you want more immigrants.

You can also make sure your fort does not produce or build much. Of course, this is not an especially interesting way to play the game. Since artifacts often account for most of your fortress' wealth, killing dwarves that enter [[strange mood]]s, or turning the moods off entirely in the init file, may be a better option. This can often be accomplished by making sure all your [[workshop]]s are in enclosed [[room]]s, then locking the [[door]] on them until they go [[insane]], then starve to death. This has a drawback in that dwarves that do manage to produce an artifact often gain a desirable [[legendary]] [[skill]]. Lock the door at your own discretion.

You can also kill the immigrants themselves, deliberately or otherwise. Large numbers of deaths will reduce immigration or prevent it entirely.

Several immigration messages are possible:

* ''Some migrants have arrived.''
: This is the normal message.
* ''Some migrants have arrived, despite the danger.''
: This occurs if there are many deaths but not enough to stop immigration.
* ''Some migrants have decided to brave this terrifying place, knowing it may be their tomb.''
: Appears to be caused by a lot of deaths (80+?) yet with a fortress wealthy enough (2 million?) to attract immigrants anyway.
* ''No one even considered making the journey to such a cursed death-trap this season.''
: Very large numbers of deaths at a fortress can cause all immigration (except nobles) to cease for a while: your fortress has gained a reputation as a deathtrap! Killing nobles seems to have a magnified effect here, and killing even a single noble can cause no immigrants to arrive in the next [[season]].

== Migrants in [[Adventure Mode]] ==
Roving bands of migrants may be found on the world map. These migrants can be linked to any of the major civilizations found on the world. This includes [[goblin]]s and [[kobold]]s. Such bands will consist of non-specialized adults and children.

== Migration Effects on the World ==
It is possible for migration to change the population levels of settlements on the map over time, and to cause factions of a civilization to merge. This can be discovered through talking to individuals in Adventurer mode, and will subsequently show up in [[Legends mode]].

[[Category:Dwarves]]
[[Category:World]]

{{Starting FAQ}}

40d Talk:Immigration

2009-07-14T01:45:04Z

Greep: