http://dwarffortresswiki.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Shurikane&feedformat=atomDwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T06:51:19ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.35.11http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Main_Page/Quote&diff=36700Main Page/Quote2009-04-25T18:12:37Z<p>Shurikane: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Choose|c={{#if: {{{1|}}}|{{rand|66}}|{{#expr: ({{rand2|10}}+56)}} }}<br />
|<!--1-->I can't put my finger on it. Something about this [[Fire|‼]]Cat tallow roast[[Fire|‼]] tastes funny.<br />
|<!--2-->Toady withdraws from society. Toady has begun a [[Strange_mood|mysterious]] construction!<br />
|<!--3-->Let us never forget the last words of Inod the Stoker, [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fortress_Paintrag#1056 "Aaah! Gorillas!"]<br />
|<!--4-->[[Children|Newborn]] Zuglar Baldnessgranite prefers to consume Gorilla. A sure sign of his unparalleled strength!<br />
|<!--5-->[http://www.somethingawful.com/d/video-game-article/duke-nukem-image.php In an unrelated article] - I had no idea elephants could bounce that high!<br />
|<!--6-->[[Toady]] looses a roaring laughter, [[Fey|fell]] and terrible! Toady has butchered a spammer!<br />
|<!--7-->The critical question is this''':''' do elf bones yield more crossbow bolts than the average number of bolts necessary to kill an elf?<br />
|<!--8-->"Dwarf Fortress" ... "Like chess, only with short people that can catch on [[fire]] like [[clothing|rags]] soaked in tar, and lots of [[booze]]." ... "Like chess."<br />
|<!--9-->Dwarf Fortress has taught me that all the world's problems would be substantially reduced had our parent civilizations never minted more than four stacks of [[coins]].<br />
|<!--10-->Booze does all the work in forts. Dwarves are just booze exoskeletons.<br />
|<!--11-->My unconscious and bleeding [[mayor]] just mandated the construction of some goods.<br />
|<!--12-->I can just imagine a wagon throwing a tantrum and tossing all its contents at people.<br />
|<!--13-->Döbesh Udosdeb has been ecstatic lately. He was forced to eat a friend to survive. He enjoyed a truly decadent meal.<br />
|<!--14-->Iron [[screw pump]] exercise equipment. Pump iron and get superdwarvenly strong!<br />
|<!--15-->The violence, aggression, pain, madness, sadness of the ASCII characters never ceases to amaze me...<br />
|<!--16-->Wait, you're MAKING animals?<br>&mdash;''Torak''<br>At this moment, yes, I am smelting cows.<br>&mdash;''Spiders Everywhere''<br />
|<!--17-->"Didn't you read the manual? He he he he... the manual... ..."<br>--[[Toady One]]<br />
|<!--18-->(Compared to real-world years) Dwarven years are shorter.<br>--Sowelu<br><br>Very fitting to dwarves, I must add.<br>--Sean Mirrsen<br />
|<!--19-->[[Magma]] is not a [[water]] source. Dwarves can't drink it or supply it to their wounded.<br>--[[User:AlienChickenPie|AlienChickenPie]]<br />
|<!--20-->"<nowiki>[B]</nowiki>oats are the enemy of tiles. And tiles are the enemy of boats."<br>--[[Toady One]]<br />
|<!--21-->"I went through and fixed a few places where forbidden/on fire weren't being respected for next time. Burning milkable creatures were still a problem for example."<br>--[[Toady One]]<br />
|<!--22-->"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!"<br>--[[User:Savok|Savok]]<br />
|<!--23-->"What happened in 1048?" "Jreengus occurred."<br />
|<!--24-->Making rock instruments isn't nearly as awesome as it sounds --Shandrunn<br />
|<!--25-->The cyclops I was quested to kill had a thousand year history of badassery, and all of that without the leg it lost in the Year 3 (a dwarf bit it off... I should probably deal with that). --[[Toady One]]<br />
|<!--26-->[FIREIMMUNE] makes them think that [[magma]] is safe but doesn't actually make them fireproof. This can lead to some rather interesting results.<br />
|<!--27-->Endok Cerolneth has begun a mysterious construction!<br />
Endok Cerolneth, Planter has given birth to a girl.<br />
|<!--28-->"Incendia sunt socia vestra, armaque vestra, fortesque Montis Domi." "Magma is your ally, your weapon, the strength of the Mountain-Home." --Eita<br />
|<!--29-->"Stopped people from giving quests to kill themselves." --[[Toady One]]<br />
|<!--30-->"...And I simply doubt we have a need for 7 fishery workers. On top of that, a second soap maker. The hell IS soap?!" --Zero<br />
|<!--31-->"This is a terrible pun. All craftsdwarfship is of the poorest quality." - [http://tinyurl.com/6yruly Soup_alex]<br />
|<!--32-->"The default mental state of a dwarf is madness. Sanity is a temporary condition - a PRIVILEGE you have to EARN!" --[[User:Fedor|Fedor]]<br />
|<!--33-->"Why get normal cats? I buy lolcats in the embark screen. Much more fun to engrave about them." --Yanlin<br />
|<!--34-->"Dwarf Fortress taught me it was okay to make a suit out of my neighbour's skin, as long as I gave it a name." <br />
|<!--35-->"Got rid of world gen crash during succession after death of prolific long-standing position holders with inbred descendants" --[[Toady One]]<br />
|<!--36-->"There was a typo in the siegers' campfire code. When the fires went out, so did the game." --[[Toady One]]<br />
|<!--37-->"Hey, what does that flashing red and orange text mean? What? Why is there smoke everywhere? Oh god, are those BABIES on fire?" --[[User:StrawberryBunny|StrawberryBunny]]<br />
|<!--38-->"It's never 'just a game' when you're losing."<br>--George Carlin (if he played Dwarf Fortress)<br />
|<!--39-->Not that building a bridge out of soap makes much sense to begin with anyway.<br />
|<!--40-->Note that while you cannot milk larger animals yourself, civilizations can still milk animals "off screen" for your benefit.<br />
|<!--41-->Tosid Idenarzes likes tentacle demons for their corrupt intentions. "There! Now we've covered all of the seven deadly sins."<br />
|<!--42-->"Litast Idenudesh, baby, is throwing a tantrum! Inod Litastrilem, Mayor, has lost consciousness. Inod Litastrilem, Mayor, has bled to death."<br />
|<!--43-->"Known bug #780: Town guard becomes a criminal after getting an adventurer's stolen weapon stuck in his body."<br />
|<!--44-->"Udib Toblumaid, Axedwarf, cancels sparring in Barracks: too insane." [[User:Ben jamm1n|Ben jamm1n]]<br />
|<!--45-->Kosoth Cilobonol, Bone Carver cancels Drink: Unconscious.<br />
|<!--46-->Sizir the Snail of Bait is a deity of The Fresh Towers. Sizir most often takes the form of a female dwarf and is associated with jealousy.<br />
|<!--47-->Sibrek Tanbim likes Limestone, Tin, Smoky Quartz, the color crimson, bolts, scepters, anvils, and rock blocks for their lack of quality levels.<br />
|<!--48-->Most vermin teleport, so nothing actually contains them. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]]<br />
|<!--49-->There are 5 articles in category Lore: Armok, Cave Adaptation, Elephant, Philosopher, and Vomit.<br />
|<!--50-->Fixed Bug #888: There was an alligator drunk<br />
|<!--51-->Fixed Bug #563: Mayor ordered himself beaten for failing to make crystal glass<br />
|<!--52-->If cow cheese is made from cow's milk, what is dwarven cheese made of?<br />
|<!--53-->''Belbezevost Närangagak Äkig:''<br>Goatsects the Raw Red Anus of Stretching<br />
|<!--54-->Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn<br />
|<!--55-->"You know, Urist, you've got a mind like an +Ash Trap+."--[[User:Destor|Destor]]<br />
|<!--56-->'''Zander J:''' "Is there a way to stop immigration without setting the population cap?"<br>'''Yanlin:''' "Magma."<br />
|<!--57-->[16:08] <[[User:Squeegy|Snowden]]> the merchants won't leave because I killed their guys<br>[16:08] <[[User:Squeegy|Snowden]]> and I can't lock them in and drown them because there's shoes on the floodgate<br />
|<!--58--><BBB>Hm, the only dwarf who bothered helping my crippled mayor is my legendary bonecarver.<br><BBB>Hm, fuck. He's not dragging him towards his bed.<br><Nikov>"Oh, is that thing slowing you down? I could make you a nice walking stick out of it..."<br />
|<!--59-->An animal trainer just suddenly stopped working and hid himself in a workshop. He's probably going to make a wardog out of rock and goblin skulls.<br />
|<!--60-->flying creatures give birth in midair, leading to tragedy<br />
|<!--61-->"So I built this genius contraption, see? It uses the combined power of those 12 water-wheels, and those 6 windmills, and brings the water from BEHIND the wheels, all the way to the top of the mountain." "Then what does it do?" "Nothing. Not until you pull this lever, see?" -The Creation of The Doomsday Lever<br />
|<!--62-->"Dwarf Fortress: Screw mining for fish, we're fishing for rocks!" -Duke 2.0<br />
|<!--63-->"Thanks to the central chamber being floodable, in the case of a siege, all I have to do is lure the gobbos in and throw the lever. Then, my dwarves can keep going about their business, while the goblins are busy sorting themselves by density." -Moddington<br />
|<!--64-->"Bloodedrivers the new Beginnings<br>On the forums is a masterful rendition of an image of a human and a dwarf fortress wiki. The dwarf fortress wiki is being read by the human. The human '''has no goddamn clue what the hell is going on'''." -Neruz's edit of uberubert post<br />
|<!--65-->'''Urdim Kutamèrith, Pump Operator, has created Rakusttenshed, a Glumprong blowgun!''' <br> Urdim, you are a freaking idiot.<br />
|<!--66--><Forkez> I don't get the game, but I do get that tunnels flooded with water is a bad thing.<br />
}}<!--WARNING:EQUALS SIGNS BREAK THINGS<br />
NOTICE: If you are editing this and you have not read the instructions on the talk page, your quote will probably not appear.--><noinclude>[[Category:Humor and stories]]</noinclude></div>Shurikanehttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Trading&diff=3591240d:Trading2009-02-21T04:47:49Z<p>Shurikane: /* Trading cue colors */</p>
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<div>{{Building|name=Trade depot|key=D<br />
|job= <br />
1 of:<br />
* [[Broker]] noble<br />
* None (See description)<br />
|construction=<br />
3 of<br />
* [[Block]]<br />
* [[Metal bar]]<br />
* [[Stone]]<br />
* [[Wood]]<br />
|construction_job=<br />
* [[Architecture]]<br />
* and 1 of:<br />
** [[Metalsmithing]]<br />
** [[Masonry]]<br />
** [[Carpentry]]<br />
|purpose=<br />
Trade goods with other races.<br />
}}<br />
'''Trading''' in Dwarf Fortress first occurs in the first [[autumn]] after establishing your fortress, with the arrival of the [[dwarf|Dwarven]] [[Trading#Caravans|caravan]]. Trading is a good way to acquire resources that are not available or are rare in the local area. It also allows for more freedom in selecting starting gear, because items can always be obtained through trade later, e.g. one can drop the expensive [[anvil]] to bring 500 extra units of [[alcohol|booze]] or purchase additional skills for the expedition party. New players can [[Your_first_fortress#Trading|look here]] for advice on trading with the first caravan.<br />
<br />
== Trade Depot ==<br />
Building a '''Trade Depot''' ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}}) will allow you the opportunity to trade with caravans that arrive at your fortress. Trade depots can be created from almost any material, and construction requires the [[Architecture]] skill along with the appropriate craft labor ([[Carpentry]], [[Masonry]], or [[Metalsmithing]]). <br />
<br />
While it may be convenient to build a Trade Depot outside first, it is usually a good idea to move it inside or build fortifications around it to protect caravans and your goods from [[thief|thieves]] and [[goblin]]s.<br />
<br />
Hit {{K|q}} to bring up the building interaction mode, and then move your cursor over the Trade Depot to gain access to the following options.<br />
<br />
=== Move Goods to/from Depot ===<br />
{{K|g}}: This command becomes active when a caravan arrives on your map. Choosing items from this menu will mark them as [PENDING] and [[dwarves]] will begin moving them to the depot (all dwarves regardless of labor settings will move goods to the depot when necessary). Items that have been brought to the depot are ready for trade and will be marked as [TRADING]. Items nominated for trading will remain at the depot until the caravan leaves, or the [PENDING] / [TRADING] flag is cleared by choosing the item again. Once no longer required at the depot, items will be available for use or hauling to stockpiles as normal.<br />
<br />
=== No trader needed at depot or Trader requested at depot ===<br />
{{K|r}}: This requests a dwarf to come to the depot. To conduct trades with caravans, a trader must be present at the Trade Depot. Once requested, a dwarf will make their way to the depot, and remain there until released with this setting, or the dwarf decides to drink, sleep, or eat.<br />
<br />
=== Only broker may trade or Anyone may trade ===<br />
{{K|b}}: This setting determines who will perform the trade. If '''Only broker may trade''' is active, then only the [[Broker]] [[noble]] will respond to the trader request. This can become a problem when the broker is sleeping or otherwise occupied, but dwarves with low [[Broker skills]] will receive poorer deals when trading.<br />
<br />
=== Trade ===<br />
{{K|t}}: This option becomes available once the caravan and your trader are both at the depot. It begins trading.<br />
<br />
==Trading==<br />
{{:Trading/Flowchart}}<br />
After entering the trade menu, select the items to offer from the right, and the desired items from the left. All caravans have a weight limit which cannot be exceeded, and the allowed additional weight is displayed in the lower right corner. If the acting broker has at least Novice or better [[Appraisal]] skill, the value of all items will be displayed. Once the proposal is ready, press {{K|t}} to make an offer, but merchants will not agree unless they make adequate profit. Be sure to use '''trade''', not '''offer''' {{K|o}}, as this will make a gift of the selected items. The amount of acceptable profit is determined by the broker's [[Broker skills|skills]] and the merchant's mood, described below. Merchants may attempt to propose counteroffers if they do not accept the proposal, which can then be accepted, rejected, or further amended by the broker.<br />
<br />
A good rule of thumb for inexperienced brokers is to give merchants a 50% or better profit. For example, if the desired goods are worth 500☼, make sure their profit is at least 250☼ (which would make the total worth of the offered goods 750☼). This should ensure that the merchants are happy with the trading and that they accept the trade immediately without making ridiculous counteroffers. With more experienced brokers or pleased merchants, even marginally profitable trades can be successful, and counteroffers can be rejected safely, offering the same trade again.<br />
<br />
=== Trading cue colors ===<br />
<br />
* Items in brown have been created (or modified) by your fortress. They can be traded away or offered as a gift.<br />
* Items in white were created by another source. They can be traded, but if one of these items has been selected, the entire selection cannot be offered as a gift.<br />
* Items in purple are under a no-export mandate and should not be traded away unless exceptional circumstances (or masochism) push you to do this.<br />
* Items in green have just been gifted to the caravan and they will not trade it back.<br />
* Items in red have been seized from another caravan and cannot be traded as is; you will need to decorate them or turn them into other items for them to become "valid" trading items.<br />
<br />
=== Merchant mood ===<br />
If your broker has Novice or better [[Judge of Intent]] skill, there will be a line added below the merchant's dialogue describing the caravan's attitude. Their attitude rises with successful trades (especially if they get lots of profit) and falls when you propose deals they don't like. <br />
<br />
* (trader) seems ecstatic with the trading<br />
* (trader) seems very happy about the trading<br />
* (trader) seems pleased with the trading<br />
* (trader) seems willing to trade (Default, at least for humans)<br />
* (trader) seems to be rapidly losing patience<br />
* (trader) is not going to take much more of this<br />
* (trader) is unwilling to trade<br />
<br />
The happier you make a merchant, the less profit margin he will demand in a trade. If merchants reach the lowest level, no further trade will be possible, and they will immediately pack up and leave your depot. Since annoyed traders are more likely to reject deals, you should be generous in initial negotiations. Skilled negotiators seem less likely to offend traders with unsuccessful deals. <br />
<br />
=== Seizing items ===<br />
<br />
Pressing {{K|s}} from the trade menu will seize the selected items of the merchant's. If you seize goods from a caravan, the merchant will respond "Take what you want. I can't stop you." and then leave immediately without the seized goods. Items cannot be seized from the dwarven caravan, and other races will not buy stolen goods (marked in red) unless they are tricked into asking for them via counteroffer, or the items are "naturalized" by decoration or used to create other goods. Seizing goods will hurt diplomatic relations, but is not grounds for an automatic [[siege]].<br />
<br />
As a side note, if you remove your trade depot, all the caravan's items will drop to the ground, to be readily hauled away by your dwarves. This does not mark the item as stolen, and the caravan will leave.<br />
<br />
Another way to steal without marking as stolen is to forbid traders' goods. They will leave them in depot.<br />
<br />
Note that the civilization attached to a particular caravan will keep track of the value of items the caravan was carrying when they set out to trade, and they will compare this value with the value of items they return home with. Regardless of what method you use to confiscate items from a caravan, even if you came to possess the goods through no fault of your own (an [[ambush]] killed the caravaners, for example) the parent civilization may decide that you stole from them and send a [[siege]] instead of a caravan the following year. It is prudent to take measures to protect caravans visiting your lands!<br />
<br />
===Offering items===<br />
<br />
{{key|o}} You can also give away items, as gifts to the leaders of the [[civilization]] you are trading with. This presumably helps relations between yourself and the other faction. The exact effects are unknown but it is believed that offering goods increases the quantity and variety of trade goods brought by next year's caravan. Also the [[King]] may require offerings before his arrival.<br />
<br />
== Caravans ==<br />
Each friendly race will send a caravan once per year, but only if that race considers the fortress site accessible (as denoted on the embark screen). The exception is dwarves, who always arrive. Caravans appear to enter the map from a random direction which does not coincide with the relative direction of the originating [[civilization]], and they may appear from different directions or z-levels each year. Caravans may leave without trading if it takes too long to reach the trade depot, and they cannot use stairs. Caravans will embark on their journey exactly one month after their arrival, whether they have succeeded in reaching the depot or not.<br />
<br />
=== Wagons ===<br />
[[Image:Depot alley.png|thumb|right|A depot in the fortress, with a narrow, trapped accessway.]]<br />
[[Image:Depot accessible.png|thumb|right|Composite image of depot access screen. Strategically arranged walls and natural obstacles (boulders) force wagons to enter and exit the map immediately to the east of the depot.]]<br />
All races except elves will send [[wagon]]s with their caravans, which have a much greater capacity for bringing foreign imports and accepting dwarven exports. Unfortunately, wagons require paths that are three tiles wide to pass. Wagons may enter the map in a location different from merchants with pack [[animals]], if the point the animals entered was inaccessible to the wagons. If wagons are unable to find an open path to your trade depot (or if you have not built a depot at all), they will bypass your site and you will only be able to trade for what is available on the pack animals. <br />
<br />
Wagons cannot cross [[stair]]s or [[door]]s (even if the doors span an area ordinarily wide enough for the wagon to pass). Obstructing [[boulder]]s must be smoothed ( {{K|d}} - {{K|s}} ), and [[tree]]s must be cut down ( {{K|d}} - {{K|t}} ). [[Shrub]]s do not obstruct wagons, and neither do [[ramp]]s, [[bridge]]s, [[road]]s, or [[floor]] tiles. (However, ramps covered by a [[hatch]] do obstruct.) The impassable tiles of [[workshop]]s and other buildings will obstruct, but the passable tiles of those buildings will not. Any buildings which are normally passable, including [[restraint]]s and [[trap]]s, will not obstruct wagons either, nor will creatures, whether restrained or free.<br />
<br />
To keep trees from growing and blocking a path, you should build roads, bridges, or floor tiles over any [[soil]] tiles that make up part of the path. Ramps must be used to adjust [[z-level]] elevation.<br />
<br />
After a trade depot is built, you can use {{K|D}} to check wagon accessibility. The display is somewhat misleading: tiles marked in green mean a wagon can ''fit'' in that space, not that it can necessarily reach it from the edge of the map. Further, the green {{Raw Tile|W|{{COLOR:2:0:1}}|{{COLOR:2:0:0}}}}s only represent where the ''center'' of the wagon can fit -- so a three-tile wide path, which can fit a wagon, will only show up as one-tile wide line of {{Raw Tile|W|{{COLOR:2:0:1}}|{{COLOR:2:0:0}}}}s. When the route they would take goes over hills (ramps), it's hard to eye whether it is continuous all the way to the edge of the map, so be sure you see the words "depot accessible" on the depot access screen.<br />
<br />
As long as you have a three-tile wide path to the depot that reaches ''any'' edge of the map, wagons will be able to reach the depot. If there is only one path they can take, they will take that path. You can force them to enter and exit the map in an exact spot -- preferably very near your depot -- by erecting walls or digging channels so that all paths but the one you want them to take are blocked.<br />
<br />
=== Liaisons ===<br />
[[Liaison]]s may be sent with caravans to speak to important dwarves. They will allow you to choose the type of items that your fortress is interested in, and will focus on bringing more of that kind of item on the next caravan (however those items will also be more expensive). They will also present you with a list of the items they're willing to pay more for, which will be effective upon their next arrival.<br />
<br />
Trade agreements can be viewed at a later time through the Civilization menu ({{k|c}}). These trade agreements are cleared when a liason of the corresponding civilization enters the screen, so they are generally not accessible after the caravan has arrived.<br />
<br />
=== Races ===<br />
The following races send caravans.<br />
<br />
==== [[Dwarves]] ====<br />
The dwarven caravan:<br />
* arrives in [[Calendar|autumn]].<br />
* employs wagons to bring more goods.<br />
* typically carries [[food]], [[alcohol|booze]], [[leather]], and supplies. Dwarves alone may carry [[steel]] and steel goods.<br />
* tends to be well guarded.<br />
* sends a liaison who will speak with the [[Expedition leader]] (or [[Mayor]]) to negotiate prices.<br />
* is responsible for the number of immigrants received (when the caravan escapes alive).<br />
* will not cause sieges when repeatedly destroyed or lost.<br />
* is the only caravan to arrive during a fortress' first year.<br />
* always arrives regardless of embark location.<br />
* cannot have its goods seized from the trade menu.<br />
<br />
==== [[elf|Elves]] ====<br />
[[Image:Evil_elves.png|thumb|400px|A typical elven caravan.]]<br />
<br />
The elven caravan:<br />
* arrives in [[Calendar|spring]].<br />
* does not send wagons.<br />
* typically carries [[cloth]], [[rope]], various above ground [[plants]] and their byproducts, [[log]]s, [[wood]]en [[craft]]s & [[weapon]]s, large-sized clothing and [[armor]], and may carry tame [[creatures]].<br />
* carries more wood logs the smaller a fort's wood stockpile.<br />
* tends to be unguarded.<br />
* may send a diplomat who imposes a tree cutting quota.<br />
* does not accept some items in trade.<br />
<br />
Elven traders do not like to be offered any tree byproducts. Forbidden items include{{ver|0.28.181.40d}}: <br />
<br />
* [[Wood]]en items, and items derived from wood (including [[tower-cap]] logs), such as [[charcoal]] and [[pearlash]]<br />
* Clear and crystal [[glass]] (because [[pearlash]] is used in their creation)<br />
* Items [[decoration|decorated]] with any of the above materials<br />
* [[Obsidian]] shortswords (since they have wooden handles)<br />
* [[Soap]] (made with [[ash]])<br />
<br />
Offering or trading forbidden items will cause the caravan to refuse to trade any more that season and will leave immediately. Additionally you will be called uncouth, crude, and barbaric for suggesting it. Tragic incidence can befall name callers which if repeated can lead to [[siege|interesting times]] and even great [[fun]]!<br />
<br />
However, [[stone]] and [[metal]] items, even when [[charcoal]] is used in production, are acceptable. Items made from [[silk]] are acceptable, as are all non-wooden plant-derived products such as [[cloth]] and [[thread]]. Different from previous versions, items made of bone and shell are acceptable. You can also transport your goods to the [[trade depot]] in a wooden [[bin]], as long as you do not try to sell the bin. Living animals are acceptable, as long as the [[cage]] or [[trap]] is not made of [[wood]].<br />
<br />
Be especially careful with reselling items from other caravans, as decorated items made out of a non-living material may include decorative materials that were made of living materials. All items that elven caravans sell are also unacceptable to sell back to elves, as the dwarves have no means of proving that they were made in an "elf kosher" way &mdash; and all dwarves know that elves have terrible memory.<br />
<br />
==== [[Human]]s ====<br />
The human caravan:<br />
* arrives in [[Calendar|summer]].<br />
* employs wagons to bring more goods.<br />
* typically carries a very large quantity and variety of goods.<br />
* tends to be moderately guarded.<br />
* sends a liaison who will speak with the broker to negotiate prices.<br />
<br />
==== [[Goblin]]s ====<br />
A goblin caravan may arrive if your civilization is at peace with the goblins.<br />
<br />
The goblin caravan:<br />
*does not send wagons<br />
*tends to be unguarded<br />
*brings mostly food and cloth<br />
*does not send a liaison or a guild representative<br />
*does not make import/export agreements<br />
<br />
=== Destruction ===<br />
If caravans are destroyed (intentionally or unintentionally), the items may remain for use. Traders caught in a [[cave-in]] will flee as if they were attacked but will leave all the items dropped by the caravan behind. Pack animals carrying items are affected just like a normal tamed [[mule]] and must be killed in the cave-in for them to drop items on the ground. It is however much more likely that the pack animal(s) will only be stunned or rendered unconscious and flee shortly after recovering from the hit. Wagons will collapse if caught in a cave-in, leaving all that it was carrying on the ground as a result. Wagons can also be destroyed by [[ocean]] waves coming up onto the shore if you have settled in the appropriate area. The only difference between collapsing under waves or a cave-in is a higher probably of recovering items if the wagon is destroyed by a wave.<br />
<br />
Repeated caravan destruction (intentional or unintentional) will strain diplomatic relations and may result in a [[siege]].</div>Shurikanehttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Bridge&diff=1274040d:Bridge2009-01-12T14:18:09Z<p>Shurikane: Added small finding about megabeasts.</p>
<hr />
<div>A '''bridge''' is a building (not a construction) that spans multiple tiles allowing [[dwarves]] to go across [[water]], [[magma]], and other obstructions. Bridges are built from the {{k|b}}uild menu, under brid{{k|g}}e.<br />
<br />
A bridge defaults to a single tile in size. You'll need to change the size to suit your needs; the bridge's dimensions can be set anywhere up to a square 10 tile on a side. A bridge will require both [[architecture]] and [[masonry]] (or [[carpentry]] or [[metalsmithing]] if [[wood]] or [[metal]] is used) to complete. The material required for a bridge is less than the material required for building an equivalent area of [[floor]] tiles, and when a bridge is deconstructed the materials are deposited on the ground next to where the bridge stood rather than falling down into the open space it spanned.<br />
<br />
Unlike raising bridges, which require an area of solid ground, retractable bridges can be built using existing bridges as their sole means of support.<br />
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== Drawbridges and retracting bridges ==<br />
<br />
A bridge can be connected to a [[lever]] or [[pressure plate]] to become a drawbridge or retracting bridge. When the lever is pulled, they will raise or retract in a direction specified at construction. The direction that a bridge raises can be slightly confusing: if a drawbridge raises to the left, then it forms a wall on the left side when raised. A drawbridge that raises requires a [[floor]] underneath the side towards which it will raise (on the tiles where the "[[wall]]" will form when raised); remember to take this into account when digging.<br />
<br />
A drawbridge, when raised or lowered, will crush anything standing on the tile that becomes a wall and anything that is standing where the drawbridge exists when lowered, respectively. This has earned it the name ''[[Dwarven_Atom_Smasher|dwarven atom-smasher]]''. Some players may consider the crushing power of the drawbridge to be an [[exploit]]&mdash;the only units that survive the smash are [[megabeast]]s, [[demon]]s, and the ultra-fearsome [[caravan|wagon]]. Megabeasts will also prevent a retracting drawbridge from operating while they stand on it.<br />
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Anything standing on a drawbridge when it raises will be flung anywhere from zero to one Z levels upward and up to 10 units in any other direction. This applies to all items and units{{verify}}, including flying [[creature]]s who happen to be on the same tile as part of the bridge at the time. The creatures will usually come out unconscious from the fling, and flying creatures may drop out of the sky.{{verify}} (To see what happens during a fling, view the [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-507 Stone Fling] [http://mkv25.net/dfma/ DFMA] movie.)<br />
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A retracting bridge is less vicious; when retracted, any object or creature on the bridge will plummet if there is a pit beneath. When extended, the bridge causes no harm to anyone in its path.<br />
<br />
The delay between the time a [[lever]] is pulled and the time a connected bridge changes state is 100 steps.<br />
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[[Category:Constructions]]<br />
[[Category:Buildings]]</div>Shurikanehttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Bridge&diff=3830440d Talk:Bridge2009-01-11T00:13:05Z<p>Shurikane: /* Megabeasts break bridges--Shurikane 11:02, 10 January 2009 (EST) even without atomsmashing? */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Fluids vs bridges==<br />
Does a raised bridge prevent the flow of fluids? Guess I'll experiment and see if I can answer my own question. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 21:21, 29 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:Yes. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:55, 1 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==picture: south-raising drawbridge==<br />
Here's a picture of a bridge that raises South, to clear up any confusion over which direction bridges raise. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 18:03, 27 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
{{qd|cols=8<br />
|╔|═|╗|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
|╚|═|╝|.|╞|═|╡|.<br />
|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.}}<br />
<br />
== Items... ==<br />
<br />
When a creature is crushed by a bridge, what happens to the items they had?--[[User:Lordmick134|Lordmick134]]<br />
<br />
:When the bridge lowers, it completely ans permanently destroys anything it crashes on. So, there will be absolutely nothing under bridge, when it raises back.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 03:29, 4 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Not true! I had trapped a goblin inside a room with a bridge in it, and set the lever connected to the bridge to be repeatedly pulled. The goblin was stunned at most.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 09:37, 16 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::The goblin was likely ''flung'' from the bridge after stepping onto the extended bridge which then raised with the goblin still on it. Crushing is definitely an irrevocable and utter destruction. --[[User:JT|JT]] 16:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Channeling ==<br />
<br />
Checked the [[channel]]ing article, nothing there, either. I have a bridge that raises to the right to form a wall, part of my outer defensive perimeter. I was digging a channel around the fortification wall and wanted to channel under the bridge. I raised the bridge ... I cannot channel. It never creates the flashy 'this is gonna be channeled' designation anywhere where the bridge could lay over. I can channel any where else. I can also remove the bridge, channel what I want, and replace the bridge just fine. What gives? Is this a known bug? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 02:35, 29 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:As far as I know you can't dig on constructions. When the bridge is raised it is still considered to be constructed there. (or something like that) I had the same problem with some retracting bridges. To fix it I just removed the bridges and dug the channels, and then rebuilt them. --[[User:Lotus|Lotus]] 10:13 (CST) June 11, 2008<br />
<br />
== Bridges as a temporary wall ==<br />
<br />
I want to build a wall by pulling a lever, to block off a tunnel three squares wide.<br />
It is a mine tunnel with no channel above it.<br />
<br />
How long should the bridge be?<br />
<br />
It looks like this:<br />
<div style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%"><nowiki><br />
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ò▒▒▒<br />
.........╥.........<br />
.........║.........<br />
.........╨.........<br />
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒<br />
</nowiki></div><br />
<br />
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Well, you have to be careful. Don't forget, by raising a bridge, you can potentially obliterate your dwarves in the process. So try not to make it too wide. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:41, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:My question is, if I make it too long will it smash into the roof or anything?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::As far as I know of, it won't smash into the roof. The only concern is that if the bridge is too long, a dwarf may get accidently crushed. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:14, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Buildings that span multiple/variable z-levels are, at the current time, not possible. So, just build a 1x3 bridge, set it to raise west or east, and you have a wall! A toggleable wall! --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::I'd suggest doing a 2x bridge, as you'll have to track down the lever anytime you're curious as to whether the bridge is up or down, as a 1x or x1 bridge looks the same raised or lowered when raised on it's short axis. (e.g. the bridge above would look the same raised or lowered.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:59, 18 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Retractable/drawbridge ==<br />
<br />
How can you specify which type of bridge you want to build? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:45, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:When you go to place a bridge, by default it retracts. If you press wadxs you change the direction it raises: w = north, a= west, d=east, x=south, s=retracts. I don't know how to set the direction it retracts though.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::So if it retracts, it creates an impassable wall? -[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:15, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::No, it disappears. If it raises, it creates an impassable wall, whose direction is the same as the raise direction. Try it out.<br />
:::And, Garrie, it isn't possible to set retract direction since there is no such thing. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::Well I guess it doesn't really matter which way it retracts... although if a bridge is built outward from a cliff running east-west out to the chasm which is to the north then obviously the bridge retracts back to the edge it is anchored at (it can hardly retract back into mid-air...).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 23:22, 6 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Oh, really? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:32, 6 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::::well I guess applying common sense to DF might not be the best idea... but common sense would [bold]suggest [/bold] the bridge retracts back to where it was built from.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:03, 7 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::We don't use BBcode here. I don't think that even is BBcode, but it is in that style. To make '''bold text''', type <code><nowiki>'''bold text'''</nowiki></code>.<br />
:::::::And you're right that applying common sense to DF doesn't work. Even the least of peasants can carry thousands of pounds pebbles in a backpack. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:06, 7 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Bridge-on-bridge action ==<br />
<br />
I've just added a note about retractable bridges being able to be built using existing bridges as support. However I'm currently unable to test what happens when an intermediary bridge is retracted or raised (I have no stone for mechanisms!). I'm assuming that any bridges relying on the retracted/raised bridge for support will collapse, but it should be tested (and noted), if someone else has the time and inclination! [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 12:04, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: I can confirm that when the first bridge is retracted the second one deconstructs. And also if you choose to do your testing using extreme cliffs and "accidently" make 6 of your 7 dwarves stand on the second bridge then they will die a horrible death after falling 18 stories. --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 16:54, 16 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::What if you raise both of the bridges at the same time? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:48, 17 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:::The same thing happens, the second bridge deconstructs again --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 13:48, 22 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::I attempted this quite some time ago, I think. I had something like ten bridges in a row built off a cliff, and retracted them all at once with one lever. All but the first one (which was connected to the cliff) shattered into stones instantly. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:29, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== lockdown system ==<br />
<br />
in one of my old forts i had a setup so if the opponent got near my bridges a lever would be pulled and the opponents would fall into the lava with a godlike imp in it, it would use multiple bridges however and i would have to rebuild atleast 1, it was sort of like a tesselation of crosses<br />
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== Flying Bridge ==<br />
Build stairs up. Build stairs down atop it. Build a retracting bridge extending into open air from the downstairs. Link the retracting bridge to a lever. Pull the lever to retract the bridge. Deconstruct the down stairs. Deconstruct the up stairs. Pull the lever. Remove the lever. Bridge flies. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 11:38, 18 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Shame this can't be used to build eg. twisty retractable catwalks due to the above confirmations in Bridge-on-bridge action. :/ --[[User:Heron|Heron]] 09:46, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
::You could probably get something similar by just having occasional pillars sticking up, constructed by building towers of stairs, building a wall adjacent, then deconstructing the stairs. If you have each bridge anchored to one pillar, you ought to be able to get many retractable bridges in a sequence. --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 12:08, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::More testing. Retracted bridges never deconstruct. Make a chain as long as you like by keeping them all retracted until scaffolding is removed. Un-retracting bridges never deconstuct nor cause deconstruction. To make a path of multiple flying bridges build a scaffold for the first bridge, retract it, deconstruct the scaffold, build the second scaffold, retract that bridge, deconstruct that scaffold, and so forth. You can then unretract all bridges in any order and they'll all stay up. Retracting them again in any order caused them to fall. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 09:00, 2 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Stockpiles under bridges ==<br />
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I tried to make a refuse stockpile with a drawbridge over top, and I couldn't place the stockpile where the bridge would lower onto. Can anyone else confirm this for the new version? [[User:Falcondude|Falcondude]] 11:05, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Yeah, that won't work. If you are trying to make a garbage compactor, make a ledge and designate a garbage dump with (i) that will drop the items where the bridge will close.[[User:Trevlyn13|Trevlyn13]]<br />
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== Drawbridge vs colossus ==<br />
<br />
Yesterday a bronze colossus got trapped between my 2 moats, right under the drawbridge. It was too close to the catapults so that the operators wouldn't fire them, so I tried to crush it with the bridge.<br />
My bridge broke instead.<br />
(later I killed it by shooting hundreds of arrows)<br />
If anyone could replicate this, and also experiment with other megabeasts....<br />
(actually I made this account to tell people about this)<br />
[[User:nautilusfossil|nautilusfossil]]<br />
:As far as I know, Dwarven Atom Crushers™ break on megabeasts and demons. Cage Traps are the way to go for megabeasts, but demons are immune against them.<br />
:I don't know about semi-megabeasts considering bridge-breaking. [[User:MC Dirty|MC Dirty]] 18:17, 19 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Dwarves negative thoughts regarding crushed friends ==<br />
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Dwarves respond to friends or family members being crushed by a drawbridge as if they'd been killed & then not buried: "He was forced to endure the decay of a sibling lately. He lost a sibling to tragedy recently." (I'm certain this was due to the drawbridge, as all the siblings *except* the one that was crushed had these negative thoughts. Nobody else in the family had been killed by anything yet.) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 14:49, 2 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Melty mechanisms... redux? ==<br />
<br />
Curiosity kills my dwarves - I'm not wasting the time to do this myself. Will mechanisms melt out of bridges that are submerged in magma? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:31, 28 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I have no idea, this is a good question. While writing a reply of my thoughts I kept re-thinking some things. If Magma passes over the bridge I'm pretty certain that the mechanism will act like a flood gate's. It will not melt away as long as you don't raise the bridge. If you do raise the bridge, the mechanism will melt away and the bridge could do a number of things. Before I keep typing about what I think will/could happen, I'm just going to go ahead and pass on a wall of text. [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 1844, 28 September 2008 (PST)<br />
::But fluids cannot enter the tile of a raised bridge, whereas they can enter the tile of a lowered bridge. In this way, a raised bridge would be analogous to a _closed_ floodgate, and a lowered bridge to an _open_ one. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 21:51, 25 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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== Bridges and wagons? ==<br />
<br />
Is is possible for wagons to drive over bridges? I would assume so, but I don't want to get hasty. --[[User:W-dueck|w-dueck]] 23:50, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:yes, anything can pass over them. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 00:29, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:: Okay, thanks. Now that the mean kobolds can't escape when they steal my stuff, I am free to bludgeon them with random objects! --[[User:W-dueck|w-dueck]] 18:39, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:::You have to spot them first, though. Put war dogs on restraints in a recessed area that leads to the trade depot.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
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== Indestructible Caravan ==<br />
I needed to test out my whammer slammer bammer on <em>something</em> but no goblins volunteered for so long I was forced to attack the dwarven caravan instead. The mighty bridge swung down upon the lone wagon and was riven like a banana dipped in liquid nitrogen, leaving the wagon unscathed. If we could breed and train war wagons we'd rule the world. The 3-tile-wide parts of it anyway. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:55, 9 December 2008 (EST)<br />
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:But a single cave swallowman can scuttle an entire wagon in two milliseconds. Maybe wagons count as a megabeast? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:00, 9 December 2008 (EST)<br />
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== Megabeasts break bridges even without atomsmashing? ==<br />
<br />
Situation: I captured a Titan and pitted it onto a drawbridge from a platform a Z-level above. The drawbridge is retractable and linked to a level. Logically, pulling the level will make the drawbridge retract and the Titan will plummet to his death.<br />
<br />
But it didn't happen. The bridge refuses to budge. I haven't got a message about it whatsoever.<br />
<br />
Is it possible for a Titan to break ''any'' drawbridge operation whatsoever no matter the end result?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:34, 6 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:<s>Yes. A bridge is a non-construction building. Therefore entities with [BUILDINGDESTROYER] can nuke them.</s> I doubt it. Did you find any mechanisms lying around, like next to the lever? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:02, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Nothing unusual to report. As far as I see, everything should be functioning normally. The Titan, by the way, does not move around. He stays right where I dropped him... --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 12:25, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br />
::Update: here's what I found out. A megabeast standing on a bridge will prevent said bridge from functioning. In my case, this means a retracting bridge will refuse to retreact unless the megabeast steps off or dies. --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 11:02, 10 January 2009 (EST)</div>Shurikanehttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Bridge&diff=3830340d Talk:Bridge2009-01-10T16:02:07Z<p>Shurikane: /* Megabeasts break bridges even without atomsmashing? */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Fluids vs bridges==<br />
Does a raised bridge prevent the flow of fluids? Guess I'll experiment and see if I can answer my own question. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 21:21, 29 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:Yes. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:55, 1 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==picture: south-raising drawbridge==<br />
Here's a picture of a bridge that raises South, to clear up any confusion over which direction bridges raise. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 18:03, 27 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
{{qd|cols=8<br />
|╔|═|╗|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
|╚|═|╝|.|╞|═|╡|.<br />
|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.}}<br />
<br />
== Items... ==<br />
<br />
When a creature is crushed by a bridge, what happens to the items they had?--[[User:Lordmick134|Lordmick134]]<br />
<br />
:When the bridge lowers, it completely ans permanently destroys anything it crashes on. So, there will be absolutely nothing under bridge, when it raises back.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 03:29, 4 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Not true! I had trapped a goblin inside a room with a bridge in it, and set the lever connected to the bridge to be repeatedly pulled. The goblin was stunned at most.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 09:37, 16 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::The goblin was likely ''flung'' from the bridge after stepping onto the extended bridge which then raised with the goblin still on it. Crushing is definitely an irrevocable and utter destruction. --[[User:JT|JT]] 16:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Channeling ==<br />
<br />
Checked the [[channel]]ing article, nothing there, either. I have a bridge that raises to the right to form a wall, part of my outer defensive perimeter. I was digging a channel around the fortification wall and wanted to channel under the bridge. I raised the bridge ... I cannot channel. It never creates the flashy 'this is gonna be channeled' designation anywhere where the bridge could lay over. I can channel any where else. I can also remove the bridge, channel what I want, and replace the bridge just fine. What gives? Is this a known bug? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 02:35, 29 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:As far as I know you can't dig on constructions. When the bridge is raised it is still considered to be constructed there. (or something like that) I had the same problem with some retracting bridges. To fix it I just removed the bridges and dug the channels, and then rebuilt them. --[[User:Lotus|Lotus]] 10:13 (CST) June 11, 2008<br />
<br />
== Bridges as a temporary wall ==<br />
<br />
I want to build a wall by pulling a lever, to block off a tunnel three squares wide.<br />
It is a mine tunnel with no channel above it.<br />
<br />
How long should the bridge be?<br />
<br />
It looks like this:<br />
<div style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%"><nowiki><br />
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ò▒▒▒<br />
.........╥.........<br />
.........║.........<br />
.........╨.........<br />
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒<br />
</nowiki></div><br />
<br />
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Well, you have to be careful. Don't forget, by raising a bridge, you can potentially obliterate your dwarves in the process. So try not to make it too wide. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:41, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:My question is, if I make it too long will it smash into the roof or anything?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::As far as I know of, it won't smash into the roof. The only concern is that if the bridge is too long, a dwarf may get accidently crushed. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:14, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Buildings that span multiple/variable z-levels are, at the current time, not possible. So, just build a 1x3 bridge, set it to raise west or east, and you have a wall! A toggleable wall! --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::I'd suggest doing a 2x bridge, as you'll have to track down the lever anytime you're curious as to whether the bridge is up or down, as a 1x or x1 bridge looks the same raised or lowered when raised on it's short axis. (e.g. the bridge above would look the same raised or lowered.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:59, 18 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Retractable/drawbridge ==<br />
<br />
How can you specify which type of bridge you want to build? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:45, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:When you go to place a bridge, by default it retracts. If you press wadxs you change the direction it raises: w = north, a= west, d=east, x=south, s=retracts. I don't know how to set the direction it retracts though.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::So if it retracts, it creates an impassable wall? -[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:15, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::No, it disappears. If it raises, it creates an impassable wall, whose direction is the same as the raise direction. Try it out.<br />
:::And, Garrie, it isn't possible to set retract direction since there is no such thing. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::Well I guess it doesn't really matter which way it retracts... although if a bridge is built outward from a cliff running east-west out to the chasm which is to the north then obviously the bridge retracts back to the edge it is anchored at (it can hardly retract back into mid-air...).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 23:22, 6 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Oh, really? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:32, 6 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::::well I guess applying common sense to DF might not be the best idea... but common sense would [bold]suggest [/bold] the bridge retracts back to where it was built from.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:03, 7 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::We don't use BBcode here. I don't think that even is BBcode, but it is in that style. To make '''bold text''', type <code><nowiki>'''bold text'''</nowiki></code>.<br />
:::::::And you're right that applying common sense to DF doesn't work. Even the least of peasants can carry thousands of pounds pebbles in a backpack. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:06, 7 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Bridge-on-bridge action ==<br />
<br />
I've just added a note about retractable bridges being able to be built using existing bridges as support. However I'm currently unable to test what happens when an intermediary bridge is retracted or raised (I have no stone for mechanisms!). I'm assuming that any bridges relying on the retracted/raised bridge for support will collapse, but it should be tested (and noted), if someone else has the time and inclination! [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 12:04, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: I can confirm that when the first bridge is retracted the second one deconstructs. And also if you choose to do your testing using extreme cliffs and "accidently" make 6 of your 7 dwarves stand on the second bridge then they will die a horrible death after falling 18 stories. --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 16:54, 16 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::What if you raise both of the bridges at the same time? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:48, 17 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::The same thing happens, the second bridge deconstructs again --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 13:48, 22 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::I attempted this quite some time ago, I think. I had something like ten bridges in a row built off a cliff, and retracted them all at once with one lever. All but the first one (which was connected to the cliff) shattered into stones instantly. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:29, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== lockdown system ==<br />
<br />
in one of my old forts i had a setup so if the opponent got near my bridges a lever would be pulled and the opponents would fall into the lava with a godlike imp in it, it would use multiple bridges however and i would have to rebuild atleast 1, it was sort of like a tesselation of crosses<br />
<br />
== Flying Bridge ==<br />
Build stairs up. Build stairs down atop it. Build a retracting bridge extending into open air from the downstairs. Link the retracting bridge to a lever. Pull the lever to retract the bridge. Deconstruct the down stairs. Deconstruct the up stairs. Pull the lever. Remove the lever. Bridge flies. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 11:38, 18 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Shame this can't be used to build eg. twisty retractable catwalks due to the above confirmations in Bridge-on-bridge action. :/ --[[User:Heron|Heron]] 09:46, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
::You could probably get something similar by just having occasional pillars sticking up, constructed by building towers of stairs, building a wall adjacent, then deconstructing the stairs. If you have each bridge anchored to one pillar, you ought to be able to get many retractable bridges in a sequence. --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 12:08, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::More testing. Retracted bridges never deconstruct. Make a chain as long as you like by keeping them all retracted until scaffolding is removed. Un-retracting bridges never deconstuct nor cause deconstruction. To make a path of multiple flying bridges build a scaffold for the first bridge, retract it, deconstruct the scaffold, build the second scaffold, retract that bridge, deconstruct that scaffold, and so forth. You can then unretract all bridges in any order and they'll all stay up. Retracting them again in any order caused them to fall. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 09:00, 2 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Stockpiles under bridges ==<br />
<br />
I tried to make a refuse stockpile with a drawbridge over top, and I couldn't place the stockpile where the bridge would lower onto. Can anyone else confirm this for the new version? [[User:Falcondude|Falcondude]] 11:05, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Yeah, that won't work. If you are trying to make a garbage compactor, make a ledge and designate a garbage dump with (i) that will drop the items where the bridge will close.[[User:Trevlyn13|Trevlyn13]]<br />
<br />
== Drawbridge vs colossus ==<br />
<br />
Yesterday a bronze colossus got trapped between my 2 moats, right under the drawbridge. It was too close to the catapults so that the operators wouldn't fire them, so I tried to crush it with the bridge.<br />
My bridge broke instead.<br />
(later I killed it by shooting hundreds of arrows)<br />
If anyone could replicate this, and also experiment with other megabeasts....<br />
(actually I made this account to tell people about this)<br />
[[User:nautilusfossil|nautilusfossil]]<br />
:As far as I know, Dwarven Atom Crushers™ break on megabeasts and demons. Cage Traps are the way to go for megabeasts, but demons are immune against them.<br />
:I don't know about semi-megabeasts considering bridge-breaking. [[User:MC Dirty|MC Dirty]] 18:17, 19 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Dwarves negative thoughts regarding crushed friends ==<br />
<br />
Dwarves respond to friends or family members being crushed by a drawbridge as if they'd been killed & then not buried: "He was forced to endure the decay of a sibling lately. He lost a sibling to tragedy recently." (I'm certain this was due to the drawbridge, as all the siblings *except* the one that was crushed had these negative thoughts. Nobody else in the family had been killed by anything yet.) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 14:49, 2 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Melty mechanisms... redux? ==<br />
<br />
Curiosity kills my dwarves - I'm not wasting the time to do this myself. Will mechanisms melt out of bridges that are submerged in magma? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:31, 28 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I have no idea, this is a good question. While writing a reply of my thoughts I kept re-thinking some things. If Magma passes over the bridge I'm pretty certain that the mechanism will act like a flood gate's. It will not melt away as long as you don't raise the bridge. If you do raise the bridge, the mechanism will melt away and the bridge could do a number of things. Before I keep typing about what I think will/could happen, I'm just going to go ahead and pass on a wall of text. [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 1844, 28 September 2008 (PST)<br />
::But fluids cannot enter the tile of a raised bridge, whereas they can enter the tile of a lowered bridge. In this way, a raised bridge would be analogous to a _closed_ floodgate, and a lowered bridge to an _open_ one. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 21:51, 25 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Bridges and wagons? ==<br />
<br />
Is is possible for wagons to drive over bridges? I would assume so, but I don't want to get hasty. --[[User:W-dueck|w-dueck]] 23:50, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:yes, anything can pass over them. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 00:29, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:: Okay, thanks. Now that the mean kobolds can't escape when they steal my stuff, I am free to bludgeon them with random objects! --[[User:W-dueck|w-dueck]] 18:39, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:::You have to spot them first, though. Put war dogs on restraints in a recessed area that leads to the trade depot.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Indestructible Caravan ==<br />
I needed to test out my whammer slammer bammer on <em>something</em> but no goblins volunteered for so long I was forced to attack the dwarven caravan instead. The mighty bridge swung down upon the lone wagon and was riven like a banana dipped in liquid nitrogen, leaving the wagon unscathed. If we could breed and train war wagons we'd rule the world. The 3-tile-wide parts of it anyway. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:55, 9 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:But a single cave swallowman can scuttle an entire wagon in two milliseconds. Maybe wagons count as a megabeast? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:00, 9 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Megabeasts break bridges--[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 11:02, 10 January 2009 (EST) even without atomsmashing? ==<br />
<br />
Situation: I captured a Titan and pitted it onto a drawbridge from a platform a Z-level above. The drawbridge is retractable and linked to a level. Logically, pulling the level will make the drawbridge retract and the Titan will plummet to his death.<br />
<br />
But it didn't happen. The bridge refuses to budge. I haven't got a message about it whatsoever.<br />
<br />
Is it possible for a Titan to break ''any'' drawbridge operation whatsoever no matter the end result?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:34, 6 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:<s>Yes. A bridge is a non-construction building. Therefore entities with [BUILDINGDESTROYER] can nuke them.</s> I doubt it. Did you find any mechanisms lying around, like next to the lever? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:02, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Nothing unusual to report. As far as I see, everything should be functioning normally. The Titan, by the way, does not move around. He stays right where I dropped him... --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 12:25, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br />
::Update: here's what I found out. A megabeast standing on a bridge will prevent said bridge from functioning. In my case, this means a retracting bridge will refuse to retreact unless the megabeast steps off or dies. --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 11:02, 10 January 2009 (EST)</div>Shurikanehttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Bridge&diff=3830240d Talk:Bridge2009-01-08T03:16:39Z<p>Shurikane: /* Megabeasts break bridges even without atomsmashing? */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Fluids vs bridges==<br />
Does a raised bridge prevent the flow of fluids? Guess I'll experiment and see if I can answer my own question. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 21:21, 29 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:Yes. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:55, 1 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==picture: south-raising drawbridge==<br />
Here's a picture of a bridge that raises South, to clear up any confusion over which direction bridges raise. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 18:03, 27 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
{{qd|cols=8<br />
|╔|═|╗|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
|╚|═|╝|.|╞|═|╡|.<br />
|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.}}<br />
<br />
== Items... ==<br />
<br />
When a creature is crushed by a bridge, what happens to the items they had?--[[User:Lordmick134|Lordmick134]]<br />
<br />
:When the bridge lowers, it completely ans permanently destroys anything it crashes on. So, there will be absolutely nothing under bridge, when it raises back.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 03:29, 4 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Not true! I had trapped a goblin inside a room with a bridge in it, and set the lever connected to the bridge to be repeatedly pulled. The goblin was stunned at most.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 09:37, 16 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::The goblin was likely ''flung'' from the bridge after stepping onto the extended bridge which then raised with the goblin still on it. Crushing is definitely an irrevocable and utter destruction. --[[User:JT|JT]] 16:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Channeling ==<br />
<br />
Checked the [[channel]]ing article, nothing there, either. I have a bridge that raises to the right to form a wall, part of my outer defensive perimeter. I was digging a channel around the fortification wall and wanted to channel under the bridge. I raised the bridge ... I cannot channel. It never creates the flashy 'this is gonna be channeled' designation anywhere where the bridge could lay over. I can channel any where else. I can also remove the bridge, channel what I want, and replace the bridge just fine. What gives? Is this a known bug? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 02:35, 29 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:As far as I know you can't dig on constructions. When the bridge is raised it is still considered to be constructed there. (or something like that) I had the same problem with some retracting bridges. To fix it I just removed the bridges and dug the channels, and then rebuilt them. --[[User:Lotus|Lotus]] 10:13 (CST) June 11, 2008<br />
<br />
== Bridges as a temporary wall ==<br />
<br />
I want to build a wall by pulling a lever, to block off a tunnel three squares wide.<br />
It is a mine tunnel with no channel above it.<br />
<br />
How long should the bridge be?<br />
<br />
It looks like this:<br />
<div style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%"><nowiki><br />
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ò▒▒▒<br />
.........╥.........<br />
.........║.........<br />
.........╨.........<br />
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒<br />
</nowiki></div><br />
<br />
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Well, you have to be careful. Don't forget, by raising a bridge, you can potentially obliterate your dwarves in the process. So try not to make it too wide. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:41, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:My question is, if I make it too long will it smash into the roof or anything?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::As far as I know of, it won't smash into the roof. The only concern is that if the bridge is too long, a dwarf may get accidently crushed. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:14, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Buildings that span multiple/variable z-levels are, at the current time, not possible. So, just build a 1x3 bridge, set it to raise west or east, and you have a wall! A toggleable wall! --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::I'd suggest doing a 2x bridge, as you'll have to track down the lever anytime you're curious as to whether the bridge is up or down, as a 1x or x1 bridge looks the same raised or lowered when raised on it's short axis. (e.g. the bridge above would look the same raised or lowered.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:59, 18 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Retractable/drawbridge ==<br />
<br />
How can you specify which type of bridge you want to build? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:45, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:When you go to place a bridge, by default it retracts. If you press wadxs you change the direction it raises: w = north, a= west, d=east, x=south, s=retracts. I don't know how to set the direction it retracts though.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::So if it retracts, it creates an impassable wall? -[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:15, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::No, it disappears. If it raises, it creates an impassable wall, whose direction is the same as the raise direction. Try it out.<br />
:::And, Garrie, it isn't possible to set retract direction since there is no such thing. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::Well I guess it doesn't really matter which way it retracts... although if a bridge is built outward from a cliff running east-west out to the chasm which is to the north then obviously the bridge retracts back to the edge it is anchored at (it can hardly retract back into mid-air...).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 23:22, 6 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Oh, really? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:32, 6 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::::well I guess applying common sense to DF might not be the best idea... but common sense would [bold]suggest [/bold] the bridge retracts back to where it was built from.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:03, 7 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::We don't use BBcode here. I don't think that even is BBcode, but it is in that style. To make '''bold text''', type <code><nowiki>'''bold text'''</nowiki></code>.<br />
:::::::And you're right that applying common sense to DF doesn't work. Even the least of peasants can carry thousands of pounds pebbles in a backpack. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:06, 7 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Bridge-on-bridge action ==<br />
<br />
I've just added a note about retractable bridges being able to be built using existing bridges as support. However I'm currently unable to test what happens when an intermediary bridge is retracted or raised (I have no stone for mechanisms!). I'm assuming that any bridges relying on the retracted/raised bridge for support will collapse, but it should be tested (and noted), if someone else has the time and inclination! [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 12:04, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: I can confirm that when the first bridge is retracted the second one deconstructs. And also if you choose to do your testing using extreme cliffs and "accidently" make 6 of your 7 dwarves stand on the second bridge then they will die a horrible death after falling 18 stories. --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 16:54, 16 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::What if you raise both of the bridges at the same time? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:48, 17 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::The same thing happens, the second bridge deconstructs again --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 13:48, 22 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::I attempted this quite some time ago, I think. I had something like ten bridges in a row built off a cliff, and retracted them all at once with one lever. All but the first one (which was connected to the cliff) shattered into stones instantly. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:29, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== lockdown system ==<br />
<br />
in one of my old forts i had a setup so if the opponent got near my bridges a lever would be pulled and the opponents would fall into the lava with a godlike imp in it, it would use multiple bridges however and i would have to rebuild atleast 1, it was sort of like a tesselation of crosses<br />
<br />
== Flying Bridge ==<br />
Build stairs up. Build stairs down atop it. Build a retracting bridge extending into open air from the downstairs. Link the retracting bridge to a lever. Pull the lever to retract the bridge. Deconstruct the down stairs. Deconstruct the up stairs. Pull the lever. Remove the lever. Bridge flies. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 11:38, 18 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Shame this can't be used to build eg. twisty retractable catwalks due to the above confirmations in Bridge-on-bridge action. :/ --[[User:Heron|Heron]] 09:46, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
::You could probably get something similar by just having occasional pillars sticking up, constructed by building towers of stairs, building a wall adjacent, then deconstructing the stairs. If you have each bridge anchored to one pillar, you ought to be able to get many retractable bridges in a sequence. --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 12:08, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::More testing. Retracted bridges never deconstruct. Make a chain as long as you like by keeping them all retracted until scaffolding is removed. Un-retracting bridges never deconstuct nor cause deconstruction. To make a path of multiple flying bridges build a scaffold for the first bridge, retract it, deconstruct the scaffold, build the second scaffold, retract that bridge, deconstruct that scaffold, and so forth. You can then unretract all bridges in any order and they'll all stay up. Retracting them again in any order caused them to fall. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 09:00, 2 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Stockpiles under bridges ==<br />
<br />
I tried to make a refuse stockpile with a drawbridge over top, and I couldn't place the stockpile where the bridge would lower onto. Can anyone else confirm this for the new version? [[User:Falcondude|Falcondude]] 11:05, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Yeah, that won't work. If you are trying to make a garbage compactor, make a ledge and designate a garbage dump with (i) that will drop the items where the bridge will close.[[User:Trevlyn13|Trevlyn13]]<br />
<br />
== Drawbridge vs colossus ==<br />
<br />
Yesterday a bronze colossus got trapped between my 2 moats, right under the drawbridge. It was too close to the catapults so that the operators wouldn't fire them, so I tried to crush it with the bridge.<br />
My bridge broke instead.<br />
(later I killed it by shooting hundreds of arrows)<br />
If anyone could replicate this, and also experiment with other megabeasts....<br />
(actually I made this account to tell people about this)<br />
[[User:nautilusfossil|nautilusfossil]]<br />
:As far as I know, Dwarven Atom Crushers™ break on megabeasts and demons. Cage Traps are the way to go for megabeasts, but demons are immune against them.<br />
:I don't know about semi-megabeasts considering bridge-breaking. [[User:MC Dirty|MC Dirty]] 18:17, 19 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Dwarves negative thoughts regarding crushed friends ==<br />
<br />
Dwarves respond to friends or family members being crushed by a drawbridge as if they'd been killed & then not buried: "He was forced to endure the decay of a sibling lately. He lost a sibling to tragedy recently." (I'm certain this was due to the drawbridge, as all the siblings *except* the one that was crushed had these negative thoughts. Nobody else in the family had been killed by anything yet.) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 14:49, 2 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Melty mechanisms... redux? ==<br />
<br />
Curiosity kills my dwarves - I'm not wasting the time to do this myself. Will mechanisms melt out of bridges that are submerged in magma? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:31, 28 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I have no idea, this is a good question. While writing a reply of my thoughts I kept re-thinking some things. If Magma passes over the bridge I'm pretty certain that the mechanism will act like a flood gate's. It will not melt away as long as you don't raise the bridge. If you do raise the bridge, the mechanism will melt away and the bridge could do a number of things. Before I keep typing about what I think will/could happen, I'm just going to go ahead and pass on a wall of text. [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 1844, 28 September 2008 (PST)<br />
::But fluids cannot enter the tile of a raised bridge, whereas they can enter the tile of a lowered bridge. In this way, a raised bridge would be analogous to a _closed_ floodgate, and a lowered bridge to an _open_ one. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 21:51, 25 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Bridges and wagons? ==<br />
<br />
Is is possible for wagons to drive over bridges? I would assume so, but I don't want to get hasty. --[[User:W-dueck|w-dueck]] 23:50, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:yes, anything can pass over them. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 00:29, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:: Okay, thanks. Now that the mean kobolds can't escape when they steal my stuff, I am free to bludgeon them with random objects! --[[User:W-dueck|w-dueck]] 18:39, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:::You have to spot them first, though. Put war dogs on restraints in a recessed area that leads to the trade depot.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Indestructible Caravan ==<br />
I needed to test out my whammer slammer bammer on <em>something</em> but no goblins volunteered for so long I was forced to attack the dwarven caravan instead. The mighty bridge swung down upon the lone wagon and was riven like a banana dipped in liquid nitrogen, leaving the wagon unscathed. If we could breed and train war wagons we'd rule the world. The 3-tile-wide parts of it anyway. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:55, 9 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:But a single cave swallowman can scuttle an entire wagon in two milliseconds. Maybe wagons count as a megabeast? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:00, 9 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Megabeasts break bridges even without atomsmashing? ==<br />
<br />
Situation: I captured a Titan and pitted it onto a drawbridge from a platform a Z-level above. The drawbridge is retractable and linked to a level. Logically, pulling the level will make the drawbridge retract and the Titan will plummet to his death.<br />
<br />
But it didn't happen. The bridge refuses to budge. I haven't got a message about it whatsoever.<br />
<br />
Is it possible for a Titan to break ''any'' drawbridge operation whatsoever no matter the end result?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:34, 6 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:<s>Yes. A bridge is a non-construction building. Therefore entities with [BUILDINGDESTROYER] can nuke them.</s> I doubt it. Did you find any mechanisms lying around, like next to the lever? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:02, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Nothing unusual to report. As far as I see, everything should be functioning normally. The Titan, by the way, does not move around. He stays right where I dropped him... --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 12:25, 7 January 2009 (EST)</div>Shurikanehttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Bridge&diff=3830140d Talk:Bridge2009-01-07T17:25:09Z<p>Shurikane: /* Megabeasts break bridges even without atomsmashing? */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Fluids vs bridges==<br />
Does a raised bridge prevent the flow of fluids? Guess I'll experiment and see if I can answer my own question. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 21:21, 29 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:Yes. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:55, 1 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==picture: south-raising drawbridge==<br />
Here's a picture of a bridge that raises South, to clear up any confusion over which direction bridges raise. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 18:03, 27 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
{{qd|cols=8<br />
|╔|═|╗|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
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<br />
== Items... ==<br />
<br />
When a creature is crushed by a bridge, what happens to the items they had?--[[User:Lordmick134|Lordmick134]]<br />
<br />
:When the bridge lowers, it completely ans permanently destroys anything it crashes on. So, there will be absolutely nothing under bridge, when it raises back.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 03:29, 4 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Not true! I had trapped a goblin inside a room with a bridge in it, and set the lever connected to the bridge to be repeatedly pulled. The goblin was stunned at most.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 09:37, 16 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::The goblin was likely ''flung'' from the bridge after stepping onto the extended bridge which then raised with the goblin still on it. Crushing is definitely an irrevocable and utter destruction. --[[User:JT|JT]] 16:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Channeling ==<br />
<br />
Checked the [[channel]]ing article, nothing there, either. I have a bridge that raises to the right to form a wall, part of my outer defensive perimeter. I was digging a channel around the fortification wall and wanted to channel under the bridge. I raised the bridge ... I cannot channel. It never creates the flashy 'this is gonna be channeled' designation anywhere where the bridge could lay over. I can channel any where else. I can also remove the bridge, channel what I want, and replace the bridge just fine. What gives? Is this a known bug? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 02:35, 29 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:As far as I know you can't dig on constructions. When the bridge is raised it is still considered to be constructed there. (or something like that) I had the same problem with some retracting bridges. To fix it I just removed the bridges and dug the channels, and then rebuilt them. --[[User:Lotus|Lotus]] 10:13 (CST) June 11, 2008<br />
<br />
== Bridges as a temporary wall ==<br />
<br />
I want to build a wall by pulling a lever, to block off a tunnel three squares wide.<br />
It is a mine tunnel with no channel above it.<br />
<br />
How long should the bridge be?<br />
<br />
It looks like this:<br />
<div style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%"><nowiki><br />
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ò▒▒▒<br />
.........╥.........<br />
.........║.........<br />
.........╨.........<br />
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒<br />
</nowiki></div><br />
<br />
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Well, you have to be careful. Don't forget, by raising a bridge, you can potentially obliterate your dwarves in the process. So try not to make it too wide. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:41, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:My question is, if I make it too long will it smash into the roof or anything?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::As far as I know of, it won't smash into the roof. The only concern is that if the bridge is too long, a dwarf may get accidently crushed. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:14, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Buildings that span multiple/variable z-levels are, at the current time, not possible. So, just build a 1x3 bridge, set it to raise west or east, and you have a wall! A toggleable wall! --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::I'd suggest doing a 2x bridge, as you'll have to track down the lever anytime you're curious as to whether the bridge is up or down, as a 1x or x1 bridge looks the same raised or lowered when raised on it's short axis. (e.g. the bridge above would look the same raised or lowered.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:59, 18 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Retractable/drawbridge ==<br />
<br />
How can you specify which type of bridge you want to build? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:45, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:When you go to place a bridge, by default it retracts. If you press wadxs you change the direction it raises: w = north, a= west, d=east, x=south, s=retracts. I don't know how to set the direction it retracts though.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::So if it retracts, it creates an impassable wall? -[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:15, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::No, it disappears. If it raises, it creates an impassable wall, whose direction is the same as the raise direction. Try it out.<br />
:::And, Garrie, it isn't possible to set retract direction since there is no such thing. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::Well I guess it doesn't really matter which way it retracts... although if a bridge is built outward from a cliff running east-west out to the chasm which is to the north then obviously the bridge retracts back to the edge it is anchored at (it can hardly retract back into mid-air...).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 23:22, 6 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Oh, really? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:32, 6 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::::well I guess applying common sense to DF might not be the best idea... but common sense would [bold]suggest [/bold] the bridge retracts back to where it was built from.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:03, 7 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::We don't use BBcode here. I don't think that even is BBcode, but it is in that style. To make '''bold text''', type <code><nowiki>'''bold text'''</nowiki></code>.<br />
:::::::And you're right that applying common sense to DF doesn't work. Even the least of peasants can carry thousands of pounds pebbles in a backpack. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:06, 7 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Bridge-on-bridge action ==<br />
<br />
I've just added a note about retractable bridges being able to be built using existing bridges as support. However I'm currently unable to test what happens when an intermediary bridge is retracted or raised (I have no stone for mechanisms!). I'm assuming that any bridges relying on the retracted/raised bridge for support will collapse, but it should be tested (and noted), if someone else has the time and inclination! [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 12:04, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: I can confirm that when the first bridge is retracted the second one deconstructs. And also if you choose to do your testing using extreme cliffs and "accidently" make 6 of your 7 dwarves stand on the second bridge then they will die a horrible death after falling 18 stories. --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 16:54, 16 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::What if you raise both of the bridges at the same time? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:48, 17 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::The same thing happens, the second bridge deconstructs again --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 13:48, 22 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::I attempted this quite some time ago, I think. I had something like ten bridges in a row built off a cliff, and retracted them all at once with one lever. All but the first one (which was connected to the cliff) shattered into stones instantly. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:29, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== lockdown system ==<br />
<br />
in one of my old forts i had a setup so if the opponent got near my bridges a lever would be pulled and the opponents would fall into the lava with a godlike imp in it, it would use multiple bridges however and i would have to rebuild atleast 1, it was sort of like a tesselation of crosses<br />
<br />
== Flying Bridge ==<br />
Build stairs up. Build stairs down atop it. Build a retracting bridge extending into open air from the downstairs. Link the retracting bridge to a lever. Pull the lever to retract the bridge. Deconstruct the down stairs. Deconstruct the up stairs. Pull the lever. Remove the lever. Bridge flies. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 11:38, 18 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Shame this can't be used to build eg. twisty retractable catwalks due to the above confirmations in Bridge-on-bridge action. :/ --[[User:Heron|Heron]] 09:46, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
::You could probably get something similar by just having occasional pillars sticking up, constructed by building towers of stairs, building a wall adjacent, then deconstructing the stairs. If you have each bridge anchored to one pillar, you ought to be able to get many retractable bridges in a sequence. --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 12:08, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::More testing. Retracted bridges never deconstruct. Make a chain as long as you like by keeping them all retracted until scaffolding is removed. Un-retracting bridges never deconstuct nor cause deconstruction. To make a path of multiple flying bridges build a scaffold for the first bridge, retract it, deconstruct the scaffold, build the second scaffold, retract that bridge, deconstruct that scaffold, and so forth. You can then unretract all bridges in any order and they'll all stay up. Retracting them again in any order caused them to fall. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 09:00, 2 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Stockpiles under bridges ==<br />
<br />
I tried to make a refuse stockpile with a drawbridge over top, and I couldn't place the stockpile where the bridge would lower onto. Can anyone else confirm this for the new version? [[User:Falcondude|Falcondude]] 11:05, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Yeah, that won't work. If you are trying to make a garbage compactor, make a ledge and designate a garbage dump with (i) that will drop the items where the bridge will close.[[User:Trevlyn13|Trevlyn13]]<br />
<br />
== Drawbridge vs colossus ==<br />
<br />
Yesterday a bronze colossus got trapped between my 2 moats, right under the drawbridge. It was too close to the catapults so that the operators wouldn't fire them, so I tried to crush it with the bridge.<br />
My bridge broke instead.<br />
(later I killed it by shooting hundreds of arrows)<br />
If anyone could replicate this, and also experiment with other megabeasts....<br />
(actually I made this account to tell people about this)<br />
[[User:nautilusfossil|nautilusfossil]]<br />
:As far as I know, Dwarven Atom Crushers™ break on megabeasts and demons. Cage Traps are the way to go for megabeasts, but demons are immune against them.<br />
:I don't know about semi-megabeasts considering bridge-breaking. [[User:MC Dirty|MC Dirty]] 18:17, 19 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Dwarves negative thoughts regarding crushed friends ==<br />
<br />
Dwarves respond to friends or family members being crushed by a drawbridge as if they'd been killed & then not buried: "He was forced to endure the decay of a sibling lately. He lost a sibling to tragedy recently." (I'm certain this was due to the drawbridge, as all the siblings *except* the one that was crushed had these negative thoughts. Nobody else in the family had been killed by anything yet.) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 14:49, 2 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Melty mechanisms... redux? ==<br />
<br />
Curiosity kills my dwarves - I'm not wasting the time to do this myself. Will mechanisms melt out of bridges that are submerged in magma? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:31, 28 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I have no idea, this is a good question. While writing a reply of my thoughts I kept re-thinking some things. If Magma passes over the bridge I'm pretty certain that the mechanism will act like a flood gate's. It will not melt away as long as you don't raise the bridge. If you do raise the bridge, the mechanism will melt away and the bridge could do a number of things. Before I keep typing about what I think will/could happen, I'm just going to go ahead and pass on a wall of text. [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 1844, 28 September 2008 (PST)<br />
::But fluids cannot enter the tile of a raised bridge, whereas they can enter the tile of a lowered bridge. In this way, a raised bridge would be analogous to a _closed_ floodgate, and a lowered bridge to an _open_ one. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 21:51, 25 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Bridges and wagons? ==<br />
<br />
Is is possible for wagons to drive over bridges? I would assume so, but I don't want to get hasty. --[[User:W-dueck|w-dueck]] 23:50, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:yes, anything can pass over them. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 00:29, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:: Okay, thanks. Now that the mean kobolds can't escape when they steal my stuff, I am free to bludgeon them with random objects! --[[User:W-dueck|w-dueck]] 18:39, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:::You have to spot them first, though. Put war dogs on restraints in a recessed area that leads to the trade depot.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Indestructible Caravan ==<br />
I needed to test out my whammer slammer bammer on <em>something</em> but no goblins volunteered for so long I was forced to attack the dwarven caravan instead. The mighty bridge swung down upon the lone wagon and was riven like a banana dipped in liquid nitrogen, leaving the wagon unscathed. If we could breed and train war wagons we'd rule the world. The 3-tile-wide parts of it anyway. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:55, 9 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:But a single cave swallowman can scuttle an entire wagon in two milliseconds. Maybe wagons count as a megabeast? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:00, 9 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Megabeasts break bridges even without atomsmashing? ==<br />
<br />
Situation: I captured a Titan and pitted it onto a drawbridge from a platform a Z-level above. The drawbridge is retractable and linked to a level. Logically, pulling the level will make the drawbridge retract and the Titan will plummet to his death.<br />
<br />
But it didn't happen. The bridge refuses to budge. I haven't got a message about it whatsoever.<br />
<br />
Is it possible for a Titan to break ''any'' drawbridge operation whatsoever no matter the end result?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:34, 6 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:<s>Yes. A bridge is a non-construction building. Therefore entities with [BUILDINGDESTROYER] can nuke them.</s> I doubt it. Did you find any mechanisms lying around, like next to the lever? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:02, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Nothing unusual to report. As far as I see, everything should be functioning normally. The Titan, by the way, does not move around. He stays right where I dropped him...<br />
--[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 12:25, 7 January 2009 (EST)</div>Shurikanehttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Bridge&diff=3829840d Talk:Bridge2009-01-07T03:34:52Z<p>Shurikane: Megabeasts break bridges even without atomsmashing?</p>
<hr />
<div>==Fluids vs bridges==<br />
Does a raised bridge prevent the flow of fluids? Guess I'll experiment and see if I can answer my own question. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 21:21, 29 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:Yes. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:55, 1 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==picture: south-raising drawbridge==<br />
Here's a picture of a bridge that raises South, to clear up any confusion over which direction bridges raise. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 18:03, 27 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
{{qd|cols=8<br />
|╔|═|╗|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}<br />
|╚|═|╝|.|╞|═|╡|.<br />
|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.}}<br />
<br />
== Items... ==<br />
<br />
When a creature is crushed by a bridge, what happens to the items they had?--[[User:Lordmick134|Lordmick134]]<br />
<br />
:When the bridge lowers, it completely ans permanently destroys anything it crashes on. So, there will be absolutely nothing under bridge, when it raises back.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 03:29, 4 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Not true! I had trapped a goblin inside a room with a bridge in it, and set the lever connected to the bridge to be repeatedly pulled. The goblin was stunned at most.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 09:37, 16 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::The goblin was likely ''flung'' from the bridge after stepping onto the extended bridge which then raised with the goblin still on it. Crushing is definitely an irrevocable and utter destruction. --[[User:JT|JT]] 16:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Channeling ==<br />
<br />
Checked the [[channel]]ing article, nothing there, either. I have a bridge that raises to the right to form a wall, part of my outer defensive perimeter. I was digging a channel around the fortification wall and wanted to channel under the bridge. I raised the bridge ... I cannot channel. It never creates the flashy 'this is gonna be channeled' designation anywhere where the bridge could lay over. I can channel any where else. I can also remove the bridge, channel what I want, and replace the bridge just fine. What gives? Is this a known bug? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 02:35, 29 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:As far as I know you can't dig on constructions. When the bridge is raised it is still considered to be constructed there. (or something like that) I had the same problem with some retracting bridges. To fix it I just removed the bridges and dug the channels, and then rebuilt them. --[[User:Lotus|Lotus]] 10:13 (CST) June 11, 2008<br />
<br />
== Bridges as a temporary wall ==<br />
<br />
I want to build a wall by pulling a lever, to block off a tunnel three squares wide.<br />
It is a mine tunnel with no channel above it.<br />
<br />
How long should the bridge be?<br />
<br />
It looks like this:<br />
<div style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%"><nowiki><br />
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ò▒▒▒<br />
.........╥.........<br />
.........║.........<br />
.........╨.........<br />
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒<br />
</nowiki></div><br />
<br />
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Well, you have to be careful. Don't forget, by raising a bridge, you can potentially obliterate your dwarves in the process. So try not to make it too wide. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:41, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:My question is, if I make it too long will it smash into the roof or anything?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::As far as I know of, it won't smash into the roof. The only concern is that if the bridge is too long, a dwarf may get accidently crushed. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:14, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Buildings that span multiple/variable z-levels are, at the current time, not possible. So, just build a 1x3 bridge, set it to raise west or east, and you have a wall! A toggleable wall! --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::I'd suggest doing a 2x bridge, as you'll have to track down the lever anytime you're curious as to whether the bridge is up or down, as a 1x or x1 bridge looks the same raised or lowered when raised on it's short axis. (e.g. the bridge above would look the same raised or lowered.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:59, 18 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Retractable/drawbridge ==<br />
<br />
How can you specify which type of bridge you want to build? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:45, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:When you go to place a bridge, by default it retracts. If you press wadxs you change the direction it raises: w = north, a= west, d=east, x=south, s=retracts. I don't know how to set the direction it retracts though.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::So if it retracts, it creates an impassable wall? -[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:15, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::No, it disappears. If it raises, it creates an impassable wall, whose direction is the same as the raise direction. Try it out.<br />
:::And, Garrie, it isn't possible to set retract direction since there is no such thing. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::Well I guess it doesn't really matter which way it retracts... although if a bridge is built outward from a cliff running east-west out to the chasm which is to the north then obviously the bridge retracts back to the edge it is anchored at (it can hardly retract back into mid-air...).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 23:22, 6 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Oh, really? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:32, 6 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::::well I guess applying common sense to DF might not be the best idea... but common sense would [bold]suggest [/bold] the bridge retracts back to where it was built from.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:03, 7 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::We don't use BBcode here. I don't think that even is BBcode, but it is in that style. To make '''bold text''', type <code><nowiki>'''bold text'''</nowiki></code>.<br />
:::::::And you're right that applying common sense to DF doesn't work. Even the least of peasants can carry thousands of pounds pebbles in a backpack. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:06, 7 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Bridge-on-bridge action ==<br />
<br />
I've just added a note about retractable bridges being able to be built using existing bridges as support. However I'm currently unable to test what happens when an intermediary bridge is retracted or raised (I have no stone for mechanisms!). I'm assuming that any bridges relying on the retracted/raised bridge for support will collapse, but it should be tested (and noted), if someone else has the time and inclination! [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 12:04, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: I can confirm that when the first bridge is retracted the second one deconstructs. And also if you choose to do your testing using extreme cliffs and "accidently" make 6 of your 7 dwarves stand on the second bridge then they will die a horrible death after falling 18 stories. --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 16:54, 16 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::What if you raise both of the bridges at the same time? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:48, 17 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::The same thing happens, the second bridge deconstructs again --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 13:48, 22 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::I attempted this quite some time ago, I think. I had something like ten bridges in a row built off a cliff, and retracted them all at once with one lever. All but the first one (which was connected to the cliff) shattered into stones instantly. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:29, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== lockdown system ==<br />
<br />
in one of my old forts i had a setup so if the opponent got near my bridges a lever would be pulled and the opponents would fall into the lava with a godlike imp in it, it would use multiple bridges however and i would have to rebuild atleast 1, it was sort of like a tesselation of crosses<br />
<br />
== Flying Bridge ==<br />
Build stairs up. Build stairs down atop it. Build a retracting bridge extending into open air from the downstairs. Link the retracting bridge to a lever. Pull the lever to retract the bridge. Deconstruct the down stairs. Deconstruct the up stairs. Pull the lever. Remove the lever. Bridge flies. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 11:38, 18 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Shame this can't be used to build eg. twisty retractable catwalks due to the above confirmations in Bridge-on-bridge action. :/ --[[User:Heron|Heron]] 09:46, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
::You could probably get something similar by just having occasional pillars sticking up, constructed by building towers of stairs, building a wall adjacent, then deconstructing the stairs. If you have each bridge anchored to one pillar, you ought to be able to get many retractable bridges in a sequence. --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 12:08, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::More testing. Retracted bridges never deconstruct. Make a chain as long as you like by keeping them all retracted until scaffolding is removed. Un-retracting bridges never deconstuct nor cause deconstruction. To make a path of multiple flying bridges build a scaffold for the first bridge, retract it, deconstruct the scaffold, build the second scaffold, retract that bridge, deconstruct that scaffold, and so forth. You can then unretract all bridges in any order and they'll all stay up. Retracting them again in any order caused them to fall. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 09:00, 2 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Stockpiles under bridges ==<br />
<br />
I tried to make a refuse stockpile with a drawbridge over top, and I couldn't place the stockpile where the bridge would lower onto. Can anyone else confirm this for the new version? [[User:Falcondude|Falcondude]] 11:05, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Yeah, that won't work. If you are trying to make a garbage compactor, make a ledge and designate a garbage dump with (i) that will drop the items where the bridge will close.[[User:Trevlyn13|Trevlyn13]]<br />
<br />
== Drawbridge vs colossus ==<br />
<br />
Yesterday a bronze colossus got trapped between my 2 moats, right under the drawbridge. It was too close to the catapults so that the operators wouldn't fire them, so I tried to crush it with the bridge.<br />
My bridge broke instead.<br />
(later I killed it by shooting hundreds of arrows)<br />
If anyone could replicate this, and also experiment with other megabeasts....<br />
(actually I made this account to tell people about this)<br />
[[User:nautilusfossil|nautilusfossil]]<br />
:As far as I know, Dwarven Atom Crushers™ break on megabeasts and demons. Cage Traps are the way to go for megabeasts, but demons are immune against them.<br />
:I don't know about semi-megabeasts considering bridge-breaking. [[User:MC Dirty|MC Dirty]] 18:17, 19 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Dwarves negative thoughts regarding crushed friends ==<br />
<br />
Dwarves respond to friends or family members being crushed by a drawbridge as if they'd been killed & then not buried: "He was forced to endure the decay of a sibling lately. He lost a sibling to tragedy recently." (I'm certain this was due to the drawbridge, as all the siblings *except* the one that was crushed had these negative thoughts. Nobody else in the family had been killed by anything yet.) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 14:49, 2 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Melty mechanisms... redux? ==<br />
<br />
Curiosity kills my dwarves - I'm not wasting the time to do this myself. Will mechanisms melt out of bridges that are submerged in magma? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:31, 28 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I have no idea, this is a good question. While writing a reply of my thoughts I kept re-thinking some things. If Magma passes over the bridge I'm pretty certain that the mechanism will act like a flood gate's. It will not melt away as long as you don't raise the bridge. If you do raise the bridge, the mechanism will melt away and the bridge could do a number of things. Before I keep typing about what I think will/could happen, I'm just going to go ahead and pass on a wall of text. [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 1844, 28 September 2008 (PST)<br />
::But fluids cannot enter the tile of a raised bridge, whereas they can enter the tile of a lowered bridge. In this way, a raised bridge would be analogous to a _closed_ floodgate, and a lowered bridge to an _open_ one. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 21:51, 25 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Bridges and wagons? ==<br />
<br />
Is is possible for wagons to drive over bridges? I would assume so, but I don't want to get hasty. --[[User:W-dueck|w-dueck]] 23:50, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:yes, anything can pass over them. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 00:29, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:: Okay, thanks. Now that the mean kobolds can't escape when they steal my stuff, I am free to bludgeon them with random objects! --[[User:W-dueck|w-dueck]] 18:39, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:::You have to spot them first, though. Put war dogs on restraints in a recessed area that leads to the trade depot.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Indestructible Caravan ==<br />
I needed to test out my whammer slammer bammer on <em>something</em> but no goblins volunteered for so long I was forced to attack the dwarven caravan instead. The mighty bridge swung down upon the lone wagon and was riven like a banana dipped in liquid nitrogen, leaving the wagon unscathed. If we could breed and train war wagons we'd rule the world. The 3-tile-wide parts of it anyway. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:55, 9 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:But a single cave swallowman can scuttle an entire wagon in two milliseconds. Maybe wagons count as a megabeast? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:00, 9 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Megabeasts break bridges even without atomsmashing? ==<br />
<br />
Situation: I captured a Titan and pitted it onto a drawbridge from a platform a Z-level above. The drawbridge is retractable and linked to a level. Logically, pulling the level will make the drawbridge retract and the Titan will plummet to his death.<br />
<br />
But it didn't happen. The bridge refuses to budge. I haven't got a message about it whatsoever.<br />
<br />
Is it possible for a Titan to break ''any'' drawbridge operation whatsoever no matter the end result?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:34, 6 January 2009 (EST)</div>Shurikanehttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Trading&diff=3590140d:Trading2009-01-01T06:16:15Z<p>Shurikane: /* Caravans */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Building|name=Trade depot|key=D<br />
|job= <br />
1 of:<br />
* [[Broker]] noble<br />
* None (See description)<br />
|construction=<br />
3 of<br />
* [[Block]]<br />
* [[Metal bar]]<br />
* [[Stone]]<br />
* [[Wood]]<br />
|construction_job=<br />
* [[Architecture]]<br />
* and 1 of:<br />
** [[Metalsmithing]]<br />
** [[Masonry]]<br />
** [[Carpentry]]<br />
|purpose=<br />
Trade goods with other races.<br />
}}<br />
'''Trading''' in Dwarf Fortress first occurs in the first [[autumn]] after establishing your fortress, with the arrival of the [[dwarf|Dwarven]] [[Trading#Caravans|caravan]]. Trading is a good way to acquire resources that are not available or are rare in the local area. It also allows for more freedom in selecting starting gear, because items can always be obtained through trade later, e.g. one can drop the expensive [[anvil]] to bring 500 extra units of [[alcohol|booze]] or purchase additional skills for the expedition party. New players can [[Your_first_fortress#Trading|look here]] for advice on trading with the first caravan.<br />
<br />
== Trade Depot ==<br />
Building a '''Trade Depot''' ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}}) will allow you the opportunity to trade with caravans that arrive at your fortress. Trade depots can be created from almost any material, and construction requires the [[Architecture]] skill along with the appropriate craft labor ([[Carpentry]], [[Masonry]], or [[Metalsmithing]]). <br />
<br />
While it may be convenient to build a Trade Depot outside first, it is usually a good idea to move it inside or build fortifications around it to protect caravans and your goods from [[thief|thieves]] and [[goblin]]s.<br />
<br />
Hit {{K|q}} to bring up the building interaction mode, and then move your cursor over the Trade Depot to gain access to the following options.<br />
<br />
=== Move Goods to/from Depot ===<br />
{{K|g}}: This command becomes active when a caravan arrives on your map. Choosing items from this menu will mark them as [PENDING] and [[dwarves]] will begin moving them to the depot (all dwarves regardless of labor settings will move goods to the depot when necessary). Items that have been brought to the depot are ready for trade and will be marked as [TRADING]. Items nominated for trading will remain at the depot until the caravan leaves, or the [PENDING] / [TRADING] flag is cleared by choosing the item again. Once no longer required at the depot, items will be available for use or hauling to stockpiles as normal.<br />
<br />
=== No trader needed at depot or Trader requested at depot ===<br />
{{K|r}}: This requests a dwarf to come to the depot. To conduct trades with caravans, a trader must be present at the Trade Depot. Once requested, a dwarf will make their way to the depot, and remain there until released with this setting, or the dwarf decides to drink, sleep, or eat.<br />
<br />
=== Only broker may trade or Anyone may trade ===<br />
{{K|b}}: This setting determines who will perform the trade. If '''Only broker may trade''' is active, then only the [[Broker]] [[noble]] will respond to the trader request. This can become a problem when the broker is sleeping or otherwise occupied, but dwarves with low [[Broker skills]] will receive poorer deals when trading.<br />
<br />
=== Trade ===<br />
{{K|t}}: This option becomes available once the caravan and your broker are both at the depot. It begins trading.<br />
<br />
<br />
==Trading==<br />
{{:Trading/Flowchart}}<br />
After entering the trade menu, select the items to offer from the right, and the desired items from the left. All caravans have a weight limit which cannot be exceeded, and the allowed additional weight is displayed in the lower right corner. If the acting broker has at least Novice or better [[Appraisal]] skill, the value of all items will be displayed. Once the proposal is ready, press {{K|t}} to make an offer, but merchants will not agree unless they make adequate profit. Be sure to use '''trade''', not '''offer''' {{K|o}}, as this will make a gift of the selected items. The amount of acceptable profit is determined by the broker's [[Broker skills|skills]] and the merchant's mood, described below. Merchants may attempt to propose counteroffers if they do not accept the proposal, which can then be accepted, rejected, or further amended by the broker.<br />
<br />
A good rule of thumb for inexperienced brokers is to give merchants a 50% or better profit. For example, if the desired goods are worth 500☼, make sure their profit is at least 250☼ (which would make the total worth of the offered goods 750☼). This should ensure that the merchants are happy with the trading and that they accept the trade immediately without making ridiculous counteroffers. With more experienced brokers or pleased merchants, even marginally profitable trades can be successful, and counteroffers can be rejected safely, offering the same trade again.<br />
<br />
=== Trading cue colors ===<br />
<br />
* Items in brown have been created (or modified) by your fortress. They can be traded away or offered as a gift.<br />
* Items in white were created by another source. They can be traded, but if one of these items has been selected, the entire selection cannot be offered as a gift.<br />
* Items in purple are under a no-export mandate and should not be traded away unless exceptional circumstances (or masochism) push you to do this.<br />
<br />
=== Merchant mood ===<br />
If your broker has Novice or better [[Judge of Intent]] skill, there will be a line added below the merchant's dialogue describing the caravan's attitude. Their attitude rises with successful trades (especially if they get lots of profit) and falls when you propose deals they don't like. <br />
<br />
* (trader) seems ecstatic with the trading<br />
* (trader) seems very happy about the trading<br />
* (trader) seems pleased with the trading<br />
* (trader) seems willing to trade (Default, at least for humans)<br />
* (trader) seems to be rapidly losing patience<br />
* (trader) is not going to take much more of this<br />
* (trader) is unwilling to trade<br />
<br />
The happier you make a merchant, the less profit margin he will demand in a trade. If merchants reach the lowest level, no further trade will be possible, and they will immediately pack up and leave your depot. Since annoyed traders are more likely to reject deals, you should be generous in initial negotiations. Skilled negotiators seem less likely to offend traders with unsuccessful deals. <br />
<br />
=== Seizing items ===<br />
<br />
Pressing {{K|s}} from the trade menu will seize the selected items of the merchant's. If you seize goods from a caravan, the merchant will respond "Take what you want. I can't stop you." and then leave immediately without the seized goods. Items cannot be seized from the dwarven caravan, and other races will not buy stolen goods (marked in red) unless they are tricked into asking for them via counteroffer, or the items are "naturalized" by decoration or used to create other goods. Seizing goods will hurt diplomatic relations, but is not grounds for an automatic [[siege]].<br />
<br />
As a side note, if you remove your trade depot, all the caravan's items will drop to the ground, to be readily hauled away by your dwarves. This does not mark the item as stolen, and the caravan will leave.<br />
<br />
===Offering items===<br />
<br />
{{key|o}} You can also give away items, as gifts to the leaders of the [[civilization]] you are trading with. This presumably helps relations between yourself and the other faction. The exact effects are unknown but it is believed that offering goods increases the quantity and variety of trade goods brought by next year's caravan. Also the [[King]] may require offerings before his arrival.<br />
<br />
== Caravans ==<br />
Each friendly race will send a caravan once per year, but only if that race considers the fortress site accessible (as denoted on the embark screen). The exception is dwarves, who always arrive. Caravans appear to enter the map from a random direction which does not coincide with the relative direction of the originating [[civilization]], and they may appear from different directions or z-levels each year. Caravans may leave without trading if it takes too long to reach the trade depot, and they cannot use stairs. Caravans will embark on their journey exactly one month after their arrival, whether they have succeeded in reaching the depot or not.<br />
<br />
=== Wagons ===<br />
[[Image:Depot alley.png|thumb|right|A depot in the fortress, with a narrow, trapped accessway.]]<br />
[[Image:Depot accessible.png|thumb|right|Composite image of depot access screen. Strategically arranged walls and natural obstacles (boulders) force wagons to enter and exit the map immediately to the east of the depot.]]<br />
All races except elves will send [[wagon]]s with their caravans, which have a much greater capacity for bringing foreign imports and accepting dwarven exports. Unfortunately, wagons require paths that are three tiles wide to pass. Wagons may enter the map in a location different from merchants with pack [[animals]], if the point the animals entered was inaccessible to the wagons. If wagons are unable to find an open path to your trade depot (or if you have not built a depot at all), they will bypass your site and you will only be able to trade for what is available on the pack animals. <br />
<br />
Wagons cannot cross [[stair]]s or [[door]]s (even if the doors span an area ordinarily wide enough for the wagon to pass). Obstructing [[boulder]]s must be smoothed ( {{K|d}} - {{K|s}} ), and [[tree]]s must be cut down ( {{K|d}} - {{K|t}} ). [[Shrub]]s do not obstruct wagons, and neither do [[ramp]]s, [[bridge]]s, [[road]]s, or [[floor]] tiles. (However, ramps covered by a [[hatch]] do obstruct.) The impassable tiles of [[workshop]]s and other buildings will obstruct, but the passable tiles of those buildings will not. Any buildings which are normally passable, including [[restraint]]s and [[trap]]s, will not obstruct wagons either, nor will creatures, whether restrained or free.<br />
<br />
To keep trees from growing and blocking a path, you should build roads, bridges, or floor tiles over any [[soil]] tiles that make up part of the path. Ramps must be used to adjust [[z-level]] elevation.<br />
<br />
After a trade depot is built, you can use {{K|D}} to check wagon accessibility. The display is somewhat misleading: tiles marked in green mean a wagon can ''fit'' in that space, not that it can necessarily reach it from the edge of the map. Further, the green {{Raw Tile|W|{{COLOR:2:0:1}}|{{COLOR:2:0:0}}}}s only represent where the ''center'' of the wagon can fit -- so a three-tile wide path, which can fit a wagon, will only show up as one-tile wide line of {{Raw Tile|W|{{COLOR:2:0:1}}|{{COLOR:2:0:0}}}}s. When the route they would take goes over hills (ramps), it's hard to eye whether it is continuous all the way to the edge of the map, so be sure you see the words "depot accessible" on the depot access screen.<br />
<br />
As long as you have a three-tile wide path to the depot that reaches ''any'' edge of the map, wagons will be able to reach the depot. If there is only one path they can take, they will take that path. You can force them to enter and exit the map in an exact spot -- preferably very near your depot -- by erecting walls or digging channels so that all paths but the one you want them to take are blocked.<br />
<br />
=== Liaisons ===<br />
[[Liaison]]s may be sent with caravans to speak to important dwarves. They will allow you to choose the type of items that your fortress is interested in, and will focus on bringing more of that kind of item on the next caravan (however those items will also be more expensive). They will also present you with a list of the items they're willing to pay more for, which will be effective upon their next arrival.<br />
<br />
=== Races ===<br />
The following races send caravans.<br />
<br />
==== [[Dwarves]] ====<br />
The dwarven caravan:<br />
* arrives in [[Calendar|autumn]].<br />
* employs wagons to bring more goods.<br />
* typically carries [[food]], [[alcohol|booze]], [[leather]], and supplies. Dwarves alone may carry [[steel]] and steel goods.<br />
* tends to be well guarded.<br />
* sends a liaison who will speak with the [[Expedition leader]] (or [[Mayor]]) to negotiate prices.<br />
* is responsible for the number of immigrants received (when the caravan escapes alive).<br />
* will not cause sieges when repeatedly destroyed or lost.<br />
* is the only caravan to arrive during a fortress' first year.<br />
* always arrives regardless of embark location.<br />
* cannot have its goods seized from the trade menu.<br />
<br />
==== [[elf|Elves]] ====<br />
[[Image:Evil_elves.png|thumb|400px|A typical elven caravan.]]<br />
<br />
The elven caravan:<br />
* arrives in [[Calendar|spring]].<br />
* does not send wagons.<br />
* typically carries [[cloth]], [[rope]], various above ground [[plants]] and their byproducts, [[log]]s, [[wood]]en [[craft]]s & [[weapon]]s, large-sized clothing and [[armor]], and may carry tame [[creatures]].<br />
* carries more wood the less trees you cut down{{verify}}.<br />
* tends to be unguarded.<br />
* may send a diplomat who imposes a tree cutting quota.<br />
* does not accept some items in trade.<br />
<br />
Elven traders do not like to be offered any tree byproducts. Forbidden items include{{ver|0.28.181.40d}}: <br />
<br />
* [[Wood]]en items, and items derived from wood (including [[tower-cap]] logs), such as [[charcoal]] and [[pearlash]]<br />
* Clear and crystal [[glass]] (because [[pearlash]] is used in their creation)<br />
* Items [[decoration|decorated]] with any of the above materials<br />
* [[Obsidian]] shortswords (since they have wooden handles)<br />
* [[Soap]] (made with [[ash]])<br />
<br />
[[Metal]] items are acceptable, even when [[charcoal]] is used in their production. Items made from [[silk]] are acceptable, as are all non-wooden plant-derived products such as [[cloth]] and [[thread]]. Different from previous versions, items made of bone and shell are acceptable. You can also transport your goods to the [[trade depot]] in a wooden [[bin]], as long as you do not try to sell the bin. Living animals are acceptable, as long as the [[cage]] or [[trap]] is not made of [[wood]].<br />
<br />
Be especially careful with reselling items from other caravans, as decorated items made out of a non-living material may include decorative materials that were made of living materials. All items that elven caravans sell are also unacceptable to sell back to elves, as the dwarves have no means of proving that they were made in an "elf kosher" way &mdash; and all dwarves know that elves have terrible memory.<br />
<br />
==== [[Human]]s ====<br />
The human caravan:<br />
* arrives in [[Calendar|summer]].<br />
* employs wagons to bring more goods.<br />
* typically carries a very large quantity and variety of goods.<br />
* tends to be moderately guarded.<br />
* sends a liaison who will speak with the broker to negotiate prices.<br />
<br />
==== [[Goblin]]s ====<br />
A goblin caravan may arrive if your civilization is at peace with the goblins.<br />
<br />
The goblin caravan:<br />
*does not send wagons<br />
*tends to be unguarded<br />
*brings mostly food and cloth<br />
*does not send a liaison or a guild representative<br />
*does not make import/export agreements<br />
<br />
=== Destruction ===<br />
If caravans are destroyed (intentionally or unintentionally), the items may remain for use. Traders caught in a [[cave-in]] will flee as if they were attacked but will leave all the items dropped by the caravan behind. Pack animals carrying items are affected just like a normal tamed [[mule]] and must be killed in the cave-in for them to drop items on the ground. It is however much more likely that the pack animal(s) will only be stunned or rendered unconscious and flee shortly after recovering from the hit. Wagons will collapse if caught in a cave-in, leaving all that it was carrying on the ground as a result. Wagons can also be destroyed by [[ocean]] waves coming up onto the shore if you have settled in the appropriate area. The only difference between collapsing under waves or a cave-in is a higher probably of recovering items if the wagon is destroyed by a wave.<br />
<br />
Repeated caravan destruction (intentional or unintentional) will strain diplomatic relations and may result in a [[siege]].</div>Shurikanehttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Trading&diff=3608740d Talk:Trading2008-12-30T03:11:53Z<p>Shurikane: /* Arrival dates */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Archive|<br />
# The [[Talk:Trading/Talk Caravan|talk page]] from Caravan, which wasn't merged properly at the time.<br />
# The [[Talk:Trading/archive1|first archive]] of Talk:Trading.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Culling on mandates ==<br />
<br />
what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::I am quite sure that "culling on mandates: on" hides all bins containing items which have active Noble Export Bans. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 09:16, 13 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::I made a "trading color cues" subsection. This should cover relevant info about mandates and other things. --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:07, 29 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Trading flowchart ==<br />
{{:Trading/Flowchart}}<br />
Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)<br />
<br />
Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right<br />
{|cellpadding="2" border="1" width=400|<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})<br />
|-<br />
| Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})<br />
Check green area reaches edge of map<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map<br />
"A--- caravan from --- has arrived."<br />
|-<br />
| Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot<br />
"Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods"<br />
|-<br />
| Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded <br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]<br />
:Ask and ye shall receive (see right, editable at [[Trading/Flowchart]]). --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT) <br />
::'''Re: Adeptable's changes'''<br>I don't think the third branch is neccesary. For one, it makes it seem too wide, and secondary it implies that turning off the trader's labours ''all the time'' means that trading will happen faster - almost as if it will make merchants arrive more often. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 23:36, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::I'd add retrieving empty bins to the bottom so that you don't end up with empty bins sitting at the depot. When stockpiles are crowded you'll need them to deal with the sudden influx of goods. (Never give away bins!) I bow to your wiki-fu, I simply could not edit your flowchart... --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:15, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Yeah, it's a bit tricky I guess. It's all in the colspan :p. But, ahhh, how do you retreive them? I thought dwarves would automatically fetch empty bins from the depot if they needed them, just like fetching them from any other location. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 18:31, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== How many wagons? ==<br />
<br />
I don't think I've ever seen more than 8 wagons in a given caravan. Is that the limit? Has anyone ever seen more than 8?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:01, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Mass selection of goods to be moved ==<br />
<br />
Question: Is there a way to designate multiple goods in one selection to be brought to the depot? <br />
<br />
I'm getting really tired of indivually selecting goods to be moved to the depot when I have massive amounts of crafts, food, etc. So is anyone familiar with ways to select multiple goods at once? Maybe a "start" and "end" tags (for lack of a better name) and every good caught inbetween is designated to be moved to the depot? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 14:47 10 November 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Nope. About the best you can do is use the select (search) menu to get all the ones of the type you want, then enter-down-enter-down. You can flag about 200 a minute this way, though.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:17, 10 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::That's what I was doing previously. Are there any plans for a "mass selector" to be introduced? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 16:50 10 November 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:::Not that I know of. Make a feature request on the [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php forums].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 10 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::AFAIK, there is no good way to do this from the trade screen, which is why it's important to set up custom stockpiles and have plenty of bins. Man, I really wish you could make bins out of stone.<br />
<br />
== Merchant moods ==<br />
<br />
My fortress hadn't been doing too well, but I didn't know it was so bad it could affect merchants... and their pack animals. As the last merchant was about to leave the map, he suddenly went berserk and was cut down by his bodyguard, who then fled the scene. Shortly thereafter, I recieved a message that the donkey had been stricken by melacholy. Has anyone else had this happen?<br />
<br />
:They usually eventually go nuts if they can't leave for some reason. Never heard of something like what you're describing.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:24, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== No more dwarven caravan ==<br />
<br />
So. The Dwarven caravan has not come in the past two years. I think, though I am not sure, that this corresponds with when I met the requirements for the Incoming King, though he has not yet seen fit to arrive. I believe I also capped the population sometime in there, but I think it was after the first year of no caravan. I don't recall in any way molesting previous caravans. I needs me some dolomite and steel bars, anyone know what's going on here? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 02:10, 13 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:So. I upper the population cap to encourage some immigration, and after a few seasons, the King showed up with his retinue and the Hammerer, who had apparently died at some point. I re-capped the population, and the caravan came next autumn. Was it the incoming king or the dead hammerer? Did the population cap interfere with the king's arrival? The mystery remains. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 14:59, 2 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== A query from the deleted page Talk:Stealing ==<br />
<br />
I've read many times that the traders count their total losses/profits when they leave the edge of the map, so as to make stealing of any sort impossible (to get away with, anyhow). Does this include what the guards are carrying (if they get killed or even just shoot off some bolts)? Or is the "total profit" concept true at all? --[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:07, 27 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I'm pretty sure that the total profit concept is how it works. The value of everything the traders enter with is subtracted from the value of everything the traders leave with to calculate profit. There's probably something in there to account for the death of (a) trader(s). --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 21:42, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Wagon movement ==<br />
<br />
I'm pretty sure that wagons cannot move diagonally. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:08, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Arrival dates ==<br />
<br />
Out of curiosity, has anybody given a closer look at the exact arrival dates of trade caravans? Do they always arrive at a fixed time, or does it hover inside a certain period during the month or season? --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:11, 29 December 2008 (EST)</div>Shurikanehttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Trading&diff=3608640d Talk:Trading2008-12-30T03:09:48Z<p>Shurikane: Arrival dates</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Archive|<br />
# The [[Talk:Trading/Talk Caravan|talk page]] from Caravan, which wasn't merged properly at the time.<br />
# The [[Talk:Trading/archive1|first archive]] of Talk:Trading.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Culling on mandates ==<br />
<br />
what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::I am quite sure that "culling on mandates: on" hides all bins containing items which have active Noble Export Bans. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 09:16, 13 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::I made a "trading color cues" subsection. This should cover relevant info about mandates and other things. --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:07, 29 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Trading flowchart ==<br />
{{:Trading/Flowchart}}<br />
Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)<br />
<br />
Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right<br />
{|cellpadding="2" border="1" width=400|<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})<br />
|-<br />
| Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})<br />
Check green area reaches edge of map<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map<br />
"A--- caravan from --- has arrived."<br />
|-<br />
| Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot<br />
"Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods"<br />
|-<br />
| Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded <br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]<br />
:Ask and ye shall receive (see right, editable at [[Trading/Flowchart]]). --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT) <br />
::'''Re: Adeptable's changes'''<br>I don't think the third branch is neccesary. For one, it makes it seem too wide, and secondary it implies that turning off the trader's labours ''all the time'' means that trading will happen faster - almost as if it will make merchants arrive more often. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 23:36, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::I'd add retrieving empty bins to the bottom so that you don't end up with empty bins sitting at the depot. When stockpiles are crowded you'll need them to deal with the sudden influx of goods. (Never give away bins!) I bow to your wiki-fu, I simply could not edit your flowchart... --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:15, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Yeah, it's a bit tricky I guess. It's all in the colspan :p. But, ahhh, how do you retreive them? I thought dwarves would automatically fetch empty bins from the depot if they needed them, just like fetching them from any other location. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 18:31, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== How many wagons? ==<br />
<br />
I don't think I've ever seen more than 8 wagons in a given caravan. Is that the limit? Has anyone ever seen more than 8?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:01, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Mass selection of goods to be moved ==<br />
<br />
Question: Is there a way to designate multiple goods in one selection to be brought to the depot? <br />
<br />
I'm getting really tired of indivually selecting goods to be moved to the depot when I have massive amounts of crafts, food, etc. So is anyone familiar with ways to select multiple goods at once? Maybe a "start" and "end" tags (for lack of a better name) and every good caught inbetween is designated to be moved to the depot? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 14:47 10 November 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Nope. About the best you can do is use the select (search) menu to get all the ones of the type you want, then enter-down-enter-down. You can flag about 200 a minute this way, though.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:17, 10 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::That's what I was doing previously. Are there any plans for a "mass selector" to be introduced? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 16:50 10 November 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:::Not that I know of. Make a feature request on the [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php forums].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 10 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::AFAIK, there is no good way to do this from the trade screen, which is why it's important to set up custom stockpiles and have plenty of bins. Man, I really wish you could make bins out of stone.<br />
<br />
== Merchant moods ==<br />
<br />
My fortress hadn't been doing too well, but I didn't know it was so bad it could affect merchants... and their pack animals. As the last merchant was about to leave the map, he suddenly went berserk and was cut down by his bodyguard, who then fled the scene. Shortly thereafter, I recieved a message that the donkey had been stricken by melacholy. Has anyone else had this happen?<br />
<br />
:They usually eventually go nuts if they can't leave for some reason. Never heard of something like what you're describing.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:24, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== No more dwarven caravan ==<br />
<br />
So. The Dwarven caravan has not come in the past two years. I think, though I am not sure, that this corresponds with when I met the requirements for the Incoming King, though he has not yet seen fit to arrive. I believe I also capped the population sometime in there, but I think it was after the first year of no caravan. I don't recall in any way molesting previous caravans. I needs me some dolomite and steel bars, anyone know what's going on here? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 02:10, 13 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:So. I upper the population cap to encourage some immigration, and after a few seasons, the King showed up with his retinue and the Hammerer, who had apparently died at some point. I re-capped the population, and the caravan came next autumn. Was it the incoming king or the dead hammerer? Did the population cap interfere with the king's arrival? The mystery remains. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 14:59, 2 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== A query from the deleted page Talk:Stealing ==<br />
<br />
I've read many times that the traders count their total losses/profits when they leave the edge of the map, so as to make stealing of any sort impossible (to get away with, anyhow). Does this include what the guards are carrying (if they get killed or even just shoot off some bolts)? Or is the "total profit" concept true at all? --[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:07, 27 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I'm pretty sure that the total profit concept is how it works. The value of everything the traders enter with is subtracted from the value of everything the traders leave with to calculate profit. There's probably something in there to account for the death of (a) trader(s). --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 21:42, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Wagon movement ==<br />
<br />
I'm pretty sure that wagons cannot move diagonally. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:08, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Arrival dates ==<br />
<br />
Out of curiosity, has anybody given a closer look at the exact arrival dates of trade caravans? Do they always arrive at a fixed time, or does it hover inside a certain period during the month or season?</div>Shurikanehttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Trading&diff=3608540d Talk:Trading2008-12-30T03:07:51Z<p>Shurikane: /* Culling on mandates */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Archive|<br />
# The [[Talk:Trading/Talk Caravan|talk page]] from Caravan, which wasn't merged properly at the time.<br />
# The [[Talk:Trading/archive1|first archive]] of Talk:Trading.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Culling on mandates ==<br />
<br />
what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: "Mayor has put bans on certain exports". But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::I am quite sure that "culling on mandates: on" hides all bins containing items which have active Noble Export Bans. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 09:16, 13 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::I made a "trading color cues" subsection. This should cover relevant info about mandates and other things. --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:07, 29 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Trading flowchart ==<br />
{{:Trading/Flowchart}}<br />
Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)<br />
<br />
Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right<br />
{|cellpadding="2" border="1" width=400|<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})<br />
|-<br />
| Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})<br />
Check green area reaches edge of map<br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map<br />
"A--- caravan from --- has arrived."<br />
|-<br />
| Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot<br />
"Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods"<br />
|-<br />
| Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded <br />
|-<br />
| colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]<br />
:Ask and ye shall receive (see right, editable at [[Trading/Flowchart]]). --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT) <br />
::'''Re: Adeptable's changes'''<br>I don't think the third branch is neccesary. For one, it makes it seem too wide, and secondary it implies that turning off the trader's labours ''all the time'' means that trading will happen faster - almost as if it will make merchants arrive more often. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 23:36, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::I'd add retrieving empty bins to the bottom so that you don't end up with empty bins sitting at the depot. When stockpiles are crowded you'll need them to deal with the sudden influx of goods. (Never give away bins!) I bow to your wiki-fu, I simply could not edit your flowchart... --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:15, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Yeah, it's a bit tricky I guess. It's all in the colspan :p. But, ahhh, how do you retreive them? I thought dwarves would automatically fetch empty bins from the depot if they needed them, just like fetching them from any other location. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 18:31, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== How many wagons? ==<br />
<br />
I don't think I've ever seen more than 8 wagons in a given caravan. Is that the limit? Has anyone ever seen more than 8?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:01, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Mass selection of goods to be moved ==<br />
<br />
Question: Is there a way to designate multiple goods in one selection to be brought to the depot? <br />
<br />
I'm getting really tired of indivually selecting goods to be moved to the depot when I have massive amounts of crafts, food, etc. So is anyone familiar with ways to select multiple goods at once? Maybe a "start" and "end" tags (for lack of a better name) and every good caught inbetween is designated to be moved to the depot? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 14:47 10 November 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Nope. About the best you can do is use the select (search) menu to get all the ones of the type you want, then enter-down-enter-down. You can flag about 200 a minute this way, though.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:17, 10 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::That's what I was doing previously. Are there any plans for a "mass selector" to be introduced? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 16:50 10 November 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:::Not that I know of. Make a feature request on the [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php forums].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 10 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::AFAIK, there is no good way to do this from the trade screen, which is why it's important to set up custom stockpiles and have plenty of bins. Man, I really wish you could make bins out of stone.<br />
<br />
== Merchant moods ==<br />
<br />
My fortress hadn't been doing too well, but I didn't know it was so bad it could affect merchants... and their pack animals. As the last merchant was about to leave the map, he suddenly went berserk and was cut down by his bodyguard, who then fled the scene. Shortly thereafter, I recieved a message that the donkey had been stricken by melacholy. Has anyone else had this happen?<br />
<br />
:They usually eventually go nuts if they can't leave for some reason. Never heard of something like what you're describing.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:24, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== No more dwarven caravan ==<br />
<br />
So. The Dwarven caravan has not come in the past two years. I think, though I am not sure, that this corresponds with when I met the requirements for the Incoming King, though he has not yet seen fit to arrive. I believe I also capped the population sometime in there, but I think it was after the first year of no caravan. I don't recall in any way molesting previous caravans. I needs me some dolomite and steel bars, anyone know what's going on here? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 02:10, 13 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:So. I upper the population cap to encourage some immigration, and after a few seasons, the King showed up with his retinue and the Hammerer, who had apparently died at some point. I re-capped the population, and the caravan came next autumn. Was it the incoming king or the dead hammerer? Did the population cap interfere with the king's arrival? The mystery remains. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 14:59, 2 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== A query from the deleted page Talk:Stealing ==<br />
<br />
I've read many times that the traders count their total losses/profits when they leave the edge of the map, so as to make stealing of any sort impossible (to get away with, anyhow). Does this include what the guards are carrying (if they get killed or even just shoot off some bolts)? Or is the "total profit" concept true at all? --[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:07, 27 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I'm pretty sure that the total profit concept is how it works. The value of everything the traders enter with is subtracted from the value of everything the traders leave with to calculate profit. There's probably something in there to account for the death of (a) trader(s). --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 21:42, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Wagon movement ==<br />
<br />
I'm pretty sure that wagons cannot move diagonally. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:08, 11 December 2008 (EST)</div>Shurikanehttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Strange_mood&diff=525540d Talk:Strange mood2008-12-27T17:04:56Z<p>Shurikane: /* Time limit of a mood. */</p>
<hr />
<div>Does the new version still have the strange mood? It wouldnt be complete without it!<br />
<br />
:It still exists, I've had it happen several times now, I went to the archive wiki and copy/pasted the old page.<br />
<br />
::Isnt that why the wiki was nuked? To make sure that no old info lingers? Ill put some "verify" in there, I dont think that the bold text is enough for users to understand that some of this may no longer apply. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 06:03, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::I agree. Although moods themselves don't seem to have been changed in this version, the changes to the stones/ores that they use means that some of the information in this article is no longer true. I'll have a go at cleaning it up when I have the proper time for it, but this wiki definitely needs a 'no copypasting from the archives' rule to avoid screwups like this. If people are going to copypaste old stuff, then it is downright irresponsible of them not to verify the accuracy of the information before committing it to the wiki. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]<br />
<br />
I know, I was a huge fan of that little strange aspect of the old one.<br />
<br />
I need my dwarfs to make more swordfish bone swords, and i still need some glass weapons/armor<br />
<br />
The moods seem to have changed. One of my dwarfs went fey, made a nice hematite mug, and is now a legendary... Engraver. Very wierd, he also had no stoneworking or other craftdwarf skills. But he was a competent mason. This was also my fifth dwarf who took the same craftworkshop, so it's a bit strange. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 17:36, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Six fey dwarf, all took the craftdwarfshop, now my bowyer took one. Think it might be a bug. Is the 15 artifacts limit still in? --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:34, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:: Whohoo my second legendary engraver made a gold mug. My bowyer became a legendary engraver. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:40, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::: Scratch all that, one of my woodworkers just used a carpenters shop. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Have you marked all statements in the article that risks being falsified with <nowiki>{{verify}}</nowiki>? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:41, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
Hey, I am getting a dwarf who wants "raw...crystal". Help? -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]<br />
:Probably wants raw crystal glass. I had a dwarf ask for "raw...green", they wanted raw green glass. Looks like Toady might have moved the glass demands out of the "rough...color" category. [[User:Iddq?|Iddq?]]<br />
<br />
About the engravers taking over craftdwarf's shops and becoming legendary engravers afterwards is quite true. I recently got a bunch of immigrants, and the engraver that came with them fell into a strange mood before even crossing the bridge on my river. He took over a craftdwarf's workshop and made a basalt scepter, and now he's legendary level in engraving. So yeah, perfect laboratory conditions, he was 100% engraver when he went into his mood and came out a legendary engraver. --[[User:Zhang5|Zhang5]] 17:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
It seems that no craft skill is required. I just had a peasant go into a strange mood. His skills were: competent marksdwarf; novice wrestler; novice armor wearer. He grabbed a craftsdwarf's workshop and 10 items (3xFelsite, Schorls, Tigereyes, Red Beryls, Giant cave swallow leather, Grizzly Bear Leather, Rough harlequin opals and Ash logs -- guess he has expensive taste?) and churned out an idol in relatively short order. This is my 9th successful mood in this fortress, and I've seen requests for between 3 and 10 items, personally. Since they seem to be increasing in complexity, I've either hit the item cap, or I'm about to break ten :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:34, 19 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:This is consistent with older versions. Moody peasants would become crafters, and 10 items was the cap. The minimum was 1 item -- generally when constructing a "perfect gem".--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:55, 19 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
I had a miner go into a strange mood, take over a mason's workshop, and make a something that got him up to legendary miner status. In my current fort, I have had 6 artifacts made, 2 of which were actual moods and 5 of which were possessions (I can add, one of them failed and the dwarf became a babbling wreck). My dwarves love to use only one item: an oak door (1 item), an olivine coffin (2 items), a turtle shell mask (1 item and is my cheapest artifiact at 3600), a diorite amulet (3 items), and a perfect jelly opal (1 item). --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
Where to add the info that in my game (.33c) a miner took over a mason's workshop, became legendary miner and then held the artifact in his right hand instead of a pick, which became 'hauled', then droped the pick and then took the pick with his left hand? He can mine after all these. While holding a 667 weight units cabinet in his right hand. --[[User:Another|Another]] 10:07, 1 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
I had dwarf Miller, profecienty Grower who had Fey Mood, and he became a Legendary Mason ....<br />
Is it normal ? [[user:Feydreva|Feydreva]]<br />
<br />
<br />
One of my dwarves has become possessed and is demanding cloth, bones and stone, which I have plenty of. But he refuses to go fetch them. Is there something I'm doing wrong?<small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] ([[User talk:Patarak|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Patarak|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
: They want either silk or fiber cloth. Make sure you have both! [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 03:40, 21 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
Aargh! One of my dwarves went secretive and is demanding a huge list of stuff. He seems to be demanding two types of stone because the "sketches quarry" message stays on twice as long as the others. I have (and he has gathered) flint: is there any way to tell what kind of stone he wants? --[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 011:55, 7 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
I had a Glassmaker that sat around when I had a lot of Magma Glass Furnaces, but then decided to get going when I made a regular Glass Furnace. Seems like they will only use a specific kind. Not sure yet if it's random. Might be they won't take the Magma Glass Furnace in version 38a. Can anyone verify? --[[User:Afbee|Afbee]] 05:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
: My Glassmaker successfully used Magma Glass Furnace in a fey mood. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 07:54, 24 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:: I just had the same problem. I had a glass maker who wouldn't take over a magma glass furnace. Since I'm creating a glass fortress and had a mess of glass orders piled up, I thought that might have confused the AI and I built 2 more magma glass furnaces. No dice, he didn't want them. After reading this page I decided to create a normal glass furnace. He snapped it up as soon as it was built. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 04:07, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Maximum number of artifacts==<br />
Well, I just got my umpteenth mood, and it resulted in the 16th successfully created artifact.(33b) So that 15 cap thing is clearly wrong. As it happens, this single artifact is worth 754,800, and is an adamantine spear decorated with, among other things, adamantine. For the record, in case this data is important to someone tabulating number of ingredients, my moods in order created the following objects using the corresponding number of ingredients: (Flute, 4; Mechanism, 4; Spear, 3; Millstone, 6; Ring, 8; Chest, 7; Cape, 7; Ring, 9; Statue, 8; Idol, 10; earring, 8; Buckler, 8; Table, 3; Mechanism, 10; Bracelet, 5; and Spear, 8). [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:54, 27 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
Do fell/macabre moods still exist? I haven't seen any for quite a few versions. It'd be nice to have that verified.<small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] ([[User talk:Rabek|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rabek|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
<br />
== clarification on "trade" skills ==<br />
<br />
Are trade skills all the skills that produce items with some level of quality? Mainly I want to know if dyer is a trade skill. And how does that work with miner? I didn't think miner was a trade skill. Maybe someone who knows more than me could clarify in the wiki.<br />
I just got my first artifact. It's worth 2400. The dwarf took one log and made a scepter. -[[User:Radtse|Radtse]]<br />
<br />
:I don't know exactly, we should make a list of the skills we know are not trade skills. I'll start: my brewer/grower once got a strange mood and made a wood item and gained woodcrafting skill. Let's try to only add to the list when we have experienced a moody dwarf with that skill only.--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 19:36, 27 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::I'm adding Weaver and Furnace Operator to this list, since they're on the wiki. I haven't seen them myself, but I'm assuming someone else has. Knowing that Furnace Operator is a "fey-able" skill will be quite helpful.-[[User:Radtse|Radtse]] 18:28, 29 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Where's cooking fit in? --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 20:09, 6 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
List of non-trade skills:<br />
<br />
* [[Brewer]]<br />
* [[Grower]]<br />
* [[Miller]]<br />
* [[Wood Cutter]]<br />
<br />
Skills that may be used and gained by dwarves with no trade skills:<br />
<br />
* [[Wood crafter]]<br />
* [[Stone crafter]]<br />
<br />
Skills that use a different skill(See list above), but give correct skill:<br />
<br />
* [[Miner]]<br />
* [[Engraver]]<br />
* [[Furnace Operator]]<br />
* [[Weaver]]<br />
<br />
:::For the record, i can confirm both Furnace Operator and Weaver, since no one else has commented to verify them thus far. (The weaver actually surprised me when it happened). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 29 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::I can confirm that a Miner will claim a Mason's shop, and produce a stone item, even with no Mason skill at all. It works just like the wiki says. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 23:47, 31 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::And I can confirm that Wood Cutter does not contribute -- I had a Novice Glassmaker/No Prefix Wood Cutter take a glass furnace. [[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 13:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== mood condition ==<br />
The 20 dwarves / no crazy stuff has been found while looking at the binary of v0.27.169.33d, might be different now, but i don't think so. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 15:08, 2 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
Regarding the calulations for required maximum existing artifacts (items/200 and dugout/(48*48)) wouldn't it make more sense to either use the squared symbol, or the actual result of that square (which was the original number actually discovered/revealed I believe)? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:17, 28 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
:<su<b></b>p>2</su<b></b>p> --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 21:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:20 dorf must be still there. I've made low-population fort and I had no mood for ~8 years (from start). I'm sure that I've digged at least 2700 tiles and created at least 300 items. I will test if raising population to 20 will cause moods. I think that 20 dwarf limit should be mentioned even if it's not confirmed. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 18:30, 26 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Random Workshop Seizure ==<br />
<br />
I just had a gem cutter seize a carpenter's workshop and make a perfect gem; upon completion I had a worthless Legendary dwarf and a new jeweler's workshop, so I guess that's still in from the previous version. I've removed the verify in the article. [[User:Tacroy|Tacroy]] 16:51, 9 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:nonsense. Should be a bigger chance of making ZOMG high-quality gem crafts now ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 07:35, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::More to the point, if you don't like the profession your dwarf has Legendary in...draft for the stats! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== forbidden items ==<br />
<br />
Do moody dwarfs use forbidden items? Will they demand forbid items? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 02:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I don't know whether moody dwarves will use forbidden items (my guess would be they won't). But they don't choose the demands based on what is on the map, they can and do demand things you don't have. So it's safe to assume forbidding doesn't prevent dwarves from demanding the forbidden kind of item. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::Forbidden items are not used. Similarly, if your mooder slipped in e.g. an iron bar when you wanted him to use a platinum bar, you can forbid AND dump the item to stop him from using it. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:35, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Impossible Requests? ==<br />
Will dwarves try to use items that you just don't have access to? I had a dwarf asking for silk when I haven't imported any and I'm pretty sure there isn't a giant spider anywhere. Also asking for "rocks" when I have mined at least one of each type of rock that is visible (requiring rocks from unmined areas seem pretty harsh). Also a request for "metal bars" when I have smeltered at least one of each ore I have found and made at least one of each possible alloy. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:27, 26 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:Yeah, impossible stuff is all my dwarves ever want. :-P Right now mine appears to want stone I don't have, and no traders have come by with any stone.... So my guys are frantically mining in various directions.... [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 13:59, 7 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::As far as i can tell they never request anything it is truly impossible for you to get. Available by trade seems to imply possible for the game engine though. Too bad if its the start of winter (which is when all my moods which require things I don't have and can't produce happen, of course). But if there's no sand on your map at all you will not be asked for glass, since you can't trade for sand. (If there's 5 tiles of sand under that underground lake you haven't found yet... sucks to be you - my first fortress lost 3 dwarves to this). So yes, requiring things present on the map that you haven't found yet appears to be possible and routine. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:48, 29 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Procastinator! ==<br />
<br />
I just had a moody dwarf demand bones, wood, rocks, and cloth. <br />
<br />
He got the rocks okay, and then did nothing for ages. Then, as soon as the fire imp corpse rotted away, he ran down and got the bones, then ran over to my wood stockpile and got a piece of wood...<br />
<br />
Do they need to get their ingredients in order now?--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 06:28, 29 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:i think so, not that it matters, he wont start unless he has ALL the ingridents.<br />
<br />
== gems ==<br />
My moody dwarf asked for 2 kinds of rough gems, but i had cut all rough ones at that point. So i "printed out" all layers and started checking for leftover gems in the walls. Guess what, he picked the first 2 kinds i mined. So either<br />
<br />
* random/pure luck (don't think so)<br />
* they only ask what they "see"<br />
* they only ask what is somehow on the map<br />
* or they might even adapt somewhat to availability, but i doubt that. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:59, 28 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
:I believe, but don't know for sure, that sometimes they want specific items and sometimes they just want anything in a category of items, such as any rough gems in this case. It used to work that way in the 2d version, didn't it? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:23, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
::Confirming behaviour that BahamutZERO sees. Dwarves will '''always''' grab the closest object that falls under the category unless he is requesting a specific metal, specific silk, or specific plant fiber cloth. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:25, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Just standing around? ==<br />
<br />
I have a dwarf who was possessed, but won't leave the main hall. He's also a novice in everything, but to be safe I've already cleared the shops. It's winter of my first year, but somehow I've already had 2 waves of immigrants. Back to the point, I'm afraid he's going to wait out the mood and go berserk. Help?<br />
--[[User:Ilmmad|Ilmmad]] 20:00, 6 March 2008 (EST)<br />
:Well, make sure u ve got one workshop of every possible kind available - there are however quite a few u dont need to build, its covered in the article. Check for locked doors or otherwise blocked access (bridges, channels, statues..) Dont forget furnaces, glass and magma. Check with 'q' if all workshops are completely build. If it doesnt help consider building workshops not related to his skills, or more "exotic" ones, like Ashery or Alchemist. No one can guarantee that Toady didnt have some new fun ideas ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:59, 6 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== stark raving suicide ==<br />
<br />
My mechanic wanted silk cloth, which I didn't have, and eventually gone insane ("stark raving mad" to be precise).<br />
Seconds after that I had message that he died in heat (I had artificial magma pool nearby).<br />
He probably jumped into the pool like in melancholy. Main article states that only melancholic dwarves kill themselves in such way.<br />
Could anyone confirm that mad ones do that too, and this wasn't just an accident/bug? [[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 16:59, 19 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Perhaps it ''was'' an accident -- I seem to recall that "stark raving mad" ones wander around at random. Perhaps it wandered into the lava. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 18:30, 19 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::It was an accident, the stark raving mad ones wander around aimlessly, regardless of Z- levels. --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 12:53, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Glassmaker with no glass ==<br />
<br />
I had an immigrant glassworker get a mood, seize a glass workshop, and created an artifact made entirely of gemstones. No glass involved or asked for. (No sand on the map, anyway.) He turned into a Legendary Glassworker, despite having never made a glass anything.<br />
<br />
== Rewrite ==<br />
<br />
I think I got most of the old information and then some into the new article. Please make any necessary modifications. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 01:22, 10 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Silk Cloth ==<br />
<br />
I had a dwarf demand silk cloth, but he refused to use my giant cave spider silk cloth. I didn't have any regular cave spider silk cloth. To verify that the silk was the problem, I used Companion to change the silk demand to any stone, and he immediately collected the rest of the materials and constructed the artifact.<br />
Can anyone else confirm that giant cave spider silk cloth does '''not''' count as silk cloth? --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:55, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
:No, I'm pretty sure I can't. I've seen a dwarf grab GCS silk.<br>Could it be that you had thread and not cloth? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:59, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
::Nope, giant cave spider cloth [3] sorted under cloth on the stock screen. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 16:52, 13 May 2008 (EDT) <br />
Probably they may specifically require GCS silk or specifically require CS silk. &mdash;[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 14:10, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
I figured it out - the silk was outside and I had accidentally left "Dwarves Stay Inside" on after the latest attack. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:52, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Engineer taken by secretive mood, and creates... ==<br />
<br />
Evidently engineers who are taken by a secretive mood ("withdraws from society", in case it's later determined that the descriptor has an effect) will have no problems taking over the mechanic's workshop. And there's only one thing mechanic-shops build - that's right, you heard right, ladies and gentlemen, I present ''Kodor ós: A claystone mechanism''. It's even available for use from the appropriate {{k|b}})uild screens. He decided to make this splendid 86,400o creation while on an eight-mechanism binge in that very same mechanic's workshop. Maybe dwarves choose the workshop they've been in the most often? --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Ah, actually I can confirm I've had a Mechanic create an artifact mechanism as well. Stick some obsidian swords in that baby and you'll be good to go! That should probably go in the main article for skills vs workshops... I would expect siege engineers also have strange moods, but I imagine pump op and siege op fall under the general craftsman catch-all --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 15:45, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
::I'd like to smack BismuthBismuthBismuth with the facts stated in the article.<br />
A dwarf will claim a workshop according to their highest applicable skill<br />
::In this case it was Engineering and therefore your mechanic went to a Mechanic's Workshop. It's the same with the possessed glassmakers. They hit a glassmaker's shop. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:49, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::I'd like to hit GreyMario-Maria, preferably in the upper-body region, with the fact that at the time of my post, the table in the article did not mention mechanics whatsoever. --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 22:26, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::Pardon me, but I was not aware that ''mechanics'' worked at a ''mechanic's workshop'', where objects are created that have ''quality mofidiers'' and can thus become ''artifacts''. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:28, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::::Pardon me as well, but it seems that the table in [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&oldid=25231 this particular revision] did not encapsulate this information. '''GreyMario is throwing a tantrum!''' --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:22, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::::Mechanics. Work at a mechanic's workshop. Produce items which have visible quality modifiers. Items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to be artifacts. THEREFORE, mechanics claim mechanic's workshops when they go fey. Seriously, logic sometimes, please? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:30, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::::::That would follow if we knew for certain that the proposition "items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to artifacts" is necessarily true. We don't. For instance, siege engine components are <i>not</i> verified as artifact eligible. Since that isn't a given, it's perfectly reasonable for people to not jump to the conclusion that a job type will create artifacts relevant to it until they see it happen. &mdash;[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 16:26, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
i love the absurd randomness factor with artifacts - you end up with really weird stuff. like grates, and socks. a question pertinent to legendary mechanisms - i got a stupidly valuable one of these as the first legendary item in a new fort and i used it to create a gear assembly in a public dining area in the hopes that it would give dwarves happy thoughts, but after a few years gametime of checking randomly on them nothing particular showed up. any particular use along these lines for legendary mechanisms for something other then simple fortress value? --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 11:51, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
: weapon traps! --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 12:03, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:: FWIW, that might be a more general answer for artifact items... I had a Weaponsmith dwarf go into a strange mood and create a lead warhammer (Yes, there was plenty of steel and iron around, but this dwarf likes lead, I guess). It can't be equipped as a weapon (lead isn't a valid material type normally for constructing weapons) but I can put it into a weapons trap. Which... is basically the only thing I can do with this 65000* artifact... -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:37, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
::: Actually, artifact equipment can be used, it just requires a "hero" level dwarf or higher. However, for the nonstandard material weapons and armor you may do well to forbid them so that they're not used. The actual effectiveness of odd material artifacts is supposedly lower than that of decent iron or steel equipment, and artifact equipment cannot be unequipped once a dwarf decides to use it. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 15:36, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Build your artifact mechanism into a really, really, really wonderful well. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 11:37, 13 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Tanner fixed ==<br />
<br />
I just had a Tanner claim a leather works, not a tannery. I updated the table. For the record, the dwarf has no skill level in leather working.<br />
<br />
:I wonder if Tanners even claim Tanner's shops? Tanner's shops just make leather, and leather doesn't have quality modifiers, so you shouldn't be able to produce an artifact from one, aye? That information came from an older version of the page, I wonder if it was inaccurate. Weavers supposed claim Clothier's shops and not Looms, so it would make sense if Tanners were the same way. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 18:08, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Cooks ==<br />
<br />
I can confirm that cooks do not produce artifacts: my Peasant with Dabbling Cook/Brewer/(various social) and nothing else just took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop. I'm removing the verify tag for cooks in the article. --[[User:Comonad|Comonad]] 16:16, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
mmmm. . . . artifact roast. [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 19:12, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Soapers etc. ==<br />
<br />
It stands to reason that soapers, lye makers, and wood burners wouldn't make artifacts. Neither soap, lye, charcoal, nor ash have quality modifiers, and that's all those skills can produce. I'm pretty sure you can't have artifact soap, lye, charcoal, or ash. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 20:26, 11 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: My woodburner just got possessed. He wants a shell and wood. I have the shell but I'm not sure what type of wood he wants. --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 20:18, 22 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Not all demands need to be met ==<br />
<br />
I just had a dwarf taken by a secretive mood and collect a huge variety of things: 4 stone, 1 block, 1 gem, 2 rough gems, bones, a shell, 2 leather. He was further sketching for more bones, 2 leather, another stone, a log, another shell, and raw green glass. The only things I didn't have on hand were the shell and the green glass -- dwarves seem to go through their list in order, and get stuck on certain items. <br />
<br />
I just hoped someone would eat a turtle (50/1678 chance!) and queued a raw green glass. When the glass was made, he got started, totally ignoring his previous requests for wood, another shell, and the other things. Anyone else have this experience? [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 13:28, 13 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I think they keep sketching images even after they get the items. Your dwarf already had all of the shells, leather, bones, stones, blocks, and gems he needed. [[User:Curudan|Curudan]] 15:26, 22 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::This is correct. I've had dwarves run out, grab two items, and then sit at the Workshop shouting a need for three items. When the item he was waiting on became available, he ran out, grabbed it, went back in, and started working. So it's pretty evident that they list ALL of the items they want, regardless of how many of them they've already collected. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 22:28, 23 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Possession ==<br />
<br />
I've had 14 moods in my current Fortress, 11 of them have been possessions. Am I really unlucky, or is the type of mood weighted? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 26 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
: As far as I can tell by looking at the game logic, each mood types are as likely to be rolled (except fell of course, which is selected if happiness<rand(128) or something like that). --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:56, 3 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:: I had a feeling I was just getting really unlucky, thanks. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:34, 3 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Furnace Operator ==<br />
<br />
Apparently furnace operator is no longer a mood skill as of df 28 181 40d. I just had a expert furnace operator take over a Craftdwarf's Workshop and become a legendary stonecrafter. [[User:Otherdwarf|Otherdwarf]] 10:26, 1 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I had one take over a mason's workshop, I would guess that Furnace Operator is treating like Engraver or Miner. I'm kind of disappointed, I was hoping he'd churn out an artifact coke or something.[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 13:03, 14 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Back when furnace operator was moodable, they'd turn out metal crafts. But taking over a mason's workshop is surprising. Occasionally they'll take over a random workshop and convert it into the type they want -- what artifact did the dwarf produce? And, just to rule out some obvious things, did the dwarf have dabbling skill in mining, masonry, or engraving?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:51, 14 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::He went crazy looking for some kind of rough gem, so we'll never know. It was ''right'' after the dwarf trading caravan left, too, so I really had no chance whatsoever. I don't know for sure what skills he had, I don't think he had much other than Furnace Operator, Architect, and the social skills though. I ''might'' have enabled mining, but there was plenty of work for him at the smelter so I don't know for sure.--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 15:56, 14 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Chunk Butchery? ==<br />
<br />
Well, even though the selection of items for artifacts is totally random, its a bit wierd if a macabre dwarf goes to a butcher's workshop and starts bringing in tons of dwarf CHUNKS! My dwarf just started doing that, should I expect rotting meat (yes, the chunks are already rotten)? - 09:57, 30 October 2008 Stinhad Limarezum <br />
: ^_^ "This is a delicious meat pie. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. On the item is an image of a dwarf and dwarves in rotting dwarf chunks. The dwarf is baking the other dwarves into meat pies. The artwork relates to the rise of the dwarf butcher Sweeney Todd as the cook of The Fleet Street in 78" -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:11, 30 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Oh, ''do'' post the description of the artifact when the dwarf completes it. ("Menaces with spikes of dwarf chunk?" I'd be intimidated for sure.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:18, 30 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== What Workshop? ==<br />
<br />
Is there <em>any</em> way to discover what workshop a dwarf in a secretive mood requires? I had nearly everything. I built a siege workshop and a bowery before I ran out of ideas and he went beserk. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 10:55, 3 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:You have to look at what skills he has first and rule out the obvious. If he has no mood-able skills then it's going to be a craftsdwarf's workshop. If you have hit magma and he wants a forge or glass furnace, he will insist on the magma version of that workshop. Finally, maybe one of your existing workshops was inaccessible or you accidentally [[forbid]] it at some point. If none of that works, I'm out of ideas too.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:01, 3 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::I have a functioning magma glass furnace and I had to build a normal glass furnace when my glass maker became secretive. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:23, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::Same here, in fact I had 2 moody glass making dwarves refuse to use anything but a normal glass furnace when there were 5 fully functional magma glass furnaces in the same fort. (sorry, almost forgot to sign) --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:27, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Ah. In older versions, they'd insist on a magma workshop, when possible. Do they now insist on using a regular workshop, or has anyone seen a moody dwarf use a magma workshop in recent versions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::::I believe my metalsmith is waiting for my magma forge to come on line, I have a standard forge built, but that isn't doing anything for him. Does anyone know what effect fluctuating power will have on the strange mood? Edit: If a claimed workshop looses power for even a millisecond, the mood fails. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 12:02, 18 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Possessed Child ==<br />
<br />
I have a child that has become possessed and taken over one of my craft workshops (of course). He is muttering the following: rough color, leather skin, bone yes, stone rock, cloth thread, blocks bricks, and a shell. He has already acquired the following: turtle bones, donkey bones [4], microcline blocks, turtle shell, rough pink garnets, dog leather, carp leather, and hematite. I have plenty of all the things that he's already gathered, so I'm assuming that he doesn't need anymore of those items. That leaves the thread. I have turned off my auto-loom a while ago so that I would keep the thread around for artifacts. I currently have plenty of plant thread (4 pig tail and 14 rope reed) and enough spider silk (5). What I don't have is giant spider silk. I have confirmed that the child has access to all these items, including the thread which I have piles next to his workshop. Still he doesn't start construction.<br />
<br />
Can any help? Is there a difference for artifact creation between regular cave spider silk and giant cave spider silk? ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]<br />
<br />
:Do you have both silk and plant cloth available? (Not just thread.) And do you see any specific cloth preferences in his thoughts and preferences screen?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:32, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Argh. I bet that's it. No silk cloth, just thread. I have had guys go crazy for lack of thread before, so I never make silk cloth, just kept the thread. Oh well, the child is now melancholy. I can re-load and see what would happen if I make the thread into cloth. Maybe I'll test that out. ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]<br />
<br />
::: Wouldn't you be able to solve this problem by only weaving dyed thread? Then you'll always have some thread waiting to be dyed. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 03:04, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::You could also leave high quality, expensive materials lying around Forbidden, and only Claim them when someone's trying to make an artifact. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 15:07, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Getting More Strange Moods ==<br />
<br />
According to the article, the number of artifacts is limited by "The number of items created divided by 200." This indicates that making bolts (5 for each bone or 25 for each log) or brewing (5 units of drink for each unit of plant brewed) are efficient ways to encourage strange moods. Does that sound accurate?<br />
<br />
It also states that the number of revealed subterranean tiles is a limit. Does that mean an area like a chasm, where many tiles are revealed to start with, will produce more strange moods?<br />
<br />
Also, does anyone know whether the division rounds up or down? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 22:24, 16 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I'd be willing to bet all stacks count as only one "item" for this kind of calculation. 200 sounds like a paltry number, however. If rocks are counted as items, most fortresses have thousands of them in just a few years. The other number is what is most significant (I wonder where the heck it comes from?) I've had four miners digging non-stop for about 10 years now, and my stocks menu says I have 70,000 stones. Allowing for underground soil tiles (which don't produce stone) and stone/ore consumed by industry, each miner can probably clear about 2,000 tiles a year: one artifact. I have 21 artifacts in my fortress now (and two failed moods early on), so if that rate is indicative, I'd say you want to employ three or more miners non-stop to maximize your chances.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:09, 17 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::The guy who wrote [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stone_management#Block_Stockpile this] doesn't seem to think that stones count as created items. Also, "revealed tiles" is ambiguous. For example, [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Exploratory_mining#Mine_shafts this] method is very good at showing you what's inside of a tile without actually mining it out. Do you suppose that seeing whats inside is enough?<br />
<br />
::Where do you think these numbers came from anyway? I'm gonna take a look through the edit history and try to track them down. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:15, 17 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::They came during [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&diff=25038&oldid=24936 this edit]. They're so specific I've got to think the author did some poking around with a disassembler. Again, though, 200 is such a paltry number. If underground "open space" counts, then discovering a chasm, bottomless pit, or magma pipe should many thousands thousands of revealed tiles. If underground floor tiles are needed, you'll have to mine most of them out yourself.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:34, 17 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::I had a chat with [[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] over at his talk page, since he edited the page around the time the changes were made. He seemed fairly certain that all you had to do to "reveal" a tile was to have a passable square next to it, so I edited the article to reflect that. He did not, however, know anything about how bolts or stones would affect things. Right now my hopes are on [[User:Marble_Dice|Marble Dice]], whom I believe made the actual addition. I'm not sure if he's a very active user though.<br />
<br />
::::By the way, the reason I'm doing all this is that I'm considering optimizing a fortress for strange moods: have '''lots''' of dwarves with only "dabbling" in a single strange mood skill to gain maximum benefit from the moods. Any ideas for fortress strategies that will go well with this? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 02:44, 17 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::I saw the conversation -- I keep my eye on [[Special:Recentchanges]]. What he says about "reveal" is correct, as far as I know. I still wonder about "open space" tiles. If they count as revealed, all you really need to do is find a chasm/pit/magma pipe and you'll be in moods for years to come.<br />
<br />
:::::I've done the dabbling strategy in the past. It's best to emphasize just a few skills you really really want that are otherwise hard to train due to limited materials -- armorsmith, weaponsmith, bone carver, leatherworker, carpenter, etc. It works fine with any fortress strategy.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:30, 17 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Two missing labors ==<br />
<br />
Strand Extractor and Blacksmith don't currently appear in either the Causes Moods category or the Doesn't Cause Moods category. I put Strand Extractor in Doesn't Cause Moods and the Blacksmith in Causes Moods; feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 19:59, 18 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I can confirm that blacksmith is moodable, I've got a nice steel chest to show for it. It stands to reason that strand extractor isn't moodable, but we don't know for sure -- I've slapped a verify on it.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:01, 18 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Order of stuff ==<br />
<br />
I'm wondering if dwarves always claim items in a certain order. For example, when a dwarf wants three pieces of wood he always wants them back-to-back, never wood gem wood bone wood. So are types ALWAYS in a certain order? My current moody dwarf wanted two bars of metal, then spider silk cloth, then ash logs, then bones, then a rough gem, then a shell. Knowing the order might help you guess what the dwarf wants next if he doesn't need to wait for anything (and thus tell you what he wants). This might be useful for micromanaging forbidding stuff to make sure your dwarf gets the highest value things available. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:19, 26 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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:<s>This is actually well-defined in the article, if you'd bothered to look close enough. Dwarves will gather items in the order they scream their demands in.</s> It's unknown. I think there's no real order, just similar things end up grouped together. :V --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:32, 26 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::fail. Uh, I mean, as soon as anyone else sees a strange mood, it can either be disproven, or we can start putting some data together immediately and be done pretty quick. I saw: Metal Bars, Silk Cloth, Wood, Bones, Rough Gem, Shell. If anyone sees bones before wood or something, that means there's no guaranteed order. But no harm done. :) --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:36, 26 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::It's simpler than that. Items have a certain number of slots for improvements, and for artifacts the first improvement slot is always filled by the base material of the item. Then the rest are filled in order, with whatever is a valid candidate for that slot (which is probably 'anything that's anything' in every case, though I'm not absolutely sure.) So, there isn't any explicit sorting because it has to be in order.<br />
<br />
:::If you fill an item's slots with ordinary decoration, which is easiest to do by encrusting a wide variety of gems on a piece of furniture or the like, you'll see what I mean. Maybe. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 23:40, 26 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::Ah! So you're saying that instead of generating a list of ingredients, it first plans out the artifact itself, saying "This one is a chest, it has hanging rings and an image, first let's get a material for the chest, then a material for the hanging rings, then a material for the image"? That makes a ton of sense, and answers my question. Thanks! --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:47, 26 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Well, I know it doesn't do that, because if you close the game and reopen it, you can get different items... With my elf game, I had one artifact that came out as either a thong, a left mitten, or a rope on five tries. But it's roughly the same idea, even with the details randomized upon creation. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 00:05, 27 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Fell Mood Demands ==<br />
<br />
It looks like when a brooding dwarf sits in the tanner's shop and says he needs "Things..." what he's looking for is vermin remains. Other demands are like in Fey moods. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 22:24, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Confusing macabre mood ==<br />
<br />
My mayor just entered one, while 'quite content', claimed a smelter, waited for a bit, until the parts appeared (the vermin must have died). He then created a roach rock chitin bracelet, and gained the carpenter skill. Am I missing something here? Smelter, rock and carpenter don't seem to mix well... Note: The only skills were proficient cook and fish cleaner, with some dabbling and noice social.--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 13:03, 6 December 2008 (EST)<br />
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:Carpenter? Or wood crafter? Claiming a smelter isn't out of the question: they sometimes grab a random workshop and turn it into the one they want (is it still a smelter?). And what is roach rock? Give the actual description of the artifact.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:14, 6 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Carpenter. It's still a smelter, yes. "This is a large roach chitin bracelet. All craftsdwaftship is of the highest quality. It is encircled with bands of large roach chitin and dwarf bone. This object menaces with spikes of rat leather."--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 15:32, 7 December 2008 (EST)<br />
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:::Hmm. Post that one on the forums, find out if it's an actual bug. Does sound pretty nonstandard.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:50, 7 December 2008 (EST)<br />
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:::: :-D Pretty sure that a roach is an actual bug. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:00, 8 December 2008 (EST)<br />
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:::::D'oh.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:56, 8 December 2008 (EST)<br />
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::::::I did have two very close together, but I am certain that neither had any carpenter skill, and the smelter was claimed.<br />
<br />
== Rough Gems ==<br />
<br />
EVERY Fey Mood that has happened for the last 3 years has required Rough Gems! Argh! Mining out an entire Z-level has found ONE GEM, which I was idiotic enough to cut the instant I found it. I do not have Rough Gems. You cannot buy Rough Gems. My fortress will die slowly and painfully without Rough Gems. Cut green glass is good enough when a fey dwarf demands cut gems, why isn't raw green glass good enough when they want rough gems? Can it be made good enough with a mod? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 11:19, 13 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Dig down to an igneous intrusive level - they have more gems. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:19, 13 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::To mod out gem-demanding fey dwarves, you could remove all gems and then generate a new world. Alternatively, if you don't mind the lack of moods, turn them off in init.txt. Personally, I highly dislike moods, since they just make it that much easier to have abundant so-called "legendary" dwarves, although the random killer effect is quite nice. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:15, 13 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Trapper?==<br />
Has anyone seen a dwarf get trapper experience from a mood? I've made a couple of artifact animal traps at this point, and all of them were by dwarves without the trapper skill who received xp in skills related to the material. (ie, my turtle-shell animal trap was made by someone who became a legendary bonecarver therefrom). I know I made a similar comment on the Trapper talk page. From the other end, I'm sure I've had immigrant trappers get moods before and have never seen a legendary trapper, although I don't recall specifically enough to be certain they had moods. But I've seen zero evidence that Trapper is actually a moodable skill. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:00, 15 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Craftdwarf's Workshop==<br />
I just had a lye maker take over a metalsmith's forge and turn out a bracelet; now he's a legendary metalcrafter. I think that "Dwarves with only the following skills will construct their artifact at a craftsdwarf's workshop..." might be too constrictive, and that such dwarves could seize any craftdwarf-related workshop (including forges and carpenter's shops), not just a craftdwarf's workshop. Anyone else observed this behavior? --[[User:Wingus|Wingus]] 09:55, 22 December 2008 (EST)<br />
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:You're certain that the dwarf in question had no experience in any other tasks? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 11:19, 22 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Yes, the lyemaker had no other (non-social) skills. He was a recent immigrant I was using as a hauler. --[[User:Wingus|Wingus]] 11:35, 22 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::There have been quite a few anomalous moods that we haven't documented properly yet.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 22 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Time limit of a mood. ==<br />
<br />
Do we have a fix on the exact time the player has to satisfy a mood before the dwarf goes insane? Any clue on whether it's fixed or variable?<br />
--[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 12:04, 27 December 2008 (EST)</div>Shurikanehttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Strange_mood&diff=525440d Talk:Strange mood2008-12-27T17:03:17Z<p>Shurikane: Time limit of a mood.</p>
<hr />
<div>Does the new version still have the strange mood? It wouldnt be complete without it!<br />
<br />
:It still exists, I've had it happen several times now, I went to the archive wiki and copy/pasted the old page.<br />
<br />
::Isnt that why the wiki was nuked? To make sure that no old info lingers? Ill put some "verify" in there, I dont think that the bold text is enough for users to understand that some of this may no longer apply. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 06:03, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:::I agree. Although moods themselves don't seem to have been changed in this version, the changes to the stones/ores that they use means that some of the information in this article is no longer true. I'll have a go at cleaning it up when I have the proper time for it, but this wiki definitely needs a 'no copypasting from the archives' rule to avoid screwups like this. If people are going to copypaste old stuff, then it is downright irresponsible of them not to verify the accuracy of the information before committing it to the wiki. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]<br />
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I know, I was a huge fan of that little strange aspect of the old one.<br />
<br />
I need my dwarfs to make more swordfish bone swords, and i still need some glass weapons/armor<br />
<br />
The moods seem to have changed. One of my dwarfs went fey, made a nice hematite mug, and is now a legendary... Engraver. Very wierd, he also had no stoneworking or other craftdwarf skills. But he was a competent mason. This was also my fifth dwarf who took the same craftworkshop, so it's a bit strange. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 17:36, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:Six fey dwarf, all took the craftdwarfshop, now my bowyer took one. Think it might be a bug. Is the 15 artifacts limit still in? --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:34, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:: Whohoo my second legendary engraver made a gold mug. My bowyer became a legendary engraver. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:40, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::: Scratch all that, one of my woodworkers just used a carpenters shop. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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:Have you marked all statements in the article that risks being falsified with <nowiki>{{verify}}</nowiki>? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:41, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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Hey, I am getting a dwarf who wants "raw...crystal". Help? -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]<br />
:Probably wants raw crystal glass. I had a dwarf ask for "raw...green", they wanted raw green glass. Looks like Toady might have moved the glass demands out of the "rough...color" category. [[User:Iddq?|Iddq?]]<br />
<br />
About the engravers taking over craftdwarf's shops and becoming legendary engravers afterwards is quite true. I recently got a bunch of immigrants, and the engraver that came with them fell into a strange mood before even crossing the bridge on my river. He took over a craftdwarf's workshop and made a basalt scepter, and now he's legendary level in engraving. So yeah, perfect laboratory conditions, he was 100% engraver when he went into his mood and came out a legendary engraver. --[[User:Zhang5|Zhang5]] 17:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
It seems that no craft skill is required. I just had a peasant go into a strange mood. His skills were: competent marksdwarf; novice wrestler; novice armor wearer. He grabbed a craftsdwarf's workshop and 10 items (3xFelsite, Schorls, Tigereyes, Red Beryls, Giant cave swallow leather, Grizzly Bear Leather, Rough harlequin opals and Ash logs -- guess he has expensive taste?) and churned out an idol in relatively short order. This is my 9th successful mood in this fortress, and I've seen requests for between 3 and 10 items, personally. Since they seem to be increasing in complexity, I've either hit the item cap, or I'm about to break ten :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:34, 19 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:This is consistent with older versions. Moody peasants would become crafters, and 10 items was the cap. The minimum was 1 item -- generally when constructing a "perfect gem".--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:55, 19 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
I had a miner go into a strange mood, take over a mason's workshop, and make a something that got him up to legendary miner status. In my current fort, I have had 6 artifacts made, 2 of which were actual moods and 5 of which were possessions (I can add, one of them failed and the dwarf became a babbling wreck). My dwarves love to use only one item: an oak door (1 item), an olivine coffin (2 items), a turtle shell mask (1 item and is my cheapest artifiact at 3600), a diorite amulet (3 items), and a perfect jelly opal (1 item). --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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Where to add the info that in my game (.33c) a miner took over a mason's workshop, became legendary miner and then held the artifact in his right hand instead of a pick, which became 'hauled', then droped the pick and then took the pick with his left hand? He can mine after all these. While holding a 667 weight units cabinet in his right hand. --[[User:Another|Another]] 10:07, 1 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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I had dwarf Miller, profecienty Grower who had Fey Mood, and he became a Legendary Mason ....<br />
Is it normal ? [[user:Feydreva|Feydreva]]<br />
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<br />
One of my dwarves has become possessed and is demanding cloth, bones and stone, which I have plenty of. But he refuses to go fetch them. Is there something I'm doing wrong?<small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] ([[User talk:Patarak|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Patarak|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
: They want either silk or fiber cloth. Make sure you have both! [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 03:40, 21 January 2008 (EST)<br />
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<br />
Aargh! One of my dwarves went secretive and is demanding a huge list of stuff. He seems to be demanding two types of stone because the "sketches quarry" message stays on twice as long as the others. I have (and he has gathered) flint: is there any way to tell what kind of stone he wants? --[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 011:55, 7 March 2008 (EST)<br />
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I had a Glassmaker that sat around when I had a lot of Magma Glass Furnaces, but then decided to get going when I made a regular Glass Furnace. Seems like they will only use a specific kind. Not sure yet if it's random. Might be they won't take the Magma Glass Furnace in version 38a. Can anyone verify? --[[User:Afbee|Afbee]] 05:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br />
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: My Glassmaker successfully used Magma Glass Furnace in a fey mood. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 07:54, 24 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:: I just had the same problem. I had a glass maker who wouldn't take over a magma glass furnace. Since I'm creating a glass fortress and had a mess of glass orders piled up, I thought that might have confused the AI and I built 2 more magma glass furnaces. No dice, he didn't want them. After reading this page I decided to create a normal glass furnace. He snapped it up as soon as it was built. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 04:07, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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==Maximum number of artifacts==<br />
Well, I just got my umpteenth mood, and it resulted in the 16th successfully created artifact.(33b) So that 15 cap thing is clearly wrong. As it happens, this single artifact is worth 754,800, and is an adamantine spear decorated with, among other things, adamantine. For the record, in case this data is important to someone tabulating number of ingredients, my moods in order created the following objects using the corresponding number of ingredients: (Flute, 4; Mechanism, 4; Spear, 3; Millstone, 6; Ring, 8; Chest, 7; Cape, 7; Ring, 9; Statue, 8; Idol, 10; earring, 8; Buckler, 8; Table, 3; Mechanism, 10; Bracelet, 5; and Spear, 8). [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:54, 27 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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Do fell/macabre moods still exist? I haven't seen any for quite a few versions. It'd be nice to have that verified.<small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] ([[User talk:Rabek|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rabek|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
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== clarification on "trade" skills ==<br />
<br />
Are trade skills all the skills that produce items with some level of quality? Mainly I want to know if dyer is a trade skill. And how does that work with miner? I didn't think miner was a trade skill. Maybe someone who knows more than me could clarify in the wiki.<br />
I just got my first artifact. It's worth 2400. The dwarf took one log and made a scepter. -[[User:Radtse|Radtse]]<br />
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:I don't know exactly, we should make a list of the skills we know are not trade skills. I'll start: my brewer/grower once got a strange mood and made a wood item and gained woodcrafting skill. Let's try to only add to the list when we have experienced a moody dwarf with that skill only.--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 19:36, 27 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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::I'm adding Weaver and Furnace Operator to this list, since they're on the wiki. I haven't seen them myself, but I'm assuming someone else has. Knowing that Furnace Operator is a "fey-able" skill will be quite helpful.-[[User:Radtse|Radtse]] 18:28, 29 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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:::Where's cooking fit in? --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 20:09, 6 January 2008 (EST)<br />
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List of non-trade skills:<br />
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* [[Brewer]]<br />
* [[Grower]]<br />
* [[Miller]]<br />
* [[Wood Cutter]]<br />
<br />
Skills that may be used and gained by dwarves with no trade skills:<br />
<br />
* [[Wood crafter]]<br />
* [[Stone crafter]]<br />
<br />
Skills that use a different skill(See list above), but give correct skill:<br />
<br />
* [[Miner]]<br />
* [[Engraver]]<br />
* [[Furnace Operator]]<br />
* [[Weaver]]<br />
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:::For the record, i can confirm both Furnace Operator and Weaver, since no one else has commented to verify them thus far. (The weaver actually surprised me when it happened). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 29 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:::I can confirm that a Miner will claim a Mason's shop, and produce a stone item, even with no Mason skill at all. It works just like the wiki says. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 23:47, 31 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:::And I can confirm that Wood Cutter does not contribute -- I had a Novice Glassmaker/No Prefix Wood Cutter take a glass furnace. [[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 13:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== mood condition ==<br />
The 20 dwarves / no crazy stuff has been found while looking at the binary of v0.27.169.33d, might be different now, but i don't think so. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 15:08, 2 January 2008 (EST)<br />
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<br />
Regarding the calulations for required maximum existing artifacts (items/200 and dugout/(48*48)) wouldn't it make more sense to either use the squared symbol, or the actual result of that square (which was the original number actually discovered/revealed I believe)? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:17, 28 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
:<su<b></b>p>2</su<b></b>p> --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 21:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:20 dorf must be still there. I've made low-population fort and I had no mood for ~8 years (from start). I'm sure that I've digged at least 2700 tiles and created at least 300 items. I will test if raising population to 20 will cause moods. I think that 20 dwarf limit should be mentioned even if it's not confirmed. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 18:30, 26 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Random Workshop Seizure ==<br />
<br />
I just had a gem cutter seize a carpenter's workshop and make a perfect gem; upon completion I had a worthless Legendary dwarf and a new jeweler's workshop, so I guess that's still in from the previous version. I've removed the verify in the article. [[User:Tacroy|Tacroy]] 16:51, 9 January 2008 (EST)<br />
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:nonsense. Should be a bigger chance of making ZOMG high-quality gem crafts now ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 07:35, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br />
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::More to the point, if you don't like the profession your dwarf has Legendary in...draft for the stats! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br />
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<br />
<br />
== forbidden items ==<br />
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Do moody dwarfs use forbidden items? Will they demand forbid items? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 02:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br />
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:I don't know whether moody dwarves will use forbidden items (my guess would be they won't). But they don't choose the demands based on what is on the map, they can and do demand things you don't have. So it's safe to assume forbidding doesn't prevent dwarves from demanding the forbidden kind of item. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::Forbidden items are not used. Similarly, if your mooder slipped in e.g. an iron bar when you wanted him to use a platinum bar, you can forbid AND dump the item to stop him from using it. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:35, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Impossible Requests? ==<br />
Will dwarves try to use items that you just don't have access to? I had a dwarf asking for silk when I haven't imported any and I'm pretty sure there isn't a giant spider anywhere. Also asking for "rocks" when I have mined at least one of each type of rock that is visible (requiring rocks from unmined areas seem pretty harsh). Also a request for "metal bars" when I have smeltered at least one of each ore I have found and made at least one of each possible alloy. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:27, 26 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:Yeah, impossible stuff is all my dwarves ever want. :-P Right now mine appears to want stone I don't have, and no traders have come by with any stone.... So my guys are frantically mining in various directions.... [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 13:59, 7 March 2008 (EST)<br />
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::As far as i can tell they never request anything it is truly impossible for you to get. Available by trade seems to imply possible for the game engine though. Too bad if its the start of winter (which is when all my moods which require things I don't have and can't produce happen, of course). But if there's no sand on your map at all you will not be asked for glass, since you can't trade for sand. (If there's 5 tiles of sand under that underground lake you haven't found yet... sucks to be you - my first fortress lost 3 dwarves to this). So yes, requiring things present on the map that you haven't found yet appears to be possible and routine. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:48, 29 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Procastinator! ==<br />
<br />
I just had a moody dwarf demand bones, wood, rocks, and cloth. <br />
<br />
He got the rocks okay, and then did nothing for ages. Then, as soon as the fire imp corpse rotted away, he ran down and got the bones, then ran over to my wood stockpile and got a piece of wood...<br />
<br />
Do they need to get their ingredients in order now?--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 06:28, 29 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:i think so, not that it matters, he wont start unless he has ALL the ingridents.<br />
<br />
== gems ==<br />
My moody dwarf asked for 2 kinds of rough gems, but i had cut all rough ones at that point. So i "printed out" all layers and started checking for leftover gems in the walls. Guess what, he picked the first 2 kinds i mined. So either<br />
<br />
* random/pure luck (don't think so)<br />
* they only ask what they "see"<br />
* they only ask what is somehow on the map<br />
* or they might even adapt somewhat to availability, but i doubt that. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:59, 28 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
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<br />
:I believe, but don't know for sure, that sometimes they want specific items and sometimes they just want anything in a category of items, such as any rough gems in this case. It used to work that way in the 2d version, didn't it? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:23, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
::Confirming behaviour that BahamutZERO sees. Dwarves will '''always''' grab the closest object that falls under the category unless he is requesting a specific metal, specific silk, or specific plant fiber cloth. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:25, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Just standing around? ==<br />
<br />
I have a dwarf who was possessed, but won't leave the main hall. He's also a novice in everything, but to be safe I've already cleared the shops. It's winter of my first year, but somehow I've already had 2 waves of immigrants. Back to the point, I'm afraid he's going to wait out the mood and go berserk. Help?<br />
--[[User:Ilmmad|Ilmmad]] 20:00, 6 March 2008 (EST)<br />
:Well, make sure u ve got one workshop of every possible kind available - there are however quite a few u dont need to build, its covered in the article. Check for locked doors or otherwise blocked access (bridges, channels, statues..) Dont forget furnaces, glass and magma. Check with 'q' if all workshops are completely build. If it doesnt help consider building workshops not related to his skills, or more "exotic" ones, like Ashery or Alchemist. No one can guarantee that Toady didnt have some new fun ideas ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:59, 6 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== stark raving suicide ==<br />
<br />
My mechanic wanted silk cloth, which I didn't have, and eventually gone insane ("stark raving mad" to be precise).<br />
Seconds after that I had message that he died in heat (I had artificial magma pool nearby).<br />
He probably jumped into the pool like in melancholy. Main article states that only melancholic dwarves kill themselves in such way.<br />
Could anyone confirm that mad ones do that too, and this wasn't just an accident/bug? [[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 16:59, 19 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Perhaps it ''was'' an accident -- I seem to recall that "stark raving mad" ones wander around at random. Perhaps it wandered into the lava. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 18:30, 19 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::It was an accident, the stark raving mad ones wander around aimlessly, regardless of Z- levels. --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 12:53, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Glassmaker with no glass ==<br />
<br />
I had an immigrant glassworker get a mood, seize a glass workshop, and created an artifact made entirely of gemstones. No glass involved or asked for. (No sand on the map, anyway.) He turned into a Legendary Glassworker, despite having never made a glass anything.<br />
<br />
== Rewrite ==<br />
<br />
I think I got most of the old information and then some into the new article. Please make any necessary modifications. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 01:22, 10 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Silk Cloth ==<br />
<br />
I had a dwarf demand silk cloth, but he refused to use my giant cave spider silk cloth. I didn't have any regular cave spider silk cloth. To verify that the silk was the problem, I used Companion to change the silk demand to any stone, and he immediately collected the rest of the materials and constructed the artifact.<br />
Can anyone else confirm that giant cave spider silk cloth does '''not''' count as silk cloth? --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:55, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
:No, I'm pretty sure I can't. I've seen a dwarf grab GCS silk.<br>Could it be that you had thread and not cloth? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:59, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
::Nope, giant cave spider cloth [3] sorted under cloth on the stock screen. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 16:52, 13 May 2008 (EDT) <br />
Probably they may specifically require GCS silk or specifically require CS silk. &mdash;[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 14:10, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
I figured it out - the silk was outside and I had accidentally left "Dwarves Stay Inside" on after the latest attack. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:52, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Engineer taken by secretive mood, and creates... ==<br />
<br />
Evidently engineers who are taken by a secretive mood ("withdraws from society", in case it's later determined that the descriptor has an effect) will have no problems taking over the mechanic's workshop. And there's only one thing mechanic-shops build - that's right, you heard right, ladies and gentlemen, I present ''Kodor ós: A claystone mechanism''. It's even available for use from the appropriate {{k|b}})uild screens. He decided to make this splendid 86,400o creation while on an eight-mechanism binge in that very same mechanic's workshop. Maybe dwarves choose the workshop they've been in the most often? --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Ah, actually I can confirm I've had a Mechanic create an artifact mechanism as well. Stick some obsidian swords in that baby and you'll be good to go! That should probably go in the main article for skills vs workshops... I would expect siege engineers also have strange moods, but I imagine pump op and siege op fall under the general craftsman catch-all --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 15:45, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
::I'd like to smack BismuthBismuthBismuth with the facts stated in the article.<br />
A dwarf will claim a workshop according to their highest applicable skill<br />
::In this case it was Engineering and therefore your mechanic went to a Mechanic's Workshop. It's the same with the possessed glassmakers. They hit a glassmaker's shop. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:49, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::I'd like to hit GreyMario-Maria, preferably in the upper-body region, with the fact that at the time of my post, the table in the article did not mention mechanics whatsoever. --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 22:26, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::Pardon me, but I was not aware that ''mechanics'' worked at a ''mechanic's workshop'', where objects are created that have ''quality mofidiers'' and can thus become ''artifacts''. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:28, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::::Pardon me as well, but it seems that the table in [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&oldid=25231 this particular revision] did not encapsulate this information. '''GreyMario is throwing a tantrum!''' --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:22, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::::Mechanics. Work at a mechanic's workshop. Produce items which have visible quality modifiers. Items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to be artifacts. THEREFORE, mechanics claim mechanic's workshops when they go fey. Seriously, logic sometimes, please? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:30, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::::::That would follow if we knew for certain that the proposition "items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to artifacts" is necessarily true. We don't. For instance, siege engine components are <i>not</i> verified as artifact eligible. Since that isn't a given, it's perfectly reasonable for people to not jump to the conclusion that a job type will create artifacts relevant to it until they see it happen. &mdash;[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 16:26, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
i love the absurd randomness factor with artifacts - you end up with really weird stuff. like grates, and socks. a question pertinent to legendary mechanisms - i got a stupidly valuable one of these as the first legendary item in a new fort and i used it to create a gear assembly in a public dining area in the hopes that it would give dwarves happy thoughts, but after a few years gametime of checking randomly on them nothing particular showed up. any particular use along these lines for legendary mechanisms for something other then simple fortress value? --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 11:51, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
: weapon traps! --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 12:03, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:: FWIW, that might be a more general answer for artifact items... I had a Weaponsmith dwarf go into a strange mood and create a lead warhammer (Yes, there was plenty of steel and iron around, but this dwarf likes lead, I guess). It can't be equipped as a weapon (lead isn't a valid material type normally for constructing weapons) but I can put it into a weapons trap. Which... is basically the only thing I can do with this 65000* artifact... -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:37, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
::: Actually, artifact equipment can be used, it just requires a "hero" level dwarf or higher. However, for the nonstandard material weapons and armor you may do well to forbid them so that they're not used. The actual effectiveness of odd material artifacts is supposedly lower than that of decent iron or steel equipment, and artifact equipment cannot be unequipped once a dwarf decides to use it. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 15:36, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Build your artifact mechanism into a really, really, really wonderful well. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 11:37, 13 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Tanner fixed ==<br />
<br />
I just had a Tanner claim a leather works, not a tannery. I updated the table. For the record, the dwarf has no skill level in leather working.<br />
<br />
:I wonder if Tanners even claim Tanner's shops? Tanner's shops just make leather, and leather doesn't have quality modifiers, so you shouldn't be able to produce an artifact from one, aye? That information came from an older version of the page, I wonder if it was inaccurate. Weavers supposed claim Clothier's shops and not Looms, so it would make sense if Tanners were the same way. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 18:08, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Cooks ==<br />
<br />
I can confirm that cooks do not produce artifacts: my Peasant with Dabbling Cook/Brewer/(various social) and nothing else just took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop. I'm removing the verify tag for cooks in the article. --[[User:Comonad|Comonad]] 16:16, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
mmmm. . . . artifact roast. [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 19:12, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Soapers etc. ==<br />
<br />
It stands to reason that soapers, lye makers, and wood burners wouldn't make artifacts. Neither soap, lye, charcoal, nor ash have quality modifiers, and that's all those skills can produce. I'm pretty sure you can't have artifact soap, lye, charcoal, or ash. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 20:26, 11 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: My woodburner just got possessed. He wants a shell and wood. I have the shell but I'm not sure what type of wood he wants. --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 20:18, 22 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Not all demands need to be met ==<br />
<br />
I just had a dwarf taken by a secretive mood and collect a huge variety of things: 4 stone, 1 block, 1 gem, 2 rough gems, bones, a shell, 2 leather. He was further sketching for more bones, 2 leather, another stone, a log, another shell, and raw green glass. The only things I didn't have on hand were the shell and the green glass -- dwarves seem to go through their list in order, and get stuck on certain items. <br />
<br />
I just hoped someone would eat a turtle (50/1678 chance!) and queued a raw green glass. When the glass was made, he got started, totally ignoring his previous requests for wood, another shell, and the other things. Anyone else have this experience? [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 13:28, 13 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I think they keep sketching images even after they get the items. Your dwarf already had all of the shells, leather, bones, stones, blocks, and gems he needed. [[User:Curudan|Curudan]] 15:26, 22 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::This is correct. I've had dwarves run out, grab two items, and then sit at the Workshop shouting a need for three items. When the item he was waiting on became available, he ran out, grabbed it, went back in, and started working. So it's pretty evident that they list ALL of the items they want, regardless of how many of them they've already collected. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 22:28, 23 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Possession ==<br />
<br />
I've had 14 moods in my current Fortress, 11 of them have been possessions. Am I really unlucky, or is the type of mood weighted? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 26 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
: As far as I can tell by looking at the game logic, each mood types are as likely to be rolled (except fell of course, which is selected if happiness<rand(128) or something like that). --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:56, 3 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
:: I had a feeling I was just getting really unlucky, thanks. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:34, 3 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Furnace Operator ==<br />
<br />
Apparently furnace operator is no longer a mood skill as of df 28 181 40d. I just had a expert furnace operator take over a Craftdwarf's Workshop and become a legendary stonecrafter. [[User:Otherdwarf|Otherdwarf]] 10:26, 1 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I had one take over a mason's workshop, I would guess that Furnace Operator is treating like Engraver or Miner. I'm kind of disappointed, I was hoping he'd churn out an artifact coke or something.[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 13:03, 14 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Back when furnace operator was moodable, they'd turn out metal crafts. But taking over a mason's workshop is surprising. Occasionally they'll take over a random workshop and convert it into the type they want -- what artifact did the dwarf produce? And, just to rule out some obvious things, did the dwarf have dabbling skill in mining, masonry, or engraving?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:51, 14 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::He went crazy looking for some kind of rough gem, so we'll never know. It was ''right'' after the dwarf trading caravan left, too, so I really had no chance whatsoever. I don't know for sure what skills he had, I don't think he had much other than Furnace Operator, Architect, and the social skills though. I ''might'' have enabled mining, but there was plenty of work for him at the smelter so I don't know for sure.--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 15:56, 14 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Chunk Butchery? ==<br />
<br />
Well, even though the selection of items for artifacts is totally random, its a bit wierd if a macabre dwarf goes to a butcher's workshop and starts bringing in tons of dwarf CHUNKS! My dwarf just started doing that, should I expect rotting meat (yes, the chunks are already rotten)? - 09:57, 30 October 2008 Stinhad Limarezum <br />
: ^_^ "This is a delicious meat pie. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. On the item is an image of a dwarf and dwarves in rotting dwarf chunks. The dwarf is baking the other dwarves into meat pies. The artwork relates to the rise of the dwarf butcher Sweeney Todd as the cook of The Fleet Street in 78" -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:11, 30 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Oh, ''do'' post the description of the artifact when the dwarf completes it. ("Menaces with spikes of dwarf chunk?" I'd be intimidated for sure.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:18, 30 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== What Workshop? ==<br />
<br />
Is there <em>any</em> way to discover what workshop a dwarf in a secretive mood requires? I had nearly everything. I built a siege workshop and a bowery before I ran out of ideas and he went beserk. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 10:55, 3 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:You have to look at what skills he has first and rule out the obvious. If he has no mood-able skills then it's going to be a craftsdwarf's workshop. If you have hit magma and he wants a forge or glass furnace, he will insist on the magma version of that workshop. Finally, maybe one of your existing workshops was inaccessible or you accidentally [[forbid]] it at some point. If none of that works, I'm out of ideas too.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:01, 3 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::I have a functioning magma glass furnace and I had to build a normal glass furnace when my glass maker became secretive. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:23, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::Same here, in fact I had 2 moody glass making dwarves refuse to use anything but a normal glass furnace when there were 5 fully functional magma glass furnaces in the same fort. (sorry, almost forgot to sign) --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:27, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Ah. In older versions, they'd insist on a magma workshop, when possible. Do they now insist on using a regular workshop, or has anyone seen a moody dwarf use a magma workshop in recent versions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::::I believe my metalsmith is waiting for my magma forge to come on line, I have a standard forge built, but that isn't doing anything for him. Does anyone know what effect fluctuating power will have on the strange mood? Edit: If a claimed workshop looses power for even a millisecond, the mood fails. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 12:02, 18 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Possessed Child ==<br />
<br />
I have a child that has become possessed and taken over one of my craft workshops (of course). He is muttering the following: rough color, leather skin, bone yes, stone rock, cloth thread, blocks bricks, and a shell. He has already acquired the following: turtle bones, donkey bones [4], microcline blocks, turtle shell, rough pink garnets, dog leather, carp leather, and hematite. I have plenty of all the things that he's already gathered, so I'm assuming that he doesn't need anymore of those items. That leaves the thread. I have turned off my auto-loom a while ago so that I would keep the thread around for artifacts. I currently have plenty of plant thread (4 pig tail and 14 rope reed) and enough spider silk (5). What I don't have is giant spider silk. I have confirmed that the child has access to all these items, including the thread which I have piles next to his workshop. Still he doesn't start construction.<br />
<br />
Can any help? Is there a difference for artifact creation between regular cave spider silk and giant cave spider silk? ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]<br />
<br />
:Do you have both silk and plant cloth available? (Not just thread.) And do you see any specific cloth preferences in his thoughts and preferences screen?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:32, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Argh. I bet that's it. No silk cloth, just thread. I have had guys go crazy for lack of thread before, so I never make silk cloth, just kept the thread. Oh well, the child is now melancholy. I can re-load and see what would happen if I make the thread into cloth. Maybe I'll test that out. ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]<br />
<br />
::: Wouldn't you be able to solve this problem by only weaving dyed thread? Then you'll always have some thread waiting to be dyed. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 03:04, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::You could also leave high quality, expensive materials lying around Forbidden, and only Claim them when someone's trying to make an artifact. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 15:07, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Getting More Strange Moods ==<br />
<br />
According to the article, the number of artifacts is limited by "The number of items created divided by 200." This indicates that making bolts (5 for each bone or 25 for each log) or brewing (5 units of drink for each unit of plant brewed) are efficient ways to encourage strange moods. Does that sound accurate?<br />
<br />
It also states that the number of revealed subterranean tiles is a limit. Does that mean an area like a chasm, where many tiles are revealed to start with, will produce more strange moods?<br />
<br />
Also, does anyone know whether the division rounds up or down? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 22:24, 16 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I'd be willing to bet all stacks count as only one "item" for this kind of calculation. 200 sounds like a paltry number, however. If rocks are counted as items, most fortresses have thousands of them in just a few years. The other number is what is most significant (I wonder where the heck it comes from?) I've had four miners digging non-stop for about 10 years now, and my stocks menu says I have 70,000 stones. Allowing for underground soil tiles (which don't produce stone) and stone/ore consumed by industry, each miner can probably clear about 2,000 tiles a year: one artifact. I have 21 artifacts in my fortress now (and two failed moods early on), so if that rate is indicative, I'd say you want to employ three or more miners non-stop to maximize your chances.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:09, 17 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::The guy who wrote [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stone_management#Block_Stockpile this] doesn't seem to think that stones count as created items. Also, "revealed tiles" is ambiguous. For example, [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Exploratory_mining#Mine_shafts this] method is very good at showing you what's inside of a tile without actually mining it out. Do you suppose that seeing whats inside is enough?<br />
<br />
::Where do you think these numbers came from anyway? I'm gonna take a look through the edit history and try to track them down. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:15, 17 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::They came during [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&diff=25038&oldid=24936 this edit]. They're so specific I've got to think the author did some poking around with a disassembler. Again, though, 200 is such a paltry number. If underground "open space" counts, then discovering a chasm, bottomless pit, or magma pipe should many thousands thousands of revealed tiles. If underground floor tiles are needed, you'll have to mine most of them out yourself.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:34, 17 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::I had a chat with [[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] over at his talk page, since he edited the page around the time the changes were made. He seemed fairly certain that all you had to do to "reveal" a tile was to have a passable square next to it, so I edited the article to reflect that. He did not, however, know anything about how bolts or stones would affect things. Right now my hopes are on [[User:Marble_Dice|Marble Dice]], whom I believe made the actual addition. I'm not sure if he's a very active user though.<br />
<br />
::::By the way, the reason I'm doing all this is that I'm considering optimizing a fortress for strange moods: have '''lots''' of dwarves with only "dabbling" in a single strange mood skill to gain maximum benefit from the moods. Any ideas for fortress strategies that will go well with this? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 02:44, 17 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::I saw the conversation -- I keep my eye on [[Special:Recentchanges]]. What he says about "reveal" is correct, as far as I know. I still wonder about "open space" tiles. If they count as revealed, all you really need to do is find a chasm/pit/magma pipe and you'll be in moods for years to come.<br />
<br />
:::::I've done the dabbling strategy in the past. It's best to emphasize just a few skills you really really want that are otherwise hard to train due to limited materials -- armorsmith, weaponsmith, bone carver, leatherworker, carpenter, etc. It works fine with any fortress strategy.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:30, 17 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Two missing labors ==<br />
<br />
Strand Extractor and Blacksmith don't currently appear in either the Causes Moods category or the Doesn't Cause Moods category. I put Strand Extractor in Doesn't Cause Moods and the Blacksmith in Causes Moods; feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 19:59, 18 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I can confirm that blacksmith is moodable, I've got a nice steel chest to show for it. It stands to reason that strand extractor isn't moodable, but we don't know for sure -- I've slapped a verify on it.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:01, 18 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Order of stuff ==<br />
<br />
I'm wondering if dwarves always claim items in a certain order. For example, when a dwarf wants three pieces of wood he always wants them back-to-back, never wood gem wood bone wood. So are types ALWAYS in a certain order? My current moody dwarf wanted two bars of metal, then spider silk cloth, then ash logs, then bones, then a rough gem, then a shell. Knowing the order might help you guess what the dwarf wants next if he doesn't need to wait for anything (and thus tell you what he wants). This might be useful for micromanaging forbidding stuff to make sure your dwarf gets the highest value things available. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:19, 26 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:<s>This is actually well-defined in the article, if you'd bothered to look close enough. Dwarves will gather items in the order they scream their demands in.</s> It's unknown. I think there's no real order, just similar things end up grouped together. :V --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:32, 26 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::fail. Uh, I mean, as soon as anyone else sees a strange mood, it can either be disproven, or we can start putting some data together immediately and be done pretty quick. I saw: Metal Bars, Silk Cloth, Wood, Bones, Rough Gem, Shell. If anyone sees bones before wood or something, that means there's no guaranteed order. But no harm done. :) --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:36, 26 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::It's simpler than that. Items have a certain number of slots for improvements, and for artifacts the first improvement slot is always filled by the base material of the item. Then the rest are filled in order, with whatever is a valid candidate for that slot (which is probably 'anything that's anything' in every case, though I'm not absolutely sure.) So, there isn't any explicit sorting because it has to be in order.<br />
<br />
:::If you fill an item's slots with ordinary decoration, which is easiest to do by encrusting a wide variety of gems on a piece of furniture or the like, you'll see what I mean. Maybe. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 23:40, 26 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::Ah! So you're saying that instead of generating a list of ingredients, it first plans out the artifact itself, saying "This one is a chest, it has hanging rings and an image, first let's get a material for the chest, then a material for the hanging rings, then a material for the image"? That makes a ton of sense, and answers my question. Thanks! --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:47, 26 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Well, I know it doesn't do that, because if you close the game and reopen it, you can get different items... With my elf game, I had one artifact that came out as either a thong, a left mitten, or a rope on five tries. But it's roughly the same idea, even with the details randomized upon creation. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 00:05, 27 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Fell Mood Demands ==<br />
<br />
It looks like when a brooding dwarf sits in the tanner's shop and says he needs "Things..." what he's looking for is vermin remains. Other demands are like in Fey moods. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 22:24, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Confusing macabre mood ==<br />
<br />
My mayor just entered one, while 'quite content', claimed a smelter, waited for a bit, until the parts appeared (the vermin must have died). He then created a roach rock chitin bracelet, and gained the carpenter skill. Am I missing something here? Smelter, rock and carpenter don't seem to mix well... Note: The only skills were proficient cook and fish cleaner, with some dabbling and noice social.--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 13:03, 6 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Carpenter? Or wood crafter? Claiming a smelter isn't out of the question: they sometimes grab a random workshop and turn it into the one they want (is it still a smelter?). And what is roach rock? Give the actual description of the artifact.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:14, 6 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Carpenter. It's still a smelter, yes. "This is a large roach chitin bracelet. All craftsdwaftship is of the highest quality. It is encircled with bands of large roach chitin and dwarf bone. This object menaces with spikes of rat leather."--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 15:32, 7 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Hmm. Post that one on the forums, find out if it's an actual bug. Does sound pretty nonstandard.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:50, 7 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::: :-D Pretty sure that a roach is an actual bug. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:00, 8 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::D'oh.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:56, 8 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::::I did have two very close together, but I am certain that neither had any carpenter skill, and the smelter was claimed.<br />
<br />
== Rough Gems ==<br />
<br />
EVERY Fey Mood that has happened for the last 3 years has required Rough Gems! Argh! Mining out an entire Z-level has found ONE GEM, which I was idiotic enough to cut the instant I found it. I do not have Rough Gems. You cannot buy Rough Gems. My fortress will die slowly and painfully without Rough Gems. Cut green glass is good enough when a fey dwarf demands cut gems, why isn't raw green glass good enough when they want rough gems? Can it be made good enough with a mod? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 11:19, 13 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Dig down to an igneous intrusive level - they have more gems. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:19, 13 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::To mod out gem-demanding fey dwarves, you could remove all gems and then generate a new world. Alternatively, if you don't mind the lack of moods, turn them off in init.txt. Personally, I highly dislike moods, since they just make it that much easier to have abundant so-called "legendary" dwarves, although the random killer effect is quite nice. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:15, 13 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Trapper?==<br />
Has anyone seen a dwarf get trapper experience from a mood? I've made a couple of artifact animal traps at this point, and all of them were by dwarves without the trapper skill who received xp in skills related to the material. (ie, my turtle-shell animal trap was made by someone who became a legendary bonecarver therefrom). I know I made a similar comment on the Trapper talk page. From the other end, I'm sure I've had immigrant trappers get moods before and have never seen a legendary trapper, although I don't recall specifically enough to be certain they had moods. But I've seen zero evidence that Trapper is actually a moodable skill. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:00, 15 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Craftdwarf's Workshop==<br />
I just had a lye maker take over a metalsmith's forge and turn out a bracelet; now he's a legendary metalcrafter. I think that "Dwarves with only the following skills will construct their artifact at a craftsdwarf's workshop..." might be too constrictive, and that such dwarves could seize any craftdwarf-related workshop (including forges and carpenter's shops), not just a craftdwarf's workshop. Anyone else observed this behavior? --[[User:Wingus|Wingus]] 09:55, 22 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:You're certain that the dwarf in question had no experience in any other tasks? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 11:19, 22 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Yes, the lyemaker had no other (non-social) skills. He was a recent immigrant I was using as a hauler. --[[User:Wingus|Wingus]] 11:35, 22 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::There have been quite a few anomalous moods that we haven't documented properly yet.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 22 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Time limit of a mood. ==<br />
<br />
Do we have a fix on the exact time the player has to satisfy a mood before the dwarf goes insane? Any clue on whether it's fixed or variable?</div>Shurikanehttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Trading&diff=3589940d:Trading2008-12-27T03:34:11Z<p>Shurikane: /* Trading */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Building|name=Trade depot|key=D<br />
|job= <br />
1 of:<br />
* [[Broker]] noble<br />
* None (See description)<br />
|construction=<br />
3 of<br />
* [[Block]]<br />
* [[Metal bar]]<br />
* [[Stone]]<br />
* [[Wood]]<br />
|construction_job=<br />
* [[Architecture]]<br />
* and 1 of:<br />
** [[Metalsmithing]]<br />
** [[Masonry]]<br />
** [[Carpentry]]<br />
|purpose=<br />
Trade goods with other races.<br />
}}<br />
'''Trading''' in Dwarf Fortress first occurs in the first [[autumn]] after establishing your fortress, with the arrival of the [[dwarf|Dwarven]] [[Trading#Caravans|caravan]]. Trading is a good way to acquire resources that are not available or are rare in the local area. It also allows for more freedom in selecting starting gear, because items can always be obtained through trade later, e.g. one can drop the expensive [[anvil]] to bring 500 extra units of [[alcohol|booze]] or purchase additional skills for the expedition party. New players can [[Your_first_fortress#Trading|look here]] for advice on trading with the first caravan.<br />
<br />
== Trade Depot ==<br />
Building a '''Trade Depot''' ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}}) will allow you the opportunity to trade with caravans that arrive at your fortress. Trade depots can be created from almost any material, and construction requires the [[Architecture]] skill along with the appropriate craft labor ([[Carpentry]], [[Masonry]], or [[Metalsmithing]]). <br />
<br />
While it may be convenient to build a Trade Depot outside first, it is usually a good idea to move it inside or build fortifications around it to protect caravans and your goods from [[thief|thieves]] and [[goblin]]s.<br />
<br />
Hit {{K|q}} to bring up the building interaction mode, and then move your cursor over the Trade Depot to gain access to the following options.<br />
<br />
=== Move Goods to/from Depot ===<br />
{{K|g}}: This command becomes active when a caravan arrives on your map. Choosing items from this menu will mark them as [PENDING] and [[dwarves]] will begin moving them to the depot (all dwarves regardless of labor settings will move goods to the depot when necessary). Items that have been brought to the depot are ready for trade and will be marked as [TRADING]. Items nominated for trading will remain at the depot until the caravan leaves, or the [PENDING] / [TRADING] flag is cleared by choosing the item again. Once no longer required at the depot, items will be available for use or hauling to stockpiles as normal.<br />
<br />
=== No trader needed at depot or Trader requested at depot ===<br />
{{K|r}}: This requests a dwarf to come to the depot. To conduct trades with caravans, a trader must be present at the Trade Depot. Once requested, a dwarf will make their way to the depot, and remain there until released with this setting, or the dwarf decides to drink, sleep, or eat.<br />
<br />
=== Only broker may trade or Anyone may trade ===<br />
{{K|b}}: This setting determines who will perform the trade. If '''Only broker may trade''' is active, then only the [[Broker]] [[noble]] will respond to the trader request. This can become a problem when the broker is sleeping or otherwise occupied, but dwarves with low [[Broker skills]] will receive poorer deals when trading.<br />
<br />
=== Trade ===<br />
{{K|t}}: This option becomes available once the caravan and your broker are both at the depot. It begins trading.<br />
<br />
<br />
==Trading==<br />
{{:Trading/Flowchart}}<br />
After entering the trade menu, select the items to offer from the right, and the desired items from the left. All caravans have a weight limit which cannot be exceeded, and the allowed additional weight is displayed in the lower right corner. If the acting broker has at least Novice or better [[Appraisal]] skill, the value of all items will be displayed. Once the proposal is ready, press {{K|t}} to make an offer, but merchants will not agree unless they make adequate profit. Be sure to use '''trade''', not '''offer''' {{K|o}}, as this will make a gift of the selected items. The amount of acceptable profit is determined by the broker's [[Broker skills|skills]] and the merchant's mood, described below. Merchants may attempt to propose counteroffers if they do not accept the proposal, which can then be accepted, rejected, or further amended by the broker.<br />
<br />
A good rule of thumb for inexperienced brokers is to give merchants a 50% or better profit. For example, if the desired goods are worth 500☼, make sure their profit is at least 250☼ (which would make the total worth of the offered goods 750☼). This should ensure that the merchants are happy with the trading and that they accept the trade immediately without making ridiculous counteroffers. With more experienced brokers or pleased merchants, even marginally profitable trades can be successful, and counteroffers can be rejected safely, offering the same trade again.<br />
<br />
=== Trading cue colors ===<br />
<br />
* Items in brown have been specifically brought to the depot for trading.<br />
* Items in white are among the items you can trade away, but which were not part of your original trading criterias. A common example is when you desire to trade crafts, which share bins with clothes.<br />
* Items in purple are under a no-export mandate and should not be traded away unless exceptional circumstances (or masochism) push you to do this.<br />
<br />
=== Merchant mood ===<br />
If your broker has Novice or better [[Judge of Intent]] skill, there will be a line added below the merchant's dialogue describing the caravan's attitude. Their attitude rises with successful trades (especially if they get lots of profit) and falls when you propose deals they don't like. <br />
<br />
* (trader) seems ecstatic with the trading<br />
* (trader) seems very happy about the trading<br />
* (trader) seems pleased with the trading<br />
* (trader) seems willing to trade (Default, at least for humans)<br />
* (trader) seems to be rapidly losing patience<br />
* (trader) is not going to take much more of this<br />
* (trader) is unwilling to trade<br />
<br />
The happier you make a merchant, the less profit margin he will demand in a trade. If merchants reach the lowest level, no further trade will be possible, and they will immediately pack up and leave your depot. Since annoyed traders are more likely to reject deals, you should be generous in initial negotiations. Skilled negotiators seem less likely to offend traders with unsuccessful deals. <br />
<br />
=== Seizing items ===<br />
<br />
Pressing {{K|s}} from the trade menu will seize the selected items of the merchant's. If you seize goods from a caravan, the merchant will respond "Take what you want. I can't stop you." and then leave immediately without the seized goods. Items cannot be seized from the dwarven caravan, and other races will not buy stolen goods (marked in red) unless they are tricked into asking for them via counteroffer, or the items are "naturalized" by decoration or used to create other goods. Seizing goods will hurt diplomatic relations, but is not grounds for an automatic [[siege]].<br />
<br />
As a side note, if you remove your trade depot, all the caravan's items will drop to the ground, to be readily hauled away by your dwarves. This does not mark the item as stolen, and the caravan will leave.<br />
<br />
===Offering items===<br />
<br />
{{key|o}} You can also give away items, as gifts to the leaders of the [[civilization]] you are trading with. This presumably helps relations between yourself and the other faction. The exact effects are unknown but it is believed that offering goods increases the quantity and variety of trade goods brought by next year's caravan. Also the [[King]] may require offerings before his arrival.<br />
<br />
== Caravans ==<br />
Each friendly race will send a caravan once per year, but only if that race considers the fortress site accessible (as denoted on the embark screen). The exception is dwarves, who always arrive. Caravans appear to enter the map from a random direction which does not coincide with the relative direction of the originating [[civilization]], and they may appear from different directions or z-levels each year. Caravans may leave without trading if it takes too long to reach the trade depot, and they cannot use stairs.<br />
<br />
=== Wagons ===<br />
[[Image:Depot alley.png|thumb|right|A depot in the fortress, with a narrow, trapped accessway.]]<br />
[[Image:Depot accessible.png|thumb|right|Composite image of depot access screen. Strategically arranged walls and natural obstacles (boulders) force wagons to enter and exit the map immediately to the east of the depot.]]<br />
All races except elves will send [[wagon]]s with their caravans, which have a much greater capacity for bringing foreign imports and accepting dwarven exports. Unfortunately, wagons require paths that are three tiles wide to pass. Wagons may enter the map in a location different from merchants with pack [[animals]], if the point the animals entered was inaccessible to the wagons. If wagons are unable to find an open path to your trade depot (or if you have not built a depot at all), they will bypass your site and you will only be able to trade for what is available on the pack animals. <br />
<br />
Wagons cannot cross [[stair]]s or [[door]]s (even if the doors span an area ordinarily wide enough for the wagon to pass). Obstructing [[boulder]]s must be smoothed ( {{K|d}} - {{K|s}} ), and [[tree]]s must be cut down ( {{K|d}} - {{K|t}} ). [[Shrub]]s do not obstruct wagons, and neither do [[ramp]]s, [[bridge]]s, [[road]]s, or [[floor]] tiles. (However, ramps covered by a [[hatch]] do obstruct.) The impassable tiles of [[workshop]]s and other buildings will obstruct, but the passable tiles of those buildings will not. Any buildings which are normally passable, including [[restraint]]s and [[trap]]s, will not obstruct wagons either, nor will creatures, whether restrained or free.<br />
<br />
To keep trees from growing and blocking a path, you should build roads, bridges, or floor tiles over any [[soil]] tiles that make up part of the path. Ramps must be used to adjust [[z-level]] elevation.<br />
<br />
After a trade depot is built, you can use {{K|D}} to check wagon accessibility. The display is somewhat misleading: tiles marked in green mean a wagon can ''fit'' in that space, not that it can necessarily reach it from the edge of the map. Further, the green {{Raw Tile|W|{{COLOR:2:0:1}}|{{COLOR:2:0:0}}}}s only represent where the ''center'' of the wagon can fit -- so a three-tile wide path, which can fit a wagon, will only show up as one-tile wide line of {{Raw Tile|W|{{COLOR:2:0:1}}|{{COLOR:2:0:0}}}}s. When the route they would take goes over hills (ramps), it's hard to eye whether it is continuous all the way to the edge of the map, so be sure you see the words "depot accessible" on the depot access screen.<br />
<br />
As long as you have a three-tile wide path to the depot that reaches ''any'' edge of the map, wagons will be able to reach the depot. If there is only one path they can take, they will take that path. You can force them to enter and exit the map in an exact spot -- preferably very near your depot -- by erecting walls or digging channels so that all paths but the one you want them to take are blocked.<br />
<br />
=== Liaisons ===<br />
[[Liaison]]s may be sent with caravans to speak to important dwarves. They will allow you to choose the type of items that your fortress is interested in, and will focus on bringing more of that kind of item on the next caravan (however those items will also be more expensive). They will also present you with a list of the items they're willing to pay more for, which will be effective upon their next arrival.<br />
<br />
=== Races ===<br />
The following races send caravans.<br />
<br />
==== [[Dwarves]] ====<br />
The dwarven caravan:<br />
* arrives in [[Calendar|autumn]].<br />
* employs wagons to bring more goods.<br />
* typically carries [[food]], [[alcohol|booze]], [[leather]], and supplies. Dwarves alone may carry [[steel]] and steel goods.<br />
* tends to be well guarded.<br />
* sends a liaison who will speak with the [[Expedition leader]] (or [[Mayor]]) to negotiate prices.<br />
* is responsible for the number of immigrants received (when the caravan escapes alive).<br />
* will not cause sieges when repeatedly destroyed or lost.<br />
* is the only caravan to arrive during a fortress' first year.<br />
* always arrives regardless of embark location.<br />
* cannot have its goods seized from the trade menu.<br />
<br />
==== [[elf|Elves]] ====<br />
[[Image:Evil_elves.png|thumb|400px|A typical elven caravan.]]<br />
<br />
The elven caravan:<br />
* arrives in [[Calendar|spring]].<br />
* does not send wagons.<br />
* typically carries [[cloth]], [[rope]], various above ground [[plants]] and their byproducts, [[log]]s, [[wood]]en [[craft]]s & [[weapon]]s, large-sized clothing and [[armor]], and may carry tame [[creatures]].<br />
* carries more wood the less trees you cut down{{verify}}.<br />
* tends to be unguarded.<br />
* may send a diplomat who imposes a tree cutting quota.<br />
* does not accept some items in trade.<br />
<br />
Elven traders do not like to be offered any tree byproducts. Forbidden items include{{ver|0.28.181.40d}}: <br />
<br />
* [[Wood]]en items, and items derived from wood (including [[tower-cap]] logs), such as [[charcoal]] and [[pearlash]]<br />
* Clear and crystal [[glass]] (because [[pearlash]] is used in their creation)<br />
* Items [[decoration|decorated]] with any of the above materials<br />
* [[Obsidian]] shortswords (since they have wooden handles)<br />
* [[Soap]] (made with [[ash]])<br />
<br />
[[Metal]] items are acceptable, even when [[charcoal]] is used in their production. Items made from [[silk]] are acceptable, as are all non-wooden plant-derived products such as [[cloth]] and [[thread]]. Different from previous versions, items made of bone and shell are acceptable. You can also transport your goods to the [[trade depot]] in a wooden [[bin]], as long as you do not try to sell the bin. Living animals are acceptable, as long as the [[cage]] or [[trap]] is not made of [[wood]].<br />
<br />
Be especially careful with reselling items from other caravans, as decorated items made out of a non-living material may include decorative materials that were made of living materials. All items that elven caravans sell are also unacceptable to sell back to elves, as the dwarves have no means of proving that they were made in an "elf kosher" way &mdash; and all dwarves know that elves have terrible memory.<br />
<br />
==== [[Human]]s ====<br />
The human caravan:<br />
* arrives in [[Calendar|summer]].<br />
* employs wagons to bring more goods.<br />
* typically carries a very large quantity and variety of goods.<br />
* tends to be moderately guarded.<br />
* sends a liaison who will speak with the broker to negotiate prices.<br />
<br />
==== [[Goblin]]s ====<br />
A goblin caravan may arrive if your civilization is at peace with the goblins.<br />
<br />
The goblin caravan:<br />
*does not send wagons<br />
*tends to be unguarded<br />
*brings mostly food and cloth<br />
*does not send a liaison or a guild representative<br />
*does not make import/export agreements<br />
<br />
=== Destruction ===<br />
If caravans are destroyed (intentionally or unintentionally), the items may remain for use. Traders caught in a [[cave-in]] will flee as if they were attacked but will leave all the items dropped by the caravan behind. Pack animals carrying items are affected just like a normal tamed [[mule]] and must be killed in the cave-in for them to drop items on the ground. It is however much more likely that the pack animal(s) will only be stunned or rendered unconscious and flee shortly after recovering from the hit. Wagons will collapse if caught in a cave-in, leaving all that it was carrying on the ground as a result. Wagons can also be destroyed by [[ocean]] waves coming up onto the shore if you have settled in the appropriate area. The only difference between collapsing under waves or a cave-in is a higher probably of recovering items if the wagon is destroyed by a wave.<br />
<br />
Repeated caravan destruction (intentional or unintentional) will strain diplomatic relations and may result in a [[siege]].</div>Shurikanehttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Cage&diff=1861740d:Cage2008-12-17T17:46:16Z<p>Shurikane: Added a quicker way to disarm caged hostiles.</p>
<hr />
<div>A '''cage''' is a holding device. Cages cannot be made of [[stone]], but can be made of [[wood]], [[metal]] and [[glass]] (terrarium). Cages can hold an unlimited number of [[animals]] and captured [[vermin]] at once. Placing animals in a cage can reduce lag and [[traffic]] in your hallways. Both empty and occupied cages can - and will - be stored only in an animal [[stockpile]].<br />
<br />
The cage can be used in a few ways:<br />
<br />
* If made of metal, as a [[jail]], where you designate its location to be used for [[justice]], and a [[sheriff]] will detain any unruly dwarves.<br />
* As animal restraining device, where you simply plant it and allocate any animals (except [[pet]]s) you want in it. Particularly handy for keeping track of mating animals. Animals that are caged '''will not''' mate, but animals can bear children when caged.<br />
** This is also how you go about making a makeshift [[zoo]] for [[trapped]] animals.<br />
** A glass cage (Terrarium) can be designated an [[aquarium]] for holding captured [[fish]]. (see [[captured live fish]])<br />
* A [[Traps#Cage_Trap|cage trap]] needs a cage as one of its components.<br />
<br />
If you buy your first animals via the traders, you may be unsure how to extract them. To remove an animal from a cage, it first needs to be placed via the Build menu ({{K|b}}-{{K|j}}). Once it's placed, use {{K|q}} to examine it, {{K|a}} to assign, and then use {{K|Enter}} to toggle the animal(s) currently inside. A dwarf will come along and let the animal out of the cage, after which it can be butchered, moved, et cetera.<br />
<br />
If you already have a cage placed somewhere, a faster way to release bought animals is to examine this cage and assign the animals to it. A dwarf will fetch the animals from the stockpile after which you can release them by again examining the cage.<br />
<br />
You can find a list of imaginative ideas to do with captured creatures [[captured creatures|here]].<br />
<br />
== How to disarm hostiles in cages ==<br />
You can find the items carried by caged [[goblin]]s, [[kobold]]s, etc. in the [[stocks]] menu and designate them for dumping. You can identify the clothes because it will be narrow. Mark the items for dumping, and dwarves will come to the cage and take them. The exact items will be difficult to identify if you have stockpiled other items taken from goblins. You can verify that you are targeting the right items by using the zoom function; it should point you to the cage. Nonetheless, this can be tedious.<br />
<br />
In later versions of the game, you can make the process quicker via the mass designation tool. Use {{K|d}}-{{K|b}}-{{K|d}} to designate an area from which all items will be taken and dumped. Afterwards, hit {{K|k}}, go over each cage and press {{K|d}} for each of them. The end result will be that prisoners will be stripped naked but the cages themselves (and the creatures within) will remain in place, ready to be used for whatever purpose.<br />
<br />
==Stockpile==<br />
Cages are under the "Animal stockpile". To create a stockpile for empty cages, disable all the animals but permit empty cages (press u).<br />
<br />
== Arena ==<br />
If you link a [[lever]] to a (built) cage with trapped hostiles, you can release them by pulling the lever and let animals or your soldiers have fun with them. Make sure you have disarmed them first. The design of this "arena" is really up to you but a somewhat contained area or room is advisable. This is also a creative way to get rid of unwanted pets, if you can manage to trap them in the arena. Make sure your dwarves won't [[tantrum]] from unhappy thoughts! Dwarves attempting to move certain creatures between cages(goblin champion, colossus, skeletons, etc) will merely result in freeing the creature.<br />
<br />
One method is to have a room above a [[ramp]] (so the down-ramp is in the room). Build your occupied cages all about the room, station your soldiers near the ramp, and mark the ramp as a pit; then start chucking goblins into the pit. They get briefly stunned by the fall, so there's little risk so long as you don't try to pit too many at once (and be careful with the axelords, too). In the rare event that one of your peons cancels the pit-animal task, probably because they saw one of the recently-pitted goblins, there's plenty of soldiers at the ready to clean up the mess. [[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=19613.msg204684#msg204684 Idea adapted from a post by Derakon on the Bay 12 Forums]]<br />
<br />
== Cage Trading Caveats ==<br />
* [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html#Bug41 known bug 41] has reared its ugly head in that a cage marked for trading will almost always release the caged creature when it is picked up to be brought back to the depot. It is therefore, virtually impossible to trade caged animals as of this time. {{version|0.28.181.40d}}<br />
* Elves are known to be trading crippled animals. In some games, the animals that the elves bring will always have a number of red injuries, including limbs, internal organs, and nerve damage. It has been speculated that this may happen due to environmental damage for creatures outside of their habitat, but it has been spotted in the forums in native species as well. {{version|0.28.181.40d}}<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Buildings}}<br />
{{Military FAQ}}</div>Shurikanehttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Challenges&diff=2253540d Talk:Challenges2008-11-19T04:27:34Z<p>Shurikane: Ceremonial Sacrifices</p>
<hr />
<div>==Colorful==<br />
This is an idea I got by reading trough all the challenges, what if you make it a goal to have the fortress in the colour of the rainbow. (Example, 80x80 tile fortress, first 10 tiles are red, second 10 tiles are brown-orange, the third 10 are yellow and go on) --[[User:G1real|G1real]] 08:43, 27 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Sparta==<br />
"You shouldn't create chainmail or plate armour."<br />
<br>why? --Savok <br />
:because spartans don't wear chest armor. you should definately watch 300, it's like Dwarf Fortress on crack! --AlexFili <br />
::from what I've read, 300 isn't an accurate depiction of Spartan life. However, this challenge build is based on 300 --Savok<br />
:::Alright, fair point, 300 was based from a graphic novel, but many similarities between Spartans in 300 and in real history are present. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 10:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT) <br />
::::"However, this challenge build is based on 300" No it isn't. At least, it wasn't intended to be. I guess I shouldn't have referred to pop culture when I added it. --juckto<br />
:::::The hell with it. Split off spartans from 300. [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 16:55, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::::Not only did Spartans use chest armour (although in the form of bronze muscel cuirasses), but it was illegal and finable to fight without your armour. Theres one story of a Prince praying in Temple when some enemies attacked, he ran out naked and killed them, the Oligarchs awarded and praised him with one hand and then fined him with the other. Further specific Spartan attributes, the largely did not wear sandals except during war (don't want your feet to be soft and flabby, gotta make them rock-proof), Sparta itself didn't rely on walls (although they did use them [notably at the battle of the Hot Gates to keep the Persians from landing south of the gates] and the city did eventually make some). Theres also the complicated issue of their government, not sure how to replicate that, dual monarchy with the Kings having no real governmental powers and an oligarchy ruling at home. Maybe having a Legendary warrior lead each of two squads and having every position (Book Keeper, Mayor, Captain of the Guard even maybe) filled by a useless fat rich guy in a nice shiny house. I should also point out alot of their generals and kings were known for a love of gold and that 50% of the population being in the military is not very accurate, actual Spartan soldiers were vastly outnumbered by the Helots. --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
==No mining==<br />
Now that you construct walls and fortifications out of wood, I wonder if anyone is going to take on a 'no mining' challenge? You're going to need a ''lot'' of wood! --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 17:00, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Some people already are :p --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:44, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
::I'm running a game with Elves as the playable civilization, a challenge on its own--The Forest Retreat of Inalamina is well into its ninth year, with a population of 220, and this is without mining ''or'' cutting down any trees. It's defended entirely by spearmen, swordsmen, and wrestlers, and the nobles/admins and wounded elves live happily in tree forts and lean-tos! Worth adding, maybe? I'd even consider writing an article for it... --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:23, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::: I am completely enthralled. I'd love to see it written up. Screenshots, the whole thing. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:37, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
::Oh, you mean for the game I'm running itself? I'd love to, but I can't seem to find what the rules for that are and I don't want to step on any toes by randomly creating a page. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:48, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::: Either for the game itself, or a general essay sorta thing on the challenges and solutions for that kind of gameplay. As for the [[rules]], I don't know what you're talking about exactly. A wiki is a kind of anarchistic democracy. If you think it's worth putting up, you are free to put it up. If someone wants to take it down, they're free to do that too. <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]]</small><br />
<br />
:::Put the writeup on your userpage, and if it can be broadened into something else, we'll move it into the mainspace.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:09, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Assassination==<br />
I tried "Assassination" the other day and found that it was incredibly easy with a group of axedwarves. Not only did I kill the hardest-to-get-at goblin, I killed every last other goblin too. In the end, there were only 2 dogs and 2 dwarves dead (the last one fell, sadly, to the last goblin left, who was hiding in the tunnels.--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 22:51, 15 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Now do it with 7 untrained dwarves with no armor. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 19:30, 29 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Humanlike? ==<br />
It should be noted that the 'human-like fortress' as described is historically inaccurate. In particular, its either misrepresenting or confusing various details. One major point is that a _castle_ never incorporated a town. There are walled towns and there are castles, but these are entirely different things. A couple of historical periods/styles would lead to the following different suggestions:<br />
<br />
(A) Larger (stone) medieval castles sometimes had industry in the bailey. This was often pressed up against the outer wall to save on space and wall building. It was usually militarily useful industry (ie, metalsmithing of various types). Cooking and possibly brewing might also happen, and cooking at least would have been handled in the keep itself. Industries including jewelry, carpentry (on a permanent basis), and other non-military production would have been outside the castle, quite possibly in a town nearby. <br />
<br />
(B) More isolated smaller castles would have done necessary production in the bailey on a temporary basis (ie, erecting a carpentry work area when needed and disassembling it afterwards), with a few permanent industries (notably blacksmithing).<br />
<br />
(C) 'Dark Ages' castles would be made of wood, and weren't large enough to accomodate much industry. Instead they would have imported everything. The early castle was a defensible home for the lord and his family, and would only house them and a few military retainers.<br />
<br />
It should be noted that the lack of focus on industry in a castle meant diverse tasks might share the same workspace and in fact be handled by the same person. The purpose of a castle is military, not production, and castle's only produced goods for internal demand that either could not be imported, would be inconvenient to import, or were critical to the military purpose (and couldn't afford access to those goods being lost during a siege).<br />
<br />
(D) A walled town would have no keep. Nobles would not live there. Basically, towns would build a wall around their perimeter for defense. More important towns often grew to encompass nearby castles, and often outgrew their walls - which might either lead to substantial portions beyond the walls or accruing walls occasionally to encompass new growth. Despite a castle potentially being encompassed by a town, the castle and town were administratively separate - towns receiving independent charters from the crown - and the town was never subject to the lord of the castle (who may well control the surrounding countryside).<br />
<br />
Given the nature of Dwarf Fortress, treating it as a town rather than a castle is probably preferable unless you really want to emphasize military skills, which could be interesting. You could, of course, create a castle and a town, keeping them as virtually separate entities, with military dwarves and nobles living in the castle and other dwarves living in the town.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:11, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:When did we start trying to make DF fit real-world history?<br />
:His idea seems perfectly fine when compared to in-game human towns/cities, as they have a keep and whatnot as part of the city. Only difference is adding a wall around it all. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:25, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Insane Renegade (just a thought) ==<br />
<br />
Well I was thinking something along these lines,<br />
<br />
They all think that your crazy, so you and some others ran. You shouldn't trust them... They want you dead. Except for the (random profession/job) they think like you. KILL THEM KILL ALL THAT OPPOSE YOU!!,<br />
<br />
Description:<br />
Xenophobia, Do not trade with others, Kill all immigrants except ones of a certain job/profession. If you want to go as a truly insane person, ban all statues and engravings of Dwarven faces (the statues, THE ROCKS! THEY ALL WANT ME DEAD!!!!) Be prepared for a long life of hatred and sieges.<br />
<br />
~LrZeph~<br />
<br />
P.S. if anyone edits this and puts it on the main thing please give me partial credit... Thank you and goodnight!<br />
<br />
:How is this different from [[Challenges#Outcast|Outcast]], aside from the RP? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:41, 22 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: Oh dear, i missed that one. never mind<br />
<br />
~LrZeph~ 15:11 23 June 2008<br />
<br />
== Dystopian society ==<br />
<br />
Anyone thought of making a fortress based off one of those dystopian futures found in scifi novels like 1984, We, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451? The way I imagine it, it would be similar to the Equaland challenge, with variations based on the dystopian principle of your choice. For example, if you want to encourage uniformity across your population, enable all labor for every dwarf and persecute anyone who skills up too quickly at a given skill. A strict caste system might also be implementable, a la Brave New World. Another idea would be to kill off or at least "re-educate" any dwarf that falls below ecstatic for an extended period of time. Tons of ideas at {{wiki|Dystopia}}. Thoughts? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:That sounds like a good challenge. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:24, 24 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Underwater Building ==<br />
<br />
I've decided to take on the underwater building challenge, and have started Migrurmestthos, The Ocean-Citadel. But ah... I can't for the live of me figure out how I'm going to get glass blocks to the bottom of the ocean. Any ideas? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 20:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT)<br><br />
''P.S.: I've altered the creature tokens and set my Dwarves to Aquatic.''<br />
<br />
:I recommend either<br />
:#Don't build it in the ocean.<br />
:#Use pumping to pump a large area of the top level of the ocean out. Do the same with a slightly smaller area one level down. Repeat as desired.<br />
:#Pump the ocean out, build, then let it flow back in. This is like the above, but with the whole visible ocean. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:45, 20 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Oookay, okay. I have single-handedly diverted the courses of raging rapids to give my children something to drink, harnessed the power of lava, and built towers of glass. However, I cannot help but approach the idea of pumping out '''the entire ocean''' with a bit of skepticism. Is this ''really'' possible? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 22:53, 21 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::Aye, it is. Aside from waves, the "entire" ocean is really, due to map limitations, just a large, fast-refilling lake. If you build a ring of pumps properly, you should be able to clear the water from a section, which can be as large as your fortress map. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 02:34, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::: I've personally been using 'canals' in my fortress for quite a while, and what I do is simply allocate nobles' rooms along the side of the canal, and before flooding the waterway, I dig into it and build glass windows and blocks so the nobles can watch the fish swim by. I doubt it actually raises the room value by any more than the glass windows' base value, but I like the effect. This isn't really an "underwater city" per se, but it's born of the same concept. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 07:45, 26 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Dwarf Factory ==<br />
<br />
--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:12, 28 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
Looking to develop this callenge concept:<br />
<br />
Your fortress is a highly specialized industrial complex. Select one item, or very narrow category of items. (ie Flour, Scepters, Shoes, Silk Bags, Crossbow Bolts) This is your factory's product. You must produce as much of it as possible, and it may only be used for export to any any and all caravans which visit your factory. Set up shift schedules, assign massive teams of dwarves (or even all of them!) to your core product, and generally devote your fort to maximizing output. <br />
<br />
Variants: <br /><br />
Assembly line - Each Dwarf is assigned a single stage of the production cycle, this is their only labour. Workshops should be grouped togeather by type, ordered based on the production cycle and grouped with relevant stockpiles.<br /><br />
Communal - Every Dwarf has every relevant labour enabled, in addition to whatever else they do for the fort.<br /><br />
High Management - For each Task in your production, appoint a department head. As the number of workers in each department grows, start appointing shift managers. As your factory expands in size, appoint reigonal coordinators and quality control bureaus. Cap this off with a board of directors and a CEO. None of these dwarves do anything but fill noble slots and build social skills.<br /><br />
Prison/Work Camp - Noble dwarves do not contribute to labour. Max the fortress/royal Guard at all times and draft 20% of the population into the army. The remaining dwarves are prisoners who must produce output. Build walls, rig traps, and make an example of anyone who fails to meet their quota.<br /><br />
People's Glorious Five-Year Plan - As above, but arrive with no skilled workers, rig all facilities with self destructs and kill switches, and only arm one in ten of your soldiers.<br /><br /><br />
<br />
Bonus: Only produce things vital to the survival of your workers, or directly involved in making your product. Anything else must be imported.<br /><br />
Further Bonus: Produce only your final product, all raw materials must be imported. spend the surplus on anything else you may need.<br />
<br />
How's it sound?<br />
<br />
== Luxurious Tomb ==<br />
<br />
Build an extravagant mausoleum for your entire dwarf community. Make it multi-leveled, make it a pyramid, make it out of glass if you want - but it must serve no other purpose than to be a dying place, and must not be accessed for any purpose other than to build it. Add a few decorations here and there, statues, tables, and a whole lot of coffins to house everyone.<br />
<br />
Once it's complete, turn your fortress into a ghost town. Remove the designation of all your stockpiles. Forbid all the workshops and forbid access to the different areas of the fort as they get deserted to limit dwarf movement. Lure everyone into the tomb, seal the entrance from the inside and watch everyone die inside their new mausoleum. The tomb should be designed such that the initial entry point cannot easily be guessed (i.e.: The entrance should be sealed using a wall or some other solid structure - not via a door you just mark forbidden.<br />
<br />
BONUS: make access to the tomb difficult or impossible, either by causing a cave-in in the tunnel that leads towards it, or by flooding the surrounding area in water or magma.<br />
<br />
BONUS #2: Build the tomb over a chasm. Find a way to drop the whole tomb-building into it once everyone's inside.<br />
<br />
:Suggestion: DON'T build it over a chasm; build it over a very large pit (deep enough to be called a 'chasm' by some) and make a set of ramps that lead down to the bottom. 1x2 setup; that is:<br />
^^<br />
^^<br />
^^<br />
^^<br />
^^<br />
^^<br />
..<br />
That is, up ramps, turn on normal flooring, then continue back up in the opposite direction. So a dwarf would travel in this path:<br />
VV<br />
VV<br />
VV<br />
VV<br />
VV<br />
VV<br />
>^<br />
:They'd come down the left ramp, turn left twice, and go down via the right ramp. Then they'd take two more lefts, and go down the left ramp, etc..<br />
:Just a neat little suggestion that's way too complicated, but'd look nice...also, {{k|V}} is a ramp; {{k|^}} is not.<br />
:I can't wait to try this out, then watch the temple I build go down, down, down, and '''SMASH'''--then use the ramps alongside it to view (and plunder, of course--it IS a tomb in adventure mode) it.<br />
:Oh, and just a Z-level view:<br />
| / <br />
| /<br />
| /<br />
|/<br />
|\<br />
| \<br />
| \<br />
| \<br />
:Or:<br />
| /<br />
| /<br />
| /<br />
|/___<br />
| /<br />
| /<br />
| /<br />
|/___<br />
:Etc.. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 23:45, 25 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Agoraphobia ==<br />
<br />
Your dwarves are absolutely terrified of the great outdoors, ([[carp|and]] [[Elephant|with]] [[Giant eagle|good]] [[undead|reason]] and want nothing more than to be nestled tightly in the "[[Giant Cave Spider|relative]] [[Pit|saftey]]" of the underground. Upon arrival, immediately burrow into the ground and haul all your supplies out of the sun's glare, and then never set foot on the surface again. Also, to help reduce anxiety, have no single chamber larger than 5x5, and let no hall stretch farther than 5 tiles between doors.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 11:42, 15 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== <insert material> Fort....wait, what? ==<br />
<br />
Ok, now I can understand a glass fort...and I can understand making it all outside, but how does one build it under water? Can someone please tell me how to do this so I can try to create my own Dwarven SeaLab? [[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 05:58, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I believe its either done via pump rings (enough screw pumps can hollow out sections of the ocean long enough to build something to hold the water back), or in a cold enough seasonal environment, only doing construction during the winter. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:44, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
:: The third option would be building the fort, and then making a lake around it. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 08:51, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Ceremonial Sacrifices ==<br />
<br />
Build an amazingly complex or spectacular killing device. A shaft that extends across the entire Z-plane is a good start. A constantly shifting maze of atomsmasher drawbridges is another. For the minimalist, a very confined space where you will drop a dwarf wrestler along with the gobbos once in a while. Perhaps a waterslide that carries your prisoner all the way down into a chasm? Whatever your idea, build it and dedicate your fort to the construction, maintenance and improvement of your device.<br />
<br />
Do not kill any of your invaders. Capture them using cage traps, and them set them off in your device. Keep a record of the number of victims you drop into it.</div>Shurikanehttp://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Challenges&diff=2252040d Talk:Challenges2008-09-09T17:51:22Z<p>Shurikane: Luxurious Tomb</p>
<hr />
<div>==Colorful==<br />
This is an idea I got by reading trough all the challenges, what if you make it a goal to have the fortress in the colour of the rainbow. (Example, 80x80 tile fortress, first 10 tiles are red, second 10 tiles are brown-orange, the third 10 are yellow and go on) --[[User:G1real|G1real]] 08:43, 27 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Sparta==<br />
"You shouldn't create chainmail or plate armour."<br />
<br>why? --Savok <br />
:because spartans don't wear chest armor. you should definately watch 300, it's like Dwarf Fortress on crack! --AlexFili <br />
::from what I've read, 300 isn't an accurate depiction of Spartan life. However, this challenge build is based on 300 --Savok<br />
:::Alright, fair point, 300 was based from a graphic novel, but many similarities between Spartans in 300 and in real history are present. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 10:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT) <br />
::::"However, this challenge build is based on 300" No it isn't. At least, it wasn't intended to be. I guess I shouldn't have referred to pop culture when I added it. --juckto<br />
:::::The hell with it. Split off spartans from 300. [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 16:55, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::::Not only did Spartans use chest armour (although in the form of bronze muscel cuirasses), but it was illegal and finable to fight without your armour. Theres one story of a Prince praying in Temple when some enemies attacked, he ran out naked and killed them, the Oligarchs awarded and praised him with one hand and then fined him with the other. Further specific Spartan attributes, the largely did not wear sandals except during war (don't want your feet to be soft and flabby, gotta make them rock-proof), Sparta itself didn't rely on walls (although they did use them [notably at the battle of the Hot Gates to keep the Persians from landing south of the gates] and the city did eventually make some). Theres also the complicated issue of their government, not sure how to replicate that, dual monarchy with the Kings having no real governmental powers and an oligarchy ruling at home. Maybe having a Legendary warrior lead each of two squads and having every position (Book Keeper, Mayor, Captain of the Guard even maybe) filled by a useless fat rich guy in a nice shiny house. I should also point out alot of their generals and kings were known for a love of gold and that 50% of the population being in the military is not very accurate, actual Spartan soldiers were vastly outnumbered by the Helots. --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
==No mining==<br />
Now that you construct walls and fortifications out of wood, I wonder if anyone is going to take on a 'no mining' challenge? You're going to need a ''lot'' of wood! --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 17:00, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Some people already are :p --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:44, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Assassination==<br />
I tried "Assassination" the other day and found that it was incredibly easy with a group of axedwarves. Not only did I kill the hardest-to-get-at goblin, I killed every last other goblin too. In the end, there were only 2 dogs and 2 dwarves dead (the last one fell, sadly, to the last goblin left, who was hiding in the tunnels.--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 22:51, 15 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Now do it with 7 untrained dwarves with no armor. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 19:30, 29 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Humanlike? ==<br />
It should be noted that the 'human-like fortress' as described is historically inaccurate. In particular, its either misrepresenting or confusing various details. One major point is that a _castle_ never incorporated a town. There are walled towns and there are castles, but these are entirely different things. A couple of historical periods/styles would lead to the following different suggestions:<br />
<br />
(A) Larger (stone) medieval castles sometimes had industry in the bailey. This was often pressed up against the outer wall to save on space and wall building. It was usually militarily useful industry (ie, metalsmithing of various types). Cooking and possibly brewing might also happen, and cooking at least would have been handled in the keep itself. Industries including jewelry, carpentry (on a permanent basis), and other non-military production would have been outside the castle, quite possibly in a town nearby. <br />
<br />
(B) More isolated smaller castles would have done necessary production in the bailey on a temporary basis (ie, erecting a carpentry work area when needed and disassembling it afterwards), with a few permanent industries (notably blacksmithing).<br />
<br />
(C) 'Dark Ages' castles would be made of wood, and weren't large enough to accomodate much industry. Instead they would have imported everything. The early castle was a defensible home for the lord and his family, and would only house them and a few military retainers.<br />
<br />
It should be noted that the lack of focus on industry in a castle meant diverse tasks might share the same workspace and in fact be handled by the same person. The purpose of a castle is military, not production, and castle's only produced goods for internal demand that either could not be imported, would be inconvenient to import, or were critical to the military purpose (and couldn't afford access to those goods being lost during a siege).<br />
<br />
(D) A walled town would have no keep. Nobles would not live there. Basically, towns would build a wall around their perimeter for defense. More important towns often grew to encompass nearby castles, and often outgrew their walls - which might either lead to substantial portions beyond the walls or accruing walls occasionally to encompass new growth. Despite a castle potentially being encompassed by a town, the castle and town were administratively separate - towns receiving independent charters from the crown - and the town was never subject to the lord of the castle (who may well control the surrounding countryside).<br />
<br />
Given the nature of Dwarf Fortress, treating it as a town rather than a castle is probably preferable unless you really want to emphasize military skills, which could be interesting. You could, of course, create a castle and a town, keeping them as virtually separate entities, with military dwarves and nobles living in the castle and other dwarves living in the town.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:11, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:When did we start trying to make DF fit real-world history?<br />
:His idea seems perfectly fine when compared to in-game human towns/cities, as they have a keep and whatnot as part of the city. Only difference is adding a wall around it all. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:25, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Insane Renegade (just a thought) ==<br />
<br />
Well I was thinking something along these lines,<br />
<br />
They all think that your crazy, so you and some others ran. You shouldn't trust them... They want you dead. Except for the (random profession/job) they think like you. KILL THEM KILL ALL THAT OPPOSE YOU!!,<br />
<br />
Description:<br />
Xenophobia, Do not trade with others, Kill all immigrants except ones of a certain job/profession. If you want to go as a truly insane person, ban all statues and engravings of Dwarven faces (the statues, THE ROCKS! THEY ALL WANT ME DEAD!!!!) Be prepared for a long life of hatred and sieges.<br />
<br />
~LrZeph~<br />
<br />
P.S. if anyone edits this and puts it on the main thing please give me partial credit... Thank you and goodnight!<br />
<br />
:How is this different from [[Challenges#Outcast|Outcast]], aside from the RP? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:41, 22 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: Oh dear, i missed that one. never mind<br />
<br />
~LrZeph~ 15:11 23 June 2008<br />
<br />
== Dystopian society ==<br />
<br />
Anyone thought of making a fortress based off one of those dystopian futures found in scifi novels like 1984, We, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451? The way I imagine it, it would be similar to the Equaland challenge, with variations based on the dystopian principle of your choice. For example, if you want to encourage uniformity across your population, enable all labor for every dwarf and persecute anyone who skills up too quickly at a given skill. A strict caste system might also be implementable, a la Brave New World. Another idea would be to kill off or at least "re-educate" any dwarf that falls below ecstatic for an extended period of time. Tons of ideas at {{wiki|Dystopia}}. Thoughts? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:That sounds like a good challenge. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:24, 24 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Underwater Building ==<br />
<br />
I've decided to take on the underwater building challenge, and have started Migrurmestthos, The Ocean-Citadel. But ah... I can't for the live of me figure out how I'm going to get glass blocks to the bottom of the ocean. Any ideas? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 20:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT)<br><br />
''P.S.: I've altered the creature tokens and set my Dwarves to Aquatic.''<br />
<br />
:I recommend either<br />
:#Don't build it in the ocean.<br />
:#Use pumping to pump a large area of the top level of the ocean out. Do the same with a slightly smaller area one level down. Repeat as desired.<br />
:#Pump the ocean out, build, then let it flow back in. This is like the above, but with the whole visible ocean. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:45, 20 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Oookay, okay. I have single-handedly diverted the courses of raging rapids to give my children something to drink, harnessed the power of lava, and built towers of glass. However, I cannot help but approach the idea of pumping out '''the entire ocean''' with a bit of skepticism. Is this ''really'' possible? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 22:53, 21 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::Aye, it is. Aside from waves, the "entire" ocean is really, due to map limitations, just a large, fast-refilling lake. If you build a ring of pumps properly, you should be able to clear the water from a section, which can be as large as your fortress map. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 02:34, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::: I've personally been using 'canals' in my fortress for quite a while, and what I do is simply allocate nobles' rooms along the side of the canal, and before flooding the waterway, I dig into it and build glass windows and blocks so the nobles can watch the fish swim by. I doubt it actually raises the room value by any more than the glass windows' base value, but I like the effect. This isn't really an "underwater city" per se, but it's born of the same concept. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 07:45, 26 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Dwarf Factory ==<br />
<br />
--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:12, 28 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
Looking to develop this callenge concept:<br />
<br />
Your fortress is a highly specialized industrial complex. Select one item, or very narrow category of items. (ie Flour, Scepters, Shoes, Silk Bags, Crossbow Bolts) This is your factory's product. You must produce as much of it as possible, and it may only be used for export to any any and all caravans which visit your factory. Set up shift schedules, assign massive teams of dwarves (or even all of them!) to your core product, and generally devote your fort to maximizing output. <br />
<br />
Variants: <br /><br />
Assembly line - Each Dwarf is assigned a single stage of the production cycle, this is their only labour. Workshops should be grouped togeather by type, ordered based on the production cycle and grouped with relevant stockpiles.<br /><br />
Communal - Every Dwarf has every relevant labour enabled, in addition to whatever else they do for the fort.<br /><br />
High Management - For each Task in your production, appoint a department head. As the number of workers in each department grows, start appointing shift managers. As your factory expands in size, appoint reigonal coordinators and quality control bureaus. Cap this off with a board of directors and a CEO. None of these dwarves do anything but fill noble slots and build social skills.<br /><br />
Prison/Work Camp - Noble dwarves do not contribute to labour. Max the fortress/royal Guard at all times and draft 20% of the population into the army. The remaining dwarves are prisoners who must produce output. Build walls, rig traps, and make an example of anyone who fails to meet their quota.<br /><br />
People's Glorious Five-Year Plan - As above, but arrive with no skilled workers, rig all facilities with self destructs and kill switches, and only arm one in ten of your soldiers.<br /><br /><br />
<br />
Bonus: Only produce things vital to the survival of your workers, or directly involved in making your product. Anything else must be imported.<br /><br />
Further Bonus: Produce only your final product, all raw materials must be imported. spend the surplus on anything else you may need.<br />
<br />
How's it sound?<br />
<br />
== Luxurious Tomb ==<br />
<br />
Build an extravagant mausoleum for your entire dwarf community. Make it multi-leveled, make it a pyramid, make it out of glass if you want - but it must serve no other purpose than to be a dying place, and must not be accessed for any purpose other than to build it. Add a few decorations here and there, statues, tables, and a whole lot of coffins to house everyone.<br />
<br />
Once it's complete, turn your fortress into a ghost town. Remove the designation of all your stockpiles. Forbid all the workshops and forbid access to the different areas of the fort as they get deserted to limit dwarf movement. Lure everyone into the tomb, seal the entrance from the inside and watch everyone die inside their new mausoleum. The tomb should be designed such that the initial entry point cannot easily be guessed (i.e.: The entrance should be sealed using a wall or some other solid structure - not via a door you just mark forbidden.<br />
<br />
BONUS: make access to the tomb difficult or impossible, either by causing a cave-in in the tunnel that leads towards it, or by flooding the surrounding area in water or magma.<br />
<br />
BONUS #2: Build the tomb over a chasm. Find a way to drop the whole tomb-building into it once everyone's inside.</div>Shurikane