http://dwarffortresswiki.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Samyotix&feedformat=atomDwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-28T21:15:12ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.35.11http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Window&diff=3109140d Talk:Window2008-12-12T12:34:31Z<p>Samyotix: deleted own dumb question</p>
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<div>Do windows block the flow of fluids? --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 20:16, 5 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:Yes --[[User:Lacero|Lacero]] 10:58, 18 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
do windows allow light in? to fight [[Cave adaptation]] --[[User:Corhen|Corhen]] 22:24 24 december 2008<br />
:Also yes. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:09, 28 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
:: No. The article says so since the 24th of July (see also [[light]]). --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 07:27, 30 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Do you get the materials back when you remove a window? Especially Gem windows? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 07:42, 4 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Thirdly yes. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:49, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Can dwarves "see" through the windows (i.e. see stealthly enemies on the other side)? [[User:Optimizt|Optimizt]] 20:02, 13 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Again yes. At least, they get scared of things they see on the other side. I've not tested whether they can spot stealthy enemies. --[[User:Lacero|Lacero]] 11:09, 6 July 2008 (EDT)</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Window&diff=3109040d Talk:Window2008-12-12T12:34:01Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
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<div>Do windows block the flow of fluids? --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 20:16, 5 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:Yes --[[User:Lacero|Lacero]] 10:58, 18 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
do windows allow light in? to fight [[Cave adaptation]] --[[User:Corhen|Corhen]] 22:24 24 december 2008<br />
:Also yes. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:09, 28 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
:: No. The article says so since the 24th of July (see also [[light]]). --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 07:27, 30 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Do you get the materials back when you remove a window? Especially Gem windows? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 07:42, 4 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Thirdly yes. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:49, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Can dwarves "see" through the windows (i.e. see stealthly enemies on the other side)? [[User:Optimizt|Optimizt]] 20:02, 13 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Again yes. At least, they get scared of things they see on the other side. I've not tested whether they can spot stealthy enemies. --[[User:Lacero|Lacero]] 11:09, 6 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Question:<br />
"... windows made at a glass furnace that haven't been constructed yet will still melt if they are put in magma."<br />
<br />
Windows that have not been constructed yet do not exist, so they cannot be placed in magma. That sentence seems to make no sense. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 07:34, 12 December 2008 (EST)</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Clothing_industry&diff=4562140d:Clothing industry2008-11-14T13:46:54Z<p>Samyotix: /* Dyeing */ Correction: Cloth made from dyed thread cannot be re-dyed. This was worded in a misleading way.</p>
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<div>This article is a quick guide to running a self-sufficient '''clothing industry'''.<br />
<br />
First grow and harvest the plants, then process the plants to thread, next weave the thread into cloth, and finally turn the cloth into clothes.<br />
<br />
==Plants==<br />
''Requires: A [[farm]], a [[farmer]], and the appropriate [[seeds]]''<br />
<br />
There are six [[crops]] that you can [[Farming|grow]] that are used in the clothing industry. Note that if you don't want to grow them you can [[Trading|trade]] for them or, if they are an above ground crop, you can [[herbalist|gather]] them.<br />
<br />
=====Subterraean=====<br />
*[[Pig tail]]s are used to make [[#Thread|thread]], and can be grown in Summer and Autumn.<br />
*[[Dimple cup]]s are used to make [[#Dyeing|dye]], and can be grown all year round.<br />
<br />
=====Above ground=====<br />
*[[Rope reed]] is used to make [[#Thread|thread]], and can be grown all year round.<br />
*[[Hide root]], [[Sliver barb]] and [[Blade weed]] can be used to make [[#Dyeing|dye]], and can be grown all year round.<br />
<br />
<br />
==Thread==<br />
''Requires: A [[farmer's workshop]], a [[thresher]], and the appropriate [[#plants|plant]]''<br />
<br />
Once you have harvested the plants you must process the pig tails and/or rope weed at the [[farmer's workshop]]. Alternatively you can [[trade]] for thread directly.<br />
<br />
In the farmer's workship there are several options for processing plants: either to [[bag]], [[barrel]], [[vial]], or normal. To create thread you want to select normal. The other options produce different products, such as [[#Dyeing|dye]] and [[flour]].<br />
<br />
<br />
==Cloth==<br />
''Requires: A [[loom]], a [[weaver]], and some [[#Thread|thread]]''<br />
<br />
By default any thread produced will be automatically woven at the loom. You may want to turn this off if you intend to [[#Dyeing|dye]] the thread.<br />
<br />
<br />
==Clothes==<br />
''Requires: A [[clothier's shop]], a [[clothier]], and some [[#Cloth|cloth]]''<br />
<br />
Once the cloth is ready you can sew it into [[clothes]], either for [[trading]] or for your own [[dwarves]] to wear.<br />
<br />
<br />
==Dyeing==<br />
Dyeing is very useful because it adds to the [[value]] of the finished clothes. You can dye either thread or cloth to increase its value. Cloth created from dyed thread cannot be dyed.<br />
=====Creating dye=====<br />
''Requires: A [[mill]] or [[quern]], a [[miller]], an empty [[bag]], and the appropriate [[#Plants|plant]]''<br />
<br />
Once you have harvested or bought the plants, you can mill them into dye.<br />
<br />
=====Using dye=====<br />
''Requires: A [[dyer's shop]], a [[dyer]], and some dye''<br />
<br />
Having the dye, you can dip the clothes or thread into it to increase its value.<br />
<br />
==Summary==<br />
=====Required worker / labor=====<br />
*[[Farmer]] / [[Field working]]<br />
*[[Thresher]] / [[Plant processor]]<br />
*[[Weaver]] / [[Weaving]]<br />
*[[Clothier]] / [[Clothes making]]<br />
*[[Miller]] / [[Milling]]<br />
*[[Dyer]] / [[Dyeing]]<br />
<br />
=====Required buildings=====<br />
*[[Farm]]<br />
*[[Farmer's workshop]]<br />
*[[Loom]]<br />
*[[Clothier's shop]]<br />
*Either a [[Mill]] which also requires<br />
**[[Millstone]]<br />
**[[Power]]<br />
*Or a [[quern]]<br />
**[[Quernstone]]<br />
*[[Dyer's shop]] which also requires<br />
**[[Barrel]]<br />
**[[Bucket]]<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
*[[Clothing]]<br />
*[[Farming]]<br />
<br />
{{Farming FAQ}}<br />
{{Workshops FAQ}}<br />
[[Category:Quick guide]]<br />
[[Category:Materials]]<br />
[[Category:Industry]]</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Trading&diff=3607540d Talk:Trading2008-11-13T14:19:41Z<p>Samyotix: /* Barge */</p>
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<div>== Consolidation of Trading, Trade Depot, Caravans, and Wagon ==<br />
<br />
This needs wikification with some amounts of rewriting. I will give it a go. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 06:51, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
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Yea thanks, this is my first try at a wiki-page. sorry if it was crappy... --[[User:CombatWombat|CombatWombat]] 06:42, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
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Nah, there's no such thing as a crappy wiki edit, when its got content in it. Just remember to be bold, otherwise there would be nothing here. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 07:29, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Well this thread's a little old, but I re-wrote and consolidated some more information on this page. There was also some discussion of this on [[Talk:Caravan#Merge_this_into_Trading]]. If you don't approve, please don't just revert it, I organized and cleaned up a lot of the scattered info, so at the very least it should be split from where it is now on the Trading page to where it should ultimately go. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 02:48, 2 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
This article needs to be seperated. We dont find crafting and the craftdwarf workshop in the same article and the same goes here too. Trading is how to trade and what it means in this game. Trade depot is a construct. An encyclopedia defines things and as such we should define them seperately. It all needs to be organized as well. The flow chart is undefined and in the wrong section, etc.<br />
Ill move some stuff around and work to clean some up now but nothing to radical at the moment... what do you think?<br />
[[User:Iluziat|Iluziat]] 07:03, 15 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Extraction from different articles ==<br />
<br />
All the information on trading seems quite scattered now (Trade depot, Caravan, Dwarf, Elf, Human etc), and as most stuff is well written I think we should merge the trade sections to this one page and leave behind only refecences. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 08:29, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:Looking good, is there a 'your first caravan'-type tutorial anywhere we could link to? Something with advice on the sort of goods to prepare and what to buy for the first winter, with new players in mind. I'll try and find one somewhere. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:07, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
: Done, linked to the trade section in the new player guide. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:11, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Done++ Someone else finish merging the information from Caravans into the page. Make sure to get that awesome Elf trader image. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:10, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Haulers? ==<br />
In my experience the "bring item to depot" tasks were performed by any dwarf, even without any hauling labors enabled. Can also be my imagination. I cannot check it for now, so, anyone, please verify.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:49, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:That's correct, as many times my pure crafters will stop crafting to haul goods to the depot, despite having only one or two production labors enabled. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:41, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Is this similar to plant gathering where even non-working nobles and children will do it, or is it limted to any regular dwarf regardless of labour? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 19:04, 31 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:::Yes, nobles and children will haul stuff to the depot. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:19, 1 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Moving goods on afterwards ==<br />
<br />
To get things ''out'' of the depot.... do I have to order them removed while the caravan is still around?<br />
I have starving dwarves... and food going rotten in the depot![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:36, 5 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:AFAIK, no. in my experience, anything bought is treated as like it's just lying there, not being traded.<br />
Well, yes and no. Once trading is finished dwarves will start bringing the bought goods in while the caravan still is there. But you cant 'order' them to per se ;) Your own stuff that wasnt sold however will remain in depot till the caravan leaves. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:45, 13 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::Unless you go back into the {{k|g}}oods menu at the Depot and unmark them for trading. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:25, 14 February 2008 (EST)<br />
I've a question in the same vein: I just traded for a truckload of goods, but the traders didn't even leave them in the depot! They just carried my goods out with them. Were my dwarves supposed to carry all of the goods back earlier? --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 14:08, 16 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
: Wow, this is super late for a response, but are you sure you {{k|t}}raded with them and didn't just {{k|o}}ffer them your stuff as a gift? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:06, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Duplicate Page?==<br />
The page "Caravan" has very similar information, though this "trading" page seems more complete.[Samyotix]<br />
<br />
== culling on mandates ==<br />
<br />
what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::I am quite sure that "culling on mandates: on" hides all bins containing items which have active Noble Export Bans. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 09:16, 13 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== "everything is ruined now" ==<br />
I just accidentally tried to trade the elves a wooden bin full of stone goods. Now ALL my stone goods, including ones not actually in that bin, are unacceptable. I ended up just seizing the rope I needed, but I'd like to know if this is a glitch, or if I just made them too angry to trade. <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] ([[User talk:Shadow archmagi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Shadow archmagi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
:It's not a glitch. Elves refuse to trade at all after you give them even a single wood or animal product. After you do that the trade option is locked until they come back to trade next year. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:52, 27 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:The wooden bin told the elves you hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate animals. Don't trade dead trees or dead animal parts to elves. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 13:18, 22 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Depot Access==<br />
Not a single square on my map is accessible by the caravan. What should i do? --[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
EDIT: My bad. It seems that it shows every square as inaccessible if the depot is not fully constructed--[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Trading Margins ==<br />
In regards to this submission:<br />
"If you have a somewhat experienced broker or you already raised the traiders mood to pleased or above you can usually trade with marginal profit for them and you can also safely ignore their counteroffers, offering the same trade a second time, successfully."<br />
<br />
You do realize that when they make a counteroffer they automatically add those counteroffer goods to the pot, right? Just making sure. Are you saying you go back through and remove each item their counteroffer added to your side of the deal? Seems much simpler to just stick to the ~50% rule of thumb, especially at the beginning with low skills and again once you reach the point of having so many trade goods that you can easily buy everything you need from each caravan with plenty of goods left over. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 14:55, 22 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
: Yes, exactly. Whenever i get a counteroffer I remove all items from the list they added until their profit is back to what i deem fit, sometimes leaving a low value item, say, 50☼, they chose, if I wanted to trade it anyway. Since this is not a beginners guide page, I think it's wrong to advise people to a 50% profit margin that is much higher than necessary. Once the traders are happy, they will even agree to trading an anvil for an anvil. I tested this extensively because usually i want them to leave early and thus try to make them angry. Almost impossible. We could however add smth about the (suspected) advantages of having high export totals like bigger caravans, more immigrants, arrival of king. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 06:39, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
::The 50% rule of thumb is a good starting point either way. "Advanced" page or not, before I posted that, there was no guidance on what profit margin the visiting traders would generally accept, so that people were left to find out the hard way.<br />
::Going back through a long list of your trade goods to hunt down and remove the items which the visiting trader added to the offer seems like a bit of a waste of time to me, unless you just have very few trade goods or a really tight budget at your fortress.<br />
::As for being able to get away with lower margins once the trader is happy, that is definitely useful knowledge and could be expanded upon. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 12:52, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
There is no way to refuse a counter-offer, is there? The only option is to hit {{k|Enter}}, and the "goods are added to the pot" as you say ... correct? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 09:07, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Correct, however, you're free to simply remove the additionally requested items and re-offer. In the case of a new trader in his first few trade sessions, this will likely work, as he gained experience (probably a LOT) just by offering. Even if it doesn't, as long as you don't repeat it many times (4+ I'd say) then there's no real risk of driving them off. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:16, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I find it easiest to commence one dwarf with novice valuer that way you already know prices... within the first trading I can usually get some items at straight trade (0% profit) maybe it depends on civilisation demands.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:14, 13 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::If you want a trade to succeed just make sure the trader gets 100-1000* profit. Almost every trade I made with this method was accepted. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:09, 15 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Goblins butchering my caravans. ==<br />
<br />
Every time I trade with the caravans, a goblin ambush comes and the merchants are all killed. Ive taken new measures to prevent this, but will merchants come back to trade? and what effect does their death have? <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Wafl|Wafl]] ([[User talk:Wafl|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Wafl|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
<br />
My caravans get shot up by goblins all the time. Then you get to loot their stuff. The caravans always seem to come back next year. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 22:49, 24 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Trading flowchart ==<br />
<br />
Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)<br />
<br />
Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right<br />
{|cellpadding="2" border="1"<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})<br />
|-<br />
| Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})<br />
Check green area reaches edge of map<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map<br />
"A--- caravan from --- has arrived."<br />
|-<br />
| Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot<br />
"Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods"<br />
|-<br />
| Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded <br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]<br />
<br />
:Ask and ye shall receive<br />
{|cellspacing=0 align=center<br />
|-<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Arrive at fortress location<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Create Goods<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Build Depot<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Check Depot is accessible<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Set goods to be traded<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan to arrive at depot and merchants to finish unloading<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for goods to be hauled<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Request the trader at the depot and turn off his other labours<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Trade<br />
|}<br />
You'll note I shifted the location of requesting trader --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
:The above was the first draft. You can access the current version at [[Trading/Flowchart]]. Anyway, what I wanted to say was '''Re: Adeptable's changes'''<br />
:I don't think the third branch is neccesary. For one, it makes it seem too wide, and secondary it implies that turning off the trader's labours ''all the time'' means that trading will happen faster - almost as if it will make merchants arrive more often. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 23:36, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Offerings ==<br />
<br />
Can anyone expound on the function of {{K|o}}ffering goods as gifts to traders? I tried giving the elves about 1000 worth of tchotchkes, and the next year they showed up with more goods than I've ever seen -- lots of caged animals, whereas I usually get very few, and so on. However, other times I gave them more and it seemed nothing changed. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:01, 7 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Gifts to the traders (and large trading profits) should increase the number of traders / wagons you get the following year, so they'll bring more stuff to trade. AFAIK no-one knows about the numbers for sure though. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 14:51, 9 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Add hint: "Buy everything ... in case you get a strange mood"? ==<br />
<br />
Personally I've found it very useful to do this:<br />
<br />
When traders arrive, <br />
a) optionally check stocks.<br />
b) Buy everything you can't make or harvest in your own fort.<br />
c) In the diplomat meeting, order everything you can't make or harvest.<br />
<br />
To be specific: Thread, Silk, cloth, metal bars (anything else?).<br />
<br />
The reason: <br />
a) Dwarves sometimes demand items out of some metal or alloy they like.<br />
b) Dwarves who are possessed or get a strange mood will sometimes demand silk or cloth.<br />
<br />
Players who proactively (harr!) seek to stock materials for possible moods will IMO have much less of a problem with dwarves going insane from moods. However I couldn't figure out where (or if) I should insert that, so I'll just add this idea (adding a hint: buy everything you don't have) to the discussion.<br />
<br />
Also, as far as I know, possessed/moody dwarves in the current version (27.176.38c) do not demand specific items. Rather, they want a) any metal bar b) any metal ore c) Silk d) Cloth e) wood f) raw gem g) any stone ... that was it, right?. So probably such a hint could read something like:<br />
<br />
"NOTE: If your fortress cannot harvest silk, it would be useful to order some from the caravans. If you do not have a cloth industry yet, maybe order some cloth as well. Having a small stock of materials which you are not actively using in your economy - e.g. GCS silk - will increase the likelihood of your fortress gaining an artifact from any mood or possession."<br />
[[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 14:49, 9 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Clear the perimeter? ==<br />
<br />
Is clearing the entire perimeter of the map really necessary? While my depot has been accessible at all, the caravan has '''always''' appeared at a point with access to the depot. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:13, 12 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:What the article says is:<br />
:#Caravans enter the map from a random direction which does not coincide with the relative direction of the originating civilization, <br />
:#they may appear from different directions or z-levels each year<br />
:#they cannot use stairs<br />
:#they may leave without trading if it takes too long to reach the trade depot<br />
:With the above points in mind:<br />
:#In order to guarantee perfect, permanent wagon accessibility, a three tile path must be cleared around the entire perimeter of the map, with at least one joining path from the border to the trade depot. Any parts of this path system which have grass must be paved with floor tiles, bridges, or roads to prevent trees from growing. Ramps must be used to adjust z-level elevation. <br />
<br />
I have certainly had a depot accessible to the southern border, then had the human merchants only turn up with mules because they were approaching from a different direction. <br />
<br />
The recommendations are how to ensure the human wagons turn up every summer (it also helps to remember to have your drawbridge down as soon as summer commences!) If you are not so concerned about human merchants then ignore the advice. If you don't have enough dwarf-power then ignore the advice. Some of it only needs to be done once (ie: adjusting slopes), and some of it just gives you more territory to consider for defending from invaders (being open to merchants also opens you to invaders).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:33, 13 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Can anyone give any better figures for point 4? ie: If I embark to a 16x16 area (the biggest available), and build my depot in the middle of the map, does anyone know whether they will often not make it? I think I'm built in a 12x12 or a 10x10 area, and I was planning to build a depot in the upper middle... my area is so big because I wanted magma pipe, river, and sand (and the river was far south, sand far east, magma far west). I'd rather not spend a bunch of time on this new fort only to find that half the time merchants never end up making it out to my depot...<br />
[[User:Morikal|Morikal]] 13:15, 12 November 2008 (Eastern)<br />
<br />
:I wouldn't worry about it. I'm on a fairly big region (6x9), and I've seen them travel almost the entire diagonal length to get to my depot, with ample time left for trading. But if you make it so that there's only one route to the depot, they'll take that route. I finally put my depot in one corner and used walls and existing obstacles (boulders) to force them into a natural canyon which led into my fort. They now always enter and exit in this area, less than 100 tiles from the depot. I'll add pics of it to the article.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:03, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Seizing goods==<br />
"It is worth noting that in the Mac port (untested for other ports), you can simply remove the depot that the merchants are camped out on to recieve all their goods."<br />
<br />
I can confirm that this also works in the PC version.[[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 14:07, 13 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I believe this has been confirmed to cause the same ill will as seizing the items FWIW. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 18:01, 24 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Empty caravans ==<br />
<br />
human, elf, and dwarf caravans bringing me nothing.<br />
is it possible to have a depot too full? --[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 07:30, 28 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:In recent versions of the game I've noticed that traders, after their initial visit, will only bring what was mentioned in your previous trade agreement with them. In earlier versions they'd bring all sorts of tat along too. Did you perhaps not request any goods for import? I don't imagine this could affect the Elves as well though. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 08:02, 28 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Prior to the latest group of releases, I'd been getting empty caravans for a LONG time, Elves and Humans alike, and occasionally even the Dwarves. Hasn't happened to me in the e release yet though (hadn't spent too much time on the other releases). --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:13, 28 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== starvation ==<br />
<br />
it must be because they brought food to my starving settlement<br />
(dwarves will run out and get food straight from the caravan)<br />
<br />
== Added a small bit. ==<br />
<br />
I quickly changed the section about the possible exploit of deleting a trade depot from Mac-only-bug to an across the board phenomenon.<br />
<br />
== Caravan at Inaccessible Depot ==<br />
<br />
I assume it is related to the 3 wide path only showing as 1 green square, but the caravan has stopped at a trade depot that is listed as inaccessible. Does this mean that some trade depots will show bad with SHIFT-D but are actually okay? --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 21:15, 8 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:The three-wide path showing only one green square is, to my knowledge, correct. That green is the center of the path, along which the center of the wagon must align with to fit within the three-wide path. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 23:14, 8 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Thanks. It'd be nice then if the Shift-D showed that as a caravan accessible depot then. --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 01:21, 9 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Correction: It does, there was a boulder in the way that I did not see. --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 22:10, 10 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== 50% profit rule ==<br />
<br />
This really, REALLY needs to be made clearer in the game. There's nothing wrong with the trader telling us how much profit he'd expect from our goods! I've got tens of thousands worth of goods that I haven't sold for two years straight because the bloody traders wouldn't tell me how much they want, and I didn't find the 50% rule buried in this article until just now! --[[User:Theory|Theory]] 09:36, 13 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:It's hardly 'buried' in the article, it's certainly not a rule, and it is made pretty clear in the game. I'm not just trying to be contrary; let me explain: A skilled broker can routinely trade with only a thirty or twenty percent profit, even down to ten percent if the merchant is in a good mood. If the merchant wants more profit, he will either put forth a counter-offer or say "With your trade goods such as they are, I can't possibly imagine you getting all of those items." This seems like a pretty clear indication that he wants a bigger margin. As to its place in the article: a full half of the section titled "Trading" details the fifty percent suggestion. If you think it deserves increased prominence, I encourage you to edit it yourself. Them's my six cents. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 17:16, 13 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: afaik, traders will accept ''any'' profit, as long as they're not annoyed and also as long as you're not trying to buy 'high-tech' items like steel anvils or bars, with 'low-tech' items such as poorly crafted pieces of stone, bone etc [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 17:58, 21 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Elves and dead stuff==<br />
<br />
it seems elves will make counter-offers for dead stuff, like totems, bone and shell crafts... needs to be fixed imo [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 18:00, 21 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Adamantium in trade window==<br />
<br />
I've just noticed that Adamantine strands appear in my trade window in purple text despite them not being present at the depot and marked for trade. I'm fairly sure that this is something to do with mandates from the nobles (my broker has forbade the export of adamantine) but I can't find any mention of this on the Wiki, any thoughts? [[User:Extar|Extar]] 21:55, 5 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
I did a bit more testing and the purple text is clearly to do with export bans, I'll add it to the mandate page. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 22:02, 5 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==They are selling dead animals?!==<br />
<br />
I don't know if this is because my fortress is in the freezing tundra, but all caravans offer me cages with dead, butcherable corpses inside. I don't complain about this: There's no additional charge for them, and so I get free meat, fat, skins and bones. Does this happen in other biomes, too? --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 09:43, 11 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Carvan over ? ==<br />
Can someone please help me, I need to know if caravans can travel over traps in the latest version, and also if the people will get caught in them and die, and could whoever tests this please do it with all types of traps, not just one. Thank you in advance. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 15:57, 27 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:They have no problems with stone traps, cage traps, or weapon traps in my experience. :) Until the King started requesting them before he'd show up, I didn't bother with roads. I just paved the way to the edge with traps. One catch is that creatures who fall unconscious (and maybe randomly some dogs) will get caught in the traps. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 19:51, 27 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Inaccessible Depot ==<br />
What happens if a caravan arrives and you have no accessible depot at all? Do they pass you by? Do they wait around offscreen to give you a chance to build or expose one? My depot is underground, accessible only by a drawbridged path. I'd prefer to keep the bridge up (which means ''no'' access, foot or wagon), until I need it, but I don't want to miss a caravan.<br /><br />
Also, what happens if, after the traders enter the map, the depot they are heading to becomes inaccessible? I could put a sacrificial depot outside to draw them in, then seal it up after opening my secure depot.--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 15:43, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I don't have first-hand experience with this, but I would say the second option is your best bet.{{verify}} Plus, you could make the second depot bait for a monster trap somehow. Just be sure that the traders can't get to the bait-depot by the time they get near it, or they'll unload there, and you'll have to haul the additional distance. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 16:47, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I've had a few caravans show up before I get a Trade Depot going a few times, because I have a tendency to over-engineer and get sidetracked. The text claims they 'bypass your inaccessable site', but when in all the times I've done this, they hang around a while and if I quickly build a Trade Depot, they'll happily come over and trade with me as though nothing ever happened.<br><br />
::While I can't be certain if a caravan will behave the exact same way if the depot is inaccessible instead of nonexistent, I'd be willing to bet that's the case. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:53, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I seem to remember that it's only the wagons that bypass you; traders using mules or other animals will stick around for a while, giving you a chance to build a depot.<br />
<br />
::As for a "sacrificial" depot, I suspect that'll give them pathing freakouts, and they won't switch course to the "real" depot once the fake one is disassembled. I had a depot with a very narrow and twisty path once (there just happened to be one from the edge of the map), but when a large caravan with lots of wagons showed up, two of them got stuck in a dead end or something and never made it to the depot. They only let you trade once everyone's arrived, so the entire caravan left without trading anything.<br />
<br />
::One thing you could try is keeping locked doors behind your depot to keep dwarves from going through it. When the traders show up, unlock the doors so you can do business; when the siegers show up, raise the bridge.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:32, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::I already plan to keep it locked off from the fortress when not in use. The thing is, if anything goes wrong with my stockpiles, things end up being left in the depot between traders. If it's accessable at all times, I'm liable to see thieves raiding it.<br />
:::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::Put a few wardogs on restraints in the access tunnel. Restraints don't block wagon access.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:36, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Locking them In ==<br />
What happens if you trap traders in the depot area and they want to leave? Does it count as attaching them? If the goblins show up, I have to to seal the bridges, whether the traders are gone or not.<br /><br />
--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 17:23, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
:As long as the traders don't go insane from you delaying them, you're most likely fine. That said, it'd probably behoove you to let them out regardless of the danger. If they have guards, the guards will go to town on the goblins. If they don't, they get slaughtered and you can claim everything they were holding, guilt-free. <br />
:--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:39, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
::''Emotioal'' guilt or ''political'' guilt? Doesn't a vanished caravan damage political relations even if I didn't kill them?<br />
::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 17:42, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::I was referring to political guilt. It's possible that it does, but I have never noticed an ill effect, even though I've had about a half-dozen caravans meet their untimely end going to or from my fortresses. So if it does, it's minor, and a lot less inflammatory than doing it yourself. <br />
:::--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:44, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::Hmm... If you attack a caravan and slaughter them all, leaving none to report what happened, does that count as 'vanishing mysteriously'? After all, there's no-one to say you did it.<br />
::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:00, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::: What if just drowned them all? The fallout should be the same as if they get killed by goblins: you haven't actually "attacked" them, they get killed by the "environment". [[User:Mattkorz|Mattkorz]] 16:45, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::: But this work in two way : The mountainhomes / human capital will know that your fortress was the last one visited, and won't know that merchants has been killed by "goblins" or "the environnement". <br />
:::::Also, I'm pretty sure that in current version {{version|0.28.181.40d}}, killed merchants DO damage political relations : My immigration (along with merchants visits) stop for one or two year after a dwarven caravan has been attacked, and human sieged me when their diplomat died in an ambush. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 05:50, 1 November 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Barge ==<br />
<br />
I have a pic of traders floating down a brook. The Z-level below shows the water at a solid 7 deep everywhere. <br />
[[Image:Barge.png]]<br />
<br />
There are plenty of paths to my depot (including a bridge across the brook). I was wondering if anybody has seen anything like this before.<br />
--[[User:KValthaliondil|KValthaliondil]] 20:16, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:That's just a wagon. It's possible they spawned right in the valley the brook goes through, in which case they'd have to travel along it until they reached open land. If it was a river, they couldn't have traveled along it, but brooks are different from rivers in that they are traversible by land-based creatures.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:22, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Brook tiles can be walked on AFAIK, so a trader will treat a Brook as he would a 3-tile wide road. Also cmp. http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Brook [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 09:19, 13 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Multiple Depots ==<br />
<br />
Has anyone ever built two Depots and had the caravan split into each one? What happens? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:08, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:Never had them split. The traders always pick one or the other, although the hauling of goods does mean that you may wind up with one Deport filled with goods that you're just not going to be able to sell. It might be interesting to try this in situations where one deport is made inacessible after the traders show, or where multiple civilizations are trading with you. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 15:41, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:The merchants will generally choose whichever depot is closer. I'm not sure what would happen if one is abruptly made inaccessable after the merchants show, though. That's an interesting idea. Generally, multiple depots are only useful if you want the option of making the caravan wait outside, which can be helpful if you want their guards' assistance during an attack. I've never had a situation where multiple civs are trading with me at the same time. Caravans tend to only hang out for about a month in the season they typically show up. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 15:49, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::I have also never had multiple civs show up. I had the idea when one of the elf merchants decided to go the long way around my fortress, and through my trap labyrinth. I came up with the idea of a "bait depot," which becomes blocked off when I open the drawbridge to my trader's entrance and depot. Only, I worry what would happen if one or more of the traders got in there. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 19:08, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Elven caravans always arrive in Spring, human caravans always arrive in Summer, and Dwarven caravans always arrive in Autumn. Apparently, though I haven't tested this personally, the only season in which two caravans can arrive is Autumn, and that would require goblin or kobold traders to come at that time along with the dwarves. I'm pretty sure kobolds don't have caravans, so that looks to be something that's not very likely (if at all possible) without modding in additional entities. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 19:46, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Nope, not just Autumn. I had elves and goblins trading with me at the same time. When I went to trade it asked me who I wanted to trade with before going to the trading screen. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 22:23, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::: The multiple civilizations trading was because I was playing a modded game, specifically the [[List_of_mods#Civilization_Forge_Mod | Civilization Forge]] one. At one point, I had three different civilizations trading with me. The game pops up a screen with the list of civilizations trading and asks you to choose from them. Surprised me, because I could have sworn there was a situation with a trapped Elven caravan in an unmodded game where the incoming Human caravan refused to leave the edge of the map until the Elves left. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:17, 7 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== How many wagons? ==<br />
<br />
I don't think I've ever seen more than 8 wagons in a given caravan. Is that the limit? Has anyone ever seen more than 8?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:01, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Mass Selection of Goods to be Moved ==<br />
<br />
Question: Is there a way to designate multiple goods in one selection to be brought to the depot? <br />
<br />
I'm getting really tired of indivually selecting goods to be moved to the depot when I have massive amounts of crafts, food, etc. So is anyone familiar with ways to select multiple goods at once? Maybe a "start" and "end" tags (for lack of a better name) and every good caught inbetween is designated to be moved to the depot? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 14:47 10 November 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Nope. About the best you can do is use the select (search) menu to get all the ones of the type you want, then enter-down-enter-down. You can flag about 200 a minute this way, though.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:17, 10 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::That's what I was doing previously. Are there any plans for a "mass selector" to be introduced? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 16:50 10 November 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:::Not that I know of. Make a feature request on the [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php forums].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 10 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::AFAIK, there is no good way to do this from the trade screen, which is why it's important to set up custom stockpiles and have plenty of bins. Man, I really wish you could make bins out of stone.<br />
<br />
<br />
==Merchant Moods==<br />
<br />
My fortress hadn't been doing too well, but I didn't know it was so bad it could affect merchants... and their pack animals. As the last merchant was about to leave the map, he suddenly went berserk and was cut down by his bodyguard, who then fled the scene. Shortly thereafter, I recieved a message that the donkey had been stricken by melacholy. Has anyone else had this happen?<br />
<br />
:They usually eventually go nuts if they can't leave for some reason. Never heard of something like what you're describing.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:24, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== No More Dwarven Caravan ==<br />
<br />
So. The Dwarven caravan has not come in the past two years. I think, though I am not sure, that this corresponds with when I met the requirements for the Incoming King, though he has not yet seen fit to arrive. I believe I also capped the population sometime in there, but I think it was after the first year of no caravan. I don't recall in any way molesting previous caravans. I needs me some dolomite and steel bars, anyone know what's going on here? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 02:10, 13 November 2008 (EST)</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Trading&diff=3607440d Talk:Trading2008-11-13T14:16:39Z<p>Samyotix: /* culling on mandates */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Consolidation of Trading, Trade Depot, Caravans, and Wagon ==<br />
<br />
This needs wikification with some amounts of rewriting. I will give it a go. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 06:51, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Yea thanks, this is my first try at a wiki-page. sorry if it was crappy... --[[User:CombatWombat|CombatWombat]] 06:42, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Nah, there's no such thing as a crappy wiki edit, when its got content in it. Just remember to be bold, otherwise there would be nothing here. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 07:29, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Well this thread's a little old, but I re-wrote and consolidated some more information on this page. There was also some discussion of this on [[Talk:Caravan#Merge_this_into_Trading]]. If you don't approve, please don't just revert it, I organized and cleaned up a lot of the scattered info, so at the very least it should be split from where it is now on the Trading page to where it should ultimately go. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 02:48, 2 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
This article needs to be seperated. We dont find crafting and the craftdwarf workshop in the same article and the same goes here too. Trading is how to trade and what it means in this game. Trade depot is a construct. An encyclopedia defines things and as such we should define them seperately. It all needs to be organized as well. The flow chart is undefined and in the wrong section, etc.<br />
Ill move some stuff around and work to clean some up now but nothing to radical at the moment... what do you think?<br />
[[User:Iluziat|Iluziat]] 07:03, 15 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Extraction from different articles ==<br />
<br />
All the information on trading seems quite scattered now (Trade depot, Caravan, Dwarf, Elf, Human etc), and as most stuff is well written I think we should merge the trade sections to this one page and leave behind only refecences. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 08:29, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:Looking good, is there a 'your first caravan'-type tutorial anywhere we could link to? Something with advice on the sort of goods to prepare and what to buy for the first winter, with new players in mind. I'll try and find one somewhere. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:07, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
: Done, linked to the trade section in the new player guide. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:11, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Done++ Someone else finish merging the information from Caravans into the page. Make sure to get that awesome Elf trader image. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:10, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Haulers? ==<br />
In my experience the "bring item to depot" tasks were performed by any dwarf, even without any hauling labors enabled. Can also be my imagination. I cannot check it for now, so, anyone, please verify.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:49, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:That's correct, as many times my pure crafters will stop crafting to haul goods to the depot, despite having only one or two production labors enabled. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:41, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Is this similar to plant gathering where even non-working nobles and children will do it, or is it limted to any regular dwarf regardless of labour? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 19:04, 31 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:::Yes, nobles and children will haul stuff to the depot. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:19, 1 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Moving goods on afterwards ==<br />
<br />
To get things ''out'' of the depot.... do I have to order them removed while the caravan is still around?<br />
I have starving dwarves... and food going rotten in the depot![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:36, 5 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:AFAIK, no. in my experience, anything bought is treated as like it's just lying there, not being traded.<br />
Well, yes and no. Once trading is finished dwarves will start bringing the bought goods in while the caravan still is there. But you cant 'order' them to per se ;) Your own stuff that wasnt sold however will remain in depot till the caravan leaves. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:45, 13 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::Unless you go back into the {{k|g}}oods menu at the Depot and unmark them for trading. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:25, 14 February 2008 (EST)<br />
I've a question in the same vein: I just traded for a truckload of goods, but the traders didn't even leave them in the depot! They just carried my goods out with them. Were my dwarves supposed to carry all of the goods back earlier? --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 14:08, 16 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
: Wow, this is super late for a response, but are you sure you {{k|t}}raded with them and didn't just {{k|o}}ffer them your stuff as a gift? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:06, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Duplicate Page?==<br />
The page "Caravan" has very similar information, though this "trading" page seems more complete.[Samyotix]<br />
<br />
== culling on mandates ==<br />
<br />
what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::I am quite sure that "culling on mandates: on" hides all bins containing items which have active Noble Export Bans. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 09:16, 13 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== "everything is ruined now" ==<br />
I just accidentally tried to trade the elves a wooden bin full of stone goods. Now ALL my stone goods, including ones not actually in that bin, are unacceptable. I ended up just seizing the rope I needed, but I'd like to know if this is a glitch, or if I just made them too angry to trade. <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] ([[User talk:Shadow archmagi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Shadow archmagi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
:It's not a glitch. Elves refuse to trade at all after you give them even a single wood or animal product. After you do that the trade option is locked until they come back to trade next year. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:52, 27 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:The wooden bin told the elves you hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate animals. Don't trade dead trees or dead animal parts to elves. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 13:18, 22 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Depot Access==<br />
Not a single square on my map is accessible by the caravan. What should i do? --[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
EDIT: My bad. It seems that it shows every square as inaccessible if the depot is not fully constructed--[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Trading Margins ==<br />
In regards to this submission:<br />
"If you have a somewhat experienced broker or you already raised the traiders mood to pleased or above you can usually trade with marginal profit for them and you can also safely ignore their counteroffers, offering the same trade a second time, successfully."<br />
<br />
You do realize that when they make a counteroffer they automatically add those counteroffer goods to the pot, right? Just making sure. Are you saying you go back through and remove each item their counteroffer added to your side of the deal? Seems much simpler to just stick to the ~50% rule of thumb, especially at the beginning with low skills and again once you reach the point of having so many trade goods that you can easily buy everything you need from each caravan with plenty of goods left over. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 14:55, 22 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
: Yes, exactly. Whenever i get a counteroffer I remove all items from the list they added until their profit is back to what i deem fit, sometimes leaving a low value item, say, 50☼, they chose, if I wanted to trade it anyway. Since this is not a beginners guide page, I think it's wrong to advise people to a 50% profit margin that is much higher than necessary. Once the traders are happy, they will even agree to trading an anvil for an anvil. I tested this extensively because usually i want them to leave early and thus try to make them angry. Almost impossible. We could however add smth about the (suspected) advantages of having high export totals like bigger caravans, more immigrants, arrival of king. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 06:39, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
::The 50% rule of thumb is a good starting point either way. "Advanced" page or not, before I posted that, there was no guidance on what profit margin the visiting traders would generally accept, so that people were left to find out the hard way.<br />
::Going back through a long list of your trade goods to hunt down and remove the items which the visiting trader added to the offer seems like a bit of a waste of time to me, unless you just have very few trade goods or a really tight budget at your fortress.<br />
::As for being able to get away with lower margins once the trader is happy, that is definitely useful knowledge and could be expanded upon. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 12:52, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
There is no way to refuse a counter-offer, is there? The only option is to hit {{k|Enter}}, and the "goods are added to the pot" as you say ... correct? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 09:07, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Correct, however, you're free to simply remove the additionally requested items and re-offer. In the case of a new trader in his first few trade sessions, this will likely work, as he gained experience (probably a LOT) just by offering. Even if it doesn't, as long as you don't repeat it many times (4+ I'd say) then there's no real risk of driving them off. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:16, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I find it easiest to commence one dwarf with novice valuer that way you already know prices... within the first trading I can usually get some items at straight trade (0% profit) maybe it depends on civilisation demands.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:14, 13 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::If you want a trade to succeed just make sure the trader gets 100-1000* profit. Almost every trade I made with this method was accepted. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:09, 15 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Goblins butchering my caravans. ==<br />
<br />
Every time I trade with the caravans, a goblin ambush comes and the merchants are all killed. Ive taken new measures to prevent this, but will merchants come back to trade? and what effect does their death have? <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Wafl|Wafl]] ([[User talk:Wafl|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Wafl|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
<br />
My caravans get shot up by goblins all the time. Then you get to loot their stuff. The caravans always seem to come back next year. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 22:49, 24 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Trading flowchart ==<br />
<br />
Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)<br />
<br />
Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right<br />
{|cellpadding="2" border="1"<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})<br />
|-<br />
| Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})<br />
Check green area reaches edge of map<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map<br />
"A--- caravan from --- has arrived."<br />
|-<br />
| Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot<br />
"Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods"<br />
|-<br />
| Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded <br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]<br />
<br />
:Ask and ye shall receive<br />
{|cellspacing=0 align=center<br />
|-<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Arrive at fortress location<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Create Goods<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Build Depot<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Check Depot is accessible<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Set goods to be traded<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan to arrive at depot and merchants to finish unloading<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for goods to be hauled<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Request the trader at the depot and turn off his other labours<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Trade<br />
|}<br />
You'll note I shifted the location of requesting trader --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
:The above was the first draft. You can access the current version at [[Trading/Flowchart]]. Anyway, what I wanted to say was '''Re: Adeptable's changes'''<br />
:I don't think the third branch is neccesary. For one, it makes it seem too wide, and secondary it implies that turning off the trader's labours ''all the time'' means that trading will happen faster - almost as if it will make merchants arrive more often. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 23:36, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Offerings ==<br />
<br />
Can anyone expound on the function of {{K|o}}ffering goods as gifts to traders? I tried giving the elves about 1000 worth of tchotchkes, and the next year they showed up with more goods than I've ever seen -- lots of caged animals, whereas I usually get very few, and so on. However, other times I gave them more and it seemed nothing changed. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:01, 7 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Gifts to the traders (and large trading profits) should increase the number of traders / wagons you get the following year, so they'll bring more stuff to trade. AFAIK no-one knows about the numbers for sure though. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 14:51, 9 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Add hint: "Buy everything ... in case you get a strange mood"? ==<br />
<br />
Personally I've found it very useful to do this:<br />
<br />
When traders arrive, <br />
a) optionally check stocks.<br />
b) Buy everything you can't make or harvest in your own fort.<br />
c) In the diplomat meeting, order everything you can't make or harvest.<br />
<br />
To be specific: Thread, Silk, cloth, metal bars (anything else?).<br />
<br />
The reason: <br />
a) Dwarves sometimes demand items out of some metal or alloy they like.<br />
b) Dwarves who are possessed or get a strange mood will sometimes demand silk or cloth.<br />
<br />
Players who proactively (harr!) seek to stock materials for possible moods will IMO have much less of a problem with dwarves going insane from moods. However I couldn't figure out where (or if) I should insert that, so I'll just add this idea (adding a hint: buy everything you don't have) to the discussion.<br />
<br />
Also, as far as I know, possessed/moody dwarves in the current version (27.176.38c) do not demand specific items. Rather, they want a) any metal bar b) any metal ore c) Silk d) Cloth e) wood f) raw gem g) any stone ... that was it, right?. So probably such a hint could read something like:<br />
<br />
"NOTE: If your fortress cannot harvest silk, it would be useful to order some from the caravans. If you do not have a cloth industry yet, maybe order some cloth as well. Having a small stock of materials which you are not actively using in your economy - e.g. GCS silk - will increase the likelihood of your fortress gaining an artifact from any mood or possession."<br />
[[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 14:49, 9 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Clear the perimeter? ==<br />
<br />
Is clearing the entire perimeter of the map really necessary? While my depot has been accessible at all, the caravan has '''always''' appeared at a point with access to the depot. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:13, 12 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:What the article says is:<br />
:#Caravans enter the map from a random direction which does not coincide with the relative direction of the originating civilization, <br />
:#they may appear from different directions or z-levels each year<br />
:#they cannot use stairs<br />
:#they may leave without trading if it takes too long to reach the trade depot<br />
:With the above points in mind:<br />
:#In order to guarantee perfect, permanent wagon accessibility, a three tile path must be cleared around the entire perimeter of the map, with at least one joining path from the border to the trade depot. Any parts of this path system which have grass must be paved with floor tiles, bridges, or roads to prevent trees from growing. Ramps must be used to adjust z-level elevation. <br />
<br />
I have certainly had a depot accessible to the southern border, then had the human merchants only turn up with mules because they were approaching from a different direction. <br />
<br />
The recommendations are how to ensure the human wagons turn up every summer (it also helps to remember to have your drawbridge down as soon as summer commences!) If you are not so concerned about human merchants then ignore the advice. If you don't have enough dwarf-power then ignore the advice. Some of it only needs to be done once (ie: adjusting slopes), and some of it just gives you more territory to consider for defending from invaders (being open to merchants also opens you to invaders).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:33, 13 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Can anyone give any better figures for point 4? ie: If I embark to a 16x16 area (the biggest available), and build my depot in the middle of the map, does anyone know whether they will often not make it? I think I'm built in a 12x12 or a 10x10 area, and I was planning to build a depot in the upper middle... my area is so big because I wanted magma pipe, river, and sand (and the river was far south, sand far east, magma far west). I'd rather not spend a bunch of time on this new fort only to find that half the time merchants never end up making it out to my depot...<br />
[[User:Morikal|Morikal]] 13:15, 12 November 2008 (Eastern)<br />
<br />
:I wouldn't worry about it. I'm on a fairly big region (6x9), and I've seen them travel almost the entire diagonal length to get to my depot, with ample time left for trading. But if you make it so that there's only one route to the depot, they'll take that route. I finally put my depot in one corner and used walls and existing obstacles (boulders) to force them into a natural canyon which led into my fort. They now always enter and exit in this area, less than 100 tiles from the depot. I'll add pics of it to the article.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:03, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Seizing goods==<br />
"It is worth noting that in the Mac port (untested for other ports), you can simply remove the depot that the merchants are camped out on to recieve all their goods."<br />
<br />
I can confirm that this also works in the PC version.[[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 14:07, 13 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I believe this has been confirmed to cause the same ill will as seizing the items FWIW. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 18:01, 24 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Empty caravans ==<br />
<br />
human, elf, and dwarf caravans bringing me nothing.<br />
is it possible to have a depot too full? --[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 07:30, 28 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:In recent versions of the game I've noticed that traders, after their initial visit, will only bring what was mentioned in your previous trade agreement with them. In earlier versions they'd bring all sorts of tat along too. Did you perhaps not request any goods for import? I don't imagine this could affect the Elves as well though. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 08:02, 28 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Prior to the latest group of releases, I'd been getting empty caravans for a LONG time, Elves and Humans alike, and occasionally even the Dwarves. Hasn't happened to me in the e release yet though (hadn't spent too much time on the other releases). --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:13, 28 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== starvation ==<br />
<br />
it must be because they brought food to my starving settlement<br />
(dwarves will run out and get food straight from the caravan)<br />
<br />
== Added a small bit. ==<br />
<br />
I quickly changed the section about the possible exploit of deleting a trade depot from Mac-only-bug to an across the board phenomenon.<br />
<br />
== Caravan at Inaccessible Depot ==<br />
<br />
I assume it is related to the 3 wide path only showing as 1 green square, but the caravan has stopped at a trade depot that is listed as inaccessible. Does this mean that some trade depots will show bad with SHIFT-D but are actually okay? --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 21:15, 8 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:The three-wide path showing only one green square is, to my knowledge, correct. That green is the center of the path, along which the center of the wagon must align with to fit within the three-wide path. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 23:14, 8 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Thanks. It'd be nice then if the Shift-D showed that as a caravan accessible depot then. --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 01:21, 9 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Correction: It does, there was a boulder in the way that I did not see. --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 22:10, 10 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== 50% profit rule ==<br />
<br />
This really, REALLY needs to be made clearer in the game. There's nothing wrong with the trader telling us how much profit he'd expect from our goods! I've got tens of thousands worth of goods that I haven't sold for two years straight because the bloody traders wouldn't tell me how much they want, and I didn't find the 50% rule buried in this article until just now! --[[User:Theory|Theory]] 09:36, 13 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:It's hardly 'buried' in the article, it's certainly not a rule, and it is made pretty clear in the game. I'm not just trying to be contrary; let me explain: A skilled broker can routinely trade with only a thirty or twenty percent profit, even down to ten percent if the merchant is in a good mood. If the merchant wants more profit, he will either put forth a counter-offer or say "With your trade goods such as they are, I can't possibly imagine you getting all of those items." This seems like a pretty clear indication that he wants a bigger margin. As to its place in the article: a full half of the section titled "Trading" details the fifty percent suggestion. If you think it deserves increased prominence, I encourage you to edit it yourself. Them's my six cents. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 17:16, 13 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: afaik, traders will accept ''any'' profit, as long as they're not annoyed and also as long as you're not trying to buy 'high-tech' items like steel anvils or bars, with 'low-tech' items such as poorly crafted pieces of stone, bone etc [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 17:58, 21 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Elves and dead stuff==<br />
<br />
it seems elves will make counter-offers for dead stuff, like totems, bone and shell crafts... needs to be fixed imo [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 18:00, 21 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Adamantium in trade window==<br />
<br />
I've just noticed that Adamantine strands appear in my trade window in purple text despite them not being present at the depot and marked for trade. I'm fairly sure that this is something to do with mandates from the nobles (my broker has forbade the export of adamantine) but I can't find any mention of this on the Wiki, any thoughts? [[User:Extar|Extar]] 21:55, 5 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
I did a bit more testing and the purple text is clearly to do with export bans, I'll add it to the mandate page. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 22:02, 5 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==They are selling dead animals?!==<br />
<br />
I don't know if this is because my fortress is in the freezing tundra, but all caravans offer me cages with dead, butcherable corpses inside. I don't complain about this: There's no additional charge for them, and so I get free meat, fat, skins and bones. Does this happen in other biomes, too? --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 09:43, 11 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Carvan over ? ==<br />
Can someone please help me, I need to know if caravans can travel over traps in the latest version, and also if the people will get caught in them and die, and could whoever tests this please do it with all types of traps, not just one. Thank you in advance. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 15:57, 27 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:They have no problems with stone traps, cage traps, or weapon traps in my experience. :) Until the King started requesting them before he'd show up, I didn't bother with roads. I just paved the way to the edge with traps. One catch is that creatures who fall unconscious (and maybe randomly some dogs) will get caught in the traps. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 19:51, 27 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Inaccessible Depot ==<br />
What happens if a caravan arrives and you have no accessible depot at all? Do they pass you by? Do they wait around offscreen to give you a chance to build or expose one? My depot is underground, accessible only by a drawbridged path. I'd prefer to keep the bridge up (which means ''no'' access, foot or wagon), until I need it, but I don't want to miss a caravan.<br /><br />
Also, what happens if, after the traders enter the map, the depot they are heading to becomes inaccessible? I could put a sacrificial depot outside to draw them in, then seal it up after opening my secure depot.--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 15:43, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I don't have first-hand experience with this, but I would say the second option is your best bet.{{verify}} Plus, you could make the second depot bait for a monster trap somehow. Just be sure that the traders can't get to the bait-depot by the time they get near it, or they'll unload there, and you'll have to haul the additional distance. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 16:47, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I've had a few caravans show up before I get a Trade Depot going a few times, because I have a tendency to over-engineer and get sidetracked. The text claims they 'bypass your inaccessable site', but when in all the times I've done this, they hang around a while and if I quickly build a Trade Depot, they'll happily come over and trade with me as though nothing ever happened.<br><br />
::While I can't be certain if a caravan will behave the exact same way if the depot is inaccessible instead of nonexistent, I'd be willing to bet that's the case. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:53, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I seem to remember that it's only the wagons that bypass you; traders using mules or other animals will stick around for a while, giving you a chance to build a depot.<br />
<br />
::As for a "sacrificial" depot, I suspect that'll give them pathing freakouts, and they won't switch course to the "real" depot once the fake one is disassembled. I had a depot with a very narrow and twisty path once (there just happened to be one from the edge of the map), but when a large caravan with lots of wagons showed up, two of them got stuck in a dead end or something and never made it to the depot. They only let you trade once everyone's arrived, so the entire caravan left without trading anything.<br />
<br />
::One thing you could try is keeping locked doors behind your depot to keep dwarves from going through it. When the traders show up, unlock the doors so you can do business; when the siegers show up, raise the bridge.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:32, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::I already plan to keep it locked off from the fortress when not in use. The thing is, if anything goes wrong with my stockpiles, things end up being left in the depot between traders. If it's accessable at all times, I'm liable to see thieves raiding it.<br />
:::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::Put a few wardogs on restraints in the access tunnel. Restraints don't block wagon access.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:36, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Locking them In ==<br />
What happens if you trap traders in the depot area and they want to leave? Does it count as attaching them? If the goblins show up, I have to to seal the bridges, whether the traders are gone or not.<br /><br />
--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 17:23, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
:As long as the traders don't go insane from you delaying them, you're most likely fine. That said, it'd probably behoove you to let them out regardless of the danger. If they have guards, the guards will go to town on the goblins. If they don't, they get slaughtered and you can claim everything they were holding, guilt-free. <br />
:--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:39, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
::''Emotioal'' guilt or ''political'' guilt? Doesn't a vanished caravan damage political relations even if I didn't kill them?<br />
::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 17:42, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::I was referring to political guilt. It's possible that it does, but I have never noticed an ill effect, even though I've had about a half-dozen caravans meet their untimely end going to or from my fortresses. So if it does, it's minor, and a lot less inflammatory than doing it yourself. <br />
:::--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:44, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::Hmm... If you attack a caravan and slaughter them all, leaving none to report what happened, does that count as 'vanishing mysteriously'? After all, there's no-one to say you did it.<br />
::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:00, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::: What if just drowned them all? The fallout should be the same as if they get killed by goblins: you haven't actually "attacked" them, they get killed by the "environment". [[User:Mattkorz|Mattkorz]] 16:45, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::: But this work in two way : The mountainhomes / human capital will know that your fortress was the last one visited, and won't know that merchants has been killed by "goblins" or "the environnement". <br />
:::::Also, I'm pretty sure that in current version {{version|0.28.181.40d}}, killed merchants DO damage political relations : My immigration (along with merchants visits) stop for one or two year after a dwarven caravan has been attacked, and human sieged me when their diplomat died in an ambush. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 05:50, 1 November 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Barge ==<br />
<br />
I have a pic of traders floating down a brook. The Z-level below shows the water at a solid 7 deep everywhere. <br />
[[Image:Barge.png]]<br />
<br />
There are plenty of paths to my depot (including a bridge across the brook). I was wondering if anybody has seen anything like this before.<br />
--[[User:KValthaliondil|KValthaliondil]] 20:16, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:That's just a wagon. It's possible they spawned right in the valley the brook goes through, in which case they'd have to travel along it until they reached open land. If it was a river, they couldn't have traveled along it, but brooks are different from rivers in that they are traversible by land-based creatures.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:22, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Multiple Depots ==<br />
<br />
Has anyone ever built two Depots and had the caravan split into each one? What happens? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:08, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:Never had them split. The traders always pick one or the other, although the hauling of goods does mean that you may wind up with one Deport filled with goods that you're just not going to be able to sell. It might be interesting to try this in situations where one deport is made inacessible after the traders show, or where multiple civilizations are trading with you. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 15:41, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:The merchants will generally choose whichever depot is closer. I'm not sure what would happen if one is abruptly made inaccessable after the merchants show, though. That's an interesting idea. Generally, multiple depots are only useful if you want the option of making the caravan wait outside, which can be helpful if you want their guards' assistance during an attack. I've never had a situation where multiple civs are trading with me at the same time. Caravans tend to only hang out for about a month in the season they typically show up. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 15:49, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::I have also never had multiple civs show up. I had the idea when one of the elf merchants decided to go the long way around my fortress, and through my trap labyrinth. I came up with the idea of a "bait depot," which becomes blocked off when I open the drawbridge to my trader's entrance and depot. Only, I worry what would happen if one or more of the traders got in there. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 19:08, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Elven caravans always arrive in Spring, human caravans always arrive in Summer, and Dwarven caravans always arrive in Autumn. Apparently, though I haven't tested this personally, the only season in which two caravans can arrive is Autumn, and that would require goblin or kobold traders to come at that time along with the dwarves. I'm pretty sure kobolds don't have caravans, so that looks to be something that's not very likely (if at all possible) without modding in additional entities. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 19:46, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Nope, not just Autumn. I had elves and goblins trading with me at the same time. When I went to trade it asked me who I wanted to trade with before going to the trading screen. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 22:23, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::: The multiple civilizations trading was because I was playing a modded game, specifically the [[List_of_mods#Civilization_Forge_Mod | Civilization Forge]] one. At one point, I had three different civilizations trading with me. The game pops up a screen with the list of civilizations trading and asks you to choose from them. Surprised me, because I could have sworn there was a situation with a trapped Elven caravan in an unmodded game where the incoming Human caravan refused to leave the edge of the map until the Elves left. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:17, 7 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== How many wagons? ==<br />
<br />
I don't think I've ever seen more than 8 wagons in a given caravan. Is that the limit? Has anyone ever seen more than 8?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:01, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Mass Selection of Goods to be Moved ==<br />
<br />
Question: Is there a way to designate multiple goods in one selection to be brought to the depot? <br />
<br />
I'm getting really tired of indivually selecting goods to be moved to the depot when I have massive amounts of crafts, food, etc. So is anyone familiar with ways to select multiple goods at once? Maybe a "start" and "end" tags (for lack of a better name) and every good caught inbetween is designated to be moved to the depot? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 14:47 10 November 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Nope. About the best you can do is use the select (search) menu to get all the ones of the type you want, then enter-down-enter-down. You can flag about 200 a minute this way, though.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:17, 10 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::That's what I was doing previously. Are there any plans for a "mass selector" to be introduced? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 16:50 10 November 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:::Not that I know of. Make a feature request on the [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php forums].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 10 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::AFAIK, there is no good way to do this from the trade screen, which is why it's important to set up custom stockpiles and have plenty of bins. Man, I really wish you could make bins out of stone.<br />
<br />
<br />
==Merchant Moods==<br />
<br />
My fortress hadn't been doing too well, but I didn't know it was so bad it could affect merchants... and their pack animals. As the last merchant was about to leave the map, he suddenly went berserk and was cut down by his bodyguard, who then fled the scene. Shortly thereafter, I recieved a message that the donkey had been stricken by melacholy. Has anyone else had this happen?<br />
<br />
:They usually eventually go nuts if they can't leave for some reason. Never heard of something like what you're describing.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:24, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== No More Dwarven Caravan ==<br />
<br />
So. The Dwarven caravan has not come in the past two years. I think, though I am not sure, that this corresponds with when I met the requirements for the Incoming King, though he has not yet seen fit to arrive. I believe I also capped the population sometime in there, but I think it was after the first year of no caravan. I don't recall in any way molesting previous caravans. I needs me some dolomite and steel bars, anyone know what's going on here? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 02:10, 13 November 2008 (EST)</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Shell&diff=3248340d Talk:Shell2008-11-13T14:15:21Z<p>Samyotix: /* Creating shell */</p>
<hr />
<div>Shells can be made into bolts? Are we sure? --Gotthard 12:41, 19 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:They cant.--[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 13:05, 19 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Creating shell ==<br />
<br />
I keep losing dwarves to moods when they can't get any shell and they go nuts.<br />
<br />
I have a lot of raw turtles in barrels. I also have tons of other foods. How do I get my dwarves to eat the turtles in particular and create shells?<br />
<br />
:Dwarves won't eat RAW turtles, or any other raw fish. Queue up the "Process raw fish" task at a [[fishery]] to make them edible, and you'll have shell in no time. Also, remember to sign your posts on these Talk pages, yes? Yes. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 17:12, 20 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:On a slightly related note, I wish there was a way to designate which foods should be eaten. Having the dwarves eat the meat I'm trying to cook, but not the turtles I'd like the shells from is a pain. --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 17:39, 20 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
::Get a legendary cook who can cook the meat faster than you can produce it.[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 20:10, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::This isn't terribly useful. The dwarves have the same issue, only they eat the cooked meals instead of the turtle. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 22:58, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::Forbid all other foods.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 04:38, 27 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::You can't cook forbidden foods, though. <_< --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:46, 27 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::a) Do not cook the Turtle. Cooking destroys the shell and bones. b) The way I handle it ... b1) bring some turtle on embark. b2) upon arrival, go to Stocks (z), select Kitchen, and set it to NOT allow cooking turtle. b3) Create a stockpile outside the fortress, to hold (unprocessed fish:) raw turtle and (meat:) Turtle, and optionally cave lobster. b4) next to the kitchen, create a storage area for all other types of fish. b5) Create a stockpile inside for refuse: Bone, Shell, Skull. Dwarves will then sometimes grab a prepared turtle or lobster to eat, which will leave bone and shell behind. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 09:14, 13 November 2008 (EST)</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Shell&diff=3248240d Talk:Shell2008-11-13T14:14:11Z<p>Samyotix: /* Creating shell */</p>
<hr />
<div>Shells can be made into bolts? Are we sure? --Gotthard 12:41, 19 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:They cant.--[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 13:05, 19 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Creating shell ==<br />
<br />
I keep losing dwarves to moods when they can't get any shell and they go nuts.<br />
<br />
I have a lot of raw turtles in barrels. I also have tons of other foods. How do I get my dwarves to eat the turtles in particular and create shells?<br />
<br />
:Dwarves won't eat RAW turtles, or any other raw fish. Queue up the "Process raw fish" task at a [[fishery]] to make them edible, and you'll have shell in no time. Also, remember to sign your posts on these Talk pages, yes? Yes. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 17:12, 20 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:On a slightly related note, I wish there was a way to designate which foods should be eaten. Having the dwarves eat the meat I'm trying to cook, but not the turtles I'd like the shells from is a pain. --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 17:39, 20 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
::Get a legendary cook who can cook the meat faster than you can produce it.[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 20:10, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::This isn't terribly useful. The dwarves have the same issue, only they eat the cooked meals instead of the turtle. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 22:58, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::Forbid all other foods.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 04:38, 27 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::You can't cook forbidden foods, though. <_< --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:46, 27 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::a) Do not cook the Turtle. Cooking destroys the shell and bones. b) The way I handle it ... b1) bring some turtle on embark. b2) upon arrival, go zo Stocks (z), selct kitchen, and set Turtle to cook: NO. b3) Create a stockpile outside the fortress, to hold (unprocessed fish) raw turtle and (meat) Turtle, and optionally cave lobster. b4) next to the kitchen, create a storage area for all other types of fish. b5) Create a stockpile for refuse: Bone, Shell, Skull. Dwarves will then sometimes grab a prepared turtle or lobster to eat, which will leave bone and shell behind. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 09:14, 13 November 2008 (EST)</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Shell&diff=3248140d Talk:Shell2008-11-13T14:14:03Z<p>Samyotix: /* Creating shell */</p>
<hr />
<div>Shells can be made into bolts? Are we sure? --Gotthard 12:41, 19 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:They cant.--[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 13:05, 19 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Creating shell ==<br />
<br />
I keep losing dwarves to moods when they can't get any shell and they go nuts.<br />
<br />
I have a lot of raw turtles in barrels. I also have tons of other foods. How do I get my dwarves to eat the turtles in particular and create shells?<br />
<br />
:Dwarves won't eat RAW turtles, or any other raw fish. Queue up the "Process raw fish" task at a [[fishery]] to make them edible, and you'll have shell in no time. Also, remember to sign your posts on these Talk pages, yes? Yes. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 17:12, 20 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:On a slightly related note, I wish there was a way to designate which foods should be eaten. Having the dwarves eat the meat I'm trying to cook, but not the turtles I'd like the shells from is a pain. --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 17:39, 20 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
::Get a legendary cook who can cook the meat faster than you can produce it.[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 20:10, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::This isn't terribly useful. The dwarves have the same issue, only they eat the cooked meals instead of the turtle. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 22:58, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::Forbid all other foods.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 04:38, 27 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::You can't cook forbidden foods, though. <_< --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:46, 27 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::a) Do not cook the Turtle. Cooking destroys the shell and bones. b) The way I handle it ... b1) bring some turtle on embark. b2) upon arrival, go zo Stocks (z), selct kitchen, and set Turtle to cook: NO. b3) Create a stockpile outside the fortress, to hold (unprocessed fish) raw turtle and (meat) Turtle, and optionally cave lobster. b4) next to the kitchen, create a storage area for all other types of fish. b5) Create a stockpile for refuse: Bone, Shell, Skull. Dwarves will then sometimes grab a prepared turtle or lobster to eat, which will leave bone and shell behind.</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Trading&diff=3600740d Talk:Trading2008-06-09T18:51:11Z<p>Samyotix: /* Offerings */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Consolidation of Trading, Trade Depot, Caravans, and Wagon ==<br />
<br />
This needs wikification with some amounts of rewriting. I will give it a go. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 06:51, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Yea thanks, this is my first try at a wiki-page. sorry if it was crappy... --[[User:CombatWombat|CombatWombat]] 06:42, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Nah, there's no such thing as a crappy wiki edit, when its got content in it. Just remember to be bold, otherwise there would be nothing here. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 07:29, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Well this thread's a little old, but I re-wrote and consolidated some more information on this page. There was also some discussion of this on [[Talk:Caravan#Merge_this_into_Trading]]. If you don't approve, please don't just revert it, I organized and cleaned up a lot of the scattered info, so at the very least it should be split from where it is now on the Trading page to where it should ultimately go. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 02:48, 2 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Extraction from different articles ==<br />
<br />
All the information on trading seems quite scattered now (Trade depot, Caravan, Dwarf, Elf, Human etc), and as most stuff is well written I think we should merge the trade sections to this one page and leave behind only refecences. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 08:29, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:Looking good, is there a 'your first caravan'-type tutorial anywhere we could link to? Something with advice on the sort of goods to prepare and what to buy for the first winter, with new players in mind. I'll try and find one somewhere. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:07, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
: Done, linked to the trade section in the new player guide. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:11, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Done++ Someone else finish merging the information from Caravans into the page. Make sure to get that awesome Elf trader image. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:10, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Haulers? ==<br />
In my experience the "bring item to depot" tasks were performed by any dwarf, even without any hauling labors enabled. Can also be my imagination. I cannot check it for now, so, anyone, please verify.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:49, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:That's correct, as many times my pure crafters will stop crafting to haul goods to the depot, despite having only one or two production labors enabled. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:41, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Is this similar to plant gathering where even non-working nobles and children will do it, or is it limted to any regular dwarf regardless of labour? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 19:04, 31 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:::Yes, nobles and children will haul stuff to the depot. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:19, 1 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Moving goods on afterwards ==<br />
<br />
To get things ''out'' of the depot.... do I have to order them removed while the caravan is still around?<br />
I have starving dwarves... and food going rotten in the depot![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:36, 5 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:AFAIK, no. in my experience, anything bought is treated as like it's just lying there, not being traded.<br />
Well, yes and no. Once trading is finished dwarves will start bringing the bought goods in while the caravan still is there. But you cant 'order' them to per se ;) Your own stuff that wasnt sold however will remain in depot till the caravan leaves. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:45, 13 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::Unless you go back into the {{k|g}}oods menu at the Depot and unmark them for trading. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:25, 14 February 2008 (EST)<br />
I've a question in the same vein: I just traded for a truckload of goods, but the traders didn't even leave them in the depot! They just carried my goods out with them. Were my dwarves supposed to carry all of the goods back earlier? --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 14:08, 16 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Duplicate Page?==<br />
The page "Caravan" has very similar information, though this "trading" page seems more complete.[Samyotix]<br />
<br />
== culling on mandates ==<br />
<br />
what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== "everything is ruined now" ==<br />
I just accidentally tried to trade the elves a wooden bin full of stone goods. Now ALL my stone goods, including ones not actually in that bin, are unacceptable. I ended up just seizing the rope I needed, but I'd like to know if this is a glitch, or if I just made them too angry to trade. <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] ([[User talk:Shadow archmagi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Shadow archmagi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
:It's not a glitch. Elves refuse to trade at all after you give them even a single wood or animal product. After you do that the trade option is locked until they come back to trade next year. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:52, 27 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:The wooden bin told the elves you hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate animals. Don't trade dead trees or dead animal parts to elves. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 13:18, 22 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Depot Access==<br />
Not a single square on my map is accessible by the caravan. What should i do? --[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
EDIT: My bad. It seems that it shows every square as inaccessible if the depot is not fully constructed--[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Trading Margins ==<br />
In regards to this submission:<br />
"If you have a somewhat experienced broker or you already raised the traiders mood to pleased or above you can usually trade with marginal profit for them and you can also safely ignore their counteroffers, offering the same trade a second time, successfully."<br />
<br />
You do realize that when they make a counteroffer they automatically add those counteroffer goods to the pot, right? Just making sure. Are you saying you go back through and remove each item their counteroffer added to your side of the deal? Seems much simpler to just stick to the ~50% rule of thumb, especially at the beginning with low skills and again once you reach the point of having so many trade goods that you can easily buy everything you need from each caravan with plenty of goods left over. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 14:55, 22 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
: Yes, exactly. Whenever i get a counteroffer I remove all items from the list they added until their profit is back to what i deem fit, sometimes leaving a low value item, say, 50☼, they chose, if I wanted to trade it anyway. Since this is not a beginners guide page, I think it's wrong to advise people to a 50% profit margin that is much higher than necessary. Once the traders are happy, they will even agree to trading an anvil for an anvil. I tested this extensively because usually i want them to leave early and thus try to make them angry. Almost impossible. We could however add smth about the (suspected) advantages of having high export totals like bigger caravans, more immigrants, arrival of king. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 06:39, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
::The 50% rule of thumb is a good starting point either way. "Advanced" page or not, before I posted that, there was no guidance on what profit margin the visiting traders would generally accept, so that people were left to find out the hard way.<br />
::Going back through a long list of your trade goods to hunt down and remove the items which the visiting trader added to the offer seems like a bit of a waste of time to me, unless you just have very few trade goods or a really tight budget at your fortress.<br />
::As for being able to get away with lower margins once the trader is happy, that is definitely useful knowledge and could be expanded upon. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 12:52, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
There is no way to refuse a counter-offer, is there? The only option is to hit {{k|Enter}}, and the "goods are added to the pot" as you say ... correct? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 09:07, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Correct, however, you're free to simply remove the additionally requested items and re-offer. In the case of a new trader in his first few trade sessions, this will likely work, as he gained experience (probably a LOT) just by offering. Even if it doesn't, as long as you don't repeat it many times (4+ I'd say) then there's no real risk of driving them off. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:16, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Goblins butchering my caravans. ==<br />
<br />
Every time I trade with the caravans, a goblin ambush comes and the merchants are all killed. Ive taken new measures to prevent this, but will merchants come back to trade? and what effect does their death have? <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Wafl|Wafl]] ([[User talk:Wafl|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Wafl|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
<br />
My caravans get shot up by goblins all the time. Then you get to loot their stuff. The caravans always seem to come back next year. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 22:49, 24 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Trading flowchart ==<br />
<br />
Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)<br />
<br />
Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right<br />
{|cellpadding="2" border="1"<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})<br />
|-<br />
| Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})<br />
Check green area reaches edge of map<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map<br />
"A--- caravan from --- has arrived."<br />
|-<br />
| Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot<br />
"Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods"<br />
|-<br />
| Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded <br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]<br />
<br />
:Ask and ye shall receive<br />
{|cellspacing=0 align=center<br />
|-<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Arrive at fortress location<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Create Goods<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Build Depot<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Check Depot is accessible<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Set goods to be traded<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan to arrive at depot and merchants to finish unloading<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for goods to be hauled<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Request the trader at the depot and turn off his other labours<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Trade<br />
|}<br />
You'll note I shifted the location of requesting trader --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Offerings ==<br />
<br />
Can anyone expound on the function of {{K|o}}ffering goods as gifts to traders? I tried giving the elves about 1000 worth of tchotchkes, and the next year they showed up with more goods than I've ever seen -- lots of caged animals, whereas I usually get very few, and so on. However, other times I gave them more and it seemed nothing changed. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:01, 7 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Gifts to the traders (and large trading profits) should increase the number of traders / wagons you get the following year, so they'll bring more stuff to trade. AFAIK no-one knows about the numbers for sure though. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 14:51, 9 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Add hint: "Buy everything ... in case you get a strange mood"? ==<br />
<br />
Personally I've found it very useful to do this:<br />
<br />
When traders arrive, <br />
a) optionally check stocks.<br />
b) Buy everything you can't make or harvest in your own fort.<br />
c) In the diplomat meeting, order everything you can't make or harvest.<br />
<br />
To be specific: Thread, Silk, cloth, metal bars (anything else?).<br />
<br />
The reason: <br />
a) Dwarves sometimes demand items out of some metal or alloy they like.<br />
b) Dwarves who are possessed or get a strange mood will sometimes demand silk or cloth.<br />
<br />
Players who proactively (harr!) seek to stock materials for possible moods will IMO have much less of a problem with dwarves going insane from moods. However I couldn't figure out where (or if) I should insert that, so I'll just add this idea (adding a hint: buy everything you don't have) to the discussion.<br />
<br />
Also, as far as I know, possessed/moody dwarves in the current version (27.176.38c) do not demand specific items. Rather, they want a) any metal bar b) any metal ore c) Silk d) Cloth e) wood f) raw gem g) any stone ... that was it, right?. So probably such a hint could read something like:<br />
<br />
"NOTE: If your fortress cannot harvest silk, it would be useful to order some from the caravans. If you do not have a cloth industry yet, maybe order some cloth as well. Having a small stock of materials which you are not actively using in your economy - e.g. GCS silk - will increase the likelihood of your fortress gaining an artifact from any mood or possession."<br />
[[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 14:49, 9 June 2008 (EDT)</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Trading&diff=3600640d Talk:Trading2008-06-09T18:49:21Z<p>Samyotix: /* Add hint: "Buy everything ... in case you get a strange mood"? */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Consolidation of Trading, Trade Depot, Caravans, and Wagon ==<br />
<br />
This needs wikification with some amounts of rewriting. I will give it a go. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 06:51, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Yea thanks, this is my first try at a wiki-page. sorry if it was crappy... --[[User:CombatWombat|CombatWombat]] 06:42, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Nah, there's no such thing as a crappy wiki edit, when its got content in it. Just remember to be bold, otherwise there would be nothing here. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 07:29, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Well this thread's a little old, but I re-wrote and consolidated some more information on this page. There was also some discussion of this on [[Talk:Caravan#Merge_this_into_Trading]]. If you don't approve, please don't just revert it, I organized and cleaned up a lot of the scattered info, so at the very least it should be split from where it is now on the Trading page to where it should ultimately go. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 02:48, 2 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Extraction from different articles ==<br />
<br />
All the information on trading seems quite scattered now (Trade depot, Caravan, Dwarf, Elf, Human etc), and as most stuff is well written I think we should merge the trade sections to this one page and leave behind only refecences. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 08:29, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:Looking good, is there a 'your first caravan'-type tutorial anywhere we could link to? Something with advice on the sort of goods to prepare and what to buy for the first winter, with new players in mind. I'll try and find one somewhere. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:07, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
: Done, linked to the trade section in the new player guide. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:11, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Done++ Someone else finish merging the information from Caravans into the page. Make sure to get that awesome Elf trader image. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:10, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Haulers? ==<br />
In my experience the "bring item to depot" tasks were performed by any dwarf, even without any hauling labors enabled. Can also be my imagination. I cannot check it for now, so, anyone, please verify.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:49, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:That's correct, as many times my pure crafters will stop crafting to haul goods to the depot, despite having only one or two production labors enabled. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:41, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Is this similar to plant gathering where even non-working nobles and children will do it, or is it limted to any regular dwarf regardless of labour? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 19:04, 31 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:::Yes, nobles and children will haul stuff to the depot. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:19, 1 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Moving goods on afterwards ==<br />
<br />
To get things ''out'' of the depot.... do I have to order them removed while the caravan is still around?<br />
I have starving dwarves... and food going rotten in the depot![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:36, 5 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:AFAIK, no. in my experience, anything bought is treated as like it's just lying there, not being traded.<br />
Well, yes and no. Once trading is finished dwarves will start bringing the bought goods in while the caravan still is there. But you cant 'order' them to per se ;) Your own stuff that wasnt sold however will remain in depot till the caravan leaves. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:45, 13 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::Unless you go back into the {{k|g}}oods menu at the Depot and unmark them for trading. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:25, 14 February 2008 (EST)<br />
I've a question in the same vein: I just traded for a truckload of goods, but the traders didn't even leave them in the depot! They just carried my goods out with them. Were my dwarves supposed to carry all of the goods back earlier? --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 14:08, 16 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Duplicate Page?==<br />
The page "Caravan" has very similar information, though this "trading" page seems more complete.[Samyotix]<br />
<br />
== culling on mandates ==<br />
<br />
what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== "everything is ruined now" ==<br />
I just accidentally tried to trade the elves a wooden bin full of stone goods. Now ALL my stone goods, including ones not actually in that bin, are unacceptable. I ended up just seizing the rope I needed, but I'd like to know if this is a glitch, or if I just made them too angry to trade. <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] ([[User talk:Shadow archmagi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Shadow archmagi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
:It's not a glitch. Elves refuse to trade at all after you give them even a single wood or animal product. After you do that the trade option is locked until they come back to trade next year. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:52, 27 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:The wooden bin told the elves you hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate animals. Don't trade dead trees or dead animal parts to elves. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 13:18, 22 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Depot Access==<br />
Not a single square on my map is accessible by the caravan. What should i do? --[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
EDIT: My bad. It seems that it shows every square as inaccessible if the depot is not fully constructed--[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Trading Margins ==<br />
In regards to this submission:<br />
"If you have a somewhat experienced broker or you already raised the traiders mood to pleased or above you can usually trade with marginal profit for them and you can also safely ignore their counteroffers, offering the same trade a second time, successfully."<br />
<br />
You do realize that when they make a counteroffer they automatically add those counteroffer goods to the pot, right? Just making sure. Are you saying you go back through and remove each item their counteroffer added to your side of the deal? Seems much simpler to just stick to the ~50% rule of thumb, especially at the beginning with low skills and again once you reach the point of having so many trade goods that you can easily buy everything you need from each caravan with plenty of goods left over. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 14:55, 22 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
: Yes, exactly. Whenever i get a counteroffer I remove all items from the list they added until their profit is back to what i deem fit, sometimes leaving a low value item, say, 50☼, they chose, if I wanted to trade it anyway. Since this is not a beginners guide page, I think it's wrong to advise people to a 50% profit margin that is much higher than necessary. Once the traders are happy, they will even agree to trading an anvil for an anvil. I tested this extensively because usually i want them to leave early and thus try to make them angry. Almost impossible. We could however add smth about the (suspected) advantages of having high export totals like bigger caravans, more immigrants, arrival of king. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 06:39, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
::The 50% rule of thumb is a good starting point either way. "Advanced" page or not, before I posted that, there was no guidance on what profit margin the visiting traders would generally accept, so that people were left to find out the hard way.<br />
::Going back through a long list of your trade goods to hunt down and remove the items which the visiting trader added to the offer seems like a bit of a waste of time to me, unless you just have very few trade goods or a really tight budget at your fortress.<br />
::As for being able to get away with lower margins once the trader is happy, that is definitely useful knowledge and could be expanded upon. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 12:52, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
There is no way to refuse a counter-offer, is there? The only option is to hit {{k|Enter}}, and the "goods are added to the pot" as you say ... correct? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 09:07, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Correct, however, you're free to simply remove the additionally requested items and re-offer. In the case of a new trader in his first few trade sessions, this will likely work, as he gained experience (probably a LOT) just by offering. Even if it doesn't, as long as you don't repeat it many times (4+ I'd say) then there's no real risk of driving them off. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:16, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Goblins butchering my caravans. ==<br />
<br />
Every time I trade with the caravans, a goblin ambush comes and the merchants are all killed. Ive taken new measures to prevent this, but will merchants come back to trade? and what effect does their death have? <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Wafl|Wafl]] ([[User talk:Wafl|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Wafl|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
<br />
My caravans get shot up by goblins all the time. Then you get to loot their stuff. The caravans always seem to come back next year. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 22:49, 24 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Trading flowchart ==<br />
<br />
Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)<br />
<br />
Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right<br />
{|cellpadding="2" border="1"<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})<br />
|-<br />
| Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})<br />
Check green area reaches edge of map<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map<br />
"A--- caravan from --- has arrived."<br />
|-<br />
| Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot<br />
"Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods"<br />
|-<br />
| Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded <br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]<br />
<br />
:Ask and ye shall receive<br />
{|cellspacing=0 align=center<br />
|-<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Arrive at fortress location<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Create Goods<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Build Depot<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Check Depot is accessible<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Set goods to be traded<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan to arrive at depot and merchants to finish unloading<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for goods to be hauled<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Request the trader at the depot and turn off his other labours<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Trade<br />
|}<br />
You'll note I shifted the location of requesting trader --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Offerings ==<br />
<br />
Can anyone expound on the function of {{K|o}}ffering goods as gifts to traders? I tried giving the elves about 1000 worth of tchotchkes, and the next year they showed up with more goods than I've ever seen -- lots of caged animals, whereas I usually get very few, and so on. However, other times I gave them more and it seemed nothing changed. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:01, 7 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Add hint: "Buy everything ... in case you get a strange mood"? ==<br />
<br />
Personally I've found it very useful to do this:<br />
<br />
When traders arrive, <br />
a) optionally check stocks.<br />
b) Buy everything you can't make or harvest in your own fort.<br />
c) In the diplomat meeting, order everything you can't make or harvest.<br />
<br />
To be specific: Thread, Silk, cloth, metal bars (anything else?).<br />
<br />
The reason: <br />
a) Dwarves sometimes demand items out of some metal or alloy they like.<br />
b) Dwarves who are possessed or get a strange mood will sometimes demand silk or cloth.<br />
<br />
Players who proactively (harr!) seek to stock materials for possible moods will IMO have much less of a problem with dwarves going insane from moods. However I couldn't figure out where (or if) I should insert that, so I'll just add this idea (adding a hint: buy everything you don't have) to the discussion.<br />
<br />
Also, as far as I know, possessed/moody dwarves in the current version (27.176.38c) do not demand specific items. Rather, they want a) any metal bar b) any metal ore c) Silk d) Cloth e) wood f) raw gem g) any stone ... that was it, right?. So probably such a hint could read something like:<br />
<br />
"NOTE: If your fortress cannot harvest silk, it would be useful to order some from the caravans. If you do not have a cloth industry yet, maybe order some cloth as well. Having a small stock of materials which you are not actively using in your economy - e.g. GCS silk - will increase the likelihood of your fortress gaining an artifact from any mood or possession."<br />
[[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 14:49, 9 June 2008 (EDT)</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Trading&diff=3600540d Talk:Trading2008-06-09T18:48:29Z<p>Samyotix: /* Add hint: "Buy everything ... in case you get a strange mood"? */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Consolidation of Trading, Trade Depot, Caravans, and Wagon ==<br />
<br />
This needs wikification with some amounts of rewriting. I will give it a go. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 06:51, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Yea thanks, this is my first try at a wiki-page. sorry if it was crappy... --[[User:CombatWombat|CombatWombat]] 06:42, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Nah, there's no such thing as a crappy wiki edit, when its got content in it. Just remember to be bold, otherwise there would be nothing here. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 07:29, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Well this thread's a little old, but I re-wrote and consolidated some more information on this page. There was also some discussion of this on [[Talk:Caravan#Merge_this_into_Trading]]. If you don't approve, please don't just revert it, I organized and cleaned up a lot of the scattered info, so at the very least it should be split from where it is now on the Trading page to where it should ultimately go. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 02:48, 2 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Extraction from different articles ==<br />
<br />
All the information on trading seems quite scattered now (Trade depot, Caravan, Dwarf, Elf, Human etc), and as most stuff is well written I think we should merge the trade sections to this one page and leave behind only refecences. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 08:29, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:Looking good, is there a 'your first caravan'-type tutorial anywhere we could link to? Something with advice on the sort of goods to prepare and what to buy for the first winter, with new players in mind. I'll try and find one somewhere. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:07, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
: Done, linked to the trade section in the new player guide. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:11, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Done++ Someone else finish merging the information from Caravans into the page. Make sure to get that awesome Elf trader image. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:10, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Haulers? ==<br />
In my experience the "bring item to depot" tasks were performed by any dwarf, even without any hauling labors enabled. Can also be my imagination. I cannot check it for now, so, anyone, please verify.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:49, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:That's correct, as many times my pure crafters will stop crafting to haul goods to the depot, despite having only one or two production labors enabled. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:41, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Is this similar to plant gathering where even non-working nobles and children will do it, or is it limted to any regular dwarf regardless of labour? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 19:04, 31 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:::Yes, nobles and children will haul stuff to the depot. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:19, 1 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Moving goods on afterwards ==<br />
<br />
To get things ''out'' of the depot.... do I have to order them removed while the caravan is still around?<br />
I have starving dwarves... and food going rotten in the depot![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:36, 5 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:AFAIK, no. in my experience, anything bought is treated as like it's just lying there, not being traded.<br />
Well, yes and no. Once trading is finished dwarves will start bringing the bought goods in while the caravan still is there. But you cant 'order' them to per se ;) Your own stuff that wasnt sold however will remain in depot till the caravan leaves. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:45, 13 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::Unless you go back into the {{k|g}}oods menu at the Depot and unmark them for trading. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:25, 14 February 2008 (EST)<br />
I've a question in the same vein: I just traded for a truckload of goods, but the traders didn't even leave them in the depot! They just carried my goods out with them. Were my dwarves supposed to carry all of the goods back earlier? --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 14:08, 16 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Duplicate Page?==<br />
The page "Caravan" has very similar information, though this "trading" page seems more complete.[Samyotix]<br />
<br />
== culling on mandates ==<br />
<br />
what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== "everything is ruined now" ==<br />
I just accidentally tried to trade the elves a wooden bin full of stone goods. Now ALL my stone goods, including ones not actually in that bin, are unacceptable. I ended up just seizing the rope I needed, but I'd like to know if this is a glitch, or if I just made them too angry to trade. <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] ([[User talk:Shadow archmagi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Shadow archmagi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
:It's not a glitch. Elves refuse to trade at all after you give them even a single wood or animal product. After you do that the trade option is locked until they come back to trade next year. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:52, 27 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:The wooden bin told the elves you hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate animals. Don't trade dead trees or dead animal parts to elves. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 13:18, 22 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Depot Access==<br />
Not a single square on my map is accessible by the caravan. What should i do? --[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
EDIT: My bad. It seems that it shows every square as inaccessible if the depot is not fully constructed--[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Trading Margins ==<br />
In regards to this submission:<br />
"If you have a somewhat experienced broker or you already raised the traiders mood to pleased or above you can usually trade with marginal profit for them and you can also safely ignore their counteroffers, offering the same trade a second time, successfully."<br />
<br />
You do realize that when they make a counteroffer they automatically add those counteroffer goods to the pot, right? Just making sure. Are you saying you go back through and remove each item their counteroffer added to your side of the deal? Seems much simpler to just stick to the ~50% rule of thumb, especially at the beginning with low skills and again once you reach the point of having so many trade goods that you can easily buy everything you need from each caravan with plenty of goods left over. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 14:55, 22 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
: Yes, exactly. Whenever i get a counteroffer I remove all items from the list they added until their profit is back to what i deem fit, sometimes leaving a low value item, say, 50☼, they chose, if I wanted to trade it anyway. Since this is not a beginners guide page, I think it's wrong to advise people to a 50% profit margin that is much higher than necessary. Once the traders are happy, they will even agree to trading an anvil for an anvil. I tested this extensively because usually i want them to leave early and thus try to make them angry. Almost impossible. We could however add smth about the (suspected) advantages of having high export totals like bigger caravans, more immigrants, arrival of king. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 06:39, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
::The 50% rule of thumb is a good starting point either way. "Advanced" page or not, before I posted that, there was no guidance on what profit margin the visiting traders would generally accept, so that people were left to find out the hard way.<br />
::Going back through a long list of your trade goods to hunt down and remove the items which the visiting trader added to the offer seems like a bit of a waste of time to me, unless you just have very few trade goods or a really tight budget at your fortress.<br />
::As for being able to get away with lower margins once the trader is happy, that is definitely useful knowledge and could be expanded upon. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 12:52, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
There is no way to refuse a counter-offer, is there? The only option is to hit {{k|Enter}}, and the "goods are added to the pot" as you say ... correct? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 09:07, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Correct, however, you're free to simply remove the additionally requested items and re-offer. In the case of a new trader in his first few trade sessions, this will likely work, as he gained experience (probably a LOT) just by offering. Even if it doesn't, as long as you don't repeat it many times (4+ I'd say) then there's no real risk of driving them off. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:16, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Goblins butchering my caravans. ==<br />
<br />
Every time I trade with the caravans, a goblin ambush comes and the merchants are all killed. Ive taken new measures to prevent this, but will merchants come back to trade? and what effect does their death have? <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Wafl|Wafl]] ([[User talk:Wafl|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Wafl|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
<br />
My caravans get shot up by goblins all the time. Then you get to loot their stuff. The caravans always seem to come back next year. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 22:49, 24 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Trading flowchart ==<br />
<br />
Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)<br />
<br />
Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right<br />
{|cellpadding="2" border="1"<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})<br />
|-<br />
| Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})<br />
Check green area reaches edge of map<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map<br />
"A--- caravan from --- has arrived."<br />
|-<br />
| Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot<br />
"Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods"<br />
|-<br />
| Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded <br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]<br />
<br />
:Ask and ye shall receive<br />
{|cellspacing=0 align=center<br />
|-<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Arrive at fortress location<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Create Goods<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Build Depot<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Check Depot is accessible<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Set goods to be traded<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan to arrive at depot and merchants to finish unloading<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for goods to be hauled<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Request the trader at the depot and turn off his other labours<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Trade<br />
|}<br />
You'll note I shifted the location of requesting trader --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Offerings ==<br />
<br />
Can anyone expound on the function of {{K|o}}ffering goods as gifts to traders? I tried giving the elves about 1000 worth of tchotchkes, and the next year they showed up with more goods than I've ever seen -- lots of caged animals, whereas I usually get very few, and so on. However, other times I gave them more and it seemed nothing changed. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:01, 7 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Add hint: "Buy everything ... in case you get a strange mood"? ==<br />
<br />
Personally I've found it very useful to do this:<br />
<br />
When traders arrive, <br />
a) optionally check stocks.<br />
b) Buy everything you can't make or harvest in your own fort.<br />
c) In the diplomat meeting, order everything you can't make or harvest.<br />
<br />
To be specific: Thread, Silk, cloth, metal bars (anything else?).<br />
<br />
The reason: <br />
a) Dwarves sometimes demand items out of some metal or alloy they like.<br />
b) Dwarves who are possessed or get a strange mood will sometimes demand silk or cloth.<br />
<br />
Players who proactively (harr!) seek to stock materials for possible moods will IMO have much less of a problem with dwarves going insane from moods. However I couldn't figure out where (or if) I should insert that, so I'll just add this idea (adding a hint: buy everything you don't have) to the discussion.<br />
<br />
Also, as far as I know, possessed/moody dwarves in the current version (27.176.38c) do not demand specific items. Rather, they want a) any metal bar b) any metal ore c) Silk d) Cloth e) wood f) raw gem g) any stone ... that was it, right?. So probably such a hint could read something like:<br />
<br />
"NOTE: If your fortress cannot harvest silk, it would be useful to order some from the caravans. If you do not have a cloth industry yet, maybe order some cloth as well. Having a small stock of materials which you are not actively using in your economy - e.g. GCS silk - will increase the likelihood of your fortress gaining an artifact from any mood or possession."</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Trading&diff=3600440d Talk:Trading2008-06-09T18:47:07Z<p>Samyotix: /* Add hint: "Buy everything ... in case you get a strange mood"? */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Consolidation of Trading, Trade Depot, Caravans, and Wagon ==<br />
<br />
This needs wikification with some amounts of rewriting. I will give it a go. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 06:51, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Yea thanks, this is my first try at a wiki-page. sorry if it was crappy... --[[User:CombatWombat|CombatWombat]] 06:42, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Nah, there's no such thing as a crappy wiki edit, when its got content in it. Just remember to be bold, otherwise there would be nothing here. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 07:29, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Well this thread's a little old, but I re-wrote and consolidated some more information on this page. There was also some discussion of this on [[Talk:Caravan#Merge_this_into_Trading]]. If you don't approve, please don't just revert it, I organized and cleaned up a lot of the scattered info, so at the very least it should be split from where it is now on the Trading page to where it should ultimately go. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 02:48, 2 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Extraction from different articles ==<br />
<br />
All the information on trading seems quite scattered now (Trade depot, Caravan, Dwarf, Elf, Human etc), and as most stuff is well written I think we should merge the trade sections to this one page and leave behind only refecences. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 08:29, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:Looking good, is there a 'your first caravan'-type tutorial anywhere we could link to? Something with advice on the sort of goods to prepare and what to buy for the first winter, with new players in mind. I'll try and find one somewhere. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:07, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
: Done, linked to the trade section in the new player guide. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:11, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Done++ Someone else finish merging the information from Caravans into the page. Make sure to get that awesome Elf trader image. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:10, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Haulers? ==<br />
In my experience the "bring item to depot" tasks were performed by any dwarf, even without any hauling labors enabled. Can also be my imagination. I cannot check it for now, so, anyone, please verify.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:49, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:That's correct, as many times my pure crafters will stop crafting to haul goods to the depot, despite having only one or two production labors enabled. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:41, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Is this similar to plant gathering where even non-working nobles and children will do it, or is it limted to any regular dwarf regardless of labour? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 19:04, 31 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:::Yes, nobles and children will haul stuff to the depot. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:19, 1 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Moving goods on afterwards ==<br />
<br />
To get things ''out'' of the depot.... do I have to order them removed while the caravan is still around?<br />
I have starving dwarves... and food going rotten in the depot![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:36, 5 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:AFAIK, no. in my experience, anything bought is treated as like it's just lying there, not being traded.<br />
Well, yes and no. Once trading is finished dwarves will start bringing the bought goods in while the caravan still is there. But you cant 'order' them to per se ;) Your own stuff that wasnt sold however will remain in depot till the caravan leaves. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:45, 13 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::Unless you go back into the {{k|g}}oods menu at the Depot and unmark them for trading. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:25, 14 February 2008 (EST)<br />
I've a question in the same vein: I just traded for a truckload of goods, but the traders didn't even leave them in the depot! They just carried my goods out with them. Were my dwarves supposed to carry all of the goods back earlier? --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 14:08, 16 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Duplicate Page?==<br />
The page "Caravan" has very similar information, though this "trading" page seems more complete.[Samyotix]<br />
<br />
== culling on mandates ==<br />
<br />
what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== "everything is ruined now" ==<br />
I just accidentally tried to trade the elves a wooden bin full of stone goods. Now ALL my stone goods, including ones not actually in that bin, are unacceptable. I ended up just seizing the rope I needed, but I'd like to know if this is a glitch, or if I just made them too angry to trade. <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] ([[User talk:Shadow archmagi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Shadow archmagi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
:It's not a glitch. Elves refuse to trade at all after you give them even a single wood or animal product. After you do that the trade option is locked until they come back to trade next year. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:52, 27 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:The wooden bin told the elves you hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate animals. Don't trade dead trees or dead animal parts to elves. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 13:18, 22 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Depot Access==<br />
Not a single square on my map is accessible by the caravan. What should i do? --[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
EDIT: My bad. It seems that it shows every square as inaccessible if the depot is not fully constructed--[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Trading Margins ==<br />
In regards to this submission:<br />
"If you have a somewhat experienced broker or you already raised the traiders mood to pleased or above you can usually trade with marginal profit for them and you can also safely ignore their counteroffers, offering the same trade a second time, successfully."<br />
<br />
You do realize that when they make a counteroffer they automatically add those counteroffer goods to the pot, right? Just making sure. Are you saying you go back through and remove each item their counteroffer added to your side of the deal? Seems much simpler to just stick to the ~50% rule of thumb, especially at the beginning with low skills and again once you reach the point of having so many trade goods that you can easily buy everything you need from each caravan with plenty of goods left over. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 14:55, 22 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
: Yes, exactly. Whenever i get a counteroffer I remove all items from the list they added until their profit is back to what i deem fit, sometimes leaving a low value item, say, 50☼, they chose, if I wanted to trade it anyway. Since this is not a beginners guide page, I think it's wrong to advise people to a 50% profit margin that is much higher than necessary. Once the traders are happy, they will even agree to trading an anvil for an anvil. I tested this extensively because usually i want them to leave early and thus try to make them angry. Almost impossible. We could however add smth about the (suspected) advantages of having high export totals like bigger caravans, more immigrants, arrival of king. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 06:39, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
::The 50% rule of thumb is a good starting point either way. "Advanced" page or not, before I posted that, there was no guidance on what profit margin the visiting traders would generally accept, so that people were left to find out the hard way.<br />
::Going back through a long list of your trade goods to hunt down and remove the items which the visiting trader added to the offer seems like a bit of a waste of time to me, unless you just have very few trade goods or a really tight budget at your fortress.<br />
::As for being able to get away with lower margins once the trader is happy, that is definitely useful knowledge and could be expanded upon. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 12:52, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
There is no way to refuse a counter-offer, is there? The only option is to hit {{k|Enter}}, and the "goods are added to the pot" as you say ... correct? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 09:07, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Correct, however, you're free to simply remove the additionally requested items and re-offer. In the case of a new trader in his first few trade sessions, this will likely work, as he gained experience (probably a LOT) just by offering. Even if it doesn't, as long as you don't repeat it many times (4+ I'd say) then there's no real risk of driving them off. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:16, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Goblins butchering my caravans. ==<br />
<br />
Every time I trade with the caravans, a goblin ambush comes and the merchants are all killed. Ive taken new measures to prevent this, but will merchants come back to trade? and what effect does their death have? <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Wafl|Wafl]] ([[User talk:Wafl|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Wafl|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
<br />
My caravans get shot up by goblins all the time. Then you get to loot their stuff. The caravans always seem to come back next year. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 22:49, 24 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Trading flowchart ==<br />
<br />
Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)<br />
<br />
Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right<br />
{|cellpadding="2" border="1"<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})<br />
|-<br />
| Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})<br />
Check green area reaches edge of map<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map<br />
"A--- caravan from --- has arrived."<br />
|-<br />
| Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot<br />
"Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods"<br />
|-<br />
| Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded <br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]<br />
<br />
:Ask and ye shall receive<br />
{|cellspacing=0 align=center<br />
|-<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Arrive at fortress location<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Create Goods<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Build Depot<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Check Depot is accessible<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Set goods to be traded<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan to arrive at depot and merchants to finish unloading<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for goods to be hauled<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Request the trader at the depot and turn off his other labours<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Trade<br />
|}<br />
You'll note I shifted the location of requesting trader --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Offerings ==<br />
<br />
Can anyone expound on the function of {{K|o}}ffering goods as gifts to traders? I tried giving the elves about 1000 worth of tchotchkes, and the next year they showed up with more goods than I've ever seen -- lots of caged animals, whereas I usually get very few, and so on. However, other times I gave them more and it seemed nothing changed. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:01, 7 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Add hint: "Buy everything ... in case you get a strange mood"? ==<br />
<br />
Personally I've found it very useful to do this:<br />
<br />
When traders arrive, <br />
a) optionally check stocks.<br />
b) Buy everything you can't make or harvest in your own fort.<br />
c) In the diplomat meeting, order everything you can't make or harvest.<br />
<br />
To be specific: Thread, Silk, cloth, metal bars (anything else?).<br />
<br />
The reason: <br />
a) Dwarves sometimes demand items out of some metal or alloy they like.<br />
b) Dwarves who are possessed or get a strange mood will sometimes demand silk or cloth.<br />
<br />
Players who proactively (harr!) seek to stock materials for possible moods will IMO have much less of a problem with dwarves going insane from moods. However I couldn't figure out where (or if) I should insert that, so I'll just add this idea (adding a hint: buy everything you don't have) to the discussion.<br />
<br />
Also, as far as I know, possessed/moody dwarves in the current version (27.176.38c) do not demand specific items. Rather, they want a) any metal bar b) any metal ore c) Silk d) Cloth e) wood f) raw gem, ad I'm not sure if that's it. So probably the hint should read something like:<br />
<br />
<br />
"NOTE: If your fortress cannot harvest silk, it would be useful to order some from the caravans. If you do not have a cloth industry yet, order some cloth as well. Having a small stock of such materials - e.g. GCS silk - will increase the likelihood of your fortress gaining an artifact from any mood or possession."</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Trading&diff=3600340d Talk:Trading2008-06-09T18:41:30Z<p>Samyotix: Add hint: "Buy everything ... in case you get a strange mood"?</p>
<hr />
<div>== Consolidation of Trading, Trade Depot, Caravans, and Wagon ==<br />
<br />
This needs wikification with some amounts of rewriting. I will give it a go. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 06:51, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Yea thanks, this is my first try at a wiki-page. sorry if it was crappy... --[[User:CombatWombat|CombatWombat]] 06:42, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Nah, there's no such thing as a crappy wiki edit, when its got content in it. Just remember to be bold, otherwise there would be nothing here. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 07:29, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Well this thread's a little old, but I re-wrote and consolidated some more information on this page. There was also some discussion of this on [[Talk:Caravan#Merge_this_into_Trading]]. If you don't approve, please don't just revert it, I organized and cleaned up a lot of the scattered info, so at the very least it should be split from where it is now on the Trading page to where it should ultimately go. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 02:48, 2 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Extraction from different articles ==<br />
<br />
All the information on trading seems quite scattered now (Trade depot, Caravan, Dwarf, Elf, Human etc), and as most stuff is well written I think we should merge the trade sections to this one page and leave behind only refecences. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 08:29, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:Looking good, is there a 'your first caravan'-type tutorial anywhere we could link to? Something with advice on the sort of goods to prepare and what to buy for the first winter, with new players in mind. I'll try and find one somewhere. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:07, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
: Done, linked to the trade section in the new player guide. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:11, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Done++ Someone else finish merging the information from Caravans into the page. Make sure to get that awesome Elf trader image. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:10, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Haulers? ==<br />
In my experience the "bring item to depot" tasks were performed by any dwarf, even without any hauling labors enabled. Can also be my imagination. I cannot check it for now, so, anyone, please verify.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:49, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:That's correct, as many times my pure crafters will stop crafting to haul goods to the depot, despite having only one or two production labors enabled. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:41, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Is this similar to plant gathering where even non-working nobles and children will do it, or is it limted to any regular dwarf regardless of labour? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 19:04, 31 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:::Yes, nobles and children will haul stuff to the depot. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:19, 1 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Moving goods on afterwards ==<br />
<br />
To get things ''out'' of the depot.... do I have to order them removed while the caravan is still around?<br />
I have starving dwarves... and food going rotten in the depot![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:36, 5 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:AFAIK, no. in my experience, anything bought is treated as like it's just lying there, not being traded.<br />
Well, yes and no. Once trading is finished dwarves will start bringing the bought goods in while the caravan still is there. But you cant 'order' them to per se ;) Your own stuff that wasnt sold however will remain in depot till the caravan leaves. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:45, 13 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::Unless you go back into the {{k|g}}oods menu at the Depot and unmark them for trading. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:25, 14 February 2008 (EST)<br />
I've a question in the same vein: I just traded for a truckload of goods, but the traders didn't even leave them in the depot! They just carried my goods out with them. Were my dwarves supposed to carry all of the goods back earlier? --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 14:08, 16 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Duplicate Page?==<br />
The page "Caravan" has very similar information, though this "trading" page seems more complete.[Samyotix]<br />
<br />
== culling on mandates ==<br />
<br />
what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== "everything is ruined now" ==<br />
I just accidentally tried to trade the elves a wooden bin full of stone goods. Now ALL my stone goods, including ones not actually in that bin, are unacceptable. I ended up just seizing the rope I needed, but I'd like to know if this is a glitch, or if I just made them too angry to trade. <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] ([[User talk:Shadow archmagi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Shadow archmagi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
:It's not a glitch. Elves refuse to trade at all after you give them even a single wood or animal product. After you do that the trade option is locked until they come back to trade next year. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:52, 27 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:The wooden bin told the elves you hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate trees. Elves don't trade with people who hate animals. Don't trade dead trees or dead animal parts to elves. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 13:18, 22 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Depot Access==<br />
Not a single square on my map is accessible by the caravan. What should i do? --[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
EDIT: My bad. It seems that it shows every square as inaccessible if the depot is not fully constructed--[[User:Noctune9|Noctune9]] 11:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Trading Margins ==<br />
In regards to this submission:<br />
"If you have a somewhat experienced broker or you already raised the traiders mood to pleased or above you can usually trade with marginal profit for them and you can also safely ignore their counteroffers, offering the same trade a second time, successfully."<br />
<br />
You do realize that when they make a counteroffer they automatically add those counteroffer goods to the pot, right? Just making sure. Are you saying you go back through and remove each item their counteroffer added to your side of the deal? Seems much simpler to just stick to the ~50% rule of thumb, especially at the beginning with low skills and again once you reach the point of having so many trade goods that you can easily buy everything you need from each caravan with plenty of goods left over. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 14:55, 22 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
: Yes, exactly. Whenever i get a counteroffer I remove all items from the list they added until their profit is back to what i deem fit, sometimes leaving a low value item, say, 50☼, they chose, if I wanted to trade it anyway. Since this is not a beginners guide page, I think it's wrong to advise people to a 50% profit margin that is much higher than necessary. Once the traders are happy, they will even agree to trading an anvil for an anvil. I tested this extensively because usually i want them to leave early and thus try to make them angry. Almost impossible. We could however add smth about the (suspected) advantages of having high export totals like bigger caravans, more immigrants, arrival of king. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 06:39, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
::The 50% rule of thumb is a good starting point either way. "Advanced" page or not, before I posted that, there was no guidance on what profit margin the visiting traders would generally accept, so that people were left to find out the hard way.<br />
::Going back through a long list of your trade goods to hunt down and remove the items which the visiting trader added to the offer seems like a bit of a waste of time to me, unless you just have very few trade goods or a really tight budget at your fortress.<br />
::As for being able to get away with lower margins once the trader is happy, that is definitely useful knowledge and could be expanded upon. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 12:52, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
There is no way to refuse a counter-offer, is there? The only option is to hit {{k|Enter}}, and the "goods are added to the pot" as you say ... correct? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 09:07, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Correct, however, you're free to simply remove the additionally requested items and re-offer. In the case of a new trader in his first few trade sessions, this will likely work, as he gained experience (probably a LOT) just by offering. Even if it doesn't, as long as you don't repeat it many times (4+ I'd say) then there's no real risk of driving them off. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 13:16, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Goblins butchering my caravans. ==<br />
<br />
Every time I trade with the caravans, a goblin ambush comes and the merchants are all killed. Ive taken new measures to prevent this, but will merchants come back to trade? and what effect does their death have? <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Wafl|Wafl]] ([[User talk:Wafl|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Wafl|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
<br />
My caravans get shot up by goblins all the time. Then you get to loot their stuff. The caravans always seem to come back next year. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 22:49, 24 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Trading flowchart ==<br />
<br />
Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)<br />
<br />
Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right<br />
{|cellpadding="2" border="1"<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})<br />
|-<br />
| Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})<br />
Check green area reaches edge of map<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map<br />
"A--- caravan from --- has arrived."<br />
|-<br />
| Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot<br />
"Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods"<br />
|-<br />
| Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded <br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]<br />
<br />
:Ask and ye shall receive<br />
{|cellspacing=0 align=center<br />
|-<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|width=1|<br />
|width=50|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Arrive at fortress location<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Create Goods<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Build Depot<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Check Depot is accessible<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=4 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|colspan=2|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Set goods to be traded<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 rowspan=5 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for caravan to arrive at depot and merchants to finish unloading<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Wait for goods to be hauled<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Request the trader at the depot and turn off his other labours<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|colspan=5|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" height=20|<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
|colspan=7 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=4 height=20 width=3|<br />
|style="border: 1px solid #aaa;"|<br />
|-<br />
|colspan=3|<br />
|colspan=3 style="border: 1px solid #aaa;" align=center|Trade<br />
|}<br />
You'll note I shifted the location of requesting trader --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Offerings ==<br />
<br />
Can anyone expound on the function of {{K|o}}ffering goods as gifts to traders? I tried giving the elves about 1000 worth of tchotchkes, and the next year they showed up with more goods than I've ever seen -- lots of caged animals, whereas I usually get very few, and so on. However, other times I gave them more and it seemed nothing changed. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:01, 7 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Add hint: "Buy everything ... in case you get a strange mood"? ==<br />
<br />
Personally I've found it very useful to do this:<br />
<br />
When traders arrive, a) optionally check stocks.<br />
b) Buy everyxthing you can't make or harvest in your own fort.<br />
c) Order everything you can't make in the diplomat meeting.<br />
<br />
To be specific: Thread, Silk, cloth, metal bars (anything else?).<br />
<br />
The reason: <br />
a) Dwarves sometimes demand items out of some metal or alloy they like.<br />
b) Dwarves who are possessed or get a strange mood will sometimes demand silk or cloth.<br />
<br />
Players who proactively (harr!) seek to stock materials for possible moods will IMO have much less of a problem with dwarves going insane from moods. However I couldn't figure out where (or if) I should insert that, so I'll just add this idea (adding a hint: buy everything you don't have) to the discussion.</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Dragon&diff=2904840d Talk:Dragon2008-05-09T19:18:23Z<p>Samyotix: Burning items ...</p>
<hr />
<div>= Tameable? =<br />
<br />
Are Dragons tameable in this version? Supposedly they were in the previous version, but I am not sure. [[User:KiTA|KiTA]] 18:59, 24 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
If you see a Hyrda in a fortress, will a Dragon ever appear, or will you forever see Hyrdas going forward? [[User:KiTA|KiTA]] 18:59, 24 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
: Yes, they can be tamed once you get the [[dungeon master]], just like before. --[[User:JT|JT]] 18:43, 24 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:: What about multiple types of megabeasts showing up? Or is it "once a hyrda, always a hydra?"<br />
::: I had both a hydra and bronze colossus show up in the same fort [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]]<br />
::: I had a Dragon, and then 3 months later a hydra show up as well. PS: I edited your comment. --[[User:Gotthard|Gotthard]] 11:08, 10 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
=Disappointment=<br />
I was pretty disappointed with my first Dragon. It came during a goblin siege, and proceeded to make a bee line for them. The first goblin bolt grounded it as unconscious, and the second killed it. Highly anticlimactic, it didn't even singe anything. Would be nice if they were somewhat threatening. --Gotthard 13:50, 3 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:This is not a problem with dragons, it's a recuring problem from ranged weapons. Did you ever try to send champions against a horde of bowmen? They'd die just as easily as recruits... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:30, 3 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::I would say it is somewhat a problem with megabeasts in general, though. Someone actually mentioned this to me in another context the other day, but megabeasts really need to have some special mechanics for them if they're going to be very mega.--[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]] 15:01, 3 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::If I read the raws correctly, it just looks like his only attack is a bite (with a good damage of 1-6). Shouldn't he have a tail swipe, or a wing buffet to complement his fire breathing ability? Perhaps an increased resistance to ranged attacks, although armor doesn't seem to do much to piercing damage. Very irritating. --Gotthard 17:21, 3 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
A dragon raided my village, burning everything above ground. The flames consumed everything. Including the dragon itself. --[[User:Sebbekai|Sebbekai]] 16:31, 5 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
=Tiny?=<br />
Dragons can enter dwarf homes? That's a bit odd. A five story tall dragon probably should be a bit taller then the four-or-so foot dwarves. I'd imagine elves have a hard enough time as is. [[User:Minalkra|Minalkra]] 01:20, 2 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Burning items ... ==<br />
<br />
IMO the easiest way of dealing with fire breath is: Options -> Only military allowed outside.<br />
<br />
Setting this ON as soon as the dragon arrives will result in dwarves not doing much (or more precisely cancelling any task that paths them outside), but should also prevent dwarves from picking up burning items (providing you kill the dragon while it's still outside the fortress.)</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Region&diff=196440d:Region2008-03-02T17:16:35Z<p>Samyotix: /* Surroundings */</p>
<hr />
<div>A ''region'' is an area of the world that you may select when choosing a location for your fort. There are 256x256 = 65536 regions in a world. Each one is composed of 16x16 = 256 blocks of 48x48 = 2304 tiles each. This results in 38,654,705,664 tiles total ''before'' you take Z-layers into account.<br />
<br />
Each region is made up of several [[biomes]] affecting available flora and fauna. A region also has a [[climate]], and may be in the presence of [[good]] or [[evil]] [[civilization]]s. Some information on what the region contains can be gathered from the [[Map legend]].<br />
<br />
== Choosing a Region ==<br />
When starting a new fortress, the game allows you to choose almost any regions on the [[world map]]. Different regions have different creatures, [[tree]]s, or no trees, (depending on how mountainous the region is), different climates, maybe a source of water, and either good or evil alignment.<br />
<br />
A rough list of region types follows. The combination of these factors help make each game unique. <br />
<br />
=== Summary of Biomes ===<br />
''See [[biomes]] for a complete list of combinations.''<br />
* [[Mountain]]<br />
* [[Temperate]]<br />
* [[Tropical]]<br />
* [[Broadleaf forest]]<br />
* [[Conifer forest]]<br />
* [[Savanna]]<br />
* [[Shrubland]]<br />
* [[Sand desert]]<br />
* [[Tundra]]<br />
<br />
=== Temperature ===<br />
''Too cold and you'll freeze, too hot and you'll die of thirst. Somewhere in the middle- dragons will get you.''<br />
* Freezing<br />
* Cold<br />
* Temperate<br />
* Warm<br />
* Hot<br />
* Scorching<br />
<br />
In colder environments, surface water will freeze for more of the year.<br />
In hotter environments, surface water may evaporate faster than it is replaced by rainfall. (so if there is no brook or river then there may be no source of water after a few months)<br />
<br />
=== Trees ===<br />
''[[Tree]]s are good for [[wood]].''<br />
* <span style="background-color:black;color:Red;font-family:Courier New">&nbsp;None&nbsp;</span><br />
* Scarce<br />
* Sparse<br />
* <span style="background-color:black;color:Lime;font-family:Courier New">&nbsp;Woodland&nbsp;</span><br />
* Heavily forested<br />
<br />
=== Other Vegetation ===<br />
''Other means [[shrub]]s and bushes, or maybe cacti.''<br />
* <span style="background-color:black;color:Red;font-family:Courier New">&nbsp;None&nbsp;</span><br />
* Scarce<br />
* Moderate<br />
* Thick<br />
<br />
=== Surroundings ===<br />
Surroundings affects the types of plant life and wild [[animals]] which will appear in play.<br />
{| style="border: 0px; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; background: black"<br />
| || <span style="color: #fff">'''Benign'''</span> || <span style="color: #fff">'''Neutral'''</span> || <span style="color: #fff">'''Savage'''</span><br />
|-<br />
| style="padding-right: 30px;"| <span style="color: #fff">'''Good'''</span> || style="padding-right: 30px;"| <span style="color: #00f">'''Serene'''</span> || style="padding-right: 30px;"| <span style="color: #0f0">'''Mirthful'''</span> || <span style="color: #0ff">'''Joyous Wilds'''</span><br />
|-<br />
| <span style="color: #fff">'''Neutral'''</span> || <span style="color: #c0c0c0">'''Calm'''</span> || <span style="color: #008000">'''Wilderness'''</span> || <span style="color: #ff0">'''Untamed Wilds'''</span><br />
|-<br />
| <span style="color: #fff">'''Evil'''</span> || <span style="color: #800080">'''Sinister'''</span> || <span style="color: #f0f">'''Haunted'''</span> || <span style="color: #f0f">'''Terrifying'''</span><br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
* ''Note:'' With the new Embark interface, it is possible to start in a local region containing ALL THREE alignments of terrain type (good, evil, and neutral). Keep in mind this is totally awesome.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
* [[Biomes]]<br />
<br />
{{World}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:World]]</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Your_first_fortress&diff=1100740d:Your first fortress2008-02-22T19:31:03Z<p>Samyotix: /* Your surroundings */</p>
<hr />
<div>This is a guide to help new players get started on their first [[fortress]] and teach them the basics of keeping their [[dwarves]] alive. Above all else, always remember the [[Dwarf Fortress]] motto: "Losing is fun!"<br />
<br />
We discuss generating a world, choosing a fortress location, buying [[skill]]s and items, and playing the first month or so. Setting game initialization options is covered in [[technical tricks]]. The advice here is biased for safety; with a little experience you'll do better with strategies customized for your play style and preferred start locations. It is also deliberately terse. For more extended treatment of particular subjects, consult the linked pages or the rest of the Dwarf Fortress Wiki.<br />
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== Generating a world ==<br />
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The first thing you'll want to do when starting Dwarf Fortress is [[World generation |create a world]]. You have two options: Create a fractally-generated random world or re-create one of the [[pregenerated worlds]] using a specific seed. <br />
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However, for new players it is recommended that you create a random world using the '''STANDARD''' template, so just hit {{k|Enter}} to continue. (Once you've gotten down the basics, you can return to the world generation screen and experiment with all of the options and create a world using one of the other techniques mentioned above.)<br />
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See the article on [[world generation]] for a complete guide to the world generation screen.<br />
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== Choosing a location ==<br />
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=== The interface ===<br />
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If you have at least one world without an active fortress, you will be able to choose "Start Playing" from the main menu. Chose "Dwarf Fortress" and you'll see a four-section window looking something like:<br />
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[[Image:FortressLocation_fd2f10.png | caption | This picture is shown with the default tileset. Other [[tilesets]] are available]]<br />
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Your next goal will be choosing the starting location for your fortress.<br />
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=== Your surroundings ===<br />
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You can discern a lot of information by scrolling through the various modes. The interface has six modes which you cycle through by pressing {{k|TAB}}. In turn, they display:<br />
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* [[Temperature]], amount of [[tree]]s, amount of [[plant]]s, and a hint at the sort of [[Animal|wildlife]] at the center of the selection rectangle. Look at the example picture again. Notice that you are told that you'll see no trees or plants here ([[mountain]]s being too high for either to grow), but that's true only for the exact center of the local area: You'll notice that the local area includes some of both on the edges, which is often all you need. You can view the different types of [[biomes]] in the selected area by hitting the {{k|F1}} {{k|F2}} {{k|F3}} or {{k|F4}} keys.<br />
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* [[Civilization]]s capable of interacting with you. You need to be in contact with dwarves to get [[immigrant]]s. You'll want to trade with the dwarves and preferably also [[human]]s and [[elves]]. [[Goblin]]s mean trouble, but it's hard to avoid them without hiding on an island.<br />
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* Your dwarven civilization. Your choice of civilization may have an effect on [[trade]] and [[immigration]].{{verify}} For instance, one civilization might have access to [[groundhog]] [[meat]], whereas another might not.<br />
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* Relative [[elevation]] and [[slope]] steepness. This lets you guess at the shape of the land. Try to avoid [[cliff]]s of 4 or more. A good elevation map contains lots low elevation changes ranging from 1 to 4.<br />
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==== Location, Location, Location ====<br />
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For your first fortress, it's not entirely important. However, there are some general guidelines that can help you decide:<br />
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* Lots of trees and vegetation are good for producing food and lumber for your fortress.<br />
* A temperate climate is one that experiences all four seasons. '''Hot''' and '''Freezing''' climates take those temperatures to the extreme. Just like in the real world, it is more difficult to sustain life (and therefore, your fortress) in these conditions.<br />
* Running water = permanent source of water. Lakes and ponds have a finite amount of water.<br />
* Try to stay away from locations that are labeled "terrifying." Also, starting out in the middle of a goblin fortress is probably not a good idea.<br />
* Magma is nice, but not necessary. And with magma comes Magma men and other such frightful creatures.<br />
* Areas with [[Aquifers]] require some engineering to get to rock. You'll be warned if you chose an area with an aquifer. When in doubt, don't try it.<br />
* Who cares? If you like what you see, go for it. You can always start over. And remember the DF motto: Losing is fun!<br />
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Move your selection around the local map by using the {{k|h}} {{k|k}} {{k|u}} or {{k|m}} keys.<br />
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==== Fortress size ====<br />
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Once you've decided on location, you need to decide the size of your fortress area. Advantages of requesting a large local area include more raw materials, greater diversity of [[rock]]s and special underground features, and the ability to include desired terrain (such as a river, a forest, or a magma vent). Disadvantages include slower game performance, higher likelihood of merchants failing to reach your [[trade depot]] before they run out of time, and more risk of losing immigrants as they struggle to your front [[gate]]. (Note that you can [[mine]] many levels, and even a 3x3 area generally contains more raw materials than you're ever likely to need.)<br />
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You can adjust the size of your fort's area by using {{k|SHIFT}} + the {{k|h}} {{k|k}} {{k|u}} or {{k|m}}keys.<br />
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=== Embark ===<br />
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When done, hit {{k|e}} to embark. A warning may appear if you've chosen a challenging site.<br />
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== Buying skills and items ==<br />
<!-- I've written this build carefully. While it does need improvement, please give a reason if you change it. --Savok --><br />
You'll now have the choice of playing with the default setup or of preparing for the journey carefully. We're going to do the latter, because we'd like to stay alive.<br />
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Here, presumably, you are the dwarf determining who will go and what they will take. You have a total of 2060☼ to spend in two categories: Skilled dwarves and items. Some items have already been selected for you, but you probably won't want most of these.<br />
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There are as many possible ways to approach setting up as there are fortress locations. The [[starting builds]] page offers several possibilities, if you don't like the one here.<br />
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=== Skills ===<br />
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The [[iron]] [[anvil]] costs 1000☼ to take. While you need an anvil for metalsmithing, you shouldn't take it here, since the dwarven [[caravan]] may bring one in [[autumn]] of the first year, and you'll easily be able to make 1000☼ in trade goods before then. If you can't buy it then, you can order one later.<br />
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First, remove all the items in the items screen, so you'll have enough money to spend on skilled dwarves. You need to press the - key on the numpad to sell items. Likewise you use the + button on the numpad to buy more of an item. + and - on the regular keyboard will not work.<br />
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We suggest taking dwarves with these skills, but you can change these around however you like. Many players would prefer a [[weaponsmith]]/[[armorsmith]] to the fisherdwarf, for example.<br />
* Proficient [[Miner]]/Novice [[Judge of intent]]/Novice [[Appraiser]]/Novice [[Organizer]]/Novice [[Record keeper]]. This dwarf will be the leader, trader, manager, bookkeeper, as well as a miner sometimes.<br />
* Proficient [[Miner]]/Proficient [[Mason]]<br />
* Proficient [[Woodcutter]]/Proficient [[Carpenter]]<br />
* Proficient [[Grower]]/Proficient [[Herbalist]]<br />
* Proficient [[Building designer]]/Proficient [[Mechanic]]<br />
* Proficient [[Fisherdwarf]]/Proficient [[Fish cleaner]]<br />
* Proficient [[Brewer]]/Proficient [[Cook]]<br />
The total cost of the skills is 475☼, but it is worth the cost: Once you start the game, skills will be much more difficult to get than [[currency|money]]. Rather, valuable goods; there is no ''currency'', just goods worth specific amounts.<br />
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=== Items ===<br />
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Now, you have 1585☼ to spend on items to take along.<br />
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* You'll need two [[copper]] [[pick]]s, which cost 20☼ each (40☼ total), for your miners. The material doesn't affect mining speed{{verify}}.<br />
* Also, a [[battle axe]] will be needed for woodcutting. Since the only possibly metal for it is [[steel]], it costs 300☼.<br />
* You'll need food. We recommend the following:<br />
** 100 pieces of any variety of [[meat]] worth 2☼ apiece. Take at least one meat from each type of 2☼ meat, as you will get more [[barrel]]s that way. (200☼ total)<br />
***If you bring Turtle or any other fish you can also get bones and shells when they are consumed, though you won't if you cook them.<br />
** 100 drinks of [[alcohol]], which will be stored in 20 [[barrel]]s free of charge. Alcohol stacks 5 drinks per barrel, so stack sizes ending in 1 or 6 earn you a cheap barrel. (200☼ total)<br />
***If you bring all the types available it will help keep the dwarfs happy, since a given dwarf might have a preference as to what kind of booze he drinks, and his favorite one will make him happier. Don't worry about this too much.<br />
* You'll probably want [[seed]]s, which are 1☼ each:<br />
** 25 [[plump helmet spawn]]<br />
** 10 [[pig tail]] seeds<br />
** 10 [[rock nut]]s, which are the most difficult crop to use but the one that gives the most food, bar [[cheating]]<br />
* You may wish to bring [[animal]]s:<br />
** Two [[dog]]s, at 16☼ each (32☼ total). Gender alternates, so you will get one male and one female if you bring two. Dogs are excellent early defense systems and can be easily trained into war dogs, which do not run from danger and do twice as much damage.{{ver|0.23.130.23a}}<br />
** [[Cat]]s kill [[vermin]], preventing unhappy [[thought]]s, and will take owners which will make the owners happy, but also leave dead rats and other vermin corpses around your fortress which can produce clouds of [[miasma]]; bringing cats is a matter of preference, but not recommended for novices. They also will choose their owners, so you may end up with a swarm of cats that cannot be killed without sending the whole fortress into [[tantrum]]s. They cost 11☼ each.<br />
*** If you want to prevent a catsplosion (insanely high cat population?) with certainty, kill all female cats before they find an owner. If immigrants tantrum, kill them too.<br />
* If you have followed the above exactly, you'll have 768☼ left. Spend this on whatever you like. If the area where you are has little wood, like a [[desert]] or mountains, you may wish to bring a few hundred [[logs]], which cost 3☼ each. You could also bring more [[food]]. You may wish to not take the expensive axe and take an anvil instead, which would leave you with 68☼. You can request an axe from the caravan or [[forge]] it yourself.<br />
* If you plan on raising animals as a food source you could take two cows or depending on where you start or what civilization you select another horse or camel to breed.<br />
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=== [[Fortress name|Naming]] ===<br />
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You can also name your fortress and starting group. This doesn't affect the game any, except in that if you don't, you could end up with a name like "The Bloody Anus of Angels."<br />
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== Beginning the fortress ==<br />
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When you reach the site of your new fortress, the first things you want to do are:<br />
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* Dig secure lodgings.<br />
* Create [[stockpile]]s.<br />
* Build basic [[workshop]]s.<br />
* Set up a [[dining room]] and a [[bedroom]].<br />
* Construct a [[Farming|farm]].<br />
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Sounds simple, right? It doesn't? Learning the basics of the game can take some time, but soon enough you'll be customizing stockpiles like a pro!<br />
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=== Basics ===<br />
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* First off, pause the game by pressing {{k|space}}. You can do this at any time to figure out what's going on at your leisure.<br />
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* To move the view around, use the arrow keys. To move the view around at a faster pace, hold down the {{k|shift}} key, but if using the numpad keys make sure {{k|numlock}} is off. To view different elevations, or "[[Z]]-levels," use the {{k|<}} and {{k|>}} keys ({{k|shift}} + {{k|,}} or {{k|.}}).<br />
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* To examine the contents of a square, press {{k|k}} and move the cursor over the square you want to examine. If you get lost and can't find your way back to your dwarves, press {{k|F1}} to center the camera back on the starting position. Check out more information on [[hotkeys]] to find out how to change that location.<br />
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* You need to know how to change what jobs your dwarves will do. Press {{k|v}} and then move the cursor over a dwarf. It will display information about him/her. Go to the dwarf's {{k|p}}references, then the {{k|l}}abor submenu, and scroll the list with {{k|+}} and {{k|-}} on the number pad ({{k|*}} and {{k|/}} will scroll through the list at a faster pace). The highlighted jobs are the ones this dwarf is allowed to do. Your starting dwarves should have the jobs that you gave them skills in enabled, but any dwarf can do any job, even if they have no skill in it yet. This is important to know so you can make the dwarves do the jobs you need done instead of just whatever their default jobs are. You should probably turn off all types of [[hauling]] for one of the miners so they get right to work [[digging]] and don't get distracted by [[hauling]] commands. The {{k|Enter}} key toggles whether a dwarf will perform the given task or not.<br />
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=== Digging ===<br />
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* To start [[digging]] out your fortress, press {{k|d}} to open the designation menu. Here you can select the tiles for your miners to dig, or tell them to create [[stair]]s and [[ramp]]s and various other things. Press {{k|d}} again to make sure you're creating digging designations, then press enter to start marking where to dig.<br />
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* Start digging out a room as the start of your fortress. If you don't like the area the [[wagon]] starts in, choose a different place on the map. Try to keep a 1 tile wide chokepoint or hallway leading into it which you can block with a door. If you are in an area covered with sand, [[loam]], or [[clay]], you won't have rocks cluttering the room, so it may be easier to make your rooms there. Oddly, sand walls are just as hard as granite ones.<br />
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* You will need rock for construction, through, so if you don't mine your rooms out of stone, you'll need to create a mining area elsewhere to get stone.<br />
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* <del>Dwarves</del> Sane dwarves live underground, of course, so digging the start of your fortress requires you to understand the lay of the land. Likely, your fortress will be located in one of two types of areas, either near a preexisting steep slope you can dig into the side of, or in an area where you will have to dig [[stairs]] to get below the surface first. Examine the land using the {{k|k}} view command mentioned previously to determine which method you need to use. Open space means the land drops below your current Z-level.<br />
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* To dig down with stairs, designate a [[downward stairway]] on the surface, then move the view down one level ({{k|>}}) and designate an [[upward stairway]] on the tile directly beneath the downwards stairs. An [[up/down stairway]] works like both types of stairways in one tile. [[Stair]]s can go as deep as you want in a stack if you keep making [[up/down stairway]]s on top of each other. You can continue stairs from both the top and the bottom of [[up/down stairway]]s, but only from the bottom of [[downward stairway]]s, and only from the top of [[upward stairway]]s so only use the [[upward stairway]] or [[downward stairway]] when you're not planning to ever go further that direction. Keep in mind that [[upward stairway]]s and [[up/down stairway]]s are limited to real-life locations, so you can't build a new [[upward stairway]] or [[up/down stairway]] in a previously mined square without a [[downward stairway]] above it, though you can build them into un-mined areas.<br />
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=== Creating [[stockpile]]s ===<br />
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* Outdoors by the fortress entrance, create a [[refuse stockpile]], a [[wood stockpile]], a [[furniture stockpile]], and a [[food stockpile]] to get your supplies out of the wagon and keep the food from rotting. You may wish to create a [[stone stockpile]], but this may cause your dwarves to get bogged down with hauling if you make it too large. To make a stockpile, press {{k|p}}, press the letter corresponding to the type of stockpile you want, then press enter and drag the selection box over the area you want, and press enter again to create it.<br />
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* You'll need to make many different stockpiles throughout the game.<br />
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=== Building workshops ===<br />
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* Disassemble the wagon for [[wood]], by "destroying it", by pressing {{k|q}}, moving the cursor over the wagon, and pressing {{k|x}}. Your carpenter should then disassemble it into three logs (This is the same process to disassemble most any building).<br />
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* Create a [[mason's workshop]], a [[carpenter's workshop]], and a [[mechanic's workshop]] with the stones your miners should be producing as they dig tunnels through the rock. To build things, press {{k|b}}, then for workshops, press {{k|w}}. Scroll to the type you want with {{k|+}} and {{k|-}} and press enter. You should next see a screen with the list of all the available materials you can use to build the workshop. Select any type of stone and the dwarves will get started. '''However''', if the stone available to you has some [[economic stone|economic value]], such as [[limestone]] or [[marble]], you must press {{k|z}} to open the general status screen, go to the Stones submenu, then find the stone type in the list and press {{k|enter}} to allow your dwarves to use it for mundane tasks like constructing buildings and furniture.<br />
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* In order to get the worshops actually built, the Mason must do his job. If he's also miner (as proposed above), it's necessary to switch off "Mining" for him, else he won't build something and instead continue mining.<br />
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* Your [[fisherdwarf]] has likely run off to a body of water to start fishing. Raw fish is inedible, and rots if left alone too long, so you need to build a [[fishery]] to process it. You build the fishery in the same way you built the other workshops. After it's built, select it with {{k|q}}, press {{k|a}}, select "Process Raw Fish" and press enter. Then press {{k|r}} to make that order repeat until it runs out of fish to process.<br />
** The answer to the question, "is fishing high priority," (which was asked here) depends on what kind of priority you mean. If you mean "do dwarves fish instead of other tasks," yes, fishing is very high priority.<br />
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* At the [[mason's workshop]], order a [[door]] by selecting the workshop with {{k|q}}, pressing {{k|a}}, then scrolling to "door" on the list with {{k|+}} and {{k|-}} and pressing enter. Stone is more common than wood, so you want to make everything you can out of stone rather than wood. The only important items you can't make out of stone that you can make out of wood are [[bed]]s, [[bucket]]s, [[bin]]s, [[barrel]]s, and [[charcoal]] for fueling your [[forge]]s.<br />
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* Once the door is finished, place the door in the entrance of your fort by pressing {{k|b}}uild, then {{k|d}}oor, then selecting the space you want it to go in and pressing {{k|Enter}}. If trouble shows up, you can lock the door by pressing {{k|q}}, highlighting it and pressing {{k|l}} once. Pressing it again unlocks it.<br />
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* At the [[carpenter's workshop]], first order a [[bed]] and a [[bucket]] to be made out of some of your wood. These are needed to heal any injured dwarf.<br />
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<!-- This is where I stopped working on the article. --Savok --><br />
* Once the bed is complete, {{k|b}}uild it in the same manner you built the door, and place it in your entrance hall. Once it's placed, you should make it into a communal sleeping hall by selecting the bed with {{k|q}}, pressing {{k|r}} and using the {{k|+}} and {{k|-}} keys to cover the area of the hall, pressing enter, then pressing {{k|b}} to make it a [[barracks]]. Making it a barracks means that it is a public sleeping area, and dwarves without their own rooms will sleep there, even if there aren't enough beds.<br />
* You should designate some trees to be cut down for more logs. Press {{k|d}}, then {{k|t}}. Find an area with trees, then press enter and highlight some trees by dragging the selection area over them and pressing enter again.<br />
* To build some [[trap]]s to defend your front door, order some [[mechanism]]s to be built at the [[mechanic's workshop]]. After they are made, go to the {{k|b}}uild menu, and select the "Traps/Levers" category using {{k|+}} and {{k|-}}. Select the [[Trap#Stone-fall trap|stone-fall trap]], select the materials to use, then place it in a choke point leading into your fortress, like in front of or behind the front door.<br />
* Mine a new room that will be used as a dining hall, and build four or five stone [[table]]s and stone [[throne]]s for it. Build some more doors to section off new rooms properly, as dwarves dislike rooms that aren't enclosed on all sides by walls or doors. Place the tables and thrones like you did the doors, and put one throne adjacent to each table. Once a table is placed in the room, select it with {{k|q}} and use it to define the area as a dining room, like you did with the bed for the sleeping hall. You only need to use one table to define the room, and the rest of the tables in it are automatically considered part of the dining room.<br />
* Mine a few more rooms to be used as storage areas, remove the furniture and food stockpiles outside, and make new ones in these new storage rooms.<br />
* You can also move your workshops indoors. They should not be built in the vicinity of the sleeping hall, as the noise will bother people. You can remove the workshops aboveground the same way you dismantled the wagon: press {{k|q}}, highlight the workshop, then press {{k|x}}.<br />
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=== Farming ===<br />
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Next you'll set up [[farming]]. You first need to dig a farm room underground. Dwarven crops won't grow on the surface. (you ''can'' get some surface-grown crops using the [[Gather plants]] designation liberally.) <br />
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If there are enough layers of [[soil]] covering the rock, you can carve out a farm room inside the soil and start farming without having to [[irrigate]] the ground. However, if you want to make a farm room with a rock floor, you will need to get the floor wet first. When water covers a rock cavern floor, it becomes muddy, which allows you to build farm plots on it. For more information about how to do that, read up on [[irrigation]].<br />
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Once you have suitable ground for planting, go to the {{k|b}}uild menu, find "Farm Plot" or press {{k|p}}, then use the {{k|u}} {{k|m}} {{k|h}} {{k|k}} keys to resize it, and press enter to place it. A 5x5 field should be plenty to last you through winter. After it's placed, your growers will come clear the site and prepare it for planting.<br />
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Now that the field is ready, select it with {{k|q}}, and set the crop you want to be grown on it. You have to set this manually for each season. Press {{k|a}} for spring, {{k|b}} for summer, {{k|c}} for fall, and {{k|d}} for winter. Not every crop can be grown in every season, although [[plump helmet]]s can be grown all year. You probably want to grow plump helmets exclusively at first, as they are the easiest crop to grow and use. Dwarves can eat them raw, cooked, or brew them into alcohol.<br />
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=== Trading ===<br />
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A dwarven caravan will drop by on the first year. You need to have a [[Trade depot]] somewhere accessible, and an [[Office]] for your outpost leader to meet with the liaison and discuss what to bring for the next year. Traders can reach pretty much any place that hasn't been locked or isn't up or down stairs. Human wagons are a little more tricky, sometimes, though.<br />
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You may be a bit light on things to trade. If you have any leftover [[mechanism]]s, send 'em in; they're worth a good penny, specially if they're of better quality. You can also build a [[Craftsdwarf's workshop]] and make stone crafts for trading if you brought a skilled stonecrafter with you. If you have any high quality cooked meals and feel that you are well stocked on food you may consider selling that, but don't underestimate the first wave of [[immigrant]]s.<br />
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If you have managed to kill any invaders, many of them wear silk clothes that don't fit Dwarves. These can be worth hauling long distances - one pair of silk socks or a shirt may practically pay for an anvil.<br />
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In order to trade, you'll need to use {{k|q}} on the trade depot. Pressing {{k|r}} will put a "Trade at depot" job on the queue (make sure your broker's not off hauling stone or something). While you're doing this, you'll need to move the things you want to trade away to the depot: The {{k|g}} key lets you pick from your stores. Once the broker and the items are in place, use {{k|t}} to initiate the trade. <br />
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What to buy? Logs, crops, cheap meat. Any general, cheap supplies you need. Do not buy cheese or giant cave spider silk for now. They're not worth it. However, if you are in an area that cannot produce steel, and you can pay for it, you may wish to start ordering steel and/or steel ingredients now.<br />
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Each level of asking for an item increases the prices by 20%, on average, so while if you pay the max amount you will almost certainly get the item, and lots of it, you'll be paying twice the normal value.<br />
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== What next? ==<br />
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At this point your little fort should be mostly self-sufficient, barring animal attacks, mining accidents, psychotic outbreaks, or invasion. You can now invest some time in luxuries, such as making private rooms for each dwarf, crafting valuable trade goods, crazy engineering projects, and brewing more beer.<br />
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Here's some ideas for what to do next:<br />
* Make an underground water supply that won't freeze over in winter, by draining a surface pool or diverting a river.<br />
* Build a [[craftdwarf's workshop]] and start making some trade goods.<br />
* Start [[smelting]] the ore you've mined if you have dwarves with the right skills.<br />
* Build a [[trade depot]] so that merchants can come and trade with you.<br />
* Set up a [[still]] to brew more drinks for your thirsty dwarves. They'll drink water if they have to, but they are much happier and work faster if they are full of alcohol.<br />
* Make individual rooms for each dwarf, with a bed and maybe a rock coffer and rock cabinet in each one.<br />
* Use [[zone]]s to set up a meeting hall, and designate which water sources you want your dwarves to use for fishing and drinking.<br />
* Expand your farm, dining room, and living quarters in anticipation of the massive wave of 10-30 immigrants that will likely show up sometime in the next year.<br />
* Start making [[bin]]s and [[barrel]]s to consolidate items and food taking up space in your stockpiles so things are more organized, and so you have more barrels to brew drinks with.<br />
* Set up an indoor [[refuse stockpile]] so your dwarves don't have to carry their trash as far, and so you can start building up a useful supply of bones and shells.<br />
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And when you start feeling more confident with your DF-knowledge, you can try to set some [[Game goals|crazy goals]] for yourself for a challenge, or just enjoy the game in the way '''you''' fashion at your own pace. But most importantly to remember, '''Losing is fun!'''<br />
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[[Category:Guides]]<br />
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{{Starting FAQ}}</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Samyotix&diff=37580User talk:Samyotix2008-02-22T18:10:43Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
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<center>Welcome to '''Dwarf Fortress Wiki''', {{PAGENAME}}!<br><br />
Please see our [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community_Portal#We_are_doing_this.21_Let_us_do_it_right.|guidelines]] on editing.</center><br />
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To sign comments on a talk page just put <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> after your message. It will get replaced with a signature, link to your userpage, and a timestamp. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:54, 17 February 2008 (EST)<br />
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Thanks! [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 16:28, 17 February 2008 (EST)<br />
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I noticed that you added <br />
* '''Miner / Hammerdwarf. Mining makes dwarves strong and tough, and the [[Hammerdwarf]] skill is used for fighting with the Pick.'''<br />
to the starting builds article even after the conversation in [[talk:miner]]. While I applaud fighting for what you believe, I think you should confront the issue directly by talking it over. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:17, 22 February 2008 (EST)<br />
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I hadn't seen that, and will correct my mistake. Sorry. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 13:07, 22 February 2008 (EST)<br />
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Someone already fixed it. Thanks. I'll research more thoroughly before adding anything else. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 13:10, 22 February 2008 (EST)</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Samyotix&diff=37579User talk:Samyotix2008-02-22T18:07:10Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
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<center>Welcome to '''Dwarf Fortress Wiki''', {{PAGENAME}}!<br><br />
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To sign comments on a talk page just put <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> after your message. It will get replaced with a signature, link to your userpage, and a timestamp. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:54, 17 February 2008 (EST)<br />
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Thanks! [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 16:28, 17 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
I noticed that you added <br />
* '''Miner / Hammerdwarf. Mining makes dwarves strong and tough, and the [[Hammerdwarf]] skill is used for fighting with the Pick.'''<br />
to the starting builds article even after the conversation in [[talk:miner]]. While I applaud fighting for what you believe, I think you should confront the issue directly by talking it over. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:17, 22 February 2008 (EST)<br />
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I hadn't seen that, and will correct my mistake. Sorry. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 13:07, 22 February 2008 (EST)</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Starting_builds&diff=952640d:Starting builds2008-02-21T17:49:23Z<p>Samyotix: /* Skills */</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Starting builds''' are different strategies that you can choose when starting a new game in [[fortress mode]]. The skills and items which you assign to your dwarves will have a large impact on life in your new fortress, especially in its first year.<br />
<br />
This page gives advice on some of the many gameplay elements which influence the flow of your game based on your goals. These include: choosing a ''fortress site'', the ''starting build'' itself - defined by who and what to take with you - as well as ''challenge builds'' aimed at providing new or unusual challenges to advanced players.<br />
<br />
* Your First Fortress?<br />
Note: If you are a new player looking for a solid basis to survive the first couple of months or years, check out [[Your_first_fortress|this guide]]. It includes a basic starting build similar to the one discussed below.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Components of a Starting Build ==<br />
<br />
=== Skills ===<br />
<br />
Each dwarf can learn any of a large number of [[skills]]. <br />
<br />
* Dwarves with little experience in a skill will work slowly and ineffectively.<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced [[farming|farmers]] and [[herbalist|herbalists]], for example, will harvest stacks of only one or two items or even nothing, wasting the seed/shrub. This results in a small overall harvest which takes many [[container#container|containers]] to store in, less effective food preparation in the kitchen, and more space needed for [[stockpiles]].<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced [[Miner|miners]] work very slowly. Mining can be levelled up quite quickly by mining [[soil#soil|soil]], but taking two dwarves with at least some points in mining is recommended in many cases.<br />
<br />
* Dwarves improve their skills on a learning-by-doing-basis. Dwarves who have specific labors enabled will, after a while, progress to Dabbling users of their skill, and continue to learn from performing that labor.<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced dwarves who create items in nearly all [[workshops#workshops|workshops]] will create low [[quality#quality|quality]] goods, and take a long time doing so. Skilled dwarves work quickly and produce high-quality items.<br />
<br />
* [[Quality]] is a central concept in the game - it affects [[food]] and [[alcohol]], almost anything you will have your dwarves create in the game: [[trading]] goods, [[barrel|barrels]], [[clothing]], [[armor]], [[furniture]], [[weapons]], and so on. Quality also very much affects the worth of an item while [[trading]].<br />
<br />
Overall, 'Levelling up' the dwarves' skills quickly is a good game goal to set. Doing so [[losing|may]] result in your dwarves efficiently creating a magnificent fortress filled to the brim with valuable items and furniture.<br />
<br />
Using and seeing high-quality items gives dwarves happy [[thoughts]]. This tends to increase a fortress' [[tantrum|longevity]].<br />
<br />
=== Which do I need, really? ===<br />
<br />
Most builds recommend:<br />
<br />
* 2 miners<br />
* 2 farmers<br />
* mason<br />
* mechanic<br />
* carpenter<br />
* woodcutter<br />
* brewer<br />
* cook<br />
* herbalist<br />
* plus some extra skills - to create trade goods, or build up a dwarven glass or steel industry.<br />
<br />
==== Combining Skills ====<br />
Some [[skills]] are highly time-consuming, and working at different jobs levels up specific [[attribute]]s. One could level up a miner until hes becomes mighty and ultra-tough - and then turn him into a soldier. If you plan on doing so, it may not be a good idea to give this guy another critical job such as Trader and Record Keeper, but maybe military skills depending on how soon you intend to have [[soldier]]s.<br />
<br />
Since tasks will take place in specific areas, it makes sense to combine tasks into dwarves who will take care of a specific industry - so Combine (indoor) farming with cooking (not mining), for example.<br />
<br />
Most builds recommend combinations such as:<br />
<br />
* Woodcutter/Carpenter. Add Axedwarf for added security.<br />
* Mason. Apparently, in most many fortresses, the Mason is a very busy man indeed. Recommendations include 'spare miner', 'rarely needed skills' or skills which are not very time-consuming.<br />
* Farmer/Cook, Farmer/Brewer. Basic two-person food team.<br />
* Farmer/Herbalist, Farmer/Brewer/Cook. One bold dwarf to farm and venture outside looking for wild plants, the other to keep busy in the still, kitchen, and indoor farms.<br />
* Noble/Boss: Novice [[Judge of intent]]/Novice [[Appraiser]]/Novice [[Organizer]]/Novice [[Record keeper]]. Combine this with a single time-intensive task such as Masonry or Mining, and optionally turn off all hauling tasks right at the start of the game. This results in an all-around Boss and Trader (who can usually be coerced into going to the trade depot and hold meetings just by turning the main profession off).<br />
* Craftsdwarf, depending on your strategy - e.g. [[glass]] maker, weapon smith or armor smith, sometimes combined with related tasks from that industry (furnace operating, wood burning). Typically an item hauler in the initial months of your fortress, this dwarf may become one of your most valuable dwarves later.<br />
* Miner / Hammerdwarf. Mining makes dwarves strong and tough, and the [[Hammerdwarf]] skill is used for fighting with the Pick.<br />
<br />
=== Items ===<br />
<br />
Some basics are recommended for all builds. You definitely need to bring one [[pick]] for each [[miner]], some [[food]], and some [[alcohol]]. Everything else depends on your strategy and on how tough or leisurely a challenge you want the game to be.<br />
<br />
Note: Many builds recommend that you bring many different cheap foods, with quantities ending in a "1" or a "6". This is to maximize the number of [[barrels]] you start with, since most foodstuffs fit five to a barrel. More barrels will let you build a larger stockpile for your first winter and conserves the [[wood]] you harvest in the early game for beds and other necessities.<br />
<br />
== Fortress Sites ==<br />
Each fortress site offers particular challenges and opportunities. The starting builds below can and should be adjusted depending on the specific vision you have of your fortress ... and what it will take to stay [[losing|alive]] where you're going!<br />
<br />
=== Mountains ===<br />
Most dwarven fortresses are founded along the edges of mountain ranges on sites that combine abundant ore and access to the outside world. Magma and rare metals lure settlers here, but [[goblins]], [[chasm]] dwellers, and even [[giant eagle]]s are potent threats.<br />
<br />
Trees and plants do not grow at high elevations, so you'll want to include non-mountainous areas to obtain lumber and food - or, failing this, to pack a lot of extra food and logs.<br />
<br />
Other consideration is elevation range. The game allows access up to 15 levels above the highest peak and 15 levels below the deepest valley, so steeper slopes means much more diggable area. The downside is lag; more levels also means more CPU burden (this can cripple a fortress - be careful).<br />
<br />
Be sure to include a stream on the map; running water is (almost) essential for any fortress. In Cold and Freezing climates streams and lakes will often be frozen year-round and your dwarves may quickly die of exposure. Choose Temperate or tropical zones for an easier game.<br />
<br />
=== Wooded Plains (with trees and plants) ===<br />
Flatlands with at least some trees and gatherable plants can also make for highly successful fortresses. <br />
<br />
Advantages over mountain zones include abundant trees and plants, guaranteed agriculture both on the surface and underground, fewer hostile fortresses and caves, and (unless frozen) more abundant water. There are even (rare) magma vents.<br />
<br />
The greatest disadvantage is a lack of rock to mine. Fewer elevations means fewer exploitable z-levels. The first few levels below the surface are almost always soil, peat, loam, clay, or sand, none of which offers much (or any) gems, ore, or building material. An [[aquifer]], if present, may bar all access to stone until you freeze, pump out, or find a way through the water.<br />
<br />
=== Desert, Glaciers, and Barren (few or no trees and plants) ===<br />
Treeless (or near-treeless) biomes are challenging sites for a fortress: you get most of the disadvantages of a flatland site without having access to nearly as many trees and plants. However, near-lifeless zones such as glaciers are wonderful for those with slower machines, as there's little to burden the CPU but your dwarves and livestock. Deserts and barren areas often have sand; with a sufficient source of energy (preferably magma), you can build almost anything out of unlimited glass.<br />
<br />
=== Ocean Side ===<br />
An interesting combination of a few of the above locations, beaches are often a mix of ease intermingled with bouts of extreme difficulty. Minerals and trees are often abundant, as well as farmland and sand, but there is often no drinking water unless the biome has a river.<br />
There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Basic Build ==<br />
<br />
The first order of business is simply to survive. Here is a simple, somewhat paranoid, way to do this.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
On most (but not all) sites, you'll want to get food, brew drink, mine, make wood and stone items, and trade. Whatever additional skills you purchase, be sure to cover these. If you need more points to buy skills (and it's a good idea to buy lots of skills), remove a battle axe.<br />
<br />
* 2 miners<br />
* 1 mason/mechanic<br />
* 1 carpenter/woodcutter<br />
* 1 grower/brewer/cook. He's responsible for making prepared meals and drinks.<br />
* either a herbalist/grower, or a fisherdwarf, or a hunter. The first gets you lots of brewable plants on maps with plants, the second gets you food and bones on maps with water (in maps with dangerous fish such as [[carp]] fishing is suicidal so be careful), and the third gets you meat and bones on maps with animals. Herbalism is usually the safest of the three.<br />
* 1 spare dwarf. You might make him the leader and broker; if so, give him at least novice [[appraiser]] skill so you know what stuff is worth. You might make him responsible for making trade goods, or turn him into your first soldier, or you might just give him some skills you want to experiment with.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
You want picks, food, and drink. Everything else is optional. The suggestions below assume you spent the maximum possible on skills. We'll pack lots just to be safe.<br />
<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s - 1 per miner<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] - so you can chop wood<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - so you can make weapons, trade crafts, and such<br />
* 20 units of drink: [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]] are all good. [[dwarven wine]] you'll get through brewing.<br />
* 30 [[plump helmets]] - They're good to eat and produce 5 units of booze for each one brewed at a [[still]].<br />
* 5 turtles - they get you bones and shells<br />
* 20 [[plump helmet spawn]] - for planting.<br />
* 2 dogs - to guard against thieves and help kill intruders.<br />
* (optional) other kinds of seeds and rock nuts<br />
* (optional) 1 of many different kinds of meats for extra barrels<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
If the map is treeless, remove the battle axe and spend the freed points on more plump helmets and logs (you're going to run out however many you bring...).<br />
<br />
If you're willing to wait a year or two to do any metalworking and you're sure traders will come, remove the anvil and spend the freed points on such things as skills, food and drink, wood, leather, raw materials, or weapons.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== '''Rapid Expansion''' ===<br />
A plan for quick growth followed up by heavy immigration works well both as an early game strategy and as an assist for a late game foundation. Starting off with the anvil is also much less troublesome if you drop both battleaxes and make your own picks too. Don't worry though, you'll be digging out cavernous villas in no time, and cheaply too, with this build. Food and stone will be in abundance and you'll have excellent worker time utilization. And due to the early metalworking and distributed skills your dwarves have, soon you'll have powerful steel-armored warrior workers that'll form the bedrock of a city guard.<br />
<br />
Always build a wood burning furnace, Smelter and Metalsmith shop first, and take apart that wagon for extra logs. Either burn those logs into charcoal, or smelt coal into fuel, and then make your tools.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
By dropping both picks and axes you'll be able to afford a lot of useful skills, and you'll be able to get a metalsmithing shop running within the first seconds of your game, so no precious time is lost. Your Dwarves are divided largely into two groups, your laborers (Butcher, Baker and candle--er, Brewer) and your craftsdwarves. Essentially a Blue collar/White collar divide to set up a nice class war later. Also, by having such wide assortments of skills, your dwarves will get lots of attribute bonuses and become extremely capable fighters by the time you need to worry about that.<br />
<br />
Laborers are given mining and growing skills with some extra to cover food production. The Ranger is the oddball, but will spend his early days gathering plants and hauling items, so fits here. Your first order of business with them is to dig that top later out quickly and get some farms started and fully stocked. Then, as they grow, you can go back to digging out the rest of the base.<br />
<br />
* The Baker: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Cooking.<br />
* The Brewer: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Brewing.<br />
* The Butcher: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +1 Butchering, +1 Tanning, +1 Leatherworking. Make some bags for sand and the Quarry Bushes and a butcher's shop before the Ranger starts his hunts.<br />
<br />
* The Ranger: +3 Woodcutter, +3 Carpenter, +1 Herbalist, +1 Ambusher, +2 Axedwarf. Be sure to assign a war dog or two to this guy, since he's the only one who needs to go outside. Once he gets an axe, he'll also be a competent fighter and hunter and will start with armor due to +1 ambusher.<br />
<br />
Craftsdwarves focus on running shops, building trade goods, and making the outpost as profitable as possible in the first year, to attract additional immigrants that can be thrown into the mines or toil in the mushroom fields. They should have very broad skill bases, but the actual choice of leader is up to you.<br />
<br />
* The Smithy: +1 Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Metalsmith, Furnace Operator, Wood Burner, Stone Crafting, Bone Carving. This guy will cover all of your rarely needed creation skills, and make your picks and axes. After this he usually ends up making scads of stone crafts for sale. Glassworking, gem cutting, and potash making are good as well, and even with novice in all areas you'll build fast enough for these rare items.<br />
* The Foreman: +3 Building Design, +3 Mechanic, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper. Building design and mechanical work is extremely quick work, so instead give him nobleman skills to spend the rest of his work hours on. These are extremely useful in the long-term.<br />
* The Freemason: +5 Masonry. It seems a bit silly to give him just one primary skill, but Masons are usually working 24 hours a day on all variety of stone doors, chairs and tables.<br />
<br />
There's a variation if you want a more 'compact' design of those last two:<br />
<br />
* The Construction Worker: +5 Masonry, +3 Mechanic, +2 Building Design.<br />
* The Lazy Boss: +3 Fishing, +3 Fish Cleaning, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper.<br />
<br />
This is not as useful or safe, as Fishing is a time-intensive skill, so it takes him away from his record keeping job for extended periods and a Carp might kill him. It also forces your Mason to get behind on Queues every time someone needs a trap build or a workshop set up. Halting book-keeping doesn't slow down any production, so the original stat-spread can work out better.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
The only thing you need is your anvil, a few stones and bars of metal, everything else is optional. A point of contention is the Iron Axe you'll be making, as some may prefer it to be steel. Steel Bars cost 150, which is three times the cost of iron, and only provide a small damage bonus and no chopping speed bonus. If you start in an area with [[Limestone]] or [[Chalk]] you'll soon be able to smelt Steel with your functioning metalsmith shop anyway. If you're on a map without trees, well, I suppose you don't need the axe at all. But in that case you'd be better off taking the picks, dropping the anvil, and buying a few hundred logs.<br />
<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - this is what makes it all possible, and helps you get started faster.<br />
* 3 [[Copper|Copper bars]] - these cost 10 each, and will be your picks. Three for the price of one, literally.<br />
* 1 [[Iron|Iron bar]] - this costs 50, and will be your axe. The 40 extra is worth it for the damage increase you get over copper or bronze.<br />
* 2 [[Bituminous coal]] or [[Log]]s - you can smelt two coal into 4 fuel for the cost of 2 logs. Inexpensive at 3 each, one can afford to bring more.<br />
* 4 cheap stone - any sort works, such as inexpensive [[granite]]. You'll use these to make your first three buildings.<br />
<br />
That's what you need to get started, but this is a guide for the items on your list. This build does not require or recommend bringing plump helmets due to their cost. Instead, encourage your dwarves to eat the turtles and meat out of the barrels and cook wine biscuits. Your farms will be running amazingly quickly anyway, and for half the cost of a single helmet you can make feed several dwarves on baked beer. You'll get enough seeds from brewing the [[plump helmets]] soon enough.<br />
<br />
* 26 of [[Dwarven wine|Wine]], [[Dwarven rum|Rum]], [[Dwarven beer|Beer]] and [[Dwarven ale|Ale]]<br />
* 36 of [[rock nut]]s, [[Plump helmet spawn]] and [[Pig tail]] [[seeds]]<br />
* 11 [[turtle]]s - these hilarious little dudes are way better than the meat you usually set out with, what with all the bones they leave. I use these as 'before farming' rations and build up a good supply of bone bolts. Shells are also valuable to have around.<br />
* 1 of each other 2 cost meat, for extra empty barrels. Barrels cost 10, so getting any food below that can save you money.<br />
* 2 [[Dogs]] - preferably war dogs or hunting dogs. Assign these to your Ranger. Bring a pair so you can make more dogs.<br />
* 1 [[Horse]] - they're relatively inexpensive and will help you begin breeding horses faster, as you are nearly always getting a horse with your wagon. Livestock are a valuable commodity for meat and bones, and you want as many of these as possible 'emergency rations' on hand.<br />
* 4 [[Leather]] - you need leather bags to process [[quarry bush]]es and to gather sand for glass. Four will be enough, and you can get it for only 20.<br />
<br />
If you do it exactly as written, you will end up with a few points left over. Grab some extra food or upgrade one of your copper bars to an actual copper pick, if you want a faster start. These foodstuffs will last a very long time if managed properly, so get your farms going and start preparing for next year now.<br />
<br />
=== Metalbashing/Glassworking ===<br />
Heavy metalbashing and glassworking requires a site with 1) abundant fuel and 2) raw materials. Magma is ideal but large coal seams or a forest will also suffice. A site with either limestone or chalk means nearly unlimited steel. Any site with "sand" (not "loamy sand" or the like) will permit glassworking. Failing these, any place with lots of rock, trees, and preferably sand will work fine. Your biggest choice when setting up is whether to optimize for a fast start or long-term success.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & Skills ====<br />
Unless you're trying a low-skills challenge, each dwarf should get the maximum possible number (currently 10) of skill boosts; remove a battle axe to free up needed points. Individual preferences can be mighty handy; if you have a dwarf who likes steel, clear glass, crossbows, siege engine parts, or something else equally interesting, he's an ideal candidate for matching skills.<br />
<br />
* A Carpenter/Leader: Points into Carpenter, Wood Cutter, and a bunch of nobles' skills, including at least novice Negotiator and Appraiser. This dwarf should have good inter-personal thoughts/preferences.<br />
* A Mason/Mechanic: Points into Mason, Building Designer, and Mechanic. Adding more points to Mason gets construction materials and furniture faster. More points to Mechanic allows faster trap-setting. Adding Appraiser and/or Negotiator skills gives you a back-up leader or broker. A boost to Wrestling gets you better on-call defense.<br />
* A Farmer/Herbalist (assumes the site has at least some plants): This dwarf will gather the plant material you need to brew drinks. Points into Grower and Herbalist. Leftover skill raises should be invested in a valuable, hard to raise trade skill such as [[Blacksmith]], [[Metal_crafter|Metal Crafter]], or perhaps [[Glassmaker]] or [[Clothier]].<br />
* A Farmer/Brewer/Cook: This dwarf is responsible for keeping your community fed and liquored up. Points into Grower, Brewer, and (optionally) Cook. Leftover skill raises should be invested as for the Farmer/Herbalist.<br />
* A Craftsdwarf: Points into whatever hard-to-raise skills you most want. [[Armorsmith]], [[Weaponsmith]], [[Bowyer]], [[Glassmaker]], and even [[Siege_engineer|Siege Engineer]], [[Clothier]], or [[Gem_setter|Gem Setter]] can all be good choices depending on your setup. If you plan to bash metal, remember to spend a few points on Furnace Operator and (if needed) Wood Burning.<br />
* 2 Miners/Soldiers: Points into both mining and military skills. The miners first get legendary and then become extremely powerful fighters. Remember that it's much easier to increase Mining skill than most of the military skills (especially Armor User), but also that you'll want capable miners immediately.<br />
<br />
With this setup, you have several ways to make the trade goods you'll need to buy what you lack. Metal goblets, stone mugs, handwear, footwear, mechanisms, bone or wood crossbows, prepared meals, or bone and shell crafts are all solid choices.<br />
<br />
Food and drink for the first few seasons are assured by first cooking all the meat to free up barrels, then brewing your plump helmets (and any gathered plants) to make booze.<br />
<br />
==== Items (all starts) ====<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s<br />
* 6 or 11 of each of [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]]. With abundant brewable plants and lots of wood you don't actually need any starting booze, but it's nice to have a backup.<br />
* at least 11 [[plump helmet]]s. Bring a lot more if you anticipate problems with gathering brewable plants.<br />
* at least 6 [[turtle]]s. Not only are they good eating, they ensure you have the [[shell]]s and [[bone]]s needed to satisfy [[strange mood]]s.<br />
* 1 of every kind of meat that costs 2 or 4, as each type of meat will be packed in its own free barrel and cooking the meat will release that barrel for use. If you don't like this feature, bring more turtles or plump helmets instead.<br />
* Unless the map is glacial, or you intend only outdoor agriculture, bring plenty of seeds as well. A minimum of 15 plump helmet spawn are essential for a quick start to underground agriculture; rock nuts, sweet pod seeds, pig tail seeds, and cave wheat seeds will diversify your meals and drinks and let you set up for clothes-making. Seeds are packed in bags.<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
===== Items (fast start) =====<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]] - you'll save points by making it yourself.<br />
* only a few logs (just enough to get started with), unless the map has no trees<br />
<br />
See [[Make Your Own Weapons]] for more details on what to bring and how to make the battle axes you need to chop wood.<br />
<br />
===== Items (moderate start) =====<br />
Warning: Going without an anvil will slow you down until you get one in trade (which normally takes about 6 or 7 seasons) and might even cost you a failed [[strange mood]].<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] (at present, steel is the only option)<br />
* few or no logs, unless the map has no trees<br />
* with the points you save by not bringing an anvil, buy logs, bars of base metals you expect your site to lack, and (if needed) coal (for fuel and coke) and/or dolomite (for flux).<br />
<br />
===== Items (slow start) =====<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]]s<br />
* lots of logs - at least 25 on a heavily forested map. You can survive without them, but it's a lot cheaper to buy logs to make barrels than to bring more drink.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Free Equipment ===<br />
<br />
Dwarves who start with the ambusher skill get some leather armor, a crossbow and some bolts for free. <br />
<br />
<br />
=== Challenge Builds ===<br />
If you want a challenge try some [[Challenge_Builds]].<br />
<br />
{{Starting FAQ}}</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Starting_builds&diff=952340d:Starting builds2008-02-20T00:23:52Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''Starting builds''' are different strategies that you can choose when starting a new game in [[fortress mode]]. The skills and items which you assign to your dwarves will have a large impact on life in your new fortress, especially in its first year.<br />
<br />
This page gives advice on some of the many gameplay elements which influence the flow of your game based on your goals. These include: choosing a ''fortress site'', the ''starting build'' itself - defined by who and what to take with you - as well as ''challenge builds'' aimed at providing new or unusual challenges to advanced players.<br />
<br />
* Your First Fortress?<br />
Note: If you are a new player looking for a solid basis to survive the first couple of months or years, check out [[Your_first_fortress|this guide]]. It includes a basic starting build similar to the one discussed below.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Components of a Starting Build ==<br />
<br />
=== Skills ===<br />
<br />
Each dwarf can learn any of a large number of [[skills]]. <br />
<br />
* Dwarves with little experience in a skill will work slowly and ineffectively.<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced [[farming|farmers]] and [[herbalist|herbalists], for example, will harvest stacks of only one or two items or even nothing, waisting the seed/shrub. This results in a small overall harvest which takes many [[container#container|containers]] to store in, less effective food preparation in the kitchen, and more space needed for [[stockpiles]].<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced [[Miner|miners]] work very slowly. Mining can be levelled up quite quickly by mining [[soil#soil|soil]], but taking two dwarves with at least some points in mining is recommended in many cases.<br />
<br />
* Dwarves improve their skills on a learning-by-doing-basis. Dwarves who have specific labors enabled will, after a while, progress to Dabbling users of their skill, and continue to learn from performing that labor.<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced dwarves who create items in nearly all [[workshops#workshops|workshops]] will create low [[quality#quality|quality]] goods, and take a long time doing so. Skilled dwarves work quickly and produce high-quality items.<br />
<br />
* [[Quality]] is a central concept in the game - it affects [[food]] and [[alcohol]], almost anything you will have your dwarves create in the game: [[trading]] goods, [[barrel|barrels]], [[clothing]], [[armor]], [[furniture]], [[weapons]], and so on. Quality also very much affects the worth of an item while [[trading]].<br />
<br />
Overall, 'Levelling up' the dwarves' skills quickly is a good game goal to set. Doing so [[losing|may]] result in your dwarves efficiently creating a magnificent fortress filled to the brim with valuable items and furniture.<br />
<br />
Using and seeing high-quality items gives dwarves happy [[thoughts]]. This tends to increase a fortress' [[tantrum|longevity]].<br />
<br />
=== Which do I need, really? ===<br />
<br />
Most builds recommend:<br />
<br />
2 miners<br />
2 farmers<br />
mason<br />
mechanic<br />
carpenter<br />
woodcutter<br />
brewer<br />
cook<br />
herbalist<br />
plus some extra skills - to create trade goods, or build up a dwarven glass or steel industry.<br />
<br />
==== Combining Skills ====<br />
Some [[skills]] are highly time-consuming, and working at different jobs levels up specific [[attribute]]s. One could level up a miner until hes becomes mighty and ultra-tough - and then turn him into a soldier. If you plan on doing so, it may not be a good idea to give this guy another critical job such as Trader and Record Keeper, but maybe military skills depending on how soon you intend to have [[soldier]]s.<br />
<br />
Since tasks will take place in specific areas, it makes sense to combine tasks into dwarves who will take care of a specific industry - so Combine (indoor) farming with cooking (not mining), for example.<br />
<br />
Most builds recommend combinations such as:<br />
<br />
* Woodcutter/Carpenter. Add Axedwarf for added security.<br />
* Mason. Apparently, in most many fortresses, the Mason is a very busy man indeed. Recommendations include 'spare miner', 'rarely needed skills' or skills which are not very time-consuming.<br />
* Farmer/Cook, Farmer/Brewer. Basic two-person food team.<br />
* Farmer/Herbalist, Farmer/Brewer/Cook. One bold dwarf to farm and venture outside looking for wild plants, the other to keep busy in the still, kitchen, and indoor farms.<br />
* Noble/Boss: Novice [[Judge of intent]]/Novice [[Appraiser]]/Novice [[Organizer]]/Novice [[Record keeper]]. Combine this with a single time-intensive task such as Masonry or Mining, and optionally turn off all hauling tasks right at the start of the game. This results in an all-around Boss and Trader (who can usually be coerced into going to the trade depot and hold meetings just by turning the main profession off).<br />
* Craftsdwarf, depending on your strategy - e.g. [[glass]] maker, weapon smith or armor smith, sometimes combined with related tasks from that industry (furnace operating, wood burning). Typically an item hauler in the initial months of your fortress, this dwarf may become one of your most valuable dwarves later.<br />
* Miner / Hammerdwarf. Mining makes dwarves strong and tough, and the [[Hammerdwarf]] skill is used for fighting with the Pick.<br />
<br />
=== Items ===<br />
<br />
Some basics are recommended for all builds. You definitely need to bring one [[pick]] for each [[miner]], some [[food]], and some [[alcohol]]. Everything else depends on your strategy and on how tough or leisurely a challenge you want the game to be.<br />
<br />
Note: Many builds recommend that you bring many different cheap foods, with quantities ending in a "1" or a "6". This is to maximize the number of [[barrels]] you start with, since most foodstuffs fit five to a barrel. More barrels will let you build a larger stockpile for your first winter and conserves the [[wood]] you harvest in the early game for beds and other necessities.<br />
<br />
== Fortress Sites ==<br />
Each fortress site offers particular challenges and opportunities. The starting builds below can and should be adjusted depending on the specific vision you have of your fortress ... and what it will take to stay [[losing|alive]] where you're going!<br />
<br />
=== Mountains ===<br />
Most dwarven fortresses are founded along the edges of mountain ranges on sites that combine abundant ore and access to the outside world. Magma and rare metals lure settlers here, but [[goblins]], [[chasm]] dwellers, and even [[giant eagle]]s are potent threats.<br />
<br />
Trees and plants do not grow at high elevations, so you'll want to include non-mountainous areas to obtain lumber and food - or, failing this, to pack a lot of extra food and logs.<br />
<br />
Other consideration is elevation range. The game allows access up to 15 levels above the highest peak and 15 levels below the deepest valley, so steeper slopes means much more diggable area. The downside is lag; more levels also means more CPU burden (this can cripple a fortress - be careful).<br />
<br />
Be sure to include a stream on the map; running water is (almost) essential for any fortress. In Cold and Freezing climates streams and lakes will often be frozen year-round and your dwarves may quickly die of exposure. Choose Temperate or tropical zones for an easier game.<br />
<br />
=== Wooded Plains (with trees and plants) ===<br />
Flatlands with at least some trees and gatherable plants can also make for highly successful fortresses. <br />
<br />
Advantages over mountain zones include abundant trees and plants, guaranteed agriculture both on the surface and underground, fewer hostile fortresses and caves, and (unless frozen) more abundant water. There are even (rare) magma vents.<br />
<br />
The greatest disadvantage is a lack of rock to mine. Fewer elevations means fewer exploitable z-levels. The first few levels below the surface are almost always soil, peat, loam, clay, or sand, none of which offers much (or any) gems, ore, or building material. An [[aquifer]], if present, may bar all access to stone until you freeze, pump out, or find a way through the water.<br />
<br />
=== Desert, Glaciers, and Barren (few or no trees and plants) ===<br />
Treeless (or near-treeless) biomes are challenging sites for a fortress: you get most of the disadvantages of a flatland site without having access to nearly as many trees and plants. However, near-lifeless zones such as glaciers are wonderful for those with slower machines, as there's little to burden the CPU but your dwarves and livestock. Deserts and barren areas often have sand; with a sufficient source of energy (preferably magma), you can build almost anything out of unlimited glass.<br />
<br />
=== Ocean Side ===<br />
An interesting combination of a few of the above locations, beaches are often a mix of ease intermingled with bouts of extreme difficulty. Minerals and trees are often abundant, as well as farmland and sand, but there is often no drinking water unless the biome has a river.<br />
There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Basic Build ==<br />
<br />
The first order of business is simply to survive. Here is a simple, somewhat paranoid, way to do this.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
On most (but not all) sites, you'll want to get food, brew drink, mine, make wood and stone items, and trade. Whatever additional skills you purchase, be sure to cover these. If you need more points to buy skills (and it's a good idea to buy lots of skills), remove a battle axe.<br />
<br />
* 2 miners<br />
* 1 mason/mechanic<br />
* 1 carpenter/woodcutter<br />
* 1 grower/brewer/cook. He's responsible for making prepared meals and drinks.<br />
* either a herbalist/grower, or a fisherdwarf, or a hunter. The first gets you lots of brewable plants on maps with plants, the second gets you food and bones on maps with water (in maps with dangerous fish such as [[carp]] fishing is suicidal so be careful), and the third gets you meat and bones on maps with animals. Herbalism is usually the safest of the three.<br />
* 1 spare dwarf. You might make him the leader and broker; if so, give him at least novice [[appraiser]] skill so you know what stuff is worth. You might make him responsible for making trade goods, or turn him into your first soldier, or you might just give him some skills you want to experiment with.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
You want picks, food, and drink. Everything else is optional. The suggestions below assume you spent the maximum possible on skills. We'll pack lots just to be safe.<br />
<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s - 1 per miner<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] - so you can chop wood<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - so you can make weapons, trade crafts, and such<br />
* 20 units of drink: [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]] are all good. [[dwarven wine]] you'll get through brewing.<br />
* 30 [[plump helmets]] - They're good to eat and produce 5 units of booze for each one brewed at a [[still]].<br />
* 5 turtles - they get you bones and shells<br />
* 20 [[plump helmet spawn]] - for planting.<br />
* 2 dogs - to guard against thieves and help kill intruders.<br />
* (optional) other kinds of seeds and rock nuts<br />
* (optional) 1 of many different kinds of meats for extra barrels<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
If the map is treeless, remove the battle axe and spend the freed points on more plump helmets and logs (you're going to run out however many you bring...).<br />
<br />
If you're willing to wait a year or two to do any metalworking and you're sure traders will come, remove the anvil and spend the freed points on such things as skills, food and drink, wood, leather, raw materials, or weapons.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== '''Rapid Expansion''' ===<br />
A plan for quick growth followed up by heavy immigration works well both as an early game strategy and as an assist for a late game foundation. Starting off with the anvil is also much less troublesome if you drop both battleaxes and make your own picks too. Don't worry though, you'll be digging out cavernous villas in no time, and cheaply too, with this build. Food and stone will be in abundance and you'll have excellent worker time utilization. And due to the early metalworking and distributed skills your dwarves have, soon you'll have powerful steel-armored warrior workers that'll form the bedrock of a city guard.<br />
<br />
Always build a wood burning furnace, Smelter and Metalsmith shop first, and take apart that wagon for extra logs. Either burn those logs into charcoal, or smelt coal into fuel, and then make your tools.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
By dropping both picks and axes you'll be able to afford a lot of useful skills, and you'll be able to get a metalsmithing shop running within the first seconds of your game, so no precious time is lost. Your Dwarves are divided largely into two groups, your laborers (Butcher, Baker and candle--er, Brewer) and your craftsdwarves. Essentially a Blue collar/White collar divide to set up a nice class war later. Also, by having such wide assortments of skills, your dwarves will get lots of attribute bonuses and become extremely capable fighters by the time you need to worry about that.<br />
<br />
Laborers are given mining and growing skills with some extra to cover food production. The Ranger is the oddball, but will spend his early days gathering plants and hauling items, so fits here. Your first order of business with them is to dig that top later out quickly and get some farms started and fully stocked. Then, as they grow, you can go back to digging out the rest of the base.<br />
<br />
* The Baker: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Cooking.<br />
* The Brewer: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Brewing.<br />
* The Butcher: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +1 Butchering, +1 Tanning, +1 Leatherworking. Make some bags for sand and the Quarry Bushes and a butcher's shop before the Ranger starts his hunts.<br />
<br />
* The Ranger: +3 Woodcutter, +3 Carpenter, +1 Herbalist, +1 Ambusher, +2 Axedwarf. Be sure to assign a war dog or two to this guy, since he's the only one who needs to go outside. Once he gets an axe, he'll also be a competent fighter and hunter and will start with armor due to +1 ambusher.<br />
<br />
Craftsdwarves focus on running shops, building trade goods, and making the outpost as profitable as possible in the first year, to attract additional immigrants that can be thrown into the mines or toil in the mushroom fields. They should have very broad skill bases, but the actual choice of leader is up to you.<br />
<br />
* The Smithy: +1 Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Metalsmith, Furnace Operator, Wood Burner, Stone Crafting, Bone Carving. This guy will cover all of your rarely needed creation skills, and make your picks and axes. After this he usually ends up making scads of stone crafts for sale. Glassworking, gem cutting, and potash making are good as well, and even with novice in all areas you'll build fast enough for these rare items.<br />
* The Foreman: +3 Building Design, +3 Mechanic, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper. Building design and mechanical work is extremely quick work, so instead give him nobleman skills to spend the rest of his work hours on. These are extremely useful in the long-term.<br />
* The Freemason: +5 Masonry. It seems a bit silly to give him just one primary skill, but Masons are usually working 24 hours a day on all variety of stone doors, chairs and tables.<br />
<br />
There's a variation if you want a more 'compact' design of those last two:<br />
<br />
* The Construction Worker: +5 Masonry, +3 Mechanic, +2 Building Design.<br />
* The Lazy Boss: +3 Fishing, +3 Fish Cleaning, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper.<br />
<br />
This is not as useful or safe, as Fishing is a time-intensive skill, so it takes him away from his record keeping job for extended periods and a Carp might kill him. It also forces your Mason to get behind on Queues every time someone needs a trap build or a workshop set up. Halting book-keeping doesn't slow down any production, so the original stat-spread can work out better.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
The only thing you need is your anvil, a few stones and bars of metal, everything else is optional. A point of contention is the Iron Axe you'll be making, as some may prefer it to be steel. Steel Bars cost 150, which is three times the cost of iron, and only provide a small damage bonus and no chopping speed bonus. If you start in an area with [[Limestone]] or [[Chalk]] you'll soon be able to smelt Steel with your functioning metalsmith shop anyway. If you're on a map without trees, well, I suppose you don't need the axe at all. But in that case you'd be better off taking the picks, dropping the anvil, and buying a few hundred logs.<br />
<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - this is what makes it all possible, and helps you get started faster.<br />
* 3 [[Copper|Copper bars]] - these cost 10 each, and will be your picks. Three for the price of one, literally.<br />
* 1 [[Iron|Iron bar]] - this costs 50, and will be your axe. The 40 extra is worth it for the damage increase you get over copper or bronze.<br />
* 2 [[Bituminous coal]] or [[Log]]s - you can smelt two coal into 4 fuel for the cost of 2 logs. Inexpensive at 3 each, one can afford to bring more.<br />
* 4 cheap stone - any sort works, such as inexpensive [[granite]]. You'll use these to make your first three buildings.<br />
<br />
That's what you need to get started, but this is a guide for the items on your list. This build does not require or recommend bringing plump helmets due to their cost. Instead, encourage your dwarves to eat the turtles and meat out of the barrels and cook wine biscuits. Your farms will be running amazingly quickly anyway, and for half the cost of a single helmet you can make feed several dwarves on baked beer. You'll get enough seeds from brewing the [[plump helmets]] soon enough.<br />
<br />
* 26 of [[Dwarven wine|Wine]], [[Dwarven rum|Rum]], [[Dwarven beer|Beer]] and [[Dwarven ale|Ale]]<br />
* 36 of [[rock nut]]s, [[Plump helmet spawn]] and [[Pig tail]] [[seeds]]<br />
* 11 [[turtle]]s - these hilarious little dudes are way better than the meat you usually set out with, what with all the bones they leave. I use these as 'before farming' rations and build up a good supply of bone bolts. Shells are also valuable to have around.<br />
* 1 of each other 2 cost meat, for extra empty barrels. Barrels cost 10, so getting any food below that can save you money.<br />
* 2 [[Dogs]] - preferably war dogs or hunting dogs. Assign these to your Ranger. Bring a pair so you can make more dogs.<br />
* 1 [[Horse]] - they're relatively inexpensive and will help you begin breeding horses faster, as you are nearly always getting a horse with your wagon. Livestock are a valuable commodity for meat and bones, and you want as many of these as possible 'emergency rations' on hand.<br />
* 4 [[Leather]] - you need leather bags to process [[quarry bush]]es and to gather sand for glass. Four will be enough, and you can get it for only 20.<br />
<br />
If you do it exactly as written, you will end up with a few points left over. Grab some extra food or upgrade one of your copper bars to an actual copper pick, if you want a faster start. These foodstuffs will last a very long time if managed properly, so get your farms going and start preparing for next year now.<br />
<br />
=== Metalbashing/Glassworking ===<br />
Heavy metalbashing and glassworking requires a site with 1) abundant fuel and 2) raw materials. Magma is ideal but large coal seams or a forest will also suffice. A site with either limestone or chalk means nearly unlimited steel. Any site with "sand" (not "loamy sand" or the like) will permit glassworking. Failing these, any place with lots of rock, trees, and preferably sand will work fine. Your biggest choice when setting up is whether to optimize for a fast start or long-term success.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & Skills ====<br />
Unless you're trying a low-skills challenge, each dwarf should get the maximum possible number (currently 10) of skill boosts; remove a battle axe to free up needed points. Individual preferences can be mighty handy; if you have a dwarf who likes steel, clear glass, crossbows, siege engine parts, or something else equally interesting, he's an ideal candidate for matching skills.<br />
<br />
* A Carpenter/Leader: Points into Carpenter, Wood Cutter, and a bunch of nobles' skills, including at least novice Negotiator and Appraiser. This dwarf should have good inter-personal thoughts/preferences.<br />
* A Mason/Mechanic: Points into Mason, Building Designer, and Mechanic. Adding more points to Mason gets construction materials and furniture faster. More points to Mechanic allows faster trap-setting. Adding Appraiser and/or Negotiator skills gives you a back-up leader or broker. A boost to Wrestling gets you better on-call defense.<br />
* A Farmer/Herbalist (assumes the site has at least some plants): This dwarf will gather the plant material you need to brew drinks. Points into Grower and Herbalist. Leftover skill raises should be invested in a valuable, hard to raise trade skill such as [[Blacksmith]], [[Metal_crafter|Metal Crafter]], or perhaps [[Glassmaker]] or [[Clothier]].<br />
* A Farmer/Brewer/Cook: This dwarf is responsible for keeping your community fed and liquored up. Points into Grower, Brewer, and (optionally) Cook. Leftover skill raises should be invested as for the Farmer/Herbalist.<br />
* A Craftsdwarf: Points into whatever hard-to-raise skills you most want. [[Armorsmith]], [[Weaponsmith]], [[Bowyer]], [[Glassmaker]], and even [[Siege_engineer|Siege Engineer]], [[Clothier]], or [[Gem_setter|Gem Setter]] can all be good choices depending on your setup. If you plan to bash metal, remember to spend a few points on Furnace Operator and (if needed) Wood Burning.<br />
* 2 Miners/Soldiers: Points into both mining and military skills. The miners first get legendary and then become extremely powerful fighters. Remember that it's much easier to increase Mining skill than most of the military skills (especially Armor User), but also that you'll want capable miners immediately.<br />
<br />
With this setup, you have several ways to make the trade goods you'll need to buy what you lack. Metal goblets, stone mugs, handwear, footwear, mechanisms, bone or wood crossbows, prepared meals, or bone and shell crafts are all solid choices.<br />
<br />
Food and drink for the first few seasons are assured by first cooking all the meat to free up barrels, then brewing your plump helmets (and any gathered plants) to make booze.<br />
<br />
==== Items (all starts) ====<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s<br />
* 6 or 11 of each of [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]]. With abundant brewable plants and lots of wood you don't actually need any starting booze, but it's nice to have a backup.<br />
* at least 11 [[plump helmet]]s. Bring a lot more if you anticipate problems with gathering brewable plants.<br />
* at least 6 [[turtle]]s. Not only are they good eating, they ensure you have the [[shell]]s and [[bone]]s needed to satisfy [[strange mood]]s.<br />
* 1 of every kind of meat that costs 2 or 4, as each type of meat will be packed in its own free barrel and cooking the meat will release that barrel for use. If you don't like this feature, bring more turtles or plump helmets instead.<br />
* Unless the map is glacial, or you intend only outdoor agriculture, bring plenty of seeds as well. A minimum of 15 plump helmet spawn are essential for a quick start to underground agriculture; rock nuts, sweet pod seeds, pig tail seeds, and cave wheat seeds will diversify your meals and drinks and let you set up for clothes-making. Seeds are packed in bags.<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
===== Items (fast start) =====<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]] - you'll save points by making it yourself.<br />
* only a few logs (just enough to get started with), unless the map has no trees<br />
<br />
See [[Make Your Own Weapons]] for more details on what to bring and how to make the battle axes you need to chop wood.<br />
<br />
===== Items (moderate start) =====<br />
Warning: Going without an anvil will slow you down until you get one in trade (which normally takes about 6 or 7 seasons) and might even cost you a failed [[strange mood]].<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] (at present, steel is the only option)<br />
* few or no logs, unless the map has no trees<br />
* with the points you save by not bringing an anvil, buy logs, bars of base metals you expect your site to lack, and (if needed) coal (for fuel and coke) and/or dolomite (for flux).<br />
<br />
===== Items (slow start) =====<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]]s<br />
* lots of logs - at least 25 on a heavily forested map. You can survive without them, but it's a lot cheaper to buy logs to make barrels than to bring more drink.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Free Equipment ===<br />
<br />
Dwarves who start with the ambusher skill get some leather armor, a crossbow and some bolts for free. <br />
<br />
<br />
=== Challenge Builds ===<br />
If you want a challenge try some [[Challenge_Builds]].<br />
<br />
{{Starting FAQ}}</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Starting_builds&diff=952140d:Starting builds2008-02-19T22:19:49Z<p>Samyotix: /* Combining Skills */</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Starting builds''' are different strategies that you can choose when starting a new game in [[fortress mode]]. The skills and items which you assign to your dwarves will have a large impact on life in your new fortress, especially in its first year.<br />
<br />
This page gives advice on some of the many gameplay elements which influence the flow of your game based on your goals. These include: choosing a ''fortress site'', the ''starting build'' itself - defined by who and what to take with you - as well as ''challenge builds'' aimed at providing new or unusual challenges to advanced players.<br />
<br />
* Your First Fortress?<br />
Note: If you are a new player looking for solid basis to survive the first couple of months or years, check out [[Your_first_fortress|this guide]]. It includes a basic starting build similar to the one discussed below.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Components of a Starting Build ==<br />
<br />
=== Skills ===<br />
<br />
Each dwarf can learn any of a large number of [[skills]]. <br />
<br />
* Dwarves with little experience in a skill will work slowly and ineffectively.<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced [[farming|farmers]] and [[herbalist|herbalists], for example, will crush many plants and only sometimes harvest one or two items. This results in a small overall harvest which takes many [[container#container|containers]] to store in, less effective food preparation in the kitchen, and more space needed for [[stockpiles]].<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced [[Miner|miners]] work very slowly. Mining can be levelled up quite quickly by mining [[soil#soil|soil]], but taking two dwarves with at least some points in mining is recommended in many cases.<br />
<br />
* Dwarves improve their skills on a learning-by-doing-basis. Dwarves who have specific labors enabled will, after a while, progress to Dabbling users of their skill, and continue to learn from performing that labor.<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced dwarves who create items in nearly all [[workshops#workshops|workshops]] will create low [[quality#quality|quality]] goods, and take a long time doing so. Skilled dwarves work quickly and produce high-quality items.<br />
<br />
* [[Quality]] is a central concept in the game - it affects [[food]] and [[alcohol]], almost anything you will have your dwarves create in the game: [[trading]] goods, [[barrel|barrels]], [[clothing]], [[armor]], [[furniture]], [[weapons]], and so on. Quality also very much affects the worth of an item while [[trading]].<br />
<br />
Overall, 'Levelling up' the dwarves' skills quickly is a good game goal to set. Doing so [[losing|may]] result your dwarves efficiently creating a magnificent fortress filled to the brim with valuable items and furniture.<br />
<br />
Using and seeing high-quality items gives dwarves happy [[thoughts]]. This tends to increase a fortress' [[tantrum|longevity]].<br />
<br />
=== Which do I need, really? ===<br />
<br />
Most builds recommend:<br />
<br />
2 miners<br />
2 farmers<br />
mason<br />
mechanic<br />
carpenter<br />
woodcutter<br />
brewer<br />
cook<br />
herbalist<br />
plus some extra skills - to create trade goods, or build up a dwarven glass or steel industry.<br />
<br />
==== Combining Skills ====<br />
Some [[skills]] are highly time-consuming, and working at different jobs levels up specific [[attribute]]s. One could level up a miner until hes becomes mighty and ultra-tough - and then turn him into a soldier. If you plan on doing so, it may not be a good idea to give this guy another critical job such as Trader and Record Keeper, but maybe military skills depending on how soon you intend to have [[soldier]]s.<br />
<br />
Since tasks will take place in specific areas, it makes sense to combine tasks into dwarves who will take care of a specific industry - so Combine (indoor) farming with cooking (not mining), for example.<br />
<br />
Most builds recommend combinations such as:<br />
<br />
* Woodcutter/Carpenter. Add Axedwarf for added security.<br />
* Mason. Apparently, in most many fortresses, the Mason is a very busy man indeed. Recommendations include 'spare miner', 'rarely needed skills' or skills which are not very time-consuming.<br />
* Farmer/Cook, Farmer/Brewer. Basic two-person food team.<br />
* Farmer/Herbalist, Farmer/Brewer/Cook. One bold dwarf to farm and venture outside looking for wild plants, the other to keep busy in the still, kitchen, and indoor farms.<br />
* Noble/Boss: Novice [[Judge of intent]]/Novice [[Appraiser]]/Novice [[Organizer]]/Novice [[Record keeper]]. Combine this with a single time-intensive task such as Masonry or Mining, and optionally turn off all hauling tasks right at the start of the game. This results in an all-around Boss and Trader (who can usually be coerced into going to the trade depot and hold meetings just by turning the main profession off).<br />
* Craftsdwarf, depending on your strategy - e.g. [[glass]] maker, weapon smith or armor smith, sometimes combined with related tasks from that industry (furnace operating, wood burning). Typically an item hauler in the initial months of your fortress, this dwarf may become one of your most valuable dwarves later.<br />
* Miner / Hammerdwarf. Mining makes dwarves strong and tough, and the [[Hammerdwarf]] skill is used for fighting with the Pick.<br />
<br />
=== Items ===<br />
<br />
Some basics are recommended for all builds. You definitely need to bring one [[pick]] for each [[miner]], some [[food]], and some [[alcohol]]. Everything else depends on your strategy and on how tough or leisurely a challenge you want the game to be.<br />
<br />
Note: Many builds recommend that you bring many different cheap foods, with quantities ending in a "1" or a "6". This is to maximize the number of [[barrels]] you start with, since most foodstuffs fit five to a barrel. More barrels will let you build a larger stockpile for your first winter and conserves the [[wood]] you harvest in the early game for beds and other necessities.<br />
<br />
== Fortress Sites ==<br />
Each fortress site offers particular challenges and opportunities. The starting builds below can and should be adjusted depending on the specific vision you have of your fortress ... and what it will take to stay [[losing|alive]] where you're going!<br />
<br />
=== Mountains ===<br />
Most dwarven fortresses are founded along the edges of mountain ranges on sites that combine abundant ore and access to the outside world. Magma and rare metals lure settlers here, but [[goblins]], [[chasm]] dwellers, and even [[giant eagle]]s are potent threats.<br />
<br />
Trees and plants do not grow at high elevations, so you'll want to include non-mountainous areas to obtain lumber and food - or, failing this, to pack a lot of extra food and logs.<br />
<br />
Other consideration is elevation range. The game allows access up to 15 levels above the highest peak and 15 levels below the deepest valley, so steeper slopes means much more diggable area. The downside is lag; more levels also means more CPU burden (this can cripple a fortress - be careful).<br />
<br />
Be sure to include a stream on the map; running water is (almost) essential for any fortress. In Cold and Freezing climates streams and lakes will often be frozen year-round and your dwarves may quickly die of exposure. Choose Temperate or tropical zones for an easier game.<br />
<br />
=== Wooded Plains (with trees and plants) ===<br />
Flatlands with at least some trees and gatherable plants can also make for highly successful fortresses. <br />
<br />
Advantages over mountain zones include abundant trees and plants, guaranteed agriculture both on the surface and underground, fewer hostile fortresses and caves, and (unless frozen) more abundant water. There are even (rare) magma vents.<br />
<br />
The greatest disadvantage is a lack of rock to mine. Fewer elevations means fewer exploitable z-levels. The first few levels below the surface are almost always soil, peat, loam, clay, or sand, none of which offers much (or any) gems, ore, or building material. An [[aquifer]], if present, may bar all access to stone until you freeze, pump out, or find a way through the water.<br />
<br />
=== Desert, Glaciers, and Barren (few or no trees and plants) ===<br />
Treeless (or near-treeless) biomes are challenging sites for a fortress: you get most of the disadvantages of a flatland site without having access to nearly as many trees and plants. However, near-lifeless zones such as glaciers are wonderful for those with slower machines, as there's little to burden the CPU but your dwarves and livestock. Deserts and barren areas often have sand; with a sufficient source of energy (preferably magma), you can build almost anything out of unlimited glass.<br />
<br />
=== Ocean Side ===<br />
An interesting combination of a few of the above locations, beaches are often a mix of ease intermingled with bouts of extreme difficulty. Minerals and trees are often abundant, as well as farmland and sand, but there is often no drinking water unless the biome has a river.<br />
There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Basic Build ==<br />
<br />
The first order of business is simply to survive. Here is a simple, somewhat paranoid, way to do this.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
On most (but not all) sites, you'll want to get food, brew drink, mine, make wood and stone items, and trade. Whatever additional skills you purchase, be sure to cover these. If you need more points to buy skills (and it's a good idea to buy lots of skills), remove a battle axe.<br />
<br />
* 2 miners<br />
* 1 mason/mechanic<br />
* 1 carpenter/woodcutter<br />
* 1 grower/brewer/cook. He's responsible for making prepared meals and drinks.<br />
* either a herbalist/grower, or a fisherdwarf, or a hunter. The first gets you lots of brewable plants on maps with plants, the second gets you food and bones on maps with water (in maps with dangerous fish such as [[carp]] fishing is suicidal so be careful), and the third gets you meat and bones on maps with animals. Herbalism is usually the safest of the three.<br />
* 1 spare dwarf. You might make him the leader and broker; if so, give him at least novice [[appraiser]] skill so you know what stuff is worth. You might make him responsible for making trade goods, or turn him into your first soldier, or you might just give him some skills you want to experiment with.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
You want picks, food, and drink. Everything else is optional. The suggestions below assume you spent the maximum possible on skills. We'll pack lots just to be safe.<br />
<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s - 1 per miner<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] - so you can chop wood<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - so you can make weapons, trade crafts, and such<br />
* 20 units of drink: [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]] are all good. [[dwarven wine]] you'll get through brewing.<br />
* 30 [[plump helmets]] - They're good to eat and produce 5 units of booze for each one brewed at a [[still]].<br />
* 5 turtles - they get you bones and shells<br />
* 20 [[plump helmet spawn]] - for planting.<br />
* 2 dogs - to guard against thieves and help kill intruders.<br />
* (optional) other kinds of seeds and rock nuts<br />
* (optional) 1 of many different kinds of meats for extra barrels<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
If the map is treeless, remove the battle axe and spend the freed points on more plump helmets and logs (you're going to run out however many you bring...).<br />
<br />
If you're willing to wait a year or two to do any metalworking and you're sure traders will come, remove the anvil and spend the freed points on such things as skills, food and drink, wood, leather, raw materials, or weapons.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== '''Rapid Expansion''' ===<br />
A plan for quick growth followed up by heavy immigration works well both as an early game strategy and as an assist for a late game foundation. Starting off with the anvil is also much less troublesome if you drop both battleaxes and make your own picks too. Don't worry though, you'll be digging out cavernous villas in no time, and cheaply too, with this build. Food and stone will be in abundance and you'll have excellent worker time utilization. And due to the early metalworking and distributed skills your dwarves have, soon you'll have powerful steel-armored warrior workers that'll form the bedrock of a city guard.<br />
<br />
Always build a wood burning furnace, Smelter and Metalsmith shop first, and take apart that wagon for extra logs. Either burn those logs into charcoal, or smelt coal into fuel, and then make your tools.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
By dropping both picks and axes you'll be able to afford a lot of useful skills, and you'll be able to get a metalsmithing shop running within the first seconds of your game, so no precious time is lost. Your Dwarves are divided largely into two groups, your laborers (Butcher, Baker and candle--er, Brewer) and your craftsdwarves. Essentially a Blue collar/White collar divide to set up a nice class war later. Also, by having such wide assortments of skills, your dwarves will get lots of attribute bonuses and become extremely capable fighters by the time you need to worry about that.<br />
<br />
Laborers are given mining and growing skills with some extra to cover food production. The Ranger is the oddball, but will spend his early days gathering plants and hauling items, so fits here. Your first order of business with them is to dig that top later out quickly and get some farms started and fully stocked. Then, as they grow, you can go back to digging out the rest of the base.<br />
<br />
* The Baker: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Cooking.<br />
* The Brewer: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Brewing.<br />
* The Butcher: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +1 Butchering, +1 Tanning, +1 Leatherworking. Make some bags for sand and the Quarry Bushes and a butcher's shop before the Ranger starts his hunts.<br />
<br />
* The Ranger: +3 Woodcutter, +3 Carpenter, +1 Herbalist, +1 Ambusher, +2 Axedwarf. Be sure to assign a war dog or two to this guy, since he's the only one who needs to go outside. Once he gets an axe, he'll also be a competent fighter and hunter and will start with armor due to +1 ambusher.<br />
<br />
Craftsdwarves focus on running shops, building trade goods, and making the outpost as profitable as possible in the first year, to attract additional immigrants that can be thrown into the mines or toil in the mushroom fields. They should have very broad skill bases, but the actual choice of leader is up to you.<br />
<br />
* The Smithy: +1 Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Metalsmith, Furnace Operator, Wood Burner, Stone Crafting, Bone Carving. This guy will cover all of your rarely needed creation skills, and make your picks and axes. After this he usually ends up making scads of stone crafts for sale. Glassworking, gem cutting, and potash making are good as well, and even with novice in all areas you'll build fast enough for these rare items.<br />
* The Foreman: +3 Building Design, +3 Mechanic, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper. Building design and mechanical work is extremely quick work, so instead give him nobleman skills to spend the rest of his work hours on. These are extremely useful in the long-term.<br />
* The Freemason: +5 Masonry. It seems a bit silly to give him just one primary skill, but Masons are usually working 24 hours a day on all variety of stone doors, chairs and tables.<br />
<br />
There's a variation if you want a more 'compact' design of those last two:<br />
<br />
* The Construction Worker: +5 Masonry, +3 Mechanic, +2 Building Design.<br />
* The Lazy Boss: +3 Fishing, +3 Fish Cleaning, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper.<br />
<br />
This is not as useful or safe, as Fishing is a time-intensive skill, so it takes him away from his record keeping job for extended periods and a Carp might kill him. It also forces your Mason to get behind on Queues every time someone needs a trap build or a workshop set up. Halting book-keeping doesn't slow down any production, so the original stat-spread can work out better.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
The only thing you need is your anvil, a few stones and bars of metal, everything else is optional. A point of contention is the Iron Axe you'll be making, as some may prefer it to be steel. Steel Bars cost 150, which is three times the cost of iron, and only provide a small damage bonus and no chopping speed bonus. If you start in an area with [[Limestone]] or [[Chalk]] you'll soon be able to smelt Steel with your functioning metalsmith shop anyway. If you're on a map without trees, well, I suppose you don't need the axe at all. But in that case you'd be better off taking the picks, dropping the anvil, and buying a few hundred logs.<br />
<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - this is what makes it all possible, and helps you get started faster.<br />
* 3 [[Copper|Copper bars]] - these cost 10 each, and will be your picks. Three for the price of one, literally.<br />
* 1 [[Iron|Iron bar]] - this costs 50, and will be your axe. The 40 extra is worth it for the damage increase you get over copper or bronze.<br />
* 2 [[Bituminous coal]] or [[Log]]s - you can smelt two coal into 4 fuel for the cost of 2 logs. Inexpensive at 3 each, one can afford to bring more.<br />
* 4 cheap stone - any sort works, such as inexpensive [[granite]]. You'll use these to make your first three buildings.<br />
<br />
That's what you need to get started, but this is a guide for the items on your list. This build does not require or recommend bringing plump helmets due to their cost. Instead, encourage your dwarves to eat the turtles and meat out of the barrels and cook wine biscuits. Your farms will be running amazingly quickly anyway, and for half the cost of a single helmet you can make feed several dwarves on baked beer. You'll get enough seeds from brewing the [[plump helmets]] soon enough.<br />
<br />
* 26 of [[Dwarven wine|Wine]], [[Dwarven rum|Rum]], [[Dwarven beer|Beer]] and [[Dwarven ale|Ale]]<br />
* 36 of [[rock nut]]s, [[Plump helmet spawn]] and [[Pig tail]] [[seeds]]<br />
* 11 [[turtle]]s - these hilarious little dudes are way better than the meat you usually set out with, what with all the bones they leave. I use these as 'before farming' rations and build up a good supply of bone bolts. Shells are also valuable to have around.<br />
* 1 of each other 2 cost meat, for extra empty barrels. Barrels cost 10, so getting any food below that can save you money.<br />
* 2 [[Dogs]] - preferably war dogs or hunting dogs. Assign these to your Ranger. Bring a pair so you can make more dogs.<br />
* 1 [[Horse]] - they're relatively inexpensive and will help you begin breeding horses faster, as you are nearly always getting a horse with your wagon. Livestock are a valuable commodity for meat and bones, and you want as many of these as possible 'emergency rations' on hand.<br />
* 4 [[Leather]] - you need leather bags to process [[quarry bush]]es and to gather sand for glass. Four will be enough, and you can get it for only 20.<br />
<br />
If you do it exactly as written, you will end up with a few points left over. Grab some extra food or upgrade one of your copper bars to an actual copper pick, if you want a faster start. These foodstuffs will last a very long time if managed properly, so get your farms going and start preparing for next year now.<br />
<br />
=== Metalbashing/Glassworking ===<br />
Heavy metalbashing and glassworking requires a site with 1) abundant fuel and 2) raw materials. Magma is ideal but large coal seams or a forest will also suffice. A site with either limestone or chalk means nearly unlimited steel. Any site with "sand" (not "loamy sand" or the like) will permit glassworking. Failing these, any place with lots of rock, trees, and preferably sand will work fine. Your biggest choice when setting up is whether to optimize for a fast start or long-term success.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & Skills ====<br />
Unless you're trying a low-skills challenge, each dwarf should get the maximum possible number (currently 10) of skill boosts; remove a battle axe to free up needed points. Individual preferences can be mighty handy; if you have a dwarf who likes steel, clear glass, crossbows, siege engine parts, or something else equally interesting, he's an ideal candidate for matching skills.<br />
<br />
* A Carpenter/Leader: Points into Carpenter, Wood Cutter, and a bunch of nobles' skills, including at least novice Negotiator and Appraiser. This dwarf should have good inter-personal thoughts/preferences.<br />
* A Mason/Mechanic: Points into Mason, Building Designer, and Mechanic. Adding more points to Mason gets construction materials and furniture faster. More points to Mechanic allows faster trap-setting. Adding Appraiser and/or Negotiator skills gives you a back-up leader or broker. A boost to Wrestling gets you better on-call defense.<br />
* A Farmer/Herbalist (assumes the site has at least some plants): This dwarf will gather the plant material you need to brew drinks. Points into Grower and Herbalist. Leftover skill raises should be invested in a valuable, hard to raise trade skill such as [[Blacksmith]], [[Metal_crafter|Metal Crafter]], or perhaps [[Glassmaker]] or [[Clothier]].<br />
* A Farmer/Brewer/Cook: This dwarf is responsible for keeping your community fed and liquored up. Points into Grower, Brewer, and (optionally) Cook. Leftover skill raises should be invested as for the Farmer/Herbalist.<br />
* A Craftsdwarf: Points into whatever hard-to-raise skills you most want. [[Armorsmith]], [[Weaponsmith]], [[Bowyer]], [[Glassmaker]], and even [[Siege_engineer|Siege Engineer]], [[Clothier]], or [[Gem_setter|Gem Setter]] can all be good choices depending on your setup. If you plan to bash metal, remember to spend a few points on Furnace Operator and (if needed) Wood Burning.<br />
* 2 Miners/Soldiers: Points into both mining and military skills. The miners first get legendary and then become extremely powerful fighters. Remember that it's much easier to increase Mining skill than most of the military skills (especially Armor User), but also that you'll want capable miners immediately.<br />
<br />
With this setup, you have several ways to make the trade goods you'll need to buy what you lack. Metal goblets, stone mugs, handwear, footwear, mechanisms, bone or wood crossbows, prepared meals, or bone and shell crafts are all solid choices.<br />
<br />
Food and drink for the first few seasons are assured by first cooking all the meat to free up barrels, then brewing your plump helmets (and any gathered plants) to make booze.<br />
<br />
==== Items (all starts) ====<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s<br />
* 6 or 11 of each of [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]]. With abundant brewable plants and lots of wood you don't actually need any starting booze, but it's nice to have a backup.<br />
* at least 11 [[plump helmet]]s. Bring a lot more if you anticipate problems with gathering brewable plants.<br />
* at least 6 [[turtle]]s. Not only are they good eating, they ensure you have the [[shell]]s and [[bone]]s needed to satisfy [[strange mood]]s.<br />
* 1 of every kind of meat that costs 2 or 4, as each type of meat will be packed in its own free barrel and cooking the meat will release that barrel for use. If you don't like this feature, bring more turtles or plump helmets instead.<br />
* Unless the map is glacial, or you intend only outdoor agriculture, bring plenty of seeds as well. A minimum of 15 plump helmet spawn are essential for a quick start to underground agriculture; rock nuts, sweet pod seeds, pig tail seeds, and cave wheat seeds will diversify your meals and drinks and let you set up for clothes-making. Seeds are packed in bags.<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
===== Items (fast start) =====<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]] - you'll save points by making it yourself.<br />
* only a few logs (just enough to get started with), unless the map has no trees<br />
<br />
See [[Make Your Own Weapons]] for more details on what to bring and how to make the battle axes you need to chop wood.<br />
<br />
===== Items (moderate start) =====<br />
Warning: Going without an anvil will slow you down until you get one in trade (which normally takes about 6 or 7 seasons) and might even cost you a failed [[strange mood]].<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] (at present, steel is the only option)<br />
* few or no logs, unless the map has no trees<br />
* with the points you save by not bringing an anvil, buy logs, bars of base metals you expect your site to lack, and (if needed) coal (for fuel and coke) and/or dolomite (for flux).<br />
<br />
===== Items (slow start) =====<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]]s<br />
* lots of logs - at least 25 on a heavily forested map. You can survive without them, but it's a lot cheaper to buy logs to make barrels than to bring more drink.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Free Equipment ===<br />
<br />
Dwarves who start with the ambusher skill get some leather armor, a crossbow and some bolts for free. <br />
<br />
<br />
=== Challenge Builds ===<br />
If you want a challenge try some [[Challenge_Builds]].<br />
<br />
{{Starting FAQ}}</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Starting_builds&diff=952040d:Starting builds2008-02-19T22:19:18Z<p>Samyotix: /* Combining Skills */</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Starting builds''' are different strategies that you can choose when starting a new game in [[fortress mode]]. The skills and items which you assign to your dwarves will have a large impact on life in your new fortress, especially in its first year.<br />
<br />
This page gives advice on some of the many gameplay elements which influence the flow of your game based on your goals. These include: choosing a ''fortress site'', the ''starting build'' itself - defined by who and what to take with you - as well as ''challenge builds'' aimed at providing new or unusual challenges to advanced players.<br />
<br />
* Your First Fortress?<br />
Note: If you are a new player looking for solid basis to survive the first couple of months or years, check out [[Your_first_fortress|this guide]]. It includes a basic starting build similar to the one discussed below.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Components of a Starting Build ==<br />
<br />
=== Skills ===<br />
<br />
Each dwarf can learn any of a large number of [[skills]]. <br />
<br />
* Dwarves with little experience in a skill will work slowly and ineffectively.<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced [[farming|farmers]] and [[herbalist|herbalists], for example, will crush many plants and only sometimes harvest one or two items. This results in a small overall harvest which takes many [[container#container|containers]] to store in, less effective food preparation in the kitchen, and more space needed for [[stockpiles]].<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced [[Miner|miners]] work very slowly. Mining can be levelled up quite quickly by mining [[soil#soil|soil]], but taking two dwarves with at least some points in mining is recommended in many cases.<br />
<br />
* Dwarves improve their skills on a learning-by-doing-basis. Dwarves who have specific labors enabled will, after a while, progress to Dabbling users of their skill, and continue to learn from performing that labor.<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced dwarves who create items in nearly all [[workshops#workshops|workshops]] will create low [[quality#quality|quality]] goods, and take a long time doing so. Skilled dwarves work quickly and produce high-quality items.<br />
<br />
* [[Quality]] is a central concept in the game - it affects [[food]] and [[alcohol]], almost anything you will have your dwarves create in the game: [[trading]] goods, [[barrel|barrels]], [[clothing]], [[armor]], [[furniture]], [[weapons]], and so on. Quality also very much affects the worth of an item while [[trading]].<br />
<br />
Overall, 'Levelling up' the dwarves' skills quickly is a good game goal to set. Doing so [[losing|may]] result your dwarves efficiently creating a magnificent fortress filled to the brim with valuable items and furniture.<br />
<br />
Using and seeing high-quality items gives dwarves happy [[thoughts]]. This tends to increase a fortress' [[tantrum|longevity]].<br />
<br />
=== Which do I need, really? ===<br />
<br />
Most builds recommend:<br />
<br />
2 miners<br />
2 farmers<br />
mason<br />
mechanic<br />
carpenter<br />
woodcutter<br />
brewer<br />
cook<br />
herbalist<br />
plus some extra skills - to create trade goods, or build up a dwarven glass or steel industry.<br />
<br />
==== Combining Skills ====<br />
Some [[skills]] are highly time-consuming, and working at different jobs levels up specific [[attribute]]s. One could level up a miner until hes becomes mighty and ultra-tough - and then turn him into a soldier. If you plan on doing so, it may not be a good idea to give this guy another critical job such as Trader and Record Keeper, but maybe military skills depending on how soon you intend to have [[soldier]]s.<br />
<br />
Since tasks will take place in specific areas, it makes sense to combine tasks into dwarves who will take care of a specific industry - so Combine (indoor) farming with cooking (not mining), for example.<br />
<br />
Most builds recommend combinations such as:<br />
<br />
* Woodcutter/Carpenter. Add Axedwarf for added security.<br />
* Mason. Apparently, in most many fortresses, the Mason is a very busy man indeed. Recommendations include 'spare miner', 'rarely needed skills' or skills which are not very time-consuming.<br />
* Farmer/Cook, Farmer/Brewer. Basic two-person food team.<br />
* Farmer/Herbalist, Farmer/Brewer/Cook. One bold dwarf to farm and venture outside looking for wild plants, the other to keep busy in the still, kitchen, and indoor farms.<br />
* Noble/Boss: Novice [[Judge of intent]]/Novice [[Appraiser]]/Novice [[Organizer]]/Novice [[Record keeper]]. Combine this with a single time-intensive task such as Masonry or Mining, and optionally turn off all hauling tasks right at the start of the game. This results in an all-around Boss and Trader (who can usually be coerced into going to the trade depot and hold meetings just by turning the main profession off).<br />
* Craftsdwarf, depending on your strategy - e.g. [[glass]] maker, weapon smith or armor smith, sometiomes combined with related tasks from that industry (furnace operating, wood burning). Typically an item hauler in the initial months of your fortress, this dwarf may become one of your most valuable dwarves later.<br />
* Miner / Hammerdwarf. Mining makes dwarves strong and tough, and the Hammerdwarf skill is used for the Pick.<br />
<br />
=== Items ===<br />
<br />
Some basics are recommended for all builds. You definitely need to bring one [[pick]] for each [[miner]], some [[food]], and some [[alcohol]]. Everything else depends on your strategy and on how tough or leisurely a challenge you want the game to be.<br />
<br />
Note: Many builds recommend that you bring many different cheap foods, with quantities ending in a "1" or a "6". This is to maximize the number of [[barrels]] you start with, since most foodstuffs fit five to a barrel. More barrels will let you build a larger stockpile for your first winter and conserves the [[wood]] you harvest in the early game for beds and other necessities.<br />
<br />
== Fortress Sites ==<br />
Each fortress site offers particular challenges and opportunities. The starting builds below can and should be adjusted depending on the specific vision you have of your fortress ... and what it will take to stay [[losing|alive]] where you're going!<br />
<br />
=== Mountains ===<br />
Most dwarven fortresses are founded along the edges of mountain ranges on sites that combine abundant ore and access to the outside world. Magma and rare metals lure settlers here, but [[goblins]], [[chasm]] dwellers, and even [[giant eagle]]s are potent threats.<br />
<br />
Trees and plants do not grow at high elevations, so you'll want to include non-mountainous areas to obtain lumber and food - or, failing this, to pack a lot of extra food and logs.<br />
<br />
Other consideration is elevation range. The game allows access up to 15 levels above the highest peak and 15 levels below the deepest valley, so steeper slopes means much more diggable area. The downside is lag; more levels also means more CPU burden (this can cripple a fortress - be careful).<br />
<br />
Be sure to include a stream on the map; running water is (almost) essential for any fortress. In Cold and Freezing climates streams and lakes will often be frozen year-round and your dwarves may quickly die of exposure. Choose Temperate or tropical zones for an easier game.<br />
<br />
=== Wooded Plains (with trees and plants) ===<br />
Flatlands with at least some trees and gatherable plants can also make for highly successful fortresses. <br />
<br />
Advantages over mountain zones include abundant trees and plants, guaranteed agriculture both on the surface and underground, fewer hostile fortresses and caves, and (unless frozen) more abundant water. There are even (rare) magma vents.<br />
<br />
The greatest disadvantage is a lack of rock to mine. Fewer elevations means fewer exploitable z-levels. The first few levels below the surface are almost always soil, peat, loam, clay, or sand, none of which offers much (or any) gems, ore, or building material. An [[aquifer]], if present, may bar all access to stone until you freeze, pump out, or find a way through the water.<br />
<br />
=== Desert, Glaciers, and Barren (few or no trees and plants) ===<br />
Treeless (or near-treeless) biomes are challenging sites for a fortress: you get most of the disadvantages of a flatland site without having access to nearly as many trees and plants. However, near-lifeless zones such as glaciers are wonderful for those with slower machines, as there's little to burden the CPU but your dwarves and livestock. Deserts and barren areas often have sand; with a sufficient source of energy (preferably magma), you can build almost anything out of unlimited glass.<br />
<br />
=== Ocean Side ===<br />
An interesting combination of a few of the above locations, beaches are often a mix of ease intermingled with bouts of extreme difficulty. Minerals and trees are often abundant, as well as farmland and sand, but there is often no drinking water unless the biome has a river.<br />
There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Basic Build ==<br />
<br />
The first order of business is simply to survive. Here is a simple, somewhat paranoid, way to do this.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
On most (but not all) sites, you'll want to get food, brew drink, mine, make wood and stone items, and trade. Whatever additional skills you purchase, be sure to cover these. If you need more points to buy skills (and it's a good idea to buy lots of skills), remove a battle axe.<br />
<br />
* 2 miners<br />
* 1 mason/mechanic<br />
* 1 carpenter/woodcutter<br />
* 1 grower/brewer/cook. He's responsible for making prepared meals and drinks.<br />
* either a herbalist/grower, or a fisherdwarf, or a hunter. The first gets you lots of brewable plants on maps with plants, the second gets you food and bones on maps with water (in maps with dangerous fish such as [[carp]] fishing is suicidal so be careful), and the third gets you meat and bones on maps with animals. Herbalism is usually the safest of the three.<br />
* 1 spare dwarf. You might make him the leader and broker; if so, give him at least novice [[appraiser]] skill so you know what stuff is worth. You might make him responsible for making trade goods, or turn him into your first soldier, or you might just give him some skills you want to experiment with.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
You want picks, food, and drink. Everything else is optional. The suggestions below assume you spent the maximum possible on skills. We'll pack lots just to be safe.<br />
<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s - 1 per miner<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] - so you can chop wood<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - so you can make weapons, trade crafts, and such<br />
* 20 units of drink: [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]] are all good. [[dwarven wine]] you'll get through brewing.<br />
* 30 [[plump helmets]] - They're good to eat and produce 5 units of booze for each one brewed at a [[still]].<br />
* 5 turtles - they get you bones and shells<br />
* 20 [[plump helmet spawn]] - for planting.<br />
* 2 dogs - to guard against thieves and help kill intruders.<br />
* (optional) other kinds of seeds and rock nuts<br />
* (optional) 1 of many different kinds of meats for extra barrels<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
If the map is treeless, remove the battle axe and spend the freed points on more plump helmets and logs (you're going to run out however many you bring...).<br />
<br />
If you're willing to wait a year or two to do any metalworking and you're sure traders will come, remove the anvil and spend the freed points on such things as skills, food and drink, wood, leather, raw materials, or weapons.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== '''Rapid Expansion''' ===<br />
A plan for quick growth followed up by heavy immigration works well both as an early game strategy and as an assist for a late game foundation. Starting off with the anvil is also much less troublesome if you drop both battleaxes and make your own picks too. Don't worry though, you'll be digging out cavernous villas in no time, and cheaply too, with this build. Food and stone will be in abundance and you'll have excellent worker time utilization. And due to the early metalworking and distributed skills your dwarves have, soon you'll have powerful steel-armored warrior workers that'll form the bedrock of a city guard.<br />
<br />
Always build a wood burning furnace, Smelter and Metalsmith shop first, and take apart that wagon for extra logs. Either burn those logs into charcoal, or smelt coal into fuel, and then make your tools.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
By dropping both picks and axes you'll be able to afford a lot of useful skills, and you'll be able to get a metalsmithing shop running within the first seconds of your game, so no precious time is lost. Your Dwarves are divided largely into two groups, your laborers (Butcher, Baker and candle--er, Brewer) and your craftsdwarves. Essentially a Blue collar/White collar divide to set up a nice class war later. Also, by having such wide assortments of skills, your dwarves will get lots of attribute bonuses and become extremely capable fighters by the time you need to worry about that.<br />
<br />
Laborers are given mining and growing skills with some extra to cover food production. The Ranger is the oddball, but will spend his early days gathering plants and hauling items, so fits here. Your first order of business with them is to dig that top later out quickly and get some farms started and fully stocked. Then, as they grow, you can go back to digging out the rest of the base.<br />
<br />
* The Baker: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Cooking.<br />
* The Brewer: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Brewing.<br />
* The Butcher: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +1 Butchering, +1 Tanning, +1 Leatherworking. Make some bags for sand and the Quarry Bushes and a butcher's shop before the Ranger starts his hunts.<br />
<br />
* The Ranger: +3 Woodcutter, +3 Carpenter, +1 Herbalist, +1 Ambusher, +2 Axedwarf. Be sure to assign a war dog or two to this guy, since he's the only one who needs to go outside. Once he gets an axe, he'll also be a competent fighter and hunter and will start with armor due to +1 ambusher.<br />
<br />
Craftsdwarves focus on running shops, building trade goods, and making the outpost as profitable as possible in the first year, to attract additional immigrants that can be thrown into the mines or toil in the mushroom fields. They should have very broad skill bases, but the actual choice of leader is up to you.<br />
<br />
* The Smithy: +1 Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Metalsmith, Furnace Operator, Wood Burner, Stone Crafting, Bone Carving. This guy will cover all of your rarely needed creation skills, and make your picks and axes. After this he usually ends up making scads of stone crafts for sale. Glassworking, gem cutting, and potash making are good as well, and even with novice in all areas you'll build fast enough for these rare items.<br />
* The Foreman: +3 Building Design, +3 Mechanic, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper. Building design and mechanical work is extremely quick work, so instead give him nobleman skills to spend the rest of his work hours on. These are extremely useful in the long-term.<br />
* The Freemason: +5 Masonry. It seems a bit silly to give him just one primary skill, but Masons are usually working 24 hours a day on all variety of stone doors, chairs and tables.<br />
<br />
There's a variation if you want a more 'compact' design of those last two:<br />
<br />
* The Construction Worker: +5 Masonry, +3 Mechanic, +2 Building Design.<br />
* The Lazy Boss: +3 Fishing, +3 Fish Cleaning, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper.<br />
<br />
This is not as useful or safe, as Fishing is a time-intensive skill, so it takes him away from his record keeping job for extended periods and a Carp might kill him. It also forces your Mason to get behind on Queues every time someone needs a trap build or a workshop set up. Halting book-keeping doesn't slow down any production, so the original stat-spread can work out better.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
The only thing you need is your anvil, a few stones and bars of metal, everything else is optional. A point of contention is the Iron Axe you'll be making, as some may prefer it to be steel. Steel Bars cost 150, which is three times the cost of iron, and only provide a small damage bonus and no chopping speed bonus. If you start in an area with [[Limestone]] or [[Chalk]] you'll soon be able to smelt Steel with your functioning metalsmith shop anyway. If you're on a map without trees, well, I suppose you don't need the axe at all. But in that case you'd be better off taking the picks, dropping the anvil, and buying a few hundred logs.<br />
<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - this is what makes it all possible, and helps you get started faster.<br />
* 3 [[Copper|Copper bars]] - these cost 10 each, and will be your picks. Three for the price of one, literally.<br />
* 1 [[Iron|Iron bar]] - this costs 50, and will be your axe. The 40 extra is worth it for the damage increase you get over copper or bronze.<br />
* 2 [[Bituminous coal]] or [[Log]]s - you can smelt two coal into 4 fuel for the cost of 2 logs. Inexpensive at 3 each, one can afford to bring more.<br />
* 4 cheap stone - any sort works, such as inexpensive [[granite]]. You'll use these to make your first three buildings.<br />
<br />
That's what you need to get started, but this is a guide for the items on your list. This build does not require or recommend bringing plump helmets due to their cost. Instead, encourage your dwarves to eat the turtles and meat out of the barrels and cook wine biscuits. Your farms will be running amazingly quickly anyway, and for half the cost of a single helmet you can make feed several dwarves on baked beer. You'll get enough seeds from brewing the [[plump helmets]] soon enough.<br />
<br />
* 26 of [[Dwarven wine|Wine]], [[Dwarven rum|Rum]], [[Dwarven beer|Beer]] and [[Dwarven ale|Ale]]<br />
* 36 of [[rock nut]]s, [[Plump helmet spawn]] and [[Pig tail]] [[seeds]]<br />
* 11 [[turtle]]s - these hilarious little dudes are way better than the meat you usually set out with, what with all the bones they leave. I use these as 'before farming' rations and build up a good supply of bone bolts. Shells are also valuable to have around.<br />
* 1 of each other 2 cost meat, for extra empty barrels. Barrels cost 10, so getting any food below that can save you money.<br />
* 2 [[Dogs]] - preferably war dogs or hunting dogs. Assign these to your Ranger. Bring a pair so you can make more dogs.<br />
* 1 [[Horse]] - they're relatively inexpensive and will help you begin breeding horses faster, as you are nearly always getting a horse with your wagon. Livestock are a valuable commodity for meat and bones, and you want as many of these as possible 'emergency rations' on hand.<br />
* 4 [[Leather]] - you need leather bags to process [[quarry bush]]es and to gather sand for glass. Four will be enough, and you can get it for only 20.<br />
<br />
If you do it exactly as written, you will end up with a few points left over. Grab some extra food or upgrade one of your copper bars to an actual copper pick, if you want a faster start. These foodstuffs will last a very long time if managed properly, so get your farms going and start preparing for next year now.<br />
<br />
=== Metalbashing/Glassworking ===<br />
Heavy metalbashing and glassworking requires a site with 1) abundant fuel and 2) raw materials. Magma is ideal but large coal seams or a forest will also suffice. A site with either limestone or chalk means nearly unlimited steel. Any site with "sand" (not "loamy sand" or the like) will permit glassworking. Failing these, any place with lots of rock, trees, and preferably sand will work fine. Your biggest choice when setting up is whether to optimize for a fast start or long-term success.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & Skills ====<br />
Unless you're trying a low-skills challenge, each dwarf should get the maximum possible number (currently 10) of skill boosts; remove a battle axe to free up needed points. Individual preferences can be mighty handy; if you have a dwarf who likes steel, clear glass, crossbows, siege engine parts, or something else equally interesting, he's an ideal candidate for matching skills.<br />
<br />
* A Carpenter/Leader: Points into Carpenter, Wood Cutter, and a bunch of nobles' skills, including at least novice Negotiator and Appraiser. This dwarf should have good inter-personal thoughts/preferences.<br />
* A Mason/Mechanic: Points into Mason, Building Designer, and Mechanic. Adding more points to Mason gets construction materials and furniture faster. More points to Mechanic allows faster trap-setting. Adding Appraiser and/or Negotiator skills gives you a back-up leader or broker. A boost to Wrestling gets you better on-call defense.<br />
* A Farmer/Herbalist (assumes the site has at least some plants): This dwarf will gather the plant material you need to brew drinks. Points into Grower and Herbalist. Leftover skill raises should be invested in a valuable, hard to raise trade skill such as [[Blacksmith]], [[Metal_crafter|Metal Crafter]], or perhaps [[Glassmaker]] or [[Clothier]].<br />
* A Farmer/Brewer/Cook: This dwarf is responsible for keeping your community fed and liquored up. Points into Grower, Brewer, and (optionally) Cook. Leftover skill raises should be invested as for the Farmer/Herbalist.<br />
* A Craftsdwarf: Points into whatever hard-to-raise skills you most want. [[Armorsmith]], [[Weaponsmith]], [[Bowyer]], [[Glassmaker]], and even [[Siege_engineer|Siege Engineer]], [[Clothier]], or [[Gem_setter|Gem Setter]] can all be good choices depending on your setup. If you plan to bash metal, remember to spend a few points on Furnace Operator and (if needed) Wood Burning.<br />
* 2 Miners/Soldiers: Points into both mining and military skills. The miners first get legendary and then become extremely powerful fighters. Remember that it's much easier to increase Mining skill than most of the military skills (especially Armor User), but also that you'll want capable miners immediately.<br />
<br />
With this setup, you have several ways to make the trade goods you'll need to buy what you lack. Metal goblets, stone mugs, handwear, footwear, mechanisms, bone or wood crossbows, prepared meals, or bone and shell crafts are all solid choices.<br />
<br />
Food and drink for the first few seasons are assured by first cooking all the meat to free up barrels, then brewing your plump helmets (and any gathered plants) to make booze.<br />
<br />
==== Items (all starts) ====<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s<br />
* 6 or 11 of each of [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]]. With abundant brewable plants and lots of wood you don't actually need any starting booze, but it's nice to have a backup.<br />
* at least 11 [[plump helmet]]s. Bring a lot more if you anticipate problems with gathering brewable plants.<br />
* at least 6 [[turtle]]s. Not only are they good eating, they ensure you have the [[shell]]s and [[bone]]s needed to satisfy [[strange mood]]s.<br />
* 1 of every kind of meat that costs 2 or 4, as each type of meat will be packed in its own free barrel and cooking the meat will release that barrel for use. If you don't like this feature, bring more turtles or plump helmets instead.<br />
* Unless the map is glacial, or you intend only outdoor agriculture, bring plenty of seeds as well. A minimum of 15 plump helmet spawn are essential for a quick start to underground agriculture; rock nuts, sweet pod seeds, pig tail seeds, and cave wheat seeds will diversify your meals and drinks and let you set up for clothes-making. Seeds are packed in bags.<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
===== Items (fast start) =====<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]] - you'll save points by making it yourself.<br />
* only a few logs (just enough to get started with), unless the map has no trees<br />
<br />
See [[Make Your Own Weapons]] for more details on what to bring and how to make the battle axes you need to chop wood.<br />
<br />
===== Items (moderate start) =====<br />
Warning: Going without an anvil will slow you down until you get one in trade (which normally takes about 6 or 7 seasons) and might even cost you a failed [[strange mood]].<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] (at present, steel is the only option)<br />
* few or no logs, unless the map has no trees<br />
* with the points you save by not bringing an anvil, buy logs, bars of base metals you expect your site to lack, and (if needed) coal (for fuel and coke) and/or dolomite (for flux).<br />
<br />
===== Items (slow start) =====<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]]s<br />
* lots of logs - at least 25 on a heavily forested map. You can survive without them, but it's a lot cheaper to buy logs to make barrels than to bring more drink.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Free Equipment ===<br />
<br />
Dwarves who start with the ambusher skill get some leather armor, a crossbow and some bolts for free. <br />
<br />
<br />
=== Challenge Builds ===<br />
If you want a challenge try some [[Challenge_Builds]].<br />
<br />
{{Starting FAQ}}</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Starting_builds&diff=951940d:Starting builds2008-02-19T22:17:16Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''Starting builds''' are different strategies that you can choose when starting a new game in [[fortress mode]]. The skills and items which you assign to your dwarves will have a large impact on life in your new fortress, especially in its first year.<br />
<br />
This page gives advice on some of the many gameplay elements which influence the flow of your game based on your goals. These include: choosing a ''fortress site'', the ''starting build'' itself - defined by who and what to take with you - as well as ''challenge builds'' aimed at providing new or unusual challenges to advanced players.<br />
<br />
* Your First Fortress?<br />
Note: If you are a new player looking for solid basis to survive the first couple of months or years, check out [[Your_first_fortress|this guide]]. It includes a basic starting build similar to the one discussed below.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Components of a Starting Build ==<br />
<br />
=== Skills ===<br />
<br />
Each dwarf can learn any of a large number of [[skills]]. <br />
<br />
* Dwarves with little experience in a skill will work slowly and ineffectively.<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced [[farming|farmers]] and [[herbalist|herbalists], for example, will crush many plants and only sometimes harvest one or two items. This results in a small overall harvest which takes many [[container#container|containers]] to store in, less effective food preparation in the kitchen, and more space needed for [[stockpiles]].<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced [[Miner|miners]] work very slowly. Mining can be levelled up quite quickly by mining [[soil#soil|soil]], but taking two dwarves with at least some points in mining is recommended in many cases.<br />
<br />
* Dwarves improve their skills on a learning-by-doing-basis. Dwarves who have specific labors enabled will, after a while, progress to Dabbling users of their skill, and continue to learn from performing that labor.<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced dwarves who create items in nearly all [[workshops#workshops|workshops]] will create low [[quality#quality|quality]] goods, and take a long time doing so. Skilled dwarves work quickly and produce high-quality items.<br />
<br />
* [[Quality]] is a central concept in the game - it affects [[food]] and [[alcohol]], almost anything you will have your dwarves create in the game: [[trading]] goods, [[barrel|barrels]], [[clothing]], [[armor]], [[furniture]], [[weapons]], and so on. Quality also very much affects the worth of an item while [[trading]].<br />
<br />
Overall, 'Levelling up' the dwarves' skills quickly is a good game goal to set. Doing so [[losing|may]] result your dwarves efficiently creating a magnificent fortress filled to the brim with valuable items and furniture.<br />
<br />
Using and seeing high-quality items gives dwarves happy [[thoughts]]. This tends to increase a fortress' [[tantrum|longevity]].<br />
<br />
=== Which do I need, really? ===<br />
<br />
Most builds recommend:<br />
<br />
2 miners<br />
2 farmers<br />
mason<br />
mechanic<br />
carpenter<br />
woodcutter<br />
brewer<br />
cook<br />
herbalist<br />
plus some extra skills - to create trade goods, or build up a dwarven glass or steel industry.<br />
<br />
==== Combining Skills ====<br />
Some [[skills]] are highly time-consuming, and working at different jobs levels up specific [[attribute]]s. One could level up a miner until hes becomes mighty and ultra-tough - and then turn him into a soldier. If you plan on doing so, it may not be a good idea to give this guy another critical job such as Trader and Record Keeper, but maybe military skills depending on how soon you intend to have [[soldier]]s.<br />
<br />
Since tasks will take place in specific areas, it makes sense to combine tasks into dwarves who will take care of a specific industry - so Combine (indoor) farming with cooking (not mining), for example.<br />
<br />
Most builds recommend combinations such as:<br />
<br />
* Woodcutter/Carpenter. Add Axedwarf for added security.<br />
* Mason. Apparently, in most many fortresses, the Mason is a very busy man indeed.<br />
* Farmer/Cook, Farmer/Brewer. Basic two-person food team.<br />
* Farmer/Herbalist, Farmer/Brewer/Cook. One bold dwarf to farm and venture outside looking for wild plants, the other to keep busy in the still, kitchen, and indoor farms.<br />
* Noble/Boss: Novice [[Judge of intent]]/Novice [[Appraiser]]/Novice [[Organizer]]/Novice [[Record keeper]]. Combine this with a single time-intensive task such as Masonry or Mining, and optionally turn off all hauling tasks right at the start of the game. This results in an all-around Boss and Trader (who can usually be coerced into going to the trade depot and hold meetings just by turning the main profession off).<br />
* Craftsdwarf, depending on your strategy - e.g. [[glass]] maker, weapon smith or armor smith, sometiomes combined with related tasks from that industry (furnace operating, wood burning). Typically an item hauler in the initial months of your fortress, this dwarf may become one of your most valuable dwarves later.<br />
* Miner / Hammerdwarf. Mining makes dwarves strong and tough, and the Hammerdwarf skill is used for the Pick.<br />
<br />
=== Items ===<br />
<br />
Some basics are recommended for all builds. You definitely need to bring one [[pick]] for each [[miner]], some [[food]], and some [[alcohol]]. Everything else depends on your strategy and on how tough or leisurely a challenge you want the game to be.<br />
<br />
Note: Many builds recommend that you bring many different cheap foods, with quantities ending in a "1" or a "6". This is to maximize the number of [[barrels]] you start with, since most foodstuffs fit five to a barrel. More barrels will let you build a larger stockpile for your first winter and conserves the [[wood]] you harvest in the early game for beds and other necessities.<br />
<br />
== Fortress Sites ==<br />
Each fortress site offers particular challenges and opportunities. The starting builds below can and should be adjusted depending on the specific vision you have of your fortress ... and what it will take to stay [[losing|alive]] where you're going!<br />
<br />
=== Mountains ===<br />
Most dwarven fortresses are founded along the edges of mountain ranges on sites that combine abundant ore and access to the outside world. Magma and rare metals lure settlers here, but [[goblins]], [[chasm]] dwellers, and even [[giant eagle]]s are potent threats.<br />
<br />
Trees and plants do not grow at high elevations, so you'll want to include non-mountainous areas to obtain lumber and food - or, failing this, to pack a lot of extra food and logs.<br />
<br />
Other consideration is elevation range. The game allows access up to 15 levels above the highest peak and 15 levels below the deepest valley, so steeper slopes means much more diggable area. The downside is lag; more levels also means more CPU burden (this can cripple a fortress - be careful).<br />
<br />
Be sure to include a stream on the map; running water is (almost) essential for any fortress. In Cold and Freezing climates streams and lakes will often be frozen year-round and your dwarves may quickly die of exposure. Choose Temperate or tropical zones for an easier game.<br />
<br />
=== Wooded Plains (with trees and plants) ===<br />
Flatlands with at least some trees and gatherable plants can also make for highly successful fortresses. <br />
<br />
Advantages over mountain zones include abundant trees and plants, guaranteed agriculture both on the surface and underground, fewer hostile fortresses and caves, and (unless frozen) more abundant water. There are even (rare) magma vents.<br />
<br />
The greatest disadvantage is a lack of rock to mine. Fewer elevations means fewer exploitable z-levels. The first few levels below the surface are almost always soil, peat, loam, clay, or sand, none of which offers much (or any) gems, ore, or building material. An [[aquifer]], if present, may bar all access to stone until you freeze, pump out, or find a way through the water.<br />
<br />
=== Desert, Glaciers, and Barren (few or no trees and plants) ===<br />
Treeless (or near-treeless) biomes are challenging sites for a fortress: you get most of the disadvantages of a flatland site without having access to nearly as many trees and plants. However, near-lifeless zones such as glaciers are wonderful for those with slower machines, as there's little to burden the CPU but your dwarves and livestock. Deserts and barren areas often have sand; with a sufficient source of energy (preferably magma), you can build almost anything out of unlimited glass.<br />
<br />
=== Ocean Side ===<br />
An interesting combination of a few of the above locations, beaches are often a mix of ease intermingled with bouts of extreme difficulty. Minerals and trees are often abundant, as well as farmland and sand, but there is often no drinking water unless the biome has a river.<br />
There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Basic Build ==<br />
<br />
The first order of business is simply to survive. Here is a simple, somewhat paranoid, way to do this.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
On most (but not all) sites, you'll want to get food, brew drink, mine, make wood and stone items, and trade. Whatever additional skills you purchase, be sure to cover these. If you need more points to buy skills (and it's a good idea to buy lots of skills), remove a battle axe.<br />
<br />
* 2 miners<br />
* 1 mason/mechanic<br />
* 1 carpenter/woodcutter<br />
* 1 grower/brewer/cook. He's responsible for making prepared meals and drinks.<br />
* either a herbalist/grower, or a fisherdwarf, or a hunter. The first gets you lots of brewable plants on maps with plants, the second gets you food and bones on maps with water (in maps with dangerous fish such as [[carp]] fishing is suicidal so be careful), and the third gets you meat and bones on maps with animals. Herbalism is usually the safest of the three.<br />
* 1 spare dwarf. You might make him the leader and broker; if so, give him at least novice [[appraiser]] skill so you know what stuff is worth. You might make him responsible for making trade goods, or turn him into your first soldier, or you might just give him some skills you want to experiment with.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
You want picks, food, and drink. Everything else is optional. The suggestions below assume you spent the maximum possible on skills. We'll pack lots just to be safe.<br />
<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s - 1 per miner<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] - so you can chop wood<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - so you can make weapons, trade crafts, and such<br />
* 20 units of drink: [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]] are all good. [[dwarven wine]] you'll get through brewing.<br />
* 30 [[plump helmets]] - They're good to eat and produce 5 units of booze for each one brewed at a [[still]].<br />
* 5 turtles - they get you bones and shells<br />
* 20 [[plump helmet spawn]] - for planting.<br />
* 2 dogs - to guard against thieves and help kill intruders.<br />
* (optional) other kinds of seeds and rock nuts<br />
* (optional) 1 of many different kinds of meats for extra barrels<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
If the map is treeless, remove the battle axe and spend the freed points on more plump helmets and logs (you're going to run out however many you bring...).<br />
<br />
If you're willing to wait a year or two to do any metalworking and you're sure traders will come, remove the anvil and spend the freed points on such things as skills, food and drink, wood, leather, raw materials, or weapons.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== '''Rapid Expansion''' ===<br />
A plan for quick growth followed up by heavy immigration works well both as an early game strategy and as an assist for a late game foundation. Starting off with the anvil is also much less troublesome if you drop both battleaxes and make your own picks too. Don't worry though, you'll be digging out cavernous villas in no time, and cheaply too, with this build. Food and stone will be in abundance and you'll have excellent worker time utilization. And due to the early metalworking and distributed skills your dwarves have, soon you'll have powerful steel-armored warrior workers that'll form the bedrock of a city guard.<br />
<br />
Always build a wood burning furnace, Smelter and Metalsmith shop first, and take apart that wagon for extra logs. Either burn those logs into charcoal, or smelt coal into fuel, and then make your tools.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
By dropping both picks and axes you'll be able to afford a lot of useful skills, and you'll be able to get a metalsmithing shop running within the first seconds of your game, so no precious time is lost. Your Dwarves are divided largely into two groups, your laborers (Butcher, Baker and candle--er, Brewer) and your craftsdwarves. Essentially a Blue collar/White collar divide to set up a nice class war later. Also, by having such wide assortments of skills, your dwarves will get lots of attribute bonuses and become extremely capable fighters by the time you need to worry about that.<br />
<br />
Laborers are given mining and growing skills with some extra to cover food production. The Ranger is the oddball, but will spend his early days gathering plants and hauling items, so fits here. Your first order of business with them is to dig that top later out quickly and get some farms started and fully stocked. Then, as they grow, you can go back to digging out the rest of the base.<br />
<br />
* The Baker: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Cooking.<br />
* The Brewer: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Brewing.<br />
* The Butcher: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +1 Butchering, +1 Tanning, +1 Leatherworking. Make some bags for sand and the Quarry Bushes and a butcher's shop before the Ranger starts his hunts.<br />
<br />
* The Ranger: +3 Woodcutter, +3 Carpenter, +1 Herbalist, +1 Ambusher, +2 Axedwarf. Be sure to assign a war dog or two to this guy, since he's the only one who needs to go outside. Once he gets an axe, he'll also be a competent fighter and hunter and will start with armor due to +1 ambusher.<br />
<br />
Craftsdwarves focus on running shops, building trade goods, and making the outpost as profitable as possible in the first year, to attract additional immigrants that can be thrown into the mines or toil in the mushroom fields. They should have very broad skill bases, but the actual choice of leader is up to you.<br />
<br />
* The Smithy: +1 Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Metalsmith, Furnace Operator, Wood Burner, Stone Crafting, Bone Carving. This guy will cover all of your rarely needed creation skills, and make your picks and axes. After this he usually ends up making scads of stone crafts for sale. Glassworking, gem cutting, and potash making are good as well, and even with novice in all areas you'll build fast enough for these rare items.<br />
* The Foreman: +3 Building Design, +3 Mechanic, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper. Building design and mechanical work is extremely quick work, so instead give him nobleman skills to spend the rest of his work hours on. These are extremely useful in the long-term.<br />
* The Freemason: +5 Masonry. It seems a bit silly to give him just one primary skill, but Masons are usually working 24 hours a day on all variety of stone doors, chairs and tables.<br />
<br />
There's a variation if you want a more 'compact' design of those last two:<br />
<br />
* The Construction Worker: +5 Masonry, +3 Mechanic, +2 Building Design.<br />
* The Lazy Boss: +3 Fishing, +3 Fish Cleaning, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper.<br />
<br />
This is not as useful or safe, as Fishing is a time-intensive skill, so it takes him away from his record keeping job for extended periods and a Carp might kill him. It also forces your Mason to get behind on Queues every time someone needs a trap build or a workshop set up. Halting book-keeping doesn't slow down any production, so the original stat-spread can work out better.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
The only thing you need is your anvil, a few stones and bars of metal, everything else is optional. A point of contention is the Iron Axe you'll be making, as some may prefer it to be steel. Steel Bars cost 150, which is three times the cost of iron, and only provide a small damage bonus and no chopping speed bonus. If you start in an area with [[Limestone]] or [[Chalk]] you'll soon be able to smelt Steel with your functioning metalsmith shop anyway. If you're on a map without trees, well, I suppose you don't need the axe at all. But in that case you'd be better off taking the picks, dropping the anvil, and buying a few hundred logs.<br />
<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - this is what makes it all possible, and helps you get started faster.<br />
* 3 [[Copper|Copper bars]] - these cost 10 each, and will be your picks. Three for the price of one, literally.<br />
* 1 [[Iron|Iron bar]] - this costs 50, and will be your axe. The 40 extra is worth it for the damage increase you get over copper or bronze.<br />
* 2 [[Bituminous coal]] or [[Log]]s - you can smelt two coal into 4 fuel for the cost of 2 logs. Inexpensive at 3 each, one can afford to bring more.<br />
* 4 cheap stone - any sort works, such as inexpensive [[granite]]. You'll use these to make your first three buildings.<br />
<br />
That's what you need to get started, but this is a guide for the items on your list. This build does not require or recommend bringing plump helmets due to their cost. Instead, encourage your dwarves to eat the turtles and meat out of the barrels and cook wine biscuits. Your farms will be running amazingly quickly anyway, and for half the cost of a single helmet you can make feed several dwarves on baked beer. You'll get enough seeds from brewing the [[plump helmets]] soon enough.<br />
<br />
* 26 of [[Dwarven wine|Wine]], [[Dwarven rum|Rum]], [[Dwarven beer|Beer]] and [[Dwarven ale|Ale]]<br />
* 36 of [[rock nut]]s, [[Plump helmet spawn]] and [[Pig tail]] [[seeds]]<br />
* 11 [[turtle]]s - these hilarious little dudes are way better than the meat you usually set out with, what with all the bones they leave. I use these as 'before farming' rations and build up a good supply of bone bolts. Shells are also valuable to have around.<br />
* 1 of each other 2 cost meat, for extra empty barrels. Barrels cost 10, so getting any food below that can save you money.<br />
* 2 [[Dogs]] - preferably war dogs or hunting dogs. Assign these to your Ranger. Bring a pair so you can make more dogs.<br />
* 1 [[Horse]] - they're relatively inexpensive and will help you begin breeding horses faster, as you are nearly always getting a horse with your wagon. Livestock are a valuable commodity for meat and bones, and you want as many of these as possible 'emergency rations' on hand.<br />
* 4 [[Leather]] - you need leather bags to process [[quarry bush]]es and to gather sand for glass. Four will be enough, and you can get it for only 20.<br />
<br />
If you do it exactly as written, you will end up with a few points left over. Grab some extra food or upgrade one of your copper bars to an actual copper pick, if you want a faster start. These foodstuffs will last a very long time if managed properly, so get your farms going and start preparing for next year now.<br />
<br />
=== Metalbashing/Glassworking ===<br />
Heavy metalbashing and glassworking requires a site with 1) abundant fuel and 2) raw materials. Magma is ideal but large coal seams or a forest will also suffice. A site with either limestone or chalk means nearly unlimited steel. Any site with "sand" (not "loamy sand" or the like) will permit glassworking. Failing these, any place with lots of rock, trees, and preferably sand will work fine. Your biggest choice when setting up is whether to optimize for a fast start or long-term success.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & Skills ====<br />
Unless you're trying a low-skills challenge, each dwarf should get the maximum possible number (currently 10) of skill boosts; remove a battle axe to free up needed points. Individual preferences can be mighty handy; if you have a dwarf who likes steel, clear glass, crossbows, siege engine parts, or something else equally interesting, he's an ideal candidate for matching skills.<br />
<br />
* A Carpenter/Leader: Points into Carpenter, Wood Cutter, and a bunch of nobles' skills, including at least novice Negotiator and Appraiser. This dwarf should have good inter-personal thoughts/preferences.<br />
* A Mason/Mechanic: Points into Mason, Building Designer, and Mechanic. Adding more points to Mason gets construction materials and furniture faster. More points to Mechanic allows faster trap-setting. Adding Appraiser and/or Negotiator skills gives you a back-up leader or broker. A boost to Wrestling gets you better on-call defense.<br />
* A Farmer/Herbalist (assumes the site has at least some plants): This dwarf will gather the plant material you need to brew drinks. Points into Grower and Herbalist. Leftover skill raises should be invested in a valuable, hard to raise trade skill such as [[Blacksmith]], [[Metal_crafter|Metal Crafter]], or perhaps [[Glassmaker]] or [[Clothier]].<br />
* A Farmer/Brewer/Cook: This dwarf is responsible for keeping your community fed and liquored up. Points into Grower, Brewer, and (optionally) Cook. Leftover skill raises should be invested as for the Farmer/Herbalist.<br />
* A Craftsdwarf: Points into whatever hard-to-raise skills you most want. [[Armorsmith]], [[Weaponsmith]], [[Bowyer]], [[Glassmaker]], and even [[Siege_engineer|Siege Engineer]], [[Clothier]], or [[Gem_setter|Gem Setter]] can all be good choices depending on your setup. If you plan to bash metal, remember to spend a few points on Furnace Operator and (if needed) Wood Burning.<br />
* 2 Miners/Soldiers: Points into both mining and military skills. The miners first get legendary and then become extremely powerful fighters. Remember that it's much easier to increase Mining skill than most of the military skills (especially Armor User), but also that you'll want capable miners immediately.<br />
<br />
With this setup, you have several ways to make the trade goods you'll need to buy what you lack. Metal goblets, stone mugs, handwear, footwear, mechanisms, bone or wood crossbows, prepared meals, or bone and shell crafts are all solid choices.<br />
<br />
Food and drink for the first few seasons are assured by first cooking all the meat to free up barrels, then brewing your plump helmets (and any gathered plants) to make booze.<br />
<br />
==== Items (all starts) ====<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s<br />
* 6 or 11 of each of [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]]. With abundant brewable plants and lots of wood you don't actually need any starting booze, but it's nice to have a backup.<br />
* at least 11 [[plump helmet]]s. Bring a lot more if you anticipate problems with gathering brewable plants.<br />
* at least 6 [[turtle]]s. Not only are they good eating, they ensure you have the [[shell]]s and [[bone]]s needed to satisfy [[strange mood]]s.<br />
* 1 of every kind of meat that costs 2 or 4, as each type of meat will be packed in its own free barrel and cooking the meat will release that barrel for use. If you don't like this feature, bring more turtles or plump helmets instead.<br />
* Unless the map is glacial, or you intend only outdoor agriculture, bring plenty of seeds as well. A minimum of 15 plump helmet spawn are essential for a quick start to underground agriculture; rock nuts, sweet pod seeds, pig tail seeds, and cave wheat seeds will diversify your meals and drinks and let you set up for clothes-making. Seeds are packed in bags.<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
===== Items (fast start) =====<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]] - you'll save points by making it yourself.<br />
* only a few logs (just enough to get started with), unless the map has no trees<br />
<br />
See [[Make Your Own Weapons]] for more details on what to bring and how to make the battle axes you need to chop wood.<br />
<br />
===== Items (moderate start) =====<br />
Warning: Going without an anvil will slow you down until you get one in trade (which normally takes about 6 or 7 seasons) and might even cost you a failed [[strange mood]].<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] (at present, steel is the only option)<br />
* few or no logs, unless the map has no trees<br />
* with the points you save by not bringing an anvil, buy logs, bars of base metals you expect your site to lack, and (if needed) coal (for fuel and coke) and/or dolomite (for flux).<br />
<br />
===== Items (slow start) =====<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]]s<br />
* lots of logs - at least 25 on a heavily forested map. You can survive without them, but it's a lot cheaper to buy logs to make barrels than to bring more drink.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Free Equipment ===<br />
<br />
Dwarves who start with the ambusher skill get some leather armor, a crossbow and some bolts for free. <br />
<br />
<br />
=== Challenge Builds ===<br />
If you want a challenge try some [[Challenge_Builds]].<br />
<br />
{{Starting FAQ}}</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Starting_builds&diff=951840d:Starting builds2008-02-19T22:06:12Z<p>Samyotix: /* Skills */</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Starting builds''' are different strategies that you can choose when starting a new game in [[fortress mode]]. The skills and items which you assign to your dwarves will have a large impact on life in your new fortress' development, especially in its first year.<br />
<br />
This page gives advice on some of the many gameplay elements which influence the flow of your game based on your goals. These include: choosing a ''fortress site'', the ''starting build'' itself - defined by who and what to take with you - as well as ''challenge builds'' aimed at providing new or unusual challenges to advanced players.<br />
<br />
* Your First Fortress?<br />
Note: If you are a new player looking for solid basis to survive the first couple of months or years, check out [[Your_first_fortress|this guide]]. It includes a basic starting build similar to the one discussed below.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Components of a Starting Build ==<br />
<br />
=== Skills ===<br />
<br />
Each dwarf can learn any of a large number of [[skills]]. <br />
<br />
* Dwarves with little experience in a skill will work slowly and ineffectively.<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced [[farming|farmers]] and [[herbalist|herbalists], for example, will crush many plants and only sometimes harvest one or two items. This results in a small overall harvest which takes many [[container#container|containers]] to store in, less effective food preparation in the kitchen, and more space needed for [[stockpiles]].<br />
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* Inexperienced [[Miner|miners]] work very slowly. Mining can be levelled up quite quickly by mining [[soil#soil|soil]], but taking two dwarves with at least some points in mining is recommended in many cases.<br />
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* Dwarves improve their skills on a learning-by-doing-basis. Dwarves who have specific labors enabled will, after a while, progress to Dabbling users of their skill, and continue to learn from performing that labor.<br />
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* Inexperienced dwarves who create items in nearly all [[workshops#workshops|workshops]] will create low [[quality#quality|quality]] goods, and take a long time doing so. Skilled dwarves work quickly and produce high-quality items.<br />
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* [[Quality]] is a central concept in the game - it affects [[food]] and [[alcohol]], almost anything you will have your dwarves create in the game: [[trading]] goods, [[barrel|barrels]], [[clothing]], [[armor]], [[furniture]], [[weapons]], and so on. Quality also very much affects the worth of an item while [[trading]].<br />
<br />
Overall, 'Levelling up' the dwarves' skills quickly is a good game goal to set. Doing so [[losing|may]] result your dwarves efficiently creating a magnificent fortress filled to the brim with valuable items and furniture.<br />
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Using and seeing high-quality items gives dwarves happy [[thoughts]]. This tends to increase a fortress' [[tantrum|longevity]].<br />
<br />
=== Which do I need, really? ===<br />
<br />
Most builds recommend:<br />
<br />
2 miners<br />
2 farmers<br />
mason<br />
mechanic<br />
carpenter<br />
woodcutter<br />
brewer<br />
cook<br />
herbalist<br />
plus some extra skills - to create trade goods, or build up a dwarven glass or steel industry.<br />
<br />
==== Combining Skills ====<br />
Some [[skills]] are highly time-consuming, and working at different jobs levels up specific [[attribute]]s. One could level up a miner until hes becomes mighty and ultra-tough - and then turn him into a soldier. If you plan on doing so, it may not be a good idea to give this guy another critical job such as Trader and Record Keeper, but maybe military skills depending on how soon you intend to have [[soldier]]s.<br />
<br />
Since tasks will take place in specific areas, it makes sense to combine tasks into dwarves who will take care of a specific industry - so Combine (indoor) farming with cooking (not mining), for example.<br />
<br />
Most builds recommend combinations such as:<br />
<br />
* Woodcutter/Carpenter. Add Axedwarf for added security.<br />
* Mason. Apparently, in most many fortresses, the Mason is a very busy man indeed.<br />
* Farmer/Cook, Farmer/Brewer. Basic two-person food team.<br />
* Farmer/Herbalist, Farmer/Brewer/Cook. One bold dwarf to farm and venture outside looking for wild plants, the other to keep busy in the still, kitchen, and indoor farms.<br />
* Noble/Boss: Novice [[Judge of intent]]/Novice [[Appraiser]]/Novice [[Organizer]]/Novice [[Record keeper]]. Combine this with a single time-intensive task such as Masonry or Mining, and optionally turn off all hauling tasks right at the start of the game. This results in an all-around Boss and Trader (who can usually be coerced into going to the trade depot and hold meetings just by turning the main profession off).<br />
* Craftsdwarf, depending on your strategy - e.g. [[glass]] maker, weapon smith or armor smith, sometiomes combined with related tasks from that industry (furnace operating, wood burning). Typically an item hauler in the initial months of your fortress, this dwarf may become one of your most valuable dwarves later.<br />
* Miner / Hammerdwarf. Mining makes dwarves strong and tough, and the Hammerdwarf skill is used for the Pick.<br />
<br />
=== Items ===<br />
<br />
Some basics are recommended for all builds. You definitely need to bring one [[pick]] for each [[miner]], some [[food]], and some [[alcohol]]. Everything else depends on your strategy and on how tough or leisurely a challenge you want the game to be.<br />
<br />
Note: Many builds recommend that you bring many different cheap foods, with quantities ending in a "1" or a "6". This is to maximize the number of [[barrels]] you start with, since most foodstuffs fit five to a barrel. More barrels will let you build a larger stockpile for your first winter and conserves the [[wood]] you harvest in the early game for beds and other necessities.<br />
<br />
== Fortress Sites ==<br />
Each fortress site offers particular challenges and opportunities. The starting builds below can and should be adjusted depending on the specific vision you have of your fortress ... and what it will take to stay [[losing|alive]] where you're going!<br />
<br />
=== Mountains ===<br />
Most dwarven fortresses are founded along the edges of mountain ranges on sites that combine abundant ore and access to the outside world. Magma and rare metals lure settlers here, but [[goblins]], [[chasm]] dwellers, and even [[giant eagle]]s are potent threats.<br />
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Trees and plants do not grow at high elevations, so you'll want to include non-mountainous areas to obtain lumber and food - or, failing this, to pack a lot of extra food and logs.<br />
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Other consideration is elevation range. The game allows access up to 15 levels above the highest peak and 15 levels below the deepest valley, so steeper slopes means much more diggable area. The downside is lag; more levels also means more CPU burden (this can cripple a fortress - be careful).<br />
<br />
Be sure to include a stream on the map; running water is (almost) essential for any fortress. In Cold and Freezing climates streams and lakes will often be frozen year-round and your dwarves may quickly die of exposure. Choose Temperate or tropical zones for an easier game.<br />
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=== Wooded Plains (with trees and plants) ===<br />
Flatlands with at least some trees and gatherable plants can also make for highly successful fortresses. <br />
<br />
Advantages over mountain zones include abundant trees and plants, guaranteed agriculture both on the surface and underground, fewer hostile fortresses and caves, and (unless frozen) more abundant water. There are even (rare) magma vents.<br />
<br />
The greatest disadvantage is a lack of rock to mine. Fewer elevations means fewer exploitable z-levels. The first few levels below the surface are almost always soil, peat, loam, clay, or sand, none of which offers much (or any) gems, ore, or building material. An [[aquifer]], if present, may bar all access to stone until you freeze, pump out, or find a way through the water.<br />
<br />
=== Desert, Glaciers, and Barren (few or no trees and plants) ===<br />
Treeless (or near-treeless) biomes are challenging sites for a fortress: you get most of the disadvantages of a flatland site without having access to nearly as many trees and plants. However, near-lifeless zones such as glaciers are wonderful for those with slower machines, as there's little to burden the CPU but your dwarves and livestock. Deserts and barren areas often have sand; with a sufficient source of energy (preferably magma), you can build almost anything out of unlimited glass.<br />
<br />
=== Ocean Side ===<br />
An interesting combination of a few of the above locations, beaches are often a mix of ease intermingled with bouts of extreme difficulty. Minerals and trees are often abundant, as well as farmland and sand, but there is often no drinking water unless the biome has a river.<br />
There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Basic Build ==<br />
<br />
The first order of business is simply to survive. Here is a simple, somewhat paranoid, way to do this.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
On most (but not all) sites, you'll want to get food, brew drink, mine, make wood and stone items, and trade. Whatever additional skills you purchase, be sure to cover these. If you need more points to buy skills (and it's a good idea to buy lots of skills), remove a battle axe.<br />
<br />
* 2 miners<br />
* 1 mason/mechanic<br />
* 1 carpenter/woodcutter<br />
* 1 grower/brewer/cook. He's responsible for making prepared meals and drinks.<br />
* either a herbalist/grower, or a fisherdwarf, or a hunter. The first gets you lots of brewable plants on maps with plants, the second gets you food and bones on maps with water (in maps with dangerous fish such as [[carp]] fishing is suicidal so be careful), and the third gets you meat and bones on maps with animals. Herbalism is usually the safest of the three.<br />
* 1 spare dwarf. You might make him the leader and broker; if so, give him at least novice [[appraiser]] skill so you know what stuff is worth. You might make him responsible for making trade goods, or turn him into your first soldier, or you might just give him some skills you want to experiment with.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
You want picks, food, and drink. Everything else is optional. The suggestions below assume you spent the maximum possible on skills. We'll pack lots just to be safe.<br />
<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s - 1 per miner<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] - so you can chop wood<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - so you can make weapons, trade crafts, and such<br />
* 20 units of drink: [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]] are all good. [[dwarven wine]] you'll get through brewing.<br />
* 30 [[plump helmets]] - They're good to eat and produce 5 units of booze for each one brewed at a [[still]].<br />
* 5 turtles - they get you bones and shells<br />
* 20 [[plump helmet spawn]] - for planting.<br />
* 2 dogs - to guard against thieves and help kill intruders.<br />
* (optional) other kinds of seeds and rock nuts<br />
* (optional) 1 of many different kinds of meats for extra barrels<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
If the map is treeless, remove the battle axe and spend the freed points on more plump helmets and logs (you're going to run out however many you bring...).<br />
<br />
If you're willing to wait a year or two to do any metalworking and you're sure traders will come, remove the anvil and spend the freed points on such things as skills, food and drink, wood, leather, raw materials, or weapons.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== '''Rapid Expansion''' ===<br />
A plan for quick growth followed up by heavy immigration works well both as an early game strategy and as an assist for a late game foundation. Starting off with the anvil is also much less troublesome if you drop both battleaxes and make your own picks too. Don't worry though, you'll be digging out cavernous villas in no time, and cheaply too, with this build. Food and stone will be in abundance and you'll have excellent worker time utilization. And due to the early metalworking and distributed skills your dwarves have, soon you'll have powerful steel-armored warrior workers that'll form the bedrock of a city guard.<br />
<br />
Always build a wood burning furnace, Smelter and Metalsmith shop first, and take apart that wagon for extra logs. Either burn those logs into charcoal, or smelt coal into fuel, and then make your tools.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
By dropping both picks and axes you'll be able to afford a lot of useful skills, and you'll be able to get a metalsmithing shop running within the first seconds of your game, so no precious time is lost. Your Dwarves are divided largely into two groups, your laborers (Butcher, Baker and candle--er, Brewer) and your craftsdwarves. Essentially a Blue collar/White collar divide to set up a nice class war later. Also, by having such wide assortments of skills, your dwarves will get lots of attribute bonuses and become extremely capable fighters by the time you need to worry about that.<br />
<br />
Laborers are given mining and growing skills with some extra to cover food production. The Ranger is the oddball, but will spend his early days gathering plants and hauling items, so fits here. Your first order of business with them is to dig that top later out quickly and get some farms started and fully stocked. Then, as they grow, you can go back to digging out the rest of the base.<br />
<br />
* The Baker: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Cooking.<br />
* The Brewer: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Brewing.<br />
* The Butcher: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +1 Butchering, +1 Tanning, +1 Leatherworking. Make some bags for sand and the Quarry Bushes and a butcher's shop before the Ranger starts his hunts.<br />
<br />
* The Ranger: +3 Woodcutter, +3 Carpenter, +1 Herbalist, +1 Ambusher, +2 Axedwarf. Be sure to assign a war dog or two to this guy, since he's the only one who needs to go outside. Once he gets an axe, he'll also be a competent fighter and hunter and will start with armor due to +1 ambusher.<br />
<br />
Craftsdwarves focus on running shops, building trade goods, and making the outpost as profitable as possible in the first year, to attract additional immigrants that can be thrown into the mines or toil in the mushroom fields. They should have very broad skill bases, but the actual choice of leader is up to you.<br />
<br />
* The Smithy: +1 Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Metalsmith, Furnace Operator, Wood Burner, Stone Crafting, Bone Carving. This guy will cover all of your rarely needed creation skills, and make your picks and axes. After this he usually ends up making scads of stone crafts for sale. Glassworking, gem cutting, and potash making are good as well, and even with novice in all areas you'll build fast enough for these rare items.<br />
* The Foreman: +3 Building Design, +3 Mechanic, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper. Building design and mechanical work is extremely quick work, so instead give him nobleman skills to spend the rest of his work hours on. These are extremely useful in the long-term.<br />
* The Freemason: +5 Masonry. It seems a bit silly to give him just one primary skill, but Masons are usually working 24 hours a day on all variety of stone doors, chairs and tables.<br />
<br />
There's a variation if you want a more 'compact' design of those last two:<br />
<br />
* The Construction Worker: +5 Masonry, +3 Mechanic, +2 Building Design.<br />
* The Lazy Boss: +3 Fishing, +3 Fish Cleaning, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper.<br />
<br />
This is not as useful or safe, as Fishing is a time-intensive skill, so it takes him away from his record keeping job for extended periods and a Carp might kill him. It also forces your Mason to get behind on Queues every time someone needs a trap build or a workshop set up. Halting book-keeping doesn't slow down any production, so the original stat-spread can work out better.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
The only thing you need is your anvil, a few stones and bars of metal, everything else is optional. A point of contention is the Iron Axe you'll be making, as some may prefer it to be steel. Steel Bars cost 150, which is three times the cost of iron, and only provide a small damage bonus and no chopping speed bonus. If you start in an area with [[Limestone]] or [[Chalk]] you'll soon be able to smelt Steel with your functioning metalsmith shop anyway. If you're on a map without trees, well, I suppose you don't need the axe at all. But in that case you'd be better off taking the picks, dropping the anvil, and buying a few hundred logs.<br />
<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - this is what makes it all possible, and helps you get started faster.<br />
* 3 [[Copper|Copper bars]] - these cost 10 each, and will be your picks. Three for the price of one, literally.<br />
* 1 [[Iron|Iron bar]] - this costs 50, and will be your axe. The 40 extra is worth it for the damage increase you get over copper or bronze.<br />
* 2 [[Bituminous coal]] or [[Log]]s - you can smelt two coal into 4 fuel for the cost of 2 logs. Inexpensive at 3 each, one can afford to bring more.<br />
* 4 cheap stone - any sort works, such as inexpensive [[granite]]. You'll use these to make your first three buildings.<br />
<br />
That's what you need to get started, but this is a guide for the items on your list. This build does not require or recommend bringing plump helmets due to their cost. Instead, encourage your dwarves to eat the turtles and meat out of the barrels and cook wine biscuits. Your farms will be running amazingly quickly anyway, and for half the cost of a single helmet you can make feed several dwarves on baked beer. You'll get enough seeds from brewing the [[plump helmets]] soon enough.<br />
<br />
* 26 of [[Dwarven wine|Wine]], [[Dwarven rum|Rum]], [[Dwarven beer|Beer]] and [[Dwarven ale|Ale]]<br />
* 36 of [[rock nut]]s, [[Plump helmet spawn]] and [[Pig tail]] [[seeds]]<br />
* 11 [[turtle]]s - these hilarious little dudes are way better than the meat you usually set out with, what with all the bones they leave. I use these as 'before farming' rations and build up a good supply of bone bolts. Shells are also valuable to have around.<br />
* 1 of each other 2 cost meat, for extra empty barrels. Barrels cost 10, so getting any food below that can save you money.<br />
* 2 [[Dogs]] - preferably war dogs or hunting dogs. Assign these to your Ranger. Bring a pair so you can make more dogs.<br />
* 1 [[Horse]] - they're relatively inexpensive and will help you begin breeding horses faster, as you are nearly always getting a horse with your wagon. Livestock are a valuable commodity for meat and bones, and you want as many of these as possible 'emergency rations' on hand.<br />
* 4 [[Leather]] - you need leather bags to process [[quarry bush]]es and to gather sand for glass. Four will be enough, and you can get it for only 20.<br />
<br />
If you do it exactly as written, you will end up with a few points left over. Grab some extra food or upgrade one of your copper bars to an actual copper pick, if you want a faster start. These foodstuffs will last a very long time if managed properly, so get your farms going and start preparing for next year now.<br />
<br />
=== Metalbashing/Glassworking ===<br />
Heavy metalbashing and glassworking requires a site with 1) abundant fuel and 2) raw materials. Magma is ideal but large coal seams or a forest will also suffice. A site with either limestone or chalk means nearly unlimited steel. Any site with "sand" (not "loamy sand" or the like) will permit glassworking. Failing these, any place with lots of rock, trees, and preferably sand will work fine. Your biggest choice when setting up is whether to optimize for a fast start or long-term success.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & Skills ====<br />
Unless you're trying a low-skills challenge, each dwarf should get the maximum possible number (currently 10) of skill boosts; remove a battle axe to free up needed points. Individual preferences can be mighty handy; if you have a dwarf who likes steel, clear glass, crossbows, siege engine parts, or something else equally interesting, he's an ideal candidate for matching skills.<br />
<br />
* A Carpenter/Leader: Points into Carpenter, Wood Cutter, and a bunch of nobles' skills, including at least novice Negotiator and Appraiser. This dwarf should have good inter-personal thoughts/preferences.<br />
* A Mason/Mechanic: Points into Mason, Building Designer, and Mechanic. Adding more points to Mason gets construction materials and furniture faster. More points to Mechanic allows faster trap-setting. Adding Appraiser and/or Negotiator skills gives you a back-up leader or broker. A boost to Wrestling gets you better on-call defense.<br />
* A Farmer/Herbalist (assumes the site has at least some plants): This dwarf will gather the plant material you need to brew drinks. Points into Grower and Herbalist. Leftover skill raises should be invested in a valuable, hard to raise trade skill such as [[Blacksmith]], [[Metal_crafter|Metal Crafter]], or perhaps [[Glassmaker]] or [[Clothier]].<br />
* A Farmer/Brewer/Cook: This dwarf is responsible for keeping your community fed and liquored up. Points into Grower, Brewer, and (optionally) Cook. Leftover skill raises should be invested as for the Farmer/Herbalist.<br />
* A Craftsdwarf: Points into whatever hard-to-raise skills you most want. [[Armorsmith]], [[Weaponsmith]], [[Bowyer]], [[Glassmaker]], and even [[Siege_engineer|Siege Engineer]], [[Clothier]], or [[Gem_setter|Gem Setter]] can all be good choices depending on your setup. If you plan to bash metal, remember to spend a few points on Furnace Operator and (if needed) Wood Burning.<br />
* 2 Miners/Soldiers: Points into both mining and military skills. The miners first get legendary and then become extremely powerful fighters. Remember that it's much easier to increase Mining skill than most of the military skills (especially Armor User), but also that you'll want capable miners immediately.<br />
<br />
With this setup, you have several ways to make the trade goods you'll need to buy what you lack. Metal goblets, stone mugs, handwear, footwear, mechanisms, bone or wood crossbows, prepared meals, or bone and shell crafts are all solid choices.<br />
<br />
Food and drink for the first few seasons are assured by first cooking all the meat to free up barrels, then brewing your plump helmets (and any gathered plants) to make booze.<br />
<br />
==== Items (all starts) ====<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s<br />
* 6 or 11 of each of [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]]. With abundant brewable plants and lots of wood you don't actually need any starting booze, but it's nice to have a backup.<br />
* at least 11 [[plump helmet]]s. Bring a lot more if you anticipate problems with gathering brewable plants.<br />
* at least 6 [[turtle]]s. Not only are they good eating, they ensure you have the [[shell]]s and [[bone]]s needed to satisfy [[strange mood]]s.<br />
* 1 of every kind of meat that costs 2 or 4, as each type of meat will be packed in its own free barrel and cooking the meat will release that barrel for use. If you don't like this feature, bring more turtles or plump helmets instead.<br />
* Unless the map is glacial, or you intend only outdoor agriculture, bring plenty of seeds as well. A minimum of 15 plump helmet spawn are essential for a quick start to underground agriculture; rock nuts, sweet pod seeds, pig tail seeds, and cave wheat seeds will diversify your meals and drinks and let you set up for clothes-making. Seeds are packed in bags.<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
===== Items (fast start) =====<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]] - you'll save points by making it yourself.<br />
* only a few logs (just enough to get started with), unless the map has no trees<br />
<br />
See [[Make Your Own Weapons]] for more details on what to bring and how to make the battle axes you need to chop wood.<br />
<br />
===== Items (moderate start) =====<br />
Warning: Going without an anvil will slow you down until you get one in trade (which normally takes about 6 or 7 seasons) and might even cost you a failed [[strange mood]].<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] (at present, steel is the only option)<br />
* few or no logs, unless the map has no trees<br />
* with the points you save by not bringing an anvil, buy logs, bars of base metals you expect your site to lack, and (if needed) coal (for fuel and coke) and/or dolomite (for flux).<br />
<br />
===== Items (slow start) =====<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]]s<br />
* lots of logs - at least 25 on a heavily forested map. You can survive without them, but it's a lot cheaper to buy logs to make barrels than to bring more drink.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Free Equipment ===<br />
<br />
Dwarves who start with the ambusher skill get some leather armor, a crossbow and some bolts for free. <br />
<br />
<br />
=== Challenge Builds ===<br />
If you want a challenge try some [[Challenge_Builds]].<br />
<br />
{{Starting FAQ}}</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Starting_builds&diff=951740d:Starting builds2008-02-19T21:54:20Z<p>Samyotix: /* Items */</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Starting builds''' are different strategies that you can choose when starting a new game in [[fortress mode]]. The skills and items which you assign to your dwarves will have a large impact on life in your new fortress' development, especially in its first year.<br />
<br />
This page gives advice on some of the many gameplay elements which influence the flow of your game based on your goals. These include: choosing a ''fortress site'', the ''starting build'' itself - defined by who and what to take with you - as well as ''challenge builds'' aimed at providing new or unusual challenges to advanced players.<br />
<br />
* Your First Fortress?<br />
Note: If you are a new player looking for solid basis to survive the first couple of months or years, check out [[Your_first_fortress|this guide]]. It includes a basic starting build similar to the one discussed below.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Components of a Starting Build ==<br />
<br />
=== Skills ===<br />
<br />
Each dwarf can learn any of a large number of [[skills]]. <br />
<br />
* Dwarves with little experience in a skill will work slowly and ineffectively.<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced [[farming|farmers]] and [[herbalist|herbalists], for example, will crush many plants and only sometimes harvest one or two items. This results in a small overall harvest which takes many [[container#container|containers]] to store in, less effective food preparation in the kitchen, and more space needed for [[stockpiles]].<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced [[Miner|miners]] work very slowly. Mining can be levelled up quite quickly by mining [[soil#soil|soil]], but taking two dwarves with at least some points in mining is recommended in many cases.<br />
<br />
* Dwarves improve their skills on a learning-by-doing-basis. Dwarves who have specific labors enabled will, after a while, progress to Dabbling users of their skill, and continue to learn from performing that labor.<br />
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* Inexperienced dwarves who create items in nearly all [[workshops#workshops|workshops]] will create low [[quality#quality|quality]] goods, and take a long time doing so. Skilled dwarves work quickly and produce high-quality items.<br />
<br />
* [[Quality]] is a central concept in the game - it affects [[food]] and [[alcohol]], almost anything you will have your dwarves create in the game: [[trading]] goods, [[barrel|barrels]], [[clothing]], [[armor]], [[furniture]], [[weapons]], and so on. Quality also very much affects the worth of an item while [[trading]].<br />
<br />
Overall, 'Levelling up' the dwarves' skills quickly is a good game goal to set. Doing so [[losing|may]] result your dwarves efficiently creating a magnificent fortress filled to the brim with valuable items and furniture.<br />
<br />
Using and seeing high-quality items gives dwarves happy [[thoughts]]. This tends to increase a fortress' [[tantrum|longevity]].<br />
<br />
==== Combining Skills ====<br />
Some [[skills]] are highly time-consuming, and working at different jobs levels up specific [[attribute]]s. One could level up a miner until hes becomes mighty and ultra-tough - and then turn him into a soldier. If you plan on doing so, it may not be a good idea to give this guy another critical job such as Trader and Record Keeper, but maybe military skills depending on how soon you intend to have [[soldier]]s.<br />
<br />
Since tasks will take place in specific areas, it makes sense to combine tasks into dwarves who will take care of a specific industry - so Combine (indoor) farming with cooking (not mining), for example.<br />
<br />
Most builds recommend combinations such as:<br />
<br />
* Woodcutter/Carpenter. Spends most of the summer out in the woods, and winter indoors turning them into beds.<br />
* Mason. Apparently, in most many fortresses, the Mason is a very busy man indeed.<br />
* Farmer/Cook, Farmer/Brewer. Basic two-person food team.<br />
* Farmer/Herbalist, Farmer/Brewer/Cook. One bold dwarf to farm and venture outside looking for wild plants, the other to keep busy in the still, kitchen, and indoor farms.<br />
* Noble/Boss: Novice [[Judge of intent]]/Novice [[Appraiser]]/Novice [[Organizer]]/Novice [[Record keeper]]. Combine this with a single time-intensive task such as Masonry or Mining, and optionally turn off all hauling tasks right at the start of the game. This results in an all-around Boss and Trader (who can usually be coerced into going to the trade depot and hold meetings just by turning the main profession off).<br />
* Craftsdwarf, depending on your strategy - e.g. [[glass]] maker, weapon smith or armor smith, sometiomes combined with related tasks from that industry (furnace operating, wood burning). Typically an item hauler in the initial months of your fortress, this dwarf may become one of your most valuable dwarves later.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Items ===<br />
<br />
Some basics are recommended for all builds. You definitely need to bring one [[pick]] for each [[miner]], some [[food]], and some [[alcohol]]. Everything else depends on your strategy and on how tough or leisurely a challenge you want the game to be.<br />
<br />
Note: Many builds recommend that you bring many different cheap foods, with quantities ending in a "1" or a "6". This is to maximize the number of [[barrels]] you start with, since most foodstuffs fit five to a barrel. More barrels will let you build a larger stockpile for your first winter and conserves the [[wood]] you harvest in the early game for beds and other necessities.<br />
<br />
== Fortress Sites ==<br />
Each fortress site offers particular challenges and opportunities. The starting builds below can and should be adjusted depending on the specific vision you have of your fortress ... and what it will take to stay [[losing|alive]] where you're going!<br />
<br />
=== Mountains ===<br />
Most dwarven fortresses are founded along the edges of mountain ranges on sites that combine abundant ore and access to the outside world. Magma and rare metals lure settlers here, but [[goblins]], [[chasm]] dwellers, and even [[giant eagle]]s are potent threats.<br />
<br />
Trees and plants do not grow at high elevations, so you'll want to include non-mountainous areas to obtain lumber and food - or, failing this, to pack a lot of extra food and logs.<br />
<br />
Other consideration is elevation range. The game allows access up to 15 levels above the highest peak and 15 levels below the deepest valley, so steeper slopes means much more diggable area. The downside is lag; more levels also means more CPU burden (this can cripple a fortress - be careful).<br />
<br />
Be sure to include a stream on the map; running water is (almost) essential for any fortress. In Cold and Freezing climates streams and lakes will often be frozen year-round and your dwarves may quickly die of exposure. Choose Temperate or tropical zones for an easier game.<br />
<br />
=== Wooded Plains (with trees and plants) ===<br />
Flatlands with at least some trees and gatherable plants can also make for highly successful fortresses. <br />
<br />
Advantages over mountain zones include abundant trees and plants, guaranteed agriculture both on the surface and underground, fewer hostile fortresses and caves, and (unless frozen) more abundant water. There are even (rare) magma vents.<br />
<br />
The greatest disadvantage is a lack of rock to mine. Fewer elevations means fewer exploitable z-levels. The first few levels below the surface are almost always soil, peat, loam, clay, or sand, none of which offers much (or any) gems, ore, or building material. An [[aquifer]], if present, may bar all access to stone until you freeze, pump out, or find a way through the water.<br />
<br />
=== Desert, Glaciers, and Barren (few or no trees and plants) ===<br />
Treeless (or near-treeless) biomes are challenging sites for a fortress: you get most of the disadvantages of a flatland site without having access to nearly as many trees and plants. However, near-lifeless zones such as glaciers are wonderful for those with slower machines, as there's little to burden the CPU but your dwarves and livestock. Deserts and barren areas often have sand; with a sufficient source of energy (preferably magma), you can build almost anything out of unlimited glass.<br />
<br />
=== Ocean Side ===<br />
An interesting combination of a few of the above locations, beaches are often a mix of ease intermingled with bouts of extreme difficulty. Minerals and trees are often abundant, as well as farmland and sand, but there is often no drinking water unless the biome has a river.<br />
There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Basic Build ==<br />
<br />
The first order of business is simply to survive. Here is a simple, somewhat paranoid, way to do this.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
On most (but not all) sites, you'll want to get food, brew drink, mine, make wood and stone items, and trade. Whatever additional skills you purchase, be sure to cover these. If you need more points to buy skills (and it's a good idea to buy lots of skills), remove a battle axe.<br />
<br />
* 2 miners<br />
* 1 mason/mechanic<br />
* 1 carpenter/woodcutter<br />
* 1 grower/brewer/cook. He's responsible for making prepared meals and drinks.<br />
* either a herbalist/grower, or a fisherdwarf, or a hunter. The first gets you lots of brewable plants on maps with plants, the second gets you food and bones on maps with water (in maps with dangerous fish such as [[carp]] fishing is suicidal so be careful), and the third gets you meat and bones on maps with animals. Herbalism is usually the safest of the three.<br />
* 1 spare dwarf. You might make him the leader and broker; if so, give him at least novice [[appraiser]] skill so you know what stuff is worth. You might make him responsible for making trade goods, or turn him into your first soldier, or you might just give him some skills you want to experiment with.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
You want picks, food, and drink. Everything else is optional. The suggestions below assume you spent the maximum possible on skills. We'll pack lots just to be safe.<br />
<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s - 1 per miner<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] - so you can chop wood<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - so you can make weapons, trade crafts, and such<br />
* 20 units of drink: [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]] are all good. [[dwarven wine]] you'll get through brewing.<br />
* 30 [[plump helmets]] - They're good to eat and produce 5 units of booze for each one brewed at a [[still]].<br />
* 5 turtles - they get you bones and shells<br />
* 20 [[plump helmet spawn]] - for planting.<br />
* 2 dogs - to guard against thieves and help kill intruders.<br />
* (optional) other kinds of seeds and rock nuts<br />
* (optional) 1 of many different kinds of meats for extra barrels<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
If the map is treeless, remove the battle axe and spend the freed points on more plump helmets and logs (you're going to run out however many you bring...).<br />
<br />
If you're willing to wait a year or two to do any metalworking and you're sure traders will come, remove the anvil and spend the freed points on such things as skills, food and drink, wood, leather, raw materials, or weapons.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== '''Rapid Expansion''' ===<br />
A plan for quick growth followed up by heavy immigration works well both as an early game strategy and as an assist for a late game foundation. Starting off with the anvil is also much less troublesome if you drop both battleaxes and make your own picks too. Don't worry though, you'll be digging out cavernous villas in no time, and cheaply too, with this build. Food and stone will be in abundance and you'll have excellent worker time utilization. And due to the early metalworking and distributed skills your dwarves have, soon you'll have powerful steel-armored warrior workers that'll form the bedrock of a city guard.<br />
<br />
Always build a wood burning furnace, Smelter and Metalsmith shop first, and take apart that wagon for extra logs. Either burn those logs into charcoal, or smelt coal into fuel, and then make your tools.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
By dropping both picks and axes you'll be able to afford a lot of useful skills, and you'll be able to get a metalsmithing shop running within the first seconds of your game, so no precious time is lost. Your Dwarves are divided largely into two groups, your laborers (Butcher, Baker and candle--er, Brewer) and your craftsdwarves. Essentially a Blue collar/White collar divide to set up a nice class war later. Also, by having such wide assortments of skills, your dwarves will get lots of attribute bonuses and become extremely capable fighters by the time you need to worry about that.<br />
<br />
Laborers are given mining and growing skills with some extra to cover food production. The Ranger is the oddball, but will spend his early days gathering plants and hauling items, so fits here. Your first order of business with them is to dig that top later out quickly and get some farms started and fully stocked. Then, as they grow, you can go back to digging out the rest of the base.<br />
<br />
* The Baker: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Cooking.<br />
* The Brewer: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Brewing.<br />
* The Butcher: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +1 Butchering, +1 Tanning, +1 Leatherworking. Make some bags for sand and the Quarry Bushes and a butcher's shop before the Ranger starts his hunts.<br />
<br />
* The Ranger: +3 Woodcutter, +3 Carpenter, +1 Herbalist, +1 Ambusher, +2 Axedwarf. Be sure to assign a war dog or two to this guy, since he's the only one who needs to go outside. Once he gets an axe, he'll also be a competent fighter and hunter and will start with armor due to +1 ambusher.<br />
<br />
Craftsdwarves focus on running shops, building trade goods, and making the outpost as profitable as possible in the first year, to attract additional immigrants that can be thrown into the mines or toil in the mushroom fields. They should have very broad skill bases, but the actual choice of leader is up to you.<br />
<br />
* The Smithy: +1 Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Metalsmith, Furnace Operator, Wood Burner, Stone Crafting, Bone Carving. This guy will cover all of your rarely needed creation skills, and make your picks and axes. After this he usually ends up making scads of stone crafts for sale. Glassworking, gem cutting, and potash making are good as well, and even with novice in all areas you'll build fast enough for these rare items.<br />
* The Foreman: +3 Building Design, +3 Mechanic, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper. Building design and mechanical work is extremely quick work, so instead give him nobleman skills to spend the rest of his work hours on. These are extremely useful in the long-term.<br />
* The Freemason: +5 Masonry. It seems a bit silly to give him just one primary skill, but Masons are usually working 24 hours a day on all variety of stone doors, chairs and tables.<br />
<br />
There's a variation if you want a more 'compact' design of those last two:<br />
<br />
* The Construction Worker: +5 Masonry, +3 Mechanic, +2 Building Design.<br />
* The Lazy Boss: +3 Fishing, +3 Fish Cleaning, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper.<br />
<br />
This is not as useful or safe, as Fishing is a time-intensive skill, so it takes him away from his record keeping job for extended periods and a Carp might kill him. It also forces your Mason to get behind on Queues every time someone needs a trap build or a workshop set up. Halting book-keeping doesn't slow down any production, so the original stat-spread can work out better.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
The only thing you need is your anvil, a few stones and bars of metal, everything else is optional. A point of contention is the Iron Axe you'll be making, as some may prefer it to be steel. Steel Bars cost 150, which is three times the cost of iron, and only provide a small damage bonus and no chopping speed bonus. If you start in an area with [[Limestone]] or [[Chalk]] you'll soon be able to smelt Steel with your functioning metalsmith shop anyway. If you're on a map without trees, well, I suppose you don't need the axe at all. But in that case you'd be better off taking the picks, dropping the anvil, and buying a few hundred logs.<br />
<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - this is what makes it all possible, and helps you get started faster.<br />
* 3 [[Copper|Copper bars]] - these cost 10 each, and will be your picks. Three for the price of one, literally.<br />
* 1 [[Iron|Iron bar]] - this costs 50, and will be your axe. The 40 extra is worth it for the damage increase you get over copper or bronze.<br />
* 2 [[Bituminous coal]] or [[Log]]s - you can smelt two coal into 4 fuel for the cost of 2 logs. Inexpensive at 3 each, one can afford to bring more.<br />
* 4 cheap stone - any sort works, such as inexpensive [[granite]]. You'll use these to make your first three buildings.<br />
<br />
That's what you need to get started, but this is a guide for the items on your list. This build does not require or recommend bringing plump helmets due to their cost. Instead, encourage your dwarves to eat the turtles and meat out of the barrels and cook wine biscuits. Your farms will be running amazingly quickly anyway, and for half the cost of a single helmet you can make feed several dwarves on baked beer. You'll get enough seeds from brewing the [[plump helmets]] soon enough.<br />
<br />
* 26 of [[Dwarven wine|Wine]], [[Dwarven rum|Rum]], [[Dwarven beer|Beer]] and [[Dwarven ale|Ale]]<br />
* 36 of [[rock nut]]s, [[Plump helmet spawn]] and [[Pig tail]] [[seeds]]<br />
* 11 [[turtle]]s - these hilarious little dudes are way better than the meat you usually set out with, what with all the bones they leave. I use these as 'before farming' rations and build up a good supply of bone bolts. Shells are also valuable to have around.<br />
* 1 of each other 2 cost meat, for extra empty barrels. Barrels cost 10, so getting any food below that can save you money.<br />
* 2 [[Dogs]] - preferably war dogs or hunting dogs. Assign these to your Ranger. Bring a pair so you can make more dogs.<br />
* 1 [[Horse]] - they're relatively inexpensive and will help you begin breeding horses faster, as you are nearly always getting a horse with your wagon. Livestock are a valuable commodity for meat and bones, and you want as many of these as possible 'emergency rations' on hand.<br />
* 4 [[Leather]] - you need leather bags to process [[quarry bush]]es and to gather sand for glass. Four will be enough, and you can get it for only 20.<br />
<br />
If you do it exactly as written, you will end up with a few points left over. Grab some extra food or upgrade one of your copper bars to an actual copper pick, if you want a faster start. These foodstuffs will last a very long time if managed properly, so get your farms going and start preparing for next year now.<br />
<br />
=== Metalbashing/Glassworking ===<br />
Heavy metalbashing and glassworking requires a site with 1) abundant fuel and 2) raw materials. Magma is ideal but large coal seams or a forest will also suffice. A site with either limestone or chalk means nearly unlimited steel. Any site with "sand" (not "loamy sand" or the like) will permit glassworking. Failing these, any place with lots of rock, trees, and preferably sand will work fine. Your biggest choice when setting up is whether to optimize for a fast start or long-term success.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & Skills ====<br />
Unless you're trying a low-skills challenge, each dwarf should get the maximum possible number (currently 10) of skill boosts; remove a battle axe to free up needed points. Individual preferences can be mighty handy; if you have a dwarf who likes steel, clear glass, crossbows, siege engine parts, or something else equally interesting, he's an ideal candidate for matching skills.<br />
<br />
* A Carpenter/Leader: Points into Carpenter, Wood Cutter, and a bunch of nobles' skills, including at least novice Negotiator and Appraiser. This dwarf should have good inter-personal thoughts/preferences.<br />
* A Mason/Mechanic: Points into Mason, Building Designer, and Mechanic. Adding more points to Mason gets construction materials and furniture faster. More points to Mechanic allows faster trap-setting. Adding Appraiser and/or Negotiator skills gives you a back-up leader or broker. A boost to Wrestling gets you better on-call defense.<br />
* A Farmer/Herbalist (assumes the site has at least some plants): This dwarf will gather the plant material you need to brew drinks. Points into Grower and Herbalist. Leftover skill raises should be invested in a valuable, hard to raise trade skill such as [[Blacksmith]], [[Metal_crafter|Metal Crafter]], or perhaps [[Glassmaker]] or [[Clothier]].<br />
* A Farmer/Brewer/Cook: This dwarf is responsible for keeping your community fed and liquored up. Points into Grower, Brewer, and (optionally) Cook. Leftover skill raises should be invested as for the Farmer/Herbalist.<br />
* A Craftsdwarf: Points into whatever hard-to-raise skills you most want. [[Armorsmith]], [[Weaponsmith]], [[Bowyer]], [[Glassmaker]], and even [[Siege_engineer|Siege Engineer]], [[Clothier]], or [[Gem_setter|Gem Setter]] can all be good choices depending on your setup. If you plan to bash metal, remember to spend a few points on Furnace Operator and (if needed) Wood Burning.<br />
* 2 Miners/Soldiers: Points into both mining and military skills. The miners first get legendary and then become extremely powerful fighters. Remember that it's much easier to increase Mining skill than most of the military skills (especially Armor User), but also that you'll want capable miners immediately.<br />
<br />
With this setup, you have several ways to make the trade goods you'll need to buy what you lack. Metal goblets, stone mugs, handwear, footwear, mechanisms, bone or wood crossbows, prepared meals, or bone and shell crafts are all solid choices.<br />
<br />
Food and drink for the first few seasons are assured by first cooking all the meat to free up barrels, then brewing your plump helmets (and any gathered plants) to make booze.<br />
<br />
==== Items (all starts) ====<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s<br />
* 6 or 11 of each of [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]]. With abundant brewable plants and lots of wood you don't actually need any starting booze, but it's nice to have a backup.<br />
* at least 11 [[plump helmet]]s. Bring a lot more if you anticipate problems with gathering brewable plants.<br />
* at least 6 [[turtle]]s. Not only are they good eating, they ensure you have the [[shell]]s and [[bone]]s needed to satisfy [[strange mood]]s.<br />
* 1 of every kind of meat that costs 2 or 4, as each type of meat will be packed in its own free barrel and cooking the meat will release that barrel for use. If you don't like this feature, bring more turtles or plump helmets instead.<br />
* Unless the map is glacial, or you intend only outdoor agriculture, bring plenty of seeds as well. A minimum of 15 plump helmet spawn are essential for a quick start to underground agriculture; rock nuts, sweet pod seeds, pig tail seeds, and cave wheat seeds will diversify your meals and drinks and let you set up for clothes-making. Seeds are packed in bags.<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
===== Items (fast start) =====<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]] - you'll save points by making it yourself.<br />
* only a few logs (just enough to get started with), unless the map has no trees<br />
<br />
See [[Make Your Own Weapons]] for more details on what to bring and how to make the battle axes you need to chop wood.<br />
<br />
===== Items (moderate start) =====<br />
Warning: Going without an anvil will slow you down until you get one in trade (which normally takes about 6 or 7 seasons) and might even cost you a failed [[strange mood]].<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] (at present, steel is the only option)<br />
* few or no logs, unless the map has no trees<br />
* with the points you save by not bringing an anvil, buy logs, bars of base metals you expect your site to lack, and (if needed) coal (for fuel and coke) and/or dolomite (for flux).<br />
<br />
===== Items (slow start) =====<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]]s<br />
* lots of logs - at least 25 on a heavily forested map. You can survive without them, but it's a lot cheaper to buy logs to make barrels than to bring more drink.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Free Equipment ===<br />
<br />
Dwarves who start with the ambusher skill get some leather armor, a crossbow and some bolts for free. <br />
<br />
<br />
=== Challenge Builds ===<br />
If you want a challenge try some [[Challenge_Builds]].<br />
<br />
{{Starting FAQ}}</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Starting_builds&diff=951640d:Starting builds2008-02-19T21:52:43Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''Starting builds''' are different strategies that you can choose when starting a new game in [[fortress mode]]. The skills and items which you assign to your dwarves will have a large impact on life in your new fortress' development, especially in its first year.<br />
<br />
This page gives advice on some of the many gameplay elements which influence the flow of your game based on your goals. These include: choosing a ''fortress site'', the ''starting build'' itself - defined by who and what to take with you - as well as ''challenge builds'' aimed at providing new or unusual challenges to advanced players.<br />
<br />
* Your First Fortress?<br />
Note: If you are a new player looking for solid basis to survive the first couple of months or years, check out [[Your_first_fortress|this guide]]. It includes a basic starting build similar to the one discussed below.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Components of a Starting Build ==<br />
<br />
=== Skills ===<br />
<br />
Each dwarf can learn any of a large number of [[skills]]. <br />
<br />
* Dwarves with little experience in a skill will work slowly and ineffectively.<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced [[farming|farmers]] and [[herbalist|herbalists], for example, will crush many plants and only sometimes harvest one or two items. This results in a small overall harvest which takes many [[container#container|containers]] to store in, less effective food preparation in the kitchen, and more space needed for [[stockpiles]].<br />
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* Inexperienced [[Miner|miners]] work very slowly. Mining can be levelled up quite quickly by mining [[soil#soil|soil]], but taking two dwarves with at least some points in mining is recommended in many cases.<br />
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* Dwarves improve their skills on a learning-by-doing-basis. Dwarves who have specific labors enabled will, after a while, progress to Dabbling users of their skill, and continue to learn from performing that labor.<br />
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* Inexperienced dwarves who create items in nearly all [[workshops#workshops|workshops]] will create low [[quality#quality|quality]] goods, and take a long time doing so. Skilled dwarves work quickly and produce high-quality items.<br />
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* [[Quality]] is a central concept in the game - it affects [[food]] and [[alcohol]], almost anything you will have your dwarves create in the game: [[trading]] goods, [[barrel|barrels]], [[clothing]], [[armor]], [[furniture]], [[weapons]], and so on. Quality also very much affects the worth of an item while [[trading]].<br />
<br />
Overall, 'Levelling up' the dwarves' skills quickly is a good game goal to set. Doing so [[losing|may]] result your dwarves efficiently creating a magnificent fortress filled to the brim with valuable items and furniture.<br />
<br />
Using and seeing high-quality items gives dwarves happy [[thoughts]]. This tends to increase a fortress' [[tantrum|longevity]].<br />
<br />
==== Combining Skills ====<br />
Some [[skills]] are highly time-consuming, and working at different jobs levels up specific [[attribute]]s. One could level up a miner until hes becomes mighty and ultra-tough - and then turn him into a soldier. If you plan on doing so, it may not be a good idea to give this guy another critical job such as Trader and Record Keeper, but maybe military skills depending on how soon you intend to have [[soldier]]s.<br />
<br />
Since tasks will take place in specific areas, it makes sense to combine tasks into dwarves who will take care of a specific industry - so Combine (indoor) farming with cooking (not mining), for example.<br />
<br />
Most builds recommend combinations such as:<br />
<br />
* Woodcutter/Carpenter. Spends most of the summer out in the woods, and winter indoors turning them into beds.<br />
* Mason. Apparently, in most many fortresses, the Mason is a very busy man indeed.<br />
* Farmer/Cook, Farmer/Brewer. Basic two-person food team.<br />
* Farmer/Herbalist, Farmer/Brewer/Cook. One bold dwarf to farm and venture outside looking for wild plants, the other to keep busy in the still, kitchen, and indoor farms.<br />
* Noble/Boss: Novice [[Judge of intent]]/Novice [[Appraiser]]/Novice [[Organizer]]/Novice [[Record keeper]]. Combine this with a single time-intensive task such as Masonry or Mining, and optionally turn off all hauling tasks right at the start of the game. This results in an all-around Boss and Trader (who can usually be coerced into going to the trade depot and hold meetings just by turning the main profession off).<br />
* Craftsdwarf, depending on your strategy - e.g. [[glass]] maker, weapon smith or armor smith, sometiomes combined with related tasks from that industry (furnace operating, wood burning). Typically an item hauler in the initial months of your fortress, this dwarf may become one of your most valuable dwarves later.<br />
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<br />
=== Items ===<br />
<br />
Some basics are recommended for all builds. You definitely need to bring one [[pick]] for each [[miner]], some [[food]], and some [[alcohol]]. Everything else depends on your strategy and on how tough or leisurely a challenge you want the game to be.<br />
<br />
Note: Many of the quantities suggested end in a "1" or a "6". This is to maximize the number of [[barrels]] you start with, since most foodstuffs fit five to a barrel. More barrels will let you build a larger stockpile for your first winter and conserves the [[wood]] you harvest in the early game for beds and other necessities.<br />
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<br />
<br />
== Fortress Sites ==<br />
Each fortress site offers particular challenges and opportunities. The starting builds below can and should be adjusted depending on the specific vision you have of your fortress ... and what it will take to stay [[losing|alive]] where you're going!<br />
<br />
=== Mountains ===<br />
Most dwarven fortresses are founded along the edges of mountain ranges on sites that combine abundant ore and access to the outside world. Magma and rare metals lure settlers here, but [[goblins]], [[chasm]] dwellers, and even [[giant eagle]]s are potent threats.<br />
<br />
Trees and plants do not grow at high elevations, so you'll want to include non-mountainous areas to obtain lumber and food - or, failing this, to pack a lot of extra food and logs.<br />
<br />
Other consideration is elevation range. The game allows access up to 15 levels above the highest peak and 15 levels below the deepest valley, so steeper slopes means much more diggable area. The downside is lag; more levels also means more CPU burden (this can cripple a fortress - be careful).<br />
<br />
Be sure to include a stream on the map; running water is (almost) essential for any fortress. In Cold and Freezing climates streams and lakes will often be frozen year-round and your dwarves may quickly die of exposure. Choose Temperate or tropical zones for an easier game.<br />
<br />
=== Wooded Plains (with trees and plants) ===<br />
Flatlands with at least some trees and gatherable plants can also make for highly successful fortresses. <br />
<br />
Advantages over mountain zones include abundant trees and plants, guaranteed agriculture both on the surface and underground, fewer hostile fortresses and caves, and (unless frozen) more abundant water. There are even (rare) magma vents.<br />
<br />
The greatest disadvantage is a lack of rock to mine. Fewer elevations means fewer exploitable z-levels. The first few levels below the surface are almost always soil, peat, loam, clay, or sand, none of which offers much (or any) gems, ore, or building material. An [[aquifer]], if present, may bar all access to stone until you freeze, pump out, or find a way through the water.<br />
<br />
=== Desert, Glaciers, and Barren (few or no trees and plants) ===<br />
Treeless (or near-treeless) biomes are challenging sites for a fortress: you get most of the disadvantages of a flatland site without having access to nearly as many trees and plants. However, near-lifeless zones such as glaciers are wonderful for those with slower machines, as there's little to burden the CPU but your dwarves and livestock. Deserts and barren areas often have sand; with a sufficient source of energy (preferably magma), you can build almost anything out of unlimited glass.<br />
<br />
=== Ocean Side ===<br />
An interesting combination of a few of the above locations, beaches are often a mix of ease intermingled with bouts of extreme difficulty. Minerals and trees are often abundant, as well as farmland and sand, but there is often no drinking water unless the biome has a river.<br />
There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Basic Build ==<br />
<br />
The first order of business is simply to survive. Here is a simple, somewhat paranoid, way to do this.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
On most (but not all) sites, you'll want to get food, brew drink, mine, make wood and stone items, and trade. Whatever additional skills you purchase, be sure to cover these. If you need more points to buy skills (and it's a good idea to buy lots of skills), remove a battle axe.<br />
<br />
* 2 miners<br />
* 1 mason/mechanic<br />
* 1 carpenter/woodcutter<br />
* 1 grower/brewer/cook. He's responsible for making prepared meals and drinks.<br />
* either a herbalist/grower, or a fisherdwarf, or a hunter. The first gets you lots of brewable plants on maps with plants, the second gets you food and bones on maps with water (in maps with dangerous fish such as [[carp]] fishing is suicidal so be careful), and the third gets you meat and bones on maps with animals. Herbalism is usually the safest of the three.<br />
* 1 spare dwarf. You might make him the leader and broker; if so, give him at least novice [[appraiser]] skill so you know what stuff is worth. You might make him responsible for making trade goods, or turn him into your first soldier, or you might just give him some skills you want to experiment with.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
You want picks, food, and drink. Everything else is optional. The suggestions below assume you spent the maximum possible on skills. We'll pack lots just to be safe.<br />
<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s - 1 per miner<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] - so you can chop wood<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - so you can make weapons, trade crafts, and such<br />
* 20 units of drink: [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]] are all good. [[dwarven wine]] you'll get through brewing.<br />
* 30 [[plump helmets]] - They're good to eat and produce 5 units of booze for each one brewed at a [[still]].<br />
* 5 turtles - they get you bones and shells<br />
* 20 [[plump helmet spawn]] - for planting.<br />
* 2 dogs - to guard against thieves and help kill intruders.<br />
* (optional) other kinds of seeds and rock nuts<br />
* (optional) 1 of many different kinds of meats for extra barrels<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
If the map is treeless, remove the battle axe and spend the freed points on more plump helmets and logs (you're going to run out however many you bring...).<br />
<br />
If you're willing to wait a year or two to do any metalworking and you're sure traders will come, remove the anvil and spend the freed points on such things as skills, food and drink, wood, leather, raw materials, or weapons.<br />
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<br />
=== '''Rapid Expansion''' ===<br />
A plan for quick growth followed up by heavy immigration works well both as an early game strategy and as an assist for a late game foundation. Starting off with the anvil is also much less troublesome if you drop both battleaxes and make your own picks too. Don't worry though, you'll be digging out cavernous villas in no time, and cheaply too, with this build. Food and stone will be in abundance and you'll have excellent worker time utilization. And due to the early metalworking and distributed skills your dwarves have, soon you'll have powerful steel-armored warrior workers that'll form the bedrock of a city guard.<br />
<br />
Always build a wood burning furnace, Smelter and Metalsmith shop first, and take apart that wagon for extra logs. Either burn those logs into charcoal, or smelt coal into fuel, and then make your tools.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
By dropping both picks and axes you'll be able to afford a lot of useful skills, and you'll be able to get a metalsmithing shop running within the first seconds of your game, so no precious time is lost. Your Dwarves are divided largely into two groups, your laborers (Butcher, Baker and candle--er, Brewer) and your craftsdwarves. Essentially a Blue collar/White collar divide to set up a nice class war later. Also, by having such wide assortments of skills, your dwarves will get lots of attribute bonuses and become extremely capable fighters by the time you need to worry about that.<br />
<br />
Laborers are given mining and growing skills with some extra to cover food production. The Ranger is the oddball, but will spend his early days gathering plants and hauling items, so fits here. Your first order of business with them is to dig that top later out quickly and get some farms started and fully stocked. Then, as they grow, you can go back to digging out the rest of the base.<br />
<br />
* The Baker: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Cooking.<br />
* The Brewer: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Brewing.<br />
* The Butcher: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +1 Butchering, +1 Tanning, +1 Leatherworking. Make some bags for sand and the Quarry Bushes and a butcher's shop before the Ranger starts his hunts.<br />
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* The Ranger: +3 Woodcutter, +3 Carpenter, +1 Herbalist, +1 Ambusher, +2 Axedwarf. Be sure to assign a war dog or two to this guy, since he's the only one who needs to go outside. Once he gets an axe, he'll also be a competent fighter and hunter and will start with armor due to +1 ambusher.<br />
<br />
Craftsdwarves focus on running shops, building trade goods, and making the outpost as profitable as possible in the first year, to attract additional immigrants that can be thrown into the mines or toil in the mushroom fields. They should have very broad skill bases, but the actual choice of leader is up to you.<br />
<br />
* The Smithy: +1 Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Metalsmith, Furnace Operator, Wood Burner, Stone Crafting, Bone Carving. This guy will cover all of your rarely needed creation skills, and make your picks and axes. After this he usually ends up making scads of stone crafts for sale. Glassworking, gem cutting, and potash making are good as well, and even with novice in all areas you'll build fast enough for these rare items.<br />
* The Foreman: +3 Building Design, +3 Mechanic, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper. Building design and mechanical work is extremely quick work, so instead give him nobleman skills to spend the rest of his work hours on. These are extremely useful in the long-term.<br />
* The Freemason: +5 Masonry. It seems a bit silly to give him just one primary skill, but Masons are usually working 24 hours a day on all variety of stone doors, chairs and tables.<br />
<br />
There's a variation if you want a more 'compact' design of those last two:<br />
<br />
* The Construction Worker: +5 Masonry, +3 Mechanic, +2 Building Design.<br />
* The Lazy Boss: +3 Fishing, +3 Fish Cleaning, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper.<br />
<br />
This is not as useful or safe, as Fishing is a time-intensive skill, so it takes him away from his record keeping job for extended periods and a Carp might kill him. It also forces your Mason to get behind on Queues every time someone needs a trap build or a workshop set up. Halting book-keeping doesn't slow down any production, so the original stat-spread can work out better.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
The only thing you need is your anvil, a few stones and bars of metal, everything else is optional. A point of contention is the Iron Axe you'll be making, as some may prefer it to be steel. Steel Bars cost 150, which is three times the cost of iron, and only provide a small damage bonus and no chopping speed bonus. If you start in an area with [[Limestone]] or [[Chalk]] you'll soon be able to smelt Steel with your functioning metalsmith shop anyway. If you're on a map without trees, well, I suppose you don't need the axe at all. But in that case you'd be better off taking the picks, dropping the anvil, and buying a few hundred logs.<br />
<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - this is what makes it all possible, and helps you get started faster.<br />
* 3 [[Copper|Copper bars]] - these cost 10 each, and will be your picks. Three for the price of one, literally.<br />
* 1 [[Iron|Iron bar]] - this costs 50, and will be your axe. The 40 extra is worth it for the damage increase you get over copper or bronze.<br />
* 2 [[Bituminous coal]] or [[Log]]s - you can smelt two coal into 4 fuel for the cost of 2 logs. Inexpensive at 3 each, one can afford to bring more.<br />
* 4 cheap stone - any sort works, such as inexpensive [[granite]]. You'll use these to make your first three buildings.<br />
<br />
That's what you need to get started, but this is a guide for the items on your list. This build does not require or recommend bringing plump helmets due to their cost. Instead, encourage your dwarves to eat the turtles and meat out of the barrels and cook wine biscuits. Your farms will be running amazingly quickly anyway, and for half the cost of a single helmet you can make feed several dwarves on baked beer. You'll get enough seeds from brewing the [[plump helmets]] soon enough.<br />
<br />
* 26 of [[Dwarven wine|Wine]], [[Dwarven rum|Rum]], [[Dwarven beer|Beer]] and [[Dwarven ale|Ale]]<br />
* 36 of [[rock nut]]s, [[Plump helmet spawn]] and [[Pig tail]] [[seeds]]<br />
* 11 [[turtle]]s - these hilarious little dudes are way better than the meat you usually set out with, what with all the bones they leave. I use these as 'before farming' rations and build up a good supply of bone bolts. Shells are also valuable to have around.<br />
* 1 of each other 2 cost meat, for extra empty barrels. Barrels cost 10, so getting any food below that can save you money.<br />
* 2 [[Dogs]] - preferably war dogs or hunting dogs. Assign these to your Ranger. Bring a pair so you can make more dogs.<br />
* 1 [[Horse]] - they're relatively inexpensive and will help you begin breeding horses faster, as you are nearly always getting a horse with your wagon. Livestock are a valuable commodity for meat and bones, and you want as many of these as possible 'emergency rations' on hand.<br />
* 4 [[Leather]] - you need leather bags to process [[quarry bush]]es and to gather sand for glass. Four will be enough, and you can get it for only 20.<br />
<br />
If you do it exactly as written, you will end up with a few points left over. Grab some extra food or upgrade one of your copper bars to an actual copper pick, if you want a faster start. These foodstuffs will last a very long time if managed properly, so get your farms going and start preparing for next year now.<br />
<br />
=== Metalbashing/Glassworking ===<br />
Heavy metalbashing and glassworking requires a site with 1) abundant fuel and 2) raw materials. Magma is ideal but large coal seams or a forest will also suffice. A site with either limestone or chalk means nearly unlimited steel. Any site with "sand" (not "loamy sand" or the like) will permit glassworking. Failing these, any place with lots of rock, trees, and preferably sand will work fine. Your biggest choice when setting up is whether to optimize for a fast start or long-term success.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & Skills ====<br />
Unless you're trying a low-skills challenge, each dwarf should get the maximum possible number (currently 10) of skill boosts; remove a battle axe to free up needed points. Individual preferences can be mighty handy; if you have a dwarf who likes steel, clear glass, crossbows, siege engine parts, or something else equally interesting, he's an ideal candidate for matching skills.<br />
<br />
* A Carpenter/Leader: Points into Carpenter, Wood Cutter, and a bunch of nobles' skills, including at least novice Negotiator and Appraiser. This dwarf should have good inter-personal thoughts/preferences.<br />
* A Mason/Mechanic: Points into Mason, Building Designer, and Mechanic. Adding more points to Mason gets construction materials and furniture faster. More points to Mechanic allows faster trap-setting. Adding Appraiser and/or Negotiator skills gives you a back-up leader or broker. A boost to Wrestling gets you better on-call defense.<br />
* A Farmer/Herbalist (assumes the site has at least some plants): This dwarf will gather the plant material you need to brew drinks. Points into Grower and Herbalist. Leftover skill raises should be invested in a valuable, hard to raise trade skill such as [[Blacksmith]], [[Metal_crafter|Metal Crafter]], or perhaps [[Glassmaker]] or [[Clothier]].<br />
* A Farmer/Brewer/Cook: This dwarf is responsible for keeping your community fed and liquored up. Points into Grower, Brewer, and (optionally) Cook. Leftover skill raises should be invested as for the Farmer/Herbalist.<br />
* A Craftsdwarf: Points into whatever hard-to-raise skills you most want. [[Armorsmith]], [[Weaponsmith]], [[Bowyer]], [[Glassmaker]], and even [[Siege_engineer|Siege Engineer]], [[Clothier]], or [[Gem_setter|Gem Setter]] can all be good choices depending on your setup. If you plan to bash metal, remember to spend a few points on Furnace Operator and (if needed) Wood Burning.<br />
* 2 Miners/Soldiers: Points into both mining and military skills. The miners first get legendary and then become extremely powerful fighters. Remember that it's much easier to increase Mining skill than most of the military skills (especially Armor User), but also that you'll want capable miners immediately.<br />
<br />
With this setup, you have several ways to make the trade goods you'll need to buy what you lack. Metal goblets, stone mugs, handwear, footwear, mechanisms, bone or wood crossbows, prepared meals, or bone and shell crafts are all solid choices.<br />
<br />
Food and drink for the first few seasons are assured by first cooking all the meat to free up barrels, then brewing your plump helmets (and any gathered plants) to make booze.<br />
<br />
==== Items (all starts) ====<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s<br />
* 6 or 11 of each of [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]]. With abundant brewable plants and lots of wood you don't actually need any starting booze, but it's nice to have a backup.<br />
* at least 11 [[plump helmet]]s. Bring a lot more if you anticipate problems with gathering brewable plants.<br />
* at least 6 [[turtle]]s. Not only are they good eating, they ensure you have the [[shell]]s and [[bone]]s needed to satisfy [[strange mood]]s.<br />
* 1 of every kind of meat that costs 2 or 4, as each type of meat will be packed in its own free barrel and cooking the meat will release that barrel for use. If you don't like this feature, bring more turtles or plump helmets instead.<br />
* Unless the map is glacial, or you intend only outdoor agriculture, bring plenty of seeds as well. A minimum of 15 plump helmet spawn are essential for a quick start to underground agriculture; rock nuts, sweet pod seeds, pig tail seeds, and cave wheat seeds will diversify your meals and drinks and let you set up for clothes-making. Seeds are packed in bags.<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
===== Items (fast start) =====<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]] - you'll save points by making it yourself.<br />
* only a few logs (just enough to get started with), unless the map has no trees<br />
<br />
See [[Make Your Own Weapons]] for more details on what to bring and how to make the battle axes you need to chop wood.<br />
<br />
===== Items (moderate start) =====<br />
Warning: Going without an anvil will slow you down until you get one in trade (which normally takes about 6 or 7 seasons) and might even cost you a failed [[strange mood]].<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] (at present, steel is the only option)<br />
* few or no logs, unless the map has no trees<br />
* with the points you save by not bringing an anvil, buy logs, bars of base metals you expect your site to lack, and (if needed) coal (for fuel and coke) and/or dolomite (for flux).<br />
<br />
===== Items (slow start) =====<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]]s<br />
* lots of logs - at least 25 on a heavily forested map. You can survive without them, but it's a lot cheaper to buy logs to make barrels than to bring more drink.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Free Equipment ===<br />
<br />
Dwarves who start with the ambusher skill get some leather armor, a crossbow and some bolts for free. <br />
<br />
<br />
=== Challenge Builds ===<br />
If you want a challenge try some [[Challenge_Builds]].<br />
<br />
{{Starting FAQ}}</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Starting_build&diff=1234040d Talk:Starting build2008-02-19T21:51:46Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
<hr />
<div>Hey, I'll have to see who wrote these starting builds and see if I can't contact him/her, but "About & Challenges" sounds uh... not informational? How about "Overview"? I don't want to edit your work here without your approval (even though I could do so on my own.) [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 22:14, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
: Feel free to adjust the "About & Challenges" to anything else. It was just something to group one of the blocks of text and encourage others to write similar blocks of text. "Overview" sounds much better. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 22:55, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
i wrote the dwarves & skills part and wrote a small info on why to take this kind of a build as most of the items you take are heavily dependant on the area you are in.<br />
<br />
<br />
Overviw sounds better though so i agree with that<br />
<br />
<br />
also for the guy who asked why 10 bags; bags might be hard to come by in this version since cave spiders arent always there, which leads to little or no silk in the starting areas, and hunting might not be the best idea if you have dark gnomes or something like that in the area, and if you dont have any bags, making a glass indrusty will prove very hard.<br />
<br />
:No ''sand'' on a map makes making glass even harder. No, impossible.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 05:52, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
== trade goods ==<br />
<br />
The mountain build suggests lots of turtle for trade goods as you'll have no wood, however shell and bone goods are worth next to nothing and roasts are worth enough to build out whole caravan. So rather then crafter and wood cutter skills I'd just go with a high-level cooking and sell excess food. (on the other hand shell and bone goods don't rot away ¬_¬) --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 06:03, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Food ==<br />
<br />
The builds suggest taking at least 6 of each 2 cost food items, but I would suggest only one of each 2 food item (for a free barrel) and a lot of turtles, which leave both shells and bones. As other meats only leave either a bone or nothing at all. So for the easiest game use turtles. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 09:16, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Steel Axes? ==<br />
<br />
I noticed in the build it says to get 2 copper picks and one steel axe. The first real attempt I made at getting a fortress going, the first thing I did was ditch the _steel_ axe in favour of a cheaper material, and got a better pick. Steel items cost 300. Copper costs 20. While it makes sense to have a few extra copper picks in case your miner gets killed, a good solid iron pick will make the early mining (And his skill increase) go a lot faster. Contrarily, you really don't need steel axes. Iron is more than enough. Even copper will do just fine. And you really only need one. And, rather than ditching your anvil for stuff, try ditching your steel axe for 100 logs. Thats more than enough to last you till you have a smelter going and can make your own axes. - Stormlock 7:03 Nov 1<br />
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:Steel axes are the only axes available on the preparation screen now. Does anyone know if this is a bug or not? --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:47, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:Digging speed is not affected by the material the pick is made out of, as explained on the [[pick]] page. Neither are [[battle axe]]s. Therefore, you should just take the cheapest one. I've never been able to pick any axes other than steel either, however. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 17:33, 10 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Layout ==<br />
<br />
Should we really be dividing this up by biome? Seems to me it would be a better idea to lay this out as a series of options, e.g. "If you're settling in a mountainous/treeless region, drop your axes and take logs instead" etc. The new choices for landing site seem too diverse to keep the old formula methods of deciding on party goods. --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:48, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Challenge or game goals? ==<br />
<br />
I added "Hunting party" & "Immigration & customs enforcement", but I'm not really sure where the line between challenge builds and [[Game_goals|Game goals]] lies. Any guidance? --[[User:Kidinnu|Kidinnu]] 08:18, 19 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== IOGT ==<br />
I added AA to the IOGT title since ... I've never even heard of the IOGT and had to Google it. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 11:13, 19 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Created an ice-centric challenge. ==<br />
<br />
Feel free to edit it to make it more coherent or fun. --[[User:Digi|Digi]] 03:50, 27 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== 2.2 and 2.3.2.4 ==<br />
<br />
These two have a lot of redundancy between them. I can't really think of a good way to merge them though, since there is definitely information in each that should probably stay separate. --[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]] 16:06, 2 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:Agreed. Moved some advice to external linked page. [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 03:46, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==The Mad Butcher==<br />
You're doing it wrong, you need to butcher the animals through the Status\Animals menu instead of pit-killing them. - Jackard<br />
<blockquote><br />
''"If you want to take this even further, bring along a ton of kittens instead of any meat. Even the cheapest meat is going to run you 2 apiece, which for a stack of six is 12 points. A kitten is 11 points. In addition to the stack of meat you get a stack of bones and a skull as well as a raw hide. So much for so little, <s>and you could probably get a butcher to legendary in a single year if you splattered all the kittens first.</s>" - IantheKorean''<br />
:''"But you still have the issue that kitten corpses aren't -- for some obscure reason -- butcherable. The only way tame animals can be cut up for meat is through the menu, and you can only pit tame animals, so it doesn't work unless you modify the raws." [http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2677834&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=42#post336292122 - TouretteDog]''<br />
</blockquote><br />
:Right you are! I forgot to add the edit to the raws. Updating... BTW, do you know who first suggested this? I wanted to give them credit, but I can't seem to find the thread again. --[[User:ERoberts|ERoberts]] 08:33, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::The link is on my Talk page. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 12:42, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
::It's more broken than that though point 7 talks about setting it up so the butcher cannot escape, but if that is the case then you'll be hard pressed to feed the fort as in point 9 --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 09:00, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
Naw, that's just an engineering challenge! One way to solve it is to make a couple of stockpiles with an airlock mechanic. When the Mad Butcher can access one, haulers are locked out. When the stock pile is full, lock the butcher's door and unlock the haulers door.<br />
<br />
==Critique of the "Rapid Expansion" build==<br />
I didn't write it, so I'm not going to rewrite it unless I get approval. But I do have some beefs with it. [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 03:54, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
* The introduction is too wordy for this page and is more suited to a player's guide.<br />
* The cross-training causes some of the dwarves to simultaneously be in demand for several essential early tasks, such as food-preparation and digging both.<br />
* Suggesting a hunter/ranger is a death sentence on some maps; a warning is needed. Also, you also NEVER want to suggest making your leader a fisherdwarf, warning or no; at present, it's just too dangerous a profession at many sites to risk your appraiser/organizer/trader in.<br />
* Strange moods in key trade skills are essential for a truly high-value fortress. The suggested skill set doesn't work at all well with strange moods; most dwarves will get nothing interesting from a strange mood and you don't know what The Smithy will make.<br />
* Instead of the The Smithy being a "jack of all trades", he should be a master of a couple, chosen with both an eye to your fortress location and to his innate preferences. You'll get much more value this way, which is the declared point of this build.<br />
* The comment "This build does not require or recommend bringing plump helmets due to their cost." is factually incorrect. A 4-point plump helmet gets you five 2-point booze, plus several seeds, for each one brewed; all of this can become food. I know of no cheaper way to ensure both food and drink than bringing plump helmets.<br />
* Bringing stone is unnecessary to make workshops. Just make the temporary buildings out of logs or raw materials and free them up later.<br />
* The comment "as you are nearly always getting a horse with your wagon" is incorrect in my experience; I've known times when a horse was pulling the wagon, but more likely than not I don't have one.<br />
* The comment "The only thing you need is your anvil, a few stones and bars of metal, everything else is optional" is totally false for many fortress sites and requires a skilled, experienced player at all others.<br />
* Speaking generally, this build is very much tailored to particular ways of playing the game, assumes particular kinds of site, requires a fair amount of skill, and therefore is - IMHO - not particularly well suited to an introductory page as written.<br />
<br />
: Agreed [[User:Kidinnu|Kidinnu]] 09:03, 12 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Starting builds page sucks ==<br />
<br />
Frankly, this page sucks. There is too much irrelevant and or useless information. I made a few changes to cut down on the clutter, but the advice on this page stinks. We should focus more on what the best uses of points are instead of personal builds that have little relation to optimal strategy. I don't have time to do this right now. --[[User:Belasarius|Belasarius]] 23:20, 29 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Added an introduction which, hopefully, explains what creating a build is about (skills, items).<br />
I'd suggest moving the discussion of possible environments somewhere, but didn't want to replace that large chapter with a simple ' [[biome]]s' :-) [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 16:51, 19 February 2008 (EST)</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Starting_builds&diff=951540d:Starting builds2008-02-19T21:49:28Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''Starting builds''' are different strategies that you can choose when starting a new game in [[fortress mode]]. The skills and items which you assign to your dwarves will have a large impact on life in your new fortress' development, especially in its first year.<br />
<br />
This page gives advice on some of the many gameplay elements which influence the flow of your game based on your goals. These include: choosing a ''fortress site'', the ''starting build'' itself - defined by who and what to take with you - as well as ''challenge builds'' aimed at providing new or unusual challenges to advanced players.<br />
<br />
* Your First Fortress?<br />
Note: If you are a new player looking for solid basis to survive the first couple of months or years , vheck out [[Your_first_fortress|this guide]]. It includes a basic starting build similar to the one discussed below.<br />
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<br />
== Components of a Starting Build ==<br />
<br />
=== Skills ===<br />
<br />
Each dwarf can learn any of a large number of [[skills]]. <br />
<br />
* Dwarves with little experience in a skill will work slowly and ineffectively.<br />
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* Inexperienced [[farming|farmers]] and [[herbalist|herbalists], for example, will crush many plants and only sometimes harvest one or two items. This results in a small overall harvest which takes many [[container#container|containers]] to store in, less effective food preparation in the kitchen, and more space needed for [[stockpiles]].<br />
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* Inexperienced [[Miner|miners]] work very slowly. Mining can be levelled up quite quickly by mining [[soil#soil|soil]], but taking two dwarves with at least some points in mining is recommended in many cases.<br />
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* Dwarves improve their skills on a learning-by-doing-basis. Dwarves who have specific labors enabled will, after a while, progress to Dabbling users of their skill, and continue to learn from performing that labor.<br />
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* Inexperienced dwarves who create items in nearly all [[workshops#workshops|workshops]] will create low [[quality#quality|quality]] goods, and take a long time doing so. Skilled dwarves work quickly and produce high-quality items.<br />
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* [[Quality]] is a central concept in the game - it affects [[food]] and [[alcohol]], almost anything you will have your dwarves create in the game: [[trading]] goods, [[barrel|barrels]], [[clothing]], [[armor]], [[furniture]], [[weapons]], and so on. Quality also very much affects the worth of an item while [[trading]].<br />
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Overall, 'Levelling up' the dwarves' skills quickly is a good game goal to set. Doing so [[losing|may]] result your dwarves efficiently creating a magnificent fortress filled to the brim with valuable items and furniture.<br />
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Using and seeing high-quality items gives dwarves happy [[thoughts]]. This tends to increase a fortress' [[tantrum|longevity]].<br />
<br />
==== Combining Skills ====<br />
Some [[skills]] are highly time-consuming, and working at different jobs levels up specific [[attribute]]s. One could level up a miner until hes becomes mighty and ultra-tough - and then turn him into a soldier. If you plan on doing so, it may not be a good idea to give this guy another critical job such as Trader and Record Keeper, but maybe military skills depending on how soon you intend to have [[soldier]]s.<br />
<br />
Since tasks will take place in specific areas, it makes sense to combine tasks into dwarves who will take care of a specific industry - so Combine (indoor) farming with cooking (not mining), for example.<br />
<br />
Most builds recommend combinations such as:<br />
<br />
* Woodcutter/Carpenter. Spends most of the summer out in the woods, and winter indoors turning them into beds.<br />
* Mason. Apparently, in most many fortresses, the Mason is a very busy man indeed.<br />
* Farmer/Cook, Farmer/Brewer. Basic two-person food team.<br />
* Farmer/Herbalist, Farmer/Brewer/Cook. One bold dwarf to farm and venture outside looking for wild plants, the other to keep busy in the still, kitchen, and indoor farms.<br />
* Noble/Boss: Novice [[Judge of intent]]/Novice [[Appraiser]]/Novice [[Organizer]]/Novice [[Record keeper]]. Combine this with a single time-intensive task such as Masonry or Mining, and optionally turn off all hauling tasks right at the start of the game. This results in an all-around Boss and Trader (who can usually be coerced into going to the trade depot and hold meetings just by turning the main profession off).<br />
* Craftsdwarf, depending on your strategy - e.g. [[glass]] maker, weapon smith or armor smith, sometiomes combined with related tasks from that industry (furnace operating, wood burning). Typically an item hauler in the initial months of your fortress, this dwarf may become one of your most valuable dwarves later.<br />
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<br />
=== Items ===<br />
<br />
Some basics are recommended for all builds. You definitely need to bring one [[pick]] for each [[miner]], some [[food]], and some [[alcohol]]. Everything else depends on your strategy and on how tough or leisurely a challenge you want the game to be.<br />
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Note: Many of the quantities suggested end in a "1" or a "6". This is to maximize the number of [[barrels]] you start with, since most foodstuffs fit five to a barrel. More barrels will let you build a larger stockpile for your first winter and conserves the [[wood]] you harvest in the early game for beds and other necessities.<br />
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<br />
<br />
== Fortress Sites ==<br />
Each fortress site offers particular challenges and opportunities. The starting builds below can and should be adjusted depending on the specific vision you have of your fortress ... and what it will take to stay [[losing|alive]] where you're going!<br />
<br />
=== Mountains ===<br />
Most dwarven fortresses are founded along the edges of mountain ranges on sites that combine abundant ore and access to the outside world. Magma and rare metals lure settlers here, but [[goblins]], [[chasm]] dwellers, and even [[giant eagle]]s are potent threats.<br />
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Trees and plants do not grow at high elevations, so you'll want to include non-mountainous areas to obtain lumber and food - or, failing this, to pack a lot of extra food and logs.<br />
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Other consideration is elevation range. The game allows access up to 15 levels above the highest peak and 15 levels below the deepest valley, so steeper slopes means much more diggable area. The downside is lag; more levels also means more CPU burden (this can cripple a fortress - be careful).<br />
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Be sure to include a stream on the map; running water is (almost) essential for any fortress. In Cold and Freezing climates streams and lakes will often be frozen year-round and your dwarves may quickly die of exposure. Choose Temperate or tropical zones for an easier game.<br />
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=== Wooded Plains (with trees and plants) ===<br />
Flatlands with at least some trees and gatherable plants can also make for highly successful fortresses. <br />
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Advantages over mountain zones include abundant trees and plants, guaranteed agriculture both on the surface and underground, fewer hostile fortresses and caves, and (unless frozen) more abundant water. There are even (rare) magma vents.<br />
<br />
The greatest disadvantage is a lack of rock to mine. Fewer elevations means fewer exploitable z-levels. The first few levels below the surface are almost always soil, peat, loam, clay, or sand, none of which offers much (or any) gems, ore, or building material. An [[aquifer]], if present, may bar all access to stone until you freeze, pump out, or find a way through the water.<br />
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=== Desert, Glaciers, and Barren (few or no trees and plants) ===<br />
Treeless (or near-treeless) biomes are challenging sites for a fortress: you get most of the disadvantages of a flatland site without having access to nearly as many trees and plants. However, near-lifeless zones such as glaciers are wonderful for those with slower machines, as there's little to burden the CPU but your dwarves and livestock. Deserts and barren areas often have sand; with a sufficient source of energy (preferably magma), you can build almost anything out of unlimited glass.<br />
<br />
=== Ocean Side ===<br />
An interesting combination of a few of the above locations, beaches are often a mix of ease intermingled with bouts of extreme difficulty. Minerals and trees are often abundant, as well as farmland and sand, but there is often no drinking water unless the biome has a river.<br />
There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales.<br />
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<br />
<br />
== Basic Build ==<br />
<br />
The first order of business is simply to survive. Here is a simple, somewhat paranoid, way to do this.<br />
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==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
On most (but not all) sites, you'll want to get food, brew drink, mine, make wood and stone items, and trade. Whatever additional skills you purchase, be sure to cover these. If you need more points to buy skills (and it's a good idea to buy lots of skills), remove a battle axe.<br />
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* 2 miners<br />
* 1 mason/mechanic<br />
* 1 carpenter/woodcutter<br />
* 1 grower/brewer/cook. He's responsible for making prepared meals and drinks.<br />
* either a herbalist/grower, or a fisherdwarf, or a hunter. The first gets you lots of brewable plants on maps with plants, the second gets you food and bones on maps with water (in maps with dangerous fish such as [[carp]] fishing is suicidal so be careful), and the third gets you meat and bones on maps with animals. Herbalism is usually the safest of the three.<br />
* 1 spare dwarf. You might make him the leader and broker; if so, give him at least novice [[appraiser]] skill so you know what stuff is worth. You might make him responsible for making trade goods, or turn him into your first soldier, or you might just give him some skills you want to experiment with.<br />
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==== Items ====<br />
You want picks, food, and drink. Everything else is optional. The suggestions below assume you spent the maximum possible on skills. We'll pack lots just to be safe.<br />
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* 2 [[pick]]s - 1 per miner<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] - so you can chop wood<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - so you can make weapons, trade crafts, and such<br />
* 20 units of drink: [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]] are all good. [[dwarven wine]] you'll get through brewing.<br />
* 30 [[plump helmets]] - They're good to eat and produce 5 units of booze for each one brewed at a [[still]].<br />
* 5 turtles - they get you bones and shells<br />
* 20 [[plump helmet spawn]] - for planting.<br />
* 2 dogs - to guard against thieves and help kill intruders.<br />
* (optional) other kinds of seeds and rock nuts<br />
* (optional) 1 of many different kinds of meats for extra barrels<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
If the map is treeless, remove the battle axe and spend the freed points on more plump helmets and logs (you're going to run out however many you bring...).<br />
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If you're willing to wait a year or two to do any metalworking and you're sure traders will come, remove the anvil and spend the freed points on such things as skills, food and drink, wood, leather, raw materials, or weapons.<br />
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<br />
=== '''Rapid Expansion''' ===<br />
A plan for quick growth followed up by heavy immigration works well both as an early game strategy and as an assist for a late game foundation. Starting off with the anvil is also much less troublesome if you drop both battleaxes and make your own picks too. Don't worry though, you'll be digging out cavernous villas in no time, and cheaply too, with this build. Food and stone will be in abundance and you'll have excellent worker time utilization. And due to the early metalworking and distributed skills your dwarves have, soon you'll have powerful steel-armored warrior workers that'll form the bedrock of a city guard.<br />
<br />
Always build a wood burning furnace, Smelter and Metalsmith shop first, and take apart that wagon for extra logs. Either burn those logs into charcoal, or smelt coal into fuel, and then make your tools.<br />
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==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
By dropping both picks and axes you'll be able to afford a lot of useful skills, and you'll be able to get a metalsmithing shop running within the first seconds of your game, so no precious time is lost. Your Dwarves are divided largely into two groups, your laborers (Butcher, Baker and candle--er, Brewer) and your craftsdwarves. Essentially a Blue collar/White collar divide to set up a nice class war later. Also, by having such wide assortments of skills, your dwarves will get lots of attribute bonuses and become extremely capable fighters by the time you need to worry about that.<br />
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Laborers are given mining and growing skills with some extra to cover food production. The Ranger is the oddball, but will spend his early days gathering plants and hauling items, so fits here. Your first order of business with them is to dig that top later out quickly and get some farms started and fully stocked. Then, as they grow, you can go back to digging out the rest of the base.<br />
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* The Baker: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Cooking.<br />
* The Brewer: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Brewing.<br />
* The Butcher: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +1 Butchering, +1 Tanning, +1 Leatherworking. Make some bags for sand and the Quarry Bushes and a butcher's shop before the Ranger starts his hunts.<br />
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* The Ranger: +3 Woodcutter, +3 Carpenter, +1 Herbalist, +1 Ambusher, +2 Axedwarf. Be sure to assign a war dog or two to this guy, since he's the only one who needs to go outside. Once he gets an axe, he'll also be a competent fighter and hunter and will start with armor due to +1 ambusher.<br />
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Craftsdwarves focus on running shops, building trade goods, and making the outpost as profitable as possible in the first year, to attract additional immigrants that can be thrown into the mines or toil in the mushroom fields. They should have very broad skill bases, but the actual choice of leader is up to you.<br />
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* The Smithy: +1 Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Metalsmith, Furnace Operator, Wood Burner, Stone Crafting, Bone Carving. This guy will cover all of your rarely needed creation skills, and make your picks and axes. After this he usually ends up making scads of stone crafts for sale. Glassworking, gem cutting, and potash making are good as well, and even with novice in all areas you'll build fast enough for these rare items.<br />
* The Foreman: +3 Building Design, +3 Mechanic, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper. Building design and mechanical work is extremely quick work, so instead give him nobleman skills to spend the rest of his work hours on. These are extremely useful in the long-term.<br />
* The Freemason: +5 Masonry. It seems a bit silly to give him just one primary skill, but Masons are usually working 24 hours a day on all variety of stone doors, chairs and tables.<br />
<br />
There's a variation if you want a more 'compact' design of those last two:<br />
<br />
* The Construction Worker: +5 Masonry, +3 Mechanic, +2 Building Design.<br />
* The Lazy Boss: +3 Fishing, +3 Fish Cleaning, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper.<br />
<br />
This is not as useful or safe, as Fishing is a time-intensive skill, so it takes him away from his record keeping job for extended periods and a Carp might kill him. It also forces your Mason to get behind on Queues every time someone needs a trap build or a workshop set up. Halting book-keeping doesn't slow down any production, so the original stat-spread can work out better.<br />
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==== Items ====<br />
The only thing you need is your anvil, a few stones and bars of metal, everything else is optional. A point of contention is the Iron Axe you'll be making, as some may prefer it to be steel. Steel Bars cost 150, which is three times the cost of iron, and only provide a small damage bonus and no chopping speed bonus. If you start in an area with [[Limestone]] or [[Chalk]] you'll soon be able to smelt Steel with your functioning metalsmith shop anyway. If you're on a map without trees, well, I suppose you don't need the axe at all. But in that case you'd be better off taking the picks, dropping the anvil, and buying a few hundred logs.<br />
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* 1 [[Anvil]] - this is what makes it all possible, and helps you get started faster.<br />
* 3 [[Copper|Copper bars]] - these cost 10 each, and will be your picks. Three for the price of one, literally.<br />
* 1 [[Iron|Iron bar]] - this costs 50, and will be your axe. The 40 extra is worth it for the damage increase you get over copper or bronze.<br />
* 2 [[Bituminous coal]] or [[Log]]s - you can smelt two coal into 4 fuel for the cost of 2 logs. Inexpensive at 3 each, one can afford to bring more.<br />
* 4 cheap stone - any sort works, such as inexpensive [[granite]]. You'll use these to make your first three buildings.<br />
<br />
That's what you need to get started, but this is a guide for the items on your list. This build does not require or recommend bringing plump helmets due to their cost. Instead, encourage your dwarves to eat the turtles and meat out of the barrels and cook wine biscuits. Your farms will be running amazingly quickly anyway, and for half the cost of a single helmet you can make feed several dwarves on baked beer. You'll get enough seeds from brewing the [[plump helmets]] soon enough.<br />
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* 26 of [[Dwarven wine|Wine]], [[Dwarven rum|Rum]], [[Dwarven beer|Beer]] and [[Dwarven ale|Ale]]<br />
* 36 of [[rock nut]]s, [[Plump helmet spawn]] and [[Pig tail]] [[seeds]]<br />
* 11 [[turtle]]s - these hilarious little dudes are way better than the meat you usually set out with, what with all the bones they leave. I use these as 'before farming' rations and build up a good supply of bone bolts. Shells are also valuable to have around.<br />
* 1 of each other 2 cost meat, for extra empty barrels. Barrels cost 10, so getting any food below that can save you money.<br />
* 2 [[Dogs]] - preferably war dogs or hunting dogs. Assign these to your Ranger. Bring a pair so you can make more dogs.<br />
* 1 [[Horse]] - they're relatively inexpensive and will help you begin breeding horses faster, as you are nearly always getting a horse with your wagon. Livestock are a valuable commodity for meat and bones, and you want as many of these as possible 'emergency rations' on hand.<br />
* 4 [[Leather]] - you need leather bags to process [[quarry bush]]es and to gather sand for glass. Four will be enough, and you can get it for only 20.<br />
<br />
If you do it exactly as written, you will end up with a few points left over. Grab some extra food or upgrade one of your copper bars to an actual copper pick, if you want a faster start. These foodstuffs will last a very long time if managed properly, so get your farms going and start preparing for next year now.<br />
<br />
=== Metalbashing/Glassworking ===<br />
Heavy metalbashing and glassworking requires a site with 1) abundant fuel and 2) raw materials. Magma is ideal but large coal seams or a forest will also suffice. A site with either limestone or chalk means nearly unlimited steel. Any site with "sand" (not "loamy sand" or the like) will permit glassworking. Failing these, any place with lots of rock, trees, and preferably sand will work fine. Your biggest choice when setting up is whether to optimize for a fast start or long-term success.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & Skills ====<br />
Unless you're trying a low-skills challenge, each dwarf should get the maximum possible number (currently 10) of skill boosts; remove a battle axe to free up needed points. Individual preferences can be mighty handy; if you have a dwarf who likes steel, clear glass, crossbows, siege engine parts, or something else equally interesting, he's an ideal candidate for matching skills.<br />
<br />
* A Carpenter/Leader: Points into Carpenter, Wood Cutter, and a bunch of nobles' skills, including at least novice Negotiator and Appraiser. This dwarf should have good inter-personal thoughts/preferences.<br />
* A Mason/Mechanic: Points into Mason, Building Designer, and Mechanic. Adding more points to Mason gets construction materials and furniture faster. More points to Mechanic allows faster trap-setting. Adding Appraiser and/or Negotiator skills gives you a back-up leader or broker. A boost to Wrestling gets you better on-call defense.<br />
* A Farmer/Herbalist (assumes the site has at least some plants): This dwarf will gather the plant material you need to brew drinks. Points into Grower and Herbalist. Leftover skill raises should be invested in a valuable, hard to raise trade skill such as [[Blacksmith]], [[Metal_crafter|Metal Crafter]], or perhaps [[Glassmaker]] or [[Clothier]].<br />
* A Farmer/Brewer/Cook: This dwarf is responsible for keeping your community fed and liquored up. Points into Grower, Brewer, and (optionally) Cook. Leftover skill raises should be invested as for the Farmer/Herbalist.<br />
* A Craftsdwarf: Points into whatever hard-to-raise skills you most want. [[Armorsmith]], [[Weaponsmith]], [[Bowyer]], [[Glassmaker]], and even [[Siege_engineer|Siege Engineer]], [[Clothier]], or [[Gem_setter|Gem Setter]] can all be good choices depending on your setup. If you plan to bash metal, remember to spend a few points on Furnace Operator and (if needed) Wood Burning.<br />
* 2 Miners/Soldiers: Points into both mining and military skills. The miners first get legendary and then become extremely powerful fighters. Remember that it's much easier to increase Mining skill than most of the military skills (especially Armor User), but also that you'll want capable miners immediately.<br />
<br />
With this setup, you have several ways to make the trade goods you'll need to buy what you lack. Metal goblets, stone mugs, handwear, footwear, mechanisms, bone or wood crossbows, prepared meals, or bone and shell crafts are all solid choices.<br />
<br />
Food and drink for the first few seasons are assured by first cooking all the meat to free up barrels, then brewing your plump helmets (and any gathered plants) to make booze.<br />
<br />
==== Items (all starts) ====<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s<br />
* 6 or 11 of each of [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]]. With abundant brewable plants and lots of wood you don't actually need any starting booze, but it's nice to have a backup.<br />
* at least 11 [[plump helmet]]s. Bring a lot more if you anticipate problems with gathering brewable plants.<br />
* at least 6 [[turtle]]s. Not only are they good eating, they ensure you have the [[shell]]s and [[bone]]s needed to satisfy [[strange mood]]s.<br />
* 1 of every kind of meat that costs 2 or 4, as each type of meat will be packed in its own free barrel and cooking the meat will release that barrel for use. If you don't like this feature, bring more turtles or plump helmets instead.<br />
* Unless the map is glacial, or you intend only outdoor agriculture, bring plenty of seeds as well. A minimum of 15 plump helmet spawn are essential for a quick start to underground agriculture; rock nuts, sweet pod seeds, pig tail seeds, and cave wheat seeds will diversify your meals and drinks and let you set up for clothes-making. Seeds are packed in bags.<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
===== Items (fast start) =====<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]] - you'll save points by making it yourself.<br />
* only a few logs (just enough to get started with), unless the map has no trees<br />
<br />
See [[Make Your Own Weapons]] for more details on what to bring and how to make the battle axes you need to chop wood.<br />
<br />
===== Items (moderate start) =====<br />
Warning: Going without an anvil will slow you down until you get one in trade (which normally takes about 6 or 7 seasons) and might even cost you a failed [[strange mood]].<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] (at present, steel is the only option)<br />
* few or no logs, unless the map has no trees<br />
* with the points you save by not bringing an anvil, buy logs, bars of base metals you expect your site to lack, and (if needed) coal (for fuel and coke) and/or dolomite (for flux).<br />
<br />
===== Items (slow start) =====<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]]s<br />
* lots of logs - at least 25 on a heavily forested map. You can survive without them, but it's a lot cheaper to buy logs to make barrels than to bring more drink.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Free Equipment ===<br />
<br />
Dwarves who start with the ambusher skill get some leather armor, a crossbow and some bolts for free. <br />
<br />
<br />
=== Challenge Builds ===<br />
If you want a challenge try some [[Challenge_Builds]].<br />
<br />
{{Starting FAQ}}</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Starting_builds&diff=951440d:Starting builds2008-02-19T21:45:10Z<p>Samyotix: /* Starting Builds */</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Starting builds''' are different strategies that you can choose when starting a new game in [[fortress mode]]. The skills and items which you assign to your dwarves will have a large impact on life in your new fortress' development, especially in its first year.<br />
<br />
This page gives advice on some of the many gameplay elements which influence the flow of your game based on your goals. These include: choosing a ''fortress site'', the ''starting build'' itself - defined by who and what to take with you - as well as ''challenge builds'' aimed at providing new or unusual challenges to advanced players.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Fortress Site ==<br />
Each fortress site offers particular challenges and opportunities. The starting builds below can and should be adjusted depending on the specific vision you have of your fortress ... and what it will take to stay [[losing|alive]] where you're going!<br />
<br />
=== Mountains ===<br />
Most dwarven fortresses are founded along the edges of mountain ranges on sites that combine abundant ore and access to the outside world. Magma and rare metals lure settlers here, but [[goblins]], [[chasm]] dwellers, and even [[giant eagle]]s are potent threats.<br />
<br />
Trees and plants do not grow at high elevations, so you'll want to include non-mountainous areas to obtain lumber and food - or, failing this, to pack a lot of extra food and logs.<br />
<br />
Other consideration is elevation range. The game allows access up to 15 levels above the highest peak and 15 levels below the deepest valley, so steeper slopes means much more diggable area. The downside is lag; more levels also means more CPU burden (this can cripple a fortress - be careful).<br />
<br />
Be sure to include a stream on the map; running water is (almost) essential for any fortress. In Cold and Freezing climates streams and lakes will often be frozen year-round and your dwarves may quickly die of exposure. Choose Temperate or tropical zones for an easier game.<br />
<br />
=== Wooded Plains (with trees and plants) ===<br />
Flatlands with at least some trees and gatherable plants can also make for highly successful fortresses. <br />
<br />
Advantages over mountain zones include abundant trees and plants, guaranteed agriculture both on the surface and underground, fewer hostile fortresses and caves, and (unless frozen) more abundant water. There are even (rare) magma vents.<br />
<br />
The greatest disadvantage is lack of rock to mine. Fewer elevations means fewer exploitable z-levels. The first few levels below the surface are almost always soil, peat, loam, clay, or sand, none of which offers much (or any) gems, ore, or building material. An [[aquifer]], if present, may bar all access to stone until you freeze, pump out, or find a way through the water.<br />
<br />
=== Desert, Glaciers, and Barren (few or no trees and plants) ===<br />
Treeless (or near-treeless) biomes are challenging sites for a fortress: you get most of the disadvantages of a flatland site without having access to nearly as many trees and plants. However, near-lifeless zones such as glaciers are wonderful for those with slower machines, as there's little to burden the CPU but your dwarves and livestock. Deserts and barren areas often have sand; with a sufficient source of energy (preferably magma), you can build almost anything out of unlimited glass.<br />
<br />
=== Ocean Side ===<br />
An interesting combination of a few of the above locations, beaches are often a mix of ease intermingled with bouts of extreme difficulty. Minerals and trees are often abundant, as well as farmland and sand, but there is often no drinking water unless the biome has a river.<br />
There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales.<br />
<br />
== Starting Builds ==<br />
<br />
=== Skills ===<br />
<br />
Each dwarf can learn any of a large number of [[skills]]. <br />
<br />
* Dwarves with little experience in a skill will work slowly and ineffectively.<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced [[farming|farmers]] and [[herbalist|herbalists], for example, will crush many plants and only sometimes harvest one or two items. This results in a small overall harvest which takes many [[container#container|containers]] to store in, less effective food preparation in the kitchen, and more space needed for [[stockpiles]].<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced [[Miner|miners]] work very slowly. Mining can be levelled up quite quickly by mining [[soil#soil|soil]], but taking two dwarves with at least some points in mining is recommended in many cases.<br />
<br />
* Dwarves improve their skills on a learning-by-doing-basis. Dwarves who have specific labors enabled will, after a while, progress to Dabbling users of their skill, and continue to learn from performing that labor.<br />
<br />
* Inexperienced dwarves who create items in nearly all [[workshops#workshops|workshops]] will create low [[quality#quality|quality]] goods, and take a long time doing so. Skilled dwarves work quickly and produce high-quality items.<br />
<br />
* [[Quality]] is a central concept in the game - it affects [[food]] and [[alcohol]], almost anything you will have your dwarves create in the game: [[trading]] goods, [[barrel|barrels]], [[clothing]], [[armor]], [[furniture]], [[weapons]], and so on. Quality also very much affects the worth of an item while [[trading]].<br />
<br />
Overall, 'Levelling up' the dwarves' skills quickly is a good game goal to set. Doing so [[losing|may]] result your dwarves efficiently creating a magnificent fortress filled to the brim with valuable items and furniture.<br />
<br />
Using and seeing high-quality items gives dwarves happy [[thoughts]]. This tends to increase a fortress' [[tantrum|longevity]].<br />
<br />
=== Combining Skills ===<br />
Some [[skills]] are highly time-consuming, and working at different jobs levels up specific [[attribute]]s. One could level up a miner until hes becomes mighty and ultra-tough - and then turn him into a soldier. If you plan on doing so, it may not be a good idea to give this guy another critical job such as Trader and Record Keeper, but maybe military skills depending on how soon you intend to have [[soldier]]s.<br />
<br />
Since tasks will take place in specific areas, it makes sense to combine tasks into dwarves who will take care of a specific industry - so Combine (indoor) farming with cooking (not mining), for example.<br />
<br />
Most builds recommend combinations such as:<br />
<br />
* Woodcutter/Carpenter. Spends most of the summer out in the woods, and winter indoors turning them into beds.<br />
* Mason. Apparently, in most many fortresses, the Mason is a very busy man indeed.<br />
* Farmer/Cook, Farmer/Brewer. Basic two-person food team.<br />
* Farmer/Herbalist, Farmer/Brewer/Cook. One bold dwarf to farm and venture outside looking for wild plants, the other to keep busy in the still, kitchen, and indoor farms.<br />
* Noble/Boss: Novice [[Judge of intent]]/Novice [[Appraiser]]/Novice [[Organizer]]/Novice [[Record keeper]]. Combine this with a single time-intensive task such as Masonry or Mining, and optionally turn off all hauling tasks right at the start of the game. This results in an all-around Boss and Trader (who can usually be coerced into going to the trade depot and hold meetings just by turning the main profession off).<br />
* Craftsdwarf, depending on your strategy - e.g. [[glass]] maker, weapon smith or armor smith, sometiomes combined with related tasks from that industry (furnace operating, wood burning). Typically an item hauler in the initial months of your fortress, this dwarf may become one of your most valuable dwarves later.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Items ===<br />
<br />
Some basics are recommended for all builds. You definitely need to bring one [[pick]] for each [[miner]], some [[food]], and some [[alcohol]]. Everything else depends on your strategy and on how tough or leisurely a challenge you want the game to be.<br />
<br />
Note: Many of the quantities suggested end in a "1" or a "6". This is to maximize the number of [[barrels]] you start with, since most foodstuffs fit five to a barrel. More barrels will let you build a larger stockpile for your first winter and conserves the [[wood]] you harvest in the early game for beds and other necessities.<br />
<br />
<br />
* Your First Fortress?<br />
<br />
Note: If you are a new player, you may be looking for a build as a solid basis for surviving the first couple of months or years (including advice on what to actually do (building stuff, for example). Check out [[Your_first_fortress|this guide]] which also includes a basic starting build similar to the one discussed below.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Basic Build ==<br />
<br />
The first order of business is simply to survive. Here is a simple, somewhat paranoid, way to do this.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
On most (but not all) sites, you'll want to get food, brew drink, mine, make wood and stone items, and trade. Whatever additional skills you purchase, be sure to cover these. If you need more points to buy skills (and it's a good idea to buy lots of skills), remove a battle axe.<br />
<br />
* 2 miners<br />
* 1 mason/mechanic<br />
* 1 carpenter/woodcutter<br />
* 1 grower/brewer/cook. He's responsible for making prepared meals and drinks.<br />
* either a herbalist/grower, or a fisherdwarf, or a hunter. The first gets you lots of brewable plants on maps with plants, the second gets you food and bones on maps with water (in maps with dangerous fish such as [[carp]] fishing is suicidal so be careful), and the third gets you meat and bones on maps with animals. Herbalism is usually the safest of the three.<br />
* 1 spare dwarf. You might make him the leader and broker; if so, give him at least novice [[appraiser]] skill so you know what stuff is worth. You might make him responsible for making trade goods, or turn him into your first soldier, or you might just give him some skills you want to experiment with.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
You want picks, food, and drink. Everything else is optional. The suggestions below assume you spent the maximum possible on skills. We'll pack lots just to be safe.<br />
<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s - 1 per miner<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] - so you can chop wood<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - so you can make weapons, trade crafts, and such<br />
* 20 units of drink: [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]] are all good. [[dwarven wine]] you'll get through brewing.<br />
* 30 [[plump helmets]] - They're good to eat and produce 5 units of booze for each one brewed at a [[still]].<br />
* 5 turtles - they get you bones and shells<br />
* 20 [[plump helmet spawn]] - for planting.<br />
* 2 dogs - to guard against thieves and help kill intruders.<br />
* (optional) other kinds of seeds and rock nuts<br />
* (optional) 1 of many different kinds of meats for extra barrels<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
If the map is treeless, remove the battle axe and spend the freed points on more plump helmets and logs (you're going to run out however many you bring...).<br />
<br />
If you're willing to wait a year or two to do any metalworking and you're sure traders will come, remove the anvil and spend the freed points on such things as skills, food and drink, wood, leather, raw materials, or weapons.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== '''Rapid Expansion''' ===<br />
A plan for quick growth followed up by heavy immigration works well both as an early game strategy and as an assist for a late game foundation. Starting off with the anvil is also much less troublesome if you drop both battleaxes and make your own picks too. Don't worry though, you'll be digging out cavernous villas in no time, and cheaply too, with this build. Food and stone will be in abundance and you'll have excellent worker time utilization. And due to the early metalworking and distributed skills your dwarves have, soon you'll have powerful steel-armored warrior workers that'll form the bedrock of a city guard.<br />
<br />
Always build a wood burning furnace, Smelter and Metalsmith shop first, and take apart that wagon for extra logs. Either burn those logs into charcoal, or smelt coal into fuel, and then make your tools.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
By dropping both picks and axes you'll be able to afford a lot of useful skills, and you'll be able to get a metalsmithing shop running within the first seconds of your game, so no precious time is lost. Your Dwarves are divided largely into two groups, your laborers (Butcher, Baker and candle--er, Brewer) and your craftsdwarves. Essentially a Blue collar/White collar divide to set up a nice class war later. Also, by having such wide assortments of skills, your dwarves will get lots of attribute bonuses and become extremely capable fighters by the time you need to worry about that.<br />
<br />
Laborers are given mining and growing skills with some extra to cover food production. The Ranger is the oddball, but will spend his early days gathering plants and hauling items, so fits here. Your first order of business with them is to dig that top later out quickly and get some farms started and fully stocked. Then, as they grow, you can go back to digging out the rest of the base.<br />
<br />
* The Baker: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Cooking.<br />
* The Brewer: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Brewing.<br />
* The Butcher: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +1 Butchering, +1 Tanning, +1 Leatherworking. Make some bags for sand and the Quarry Bushes and a butcher's shop before the Ranger starts his hunts.<br />
<br />
* The Ranger: +3 Woodcutter, +3 Carpenter, +1 Herbalist, +1 Ambusher, +2 Axedwarf. Be sure to assign a war dog or two to this guy, since he's the only one who needs to go outside. Once he gets an axe, he'll also be a competent fighter and hunter and will start with armor due to +1 ambusher.<br />
<br />
Craftsdwarves focus on running shops, building trade goods, and making the outpost as profitable as possible in the first year, to attract additional immigrants that can be thrown into the mines or toil in the mushroom fields. They should have very broad skill bases, but the actual choice of leader is up to you.<br />
<br />
* The Smithy: +1 Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Metalsmith, Furnace Operator, Wood Burner, Stone Crafting, Bone Carving. This guy will cover all of your rarely needed creation skills, and make your picks and axes. After this he usually ends up making scads of stone crafts for sale. Glassworking, gem cutting, and potash making are good as well, and even with novice in all areas you'll build fast enough for these rare items.<br />
* The Foreman: +3 Building Design, +3 Mechanic, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper. Building design and mechanical work is extremely quick work, so instead give him nobleman skills to spend the rest of his work hours on. These are extremely useful in the long-term.<br />
* The Freemason: +5 Masonry. It seems a bit silly to give him just one primary skill, but Masons are usually working 24 hours a day on all variety of stone doors, chairs and tables.<br />
<br />
There's a variation if you want a more 'compact' design of those last two:<br />
<br />
* The Construction Worker: +5 Masonry, +3 Mechanic, +2 Building Design.<br />
* The Lazy Boss: +3 Fishing, +3 Fish Cleaning, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper.<br />
<br />
This is not as useful or safe, as Fishing is a time-intensive skill, so it takes him away from his record keeping job for extended periods and a Carp might kill him. It also forces your Mason to get behind on Queues every time someone needs a trap build or a workshop set up. Halting book-keeping doesn't slow down any production, so the original stat-spread can work out better.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
The only thing you need is your anvil, a few stones and bars of metal, everything else is optional. A point of contention is the Iron Axe you'll be making, as some may prefer it to be steel. Steel Bars cost 150, which is three times the cost of iron, and only provide a small damage bonus and no chopping speed bonus. If you start in an area with [[Limestone]] or [[Chalk]] you'll soon be able to smelt Steel with your functioning metalsmith shop anyway. If you're on a map without trees, well, I suppose you don't need the axe at all. But in that case you'd be better off taking the picks, dropping the anvil, and buying a few hundred logs.<br />
<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - this is what makes it all possible, and helps you get started faster.<br />
* 3 [[Copper|Copper bars]] - these cost 10 each, and will be your picks. Three for the price of one, literally.<br />
* 1 [[Iron|Iron bar]] - this costs 50, and will be your axe. The 40 extra is worth it for the damage increase you get over copper or bronze.<br />
* 2 [[Bituminous coal]] or [[Log]]s - you can smelt two coal into 4 fuel for the cost of 2 logs. Inexpensive at 3 each, one can afford to bring more.<br />
* 4 cheap stone - any sort works, such as inexpensive [[granite]]. You'll use these to make your first three buildings.<br />
<br />
That's what you need to get started, but this is a guide for the items on your list. This build does not require or recommend bringing plump helmets due to their cost. Instead, encourage your dwarves to eat the turtles and meat out of the barrels and cook wine biscuits. Your farms will be running amazingly quickly anyway, and for half the cost of a single helmet you can make feed several dwarves on baked beer. You'll get enough seeds from brewing the [[plump helmets]] soon enough.<br />
<br />
* 26 of [[Dwarven wine|Wine]], [[Dwarven rum|Rum]], [[Dwarven beer|Beer]] and [[Dwarven ale|Ale]]<br />
* 36 of [[rock nut]]s, [[Plump helmet spawn]] and [[Pig tail]] [[seeds]]<br />
* 11 [[turtle]]s - these hilarious little dudes are way better than the meat you usually set out with, what with all the bones they leave. I use these as 'before farming' rations and build up a good supply of bone bolts. Shells are also valuable to have around.<br />
* 1 of each other 2 cost meat, for extra empty barrels. Barrels cost 10, so getting any food below that can save you money.<br />
* 2 [[Dogs]] - preferably war dogs or hunting dogs. Assign these to your Ranger. Bring a pair so you can make more dogs.<br />
* 1 [[Horse]] - they're relatively inexpensive and will help you begin breeding horses faster, as you are nearly always getting a horse with your wagon. Livestock are a valuable commodity for meat and bones, and you want as many of these as possible 'emergency rations' on hand.<br />
* 4 [[Leather]] - you need leather bags to process [[quarry bush]]es and to gather sand for glass. Four will be enough, and you can get it for only 20.<br />
<br />
If you do it exactly as written, you will end up with a few points left over. Grab some extra food or upgrade one of your copper bars to an actual copper pick, if you want a faster start. These foodstuffs will last a very long time if managed properly, so get your farms going and start preparing for next year now.<br />
<br />
=== Metalbashing/Glassworking ===<br />
Heavy metalbashing and glassworking requires a site with 1) abundant fuel and 2) raw materials. Magma is ideal but large coal seams or a forest will also suffice. A site with either limestone or chalk means nearly unlimited steel. Any site with "sand" (not "loamy sand" or the like) will permit glassworking. Failing these, any place with lots of rock, trees, and preferably sand will work fine. Your biggest choice when setting up is whether to optimize for a fast start or long-term success.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & Skills ====<br />
Unless you're trying a low-skills challenge, each dwarf should get the maximum possible number (currently 10) of skill boosts; remove a battle axe to free up needed points. Individual preferences can be mighty handy; if you have a dwarf who likes steel, clear glass, crossbows, siege engine parts, or something else equally interesting, he's an ideal candidate for matching skills.<br />
<br />
* A Carpenter/Leader: Points into Carpenter, Wood Cutter, and a bunch of nobles' skills, including at least novice Negotiator and Appraiser. This dwarf should have good inter-personal thoughts/preferences.<br />
* A Mason/Mechanic: Points into Mason, Building Designer, and Mechanic. Adding more points to Mason gets construction materials and furniture faster. More points to Mechanic allows faster trap-setting. Adding Appraiser and/or Negotiator skills gives you a back-up leader or broker. A boost to Wrestling gets you better on-call defense.<br />
* A Farmer/Herbalist (assumes the site has at least some plants): This dwarf will gather the plant material you need to brew drinks. Points into Grower and Herbalist. Leftover skill raises should be invested in a valuable, hard to raise trade skill such as [[Blacksmith]], [[Metal_crafter|Metal Crafter]], or perhaps [[Glassmaker]] or [[Clothier]].<br />
* A Farmer/Brewer/Cook: This dwarf is responsible for keeping your community fed and liquored up. Points into Grower, Brewer, and (optionally) Cook. Leftover skill raises should be invested as for the Farmer/Herbalist.<br />
* A Craftsdwarf: Points into whatever hard-to-raise skills you most want. [[Armorsmith]], [[Weaponsmith]], [[Bowyer]], [[Glassmaker]], and even [[Siege_engineer|Siege Engineer]], [[Clothier]], or [[Gem_setter|Gem Setter]] can all be good choices depending on your setup. If you plan to bash metal, remember to spend a few points on Furnace Operator and (if needed) Wood Burning.<br />
* 2 Miners/Soldiers: Points into both mining and military skills. The miners first get legendary and then become extremely powerful fighters. Remember that it's much easier to increase Mining skill than most of the military skills (especially Armor User), but also that you'll want capable miners immediately.<br />
<br />
With this setup, you have several ways to make the trade goods you'll need to buy what you lack. Metal goblets, stone mugs, handwear, footwear, mechanisms, bone or wood crossbows, prepared meals, or bone and shell crafts are all solid choices.<br />
<br />
Food and drink for the first few seasons are assured by first cooking all the meat to free up barrels, then brewing your plump helmets (and any gathered plants) to make booze.<br />
<br />
==== Items (all starts) ====<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s<br />
* 6 or 11 of each of [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]]. With abundant brewable plants and lots of wood you don't actually need any starting booze, but it's nice to have a backup.<br />
* at least 11 [[plump helmet]]s. Bring a lot more if you anticipate problems with gathering brewable plants.<br />
* at least 6 [[turtle]]s. Not only are they good eating, they ensure you have the [[shell]]s and [[bone]]s needed to satisfy [[strange mood]]s.<br />
* 1 of every kind of meat that costs 2 or 4, as each type of meat will be packed in its own free barrel and cooking the meat will release that barrel for use. If you don't like this feature, bring more turtles or plump helmets instead.<br />
* Unless the map is glacial, or you intend only outdoor agriculture, bring plenty of seeds as well. A minimum of 15 plump helmet spawn are essential for a quick start to underground agriculture; rock nuts, sweet pod seeds, pig tail seeds, and cave wheat seeds will diversify your meals and drinks and let you set up for clothes-making. Seeds are packed in bags.<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
===== Items (fast start) =====<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]] - you'll save points by making it yourself.<br />
* only a few logs (just enough to get started with), unless the map has no trees<br />
<br />
See [[Make Your Own Weapons]] for more details on what to bring and how to make the battle axes you need to chop wood.<br />
<br />
===== Items (moderate start) =====<br />
Warning: Going without an anvil will slow you down until you get one in trade (which normally takes about 6 or 7 seasons) and might even cost you a failed [[strange mood]].<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] (at present, steel is the only option)<br />
* few or no logs, unless the map has no trees<br />
* with the points you save by not bringing an anvil, buy logs, bars of base metals you expect your site to lack, and (if needed) coal (for fuel and coke) and/or dolomite (for flux).<br />
<br />
===== Items (slow start) =====<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]]s<br />
* lots of logs - at least 25 on a heavily forested map. You can survive without them, but it's a lot cheaper to buy logs to make barrels than to bring more drink.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Free Equipment ===<br />
<br />
Dwarves who start with the ambusher skill get some leather armor, a crossbow and some bolts for free. <br />
<br />
<br />
=== Challenge Builds ===<br />
If you want a challenge try some [[Challenge_Builds]].<br />
<br />
{{Starting FAQ}}</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Starting_builds&diff=951340d:Starting builds2008-02-19T20:44:17Z<p>Samyotix: /* Fortress Site */</p>
<hr />
<div>'''Starting builds''' are different strategies that you can choose when starting a new game in [[fortress mode]]. The skills and items which you assign to your dwarves will have a large impact on life in your new fortress' development, especially in its first year.<br />
<br />
This page gives advice on some of the many gameplay elements which influence the flow of your game based on your goals. These include: choosing a ''fortress site'', the ''starting build'' itself - defined by who and what to take with you - as well as ''challenge builds'' aimed at providing new or unusual challenges to advanced players.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Fortress Site ==<br />
Each fortress site offers particular challenges and opportunities. The starting builds below can and should be adjusted depending on the specific vision you have of your fortress ... and what it will take to stay [[losing|alive]] where you're going!<br />
<br />
=== Mountains ===<br />
Most dwarven fortresses are founded along the edges of mountain ranges on sites that combine abundant ore and access to the outside world. Magma and rare metals lure settlers here, but [[goblins]], [[chasm]] dwellers, and even [[giant eagle]]s are potent threats.<br />
<br />
Trees and plants do not grow at high elevations, so you'll want to include non-mountainous areas to obtain lumber and food - or, failing this, to pack a lot of extra food and logs.<br />
<br />
Other consideration is elevation range. The game allows access up to 15 levels above the highest peak and 15 levels below the deepest valley, so steeper slopes means much more diggable area. The downside is lag; more levels also means more CPU burden (this can cripple a fortress - be careful).<br />
<br />
Be sure to include a stream on the map; running water is (almost) essential for any fortress. In Cold and Freezing climates streams and lakes will often be frozen year-round and your dwarves may quickly die of exposure. Choose Temperate or tropical zones for an easier game.<br />
<br />
=== Wooded Plains (with trees and plants) ===<br />
Flatlands with at least some trees and gatherable plants can also make for highly successful fortresses. <br />
<br />
Advantages over mountain zones include abundant trees and plants, guaranteed agriculture both on the surface and underground, fewer hostile fortresses and caves, and (unless frozen) more abundant water. There are even (rare) magma vents.<br />
<br />
The greatest disadvantage is lack of rock to mine. Fewer elevations means fewer exploitable z-levels. The first few levels below the surface are almost always soil, peat, loam, clay, or sand, none of which offers much (or any) gems, ore, or building material. An [[aquifer]], if present, may bar all access to stone until you freeze, pump out, or find a way through the water.<br />
<br />
=== Desert, Glaciers, and Barren (few or no trees and plants) ===<br />
Treeless (or near-treeless) biomes are challenging sites for a fortress: you get most of the disadvantages of a flatland site without having access to nearly as many trees and plants. However, near-lifeless zones such as glaciers are wonderful for those with slower machines, as there's little to burden the CPU but your dwarves and livestock. Deserts and barren areas often have sand; with a sufficient source of energy (preferably magma), you can build almost anything out of unlimited glass.<br />
<br />
=== Ocean Side ===<br />
An interesting combination of a few of the above locations, beaches are often a mix of ease intermingled with bouts of extreme difficulty. Minerals and trees are often abundant, as well as farmland and sand, but there is often no drinking water unless the biome has a river.<br />
There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales.<br />
<br />
== Starting Builds ==<br />
Many of the quantities suggested end in a "1" or a "6"; this is to maximize the number of [[barrels]] you start with, since most foodstuffs fit five to a barrel. More barrels will let you build a larger stockpile for your first winter and conserves the [[wood]] you harvest in the early game for beds and other necessities.<br />
<br />
=== Basic ===<br />
The first order of business is simply to survive. Here is a simple, somewhat paranoid, way to do this.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
On most (but not all) sites, you'll want to get food, brew drink, mine, make wood and stone items, and trade. Whatever additional skills you purchase, be sure to cover these. If you need more points to buy skills (and it's a good idea to buy lots of skills), remove a battle axe.<br />
<br />
* 2 miners<br />
* 1 mason/mechanic<br />
* 1 carpenter/woodcutter<br />
* 1 grower/brewer/cook. He's responsible for making prepared meals and drinks.<br />
* either a herbalist/grower, or a fisherdwarf, or a hunter. The first gets you lots of brewable plants on maps with plants, the second gets you food and bones on maps with water (in maps with dangerous fish such as [[carp]] fishing is suicidal so be careful), and the third gets you meat and bones on maps with animals. Herbalism is usually the safest of the three.<br />
* 1 spare dwarf. You might make him the leader and broker; if so, give him at least novice [[appraiser]] skill so you know what stuff is worth. You might make him responsible for making trade goods, or turn him into your first soldier, or you might just give him some skills you want to experiment with.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
You want picks, food, and drink. Everything else is optional. The suggestions below assume you spent the maximum possible on skills. We'll pack lots just to be safe.<br />
<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s - 1 per miner<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] - so you can chop wood<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - so you can make weapons, trade crafts, and such<br />
* 20 units of drink: [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]] are all good. [[dwarven wine]] you'll get through brewing.<br />
* 30 [[plump helmets]] - They're good to eat and produce 5 units of booze for each one brewed at a [[still]].<br />
* 5 turtles - they get you bones and shells<br />
* 20 [[plump helmet spawn]] - for planting.<br />
* 2 dogs - to guard against thieves and help kill intruders.<br />
* (optional) other kinds of seeds and rock nuts<br />
* (optional) 1 of many different kinds of meats for extra barrels<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
If the map is treeless, remove the battle axe and spend the freed points on more plump helmets and logs (you're going to run out however many you bring...).<br />
<br />
If you're willing to wait a year or two to do any metalworking and you're sure traders will come, remove the anvil and spend the freed points on such things as skills, food and drink, wood, leather, raw materials, or weapons.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== '''Rapid Expansion''' ===<br />
A plan for quick growth followed up by heavy immigration works well both as an early game strategy and as an assist for a late game foundation. Starting off with the anvil is also much less troublesome if you drop both battleaxes and make your own picks too. Don't worry though, you'll be digging out cavernous villas in no time, and cheaply too, with this build. Food and stone will be in abundance and you'll have excellent worker time utilization. And due to the early metalworking and distributed skills your dwarves have, soon you'll have powerful steel-armored warrior workers that'll form the bedrock of a city guard.<br />
<br />
Always build a wood burning furnace, Smelter and Metalsmith shop first, and take apart that wagon for extra logs. Either burn those logs into charcoal, or smelt coal into fuel, and then make your tools.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
By dropping both picks and axes you'll be able to afford a lot of useful skills, and you'll be able to get a metalsmithing shop running within the first seconds of your game, so no precious time is lost. Your Dwarves are divided largely into two groups, your laborers (Butcher, Baker and candle--er, Brewer) and your craftsdwarves. Essentially a Blue collar/White collar divide to set up a nice class war later. Also, by having such wide assortments of skills, your dwarves will get lots of attribute bonuses and become extremely capable fighters by the time you need to worry about that.<br />
<br />
Laborers are given mining and growing skills with some extra to cover food production. The Ranger is the oddball, but will spend his early days gathering plants and hauling items, so fits here. Your first order of business with them is to dig that top later out quickly and get some farms started and fully stocked. Then, as they grow, you can go back to digging out the rest of the base.<br />
<br />
* The Baker: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Cooking.<br />
* The Brewer: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Brewing.<br />
* The Butcher: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +1 Butchering, +1 Tanning, +1 Leatherworking. Make some bags for sand and the Quarry Bushes and a butcher's shop before the Ranger starts his hunts.<br />
<br />
* The Ranger: +3 Woodcutter, +3 Carpenter, +1 Herbalist, +1 Ambusher, +2 Axedwarf. Be sure to assign a war dog or two to this guy, since he's the only one who needs to go outside. Once he gets an axe, he'll also be a competent fighter and hunter and will start with armor due to +1 ambusher.<br />
<br />
Craftsdwarves focus on running shops, building trade goods, and making the outpost as profitable as possible in the first year, to attract additional immigrants that can be thrown into the mines or toil in the mushroom fields. They should have very broad skill bases, but the actual choice of leader is up to you.<br />
<br />
* The Smithy: +1 Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Metalsmith, Furnace Operator, Wood Burner, Stone Crafting, Bone Carving. This guy will cover all of your rarely needed creation skills, and make your picks and axes. After this he usually ends up making scads of stone crafts for sale. Glassworking, gem cutting, and potash making are good as well, and even with novice in all areas you'll build fast enough for these rare items.<br />
* The Foreman: +3 Building Design, +3 Mechanic, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper. Building design and mechanical work is extremely quick work, so instead give him nobleman skills to spend the rest of his work hours on. These are extremely useful in the long-term.<br />
* The Freemason: +5 Masonry. It seems a bit silly to give him just one primary skill, but Masons are usually working 24 hours a day on all variety of stone doors, chairs and tables.<br />
<br />
There's a variation if you want a more 'compact' design of those last two:<br />
<br />
* The Construction Worker: +5 Masonry, +3 Mechanic, +2 Building Design.<br />
* The Lazy Boss: +3 Fishing, +3 Fish Cleaning, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper.<br />
<br />
This is not as useful or safe, as Fishing is a time-intensive skill, so it takes him away from his record keeping job for extended periods and a Carp might kill him. It also forces your Mason to get behind on Queues every time someone needs a trap build or a workshop set up. Halting book-keeping doesn't slow down any production, so the original stat-spread can work out better.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
The only thing you need is your anvil, a few stones and bars of metal, everything else is optional. A point of contention is the Iron Axe you'll be making, as some may prefer it to be steel. Steel Bars cost 150, which is three times the cost of iron, and only provide a small damage bonus and no chopping speed bonus. If you start in an area with [[Limestone]] or [[Chalk]] you'll soon be able to smelt Steel with your functioning metalsmith shop anyway. If you're on a map without trees, well, I suppose you don't need the axe at all. But in that case you'd be better off taking the picks, dropping the anvil, and buying a few hundred logs.<br />
<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - this is what makes it all possible, and helps you get started faster.<br />
* 3 [[Copper|Copper bars]] - these cost 10 each, and will be your picks. Three for the price of one, literally.<br />
* 1 [[Iron|Iron bar]] - this costs 50, and will be your axe. The 40 extra is worth it for the damage increase you get over copper or bronze.<br />
* 2 [[Bituminous coal]] or [[Log]]s - you can smelt two coal into 4 fuel for the cost of 2 logs. Inexpensive at 3 each, one can afford to bring more.<br />
* 4 cheap stone - any sort works, such as inexpensive [[granite]]. You'll use these to make your first three buildings.<br />
<br />
That's what you need to get started, but this is a guide for the items on your list. This build does not require or recommend bringing plump helmets due to their cost. Instead, encourage your dwarves to eat the turtles and meat out of the barrels and cook wine biscuits. Your farms will be running amazingly quickly anyway, and for half the cost of a single helmet you can make feed several dwarves on baked beer. You'll get enough seeds from brewing the [[plump helmets]] soon enough.<br />
<br />
* 26 of [[Dwarven wine|Wine]], [[Dwarven rum|Rum]], [[Dwarven beer|Beer]] and [[Dwarven ale|Ale]]<br />
* 36 of [[rock nut]]s, [[Plump helmet spawn]] and [[Pig tail]] [[seeds]]<br />
* 11 [[turtle]]s - these hilarious little dudes are way better than the meat you usually set out with, what with all the bones they leave. I use these as 'before farming' rations and build up a good supply of bone bolts. Shells are also valuable to have around.<br />
* 1 of each other 2 cost meat, for extra empty barrels. Barrels cost 10, so getting any food below that can save you money.<br />
* 2 [[Dogs]] - preferably war dogs or hunting dogs. Assign these to your Ranger. Bring a pair so you can make more dogs.<br />
* 1 [[Horse]] - they're relatively inexpensive and will help you begin breeding horses faster, as you are nearly always getting a horse with your wagon. Livestock are a valuable commodity for meat and bones, and you want as many of these as possible 'emergency rations' on hand.<br />
* 4 [[Leather]] - you need leather bags to process [[quarry bush]]es and to gather sand for glass. Four will be enough, and you can get it for only 20.<br />
<br />
If you do it exactly as written, you will end up with a few points left over. Grab some extra food or upgrade one of your copper bars to an actual copper pick, if you want a faster start. These foodstuffs will last a very long time if managed properly, so get your farms going and start preparing for next year now.<br />
<br />
=== Metalbashing/Glassworking ===<br />
Heavy metalbashing and glassworking requires a site with 1) abundant fuel and 2) raw materials. Magma is ideal but large coal seams or a forest will also suffice. A site with either limestone or chalk means nearly unlimited steel. Any site with "sand" (not "loamy sand" or the like) will permit glassworking. Failing these, any place with lots of rock, trees, and preferably sand will work fine. Your biggest choice when setting up is whether to optimize for a fast start or long-term success.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & Skills ====<br />
Unless you're trying a low-skills challenge, each dwarf should get the maximum possible number (currently 10) of skill boosts; remove a battle axe to free up needed points. Individual preferences can be mighty handy; if you have a dwarf who likes steel, clear glass, crossbows, siege engine parts, or something else equally interesting, he's an ideal candidate for matching skills.<br />
<br />
* A Carpenter/Leader: Points into Carpenter, Wood Cutter, and a bunch of nobles' skills, including at least novice Negotiator and Appraiser. This dwarf should have good inter-personal thoughts/preferences.<br />
* A Mason/Mechanic: Points into Mason, Building Designer, and Mechanic. Adding more points to Mason gets construction materials and furniture faster. More points to Mechanic allows faster trap-setting. Adding Appraiser and/or Negotiator skills gives you a back-up leader or broker. A boost to Wrestling gets you better on-call defense.<br />
* A Farmer/Herbalist (assumes the site has at least some plants): This dwarf will gather the plant material you need to brew drinks. Points into Grower and Herbalist. Leftover skill raises should be invested in a valuable, hard to raise trade skill such as [[Blacksmith]], [[Metal_crafter|Metal Crafter]], or perhaps [[Glassmaker]] or [[Clothier]].<br />
* A Farmer/Brewer/Cook: This dwarf is responsible for keeping your community fed and liquored up. Points into Grower, Brewer, and (optionally) Cook. Leftover skill raises should be invested as for the Farmer/Herbalist.<br />
* A Craftsdwarf: Points into whatever hard-to-raise skills you most want. [[Armorsmith]], [[Weaponsmith]], [[Bowyer]], [[Glassmaker]], and even [[Siege_engineer|Siege Engineer]], [[Clothier]], or [[Gem_setter|Gem Setter]] can all be good choices depending on your setup. If you plan to bash metal, remember to spend a few points on Furnace Operator and (if needed) Wood Burning.<br />
* 2 Miners/Soldiers: Points into both mining and military skills. The miners first get legendary and then become extremely powerful fighters. Remember that it's much easier to increase Mining skill than most of the military skills (especially Armor User), but also that you'll want capable miners immediately.<br />
<br />
With this setup, you have several ways to make the trade goods you'll need to buy what you lack. Metal goblets, stone mugs, handwear, footwear, mechanisms, bone or wood crossbows, prepared meals, or bone and shell crafts are all solid choices.<br />
<br />
Food and drink for the first few seasons are assured by first cooking all the meat to free up barrels, then brewing your plump helmets (and any gathered plants) to make booze.<br />
<br />
==== Items (all starts) ====<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s<br />
* 6 or 11 of each of [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]]. With abundant brewable plants and lots of wood you don't actually need any starting booze, but it's nice to have a backup.<br />
* at least 11 [[plump helmet]]s. Bring a lot more if you anticipate problems with gathering brewable plants.<br />
* at least 6 [[turtle]]s. Not only are they good eating, they ensure you have the [[shell]]s and [[bone]]s needed to satisfy [[strange mood]]s.<br />
* 1 of every kind of meat that costs 2 or 4, as each type of meat will be packed in its own free barrel and cooking the meat will release that barrel for use. If you don't like this feature, bring more turtles or plump helmets instead.<br />
* Unless the map is glacial, or you intend only outdoor agriculture, bring plenty of seeds as well. A minimum of 15 plump helmet spawn are essential for a quick start to underground agriculture; rock nuts, sweet pod seeds, pig tail seeds, and cave wheat seeds will diversify your meals and drinks and let you set up for clothes-making. Seeds are packed in bags.<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
===== Items (fast start) =====<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]] - you'll save points by making it yourself.<br />
* only a few logs (just enough to get started with), unless the map has no trees<br />
<br />
See [[Make Your Own Weapons]] for more details on what to bring and how to make the battle axes you need to chop wood.<br />
<br />
===== Items (moderate start) =====<br />
Warning: Going without an anvil will slow you down until you get one in trade (which normally takes about 6 or 7 seasons) and might even cost you a failed [[strange mood]].<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] (at present, steel is the only option)<br />
* few or no logs, unless the map has no trees<br />
* with the points you save by not bringing an anvil, buy logs, bars of base metals you expect your site to lack, and (if needed) coal (for fuel and coke) and/or dolomite (for flux).<br />
<br />
===== Items (slow start) =====<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]]s<br />
* lots of logs - at least 25 on a heavily forested map. You can survive without them, but it's a lot cheaper to buy logs to make barrels than to bring more drink.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Free Equipment ===<br />
<br />
Dwarves who start with the ambusher skill get some leather armor, a crossbow and some bolts for free. <br />
<br />
<br />
=== Challenge Builds ===<br />
If you want a challenge try some [[Challenge_Builds]].<br />
<br />
{{Starting FAQ}}</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Starting_builds&diff=951240d:Starting builds2008-02-19T20:43:08Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''Starting builds''' are different strategies that you can choose when starting a new game in [[fortress mode]]. The skills and items which you assign to your dwarves will have a large impact on life in your new fortress' development, especially in its first year.<br />
<br />
This page gives advice on some of the many gameplay elements which influence the flow of your game based on your goals. These include: choosing a ''fortress site'', the ''starting build'' itself - defined by who and what to take with you - as well as ''challenge builds'' aimed at providing new or unusual challenges to advanced players.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Fortress Site ==<br />
Each fortress site offers particular challenges and opportunities; the starting builds below should be adjusted depending on what sort of fortress you envision ... and what it will take to stay alive where you're going!<br />
<br />
=== Mountains ===<br />
Most dwarven fortresses are founded along the edges of mountain ranges on sites that combine abundant ore and access to the outside world. Magma and rare metals lure settlers here, but [[goblins]], [[chasm]] dwellers, and even [[giant eagle]]s are potent threats.<br />
<br />
Trees and plants do not grow at high elevations, so you'll want to include non-mountainous areas to obtain lumber and food - or, failing this, to pack a lot of extra food and logs.<br />
<br />
Other consideration is elevation range. The game allows access up to 15 levels above the highest peak and 15 levels below the deepest valley, so steeper slopes means much more diggable area. The downside is lag; more levels also means more CPU burden (this can cripple a fortress - be careful).<br />
<br />
Be sure to include a stream on the map; running water is (almost) essential for any fortress. In Cold and Freezing climates streams and lakes will often be frozen year-round and your dwarves may quickly die of exposure. Choose Temperate or tropical zones for an easier game.<br />
<br />
=== Wooded Plains (with trees and plants) ===<br />
Flatlands with at least some trees and gatherable plants can also make for highly successful fortresses. <br />
<br />
Advantages over mountain zones include abundant trees and plants, guaranteed agriculture both on the surface and underground, fewer hostile fortresses and caves, and (unless frozen) more abundant water. There are even (rare) magma vents.<br />
<br />
The greatest disadvantage is lack of rock to mine. Fewer elevations means fewer exploitable z-levels. The first few levels below the surface are almost always soil, peat, loam, clay, or sand, none of which offers much (or any) gems, ore, or building material. An [[aquifer]], if present, may bar all access to stone until you freeze, pump out, or find a way through the water.<br />
<br />
=== Desert, Glaciers, and Barren (few or no trees and plants) ===<br />
Treeless (or near-treeless) biomes are challenging sites for a fortress: you get most of the disadvantages of a flatland site without having access to nearly as many trees and plants. However, near-lifeless zones such as glaciers are wonderful for those with slower machines, as there's little to burden the CPU but your dwarves and livestock. Deserts and barren areas often have sand; with a sufficient source of energy (preferably magma), you can build almost anything out of unlimited glass.<br />
<br />
=== Ocean Side ===<br />
An interesting combination of a few of the above locations, beaches are often a mix of ease intermingled with bouts of extreme difficulty. Minerals and trees are often abundant, as well as farmland and sand, but there is often no drinking water unless the biome has a river.<br />
There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Starting Builds ==<br />
Many of the quantities suggested end in a "1" or a "6"; this is to maximize the number of [[barrels]] you start with, since most foodstuffs fit five to a barrel. More barrels will let you build a larger stockpile for your first winter and conserves the [[wood]] you harvest in the early game for beds and other necessities.<br />
<br />
=== Basic ===<br />
The first order of business is simply to survive. Here is a simple, somewhat paranoid, way to do this.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
On most (but not all) sites, you'll want to get food, brew drink, mine, make wood and stone items, and trade. Whatever additional skills you purchase, be sure to cover these. If you need more points to buy skills (and it's a good idea to buy lots of skills), remove a battle axe.<br />
<br />
* 2 miners<br />
* 1 mason/mechanic<br />
* 1 carpenter/woodcutter<br />
* 1 grower/brewer/cook. He's responsible for making prepared meals and drinks.<br />
* either a herbalist/grower, or a fisherdwarf, or a hunter. The first gets you lots of brewable plants on maps with plants, the second gets you food and bones on maps with water (in maps with dangerous fish such as [[carp]] fishing is suicidal so be careful), and the third gets you meat and bones on maps with animals. Herbalism is usually the safest of the three.<br />
* 1 spare dwarf. You might make him the leader and broker; if so, give him at least novice [[appraiser]] skill so you know what stuff is worth. You might make him responsible for making trade goods, or turn him into your first soldier, or you might just give him some skills you want to experiment with.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
You want picks, food, and drink. Everything else is optional. The suggestions below assume you spent the maximum possible on skills. We'll pack lots just to be safe.<br />
<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s - 1 per miner<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] - so you can chop wood<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - so you can make weapons, trade crafts, and such<br />
* 20 units of drink: [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]] are all good. [[dwarven wine]] you'll get through brewing.<br />
* 30 [[plump helmets]] - They're good to eat and produce 5 units of booze for each one brewed at a [[still]].<br />
* 5 turtles - they get you bones and shells<br />
* 20 [[plump helmet spawn]] - for planting.<br />
* 2 dogs - to guard against thieves and help kill intruders.<br />
* (optional) other kinds of seeds and rock nuts<br />
* (optional) 1 of many different kinds of meats for extra barrels<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
If the map is treeless, remove the battle axe and spend the freed points on more plump helmets and logs (you're going to run out however many you bring...).<br />
<br />
If you're willing to wait a year or two to do any metalworking and you're sure traders will come, remove the anvil and spend the freed points on such things as skills, food and drink, wood, leather, raw materials, or weapons.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== '''Rapid Expansion''' ===<br />
A plan for quick growth followed up by heavy immigration works well both as an early game strategy and as an assist for a late game foundation. Starting off with the anvil is also much less troublesome if you drop both battleaxes and make your own picks too. Don't worry though, you'll be digging out cavernous villas in no time, and cheaply too, with this build. Food and stone will be in abundance and you'll have excellent worker time utilization. And due to the early metalworking and distributed skills your dwarves have, soon you'll have powerful steel-armored warrior workers that'll form the bedrock of a city guard.<br />
<br />
Always build a wood burning furnace, Smelter and Metalsmith shop first, and take apart that wagon for extra logs. Either burn those logs into charcoal, or smelt coal into fuel, and then make your tools.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & skills ====<br />
By dropping both picks and axes you'll be able to afford a lot of useful skills, and you'll be able to get a metalsmithing shop running within the first seconds of your game, so no precious time is lost. Your Dwarves are divided largely into two groups, your laborers (Butcher, Baker and candle--er, Brewer) and your craftsdwarves. Essentially a Blue collar/White collar divide to set up a nice class war later. Also, by having such wide assortments of skills, your dwarves will get lots of attribute bonuses and become extremely capable fighters by the time you need to worry about that.<br />
<br />
Laborers are given mining and growing skills with some extra to cover food production. The Ranger is the oddball, but will spend his early days gathering plants and hauling items, so fits here. Your first order of business with them is to dig that top later out quickly and get some farms started and fully stocked. Then, as they grow, you can go back to digging out the rest of the base.<br />
<br />
* The Baker: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Cooking.<br />
* The Brewer: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +3 Brewing.<br />
* The Butcher: +5 Mining, +2 Growing, +1 Butchering, +1 Tanning, +1 Leatherworking. Make some bags for sand and the Quarry Bushes and a butcher's shop before the Ranger starts his hunts.<br />
<br />
* The Ranger: +3 Woodcutter, +3 Carpenter, +1 Herbalist, +1 Ambusher, +2 Axedwarf. Be sure to assign a war dog or two to this guy, since he's the only one who needs to go outside. Once he gets an axe, he'll also be a competent fighter and hunter and will start with armor due to +1 ambusher.<br />
<br />
Craftsdwarves focus on running shops, building trade goods, and making the outpost as profitable as possible in the first year, to attract additional immigrants that can be thrown into the mines or toil in the mushroom fields. They should have very broad skill bases, but the actual choice of leader is up to you.<br />
<br />
* The Smithy: +1 Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Metalsmith, Furnace Operator, Wood Burner, Stone Crafting, Bone Carving. This guy will cover all of your rarely needed creation skills, and make your picks and axes. After this he usually ends up making scads of stone crafts for sale. Glassworking, gem cutting, and potash making are good as well, and even with novice in all areas you'll build fast enough for these rare items.<br />
* The Foreman: +3 Building Design, +3 Mechanic, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper. Building design and mechanical work is extremely quick work, so instead give him nobleman skills to spend the rest of his work hours on. These are extremely useful in the long-term.<br />
* The Freemason: +5 Masonry. It seems a bit silly to give him just one primary skill, but Masons are usually working 24 hours a day on all variety of stone doors, chairs and tables.<br />
<br />
There's a variation if you want a more 'compact' design of those last two:<br />
<br />
* The Construction Worker: +5 Masonry, +3 Mechanic, +2 Building Design.<br />
* The Lazy Boss: +3 Fishing, +3 Fish Cleaning, +1 Judge of Intent, Appraiser, Organizer, Record Keeper.<br />
<br />
This is not as useful or safe, as Fishing is a time-intensive skill, so it takes him away from his record keeping job for extended periods and a Carp might kill him. It also forces your Mason to get behind on Queues every time someone needs a trap build or a workshop set up. Halting book-keeping doesn't slow down any production, so the original stat-spread can work out better.<br />
<br />
==== Items ====<br />
The only thing you need is your anvil, a few stones and bars of metal, everything else is optional. A point of contention is the Iron Axe you'll be making, as some may prefer it to be steel. Steel Bars cost 150, which is three times the cost of iron, and only provide a small damage bonus and no chopping speed bonus. If you start in an area with [[Limestone]] or [[Chalk]] you'll soon be able to smelt Steel with your functioning metalsmith shop anyway. If you're on a map without trees, well, I suppose you don't need the axe at all. But in that case you'd be better off taking the picks, dropping the anvil, and buying a few hundred logs.<br />
<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]] - this is what makes it all possible, and helps you get started faster.<br />
* 3 [[Copper|Copper bars]] - these cost 10 each, and will be your picks. Three for the price of one, literally.<br />
* 1 [[Iron|Iron bar]] - this costs 50, and will be your axe. The 40 extra is worth it for the damage increase you get over copper or bronze.<br />
* 2 [[Bituminous coal]] or [[Log]]s - you can smelt two coal into 4 fuel for the cost of 2 logs. Inexpensive at 3 each, one can afford to bring more.<br />
* 4 cheap stone - any sort works, such as inexpensive [[granite]]. You'll use these to make your first three buildings.<br />
<br />
That's what you need to get started, but this is a guide for the items on your list. This build does not require or recommend bringing plump helmets due to their cost. Instead, encourage your dwarves to eat the turtles and meat out of the barrels and cook wine biscuits. Your farms will be running amazingly quickly anyway, and for half the cost of a single helmet you can make feed several dwarves on baked beer. You'll get enough seeds from brewing the [[plump helmets]] soon enough.<br />
<br />
* 26 of [[Dwarven wine|Wine]], [[Dwarven rum|Rum]], [[Dwarven beer|Beer]] and [[Dwarven ale|Ale]]<br />
* 36 of [[rock nut]]s, [[Plump helmet spawn]] and [[Pig tail]] [[seeds]]<br />
* 11 [[turtle]]s - these hilarious little dudes are way better than the meat you usually set out with, what with all the bones they leave. I use these as 'before farming' rations and build up a good supply of bone bolts. Shells are also valuable to have around.<br />
* 1 of each other 2 cost meat, for extra empty barrels. Barrels cost 10, so getting any food below that can save you money.<br />
* 2 [[Dogs]] - preferably war dogs or hunting dogs. Assign these to your Ranger. Bring a pair so you can make more dogs.<br />
* 1 [[Horse]] - they're relatively inexpensive and will help you begin breeding horses faster, as you are nearly always getting a horse with your wagon. Livestock are a valuable commodity for meat and bones, and you want as many of these as possible 'emergency rations' on hand.<br />
* 4 [[Leather]] - you need leather bags to process [[quarry bush]]es and to gather sand for glass. Four will be enough, and you can get it for only 20.<br />
<br />
If you do it exactly as written, you will end up with a few points left over. Grab some extra food or upgrade one of your copper bars to an actual copper pick, if you want a faster start. These foodstuffs will last a very long time if managed properly, so get your farms going and start preparing for next year now.<br />
<br />
=== Metalbashing/Glassworking ===<br />
Heavy metalbashing and glassworking requires a site with 1) abundant fuel and 2) raw materials. Magma is ideal but large coal seams or a forest will also suffice. A site with either limestone or chalk means nearly unlimited steel. Any site with "sand" (not "loamy sand" or the like) will permit glassworking. Failing these, any place with lots of rock, trees, and preferably sand will work fine. Your biggest choice when setting up is whether to optimize for a fast start or long-term success.<br />
<br />
==== Dwarves & Skills ====<br />
Unless you're trying a low-skills challenge, each dwarf should get the maximum possible number (currently 10) of skill boosts; remove a battle axe to free up needed points. Individual preferences can be mighty handy; if you have a dwarf who likes steel, clear glass, crossbows, siege engine parts, or something else equally interesting, he's an ideal candidate for matching skills.<br />
<br />
* A Carpenter/Leader: Points into Carpenter, Wood Cutter, and a bunch of nobles' skills, including at least novice Negotiator and Appraiser. This dwarf should have good inter-personal thoughts/preferences.<br />
* A Mason/Mechanic: Points into Mason, Building Designer, and Mechanic. Adding more points to Mason gets construction materials and furniture faster. More points to Mechanic allows faster trap-setting. Adding Appraiser and/or Negotiator skills gives you a back-up leader or broker. A boost to Wrestling gets you better on-call defense.<br />
* A Farmer/Herbalist (assumes the site has at least some plants): This dwarf will gather the plant material you need to brew drinks. Points into Grower and Herbalist. Leftover skill raises should be invested in a valuable, hard to raise trade skill such as [[Blacksmith]], [[Metal_crafter|Metal Crafter]], or perhaps [[Glassmaker]] or [[Clothier]].<br />
* A Farmer/Brewer/Cook: This dwarf is responsible for keeping your community fed and liquored up. Points into Grower, Brewer, and (optionally) Cook. Leftover skill raises should be invested as for the Farmer/Herbalist.<br />
* A Craftsdwarf: Points into whatever hard-to-raise skills you most want. [[Armorsmith]], [[Weaponsmith]], [[Bowyer]], [[Glassmaker]], and even [[Siege_engineer|Siege Engineer]], [[Clothier]], or [[Gem_setter|Gem Setter]] can all be good choices depending on your setup. If you plan to bash metal, remember to spend a few points on Furnace Operator and (if needed) Wood Burning.<br />
* 2 Miners/Soldiers: Points into both mining and military skills. The miners first get legendary and then become extremely powerful fighters. Remember that it's much easier to increase Mining skill than most of the military skills (especially Armor User), but also that you'll want capable miners immediately.<br />
<br />
With this setup, you have several ways to make the trade goods you'll need to buy what you lack. Metal goblets, stone mugs, handwear, footwear, mechanisms, bone or wood crossbows, prepared meals, or bone and shell crafts are all solid choices.<br />
<br />
Food and drink for the first few seasons are assured by first cooking all the meat to free up barrels, then brewing your plump helmets (and any gathered plants) to make booze.<br />
<br />
==== Items (all starts) ====<br />
* 2 [[pick]]s<br />
* 6 or 11 of each of [[dwarven ale]], [[dwarven beer]], and [[dwarven rum]]. With abundant brewable plants and lots of wood you don't actually need any starting booze, but it's nice to have a backup.<br />
* at least 11 [[plump helmet]]s. Bring a lot more if you anticipate problems with gathering brewable plants.<br />
* at least 6 [[turtle]]s. Not only are they good eating, they ensure you have the [[shell]]s and [[bone]]s needed to satisfy [[strange mood]]s.<br />
* 1 of every kind of meat that costs 2 or 4, as each type of meat will be packed in its own free barrel and cooking the meat will release that barrel for use. If you don't like this feature, bring more turtles or plump helmets instead.<br />
* Unless the map is glacial, or you intend only outdoor agriculture, bring plenty of seeds as well. A minimum of 15 plump helmet spawn are essential for a quick start to underground agriculture; rock nuts, sweet pod seeds, pig tail seeds, and cave wheat seeds will diversify your meals and drinks and let you set up for clothes-making. Seeds are packed in bags.<br />
* (optional) some cheap (5 point) leather to make quivers and bags and such<br />
<br />
===== Items (fast start) =====<br />
* 1 [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]] - you'll save points by making it yourself.<br />
* only a few logs (just enough to get started with), unless the map has no trees<br />
<br />
See [[Make Your Own Weapons]] for more details on what to bring and how to make the battle axes you need to chop wood.<br />
<br />
===== Items (moderate start) =====<br />
Warning: Going without an anvil will slow you down until you get one in trade (which normally takes about 6 or 7 seasons) and might even cost you a failed [[strange mood]].<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* 1 [[battle axe]] (at present, steel is the only option)<br />
* few or no logs, unless the map has no trees<br />
* with the points you save by not bringing an anvil, buy logs, bars of base metals you expect your site to lack, and (if needed) coal (for fuel and coke) and/or dolomite (for flux).<br />
<br />
===== Items (slow start) =====<br />
* no [[Anvil]]<br />
* no [[battle axe]]s<br />
* lots of logs - at least 25 on a heavily forested map. You can survive without them, but it's a lot cheaper to buy logs to make barrels than to bring more drink.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Free Equipment ===<br />
<br />
Dwarves who start with the ambusher skill get some leather armor, a crossbow and some bolts for free. <br />
<br />
<br />
=== Challenge Builds ===<br />
If you want a challenge try some [[Challenge_Builds]].<br />
<br />
{{Starting FAQ}}</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Samyotix&diff=37577User talk:Samyotix2008-02-17T21:28:27Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
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<div><div class="noprint" style="border: solid #000 1px; margin: 0 0 1em 1em; font-size: 100%; background: #fff0ff; width: 480px; padding: 5px; spacing: 0px; text-align: left; "><br />
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<center>Welcome to '''Dwarf Fortress Wiki''', {{PAGENAME}}!<br><br />
Please see our [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community_Portal#We_are_doing_this.21_Let_us_do_it_right.|guidelines]] on editing.</center><br />
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To sign comments on a talk page just put <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> after your message. It will get replaced with a signature, link to your userpage, and a timestamp. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:54, 17 February 2008 (EST)<br />
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Thanks! [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 16:28, 17 February 2008 (EST)</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Trading/Talk_Caravan&diff=2261740d Talk:Trading/Talk Caravan2008-02-17T13:15:24Z<p>Samyotix: /* Caravans immune to drowning? */</p>
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<div>====Insane merchants?====<br />
I have a trade depot at -3 (fully accessible). I've just had a dwarven caravan arrive, and I did some good trading. Then the merchants said goodbye... and just stood there. Then they went insane.<br />
<br />
How do I prevent this happening again? Because this lot are starting to putrify...[[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 17:23, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
Damned if I know. I now make a habit of locking up the outpost liaison because he's gone insane, often berserk, in every game I've played.<br />
Ever. [[User:PandaKnight|PandaKnight]] 02:45, 17 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:make sure they have a 3x3 path cleared - some trees might have grown since arrival. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:34, 13 February 2008 (EST)<br />
====Caravan roads ====<br />
Does the presence or absense of a road affect where the human caravan appears? I cleared a nice path for it that it ignored when it appeared on the other side of the map... if I had built a road too, would that have forced it to appear on the road? Or will I eventually need roads in all directions? --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 16:04, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:In v33a, no caravans need roads. However, I think the human caravan needs a smoothed, 3-wide path to a map edge - but I'm not certain about this.<br />
:It's probably worth mentioning that roads might speed up a caravan - reducing the chance that they leave before they've unpacked.[[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:31, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:(Sorry, to answer your question, I don't think you can influence where the caravan appears. I know that both the Elven and Dwarven caravans have ignored my roads when choosing their starting position.)[[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:33, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:On a relatively flat and moderately forested map I recently played, each civ seemed to have a preferred side of the map to enter, but were relatively random about where on the edge they appeared. I built a straight, smoothed road to each edge that went largely unused. The human wagons are happy to go up and down slopes and cross quite rough (but unobstructed) ground to reach me. A smooth road would almost certainly speed their arrival and departure. As an aside, the goblin civ in my current map has been quite happy to start sieges from several different sides, so take the directionality with a grain of salt. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:33, 16 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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Does the trade depot need to be out side or on the ground level for the Human wagons to reach it. Can I use stairs or do they need a ramp? [[User:Jikor|Jikor]] 15:32, 24 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:The level and location doesn't matter, as long as it's reachable from the arrival level on the surface. Which level is the arriving one depends on the map, and is best found using the {{k|D}}epot Accessibility tool. Ramps, of course, are needed in place of stairs. If your Depot doesn't show up as accessible using the tool, then look along your planned route for where there isn't a three-tile wide path for them to use. Common causes of blocked access are boulders and trees, the former being removed by smoothing, the latter only being permanently negated using roads, (trees will eventually grow back causing the path to be blocked.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:33, 24 January 2008 (EST)<br />
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<br />
====Bugged Human Caravans====<br />
I've had a crash bug associated with the arrival of the human caravan. Interestingly, when I raised my drawbridges, limiting access to my depot to a torturous 1-wide path, the caravan arrived OK with the message along the lines of "the wagons have bypassed this stop." I only got the mule-back traders, but no crash. This repeated the next year. I'm guessing this relates to Toady's comments about a seed pricing bug. It's possible that it's a pathing issue with the wagons, of course. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:33, 16 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:Since upgrading to 33b, I have not seen this bug. Hooray! [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 22:46, 21 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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====Caravans immune to drowning?====<br />
Can anybody confirm this? It looks like very unlikely to me... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 01:40, 26 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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(Samyotix) A Brook is a walkable water tile, even with 7/7 water. Since there's no trees or boulders blocking the way in a brook, these are almost like highways.<br />
On my latest fortress I smoothed out a wide path for the caravans across rocky terrain... imagine my surprise when the traders completely ignored the road and chose the (shorter) route through the Brook :)<br />
<br />
== Merge this into [[Trading]] ==<br />
<br />
Caravans are only relevant to trading so lets just merge them into that article. No use having the same information spread all over the wiki. I don't have time to do it now. Need to get to work. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:09, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
: I agree. Objections anyone? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:34, 13 February 2008 (EST)</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Trading&diff=3597740d Talk:Trading2008-02-17T13:10:42Z<p>Samyotix: /* blasted elves */</p>
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<div>This needs wikification with some amounts of rewriting. I will give it a go. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 06:51, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Yea thanks, this is my first try at a wiki-page. sorry if it was crappy... --[[User:CombatWombat|CombatWombat]] 06:42, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Nah, there's no such thing as a crappy wiki edit, when its got content in it. Just remember to be bold, otherwise there would be nothing here. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 07:29, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Extraction from different articles ==<br />
<br />
All the information on trading seems quite scattered now (Trade depot, Caravan, Dwarf, Elf, Human etc), and as most stuff is well written I think we should merge the trade sections to this one page and leave behind only refecences. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 08:29, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:Looking good, is there a 'your first caravan'-type tutorial anywhere we could link to? Something with advice on the sort of goods to prepare and what to buy for the first winter, with new players in mind. I'll try and find one somewhere. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:07, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
: Done, linked to the trade section in the new player guide. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:11, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Done++ Someone else finish merging the information from Caravans into the page. Make sure to get that awesome Elf trader image. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:10, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Haulers? ==<br />
In my experience the "bring item to depot" tasks were performed by any dwarf, even without any hauling labors enabled. Can also be my imagination. I cannot check it for now, so, anyone, please verify.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:49, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:That's correct, as many times my pure crafters will stop crafting to haul goods to the depot, despite having only one or two production labors enabled. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:41, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Is this similar to plant gathering where even non-working nobles and children will do it, or is it limted to any regular dwarf regardless of labour? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 19:04, 31 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:::Yes, nobles and children will haul stuff to the depot. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:19, 1 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Moving goods on afterwards ==<br />
<br />
To get things ''out'' of the depot.... do I have to order them removed while the caravan is still around?<br />
I have starving dwarves... and food going rotten in the depot![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:36, 5 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:AFAIK, no. in my experience, anything bought is treated as like it's just lying there, not being traded.<br />
Well, yes and no. Once trading is finished dwarves will start bringing the bought goods in while the caravan still is there. But you cant 'order' them to per se ;) Your own stuff that wasnt sold however will remain in depot till the caravan leaves. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:45, 13 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::Unless you go back into the {{k|g}}oods menu at the Depot and unmark them for trading. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:25, 14 February 2008 (EST)<br />
I've a question in the same vein: I just traded for a truckload of goods, but the traders didn't even leave them in the depot! They just carried my goods out with them. Were my dwarves supposed to carry all of the goods back earlier? --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 14:08, 16 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== blasted elves ==<br />
Just because ther's some little decorating bone on the bracelet. How am i supposed to remember every art i make in detail, just because of their weird moods??? Grr...now what was that, s for seize? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 16:55, 16 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
==Duplicate Page?==<br />
The page "Caravan" has very similar information, though this "trading" page seems more complete.[Samyotix]</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Trading&diff=3597640d Talk:Trading2008-02-17T13:10:21Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
<hr />
<div>This needs wikification with some amounts of rewriting. I will give it a go. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 06:51, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Yea thanks, this is my first try at a wiki-page. sorry if it was crappy... --[[User:CombatWombat|CombatWombat]] 06:42, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Nah, there's no such thing as a crappy wiki edit, when its got content in it. Just remember to be bold, otherwise there would be nothing here. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 07:29, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Extraction from different articles ==<br />
<br />
All the information on trading seems quite scattered now (Trade depot, Caravan, Dwarf, Elf, Human etc), and as most stuff is well written I think we should merge the trade sections to this one page and leave behind only refecences. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 08:29, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:Looking good, is there a 'your first caravan'-type tutorial anywhere we could link to? Something with advice on the sort of goods to prepare and what to buy for the first winter, with new players in mind. I'll try and find one somewhere. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:07, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
: Done, linked to the trade section in the new player guide. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 09:11, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Done++ Someone else finish merging the information from Caravans into the page. Make sure to get that awesome Elf trader image. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 12:10, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Haulers? ==<br />
In my experience the "bring item to depot" tasks were performed by any dwarf, even without any hauling labors enabled. Can also be my imagination. I cannot check it for now, so, anyone, please verify.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:49, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:That's correct, as many times my pure crafters will stop crafting to haul goods to the depot, despite having only one or two production labors enabled. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:41, 28 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Is this similar to plant gathering where even non-working nobles and children will do it, or is it limted to any regular dwarf regardless of labour? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 19:04, 31 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:::Yes, nobles and children will haul stuff to the depot. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:19, 1 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Moving goods on afterwards ==<br />
<br />
To get things ''out'' of the depot.... do I have to order them removed while the caravan is still around?<br />
I have starving dwarves... and food going rotten in the depot![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:36, 5 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:AFAIK, no. in my experience, anything bought is treated as like it's just lying there, not being traded.<br />
Well, yes and no. Once trading is finished dwarves will start bringing the bought goods in while the caravan still is there. But you cant 'order' them to per se ;) Your own stuff that wasnt sold however will remain in depot till the caravan leaves. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:45, 13 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::Unless you go back into the {{k|g}}oods menu at the Depot and unmark them for trading. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:25, 14 February 2008 (EST)<br />
I've a question in the same vein: I just traded for a truckload of goods, but the traders didn't even leave them in the depot! They just carried my goods out with them. Were my dwarves supposed to carry all of the goods back earlier? --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 14:08, 16 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== blasted elves ==<br />
Just because ther's some little decorating bone on the bracelet. How am i supposed to remember every art i make in detail, just because of their weird moods??? Grr...now what was that, s for seize? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 16:55, 16 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Duplicate Page?<br />
The page "Caravan" has very similar information, though this "trading" page seems more complete.</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Miner&diff=3757140d Talk:Miner2008-02-17T12:34:10Z<p>Samyotix: New page: According to the Forum, "Hammerdwarf" is the military skill which dictates how efficient a pick wielding Miner will fight once drafted.</p>
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<div>According to the Forum, "Hammerdwarf" is the military skill which dictates how efficient a pick wielding Miner will fight once drafted.</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Fire_man&diff=3516140d:Fire man2008-02-17T12:09:26Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
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<div>Fire men seem to come out of the same places that imps do, but they are a little bolder and can go out past the lava vent. They leave behind a block of [[ash]] when killed.<br />
<br />
To stop fire men from attacking your dwarves, build a moat around the lava vent.<br />
If you can, fill it with water from a river or a brook. Designating the moat as a pond should also work.<br />
<br />
After you have made a moat, the firemen should stop attacking.<br />
<br />
<br />
To stop them from attacking your smiths is a little harder.<br />
<br />
* First dig a channel but do not let it fill with lava yet<br />
<br />
* Then put vertical steel bars as close to the entrance of the lava as you can (in the channel)<br />
<br />
* Dig out the rest of the lava channel<br />
<br />
* Then add walls to box in any lava squares that are before the steel bars. <br />
<br />
* This stops the firemen from getting out before the steel bars.</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:On_break&diff=3755840d Talk:On break2008-02-17T12:06:40Z<p>Samyotix: New page: Not sure if this page makes any sense to keep in the Wiki. a) Spelling not okay b) Insulting wordings c) no useful information d) "Holiday" is not a game concept; the Wiki should stick to ...</p>
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<div>Not sure if this page makes any sense to keep in the Wiki.<br />
a) Spelling not okay<br />
b) Insulting wordings<br />
c) no useful information<br />
d) "Holiday" is not a game concept; the Wiki should stick to DwarfFortress terminology</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Metamorphic_layer&diff=2286240d:Metamorphic layer2008-02-17T12:02:52Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
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<div>Metamorphic layers are often avoided since they are the type with the lowest variety of metal [[ore]]s. However, they are richer in [[gem]]s than any other type. Unlike [[sedimentary layer]]s, metamorphic [[rock]] can be found in the same [[biome]] as [[igneous extrusive layer]]s. As [[igneous extrusive layer]]s are almost always present in areas of [[volcano|volcanic activity]], this makes [[marble]] the easiest [[flux]] to find on the same map as a [[magma vent]].<br />
<br />
==Types of metamorphic layers==<br />
{{list|metamorphic layer}}<br />
==Notable minerals==<br />
{{list|metamorphic ore}}<br />
==Gems==<br />
===Ornamental===<br />
{{list|metamorphic ornamental gem}}<br />
===Semi-precious===<br />
{{list|metamorphic semi-precious gem}}<br />
<br />
==Other stone==<br />
{{list|metamorphic stone}}<br />
[[Category:Stone Layers]]</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Rock_salt&diff=2688940d Talk:Rock salt2008-02-14T22:14:37Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
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<div>Has anything been said about this mineral being processed/milled into a foodstuff? After all, sodium chloride has long been used for seasoning. On that note, oceanic fortresses might benefit from an option to boil off seawater into seasoning salt at the Kitchen. Yum. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 13:37, 16 November 2007 (EST)</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Rock_salt&diff=2688840d Talk:Rock salt2008-02-14T21:59:23Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
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<div>Has anything been said about this mineral being processed/milled into a foodstuff? After all, sodium chloride has long been used for seasoning. On that note, oceanic fortresses might benefit from an option to boil off seawater into seasoning salt at the Kitchen. Yum. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 13:37, 16 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
I can't seem to be able to smooth or engrave Rock Salt walls: Rough-Hews Rock Salt Walls cannot be designated for Smoothing, Engraving or Fortifications in Dwarf Fortress v0.27.173.38a. (Samyotix Feb 14 2008)</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Rock_salt&diff=2688740d Talk:Rock salt2008-02-14T21:58:43Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
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<div>Has anything been said about this mineral being processed/milled into a foodstuff? After all, sodium chloride has long been used for seasoning. On that note, oceanic fortresses might benefit from an option to boil off seawater into seasoning salt at the Kitchen. Yum. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 13:37, 16 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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I can't seem to be able to smooth or engrave Rock Salt walls: Rough-Hews Rock Salt Walls cannot be designated for Smoothing or Engraving in Dwarf Fortress v0.27.173.38a. (Samyotix Feb 14 2008)</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Rock_salt&diff=2688640d Talk:Rock salt2008-02-14T21:58:26Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
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<div>Has anything been said about this mineral being processed/milled into a foodstuff? After all, sodium chloride has long been used for seasoning. On that note, oceanic fortresses might benefit from an option to boil off seawater into seasoning salt at the Kitchen. Yum. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 13:37, 16 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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I can't seem to be able to smooth or engrave Rock Salt walls: Rough-Hews Rock Salt Walls cannot be designated for Smoothing or Engraving in Dwarf Fortress v0.27.173.38a. (Samyotix)</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Rock_salt&diff=2688540d Talk:Rock salt2008-02-14T21:58:02Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
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<div>Has anything been said about this mineral being processed/milled into a foodstuff? After all, sodium chloride has long been used for seasoning. On that note, oceanic fortresses might benefit from an option to boil off seawater into seasoning salt at the Kitchen. Yum. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 13:37, 16 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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I can't seem to be able to smooth or engrave Rock Salt walls: Rough-Hews Rock Salt Walls cannot be designated for Smoothing or Engraving in Dwarf Fortress v0.27.173.38a. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]]</div>Samyotixhttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Rock_salt&diff=2688440d Talk:Rock salt2008-02-14T21:57:30Z<p>Samyotix: </p>
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<div>Has anything been said about this mineral being processed/milled into a foodstuff? After all, sodium chloride has long been used for seasoning. On that note, oceanic fortresses might benefit from an option to boil off seawater into seasoning salt at the Kitchen. Yum. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 13:37, 16 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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I can't seem to be able to smooth or engrave Rock Salt walls: Rough-Hews Rock Salt Walls cannot be designated for Smoothing or Engraving in Dwarf Fortress v0.27.173.38a.</div>Samyotix