Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

Armor

2023-01-09T11:09:46Z

Halavus: Changed shortcuts to menu icon template, corrections, Note about fix footwear problem with predefined uniforms. This section should probably be somewhere else in the wiki.

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{av}}
[[File:dwarf_in_armor.png|221px|right]]'''Armor''' is protective equipment used to reduce/deflect damage during [[combat]]. It comes in a variety of individual pieces that work together to cover a dwarf - there is no "suit of armor" in the sense of a single piece of equipment. Each armor piece protects a certain area or areas of a dwarf, and different pieces might cover a different collection of areas (see coverage chart below). The purpose of each piece is pretty much self-explanatory.

Loosely speaking, anything worn provides some protection, so it is considered "armor". In the [[stocks]] menu {{menu icon|k}}, each piece of armor is listed under the location where it is worn - "armor" being with other torso pieces, headwear, handwear, legwear, and footwear. However, this page will concentrate mostly just on combat-quality armor. Note that breastplates only protect upper/lower torso areas, while mail shirts also cover the neck, the upper arms, and the upper legs. (All this is explained below in more detail.)

'''The actual effectiveness of a given piece of armor depends largely on the weapon(s) being used against it.''' "Chain" pieces are flexible, and while good against slashing weapons (axes), they don't do much to stop the crushing force of blunt weapons (maces and hammers). "Solid" pieces (breastplates, greaves, gauntlets) are rigid, so they are more widely effective as protection against all weapons but are heavier. See the [[weapon]] article for more specific information.

Also, for slashing and piercing weapons (but not bludgeoning), the "armor vs. weapon" results are very dependent on the metal of each. A "better" metal will defeat a "lesser" armor, while a weapon of a lesser metal will be stopped more easily. For bludgeoning weapons, "weight" is the guiding rule, and all combat metals have roughly the same [[density|weight]]. See [[Weapon#Superior metal rule]] for further discussion.

Keeping in mind the enemies you are likely to meet and how they will be armed, it is advisable to equip your militia dwarves with at least bronze or iron armor, as copper will quickly be outclassed against most anything except silver weapons and (most) animal attacks. Testing in the arena shows that armored dwarves have a huge advantage over unarmored ones, usually taking no casualties while making short work of their enemies. (But you shouldn't need this wiki to figure that out.) However, untrained dwarves will become encumbered and slowed down wearing armor due to lacking the [[armor user]] skill.

[[File:Armor Coverage Chart.png|thumb|550px|Dwarven armor coverage chart]]
== Basics ==
=== Purpose ===
Armor's purpose is simple: to allow your dwarves to better withstand damage in combat. Where an unarmored dwarf would invariably suffer injury from a weapon strike, well-armored dwarves have a good chance of taking reduced damage or shrugging it off altogether. Potentially damaging blows become mere bruises and otherwise lethal or incapacitating wounds are reduced to serious ones. [[Clothes]], though not specifically recognized by the game as armor, nonetheless function as such and may block weak attacks.

While a clothed dwarf is a better fighter than a naked one, an unarmored dwarf will still succumb to a [[goblin]] [[ambush]] in seconds. One clad in a full set of exceptional-quality steel armor, however, can absorb most of a goblin squad's ammunition and half a minute of its time before finally being killed. Unarmored or lightly armored dwarves may suffice to deal with lone thieves and the local wildlife, but a serious [[military|army]] requires equally serious armor.

=== Types of armor ===
In terms of classifications, armor can be thought of as having three different types: clothing, leather, or metal. When you first create any [[squad]] in your squad sidebar {{menu icon|q}}, you will have the choice to assign a default uniform - "No uniform" (assigning no additional equipment, i.e., keeping their civilian clothing, no weapon), "Leather armor" (leather pieces and a melee weapon), "Metal armor" (any metal pieces and a melee weapon), or "Archer" (which is identical to "Leather armor" but with a choice of ranged weapon).

You can make additional custom uniforms for this purpose and mix and match different armor types, but otherwise, these refer to the pieces and combinations described below.
----
'''Note:''' It is important to note that '''all''' predefined uniforms have the "uniform worn over clothes" option enabled. As a result, dwarves will be unable to equip additional footwear armor, as they keep their civilian footwears on and it is not possible to wear 2 types of footwears on top of each other.
To edit any uniform and/or fix this problem:
*Select the squad wearing the uniform you wish to edit in the squad tab {{menu icon|q}}
*Click on "Equip" at the bottom of the tab
*Click on "Details" on any dwarf
*Click on "Uniform worn over clothing" to change it to "Uniform replaces clothing"
*Set a new name for the uniform
*Select "Confirm and save uniform"
*Assign the newly created uniform to the whole squad (Button "Assign uniform" -> Select from the list)
----
The first type is [[clothing]], which is made of [[cloth]] at a [[clothier's shop]] or [[leather]] at a [[leather works]]. Clothing can usually* only deflect very weak attacks - say, a [[raven]] bite - but nonetheless can reduce damage. Most dwarves will be wearing clothing; those that aren't will usually be either very [[tantrum|unhappy]], [[children|babies]], or [[insane]]. All dwarves, both your initial 7 and [[migrants]], arrive with a full set of clothing (but it does [[Clothing#Wear|wear]] out, so you'll need to make or [[caravan|trade]] for more sooner or later).

:''(*)[[Silk]] clothing is a little stronger against cutting/piercing attacks but still far from "military grade" protection.

The second type is [[leather]] and/or [[bone]] armor, which is specialized for the purpose of defense compared to standard clothing. It is also very weak and designed to protect against small- to medium-sized animal attacks; it provides almost no noticeable defense against larger animals or military weapons. Leather/bone armor is usually only used by [[hunter]]s, or as the very first armor that a fortress military uses, for defending against marauding [[Rhesus macaque|macaque]]s and the like. These can be made before any [[metal industry]] is up and running, and they only need the raw material ([[bone]] or [[Skin|tanned hide]]s) and a [[craftsdwarf's workshop]] or [[leather works]], respectively.

Note that [[clothing]] made from leather is ''not'' the same as "leather armor", even if it consumes identical raw material. Protective leather armor that can be produced from the [[leather works]] includes "leather armor" (referring to leather upper-body armor), leather leggings, leather boots (high and low), and leather helms - these items are forms of true "military" armor, and non-military dwarves will not pick them up to wear.

The last type is classic combat-quality [[metal]] armor. This armor is made by an [[armorsmith]] at a [[metalsmith's forge]] and should be the armor of choice for any serious military. This armor can further be broken down into two sub-types. Flexible "chain" armor pieces, either a shirt or leggings (only), are stronger against cutting weapons (axes, swords) but do little against blunt/crushing weapons (maces, hammers, flails, whips), though they are difficult to [[wear|destroy]] with blunt force as well. Rigid "plate" pieces provide the best all-around protection. Plate pieces include helmets, metal gauntlets, and boots - there are no "chain" versions for those pieces. A full suit might incorporate both, the plate pieces layered over the chain pieces, for the best of both worlds.

==== By location ====
Though all clothes can protect from damage, a "complete" suit of armor consists of the following pieces, one cell from each column.

{|border="1" cellpadding="5" style="margin:1em 1em 1em 0;background:#F9F9F9;border:1px #AAA solid;border-collapse:collapse;text-align:left"
|-
! scope="col" style="background:#efefef;" | Torso
! scope="col" style="background:#efefef;" | Head
! scope="col" style="background:#efefef;" | Arm
! scope="col" style="background:#efefef;" | Leg
! scope="col" style="background:#efefef;" | Feet
! scope="col" style="background:#efefef;" | [[Shield|Shields]] (block attacks)
|-
|Leather armor (upper body + lower body)
|Cap
|Gloves (hands)
|Leggings, made of leather or chain
|Low boots (feet)
|Buckler
|-
|'''Mail shirt''' (upper body + lower body + neck + upper arms + upper legs) 
and/or '''Breastplate''' (upper body + lower body only)
|Helm
|Gauntlets (hands + wrists)
|Greaves, made of plate
|High boots (feet + lower legs)
|Shield
|}

The second row is the more effective choice, while the first row offers less protection but does not slow down dwarves unskilled as "[[Combat_skill#Equipment_skills|armor users]]". Be aware that civilians will also pick up and wear leather caps and leather gloves; leather helms can be produced instead, as civilians will not equip helms, but this may slow your unskilled dwarves down.

Note that if a mail shirt is combined with high boots, explicit "leg" covering can be omitted. (Dwarves don't have knees to protect, so the upper leg is covered from the shirt and the lower leg from the boot for complete coverage).

=== Armor skill ===
Attacking and being attacked with armor on gives 3 [[experience]] to the [[armor user]] [[skill]], with 9 more points if the attack actually hits armor. Whereas armor quality affects hit block chance, armor user skill affects how quickly the dwarf can move in their armor. In arena tests, a grand master armor user could move at twice the speed of a dabbling user when in heavy armor. Faster speed translates into faster movement, although only when walking around since the combat/movement speed split in 2014.

Every time a dwarf deflects an attack with their armor, it will be [[report]]ed as - for example - Dwarf 1 slashes Dwarf 2 in the upper body with his iron short sword, but the attack is deflected by Dwarf 2's small iron breastplate!, and the dwarf will receive 18 experience on top of the 12 mentioned before. The skill can be trained by attacking local wildlife, or through [[live training]] schemes.

=== Shield skill ===
Likewise, shield use trains the [[shield user]] [[skill]]. Shields are a special piece of armor that can be worn on one arm (and cannot be worn with two-handed weapons) and can be used to block attacks better than equivalent armor can (a difference amounting to deflection instead of broken bones), greatly increasing dwarven survivability. The skill modifies how often the dwarf will be able to block an attack with the shield, and it is likewise trained every time the shield is used to block an attack, at 30 experience apiece. It can be trained in the same ways.

=== Material ===
:''See also: [[Metal#Weapon and armor quality]]''

{| class="wikitable"
! Material !! Workshop !! Labor !! Notes
|-
| [[Metal]] || [[Metalsmith's forge]] || [[Armorsmith|Armoring]] || Best choice; see notes below
|-
| [[Bone]] || [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]] || [[Bone carver|Bone carving]] || Leggings, greaves, gauntlets, and helms only
|-
| [[Shell]] || [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]] || [[Bone carver|Bone carving]] || Leggings, gauntlets, and helms only
|-
| [[Leather]] || [[Leather works]] || [[Leatherworker|Leatherworking]] || Light and unencumbering but weak protection.
|-
| [[Cloth]] || [[Clothier's shop]] || [[Clothier|Clothesmaking]] || Limited protection, nearly useless against metal.
|-
| [[Wood]] || [[Carpenter's workshop]] || [[Carpentry]] || Shield/buckler only (except [[Elf|elves]])
|}

Most armor must be made out of a weapons-grade material (steel, iron, etc.). The only exception to this is when a dwarf is in a [[strange mood]], in which case a piece of armor may be created out of any metal lying around. The material used in armor is extremely important to combat; fully [[iron]]-armored dwarves with iron short swords stand no chance against those clad in [[steel]]. In general, slashing weapons will have difficulty piercing armor made of the same weapons-grade material as the weapon, piercing weapons will be increasingly blunted, and blunt weapons will break bones through armor, almost regardless of its material. Rigid armor provides limited blunt protection, and chain mail shirts and leggings provide next to none. Even adamantine armor only prevents an estimated 13% of blows, demonstrating the utility of the slow but sure war hammer.

Shields are a bit different than other pieces of armor. Their material doesn't affect how well they deflect attacks. Wood and leather are both very light compared to their metal equivalents, and they are just as effective for blocking; however, they make for poor bludgeons if used to bash enemies (and they frequently are). When combined with changes made to how wear is applied to various materials, this means shields and bucklers of either will likely need to be replaced somewhat frequently if they are not artifact-quality. There can be no denying that the metal saved is worth it, however, especially in metal-poor embarks.

Certain weapons are surprisingly good at penetrating armor. Copper whips will shatter skulls through steel helmets. [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=116151.30 science!]

{| class="wikitable"
! colspan=5|Armor material comparison
|-
! Poor !! Acceptable !! Good !! Excellent !! Best
|-
| Leather/Bone || Copper || Iron/Bronze<nowiki>*</nowiki> || Steel || Adamantine
|}
:: (* Bronze here also includes [[Bismuth_bronze|Bismuth bronze]], as both have the same combat stats and are armor-grade metals. [[Black_bronze|Black bronze]] '''cannot''' be used for armor.)

* [[Bone]] armor can be crafted very early in the game from the bones of livestock or other animals. Roughly equivalent to leather, bone armor provides practically no protection against "real" weapons, or large animals, and little against the attacks of medium-sized animals, making it an inferior option even for [[hunter]]s, except as a fashion statement.
* [[Copper]] armor is the lowest-grade type of metal armor but also the easiest to get, requiring one of [[native copper]], [[malachite]], or [[tetrahedrite]] (next to guaranteed on any embark containing more than one metal).
* [[Bronze]] is an [[alloy]] of copper and [[tin]], which requires [[cassiterite]]. It is much improved over copper armor and is slightly stronger than iron, but it also weighs more and is more elastic.
:* [[Bismuth bronze]] has identical properties to standard bronze, but has been alloyed with [[bismuth]], making it more valuable (and fancier-[[Color#Material_by_color|color]]ed). If you have access to bismuth and want to put it to use, and you have the time and [[fuel]] for the extra steps, you can save some tin and increase the [[value]] of the final objects this way.
* [[Iron]] can be smelted from [[hematite]], [[limonite]], or [[magnetite]] and is easiest to find in [[sedimentary]] layers (though [[igneous extrusive]] layers may contain hematite). It is comparable to bronze but is slightly weaker (but more rigid) and has a less complicated smelting process.
* [[Steel]] is the best non-adamantine armor material and requires [[fuel]], [[flux]], [[iron]], and [[pig iron]] in its manufacturing. Note that steel in ''Dwarf Fortress'' is just as valuable as [[gold]]; making lots of armor is a sure way to attract [[siege|attention]], but at least it's going into shiny armor, right?
* [[Adamantine]] is only found beneath the third [[cavern]] layer, plumbing the depths of the [[magma sea]]; it can be used to create unparalleled armor but is very time-consuming to produce in addition to being hazardous to mine. It is immensely valuable to boot.

A detailed breakdown can be found [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=53571.0 here]. Note that a full suit of ''any'' non-adamantine metal armor will considerably slow down a raw recruit of average strength, as shown briefly [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111414.0 here].

[http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=92852.msg2601760#msg2601760 Some dwarven science] has also been conducted on the armor values of strange mood armors made from non-weapons-grade materials. The results seem to indicate the following ''rough'' order of preference in terms of armor properties (but take note of the artifact multiplier as well): Adamantine, Steel, Pig Iron, Iron, Bronze, Bismuth Bronze, Platinum, Brass, Black Bronze, Billon, Rose Gold, Electrum, Bismuth, Aluminum, Gold, Copper, Tin, Sterling Silver, Silver, Nickel, Zinc, Lead, Nickel Silver, Trifle Pewter, Fine Pewter, Lay Pewter.

=== Quality and strange moods ===
Quality is an important modifier on armor. Armor gets a deflection bonus based on quality level, but its effect is only known for regular (1x), masterwork (2x), and artifact (3x) armor; presumably, the quality ranks in between are progressive.

{{DF2014:Item quality/Table}}

This means that effectively, masterworks produced by legendary [[armorsmith]]s cut damage done by as much as half. This, combined with the need to produce a lot of armor, makes armorers far and away the most desired dwarves for [[strange mood]]s, and various schemes exist for influencing such an event.

Dwarves in strange moods can produce legendary artifacts, which benefit from a 3x multiplier, or three times as good as a more mundane piece of armor. Artifact-quality weapons-grade armor items are very strong defensively. However, artifacts can also be made of totally inappropriate materials, and the spectacularly low defensive values of [[giant hedgehog]] [[bone]] leggings vastly outweigh any bonuses it gets. Fortunately, soldiers will not by themselves claim artifact equipment; it can only be issued by the overseer assigning it as specific item.

Strange moods are an exception to the number-of-bars rule; only one bar is required for the item itself, although additional materials may be gathered for decoration.

=== Attachment ===
Dwarves that have used a particular piece of armor for an extended period of time may grow [[Attachment|attached]] to it, becoming [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?msg=7312290 better] at withstanding blows with it and unhappy if it is taken away. This is fine if it is a pair of ☼Steel Greaves☼, but it is a major problem if they are using what is meant to be interim armor. This happens less often with armor than it does for weapons. These events generate announcements.

=== Mechanics ===
There is no fundamental difference in performance between clothing and armor, something accentuated by regular clothing's ability to block attacks. Armor can be thought of as metal clothing, thicker and made of materials that have a much better chance of blocking attacks. Armor is, however, different in that it is not subject to standard [[wear]], will not be automatically equipped by civilians, and only non-clothing garments increase the [[Combat_skill|armor user]] skill.

The availability of specific articles of clothing varies by [[civilization]], and each has its own set of clothing that it can produce. In Fortress mode, sandals and shoes are in the same clothing class, but only the latter can be produced by dwarves, whereas the former must be stripped off dead enemies. Dwarves are gender-insensitive; a male dwarf may well put on a dress.

Non-armor clothing can provide some defense, most importantly to areas that are not covered by regular armor. The ears, nose, lips, and teeth are always exposed, even in full armor. Robes and cloaks will provide a bulwark of low-level protection, making them useful for military dwarves, especially those you plan to send through the [[danger room]].

=== Encumbrance ===
Sometimes, it is better to wear less than more armor, because it slows you down. Non-armor users tend to get slowed down significantly if they are wearing more than 1 piece of armor with 15-25 units of weight. This includes items such as mail shirts, greaves, and breastplates. Gauntlets only weigh 1-2 units of weight depending on material, and high boots weigh 3 units. Most clothing weighs 1 unit or less, with the exception of plant cloth clothing, which weigh 4 times as much as their silk and yarn alternatives.

Since most dwarves are not [[danger_room]]-trained right away into legendary armor users, it is highly recommended that you do not outfit them with the maximum amount of armor possible, as this will make them super slow and allow the enemy to get in many hits before they have a chance to fight back. Weight also hinders ranged units like marksdwarves, who more or less depend on their first strike and fast reload to cripple the enemy before they get into melee and who may also spend the majority of their time behind fortifications anyway.

Wearing a combination of 1 pair of metal gauntlets, 1 pair of metal high boots, 1 metal helmet, and 1 metal mail shirt gives an armor level 2 {{Verify}} (Are armor levels still relevant in the new material properties-based mechanics?) metal armor layer that covers all areas without sacrificing speed due to encumbrance on non-armor users. This setup will prevent most cutting and stabbing attacks from weapons below the armor's metal grade, but it will still be vulnerable to crushing attacks since no metal greaves or breastplate is worn. Lighter and weaker types of armor, like leather armor and bone greaves, can also be worn in addition to the metal layer to provide additional protection without encumbrance, and they tend to be at least moderately effective if they are masterworks {{Verify}}. Shields should be made of wood when possible because a copper shield could weigh up to 13 units of weight, and material does not matter for blocking attacks. However, wooden and leather shields wear out and break rather quickly in the new version when used to hit armor in combat, so in the long run, a metal shield might be worth it.

=== Wear ===
Armor can suffer [[wear]] when it is struck in combat.{{version|0.43.04}} Whether armor is damaged in a fight depends on material differences (e.g. steel weapons can easily damage copper armor) and presumably also the power of the attacker. Armor is irreparable, so if it's destroyed in combat, new armor must be made or purchased to replace it.

Armor (and clothing) stored in a [[stockpile]] with the [[refuse]] category enabled experience accelerated wear - this is a feature intended to dispose of unwanted items in a refuse stockpile.{{bug|5711}}

== Layers ==

The layers are, in order from inner to outer:
*Under
*Over
*Armor
*Cover

==Types of Protection==
===Material Requirements===
The number of regular metal bars needed to make a piece of metal armor is equal to the material size divided by 3, rounded down with a minimum of one.
The number of adamantine wafers or stacks of adamantine cloth required to create armor is equal to the material size.

===Headgear===
{| style="margin:1em 1em 1em 0;background:#F9F9F9;border:1px #AAA solid;border-collapse:collapse;" class=wikitable class=sortable
|- style="background:#F2F2F2;text-align:center;"
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Clothing Type
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Armor Level*
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Material Size
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Materials
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|[[Armor#Size, Permit, and layering armor|Size]]
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|[[Armor#Size, Permit, and layering armor|Permit]]
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Layer
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Coverage %
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Bars to make
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Bars returned on melting
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Melting efficiency %
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cap[S]
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|+
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L,M
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Over
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|0.3
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|30%

|-
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Helm[S]
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1+
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|L,B,S,M
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|30
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|20
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Armor
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|0.6
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|60%
|-
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Hood
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cover
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Mask†[S]
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L,M
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|20
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Under
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Turban†
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|20
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Over
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Head Veil†
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Over
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Face Veil†
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Under
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Headscarf†
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Over
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|}

===Upper Body===
{| style="margin:1em 1em 1em 0;background:#F9F9F9;border:1px #AAA solid;border-collapse:collapse;" class=wikitable class=sortable
|- style="background:#F2F2F2;text-align:center;"
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Clothing Type
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Armor Level*
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Material Size
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Materials
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|[[Armor#Size, Permit, and layering armor|Size]]
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|[[Armor#Size, Permit, and layering armor|Permit]]
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Layer
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Coverage %
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|[[Armor#Coverage|UBSTEP]]
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|[[Armor#Coverage|LBSTEP]]
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Bars to make
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Bars returned on melting
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Melting efficiency
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Dress
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|5
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Under
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|MAX
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|MAX
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Shirt
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|3
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Under
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|MAX
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|0
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Tunic
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|3
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Under
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|0
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Toga
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|5
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|30
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Over
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Vest
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Over
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|0
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|0
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Robe
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|6
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|20
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Over
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|MAX
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|MAX
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Coat
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|5
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|20
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Over
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|MAX
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Leather Armor[S]
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|6
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|20
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Armor
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Mail Shirt
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|6
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|M
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Over
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1.8
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|90%
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Breastplate[S]
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|3
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|9
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|M
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|20
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Armor
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|0
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|0
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|3
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2.7
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|90%
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cloak
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|5
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|150
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cover
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|MAX
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cape†
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|5
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|300
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cover
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|0
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|0
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Backpack
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|3
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|0
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|>300
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Over
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Quiver
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|3
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|0
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|>300
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Over
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Flask
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|5
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|L,M
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Unique*
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|}
[[Quiver]]s and [[backpack]]s are also worn on the upper body, counting towards layer permit size. [[Flask]]s are attached to the upper body armor or the garment worn over it (but not cover-layer items, such as cloaks).

===Hands===
{| style="margin:1em 1em 1em 0;background:#F9F9F9;border:1px #AAA solid;border-collapse:collapse;" class=wikitable class=sortable
|- style="background:#F2F2F2;text-align:center;"
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Clothing Type
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Armor Level*
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Material Size
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Materials
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|[[Armor#Size, Permit, and layering armor|Size]]
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|[[Armor#Size, Permit, and layering armor|Permit]]
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Layer
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Coverage %
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|[[Armor#Coverage|UPSTEP]]
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Bars to make (per pair)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Bars returned on melting (per pair)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Melting Efficiency %
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Gloves
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Under
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Gauntlets[S]
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|B,S,M
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|20
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Armor
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1.2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|120%
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Mittens
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|20
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cover
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|150%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|}

Each crafting job produces a pair of gloves, gauntlets, or mittens -- one right-handed and one left-handed. The items from a single job may have different quality levels.

===Lower Body===
{| style="margin:1em 1em 1em 0;background:#F9F9F9;border:1px #AAA solid;border-collapse:collapse;" class=wikitable class=sortable
|- style="background:#F2F2F2;text-align:center;"
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Clothing Type
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Armor Level*
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Material Size
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Materials
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|[[Armor#Size, Permit, and layering armor|Size]]
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|[[Armor#Size, Permit, and layering armor|Permit]]
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Layer
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Coverage %
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|[[Armor#Coverage|LBSTEP]]
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Bars to make
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Bars returned on melting
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Melting efficiency %
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Trousers
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|4
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|30
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Over
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|MAX
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Leggings[S]
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1+
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|5
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|L,B,S,M
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|30
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Armor
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|MAX
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1.5
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|150%
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Greaves[S]
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|3
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|6
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|B,M
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|30
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Armor
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|MAX
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1.8
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|90%
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Loincloths
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|30
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Under
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|0
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Thongs†
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|30
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Under
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|25%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|0
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Skirts (Short)†
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Over
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|0
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Skirts†
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Over
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Skirts (Long)†
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Over
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|MAX
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Braies†
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|3
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|30
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Under
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|}

===Footwear===
{| style="margin:1em 1em 1em 0;background:#F9F9F9;border:1px #AAA solid;border-collapse:collapse;" class=wikitable class=sortable
|- style="background:#F2F2F2;text-align:center;"
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Clothing Type
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Armor Level*
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Material Size
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Materials
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|[[Armor#Size, Permit, and layering armor|Size]]
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|[[Armor#Size, Permit, and layering armor|Permit]]
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Layer
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Coverage %
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|[[Armor#Coverage|UPSTEP]]
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Bars to make (per pair)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Bars returned on melting (per pair)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Melting efficiency %
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Socks
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Under
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Sandals†
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|25
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Over
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Shoes
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|20
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Over
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Low Boots
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|L,M
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|25
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Armor
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|0.6
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|60%
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|High Boots
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1+
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|L,M
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|25
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Armor
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1.2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|120%
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Chausses†
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|3
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|C,L
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Under
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|100%
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|MAX
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|N/A
|}

Each crafting job produces one pair of footwear. Unlike gloves, footwear items are interchangeable (they are not right- or left-footed). The two items from a single crafting job may have different quality levels.

===Shield===
{| style="margin:1em 1em 1em 0;background:#F9F9F9;border:1px #AAA solid;border-collapse:collapse;" class="wikitable sortable"
|- style="background:#F2F2F2;text-align:center;"
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Clothing Type
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Armor Level*
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Material Size
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Materials
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|[[Armor#Size, Permit, and layering armor|Size]]
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|[[Armor#Size, Permit, and layering armor|Permit]]
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Layer
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Coverage %
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|[[Armor#Coverage|UPSTEP]]
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Bars to make
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Bars returned on melting
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1.2em;"|Melting efficiency
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Buckler
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|L,M,W
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|NA
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|NA
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|NA
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|0.6
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|60%
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Shield
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|4
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|L,M,W
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|NA
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|NA
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|NA
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|1.2
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|120%
|}

* * {{=}} Items without an armor rating are considered clothing. Armor levels 1-3 were referred to as 'leather', 'chain', or 'plate' in earlier versions.
* + {{=}} The armor level of an item with a "+" can be increased by one if made from metal.
* † {{=}} This article cannot be crafted by dwarves (except for [[artifact]]s) but may be purchased in trade.
* [S] {{=}} shaped item, max one [S] per body slot (e.g. a breastplate cannot be worn with leather armor, but it can be worn with a mail shirt, and greaves and leggings cannot be combined).
* Materials can be Cloth, Leather, Bone, Shell, Metal, or Wood.
Note: Striking with a shield trains both misc object user and armor user skills. Additionally, shield material and quality only matter for bashing attacks and do not affect blocking.[http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134779.0] The chance to block [[projectile]]s is doubled.{{cite forum|169696/8385967}}

==Special procedurally generated armors==
Some rare entities have their own procedurally generated armors. Currently, these armors are produced by copying the default properties of the "base" armor and adding an adjective ("bulging", "segmented", "rounded", etc.). Dwarves in [[strange mood]]s that select from all armors with a certain tag may produce one of these procedurally generated armors. Since they retain the properties of their base items, these armors should be as usable as standard armor of the base type.

==Equipping clothing==

Items in ''Dwarf Fortress'' must be equipped in a specific order. For example, a dwarf must equip a layer type of Under before he equips a layer type of Over. The complete order is: Under, Over, Armor, Cover. It is common among civilians to see a dwarf equip pants with no undergarments due to this restriction, even when an undergarment is available. This issue doesn't typically occur with soldiers, however.

There is no restriction on wearing multiple items of the same type ''(Unless the item is shaped [S])''. You can, for example, wear 3 cloaks without penalty.

===Process for equipping a new piece of clothing===

The following variables will be used in the logic below:
:'''Current Item''' refers to the specific item being equipped.
:'''Total Size''' refers to the [[Armor#Size, Permit, and layering armor|size]] of all items equipped on that body part, excluding the item to be equipped (while including those on a different [[Armor#Size, Permit, and layering armor|layer]]).
:'''Permit''' refers to the maximum allowable size of items equipped on the same or lower level as the item to be equipped.

In order to equip a new item, the dwarf (or other creature) ...
:*will determine if he is eligible to wear the item in question (Perhaps the body part is missing/severed).
:*must start with the lowest layer first, continuing to the next layer when no other items of that layer need to be equipped.
:*checks if the item is shaped [S] and will only equip the item if no other shaped items are equipped '''on that body part'''.
:*will equip items with lowest permit level first. If two items share the same permit value, the highest-size item will be equipped first{{verify}}.
:*then checks if the total size of items on each body part the current item would cover (excluding the current item's size) is less than or equal to the current item's permit level.
:*in case of an Armor layer item, also checks whether its own size + permit value is greater than the total size of items already on the body part.
:*in case of any non-Cover item, checks whether the total size of '''items in the same layer including the current item''' is less than the smallest permit value among these items.
:*if all above logic is true, the dwarf will equip the item.

===Equipment process example===

Each item is listed in order of being equipped. The primary focus of this example is that the total size must be equal to or less than the permit size of the item being equipped. Like above, the total size ''excludes the size of the item being equipped''.

{| style="margin:1em 1em 1em 0;background:#F9F9F9;border:1px #AAA solid;border-collapse:collapse;" class="wikitable sortable"
|- style="background:#F2F2F2;text-align:center;"

!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Item Type
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1em;"|Size
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1em;"|Total Size*
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:1em;"|Permit
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Mail Shirt
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|0
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Mail Shirt
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Mail Shirt
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|30
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Breastplate [S]
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|20
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|50
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;color:#F00;"|Mail Shirt
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;color:#F00;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;color:#F00;"|65
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;color:#F00;"|50
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cloak
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|65
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|150
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cloak
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|80
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|150
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cloak
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|95
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|150
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cloak
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|110
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|150
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cloak
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|125
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|150
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cloak
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|140
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|150
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;color:#F00;"|Cloak
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;color:#F00;"|15
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;color:#F00;"|155
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;color:#F00;"|150
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cape
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|150
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|300
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cape
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|160
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|300
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cape
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|170
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|300
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cape
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|180
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|300
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cape
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|190
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|300
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cape
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|200
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|300
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cape
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|210
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|300
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cape
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|220
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|300
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cape
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|230
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|300
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cape
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|240
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|300
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cape
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|250
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|300
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cape
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|260
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|300
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cape
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|270
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|300
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cape
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|280
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|300
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cape
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|290
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|300
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|Cape
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|300
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;"|300
|-

|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;color:#F00;"|Cape
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;color:#F00;"|10
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;color:#F00;"|310
|style="border:1px #AAA solid;padding:0.2em;color:#F00;"|300
|-
|}

* * = Total Size includes the size of all equipped items but does not include the item being equipped
*Red Text = This item cannot be equipped because the total size is larger than the item's permitted size.

==Size, Permit, and layering armor==

The '''Size''' and '''Permit''' values govern how much clothing or armor can be worn.

Example: A helm (30 size, 20 permit) can be worn over two head veils (10, 100) and can fit 6 additional hoods if desired.

Example: Wearing a cap (10, 15) allows only one face veil (10, 100), but a combined total of up to 9 head veils and hoods can be added.

'''[[Adventurer mode]]''' follows the arena rules, so it is possible to have three mail shirts (15, 50), a breastplate (20, 50), and 25 capes (10, 300) on one's upper body plus a helm and six hoods on one's head. Confirmation is needed to see if [[fortress mode]] follows the old rules or the new arena rules. (Testing finds that Urist McNopants follows a totally different set of rules than either of these. His rules tell him to forget both caps, all of the hoods, both socks, and his trousers, and each successive time he gets dressed, he feels the need to do it differently.)

===Some more workarounds regarding Size, Permit, and Layering===
Let's say you want to kit out your soldier's upper body. Try walking through this in arena mode to get a feel for it.

You start off with a [[steel]] breastplate. This has a size of '''20''' and a permit of '''50'''. It is also '''shaped''', so you can't add any other shaped items: no more breastplates and no [[leather]] armor.

Now, you want to add mail shirts. Each one has a permit of '''50''' and a size of '''15'''. You can add three of these if you want. It checks the size against each of the armor pieces' permit + size (or rather, the permit value ignoring that item's size in the calculation) like so:
* Against each of the mail shirts, you have '''2 x 15 = 30''' total size in mail shirts and '''+ 20''' from the breastplate, matching the '''50''' permit.
* Against the breastplate, you have '''3 x 15 = 45 < 50''', which is fine.
Now, if you add a fourth mail shirt, these tests will fail. However, because of the layering order (mail shirts being armor layer 2, the breastplate armor layer 3), the breastplate is added after the shirts. This results in the breastplate being dropped.

Because this reaches the '''50''' permit limit for the mail shirts, you can't add more non-cover items without substituting them for existing items. If you want a robe (size '''20'''), for example, you need to remove two of the mail shirts to clear a total size of '''30''', which then lets you add an extra size '''10''' shirt, vest, or whatever.

However, you can add cover layer items - in this case, cloaks. Each cloak has a size of '''15''' and a permit of '''150'''. Taking into account the '''50''' size already on the upper body, we can add '''100''' size worth of cloaks. This lets us add '''6''' ('''x 15 = 90''') cloaks over the existing armor.

Going through armor like this for the rest of the body (most of it is simpler) gives you a final setup of:

'''Armor''' 
3 × mail shirts 
1 × breastplate 
6 × cloaks 
16 x capes

'''Armor (no foreign items)''' 
3 × mail shirts 
1 × breastplate 
6 × cloaks

'''Armor (cheap)''' 
6 × dress 
3 × robe 
3 × cloak 

'''Legs''' 
3 × long skirts 
1 × greaves

'''Legs (no foreign items)''' 
2 × trousers 
1 × greaves

'''Legs (cheap)''' 
2 × trousers 
1 × leggings

'''Helm''' 
1 × helm 
8 × hood

'''Gloves''' 
1 × pairs of gauntlets 
1 × pairs of mittens

'''Gloves (cheap)''' 
2 × pairs of gloves 
1 × pairs of mittens

'''Boots †''' 
1 × pairs of chausses 
1 × pairs of high boots

'''Boots (no foreign items) †''' 
1 × pairs of socks 
1 × pairs of high boots

'''Boots (cheap) †''' 
1 × pairs of socks 
1 × pairs of shoes

To produce a set of full armor for a single dwarf (assuming you use no foreign items), you would require 14 metal bars and 16 units of cloth (or silk or yarn).

Of course, so long as the bugs are still around, we are likely to see dwarves wearing more than this or refusing to put parts on because they found their boots before their socks.

''Note: "Cheap" implies the sets can be made from secondary materials such as bone and cloth, with item types not overlapping with the other, more combat-oriented sets that use metal, leather, and cloth (for socks). As a rule of thumb, combat sets provide better protection, but cheap sets are lighter and easier to mass-produce.''

† It appears that equipping footwear on one foot can affect what can be equipped on the other. For example, if a uniform calls for socks and high boots, a dwarf will only equip 3 of those 4 items between both of his feet.

==Coverage==

The value of coverage of an armor piece is the percentage probability that an attack made against a body part covered by said armor piece actually hits the armor. Example: Helms and caps both cover only the head (facial features excluded). 100% of attacks against the head of a helm-wearing dwarf are affected by the helm's protective capabilities because helms have 100% coverage. In the case of a cap-wearing dwarf, only 50% of attacks made against the head are affected by the cap - the remaining 50% bypass it and land directly on the head because caps have only 50% coverage. The value of coverage has an additional role in determining how well the armor protects against contaminants and temperature effects.

By default, armor pieces cover only a single body part, at which they are 'anchored' (hands, feet, lower body, upper body, or head){{verify}}. Their coverage is extended to other body parts using the following three tags:

:'''[UBSTEP]'''
This token, when applied to torso armor, controls how far 'up' the body an item of armor reaches. Basically, you can think of it as going out in stages along the body. It doesn't cover legs. It doesn't cover body parts with certain tags (notably [HEAD], [GRASP] and [STANCE], or the head). It can cover the children of such body parts (such as parts of the face) if it extends beyond them. The upper body and lower body are counted as 0 steps away, so both are always covered.

Breastplates have a default of 0, meaning they only cover the torso. 
Mail shirts have [UBSTEP:1], so they cover the upper arms and neck.

A number of clothing items have [UBSTEP:MAX]. What exactly this covers depends on a certain bug, but unless you are making adamantine robes, you probably won't get that much extra protection this way anyway. This would mean, for example, they would cover the upper arm and then lower arm, skip the hand, and then cover the fingers. The same goes for facial features after skipping the head and the toes after skipping the entire legs and feet. 
The clothes with these properties seem to be robes, cloaks, coats, shirts, and dresses. However, of these, only robes and dresses also have [LBSTEP:MAX] (see below), so I'm not sure if anything else would actually cover toes or not. This needs additional testing.

Testing in arena: in three battles with 15x15 dwarves where both sides was equipped with iron battle axes and iron full armor and one of the teams was enforced with leather robes, the team with robes was victorious (2-3 survivors).

:'''[LBSTEP]'''
This token, when applied to torso armor or pants, controls how much of the legs an item covers. Legs in this case are defined as [LIMB] body parts that end in a [STANCE] body part (e.g. foot). Arms are [LIMB]s but end in a [GRASP] hand instead. Because the upper and lower body are effectively zero steps from each other, torso armor can extend this way easily.

Both greaves and leggings have [LBSTEP:MAX] and so cover the entire leg to the best of their ability. 
[[File:Armor Coverage Chart.png|thumb|450px|Dwarven armor coverage chart]]
Mail shirts have [LBSTEP:1] and so can protect the upper legs. A range of other clothes (including cloaks) and leather armor also have this.
As mentioned above, robes and dresses have [LBSTEP:MAX] and so cover the entire legs. These also have [UBSTEP:MAX] and so cover the entire body. Although not the strongest armor, a leather (or maybe adamantine?) robe or dress gives you maximum coverage.

:'''[UPSTEP]'''
This token, when applied to gloves or shoes, determines how far up the limb the armor protects. As with [LBSTEP], this doesn't cover anything but the [LIMB] tag body parts, but it does cover arms as well as legs.

Low boots literally only cover the foot. 
High boots have [UPSTEP:1], so they cover the lower leg. If you consider that the upper legs can covered by [LBSTEP] from above, you can effectively have an entire layer of chain armor on the legs from high boots and a mail shirt even before adding leg armor. This is why I go with greaves for a plate layer.
Gauntlets have [UPSTEP:1], so they cover the lower arms. Because there is no other protection for arms like there is for legs, you need gauntlets and mail shirts to protect your arms fully.
Chausses are a very rare sock substitute, but they are the only items to have [UPSTEP:MAX] and so offer full leg coverage while being exactly the same size as regular socks. They are the perfect undergarment.

The whole method is pretty nifty, even though faces can't be covered by head armor. This means that mouths, noses, eyes, and cheeks are as vulnerable as if you were not wearing anything at all, even if the name of an article of clothing would normally imply that it protects them. This also applies to teeth, lips, and ears.

Toes and fingers are protected by the relevant armor type (e.g. gauntlets cover fingers, and boots cover toes).

== Other Restrictions ==

In fortress mode, "under" layers cannot be put on over "over" layers, so, for instance, a dwarf cannot put on socks unless it first removes its shoes. They can wear over layers without putting an under layer on first, which explains their fondness for "going commando" (trousers without loincloth). Dwarves will only put on the specific armor they are told to put on unless they are not told what to wear.

Also, if you do not tell dwarves to replace clothing with a uniform, they will wear it alongside the uniform and possibly come into conflict with layering and sizes/permits, making them unable to wear assigned items. In particular, caps conflict with helms (both are shaped items), and shoes are too large to fit inside boots.

Military dwarves have a "pecking order" for equipment. The captain of the first squad created has first dibs, followed by their underlings in order, followed by the second squad, etc...

In adventurer mode, you have direct control over what armor you put on, and they are only limited by permit and "one only" (shaped) restrictions. This means you can wear three suits of mail (total size 45) plus another suit of chain or plate on top of them. On top of this, you can add six cloaks.

== Bugs ==
In fortress mode, it is possible to have (at least) 3 shields equipped.

* Soldiers do not replace tattered clothing that is part of a uniform.{{bug|6039}}
* Getting military dwarves to put on all their assigned equipment can be iffy. Boots are especially problematic (possibly related to the adventure mode bug above).{{bug|535}}

{{Translation
| dwarven = tosid
| elvish = datome
| goblin = nuklat
| human = stalcon
}}

{{Industry}}

{{Category|Armor|0}}
[[ru:Armor]]

Clothing

2023-01-09T07:29:29Z

Halavus: Removed migrated tag and changed shortcut to menu icon template

{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{av}}
:''For making clothes, see [[Textile industry]]''
:''For clothing coverage, see [[Armor#Types of Protection]]''
[[File:clothing_preview.jpg|thumb|300px|right|Clothing from the olden times.]]'''Clothes''' are items made out of [[cloth]] or [[leather]], and worn and owned by sapient creatures. While similar to [[armor]], clothes have an armor level of 0, and will wear out over time. Some wearable leather items, including leather armor, helms, and boots truly are armor and will not be worn by civilians.

== Uses ==
The primary reason civilians wear clothing is for modesty, see the [[Clothing#Thoughts|thoughts]] section below for details. Some dwarves will also [[need]] to be extravagant, so clothing with [[quality]] or [[decoration]] bonuses will satisfy that. A particular benefit of footwear is to keep your dwarves from stepping barefoot in [[contaminant]]s that can be dangerous.

Due to the multiple [[value]] modifiers that can apply to finished clothing, they can be useful as a [[trade]] good - even tattered clothing can fetch a fair price, so such clothes can be useful twice.

Clothing provides much less protection against attacks than armor, especially from metal weapons, but leather clothing can provide significant protection from smaller animal attacks. Currently, clothing provides no protection from cold environments.

== Creation ==
Clothing can be made from cloth at a [[clothier's shop]] or leather at a [[leather works]]. It will be [[size]]d for the creature that does the job, see the size section next for details. Dye cannot be applied to clothing - to make dyed clothes, the cloth used to make clothes or the thread used to make the cloth must be dyed first. Clothing usually worn in pairs, like mittens, shoes and socks, will be made in pairs, though the quality levels of the two created items can differ. Currently, any clothing job consumes one whole unit of cloth or leather, regardless of the size of the piece(s) produced.

To maximize value, use a custom stockpile to collect high-quality dyed cloth and link it to a clothier's workshop producing dresses or robes, and assign the workshop to a skilled worker.

Remember that certain items produced at a [[leather works]] constitute leather [[armor]] rather than clothing. This includes "leather armor" (referring to leather upper-body armor), leather leggings, leather boots (high and low), and leather helms. This distinction is significant because these items will not be automatically picked up and equipped by civilians, will not wear out (but can of course suffer wear in combat), and must be stored in [[armor]] stockpiles rather than [[finished goods]] stockpiles as detailed below.

== Size ==
Clothing and armor all have a size associated with them, and equipment made for one size of creature cannot be worn by sufficiently larger or smaller creatures - the acceptable range is between ±1/7th of the creature's size. [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140544.msg6843526#msg6843526 FotF Reply] For dwarves, this applies to clothes and armor worn by [[human]]s and [[troll]]s (which will appear to be ''large''*) as well as [[kobold]]s (which will appear to be ''small''); [[goblin]]s and [[elf|elves]] are the same size as dwarves, so their clothing and armor can be equipped rather than being limited to [[Melt item|melt]]ing (in the case of metal armor) or using as [[trade]] goods (especially once [[Decoration|decorate]]d).

:''(*) Note one exception due to terminology: items made from leather from [[large rat]]s will appear as "large rat leather ______". Human-sized gloves made from large rat leather would be "large large rat leather gloves." (There are no non-large "rats" that provide leather, so while confusing, this is unambiguous.)''

Any clothing/armor that isn't ''large'' or ''small'' is one-size-fits-all, and can be worn by any dwarf, from the smallest child to the biggest adult.

Your dwarves can create clothing and armor in any size to accommodate the needs of non-dwarven fortress residents. To do so, request the clothing or armor to be made from their respective workshops, then click the magnifying glass for the task in the workshop or in the work order menu to specify the size. Alternatively, clothing made by a creature will be automatically sized for that creature. Sizing clothing for cougar or hyena men allows it to be worn by both humans and the dwarf-sized races.

== Storage ==
Clothes are [[finished goods]], and will be stored in a finished goods [[stockpile]] if not claimed by dwarves, optionally in [[bin]]s. Items of clothing can be filtered within a stockpile according to where they are worn on the body, and are classified as armor (referring to upper-body clothing, not protective [[armor]] which must be stored in an [[armor]] [[stockpile]]), handwear, footwear, headwear, or legwear.

Dwarves will store their personal clothing in their [[room]]s, either directly on the floor, or in [[cabinet]]s. [[Personality_trait#ORDERLINESS|Tidy]] dwarves will rarely relinquish their tattered clothing, instead accumulating a large collection of worn clothes in their rooms. Owned clothing cannot be claimed or hauled by other dwarves, though if not currently worn or in the owners quarters, it will eventually revert to unowned after one season, making it available.

Note that owned clothing stored in [[cabinet]]s zoned as part of a dwarf bedroom will never revert to an unowned state in the current version, which can lead to a large amount of tattered clothing gradually accumulating throughout you fortress [[bedroom]]s. See the bugs section below for more information.

== Wear ==
Clothing [[wear]]s out over time; while worn, it gains one level of wear every two years. While stored properly, either in a (non-refuse) stockpile or a dwarf's personal quarters, it will degrade very slowly (one wear level per century, automatically reduced to one wear level per 20 years if using [[DFHack]]). Worn clothing can quickly begin accumulating in a high population fort, and can be traded away or destroyed. Note that [[Item_quality#Quality_grades|masterful]] items of clothing destroyed via [[atom smasher]] or magma may generate unhappy thoughts for its creator, even if the item is worn out.

Clothing in a [[refuse]] stockpile will degrade very quickly, which is another way to dispose of worn or lower quality items cluttering up a fortress. One strategy to facilitate this is to designate a [[Activity_zone#Garbage_Dump|garbage dump activity zone]] over a refuse stockpile, and then marking all the discarded clothing for dumping. Owned clothing won't be collected immediately, but may eventually revert to unowned as detailed above, and then dumped. In addition, opening the Labor organizer {{menu icon|y}}, navigating to the Standing orders and then Refuse and dumping tabs, and selecting ''Workers dump other objects'' will automate dwarves dumping worn-out clothing, and other degraded items.

Note that clothing can also be damaged if the wearer takes damage, especially if the attack penetrates or from harder materials. This is all true even for clothing made from [[Adamantine|special]] cloth.

Dwarves will try to replace their worn clothing themselves, if appropriate clothing is available in the fortress. ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124350.msg4133470#msg4133470 supporting bay12 forum post])

===== Managing Clothing =====

Producing new clothing sufficient to keep up with the dwarves of a large and bustling fortress is an ongoing endeavor, as items of clothing will wear out at different times. Even after establishing a sufficient [[textile industry]] or [[trading]] for raw materials, dwarves will constantly wear out their currently equipped items and new clothes will need to be manufactured.

In addition to the strategy above, another way to organize production and reduce the prevalence of rogue, abandoned clothing is to create two [[finished goods]] [[stockpiles]]. Be sure both stockpiles allow the "armor," footwear," "handwear," "headware," and "legwear" categories in order to accept clothing, with the relevant materials and quality allowed.

The first stockpile is for New Clothes only, and will be filled only with new clothes you create. It has the "take items from anywhere" toggle turned off, and is assigned to ''only'' take items from the [[clothier's shop]] workshop. Both of these rules can be adjusted via the icons in the top right of the respective stockpile settings menu. If you assign skilled clothiers and sufficient production, this stockpile will quickly begin accumulating high quality clothes that can be picked up by your dwarves to wear (or to be traded away).

The second stockpile is for Used Clothes, and will collect worn, unowned clothes as well as those from sources other than your [[clothier's shop]]. To do this it has the "take items from anywhere" toggle turned on, so that any unowned clothes around the fortress will be hauled here by dwarves. Many worn items will accumulate here.

Now you can always create a third stockpile with similar rules near your [[trade depot]]. This stockpile can have the "take items from anywhere" toggle turned off, and be assigned to ''only'' take items from your Used Clothes stockpile. Now dwarves will haul all the worn clothing (and probably a few less-worn items collected from elsewhere) to bins in the stockpile ''very near'' the trade depot, making them easy to identify and trade away (as the distance to the trade depot will be very low in comparison to all the other bins in your fortress). This has the advantage of allowing for disposal of worn out [[Item_quality#Quality_grades|masterful]] quality items, which can be freely traded away without causing negative thoughts for their creators.

== Thoughts ==
Adult dwarves get unhappy thoughts if they are naked, or wearing tattered clothes. Babies do not wear clothes, but all adult and child dwarves will claim and wear clothing when available automatically. Dwarves may incur several different clothing-related bad thoughts from:
* Total nudity
* Missing upper body covering (shirt, vest, dress, robe, cloak, or coat)
* Missing lower body covering (trousers or skirts)
* Missing footwear (shoes, sandals, or socks)
* Wearing tattered clothing (items with "X" or "XX" wear, but not lowercase "x" wear)

Clothing thoughts are quite strong, and stack with each other. [[Tantrum spiral]]s are likely unless you produce sufficient footwear, upper-, and lower-body-covering items. Thankfully, [[armor]] assigned to the relevant body areas will also prevent negative thoughts, and has the advantage of not being subject to wear, in addition to affording better protection. If you tell your militia-dwarves to replace normal clothes with their uniform, make sure you have armor to spare when conscripting <s>cannon fodder</s> legendary [[cheese maker]]s, as they'll happily strip naked even if you don't have a uniform waiting for them. You can also include a layer of cloth "armor", leggings, and especially socks in the mix to prevent nudity unhappiness in case of a shortage of real armor, but be warned: your dwarves will not automatically replace worn uniform-assigned clothing, leading your clothing-equipped militia dwarves to a different set of unhappy thoughts.

If you find it easier to produce plenty of [[armor]] instead of clothing, you can also group all your civilian dwarves into squads and assign them a uniform covering the basics. This not only ensures you don't have to offer them replacement clothes, but also ensures your entire population is at least slightly better protected. Having everybody grouped up into squads also might come in handy <s>if</s> when something nasty shows up in the midst of your civilians while your soldiers are busy elsewhere. The disadvantage of this is that the heavier armor may slow the civilian dwarves down.

==Bugs==

*Dwarves drop worn clothing wherever they happen to be when they decide to pick up replacements. These discarded clothes can interfere with stockpiles, workshops, build orders, etc.{{bug|6048}}, and are owned items so they can't be easily moved.{{bug|4403}} Dwarves will return later to collect the clothing, which can be particularly dangerous around [[trap design|traps]], battlefields and [[minecart]] tracks.
*Dwarves amass a large collection of discarded clothing in their rooms, filling all [[cabinet]]s and covering every available tile.{{bug|7680}} Forbidding the items will clear their ownership after some weeks.{{cite forum|173188/7926370}} [[Utility:DFHack|DFHack]] provides a "cleanowned" command to help clean up the clutter.
*Worn clothing issued by a military uniform is not replaced. {{bug|6039}}

==Sock Obsession==
{{D for Dwarf}}

[[Image:deadly sock.png|thumb|right|Minotaurs like socks too.]]This was the beginning of the dwarven obsession with socks. Long ago, socks were plentiful in dwarven kingdoms across the land, and the bearded ones paid little heed to what adorned their feet. But after the proud citadel of Nogrithog destroyed itself in a terrible civil war over a dispute concerning sock shortages, the production of which they were completely and utterly ignorant, the entire dwarf race everywhere in the universe vowed to never let this happen again. Dwarves made sure to stockpile woolen, silken, and even cloth footwear against the unthinkable happening ever again. Children were frightened with the story of the Great Sock War even before they stopped suckling at their mothers' breasts to indoctrinate them in proper sock hoarding behavior, and to get unruly children to behave: "If you don't stop pulling Catten's braids, Sibrek, all the socks will disappear!"

So great is the dwarves' fear of a sock shortage that they will sacrifice their own well-being and even their very lives to make sure that not a single sock will go overlooked. It is unknown how dwarves everywhere could possibly know how one dwarven civilization in a remote and utterly unimportant continent on a forgotten minor world destroyed itself. Most believe that this is once more the touch of Armok on their sodden, constantly intoxicated brains.

The bond between a dwarf and his socks is both wondrous and terrible. The most hardened warrior finds his socks so warm and comforting that he is frequently seen wearing but a single boot -- why should he need steel to protect his other foot? He already has a sock on it! Upon losing his unarmored foot to a goblin's blade, he will console himself in the knowledge that at least his foot still has its sock on.

{{Category|Items}}
{{Category|Adventurer mode}}
{{Category|Clothing| }}
[[ru:Clothing]]

Clothing

2023-01-09T07:04:16Z

Halavus: /* Creation */ Small precisions and updated Workshop Profile mention

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{av}}
:''For making clothes, see [[Textile industry]]''
:''For clothing coverage, see [[Armor#Types of Protection]]''
[[File:clothing_preview.jpg|thumb|300px|right|Clothing from the olden times.]]'''Clothes''' are items made out of [[cloth]] or [[leather]], and worn and owned by sapient creatures. While similar to [[armor]], clothes have an armor level of 0, and will wear out over time. Some wearable leather items, including leather armor, helms, and boots truly are armor and will not be worn by civilians.

== Uses ==
The primary reason civilians wear clothing is for modesty, see the [[Clothing#Thoughts|thoughts]] section below for details. Some dwarves will also [[need]] to be extravagant, so clothing with [[quality]] or [[decoration]] bonuses will satisfy that. A particular benefit of footwear is to keep your dwarves from stepping barefoot in [[contaminant]]s that can be dangerous.

Due to the multiple [[value]] modifiers that can apply to finished clothing, they can be useful as a [[trade]] good - even tattered clothing can fetch a fair price, so such clothes can be useful twice.

Clothing provides much less protection against attacks than armor, especially from metal weapons, but leather clothing can provide significant protection from smaller animal attacks. Currently, clothing provides no protection from cold environments.

== Creation ==
Clothing can be made from cloth at a [[clothier's shop]] or leather at a [[leather works]]. It will be [[size]]d for the creature that does the job, see the size section next for details. Dye cannot be applied to clothing - to make dyed clothes, the cloth used to make clothes or the thread used to make the cloth must be dyed first. Clothing usually worn in pairs, like mittens, shoes and socks, will be made in pairs, though the quality levels of the two created items can differ. Currently, any clothing job consumes one whole unit of cloth or leather, regardless of the size of the piece(s) produced.

To maximize value, use a custom stockpile to collect high-quality dyed cloth and link it to a clothier's workshop producing dresses or robes, and assign the workshop to a skilled worker.

Remember that certain items produced at a [[leather works]] constitute leather [[armor]] rather than clothing. This includes "leather armor" (referring to leather upper-body armor), leather leggings, leather boots (high and low), and leather helms. This distinction is significant because these items will not be automatically picked up and equipped by civilians, will not wear out (but can of course suffer wear in combat), and must be stored in [[armor]] stockpiles rather than [[finished goods]] stockpiles as detailed below.

== Size ==
Clothing and armor all have a size associated with them, and equipment made for one size of creature cannot be worn by sufficiently larger or smaller creatures - the acceptable range is between ±1/7th of the creature's size. [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140544.msg6843526#msg6843526 FotF Reply] For dwarves, this applies to clothes and armor worn by [[human]]s and [[troll]]s (which will appear to be ''large''*) as well as [[kobold]]s (which will appear to be ''small''); [[goblin]]s and [[elf|elves]] are the same size as dwarves, so their clothing and armor can be equipped rather than being limited to [[Melt item|melt]]ing (in the case of metal armor) or using as [[trade]] goods (especially once [[Decoration|decorate]]d).

:''(*) Note one exception due to terminology: items made from leather from [[large rat]]s will appear as "large rat leather ______". Human-sized gloves made from large rat leather would be "large large rat leather gloves." (There are no non-large "rats" that provide leather, so while confusing, this is unambiguous.)''

Any clothing/armor that isn't ''large'' or ''small'' is one-size-fits-all, and can be worn by any dwarf, from the smallest child to the biggest adult.

Your dwarves can create clothing and armor in any size to accommodate the needs of non-dwarven fortress residents. To do so, request the clothing or armor to be made from their respective workshops, then click the magnifying glass for the task in the workshop or in the work order menu to specify the size. Alternatively, clothing made by a creature will be automatically sized for that creature. Sizing clothing for cougar or hyena men allows it to be worn by both humans and the dwarf-sized races.

== Storage ==
Clothes are [[finished goods]], and will be stored in a finished goods [[stockpile]] if not claimed by dwarves, optionally in [[bin]]s. Items of clothing can be filtered within a stockpile according to where they are worn on the body, and are classified as armor (referring to upper-body clothing, not protective [[armor]] which must be stored in an [[armor]] [[stockpile]]), handwear, footwear, headwear, or legwear.

Dwarves will store their personal clothing in their [[room]]s, either directly on the floor, or in [[cabinet]]s. [[Personality_trait#ORDERLINESS|Tidy]] dwarves will rarely relinquish their tattered clothing, instead accumulating a large collection of worn clothes in their rooms. Owned clothing cannot be claimed or hauled by other dwarves, though if not currently worn or in the owners quarters, it will eventually revert to unowned after one season, making it available.

Note that owned clothing stored in [[cabinet]]s zoned as part of a dwarf bedroom will never revert to an unowned state in the current version, which can lead to a large amount of tattered clothing gradually accumulating throughout you fortress [[bedroom]]s. See the bugs section below for more information.

== Wear ==
Clothing [[wear]]s out over time; while worn, it gains one level of wear every two years. While stored properly, either in a (non-refuse) stockpile or a dwarf's personal quarters, it will degrade very slowly (one wear level per century, automatically reduced to one wear level per 20 years if using [[DFHack]]). Worn clothing can quickly begin accumulating in a high population fort, and can be traded away or destroyed. Note that [[Item_quality#Quality_grades|masterful]] items of clothing destroyed via [[atom smasher]] or magma may generate unhappy thoughts for its creator, even if the item is worn out.

Clothing in a [[refuse]] stockpile will degrade very quickly, which is another way to dispose of worn or lower quality items cluttering up a fortress. One strategy to facilitate this is to designate a [[Activity_zone#Garbage_Dump|garbage dump activity zone]] over a refuse stockpile, and then marking all the discarded clothing for dumping. Owned clothing won't be collected immediately, but may eventually revert to unowned as detailed above, and then dumped. In addition, opening the Labor organizer {{k|y}}, navigating to the Standing orders and then Refuse and dumping tabs, and selecting ''Workers dump other objects'' will automate dwarves dumping worn-out clothing, and other degraded items.

Note that clothing can also be damaged if the wearer takes damage, especially if the attack penetrates or from harder materials. This is all true even for clothing made from [[Adamantine|special]] cloth.

Dwarves will try to replace their worn clothing themselves, if appropriate clothing is available in the fortress. ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124350.msg4133470#msg4133470 supporting bay12 forum post])

===== Managing Clothing =====

Producing new clothing sufficient to keep up with the dwarves of a large and bustling fortress is an ongoing endeavor, as items of clothing will wear out at different times. Even after establishing a sufficient [[textile industry]] or [[trading]] for raw materials, dwarves will constantly wear out their currently equipped items and new clothes will need to be manufactured.

In addition to the strategy above, another way to organize production and reduce the prevalence of rogue, abandoned clothing is to create two [[finished goods]] [[stockpiles]]. Be sure both stockpiles allow the "armor," footwear," "handwear," "headware," and "legwear" categories in order to accept clothing, with the relevant materials and quality allowed.

The first stockpile is for New Clothes only, and will be filled only with new clothes you create. It has the "take items from anywhere" toggle turned off, and is assigned to ''only'' take items from the [[clothier's shop]] workshop. Both of these rules can be adjusted via the icons in the top right of the respective stockpile settings menu. If you assign skilled clothiers and sufficient production, this stockpile will quickly begin accumulating high quality clothes that can be picked up by your dwarves to wear (or to be traded away).

The second stockpile is for Used Clothes, and will collect worn, unowned clothes as well as those from sources other than your [[clothier's shop]]. To do this it has the "take items from anywhere" toggle turned on, so that any unowned clothes around the fortress will be hauled here by dwarves. Many worn items will accumulate here.

Now you can always create a third stockpile with similar rules near your [[trade depot]]. This stockpile can have the "take items from anywhere" toggle turned off, and be assigned to ''only'' take items from your Used Clothes stockpile. Now dwarves will haul all the worn clothing (and probably a few less-worn items collected from elsewhere) to bins in the stockpile ''very near'' the trade depot, making them easy to identify and trade away (as the distance to the trade depot will be very low in comparison to all the other bins in your fortress). This has the advantage of allowing for disposal of worn out [[Item_quality#Quality_grades|masterful]] quality items, which can be freely traded away without causing negative thoughts for their creators.

== Thoughts ==
Adult dwarves get unhappy thoughts if they are naked, or wearing tattered clothes. Babies do not wear clothes, but all adult and child dwarves will claim and wear clothing when available automatically. Dwarves may incur several different clothing-related bad thoughts from:
* Total nudity
* Missing upper body covering (shirt, vest, dress, robe, cloak, or coat)
* Missing lower body covering (trousers or skirts)
* Missing footwear (shoes, sandals, or socks)
* Wearing tattered clothing (items with "X" or "XX" wear, but not lowercase "x" wear)

Clothing thoughts are quite strong, and stack with each other. [[Tantrum spiral]]s are likely unless you produce sufficient footwear, upper-, and lower-body-covering items. Thankfully, [[armor]] assigned to the relevant body areas will also prevent negative thoughts, and has the advantage of not being subject to wear, in addition to affording better protection. If you tell your militia-dwarves to replace normal clothes with their uniform, make sure you have armor to spare when conscripting <s>cannon fodder</s> legendary [[cheese maker]]s, as they'll happily strip naked even if you don't have a uniform waiting for them. You can also include a layer of cloth "armor", leggings, and especially socks in the mix to prevent nudity unhappiness in case of a shortage of real armor, but be warned: your dwarves will not automatically replace worn uniform-assigned clothing, leading your clothing-equipped militia dwarves to a different set of unhappy thoughts.

If you find it easier to produce plenty of [[armor]] instead of clothing, you can also group all your civilian dwarves into squads and assign them a uniform covering the basics. This not only ensures you don't have to offer them replacement clothes, but also ensures your entire population is at least slightly better protected. Having everybody grouped up into squads also might come in handy <s>if</s> when something nasty shows up in the midst of your civilians while your soldiers are busy elsewhere. The disadvantage of this is that the heavier armor may slow the civilian dwarves down.

==Bugs==

*Dwarves drop worn clothing wherever they happen to be when they decide to pick up replacements. These discarded clothes can interfere with stockpiles, workshops, build orders, etc.{{bug|6048}}, and are owned items so they can't be easily moved.{{bug|4403}} Dwarves will return later to collect the clothing, which can be particularly dangerous around [[trap design|traps]], battlefields and [[minecart]] tracks.
*Dwarves amass a large collection of discarded clothing in their rooms, filling all [[cabinet]]s and covering every available tile.{{bug|7680}} Forbidding the items will clear their ownership after some weeks.{{cite forum|173188/7926370}} [[Utility:DFHack|DFHack]] provides a "cleanowned" command to help clean up the clutter.
*Worn clothing issued by a military uniform is not replaced. {{bug|6039}}

==Sock Obsession==
{{D for Dwarf}}

[[Image:deadly sock.png|thumb|right|Minotaurs like socks too.]]This was the beginning of the dwarven obsession with socks. Long ago, socks were plentiful in dwarven kingdoms across the land, and the bearded ones paid little heed to what adorned their feet. But after the proud citadel of Nogrithog destroyed itself in a terrible civil war over a dispute concerning sock shortages, the production of which they were completely and utterly ignorant, the entire dwarf race everywhere in the universe vowed to never let this happen again. Dwarves made sure to stockpile woolen, silken, and even cloth footwear against the unthinkable happening ever again. Children were frightened with the story of the Great Sock War even before they stopped suckling at their mothers' breasts to indoctrinate them in proper sock hoarding behavior, and to get unruly children to behave: "If you don't stop pulling Catten's braids, Sibrek, all the socks will disappear!"

So great is the dwarves' fear of a sock shortage that they will sacrifice their own well-being and even their very lives to make sure that not a single sock will go overlooked. It is unknown how dwarves everywhere could possibly know how one dwarven civilization in a remote and utterly unimportant continent on a forgotten minor world destroyed itself. Most believe that this is once more the touch of Armok on their sodden, constantly intoxicated brains.

The bond between a dwarf and his socks is both wondrous and terrible. The most hardened warrior finds his socks so warm and comforting that he is frequently seen wearing but a single boot -- why should he need steel to protect his other foot? He already has a sock on it! Upon losing his unarmored foot to a goblin's blade, he will console himself in the knowledge that at least his foot still has its sock on.

{{Category|Items}}
{{Category|Adventurer mode}}
{{Category|Clothing| }}
[[ru:Clothing]]

Millstone

2023-01-04T06:29:25Z

Halavus: verified

{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{v50 workshop|name=Millstone|key=M|job=[[Miller|Milling]]
|icon=[[File:millstone_icon.png]]

|construction=
* [[Furniture|Millstone]]
* [[Mechanism]]
|construction_job=
* [[Mechanic]]
|use=
* [[Blade weed]]
* [[Cave wheat]]
* [[Dimple cup]]
* [[Hide root]]
* [[Longland grass]]
* [[Quarry bush|Rock nut]]
* [[Sliver barb]]
* [[Sweet pod]]
* [[Whip vine]]
* An empty [[bag]]
* Cloth [[plant]]s
|production=
* [[Emerald dye]]
* [[Flour|Dwarven wheat flour]]
* [[Dimple dye]]
* [[Redroot dye]]
* [[Flour|Longland flour]]
* [[Quarry bush|Rock nut paste]]
* [[Sliver dye]]
* [[Dwarven sugar]]
* [[Whip vine flour]]
* [[Slurry]]
|power=Needs 10 power.
}}{{av}}

A '''millstone''' is used to grind up certain [[plants]] to make [[sugar]], [[flour]], [[dye]], and [[slurry]]. Each [[milling]] job requires an empty [[bag]]. To operate, it needs to be connected to a mechanical [[power]] source such as a [[water wheel]] or [[windmill]] that supplies it with 10 power units. If none is available, a [[quern]] can be used instead, although millstones process plants much faster than querns. Before they can be placed as a building, you must first construct the millstone at a [[Stoneworker's workshop]].

If the power to the millstone is interrupted, any jobs must be requeued when power is returned. Therefore it is best to have uninterrupted power or at least the ability to run it for a long period of time.

A millstone can be placed in a hanging state, however, it will not actually be constructed as the builder needs to be able to stand on the square on which it is being built. Because of this, a millstone must be powered from above or from the side, not from below in order to be able to complete construction.

Ensuring the exclusive milling of certain plants (to, say, produce only dye, not flour) is quite cumbersome. It requires a stockpile that only allows these plants and setting it to give to the millstone, as it provides no menu to specify what to mill. If you don't set a custom stockpile, the miller will pick the closest random plant, with the usual, occasionally surprising, definition of closest. You also need something like a furniture stockpile that allows only bags, setting that to 'giving' to the millstone too. Deactivate wood, stone and metal as material to avoid it being cluttered with coffers. You still have to ensure somehow that the plants arrive at the right stockpile, for example by not allowing them on any other. Once you got this working repeat for every other plant you want to mill, either switching the 'give' orders every time or setting up a separate millstone for every plant/plant combination.

For general details read [[Stockpile#Give_to_a_stockpile.2Fworkshop|Giving to a Stockpile/Workshop]].

Alternatively, to preserve what little sanity a DF player has left, just forbid all millable plants you don't want milled (for example from the [[stocks]] menu) and (re-)claim them once the milling job is done.

As another alternative, the utility [[Utility:DFHack|DFHack]] provides a "job item-material" command that allows you to specify a plant to mill. For example, to set a quern to only mill dimple cups and ignore other plants, select a quern with a "Mill Plants" task, and issue command "job item-material 1 MUSHROOM_CUP_DIMPLE". This will set the material type of the plant item being milled in the selected quern.

(Selecting "job item-material 2" would select the material type of the bag the dye is stored in.)

This utility is also available as "gui/workshop-job", bound to {{k-|Alt|A}} by default.

[[File:De re metallica 1556-164.png| thumb| Silly humans using a mechanically powered millstone to grind stuff.]]

==An Example Setup==
As it is most efficient to set up workshops near their materials sources, usually by putting stockpiles next to them, it's common for millstones to be set up near farm plots. Putting a millstone just under the surface lets it be powered by a windmill on the surface, like so:

::{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Side view'''
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #970; padding: 0; text-decoration: underline"|-
|style="color: #970; padding: 0; text-decoration: underline"|=
|style="color: #970; padding: 0; text-decoration: underline"|-
| 
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|-
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|=
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|-
| 
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="text-decoration: underline"| 
|style="text-decoration: underline"|*
|style="text-decoration: underline"| 
|
|style="text-decoration: underline"| 
|style="text-decoration: underline"|*
|style="text-decoration: underline"| 
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|
|1
|
|
|
|2
|
|}
Note that version 1 only works if the windmill is built first, and version 2 only works if the millstone is built first.

''For a basic overview of how the different machine parts work and work together, see [[machinery]].''

==Bugs==
* Dwarves will occasionally combine two separate mill products in the same bag.{{bug|4371}}

{{Workshops}}
{{buildings}}

Millstone

2023-01-04T06:06:12Z

Halavus: updated to

{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{v50 workshop|name=Millstone|key=M|job=[[Miller|Milling]]
|icon=[[File:millstone_icon.png]]

|construction=
* [[Furniture|Millstone]]
* [[Mechanism]]
|construction_job=
* [[Mechanic]]
|use=
* [[Blade weed]]
* [[Cave wheat]]
* [[Dimple cup]]
* [[Hide root]]
* [[Longland grass]]
* [[Quarry bush|Rock nut]]
* [[Sliver barb]]
* [[Sweet pod]]
* [[Whip vine]]
* An empty [[bag]]
* Cloth [[plant]]s
|production=
* [[Emerald dye]]
* [[Flour|Dwarven wheat flour]]
* [[Dimple dye]]
* [[Redroot dye]]
* [[Flour|Longland flour]]
* [[Quarry bush|Rock nut paste]]
* [[Sliver dye]]
* [[Dwarven sugar]]
* [[Whip vine flour]]
* [[Slurry]]
|power=Needs 10 power.
}}{{av}}

A '''millstone''' is used to grind up certain [[plants]] to make [[sugar]], [[flour]], [[dye]], and [[slurry]]. Each [[milling]] job requires an empty [[bag]]. To operate, it needs to be connected to a mechanical [[power]] source such as a [[water wheel]] or [[windmill]] that supplies it with 10 power units. If none is available, a [[quern]] can be used instead, although millstones process plants much faster than querns. Before they can be placed as a building, you must first construct the millstone at a [[Stoneworker's workshop]].

If the power to the millstone is interrupted, any jobs must be requeued when power is returned. Therefore it is best to have uninterrupted power or at least the ability to run it for a long period of time.

A millstone can be placed in a hanging state, however, it will not actually be constructed as the builder needs to be able to stand on the square on which it is being built. Because of this, a millstone must be powered from above or from the side, not from below in order to be able to complete construction.

Ensuring the exclusive milling of certain plants (to, say, produce only dye, not flour) is quite cumbersome. It requires a stockpile that only allows these plants and setting it to give to the millstone, as it provides no menu to specify what to mill. If you don't set a custom stockpile, the miller will pick the closest random plant, with the usual, occasionally surprising, definition of closest. You also need something like a furniture stockpile that allows only bags, setting that to 'giving' to the millstone too. Deactivate wood, stone and metal as material to avoid it being cluttered with coffers. You still have to ensure somehow that the plants arrive at the right stockpile, for example by not allowing them on any other. Finally, allow the source stockpile or a third custom stockpile to take the resulting mill product or you will receive the misleading error "needs millable unrotten plants"{{verify}}. Once you got this working repeat for every other plant you want to mill, either switching the 'give' orders every time or setting up a separate millstone for every plant/plant combination.

For general details read [[Stockpile#Give_to_a_stockpile.2Fworkshop|Giving to a Stockpile/Workshop]].

Alternatively, to preserve what little sanity a DF player has left, just forbid all millable plants you don't want milled (for example from the [[stocks]] menu) and (re-)claim them once the milling job is done.

As another alternative, the utility [[Utility:DFHack|DFHack]] provides a "job item-material" command that allows you to specify a plant to mill. For example, to set a quern to only mill dimple cups and ignore other plants, select a quern with a "Mill Plants" task, and issue command "job item-material 1 MUSHROOM_CUP_DIMPLE". This will set the material type of the plant item being milled in the selected quern.

(Selecting "job item-material 2" would select the material type of the bag the dye is stored in.)

This utility is also available as "gui/workshop-job", bound to {{k-|Alt|A}} by default.

[[File:De re metallica 1556-164.png| thumb| Silly humans using a mechanically powered millstone to grind stuff.]]

==An Example Setup==
As it is most efficient to set up workshops near their materials sources, usually by putting stockpiles next to them, it's common for millstones to be set up near farm plots. Putting a millstone just under the surface lets it be powered by a windmill on the surface, like so:

::{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Side view'''
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #970; padding: 0; text-decoration: underline"|-
|style="color: #970; padding: 0; text-decoration: underline"|=
|style="color: #970; padding: 0; text-decoration: underline"|-
| 
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|-
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|=
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|-
| 
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="text-decoration: underline"| 
|style="text-decoration: underline"|*
|style="text-decoration: underline"| 
|
|style="text-decoration: underline"| 
|style="text-decoration: underline"|*
|style="text-decoration: underline"| 
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|
|1
|
|
|
|2
|
|}
Note that version 1 only works if the windmill is built first, and version 2 only works if the millstone is built first.

''For a basic overview of how the different machine parts work and work together, see [[machinery]].''

==Bugs==
* Dwarves will occasionally combine two separate mill products in the same bag.{{bug|4371}}

{{Workshops}}
{{buildings}}

Quern

2023-01-04T06:00:43Z

Halavus:

{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{av}}

{{v50 workshop|name=Quern|key=f|key2=q
|icon=[[File:quern_icon.png]]
|job=
* [[Milling]]
* [[Papermaking]]
|construction=
* [[Furniture|Quern]]
|construction_job=
* [[Milling]]
|use=
* [[Blade weed]]
* [[Cave wheat]]
* [[Dimple cup]]
* [[Hide root]]
* [[Longland grass]]
* [[Quarry bush|Rock nut]]
* [[Sliver barb]]
* [[Sweet pod]]
* [[Whip vine]]
* [[Cotton]]
* [[Flax]]
* [[Hemp]]
* [[Jute]]
* [[Kenaf]]
* [[Pig tail]]
* [[Ramie]]
* [[Rope reed]]
|production=
* [[Flour|Dwarven wheat flour]]
* [[Dwarven sugar]]
* [[Flour|Longland flour]]
* [[Quarry bush|Rock nut paste]]
* [[Whip vine flour]]
* [[Dimple dye]]
* [[Emerald dye]]
* [[Redroot dye]]
* [[Sliver dye]]
* [[Slurry]]
}}

A '''quern''' is a single-square [[workshop]] used to grind certain [[plant]]s into [[sugar]], [[flour]], [[dye]], and [[slurry]]. Each milling job requires an empty [[bag]], as the process will also produce [[seed]]s from plants being milled. Unlike a [[millstone]], the quern is powered by the dwarf using it to perform the labor. A quern must be created at a [[Stoneworker's workshop]] before it can be built as a workshop.

The quern may also be used to mill seeds/nuts to [[Quarry bush|paste]].

Ensuring the exclusive milling of certain plants (to, say, produce only dye, not flour) is cumbersome. It requires a stockpile that only allows these plants and setting it to give to the quern, as it provides no menu to specify what to mill. You also need a furniture stockpile that allows only bags (deactivate wood, stone and metal as material to avoid it being cluttered with coffers,) setting that to 'giving' to the quern too. It doesn't need to be two separate stockpiles, as the custom menu does allow item commingling.

If you don't set custom stockpile(s), the miller will pick the closest random plant and bag, with the usual, occasionally surprising definition of closest. Additionally, you have to ensure somehow that the plants arrive at the right stockpile, for example by not allowing them on any other. Once you got this working, repeat for every other plant you want to mill, either switching the 'give' orders every time or setting up a separate quern for every plant combination.

For general details read [[Stockpile#Give_to_a_stockpile.2Fworkshop|Giving to a Stockpile/Workshop]].

Alternatively, to preserve what little sanity a DF player has left, just forbid all millable plants you don't want milled (for example from the [[stocks]] menu) and (re-)claim them once the milling job is done.

As another alternative, the utility [[Utility:DFHack|DFHack]] provides a "job item-material" command that allows you to specify a plant to mill.

{{Workshops}}

Labor

2023-01-03T18:04:05Z

Halavus: /* Standing orders */ fixed damn link

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{av}}
{{quote|'''"To get a job done, a dwarf has to do it."''' - Boss Urist McOverstates-the-obvious}}[[File:labor_preview.jpg|thumb|220px|right|"Put both your backs into it!"]]'''Labor''' is how jobs get done in a fortress and which labors are enabled for a dwarf determines which jobs they can perform. The skill level and [[attribute]]s of an individual determine how effectively they perform a job, and a dwarf's overall skill levels determine which profession the game assigns to them.

The sprites of the dwarves, humans, elves will represent the profession they are assigned. For example, a woodcutter dwarf will appear as someone constantly carrying an axe, and a miner will appear as someone always carrying a pickaxe.

==Introduction to labor==
*Your dwarves function as semi-autonomous entities, usually fulfilling their own basic needs, and sometimes performing jobs when able.
*Most jobs correspond to a '''labor''' which a dwarf must have enabled to perform.
*Labors are assigned to dwarves in groups called '''work details'''.
*'''Jobs''', the specific tasks to be completed, are created in various ways, including [[designation]]s, [[zone]]s, [[workshop]] tasks, and [[manager]] work orders, and once created, an idle dwarf with that labor enabled will be assigned the job.
*As dwarves perform jobs, their '''skill''' in those areas increase. (The terms labor and skill are '''not''' synonyms. Skill is a measure of proficiency for a given labor, while a labor is the ability to do the work.)
**Some skills don't correspond to jobs, like [[social skills]] and miscellaneous abilities like [[swimming]].

==Labor menu==
The '''Labor''' menu tab is accessed with {{k|y}} or the fourth menu button at the bottom-left of the main [[interface]]. It contains four sub-tabs; [[Labor#Work details|Work details]], [[Labor#Standing orders|Standing orders]], [[Labor#Kitchen|Kitchen]], and [[Labor#Stone use|Stone use]].

===Work details===
The '''Work details''' tab lists the current sets of labors and who is allowed to do them. The work details are listed on the left side of the screen, selecting one shows a list of all labor assignable citizens in your fortress on the right. Each line shows the citizen's name, profession, applicable skill levels for this detail, specialization button, assigned details, and finally a check mark for this selected work detail.

Above the list, each work detail has a setting controlling how it is assigned to citizens:

*When "Only select do this" is selected, the work detail will be assigned to any citizen with a check the rightmost box on their line.
*With "Everybody does this" selected, all citizens in the fortress will have permission to do the work detail's labors. (Any checked boxes will be grey, showing that they are not currently used, but that they would be if the detail were set to "Only select do this".)
*When "Nobody does this" is selected, all citizens in the fortress will be ''banned'' from doing the work detail's labors. This does ''not'' override permission given by other works details. Any check marks/permissions set up before selecting "Nobody does this" will go red, showing that they are paused and they will be restored if you go back to "Only select do this".

Additionally, each citizen has the option to be '''specialized''', this is shown by the hammer and lock icon just to the right of their name (It can also be viewed and interacted with from the {{k|u}} Citizens menu). When this setting is on, the citizen will ignore any "Everybody does this" work detail.

Labors not assigned to ''any'' work detail are treated as "Everybody does this".{{verify}}

====Default work details====
By default the work details, and the labors associated with them, are as follows{{cite forum|180804/8438104}}

{| class="wikitable"
|-
| Miners†
||
* [[Mining]]
|-
| Woodcutters†
||
* [[Woodcutting]]
|-
| Hunters†
||
* [[Hunting]]
|-
| Planters
||
* [[Farming (fields)]]
|-
| Fisherdwarves
||
* [[Fishing]]
|-
| Plant gatherers
||
* [[Plant gathering]]
|-
| Stonecutters
||
* [[Stonecutting]]
|-
| Engravers
||
* [[Stone engraving]]
|-
| Haulers
||
* All [[Hauling]] labors
|-
| Orderlies
||
* [[Suturing]]
* [[Dressing wounds]]
* [[Feed patients/prisoners]]
* [[Recovering wounded]]
|}

† The Mining, Woodcutting, and Hunting labors are only accessible from these default work details.

====Custom work details====
{{TipBox2|titlebg=#dd0|float=right|Utilities|If you would like more control or information for labor assignments, [[Utilities#Dwarf Therapist|Dwarf Therapist]] and/or [[Utility:DFHack|DFHack]] can help, when available.}}
Additional work details can be defined. Click "Add new work detail", select which [[labor]]s will be associated with it, and then click done. You can then rename the new work detail.

There is currently no way to choose the work detail's icon, so you are stuck with what the game chooses. The roman numerals are in the file <code>Dwarf Fortress\data\vanilla\vanilla_interface\graphics\images\interface_bits_labor.png</code> and can be changed, but will still be used in order.

===Standing orders===
See: [[Standing_orders|Standing Orders]]

===Kitchen===

===Stone use===

== Tool requirements ==
For a few specific jobs, a matching '''tool''' is also required for a dwarf to obey the job assignment. Any active [[miner]] needs a [[pick]], any active wood cutter needs a [[battle axe]], and any active [[hunter]] needs a [[crossbow]] (with quiver and bolts). If a labor needs a tool, the labor is considered '''exclusive''' such that you can only assign one of the three labors listed to any single dwarf at any one time.

This means that a dwarf cannot be, for instance, a [[Miner]] and a [[Hunter]] simultaneously, since both labors require a tool. If a dwarf is assigned a tool-labor and another tool-labor was previously assigned to said dwarf, the (old) tool-labor is automatically and silently unassigned, and that tool is immediately dropped where they stand at the time.

Additionally, the assignment of these tools '''overrides''' any [[Squad|uniform]] assigned to a dwarf's [[squad]], so [[military]] dwarves should never be assigned any of the aforementioned labors.

To be used, a tool cannot be [[forbidden]], nor in possession of another dwarf (even one that does not currently have a job), and a [[path]] must be available from the dwarf to that type of tool. If a tool is not available, the dwarf will typically attempt to fulfil other [[need]]s. It is possible, by using locked doors etc. to limit the paths, to force a specific tool to be assigned to a dwarf, but otherwise the tool will be randomly assigned, sometimes involving a dwarf walking long distances and past perfectly useful tools to find the one they think they want.

== Facility requirements ==
Many jobs require a workshop or some other [[Furnace|facility]] in order to be completed. Jobs are designated by way of the workshop, and any dwarf with the corresponding labor associated with the workshop will go to the shop, provided they are not eating, sleeping, drinking, etc..., and begin to complete the task. Most workshop jobs also require some raw materials in order to complete the production.

== Managing labor and demand ==
This can be done from the labor menu {{k|y}} under the [[work detail]]s tab.
* You can view a list of all current, queued, and suspended jobs, as well as which dwarves are doing them, on the {{k|t}}asks menu.
* A [[manager]] is incredibly useful for managing production jobs ([[workshop]] based). They can queue up a significant list of jobs without the need to select the various workshops, and place orders in bulk (or to be repeated). That said, there are some caveats, the most important being that queued jobs must be done in the correct order of materials required, or the orders will auto cancel. Also, you should not assign your manager to labors that are in high demand, as this will keep them from going to their [[office]] to place the orders.
* [[Migrants|Migrating]] dwarves will typically arrive with certain work details already assigned. You will likely want to change these to put them to work in a way that best suits your fortress.

== Advanced labor management and design ==
Managing your dwarves can be a tricky business. If the in-game labor menu is not to your liking, [[Utilities#Dwarf Therapist|Dwarf Therapist]] or [[Utility:DFHack|DFHack]] are both useful tools that assist you in managing your labors.

As your fortress grows, so will your labor pool, and the way you assign that labor will change over time. Typically at embark, you will have at least one Miner, a Wood cutter, Farmer, Carpenter, Mason/Stonecrafter, Cook/Brewer, Mechanic/Architect, one of which will also be a Broker/Appraiser. There are multiple combinations but this is typical (see [[Embark]] and [[Starting build]]). Early on, you will probably want to focus on fortress design and development, such that you will place priority on [[mining]] and [[masonry]], supplemented by [[carpentry]].

In order to maximize the benefit of highly skilled labor, you will eventually want to specialize your labor, such that each dwarf has a very limited number of labors assigned. Keep in mind however, that some dwarves experience minor negative feelings at not being able to perform a craft or a martial art for too long.

Hauling: Nothing can bog down your production like the distraction of hauling jobs. Losing your fort to a siege is [[fun]], but losing because all your skilled laborers spend all their time hauling stuff is no fun. One solution is to use dedicated haulers. The migrants who appear having no skilled labor, and whose attributes pretty much suck all around, aka [[peasant]]s, are best used as dedicated haulers.

== Labor, skill, and product quality ==
The amount of [[experience]] a dwarf has with a certain labor will determine how well they go about performing this labor; the more experience, the greater the skill. Certain job types can be completed more quickly, based on the skill in the labor. There are exceptions, such as [[Health care|nursing]] and [[hauling]] which will never be completed more quickly, regardless of skill.

Certain labors will produce products that have a [[quality]] tag, typically those associated with the production of an item from a workshop. The table below lists in which labors the dwarf's experience will impact the quality of produced items and in which labors a higher experience will only be beneficial for the speed of production.

* Many labors, most notably [[hauling]], have no associated skill, do not generate experience, and do not improve with practice.

==Strange moods==
{{main|Strange mood}}
A dwarf under a strange mood will perform a specific task to create an [[artifact]] that is outside of the player's control. Until they complete the task, both they and the workshop they claim will be unavailable for any labor. If the dwarf cannot complete the artifact, they will go [[insane]] and be permanently unable to perform any labor.

{{Translation
| dwarven = èrith
| elvish = equa
| goblin = akul
| human = ebe
}}

==List of labors==

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" class="wikitable"
! Category !! Labors !! Benefits of higher skill
|-
| Mining ||
* [[Mining]]
| speed only
|-
| rowspan=3 |Woodworker ||
* [[Carpentry]]
| speed; item and furniture quality
|-
|
* [[Crossbow-making]]
| speed; weapon quality
|-
|
* [[Wood cutting]]
| speed only
|-
| rowspan=4 | Stoneworking
||
* [[Masonry]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Stone carving]]
| speed; items and furniture quality
|-
|
* [[Stonecutting]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Stone engraving]]
| speed; engraving quality
|-
| rowspan=5 | Hunting/Related ||
* [[Animal training]]
| speed; training quality
|-
|
* [[Animal care]]
| none (not implemented)
|-
|
* [[Hunting]]
| success rate tends to rise from increasing ambusher and marksdwarf skills
|-
|
* [[Trapping]]
| success rate? trap quality?{{verify}}
|-
|
* [[Small animal dissection]]
| speed only
|-
| [[Healthcare]] (Medical) ||
* [[Diagnosis]]
* [[Surgery]]
* [[Setting bones]]
* [[Suturing]]
* [[Dressing wounds]]
| speed; success chance, accuracy (and speed) of treatment
|-
| [[Healthcare]] (Nursing) ||
* [[Feed patients/prisoners]]
* [[Recovering wounded]]
| none
|-
| rowspan=20 | Farming/Related ||
* [[Butchery]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Tanning]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Farming (fields)]]
| speed; crop yield (stack size)
|-
|
* [[Dyeing]]
| speed; dye quality
|-
|
* [[Gelding]]
| less likely to be injured
|-
|
* [[Soap making]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Wood burning]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Potash making]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Lye making]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Milling]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Brewing]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Plant gathering]]
| speed; success and plant yield (stack size)
|-
|
* [[Plant processing]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Cheese making]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Milking]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Shearing]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Spinning]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Cooking]]
| speed; meal and ingredient quality
|-
|
* [[Pressing]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Beekeeping]]
| speed only{{verify}}
|-
| rowspan=3 | Fishing/Related ||
* [[Fishing]]
| speed; fish stack size
|-
|
* [[Fish cleaning]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Fish dissection]]
| speed only
|-
| rowspan=5 | Metalsmithing ||
* [[Furnace operating]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Weaponsmithing]]
| speed; weapon quality
|-
|
* [[Armoring]]
| speed; armor quality
|-
|
* [[Blacksmithing]]
| speed; item and furniture quality
|-
|
* [[Metalcrafting]]
| speed; craft, item, decoration, designed building quality
|-
| rowspan=2 | Jewelry ||
* [[Gem cutting]]
| speed; gem craft quality
|-
|
* [[Gem setting]]
| speed; decoration quality
|-
| rowspan=13 | Crafts ||
* [[Bookbinder|Bookbinding]]
| ?
|-
|
* [[Papermaker|Papermaking]]
| ?
|-
|
* [[Leatherworker|Leatherworking]]
| speed; clothing, decoration, craft quality
|-
|
* [[Wood crafter|Woodcrafting]]
| speed; craft quality
|-
|
* [[Stone crafter|Stonecrafting]]
| speed; craft quality
|-
|
* [[Bone carving]]
| speed; craft, decoration quality
|-
|
* [[Glassmaking]]
| speed; craft, item, furniture quality
|-
|
* [[Weaver|Weaving]]
| speed; cloth quality
|-
|
* [[Clothier|Clothesmaking]]
| speed; clothing, decoration quality
|-
|
* [[Strand extractor|Strand extraction]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Potter|Pottery]]
| speed; craft, item, furniture quality
|-
|
* [[Glazer|Glazing]]
| speed; glaze quality
|-
|
* [[Wax worker|Wax working]]
| speed; craft quality
|-
| rowspan=4 | Engineering ||
* [[Siege engineer|Siege engineering]]
| speed; part, ammunition quality
|-
|
* [[Siege operator|Siege operating]]
| speed; accuracy
|-
|
* [[Mechanic|Mechanics]]
| speed; mechanism, furniture quality
|-
|
* [[Pump operator|Pump operating]]
| none
|-
| [[Hauling]] ||
* Stone hauling
* Wood hauling
* Item hauling
* Burial
* Food hauling
* Refuse hauling
* Furniture hauling
* [[Hauling#Animal hauling|Animal hauling]]
* Trade Good Hauling
* Water Hauling
* [[Hauling#Push /Haul Vehicle|Push/Haul Vehicle]]
| none
|-
| rowspan=4 | Other Jobs ||
* [[Cleaning]]
| none
|-
|
* [[Lever operation]]
| none
|-
|
* Road building
| none
|-
|
* Wall/floor construction
| none
|}

Some jobs are not associated with a labor: [[food|eat]]ing, [[thirst|drinking]], [[sleep]]ing, going [[on break]], [[party]]ing, [[clean self|cleaning themselves]], and [[rest]]ing.

A few things are listed as "No Job" but can be considered labors in a different sense: running scared, not having a path to any place useful, and being [[insane]].

{{Category|Skills|*}}
{{Category|Interface}}
[[ru:Labor]]

Labor

2023-01-03T18:01:05Z

Halavus: /* Standing orders */ link to dedicated page

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{av}}
{{quote|'''"To get a job done, a dwarf has to do it."''' - Boss Urist McOverstates-the-obvious}}[[File:labor_preview.jpg|thumb|220px|right|"Put both your backs into it!"]]'''Labor''' is how jobs get done in a fortress and which labors are enabled for a dwarf determines which jobs they can perform. The skill level and [[attribute]]s of an individual determine how effectively they perform a job, and a dwarf's overall skill levels determine which profession the game assigns to them.

The sprites of the dwarves, humans, elves will represent the profession they are assigned. For example, a woodcutter dwarf will appear as someone constantly carrying an axe, and a miner will appear as someone always carrying a pickaxe.

==Introduction to labor==
*Your dwarves function as semi-autonomous entities, usually fulfilling their own basic needs, and sometimes performing jobs when able.
*Most jobs correspond to a '''labor''' which a dwarf must have enabled to perform.
*Labors are assigned to dwarves in groups called '''work details'''.
*'''Jobs''', the specific tasks to be completed, are created in various ways, including [[designation]]s, [[zone]]s, [[workshop]] tasks, and [[manager]] work orders, and once created, an idle dwarf with that labor enabled will be assigned the job.
*As dwarves perform jobs, their '''skill''' in those areas increase. (The terms labor and skill are '''not''' synonyms. Skill is a measure of proficiency for a given labor, while a labor is the ability to do the work.)
**Some skills don't correspond to jobs, like [[social skills]] and miscellaneous abilities like [[swimming]].

==Labor menu==
The '''Labor''' menu tab is accessed with {{k|y}} or the fourth menu button at the bottom-left of the main [[interface]]. It contains four sub-tabs; [[Labor#Work details|Work details]], [[Labor#Standing orders|Standing orders]], [[Labor#Kitchen|Kitchen]], and [[Labor#Stone use|Stone use]].

===Work details===
The '''Work details''' tab lists the current sets of labors and who is allowed to do them. The work details are listed on the left side of the screen, selecting one shows a list of all labor assignable citizens in your fortress on the right. Each line shows the citizen's name, profession, applicable skill levels for this detail, specialization button, assigned details, and finally a check mark for this selected work detail.

Above the list, each work detail has a setting controlling how it is assigned to citizens:

*When "Only select do this" is selected, the work detail will be assigned to any citizen with a check the rightmost box on their line.
*With "Everybody does this" selected, all citizens in the fortress will have permission to do the work detail's labors. (Any checked boxes will be grey, showing that they are not currently used, but that they would be if the detail were set to "Only select do this".)
*When "Nobody does this" is selected, all citizens in the fortress will be ''banned'' from doing the work detail's labors. This does ''not'' override permission given by other works details. Any check marks/permissions set up before selecting "Nobody does this" will go red, showing that they are paused and they will be restored if you go back to "Only select do this".

Additionally, each citizen has the option to be '''specialized''', this is shown by the hammer and lock icon just to the right of their name (It can also be viewed and interacted with from the {{k|u}} Citizens menu). When this setting is on, the citizen will ignore any "Everybody does this" work detail.

Labors not assigned to ''any'' work detail are treated as "Everybody does this".{{verify}}

====Default work details====
By default the work details, and the labors associated with them, are as follows{{cite forum|180804/8438104}}

{| class="wikitable"
|-
| Miners†
||
* [[Mining]]
|-
| Woodcutters†
||
* [[Woodcutting]]
|-
| Hunters†
||
* [[Hunting]]
|-
| Planters
||
* [[Farming (fields)]]
|-
| Fisherdwarves
||
* [[Fishing]]
|-
| Plant gatherers
||
* [[Plant gathering]]
|-
| Stonecutters
||
* [[Stonecutting]]
|-
| Engravers
||
* [[Stone engraving]]
|-
| Haulers
||
* All [[Hauling]] labors
|-
| Orderlies
||
* [[Suturing]]
* [[Dressing wounds]]
* [[Feed patients/prisoners]]
* [[Recovering wounded]]
|}

† The Mining, Woodcutting, and Hunting labors are only accessible from these default work details.

====Custom work details====
{{TipBox2|titlebg=#dd0|float=right|Utilities|If you would like more control or information for labor assignments, [[Utilities#Dwarf Therapist|Dwarf Therapist]] and/or [[Utility:DFHack|DFHack]] can help, when available.}}
Additional work details can be defined. Click "Add new work detail", select which [[labor]]s will be associated with it, and then click done. You can then rename the new work detail.

There is currently no way to choose the work detail's icon, so you are stuck with what the game chooses. The roman numerals are in the file <code>Dwarf Fortress\data\vanilla\vanilla_interface\graphics\images\interface_bits_labor.png</code> and can be changed, but will still be used in order.

===Standing orders===
See: [[Standing Orders]]

===Kitchen===

===Stone use===

== Tool requirements ==
For a few specific jobs, a matching '''tool''' is also required for a dwarf to obey the job assignment. Any active [[miner]] needs a [[pick]], any active wood cutter needs a [[battle axe]], and any active [[hunter]] needs a [[crossbow]] (with quiver and bolts). If a labor needs a tool, the labor is considered '''exclusive''' such that you can only assign one of the three labors listed to any single dwarf at any one time.

This means that a dwarf cannot be, for instance, a [[Miner]] and a [[Hunter]] simultaneously, since both labors require a tool. If a dwarf is assigned a tool-labor and another tool-labor was previously assigned to said dwarf, the (old) tool-labor is automatically and silently unassigned, and that tool is immediately dropped where they stand at the time.

Additionally, the assignment of these tools '''overrides''' any [[Squad|uniform]] assigned to a dwarf's [[squad]], so [[military]] dwarves should never be assigned any of the aforementioned labors.

To be used, a tool cannot be [[forbidden]], nor in possession of another dwarf (even one that does not currently have a job), and a [[path]] must be available from the dwarf to that type of tool. If a tool is not available, the dwarf will typically attempt to fulfil other [[need]]s. It is possible, by using locked doors etc. to limit the paths, to force a specific tool to be assigned to a dwarf, but otherwise the tool will be randomly assigned, sometimes involving a dwarf walking long distances and past perfectly useful tools to find the one they think they want.

== Facility requirements ==
Many jobs require a workshop or some other [[Furnace|facility]] in order to be completed. Jobs are designated by way of the workshop, and any dwarf with the corresponding labor associated with the workshop will go to the shop, provided they are not eating, sleeping, drinking, etc..., and begin to complete the task. Most workshop jobs also require some raw materials in order to complete the production.

== Managing labor and demand ==
This can be done from the labor menu {{k|y}} under the [[work detail]]s tab.
* You can view a list of all current, queued, and suspended jobs, as well as which dwarves are doing them, on the {{k|t}}asks menu.
* A [[manager]] is incredibly useful for managing production jobs ([[workshop]] based). They can queue up a significant list of jobs without the need to select the various workshops, and place orders in bulk (or to be repeated). That said, there are some caveats, the most important being that queued jobs must be done in the correct order of materials required, or the orders will auto cancel. Also, you should not assign your manager to labors that are in high demand, as this will keep them from going to their [[office]] to place the orders.
* [[Migrants|Migrating]] dwarves will typically arrive with certain work details already assigned. You will likely want to change these to put them to work in a way that best suits your fortress.

== Advanced labor management and design ==
Managing your dwarves can be a tricky business. If the in-game labor menu is not to your liking, [[Utilities#Dwarf Therapist|Dwarf Therapist]] or [[Utility:DFHack|DFHack]] are both useful tools that assist you in managing your labors.

As your fortress grows, so will your labor pool, and the way you assign that labor will change over time. Typically at embark, you will have at least one Miner, a Wood cutter, Farmer, Carpenter, Mason/Stonecrafter, Cook/Brewer, Mechanic/Architect, one of which will also be a Broker/Appraiser. There are multiple combinations but this is typical (see [[Embark]] and [[Starting build]]). Early on, you will probably want to focus on fortress design and development, such that you will place priority on [[mining]] and [[masonry]], supplemented by [[carpentry]].

In order to maximize the benefit of highly skilled labor, you will eventually want to specialize your labor, such that each dwarf has a very limited number of labors assigned. Keep in mind however, that some dwarves experience minor negative feelings at not being able to perform a craft or a martial art for too long.

Hauling: Nothing can bog down your production like the distraction of hauling jobs. Losing your fort to a siege is [[fun]], but losing because all your skilled laborers spend all their time hauling stuff is no fun. One solution is to use dedicated haulers. The migrants who appear having no skilled labor, and whose attributes pretty much suck all around, aka [[peasant]]s, are best used as dedicated haulers.

== Labor, skill, and product quality ==
The amount of [[experience]] a dwarf has with a certain labor will determine how well they go about performing this labor; the more experience, the greater the skill. Certain job types can be completed more quickly, based on the skill in the labor. There are exceptions, such as [[Health care|nursing]] and [[hauling]] which will never be completed more quickly, regardless of skill.

Certain labors will produce products that have a [[quality]] tag, typically those associated with the production of an item from a workshop. The table below lists in which labors the dwarf's experience will impact the quality of produced items and in which labors a higher experience will only be beneficial for the speed of production.

* Many labors, most notably [[hauling]], have no associated skill, do not generate experience, and do not improve with practice.

==Strange moods==
{{main|Strange mood}}
A dwarf under a strange mood will perform a specific task to create an [[artifact]] that is outside of the player's control. Until they complete the task, both they and the workshop they claim will be unavailable for any labor. If the dwarf cannot complete the artifact, they will go [[insane]] and be permanently unable to perform any labor.

{{Translation
| dwarven = èrith
| elvish = equa
| goblin = akul
| human = ebe
}}

==List of labors==

{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" class="wikitable"
! Category !! Labors !! Benefits of higher skill
|-
| Mining ||
* [[Mining]]
| speed only
|-
| rowspan=3 |Woodworker ||
* [[Carpentry]]
| speed; item and furniture quality
|-
|
* [[Crossbow-making]]
| speed; weapon quality
|-
|
* [[Wood cutting]]
| speed only
|-
| rowspan=4 | Stoneworking
||
* [[Masonry]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Stone carving]]
| speed; items and furniture quality
|-
|
* [[Stonecutting]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Stone engraving]]
| speed; engraving quality
|-
| rowspan=5 | Hunting/Related ||
* [[Animal training]]
| speed; training quality
|-
|
* [[Animal care]]
| none (not implemented)
|-
|
* [[Hunting]]
| success rate tends to rise from increasing ambusher and marksdwarf skills
|-
|
* [[Trapping]]
| success rate? trap quality?{{verify}}
|-
|
* [[Small animal dissection]]
| speed only
|-
| [[Healthcare]] (Medical) ||
* [[Diagnosis]]
* [[Surgery]]
* [[Setting bones]]
* [[Suturing]]
* [[Dressing wounds]]
| speed; success chance, accuracy (and speed) of treatment
|-
| [[Healthcare]] (Nursing) ||
* [[Feed patients/prisoners]]
* [[Recovering wounded]]
| none
|-
| rowspan=20 | Farming/Related ||
* [[Butchery]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Tanning]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Farming (fields)]]
| speed; crop yield (stack size)
|-
|
* [[Dyeing]]
| speed; dye quality
|-
|
* [[Gelding]]
| less likely to be injured
|-
|
* [[Soap making]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Wood burning]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Potash making]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Lye making]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Milling]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Brewing]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Plant gathering]]
| speed; success and plant yield (stack size)
|-
|
* [[Plant processing]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Cheese making]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Milking]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Shearing]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Spinning]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Cooking]]
| speed; meal and ingredient quality
|-
|
* [[Pressing]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Beekeeping]]
| speed only{{verify}}
|-
| rowspan=3 | Fishing/Related ||
* [[Fishing]]
| speed; fish stack size
|-
|
* [[Fish cleaning]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Fish dissection]]
| speed only
|-
| rowspan=5 | Metalsmithing ||
* [[Furnace operating]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Weaponsmithing]]
| speed; weapon quality
|-
|
* [[Armoring]]
| speed; armor quality
|-
|
* [[Blacksmithing]]
| speed; item and furniture quality
|-
|
* [[Metalcrafting]]
| speed; craft, item, decoration, designed building quality
|-
| rowspan=2 | Jewelry ||
* [[Gem cutting]]
| speed; gem craft quality
|-
|
* [[Gem setting]]
| speed; decoration quality
|-
| rowspan=13 | Crafts ||
* [[Bookbinder|Bookbinding]]
| ?
|-
|
* [[Papermaker|Papermaking]]
| ?
|-
|
* [[Leatherworker|Leatherworking]]
| speed; clothing, decoration, craft quality
|-
|
* [[Wood crafter|Woodcrafting]]
| speed; craft quality
|-
|
* [[Stone crafter|Stonecrafting]]
| speed; craft quality
|-
|
* [[Bone carving]]
| speed; craft, decoration quality
|-
|
* [[Glassmaking]]
| speed; craft, item, furniture quality
|-
|
* [[Weaver|Weaving]]
| speed; cloth quality
|-
|
* [[Clothier|Clothesmaking]]
| speed; clothing, decoration quality
|-
|
* [[Strand extractor|Strand extraction]]
| speed only
|-
|
* [[Potter|Pottery]]
| speed; craft, item, furniture quality
|-
|
* [[Glazer|Glazing]]
| speed; glaze quality
|-
|
* [[Wax worker|Wax working]]
| speed; craft quality
|-
| rowspan=4 | Engineering ||
* [[Siege engineer|Siege engineering]]
| speed; part, ammunition quality
|-
|
* [[Siege operator|Siege operating]]
| speed; accuracy
|-
|
* [[Mechanic|Mechanics]]
| speed; mechanism, furniture quality
|-
|
* [[Pump operator|Pump operating]]
| none
|-
| [[Hauling]] ||
* Stone hauling
* Wood hauling
* Item hauling
* Burial
* Food hauling
* Refuse hauling
* Furniture hauling
* [[Hauling#Animal hauling|Animal hauling]]
* Trade Good Hauling
* Water Hauling
* [[Hauling#Push /Haul Vehicle|Push/Haul Vehicle]]
| none
|-
| rowspan=4 | Other Jobs ||
* [[Cleaning]]
| none
|-
|
* [[Lever operation]]
| none
|-
|
* Road building
| none
|-
|
* Wall/floor construction
| none
|}

Some jobs are not associated with a labor: [[food|eat]]ing, [[thirst|drinking]], [[sleep]]ing, going [[on break]], [[party]]ing, [[clean self|cleaning themselves]], and [[rest]]ing.

A few things are listed as "No Job" but can be considered labors in a different sense: running scared, not having a path to any place useful, and being [[insane]].

{{Category|Skills|*}}
{{Category|Interface}}
[[ru:Labor]]

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Versions

2023-01-03T14:22:19Z

Halavus: /* Adventurer Mode related sections */ Forgot to sign

{{archive|
# [[DF Talk:Versions/Archive 1|Page 1]]}}

== Version 0.31.19 starts a new DF generation? ==

My reading of Toady's comments on the release of 0.31.19 is that it came out basically because he felt it would take too long to get DF all the way to 0.32. With the ore changes, the sitefinder changes, the addition of grazing and several different industries, there's a lot of changes between 31.18 and 31.19. So I'm thinking it might be a good idea to call it the first release of DF2011 - and what we refer to as "DF2010" would then become 0.31.18.

Thoughts? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:06, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

==Revisiting Redirects==

I wasn't around when the redirect policy was created, and I'm having trouble understanding the rationale. The example claims that linking [[Main:Cheese]] to [[cv:Cheese maker]] is problematic...but mainspace only ever redirects to the current version. If the best target in the current version is cheese maker, why not link to it directly? (It's not, at least for Cheese, since [[DF2012:Cheese]] exists now.) The explanation seems to be claiming that 40d articles that link to Cheese will follow the Mainspace link--but that hasn't been the case for a long while now. Articles in 40d automatically link against other articles in 40d, so that version remains internally consistent no matter where mainspace links to in the current version. For a current example, what do we gain by linking [[Main:Mead]] to [[cv:Mead]] and linking [[DF2012:Mead]] to [[DF2012:Alcohol]]?

If this really is just an outdated procedure, I recommend we drop the mummery and allow mainspace to link to cv:(best target). Double redirects ''may'' work (sometimes, but [[Main:Mead]] demonstrates a common problem where automatic redirection fails), but if they are unnecessary I think they should be avoided, partly because of problems like [[Main:Mead]] and partly because of the effort required to protect double redirects from users who believe they are problematic.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:16, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

:I was just thinking that. I'm currently attempting to write a basic extension to eliminate the need for mainspace redirects entirely, although Mediawiki's class structure may make this more difficult than I had hoped (the only method I've found for resolving redirects takes the ''article text'' instead of a title, e.g. "#REDIRECT ..."). I do agree that the current situation with redirects isn't ideal, so I'm hoping this will work better (once I get it to work). --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:42, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Okay, that wasn't quite as clear as I meant it to be. In general, I think this is a tricky situation. Mediawiki wasn't designed to have five content namespaces, and certainly not chains of redirects between them. The problem that was pointed out in the [[DF:REDIR|policy]] is the fact that with:
Main:Foo -> cv:Bar
pages in the cv: namespace can't use [[<nowiki/>foo]], since the namespace links modification causes it to be treated as [[<nowiki/>cv:foo]] instead, which doesn't exist. The current suggested solution is this:
Main:Foo -> cv:Foo -> cv:Bar
This fixes the problem of [[<nowiki/>foo]] not working on cv pages, but creates issues with double redirects not always working. Another solution, which is more intuitive to new editors, is:
Main:Foo -> cv:Bar
cv:Foo -> cv:Bar
Both require creating two redirects. The first method has the advantage of ''ensuring'' that the cv redirect exists (otherwise, main:foo would be a redlink), while the second has the advantage of working more reliably in a couple cases.

What I'm trying to do is make main:Foo "jump" to cv:Foo when cv:foo exists, ''even if main:foo doesn't exist'' (basically it would treat all mainspace pages as redirects to cv pages, but only if the cv page exists and not the mainspace page). I had main:Bar jumping to cv:Bar fine, but if cv:Foo redirected to cv:Bar, accessing main:Foo would mysteriously stop at cv:Foo even if I increased the redirect limit. What I'm trying to do now is follow the redirects internally, without relying on Mediawiki to do it automatically - unfortunately, that has proved to be harder than I had hoped (and I sent my web server into an infinite loop while trying). I will try to work on this some more when I get a chance, although I'm not sure when that'll be yet :(. For now, feel free to fix broken double mainspace redirects as necessary, as long as redirects in the DF2012 namespace stay pointing to the right page (and new mainspace redirects get added in the DF2012 namespace too). --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:21, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

:You're treating cv like a namespace--it's not. It is simply shorthand for "fill in the current version here". [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Briess&diff=182404&oldid=181281 As I discovered a long time ago on a server not far away], linking from Main:Foo to cv:Foo tends to break redirection chains. If, instead of linking to cv:Foo, you link to DF2012:Foo, it might just work. It would, of course, be better if your patch could evaluate cv itself, but even if you have to hardcode the current version it's a single point of maintenance that requires update very infrequently. (For that matter, we could probably dispense with the cv hack entirely and just have a bot update mainspace links from DF2012 to DF201X when we switch to a new version.)--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:05, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
::I know cv isn't a namespace - I was just trying to avoid future confusion when the DF2012 namespace changes. It's interesting that changing "cv" to "DF2012" fixes some broken redirects, although I've found that simply making an edit to a broken redirect can usually fix it as well. I've actually had the most problems with double redirects when the second one (in the DF2012 namespace) doesn't use the DF2012 prefix (e.g. main:Foo containing <nowiki>[[cv:Foo]] and DF2012:Foo containing [[Bar]]</nowiki>). I'd rather keep the cv alias even if it isn't necessary for mainspace redirects when I get the patch to work, since it makes it easier to refer to the current version of the page (for example, several MDF articles contain links to a vanilla page for things that don't change in the mod).
::Also, using aliases like "cv" is supported by Mediawiki; in fact, several WMF wikis use them (for example, "[[wikipedia:WP:Redirects|WP:Redirects]]" on Wikipedia). It's quite likely that Mediawiki isn't processing double redirects using aliases correctly, though, since that's uncommon on most wikis. --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:35, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

In light of the lack of support for the current redirect policy, I propose we replace the current redirect section with:

:Mainspace article pages should use the cv: alias when redirecting to a versioned page, which will automatically update the link when a new version is released. For example, page "Main:Foo" should redirect to page "cv:Bar" (where "Bar" is the page that best describes the topic Foo in the current version).

:Pages in mainspace should only redirect to an older versioned page if that content no longer exists in the current version of the game (e.g. [[Cave river]], [[Chunk]]). In these cases the cv: alias cannot be used.

:Pages inside a versioned namespace should not use the cv: alias. Instead, they should redirect to the best page within that versioned namespace (e.g. [[DF2012:Dodging]], [[v0.31:Drink]]).

:Due to limitations of the wiki software, double redirects should be avoided if possible. When fixing double redirects in mainspace, please make sure to use the cv: alias as appropriate.

If no one objects, I will make this change in a few days.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:21, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

:Okay with me. It may be worth mentioning that double redirects only really need to be changed when they don't work (since changing a lot of redirects that work isn't necessary), but I think it's clearer and more relevant than the current policy. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:26, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Done.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:55, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

I was finally able to get my extension to work after being motivated by one too many malfunctioning redirects. It now causes nonexistent pages in the main namespace to behave exactly like redirects to their DF2012 counterparts (when linked to, accessed directly, and transcluded). Double redirects also work (up to 100, in fact, although that was a temporary safety measure that I'll probably change). This means we'll be able to safely get rid of all mainspace redirects (redirects that redirect to something other than "cv" will still function if not deleted). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:20, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
:What about articles which don't exist in the current version but do exist in older versions? Will those still need mainspace redirects, or will your extension be able to automatically redirect them to v0.31/40d/23a? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 01:29, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
::It ignores all mainspace pages that actually have content, including redirects, so pages like [[masons guild]] won't be affected (unless deleted). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:47, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Done and deployed. [[Cat]] is still treated as a redirect, even though I just deleted it (try clicking on the "redirected from" link). Pages that exist are ignored, so [[Masons guild]] and [[History of Dwarf Fortress]] still function normally (as a redirect to a 23a page and a non-redirect, respectively). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm sending around a bot right now to delete all redirects of the format "foo -> cv:foo" (a surprising number don't fit this format, so I'm leaving them alone for now). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:43, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

:I'm confused. Do we use double redirects or not? Is there a single place we define our linking policy (including redirects), and is it updated?
:I had trouble linking to [[Consolidated_development]] in [[v0.34:Dragon]]. It kept pointing to v0.34:Consolidated_development, which does not exist. I ended up linking to Main:Consolidated_development to make it work. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] ([[User talk:Nahno|talk]]) 10:18, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

::That's a separate problem altogether - links in the versioned namespaces (v0.34, v0.31, 40d, 23a) automatically link to pages within their namespace. I may be able to set up a fallback to mainspace once I'm able to deploy again, but for now the "main:" alias is the intended solution. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 11:36, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

== Google often directs people to the 0.31 page ==

I've noticed a couple of times that finding a wiki page from an external search will often drop me onto a page from an older version. Is it possible to mitigate this somehow for new players? I could imagine something like redirecting old:Bar -> cv:Bar unless the user has come from old:Foo; no idea if that would actually work though. [[User:PeridexisErrant|PeridexisErrant]] ([[User talk:PeridexisErrant|talk]]) 11:48, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

:As a temporary solution, I could write a script that displays a banner of some kind if the user came from an external site. I'll ask Briess if he can do anything on the server level to increase the weighting of the current version's pages. (Obviously there are situations where people are looking for old pages, like [[23a:dungeon master]], so we don't want to disable indexing entirely on old pages.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:03, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

== DF2014? ==

As Toady [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ draws closer to a new release], it might be worthwhile to discuss the addition of a new version to the wiki. The upcoming release covers two years of changes and introduces a number of new plants, foods, drinks, multi-tile trees, climbing, jumping, etc., so it is likely to have significant changes from the current DF2012. To avoid having people start new pages (and lose all the effort spent refining the prior version's page), I think it would be best to have a bot automatically copy over the DF2012 pages as a starting point for DF2014. I would suggest that these copied pages include a noticebox template mentioning that the content may be outdated, so that we can easily track which pages have been reviewed. I think either the {{tl|version check}} or {{tl|old}} template would work. --[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:43, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

:This is what [[User:QuietBot]] did after the 0.34 release, so it's certainly possible to use the same script to migrate to DF2014. I would like a way of tagging migrated pages, since inaccuracies in some pages went unnoticed for months after they were migrated. Since {{tl|old}} is already in use, {{tl|version check}} may be a better solution (it can be reworded slightly, or we can make a separate template for DF2014 migration). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:23, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
:Made [[Template:DF2014 migrated]] as an example. Any thoughts? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:32, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

== Redirects inconsistency ==

Following a redirect is supposed to be exactly the same as going straight to the page it redirects to, but this actually isn't the case:
* Go to [[Seeds]] and you get [[v0.34:Seed]] (outdated)
* Go to http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Seeds&redirect=no and click on the link and you get to [[DF2014:Seed]] (current)
So if you search for "seed", the top result is the DF2014 version. But search for "seeds" and you get the redirect, which sends you to the outdated page instead. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 23:22, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

While I'm talking about redirects, it seems redirects to sections don't work: see [[DF2014:How do I manage my seeds and crops]]. I know MediaWiki is capable of this trick because Wikipedia does it. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 23:32, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

:I have absolutely no idea why [[seeds]] redirects to a v0.34 page - it could be a Mediawiki bug. The section links issue is due to a known issue in the redirect extension we use, which has yet to be fixed. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:01, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
:It looks like deleting both [[Seeds]] and [[DF2014:Seeds]] fixed things (by allowing AutoRedirect to handle the redirects instead). Feel free to tag any others with {{tl|bad redirect}}. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:03, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
::It gets stranger. [[Vial]] redirects explicitly to [[cv:Flask]] which displays (when you look at it with &redirect=no) as [[DF2014:Flask]], but still goes to the v0.34 version. It seems redirects interpret the cv: pseudo-namespace (or whatever it's called) in an outdated way. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 18:08, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
::I've added a note to this page about this issue. If it gets resolved, the note should be removed. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 21:04, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

==Reorganizing versions==

The internet deals with moved content... poorly. Google is still linking to v0.34 pages more than a year after the switch to "DF2014", and even the wiki software still has cached links pointing to the old version pages.

I propose reorganizing versions on the wiki to avoid moving content whenever possible. Instead of having a temporary "current version" namespace that changes occasionally, all the current information gets promoted to the Main namespace. When the next version split occurs, the Main articles as of a certain revision number can be copied to the newly-created permanent "old version" namespace, while all the current information remains in Main. This not only fixes the link rot issue, but it has a few other benefits as well: fewer administrative tasks, no lockdown (a historical version of the Main pages can be copied at any point, even if the Main articles are already modified for the new version), almost all the article history is maintained in the Main article (instead of being spread unevenly across multiple versions), no "temporary" namespaces are needed, fewer problematic long redirect chains, and hopefully less user confusion (since Main gets priority in search results, etc.).

As an example, today we would not have a DF2014 namespace (which is good because "temporary" namespaces historically disappear anyway). If you ran a search for [[seed]] you'd end up at Main:seed, which would have all the current information on seeds. The version box at the top of the page would still link to the older versions of the seed article. When a new version is released, an admin would choose a revision number and copy the Main:seed article as it exists at that revision number to v0.40:seed. That's it. One historical copy that needs little to no new editing, and zero redirections/moves.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:02, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

:Makes sense to me. It would involve a lot of work, though (e.g. fixing templates and categories to account for the current version being in mainspace), although that should be doable thanks to {{tl|category}}, {{tl|version switch}}, etc.. A bot could be set up to copy revisions from before a release date as well, which would be more difficult (and maybe slower) than a direct copy, but not severely. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:24, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

:Actually, there are a few issues with that, namely that there wouldn't be an easy way to distinguish between versioned and non-versioned mainspace pages. There are ways to resolve Google search priority (we can exclude pages from older versions from search engine results if there are newer versions of those pages available, for example). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:47, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::There aren't very many non-versioned mainspace pages, and determining if a page is versioned is as simple as looking for the version template and/or categories added by the version template (e.g. copy [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:Current this category] instead of Main:*). The problem with "suggesting" newer pages to Google is that they obviously aren't crawling our wiki regularly (if they were, the fact that the mainspace redirects point to new pages would automatically be picked up). Even if your Google hints worked they wouldn't do anything for all the other broken links out on the 'net.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:35, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::: Google actually crawls the wiki constantly - we probably get crawl hits from google for a continuous block of 2-3 hours per day, each and every day. Why they are slow to update is beyond me though. I can't remember why we didn't do this initially, but there was a technical limitation involved if I remember correctly. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] ([[User talk:Briess|talk]]) 22:05, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::: There are <meta> tags that can be used to hide pages from search results (for search engines that recognize them, that is). Searching for {{tl|av}} or [[:Category:Current]] might work, although we'd have to make sure all of the DF2014 pages include that (some pages don't, particularly some disambiguation pages, although all of them should). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:53, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

:Is there a particular reason main and current are separate to begin with?—[[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 00:17, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

::It's mostly intended to distinguish between versioned and non-versioned pages and make version-related templates simpler to work with, since every versioned page has a namespace. I wasn't active here in 2010 when this system was created, so Briess and Emi would know more.
::Another issue I just thought of with Loci's suggestion is categories - currently, categories like [[:Category:Animals]] are used to organize the versioned sub-categories. Sure, we can change {{tl|Category}} to categorize mainspace pages in [[:Category:v0.40:Animals]] or [[:Category:DF2014:Animals]], but that would be less straightforward because there wouldn't be a namespace with that name (until pages are migrated when a newer major version is released). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:05, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

:Moving current pages to the main namespace sounds like a great idea. -[[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] ([[User talk:Jecowa|talk]]) 20:47, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Another thought: dealing with migrating redirects could be difficult with this proposal - specifically, determining which redirects should be migrated to a versioned namespace. Redirects can't contain {{tl|av}}, at least not before ``#REDIRECT``. I ''think'' it would be possible to copy pages in two stages, though - all non-redirects first, then all redirects whose targets were also copied. Thoughts? Anything I'm missing? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:41, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Some subpages (particularly /raw and /Edit notice) also deliberately lack {{tl|av}}, although those shouldn't be too hard to handle. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:35, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

:Redirect pages (and all other edge cases I've looked at) can be included in categories (like [[:Category:Current]]) to determine whether or not they should be copied into an archival version. But if the redirects are "properly qualified" then they can all be copied over blindly. Mainspace redirects pointing to versioned information should use a blank namespace (which will be automatically constrained to the archival namespace); mainspace redirects pointing to unversioned information should use an explicit "Main" (which will automatically link back to the unversioned page). Then, when [[[[Toady]]]] gets copied to [[[[v0.4x:Toady]]]] it will point back to [[[[Main:Toady One]]]]. Meanwhile, [[[[Beer]]]], copied to [[[[v0.4x:Beer]]]], will properly point to [[[[v0.4x:Alcohol]]]].--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:00, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

::I think qualifying redirects is the best solution here - categorizing redirects manually is another possible source of errors, since categories (or a lack thereof) would only be visible on the redirect page itself, and [[:Category:Current]] is a hidden category. Copying over mainspace redirects into versioned namespaces would also resolve some issues that have come up due to those not reliably existing currently. I should be able to set up a bot script to add "main:" to current mainspace redirects (and it shouldn't break anything, since those redirects go to other mainspace pages anyway). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:57, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

(Note: I wrote all of this without noticing the previous discussion above.) I was wondering, when the wiki creates a new namespace for a major release again, if it is possible to ''not'' create a namespace for the next current version (e.g. "DF202x") and instead have the mainspace articles (which are currently redirects) become the new cv and move the content there. Therefore, [[cv:Cat]] would just be "[[Cat]]" (or [[Main:Cat]]).

Certain namespace-related templates like [[Template:Ns/0]] would need to be changed, though nothing significant as far as I know. For most cases, any "DF2014" would be replaced with "Main" or even blank. There's also multiple extensions handling the current namespace system and they may need to be modified too, though I'm not sure if or how much. I'm guessing based on the discussions above that it will change stuff up.

My reason is the current namespace is increasingly becoming more anachronistic. "DF2014" could be misinterpreted as "this page is about the 2014 version of the game" or "this page was last updated in 2014", which I've seen a few people in forums mention. Granted that [[Template:Av]] is on the top of very article, I still think the namespace is inconsistent with the recentness of the article. But how is this related to what I'm asking for? Let's say we continue the current system: if we happen to do a new namespace change this year and create DF2020, the next major release (after graphics/UI) will be mythgen, which is estimated to take several years to develop (the Big Wait), and so the anachronism will start over again. The proposed way will prevent this from occurring for the next major release and every release thereafter.

I think the confusion with having a namespace that becomes old-fashioned overtime supersedes the confusion with not marking current versioned articles with a namespace. Most users just search "Cat" on the search bar and naturally expect to get information about the latest release of DF. So if users go a page that's just titled "Cat", they won't expect outdated info about cats from a previous release. That's how the current system works anyways. We'll be skipping the two-step process that we have now. It'll make several wiki tasks much simpler as well. Editors can create new articles for current versions without remembering to add a namespace. It'll fix any existing issues with (double) redirects; instead of [[Main:Kitten]] redirecting to [[cv:Kitten]], which goes to [[DF2014:Kitten]], which then redirects to [[DF2014:Cat]], [[Main:Kitten]] would just redirect to [[Main:Cat]]. And the cv: alias will no longer be necessary since "cv:" = "Main:" and will be forever.

There's no need to differentiate the current version and previous versions with a namespace for the current version is what I'm saying. Articles of previous versions will retain their respective namespaces. Users will still type "40d:Cat" to go to the 40d version of the article, but if they want the current version, they'll just type "Cat" (like now). The mainspace containing the "live" version of an article is natural and would create no uncertainty when browsing the wiki. And it would simplify the wiki somewhat and future-proof this anachronism problem. As a bonus, this change will also prevent web search engines from showing previous version pages when typing "DF cat" or something. (This isn't happening right now as DF2014 has been the current namespace for ~6 years, but it'll happen again when everything moves to a new namespace.)

This is the gist of it, and I may have ignored most of the problems with this proposal. I have personally wished for the whole version namespacing be made less complicated and have been seeking for a solution, and I feel like this is the best way to go about in the future. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:27, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

:<s>Whoops, looks like Loci already proposed this exact thing long ago. I definitely missed that discussion and should have checked first. My apologies. I'll move my text to that section and remove this one. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:36, 14 August 2020 (UTC)</s> Done. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:40, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

:The main issue I have with that is that putting pages about the current version in a namespace also differentiates between those pages and pages not about ''any'' version (for example, [[Toady One]] does not need a 40d or v0.34 page). Yes, we can use {{tl|av}} to mark versioned pages, but people often forget to add that to new pages. The current system also allows determining whether a page is versioned or not from its title, which makes migrations a lot faster. Relying on {{tl|av}} would require either reading the content of every page (which would slow scripts down significantly) or cross-checking with the list of all pages including the template (feasible, but a bit more complicated, and still susceptible to missing templates). I suppose that manually fixing and migrating pages missing {{tl|av}} later wouldn't be too much work, though.
:I am definitely in favor of changing "DF2014" (or a new namespace) to "Current", though. I was in favor of "DF2014" in 2014, but I don't think it makes sense anymore, and "Current" seemed to be a popular alternative in both the DF2012 and DF2014 discussions on the matter. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:02, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

== Weird redirect behaviour ==

[[Pump stack]] redirects to [[cv:Screw pump#Pump stack]]. If you look at the redirect itself it says it redirects to DF2014 namespace, which is correct. But if you actually follow the redirect, it goes to v0.34 namespace. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 16:10, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
:Yeah, that's part of the issue described in the above section (the wiki caching part, not on Google's end.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:00, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

== v50 organization ==

Some wiki admins have had a talk on Discord and decided that the most sustainable path forward is to put content for all future versions of DF in the main namespace. We will be working on a bot to do this in the next few days. Feel free to chime in with suggestions here. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:56, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

:Is it maybe possible to do backwards-namespacing? Like we have a "Main" namespace, which people are free to update, and whenever there's a new version of DF the "Main" namespace is copied into a namespace for the then old version, much like how you'd branch a stable branch from a development branch when working with a git-project? [[User:Therahedwig|Therahedwig]] ([[User talk:Therahedwig|talk]]) 23:13, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

::Yeah, we could do that if we decide to. We were talking about doing that for v50, actually, and might still do something similar to preserve edit history if it doesn't end up being too hard to automate. Our hope is that we will not introduce new namespaces for v50 -> v5x, unless there is a serious breaking change (and hopefully there isn't one). But if we change our mind, one advantage of the type of migration you mentioned is that it can be done retroactively - we can copy historical revisions that were current at the time of the release, and would only lose some typo fixes made after the release that apply to earlier versions as well. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:11, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

ETA is < 24 hours. Doing some final checks on a migration script. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 07:08, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

: We should really have a task list as there are many things that change and need updating. Including but not limited to:
:* Most templates that used the previous namespace convention broke, including nav templates.
:* Many game files changed locations and their pages need to be updated.
:* Raws need to be updated.
:* Various features added, changed, removed.
:* UI has been changed -- though I am more inclined to wait for classic release to avoid extra work --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 06:56, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

"''Raws need to be updated.''" Including applying text wraparound where necessary, I suppose - more than a few of them have proven to be that special kind of...''difficult'' to navigate otherwise, shall we say? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:There is already a task list in the [[#v50 migration|section below]] that includes templates and raws, with an explanation. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

== v50 migration ==

The initial migration script is done. New content is in the '''main''' namespace, e.g. [[Cat]]. Old content is still at [[DF2014:Cat]]. History was migrated to the ''new'' (main namespace) articles.

I know several things are broken still. Please reply if you find any others:
<div style="border-left: 2px solid red">
* <s>Versioned templates haven't been migrated yet (e.g. {{tl|vermin}} on [[Ant]])</s>
** Fixed. Most were migrated by a bot.
* Raws are missing on all pages that use them.
** This also affects sidebars, such as on [[Cat]] and [[Microcline]].
** Update: The DFRawFunctions extension has been upgraded to include v50 raws, using the "v50:" prefix for filenames instead of "DF2014:". I haven't finished a migration script to create the /raw pages themselves, but they can typically be created manually by copying the DF2014 /raw pages and changing "DF2014" to "v50" everywhere. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:20, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
* Some pages where the DF2014 page was a redirect to a main namespace page that contained content were migrated incorrectly.
** In this case, the main namespace page is usually a redirect to itself. This can be fixed by undoing LethosorBot's edit to the main namespace page, then copying the content to the DF2014 page.
** Update: most seem to have been fixed manually - thanks! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
* <s>Some main-namespace talk pages redirect to DF2014 talk pages. Some of these redirects work, and some (usually older ones) do not.</s>
** Fixed with a bot. Some redirects from talk pages to other deleted talk pages are now broken, e.g. [[Talk:Above_ground]] (exists) -> [[Talk:Tile attributes]] (redlink). I am leaving them like that because they redirect to where the talk page should be created, but I'm also fine with people deleting them if they really want to. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
* {{tl|quality}} for new articles is disabled (see below)
* Some links from DF2014 to Main weren't working: e.g. the version selector [[DF2014:Mason's workshop]] was linking to [[DF2014:Main:Mason's workshop]] instead of [[Main:Mason's workshop]]. I'm not sure exactly why, but I fixed it with a change to the NamespaceLinks extension. Let me know if you spot similar broken links. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:19, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
</div>

—[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:54, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:The quality levels of the 50.03 pages seem to be missing. I'm not sure if that's covered under that first point. [[User:Trainzack|Trainzack]] ([[User talk:Trainzack|talk]]) 06:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::If the the [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Quality]] feature can be made to work with namespace scheme change, I suggest to automatically assign the lowest quality rating to all pages, alternately add the {{tl|old}} to all pages. Otherwise there will be a lot of pages that will fall through the cracks. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:12, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::I disabled {{tl|quality}} in the main namespace because it would require some rework to make the rating script and the template work properly there. Feel free to take a stab at the template. I will see what can be done on the extension side. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::What needs to be done on the template side? I'm not sure I see too big of an issue leaving pages as "unknown-quality" for now (or just change the default to tattered) until we get the rating script working. Is that script up anywhere, anything that could be helped with? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 11:10, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::They're already marked as unknown. Really the only issue I know of with the template is that it doesn't show up with some of the newer skins we added, and that can be fixed by getting rid of the absolute positioning. As for the script, it can be found at https://github.com/DF-Wiki/QualityRatings, and the issue is really only with the configuration system not recognizing the main namespace as valid. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:29, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::Great, I started having a crack at fixing the template with different themes. Is the preference to get some CSS going and then include it in the global stylesheet (i.e different styles per theme) or to try and get a "one size fits all" fix? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 08:14, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

It appears some pages are redirecting recursively and never resolving correctly, like the [[https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Character_table&redirect=no|character table]] and [[tileset repository]] 07:35, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
: Indeed, these can be caught here: [[Special:DoubleRedirects]] --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:51, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

It might be useful to change the notice title to "release information '''for editors'''" --[[Special:Contributions/142.59.195.176|142.59.195.176]] 10:26, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Can do. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::New here, hello. Should we set a date where we remove/only show the banner for logged in users. There are (some) pages that have 4 different notices about the upgrade. [[Engraving]] is one such page, the top banner states "information for editors", we then have the "this page was migrated" banner, a version selection which warns the article might be inaccurate, and a smaller banner saying the page might need to be updated. Quite a lot of screen space, I think we can start to slowly reduce the amount of warnings this coming month? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 10:07, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Main talkpages seem to redirect to DF2014 talk. Not sure if it is intentional but I like it, though we should pay attention when creating new discussion relating to v50 ending up there.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 14:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:That's unintentional. I specifically wrote the migration script to not move talk pages, but that has the side-effect of leaving any previously-created "Talk -> DF2014 talk" redirects intact. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Yo Lethosor, are we adding graphic sprites for the pages in some way? Or are we waiting for you to add some sort of new template or something? I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that the current templates don't allow that. Not sure if I'm allowed to change/create any templates either, as I don't want to break things for hundreds of pages. Edit: And IF the icons are allowed, should they be left alone, or 2×-3× sized like how the Minecraft wiki does it? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 14:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Depends on which templates you mean. There are copyright concerns with uploading a premium sprite sheet, for instance. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::I'm not talking about uploading an entire sprite sheet. I'm just talking about individual icons for each respective page. One image for cows, one for horses, one for werebeasts, etc. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 16:50, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::If we do that for every creature in the sprite sheet, that's not much different (in terms of copyright) from uploading the entire sprite sheet. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:09, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::Is there someone we can talk to about that? We finally get this new game with graphics, and then we can't use the very graphics of the game? No matter what the rules are, I'd say that would be the stupidest thing ever. I know I'm infamous here when it comes to copyright and images and stuff, but about 80% of game wikis out there are completely unofficial, and use game file images like no one's business. I can't imagine anyone's door being knocked on if we used the game's sprites, but I won't add any here until we have a go-ahead. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 17:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::...I've made noise in Mayday's direction on this matter, at least (prob an incorrect maneuver, ''but'').[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 17:55, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::: I hope some sort of arrangement can be made so we can use the new sprites with permission/limits, just as we are using the raw files. Otherwise we are all (devs and editors alike) shooting ourselves in the foot here.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 21:07, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::::I just thought of something. We're supposedly not allowed to upload entire sprite sheets, right? What if - for the time being - we just use a few of them for the purpose of testing out new infoboxes? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:46, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::I don't know. If someone could ask Kitfox and post the response here, that would be great. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::::::I've reached out to Alexandra, but she hasn't answered yet. Until then I found these old approvals from the previous community manager, Feeona: ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.msg8243633#msg8243633 link1], [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176640.msg8243642#msg8243642 link2]). Waiting for a newer response until we begin mass uploads is probably the politer option, but like Zippy said, it is also standard for wikis to use game sprites with less approval. I second their idea of trying it out with a few images to test the infoboxes. On the extreme off-chance (and I do think it is) Kitfox protests we can always remove these few. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 22:19, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::And here is a third, more official statement: ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.msg8249718#msg8249718 link3]). Perhaps that address of info@kitfoxgames.com is the better channel to ask for a confirmation, rather than Discord DMs, but I will be going to bed, so it is best if someone else does that. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 22:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::Thanks for tracking this down! Ok, sprites should be fine, but let's avoid uploading the entire premium tileset as a single image, for instance (as the forum thread says, "use common sense"). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:21, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::: Looks good, permission is always preferable over fairuse, I think it is a win win for all involved. I agree that we shouldn't upload entire sprite sheets (e.g. there is no reason to upload the windmill from every direction or whole construction phase for workshops) and that there are a lot of details that needs to be ironed out through testing. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 05:07, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::We have a green light on uploading all and any sprites. Their response to me can be seen [https://i.imgur.com/BhmHjzC.png here]. I'm sure someone else confirmed it before me. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:00, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Shifting temporarily to a new issue, is the documentation of [[Template:ArticleVersion]] outdated? It would seem so to me, since the current version no longer has its own namespace, with the templates needing updating being different ones. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 18:30, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:I think it is still accurate enough. We left open the possibility of making another namespace in the future, albeit with a different migration strategy - see [[#v50 organization|above]]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Some Changes to infoboxes might be needed. Too bad [[User:Doorkeeper]] isn't around. He did a great work with navbox project--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:52, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

I just realized that raw files aren't stored as regular wiki pages but loaded via the DFRawFunctions extension (hence the need to update). Good news it's going to be handled in bulk, consistently and relatively easy to updated. Even better it's Lethosor problem ;) Also I just realized that all the "raw files" (txt files in the new vanilla folder) are released into the public domain. Both are probably not news to the vets but I'll leave it here for those who less up to date like myself. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:35, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

: I noticed that some templates aren't working properly in the new namespace, e.g. [[Basalt]] entry had its raw updated manually but the infobox fail to show any details. Cursory look suggest {{t|layerlookup/0}} need a minor tweak. This should do the work
:: Replace: <nowiki>{{layerlookup/aux|{{{{FULLPAGENAME}}/raw}}|uses={{{uses|}}}|wiki={{{wiki|}}}}}</nowiki>
:: With___: <nowiki>{{layerlookup/aux|{{</nowiki>:<nowiki>{{FULLPAGENAME}}/raw}}|uses={{{uses|}}}|wiki={{{wiki|}}}}}</nowiki>
: Not sure what the plan and ETA with raws update so I didn't touch this high usage template for now. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 08:11, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

::Please do feel free to make this update. I am still working on a script to create the <code>/raw</code> pages themselves. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be an idea to add to the Sitenotice to remove the {{tl|migrated article}} tag when an article has been fully updated? I see many articles that seem to be updated still have the tag. And/or advise to make use of the {{tl|verify}} for sections still in need of checking? --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 10:12, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:Probably a good shout. The "see this page" link does include the detail on removing but we should more explicitly encourage removing the banner once a page has at least been looked over. [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 11:01, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== v50 specific issues ==
=== Graphics===
Follow up on the use of game sprites and the need to trying it out with a few images to test the infoboxes. First sprite [[:File:Beds v50.png]] was uploaded and used on [[Bed]] entry. Any thoughts? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:06, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:Seems like it should be rearranged to be horizontal. Also, has there been a serious discussion about copyright? Full screenshots are 100% fine, but you start going into a grey area when you upload pieces of a spritesheet. I'm of the opinion that it's all fine as long as it's inconvenient to reconstruct the full sheet from the individual images. Maybe a further restriction could be you shouldn't upload any of the art unless it's used in an infobox (maybe an exception for pieces of the UI). And one more restriction could be you shouldn't show everything, like in your bed example, maybe just the wooden bed is good enough, leave out the stone and metal, especially since those can only be made from strange moods. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:43, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::Actually, your bed image is kinda bad for showing off what a bed looks like because it doesn't show the pillow/blankets. That might point to cropped screenshots being the best path, although less convenient for the uploader, as you don't get details left out. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:46, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::I created a new license template [[Template:Copyright game]], based it on the way the RimWorld wiki does things. Call it a prototype, but it's probably how your bed image should be labelled. Indeed, I added it to it already. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]])

::: I agree that the horizontal arrangement would suit better here and that we should strive to represent how things look in-game. Otherwise, I am not too concerned about people being able to reconstruct anything (lets just say that ''anyone'' interested in that can get the real thing from the game files), also it seem we have permission to use the sprits on top of fairuse. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 19:55, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

::: Modifying the existing template to allow the inclusion of the new sprites is easy (Something like [https://ibb.co/zFXCrjd this]?) The big question is the matter of consistency is there any exceptions that will break the format (size wise with variant bloat for example), the sprite naming format, etc --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:44, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::: If we are going to show a variant for each material type, then maybe these should be added as separate images so we can add a tooltip for each image. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:49, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

:I've got another prototype going here and here: [[User:Brightgalrs/vector.css]] and [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox]]. (You'll need to add the css stuff to your own /vector.css). Basically it's a way to recolor images using css classes. No idea if there's a better way. Also, the real implementation would require a change to [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:Should mention, there ''is'' a different way, just upload each image 16 times, one for each coloring. But maybe that's not very elegant. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:45, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

: It should be noted that soon the classic edition will be released, hence one should plan to have both the Premium and classic alongside in that little space --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 03:14, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::I'm looking into a tab extension to potentially support this in infoboxes. Perhaps [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Tabs Extension:Tabs]? I tried [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TabberNeue Extension:TabberNeue], but it displays a placeholder if JavaScript is disabled, which isn't great. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: The Neue Tabber seem to works pretty much like the old one (which fandom [https://coding-help.fandom.com/wiki/Tabber#Adding_images_into_tabbers still use]) defaulting to showing the first tab only. Quick look suggest that neue work the same, plus the notice that 'Tabber requires Javascript to function' warning? if so, and if it is a bother, then you should be able to edit out the tabberneue-noscript string in code. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 06:29, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: I much prefer your tabber solution, but if that fails we can also use the gallery slideshow mode. If so, beware it has no way to control image size so the images have to be maliciously uploaded using the exact same size. example:
<gallery mode="slideshow">
File:SteelSample.png
File:TinSample.png
File:ZincSample.png
File:GoldSample.png
</gallery> --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:19, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

==== adding premium set to Infobox ====
I am unclear where are we going with this? 
1) Will (A) tabs be implemented, (B) we be using mediawiki toggle [[Template_talk:V50_workshop|example]] for premium and classic/blocked, (c) put images side by side, or (d) something else? 
2) Also [[silver]] and [[Pig iron]] use very different image style for example. 
3) Anything else you want ? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 12:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

: Personally, I would love tabs to be implemented, but I think that side by side might be best for most. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 12:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
: Here is rough layout we can use. It should fit most buildings given the default sprite size. There is also a different floor plan for both (inspired by reddit)

{|
|- valign=top
|
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse; "
|+ 5×5
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc; "
|<div class="mw-customtoggle-infoboxtab mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="border-top-right-radius: 10px; border-top-left-radius:10px;">toggle</div>
|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|- valign=top
|colspan=2|<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">
[[File:Siege workshop.png|center|160px]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab"">
{|
|rowspan=2 style="width:50%; font-size: 125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Siege workshop}}</center>
|style="line-height: 1em; font-size: 125%;"|
{| style="border-spacing:4px;"
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|}
|-
| style="text-align: center;" | Layout
|}
</div>
|}
|
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse; "
|+ 3×3
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc; "
|colspan=2 style="text-align: right;"|<div class="mw-customtoggle-infoboxtab mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="float:left; border-top-right-radius: 10px; border-top-left-radius:10px;">toggle</div>{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|- valign=top
|rowspan=2 style="width:50%;"|
<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">[[File:Carpenter's workshop.png]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab""><center>
{| style="font-size: 175%; border-spacing: 0; background-color: black; border: 2px solid black"
|- 
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|"|7:0:0}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|{{=}}|6:0:0}}
|-
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
|-
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|]|0:0:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
|}</center></div>
|
{| style="border-spacing:5px;"
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|}
|-
| style="text-align: center;" | Layout
|}
</div>
|
{| style="width:200px; height:100px; padding:10px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse;"
|+ 1×1
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc;"
| colspan=3 style="text-align:center;"|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|-
| style="border-right: 1px dotted #545557;"|[[File:Screw_press.png|32px|center|link=]]
| style="font-size:125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Screw press}}</center>
| style="border-left: 1px dotted #545557;"|<center>{{Template:Floor Plan Screw press}}</center>
|}
|
{| style="width:200px; height:100px; padding:10px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse;"
|+ 1×3
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc;"
| colspan=3 style="text-align:center;"|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|-
| style="border-right: 1px dotted #545557;"|[[File:water_wheel.png|32px|center|link=]]
| style="font-size:125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Water wheel}}</center>
| style="border-left: 1px dotted #545557;line-height:normal;"|<center>{{Template:Floor Plan Water wheel}}</center>
|}
|}
:Any thoughts on the direction and or any and all of its elements? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:16, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

::I kind of like side-by-side, if it fits. If anyone wants to implement a toggle button or tabs, I would ask that that be implemented in a template for now, so that e.g. we could change a toggle button to tabs in a single place if we decide to install an extension to support that. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:14, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

::: I noticed a comment saying that [[impassable tile]] are no longer used in v50, is that true for all constructions? If so, floor plans are no longer needed, making things much easier as we can fit everything in except the 5v5 constructions like trade depot (and even these can be placed one above the other if so desired). If not, any thought on the alternative floor plan design? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:46, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

:::: None of the constructions have blocking tiles any more from my experience playing. I haven't tested siege weaponry with that stuff, but none of the workshops have it, nor does any furniture. (walls and fortifications will of course obstruct movement [[User:AndrielChaoti|AndrielChaoti]] ([[User talk:AndrielChaoti|talk]]) 18:47, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
::::: Ok, I have removed them from v50. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 23:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I have added a basic side by side variant to [[Template:V50 workshop]] and [[Template:Building]] for testing, let us know if there any issues. Few notes:
* The default image naming scheme of <code>workshop-name.png</code> will likely conflict with existing images here or on commons, maybe another naming scheme should be used like <code>v50 workshop-name.png</code> as it is with ascii pictures.
* There is inconsistency in image size. If you want to use large zoomed images then toggle is best, otherwise they need to be all in native size (96px for 3x3).
* In the current version the code roughly centers the images and if there is a big image like with [[Siege workshop]] it drops to a new line --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 23:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

How about combining shortcut keys and the new menu icons:
<div style="color:white; font-size: large; text-shadow: -1px -1px 0 #000, 1px -1px 0 #000, -1px 1px 0 #000, 1px 1px 0 #000;">[[File:Ui b.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:3px;">b</div>[[File:Ui bo.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:3px;">o</div>[[File:Ui bol.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:3px;">l</div>[[File:Ui boll.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:3px;">l</div></div>
--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 02:24, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

:I worry that this is difficult to read (I read it as "boil" at first). I would rather use something like {{tl|k}} with a known background. What about something like this? [[File:Ui boll.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:0px;">{{k|l}}</div> or, alternatively, using flexbox without any overlap: [[File:Ui boll.png]]{{k|l}} —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:37, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
:: Same, but that is the best I came up with. We can use the key or maybe someone can help improve the design. Also 'l' is hard to read even with {{t|key}}.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 03:05, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
:: I added a {{t|Menu icon}} to start things so others can have a go with it. Also any thoughts on the icon naming convention (their short sequence), is there easier/better way? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:36, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Bizarre palette-swapping idea/prototype ====
No idea if this is a good idea, since it takes a bit of time to set up, and there might be some performance issues... and maybe display issues?

But take a look at this:
{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock|palette-name=amber}}

It's way to swap palettes on an image, although the image itself is a table, with each cell representing a pixel. The template itself looks like this:
<code><nowiki>{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock|palette-name=saffron}}</nowiki></code>
Input the pattern and desired palette name.

I've got a larger showcase here: [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwapShowcase]]. Only did a rock pattern so far, but all palettes are implemented.
The major use for this would be on each stone, metal, wood, etc. type's page. The palette could be read directly from the raws. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 03:22, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

:From a technical perspective, my primary concern is indeed performance. Both on the server side and client side, a large number of tables that large (in terms of markup and cell count, that is) tend to be resource-intensive to generate and render. I saw your image-filtering experiments on [[User:Brightgalrs/vector.css]], and while that strikes me as a newer and less-backwards-compatible approach, it would probably be more resource-friendly.
:Is this color adjustment something the game is doing natively? i.e. does this accurately match what the game displays? I bet we could slap together an image-filtering extension (or find an existing one?) that can do this if needed. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:49, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah that's what I suspected. The images the template creates are spot on, checked it against a screenshot I took of some mica rocks in-game. The css stuff is unfortunately totally incorrect, was cool to learn about it though, so not a complete waste of my time :p. The premium, in-game graphics are true sprites, basically patterns of indexed colors. Each of the in-game colors (which are significantly expanded over the 16 ascii colors, there's 116/117) there is a palette defined in "\Dwarf Fortress\data\vanilla\vanilla_descriptors_graphics\graphics\images\palettes.png". Each indexed color of the sprite is swapped for the corresponding color in the palette. Because of that, the css stuff doesn't work since it's doing the hue/saturation/brightness changes to the entire sprite.
::I've looked into an existing mediawiki extension, couldn't find anything. One thing I did't really look at is some type of lua script/module that would basically emulate what the game is doing. So some function that takes in the base image as well as the desired palette, and based on that finds and replaces each color. No idea what mediawiki's capabilities are on that front. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 05:31, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
:::We do have Scribunto installed now, so it's totally possible to do something in Lua too - forgot about that. I can add you to the group that grants access to edit the Module namespace if you want to give that a shot. If we use an extension, we'd probably need a custom one, similar to DFDiagram (or perhaps DFDiagram could be extended - it's in dire need of a rewrite anyway). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:43, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::::I asked around on the mediawiki irc, I think scribunto/lua is a deadend, at least for taking an uploaded image and doing stuff to it with a lua script. However I did come up with this even more bizarre solution, using block elements. [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwapShowcase2]], maybe less resource intensive? Definitely displays a lot worse though, probably unusable.
::::{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock2|palette-name=saffron}}
::::I dunno, maybe none of this is worth it and we should just write some external program to put all the images together offline, and then just mass upload. It wouldn't be ''that'' many... [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 06:37, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

====Is there an easy way to just paste images from the clipboard?====

I use KDE spectacle to take screenshots straight to the clipboard (after cropping) -- is there an easy way to just paste (and auto-upload) an image into an article? It would make it a lot easier to contribute images. [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 23:35, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Unfortunately there is not. I would be open to a MediaWiki extension to support this if someone finds one. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:32, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:: Looks like this could do it, but I haven't used it before: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SimpleBatchUpload [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 19:41, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

====Standards for adding graphical version screenshots and images====

Hello, new user looking into adding imagery from the new version. Is there a standard for quality of new screenshots or images? I noticed that at a certain zoom level (2 zooms in from the furthest zoomed-out view), the graphics appear crisp and 1:1 pixel scaled, and I would propose that all images be taken at this scale whenever possible. If they need to be displayed larger, they should be nearest neighbor scaled in a photo editing program at 100% increments (Microsoft Paint will do this if you first select the image rather than directly scaling the whole canvas). I would also propose that images should be cropped to conform to the 32x32 pixel grid when possible, though this could be problematic with so many new graphical elements exceeding the bounds of their tiles. I would say the best practice for capturing artwork for items, furniture etc. ought to be done in a 3x3 open area to avoid shadows from nearby walls, or else extracted from the raw files (if this doesn't run afoul of being able to re-create the graphical version using those assets).

I know that perfect is the enemy of good, and any documentation is better than none, but just thought I'd ask about this, and see if/where something like this ought to be posted. [[User:Unclesporky|Unclesporky]] ([[User talk:Unclesporky|talk]]) 13:58, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
:It has been stated in [[Template:V50 workshop]] that <q>screenshots should be at the "native" resolution</q> but someone could edit the [[Screenshot]] page for best practice for the steam version. Or post some examples in [[Talk:Screenshot]] to find out what is best? --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 14:21, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

=== Hotkeys/Menu navigation ===
Most key bindings and menus have changed. Should the article reflect a) only the old version, b) only the GUI version or c) both? For example, [[Bridge|bridges]] used to be built via {{k|b}} -> {{k|g}}, but now it's in Place strucutures {{k|b}} -> Constructions {{k|n}} -> Bridge {{k|b}}. What should be written in the article? Currently, it's {{k|b}} -> {{k|g}}. I ''think'' it should be only b), but I am not sure if there will be differences regarding hotkeys or menus between the premium version and the free version and then, c) would be the most appropriate option. --[[User:Prometherus|Prometherus]] ([[User talk:Prometherus|talk]]) 10:16, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

: Not sure. I wish the classic release soon --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 16:45, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:: Are you Toady's herald? Looks like it was just released! [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:18, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:: And our questions are answered, the old hotkeys seem to have been thrown out. Part of me is disappointed (useless muscle memory) but also relieved (unified UI for both versions is good in general and for the wiki). [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:25, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: According to info, in a sort of 'demo version' at that. I'll wait a little while longer, for myself.[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 18:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::::It's unlikely that keybindings in it will change significantly. My vote is that we should include information for both premium and classic, everywhere. Hopefully the keybindings are not different between versions. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:26, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Shouldn't it be based on the 50 or what verion the article is written for? [[User:Dominick|Dominick]] [[User_talk:dominick|(TALK)]] 18:42, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:::: The keybindings seem to be consistent between versions, (haven't checked exhausitvely, but since the menu layout is the same I think it is a good assumption). Should also keep in mind/consider that not all actions have keybindings. An option would be write 'Click on the <Example Text> icon or press {{k|E}}' [[User:Koos|Koos]] ([[User talk:Koos|talk]]) 23:14, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

=== Removed features & concepts ===

Since they're removed concepts, I've set [[Room]] to be a redirect for [[DF2014:Room]] and created [[Template:Activity zones]] for the nav bar bedrooms, etc, and made the necessary changes to [[Bedroom]] for it. Is this the correct approach, before I go on much further? (also a note, if it is, then [[Template:v50_rooms]] probably needs to be deleted) I also imagine that considering the number of changes in the interface, that things like [[Adventure mode]] and related pages might best be truncated to "not in 50.03" and when it does make it across, being more deliberately brought over in pieces? [[User:HawkOwl|HawkOwl]] ([[User talk:HawkOwl|talk]]) 06:23, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:Usually it is marked with [[Template:Removed_feature]]. For example: [[Dipscript]] or [[Party]]. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:45, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:: Ah, that's fair. Should that be mentioned in [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Versions#Redirects]]? [[User:HawkOwl|HawkOwl]] ([[User talk:HawkOwl|talk]]) 10:03, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:::I think the redirect policy mostly had in mind things that were removed a ''long'' time ago, like [[Tax collector]] and [[Economy]] (and the latter actually has a stub page as well). I guess we could clarify. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:34, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: The "current" redirects also cause the version box to incorrectly show that the current version has a page - e.g. [[23a:Cave_river]] shows a v50.04 version, but it's just a redirect back to that version. Similarly, what should happen to redirects like [[Clothes maker]], where a concept has evolved? It currently goes to [[23a:Clothes maker]] - that's correct if the user is trying to look up a very old concept, but if a new user is looking for "how to make clothes", they should be directed to [[Clothier]]. --[[User:Danny252|Danny252]] ([[User talk:Danny252|talk]]) 12:16, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: One should be careful with cv redirects. Most that were recently adjusted were unused plural forms (that should probably be deleted) but few like [[Crown]] needed that for backward compatibility. Removing the [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&type=revision&diff=279966&oldid=219482 cv part] means the the link on [[v0.31:Tilesets]] is now broken. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 22:30, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::If [[v0.31:Tilesets]] is about v0.31, it should not be using "main:" in its links - ''all'' of those links are going to pages about v50, not v0.31, regardless of whether the target is a redirect or not. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:37, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::: You right, I removed it. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 17:55, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Crown cv redir issue is now fixed, I believe. As goes with such cases where one can simply revert the troublesome edit, unless I've mistepped, myself? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 23:52, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
:Both [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&diff=prev&oldid=280026] and [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&diff=prev&oldid=279966] should not have had any effect, because "cv" is an alias to the main namespace now, just like "main". Proof: [[Crown]], [[cv:Crown]], [[main:Crown]]. It's possible caching is coming into play here, although I purged the redirect cache after making that alias change earlier this month... —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:02, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

I think there have been some changes not captured, but as a newb, I'm afraid to edit the page(s). A good example is Strawberry. I'm playing the Steam version right now and Strawberry plants are "not relevant to brewing" in Labor > kitchen > veg / fruit / leaves. Unless I'm mistaken and need to process them? Another example is the trade caravan = it seems the 3 square pathing no longer happens; it's just yak(s). 12:31, 28 December 2022 (UTC) 12:29, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
:Strawberries should be brewable according to the Raws.
:Trade wagons has been modified in v50. The first wagons will arrive at the same time your fort is becoming a barony. Until then, it's only pack animals and stairs are indeed fine. The [[Trading]] page needs a huge rework anyway... I'll try to do that next week. --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 13:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

<s>As far as I can tell, none of the workshop buildings in v50 have blocking tiles any more. There's a comment to the like in data/vanilla/vanilla_buildings/objects/building_custom.txt that says this "[BLOCK:1:0:0:0] workbenches no longer block". Hesitant to update that template as I'm not sure if it's referenced for all of the old versions too. </s> [[User:AndrielChaoti|AndrielChaoti]] ([[User talk:AndrielChaoti|talk]]) 05:54, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
: A new template has been created: {{tl|V50 workshop}} --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 13:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
::Thanks! In general, I would like to delegate the switching responsibility to the template (like how {{tl|creaturelookup/0}} works), but in cases where the parameters diverge significantly like with workshops, it could make sense to make an entirely new template. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:40, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

=== creature infobox prototype (moved) ===

Check it out, I made a temporary template and added it to the [[cow]]s page. Now it shows the sprites (but not the zombified versions yet). I wanted to show everyone a prototype of what v50 creature infoboxes should look like. Or at least something similar to it. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:11, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
:Hi, I'm new to editing wikis but I have done a bit of work with sprite sheets and I've been going through the DF data files to find the different graphics hoping to help with the animal pages. I've thrown together a template with grass and a few nature sprites (plants, a tree, and a rock) for size reference but I'm unsure how large the 'display' tiles in the middle of the template should be to suit all animals. I can see in the sprite sheets that some land animals have an adult and child sprite, so two tiles. Others have a male, female, and child, but after seeing you include the zombie cows I'm unsure if I should make it twice the size to add them too. Alternatively, I could grab some tiles from the haunted biomes for the zombie animals and make a separate template for a side-by-side comparison. Either way, let me know if this helps. I'd like to help with other graphics too as we add the premium tilesets but the animals seemed the easiest to tackle with me being new to wiki editing. ~~[[User:UristTheSeventh|UristTheSeventh]]
::@Zippy, I am a bit perplexed about the purple cows. Why do we need a zombified version of creatures on every page?
::@UristTheSeventh, we can use all the help. Maybe post an example, so that we can have something to compare and contrast.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 11:49, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

=== When do we remove the migration note on specific pages? ===

At what point can we remove the "this page was auto migrated from v47" warning? There are a bunch of small pages that are more or less accurate, if I've reviewed them, can I go ahead and remove the warning? [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 23:33, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Yes, feel free to remove it if you think all content is accurate. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

=== Any info on fixing "creature description not found?" ===

I see this issue on most creature pages, it seems to be due to a lookup that's not currently functioning? Cows interestingly doesn't have this issue but I couldn't figure out how to recreate whatever fix it's editor did. --[[User:Yallendallis|Yallendallis]] ([[User talk:Yallendallis|talk]]) 00:22, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
:That is the missing raws issue described above. Cow was fixed by the addition of [[cow/raw]]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:28, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
::Ah makes sense, not fully used to the language of wikis yet so I read over it while looking. To put this bit of questioning to rest for any future readers, is it correct that it's fine to update any raws manually, though it will be done automatically at some point? --[[User:Yallendallis|Yallendallis]] ([[User talk:Yallendallis|talk]]) 07:48, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

=== Adventurer Mode related sections ===

The topic has already been discussed [[#Removed features & concepts|above]], but I don't see a clear line on what to do with article sections that mention Adventurer Mode. Like for example in [[Butcher#Adventurer_mode|Butcher]].

'''a) Truncate''' or '''b) leave in place with a mention''' that the mode is not yet present IG but will be added in a future update?

Personally I think option b) is better, because I think it's silly to undo some work just to reintroduce it a few weeks later, with the necessary corrections. Even if a copy/paste of a previous version takes ~15 seconds, considering the number of articles that need to be corrected, it would be a bit of a waste of time.--[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 14:22, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

== Toggleable image ==

Any objections/comments to using this template for now for toggling between classic and premium images? I'd probably rename it to "Template:Premium-classic thumb image". I'm sure someone can come up with a better UI eventually, but should be easy to migrate at that point. I also think we should use the same customtoggle class for this and for the infobox. [[User:NiftyManiac|NiftyManiac]] ([[User talk:NiftyManiac|talk]]) 23:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

{{User:NiftyManiac/Sandbox/TemplateDualImage|
premium=File:Quickstart-finder.png|
classic=File:Quickstart-finder-partial.png
}}

{{User:NiftyManiac/Sandbox/TemplateDualImage|
premium=File:Quickstart-finder.png|
classic=File:Quickstart-finder-partial.png|
caption=My caption|
width=100px
}}

:This looks nice to me! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:30, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

: Good initiative. From the top of my head:
:* I suggest using a shorthand, no one wants to type 'Premium-classic thumb image'.
:* If we end up using toggle for infoboxes (not sure where we headed there), then I agree definitely same custom toggle class should be used for all, thus allowing to switch premium-classic view on the whole page at a click.
:* The button part on a separate row isn't pretty, creating a lot of dead space that can be used by the text. Are we set on the label 'toggle ascii'? Classic isn't Ascii per se, maybe we can use a 'toggle' with a tooltip {{tooltip|for example|does bla bla bla}}, or maybe we can get rid of the text and have a smaller icon button ([[User:Jan/sandbox#Metal_example|two examples]]).
: I hope that helps. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 11:21, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

:: I added [[Template:Dual image]] with some of your suggestions. Agree that it's not super pretty, feel free to try something different.

::* I put the toggle in the caption mostly because I gave up on trying to make a more sophisticated replacement for the default thumb image behavior, I'm sure someone with better wiki-fu could put together something more intelligent.
::* I cut the text down to just "Toggle"; I think the best solution would be a small graphic showing the old and new dwarf icons with arrows between them. [[User:NiftyManiac|NiftyManiac]] ([[User talk:NiftyManiac|talk]]) 19:21, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

{{Dual image|
premium=File:DFwiki5by53by3farm.png|
classic=File:Quickstart_layout_3.png|
width=100px|
caption=A 5x5 room with a 3x3 farm plot
}}
::: I updated the layout, now it should look just like a regular image thumb. I didn't had time to test it, if it doesn't work for you or you don't like it just revert the last change. cheers. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 21:46, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
::::I don't know which part of this talk page to put this, but I added the ability to add icons to the v50 workshops template. Leaving the icon part blank will not break the template in any way. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 09:47, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Versions

2023-01-03T14:21:46Z

Halavus: /* Standards for adding graphical version screenshots and images */ Forgot to sign

{{archive|
# [[DF Talk:Versions/Archive 1|Page 1]]}}

== Version 0.31.19 starts a new DF generation? ==

My reading of Toady's comments on the release of 0.31.19 is that it came out basically because he felt it would take too long to get DF all the way to 0.32. With the ore changes, the sitefinder changes, the addition of grazing and several different industries, there's a lot of changes between 31.18 and 31.19. So I'm thinking it might be a good idea to call it the first release of DF2011 - and what we refer to as "DF2010" would then become 0.31.18.

Thoughts? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:06, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

==Revisiting Redirects==

I wasn't around when the redirect policy was created, and I'm having trouble understanding the rationale. The example claims that linking [[Main:Cheese]] to [[cv:Cheese maker]] is problematic...but mainspace only ever redirects to the current version. If the best target in the current version is cheese maker, why not link to it directly? (It's not, at least for Cheese, since [[DF2012:Cheese]] exists now.) The explanation seems to be claiming that 40d articles that link to Cheese will follow the Mainspace link--but that hasn't been the case for a long while now. Articles in 40d automatically link against other articles in 40d, so that version remains internally consistent no matter where mainspace links to in the current version. For a current example, what do we gain by linking [[Main:Mead]] to [[cv:Mead]] and linking [[DF2012:Mead]] to [[DF2012:Alcohol]]?

If this really is just an outdated procedure, I recommend we drop the mummery and allow mainspace to link to cv:(best target). Double redirects ''may'' work (sometimes, but [[Main:Mead]] demonstrates a common problem where automatic redirection fails), but if they are unnecessary I think they should be avoided, partly because of problems like [[Main:Mead]] and partly because of the effort required to protect double redirects from users who believe they are problematic.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:16, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

:I was just thinking that. I'm currently attempting to write a basic extension to eliminate the need for mainspace redirects entirely, although Mediawiki's class structure may make this more difficult than I had hoped (the only method I've found for resolving redirects takes the ''article text'' instead of a title, e.g. "#REDIRECT ..."). I do agree that the current situation with redirects isn't ideal, so I'm hoping this will work better (once I get it to work). --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:42, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Okay, that wasn't quite as clear as I meant it to be. In general, I think this is a tricky situation. Mediawiki wasn't designed to have five content namespaces, and certainly not chains of redirects between them. The problem that was pointed out in the [[DF:REDIR|policy]] is the fact that with:
Main:Foo -> cv:Bar
pages in the cv: namespace can't use [[<nowiki/>foo]], since the namespace links modification causes it to be treated as [[<nowiki/>cv:foo]] instead, which doesn't exist. The current suggested solution is this:
Main:Foo -> cv:Foo -> cv:Bar
This fixes the problem of [[<nowiki/>foo]] not working on cv pages, but creates issues with double redirects not always working. Another solution, which is more intuitive to new editors, is:
Main:Foo -> cv:Bar
cv:Foo -> cv:Bar
Both require creating two redirects. The first method has the advantage of ''ensuring'' that the cv redirect exists (otherwise, main:foo would be a redlink), while the second has the advantage of working more reliably in a couple cases.

What I'm trying to do is make main:Foo "jump" to cv:Foo when cv:foo exists, ''even if main:foo doesn't exist'' (basically it would treat all mainspace pages as redirects to cv pages, but only if the cv page exists and not the mainspace page). I had main:Bar jumping to cv:Bar fine, but if cv:Foo redirected to cv:Bar, accessing main:Foo would mysteriously stop at cv:Foo even if I increased the redirect limit. What I'm trying to do now is follow the redirects internally, without relying on Mediawiki to do it automatically - unfortunately, that has proved to be harder than I had hoped (and I sent my web server into an infinite loop while trying). I will try to work on this some more when I get a chance, although I'm not sure when that'll be yet :(. For now, feel free to fix broken double mainspace redirects as necessary, as long as redirects in the DF2012 namespace stay pointing to the right page (and new mainspace redirects get added in the DF2012 namespace too). --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:21, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

:You're treating cv like a namespace--it's not. It is simply shorthand for "fill in the current version here". [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Briess&diff=182404&oldid=181281 As I discovered a long time ago on a server not far away], linking from Main:Foo to cv:Foo tends to break redirection chains. If, instead of linking to cv:Foo, you link to DF2012:Foo, it might just work. It would, of course, be better if your patch could evaluate cv itself, but even if you have to hardcode the current version it's a single point of maintenance that requires update very infrequently. (For that matter, we could probably dispense with the cv hack entirely and just have a bot update mainspace links from DF2012 to DF201X when we switch to a new version.)--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:05, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
::I know cv isn't a namespace - I was just trying to avoid future confusion when the DF2012 namespace changes. It's interesting that changing "cv" to "DF2012" fixes some broken redirects, although I've found that simply making an edit to a broken redirect can usually fix it as well. I've actually had the most problems with double redirects when the second one (in the DF2012 namespace) doesn't use the DF2012 prefix (e.g. main:Foo containing <nowiki>[[cv:Foo]] and DF2012:Foo containing [[Bar]]</nowiki>). I'd rather keep the cv alias even if it isn't necessary for mainspace redirects when I get the patch to work, since it makes it easier to refer to the current version of the page (for example, several MDF articles contain links to a vanilla page for things that don't change in the mod).
::Also, using aliases like "cv" is supported by Mediawiki; in fact, several WMF wikis use them (for example, "[[wikipedia:WP:Redirects|WP:Redirects]]" on Wikipedia). It's quite likely that Mediawiki isn't processing double redirects using aliases correctly, though, since that's uncommon on most wikis. --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:35, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

In light of the lack of support for the current redirect policy, I propose we replace the current redirect section with:

:Mainspace article pages should use the cv: alias when redirecting to a versioned page, which will automatically update the link when a new version is released. For example, page "Main:Foo" should redirect to page "cv:Bar" (where "Bar" is the page that best describes the topic Foo in the current version).

:Pages in mainspace should only redirect to an older versioned page if that content no longer exists in the current version of the game (e.g. [[Cave river]], [[Chunk]]). In these cases the cv: alias cannot be used.

:Pages inside a versioned namespace should not use the cv: alias. Instead, they should redirect to the best page within that versioned namespace (e.g. [[DF2012:Dodging]], [[v0.31:Drink]]).

:Due to limitations of the wiki software, double redirects should be avoided if possible. When fixing double redirects in mainspace, please make sure to use the cv: alias as appropriate.

If no one objects, I will make this change in a few days.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:21, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

:Okay with me. It may be worth mentioning that double redirects only really need to be changed when they don't work (since changing a lot of redirects that work isn't necessary), but I think it's clearer and more relevant than the current policy. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:26, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Done.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:55, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

I was finally able to get my extension to work after being motivated by one too many malfunctioning redirects. It now causes nonexistent pages in the main namespace to behave exactly like redirects to their DF2012 counterparts (when linked to, accessed directly, and transcluded). Double redirects also work (up to 100, in fact, although that was a temporary safety measure that I'll probably change). This means we'll be able to safely get rid of all mainspace redirects (redirects that redirect to something other than "cv" will still function if not deleted). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:20, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
:What about articles which don't exist in the current version but do exist in older versions? Will those still need mainspace redirects, or will your extension be able to automatically redirect them to v0.31/40d/23a? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 01:29, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
::It ignores all mainspace pages that actually have content, including redirects, so pages like [[masons guild]] won't be affected (unless deleted). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:47, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Done and deployed. [[Cat]] is still treated as a redirect, even though I just deleted it (try clicking on the "redirected from" link). Pages that exist are ignored, so [[Masons guild]] and [[History of Dwarf Fortress]] still function normally (as a redirect to a 23a page and a non-redirect, respectively). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm sending around a bot right now to delete all redirects of the format "foo -> cv:foo" (a surprising number don't fit this format, so I'm leaving them alone for now). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:43, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

:I'm confused. Do we use double redirects or not? Is there a single place we define our linking policy (including redirects), and is it updated?
:I had trouble linking to [[Consolidated_development]] in [[v0.34:Dragon]]. It kept pointing to v0.34:Consolidated_development, which does not exist. I ended up linking to Main:Consolidated_development to make it work. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] ([[User talk:Nahno|talk]]) 10:18, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

::That's a separate problem altogether - links in the versioned namespaces (v0.34, v0.31, 40d, 23a) automatically link to pages within their namespace. I may be able to set up a fallback to mainspace once I'm able to deploy again, but for now the "main:" alias is the intended solution. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 11:36, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

== Google often directs people to the 0.31 page ==

I've noticed a couple of times that finding a wiki page from an external search will often drop me onto a page from an older version. Is it possible to mitigate this somehow for new players? I could imagine something like redirecting old:Bar -> cv:Bar unless the user has come from old:Foo; no idea if that would actually work though. [[User:PeridexisErrant|PeridexisErrant]] ([[User talk:PeridexisErrant|talk]]) 11:48, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

:As a temporary solution, I could write a script that displays a banner of some kind if the user came from an external site. I'll ask Briess if he can do anything on the server level to increase the weighting of the current version's pages. (Obviously there are situations where people are looking for old pages, like [[23a:dungeon master]], so we don't want to disable indexing entirely on old pages.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:03, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

== DF2014? ==

As Toady [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ draws closer to a new release], it might be worthwhile to discuss the addition of a new version to the wiki. The upcoming release covers two years of changes and introduces a number of new plants, foods, drinks, multi-tile trees, climbing, jumping, etc., so it is likely to have significant changes from the current DF2012. To avoid having people start new pages (and lose all the effort spent refining the prior version's page), I think it would be best to have a bot automatically copy over the DF2012 pages as a starting point for DF2014. I would suggest that these copied pages include a noticebox template mentioning that the content may be outdated, so that we can easily track which pages have been reviewed. I think either the {{tl|version check}} or {{tl|old}} template would work. --[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:43, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

:This is what [[User:QuietBot]] did after the 0.34 release, so it's certainly possible to use the same script to migrate to DF2014. I would like a way of tagging migrated pages, since inaccuracies in some pages went unnoticed for months after they were migrated. Since {{tl|old}} is already in use, {{tl|version check}} may be a better solution (it can be reworded slightly, or we can make a separate template for DF2014 migration). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:23, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
:Made [[Template:DF2014 migrated]] as an example. Any thoughts? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:32, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

== Redirects inconsistency ==

Following a redirect is supposed to be exactly the same as going straight to the page it redirects to, but this actually isn't the case:
* Go to [[Seeds]] and you get [[v0.34:Seed]] (outdated)
* Go to http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Seeds&redirect=no and click on the link and you get to [[DF2014:Seed]] (current)
So if you search for "seed", the top result is the DF2014 version. But search for "seeds" and you get the redirect, which sends you to the outdated page instead. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 23:22, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

While I'm talking about redirects, it seems redirects to sections don't work: see [[DF2014:How do I manage my seeds and crops]]. I know MediaWiki is capable of this trick because Wikipedia does it. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 23:32, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

:I have absolutely no idea why [[seeds]] redirects to a v0.34 page - it could be a Mediawiki bug. The section links issue is due to a known issue in the redirect extension we use, which has yet to be fixed. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:01, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
:It looks like deleting both [[Seeds]] and [[DF2014:Seeds]] fixed things (by allowing AutoRedirect to handle the redirects instead). Feel free to tag any others with {{tl|bad redirect}}. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:03, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
::It gets stranger. [[Vial]] redirects explicitly to [[cv:Flask]] which displays (when you look at it with &redirect=no) as [[DF2014:Flask]], but still goes to the v0.34 version. It seems redirects interpret the cv: pseudo-namespace (or whatever it's called) in an outdated way. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 18:08, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
::I've added a note to this page about this issue. If it gets resolved, the note should be removed. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 21:04, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

==Reorganizing versions==

The internet deals with moved content... poorly. Google is still linking to v0.34 pages more than a year after the switch to "DF2014", and even the wiki software still has cached links pointing to the old version pages.

I propose reorganizing versions on the wiki to avoid moving content whenever possible. Instead of having a temporary "current version" namespace that changes occasionally, all the current information gets promoted to the Main namespace. When the next version split occurs, the Main articles as of a certain revision number can be copied to the newly-created permanent "old version" namespace, while all the current information remains in Main. This not only fixes the link rot issue, but it has a few other benefits as well: fewer administrative tasks, no lockdown (a historical version of the Main pages can be copied at any point, even if the Main articles are already modified for the new version), almost all the article history is maintained in the Main article (instead of being spread unevenly across multiple versions), no "temporary" namespaces are needed, fewer problematic long redirect chains, and hopefully less user confusion (since Main gets priority in search results, etc.).

As an example, today we would not have a DF2014 namespace (which is good because "temporary" namespaces historically disappear anyway). If you ran a search for [[seed]] you'd end up at Main:seed, which would have all the current information on seeds. The version box at the top of the page would still link to the older versions of the seed article. When a new version is released, an admin would choose a revision number and copy the Main:seed article as it exists at that revision number to v0.40:seed. That's it. One historical copy that needs little to no new editing, and zero redirections/moves.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:02, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

:Makes sense to me. It would involve a lot of work, though (e.g. fixing templates and categories to account for the current version being in mainspace), although that should be doable thanks to {{tl|category}}, {{tl|version switch}}, etc.. A bot could be set up to copy revisions from before a release date as well, which would be more difficult (and maybe slower) than a direct copy, but not severely. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:24, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

:Actually, there are a few issues with that, namely that there wouldn't be an easy way to distinguish between versioned and non-versioned mainspace pages. There are ways to resolve Google search priority (we can exclude pages from older versions from search engine results if there are newer versions of those pages available, for example). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:47, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::There aren't very many non-versioned mainspace pages, and determining if a page is versioned is as simple as looking for the version template and/or categories added by the version template (e.g. copy [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:Current this category] instead of Main:*). The problem with "suggesting" newer pages to Google is that they obviously aren't crawling our wiki regularly (if they were, the fact that the mainspace redirects point to new pages would automatically be picked up). Even if your Google hints worked they wouldn't do anything for all the other broken links out on the 'net.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:35, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::: Google actually crawls the wiki constantly - we probably get crawl hits from google for a continuous block of 2-3 hours per day, each and every day. Why they are slow to update is beyond me though. I can't remember why we didn't do this initially, but there was a technical limitation involved if I remember correctly. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] ([[User talk:Briess|talk]]) 22:05, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::: There are <meta> tags that can be used to hide pages from search results (for search engines that recognize them, that is). Searching for {{tl|av}} or [[:Category:Current]] might work, although we'd have to make sure all of the DF2014 pages include that (some pages don't, particularly some disambiguation pages, although all of them should). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:53, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

:Is there a particular reason main and current are separate to begin with?—[[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 00:17, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

::It's mostly intended to distinguish between versioned and non-versioned pages and make version-related templates simpler to work with, since every versioned page has a namespace. I wasn't active here in 2010 when this system was created, so Briess and Emi would know more.
::Another issue I just thought of with Loci's suggestion is categories - currently, categories like [[:Category:Animals]] are used to organize the versioned sub-categories. Sure, we can change {{tl|Category}} to categorize mainspace pages in [[:Category:v0.40:Animals]] or [[:Category:DF2014:Animals]], but that would be less straightforward because there wouldn't be a namespace with that name (until pages are migrated when a newer major version is released). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:05, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

:Moving current pages to the main namespace sounds like a great idea. -[[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] ([[User talk:Jecowa|talk]]) 20:47, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Another thought: dealing with migrating redirects could be difficult with this proposal - specifically, determining which redirects should be migrated to a versioned namespace. Redirects can't contain {{tl|av}}, at least not before ``#REDIRECT``. I ''think'' it would be possible to copy pages in two stages, though - all non-redirects first, then all redirects whose targets were also copied. Thoughts? Anything I'm missing? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:41, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Some subpages (particularly /raw and /Edit notice) also deliberately lack {{tl|av}}, although those shouldn't be too hard to handle. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:35, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

:Redirect pages (and all other edge cases I've looked at) can be included in categories (like [[:Category:Current]]) to determine whether or not they should be copied into an archival version. But if the redirects are "properly qualified" then they can all be copied over blindly. Mainspace redirects pointing to versioned information should use a blank namespace (which will be automatically constrained to the archival namespace); mainspace redirects pointing to unversioned information should use an explicit "Main" (which will automatically link back to the unversioned page). Then, when [[[[Toady]]]] gets copied to [[[[v0.4x:Toady]]]] it will point back to [[[[Main:Toady One]]]]. Meanwhile, [[[[Beer]]]], copied to [[[[v0.4x:Beer]]]], will properly point to [[[[v0.4x:Alcohol]]]].--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:00, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

::I think qualifying redirects is the best solution here - categorizing redirects manually is another possible source of errors, since categories (or a lack thereof) would only be visible on the redirect page itself, and [[:Category:Current]] is a hidden category. Copying over mainspace redirects into versioned namespaces would also resolve some issues that have come up due to those not reliably existing currently. I should be able to set up a bot script to add "main:" to current mainspace redirects (and it shouldn't break anything, since those redirects go to other mainspace pages anyway). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:57, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

(Note: I wrote all of this without noticing the previous discussion above.) I was wondering, when the wiki creates a new namespace for a major release again, if it is possible to ''not'' create a namespace for the next current version (e.g. "DF202x") and instead have the mainspace articles (which are currently redirects) become the new cv and move the content there. Therefore, [[cv:Cat]] would just be "[[Cat]]" (or [[Main:Cat]]).

Certain namespace-related templates like [[Template:Ns/0]] would need to be changed, though nothing significant as far as I know. For most cases, any "DF2014" would be replaced with "Main" or even blank. There's also multiple extensions handling the current namespace system and they may need to be modified too, though I'm not sure if or how much. I'm guessing based on the discussions above that it will change stuff up.

My reason is the current namespace is increasingly becoming more anachronistic. "DF2014" could be misinterpreted as "this page is about the 2014 version of the game" or "this page was last updated in 2014", which I've seen a few people in forums mention. Granted that [[Template:Av]] is on the top of very article, I still think the namespace is inconsistent with the recentness of the article. But how is this related to what I'm asking for? Let's say we continue the current system: if we happen to do a new namespace change this year and create DF2020, the next major release (after graphics/UI) will be mythgen, which is estimated to take several years to develop (the Big Wait), and so the anachronism will start over again. The proposed way will prevent this from occurring for the next major release and every release thereafter.

I think the confusion with having a namespace that becomes old-fashioned overtime supersedes the confusion with not marking current versioned articles with a namespace. Most users just search "Cat" on the search bar and naturally expect to get information about the latest release of DF. So if users go a page that's just titled "Cat", they won't expect outdated info about cats from a previous release. That's how the current system works anyways. We'll be skipping the two-step process that we have now. It'll make several wiki tasks much simpler as well. Editors can create new articles for current versions without remembering to add a namespace. It'll fix any existing issues with (double) redirects; instead of [[Main:Kitten]] redirecting to [[cv:Kitten]], which goes to [[DF2014:Kitten]], which then redirects to [[DF2014:Cat]], [[Main:Kitten]] would just redirect to [[Main:Cat]]. And the cv: alias will no longer be necessary since "cv:" = "Main:" and will be forever.

There's no need to differentiate the current version and previous versions with a namespace for the current version is what I'm saying. Articles of previous versions will retain their respective namespaces. Users will still type "40d:Cat" to go to the 40d version of the article, but if they want the current version, they'll just type "Cat" (like now). The mainspace containing the "live" version of an article is natural and would create no uncertainty when browsing the wiki. And it would simplify the wiki somewhat and future-proof this anachronism problem. As a bonus, this change will also prevent web search engines from showing previous version pages when typing "DF cat" or something. (This isn't happening right now as DF2014 has been the current namespace for ~6 years, but it'll happen again when everything moves to a new namespace.)

This is the gist of it, and I may have ignored most of the problems with this proposal. I have personally wished for the whole version namespacing be made less complicated and have been seeking for a solution, and I feel like this is the best way to go about in the future. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:27, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

:<s>Whoops, looks like Loci already proposed this exact thing long ago. I definitely missed that discussion and should have checked first. My apologies. I'll move my text to that section and remove this one. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:36, 14 August 2020 (UTC)</s> Done. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:40, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

:The main issue I have with that is that putting pages about the current version in a namespace also differentiates between those pages and pages not about ''any'' version (for example, [[Toady One]] does not need a 40d or v0.34 page). Yes, we can use {{tl|av}} to mark versioned pages, but people often forget to add that to new pages. The current system also allows determining whether a page is versioned or not from its title, which makes migrations a lot faster. Relying on {{tl|av}} would require either reading the content of every page (which would slow scripts down significantly) or cross-checking with the list of all pages including the template (feasible, but a bit more complicated, and still susceptible to missing templates). I suppose that manually fixing and migrating pages missing {{tl|av}} later wouldn't be too much work, though.
:I am definitely in favor of changing "DF2014" (or a new namespace) to "Current", though. I was in favor of "DF2014" in 2014, but I don't think it makes sense anymore, and "Current" seemed to be a popular alternative in both the DF2012 and DF2014 discussions on the matter. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:02, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

== Weird redirect behaviour ==

[[Pump stack]] redirects to [[cv:Screw pump#Pump stack]]. If you look at the redirect itself it says it redirects to DF2014 namespace, which is correct. But if you actually follow the redirect, it goes to v0.34 namespace. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 16:10, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
:Yeah, that's part of the issue described in the above section (the wiki caching part, not on Google's end.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:00, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

== v50 organization ==

Some wiki admins have had a talk on Discord and decided that the most sustainable path forward is to put content for all future versions of DF in the main namespace. We will be working on a bot to do this in the next few days. Feel free to chime in with suggestions here. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:56, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

:Is it maybe possible to do backwards-namespacing? Like we have a "Main" namespace, which people are free to update, and whenever there's a new version of DF the "Main" namespace is copied into a namespace for the then old version, much like how you'd branch a stable branch from a development branch when working with a git-project? [[User:Therahedwig|Therahedwig]] ([[User talk:Therahedwig|talk]]) 23:13, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

::Yeah, we could do that if we decide to. We were talking about doing that for v50, actually, and might still do something similar to preserve edit history if it doesn't end up being too hard to automate. Our hope is that we will not introduce new namespaces for v50 -> v5x, unless there is a serious breaking change (and hopefully there isn't one). But if we change our mind, one advantage of the type of migration you mentioned is that it can be done retroactively - we can copy historical revisions that were current at the time of the release, and would only lose some typo fixes made after the release that apply to earlier versions as well. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:11, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

ETA is < 24 hours. Doing some final checks on a migration script. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 07:08, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

: We should really have a task list as there are many things that change and need updating. Including but not limited to:
:* Most templates that used the previous namespace convention broke, including nav templates.
:* Many game files changed locations and their pages need to be updated.
:* Raws need to be updated.
:* Various features added, changed, removed.
:* UI has been changed -- though I am more inclined to wait for classic release to avoid extra work --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 06:56, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

"''Raws need to be updated.''" Including applying text wraparound where necessary, I suppose - more than a few of them have proven to be that special kind of...''difficult'' to navigate otherwise, shall we say? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:There is already a task list in the [[#v50 migration|section below]] that includes templates and raws, with an explanation. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

== v50 migration ==

The initial migration script is done. New content is in the '''main''' namespace, e.g. [[Cat]]. Old content is still at [[DF2014:Cat]]. History was migrated to the ''new'' (main namespace) articles.

I know several things are broken still. Please reply if you find any others:
<div style="border-left: 2px solid red">
* <s>Versioned templates haven't been migrated yet (e.g. {{tl|vermin}} on [[Ant]])</s>
** Fixed. Most were migrated by a bot.
* Raws are missing on all pages that use them.
** This also affects sidebars, such as on [[Cat]] and [[Microcline]].
** Update: The DFRawFunctions extension has been upgraded to include v50 raws, using the "v50:" prefix for filenames instead of "DF2014:". I haven't finished a migration script to create the /raw pages themselves, but they can typically be created manually by copying the DF2014 /raw pages and changing "DF2014" to "v50" everywhere. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:20, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
* Some pages where the DF2014 page was a redirect to a main namespace page that contained content were migrated incorrectly.
** In this case, the main namespace page is usually a redirect to itself. This can be fixed by undoing LethosorBot's edit to the main namespace page, then copying the content to the DF2014 page.
** Update: most seem to have been fixed manually - thanks! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
* <s>Some main-namespace talk pages redirect to DF2014 talk pages. Some of these redirects work, and some (usually older ones) do not.</s>
** Fixed with a bot. Some redirects from talk pages to other deleted talk pages are now broken, e.g. [[Talk:Above_ground]] (exists) -> [[Talk:Tile attributes]] (redlink). I am leaving them like that because they redirect to where the talk page should be created, but I'm also fine with people deleting them if they really want to. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
* {{tl|quality}} for new articles is disabled (see below)
* Some links from DF2014 to Main weren't working: e.g. the version selector [[DF2014:Mason's workshop]] was linking to [[DF2014:Main:Mason's workshop]] instead of [[Main:Mason's workshop]]. I'm not sure exactly why, but I fixed it with a change to the NamespaceLinks extension. Let me know if you spot similar broken links. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:19, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
</div>

—[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:54, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:The quality levels of the 50.03 pages seem to be missing. I'm not sure if that's covered under that first point. [[User:Trainzack|Trainzack]] ([[User talk:Trainzack|talk]]) 06:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::If the the [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Quality]] feature can be made to work with namespace scheme change, I suggest to automatically assign the lowest quality rating to all pages, alternately add the {{tl|old}} to all pages. Otherwise there will be a lot of pages that will fall through the cracks. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:12, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::I disabled {{tl|quality}} in the main namespace because it would require some rework to make the rating script and the template work properly there. Feel free to take a stab at the template. I will see what can be done on the extension side. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::What needs to be done on the template side? I'm not sure I see too big of an issue leaving pages as "unknown-quality" for now (or just change the default to tattered) until we get the rating script working. Is that script up anywhere, anything that could be helped with? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 11:10, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::They're already marked as unknown. Really the only issue I know of with the template is that it doesn't show up with some of the newer skins we added, and that can be fixed by getting rid of the absolute positioning. As for the script, it can be found at https://github.com/DF-Wiki/QualityRatings, and the issue is really only with the configuration system not recognizing the main namespace as valid. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:29, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::Great, I started having a crack at fixing the template with different themes. Is the preference to get some CSS going and then include it in the global stylesheet (i.e different styles per theme) or to try and get a "one size fits all" fix? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 08:14, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

It appears some pages are redirecting recursively and never resolving correctly, like the [[https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Character_table&redirect=no|character table]] and [[tileset repository]] 07:35, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
: Indeed, these can be caught here: [[Special:DoubleRedirects]] --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:51, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

It might be useful to change the notice title to "release information '''for editors'''" --[[Special:Contributions/142.59.195.176|142.59.195.176]] 10:26, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Can do. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::New here, hello. Should we set a date where we remove/only show the banner for logged in users. There are (some) pages that have 4 different notices about the upgrade. [[Engraving]] is one such page, the top banner states "information for editors", we then have the "this page was migrated" banner, a version selection which warns the article might be inaccurate, and a smaller banner saying the page might need to be updated. Quite a lot of screen space, I think we can start to slowly reduce the amount of warnings this coming month? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 10:07, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Main talkpages seem to redirect to DF2014 talk. Not sure if it is intentional but I like it, though we should pay attention when creating new discussion relating to v50 ending up there.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 14:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:That's unintentional. I specifically wrote the migration script to not move talk pages, but that has the side-effect of leaving any previously-created "Talk -> DF2014 talk" redirects intact. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Yo Lethosor, are we adding graphic sprites for the pages in some way? Or are we waiting for you to add some sort of new template or something? I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that the current templates don't allow that. Not sure if I'm allowed to change/create any templates either, as I don't want to break things for hundreds of pages. Edit: And IF the icons are allowed, should they be left alone, or 2×-3× sized like how the Minecraft wiki does it? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 14:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Depends on which templates you mean. There are copyright concerns with uploading a premium sprite sheet, for instance. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::I'm not talking about uploading an entire sprite sheet. I'm just talking about individual icons for each respective page. One image for cows, one for horses, one for werebeasts, etc. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 16:50, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::If we do that for every creature in the sprite sheet, that's not much different (in terms of copyright) from uploading the entire sprite sheet. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:09, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::Is there someone we can talk to about that? We finally get this new game with graphics, and then we can't use the very graphics of the game? No matter what the rules are, I'd say that would be the stupidest thing ever. I know I'm infamous here when it comes to copyright and images and stuff, but about 80% of game wikis out there are completely unofficial, and use game file images like no one's business. I can't imagine anyone's door being knocked on if we used the game's sprites, but I won't add any here until we have a go-ahead. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 17:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::...I've made noise in Mayday's direction on this matter, at least (prob an incorrect maneuver, ''but'').[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 17:55, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::: I hope some sort of arrangement can be made so we can use the new sprites with permission/limits, just as we are using the raw files. Otherwise we are all (devs and editors alike) shooting ourselves in the foot here.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 21:07, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::::I just thought of something. We're supposedly not allowed to upload entire sprite sheets, right? What if - for the time being - we just use a few of them for the purpose of testing out new infoboxes? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:46, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::I don't know. If someone could ask Kitfox and post the response here, that would be great. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::::::I've reached out to Alexandra, but she hasn't answered yet. Until then I found these old approvals from the previous community manager, Feeona: ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.msg8243633#msg8243633 link1], [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176640.msg8243642#msg8243642 link2]). Waiting for a newer response until we begin mass uploads is probably the politer option, but like Zippy said, it is also standard for wikis to use game sprites with less approval. I second their idea of trying it out with a few images to test the infoboxes. On the extreme off-chance (and I do think it is) Kitfox protests we can always remove these few. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 22:19, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::And here is a third, more official statement: ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.msg8249718#msg8249718 link3]). Perhaps that address of info@kitfoxgames.com is the better channel to ask for a confirmation, rather than Discord DMs, but I will be going to bed, so it is best if someone else does that. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 22:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::Thanks for tracking this down! Ok, sprites should be fine, but let's avoid uploading the entire premium tileset as a single image, for instance (as the forum thread says, "use common sense"). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:21, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::: Looks good, permission is always preferable over fairuse, I think it is a win win for all involved. I agree that we shouldn't upload entire sprite sheets (e.g. there is no reason to upload the windmill from every direction or whole construction phase for workshops) and that there are a lot of details that needs to be ironed out through testing. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 05:07, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::We have a green light on uploading all and any sprites. Their response to me can be seen [https://i.imgur.com/BhmHjzC.png here]. I'm sure someone else confirmed it before me. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:00, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Shifting temporarily to a new issue, is the documentation of [[Template:ArticleVersion]] outdated? It would seem so to me, since the current version no longer has its own namespace, with the templates needing updating being different ones. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 18:30, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:I think it is still accurate enough. We left open the possibility of making another namespace in the future, albeit with a different migration strategy - see [[#v50 organization|above]]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Some Changes to infoboxes might be needed. Too bad [[User:Doorkeeper]] isn't around. He did a great work with navbox project--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:52, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

I just realized that raw files aren't stored as regular wiki pages but loaded via the DFRawFunctions extension (hence the need to update). Good news it's going to be handled in bulk, consistently and relatively easy to updated. Even better it's Lethosor problem ;) Also I just realized that all the "raw files" (txt files in the new vanilla folder) are released into the public domain. Both are probably not news to the vets but I'll leave it here for those who less up to date like myself. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:35, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

: I noticed that some templates aren't working properly in the new namespace, e.g. [[Basalt]] entry had its raw updated manually but the infobox fail to show any details. Cursory look suggest {{t|layerlookup/0}} need a minor tweak. This should do the work
:: Replace: <nowiki>{{layerlookup/aux|{{{{FULLPAGENAME}}/raw}}|uses={{{uses|}}}|wiki={{{wiki|}}}}}</nowiki>
:: With___: <nowiki>{{layerlookup/aux|{{</nowiki>:<nowiki>{{FULLPAGENAME}}/raw}}|uses={{{uses|}}}|wiki={{{wiki|}}}}}</nowiki>
: Not sure what the plan and ETA with raws update so I didn't touch this high usage template for now. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 08:11, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

::Please do feel free to make this update. I am still working on a script to create the <code>/raw</code> pages themselves. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be an idea to add to the Sitenotice to remove the {{tl|migrated article}} tag when an article has been fully updated? I see many articles that seem to be updated still have the tag. And/or advise to make use of the {{tl|verify}} for sections still in need of checking? --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 10:12, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:Probably a good shout. The "see this page" link does include the detail on removing but we should more explicitly encourage removing the banner once a page has at least been looked over. [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 11:01, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== v50 specific issues ==
=== Graphics===
Follow up on the use of game sprites and the need to trying it out with a few images to test the infoboxes. First sprite [[:File:Beds v50.png]] was uploaded and used on [[Bed]] entry. Any thoughts? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:06, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:Seems like it should be rearranged to be horizontal. Also, has there been a serious discussion about copyright? Full screenshots are 100% fine, but you start going into a grey area when you upload pieces of a spritesheet. I'm of the opinion that it's all fine as long as it's inconvenient to reconstruct the full sheet from the individual images. Maybe a further restriction could be you shouldn't upload any of the art unless it's used in an infobox (maybe an exception for pieces of the UI). And one more restriction could be you shouldn't show everything, like in your bed example, maybe just the wooden bed is good enough, leave out the stone and metal, especially since those can only be made from strange moods. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:43, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::Actually, your bed image is kinda bad for showing off what a bed looks like because it doesn't show the pillow/blankets. That might point to cropped screenshots being the best path, although less convenient for the uploader, as you don't get details left out. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:46, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::I created a new license template [[Template:Copyright game]], based it on the way the RimWorld wiki does things. Call it a prototype, but it's probably how your bed image should be labelled. Indeed, I added it to it already. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]])

::: I agree that the horizontal arrangement would suit better here and that we should strive to represent how things look in-game. Otherwise, I am not too concerned about people being able to reconstruct anything (lets just say that ''anyone'' interested in that can get the real thing from the game files), also it seem we have permission to use the sprits on top of fairuse. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 19:55, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

::: Modifying the existing template to allow the inclusion of the new sprites is easy (Something like [https://ibb.co/zFXCrjd this]?) The big question is the matter of consistency is there any exceptions that will break the format (size wise with variant bloat for example), the sprite naming format, etc --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:44, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::: If we are going to show a variant for each material type, then maybe these should be added as separate images so we can add a tooltip for each image. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:49, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

:I've got another prototype going here and here: [[User:Brightgalrs/vector.css]] and [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox]]. (You'll need to add the css stuff to your own /vector.css). Basically it's a way to recolor images using css classes. No idea if there's a better way. Also, the real implementation would require a change to [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:Should mention, there ''is'' a different way, just upload each image 16 times, one for each coloring. But maybe that's not very elegant. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:45, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

: It should be noted that soon the classic edition will be released, hence one should plan to have both the Premium and classic alongside in that little space --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 03:14, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::I'm looking into a tab extension to potentially support this in infoboxes. Perhaps [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Tabs Extension:Tabs]? I tried [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TabberNeue Extension:TabberNeue], but it displays a placeholder if JavaScript is disabled, which isn't great. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: The Neue Tabber seem to works pretty much like the old one (which fandom [https://coding-help.fandom.com/wiki/Tabber#Adding_images_into_tabbers still use]) defaulting to showing the first tab only. Quick look suggest that neue work the same, plus the notice that 'Tabber requires Javascript to function' warning? if so, and if it is a bother, then you should be able to edit out the tabberneue-noscript string in code. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 06:29, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: I much prefer your tabber solution, but if that fails we can also use the gallery slideshow mode. If so, beware it has no way to control image size so the images have to be maliciously uploaded using the exact same size. example:
<gallery mode="slideshow">
File:SteelSample.png
File:TinSample.png
File:ZincSample.png
File:GoldSample.png
</gallery> --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:19, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

==== adding premium set to Infobox ====
I am unclear where are we going with this? 
1) Will (A) tabs be implemented, (B) we be using mediawiki toggle [[Template_talk:V50_workshop|example]] for premium and classic/blocked, (c) put images side by side, or (d) something else? 
2) Also [[silver]] and [[Pig iron]] use very different image style for example. 
3) Anything else you want ? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 12:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

: Personally, I would love tabs to be implemented, but I think that side by side might be best for most. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 12:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
: Here is rough layout we can use. It should fit most buildings given the default sprite size. There is also a different floor plan for both (inspired by reddit)

{|
|- valign=top
|
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse; "
|+ 5×5
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc; "
|<div class="mw-customtoggle-infoboxtab mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="border-top-right-radius: 10px; border-top-left-radius:10px;">toggle</div>
|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|- valign=top
|colspan=2|<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">
[[File:Siege workshop.png|center|160px]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab"">
{|
|rowspan=2 style="width:50%; font-size: 125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Siege workshop}}</center>
|style="line-height: 1em; font-size: 125%;"|
{| style="border-spacing:4px;"
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|}
|-
| style="text-align: center;" | Layout
|}
</div>
|}
|
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse; "
|+ 3×3
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc; "
|colspan=2 style="text-align: right;"|<div class="mw-customtoggle-infoboxtab mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="float:left; border-top-right-radius: 10px; border-top-left-radius:10px;">toggle</div>{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|- valign=top
|rowspan=2 style="width:50%;"|
<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">[[File:Carpenter's workshop.png]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab""><center>
{| style="font-size: 175%; border-spacing: 0; background-color: black; border: 2px solid black"
|- 
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|"|7:0:0}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|{{=}}|6:0:0}}
|-
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
|-
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|]|0:0:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
|}</center></div>
|
{| style="border-spacing:5px;"
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|}
|-
| style="text-align: center;" | Layout
|}
</div>
|
{| style="width:200px; height:100px; padding:10px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse;"
|+ 1×1
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc;"
| colspan=3 style="text-align:center;"|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|-
| style="border-right: 1px dotted #545557;"|[[File:Screw_press.png|32px|center|link=]]
| style="font-size:125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Screw press}}</center>
| style="border-left: 1px dotted #545557;"|<center>{{Template:Floor Plan Screw press}}</center>
|}
|
{| style="width:200px; height:100px; padding:10px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse;"
|+ 1×3
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc;"
| colspan=3 style="text-align:center;"|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|-
| style="border-right: 1px dotted #545557;"|[[File:water_wheel.png|32px|center|link=]]
| style="font-size:125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Water wheel}}</center>
| style="border-left: 1px dotted #545557;line-height:normal;"|<center>{{Template:Floor Plan Water wheel}}</center>
|}
|}
:Any thoughts on the direction and or any and all of its elements? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:16, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

::I kind of like side-by-side, if it fits. If anyone wants to implement a toggle button or tabs, I would ask that that be implemented in a template for now, so that e.g. we could change a toggle button to tabs in a single place if we decide to install an extension to support that. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:14, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

::: I noticed a comment saying that [[impassable tile]] are no longer used in v50, is that true for all constructions? If so, floor plans are no longer needed, making things much easier as we can fit everything in except the 5v5 constructions like trade depot (and even these can be placed one above the other if so desired). If not, any thought on the alternative floor plan design? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:46, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

:::: None of the constructions have blocking tiles any more from my experience playing. I haven't tested siege weaponry with that stuff, but none of the workshops have it, nor does any furniture. (walls and fortifications will of course obstruct movement [[User:AndrielChaoti|AndrielChaoti]] ([[User talk:AndrielChaoti|talk]]) 18:47, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
::::: Ok, I have removed them from v50. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 23:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I have added a basic side by side variant to [[Template:V50 workshop]] and [[Template:Building]] for testing, let us know if there any issues. Few notes:
* The default image naming scheme of <code>workshop-name.png</code> will likely conflict with existing images here or on commons, maybe another naming scheme should be used like <code>v50 workshop-name.png</code> as it is with ascii pictures.
* There is inconsistency in image size. If you want to use large zoomed images then toggle is best, otherwise they need to be all in native size (96px for 3x3).
* In the current version the code roughly centers the images and if there is a big image like with [[Siege workshop]] it drops to a new line --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 23:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

How about combining shortcut keys and the new menu icons:
<div style="color:white; font-size: large; text-shadow: -1px -1px 0 #000, 1px -1px 0 #000, -1px 1px 0 #000, 1px 1px 0 #000;">[[File:Ui b.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:3px;">b</div>[[File:Ui bo.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:3px;">o</div>[[File:Ui bol.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:3px;">l</div>[[File:Ui boll.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:3px;">l</div></div>
--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 02:24, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

:I worry that this is difficult to read (I read it as "boil" at first). I would rather use something like {{tl|k}} with a known background. What about something like this? [[File:Ui boll.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:0px;">{{k|l}}</div> or, alternatively, using flexbox without any overlap: [[File:Ui boll.png]]{{k|l}} —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:37, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
:: Same, but that is the best I came up with. We can use the key or maybe someone can help improve the design. Also 'l' is hard to read even with {{t|key}}.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 03:05, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
:: I added a {{t|Menu icon}} to start things so others can have a go with it. Also any thoughts on the icon naming convention (their short sequence), is there easier/better way? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:36, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Bizarre palette-swapping idea/prototype ====
No idea if this is a good idea, since it takes a bit of time to set up, and there might be some performance issues... and maybe display issues?

But take a look at this:
{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock|palette-name=amber}}

It's way to swap palettes on an image, although the image itself is a table, with each cell representing a pixel. The template itself looks like this:
<code><nowiki>{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock|palette-name=saffron}}</nowiki></code>
Input the pattern and desired palette name.

I've got a larger showcase here: [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwapShowcase]]. Only did a rock pattern so far, but all palettes are implemented.
The major use for this would be on each stone, metal, wood, etc. type's page. The palette could be read directly from the raws. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 03:22, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

:From a technical perspective, my primary concern is indeed performance. Both on the server side and client side, a large number of tables that large (in terms of markup and cell count, that is) tend to be resource-intensive to generate and render. I saw your image-filtering experiments on [[User:Brightgalrs/vector.css]], and while that strikes me as a newer and less-backwards-compatible approach, it would probably be more resource-friendly.
:Is this color adjustment something the game is doing natively? i.e. does this accurately match what the game displays? I bet we could slap together an image-filtering extension (or find an existing one?) that can do this if needed. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:49, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah that's what I suspected. The images the template creates are spot on, checked it against a screenshot I took of some mica rocks in-game. The css stuff is unfortunately totally incorrect, was cool to learn about it though, so not a complete waste of my time :p. The premium, in-game graphics are true sprites, basically patterns of indexed colors. Each of the in-game colors (which are significantly expanded over the 16 ascii colors, there's 116/117) there is a palette defined in "\Dwarf Fortress\data\vanilla\vanilla_descriptors_graphics\graphics\images\palettes.png". Each indexed color of the sprite is swapped for the corresponding color in the palette. Because of that, the css stuff doesn't work since it's doing the hue/saturation/brightness changes to the entire sprite.
::I've looked into an existing mediawiki extension, couldn't find anything. One thing I did't really look at is some type of lua script/module that would basically emulate what the game is doing. So some function that takes in the base image as well as the desired palette, and based on that finds and replaces each color. No idea what mediawiki's capabilities are on that front. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 05:31, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
:::We do have Scribunto installed now, so it's totally possible to do something in Lua too - forgot about that. I can add you to the group that grants access to edit the Module namespace if you want to give that a shot. If we use an extension, we'd probably need a custom one, similar to DFDiagram (or perhaps DFDiagram could be extended - it's in dire need of a rewrite anyway). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:43, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::::I asked around on the mediawiki irc, I think scribunto/lua is a deadend, at least for taking an uploaded image and doing stuff to it with a lua script. However I did come up with this even more bizarre solution, using block elements. [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwapShowcase2]], maybe less resource intensive? Definitely displays a lot worse though, probably unusable.
::::{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock2|palette-name=saffron}}
::::I dunno, maybe none of this is worth it and we should just write some external program to put all the images together offline, and then just mass upload. It wouldn't be ''that'' many... [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 06:37, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

====Is there an easy way to just paste images from the clipboard?====

I use KDE spectacle to take screenshots straight to the clipboard (after cropping) -- is there an easy way to just paste (and auto-upload) an image into an article? It would make it a lot easier to contribute images. [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 23:35, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Unfortunately there is not. I would be open to a MediaWiki extension to support this if someone finds one. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:32, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:: Looks like this could do it, but I haven't used it before: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SimpleBatchUpload [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 19:41, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

====Standards for adding graphical version screenshots and images====

Hello, new user looking into adding imagery from the new version. Is there a standard for quality of new screenshots or images? I noticed that at a certain zoom level (2 zooms in from the furthest zoomed-out view), the graphics appear crisp and 1:1 pixel scaled, and I would propose that all images be taken at this scale whenever possible. If they need to be displayed larger, they should be nearest neighbor scaled in a photo editing program at 100% increments (Microsoft Paint will do this if you first select the image rather than directly scaling the whole canvas). I would also propose that images should be cropped to conform to the 32x32 pixel grid when possible, though this could be problematic with so many new graphical elements exceeding the bounds of their tiles. I would say the best practice for capturing artwork for items, furniture etc. ought to be done in a 3x3 open area to avoid shadows from nearby walls, or else extracted from the raw files (if this doesn't run afoul of being able to re-create the graphical version using those assets).

I know that perfect is the enemy of good, and any documentation is better than none, but just thought I'd ask about this, and see if/where something like this ought to be posted. [[User:Unclesporky|Unclesporky]] ([[User talk:Unclesporky|talk]]) 13:58, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
:It has been stated in [[Template:V50 workshop]] that <q>screenshots should be at the "native" resolution</q> but someone could edit the [[Screenshot]] page for best practice for the steam version. Or post some examples in [[Talk:Screenshot]] to find out what is best? --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 14:21, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

=== Hotkeys/Menu navigation ===
Most key bindings and menus have changed. Should the article reflect a) only the old version, b) only the GUI version or c) both? For example, [[Bridge|bridges]] used to be built via {{k|b}} -> {{k|g}}, but now it's in Place strucutures {{k|b}} -> Constructions {{k|n}} -> Bridge {{k|b}}. What should be written in the article? Currently, it's {{k|b}} -> {{k|g}}. I ''think'' it should be only b), but I am not sure if there will be differences regarding hotkeys or menus between the premium version and the free version and then, c) would be the most appropriate option. --[[User:Prometherus|Prometherus]] ([[User talk:Prometherus|talk]]) 10:16, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

: Not sure. I wish the classic release soon --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 16:45, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:: Are you Toady's herald? Looks like it was just released! [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:18, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:: And our questions are answered, the old hotkeys seem to have been thrown out. Part of me is disappointed (useless muscle memory) but also relieved (unified UI for both versions is good in general and for the wiki). [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:25, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: According to info, in a sort of 'demo version' at that. I'll wait a little while longer, for myself.[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 18:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::::It's unlikely that keybindings in it will change significantly. My vote is that we should include information for both premium and classic, everywhere. Hopefully the keybindings are not different between versions. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:26, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Shouldn't it be based on the 50 or what verion the article is written for? [[User:Dominick|Dominick]] [[User_talk:dominick|(TALK)]] 18:42, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:::: The keybindings seem to be consistent between versions, (haven't checked exhausitvely, but since the menu layout is the same I think it is a good assumption). Should also keep in mind/consider that not all actions have keybindings. An option would be write 'Click on the <Example Text> icon or press {{k|E}}' [[User:Koos|Koos]] ([[User talk:Koos|talk]]) 23:14, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

=== Removed features & concepts ===

Since they're removed concepts, I've set [[Room]] to be a redirect for [[DF2014:Room]] and created [[Template:Activity zones]] for the nav bar bedrooms, etc, and made the necessary changes to [[Bedroom]] for it. Is this the correct approach, before I go on much further? (also a note, if it is, then [[Template:v50_rooms]] probably needs to be deleted) I also imagine that considering the number of changes in the interface, that things like [[Adventure mode]] and related pages might best be truncated to "not in 50.03" and when it does make it across, being more deliberately brought over in pieces? [[User:HawkOwl|HawkOwl]] ([[User talk:HawkOwl|talk]]) 06:23, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:Usually it is marked with [[Template:Removed_feature]]. For example: [[Dipscript]] or [[Party]]. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:45, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:: Ah, that's fair. Should that be mentioned in [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Versions#Redirects]]? [[User:HawkOwl|HawkOwl]] ([[User talk:HawkOwl|talk]]) 10:03, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:::I think the redirect policy mostly had in mind things that were removed a ''long'' time ago, like [[Tax collector]] and [[Economy]] (and the latter actually has a stub page as well). I guess we could clarify. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:34, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: The "current" redirects also cause the version box to incorrectly show that the current version has a page - e.g. [[23a:Cave_river]] shows a v50.04 version, but it's just a redirect back to that version. Similarly, what should happen to redirects like [[Clothes maker]], where a concept has evolved? It currently goes to [[23a:Clothes maker]] - that's correct if the user is trying to look up a very old concept, but if a new user is looking for "how to make clothes", they should be directed to [[Clothier]]. --[[User:Danny252|Danny252]] ([[User talk:Danny252|talk]]) 12:16, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: One should be careful with cv redirects. Most that were recently adjusted were unused plural forms (that should probably be deleted) but few like [[Crown]] needed that for backward compatibility. Removing the [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&type=revision&diff=279966&oldid=219482 cv part] means the the link on [[v0.31:Tilesets]] is now broken. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 22:30, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::If [[v0.31:Tilesets]] is about v0.31, it should not be using "main:" in its links - ''all'' of those links are going to pages about v50, not v0.31, regardless of whether the target is a redirect or not. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:37, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::: You right, I removed it. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 17:55, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Crown cv redir issue is now fixed, I believe. As goes with such cases where one can simply revert the troublesome edit, unless I've mistepped, myself? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 23:52, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
:Both [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&diff=prev&oldid=280026] and [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&diff=prev&oldid=279966] should not have had any effect, because "cv" is an alias to the main namespace now, just like "main". Proof: [[Crown]], [[cv:Crown]], [[main:Crown]]. It's possible caching is coming into play here, although I purged the redirect cache after making that alias change earlier this month... —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:02, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

I think there have been some changes not captured, but as a newb, I'm afraid to edit the page(s). A good example is Strawberry. I'm playing the Steam version right now and Strawberry plants are "not relevant to brewing" in Labor > kitchen > veg / fruit / leaves. Unless I'm mistaken and need to process them? Another example is the trade caravan = it seems the 3 square pathing no longer happens; it's just yak(s). 12:31, 28 December 2022 (UTC) 12:29, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
:Strawberries should be brewable according to the Raws.
:Trade wagons has been modified in v50. The first wagons will arrive at the same time your fort is becoming a barony. Until then, it's only pack animals and stairs are indeed fine. The [[Trading]] page needs a huge rework anyway... I'll try to do that next week. --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 13:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

<s>As far as I can tell, none of the workshop buildings in v50 have blocking tiles any more. There's a comment to the like in data/vanilla/vanilla_buildings/objects/building_custom.txt that says this "[BLOCK:1:0:0:0] workbenches no longer block". Hesitant to update that template as I'm not sure if it's referenced for all of the old versions too. </s> [[User:AndrielChaoti|AndrielChaoti]] ([[User talk:AndrielChaoti|talk]]) 05:54, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
: A new template has been created: {{tl|V50 workshop}} --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 13:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
::Thanks! In general, I would like to delegate the switching responsibility to the template (like how {{tl|creaturelookup/0}} works), but in cases where the parameters diverge significantly like with workshops, it could make sense to make an entirely new template. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:40, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

=== creature infobox prototype (moved) ===

Check it out, I made a temporary template and added it to the [[cow]]s page. Now it shows the sprites (but not the zombified versions yet). I wanted to show everyone a prototype of what v50 creature infoboxes should look like. Or at least something similar to it. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:11, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
:Hi, I'm new to editing wikis but I have done a bit of work with sprite sheets and I've been going through the DF data files to find the different graphics hoping to help with the animal pages. I've thrown together a template with grass and a few nature sprites (plants, a tree, and a rock) for size reference but I'm unsure how large the 'display' tiles in the middle of the template should be to suit all animals. I can see in the sprite sheets that some land animals have an adult and child sprite, so two tiles. Others have a male, female, and child, but after seeing you include the zombie cows I'm unsure if I should make it twice the size to add them too. Alternatively, I could grab some tiles from the haunted biomes for the zombie animals and make a separate template for a side-by-side comparison. Either way, let me know if this helps. I'd like to help with other graphics too as we add the premium tilesets but the animals seemed the easiest to tackle with me being new to wiki editing. ~~[[User:UristTheSeventh|UristTheSeventh]]
::@Zippy, I am a bit perplexed about the purple cows. Why do we need a zombified version of creatures on every page?
::@UristTheSeventh, we can use all the help. Maybe post an example, so that we can have something to compare and contrast.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 11:49, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

=== When do we remove the migration note on specific pages? ===

At what point can we remove the "this page was auto migrated from v47" warning? There are a bunch of small pages that are more or less accurate, if I've reviewed them, can I go ahead and remove the warning? [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 23:33, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Yes, feel free to remove it if you think all content is accurate. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

=== Any info on fixing "creature description not found?" ===

I see this issue on most creature pages, it seems to be due to a lookup that's not currently functioning? Cows interestingly doesn't have this issue but I couldn't figure out how to recreate whatever fix it's editor did. --[[User:Yallendallis|Yallendallis]] ([[User talk:Yallendallis|talk]]) 00:22, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
:That is the missing raws issue described above. Cow was fixed by the addition of [[cow/raw]]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:28, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
::Ah makes sense, not fully used to the language of wikis yet so I read over it while looking. To put this bit of questioning to rest for any future readers, is it correct that it's fine to update any raws manually, though it will be done automatically at some point? --[[User:Yallendallis|Yallendallis]] ([[User talk:Yallendallis|talk]]) 07:48, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

=== Adventurer Mode related sections ===

The topic has already been discussed [[#Removed features & concepts|above]], but I don't see a clear line on what to do with article sections that mention Adventurer Mode. Like for example in [[Butcher#Adventurer_mode|Butcher]].

'''a) Truncate''' or '''b) leave in place with a mention''' that the mode is not yet present IG but will be added in a future update?

Personally I think option b) is better, because I think it's silly to undo some work just to reintroduce it a few weeks later, with the necessary corrections. Even if a copy/paste of a previous version takes ~15 seconds, considering the number of articles that need to be corrected, it would be a bit of a waste of time.

== Toggleable image ==

Any objections/comments to using this template for now for toggling between classic and premium images? I'd probably rename it to "Template:Premium-classic thumb image". I'm sure someone can come up with a better UI eventually, but should be easy to migrate at that point. I also think we should use the same customtoggle class for this and for the infobox. [[User:NiftyManiac|NiftyManiac]] ([[User talk:NiftyManiac|talk]]) 23:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

{{User:NiftyManiac/Sandbox/TemplateDualImage|
premium=File:Quickstart-finder.png|
classic=File:Quickstart-finder-partial.png
}}

{{User:NiftyManiac/Sandbox/TemplateDualImage|
premium=File:Quickstart-finder.png|
classic=File:Quickstart-finder-partial.png|
caption=My caption|
width=100px
}}

:This looks nice to me! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:30, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

: Good initiative. From the top of my head:
:* I suggest using a shorthand, no one wants to type 'Premium-classic thumb image'.
:* If we end up using toggle for infoboxes (not sure where we headed there), then I agree definitely same custom toggle class should be used for all, thus allowing to switch premium-classic view on the whole page at a click.
:* The button part on a separate row isn't pretty, creating a lot of dead space that can be used by the text. Are we set on the label 'toggle ascii'? Classic isn't Ascii per se, maybe we can use a 'toggle' with a tooltip {{tooltip|for example|does bla bla bla}}, or maybe we can get rid of the text and have a smaller icon button ([[User:Jan/sandbox#Metal_example|two examples]]).
: I hope that helps. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 11:21, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

:: I added [[Template:Dual image]] with some of your suggestions. Agree that it's not super pretty, feel free to try something different.

::* I put the toggle in the caption mostly because I gave up on trying to make a more sophisticated replacement for the default thumb image behavior, I'm sure someone with better wiki-fu could put together something more intelligent.
::* I cut the text down to just "Toggle"; I think the best solution would be a small graphic showing the old and new dwarf icons with arrows between them. [[User:NiftyManiac|NiftyManiac]] ([[User talk:NiftyManiac|talk]]) 19:21, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

{{Dual image|
premium=File:DFwiki5by53by3farm.png|
classic=File:Quickstart_layout_3.png|
width=100px|
caption=A 5x5 room with a 3x3 farm plot
}}
::: I updated the layout, now it should look just like a regular image thumb. I didn't had time to test it, if it doesn't work for you or you don't like it just revert the last change. cheers. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 21:46, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
::::I don't know which part of this talk page to put this, but I added the ability to add icons to the v50 workshops template. Leaving the icon part blank will not break the template in any way. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 09:47, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Versions

2023-01-03T14:21:23Z

Halavus: /* Standards for adding graphical version screenshots and images */

{{archive|
# [[DF Talk:Versions/Archive 1|Page 1]]}}

== Version 0.31.19 starts a new DF generation? ==

My reading of Toady's comments on the release of 0.31.19 is that it came out basically because he felt it would take too long to get DF all the way to 0.32. With the ore changes, the sitefinder changes, the addition of grazing and several different industries, there's a lot of changes between 31.18 and 31.19. So I'm thinking it might be a good idea to call it the first release of DF2011 - and what we refer to as "DF2010" would then become 0.31.18.

Thoughts? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:06, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

==Revisiting Redirects==

I wasn't around when the redirect policy was created, and I'm having trouble understanding the rationale. The example claims that linking [[Main:Cheese]] to [[cv:Cheese maker]] is problematic...but mainspace only ever redirects to the current version. If the best target in the current version is cheese maker, why not link to it directly? (It's not, at least for Cheese, since [[DF2012:Cheese]] exists now.) The explanation seems to be claiming that 40d articles that link to Cheese will follow the Mainspace link--but that hasn't been the case for a long while now. Articles in 40d automatically link against other articles in 40d, so that version remains internally consistent no matter where mainspace links to in the current version. For a current example, what do we gain by linking [[Main:Mead]] to [[cv:Mead]] and linking [[DF2012:Mead]] to [[DF2012:Alcohol]]?

If this really is just an outdated procedure, I recommend we drop the mummery and allow mainspace to link to cv:(best target). Double redirects ''may'' work (sometimes, but [[Main:Mead]] demonstrates a common problem where automatic redirection fails), but if they are unnecessary I think they should be avoided, partly because of problems like [[Main:Mead]] and partly because of the effort required to protect double redirects from users who believe they are problematic.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:16, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

:I was just thinking that. I'm currently attempting to write a basic extension to eliminate the need for mainspace redirects entirely, although Mediawiki's class structure may make this more difficult than I had hoped (the only method I've found for resolving redirects takes the ''article text'' instead of a title, e.g. "#REDIRECT ..."). I do agree that the current situation with redirects isn't ideal, so I'm hoping this will work better (once I get it to work). --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:42, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Okay, that wasn't quite as clear as I meant it to be. In general, I think this is a tricky situation. Mediawiki wasn't designed to have five content namespaces, and certainly not chains of redirects between them. The problem that was pointed out in the [[DF:REDIR|policy]] is the fact that with:
Main:Foo -> cv:Bar
pages in the cv: namespace can't use [[<nowiki/>foo]], since the namespace links modification causes it to be treated as [[<nowiki/>cv:foo]] instead, which doesn't exist. The current suggested solution is this:
Main:Foo -> cv:Foo -> cv:Bar
This fixes the problem of [[<nowiki/>foo]] not working on cv pages, but creates issues with double redirects not always working. Another solution, which is more intuitive to new editors, is:
Main:Foo -> cv:Bar
cv:Foo -> cv:Bar
Both require creating two redirects. The first method has the advantage of ''ensuring'' that the cv redirect exists (otherwise, main:foo would be a redlink), while the second has the advantage of working more reliably in a couple cases.

What I'm trying to do is make main:Foo "jump" to cv:Foo when cv:foo exists, ''even if main:foo doesn't exist'' (basically it would treat all mainspace pages as redirects to cv pages, but only if the cv page exists and not the mainspace page). I had main:Bar jumping to cv:Bar fine, but if cv:Foo redirected to cv:Bar, accessing main:Foo would mysteriously stop at cv:Foo even if I increased the redirect limit. What I'm trying to do now is follow the redirects internally, without relying on Mediawiki to do it automatically - unfortunately, that has proved to be harder than I had hoped (and I sent my web server into an infinite loop while trying). I will try to work on this some more when I get a chance, although I'm not sure when that'll be yet :(. For now, feel free to fix broken double mainspace redirects as necessary, as long as redirects in the DF2012 namespace stay pointing to the right page (and new mainspace redirects get added in the DF2012 namespace too). --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:21, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

:You're treating cv like a namespace--it's not. It is simply shorthand for "fill in the current version here". [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Briess&diff=182404&oldid=181281 As I discovered a long time ago on a server not far away], linking from Main:Foo to cv:Foo tends to break redirection chains. If, instead of linking to cv:Foo, you link to DF2012:Foo, it might just work. It would, of course, be better if your patch could evaluate cv itself, but even if you have to hardcode the current version it's a single point of maintenance that requires update very infrequently. (For that matter, we could probably dispense with the cv hack entirely and just have a bot update mainspace links from DF2012 to DF201X when we switch to a new version.)--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:05, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
::I know cv isn't a namespace - I was just trying to avoid future confusion when the DF2012 namespace changes. It's interesting that changing "cv" to "DF2012" fixes some broken redirects, although I've found that simply making an edit to a broken redirect can usually fix it as well. I've actually had the most problems with double redirects when the second one (in the DF2012 namespace) doesn't use the DF2012 prefix (e.g. main:Foo containing <nowiki>[[cv:Foo]] and DF2012:Foo containing [[Bar]]</nowiki>). I'd rather keep the cv alias even if it isn't necessary for mainspace redirects when I get the patch to work, since it makes it easier to refer to the current version of the page (for example, several MDF articles contain links to a vanilla page for things that don't change in the mod).
::Also, using aliases like "cv" is supported by Mediawiki; in fact, several WMF wikis use them (for example, "[[wikipedia:WP:Redirects|WP:Redirects]]" on Wikipedia). It's quite likely that Mediawiki isn't processing double redirects using aliases correctly, though, since that's uncommon on most wikis. --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:35, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

In light of the lack of support for the current redirect policy, I propose we replace the current redirect section with:

:Mainspace article pages should use the cv: alias when redirecting to a versioned page, which will automatically update the link when a new version is released. For example, page "Main:Foo" should redirect to page "cv:Bar" (where "Bar" is the page that best describes the topic Foo in the current version).

:Pages in mainspace should only redirect to an older versioned page if that content no longer exists in the current version of the game (e.g. [[Cave river]], [[Chunk]]). In these cases the cv: alias cannot be used.

:Pages inside a versioned namespace should not use the cv: alias. Instead, they should redirect to the best page within that versioned namespace (e.g. [[DF2012:Dodging]], [[v0.31:Drink]]).

:Due to limitations of the wiki software, double redirects should be avoided if possible. When fixing double redirects in mainspace, please make sure to use the cv: alias as appropriate.

If no one objects, I will make this change in a few days.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:21, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

:Okay with me. It may be worth mentioning that double redirects only really need to be changed when they don't work (since changing a lot of redirects that work isn't necessary), but I think it's clearer and more relevant than the current policy. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:26, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Done.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:55, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

I was finally able to get my extension to work after being motivated by one too many malfunctioning redirects. It now causes nonexistent pages in the main namespace to behave exactly like redirects to their DF2012 counterparts (when linked to, accessed directly, and transcluded). Double redirects also work (up to 100, in fact, although that was a temporary safety measure that I'll probably change). This means we'll be able to safely get rid of all mainspace redirects (redirects that redirect to something other than "cv" will still function if not deleted). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:20, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
:What about articles which don't exist in the current version but do exist in older versions? Will those still need mainspace redirects, or will your extension be able to automatically redirect them to v0.31/40d/23a? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 01:29, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
::It ignores all mainspace pages that actually have content, including redirects, so pages like [[masons guild]] won't be affected (unless deleted). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:47, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Done and deployed. [[Cat]] is still treated as a redirect, even though I just deleted it (try clicking on the "redirected from" link). Pages that exist are ignored, so [[Masons guild]] and [[History of Dwarf Fortress]] still function normally (as a redirect to a 23a page and a non-redirect, respectively). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm sending around a bot right now to delete all redirects of the format "foo -> cv:foo" (a surprising number don't fit this format, so I'm leaving them alone for now). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:43, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

:I'm confused. Do we use double redirects or not? Is there a single place we define our linking policy (including redirects), and is it updated?
:I had trouble linking to [[Consolidated_development]] in [[v0.34:Dragon]]. It kept pointing to v0.34:Consolidated_development, which does not exist. I ended up linking to Main:Consolidated_development to make it work. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] ([[User talk:Nahno|talk]]) 10:18, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

::That's a separate problem altogether - links in the versioned namespaces (v0.34, v0.31, 40d, 23a) automatically link to pages within their namespace. I may be able to set up a fallback to mainspace once I'm able to deploy again, but for now the "main:" alias is the intended solution. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 11:36, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

== Google often directs people to the 0.31 page ==

I've noticed a couple of times that finding a wiki page from an external search will often drop me onto a page from an older version. Is it possible to mitigate this somehow for new players? I could imagine something like redirecting old:Bar -> cv:Bar unless the user has come from old:Foo; no idea if that would actually work though. [[User:PeridexisErrant|PeridexisErrant]] ([[User talk:PeridexisErrant|talk]]) 11:48, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

:As a temporary solution, I could write a script that displays a banner of some kind if the user came from an external site. I'll ask Briess if he can do anything on the server level to increase the weighting of the current version's pages. (Obviously there are situations where people are looking for old pages, like [[23a:dungeon master]], so we don't want to disable indexing entirely on old pages.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:03, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

== DF2014? ==

As Toady [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ draws closer to a new release], it might be worthwhile to discuss the addition of a new version to the wiki. The upcoming release covers two years of changes and introduces a number of new plants, foods, drinks, multi-tile trees, climbing, jumping, etc., so it is likely to have significant changes from the current DF2012. To avoid having people start new pages (and lose all the effort spent refining the prior version's page), I think it would be best to have a bot automatically copy over the DF2012 pages as a starting point for DF2014. I would suggest that these copied pages include a noticebox template mentioning that the content may be outdated, so that we can easily track which pages have been reviewed. I think either the {{tl|version check}} or {{tl|old}} template would work. --[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:43, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

:This is what [[User:QuietBot]] did after the 0.34 release, so it's certainly possible to use the same script to migrate to DF2014. I would like a way of tagging migrated pages, since inaccuracies in some pages went unnoticed for months after they were migrated. Since {{tl|old}} is already in use, {{tl|version check}} may be a better solution (it can be reworded slightly, or we can make a separate template for DF2014 migration). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:23, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
:Made [[Template:DF2014 migrated]] as an example. Any thoughts? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:32, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

== Redirects inconsistency ==

Following a redirect is supposed to be exactly the same as going straight to the page it redirects to, but this actually isn't the case:
* Go to [[Seeds]] and you get [[v0.34:Seed]] (outdated)
* Go to http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Seeds&redirect=no and click on the link and you get to [[DF2014:Seed]] (current)
So if you search for "seed", the top result is the DF2014 version. But search for "seeds" and you get the redirect, which sends you to the outdated page instead. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 23:22, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

While I'm talking about redirects, it seems redirects to sections don't work: see [[DF2014:How do I manage my seeds and crops]]. I know MediaWiki is capable of this trick because Wikipedia does it. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 23:32, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

:I have absolutely no idea why [[seeds]] redirects to a v0.34 page - it could be a Mediawiki bug. The section links issue is due to a known issue in the redirect extension we use, which has yet to be fixed. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:01, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
:It looks like deleting both [[Seeds]] and [[DF2014:Seeds]] fixed things (by allowing AutoRedirect to handle the redirects instead). Feel free to tag any others with {{tl|bad redirect}}. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:03, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
::It gets stranger. [[Vial]] redirects explicitly to [[cv:Flask]] which displays (when you look at it with &redirect=no) as [[DF2014:Flask]], but still goes to the v0.34 version. It seems redirects interpret the cv: pseudo-namespace (or whatever it's called) in an outdated way. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 18:08, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
::I've added a note to this page about this issue. If it gets resolved, the note should be removed. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 21:04, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

==Reorganizing versions==

The internet deals with moved content... poorly. Google is still linking to v0.34 pages more than a year after the switch to "DF2014", and even the wiki software still has cached links pointing to the old version pages.

I propose reorganizing versions on the wiki to avoid moving content whenever possible. Instead of having a temporary "current version" namespace that changes occasionally, all the current information gets promoted to the Main namespace. When the next version split occurs, the Main articles as of a certain revision number can be copied to the newly-created permanent "old version" namespace, while all the current information remains in Main. This not only fixes the link rot issue, but it has a few other benefits as well: fewer administrative tasks, no lockdown (a historical version of the Main pages can be copied at any point, even if the Main articles are already modified for the new version), almost all the article history is maintained in the Main article (instead of being spread unevenly across multiple versions), no "temporary" namespaces are needed, fewer problematic long redirect chains, and hopefully less user confusion (since Main gets priority in search results, etc.).

As an example, today we would not have a DF2014 namespace (which is good because "temporary" namespaces historically disappear anyway). If you ran a search for [[seed]] you'd end up at Main:seed, which would have all the current information on seeds. The version box at the top of the page would still link to the older versions of the seed article. When a new version is released, an admin would choose a revision number and copy the Main:seed article as it exists at that revision number to v0.40:seed. That's it. One historical copy that needs little to no new editing, and zero redirections/moves.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:02, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

:Makes sense to me. It would involve a lot of work, though (e.g. fixing templates and categories to account for the current version being in mainspace), although that should be doable thanks to {{tl|category}}, {{tl|version switch}}, etc.. A bot could be set up to copy revisions from before a release date as well, which would be more difficult (and maybe slower) than a direct copy, but not severely. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:24, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

:Actually, there are a few issues with that, namely that there wouldn't be an easy way to distinguish between versioned and non-versioned mainspace pages. There are ways to resolve Google search priority (we can exclude pages from older versions from search engine results if there are newer versions of those pages available, for example). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:47, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::There aren't very many non-versioned mainspace pages, and determining if a page is versioned is as simple as looking for the version template and/or categories added by the version template (e.g. copy [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:Current this category] instead of Main:*). The problem with "suggesting" newer pages to Google is that they obviously aren't crawling our wiki regularly (if they were, the fact that the mainspace redirects point to new pages would automatically be picked up). Even if your Google hints worked they wouldn't do anything for all the other broken links out on the 'net.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:35, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::: Google actually crawls the wiki constantly - we probably get crawl hits from google for a continuous block of 2-3 hours per day, each and every day. Why they are slow to update is beyond me though. I can't remember why we didn't do this initially, but there was a technical limitation involved if I remember correctly. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] ([[User talk:Briess|talk]]) 22:05, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::: There are <meta> tags that can be used to hide pages from search results (for search engines that recognize them, that is). Searching for {{tl|av}} or [[:Category:Current]] might work, although we'd have to make sure all of the DF2014 pages include that (some pages don't, particularly some disambiguation pages, although all of them should). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:53, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

:Is there a particular reason main and current are separate to begin with?—[[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 00:17, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

::It's mostly intended to distinguish between versioned and non-versioned pages and make version-related templates simpler to work with, since every versioned page has a namespace. I wasn't active here in 2010 when this system was created, so Briess and Emi would know more.
::Another issue I just thought of with Loci's suggestion is categories - currently, categories like [[:Category:Animals]] are used to organize the versioned sub-categories. Sure, we can change {{tl|Category}} to categorize mainspace pages in [[:Category:v0.40:Animals]] or [[:Category:DF2014:Animals]], but that would be less straightforward because there wouldn't be a namespace with that name (until pages are migrated when a newer major version is released). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:05, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

:Moving current pages to the main namespace sounds like a great idea. -[[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] ([[User talk:Jecowa|talk]]) 20:47, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Another thought: dealing with migrating redirects could be difficult with this proposal - specifically, determining which redirects should be migrated to a versioned namespace. Redirects can't contain {{tl|av}}, at least not before ``#REDIRECT``. I ''think'' it would be possible to copy pages in two stages, though - all non-redirects first, then all redirects whose targets were also copied. Thoughts? Anything I'm missing? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:41, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Some subpages (particularly /raw and /Edit notice) also deliberately lack {{tl|av}}, although those shouldn't be too hard to handle. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:35, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

:Redirect pages (and all other edge cases I've looked at) can be included in categories (like [[:Category:Current]]) to determine whether or not they should be copied into an archival version. But if the redirects are "properly qualified" then they can all be copied over blindly. Mainspace redirects pointing to versioned information should use a blank namespace (which will be automatically constrained to the archival namespace); mainspace redirects pointing to unversioned information should use an explicit "Main" (which will automatically link back to the unversioned page). Then, when [[[[Toady]]]] gets copied to [[[[v0.4x:Toady]]]] it will point back to [[[[Main:Toady One]]]]. Meanwhile, [[[[Beer]]]], copied to [[[[v0.4x:Beer]]]], will properly point to [[[[v0.4x:Alcohol]]]].--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:00, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

::I think qualifying redirects is the best solution here - categorizing redirects manually is another possible source of errors, since categories (or a lack thereof) would only be visible on the redirect page itself, and [[:Category:Current]] is a hidden category. Copying over mainspace redirects into versioned namespaces would also resolve some issues that have come up due to those not reliably existing currently. I should be able to set up a bot script to add "main:" to current mainspace redirects (and it shouldn't break anything, since those redirects go to other mainspace pages anyway). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:57, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

(Note: I wrote all of this without noticing the previous discussion above.) I was wondering, when the wiki creates a new namespace for a major release again, if it is possible to ''not'' create a namespace for the next current version (e.g. "DF202x") and instead have the mainspace articles (which are currently redirects) become the new cv and move the content there. Therefore, [[cv:Cat]] would just be "[[Cat]]" (or [[Main:Cat]]).

Certain namespace-related templates like [[Template:Ns/0]] would need to be changed, though nothing significant as far as I know. For most cases, any "DF2014" would be replaced with "Main" or even blank. There's also multiple extensions handling the current namespace system and they may need to be modified too, though I'm not sure if or how much. I'm guessing based on the discussions above that it will change stuff up.

My reason is the current namespace is increasingly becoming more anachronistic. "DF2014" could be misinterpreted as "this page is about the 2014 version of the game" or "this page was last updated in 2014", which I've seen a few people in forums mention. Granted that [[Template:Av]] is on the top of very article, I still think the namespace is inconsistent with the recentness of the article. But how is this related to what I'm asking for? Let's say we continue the current system: if we happen to do a new namespace change this year and create DF2020, the next major release (after graphics/UI) will be mythgen, which is estimated to take several years to develop (the Big Wait), and so the anachronism will start over again. The proposed way will prevent this from occurring for the next major release and every release thereafter.

I think the confusion with having a namespace that becomes old-fashioned overtime supersedes the confusion with not marking current versioned articles with a namespace. Most users just search "Cat" on the search bar and naturally expect to get information about the latest release of DF. So if users go a page that's just titled "Cat", they won't expect outdated info about cats from a previous release. That's how the current system works anyways. We'll be skipping the two-step process that we have now. It'll make several wiki tasks much simpler as well. Editors can create new articles for current versions without remembering to add a namespace. It'll fix any existing issues with (double) redirects; instead of [[Main:Kitten]] redirecting to [[cv:Kitten]], which goes to [[DF2014:Kitten]], which then redirects to [[DF2014:Cat]], [[Main:Kitten]] would just redirect to [[Main:Cat]]. And the cv: alias will no longer be necessary since "cv:" = "Main:" and will be forever.

There's no need to differentiate the current version and previous versions with a namespace for the current version is what I'm saying. Articles of previous versions will retain their respective namespaces. Users will still type "40d:Cat" to go to the 40d version of the article, but if they want the current version, they'll just type "Cat" (like now). The mainspace containing the "live" version of an article is natural and would create no uncertainty when browsing the wiki. And it would simplify the wiki somewhat and future-proof this anachronism problem. As a bonus, this change will also prevent web search engines from showing previous version pages when typing "DF cat" or something. (This isn't happening right now as DF2014 has been the current namespace for ~6 years, but it'll happen again when everything moves to a new namespace.)

This is the gist of it, and I may have ignored most of the problems with this proposal. I have personally wished for the whole version namespacing be made less complicated and have been seeking for a solution, and I feel like this is the best way to go about in the future. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:27, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

:<s>Whoops, looks like Loci already proposed this exact thing long ago. I definitely missed that discussion and should have checked first. My apologies. I'll move my text to that section and remove this one. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:36, 14 August 2020 (UTC)</s> Done. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:40, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

:The main issue I have with that is that putting pages about the current version in a namespace also differentiates between those pages and pages not about ''any'' version (for example, [[Toady One]] does not need a 40d or v0.34 page). Yes, we can use {{tl|av}} to mark versioned pages, but people often forget to add that to new pages. The current system also allows determining whether a page is versioned or not from its title, which makes migrations a lot faster. Relying on {{tl|av}} would require either reading the content of every page (which would slow scripts down significantly) or cross-checking with the list of all pages including the template (feasible, but a bit more complicated, and still susceptible to missing templates). I suppose that manually fixing and migrating pages missing {{tl|av}} later wouldn't be too much work, though.
:I am definitely in favor of changing "DF2014" (or a new namespace) to "Current", though. I was in favor of "DF2014" in 2014, but I don't think it makes sense anymore, and "Current" seemed to be a popular alternative in both the DF2012 and DF2014 discussions on the matter. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:02, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

== Weird redirect behaviour ==

[[Pump stack]] redirects to [[cv:Screw pump#Pump stack]]. If you look at the redirect itself it says it redirects to DF2014 namespace, which is correct. But if you actually follow the redirect, it goes to v0.34 namespace. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 16:10, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
:Yeah, that's part of the issue described in the above section (the wiki caching part, not on Google's end.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:00, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

== v50 organization ==

Some wiki admins have had a talk on Discord and decided that the most sustainable path forward is to put content for all future versions of DF in the main namespace. We will be working on a bot to do this in the next few days. Feel free to chime in with suggestions here. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:56, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

:Is it maybe possible to do backwards-namespacing? Like we have a "Main" namespace, which people are free to update, and whenever there's a new version of DF the "Main" namespace is copied into a namespace for the then old version, much like how you'd branch a stable branch from a development branch when working with a git-project? [[User:Therahedwig|Therahedwig]] ([[User talk:Therahedwig|talk]]) 23:13, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

::Yeah, we could do that if we decide to. We were talking about doing that for v50, actually, and might still do something similar to preserve edit history if it doesn't end up being too hard to automate. Our hope is that we will not introduce new namespaces for v50 -> v5x, unless there is a serious breaking change (and hopefully there isn't one). But if we change our mind, one advantage of the type of migration you mentioned is that it can be done retroactively - we can copy historical revisions that were current at the time of the release, and would only lose some typo fixes made after the release that apply to earlier versions as well. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:11, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

ETA is < 24 hours. Doing some final checks on a migration script. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 07:08, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

: We should really have a task list as there are many things that change and need updating. Including but not limited to:
:* Most templates that used the previous namespace convention broke, including nav templates.
:* Many game files changed locations and their pages need to be updated.
:* Raws need to be updated.
:* Various features added, changed, removed.
:* UI has been changed -- though I am more inclined to wait for classic release to avoid extra work --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 06:56, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

"''Raws need to be updated.''" Including applying text wraparound where necessary, I suppose - more than a few of them have proven to be that special kind of...''difficult'' to navigate otherwise, shall we say? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:There is already a task list in the [[#v50 migration|section below]] that includes templates and raws, with an explanation. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

== v50 migration ==

The initial migration script is done. New content is in the '''main''' namespace, e.g. [[Cat]]. Old content is still at [[DF2014:Cat]]. History was migrated to the ''new'' (main namespace) articles.

I know several things are broken still. Please reply if you find any others:
<div style="border-left: 2px solid red">
* <s>Versioned templates haven't been migrated yet (e.g. {{tl|vermin}} on [[Ant]])</s>
** Fixed. Most were migrated by a bot.
* Raws are missing on all pages that use them.
** This also affects sidebars, such as on [[Cat]] and [[Microcline]].
** Update: The DFRawFunctions extension has been upgraded to include v50 raws, using the "v50:" prefix for filenames instead of "DF2014:". I haven't finished a migration script to create the /raw pages themselves, but they can typically be created manually by copying the DF2014 /raw pages and changing "DF2014" to "v50" everywhere. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:20, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
* Some pages where the DF2014 page was a redirect to a main namespace page that contained content were migrated incorrectly.
** In this case, the main namespace page is usually a redirect to itself. This can be fixed by undoing LethosorBot's edit to the main namespace page, then copying the content to the DF2014 page.
** Update: most seem to have been fixed manually - thanks! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
* <s>Some main-namespace talk pages redirect to DF2014 talk pages. Some of these redirects work, and some (usually older ones) do not.</s>
** Fixed with a bot. Some redirects from talk pages to other deleted talk pages are now broken, e.g. [[Talk:Above_ground]] (exists) -> [[Talk:Tile attributes]] (redlink). I am leaving them like that because they redirect to where the talk page should be created, but I'm also fine with people deleting them if they really want to. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
* {{tl|quality}} for new articles is disabled (see below)
* Some links from DF2014 to Main weren't working: e.g. the version selector [[DF2014:Mason's workshop]] was linking to [[DF2014:Main:Mason's workshop]] instead of [[Main:Mason's workshop]]. I'm not sure exactly why, but I fixed it with a change to the NamespaceLinks extension. Let me know if you spot similar broken links. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:19, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
</div>

—[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:54, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:The quality levels of the 50.03 pages seem to be missing. I'm not sure if that's covered under that first point. [[User:Trainzack|Trainzack]] ([[User talk:Trainzack|talk]]) 06:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::If the the [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Quality]] feature can be made to work with namespace scheme change, I suggest to automatically assign the lowest quality rating to all pages, alternately add the {{tl|old}} to all pages. Otherwise there will be a lot of pages that will fall through the cracks. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:12, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::I disabled {{tl|quality}} in the main namespace because it would require some rework to make the rating script and the template work properly there. Feel free to take a stab at the template. I will see what can be done on the extension side. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::What needs to be done on the template side? I'm not sure I see too big of an issue leaving pages as "unknown-quality" for now (or just change the default to tattered) until we get the rating script working. Is that script up anywhere, anything that could be helped with? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 11:10, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::They're already marked as unknown. Really the only issue I know of with the template is that it doesn't show up with some of the newer skins we added, and that can be fixed by getting rid of the absolute positioning. As for the script, it can be found at https://github.com/DF-Wiki/QualityRatings, and the issue is really only with the configuration system not recognizing the main namespace as valid. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:29, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::Great, I started having a crack at fixing the template with different themes. Is the preference to get some CSS going and then include it in the global stylesheet (i.e different styles per theme) or to try and get a "one size fits all" fix? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 08:14, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

It appears some pages are redirecting recursively and never resolving correctly, like the [[https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Character_table&redirect=no|character table]] and [[tileset repository]] 07:35, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
: Indeed, these can be caught here: [[Special:DoubleRedirects]] --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:51, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

It might be useful to change the notice title to "release information '''for editors'''" --[[Special:Contributions/142.59.195.176|142.59.195.176]] 10:26, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Can do. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::New here, hello. Should we set a date where we remove/only show the banner for logged in users. There are (some) pages that have 4 different notices about the upgrade. [[Engraving]] is one such page, the top banner states "information for editors", we then have the "this page was migrated" banner, a version selection which warns the article might be inaccurate, and a smaller banner saying the page might need to be updated. Quite a lot of screen space, I think we can start to slowly reduce the amount of warnings this coming month? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 10:07, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Main talkpages seem to redirect to DF2014 talk. Not sure if it is intentional but I like it, though we should pay attention when creating new discussion relating to v50 ending up there.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 14:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:That's unintentional. I specifically wrote the migration script to not move talk pages, but that has the side-effect of leaving any previously-created "Talk -> DF2014 talk" redirects intact. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Yo Lethosor, are we adding graphic sprites for the pages in some way? Or are we waiting for you to add some sort of new template or something? I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that the current templates don't allow that. Not sure if I'm allowed to change/create any templates either, as I don't want to break things for hundreds of pages. Edit: And IF the icons are allowed, should they be left alone, or 2×-3× sized like how the Minecraft wiki does it? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 14:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Depends on which templates you mean. There are copyright concerns with uploading a premium sprite sheet, for instance. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::I'm not talking about uploading an entire sprite sheet. I'm just talking about individual icons for each respective page. One image for cows, one for horses, one for werebeasts, etc. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 16:50, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::If we do that for every creature in the sprite sheet, that's not much different (in terms of copyright) from uploading the entire sprite sheet. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:09, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::Is there someone we can talk to about that? We finally get this new game with graphics, and then we can't use the very graphics of the game? No matter what the rules are, I'd say that would be the stupidest thing ever. I know I'm infamous here when it comes to copyright and images and stuff, but about 80% of game wikis out there are completely unofficial, and use game file images like no one's business. I can't imagine anyone's door being knocked on if we used the game's sprites, but I won't add any here until we have a go-ahead. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 17:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::...I've made noise in Mayday's direction on this matter, at least (prob an incorrect maneuver, ''but'').[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 17:55, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::: I hope some sort of arrangement can be made so we can use the new sprites with permission/limits, just as we are using the raw files. Otherwise we are all (devs and editors alike) shooting ourselves in the foot here.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 21:07, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::::I just thought of something. We're supposedly not allowed to upload entire sprite sheets, right? What if - for the time being - we just use a few of them for the purpose of testing out new infoboxes? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:46, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::I don't know. If someone could ask Kitfox and post the response here, that would be great. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::::::I've reached out to Alexandra, but she hasn't answered yet. Until then I found these old approvals from the previous community manager, Feeona: ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.msg8243633#msg8243633 link1], [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176640.msg8243642#msg8243642 link2]). Waiting for a newer response until we begin mass uploads is probably the politer option, but like Zippy said, it is also standard for wikis to use game sprites with less approval. I second their idea of trying it out with a few images to test the infoboxes. On the extreme off-chance (and I do think it is) Kitfox protests we can always remove these few. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 22:19, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::And here is a third, more official statement: ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.msg8249718#msg8249718 link3]). Perhaps that address of info@kitfoxgames.com is the better channel to ask for a confirmation, rather than Discord DMs, but I will be going to bed, so it is best if someone else does that. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 22:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::Thanks for tracking this down! Ok, sprites should be fine, but let's avoid uploading the entire premium tileset as a single image, for instance (as the forum thread says, "use common sense"). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:21, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::: Looks good, permission is always preferable over fairuse, I think it is a win win for all involved. I agree that we shouldn't upload entire sprite sheets (e.g. there is no reason to upload the windmill from every direction or whole construction phase for workshops) and that there are a lot of details that needs to be ironed out through testing. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 05:07, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::We have a green light on uploading all and any sprites. Their response to me can be seen [https://i.imgur.com/BhmHjzC.png here]. I'm sure someone else confirmed it before me. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:00, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Shifting temporarily to a new issue, is the documentation of [[Template:ArticleVersion]] outdated? It would seem so to me, since the current version no longer has its own namespace, with the templates needing updating being different ones. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 18:30, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:I think it is still accurate enough. We left open the possibility of making another namespace in the future, albeit with a different migration strategy - see [[#v50 organization|above]]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Some Changes to infoboxes might be needed. Too bad [[User:Doorkeeper]] isn't around. He did a great work with navbox project--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:52, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

I just realized that raw files aren't stored as regular wiki pages but loaded via the DFRawFunctions extension (hence the need to update). Good news it's going to be handled in bulk, consistently and relatively easy to updated. Even better it's Lethosor problem ;) Also I just realized that all the "raw files" (txt files in the new vanilla folder) are released into the public domain. Both are probably not news to the vets but I'll leave it here for those who less up to date like myself. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:35, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

: I noticed that some templates aren't working properly in the new namespace, e.g. [[Basalt]] entry had its raw updated manually but the infobox fail to show any details. Cursory look suggest {{t|layerlookup/0}} need a minor tweak. This should do the work
:: Replace: <nowiki>{{layerlookup/aux|{{{{FULLPAGENAME}}/raw}}|uses={{{uses|}}}|wiki={{{wiki|}}}}}</nowiki>
:: With___: <nowiki>{{layerlookup/aux|{{</nowiki>:<nowiki>{{FULLPAGENAME}}/raw}}|uses={{{uses|}}}|wiki={{{wiki|}}}}}</nowiki>
: Not sure what the plan and ETA with raws update so I didn't touch this high usage template for now. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 08:11, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

::Please do feel free to make this update. I am still working on a script to create the <code>/raw</code> pages themselves. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be an idea to add to the Sitenotice to remove the {{tl|migrated article}} tag when an article has been fully updated? I see many articles that seem to be updated still have the tag. And/or advise to make use of the {{tl|verify}} for sections still in need of checking? --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 10:12, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:Probably a good shout. The "see this page" link does include the detail on removing but we should more explicitly encourage removing the banner once a page has at least been looked over. [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 11:01, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== v50 specific issues ==
=== Graphics===
Follow up on the use of game sprites and the need to trying it out with a few images to test the infoboxes. First sprite [[:File:Beds v50.png]] was uploaded and used on [[Bed]] entry. Any thoughts? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:06, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:Seems like it should be rearranged to be horizontal. Also, has there been a serious discussion about copyright? Full screenshots are 100% fine, but you start going into a grey area when you upload pieces of a spritesheet. I'm of the opinion that it's all fine as long as it's inconvenient to reconstruct the full sheet from the individual images. Maybe a further restriction could be you shouldn't upload any of the art unless it's used in an infobox (maybe an exception for pieces of the UI). And one more restriction could be you shouldn't show everything, like in your bed example, maybe just the wooden bed is good enough, leave out the stone and metal, especially since those can only be made from strange moods. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:43, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::Actually, your bed image is kinda bad for showing off what a bed looks like because it doesn't show the pillow/blankets. That might point to cropped screenshots being the best path, although less convenient for the uploader, as you don't get details left out. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:46, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::I created a new license template [[Template:Copyright game]], based it on the way the RimWorld wiki does things. Call it a prototype, but it's probably how your bed image should be labelled. Indeed, I added it to it already. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]])

::: I agree that the horizontal arrangement would suit better here and that we should strive to represent how things look in-game. Otherwise, I am not too concerned about people being able to reconstruct anything (lets just say that ''anyone'' interested in that can get the real thing from the game files), also it seem we have permission to use the sprits on top of fairuse. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 19:55, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

::: Modifying the existing template to allow the inclusion of the new sprites is easy (Something like [https://ibb.co/zFXCrjd this]?) The big question is the matter of consistency is there any exceptions that will break the format (size wise with variant bloat for example), the sprite naming format, etc --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:44, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::: If we are going to show a variant for each material type, then maybe these should be added as separate images so we can add a tooltip for each image. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:49, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

:I've got another prototype going here and here: [[User:Brightgalrs/vector.css]] and [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox]]. (You'll need to add the css stuff to your own /vector.css). Basically it's a way to recolor images using css classes. No idea if there's a better way. Also, the real implementation would require a change to [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:Should mention, there ''is'' a different way, just upload each image 16 times, one for each coloring. But maybe that's not very elegant. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:45, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

: It should be noted that soon the classic edition will be released, hence one should plan to have both the Premium and classic alongside in that little space --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 03:14, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::I'm looking into a tab extension to potentially support this in infoboxes. Perhaps [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Tabs Extension:Tabs]? I tried [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TabberNeue Extension:TabberNeue], but it displays a placeholder if JavaScript is disabled, which isn't great. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: The Neue Tabber seem to works pretty much like the old one (which fandom [https://coding-help.fandom.com/wiki/Tabber#Adding_images_into_tabbers still use]) defaulting to showing the first tab only. Quick look suggest that neue work the same, plus the notice that 'Tabber requires Javascript to function' warning? if so, and if it is a bother, then you should be able to edit out the tabberneue-noscript string in code. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 06:29, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: I much prefer your tabber solution, but if that fails we can also use the gallery slideshow mode. If so, beware it has no way to control image size so the images have to be maliciously uploaded using the exact same size. example:
<gallery mode="slideshow">
File:SteelSample.png
File:TinSample.png
File:ZincSample.png
File:GoldSample.png
</gallery> --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:19, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

==== adding premium set to Infobox ====
I am unclear where are we going with this? 
1) Will (A) tabs be implemented, (B) we be using mediawiki toggle [[Template_talk:V50_workshop|example]] for premium and classic/blocked, (c) put images side by side, or (d) something else? 
2) Also [[silver]] and [[Pig iron]] use very different image style for example. 
3) Anything else you want ? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 12:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

: Personally, I would love tabs to be implemented, but I think that side by side might be best for most. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 12:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
: Here is rough layout we can use. It should fit most buildings given the default sprite size. There is also a different floor plan for both (inspired by reddit)

{|
|- valign=top
|
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse; "
|+ 5×5
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc; "
|<div class="mw-customtoggle-infoboxtab mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="border-top-right-radius: 10px; border-top-left-radius:10px;">toggle</div>
|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|- valign=top
|colspan=2|<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">
[[File:Siege workshop.png|center|160px]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab"">
{|
|rowspan=2 style="width:50%; font-size: 125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Siege workshop}}</center>
|style="line-height: 1em; font-size: 125%;"|
{| style="border-spacing:4px;"
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|}
|-
| style="text-align: center;" | Layout
|}
</div>
|}
|
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse; "
|+ 3×3
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc; "
|colspan=2 style="text-align: right;"|<div class="mw-customtoggle-infoboxtab mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="float:left; border-top-right-radius: 10px; border-top-left-radius:10px;">toggle</div>{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|- valign=top
|rowspan=2 style="width:50%;"|
<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">[[File:Carpenter's workshop.png]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab""><center>
{| style="font-size: 175%; border-spacing: 0; background-color: black; border: 2px solid black"
|- 
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|"|7:0:0}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|{{=}}|6:0:0}}
|-
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
|-
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|]|0:0:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
|}</center></div>
|
{| style="border-spacing:5px;"
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|}
|-
| style="text-align: center;" | Layout
|}
</div>
|
{| style="width:200px; height:100px; padding:10px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse;"
|+ 1×1
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc;"
| colspan=3 style="text-align:center;"|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|-
| style="border-right: 1px dotted #545557;"|[[File:Screw_press.png|32px|center|link=]]
| style="font-size:125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Screw press}}</center>
| style="border-left: 1px dotted #545557;"|<center>{{Template:Floor Plan Screw press}}</center>
|}
|
{| style="width:200px; height:100px; padding:10px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse;"
|+ 1×3
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc;"
| colspan=3 style="text-align:center;"|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|-
| style="border-right: 1px dotted #545557;"|[[File:water_wheel.png|32px|center|link=]]
| style="font-size:125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Water wheel}}</center>
| style="border-left: 1px dotted #545557;line-height:normal;"|<center>{{Template:Floor Plan Water wheel}}</center>
|}
|}
:Any thoughts on the direction and or any and all of its elements? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:16, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

::I kind of like side-by-side, if it fits. If anyone wants to implement a toggle button or tabs, I would ask that that be implemented in a template for now, so that e.g. we could change a toggle button to tabs in a single place if we decide to install an extension to support that. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:14, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

::: I noticed a comment saying that [[impassable tile]] are no longer used in v50, is that true for all constructions? If so, floor plans are no longer needed, making things much easier as we can fit everything in except the 5v5 constructions like trade depot (and even these can be placed one above the other if so desired). If not, any thought on the alternative floor plan design? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:46, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

:::: None of the constructions have blocking tiles any more from my experience playing. I haven't tested siege weaponry with that stuff, but none of the workshops have it, nor does any furniture. (walls and fortifications will of course obstruct movement [[User:AndrielChaoti|AndrielChaoti]] ([[User talk:AndrielChaoti|talk]]) 18:47, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
::::: Ok, I have removed them from v50. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 23:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I have added a basic side by side variant to [[Template:V50 workshop]] and [[Template:Building]] for testing, let us know if there any issues. Few notes:
* The default image naming scheme of <code>workshop-name.png</code> will likely conflict with existing images here or on commons, maybe another naming scheme should be used like <code>v50 workshop-name.png</code> as it is with ascii pictures.
* There is inconsistency in image size. If you want to use large zoomed images then toggle is best, otherwise they need to be all in native size (96px for 3x3).
* In the current version the code roughly centers the images and if there is a big image like with [[Siege workshop]] it drops to a new line --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 23:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

How about combining shortcut keys and the new menu icons:
<div style="color:white; font-size: large; text-shadow: -1px -1px 0 #000, 1px -1px 0 #000, -1px 1px 0 #000, 1px 1px 0 #000;">[[File:Ui b.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:3px;">b</div>[[File:Ui bo.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:3px;">o</div>[[File:Ui bol.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:3px;">l</div>[[File:Ui boll.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:3px;">l</div></div>
--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 02:24, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

:I worry that this is difficult to read (I read it as "boil" at first). I would rather use something like {{tl|k}} with a known background. What about something like this? [[File:Ui boll.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:0px;">{{k|l}}</div> or, alternatively, using flexbox without any overlap: [[File:Ui boll.png]]{{k|l}} —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:37, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
:: Same, but that is the best I came up with. We can use the key or maybe someone can help improve the design. Also 'l' is hard to read even with {{t|key}}.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 03:05, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
:: I added a {{t|Menu icon}} to start things so others can have a go with it. Also any thoughts on the icon naming convention (their short sequence), is there easier/better way? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:36, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Bizarre palette-swapping idea/prototype ====
No idea if this is a good idea, since it takes a bit of time to set up, and there might be some performance issues... and maybe display issues?

But take a look at this:
{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock|palette-name=amber}}

It's way to swap palettes on an image, although the image itself is a table, with each cell representing a pixel. The template itself looks like this:
<code><nowiki>{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock|palette-name=saffron}}</nowiki></code>
Input the pattern and desired palette name.

I've got a larger showcase here: [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwapShowcase]]. Only did a rock pattern so far, but all palettes are implemented.
The major use for this would be on each stone, metal, wood, etc. type's page. The palette could be read directly from the raws. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 03:22, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

:From a technical perspective, my primary concern is indeed performance. Both on the server side and client side, a large number of tables that large (in terms of markup and cell count, that is) tend to be resource-intensive to generate and render. I saw your image-filtering experiments on [[User:Brightgalrs/vector.css]], and while that strikes me as a newer and less-backwards-compatible approach, it would probably be more resource-friendly.
:Is this color adjustment something the game is doing natively? i.e. does this accurately match what the game displays? I bet we could slap together an image-filtering extension (or find an existing one?) that can do this if needed. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:49, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah that's what I suspected. The images the template creates are spot on, checked it against a screenshot I took of some mica rocks in-game. The css stuff is unfortunately totally incorrect, was cool to learn about it though, so not a complete waste of my time :p. The premium, in-game graphics are true sprites, basically patterns of indexed colors. Each of the in-game colors (which are significantly expanded over the 16 ascii colors, there's 116/117) there is a palette defined in "\Dwarf Fortress\data\vanilla\vanilla_descriptors_graphics\graphics\images\palettes.png". Each indexed color of the sprite is swapped for the corresponding color in the palette. Because of that, the css stuff doesn't work since it's doing the hue/saturation/brightness changes to the entire sprite.
::I've looked into an existing mediawiki extension, couldn't find anything. One thing I did't really look at is some type of lua script/module that would basically emulate what the game is doing. So some function that takes in the base image as well as the desired palette, and based on that finds and replaces each color. No idea what mediawiki's capabilities are on that front. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 05:31, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
:::We do have Scribunto installed now, so it's totally possible to do something in Lua too - forgot about that. I can add you to the group that grants access to edit the Module namespace if you want to give that a shot. If we use an extension, we'd probably need a custom one, similar to DFDiagram (or perhaps DFDiagram could be extended - it's in dire need of a rewrite anyway). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:43, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::::I asked around on the mediawiki irc, I think scribunto/lua is a deadend, at least for taking an uploaded image and doing stuff to it with a lua script. However I did come up with this even more bizarre solution, using block elements. [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwapShowcase2]], maybe less resource intensive? Definitely displays a lot worse though, probably unusable.
::::{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock2|palette-name=saffron}}
::::I dunno, maybe none of this is worth it and we should just write some external program to put all the images together offline, and then just mass upload. It wouldn't be ''that'' many... [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 06:37, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

====Is there an easy way to just paste images from the clipboard?====

I use KDE spectacle to take screenshots straight to the clipboard (after cropping) -- is there an easy way to just paste (and auto-upload) an image into an article? It would make it a lot easier to contribute images. [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 23:35, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Unfortunately there is not. I would be open to a MediaWiki extension to support this if someone finds one. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:32, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:: Looks like this could do it, but I haven't used it before: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SimpleBatchUpload [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 19:41, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

====Standards for adding graphical version screenshots and images====

Hello, new user looking into adding imagery from the new version. Is there a standard for quality of new screenshots or images? I noticed that at a certain zoom level (2 zooms in from the furthest zoomed-out view), the graphics appear crisp and 1:1 pixel scaled, and I would propose that all images be taken at this scale whenever possible. If they need to be displayed larger, they should be nearest neighbor scaled in a photo editing program at 100% increments (Microsoft Paint will do this if you first select the image rather than directly scaling the whole canvas). I would also propose that images should be cropped to conform to the 32x32 pixel grid when possible, though this could be problematic with so many new graphical elements exceeding the bounds of their tiles. I would say the best practice for capturing artwork for items, furniture etc. ought to be done in a 3x3 open area to avoid shadows from nearby walls, or else extracted from the raw files (if this doesn't run afoul of being able to re-create the graphical version using those assets).

I know that perfect is the enemy of good, and any documentation is better than none, but just thought I'd ask about this, and see if/where something like this ought to be posted. [[User:Unclesporky|Unclesporky]] ([[User talk:Unclesporky|talk]]) 13:58, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
:It has been stated in [[Template:V50 workshop]] that <q>screenshots should be at the "native" resolution</q> but someone could edit the [[Screenshot]] page for best practice for the steam version. Or post some examples in [[Talk:Screenshot]] to find out what is best?

=== Hotkeys/Menu navigation ===
Most key bindings and menus have changed. Should the article reflect a) only the old version, b) only the GUI version or c) both? For example, [[Bridge|bridges]] used to be built via {{k|b}} -> {{k|g}}, but now it's in Place strucutures {{k|b}} -> Constructions {{k|n}} -> Bridge {{k|b}}. What should be written in the article? Currently, it's {{k|b}} -> {{k|g}}. I ''think'' it should be only b), but I am not sure if there will be differences regarding hotkeys or menus between the premium version and the free version and then, c) would be the most appropriate option. --[[User:Prometherus|Prometherus]] ([[User talk:Prometherus|talk]]) 10:16, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

: Not sure. I wish the classic release soon --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 16:45, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:: Are you Toady's herald? Looks like it was just released! [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:18, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:: And our questions are answered, the old hotkeys seem to have been thrown out. Part of me is disappointed (useless muscle memory) but also relieved (unified UI for both versions is good in general and for the wiki). [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:25, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: According to info, in a sort of 'demo version' at that. I'll wait a little while longer, for myself.[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 18:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::::It's unlikely that keybindings in it will change significantly. My vote is that we should include information for both premium and classic, everywhere. Hopefully the keybindings are not different between versions. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:26, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Shouldn't it be based on the 50 or what verion the article is written for? [[User:Dominick|Dominick]] [[User_talk:dominick|(TALK)]] 18:42, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:::: The keybindings seem to be consistent between versions, (haven't checked exhausitvely, but since the menu layout is the same I think it is a good assumption). Should also keep in mind/consider that not all actions have keybindings. An option would be write 'Click on the <Example Text> icon or press {{k|E}}' [[User:Koos|Koos]] ([[User talk:Koos|talk]]) 23:14, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

=== Removed features & concepts ===

Since they're removed concepts, I've set [[Room]] to be a redirect for [[DF2014:Room]] and created [[Template:Activity zones]] for the nav bar bedrooms, etc, and made the necessary changes to [[Bedroom]] for it. Is this the correct approach, before I go on much further? (also a note, if it is, then [[Template:v50_rooms]] probably needs to be deleted) I also imagine that considering the number of changes in the interface, that things like [[Adventure mode]] and related pages might best be truncated to "not in 50.03" and when it does make it across, being more deliberately brought over in pieces? [[User:HawkOwl|HawkOwl]] ([[User talk:HawkOwl|talk]]) 06:23, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:Usually it is marked with [[Template:Removed_feature]]. For example: [[Dipscript]] or [[Party]]. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:45, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:: Ah, that's fair. Should that be mentioned in [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Versions#Redirects]]? [[User:HawkOwl|HawkOwl]] ([[User talk:HawkOwl|talk]]) 10:03, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:::I think the redirect policy mostly had in mind things that were removed a ''long'' time ago, like [[Tax collector]] and [[Economy]] (and the latter actually has a stub page as well). I guess we could clarify. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:34, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: The "current" redirects also cause the version box to incorrectly show that the current version has a page - e.g. [[23a:Cave_river]] shows a v50.04 version, but it's just a redirect back to that version. Similarly, what should happen to redirects like [[Clothes maker]], where a concept has evolved? It currently goes to [[23a:Clothes maker]] - that's correct if the user is trying to look up a very old concept, but if a new user is looking for "how to make clothes", they should be directed to [[Clothier]]. --[[User:Danny252|Danny252]] ([[User talk:Danny252|talk]]) 12:16, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: One should be careful with cv redirects. Most that were recently adjusted were unused plural forms (that should probably be deleted) but few like [[Crown]] needed that for backward compatibility. Removing the [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&type=revision&diff=279966&oldid=219482 cv part] means the the link on [[v0.31:Tilesets]] is now broken. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 22:30, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::If [[v0.31:Tilesets]] is about v0.31, it should not be using "main:" in its links - ''all'' of those links are going to pages about v50, not v0.31, regardless of whether the target is a redirect or not. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:37, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::: You right, I removed it. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 17:55, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Crown cv redir issue is now fixed, I believe. As goes with such cases where one can simply revert the troublesome edit, unless I've mistepped, myself? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 23:52, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
:Both [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&diff=prev&oldid=280026] and [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&diff=prev&oldid=279966] should not have had any effect, because "cv" is an alias to the main namespace now, just like "main". Proof: [[Crown]], [[cv:Crown]], [[main:Crown]]. It's possible caching is coming into play here, although I purged the redirect cache after making that alias change earlier this month... —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:02, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

I think there have been some changes not captured, but as a newb, I'm afraid to edit the page(s). A good example is Strawberry. I'm playing the Steam version right now and Strawberry plants are "not relevant to brewing" in Labor > kitchen > veg / fruit / leaves. Unless I'm mistaken and need to process them? Another example is the trade caravan = it seems the 3 square pathing no longer happens; it's just yak(s). 12:31, 28 December 2022 (UTC) 12:29, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
:Strawberries should be brewable according to the Raws.
:Trade wagons has been modified in v50. The first wagons will arrive at the same time your fort is becoming a barony. Until then, it's only pack animals and stairs are indeed fine. The [[Trading]] page needs a huge rework anyway... I'll try to do that next week. --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 13:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

<s>As far as I can tell, none of the workshop buildings in v50 have blocking tiles any more. There's a comment to the like in data/vanilla/vanilla_buildings/objects/building_custom.txt that says this "[BLOCK:1:0:0:0] workbenches no longer block". Hesitant to update that template as I'm not sure if it's referenced for all of the old versions too. </s> [[User:AndrielChaoti|AndrielChaoti]] ([[User talk:AndrielChaoti|talk]]) 05:54, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
: A new template has been created: {{tl|V50 workshop}} --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 13:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
::Thanks! In general, I would like to delegate the switching responsibility to the template (like how {{tl|creaturelookup/0}} works), but in cases where the parameters diverge significantly like with workshops, it could make sense to make an entirely new template. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:40, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

=== creature infobox prototype (moved) ===

Check it out, I made a temporary template and added it to the [[cow]]s page. Now it shows the sprites (but not the zombified versions yet). I wanted to show everyone a prototype of what v50 creature infoboxes should look like. Or at least something similar to it. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:11, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
:Hi, I'm new to editing wikis but I have done a bit of work with sprite sheets and I've been going through the DF data files to find the different graphics hoping to help with the animal pages. I've thrown together a template with grass and a few nature sprites (plants, a tree, and a rock) for size reference but I'm unsure how large the 'display' tiles in the middle of the template should be to suit all animals. I can see in the sprite sheets that some land animals have an adult and child sprite, so two tiles. Others have a male, female, and child, but after seeing you include the zombie cows I'm unsure if I should make it twice the size to add them too. Alternatively, I could grab some tiles from the haunted biomes for the zombie animals and make a separate template for a side-by-side comparison. Either way, let me know if this helps. I'd like to help with other graphics too as we add the premium tilesets but the animals seemed the easiest to tackle with me being new to wiki editing. ~~[[User:UristTheSeventh|UristTheSeventh]]
::@Zippy, I am a bit perplexed about the purple cows. Why do we need a zombified version of creatures on every page?
::@UristTheSeventh, we can use all the help. Maybe post an example, so that we can have something to compare and contrast.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 11:49, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

=== When do we remove the migration note on specific pages? ===

At what point can we remove the "this page was auto migrated from v47" warning? There are a bunch of small pages that are more or less accurate, if I've reviewed them, can I go ahead and remove the warning? [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 23:33, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Yes, feel free to remove it if you think all content is accurate. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

=== Any info on fixing "creature description not found?" ===

I see this issue on most creature pages, it seems to be due to a lookup that's not currently functioning? Cows interestingly doesn't have this issue but I couldn't figure out how to recreate whatever fix it's editor did. --[[User:Yallendallis|Yallendallis]] ([[User talk:Yallendallis|talk]]) 00:22, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
:That is the missing raws issue described above. Cow was fixed by the addition of [[cow/raw]]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:28, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
::Ah makes sense, not fully used to the language of wikis yet so I read over it while looking. To put this bit of questioning to rest for any future readers, is it correct that it's fine to update any raws manually, though it will be done automatically at some point? --[[User:Yallendallis|Yallendallis]] ([[User talk:Yallendallis|talk]]) 07:48, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

=== Adventurer Mode related sections ===

The topic has already been discussed [[#Removed features & concepts|above]], but I don't see a clear line on what to do with article sections that mention Adventurer Mode. Like for example in [[Butcher#Adventurer_mode|Butcher]].

'''a) Truncate''' or '''b) leave in place with a mention''' that the mode is not yet present IG but will be added in a future update?

Personally I think option b) is better, because I think it's silly to undo some work just to reintroduce it a few weeks later, with the necessary corrections. Even if a copy/paste of a previous version takes ~15 seconds, considering the number of articles that need to be corrected, it would be a bit of a waste of time.

== Toggleable image ==

Any objections/comments to using this template for now for toggling between classic and premium images? I'd probably rename it to "Template:Premium-classic thumb image". I'm sure someone can come up with a better UI eventually, but should be easy to migrate at that point. I also think we should use the same customtoggle class for this and for the infobox. [[User:NiftyManiac|NiftyManiac]] ([[User talk:NiftyManiac|talk]]) 23:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

{{User:NiftyManiac/Sandbox/TemplateDualImage|
premium=File:Quickstart-finder.png|
classic=File:Quickstart-finder-partial.png
}}

{{User:NiftyManiac/Sandbox/TemplateDualImage|
premium=File:Quickstart-finder.png|
classic=File:Quickstart-finder-partial.png|
caption=My caption|
width=100px
}}

:This looks nice to me! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:30, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

: Good initiative. From the top of my head:
:* I suggest using a shorthand, no one wants to type 'Premium-classic thumb image'.
:* If we end up using toggle for infoboxes (not sure where we headed there), then I agree definitely same custom toggle class should be used for all, thus allowing to switch premium-classic view on the whole page at a click.
:* The button part on a separate row isn't pretty, creating a lot of dead space that can be used by the text. Are we set on the label 'toggle ascii'? Classic isn't Ascii per se, maybe we can use a 'toggle' with a tooltip {{tooltip|for example|does bla bla bla}}, or maybe we can get rid of the text and have a smaller icon button ([[User:Jan/sandbox#Metal_example|two examples]]).
: I hope that helps. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 11:21, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

:: I added [[Template:Dual image]] with some of your suggestions. Agree that it's not super pretty, feel free to try something different.

::* I put the toggle in the caption mostly because I gave up on trying to make a more sophisticated replacement for the default thumb image behavior, I'm sure someone with better wiki-fu could put together something more intelligent.
::* I cut the text down to just "Toggle"; I think the best solution would be a small graphic showing the old and new dwarf icons with arrows between them. [[User:NiftyManiac|NiftyManiac]] ([[User talk:NiftyManiac|talk]]) 19:21, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

{{Dual image|
premium=File:DFwiki5by53by3farm.png|
classic=File:Quickstart_layout_3.png|
width=100px|
caption=A 5x5 room with a 3x3 farm plot
}}
::: I updated the layout, now it should look just like a regular image thumb. I didn't had time to test it, if it doesn't work for you or you don't like it just revert the last change. cheers. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 21:46, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
::::I don't know which part of this talk page to put this, but I added the ability to add icons to the v50 workshops template. Leaving the icon part blank will not break the template in any way. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 09:47, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Versions

2023-01-03T13:15:20Z

Halavus:

{{archive|
# [[DF Talk:Versions/Archive 1|Page 1]]}}

== Version 0.31.19 starts a new DF generation? ==

My reading of Toady's comments on the release of 0.31.19 is that it came out basically because he felt it would take too long to get DF all the way to 0.32. With the ore changes, the sitefinder changes, the addition of grazing and several different industries, there's a lot of changes between 31.18 and 31.19. So I'm thinking it might be a good idea to call it the first release of DF2011 - and what we refer to as "DF2010" would then become 0.31.18.

Thoughts? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:06, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

==Revisiting Redirects==

I wasn't around when the redirect policy was created, and I'm having trouble understanding the rationale. The example claims that linking [[Main:Cheese]] to [[cv:Cheese maker]] is problematic...but mainspace only ever redirects to the current version. If the best target in the current version is cheese maker, why not link to it directly? (It's not, at least for Cheese, since [[DF2012:Cheese]] exists now.) The explanation seems to be claiming that 40d articles that link to Cheese will follow the Mainspace link--but that hasn't been the case for a long while now. Articles in 40d automatically link against other articles in 40d, so that version remains internally consistent no matter where mainspace links to in the current version. For a current example, what do we gain by linking [[Main:Mead]] to [[cv:Mead]] and linking [[DF2012:Mead]] to [[DF2012:Alcohol]]?

If this really is just an outdated procedure, I recommend we drop the mummery and allow mainspace to link to cv:(best target). Double redirects ''may'' work (sometimes, but [[Main:Mead]] demonstrates a common problem where automatic redirection fails), but if they are unnecessary I think they should be avoided, partly because of problems like [[Main:Mead]] and partly because of the effort required to protect double redirects from users who believe they are problematic.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:16, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

:I was just thinking that. I'm currently attempting to write a basic extension to eliminate the need for mainspace redirects entirely, although Mediawiki's class structure may make this more difficult than I had hoped (the only method I've found for resolving redirects takes the ''article text'' instead of a title, e.g. "#REDIRECT ..."). I do agree that the current situation with redirects isn't ideal, so I'm hoping this will work better (once I get it to work). --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:42, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Okay, that wasn't quite as clear as I meant it to be. In general, I think this is a tricky situation. Mediawiki wasn't designed to have five content namespaces, and certainly not chains of redirects between them. The problem that was pointed out in the [[DF:REDIR|policy]] is the fact that with:
Main:Foo -> cv:Bar
pages in the cv: namespace can't use [[<nowiki/>foo]], since the namespace links modification causes it to be treated as [[<nowiki/>cv:foo]] instead, which doesn't exist. The current suggested solution is this:
Main:Foo -> cv:Foo -> cv:Bar
This fixes the problem of [[<nowiki/>foo]] not working on cv pages, but creates issues with double redirects not always working. Another solution, which is more intuitive to new editors, is:
Main:Foo -> cv:Bar
cv:Foo -> cv:Bar
Both require creating two redirects. The first method has the advantage of ''ensuring'' that the cv redirect exists (otherwise, main:foo would be a redlink), while the second has the advantage of working more reliably in a couple cases.

What I'm trying to do is make main:Foo "jump" to cv:Foo when cv:foo exists, ''even if main:foo doesn't exist'' (basically it would treat all mainspace pages as redirects to cv pages, but only if the cv page exists and not the mainspace page). I had main:Bar jumping to cv:Bar fine, but if cv:Foo redirected to cv:Bar, accessing main:Foo would mysteriously stop at cv:Foo even if I increased the redirect limit. What I'm trying to do now is follow the redirects internally, without relying on Mediawiki to do it automatically - unfortunately, that has proved to be harder than I had hoped (and I sent my web server into an infinite loop while trying). I will try to work on this some more when I get a chance, although I'm not sure when that'll be yet :(. For now, feel free to fix broken double mainspace redirects as necessary, as long as redirects in the DF2012 namespace stay pointing to the right page (and new mainspace redirects get added in the DF2012 namespace too). --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:21, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

:You're treating cv like a namespace--it's not. It is simply shorthand for "fill in the current version here". [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Briess&diff=182404&oldid=181281 As I discovered a long time ago on a server not far away], linking from Main:Foo to cv:Foo tends to break redirection chains. If, instead of linking to cv:Foo, you link to DF2012:Foo, it might just work. It would, of course, be better if your patch could evaluate cv itself, but even if you have to hardcode the current version it's a single point of maintenance that requires update very infrequently. (For that matter, we could probably dispense with the cv hack entirely and just have a bot update mainspace links from DF2012 to DF201X when we switch to a new version.)--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:05, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
::I know cv isn't a namespace - I was just trying to avoid future confusion when the DF2012 namespace changes. It's interesting that changing "cv" to "DF2012" fixes some broken redirects, although I've found that simply making an edit to a broken redirect can usually fix it as well. I've actually had the most problems with double redirects when the second one (in the DF2012 namespace) doesn't use the DF2012 prefix (e.g. main:Foo containing <nowiki>[[cv:Foo]] and DF2012:Foo containing [[Bar]]</nowiki>). I'd rather keep the cv alias even if it isn't necessary for mainspace redirects when I get the patch to work, since it makes it easier to refer to the current version of the page (for example, several MDF articles contain links to a vanilla page for things that don't change in the mod).
::Also, using aliases like "cv" is supported by Mediawiki; in fact, several WMF wikis use them (for example, "[[wikipedia:WP:Redirects|WP:Redirects]]" on Wikipedia). It's quite likely that Mediawiki isn't processing double redirects using aliases correctly, though, since that's uncommon on most wikis. --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:35, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

In light of the lack of support for the current redirect policy, I propose we replace the current redirect section with:

:Mainspace article pages should use the cv: alias when redirecting to a versioned page, which will automatically update the link when a new version is released. For example, page "Main:Foo" should redirect to page "cv:Bar" (where "Bar" is the page that best describes the topic Foo in the current version).

:Pages in mainspace should only redirect to an older versioned page if that content no longer exists in the current version of the game (e.g. [[Cave river]], [[Chunk]]). In these cases the cv: alias cannot be used.

:Pages inside a versioned namespace should not use the cv: alias. Instead, they should redirect to the best page within that versioned namespace (e.g. [[DF2012:Dodging]], [[v0.31:Drink]]).

:Due to limitations of the wiki software, double redirects should be avoided if possible. When fixing double redirects in mainspace, please make sure to use the cv: alias as appropriate.

If no one objects, I will make this change in a few days.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:21, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

:Okay with me. It may be worth mentioning that double redirects only really need to be changed when they don't work (since changing a lot of redirects that work isn't necessary), but I think it's clearer and more relevant than the current policy. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:26, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Done.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:55, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

I was finally able to get my extension to work after being motivated by one too many malfunctioning redirects. It now causes nonexistent pages in the main namespace to behave exactly like redirects to their DF2012 counterparts (when linked to, accessed directly, and transcluded). Double redirects also work (up to 100, in fact, although that was a temporary safety measure that I'll probably change). This means we'll be able to safely get rid of all mainspace redirects (redirects that redirect to something other than "cv" will still function if not deleted). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:20, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
:What about articles which don't exist in the current version but do exist in older versions? Will those still need mainspace redirects, or will your extension be able to automatically redirect them to v0.31/40d/23a? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 01:29, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
::It ignores all mainspace pages that actually have content, including redirects, so pages like [[masons guild]] won't be affected (unless deleted). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:47, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Done and deployed. [[Cat]] is still treated as a redirect, even though I just deleted it (try clicking on the "redirected from" link). Pages that exist are ignored, so [[Masons guild]] and [[History of Dwarf Fortress]] still function normally (as a redirect to a 23a page and a non-redirect, respectively). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm sending around a bot right now to delete all redirects of the format "foo -> cv:foo" (a surprising number don't fit this format, so I'm leaving them alone for now). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:43, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

:I'm confused. Do we use double redirects or not? Is there a single place we define our linking policy (including redirects), and is it updated?
:I had trouble linking to [[Consolidated_development]] in [[v0.34:Dragon]]. It kept pointing to v0.34:Consolidated_development, which does not exist. I ended up linking to Main:Consolidated_development to make it work. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] ([[User talk:Nahno|talk]]) 10:18, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

::That's a separate problem altogether - links in the versioned namespaces (v0.34, v0.31, 40d, 23a) automatically link to pages within their namespace. I may be able to set up a fallback to mainspace once I'm able to deploy again, but for now the "main:" alias is the intended solution. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 11:36, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

== Google often directs people to the 0.31 page ==

I've noticed a couple of times that finding a wiki page from an external search will often drop me onto a page from an older version. Is it possible to mitigate this somehow for new players? I could imagine something like redirecting old:Bar -> cv:Bar unless the user has come from old:Foo; no idea if that would actually work though. [[User:PeridexisErrant|PeridexisErrant]] ([[User talk:PeridexisErrant|talk]]) 11:48, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

:As a temporary solution, I could write a script that displays a banner of some kind if the user came from an external site. I'll ask Briess if he can do anything on the server level to increase the weighting of the current version's pages. (Obviously there are situations where people are looking for old pages, like [[23a:dungeon master]], so we don't want to disable indexing entirely on old pages.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:03, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

== DF2014? ==

As Toady [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ draws closer to a new release], it might be worthwhile to discuss the addition of a new version to the wiki. The upcoming release covers two years of changes and introduces a number of new plants, foods, drinks, multi-tile trees, climbing, jumping, etc., so it is likely to have significant changes from the current DF2012. To avoid having people start new pages (and lose all the effort spent refining the prior version's page), I think it would be best to have a bot automatically copy over the DF2012 pages as a starting point for DF2014. I would suggest that these copied pages include a noticebox template mentioning that the content may be outdated, so that we can easily track which pages have been reviewed. I think either the {{tl|version check}} or {{tl|old}} template would work. --[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:43, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

:This is what [[User:QuietBot]] did after the 0.34 release, so it's certainly possible to use the same script to migrate to DF2014. I would like a way of tagging migrated pages, since inaccuracies in some pages went unnoticed for months after they were migrated. Since {{tl|old}} is already in use, {{tl|version check}} may be a better solution (it can be reworded slightly, or we can make a separate template for DF2014 migration). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:23, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
:Made [[Template:DF2014 migrated]] as an example. Any thoughts? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:32, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

== Redirects inconsistency ==

Following a redirect is supposed to be exactly the same as going straight to the page it redirects to, but this actually isn't the case:
* Go to [[Seeds]] and you get [[v0.34:Seed]] (outdated)
* Go to http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Seeds&redirect=no and click on the link and you get to [[DF2014:Seed]] (current)
So if you search for "seed", the top result is the DF2014 version. But search for "seeds" and you get the redirect, which sends you to the outdated page instead. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 23:22, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

While I'm talking about redirects, it seems redirects to sections don't work: see [[DF2014:How do I manage my seeds and crops]]. I know MediaWiki is capable of this trick because Wikipedia does it. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 23:32, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

:I have absolutely no idea why [[seeds]] redirects to a v0.34 page - it could be a Mediawiki bug. The section links issue is due to a known issue in the redirect extension we use, which has yet to be fixed. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:01, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
:It looks like deleting both [[Seeds]] and [[DF2014:Seeds]] fixed things (by allowing AutoRedirect to handle the redirects instead). Feel free to tag any others with {{tl|bad redirect}}. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:03, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
::It gets stranger. [[Vial]] redirects explicitly to [[cv:Flask]] which displays (when you look at it with &redirect=no) as [[DF2014:Flask]], but still goes to the v0.34 version. It seems redirects interpret the cv: pseudo-namespace (or whatever it's called) in an outdated way. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 18:08, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
::I've added a note to this page about this issue. If it gets resolved, the note should be removed. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 21:04, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

==Reorganizing versions==

The internet deals with moved content... poorly. Google is still linking to v0.34 pages more than a year after the switch to "DF2014", and even the wiki software still has cached links pointing to the old version pages.

I propose reorganizing versions on the wiki to avoid moving content whenever possible. Instead of having a temporary "current version" namespace that changes occasionally, all the current information gets promoted to the Main namespace. When the next version split occurs, the Main articles as of a certain revision number can be copied to the newly-created permanent "old version" namespace, while all the current information remains in Main. This not only fixes the link rot issue, but it has a few other benefits as well: fewer administrative tasks, no lockdown (a historical version of the Main pages can be copied at any point, even if the Main articles are already modified for the new version), almost all the article history is maintained in the Main article (instead of being spread unevenly across multiple versions), no "temporary" namespaces are needed, fewer problematic long redirect chains, and hopefully less user confusion (since Main gets priority in search results, etc.).

As an example, today we would not have a DF2014 namespace (which is good because "temporary" namespaces historically disappear anyway). If you ran a search for [[seed]] you'd end up at Main:seed, which would have all the current information on seeds. The version box at the top of the page would still link to the older versions of the seed article. When a new version is released, an admin would choose a revision number and copy the Main:seed article as it exists at that revision number to v0.40:seed. That's it. One historical copy that needs little to no new editing, and zero redirections/moves.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:02, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

:Makes sense to me. It would involve a lot of work, though (e.g. fixing templates and categories to account for the current version being in mainspace), although that should be doable thanks to {{tl|category}}, {{tl|version switch}}, etc.. A bot could be set up to copy revisions from before a release date as well, which would be more difficult (and maybe slower) than a direct copy, but not severely. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:24, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

:Actually, there are a few issues with that, namely that there wouldn't be an easy way to distinguish between versioned and non-versioned mainspace pages. There are ways to resolve Google search priority (we can exclude pages from older versions from search engine results if there are newer versions of those pages available, for example). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:47, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::There aren't very many non-versioned mainspace pages, and determining if a page is versioned is as simple as looking for the version template and/or categories added by the version template (e.g. copy [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:Current this category] instead of Main:*). The problem with "suggesting" newer pages to Google is that they obviously aren't crawling our wiki regularly (if they were, the fact that the mainspace redirects point to new pages would automatically be picked up). Even if your Google hints worked they wouldn't do anything for all the other broken links out on the 'net.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:35, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::: Google actually crawls the wiki constantly - we probably get crawl hits from google for a continuous block of 2-3 hours per day, each and every day. Why they are slow to update is beyond me though. I can't remember why we didn't do this initially, but there was a technical limitation involved if I remember correctly. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] ([[User talk:Briess|talk]]) 22:05, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::: There are <meta> tags that can be used to hide pages from search results (for search engines that recognize them, that is). Searching for {{tl|av}} or [[:Category:Current]] might work, although we'd have to make sure all of the DF2014 pages include that (some pages don't, particularly some disambiguation pages, although all of them should). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:53, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

:Is there a particular reason main and current are separate to begin with?—[[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 00:17, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

::It's mostly intended to distinguish between versioned and non-versioned pages and make version-related templates simpler to work with, since every versioned page has a namespace. I wasn't active here in 2010 when this system was created, so Briess and Emi would know more.
::Another issue I just thought of with Loci's suggestion is categories - currently, categories like [[:Category:Animals]] are used to organize the versioned sub-categories. Sure, we can change {{tl|Category}} to categorize mainspace pages in [[:Category:v0.40:Animals]] or [[:Category:DF2014:Animals]], but that would be less straightforward because there wouldn't be a namespace with that name (until pages are migrated when a newer major version is released). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:05, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

:Moving current pages to the main namespace sounds like a great idea. -[[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] ([[User talk:Jecowa|talk]]) 20:47, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Another thought: dealing with migrating redirects could be difficult with this proposal - specifically, determining which redirects should be migrated to a versioned namespace. Redirects can't contain {{tl|av}}, at least not before ``#REDIRECT``. I ''think'' it would be possible to copy pages in two stages, though - all non-redirects first, then all redirects whose targets were also copied. Thoughts? Anything I'm missing? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:41, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Some subpages (particularly /raw and /Edit notice) also deliberately lack {{tl|av}}, although those shouldn't be too hard to handle. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:35, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

:Redirect pages (and all other edge cases I've looked at) can be included in categories (like [[:Category:Current]]) to determine whether or not they should be copied into an archival version. But if the redirects are "properly qualified" then they can all be copied over blindly. Mainspace redirects pointing to versioned information should use a blank namespace (which will be automatically constrained to the archival namespace); mainspace redirects pointing to unversioned information should use an explicit "Main" (which will automatically link back to the unversioned page). Then, when [[[[Toady]]]] gets copied to [[[[v0.4x:Toady]]]] it will point back to [[[[Main:Toady One]]]]. Meanwhile, [[[[Beer]]]], copied to [[[[v0.4x:Beer]]]], will properly point to [[[[v0.4x:Alcohol]]]].--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:00, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

::I think qualifying redirects is the best solution here - categorizing redirects manually is another possible source of errors, since categories (or a lack thereof) would only be visible on the redirect page itself, and [[:Category:Current]] is a hidden category. Copying over mainspace redirects into versioned namespaces would also resolve some issues that have come up due to those not reliably existing currently. I should be able to set up a bot script to add "main:" to current mainspace redirects (and it shouldn't break anything, since those redirects go to other mainspace pages anyway). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:57, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

(Note: I wrote all of this without noticing the previous discussion above.) I was wondering, when the wiki creates a new namespace for a major release again, if it is possible to ''not'' create a namespace for the next current version (e.g. "DF202x") and instead have the mainspace articles (which are currently redirects) become the new cv and move the content there. Therefore, [[cv:Cat]] would just be "[[Cat]]" (or [[Main:Cat]]).

Certain namespace-related templates like [[Template:Ns/0]] would need to be changed, though nothing significant as far as I know. For most cases, any "DF2014" would be replaced with "Main" or even blank. There's also multiple extensions handling the current namespace system and they may need to be modified too, though I'm not sure if or how much. I'm guessing based on the discussions above that it will change stuff up.

My reason is the current namespace is increasingly becoming more anachronistic. "DF2014" could be misinterpreted as "this page is about the 2014 version of the game" or "this page was last updated in 2014", which I've seen a few people in forums mention. Granted that [[Template:Av]] is on the top of very article, I still think the namespace is inconsistent with the recentness of the article. But how is this related to what I'm asking for? Let's say we continue the current system: if we happen to do a new namespace change this year and create DF2020, the next major release (after graphics/UI) will be mythgen, which is estimated to take several years to develop (the Big Wait), and so the anachronism will start over again. The proposed way will prevent this from occurring for the next major release and every release thereafter.

I think the confusion with having a namespace that becomes old-fashioned overtime supersedes the confusion with not marking current versioned articles with a namespace. Most users just search "Cat" on the search bar and naturally expect to get information about the latest release of DF. So if users go a page that's just titled "Cat", they won't expect outdated info about cats from a previous release. That's how the current system works anyways. We'll be skipping the two-step process that we have now. It'll make several wiki tasks much simpler as well. Editors can create new articles for current versions without remembering to add a namespace. It'll fix any existing issues with (double) redirects; instead of [[Main:Kitten]] redirecting to [[cv:Kitten]], which goes to [[DF2014:Kitten]], which then redirects to [[DF2014:Cat]], [[Main:Kitten]] would just redirect to [[Main:Cat]]. And the cv: alias will no longer be necessary since "cv:" = "Main:" and will be forever.

There's no need to differentiate the current version and previous versions with a namespace for the current version is what I'm saying. Articles of previous versions will retain their respective namespaces. Users will still type "40d:Cat" to go to the 40d version of the article, but if they want the current version, they'll just type "Cat" (like now). The mainspace containing the "live" version of an article is natural and would create no uncertainty when browsing the wiki. And it would simplify the wiki somewhat and future-proof this anachronism problem. As a bonus, this change will also prevent web search engines from showing previous version pages when typing "DF cat" or something. (This isn't happening right now as DF2014 has been the current namespace for ~6 years, but it'll happen again when everything moves to a new namespace.)

This is the gist of it, and I may have ignored most of the problems with this proposal. I have personally wished for the whole version namespacing be made less complicated and have been seeking for a solution, and I feel like this is the best way to go about in the future. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:27, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

:<s>Whoops, looks like Loci already proposed this exact thing long ago. I definitely missed that discussion and should have checked first. My apologies. I'll move my text to that section and remove this one. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:36, 14 August 2020 (UTC)</s> Done. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:40, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

:The main issue I have with that is that putting pages about the current version in a namespace also differentiates between those pages and pages not about ''any'' version (for example, [[Toady One]] does not need a 40d or v0.34 page). Yes, we can use {{tl|av}} to mark versioned pages, but people often forget to add that to new pages. The current system also allows determining whether a page is versioned or not from its title, which makes migrations a lot faster. Relying on {{tl|av}} would require either reading the content of every page (which would slow scripts down significantly) or cross-checking with the list of all pages including the template (feasible, but a bit more complicated, and still susceptible to missing templates). I suppose that manually fixing and migrating pages missing {{tl|av}} later wouldn't be too much work, though.
:I am definitely in favor of changing "DF2014" (or a new namespace) to "Current", though. I was in favor of "DF2014" in 2014, but I don't think it makes sense anymore, and "Current" seemed to be a popular alternative in both the DF2012 and DF2014 discussions on the matter. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:02, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

== Weird redirect behaviour ==

[[Pump stack]] redirects to [[cv:Screw pump#Pump stack]]. If you look at the redirect itself it says it redirects to DF2014 namespace, which is correct. But if you actually follow the redirect, it goes to v0.34 namespace. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 16:10, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
:Yeah, that's part of the issue described in the above section (the wiki caching part, not on Google's end.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:00, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

== v50 organization ==

Some wiki admins have had a talk on Discord and decided that the most sustainable path forward is to put content for all future versions of DF in the main namespace. We will be working on a bot to do this in the next few days. Feel free to chime in with suggestions here. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:56, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

:Is it maybe possible to do backwards-namespacing? Like we have a "Main" namespace, which people are free to update, and whenever there's a new version of DF the "Main" namespace is copied into a namespace for the then old version, much like how you'd branch a stable branch from a development branch when working with a git-project? [[User:Therahedwig|Therahedwig]] ([[User talk:Therahedwig|talk]]) 23:13, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

::Yeah, we could do that if we decide to. We were talking about doing that for v50, actually, and might still do something similar to preserve edit history if it doesn't end up being too hard to automate. Our hope is that we will not introduce new namespaces for v50 -> v5x, unless there is a serious breaking change (and hopefully there isn't one). But if we change our mind, one advantage of the type of migration you mentioned is that it can be done retroactively - we can copy historical revisions that were current at the time of the release, and would only lose some typo fixes made after the release that apply to earlier versions as well. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:11, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

ETA is < 24 hours. Doing some final checks on a migration script. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 07:08, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

: We should really have a task list as there are many things that change and need updating. Including but not limited to:
:* Most templates that used the previous namespace convention broke, including nav templates.
:* Many game files changed locations and their pages need to be updated.
:* Raws need to be updated.
:* Various features added, changed, removed.
:* UI has been changed -- though I am more inclined to wait for classic release to avoid extra work --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 06:56, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

"''Raws need to be updated.''" Including applying text wraparound where necessary, I suppose - more than a few of them have proven to be that special kind of...''difficult'' to navigate otherwise, shall we say? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:There is already a task list in the [[#v50 migration|section below]] that includes templates and raws, with an explanation. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

== v50 migration ==

The initial migration script is done. New content is in the '''main''' namespace, e.g. [[Cat]]. Old content is still at [[DF2014:Cat]]. History was migrated to the ''new'' (main namespace) articles.

I know several things are broken still. Please reply if you find any others:
<div style="border-left: 2px solid red">
* <s>Versioned templates haven't been migrated yet (e.g. {{tl|vermin}} on [[Ant]])</s>
** Fixed. Most were migrated by a bot.
* Raws are missing on all pages that use them.
** This also affects sidebars, such as on [[Cat]] and [[Microcline]].
** Update: The DFRawFunctions extension has been upgraded to include v50 raws, using the "v50:" prefix for filenames instead of "DF2014:". I haven't finished a migration script to create the /raw pages themselves, but they can typically be created manually by copying the DF2014 /raw pages and changing "DF2014" to "v50" everywhere. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:20, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
* Some pages where the DF2014 page was a redirect to a main namespace page that contained content were migrated incorrectly.
** In this case, the main namespace page is usually a redirect to itself. This can be fixed by undoing LethosorBot's edit to the main namespace page, then copying the content to the DF2014 page.
** Update: most seem to have been fixed manually - thanks! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
* <s>Some main-namespace talk pages redirect to DF2014 talk pages. Some of these redirects work, and some (usually older ones) do not.</s>
** Fixed with a bot. Some redirects from talk pages to other deleted talk pages are now broken, e.g. [[Talk:Above_ground]] (exists) -> [[Talk:Tile attributes]] (redlink). I am leaving them like that because they redirect to where the talk page should be created, but I'm also fine with people deleting them if they really want to. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
* {{tl|quality}} for new articles is disabled (see below)
* Some links from DF2014 to Main weren't working: e.g. the version selector [[DF2014:Mason's workshop]] was linking to [[DF2014:Main:Mason's workshop]] instead of [[Main:Mason's workshop]]. I'm not sure exactly why, but I fixed it with a change to the NamespaceLinks extension. Let me know if you spot similar broken links. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:19, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
</div>

—[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:54, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:The quality levels of the 50.03 pages seem to be missing. I'm not sure if that's covered under that first point. [[User:Trainzack|Trainzack]] ([[User talk:Trainzack|talk]]) 06:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::If the the [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Quality]] feature can be made to work with namespace scheme change, I suggest to automatically assign the lowest quality rating to all pages, alternately add the {{tl|old}} to all pages. Otherwise there will be a lot of pages that will fall through the cracks. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:12, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::I disabled {{tl|quality}} in the main namespace because it would require some rework to make the rating script and the template work properly there. Feel free to take a stab at the template. I will see what can be done on the extension side. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::What needs to be done on the template side? I'm not sure I see too big of an issue leaving pages as "unknown-quality" for now (or just change the default to tattered) until we get the rating script working. Is that script up anywhere, anything that could be helped with? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 11:10, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::They're already marked as unknown. Really the only issue I know of with the template is that it doesn't show up with some of the newer skins we added, and that can be fixed by getting rid of the absolute positioning. As for the script, it can be found at https://github.com/DF-Wiki/QualityRatings, and the issue is really only with the configuration system not recognizing the main namespace as valid. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:29, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::Great, I started having a crack at fixing the template with different themes. Is the preference to get some CSS going and then include it in the global stylesheet (i.e different styles per theme) or to try and get a "one size fits all" fix? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 08:14, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

It appears some pages are redirecting recursively and never resolving correctly, like the [[https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Character_table&redirect=no|character table]] and [[tileset repository]] 07:35, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
: Indeed, these can be caught here: [[Special:DoubleRedirects]] --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:51, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

It might be useful to change the notice title to "release information '''for editors'''" --[[Special:Contributions/142.59.195.176|142.59.195.176]] 10:26, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Can do. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::New here, hello. Should we set a date where we remove/only show the banner for logged in users. There are (some) pages that have 4 different notices about the upgrade. [[Engraving]] is one such page, the top banner states "information for editors", we then have the "this page was migrated" banner, a version selection which warns the article might be inaccurate, and a smaller banner saying the page might need to be updated. Quite a lot of screen space, I think we can start to slowly reduce the amount of warnings this coming month? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 10:07, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Main talkpages seem to redirect to DF2014 talk. Not sure if it is intentional but I like it, though we should pay attention when creating new discussion relating to v50 ending up there.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 14:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:That's unintentional. I specifically wrote the migration script to not move talk pages, but that has the side-effect of leaving any previously-created "Talk -> DF2014 talk" redirects intact. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Yo Lethosor, are we adding graphic sprites for the pages in some way? Or are we waiting for you to add some sort of new template or something? I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that the current templates don't allow that. Not sure if I'm allowed to change/create any templates either, as I don't want to break things for hundreds of pages. Edit: And IF the icons are allowed, should they be left alone, or 2×-3× sized like how the Minecraft wiki does it? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 14:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Depends on which templates you mean. There are copyright concerns with uploading a premium sprite sheet, for instance. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::I'm not talking about uploading an entire sprite sheet. I'm just talking about individual icons for each respective page. One image for cows, one for horses, one for werebeasts, etc. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 16:50, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::If we do that for every creature in the sprite sheet, that's not much different (in terms of copyright) from uploading the entire sprite sheet. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:09, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::Is there someone we can talk to about that? We finally get this new game with graphics, and then we can't use the very graphics of the game? No matter what the rules are, I'd say that would be the stupidest thing ever. I know I'm infamous here when it comes to copyright and images and stuff, but about 80% of game wikis out there are completely unofficial, and use game file images like no one's business. I can't imagine anyone's door being knocked on if we used the game's sprites, but I won't add any here until we have a go-ahead. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 17:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::...I've made noise in Mayday's direction on this matter, at least (prob an incorrect maneuver, ''but'').[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 17:55, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::: I hope some sort of arrangement can be made so we can use the new sprites with permission/limits, just as we are using the raw files. Otherwise we are all (devs and editors alike) shooting ourselves in the foot here.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 21:07, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::::I just thought of something. We're supposedly not allowed to upload entire sprite sheets, right? What if - for the time being - we just use a few of them for the purpose of testing out new infoboxes? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:46, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::I don't know. If someone could ask Kitfox and post the response here, that would be great. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::::::I've reached out to Alexandra, but she hasn't answered yet. Until then I found these old approvals from the previous community manager, Feeona: ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.msg8243633#msg8243633 link1], [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176640.msg8243642#msg8243642 link2]). Waiting for a newer response until we begin mass uploads is probably the politer option, but like Zippy said, it is also standard for wikis to use game sprites with less approval. I second their idea of trying it out with a few images to test the infoboxes. On the extreme off-chance (and I do think it is) Kitfox protests we can always remove these few. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 22:19, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::And here is a third, more official statement: ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.msg8249718#msg8249718 link3]). Perhaps that address of info@kitfoxgames.com is the better channel to ask for a confirmation, rather than Discord DMs, but I will be going to bed, so it is best if someone else does that. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 22:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::Thanks for tracking this down! Ok, sprites should be fine, but let's avoid uploading the entire premium tileset as a single image, for instance (as the forum thread says, "use common sense"). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:21, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::: Looks good, permission is always preferable over fairuse, I think it is a win win for all involved. I agree that we shouldn't upload entire sprite sheets (e.g. there is no reason to upload the windmill from every direction or whole construction phase for workshops) and that there are a lot of details that needs to be ironed out through testing. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 05:07, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::We have a green light on uploading all and any sprites. Their response to me can be seen [https://i.imgur.com/BhmHjzC.png here]. I'm sure someone else confirmed it before me. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:00, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Shifting temporarily to a new issue, is the documentation of [[Template:ArticleVersion]] outdated? It would seem so to me, since the current version no longer has its own namespace, with the templates needing updating being different ones. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 18:30, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:I think it is still accurate enough. We left open the possibility of making another namespace in the future, albeit with a different migration strategy - see [[#v50 organization|above]]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Some Changes to infoboxes might be needed. Too bad [[User:Doorkeeper]] isn't around. He did a great work with navbox project--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:52, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

I just realized that raw files aren't stored as regular wiki pages but loaded via the DFRawFunctions extension (hence the need to update). Good news it's going to be handled in bulk, consistently and relatively easy to updated. Even better it's Lethosor problem ;) Also I just realized that all the "raw files" (txt files in the new vanilla folder) are released into the public domain. Both are probably not news to the vets but I'll leave it here for those who less up to date like myself. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:35, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

: I noticed that some templates aren't working properly in the new namespace, e.g. [[Basalt]] entry had its raw updated manually but the infobox fail to show any details. Cursory look suggest {{t|layerlookup/0}} need a minor tweak. This should do the work
:: Replace: <nowiki>{{layerlookup/aux|{{{{FULLPAGENAME}}/raw}}|uses={{{uses|}}}|wiki={{{wiki|}}}}}</nowiki>
:: With___: <nowiki>{{layerlookup/aux|{{</nowiki>:<nowiki>{{FULLPAGENAME}}/raw}}|uses={{{uses|}}}|wiki={{{wiki|}}}}}</nowiki>
: Not sure what the plan and ETA with raws update so I didn't touch this high usage template for now. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 08:11, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

::Please do feel free to make this update. I am still working on a script to create the <code>/raw</code> pages themselves. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be an idea to add to the Sitenotice to remove the {{tl|migrated article}} tag when an article has been fully updated? I see many articles that seem to be updated still have the tag. And/or advise to make use of the {{tl|verify}} for sections still in need of checking? --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 10:12, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:Probably a good shout. The "see this page" link does include the detail on removing but we should more explicitly encourage removing the banner once a page has at least been looked over. [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 11:01, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== v50 specific issues ==
=== Graphics===
Follow up on the use of game sprites and the need to trying it out with a few images to test the infoboxes. First sprite [[:File:Beds v50.png]] was uploaded and used on [[Bed]] entry. Any thoughts? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:06, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:Seems like it should be rearranged to be horizontal. Also, has there been a serious discussion about copyright? Full screenshots are 100% fine, but you start going into a grey area when you upload pieces of a spritesheet. I'm of the opinion that it's all fine as long as it's inconvenient to reconstruct the full sheet from the individual images. Maybe a further restriction could be you shouldn't upload any of the art unless it's used in an infobox (maybe an exception for pieces of the UI). And one more restriction could be you shouldn't show everything, like in your bed example, maybe just the wooden bed is good enough, leave out the stone and metal, especially since those can only be made from strange moods. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:43, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::Actually, your bed image is kinda bad for showing off what a bed looks like because it doesn't show the pillow/blankets. That might point to cropped screenshots being the best path, although less convenient for the uploader, as you don't get details left out. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:46, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::I created a new license template [[Template:Copyright game]], based it on the way the RimWorld wiki does things. Call it a prototype, but it's probably how your bed image should be labelled. Indeed, I added it to it already. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]])

::: I agree that the horizontal arrangement would suit better here and that we should strive to represent how things look in-game. Otherwise, I am not too concerned about people being able to reconstruct anything (lets just say that ''anyone'' interested in that can get the real thing from the game files), also it seem we have permission to use the sprits on top of fairuse. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 19:55, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

::: Modifying the existing template to allow the inclusion of the new sprites is easy (Something like [https://ibb.co/zFXCrjd this]?) The big question is the matter of consistency is there any exceptions that will break the format (size wise with variant bloat for example), the sprite naming format, etc --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:44, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::: If we are going to show a variant for each material type, then maybe these should be added as separate images so we can add a tooltip for each image. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:49, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

:I've got another prototype going here and here: [[User:Brightgalrs/vector.css]] and [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox]]. (You'll need to add the css stuff to your own /vector.css). Basically it's a way to recolor images using css classes. No idea if there's a better way. Also, the real implementation would require a change to [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:Should mention, there ''is'' a different way, just upload each image 16 times, one for each coloring. But maybe that's not very elegant. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:45, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

: It should be noted that soon the classic edition will be released, hence one should plan to have both the Premium and classic alongside in that little space --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 03:14, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::I'm looking into a tab extension to potentially support this in infoboxes. Perhaps [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Tabs Extension:Tabs]? I tried [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TabberNeue Extension:TabberNeue], but it displays a placeholder if JavaScript is disabled, which isn't great. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: The Neue Tabber seem to works pretty much like the old one (which fandom [https://coding-help.fandom.com/wiki/Tabber#Adding_images_into_tabbers still use]) defaulting to showing the first tab only. Quick look suggest that neue work the same, plus the notice that 'Tabber requires Javascript to function' warning? if so, and if it is a bother, then you should be able to edit out the tabberneue-noscript string in code. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 06:29, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: I much prefer your tabber solution, but if that fails we can also use the gallery slideshow mode. If so, beware it has no way to control image size so the images have to be maliciously uploaded using the exact same size. example:
<gallery mode="slideshow">
File:SteelSample.png
File:TinSample.png
File:ZincSample.png
File:GoldSample.png
</gallery> --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:19, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

==== adding premium set to Infobox ====
I am unclear where are we going with this? 
1) Will (A) tabs be implemented, (B) we be using mediawiki toggle [[Template_talk:V50_workshop|example]] for premium and classic/blocked, (c) put images side by side, or (d) something else? 
2) Also [[silver]] and [[Pig iron]] use very different image style for example. 
3) Anything else you want ? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 12:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

: Personally, I would love tabs to be implemented, but I think that side by side might be best for most. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 12:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
: Here is rough layout we can use. It should fit most buildings given the default sprite size. There is also a different floor plan for both (inspired by reddit)

{|
|- valign=top
|
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse; "
|+ 5×5
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc; "
|<div class="mw-customtoggle-infoboxtab mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="border-top-right-radius: 10px; border-top-left-radius:10px;">toggle</div>
|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|- valign=top
|colspan=2|<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">
[[File:Siege workshop.png|center|160px]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab"">
{|
|rowspan=2 style="width:50%; font-size: 125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Siege workshop}}</center>
|style="line-height: 1em; font-size: 125%;"|
{| style="border-spacing:4px;"
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|}
|-
| style="text-align: center;" | Layout
|}
</div>
|}
|
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse; "
|+ 3×3
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc; "
|colspan=2 style="text-align: right;"|<div class="mw-customtoggle-infoboxtab mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="float:left; border-top-right-radius: 10px; border-top-left-radius:10px;">toggle</div>{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|- valign=top
|rowspan=2 style="width:50%;"|
<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">[[File:Carpenter's workshop.png]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab""><center>
{| style="font-size: 175%; border-spacing: 0; background-color: black; border: 2px solid black"
|- 
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|"|7:0:0}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|{{=}}|6:0:0}}
|-
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
|-
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|]|0:0:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
|}</center></div>
|
{| style="border-spacing:5px;"
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|}
|-
| style="text-align: center;" | Layout
|}
</div>
|
{| style="width:200px; height:100px; padding:10px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse;"
|+ 1×1
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc;"
| colspan=3 style="text-align:center;"|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|-
| style="border-right: 1px dotted #545557;"|[[File:Screw_press.png|32px|center|link=]]
| style="font-size:125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Screw press}}</center>
| style="border-left: 1px dotted #545557;"|<center>{{Template:Floor Plan Screw press}}</center>
|}
|
{| style="width:200px; height:100px; padding:10px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse;"
|+ 1×3
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc;"
| colspan=3 style="text-align:center;"|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|-
| style="border-right: 1px dotted #545557;"|[[File:water_wheel.png|32px|center|link=]]
| style="font-size:125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Water wheel}}</center>
| style="border-left: 1px dotted #545557;line-height:normal;"|<center>{{Template:Floor Plan Water wheel}}</center>
|}
|}
:Any thoughts on the direction and or any and all of its elements? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:16, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

::I kind of like side-by-side, if it fits. If anyone wants to implement a toggle button or tabs, I would ask that that be implemented in a template for now, so that e.g. we could change a toggle button to tabs in a single place if we decide to install an extension to support that. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:14, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

::: I noticed a comment saying that [[impassable tile]] are no longer used in v50, is that true for all constructions? If so, floor plans are no longer needed, making things much easier as we can fit everything in except the 5v5 constructions like trade depot (and even these can be placed one above the other if so desired). If not, any thought on the alternative floor plan design? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:46, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

:::: None of the constructions have blocking tiles any more from my experience playing. I haven't tested siege weaponry with that stuff, but none of the workshops have it, nor does any furniture. (walls and fortifications will of course obstruct movement [[User:AndrielChaoti|AndrielChaoti]] ([[User talk:AndrielChaoti|talk]]) 18:47, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
::::: Ok, I have removed them from v50. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 23:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I have added a basic side by side variant to [[Template:V50 workshop]] and [[Template:Building]] for testing, let us know if there any issues. Few notes:
* The default image naming scheme of <code>workshop-name.png</code> will likely conflict with existing images here or on commons, maybe another naming scheme should be used like <code>v50 workshop-name.png</code> as it is with ascii pictures.
* There is inconsistency in image size. If you want to use large zoomed images then toggle is best, otherwise they need to be all in native size (96px for 3x3).
* In the current version the code roughly centers the images and if there is a big image like with [[Siege workshop]] it drops to a new line --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 23:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

How about combining shortcut keys and the new menu icons:
<div style="color:white; font-size: large; text-shadow: -1px -1px 0 #000, 1px -1px 0 #000, -1px 1px 0 #000, 1px 1px 0 #000;">[[File:Ui b.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:3px;">b</div>[[File:Ui bo.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:3px;">o</div>[[File:Ui bol.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:3px;">l</div>[[File:Ui boll.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:3px;">l</div></div>
--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 02:24, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

:I worry that this is difficult to read (I read it as "boil" at first). I would rather use something like {{tl|k}} with a known background. What about something like this? [[File:Ui boll.png]]<div style="position: absolute; bottom:-14px; right:0px;">{{k|l}}</div> or, alternatively, using flexbox without any overlap: [[File:Ui boll.png]]{{k|l}} —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:37, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
:: Same, but that is the best I came up with. We can use the key or maybe someone can help improve the design. Also 'l' is hard to read even with {{t|key}}.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 03:05, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
:: I added a {{t|Menu icon}} to start things so others can have a go with it. Also any thoughts on the icon naming convention (their short sequence), is there easier/better way? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:36, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Bizarre palette-swapping idea/prototype ====
No idea if this is a good idea, since it takes a bit of time to set up, and there might be some performance issues... and maybe display issues?

But take a look at this:
{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock|palette-name=amber}}

It's way to swap palettes on an image, although the image itself is a table, with each cell representing a pixel. The template itself looks like this:
<code><nowiki>{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock|palette-name=saffron}}</nowiki></code>
Input the pattern and desired palette name.

I've got a larger showcase here: [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwapShowcase]]. Only did a rock pattern so far, but all palettes are implemented.
The major use for this would be on each stone, metal, wood, etc. type's page. The palette could be read directly from the raws. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 03:22, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

:From a technical perspective, my primary concern is indeed performance. Both on the server side and client side, a large number of tables that large (in terms of markup and cell count, that is) tend to be resource-intensive to generate and render. I saw your image-filtering experiments on [[User:Brightgalrs/vector.css]], and while that strikes me as a newer and less-backwards-compatible approach, it would probably be more resource-friendly.
:Is this color adjustment something the game is doing natively? i.e. does this accurately match what the game displays? I bet we could slap together an image-filtering extension (or find an existing one?) that can do this if needed. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:49, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah that's what I suspected. The images the template creates are spot on, checked it against a screenshot I took of some mica rocks in-game. The css stuff is unfortunately totally incorrect, was cool to learn about it though, so not a complete waste of my time :p. The premium, in-game graphics are true sprites, basically patterns of indexed colors. Each of the in-game colors (which are significantly expanded over the 16 ascii colors, there's 116/117) there is a palette defined in "\Dwarf Fortress\data\vanilla\vanilla_descriptors_graphics\graphics\images\palettes.png". Each indexed color of the sprite is swapped for the corresponding color in the palette. Because of that, the css stuff doesn't work since it's doing the hue/saturation/brightness changes to the entire sprite.
::I've looked into an existing mediawiki extension, couldn't find anything. One thing I did't really look at is some type of lua script/module that would basically emulate what the game is doing. So some function that takes in the base image as well as the desired palette, and based on that finds and replaces each color. No idea what mediawiki's capabilities are on that front. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 05:31, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
:::We do have Scribunto installed now, so it's totally possible to do something in Lua too - forgot about that. I can add you to the group that grants access to edit the Module namespace if you want to give that a shot. If we use an extension, we'd probably need a custom one, similar to DFDiagram (or perhaps DFDiagram could be extended - it's in dire need of a rewrite anyway). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:43, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::::I asked around on the mediawiki irc, I think scribunto/lua is a deadend, at least for taking an uploaded image and doing stuff to it with a lua script. However I did come up with this even more bizarre solution, using block elements. [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwapShowcase2]], maybe less resource intensive? Definitely displays a lot worse though, probably unusable.
::::{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock2|palette-name=saffron}}
::::I dunno, maybe none of this is worth it and we should just write some external program to put all the images together offline, and then just mass upload. It wouldn't be ''that'' many... [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 06:37, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

====Is there an easy way to just paste images from the clipboard?====

I use KDE spectacle to take screenshots straight to the clipboard (after cropping) -- is there an easy way to just paste (and auto-upload) an image into an article? It would make it a lot easier to contribute images. [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 23:35, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Unfortunately there is not. I would be open to a MediaWiki extension to support this if someone finds one. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:32, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:: Looks like this could do it, but I haven't used it before: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SimpleBatchUpload [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 19:41, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

=== Hotkeys/Menu navigation ===
Most key bindings and menus have changed. Should the article reflect a) only the old version, b) only the GUI version or c) both? For example, [[Bridge|bridges]] used to be built via {{k|b}} -> {{k|g}}, but now it's in Place strucutures {{k|b}} -> Constructions {{k|n}} -> Bridge {{k|b}}. What should be written in the article? Currently, it's {{k|b}} -> {{k|g}}. I ''think'' it should be only b), but I am not sure if there will be differences regarding hotkeys or menus between the premium version and the free version and then, c) would be the most appropriate option. --[[User:Prometherus|Prometherus]] ([[User talk:Prometherus|talk]]) 10:16, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

: Not sure. I wish the classic release soon --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 16:45, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:: Are you Toady's herald? Looks like it was just released! [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:18, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:: And our questions are answered, the old hotkeys seem to have been thrown out. Part of me is disappointed (useless muscle memory) but also relieved (unified UI for both versions is good in general and for the wiki). [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:25, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: According to info, in a sort of 'demo version' at that. I'll wait a little while longer, for myself.[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 18:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::::It's unlikely that keybindings in it will change significantly. My vote is that we should include information for both premium and classic, everywhere. Hopefully the keybindings are not different between versions. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:26, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Shouldn't it be based on the 50 or what verion the article is written for? [[User:Dominick|Dominick]] [[User_talk:dominick|(TALK)]] 18:42, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:::: The keybindings seem to be consistent between versions, (haven't checked exhausitvely, but since the menu layout is the same I think it is a good assumption). Should also keep in mind/consider that not all actions have keybindings. An option would be write 'Click on the <Example Text> icon or press {{k|E}}' [[User:Koos|Koos]] ([[User talk:Koos|talk]]) 23:14, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

=== Removed features & concepts ===

Since they're removed concepts, I've set [[Room]] to be a redirect for [[DF2014:Room]] and created [[Template:Activity zones]] for the nav bar bedrooms, etc, and made the necessary changes to [[Bedroom]] for it. Is this the correct approach, before I go on much further? (also a note, if it is, then [[Template:v50_rooms]] probably needs to be deleted) I also imagine that considering the number of changes in the interface, that things like [[Adventure mode]] and related pages might best be truncated to "not in 50.03" and when it does make it across, being more deliberately brought over in pieces? [[User:HawkOwl|HawkOwl]] ([[User talk:HawkOwl|talk]]) 06:23, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:Usually it is marked with [[Template:Removed_feature]]. For example: [[Dipscript]] or [[Party]]. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:45, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:: Ah, that's fair. Should that be mentioned in [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Versions#Redirects]]? [[User:HawkOwl|HawkOwl]] ([[User talk:HawkOwl|talk]]) 10:03, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:::I think the redirect policy mostly had in mind things that were removed a ''long'' time ago, like [[Tax collector]] and [[Economy]] (and the latter actually has a stub page as well). I guess we could clarify. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:34, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: The "current" redirects also cause the version box to incorrectly show that the current version has a page - e.g. [[23a:Cave_river]] shows a v50.04 version, but it's just a redirect back to that version. Similarly, what should happen to redirects like [[Clothes maker]], where a concept has evolved? It currently goes to [[23a:Clothes maker]] - that's correct if the user is trying to look up a very old concept, but if a new user is looking for "how to make clothes", they should be directed to [[Clothier]]. --[[User:Danny252|Danny252]] ([[User talk:Danny252|talk]]) 12:16, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: One should be careful with cv redirects. Most that were recently adjusted were unused plural forms (that should probably be deleted) but few like [[Crown]] needed that for backward compatibility. Removing the [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&type=revision&diff=279966&oldid=219482 cv part] means the the link on [[v0.31:Tilesets]] is now broken. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 22:30, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::If [[v0.31:Tilesets]] is about v0.31, it should not be using "main:" in its links - ''all'' of those links are going to pages about v50, not v0.31, regardless of whether the target is a redirect or not. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:37, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::: You right, I removed it. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 17:55, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Crown cv redir issue is now fixed, I believe. As goes with such cases where one can simply revert the troublesome edit, unless I've mistepped, myself? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 23:52, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
:Both [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&diff=prev&oldid=280026] and [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&diff=prev&oldid=279966] should not have had any effect, because "cv" is an alias to the main namespace now, just like "main". Proof: [[Crown]], [[cv:Crown]], [[main:Crown]]. It's possible caching is coming into play here, although I purged the redirect cache after making that alias change earlier this month... —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:02, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

I think there have been some changes not captured, but as a newb, I'm afraid to edit the page(s). A good example is Strawberry. I'm playing the Steam version right now and Strawberry plants are "not relevant to brewing" in Labor > kitchen > veg / fruit / leaves. Unless I'm mistaken and need to process them? Another example is the trade caravan = it seems the 3 square pathing no longer happens; it's just yak(s). 12:31, 28 December 2022 (UTC) 12:29, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
:Strawberries should be brewable according to the Raws.
:Trade wagons has been modified in v50. The first wagons will arrive at the same time your fort is becoming a barony. Until then, it's only pack animals and stairs are indeed fine. The [[Trading]] page needs a huge rework anyway... I'll try to do that next week. --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 13:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

<s>As far as I can tell, none of the workshop buildings in v50 have blocking tiles any more. There's a comment to the like in data/vanilla/vanilla_buildings/objects/building_custom.txt that says this "[BLOCK:1:0:0:0] workbenches no longer block". Hesitant to update that template as I'm not sure if it's referenced for all of the old versions too. </s> [[User:AndrielChaoti|AndrielChaoti]] ([[User talk:AndrielChaoti|talk]]) 05:54, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
: A new template has been created: {{tl|V50 workshop}} --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 13:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
::Thanks! In general, I would like to delegate the switching responsibility to the template (like how {{tl|creaturelookup/0}} works), but in cases where the parameters diverge significantly like with workshops, it could make sense to make an entirely new template. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:40, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

=== creature infobox prototype (moved) ===

Check it out, I made a temporary template and added it to the [[cow]]s page. Now it shows the sprites (but not the zombified versions yet). I wanted to show everyone a prototype of what v50 creature infoboxes should look like. Or at least something similar to it. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:11, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
:Hi, I'm new to editing wikis but I have done a bit of work with sprite sheets and I've been going through the DF data files to find the different graphics hoping to help with the animal pages. I've thrown together a template with grass and a few nature sprites (plants, a tree, and a rock) for size reference but I'm unsure how large the 'display' tiles in the middle of the template should be to suit all animals. I can see in the sprite sheets that some land animals have an adult and child sprite, so two tiles. Others have a male, female, and child, but after seeing you include the zombie cows I'm unsure if I should make it twice the size to add them too. Alternatively, I could grab some tiles from the haunted biomes for the zombie animals and make a separate template for a side-by-side comparison. Either way, let me know if this helps. I'd like to help with other graphics too as we add the premium tilesets but the animals seemed the easiest to tackle with me being new to wiki editing. ~~[[User:UristTheSeventh|UristTheSeventh]]
::@Zippy, I am a bit perplexed about the purple cows. Why do we need a zombified version of creatures on every page?
::@UristTheSeventh, we can use all the help. Maybe post an example, so that we can have something to compare and contrast.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 11:49, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

=== When do we remove the migration note on specific pages? ===

At what point can we remove the "this page was auto migrated from v47" warning? There are a bunch of small pages that are more or less accurate, if I've reviewed them, can I go ahead and remove the warning? [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 23:33, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Yes, feel free to remove it if you think all content is accurate. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

=== Any info on fixing "creature description not found?" ===

I see this issue on most creature pages, it seems to be due to a lookup that's not currently functioning? Cows interestingly doesn't have this issue but I couldn't figure out how to recreate whatever fix it's editor did. --[[User:Yallendallis|Yallendallis]] ([[User talk:Yallendallis|talk]]) 00:22, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
:That is the missing raws issue described above. Cow was fixed by the addition of [[cow/raw]]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:28, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
::Ah makes sense, not fully used to the language of wikis yet so I read over it while looking. To put this bit of questioning to rest for any future readers, is it correct that it's fine to update any raws manually, though it will be done automatically at some point? --[[User:Yallendallis|Yallendallis]] ([[User talk:Yallendallis|talk]]) 07:48, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

=== Adventurer Mode related sections ===

The topic has already been discussed [[#Removed features & concepts|above]], but I don't see a clear line on what to do with article sections that mention Adventurer Mode. Like for example in [[Butcher#Adventurer_mode|Butcher]].

'''a) Truncate''' or '''b) leave in place with a mention''' that the mode is not yet present IG but will be added in a future update?

Personally I think option b) is better, because I think it's silly to undo some work just to reintroduce it a few weeks later, with the necessary corrections. Even if a copy/paste of a previous version takes ~15 seconds, considering the number of articles that need to be corrected, it would be a bit of a waste of time.

== Toggleable image ==

Any objections/comments to using this template for now for toggling between classic and premium images? I'd probably rename it to "Template:Premium-classic thumb image". I'm sure someone can come up with a better UI eventually, but should be easy to migrate at that point. I also think we should use the same customtoggle class for this and for the infobox. [[User:NiftyManiac|NiftyManiac]] ([[User talk:NiftyManiac|talk]]) 23:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

{{User:NiftyManiac/Sandbox/TemplateDualImage|
premium=File:Quickstart-finder.png|
classic=File:Quickstart-finder-partial.png
}}

{{User:NiftyManiac/Sandbox/TemplateDualImage|
premium=File:Quickstart-finder.png|
classic=File:Quickstart-finder-partial.png|
caption=My caption|
width=100px
}}

:This looks nice to me! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:30, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

: Good initiative. From the top of my head:
:* I suggest using a shorthand, no one wants to type 'Premium-classic thumb image'.
:* If we end up using toggle for infoboxes (not sure where we headed there), then I agree definitely same custom toggle class should be used for all, thus allowing to switch premium-classic view on the whole page at a click.
:* The button part on a separate row isn't pretty, creating a lot of dead space that can be used by the text. Are we set on the label 'toggle ascii'? Classic isn't Ascii per se, maybe we can use a 'toggle' with a tooltip {{tooltip|for example|does bla bla bla}}, or maybe we can get rid of the text and have a smaller icon button ([[User:Jan/sandbox#Metal_example|two examples]]).
: I hope that helps. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 11:21, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

:: I added [[Template:Dual image]] with some of your suggestions. Agree that it's not super pretty, feel free to try something different.

::* I put the toggle in the caption mostly because I gave up on trying to make a more sophisticated replacement for the default thumb image behavior, I'm sure someone with better wiki-fu could put together something more intelligent.
::* I cut the text down to just "Toggle"; I think the best solution would be a small graphic showing the old and new dwarf icons with arrows between them. [[User:NiftyManiac|NiftyManiac]] ([[User talk:NiftyManiac|talk]]) 19:21, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

{{Dual image|
premium=File:DFwiki5by53by3farm.png|
classic=File:Quickstart_layout_3.png|
width=100px|
caption=A 5x5 room with a 3x3 farm plot
}}
::: I updated the layout, now it should look just like a regular image thumb. I didn't had time to test it, if it doesn't work for you or you don't like it just revert the last change. cheers. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 21:46, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
::::I don't know which part of this talk page to put this, but I added the ability to add icons to the v50 workshops template. Leaving the icon part blank will not break the template in any way. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 09:47, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Butcher's shop

2023-01-03T11:16:28Z

Halavus: is up to date

{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{V50 workshop
|name=Butcher's shop
|icon=[[File:butchers_shop_icon.png]]
|key=f|key2=b
|job=*[[Butcher|Butchery]]
|construction=
* [[Building material]] (non-[[economic]])
|construction_job=
1 of
*[[Butchery]]
*[[Small animal dissection]]
*[[Trapping]]
|use=
* [[Tame animals]]
* Corpses of untamed non-sentient animals
|production=
* [[Skin]]
* [[Fat]]
* [[Meat]]
* [[Bone]]
* [[Prepared organs]]
* [[Skull]]
* [[Scale]]
* [[Hooves]]
* [[Ivory]]
* [[Tooth]]
* [[Hair]]
* [[Wool]]
}}{{av}}

The '''butcher's shop''' is used to [[Butcher#Slaughtering|slaughter]] [[Tame animals|tame animals]], or to [[butcher]] the corpses or skeletons of slain wild animals. A tame animal can be designated for slaughter in the {{k|u}} [[Unit_list|Creatures]] menu under the Pets/Livestock tab.

Slaughtering is instantaneous once the animal has been led to the butcher's shop. [[Pet]]s cannot be slaughtered.

Wild animal corpses, body parts or skeletons can be [[Butcher#Butchering|butchered]] as long as they are sufficiently close to the butcher's shop, and sufficiently large to yield results. Butchering is ''not'' instanteous.

== Industry ==
A butchered animal results into various items with different uses:

{| {{prettytable}}
!Item
!Uses
|-
|[[Meat]] and [[Prepared organs]]
|Eaten raw or [[kitchen|cooked]]
|-
|[[Fat]]
|[[kitchen|Cooked]] to [[tallow]]
|-
|[[Skull]]s
|Crafting skull [[totem]]s
|-
|[[Bone]]s
|Crafting bone [[armor]], bone [[bolt]]s, bone [[crafts]], bone [[decoration]]s, and [[strange mood]]s
|-
|[[Hoof|Hooves]], [[Horn]]s, [[Tooth|Teeth]]
|[[crafts]] and [[decoration]]s
|-
|[[Shell]]s
|Crafting shell [[armor]], shell [[crafts]], shell [[decoration]]s, and [[strange mood]]s
|-
|[[Skin]]
|Tanned into [[Leather]]
|-
|[[Wool]]
|Spun into [[Yarn]]
|-
|[[Hair]]
|Spun into [[thread]], but not woven into [[cloth]]
|-
|[[Cartilage]]
|Currently no uses.
|-
|[[Nervous tissue]]
|Currently no uses.
|-
|[[Feather]], [[Scale]], [[Chitin]], and [[Nail]]
|Currently no uses.
|}

==Tasks==

*'''Butcher an animal'''
Renders a dead animal into its component parts of [[meat]], [[fat]], [[skin]], [[bone]]s, and [[skull]]s. Usually used on animals that your [[hunter]] brings back, or tame animals you chose for slaughter. The animal must be in a stockpile (anywhere) or lying on the ground within 20 tiles of the edge of the butcher's shop ''in the same z-level'' (i.e. a 43x43x1 box centered on the workshop).

*'''Catch live land animal'''
Requires an [[animal trap]] and [[trapping]].
The trapper will take the trap and chase vermin until it catches one.
This task is also available in the [[vermin catcher's shop]].

*'''Extract from land animal'''
Requires a caged [[fire snake]], [[cave spider]], or [[phantom spider]] and [[Animal dissector|animal dissection]]. Contrary to the name of the task, the vermin must be alive (though it will be dead once the task is done).
Produces [[liquid fire]] and [[venom]], respectively.

==Common Uses==
*Produce meat for food.
*Produce skin for leather.
*Produce bones for bolts or bone crafts.

==Helpful Strategies==

=== Hauling and stockpile considerations ===

One thing to beware of is that butchered creatures will practically explode into piles of meat, bones, fat, organs and more; this can quickly clutter up a butchers shop or risk rotting the entire pile if not enough haulers and a suitable stockpile are available. Refuse also can not be stored in containers, so every item will use up one stockpile tile. For any jobs, such as cooking meat, rendering fat, and carving bones, the entire stack will become tasked and unavailable to other workshops.

The initial corpse or body part must be in a stockpile close enough to the butcher's shop to automatically trigger the '''Butcher a dead animal''' job. Similarly, there is a maximum distance for the [[Main:Tanner's shop|Tanner's shop]] to notice a skin and automatically trigger a '''Tan a skin''' job.

=== Clutter Reduction and Rotting Prevention ===

A good way to cut down on clutter and to prevent your butchered animals from rotting is to build a [[Quantum stockpile]] right by your butcher shops and then place a stockpile at the bottom. This way as meat is produced you can order it dumped into the stockpile so it is stored easily and will not rot.
To prevent rotten meat from producing [[miasma]] channel out a shaft above your butcher shops and build a wall around it on the surface. This way if meat rots it will not produce miasma.

==Notes==
*A butcher's shop is operated by any dwarf with the 'butchery' [[labor]].
*Corpses left to rot will become skeletons. Only those of wild animals (typically killed from hunting or traps) can be processed at the butcher's shop. Products will be bone, skull, hoof, horn and the like (no meat, fat, prepared organs or skin).
*Partial corpses as well as mutilated corpses do not provide the "full set"; the number of bones may be lower, organs may be missing.
*You can't butcher vermin fish, that is done at the [[Main:Fishery|Fishery]]. But you can butcher underwater creatures. For instance, you can butcher 'Carp corpse', but you can't butcher 'Oyster'.
*Tame animals that die by any reason, be it starvation, old age or violence, are unbutcherable. {{bug|1275}}

[[File:Bartolomeo Passerotti - The Butcher's Shop - WGA17071.jpg|thumb|340px|center|Bartolomeo Passerotti - The Butcher's Shop]]

==See Also==
*[[Butcher]]
*[[Creature]] pages for butchering results.
*[[Meat industry]]
*[[Stockpile]]

{{Workshops}}

Necromancer

2023-01-03T08:21:52Z

Halavus: /* Raise corpse/intelligent undead */ Combat log

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{av}}
[[File:necromancer_sprite_preview.png|right]]'''Necromancers''' {{Tile|Ñ|5:1}} are [[immortal]] beings blessed with the [[secret]]s of life and death. These [[night creature]]s are [[magic]] users who raise legions of [[undead]] and seclude themselves in [[Tower_(necromancy)|tower]]s. Most [[creatures]] that are necromancers will have their sprite appear with pale purple-like skin.

==The Origin of Necromancers==
Necromancers initially begin as normal [[historical figure]]s who are [[Creature_token#MAXAGE|mortal]], [[Creature_token#CAN_SPEAK|can speak]], [[Creature_token#CAN_LEARN| learn]] and are also part of an [[civilization|entity]]; in unmodded games these are [[dwarf|dwarves]], [[human]]s and civilized [[animal people]]. At some point in its life, one of these creatures may suddenly become "obsessed with his/her/its own mortality" and seek to become immortal. Shortly afterwards, it will begin (if it does not do so already) worshiping a [[deity]] (or a creature with the {{token|SUPERNATURAL|c}} tag) who has a [[sphere|DEATH sphere]]. Once the deity/supernatural creature becomes an object of ardent worship to the figure, it will reward the worshipper with an artifact [[slab]] containing the secrets of life and death, which is then swiftly claimed by the recipient for diligent learning, thus becoming a necromancer. This original necromancer may then take as apprentice one or more fellow immortality-seekers, who will obtain the knowledge of their master.

==Description==
Having mastered the secrets of life and death, necromancers have reached their goal of [[immortality]], in that they do not [[age]], need to [[food|eat]], [[thirst|drink]], or require [[sleep]], as they [[No Exert|never get tired or exhausted]]. However, they ''do'' need to breathe, unlike [[vampire]]s. Necromancers are still fertile, and in fortress mode, female dwarf necromancers can give birth. Their {{token|ANXIETY_PROPENSITY}} is raised by 50, while their {{token|TRUST}} is lowered by 50, and some necromancer secrets add {{token|LIKES_FIGHTING}}.

The defining characteristic of necromancers is that they know the secrets of life and death, which gives them extra powers. However, not all secrets are created equal - different secrets will yield different powers.

== Secrets ==
[[File:necromancer_preview.jpg|thumb|360px|One of the worst ways to deal with grief. ''Art by ChrisCold''.]]Each secret gives a combination of magical abilities, which come in the form of [[interaction token]]s. These abilities may vary widely in type and power level, but will always include the ability to raise corpses and [[intelligent undead]]. Depending on their [[sphere]]s (which stem from the spheres of the original [[deity]] that granted those secrets) secrets may also grant the ability to summon [[nightmare]]s, [[bogeymen]], and also the ability to "ghoulify" a living creature (in effect, giving it a [[syndrome]] that turns it into a [[thrall]], much like [[evil]] clouds). In addition, the intelligent undead will also be granted powers of their own, which may range from raising blisters to rotting nerves, to even being able to raise the dead themselves. The [[Advanced_world_generation#Number_of_Secret_Types|number of secrets]], and [[Advanced_world_generation#Allow_Divination.2C_Experiments.2C_and_Necromancy_types|which advanced powers]] they can convey, can be set in advanced world generation.

A single necromancer can learn multiple strains of necromancy by reading different sources. Ambitious necromancers tend to create more towers of the same strain via proxy, so you might find your world populated by a single strain. Usually it’s easier when you know which tower houses what kind of undead, or when you go after the source slabs via legends mode. Recovery is also easier when you have a sneaky squad of artifact raiders in fort mode.

=== Raise corpse/intelligent undead ===
Necromancers always have the [[interaction token|power]] to animate [[corpse]]s of organic creatures, which can include heads or any body parts which have a {{token|GRASP}} token or are attached to body parts which do ([[skin]], and [[hair]]). Corpses must be within the necromancer's line of sight – about 15 tiles – to be animated. Necromancers do this by gesturing; raising of the dead is reported in the [[reports|combat log]]{{verify|Does it in v50?}}:

{{gametext|[Necromancer] gestures!|3:1}}
{{gametext|[Corpse] shudders and begins to move!|3:1}}

Once a dead being is animated, it will become [[Adventure mode#Companions|enslaved]] to the necromancer and {{token|OPPOSED_TO_LIFE}}, regardless of previous allegiances. Unless the necromancer attacks their new undead minions, they will remain companions in Adventure mode. If you are a necromancer and attack one of your undead companions, all of them will turn neutral. Animated corpses are also neutral toward creatures that are {{token|NON_LIVING}}. Necromancers will also, occasionally, revive corpses as [[intelligent undead]] – in this case, the revived creature will retain most of its personality and existing loyalties. The name "undead" never quite appears as such in the game – instead, a procedurally-generated name like "lost butcher" or "risen zombie" is used. These undead have special powers but won't be enslaved or {{token|OPPOSED_TO_LIFE}}. In fortress mode, this means that intelligent undead raised by necromancer citizens of your fortress will stay citizens, if they were such when they died. It also means putting necromancers in military squads very risky, as they might accidentally revive your enemies with fun new powers. In adventure mode, if you attempt to raise someone you killed as an intelligent undead, they will remember you attacked and killed them, and will be hostile to you.

=== Summon [[nightmare]]s/[[bogeymen]] ===
Secrets aligned with the nightmare sphere will grant the ability to summon nightmares or bogeymen at a random location near the target to haunt it. In-game, necromancers with this ability will "call upon the night" to do so. These summons are large and freakish, but last a short amount of time. Nightmares are neutral toward creatures with {{token|NO_FEAR}}.

=== Ghoulification ===
Certain necromancers may also turn living creatures into [[infected ghoul]]s. The victims will be said to have "been infected with a contagious ghoulish condition". In adventure mode, you cannot make ghouls even if the announcement after reading a secret-containing book says you learned the power. Ghouls are opposed to life and attack/infect all living creatures who aren’t ghouls through bites. They still retain their sentience and can still bleed to death, but they maintain their gear and abilities, are immune to drowning, do not tire, and have extravision.

== In world generation ==
[[File:Secrets.png|thumb|Secrets of life and death.]]In world generation, necromancers may raise suspicions from their fellow citizens due to not aging, which can lead them to be expelled. This does not apply to necromancers living in goblin and elven civilizations since both goblins and elves are already immortal. Upon being expelled, the necromancer may form a grudge against the civilization and turn to [[villain]]y, and they will generally take refuge in a site of their own.

Necromancers who have a sufficient following may use their undead minions to build dark [[Tower (necromancy)|tower]]s, a task that requires at least 50 followers; younger necromancers may take over [[town]]s or camps instead. Necromancers will also raise a few [[intelligent undead]] as lieutenants. The building of a tower is carried out by the original necromancer of a group (the one who was given the slab) as apprentices join the group after the tower is built. Therefore, each necromancy group has one tower.

Necromancers can make zombies build their tower up a bit to increase the site's zombie cap. If the necromancer is at their zombie cap, they can still raise more zombies, but they are added to a wilderness population instead. The wilderness population can still be used for invasions, but they are also able to roam on to player forts in the region and also encounter adventurers.

Necromancers may conduct experiments on civilians and their [[domestic animal|livestock]], turning them into night creatures known as [[experiment]]s. Eventually, these experiments may leave the necromancer that made them and join other civilizations. In older worlds, many civilizations will likely have significant populations of escaped experiments. In adventure mode, it is not currently possible to create necromancer experiments.

Necromancers can also turn intelligent creatures into [[infected ghoul]]s. The ghouls can then be found around necromancer towers, but it is not currently possible to turn a creature into a ghoul in adventure mode.

Since the secrets of life and death are generated with a {{token|MUNDANE_RECORDING_POSSIBLE}} tag, necromancers will often write numerous [[book]]s during world generation, some concern the secrets of life and death (''blessed, or mayhap, cursed'') so that anyone who reads them will become a necromancer. Like the slab, all (''first-edition, not copies'') books, even those that do not contain secrets, are considered [[artifact]]s, and as such can be viewed in the "Codices and scrolls" list in [[legends|legends mode]]. Books containing the secrets of life and death will include any of the following words in their title: Annihilation, Bereavement, Death, Demise, Departure, Doom, Dying, Eternal Rest, Expiration, Extinction, Mortality, Immortality, Loss, Oblivion, Parting, Ruin, Ruination, Sleep, the Afterlife, the End, the Grave. (Note: "the End" can also turn up in mundane titles as well, typically as part of the phrase "after the end")

It is possible to ensure that a world is generated devoid of necromancers by setting the '''Number of Secret Types''' to '''0''' in [[advanced world generation]]. To the contrary, creating a world with a high number of secret types will increase the probability of there being multiple necromancers in the world. Since necromancers in unmodded games are usually humans or dwarves, having a large amount of neutral plains and/or mountains will further increase this probability, as it means that these civilizations will have more space to expand, and thus the amount of historical figures eligible for necromancy will increase.

Necromancer towers spread death-[[sphere|aligned]] [[evil]] regions around them. Destroying the tower and killing the necromancers in it (e.g. through a [[raid]] to raze the site) will reverse the evil-spreading.

Necromancer towers seem to be treated as a type of criminal government{{verify}} and as such function similarly to a regular civilization. Necromancers from opposing entities will attack each other, but amusingly, their undead armies will be neutral to everyone. Due to their ability to amass large armies quickly, necromancers are currently one of the most powerful geopolitical forces in the game, often declaring war on and destroying even powerful goblin civilizations in older worlds.

==Fortress mode==
===Sieges===
{{DFtext|The dead walk. Hide while you still can!|5:1}}
{{main|Siege#Necromancer sieges}}

Necromancers can lay [[siege]] to your fortress at any stage, including before the first [[immigration|migrant wave]], but only if their tower or town is within 20 tiles of your fortress. As such, picking a location within that distance of such a tower is regarded as a sure way to have an extra helping of [[fun]], and can be checked with {{k|tab}} during world gen. Note that if no tower is present during embark, no necromancer sieges will ever arrive (they may still show up as migrants and/or visitors), except if you [[mission|attack]] them. The sieges are structured much like normal sieges, except that the numbers tend to be much larger and much more disorganized, consisting not of individual squads but of masses of zombies coming from every side. The necromancer (or necromancers, if the former has an apprentice) may or may not arrive with the siege; if they do, and are captured or killed, you can expect to see no more activity from that particular tower. Undead are hostile to everything that breathes as well as to enemy necromancer hordes, meaning that other sieges or [[ambush]]es (or, indeed, caravans) that happen to arrive when a necromancer siege is milling about will always result in a battle. They may also send small squads or armies of experiments to attack you, sometimes stealthily acompanying their minions.

The easiest way to deal with a zombie siege is through the application of [[dwarven atom smasher|particle physics]] to grind the zombies into nothingness. Anything that obliterates any trace of the zombie will prevent raising; a drop into [[magma]] or [[semi-molten rock]] or encasing in [[obsidian]] are more creative alternatives. The jury is still out on whether slashing weapons are better or worse against necromancer sieges; although they tend to separate zombies into many parts, these parts can all be raised, leaving the question of whether the whole zombie or an arm here and a leg there is more dangerous. The undead that the necromancer(s) will bring will be sapient creatures, but if you killed some [[elephant]]s in a combat exercise and a necromancer happens upon them, the danger is magnified.

If you have a [[vampire]] and haven't walled them in yet, you can draft them and take a leisurely walk through town, as undead will ignore them (unless attacked), and the necromancer, has one arrived, is an easy, valid game for a clobbering.

Necromancers that are idle during a siege used to occasionally start [[campfire]]s.

===Ambushes===
Necromancers can arrive under cover, alone, in [[ambush]]es, and raise the dead without being seen. This is much more difficult, as you cannot see the necromancers in question, only their products. Potential necromancer ambushes can be dealt with by internalizing all corpse/remains stockpiles behind heavily trafficked areas, and posting sentries if possible.

===Residents/citizens===

Residents and citizens alike can also become necromancers if they happen to read material (such as [[codex|codexes]]/[[quire|quires]]) that contain the secrets of life and death. One way to acquire such materials is by trading for them from a [[caravan]].

Necromancers may occasionally arrive with their slab in hand. It is possible to add necromantic texts as part of your library, allowing you to turn your dwarves into necromancers once they read them. It is also possible to use the world map to send military squads to raid necromancer towers for the reading material contained in them. Dwarven necromancers no longer age, need to eat, or sleep, but they will also no longer need to drink, which can slow them down tremendously for it to be worth it. They ''may'' also raise the occasional corpse, which will often attack non-necromancers, while this might not sound like a big deal if you already have a fort full of necromancer dwarves, the real [[fun]] comes when diplomats, trade caravans, and outpost liaisons show up and if you have the dead walking among your populace. Also, be wary of sending necromancers out in melee, as intelligent undead invaders may remain hostile to your necromancers, who are ceaseless in bashing their heads in before killing them again in an endless, FPS-killing cycle.

Another way of getting necromantic reading material into your library is to "liberate" it in adventure mode, then drop the book off at a retired fortress. This will then be able to be picked up by your dwarves to read at their leisure.

A necromancer may raise the dead when threatened, which is fun when your battlefield is full of previously hostile sentients. This is why you should almost always manually control the necromancer in fortress mode.
There does not appear to be many disadvantages to having necromancer residents, however if you have too many during battle, they may raise too much undead and cause

===Applications===
Necromancers can be made useful by applying them in [[training]] schemes. Necromancers trapped in a room with line of sight to, say, the contents of the corpse stockpile, can be used to generate an infinite amount of hostile creatures to fight; when you get tired of the sport (or your dwarves start getting beat up), simply block their line of sight with a bridge and put down the remaining enemies, and your military can walk out of training with more experience.

Capturing necromancers is simple: build a tunnel near the necromancer, link floodgates or bridges within so that it can be sealed off, and then poke a hole into the surface. Assuming the necromancer was the nearest creature to where you opened the tunnel, they will be the first one in, and you can then seal off the tunnel and trap them inside. It's difficult to get the necromancer in there alone, without a few zombies following, but it shouldn't matter. [[Cage trap]]s will work too; however, caged necromancers do not appear to revive stuff. You must put necromancers on a restraint afterwards if you want them to be able to.

They can also be weaponized. Replace the militia training room with a room full of goblins, and fun will result. Upright spike [[trap]]s can "kill" the corpses after each use so that the resulting [[goblinite]] can be gathered, and the trap reused. Given enough time and enough bodies, such a trap can even best the [[HFS|circus]].

Much like [[vampire]]s, necromancers may seize control of a [[civilization]] and become its [[monarch|king/queen]]. In that case, the dwarf in question must be isolated from any corpses, as ''they'' may be friendly, but the zombies they tend to create... will be of the dwarven-arm-ripping variety. They should be either isolated from the dead with a [[burrow]], or applied to training/killing. Either way, necromancers are very [[fun]].

===Visitors or immigrants===

Necromancers may also casually arrive as [[visitor]]s or [[immigrant]]s in your fortress. When visiting, they won't attack you or attempt to raise any corpse they see – they came to relax, and just happen to know the secrets of life and death (the visitors are normally, though not necessarily always, schemeing something). They ''will'', however, use their powers in combat (for instance, if they enlist as mercenaries in your squads), but not necessarily mindless corpse-raising – they may revive one of your dwarves that just died as an [[intelligent undead]], who is loyal to your fortress and has extra powers. Necromancer immigrants can be put to work like any other immigrant dwarf - this may be bad for your meat supply when they practice their craft on the corpses produced by your hunters, however.

==Adventurer Mode==
In [[adventurer mode]], necromancers are most commonly found in towers {{Tile|I|5:0}}, but can very rarely be found in towns and camps, due to reasons explained earlier in this article. Towers will contain all the necromancers that are part of the necromancer group to whom the tower belongs, as well as a horde of undead. Towers require abundant human populations (low savagery, large tracts of neutral land) and a high number of secrets to be generated in world generation. Elves or goblins cannot become necromancers through normal means (bestowed by a death god) as their immortality means they cannot become obsessed with their own mortality. They can still learn the secrets of life and death by reading them, however.

It is possible to become a necromancer yourself in adventurer mode by [[reader|reading]] the slab or one of the books containing the secrets of life and death. Both will be found on the tables scattered around the tower, often amongst a pile of other, less useful books.

So, becoming an immortal being who doesn't need to worry about petty things like eating, drinking and sleeping and can also raise and control an undead army merely requires you to read some slab or book. Sounds simple, doesn't it? Unfortunately, it isn't. The tower is stuffed with undead monstrosities who would probably like nothing better than to tear your poor adventurer to shreds. If that isn't bad enough, the necromancers to whom the slab and books belong will raise their
servants each time you strike them down, if they can see the corpses.

So, what can we do to get at those secrets? Well, there are methods:

* '''1. Storm the tower'''
This is probably the most obvious solution, and is also the most likely to get inexperienced adventurers killed. Once you have become powerful enough, attack the tower head-on, preferably bringing with you an army of <s>meatshields</s> soldiers (who will likely get themselves killed, but will provide a distraction for you). It is advisable for you to lure the undead out of the tower first, away from the necromancers' gaze. This will make dealing with them far easier, and will give you a lot more space to dodge (or run if things get bad). If a necromancer is in the midst of the horde, try to move around so that the necromancer is exposed, then go in for the kill. Proceed until everyone (excluding yourself) is dead. Alternatively, just run into the tower and begin hitting everything like a madman. Eventually, either you or all of the tower's occupants will be dead. Then just take the slab/book and do what you will with it.

* '''2. Sneaking'''
Since [[ambusher|sneaking]] in the current version basically makes you invisible{{verify}}, and due to the fact that lighting barely exists yet, sneaking into the tower with a high enough skill and [[thrower|throwing]] stuff will allow you to kill everyone with minimal damage done to yourself. There is, however, the risk of being spotted, in which case you are advised to run away as quickly as you can. Alternatively, you could try to sneak around the tower and steal the slab/book without killing anything, but, because of the high density of enemies in a tower, it is extremely likely that you will be spotted, swarmed and killed.

* '''3. Being a Night Creature'''
Visiting the tower as a [[night creature]] [[Faction#Faction relative hostility|to whom undead are friendly]], such as a [[vampire]], [[undead|husk/thrall]] or, of course, a fellow necromancer, is by far the easiest way to obtain the slab/a book. Seriously. The undead are {{token|OPPOSED_TO_LIFE}}, but these night creatures are {{token|NOT_LIVING}}, so they will ignore you completely. Since undead will not attack necromancers, making a mad dash for the slab/book is also a viable option, but you will risk being killed/severely wounded before you get the chance to become a necromancer. If you are already one of these night creatures, you can just skip gleefully past the undead, read the slab/book and get out. You may also want to have a chat with the necromancers, who are actually quite friendly once you get to know them. In fact, night creatures who are shunned by society will often still be accepted by necromancers, who you can even ask for [[Adventure mode#Quests|quests]]! That is, of course, unless you are an enemy of their group, in which case they will attempt to kill you. Be advised that you cannot become a necromancer as an [[experiment]].

* '''4. Fire. A lot of fire.'''
The undead hordes will not cross small fires. The aspiring adventurer can outrun undead, leading them away from the tower, then run for the entrance. If there are more undead inside, run away. Repeat this until the undead have emptied from the tower, outrunning them and herding them. Run to the tower entrance and light fires around it, sealing them out. Take your time, enjoy the books, maybe mess with a necromancer. When you're ready to leave, scale the wall or jump over the fire. Bonus points: completely enclose the undead in a fire circle they cannot escape from. Side note: while running from undead, igniting the grass in clever places will slow them down even further.

* '''5. Vampire recruit'''
Another strategy, which may not always be available but can work well, is recruiting a vampire. Undead creatures and vampires won't bother each other, but the vampire will attack any hostile necromancers present. Once the necromancers are all dead, you will be left with the far simpler task of killing the undead without having to worry about any of the corpses reanimating.

* '''6. Leapfrog'''
{{k|j}}umping is an often overlooked but fairly powerful combat tool, especially against large hordes of very stupid zombies. Huge numbers have no impact of how effective jumping is, and zombies don't really try all that hard to get out of your way. It's fairly easy to just leap through entire hordes of zombies until you get to the tower proper, at which point you can just dash up some stairs and wait a bit for the zombies to forget you. The actual sentient inhabitants of the tower are strangely hospitable (even to the living) and don't seem to mind you that much, although some experiments seem to turn aggressive if you try talking to them. Once you've found the secret the zombies have probably forgotten about you and will ignore you now that you're also a night creature, and any that still remember you can be dispatched easily without causing any more trouble.

===Playing as a necromancer===

As a necromancer, you:

*don't need to eat or drink, so you don't need to worry about running out of food/water and can get rid of the extra weight such objects produce.
*don't need to sleep, and can't get tired or exhausted, so you'll never again feel the negative effects of these statuses.
*are immortal, as necromancers do not age. This will ensure that your adventurer will not die of old age if your world goes on until its natural {{token|MAXAGE}} is reached (such as if you retire an adventurer and play fortress mode for a while).
*can reanimate corpses to create undead companions. This can be done as many times as you want, with a small [[time]] limit between each reanimation, and only requires a corpse/body part.

Becoming a necromancer also freezes your physical [[attribute]]s so that they cannot rust or be increased. Therefore, it might be wise to raise them to a high level before becoming a necromancer. (However, this does not seem to be happening in the current version, including 0.47.05, probably due to a bug, or it's a design choice. Because let's be honest, just because you're a necromancer doesn't mean you can't learn new things, right?)

==== Reanimating dead creatures ====
1.Open the actions menu by pressing {{k|x}}. 
2.Press {{k|p}} or scroll to "acquired power". 
3.Select ({{k|→}} {{k|Enter}}) "Animate corpse". 
4.Now move the cursor onto the corpse(s) you wish to animate, press the letter that they are represented by on the items screen (such as {{k|a}}) and press {{k|Enter}}. Note that you can animate more than one corpse at a time, and that you can also animate corpses that are in your inventory. 
[[File:Animatecorpsemenu.jpeg]]

It is worth noting that you can only raise corpses with intact heads or grasping body parts (hands). That is, if the creature's head and hands explodes into gore, collapses into gore, or otherwise is pulped via damage to the head or torso, then that corpse cannot be raised. It is still possible, however, to raise a corpse that has had its head completely severed. The arms and head of a single individual can also be raised as different zombies, granted they are separated properly to begin with.

Besides acting as reusable and easily-replenishable soldiers, undead hold potential usage as training dummies for weapons and wrestling skills and can be used to build for you, including animated body parts. A crafty adventurer may cut the limbs off their undead slaves and reanimate them, counting as an additional companion, and reducing build time. However, while a necromancer can still be friendly to mortals, its minions will attack everything living in sight.

For combat, because raised dead lose all their skills as well as the ability to learn, only the attributes and size of the creature at the time of their death are important.

As in fortress mode, necromancer companions and NPCs will automatically raise the dead when in the heat of battle. To counter this in adventure combat, mangle a sentient being using a blunt weapon so they can never be raised, or butcher them once and mangle the raised skin. Butchering doesn’t take time, so it doesn’t hurt to immediately butcher someone you killed.

Alternatively, you can destroy someone’s soul by raising a corpse as a non-intelligent undead. This rewrites their faction and soul traits, and any subsequent resurrection will raise them as a soulless creature loyal to you. This is very useful when you are in mass combat.

Be warned that raising a corpse in front of a lot of people who are already in combat will cause a lag spike.

==[[Object testing arena]]==
Necromancy can be assigned to any creature by simply changing the "effect" of the spawned creature to "necromancer" by pressing {{k|u}}. As expected, necromancers will reanimate dead creatures and severed body parts, though, depending on which team the player has set for the spawned necromancer and that of any creature that died that said necromancer chose to resurrect, strange behaviors can occur.

For example, a necromancer revives the body parts of a dead, dismembered dwarf in an effort to aid itself in fighting, but because the dwarf was on the "independent" team (or just a different one from the necromancer), the body parts just end up attacking the necromancer that raised them. So said necromancer may end up killing what it resurrected, only to keep resurrecting what it just killed to fight it again, which can happen over and over in an endless loop - all due to the clashing of how the arena handles teams/sides and the necromancer's natural AI in raising the dead to help itself.

==Modding==
{{mod}}
It is entirely possible to create your own unique secret class, with powers ranging from material emission (fireballs, firebreath, syndrome-inducing materials) to turning corpses into enthralled creatures, such as giant lions.
This can be accomplished by creating an "interaction_secretnamehere" raw file with the appropriate tokens.

It is also possible to improve the number of necromancers, and therefore towers, by permitting more races to have necromancers. This can be done by adding mortality to races that are not mortal ([[Elf|Elves]] and [[Goblin]]s) with the {{token|MAXAGE}} token, or by adding intelligence to other creature tokens. Even having the ability to pray seems to add yet more original necromancers (that have discovered the secret by worshiping). This could be done by giving religion to races that don't have it, like goblins (see some digging on these subjects here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=161352.0, http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=154533.0). It also seems that having a DEATH [[Entity_token#RELIGION_SPHERE|sphere]] in the religion of the race vastly improves the ability to discover the secret of life and death.

Example:
Modded goblin race with:
<nowiki>
[RELIGION:PANTHEON]
[RELIGION_SPHERE:DEATH]
</nowiki>
in entity_default and:[MAXAGE:200:250] in creature_standard, will generate a lot of tower-building necromancers.

Doing this for all races with massive population amounts in your world will ensure that towers, and, therefore, undead, are present in large numbers for more [[fun]].

{{gamedata|title=Example raws (as extracted from world.dat in version 0.47.04)|
[INTERACTION:SECRET_11]
[GENERATED]
[I_SOURCE:SECRET]
[IS_NAME:the secrets of life and death]
[IS_SPHERE:DEATH]
[IS_SPHERE:NIGHTMARES]
[IS_SECRET_GOAL:IMMORTALITY]
[IS_SECRET:SUPERNATURAL_LEARNING_POSSIBLE]
[IS_SECRET:MUNDANE_RESEARCH_POSSIBLE]
[IS_SECRET:MUNDANE_TEACHING_POSSIBLE]
[IS_SECRET:MUNDANE_RECORDING_POSSIBLE:objects/text/book_instruction.txt:objects/text/secret_death.txt]
[I_TARGET:A:CREATURE]
[IT_LOCATION:CONTEXT_CREATURE]
[IT_REQUIRES:MORTAL]
[IT_REQUIRES:CAN_LEARN]
[IT_REQUIRES:CAN_SPEAK]
[I_EFFECT:ADD_SYNDROME]
[IE_TARGET:A]
[IE_IMMEDIATE]
[SYNDROME]
[SYN_CONCENTRATION_ADDED:1000:0]
[CE_DISPLAY_TILE:TILE:165:5:0:1:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CE_DISPLAY_NAME:NAME:necromancer:necromancers:necromantic:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CE_ADD_TAG:NOEXERT:NO_AGING:NO_EAT:NO_DRINK:NO_SLEEP:NO_PHYS_ATT_GAIN:NO_PHYS_ATT_RUST:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CE_CHANGE_PERSONALITY:FACET:ANXIETY_PROPENSITY:50:FACET:TRUST:-50:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CE_CAN_DO_INTERACTION:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Animate corpse]
[CDI:INTERACTION:SECRET_ANIMATE_11]
[CDI:TARGET:A:LINE_OF_SIGHT]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:A:10]
[CDI:VERB:gesture:gestures:NA]
[CDI:TARGET_VERB:shudder and begin to move:shudders and begins to move]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:10]
[CE_CAN_DO_INTERACTION:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Raise damned butcher]
[CDI:INTERACTION:SECRET_UNDEAD_RES_11]
[CDI:TARGET:A:LINE_OF_SIGHT]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:A:10]
[CDI:VERB:gesture:gestures:NA]
[CDI:TARGET_VERB:shudder and begin to move:shudders and begins to move]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:10]
[CE_CAN_DO_INTERACTION:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Summon bogeymen]
[CDI:INTERACTION:SECRET_SUMMON_B_11]
[CDI:VERB:call upon the night:calls upon the night:NA]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:100]
[CE_CAN_DO_INTERACTION:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Summon nightmare]
[CDI:INTERACTION:SECRET_SUMMON_N_11]
[CDI:VERB:call upon the night:calls upon the night:NA]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:12000]
[CE_CAN_DO_INTERACTION:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Create ghoul]
[CDI:INTERACTION:SECRET_GHOUL_11]

[INTERACTION:SECRET_ANIMATE_11]
[GENERATED]
[I_TARGET:A:CORPSE]
[IT_LOCATION:CONTEXT_ITEM]
[IT_AFFECTED_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
[IT_REQUIRES:FIT_FOR_ANIMATION]
[IT_FORBIDDEN:NOT_LIVING]
[IT_MANUAL_INPUT:corpses]
[I_EFFECT:ANIMATE]
[IE_TARGET:A]
[IE_IMMEDIATE]
[SYNDROME]
[SYN_CONCENTRATION_ADDED:1000:0]
[CE_FLASH_TILE:TILE:165:3:0:0:FREQUENCY:2000:1000:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CE_PHYS_ATT_CHANGE:STRENGTH:130:0:TOUGHNESS:300:1000:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CE_SPEED_CHANGE:SPEED_PERC:60:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CE_ADD_TAG:NO_AGING:NOT_LIVING:OPPOSED_TO_LIFE:EXTRAVISION:NOEXERT:NOPAIN:NOBREATHE:NOSTUN:NONAUSEA:NO_DIZZINESS:NO_FEVERS:NOEMOTION:PARALYZEIMMUNE:NOFEAR:NO_EAT:NO_DRINK:NO_SLEEP:NO_PHYS_ATT_GAIN:NO_PHYS_ATT_RUST:NOTHOUGHT:NO_THOUGHT_CENTER_FOR_MOVEMENT:NO_CONNECTIONS_FOR_MOVEMENT:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CE_REMOVE_TAG:HAS_BLOOD:TRANCES:MISCHIEVOUS:START:0:ABRUPT]

[INTERACTION:SECRET_UNDEAD_RAISE_11]
[GENERATED]
[I_TARGET:A:CORPSE]
[IT_LOCATION:CONTEXT_ITEM]
[IT_AFFECTED_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
[IT_REQUIRES:FIT_FOR_RESURRECTION]
[IT_REQUIRES:CAN_LEARN]
[IT_FORBIDDEN:NOT_LIVING]
[IT_MANUAL_INPUT:corpses]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:WERECURSE]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:VAMPCURSE]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:DISTURBANCE_CURSE]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:RAISED_UNDEAD]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:RAISED_GHOST]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:GHOUL]
[I_EFFECT:RESURRECT]
[IE_TARGET:A]
[IE_IMMEDIATE]
[SYNDROME]
[SYN_CONCENTRATION_ADDED:1000:0]
[SYN_CLASS:RAISED_UNDEAD]
[CE_DISPLAY_TILE:TILE:165:3:0:1:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CE_DISPLAY_NAME:NAME:damned butcher:damned butchers:damned butcher:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CE_PHYS_ATT_CHANGE:STRENGTH:200:1000:TOUGHNESS:200:1000:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CE_ADD_TAG:NO_AGING:NOT_LIVING:STERILE:EXTRAVISION:NOEXERT:NOPAIN:NOBREATHE:NOSTUN:NONAUSEA:NO_DIZZINESS:NO_FEVERS:NOEMOTION:PARALYZEIMMUNE:NOFEAR:NO_EAT:NO_DRINK:NO_SLEEP:NO_PHYS_ATT_GAIN:NO_PHYS_ATT_RUST:NOTHOUGHT:NO_THOUGHT_CENTER_FOR_MOVEMENT:NO_CONNECTIONS_FOR_MOVEMENT:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CE_REMOVE_TAG:HAS_BLOOD:TRANCES:MISCHIEVOUS:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CE_CAN_DO_INTERACTION:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Propel away]
[CDI:INTERACTION:SECRET_RES_POWER_11_1]
[CDI:TARGET:B:LINE_OF_SIGHT]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:B:25]
[CDI:BP_REQUIRED:BY_TYPE:GRASP]
[CDI:USAGE_HINT:ATTACK]
[CDI:VERB:make a flicking motion:makes a flicking motion:NA]
[CDI:MAX_TARGET_NUMBER:B:1]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:50]

[INTERACTION:SECRET_RES_POWER_11_1]
[GENERATED]
[I_TARGET:A:LOCATION]
[IT_LOCATION:CONTEXT_LOCATION]
[I_TARGET:B:CREATURE]
[IT_LOCATION:CONTEXT_CREATURE]
[IT_MANUAL_INPUT:target]
[I_EFFECT:PROPEL_UNIT]
[IE_PROPEL_FORCE:100000]
[IE_TARGET:A]
[IE_TARGET:B]
[IE_IMMEDIATE]

[INTERACTION:SECRET_SUMMON_B_11]
[GENERATED]
[I_TARGET:A:LOCATION]
[IT_LOCATION:CONTEXT_LOCATION]
[I_TARGET:B:LOCATION]
[IT_LOCATION:RANDOM_NEARBY_LOCATION:A:5]
[I_EFFECT:SUMMON_UNIT]
[IE_TARGET:B]
[IE_IMMEDIATE]
[IE_CREATURE_CASTE_FLAG:NIGHT_CREATURE_BOGEYMAN]
[IE_TIME_RANGE:200:300]

[INTERACTION:SECRET_SUMMON_N_11]
[GENERATED]
[I_TARGET:A:LOCATION]
[IT_LOCATION:CONTEXT_LOCATION]
[I_TARGET:B:LOCATION]
[IT_LOCATION:RANDOM_NEARBY_LOCATION:A:5]
[I_EFFECT:SUMMON_UNIT]
[IE_TARGET:B]
[IE_IMMEDIATE]
[IE_CREATURE_CASTE_FLAG:NIGHT_CREATURE_NIGHTMARE]
[IE_TIME_RANGE:200:300]

[INTERACTION:SECRET_GHOUL_11]
[GENERATED]
[EXPERIMENT_ONLY]
[I_SOURCE:EXPERIMENT]
[IS_HIST_STRING_1: infected ]
[IS_HIST_STRING_2: with a contagious ghoulish condition]
[IS_TRIGGER_STRING_SECOND:have]
[IS_TRIGGER_STRING_THIRD:has]
[IS_TRIGGER_STRING:been infected with a contagious ghoulish condition]
[I_SOURCE:ATTACK]
[IS_HIST_STRING_1: bit ]
[IS_HIST_STRING_2:, passing on the ghoulish condition]
[I_TARGET:A:CREATURE]
[IT_LOCATION:CONTEXT_CREATURE]
[IT_AFFECTED_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
[IT_FORBIDDEN:NOT_LIVING]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:WERECURSE]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:VAMPCURSE]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:DISTURBANCE_CURSE]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:RAISED_UNDEAD]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:RAISED_GHOST]
[IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS:GHOUL]
[IT_MANUAL_INPUT:victim]
[I_EFFECT:ADD_SYNDROME]
[IE_TARGET:A]
[SYNDROME]
[SYN_CONCENTRATION_ADDED:1000:0]
[SYN_CLASS:GHOUL]
[CE_FLASH_TILE:TILE:165:4:0:1:FREQUENCY:2000:1000:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CE_DISPLAY_NAME:NAME:diseased ghoul:diseased ghouls:diseased ghoul:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CE_ADD_TAG:NO_AGING:NOT_LIVING:OPPOSED_TO_LIFE:EXTRAVISION:NOEXERT:NOPAIN:NOBREATHE:NOSTUN:NONAUSEA:NO_DIZZINESS:NO_FEVERS:NOEMOTION:PARALYZEIMMUNE:NOFEAR:NO_EAT:NO_DRINK:NO_SLEEP:NO_PHYS_ATT_GAIN:NO_PHYS_ATT_RUST:NOTHOUGHT:NO_THOUGHT_CENTER_FOR_MOVEMENT:NO_CONNECTIONS_FOR_MOVEMENT:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CE_REMOVE_TAG:TRANCES:MISCHIEVOUS:START:0:ABRUPT]
[CE_SPECIAL_ATTACK_INTERACTION:INTERACTION:SECRET_GHOUL_11:BP:BY_CATEGORY:MOUTH:BP:BY_CATEGORY:TOOTH:START:0:ABRUPT]

}}
{{Creatures}}
{{category|humanoids}}

[[ru:Necromancer]]

Clutter

2023-01-02T14:56:32Z

Halavus:

{{verify}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{av}}
'''Clutter''' will occur in [[workshop]]s when they become full of goods that are not hauled away to stockpiles. <s>A workshop that is cluttered will display (CLT)</s> There is currently no IG indication when a workshop gets cluttered. The list of items in the workshop screen will show you what items are cluttering the workshop.

Dwarves working in cluttered workshops will work more slowly: even the lowest level of clutter doubles the time a workshop task takes. Each successive level of clutter increases the multiplier by one, so tasks performed in a completely cluttered workshop will take ten times as long.

== Clutter levels==
(currently not shown in game, but values are probably still correct) {{verify}}

The amount of clutter generated by a single item is determined by its base [[weight]]. All items generate a minimum of 1200 units of clutter.

{| style="margin: 0 auto; text-align: center; border-spacing: 4px"
|+ style="margin: 0 auto" | '''Levels of Clutter'''
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|0:0:1}}
|   90,000 units
| : 2× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|7:0:0}}
| 120,000 units
| : 3× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|7:0:1}}
| 150,000 units
| : 4× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|6:0:1}}
| 180,000 units
| : 5× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|4:0:0}}
| 210,000 units
| : 6× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|4:0:1}}
| 240,000 units
| : 7× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|5:0:1}}
| 270,000 units
| : 8× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|*CLT*|5:0:1}}
| 300,000 units
| : 9× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|☼CLT☼|5:0:1}}
| 330,000 units
| : 10× slower
|}

== Occurrence ==
During normal play, it is unlikely to ever observe workshop clutter outside of the [[butcher's shop]] - even [[slab]]s and [[statue]]s, the largest finished goods, will only clutter a mason's workshop to the ''first'' level once there are 15 of them inside and waiting for storage.

== Remedy ==
To remedy clutter, be sure to have enough stockpile space of the appropriate kind (using [[bin|bins]] will increase stockpile efficiency), and employ enough dwarves with the appropriate [[hauling]] jobs (food/furniture/item/refuse/etc.) to get rid of the junk. The dwarf working at the workshop could also have the relevant hauling job enabled, pausing from time to time to move around goods. In case of inexperienced cooks, order only one or two meals at a time, and check clutter before issuing new orders. An alternate clutter control method is to build new workshops, optionally destroying the old ones (from the {{k|q}} or {{k|t}} menu).

== Benefits ==
There is one upside to clutter, depending on your viewpoint and playstyle. As a workshop's production is slowed, so is their consumption of raw materials and their output if there is little demand. If there is sudden spike of demand, the workshop is easily uncluttered and can work at full speed. The benefit of this is that tasks can be left in repeat mode with no supervision and will not produce much unwanted extras or consume more resources than needed.

A [[still]], for example, can eventually get to the rate where dwarves consume booze at same speed as the cluttered workshops produce it.

[[Wood furnace|Wood furnaces]] similarly will eventually be brought to a point where they produce fuel at same rate as other workshops consume it.

If [[stockpile|stockpiles]] are used with this method, they must all be kept completely full, so that the workshop remains cluttered. Your stockpile will become a sort of buffer to compensate for large spikes in demand. The larger your booze stockpile is, the larger of a spike in demand it can compensate for when, say, a tantrum spiral erupts.

== Bugs ==

* [[Cook]]ing with [[egg]]s creates extreme [[kitchen]] clutter. {{Bug|3994}}

== Production Equilibrium ==
{{Template:D for dwarf}}
The unique dwarven economic system, which has been called 'confusing' at best and 'insane' at worst by most other species, has at least one benefit. The fact that items are rarely moved from where they were made until needed leads to much clutter around workshops. As the clutter builds and makes it more difficult to move around the workshop, production slows more and more. If demand suddenly spikes, the clutter is removed and production rises again. Some scientists see this as an instinctual supply and demand device. Others see it as dumb luck.

{{Translation
| dwarven = om
| elvish = ifeta
| goblin = ozma
| human = rufo
}}

{{Workshops}}
{{Category|Workshops}}
[[ru:Clutter]]

Clutter

2023-01-02T14:56:09Z

Halavus: /* Clutter levels (currently not shown in game, but values are probably still correct) {{verify}} */

{{verify}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{av}}
'''Clutter''' will occur in [[workshop]]s when they become full of goods that are not hauled away to stockpiles. <s>A workshop that is cluttered will display (CLT)</s> There is currently no IG indication when a workshop gets cluttered. The list of items in the workshop screen will show you what items are cluttering the workshop.

Dwarves working in cluttered workshops will work more slowly: even the lowest level of clutter doubles the time a workshop task takes. Each successive level of clutter increases the multiplier by one, so tasks performed in a completely cluttered workshop will take ten times as long.

== Clutter levels==
(currently not shown in game, but values are probably still correct) {{verify}}
The amount of clutter generated by a single item is determined by its base [[weight]]. All items generate a minimum of 1200 units of clutter.

{| style="margin: 0 auto; text-align: center; border-spacing: 4px"
|+ style="margin: 0 auto" | '''Levels of Clutter'''
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|0:0:1}}
|   90,000 units
| : 2× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|7:0:0}}
| 120,000 units
| : 3× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|7:0:1}}
| 150,000 units
| : 4× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|6:0:1}}
| 180,000 units
| : 5× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|4:0:0}}
| 210,000 units
| : 6× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|4:0:1}}
| 240,000 units
| : 7× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|5:0:1}}
| 270,000 units
| : 8× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|*CLT*|5:0:1}}
| 300,000 units
| : 9× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|☼CLT☼|5:0:1}}
| 330,000 units
| : 10× slower
|}

== Occurrence ==
During normal play, it is unlikely to ever observe workshop clutter outside of the [[butcher's shop]] - even [[slab]]s and [[statue]]s, the largest finished goods, will only clutter a mason's workshop to the ''first'' level once there are 15 of them inside and waiting for storage.

== Remedy ==
To remedy clutter, be sure to have enough stockpile space of the appropriate kind (using [[bin|bins]] will increase stockpile efficiency), and employ enough dwarves with the appropriate [[hauling]] jobs (food/furniture/item/refuse/etc.) to get rid of the junk. The dwarf working at the workshop could also have the relevant hauling job enabled, pausing from time to time to move around goods. In case of inexperienced cooks, order only one or two meals at a time, and check clutter before issuing new orders. An alternate clutter control method is to build new workshops, optionally destroying the old ones (from the {{k|q}} or {{k|t}} menu).

== Benefits ==
There is one upside to clutter, depending on your viewpoint and playstyle. As a workshop's production is slowed, so is their consumption of raw materials and their output if there is little demand. If there is sudden spike of demand, the workshop is easily uncluttered and can work at full speed. The benefit of this is that tasks can be left in repeat mode with no supervision and will not produce much unwanted extras or consume more resources than needed.

A [[still]], for example, can eventually get to the rate where dwarves consume booze at same speed as the cluttered workshops produce it.

[[Wood furnace|Wood furnaces]] similarly will eventually be brought to a point where they produce fuel at same rate as other workshops consume it.

If [[stockpile|stockpiles]] are used with this method, they must all be kept completely full, so that the workshop remains cluttered. Your stockpile will become a sort of buffer to compensate for large spikes in demand. The larger your booze stockpile is, the larger of a spike in demand it can compensate for when, say, a tantrum spiral erupts.

== Bugs ==

* [[Cook]]ing with [[egg]]s creates extreme [[kitchen]] clutter. {{Bug|3994}}

== Production Equilibrium ==
{{Template:D for dwarf}}
The unique dwarven economic system, which has been called 'confusing' at best and 'insane' at worst by most other species, has at least one benefit. The fact that items are rarely moved from where they were made until needed leads to much clutter around workshops. As the clutter builds and makes it more difficult to move around the workshop, production slows more and more. If demand suddenly spikes, the clutter is removed and production rises again. Some scientists see this as an instinctual supply and demand device. Others see it as dumb luck.

{{Translation
| dwarven = om
| elvish = ifeta
| goblin = ozma
| human = rufo
}}

{{Workshops}}
{{Category|Workshops}}
[[ru:Clutter]]

Clutter

2023-01-02T14:55:29Z

Halavus: Cluttering is still a thing but the game doesn't tell you...

{{verify}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{av}}
'''Clutter''' will occur in [[workshop]]s when they become full of goods that are not hauled away to stockpiles. <s>A workshop that is cluttered will display (CLT)</s> There is currently no IG indication when a workshop gets cluttered. The list of items in the workshop screen will show you what items are cluttering the workshop.

Dwarves working in cluttered workshops will work more slowly: even the lowest level of clutter doubles the time a workshop task takes. Each successive level of clutter increases the multiplier by one, so tasks performed in a completely cluttered workshop will take ten times as long.

== Clutter levels (currently not shown in game, but values are probably still correct) {{verify}}==
The amount of clutter generated by a single item is determined by its base [[weight]]. All items generate a minimum of 1200 units of clutter.

{| style="margin: 0 auto; text-align: center; border-spacing: 4px"
|+ style="margin: 0 auto" | '''Levels of Clutter'''
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|0:0:1}}
|   90,000 units
| : 2× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|7:0:0}}
| 120,000 units
| : 3× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|7:0:1}}
| 150,000 units
| : 4× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|6:0:1}}
| 180,000 units
| : 5× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|4:0:0}}
| 210,000 units
| : 6× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|4:0:1}}
| 240,000 units
| : 7× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|(CLT)|5:0:1}}
| 270,000 units
| : 8× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|*CLT*|5:0:1}}
| 300,000 units
| : 9× slower
|-
! {{Raw Tile|☼CLT☼|5:0:1}}
| 330,000 units
| : 10× slower
|}

== Occurrence ==
During normal play, it is unlikely to ever observe workshop clutter outside of the [[butcher's shop]] - even [[slab]]s and [[statue]]s, the largest finished goods, will only clutter a mason's workshop to the ''first'' level once there are 15 of them inside and waiting for storage.

== Remedy ==
To remedy clutter, be sure to have enough stockpile space of the appropriate kind (using [[bin|bins]] will increase stockpile efficiency), and employ enough dwarves with the appropriate [[hauling]] jobs (food/furniture/item/refuse/etc.) to get rid of the junk. The dwarf working at the workshop could also have the relevant hauling job enabled, pausing from time to time to move around goods. In case of inexperienced cooks, order only one or two meals at a time, and check clutter before issuing new orders. An alternate clutter control method is to build new workshops, optionally destroying the old ones (from the {{k|q}} or {{k|t}} menu).

== Benefits ==
There is one upside to clutter, depending on your viewpoint and playstyle. As a workshop's production is slowed, so is their consumption of raw materials and their output if there is little demand. If there is sudden spike of demand, the workshop is easily uncluttered and can work at full speed. The benefit of this is that tasks can be left in repeat mode with no supervision and will not produce much unwanted extras or consume more resources than needed.

A [[still]], for example, can eventually get to the rate where dwarves consume booze at same speed as the cluttered workshops produce it.

[[Wood furnace|Wood furnaces]] similarly will eventually be brought to a point where they produce fuel at same rate as other workshops consume it.

If [[stockpile|stockpiles]] are used with this method, they must all be kept completely full, so that the workshop remains cluttered. Your stockpile will become a sort of buffer to compensate for large spikes in demand. The larger your booze stockpile is, the larger of a spike in demand it can compensate for when, say, a tantrum spiral erupts.

== Bugs ==

* [[Cook]]ing with [[egg]]s creates extreme [[kitchen]] clutter. {{Bug|3994}}

== Production Equilibrium ==
{{Template:D for dwarf}}
The unique dwarven economic system, which has been called 'confusing' at best and 'insane' at worst by most other species, has at least one benefit. The fact that items are rarely moved from where they were made until needed leads to much clutter around workshops. As the clutter builds and makes it more difficult to move around the workshop, production slows more and more. If demand suddenly spikes, the clutter is removed and production rises again. Some scientists see this as an instinctual supply and demand device. Others see it as dumb luck.

{{Translation
| dwarven = om
| elvish = ifeta
| goblin = ozma
| human = rufo
}}

{{Workshops}}
{{Category|Workshops}}
[[ru:Clutter]]

Talk:Clutter

2023-01-02T13:48:21Z

Halavus:

<s>Is Clutter still a thing in 0.50 ?</s> --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 17:27, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
: I managed to test it. Cluttering is still affecting work speed, but the workshop doesn't mention it (CLT) anywhere!

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Versions

2023-01-02T13:40:09Z

Halavus: /* Removed features & concepts */ answers

{{archive|
# [[DF Talk:Versions/Archive 1|Page 1]]}}

== Version 0.31.19 starts a new DF generation? ==

My reading of Toady's comments on the release of 0.31.19 is that it came out basically because he felt it would take too long to get DF all the way to 0.32. With the ore changes, the sitefinder changes, the addition of grazing and several different industries, there's a lot of changes between 31.18 and 31.19. So I'm thinking it might be a good idea to call it the first release of DF2011 - and what we refer to as "DF2010" would then become 0.31.18.

Thoughts? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:06, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

==Revisiting Redirects==

I wasn't around when the redirect policy was created, and I'm having trouble understanding the rationale. The example claims that linking [[Main:Cheese]] to [[cv:Cheese maker]] is problematic...but mainspace only ever redirects to the current version. If the best target in the current version is cheese maker, why not link to it directly? (It's not, at least for Cheese, since [[DF2012:Cheese]] exists now.) The explanation seems to be claiming that 40d articles that link to Cheese will follow the Mainspace link--but that hasn't been the case for a long while now. Articles in 40d automatically link against other articles in 40d, so that version remains internally consistent no matter where mainspace links to in the current version. For a current example, what do we gain by linking [[Main:Mead]] to [[cv:Mead]] and linking [[DF2012:Mead]] to [[DF2012:Alcohol]]?

If this really is just an outdated procedure, I recommend we drop the mummery and allow mainspace to link to cv:(best target). Double redirects ''may'' work (sometimes, but [[Main:Mead]] demonstrates a common problem where automatic redirection fails), but if they are unnecessary I think they should be avoided, partly because of problems like [[Main:Mead]] and partly because of the effort required to protect double redirects from users who believe they are problematic.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:16, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

:I was just thinking that. I'm currently attempting to write a basic extension to eliminate the need for mainspace redirects entirely, although Mediawiki's class structure may make this more difficult than I had hoped (the only method I've found for resolving redirects takes the ''article text'' instead of a title, e.g. "#REDIRECT ..."). I do agree that the current situation with redirects isn't ideal, so I'm hoping this will work better (once I get it to work). --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:42, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Okay, that wasn't quite as clear as I meant it to be. In general, I think this is a tricky situation. Mediawiki wasn't designed to have five content namespaces, and certainly not chains of redirects between them. The problem that was pointed out in the [[DF:REDIR|policy]] is the fact that with:
Main:Foo -> cv:Bar
pages in the cv: namespace can't use [[<nowiki/>foo]], since the namespace links modification causes it to be treated as [[<nowiki/>cv:foo]] instead, which doesn't exist. The current suggested solution is this:
Main:Foo -> cv:Foo -> cv:Bar
This fixes the problem of [[<nowiki/>foo]] not working on cv pages, but creates issues with double redirects not always working. Another solution, which is more intuitive to new editors, is:
Main:Foo -> cv:Bar
cv:Foo -> cv:Bar
Both require creating two redirects. The first method has the advantage of ''ensuring'' that the cv redirect exists (otherwise, main:foo would be a redlink), while the second has the advantage of working more reliably in a couple cases.

What I'm trying to do is make main:Foo "jump" to cv:Foo when cv:foo exists, ''even if main:foo doesn't exist'' (basically it would treat all mainspace pages as redirects to cv pages, but only if the cv page exists and not the mainspace page). I had main:Bar jumping to cv:Bar fine, but if cv:Foo redirected to cv:Bar, accessing main:Foo would mysteriously stop at cv:Foo even if I increased the redirect limit. What I'm trying to do now is follow the redirects internally, without relying on Mediawiki to do it automatically - unfortunately, that has proved to be harder than I had hoped (and I sent my web server into an infinite loop while trying). I will try to work on this some more when I get a chance, although I'm not sure when that'll be yet :(. For now, feel free to fix broken double mainspace redirects as necessary, as long as redirects in the DF2012 namespace stay pointing to the right page (and new mainspace redirects get added in the DF2012 namespace too). --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:21, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

:You're treating cv like a namespace--it's not. It is simply shorthand for "fill in the current version here". [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Briess&diff=182404&oldid=181281 As I discovered a long time ago on a server not far away], linking from Main:Foo to cv:Foo tends to break redirection chains. If, instead of linking to cv:Foo, you link to DF2012:Foo, it might just work. It would, of course, be better if your patch could evaluate cv itself, but even if you have to hardcode the current version it's a single point of maintenance that requires update very infrequently. (For that matter, we could probably dispense with the cv hack entirely and just have a bot update mainspace links from DF2012 to DF201X when we switch to a new version.)--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:05, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
::I know cv isn't a namespace - I was just trying to avoid future confusion when the DF2012 namespace changes. It's interesting that changing "cv" to "DF2012" fixes some broken redirects, although I've found that simply making an edit to a broken redirect can usually fix it as well. I've actually had the most problems with double redirects when the second one (in the DF2012 namespace) doesn't use the DF2012 prefix (e.g. main:Foo containing <nowiki>[[cv:Foo]] and DF2012:Foo containing [[Bar]]</nowiki>). I'd rather keep the cv alias even if it isn't necessary for mainspace redirects when I get the patch to work, since it makes it easier to refer to the current version of the page (for example, several MDF articles contain links to a vanilla page for things that don't change in the mod).
::Also, using aliases like "cv" is supported by Mediawiki; in fact, several WMF wikis use them (for example, "[[wikipedia:WP:Redirects|WP:Redirects]]" on Wikipedia). It's quite likely that Mediawiki isn't processing double redirects using aliases correctly, though, since that's uncommon on most wikis. --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:35, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

In light of the lack of support for the current redirect policy, I propose we replace the current redirect section with:

:Mainspace article pages should use the cv: alias when redirecting to a versioned page, which will automatically update the link when a new version is released. For example, page "Main:Foo" should redirect to page "cv:Bar" (where "Bar" is the page that best describes the topic Foo in the current version).

:Pages in mainspace should only redirect to an older versioned page if that content no longer exists in the current version of the game (e.g. [[Cave river]], [[Chunk]]). In these cases the cv: alias cannot be used.

:Pages inside a versioned namespace should not use the cv: alias. Instead, they should redirect to the best page within that versioned namespace (e.g. [[DF2012:Dodging]], [[v0.31:Drink]]).

:Due to limitations of the wiki software, double redirects should be avoided if possible. When fixing double redirects in mainspace, please make sure to use the cv: alias as appropriate.

If no one objects, I will make this change in a few days.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:21, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

:Okay with me. It may be worth mentioning that double redirects only really need to be changed when they don't work (since changing a lot of redirects that work isn't necessary), but I think it's clearer and more relevant than the current policy. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:26, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Done.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:55, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

I was finally able to get my extension to work after being motivated by one too many malfunctioning redirects. It now causes nonexistent pages in the main namespace to behave exactly like redirects to their DF2012 counterparts (when linked to, accessed directly, and transcluded). Double redirects also work (up to 100, in fact, although that was a temporary safety measure that I'll probably change). This means we'll be able to safely get rid of all mainspace redirects (redirects that redirect to something other than "cv" will still function if not deleted). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:20, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
:What about articles which don't exist in the current version but do exist in older versions? Will those still need mainspace redirects, or will your extension be able to automatically redirect them to v0.31/40d/23a? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 01:29, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
::It ignores all mainspace pages that actually have content, including redirects, so pages like [[masons guild]] won't be affected (unless deleted). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:47, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Done and deployed. [[Cat]] is still treated as a redirect, even though I just deleted it (try clicking on the "redirected from" link). Pages that exist are ignored, so [[Masons guild]] and [[History of Dwarf Fortress]] still function normally (as a redirect to a 23a page and a non-redirect, respectively). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm sending around a bot right now to delete all redirects of the format "foo -> cv:foo" (a surprising number don't fit this format, so I'm leaving them alone for now). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:43, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

:I'm confused. Do we use double redirects or not? Is there a single place we define our linking policy (including redirects), and is it updated?
:I had trouble linking to [[Consolidated_development]] in [[v0.34:Dragon]]. It kept pointing to v0.34:Consolidated_development, which does not exist. I ended up linking to Main:Consolidated_development to make it work. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] ([[User talk:Nahno|talk]]) 10:18, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

::That's a separate problem altogether - links in the versioned namespaces (v0.34, v0.31, 40d, 23a) automatically link to pages within their namespace. I may be able to set up a fallback to mainspace once I'm able to deploy again, but for now the "main:" alias is the intended solution. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 11:36, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

== Google often directs people to the 0.31 page ==

I've noticed a couple of times that finding a wiki page from an external search will often drop me onto a page from an older version. Is it possible to mitigate this somehow for new players? I could imagine something like redirecting old:Bar -> cv:Bar unless the user has come from old:Foo; no idea if that would actually work though. [[User:PeridexisErrant|PeridexisErrant]] ([[User talk:PeridexisErrant|talk]]) 11:48, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

:As a temporary solution, I could write a script that displays a banner of some kind if the user came from an external site. I'll ask Briess if he can do anything on the server level to increase the weighting of the current version's pages. (Obviously there are situations where people are looking for old pages, like [[23a:dungeon master]], so we don't want to disable indexing entirely on old pages.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:03, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

== DF2014? ==

As Toady [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ draws closer to a new release], it might be worthwhile to discuss the addition of a new version to the wiki. The upcoming release covers two years of changes and introduces a number of new plants, foods, drinks, multi-tile trees, climbing, jumping, etc., so it is likely to have significant changes from the current DF2012. To avoid having people start new pages (and lose all the effort spent refining the prior version's page), I think it would be best to have a bot automatically copy over the DF2012 pages as a starting point for DF2014. I would suggest that these copied pages include a noticebox template mentioning that the content may be outdated, so that we can easily track which pages have been reviewed. I think either the {{tl|version check}} or {{tl|old}} template would work. --[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:43, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

:This is what [[User:QuietBot]] did after the 0.34 release, so it's certainly possible to use the same script to migrate to DF2014. I would like a way of tagging migrated pages, since inaccuracies in some pages went unnoticed for months after they were migrated. Since {{tl|old}} is already in use, {{tl|version check}} may be a better solution (it can be reworded slightly, or we can make a separate template for DF2014 migration). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:23, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
:Made [[Template:DF2014 migrated]] as an example. Any thoughts? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:32, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

== Redirects inconsistency ==

Following a redirect is supposed to be exactly the same as going straight to the page it redirects to, but this actually isn't the case:
* Go to [[Seeds]] and you get [[v0.34:Seed]] (outdated)
* Go to http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Seeds&redirect=no and click on the link and you get to [[DF2014:Seed]] (current)
So if you search for "seed", the top result is the DF2014 version. But search for "seeds" and you get the redirect, which sends you to the outdated page instead. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 23:22, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

While I'm talking about redirects, it seems redirects to sections don't work: see [[DF2014:How do I manage my seeds and crops]]. I know MediaWiki is capable of this trick because Wikipedia does it. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 23:32, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

:I have absolutely no idea why [[seeds]] redirects to a v0.34 page - it could be a Mediawiki bug. The section links issue is due to a known issue in the redirect extension we use, which has yet to be fixed. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:01, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
:It looks like deleting both [[Seeds]] and [[DF2014:Seeds]] fixed things (by allowing AutoRedirect to handle the redirects instead). Feel free to tag any others with {{tl|bad redirect}}. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:03, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
::It gets stranger. [[Vial]] redirects explicitly to [[cv:Flask]] which displays (when you look at it with &redirect=no) as [[DF2014:Flask]], but still goes to the v0.34 version. It seems redirects interpret the cv: pseudo-namespace (or whatever it's called) in an outdated way. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 18:08, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
::I've added a note to this page about this issue. If it gets resolved, the note should be removed. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 21:04, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

==Reorganizing versions==

The internet deals with moved content... poorly. Google is still linking to v0.34 pages more than a year after the switch to "DF2014", and even the wiki software still has cached links pointing to the old version pages.

I propose reorganizing versions on the wiki to avoid moving content whenever possible. Instead of having a temporary "current version" namespace that changes occasionally, all the current information gets promoted to the Main namespace. When the next version split occurs, the Main articles as of a certain revision number can be copied to the newly-created permanent "old version" namespace, while all the current information remains in Main. This not only fixes the link rot issue, but it has a few other benefits as well: fewer administrative tasks, no lockdown (a historical version of the Main pages can be copied at any point, even if the Main articles are already modified for the new version), almost all the article history is maintained in the Main article (instead of being spread unevenly across multiple versions), no "temporary" namespaces are needed, fewer problematic long redirect chains, and hopefully less user confusion (since Main gets priority in search results, etc.).

As an example, today we would not have a DF2014 namespace (which is good because "temporary" namespaces historically disappear anyway). If you ran a search for [[seed]] you'd end up at Main:seed, which would have all the current information on seeds. The version box at the top of the page would still link to the older versions of the seed article. When a new version is released, an admin would choose a revision number and copy the Main:seed article as it exists at that revision number to v0.40:seed. That's it. One historical copy that needs little to no new editing, and zero redirections/moves.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:02, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

:Makes sense to me. It would involve a lot of work, though (e.g. fixing templates and categories to account for the current version being in mainspace), although that should be doable thanks to {{tl|category}}, {{tl|version switch}}, etc.. A bot could be set up to copy revisions from before a release date as well, which would be more difficult (and maybe slower) than a direct copy, but not severely. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:24, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

:Actually, there are a few issues with that, namely that there wouldn't be an easy way to distinguish between versioned and non-versioned mainspace pages. There are ways to resolve Google search priority (we can exclude pages from older versions from search engine results if there are newer versions of those pages available, for example). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:47, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::There aren't very many non-versioned mainspace pages, and determining if a page is versioned is as simple as looking for the version template and/or categories added by the version template (e.g. copy [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:Current this category] instead of Main:*). The problem with "suggesting" newer pages to Google is that they obviously aren't crawling our wiki regularly (if they were, the fact that the mainspace redirects point to new pages would automatically be picked up). Even if your Google hints worked they wouldn't do anything for all the other broken links out on the 'net.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:35, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::: Google actually crawls the wiki constantly - we probably get crawl hits from google for a continuous block of 2-3 hours per day, each and every day. Why they are slow to update is beyond me though. I can't remember why we didn't do this initially, but there was a technical limitation involved if I remember correctly. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] ([[User talk:Briess|talk]]) 22:05, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::: There are <meta> tags that can be used to hide pages from search results (for search engines that recognize them, that is). Searching for {{tl|av}} or [[:Category:Current]] might work, although we'd have to make sure all of the DF2014 pages include that (some pages don't, particularly some disambiguation pages, although all of them should). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:53, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

:Is there a particular reason main and current are separate to begin with?—[[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 00:17, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

::It's mostly intended to distinguish between versioned and non-versioned pages and make version-related templates simpler to work with, since every versioned page has a namespace. I wasn't active here in 2010 when this system was created, so Briess and Emi would know more.
::Another issue I just thought of with Loci's suggestion is categories - currently, categories like [[:Category:Animals]] are used to organize the versioned sub-categories. Sure, we can change {{tl|Category}} to categorize mainspace pages in [[:Category:v0.40:Animals]] or [[:Category:DF2014:Animals]], but that would be less straightforward because there wouldn't be a namespace with that name (until pages are migrated when a newer major version is released). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:05, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

:Moving current pages to the main namespace sounds like a great idea. -[[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] ([[User talk:Jecowa|talk]]) 20:47, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Another thought: dealing with migrating redirects could be difficult with this proposal - specifically, determining which redirects should be migrated to a versioned namespace. Redirects can't contain {{tl|av}}, at least not before ``#REDIRECT``. I ''think'' it would be possible to copy pages in two stages, though - all non-redirects first, then all redirects whose targets were also copied. Thoughts? Anything I'm missing? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:41, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Some subpages (particularly /raw and /Edit notice) also deliberately lack {{tl|av}}, although those shouldn't be too hard to handle. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:35, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

:Redirect pages (and all other edge cases I've looked at) can be included in categories (like [[:Category:Current]]) to determine whether or not they should be copied into an archival version. But if the redirects are "properly qualified" then they can all be copied over blindly. Mainspace redirects pointing to versioned information should use a blank namespace (which will be automatically constrained to the archival namespace); mainspace redirects pointing to unversioned information should use an explicit "Main" (which will automatically link back to the unversioned page). Then, when [[[[Toady]]]] gets copied to [[[[v0.4x:Toady]]]] it will point back to [[[[Main:Toady One]]]]. Meanwhile, [[[[Beer]]]], copied to [[[[v0.4x:Beer]]]], will properly point to [[[[v0.4x:Alcohol]]]].--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:00, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

::I think qualifying redirects is the best solution here - categorizing redirects manually is another possible source of errors, since categories (or a lack thereof) would only be visible on the redirect page itself, and [[:Category:Current]] is a hidden category. Copying over mainspace redirects into versioned namespaces would also resolve some issues that have come up due to those not reliably existing currently. I should be able to set up a bot script to add "main:" to current mainspace redirects (and it shouldn't break anything, since those redirects go to other mainspace pages anyway). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:57, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

(Note: I wrote all of this without noticing the previous discussion above.) I was wondering, when the wiki creates a new namespace for a major release again, if it is possible to ''not'' create a namespace for the next current version (e.g. "DF202x") and instead have the mainspace articles (which are currently redirects) become the new cv and move the content there. Therefore, [[cv:Cat]] would just be "[[Cat]]" (or [[Main:Cat]]).

Certain namespace-related templates like [[Template:Ns/0]] would need to be changed, though nothing significant as far as I know. For most cases, any "DF2014" would be replaced with "Main" or even blank. There's also multiple extensions handling the current namespace system and they may need to be modified too, though I'm not sure if or how much. I'm guessing based on the discussions above that it will change stuff up.

My reason is the current namespace is increasingly becoming more anachronistic. "DF2014" could be misinterpreted as "this page is about the 2014 version of the game" or "this page was last updated in 2014", which I've seen a few people in forums mention. Granted that [[Template:Av]] is on the top of very article, I still think the namespace is inconsistent with the recentness of the article. But how is this related to what I'm asking for? Let's say we continue the current system: if we happen to do a new namespace change this year and create DF2020, the next major release (after graphics/UI) will be mythgen, which is estimated to take several years to develop (the Big Wait), and so the anachronism will start over again. The proposed way will prevent this from occurring for the next major release and every release thereafter.

I think the confusion with having a namespace that becomes old-fashioned overtime supersedes the confusion with not marking current versioned articles with a namespace. Most users just search "Cat" on the search bar and naturally expect to get information about the latest release of DF. So if users go a page that's just titled "Cat", they won't expect outdated info about cats from a previous release. That's how the current system works anyways. We'll be skipping the two-step process that we have now. It'll make several wiki tasks much simpler as well. Editors can create new articles for current versions without remembering to add a namespace. It'll fix any existing issues with (double) redirects; instead of [[Main:Kitten]] redirecting to [[cv:Kitten]], which goes to [[DF2014:Kitten]], which then redirects to [[DF2014:Cat]], [[Main:Kitten]] would just redirect to [[Main:Cat]]. And the cv: alias will no longer be necessary since "cv:" = "Main:" and will be forever.

There's no need to differentiate the current version and previous versions with a namespace for the current version is what I'm saying. Articles of previous versions will retain their respective namespaces. Users will still type "40d:Cat" to go to the 40d version of the article, but if they want the current version, they'll just type "Cat" (like now). The mainspace containing the "live" version of an article is natural and would create no uncertainty when browsing the wiki. And it would simplify the wiki somewhat and future-proof this anachronism problem. As a bonus, this change will also prevent web search engines from showing previous version pages when typing "DF cat" or something. (This isn't happening right now as DF2014 has been the current namespace for ~6 years, but it'll happen again when everything moves to a new namespace.)

This is the gist of it, and I may have ignored most of the problems with this proposal. I have personally wished for the whole version namespacing be made less complicated and have been seeking for a solution, and I feel like this is the best way to go about in the future. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:27, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

:<s>Whoops, looks like Loci already proposed this exact thing long ago. I definitely missed that discussion and should have checked first. My apologies. I'll move my text to that section and remove this one. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:36, 14 August 2020 (UTC)</s> Done. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:40, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

:The main issue I have with that is that putting pages about the current version in a namespace also differentiates between those pages and pages not about ''any'' version (for example, [[Toady One]] does not need a 40d or v0.34 page). Yes, we can use {{tl|av}} to mark versioned pages, but people often forget to add that to new pages. The current system also allows determining whether a page is versioned or not from its title, which makes migrations a lot faster. Relying on {{tl|av}} would require either reading the content of every page (which would slow scripts down significantly) or cross-checking with the list of all pages including the template (feasible, but a bit more complicated, and still susceptible to missing templates). I suppose that manually fixing and migrating pages missing {{tl|av}} later wouldn't be too much work, though.
:I am definitely in favor of changing "DF2014" (or a new namespace) to "Current", though. I was in favor of "DF2014" in 2014, but I don't think it makes sense anymore, and "Current" seemed to be a popular alternative in both the DF2012 and DF2014 discussions on the matter. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:02, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

== Weird redirect behaviour ==

[[Pump stack]] redirects to [[cv:Screw pump#Pump stack]]. If you look at the redirect itself it says it redirects to DF2014 namespace, which is correct. But if you actually follow the redirect, it goes to v0.34 namespace. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 16:10, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
:Yeah, that's part of the issue described in the above section (the wiki caching part, not on Google's end.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:00, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

== v50 organization ==

Some wiki admins have had a talk on Discord and decided that the most sustainable path forward is to put content for all future versions of DF in the main namespace. We will be working on a bot to do this in the next few days. Feel free to chime in with suggestions here. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:56, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

:Is it maybe possible to do backwards-namespacing? Like we have a "Main" namespace, which people are free to update, and whenever there's a new version of DF the "Main" namespace is copied into a namespace for the then old version, much like how you'd branch a stable branch from a development branch when working with a git-project? [[User:Therahedwig|Therahedwig]] ([[User talk:Therahedwig|talk]]) 23:13, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

::Yeah, we could do that if we decide to. We were talking about doing that for v50, actually, and might still do something similar to preserve edit history if it doesn't end up being too hard to automate. Our hope is that we will not introduce new namespaces for v50 -> v5x, unless there is a serious breaking change (and hopefully there isn't one). But if we change our mind, one advantage of the type of migration you mentioned is that it can be done retroactively - we can copy historical revisions that were current at the time of the release, and would only lose some typo fixes made after the release that apply to earlier versions as well. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:11, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

ETA is < 24 hours. Doing some final checks on a migration script. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 07:08, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

: We should really have a task list as there are many things that change and need updating. Including but not limited to:
:* Most templates that used the previous namespace convention broke, including nav templates.
:* Many game files changed locations and their pages need to be updated.
:* Raws need to be updated.
:* Various features added, changed, removed.
:* UI has been changed -- though I am more inclined to wait for classic release to avoid extra work --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 06:56, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

"''Raws need to be updated.''" Including applying text wraparound where necessary, I suppose - more than a few of them have proven to be that special kind of...''difficult'' to navigate otherwise, shall we say? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:There is already a task list in the [[#v50 migration|section below]] that includes templates and raws, with an explanation. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

== v50 migration ==

The initial migration script is done. New content is in the '''main''' namespace, e.g. [[Cat]]. Old content is still at [[DF2014:Cat]]. History was migrated to the ''new'' (main namespace) articles.

I know several things are broken still. Please reply if you find any others:
<div style="border-left: 2px solid red">
* <s>Versioned templates haven't been migrated yet (e.g. {{tl|vermin}} on [[Ant]])</s>
** Fixed. Most were migrated by a bot.
* Raws are missing on all pages that use them.
** This also affects sidebars, such as on [[Cat]] and [[Microcline]].
** Update: The DFRawFunctions extension has been upgraded to include v50 raws, using the "v50:" prefix for filenames instead of "DF2014:". I haven't finished a migration script to create the /raw pages themselves, but they can typically be created manually by copying the DF2014 /raw pages and changing "DF2014" to "v50" everywhere. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:20, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
* Some pages where the DF2014 page was a redirect to a main namespace page that contained content were migrated incorrectly.
** In this case, the main namespace page is usually a redirect to itself. This can be fixed by undoing LethosorBot's edit to the main namespace page, then copying the content to the DF2014 page.
** Update: most seem to have been fixed manually - thanks! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
* <s>Some main-namespace talk pages redirect to DF2014 talk pages. Some of these redirects work, and some (usually older ones) do not.</s>
** Fixed with a bot. Some redirects from talk pages to other deleted talk pages are now broken, e.g. [[Talk:Above_ground]] (exists) -> [[Talk:Tile attributes]] (redlink). I am leaving them like that because they redirect to where the talk page should be created, but I'm also fine with people deleting them if they really want to. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
* {{tl|quality}} for new articles is disabled (see below)
* Some links from DF2014 to Main weren't working: e.g. the version selector [[DF2014:Mason's workshop]] was linking to [[DF2014:Main:Mason's workshop]] instead of [[Main:Mason's workshop]]. I'm not sure exactly why, but I fixed it with a change to the NamespaceLinks extension. Let me know if you spot similar broken links. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:19, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
</div>

—[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:54, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:The quality levels of the 50.03 pages seem to be missing. I'm not sure if that's covered under that first point. [[User:Trainzack|Trainzack]] ([[User talk:Trainzack|talk]]) 06:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::If the the [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Quality]] feature can be made to work with namespace scheme change, I suggest to automatically assign the lowest quality rating to all pages, alternately add the {{tl|old}} to all pages. Otherwise there will be a lot of pages that will fall through the cracks. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:12, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::I disabled {{tl|quality}} in the main namespace because it would require some rework to make the rating script and the template work properly there. Feel free to take a stab at the template. I will see what can be done on the extension side. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::What needs to be done on the template side? I'm not sure I see too big of an issue leaving pages as "unknown-quality" for now (or just change the default to tattered) until we get the rating script working. Is that script up anywhere, anything that could be helped with? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 11:10, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

It appears some pages are redirecting recursively and never resolving correctly, like the [[https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Character_table&redirect=no|character table]] and [[tileset repository]] 07:35, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
: Indeed, these can be caught here: [[Special:DoubleRedirects]] --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:51, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

It might be useful to change the notice title to "release information '''for editors'''" --[[Special:Contributions/142.59.195.176|142.59.195.176]] 10:26, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Can do. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::New here, hello. Should we set a date where we remove/only show the banner for logged in users. There are (some) pages that have 4 different notices about the upgrade. [[Engraving]] is one such page, the top banner states "information for editors", we then have the "this page was migrated" banner, a version selection which warns the article might be inaccurate, and a smaller banner saying the page might need to be updated. Quite a lot of screen space, I think we can start to slowly reduce the amount of warnings this coming month? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 10:07, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Main talkpages seem to redirect to DF2014 talk. Not sure if it is intentional but I like it, though we should pay attention when creating new discussion relating to v50 ending up there.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 14:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:That's unintentional. I specifically wrote the migration script to not move talk pages, but that has the side-effect of leaving any previously-created "Talk -> DF2014 talk" redirects intact. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Yo Lethosor, are we adding graphic sprites for the pages in some way? Or are we waiting for you to add some sort of new template or something? I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that the current templates don't allow that. Not sure if I'm allowed to change/create any templates either, as I don't want to break things for hundreds of pages. Edit: And IF the icons are allowed, should they be left alone, or 2×-3× sized like how the Minecraft wiki does it? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 14:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Depends on which templates you mean. There are copyright concerns with uploading a premium sprite sheet, for instance. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::I'm not talking about uploading an entire sprite sheet. I'm just talking about individual icons for each respective page. One image for cows, one for horses, one for werebeasts, etc. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 16:50, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::If we do that for every creature in the sprite sheet, that's not much different (in terms of copyright) from uploading the entire sprite sheet. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:09, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::Is there someone we can talk to about that? We finally get this new game with graphics, and then we can't use the very graphics of the game? No matter what the rules are, I'd say that would be the stupidest thing ever. I know I'm infamous here when it comes to copyright and images and stuff, but about 80% of game wikis out there are completely unofficial, and use game file images like no one's business. I can't imagine anyone's door being knocked on if we used the game's sprites, but I won't add any here until we have a go-ahead. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 17:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::...I've made noise in Mayday's direction on this matter, at least (prob an incorrect maneuver, ''but'').[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 17:55, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::: I hope some sort of arrangement can be made so we can use the new sprites with permission/limits, just as we are using the raw files. Otherwise we are all (devs and editors alike) shooting ourselves in the foot here.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 21:07, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::::I just thought of something. We're supposedly not allowed to upload entire sprite sheets, right? What if - for the time being - we just use a few of them for the purpose of testing out new infoboxes? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:46, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::I don't know. If someone could ask Kitfox and post the response here, that would be great. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::::::I've reached out to Alexandra, but she hasn't answered yet. Until then I found these old approvals from the previous community manager, Feeona: ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.msg8243633#msg8243633 link1], [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176640.msg8243642#msg8243642 link2]). Waiting for a newer response until we begin mass uploads is probably the politer option, but like Zippy said, it is also standard for wikis to use game sprites with less approval. I second their idea of trying it out with a few images to test the infoboxes. On the extreme off-chance (and I do think it is) Kitfox protests we can always remove these few. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 22:19, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::And here is a third, more official statement: ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.msg8249718#msg8249718 link3]). Perhaps that address of info@kitfoxgames.com is the better channel to ask for a confirmation, rather than Discord DMs, but I will be going to bed, so it is best if someone else does that. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 22:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::Thanks for tracking this down! Ok, sprites should be fine, but let's avoid uploading the entire premium tileset as a single image, for instance (as the forum thread says, "use common sense"). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:21, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::: Looks good, permission is always preferable over fairuse, I think it is a win win for all involved. I agree that we shouldn't upload entire sprite sheets (e.g. there is no reason to upload the windmill from every direction or whole construction phase for workshops) and that there are a lot of details that needs to be ironed out through testing. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 05:07, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::We have a green light on uploading all and any sprites. Their response to me can be seen [https://i.imgur.com/BhmHjzC.png here]. I'm sure someone else confirmed it before me. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:00, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Shifting temporarily to a new issue, is the documentation of [[Template:ArticleVersion]] outdated? It would seem so to me, since the current version no longer has its own namespace, with the templates needing updating being different ones. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 18:30, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:I think it is still accurate enough. We left open the possibility of making another namespace in the future, albeit with a different migration strategy - see [[#v50 organization|above]]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Some Changes to infoboxes might be needed. Too bad [[User:Doorkeeper]] isn't around. He did a great work with navbox project--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:52, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

I just realized that raw files aren't stored as regular wiki pages but loaded via the DFRawFunctions extension (hence the need to update). Good news it's going to be handled in bulk, consistently and relatively easy to updated. Even better it's Lethosor problem ;) Also I just realized that all the "raw files" (txt files in the new vanilla folder) are released into the public domain. Both are probably not news to the vets but I'll leave it here for those who less up to date like myself. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:35, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

: I noticed that some templates aren't working properly in the new namespace, e.g. [[Basalt]] entry had its raw updated manually but the infobox fail to show any details. Cursory look suggest {{t|layerlookup/0}} need a minor tweak. This should do the work
:: Replace: <nowiki>{{layerlookup/aux|{{{{FULLPAGENAME}}/raw}}|uses={{{uses|}}}|wiki={{{wiki|}}}}}</nowiki>
:: With___: <nowiki>{{layerlookup/aux|{{</nowiki>:<nowiki>{{FULLPAGENAME}}/raw}}|uses={{{uses|}}}|wiki={{{wiki|}}}}}</nowiki>
: Not sure what the plan and ETA with raws update so I didn't touch this high usage template for now. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 08:11, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

::Please do feel free to make this update. I am still working on a script to create the <code>/raw</code> pages themselves. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be an idea to add to the Sitenotice to remove the {{tl|migrated article}} tag when an article has been fully updated? I see many articles that seem to be updated still have the tag. And/or advise to make use of the {{tl|verify}} for sections still in need of checking? --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 10:12, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:Probably a good shout. The "see this page" link does include the detail on removing but we should more explicitly encourage removing the banner once a page has at least been looked over. [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 11:01, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== v50 specific issues ==
=== Graphics===
Follow up on the use of game sprites and the need to trying it out with a few images to test the infoboxes. First sprite [[:File:Beds v50.png]] was uploaded and used on [[Bed]] entry. Any thoughts? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:06, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:Seems like it should be rearranged to be horizontal. Also, has there been a serious discussion about copyright? Full screenshots are 100% fine, but you start going into a grey area when you upload pieces of a spritesheet. I'm of the opinion that it's all fine as long as it's inconvenient to reconstruct the full sheet from the individual images. Maybe a further restriction could be you shouldn't upload any of the art unless it's used in an infobox (maybe an exception for pieces of the UI). And one more restriction could be you shouldn't show everything, like in your bed example, maybe just the wooden bed is good enough, leave out the stone and metal, especially since those can only be made from strange moods. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:43, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::Actually, your bed image is kinda bad for showing off what a bed looks like because it doesn't show the pillow/blankets. That might point to cropped screenshots being the best path, although less convenient for the uploader, as you don't get details left out. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:46, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::I created a new license template [[Template:Copyright game]], based it on the way the RimWorld wiki does things. Call it a prototype, but it's probably how your bed image should be labelled. Indeed, I added it to it already. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]])

::: I agree that the horizontal arrangement would suit better here and that we should strive to represent how things look in-game. Otherwise, I am not too concerned about people being able to reconstruct anything (lets just say that ''anyone'' interested in that can get the real thing from the game files), also it seem we have permission to use the sprits on top of fairuse. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 19:55, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

::: Modifying the existing template to allow the inclusion of the new sprites is easy (Something like [https://ibb.co/zFXCrjd this]?) The big question is the matter of consistency is there any exceptions that will break the format (size wise with variant bloat for example), the sprite naming format, etc --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:44, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::: If we are going to show a variant for each material type, then maybe these should be added as separate images so we can add a tooltip for each image. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:49, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

:I've got another prototype going here and here: [[User:Brightgalrs/vector.css]] and [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox]]. (You'll need to add the css stuff to your own /vector.css). Basically it's a way to recolor images using css classes. No idea if there's a better way. Also, the real implementation would require a change to [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:Should mention, there ''is'' a different way, just upload each image 16 times, one for each coloring. But maybe that's not very elegant. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:45, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

: It should be noted that soon the classic edition will be released, hence one should plan to have both the Premium and classic alongside in that little space --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 03:14, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::I'm looking into a tab extension to potentially support this in infoboxes. Perhaps [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Tabs Extension:Tabs]? I tried [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TabberNeue Extension:TabberNeue], but it displays a placeholder if JavaScript is disabled, which isn't great. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: The Neue Tabber seem to works pretty much like the old one (which fandom [https://coding-help.fandom.com/wiki/Tabber#Adding_images_into_tabbers still use]) defaulting to showing the first tab only. Quick look suggest that neue work the same, plus the notice that 'Tabber requires Javascript to function' warning? if so, and if it is a bother, then you should be able to edit out the tabberneue-noscript string in code. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 06:29, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: I much prefer your tabber solution, but if that fails we can also use the gallery slideshow mode. If so, beware it has no way to control image size so the images have to be maliciously uploaded using the exact same size. example:
<gallery mode="slideshow">
File:SteelSample.png
File:TinSample.png
File:ZincSample.png
File:GoldSample.png
</gallery> --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:19, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

==== adding premium set to Infobox ====
I am unclear where are we going with this? 
1) Will (A) tabs be implemented, (B) we be using mediawiki toggle [[Template_talk:V50_workshop|example]] for premium and classic/blocked, (c) put images side by side, or (d) something else? 
2) Also [[silver]] and [[Pig iron]] use very different image style for example. 
3) Anything else you want ? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 12:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

: Personally, I would love tabs to be implemented, but I think that side by side might be best for most. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 12:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
: Here is rough layout we can use. It should fit most buildings given the default sprite size. There is also a different floor plan for both (inspired by reddit)

{|
|- valign=top
|
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse; "
|+ 5x5
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc; "
|<div class="mw-customtoggle-infoboxtab mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="border-top-right-radius: 10px; border-top-left-radius:10px;">toggle</div>
|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|- valign=top
|colspan=2|<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">
[[File:Siege workshop.png|center|160px]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab"">
{|
|rowspan=2 style="width:50%; font-size: 125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Siege workshop}}</center>
|style="line-height: 1em; font-size: 125%;"|
{| style="border-spacing:4px;"
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|}
|-
| style="text-align: center;" | Layout
|}
</div>
|}
|
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse; "
|+ 3x3
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc; "
|colspan=2 style="text-align: right;"|<div class="mw-customtoggle-infoboxtab mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="float:left; border-top-right-radius: 10px; border-top-left-radius:10px;">toggle</div>{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|- valign=top
|rowspan=2 style="width:50%;"|
<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">[[File:Carpenter's workshop.png]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab""><center>
{| style="font-size: 175%; border-spacing: 0; background-color: black; border: 2px solid black"
|- 
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|"|7:0:0}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|{{=}}|6:0:0}}
|-
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
|-
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|]|0:0:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
|}</center></div>
|
{| style="border-spacing:5px;"
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|}
|-
| style="text-align: center;" | Layout
|}
</div>
|
{| style="width:200px; height:100px; padding:10px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse;"
|+ 1x1
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc;"
| colspan=3 style="text-align:center;"|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|-
| style="border-right: 1px dotted #545557;"|[[File:Screw_press.png|32px|center|link=]]
| style="font-size:125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Screw press}}</center>
| style="border-left: 1px dotted #545557;"|<center>{{Template:Floor Plan Screw press}}</center>
|}
|
{| style="width:200px; height:100px; padding:10px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse;"
|+ 1x3
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc;"
| colspan=3 style="text-align:center;"|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|-
| style="border-right: 1px dotted #545557;"|[[File:water_wheel.png|32px|center|link=]]
| style="font-size:125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Water wheel}}</center>
| style="border-left: 1px dotted #545557;line-height:normal;"|<center>{{Template:Floor Plan Water wheel}}</center>
|}
|}
:Any thoughts on the direction and or any and all of its elements? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:16, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

::I kind of like side-by-side, if it fits. If anyone wants to implement a toggle button or tabs, I would ask that that be implemented in a template for now, so that e.g. we could change a toggle button to tabs in a single place if we decide to install an extension to support that. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:14, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

::: I noticed a comment saying that [[impassable tile]] are no longer used in v50, is that true for all constructions? If so, floor plans are no longer needed, making things much easier as we can fit everything in except the 5v5 constructions like trade depot (and even these can be placed one above the other if so desired). If not, any thought on the alternative floor plan design? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:46, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

:::: None of the constructions have blocking tiles any more from my experience playing. I haven't tested siege weaponry with that stuff, but none of the workshops have it, nor does any furniture. (walls and fortifications will of course obstruct movement [[User:AndrielChaoti|AndrielChaoti]] ([[User talk:AndrielChaoti|talk]]) 18:47, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
::::: Ok, I have removed them from v50. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 23:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I have added a basic side by side variant to [[Template:V50 workshop]] and [[Template:Building]] for testing, let us know if there any issues. Few notes:
* The default image naming scheme of <code>workshop-name.png</code> will likely conflict with existing images here or on commons, maybe another naming scheme should be used like <code>v50 workshop-name.png</code> as it is with ascii pictures.
* There is inconsistency in image size. If you want to use large zoomed images then toggle is best, otherwise they need to be all in native size (96px for 3x3).
* In the current version the code roughly centers the images and if there is a big image like with [[Siege workshop]] it drops to a new line --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 23:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Bizarre palette-swapping idea/prototype ====
No idea if this is a good idea, since it takes a bit of time to set up, and there might be some performance issues... and maybe display issues?

But take a look at this:
{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock|palette-name=amber}}

It's way to swap palettes on an image, although the image itself is a table, with each cell representing a pixel. The template itself looks like this:
<code><nowiki>{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock|palette-name=saffron}}</nowiki></code>
Input the pattern and desired palette name.

I've got a larger showcase here: [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwapShowcase]]. Only did a rock pattern so far, but all palettes are implemented.
The major use for this would be on each stone, metal, wood, etc. type's page. The palette could be read directly from the raws. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 03:22, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

:From a technical perspective, my primary concern is indeed performance. Both on the server side and client side, a large number of tables that large (in terms of markup and cell count, that is) tend to be resource-intensive to generate and render. I saw your image-filtering experiments on [[User:Brightgalrs/vector.css]], and while that strikes me as a newer and less-backwards-compatible approach, it would probably be more resource-friendly.
:Is this color adjustment something the game is doing natively? i.e. does this accurately match what the game displays? I bet we could slap together an image-filtering extension (or find an existing one?) that can do this if needed. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:49, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah that's what I suspected. The images the template creates are spot on, checked it against a screenshot I took of some mica rocks in-game. The css stuff is unfortunately totally incorrect, was cool to learn about it though, so not a complete waste of my time :p. The premium, in-game graphics are true sprites, basically patterns of indexed colors. Each of the in-game colors (which are significantly expanded over the 16 ascii colors, there's 116/117) there is a palette defined in "\Dwarf Fortress\data\vanilla\vanilla_descriptors_graphics\graphics\images\palettes.png". Each indexed color of the sprite is swapped for the corresponding color in the palette. Because of that, the css stuff doesn't work since it's doing the hue/saturation/brightness changes to the entire sprite.
::I've looked into an existing mediawiki extension, couldn't find anything. One thing I did't really look at is some type of lua script/module that would basically emulate what the game is doing. So some function that takes in the base image as well as the desired palette, and based on that finds and replaces each color. No idea what mediawiki's capabilities are on that front. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 05:31, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
:::We do have Scribunto installed now, so it's totally possible to do something in Lua too - forgot about that. I can add you to the group that grants access to edit the Module namespace if you want to give that a shot. If we use an extension, we'd probably need a custom one, similar to DFDiagram (or perhaps DFDiagram could be extended - it's in dire need of a rewrite anyway). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:43, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::::I asked around on the mediawiki irc, I think scribunto/lua is a deadend, at least for taking an uploaded image and doing stuff to it with a lua script. However I did come up with this even more bizarre solution, using block elements. [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwapShowcase2]], maybe less resource intensive? Definitely displays a lot worse though, probably unusable.
::::{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock2|palette-name=saffron}}
::::I dunno, maybe none of this is worth it and we should just write some external program to put all the images together offline, and then just mass upload. It wouldn't be ''that'' many... [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 06:37, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

====Is there an easy way to just paste images from the clipboard?====

I use KDE spectacle to take screenshots straight to the clipboard (after cropping) -- is there an easy way to just paste (and auto-upload) an image into an article? It would make it a lot easier to contribute images. [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 23:35, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Unfortunately there is not. I would be open to a MediaWiki extension to support this if someone finds one. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:32, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:: Looks like this could do it, but I haven't used it before: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SimpleBatchUpload

=== Hotkeys/Menu navigation ===
Most key bindings and menus have changed. Should the article reflect a) only the old version, b) only the GUI version or c) both? For example, [[Bridge|bridges]] used to be built via {{k|b}} -> {{k|g}}, but now it's in Place strucutures {{k|b}} -> Constructions {{k|n}} -> Bridge {{k|b}}. What should be written in the article? Currently, it's {{k|b}} -> {{k|g}}. I ''think'' it should be only b), but I am not sure if there will be differences regarding hotkeys or menus between the premium version and the free version and then, c) would be the most appropriate option. --[[User:Prometherus|Prometherus]] ([[User talk:Prometherus|talk]]) 10:16, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

: Not sure. I wish the classic release soon --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 16:45, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:: Are you Toady's herald? Looks like it was just released! [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:18, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:: And our questions are answered, the old hotkeys seem to have been thrown out. Part of me is disappointed (useless muscle memory) but also relieved (unified UI for both versions is good in general and for the wiki). [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:25, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: According to info, in a sort of 'demo version' at that. I'll wait a little while longer, for myself.[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 18:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::::It's unlikely that keybindings in it will change significantly. My vote is that we should include information for both premium and classic, everywhere. Hopefully the keybindings are not different between versions. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:26, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Shouldn't it be based on the 50 or what verion the article is written for? [[User:Dominick|Dominick]] [[User_talk:dominick|(TALK)]] 18:42, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:::: The keybindings seem to be consistent between versions, (haven't checked exhausitvely, but since the menu layout is the same I think it is a good assumption). Should also keep in mind/consider that not all actions have keybindings. An option would be write 'Click on the <Example Text> icon or press {{k|E}}' [[User:Koos|Koos]] ([[User talk:Koos|talk]]) 23:14, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

=== Removed features & concepts ===

Since they're removed concepts, I've set [[Room]] to be a redirect for [[DF2014:Room]] and created [[Template:Activity zones]] for the nav bar bedrooms, etc, and made the necessary changes to [[Bedroom]] for it. Is this the correct approach, before I go on much further? (also a note, if it is, then [[Template:v50_rooms]] probably needs to be deleted) I also imagine that considering the number of changes in the interface, that things like [[Adventure mode]] and related pages might best be truncated to "not in 50.03" and when it does make it across, being more deliberately brought over in pieces? [[User:HawkOwl|HawkOwl]] ([[User talk:HawkOwl|talk]]) 06:23, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:Usually it is marked with [[Template:Removed_feature]]. For example: [[Dipscript]] or [[Party]]. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:45, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:: Ah, that's fair. Should that be mentioned in [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Versions#Redirects]]? [[User:HawkOwl|HawkOwl]] ([[User talk:HawkOwl|talk]]) 10:03, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:::I think the redirect policy mostly had in mind things that were removed a ''long'' time ago, like [[Tax collector]] and [[Economy]] (and the latter actually has a stub page as well). I guess we could clarify. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:34, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: The "current" redirects also cause the version box to incorrectly show that the current version has a page - e.g. [[23a:Cave_river]] shows a v50.04 version, but it's just a redirect back to that version. Similarly, what should happen to redirects like [[Clothes maker]], where a concept has evolved? It currently goes to [[23a:Clothes maker]] - that's correct if the user is trying to look up a very old concept, but if a new user is looking for "how to make clothes", they should be directed to [[Clothier]]. --[[User:Danny252|Danny252]] ([[User talk:Danny252|talk]]) 12:16, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: One should be careful with cv redirects. Most that were recently adjusted were unused plural forms (that should probably be deleted) but few like [[Crown]] needed that for backward compatibility. Removing the [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&type=revision&diff=279966&oldid=219482 cv part] means the the link on [[v0.31:Tilesets]] is now broken. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 22:30, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::If [[v0.31:Tilesets]] is about v0.31, it should not be using "main:" in its links - ''all'' of those links are going to pages about v50, not v0.31, regardless of whether the target is a redirect or not. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:37, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::: You right, I removed it. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 17:55, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Crown cv redir issue is now fixed, I believe. As goes with such cases where one can simply revert the troublesome edit, unless I've mistepped, myself? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 23:52, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
:Both [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&diff=prev&oldid=280026] and [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&diff=prev&oldid=279966] should not have had any effect, because "cv" is an alias to the main namespace now, just like "main". Proof: [[Crown]], [[cv:Crown]], [[main:Crown]]. It's possible caching is coming into play here, although I purged the redirect cache after making that alias change earlier this month... —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:02, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

I think there have been some changes not captured, but as a newb, I'm afraid to edit the page(s). A good example is Strawberry. I'm playing the Steam version right now and Strawberry plants are "not relevant to brewing" in Labor > kitchen > veg / fruit / leaves. Unless I'm mistaken and need to process them? Another example is the trade caravan = it seems the 3 square pathing no longer happens; it's just yak(s). 12:31, 28 December 2022 (UTC) 12:29, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
:Strawberries should be brewable according to the Raws.
:Trade wagons has been modified in v50. The first wagons will arrive at the same time your fort is becoming a barony. Until then, it's only pack animals and stairs are indeed fine. The [[Trading]] page needs a huge rework anyway... I'll try to do that next week. --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 13:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

<s>As far as I can tell, none of the workshop buildings in v50 have blocking tiles any more. There's a comment to the like in data/vanilla/vanilla_buildings/objects/building_custom.txt that says this "[BLOCK:1:0:0:0] workbenches no longer block". Hesitant to update that template as I'm not sure if it's referenced for all of the old versions too. </s> [[User:AndrielChaoti|AndrielChaoti]] ([[User talk:AndrielChaoti|talk]]) 05:54, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
: A new template has been created: {{tl|V50 workshop}} --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 13:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

=== creature infobox prototype (moved) ===

Check it out, I made a temporary template and added it to the [[cow]]s page. Now it shows the sprites (but not the zombified versions yet). I wanted to show everyone a prototype of what v50 creature infoboxes should look like. Or at least something similar to it. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:11, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
:Hi, I'm new to editing wikis but I have done a bit of work with sprite sheets and I've been going through the DF data files to find the different graphics hoping to help with the animal pages. I've thrown together a template with grass and a few nature sprites (plants, a tree, and a rock) for size reference but I'm unsure how large the 'display' tiles in the middle of the template should be to suit all animals. I can see in the sprite sheets that some land animals have an adult and child sprite, so two tiles. Others have a male, female, and child, but after seeing you include the zombie cows I'm unsure if I should make it twice the size to add them too. Alternatively, I could grab some tiles from the haunted biomes for the zombie animals and make a separate template for a side-by-side comparison. Either way, let me know if this helps. I'd like to help with other graphics too as we add the premium tilesets but the animals seemed the easiest to tackle with me being new to wiki editing. ~~[[User:UristTheSeventh|UristTheSeventh]]

=== When do we remove the migration note on specific pages? ===

At what point can we remove the "this page was auto migrated from v47" warning? There are a bunch of small pages that are more or less accurate, if I've reviewed them, can I go ahead and remove the warning? [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 23:33, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Yes, feel free to remove it if you think all content is accurate. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== Toggleable image ==

Any objections/comments to using this template for now for toggling between classic and premium images? I'd probably rename it to "Template:Premium-classic thumb image". I'm sure someone can come up with a better UI eventually, but should be easy to migrate at that point. I also think we should use the same customtoggle class for this and for the infobox. [[User:NiftyManiac|NiftyManiac]] ([[User talk:NiftyManiac|talk]]) 23:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

{{User:NiftyManiac/Sandbox/TemplateDualImage|
premium=File:Quickstart-finder.png|
classic=File:Quickstart-finder-partial.png
}}

{{User:NiftyManiac/Sandbox/TemplateDualImage|
premium=File:Quickstart-finder.png|
classic=File:Quickstart-finder-partial.png|
caption=My caption|
width=100px
}}

:This looks nice to me! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:30, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

: Good initiative. From the top of my head:
:* I suggest using a shorthand, no one wants to type 'Premium-classic thumb image'.
:* If we end up using toggle for infoboxes (not sure where we headed there), then I agree definitely same custom toggle class should be used for all, thus allowing to switch premium-classic view on the whole page at a click.
:* The button part on a separate row isn't pretty, creating a lot of dead space that can be used by the text. Are we set on the label 'toggle ascii'? Classic isn't Ascii per se, maybe we can use a 'toggle' with a tooltip {{tooltip|for example|does bla bla bla}}, or maybe we can get rid of the text and have a smaller icon button ([[User:Jan/sandbox#Metal_example|two examples]]).
: I hope that helps. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 11:21, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Workshop

2023-01-02T12:47:13Z

Halavus:

{{Quality|Unrated}}{{av}}
[[Image:DFflowchart.png|thumb|200px|'''Production flowchart for most workshops'''. Not all items are represented! ''(Click to enlarge)'']]

'''Workshops''' are [[building]]s where materials are processed by dwarves into more valuable or useful items. There are a total of 31 workshops: 14 first tier, 11 second tier and 6 third tier across the game's various [[industry|industries]].

==Description==
Anything that is created, refined, cooked, altered, decorated, or generally "produced" is processed at a workshop. There are many different types of workshops, for different purposes and different finished products. Just as they have specific products associated with them, they have specific labors that are required by dwarves to build them or to work there, and dwarves with more of the appropriate skill tend to produce higher [[quality]] objects*, and/or produce them faster.

(* ''if the finished product has any quality modifiers - not all do: Processed milk is just [[cheese]], a [[stone]] block is just a stone [[block]], and a tanned hide is just [[leather]], etc''.)

You can use the workshop interface to restrict the use of individual workshops to specific dwarves, called workshop Masters, to create workshop-specific [[work orders]], and limit how individual workshops accept general work orders.

Almost all workshops measure 3 tiles square, 3×3, but a few are 5×5, or even a single tile.

===Operation===

When there are items ordered at a workshop, the workshop will generate item creation jobs until it finds a suitable dwarf with appropriate labors (and skill level and so on if those are set in the workshop orders). When the dwarf is found, an A will appear next to the job in the workshop queue, and the following will happen:

# The dwarf comes to the workshop.
# The dwarf finds a suitable nearby (or the farthest) raw material. (if any stockpiles are set to give to the workshop, only linked stockpiles will be looked in!)
# The dwarf fetches all the necessary ingredients and brings them to the workshop.
# The dwarf labors in the workshop for a while and creates the item.
# The dwarf brings the finished item to the nearest suitable stockpile. (see #2 for linked stockpiles)
# At this point, the workshop goes to the next queued item, and starts looking for a suitable dwarf again - it's most probable that the dwarf who just finished the item is nearby and will be recruited again for another job.

If you have no [[stockpile]]s to put finished objects in, workshops will become [[clutter]]ed. You can see the clutter by checking the contents of the workshop by clicking on it. The more items there are, the longer tasks will take.

If you have only one dwarf with the appropriate labors, and the task of fetching items takes a long time because the stockpiles are far away, then they will execute far fewer jobs before it's time for a break. If you have many dwarves, then recruitment of another one will waste time since they are far away. Therefore, in either situation, it's in your interest to put the stockpiles as close as possible to the workshop.

===Interface===

A workshop's interface is accessed by clicking on it. This will open a new window showing the properties and controls of the workshop. The top section will show the name of the workshop; buttons to control its links to stockpiles, to rename it, and to deconstruct it; the tabs for Tasks, Workers, and Work orders; and the list of currently queued tasks and the button to add new tasks. The bottom section shows the current contents of the workshop, including the item that was used to construct the workshop.

The '''Tasks tab''' shows the current list of tasks, and is what allows you to queue up new tasks to be carried out immediately. Tasks are carried out in the order they are listed, with the current task being the topmost in the list.

To queue up a new task:
# Click the ''Add new task'' button to open up the list of valid tasks for this workshop. Tasks that can currently be queued will be in white text, while tasks that cannot be currently queued will be in orange text with red text beneath them indicating why they are not available (typically lacking a required material).
# Click on the task you want the workshop to perform. This will close the list and the task will be added to the bottom of the queue.

Each task will have a series of buttons beside it, allowing you to control certain aspects of how that task is carried out:
* The active task icon (a page and green check mark); this isn't a button, but indicates which task is currently being done.
* The repeat task button (two circling arrows) tells the workshop to continually repeat the task until it is either manually cancelled by the player or the workshop runs out of materials required for the task.
* The highest priority button (yellow exclamation point) which instructs the workshop to carry out the task with the highest possible priority. This is useful for emergency lever-pulling and other time-critical tasks.
* The increase priority button (orange up arrow), which moves the task higher in the task queue, to be carried out sooner.
* The details button (magnifying glass), which allows you to specify certain details of the task, such as choosing the material(s) to be used, the size of the resulting item (eg. clothing for difference species), or the imagery to be used in creating an artistic work.
* The pause button, which pauses the task until pressed again. A paused task does not prevent the workshop from continuing through the rest of its queue, it is simply skipped over.
* The cancel task button (red X), which deletes the task from the queue.

The '''Workers tab''' allows you to assign a Master to the workshop, restricting its use to that dwarf alone. Only one Master may be assigned to a given workshop. This can be useful if you want to restrict your highest-quality materials to be used by your most-skilled dwarves: by making them masters of their own workshops and controlling access to materials using stockpile links, those materials don't end up being used for lower-quality items in general workshops. By default, all workshops start as "This workshop is free for anybody to use."

To assign a workshop Master:
# Click on the Workers tab in the workshop interface.
# Click on the Add dwarf button to bring up the list of your dwarves. Beside each listed dwarf will be a button that will let you toggle them between "free to do any task" and "specialized". Dwarves set to "specialized" will only do tasks in their assigned workshops, work details, and occupations.
# Click on the dwarf's name to make them Master of this workshop. The list will close and return you to the Workers tab.
Once a Master is chosen, they will be listed on the Workers tab, along with the specialization toggle button. If you wish to remove them as workshop Master, click the red X button next to their name to return the workshop to general use.

Dwarves with strange moods seem to be able to claim a workshop, even if they do not meet the profile criteria.{{verify}}

The '''Work orders tab''' allows you to set up new [[Work Orders|work orders]] for the workshop, and lists all work orders specific to the workshop. These operate identically to work orders created by a [[Manager]] (and will appear in the Manager's work order list), except that they apply only to the workshop they are created in, and a Manager is not required in order to create them.

At the bottom of the Work orders tab is "General work orders allowed". This allows you to control how many general (ie. Manager-created) work orders the workshop will accept. The default value is 5. Setting this to 0 means that the workshop will not accept any general work orders, and will only perform work orders created specifically for that workshop.

==Management==
As your fortress continues to grow and diversify, it becomes increasingly difficult to keep your workshops fruitfully busy without causing overproduction or underproduction or depleting your resources. Though no process can be truly automated, there are a few tricks to keeping your workshops productive.

===Standing orders===
[[Standing orders]] provide a rudimentary form of automation for some specific workshops in ''Dwarf Fortress''. Certain goods or materials are only useful for one thing, having no other use and requiring refinement before they can be made into something useful. Thus, standing orders automate certain tasks, queuing them up whenever input materials are available; this behavior may be configured in the "Labor" menu by pressing {{k|y}} or clicking the hammer icon in the bottom left toolbar, and selecting the Standing orders tab. Note that this rudimentary automation performs poorly with multiple workshops, often queuing dwarves to carry the materials to the farthest available workshop.
* '''Automatically weave all thread''': This option instructs the [[loom]] to weave any thread into cloth whenever it becomes available. There are two other options: Automatically weave dyed thread, which behaves the same except it will only use dyed thread; and No automatic weaving, which disables all automatic weaving.
* '''Use any cloth''': This option doesn't control any automation, instead restricting whether your [[clothier's shop]]s will use any available cloth, or Use only dyed cloth.
* '''Automatically collect webs''': This option instructs the [[loom]] to automatically queue up "Collect webs" tasks whenever spiderwebs become accessible to your dwarves. This can make your dwarves go wandering off into the caverns at some risk.
* '''Slaughter any marked animal''': This option instructs the [[butcher's shop]] to queue up a "Slaughter animal" task any time an animal is marked for slaughter.
* '''Automatically butcher carcasses''': This option instructs the butcher's shop to queue up a "Butcher corpse" task any time a valid, unrotten corpse becomes available nearby. Butcherable corpses have no other use, and will [[rot]] if not processed quickly.
* '''Automatically clean fish''': This option instructs the [[fishery]] to queue up a "Prepare a raw fish" task any time an unrotten unprepared fish becomes available. Unprepared fish is not edible as-is and rots quickly, so leaving this on is recommended if your fort has a fishing industry.
* '''Automate kitchen''': This option instructs the [[kitchen]] to queue up a "Render fat to [[tallow]]" task any time a glob of fat becomes available from butchering an animal. The resulting tallow is useful for making [[soap]] and as a low-value "solid" cooking ingredient, however you will likely end up with an overabundance of tallow. Since the original fat apparently doesn't rot, and the rendering job is slow and tends to distract your head cook when he should be cooking the quickly-expiring meat instead, it is often more convenient to disable the automatic rendering and manually queue the job (on an auxiliary kitchen) if you somehow run low on tallow.
* '''Automate tannery''': This option instructs the [[tanner's shop]] to queue up a "Tan a hide" task any time an unrotten animal skin becomes available from butchering an animal. Skins will rot quickly if left untreated, so leaving this enabled can be useful; however, players processing skin into [[parchment]] will probably want to disable automatic tanning.

===Repetition===
You can queue up to ten tasks in any workshop, and tell the dwarves to repeat any or all of them for as long as possible. This is most useful if you want to process all of a resource that you have into something usable (such as [[lye]] and [[tallow]] into [[soap]]), but don't know how much you have, or can't be bothered with exact numbers. If you want to keep a workshop busy, repeating a task for a period of time is the best way; most fledgling fortresses have craftdwarves making stone crafts 24/7. It is necessary to check back on your stocks every once in a while, however, as you might forget about your stone carver for a while and upon placing furniture discover that you have 99 doors but no tables. The easiest example would be gem cutting; just queue up all of the gems you've dug up on repeat, and use the cancellation messages to monitor progress through the stack. Note that if you place multiple jobs on repeat your dwarves will cycle through them, so you can have your mason make doors, cabinets, coffers, tables, and thrones (the "welcome to the fortress" package) in equally large numbers.

===Manager===
Appointing a [[manager]] [[noble]] allows you to queue work orders using the job manager interface, though your manager will need time to approve work orders before production begins. Using the job manager interface has two major advantages. Firstly, it allows you to produce an exact number of items as opposed to putting a workshop on repeat, and secondly, it allows easier management of complex tasks: although you will get cancellation spam, the tasks will simply re-queue, to be fulfilled as soon as the prerequisites are in order. This makes complicated processes, such as the production of twenty steel breastplates for your military, much simpler and less time-consuming. You will be notified when your work orders are completed, so it has the advantage of timely organization as well.

===Workflow===
Finally, for those who find the other automation options lacking, the [[Utility:DFHack|dfhack]] "workflow" plug-in allows for automated job processing for many applications (e.g. auto process plants, auto mill plants, auto brew, auto make soap, etc.). Unfortunately, setting up the necessary rules can require some trial and error and a considerable investment of time, but the results can be well worth the trouble, at least until comprehensive automation support is added to the game itself.

==Tier system==

The tier system was developed to help understand how far removed a workshop is from the basic raw materials that can be found throughout your average map. A Tier-1 workshop processes raw materials directly; a Tier-2 workshop processes the output of a Tier-1 workshop (but may also include new raw materials); and a Tier-3 workshop processes the output of a Tier-2 workshop (but may also include inputs from lower levels) Note that containers (cloth and leather bags) are considered Tier 1 materials even though they are produced at a higher tier. This is because these items are reusable; your dwarves will not need to create a new bag each time they want to mill some flour. In some cases, a workshop may fit into multiple tiers, (ex. [[Mechanic's workshop]]). In these cases, the workshop is listed in the lowest applicable tier for its primary purpose.

: Tier 1 workshops use Tier 0 materials (animals, ore, wood, plants, bone, etc.).
: Tier 2 workshops use Tier 1 materials (processed Tier 0 materials) and possibly Tier 0 materials.
: Tier 3 workshops use Tier 2 materials (processed Tier 1 materials) and possibly Tier 0 and/or Tier 1 materials.

===Tier 1 workshops===
*{{K|o}}-{{K|b}} [[Bowyer's workshop]]:
**Uses Tier 0 material: [[Wood]]
**Can also use higher-tier material: [[Bone]]
**Produces Tier 1 Weapon: [[Crossbow]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|p}} [[Carpenter's workshop]]: Uses wood from trees to produce various goods.
**Uses Tier 0 materials: [[Wood]]
**Produces Tier 1 materials:
***Armor: [[Buckler]], [[Shield]]
***Weapons: [[Training weapon|Training Axes]], [[Training weapon|Training Swords]], [[Training weapon|Training Spears]]
***Containers: [[Barrel]], [[Bin]], [[Bucket]], [[Casket]]
***Building Materials: [[Block]], [[Grate]], [[Pipe section]]
***Furniture: [[Bed]], [[Chair]], [[Table]], [[Cabinet]], [[Chest]], [[Armor stand]], [[Weapon rack]]
***Furniture: [[Door]], [[Floodgate]], [[Hatch cover]]
***Trap Components: [[Cage]], [[Enormous corkscrew]], [[Menacing spike]], [[Spiked ball]]
***Finished Goods: [[Crutch]], [[Splint]]
***Tools: [[Animal trap]], [[stepladder]], [[wheelbarrow]], [[minecart]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|j}} [[Jeweler's workshop]]:
**Uses Tier 0 Item: Rough [[gem]]
**Can also use higher-tier items: Cut [[gem]]s, Encrustable objects
**Produces: Cut [[gem]], Encrusted objects
*{{K|o}}-{{K|t}} [[Stoneworker's workshop]]:
**Uses Tier 0 Item: [[Stone]]
**Produces Tier 1 Items: [[Armor stand]], [[Block]], [[Throne]], [[Coffin]], [[Door]], [[Floodgate]], [[Hatch cover]], [[Grate]], [[Cabinet]], [[Coffer]], [[Statue]], [[Table]], [[Weapon rack]], [[Quern]], [[Millstone]], [[Slab]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|f}}-{{K|b}} [[Butcher's shop]]:
**Uses Tier 0 Items: [[Tame animals]], Corpses of untamed non-sentient animals
**Produces Tier 1 Items: [[Skin]], [[Fat]], [[Meat]], [[Bone]], [[Prepared organs]], [[Skull]], [[Scale]], [[Hoof]], [[Ivory]], [[Tooth]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|h}} [[Mechanic's workshop]]:
**Uses Tier 0-1 Items: [[Stone]], [[Table]], [[Rope]]
**Produces Tier 1 Item: [[Mechanism]]
**Produces Tier 3 Item: [[Traction bench]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|f}}-{{K|f}} [[Farmer's workshop]]:
**Uses Tier 0 Items: [[crop]], [[Animal]]
**Can use Tier 1 Reusable Items: [[Container|Bags, barrels, vials]], [[Bucket]]s
**Produces Tier 1 Items: [[Pig tail]] [[thread]], [[Rope reed]] [[thread]], [[Quarry bush]] leaves, [[Dwarven syrup]], Plant [[extracts]], [[Milk]], [[Cheese]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|f}}-{{K|y}} [[Fishery]]:
**Uses Tier 0 Items: Raw [[fish]]
**Produces Tier 1 Items: [[Meat|Fish meat]], [[Shell]]s, [[Captured live fish]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|r}} [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]]:
**Uses Tier 0 Items: [[Stone]], [[Wood]]
**Can also use higher-tier items: [[Bone]], [[Shell]], [[Ivory]], [[Tooth]], [[Horn]], [[Pearl]], [[Cloth]], [[Leather]], [[Slab]]s
**Produces: [[Finished goods]], [[Pot]]s, [[Jug]]s, [[Tool]]s, [[Memorial]]s
*{{K|o}}-{{K|g}} [[Siege workshop]]:
**Uses Tier 0 Item: [[Wood]]
**Can also use higher-tier item: [[Ballista arrowhead]]
**Produces: [[Catapult]] parts, [[Ballista]] parts, [[Ballista arrow]]s
*{{K|o}}-{{K|u}}-{{K|f}}[[Wood furnace]]:
**Uses Tier 0 Item: [[Wood]]
**Produces: Fuel ([[Charcoal]]), [[Ash]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|u}}-{{K|L}}[[Magma smelter]] (requires [[magma]] access):
**Uses Tier 0 Items: [[Coal]], [[Ore]], [[Flux]]
**Can also use higher-tier items: Fuel ([[Charcoal]], [[Coke]]), [[Metal]] [[bar]]s, scrap [[weapon]]s, [[armor]], etc.
**Produces: [[Metal]] [[bar]]s, [[Coke]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|u}}-{{K|K}}[[Magma kiln]] (requires [[magma]] access):
**Uses Tier 0 Items: [[Gypsum]], [[Alabaster]], [[Selenite]], [[Satinspar]], [[Kaolinite]], [[Clay]], [[Silty clay]], [[Sandy clay]], [[Clay loam]], [[Fire clay]], [[Cassiterite]]
**Can also use higher-tier items: [[Ash]], [[Potash]]
**Produces: [[Pearlash]], [[Gypsum plaster]], [[Ceramic]]s ([[Jug]], [[Block|Bricks]], [[Statue]], [[Large pot]], [[Craft]]s, [[Hive]]), [[Glaze]]d items
*{{K|o}}-{{K|u}}-{{K|G}}[[Magma glass furnace]] (requires [[magma]] access):
**Uses Tier 0 Items: [[Sand]] [[bag]], Raw [[rock crystal]]
**Can also use higher-tier item: [[Pearlash]]
**Produces: Raw crystal/clear/green [[glass]], [[Block]]s, [[Vial]]s, [[Toy]]s, [[Instrument]]s, [[Goblet]]s, [[Trap]] [[weapons]], [[Window]]s, [[Furniture]]

===Tier 2 workshops===
*{{K|o}}-{{K|f}}-{{K|t}} [[Tanner's shop]]:
**Uses Tier 1 Item: [[Skin|Hide]]
**Produces Tier 2 Item: [[Leather]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|l}}-{{K|o}} [[Loom]]:
**Uses Tier 1 Items: [[Adamantine]] strands, [[Cave spider]] [[silk]] [[Cloth|thread]], [[Giant cave spider]] [[silk]] [[Cloth|thread]], [[Phantom spider]] [[silk]] [[Cloth|thread]], [[Pig tail]] [[Cloth|thread]], [[Rope reed]] [[Cloth|thread]]
**Produces: [[Cloth]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|f}}-{{K|l}} [[Still]]:
**Uses Tier 0 Item: [[Alcohol#Brewable plants|Brewable Plant]]
**Uses Tier 1 Reusable Item: [[Barrel]]
**Produces: [[Drink]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|y}} [[Ashery]]:
**Uses Tier 1 Item: [[Ash]]
**Can use Tier 1 Reusable Item: [[Bucket]]
**Produces Tier 2 Items: [[Lye]], [[Potash]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|f}}-{{K|k}} [[Kitchen]]:
**Uses Tier 1 Items: [[Meat|Fish]], [[Meat]], [[Cheese]], [[Dwarven syrup]], [[Milk]], [[Prepared organs]], [[Fat]]
**Can also use lower-tier items: [[Plants]], [[Seed]]s, [[Egg]]s
**Can also use higher-tier items: [[Alcohol]], [[Dwarven sugar]], [[Flour]], [[Tallow]]
**Produces: [[Food|Prepared meals]], [[Tallow]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|R}} [[Screw press]]:
**Uses Tier 1 Items: [[Honeycomb]]
**Uses Tier 1 Reusable item: [[Jug]]
**Can also use higher-tier item: [[rock nut|Rock nut paste]]
**Produces: [[Honey]], [[Wax]], [[rock nut|Rock nut press cake]], [[rock nut|Rock nut oil]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|f}}-{{K|q}} [[Quern]]:
**Uses Tier 0 Items: [[Blade weed]], [[Cave wheat]], [[Dimple cup]], [[Hide root]], [[Longland grass]], [[Sliver barb]], [[Sweet pod]], [[Whip vine]], [[Rock nut]]s
**Uses Tier 1 Reusable Item: [[bag]]
**Produces: [[Flour|Dwarven wheat flour]], [[Dwarven sugar]], [[Flour|Longland flour]], [[Whip vine flour]], [[Dimple dye]], [[Emerald dye]], [[Redroot dye]], [[Sliver dye]], [[rock nut|Rock nut paste]]
*{{K|m}}-{{K|n}}) [[Millstone]] (under Mechanisms instead of Workshops):
**Requires: Mechanical Power Source ([[Water wheel]] or [[Windmill]]), and a Millstone (Constructed at [[Mason's workshop]])
**Uses Tier 0 Items: [[Blade weed]], [[Cave wheat]], [[Dimple cup]], [[Hide root]], [[Longland grass]], [[Sliver barb]], [[Sweet pod]], [[Whip vine]], [[Rock nut]]s
**Uses Tier 1 Reusable Item: [[bag]]
**Produces: [[Emerald dye]], [[Flour|Dwarven wheat flour]], [[Dimple dye]], [[Redroot dye]], [[Flour|Longland flour]], [[Sliver dye]], [[Dwarven sugar]], [[Whip vine flour]], [[rock nut|Rock nut paste]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|u}}-{{K|l}}[[Smelter]]:
**Uses Tier 1 Items: Fuel ([[Charcoal]], [[Coke]])
**Uses Tier 0 Items: [[Coal]], [[Ore]], [[Flux]]
**Can also use higher-tier items: [[Metal]] [[bar]]s, can [[melt]] metal [[weapon]]s, [[armor]], etc.
**Produces: [[Coke]], [[Metal]] [[bar]]s
*{{K|o}}-{{K|u}}-{{K|k}}[[Kiln]]:
**Uses Tier 0 Items: [[Gypsum]], [[Alabaster]], [[Selenite]], [[Satinspar]], [[Kaolinite]], [[Clay]], [[Silty clay]], [[Sandy clay]], [[Clay loam]], [[Fire clay]], [[Cassiterite]]
**Uses Tier 1 Items: Fuel ([[Charcoal]], [[Coke]]), [[Ash]], [[Potash]]
**Produces: [[Pearlash]], [[Gypsum plaster]], [[Ceramic]]s ([[Jug]], [[Block|Bricks]], [[Statue]], [[Large pot]], [[Craft]]s, [[Hive]]), [[Glaze]]d items
*{{K|o}}-{{K|u}}-{{K|g}}[[Glass furnace]]:
**Uses Tier 0 Items: [[Sand]] [[bag]], Raw [[rock crystal]]
**Uses Tier 1 Items: Fuel ([[Charcoal]], [[Coke]])
**Uses Tier 2 Item: [[Pearlash]]
**Produces: Raw crystal/clear/green [[glass]], [[Block]]s, [[Vial]]s, [[Toy]]s, [[Instrument]]s, [[Goblet]]s, [[Trap]] [[weapons]], [[Window]]s, [[Furniture]]

===Tier 3 workshops===
*{{K|o}}-{{K|l}}-{{K|l}} [[Leather works]]:
**Uses Tier 2 Item: [[Leather]]
**Produces: [[Leather]] [[Clothing]], [[Leather]] [[Armor]], [[Leather]] [[Shield]], [[Leather]] [[Quiver]], [[Leather]] [[Bag]], [[Leather]] [[Backpack]], [[Leather]] [[Waterskin]], [[Decoration|Leather Images]] (decoration)
*{{K|o}}-{{K|l}}-{{K|y}} [[Dyer's shop]]:
**Uses Tier 2 Item: [[Dye]], [[Cloth]]
**Can also use lower-tier item: [[Thread]]
**Produces: Dyed [[Thread]], Dyed [[Cloth]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|l}}-{{K|k}} [[Clothier's shop]]:
**Uses Tier 2 Item: [[Cloth]]
**Can also use higher-tier item: Dyed [[Cloth]]
**Produces: [[Backpack]], [[Bag]], [[Clothing]], [[Quiver]], [[Rope]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|i}} [[Metalsmith's forge]]:
**Uses Tier 1 Item: Fuel ([[Charcoal]], [[Coke]])
**Uses Tier 2 Item: [[Metal]] [[bars]]
**Produces: [[weapon]]s, [[trap]] components, [[bolts]], [[ballista arrowhead|ballista arrowheads]], [[armor]], [[chain|chains]], [[craft|crafts]], [[coins]], [[goblet|goblets]], [[stud|studding]], [[anvil]]s, [[block]]s, [[furniture]], animal traps and mechanisms.
*{{K|o}}-{{k|I}} [[Magma forge]] (requires [[magma]] access):
**Uses Tier 2 Item: [[Metal]] [[bar]]s
**Produces: [[Armor]], [[Weapon]], [[Chain]], [[Crafts]], [[Furniture]]
*{{K|o}}-{{K|P}} ({{K|Shift}}+{{K|s}}) [[Soap maker's workshop]]:
**Uses Tier 2 Items: [[Tallow]], [[Lye]]
**Can also use higher-tier item: [[Rock nut oil]]
**Produces: [[Soap]]

Note that some specific products can be higher-tier than indicated above. For example, production of [[Steel]] weapons requires: producing [[Coke|fuel]], producing [[Iron]] [[bar]]s, producing [[pig iron]] bars, producing [[steel]] bars, then finally forging weapons (a Tier-5 process).

==See Also==
* [[Manager]]

{{Workshops}}

{{Category|Workshops| }}
[[ru:Workshop]]

Talk:Manager

2023-01-02T12:44:33Z

Halavus:

<s>1/ Why is "*Allows workshop profiles to be set." being written back?</s>

2/ I would have let the section about the removed "Workshop Profiles" feature, as it was quite a major management feature in previous version of df. Returning players (like myself) might look for it?
--[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 02:08, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:What do you think of this solution, with a '''Note''' section? --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 12:44, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Manager

2023-01-02T12:41:01Z

Halavus: Workshop Profile tweak...

{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{av}}
{{Noble
|noble=Manager
|office=Meager Office
|function = *Allows large production orders.
|arrival= *Appointed on the [[nobles screen]].
}}

The '''manager''' is a [[noble]] that allows players to create multiple [[Work orders]], and also lets them set up profiles for workshops. This means that players can rapidly dispatch any number of jobs from a single screen, without having to add tasks to individual [[workshop]]s.

==Relevant Skills==
A certain set of skills are relevant for any manager. Furthermore, certain [[personality trait]]s influence whether any experience is gained in the skill. There are [[Attribute#Soul_Attributes|soul attributes]] that affect the skills, and other skills that affect the same attributes' cross-training. The ones relevant for a manager are as follows:
{| {{prettytable}}
|- style="background:#ddd"
! rowspan="2" colspan="2" | Skill (relevant for manager)
! rowspan="2" colspan="2" | Personality Trait (needed to gain social skill)
! colspan="2" | Attribute (affected by social skill)
|-
! style="width:1em" | Body
! style="width:1em" | Soul
|-
| rowspan="3" style="width:5em" | Administrator
| rowspan="3" style="width:5em" | Organizer
| rowspan="3" colspan="2" |
| rowspan="3" style="width:1em" |
| Analytical ability
|-
| Creativity
|-
| Social awareness
|-
| rowspan="6" | Social - Other
| rowspan="3" | Consoler
| rowspan="3" | Straightforwardness (Honesty)
| rowspan="3" | > 39
| rowspan="3" |
| Linguistic ability
|-
| Empathy
|-
| Social awareness
|-
| rowspan="3" | Pacifier
| rowspan="3" | Cooperation (Compromising)
| rowspan="3" | > 39
| rowspan="3" |
| Linguistic ability
|-
| Empathy
|-
| Social awareness
|}
The better match with the skills, traits and attributes in the table above, the better of a manager a dwarf will be. Try to avoid traits that halt experience gain for a relevant skill, otherwise time will be lost training a dwarf who will never get better at that skill.

==Office==
A manager only performs their duties in their office, so it's absolutely necessary to assign them one, though they only require a meager office.

To set up a dwarf to be the manager and give them an office:

#Open the Nobles screen by pressing {{K|n}} or the crown button on the bottom left toolbar.
#Select the {{K|+}} button next to Manager which will bring up a list of valid candidates in your fort; those with applicable skills will be at the top of the list. Click on the candidate of your choosing; if nobody is particularly suited to the job, picking the Expedition Leader is a reasonable choice. You will see that the Study icon (the chair symbol) for the Manager position is red, meaning their requirement for an office is not met. Exit the Nobles screen.
#Use the Zones tool {{K|z}} to paint an Office zone in a location and of a size you desire. Once the zone is placed, and while it is still selected, press the Assign dwarf button and choose the dwarf you've assigned to the Manager position to make this their office.
#Build a [[chair]] inside the Office zone you've placed. Other furniture can also be included if you wish to increase the room value, but it must at least have a chair.
#Once this is done, if you return to the Nobles screen you will see that the Study icon for the Manager position is now green, their need for an office met. You should now be able to queue up work orders.

It is trivially easy for a manager to get experience in the [[organizer]] skill. Just queue a lot of jobs to produce 30 of something, such as [[loom|Collect Webs]], which appears first on the list. The manager will gain experience when validating the order, not when the order is finished. You can cancel the order after it's validated, if you wish.

{{a|The manager screen}}

== Work orders ==
Work orders are an advanced feature of [[Workshop#Management|Workshop Management]] that becomes available with a manager. It allows easier management, automation and/or fine control of the various activities needed to maintain a well-oiled fort. The manager screen lists all work orders in the fortress, shows their status and allows to modify them and place new general orders. It is accessed from the main screen through the {{K|o}}rders menu, or the the clipboard icon in the bottom left of the screen.
For detailed usage, see: [[Work orders]]

Work orders can also be created that apply only to specific workshops. This is done using the clipboard button on the Work orders tab of the individual workshop's interface. See [[Workshop]] for more information.

==Disadvantages==
One disadvantage of the work order system is that no work will be performed until the manager finishes validating the order. Work order validation appears to be fairly high priority, but it's best to ensure your manager has ample free time and isn't typically called far from the office for timely order validation.

A second disadvantage is that if there is more than one workshop which can fulfill a particular job set (such as several ordinary [[glass furnace]]s dedicated to [[sand]] collection, plus several [[magma glass furnace]]s for actual glass production) then the manager will distribute the jobs amongst all those workshops. While this can be an advantage (for example, if you want to speed up the work orders by having multiple workshops), this will make it difficult to dedicate different workshops to different tasks. This can be prevented by entering the interface of specific workshops and moving to the Work orders menu; setting "General work orders allowed" to 0 will prevent the manager from assigning tasks.

==Note==
In older versions of df, options could be set to restrict the allowed tasks at any workshop using Workshop Profiles. This feature needed the manager but has been removed.

==See also==
* [[Work Orders]]
* [[Workshop]]

{{gamedata| [POSITION:MANAGER]
[NAME:manager:managers]
[SITE]
[REQUIRES_MARKET]
[NUMBER:1]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MANAGE_PRODUCTION]
[APPOINTED_BY:EXPEDITION_LEADER]
[APPOINTED_BY:MAYOR]
[PRECEDENCE:160]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[COLOR:5:0:0]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:1]}}
{{Nobles}}
{{Category|Appointed Nobles}}
{{Category|Interface}}

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Versions

2023-01-02T10:14:09Z

Halavus: /* v50 migration */

{{archive|
# [[DF Talk:Versions/Archive 1|Page 1]]}}

== Version 0.31.19 starts a new DF generation? ==

My reading of Toady's comments on the release of 0.31.19 is that it came out basically because he felt it would take too long to get DF all the way to 0.32. With the ore changes, the sitefinder changes, the addition of grazing and several different industries, there's a lot of changes between 31.18 and 31.19. So I'm thinking it might be a good idea to call it the first release of DF2011 - and what we refer to as "DF2010" would then become 0.31.18.

Thoughts? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:06, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

==Revisiting Redirects==

I wasn't around when the redirect policy was created, and I'm having trouble understanding the rationale. The example claims that linking [[Main:Cheese]] to [[cv:Cheese maker]] is problematic...but mainspace only ever redirects to the current version. If the best target in the current version is cheese maker, why not link to it directly? (It's not, at least for Cheese, since [[DF2012:Cheese]] exists now.) The explanation seems to be claiming that 40d articles that link to Cheese will follow the Mainspace link--but that hasn't been the case for a long while now. Articles in 40d automatically link against other articles in 40d, so that version remains internally consistent no matter where mainspace links to in the current version. For a current example, what do we gain by linking [[Main:Mead]] to [[cv:Mead]] and linking [[DF2012:Mead]] to [[DF2012:Alcohol]]?

If this really is just an outdated procedure, I recommend we drop the mummery and allow mainspace to link to cv:(best target). Double redirects ''may'' work (sometimes, but [[Main:Mead]] demonstrates a common problem where automatic redirection fails), but if they are unnecessary I think they should be avoided, partly because of problems like [[Main:Mead]] and partly because of the effort required to protect double redirects from users who believe they are problematic.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:16, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

:I was just thinking that. I'm currently attempting to write a basic extension to eliminate the need for mainspace redirects entirely, although Mediawiki's class structure may make this more difficult than I had hoped (the only method I've found for resolving redirects takes the ''article text'' instead of a title, e.g. "#REDIRECT ..."). I do agree that the current situation with redirects isn't ideal, so I'm hoping this will work better (once I get it to work). --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:42, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Okay, that wasn't quite as clear as I meant it to be. In general, I think this is a tricky situation. Mediawiki wasn't designed to have five content namespaces, and certainly not chains of redirects between them. The problem that was pointed out in the [[DF:REDIR|policy]] is the fact that with:
Main:Foo -> cv:Bar
pages in the cv: namespace can't use [[<nowiki/>foo]], since the namespace links modification causes it to be treated as [[<nowiki/>cv:foo]] instead, which doesn't exist. The current suggested solution is this:
Main:Foo -> cv:Foo -> cv:Bar
This fixes the problem of [[<nowiki/>foo]] not working on cv pages, but creates issues with double redirects not always working. Another solution, which is more intuitive to new editors, is:
Main:Foo -> cv:Bar
cv:Foo -> cv:Bar
Both require creating two redirects. The first method has the advantage of ''ensuring'' that the cv redirect exists (otherwise, main:foo would be a redlink), while the second has the advantage of working more reliably in a couple cases.

What I'm trying to do is make main:Foo "jump" to cv:Foo when cv:foo exists, ''even if main:foo doesn't exist'' (basically it would treat all mainspace pages as redirects to cv pages, but only if the cv page exists and not the mainspace page). I had main:Bar jumping to cv:Bar fine, but if cv:Foo redirected to cv:Bar, accessing main:Foo would mysteriously stop at cv:Foo even if I increased the redirect limit. What I'm trying to do now is follow the redirects internally, without relying on Mediawiki to do it automatically - unfortunately, that has proved to be harder than I had hoped (and I sent my web server into an infinite loop while trying). I will try to work on this some more when I get a chance, although I'm not sure when that'll be yet :(. For now, feel free to fix broken double mainspace redirects as necessary, as long as redirects in the DF2012 namespace stay pointing to the right page (and new mainspace redirects get added in the DF2012 namespace too). --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:21, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

:You're treating cv like a namespace--it's not. It is simply shorthand for "fill in the current version here". [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Briess&diff=182404&oldid=181281 As I discovered a long time ago on a server not far away], linking from Main:Foo to cv:Foo tends to break redirection chains. If, instead of linking to cv:Foo, you link to DF2012:Foo, it might just work. It would, of course, be better if your patch could evaluate cv itself, but even if you have to hardcode the current version it's a single point of maintenance that requires update very infrequently. (For that matter, we could probably dispense with the cv hack entirely and just have a bot update mainspace links from DF2012 to DF201X when we switch to a new version.)--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:05, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
::I know cv isn't a namespace - I was just trying to avoid future confusion when the DF2012 namespace changes. It's interesting that changing "cv" to "DF2012" fixes some broken redirects, although I've found that simply making an edit to a broken redirect can usually fix it as well. I've actually had the most problems with double redirects when the second one (in the DF2012 namespace) doesn't use the DF2012 prefix (e.g. main:Foo containing <nowiki>[[cv:Foo]] and DF2012:Foo containing [[Bar]]</nowiki>). I'd rather keep the cv alias even if it isn't necessary for mainspace redirects when I get the patch to work, since it makes it easier to refer to the current version of the page (for example, several MDF articles contain links to a vanilla page for things that don't change in the mod).
::Also, using aliases like "cv" is supported by Mediawiki; in fact, several WMF wikis use them (for example, "[[wikipedia:WP:Redirects|WP:Redirects]]" on Wikipedia). It's quite likely that Mediawiki isn't processing double redirects using aliases correctly, though, since that's uncommon on most wikis. --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:35, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

In light of the lack of support for the current redirect policy, I propose we replace the current redirect section with:

:Mainspace article pages should use the cv: alias when redirecting to a versioned page, which will automatically update the link when a new version is released. For example, page "Main:Foo" should redirect to page "cv:Bar" (where "Bar" is the page that best describes the topic Foo in the current version).

:Pages in mainspace should only redirect to an older versioned page if that content no longer exists in the current version of the game (e.g. [[Cave river]], [[Chunk]]). In these cases the cv: alias cannot be used.

:Pages inside a versioned namespace should not use the cv: alias. Instead, they should redirect to the best page within that versioned namespace (e.g. [[DF2012:Dodging]], [[v0.31:Drink]]).

:Due to limitations of the wiki software, double redirects should be avoided if possible. When fixing double redirects in mainspace, please make sure to use the cv: alias as appropriate.

If no one objects, I will make this change in a few days.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:21, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

:Okay with me. It may be worth mentioning that double redirects only really need to be changed when they don't work (since changing a lot of redirects that work isn't necessary), but I think it's clearer and more relevant than the current policy. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:26, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Done.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:55, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

I was finally able to get my extension to work after being motivated by one too many malfunctioning redirects. It now causes nonexistent pages in the main namespace to behave exactly like redirects to their DF2012 counterparts (when linked to, accessed directly, and transcluded). Double redirects also work (up to 100, in fact, although that was a temporary safety measure that I'll probably change). This means we'll be able to safely get rid of all mainspace redirects (redirects that redirect to something other than "cv" will still function if not deleted). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:20, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
:What about articles which don't exist in the current version but do exist in older versions? Will those still need mainspace redirects, or will your extension be able to automatically redirect them to v0.31/40d/23a? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 01:29, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
::It ignores all mainspace pages that actually have content, including redirects, so pages like [[masons guild]] won't be affected (unless deleted). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:47, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Done and deployed. [[Cat]] is still treated as a redirect, even though I just deleted it (try clicking on the "redirected from" link). Pages that exist are ignored, so [[Masons guild]] and [[History of Dwarf Fortress]] still function normally (as a redirect to a 23a page and a non-redirect, respectively). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm sending around a bot right now to delete all redirects of the format "foo -> cv:foo" (a surprising number don't fit this format, so I'm leaving them alone for now). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:43, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

:I'm confused. Do we use double redirects or not? Is there a single place we define our linking policy (including redirects), and is it updated?
:I had trouble linking to [[Consolidated_development]] in [[v0.34:Dragon]]. It kept pointing to v0.34:Consolidated_development, which does not exist. I ended up linking to Main:Consolidated_development to make it work. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] ([[User talk:Nahno|talk]]) 10:18, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

::That's a separate problem altogether - links in the versioned namespaces (v0.34, v0.31, 40d, 23a) automatically link to pages within their namespace. I may be able to set up a fallback to mainspace once I'm able to deploy again, but for now the "main:" alias is the intended solution. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 11:36, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

== Google often directs people to the 0.31 page ==

I've noticed a couple of times that finding a wiki page from an external search will often drop me onto a page from an older version. Is it possible to mitigate this somehow for new players? I could imagine something like redirecting old:Bar -> cv:Bar unless the user has come from old:Foo; no idea if that would actually work though. [[User:PeridexisErrant|PeridexisErrant]] ([[User talk:PeridexisErrant|talk]]) 11:48, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

:As a temporary solution, I could write a script that displays a banner of some kind if the user came from an external site. I'll ask Briess if he can do anything on the server level to increase the weighting of the current version's pages. (Obviously there are situations where people are looking for old pages, like [[23a:dungeon master]], so we don't want to disable indexing entirely on old pages.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:03, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

== DF2014? ==

As Toady [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ draws closer to a new release], it might be worthwhile to discuss the addition of a new version to the wiki. The upcoming release covers two years of changes and introduces a number of new plants, foods, drinks, multi-tile trees, climbing, jumping, etc., so it is likely to have significant changes from the current DF2012. To avoid having people start new pages (and lose all the effort spent refining the prior version's page), I think it would be best to have a bot automatically copy over the DF2012 pages as a starting point for DF2014. I would suggest that these copied pages include a noticebox template mentioning that the content may be outdated, so that we can easily track which pages have been reviewed. I think either the {{tl|version check}} or {{tl|old}} template would work. --[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:43, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

:This is what [[User:QuietBot]] did after the 0.34 release, so it's certainly possible to use the same script to migrate to DF2014. I would like a way of tagging migrated pages, since inaccuracies in some pages went unnoticed for months after they were migrated. Since {{tl|old}} is already in use, {{tl|version check}} may be a better solution (it can be reworded slightly, or we can make a separate template for DF2014 migration). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:23, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
:Made [[Template:DF2014 migrated]] as an example. Any thoughts? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:32, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

== Redirects inconsistency ==

Following a redirect is supposed to be exactly the same as going straight to the page it redirects to, but this actually isn't the case:
* Go to [[Seeds]] and you get [[v0.34:Seed]] (outdated)
* Go to http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Seeds&redirect=no and click on the link and you get to [[DF2014:Seed]] (current)
So if you search for "seed", the top result is the DF2014 version. But search for "seeds" and you get the redirect, which sends you to the outdated page instead. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 23:22, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

While I'm talking about redirects, it seems redirects to sections don't work: see [[DF2014:How do I manage my seeds and crops]]. I know MediaWiki is capable of this trick because Wikipedia does it. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 23:32, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

:I have absolutely no idea why [[seeds]] redirects to a v0.34 page - it could be a Mediawiki bug. The section links issue is due to a known issue in the redirect extension we use, which has yet to be fixed. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:01, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
:It looks like deleting both [[Seeds]] and [[DF2014:Seeds]] fixed things (by allowing AutoRedirect to handle the redirects instead). Feel free to tag any others with {{tl|bad redirect}}. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:03, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
::It gets stranger. [[Vial]] redirects explicitly to [[cv:Flask]] which displays (when you look at it with &redirect=no) as [[DF2014:Flask]], but still goes to the v0.34 version. It seems redirects interpret the cv: pseudo-namespace (or whatever it's called) in an outdated way. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 18:08, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
::I've added a note to this page about this issue. If it gets resolved, the note should be removed. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 21:04, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

==Reorganizing versions==

The internet deals with moved content... poorly. Google is still linking to v0.34 pages more than a year after the switch to "DF2014", and even the wiki software still has cached links pointing to the old version pages.

I propose reorganizing versions on the wiki to avoid moving content whenever possible. Instead of having a temporary "current version" namespace that changes occasionally, all the current information gets promoted to the Main namespace. When the next version split occurs, the Main articles as of a certain revision number can be copied to the newly-created permanent "old version" namespace, while all the current information remains in Main. This not only fixes the link rot issue, but it has a few other benefits as well: fewer administrative tasks, no lockdown (a historical version of the Main pages can be copied at any point, even if the Main articles are already modified for the new version), almost all the article history is maintained in the Main article (instead of being spread unevenly across multiple versions), no "temporary" namespaces are needed, fewer problematic long redirect chains, and hopefully less user confusion (since Main gets priority in search results, etc.).

As an example, today we would not have a DF2014 namespace (which is good because "temporary" namespaces historically disappear anyway). If you ran a search for [[seed]] you'd end up at Main:seed, which would have all the current information on seeds. The version box at the top of the page would still link to the older versions of the seed article. When a new version is released, an admin would choose a revision number and copy the Main:seed article as it exists at that revision number to v0.40:seed. That's it. One historical copy that needs little to no new editing, and zero redirections/moves.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:02, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

:Makes sense to me. It would involve a lot of work, though (e.g. fixing templates and categories to account for the current version being in mainspace), although that should be doable thanks to {{tl|category}}, {{tl|version switch}}, etc.. A bot could be set up to copy revisions from before a release date as well, which would be more difficult (and maybe slower) than a direct copy, but not severely. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:24, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

:Actually, there are a few issues with that, namely that there wouldn't be an easy way to distinguish between versioned and non-versioned mainspace pages. There are ways to resolve Google search priority (we can exclude pages from older versions from search engine results if there are newer versions of those pages available, for example). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:47, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::There aren't very many non-versioned mainspace pages, and determining if a page is versioned is as simple as looking for the version template and/or categories added by the version template (e.g. copy [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:Current this category] instead of Main:*). The problem with "suggesting" newer pages to Google is that they obviously aren't crawling our wiki regularly (if they were, the fact that the mainspace redirects point to new pages would automatically be picked up). Even if your Google hints worked they wouldn't do anything for all the other broken links out on the 'net.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:35, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::: Google actually crawls the wiki constantly - we probably get crawl hits from google for a continuous block of 2-3 hours per day, each and every day. Why they are slow to update is beyond me though. I can't remember why we didn't do this initially, but there was a technical limitation involved if I remember correctly. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] ([[User talk:Briess|talk]]) 22:05, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::: There are <meta> tags that can be used to hide pages from search results (for search engines that recognize them, that is). Searching for {{tl|av}} or [[:Category:Current]] might work, although we'd have to make sure all of the DF2014 pages include that (some pages don't, particularly some disambiguation pages, although all of them should). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:53, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

:Is there a particular reason main and current are separate to begin with?—[[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 00:17, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

::It's mostly intended to distinguish between versioned and non-versioned pages and make version-related templates simpler to work with, since every versioned page has a namespace. I wasn't active here in 2010 when this system was created, so Briess and Emi would know more.
::Another issue I just thought of with Loci's suggestion is categories - currently, categories like [[:Category:Animals]] are used to organize the versioned sub-categories. Sure, we can change {{tl|Category}} to categorize mainspace pages in [[:Category:v0.40:Animals]] or [[:Category:DF2014:Animals]], but that would be less straightforward because there wouldn't be a namespace with that name (until pages are migrated when a newer major version is released). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:05, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

:Moving current pages to the main namespace sounds like a great idea. -[[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] ([[User talk:Jecowa|talk]]) 20:47, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Another thought: dealing with migrating redirects could be difficult with this proposal - specifically, determining which redirects should be migrated to a versioned namespace. Redirects can't contain {{tl|av}}, at least not before ``#REDIRECT``. I ''think'' it would be possible to copy pages in two stages, though - all non-redirects first, then all redirects whose targets were also copied. Thoughts? Anything I'm missing? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:41, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Some subpages (particularly /raw and /Edit notice) also deliberately lack {{tl|av}}, although those shouldn't be too hard to handle. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:35, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

:Redirect pages (and all other edge cases I've looked at) can be included in categories (like [[:Category:Current]]) to determine whether or not they should be copied into an archival version. But if the redirects are "properly qualified" then they can all be copied over blindly. Mainspace redirects pointing to versioned information should use a blank namespace (which will be automatically constrained to the archival namespace); mainspace redirects pointing to unversioned information should use an explicit "Main" (which will automatically link back to the unversioned page). Then, when [[[[Toady]]]] gets copied to [[[[v0.4x:Toady]]]] it will point back to [[[[Main:Toady One]]]]. Meanwhile, [[[[Beer]]]], copied to [[[[v0.4x:Beer]]]], will properly point to [[[[v0.4x:Alcohol]]]].--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:00, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

::I think qualifying redirects is the best solution here - categorizing redirects manually is another possible source of errors, since categories (or a lack thereof) would only be visible on the redirect page itself, and [[:Category:Current]] is a hidden category. Copying over mainspace redirects into versioned namespaces would also resolve some issues that have come up due to those not reliably existing currently. I should be able to set up a bot script to add "main:" to current mainspace redirects (and it shouldn't break anything, since those redirects go to other mainspace pages anyway). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:57, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

(Note: I wrote all of this without noticing the previous discussion above.) I was wondering, when the wiki creates a new namespace for a major release again, if it is possible to ''not'' create a namespace for the next current version (e.g. "DF202x") and instead have the mainspace articles (which are currently redirects) become the new cv and move the content there. Therefore, [[cv:Cat]] would just be "[[Cat]]" (or [[Main:Cat]]).

Certain namespace-related templates like [[Template:Ns/0]] would need to be changed, though nothing significant as far as I know. For most cases, any "DF2014" would be replaced with "Main" or even blank. There's also multiple extensions handling the current namespace system and they may need to be modified too, though I'm not sure if or how much. I'm guessing based on the discussions above that it will change stuff up.

My reason is the current namespace is increasingly becoming more anachronistic. "DF2014" could be misinterpreted as "this page is about the 2014 version of the game" or "this page was last updated in 2014", which I've seen a few people in forums mention. Granted that [[Template:Av]] is on the top of very article, I still think the namespace is inconsistent with the recentness of the article. But how is this related to what I'm asking for? Let's say we continue the current system: if we happen to do a new namespace change this year and create DF2020, the next major release (after graphics/UI) will be mythgen, which is estimated to take several years to develop (the Big Wait), and so the anachronism will start over again. The proposed way will prevent this from occurring for the next major release and every release thereafter.

I think the confusion with having a namespace that becomes old-fashioned overtime supersedes the confusion with not marking current versioned articles with a namespace. Most users just search "Cat" on the search bar and naturally expect to get information about the latest release of DF. So if users go a page that's just titled "Cat", they won't expect outdated info about cats from a previous release. That's how the current system works anyways. We'll be skipping the two-step process that we have now. It'll make several wiki tasks much simpler as well. Editors can create new articles for current versions without remembering to add a namespace. It'll fix any existing issues with (double) redirects; instead of [[Main:Kitten]] redirecting to [[cv:Kitten]], which goes to [[DF2014:Kitten]], which then redirects to [[DF2014:Cat]], [[Main:Kitten]] would just redirect to [[Main:Cat]]. And the cv: alias will no longer be necessary since "cv:" = "Main:" and will be forever.

There's no need to differentiate the current version and previous versions with a namespace for the current version is what I'm saying. Articles of previous versions will retain their respective namespaces. Users will still type "40d:Cat" to go to the 40d version of the article, but if they want the current version, they'll just type "Cat" (like now). The mainspace containing the "live" version of an article is natural and would create no uncertainty when browsing the wiki. And it would simplify the wiki somewhat and future-proof this anachronism problem. As a bonus, this change will also prevent web search engines from showing previous version pages when typing "DF cat" or something. (This isn't happening right now as DF2014 has been the current namespace for ~6 years, but it'll happen again when everything moves to a new namespace.)

This is the gist of it, and I may have ignored most of the problems with this proposal. I have personally wished for the whole version namespacing be made less complicated and have been seeking for a solution, and I feel like this is the best way to go about in the future. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:27, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

:<s>Whoops, looks like Loci already proposed this exact thing long ago. I definitely missed that discussion and should have checked first. My apologies. I'll move my text to that section and remove this one. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:36, 14 August 2020 (UTC)</s> Done. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:40, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

:The main issue I have with that is that putting pages about the current version in a namespace also differentiates between those pages and pages not about ''any'' version (for example, [[Toady One]] does not need a 40d or v0.34 page). Yes, we can use {{tl|av}} to mark versioned pages, but people often forget to add that to new pages. The current system also allows determining whether a page is versioned or not from its title, which makes migrations a lot faster. Relying on {{tl|av}} would require either reading the content of every page (which would slow scripts down significantly) or cross-checking with the list of all pages including the template (feasible, but a bit more complicated, and still susceptible to missing templates). I suppose that manually fixing and migrating pages missing {{tl|av}} later wouldn't be too much work, though.
:I am definitely in favor of changing "DF2014" (or a new namespace) to "Current", though. I was in favor of "DF2014" in 2014, but I don't think it makes sense anymore, and "Current" seemed to be a popular alternative in both the DF2012 and DF2014 discussions on the matter. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:02, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

== Weird redirect behaviour ==

[[Pump stack]] redirects to [[cv:Screw pump#Pump stack]]. If you look at the redirect itself it says it redirects to DF2014 namespace, which is correct. But if you actually follow the redirect, it goes to v0.34 namespace. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 16:10, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
:Yeah, that's part of the issue described in the above section (the wiki caching part, not on Google's end.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:00, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

== v50 organization ==

Some wiki admins have had a talk on Discord and decided that the most sustainable path forward is to put content for all future versions of DF in the main namespace. We will be working on a bot to do this in the next few days. Feel free to chime in with suggestions here. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:56, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

:Is it maybe possible to do backwards-namespacing? Like we have a "Main" namespace, which people are free to update, and whenever there's a new version of DF the "Main" namespace is copied into a namespace for the then old version, much like how you'd branch a stable branch from a development branch when working with a git-project? [[User:Therahedwig|Therahedwig]] ([[User talk:Therahedwig|talk]]) 23:13, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

::Yeah, we could do that if we decide to. We were talking about doing that for v50, actually, and might still do something similar to preserve edit history if it doesn't end up being too hard to automate. Our hope is that we will not introduce new namespaces for v50 -> v5x, unless there is a serious breaking change (and hopefully there isn't one). But if we change our mind, one advantage of the type of migration you mentioned is that it can be done retroactively - we can copy historical revisions that were current at the time of the release, and would only lose some typo fixes made after the release that apply to earlier versions as well. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:11, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

ETA is < 24 hours. Doing some final checks on a migration script. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 07:08, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

: We should really have a task list as there are many things that change and need updating. Including but not limited to:
:* Most templates that used the previous namespace convention broke, including nav templates.
:* Many game files changed locations and their pages need to be updated.
:* Raws need to be updated.
:* Various features added, changed, removed.
:* UI has been changed -- though I am more inclined to wait for classic release to avoid extra work --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 06:56, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

"''Raws need to be updated.''" Including applying text wraparound where necessary, I suppose - more than a few of them have proven to be that special kind of...''difficult'' to navigate otherwise, shall we say? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:There is already a task list in the [[#v50 migration|section below]] that includes templates and raws, with an explanation. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

== v50 migration ==

The initial migration script is done. New content is in the '''main''' namespace, e.g. [[Cat]]. Old content is still at [[DF2014:Cat]]. History was migrated to the ''new'' (main namespace) articles.

I know several things are broken still. Please reply if you find any others:
<div style="border-left: 2px solid red">
* <s>Versioned templates haven't been migrated yet (e.g. {{tl|vermin}} on [[Ant]])</s>
** Fixed. Most were migrated by a bot.
* Raws are missing on all pages that use them.
** This also affects sidebars, such as on [[Cat]] and [[Microcline]].
** Update: The DFRawFunctions extension has been upgraded to include v50 raws, using the "v50:" prefix for filenames instead of "DF2014:". I haven't finished a migration script to create the /raw pages themselves, but they can typically be created manually by copying the DF2014 /raw pages and changing "DF2014" to "v50" everywhere. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:20, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
* Some pages where the DF2014 page was a redirect to a main namespace page that contained content were migrated incorrectly.
** In this case, the main namespace page is usually a redirect to itself. This can be fixed by undoing LethosorBot's edit to the main namespace page, then copying the content to the DF2014 page.
** Update: most seem to have been fixed manually - thanks! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
* <s>Some main-namespace talk pages redirect to DF2014 talk pages. Some of these redirects work, and some (usually older ones) do not.</s>
** Fixed with a bot. Some redirects from talk pages to other deleted talk pages are now broken, e.g. [[Talk:Above_ground]] (exists) -> [[Talk:Tile attributes]] (redlink). I am leaving them like that because they redirect to where the talk page should be created, but I'm also fine with people deleting them if they really want to. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
* {{tl|quality}} for new articles is disabled (see below)
* Some links from DF2014 to Main weren't working: e.g. the version selector [[DF2014:Mason's workshop]] was linking to [[DF2014:Main:Mason's workshop]] instead of [[Main:Mason's workshop]]. I'm not sure exactly why, but I fixed it with a change to the NamespaceLinks extension. Let me know if you spot similar broken links. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:19, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
</div>

—[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:54, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:The quality levels of the 50.03 pages seem to be missing. I'm not sure if that's covered under that first point. [[User:Trainzack|Trainzack]] ([[User talk:Trainzack|talk]]) 06:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::If the the [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Quality]] feature can be made to work with namespace scheme change, I suggest to automatically assign the lowest quality rating to all pages, alternately add the {{tl|old}} to all pages. Otherwise there will be a lot of pages that will fall through the cracks. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:12, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::I disabled {{tl|quality}} in the main namespace because it would require some rework to make the rating script and the template work properly there. Feel free to take a stab at the template. I will see what can be done on the extension side. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

It appears some pages are redirecting recursively and never resolving correctly, like the [[https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Character_table&redirect=no|character table]] and [[tileset repository]] 07:35, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
: Indeed, these can be caught here: [[Special:DoubleRedirects]] --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:51, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

It might be useful to change the notice title to "release information '''for editors'''" --[[Special:Contributions/142.59.195.176|142.59.195.176]] 10:26, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Can do. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::New here, hello. Should we set a date where we remove/only show the banner for logged in users. There are (some) pages that have 4 different notices about the upgrade. [[Engraving]] is one such page, the top banner states "information for editors", we then have the "this page was migrated" banner, a version selection which warns the article might be inaccurate, and a smaller banner saying the page might need to be updated. Quite a lot of screen space, I think we can start to slowly reduce the amount of warnings this coming month? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 10:07, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Main talkpages seem to redirect to DF2014 talk. Not sure if it is intentional but I like it, though we should pay attention when creating new discussion relating to v50 ending up there.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 14:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:That's unintentional. I specifically wrote the migration script to not move talk pages, but that has the side-effect of leaving any previously-created "Talk -> DF2014 talk" redirects intact. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Yo Lethosor, are we adding graphic sprites for the pages in some way? Or are we waiting for you to add some sort of new template or something? I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that the current templates don't allow that. Not sure if I'm allowed to change/create any templates either, as I don't want to break things for hundreds of pages. Edit: And IF the icons are allowed, should they be left alone, or 2×-3× sized like how the Minecraft wiki does it? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 14:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Depends on which templates you mean. There are copyright concerns with uploading a premium sprite sheet, for instance. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::I'm not talking about uploading an entire sprite sheet. I'm just talking about individual icons for each respective page. One image for cows, one for horses, one for werebeasts, etc. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 16:50, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::If we do that for every creature in the sprite sheet, that's not much different (in terms of copyright) from uploading the entire sprite sheet. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:09, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::Is there someone we can talk to about that? We finally get this new game with graphics, and then we can't use the very graphics of the game? No matter what the rules are, I'd say that would be the stupidest thing ever. I know I'm infamous here when it comes to copyright and images and stuff, but about 80% of game wikis out there are completely unofficial, and use game file images like no one's business. I can't imagine anyone's door being knocked on if we used the game's sprites, but I won't add any here until we have a go-ahead. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 17:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::...I've made noise in Mayday's direction on this matter, at least (prob an incorrect maneuver, ''but'').[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 17:55, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::: I hope some sort of arrangement can be made so we can use the new sprites with permission/limits, just as we are using the raw files. Otherwise we are all (devs and editors alike) shooting ourselves in the foot here.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 21:07, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::::I just thought of something. We're supposedly not allowed to upload entire sprite sheets, right? What if - for the time being - we just use a few of them for the purpose of testing out new infoboxes? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:46, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::I don't know. If someone could ask Kitfox and post the response here, that would be great. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::::::I've reached out to Alexandra, but she hasn't answered yet. Until then I found these old approvals from the previous community manager, Feeona: ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.msg8243633#msg8243633 link1], [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176640.msg8243642#msg8243642 link2]). Waiting for a newer response until we begin mass uploads is probably the politer option, but like Zippy said, it is also standard for wikis to use game sprites with less approval. I second their idea of trying it out with a few images to test the infoboxes. On the extreme off-chance (and I do think it is) Kitfox protests we can always remove these few. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 22:19, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::And here is a third, more official statement: ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.msg8249718#msg8249718 link3]). Perhaps that address of info@kitfoxgames.com is the better channel to ask for a confirmation, rather than Discord DMs, but I will be going to bed, so it is best if someone else does that. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 22:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::Thanks for tracking this down! Ok, sprites should be fine, but let's avoid uploading the entire premium tileset as a single image, for instance (as the forum thread says, "use common sense"). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:21, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::: Looks good, permission is always preferable over fairuse, I think it is a win win for all involved. I agree that we shouldn't upload entire sprite sheets (e.g. there is no reason to upload the windmill from every direction or whole construction phase for workshops) and that there are a lot of details that needs to be ironed out through testing. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 05:07, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::We have a green light on uploading all and any sprites. Their response to me can be seen [https://i.imgur.com/BhmHjzC.png here]. I'm sure someone else confirmed it before me. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:00, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Shifting temporarily to a new issue, is the documentation of [[Template:ArticleVersion]] outdated? It would seem so to me, since the current version no longer has its own namespace, with the templates needing updating being different ones. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 18:30, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:I think it is still accurate enough. We left open the possibility of making another namespace in the future, albeit with a different migration strategy - see [[#v50 organization|above]]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Some Changes to infoboxes might be needed. Too bad [[User:Doorkeeper]] isn't around. He did a great work with navbox project--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:52, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

I just realized that raw files aren't stored as regular wiki pages but loaded via the DFRawFunctions extension (hence the need to update). Good news it's going to be handled in bulk, consistently and relatively easy to updated. Even better it's Lethosor problem ;) Also I just realized that all the "raw files" (txt files in the new vanilla folder) are released into the public domain. Both are probably not news to the vets but I'll leave it here for those who less up to date like myself. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:35, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

: I noticed that some templates aren't working properly in the new namespace, e.g. [[Basalt]] entry had its raw updated manually but the infobox fail to show any details. Cursory look suggest {{t|layerlookup/0}} need a minor tweak. This should do the work
:: Replace: <nowiki>{{layerlookup/aux|{{{{FULLPAGENAME}}/raw}}|uses={{{uses|}}}|wiki={{{wiki|}}}}}</nowiki>
:: With___: <nowiki>{{layerlookup/aux|{{</nowiki>:<nowiki>{{FULLPAGENAME}}/raw}}|uses={{{uses|}}}|wiki={{{wiki|}}}}}</nowiki>
: Not sure what the plan and ETA with raws update so I didn't touch this high usage template for now. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 08:11, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

::Please do feel free to make this update. I am still working on a script to create the <code>/raw</code> pages themselves. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be an idea to add to the Sitenotice to remove the {{tl|migrated article}} tag when an article has been fully updated? I see many articles that seem to be updated still have the tag. And/or advise to make use of the {{tl|verify}} for sections still in need of checking? --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 10:12, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== v50 specific issues ==
=== Graphics===
Follow up on the use of game sprites and the need to trying it out with a few images to test the infoboxes. First sprite [[:File:Beds v50.png]] was uploaded and used on [[Bed]] entry. Any thoughts? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:06, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:Seems like it should be rearranged to be horizontal. Also, has there been a serious discussion about copyright? Full screenshots are 100% fine, but you start going into a grey area when you upload pieces of a spritesheet. I'm of the opinion that it's all fine as long as it's inconvenient to reconstruct the full sheet from the individual images. Maybe a further restriction could be you shouldn't upload any of the art unless it's used in an infobox (maybe an exception for pieces of the UI). And one more restriction could be you shouldn't show everything, like in your bed example, maybe just the wooden bed is good enough, leave out the stone and metal, especially since those can only be made from strange moods. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:43, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::Actually, your bed image is kinda bad for showing off what a bed looks like because it doesn't show the pillow/blankets. That might point to cropped screenshots being the best path, although less convenient for the uploader, as you don't get details left out. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:46, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::I created a new license template [[Template:Copyright game]], based it on the way the RimWorld wiki does things. Call it a prototype, but it's probably how your bed image should be labelled. Indeed, I added it to it already. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]])

::: I agree that the horizontal arrangement would suit better here and that we should strive to represent how things look in-game. Otherwise, I am not too concerned about people being able to reconstruct anything (lets just say that ''anyone'' interested in that can get the real thing from the game files), also it seem we have permission to use the sprits on top of fairuse. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 19:55, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

::: Modifying the existing template to allow the inclusion of the new sprites is easy (Something like [https://ibb.co/zFXCrjd this]?) The big question is the matter of consistency is there any exceptions that will break the format (size wise with variant bloat for example), the sprite naming format, etc --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:44, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::: If we are going to show a variant for each material type, then maybe these should be added as separate images so we can add a tooltip for each image. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:49, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

:I've got another prototype going here and here: [[User:Brightgalrs/vector.css]] and [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox]]. (You'll need to add the css stuff to your own /vector.css). Basically it's a way to recolor images using css classes. No idea if there's a better way. Also, the real implementation would require a change to [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:Should mention, there ''is'' a different way, just upload each image 16 times, one for each coloring. But maybe that's not very elegant. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:45, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

: It should be noted that soon the classic edition will be released, hence one should plan to have both the Premium and classic alongside in that little space --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 03:14, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::I'm looking into a tab extension to potentially support this in infoboxes. Perhaps [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Tabs Extension:Tabs]? I tried [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TabberNeue Extension:TabberNeue], but it displays a placeholder if JavaScript is disabled, which isn't great. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: The Neue Tabber seem to works pretty much like the old one (which fandom [https://coding-help.fandom.com/wiki/Tabber#Adding_images_into_tabbers still use]) defaulting to showing the first tab only. Quick look suggest that neue work the same, plus the notice that 'Tabber requires Javascript to function' warning? if so, and if it is a bother, then you should be able to edit out the tabberneue-noscript string in code. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 06:29, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: I much prefer your tabber solution, but if that fails we can also use the gallery slideshow mode. If so, beware it has no way to control image size so the images have to be maliciously uploaded using the exact same size. example:
<gallery mode="slideshow">
File:SteelSample.png
File:TinSample.png
File:ZincSample.png
File:GoldSample.png
</gallery> --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:19, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

==== adding premium set to Infobox ====
I am unclear where are we going with this? 
1) Will (A) tabs be implemented, (B) we be using mediawiki toggle [[Template_talk:V50_workshop|example]] for premium and classic/blocked, (c) put images side by side, or (d) something else? 
2) Also [[silver]] and [[Pig iron]] use very different image style for example. 
3) Anything else you want ? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 12:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

: Personally, I would love tabs to be implemented, but I think that side by side might be best for most. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 12:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
: Here is rough layout we can use. It should fit most buildings given the default sprite size. There is also a different floor plan for both (inspired by reddit)

{|
|- valign=top
|
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse; "
|+ 5x5
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc; "
|<div class="mw-customtoggle-infoboxtab mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="border-top-right-radius: 10px; border-top-left-radius:10px;">toggle</div>
|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|- valign=top
|colspan=2|<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">
[[File:Siege workshop.png|center|160px]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab"">
{|
|rowspan=2 style="width:50%; font-size: 125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Siege workshop}}</center>
|style="line-height: 1em; font-size: 125%;"|
{| style="border-spacing:4px;"
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|}
|-
| style="text-align: center;" | Layout
|}
</div>
|}
|
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse; "
|+ 3x3
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc; "
|colspan=2 style="text-align: right;"|<div class="mw-customtoggle-infoboxtab mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="float:left; border-top-right-radius: 10px; border-top-left-radius:10px;">toggle</div>{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|- valign=top
|rowspan=2 style="width:50%;"|
<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">[[File:Carpenter's workshop.png]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab""><center>
{| style="font-size: 175%; border-spacing: 0; background-color: black; border: 2px solid black"
|- 
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|"|7:0:0}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|{{=}}|6:0:0}}
|-
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
|-
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|]|0:0:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
|}</center></div>
|
{| style="border-spacing:5px;"
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|}
|-
| style="text-align: center;" | Layout
|}
</div>
|
{| style="width:200px; height:100px; padding:10px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse;"
|+ 1x1
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc;"
| colspan=3 style="text-align:center;"|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|-
| style="border-right: 1px dotted #545557;"|[[File:Screw_press.png|32px|center|link=]]
| style="font-size:125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Screw press}}</center>
| style="border-left: 1px dotted #545557;"|<center>{{Template:Floor Plan Screw press}}</center>
|}
|
{| style="width:200px; height:100px; padding:10px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse;"
|+ 1x3
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc;"
| colspan=3 style="text-align:center;"|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|-
| style="border-right: 1px dotted #545557;"|[[File:water_wheel.png|32px|center|link=]]
| style="font-size:125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Water wheel}}</center>
| style="border-left: 1px dotted #545557;line-height:normal;"|<center>{{Template:Floor Plan Water wheel}}</center>
|}
|}
:Any thoughts on the direction and or any and all of its elements? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:16, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

::I kind of like side-by-side, if it fits. If anyone wants to implement a toggle button or tabs, I would ask that that be implemented in a template for now, so that e.g. we could change a toggle button to tabs in a single place if we decide to install an extension to support that. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:14, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

::: I noticed a comment saying that [[impassable tile]] are no longer used in v50, is that true for all constructions? If so, floor plans are no longer needed, making things much easier as we can fit everything in except the 5v5 constructions like trade depot (and even these can be placed one above the other if so desired). If not, any thought on the alternative floor plan design? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:46, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

:::: None of the constructions have blocking tiles any more from my experience playing. I haven't tested siege weaponry with that stuff, but none of the workshops have it, nor does any furniture. (walls and fortifications will of course obstruct movement [[User:AndrielChaoti|AndrielChaoti]] ([[User talk:AndrielChaoti|talk]]) 18:47, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
::::: Ok, I have removed them from v50. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 23:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I have added a basic side by side variant to [[Template:V50 workshop]] and [[Template:Building]] for testing, let us know if there any issues. Few notes:
* The default image naming scheme of <code>workshop-name.png</code> will likely conflict with existing images here or on commons, maybe another naming scheme should be used like <code>v50 workshop-name.png</code> as it is with ascii pictures.
* There is inconsistency in image size. If you want to use large zoomed images then toggle is best, otherwise they need to be all in native size (96px for 3x3).
* In the current version the code roughly centers the images and if there is a big image like with [[Siege workshop]] it drops to a new line --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 23:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Bizarre palette-swapping idea/prototype ====
No idea if this is a good idea, since it takes a bit of time to set up, and there might be some performance issues... and maybe display issues?

But take a look at this:
{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock|palette-name=amber}}

It's way to swap palettes on an image, although the image itself is a table, with each cell representing a pixel. The template itself looks like this:
<code><nowiki>{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock|palette-name=saffron}}</nowiki></code>
Input the pattern and desired palette name.

I've got a larger showcase here: [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwapShowcase]]. Only did a rock pattern so far, but all palettes are implemented.
The major use for this would be on each stone, metal, wood, etc. type's page. The palette could be read directly from the raws. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 03:22, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

:From a technical perspective, my primary concern is indeed performance. Both on the server side and client side, a large number of tables that large (in terms of markup and cell count, that is) tend to be resource-intensive to generate and render. I saw your image-filtering experiments on [[User:Brightgalrs/vector.css]], and while that strikes me as a newer and less-backwards-compatible approach, it would probably be more resource-friendly.
:Is this color adjustment something the game is doing natively? i.e. does this accurately match what the game displays? I bet we could slap together an image-filtering extension (or find an existing one?) that can do this if needed. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:49, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah that's what I suspected. The images the template creates are spot on, checked it against a screenshot I took of some mica rocks in-game. The css stuff is unfortunately totally incorrect, was cool to learn about it though, so not a complete waste of my time :p. The premium, in-game graphics are true sprites, basically patterns of indexed colors. Each of the in-game colors (which are significantly expanded over the 16 ascii colors, there's 116/117) there is a palette defined in "\Dwarf Fortress\data\vanilla\vanilla_descriptors_graphics\graphics\images\palettes.png". Each indexed color of the sprite is swapped for the corresponding color in the palette. Because of that, the css stuff doesn't work since it's doing the hue/saturation/brightness changes to the entire sprite.
::I've looked into an existing mediawiki extension, couldn't find anything. One thing I did't really look at is some type of lua script/module that would basically emulate what the game is doing. So some function that takes in the base image as well as the desired palette, and based on that finds and replaces each color. No idea what mediawiki's capabilities are on that front. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 05:31, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
:::We do have Scribunto installed now, so it's totally possible to do something in Lua too - forgot about that. I can add you to the group that grants access to edit the Module namespace if you want to give that a shot. If we use an extension, we'd probably need a custom one, similar to DFDiagram (or perhaps DFDiagram could be extended - it's in dire need of a rewrite anyway). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:43, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::::I asked around on the mediawiki irc, I think scribunto/lua is a deadend, at least for taking an uploaded image and doing stuff to it with a lua script. However I did come up with this even more bizarre solution, using block elements. [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwapShowcase2]], maybe less resource intensive? Definitely displays a lot worse though, probably unusable.
::::{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock2|palette-name=saffron}}
::::I dunno, maybe none of this is worth it and we should just write some external program to put all the images together offline, and then just mass upload. It wouldn't be ''that'' many... [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 06:37, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

====Is there an easy way to just paste images from the clipboard?====

I use KDE spectacle to take screenshots straight to the clipboard (after cropping) -- is there an easy way to just paste (and auto-upload) an image into an article? It would make it a lot easier to contribute images. [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 23:35, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Unfortunately there is not. I would be open to a MediaWiki extension to support this if someone finds one. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:32, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:: Looks like this could do it, but I haven't used it before: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SimpleBatchUpload

=== Hotkeys/Menu navigation ===
Most key bindings and menus have changed. Should the article reflect a) only the old version, b) only the GUI version or c) both? For example, [[Bridge|bridges]] used to be built via {{k|b}} -> {{k|g}}, but now it's in Place strucutures {{k|b}} -> Constructions {{k|n}} -> Bridge {{k|b}}. What should be written in the article? Currently, it's {{k|b}} -> {{k|g}}. I ''think'' it should be only b), but I am not sure if there will be differences regarding hotkeys or menus between the premium version and the free version and then, c) would be the most appropriate option. --[[User:Prometherus|Prometherus]] ([[User talk:Prometherus|talk]]) 10:16, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

: Not sure. I wish the classic release soon --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 16:45, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:: Are you Toady's herald? Looks like it was just released! [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:18, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:: And our questions are answered, the old hotkeys seem to have been thrown out. Part of me is disappointed (useless muscle memory) but also relieved (unified UI for both versions is good in general and for the wiki). [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:25, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: According to info, in a sort of 'demo version' at that. I'll wait a little while longer, for myself.[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 18:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::::It's unlikely that keybindings in it will change significantly. My vote is that we should include information for both premium and classic, everywhere. Hopefully the keybindings are not different between versions. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:26, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Shouldn't it be based on the 50 or what verion the article is written for? [[User:Dominick|Dominick]] [[User_talk:dominick|(TALK)]] 18:42, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:::: The keybindings seem to be consistent between versions, (haven't checked exhausitvely, but since the menu layout is the same I think it is a good assumption). Should also keep in mind/consider that not all actions have keybindings. An option would be write 'Click on the <Example Text> icon or press {{k|E}}' [[User:Koos|Koos]] ([[User talk:Koos|talk]]) 23:14, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

=== Removed features & concepts ===

Since they're removed concepts, I've set [[Room]] to be a redirect for [[DF2014:Room]] and created [[Template:Activity zones]] for the nav bar bedrooms, etc, and made the necessary changes to [[Bedroom]] for it. Is this the correct approach, before I go on much further? (also a note, if it is, then [[Template:v50_rooms]] probably needs to be deleted) I also imagine that considering the number of changes in the interface, that things like [[Adventure mode]] and related pages might best be truncated to "not in 50.03" and when it does make it across, being more deliberately brought over in pieces? [[User:HawkOwl|HawkOwl]] ([[User talk:HawkOwl|talk]]) 06:23, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:Usually it is marked with [[Template:Removed_feature]]. For example: [[Dipscript]] or [[Party]]. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:45, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:: Ah, that's fair. Should that be mentioned in [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Versions#Redirects]]? [[User:HawkOwl|HawkOwl]] ([[User talk:HawkOwl|talk]]) 10:03, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:::I think the redirect policy mostly had in mind things that were removed a ''long'' time ago, like [[Tax collector]] and [[Economy]] (and the latter actually has a stub page as well). I guess we could clarify. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:34, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: The "current" redirects also cause the version box to incorrectly show that the current version has a page - e.g. [[23a:Cave_river]] shows a v50.04 version, but it's just a redirect back to that version. Similarly, what should happen to redirects like [[Clothes maker]], where a concept has evolved? It currently goes to [[23a:Clothes maker]] - that's correct if the user is trying to look up a very old concept, but if a new user is looking for "how to make clothes", they should be directed to [[Clothier]]. --[[User:Danny252|Danny252]] ([[User talk:Danny252|talk]]) 12:16, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: One should be careful with cv redirects. Most that were recently adjusted were unused plural forms (that should probably be deleted) but few like [[Crown]] needed that for backward compatibility. Removing the [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&type=revision&diff=279966&oldid=219482 cv part] means the the link on [[v0.31:Tilesets]] is now broken. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 22:30, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::If [[v0.31:Tilesets]] is about v0.31, it should not be using "main:" in its links - ''all'' of those links are going to pages about v50, not v0.31, regardless of whether the target is a redirect or not. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:37, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::: You right, I removed it. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 17:55, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Crown cv redir issue is now fixed, I believe. As goes with such cases where one can simply revert the troublesome edit, unless I've mistepped, myself? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 23:52, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
:Both [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&diff=prev&oldid=280026] and [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&diff=prev&oldid=279966] should not have had any effect, because "cv" is an alias to the main namespace now, just like "main". Proof: [[Crown]], [[cv:Crown]], [[main:Crown]]. It's possible caching is coming into play here, although I purged the redirect cache after making that alias change earlier this month... —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:02, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

I think there have been some changes not captured, but as a newb, I'm afraid to edit the page(s). A good example is Strawberry. I'm playing the Steam version right now and Strawberry plants are "not relevant to brewing" in Labor > kitchen > veg / fruit / leaves. Unless I'm mistaken and need to process them? Another example is the trade caravan = it seems the 3 square pathing no longer happens; it's just yak(s). 12:31, 28 December 2022 (UTC) 12:29, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, none of the workshop buildings in v50 have blocking tiles any more. There's a comment to the like in data/vanilla/vanilla_buildings/objects/building_custom.txt that says this "[BLOCK:1:0:0:0] workbenches no longer block". Hesitant to update that template as I'm not sure if it's referenced for all of the old versions too. [[User:AndrielChaoti|AndrielChaoti]] ([[User talk:AndrielChaoti|talk]]) 05:54, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

=== creature infobox prototype (moved) ===

Check it out, I made a temporary template and added it to the [[cow]]s page. Now it shows the sprites (but not the zombified versions yet). I wanted to show everyone a prototype of what v50 creature infoboxes should look like. Or at least something similar to it. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:11, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
:Hi, I'm new to editing wikis but I have done a bit of work with sprite sheets and I've been going through the DF data files to find the different graphics hoping to help with the animal pages. I've thrown together a template with grass and a few nature sprites (plants, a tree, and a rock) for size reference but I'm unsure how large the 'display' tiles in the middle of the template should be to suit all animals. I can see in the sprite sheets that some land animals have an adult and child sprite, so two tiles. Others have a male, female, and child, but after seeing you include the zombie cows I'm unsure if I should make it twice the size to add them too. Alternatively, I could grab some tiles from the haunted biomes for the zombie animals and make a separate template for a side-by-side comparison. Either way, let me know if this helps. I'd like to help with other graphics too as we add the premium tilesets but the animals seemed the easiest to tackle with me being new to wiki editing. ~~[[User:UristTheSeventh|UristTheSeventh]]

=== When do we remove the migration note on specific pages? ===

At what point can we remove the "this page was auto migrated from v47" warning? There are a bunch of small pages that are more or less accurate, if I've reviewed them, can I go ahead and remove the warning? [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 23:33, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Yes, feel free to remove it if you think all content is accurate. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== Toggleable image ==

Any objections/comments to using this template for now for toggling between classic and premium images? I'd probably rename it to "Template:Premium-classic thumb image". I'm sure someone can come up with a better UI eventually, but should be easy to migrate at that point. I also think we should use the same customtoggle class for this and for the infobox. [[User:NiftyManiac|NiftyManiac]] ([[User talk:NiftyManiac|talk]]) 23:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

{{User:NiftyManiac/Sandbox/TemplateDualImage|
premium=File:Quickstart-finder.png|
classic=File:Quickstart-finder-partial.png
}}

{{User:NiftyManiac/Sandbox/TemplateDualImage|
premium=File:Quickstart-finder.png|
classic=File:Quickstart-finder-partial.png|
caption=My caption|
width=100px
}}

:This looks nice to me! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:30, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Versions

2023-01-02T10:13:51Z

Halavus: /* v50 organization */

{{archive|
# [[DF Talk:Versions/Archive 1|Page 1]]}}

== Version 0.31.19 starts a new DF generation? ==

My reading of Toady's comments on the release of 0.31.19 is that it came out basically because he felt it would take too long to get DF all the way to 0.32. With the ore changes, the sitefinder changes, the addition of grazing and several different industries, there's a lot of changes between 31.18 and 31.19. So I'm thinking it might be a good idea to call it the first release of DF2011 - and what we refer to as "DF2010" would then become 0.31.18.

Thoughts? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:06, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

==Revisiting Redirects==

I wasn't around when the redirect policy was created, and I'm having trouble understanding the rationale. The example claims that linking [[Main:Cheese]] to [[cv:Cheese maker]] is problematic...but mainspace only ever redirects to the current version. If the best target in the current version is cheese maker, why not link to it directly? (It's not, at least for Cheese, since [[DF2012:Cheese]] exists now.) The explanation seems to be claiming that 40d articles that link to Cheese will follow the Mainspace link--but that hasn't been the case for a long while now. Articles in 40d automatically link against other articles in 40d, so that version remains internally consistent no matter where mainspace links to in the current version. For a current example, what do we gain by linking [[Main:Mead]] to [[cv:Mead]] and linking [[DF2012:Mead]] to [[DF2012:Alcohol]]?

If this really is just an outdated procedure, I recommend we drop the mummery and allow mainspace to link to cv:(best target). Double redirects ''may'' work (sometimes, but [[Main:Mead]] demonstrates a common problem where automatic redirection fails), but if they are unnecessary I think they should be avoided, partly because of problems like [[Main:Mead]] and partly because of the effort required to protect double redirects from users who believe they are problematic.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:16, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

:I was just thinking that. I'm currently attempting to write a basic extension to eliminate the need for mainspace redirects entirely, although Mediawiki's class structure may make this more difficult than I had hoped (the only method I've found for resolving redirects takes the ''article text'' instead of a title, e.g. "#REDIRECT ..."). I do agree that the current situation with redirects isn't ideal, so I'm hoping this will work better (once I get it to work). --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:42, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Okay, that wasn't quite as clear as I meant it to be. In general, I think this is a tricky situation. Mediawiki wasn't designed to have five content namespaces, and certainly not chains of redirects between them. The problem that was pointed out in the [[DF:REDIR|policy]] is the fact that with:
Main:Foo -> cv:Bar
pages in the cv: namespace can't use [[<nowiki/>foo]], since the namespace links modification causes it to be treated as [[<nowiki/>cv:foo]] instead, which doesn't exist. The current suggested solution is this:
Main:Foo -> cv:Foo -> cv:Bar
This fixes the problem of [[<nowiki/>foo]] not working on cv pages, but creates issues with double redirects not always working. Another solution, which is more intuitive to new editors, is:
Main:Foo -> cv:Bar
cv:Foo -> cv:Bar
Both require creating two redirects. The first method has the advantage of ''ensuring'' that the cv redirect exists (otherwise, main:foo would be a redlink), while the second has the advantage of working more reliably in a couple cases.

What I'm trying to do is make main:Foo "jump" to cv:Foo when cv:foo exists, ''even if main:foo doesn't exist'' (basically it would treat all mainspace pages as redirects to cv pages, but only if the cv page exists and not the mainspace page). I had main:Bar jumping to cv:Bar fine, but if cv:Foo redirected to cv:Bar, accessing main:Foo would mysteriously stop at cv:Foo even if I increased the redirect limit. What I'm trying to do now is follow the redirects internally, without relying on Mediawiki to do it automatically - unfortunately, that has proved to be harder than I had hoped (and I sent my web server into an infinite loop while trying). I will try to work on this some more when I get a chance, although I'm not sure when that'll be yet :(. For now, feel free to fix broken double mainspace redirects as necessary, as long as redirects in the DF2012 namespace stay pointing to the right page (and new mainspace redirects get added in the DF2012 namespace too). --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:21, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

:You're treating cv like a namespace--it's not. It is simply shorthand for "fill in the current version here". [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Briess&diff=182404&oldid=181281 As I discovered a long time ago on a server not far away], linking from Main:Foo to cv:Foo tends to break redirection chains. If, instead of linking to cv:Foo, you link to DF2012:Foo, it might just work. It would, of course, be better if your patch could evaluate cv itself, but even if you have to hardcode the current version it's a single point of maintenance that requires update very infrequently. (For that matter, we could probably dispense with the cv hack entirely and just have a bot update mainspace links from DF2012 to DF201X when we switch to a new version.)--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:05, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
::I know cv isn't a namespace - I was just trying to avoid future confusion when the DF2012 namespace changes. It's interesting that changing "cv" to "DF2012" fixes some broken redirects, although I've found that simply making an edit to a broken redirect can usually fix it as well. I've actually had the most problems with double redirects when the second one (in the DF2012 namespace) doesn't use the DF2012 prefix (e.g. main:Foo containing <nowiki>[[cv:Foo]] and DF2012:Foo containing [[Bar]]</nowiki>). I'd rather keep the cv alias even if it isn't necessary for mainspace redirects when I get the patch to work, since it makes it easier to refer to the current version of the page (for example, several MDF articles contain links to a vanilla page for things that don't change in the mod).
::Also, using aliases like "cv" is supported by Mediawiki; in fact, several WMF wikis use them (for example, "[[wikipedia:WP:Redirects|WP:Redirects]]" on Wikipedia). It's quite likely that Mediawiki isn't processing double redirects using aliases correctly, though, since that's uncommon on most wikis. --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:35, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

In light of the lack of support for the current redirect policy, I propose we replace the current redirect section with:

:Mainspace article pages should use the cv: alias when redirecting to a versioned page, which will automatically update the link when a new version is released. For example, page "Main:Foo" should redirect to page "cv:Bar" (where "Bar" is the page that best describes the topic Foo in the current version).

:Pages in mainspace should only redirect to an older versioned page if that content no longer exists in the current version of the game (e.g. [[Cave river]], [[Chunk]]). In these cases the cv: alias cannot be used.

:Pages inside a versioned namespace should not use the cv: alias. Instead, they should redirect to the best page within that versioned namespace (e.g. [[DF2012:Dodging]], [[v0.31:Drink]]).

:Due to limitations of the wiki software, double redirects should be avoided if possible. When fixing double redirects in mainspace, please make sure to use the cv: alias as appropriate.

If no one objects, I will make this change in a few days.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:21, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

:Okay with me. It may be worth mentioning that double redirects only really need to be changed when they don't work (since changing a lot of redirects that work isn't necessary), but I think it's clearer and more relevant than the current policy. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:26, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Done.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:55, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

I was finally able to get my extension to work after being motivated by one too many malfunctioning redirects. It now causes nonexistent pages in the main namespace to behave exactly like redirects to their DF2012 counterparts (when linked to, accessed directly, and transcluded). Double redirects also work (up to 100, in fact, although that was a temporary safety measure that I'll probably change). This means we'll be able to safely get rid of all mainspace redirects (redirects that redirect to something other than "cv" will still function if not deleted). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:20, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
:What about articles which don't exist in the current version but do exist in older versions? Will those still need mainspace redirects, or will your extension be able to automatically redirect them to v0.31/40d/23a? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 01:29, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
::It ignores all mainspace pages that actually have content, including redirects, so pages like [[masons guild]] won't be affected (unless deleted). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:47, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Done and deployed. [[Cat]] is still treated as a redirect, even though I just deleted it (try clicking on the "redirected from" link). Pages that exist are ignored, so [[Masons guild]] and [[History of Dwarf Fortress]] still function normally (as a redirect to a 23a page and a non-redirect, respectively). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm sending around a bot right now to delete all redirects of the format "foo -> cv:foo" (a surprising number don't fit this format, so I'm leaving them alone for now). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:43, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

:I'm confused. Do we use double redirects or not? Is there a single place we define our linking policy (including redirects), and is it updated?
:I had trouble linking to [[Consolidated_development]] in [[v0.34:Dragon]]. It kept pointing to v0.34:Consolidated_development, which does not exist. I ended up linking to Main:Consolidated_development to make it work. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] ([[User talk:Nahno|talk]]) 10:18, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

::That's a separate problem altogether - links in the versioned namespaces (v0.34, v0.31, 40d, 23a) automatically link to pages within their namespace. I may be able to set up a fallback to mainspace once I'm able to deploy again, but for now the "main:" alias is the intended solution. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 11:36, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

== Google often directs people to the 0.31 page ==

I've noticed a couple of times that finding a wiki page from an external search will often drop me onto a page from an older version. Is it possible to mitigate this somehow for new players? I could imagine something like redirecting old:Bar -> cv:Bar unless the user has come from old:Foo; no idea if that would actually work though. [[User:PeridexisErrant|PeridexisErrant]] ([[User talk:PeridexisErrant|talk]]) 11:48, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

:As a temporary solution, I could write a script that displays a banner of some kind if the user came from an external site. I'll ask Briess if he can do anything on the server level to increase the weighting of the current version's pages. (Obviously there are situations where people are looking for old pages, like [[23a:dungeon master]], so we don't want to disable indexing entirely on old pages.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:03, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

== DF2014? ==

As Toady [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ draws closer to a new release], it might be worthwhile to discuss the addition of a new version to the wiki. The upcoming release covers two years of changes and introduces a number of new plants, foods, drinks, multi-tile trees, climbing, jumping, etc., so it is likely to have significant changes from the current DF2012. To avoid having people start new pages (and lose all the effort spent refining the prior version's page), I think it would be best to have a bot automatically copy over the DF2012 pages as a starting point for DF2014. I would suggest that these copied pages include a noticebox template mentioning that the content may be outdated, so that we can easily track which pages have been reviewed. I think either the {{tl|version check}} or {{tl|old}} template would work. --[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:43, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

:This is what [[User:QuietBot]] did after the 0.34 release, so it's certainly possible to use the same script to migrate to DF2014. I would like a way of tagging migrated pages, since inaccuracies in some pages went unnoticed for months after they were migrated. Since {{tl|old}} is already in use, {{tl|version check}} may be a better solution (it can be reworded slightly, or we can make a separate template for DF2014 migration). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:23, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
:Made [[Template:DF2014 migrated]] as an example. Any thoughts? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:32, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

== Redirects inconsistency ==

Following a redirect is supposed to be exactly the same as going straight to the page it redirects to, but this actually isn't the case:
* Go to [[Seeds]] and you get [[v0.34:Seed]] (outdated)
* Go to http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Seeds&redirect=no and click on the link and you get to [[DF2014:Seed]] (current)
So if you search for "seed", the top result is the DF2014 version. But search for "seeds" and you get the redirect, which sends you to the outdated page instead. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 23:22, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

While I'm talking about redirects, it seems redirects to sections don't work: see [[DF2014:How do I manage my seeds and crops]]. I know MediaWiki is capable of this trick because Wikipedia does it. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 23:32, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

:I have absolutely no idea why [[seeds]] redirects to a v0.34 page - it could be a Mediawiki bug. The section links issue is due to a known issue in the redirect extension we use, which has yet to be fixed. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:01, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
:It looks like deleting both [[Seeds]] and [[DF2014:Seeds]] fixed things (by allowing AutoRedirect to handle the redirects instead). Feel free to tag any others with {{tl|bad redirect}}. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:03, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
::It gets stranger. [[Vial]] redirects explicitly to [[cv:Flask]] which displays (when you look at it with &redirect=no) as [[DF2014:Flask]], but still goes to the v0.34 version. It seems redirects interpret the cv: pseudo-namespace (or whatever it's called) in an outdated way. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 18:08, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
::I've added a note to this page about this issue. If it gets resolved, the note should be removed. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 21:04, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

==Reorganizing versions==

The internet deals with moved content... poorly. Google is still linking to v0.34 pages more than a year after the switch to "DF2014", and even the wiki software still has cached links pointing to the old version pages.

I propose reorganizing versions on the wiki to avoid moving content whenever possible. Instead of having a temporary "current version" namespace that changes occasionally, all the current information gets promoted to the Main namespace. When the next version split occurs, the Main articles as of a certain revision number can be copied to the newly-created permanent "old version" namespace, while all the current information remains in Main. This not only fixes the link rot issue, but it has a few other benefits as well: fewer administrative tasks, no lockdown (a historical version of the Main pages can be copied at any point, even if the Main articles are already modified for the new version), almost all the article history is maintained in the Main article (instead of being spread unevenly across multiple versions), no "temporary" namespaces are needed, fewer problematic long redirect chains, and hopefully less user confusion (since Main gets priority in search results, etc.).

As an example, today we would not have a DF2014 namespace (which is good because "temporary" namespaces historically disappear anyway). If you ran a search for [[seed]] you'd end up at Main:seed, which would have all the current information on seeds. The version box at the top of the page would still link to the older versions of the seed article. When a new version is released, an admin would choose a revision number and copy the Main:seed article as it exists at that revision number to v0.40:seed. That's it. One historical copy that needs little to no new editing, and zero redirections/moves.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:02, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

:Makes sense to me. It would involve a lot of work, though (e.g. fixing templates and categories to account for the current version being in mainspace), although that should be doable thanks to {{tl|category}}, {{tl|version switch}}, etc.. A bot could be set up to copy revisions from before a release date as well, which would be more difficult (and maybe slower) than a direct copy, but not severely. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:24, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

:Actually, there are a few issues with that, namely that there wouldn't be an easy way to distinguish between versioned and non-versioned mainspace pages. There are ways to resolve Google search priority (we can exclude pages from older versions from search engine results if there are newer versions of those pages available, for example). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:47, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::There aren't very many non-versioned mainspace pages, and determining if a page is versioned is as simple as looking for the version template and/or categories added by the version template (e.g. copy [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:Current this category] instead of Main:*). The problem with "suggesting" newer pages to Google is that they obviously aren't crawling our wiki regularly (if they were, the fact that the mainspace redirects point to new pages would automatically be picked up). Even if your Google hints worked they wouldn't do anything for all the other broken links out on the 'net.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:35, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::: Google actually crawls the wiki constantly - we probably get crawl hits from google for a continuous block of 2-3 hours per day, each and every day. Why they are slow to update is beyond me though. I can't remember why we didn't do this initially, but there was a technical limitation involved if I remember correctly. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] ([[User talk:Briess|talk]]) 22:05, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::: There are <meta> tags that can be used to hide pages from search results (for search engines that recognize them, that is). Searching for {{tl|av}} or [[:Category:Current]] might work, although we'd have to make sure all of the DF2014 pages include that (some pages don't, particularly some disambiguation pages, although all of them should). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:53, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

:Is there a particular reason main and current are separate to begin with?—[[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 00:17, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

::It's mostly intended to distinguish between versioned and non-versioned pages and make version-related templates simpler to work with, since every versioned page has a namespace. I wasn't active here in 2010 when this system was created, so Briess and Emi would know more.
::Another issue I just thought of with Loci's suggestion is categories - currently, categories like [[:Category:Animals]] are used to organize the versioned sub-categories. Sure, we can change {{tl|Category}} to categorize mainspace pages in [[:Category:v0.40:Animals]] or [[:Category:DF2014:Animals]], but that would be less straightforward because there wouldn't be a namespace with that name (until pages are migrated when a newer major version is released). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:05, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

:Moving current pages to the main namespace sounds like a great idea. -[[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] ([[User talk:Jecowa|talk]]) 20:47, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Another thought: dealing with migrating redirects could be difficult with this proposal - specifically, determining which redirects should be migrated to a versioned namespace. Redirects can't contain {{tl|av}}, at least not before ``#REDIRECT``. I ''think'' it would be possible to copy pages in two stages, though - all non-redirects first, then all redirects whose targets were also copied. Thoughts? Anything I'm missing? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:41, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Some subpages (particularly /raw and /Edit notice) also deliberately lack {{tl|av}}, although those shouldn't be too hard to handle. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:35, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

:Redirect pages (and all other edge cases I've looked at) can be included in categories (like [[:Category:Current]]) to determine whether or not they should be copied into an archival version. But if the redirects are "properly qualified" then they can all be copied over blindly. Mainspace redirects pointing to versioned information should use a blank namespace (which will be automatically constrained to the archival namespace); mainspace redirects pointing to unversioned information should use an explicit "Main" (which will automatically link back to the unversioned page). Then, when [[[[Toady]]]] gets copied to [[[[v0.4x:Toady]]]] it will point back to [[[[Main:Toady One]]]]. Meanwhile, [[[[Beer]]]], copied to [[[[v0.4x:Beer]]]], will properly point to [[[[v0.4x:Alcohol]]]].--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:00, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

::I think qualifying redirects is the best solution here - categorizing redirects manually is another possible source of errors, since categories (or a lack thereof) would only be visible on the redirect page itself, and [[:Category:Current]] is a hidden category. Copying over mainspace redirects into versioned namespaces would also resolve some issues that have come up due to those not reliably existing currently. I should be able to set up a bot script to add "main:" to current mainspace redirects (and it shouldn't break anything, since those redirects go to other mainspace pages anyway). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:57, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

(Note: I wrote all of this without noticing the previous discussion above.) I was wondering, when the wiki creates a new namespace for a major release again, if it is possible to ''not'' create a namespace for the next current version (e.g. "DF202x") and instead have the mainspace articles (which are currently redirects) become the new cv and move the content there. Therefore, [[cv:Cat]] would just be "[[Cat]]" (or [[Main:Cat]]).

Certain namespace-related templates like [[Template:Ns/0]] would need to be changed, though nothing significant as far as I know. For most cases, any "DF2014" would be replaced with "Main" or even blank. There's also multiple extensions handling the current namespace system and they may need to be modified too, though I'm not sure if or how much. I'm guessing based on the discussions above that it will change stuff up.

My reason is the current namespace is increasingly becoming more anachronistic. "DF2014" could be misinterpreted as "this page is about the 2014 version of the game" or "this page was last updated in 2014", which I've seen a few people in forums mention. Granted that [[Template:Av]] is on the top of very article, I still think the namespace is inconsistent with the recentness of the article. But how is this related to what I'm asking for? Let's say we continue the current system: if we happen to do a new namespace change this year and create DF2020, the next major release (after graphics/UI) will be mythgen, which is estimated to take several years to develop (the Big Wait), and so the anachronism will start over again. The proposed way will prevent this from occurring for the next major release and every release thereafter.

I think the confusion with having a namespace that becomes old-fashioned overtime supersedes the confusion with not marking current versioned articles with a namespace. Most users just search "Cat" on the search bar and naturally expect to get information about the latest release of DF. So if users go a page that's just titled "Cat", they won't expect outdated info about cats from a previous release. That's how the current system works anyways. We'll be skipping the two-step process that we have now. It'll make several wiki tasks much simpler as well. Editors can create new articles for current versions without remembering to add a namespace. It'll fix any existing issues with (double) redirects; instead of [[Main:Kitten]] redirecting to [[cv:Kitten]], which goes to [[DF2014:Kitten]], which then redirects to [[DF2014:Cat]], [[Main:Kitten]] would just redirect to [[Main:Cat]]. And the cv: alias will no longer be necessary since "cv:" = "Main:" and will be forever.

There's no need to differentiate the current version and previous versions with a namespace for the current version is what I'm saying. Articles of previous versions will retain their respective namespaces. Users will still type "40d:Cat" to go to the 40d version of the article, but if they want the current version, they'll just type "Cat" (like now). The mainspace containing the "live" version of an article is natural and would create no uncertainty when browsing the wiki. And it would simplify the wiki somewhat and future-proof this anachronism problem. As a bonus, this change will also prevent web search engines from showing previous version pages when typing "DF cat" or something. (This isn't happening right now as DF2014 has been the current namespace for ~6 years, but it'll happen again when everything moves to a new namespace.)

This is the gist of it, and I may have ignored most of the problems with this proposal. I have personally wished for the whole version namespacing be made less complicated and have been seeking for a solution, and I feel like this is the best way to go about in the future. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:27, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

:<s>Whoops, looks like Loci already proposed this exact thing long ago. I definitely missed that discussion and should have checked first. My apologies. I'll move my text to that section and remove this one. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:36, 14 August 2020 (UTC)</s> Done. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:40, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

:The main issue I have with that is that putting pages about the current version in a namespace also differentiates between those pages and pages not about ''any'' version (for example, [[Toady One]] does not need a 40d or v0.34 page). Yes, we can use {{tl|av}} to mark versioned pages, but people often forget to add that to new pages. The current system also allows determining whether a page is versioned or not from its title, which makes migrations a lot faster. Relying on {{tl|av}} would require either reading the content of every page (which would slow scripts down significantly) or cross-checking with the list of all pages including the template (feasible, but a bit more complicated, and still susceptible to missing templates). I suppose that manually fixing and migrating pages missing {{tl|av}} later wouldn't be too much work, though.
:I am definitely in favor of changing "DF2014" (or a new namespace) to "Current", though. I was in favor of "DF2014" in 2014, but I don't think it makes sense anymore, and "Current" seemed to be a popular alternative in both the DF2012 and DF2014 discussions on the matter. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:02, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

== Weird redirect behaviour ==

[[Pump stack]] redirects to [[cv:Screw pump#Pump stack]]. If you look at the redirect itself it says it redirects to DF2014 namespace, which is correct. But if you actually follow the redirect, it goes to v0.34 namespace. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 16:10, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
:Yeah, that's part of the issue described in the above section (the wiki caching part, not on Google's end.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:00, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

== v50 organization ==

Some wiki admins have had a talk on Discord and decided that the most sustainable path forward is to put content for all future versions of DF in the main namespace. We will be working on a bot to do this in the next few days. Feel free to chime in with suggestions here. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:56, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

:Is it maybe possible to do backwards-namespacing? Like we have a "Main" namespace, which people are free to update, and whenever there's a new version of DF the "Main" namespace is copied into a namespace for the then old version, much like how you'd branch a stable branch from a development branch when working with a git-project? [[User:Therahedwig|Therahedwig]] ([[User talk:Therahedwig|talk]]) 23:13, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

::Yeah, we could do that if we decide to. We were talking about doing that for v50, actually, and might still do something similar to preserve edit history if it doesn't end up being too hard to automate. Our hope is that we will not introduce new namespaces for v50 -> v5x, unless there is a serious breaking change (and hopefully there isn't one). But if we change our mind, one advantage of the type of migration you mentioned is that it can be done retroactively - we can copy historical revisions that were current at the time of the release, and would only lose some typo fixes made after the release that apply to earlier versions as well. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:11, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

ETA is < 24 hours. Doing some final checks on a migration script. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 07:08, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

: We should really have a task list as there are many things that change and need updating. Including but not limited to:
:* Most templates that used the previous namespace convention broke, including nav templates.
:* Many game files changed locations and their pages need to be updated.
:* Raws need to be updated.
:* Various features added, changed, removed.
:* UI has been changed -- though I am more inclined to wait for classic release to avoid extra work --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 06:56, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

"''Raws need to be updated.''" Including applying text wraparound where necessary, I suppose - more than a few of them have proven to be that special kind of...''difficult'' to navigate otherwise, shall we say? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:There is already a task list in the [[#v50 migration|section below]] that includes templates and raws, with an explanation. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

== v50 migration ==

The initial migration script is done. New content is in the '''main''' namespace, e.g. [[Cat]]. Old content is still at [[DF2014:Cat]]. History was migrated to the ''new'' (main namespace) articles.

I know several things are broken still. Please reply if you find any others:
<div style="border-left: 2px solid red">
* <s>Versioned templates haven't been migrated yet (e.g. {{tl|vermin}} on [[Ant]])</s>
** Fixed. Most were migrated by a bot.
* Raws are missing on all pages that use them.
** This also affects sidebars, such as on [[Cat]] and [[Microcline]].
** Update: The DFRawFunctions extension has been upgraded to include v50 raws, using the "v50:" prefix for filenames instead of "DF2014:". I haven't finished a migration script to create the /raw pages themselves, but they can typically be created manually by copying the DF2014 /raw pages and changing "DF2014" to "v50" everywhere. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:20, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
* Some pages where the DF2014 page was a redirect to a main namespace page that contained content were migrated incorrectly.
** In this case, the main namespace page is usually a redirect to itself. This can be fixed by undoing LethosorBot's edit to the main namespace page, then copying the content to the DF2014 page.
** Update: most seem to have been fixed manually - thanks! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
* <s>Some main-namespace talk pages redirect to DF2014 talk pages. Some of these redirects work, and some (usually older ones) do not.</s>
** Fixed with a bot. Some redirects from talk pages to other deleted talk pages are now broken, e.g. [[Talk:Above_ground]] (exists) -> [[Talk:Tile attributes]] (redlink). I am leaving them like that because they redirect to where the talk page should be created, but I'm also fine with people deleting them if they really want to. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
* {{tl|quality}} for new articles is disabled (see below)
* Some links from DF2014 to Main weren't working: e.g. the version selector [[DF2014:Mason's workshop]] was linking to [[DF2014:Main:Mason's workshop]] instead of [[Main:Mason's workshop]]. I'm not sure exactly why, but I fixed it with a change to the NamespaceLinks extension. Let me know if you spot similar broken links. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:19, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
</div>

—[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:54, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:The quality levels of the 50.03 pages seem to be missing. I'm not sure if that's covered under that first point. [[User:Trainzack|Trainzack]] ([[User talk:Trainzack|talk]]) 06:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::If the the [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Quality]] feature can be made to work with namespace scheme change, I suggest to automatically assign the lowest quality rating to all pages, alternately add the {{tl|old}} to all pages. Otherwise there will be a lot of pages that will fall through the cracks. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:12, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::I disabled {{tl|quality}} in the main namespace because it would require some rework to make the rating script and the template work properly there. Feel free to take a stab at the template. I will see what can be done on the extension side. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

It appears some pages are redirecting recursively and never resolving correctly, like the [[https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Character_table&redirect=no|character table]] and [[tileset repository]] 07:35, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
: Indeed, these can be caught here: [[Special:DoubleRedirects]] --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:51, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

It might be useful to change the notice title to "release information '''for editors'''" --[[Special:Contributions/142.59.195.176|142.59.195.176]] 10:26, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Can do. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::New here, hello. Should we set a date where we remove/only show the banner for logged in users. There are (some) pages that have 4 different notices about the upgrade. [[Engraving]] is one such page, the top banner states "information for editors", we then have the "this page was migrated" banner, a version selection which warns the article might be inaccurate, and a smaller banner saying the page might need to be updated. Quite a lot of screen space, I think we can start to slowly reduce the amount of warnings this coming month? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 10:07, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Main talkpages seem to redirect to DF2014 talk. Not sure if it is intentional but I like it, though we should pay attention when creating new discussion relating to v50 ending up there.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 14:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:That's unintentional. I specifically wrote the migration script to not move talk pages, but that has the side-effect of leaving any previously-created "Talk -> DF2014 talk" redirects intact. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Yo Lethosor, are we adding graphic sprites for the pages in some way? Or are we waiting for you to add some sort of new template or something? I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that the current templates don't allow that. Not sure if I'm allowed to change/create any templates either, as I don't want to break things for hundreds of pages. Edit: And IF the icons are allowed, should they be left alone, or 2×-3× sized like how the Minecraft wiki does it? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 14:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Depends on which templates you mean. There are copyright concerns with uploading a premium sprite sheet, for instance. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::I'm not talking about uploading an entire sprite sheet. I'm just talking about individual icons for each respective page. One image for cows, one for horses, one for werebeasts, etc. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 16:50, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::If we do that for every creature in the sprite sheet, that's not much different (in terms of copyright) from uploading the entire sprite sheet. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:09, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::Is there someone we can talk to about that? We finally get this new game with graphics, and then we can't use the very graphics of the game? No matter what the rules are, I'd say that would be the stupidest thing ever. I know I'm infamous here when it comes to copyright and images and stuff, but about 80% of game wikis out there are completely unofficial, and use game file images like no one's business. I can't imagine anyone's door being knocked on if we used the game's sprites, but I won't add any here until we have a go-ahead. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 17:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::...I've made noise in Mayday's direction on this matter, at least (prob an incorrect maneuver, ''but'').[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 17:55, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::: I hope some sort of arrangement can be made so we can use the new sprites with permission/limits, just as we are using the raw files. Otherwise we are all (devs and editors alike) shooting ourselves in the foot here.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 21:07, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::::I just thought of something. We're supposedly not allowed to upload entire sprite sheets, right? What if - for the time being - we just use a few of them for the purpose of testing out new infoboxes? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:46, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::I don't know. If someone could ask Kitfox and post the response here, that would be great. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::::::I've reached out to Alexandra, but she hasn't answered yet. Until then I found these old approvals from the previous community manager, Feeona: ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.msg8243633#msg8243633 link1], [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176640.msg8243642#msg8243642 link2]). Waiting for a newer response until we begin mass uploads is probably the politer option, but like Zippy said, it is also standard for wikis to use game sprites with less approval. I second their idea of trying it out with a few images to test the infoboxes. On the extreme off-chance (and I do think it is) Kitfox protests we can always remove these few. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 22:19, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::And here is a third, more official statement: ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.msg8249718#msg8249718 link3]). Perhaps that address of info@kitfoxgames.com is the better channel to ask for a confirmation, rather than Discord DMs, but I will be going to bed, so it is best if someone else does that. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 22:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::Thanks for tracking this down! Ok, sprites should be fine, but let's avoid uploading the entire premium tileset as a single image, for instance (as the forum thread says, "use common sense"). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:21, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::: Looks good, permission is always preferable over fairuse, I think it is a win win for all involved. I agree that we shouldn't upload entire sprite sheets (e.g. there is no reason to upload the windmill from every direction or whole construction phase for workshops) and that there are a lot of details that needs to be ironed out through testing. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 05:07, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::We have a green light on uploading all and any sprites. Their response to me can be seen [https://i.imgur.com/BhmHjzC.png here]. I'm sure someone else confirmed it before me. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:00, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Shifting temporarily to a new issue, is the documentation of [[Template:ArticleVersion]] outdated? It would seem so to me, since the current version no longer has its own namespace, with the templates needing updating being different ones. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 18:30, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:I think it is still accurate enough. We left open the possibility of making another namespace in the future, albeit with a different migration strategy - see [[#v50 organization|above]]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Some Changes to infoboxes might be needed. Too bad [[User:Doorkeeper]] isn't around. He did a great work with navbox project--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:52, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

I just realized that raw files aren't stored as regular wiki pages but loaded via the DFRawFunctions extension (hence the need to update). Good news it's going to be handled in bulk, consistently and relatively easy to updated. Even better it's Lethosor problem ;) Also I just realized that all the "raw files" (txt files in the new vanilla folder) are released into the public domain. Both are probably not news to the vets but I'll leave it here for those who less up to date like myself. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:35, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

: I noticed that some templates aren't working properly in the new namespace, e.g. [[Basalt]] entry had its raw updated manually but the infobox fail to show any details. Cursory look suggest {{t|layerlookup/0}} need a minor tweak. This should do the work
:: Replace: <nowiki>{{layerlookup/aux|{{{{FULLPAGENAME}}/raw}}|uses={{{uses|}}}|wiki={{{wiki|}}}}}</nowiki>
:: With___: <nowiki>{{layerlookup/aux|{{</nowiki>:<nowiki>{{FULLPAGENAME}}/raw}}|uses={{{uses|}}}|wiki={{{wiki|}}}}}</nowiki>
: Not sure what the plan and ETA with raws update so I didn't touch this high usage template for now. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 08:11, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

::Please do feel free to make this update. I am still working on a script to create the <code>/raw</code> pages themselves. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

== v50 specific issues ==
=== Graphics===
Follow up on the use of game sprites and the need to trying it out with a few images to test the infoboxes. First sprite [[:File:Beds v50.png]] was uploaded and used on [[Bed]] entry. Any thoughts? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:06, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:Seems like it should be rearranged to be horizontal. Also, has there been a serious discussion about copyright? Full screenshots are 100% fine, but you start going into a grey area when you upload pieces of a spritesheet. I'm of the opinion that it's all fine as long as it's inconvenient to reconstruct the full sheet from the individual images. Maybe a further restriction could be you shouldn't upload any of the art unless it's used in an infobox (maybe an exception for pieces of the UI). And one more restriction could be you shouldn't show everything, like in your bed example, maybe just the wooden bed is good enough, leave out the stone and metal, especially since those can only be made from strange moods. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:43, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::Actually, your bed image is kinda bad for showing off what a bed looks like because it doesn't show the pillow/blankets. That might point to cropped screenshots being the best path, although less convenient for the uploader, as you don't get details left out. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:46, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::I created a new license template [[Template:Copyright game]], based it on the way the RimWorld wiki does things. Call it a prototype, but it's probably how your bed image should be labelled. Indeed, I added it to it already. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]])

::: I agree that the horizontal arrangement would suit better here and that we should strive to represent how things look in-game. Otherwise, I am not too concerned about people being able to reconstruct anything (lets just say that ''anyone'' interested in that can get the real thing from the game files), also it seem we have permission to use the sprits on top of fairuse. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 19:55, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

::: Modifying the existing template to allow the inclusion of the new sprites is easy (Something like [https://ibb.co/zFXCrjd this]?) The big question is the matter of consistency is there any exceptions that will break the format (size wise with variant bloat for example), the sprite naming format, etc --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:44, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::: If we are going to show a variant for each material type, then maybe these should be added as separate images so we can add a tooltip for each image. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:49, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

:I've got another prototype going here and here: [[User:Brightgalrs/vector.css]] and [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox]]. (You'll need to add the css stuff to your own /vector.css). Basically it's a way to recolor images using css classes. No idea if there's a better way. Also, the real implementation would require a change to [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:Should mention, there ''is'' a different way, just upload each image 16 times, one for each coloring. But maybe that's not very elegant. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:45, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

: It should be noted that soon the classic edition will be released, hence one should plan to have both the Premium and classic alongside in that little space --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 03:14, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::I'm looking into a tab extension to potentially support this in infoboxes. Perhaps [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Tabs Extension:Tabs]? I tried [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TabberNeue Extension:TabberNeue], but it displays a placeholder if JavaScript is disabled, which isn't great. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: The Neue Tabber seem to works pretty much like the old one (which fandom [https://coding-help.fandom.com/wiki/Tabber#Adding_images_into_tabbers still use]) defaulting to showing the first tab only. Quick look suggest that neue work the same, plus the notice that 'Tabber requires Javascript to function' warning? if so, and if it is a bother, then you should be able to edit out the tabberneue-noscript string in code. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 06:29, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: I much prefer your tabber solution, but if that fails we can also use the gallery slideshow mode. If so, beware it has no way to control image size so the images have to be maliciously uploaded using the exact same size. example:
<gallery mode="slideshow">
File:SteelSample.png
File:TinSample.png
File:ZincSample.png
File:GoldSample.png
</gallery> --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:19, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

==== adding premium set to Infobox ====
I am unclear where are we going with this? 
1) Will (A) tabs be implemented, (B) we be using mediawiki toggle [[Template_talk:V50_workshop|example]] for premium and classic/blocked, (c) put images side by side, or (d) something else? 
2) Also [[silver]] and [[Pig iron]] use very different image style for example. 
3) Anything else you want ? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 12:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

: Personally, I would love tabs to be implemented, but I think that side by side might be best for most. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 12:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
: Here is rough layout we can use. It should fit most buildings given the default sprite size. There is also a different floor plan for both (inspired by reddit)

{|
|- valign=top
|
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse; "
|+ 5x5
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc; "
|<div class="mw-customtoggle-infoboxtab mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="border-top-right-radius: 10px; border-top-left-radius:10px;">toggle</div>
|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|- valign=top
|colspan=2|<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">
[[File:Siege workshop.png|center|160px]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab"">
{|
|rowspan=2 style="width:50%; font-size: 125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Siege workshop}}</center>
|style="line-height: 1em; font-size: 125%;"|
{| style="border-spacing:4px;"
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|}
|-
| style="text-align: center;" | Layout
|}
</div>
|}
|
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse; "
|+ 3x3
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc; "
|colspan=2 style="text-align: right;"|<div class="mw-customtoggle-infoboxtab mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="float:left; border-top-right-radius: 10px; border-top-left-radius:10px;">toggle</div>{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|- valign=top
|rowspan=2 style="width:50%;"|
<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">[[File:Carpenter's workshop.png]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab""><center>
{| style="font-size: 175%; border-spacing: 0; background-color: black; border: 2px solid black"
|- 
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|"|7:0:0}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|{{=}}|6:0:0}}
|-
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
|-
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|]|0:0:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
|}</center></div>
|
{| style="border-spacing:5px;"
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|}
|-
| style="text-align: center;" | Layout
|}
</div>
|
{| style="width:200px; height:100px; padding:10px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse;"
|+ 1x1
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc;"
| colspan=3 style="text-align:center;"|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|-
| style="border-right: 1px dotted #545557;"|[[File:Screw_press.png|32px|center|link=]]
| style="font-size:125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Screw press}}</center>
| style="border-left: 1px dotted #545557;"|<center>{{Template:Floor Plan Screw press}}</center>
|}
|
{| style="width:200px; height:100px; padding:10px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse;"
|+ 1x3
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc;"
| colspan=3 style="text-align:center;"|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|-
| style="border-right: 1px dotted #545557;"|[[File:water_wheel.png|32px|center|link=]]
| style="font-size:125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Water wheel}}</center>
| style="border-left: 1px dotted #545557;line-height:normal;"|<center>{{Template:Floor Plan Water wheel}}</center>
|}
|}
:Any thoughts on the direction and or any and all of its elements? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:16, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

::I kind of like side-by-side, if it fits. If anyone wants to implement a toggle button or tabs, I would ask that that be implemented in a template for now, so that e.g. we could change a toggle button to tabs in a single place if we decide to install an extension to support that. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:14, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

::: I noticed a comment saying that [[impassable tile]] are no longer used in v50, is that true for all constructions? If so, floor plans are no longer needed, making things much easier as we can fit everything in except the 5v5 constructions like trade depot (and even these can be placed one above the other if so desired). If not, any thought on the alternative floor plan design? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:46, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

:::: None of the constructions have blocking tiles any more from my experience playing. I haven't tested siege weaponry with that stuff, but none of the workshops have it, nor does any furniture. (walls and fortifications will of course obstruct movement [[User:AndrielChaoti|AndrielChaoti]] ([[User talk:AndrielChaoti|talk]]) 18:47, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
::::: Ok, I have removed them from v50. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 23:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I have added a basic side by side variant to [[Template:V50 workshop]] and [[Template:Building]] for testing, let us know if there any issues. Few notes:
* The default image naming scheme of <code>workshop-name.png</code> will likely conflict with existing images here or on commons, maybe another naming scheme should be used like <code>v50 workshop-name.png</code> as it is with ascii pictures.
* There is inconsistency in image size. If you want to use large zoomed images then toggle is best, otherwise they need to be all in native size (96px for 3x3).
* In the current version the code roughly centers the images and if there is a big image like with [[Siege workshop]] it drops to a new line --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 23:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Bizarre palette-swapping idea/prototype ====
No idea if this is a good idea, since it takes a bit of time to set up, and there might be some performance issues... and maybe display issues?

But take a look at this:
{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock|palette-name=amber}}

It's way to swap palettes on an image, although the image itself is a table, with each cell representing a pixel. The template itself looks like this:
<code><nowiki>{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock|palette-name=saffron}}</nowiki></code>
Input the pattern and desired palette name.

I've got a larger showcase here: [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwapShowcase]]. Only did a rock pattern so far, but all palettes are implemented.
The major use for this would be on each stone, metal, wood, etc. type's page. The palette could be read directly from the raws. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 03:22, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

:From a technical perspective, my primary concern is indeed performance. Both on the server side and client side, a large number of tables that large (in terms of markup and cell count, that is) tend to be resource-intensive to generate and render. I saw your image-filtering experiments on [[User:Brightgalrs/vector.css]], and while that strikes me as a newer and less-backwards-compatible approach, it would probably be more resource-friendly.
:Is this color adjustment something the game is doing natively? i.e. does this accurately match what the game displays? I bet we could slap together an image-filtering extension (or find an existing one?) that can do this if needed. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:49, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah that's what I suspected. The images the template creates are spot on, checked it against a screenshot I took of some mica rocks in-game. The css stuff is unfortunately totally incorrect, was cool to learn about it though, so not a complete waste of my time :p. The premium, in-game graphics are true sprites, basically patterns of indexed colors. Each of the in-game colors (which are significantly expanded over the 16 ascii colors, there's 116/117) there is a palette defined in "\Dwarf Fortress\data\vanilla\vanilla_descriptors_graphics\graphics\images\palettes.png". Each indexed color of the sprite is swapped for the corresponding color in the palette. Because of that, the css stuff doesn't work since it's doing the hue/saturation/brightness changes to the entire sprite.
::I've looked into an existing mediawiki extension, couldn't find anything. One thing I did't really look at is some type of lua script/module that would basically emulate what the game is doing. So some function that takes in the base image as well as the desired palette, and based on that finds and replaces each color. No idea what mediawiki's capabilities are on that front. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 05:31, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
:::We do have Scribunto installed now, so it's totally possible to do something in Lua too - forgot about that. I can add you to the group that grants access to edit the Module namespace if you want to give that a shot. If we use an extension, we'd probably need a custom one, similar to DFDiagram (or perhaps DFDiagram could be extended - it's in dire need of a rewrite anyway). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:43, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::::I asked around on the mediawiki irc, I think scribunto/lua is a deadend, at least for taking an uploaded image and doing stuff to it with a lua script. However I did come up with this even more bizarre solution, using block elements. [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwapShowcase2]], maybe less resource intensive? Definitely displays a lot worse though, probably unusable.
::::{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock2|palette-name=saffron}}
::::I dunno, maybe none of this is worth it and we should just write some external program to put all the images together offline, and then just mass upload. It wouldn't be ''that'' many... [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 06:37, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

====Is there an easy way to just paste images from the clipboard?====

I use KDE spectacle to take screenshots straight to the clipboard (after cropping) -- is there an easy way to just paste (and auto-upload) an image into an article? It would make it a lot easier to contribute images. [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 23:35, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Unfortunately there is not. I would be open to a MediaWiki extension to support this if someone finds one. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:32, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:: Looks like this could do it, but I haven't used it before: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SimpleBatchUpload

=== Hotkeys/Menu navigation ===
Most key bindings and menus have changed. Should the article reflect a) only the old version, b) only the GUI version or c) both? For example, [[Bridge|bridges]] used to be built via {{k|b}} -> {{k|g}}, but now it's in Place strucutures {{k|b}} -> Constructions {{k|n}} -> Bridge {{k|b}}. What should be written in the article? Currently, it's {{k|b}} -> {{k|g}}. I ''think'' it should be only b), but I am not sure if there will be differences regarding hotkeys or menus between the premium version and the free version and then, c) would be the most appropriate option. --[[User:Prometherus|Prometherus]] ([[User talk:Prometherus|talk]]) 10:16, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

: Not sure. I wish the classic release soon --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 16:45, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:: Are you Toady's herald? Looks like it was just released! [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:18, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:: And our questions are answered, the old hotkeys seem to have been thrown out. Part of me is disappointed (useless muscle memory) but also relieved (unified UI for both versions is good in general and for the wiki). [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:25, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: According to info, in a sort of 'demo version' at that. I'll wait a little while longer, for myself.[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 18:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::::It's unlikely that keybindings in it will change significantly. My vote is that we should include information for both premium and classic, everywhere. Hopefully the keybindings are not different between versions. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:26, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Shouldn't it be based on the 50 or what verion the article is written for? [[User:Dominick|Dominick]] [[User_talk:dominick|(TALK)]] 18:42, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:::: The keybindings seem to be consistent between versions, (haven't checked exhausitvely, but since the menu layout is the same I think it is a good assumption). Should also keep in mind/consider that not all actions have keybindings. An option would be write 'Click on the <Example Text> icon or press {{k|E}}' [[User:Koos|Koos]] ([[User talk:Koos|talk]]) 23:14, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

=== Removed features & concepts ===

Since they're removed concepts, I've set [[Room]] to be a redirect for [[DF2014:Room]] and created [[Template:Activity zones]] for the nav bar bedrooms, etc, and made the necessary changes to [[Bedroom]] for it. Is this the correct approach, before I go on much further? (also a note, if it is, then [[Template:v50_rooms]] probably needs to be deleted) I also imagine that considering the number of changes in the interface, that things like [[Adventure mode]] and related pages might best be truncated to "not in 50.03" and when it does make it across, being more deliberately brought over in pieces? [[User:HawkOwl|HawkOwl]] ([[User talk:HawkOwl|talk]]) 06:23, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:Usually it is marked with [[Template:Removed_feature]]. For example: [[Dipscript]] or [[Party]]. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:45, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:: Ah, that's fair. Should that be mentioned in [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Versions#Redirects]]? [[User:HawkOwl|HawkOwl]] ([[User talk:HawkOwl|talk]]) 10:03, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:::I think the redirect policy mostly had in mind things that were removed a ''long'' time ago, like [[Tax collector]] and [[Economy]] (and the latter actually has a stub page as well). I guess we could clarify. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:34, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: The "current" redirects also cause the version box to incorrectly show that the current version has a page - e.g. [[23a:Cave_river]] shows a v50.04 version, but it's just a redirect back to that version. Similarly, what should happen to redirects like [[Clothes maker]], where a concept has evolved? It currently goes to [[23a:Clothes maker]] - that's correct if the user is trying to look up a very old concept, but if a new user is looking for "how to make clothes", they should be directed to [[Clothier]]. --[[User:Danny252|Danny252]] ([[User talk:Danny252|talk]]) 12:16, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: One should be careful with cv redirects. Most that were recently adjusted were unused plural forms (that should probably be deleted) but few like [[Crown]] needed that for backward compatibility. Removing the [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&type=revision&diff=279966&oldid=219482 cv part] means the the link on [[v0.31:Tilesets]] is now broken. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 22:30, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::If [[v0.31:Tilesets]] is about v0.31, it should not be using "main:" in its links - ''all'' of those links are going to pages about v50, not v0.31, regardless of whether the target is a redirect or not. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:37, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::: You right, I removed it. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 17:55, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Crown cv redir issue is now fixed, I believe. As goes with such cases where one can simply revert the troublesome edit, unless I've mistepped, myself? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 23:52, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
:Both [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&diff=prev&oldid=280026] and [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&diff=prev&oldid=279966] should not have had any effect, because "cv" is an alias to the main namespace now, just like "main". Proof: [[Crown]], [[cv:Crown]], [[main:Crown]]. It's possible caching is coming into play here, although I purged the redirect cache after making that alias change earlier this month... —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:02, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

I think there have been some changes not captured, but as a newb, I'm afraid to edit the page(s). A good example is Strawberry. I'm playing the Steam version right now and Strawberry plants are "not relevant to brewing" in Labor > kitchen > veg / fruit / leaves. Unless I'm mistaken and need to process them? Another example is the trade caravan = it seems the 3 square pathing no longer happens; it's just yak(s). 12:31, 28 December 2022 (UTC) 12:29, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, none of the workshop buildings in v50 have blocking tiles any more. There's a comment to the like in data/vanilla/vanilla_buildings/objects/building_custom.txt that says this "[BLOCK:1:0:0:0] workbenches no longer block". Hesitant to update that template as I'm not sure if it's referenced for all of the old versions too. [[User:AndrielChaoti|AndrielChaoti]] ([[User talk:AndrielChaoti|talk]]) 05:54, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

=== creature infobox prototype (moved) ===

Check it out, I made a temporary template and added it to the [[cow]]s page. Now it shows the sprites (but not the zombified versions yet). I wanted to show everyone a prototype of what v50 creature infoboxes should look like. Or at least something similar to it. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:11, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
:Hi, I'm new to editing wikis but I have done a bit of work with sprite sheets and I've been going through the DF data files to find the different graphics hoping to help with the animal pages. I've thrown together a template with grass and a few nature sprites (plants, a tree, and a rock) for size reference but I'm unsure how large the 'display' tiles in the middle of the template should be to suit all animals. I can see in the sprite sheets that some land animals have an adult and child sprite, so two tiles. Others have a male, female, and child, but after seeing you include the zombie cows I'm unsure if I should make it twice the size to add them too. Alternatively, I could grab some tiles from the haunted biomes for the zombie animals and make a separate template for a side-by-side comparison. Either way, let me know if this helps. I'd like to help with other graphics too as we add the premium tilesets but the animals seemed the easiest to tackle with me being new to wiki editing. ~~[[User:UristTheSeventh|UristTheSeventh]]

=== When do we remove the migration note on specific pages? ===

At what point can we remove the "this page was auto migrated from v47" warning? There are a bunch of small pages that are more or less accurate, if I've reviewed them, can I go ahead and remove the warning? [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 23:33, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Yes, feel free to remove it if you think all content is accurate. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== Toggleable image ==

Any objections/comments to using this template for now for toggling between classic and premium images? I'd probably rename it to "Template:Premium-classic thumb image". I'm sure someone can come up with a better UI eventually, but should be easy to migrate at that point. I also think we should use the same customtoggle class for this and for the infobox. [[User:NiftyManiac|NiftyManiac]] ([[User talk:NiftyManiac|talk]]) 23:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

{{User:NiftyManiac/Sandbox/TemplateDualImage|
premium=File:Quickstart-finder.png|
classic=File:Quickstart-finder-partial.png
}}

{{User:NiftyManiac/Sandbox/TemplateDualImage|
premium=File:Quickstart-finder.png|
classic=File:Quickstart-finder-partial.png|
caption=My caption|
width=100px
}}

:This looks nice to me! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:30, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Versions

2023-01-02T10:12:42Z

Halavus: /* v50 organization */

{{archive|
# [[DF Talk:Versions/Archive 1|Page 1]]}}

== Version 0.31.19 starts a new DF generation? ==

My reading of Toady's comments on the release of 0.31.19 is that it came out basically because he felt it would take too long to get DF all the way to 0.32. With the ore changes, the sitefinder changes, the addition of grazing and several different industries, there's a lot of changes between 31.18 and 31.19. So I'm thinking it might be a good idea to call it the first release of DF2011 - and what we refer to as "DF2010" would then become 0.31.18.

Thoughts? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:06, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

==Revisiting Redirects==

I wasn't around when the redirect policy was created, and I'm having trouble understanding the rationale. The example claims that linking [[Main:Cheese]] to [[cv:Cheese maker]] is problematic...but mainspace only ever redirects to the current version. If the best target in the current version is cheese maker, why not link to it directly? (It's not, at least for Cheese, since [[DF2012:Cheese]] exists now.) The explanation seems to be claiming that 40d articles that link to Cheese will follow the Mainspace link--but that hasn't been the case for a long while now. Articles in 40d automatically link against other articles in 40d, so that version remains internally consistent no matter where mainspace links to in the current version. For a current example, what do we gain by linking [[Main:Mead]] to [[cv:Mead]] and linking [[DF2012:Mead]] to [[DF2012:Alcohol]]?

If this really is just an outdated procedure, I recommend we drop the mummery and allow mainspace to link to cv:(best target). Double redirects ''may'' work (sometimes, but [[Main:Mead]] demonstrates a common problem where automatic redirection fails), but if they are unnecessary I think they should be avoided, partly because of problems like [[Main:Mead]] and partly because of the effort required to protect double redirects from users who believe they are problematic.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:16, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

:I was just thinking that. I'm currently attempting to write a basic extension to eliminate the need for mainspace redirects entirely, although Mediawiki's class structure may make this more difficult than I had hoped (the only method I've found for resolving redirects takes the ''article text'' instead of a title, e.g. "#REDIRECT ..."). I do agree that the current situation with redirects isn't ideal, so I'm hoping this will work better (once I get it to work). --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:42, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Okay, that wasn't quite as clear as I meant it to be. In general, I think this is a tricky situation. Mediawiki wasn't designed to have five content namespaces, and certainly not chains of redirects between them. The problem that was pointed out in the [[DF:REDIR|policy]] is the fact that with:
Main:Foo -> cv:Bar
pages in the cv: namespace can't use [[<nowiki/>foo]], since the namespace links modification causes it to be treated as [[<nowiki/>cv:foo]] instead, which doesn't exist. The current suggested solution is this:
Main:Foo -> cv:Foo -> cv:Bar
This fixes the problem of [[<nowiki/>foo]] not working on cv pages, but creates issues with double redirects not always working. Another solution, which is more intuitive to new editors, is:
Main:Foo -> cv:Bar
cv:Foo -> cv:Bar
Both require creating two redirects. The first method has the advantage of ''ensuring'' that the cv redirect exists (otherwise, main:foo would be a redlink), while the second has the advantage of working more reliably in a couple cases.

What I'm trying to do is make main:Foo "jump" to cv:Foo when cv:foo exists, ''even if main:foo doesn't exist'' (basically it would treat all mainspace pages as redirects to cv pages, but only if the cv page exists and not the mainspace page). I had main:Bar jumping to cv:Bar fine, but if cv:Foo redirected to cv:Bar, accessing main:Foo would mysteriously stop at cv:Foo even if I increased the redirect limit. What I'm trying to do now is follow the redirects internally, without relying on Mediawiki to do it automatically - unfortunately, that has proved to be harder than I had hoped (and I sent my web server into an infinite loop while trying). I will try to work on this some more when I get a chance, although I'm not sure when that'll be yet :(. For now, feel free to fix broken double mainspace redirects as necessary, as long as redirects in the DF2012 namespace stay pointing to the right page (and new mainspace redirects get added in the DF2012 namespace too). --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:21, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

:You're treating cv like a namespace--it's not. It is simply shorthand for "fill in the current version here". [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Briess&diff=182404&oldid=181281 As I discovered a long time ago on a server not far away], linking from Main:Foo to cv:Foo tends to break redirection chains. If, instead of linking to cv:Foo, you link to DF2012:Foo, it might just work. It would, of course, be better if your patch could evaluate cv itself, but even if you have to hardcode the current version it's a single point of maintenance that requires update very infrequently. (For that matter, we could probably dispense with the cv hack entirely and just have a bot update mainspace links from DF2012 to DF201X when we switch to a new version.)--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:05, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
::I know cv isn't a namespace - I was just trying to avoid future confusion when the DF2012 namespace changes. It's interesting that changing "cv" to "DF2012" fixes some broken redirects, although I've found that simply making an edit to a broken redirect can usually fix it as well. I've actually had the most problems with double redirects when the second one (in the DF2012 namespace) doesn't use the DF2012 prefix (e.g. main:Foo containing <nowiki>[[cv:Foo]] and DF2012:Foo containing [[Bar]]</nowiki>). I'd rather keep the cv alias even if it isn't necessary for mainspace redirects when I get the patch to work, since it makes it easier to refer to the current version of the page (for example, several MDF articles contain links to a vanilla page for things that don't change in the mod).
::Also, using aliases like "cv" is supported by Mediawiki; in fact, several WMF wikis use them (for example, "[[wikipedia:WP:Redirects|WP:Redirects]]" on Wikipedia). It's quite likely that Mediawiki isn't processing double redirects using aliases correctly, though, since that's uncommon on most wikis. --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:35, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

In light of the lack of support for the current redirect policy, I propose we replace the current redirect section with:

:Mainspace article pages should use the cv: alias when redirecting to a versioned page, which will automatically update the link when a new version is released. For example, page "Main:Foo" should redirect to page "cv:Bar" (where "Bar" is the page that best describes the topic Foo in the current version).

:Pages in mainspace should only redirect to an older versioned page if that content no longer exists in the current version of the game (e.g. [[Cave river]], [[Chunk]]). In these cases the cv: alias cannot be used.

:Pages inside a versioned namespace should not use the cv: alias. Instead, they should redirect to the best page within that versioned namespace (e.g. [[DF2012:Dodging]], [[v0.31:Drink]]).

:Due to limitations of the wiki software, double redirects should be avoided if possible. When fixing double redirects in mainspace, please make sure to use the cv: alias as appropriate.

If no one objects, I will make this change in a few days.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:21, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

:Okay with me. It may be worth mentioning that double redirects only really need to be changed when they don't work (since changing a lot of redirects that work isn't necessary), but I think it's clearer and more relevant than the current policy. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:26, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Done.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:55, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

I was finally able to get my extension to work after being motivated by one too many malfunctioning redirects. It now causes nonexistent pages in the main namespace to behave exactly like redirects to their DF2012 counterparts (when linked to, accessed directly, and transcluded). Double redirects also work (up to 100, in fact, although that was a temporary safety measure that I'll probably change). This means we'll be able to safely get rid of all mainspace redirects (redirects that redirect to something other than "cv" will still function if not deleted). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:20, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
:What about articles which don't exist in the current version but do exist in older versions? Will those still need mainspace redirects, or will your extension be able to automatically redirect them to v0.31/40d/23a? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 01:29, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
::It ignores all mainspace pages that actually have content, including redirects, so pages like [[masons guild]] won't be affected (unless deleted). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:47, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Done and deployed. [[Cat]] is still treated as a redirect, even though I just deleted it (try clicking on the "redirected from" link). Pages that exist are ignored, so [[Masons guild]] and [[History of Dwarf Fortress]] still function normally (as a redirect to a 23a page and a non-redirect, respectively). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm sending around a bot right now to delete all redirects of the format "foo -> cv:foo" (a surprising number don't fit this format, so I'm leaving them alone for now). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:43, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

:I'm confused. Do we use double redirects or not? Is there a single place we define our linking policy (including redirects), and is it updated?
:I had trouble linking to [[Consolidated_development]] in [[v0.34:Dragon]]. It kept pointing to v0.34:Consolidated_development, which does not exist. I ended up linking to Main:Consolidated_development to make it work. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] ([[User talk:Nahno|talk]]) 10:18, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

::That's a separate problem altogether - links in the versioned namespaces (v0.34, v0.31, 40d, 23a) automatically link to pages within their namespace. I may be able to set up a fallback to mainspace once I'm able to deploy again, but for now the "main:" alias is the intended solution. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 11:36, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

== Google often directs people to the 0.31 page ==

I've noticed a couple of times that finding a wiki page from an external search will often drop me onto a page from an older version. Is it possible to mitigate this somehow for new players? I could imagine something like redirecting old:Bar -> cv:Bar unless the user has come from old:Foo; no idea if that would actually work though. [[User:PeridexisErrant|PeridexisErrant]] ([[User talk:PeridexisErrant|talk]]) 11:48, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

:As a temporary solution, I could write a script that displays a banner of some kind if the user came from an external site. I'll ask Briess if he can do anything on the server level to increase the weighting of the current version's pages. (Obviously there are situations where people are looking for old pages, like [[23a:dungeon master]], so we don't want to disable indexing entirely on old pages.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:03, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

== DF2014? ==

As Toady [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ draws closer to a new release], it might be worthwhile to discuss the addition of a new version to the wiki. The upcoming release covers two years of changes and introduces a number of new plants, foods, drinks, multi-tile trees, climbing, jumping, etc., so it is likely to have significant changes from the current DF2012. To avoid having people start new pages (and lose all the effort spent refining the prior version's page), I think it would be best to have a bot automatically copy over the DF2012 pages as a starting point for DF2014. I would suggest that these copied pages include a noticebox template mentioning that the content may be outdated, so that we can easily track which pages have been reviewed. I think either the {{tl|version check}} or {{tl|old}} template would work. --[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:43, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

:This is what [[User:QuietBot]] did after the 0.34 release, so it's certainly possible to use the same script to migrate to DF2014. I would like a way of tagging migrated pages, since inaccuracies in some pages went unnoticed for months after they were migrated. Since {{tl|old}} is already in use, {{tl|version check}} may be a better solution (it can be reworded slightly, or we can make a separate template for DF2014 migration). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:23, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
:Made [[Template:DF2014 migrated]] as an example. Any thoughts? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:32, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

== Redirects inconsistency ==

Following a redirect is supposed to be exactly the same as going straight to the page it redirects to, but this actually isn't the case:
* Go to [[Seeds]] and you get [[v0.34:Seed]] (outdated)
* Go to http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Seeds&redirect=no and click on the link and you get to [[DF2014:Seed]] (current)
So if you search for "seed", the top result is the DF2014 version. But search for "seeds" and you get the redirect, which sends you to the outdated page instead. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 23:22, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

While I'm talking about redirects, it seems redirects to sections don't work: see [[DF2014:How do I manage my seeds and crops]]. I know MediaWiki is capable of this trick because Wikipedia does it. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 23:32, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

:I have absolutely no idea why [[seeds]] redirects to a v0.34 page - it could be a Mediawiki bug. The section links issue is due to a known issue in the redirect extension we use, which has yet to be fixed. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:01, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
:It looks like deleting both [[Seeds]] and [[DF2014:Seeds]] fixed things (by allowing AutoRedirect to handle the redirects instead). Feel free to tag any others with {{tl|bad redirect}}. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:03, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
::It gets stranger. [[Vial]] redirects explicitly to [[cv:Flask]] which displays (when you look at it with &redirect=no) as [[DF2014:Flask]], but still goes to the v0.34 version. It seems redirects interpret the cv: pseudo-namespace (or whatever it's called) in an outdated way. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 18:08, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
::I've added a note to this page about this issue. If it gets resolved, the note should be removed. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 21:04, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

==Reorganizing versions==

The internet deals with moved content... poorly. Google is still linking to v0.34 pages more than a year after the switch to "DF2014", and even the wiki software still has cached links pointing to the old version pages.

I propose reorganizing versions on the wiki to avoid moving content whenever possible. Instead of having a temporary "current version" namespace that changes occasionally, all the current information gets promoted to the Main namespace. When the next version split occurs, the Main articles as of a certain revision number can be copied to the newly-created permanent "old version" namespace, while all the current information remains in Main. This not only fixes the link rot issue, but it has a few other benefits as well: fewer administrative tasks, no lockdown (a historical version of the Main pages can be copied at any point, even if the Main articles are already modified for the new version), almost all the article history is maintained in the Main article (instead of being spread unevenly across multiple versions), no "temporary" namespaces are needed, fewer problematic long redirect chains, and hopefully less user confusion (since Main gets priority in search results, etc.).

As an example, today we would not have a DF2014 namespace (which is good because "temporary" namespaces historically disappear anyway). If you ran a search for [[seed]] you'd end up at Main:seed, which would have all the current information on seeds. The version box at the top of the page would still link to the older versions of the seed article. When a new version is released, an admin would choose a revision number and copy the Main:seed article as it exists at that revision number to v0.40:seed. That's it. One historical copy that needs little to no new editing, and zero redirections/moves.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:02, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

:Makes sense to me. It would involve a lot of work, though (e.g. fixing templates and categories to account for the current version being in mainspace), although that should be doable thanks to {{tl|category}}, {{tl|version switch}}, etc.. A bot could be set up to copy revisions from before a release date as well, which would be more difficult (and maybe slower) than a direct copy, but not severely. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:24, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

:Actually, there are a few issues with that, namely that there wouldn't be an easy way to distinguish between versioned and non-versioned mainspace pages. There are ways to resolve Google search priority (we can exclude pages from older versions from search engine results if there are newer versions of those pages available, for example). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:47, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::There aren't very many non-versioned mainspace pages, and determining if a page is versioned is as simple as looking for the version template and/or categories added by the version template (e.g. copy [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:Current this category] instead of Main:*). The problem with "suggesting" newer pages to Google is that they obviously aren't crawling our wiki regularly (if they were, the fact that the mainspace redirects point to new pages would automatically be picked up). Even if your Google hints worked they wouldn't do anything for all the other broken links out on the 'net.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:35, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::: Google actually crawls the wiki constantly - we probably get crawl hits from google for a continuous block of 2-3 hours per day, each and every day. Why they are slow to update is beyond me though. I can't remember why we didn't do this initially, but there was a technical limitation involved if I remember correctly. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] ([[User talk:Briess|talk]]) 22:05, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::: There are <meta> tags that can be used to hide pages from search results (for search engines that recognize them, that is). Searching for {{tl|av}} or [[:Category:Current]] might work, although we'd have to make sure all of the DF2014 pages include that (some pages don't, particularly some disambiguation pages, although all of them should). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:53, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

:Is there a particular reason main and current are separate to begin with?—[[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 00:17, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

::It's mostly intended to distinguish between versioned and non-versioned pages and make version-related templates simpler to work with, since every versioned page has a namespace. I wasn't active here in 2010 when this system was created, so Briess and Emi would know more.
::Another issue I just thought of with Loci's suggestion is categories - currently, categories like [[:Category:Animals]] are used to organize the versioned sub-categories. Sure, we can change {{tl|Category}} to categorize mainspace pages in [[:Category:v0.40:Animals]] or [[:Category:DF2014:Animals]], but that would be less straightforward because there wouldn't be a namespace with that name (until pages are migrated when a newer major version is released). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:05, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

:Moving current pages to the main namespace sounds like a great idea. -[[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] ([[User talk:Jecowa|talk]]) 20:47, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Another thought: dealing with migrating redirects could be difficult with this proposal - specifically, determining which redirects should be migrated to a versioned namespace. Redirects can't contain {{tl|av}}, at least not before ``#REDIRECT``. I ''think'' it would be possible to copy pages in two stages, though - all non-redirects first, then all redirects whose targets were also copied. Thoughts? Anything I'm missing? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:41, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Some subpages (particularly /raw and /Edit notice) also deliberately lack {{tl|av}}, although those shouldn't be too hard to handle. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:35, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

:Redirect pages (and all other edge cases I've looked at) can be included in categories (like [[:Category:Current]]) to determine whether or not they should be copied into an archival version. But if the redirects are "properly qualified" then they can all be copied over blindly. Mainspace redirects pointing to versioned information should use a blank namespace (which will be automatically constrained to the archival namespace); mainspace redirects pointing to unversioned information should use an explicit "Main" (which will automatically link back to the unversioned page). Then, when [[[[Toady]]]] gets copied to [[[[v0.4x:Toady]]]] it will point back to [[[[Main:Toady One]]]]. Meanwhile, [[[[Beer]]]], copied to [[[[v0.4x:Beer]]]], will properly point to [[[[v0.4x:Alcohol]]]].--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:00, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

::I think qualifying redirects is the best solution here - categorizing redirects manually is another possible source of errors, since categories (or a lack thereof) would only be visible on the redirect page itself, and [[:Category:Current]] is a hidden category. Copying over mainspace redirects into versioned namespaces would also resolve some issues that have come up due to those not reliably existing currently. I should be able to set up a bot script to add "main:" to current mainspace redirects (and it shouldn't break anything, since those redirects go to other mainspace pages anyway). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:57, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

(Note: I wrote all of this without noticing the previous discussion above.) I was wondering, when the wiki creates a new namespace for a major release again, if it is possible to ''not'' create a namespace for the next current version (e.g. "DF202x") and instead have the mainspace articles (which are currently redirects) become the new cv and move the content there. Therefore, [[cv:Cat]] would just be "[[Cat]]" (or [[Main:Cat]]).

Certain namespace-related templates like [[Template:Ns/0]] would need to be changed, though nothing significant as far as I know. For most cases, any "DF2014" would be replaced with "Main" or even blank. There's also multiple extensions handling the current namespace system and they may need to be modified too, though I'm not sure if or how much. I'm guessing based on the discussions above that it will change stuff up.

My reason is the current namespace is increasingly becoming more anachronistic. "DF2014" could be misinterpreted as "this page is about the 2014 version of the game" or "this page was last updated in 2014", which I've seen a few people in forums mention. Granted that [[Template:Av]] is on the top of very article, I still think the namespace is inconsistent with the recentness of the article. But how is this related to what I'm asking for? Let's say we continue the current system: if we happen to do a new namespace change this year and create DF2020, the next major release (after graphics/UI) will be mythgen, which is estimated to take several years to develop (the Big Wait), and so the anachronism will start over again. The proposed way will prevent this from occurring for the next major release and every release thereafter.

I think the confusion with having a namespace that becomes old-fashioned overtime supersedes the confusion with not marking current versioned articles with a namespace. Most users just search "Cat" on the search bar and naturally expect to get information about the latest release of DF. So if users go a page that's just titled "Cat", they won't expect outdated info about cats from a previous release. That's how the current system works anyways. We'll be skipping the two-step process that we have now. It'll make several wiki tasks much simpler as well. Editors can create new articles for current versions without remembering to add a namespace. It'll fix any existing issues with (double) redirects; instead of [[Main:Kitten]] redirecting to [[cv:Kitten]], which goes to [[DF2014:Kitten]], which then redirects to [[DF2014:Cat]], [[Main:Kitten]] would just redirect to [[Main:Cat]]. And the cv: alias will no longer be necessary since "cv:" = "Main:" and will be forever.

There's no need to differentiate the current version and previous versions with a namespace for the current version is what I'm saying. Articles of previous versions will retain their respective namespaces. Users will still type "40d:Cat" to go to the 40d version of the article, but if they want the current version, they'll just type "Cat" (like now). The mainspace containing the "live" version of an article is natural and would create no uncertainty when browsing the wiki. And it would simplify the wiki somewhat and future-proof this anachronism problem. As a bonus, this change will also prevent web search engines from showing previous version pages when typing "DF cat" or something. (This isn't happening right now as DF2014 has been the current namespace for ~6 years, but it'll happen again when everything moves to a new namespace.)

This is the gist of it, and I may have ignored most of the problems with this proposal. I have personally wished for the whole version namespacing be made less complicated and have been seeking for a solution, and I feel like this is the best way to go about in the future. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:27, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

:<s>Whoops, looks like Loci already proposed this exact thing long ago. I definitely missed that discussion and should have checked first. My apologies. I'll move my text to that section and remove this one. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:36, 14 August 2020 (UTC)</s> Done. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:40, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

:The main issue I have with that is that putting pages about the current version in a namespace also differentiates between those pages and pages not about ''any'' version (for example, [[Toady One]] does not need a 40d or v0.34 page). Yes, we can use {{tl|av}} to mark versioned pages, but people often forget to add that to new pages. The current system also allows determining whether a page is versioned or not from its title, which makes migrations a lot faster. Relying on {{tl|av}} would require either reading the content of every page (which would slow scripts down significantly) or cross-checking with the list of all pages including the template (feasible, but a bit more complicated, and still susceptible to missing templates). I suppose that manually fixing and migrating pages missing {{tl|av}} later wouldn't be too much work, though.
:I am definitely in favor of changing "DF2014" (or a new namespace) to "Current", though. I was in favor of "DF2014" in 2014, but I don't think it makes sense anymore, and "Current" seemed to be a popular alternative in both the DF2012 and DF2014 discussions on the matter. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:02, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

== Weird redirect behaviour ==

[[Pump stack]] redirects to [[cv:Screw pump#Pump stack]]. If you look at the redirect itself it says it redirects to DF2014 namespace, which is correct. But if you actually follow the redirect, it goes to v0.34 namespace. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 16:10, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
:Yeah, that's part of the issue described in the above section (the wiki caching part, not on Google's end.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:00, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

== v50 organization ==

Some wiki admins have had a talk on Discord and decided that the most sustainable path forward is to put content for all future versions of DF in the main namespace. We will be working on a bot to do this in the next few days. Feel free to chime in with suggestions here. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:56, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

:Is it maybe possible to do backwards-namespacing? Like we have a "Main" namespace, which people are free to update, and whenever there's a new version of DF the "Main" namespace is copied into a namespace for the then old version, much like how you'd branch a stable branch from a development branch when working with a git-project? [[User:Therahedwig|Therahedwig]] ([[User talk:Therahedwig|talk]]) 23:13, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

::Yeah, we could do that if we decide to. We were talking about doing that for v50, actually, and might still do something similar to preserve edit history if it doesn't end up being too hard to automate. Our hope is that we will not introduce new namespaces for v50 -> v5x, unless there is a serious breaking change (and hopefully there isn't one). But if we change our mind, one advantage of the type of migration you mentioned is that it can be done retroactively - we can copy historical revisions that were current at the time of the release, and would only lose some typo fixes made after the release that apply to earlier versions as well. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:11, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

ETA is < 24 hours. Doing some final checks on a migration script. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 07:08, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

: We should really have a task list as there are many things that change and need updating. Including but not limited to:
:* Most templates that used the previous namespace convention broke, including nav templates.
:* Many game files changed locations and their pages need to be updated.
:* Raws need to be updated.
:* Various features added, changed, removed.
:* UI has been changed -- though I am more inclined to wait for classic release to avoid extra work --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 06:56, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

"''Raws need to be updated.''" Including applying text wraparound where necessary, I suppose - more than a few of them have proven to be that special kind of...''difficult'' to navigate otherwise, shall we say? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:There is already a task list in the [[#v50 migration|section below]] that includes templates and raws, with an explanation. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be an idea to add to the Sitenotice to remove the {{tl|migrated article}} tag when an article has been fully updated? I see many articles that seem to be updated still have the tag. And/or advise to make use of the {{tl|verify}} for sections still in need of checking? --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 10:12, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== v50 migration ==

The initial migration script is done. New content is in the '''main''' namespace, e.g. [[Cat]]. Old content is still at [[DF2014:Cat]]. History was migrated to the ''new'' (main namespace) articles.

I know several things are broken still. Please reply if you find any others:
<div style="border-left: 2px solid red">
* <s>Versioned templates haven't been migrated yet (e.g. {{tl|vermin}} on [[Ant]])</s>
** Fixed. Most were migrated by a bot.
* Raws are missing on all pages that use them.
** This also affects sidebars, such as on [[Cat]] and [[Microcline]].
** Update: The DFRawFunctions extension has been upgraded to include v50 raws, using the "v50:" prefix for filenames instead of "DF2014:". I haven't finished a migration script to create the /raw pages themselves, but they can typically be created manually by copying the DF2014 /raw pages and changing "DF2014" to "v50" everywhere. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:20, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
* Some pages where the DF2014 page was a redirect to a main namespace page that contained content were migrated incorrectly.
** In this case, the main namespace page is usually a redirect to itself. This can be fixed by undoing LethosorBot's edit to the main namespace page, then copying the content to the DF2014 page.
** Update: most seem to have been fixed manually - thanks! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
* <s>Some main-namespace talk pages redirect to DF2014 talk pages. Some of these redirects work, and some (usually older ones) do not.</s>
** Fixed with a bot. Some redirects from talk pages to other deleted talk pages are now broken, e.g. [[Talk:Above_ground]] (exists) -> [[Talk:Tile attributes]] (redlink). I am leaving them like that because they redirect to where the talk page should be created, but I'm also fine with people deleting them if they really want to. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
* {{tl|quality}} for new articles is disabled (see below)
* Some links from DF2014 to Main weren't working: e.g. the version selector [[DF2014:Mason's workshop]] was linking to [[DF2014:Main:Mason's workshop]] instead of [[Main:Mason's workshop]]. I'm not sure exactly why, but I fixed it with a change to the NamespaceLinks extension. Let me know if you spot similar broken links. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:19, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
</div>

—[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:54, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:The quality levels of the 50.03 pages seem to be missing. I'm not sure if that's covered under that first point. [[User:Trainzack|Trainzack]] ([[User talk:Trainzack|talk]]) 06:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::If the the [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Quality]] feature can be made to work with namespace scheme change, I suggest to automatically assign the lowest quality rating to all pages, alternately add the {{tl|old}} to all pages. Otherwise there will be a lot of pages that will fall through the cracks. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:12, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::I disabled {{tl|quality}} in the main namespace because it would require some rework to make the rating script and the template work properly there. Feel free to take a stab at the template. I will see what can be done on the extension side. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

It appears some pages are redirecting recursively and never resolving correctly, like the [[https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Character_table&redirect=no|character table]] and [[tileset repository]] 07:35, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
: Indeed, these can be caught here: [[Special:DoubleRedirects]] --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:51, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

It might be useful to change the notice title to "release information '''for editors'''" --[[Special:Contributions/142.59.195.176|142.59.195.176]] 10:26, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Can do. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::New here, hello. Should we set a date where we remove/only show the banner for logged in users. There are (some) pages that have 4 different notices about the upgrade. [[Engraving]] is one such page, the top banner states "information for editors", we then have the "this page was migrated" banner, a version selection which warns the article might be inaccurate, and a smaller banner saying the page might need to be updated. Quite a lot of screen space, I think we can start to slowly reduce the amount of warnings this coming month? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 10:07, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Main talkpages seem to redirect to DF2014 talk. Not sure if it is intentional but I like it, though we should pay attention when creating new discussion relating to v50 ending up there.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 14:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:That's unintentional. I specifically wrote the migration script to not move talk pages, but that has the side-effect of leaving any previously-created "Talk -> DF2014 talk" redirects intact. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Yo Lethosor, are we adding graphic sprites for the pages in some way? Or are we waiting for you to add some sort of new template or something? I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that the current templates don't allow that. Not sure if I'm allowed to change/create any templates either, as I don't want to break things for hundreds of pages. Edit: And IF the icons are allowed, should they be left alone, or 2×-3× sized like how the Minecraft wiki does it? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 14:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Depends on which templates you mean. There are copyright concerns with uploading a premium sprite sheet, for instance. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::I'm not talking about uploading an entire sprite sheet. I'm just talking about individual icons for each respective page. One image for cows, one for horses, one for werebeasts, etc. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 16:50, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::If we do that for every creature in the sprite sheet, that's not much different (in terms of copyright) from uploading the entire sprite sheet. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:09, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::Is there someone we can talk to about that? We finally get this new game with graphics, and then we can't use the very graphics of the game? No matter what the rules are, I'd say that would be the stupidest thing ever. I know I'm infamous here when it comes to copyright and images and stuff, but about 80% of game wikis out there are completely unofficial, and use game file images like no one's business. I can't imagine anyone's door being knocked on if we used the game's sprites, but I won't add any here until we have a go-ahead. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 17:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::...I've made noise in Mayday's direction on this matter, at least (prob an incorrect maneuver, ''but'').[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 17:55, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::: I hope some sort of arrangement can be made so we can use the new sprites with permission/limits, just as we are using the raw files. Otherwise we are all (devs and editors alike) shooting ourselves in the foot here.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 21:07, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::::I just thought of something. We're supposedly not allowed to upload entire sprite sheets, right? What if - for the time being - we just use a few of them for the purpose of testing out new infoboxes? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:46, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::I don't know. If someone could ask Kitfox and post the response here, that would be great. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::::::I've reached out to Alexandra, but she hasn't answered yet. Until then I found these old approvals from the previous community manager, Feeona: ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.msg8243633#msg8243633 link1], [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176640.msg8243642#msg8243642 link2]). Waiting for a newer response until we begin mass uploads is probably the politer option, but like Zippy said, it is also standard for wikis to use game sprites with less approval. I second their idea of trying it out with a few images to test the infoboxes. On the extreme off-chance (and I do think it is) Kitfox protests we can always remove these few. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 22:19, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::And here is a third, more official statement: ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.msg8249718#msg8249718 link3]). Perhaps that address of info@kitfoxgames.com is the better channel to ask for a confirmation, rather than Discord DMs, but I will be going to bed, so it is best if someone else does that. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 22:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::Thanks for tracking this down! Ok, sprites should be fine, but let's avoid uploading the entire premium tileset as a single image, for instance (as the forum thread says, "use common sense"). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:21, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::: Looks good, permission is always preferable over fairuse, I think it is a win win for all involved. I agree that we shouldn't upload entire sprite sheets (e.g. there is no reason to upload the windmill from every direction or whole construction phase for workshops) and that there are a lot of details that needs to be ironed out through testing. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 05:07, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::We have a green light on uploading all and any sprites. Their response to me can be seen [https://i.imgur.com/BhmHjzC.png here]. I'm sure someone else confirmed it before me. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:00, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Shifting temporarily to a new issue, is the documentation of [[Template:ArticleVersion]] outdated? It would seem so to me, since the current version no longer has its own namespace, with the templates needing updating being different ones. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 18:30, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:I think it is still accurate enough. We left open the possibility of making another namespace in the future, albeit with a different migration strategy - see [[#v50 organization|above]]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Some Changes to infoboxes might be needed. Too bad [[User:Doorkeeper]] isn't around. He did a great work with navbox project--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:52, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

I just realized that raw files aren't stored as regular wiki pages but loaded via the DFRawFunctions extension (hence the need to update). Good news it's going to be handled in bulk, consistently and relatively easy to updated. Even better it's Lethosor problem ;) Also I just realized that all the "raw files" (txt files in the new vanilla folder) are released into the public domain. Both are probably not news to the vets but I'll leave it here for those who less up to date like myself. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:35, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

: I noticed that some templates aren't working properly in the new namespace, e.g. [[Basalt]] entry had its raw updated manually but the infobox fail to show any details. Cursory look suggest {{t|layerlookup/0}} need a minor tweak. This should do the work
:: Replace: <nowiki>{{layerlookup/aux|{{{{FULLPAGENAME}}/raw}}|uses={{{uses|}}}|wiki={{{wiki|}}}}}</nowiki>
:: With___: <nowiki>{{layerlookup/aux|{{</nowiki>:<nowiki>{{FULLPAGENAME}}/raw}}|uses={{{uses|}}}|wiki={{{wiki|}}}}}</nowiki>
: Not sure what the plan and ETA with raws update so I didn't touch this high usage template for now. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 08:11, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

::Please do feel free to make this update. I am still working on a script to create the <code>/raw</code> pages themselves. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

== v50 specific issues ==
=== Graphics===
Follow up on the use of game sprites and the need to trying it out with a few images to test the infoboxes. First sprite [[:File:Beds v50.png]] was uploaded and used on [[Bed]] entry. Any thoughts? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:06, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:Seems like it should be rearranged to be horizontal. Also, has there been a serious discussion about copyright? Full screenshots are 100% fine, but you start going into a grey area when you upload pieces of a spritesheet. I'm of the opinion that it's all fine as long as it's inconvenient to reconstruct the full sheet from the individual images. Maybe a further restriction could be you shouldn't upload any of the art unless it's used in an infobox (maybe an exception for pieces of the UI). And one more restriction could be you shouldn't show everything, like in your bed example, maybe just the wooden bed is good enough, leave out the stone and metal, especially since those can only be made from strange moods. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:43, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::Actually, your bed image is kinda bad for showing off what a bed looks like because it doesn't show the pillow/blankets. That might point to cropped screenshots being the best path, although less convenient for the uploader, as you don't get details left out. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:46, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::I created a new license template [[Template:Copyright game]], based it on the way the RimWorld wiki does things. Call it a prototype, but it's probably how your bed image should be labelled. Indeed, I added it to it already. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]])

::: I agree that the horizontal arrangement would suit better here and that we should strive to represent how things look in-game. Otherwise, I am not too concerned about people being able to reconstruct anything (lets just say that ''anyone'' interested in that can get the real thing from the game files), also it seem we have permission to use the sprits on top of fairuse. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 19:55, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

::: Modifying the existing template to allow the inclusion of the new sprites is easy (Something like [https://ibb.co/zFXCrjd this]?) The big question is the matter of consistency is there any exceptions that will break the format (size wise with variant bloat for example), the sprite naming format, etc --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:44, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
::: If we are going to show a variant for each material type, then maybe these should be added as separate images so we can add a tooltip for each image. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:49, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

:I've got another prototype going here and here: [[User:Brightgalrs/vector.css]] and [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox]]. (You'll need to add the css stuff to your own /vector.css). Basically it's a way to recolor images using css classes. No idea if there's a better way. Also, the real implementation would require a change to [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
:Should mention, there ''is'' a different way, just upload each image 16 times, one for each coloring. But maybe that's not very elegant. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:45, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

: It should be noted that soon the classic edition will be released, hence one should plan to have both the Premium and classic alongside in that little space --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 03:14, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::I'm looking into a tab extension to potentially support this in infoboxes. Perhaps [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Tabs Extension:Tabs]? I tried [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TabberNeue Extension:TabberNeue], but it displays a placeholder if JavaScript is disabled, which isn't great. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: The Neue Tabber seem to works pretty much like the old one (which fandom [https://coding-help.fandom.com/wiki/Tabber#Adding_images_into_tabbers still use]) defaulting to showing the first tab only. Quick look suggest that neue work the same, plus the notice that 'Tabber requires Javascript to function' warning? if so, and if it is a bother, then you should be able to edit out the tabberneue-noscript string in code. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 06:29, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: I much prefer your tabber solution, but if that fails we can also use the gallery slideshow mode. If so, beware it has no way to control image size so the images have to be maliciously uploaded using the exact same size. example:
<gallery mode="slideshow">
File:SteelSample.png
File:TinSample.png
File:ZincSample.png
File:GoldSample.png
</gallery> --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:19, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

==== adding premium set to Infobox ====
I am unclear where are we going with this? 
1) Will (A) tabs be implemented, (B) we be using mediawiki toggle [[Template_talk:V50_workshop|example]] for premium and classic/blocked, (c) put images side by side, or (d) something else? 
2) Also [[silver]] and [[Pig iron]] use very different image style for example. 
3) Anything else you want ? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 12:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

: Personally, I would love tabs to be implemented, but I think that side by side might be best for most. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 12:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
: Here is rough layout we can use. It should fit most buildings given the default sprite size. There is also a different floor plan for both (inspired by reddit)

{|
|- valign=top
|
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse; "
|+ 5x5
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc; "
|<div class="mw-customtoggle-infoboxtab mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="border-top-right-radius: 10px; border-top-left-radius:10px;">toggle</div>
|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|- valign=top
|colspan=2|<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">
[[File:Siege workshop.png|center|160px]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab"">
{|
|rowspan=2 style="width:50%; font-size: 125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Siege workshop}}</center>
|style="line-height: 1em; font-size: 125%;"|
{| style="border-spacing:4px;"
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:12px; height:12px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|}
|-
| style="text-align: center;" | Layout
|}
</div>
|}
|
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse; "
|+ 3x3
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc; "
|colspan=2 style="text-align: right;"|<div class="mw-customtoggle-infoboxtab mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="float:left; border-top-right-radius: 10px; border-top-left-radius:10px;">toggle</div>{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|- valign=top
|rowspan=2 style="width:50%;"|
<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">[[File:Carpenter's workshop.png]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab""><center>
{| style="font-size: 175%; border-spacing: 0; background-color: black; border: 2px solid black"
|- 
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|"|7:0:0}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|{{=}}|6:0:0}}
|-
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
|-
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|]|0:0:1}}
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
|}</center></div>
|
{| style="border-spacing:5px;"
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|-
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
| style="width:18px; height:18px; background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
|}
|-
| style="text-align: center;" | Layout
|}
</div>
|
{| style="width:200px; height:100px; padding:10px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse;"
|+ 1x1
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc;"
| colspan=3 style="text-align:center;"|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|-
| style="border-right: 1px dotted #545557;"|[[File:Screw_press.png|32px|center|link=]]
| style="font-size:125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Screw press}}</center>
| style="border-left: 1px dotted #545557;"|<center>{{Template:Floor Plan Screw press}}</center>
|}
|
{| style="width:200px; height:100px; padding:10px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse;"
|+ 1x3
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc;"
| colspan=3 style="text-align:center;"|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
|-
| style="border-right: 1px dotted #545557;"|[[File:water_wheel.png|32px|center|link=]]
| style="font-size:125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Water wheel}}</center>
| style="border-left: 1px dotted #545557;line-height:normal;"|<center>{{Template:Floor Plan Water wheel}}</center>
|}
|}
:Any thoughts on the direction and or any and all of its elements? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:16, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

::I kind of like side-by-side, if it fits. If anyone wants to implement a toggle button or tabs, I would ask that that be implemented in a template for now, so that e.g. we could change a toggle button to tabs in a single place if we decide to install an extension to support that. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:14, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

::: I noticed a comment saying that [[impassable tile]] are no longer used in v50, is that true for all constructions? If so, floor plans are no longer needed, making things much easier as we can fit everything in except the 5v5 constructions like trade depot (and even these can be placed one above the other if so desired). If not, any thought on the alternative floor plan design? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:46, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

:::: None of the constructions have blocking tiles any more from my experience playing. I haven't tested siege weaponry with that stuff, but none of the workshops have it, nor does any furniture. (walls and fortifications will of course obstruct movement [[User:AndrielChaoti|AndrielChaoti]] ([[User talk:AndrielChaoti|talk]]) 18:47, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
::::: Ok, I have removed them from v50. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 23:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I have added a basic side by side variant to [[Template:V50 workshop]] and [[Template:Building]] for testing, let us know if there any issues. Few notes:
* The default image naming scheme of <code>workshop-name.png</code> will likely conflict with existing images here or on commons, maybe another naming scheme should be used like <code>v50 workshop-name.png</code> as it is with ascii pictures.
* There is inconsistency in image size. If you want to use large zoomed images then toggle is best, otherwise they need to be all in native size (96px for 3x3).
* In the current version the code roughly centers the images and if there is a big image like with [[Siege workshop]] it drops to a new line --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 23:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

==== Bizarre palette-swapping idea/prototype ====
No idea if this is a good idea, since it takes a bit of time to set up, and there might be some performance issues... and maybe display issues?

But take a look at this:
{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock|palette-name=amber}}

It's way to swap palettes on an image, although the image itself is a table, with each cell representing a pixel. The template itself looks like this:
<code><nowiki>{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock|palette-name=saffron}}</nowiki></code>
Input the pattern and desired palette name.

I've got a larger showcase here: [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwapShowcase]]. Only did a rock pattern so far, but all palettes are implemented.
The major use for this would be on each stone, metal, wood, etc. type's page. The palette could be read directly from the raws. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 03:22, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

:From a technical perspective, my primary concern is indeed performance. Both on the server side and client side, a large number of tables that large (in terms of markup and cell count, that is) tend to be resource-intensive to generate and render. I saw your image-filtering experiments on [[User:Brightgalrs/vector.css]], and while that strikes me as a newer and less-backwards-compatible approach, it would probably be more resource-friendly.
:Is this color adjustment something the game is doing natively? i.e. does this accurately match what the game displays? I bet we could slap together an image-filtering extension (or find an existing one?) that can do this if needed. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:49, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah that's what I suspected. The images the template creates are spot on, checked it against a screenshot I took of some mica rocks in-game. The css stuff is unfortunately totally incorrect, was cool to learn about it though, so not a complete waste of my time :p. The premium, in-game graphics are true sprites, basically patterns of indexed colors. Each of the in-game colors (which are significantly expanded over the 16 ascii colors, there's 116/117) there is a palette defined in "\Dwarf Fortress\data\vanilla\vanilla_descriptors_graphics\graphics\images\palettes.png". Each indexed color of the sprite is swapped for the corresponding color in the palette. Because of that, the css stuff doesn't work since it's doing the hue/saturation/brightness changes to the entire sprite.
::I've looked into an existing mediawiki extension, couldn't find anything. One thing I did't really look at is some type of lua script/module that would basically emulate what the game is doing. So some function that takes in the base image as well as the desired palette, and based on that finds and replaces each color. No idea what mediawiki's capabilities are on that front. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 05:31, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
:::We do have Scribunto installed now, so it's totally possible to do something in Lua too - forgot about that. I can add you to the group that grants access to edit the Module namespace if you want to give that a shot. If we use an extension, we'd probably need a custom one, similar to DFDiagram (or perhaps DFDiagram could be extended - it's in dire need of a rewrite anyway). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:43, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::::I asked around on the mediawiki irc, I think scribunto/lua is a deadend, at least for taking an uploaded image and doing stuff to it with a lua script. However I did come up with this even more bizarre solution, using block elements. [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwapShowcase2]], maybe less resource intensive? Definitely displays a lot worse though, probably unusable.
::::{{User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/PaletteSwitch|templatename=User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox/Rock2|palette-name=saffron}}
::::I dunno, maybe none of this is worth it and we should just write some external program to put all the images together offline, and then just mass upload. It wouldn't be ''that'' many... [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 06:37, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

====Is there an easy way to just paste images from the clipboard?====

I use KDE spectacle to take screenshots straight to the clipboard (after cropping) -- is there an easy way to just paste (and auto-upload) an image into an article? It would make it a lot easier to contribute images. [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 23:35, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Unfortunately there is not. I would be open to a MediaWiki extension to support this if someone finds one. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:32, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:: Looks like this could do it, but I haven't used it before: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SimpleBatchUpload

=== Hotkeys/Menu navigation ===
Most key bindings and menus have changed. Should the article reflect a) only the old version, b) only the GUI version or c) both? For example, [[Bridge|bridges]] used to be built via {{k|b}} -> {{k|g}}, but now it's in Place strucutures {{k|b}} -> Constructions {{k|n}} -> Bridge {{k|b}}. What should be written in the article? Currently, it's {{k|b}} -> {{k|g}}. I ''think'' it should be only b), but I am not sure if there will be differences regarding hotkeys or menus between the premium version and the free version and then, c) would be the most appropriate option. --[[User:Prometherus|Prometherus]] ([[User talk:Prometherus|talk]]) 10:16, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

: Not sure. I wish the classic release soon --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 16:45, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:: Are you Toady's herald? Looks like it was just released! [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:18, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:: And our questions are answered, the old hotkeys seem to have been thrown out. Part of me is disappointed (useless muscle memory) but also relieved (unified UI for both versions is good in general and for the wiki). [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:25, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::: According to info, in a sort of 'demo version' at that. I'll wait a little while longer, for myself.[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 18:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::::It's unlikely that keybindings in it will change significantly. My vote is that we should include information for both premium and classic, everywhere. Hopefully the keybindings are not different between versions. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:26, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Shouldn't it be based on the 50 or what verion the article is written for? [[User:Dominick|Dominick]] [[User_talk:dominick|(TALK)]] 18:42, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:::: The keybindings seem to be consistent between versions, (haven't checked exhausitvely, but since the menu layout is the same I think it is a good assumption). Should also keep in mind/consider that not all actions have keybindings. An option would be write 'Click on the <Example Text> icon or press {{k|E}}' [[User:Koos|Koos]] ([[User talk:Koos|talk]]) 23:14, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

=== Removed features & concepts ===

Since they're removed concepts, I've set [[Room]] to be a redirect for [[DF2014:Room]] and created [[Template:Activity zones]] for the nav bar bedrooms, etc, and made the necessary changes to [[Bedroom]] for it. Is this the correct approach, before I go on much further? (also a note, if it is, then [[Template:v50_rooms]] probably needs to be deleted) I also imagine that considering the number of changes in the interface, that things like [[Adventure mode]] and related pages might best be truncated to "not in 50.03" and when it does make it across, being more deliberately brought over in pieces? [[User:HawkOwl|HawkOwl]] ([[User talk:HawkOwl|talk]]) 06:23, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:Usually it is marked with [[Template:Removed_feature]]. For example: [[Dipscript]] or [[Party]]. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:45, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:: Ah, that's fair. Should that be mentioned in [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Versions#Redirects]]? [[User:HawkOwl|HawkOwl]] ([[User talk:HawkOwl|talk]]) 10:03, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:::I think the redirect policy mostly had in mind things that were removed a ''long'' time ago, like [[Tax collector]] and [[Economy]] (and the latter actually has a stub page as well). I guess we could clarify. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:34, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: The "current" redirects also cause the version box to incorrectly show that the current version has a page - e.g. [[23a:Cave_river]] shows a v50.04 version, but it's just a redirect back to that version. Similarly, what should happen to redirects like [[Clothes maker]], where a concept has evolved? It currently goes to [[23a:Clothes maker]] - that's correct if the user is trying to look up a very old concept, but if a new user is looking for "how to make clothes", they should be directed to [[Clothier]]. --[[User:Danny252|Danny252]] ([[User talk:Danny252|talk]]) 12:16, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

:::: One should be careful with cv redirects. Most that were recently adjusted were unused plural forms (that should probably be deleted) but few like [[Crown]] needed that for backward compatibility. Removing the [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&type=revision&diff=279966&oldid=219482 cv part] means the the link on [[v0.31:Tilesets]] is now broken. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 22:30, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

:::::If [[v0.31:Tilesets]] is about v0.31, it should not be using "main:" in its links - ''all'' of those links are going to pages about v50, not v0.31, regardless of whether the target is a redirect or not. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:37, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::: You right, I removed it. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 17:55, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Crown cv redir issue is now fixed, I believe. As goes with such cases where one can simply revert the troublesome edit, unless I've mistepped, myself? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 23:52, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
:Both [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&diff=prev&oldid=280026] and [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Crown&diff=prev&oldid=279966] should not have had any effect, because "cv" is an alias to the main namespace now, just like "main". Proof: [[Crown]], [[cv:Crown]], [[main:Crown]]. It's possible caching is coming into play here, although I purged the redirect cache after making that alias change earlier this month... —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:02, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

I think there have been some changes not captured, but as a newb, I'm afraid to edit the page(s). A good example is Strawberry. I'm playing the Steam version right now and Strawberry plants are "not relevant to brewing" in Labor > kitchen > veg / fruit / leaves. Unless I'm mistaken and need to process them? Another example is the trade caravan = it seems the 3 square pathing no longer happens; it's just yak(s). 12:31, 28 December 2022 (UTC) 12:29, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, none of the workshop buildings in v50 have blocking tiles any more. There's a comment to the like in data/vanilla/vanilla_buildings/objects/building_custom.txt that says this "[BLOCK:1:0:0:0] workbenches no longer block". Hesitant to update that template as I'm not sure if it's referenced for all of the old versions too. [[User:AndrielChaoti|AndrielChaoti]] ([[User talk:AndrielChaoti|talk]]) 05:54, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

=== creature infobox prototype (moved) ===

Check it out, I made a temporary template and added it to the [[cow]]s page. Now it shows the sprites (but not the zombified versions yet). I wanted to show everyone a prototype of what v50 creature infoboxes should look like. Or at least something similar to it. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:11, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
:Hi, I'm new to editing wikis but I have done a bit of work with sprite sheets and I've been going through the DF data files to find the different graphics hoping to help with the animal pages. I've thrown together a template with grass and a few nature sprites (plants, a tree, and a rock) for size reference but I'm unsure how large the 'display' tiles in the middle of the template should be to suit all animals. I can see in the sprite sheets that some land animals have an adult and child sprite, so two tiles. Others have a male, female, and child, but after seeing you include the zombie cows I'm unsure if I should make it twice the size to add them too. Alternatively, I could grab some tiles from the haunted biomes for the zombie animals and make a separate template for a side-by-side comparison. Either way, let me know if this helps. I'd like to help with other graphics too as we add the premium tilesets but the animals seemed the easiest to tackle with me being new to wiki editing. ~~[[User:UristTheSeventh|UristTheSeventh]]

=== When do we remove the migration note on specific pages? ===

At what point can we remove the "this page was auto migrated from v47" warning? There are a bunch of small pages that are more or less accurate, if I've reviewed them, can I go ahead and remove the warning? [[User:Kelvie|Kelvie]] ([[User talk:Kelvie|talk]]) 23:33, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Yes, feel free to remove it if you think all content is accurate. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== Toggleable image ==

Any objections/comments to using this template for now for toggling between classic and premium images? I'd probably rename it to "Template:Premium-classic thumb image". I'm sure someone can come up with a better UI eventually, but should be easy to migrate at that point. I also think we should use the same customtoggle class for this and for the infobox. [[User:NiftyManiac|NiftyManiac]] ([[User talk:NiftyManiac|talk]]) 23:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

{{User:NiftyManiac/Sandbox/TemplateDualImage|
premium=File:Quickstart-finder.png|
classic=File:Quickstart-finder-partial.png
}}

{{User:NiftyManiac/Sandbox/TemplateDualImage|
premium=File:Quickstart-finder.png|
classic=File:Quickstart-finder-partial.png|
caption=My caption|
width=100px
}}

:This looks nice to me! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:30, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Manager

2023-01-02T02:08:32Z

Halavus:

1/ Why is "*Allows workshop profiles to be set." being written back?

2/ I would have let the section about the removed "Workshop Profiles" feature, as it was quite a major management feature in previous version of df. Returning players (like myself) might look for it? --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 02:08, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Manager

2023-01-02T02:08:18Z

Halavus: Created page with "1/ Why is "*Allows workshop profiles to be set." being written back? 2/ I would have let the section about the removed "Workshop Profiles" feature, as it was quite a major man..."

1/ Why is "*Allows workshop profiles to be set." being written back?
2/ I would have let the section about the removed "Workshop Profiles" feature, as it was quite a major management feature in previous version of df. Returning players (like myself) might look for it? --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 02:08, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Template talk:V50 workshop

2023-01-02T00:44:35Z

Halavus: /* Name */

== Toggle-able Pictures for workshops ==

I'm working on updating this template in order to show both the new graphics for workshops, as well as an option to see the original ASCII. If anyone has any ideas on how to best do that, please let me know, or feel free to take the initiative. —[[User:Velskadi|Velskadi]] ([[User talk:Velskadi|talk]]) 18:00, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I hope Letshor can get a tab extension to work, but in the mean time you can try something like this:
{|
|- valign=top
|
;Minimal change option
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0;"
|rowspan=2|[[File:Carpenter's workshop.png|150px]]
|{{Template:Floor Plan Carpenter's workshop}}
|-
|{{Template:Picture Carpenter's workshop}}
|}
|
;"Tab" option without tabs
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0;"
|Change view
<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">[[File:Carpenter's workshop.png]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">{{Template:Picture Carpenter's workshop}}{{Template:Floor Plan Carpenter's workshop}}</div>
|}
|}
Obviously this is rough draft, I didn't tried to make it look pretty with the right size and arrangement --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:30, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

:Awesome! I will play with these and see what I can get to work. I think the one on the right would be best, if only to keep the infocell from blowing up horizontally.
—[[User:Velskadi|Velskadi]] ([[User talk:Velskadi|talk]]) 18:32, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::My advice is to ignore the infocell, just make it work. Once it works and everyone is happy we can make the code pretty and easy to use. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:34, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Good to know. I'm also realizing that we may need to create new templates for each of the Building Sub-menus (Clothing and Leather, Farming, Furnaces). If there is a clever way of handling these without creating a bunch of templates I'd love to know. I don't want to make a mess of things. —[[User:Velskadi|Velskadi]] ([[User talk:Velskadi|talk]]) 18:38, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
:::: I am not sure what exactly you are referring to.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 19:38, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

This is pretty cool! I had no idea MediaWiki had built-in toggle buttons like that. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:03, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

== Name ==

I would encourage renaming this to {{tl|v50 workshop}}. I'd rather avoid inventing year-based names again after what happened with "DF2014". —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:02, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
: Sounds good! Will I need to delete this page? If so, is that done by just removing the text from it? —[[User:Velskadi|Velskadi]] ([[User talk:Velskadi|talk]]) 18:00, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::What I had in mind was moving the page, to keep its edit history, rather than copying it. I just performed the move (since the "v50" page existed, it required admin access to overwrite, but ordinarily you can move pages without admin access). I left a redirect behind, which should allow existing pages to continue to use the "DF2022" name, but if they are updated to use "v50", you can tag [[:template:DF2022 workshop]] with {{tl|delete}} and I can clean it up. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:42, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
:::All pages using DF2022 have been updated. --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 00:43, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== Building keyboard shortcuts don't work for workshops in subcategories (or isn't documented) ==

I tried with key1=xx|key2=yy but without luck. Can't add the fourth shortcut in {{k|b}}-{{k|o}}-{{k|f}}-{{k|b}} for the [[Butcher's shop]], for example. --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 23:54, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
: Should work now. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 00:12, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:: Indeed, thank you. --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 00:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Soap maker's workshop

2023-01-02T00:40:09Z

Halavus: V50 template name

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{V50 workshop|name=Soap maker's workshop|key=P|job=*[[Soap making]]
|construction=
* [[Bucket]] (empty)
* [[Building material]] (non-[[economic]])
|construction_job=
* [[Soap making]]
|use=
* [[Lye]]
* Animal [[tallow]] or [[Oil]]
|production=
* [[Soap]]
}}{{av}}

This building is used by a [[Soaper|soap maker]] to produce [[soap]].

{{Gamedata}}
{{Workshops}}

Siege workshop

2023-01-02T00:39:38Z

Halavus: V50 template name

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{V50 workshop|name=Siege workshop|key=g|job=[[Siege engineer]]
|construction=
* 3 [[Building material]]s (non-[[economic]])
|construction_job=[[Siege engineer]]
|use=
* [[Wood]]
* [[Ballista arrowhead]]
|production=
* [[Ballista]] parts
* [[Ballista arrow]]s
* [[Catapult]] parts
}}
{{av}}

'''Siege workshops''' produce [[ballista]] and [[catapult]] parts with [[siege engineer]] [[labor]]. They are also responsible for the assembly of siege ammo (namely, [[ballista arrow]]s), whether from wooden logs alone or including a [[metal]] tip.

[[Siege engineer]]s may assemble ballista and catapult parts into stationary [[siege engine]]s, to be loaded and fired by [[siege operator]]s.

==See Also==
*[[Defense design]]

{{Workshops}}

Screw press

2023-01-02T00:39:06Z

Halavus: V50 template name

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{V50 workshop|name=Screw press|key=R|job=[[Presser]], [[Papermaker]]
|construction=
* 2 [[Mechanism]]s
|construction_job=
* [[Mechanic]]
|use=
* [[Quarry bush|Rock nut paste]]
* [[Cotton|Cottonseed paste]]
* [[Flax|Linseed paste]]
* [[Hemp|Hempseed paste]]
* [[Kenaf|Kenafseed paste]]
* [[Olive]]
* [[Honeycomb]]
* [[jug|Empty jugs]]
* [[Slurry]]
|production=
* [[Oil]]
* [[Press cake]]
* [[Honey|Honey bee honey]]
* [[Wax|Honey bee wax cake]]
* [[Sheet]]
}}{{av}}

A '''screw press''' is a special workshop used to press liquids out of various substances. Currently, this consists of pressing [[seed]] pastes or fruit ([[olive]]s) to yield [[oil]] (which can then be made into [[soap]] or cooked) and [[press cake]] (which can be cooked), and pressing honeycombs to yield [[honey]] (which can then be brewed into mead) and wax cake (which can be made into wax crafts). Each pressing job requires an empty [[jug]] to hold the oil or honey.

[[Slurry]] may be pressed into sheets of [[paper]] at the screw press. Unlike other jobs at the screw press, this requires [[papermaker|paper making]] and not [[pressing]]. Sheets of paper also have quality levels, while other products at the screw press do not.

== Bugs ==

* Screw presses sometimes do not allow the "press [[honeycomb]]" job to be added directly; adding the job via the [[manager]] interface should get the work started.

{{Gamedata}}
{{Workshops}}
{{buildings}}

Mechanic's workshop

2023-01-02T00:38:28Z

Halavus: V50 template name

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{V50 workshop|name=Mechanic's workshop|key=h|job=Mechanics
|construction=
* [[Building material]] (non-[[economic]])
|construction_job=
* [[Mechanic]]s
|use=
* [[Stone]]
* [[Table]]
* [[Rope]]
|production=
* [[Mechanism]]s
* [[Health care#Traction benches|Traction bench]]es
}}{{av}}

The '''mechanic's workshop''' is a [[workshop]] which produces [[mechanism]]s out of stone. It is also used to construct [[Health care#Traction benches|traction bench]]es.

==Menu==
'''Mechanic's Workshop'''

*{{k|t}} : Make [[Rock]] [[Mechanism]]s
*{{k|R}} : Make [[Health care#Traction benches|Traction Bench]]

==Common Uses==
*Make [[Mechanism]]s to control [[floodgate]]s, [[trap]]s, etc.
*Make [[Health care#Traction benches|Traction bench]]es to equip [[Activity_zone#Hospital|hospital]] [[zone]]s.

==Notes==
[[Health care#Traction benches|Traction bench]]es require:
* a [[Rope]] (produced in [[Clothier's shop]]), or a [[Chain]] (produced in [[Metalsmith's forge]])
* a [[Table]]
* a [[Mechanism]]

==See Also==
*[[Doctor]]

{{Workshops}}

Metalsmith's forge

2023-01-02T00:37:52Z

Halavus: V50 template name

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{V50 workshop|name=Metalsmith's forge|key=i
|job=
* [[Weaponsmith|Weaponsmithing]]
* [[Armorsmith|Armoring]]
* [[Blacksmith|Blacksmithing]]
* [[Metal crafter|Metalcrafting]]
* [[Trapper]]
* [[Mechanic]]
|construction=
* [[Fire-safe]] [[building material]] (non-[[economic]])
* [[Fire-safe]] [[anvil]]
|construction_job=
* [[Weaponsmith|Weaponsmithing]]
* [[Armorsmith|Armoring]]
* [[Blacksmith|Blacksmithing]]
* [[Metal crafter|Metalcrafting]]
|use=
* [[Coke]] or [[Charcoal]] ([[Fuel]])
* [[Metal]] [[bar]]s
|production=
*[[Armor]]
*[[Weapon]]
*[[Chain]]
*[[Crafts]] - X3 from one metal bar.
*[[Furniture]]
*[[Mechanism]]s
}}{{av}}
{{distinguish|Magma forge}}

[[File:blacksmith_dwarf.jpg|thumb|222px|right|The lack of height helps him focus.]]The '''metalsmith's forge''' is a [[workshop]] used by [[dwarf|dwarves]] to turn [[metal|metal bars]] into useful objects such as [[weapon|weapons]], [[armor]], [[furniture]], [[Currency|coins]], [[ammunition]] for [[siege]] equipment and [[crossbow|crossbows]], [[trap component]]s, and other [[finished goods]]. Depending on the generated world, musical [[instrument]] components may or may not be built here. To build a forge, you must have [[fire-safe]] materials and an [[anvil]]. Every use of the forge, except for [[Decoration|stud]]ding, consumes one unit of [[fuel]] ([[coke]] or [[charcoal]]).

Note that the anvil used to build a metalsmith's forge ''does'' need to be fire-safe—normally anvils can only be made from fire-safe materials, but [[strange mood]]s can create artifact anvils out of metals like [[tin]], which are entirely unusable.

==Workshop labors and skills==
All metallic end products are created at a metalsmith's forge, using four of the five [[Metal industry|metalsmithing]] skills (the exception being [[smelting]]):
* [[Weaponsmith]]s can create [[weapon]]s, [[trap]] components, [[bolt]]s, and [[ballista arrowhead]]s
* [[Armorsmith]]s create [[armor]]
* [[Metal crafter]]s create [[chain]]s and "Other Objects" ([[craft]]s, [[Currency|coins]], [[goblet]]s), musical [[instrument]] components, as well as performing [[Decoration|stud]]ding
* [[Blacksmith]]s create [[anvil]]s, [[block]]s, and all [[furniture]] except chains
* [[Trapping|Trappers]] create animal traps.
* [[Mechanic|Mechanics]] create mechanisms.

==Cost of Items==
The cost of a [[weapon]] or piece of [[armor]] in metal [[bar]]s can be calculated by using material size/3 and rounding down, with no item costing less than one metal bar. The exception to this is some types of finished goods, which are created in different multiples from a single metal bar, depending on the skill of the [[Metal crafter]]. The table on the [[Melt item]] page lists the cost of common items and their yields when melted.

==Size{{version|0.42.01}}==
To create differently sized armor for non-dwarf residents, request it to be made from the workshop as usual. Afterwards, go back to the main workshop menu and look at the {{k|d}}etails of the issued job. {{k|f}}ilter for the race you want to make the item for and press {{k|enter}} twice.
==See also==
*[[Magma forge]]
*[[Metal industry]]

{{Workshops}}

Stoneworker's workshop

2023-01-02T00:37:19Z

Halavus: V50 template name

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{V50 workshop|name=Stoneworker's workshop|key=t|job=[[Stone carving]], [[Stonecutting]], or [[Stone engraving]]
|construction=
* [[Building material]] (non-[[economic]])
|construction_job=
Any [[Stoneworker]] labor:
* [[Masonry]]
* [[Stone carving]]
* [[Stonecutting]]
* [[Stone engraving]]
|use=
* [[Stone]]
* [[Slab]]s
|production=
* Engrave [[memorial|memorial slabs]]
* [[Armor stand]]s
* [[Block]]s
* [[Throne]]s
* [[Coffin]]s
* [[Door]]s
* [[Floodgate]]s
* [[Hatch cover]]s
* [[Grate]]s
* [[Cabinet]]s
* [[Coffer]]s
* [[Statue]]s
* [[Table]]s
* [[Weapon rack]]s
* [[Quern]]s
* [[Millstone]]s
* [[Slab]]s
* [[Altar]]s
}}{{av}}

A '''Stoneworker's workshop''' is where [[stone carver]]s create [[stone]] objects, such as [[statue]]s and [[furniture]], as well as where [[stonecutter]]s create stone [[block]]s. [[Quern]]s, [[slab]]s and [[millstone]]s can only be made at this [[workshop]].

Dwarfs with the [[engraving]] labor also engrave [[memorial]] [[slab]]s at this workshop.

Depending on the generated world, musical [[instrument]]s may or may not be made here.

The workshop can be made out of any building material and requires any of the [[stoneworker]] labors: [[stone carving]], [[stonecutting]], [[stone engraving]] and even [[masonry]] which isn't even used at the workshop.

==Menu==

'''Stoneworker's Workshop'''

*Engrave Memorial [[Slab]]
*Make [[rock]] [[Altar]]
*Make [[rock]] [[Armor stand]]
*Make [[rock]] [[Block]]s
*Make [[rock]] [[Bookcase]]
*Make [[rock]] [[Cabinet]]
*Make [[rock]] [[Coffer]]
*Make [[rock]] [[Coffin]]
*Make [[rock]] [[Door]]
*Make [[rock]] [[Floodgate]]
*Make [[rock]] [[Grate]]
*Make [[rock]] [[Hatch cover]]
*Make [[rock]] [[Millstone]]
*Make [[rock]] [[Pedestal]]
*Make [[rock]] [[Quern]]
*Make [[rock]] [[Slab]]
*Make [[rock]] [[Statue]]
*Make [[rock]] [[Table]]
*Make [[rock]] [[Throne]]
*Make [[rock]] [[Weapon rack]]

==Common uses==
*Construct [[rock]] [[block]]s, which can be stored in [[bin]]s. This frees up storage space.

==Notes==
*As it is cheap to build a Stoneworker's workshop, it can be useful to temporarily make one in any area where you have lots of stone you need to get rid of (e.g. future stockpile space) and then dismantle it when you are through.
*[[Clay]] boulders can not be used in place of stone.
{{Workshops}}

Magma forge

2023-01-02T00:36:39Z

Halavus: V50 template name

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{V50 workshop|name=Magma forge|key=I|job=Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Metalsmith, Metal crafter, Trapper, Mechanic
|construction=
* [[Magma-safe]] [[building material]] (non-[[economic]])
* [[Magma-safe]] [[anvil]]
|construction_job=
* [[Weaponsmith]]ing
* [[Armorsmith|Armoring]]
* [[Metalsmith|Blacksmithing]]
* [[Metal crafter|Metalcrafting]]
* [[Trapper|Trapping]]
* [[Mechanic]]s
|use=
* [[Metal|Metal bars]]
|production=
*[[Weapons]]
*[[Armor]]
*[[Chain]]s
*[[Crafts]]
*[[Goblet]]s (x3 from one metal bar)
*[[Toy]]
*[[Instrument]]
*[[Anvil]]s
*[[Vial|Flask]]s (x3 from one metal bar)
*[[Coins]] (x500 from one metal bar)
*[[Stud]]ding
*[[Furniture]]
*[[Animal trap]]s
*[[Mechanisms]]
}}{{av}}
{{distinguish|Metalsmith's forge}}

The '''magma forge''' is a [[workshop]] used by [[dwarf|dwarves]] to turn [[metal|metal bars]] into useful objects such as [[weapon]]s, [[ammunition]], [[armor]], [[furniture]], [[coins]], [[trap component]]s, metal crafts and [[siege engine|ballista arrow heads]] without the need for [[fuel]] to heat the forge. For its counterpart that use fuel, see [[Metalsmith's forge]].

To build a magma forge, you must have [[magma-safe]] materials (non-magma-safe materials will not be shown on the material list), an [[anvil]], and a build site where at least one tile directly beneath one of its eight non-center tiles contains [[magma]] at a depth of 4/7 or greater.

Note that the anvil used to build a magma forge ''does'' need to be magma-safe—normally anvils can only be made from magma-safe materials, but [[strange mood]]s can create artifact anvils which cannot be used at a magma forge (or, in the case of metals like [[zinc]], at ''any'' forge).

Unlike previous versions, the Magma Forge no longer blocks open space into the molten rock below. If your dwarves (or any other creature) dodges into that open space they will be taking a magma bath.

While it is possible to construct a magma forge without open access to magma beneath any of its 9 squares, it will not operate (you will be unable to add tasks to the workshop). Note also that, like all workshops, ''the central tile must be built over solid ground'', as it is required for a dwarf to stand there to use the workshop, and therefore cannot be the square used to access magma (you will be blocked from building the workshop).

'''In order to build a magma forge, you must have first discovered''' [[magma]] on the map, whether by locating a [[volcano]] or [[magma pool]] or by discovering the [[magma sea]].

==Workshop labors and skills==
Several different types of items can be created at a metalsmith's forge; dwarves will need the correct type of [[labor]] enabled for each. The labors used at a forge are:

*[[Weaponsmith]]ing – [[weapon]]s, [[trap]] components, [[bolt]]s, and [[ballista arrowhead]]s
*[[Armorsmith|Armoring]] (armorer) – [[armor]]
*[[Metal crafter|Metalcrafting]] – [[Restraint|chains]], musical [[instrument]] components, and everything in the "Other Objects" category ([[craft]]s, [[coins]], [[goblet]]s, [[stud]]ding, etc.), except anvils
*[[Blacksmith|Blacksmithing]] – [[Anvil]]s, [[block]]s, and all [[furniture]] except chains.
*[[Trapper|Trapping]] – Animal Traps.
*[[Mechanic]]s – Mechanisms.

==Cost of items==

The cost of a weapon or piece of armor in metal bars can be calculated by dividing its material size by three and rounding down, with no item costing less than one metal bar. The exception to this is some types of finished goods, which are created in different multiples from a single metal bar, depending on the skill of the Metal crafter. The table on the [[Melt]] page lists the cost of common items and their yields when melted.

==See also==
*[[Metalsmith's forge]]

{{Workshops}}

Template:V50 workshop

2023-01-02T00:35:01Z

Halavus: /* Usage */ usage key2

<includeonly>{{infostart|{{{name|{{PAGENAME}}}}}}}
{{infocell|{{Tooltip|Shortcut|Keyboard shortcut}}: {{k-|b|o|{{{key|{{{key1|???}}}}}}|{{{key2|}}}}}|style=text-align:center}}
{{infocell|}}
<div style="display:flex; flex-wrap: wrap; width:100%; background-color:#eaecf0;"><div style="margin: auto;">{{#ifexist:File:{{{image|{{{name|}}}}}}.png|[[File:{{{image|{{{name|}}}}}}.png]]|[[File:Icons8 flat add image.svg|80px|link=File:{{{image|{{{name|}}}}}}.png]]}}</div><div style="margin: auto; font-size:150%;">{{Picture {{#ifexist:Template:Picture {{NAMESPACE}} {{{name}}}|{{NAMESPACE}} {{{name}}}|{{#ifexist:Template:Picture {{{name}}}|{{{name}}}|Blank}}}}}}</div>
</div>
{{#if:{{{job|}}}|{{infoheader|Job Requirement}}
{{infocell|{{{job|}}}}}}}
{{infoheader|Construction}}
{{#ifeq:{{{onecol|no}}}|no|
{{!}}- 
! style{{=}}"text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" {{!}} Materials
! style{{=}}"text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%" {{!}} Jobs
{{!}}-
{{!}} style{{=}}"padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" {{!}}
{{{construction}}}
{{!}} style{{=}}"padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top" {{!}}
| 
! style{{=}}"text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" {{!}} Materials
{{!}}-
{{!}} style{{=}}"padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" {{!}}
{{{construction}}}
{{!}}-
! style{{=}}"text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%" {{!}} Jobs
{{!}}-
{{!}} style{{=}}"padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top" {{!}}
}}
{{{construction_job}}}
{{infoheader|Materials Used}}
{{infocell|{{{use}}}}}
{{infoheader|Goods Created}}
{{infocell|{{{production}}}}}
{{#if:{{{power|}}}|{{infoheader|Power}}
{{infocell|{{{power|}}}}}}}
{{infoend}}{{Category|Workshops}}{{interwiki|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}</includeonly><noinclude>

V50 workshop template, based on {{tl|workshop}}

== Usage ==
This automatically includes the page in the "Workshops" category.

The image tries load <code>File:{{{name}}}.png</code> if the image is already in use here on commons (as it is likely is) use <code>|image=another-name</code>. Note: [[screenshot]]s should be at the "native" resolution.
To add a fourth keyboard shortcut for workshops in subcategories, add <code>|key2=xx</code>

<nowiki>
{{V50 workshop|name=Carpenter's workshop|key=c|job=[[Carpentry]]
|construction=
1 of
* [[Block]]
* [[Stone]]
* [[Wood]]
|construction_job=
* [[Carpentry]]
|use=
* [[Wood]]
|production=
* [[Animal trap]]
* [[Armor stand]]
* [[Barrel]]
* [[Bin]]
* [[Bucket]]
* [[Buckler]]
* [[Bed]]
* [[Cabinet]]
* [[Chair]]
* [[Chest]]
* [[Door]]
* [[Floodgate]]
* [[Shield]]
* [[Table]]
* [[Weapon rack]]
}}
</nowiki>
[[Category:Building templates]]
</noinclude>

Template talk:V50 workshop

2023-01-02T00:31:16Z

Halavus: /* Building keyboard shortcuts don't work for workshops in subcategories (or isn't documented) */

== Toggle-able Pictures for workshops ==

I'm working on updating this template in order to show both the new graphics for workshops, as well as an option to see the original ASCII. If anyone has any ideas on how to best do that, please let me know, or feel free to take the initiative. —[[User:Velskadi|Velskadi]] ([[User talk:Velskadi|talk]]) 18:00, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I hope Letshor can get a tab extension to work, but in the mean time you can try something like this:
{|
|- valign=top
|
;Minimal change option
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0;"
|rowspan=2|[[File:Carpenter's workshop.png|150px]]
|{{Template:Floor Plan Carpenter's workshop}}
|-
|{{Template:Picture Carpenter's workshop}}
|}
|
;"Tab" option without tabs
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0;"
|Change view
<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">[[File:Carpenter's workshop.png]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">{{Template:Picture Carpenter's workshop}}{{Template:Floor Plan Carpenter's workshop}}</div>
|}
|}
Obviously this is rough draft, I didn't tried to make it look pretty with the right size and arrangement --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:30, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

:Awesome! I will play with these and see what I can get to work. I think the one on the right would be best, if only to keep the infocell from blowing up horizontally.
—[[User:Velskadi|Velskadi]] ([[User talk:Velskadi|talk]]) 18:32, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::My advice is to ignore the infocell, just make it work. Once it works and everyone is happy we can make the code pretty and easy to use. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:34, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Good to know. I'm also realizing that we may need to create new templates for each of the Building Sub-menus (Clothing and Leather, Farming, Furnaces). If there is a clever way of handling these without creating a bunch of templates I'd love to know. I don't want to make a mess of things. —[[User:Velskadi|Velskadi]] ([[User talk:Velskadi|talk]]) 18:38, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
:::: I am not sure what exactly you are referring to.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 19:38, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

This is pretty cool! I had no idea MediaWiki had built-in toggle buttons like that. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:03, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

== Name ==

I would encourage renaming this to {{tl|v50 workshop}}. I'd rather avoid inventing year-based names again after what happened with "DF2014". —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:02, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
: Sounds good! Will I need to delete this page? If so, is that done by just removing the text from it? —[[User:Velskadi|Velskadi]] ([[User talk:Velskadi|talk]]) 18:00, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::What I had in mind was moving the page, to keep its edit history, rather than copying it. I just performed the move (since the "v50" page existed, it required admin access to overwrite, but ordinarily you can move pages without admin access). I left a redirect behind, which should allow existing pages to continue to use the "DF2022" name, but if they are updated to use "v50", you can tag [[:template:DF2022 workshop]] with {{tl|delete}} and I can clean it up. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:42, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

== Building keyboard shortcuts don't work for workshops in subcategories (or isn't documented) ==

I tried with key1=xx|key2=yy but without luck. Can't add the fourth shortcut in {{k|b}}-{{k|o}}-{{k|f}}-{{k|b}} for the [[Butcher's shop]], for example. --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 23:54, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
: Should work now. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 00:12, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
:: Indeed, thank you. --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 00:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Butcher's shop

2023-01-02T00:28:25Z

Halavus: Corrected shortcut

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{V50 workshop
|name=Butcher's shop
|key=f|key2=b
|job=*[[Butcher|Butchery]]
|construction=
* [[Building material]] (non-[[economic]])
|construction_job=
1 of
*[[Butchery]]
*[[Small animal dissection]]
*[[Trapping]]
|use=
* [[Tame animals]]
* Corpses of untamed non-sentient animals
|production=
* [[Skin]]
* [[Fat]]
* [[Meat]]
* [[Bone]]
* [[Prepared organs]]
* [[Skull]]
* [[Scale]]
* [[Hooves]]
* [[Ivory]]
* [[Tooth]]
* [[Hair]]
* [[Wool]]
}}{{av}}

The '''butcher's shop''' is used to [[Butcher#Slaughtering|slaughter]] [[Tame animals|tame animals]], or to [[butcher]] the corpses or skeletons of slain wild animals. A tame animal can be designated for slaughter in the {{k|u}} [[Unit_list|Creatures]] menu under the Pets/Livestock tab.

Slaughtering is instantaneous once the animal has been led to the butcher's shop. [[Pet]]s cannot be slaughtered.

Wild animal corpses, body parts or skeletons can be [[Butcher#Butchering|butchered]] as long as they are sufficiently close to the butcher's shop, and sufficiently large to yield results. Butchering is ''not'' instanteous.

== Industry ==
A butchered animal results into various items with different uses:

{| {{prettytable}}
!Item
!Uses
|-
|[[Meat]] and [[Prepared organs]]
|Eaten raw or [[kitchen|cooked]]
|-
|[[Fat]]
|[[kitchen|Cooked]] to [[tallow]]
|-
|[[Skull]]s
|Crafting skull [[totem]]s
|-
|[[Bone]]s
|Crafting bone [[armor]], bone [[bolt]]s, bone [[crafts]], bone [[decoration]]s, and [[strange mood]]s
|-
|[[Hoof|Hooves]], [[Horn]]s, [[Tooth|Teeth]]
|[[crafts]] and [[decoration]]s
|-
|[[Shell]]s
|Crafting shell [[armor]], shell [[crafts]], shell [[decoration]]s, and [[strange mood]]s
|-
|[[Skin]]
|Tanned into [[Leather]]
|-
|[[Wool]]
|Spun into [[Yarn]]
|-
|[[Hair]]
|Spun into [[thread]], but not woven into [[cloth]]
|-
|[[Cartilage]]
|Currently no uses.
|-
|[[Nervous tissue]]
|Currently no uses.
|-
|[[Feather]], [[Scale]], [[Chitin]], and [[Nail]]
|Currently no uses.
|}

==Tasks==

*'''Butcher an animal'''
Renders a dead animal into its component parts of [[meat]], [[fat]], [[skin]], [[bone]]s, and [[skull]]s. Usually used on animals that your [[hunter]] brings back, or tame animals you chose for slaughter. The animal must be in a stockpile (anywhere) or lying on the ground within 20 tiles of the edge of the butcher's shop ''in the same z-level'' (i.e. a 43x43x1 box centered on the workshop).

*'''Catch live land animal'''
Requires an [[animal trap]] and [[trapping]].
The trapper will take the trap and chase vermin until it catches one.
This task is also available in the [[Vermin Catcher's Shop]].

*'''Extract from land animal'''
Requires a caged [[fire snake]], [[cave spider]], or [[phantom spider]] and [[Animal dissector|animal dissection]]. Contrary to the name of the task, the vermin must be alive (though it will be dead once the task is done).
Produces [[liquid fire]] and [[venom]], respectively.

==Common Uses==
*Produce meat for food.
*Produce skin for leather.
*Produce bones for bolts or bone crafts.

==Helpful Strategies==

=== Hauling and stockpile considerations ===

One thing to beware of is that butchered creatures will practically explode into piles of meat, bones, fat, organs and more; this can quickly clutter up a butchers shop or risk rotting the entire pile if not enough haulers and a suitable stockpile are available. Refuse also can not be stored in containers, so every item will use up one stockpile tile. For any jobs, such as cooking meat, rendering fat, and carving bones, the entire stack will become tasked and unavailable to other workshops.

The initial corpse or body part must be in a stockpile close enough to the butcher's shop to automatically trigger the '''Butcher a dead animal''' job. Similarly, there is a maximum distance for the [[Main:Tanner's shop|Tanner's shop]] to notice a skin and automatically trigger a '''Tan a skin''' job.

=== Clutter Reduction and Rotting Prevention ===

A good way to cut down on clutter and to prevent your butchered animals from rotting is to build a [[Quantum stockpile]] right by your butcher shops and then place a stockpile at the bottom. This way as meat is produced you can order it dumped into the stockpile so it is stored easily and will not rot.
To prevent rotten meat from producing [[miasma]] channel out a shaft above your butcher shops and build a wall around it on the surface. This way if meat rots it will not produce miasma.

==Notes==
*A butcher's shop is operated by any dwarf with the 'butchery' [[labor]].
*Corpses left to rot will become skeletons. Only those of wild animals (typically killed from hunting or traps) can be processed at the butcher's shop. Products will be bone, skull, hoof, horn and the like (no meat, fat, prepared organs or skin).
*Partial corpses as well as mutilated corpses do not provide the "full set"; the number of bones may be lower, organs may be missing.
*You can't butcher vermin fish, that is done at the [[Main:Fishery|Fishery]]. But you can butcher underwater creatures. For instance, you can butcher 'Carp corpse', but you can't butcher 'Oyster'.
*Tame animals that die by any reason, be it starvation, old age or violence, are unbutcherable. {{bug|1275}}

[[File:Bartolomeo Passerotti - The Butcher's Shop - WGA17071.jpg|thumb|340px|center|Bartolomeo Passerotti - The Butcher's Shop]]

==See Also==
*[[Butcher]]
*[[Creature]] pages for butchering results.
*[[Meat industry]]
*[[Stockpile]]

{{Workshops}}

Template:V50 workshop

2023-01-02T00:26:19Z

Halavus:

<includeonly>{{infostart|{{{name|{{PAGENAME}}}}}}}
{{infocell|{{Tooltip|Shortcut|Keyboard shortcut}}: {{k-|b|o|{{{key|{{{key1|???}}}}}}|{{{key2|}}}}}|style=text-align:center}}
{{infocell|}}
<div style="display:flex; flex-wrap: wrap; width:100%; background-color:#eaecf0;"><div style="margin: auto;">{{#ifexist:File:{{{image|{{{name|}}}}}}.png|[[File:{{{image|{{{name|}}}}}}.png]]|[[File:Icons8 flat add image.svg|80px|link=File:{{{image|{{{name|}}}}}}.png]]}}</div><div style="margin: auto; font-size:150%;">{{Picture {{#ifexist:Template:Picture {{NAMESPACE}} {{{name}}}|{{NAMESPACE}} {{{name}}}|{{#ifexist:Template:Picture {{{name}}}|{{{name}}}|Blank}}}}}}</div>
</div>
{{#if:{{{job|}}}|{{infoheader|Job Requirement}}
{{infocell|{{{job|}}}}}}}
{{infoheader|Construction}}
{{#ifeq:{{{onecol|no}}}|no|
{{!}}- 
! style{{=}}"text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" {{!}} Materials
! style{{=}}"text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%" {{!}} Jobs
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{{!}} style{{=}}"padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top" {{!}}
| 
! style{{=}}"text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" {{!}} Materials
{{!}}-
{{!}} style{{=}}"padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" {{!}}
{{{construction}}}
{{!}}-
! style{{=}}"text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%" {{!}} Jobs
{{!}}-
{{!}} style{{=}}"padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top" {{!}}
}}
{{{construction_job}}}
{{infoheader|Materials Used}}
{{infocell|{{{use}}}}}
{{infoheader|Goods Created}}
{{infocell|{{{production}}}}}
{{#if:{{{power|}}}|{{infoheader|Power}}
{{infocell|{{{power|}}}}}}}
{{infoend}}{{Category|Workshops}}{{interwiki|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}</includeonly><noinclude>

V50 workshop template, based on {{tl|workshop}}

== Usage ==
This automatically includes the page in the "Workshops" category.

The image tries load <code>File:{{{name}}}.png</code> if the image is already in use here on commons (as it is likely is) use <code>|image=another-name</code>. Note: [[screenshot]]s should be at the "native" resolution.

<nowiki>
{{V50 workshop|name=Carpenter's workshop|key=c|job=[[Carpentry]]
|construction=
1 of
* [[Block]]
* [[Stone]]
* [[Wood]]
|construction_job=
* [[Carpentry]]
|use=
* [[Wood]]
|production=
* [[Animal trap]]
* [[Armor stand]]
* [[Barrel]]
* [[Bin]]
* [[Bucket]]
* [[Buckler]]
* [[Bed]]
* [[Cabinet]]
* [[Chair]]
* [[Chest]]
* [[Door]]
* [[Floodgate]]
* [[Shield]]
* [[Table]]
* [[Weapon rack]]
}}
</nowiki>
[[Category:Building templates]]
</noinclude>

Jeweler's workshop

2023-01-02T00:22:33Z

Halavus: V50 template name

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{V50 workshop|name=Jeweler's workshop|key=j|job=Gem cutting, Gem setting
|construction=
* [[Building material]] (non-[[economic]])
|construction_job=
1 of
* [[Gem cutting]]
* [[Gem setting]]
|use=
* Rough [[gem]]s
* Cut [[gem]]s
|production=
* Cut [[gem]]s
* Gem [[craft]]s
* Encrusted objects
}}{{av}}

A '''Jeweler's workshop''' is a [[workshop]] for a [[jeweler]]. A jeweler uses this workshop to make items more valuable.

==Menu==
'''Jeweler's Workshop'''
* [[gem cutter|Cut]] Gems
* Cut raw glass into gems
* Encrust ammo with cut gems
* Encrust ammo with cut glass
* Encrust ammo with polished stones
* Encrust finished goods with cut gems
* Encrust finished goods with cut glass
* Encrust finished goods with polished stones
* Encrust furniture with cut gems
* Encrust furniture with cut glass
* Encrust furniture with polished stones
* Polish stones

==Common Uses==
*[[gem cutter|Cut]] rough [[gem]]s into something usable.
*[[Decoration|Decorate]] objects with gems to make them more valuable.
*Make ordinary [[bed]]s, [[cabinet]]s, [[table]]s, etc. more aesthetic for better [[Room#Quality|quality]] [[room]]s.

==Notes==
*Rough gems are always more valuable when cut; however some dwarves will demand rough gems during a [[strange mood]], so it is best not to cut all your gems.
* Rough [[rock crystal]]s are used in glassmaking, but not cut rock crystals, so it is best not to cut these.
*When adding a task to cut/encrust gems, the tasks are generally ordered by gem value, from least valuable to most valuable (in reality, they appear in the order in which they are defined in the raw file "inorganic_stone_gem.txt", which is roughly grouped by rarity).
*It's a good idea to let your [[gem setter]] train with low-value gems, cut stone cabochons, or [[glass]] (which can be manufactured) and only encrust with high-value gems after reaching legendary status, as there's a much better chance they will produce a [[Item quality|masterpiece]] which is 12 times as valuable.
** Be careful when setting up many encrust jobs or putting one on repeat -- this can result in all of the work being done to a single item. This happens because if the gem setter enters the shop and finds a correct item already set up (IE: a hauler didn't remove it after the last job completed) he will simply encrust that item rather than waiting for a different one to be hauled in. (However, this behavior can be beneficial if you wish to, for instance, encrust a dining room statue with every gem in your fortress.)
*Cut gems do not have quality, so it is generally unnecessary to train a dwarf in gem cutting. The value of gem crafts and large gems do have quality levels, but are trade goods which are not used in gem setting.
*You may also cut normal stones in the jeweler's workshop. These stones will always come out as cabochons, while other gems will come out as cut gems. The difference being that a cabochon is just a cut and polished stone, whereas a gem is a gem. Some rough gems are also always cut as cabochons, this is dependent on the opacity or transparency of the stone.{{verify}}
*While you can increase the value of crafts by cutting valuable stones such as obsidian or various ores (platinum, silver, or gold) into cabochons and then encrusting your crafts with these stones, it is almost always better to smelt the ore and [[stud]] the crafts instead (or just produce more metal crafts).
*The ability to cut all stones makes training [[gem setter]]s much easier, while also providing a convenient way to dispose of excess stone. This works even better with [[flux]] stones and [[obsidian]], since they are 2-3 times as valuable as normal stone.
*It's technically possible to cut boulders made of any material into gems. During regular gameplay, this means [[stone]], [[clay]] and [[ice]].

==See Also==
*[[Decoration]]

{{Workshops}}

Craftsdwarf's workshop

2023-01-02T00:21:23Z

Halavus: V50 cleanup

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{V50 workshop|name=Craftsdwarf's workshop|key=r|job=Craftsworking
|construction=
* [[Building material]] (non-[[economic]])
|construction_job=
1 of
* [[Bone carving]]
* [[Stonecrafting]]
* [[Woodcrafting]]
|use=
* [[Stone]]
* [[Wood]]
* [[Bone]]
* [[Shell]]
* [[Ivory]]
* [[Tooth]]
* [[Horn]]
* [[Pearl]]
* [[Cloth]]
* [[Thread]]{{version|0.42.01}}
* [[Wax]]
* [[Leather]]
* [[Skull]]
|production=

* Rock [[Craft]]s, [[Mug]]s, [[Instrument]]s, [[Toy]]s, [[Jug]]s, [[Large pot|Large Pots]], [[Hive]]s, and [[Nest box|Nest Boxes]]
* Wood, Plant Fiber Cloth, Silk, Shell, Ivory, Tooth, Horn, Pearl, Bone and, Leather [[Craft]]s
* Rock [[Short sword|Short Sword]]s
* Wooden and Bone [[Bolt]]s
* Bone, Shell, Ivory, Tooth, Horn, and Pearl [[Decoration]]s
* [[Totem]]s
* Bone [[Legging]]s, [[Greave]]s, [[Gauntlet]]s, and [[Helm]]s
* Shell [[Legging]]s, [[Gauntlet]]s, and [[Helm]]s
* [[Adamantine]] Strands
* [[Scroll]]{{version|0.42.01}}, [[Quire]]{{version|0.42.01}}, and [[Book]]{{version|0.42.01}}
* Wood and Stone [[Scroll rollers]]{{version|0.42.01}} and [[Book binding]]{{version|0.42.01}}
* [[Instrument]]s and instrument pieces
}}{{av}}

The '''Craftsdwarf's workshop''' is used to make [[craft]]s of many different kinds and perform a few specialized jobs. It can be built from any construction material by a dwarf with the [[Bone carver|Bone Carving]], [[Stonecrafting]], or [[Woodcrafting]] [[labor]]s enabled.

The craftsdwarf's workshop is the cornerstone of [[trading|trade]] in ''Dwarf Fortress''. All crafts can be traded for [[food]], [[alcohol]], [[weapon]]s, and other goods. Many crafts can also be acquired by dwarves as personal items, displayed on [[pedestal]]s, or used in activities like drinking, music, and play. Various goods, [[furniture]] and [[bolt]]s can also be [[decoration|decorated]] with [[bone]], [[pearl]], [[horn]], [[ivory]], or [[shell]]s to increase their [[value]].

Other crafts are more directly useful to your fortress: [[tool]]s such as [[large pot]]s, [[jug]]s, and [[nest box]]es can be created at this workshop. Large pots, particularly, can serve as a plentiful replacement for [[wood]]en [[barrel]]s in most circumstances.

The craftsdwarf's workshop can also be used to create [[armor]] from bone or shell, make [[bolt]]s from [[wood]] or bone, assemble rock [[short sword]]s from [[obsidian]] and [[wood]], and extract strands of [[adamantine]] for refinement.

==Ammo==
Trees and the bones of butchered or slaughtered animals provide a plentiful and renewable source of material for ammunition. When making [[wood]] bolts, a single log produces a stack of 25 bolts. When making [[bone]] bolts, an entire stack of bones is brought to the workshop, and then ''one'' bone from that stack becomes a stack of 5 bolts.

==Armor==
Bone or shell armor, while vastly inferior to [[metal]] [[armor]], is still better than nothing. Only 4 armor parts may be made from bone: leggings, greaves, gauntlets and helms. Only 3 parts may be made from shell: leggings, gauntlets and helms.

Making bone leggings or greaves requires 3 stack of bones, but it only consumes 1 bone from each stack. (You cannot use a stack of 3 bones instead. There must be 3 separate stacks.) Making bone gauntlets consumes 1 bone from 1 stack, and produces both a right and a left gauntlet. Making a bone helm consumes 1 bone from 1 stack.

==Notes==
*Most crafting jobs require the respective labors, however; [[shell]], [[ivory]], tooth, [[horn]], and [[pearl]] are all worked by [[Bone carver|Bone Carvers]].
*[[Metal]] crafts are made at a [[metalsmith's forge]]. You can, however, make crafts out of metal '''ores''' by enabling the appropriate nugget use in the {{K|z}} [[Stone]] menu. This will result in fewer crafts, but [[quality]] modifiers may offset the difference in value.
*Other [[cloth]] and [[leather]] items are made at a [[clothier's shop]] or [[leather works]], respectively.
*[[strange mood|Moody]] dwarves without a moodable skill will claim a craftsdwarf's workshop and produce a legendary stone, wood, or bone craft.
*Multi-part [[Instrument]]s can be assembled here (assumed that single-part bone/thread/stone instruments can as well) {{version|0.42.01}}
* Instrument pieces can be made here from bone, thread, and stone.{{version|0.42.01}}

{{Workshops}}

Carpenter's workshop

2023-01-02T00:20:12Z

Halavus: /* Tasks */ formatting

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{V50 workshop
|name=Carpenter's workshop
|key=c
|job=*[[Carpentry]]
*[[Trapping]] (See [[Carpenter's_workshop#Notes|Notes]])
|construction=
* [[Building material]] (non-[[economic]])
|construction_job=
*[[Carpentry]]
*[[Trapping]]
|use=
*[[Wood]]
|production=
*[[Animal trap]]s
*[[Armor stand]]s
*[[Barrel]]s
*[[Bed]]s
*[[Bin]]s
*[[Block]]s
*[[Bookcase]]s{{version|0.42.01}}
*[[Bucket]]s
*[[Buckler]]s
*[[Cabinet]]s
*[[Cage]]s
*[[Casket]]s
*[[Chest]]s
*[[Chair]]s
*[[Crutch]]es
*[[Door]]s
*[[Display case]]s{{version|0.44.01}}
*[[Enormous corkscrew]]s
*[[Floodgate]]s
*[[Grate]]s
*[[Hatch cover]]s
*[[Menacing spike]]s
*[[Pedestal]]s{{version|0.44.01}}
*[[Pipe section]]s
*[[Shield]]s
*[[Spiked ball]]s
*[[Splint]]s
*[[Stepladder]]s
*[[Table]]s
*[[Training weapon|Training Swords]]
*[[Training weapon|Training Spears]]
*[[Training weapon|Training Axes]]
*[[Weapon rack]]s
}}{{av}}

A '''carpenter's workshop''' is a [[Workshop#Tier_1_Workshops|Tier 1]] [[workshop]] used by a [[carpenter]] to make most types of [[furniture]], with the exception of [[statue]]s. The workshop can also make wooden [[block]]s or items like [[bucket]]s, [[crutch]]es, [[shield]]s, and [[training weapon]]s. [[Bed]]s can only be made at a carpenter's workshop.

The carpenter's workshop can be built from any building material, and must be built by a [[dwarf]] with the Carpentry [[labor]] enabled.

==Tasks==
*Make [[bed]]
*Make [[display case]]{{version|0.44.01}}
*Make enormous [[wood]]en [[Trap component|corkscrew]]
*Make menacing [[wood]]en [[Trap component|spike]]
*Make spiked [[wood]]en [[Trap component|ball]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[altar]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[animal trap]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[armor stand]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[barrel]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[bin]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[block]]s
*Make [[wood]]en [[bookcase]]{{version|0.42.01}}
*Make [[wood]]en [[bucket]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[buckler]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[cabinet]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[cage]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[casket]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[chair]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[chest]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[crutch]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[door]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[floodgate]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[grate]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[hatch cover]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[minecart]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[pedestal]]{{version|0.44.01}}
*Make [[wood]]en [[pipe section]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[shield]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[splint]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[stepladder]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[table]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[Training weapon|training axe]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[Training weapon|training spear]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[Training weapon|training sword]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[Weapon rack]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[wheelbarrow]]

==Common Uses==
*Make wooden [[barrel]]s for storage of [[alcohol]], [[plant]]s, and [[seed]]s.
*<s>Make wooden [[Training weapon|training axes]] for [[wood cutter]]s.</s> This bug was [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html#2016-05-22 fixed in 0.43.03].
*Make wooden [[bed]]s, [[chair]]s, [[table]]s, and [[door]]s for [[room]]s. Beds in particular can only be made from wood at a carpenter's workshop.
*Make wooden [[bin]]s for storage.

[[File:carpenter_workshop_preview.png|thumb|300px|center|An [[elf|elf's]] least favorite place.]]
==See also==
:*[[Training weapon]]s
:*[[Bedroom design]]

{{Workshops}}

Carpenter's workshop

2023-01-02T00:17:08Z

Halavus: V50 cleanup

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{V50 workshop
|name=Carpenter's workshop
|key=c
|job=*[[Carpentry]]
*[[Trapping]] (See [[Carpenter's_workshop#Notes|Notes]])
|construction=
* [[Building material]] (non-[[economic]])
|construction_job=
*[[Carpentry]]
*[[Trapping]]
|use=
*[[Wood]]
|production=
*[[Animal trap]]s
*[[Armor stand]]s
*[[Barrel]]s
*[[Bed]]s
*[[Bin]]s
*[[Block]]s
*[[Bookcase]]s{{version|0.42.01}}
*[[Bucket]]s
*[[Buckler]]s
*[[Cabinet]]s
*[[Cage]]s
*[[Casket]]s
*[[Chest]]s
*[[Chair]]s
*[[Crutch]]es
*[[Door]]s
*[[Display case]]s{{version|0.44.01}}
*[[Enormous corkscrew]]s
*[[Floodgate]]s
*[[Grate]]s
*[[Hatch cover]]s
*[[Menacing spike]]s
*[[Pedestal]]s{{version|0.44.01}}
*[[Pipe section]]s
*[[Shield]]s
*[[Spiked ball]]s
*[[Splint]]s
*[[Stepladder]]s
*[[Table]]s
*[[Training weapon|Training Swords]]
*[[Training weapon|Training Spears]]
*[[Training weapon|Training Axes]]
*[[Weapon rack]]s
}}{{av}}

A '''carpenter's workshop''' is a [[Workshop#Tier_1_Workshops|Tier 1]] [[workshop]] used by a [[carpenter]] to make most types of [[furniture]], with the exception of [[statue]]s. The workshop can also make wooden [[block]]s or items like [[bucket]]s, [[crutch]]es, [[shield]]s, and [[training weapon]]s. [[Bed]]s can only be made at a carpenter's workshop.

The carpenter's workshop can be built from any building material, and must be built by a [[dwarf]] with the Carpentry [[labor]] enabled.

==Tasks==
*Make [[bed]]
*Make [[display case]]{{version|0.44.01}}
*Make enormous [[wood]]en [[Trap component|corkscrew]]
*Make menacing [[wood]]en [[Trap component|spike]]
*Make spiked [[wood]]en [[Trap component|ball]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[Altar]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[animal trap]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[armor stand]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[barrel]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[Bin]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[block]]s
*Make [[wood]]en [[bookcase]]{{version|0.42.01}}
*Make [[wood]]en [[bucket]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[buckler]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[cabinet]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[cage]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[casket]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[chair]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[chest]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[crutch]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[door]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[floodgate]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[grate]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[hatch cover]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[minecart]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[pedestal]]{{version|0.44.01}}
*Make [[wood]]en [[pipe section]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[shield]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[splint]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[stepladder]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[table]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[Training weapon|training axe]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[Training weapon|training spear]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[Training weapon|training sword]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[Weapon rack]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[wheelbarrow]]

==Common Uses==
*Make wooden [[barrel]]s for storage of [[alcohol]], [[plant]]s, and [[seed]]s.
*<s>Make wooden [[Training weapon|training axes]] for [[wood cutter]]s.</s> This bug was [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html#2016-05-22 fixed in 0.43.03].
*Make wooden [[bed]]s, [[chair]]s, [[table]]s, and [[door]]s for [[room]]s. Beds in particular can only be made from wood at a carpenter's workshop.
*Make wooden [[bin]]s for storage.

[[File:carpenter_workshop_preview.png|thumb|300px|center|An [[elf|elf's]] least favorite place.]]
==See also==
:*[[Training weapon]]s
:*[[Bedroom design]]

{{Workshops}}

Bowyer's workshop

2023-01-02T00:16:31Z

Halavus: V50 cleanup

{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{V50 workshop
|name=Bowyer's workshop
|key=b
|job=*[[Crossbow-making]]
|construction=
* [[Building material]] (non-[[economic]])
|construction_job=
*[[Crossbow-making]]
|use=
*[[Bone]]
*[[Wood]]
|production=
*[[Crossbow]]s
}}{{av}}

The '''bowyer's workshop''' is a [[Workshop#Tier_1_Workshops|Tier 1]] [[workshop]] used to make [[wood]]en or [[bone]] [[crossbow]]s. It requires any [[stone]], [[wood]] or [[block]] to build, and must be built by a [[dwarf]] with the [[bowyer|crossbow making]] [[labor]] enabled.

==Taks==
*Make [[bone]] [[crossbow]]
*Make [[wood]]en [[crossbow]]

==Common Uses==
*Outfit an [[archer]], [[military]] [[squad]], or [[hunter]].

==Notes==

*Use of a [[crossbow]] also requires [[bolt]]s, which are made in a [[craftsdwarf's workshop]] or [[forge]], and a [[quiver]], made in a [[leather works]].

==See also==

* [[Weapon]]
* [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]] for making bolts

{{Workshops}}

Ashery

2023-01-02T00:15:40Z

Halavus: V50 cleanup

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{V50 workshop
|name=Ashery
|key=y
|job=
* [[Potash maker|Potash Making]]
* [[Lye maker|Lye Making]]
|construction=
* [[Block]]
* [[Barrel]] (empty)
* [[Bucket]] (lye/milk-free)
|construction_job=
* [[Potash maker|Potash Making]]
* [[Lye maker|Lye Making]]
|use=
* [[Ash]]
* [[Lye]]
* [[Quicklime]]
* Empty [[Bucket]]
|production=
* [[Lye]]
* [[Potash]]
* [[Milk of lime]]
}}{{av}}

The '''ashery''' is a [[workshop]] used to make [[lye]], [[potash]], and [[milk of lime]]. To build an ashery, you need a [[block]], a [[barrel]], a [[bucket]], and someone with the [[potash maker|potash making]] or [[Lye maker|lye making]] [[labor]] enabled.

Lye is one of the main ingredients for [[soap]], which is used for [[cleaning]] [[wound]]s and the fortress, while milk of lime is used to make [[parchment]] [[sheet]]s out of raw animal [[skin]]s for the [[paper industry]]. [[Potash]] is used for fertilizing [[farm plot|farms]], allowing an increased output of [[plants]], as well as for the creation of [[pearlash]], necessary for [[clear glass]] and [[crystal glass]].

==Tasks==

*Make lye
*Make potash from lye
*Make potash from ash
*Make milk of lime

==See also==

*[[Soap]]
*[[Farming]]

{{Workshops}}

Template:V50 workshop

2023-01-02T00:07:07Z

Halavus: /* Usage */ corrected template's name

<includeonly>{{infostart|{{{name|{{PAGENAME}}}}}}}
{{infocell|{{key|b}}-{{key|o}}-{{key|{{{key}}}}}|style=text-align:center}}
{{infocell|}}
<div style="display:flex; flex-wrap: wrap; width:100%; background-color:#eaecf0;"><div style="margin: auto;">{{#ifexist:File:{{{image|{{{name|}}}}}}.png|[[File:{{{image|{{{name|}}}}}}.png]]|[[File:Icons8 flat add image.svg|80px|link=File:{{{image|{{{name|}}}}}}.png]]}}</div><div style="margin: auto; font-size:150%;">{{Picture {{#ifexist:Template:Picture {{NAMESPACE}} {{{name}}}|{{NAMESPACE}} {{{name}}}|{{#ifexist:Template:Picture {{{name}}}|{{{name}}}|Blank}}}}}}</div>
</div>
{{#if:{{{job|}}}|{{infoheader|Job Requirement}}
{{infocell|{{{job|}}}}}}}
{{infoheader|Construction}}
{{#ifeq:{{{onecol|no}}}|no|
{{!}}- 
! style{{=}}"text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" {{!}} Materials
! style{{=}}"text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%" {{!}} Jobs
{{!}}-
{{!}} style{{=}}"padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" {{!}}
{{{construction}}}
{{!}} style{{=}}"padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top" {{!}}
| 
! style{{=}}"text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" {{!}} Materials
{{!}}-
{{!}} style{{=}}"padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top; border-right: 1px solid #aaa" {{!}}
{{{construction}}}
{{!}}-
! style{{=}}"text-align: left; padding: 0.2em 0.25em 0; width: 50%" {{!}} Jobs
{{!}}-
{{!}} style{{=}}"padding: 0.1em 0.25em 0.25em; width: 50%; vertical-align: top" {{!}}
}}
{{{construction_job}}}
{{infoheader|Materials Used}}
{{infocell|{{{use}}}}}
{{infoheader|Goods Created}}
{{infocell|{{{production}}}}}
{{#if:{{{power|}}}|{{infoheader|Power}}
{{infocell|{{{power|}}}}}}}
{{infoend}}{{Category|Workshops}}{{interwiki|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}</includeonly><noinclude>

DF2022 workshop template, based on {{tl|workshop}}

== Usage ==
This automatically includes the page in the "Workshops" category.

The image tries load <code>File:{{{name}}}.png</code> if the image is already in use here on commons (as it is likely is) use <code>|image=another-name</code>. Note: [[screenshot]]s should be at the "native" resolution.

<nowiki>
{{V50 workshop|name=Carpenter's workshop|key=c|job=[[Carpentry]]
|construction=
1 of
* [[Block]]
* [[Stone]]
* [[Wood]]
|construction_job=
* [[Carpentry]]
|use=
* [[Wood]]
|production=
* [[Animal trap]]
* [[Armor stand]]
* [[Barrel]]
* [[Bin]]
* [[Bucket]]
* [[Buckler]]
* [[Bed]]
* [[Cabinet]]
* [[Chair]]
* [[Chest]]
* [[Door]]
* [[Floodgate]]
* [[Shield]]
* [[Table]]
* [[Weapon rack]]
}}
</nowiki>
[[Category:Building templates]]
</noinclude>

Template talk:V50 workshop

2023-01-02T00:04:31Z

Halavus: /* Building keyboard shortcuts don't work for workshop in subcategories (or isn't documented) */

== Toggle-able Pictures for workshops ==

I'm working on updating this template in order to show both the new graphics for workshops, as well as an option to see the original ASCII. If anyone has any ideas on how to best do that, please let me know, or feel free to take the initiative. —[[User:Velskadi|Velskadi]] ([[User talk:Velskadi|talk]]) 18:00, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I hope Letshor can get a tab extension to work, but in the mean time you can try something like this:
{|
|- valign=top
|
;Minimal change option
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0;"
|rowspan=2|[[File:Carpenter's workshop.png|150px]]
|{{Template:Floor Plan Carpenter's workshop}}
|-
|{{Template:Picture Carpenter's workshop}}
|}
|
;"Tab" option without tabs
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0;"
|Change view
<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">[[File:Carpenter's workshop.png]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">{{Template:Picture Carpenter's workshop}}{{Template:Floor Plan Carpenter's workshop}}</div>
|}
|}
Obviously this is rough draft, I didn't tried to make it look pretty with the right size and arrangement --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:30, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

:Awesome! I will play with these and see what I can get to work. I think the one on the right would be best, if only to keep the infocell from blowing up horizontally.
—[[User:Velskadi|Velskadi]] ([[User talk:Velskadi|talk]]) 18:32, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::My advice is to ignore the infocell, just make it work. Once it works and everyone is happy we can make the code pretty and easy to use. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:34, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Good to know. I'm also realizing that we may need to create new templates for each of the Building Sub-menus (Clothing and Leather, Farming, Furnaces). If there is a clever way of handling these without creating a bunch of templates I'd love to know. I don't want to make a mess of things. —[[User:Velskadi|Velskadi]] ([[User talk:Velskadi|talk]]) 18:38, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
:::: I am not sure what exactly you are referring to.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 19:38, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

This is pretty cool! I had no idea MediaWiki had built-in toggle buttons like that. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:03, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

== Name ==

I would encourage renaming this to {{tl|v50 workshop}}. I'd rather avoid inventing year-based names again after what happened with "DF2014". —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:02, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
: Sounds good! Will I need to delete this page? If so, is that done by just removing the text from it? —[[User:Velskadi|Velskadi]] ([[User talk:Velskadi|talk]]) 18:00, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::What I had in mind was moving the page, to keep its edit history, rather than copying it. I just performed the move (since the "v50" page existed, it required admin access to overwrite, but ordinarily you can move pages without admin access). I left a redirect behind, which should allow existing pages to continue to use the "DF2022" name, but if they are updated to use "v50", you can tag [[:template:DF2022 workshop]] with {{tl|delete}} and I can clean it up. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:42, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

== Building keyboard shortcuts don't work for workshops in subcategories (or isn't documented) ==

I tried with key1=xx|key2=yy but without luck. Can't add the fourth shortcut in {{k|b}}-{{k|o}}-{{k|f}}-{{k|b}} for the [[Butcher's shop]], for example. --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 23:54, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Butcher's shop

2023-01-02T00:01:50Z

Halavus: Updated building template & added V50 image | Keyboard shortcuts to be fixed...

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{V50 workshop
|name=Butcher's shop
|key=f-b
|job=*[[Butcher|Butchery]]
|construction=
* [[Building material]] (non-[[economic]])
|construction_job=
1 of
*[[Butchery]]
*[[Small animal dissection]]
*[[Trapping]]
|use=
* [[Tame animals]]
* Corpses of untamed non-sentient animals
|production=
* [[Skin]]
* [[Fat]]
* [[Meat]]
* [[Bone]]
* [[Prepared organs]]
* [[Skull]]
* [[Scale]]
* [[Hooves]]
* [[Ivory]]
* [[Tooth]]
* [[Hair]]
* [[Wool]]
}}{{av}}

The '''butcher's shop''' is used to [[Butcher#Slaughtering|slaughter]] [[Tame animals|tame animals]], or to [[butcher]] the corpses or skeletons of slain wild animals. A tame animal can be designated for slaughter in the {{k|u}} [[Unit_list|Creatures]] menu under the Pets/Livestock tab.

Slaughtering is instantaneous once the animal has been led to the butcher's shop. [[Pet]]s cannot be slaughtered.

Wild animal corpses, body parts or skeletons can be [[Butcher#Butchering|butchered]] as long as they are sufficiently close to the butcher's shop, and sufficiently large to yield results. Butchering is ''not'' instanteous.

== Industry ==
A butchered animal results into various items with different uses:

{| {{prettytable}}
!Item
!Uses
|-
|[[Meat]] and [[Prepared organs]]
|Eaten raw or [[kitchen|cooked]]
|-
|[[Fat]]
|[[kitchen|Cooked]] to [[tallow]]
|-
|[[Skull]]s
|Crafting skull [[totem]]s
|-
|[[Bone]]s
|Crafting bone [[armor]], bone [[bolt]]s, bone [[crafts]], bone [[decoration]]s, and [[strange mood]]s
|-
|[[Hoof|Hooves]], [[Horn]]s, [[Tooth|Teeth]]
|[[crafts]] and [[decoration]]s
|-
|[[Shell]]s
|Crafting shell [[armor]], shell [[crafts]], shell [[decoration]]s, and [[strange mood]]s
|-
|[[Skin]]
|Tanned into [[Leather]]
|-
|[[Wool]]
|Spun into [[Yarn]]
|-
|[[Hair]]
|Spun into [[thread]], but not woven into [[cloth]]
|-
|[[Cartilage]]
|Currently no uses.
|-
|[[Nervous tissue]]
|Currently no uses.
|-
|[[Feather]], [[Scale]], [[Chitin]], and [[Nail]]
|Currently no uses.
|}

==Tasks==

*'''Butcher an animal'''
Renders a dead animal into its component parts of [[meat]], [[fat]], [[skin]], [[bone]]s, and [[skull]]s. Usually used on animals that your [[hunter]] brings back, or tame animals you chose for slaughter. The animal must be in a stockpile (anywhere) or lying on the ground within 20 tiles of the edge of the butcher's shop ''in the same z-level'' (i.e. a 43x43x1 box centered on the workshop).

*'''Catch live land animal'''
Requires an [[animal trap]] and [[trapping]].
The trapper will take the trap and chase vermin until it catches one.
This task is also available in the [[Vermin Catcher's Shop]].

*'''Extract from land animal'''
Requires a caged [[fire snake]], [[cave spider]], or [[phantom spider]] and [[Animal dissector|animal dissection]]. Contrary to the name of the task, the vermin must be alive (though it will be dead once the task is done).
Produces [[liquid fire]] and [[venom]], respectively.

==Common Uses==
*Produce meat for food.
*Produce skin for leather.
*Produce bones for bolts or bone crafts.

==Helpful Strategies==

=== Hauling and stockpile considerations ===

One thing to beware of is that butchered creatures will practically explode into piles of meat, bones, fat, organs and more; this can quickly clutter up a butchers shop or risk rotting the entire pile if not enough haulers and a suitable stockpile are available. Refuse also can not be stored in containers, so every item will use up one stockpile tile. For any jobs, such as cooking meat, rendering fat, and carving bones, the entire stack will become tasked and unavailable to other workshops.

The initial corpse or body part must be in a stockpile close enough to the butcher's shop to automatically trigger the '''Butcher a dead animal''' job. Similarly, there is a maximum distance for the [[Main:Tanner's shop|Tanner's shop]] to notice a skin and automatically trigger a '''Tan a skin''' job.

=== Clutter Reduction and Rotting Prevention ===

A good way to cut down on clutter and to prevent your butchered animals from rotting is to build a [[Quantum stockpile]] right by your butcher shops and then place a stockpile at the bottom. This way as meat is produced you can order it dumped into the stockpile so it is stored easily and will not rot.
To prevent rotten meat from producing [[miasma]] channel out a shaft above your butcher shops and build a wall around it on the surface. This way if meat rots it will not produce miasma.

==Notes==
*A butcher's shop is operated by any dwarf with the 'butchery' [[labor]].
*Corpses left to rot will become skeletons. Only those of wild animals (typically killed from hunting or traps) can be processed at the butcher's shop. Products will be bone, skull, hoof, horn and the like (no meat, fat, prepared organs or skin).
*Partial corpses as well as mutilated corpses do not provide the "full set"; the number of bones may be lower, organs may be missing.
*You can't butcher vermin fish, that is done at the [[Main:Fishery|Fishery]]. But you can butcher underwater creatures. For instance, you can butcher 'Carp corpse', but you can't butcher 'Oyster'.
*Tame animals that die by any reason, be it starvation, old age or violence, are unbutcherable. {{bug|1275}}

[[File:Bartolomeo Passerotti - The Butcher's Shop - WGA17071.jpg|thumb|340px|center|Bartolomeo Passerotti - The Butcher's Shop]]

==See Also==
*[[Butcher]]
*[[Creature]] pages for butchering results.
*[[Meat industry]]
*[[Stockpile]]

{{Workshops}}

File:Butcher's shop.png

2023-01-01T23:59:27Z

Halavus: v50 Butcher's Shop

== Summary ==
v50 Butcher's Shop
== Licensing ==
{{Non-free Dwarf Fortress Screenshot}}

Template talk:V50 workshop

2023-01-01T23:54:13Z

Halavus: /* Building keyboard shortcuts don't work for workshop in subcategories (or isn't documented) */ new section

== Toggle-able Pictures for workshops ==

I'm working on updating this template in order to show both the new graphics for workshops, as well as an option to see the original ASCII. If anyone has any ideas on how to best do that, please let me know, or feel free to take the initiative. —[[User:Velskadi|Velskadi]] ([[User talk:Velskadi|talk]]) 18:00, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I hope Letshor can get a tab extension to work, but in the mean time you can try something like this:
{|
|- valign=top
|
;Minimal change option
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0;"
|rowspan=2|[[File:Carpenter's workshop.png|150px]]
|{{Template:Floor Plan Carpenter's workshop}}
|-
|{{Template:Picture Carpenter's workshop}}
|}
|
;"Tab" option without tabs
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0;"
|Change view
<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">[[File:Carpenter's workshop.png]]</div>
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">{{Template:Picture Carpenter's workshop}}{{Template:Floor Plan Carpenter's workshop}}</div>
|}
|}
Obviously this is rough draft, I didn't tried to make it look pretty with the right size and arrangement --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:30, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

:Awesome! I will play with these and see what I can get to work. I think the one on the right would be best, if only to keep the infocell from blowing up horizontally.
—[[User:Velskadi|Velskadi]] ([[User talk:Velskadi|talk]]) 18:32, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::My advice is to ignore the infocell, just make it work. Once it works and everyone is happy we can make the code pretty and easy to use. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:34, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Good to know. I'm also realizing that we may need to create new templates for each of the Building Sub-menus (Clothing and Leather, Farming, Furnaces). If there is a clever way of handling these without creating a bunch of templates I'd love to know. I don't want to make a mess of things. —[[User:Velskadi|Velskadi]] ([[User talk:Velskadi|talk]]) 18:38, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
:::: I am not sure what exactly you are referring to.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 19:38, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

This is pretty cool! I had no idea MediaWiki had built-in toggle buttons like that. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:03, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

== Name ==

I would encourage renaming this to {{tl|v50 workshop}}. I'd rather avoid inventing year-based names again after what happened with "DF2014". —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:02, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
: Sounds good! Will I need to delete this page? If so, is that done by just removing the text from it? —[[User:Velskadi|Velskadi]] ([[User talk:Velskadi|talk]]) 18:00, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::What I had in mind was moving the page, to keep its edit history, rather than copying it. I just performed the move (since the "v50" page existed, it required admin access to overwrite, but ordinarily you can move pages without admin access). I left a redirect behind, which should allow existing pages to continue to use the "DF2022" name, but if they are updated to use "v50", you can tag [[:template:DF2022 workshop]] with {{tl|delete}} and I can clean it up. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:42, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

== Building keyboard shortcuts don't work for workshop in subcategories (or isn't documented) ==

I tried with key1=xx|key2=yy but without luck. Can't add {{k|b}}-{{k|o}}-{{k|f}}-{{k|b}} for the butcher shop for example. --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 23:54, 1 January 2023 (UTC)