http://dwarffortresswiki.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Zchris13&feedformat=atomDwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T12:46:25ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.35.11http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Other_weapon&diff=5858740d:Other weapon2009-11-23T17:41:15Z<p>Zchris13: Yes. It does need explanation.</p>
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<div>In [[Fortress mode]], there are only [[Weapon#Dwarf_weapons|7 weapon]]s* that dwarfs can make for themselves and are considered "standard", but there are about a dozen '''other weapons''' that can be acquired, either by [[trading]] or recovering them from enemies who no longer have any use for them. Dwarves can use some of these, but not all, for melee combat, and each that is usable is associated with a standard [[military]] weapon skill. In Fortress Mode, no other missile weapons are usable by dwarves in combat, but all weapons are usable in [[Trap#Weapon_Trap|weapons traps]].<br />
<br />
:''(* These are the [[battle axe]], [[mace]], [[pick]], [[short sword]], [[spear]], and [[war hammer]] for melee combat, and the [[crossbow]], which can be used for both [[marksdwarf|ranged attacks]] and, if/when necessary, [[combat|melee combat]] as well.)''<br />
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As with any [[weapon]], both [[Weapon#Material_damage_modifiers|material]] and [[quality]] can improve their effectiveness in combat.<br />
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In [[Adventure mode]], a character can use any of these, [[size]] permitting.<br />
<br />
<br />
==Other weapons: statistics & comparison ==<br />
<br />
For a comparison of all weapons side by side, see [[Weapon#Weapon_statistics|Weapons: Weapon statistics]].<br />
<br />
''(Note - dwarves can not use these in fortress mode unless marked with an *)''<br />
<br />
{|cellpadding="2" border="1" class="wikitable sortable"<br />
! Name !! Damage !! Damage Type !! Skill Used !! Crit. Boost <br />
|-<br />
| [[Blowgun]]&dagger; (melee) || 20 || [[Bludgeon]] || Sword || None<br />
|-<br />
| [[Bow]]&dagger; (melee) || 40 || [[Bludgeon]] || Sword || None<br />
|-<br />
| [[#Large dagger|Large dagger]] || 70 || [[Slash]] || Dagger || 1<br />
|-<br />
| [[#Flail|Flail]] || 130 || [[Bludgeon]] || Mace || None<br />
|-<br />
| [[#Great axe|Great axe]]&Dagger; || 150 || [[Slash]] || Axe || None<br />
|-<br />
| [[#Halberd|Halberd]]&Dagger; || 140 || [[Slash]] || Axe || None<br />
|-<br />
| [[#Long sword|Long sword]]* &dagger; || 120 || [[Slash]] || Sword || 1<br />
|-<br />
| [[#Maul|Maul]]&Dagger; || 160 || [[Bludgeon]] || Hammer || None<br />
|-<br />
| [[#Morningstar|Morningstar]]* || 120 || [[Bludgeon]] || Mace || None<br />
|-<br />
| [[#Pike|Pike]] || 120 || [[Pierce]] || Spear || 2<br />
|-<br />
| [[#Scimitar|Scimitar]]* || 100 || [[Slash]] || Sword || 1<br />
|-<br />
| [[#Scourge|Scourge]] || 30 || [[Gore]] || Whip/Lasher || None<br />
|-<br />
| [[#Two-handed sword|Two-handed sword]]&Dagger; || 140 || [[Slash]] || Sword || 1<br />
|-<br />
| [[#Whip|Whip]]&dagger; || 20 || [[Gore]] || Whip/Lasher || None<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
&dagger; ''Dwarves wield weapon two-handed (set number of weapons to 2 in fort mode ({{k|v}}-{{k|p}}-{{k|s}}-{{k|m}}))'' <br> &Dagger; ''Dwarves cannot wield weapon (too large)''<br> * ''Can be used by dwarves in fortress mode''<br />
<br />
== Blowgun ==<br />
<br />
Basically a small tube out of which you blow "deadly" darts.<br />
<br />
No main race has this [[weapon]], unless you mod it in. A dwarf can make a blowgun in a [[bowyer's workshop]] after being struck by a [[Strange mood]]. These weapons are extremely rare to find. Unfortunately in Fortress Mode you cannot create darts for use, and any dwarf wielding the blowgun will use it as a melee weapon.<br />
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When firing it increases the [[blowgunner]] skill. Melee with this weapon is a pathetically small [[bludgeon]] attack, and increases [[swordsman]] skill.<br />
<br />
==== dart ====<br />
<br />
The darts don't do a lot of damage, but can still be almost as dangerous as [[arrow]]s because they can [[pierce]] organs, which can kill instantly.<br />
<br />
== Bow ==<br />
<br />
A '''bow''' works the same way as a [[crossbow]], except that it uses [[arrow]]s instead of [[bolt]]s. [[Dwarf|Dwarves]] cannot equip bows (stubby fingers), and the interface is such that they still cannot be wielded in [[Fortress Mode]] at all, even with [[Modding guide|modding]]. They can still be used in [[weapon trap]]s, although you can't make arrows and so will be dependent on [[merchant]]s and spoils of war to supply trap reloads.<br />
<br />
When firing arrows it uses the [[marksman|bowman]] skill. When attacking with melee, it uses the [[swordsman]] skill, although it's a bludgeoning attack.<br />
<br />
==== Arrow ====<br />
An '''arrow''' is just like a [[bolt]] but for bows. [[Dwarves]] can't handle bows, so they don't need arrows. But in [[adventure mode]], [[humans]] and [[elves]] can use bows, so they will need arrows if they choose to use one.<br />
<br />
Arrows can also be thrown in adventure mode for about the same results, except that it uses the [[thrower]] skill.<br />
<br />
'''See also:''' <br />
*[[Quiver]]<br />
<br />
== Large dagger ==<br />
<br />
In Dwarf Fortress, any dagger is "large". '''Large daggers''' are wielded by [[Kobold]] and [[Goblin]] [[thief|thieves]] only. They do small [[slashing]] damage, but have a critical bonus, which means they usually are not anything to worry about, but occasionally get brutally lucky.<br />
<br />
In [[adventure mode]], no other race has them or can even start with one. If an adventurer finds one of these [[weapon]]s, they can train with them. Those who use daggers always do [[slashing]] damage with them, there is no stabbing for [[piercing]] damage. In this game they are basically small [[sword]]s, as they can sever limbs as well on a lucky hit.<br />
<br />
These weapons use the [[Knife user]] skill.<br />
<br />
== Flail ==<br />
<br />
A [[weapon]] comprised of one or more chains with a spiked ball or metal-studded bar at one end and a handle at the other. Does more [[damage]] than the [[Morningstar]], and uses the same skill, [[maceman]]. Goblins are known to wield these weapons.<br />
<br />
== Great axe ==<br />
<br />
The Great axe is a large version of the [[battle axe]]. Too large for a dwarf to use.<br />
<br />
This weapon is too large to be used by most races, even though two handed ([[Invader]]s tend to ignore this restriction).<br />
<br />
== Halberd ==<br />
A halberd is a long axe or a short pole-arm weapon. It is two-handed for a human-sized character, but too large for a dwarf to use.<br />
<br />
== Long sword ==<br />
A typical human-sized weapon. Dwarves can wield them using two hands.<br />
<br />
== Maul ==<br />
<br />
The '''Maul''' is a large heavy [[hammer]] and is the highest damaging melee [[weapon]] in the game, despite being a bludgeoning weapon. It can only be wielded by a [[human]], and even then it requires both hands.<br />
<br />
It uses the [[hammerman]] skill.<br />
<br />
In fortress mode, [[invader]]s can use both a maul and a [[shield]].<br />
<br />
== Morningstar ==<br />
<br />
A '''Morningstar''' is a spiked ball directly attached to a handle. Does less [[damage]] than the [[flail]]. Damage is identical to the regular [[mace]].<br />
<br />
Uses the [[Maceman]] skill. Dwarfs can equip it.<br />
<br />
== Pike ==<br />
<br />
:''For the fish, see [[Pike (fish)]].''<br />
<br />
A '''pike''' is a very long spear. It does more [[damage]] than the normal [[spear]], and still has the same critical boost. Only [[human]]s can wield them in [[fortress mode]] and, even then, it uses both hands. It is possible to use a pike as a [[dwarf|dwarven]] adventurer.<br />
<br />
This [[weapon]] trains the [[Pikeman]] skill when used in adventure mode. [[Image:Pike example.jpg|right|thumb|250px]]<br />
<br />
For unknown reasons all two-handed weapons, including pikes, can be used one-handed, even by creatures who are smaller than the minimum size needed to use the weapon two-handed.{{verify}}<br />
<br />
In real life, the pike was used as a great defensive weapon and was at its best against fast moving units such as cavalry or knights. When defending against a charge of mounted attackers, the back of the pike was often placed on the ground or against an obstacle to keep the weapon straight and absorb the hits.<br />
<br />
Contrary to the game mechanics, real life pikemen were usually not using their pike as their primary weapon but as a first line of defense. Pikes were known to get stuck or break easily because of the physical nature of the weapon itself, and thus were often used in conjunction with a shield or buckler and a more conventional melee weapon (see image to the right).<br />
<br />
== Scimitar ==<br />
<br />
The '''Scimitar''' is a sword with a heavy curved blade. Its statistics are effectively identical to the [[short sword]], but it cannot be made of rock, and [[dwarves]] cannot make it at all. They can however use it one handed just fine.<br />
<br />
Uses the [[Swordsman]] skill.<br />
<br />
== Scourge ==<br />
<br />
The '''scourge''' is a slightly more deadly version of a [[whip]]. Although still doing weak [[damage]], it causes gore damage, which can cause massive bleeding or pain. Effective against living, unarmored [[creatures]]. Very weak against non-living creatures.<br />
<br />
It uses the [[lasher]] skill. Since dwarves cannot use this skill, it can be melted down or used in a [[Trap]].<br />
<br />
== Two-handed sword ==<br />
<br />
(Does this really need explanation? I mean... ''really''?) Big sword with high damage. Too large for a dwarf to use.<br />
<br />
== Whip ==<br />
<br />
A '''whip''' is a [[weapon]] that does weak [[damage]], but it causes gore damage, which can cause massive bleeding or pain. Effective against living, preferably small, unarmored [[creatures]]. Very weak against [[undead]] creatures. Whips are unusable by [[dwarves]], but [[goblin]]s use them sometimes. [[Human]] lashers will guard their caravan sometimes. A better version of a whip is called a [[scourge]].<br />
<br />
It uses the [[lasher]] skill.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
<br />
''See Also:<br />
:*<br />
:*<br />
[[Category:Weapons]]<br />
[[Category:Ammo]]</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Billon&diff=5846740d Talk:Billon2009-11-19T17:44:52Z<p>Zchris13: </p>
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<div>== Coins? ==<br />
The page says: "Historically, this was used to mint coins, and that is also one of its uses in this game." I was under the impression that only gold, silver and copper can be used as currency? Can somebody clarify if billon coins can be used as currency? If yes or no, this should be clarified! --[[Special:Contributions/200.105.223.91|200.105.223.91]] 01:06, 6 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:sorry that was me--[[User:Overspeculated|Overspeculated]] 01:08, 6 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::They cannot be used as currency, only as collector's coins for other dwarves to purchase, unless you were to edit raw/objects/entity_default.txt and add [CURRENCY:BILLON:3] to the dwarf entry. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:21, 6 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
----<br />
I was under the impression that it was called billion, not billon. What gives?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:44, 19 November 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Kami&diff=58254User talk:Kami2009-11-13T17:49:20Z<p>Zchris13: </p>
<hr />
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----<br />
Dude. Epic fix on that flood page. Too bad nobody sees it.<br /><br />
Dude. Epic idea on that dragon defence. Too bad it doesn't work. And has been thought of. It's called the Dragon Pillbox.<br /><br />
For clarification, dragons will only attempt to breath at things they can path to. If it can't path, no firebreath. This is, I think, different from marksdwarves and goblins and such. They only need to see.<br /><br />
The rope prevents that dragon from pathing to the enemy (this is verified behavior for at least GCS). He needs an unlocked, but not pet passable door. This may cause lag. I recommend using 2 doors; one door attached to a lever, that acts as an on-off switch for the dragon (hook up the lever to a bunch of floodgates as shielding), the other unlocked, but tightly closed. Only activate it when the enemies get close. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:46, 13 November 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Kami&diff=58253User talk:Kami2009-11-13T17:46:44Z<p>Zchris13: Dragon pillbox.</p>
<hr />
<div><br />Welcome to this wiki! Dwarf Fortress rapidly becomes more complicated, and we're always glad to have new writers.<br><br />
Since we prefer that you try to follow our wiki's standards, we've made a list of basic guidelines. This is a template.<br />
* To let us know who you are, please sign your posts on discussion pages by typing <code><nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki></code> after your posts. This can also be inserted with the [[Image:Button sig756222.png]] button if JavaScript is enabled.<br />
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* Avoid making many small edits to a page. Instead, try to make one large edit. This makes the history of the page a lot easier to read.<br />
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<div align=center><div style="width: 28em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.5em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]''</div></div><br />
----<br />
Dude. Epic idea on that flood page. Too bad nobody sees it.<br /><br />
Dude. Epic idea on that dragon defence. Too bad it doesn't work. And has been thought of. It's called the Dragon Pillbox.<br /><br />
For clarification, dragons will only attempt to breath at things they can path to. If it can't path, no firebreath. This is, I think, different from marksdwarves and goblins and such. They only need to see.<br /><br />
The rope prevents that dragon from pathing to the enemy (this is verified behavior for at least GCS). He needs an unlocked, but not pet passable door. This may cause lag. I recommend using 2 doors; one door attached to a lever, that acts as an on-off switch for the dragon (hook up the lever to a bunch of floodgates as shielding), the other unlocked, but tightly closed. Only activate it when the enemies get close. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:46, 13 November 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Hussell&diff=58252User talk:Hussell2009-11-13T17:16:31Z<p>Zchris13: /* Assorted Devices */</p>
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<div>== Assorted Devices ==<br />
<br />
In the machines you've built, how does the water drop below 7/7 when input cuts off? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:40, 9 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Either it doesn't, because the 7/7 water is deliberately trapped in order to keep the pressure plate from sending a signal, or a door opens to allow the 7/7 water to spread into two or more squares, lowering it enough to trigger a change. Closing doors annihilate any water in their squares. [[User:Hussell|Hussell]] 14:48, 9 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Oh, I see. I was thrown off since you have the drainage doors on the same side as the input control doors. This seems like it could cause unnecessary complications. In your [[User:Hussell/DataLatch|data latch]], for example, you will need to do some extra work to get it running for the first time since the closed drainage doors will prevent any water from triggering the yellow and cyan pressure plates. It seems this initialization problem could be avoided by placing the yellow and cyan doors to the right of the plates. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:03, 9 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'm aware that it's awkward to get the things running the first time. It's a disadvantage of using doors for everything. Unfortunately, it seems to be an unavoidable disadvantage. In the Data Latch, if the changes you suggest are made, then the output signals will both go to CLOSED while the clock signal is off if the data signal turns on and off. Even if the plate trigger threshold is lowered, turning the data signal on and off would eventually annihilate enough water to send both outputs to the CLOSED state. [[User:Hussell|Hussell]] 00:52, 10 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
----<br />
Bro, you should try some gear toggles. They are instant, I think, and toggle. Also, the pumps may actually only check for power every so ofton. Maybe this is the delay.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:15, 13 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
Good luck.</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Hussell&diff=58251User talk:Hussell2009-11-13T17:15:52Z<p>Zchris13: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Assorted Devices ==<br />
<br />
In the machines you've built, how does the water drop below 7/7 when input cuts off? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:40, 9 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Either it doesn't, because the 7/7 water is deliberately trapped in order to keep the pressure plate from sending a signal, or a door opens to allow the 7/7 water to spread into two or more squares, lowering it enough to trigger a change. Closing doors annihilate any water in their squares. [[User:Hussell|Hussell]] 14:48, 9 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Oh, I see. I was thrown off since you have the drainage doors on the same side as the input control doors. This seems like it could cause unnecessary complications. In your [[User:Hussell/DataLatch|data latch]], for example, you will need to do some extra work to get it running for the first time since the closed drainage doors will prevent any water from triggering the yellow and cyan pressure plates. It seems this initialization problem could be avoided by placing the yellow and cyan doors to the right of the plates. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:03, 9 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'm aware that it's awkward to get the things running the first time. It's a disadvantage of using doors for everything. Unfortunately, it seems to be an unavoidable disadvantage. In the Data Latch, if the changes you suggest are made, then the output signals will both go to CLOSED while the clock signal is off if the data signal turns on and off. Even if the plate trigger threshold is lowered, turning the data signal on and off would eventually annihilate enough water to send both outputs to the CLOSED state. [[User:Hussell|Hussell]] 00:52, 10 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Bro, you should try some gear toggles. They are instant, I think, and toggle. Also, the pumps may actually only check for power every so ofton. Maybe this is the delay.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:15, 13 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
Good luck.</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Gem&diff=5680240d Talk:Gem2009-11-02T17:18:03Z<p>Zchris13: /* "cut glass" */</p>
<hr />
<div>most of the gems have specific environments, but it would be a huge pain to organize it [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:12, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
Toady One said under such metals as [[Bismuth bronze]] that he was trying to avoid using names specific to real-world places. I see several gems where he wasn't able to avoid it. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 23:10, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Large Gems==<br />
So... What's the difference between large gems and cut gems? [[User:Xaque|Xaque]] 09:42, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:Large gems are a "finished produce." Cut gems are used to decorate stuff [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:12, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::So how do I make large gems for a mandate? All the ones I have cut just end up ordinary sized (no label). [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 04:45, 3 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::Ok there is a small percentage chance that a gem will be cut into a large gem. Had to cut some 20+ gems to fill my mandate. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 06:12, 3 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
:::You make large gems by having a legendary gem cutter try several times. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 00:00, 11 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::Actually, when a rough gem is cut into a large gem, is the large gem is a by-product (meaning a cut gem AND a large gem are produced) or is it that only a large gem is produced?<br />
:::::A large gem is produced ''instead'' of a cut gem. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 17:59, 27 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Glass bar ==<br />
:''However, this appears to requires a Glass Bar, which is not possible to create at the current time.''<br />
I'll have to double check this when I get back to the machine with dwarf fortress on it - but I seem to recall being able to make 'raw glass' which made a glass block.<br />
I would also suggest changing the redirect for glass to gem - there is a significant amount of material that is unique to glass that is not appropriate for gems in general. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 03:22, 10 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::Can't make glass bars. You can make raw glass which comes out as a rough gem, or you can make glass blocks. Glass blocks are not gems and one cannot become the other. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 00:00, 11 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Availability ==<br />
Alright, during my hours of game play, I've found out that depth(in z-levels) and the maximum rarity/value of available gems within the current layer are connected. The deeper you dig, the more valuable gems you'll find. However... With modding I've discovered that it's impossible to find very valuable metamorphic, sedimentary and igneous extrusive only gems. Since those layers never reach the necessary depth. It also means that more valuable metamorphic, sedimentary and igneous extrusive only gems are a lot more rarer than their igneous intrusive counter parts. Could anyone conform this? [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 13:29, 20 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:Whoops! I messed up the layers! Fixed it. Oh, and the rarity of a gem seems to be dependent on it's value. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 08:58, 21 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:Have you tried maps with steep cliffs? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:37, 21 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::I haven't run tests on steeper than 4 Z-level cliffs, but from what I gather, the maximum rarity of gems available at the any given depth is calculated based on the relative depth not absolute depth. Meaning that, wherever you are, you need to dig the same amount of Z-levels to reach any specific rarity of gems. It's the same as stone layers. If there's a cliff within a biome, then the underlaying layers will begin at a higher Z-level below the cliff, depending on high the cliff is. I hope, that I'm not too confusing here... [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 08:38, 22 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:::I suspect it may work by the listed depth. The number that shows up when you loo{{k|k}} at a tile, which refers how many levels you would need to count directly upward to reach the surface. On a severe cliff map you can easily have a "depth" of 15+ among the sedimentary layers. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:36, 23 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::: Once I found a star sapphire(?) quite shallow within the mountain, I found it when I was building my prison so I only had about 70 Dorfs at the time, bug or luck? [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 08:30, 10 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Rock crystal ==<br />
<br />
Can anyone confirm that this gem can be found in this version? In what stone layers/at what depth did you find one? It's material value should better be like that of a diamond because raw crystal glass is needed for moods from time to time.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:38, 22 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
According to forum, people have round it [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]] 12:24, 23 November 2007 (EST)<br />
: I can confirm finding a cluster of rock crystal in ver 40d. It was on the bottom level of my map (z=134) in a layer of diorite. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 16:37, 5 January 2009 (EST)<br />
::I found some recently, but then lost the fortress so I can't tell you the level. I'm using version 40d. [[Special:Contributions/76.21.242.134|76.21.242.134]] 15:26, 11 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
::: Just got some, in a layer of diorite, too. It was the bottom layer. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 20:08, 11 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Redirects ==<br />
<br />
There should be a redirect for each gem type to the subsection containing that gem. For example, I just created [[Heliodor]] as <nowiki>#REDIRECT [[Gem#Semi-Precious]]</nowiki>. IMO, any game item should go straight from the search box to the most relevant article: that is what redirects do.<br />
So <s>if</s> when a whole slew of redirects show up linking here... yeah, ididit.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:55, 11 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== What the various gems look like in real life ==<br />
<br />
I got bored one afternoon and put together a website with pictures of most of the various gems listed in the game. It is located at [http://www.geocities.com/dwarven.gemologist]<br />
--[[User:Dwarven Gemologist|Gemmy]] 16:04, 14 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:<nowiki>http://www.geocities.com/dwarven.gemologist/gems.html</nowiki><br />
:"Sorry, the page you requested was not found." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:00, 14 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
Wow, I thought after ten years of building websites that I would automatically double check my links. It's fixed now. --[[User:Dwarven Gemologist|Gemmy]] 01:05, 17 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
I have to say, Gemmy, that is awesome! [[User:Pariah|Pariah]] 09:20, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:the location now is http://www.geocities.com/dwarven.gemologist/gemvalues.html --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 15:06, 22 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Organization==<br />
:Is there any reason the page is organized as it is? Wouldn't it make more sense to sort gems alphabetically within rarity categories? Or at least group similar gems (ie, Opals, etc...) within rarity categories? Because the current layout is not useful for locating particular gems. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:02, 25 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::You're right. You should go and organize it.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 01:11, 25 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::Went ahead and did it, since it was getting on my nerves as well. --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 22:22, 4 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::: Ok, the current setup is nice, it's alphabetized, but I was just looking at the [[creatures]] page, and it hit me. Why don't we do the same thing for the gems page? We could sort it by name, value and location. However, I don't know how the wiki syntax for that would work. I will attempt to figure it out for my self unless someone wants to point me in the right direction. I was thinking of just adapting the creature page to the gems page, but the more I look at it, the more I think it was written excusivily for the creature page. I shall investigate. --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 19:05, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::It's possible - it just takes some time. Which I don't have as I'm currently supposed to be working on a school project. Btw, if you're curious, [[Template:Creature table head|header template]], [[Template:Creature table row|row template]], [[Template:Creature table footer|redundant footer template]]. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 19:20, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::: Sweet, that worked wonderfully. I think it looks much better now! --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 21:06, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::: If the gems were named backwards (Jasper, brown) then similar types of gems would end up together alphabetically. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:36, 11 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== quality ==<br />
<br />
can gem cuts get quality modifiers?<br />
:no, but normal rough gems will occasionally be cut into a large gem- the item does get a quality modifier. (and that is usually how legendary gem cutters are born)<br />
<br />
== moonstone ==<br />
<br />
isn't a gem unless some new version was released<br />
:Yep, it is a gem. I can post a screencap if needed. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 21:16, 9 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: I found it t0o... I'll see if I can add the info. [[User:Zara|Zara]] 11:45, 10 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
{{game Data|<br />
[MATGLOSS_STONE:MOONSTONE]<br />
<br />
[VALUE:2][COLOR:7:7:1][TILE:15][GEM:moonstone:STP]<br />
<br />
[ENVIRONMENT:METAMORPHIC:CLUSTER_SMALL:100]}}[[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:25, 12 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Game vs. Real Gem Locations ==<br />
<br />
Am I the only one getting annoyed at some of the bizarre decisions made by Toady One with respect to gems? Rubies and Sapphires are both produced in igneous rock, although generally mined from placer deposits because they are sparsely distributed. Ruby forms in extrusive igneous, typically basalt. Why they are found in Bauxite in the game I can't even begin to fathom, especially as Bauxite is only notable as an *aluminum* ore (although not within the technology level of the game). Placer deposits should be gravels or the sedimentary compressions thereof (probably sand and/or sandstone in the game, although that's not quite right because the game doesn't handle riverine deposits at all - or we should have dwarves able to pan for gold/gems).<br />
<br />
And diamonds igniting when contacting magma is really funny considering Kimberlite is cooled magma that brought the diamonds up from the lower mantle.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:14, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:I don't know enough geology to say anything about the Rubies and Sapphires, but the Diamonds catching fire does actually make sense. Diamonds are nothing but pure carbon, add a bit of oxygen and a good deal of heat and soon nothing will be left. The Diamonds form slowly as the magma cools into Kimberlite, and the reason they don't combust when surrouned by warm stone is due to the lack of oxygen for the carbon to bond with and the massive pressure. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 13:24, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Diamonds are much older than the Kimberlite deposits. They don't form in the Kimberlite - they form in the upper mantle and are brought to/near the surface by the Kimberlite. Most diamonds on the market are over 1 billion years old. So the actual diamond survives magma temperatures for its trip to the surface. Just because they're carbon doesn't mean that carbon is easily available for oxidation - at some temperature diamonds revert to graphite and then can burn, but that requires temperatures in excess of 1700 degrees C. As magma (in-game) is between 1300-1400 deg C, it shouldn't cause diamonds to become graphite, and thus they shouldn't burn. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:00, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:The thing that really gets to me is the adamantine. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 18:22, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Question ==<br />
I'm still new to DF, and I'm wondering if there's any strategy I should be following to try to find gem stone. Currently I just dig long thin tunnels semi-randomly in the hopes of hitting something. Are there certain types of rock where gems are more likely? I have a dwarf in a mood who wants rough gems, but I can't find any around. --[[User:Emeraldemon|Emeraldemon]] 18:07, 25 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Use [[exploratory mining]] and hope you hit something. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 19:07, 25 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yes, read the gem listing for the type of stone it's found in. And, as suggested, read [[exploratory mining]].<br />
<br />
By the way - "sortable" listings ROCK!<br />
<br />
== "cut glass" ==<br />
<br />
Is the main use of cut glass to encrust items?<font face="FixedSys" color="#00FFFF">[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]]</font>[[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 11:52, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The main use of cut glass is to train up your gem cutters.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:18, 2 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Merged all tables into one and added 'Rarity' column ==<br />
<br />
As I wanted my first thing on this wiki to be something that isn't a change of the raw information, so I decided to do something organisational based.<br/><br />
I wanted to arrange them all by value. I hope this new arrangement is OK with everyone. [[User:Deco|Deco]] 15:10, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:[[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#B|B]] is for Bold - nice work! <br />
:Is there a way to use an invisible tag to sort the "Rarity" column ''by rarity'', and not alphabetically? Currently, clicking that sorting yields a purely alphabetic result:<br />
::*'''O'''rnamental<br />
::*'''P'''recious<br />
::*'''R'''are<br />
::*'''S'''emi-Precious<br />
:Not as useful as it might be. If we could somehow bump Semi-P up to live between O & P, that would be better yet imo. Invisible would be better than not, but even numerical values (or Roman Numerals??) might be better for organization. Meh, still a huge improvement, even without.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:06, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stones being crafted? ==<br />
<br />
One of my dwarves recently (apparently) carved a Banded Agate into a stone idol and a Bloodstone into a bracelet without a mood or any sort of special instruction... the game files don't seem to say anything unusual about the gems, that I can see... does this just happen sometimes? Are my dwarves going blind? Has anyone else ever experienced this? [[User:Dorque|Dorque]] 01:41, 14 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Higher level gem cutters ==<br />
<br />
Do higher level gem cutters really make more large gems? That seems rather counterintuitive. It would make more sense for higher level gem cutters to just make gems faster and have higher quality modifiers for large gems with the chance of creating a large gem being the same, regardless of level. I'll test this out once my gem cutter reaches legendary. --[[User:Overspeculated|Overspeculated]] 16:45, 2 November 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Gauntlets&diff=56801Gauntlets2009-11-02T17:16:02Z<p>Zchris13: double redirect fix</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[Armor piece]]</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Gauntlets&diff=56800Gauntlets2009-11-02T17:15:42Z<p>Zchris13: Redirected page to Armor peice</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[Armor peice]]</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Colour&diff=5548840d Talk:Colour2009-10-19T16:52:24Z<p>Zchris13: Created page with 'Pretty funny comment, buddy. Real funny.--~~~~'</p>
<hr />
<div>Pretty funny comment, buddy. Real funny.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:52, 19 October 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:River&diff=5519640d Talk:River2009-10-16T01:07:42Z<p>Zchris13: /* River Sinks */</p>
<hr />
<div>I think the image should be edited... the light blue rivers are streams, not brooks. Brooks are actually invisible on the region map, only visible on local. Only a minor issue though, but it can cause confusion. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 16:49, 16 November 2007 (EST)<br />
===River Mechanics===<br />
I want to clean up the "other facts" section an make it a little more organized. I recently dammed a river to build the entrance to my fortress in the middle of the river, and discovered several things that the article didn't quite explain (I updated the language to clarify it, but it's still a little disorganized.)<br />
Here are the important things:<br />
*River source tiles function essentially like aquifer tiles. Further experimentation should try to see if they have a greater refill rate or not.<br />
*Also like aquifer tiles, river source tiles cannot provide enough pressure to rise above the level they are on.<br />
*A river, like an aquifer, can absorb an unlimited amount of water.<br />
These three facts taken together lead to a significant exploit. If you build a solid wall of pumps pumping against the current, the river can actually be drained back into itself. I did this with a river in a sunken channel, so water draining off to the sides wasn't an issue, but the water drained back into the river within 6 tiles (on a 20 tile wide river.) It therefore follows that very short walls on both sides of the river could easily be built to contain the water until it drains back in on another map.<br />
If you don't want to use this exploit, it takes a little more work, but you can use the same basic structure to divert the river into an aquifer if you have one.[[User:FlyingBishop|FlyingBishop]] 22:44, 15 October 2009 (UTC) <br />
<br />
===2967067655===<br />
<br />
The "cave river" in seed 2967067655 is a short segment enclosed in solid rock, that comes from nowhere and "falls away" into open space at both ends - open space that doesn't extend to the level below. Is this typical of 0.27.169.33? If so, I'll have to put all my cave river plans off to a future version. [[User:Kidinnu|Kidinnu]] 09:54, 14 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:That sounds very strange. The cave rivers I've seen are sourced from a "mysterious area" and usually either continue off the map or fall off the bottom. They also tend to go through several lowerings of their elevation. Are you sure you fully explored it? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:03, 14 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
I don't know where this should be mentioned, but there is a huge difference on my machine between FPS on maps with brooks and maps with rivers. I've got a 3.4ghz and 2 gig ram, and my FPS on a map with a river drops to 15-20 right off the bat, where it stays in the high 50's until 30-40 dwarves with only a brook. -- unsigned, but written by Gotthard, according to page history.<br />
<br />
I added a bit about temporarily draining and permanently damming rivers and linked to a movie I recorded of doing just that. I think there are ways that would be easier on the dwarves and less micromanagey - one way, perhaps, may be to blast a 3-wide section of the river floor, instead of a 1-wide one, and then build floors in the middle column, and then build floodgates on top of those - that should keep the pesky backflow (which made installing the floodgates so arduous) from interfering with the damming. --[[User:SL|SL]] 00:28, 30 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
===="Cave river"?====<br />
Is there anywhere in the game that these are called "cave rivers"? Or is this purely from this discussion?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:33, 30 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Draining brooks ==<br />
<br />
I made following experiment: <br />
<br />
*1. Built a bridge over brook, the brook flowed from left to right<br />
*2. Built walls for the bridge<br />
*3. channeled under right wall<br />
*4. I then removed floors between walls of the bridge so that walls would fall in the brook<br />
<br />
Purpose of this experiment was to drain the river. I made two walls to see what happens when I drop wall on the brook tile, and when I drop walls on brook tile that has been dug out. I was expecting to see my left wall intact on the brook, like if I had built the wall right on top of brook tile. And to see my right wall intact at the bottom of the brook where I had channeled out the brook. <br />
<br />
Setting, before removing any parts of the bridge. <br />
{| style="border-spacing: 0"<br />
|-<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|Z|#000|#FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|-|#000|#FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|1|#000|fff}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|Z|#000|#FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|0|#000|fff}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|Z|#000|#FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|1|#000|fff}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{000}}<br />
|{{000}}<br />
|{{000}}<br />
|{{000}}<br />
|{{000}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|&#x25B2;|#888|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#000}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|{{RT|&#x25BC;|#888|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{888}}<br />
|{{888}}<br />
|{{888}}<br />
|{{888}}<br />
|{{888}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
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|{{RT|.|#0f0|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#000}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|{{RT|+|#888|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|≈|#0ff|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|≈|#0ff|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|≈|#0ff|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|~|#fff|#000}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|{{888}}<br />
|{{RT|+|#888|#000}}<br />
|{{888}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|≈|#fff|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|≈|#0ff|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|~|#0ff|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|≈|#0ff|#000}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|{{888}}<br />
|{{RT|+|#888|#000}}<br />
|{{888}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|≈|#0ff|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|≈|#0ff|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|≈|#0ff|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|≈|#0ff|#000}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|{{888}}<br />
|{{RT|+|#888|#000}}<br />
|{{888}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|≈|#0ff|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|~|#0ff|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|≈|#0ff|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|7|#00f|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|≈|#0ff|#000}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|{{888}}<br />
|{{RT|+|#888|#000}}<br />
|{{888}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{888}}<br />
|{{888}}<br />
|{{888}}<br />
|{{888}}<br />
|{{888}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#000}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|{{RT|+|#888|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|-<br />
|{{000}}<br />
|{{000}}<br />
|{{000}}<br />
|{{000}}<br />
|{{000}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|&#x25B2;|#888|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#000}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{FFF}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|{{RT|&#x25BC;|#888|#000}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|{{RT|.|#0f0|#fff}}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Both walls fell to the bottom of brook and fell apart into blocks I had used to build the walls. This wasn't such a terrible surprise to me. What was a surprise was that the walls which had fell through walkable brook tiles had "broken" the brook. The game now seems to handle those tiles like they were ending the brook. Water pours in from both ends and simply disappears.<br />
<br />
Basically this could be used to create more tiles for water to pour out of map...<br />
<br />
--[[User:Athan|Athan]] 13:17, 15 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Unfound Underwater River ==<br />
<br />
on my old fortress i used to have alot of 'Deceased' creatures like snakemen and lizardmen popping up on the Creatures Menu. Why are they popping up when i can't see the underground river? <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]]</small><br />
<br />
:It's an exploit (I think), wait a season then zoom to a body part of these dead creatures and dig to that location to uncover it. <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:LrZeph|LrZeph]]</small><br />
<br />
== Specific Location ==<br />
<br />
It seems like cave rivers (the tiles that actually have water) are only found 1 z-level below the base of a mountain. Is this true? If it is it might be helpful to add that to the page... <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Xonara|Xonara]]</small><br />
<br />
:Doesn't look like it. My cave river is 19 z-levels above "ground zero".--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:14, 25 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
::Oh OK, thanks. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 03:56, 25 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== River Source tiles ==<br />
<br />
On my map a four tile wide river starts at the north edge of the map, winds around then branches into about six one tile wide fingers. The flow is from the fingers out to the north edge. At the tip of each finger is a tile marked "River Source". Some of these are above ground and some are just inside the mountain, one z-level from the surface.<br><br />
The source looks something like this, I've shortend it a bit, with the water flowing up.<br />
RRRR R River<br />
RRRR S River Source<br />
RRRR<br />
RRRRR<br />
RRRRRR<br />
RRRRRRRR<br />
RRRRRRRRRR<br />
RR RRRRRRRRR<br />
RR RR RRRRRRRR<br />
RR RR RRRRRR<br />
RR RR RRR RRR<br />
RRR RRR RR RRR<br />
R R R R R R RRR<br />
R S R R S S RRRS<br />
S S R<br />
S<br />
I haven't seen mention of these River Source tiles before. I mention it because the article says "rivers presumably contain an unlimited amount of water and cannot be drained." Well, now we have a source for all that water. I'm going to dam each of the river sources, should be easier to dam each of the single tile fingers then the river itself, gaining full control over the river. Then I can close off all but one to see what the rate of flow is. I count eight source tiles feeding my four tile wide river.<br><br />
--[[User:Schwern|Schwern]] 04:03, 14 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Depends on how much drain you put on the system. Merely falling off the map edge a few dozen tiles away is probably something that a single water source tile can handle. River source tiles do not appear under that name but are on all maps with a river: a row at the side of the map from which the water flows. They also work a lot like aquifer tiles. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:50, 14 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== River Sinks ==<br />
I'd like to redirect my river out a different side of the map... Since it's on a plateau I can easily redirect it to the valley on one edge of a map, but is it confirmed that water reaching the edge of the map will spread off of it? And, if so, how do I efficiently get that water right to the very edge, given that I can't channel (or, I assume build walls) on the last row at the edge of the map? Similarly, I assume I can't channel through the lowest level of the map to make my own chasm, right? Thanks! [[User:Freshyq314|Freshyq314]] 20:52, 28 January 2009 (EST)<br />
:It is possible to carve fortifications in the map edge. Do this after digging a new river bed, and voila. You directed the river.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:07, 16 October 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Armor&diff=5519540d Talk:Armor2009-10-16T01:02:52Z<p>Zchris13: /* Recent edits */ new section</p>
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<div>==Boots==<br />
Corrected the matter with low and high boots. If you look at the raws you can see that the armor level of both boot types are the same and thus they can both be used as chain and plate armor. My games have proved this to me. Only real difference between the two boot types is that the high boot is heavier and protects more of the body than just the feet. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 05:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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==clothes layers==<br />
Does anyone know the rules of where you can wear each piece of armor? For example, can you wear a high boot and leggings? or only low boots with leggings? Do you need to make two boots? --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 20:30, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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: You can wear high boots with leggings. Leggings and high boots have different layers. --[[User:JT|JT]] 17:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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On a similar note, what's the difference between steel leggings and steel greaves? I would've thought leggings would cover below the knee as well. Do I need both to provide maximum Xtreme protection? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:17, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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: As far as I can tell, greaves are the Plate class upgrade to leggings, which are Chain class lower body armor. Unlike upper body armor however, dwarves don't appear to be able to wear both leggings and greaves at once and will drop their leggings in favour of a set of greaves when set to Plate armor. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 14:03, 25 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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==Protection values==<br />
I would like to know if it's possible to find out the various protection values of different types of armor. For example, we know the material and quality modifiers for armor, but not, say, how much better plate mail protects you than chain. Or whether greaves or high boots offer more coverage.<br />
I ask because I'm wondering if, with high quality modifiers, [[adamantine]] ''clothing'' is viable protection for those who aren't wearing armor. Certainly, it'd make a good halfway measure for those who can't do magma smelting yet, but ''can'' get a Craftsdwarf's Workshop, Loom, and Clothesmaker's Workshop set up to extract the threads, weave them, and make clothes. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:48, 13 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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==Soldier==<br />
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I think some of this article, specifically that stuff in the Using armor section, should be moved over to an article more dedicated to soldier preferences. As it is, it's describing everything about arming civilians with weapons instead of simply talking about armoring civilians; that content seems more appropriate for an article about soldiers or the hunting article. --[[User:JT|JT]] 17:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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==Verified==<br />
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I can verify that when setting dwarves to chain, they wear gauntlets --[[User:Nog|Nog]] 16:21, 12 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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== Leather Armor re: Caps and Helms ==<br />
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A soldier set to leather armor can wear leather helms, not just caps, and they'll wear a cap at the same time underneath (at least, if it's silk. I haven't confirmed yet if a soldier will wear a leather cap + a leather helm; doesn't really matter). This is a good thing because helms (according to the old wiki) have higher Block. They're heavier too but this shouldn't be a problem. --[[User:Stromko|Stromko]] 19:57:15 (PST), January 06 2007<br />
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:In the old versions, the materials of the armor pieces were irrelevant, regardless of the fact that the lowest armor level is called "leather". Leather and chain wearers would wear any kind of legging or boot, and a plate wearer would wear even a pig tail helm, if they happened to come across one, showing no preference for better material types or quality. Has this changed, or does the table in this article contain some wrong assumptions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:42, 7 January 2008 (EST)<br />
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::I seem to recall that 'light' materials like cloth, shell, and bone effectively 'downgraded' armor by one level, weighed half as much, and were 50% of the maximum effectiveness per their type. However! I can see right now in my current fortress a steel cap is 78 pounds and a cave spider silk cap is 13 pounds. This shows not all old information is correct. <br />
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Furthermore, bone and shell doesn't become a 'lighter' class. Shell Gauntlets require Chain or above to be assigned, and Turtle Bone Greaves go un-used until a dwarf is set to Plate.<br />
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However, I /can/ confirm from this very fortress I'm looking at right now, that dwarves assigned to leather went to pick up and wear Leather Helms. Unless, that is, they already have metal Caps. I'm looking at a marksdwarf right now assigned to wear Leather who has a Steel Cap, a pig tail hood (they all have hoods), and no helm. Everybody else has a leather helm.<br />
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I should note my fortress has no metal helms lying around, nor does it have spare metal caps, so I'm unable to verify that dwarves set to Leather wouldn't wear metal Helms or preferentially choose caps (they'd probably choose /either/ Metal Caps or Leather Helms if given a choice). However, I'm pretty sure they would not. Therefore, it is my understanding that they make a distinction between different material types. --[[User:Stromko|Stromko]] 03:22 (PST), January 07 2007<br />
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== Shields and Bucklers ==<br />
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Hmm it states here that dwarves can wear BOTH shields and bucklers, however in soldiering screen you can select EITHER shield OR buckler, but NOT both. Does this part of article apply to Adv. mode only? Could someone verify, please? --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 18:21, 24 February 2008 (EST)<br />
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I would guess the trick is to tell them to use bucklers first, waiting til they pick one up, then telling them to use shields, at which point they'll pick up a shield without dropping the buckler first. Like how you can get dwarves to wear a leather armour, chain mail, and plate on top all at the same time if you set them to leather, then chain, then plate. [[User:Furiousfish|Furiousfish]] 20:54, 6 March 2008 (EST)<br />
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Has anyone ever determined whether the material of the shield has any effect? (i.e. is a leather shield as effective as a steel shield?) --[[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 13:33, 11 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I have to admit it's not 100% clear (to me at least) how shields work - whether they simply determine "hit/no hit", or add a "damage block" number to reduce damage if/when they do block an attack. If the latter, it's is a central concept of armor. See [[Shield#Material]]. However, --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:51, 11 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Natural Selection ==<br />
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Being a bit of a nooblet, and not having much war in any of my fortresses, I'm confused as to how armor selection works. <br />
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Would I be correct if I said "Setting a dwarf to wear Plate armor will cause him to grab plate whenever and wherever possible, but substitute leather, chain, or bone wherever no plate is available. So, for example, if my metalsmiths never make helms, but my leatherworker has caps and helms galore, they'll wear plate armor and a leather helm. Right? If so, this should probably be mentioned. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 19:24, 28 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:I've found that a dwarf set to wear plate will grab the best available armor. More puzzling is that they will sometimes stack armor; IE dwarves wearing plate mail and chain mail at the same time. However, I never keep a stock of leather armor, so I wouldn't know if it can be used in conjunction with metal armor.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 22:29 21 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
::The dwarves seem to be notorious for pulling on a full suit of armour ie chain-then-plate, there's a reason a fort I made (whose metal industry relies on eg [[coal]] and [[lignite]]) is making all chain-mail, crossbows and shields to defend against gobbo raids ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 09:13, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
Just wanted to point out that leather armor and plate can't be put on together.<br />
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== Gloves ==<br />
My military is set to wear Leather armor, but they don't take leather gloves. High boots, leggings, armor and helmets are used OK. Is the article data incorrect?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:51, 15 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
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Some equipment is unavaliable for dwarf use because it is the incorrect size. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:40, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
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My guess is that your dwarves are already wearing cloth gloves. This is considered clothing level armor, the same level as leather gloves. They see no reason to switch armor when the leather gloves provide the same "level of protection." I think your best bet would be to dump their cloth gloves, if you're that worried about them. You can always reclaim them later. --[[User:PrettyGrizzly|PrettyGrizzly]] 11:00, 4 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Artifacts ==<br />
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This has an excellent table defining the bonuses for quality/materials, but completely excludes artifact modifiers. I would assume that these would always be the best, regardless, of material, but I just found myself with a rhesus macaque leather shield and don't know if I should use it in place of, oh, I don't know, a more ''steel'' one.<br />
:Currently, the exact modifier for artifact quality seems to be unknown. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 18:27, 30 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Fort-mode equipment quirks==<br />
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The edit I just made was prompted by seeing a dwarf wearing ''twelve'' cloaks, and remembering the "cannot wear cloaks" phrase mentioned in the pre-edit version of the bit below the giant table. I tried to reconcile the two statements that were already there, particularly in light of said cloak-happy dwarf. However, there's also one thing I'm wondering about: is the number of equipped items partially determined by what order they're put on in fortress mode? I ''think'' it is, but am not sure, so I decided not to include that. If it's the case, however, I think it'd be worth mentioning along with the cloaks part (even in the old version of the page, should somebody decide to revert my edit or something). --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 20:23, 6 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Dungeon masters wear nothing but 12 colors of cloaks and mittens. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 13:07, 23 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Over Under Armor Cover ==<br />
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Besides sounding like a Daft Punk chorus, these are four LAYER values. I know what Over and Under do with respect to each other: You can't wear Under on top of Over. Do the others follow the same pattern, are they all ordered? Is there some more mysterious effect for "Cover" and "Armor"? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 01:04, 27 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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== Decorating Armor ==<br />
Wasn't sure whether to ask this here or under gem setter - is it not possible to get a gem setter to decorate armor? I know leather armor can receive images and bone/shell decorations (and presumably the bone/shell applies to metal as well), I can't fathom why you can't put gems on suits of armor given that.... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:44, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:AFAIK no, it isn't possible to decorate armor or weapons. That's one of the more frequently requested additions on the forums.[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:33, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
::It is, however, possible to acquire armor already decorated with gems via trade with a caravan. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:09, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:::Said armor would unlikely to be masterwork, nor with masterwork decorations. Nor would it be made of adamantine. I'm afraid its no real supplement. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:35, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Oh, sure, if you want to, like, *survive*. Instead of look pretty. Where are your priorities? :) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:50, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:::::I want to survive *and* look pretty. When faced with a choice of two appealing options, the correct choice is obviously 'yes'. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:01, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
::::::I suppose you have a point. Oh, well, back to [[Decoration|Stud with platinum]]. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 19:25, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
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== Markdwarves only work with bucklers?!?! ==<br />
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I guess that makes sense since historically, bucklers were made to strap to the forearm and allow archers to use their bows...<br />
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Anyway, it seems my markdwarves don't like it when I make them use a shield. They stop carrying ammunition and won't practice shooting when off duty.<br />
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Is this the reason or is something else going on? Anyway, if it is indeed the case that markdwarves don't work with shields, it deserves mention, right?<br />
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 13:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's unclear, for this reason: ThreeToe has stated, point blank, that '''"The two handed code is broken right now... the crossbow is always two handed."''' So it's unclear if a marksdwarf ever actually uses a shield or buckler if they're holding a crossbow - they might be using it 2 handed in melee as well (and I more than suspect they are). <br />
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:The way you suspect it to work is, I'd guess, the way it's ''supposed'' to work... whether that has anything to do with the way it ''does'' work is another guess.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 14:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:I've found that the best way is not to assign a buckler/shield at all. They then will use the free hand to carry practice bolts while off duty, while keeping metal bolts in the quiver for use at a moments notice. I suppose if the dwarf was done training, then you could assign a buckler.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 19:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== ARMOR ARTICLE SPLIT/COMBINING?==<br />
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[[Leather Armor]], should have it's own page. It is an item, like platemail.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:22, 23 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:I've been thinking about the "armour" category in general - every different item does not need its very own page. What is there to say about "leather armour" (the item, not the suit)? Look at [[low boot]], or [[leggings]] vs. [[greaves]] - waste of time to have to go to a diff page for each, and it currently takes ''how many'' to get a full picture of "armour"? Isn't this the type of thing that can be all combined into one more useful page?<br />
::*Armor - general <br />
::*Suits of Armor - the 5 basic parts<br />
:::*of leather<br />
:::*of chain<br />
:::*of plate<br />
:*layering<br />
:*known quirks and bugs<br />
:Maybe one page with all pieces, and then another (this) with all the misc information.[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::I'm thinking of something more along the lines of a page for the different sets, combining the different separate pages for each item of armor.<br />
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:::There is a discussion about this page on a user talk page. ''Please discuss the Armor page here.'' And please state any problems or conflicts with the Armor page, so they can be evaluated and discussed.<br />
:::Personally, I have few problems with the page. But then I pretty much know everything the page states, and while I like the comprehensive, factual style of the page it may not be the best style for educating new players. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 14:12, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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(DELETED COMMENTS ON OVER-ENTHUSIASM. Non-relevant now. We move forward.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Improving presentation of "Armor" ===<br />
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I think the larger point (echoed from posts above) is that, as is, the article makes sense to those who understand it - but isn't optimized for those who don't. There are 3 general problems that I perceive with the articles (plural) as they stand, and those same 3 areas I'd like to see addressed:<br />
:* Scattered information - too many stub articles about individual armour pieces or one tiny facet of "armour".<br />
:* No clean, unified "This all you need (to know) for leather armor", "This what you need (to know) for chain armor" (sub)articles.<br />
:* This article is already borderline too long. Info is getting lost, readers are getting boggled - need a concept split between basic vs. advanced (or something sim). There are 11 sections, w/ some hefty sub-sections - that's too many by half.<br />
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(And I think we have to concede that answering the rather arcane question of ''"How does it work, EXACTLY?"'' will be an ongoing process, I'm afraid.)<br />
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Spotting problems is easy and cheap - solving them is the tough part. A user wants "all" relevant information in front of them, and not much more - and that'll be diff for each user. But I think we can take a stab at a generally applicable organization. I'd suggest this (as a starting point for this process, ~if~ it's agreed it needs to be addressed) -<br />
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2 articles; #1 deals w/ armor at face value for those not interested in the details (what each piece is, how they fit together into suits, how a dwarf puts them on, what craft/shop builds what), and #2 deals with the numbers for the number crunchers and optimizers (repetition of quality/material tables, damblock numbers, and all that issue.) For those Players who are comfortable in the simple (and correct) assumption that chain armour is "better" than leather, the first page gives them all they need to know (perhaps w/ hints & links beyond). For those who need more (a little or a lot), they go to the second page, where they'll find the Protection and Weight tables, and all the details that are teased slowly from the tags and RAW's.<br />
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Off the top of my head, I'd call the first page "Armor Guide" (fitting into Category: Guide) - all current "armor" articles would redirect to that one, at least. The second (advanced) article might be titled something like "Armor details" or "Armor values" or "Armor explained", and have all the stuff that boggles the unprepared. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I think the creation of armor belongs somewhere else in the wiki. The types of armor should be defined first, with all the exceptions and rules explained in a single article. Another article on the way the pieces layer on top of each other, and a final section of the second article for the defense bonuses of each item and the coverage, and all the other good and juicy technical things.<br />The current layout is two biased towards traditional thinking, and is like trying to push the triangle block into the circle hole in those toys for tykes. It just doesn't fit the technicality that is dwarf fortress.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:53, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I agree re "making armor" - under "Armorsmith" seems reasonable. "Layering" is part of wearing, if an advanced part and one that is often overlooked ''(possibly because that article is lost among so much other bandwidth.)'' I think (depending on final size of the article, and number of sub-sections), that could be put at the bottom of the same page as definitions/how to use, so it's not separate from "suits", but works hand in hand with that info. <br />That would give us a format that looks ''something'' like...<br />
:*Article #1: Armor Guide:<br />
::*Individual Pieces - (copied & improved from the various stub articles, which all then become redirects)<br />
::**the 3 (4?) Levels (lthr, chain, plate - and clothing)<br />
::*Using Armor - basic "how to" (not "advice" or strategies, unless universal warnings)<br />
:::*Layering<br />
::*Shields & Bucklers<br />
::*"Misc" ("oddities") - sizes, wrestling, etc.<br />
:::(deleted/redirected: "Making Armor" & "requirements" -> Armorsmith; possibly dump value table & quality table - redundant)<br />
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:*Article #2: "Armor Analysis" - number cruncher's bible ''(needs a better name)''<br />
::*damblock/protection values<br />
::*Chart showing Analysis of diff types/combo's<br />
::*weight explanation<br />
::*size/permit explanation<br />
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:::That puts everything the new/intermediate player needs to know about armour on 1 page, and all the "behind the scenes data" on another. Easy conceptual split.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Plate over chainmail changed? ==<br />
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I cannot get my dwarves to wear plate over chainmail. If I order them to wear chainmail, they wear it, including both a cap and a helm. If I order them to wear plate, they do indeed take off the chainmail first. I think this has been fixed, so I'm putting the appropriate 'verify' tags on the article. I also wonder if the helm-over-cap was always intended, rather than a glitch caused by stepping through armour levels. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 06:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:This has always been treated as a feature, not a bug, but whatever. It is called "layering armor". Dwarfs are also able to wear chain over leather, but not a "lighter" armor over a heavier one. I just tried it, and it works fine - chain over leather, plate over chain, no problem. (Oddly, they won't wear plate mail over leather armor, but such a step-up will cause the cap/helm layering.) vanilla 40d.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::It's a little more complicated. The '''size and permit''' section of the article explains armor layering. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:22, 1 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::Well, that's very strange, then. I've got steel chainmail and steel plate mail, and per above, if I go nothing &rarr; chain &rarr; plate (giving them time to put everything on at each step), they put almost everything on at the "chain" stage (including both a steel cap and steel helm), and then promptly ditch their chainmail in favour of plate at the "plate" stage. Am I misunderstanding this? &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 17:36, 1 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::::"Chain" and "Plate" level armours (the full suits) both include boots, gauntlets, helmet and possibly a steel cap underneath. Chain leggings would get ditched in favour of greaves, but the torso piece, the "chain armour", should still be seen in inventory along with "plate armour".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::::Unless of course, we are totally wrong. Which is entirely possible.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Okay, so I'm still trying this, and while I've gotten two dwarves to wear both cap + helm and chainmail + platemail, I can't seem to get a third one to do it. I can get the cap + helm by forbidding leather helms and going leather, so he wears a steel cap. Then, I go chain, so he wears a steel helm and a steel chainmail. Then I go plate, and he runs to put the plate on, but drops the chainmail on the spot (in the stockpile) when he puts on the plate. Am I doing something wrong here? &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 11:24, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::What else is the dwarf wearing? Is the third dwarf wearing different 'clothing' than the other two? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:17, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::One of the successful ones is wearing two pig tail dresses (one worn), trousers, and a sock. One of the unsuccessful ones is wearing two leather robes and trousers (all worn). Just retried that one, and still no go. I assume the robes are the problem, but there's apparently no way to get them gone. Guess I have to wait for them to wear out and fall off. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 22:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::::2 robes give a combined size of 40. Adding chainmail bumps that to 55. The permit of plate is 50, so you definitely cant wear plate over that. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:29, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::::Right, okay, so I have to wait for the dwarf to ditch the robes on his own (adding to the mess of discarded clothes already lying around the fort). Ah well. Thanks. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 01:41, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::Remember that all clothes are "armour", so 2 robes is still something. Turns out each robe is about 1/4 of leather - I'd rather have leather ''and'' a robe, but...--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:59, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::3 words: ten adamantine hoods. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:42, 8 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Example/consider shell..? ==<br />
So if i read this right a masterful shell item gives the same protection as a no quality iron item? Thus i might consider using it in early game or in a tough game with no iron/steel..not even copper - or if my armorsmith is not yet able to produce higher qualities, but my carver is?<br />
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how to factor in weight? -is encumbrance only making dwarves slower or also fight worse?<br />
:Not sure about %'s, but over-encumbrance will make a dwarf move slower, so less actions/second, so less combat - in theory. (See [[Speed]] and subsection on [[Encumbrance]].) But at 50% for material x 2.0 for quality for masterful shell, vs 100% for material x 1.0 for quality for iron - yes, identical in protection. If you gained a Legendary bone carver, have no skilled armorsmith, and/or a lot more bone and shell than iron, that's a valid option until you can solve that lack.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:41, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Chain vrs. Plate ==<br />
So maybe i straight overread that, but - we do know the protection of bone and leather as 50% vrs. Steel 133. Masterful armor is what to go for. Leather armor is limited by its material. <br />
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But what really is the reason to go for chain instead of plate? do we have numbers? weight, sure, but not really. scarcity of steel etc.? what do greaves that leggins do not? --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 01:44, 21 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:There's no long term reason, but in the beginning year or two I use chain as steel plate is a bit heavy, not to mention preparing for an early ambush always leaves a tight supply of steel. But really there's so many things in DF that are just there for flavor it's best not to dwell on it. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 08:03, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Buckler vrs. training? ==<br />
Could it be that a marksdwarf who wears a buckler will not train at an archery range, as he doesn't have a spare hand for bolts? --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 15:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:I have never seen bucklers or shields keep marksdwarves from training at the archery range. Make sure there's wooden or bone bolts to train with, and make sure he isn't holding something he isn't supposed to (like somebody's pants). --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 17:29, 11 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Equipping Leather "Clothing" / Armor ==<br />
Does anyone know if there's any way to keep dwarves in leather after they've been deactivated from the military? Trying to figure out if I can keep my [[Cross-training#Army_corps_of_engineers]] in leather leggings, boots, etc, at the very least. -- [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 22:09, 20 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Yes and no, but basically "no". Just like dwarves won't carry an axe unless they're assigned woodcutting, or a pick unless they're assigned mining (regardless if there's any currently designated on the map), they won't wear ''any'' armour unless there's something dangerous to do. Tho' this usually means military, the one work-around is to enable the [[hunting]] labour, and then they'll armor up and carry their designated weapon, ready to go hunting. The obvious problem is that they'll then go out hunting. The time you can get away with this is when the map has no huntable creatures on it - older fortresses (or ones that have been aggressively hunted out) are usually the only times you'll have this happy situation.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:32, 21 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Recent edits ==<br />
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Sick editing, Albedo. I dig this page.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:02, 16 October 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Adventurer_mode&diff=5514040d:Adventurer mode2009-10-15T16:38:47Z<p>Zchris13: wolf. Dry comment on throats.</p>
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<div>In '''adventurer mode''', you pick a race ([[dwarf]], [[human]], or [[elf]]) and start out in either a [[Site|town]] of your race or in a previous [[fortress]] you played on. You can receive [[quest]]s, venture into the wilderness to find [[caves]], abandoned towers and other [[Site|villages]]. You can even visit your old [[Fortress|fortresses]] and find whatever riches were left to be guarded by the [[creatures]] that sealed the fate of your [[fortress]].<br />
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The user interface differs somewhat from [[fortress mode]]; you may want to refer to the [[Adventure Mode quick reference|quick reference]] guide, or examine the detailed [[controls]] page. [[Site map]] may also prove useful.<br />
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== Your first adventure ==<br />
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=== Picking a race ===<br />
When it comes to picking a race, there is difference in [[skills]]. [[Dwarves]] cannot wear [[human]] sized [[armor]], and are somewhat limited in the [[weapons]] they can wield due to their size. [[Elves]] have a slightly different set of [[skills]]. [[Humans]] are generally fairly well-balanced, and are the easiest to acquire quests from. Each race fares differently in combat; you may wish to look at the races' pages for the finer details.<br />
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=== Choosing skills ===<br />
Basically, if you want to start with a [[weapon]], you need to avoid having the most points spent in unarmored/[[wrestling]]. If you, for example, choose to start out with most points in [[swordsman]], you will start out with a [[sword]]. When you have chosen your preferred set of [[skills]], you can press {{key|Enter}} to embark. The higher the [[skills]] in [[weapons]]/[[armor]] determine the quality of the equipment you start out with.<br />
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All the [[skills]] you see CAN be improved through use in game, so don’t worry about spreading them out completely evenly. In general, pick the [[skills]] you think you’re going to use. The [[skills]] are pretty self explanatory but its recommended that you put at least a few points into [[shield]] / [[armor]] and into a type of weapon. Be warned that [[weapon]] [[skills]] generally take a while to level up, so placing a good deal of points into a singe weapon may be to your advantage. Also keep in mind that your skills determine what kind of equipment you have in the beginning, ie high sword skill means you’ll start with a sword. For information on the weapons and the other aspects of combat, please check the combat section. It might also be a good idea to use a point or two for swiming, otherwise you might end up drowning in a puddle.<br />
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=== Setting out ===<br />
If you chose human, you will start out inside the Mead hall. You will see the Mayor (purple) as well as the occasional townsperson. Press {{key|k}} and talk to the Mayor. Press 'services' for a [[quest]]. You can talk to the Citizens and recruit them to your party for some additional combat aid if they feel like it (note, people with no combat skills are unlikely to follow you, and the major and town guards never will.) If you choose dwarf, you start out in a region just outside the entrance to a given fortress. There is a [[mayor]] or the [[king]] himself inside the fortress.<br />
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Be sure to read the [[Adventure Mode quick reference]] or use the help files for more information on the commands in Adventure mode.<br />
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=== Survival ===<br />
Congratulations, you’ve created a character and are now about to embark on your fantastic adventure! For now, lets focus on the bare bones of staying alive shall we? First things first, you need food and water. If you’re a human you start with some, but barring that you may need to find a waterskin. These can be bought in human towns, specifically at the shop. DO NOT STEAL THESE OR ANYTHING ELSE. Do not pick anything up and walk outside the store before you trade for it. Why? Because you are currently weak and your neck is currently arrow bait. After getting the water skin, simply find a water source and hit (Shift+I) to interact with the object. Press the letter of the Water skin and you should be able to fill it from the water source. After it’s full press (e)to open the Eat menu and select the water. Food can be acquired from stores eaten in the same way. Beware, you won't be able to swim if you are hungry, thirsty or if you haven't slept for a day or two. If you get drowsy, just find a bed in a city or just find a good place to sleep. Avoid sleeping in an hostile place, if you don't want to have a bit too much fun.<br />
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Now that you know how to work your mouth we can move on to miscellaneous tips for survival. Firstly, you are very tasty and chances are (unless you’re an elf) the wildlife will soon be attempting to eat your face. A bear or cougar isn’t too much of a problem because there’s only one, the real problem will be wolf packs. <br />
A single wolf is easy to dispatch, but a dozen or so can prove very problematic indeed. Beware large packs until you’ve gained a little experience. Secondly, do not piss off the towns folk, as they tend to have guards. Lastly, beware of taking quests or attempting things before you’re ready, as you will more than likely have tons of [[fun]]<br />
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=== Civilization? ===<br />
Elves live out in the forest, literally. Although defined to specific regions on the map, they have no structural wealth whatsoever. Some trees are named.<br />
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Humans live in towns comprised of buildings and often a paved road. Human villages are highly modular. The small 5x5 buildings are citizen houses and are marked with an "H" on the town auto-map. Medium buildings are stores, marked with a symbol that indicates what they sell - food, weapons, clothing, and two kinds of trinkets (incidentally, armor and clothing is sold in the same building). As of the current version, you start in the mead hall which is marked with an "M" on the automap. There are one or two apartment buildings buildings which are two stories, with six rooms a story; they are also marked with an "H." There are two really large buildings - the "T"emple and the a fort-like building that is marked with "K." Temples tend to have two or three levels, and a pool of water, while the "K" buildings are three or four floors high and are almost entirely empty (they will occationally contain random smatterings of clothing though, if you're looking for things to sell.)<br />
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Dwarves live underground. Their entrances are large square pits with stairs around the perimeter, and a row of leading down into the fortress halls at the bottom. The main halls are wide and have pillars near the walls, long and occasionally turn corners. Different levels in the fortress are marked by a row of ramps with two pillars on the side (walk towards the side of the ramp that has the pillars) and, although the number of floors in a fortress can vary, they are usually little and only become deep if the lay of the land above is variable. There are one 1-tile wide hallways, empty rooms, and scant Dwarves in these pre-fab fortresses. It's obvious the computer is playing a completely different game than you are in [[Fortress Mode]]!<br />
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Goblins live in [[obsidian]] towers, usually found built in twos, though they both don't necessarily have to be built up. One could be a "tower," one could be an over-glorified "basement." There is probably a temple nearby, completely similar to human temples. Goblin towers have tight 1-wide hallways, spacious and empty rooms, and strange hall extensions that end in remote cross-like dead-ends. Like dwarf fortresses, there is rarely anything in a Goblin tower asides from Goblins, and they have a strange tendency not to attack non-Goblin visitors. They seem to have lots of children.<br />
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You may come across what the map defines as a "Goblin" city that is actually populated by Humans or Dwarves living in or around the towers.<br />
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=== Trading ===<br />
In towns you can find merchants inside some [[buildings]]. Talk to them to trade with them. After buying an item, you must pick it up manually from somewhere in the shop. {{K|l}}ook around for an item without $ signs around it.<br />
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==== Selling ====<br />
You can also sell things to traders. Bones, corpses, body parts and rocks are not valuable, no matter how attached you are to a particularly aerodynamic kobold head. Small creatures discovered while {{k|L}}ooking Carefully may be worth a small amount of money. In order to sell or buy items, stand adjacent to the shopkeeper in his store, and {{k|k}}onverse with the shopkeeper. Select "Trade" and press {{k|enter}} to open the trade window.<br />
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Select each non-worthless item you wish to sell, and then set a price using the following format{{verify}}:<br />
* {{k|a}} asking for 9000☼<br />
* {{k|s}} +100☼<br />
* {{k|d}} +10☼<br />
* {{k|f}} +1☼<br />
* {{k|g}} reset to 0☼<br />
* {{k|h}} -1☼ (offering)<br />
* {{k|j}} -10☼<br />
* {{k|k}} -100☼<br />
* {{k|l}} offer 9000☼<br />
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The use of these keys may seem non-intuitive, and this is further complicated by the limit on your available offers by your current financial health.<br />
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Shopkeepers are used to adventurers with inflated ideas about the value of their goods, so it may be simplest to ask for 9000☼ for your goods, or offer 1☼ for theirs and suggest a {{k|t}}rade. The shopkeeper will counteroffer with the actual value of the goods, and will be quite delighted to accept a {{k|t}}rade at the price they've just quoted to you. You can then purchase things with your store credit. After the trade sessions, the balance of your coins will appear on a small table next to a chest.<br />
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[[Category:Adventurer mode]]<br />
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====Theft====<br />
You may also pick up the item before buying it, but you should never walk out of a shop carrying an unbought item, as that is theft. It is punishable by death if you are caught, and excommunication if you are not. On any occasion when you have stolen goods from a store, ie goods bounded by the $$ signs, the game requires you to exit the site ''and'' travel a considerable distance before allowing you to travel. This may make a getaway more difficult if your adventurer is not already faster than anyone else. This only applies to goods in stores; killing townsfolk and taking their personal things, including those of the shopkeep still only requires exiting the site. The moment you are out of sight, you will be able to warp out as usual. Theft and murder remain within entities; even depopulating one country and stealing all its things will not generate ill response in another country.<br />
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====Managing coins====<br />
Coins can and will encumber your adventurer, eventually reducing your speed. To reduce that effect you can try to exchange your copper and silver coins for gold ones. To do that you can purchase goods from a merchant to the sum of your copper coins, then sell them back. Check the merchant's chest to see how much gold and silver coins they have. You can delay the problem by selling your loot to many merchants, as they will try to pay you in higher denomination currency first.<br />
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A few goods are strictly superior to all forms of coinage as a store of value, most commonly giant cave spider silk items. A suitably sneaky (or powerful) adventurer can murder a few dwarves for such items for trade and sale for human goods. Giant cave spider silk is a non-renewable resource in a given world. Please harvest sustainably.<br />
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=== Equipping your adventurer === <br />
After acquiring [[armor]] from one source or another, you'll most likely want to equip it. To do this, first make sure it is in your possession--not on the ground. You can then {{key|w}}ear it, granted you don't already have too much on that equipment slot already. You can {{key|r}}emove or {{key|d}}rop inferior equipment as necessary.<br />
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[[Weapons]] and [[Armor#Shields and Bucklers|shields]] are handled differently. There is no explicit equipment command. Instead, they are automatically equipped when you either {{k|g}}et them from the ground or {{k|r}}emove them from your [[backpack]] - provided the hand that would wield them is free. So in order to change [[weapons]] or [[Armor#Shields and Bucklers|Shields]] you would need to {{k|p}}ut your equipped weapon into your [[backpack]] and then {{k|r}}emoving your new desired weapon. You do not need to drop weapons and equip new ones etc. Simply remember the {{k|r}}emove command and the {{k|p}}ut into container command.<br />
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It should be noted that the world of DF seems to have a lot of left handers, so do not be surprised if your character holds the weapon with the left hand and the [[Armor#Shields and Bucklers|shield]] with the right hand.<br />
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== Traveling the world ==<br />
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=== How-to ===<br />
You can walk around the whole world tile by tile if you wish, but given the size of the world, you might want to consider using another method. Pressing {{key|T}} will let see a very zoomed out map of the surrounding area. Moving about on this map is much faster, as well as it heals your adventurer, keeps him from starving, dehydrating, or getting tired. To exit this screen and explore the area you've reached, press {{k|>}}.<br />
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If there is more than one feature such as a [[Site|town]] or group of [[creatures]] on that map tile you will get to choose which one you want to arrive near.<br />
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Also while traveling on the world map, there is a chance that your adventurer can get randomly ambushed by enemies. When that happens, you must survive by either fighting them off or hide from them.<br />
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Jumping off [[Cliff|cliffs]] is not normally advisable; however, it is possible to do so by holding {{key|Alt}} while pressing the appropriate movement key. Jumping off [[Cliff|cliffs]], depending on how high you jumped, will most of the time cover your eyes in blood, which lessens visuals.<br />
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=== Finding a Quest ===<br />
At this present point Quests can only be taken from people of leadership in an organization.<br />
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Human Weapon Masters: No matter what time of the day, human weapon masters will be in the mead hall, where you appear. However, if it is late they will immediately head for their homes so you may need to intercept them before they reach the door. The human capitals are not very different from the normal towns; humans have no central leadership so each weapon master is only a local leader of their own town, even at the capital the weapon master only rules the capital itself and not the other towns. Ignore the keeps; unless you're playing with a mod like LL no leaders hang out in the Keeps.<br />
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High Priests: Humans and Goblins will often suggest you ask the High Priest for quests but in all my times of doing this all this will do is allow you to join their religion. If you want to join the religion, the High Priest, as long as it is a reasonable time of day, should be wandering around the temple. Worth a visit at least as Temples are often the most interesting parts of a town/dark fortress because there are so many different kinds.<br />
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Dwarven Mayors/Kings/Queens: Hit and miss finding them, you'll generally find them on the outside of the fort but sometimes they move around; some have been known to run out of the fort and became a migrant unable to give out quests. Both Mayors and <br />
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Kings/Queens can be found and both will assign Quests, which is nice. If you can't find them outside the fort you shouldn't really bother as mountainhomes take forever to search. As one might imagine the Kings/Queens can only be found at the Capital.<br />
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Elven Druids: Druids, who look like flashing peasants, are generally found in the middle of their Forest Retreats but it can be a bit hit and miss as well. Just keep looking; they don't usually seem to move and hopefully will be in the same place once the Quest is completed. Probably the 2nd easiest to fine as you just look around the Forest. Despite people saying they dislike the Elves, in adventure mode they invariably give out the best Quests because Elves are not attacked by normal animals, so the only targets for your Quests will be Mega/Semi-Megabeasts or the leaders of enemy factions. Even though elves do have a capital there is nothing special to see there; still only one Druid who is only in charge of the Retreat, not the civ.<br />
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Goblin Weaponmasters/Demons: Probably the hardest to find; most Dark Fortresses are multitowered making it very difficult to find the leaders as there are several multifloored towers with twisty passages. Generally they will be in the tallest tower but this is not a definite fact. Sadly, they move around sometimes and are very difficult to find. The Demons are only in the Capital while weaponmasters exist in every Dark Fortress as local leaders. The goblins often have fun Quests as they generally seem to be at war with other civs.<br />
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Kobold Weaponmasters: Often hanging around the middle of a kobold cave camp; however, these guys cannot talk to you and as a result cannot give you a Quest (although you can use them to train your Sword skill)<br />
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=== Finding quest locations ===<br />
After receiving a [[quest]], you will be able to track its location using the {{key|Q}}uest log. Initially it will just give you the location on the {{key|T}}ravel map, though a lesser-known feature is its use in finding the cave entry (or other such target) once you're already in the [[Site map|local map]]. Bring up the quest log again, highlight the quest objective you're after, and {{key|z}}oom to it. It should then provide you with a local map of your current area, complete with a 3x3 box of flashing squares. This box indicates the general location of the cave's mouth. You'll still have to do some searching, but at least it's narrowed down for you. You can bring up this map at any time that you're in the local area of a quest objective.<br />
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The compass on the left of the screen will also greatly help you in finding the entrance; the direction indicated should place you within one screen's distance of the entrance before it turns into "---".<br />
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=== Visiting abandoned fortresses ===<br />
If you start an adventure in a world with one or more abandoned [[Fortress|fortresses]], you can take your adventurer to see the sites of your previous endeavors. When you find one of your old [[Fortress|fortresses]], you will find that everything is a mess. Items are scattered about, things are smashed up and there are probably new hostile inhabitants that you will need to fend off. Visiting your old [[Fortress|fortresses]] might prove to be rewarding, since you can find [[armor]] and [[weapons]] you made (if you made any). The best thing to be found in your [[fortress]] would probably be any left behind [[Legendary artifact|artifact]] [[weapon]] or [[armor]]. This is also probably the best (and only?) way to get [[Legendary artifact|artifact-quality]] [[weapons]] and [[armor]].<br />
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Also remember to check out any [[Engraving#Engravings|engravings]] you made while in [[fortress mode]]. When checking out [[Engraving#Engravings|engravings]] in adventure mode, they reveal a lot more specific information about the event that is engraved.<br />
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=== Combat ===<br />
== The Weapons ==<br />
Weapons are basically divided into ax, sword, spear, pike, mace, whip, bow and hammer, with various versions of these taking up the gray area. Swords are your jack of all trades weapon, doing reasonable slashing damage. They come in short, long and two handed varieties, with the two handed doing the most damage and the short doing the least. Axes are similar to swords and do slashing damage as well. They come in 3 types, battle ax, great ax and halberd. The battle ax does slightly less damage than the long sword while the halberd does the same damage as a two-handed sword. The Great ax is generally too large to use, but it does slightly more than the halberd in damage. The spear does piercing damage and is ideal for damaging internal organs and causing heavy bleeding and unconsciousness. It has no variations. The spear is much more likely to become stuck in its target, which can be a great benefit if used right and a curse if not. The Pike is, for all intents and purposes, the same as a spear. The mace and the hammer are generally the same thing, simply a big metal thing to club your enemies over the head. As expected, they do high damage but their bludgeoning attacks tend to be slower and less effective , if more hilarious, ways to dispatch your foes. The Maul, a hammer, is the highest damaging weapon in the game. The last weapon is the whip, which does gore damage. Its relatively weak but has its uses. The bow throws arrows, which act as tiny spears. Basically, a bow and crossbow is like having a very slow, long range spear. <br />
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== Weapon Tactics ==<br />
Sword: Once again, your general fall back weapon. It’s good against almost everything, if not being that great against almost anything. Works well against both living and non-living enemies as it actively dismembers them. <br />
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Ax: Pretty much the same as a sword, though some people believe it hacks off limbs more commonly. Good against organics, acceptable against anything else. <br />
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Spear/Pike: Ok, here’s where we get a little bit more advanced. The spear is most effective against organic creatures because of two abilities, pierce damage and stick ins. Piercing damage does major harm to internal organs, causing pain, bleeding, vomiting, unconsciousness and death. Stick-ins are when the weapon becomes stuck in the target, allowing it to be twisted. Twisting increases bleeding and causes extreme pain. Because of these two factors spears and pikes are ideal for single combat against organic targets. The are less effective against multiple enemies (because of the stick-ins lowering kill-to-turn ratios) and are even less effective against non-organic enemies (ie bronze colossus).<br />
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Mace/hammer: These weapons rely on their ability to turn your opponent into a tasty pulp through repeated wacking. They break bones and bruise flesh, meaning that aside from a critical hit they generally are less likely to mortal wounds quickly. They are great for crippling organics and non-organics alike, but when it comes to a swift, efficient death they are generally less than perfect. The exception to this is high strength and mace/hammer skill which allows for instant head crushing. <br />
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Whip: The whip uses gore damage, which is similar to a cross between slash and pierce. It can cut off limbs but is more likely to slice up organs and cause extreme pain and bleeding. A few hits will generally render an opponent unconscious and perhaps even badly injured enough to eventually bleed to death. However, the whip is a slow outright killer, sometimes needing dozens of blows to actually finish its target.<br />
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Bow (and arrows): Arrows are much like spears, because of their piercing damage and all the benefits it has. The benefits it has however are its range and its ability to target multiple enemies. They are most effective against organic targets. You, unfortunately, are organic, which makes archers one of your biggest problems. <br />
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== Non-weapon tactics ==<br />
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Besides your weapons you have two other major forms of attack: Wrestling and throwing.<br />
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Wrestling: Wrestling can be performed by standing next to an enemy and pressing (Shift+a) and then (enter) to switch to wrestling. You can wrestle any enemy, however things such as wolves, bears and big cats do not allow you to perform the more advanced moves. After catching hold of a body part you can perform a lock, which allows you to further sprain, break or cripple an opponent. With a free hand you can perform even more advanced moves, such as gouging out eyes or stealing weapons. To gouge eyes grab a head with an open hand, to steal a weapon, grab the weapon and then check your inventory with (Shift+I). press the button corresponding to the weapon and then press a to gain possession of it. <br />
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One of the best tactics for fighting high level weapon masters is to either break his weapon hand or to steal his weapon, essentially making him no more dangerous than a normal peasant.<br />
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Throwing: Throwing is the skill of…well basically throwing shit. And vomit. And bugs and spears and rocks so on. Just about anything can be thrown, sometimes with devastating results. While it seems like weapons (and arrows) tend to be more reliable in their damage causing abilities when thrown, just about anything can potentially be lethal. Picking up a worm and hucking it right through a dragon’s skull is not only possible, but has been done on multiple occasions. A warrior with a high throw skill is often times more dangerous with an arrow than a trained archer is. <br />
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=== Wounds ===<br />
You or your enemy are going to get hurt in the course of your adventures and its pretty useful to know exactly what’s happening when you are. Here’s a quick guide to the various aspects of wounds.<br />
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== Wound indicators ==<br />
Wounds come in several colors and are indicated on the status screen (press z to see your own status screen while pressing (l) to look at your enemy’s). The status screen will list your body parts in different colors to indicate how damaged they are.<br />
White-unhurt and feeling fine<br />
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Light gray-slightly damaged, think a nasty scrape or cut.<br />
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Brownish yellow-moderately damaged, such as a mild sprain or the like<br />
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Yellow-Broken. Applied to joints it means literally broken, while applied to upper and lower body it generally means organ damage.<br />
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Red-Badly damaged. If you got this then chances are you’re in bad shape. Severely broken bones or ruptured organs. If this status is affecting anything even remotely vital you’re more than likely on your way to the grave.<br />
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Gray-lopped off or cut out. This is when you completely lose a body part. Effects include massive pain and bleeding along with ruining your promising juggling career. For some body parts (Noticeably the eye) it will not recover - if not a very long time - and will cause constant pain and unconsciousness, if so then consider restarting in a previous save or completely because fast travelling will not heal it.<br />
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== Wound effects == <br />
Hands: Damage to the fingers or wrists can cause you to drop your held items, but usually only with yellow level damage. Losing a hand entirely gives you a serious handicap, which will more than likely lead to [[fun]] in the future.<br />
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Feet: Causes slowed movement and falling. If removed can cause permanent slowed movement. Removing both can cause a continuous on ground effect.<br />
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Legs: Similar to feet, though often has increased bleeding and pain effects. Loss of one will usually result in death by bleed out. Even if you survive, you’re more than likely on your way to death. Severed legs do make a lovely club though. <br />
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Arms: Damage to almost any part of the arm can cause items to be dropped. Loss of an arm is perhaps even worse than the loss of a leg, due to the loss of weapon and wrestling capabilities. Loss of both arms is both tragic and hilarious. <br />
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Head: Contains the brain, ears, mouth, nose, eyes and throat. Ears, nose and mouth are officially useless and can be cut off in an effort to appear cool. The brain, eyes and throat are however less disposable. Damage to the eyes results in loss of vision, permanent if the eyes are removed, and terrible pain. It's usually not possible to bleed to death from eye loss, though. The throat is highly sensitive and damage causes both extreme bleeding and suffocation effects. The brain is the most important thing you’ve got, and damage to it is an almost instant death. Any wound it receives will more than likely cause instant unconsciousness and severe bleeding. <br />
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Upper body: Contains the heart, lungs, upper spine, liver and kidneys. Both the kidneys and liver have similar effects; namely, heavy bleeding and pain upon injury. The spine causes nervous system damage, which can have several, sometimes permanent effects. The lungs control breathing, so piercing them can cause suffocation. The heart is the main organ of the circulatory system and damage to it is almost always fatal through bleeding. <br />
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Lower body: Contains various organs like the stomach and spleen, all of which have the same effect of bleeding, pain and nausea. Nausea leads to vomiting, which makes the wounded creature unable to attack. There is also the lower spine, which has similar effects to the upper spine.<br />
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== Attack types and their wounds ==<br />
Pierce-dangerous to organic creatures, you included. Often times objects with the pierce effect will become lodged in their target. Removing the weapon from its lodged position causes both increased pain and bleeding but often times can alleviate certain symptoms the piercing has caused.<br />
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Bludgeon: Breaks bones and cripples joints. Generally less dangerous to the internal organs than other damage. The danger comes from its ability to incapacitate you and then turn your head to mush.<br />
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Slash: Dangerous for its ability to sever limbs and cause bleeding. Beware its habit of decapitation.<br />
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Gore: Shreds internal organs, causing all sorts of nasty side effects. Almost worthless on non-organic enemies but can cause severe problems for you living sorts.<br />
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== Dealing with wounds ==<br />
In adventure mode your wounds will heal if you travel (shift + t) and they’ll recover just about anything except a lopped off limb. If you can’t travel the best thing to do is try and run from battle if you’re badly wounded, since running will give you time to stop bleeding and suppress the pain. Beware dropping your weapon and make sure to pick it up before you make a run for it. If an arrow strikes you in the chest its best to leave it there while an arrow to the extremities can be removed. <br />
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=== <s>Living Shields</s> Companions ===<br />
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If you recruit some new members to your party, you'll not only gain extra damage output, you'll also have someone else to take the damage instead of you!<br />
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When you first start out, the easiest <s>human shields</s> friends to recruit are the drunks. They are found in human towns inside the [[tavern]] with the [[Mayor]] (the building you start in if you play a human). They will gladly come with you and block some blows for you. Drunks will usually attempt low-skill [[wrestling]] and (mostly) damage-less punches. Don't expect them to last long when you meet that [[Giant]] you are supposed to kill. Drunks are much rarer in the current version of the game, so it's unlikely that you'll find one.<br />
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To recruit someone into your party, press tal{{k|k}}, move the cursor over them, and press {{k|enter}}. Then in the conversation that follows, simply pick 'Join' from the list of options to ask them to accompany you. [[Children]], the Mayor, and [[Guard]]s don't want any part of this silly adventuring malarkey, but the occasional peasant will be bored enough to join you.<br />
<br />
More detailed searches of towns of various races can yield other adventurers with some actual skills. The generally have a single weapon skill ([[Maceman]], [[Swordsman]], [[Spearman]] and so on) and some armor appropriate to the wealth of the town they were occupying. You will also find Guards around towns, and while they are combat-capable they will not shirk their duty in order to accompany you on your adventures.<br />
<br />
Some otherwise eligible companions may rebuff your offer of becoming a living shield for one of the following reasons:<br />
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If the prospective meat shield considers himself more skilled than you are, he may rebuff you with, "Ha! Such enthusiasm from one such as yourself."<br />
This can be remedied by training your skills until he judges you a bit more skillful than he is.<br />
<br />
Another reason for someone to refuse to die protecting you is that you already have the maximum of 12 companions, and they will rebuff you by asking, "With a band so large, what share of the glory would I have?"<br />
But look at it this way, at least your total party size is 13 when you count yourself! Now that's lucky!<br />
<br />
Another possiblity is to asked your old, retired adventurers for help. They'll never say no unless your party is too big and they should be pretty capible since you trained them. <br />
<br />
==== The Perils of the Wild ====<br />
<br />
{{d for dwarf}}<br />
<br />
You’ll face many creatures on your travels, several mega and semi-mega bests included if you’re taking quests. Heres a quick look at the more dangerous beasts (sentient or not) that you’ll meet.<br />
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=== The Mega and Semi-mega beasts and the sentient races ===<br />
<br />
Bronze Colossus: Probably one of the hardest beasts to combat due to its massive strength, impressive natural armor and complete ignorance of pain, fear and bleeding. Bronze Colossi are basically walking, dwarf crushing statues that will never stop unless beheaded or outright obliterated. They have no organs and do not bleed, making them impossible to knock unconscious. Their immense strength makes them unlikely to give in to wrestling moves (though if you can manage to lock and break a limb it will snap off rather than just becoming useless.) Because of these resistances all you can really do is hack / shoot and hope that it dies before you do. <br />
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Dragon: The main danger of these beasts is their massive fire breath, which can consume dozens of spaces. A high block still is recommended before you fight them. A spear is a great weapon here, as it allows you to potentially knock them unconscious within a few turns. Arrows are also good, though staying at a distance can be dangerous because of the fire breath. Beware their bite, as it can cause major damage. <br />
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Hydra: a joke really, as It seems to lack the regenerative powers of its mythological cousin. It has 7 heads, but damage to one is as serious as damaging the head of a one headed beast. More than likely you’ll have it unconscious in a few turns regardless of what you use.<br />
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Titan: basically an organic bronze colossus. It is essentially a larger, stronger human, with all the weaknesses being the same. Piercing and goring damage can quickly weaken and incapacitate these beasts, but keep an eye out for its wrestling, which can cause some bad joint damage. <br />
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Cyclops: A weaker, smaller titan with one eye. Eye+arrow=win<br />
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Ettin: A two headed giant. Basically a stronger human, usually unarmed. Just hack it until it dies.<br />
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Giant: Just a giant human like thing. Stab it in the neck or break its limbs for massive damage.<br />
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Minotaur: Only thing really dangerous about this guy is his horns. Pretty good wrestler but nothing that should give a reasonably prepared adventurer any problems.<br />
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Humans: Should you wander into battle against a human force its in your best interest to disable their archers first. The only real danger humans have is their numbers and their use of items. Disarming or crippling dangerous guards or weapon maters is highly recommended, since as soon as they are weaponless they are essentially as good as dead.<br />
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Elves: They have wooden equipment, making them laughable most of the time. Once again, the only real threat is their archers and even then they are less dangerous than humans. Elves are generally known for being annoying dicks so its recommended that you slaughter the lot. If you are an elf its recommended that you have tons of fun. <br />
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Dwarves: Their advantage is their steel weaponry and crossbows. Their disadvantage is that their mountain homes are generally so large that you’ll only rarely fight more than one or two. Disable their weapon masters and archers then throw their own axes at them. Juggle their heads in front of their children.<br />
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Goblins: Like weaker dwarves, with less armor and less skill. They have a feeble sense of morals, meaning that they will only sometimes attack you after you hurt one of their friends. You can basically cleave right through them with ease. <br />
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<br />
=== Other Humanoids ===<br />
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<br />
These are creatures that in shape resemble something human, but have no society. <br />
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Antman: A half man half ant hybrid which lives in chasms. They have higher natural armor than a man, but rarely use tools. As long as you’re armed they should pose no problem. <br />
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Batman: Half man, half bat that lives in caves and chasms. They can fly and use weapons, though they rarely do. Attacks with punches and bites; the bites are the most potentially damaging because they cause gore damage. He is the night.<br />
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Blizzard man: Frosty’s asshole brother. Blizzard men are creatures of pure ice that strangely still have organs. They can bite and punch, with biting doing the most damage. They will melt in normal temperatures so they are only found in freezing areas. <br />
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Dark gnome: Mischievous mountain folk who enjoy hard liquor. They‘re basically dwarfs but smaller and no where near as dangerous. Its rare that you’ll even find them, but if you do they should pose no threat to you. They punch and bite but neither is noticeable. <br />
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Fire Imp: Little gremlin like things that are either constantly on fire or made of fire. They’re found only in subterranean lava pits, meaning that you’ll have to go searching for them if you’re ever gonna see one. They only bite (does burn damage rather than gore), but their real danger comes from their ability to set you on fire. Ranged combat is recommended, though darting forward, attacking and then jumping away might be effective if you have no other choice. They can also breathe fire at you though, so its again recommended to stay back.<br />
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Firemen: Like the fire imps, but better. They have the bronze colossus syndrome of having no organs, not bleeding, feeling pain or being able to have weapons stuck in them. They too can set you ablaze, but they’re much harder to kill before they do it. Bludgeoning can break and hence sever their limbs. Recommended that you fight from a distance. Luckily these things only live in underground lava, so you’ll never find them without going into very specific places. <br />
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Frogman: No not those things Race Banon was always killing, but half man half frogs that live in underground water. They can’t equip weapons and are very small, making them almost completely non-threatening. <br />
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Iron man: Millionaire Tony Stark puts on his…oops wrong one. Ironmen are like firemen but less dangerous because they aren’t on fire. They are basically smaller, less dangerous Bronze Colossi. When killed they leave a valuable iron statue. They appear only in chasms.<br />
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Leechman: Half man, Half leech, all sexy. They have no bones, but curiously do have arms (but no legs). They can suck blood, but considering they have no bones and every blow will almost always strike a vital organ its a lot more likely that blood will be coming out of it than you.<br />
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Lizardman: Half man, half lizard; lives in underground water. Punches and bites along with the ability to use items. Similar to many of the other half breeds, but with one notable exception. He’s a lizard. <br />
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Magma man: A man made of pure magma. Everything about this guy is the exact same as the fire man, with the exception that he can’t breathe fire. This makes him less dangerous at a distance. Stay back and throw stuff at him.<br />
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Merpersons: Tiny little mermaids and mermen. Not dangerous at all, and relatively rare to boot. They can equip items but you’ll probably never see one anyway.<br />
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Mountain Gnome: The same as a Dark Gnome, but less evil. Same things apply here.<br />
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Mud man: Like Ironman but made of mud. Can’t equip items and only has a weak punch as a form of attack, making it about as threatening as a mudpie. Lives in underground water.<br />
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Ogre: The middle ground between giant and human. Their punches and bites do a surprisingly small amount of damage, though they can use weapons. As with any big, organic moron its recommended to try and damage their organs to quickly incapacitate and kill them. Piercing damage is very useful. <br />
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Olmman: Half man, half blind cave salamander. Think Gollum but even more messed up and without eyes. Their bites are surprisingly strong. Found only in subterranean water and even then only rarely.<br />
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Ratman: Seems to attack with 4 turtle men cronies, who are surprisingly good warriors. But seriously, they’re about as weak as actual rats. They only come from chasms so don’t worry about them too much.<br />
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Slugman: Do I even have to say? it’s a dang slug man, do you think its dangerous? Its not. Just stab it in its deformed face. <br />
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Snail man: Think slug man, but with a shell that doesn’t actually offer any protection. <br />
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Snakemen: The only real threat these guys pose is their ability to inject poison by biting. If it does bite you its your best bet to try and quickly kill the snake man before his poison takes effect, since it can incapacitate you. <br />
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Troglodyte: Small, reptilian creatures that live underground. Not dangerous unless they attack in swarms and even then they are easily beaten by even a novice adventurer. Use organic combating techniques to deal with them. <br />
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Troll: There’s no real difference between this thing and an ogre. Kill them both the same way. <br />
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Werewolf: Or wolfman. Attacks alone and only bites with a goring attack. Bite can be dangerous but the fact that there is only one of him makes it a lot easier to fight. Fun to wrestle for experience.<br />
<br />
=== Wildlife ===<br />
<br />
Here’s the rundown of all the mundane beasties that you’ll run into <br />
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Beak dog: Basically what happens when parrot gets combined with Velociraptors. They’re a little smaller than a man but quick and use their beaks and claws effectively. Try not to get caught in the center of a group of them, backpedal and cut them down as they give chase.<br />
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Black Bear: These will only ambush you one on one, and given their relative small size and forgettable strength they should pose little threat unless you’re completely unskilled and unarmed. Because there’s only one they can be useful for wrestling practice since you can focus all your attention on them.<br />
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Bonobo: I’ve never seen one myself, though I’ve been told they’re ape like things. Considering their squishy organs it would be best to stab them in the groin.<br />
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Camel: Its…a camel. You’ll probably never see one. <br />
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Carp: BEHOLD, FOR ARMOK BREATHED LIFE INTO THE VERY ROCKS IN THE RIVERS AND COMMANDED THEM TO GO FORTH AND MUTILATE RANDOM PASSERS BY. TO HIS DWARVEN FOLLOWERS HE EXPLAINED IT THUS, “F*** YOU”-the tome of Armok, chapter 2. In all seriousness though, while they may be freaking fresh water sharks in the fortress mode, carp aren’t too dangerous in adventure mode. Their biggest advantage is their environment, being water which you can not breathe. <br />
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Cat: IT’S A KITTY! Anyways, you’ll almost always have too many of these things in fortress and you’ll never see them in adventure. Even if you did, what would you do with them? You wouldn’t hurt them would you?<br />
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Cougar: Like a kitty, but bigger. Cougars are good wrestling practice and good shield training as well, what with the fact that Cougars suck so hard. If you get killed by this thing it was either insanely lucky or you have no arms.<br />
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Cow: It’s a cow. Kill it for free hamburgers. I’m actually not even sure if you can find the dang things in adventure mode.<br />
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Deer: You might see these running away from you in the woods. They’re harmless but good wrestling practice if you feel like strangling a defenseless animal. <br />
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Dog: I’ve never seen one of these in adventure mode, but its pretty obvious what they are huh?<br />
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Donkey: Pulls wagons and things like that. You might see one but its not really worth attacking them. <br />
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Elephants: In prior versions elephants were murderous berserkers, but thankfully they’ve been made a little more realistic. They’re just as big and strong as you’d expect, but won’t bother you unless you walk up and stab’em a few times. Reasonably dangerous, so don’t poke them unless you’re ready.<br />
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Elk: Much like deer, though a little bigger and usually solitary<br />
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Fox: Another small animal that you’ll most likely never see.<br />
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Giant bat: Bigger than a minotaur and more dangerous at times. Often encountered in low visibility areas where they can take you by surprise. Its best to avoid caves until you’re confidant in your blocking and combat skills. <br />
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Giant Cave Spiders: You’ll only rarely encounter these, because of their limited environment. You’ll know they’re near from the webs which hang around their homes. They are NOT to be meddled with. First and foremost, they do not feel pain and will never stop unless killed. Their high number of legs makes it likely that you’ll pointlessly hack away at the limbs while the mouth bites your head in half. Beyond these aspects the spider uses poison and sticky webs to ensnare you. Your best bet is to throw/ shoot it from a distance. If you can’t do that, use other piercing or goring weapons to damage its organs. Despite its ignorance toward pain, it still bleeds like any other animal, so a pierced heart is very effective. <br />
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Giant cave swallow: Pretty much harmless things, just big birds. If they harass you, break their wings and strangle them to death for wrestling points. <br />
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Giant Eagle: A major problem in fortress mode is little more than a pesky annoyance in adventure mode. If they are giving you trouble though, attempt to wrestle and break one of their wings. This should ground them and make them a much easier target. <br />
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Grizzly Bear: A little bigger than the Black Bear, though basically the same. Good for both wrestle and shield points. If they’re really giving you a hard time try catching both hands and its throat. This should not only make it impossible for it to attack, but also give you wrestle points. <br />
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Groundhog: Little rodent thingies. Zombie ground hogs are useful to strangle for wrestling experience. Besides that they’re only really good as golf balls for your putter (read Morningstar) <br />
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Hoary Marmot: A tiny forest dwelling creature. As harmless as it is delicious.<br />
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Horse: A beast of burden sometimes seen in human towns. They have an odd habit of going rogue and kicking children to death. Not to mention they’re some how smart enough to pull crossbow bolts out of their own legs. May cause random insanity if they attack a influential citizen. <br />
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Naked mole dog: Think enormous naked mole rat. Unless you’re both unarmed and unskilled these things are basically very bleedy shrubbery to hack your way through. <br />
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Mountain Goat: it’s a goat, that lives in the mountains. Likes to kill goblins and its not uncommon to find a few legends about goblin slaying goats.<br />
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Mule: Like a horse, but more inbred. Chances are you’ll never see them.<br />
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Musk Ox: Beasts of burden used by elves. Another thing you won’t see. <br />
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Pike: The fish, not the weapon. They’re nothing close to the carp and should be little more than particularly squishy speed bumps to you.<br />
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Raccoon: Forest rodents that you’ll never see. Make a nifty hat. <br />
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Rhesus Macaque :A nettlesome trickster in fortress mode, they are almost never seen in adventure mode. Even if you see them they’re very skittish and a single blow will send them running. Give’em a good strangle if you can catch one.<br />
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Unicorn: The random homicidal tendencies of the horse mixed with a dash of magic and a horn. They’re very aggressive for some reason, though not too hard to bring down. Watch out for that horn and stay away until you’re at least competent. <br />
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Whale: Big aquatic beast. Not dangerous unless in skeletal mode. <br />
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Wolf: And last but not least, the humble and numerous wolf. This is what is gonna be attacking you from now till forever. They’re dangerous the first few ambushes, but they quickly become nothing but barely noticed time wasters. Great for training up armor and shield, as they attack in packs and hence hit you many times, often with no effect. Early on, just be careful not to get caught in the middle of a pack and you’ll be fine. They have a random chance to rip your throat out. This has happened to even the most legendary of adventurers<br />
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=== Modifiers ===<br />
Zombie: Zombie animals are just like their normal counterparts, with a few major exceptions. Firstly, they are no longer effected by pain or bleeding and their organs no longer matter. They are also much slower. This combination of increased difficulty in killing and decreased speed about evens out their threat level. Not too dangerous, unless the creature they’re based on is already strong. <br />
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Skeletal: All of the advantages of Zombie with none of the bad effects. Skeletal creatures are all immune to pain and do not bleed, but they remain just as quick as their living counterparts. Large skeletal beasts, such as dragons or whales are truly a terror to face.<br />
<br />
== Avoid the impossible ==<br />
Some things are harder than others. Decide for yourself if this is due to unbalancing of the game, realism or simply to add to the variety of challenges.<br />
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=== [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelob Shelob]'s in-laws, aka Giant Cave Spiders ===<br />
Unless you are a legendary or better (ok, its not possible to go beyond legendary..) bow-/crossbowman, you should at all costs AVOID giant cave spiders (Unless, of course, you enjoy [[Fun]])!! They shoot a web at you, making you immobilized while they rip your limbs off one by one. Then when you finally break free from the web, and can attack again, you've probably lost your arms while lying on the floor and the spider is about to throw you by your head up into the roof. Cave Spiders bleed to death eventually, but they know no fear nor pain, meaning they will not black out even if you manage to inflict serious damage including severed limbs. They are also capable of surviving red-level wounds to the body and legs and multiple severed limbs for long enough to eviscerate an adventurer. Leave these for the living shields to deal with while you slip out the other way, ideally from the cave entirely, never to return.<br />
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Even if you are a legendary projectile weapon user, reconsider attacking a giant cave spider because in the tight quarters of a cave you might be shooting it from stealth when a giant rat or something similarly stupid walks next to you and triggers your loss of cover. The spider would then punish your arrogance immensely.<br />
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''Note'': If absolutely required they ARE killable, but you need luck, and lots of it. Adept swordsman + Proficient [[shield]] user + Skilled ambusher manages to sneak up on it and then counterstrike + block does the job. In a suicide swordsman test run I had dethoraxation (decapitation for spiders) = instakill on the first counterstrike, second GCS got a mortal wound before it webbed me and bled to death while trying to chew through me, only broke sword wielding hand and leg. Third spider broke my shield hand and had me mortally wounded in no time after that, although I eventually killed it after unwebbing myself. That makes it ~2.5/3 chances to win, not bad for a rookie. And I was healed after each successful spider kill.<br />
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''To conclude'': Basically, as long as your shield wielding hand is intact (and shield skill is high of course) you have pretty good chances of survival in 1 on 1, otherwise you're dead. Any extra armor (in my case exceptional full plate + normal armor skill) also helps in glancing off their bites.<br />
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Another interesting thing is that before fighting one of them I threw a spear at it and it lodged in the wound, and it seems that the spider has a priority to break my grip as it repeatedly successfully broke my grip every time(that happened ~5-6 times in a row) I grabbed the lodged spear. That points to a possible distraction for a GCS in case of soloing it.<br />
<br />
=== Arrows ===<br />
Don't take on quests where you need to kill elite bow-/crossbowmen! Generally, avoid flying arrows! Why? Because bow/crossbowmen have the tendency to see farther than you can. They are therefore able to fire at you from beyond your sight, making it hard to see where the arrow(s) are coming from. You may therefor end up chasing the shooter in the wrong direction, giving the shooter even MORE time to turn you into a pin-cushion. Of course, this is only the case if you manage to survive the first 3-4 arrows, because arrows are BAD for anyone but the shooter's health. Piercing hits like arrows are much more likely to damage internal organs, and while you might shrug off a moderate blunt hit to the chest a similar piercing hit could directly damage one or both lungs or your heart and instantly kill you.<br />
<br />
One extremely useful survival tip is to immediately drop prone (with the s key) as soon as you notice you are being shot at. Prone targets move more slowly, but seem to be much harder to hit with ranged attacks than standing ones. This is also worth noting to avoid wasting ammunition on fallen targets.<br />
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Another solid solution is to get behind something as quickly as possible and try sneaking. Even when caught in the open cover as flimsy as a single tree may be sufficient to begin sneaking. Sneaking around trees can also sometimes act as a compass for determining the direction of the shooter. By checking when and where sneaking is possible, the approach vector of any given observer or close cluster of observers can be extrapolated.<br />
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Finally, since archers are generally sentient, most (besides mayors) can be killed in their sleep.<br />
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If you do accept a quest against an elite bowman or crossbowman and manage to reach melee range, immediately grapple its weapon, ideally by dropping yours and pulling the weapon out of its grasp entirely before throwing it away.<br />
<br />
== Training yourself ==<br />
Gaining stats ([[Attributes|strength, agility, toughness]]) helps a lot when fighting. How to best train yourself?<br />
<br />
==== Throwing ====<br />
To find rocks simply hit {{k|l}} and look at any rock coulored tiles some of these will be simply called by the rock name (e.g. [[limestone]]) and cannot be picked up but some will be called pebbles. Rocks are practically free ammo. When you find a tile with [[pebbles]], pick up a lot of them (there are infinite rocks), and start throwing them. You can simply throw them at the tile you are standing at. Every throw will gain you 30 points toward the skill "Throwing", and will after a while increase your stats (Strength, agility, toughness). You will need to throw 600 rocks to reach legendary Thrower (starting with no skill).<br />
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For best efficiency, drop all of your gear (including held but not worn items) and empty out your backpack near your throwing location. This is done in order to keep your inventory simple for the rock-throwing portion. Then pick up a ton of rocks by pressing {{k|g}}-{{k|a}} over and over- ideally one would pick up 600 rocks at a single time, but you will probably get bored before then. Then, mash {{k|t}}-{{k|a}}-{{k|enter}} over and over until all of your rocks are thrown back at the floor. If you are not a legendary Thrower after this, repeat. Afterwards, remember to pick up your gear and re-fill your backpack.<br />
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''Alternate way'' : It could be difficult to repeat the {{k|t}}-{{k|a}}-{{k|enter}} sequence without making mistake. So you can just alternate {{k|t}}-{{k|enter}} quickly : The first {{k|t}} will open the inventory, the second will chose the rock which is in "t" position, and {{k|enter}} will throw it. In the same fashion, when collecting rock, prefer a tile where the rock is on "b" position : If you quickly alternate {{k|g}} and {{k|a}}, sometime you will open the [a]nnouncement panel, which will slow you down. Another solution to this is to switch the ''pick up'' and ''announcements'' keys, so you can press {{k|a}} to pick up an item and {{k|a}} to pick up rock.<br />
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Thrown objects are also a cheap way to injure enemies before they reach you if you are a melee fighter.<br />
<br />
You can also throw other stuff you find, like flies, beetles, worms, and even vomit or [[sand]]. If you have a tendency to chop off enemy limbs, you can even throw these limbs. Killing zombies with their companion's severed heads and feet is always good for a laugh. [[iron_man|Iron men]] are fun, because they leave behind a nice [[statue]] for the taking which can be thrown. Arrows and weapons seem to be particularly deadly when thrown because they deal the same damage as they would in melee, including piercing or slashing damage type, but even the most innocuous or silly items can come up with a kill.<br />
<br />
Most thrown objects deal blunt type damage, so they will break and bruise limbs, but arrows and weapons can deal their normal damage types. This is particularly useful to consider when trying for a desperate one-shot kill on a [[Giant Cave Spider]] that's about to web you and shred you into little chunks, as piercing attacks like thrown arrows and [[spear]]s damage internal organs (making them more likely to get a one-hit kill, as an enemy can live through having the outside of their head moderately damaged but not from having the same amount of damage done to their brain) and thrown axes or swords can sever body parts and leave deep gashes (leading to massive bleeding or slit throats).<br />
<br />
==== Bow/Crossbow-skill ====<br />
This skill trains in the same fashion as throwing. You gain skill per shot, not per hit. This is a more expensive skill to train than throwing because you need to buy (or find) arrows/bolts, but is also a much more deadly skill. Fired projectiles do much more damage than thrown ones, and are also piercing type weapons which can do crippling damage to internal organs. The majority of thrown weapons are blunt and will do much more superficial bruising and bone-breaking damage- at best, a lucky hit will break someone's spine or damage internal organs to a small degree. Shooting arrows at enemies is fun, because it is very efficient and will destroy enemies quite easily. <br />
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Sadly, this also goes for enemy bow/crossbowmen. You will often be shot in the leg and crippled by an enemy you can't even see, who will then proceed to shoot you in the face until you die - which won't be very long afterwards unless you manage to find something to hide behind. This is somewhat avoidable - train in sneaking to avoid being seen by enemies that could otherwise perforate your skin, and get a good shield and armor to better keep arrows. (See below for both skills).<br />
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Make sure to take extra <s>meat shields</s> companions along with you if you're planning on using ranged weapons, it'll take time before you level the appropriate skill to bash things with your weapon in melee so it's imperative you stay out of the fighting till then. Drunks are particularly useful here, as they love to dive on things and collapse into a massive wrestling pile which you can take pot-shots at. Don't worry, you can't hit your guys. Not that you'd care.<br />
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Metal bolts are quite heavy and expensive, so if you wish to train in this skill it would probably be a good idea to raid an old fortress of yours first and get all the wooden/bone bolts there.<br />
<br />
==== Wrestling ====<br />
Since melee weapon skills are hard train because not every hit gives points towards the skill, why not train your [[wrestling]]? When you are alone with a unconscious enemy, why not break some limbs before finishing it off? Monsters often try to break your arms and legs, so having a bit of skill in wrestling will help break those locks a lot, and breaking that legendary swordsmans sword hand at the beginning of the fight will make him laughably weak. Also, training wrestling is a quicker way to better stats (strength, agility, toughness) because gain points per move instead of per "hit". Wrestling also handles dodging skill which is very handy to have.<br />
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A good way to train wrestling is to find an undead region on the map- preferably Sinister if you remember the map layout from Fortress Mode. Obtain a pack of zombie herbivores therein, preferably of small size- do not attempt this with zombie [[elephants]]. Slaughter every zombie in the vicinity of this pack of herbivores but the one that you think is the most crippled, making sure to pick one with a throat to leave alive.<br />
<br />
Press {{k|c}} and change your combat preferences from Strike to Close Combat. This means that your default attack when you press towards an enemy to making a random wrestling move, or the continuation (joint lock, break) or (strangle) if you have a break/strangle-able area held.<br />
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Then, walk over, and grab the zombie's neck (yes, with your weapon or shield- it is quite optional to drop what you're holding) and begin strangulation by holding the direction the zombie is strangling in. You will make several strangles per second and gain approximately 15 XP (tentative measure) per strangulation. Zombies cannot die from this, so you will earn enough XP to become legendary within a few minutes. <br />
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When your character becomes tired, break off from strangling and walk it off- you become less tired by ambling about aimlessly. If you become too hungry or thirsty to continue, just run away or destroy the zombie, {{k|T}}ravel, and then repeat after moving a square and back.<br />
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This can also be done at ruins, but you run the risk of weapon-carrying enemies and especially weaponmaster quest-zombies. In an undead ruin, there are also far, far more monsters in the area compared to hunting down a pack of undead animals.<br />
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Alternatively, wait until nightfall, and wrestle a sleeping enemy. Sleeping enemies are unconscious, and cannot detect you if you sneak. The autocombat will cause your adventurer to break limbs, grab and release bits of clothing, and other nonlethal attacks. Occasionally random chance will cause a chokehold; simply step back a tile and then resume. In this manner, you can train wrestling extremely quickly without the dangers of wandering in an undead zone.<br />
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Yet another alternative is presented by fish. No harmful wrestling moves can be performed on them so cornering a carp, tigerfish, or milkfish will raise wrestling quickly, while training swimming. Avoid hippopotamus infested waters.<br />
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A final option presents itself when exploring caves, there are many weak enemies to be found here, choose one (say a ratman) and walk up to it, grabbing it perform a takedown. Before it can stand up grab its arm and try to break it, as soon as it gets up perform another takedown, continue to break all the joints in both of your <s>toy's</s> <s>victim's</s> opponent's arms and then move on to legs, finally gouge out its eyes and begin strangling it to death. This gives you plenty of wrestling exp with very little risk as the enemy will only get in one or two strikes before being taken down after which it will prioritize standing back up.<br />
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==== Swimming ====<br />
Having no swimming skill in Adventure Mode is not a particularly good thing if you intend to go near water. Anyone with no swimming skill who falls or is pulled/pushed into water will begin to drown immediately if it is over 4/7 deep, and will also be unable to climb out of water this deep - usually resulting in instant death.<br />
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To voluntarily jump into a pond or [[river]] you have to {{k|Alt}}-move off the edge of the land. This will present you with a choice of walking out into the open space above the water (immediately and unsurprisingly followed by a one-story fall) or moving directly into the water. To get back out, {{k|Alt}}-move into the riverbank/pond edge.<br />
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As long as you have at least some Swimming skill, you will be able to move around in deeper water and will gain Swimming skill for every tile you move. Without Swimming, you will have to find depth 4 water to voluntarily paddle about in with your water wings on for your first skill points. Any deeper and you'll start to drown, any shallower and you can't swim in it. Hit {{k|m}} to set your swimming options.<br />
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Another option is to find a body of water with a ramp into it. Walk down the ramp into the water, which will cause you to start "drowning". However, you can simply walk back out after 10 turns or so to stop drowning, and you will have gained some swimming skill. Repeat until you reach novice skill. If you don't have an abandoned fortress set up for this, slopes into water can be found at ocean beaches.<br />
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All in all this makes Novice Swimming an excellent starting skill, as you can (eventually) get Legendary skill simply by swimming back and forth in two squares of water and get lots of stat points in the process. However, this is mind-numbingly dull so good luck with that. One should also keep in mind that water in cooler areas may suddenly freeze when the sun starts to go down, and thus instantly kill any creatures within. As such, it's a good idea to do your training laps somewhere warm.<br />
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It also seems that you are not able to move out of water of less than (7/7) onto the river bank. In addition, while you are swimming, you can not move to the travel map! You must first leave the water.<br />
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You can crosstrain Ambushing while Swimming to save time- if you start with no Ambushing and Novice Swimming, you will be an Accomplished or Expert Ambusher, give or take, by the time you are a Legendary Swimmer. For more on Ambushing, see below. You can also crosstrain melee skills with swimming by picking a river and swimming down it, training Ambush when it's quiet and training melee when it's not. Some rivers have very high densities of fish, giving you lots of targets to hit. They will tend to gather up, bumping into and slowing each other down ahead of you for you to kill and an adventurer will be all but invincible against non-sturgeons after a few statgains. Just remember that Hippos have the right of way.<br />
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NOTE: Water does NOT currently cleanse fire, if you are burning, jumping into a pool of water will not save you<br />
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==== Ambushing ====<br />
The Ambusher skill is the parent to the {{k|S}}neak ability, which makes you character move more slowly and stealthily to avoid being noticed. Sneak cannot be activated if an enemy can currently see you, but you can use it immediately if you break line of sight somehow. Sneaking around will increase your Ambusher skill even if nobody is around to see you.<br />
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Unfortunately, the best way to train Ambushing is to start sneaking and just hold a direction to run, until you've run 18,000 squares (assuming you started with no skill). This takes a long time, so you may wish to train sneaking just by sneaking whenever possible while playing the game normally in order to avoid boredom.<br />
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Sneaking is particularly useful for avoiding ranged attacks, as even Novice skill allows you to get within four or five squares of an enemy before they spot you reliably. It is relatively easy at normal levels of skill to stand anywhere but right next to an enemy and not be spotted for a long time, if ever. However, standing next to sombody without them spotting you is difficult even with legendary skill. However, even if they spot you moving next to them they will only get one shot at you which is a lot better than the hundreds they would have had if you'd been blundering around in the dark too far away to even see them when they opened fire.<br />
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If you are far faster than the enemy you can sometimes swoop in, attack, and back off to 1-square distance where you are less visible. Sometimes they will spot you, but other times you can literally slice off the opponent's leg and retreat to a safe distance. This may occur because enemies can only make checks to see if you are sneaking during their own turns, and a very fast (2000+ speed) player can run in, stab them, and retreat to a safe distance before their turn comes up.<br />
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The skill also has a valuable part to play in the noble art of running away. As long as you can get out of sight of all the enemies after you at once - such as around a corner indoors, or ducking behind a tree outside - you can start sneaking and head off in another direction. If your skill is too low however the enemies might be close enough to see you as soon as you try to sneak off.<br />
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The most useful part of sneaking is undoubtedly the 'stealth throw'. While firing a missile weapon or attacking in melee will get you noticed immediately, throwing things at people will not. Stock up on dead enemies' weapons, clothing and severed body parts and you can pretend you're some gruesome comedy version of Sam Fisher. You know you want to.<br />
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==== Armor and Shield Use ====<br />
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Armor User lets you wear heavy armor without slowing down, and might control the passive block rate of armor - a very useful skill, if true, because it controls how often your shiny full plate suit will actually work. <br />
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Shield User helps the block roll you make when you are attacked. A Legendary Shield User is far, far more capable of taking on enemies, especially projectile-based weaponmasters whose bolts and arrows are blockable with a shield to a far greater degree than with one's torso, so it is worthwhile to train these two skills.<br />
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Normally, you gain 10 Shield User XP per time you block an attack with a shield, and 2 Armor User XP per time you are attacked while wearing armor. This means that to gain the 18,000 XP necessary for legendary, you must block 1800 strikes, and be attacked at least 9000 times. Naturally, this could take some time- time in which a low-skill adventurer may die from attacks by worthy opponents.<br />
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However, a useful shortcut exists- if you find a small zombie herbavore to strangle in the above wrestling training method, you can also (if it is a small and non-dangerous animal such as a zombie [[groundhog]]) {{k|s}}it down next to it (to minimize your own speed and thus get attacked more often) and hold {{k|5}} to sit down next to the animal and block its attacks over and over. This is still slow, but leagues faster than waiting to train while fighting- it also means that you are probably not in any danger assuming you picked a sufficiently pathetic type of animal.<br />
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Warnings- Make sure that you have your {{k|c}}ombat preference set to Close Combat, otherwise you may counterstrike and kill the zombie. This way, you will wrestle it during a counterstrike instead of doing something that may actually hurt it such as counterstriking with your weapon.<br />
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It is probably also preferable to start with a modicum of skill in Armor and Shield using to make sure you don't accidentally get instakilled or crippled and are good at blocking with your shield to gain XP fast. You'll also want to have non-crappy armor and a good shield or two (dual wielding shields may increase your ability to block) to maximize your ability to block and to make sure you are taking as little as possible damage, if any at all, during training.<br />
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=== Exploration ===<br />
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== Basic exploration tips ==<br />
When traveling it’s a good idea to avoid evil areas until you’re reasonably powerful, as they tend to contain stronger enemies. Also avoid caves for this same reason, you never know when a dragon is lurking in the shadows. Remember that only human towns have shops, so don’t die of hunger wandering the dwarves mountain homes looking for that allusive Applebees. Water can be had from rivers and stagnant pools, though fast traveling (shift + t) makes thirst and hunger go away. If you are exploring caves, make sure to have some water and food with you, as some can be quite deep. <br />
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== Fortress exploration tips. == <br />
If you’ve abandoned a fortress in the world and you’re now adventuring, you can find that same fortress on the map. Ask townsfolk about the surroundings and eventually they’ll mention the fortress and its direction. From there you need only to follow the directions till the fortress shows up on your map. <br />
The perils of fortress exploration<br />
If your fortress was abandoned or destroyed there’s more than likely a reason why. Be it magma overflows, flooding, goblin sieges or perhaps digging a little too greedily and too deep there are likely to be remnants of your downfall somewhere in the remains. Wild beasts and sentient invaders alike will more than likely be slugging it out in your once grand halls. Beyond this there is the danger of forgetting what lever does what and accidentally flooding the room with lava or collapsing the entrance.<br />
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= The advantages of Fortress exploration =<br />
Depending on how advanced your fortress was it may contain extremely rare, powerful or valuables items. Raiding fortresses is the only way to get adamantine items and wafers, as well as the only way to get artifact weapons. Beyond this, you can read the engravings on the walls in order to fill your legends list. <br />
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= Preparation =<br />
Whatever destroyed your fortress is what is going to be squatting in it now. If a goblin siege took you down, then prepare to fight some gobbies. If the horrors of the deep raped your little dwarven ass then prepare to fight those. If they drowned then find some waterwings etc. Make sure you’re fully stocked on arrows (if you use them) as well as water and food. Leaving anything you don’t need back in the tavern in town is a good idea too, as it lets you carry more loot. <br />
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= Plumbing the Deep =<br />
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While wandering the halls of your old fortress its best to secure each floor one by one, to avoid being ambushed. Explore one entire floor then move on to the next. This isn’t a requirement but it can help in finding the best loot as well as insuring against surprise arrow buttsex. If you start to get overburdened with all the loot climb to a secure floor and dump it in a pile. You can come back for it after you’ve finished exploring. Also note that, while traps no longer work, their components (giants blades, spiked balls etc) remain just as lethal in your hands. Also note that you can pick up and throw ballista bolts. <br />
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= What to do with all your newly acquired wealth =<br />
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Not much I’m afraid. While masterwork adamantine weapons are very useful and the raw chunks of adamantine are extremely valuable there’s nothing to really buy with them. The adamantine weapons you find are the strongest in the game and shops will never sell anything above iron so once you’ve got the weapons there’s pretty much nothing more you need. This will most likely be fixed in up coming versions (perhaps paying a blacksmith to make you weapons). <br />
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=== Summary ===<br />
*Avoid flying arrows<br />
*Throw rocks/statues/socks/bugs/sand/coins/arms/heads/swords/arrows/kitchen sinks at enemies that still haven't reached you<br />
*Train your stats before taking on your first quest-monster<br />
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[[Category:Guides]]<br />
[[Category:Adventurer mode]]</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Adventurer_mode&diff=5513940d:Adventurer mode2009-10-15T16:18:45Z<p>Zchris13: /* Civilization? */</p>
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<div>In '''adventurer mode''', you pick a race ([[dwarf]], [[human]], or [[elf]]) and start out in either a [[Site|town]] of your race or in a previous [[fortress]] you played on. You can receive [[quest]]s, venture into the wilderness to find [[caves]], abandoned towers and other [[Site|villages]]. You can even visit your old [[Fortress|fortresses]] and find whatever riches were left to be guarded by the [[creatures]] that sealed the fate of your [[fortress]].<br />
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The user interface differs somewhat from [[fortress mode]]; you may want to refer to the [[Adventure Mode quick reference|quick reference]] guide, or examine the detailed [[controls]] page. [[Site map]] may also prove useful.<br />
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== Your first adventure ==<br />
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=== Picking a race ===<br />
When it comes to picking a race, there is difference in [[skills]]. [[Dwarves]] cannot wear [[human]] sized [[armor]], and are somewhat limited in the [[weapons]] they can wield due to their size. [[Elves]] have a slightly different set of [[skills]]. [[Humans]] are generally fairly well-balanced, and are the easiest to acquire quests from. Each race fares differently in combat; you may wish to look at the races' pages for the finer details.<br />
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=== Choosing skills ===<br />
Basically, if you want to start with a [[weapon]], you need to avoid having the most points spent in unarmored/[[wrestling]]. If you, for example, choose to start out with most points in [[swordsman]], you will start out with a [[sword]]. When you have chosen your preferred set of [[skills]], you can press {{key|Enter}} to embark. The higher the [[skills]] in [[weapons]]/[[armor]] determine the quality of the equipment you start out with.<br />
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All the [[skills]] you see CAN be improved through use in game, so don’t worry about spreading them out completely evenly. In general, pick the [[skills]] you think you’re going to use. The [[skills]] are pretty self explanatory but its recommended that you put at least a few points into [[shield]] / [[armor]] and into a type of weapon. Be warned that [[weapon]] [[skills]] generally take a while to level up, so placing a good deal of points into a singe weapon may be to your advantage. Also keep in mind that your skills determine what kind of equipment you have in the beginning, ie high sword skill means you’ll start with a sword. For information on the weapons and the other aspects of combat, please check the combat section. It might also be a good idea to use a point or two for swiming, otherwise you might end up drowning in a puddle.<br />
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=== Setting out ===<br />
If you chose human, you will start out inside the Mead hall. You will see the Mayor (purple) as well as the occasional townsperson. Press {{key|k}} and talk to the Mayor. Press 'services' for a [[quest]]. You can talk to the Citizens and recruit them to your party for some additional combat aid if they feel like it (note, people with no combat skills are unlikely to follow you, and the major and town guards never will.) If you choose dwarf, you start out in a region just outside the entrance to a given fortress. There is a [[mayor]] or the [[king]] himself inside the fortress.<br />
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Be sure to read the [[Adventure Mode quick reference]] or use the help files for more information on the commands in Adventure mode.<br />
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=== Survival ===<br />
Congratulations, you’ve created a character and are now about to embark on your fantastic adventure! For now, lets focus on the bare bones of staying alive shall we? First things first, you need food and water. If you’re a human you start with some, but barring that you may need to find a waterskin. These can be bought in human towns, specifically at the shop. DO NOT STEAL THESE OR ANYTHING ELSE. Do not pick anything up and walk outside the store before you trade for it. Why? Because you are currently weak and your neck is currently arrow bait. After getting the water skin, simply find a water source and hit (Shift+I) to interact with the object. Press the letter of the Water skin and you should be able to fill it from the water source. After it’s full press (e)to open the Eat menu and select the water. Food can be acquired from stores eaten in the same way. Beware, you won't be able to swim if you are hungry, thirsty or if you haven't slept for a day or two. If you get drowsy, just find a bed in a city or just find a good place to sleep. Avoid sleeping in an hostile place, if you don't want to have a bit too much fun.<br />
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Now that you know how to work your mouth we can move on to miscellaneous tips for survival. Firstly, you are very tasty and chances are (unless you’re an elf) the wildlife will soon be attempting to eat your face. A bear or cougar isn’t too much of a problem because there’s only one, the real problem will be wolf packs. <br />
A single wolf is easy to dispatch, but a dozen or so can prove very problematic indeed. Beware large packs until you’ve gained a little experience. Secondly, do not piss off the towns folk, as they tend to have guards. Lastly, beware of taking quests or attempting things before you’re ready, as you will more than likely have tons of [[fun]]<br />
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=== Civilization? ===<br />
Elves live out in the forest, literally. Although defined to specific regions on the map, they have no structural wealth whatsoever. Some trees are named.<br />
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Humans live in towns comprised of buildings and often a paved road. Human villages are highly modular. The small 5x5 buildings are citizen houses and are marked with an "H" on the town auto-map. Medium buildings are stores, marked with a symbol that indicates what they sell - food, weapons, clothing, and two kinds of trinkets (incidentally, armor and clothing is sold in the same building). As of the current version, you start in the mead hall which is marked with an "M" on the automap. There are one or two apartment buildings buildings which are two stories, with six rooms a story; they are also marked with an "H." There are two really large buildings - the "T"emple and the a fort-like building that is marked with "K." Temples tend to have two or three levels, and a pool of water, while the "K" buildings are three or four floors high and are almost entirely empty (they will occationally contain random smatterings of clothing though, if you're looking for things to sell.)<br />
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Dwarves live underground. Their entrances are large square pits with stairs around the perimeter, and a row of leading down into the fortress halls at the bottom. The main halls are wide and have pillars near the walls, long and occasionally turn corners. Different levels in the fortress are marked by a row of ramps with two pillars on the side (walk towards the side of the ramp that has the pillars) and, although the number of floors in a fortress can vary, they are usually little and only become deep if the lay of the land above is variable. There are one 1-tile wide hallways, empty rooms, and scant Dwarves in these pre-fab fortresses. It's obvious the computer is playing a completely different game than you are in [[Fortress Mode]]!<br />
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Goblins live in [[obsidian]] towers, usually found built in twos, though they both don't necessarily have to be built up. One could be a "tower," one could be an over-glorified "basement." There is probably a temple nearby, completely similar to human temples. Goblin towers have tight 1-wide hallways, spacious and empty rooms, and strange hall extensions that end in remote cross-like dead-ends. Like dwarf fortresses, there is rarely anything in a Goblin tower asides from Goblins, and they have a strange tendency not to attack non-Goblin visitors. They seem to have lots of children.<br />
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You may come across what the map defines as a "Goblin" city that is actually populated by Humans or Dwarves living in or around the towers.<br />
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=== Trading ===<br />
In towns you can find merchants inside some [[buildings]]. Talk to them to trade with them. After buying an item, you must pick it up manually from somewhere in the shop. {{K|l}}ook around for an item without $ signs around it.<br />
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==== Selling ====<br />
You can also sell things to traders. Bones, corpses, body parts and rocks are not valuable, no matter how attached you are to a particularly aerodynamic kobold head. Small creatures discovered while {{k|L}}ooking Carefully may be worth a small amount of money. In order to sell or buy items, stand adjacent to the shopkeeper in his store, and {{k|k}}onverse with the shopkeeper. Select "Trade" and press {{k|enter}} to open the trade window.<br />
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Select each non-worthless item you wish to sell, and then set a price using the following format{{verify}}:<br />
* {{k|a}} asking for 9000☼<br />
* {{k|s}} +100☼<br />
* {{k|d}} +10☼<br />
* {{k|f}} +1☼<br />
* {{k|g}} reset to 0☼<br />
* {{k|h}} -1☼ (offering)<br />
* {{k|j}} -10☼<br />
* {{k|k}} -100☼<br />
* {{k|l}} offer 9000☼<br />
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The use of these keys may seem non-intuitive, and this is further complicated by the limit on your available offers by your current financial health.<br />
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Shopkeepers are used to adventurers with inflated ideas about the value of their goods, so it may be simplest to ask for 9000☼ for your goods, or offer 1☼ for theirs and suggest a {{k|t}}rade. The shopkeeper will counteroffer with the actual value of the goods, and will be quite delighted to accept a {{k|t}}rade at the price they've just quoted to you. You can then purchase things with your store credit. After the trade sessions, the balance of your coins will appear on a small table next to a chest.<br />
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[[Category:Adventurer mode]]<br />
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====Theft====<br />
You may also pick up the item before buying it, but you should never walk out of a shop carrying an unbought item, as that is theft. It is punishable by death if you are caught, and excommunication if you are not. On any occasion when you have stolen goods from a store, ie goods bounded by the $$ signs, the game requires you to exit the site ''and'' travel a considerable distance before allowing you to travel. This may make a getaway more difficult if your adventurer is not already faster than anyone else. This only applies to goods in stores; killing townsfolk and taking their personal things, including those of the shopkeep still only requires exiting the site. The moment you are out of sight, you will be able to warp out as usual. Theft and murder remain within entities; even depopulating one country and stealing all its things will not generate ill response in another country.<br />
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====Managing coins====<br />
Coins can and will encumber your adventurer, eventually reducing your speed. To reduce that effect you can try to exchange your copper and silver coins for gold ones. To do that you can purchase goods from a merchant to the sum of your copper coins, then sell them back. Check the merchant's chest to see how much gold and silver coins they have. You can delay the problem by selling your loot to many merchants, as they will try to pay you in higher denomination currency first.<br />
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A few goods are strictly superior to all forms of coinage as a store of value, most commonly giant cave spider silk items. A suitably sneaky (or powerful) adventurer can murder a few dwarves for such items for trade and sale for human goods. Giant cave spider silk is a non-renewable resource in a given world. Please harvest sustainably.<br />
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=== Equipping your adventurer === <br />
After acquiring [[armor]] from one source or another, you'll most likely want to equip it. To do this, first make sure it is in your possession--not on the ground. You can then {{key|w}}ear it, granted you don't already have too much on that equipment slot already. You can {{key|r}}emove or {{key|d}}rop inferior equipment as necessary.<br />
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[[Weapons]] and [[Armor#Shields and Bucklers|shields]] are handled differently. There is no explicit equipment command. Instead, they are automatically equipped when you either {{k|g}}et them from the ground or {{k|r}}emove them from your [[backpack]] - provided the hand that would wield them is free. So in order to change [[weapons]] or [[Armor#Shields and Bucklers|Shields]] you would need to {{k|p}}ut your equipped weapon into your [[backpack]] and then {{k|r}}emoving your new desired weapon. You do not need to drop weapons and equip new ones etc. Simply remember the {{k|r}}emove command and the {{k|p}}ut into container command.<br />
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It should be noted that the world of DF seems to have a lot of left handers, so do not be surprised if your character holds the weapon with the left hand and the [[Armor#Shields and Bucklers|shield]] with the right hand.<br />
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== Traveling the world ==<br />
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=== How-to ===<br />
You can walk around the whole world tile by tile if you wish, but given the size of the world, you might want to consider using another method. Pressing {{key|T}} will let see a very zoomed out map of the surrounding area. Moving about on this map is much faster, as well as it heals your adventurer, keeps him from starving, dehydrating, or getting tired. To exit this screen and explore the area you've reached, press {{k|>}}.<br />
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If there is more than one feature such as a [[Site|town]] or group of [[creatures]] on that map tile you will get to choose which one you want to arrive near.<br />
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Also while traveling on the world map, there is a chance that your adventurer can get randomly ambushed by enemies. When that happens, you must survive by either fighting them off or hide from them.<br />
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Jumping off [[Cliff|cliffs]] is not normally advisable; however, it is possible to do so by holding {{key|Alt}} while pressing the appropriate movement key. Jumping off [[Cliff|cliffs]], depending on how high you jumped, will most of the time cover your eyes in blood, which lessens visuals.<br />
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=== Finding a Quest ===<br />
At this present point Quests can only be taken from people of leadership in an organization.<br />
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Human Weapon Masters: No matter what time of the day, human weapon masters will be in the mead hall, where you appear. However, if it is late they will immediately head for their homes so you may need to intercept them before they reach the door. The human capitals are not very different from the normal towns; humans have no central leadership so each weapon master is only a local leader of their own town, even at the capital the weapon master only rules the capital itself and not the other towns. Ignore the keeps; unless you're playing with a mod like LL no leaders hang out in the Keeps.<br />
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High Priests: Humans and Goblins will often suggest you ask the High Priest for quests but in all my times of doing this all this will do is allow you to join their religion. If you want to join the religion, the High Priest, as long as it is a reasonable time of day, should be wandering around the temple. Worth a visit at least as Temples are often the most interesting parts of a town/dark fortress because there are so many different kinds.<br />
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Dwarven Mayors/Kings/Queens: Hit and miss finding them, you'll generally find them on the outside of the fort but sometimes they move around; some have been known to run out of the fort and became a migrant unable to give out quests. Both Mayors and <br />
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Kings/Queens can be found and both will assign Quests, which is nice. If you can't find them outside the fort you shouldn't really bother as mountainhomes take forever to search. As one might imagine the Kings/Queens can only be found at the Capital.<br />
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Elven Druids: Druids, who look like flashing peasants, are generally found in the middle of their Forest Retreats but it can be a bit hit and miss as well. Just keep looking; they don't usually seem to move and hopefully will be in the same place once the Quest is completed. Probably the 2nd easiest to fine as you just look around the Forest. Despite people saying they dislike the Elves, in adventure mode they invariably give out the best Quests because Elves are not attacked by normal animals, so the only targets for your Quests will be Mega/Semi-Megabeasts or the leaders of enemy factions. Even though elves do have a capital there is nothing special to see there; still only one Druid who is only in charge of the Retreat, not the civ.<br />
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Goblin Weaponmasters/Demons: Probably the hardest to find; most Dark Fortresses are multitowered making it very difficult to find the leaders as there are several multifloored towers with twisty passages. Generally they will be in the tallest tower but this is not a definite fact. Sadly, they move around sometimes and are very difficult to find. The Demons are only in the Capital while weaponmasters exist in every Dark Fortress as local leaders. The goblins often have fun Quests as they generally seem to be at war with other civs.<br />
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Kobold Weaponmasters: Often hanging around the middle of a kobold cave camp; however, these guys cannot talk to you and as a result cannot give you a Quest (although you can use them to train your Sword skill)<br />
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=== Finding quest locations ===<br />
After receiving a [[quest]], you will be able to track its location using the {{key|Q}}uest log. Initially it will just give you the location on the {{key|T}}ravel map, though a lesser-known feature is its use in finding the cave entry (or other such target) once you're already in the [[Site map|local map]]. Bring up the quest log again, highlight the quest objective you're after, and {{key|z}}oom to it. It should then provide you with a local map of your current area, complete with a 3x3 box of flashing squares. This box indicates the general location of the cave's mouth. You'll still have to do some searching, but at least it's narrowed down for you. You can bring up this map at any time that you're in the local area of a quest objective.<br />
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The compass on the left of the screen will also greatly help you in finding the entrance; the direction indicated should place you within one screen's distance of the entrance before it turns into "---".<br />
<br />
=== Visiting abandoned fortresses ===<br />
If you start an adventure in a world with one or more abandoned [[Fortress|fortresses]], you can take your adventurer to see the sites of your previous endeavors. When you find one of your old [[Fortress|fortresses]], you will find that everything is a mess. Items are scattered about, things are smashed up and there are probably new hostile inhabitants that you will need to fend off. Visiting your old [[Fortress|fortresses]] might prove to be rewarding, since you can find [[armor]] and [[weapons]] you made (if you made any). The best thing to be found in your [[fortress]] would probably be any left behind [[Legendary artifact|artifact]] [[weapon]] or [[armor]]. This is also probably the best (and only?) way to get [[Legendary artifact|artifact-quality]] [[weapons]] and [[armor]].<br />
<br />
Also remember to check out any [[Engraving#Engravings|engravings]] you made while in [[fortress mode]]. When checking out [[Engraving#Engravings|engravings]] in adventure mode, they reveal a lot more specific information about the event that is engraved.<br />
<br />
=== Combat ===<br />
== The Weapons ==<br />
Weapons are basically divided into ax, sword, spear, pike, mace, whip, bow and hammer, with various versions of these taking up the gray area. Swords are your jack of all trades weapon, doing reasonable slashing damage. They come in short, long and two handed varieties, with the two handed doing the most damage and the short doing the least. Axes are similar to swords and do slashing damage as well. They come in 3 types, battle ax, great ax and halberd. The battle ax does slightly less damage than the long sword while the halberd does the same damage as a two-handed sword. The Great ax is generally too large to use, but it does slightly more than the halberd in damage. The spear does piercing damage and is ideal for damaging internal organs and causing heavy bleeding and unconsciousness. It has no variations. The spear is much more likely to become stuck in its target, which can be a great benefit if used right and a curse if not. The Pike is, for all intents and purposes, the same as a spear. The mace and the hammer are generally the same thing, simply a big metal thing to club your enemies over the head. As expected, they do high damage but their bludgeoning attacks tend to be slower and less effective , if more hilarious, ways to dispatch your foes. The Maul, a hammer, is the highest damaging weapon in the game. The last weapon is the whip, which does gore damage. Its relatively weak but has its uses. The bow throws arrows, which act as tiny spears. Basically, a bow and crossbow is like having a very slow, long range spear. <br />
<br />
== Weapon Tactics ==<br />
Sword: Once again, your general fall back weapon. It’s good against almost everything, if not being that great against almost anything. Works well against both living and non-living enemies as it actively dismembers them. <br />
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Ax: Pretty much the same as a sword, though some people believe it hacks off limbs more commonly. Good against organics, acceptable against anything else. <br />
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Spear/Pike: Ok, here’s where we get a little bit more advanced. The spear is most effective against organic creatures because of two abilities, pierce damage and stick ins. Piercing damage does major harm to internal organs, causing pain, bleeding, vomiting, unconsciousness and death. Stick-ins are when the weapon becomes stuck in the target, allowing it to be twisted. Twisting increases bleeding and causes extreme pain. Because of these two factors spears and pikes are ideal for single combat against organic targets. The are less effective against multiple enemies (because of the stick-ins lowering kill-to-turn ratios) and are even less effective against non-organic enemies (ie bronze colossus).<br />
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Mace/hammer: These weapons rely on their ability to turn your opponent into a tasty pulp through repeated wacking. They break bones and bruise flesh, meaning that aside from a critical hit they generally are less likely to mortal wounds quickly. They are great for crippling organics and non-organics alike, but when it comes to a swift, efficient death they are generally less than perfect. The exception to this is high strength and mace/hammer skill which allows for instant head crushing. <br />
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Whip: The whip uses gore damage, which is similar to a cross between slash and pierce. It can cut off limbs but is more likely to slice up organs and cause extreme pain and bleeding. A few hits will generally render an opponent unconscious and perhaps even badly injured enough to eventually bleed to death. However, the whip is a slow outright killer, sometimes needing dozens of blows to actually finish its target.<br />
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Bow (and arrows): Arrows are much like spears, because of their piercing damage and all the benefits it has. The benefits it has however are its range and its ability to target multiple enemies. They are most effective against organic targets. You, unfortunately, are organic, which makes archers one of your biggest problems. <br />
<br />
== Non-weapon tactics ==<br />
<br />
Besides your weapons you have two other major forms of attack: Wrestling and throwing.<br />
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Wrestling: Wrestling can be performed by standing next to an enemy and pressing (Shift+a) and then (enter) to switch to wrestling. You can wrestle any enemy, however things such as wolves, bears and big cats do not allow you to perform the more advanced moves. After catching hold of a body part you can perform a lock, which allows you to further sprain, break or cripple an opponent. With a free hand you can perform even more advanced moves, such as gouging out eyes or stealing weapons. To gouge eyes grab a head with an open hand, to steal a weapon, grab the weapon and then check your inventory with (Shift+I). press the button corresponding to the weapon and then press a to gain possession of it. <br />
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One of the best tactics for fighting high level weapon masters is to either break his weapon hand or to steal his weapon, essentially making him no more dangerous than a normal peasant.<br />
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Throwing: Throwing is the skill of…well basically throwing shit. And vomit. And bugs and spears and rocks so on. Just about anything can be thrown, sometimes with devastating results. While it seems like weapons (and arrows) tend to be more reliable in their damage causing abilities when thrown, just about anything can potentially be lethal. Picking up a worm and hucking it right through a dragon’s skull is not only possible, but has been done on multiple occasions. A warrior with a high throw skill is often times more dangerous with an arrow than a trained archer is. <br />
<br />
<br />
=== Wounds ===<br />
You or your enemy are going to get hurt in the course of your adventures and its pretty useful to know exactly what’s happening when you are. Here’s a quick guide to the various aspects of wounds.<br />
<br />
== Wound indicators ==<br />
Wounds come in several colors and are indicated on the status screen (press z to see your own status screen while pressing (l) to look at your enemy’s). The status screen will list your body parts in different colors to indicate how damaged they are.<br />
White-unhurt and feeling fine<br />
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Light gray-slightly damaged, think a nasty scrape or cut.<br />
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Brownish yellow-moderately damaged, such as a mild sprain or the like<br />
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Yellow-Broken. Applied to joints it means literally broken, while applied to upper and lower body it generally means organ damage.<br />
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Red-Badly damaged. If you got this then chances are you’re in bad shape. Severely broken bones or ruptured organs. If this status is affecting anything even remotely vital you’re more than likely on your way to the grave.<br />
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Gray-lopped off or cut out. This is when you completely lose a body part. Effects include massive pain and bleeding along with ruining your promising juggling career. For some body parts (Noticeably the eye) it will not recover - if not a very long time - and will cause constant pain and unconsciousness, if so then consider restarting in a previous save or completely because fast travelling will not heal it.<br />
<br />
== Wound effects == <br />
Hands: Damage to the fingers or wrists can cause you to drop your held items, but usually only with yellow level damage. Losing a hand entirely gives you a serious handicap, which will more than likely lead to [[fun]] in the future.<br />
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Feet: Causes slowed movement and falling. If removed can cause permanent slowed movement. Removing both can cause a continuous on ground effect.<br />
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Legs: Similar to feet, though often has increased bleeding and pain effects. Loss of one will usually result in death by bleed out. Even if you survive, you’re more than likely on your way to death. Severed legs do make a lovely club though. <br />
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Arms: Damage to almost any part of the arm can cause items to be dropped. Loss of an arm is perhaps even worse than the loss of a leg, due to the loss of weapon and wrestling capabilities. Loss of both arms is both tragic and hilarious. <br />
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Head: Contains the brain, ears, mouth, nose, eyes and throat. Ears, nose and mouth are officially useless and can be cut off in an effort to appear cool. The brain, eyes and throat are however less disposable. Damage to the eyes results in loss of vision, permanent if the eyes are removed, and terrible pain. It's usually not possible to bleed to death from eye loss, though. The throat is highly sensitive and damage causes both extreme bleeding and suffocation effects. The brain is the most important thing you’ve got, and damage to it is an almost instant death. Any wound it receives will more than likely cause instant unconsciousness and severe bleeding. <br />
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Upper body: Contains the heart, lungs, upper spine, liver and kidneys. Both the kidneys and liver have similar effects; namely, heavy bleeding and pain upon injury. The spine causes nervous system damage, which can have several, sometimes permanent effects. The lungs control breathing, so piercing them can cause suffocation. The heart is the main organ of the circulatory system and damage to it is almost always fatal through bleeding. <br />
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Lower body: Contains various organs like the stomach and spleen, all of which have the same effect of bleeding, pain and nausea. Nausea leads to vomiting, which makes the wounded creature unable to attack. There is also the lower spine, which has similar effects to the upper spine.<br />
<br />
== Attack types and their wounds ==<br />
Pierce-dangerous to organic creatures, you included. Often times objects with the pierce effect will become lodged in their target. Removing the weapon from its lodged position causes both increased pain and bleeding but often times can alleviate certain symptoms the piercing has caused.<br />
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Bludgeon: Breaks bones and cripples joints. Generally less dangerous to the internal organs than other damage. The danger comes from its ability to incapacitate you and then turn your head to mush.<br />
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Slash: Dangerous for its ability to sever limbs and cause bleeding. Beware its habit of decapitation.<br />
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Gore: Shreds internal organs, causing all sorts of nasty side effects. Almost worthless on non-organic enemies but can cause severe problems for you living sorts.<br />
<br />
== Dealing with wounds ==<br />
In adventure mode your wounds will heal if you travel (shift + t) and they’ll recover just about anything except a lopped off limb. If you can’t travel the best thing to do is try and run from battle if you’re badly wounded, since running will give you time to stop bleeding and suppress the pain. Beware dropping your weapon and make sure to pick it up before you make a run for it. If an arrow strikes you in the chest its best to leave it there while an arrow to the extremities can be removed. <br />
<br />
=== <s>Living Shields</s> Companions ===<br />
<br />
If you recruit some new members to your party, you'll not only gain extra damage output, you'll also have someone else to take the damage instead of you!<br />
<br />
When you first start out, the easiest <s>human shields</s> friends to recruit are the drunks. They are found in human towns inside the [[tavern]] with the [[Mayor]] (the building you start in if you play a human). They will gladly come with you and block some blows for you. Drunks will usually attempt low-skill [[wrestling]] and (mostly) damage-less punches. Don't expect them to last long when you meet that [[Giant]] you are supposed to kill. Drunks are much rarer in the current version of the game, so it's unlikely that you'll find one.<br />
<br />
To recruit someone into your party, press tal{{k|k}}, move the cursor over them, and press {{k|enter}}. Then in the conversation that follows, simply pick 'Join' from the list of options to ask them to accompany you. [[Children]], the Mayor, and [[Guard]]s don't want any part of this silly adventuring malarkey, but the occasional peasant will be bored enough to join you.<br />
<br />
More detailed searches of towns of various races can yield other adventurers with some actual skills. The generally have a single weapon skill ([[Maceman]], [[Swordsman]], [[Spearman]] and so on) and some armor appropriate to the wealth of the town they were occupying. You will also find Guards around towns, and while they are combat-capable they will not shirk their duty in order to accompany you on your adventures.<br />
<br />
Some otherwise eligible companions may rebuff your offer of becoming a living shield for one of the following reasons:<br />
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If the prospective meat shield considers himself more skilled than you are, he may rebuff you with, "Ha! Such enthusiasm from one such as yourself."<br />
This can be remedied by training your skills until he judges you a bit more skillful than he is.<br />
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Another reason for someone to refuse to die protecting you is that you already have the maximum of 12 companions, and they will rebuff you by asking, "With a band so large, what share of the glory would I have?"<br />
But look at it this way, at least your total party size is 13 when you count yourself! Now that's lucky!<br />
<br />
Another possiblity is to asked your old, retired adventurers for help. They'll never say no unless your party is too big and they should be pretty capible since you trained them. <br />
<br />
==== The Perils of the Wild ====<br />
<br />
{{d for dwarf}}<br />
<br />
You’ll face many creatures on your travels, several mega and semi-mega bests included if you’re taking quests. Heres a quick look at the more dangerous beasts (sentient or not) that you’ll meet.<br />
<br />
=== The Mega and Semi-mega beasts and the sentient races ===<br />
<br />
Bronze Colossus: Probably one of the hardest beasts to combat due to its massive strength, impressive natural armor and complete ignorance of pain, fear and bleeding. Bronze Colossi are basically walking, dwarf crushing statues that will never stop unless beheaded or outright obliterated. They have no organs and do not bleed, making them impossible to knock unconscious. Their immense strength makes them unlikely to give in to wrestling moves (though if you can manage to lock and break a limb it will snap off rather than just becoming useless.) Because of these resistances all you can really do is hack / shoot and hope that it dies before you do. <br />
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Dragon: The main danger of these beasts is their massive fire breath, which can consume dozens of spaces. A high block still is recommended before you fight them. A spear is a great weapon here, as it allows you to potentially knock them unconscious within a few turns. Arrows are also good, though staying at a distance can be dangerous because of the fire breath. Beware their bite, as it can cause major damage. <br />
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Hydra: a joke really, as It seems to lack the regenerative powers of its mythological cousin. It has 7 heads, but damage to one is as serious as damaging the head of a one headed beast. More than likely you’ll have it unconscious in a few turns regardless of what you use.<br />
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Titan: basically an organic bronze colossus. It is essentially a larger, stronger human, with all the weaknesses being the same. Piercing and goring damage can quickly weaken and incapacitate these beasts, but keep an eye out for its wrestling, which can cause some bad joint damage. <br />
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Cyclops: A weaker, smaller titan with one eye. Eye+arrow=win<br />
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Ettin: A two headed giant. Basically a stronger human, usually unarmed. Just hack it until it dies.<br />
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Giant: Just a giant human like thing. Stab it in the neck or break its limbs for massive damage.<br />
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Minotaur: Only thing really dangerous about this guy is his horns. Pretty good wrestler but nothing that should give a reasonably prepared adventurer any problems.<br />
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Humans: Should you wander into battle against a human force its in your best interest to disable their archers first. The only real danger humans have is their numbers and their use of items. Disarming or crippling dangerous guards or weapon maters is highly recommended, since as soon as they are weaponless they are essentially as good as dead.<br />
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Elves: They have wooden equipment, making them laughable most of the time. Once again, the only real threat is their archers and even then they are less dangerous than humans. Elves are generally known for being annoying dicks so its recommended that you slaughter the lot. If you are an elf its recommended that you have tons of fun. <br />
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Dwarves: Their advantage is their steel weaponry and crossbows. Their disadvantage is that their mountain homes are generally so large that you’ll only rarely fight more than one or two. Disable their weapon masters and archers then throw their own axes at them. Juggle their heads in front of their children.<br />
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Goblins: Like weaker dwarves, with less armor and less skill. They have a feeble sense of morals, meaning that they will only sometimes attack you after you hurt one of their friends. You can basically cleave right through them with ease. <br />
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<br />
=== Other Humanoids ===<br />
<br />
<br />
These are creatures that in shape resemble something human, but have no society. <br />
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Antman: A half man half ant hybrid which lives in chasms. They have higher natural armor than a man, but rarely use tools. As long as you’re armed they should pose no problem. <br />
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Batman: Half man, half bat that lives in caves and chasms. They can fly and use weapons, though they rarely do. Attacks with punches and bites; the bites are the most potentially damaging because they cause gore damage. He is the night.<br />
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Blizzard man: Frosty’s asshole brother. Blizzard men are creatures of pure ice that strangely still have organs. They can bite and punch, with biting doing the most damage. They will melt in normal temperatures so they are only found in freezing areas. <br />
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Dark gnome: Mischievous mountain folk who enjoy hard liquor. They‘re basically dwarfs but smaller and no where near as dangerous. Its rare that you’ll even find them, but if you do they should pose no threat to you. They punch and bite but neither is noticeable. <br />
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Fire Imp: Little gremlin like things that are either constantly on fire or made of fire. They’re found only in subterranean lava pits, meaning that you’ll have to go searching for them if you’re ever gonna see one. They only bite (does burn damage rather than gore), but their real danger comes from their ability to set you on fire. Ranged combat is recommended, though darting forward, attacking and then jumping away might be effective if you have no other choice. They can also breathe fire at you though, so its again recommended to stay back.<br />
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Firemen: Like the fire imps, but better. They have the bronze colossus syndrome of having no organs, not bleeding, feeling pain or being able to have weapons stuck in them. They too can set you ablaze, but they’re much harder to kill before they do it. Bludgeoning can break and hence sever their limbs. Recommended that you fight from a distance. Luckily these things only live in underground lava, so you’ll never find them without going into very specific places. <br />
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Frogman: No not those things Race Banon was always killing, but half man half frogs that live in underground water. They can’t equip weapons and are very small, making them almost completely non-threatening. <br />
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Iron man: Millionaire Tony Stark puts on his…oops wrong one. Ironmen are like firemen but less dangerous because they aren’t on fire. They are basically smaller, less dangerous Bronze Colossi. When killed they leave a valuable iron statue. They appear only in chasms.<br />
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Leechman: Half man, Half leech, all sexy. They have no bones, but curiously do have arms (but no legs). They can suck blood, but considering they have no bones and every blow will almost always strike a vital organ its a lot more likely that blood will be coming out of it than you.<br />
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Lizardman: Half man, half lizard; lives in underground water. Punches and bites along with the ability to use items. Similar to many of the other half breeds, but with one notable exception. He’s a lizard. <br />
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Magma man: A man made of pure magma. Everything about this guy is the exact same as the fire man, with the exception that he can’t breathe fire. This makes him less dangerous at a distance. Stay back and throw stuff at him.<br />
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Merpersons: Tiny little mermaids and mermen. Not dangerous at all, and relatively rare to boot. They can equip items but you’ll probably never see one anyway.<br />
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Mountain Gnome: The same as a Dark Gnome, but less evil. Same things apply here.<br />
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Mud man: Like Ironman but made of mud. Can’t equip items and only has a weak punch as a form of attack, making it about as threatening as a mudpie. Lives in underground water.<br />
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Ogre: The middle ground between giant and human. Their punches and bites do a surprisingly small amount of damage, though they can use weapons. As with any big, organic moron its recommended to try and damage their organs to quickly incapacitate and kill them. Piercing damage is very useful. <br />
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Olmman: Half man, half blind cave salamander. Think Gollum but even more messed up and without eyes. Their bites are surprisingly strong. Found only in subterranean water and even then only rarely.<br />
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Ratman: Seems to attack with 4 turtle men cronies, who are surprisingly good warriors. But seriously, they’re about as weak as actual rats. They only come from chasms so don’t worry about them too much.<br />
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Slugman: Do I even have to say? it’s a dang slug man, do you think its dangerous? Its not. Just stab it in its deformed face. <br />
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Snail man: Think slug man, but with a shell that doesn’t actually offer any protection. <br />
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Snakemen: The only real threat these guys pose is their ability to inject poison by biting. If it does bite you its your best bet to try and quickly kill the snake man before his poison takes effect, since it can incapacitate you. <br />
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Troglodyte: Small, reptilian creatures that live underground. Not dangerous unless they attack in swarms and even then they are easily beaten by even a novice adventurer. Use organic combating techniques to deal with them. <br />
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Troll: There’s no real difference between this thing and an ogre. Kill them both the same way. <br />
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Werewolf: Or wolfman. Attacks alone and only bites with a goring attack. Bite can be dangerous but the fact that there is only one of him makes it a lot easier to fight. Fun to wrestle for experience.<br />
<br />
=== Wildlife ===<br />
<br />
Here’s the rundown of all the mundane beasties that you’ll run into <br />
<br />
Beak dog: Basically what happens when parrot gets combined with Velociraptors. They’re a little smaller than a man but quick and use their beaks and claws effectively. Try not to get caught in the center of a group of them, backpedal and cut them down as they give chase.<br />
<br />
Black Bear: These will only ambush you one on one, and given their relative small size and forgettable strength they should pose little threat unless you’re completely unskilled and unarmed. Because there’s only one they can be useful for wrestling practice since you can focus all your attention on them.<br />
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Bonobo: I’ve never seen one myself, though I’ve been told they’re ape like things. Considering their squishy organs it would be best to stab them in the groin.<br />
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Camel: Its…a camel. You’ll probably never see one. <br />
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Carp: BEHOLD, FOR ARMOK BREATHED LIFE INTO THE VERY ROCKS IN THE RIVERS AND COMMANDED THEM TO GO FORTH AND MUTILATE RANDOM PASSERS BY. TO HIS DWARVEN FOLLOWERS HE EXPLAINED IT THUS, “F*** YOU”-the tome of Armok, chapter 2. In all seriousness though, while they may be freaking fresh water sharks in the fortress mode, carp aren’t too dangerous in adventure mode. Their biggest advantage is their environment, being water which you can not breathe. <br />
<br />
Cat: IT’S A KITTY! Anyways, you’ll almost always have too many of these things in fortress and you’ll never see them in adventure. Even if you did, what would you do with them? You wouldn’t hurt them would you?<br />
<br />
Cougar: Like a kitty, but bigger. Cougars are good wrestling practice and good shield training as well, what with the fact that Cougars suck so hard. If you get killed by this thing it was either insanely lucky or you have no arms.<br />
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Cow: It’s a cow. Kill it for free hamburgers. I’m actually not even sure if you can find the dang things in adventure mode.<br />
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Deer: You might see these running away from you in the woods. They’re harmless but good wrestling practice if you feel like strangling a defenseless animal. <br />
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Dog: I’ve never seen one of these in adventure mode, but its pretty obvious what they are huh?<br />
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Donkey: Pulls wagons and things like that. You might see one but its not really worth attacking them. <br />
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Elephants: In prior versions elephants were murderous berserkers, but thankfully they’ve been made a little more realistic. They’re just as big and strong as you’d expect, but won’t bother you unless you walk up and stab’em a few times. Reasonably dangerous, so don’t poke them unless you’re ready.<br />
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Elk: Much like deer, though a little bigger and usually solitary<br />
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Fox: Another small animal that you’ll most likely never see.<br />
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Giant bat: Bigger than a minotaur and more dangerous at times. Often encountered in low visibility areas where they can take you by surprise. Its best to avoid caves until you’re confidant in your blocking and combat skills. <br />
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Giant Cave Spiders: You’ll only rarely encounter these, because of their limited environment. You’ll know they’re near from the webs which hang around their homes. They are NOT to be meddled with. First and foremost, they do not feel pain and will never stop unless killed. Their high number of legs makes it likely that you’ll pointlessly hack away at the limbs while the mouth bites your head in half. Beyond these aspects the spider uses poison and sticky webs to ensnare you. Your best bet is to throw/ shoot it from a distance. If you can’t do that, use other piercing or goring weapons to damage its organs. Despite its ignorance toward pain, it still bleeds like any other animal, so a pierced heart is very effective. <br />
<br />
Giant cave swallow: Pretty much harmless things, just big birds. If they harass you, break their wings and strangle them to death for wrestling points. <br />
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Giant Eagle: A major problem in fortress mode is little more than a pesky annoyance in adventure mode. If they are giving you trouble though, attempt to wrestle and break one of their wings. This should ground them and make them a much easier target. <br />
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Grizzly Bear: A little bigger than the Black Bear, though basically the same. Good for both wrestle and shield points. If they’re really giving you a hard time try catching both hands and its throat. This should not only make it impossible for it to attack, but also give you wrestle points. <br />
<br />
Groundhog: Little rodent thingies. Zombie ground hogs are useful to strangle for wrestling experience. Besides that they’re only really good as golf balls for your putter (read Morningstar) <br />
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Hoary Marmot: A tiny forest dwelling creature. As harmless as it is delicious.<br />
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Horse: A beast of burden sometimes seen in human towns. They have an odd habit of going rogue and kicking children to death. Not to mention they’re some how smart enough to pull crossbow bolts out of their own legs. May cause random insanity if they attack a influential citizen. <br />
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Naked mole dog: Think enormous naked mole rat. Unless you’re both unarmed and unskilled these things are basically very bleedy shrubbery to hack your way through. <br />
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Mountain Goat: it’s a goat, that lives in the mountains. Likes to kill goblins and its not uncommon to find a few legends about goblin slaying goats.<br />
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Mule: Like a horse, but more inbred. Chances are you’ll never see them.<br />
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Musk Ox: Beasts of burden used by elves. Another thing you won’t see. <br />
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Pike: The fish, not the weapon. They’re nothing close to the carp and should be little more than particularly squishy speed bumps to you.<br />
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Raccoon: Forest rodents that you’ll never see. Make a nifty hat. <br />
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Rhesus Macaque :A nettlesome trickster in fortress mode, they are almost never seen in adventure mode. Even if you see them they’re very skittish and a single blow will send them running. Give’em a good strangle if you can catch one.<br />
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Unicorn: The random homicidal tendencies of the horse mixed with a dash of magic and a horn. They’re very aggressive for some reason, though not too hard to bring down. Watch out for that horn and stay away until you’re at least competent. <br />
<br />
Whale: Big aquatic beast. Not dangerous unless in skeletal mode. <br />
<br />
Wolf: And last but not least, the humble and numerous wolf. This is what is gonna be attacking you from now till forever. They’re dangerous the first few ambushes, but they quickly become nothing but barely noticed time wasters. Great for training up armor and shield, as they attack in packs and hence hit you many times, often with no effect. Early on, just be careful not to get caught in the middle of a pack and you’ll be fine.<br />
<br />
=== Modifiers ===<br />
Zombie: Zombie animals are just like their normal counterparts, with a few major exceptions. Firstly, they are no longer effected by pain or bleeding and their organs no longer matter. They are also much slower. This combination of increased difficulty in killing and decreased speed about evens out their threat level. Not too dangerous, unless the creature they’re based on is already strong. <br />
<br />
Skeletal: All of the advantages of Zombie with none of the bad effects. Skeletal creatures are all immune to pain and do not bleed, but they remain just as quick as their living counterparts. Large skeletal beasts, such as dragons or whales are truly a terror to face.<br />
<br />
== Avoid the impossible ==<br />
Some things are harder than others. Decide for yourself if this is due to unbalancing of the game, realism or simply to add to the variety of challenges.<br />
<br />
=== [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelob Shelob]'s in-laws, aka Giant Cave Spiders ===<br />
Unless you are a legendary or better (ok, its not possible to go beyond legendary..) bow-/crossbowman, you should at all costs AVOID giant cave spiders (Unless, of course, you enjoy [[Fun]])!! They shoot a web at you, making you immobilized while they rip your limbs off one by one. Then when you finally break free from the web, and can attack again, you've probably lost your arms while lying on the floor and the spider is about to throw you by your head up into the roof. Cave Spiders bleed to death eventually, but they know no fear nor pain, meaning they will not black out even if you manage to inflict serious damage including severed limbs. They are also capable of surviving red-level wounds to the body and legs and multiple severed limbs for long enough to eviscerate an adventurer. Leave these for the living shields to deal with while you slip out the other way, ideally from the cave entirely, never to return.<br />
<br />
Even if you are a legendary projectile weapon user, reconsider attacking a giant cave spider because in the tight quarters of a cave you might be shooting it from stealth when a giant rat or something similarly stupid walks next to you and triggers your loss of cover. The spider would then punish your arrogance immensely.<br />
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''Note'': If absolutely required they ARE killable, but you need luck, and lots of it. Adept swordsman + Proficient [[shield]] user + Skilled ambusher manages to sneak up on it and then counterstrike + block does the job. In a suicide swordsman test run I had dethoraxation (decapitation for spiders) = instakill on the first counterstrike, second GCS got a mortal wound before it webbed me and bled to death while trying to chew through me, only broke sword wielding hand and leg. Third spider broke my shield hand and had me mortally wounded in no time after that, although I eventually killed it after unwebbing myself. That makes it ~2.5/3 chances to win, not bad for a rookie. And I was healed after each successful spider kill.<br />
<br />
''To conclude'': Basically, as long as your shield wielding hand is intact (and shield skill is high of course) you have pretty good chances of survival in 1 on 1, otherwise you're dead. Any extra armor (in my case exceptional full plate + normal armor skill) also helps in glancing off their bites.<br />
<br />
Another interesting thing is that before fighting one of them I threw a spear at it and it lodged in the wound, and it seems that the spider has a priority to break my grip as it repeatedly successfully broke my grip every time(that happened ~5-6 times in a row) I grabbed the lodged spear. That points to a possible distraction for a GCS in case of soloing it.<br />
<br />
=== Arrows ===<br />
Don't take on quests where you need to kill elite bow-/crossbowmen! Generally, avoid flying arrows! Why? Because bow/crossbowmen have the tendency to see farther than you can. They are therefore able to fire at you from beyond your sight, making it hard to see where the arrow(s) are coming from. You may therefor end up chasing the shooter in the wrong direction, giving the shooter even MORE time to turn you into a pin-cushion. Of course, this is only the case if you manage to survive the first 3-4 arrows, because arrows are BAD for anyone but the shooter's health. Piercing hits like arrows are much more likely to damage internal organs, and while you might shrug off a moderate blunt hit to the chest a similar piercing hit could directly damage one or both lungs or your heart and instantly kill you.<br />
<br />
One extremely useful survival tip is to immediately drop prone (with the s key) as soon as you notice you are being shot at. Prone targets move more slowly, but seem to be much harder to hit with ranged attacks than standing ones. This is also worth noting to avoid wasting ammunition on fallen targets.<br />
<br />
Another solid solution is to get behind something as quickly as possible and try sneaking. Even when caught in the open cover as flimsy as a single tree may be sufficient to begin sneaking. Sneaking around trees can also sometimes act as a compass for determining the direction of the shooter. By checking when and where sneaking is possible, the approach vector of any given observer or close cluster of observers can be extrapolated.<br />
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Finally, since archers are generally sentient, most (besides mayors) can be killed in their sleep.<br />
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If you do accept a quest against an elite bowman or crossbowman and manage to reach melee range, immediately grapple its weapon, ideally by dropping yours and pulling the weapon out of its grasp entirely before throwing it away.<br />
<br />
== Training yourself ==<br />
Gaining stats ([[Attributes|strength, agility, toughness]]) helps a lot when fighting. How to best train yourself?<br />
<br />
==== Throwing ====<br />
To find rocks simply hit {{k|l}} and look at any rock coulored tiles some of these will be simply called by the rock name (e.g. [[limestone]]) and cannot be picked up but some will be called pebbles. Rocks are practically free ammo. When you find a tile with [[pebbles]], pick up a lot of them (there are infinite rocks), and start throwing them. You can simply throw them at the tile you are standing at. Every throw will gain you 30 points toward the skill "Throwing", and will after a while increase your stats (Strength, agility, toughness). You will need to throw 600 rocks to reach legendary Thrower (starting with no skill).<br />
<br />
For best efficiency, drop all of your gear (including held but not worn items) and empty out your backpack near your throwing location. This is done in order to keep your inventory simple for the rock-throwing portion. Then pick up a ton of rocks by pressing {{k|g}}-{{k|a}} over and over- ideally one would pick up 600 rocks at a single time, but you will probably get bored before then. Then, mash {{k|t}}-{{k|a}}-{{k|enter}} over and over until all of your rocks are thrown back at the floor. If you are not a legendary Thrower after this, repeat. Afterwards, remember to pick up your gear and re-fill your backpack.<br />
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''Alternate way'' : It could be difficult to repeat the {{k|t}}-{{k|a}}-{{k|enter}} sequence without making mistake. So you can just alternate {{k|t}}-{{k|enter}} quickly : The first {{k|t}} will open the inventory, the second will chose the rock which is in "t" position, and {{k|enter}} will throw it. In the same fashion, when collecting rock, prefer a tile where the rock is on "b" position : If you quickly alternate {{k|g}} and {{k|a}}, sometime you will open the [a]nnouncement panel, which will slow you down. Another solution to this is to switch the ''pick up'' and ''announcements'' keys, so you can press {{k|a}} to pick up an item and {{k|a}} to pick up rock.<br />
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Thrown objects are also a cheap way to injure enemies before they reach you if you are a melee fighter.<br />
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You can also throw other stuff you find, like flies, beetles, worms, and even vomit or [[sand]]. If you have a tendency to chop off enemy limbs, you can even throw these limbs. Killing zombies with their companion's severed heads and feet is always good for a laugh. [[iron_man|Iron men]] are fun, because they leave behind a nice [[statue]] for the taking which can be thrown. Arrows and weapons seem to be particularly deadly when thrown because they deal the same damage as they would in melee, including piercing or slashing damage type, but even the most innocuous or silly items can come up with a kill.<br />
<br />
Most thrown objects deal blunt type damage, so they will break and bruise limbs, but arrows and weapons can deal their normal damage types. This is particularly useful to consider when trying for a desperate one-shot kill on a [[Giant Cave Spider]] that's about to web you and shred you into little chunks, as piercing attacks like thrown arrows and [[spear]]s damage internal organs (making them more likely to get a one-hit kill, as an enemy can live through having the outside of their head moderately damaged but not from having the same amount of damage done to their brain) and thrown axes or swords can sever body parts and leave deep gashes (leading to massive bleeding or slit throats).<br />
<br />
==== Bow/Crossbow-skill ====<br />
This skill trains in the same fashion as throwing. You gain skill per shot, not per hit. This is a more expensive skill to train than throwing because you need to buy (or find) arrows/bolts, but is also a much more deadly skill. Fired projectiles do much more damage than thrown ones, and are also piercing type weapons which can do crippling damage to internal organs. The majority of thrown weapons are blunt and will do much more superficial bruising and bone-breaking damage- at best, a lucky hit will break someone's spine or damage internal organs to a small degree. Shooting arrows at enemies is fun, because it is very efficient and will destroy enemies quite easily. <br />
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Sadly, this also goes for enemy bow/crossbowmen. You will often be shot in the leg and crippled by an enemy you can't even see, who will then proceed to shoot you in the face until you die - which won't be very long afterwards unless you manage to find something to hide behind. This is somewhat avoidable - train in sneaking to avoid being seen by enemies that could otherwise perforate your skin, and get a good shield and armor to better keep arrows. (See below for both skills).<br />
<br />
Make sure to take extra <s>meat shields</s> companions along with you if you're planning on using ranged weapons, it'll take time before you level the appropriate skill to bash things with your weapon in melee so it's imperative you stay out of the fighting till then. Drunks are particularly useful here, as they love to dive on things and collapse into a massive wrestling pile which you can take pot-shots at. Don't worry, you can't hit your guys. Not that you'd care.<br />
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Metal bolts are quite heavy and expensive, so if you wish to train in this skill it would probably be a good idea to raid an old fortress of yours first and get all the wooden/bone bolts there.<br />
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==== Wrestling ====<br />
Since melee weapon skills are hard train because not every hit gives points towards the skill, why not train your [[wrestling]]? When you are alone with a unconscious enemy, why not break some limbs before finishing it off? Monsters often try to break your arms and legs, so having a bit of skill in wrestling will help break those locks a lot, and breaking that legendary swordsmans sword hand at the beginning of the fight will make him laughably weak. Also, training wrestling is a quicker way to better stats (strength, agility, toughness) because gain points per move instead of per "hit". Wrestling also handles dodging skill which is very handy to have.<br />
<br />
A good way to train wrestling is to find an undead region on the map- preferably Sinister if you remember the map layout from Fortress Mode. Obtain a pack of zombie herbivores therein, preferably of small size- do not attempt this with zombie [[elephants]]. Slaughter every zombie in the vicinity of this pack of herbivores but the one that you think is the most crippled, making sure to pick one with a throat to leave alive.<br />
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Press {{k|c}} and change your combat preferences from Strike to Close Combat. This means that your default attack when you press towards an enemy to making a random wrestling move, or the continuation (joint lock, break) or (strangle) if you have a break/strangle-able area held.<br />
<br />
Then, walk over, and grab the zombie's neck (yes, with your weapon or shield- it is quite optional to drop what you're holding) and begin strangulation by holding the direction the zombie is strangling in. You will make several strangles per second and gain approximately 15 XP (tentative measure) per strangulation. Zombies cannot die from this, so you will earn enough XP to become legendary within a few minutes. <br />
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When your character becomes tired, break off from strangling and walk it off- you become less tired by ambling about aimlessly. If you become too hungry or thirsty to continue, just run away or destroy the zombie, {{k|T}}ravel, and then repeat after moving a square and back.<br />
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This can also be done at ruins, but you run the risk of weapon-carrying enemies and especially weaponmaster quest-zombies. In an undead ruin, there are also far, far more monsters in the area compared to hunting down a pack of undead animals.<br />
<br />
Alternatively, wait until nightfall, and wrestle a sleeping enemy. Sleeping enemies are unconscious, and cannot detect you if you sneak. The autocombat will cause your adventurer to break limbs, grab and release bits of clothing, and other nonlethal attacks. Occasionally random chance will cause a chokehold; simply step back a tile and then resume. In this manner, you can train wrestling extremely quickly without the dangers of wandering in an undead zone.<br />
<br />
Yet another alternative is presented by fish. No harmful wrestling moves can be performed on them so cornering a carp, tigerfish, or milkfish will raise wrestling quickly, while training swimming. Avoid hippopotamus infested waters.<br />
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A final option presents itself when exploring caves, there are many weak enemies to be found here, choose one (say a ratman) and walk up to it, grabbing it perform a takedown. Before it can stand up grab its arm and try to break it, as soon as it gets up perform another takedown, continue to break all the joints in both of your <s>toy's</s> <s>victim's</s> opponent's arms and then move on to legs, finally gouge out its eyes and begin strangling it to death. This gives you plenty of wrestling exp with very little risk as the enemy will only get in one or two strikes before being taken down after which it will prioritize standing back up.<br />
<br />
==== Swimming ====<br />
Having no swimming skill in Adventure Mode is not a particularly good thing if you intend to go near water. Anyone with no swimming skill who falls or is pulled/pushed into water will begin to drown immediately if it is over 4/7 deep, and will also be unable to climb out of water this deep - usually resulting in instant death.<br />
<br />
To voluntarily jump into a pond or [[river]] you have to {{k|Alt}}-move off the edge of the land. This will present you with a choice of walking out into the open space above the water (immediately and unsurprisingly followed by a one-story fall) or moving directly into the water. To get back out, {{k|Alt}}-move into the riverbank/pond edge.<br />
<br />
As long as you have at least some Swimming skill, you will be able to move around in deeper water and will gain Swimming skill for every tile you move. Without Swimming, you will have to find depth 4 water to voluntarily paddle about in with your water wings on for your first skill points. Any deeper and you'll start to drown, any shallower and you can't swim in it. Hit {{k|m}} to set your swimming options.<br />
<br />
Another option is to find a body of water with a ramp into it. Walk down the ramp into the water, which will cause you to start "drowning". However, you can simply walk back out after 10 turns or so to stop drowning, and you will have gained some swimming skill. Repeat until you reach novice skill. If you don't have an abandoned fortress set up for this, slopes into water can be found at ocean beaches.<br />
<br />
All in all this makes Novice Swimming an excellent starting skill, as you can (eventually) get Legendary skill simply by swimming back and forth in two squares of water and get lots of stat points in the process. However, this is mind-numbingly dull so good luck with that. One should also keep in mind that water in cooler areas may suddenly freeze when the sun starts to go down, and thus instantly kill any creatures within. As such, it's a good idea to do your training laps somewhere warm.<br />
<br />
It also seems that you are not able to move out of water of less than (7/7) onto the river bank. In addition, while you are swimming, you can not move to the travel map! You must first leave the water.<br />
<br />
You can crosstrain Ambushing while Swimming to save time- if you start with no Ambushing and Novice Swimming, you will be an Accomplished or Expert Ambusher, give or take, by the time you are a Legendary Swimmer. For more on Ambushing, see below. You can also crosstrain melee skills with swimming by picking a river and swimming down it, training Ambush when it's quiet and training melee when it's not. Some rivers have very high densities of fish, giving you lots of targets to hit. They will tend to gather up, bumping into and slowing each other down ahead of you for you to kill and an adventurer will be all but invincible against non-sturgeons after a few statgains. Just remember that Hippos have the right of way.<br />
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NOTE: Water does NOT currently cleanse fire, if you are burning, jumping into a pool of water will not save you<br />
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==== Ambushing ====<br />
The Ambusher skill is the parent to the {{k|S}}neak ability, which makes you character move more slowly and stealthily to avoid being noticed. Sneak cannot be activated if an enemy can currently see you, but you can use it immediately if you break line of sight somehow. Sneaking around will increase your Ambusher skill even if nobody is around to see you.<br />
<br />
Unfortunately, the best way to train Ambushing is to start sneaking and just hold a direction to run, until you've run 18,000 squares (assuming you started with no skill). This takes a long time, so you may wish to train sneaking just by sneaking whenever possible while playing the game normally in order to avoid boredom.<br />
<br />
Sneaking is particularly useful for avoiding ranged attacks, as even Novice skill allows you to get within four or five squares of an enemy before they spot you reliably. It is relatively easy at normal levels of skill to stand anywhere but right next to an enemy and not be spotted for a long time, if ever. However, standing next to sombody without them spotting you is difficult even with legendary skill. However, even if they spot you moving next to them they will only get one shot at you which is a lot better than the hundreds they would have had if you'd been blundering around in the dark too far away to even see them when they opened fire.<br />
<br />
If you are far faster than the enemy you can sometimes swoop in, attack, and back off to 1-square distance where you are less visible. Sometimes they will spot you, but other times you can literally slice off the opponent's leg and retreat to a safe distance. This may occur because enemies can only make checks to see if you are sneaking during their own turns, and a very fast (2000+ speed) player can run in, stab them, and retreat to a safe distance before their turn comes up.<br />
<br />
The skill also has a valuable part to play in the noble art of running away. As long as you can get out of sight of all the enemies after you at once - such as around a corner indoors, or ducking behind a tree outside - you can start sneaking and head off in another direction. If your skill is too low however the enemies might be close enough to see you as soon as you try to sneak off.<br />
<br />
The most useful part of sneaking is undoubtedly the 'stealth throw'. While firing a missile weapon or attacking in melee will get you noticed immediately, throwing things at people will not. Stock up on dead enemies' weapons, clothing and severed body parts and you can pretend you're some gruesome comedy version of Sam Fisher. You know you want to.<br />
<br />
==== Armor and Shield Use ====<br />
<br />
Armor User lets you wear heavy armor without slowing down, and might control the passive block rate of armor - a very useful skill, if true, because it controls how often your shiny full plate suit will actually work. <br />
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Shield User helps the block roll you make when you are attacked. A Legendary Shield User is far, far more capable of taking on enemies, especially projectile-based weaponmasters whose bolts and arrows are blockable with a shield to a far greater degree than with one's torso, so it is worthwhile to train these two skills.<br />
<br />
Normally, you gain 10 Shield User XP per time you block an attack with a shield, and 2 Armor User XP per time you are attacked while wearing armor. This means that to gain the 18,000 XP necessary for legendary, you must block 1800 strikes, and be attacked at least 9000 times. Naturally, this could take some time- time in which a low-skill adventurer may die from attacks by worthy opponents.<br />
<br />
However, a useful shortcut exists- if you find a small zombie herbavore to strangle in the above wrestling training method, you can also (if it is a small and non-dangerous animal such as a zombie [[groundhog]]) {{k|s}}it down next to it (to minimize your own speed and thus get attacked more often) and hold {{k|5}} to sit down next to the animal and block its attacks over and over. This is still slow, but leagues faster than waiting to train while fighting- it also means that you are probably not in any danger assuming you picked a sufficiently pathetic type of animal.<br />
<br />
Warnings- Make sure that you have your {{k|c}}ombat preference set to Close Combat, otherwise you may counterstrike and kill the zombie. This way, you will wrestle it during a counterstrike instead of doing something that may actually hurt it such as counterstriking with your weapon.<br />
<br />
It is probably also preferable to start with a modicum of skill in Armor and Shield using to make sure you don't accidentally get instakilled or crippled and are good at blocking with your shield to gain XP fast. You'll also want to have non-crappy armor and a good shield or two (dual wielding shields may increase your ability to block) to maximize your ability to block and to make sure you are taking as little as possible damage, if any at all, during training.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Exploration ===<br />
<br />
== Basic exploration tips ==<br />
When traveling it’s a good idea to avoid evil areas until you’re reasonably powerful, as they tend to contain stronger enemies. Also avoid caves for this same reason, you never know when a dragon is lurking in the shadows. Remember that only human towns have shops, so don’t die of hunger wandering the dwarves mountain homes looking for that allusive Applebees. Water can be had from rivers and stagnant pools, though fast traveling (shift + t) makes thirst and hunger go away. If you are exploring caves, make sure to have some water and food with you, as some can be quite deep. <br />
<br />
== Fortress exploration tips. == <br />
If you’ve abandoned a fortress in the world and you’re now adventuring, you can find that same fortress on the map. Ask townsfolk about the surroundings and eventually they’ll mention the fortress and its direction. From there you need only to follow the directions till the fortress shows up on your map. <br />
The perils of fortress exploration<br />
If your fortress was abandoned or destroyed there’s more than likely a reason why. Be it magma overflows, flooding, goblin sieges or perhaps digging a little too greedily and too deep there are likely to be remnants of your downfall somewhere in the remains. Wild beasts and sentient invaders alike will more than likely be slugging it out in your once grand halls. Beyond this there is the danger of forgetting what lever does what and accidentally flooding the room with lava or collapsing the entrance.<br />
<br />
= The advantages of Fortress exploration =<br />
Depending on how advanced your fortress was it may contain extremely rare, powerful or valuables items. Raiding fortresses is the only way to get adamantine items and wafers, as well as the only way to get artifact weapons. Beyond this, you can read the engravings on the walls in order to fill your legends list. <br />
<br />
= Preparation =<br />
Whatever destroyed your fortress is what is going to be squatting in it now. If a goblin siege took you down, then prepare to fight some gobbies. If the horrors of the deep raped your little dwarven ass then prepare to fight those. If they drowned then find some waterwings etc. Make sure you’re fully stocked on arrows (if you use them) as well as water and food. Leaving anything you don’t need back in the tavern in town is a good idea too, as it lets you carry more loot. <br />
<br />
= Plumbing the Deep =<br />
<br />
While wandering the halls of your old fortress its best to secure each floor one by one, to avoid being ambushed. Explore one entire floor then move on to the next. This isn’t a requirement but it can help in finding the best loot as well as insuring against surprise arrow buttsex. If you start to get overburdened with all the loot climb to a secure floor and dump it in a pile. You can come back for it after you’ve finished exploring. Also note that, while traps no longer work, their components (giants blades, spiked balls etc) remain just as lethal in your hands. Also note that you can pick up and throw ballista bolts. <br />
<br />
= What to do with all your newly acquired wealth =<br />
<br />
Not much I’m afraid. While masterwork adamantine weapons are very useful and the raw chunks of adamantine are extremely valuable there’s nothing to really buy with them. The adamantine weapons you find are the strongest in the game and shops will never sell anything above iron so once you’ve got the weapons there’s pretty much nothing more you need. This will most likely be fixed in up coming versions (perhaps paying a blacksmith to make you weapons). <br />
<br />
=== Summary ===<br />
*Avoid flying arrows<br />
*Throw rocks/statues/socks/bugs/sand/coins/arms/heads/swords/arrows/kitchen sinks at enemies that still haven't reached you<br />
*Train your stats before taking on your first quest-monster<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Guides]]<br />
[[Category:Adventurer mode]]</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Noble&diff=5513840d Talk:Noble2009-10-15T16:12:19Z<p>Zchris13: /* Pretentious Arrangements */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Nobles affected by Reclaiming? ==<br />
<br />
My current fortress is a reclaimed one, due to a fire that got into one of my guardtowers' food storage. In the old fortress, I had managed to get a Baron, who was soon skipping right up to Duke and Incoming king after a couple of immigrants. Well, after reclaiming, I proceeded as normal, except, even though my value is still incredibly high from the fortress (1 million+ created wealth, and 400k exported, now), I recieved a count within it's specified area of requirement, but not the Baron before. Even still, My Count does not seem to be upgrading to Duke anytime soon, seeing as I have 188 dwarves, now. Anyone have any ideas, now? [[User:Jwguy|Jwguy]] 12:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Noble Additions and Requirements ==<br />
<br />
Added the dungeon keeper noble. He just showed up at my fort in year 1053. --[[Idles]]<br />
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I'm "fixing" the change, "16:59, 31 October 2007 Lightning4 (Talk | contribs) (1,934 bytes) (→Appointments - Isn't called bookkeeper, at least when the fortress is new.)", because in my forts it IS called bookkeeper when the fortress starts. Other edits have backed me up, suspect editor was confused--Please discuss this here? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 15:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:I apologize, I was indeed incorrect. You do start with a Bookkeeper, which in very short order can be upgraded to a Treasurer. Unsure of requirements, possibly only requires 20 dwarves like the sheriff. My fortress has one and I haven't even done anything besides changed who had bookkeeping and set it to higher priority (did not build study yet). That's probably what got me confused since the bookkeeper upgrades very quickly. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 18:11, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
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::Yeah, 20 dwarves sounds accurate enough to put in there. He didn't turn when I had only 17. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 18:14, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
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"Your original expedition leader will be the fourth dwarf down in the starting screen(the one in the middle)." This does not seem to hold true; I have a newly-developed habit of making the last dwarf on the screen (used to be my designated hauler-peasant) into the administrator, with all the social skills for filling the four starter noble roles. He gets auto-assigned to all four administrative positions; I'm thinking that instead of being fixed or random, the starting assignment is based on social skills. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 00:29, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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I had a Philosopher show up last night. I'm unsure of the requirement to get him; the only really notable thing that had happened was I got over 100 dwarves. I'm adding him to the list of Nobles, though, since I can confirm he still exists in the new version. I also divided the page structure between Appointed and Immigrant nobles, since the current header was misleading (Dungeon Master and Philosopher cannot be appointed). --[[User:Zurai|Zurai]] 20:55, 10 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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I had the king show up tonight. "The King arrives, dressed as a peasant." I have no idea what the requirements were. I missed the 1051 and 1052 dwarf caravans due to prolonged sieges, and had no immigrants those years. 1053 I had the caravan; a season later a wave of immigration brought my total dwarves up to 37. In the spring the king arrived, along with enough others to bring the population to 63. At that time I was notified that the Captain of the Guard position was available. Only thing I can think is that I hit adamantine during the siege years, and mistakenly built a number of ridiculously valuable adamantine objects. (Door, Coffin, etc.) This has raised my fortress value to 1.3 million. Is 1 million value perhaps the trigger? I have no coins, and no nobles other than the starting 4 positions. I did not appoint a sheriff. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:15, 15 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:In the last version, hitting adamantine without proper requirement for the king triggered the reaction of having the king arrive dressed as a paysant. Maybe it's the same here. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 04:20, 15 November 2007 (EST)<br />
== What determines expedition leader? ==<br />
<br />
There are a number of situations to test out:<br />
* No social skills on any dwarves<br />
** ''Probably random, possibly based on the Dwarf's thoughts and preferences''<br />
* Majority of social skills on one dwarf (various positions in start order)<br />
** ''Test case 1: only one dwarf has social skills - gives that dwarf as leader and all positions''<br />
* Social skills spread between multiple dwarves<br />
** Is there any weight on which skill determines the leader?<br />
--[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 01:25, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:Is the first point certain? In my current fortress, I didn't assign any social skills to any dwarf, and I'm pretty certain that the dwarf that ended up expedition leader was the seventh in the list. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 02:28, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
::In my current fort I assigned no social skills and the first dwarf in the list, one of my miners, is the expedition leader. --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:40, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
:::Might be randomised then, I started three new fortresses for the test and each time it was the same so I made an assumption. Obviously this isn't the case can you two check what thoughts/prefs you have for those so we can look for some leadership criteria. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 08:10, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
::::It's almost always been the first dwarf for me (assuming no one had leadership skills), but I could have sworn one time it assigned someone else. Maybe it defaults to the first dwarf on the list but can sometimes choose someone else under certain conditions. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 22:29, 10 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:::::Perhaps the first dwarf didn't get it because of negative preferences? Some dwarves have a line in their thoughts/prefs that reads something like "X prefers to let others take leadership roles". [[User:Tocky|Tocky]] 11:04, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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==Room requirements==<br />
Maybe something about the nobles requiring better rooms and how to build them? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:15, 4 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:Found it in [[room]]s, adding a link. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:34, 4 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
The [[How do I increase the value of a room quickly and easily]] page seems to be a pretty helpful page, but so far what links to it may not be much help when someone is in a pinch with their nobles ([[Door]], [[Room]], [[Furniture]] and the [[Frequently Asked Questions]]). After all, I assume that page exists for that constant problem with nobles where your new Duke requests a "Grand" dining room and DAMMIT, the best you can do is a "Decent" dining room and that sweet, kick-ass, dolomite dining table with the chrysoberyls the image of a dwarf striking down a goblin isn't ready yet because your legendary Gem Setter is "Attending Party". So perhaps a link on the Nobles page should also exist? [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 15:07, 2 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:New pages are largely useless without links - feel free! If you see a need, then, by definition, there is one.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:11, 2 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The room requirement for consorts is not clear. Seeing that they are married, don't they share a single bedroom with their spouse? Is this an exception to the law of marriage? The same questions hold for dining rooms and tombs. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 09:18, 14 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::It's perfectly clear. Lovers like to have their own rooms, even if they never use them. (When you start dating, you'll understand.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:04, 14 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Except that consorts are not ''dating'', they are [[Marriage|''married'']]. (When you are married, you'll understand.) --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:58, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::You're married, and you don't wish you had your own room sometimes? Let me put it this way - maybe the DF royals don't know about this "law of marriage" (and law of dining, and law of dying) that you adhere to. Or, maybe you've just never been dwarven royalty. If it's still not clear, then just accept that.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 15:02, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Not 100? ==<br />
<br />
I just received migrants. My population went from 76 to 100, and my settlement went from a village to a town. No nobles arrived with the migrants. [[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:14, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:Still a town at 108<br />
:Another wave, and we're a city at 111 (migrants still incoming)<br />
::My population went from 101 to 126 in one wave. A Baroness arrived at the same time and turned my settlement into a Barony. Shortly afterwards, my settlement turned into a County (125+ dwarves?). Then Baroness upgraded into a Countess. Baron consort upgraded to a Count Consort.--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 16:49, 19 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::Next immigration wave, my pop hit 138. Nothing happens. Then next immigration wave, my pop hits 141, the Countess upgrades to Duchess and the Count Consort upgrades to Duke Consort. Also, "Incoming King" is the top line on the Nobles screen. When you select it, it shows you what you need to achieve in terms of 1. architecture value (15000) 2. road value (5000) and 3. offerings value. (5000). I'm not sure what criteria triggers the King as it happened at the same time as my Duchess. I did just hit 200k exported wealth. Conincedence? --[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 10:27, 20 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::Another wave, jumped to 161 pop, and some more nobles, a Duke and his Duke Consort. Now I have both a Duke and Duchess!--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 14:06, 20 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:I was made a city and a barony at 110, and promoted to county almost immediately after. No new immigration happened, and I hadn't reached the 120 mark yet. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 16:27, 24 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:The last immigration wave brought me from 98 to a total of 124 including baron/consort, tax collector and hammerer. It is now a City and a Barony. I'll watch out if it changes on the first immigrant from the next wave.I currently have over 500k created wealth and 17000 exported.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:05, 24 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:One child is born and now my total population is 125. Still a City and a Barony.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:23, 25 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:My fortress was upgraded to County when the caravan left the map and my exported wealth leaped from 17k to 26k. The trigger for the County must be either 20k or 25k exported wealth. --[[User:Another|Another]] 12:47, 25 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::Baron arrived during an immigration wave going from 88 to 112 dwarves, and upgraded to a Count not long after arrival but ''not'' immediately either (perhaps as the population went over 100?). Exported wealth was probably around 50k at the time. Now at 119 (and 80k exported) and not yet a Duke. Looks like there's a combination of factors involved. [[User:Cim|Cim]] 11:10, 14 December 2007 (EST)<br />
:Upgrade of the fortress to Duchy was at exactly 140th dwarf from an immigration wave. "The Incoming King" included. Total created wealth - 950k, total exported - 30k.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:37, 1 December 2007 (EST)<br />
: My Baron arrived in the immigration wave that took me over 100 (I had peaked at 96 previously) but this was also the season where I crossed the 50,000 threshold on exported wealth. I actually went from 48,000 to 62,000 over the course of the year, and the baron arrived in the Spring, I did have an immigration wave after crossing 50,000 in the fall. Almost immediately after my baron arrived, he was promoted to count. My population is 119. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 16:41, 3 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:At exported wealth 45k, my Baron promoted to Count at the 110th immigrant. (Baron arrived in the first immigration wave after getting 80 population, can't remember what exported wealth was then) [[User:Cim|Cim]] 20:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)<br />
:Population at 93 no Baron. Next wave - first person to arrive is a Countess, with this wave population went to 114. (So, had no Baron at all) --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:39, 10 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Verified about 140 limit for Duke. My Wrestler have given birth to a boy, the populationd got to 140, and the next message is about the fortress becoming a capital of Duchy. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:10, 24 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Queen As Peasant ==<br />
<br />
I had dug out some raw adamantine, not done anything with it, and I got a notification that 'Your ruler has arrived disguised as a peasant.' At the same time, my Dungeon Master arrived. I don't have an announcement in the log about the Queen, but I do about the DM. I'm treating her like it's legit, what's the deal?<br />
<br />
:Your ruler has heard of the discovery of adamantine, and hurried to yuor fort to oversee the digging. She turned up "disguised as a peasant" because your fort doesn't meet the regular requirements for attracting the monarch and moving to your site officially would be embarassing (in roleplaying/story terms of course). She's perfectly legit, just wasn't attracted in the "conventional" sense by having the largest, wealthiest fort in the civilisation you belong to.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:42, 26 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Baron mandates "crowns"? ==<br />
<br />
I just got a baron, and the first thing he mandates is two crowns. So i type Crown into the jobs/manager list. nothing. So I type crown in dwarf wiki. Nothing. Can anyone help before I have to drop this noble into a pit to keep him from locking up my crafters?<br />
:Info about specific crafts isn't present in the new wiki, but a crown is in fact a "craft" item. [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Craftsdwarf%27s_Workshop#Crafts You can see the old wiki info about crafts here]. You'll probably need to set several crafting jobs to get a crown since the item produced by a crafting task is random with several possibilities. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:06, 1 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Killing nobles ? ==<br />
<br />
Is killing nobles dangerous ? (does it stop immigrations or something ?) <br />
<br />
Because I've got a Count totally uncontrolable, who can't stop throwing tantrums in the middle of my fortress, which is somewhat tiresome... So, if I just can lock him into his bedroom and let him starve to death, it would be great, but I don't know if it won't cause more problems..<br />
<br />
(Also, sorry for my bad english, I'm french) <br />
[[User:Timst|Timst]] 05:40, 26 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Killing off your nobles only really has the penalties associated with killing any other dwarf - their friends and family will be upset, and you lose that dwarf's abilities. In the case of nobles a replacement will usually turn up with the next migrant wave, unless your fort no longer meets the requirements for that noble. You can, of course, kill the replacement too - with lesser repercussions as he won't have had time to make any friends yet.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:38, 26 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::Ok, thanks :) I was afraid that the death of a count could induct a reaction of the mountainhomes or something like that... If the only reaction will be the one of the countess, it will be ok :) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 07:00, 26 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::In the future, killing off a noble will have repercussions, however, so don't depend on that behaviour forever. ;-)<br />
:::''Req291, NOBLE DEATH, (Future): Killing off nobles needs to have serious consequences. Once the counties (see Core28) are in, there could be revolts from the village if the count is popular. Other nobles could have angry relatives. Losing your law enforcement nobles could lead to more tantrums and other acts in large fortresses. Nobles should all be upset by the death of the tax collector. When a noble is buried, other dwarves could be sealed in the tomb.''<br />
:::--[[User:JT|JT]] 15:11, 26 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::This doesn't sound like it has much effect on a "kill early, kill often" approach &mdash; e.g. preparing their death room immediately upon their arrival, and luring them in via a profile-set lever pull job. The count won't be popular (at least in your fort) if nobody knows him, unless he's popular by reputation or something. Angry relatives? If they show up friendly but ready to tantrum, I draft / lure them into killing rooms; if they're hostile, I deal with them like a siege. Nobles all being upset by the tax collector means nothing if I've killed all the nobles. And it's not like I'm going to make tombs for them, either. Only the law enforcement one looks like an issue.<br />
<br />
::::On the other hand, maybe that's the point &mdash; you're penalised if you just randomly kill nobles because you don't like them, but you're also allowed to run a "screw the nobility, we're a free communal fortress" game (or have a "kill the entire current regime, we want a revolution" event) so long as you actively enforce it. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:02, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Another issue that can pop up is killing your Baron/Count/Duke, their spouse will stick around and remain a noble even after the replacement and their spouse has shown up. On one fortress my count had 3 Countess Consorts, one was his wife and the other 2 were leftovers from the previous 2 counts. One Baron happened to be standing under a drawbridge as it came down (don't ask what a drawbridge was doing in his room, lets just say he wasn't going to get that rock crystal item he wanted) and his widow was promoted to Countess Consort when the new Count showed up to replace him a few seasons later. That Count was tending a farm when a squad of gobs beat the living tar out of him and his widow remained a Countess Consort even after the third noble arrived to replace the dead Count. They all still make demands/mandates and still require rooms/tombs and all that as before. [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 20:55, 18 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Selling Nobles ==<br />
<tt>╔═╦═╗</tt> Unlock doors, assign lever to noble, order lever pulled.<br/><br />
<tt>║ò┼^┼</tt> Wait for noble to stand on cage trap, lock both doors.<br/><br />
<tt>╚═╩═╝</tt> Wait for noble to fall asleep, sell caged noble to elves.<br/><br />
:Sorry for the crude drawing. My wiki format skills are weak. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 14:36, 20 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Eh... except for the small known bug where trying to haul an occupied cage to the trading depot results in whatever is caged being freed and the empty cage being brought in. But once they fix that bug, maybe. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:30, 20 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::I've been trying to sell my dwarves for ages, as a 'clean' approach to dealing with nobles and unwanted immigration. Sadly, they always seem to die of thirst first. If I let them out just once to drink, they die of hunger. Maybe if I let them out twice... but that's a lot of effort. Better to just let them die, unless they're very popular or something. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Selling to the Elves? That's too cruel, even for nobles! Don't you know that the Elves are '''Cannibals!?!''' --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 12:45 17 August 2009 (EST)<br />
::::[ENTITY:FOREST]<br />
:::::[CREATURE:ELF]<br />
:::::[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]<br />
<br />
<br />
::::::Actually, they're not cannibals. That would state that they would eat each other if they killed each other. This is only that they'll eat the dead that they kill themselves, and as killing each other in their society is not acceptable they won't eat each other, however, if the Sapient_other tag was set to acceptable they might end up eating each other if they die by any means. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 20:16, 17 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::Well, eating deceased of your own kind is still cannibalism. [[User:Kurokikaze|Kurokikaze]] 11:15, 14 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Category? ==<br />
<br />
I would do this myself if I knew how, but perhaps someone should make a noble category, with all the noble related articles (Unfortunate accident, mandate, types of nobles, etc) in it. I think it would be useful. [[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 20:53, 10 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Nobles Working==<br />
<br />
Actually, nobles not only gather harvest if you put all dwarves harvest on, but they also help demolishing constructed walls.=--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 00:53, 23 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:Thanks, I'll add that to [[labor]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 23 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Arrival Requirements Verified==<br />
Ok, I just had the Baroness, Hammerer, and Tax Collector arrive simultaneously with no other dwarves. I'm playing with a population cap of 50, and births (plus overflow of last immigration wave) has finally taken me up to exactly 80 dwarves. Despite the population cap, the Baroness, Tax Collector, and Hammerer arrived by themselves.<br />
<br />
<s>Note that the Baroness Consort has not arrived, presumably because he takes the place of a normal dwarf during the immigration wave and can't be generated in violation of the population cap (whereas the other three can).</s> nevermind, he just showed up.<br />
<br />
I should also note that I earlier had the King arrive as a peasant by himself despite being at the population cap. He also brought no consort nor advisor (although I've never had him arrive as a peasant before, so I don't know if that's normal).<br />
<br />
I have not seen a philosopher as of yet.<br />
<br />
As my fortress wealth is past 8 million at this point, I think its safe to say I can rule that out as a cause (having seen them at much lower wealth in default pop cap games).<br />
<br />
--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:30, 7 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I had the usual five nobles show up once in an immigration wave that took me over 80 dwarves, and promptly killed them, along with most of the immigrants. I subsequently set my population max to 50. My current population (minus nobles) is 69, yet those same nobles continue to show up every few seasons, suggesting that once you become a barony (80 pop, initial baron/ess arrival), they'll continue to show up again, regardless of your current status. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:10, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Noble demands==<br />
<br />
I currently have a Baroness demanding "item in Dining Room". Any idea what could satisfy this? I tried a bismuth bronze statue, no luck. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 00:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
: This is a bug. Check # 000491 @ http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 00:47, 5 January 2009 (EST)<br />
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<br />
==Pretentious Arrangements==<br />
<br />
Thoughts about a lesser's pretentious <whatever> arrangements seem to be a common source of noble unhappiness. (this is especially annoying for me as my mayor has an artifact in her bedroom raising it to Royal and my queen has no list of likes and dislikes, so I can't make her happy just by having the right booze) it would be interesting to know what exactly causes the difference between "upset" and "shattered", how to avoid it, and good ways to mitigate it's effects. I might have to do some research on my old fort to check this myself. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 13:58, 6 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Well, I suspect that the difference is related to the difference in room value, although I suppose that's stating the obvious. Another obvious solution would be to move the artefact into the higher-ranked Noble's room, assuming that's possible. Otherwise, I suppose the simplest (if not the easiest) way to mitigate its effects is to add as much value as possible to the Queen's room. As well as furniture, you can get surprising results with smoothings, engravings, and building an expensive floor over the engraved one if you have no qualms about exploiting such strangeness.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:07, 6 January 2009 (EST)<br />
::I can confirm it's the difference between relative worth. I kept getting these annoying messages in my count + consort until I stuffed a platinum statue in their rooms. Obviously, this increased the worth of the room by 12K, easily dominating the 'lesser' quarters.<br />
<br />
::It does require that there be a significant difference; having them at roughly equal worth will cause unhappy thoughts, which was my problem in my most recent fortress. I just housed all my nobles in the same residential stack as everyone else, adding extra room additions off the main design for offices, dining rooms, etc. The Count's room was a LITTLE better as his walls happened to be ore-bearing, but it wasn't enough to please him, hence the statue.--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:04, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br />
:::Alright, I've put the artefact cabinet back in my mayor's room, and now will proceed to test this principle by making the Queen's rooms incredibly nice. I'm going to start by replacing all her furniture with gold and platinum, and move up from there.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 15:49, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You may have a long way to go. Artifact furniture can easily be 50 or 60K, whereas the most expensive single piece of furniture I've ever been able to produce is a masterwork platinum statue, which is 12K. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:36, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::While you can't order artifacts dumped, you can apparently order them forbidden. So maybe you could forbid it and then move the creator's quarters elsewhere, leaving the original one vacant. Or maybe you could make them temporary quarters elsewhere, wait for them to move the artifact, then forbid it and move them back. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:22, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::I believe you are misenterpreting the way artifacts, and ownership of artifacts works.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:12, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Noble upgrade size. ==<br />
<br />
I have a count still event though I have 148 dwarves. Could it be dependant on more than just the 140, or is it different now? [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 21:55, 11 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
: I'm at 188 dwarves still with a count not a duke. Could there be a dependancy on metal jobs? Other than melting down the goblin metal, I don't have any metal jobs going. [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 10:47, 14 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
I just had a peasant give birth to a baby. This put my population at 110, and I immediately got a message that my fortress had been made into a county. So, I will remove the "verify" tags from the count/count consort promotion info.--[[User:Scrotch|Scrotch]] 18:59, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I'm certain that exports are a requirement. Remember that only wealth you have created can count as exports, trading goblin items won't raise the number. If you can't offer it, it doesn't count. I had a fortress with 140+ dwarves that jumped up to a barony from nothing when I started exporting. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 20:03, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Failure to comply ==<br />
<br />
I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet, but what happens if you don't give a noble the room he/she requires? I know they get unhappy thoughts, but is that all? Will they punish anyone? Or just start throwing tantrums? Next useless noble I get is sleeping in the barracks. On the floor.<br />
:Unhappy thoughts? I don't think there is any repercusions. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:26, 12 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Unhappy nobles means more mandates, more demands and harsher sentences. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 20:04, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I just read this and checked my noble's happiness levels and justice levels, and even though they all seem ecstatic lately I have someone who's being jailed for 64 days, which I think is pretty extreme. I have been fulfilling hardly any of their mandates though, so perhaps jail time is related more to mandates than happiness?[[User:Gnavin|Gnavin]] 14:29, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Why Nobles Exist: ==<br />
<br />
Nobles exist because Dwarven government is a feudal system; the fortress is just a semi-autonomous local government which must still answer to the King, and here's why:<br />
::Long ago in the Age of Myth, the King's ancestor was legendary +5 in every military skill and took control of everything, killing all who resisted. His descendants are now <s>fat, lazy, whoremongering, good for nothing slobs</s> not as <s>cool</s> personally strong as he was, but they still technically own everything, including "your" fortress. The expedition that went to "colonize the King's land" did so with his permission, <s>usually given while drunk</s>. When your fortress becomes large enough that it can no longer <s>avoid notice</s> govern itself "properly", the King sends one of his <s>drinking mates</s> representatives to <s>screw up</s> "manage" the fortress. The nobles hold the authority of the King, and so there every <s>ridiculous</s> <s>stupid</s> <s>impossible</s> "reasonable" mandate "MUST" be obeyed. --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 12:37 17 August, 2009 (EST)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Zchris13&diff=55133User talk:Zchris132009-10-15T15:31:22Z<p>Zchris13: </p>
<hr />
<div><div align=center><div style="width: 28em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.5em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]''</div></div><br />
<br />
Hi, just a quick note, you can and should click the "This is a minor edit" when you are doing small modification, that way, people can filter small modification out of the recent change and see the bigger change. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 13:02, 23 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I know. I just forget. I usually don't. Oops?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 13:02, 23 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== reply ==<br />
<br />
"I have definitely seen aluminum inside a copper vein. It was freakin amazing..." --ME!<br />
<br />
Hey! Okay, good to know. But that article implied that was the only place you'd find it. We both know that's wrong-oh... ;){{Unsigned|Albedo}}<br />
<br />
== Reveal & Veins ==<br />
<br />
(comment re above - yes, I forgot to sig that - my bad)<br />
<br />
Yeah, it was funny, it was just out of place and an inside joke - a newbie would not understand, and it might confoozle the hell outa them. Add it to the Reveal sub-article - the warnings there are sorely understated (and far too dry). <br />
<br />
(looking, I put a " ; ) " in my edit comments, but the page seems to have split it.) S'all good. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:45, 14 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== artifact quality ==<br />
<br />
Dunno. Like I asked in the forum, it'll take someone with more skill than I to determine conclusively. I'm good either way.<br />
(No idea why that was a double post - wiki has been funky last hour or more.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:36, 16 May 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Floodgate&diff=5513240d:Floodgate2009-10-15T15:29:54Z<p>Zchris13: Undo revision 55131 by Zchris13 (Talk)</p>
<hr />
<div>A '''floodgate''' is an object used to regulate the flow of fluids, such as [[water]] and [[magma]]. It is not the ''only'' item that will do so, and in fact is often not the best choice - [[door]]s, [[hatch]]es, and [[bridge]]s also work, often better, depending on the circumstances and needs. (See [[Floodgate#Floodgates vs other barriers|below]] for a comparison.)<br />
<br />
They can be manufactured from [[rock]] (at a [[mason's workshop]]), [[wood]] (at a [[carpenter's workshop]]), [[metal]] (at a [[metalsmith's forge]]), or [[glass]] (at a [[glass furnace]]). Once manufactured, they are built in the desired location by using the keys {{k|b}}, {{k|x}}. <br />
<br />
Unlike doors or hatches, they cannot be opened at the time they are built - they ''must'' be linked with [[mechanism]]s and activated remotely if they are to open and close.<br />
<br />
== Placement ==<br />
Floodgates must be built on solid [[floor]] (i.e. not over a channel), but unlike doors do ''not'' have to be attached to a wall. A long line of free-standing floodgates can create a removable wall, that completely disappears when they are "opened". Dwarves must be able to stand [[orthogonal]]ly to the floodgate in order to build it. In order to control a vertical water flow from a lower source, one solution is to build the floodgate on a constructed [[wall]], and then remove the wall.<br />
<br />
Floodgates generally have to be built prior to flooding the area (obvious for [[magma]], isn't it?) but can still be built at a [[water]] level of 1/7. They are placed in a "closed" position, and if they are to be opened they must be linked to a [[lever]] or [[pressure plate]] - this can be done after liquid is introduced to one side, so long as the other side is accessible. <br />
<br />
If there is no roof above a floodgate nor above an incoming water flow that comes from a source with higher elevation, the water can spill over the floodgate. See the [[pressure]] article for more information.<br />
<br />
[[Dwarves]] often like to stand on the wrong side of the floodgate they are constructing so that they may conveniently decline any subsequent labor. They'll sit there with their feet propped up on a convenient rock, twiddling their thumbs until such time as the floodgate is opened mechanically or deconstructed. To avoid this situation you should build something on the tile you ''don't'' want them to stand on, <tt>Suspend</tt> its construction until the floodgate is complete, and <tt>Cancel</tt> its construction when you're finished.<br />
<br />
====Placement with existing water====<br />
<br />
Dwarves will not place any object in water deeper than 1/7 ("area flooded"), so if attempting to control an existing flow (ie, if the flood has already occurred), you will need to [[dam]] the water to place your floodgates (or doors, or bridges, etc). <br />
<br />
== Activation ==<br />
Floodgates have to be linked to [[lever]]s or [[pressure plate]]s to allow them to be opened and closed <s>remotely</s> at all. An open floodgate also can be walked through, whereas a closed one can not.<br />
Once activated, it will take approximately 100 steps for the floodgate to open or close: the same as [[bridge]]s.<br />
<br />
One serious flaw with floodgates is that if ''anything'' is in the tile with them when they are signaled to close, they will ignore that signal and remain open. "Anything" means '''any object''' - a sock, a butterfly corpse, a goblin, a crossbow bolt, anything! The exception to this rule is that floodgates will close on fluids (water and magma), and destroy (not displace) any units of liquid on the tile.<br />
<br />
Because levers have on/off states rather than simply toggling attached buildings, the lever/pressure plate must send two more signals in order to unstick a floodgate - one to open (which does nothing, as it is already open) and a new "close" order - and hopefully that works. <br />
<br />
== Floodgates vs Magma ==<br />
Closed floodgates of any material will resist [[magma]], much like constructed [[wall]]s. However, once a floodgate is opened, the magma will flow though and destroy:<br />
* the floodgate itself if it was not made of [[magma-safe materials]].<br />
* the [[mechanism]] if it was not made of [[magma-safe materials]] ([[bauxite]] or [[raw adamantine]]), thus deconstructing the floodgate.<br />
<br />
== Uses ==<br />
A water floodgate connected to a [[river]] can be opened to create a shallow pool, then closed, the pool then be drained or allowed to evaporate. The resulting [[mud]] can be used for [[underground]] [[farm]]s. Standing water can be used for drinking, or sufficiently rushing water used as a defense against invaders.<br />
<br />
A floodgate can also be used to cover [[fortification]]s when they are not being used. This will prevent enemies from firing into your fort through the fortifications, and can be useful if your [[marksdwarf]]s arrive at the fortification one at a time.<br />
<br />
Unlike doors, floodgates can be built directly adjacent to each other; that is, floodgates do not require an adjacent wall. This allows [[channel]]s wider than two squares to be regulated. This characteristic also permits for the construction of "siege doors", allowing areas wider than two tiles to be sealed off from the enemy. For instance, the three tile wide access point for a [[Trade Depot]] within the fortress can be closed down into a chokepoint with floodgates and a lever, giving your marksdwarves more of a chance to shoot invaders.<br />
<br />
Using floodgates to halt or reroute enemies must be planned carefully, as large creatures such as [[Troll]]s can destroy floodgates. One solution is to use a bridge over a channel. It can still be controlled by a pressure plate or lever, but prevents trolls from ignoring your carefully planned defences.<br />
<br />
==Floodgates vs other barriers==<br />
<br />
{|cellpadding="2" border="1"<br />
! Barrier !! Jammed<sup>1</sup> <br />by item? !! Pros/Cons || Activation<br /> Delay<sup>3</sup><br />
|-<br />
| Floodgate || Yes || Can be built in a line without support <br />Closed when installed, un-openable until linked || 100 steps<br />
|-<br />
| [[Door]] || Yes || Spare doors are often readily available,<br />Require support - only 2 wide max <sup>2</sup> || Instant<br />
|-<br />
| [[Hatch]] || Yes || Spare hatches are often readily available <br />Only good to control vertical flow || Instant<br />
|-<br />
| [[bridge|Drawbridge]] || No || Opens/closes opposite of any of the above <br />Can control vertical or horizontal flow, or both <br />Un-jammable || 100 steps<br />
|-<br />
| [[bridge|Retracting Bridge]] || No || Only good to control vertical water flow <br />Will not destroy/kill anything in its area<br />Un-jammable || 100 steps<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
Notes:<br />
:1) Some barriers refuse to close when any item, ''no matter how small'', is blocking them. Drawbridges destroy anything that is in in their "landing area" when they open, and anything on their "anchor point" when they close.<br />
:2) There is an exploit that can work around this limit - see [[Door#Free-standing_doors|free-standing doors]]. However, a Caravan path is still blocked by doors, even 3-wide, even when open.<br />
:3) The delay between the activation of the [[trigger]] (lever or pressure plate) and the response of the barrier. A "step" is one step that the game advances, not a step that a dwarf takes (which takes a variable amount of "steps").<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Buildings}}<br />
[[Category:Furniture]]</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Floodgate&diff=5513140d:Floodgate2009-10-15T15:29:30Z<p>Zchris13: /* Floodgates vs other barriers */</p>
<hr />
<div>A '''floodgate''' is an object used to regulate the flow of fluids, such as [[water]] and [[magma]]. It is not the ''only'' item that will do so, and in fact is often not the best choice - [[door]]s, [[hatch]]es, and [[bridge]]s also work, often better, depending on the circumstances and needs. (See [[Floodgate#Floodgates vs other barriers|below]] for a comparison.)<br />
<br />
They can be manufactured from [[rock]] (at a [[mason's workshop]]), [[wood]] (at a [[carpenter's workshop]]), [[metal]] (at a [[metalsmith's forge]]), or [[glass]] (at a [[glass furnace]]). Once manufactured, they are built in the desired location by using the keys {{k|b}}, {{k|x}}. <br />
<br />
Unlike doors or hatches, they cannot be opened at the time they are built - they ''must'' be linked with [[mechanism]]s and activated remotely if they are to open and close.<br />
<br />
== Placement ==<br />
Floodgates must be built on solid [[floor]] (i.e. not over a channel), but unlike doors do ''not'' have to be attached to a wall. A long line of free-standing floodgates can create a removable wall, that completely disappears when they are "opened". Dwarves must be able to stand [[orthogonal]]ly to the floodgate in order to build it. In order to control a vertical water flow from a lower source, one solution is to build the floodgate on a constructed [[wall]], and then remove the wall.<br />
<br />
Floodgates generally have to be built prior to flooding the area (obvious for [[magma]], isn't it?) but can still be built at a [[water]] level of 1/7. They are placed in a "closed" position, and if they are to be opened they must be linked to a [[lever]] or [[pressure plate]] - this can be done after liquid is introduced to one side, so long as the other side is accessible. <br />
<br />
If there is no roof above a floodgate nor above an incoming water flow that comes from a source with higher elevation, the water can spill over the floodgate. See the [[pressure]] article for more information.<br />
<br />
[[Dwarves]] often like to stand on the wrong side of the floodgate they are constructing so that they may conveniently decline any subsequent labor. They'll sit there with their feet propped up on a convenient rock, twiddling their thumbs until such time as the floodgate is opened mechanically or deconstructed. To avoid this situation you should build something on the tile you ''don't'' want them to stand on, <tt>Suspend</tt> its construction until the floodgate is complete, and <tt>Cancel</tt> its construction when you're finished.<br />
<br />
====Placement with existing water====<br />
<br />
Dwarves will not place any object in water deeper than 1/7 ("area flooded"), so if attempting to control an existing flow (ie, if the flood has already occurred), you will need to [[dam]] the water to place your floodgates (or doors, or bridges, etc). <br />
<br />
== Activation ==<br />
Floodgates have to be linked to [[lever]]s or [[pressure plate]]s to allow them to be opened and closed <s>remotely</s> at all. An open floodgate also can be walked through, whereas a closed one can not.<br />
Once activated, it will take approximately 100 steps for the floodgate to open or close: the same as [[bridge]]s.<br />
<br />
One serious flaw with floodgates is that if ''anything'' is in the tile with them when they are signaled to close, they will ignore that signal and remain open. "Anything" means '''any object''' - a sock, a butterfly corpse, a goblin, a crossbow bolt, anything! The exception to this rule is that floodgates will close on fluids (water and magma), and destroy (not displace) any units of liquid on the tile.<br />
<br />
Because levers have on/off states rather than simply toggling attached buildings, the lever/pressure plate must send two more signals in order to unstick a floodgate - one to open (which does nothing, as it is already open) and a new "close" order - and hopefully that works. <br />
<br />
== Floodgates vs Magma ==<br />
Closed floodgates of any material will resist [[magma]], much like constructed [[wall]]s. However, once a floodgate is opened, the magma will flow though and destroy:<br />
* the floodgate itself if it was not made of [[magma-safe materials]].<br />
* the [[mechanism]] if it was not made of [[magma-safe materials]] ([[bauxite]] or [[raw adamantine]]), thus deconstructing the floodgate.<br />
<br />
== Uses ==<br />
A water floodgate connected to a [[river]] can be opened to create a shallow pool, then closed, the pool then be drained or allowed to evaporate. The resulting [[mud]] can be used for [[underground]] [[farm]]s. Standing water can be used for drinking, or sufficiently rushing water used as a defense against invaders.<br />
<br />
A floodgate can also be used to cover [[fortification]]s when they are not being used. This will prevent enemies from firing into your fort through the fortifications, and can be useful if your [[marksdwarf]]s arrive at the fortification one at a time.<br />
<br />
Unlike doors, floodgates can be built directly adjacent to each other; that is, floodgates do not require an adjacent wall. This allows [[channel]]s wider than two squares to be regulated. This characteristic also permits for the construction of "siege doors", allowing areas wider than two tiles to be sealed off from the enemy. For instance, the three tile wide access point for a [[Trade Depot]] within the fortress can be closed down into a chokepoint with floodgates and a lever, giving your marksdwarves more of a chance to shoot invaders.<br />
<br />
Using floodgates to halt or reroute enemies must be planned carefully, as large creatures such as [[Troll]]s can destroy floodgates. One solution is to use a bridge over a channel. It can still be controlled by a pressure plate or lever, but prevents trolls from ignoring your carefully planned defences.<br />
<br />
==Floodgates vs other barriers==<br />
<br />
{|cellpadding="2" border="1"<br />
! Barrier !! Jammed<sup>1</sup> <br />by item? !! Pros/Cons || Activation<br /> Delay<sup>3</sup><br />
|-<br />
| Floodgate || Yes || Can be built in a line without support <br />Closed when installed, un-openable until linked || 100 steps<br />
|-<br />
| [[Door]] || Yes || Spare doors are often readily available,<br />Require support - only 2 wide max || Instant<br />
|-<br />
| [[Hatch]] || Yes || Spare hatches are often readily available <br />Only good to control vertical flow || Instant<br />
|-<br />
| [[bridge|Drawbridge]] || No || Opens/closes opposite of any of the above <br />Can control vertical or horizontal flow, or both <br />Un-jammable || 100 steps<br />
|-<br />
| [[bridge|Retracting Bridge]] || No || Only good to control vertical water flow <br />Will not destroy/kill anything in its area<br />Un-jammable || 100 steps<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
Notes:<br />
:1) Some barriers refuse to close when any item, ''no matter how small'', is blocking them. Drawbridges destroy anything that is in in their "landing area" when they open, and anything on their "anchor point" when they close.<br />
:2) There is an exploit that can work around this limit - see [[Door#Free-standing_doors|free-standing doors]]. However, a Caravan path is still blocked by doors, even 3-wide, even when open.<br />
:3) The delay between the activation of the [[trigger]] (lever or pressure plate) and the response of the barrier. A "step" is one step that the game advances, not a step that a dwarf takes (which takes a variable amount of "steps").<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Buildings}}<br />
[[Category:Furniture]]</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Magma&diff=5512940d Talk:Magma2009-10-15T15:20:17Z<p>Zchris13: /* Flies spawning from magma? */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Steel?==<br />
Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the [[Magma smelter]] article, which state that using [[Fire-safe materials]] is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
:Magmaproof is not the same as fireproof. Buildings that work WITH magma need to be fireproof. Rocks and iron are fireproof. Wood is not. Buildings that are going IN the magma, such as floodgates, their mechanisms, and pumps need to be magmaproof materials such as steel and bauxite. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 01:51, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The "must have steel" thing is from the old 2d version. Now, it is only required to be fire safe, such as iron and steel, most other metals, and most types of rock.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:10, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Disabling temperature?==<br />
If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
: Yes, dwarves seem to be able to swim through magma unharmed when temperature is off(I've had them shoved in during a fight, not 100% sure), but they'll violently resist this, even without danger. Water will still steam, it seems to be hard coded. --[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 16:50, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Mountain Layers & magma?==<br />
Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_rocks#Naming this article] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock#Mineralogical_classification this site] list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?<br />
:It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.<br />
::So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:::A small patch of obsidian is a dead giveaway for a magma pipe.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:11, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==magma chamber not visible==<br />
On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
:You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--[[User:SL|SL]] 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this "cap", I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:::Turning on the "see magma pools and pipes" option in the init file would be a great help for trouble shooting on this topic.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:44, 23 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I have seen this "cap" of obsidian over pipes in all temperatures.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:17, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
== Magmapool/pipe section ==<br />
Zara, you recently added some info about all magma pipes having cliffs over them -- this is incorrect. I've played a very large number of magma pipe maps, and very often they are completely exposed to the air. I've also removed the line about them being "as small as two z-levels!", because it needs better phrasing. I may fix it later. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 22:39, 26 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:in the meantime I had figured that out, too. But what is the difference between a magma pipe and a volcano, then? <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Zara|Zara]]</small><br />
<br />
::As far as I know, the distinction comes down to whether it reaches the surface. If so, some would then call it a volcano rather than a magma pipe. I believe that magma pipes which reach the surface (or volcanoes, if you will) are the only ones which actually show up on the embark map, while underground magma pipes and magma pools do not (unless you use the Regional Prospector tool). --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 23:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::No, similar to Moonanibe,I've played on several maps where, on the embark screen, the magma pipe was only visible using regional prospector. However, as soon as I took a look at the place, I found the magma partly (or completely) exposed on the surface. [[User:Zara|Zara]] 01:59, 11 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::Magma pipes are not 'necessarily' part of a mountain, while volcanoes make a mountain around them during world gen. Comes down to a number game. Volcanoes have a magma number of 100, while pipes have a number between 99 and some lower value.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:48, 23 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Added new section ==<br />
I added a section regarding "Built objects vs. Magma". I think it's absolutely vital we establish what does and doesn't melt in magma, in a clean list. There are quite a few things that could be added to that list (Constructed floors for one) so please, do add to it. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 17:31, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:Have you tested the bridges? I conjecture that all buildings and constructions without mechanisms are perfectly fine with magma contact. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:: The bridges part was cut from another section of the article and moved in there. Since it was already here, I assumed it was accurate. I haven't actually checked myself. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 16:54, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:I will verify bridges one way or the other. I'm pretty sure they cant melt, though. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:03, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::they dont melt, as they arent actually within the magma. that was copied over from the 2d wiki and nobody removed it -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 22:29, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::: I noticed you removed the line about bridges. It seems silly not to mention them at all, so I've written up a line about them working no matter what the material and stuck it in. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 23:12, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::::yea they should definately be mentioned, wasnt thinking when i removed it completely(recovering from a bad cold and brain is still a bit foggy) -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 00:49, 20 February 2008 (EST)<br />
Tested. Non-magmaproof bridges -over- magma are fine. Non-magma-proof submerged in magma will melt. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:39, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br />
: Interesting. I'll edit the article to say as much. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 15:30, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br />
This is what I've found: ANY Construction is safe from magma (even wooden ones. Walls, stairs, fortifications, etc). Any building is unaffected by magma if the magma doesn't occupy the same tile as the building. Example: a door is safe if it's closed, even if it's made of non-safe rock or wood. If you lock it open with a mechanism, or if it's jammed, then the magma interacts with the components, burning/melting them if they can't stand the heat. A pump made of wood or any other material is also safe, as long as the magma doesn't flow *over* it. Since the "out" side acts as a wall, if it's correctly isolated from the magma it won't get damaged and will pump the magma without any trouble. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 01:41, 21 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Anyone clear on Vertical Bars in magma? I am attempting to keep imps and such from moving through my magma feeding tunnel and was curious if anyone had any good solutions to this problem. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 16:23, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I just use a bauxite wall grate, it works fine for me. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:02, 15 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
:: Ah, thank you, I just wanted to be sure they didn't melt regardless --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 02:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br><br />
I made a few tests with magma and buildings/constructions and I can confirm some known results and I can provide a few new aspects. Constructions (b->C) are magma safe (walls, floors, stairs, others not tested). No matter what the material is.<br />
*<s>bridges build with bauxite *rocks* are not magma safe (bauxite mechanism or not)</s><br />
*bridges build with bauxite *blocks* are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)<br />
*bridges build with steel bars are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)<br />
Open test: bridge with blocks considered as not magma safe.<br />
<br>[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:14, 11 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
::I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The bridges build with bauxite rocks were previously connected with a lever. Unfortunately the mechanism is not removed from the bridge when you remove the lever. Well, at least it seems that the rules for magma safe materials are valid for bridges. With one exception: raised bridges can contain any mechanism, only when magma flows over the bridge it is destroyed.--[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 13:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Replenishing Magma ==<br />
<br />
Since magma replenishes now, I've rewritten that snippet from the article. If I've missed something(a kind of magma not regenerating, though this always worked for me on several maps), feel free to correct things. --[[User:Romantic Warrior|Romantic Warrior]] 15:47, 18 February 2008 (EST).<br />
<br />
<br />
I have a very good feeling that the replenishing magma is just "pressurized" magma. I haven't tested fully, but i have poured water over a magma pipe and re-mined it, and in that case the magma flow was upwards. --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 03:49, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
I'm playing a magma pipe right now, and after filling a reservoir to build my forges over, I noticed the main pipe section refilled itself a little bit. It's not back to what it used to be, but there is definitely some regeneration going on. Seems to be going at an excruciatingly slow pace though. About 7 years into the fort and the pipe is nowhere close to being completely refilled. --[[Special:Contributions/65.94.8.163|65.94.8.163]] 14:12, 11 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Temperature ==<br />
<br />
Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I'm not sure how the temperature calculations are done, but I CAN tell you that magma will melt nearby ice. Check out http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-153-meltingwateronglacier to see it in action. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 15:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::It should be a flow, just like the magma itself. One of the other visible results is warm stone. The same can probably be said for water and damp stone as well. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::It also makes sure water stays heated; a friend of mine keeps magma under a few of his natural pools to make sure they stay thawed during the cold winter months (all but the middle summer month!) --Gotthard 17:45, 12 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Flow?==<br />
<br />
I have a magma pipe (pit) in my current fortress... I breached the pipe from the lowest level because of the diagonal bug when I discovered it, and it filled some long exploratory shafts. Since then, the top magma layer is down to 5/7 and 6/7 running all over the surface. After a little while, it's easy to see that magma act curiously: instead of bouncing from wall to wall like real water physics, in my game the 5/7 (the flow) seems to all move in the same direction at the same time. The direction change often, and seem to change randomly. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
There is another way to stop a flow of magma that's moving through a tunnel. You can go one z-level higher, dig to a spot above the magma-filled tunnel, then build a channel above where the magma is flowing and assign it as a Pond Zone. So long as you have buckets and a viable Water Source zone, a dwarf will come along and drop water on the magma, instantly turning it into obsidian and blocking the tunnel. --[[User:Stromko]] January 6th, 2007<br />
: I've tried this - it rarely works. Usually you just destroy 1/7 of the magma per bucket, along with the water from the bucket, and nothing turns to obsidian. You need to hit it with larger quantities of water at once to get reliable results. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:35, 6 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Actually, you have to hit it from two levels up. Just one won't do anything.--[[User:Demosthenes|Demosthenes]] 17:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
I have added a section to the main page on magma flow, based on frequent confusion in the forums, and on some investigations I have been making into the behavior of magma when pumped (I'm not the first to discover this behavior, but I did go to a fair degree of effort to test how it behaves in differing circumstances) --[[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] 21:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Now THAT is how you make a diagram! Awesome. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:20, 8 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Criteria for Magma Buildings==<br />
<br />
Is there a special condition that must be met before Magma Smelters/Forges/Furnaces and so on will appear on the build menus? I have a magma pit and some channels over it so that I can access it for magma, but I cannot build any magma-using buildings. - [[User:Confused Rat|Confused Rat]]<br />
<br />
:Magma furnaces and forges need a hole somewhere on the ground where they are built. This is to allow the furnace/forge to take the heat from the magma as they are used. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:43, 25 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:What he means is that the magma furnaces don't even appear in the build menu. This is because you haven't discovered magma through natural means. The only way this can happen is if you used reveal to find the magma. You'll have to use the [[Utilities#Enable_Magma_Buildings|Enable Magma Buildings]] utility to make them appear. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:03, 25 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Reclaimed fortresses may be bugged. If you reclaimed you fortress you probably can't do anything with it without 3rd party programs (like one mentioned above). Magma in [[pit]]s isn't enough to allow magma buildings. You need to discover true magma pipe and get pop-up informing about this. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I had a similar problem in a human settlement, so I do not know if the bug applies there, too... but there IS a chance I abandoned and reclaimed at one point, so it could just be that --[[User:Zatnik|Zatnik]] 05:02, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Infinity Generators? ==<br />
<br />
Because magma is currently a finite resource, would it be a good idea to add how to make an infinity generator as workarround untill Toady gives us some more of the stuff?<small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Highlord Asehujiko|Highlord Asehujiko]] ([[User talk:Highlord Asehujiko|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Highlord Asehujiko|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
:Not on the main article as it would easily be considered cheating. In here, or the [[cheating]] article itself would be fine, the latter probably more appropriate as it could be applied to water as well for those scorching maps. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:16, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Magma regenerates in most cases, which pretty much means it's infinite. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Lava vs. Magma ==<br />
<br />
I hadn't noticed it until just now, but both Lava and Magma occur in the game. I haven't seen this fact referenced in the wiki. Magma is a fluid which occurs in Magma Pipes, and in areas directly connected to Magma Pipes. Lava appears to occur in disconnected areas. I'm not sure what happens if you reconnect. If you use {{k|k}} to view a square, you'll see either Magma or Lava depths given. I'm not clear on what difference there is between the two fluids. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:There is none, just the name. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:30, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::both in df, and irl, molten rock in open air is called lava, while subterranean is called magma -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:40, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::: Ah, so magma which is ''Outside'' is lava. Cool. I guess my disjoint areas are all also outside :) I suppose we ought to mention this somewhere on the page? --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 19:19, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Magma vs puppy? ==<br />
<br />
I have encountered an interesting glitch. I have 2 puppies and a kitten in magma that aren't dying, and yes I have temperature setting on. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-570-magmavspuppy<br />
<br />
For those interested in trying to recreate it, I believe it has to do with designating the animal to slaughter while trying to throw it into a pit. A few of my dwarves were having pathing errors to try and slaughter them when I noticed the 3 invulnerable pests. After saving and reloading, the critters were insta-gibbed.<br />
--[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 04:59, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Chasm Confusion ==<br />
<br />
"The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores."<br />
<br />
Magma, at least in my experience, has always been surrounded only by Obsidian, as a result you cannot get any kind of insight as to the surrounding minerals, this differs from a chasm where the veins coming up to a chasm are directly reflected in the walls.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 04:18, 26 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:volcanoes and magmapipes can form large "chasms" above them, though it depends on how rocky the map is<br />
:Confirmed, various minerals and gems were visible in the 'crater' area two levels above the magma in my magma pipe. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:05, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== gruesome accident in older 2d version ==<br />
<br />
beware wooden floodgates<br />
not only do they burn(as I planned)<br />
but i scattered magma all around the room<br />
it rolled around quickly in all directions, flooding the tunnels, burning miners, smelters, war dogs and puppies alike without remorse.<br />
it has thus far filled the entire message screen with " someone" or "something" has burned to death <br />
it appears to gain mass from creeping down hallways! oh god...<br />
60 deaths, at least 25 dwarves and 15 puppies22:08, 28 July 2008 (EDT)[[User:Eerr|Eerr]]<br />
<br />
== Magma cooling? ==<br />
<br />
Ive noticed at a 1/7 depth, the magma seems to cool and go away. v40d --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:28, 3 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: That is probably what the author meant by "Magma that is only 1 deep "evaporates" over time." [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 19:58, 3 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Mechanisms on Non-Floodgates ==<br />
<br />
I want to power my underground smelting operations with magma, so I'm digging a tunnel into the side of a magma pipe. I don't want magma creatures coming in that way, so I need a set of [[bars]] across it. However, once I set up the bars, I need to open them to get a miner past and cut the last bit of stone and open the tunnel to the magma. I was going to just attach the bars to a level, but the question of what to use for the [[mechanism]] is bugging me. I don't want to waste my precious imported [[Bauxite]] on the mechanism, and once it closes behind the miner it never need to open again so it's fine it it melts, but not if the melting mechanism will cause the bars to deconstruct! Anyone know what happens to things other than floodgates when their mechanisms get melted off?<br />
--17:11, 7 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Or you could make your life much simpler with [[Fortification]]s. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: How? [[Fortification]]s allow liquid to pass through and stop creatures, yes, but you can't open them ''at all''. How am I supposed to get my dwarf back after he digs the last square of the channel if there's a fortification blocking the way?--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 15:49, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::I used a fortification to keep fire imps out of my magma channel; I dug a stairway totally unconnected to the rest of my fortress to a spot adjacent to the top layer of the magma pipe, then dug a tunnel from within the fortress to within one tile of the stairway. I fortified the tile that separated the two, then dug a channel (from outside) that let the magma flow against the "outside" face of the fortification. The magma flowed through the fortification and into the "inside" tunnel.<br />
<br />
:::For good measure, in case I want to drain the inside tunnel at some point, I put an s-turn in the inside tunnel and situated a nickel/bauxite floodgate around the corner, out of sight of the fortification.<br />
<br />
:::Viewed from above, basically it looks like this:<br />
<br />
~============<br />
~~=====..X...<br />
~~=====.=====<br />
~~=<#...=====<br />
~~===========<br />
~============<br />
<br />
~ - Magma pipe<br />
= - Unmined tile (wall)<br />
. - Mined tile (channel)<br />
< - Stairway<br />
# - Fortification<br />
X - Floodgate<br />
<br />
:::The last step here is to remove the tile between the magma and the stairway by digging a channel from one z-level up.<br />
:::--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::Why do you need a stairway? Couldn't you have just put the fortification on the tile where you have the stairway now? I'm also not sure why you need a turn as opposed to having the floodgate directly in line; i.e. {{qd|cols=7|~|`|╬|{{qd/ch{{!}}X{{!}}888|ccc}}|.|.|.}} <br />
::::[[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:55, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::::I believe you can't create a fortification from above, though I could be wrong. It doesn't cost anything to dig one extra z-level down to get yourself a tile with an open face front and back which fortifies up nicely. Also, I put the kink in the tunnel just to be paranoid -- I don't want things shooting fireballs down it. I'm not sure if a fireball can destroy a floodgate. Again, it didn't cost me anything to make it a touch more elaborate.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::Well, if I dug in from above, I could just use a non-retracting set of bars. Fortifications allow liquid to flow, but they slow it down. But I'm not digging at the top level of the pipe. I suppose I could just use a sacrificial non-magma-safe floodgate, set up the bars behind it, and then open it and let it melt.<br />
::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:20, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Magma Ate My Wall ==<br />
While digging my channel to a magma pipe, I came across a vein of Lignite which ran perpendicular to my channel. I mined it out, hauled the lignite over to my fortress, and then built some walls over the side passages. It's now less than a year later, and one of those wall-units is missing. Unless there's some way a fire imp or other magma creature can destroy walls, the magma must have melted the wall. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 07:12, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Wasn't that wall a Lignite wall ? It may have burnt, then. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:46, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:Yes, it sounds like it was a liginite wall. Magma will ignite coke-bearing rock, this has been the case for a long time. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:56, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:: No, the wall was built from rock salt. All the lignite was hauled away, and as an economic stone, not a material choice I could have made by accident. The floor is still lignite though. Think that may have been a factor? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:58, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::That's possible, but I find it unlikely. Also, I misinterpreted what you meant by 'built a wall', didn't realize it was a construction. I thought it was a smoothed rock face. It's been a persisting question (at least in #df on synIRC) if magma will melt constructions not made of bauxite. You may have just answered that for us. Perhaps you could test by letting magma into a 5x5 room with one natural rock pillar in the middle, and a wall construction of the same type of stone? That'd answer the question once and for all, I think. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:11, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::I've had magma against some of my constructed walls for years and years without damage. A good thing too, I've got quarters on the other side! They're almost certainly basalt. I wouldn't rule out the vanishing wall being caused by a burning floor; lignite can burn for years before vanishing. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:14, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Interesting. It was probably the liginite floor, then, but that begs the question of how a burning floor could consume a wall; stone should be fire-safe. A really interesting situation, to be sure. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::Also -- as for 'not a material choice I could have made by accident', I've found my masons will happily convert expensive imported ores and flux into blocks if they decide your depot's closer than the nearest basalt. And once anything's blocked, it's useless but for constructions. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:39, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::: @Corona: That's for a mason's workshop, though. When you build walls, you choose the specific rocks to build from. Although, I have to say that I've never had a mason use a rock from the restricted list.<br />
::::: For clarity, here's an image capture. The east-west shaft was my original tunnel towards the magma pipe. Every mined-out tile north or south of that shaft was Lignite. However, the opening just below the cursor, where my missing wall is supposed to be, is listed as Rock Salt as well. This is because dwarves kept building that section of wall from the wrong side, and I had to deconstruct it and put it back up several times -- which kills our "burning lignite floor" theory. Hrm.....now that I think about it, I can't be sure that I did build that wall in the end. I can't remember if a dwarf ever built it from the correct side. I'll let you know if another wall section disappears.<br />
[[Image:romeofalling1.GIF]]<br />
<br />
--[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:54, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Disambiguation ==<br />
<br />
I see the term ''magma pipe'' and ''magma vent'' being used interchangeably. Do these terms mean the same thing? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:25, 8 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Basically, yes. Magma vents, however, are visible from the surface, whereas magma pipes are not. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:26, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Magma Vs. Sand ==<br />
<br />
In a failed experiment with wooden screw pumps with magma proof blocks, I have discovered something horrible and intriguing. Magma/lava can burn it's way through sand, so now I have an above ground magma cistern half flooding back into the magma pipe I filled it from, and half into my underground workshops through 2 z-levels of sand flooring. I have picture proof too, but I have no idea how to upload pictures from my laptop to a wiki. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:"Upload file", toolbox, left side of this page.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::Ah, thanks. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Do you mean it goes down z-levels, or does it just move across the sand? magma can normally move across anything except water, I think. --[[User:Destor|Destor]] 14:41, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:Vertically, through z-levels. It created a hole that wasn't there before through a sand floor, into my main hallway, and then through the floor there into my workshops and stockpiles. From there, it simply followed the path of least resistance down the stairs and into the living quarters (not shown). The magma seems to only tunnel through floor tiles that have no wall tile below them, which is understandable but I've never had this happen before. Though, admittedly I have never tried to create a lava cistern on top of sand before. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<gallery><br />
Image:DF-0.JPG|Above ground (sorry for large size despite jpeg compression)<br />
Image:DF-1.JPG|1 z-level down (main hallway)<br />
Image:DF-2.JPG|2 z-levels down (workshops and rock, bar, and wood stockpiles)<br />
</gallery><br />
:::Oh what [[Losing|FUN!]] --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]]<br />
::::A bit late, but are you sure you didn't somehow cause a [[cave-in]] and punch a hole through the floor? I've '''never''' observed magma destroying walls or floors on its own, even those made of sand. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:19, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Good timing because I just observed this myself and it definitely wasn't a cave in. Magma created an open space in a white sand floor and began flooding my fortress. Had breached the underground river so it could also have been a tower cap burning but I didn't think that happened. [[User:Pti|Pti]] 21:33, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Incidentally, that was with temperature off. [[User:Pti|Pti]] 21:35, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::That would actually be an interesting thing to check - my current fort has a short underground magma channel, hollow underneath, and having sand floors, but the layer underneath is all chalk so no tower-caps would be able to grow. I could possibly test it by adding some mud next to the channels, since I've observed nearby muddy floors to permit tower-cap growth above stone layers. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:00, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Regarding Boatmurdered ==<br />
<br />
I have this intense desire to flood the world in magma. (yes, I'm playing the 2D Dwarf Fortress. Sue me.) How did they get the magma onto the surface? Last I checked, pumps don't exist, sooo... --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 02:45, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:Channels and aqueducts... They'll transport any liquid anywhere. And bridges too!--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]]<br />
::But magma's on the "Z-level" below. How's it supposed to get on the actual level of the elephants? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:50, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::You're still thinking in 3D. Magma is "in" the tiles where the river is, and will be in the tiles where you dig a channel, and you want to get it in the tiles where the elephants are, by digging a channel from the magma river to the outside and "releasing" it from the channel using a floodgate. The miner who digs the part of the channel that connects it to the magma river itself might get killed, since they always stood ''in'' the channel square while digging it in the 2D version. Put a floodgate just beyond it before digging it out so you can shut off the flow, since you will make mistakes.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:36, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Yes, I realize I'm thinking in 3D. Exactly how does the magma get out of the channel and onto the ground? Because last I checked, fluids didn't do that naturally. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:44, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::::That's just the way the 2D version works. Channel next to liquid = liquid now in channel. Tile at end of channel not floodgate (or other liquid stopper) = liquid now on ground. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:47, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Read [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Channel#Game_mechanics Channel] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Irrigation#Controlled_flooding Irrigation] on the archive wiki. You have to play with channels and floodgates for a bit before it all makes sense, though. The 2D version tended to get real kludgy when it came to fluids. Try to get a farm going to understand the basics of the 2D channels, floodgates, and fluids.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:07, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== No little errors ==<br />
<br />
I just made a discovery. There is nothing like small error in the terms of magma engineering. After attempting to make my lava moat, I accidentally dug channel one tile longer, than it should be. At first, it went good. But then, magma flowed over my wall and flooded entire fortress. Remember - no little errors. [[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 12:19, 30 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Export the local map ==<br />
<br />
"...you can try exporting the local map of the world which can be much more quickly searched for the distinctive red ≈ symbol. " How does one do that? --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 02:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:Right after generating your world, there is an option to export the map. I think it maps to 'p' but I can't swear to it now. I don't know if there is a way to do it at a time other than right after generation. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:45, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
::Legends screen lets you export maps as well, but they don't have the special features enabled, even with all applicable options enabled. Probably on the todo list 'somewhere', but can't imagine it's even semi-important. So you'll have to rely on worldgen exports. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::I thought it was just the region map you can export, not the local map, and a red ≈ just means desert and/or red sand on that map. You can see named volcanoes on it though -- red ^s.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:16, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::It's mapped to "P". Capital. [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 21:01, 12 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Temperature setting ==<br />
<br />
While magma will not cause fires while the temperature is turned off in the init file, it seems the game remembers at least some of the fires it would have caused. I was playing with temperature off and tunneled into magma rather carelessly, knowing it wouldn't hurt me, later, when I turned the temperature on in that game, the dwarves that came into contact with the magma were immediately set on fire. This was about a year later in game. I checked back several times by quitting without saving, every time I turned the temperature on, those same dwarves caught fire, with the temperature off, there was no indication of fire what so ever.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 23:36, 23 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Oh wow, I can imagine tons of uses for that, especially when toady makes it so that you can go and raid the goblins... Kamikaze dwarves, anyone? Well, I guess it should be in the article, but it would be nice to do more testing first. I think that if a dwarf falls in water, he stops burning. So if you could find out if they, after being put out with temperature off, still lit up next time we could put it in. Do more research, I would but I have had trouble with DF lately, it has been mad slow.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 00:01, 24 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Well, temperatures are flows, and items remember how warm they are, so presumably the dwarves that burst into flames are still at a ridiculous temperature and haven't cooled down. That, or the coating of magma on their bodies is causing them to burn...--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 00:36, 24 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::: It has got to be the coating, as you say. Turning off the tempurature means that they should STOP remembering. The flows should not be calculated, and the items should have nothing to remember. Thats why turning it off speeds up the game, especially in extreme environs or around magma. There was, however, nothing listed that I could find, so this "magma coating" is invisible to the interface. It should also be noted that it was apparently the dwarves who caught fire first, and their burning flesh that apparently set their clothes on fire moments later.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 12:29, 24 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::Check specifically for magma splatters on the dwarfs in question. I wouldn't be surprised if they picked them up, similar to when creatures get doused in water. The liquid tends to stick all over them, and rarely goes away on it's own. Best bet to preserve them would be to construct a waterfall-shower, and hope it washes away the magma spatter, rather than creating obsidian ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:11, 25 January 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yer, looks like the dawrfs got their Pigtail socks a coating of magma. Then magma goes boom.--[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 08:08, 19 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Site finder==<br />
<br />
Will magma Pipes always show up on the local map? Because my site finder keeps throwing up sites with no visible magma on the local map. --[[User:ArneHD|ArneHD]] 17:09, 12 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:No, magma pipes don't always reach the surface, and therefore won't always show up on the embark map. You can find out it's actual location by taking a guess based off of what stone layers are shown where in the embark map, or you can go to your init.txt and change SHOW_EMBARK_M_PIPE to ALWAYS. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 17:29, 12 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Magma-swimming Baby ==<br />
<br />
For some reason, someone has dropped their baby into the magma. The strange thing is, it aint burning up. Its lying there, and apparently has done so for a long time. Its hungry and thirsty. --[[User:Myroc|Myroc]] 15:26, 21 February 2009 (EST)<br />
:I once had a mother get trapped behind a magma bulkhead with her baby. She died promptly. The baby just sorta sat in the magma flow for about a year before it died too. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:40, 21 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Spawn Distance For Creatures? ==<br />
<br />
How far from the magma pipe can fire snakes (and imps, if they spawn) appear? Also, are they limited to spawning near the magma pipe itself, or ANY magma (i.e., a magma tap leading across the map into your fortress)?<br />
:The pipe itself--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Hidden Magma Pipe ==<br />
So I just got the message 'You have discovered a magma pipe.' This made me very happy, because I had no idea that magma was on my map, and the area is completely devoid of trees, which means I won't have to worry about charcoal as much. Anywhos, after getting the message and looking around the level... I can't find it anywhere! I assumed that you get the message when your dwarf mines a tile next to the pipe or something, but I can't find it anywhere, not even on the local map. Magma forges are enabled, so that must mean that I did find one... But is there any way of finding the darn thing? I assumed it was from some of my exploratory mining, but after looking around that area and even digging further into the rock, I don't see anything. Is it possible that the magma pipe is off the level or something, so I get the message but can't see it? Arg, this is so annoying. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 00:34, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Try zooming in on any magma related creatures from the units menu. You could also zoom in on the newest (last) obsidian stone listed on the stocks menu I think. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 04:21, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Check for a [[Magma#Using_magma|Magma Cap]]. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:12, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I tried looking at the units list... Only a couple dead kobolds, a few camels, and my dwarves... So that's a no go. And there are 15 obsidian stones in my stocks, but the zoom function is grayed out... And my bookkeeper is at 100% efficiency. I also tried looking for a magma cap, but I couldn't find one. Aha! Success! I made an obsidian stockpile, and watched where my all-knowing dwarves went, and I found the source of the obsidian. I tried digging from that point, and I found it! It's a bit small, but I suppose the diameter doesn't matter much when it's a magma pipe. Thanks for your help, guys. Also, I know that talk pages aren't meant to be used as forums or anything, but is it against the rules and/or frowned upon to ask questions on the talk pages?<br />
<br />
::: It's fine, it might even be a good thing, since we can add other tidbit of information to a main article if needed. Feel free to ask question (as long as it is in the appropriate place. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 13:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Items Caught In Cooling Magma ==<br />
After one of my wrestlers got pulled into a magma vent, I noticed that his Steel equipment only sank a single Z level. This brings up the idea that, if I were to pour water over the surface and harden that Z level, I could presumably recover the equipment. But will items caught in hardening magma be destroyed? Or merely trapped in obsidian that you can mine out? --[[User:Scarecrow|Scarecrow]] 16:37, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hm, good question. Wouldn't it make sense that the item just gets trapped, and you just have to mine out the hardened rock to get the item back? That is, if it's resistant to magma and/or the temperature's off. Right? Why would cooling the magma destroy the object? Unless the game had it coded where like, a tile of stone being created removes all the items from the block. Which would suck. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 17:48, 9 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Items lost in rivers or moats can be recovered by mining the ice in winter. It is not unreasonable to assume that magma/obsidian behaves like water/ice in this respect. This begs testing, obviously. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 21:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Tested this by a) dropping (non-magma safe) rocks into a river and then pouring in Lava, they were recoverable. b) putting a couple of similar rocks as well as a nickel-silver bar and a constructed nickle-silver bridge into a room, letting enough magma in to cover the floor, and then adding water before the rocks had melted. All items were recoverable and the bridge was still intact after digging it out. --[[User:Mael|Mael]] 00:08, 15 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Nice! That means my Obsidian Tomb trap concept just got a lot better! --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 14:10, 20 August 2009<br />
<br />
== Flies spawning from magma? ==<br />
<br />
I don't know why, but I've observed flies (normal and acorn flies, mostly normal flies) spawning at the edge of magma where its melting rock. It's particularily noticeable when you have magma channels under your forging area since the confined space tends to concentrate them. Also, they will come out of any magma access holes you have dug. I'm using the Mayday graphics mod, so no idea if it's an artifact. My theory is that they represent vapors coming out of the magma as it melts the rock it encounters. I also added this fact to the flies page as well. --[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 14:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:This has happened to me as well, it dosn't have anything to do with the graphics mod because I don't use it, I thought it was part of the civi forge mod I have been using, my personal theory it that flies spawn from refuse and molten rocks are refuse, it might also be from the dirt that magma makes because once I found a dwarf going down to my obsidian farm to clean something, the magma had cleared because my watergate broke(I suspect that an elven plot or carp are the cause).The ground had marks on it and I saw my cleaner cleaning it up.The flies may be attracted to "dirty" tiles but i'm not sure.--[[User:Supercharazard|Supercharazard]] 17:30, 12 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I have noticed this same behavior in vanilla DF--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:20, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Digging into volcano wall ==<br />
<br />
While the article says you need unbelievably fast to avoid getting incinierated while digging into the obsidian wall, this doesn't seem to be true. More important than speed is to make sure the digger has a designated mining section a few blocks away to immiedately start working on so he doesn't get that split second pause before switching labor. With this method I got a miner with merely "agile" out safely. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 04:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== digging away the obsidian ==<br />
<br />
There's something that I've not been able to find an answer for anywhere, which is if I dig away at the obsidian walls of the magma pipe (without touching the very inner layer of obsidian), will magma thats above the obisidan tile be able to leak down or is there a floor under the magma tile (above the obsidian) that'll prevent it from spilling out? --[[User:Kain|Kain]] 21:26, 26 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:If there was a natural tile one z-level down, then there is a floor there. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 00:06, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Producing Obsidian section ==<br />
<br />
The example directly on the page is difficult to understand--some diagrams would be helpful. Really, detailed designs like that should be on user pages anyway. It would be swell if the person who added this design put it on their own user page and linked to that from here. --[[User:King of the Internet|King of the Internet]] 01:29, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed, needs some simple diagram(s) (not over-specific, easily understood/modified to suit individual needs), but also needs to be 1) [[Character_table|standard notation]], and 2) on this page. If it's on a user page, other users really can't edit it if needed (for instance, to standardize the map symbols - the wall, specifically). --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:07, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Edit - upon reflection, there's every reason to give this topic its own page. [[Obsidian farming]]. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:53, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lava ==<br />
<br />
Lava is the same substance, but this name for the material is seen less often seen. <br />It seems to be the result of a 1/7 magma flow onto floor tiles, before it evaporates.{{verify}}<br />
<br />
Magma that occurs [[Tile attributes|above ground]] is referred to as '''Lava'''.<br />
Nope, sorry - I may not have the whole definition, but your limits are just wrong. I noticed "lava" underground while piercing an aquifer. It had been pumped down from the surface, but it was then underground, and had overflow from making obsidian on water onto a floor tile - and none of the other magma doing the work was "lava", it was all "magma". So was every bit of the magma vent that was exposed. So... I don't know where that leaves us, but for now neither may be (completely) right.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:55, 28 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*I've got an above-ground magma pipeline that briefly passes through an underground passage - it becomes Lava once it goes above ground, turns ''back'' into Magma once it enters the subterranean tunnel, then becomes lava again when it emerges. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:30, 28 September 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Magma&diff=5512840d Talk:Magma2009-10-15T15:17:50Z<p>Zchris13: /* Mountain Layers & magma? */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Steel?==<br />
Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the [[Magma smelter]] article, which state that using [[Fire-safe materials]] is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
:Magmaproof is not the same as fireproof. Buildings that work WITH magma need to be fireproof. Rocks and iron are fireproof. Wood is not. Buildings that are going IN the magma, such as floodgates, their mechanisms, and pumps need to be magmaproof materials such as steel and bauxite. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 01:51, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The "must have steel" thing is from the old 2d version. Now, it is only required to be fire safe, such as iron and steel, most other metals, and most types of rock.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:10, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Disabling temperature?==<br />
If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
: Yes, dwarves seem to be able to swim through magma unharmed when temperature is off(I've had them shoved in during a fight, not 100% sure), but they'll violently resist this, even without danger. Water will still steam, it seems to be hard coded. --[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 16:50, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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==Mountain Layers & magma?==<br />
Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_rocks#Naming this article] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock#Mineralogical_classification this site] list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?<br />
:It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.<br />
::So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:::A small patch of obsidian is a dead giveaway for a magma pipe.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:11, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==magma chamber not visible==<br />
On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
:You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--[[User:SL|SL]] 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this "cap", I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:::Turning on the "see magma pools and pipes" option in the init file would be a great help for trouble shooting on this topic.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:44, 23 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I have seen this "cap" of obsidian over pipes in all temperatures.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:17, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
== Magmapool/pipe section ==<br />
Zara, you recently added some info about all magma pipes having cliffs over them -- this is incorrect. I've played a very large number of magma pipe maps, and very often they are completely exposed to the air. I've also removed the line about them being "as small as two z-levels!", because it needs better phrasing. I may fix it later. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 22:39, 26 February 2008 (EST)<br />
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:in the meantime I had figured that out, too. But what is the difference between a magma pipe and a volcano, then? <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Zara|Zara]]</small><br />
<br />
::As far as I know, the distinction comes down to whether it reaches the surface. If so, some would then call it a volcano rather than a magma pipe. I believe that magma pipes which reach the surface (or volcanoes, if you will) are the only ones which actually show up on the embark map, while underground magma pipes and magma pools do not (unless you use the Regional Prospector tool). --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 23:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:::No, similar to Moonanibe,I've played on several maps where, on the embark screen, the magma pipe was only visible using regional prospector. However, as soon as I took a look at the place, I found the magma partly (or completely) exposed on the surface. [[User:Zara|Zara]] 01:59, 11 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::Magma pipes are not 'necessarily' part of a mountain, while volcanoes make a mountain around them during world gen. Comes down to a number game. Volcanoes have a magma number of 100, while pipes have a number between 99 and some lower value.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:48, 23 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Added new section ==<br />
I added a section regarding "Built objects vs. Magma". I think it's absolutely vital we establish what does and doesn't melt in magma, in a clean list. There are quite a few things that could be added to that list (Constructed floors for one) so please, do add to it. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 17:31, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:Have you tested the bridges? I conjecture that all buildings and constructions without mechanisms are perfectly fine with magma contact. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:: The bridges part was cut from another section of the article and moved in there. Since it was already here, I assumed it was accurate. I haven't actually checked myself. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 16:54, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:I will verify bridges one way or the other. I'm pretty sure they cant melt, though. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:03, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::they dont melt, as they arent actually within the magma. that was copied over from the 2d wiki and nobody removed it -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 22:29, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::: I noticed you removed the line about bridges. It seems silly not to mention them at all, so I've written up a line about them working no matter what the material and stuck it in. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 23:12, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::::yea they should definately be mentioned, wasnt thinking when i removed it completely(recovering from a bad cold and brain is still a bit foggy) -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 00:49, 20 February 2008 (EST)<br />
Tested. Non-magmaproof bridges -over- magma are fine. Non-magma-proof submerged in magma will melt. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:39, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br />
: Interesting. I'll edit the article to say as much. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 15:30, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br />
This is what I've found: ANY Construction is safe from magma (even wooden ones. Walls, stairs, fortifications, etc). Any building is unaffected by magma if the magma doesn't occupy the same tile as the building. Example: a door is safe if it's closed, even if it's made of non-safe rock or wood. If you lock it open with a mechanism, or if it's jammed, then the magma interacts with the components, burning/melting them if they can't stand the heat. A pump made of wood or any other material is also safe, as long as the magma doesn't flow *over* it. Since the "out" side acts as a wall, if it's correctly isolated from the magma it won't get damaged and will pump the magma without any trouble. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 01:41, 21 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Anyone clear on Vertical Bars in magma? I am attempting to keep imps and such from moving through my magma feeding tunnel and was curious if anyone had any good solutions to this problem. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 16:23, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I just use a bauxite wall grate, it works fine for me. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:02, 15 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
:: Ah, thank you, I just wanted to be sure they didn't melt regardless --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 02:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br><br />
I made a few tests with magma and buildings/constructions and I can confirm some known results and I can provide a few new aspects. Constructions (b->C) are magma safe (walls, floors, stairs, others not tested). No matter what the material is.<br />
*<s>bridges build with bauxite *rocks* are not magma safe (bauxite mechanism or not)</s><br />
*bridges build with bauxite *blocks* are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)<br />
*bridges build with steel bars are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)<br />
Open test: bridge with blocks considered as not magma safe.<br />
<br>[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:14, 11 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
::I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The bridges build with bauxite rocks were previously connected with a lever. Unfortunately the mechanism is not removed from the bridge when you remove the lever. Well, at least it seems that the rules for magma safe materials are valid for bridges. With one exception: raised bridges can contain any mechanism, only when magma flows over the bridge it is destroyed.--[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 13:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Replenishing Magma ==<br />
<br />
Since magma replenishes now, I've rewritten that snippet from the article. If I've missed something(a kind of magma not regenerating, though this always worked for me on several maps), feel free to correct things. --[[User:Romantic Warrior|Romantic Warrior]] 15:47, 18 February 2008 (EST).<br />
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<br />
I have a very good feeling that the replenishing magma is just "pressurized" magma. I haven't tested fully, but i have poured water over a magma pipe and re-mined it, and in that case the magma flow was upwards. --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 03:49, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
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<br />
I'm playing a magma pipe right now, and after filling a reservoir to build my forges over, I noticed the main pipe section refilled itself a little bit. It's not back to what it used to be, but there is definitely some regeneration going on. Seems to be going at an excruciatingly slow pace though. About 7 years into the fort and the pipe is nowhere close to being completely refilled. --[[Special:Contributions/65.94.8.163|65.94.8.163]] 14:12, 11 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Temperature ==<br />
<br />
Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:I'm not sure how the temperature calculations are done, but I CAN tell you that magma will melt nearby ice. Check out http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-153-meltingwateronglacier to see it in action. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 15:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)<br />
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::It should be a flow, just like the magma itself. One of the other visible results is warm stone. The same can probably be said for water and damp stone as well. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)<br />
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::It also makes sure water stays heated; a friend of mine keeps magma under a few of his natural pools to make sure they stay thawed during the cold winter months (all but the middle summer month!) --Gotthard 17:45, 12 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Flow?==<br />
<br />
I have a magma pipe (pit) in my current fortress... I breached the pipe from the lowest level because of the diagonal bug when I discovered it, and it filled some long exploratory shafts. Since then, the top magma layer is down to 5/7 and 6/7 running all over the surface. After a little while, it's easy to see that magma act curiously: instead of bouncing from wall to wall like real water physics, in my game the 5/7 (the flow) seems to all move in the same direction at the same time. The direction change often, and seem to change randomly. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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There is another way to stop a flow of magma that's moving through a tunnel. You can go one z-level higher, dig to a spot above the magma-filled tunnel, then build a channel above where the magma is flowing and assign it as a Pond Zone. So long as you have buckets and a viable Water Source zone, a dwarf will come along and drop water on the magma, instantly turning it into obsidian and blocking the tunnel. --[[User:Stromko]] January 6th, 2007<br />
: I've tried this - it rarely works. Usually you just destroy 1/7 of the magma per bucket, along with the water from the bucket, and nothing turns to obsidian. You need to hit it with larger quantities of water at once to get reliable results. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:35, 6 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Actually, you have to hit it from two levels up. Just one won't do anything.--[[User:Demosthenes|Demosthenes]] 17:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br />
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I have added a section to the main page on magma flow, based on frequent confusion in the forums, and on some investigations I have been making into the behavior of magma when pumped (I'm not the first to discover this behavior, but I did go to a fair degree of effort to test how it behaves in differing circumstances) --[[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] 21:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Now THAT is how you make a diagram! Awesome. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:20, 8 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Criteria for Magma Buildings==<br />
<br />
Is there a special condition that must be met before Magma Smelters/Forges/Furnaces and so on will appear on the build menus? I have a magma pit and some channels over it so that I can access it for magma, but I cannot build any magma-using buildings. - [[User:Confused Rat|Confused Rat]]<br />
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:Magma furnaces and forges need a hole somewhere on the ground where they are built. This is to allow the furnace/forge to take the heat from the magma as they are used. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:43, 25 January 2008 (EST)<br />
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:What he means is that the magma furnaces don't even appear in the build menu. This is because you haven't discovered magma through natural means. The only way this can happen is if you used reveal to find the magma. You'll have to use the [[Utilities#Enable_Magma_Buildings|Enable Magma Buildings]] utility to make them appear. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:03, 25 January 2008 (EST)<br />
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:Reclaimed fortresses may be bugged. If you reclaimed you fortress you probably can't do anything with it without 3rd party programs (like one mentioned above). Magma in [[pit]]s isn't enough to allow magma buildings. You need to discover true magma pipe and get pop-up informing about this. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:I had a similar problem in a human settlement, so I do not know if the bug applies there, too... but there IS a chance I abandoned and reclaimed at one point, so it could just be that --[[User:Zatnik|Zatnik]] 05:02, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br />
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== Infinity Generators? ==<br />
<br />
Because magma is currently a finite resource, would it be a good idea to add how to make an infinity generator as workarround untill Toady gives us some more of the stuff?<small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Highlord Asehujiko|Highlord Asehujiko]] ([[User talk:Highlord Asehujiko|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Highlord Asehujiko|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
:Not on the main article as it would easily be considered cheating. In here, or the [[cheating]] article itself would be fine, the latter probably more appropriate as it could be applied to water as well for those scorching maps. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:16, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Magma regenerates in most cases, which pretty much means it's infinite. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Lava vs. Magma ==<br />
<br />
I hadn't noticed it until just now, but both Lava and Magma occur in the game. I haven't seen this fact referenced in the wiki. Magma is a fluid which occurs in Magma Pipes, and in areas directly connected to Magma Pipes. Lava appears to occur in disconnected areas. I'm not sure what happens if you reconnect. If you use {{k|k}} to view a square, you'll see either Magma or Lava depths given. I'm not clear on what difference there is between the two fluids. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:There is none, just the name. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:30, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::both in df, and irl, molten rock in open air is called lava, while subterranean is called magma -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:40, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::: Ah, so magma which is ''Outside'' is lava. Cool. I guess my disjoint areas are all also outside :) I suppose we ought to mention this somewhere on the page? --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 19:19, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Magma vs puppy? ==<br />
<br />
I have encountered an interesting glitch. I have 2 puppies and a kitten in magma that aren't dying, and yes I have temperature setting on. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-570-magmavspuppy<br />
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For those interested in trying to recreate it, I believe it has to do with designating the animal to slaughter while trying to throw it into a pit. A few of my dwarves were having pathing errors to try and slaughter them when I noticed the 3 invulnerable pests. After saving and reloading, the critters were insta-gibbed.<br />
--[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 04:59, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Chasm Confusion ==<br />
<br />
"The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores."<br />
<br />
Magma, at least in my experience, has always been surrounded only by Obsidian, as a result you cannot get any kind of insight as to the surrounding minerals, this differs from a chasm where the veins coming up to a chasm are directly reflected in the walls.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 04:18, 26 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:volcanoes and magmapipes can form large "chasms" above them, though it depends on how rocky the map is<br />
:Confirmed, various minerals and gems were visible in the 'crater' area two levels above the magma in my magma pipe. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:05, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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== gruesome accident in older 2d version ==<br />
<br />
beware wooden floodgates<br />
not only do they burn(as I planned)<br />
but i scattered magma all around the room<br />
it rolled around quickly in all directions, flooding the tunnels, burning miners, smelters, war dogs and puppies alike without remorse.<br />
it has thus far filled the entire message screen with " someone" or "something" has burned to death <br />
it appears to gain mass from creeping down hallways! oh god...<br />
60 deaths, at least 25 dwarves and 15 puppies22:08, 28 July 2008 (EDT)[[User:Eerr|Eerr]]<br />
<br />
== Magma cooling? ==<br />
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Ive noticed at a 1/7 depth, the magma seems to cool and go away. v40d --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:28, 3 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
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: That is probably what the author meant by "Magma that is only 1 deep "evaporates" over time." [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 19:58, 3 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Mechanisms on Non-Floodgates ==<br />
<br />
I want to power my underground smelting operations with magma, so I'm digging a tunnel into the side of a magma pipe. I don't want magma creatures coming in that way, so I need a set of [[bars]] across it. However, once I set up the bars, I need to open them to get a miner past and cut the last bit of stone and open the tunnel to the magma. I was going to just attach the bars to a level, but the question of what to use for the [[mechanism]] is bugging me. I don't want to waste my precious imported [[Bauxite]] on the mechanism, and once it closes behind the miner it never need to open again so it's fine it it melts, but not if the melting mechanism will cause the bars to deconstruct! Anyone know what happens to things other than floodgates when their mechanisms get melted off?<br />
--17:11, 7 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
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: Or you could make your life much simpler with [[Fortification]]s. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:: How? [[Fortification]]s allow liquid to pass through and stop creatures, yes, but you can't open them ''at all''. How am I supposed to get my dwarf back after he digs the last square of the channel if there's a fortification blocking the way?--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 15:49, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:::I used a fortification to keep fire imps out of my magma channel; I dug a stairway totally unconnected to the rest of my fortress to a spot adjacent to the top layer of the magma pipe, then dug a tunnel from within the fortress to within one tile of the stairway. I fortified the tile that separated the two, then dug a channel (from outside) that let the magma flow against the "outside" face of the fortification. The magma flowed through the fortification and into the "inside" tunnel.<br />
<br />
:::For good measure, in case I want to drain the inside tunnel at some point, I put an s-turn in the inside tunnel and situated a nickel/bauxite floodgate around the corner, out of sight of the fortification.<br />
<br />
:::Viewed from above, basically it looks like this:<br />
<br />
~============<br />
~~=====..X...<br />
~~=====.=====<br />
~~=<#...=====<br />
~~===========<br />
~============<br />
<br />
~ - Magma pipe<br />
= - Unmined tile (wall)<br />
. - Mined tile (channel)<br />
< - Stairway<br />
# - Fortification<br />
X - Floodgate<br />
<br />
:::The last step here is to remove the tile between the magma and the stairway by digging a channel from one z-level up.<br />
:::--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::Why do you need a stairway? Couldn't you have just put the fortification on the tile where you have the stairway now? I'm also not sure why you need a turn as opposed to having the floodgate directly in line; i.e. {{qd|cols=7|~|`|╬|{{qd/ch{{!}}X{{!}}888|ccc}}|.|.|.}} <br />
::::[[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:55, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::::I believe you can't create a fortification from above, though I could be wrong. It doesn't cost anything to dig one extra z-level down to get yourself a tile with an open face front and back which fortifies up nicely. Also, I put the kink in the tunnel just to be paranoid -- I don't want things shooting fireballs down it. I'm not sure if a fireball can destroy a floodgate. Again, it didn't cost me anything to make it a touch more elaborate.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::Well, if I dug in from above, I could just use a non-retracting set of bars. Fortifications allow liquid to flow, but they slow it down. But I'm not digging at the top level of the pipe. I suppose I could just use a sacrificial non-magma-safe floodgate, set up the bars behind it, and then open it and let it melt.<br />
::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:20, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Magma Ate My Wall ==<br />
While digging my channel to a magma pipe, I came across a vein of Lignite which ran perpendicular to my channel. I mined it out, hauled the lignite over to my fortress, and then built some walls over the side passages. It's now less than a year later, and one of those wall-units is missing. Unless there's some way a fire imp or other magma creature can destroy walls, the magma must have melted the wall. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 07:12, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Wasn't that wall a Lignite wall ? It may have burnt, then. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:46, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:Yes, it sounds like it was a liginite wall. Magma will ignite coke-bearing rock, this has been the case for a long time. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:56, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:: No, the wall was built from rock salt. All the lignite was hauled away, and as an economic stone, not a material choice I could have made by accident. The floor is still lignite though. Think that may have been a factor? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:58, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::That's possible, but I find it unlikely. Also, I misinterpreted what you meant by 'built a wall', didn't realize it was a construction. I thought it was a smoothed rock face. It's been a persisting question (at least in #df on synIRC) if magma will melt constructions not made of bauxite. You may have just answered that for us. Perhaps you could test by letting magma into a 5x5 room with one natural rock pillar in the middle, and a wall construction of the same type of stone? That'd answer the question once and for all, I think. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:11, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::I've had magma against some of my constructed walls for years and years without damage. A good thing too, I've got quarters on the other side! They're almost certainly basalt. I wouldn't rule out the vanishing wall being caused by a burning floor; lignite can burn for years before vanishing. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:14, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Interesting. It was probably the liginite floor, then, but that begs the question of how a burning floor could consume a wall; stone should be fire-safe. A really interesting situation, to be sure. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::Also -- as for 'not a material choice I could have made by accident', I've found my masons will happily convert expensive imported ores and flux into blocks if they decide your depot's closer than the nearest basalt. And once anything's blocked, it's useless but for constructions. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:39, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::: @Corona: That's for a mason's workshop, though. When you build walls, you choose the specific rocks to build from. Although, I have to say that I've never had a mason use a rock from the restricted list.<br />
::::: For clarity, here's an image capture. The east-west shaft was my original tunnel towards the magma pipe. Every mined-out tile north or south of that shaft was Lignite. However, the opening just below the cursor, where my missing wall is supposed to be, is listed as Rock Salt as well. This is because dwarves kept building that section of wall from the wrong side, and I had to deconstruct it and put it back up several times -- which kills our "burning lignite floor" theory. Hrm.....now that I think about it, I can't be sure that I did build that wall in the end. I can't remember if a dwarf ever built it from the correct side. I'll let you know if another wall section disappears.<br />
[[Image:romeofalling1.GIF]]<br />
<br />
--[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:54, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Disambiguation ==<br />
<br />
I see the term ''magma pipe'' and ''magma vent'' being used interchangeably. Do these terms mean the same thing? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:25, 8 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Basically, yes. Magma vents, however, are visible from the surface, whereas magma pipes are not. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:26, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Magma Vs. Sand ==<br />
<br />
In a failed experiment with wooden screw pumps with magma proof blocks, I have discovered something horrible and intriguing. Magma/lava can burn it's way through sand, so now I have an above ground magma cistern half flooding back into the magma pipe I filled it from, and half into my underground workshops through 2 z-levels of sand flooring. I have picture proof too, but I have no idea how to upload pictures from my laptop to a wiki. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:"Upload file", toolbox, left side of this page.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::Ah, thanks. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Do you mean it goes down z-levels, or does it just move across the sand? magma can normally move across anything except water, I think. --[[User:Destor|Destor]] 14:41, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:Vertically, through z-levels. It created a hole that wasn't there before through a sand floor, into my main hallway, and then through the floor there into my workshops and stockpiles. From there, it simply followed the path of least resistance down the stairs and into the living quarters (not shown). The magma seems to only tunnel through floor tiles that have no wall tile below them, which is understandable but I've never had this happen before. Though, admittedly I have never tried to create a lava cistern on top of sand before. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<gallery><br />
Image:DF-0.JPG|Above ground (sorry for large size despite jpeg compression)<br />
Image:DF-1.JPG|1 z-level down (main hallway)<br />
Image:DF-2.JPG|2 z-levels down (workshops and rock, bar, and wood stockpiles)<br />
</gallery><br />
:::Oh what [[Losing|FUN!]] --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]]<br />
::::A bit late, but are you sure you didn't somehow cause a [[cave-in]] and punch a hole through the floor? I've '''never''' observed magma destroying walls or floors on its own, even those made of sand. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:19, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Good timing because I just observed this myself and it definitely wasn't a cave in. Magma created an open space in a white sand floor and began flooding my fortress. Had breached the underground river so it could also have been a tower cap burning but I didn't think that happened. [[User:Pti|Pti]] 21:33, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Incidentally, that was with temperature off. [[User:Pti|Pti]] 21:35, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::That would actually be an interesting thing to check - my current fort has a short underground magma channel, hollow underneath, and having sand floors, but the layer underneath is all chalk so no tower-caps would be able to grow. I could possibly test it by adding some mud next to the channels, since I've observed nearby muddy floors to permit tower-cap growth above stone layers. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:00, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Regarding Boatmurdered ==<br />
<br />
I have this intense desire to flood the world in magma. (yes, I'm playing the 2D Dwarf Fortress. Sue me.) How did they get the magma onto the surface? Last I checked, pumps don't exist, sooo... --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 02:45, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:Channels and aqueducts... They'll transport any liquid anywhere. And bridges too!--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]]<br />
::But magma's on the "Z-level" below. How's it supposed to get on the actual level of the elephants? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:50, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::You're still thinking in 3D. Magma is "in" the tiles where the river is, and will be in the tiles where you dig a channel, and you want to get it in the tiles where the elephants are, by digging a channel from the magma river to the outside and "releasing" it from the channel using a floodgate. The miner who digs the part of the channel that connects it to the magma river itself might get killed, since they always stood ''in'' the channel square while digging it in the 2D version. Put a floodgate just beyond it before digging it out so you can shut off the flow, since you will make mistakes.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:36, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Yes, I realize I'm thinking in 3D. Exactly how does the magma get out of the channel and onto the ground? Because last I checked, fluids didn't do that naturally. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:44, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::::That's just the way the 2D version works. Channel next to liquid = liquid now in channel. Tile at end of channel not floodgate (or other liquid stopper) = liquid now on ground. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:47, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Read [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Channel#Game_mechanics Channel] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Irrigation#Controlled_flooding Irrigation] on the archive wiki. You have to play with channels and floodgates for a bit before it all makes sense, though. The 2D version tended to get real kludgy when it came to fluids. Try to get a farm going to understand the basics of the 2D channels, floodgates, and fluids.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:07, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== No little errors ==<br />
<br />
I just made a discovery. There is nothing like small error in the terms of magma engineering. After attempting to make my lava moat, I accidentally dug channel one tile longer, than it should be. At first, it went good. But then, magma flowed over my wall and flooded entire fortress. Remember - no little errors. [[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 12:19, 30 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Export the local map ==<br />
<br />
"...you can try exporting the local map of the world which can be much more quickly searched for the distinctive red ≈ symbol. " How does one do that? --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 02:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:Right after generating your world, there is an option to export the map. I think it maps to 'p' but I can't swear to it now. I don't know if there is a way to do it at a time other than right after generation. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:45, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
::Legends screen lets you export maps as well, but they don't have the special features enabled, even with all applicable options enabled. Probably on the todo list 'somewhere', but can't imagine it's even semi-important. So you'll have to rely on worldgen exports. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::I thought it was just the region map you can export, not the local map, and a red ≈ just means desert and/or red sand on that map. You can see named volcanoes on it though -- red ^s.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:16, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::It's mapped to "P". Capital. [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 21:01, 12 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Temperature setting ==<br />
<br />
While magma will not cause fires while the temperature is turned off in the init file, it seems the game remembers at least some of the fires it would have caused. I was playing with temperature off and tunneled into magma rather carelessly, knowing it wouldn't hurt me, later, when I turned the temperature on in that game, the dwarves that came into contact with the magma were immediately set on fire. This was about a year later in game. I checked back several times by quitting without saving, every time I turned the temperature on, those same dwarves caught fire, with the temperature off, there was no indication of fire what so ever.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 23:36, 23 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Oh wow, I can imagine tons of uses for that, especially when toady makes it so that you can go and raid the goblins... Kamikaze dwarves, anyone? Well, I guess it should be in the article, but it would be nice to do more testing first. I think that if a dwarf falls in water, he stops burning. So if you could find out if they, after being put out with temperature off, still lit up next time we could put it in. Do more research, I would but I have had trouble with DF lately, it has been mad slow.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 00:01, 24 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Well, temperatures are flows, and items remember how warm they are, so presumably the dwarves that burst into flames are still at a ridiculous temperature and haven't cooled down. That, or the coating of magma on their bodies is causing them to burn...--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 00:36, 24 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::: It has got to be the coating, as you say. Turning off the tempurature means that they should STOP remembering. The flows should not be calculated, and the items should have nothing to remember. Thats why turning it off speeds up the game, especially in extreme environs or around magma. There was, however, nothing listed that I could find, so this "magma coating" is invisible to the interface. It should also be noted that it was apparently the dwarves who caught fire first, and their burning flesh that apparently set their clothes on fire moments later.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 12:29, 24 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::Check specifically for magma splatters on the dwarfs in question. I wouldn't be surprised if they picked them up, similar to when creatures get doused in water. The liquid tends to stick all over them, and rarely goes away on it's own. Best bet to preserve them would be to construct a waterfall-shower, and hope it washes away the magma spatter, rather than creating obsidian ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:11, 25 January 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yer, looks like the dawrfs got their Pigtail socks a coating of magma. Then magma goes boom.--[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 08:08, 19 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Site finder==<br />
<br />
Will magma Pipes always show up on the local map? Because my site finder keeps throwing up sites with no visible magma on the local map. --[[User:ArneHD|ArneHD]] 17:09, 12 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:No, magma pipes don't always reach the surface, and therefore won't always show up on the embark map. You can find out it's actual location by taking a guess based off of what stone layers are shown where in the embark map, or you can go to your init.txt and change SHOW_EMBARK_M_PIPE to ALWAYS. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 17:29, 12 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Magma-swimming Baby ==<br />
<br />
For some reason, someone has dropped their baby into the magma. The strange thing is, it aint burning up. Its lying there, and apparently has done so for a long time. Its hungry and thirsty. --[[User:Myroc|Myroc]] 15:26, 21 February 2009 (EST)<br />
:I once had a mother get trapped behind a magma bulkhead with her baby. She died promptly. The baby just sorta sat in the magma flow for about a year before it died too. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:40, 21 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Spawn Distance For Creatures? ==<br />
<br />
How far from the magma pipe can fire snakes (and imps, if they spawn) appear? Also, are they limited to spawning near the magma pipe itself, or ANY magma (i.e., a magma tap leading across the map into your fortress)?<br />
:The pipe itself--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Hidden Magma Pipe ==<br />
So I just got the message 'You have discovered a magma pipe.' This made me very happy, because I had no idea that magma was on my map, and the area is completely devoid of trees, which means I won't have to worry about charcoal as much. Anywhos, after getting the message and looking around the level... I can't find it anywhere! I assumed that you get the message when your dwarf mines a tile next to the pipe or something, but I can't find it anywhere, not even on the local map. Magma forges are enabled, so that must mean that I did find one... But is there any way of finding the darn thing? I assumed it was from some of my exploratory mining, but after looking around that area and even digging further into the rock, I don't see anything. Is it possible that the magma pipe is off the level or something, so I get the message but can't see it? Arg, this is so annoying. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 00:34, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Try zooming in on any magma related creatures from the units menu. You could also zoom in on the newest (last) obsidian stone listed on the stocks menu I think. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 04:21, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Check for a [[Magma#Using_magma|Magma Cap]]. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:12, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I tried looking at the units list... Only a couple dead kobolds, a few camels, and my dwarves... So that's a no go. And there are 15 obsidian stones in my stocks, but the zoom function is grayed out... And my bookkeeper is at 100% efficiency. I also tried looking for a magma cap, but I couldn't find one. Aha! Success! I made an obsidian stockpile, and watched where my all-knowing dwarves went, and I found the source of the obsidian. I tried digging from that point, and I found it! It's a bit small, but I suppose the diameter doesn't matter much when it's a magma pipe. Thanks for your help, guys. Also, I know that talk pages aren't meant to be used as forums or anything, but is it against the rules and/or frowned upon to ask questions on the talk pages?<br />
<br />
::: It's fine, it might even be a good thing, since we can add other tidbit of information to a main article if needed. Feel free to ask question (as long as it is in the appropriate place. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 13:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Items Caught In Cooling Magma ==<br />
After one of my wrestlers got pulled into a magma vent, I noticed that his Steel equipment only sank a single Z level. This brings up the idea that, if I were to pour water over the surface and harden that Z level, I could presumably recover the equipment. But will items caught in hardening magma be destroyed? Or merely trapped in obsidian that you can mine out? --[[User:Scarecrow|Scarecrow]] 16:37, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hm, good question. Wouldn't it make sense that the item just gets trapped, and you just have to mine out the hardened rock to get the item back? That is, if it's resistant to magma and/or the temperature's off. Right? Why would cooling the magma destroy the object? Unless the game had it coded where like, a tile of stone being created removes all the items from the block. Which would suck. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 17:48, 9 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Items lost in rivers or moats can be recovered by mining the ice in winter. It is not unreasonable to assume that magma/obsidian behaves like water/ice in this respect. This begs testing, obviously. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 21:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Tested this by a) dropping (non-magma safe) rocks into a river and then pouring in Lava, they were recoverable. b) putting a couple of similar rocks as well as a nickel-silver bar and a constructed nickle-silver bridge into a room, letting enough magma in to cover the floor, and then adding water before the rocks had melted. All items were recoverable and the bridge was still intact after digging it out. --[[User:Mael|Mael]] 00:08, 15 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Nice! That means my Obsidian Tomb trap concept just got a lot better! --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 14:10, 20 August 2009<br />
<br />
== Flies spawning from magma? ==<br />
<br />
I don't know why, but I've observed flies (normal and acorn flies, mostly normal flies) spawning at the edge of magma where its melting rock. It's particularily noticeable when you have magma channels under your forging area since the confined space tends to concentrate them. Also, they will come out of any magma access holes you have dug. I'm using the Mayday graphics mod, so no idea if it's an artifact. My theory is that they represent vapors coming out of the magma as it melts the rock it encounters. I also added this fact to the flies page as well. --[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 14:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
This has happened to me as well, it dosn't have anything to do with the graphics mod because I don't use it, I thought it was part of the civi forge mod I have been using, my personal theory it that flies spawn from refuse and molten rocks are refuse, it might also be from the dirt that magma makes because once I found a dwarf going down to my obsidian farm to clean something, the magma had cleared because my watergate broke(I suspect that an elven plot or carp are the cause).The ground had marks on it and I saw my cleaner cleaning it up.The flies may be attracted to "dirty" tiles but i'm not sure.--[[User:Supercharazard|Supercharazard]] 17:30, 12 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Digging into volcano wall ==<br />
<br />
While the article says you need unbelievably fast to avoid getting incinierated while digging into the obsidian wall, this doesn't seem to be true. More important than speed is to make sure the digger has a designated mining section a few blocks away to immiedately start working on so he doesn't get that split second pause before switching labor. With this method I got a miner with merely "agile" out safely. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 04:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== digging away the obsidian ==<br />
<br />
There's something that I've not been able to find an answer for anywhere, which is if I dig away at the obsidian walls of the magma pipe (without touching the very inner layer of obsidian), will magma thats above the obisidan tile be able to leak down or is there a floor under the magma tile (above the obsidian) that'll prevent it from spilling out? --[[User:Kain|Kain]] 21:26, 26 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:If there was a natural tile one z-level down, then there is a floor there. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 00:06, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Producing Obsidian section ==<br />
<br />
The example directly on the page is difficult to understand--some diagrams would be helpful. Really, detailed designs like that should be on user pages anyway. It would be swell if the person who added this design put it on their own user page and linked to that from here. --[[User:King of the Internet|King of the Internet]] 01:29, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed, needs some simple diagram(s) (not over-specific, easily understood/modified to suit individual needs), but also needs to be 1) [[Character_table|standard notation]], and 2) on this page. If it's on a user page, other users really can't edit it if needed (for instance, to standardize the map symbols - the wall, specifically). --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:07, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Edit - upon reflection, there's every reason to give this topic its own page. [[Obsidian farming]]. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:53, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lava ==<br />
<br />
Lava is the same substance, but this name for the material is seen less often seen. <br />It seems to be the result of a 1/7 magma flow onto floor tiles, before it evaporates.{{verify}}<br />
<br />
Magma that occurs [[Tile attributes|above ground]] is referred to as '''Lava'''.<br />
Nope, sorry - I may not have the whole definition, but your limits are just wrong. I noticed "lava" underground while piercing an aquifer. It had been pumped down from the surface, but it was then underground, and had overflow from making obsidian on water onto a floor tile - and none of the other magma doing the work was "lava", it was all "magma". So was every bit of the magma vent that was exposed. So... I don't know where that leaves us, but for now neither may be (completely) right.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:55, 28 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*I've got an above-ground magma pipeline that briefly passes through an underground passage - it becomes Lava once it goes above ground, turns ''back'' into Magma once it enters the subterranean tunnel, then becomes lava again when it emerges. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:30, 28 September 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Magma&diff=5512740d Talk:Magma2009-10-15T15:11:40Z<p>Zchris13: /* Mountain Layers & magma? */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Steel?==<br />
Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the [[Magma smelter]] article, which state that using [[Fire-safe materials]] is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
:Magmaproof is not the same as fireproof. Buildings that work WITH magma need to be fireproof. Rocks and iron are fireproof. Wood is not. Buildings that are going IN the magma, such as floodgates, their mechanisms, and pumps need to be magmaproof materials such as steel and bauxite. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 01:51, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The "must have steel" thing is from the old 2d version. Now, it is only required to be fire safe, such as iron and steel, most other metals, and most types of rock.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:10, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Disabling temperature?==<br />
If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
: Yes, dwarves seem to be able to swim through magma unharmed when temperature is off(I've had them shoved in during a fight, not 100% sure), but they'll violently resist this, even without danger. Water will still steam, it seems to be hard coded. --[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 16:50, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Mountain Layers & magma?==<br />
Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_rocks#Naming this article] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock#Mineralogical_classification this site] list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?<br />
:It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.<br />
::So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:::A small patch of obsidian is a dead giveaway for a magma pipe.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:11, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==magma chamber not visible==<br />
On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
:You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--[[User:SL|SL]] 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this "cap", I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:::Turning on the "see magma pools and pipes" option in the init file would be a great help for trouble shooting on this topic.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:44, 23 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Magmapool/pipe section ==<br />
Zara, you recently added some info about all magma pipes having cliffs over them -- this is incorrect. I've played a very large number of magma pipe maps, and very often they are completely exposed to the air. I've also removed the line about them being "as small as two z-levels!", because it needs better phrasing. I may fix it later. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 22:39, 26 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:in the meantime I had figured that out, too. But what is the difference between a magma pipe and a volcano, then? <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Zara|Zara]]</small><br />
<br />
::As far as I know, the distinction comes down to whether it reaches the surface. If so, some would then call it a volcano rather than a magma pipe. I believe that magma pipes which reach the surface (or volcanoes, if you will) are the only ones which actually show up on the embark map, while underground magma pipes and magma pools do not (unless you use the Regional Prospector tool). --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 23:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::No, similar to Moonanibe,I've played on several maps where, on the embark screen, the magma pipe was only visible using regional prospector. However, as soon as I took a look at the place, I found the magma partly (or completely) exposed on the surface. [[User:Zara|Zara]] 01:59, 11 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::Magma pipes are not 'necessarily' part of a mountain, while volcanoes make a mountain around them during world gen. Comes down to a number game. Volcanoes have a magma number of 100, while pipes have a number between 99 and some lower value.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:48, 23 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Added new section ==<br />
I added a section regarding "Built objects vs. Magma". I think it's absolutely vital we establish what does and doesn't melt in magma, in a clean list. There are quite a few things that could be added to that list (Constructed floors for one) so please, do add to it. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 17:31, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:Have you tested the bridges? I conjecture that all buildings and constructions without mechanisms are perfectly fine with magma contact. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:: The bridges part was cut from another section of the article and moved in there. Since it was already here, I assumed it was accurate. I haven't actually checked myself. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 16:54, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:I will verify bridges one way or the other. I'm pretty sure they cant melt, though. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:03, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::they dont melt, as they arent actually within the magma. that was copied over from the 2d wiki and nobody removed it -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 22:29, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::: I noticed you removed the line about bridges. It seems silly not to mention them at all, so I've written up a line about them working no matter what the material and stuck it in. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 23:12, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::::yea they should definately be mentioned, wasnt thinking when i removed it completely(recovering from a bad cold and brain is still a bit foggy) -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 00:49, 20 February 2008 (EST)<br />
Tested. Non-magmaiproof bridges -over- magma are fine. Non-magma-proof submerged in magma will melt. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:39, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br />
: Interesting. I'll edit the article to say as much. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 15:30, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br />
This is what I've found: ANY Construction is safe from magma (even wooden ones. Walls, stairs, fortifications, etc). Any building is unaffected by magma if the magma doesn't occupy the same tile as the building. Example: a door is safe if it's closed, even if it's made of non-safe rock or wood. If you lock it open with a mechanism, or if it's jammed, then the magma interacts with the components, burning/melting them if they can't stand the heat. A pump made of wood or any other material is also safe, as long as the magma doesn't flow *over* it. Since the "out" side acts as a wall, if it's correctly isolated from the magma it won't get damaged and will pump the magma without any trouble. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 01:41, 21 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Anyone clear on Vertical Bars in magma? I am attempting to keep imps and such from moving through my magma feeding tunnel and was curious if anyone had any good solutions to this problem. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 16:23, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I just use a bauxite wall grate, it works fine for me. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:02, 15 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
:: Ah, thank you, I just wanted to be sure they didn't melt regardless --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 02:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br><br />
I made a few tests with magma and buildings/constructions and I can confirm some known results and I can provide a few new aspects. Constructions (b->C) are magma safe (walls, floors, stairs, others not tested). No matter what the material is.<br />
*<s>bridges build with bauxite *rocks* are not magma safe (bauxite mechanism or not)</s><br />
*bridges build with bauxite *blocks* are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)<br />
*bridges build with steel bars are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)<br />
Open test: bridge with blocks considered as not magma safe.<br />
<br>[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:14, 11 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
::I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The bridges build with bauxite rocks were previously connected with a lever. Unfortunately the mechanism is not removed from the bridge when you remove the lever. Well, at least it seems that the rules for magma safe materials are valid for bridges. With one exception: raised bridges can contain any mechanism, only when magma flows over the bridge it is destroyed.--[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 13:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Replenishing Magma ==<br />
<br />
Since magma replenishes now, I've rewritten that snippet from the article. If I've missed something(a kind of magma not regenerating, though this always worked for me on several maps), feel free to correct things. --[[User:Romantic Warrior|Romantic Warrior]] 15:47, 18 February 2008 (EST).<br />
<br />
<br />
I have a very good feeling that the replenishing magma is just "pressurized" magma. I haven't tested fully, but i have poured water over a magma pipe and re-mined it, and in that case the magma flow was upwards. --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 03:49, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
I'm playing a magma pipe right now, and after filling a reservoir to build my forges over, I noticed the main pipe section refilled itself a little bit. It's not back to what it used to be, but there is definitely some regeneration going on. Seems to be going at an excruciatingly slow pace though. About 7 years into the fort and the pipe is nowhere close to being completely refilled. --[[Special:Contributions/65.94.8.163|65.94.8.163]] 14:12, 11 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Temperature ==<br />
<br />
Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I'm not sure how the temperature calculations are done, but I CAN tell you that magma will melt nearby ice. Check out http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-153-meltingwateronglacier to see it in action. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 15:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)<br />
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::It should be a flow, just like the magma itself. One of the other visible results is warm stone. The same can probably be said for water and damp stone as well. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::It also makes sure water stays heated; a friend of mine keeps magma under a few of his natural pools to make sure they stay thawed during the cold winter months (all but the middle summer month!) --Gotthard 17:45, 12 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Flow?==<br />
<br />
I have a magma pipe (pit) in my current fortress... I breached the pipe from the lowest level because of the diagonal bug when I discovered it, and it filled some long exploratory shafts. Since then, the top magma layer is down to 5/7 and 6/7 running all over the surface. After a little while, it's easy to see that magma act curiously: instead of bouncing from wall to wall like real water physics, in my game the 5/7 (the flow) seems to all move in the same direction at the same time. The direction change often, and seem to change randomly. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
There is another way to stop a flow of magma that's moving through a tunnel. You can go one z-level higher, dig to a spot above the magma-filled tunnel, then build a channel above where the magma is flowing and assign it as a Pond Zone. So long as you have buckets and a viable Water Source zone, a dwarf will come along and drop water on the magma, instantly turning it into obsidian and blocking the tunnel. --[[User:Stromko]] January 6th, 2007<br />
: I've tried this - it rarely works. Usually you just destroy 1/7 of the magma per bucket, along with the water from the bucket, and nothing turns to obsidian. You need to hit it with larger quantities of water at once to get reliable results. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:35, 6 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Actually, you have to hit it from two levels up. Just one won't do anything.--[[User:Demosthenes|Demosthenes]] 17:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
I have added a section to the main page on magma flow, based on frequent confusion in the forums, and on some investigations I have been making into the behavior of magma when pumped (I'm not the first to discover this behavior, but I did go to a fair degree of effort to test how it behaves in differing circumstances) --[[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] 21:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Now THAT is how you make a diagram! Awesome. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:20, 8 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Criteria for Magma Buildings==<br />
<br />
Is there a special condition that must be met before Magma Smelters/Forges/Furnaces and so on will appear on the build menus? I have a magma pit and some channels over it so that I can access it for magma, but I cannot build any magma-using buildings. - [[User:Confused Rat|Confused Rat]]<br />
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:Magma furnaces and forges need a hole somewhere on the ground where they are built. This is to allow the furnace/forge to take the heat from the magma as they are used. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:43, 25 January 2008 (EST)<br />
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:What he means is that the magma furnaces don't even appear in the build menu. This is because you haven't discovered magma through natural means. The only way this can happen is if you used reveal to find the magma. You'll have to use the [[Utilities#Enable_Magma_Buildings|Enable Magma Buildings]] utility to make them appear. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:03, 25 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Reclaimed fortresses may be bugged. If you reclaimed you fortress you probably can't do anything with it without 3rd party programs (like one mentioned above). Magma in [[pit]]s isn't enough to allow magma buildings. You need to discover true magma pipe and get pop-up informing about this. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:I had a similar problem in a human settlement, so I do not know if the bug applies there, too... but there IS a chance I abandoned and reclaimed at one point, so it could just be that --[[User:Zatnik|Zatnik]] 05:02, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Infinity Generators? ==<br />
<br />
Because magma is currently a finite resource, would it be a good idea to add how to make an infinity generator as workarround untill Toady gives us some more of the stuff?<small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Highlord Asehujiko|Highlord Asehujiko]] ([[User talk:Highlord Asehujiko|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Highlord Asehujiko|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
:Not on the main article as it would easily be considered cheating. In here, or the [[cheating]] article itself would be fine, the latter probably more appropriate as it could be applied to water as well for those scorching maps. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:16, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Magma regenerates in most cases, which pretty much means it's infinite. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Lava vs. Magma ==<br />
<br />
I hadn't noticed it until just now, but both Lava and Magma occur in the game. I haven't seen this fact referenced in the wiki. Magma is a fluid which occurs in Magma Pipes, and in areas directly connected to Magma Pipes. Lava appears to occur in disconnected areas. I'm not sure what happens if you reconnect. If you use {{k|k}} to view a square, you'll see either Magma or Lava depths given. I'm not clear on what difference there is between the two fluids. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:There is none, just the name. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:30, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::both in df, and irl, molten rock in open air is called lava, while subterranean is called magma -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:40, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::: Ah, so magma which is ''Outside'' is lava. Cool. I guess my disjoint areas are all also outside :) I suppose we ought to mention this somewhere on the page? --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 19:19, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Magma vs puppy? ==<br />
<br />
I have encountered an interesting glitch. I have 2 puppies and a kitten in magma that aren't dying, and yes I have temperature setting on. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-570-magmavspuppy<br />
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For those interested in trying to recreate it, I believe it has to do with designating the animal to slaughter while trying to throw it into a pit. A few of my dwarves were having pathing errors to try and slaughter them when I noticed the 3 invulnerable pests. After saving and reloading, the critters were insta-gibbed.<br />
--[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 04:59, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Chasm Confusion ==<br />
<br />
"The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores."<br />
<br />
Magma, at least in my experience, has always been surrounded only by Obsidian, as a result you cannot get any kind of insight as to the surrounding minerals, this differs from a chasm where the veins coming up to a chasm are directly reflected in the walls.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 04:18, 26 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:volcanoes and magmapipes can form large "chasms" above them, though it depends on how rocky the map is<br />
:Confirmed, various minerals and gems were visible in the 'crater' area two levels above the magma in my magma pipe. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:05, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== gruesome accident in older 2d version ==<br />
<br />
beware wooden floodgates<br />
not only do they burn(as I planned)<br />
but i scattered magma all around the room<br />
it rolled around quickly in all directions, flooding the tunnels, burning miners, smelters, war dogs and puppies alike without remorse.<br />
it has thus far filled the entire message screen with " someone" or "something" has burned to death <br />
it appears to gain mass from creeping down hallways! oh god...<br />
60 deaths, at least 25 dwarves and 15 puppies22:08, 28 July 2008 (EDT)[[User:Eerr|Eerr]]<br />
<br />
== Magma cooling? ==<br />
<br />
Ive noticed at a 1/7 depth, the magma seems to cool and go away. v40d --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:28, 3 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: That is probably what the author meant by "Magma that is only 1 deep "evaporates" over time." [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 19:58, 3 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Mechanisms on Non-Floodgates ==<br />
<br />
I want to power my underground smelting operations with magma, so I'm digging a tunnel into the side of a magma pipe. I don't want magma creatures coming in that way, so I need a set of [[bars]] across it. However, once I set up the bars, I need to open them to get a miner past and cut the last bit of stone and open the tunnel to the magma. I was going to just attach the bars to a level, but the question of what to use for the [[mechanism]] is bugging me. I don't want to waste my precious imported [[Bauxite]] on the mechanism, and once it closes behind the miner it never need to open again so it's fine it it melts, but not if the melting mechanism will cause the bars to deconstruct! Anyone know what happens to things other than floodgates when their mechanisms get melted off?<br />
--17:11, 7 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: Or you could make your life much simpler with [[Fortification]]s. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:: How? [[Fortification]]s allow liquid to pass through and stop creatures, yes, but you can't open them ''at all''. How am I supposed to get my dwarf back after he digs the last square of the channel if there's a fortification blocking the way?--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 15:49, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:::I used a fortification to keep fire imps out of my magma channel; I dug a stairway totally unconnected to the rest of my fortress to a spot adjacent to the top layer of the magma pipe, then dug a tunnel from within the fortress to within one tile of the stairway. I fortified the tile that separated the two, then dug a channel (from outside) that let the magma flow against the "outside" face of the fortification. The magma flowed through the fortification and into the "inside" tunnel.<br />
<br />
:::For good measure, in case I want to drain the inside tunnel at some point, I put an s-turn in the inside tunnel and situated a nickel/bauxite floodgate around the corner, out of sight of the fortification.<br />
<br />
:::Viewed from above, basically it looks like this:<br />
<br />
~============<br />
~~=====..X...<br />
~~=====.=====<br />
~~=<#...=====<br />
~~===========<br />
~============<br />
<br />
~ - Magma pipe<br />
= - Unmined tile (wall)<br />
. - Mined tile (channel)<br />
< - Stairway<br />
# - Fortification<br />
X - Floodgate<br />
<br />
:::The last step here is to remove the tile between the magma and the stairway by digging a channel from one z-level up.<br />
:::--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::Why do you need a stairway? Couldn't you have just put the fortification on the tile where you have the stairway now? I'm also not sure why you need a turn as opposed to having the floodgate directly in line; i.e. {{qd|cols=7|~|`|╬|{{qd/ch{{!}}X{{!}}888|ccc}}|.|.|.}} <br />
::::[[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:55, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:::::I believe you can't create a fortification from above, though I could be wrong. It doesn't cost anything to dig one extra z-level down to get yourself a tile with an open face front and back which fortifies up nicely. Also, I put the kink in the tunnel just to be paranoid -- I don't want things shooting fireballs down it. I'm not sure if a fireball can destroy a floodgate. Again, it didn't cost me anything to make it a touch more elaborate.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
::::Well, if I dug in from above, I could just use a non-retracting set of bars. Fortifications allow liquid to flow, but they slow it down. But I'm not digging at the top level of the pipe. I suppose I could just use a sacrificial non-magma-safe floodgate, set up the bars behind it, and then open it and let it melt.<br />
::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:20, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Magma Ate My Wall ==<br />
While digging my channel to a magma pipe, I came across a vein of Lignite which ran perpendicular to my channel. I mined it out, hauled the lignite over to my fortress, and then built some walls over the side passages. It's now less than a year later, and one of those wall-units is missing. Unless there's some way a fire imp or other magma creature can destroy walls, the magma must have melted the wall. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 07:12, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Wasn't that wall a Lignite wall ? It may have burnt, then. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:46, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:Yes, it sounds like it was a liginite wall. Magma will ignite coke-bearing rock, this has been the case for a long time. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:56, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:: No, the wall was built from rock salt. All the lignite was hauled away, and as an economic stone, not a material choice I could have made by accident. The floor is still lignite though. Think that may have been a factor? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:58, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::That's possible, but I find it unlikely. Also, I misinterpreted what you meant by 'built a wall', didn't realize it was a construction. I thought it was a smoothed rock face. It's been a persisting question (at least in #df on synIRC) if magma will melt constructions not made of bauxite. You may have just answered that for us. Perhaps you could test by letting magma into a 5x5 room with one natural rock pillar in the middle, and a wall construction of the same type of stone? That'd answer the question once and for all, I think. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:11, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::I've had magma against some of my constructed walls for years and years without damage. A good thing too, I've got quarters on the other side! They're almost certainly basalt. I wouldn't rule out the vanishing wall being caused by a burning floor; lignite can burn for years before vanishing. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:14, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Interesting. It was probably the liginite floor, then, but that begs the question of how a burning floor could consume a wall; stone should be fire-safe. A really interesting situation, to be sure. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::Also -- as for 'not a material choice I could have made by accident', I've found my masons will happily convert expensive imported ores and flux into blocks if they decide your depot's closer than the nearest basalt. And once anything's blocked, it's useless but for constructions. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:39, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::: @Corona: That's for a mason's workshop, though. When you build walls, you choose the specific rocks to build from. Although, I have to say that I've never had a mason use a rock from the restricted list.<br />
::::: For clarity, here's an image capture. The east-west shaft was my original tunnel towards the magma pipe. Every mined-out tile north or south of that shaft was Lignite. However, the opening just below the cursor, where my missing wall is supposed to be, is listed as Rock Salt as well. This is because dwarves kept building that section of wall from the wrong side, and I had to deconstruct it and put it back up several times -- which kills our "burning lignite floor" theory. Hrm.....now that I think about it, I can't be sure that I did build that wall in the end. I can't remember if a dwarf ever built it from the correct side. I'll let you know if another wall section disappears.<br />
[[Image:romeofalling1.GIF]]<br />
<br />
--[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:54, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Disambiguation ==<br />
<br />
I see the term ''magma pipe'' and ''magma vent'' being used interchangeably. Do these terms mean the same thing? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:25, 8 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Basically, yes. Magma vents, however, are visible from the surface, whereas magma pipes are not. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:26, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Magma Vs. Sand ==<br />
<br />
In a failed experiment with wooden screw pumps with magma proof blocks, I have discovered something horrible and intriguing. Magma/lava can burn it's way through sand, so now I have an above ground magma cistern half flooding back into the magma pipe I filled it from, and half into my underground workshops through 2 z-levels of sand flooring. I have picture proof too, but I have no idea how to upload pictures from my laptop to a wiki. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:"Upload file", toolbox, left side of this page.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::Ah, thanks. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Do you mean it goes down z-levels, or does it just move across the sand? magma can normally move across anything except water, I think. --[[User:Destor|Destor]] 14:41, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:Vertically, through z-levels. It created a hole that wasn't there before through a sand floor, into my main hallway, and then through the floor there into my workshops and stockpiles. From there, it simply followed the path of least resistance down the stairs and into the living quarters (not shown). The magma seems to only tunnel through floor tiles that have no wall tile below them, which is understandable but I've never had this happen before. Though, admittedly I have never tried to create a lava cistern on top of sand before. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<gallery><br />
Image:DF-0.JPG|Above ground (sorry for large size despite jpeg compression)<br />
Image:DF-1.JPG|1 z-level down (main hallway)<br />
Image:DF-2.JPG|2 z-levels down (workshops and rock, bar, and wood stockpiles)<br />
</gallery><br />
:::Oh what [[Losing|FUN!]] --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]]<br />
::::A bit late, but are you sure you didn't somehow cause a [[cave-in]] and punch a hole through the floor? I've '''never''' observed magma destroying walls or floors on its own, even those made of sand. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:19, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Good timing because I just observed this myself and it definitely wasn't a cave in. Magma created an open space in a white sand floor and began flooding my fortress. Had breached the underground river so it could also have been a tower cap burning but I didn't think that happened. [[User:Pti|Pti]] 21:33, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Incidentally, that was with temperature off. [[User:Pti|Pti]] 21:35, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::That would actually be an interesting thing to check - my current fort has a short underground magma channel, hollow underneath, and having sand floors, but the layer underneath is all chalk so no tower-caps would be able to grow. I could possibly test it by adding some mud next to the channels, since I've observed nearby muddy floors to permit tower-cap growth above stone layers. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:00, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Regarding Boatmurdered ==<br />
<br />
I have this intense desire to flood the world in magma. (yes, I'm playing the 2D Dwarf Fortress. Sue me.) How did they get the magma onto the surface? Last I checked, pumps don't exist, sooo... --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 02:45, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:Channels and aqueducts... They'll transport any liquid anywhere. And bridges too!--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]]<br />
::But magma's on the "Z-level" below. How's it supposed to get on the actual level of the elephants? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:50, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::You're still thinking in 3D. Magma is "in" the tiles where the river is, and will be in the tiles where you dig a channel, and you want to get it in the tiles where the elephants are, by digging a channel from the magma river to the outside and "releasing" it from the channel using a floodgate. The miner who digs the part of the channel that connects it to the magma river itself might get killed, since they always stood ''in'' the channel square while digging it in the 2D version. Put a floodgate just beyond it before digging it out so you can shut off the flow, since you will make mistakes.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:36, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Yes, I realize I'm thinking in 3D. Exactly how does the magma get out of the channel and onto the ground? Because last I checked, fluids didn't do that naturally. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:44, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::::That's just the way the 2D version works. Channel next to liquid = liquid now in channel. Tile at end of channel not floodgate (or other liquid stopper) = liquid now on ground. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:47, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Read [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Channel#Game_mechanics Channel] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Irrigation#Controlled_flooding Irrigation] on the archive wiki. You have to play with channels and floodgates for a bit before it all makes sense, though. The 2D version tended to get real kludgy when it came to fluids. Try to get a farm going to understand the basics of the 2D channels, floodgates, and fluids.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:07, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== No little errors ==<br />
<br />
I just made a discovery. There is nothing like small error in the terms of magma engineering. After attempting to make my lava moat, I accidentally dug channel one tile longer, than it should be. At first, it went good. But then, magma flowed over my wall and flooded entire fortress. Remember - no little errors. [[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 12:19, 30 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Export the local map ==<br />
<br />
"...you can try exporting the local map of the world which can be much more quickly searched for the distinctive red ≈ symbol. " How does one do that? --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 02:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:Right after generating your world, there is an option to export the map. I think it maps to 'p' but I can't swear to it now. I don't know if there is a way to do it at a time other than right after generation. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:45, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
::Legends screen lets you export maps as well, but they don't have the special features enabled, even with all applicable options enabled. Probably on the todo list 'somewhere', but can't imagine it's even semi-important. So you'll have to rely on worldgen exports. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::I thought it was just the region map you can export, not the local map, and a red ≈ just means desert and/or red sand on that map. You can see named volcanoes on it though -- red ^s.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:16, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::It's mapped to "P". Capital. [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 21:01, 12 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Temperature setting ==<br />
<br />
While magma will not cause fires while the temperature is turned off in the init file, it seems the game remembers at least some of the fires it would have caused. I was playing with temperature off and tunneled into magma rather carelessly, knowing it wouldn't hurt me, later, when I turned the temperature on in that game, the dwarves that came into contact with the magma were immediately set on fire. This was about a year later in game. I checked back several times by quitting without saving, every time I turned the temperature on, those same dwarves caught fire, with the temperature off, there was no indication of fire what so ever.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 23:36, 23 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Oh wow, I can imagine tons of uses for that, especially when toady makes it so that you can go and raid the goblins... Kamikaze dwarves, anyone? Well, I guess it should be in the article, but it would be nice to do more testing first. I think that if a dwarf falls in water, he stops burning. So if you could find out if they, after being put out with temperature off, still lit up next time we could put it in. Do more research, I would but I have had trouble with DF lately, it has been mad slow.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 00:01, 24 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Well, temperatures are flows, and items remember how warm they are, so presumably the dwarves that burst into flames are still at a ridiculous temperature and haven't cooled down. That, or the coating of magma on their bodies is causing them to burn...--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 00:36, 24 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::: It has got to be the coating, as you say. Turning off the tempurature means that they should STOP remembering. The flows should not be calculated, and the items should have nothing to remember. Thats why turning it off speeds up the game, especially in extreme environs or around magma. There was, however, nothing listed that I could find, so this "magma coating" is invisible to the interface. It should also be noted that it was apparently the dwarves who caught fire first, and their burning flesh that apparently set their clothes on fire moments later.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 12:29, 24 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::Check specifically for magma splatters on the dwarfs in question. I wouldn't be surprised if they picked them up, similar to when creatures get doused in water. The liquid tends to stick all over them, and rarely goes away on it's own. Best bet to preserve them would be to construct a waterfall-shower, and hope it washes away the magma spatter, rather than creating obsidian ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:11, 25 January 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yer, looks like the dawrfs got their Pigtail socks a coating of magma. Then magma goes boom.--[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 08:08, 19 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Site finder==<br />
<br />
Will magma Pipes always show up on the local map? Because my site finder keeps throwing up sites with no visible magma on the local map. --[[User:ArneHD|ArneHD]] 17:09, 12 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:No, magma pipes don't always reach the surface, and therefore won't always show up on the embark map. You can find out it's actual location by taking a guess based off of what stone layers are shown where in the embark map, or you can go to your init.txt and change SHOW_EMBARK_M_PIPE to ALWAYS. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 17:29, 12 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Magma-swimming Baby ==<br />
<br />
For some reason, someone has dropped their baby into the magma. The strange thing is, it aint burning up. Its lying there, and apparently has done so for a long time. Its hungry and thirsty. --[[User:Myroc|Myroc]] 15:26, 21 February 2009 (EST)<br />
:I once had a mother get trapped behind a magma bulkhead with her baby. She died promptly. The baby just sorta sat in the magma flow for about a year before it died too. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:40, 21 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Spawn Distance For Creatures? ==<br />
<br />
How far from the magma pipe can fire snakes (and imps, if they spawn) appear? Also, are they limited to spawning near the magma pipe itself, or ANY magma (i.e., a magma tap leading across the map into your fortress)?<br />
:The pipe itself--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Hidden Magma Pipe ==<br />
So I just got the message 'You have discovered a magma pipe.' This made me very happy, because I had no idea that magma was on my map, and the area is completely devoid of trees, which means I won't have to worry about charcoal as much. Anywhos, after getting the message and looking around the level... I can't find it anywhere! I assumed that you get the message when your dwarf mines a tile next to the pipe or something, but I can't find it anywhere, not even on the local map. Magma forges are enabled, so that must mean that I did find one... But is there any way of finding the darn thing? I assumed it was from some of my exploratory mining, but after looking around that area and even digging further into the rock, I don't see anything. Is it possible that the magma pipe is off the level or something, so I get the message but can't see it? Arg, this is so annoying. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 00:34, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Try zooming in on any magma related creatures from the units menu. You could also zoom in on the newest (last) obsidian stone listed on the stocks menu I think. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 04:21, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Check for a [[Magma#Using_magma|Magma Cap]]. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:12, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::I tried looking at the units list... Only a couple dead kobolds, a few camels, and my dwarves... So that's a no go. And there are 15 obsidian stones in my stocks, but the zoom function is grayed out... And my bookkeeper is at 100% efficiency. I also tried looking for a magma cap, but I couldn't find one. Aha! Success! I made an obsidian stockpile, and watched where my all-knowing dwarves went, and I found the source of the obsidian. I tried digging from that point, and I found it! It's a bit small, but I suppose the diameter doesn't matter much when it's a magma pipe. Thanks for your help, guys. Also, I know that talk pages aren't meant to be used as forums or anything, but is it against the rules and/or frowned upon to ask questions on the talk pages?<br />
<br />
::: It's fine, it might even be a good thing, since we can add other tidbit of information to a main article if needed. Feel free to ask question (as long as it is in the appropriate place. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 13:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Items Caught In Cooling Magma ==<br />
After one of my wrestlers got pulled into a magma vent, I noticed that his Steel equipment only sank a single Z level. This brings up the idea that, if I were to pour water over the surface and harden that Z level, I could presumably recover the equipment. But will items caught in hardening magma be destroyed? Or merely trapped in obsidian that you can mine out? --[[User:Scarecrow|Scarecrow]] 16:37, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hm, good question. Wouldn't it make sense that the item just gets trapped, and you just have to mine out the hardened rock to get the item back? That is, if it's resistant to magma and/or the temperature's off. Right? Why would cooling the magma destroy the object? Unless the game had it coded where like, a tile of stone being created removes all the items from the block. Which would suck. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 17:48, 9 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Items lost in rivers or moats can be recovered by mining the ice in winter. It is not unreasonable to assume that magma/obsidian behaves like water/ice in this respect. This begs testing, obviously. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 21:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Tested this by a) dropping (non-magma safe) rocks into a river and then pouring in Lava, they were recoverable. b) putting a couple of similar rocks as well as a nickel-silver bar and a constructed nickle-silver bridge into a room, letting enough magma in to cover the floor, and then adding water before the rocks had melted. All items were recoverable and the bridge was still intact after digging it out. --[[User:Mael|Mael]] 00:08, 15 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Nice! That means my Obsidian Tomb trap concept just got a lot better! --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 14:10, 20 August 2009<br />
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== Flies spawning from magma? ==<br />
<br />
I don't know why, but I've observed flies (normal and acorn flies, mostly normal flies) spawning at the edge of magma where its melting rock. It's particularily noticeable when you have magma channels under your forging area since the confined space tends to concentrate them. Also, they will come out of any magma access holes you have dug. I'm using the Mayday graphics mod, so no idea if it's an artifact. My theory is that they represent vapors coming out of the magma as it melts the rock it encounters. I also added this fact to the flies page as well. --[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 14:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
This has happened to me as well, it dosn't have anything to do with the graphics mod because I don't use it, I thought it was part of the civi forge mod I have been using, my personal theory it that flies spawn from refuse and molten rocks are refuse, it might also be from the dirt that magma makes because once I found a dwarf going down to my obsidian farm to clean something, the magma had cleared because my watergate broke(I suspect that an elven plot or carp are the cause).The ground had marks on it and I saw my cleaner cleaning it up.The flies may be attracted to "dirty" tiles but i'm not sure.--[[User:Supercharazard|Supercharazard]] 17:30, 12 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Digging into volcano wall ==<br />
<br />
While the article says you need unbelievably fast to avoid getting incinierated while digging into the obsidian wall, this doesn't seem to be true. More important than speed is to make sure the digger has a designated mining section a few blocks away to immiedately start working on so he doesn't get that split second pause before switching labor. With this method I got a miner with merely "agile" out safely. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 04:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== digging away the obsidian ==<br />
<br />
There's something that I've not been able to find an answer for anywhere, which is if I dig away at the obsidian walls of the magma pipe (without touching the very inner layer of obsidian), will magma thats above the obisidan tile be able to leak down or is there a floor under the magma tile (above the obsidian) that'll prevent it from spilling out? --[[User:Kain|Kain]] 21:26, 26 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:If there was a natural tile one z-level down, then there is a floor there. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 00:06, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Producing Obsidian section ==<br />
<br />
The example directly on the page is difficult to understand--some diagrams would be helpful. Really, detailed designs like that should be on user pages anyway. It would be swell if the person who added this design put it on their own user page and linked to that from here. --[[User:King of the Internet|King of the Internet]] 01:29, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed, needs some simple diagram(s) (not over-specific, easily understood/modified to suit individual needs), but also needs to be 1) [[Character_table|standard notation]], and 2) on this page. If it's on a user page, other users really can't edit it if needed (for instance, to standardize the map symbols - the wall, specifically). --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:07, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Edit - upon reflection, there's every reason to give this topic its own page. [[Obsidian farming]]. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:53, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Lava ==<br />
<br />
Lava is the same substance, but this name for the material is seen less often seen. <br />It seems to be the result of a 1/7 magma flow onto floor tiles, before it evaporates.{{verify}}<br />
<br />
Magma that occurs [[Tile attributes|above ground]] is referred to as '''Lava'''.<br />
Nope, sorry - I may not have the whole definition, but your limits are just wrong. I noticed "lava" underground while piercing an aquifer. It had been pumped down from the surface, but it was then underground, and had overflow from making obsidian on water onto a floor tile - and none of the other magma doing the work was "lava", it was all "magma". So was every bit of the magma vent that was exposed. So... I don't know where that leaves us, but for now neither may be (completely) right.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:55, 28 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*I've got an above-ground magma pipeline that briefly passes through an underground passage - it becomes Lava once it goes above ground, turns ''back'' into Magma once it enters the subterranean tunnel, then becomes lava again when it emerges. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:30, 28 September 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Magma&diff=5512640d Talk:Magma2009-10-15T15:10:17Z<p>Zchris13: /* Steel? */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Steel?==<br />
Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the [[Magma smelter]] article, which state that using [[Fire-safe materials]] is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
:Magmaproof is not the same as fireproof. Buildings that work WITH magma need to be fireproof. Rocks and iron are fireproof. Wood is not. Buildings that are going IN the magma, such as floodgates, their mechanisms, and pumps need to be magmaproof materials such as steel and bauxite. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 01:51, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The "must have steel" thing is from the old 2d version. Now, it is only required to be fire safe, such as iron and steel, most other metals, and most types of rock.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:10, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Disabling temperature?==<br />
If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br />
: Yes, dwarves seem to be able to swim through magma unharmed when temperature is off(I've had them shoved in during a fight, not 100% sure), but they'll violently resist this, even without danger. Water will still steam, it seems to be hard coded. --[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 16:50, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Mountain Layers & magma?==<br />
Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_rocks#Naming this article] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock#Mineralogical_classification this site] list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?<br />
:It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.<br />
::So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==magma chamber not visible==<br />
On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
:You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--[[User:SL|SL]] 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this "cap", I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:::Turning on the "see magma pools and pipes" option in the init file would be a great help for trouble shooting on this topic.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:44, 23 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Magmapool/pipe section ==<br />
Zara, you recently added some info about all magma pipes having cliffs over them -- this is incorrect. I've played a very large number of magma pipe maps, and very often they are completely exposed to the air. I've also removed the line about them being "as small as two z-levels!", because it needs better phrasing. I may fix it later. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 22:39, 26 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:in the meantime I had figured that out, too. But what is the difference between a magma pipe and a volcano, then? <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Zara|Zara]]</small><br />
<br />
::As far as I know, the distinction comes down to whether it reaches the surface. If so, some would then call it a volcano rather than a magma pipe. I believe that magma pipes which reach the surface (or volcanoes, if you will) are the only ones which actually show up on the embark map, while underground magma pipes and magma pools do not (unless you use the Regional Prospector tool). --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 23:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:::No, similar to Moonanibe,I've played on several maps where, on the embark screen, the magma pipe was only visible using regional prospector. However, as soon as I took a look at the place, I found the magma partly (or completely) exposed on the surface. [[User:Zara|Zara]] 01:59, 11 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::Magma pipes are not 'necessarily' part of a mountain, while volcanoes make a mountain around them during world gen. Comes down to a number game. Volcanoes have a magma number of 100, while pipes have a number between 99 and some lower value.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:48, 23 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Added new section ==<br />
I added a section regarding "Built objects vs. Magma". I think it's absolutely vital we establish what does and doesn't melt in magma, in a clean list. There are quite a few things that could be added to that list (Constructed floors for one) so please, do add to it. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 17:31, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:Have you tested the bridges? I conjecture that all buildings and constructions without mechanisms are perfectly fine with magma contact. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:: The bridges part was cut from another section of the article and moved in there. Since it was already here, I assumed it was accurate. I haven't actually checked myself. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 16:54, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:I will verify bridges one way or the other. I'm pretty sure they cant melt, though. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:03, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::they dont melt, as they arent actually within the magma. that was copied over from the 2d wiki and nobody removed it -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 22:29, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::: I noticed you removed the line about bridges. It seems silly not to mention them at all, so I've written up a line about them working no matter what the material and stuck it in. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 23:12, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
::::yea they should definately be mentioned, wasnt thinking when i removed it completely(recovering from a bad cold and brain is still a bit foggy) -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 00:49, 20 February 2008 (EST)<br />
Tested. Non-magmaiproof bridges -over- magma are fine. Non-magma-proof submerged in magma will melt. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:39, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br />
: Interesting. I'll edit the article to say as much. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 15:30, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br />
This is what I've found: ANY Construction is safe from magma (even wooden ones. Walls, stairs, fortifications, etc). Any building is unaffected by magma if the magma doesn't occupy the same tile as the building. Example: a door is safe if it's closed, even if it's made of non-safe rock or wood. If you lock it open with a mechanism, or if it's jammed, then the magma interacts with the components, burning/melting them if they can't stand the heat. A pump made of wood or any other material is also safe, as long as the magma doesn't flow *over* it. Since the "out" side acts as a wall, if it's correctly isolated from the magma it won't get damaged and will pump the magma without any trouble. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 01:41, 21 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Anyone clear on Vertical Bars in magma? I am attempting to keep imps and such from moving through my magma feeding tunnel and was curious if anyone had any good solutions to this problem. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 16:23, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:I just use a bauxite wall grate, it works fine for me. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:02, 15 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
:: Ah, thank you, I just wanted to be sure they didn't melt regardless --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 02:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br><br />
I made a few tests with magma and buildings/constructions and I can confirm some known results and I can provide a few new aspects. Constructions (b->C) are magma safe (walls, floors, stairs, others not tested). No matter what the material is.<br />
*<s>bridges build with bauxite *rocks* are not magma safe (bauxite mechanism or not)</s><br />
*bridges build with bauxite *blocks* are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)<br />
*bridges build with steel bars are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)<br />
Open test: bridge with blocks considered as not magma safe.<br />
<br>[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:14, 11 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
::I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The bridges build with bauxite rocks were previously connected with a lever. Unfortunately the mechanism is not removed from the bridge when you remove the lever. Well, at least it seems that the rules for magma safe materials are valid for bridges. With one exception: raised bridges can contain any mechanism, only when magma flows over the bridge it is destroyed.--[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 13:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Replenishing Magma ==<br />
<br />
Since magma replenishes now, I've rewritten that snippet from the article. If I've missed something(a kind of magma not regenerating, though this always worked for me on several maps), feel free to correct things. --[[User:Romantic Warrior|Romantic Warrior]] 15:47, 18 February 2008 (EST).<br />
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I have a very good feeling that the replenishing magma is just "pressurized" magma. I haven't tested fully, but i have poured water over a magma pipe and re-mined it, and in that case the magma flow was upwards. --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 03:49, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
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I'm playing a magma pipe right now, and after filling a reservoir to build my forges over, I noticed the main pipe section refilled itself a little bit. It's not back to what it used to be, but there is definitely some regeneration going on. Seems to be going at an excruciatingly slow pace though. About 7 years into the fort and the pipe is nowhere close to being completely refilled. --[[Special:Contributions/65.94.8.163|65.94.8.163]] 14:12, 11 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Temperature ==<br />
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Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:I'm not sure how the temperature calculations are done, but I CAN tell you that magma will melt nearby ice. Check out http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-153-meltingwateronglacier to see it in action. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 15:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)<br />
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::It should be a flow, just like the magma itself. One of the other visible results is warm stone. The same can probably be said for water and damp stone as well. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)<br />
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::It also makes sure water stays heated; a friend of mine keeps magma under a few of his natural pools to make sure they stay thawed during the cold winter months (all but the middle summer month!) --Gotthard 17:45, 12 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Flow?==<br />
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I have a magma pipe (pit) in my current fortress... I breached the pipe from the lowest level because of the diagonal bug when I discovered it, and it filled some long exploratory shafts. Since then, the top magma layer is down to 5/7 and 6/7 running all over the surface. After a little while, it's easy to see that magma act curiously: instead of bouncing from wall to wall like real water physics, in my game the 5/7 (the flow) seems to all move in the same direction at the same time. The direction change often, and seem to change randomly. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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There is another way to stop a flow of magma that's moving through a tunnel. You can go one z-level higher, dig to a spot above the magma-filled tunnel, then build a channel above where the magma is flowing and assign it as a Pond Zone. So long as you have buckets and a viable Water Source zone, a dwarf will come along and drop water on the magma, instantly turning it into obsidian and blocking the tunnel. --[[User:Stromko]] January 6th, 2007<br />
: I've tried this - it rarely works. Usually you just destroy 1/7 of the magma per bucket, along with the water from the bucket, and nothing turns to obsidian. You need to hit it with larger quantities of water at once to get reliable results. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:35, 6 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Actually, you have to hit it from two levels up. Just one won't do anything.--[[User:Demosthenes|Demosthenes]] 17:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br />
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I have added a section to the main page on magma flow, based on frequent confusion in the forums, and on some investigations I have been making into the behavior of magma when pumped (I'm not the first to discover this behavior, but I did go to a fair degree of effort to test how it behaves in differing circumstances) --[[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] 21:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Now THAT is how you make a diagram! Awesome. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:20, 8 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
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==Criteria for Magma Buildings==<br />
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Is there a special condition that must be met before Magma Smelters/Forges/Furnaces and so on will appear on the build menus? I have a magma pit and some channels over it so that I can access it for magma, but I cannot build any magma-using buildings. - [[User:Confused Rat|Confused Rat]]<br />
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:Magma furnaces and forges need a hole somewhere on the ground where they are built. This is to allow the furnace/forge to take the heat from the magma as they are used. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:43, 25 January 2008 (EST)<br />
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:What he means is that the magma furnaces don't even appear in the build menu. This is because you haven't discovered magma through natural means. The only way this can happen is if you used reveal to find the magma. You'll have to use the [[Utilities#Enable_Magma_Buildings|Enable Magma Buildings]] utility to make them appear. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:03, 25 January 2008 (EST)<br />
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:Reclaimed fortresses may be bugged. If you reclaimed you fortress you probably can't do anything with it without 3rd party programs (like one mentioned above). Magma in [[pit]]s isn't enough to allow magma buildings. You need to discover true magma pipe and get pop-up informing about this. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:I had a similar problem in a human settlement, so I do not know if the bug applies there, too... but there IS a chance I abandoned and reclaimed at one point, so it could just be that --[[User:Zatnik|Zatnik]] 05:02, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br />
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== Infinity Generators? ==<br />
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Because magma is currently a finite resource, would it be a good idea to add how to make an infinity generator as workarround untill Toady gives us some more of the stuff?<small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Highlord Asehujiko|Highlord Asehujiko]] ([[User talk:Highlord Asehujiko|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Highlord Asehujiko|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small><br />
:Not on the main article as it would easily be considered cheating. In here, or the [[cheating]] article itself would be fine, the latter probably more appropriate as it could be applied to water as well for those scorching maps. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:16, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br />
::Magma regenerates in most cases, which pretty much means it's infinite. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Lava vs. Magma ==<br />
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I hadn't noticed it until just now, but both Lava and Magma occur in the game. I haven't seen this fact referenced in the wiki. Magma is a fluid which occurs in Magma Pipes, and in areas directly connected to Magma Pipes. Lava appears to occur in disconnected areas. I'm not sure what happens if you reconnect. If you use {{k|k}} to view a square, you'll see either Magma or Lava depths given. I'm not clear on what difference there is between the two fluids. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:There is none, just the name. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:30, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::both in df, and irl, molten rock in open air is called lava, while subterranean is called magma -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:40, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::: Ah, so magma which is ''Outside'' is lava. Cool. I guess my disjoint areas are all also outside :) I suppose we ought to mention this somewhere on the page? --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 19:19, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Magma vs puppy? ==<br />
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I have encountered an interesting glitch. I have 2 puppies and a kitten in magma that aren't dying, and yes I have temperature setting on. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-570-magmavspuppy<br />
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For those interested in trying to recreate it, I believe it has to do with designating the animal to slaughter while trying to throw it into a pit. A few of my dwarves were having pathing errors to try and slaughter them when I noticed the 3 invulnerable pests. After saving and reloading, the critters were insta-gibbed.<br />
--[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 04:59, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Chasm Confusion ==<br />
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"The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores."<br />
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Magma, at least in my experience, has always been surrounded only by Obsidian, as a result you cannot get any kind of insight as to the surrounding minerals, this differs from a chasm where the veins coming up to a chasm are directly reflected in the walls.<br />
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--[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 04:18, 26 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:volcanoes and magmapipes can form large "chasms" above them, though it depends on how rocky the map is<br />
:Confirmed, various minerals and gems were visible in the 'crater' area two levels above the magma in my magma pipe. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:05, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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== gruesome accident in older 2d version ==<br />
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beware wooden floodgates<br />
not only do they burn(as I planned)<br />
but i scattered magma all around the room<br />
it rolled around quickly in all directions, flooding the tunnels, burning miners, smelters, war dogs and puppies alike without remorse.<br />
it has thus far filled the entire message screen with " someone" or "something" has burned to death <br />
it appears to gain mass from creeping down hallways! oh god...<br />
60 deaths, at least 25 dwarves and 15 puppies22:08, 28 July 2008 (EDT)[[User:Eerr|Eerr]]<br />
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== Magma cooling? ==<br />
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Ive noticed at a 1/7 depth, the magma seems to cool and go away. v40d --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:28, 3 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
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: That is probably what the author meant by "Magma that is only 1 deep "evaporates" over time." [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 19:58, 3 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Mechanisms on Non-Floodgates ==<br />
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I want to power my underground smelting operations with magma, so I'm digging a tunnel into the side of a magma pipe. I don't want magma creatures coming in that way, so I need a set of [[bars]] across it. However, once I set up the bars, I need to open them to get a miner past and cut the last bit of stone and open the tunnel to the magma. I was going to just attach the bars to a level, but the question of what to use for the [[mechanism]] is bugging me. I don't want to waste my precious imported [[Bauxite]] on the mechanism, and once it closes behind the miner it never need to open again so it's fine it it melts, but not if the melting mechanism will cause the bars to deconstruct! Anyone know what happens to things other than floodgates when their mechanisms get melted off?<br />
--17:11, 7 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
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: Or you could make your life much simpler with [[Fortification]]s. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:: How? [[Fortification]]s allow liquid to pass through and stop creatures, yes, but you can't open them ''at all''. How am I supposed to get my dwarf back after he digs the last square of the channel if there's a fortification blocking the way?--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 15:49, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:::I used a fortification to keep fire imps out of my magma channel; I dug a stairway totally unconnected to the rest of my fortress to a spot adjacent to the top layer of the magma pipe, then dug a tunnel from within the fortress to within one tile of the stairway. I fortified the tile that separated the two, then dug a channel (from outside) that let the magma flow against the "outside" face of the fortification. The magma flowed through the fortification and into the "inside" tunnel.<br />
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:::For good measure, in case I want to drain the inside tunnel at some point, I put an s-turn in the inside tunnel and situated a nickel/bauxite floodgate around the corner, out of sight of the fortification.<br />
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:::Viewed from above, basically it looks like this:<br />
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~============<br />
~~=====..X...<br />
~~=====.=====<br />
~~=<#...=====<br />
~~===========<br />
~============<br />
<br />
~ - Magma pipe<br />
= - Unmined tile (wall)<br />
. - Mined tile (channel)<br />
< - Stairway<br />
# - Fortification<br />
X - Floodgate<br />
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:::The last step here is to remove the tile between the magma and the stairway by digging a channel from one z-level up.<br />
:::--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
::::Why do you need a stairway? Couldn't you have just put the fortification on the tile where you have the stairway now? I'm also not sure why you need a turn as opposed to having the floodgate directly in line; i.e. {{qd|cols=7|~|`|╬|{{qd/ch{{!}}X{{!}}888|ccc}}|.|.|.}} <br />
::::[[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:55, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:::::I believe you can't create a fortification from above, though I could be wrong. It doesn't cost anything to dig one extra z-level down to get yourself a tile with an open face front and back which fortifies up nicely. Also, I put the kink in the tunnel just to be paranoid -- I don't want things shooting fireballs down it. I'm not sure if a fireball can destroy a floodgate. Again, it didn't cost me anything to make it a touch more elaborate.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
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::::Well, if I dug in from above, I could just use a non-retracting set of bars. Fortifications allow liquid to flow, but they slow it down. But I'm not digging at the top level of the pipe. I suppose I could just use a sacrificial non-magma-safe floodgate, set up the bars behind it, and then open it and let it melt.<br />
::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:20, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Magma Ate My Wall ==<br />
While digging my channel to a magma pipe, I came across a vein of Lignite which ran perpendicular to my channel. I mined it out, hauled the lignite over to my fortress, and then built some walls over the side passages. It's now less than a year later, and one of those wall-units is missing. Unless there's some way a fire imp or other magma creature can destroy walls, the magma must have melted the wall. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 07:12, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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:Wasn't that wall a Lignite wall ? It may have burnt, then. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:46, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:Yes, it sounds like it was a liginite wall. Magma will ignite coke-bearing rock, this has been the case for a long time. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:56, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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:: No, the wall was built from rock salt. All the lignite was hauled away, and as an economic stone, not a material choice I could have made by accident. The floor is still lignite though. Think that may have been a factor? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:58, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::That's possible, but I find it unlikely. Also, I misinterpreted what you meant by 'built a wall', didn't realize it was a construction. I thought it was a smoothed rock face. It's been a persisting question (at least in #df on synIRC) if magma will melt constructions not made of bauxite. You may have just answered that for us. Perhaps you could test by letting magma into a 5x5 room with one natural rock pillar in the middle, and a wall construction of the same type of stone? That'd answer the question once and for all, I think. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:11, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::I've had magma against some of my constructed walls for years and years without damage. A good thing too, I've got quarters on the other side! They're almost certainly basalt. I wouldn't rule out the vanishing wall being caused by a burning floor; lignite can burn for years before vanishing. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:14, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Interesting. It was probably the liginite floor, then, but that begs the question of how a burning floor could consume a wall; stone should be fire-safe. A really interesting situation, to be sure. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::Also -- as for 'not a material choice I could have made by accident', I've found my masons will happily convert expensive imported ores and flux into blocks if they decide your depot's closer than the nearest basalt. And once anything's blocked, it's useless but for constructions. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:39, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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::::: @Corona: That's for a mason's workshop, though. When you build walls, you choose the specific rocks to build from. Although, I have to say that I've never had a mason use a rock from the restricted list.<br />
::::: For clarity, here's an image capture. The east-west shaft was my original tunnel towards the magma pipe. Every mined-out tile north or south of that shaft was Lignite. However, the opening just below the cursor, where my missing wall is supposed to be, is listed as Rock Salt as well. This is because dwarves kept building that section of wall from the wrong side, and I had to deconstruct it and put it back up several times -- which kills our "burning lignite floor" theory. Hrm.....now that I think about it, I can't be sure that I did build that wall in the end. I can't remember if a dwarf ever built it from the correct side. I'll let you know if another wall section disappears.<br />
[[Image:romeofalling1.GIF]]<br />
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--[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:54, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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== Disambiguation ==<br />
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I see the term ''magma pipe'' and ''magma vent'' being used interchangeably. Do these terms mean the same thing? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:25, 8 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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:Basically, yes. Magma vents, however, are visible from the surface, whereas magma pipes are not. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:26, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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== Magma Vs. Sand ==<br />
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In a failed experiment with wooden screw pumps with magma proof blocks, I have discovered something horrible and intriguing. Magma/lava can burn it's way through sand, so now I have an above ground magma cistern half flooding back into the magma pipe I filled it from, and half into my underground workshops through 2 z-levels of sand flooring. I have picture proof too, but I have no idea how to upload pictures from my laptop to a wiki. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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:"Upload file", toolbox, left side of this page.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::Ah, thanks. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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Do you mean it goes down z-levels, or does it just move across the sand? magma can normally move across anything except water, I think. --[[User:Destor|Destor]] 14:41, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:Vertically, through z-levels. It created a hole that wasn't there before through a sand floor, into my main hallway, and then through the floor there into my workshops and stockpiles. From there, it simply followed the path of least resistance down the stairs and into the living quarters (not shown). The magma seems to only tunnel through floor tiles that have no wall tile below them, which is understandable but I've never had this happen before. Though, admittedly I have never tried to create a lava cistern on top of sand before. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<gallery><br />
Image:DF-0.JPG|Above ground (sorry for large size despite jpeg compression)<br />
Image:DF-1.JPG|1 z-level down (main hallway)<br />
Image:DF-2.JPG|2 z-levels down (workshops and rock, bar, and wood stockpiles)<br />
</gallery><br />
:::Oh what [[Losing|FUN!]] --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]]<br />
::::A bit late, but are you sure you didn't somehow cause a [[cave-in]] and punch a hole through the floor? I've '''never''' observed magma destroying walls or floors on its own, even those made of sand. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:19, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Good timing because I just observed this myself and it definitely wasn't a cave in. Magma created an open space in a white sand floor and began flooding my fortress. Had breached the underground river so it could also have been a tower cap burning but I didn't think that happened. [[User:Pti|Pti]] 21:33, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Incidentally, that was with temperature off. [[User:Pti|Pti]] 21:35, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::That would actually be an interesting thing to check - my current fort has a short underground magma channel, hollow underneath, and having sand floors, but the layer underneath is all chalk so no tower-caps would be able to grow. I could possibly test it by adding some mud next to the channels, since I've observed nearby muddy floors to permit tower-cap growth above stone layers. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:00, 8 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Regarding Boatmurdered ==<br />
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I have this intense desire to flood the world in magma. (yes, I'm playing the 2D Dwarf Fortress. Sue me.) How did they get the magma onto the surface? Last I checked, pumps don't exist, sooo... --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 02:45, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:Channels and aqueducts... They'll transport any liquid anywhere. And bridges too!--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]]<br />
::But magma's on the "Z-level" below. How's it supposed to get on the actual level of the elephants? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:50, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::You're still thinking in 3D. Magma is "in" the tiles where the river is, and will be in the tiles where you dig a channel, and you want to get it in the tiles where the elephants are, by digging a channel from the magma river to the outside and "releasing" it from the channel using a floodgate. The miner who digs the part of the channel that connects it to the magma river itself might get killed, since they always stood ''in'' the channel square while digging it in the 2D version. Put a floodgate just beyond it before digging it out so you can shut off the flow, since you will make mistakes.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:36, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Yes, I realize I'm thinking in 3D. Exactly how does the magma get out of the channel and onto the ground? Because last I checked, fluids didn't do that naturally. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:44, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
:::::That's just the way the 2D version works. Channel next to liquid = liquid now in channel. Tile at end of channel not floodgate (or other liquid stopper) = liquid now on ground. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:47, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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:::::Read [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Channel#Game_mechanics Channel] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Irrigation#Controlled_flooding Irrigation] on the archive wiki. You have to play with channels and floodgates for a bit before it all makes sense, though. The 2D version tended to get real kludgy when it came to fluids. Try to get a farm going to understand the basics of the 2D channels, floodgates, and fluids.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:07, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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== No little errors ==<br />
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I just made a discovery. There is nothing like small error in the terms of magma engineering. After attempting to make my lava moat, I accidentally dug channel one tile longer, than it should be. At first, it went good. But then, magma flowed over my wall and flooded entire fortress. Remember - no little errors. [[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 12:19, 30 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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== Export the local map ==<br />
<br />
"...you can try exporting the local map of the world which can be much more quickly searched for the distinctive red ≈ symbol. " How does one do that? --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 02:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:Right after generating your world, there is an option to export the map. I think it maps to 'p' but I can't swear to it now. I don't know if there is a way to do it at a time other than right after generation. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:45, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
::Legends screen lets you export maps as well, but they don't have the special features enabled, even with all applicable options enabled. Probably on the todo list 'somewhere', but can't imagine it's even semi-important. So you'll have to rely on worldgen exports. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
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::I thought it was just the region map you can export, not the local map, and a red ≈ just means desert and/or red sand on that map. You can see named volcanoes on it though -- red ^s.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:16, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br />
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::It's mapped to "P". Capital. [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 21:01, 12 February 2009 (EST)<br />
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== Temperature setting ==<br />
<br />
While magma will not cause fires while the temperature is turned off in the init file, it seems the game remembers at least some of the fires it would have caused. I was playing with temperature off and tunneled into magma rather carelessly, knowing it wouldn't hurt me, later, when I turned the temperature on in that game, the dwarves that came into contact with the magma were immediately set on fire. This was about a year later in game. I checked back several times by quitting without saving, every time I turned the temperature on, those same dwarves caught fire, with the temperature off, there was no indication of fire what so ever.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 23:36, 23 January 2009 (EST)<br />
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:Oh wow, I can imagine tons of uses for that, especially when toady makes it so that you can go and raid the goblins... Kamikaze dwarves, anyone? Well, I guess it should be in the article, but it would be nice to do more testing first. I think that if a dwarf falls in water, he stops burning. So if you could find out if they, after being put out with temperature off, still lit up next time we could put it in. Do more research, I would but I have had trouble with DF lately, it has been mad slow.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 00:01, 24 January 2009 (EST)<br />
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::Well, temperatures are flows, and items remember how warm they are, so presumably the dwarves that burst into flames are still at a ridiculous temperature and haven't cooled down. That, or the coating of magma on their bodies is causing them to burn...--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 00:36, 24 January 2009 (EST)<br />
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::: It has got to be the coating, as you say. Turning off the tempurature means that they should STOP remembering. The flows should not be calculated, and the items should have nothing to remember. Thats why turning it off speeds up the game, especially in extreme environs or around magma. There was, however, nothing listed that I could find, so this "magma coating" is invisible to the interface. It should also be noted that it was apparently the dwarves who caught fire first, and their burning flesh that apparently set their clothes on fire moments later.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 12:29, 24 January 2009 (EST)<br />
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::::Check specifically for magma splatters on the dwarfs in question. I wouldn't be surprised if they picked them up, similar to when creatures get doused in water. The liquid tends to stick all over them, and rarely goes away on it's own. Best bet to preserve them would be to construct a waterfall-shower, and hope it washes away the magma spatter, rather than creating obsidian ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:11, 25 January 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yer, looks like the dawrfs got their Pigtail socks a coating of magma. Then magma goes boom.--[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 08:08, 19 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Site finder==<br />
<br />
Will magma Pipes always show up on the local map? Because my site finder keeps throwing up sites with no visible magma on the local map. --[[User:ArneHD|ArneHD]] 17:09, 12 February 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:No, magma pipes don't always reach the surface, and therefore won't always show up on the embark map. You can find out it's actual location by taking a guess based off of what stone layers are shown where in the embark map, or you can go to your init.txt and change SHOW_EMBARK_M_PIPE to ALWAYS. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 17:29, 12 February 2009 (EST)<br />
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== Magma-swimming Baby ==<br />
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For some reason, someone has dropped their baby into the magma. The strange thing is, it aint burning up. Its lying there, and apparently has done so for a long time. Its hungry and thirsty. --[[User:Myroc|Myroc]] 15:26, 21 February 2009 (EST)<br />
:I once had a mother get trapped behind a magma bulkhead with her baby. She died promptly. The baby just sorta sat in the magma flow for about a year before it died too. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:40, 21 February 2009 (EST)<br />
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== Spawn Distance For Creatures? ==<br />
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How far from the magma pipe can fire snakes (and imps, if they spawn) appear? Also, are they limited to spawning near the magma pipe itself, or ANY magma (i.e., a magma tap leading across the map into your fortress)?<br />
:The pipe itself--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Hidden Magma Pipe ==<br />
So I just got the message 'You have discovered a magma pipe.' This made me very happy, because I had no idea that magma was on my map, and the area is completely devoid of trees, which means I won't have to worry about charcoal as much. Anywhos, after getting the message and looking around the level... I can't find it anywhere! I assumed that you get the message when your dwarf mines a tile next to the pipe or something, but I can't find it anywhere, not even on the local map. Magma forges are enabled, so that must mean that I did find one... But is there any way of finding the darn thing? I assumed it was from some of my exploratory mining, but after looking around that area and even digging further into the rock, I don't see anything. Is it possible that the magma pipe is off the level or something, so I get the message but can't see it? Arg, this is so annoying. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 00:34, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Try zooming in on any magma related creatures from the units menu. You could also zoom in on the newest (last) obsidian stone listed on the stocks menu I think. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 04:21, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Check for a [[Magma#Using_magma|Magma Cap]]. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:12, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::I tried looking at the units list... Only a couple dead kobolds, a few camels, and my dwarves... So that's a no go. And there are 15 obsidian stones in my stocks, but the zoom function is grayed out... And my bookkeeper is at 100% efficiency. I also tried looking for a magma cap, but I couldn't find one. Aha! Success! I made an obsidian stockpile, and watched where my all-knowing dwarves went, and I found the source of the obsidian. I tried digging from that point, and I found it! It's a bit small, but I suppose the diameter doesn't matter much when it's a magma pipe. Thanks for your help, guys. Also, I know that talk pages aren't meant to be used as forums or anything, but is it against the rules and/or frowned upon to ask questions on the talk pages?<br />
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::: It's fine, it might even be a good thing, since we can add other tidbit of information to a main article if needed. Feel free to ask question (as long as it is in the appropriate place. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 13:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Items Caught In Cooling Magma ==<br />
After one of my wrestlers got pulled into a magma vent, I noticed that his Steel equipment only sank a single Z level. This brings up the idea that, if I were to pour water over the surface and harden that Z level, I could presumably recover the equipment. But will items caught in hardening magma be destroyed? Or merely trapped in obsidian that you can mine out? --[[User:Scarecrow|Scarecrow]] 16:37, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Hm, good question. Wouldn't it make sense that the item just gets trapped, and you just have to mine out the hardened rock to get the item back? That is, if it's resistant to magma and/or the temperature's off. Right? Why would cooling the magma destroy the object? Unless the game had it coded where like, a tile of stone being created removes all the items from the block. Which would suck. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 17:48, 9 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:: Items lost in rivers or moats can be recovered by mining the ice in winter. It is not unreasonable to assume that magma/obsidian behaves like water/ice in this respect. This begs testing, obviously. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 21:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::Tested this by a) dropping (non-magma safe) rocks into a river and then pouring in Lava, they were recoverable. b) putting a couple of similar rocks as well as a nickel-silver bar and a constructed nickle-silver bridge into a room, letting enough magma in to cover the floor, and then adding water before the rocks had melted. All items were recoverable and the bridge was still intact after digging it out. --[[User:Mael|Mael]] 00:08, 15 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::::Nice! That means my Obsidian Tomb trap concept just got a lot better! --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 14:10, 20 August 2009<br />
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== Flies spawning from magma? ==<br />
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I don't know why, but I've observed flies (normal and acorn flies, mostly normal flies) spawning at the edge of magma where its melting rock. It's particularily noticeable when you have magma channels under your forging area since the confined space tends to concentrate them. Also, they will come out of any magma access holes you have dug. I'm using the Mayday graphics mod, so no idea if it's an artifact. My theory is that they represent vapors coming out of the magma as it melts the rock it encounters. I also added this fact to the flies page as well. --[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 14:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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This has happened to me as well, it dosn't have anything to do with the graphics mod because I don't use it, I thought it was part of the civi forge mod I have been using, my personal theory it that flies spawn from refuse and molten rocks are refuse, it might also be from the dirt that magma makes because once I found a dwarf going down to my obsidian farm to clean something, the magma had cleared because my watergate broke(I suspect that an elven plot or carp are the cause).The ground had marks on it and I saw my cleaner cleaning it up.The flies may be attracted to "dirty" tiles but i'm not sure.--[[User:Supercharazard|Supercharazard]] 17:30, 12 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Digging into volcano wall ==<br />
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While the article says you need unbelievably fast to avoid getting incinierated while digging into the obsidian wall, this doesn't seem to be true. More important than speed is to make sure the digger has a designated mining section a few blocks away to immiedately start working on so he doesn't get that split second pause before switching labor. With this method I got a miner with merely "agile" out safely. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 04:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== digging away the obsidian ==<br />
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There's something that I've not been able to find an answer for anywhere, which is if I dig away at the obsidian walls of the magma pipe (without touching the very inner layer of obsidian), will magma thats above the obisidan tile be able to leak down or is there a floor under the magma tile (above the obsidian) that'll prevent it from spilling out? --[[User:Kain|Kain]] 21:26, 26 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:If there was a natural tile one z-level down, then there is a floor there. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 00:06, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Producing Obsidian section ==<br />
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The example directly on the page is difficult to understand--some diagrams would be helpful. Really, detailed designs like that should be on user pages anyway. It would be swell if the person who added this design put it on their own user page and linked to that from here. --[[User:King of the Internet|King of the Internet]] 01:29, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed, needs some simple diagram(s) (not over-specific, easily understood/modified to suit individual needs), but also needs to be 1) [[Character_table|standard notation]], and 2) on this page. If it's on a user page, other users really can't edit it if needed (for instance, to standardize the map symbols - the wall, specifically). --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:07, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Edit - upon reflection, there's every reason to give this topic its own page. [[Obsidian farming]]. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:53, 9 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Lava ==<br />
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Lava is the same substance, but this name for the material is seen less often seen. <br />It seems to be the result of a 1/7 magma flow onto floor tiles, before it evaporates.{{verify}}<br />
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Magma that occurs [[Tile attributes|above ground]] is referred to as '''Lava'''.<br />
Nope, sorry - I may not have the whole definition, but your limits are just wrong. I noticed "lava" underground while piercing an aquifer. It had been pumped down from the surface, but it was then underground, and had overflow from making obsidian on water onto a floor tile - and none of the other magma doing the work was "lava", it was all "magma". So was every bit of the magma vent that was exposed. So... I don't know where that leaves us, but for now neither may be (completely) right.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:55, 28 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
*I've got an above-ground magma pipeline that briefly passes through an underground passage - it becomes Lava once it goes above ground, turns ''back'' into Magma once it enters the subterranean tunnel, then becomes lava again when it emerges. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:30, 28 September 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Magma&diff=5512540d:Magma2009-10-15T15:08:28Z<p>Zchris13: </p>
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<div>'''Magma''' is red-hot molten rock present in [[volcano]]es, as well as magma pools and magma pipes. It serves as an energy source, powering [[magma forge]]s, [[magma glass furnace]]s and [[magma smelter]]s, which do not "use it up" in any way. It is ''extremely'' dangerous, and has led to the death of many dwarfs, and many fortresses.<br />
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Magma never cools, but can [[evaporation|evaporate]] if left at a depth of 1/7 for ong enough. If mixed with water it can form obsidian (see below).<br />
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'''Lava''' is the same substance. Magma is what it is called underground, while it is called Lava if it is above ground. <!-- see talk page.--><br />
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==Magma sources==<br />
Magma occurs in three different features; magma pools, magma pipes, and [[Volcano|volcanoes]]. <br />
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* A '''magma pool''' is a reservoir of magma that occupies only a few Z-Levels in the mountain, without reaching the surface. Magma pools can be very small, and may have few suitable locations for buildings that rely on magma. Magma in these pools is limited, and pools will not refill with magma once emptied.<br />
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* A '''magma pipe''' starts at the lowest z-level of the map from a magma (or lava) flow and extend in a pipe shape upwards, sometimes reaching the surface but often not. Magma Pipes gradually refill with magma.<br />
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* A '''[[volcano]]''' is similar to a magma pipe, but it has the advantage of being a geographical feature that is visible on the [[location]] screen. This means that it is a lot easier to find. However, it IS actually possible for a volcano that shows up on the "local" and region screen in the starting location chooser to be entirely underground - Although you could see it in the starting location chooser, it would not be visible from the surface once your dwarves have arrived at the fort's site.<br />
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* A magma "'''vent'''" is the generic, non-game term for either a pipe or pool. When the distinction doesn't matter, it's commonly referred to as a vent.<br />
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== Finding magma ==<br />
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Volcanoes are visible on the "local" screen in the starting location chooser. It is represented as a red ≈ mark (a double tilde) - essentially it looks like red water. Note that red ≈ marks in the "region" screen mean something different entirely (e.g. red sand). <br />
If you are using a certain [[utility]], you can also see magma pools and magma pipes on the local screen in the embark menu. <br />
After you have embarked for a place that has a volcano, and once your dwarves have arrived at their target destination, you should see a large red pool of lava on your map. If you don't, you should expect your volcano to be somewhere underground. You then have to use [[exploratory mining]] to find it. If you can find a large patch of obsidian on the surface that is devoid of boulders, chances are there is a magma vent below, so that would be a good place to start your mining.<br />
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While picking a starting location, the easiest place to look for magma is on or near a [[volcano]] (a red ^ mark in the "region" screen). There are often volcanic islands (easy to find, since they are the sole land in the middle of oceans), but since sea travel is not yet implemented, trade with other races may not be possible on such islands. Instead, find a volcano on land, and (optionally) start looking for a vent in nearby squares. "Nearby squares" can mean anything from literally on top of the volcano, to adjacent, to quite a long distance away indeed. The placement of magma seems to be related to the distance from volcanoes, but is still essentially random.<br />
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Magma vents occur exclusively in world map tiles that are primarily [[igneous extrusive]]. That is to say, if you select an entire tile on the embarkation screen and press F1 to highlight the most common terrain, the tile will only have magma if the top stone is dark gray, signifying igneous extrusive rock. Magma does not necessarily form in this geological zone/biome, rather anywhere in the tile. Even if magma is not evident on the surface, it's almost certain to be underground somewhere, though the chances of finding it without reveal.exe are still slim.<br />
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Much harder than simply finding a magma vent is finding a magma vent that is also near suitable terrain for building. Depending on your requirements - you may be looking for a source of running [[water]], or a [[mountain]] for minerals, or a healthy [[tree]] population, a layer of [[flux]] for [[steel]] production or even all four - suitable building sites can be extremely scarce.<br />
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Since volcanoes show up on the region finder, and magma vents do not, you may find it easier to simply check all volcanoes on a map for suitability, and generate a new world if none are suitable, rather than scouring tile after tile for magma vents.<br />
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If you're willing to search exhaustively, you might want to consider finding magma vents that are not near volcanoes at all. Very occasionally, magma will be visible in the middle of forests, plains, or other terrain nowhere near a volcano or even mountains. There is no way to spot these on the region map, so you have to review the local maps. This can be done from DF, but since it involves a lot of scrolling and is very tedious, you can try exporting the local map of the world which can be much more quickly searched for the distinctive red ≈ symbol.<br />
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You can also occasionally find magma that does not extend all the way to the surface, and therefore is not visible on the local map. These are in fact much more numerous than surface-visible magma vents; however, they are almost impossible to find without cheating via one of the [[utilities]] like "reveal.exe", since unlike proper magma vents these smaller deposits must be almost literally mined into to see (you will get a warning about "warm stone" before you actually breach the deposit). These smaller magma deposits appear in the same places as normal magma vents - near volcanoes, or, failing that, near other known magma.<br />
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The newly-added "Site Finder" feature neatly sidesteps all of this legwork, allowing you to search for a site with a magma pool or pipe without having to manually check each tile on the world map. Note that unless you edit the .init file so that magma features are shown on the local map, you won't know exactly ''where'' the lava is prior to embarking- just that it exists. Depending on whether or not you like a little mystery, this can be turned on or off at will.<br />
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== Using magma ==<br />
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On a map with a magma vent, the magma will be clearly visible from every level ground and below, unless the map is in a Freezing area. In Freezing areas, the top few levels of the vent will have cooled to form an [[obsidian]] "cap". This should still be readily recognizable however, as it will comprise a circular area. The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores.<br />
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[[Image:magmacap.png|thumb|188px|Obsidian "magmacap" as seen from ground level]]<br />
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The vent has a similar, circular shape on each level. However, it is not identical from one level to the next; some levels will have a larger or somewhat misshapen circle of magma.<br />
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The primary use for magma is to power [[magma smelter]]s, [[magma glass furnace]]s and [[magma forge]]s. (There are other uses, including defense, [[obsidian]] production, and possibly even garbage disposal.) To build forges, etc. on magma, at least one of the external eight squares must be above a square of magma.<br />
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This can be done most easily by simply building on ground level. The magma is visible from ground level but is actually contained one level below ground level, just like any ground-level water source.<br />
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To build underground, you will need to dig at least one tile of a [[channel]] down from the location you wish to build the smelter or forge. Eventually, flowing into this channel (on that lower z-level immediately below the forge or smelter), there must be magma, either from the pipe/pool itself or channeled from the vent. You can simply build a tunnel straight into the magma (and lose the miner who digs it 99% of the time), or use [[channel]]ing to tap into the magma safely from the level above - this latter requires the lower level to be wider than the upper, to jut out so that last tile can be channeled away from above to free the magma into the tunnel system on that level. <br />
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Tapping into magma directly is usually safe provided that you are prepared for it (see Pressure note below). Magma is much slower than water, and can be stopped by any [[magma-safe]] [[floodgate]], [[door]] or etc. with a [[bauxite]] mechanism. Take care however if you are using a [[screwpump]] to pump magma into a tunnel/funnel with a cistern below - the pump will make the magma overflow as it would with water. <br />
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Volcanoes and magma pipes slowly replenish their supply of magma. A miner with less than Unbelievably Agile will die when breaching a magma tube as he can't move away quick enough.<br />
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=== Producing Obsidian ===<br />
Magma can also be used to produce [[obsidian]], a stone which has a base value of 3 (compare with 1 for normal [[stone]] and 2 for [[flux]] stones), and which can be used to make swords at a [[Craftsdwarf's Workshop]]. <br />
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See [[Obsidian farming]].<br />
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==Magma flow==<br />
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[[Image:Safemagma.png|thumb|188px|Magma safely diverted underground (cross section)]]<br />
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Magma is a chunky liquid and as such will not be affected by pressure under normal circumstances.<br />
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Thus it can be safely passed through tunnels to be used at a lower point in the fortress.<br />
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A frequent mistake, however, is to assume that a channel is sufficient to cause magma to fall. While magma will not rise out of a channel, it can flow over the top once the channel fills up.<br />
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Another common mistake has to deal with magma pipes and volcanos in Freezing areas. Many people will channel into the obsidian cap and then into the magma through there. However, once a tile of the obsidian 'cap' is breached, the tile directly above the breach will then be included as part of the magma pipe and the magma will begin rising until it has filled that square. For fortresses that tapped into the magma, this can result in waves of magma slowly filling up the fortress from the bottom level up to the magma pipe's new top level. The magma can continue to rise all of the way to the surface if an entire section of the obsidian cap is channeled. The magma will not harden into obsidian again, though, just from the cold temperatures.<br />
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[[Image:Unsafemagma.png|thumb|188px|Danger: This will overflow (cross section)]]<br />
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(v0.28.181.40d:) Also note that screw pumps can cause magma to behave oddly. Magma that is emerging pumped from a screwpump will behave as if pressurized, and be forced upwards to the same level as the pump. However, this only occurs while the pump is actively pumping magma into a tile that is already full. It seems likely that this behavior is a result of code in the pump ignoring what type of fluid is being pumped, causing the pumped fluid to be passed to a connected tile as if pressurized. It may not be desired behavior, and thus may change in subsequent versions. It is possible to use this effect to channel magma from distant source. If you happen to have constructed your fortress very far from the magma source, you can use a screw pump to "pressurize" the magma to force to flow much more quickly. Where unpressurized magma might take years to flow across the map, pressurized magma would just take a few days.<br />
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[[Image:Pumpedmagma.png|thumb|154px|Pumps will cause magma to rise to the level of the pump (cross section)]]<br />
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==Magma compared to water==<br />
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Magma is a chunky liquid. As such, it acts like water in certain circumstances, but acts differently in others.<br />
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===Similarities===<br />
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*Magma fills a tile and has seven possible depths.<br />
*Magma flows outward and downward to expand into clear space.<br />
*Screw pumps work in magma.<br />
*Floodgates and [[pressure plate]]s work in magma.<br />
*Constructed [[wall]]s of all kinds safely contain magma.<br />
*Objects thrown into magma sink to the bottom.<br />
*Magma that is only 1 deep "evaporates" over time.<br />
*Magma will create mist.<br />
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===Differences===<br />
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*Magma is extremely hot, and capable of melting objects and buildings made of most materials (see [[Magma#Magma vs. built objects|Magma vs. built objects]]) and thus destroying them.<br />
*Magma is not normally pressurized, it seeps out of holes slower than water and slow enough for any [[dwarves]] to outrun, unless they are the ones digging into it.<br />
*Magma only spawns directly above the "Magma Flow" tiles at the bottom of a [[Magma#Magma sources|magma pipe]], and only up to the original top level. Otherwise, its level may rise only by dripping more magma from above, and new magma may only distribute itself by moving down or to the sides, but never up.<br />
*Magma reacts violently with water, releasing steam and leaving behind tiles of solid obsidian which can be mined, smoothed or engraved like any natural tile.<br />
*Magma cannot be used to satisfy [[thirst]].<br />
*[[Magma mist]] is not generated by falling magma, but only by a [[cave-in]].<br />
*Magma mist will not generate happy [[thought]]s, but will instead burn whatever it touches.<br />
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== Magma vs. built objects ==<br />
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Some objects that come in contact with magma will function fine, no matter what their material. Others will melt or cease to work properly unless they're made of [[magma-safe materials]]. <br />
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* [[Workshop]]s that are powered by magma need not be built of magma-safe materials to function - [[fire-safe]] materials are sufficient.<br />
* Constructed objects like [[wall]]s, [[floor]]s, [[stairs]] and [[ramps]] can be made of any material, even those that are not "Magma-safe", and can come into contact with magma without issues. <br />
* Like walls, [[door]]s can also be built out of any material and still hold back lava as long as it's in the "closed" position. It may be wise to make sure hallways/rooms close to an engineering project involving magma have plenty of doors, just in case you have a little too much [[fun]] when you forget to build that last [[floodgate]].<br />
* [[Bridge]]s that are built <i>over</i> magma may be constructed of any material. However, bridges that are <i>submerged</i> in magma must be constructed of a magma-safe material.<br />
* Most machines must be made of [[magma-safe materials]] to function for more than a few minutes in magma. This includes [[floodgate]]s. Unsafe materials will function for a while, but then melt or burn away. Screw pumps made from flammable materials (wood, possibly also graphite, lignite, or bituminous coal blocks) can catch fire, though stone and metal components need not be magma-safe unless the rear tile of the pump is submerged.<br />
* Stone [[mechanism]]s attached to a construction will melt in magma unless made of bauxite or [[raw adamantine]], even if the construction itself is made of [[steel]].<br />
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If even a single component of a submerged building melts (whether a chalk mechanism on a steel floodgate or a copper sword in a weapon trap), the entire building will deconstruct.<br />
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== Magma creatures ==<br />
[[Fire imp]]s, [[fire man|firemen]], [[magma man|magma men]], and [[fire snake]]s inhabit Magma. Fire snakes are a type of [[vermin]] that can set your fortress on [[fire]] with little to no warning. Like all other vermin, they may spawn a short distance outside their native environment, meaning they can appear in any region near a magma pipe, even if the region and magma have no physical connection.<br />
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== Temperature settings ==<br />
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Magma is almost harmless if temperature is disabled in the Dwarf Fortress init file. It can still trap and suffocate or simply starve your dwarves in some situations. It will not melt bridges, etc. constructed of non-[[magma-proof]] materials.<br />
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== Magma reactions ==<br />
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*Flowing water: If magma happens to contact water it produces some steam and [[obsidian]]. Steam is no longer deadly (as in the old 2D version) so steam traps are ineffective; however, it is now much safer to cast large volumes of [[obsidian]] inside mined or constructed molds. The resulting slabs of [[obsidian]] are functionally identical to native stone.<br />
*[[Activity zone|Pond]] water: A bucket of water dumped onto magma from directly above will cause all of the magma in the tile to disappear in a puff of steam. If dropped from more than one Z-level up, obsidian will be created as expected.<br />
*[[Brook]]s: If magma comes in contact with a brook, it will not produce steam, but will turn the water tile below the brook to obsidian, and give the brook tile the appearance of a dried-up brook.<br />
*Rocks: [[stone|Rock]]s left over from mining will melt if magma covers them. During the season change, all molten rock is automatically removed (at the same time as blood/vomit).<br />
*Trees: [[Tree]]s will not (yet) burn or be destroyed by magma.<br />
*Pressure: Magma does not transmit [[water pressure|pressure]].<br />
*Speed: Magma flows at the same rate as unpressurized water.<br />
*In a volcano or a magma pipe, magma will occasionally appear in small columns above its surface [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=26201.msg311730#msg311730] if it is below its original level. It will not be created above floors. It will be created in 7s, and will probably spread around in few seconds. This may be deadly to unlucky dwarves standing around. Therefore, to be sure to avoid casualties, do not build workshops inside the pipe itself except at the highest level of magma.<br />
*Cave-in: A cave-in of natural tiles or (more than one) constructed tiles landing in magma will cause potentially lethal [[magma mist]].<br />
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[[Category:Physics]]<br />
{{Magma FAQ}}</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Cross-training&diff=5492140d:Cross-training2009-10-13T16:50:13Z<p>Zchris13: /* Training masons */</p>
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<div>'''Cross-training''' is training your military dwarf candidates in civilian disciplines (or vice versa), and offers multiple benefits. First and most importantly, it gives you several extra [[attribute]] increases. Toughness, especially, is extremely important for military dwarves; it allows them to take more wounds before passing out from pain, and to recover from wounds faster. Second, it provides a ready pool of recruits in case your military takes a beating at one point or another, and/or allows civilians a better-than-normal chance to defend themselves. Third, it ensures that your [[soldier]]s have some domestic skills so they will not receive [[thoughts|unhappy thoughts]] from being de-activated from the [[military]] in the event you need to downsize, or just need some extra labor short-term. Finally, most reserves programs provide chronic idlers with some work to do, which can be essential for unskilled workers like peasants to break out of their poverty (and therefore, unhappiness) cycle once the [[dwarven economy]] kicks in. <br />
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There is nothing saying you have to use only one of these ideas; they are all various approaches toward addressing these areas.<br />
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==Cross-training (starting a reserves program)==<br />
The biggest thing to remember with a reserves program is that if you're going to go, you go all the way. Don't institute something "just for a little while" and come up with a handful of novice reservists; they will not get significant stat increases and you'll only waste time. Time is not something you have a heck of a lot of in a reserves program, typically. Remember that after you draft them, most dwarves are going to need about a year of sparring or training before they're ready for heavy combat. You might not have that much time if you are getting sieges regularly.<br />
<br />
===Different Programs:===<br />
====Gym ([[pump operator]])====<br />
[[Image:Pump_farm.png|thumb|right|71px|No pain, no gain.]]<br />
The Gym is the most basic sort of reserves program; it merely consists of building a bunch of [[screw pump]]s connected to nothing in a room that's close to [[food]], [[beds]], and [[drink]]. After the pumps are built, order them to be pumped manually, then turn on [[Pump operator|pump operating]] for your reservists.<br />
<br />
[[Toughness]] influences how tired your dwarves get. Tougher dwarves can operate a pump longer before getting tired, meaning they will gain skill more quickly than non-tough dwarves. Once dwarves hit Unbelievably Tough, they can operate pumps non-stop.<br><br />
'''Pros:'''<br />
*Easy to set up; 4 pumps in the gym will keep at least 8-10 reservists busy around the clock.<br />
*Extra pumps can be added to expand operations very easily.<br />
*Requires no continuous oversight on your part.<br />
*Somewhat fast training; legendary in under a year (if other responsibilities like hauling are minimized).<br />
*Very safe; gyms can be placed anywhere in the comfort of your fortress with no issues.<br><br />
*If you're really clever, you might be able to arrange your pumps so they power one or more indoor [[waterfall]]s. To get the full benefit of this approach, you would probably have to design your fortress around the waterfalls. Remember not to dig under their feeding tubes!<br />
'''Cons:''' <br />
*Tons of cancel job spam. Every time a reservist exhausts himself and goes to satisfy his basic needs, you'll see "<dwarf> cancels Operate Pump: Exhausted."<br />
*If you have any pumps around that actually DO need to be operated every so often (refilling your [[well]], for example), it could be a serious pain to juggle the useless gym pumps and the ones that are actually useful.<br />
<br />
====Artillery proving ground ([[siege operator]])====<br />
Mass-produce some catapults, line them up near a quarry, and fire away. Works well to dispose of stone from a gulag (see below).<br><br />
'''Pros:'''<br />
*Trains a skill that's reasonably useful, and provides a place to put all the sub-par siege engine components your [[siege engineer]] will doubtlessly create if you're going for superior-quality engines.<br />
*Harasses the wildlife, which is always fun.<br><br />
'''Cons:''' <br />
*Very slow to train (2+ years for legendary).<br />
*Fairly space-consuming to set up a well-designed and usable proving ground.<br />
*Can be dangerous depending on the biome (especially when [[elephant]]s are present. If they get winged by a stray boulder, you can bet they're going to be coming straight at you).<br />
*[[Siege operator]]s are civilians, and will run in fear when an enemy approaches them.<br />
<br />
====Internship ([[bookkeeper]])====<br />
Turn on highest precision bookkeeping and rotate the appointed noble in and out the second he becomes a legendary bookkeeper.<br><br />
'''Pros:'''<br />
*Requires no extra infrastructure at all.<br />
*You need a bookkeeper anyway!<br />
*Totally safe; a bookkeeper spends basically all his discretionary time snug in his office.<br />
*Trains outrageously fast; if the office is very close to [[food]], [[beds]], and [[drink]], a bookkeeper can be legendary or close to it in a mere season.<br><br />
'''Cons:'''<br />
*Only employs one dwarf at a time; not useful when you have 15-25 candidates for the reserves. <br />
*No announcement when the current intern reaches Legendary status means you can lose time on rotation easily.<br />
<br />
====Gulag ([[miner]])====<br />
The gulag is basically a strip mine that is located far away from your main fortress (so you don't have to worry about accidentally screwing up your own building plans; if you are careful in planning, it may be placed closer to your fortress). Take a big square and start leveling it; it's really no more complicated than that. Since [[pick]]s can actually be used as weapons, it's worthwhile to give the reservists who will be working in the gulag picks made out of [[iron]], or, if you are really living large, [[steel]]. Note that you will have to turn your usual mining corps (the civilian miners who are already experienced with mining) off for this setup to work properly.<br><br />
'''Pros:''' <br />
*Soldiers enter the military with an emergency weapon in their hand already; this can be critical in the case of [[speardwarf|speardwarves]], who have a habit of losing their weapons in an enemy, or [[marksdwarf|marksdwarves]], who are forced to use the [[hammerdwarf]] skill in melee, which they may not even have. <br />
*Toting a pick for close-quarters support might make a legendary [[marksdwarf]] more useful, since the pathetic bludgeon damage of his [[wood]] and [[bone]] [[crossbows]] are less important.<br />
*Can be quite useful for producing stones you might not have access to normally, or uncovering veins of precious metals.<br />
*Levels quite fast in sand.<br />
*Relatively little oversight from you.<br />
*An overland hike to the gulag will fight [[cave adaptation]] in your military candidates.<br><br />
'''Cons:'''<br />
*Juggling your real miners and your reservists when there's real work to be done on the fort can be a chore.<br />
*Hard to keep dwarves in the gulag for too long; they'll inevitably get hungry, thirsty, and tired and start hiking back to the fortress proper.<br />
*Can be dangerous, depending on the biome.<br />
*Does require some amount of oversight from you, especially when your reservists start getting better at mining and run out of work more quickly.<br />
<br />
====Renovation ([[stone detailing]])====<br />
Another convenient way to buff up your dwarves, assigning your reservists to mass [[stone detailing]] duty increases your fortress' architectural wealth and makes the place look nicer. While they may clutter the halls somewhat, it doesn't require any special allocation of [[food]], [[beds]] or [[drink]]. Just turn on [[stone detailing]] for your reservists and mark up as much of the fortress as you like for renovation.<br><br />
'''Pros:'''<br />
*Even easier to set up; just assign your dwarves and an area and you're good to go.<br />
*Increases your fortress' value and general happiness.<br />
*Requires no continuous oversight on your part.<br />
*Very safe, if you only assign areas inside the fortress.<br><br />
'''Cons:''' <br />
*Wealth overflow may bring too many [[immigrants]].<br />
*Serious conflict with [[engraving]] assignments; trying to engrave with poorly trained engravers wastes a lot of wealth that essentially comes from nothing. To avoid this, have periods when you only designate stone smoothing, followed by periods where you only designate engraving.<br />
*Careless designation of smoothing areas may have your dwarves trying to smooth walls too close to [[magma]] or a [[river]].<br />
<br />
====Sweatshop ([[mason]])====<br />
Make one or more [[mason's workshop]]s in an area with a bunch of junk stone you don't care about, or that you're actively looking to clear. Change the workshop settings to allow only your reservists to use it, then tell the workshop to churn out crafts, junk furniture, stone blocks, and trade goods that you can trade en-masse. Alternatively, forbid your reservists from working in your real mason's workshops, order lots of stone constructions built, and pray that your real masons stay too occupied with the workshops to intrude. Works well in conjunction with a gulag. Alternate ideas for sweatshops include a [[mechanic's workshop]] or a [[magma glass furnace]] to train [[mechanic]] and [[glassmaker]] respectively. ''Note: Do NOT try this with the [[carpenter]] skill, or any other resource you don't have in near-limitless abundance. Sweatshops will consume huge amounts of their associated resources, and if you run out mid-way you have probably wasted your time. This includes [[coke]] or [[charcoal]] used in the normal (non-magma) [[glass furnace]].''<br><br />
'''Pros:''' <br />
*Quantitatively turns a profit. The inferior trade goods can be dumped on the next caravan for more useful commodities like bags, seeds, and logs. Logs are especially useful, since you'll inevitably stamp out lots of bins to support the trade good output.<br />
*Mass-producing blocks makes your constructions higher value.<br />
*Unlike many other training programs, Sweatshops train a skill that is very useful.<br><br />
'''Cons:'''<br />
*Slow to level.<br />
*Hard to keep the reservists on task, since they'll need to do plenty of hauling to keep their workshop from becoming chokingly cluttered.<br />
*Can be a logistical nightmare; making bins and organizing hauling for the finished goods can be insane if you're working from a gulag.<br />
*Can be dangerous depending on the biome and location of your sweatshops.<br />
*Note also that stone blocks cannot be made into furniture or stone crafts. This may or may not be an issue depending on where you're putting your gulag.<br />
<br />
====Dwarf Powered Mill ([[grower]],[[cook]],[[miller]])====<br />
Start off by creating a surplus of [[longland grass]], [[cave wheat]], and/or [[whip vine]] and some bags. Create multiple [[quern]] all close to the food stockpile which contains the millable plants. Next to this area make a [[kitchen]] assigned to an experienced cook. Enable milling for the dwarves you wish to cross-train and order the cook to make lavish meals. As long as your growers provide a steady supply of millable plants and your cook can empty out bags quick enough, the milling jobs will continue.<br><br />
'''Pros:''' <br />
*Produces a lot of wealth as flour is a high value ingredient<br />
*Produces high amounts of food<br />
*Sustains the training of non cross-training dwarves such as the cook and growers<br><br />
'''Cons:'''<br />
*Requires a surplus of millable plants to ensure continuous milling, thus you may need to increase the number of plots/growers<br />
*If you don't have enough bags and your cook decides to go on break you may end up having job cancellations for the millers<br />
*Dedicated haulers will be required to keep all workshops clutter free<br />
<br />
====Clear Cutting====<br />
As long as wood hauling is turned off, dwarves will move from one tree to the next without stopping to bring the wood back. On a heavily forested map, this means that dedicated wood cutters can skill up very quickly.<br><br />
Of course, this training strategy isn't going endear you with the elves.<br><br />
<br />
'''Pros:'''<br />
*Works quickly<br />
*Trees regrow<br />
*Provides useful lumber to carpenters, charcoal makers, etc <br />
'''Cons:'''<br />
*Can cause problems with elves<br />
*Map dependent<br />
*Unless care is taken to only designate a small area for cutting, trainees and haulers can be spread out across the map while, making them vulnerable to creatures and ambushes. (Otoh, if done with more than a few dwarves at a time, a small squad of axew-wielding [[military|recruit]]s is not completely defenseless, and military can be stationed as support.)<br />
<br />
===Overview===<br />
*The gym is the best way to train large amounts of dwarves, though it is relatively slow compared to other methods.<br />
*Artillery training can give you some siege operators, which will be useful if you have ballistae.<br />
*The internship is very fast, but only trains up one dwarf at a time. Your stocks could also lag behind if you are unlucky.<br />
*The gulag requires planning, and your dwarves in the fortress proper may run all the way to the gulag to grab a stone for some crafts, a chair, etc. It does, however, train your dwarves in mining quickly, which is always a useful skill.<br />
*Renovation is hands-free, but may bloat your fortress wealth too quickly.<br />
*The sweatshop creates a large amount of goods, which can be traded away to keep traders happy. It also increases your wealth by quite a lot, which can be good or bad depending upon your situation. The goods are also difficult to manage.<br />
<br />
Note that the gym, artillery training, and internship don't take away [[strange mood]] potential (you can give those dwarves dabbling in anything you want and that's how they'll get theirs), while the gulag, renovation, and sweatshop do.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
<br />
=Army corps of engineers=<br />
Your actual soldiers are obviously only one facet to your military preparation. [[defense|Defensive]] structures like [[fortification]]s, [[moat]]s, and above-ground bunkers need civilian support, and they need to be constructed - and sometimes that's as dangerous as military service itself. In the best of times it should be done quickly and efficiently, because faster means less time vulnerable to a possible [[ambush]] or dangerous [[carp|predator]]. In emergencies, having a trained, reliable workforce, with enough manpower to tackle any job at any time and can accomplish those projects quickly can be a fortress saver.<br />
<br />
The incredible amount of effort required to complete full defensive preparations on many maps (even building a single-floor above ground bunker can take multiple seasons of full-time effort) means that the military can benefit greatly from having a corps of dwarves who are dedicated and trained to support the development full time.<br />
<br />
Organizing a Corps of Engineers requires extra effort and planning on your part, but pays off big later on. Corps engineers become incredibly useful and will produce superior, happiness-inducing structures and items even after their chief issues are done. Also, since their highest [[strange mood]] eligible skill tends to be [[masonry]], it improves your chances of getting a legendary [[mason]], which is always a treat.<br />
<br />
===Organizing===<br />
The bread and butter skill of the engineer corps are [[masonry]] along with [[mechanics]], and some [[architecture]] thrown in for some trainees (but not necessarily all, see below). Candidates really don't need any prior skills, but if you can recruit some [[immigrant]]s that come with one of these skills already, so much the better. The long term result is a crew that can build anything anywhere, but not until after some training, so you should not use any dwarves who will be needed elsewhere soon. Assign [[potash maker]]s, [[soaper]]s, and the like instead. Miners that have run out of digging work and are suddenly idle (and already have [[attribute]]s for faster hauling of building stones) are also good candidates. You may wish to swap [[masonry]] with [[carpentry]] if you are doing a challenge where your structures are chiefly made out of wood, or conceivably even a [[metalcrafting]] skill, but the gist of it is the same.<br />
<br />
Since these dwarves may be performing a lot of construction outside, one variation includes designating them all with the [[woodcutting]] [[labour]], so they will all carry [[axe]]s full time. When wood needs to be cut, one tight area is designated at a time, and they all respond - this encourages mutual support. Other outdoor activities likewise become safer with a number of armed dwarves responding together, and faster with practice, so [[plant gathering]] may be another skill to add to the mix. Assigning war[[dog]]s to these outdoor-engineers is another good plan. (Whether or not to then train them as (reservist) axedwarves is up to you - see [[Cross_training#Cross-training_(starting_a_reserves_program)|cross-training]], at the first half of this article.)<br />
<br />
A suitable number of engineer corps members depends on personal preference and the expected scope of your projects, but you want them to support each other, so perhaps a half-dozen or more for an average fortress, or maybe ~10% total. This might seem like a lot when you have the [[fortress guard]] demanding 10%, the [[royal guard]] demanding another 5%, plus what dwarves you have committed to reserves programs or in the regular army, but your goal is a reliable building crew, large enough so they will not all be "[[on break]]" at once. Remember also that engineer corps members are civilians (with [[attribute]]s) and can be temporarily re-assigned to urgent hauling duty when the need arises, so they are not lost to other support tasks.<br />
<br />
After you've decided who you want in the engineer corps, it's suggested that you give them a [[Profession#Custom_profession_labels|custom profession]], to distinguish them in your {{k|u}}nits menu. They behave so much like normal civilians that it's hard to keep track of them if you don't. Don't use "[[Engineer]]", because that is an existing (and different) profession. Some suggestions for custom ranks are "Reserves," "Multi", "Corps Engineer", "CE", or some other profession or abbreviation that makes sense to you.<br />
<br />
===Training masons===<br />
Once your main fortress has [[what should I build first|the basics]] and things are relatively settled, build some [[mason's workshop]]s for the corps to work out of. Build as many as you have corps engineer members, to make sure that everyone is guaranteed to have work, and do it in areas that are dense with mined stones, preferably in low-traffic areas (but be careful about [[noise]]). A good place to start is anywhere you want to clear of (useless) stone, or any [[economic stone]] you want to turn into building [[block|material]] - that's what they'll be producing, and a lot of it.<br />
<br />
After the corps' workshops are set up, we'll need to change the workshop profiles to make sure the regular masons don't use them. You can do this one of two ways. First, {{k|q}}uery the workshop, and choose {{k|P}}rofile to see who is allowed to work there. Then, either:<br />
:*Lower the max skill threshhold to "Proficient" (or your choice). This lets different trainees swap workshops.<br />
:*Or, enable each of the engineer corps' members individually. Tedious, but only needs to be done once, and very effective. This allows you more control over individual engineers over an extended period.<br />
:* Or both.<br />
<br />
Then, set the corps' workshops to produce stone [[block]]s, and put that on {{k|r}}epeat. Keep it there. This is going to be the corps' only job for it's few seasons, to train up masonry.<br />
<br />
====(Why are we building blocks, again?)====<br />
A couple of reasons.<br><br />
:* 1) Blocks have no quality modifier. That means that your dabbling mason engineer corps members are producing blocks every bit as good as your legendary masons.<br />
:* 2) Blocks can be used in building constructions. What was the Corps' first job? Building, of course!<br />
:* 3) Blocks make higher-value constructions than normal stone. Constructions made out of stone will become "Rough (rock) (construction)", while block constructions will eliminate the rough modifier and contribute more to the fortress's wealth.<br />
:* 4) Blocks can be collected into bins (which is not true of raw stones), reducing stone clutter. This is important for moving them to handy on-site stockpiles.<br />
:* 5) Blocks make it easier to budget stone for constructions, so you can see if you're running low on material or using more than you expected.<br />
<br />
If you stop at no-label, you will have added 37 blocks/trainee to your stocks, 17 to Novice, and another 20 to No-Label. ''(See [[Experience]] for more info.)''<br />
<br />
All along the training process, you may, of course, be building constructions as needed. Greenhouse floors and basic walls are extremely important and should not be delayed, and this gives some [[experience]], just not as fast as the workshops. This just provides a nice blueprint to making an effective engineer corps.<br />
<br />
(If you're training carpenters, you can either mass-produce barrels and bins (you always seem to need more), or, if you are planning wooden constructions, wooden blocks.)<br />
<br />
=== Apprentice Mechanics ===<br />
Mechanic skill is important to place [[lever]]s and link them with existing devices, for traps or bridges, or whatever. It also allows them to reload [[trap]]s, and/or clear any that may have jammed, relieving your primary Mechanic of this burden. The importance of this skill depends on the extent of your use of levers and traps in your fortress design.<br />
<br />
After you're satisfied with the skill level of your trainees (no-tag is a good place to be), move on to training [[mechanic]]s. Shut down the [[mason's workshop]]s and build [[mechanic's workshop]]s where there is more ([[economic stone|non-economic]]!) stone. Start churning out (no-/low-quality) mechanisms - again, 17 each will give Novice level, another 20 each will give No-Label. After you've got a decent handful, you may decide to build experience by building levers and or linking them all a door. Don't go too overboard with training mechanics. Again, no-label is a good place to be, ample - you're just speeding things along a bit. Mechanics are not usually used enough to warrant going all out.<br />
<br />
===Architect(s)===<br />
<br />
Architecture is useful because dwarves trained in it will erect those constructions faster, and with better quality, and so seeing them will cause happy thoughts. Factor in how easy it is to train up and it's a no-brainer. Of course, feel free to stop this at any time to attend to more urgent matters.<br />
<br />
After you're done with mechanics, switch to [[architecture]] on some of your trainees. Only a few [[construction]]s and workshops need architecture, and only one architect can work on any designated structure at a time, regardless the size, so you don't (necessarily) need them all to have it. If you have one, they will train up as they build - if you have a lot, they will share the tasks and not achieve higher levels unless you stop and specifically give them more dedicated training.<br />
<br />
The easiest way to train any number of architects is to turn off their [[masonry]] labor* and designate a bunch of supports (you will eventually need 17/trainee, just to start). Use the any nearby stone or blocks that is not needed elsewhere - designate one support over one stone if you can, to reduce hauling time. After they've been designed (and now "need masonry"), ''un''-designate them ({{k|q}}, {{k|x}}. If you want to actually build them, then keep masonry on, and that would train both architecture and masonry, giving you more net experience. <br />
<br />
''(* Other dwarves with masonry may respond to build the designed supports, and faster than you'd expect, the little masonic ninjas. If this is a concern, lock your trainees in a room with the stone and let 'em design in peace.)''<br />
<br />
===The payoff===<br />
After the training starts taking hold, you will have a cadre of proficient building designers, proficient masons, skilled mechanics, and (optionally, see below) proficient siege operators or axe-dwarves. This can happen in as little as 3 years of training. You can (and should!) continue to train them until they are legendary in all of these, but that is very long term. In the shorter, 3 year term, you have a rock-solid foundation to react to any construction demand with speed, efficiency, and awesome quality.<br />
<br />
===Non-professionals===<br />
Remember that every dwarf in this crew will have masonry and mechanic labor designated (and possibly carpenter, etc) - for your primary mason's and mechanic's workshops, go into those workshop Profiles and only allow your primary, best-skilled dwarves to respond to work orders there, either by name or skill level, or both. If you forget to do this, you'll have your trainees jumping in and producing your furniture at lower [[quality]].<br />
<br />
===Role in your military===<br />
<br />
Especially if you opt for the wood-cutter approach and they are armed 24/7 with axes, a brief (or not so brief) [[sparring]] session will make them extremely dangerous if ambushed, and create a reserve force to support your full-time military. Just be careful to train no military skill near [[Soldier#Heroes_and_Champions|Great]] level, as this will remove them permanently from the civilian workforce! Not even close - remember that combat gives experience quickly. Somewhere between Proficient and Professional should be ample for reserves. This is true for axe or [[wrestler]], both of which can be handy for combatants.<br />
<br />
You can also, at your discretion, enable the [[siege operating]] labor to train the engineer corps in the use of artillery. This is mainly to give them an actual military use, and since cross-training them like this reduces the military's overall impact on your society. If you've got enough dwarves to make a separate artillery corps, go right ahead.<br />
<br />
{{Military FAQ}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Military| ]]<br />
[[Category:Fortress defense]]</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Cage&diff=5491540d:Cage2009-10-13T16:33:42Z<p>Zchris13: cages dur</p>
<hr />
<div>A '''cage''' is a holding device. Cages cannot be made of [[stone]], but can be made of [[wood]], [[metal]] and [[glass]] (terrariums and aquariums). Cages can hold an unlimited number of [[animals]] and captured [[vermin]] at once. Placing animals in a cage can reduce lag and [[traffic]] in your hallways. Both empty and occupied cages can - and will - be stored only in an animal [[stockpile]]. A cage takes 1 [[wood]] log if made by a [[carpenter]] at a [[carpenter's workshop]], 3 [[bars]] to build and uses the [[metalsmith]] [[profession]] if made of [[metal]] by a [[metalsmith]] at a [[forge]], or 1 sand bag (or rough [[rock crystal]]) if made of glass.<br />
<br />
The cage can be used in a few ways:<br />
<br />
:* A [[Traps#Cage_Trap|cage trap]] needs a cage as one of its components.<br />
:* As animal restraining device, where you simply plant it and allocate any animals (except [[pet]]s) you want in it. Females that are caged '''will not''' get pregnant, but animals can bear children when caged.<br />
:: This is also how you go about making a makeshift [[zoo]] for [[trapped]] animals.<br />
:: A glass cage (Terrarium) can be designated an [[aquarium]] for holding captured [[fish]]. (see [[captured live fish]])<br />
:* If the cage is made of metal, as a [[jail]], where you designate its location to be used for [[justice]], and a [[sheriff]] will detain any unruly dwarves.<br />
<br />
If you buy your first animals via the traders, you may be unsure how to extract them. To remove an animal from a cage, it first needs to be placed via the Build menu ({{K|b}}-{{K|j}}). Once it's placed, use {{K|q}} to examine it, {{K|a}} to assign, and then use {{K|Enter}} to toggle the animal(s) currently inside. A dwarf will come along and let the animal out of the cage, after which it can be butchered, moved, et cetera. If all you want to do is [[restraint|tie it up]], you can assign the creature using the restraint's menu.<br />
<br />
If you already have a cage placed somewhere, a faster way to release bought animals is to examine this cage and assign the animals to it. A dwarf will fetch the animals from the stockpile after which you can release them by again examining the cage.<br />
<br />
You can find a list of imaginative ideas to do with captured creatures [[captured creatures|here]].<br />
<br />
== How to disarm hostiles in cages ==<br />
You can find the items carried by caged [[goblin]]s, [[kobold]]s, etc. in the [[stocks]] menu and designate them for dumping. While it is easy to identify goblin/kobold clothes because they will always be described as "narrow"/"small", it is harder to make sure you have found the right weapons; you can verify that you are targeting the right items by using the zoom function; it should point you to the cage. Mark the items for dumping, and dwarves will come to the cage and take them.<br />
<br />
In the current version of the game, you can make this process quicker and easier via the mass designation tool. Use {{K|d}}-{{K|b}}-{{K|d}} to designate an area from which all items will be taken and dumped. Afterwards, hit {{K|k}}, go over each cage and press {{K|d}} for each of them. The end result will be that prisoners will be stripped naked but the cages themselves (and the creatures within) will remain in place, ready to be used for whatever purpose.<br />
<br />
==Stockpile==<br />
Cages are under the "Animal stockpile". To create a stockpile for empty cages, disable all the animals but permit empty cages {{key|u}}.<br />
<br />
== Arena ==<br />
If you link a [[lever]] to a (built) cage with trapped hostiles, you can release them by pulling the lever and let animals or your soldiers have fun with them. Make sure you have disarmed them first. The design of this "arena" is really up to you but a somewhat contained area or room is advisable. This is also a creative way to get rid of unwanted pets, if you can manage to trap them in the arena. Make sure your dwarves won't [[tantrum]] from unhappy thoughts! Dwarves attempting to move certain creatures between cages(goblin champion, colossus, skeletons, etc) will merely result in freeing the creature.<br />
<br />
One method is to have a room above a [[ramp]] (so the down-ramp is in the room). Build your occupied cages all about the room, station your soldiers near the ramp, and mark the ramp as a pit; then start chucking goblins into the pit. They get briefly stunned by the fall, so there's little risk so long as you don't try to pit too many at once (and be careful with the axelords, too). In the rare event that one of your peons cancels the pit-animal task, probably because they saw one of the recently-pitted goblins, there's plenty of soldiers at the ready to clean up the mess. [[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=19613.msg204684#msg204684 Idea adapted from a post by Derakon on the Bay 12 Forums]]<br />
<br />
==Moving and Releasing Caged Creatures==<br />
To Release an animal from a cage, simply select a built cage with {{k|q}}, use the assign command {{k|a}}, select the animal (animals assigned to the cage will have a green + next to them), and press {{k|Enter}}.<br />
For unknown reason(s), releasing a creature from a built cage (the only kind you can intentionally release them from) requires an accessible empty, unbuilt cage. The empty cage is not directly used, but seems to be tied up/unavailable for a short period of time during the process. Failing to provide an empty cage will result in nothing but constant job-cancellation spam until you provide an empty cage, re-assign the animal to the cage it currently occupies, or use the {{k|o}} menu to deactivate "Dwarves announce some job cancellations". When releasing multiple animals you may still receive spam if a dwarf attempts to release an animal while another is "using" the empty cage to release theirs.<br />
Moving untamable and/or untamed occupants utilizes the Animal Training labor, which allows you to assign stronger, more capable dwarves to the task, which (may) reduce the chance of escape. It is unconfirmed whether this is the case with untamed, tamable creatures.<br />
<br />
It is very important to note that you must only assign one new untamed occupant to a cage at a time, mainly when transferring untamable creatures from one cage to another. If two or more creatures from other cages are assigned to a cage, all will be marked for release simultaneously (they are no longer assigned to the cage they were in) and then marked to be placed in their new cage one by one. This seems to follow the list of creatures in order, so that the first creature assigned to your new cage will be transferred directly, while the others will be released, at which point your dwarves will still attempt to cage them. Tame creatures will cooperate; untamed will not, resulting in a spam of job cancellations, and possibly worse things: The released animals will behave normally, for example a goblin Macelord will begin killing dwarves, a Cave Swallowman will flee helplessly and interrupt your dwarves' work, and a knuckle worm will begin wandering aimlessly again. Tamable creatures lost in this way will still appear on your Animals screen and all relevant menus, and any creatures lost in this way will still be capable of being assigned to a cage, but until you recapture them the task cannot be completed. One report of a Dungeon Master being unafraid to recage a pair of free goblins indicates that there may be more exceptions to the behavior of once-caged creatures, and tasks related to them.<br />
<br />
Remember that some creatures are too powerful for your dwarves to safely lead around by the nose ([[Megabeast|megabeasts]]), and some others such as invaders may also escape while being transferred.<br />
<br />
== Cage Trading Caveats ==<br />
* [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html#Bug41 known bug 41] has reared its ugly head in that a cage marked for trading will almost always release the caged creature when it is picked up to be brought back to the depot. It is therefore, virtually impossible to trade caged animals as of this time. {{version|0.28.181.40d}} There is, however, one exception - if you have managed to acquire animals through, for example, an elven trading animal being knocked unconscious on a cage trap by invaders while carrying caged animals for trading, these will be put into a different cage when released and can be sold to merchants at will.<br />
* Elves are known to be trading crippled animals. In some games, the animals that the elves bring will always have a number of red injuries, including limbs, internal organs, and nerve damage. It has been speculated that this may happen due to environmental damage for creatures outside of their habitat, but it has been spotted in the forums in native species as well. {{version|0.28.181.40d}}<br />
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<br />
<br />
{{Buildings}}<br />
{{Military FAQ}}</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page/1&diff=54684Talk:Main Page/12009-10-09T16:24:43Z<p>Zchris13: Created page with 'HUH? What is this?... Oh. I see. Odd. I like your style, admin dude.--~~~~'</p>
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<div>HUH? What is this?... Oh. I see. Odd. I like your style, admin dude.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:24, 9 October 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Mining&diff=5468340d:Mining2009-10-09T16:22:13Z<p>Zchris13: It was wordy. Fixed.</p>
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<div>'''Mining''' is an essential part of building a fort in Dwarf Fortress. There are several reasons you might want to mine, such as [[exploratory mining|searching]] for various [[stone types]], or simply to create the basic tunnels and [[rooms]] in your fort. Mining a tile preserves both the floor and ceiling of that tile.<br />
<br />
== Making a dwarf a miner ==<br />
<br />
# Specify your dwarf to be a miner via {{K|v}}iew, {{K|p}}ref, {{K|l}}abor.<br />
# Select "Mining" using {{K|+}} or {{K|-}}, press {{K|enter}}.<br />
A [[miner]] also requires an available [[pick]]. A dwarf's [[Attribute#Agility|Agility]] affects the speed at which material is mined, but the quality or material of a pick has no effect on any aspect of mining - a [[quality|no-quality]] [[copper]] pick is the same as a [[quality|masterwork]] [[steel]] or [[adamantine]] one. (The same is not true for picks in [[weapon|combat]].)<br />
<br />
== Designating the area to be mined ==<br />
<br />
# Press {{K|d}}esignate to bring up the [[Designations]] menu.<br />
# Highlight '''Mine''' (it's highlighted by default) by pressing {{K|d}} again.<br />
# Move the cursor to the starting point, press {{K|enter}}. You should see a green flashing cross symbol indicating that it's in Selection Mode.<br />
# Move the cursor to another point to define the opposite corners of a rectangle, press {{K|enter}} again. A yellow area should now be highlighted, indicating the area to be mined.<br />
<br />
== Mined walls ==<br />
<br />
When a tile has been mined, the surrounding walls and floor will most likely be some kind of rough stone. To make these surfaces look less primitive, you can [[smooth]] and [[engrave]] them. [[Soil]]s, such as loam, clay, or sand, cannot be smoothed or engraved.<br />
<br />
== Stone hauling ==<br />
{{Main|Stone management}}<br />
Any useful material such as rock or [[ore]] is deposited on the ground excavated by the tile, and while loose stone will not impede movement, it can prop open [[door]]s, slow construction, and prevent open space from being used as a [[stockpile]]; therefore it is often desirable to haul stones away. You can assign stone hauling duties to specific dwarves just like you assigned them to be a miner. Make sure you have stockpiles where all the different [[stone]] types can be stored, too. Be careful which dwarves you assign to hauling if you have a massive dig going, or they might drop whatever other important stuff they were doing just to clear the paths. Typically miners will mine out stone far faster than haulers can properly clear it, particularly if the stockpile is a distance away. It is usually more sensible to designate stone to be [[dump]]ed, as a 1x1 garbage dump can hold an infinite number of items.<br />
<br />
There are alternatives to hauling. [[Mason]]s or [[Stone crafter]]s can build their respective [[workshops]] next to or on top of a large pile of stone for clearing, and then create items out of the stone to clear it. Masons can create [[furniture]] (which takes as much space as the original stone itself, but is at least useful); they can also create [[block]]s, which unlike stone and furniture can be stacked in [[bin]]s. Craftdwarves can create various smaller items which can also be stacked in bins. Assuming you have sufficient bins, place a stockpile right next to the worksite and your haulers will only have to take the items a very short distance to place them neatly in stacks. This is a huge timesaver on large projects. Just be careful about what you make. Stone blocks are useful, but a bin completely full of stone blocks is extremely heavy and hard to move around. [[Crafts]] of all sorts are usually very light, but certain job types make multiple products out of single stones, which will multiply your hauling problem. Stone crafts, as opposed to, for instance, [[mug]]s, will produce single, lightweight, somewhat valuable items that are easy to stack and move.<br />
<br />
Not hauling at all is also possible. You don't have to clear the rubble.<br />
<br />
While legendary miners mine very quickly, they have a near 100% chance of producing a stone upon mining. This can be viewed as a disadvantage where stone production is unwanted.<br />
<br />
== Digging in 3D ==<br />
<br />
[[Image:DF_Terraform.PNG|thumb|664px|<br />
<br />
In the 10 figures above, there are multiple "digging" scenarios shown in cross-section (aka elevation).<br />
In row 1, the first figure on the left (1a), is starting point for the 4 scenarios to the right (1b-1e).<br />
In row 2, the first figure on the left (2a), is starting point for the next 3 scenarios to the right (1b-1d). Figure 1d is then used as the starting point for 1e. <br />
<br />
Gray/black areas represent un-mined rock, cyan/black represents mined-out areas. Solid green represents existing floor "tiles", cyan represents mined-out floor tiles. Up stairs, down stairs, and ramps are red, blue, and mustard (yellow) respectively.<br />
<br />
In each of the 8 "digging" scenarios (1b-1e and 2b-e), the dwarf miner is shown as having completed the command(s) listed in that figure, moving from left to right (except in figure 2b). Each individual command is separated by a comma ",". (The "x2" notation indicates that the command is completed twice.) The dwarf has completed those commands in the order they are listed. Example 1, Second figure from right, on top: "Up/down stairs" is a single command. Example 2, Top right figure: "Down, up/down, up, mine x2" is five separate commands.<br />
]]<br />
<br />
The map is divided in ''layers''. Tiles on each layer are composed by whatever is on that tile, and the floor (or absence of floor) below it. A virgin rock tile is composed of a wall of rock and a floor of rock, for example. The ''ceiling'' of a tile is the same thing as the floor of the layer above that tile.<br />
<br />
The most basic dig action is {{K|d}} '''mine'''. When this option is selected you can mark areas to be hollowed out from the current layer. Mining a tile preserves both the floor and the ceiling of that tile. [[Channel]]ing, by contrast, removes the current floor and mines out the level below, while [[stairs]] and [[ramp]]s enable creatures to move between levels.<br />
<br />
Indiscriminate digging may cause [[Cave-in]]s.<br />
<br />
==Dig Priority==<br />
<br />
Dwarves mine in veins: after mining a tile, a miner will pick the "next" tile (a tile that is adjacent to the one just mined). If there are several possible "next" tiles, miners use an algorithm to determine which to mine next. This can be inefficient and break a large area into a large number of veins.<br />
<br />
To pick a vein (which is to say, a tile designated for some kind of dig job), dwarves seem to use a strategy similar to the one used for chopping [[tree]]s or selecting [[plants]] to gather. Generally, they seem to pick the deepest, northwestern-most vein. Notably, dwarves <i>do not</i> pick the closest vein.<br />
<br />
Dwarves have a priority over which side they will mine out from. Unless there is something in the way, miners will try to walk around unmined areas to reach these preferred sides, even if that path is very long. In order from most preferred to least preferred, dwarves prefer to stand on the tile to the: <blockquote>West > East > North > South > NW > SW > NE > SE</blockquote> of the tile being dug.<br />
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Because dwarves all use the same method to choose veins, dwarves tend to dig tiles near other dwarves. This makes having multiple dwarves dig together a bit problematic, as they will often get in each others' way.<br />
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Z-axis preferences untested, though it appears to me that dwarves prefer to dig out lower areas from a diagonally located area (i.e. not standing on the down stairs while digging out the up stairs directly below the down) {{verify}}.<br />
<br />
These details are accurate for version 38b; they are likely to change in later versions.<br />
<br />
In .38c the dwarves choose the lowest and northwestern of possible veins.<br />
<br />
== Map structure ==<br />
<br />
If you are still confused about tunnels, floors and ceilings created by the mine command then look at the following diagram:<br />
<br />
TOP VIEWS: SIDE VIEW:<br />
LAYER 3 FROM -> <br />
██████..- 5 ██████<br />
██████..- 4 ██████<br />
->██████..- 3 ██████__<br />
██████..- 2 ████ <br />
██████..- 1 █████████<br />
<br />
LAYER 2<br />
████████.<br />
████████.<br />
->████.....<br />
████████. <br />
████████.<br />
<br />
Key:<br />
█ Solid rock<br />
. Floor, visible from this layer<br />
- Empty space, with a floor below<br />
_ Ceiling (undermined section)<br />
<br />
The Top Views try to show how digging into the mountain (on Layer 2) leaves a ceiling (floor) on the layer above. This is represented on the Side View by a thin line. Try to think of the [[mountain]] as a series of boxes where with a thin lid ontop of each. At any place the box can be filled or empty, and the lid above be there or not there. For example, you can create a [[wall]] and build a [[floor]] on top of it. (Building a wall creates a floor on the next level by default, but this doesn't stop you building another floor construction on top of it!)<br />
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''Revised theory'': Imagine the 3D world as a grid of boxes. Each box can have one of three states; [[Wall]]ed, [[Open space]], [[Floor]].<br />
*Each cube can only be in one of these states.<br />
*If a tile is Walled it is inaccessible, but the box above can be walked on (if an Open space or a Floor).<br />
*If it is [[Open space]], then it has no Floor and may be accessible.<br />
*If a Floor is present, then the box is accessible.<br />
*Additionally, floor constructions can be built in an Open space or a Floor box provided there is access from the side<br />
--[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] (Please discuss)<br />
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== Caveats ==<br />
<br />
"''They eat your caves!''"<br />
<br />
* Mining into damp walls usually leads [[flood]]ing. Be especially careful near large [[river]]s and [[aquifer]]s. The game will warn you before this actually occurs, unless it happens to be a dry season when water has temporarily dried up. Note that damp walls still occur below rivers and aquifers but will not flood unless the above floor is removed (digging [[ramp|ramps]], etc).<br />
* Mining into warm walls usually leads to [[magma]] flooding. The game will warn you before this occurs. Like damp walls, mining warm walls will not flood magma if you are 1 z-level below the magma unless the floor above is also removed.<br />
* Building [[channel]]s will not only remove the floors, ramps or walls on the current level, but also mine out the walls on the z-level below. Digging a channel will ALWAYS remove a wall, if there is a wall to remove.<br />
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== See also ==<br />
* [[Map tile]]s &ndash; Different types of walled, floor and open spaces<br />
* [[Exploratory mining]] &ndash; Mining focused on finding valuable [[stone]]<br />
* [[Stone]] &ndash; A list of different types of stones and ores left behind from mining.<br><br />
* [[Soil]] &ndash; A list of soil types.<br />
===Other digging actions===<br />
* [[Ramp]]<br />
* [[Stairs]]<br />
* [[Channel]]<br />
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[[Category:Guides]]</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page/archive2&diff=54069Talk:Main Page/archive22009-10-07T17:02:33Z<p>Zchris13: /* Incoming New Version */ new section</p>
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<div>{{Archive|<br />
# [[Talk:Main Page/archive1|Archive 1]]<br />
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== World Painter Page ==<br />
The wiki has needed a page on the [[World Painter]] for a while, so I've started one. The information in there is decent, but I'm relatively new to wiki editing, so the formatting probably isn't. If someone wouldn't mind cleaning it up a bit for me I'd really appreciate it. --[[User:Timmeh|Timmeh]] 01:15, 3 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Well I don't know if someone helped you already, but it looks fine to me. --[[User:frandude|frandude]]<br />
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== French language wiki ==<br />
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Can we have interlanguage links with the [http://www.dwarffortress.fr/wiki/ French wiki]? -[[User:Alan Trick|Alan Trick]] 17:48, 14 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Add a CptnDuck page? ==<br />
<br />
Captain Duck is a DF video tutorial maker, which an impressive collection of 40 videos on youtube (and a few extra videos of sieges and arenas and whatnot), and explains how to do most everything, from magma forges to Dwarven justice. He adds humor to it and he's the reason a lot of people understand the game...I think we should give him a page. <small>&ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Blackdoggie998|Blackdoggie998]]</small><br />
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:As it is insanely easy for anyone to sign up for editing priviledges on this site (I managed to, after all), I see no need to make one for him when he could make one for himself. However, if you wish to add user:CptnDuck, or invite him to make one himself, feel free. He can link to all of his tutorials from his user page. They even be searchable through that lovely little box to the(my) left. (Who knows where it is on your skin.) -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.<br />
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:P.S. Does it seem odd to you to have it say "unsigned comment by [username]"? Or is that just me? -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, just a little after the previous one.<br />
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:We don't need a userpage for him, but a page with the assembled listing of all his (and others of equal quality) video tutorials wouldn't be a bad idea at all. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Articles on Olivine and other generic stones ==<br />
<br />
There is a current discussion as to whether or not [[Olivine]] (and perhaps some few other stones) are duly covered on the current [[stone]] page, or are truly worth having their own article/page. This relates to a larger question of how this wiki is organized, and "What deserves a page" in a general sense. Any interested are encouraged to chime in, if only with a "me too" post pro or con. See [[Talk:Olivine]] for an idea of the issue. I'd like to have the debate move from the specific Olivine page to here since this is a more general issue that affects many potential pages. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 21:29, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:I'm not really sure which way to go on this one. A lot of otherwise useless stones would need their own articles if the guidelines were expanded... and yet, there's a good amount of useful information that's not on the main pages, that would further clutter them if it were added; And permitting more individual pages would solve both those problems. I guess this ends up being a vote both ways, with provisions on each. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:54, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:My vote is, if someone can make it amusing, then sure. If someone is of the bent to enjoy making such a page, then again, sure... otherwise, leave it at the bottom of the pile of "things that someday we might get around to if we feel like it" and don't stress. The relevant data is covered (or will be when someone notices it's not), and everything else is gravy. Beside, what would you rather do, play the game, or figure out how to make a whole page of jokes about how gneiss nice is.... (or did I get that backwards?)... ? --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.<br />
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::All relevant information is covered, yes. But not necessarily on a relevant page. Before the Olivine page was made you couldn't learn that olivine may contain native platinum from any page related to olivine or stone in general. <br />
::Another example is kaolinite. You can look it up in the table of Other Stone to see it can be found in sedimentary rock. But in order to see that it may itself contain alunite and marcasite you have to go through the entire table (or use the browser search function). Now, in order to see if it may contain anything else, you have to notice the note at the top of the page (just above the table of contents) that points to Metal Ore and Gem, whith another two tables you have to search through. (Kaolinite may contain turquoise). --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 21:44, 20 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:It's not just about "which stones" - it's a larger question of how the wiki is organized and presented. Should each separate and distinct item get its own page, like the current one- or two-line articles on [[vial]]s, [[instrument]]s or [[Restraint|chain]]s, (just as random parallel examples of some [[finished goods]] that have their very own, very short, very dull, and predictably repetitive articles.) Surely the [[Masons guild]] and [[miners guild]] don't deserve or need separate articles. Do we need a separate and largely redundant article for every trap weapon? What about the cookie-cutter articles on ''every'' individual animal? The GCS deserves its own, and many others, but one on each separate type of shark and hunting cat? There is no actual article there, only a template.<br />
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:Quivers and bolts are sub-sections of the [[crossbow]] article, and I think that's a ''great'' call. Olivine, talc and kaolinite are merely similar examples, distinct enough to warrant special treatment, but on the borderline of being so small to each only represent a stub. Ultimately, I don't think a functional formal definition would be easily achieved - rather guidelines and a fuzzy target, combining related info into groups with optimal size limitations (both lower end and upper end). Perhaps a template should not be forced on every lesser example, but they could be grouped into a table on their own article, "other stones of note" or "sharks" or "finished goods" or whatever.<br />
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:In many ways, our only current guidelines are "what has been done so far" - and that varies widely and wildly. Too often, pages are cobbled onto related ones, or split off just because its a new topic, if a brutally short one. Myself, I'd like to see most related articles of less than 4 lines or so get grouped into larger, more universally informative articles, and anything larger than maybe 5 full sub-sections be considered for splitting up. If an item stands out from the rest, it should stand out somewhere, in an article - but that doesn't mean it has to have its very own, or invite every similar item to do so as well.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 03:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:: Please check out the (no longer) current [[Chalk]] page and tell me what you think. ... which is to say, it doesn't /have/ to be a stub, does it? It can be rich and detailed and sadly unamusing. It would please me to continue to do all stones in this manner, or another manner of your choosing.... Thus negating fussing over "this one was done this way, that one was done that way" arguments. I'll get to them all, in the order they appear on the [[Stones]] page. ... assuming you guys are ok with that. --[[User:Teres Draconis]] 08:28, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:: P.S. Who's the outpost manager of this place, anyways? I'd like to know to whom I should be pandering. --jaz<br />
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::: I think 1) you should take time to read, if not learn the wiki format guidelines, 2) you should sign with your REAL user name, and stop using a pseudonym, and 3) you should not break someone else's post with yours in between their paragraphs. As to the chalk page, I think it's over-enthusiastic and pays no attention to previous article style or formatting precedent - which may be a good thing or a bad thing, depending. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::: 1) You're right, I'm sorry. <br />
::::2) We've discussed user names on [[User_Talk:Teres_Draconis#Naming Conventions|my talks page]]. (Also, <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> still puts "jaz"... why bother with the link when it's just a P.S.?) <br />
::::3) I'm sorry. I was (apparently) trained wrong, and that was a /long/ time ago. I was taught (20 years ago) that when responding, to do so in-line, so that people can tell what the response is actually relating to. (Like an actual conversation, except with a time warp. You say something, I respond, someone else adds, we all move on to the next topic.) It supposedly adds clarity. The style and curtesy rules of such things has changed. I can see I'll need to update myself. Thank you for pointing that out. =)<br />
::::4) I was hasty. I had to have meatspace people explain to me why, as wiki-''writers'', you would not want so much detail on a page. Especially when, with every new game release, any given page on the wiki might need an over haul. I was only looking at it from the end-user perspective of "If I'm looking for information, I don't want a page that just tells me to go look at the three pages I've already looked at. I want a page that reduces the noise of the irrelevant, and distills to just that specific (sub-)topic." I /don't/ see the point of six pages that are identacle except for title, and all only three lines long. If it's got it's own page, it should have it's own page. If it just links back to the three pages that linked to it, and they all link to each other already, what's the point? If the only thing Chalk has going for it is that it's flux, why not just make a note on the [[Stone]] page reading, "These three rocks can be used as flux" and link to the flux page from there? Why should chalk have it's own page, if it's not going to be richly detailed and, you know, informative? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::::The templates are there because they are pretty, detailed, and condensed ways to display some key information. Rather than expanding existing information so that it takes up more space, it's more productive to add things that you think are lacking. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:15, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::: I changed the other [[Stones]] table to allow for interesting minerals that are in other[[Stones]] to be posted.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:17, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What would actually be helpful is a [[Geology]] primer, indicating how layers and inclusions are placed, where, and what the implications of "You have struck XXX" are. I know, now, that if it's olivine, I have a chance of finding veins of native platinum. One good page explaining what all of the geological processes mean would be a lot more useful then all of the various descriptions of exploratory mining. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 22:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::That sounds like a great idea.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:46, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::I agree! But I have no idea how to write it. Most of what I know about geology I learned from looking at the raws. Everything else is "OMG, is that a ''rock''?! I've heard of those!" - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::"More useful" to some, but I agree it would be a great addition. Also, the more I think about it, the more I like what MrDG did with the table in Other Stone - tables could condense any and all small, individual articles into single pages w/ (sortable?) tables where all these various similar objects could be compared/contrasted at a glance. Templates are perfect when there is a lot of various info, but if the different topics (semi-generic stones, animals, finished goods) all differ only in one or two details, and there is just not that many variables to begin with, a Table would be (imo) preferable. ''(And imo that table now covers such stones as Olivine well, to get back to the original example that sparked this discussion.)''<br />
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::As an additional example of how current stub-articles could be combined into a simple table, I've made this page - [[Example - some fish]] - which could be a model for such. (A page/table with all the "Sea-creatures" would be more likely approp, but this was faster for now.) It would replace every stub-article on related "generic" items, but any truly noteworthy items would still have their own full articles for expanded information and commentary (here, "carp"). It still has 100% of the prev information, but also allows immediate comparison and contrast, and, if sortable, allows a User to more easily compare relations between similar aspects (like "biome", in this example.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::: Is it possible to put the expandable version of the raw ("game object data (show)" seen at the bottom of the [[carp]] page) inside the table, instead of the whole thing? Or does the one preclude the other? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::Actually, if someone finds it easy to extract that information from the .RAWs, I would find that an improvement on what [[Creatures]] currently has. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 17:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::::If someone here knows PHP they may be able to write a new wiki hook that pulls information from raw entries. That would make many things much easier. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::Which information do you want extracted? I can probably do it for you, but you may have heard, I'm in the doghouse for not paying attention to style and formating rules. =/ Show me what there is, and one example of what you want, and I can probably do it for you with a minimum of stupid questions. ... ''Probably.'' - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::::@ jaz, Dec - Did either of you look at this sample table? [[Example - some fish]] Does that cover what you were envisioning? It's just a rough idea - but it could work the same way that the table on the [[stone]] page currently does, to cover all the generic, almost-identical objects. Same w/ finished goods, weapon traps, probably many other sim categories of like items.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
I've read this sort of. My view is, wikis add value to the game far more for noobs than they do to legends who have been around since when the z-axis was just an idea. With this in mind, I reckon if everything with a name in the game had an article that would be *A Good Thing* (tm). Just my own opinion, feel free to disagree. Ideally, articles for things like stones should contain a template constructed from the raws, with prose/dialogue manually added.<br />
Even things like [[screw pump]] could have a template driven section, advising what the components are / who makes it etc. Maybe <nowiki>{{building|Building Name|Component 1:Component 1 name|Component X| component X name|Constructed by|trade}}</nowiki> or similar.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 08:45, 30 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I agree, probably, although that sounds like a lot of work. I think the stone templates and articles could do with a bit of a cleanup and more in-game information. I mostly use the articles to see if there's anything notable about a particular stone and then check out the wikipedia page. Some of the wikipedia links are broken or indirect now because disambiguity pages have been added since. Also, the wikipedia links are right at the bottom of very long boxes listing ores and gems and the like - I suggest adding drop down boxes to the templates that contain all that information but which are minimized by default. Or changing the template so that the wikipedia link wraps around the stone name at the top. --[[User:Harmonica|Harmonica]] 01:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Way late to this party, apologies. Tables are no good (to me) if they aren't sortable. The World Ends With You (a Nintendo DS game) Wikia portal/wiki thing has an ''awesome'' method for adding sortable tables. Some gadget called [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki Semantic MediaWiki] that hooks into the Wiki to automatically pull data out as you request it, then display it in easy-to-read and use sortable tables. The TWEWY Wikia has [http://twewy.wikia.com/wiki/The_World_Ends_With_You:Semantic_MediaWiki a page on it] for their editors, giving a few examples of how powerful it is. Their use of the tool is to easily pull information from a table of 304 items, each containing 30 attributes, to generate lists comparing and compiling various items. Hugely powerful, extremely flexible.<br />
<br />
This type of tool would work wonderfully with a PHP RAW parser, or even simple dumps of the RAWs to the Wiki. Think of how easy it would be to update the entire Wiki across the board when new versions come out. New critters? Changes to existing critters? Update the information in one spot and it trickles down through the entire Wiki! That's in addition, of course, to being able to, say, generate tables listing how many bones each creature drops when killed, then sort to see which one drops the most. Pretty sweet stuff.<br />
<br />
With some sort of system in place for wading through all the data on the wiki, one wouldn't have to worry about having too much information, right? -- [[User:Blank|Blank]] 04:44, 3 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
Particularly for stone, I think that it would be a good idea to describe each individual stone relative to other, similar stones. Let's use [[sandstone]] as an example. Suppose that I read (either in its own article, or in a table) something along the lines of "Sandstone is a [[sedimentary]] layer. Unlike most sedimentary layers, it may contain [[aquifers]] or veins of [[native copper]]." If I already know what a sedimentary layer is (and how it differs from other types of layers), this information will be much easier to process and much more useful than a full list of everything that appears in sandstone. If I have no idea what a sedimentary layer is, this will tell me that there are several sedimentary layers and that they all have many things in common, which is again more useful than a list of everything that appears in sandstone. --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 08:56, 2 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:That's not the way this (any?) wiki is set up. The idea is that a lesser concept (here, "sandstone") need not include redundant info from a larger, parent concept (here, "sedimentary layer"). If you don't know what a sed'y layer is (or an aquifer or a vein or whatever) you click that link. If, then, you don't know what a "layer" is, you click that link. Sounds good at first, but if every lesser article included an explanation, even a quick synopsis, of the info for all relevant articles on broader, umbrella concepts, the articles, and this wiki as a whole, would explode beyond usefulness. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for making my point for me. If you look at the current sandstone article, it lists everything contained in sandstone. Looking at just the ores and non-generic stones, we have: Native copper, Hematite, Limonite, Magnetite, Native platinum, Tetrahedrite, Bituminous coal, Lignite, Bauxite. All of these except for native copper appear in every sedimentary layer. That's not even counting all of the generic stone (especially gypsum with its five other types of generic stone contained in it) and (mostly low-value) gems. 95% of the text in this article is redundant, and could easily be summarized by "This layer is exactly like every other sedimentary layer except for these two differences". --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 09:06, 6 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Ah - ''that's'' your point. (When you said "describe", I thought you were advocating a narrative commentary on and verbal expansion of the info included in the sidebar.) When I was talking about not having redundant info, I was talking text - which is quite terse in this case, exactly because of the point you make. Those sidebars were designed to encapsulate the key info, an "at a glance" sort of thing, to avoid exactly what you're talking about in narrative form. Are the sidebars redundant? Often, yes. But they are the style this wiki has adopted for ''all'' stone. So you're talking not just about changing sed'y layers, but the style approach to all stone, since they would not then be consistent across the board. (Not how I would have personally designed the layout, but it's there and it works, and well. Any stone, same layout, same info in the same place, bam got it.) And when discussing presentation and usability issues, any article has to be taken both individually and in the context of others "like" it - here, any "stone" article is the same layout, the same info at a glance, which (for now) trumps whatever redundancies exist. Perhaps a quick line such as you're stating would go well, since there is, indeed, very little unique to say about any one sub-type of sedimentary layer, and that is info in and of itself. (Take a look at any [[igneous extrusive]] except obsidian for something similar.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Not a Roguelike ==<br />
<br />
Dwarf Fortress only resembles a Roguelike in the sense that everything kills you. ASCII graphics haven't connoted Rogue-resemblance since Diablo came out with modern 3D graphics and was still considered a Roguelike.<br />
[[User:LogicalDash|LogicalDash]] 22:08, 5 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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I agree with you for Fortress mode, but adventurer mode is rogue like.--[[User:Mjo625|Mjo625]] 22:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:DF is rogue-like like.<font face="FixedSys" color="#00FFFF">[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]]</font>[[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 08:59, 2 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Link to Add Quotes ==<br />
<br />
To get help on how to add quotes to the main page, consult [[Talk:Main Page/Quote|this]] link.<br />
<br />
== Incoming New Version ==<br />
<br />
Guys. We might as well prepare for the new version that will be coming by the end of the year (maybe). What will need to change? Weapons and armor, the underground stuff... I don't know all of it. But it's extensive. Get ready.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Wizard&diff=5406840d Talk:Wizard2009-10-07T16:52:45Z<p>Zchris13: </p>
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<div>I have a dwarf who likes wizards for their wonderful beards. Personally I like them for their pointy hats. --[[User:Diabl0658]]<br />
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We're off to see the wizard, the wonderful wizard of Oz. --[[User:AlexFili]]<br />
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One of my dwarves just made a image of a wizard skull in horse leather. They are not real, and yet they can die... [[User:Rickola]]<br />
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:I have to wonder just what makes a wizard skull any different from, uh... dwarf or human skulls, whichever race they're of. I don't suppose they're an entirely different race. Maybe their bones are surrounded by a perpetual eldritch nimbus. [[User:Pariah|Pariah]] 02:12, 4 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::As far as the game is conserned, Wizards are an entirely different race.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:52, 7 October 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Bucket&diff=5009140d Talk:Bucket2009-07-30T19:04:10Z<p>Zchris13: </p>
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<div> "when emptied on the floor they create a pile of "stagnant water [10]" "<br />
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so when does this happen? cos it is happening every now and then in my fort and i would like to know why --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 17:21, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I beleive this happens whenever they cancel their job while hauling it, and drop it on the floor.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 19:04, 30 July 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Water_pressure&diff=3373040d:Water pressure2009-07-04T01:51:41Z<p>Zchris13: inaccuracies</p>
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<div>The only pressure that Dwarf Fortress attempts to replicate is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_statics#Pressure_in_fluids_at_rest hydrostatic '''water pressure'''].<br />
<br />
In layman's terms, if you have a tall body of water (such as a [[lake]] or a tower you have pumped full of water) then the water at the lowest [[z-level]] is being 'squeezed' by the weight of the water above it. If it is released it will move with remarkable speed and can flow up [[stair]]s, [[ramp]]s, and over [[channel]]s. It will continue flowing until it runs out of space or it fills to a [[z-level]] one level lower than the source.<br />
<br />
As another model, think of a pipe shaped like a "J". If you pour water in the taller end of the pipe, it will come "up" out of the lower end until the water levels on both sides are equal. Until all the water in the tall part is at the same level as the lower part, water will continue to come out that lower end. This is Dwarf Fortress "water pressure".<br />
<br />
Dwarf Fortress does not model surface friction nor air pressure, so the water will not slow in transit nor will 'trapped air bubbles' form. Magma does not have pressure (it cannot flow up, and doesn't appear to move at greater speeds).<br />
<br />
[[Pump]]s do not create pressure. They simply pull water from one level below on end and dump it out at the other. There is no "force" behind a pump. Water pumped to a high level will, as normal, have pressure compared to a lower level.<br />
<br />
== Dangers ==<br />
It is easy to flood your fortress accidentally by not accounting for water pressure. For example:<br />
* It is safe to dig out a [[cistern]] one level below a murky pool, and to channel above a few tiles of the [[cistern]] so that your dwarves can get water from it without having to go outside. <br />
* It is safe to refill a murky pool with water from a pump or brook/river/etc on the same level.<br />
* It is not safe to do both to the same pool! The water from the pump/brook/river/whatever will fill the pool to 7/7, and will then pressurize the water in the [[cistern]], which will then flow up out of your channels and flood your fort.<br />
<br />
===Waterfalls===<br />
Waterfalls are of special concern. If you tap or even channel a water source that is ''downstream'' from a waterfall, the pressure will be equal to the level at the ''top'' of the waterfall. It is absolutely critical to reduce the pressure in such a system if you do not wish flooding, the easiest way being diverting the water diagonally - although if used solely for a complex drowning trap or other purpose, flooding may be desirable.<br />
<br />
== Mitigating dangers ==<br />
=====Diagonal Flow=====<br />
When water flows through two tiles that are diagonally adjacent, it loses all pressure from higher levels. <br />
<br />
'''Top View'''<br /> <br />
######<br />
#########<font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font><font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font><font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font><font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font>########<br />
<font color="blue">'''Direction->'''</font> <font color="blue">≈</font><font color="blue">≈</font><font color="blue">≈</font><font color="blue">≈</font>#<font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font><font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font><font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font><font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font><font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font><font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font> <font color="#2FB6FF">-></font><br />
<font color="blue">''' of ->''' </font><font color="blue">≈</font><font color="blue">≈</font><font color="blue">≈</font><font color="blue">≈</font><font color="blue">≈</font>#<font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font><font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font><font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font><font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font><font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font> <font color="#2FB6FF">-></font><br />
<font color="blue">''' Flow ->'''</font> <font color="blue">≈</font><font color="blue">≈</font><font color="blue">≈</font><font color="blue">≈</font><font color="blue">≈</font><font color="blue">≈</font>#<font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font><font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font><font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font><font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font> <font color="#2FB6FF">-></font><br />
###########<font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font>#########<br />
###<br /><br />
# = wall, constructed or undug<br />
<font color="blue">≈</font> = pressurized water<br />
<font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font> = neutral/normal water pressure<br />
<br />
This does not work on a vertical basis - water only travels vertically to a different z-level, never diagonally. <br />
<br />
If you wish to maintain the rate of flow after de-pressurizing, it's recommended that you have more diagonals than water tiles - that is, if the source is 3-tiles wide, you may wish 4 or more diagonal passages.<br />
<br />
=====Hatches=====<br />
[[Hatch]]es can be placed over [[channel]]s, [[stair]]s, [[ramp]]s etc to prevent [[water]] moving vertically but still allow the tile to be used, even as a water source (and possibly still for fishing too).<br />
<br />
=====Pumps=====<br />
When water is passed through [[pump]]s, the pressure is re-set to that of the exit tile. Of course, there is a downside - you still have to run the pumps and due to the source water's pressure the pump must be [[power]]ed instead of [[pump operator|run by a dwarf]] (the tile the dwarf needs to stand on is filled by water). Furthermore the power cannot be transmitted by a [[gear]] placed ''next'' to the pump, because the water will simply flow down the passage the gear comes from! <br />
<br />
Your vertical [[axle]]s or gear assemblies need to be placed above the unwalkable tile of the pump, and there must not be a channel over the walkable pump tile. (Water can only flow straight upward, not up and to the side at the same time.) Multiple adjacent pumps will also [[Power#Power transfer|transfer power]] between themselves automatically. <br />
<br />
Side view<br />
<br />
Power Water Key<br />
↓ ↓↓↓↓↓ # = Normal wall<br />
######<font color="brown">║</font>###<font color="blue">#</font><font color="blue"><b>≈≈≈≈≈</b></font> <font color="blue">#</font> = Wall that pressurised water would flow into if it were to be dug out<br />
######<font color="brown">║</font>###<font color="blue">##</font><font color="blue"><b>≈≈≈≈</b></font> <font color="#2FB6FF">≈</font> = Regular water<br />
_ ___#<font color="brown">║</font><font color="blue">#######</font><font color="blue"><b>≈≈</b></font> <font color="blue"><b>≈</b></font> = Pressurised water<br />
#<font color="#2FB6FF">≈≈≈≈≈</font><font color="green"><b>%%</b></font><font color="blue"><b>≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈</b></font> <font color="green"><b>%%</b></font> = Pump<br />
######<font color="blue">##</font><font color="blue"><b>≈</b></font><font color="blue">#######</font> <font color="brown">║</font> = Axle<br />
#######<font color="blue">###</font>###### _ = Floor<br />
<br />
== Theory ==<br />
<br />
What follows here are several rules which specify how water pressure affects water's behavior. These were written to fit experimentally observed behavior as best as possible. (There used to be two models here, but the second one couldn't be reconciled with the observed results of the water-overpressure-in-river experiment, though the first also had to be extensively rewritten. The chief problem with the second one was that it was essentially "water pressure in a 7/7 water tile is determined by the difference in z-level between it and the highest 7/7 water tile it's connected to," and that pressure wasn't something to be transmitted between tiles. This would mean an entire river overpressurized should overflow along the entire river length simultaneously. It didn't.)<br />
<br />
===Current best pressure model===<br />
<br />
Note: this may not be correct. See [http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3549/interview_the_making_of_dwarf_.php?page=9] and [http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3549/interview_the_making_of_dwarf_.php?page=10] for info from Toady.<br />
<br />
# Water normally has 0 pressure.<br />
# If a water source (including pumps) attempts to create water in its output tile but cannot due to it being full already, it will pressurize the output tile (it remains pressure 0, but this allows it to pressurize the tile below it and give it pressure 1).<br />
# Water sources attempt to generate water in tiles adjacent to pressurized tiles. They will not generate water in tiles above pressurized tiles unless the water source has '''nowhere''' else to generate '''any''' water, and they will never generate water above the water source's z-level.<br />
# The amount of water generated per tick does NOT appear to increase as the radius of the water blob increases. Water being generated on two z-levels at once has been observed to generate faster on the lower level, but it is unclear if this actually means that lower levels have more water generated, or if some other factor was at work.<br />
# For water sources, seemingly random valid pressurized tiles are chosen to generate water at each tick. However, tiles closer to the source are preferred (This may or may not be due to how pressurization spreads?).<br />
# The pressurization state spreads from a tile to adjacent, above, or below tiles only if both are 7/7, and only if the pressurized tile has no tiles adjacent, above, or below itself which it could generate water in.<br />
# Pressure which is transmitted downward is increased by 1. 7/7 water which falls and remains 7/7 also increases in pressure {{verify}}.<br />
# Pressure which is transmitted upward is decreased by 1.<br />
# Tiles with 0 pressure can be considered 'pressurized' for the purpose of generating water (they have no speed bonus).<br />
# Pumps do not transmit pressure. Water which comes out of pumps has 0 pressure. (Note that you must ensure that output water does not contact input water, or pressure WILL be transmitted through the connection)<br />
# Water tiles which drop below 7/7 density become 0 pressure and unpressurized.<br />
# Pressure makes water moves faster, with each level of pressure seemingly providing greater speed.<br />
# Falling water which falls onto 7/7 water acts as a 'source' (but is destroyed when its water is re-created elsewhere).<br />
<br />
===Anomalies===<br />
* If you drop a fixed amount of water several levels down a shaft into another room, you can end up with more water than you started with. {{version|0.27.169.33g}}<br />
* Pumps can turn into seemingly infinite water generators (though they can be stopped by blocking their input with a hatch, or by disconnecting their power).{{version|0.27.169.33g}} The above model currently appears to match this behavior if pumps are considered water sources. Perhaps pumps are not removing water from their input if they are unable to put water in the output, but they still generate water elsewhere as a source? {{verify}}<br />
* A "u-bend bug" has been reported, which generates infinite amounts of water due to the source of the pressure not being properly drained. {{version|0.27.176.38a}}<br />
*When dealing with a [[Waterfall]], water keeps the pressure of the highest z-level, no matter the height of the waterfall. This means if a channel is dug after the waterfall, it will have the pressure as if there was water above it to the original z-level of the water.<br />
<br />
===Movies of pressure experiments===<br />
* [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-284-firstwaterpressureexperimentreproduced] - Showing that pressure is not transmitted through non-7/7 tiles.<br />
* [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-283-grandwaterpressureexperiment] - Showing that pumps output 0-pressure water even from a high-pressure source, that water will not flow up and to the side at the same time (has to flow straight up), and a few other things<br />
* [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-285-waterpressureinriverexperiment] - Pump turned into infinite water generator, but still provided useful information on how overpressure causes upward flooding.<br />
* [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-288-waterpressureexperiment4] - Uses three pumps connected to different tunnel layouts to test a few of these rules: One tunnel has three accessible z-levels. The second tunnel has one accessible z level and periodic shafts up. The third has only one accessible z level with no shafts. The bottom level of all three filled first, and the shafts did not fill until the bottom was filled. The second level of the three-high tunnel did not begin filling until the first was full. They did not all fill the bottom at once, but this is believed to be due to the order in which their pumps are placed on the river.<br />
<br />
===Possible future experiments===<br />
* Have a pump pumping water into a 3-wide tunnel with a 1-wide tunnel below it. Have another pump pumping water into a 1-wide tunnel with a 3-wide tunnel below it. Observe whether the bottom tunnel's water spreads faster in both cases or just in the smaller tunnel.<br />
* From a pump, fill a cistern which is several levels lower. Shut off the pump and the higher level tiles with hatches once the whole thing is 7/7. Open other hatches above the cistern, combine water with unpressurized water, and see what happens.<br />
<br />
{{Water FAQ}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Physics]]</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Mikemayday&diff=49872User talk:Mikemayday2009-06-30T17:21:16Z<p>Zchris13: </p>
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<div>Your floor tiles gave me a great idea!! Thanks! --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:P.S. I think it was your floor.</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Mikemayday&diff=49871User talk:Mikemayday2009-06-30T16:43:46Z<p>Zchris13: blargh homonyms</p>
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<div>Your floor tiles gave me a great idea!! Thanks! --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Mikemayday&diff=49870User talk:Mikemayday2009-06-30T16:43:21Z<p>Zchris13: Created page with 'You're floor tiles gave me a great idea!! Thanks! --~~~~'</p>
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<div>You're floor tiles gave me a great idea!! Thanks! --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Children&diff=2015840d:Children2009-06-30T16:42:30Z<p>Zchris13: all child->dwarf are peasants until skill up</p>
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<div>__NOTOC__<br />
[[Dwarves]] are considered '''children''' for their first twelve years. They learn how to become a [[dwarf]] through living in and participating in dwarven society with no formal schools, apprenticeships or other formal learning; even parenting seems quite minimal.<br />
<br />
In fortress mode, some migrant dwarves are married and may bring children. Children who immigrate to your fortress might be any age from 2 to 12, and there is no way to determine the age of a child.<br />
<br />
"Resident" dwarves may also give birth to children. This can be stopped or reduced by editing the init file. Dwarves even can have miscarriages, which causes an unhappy thought for the mother but not for the father.<br />
<br />
Some fortresses seem to have a higher fertility rate than others.<br />
<br />
==Babies==<br />
<br />
When children are born, they are looked after by their parents, who will continue working, leaving the baby in the [[workshop]] if they go to get materials. It is thought that babies sharing a tile with their parents always lie down, not the parent. Babies do not have to be born in [[bed]]s, but are born wherever the mother happens to be; the birth will interrupt the mother's current action. If the mother is sleeping, however, the birth will not wake her. If the mother dies the baby will almost always head to the nearest ledge and throw itself off of it, they will continue to do this until they either die or they grow to be a child. Orphans are never adopted by other dwarves.<br />
<br />
==Labor==<br />
Children may not be assigned any labors, but perform some activities without any intervention:<br />
<br />
* socialising, through arranging [[party|parties]] in [[meeting hall]]s;<br />
* [[harvest|harvesting]] [[crops]], if the 'All dwarves harvest' order is on;<br />
* removing [[construction]]s (such as [[wall]]s, [[floor]]s, [[ramp]]s);<br />
* pulling [[lever]]s;<br />
* filling designated ponds;<br />
* [[hauling]] items to the [[trade depot]];<br />
* eating, drinking, and sleeping as necessary.<br />
<br />
Children may not be assigned to the [[noble|nobility]], although babies seem to be able to.<br />
<br />
==Diet==<br />
Children seem to eat and drink with similar preferences to adult dwarves, including a preference for [[alcohol]] over plain [[water]]. <br />
<br />
==Kidnapping==<br />
Children are also the target of [[goblin|goblin snatchers]], who will sneak into your fortress and try to kidnap young dwarves by stuffing one in a sack and hightailing it out of there. Like stolen objects, children who are removed from the map are lost forever, for now. [[Toady]] has hinted that slaves can be freed in future version.<br />
<br />
==Moods==<br />
[[Strange mood]]s affect children in the same way as adults. [[Experience]] gained through a strange mood will lead to the dwarf having legendary skill in either [[woodcrafting]], [[bone carving]] or [[stonecrafting]], depending on the artifact made.<br />
<br />
==Adulthood==<br />
At the age of twelve, children become adult [[dwarf|dwarves]]. While most then become unskilled peasants, those who have successfully completed a strange mood other than possession will become legendary [[craftsdwarf|Craftsdwarves]]; those who help in harvesting plants throughout childhood may have built up sufficient experience points in the [[grower]] skill to become [[Planter]]s, although it will list them as peasants until they skill up.<br />
<br />
==Dwarven parenthood==<br />
<br />
As an oversight in programming, children's parents can become so preoccupied with finding their children that they can die of thirst. This is aimed to be fixed at a later update.<br />
<br />
==Military Children==<br />
<br />
Although possibly not a bug, children with military mothers will be carried joyfully into battle and usually slaughtered wholesale. Deactivating the mother's military commission may be the best idea to keep the children alive and the parents from throwing [[tantrum]]s when a stray [[bolt]] hits the child. However, If the dwarven parent in question can be kept happy, Dwarven babies make ''excellent'' combat armour.<br />
''<br />
[[Category:Dwarves]]</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Anvil&diff=209940d:Anvil2009-06-07T15:14:33Z<p>Zchris13: which skill</p>
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<div>Anvils are required to build [[forge]]s, either conventional or [[magma forge|magma powered]]. At least one is absolutely required if your fortress intends to do ''any'' metalworking whatsoever, including [[weaponsmith]]ing, [[armorsmith]]ing, [[metalsmith]]ing and [[metal craft]]ing. <br />
<br />
Smithing an anvil uses the metalsmith skill.<br />
<br />
Since the only way to <i>make</i> an anvil is with a metalsmith's forge, your first anvil must be sourced from outside of your colony, either before embark or by later trading. Anvils require three [[metal]] [[bars]] to be [[smith]]ed at a forge - once you have one to begin with. As this is an infinite loop, the origins of the first anvil are hard to discern*.<br />
<br />
:''(* One theory is that a dwarf struck by a [[strange mood]] made one of [[stone]] or [[bone]]. Another more radical theory put forward by dwarven [[philosopher]] Sodel Tomemfikod is that the first one was made of [[wood]] in a similar manner. This was deemed a heresy and he was later sentenced to be hammered for being a [[elf]] sympathizer by an angry [[mayor]] who had a strange fondness for [[glass]].)''<br />
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<br />
== Acquiring an Anvil ==<br />
<br />
A standard (no quality) iron anvil is included by default in [[starting builds|starting equipment]], arriving with your dwarves in your [[wagon]]. If you choose not to bring an anvil, you are refunded the 1000 point cost, to be used for other purchases of items or skills. You will then have to [[trade]] for your first anvil with the dwarven (autumn) or [[human]] [[caravan]]s that usually (but not always!) carry one or more [[iron]] anvils (at a cost of 1000☼), and/or [[steel]] anvils (at a cost of 3000☼). If this fails the first time around, you may also request one from the [[dwarven liaison]] or [[human]] [[guild representative]], if you are willing to pay an increased price to guarantee that at least one anvil arrives with next year's caravan. <br />
<br />
Once you have an anvil and have built a [[forge]], [[smith]]ing an anvil requires three bars of metal. <br />
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Tearing down a forge retrieves the anvil used to build it, which can then be stored, traded, [[melt]]ed, or re-used to build another forge.<br />
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<br />
== Anvil Properties == <br />
<br />
Anvils may be made of [[iron]], [[steel]] or [[adamantine]]. Rarely, dwarves in [[strange mood]]s will make anvils out of other metals, and these can be used in any forge. The material used does not seem to affect the performance of the forge. Neither does the anvil's quality, although anvils have a high [[value|base cost]], so quality greatly increases their value. <br />
<br />
Anvils are considered [[furniture]] and will be stored in a furniture [[stockpile]] if not utilized in a forge.<br />
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[[Category:Items]]<br />
[[Category:Furniture]]</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Main_Page/Quote&diff=36725Main Page/Quote2009-06-07T00:44:16Z<p>Zchris13: Quote changed to accurately reflect my comment. (I did say it)</p>
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<div><!-- <br />
PLEASE LIMIT QUOTES TO ~135 CHARACTERS OR LESS.<br />
LONGER QUOTES MAY BE DELETED!<br />
<br />
/-->{{Choose|c={{#if: {{{1|}}}|{{rand|71}}|{{#expr: ({{rand2|10}}+61)}} }}<br />
|<!--1-->I can't put my finger on it. Something about this [[Fire|‼]]Cat tallow roast[[Fire|‼]] tastes funny.<br />
|<!--2-->Toady withdraws from society. Toady has begun a [[Strange_mood|mysterious]] construction!<br />
|<!--3-->Let us never forget the last words of Inod the Stoker, [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fortress_Paintrag#1056 "Aaah! Gorillas!"]<br />
|<!--4-->[[Children|Newborn]] Zuglar Baldnessgranite prefers to consume Gorilla. A sure sign of his unparalleled strength!<br />
|<!--5-->[http://www.somethingawful.com/d/video-game-article/duke-nukem-image.php In an unrelated article] - I had no idea elephants could bounce that high!<br />
|<!--6-->[[Toady]] looses a roaring laughter, [[Fey|fell]] and terrible! Toady has butchered a spammer!<br />
|<!--7-->The critical question is this''':''' do elf bones yield more crossbow bolts than the average number of bolts necessary to kill an elf?<br />
|<!--8-->"Dwarf Fortress" ... "Like chess, only with short people that can catch on [[fire]] like [[clothing|rags]] soaked in tar, and lots of [[booze]]." ... "Like chess."<br />
|<!--9-->Dwarf Fortress has taught me that all the world's problems would be substantially reduced had our parent civilizations never minted more than four stacks of [[coins]].<br />
|<!--10-->Booze does all the work in forts. Dwarves are just booze exoskeletons.<br />
|<!--11-->My unconscious and bleeding [[mayor]] just mandated the construction of some goods.<br />
|<!--12-->I can just imagine a wagon throwing a tantrum and tossing all its contents at people.<br />
|<!--13-->Döbesh Udosdeb has been ecstatic lately. He was forced to eat a friend to survive. He enjoyed a truly decadent meal.<br />
|<!--14-->Iron [[screw pump]] exercise equipment. Pump iron and get superdwarvenly strong!<br />
|<!--15-->The violence, aggression, pain, madness, sadness of the ASCII characters never ceases to amaze me...<br />
|<!--16-->Wait, you're MAKING animals?<br>&mdash;''Torak''<br>At this moment, yes, I am smelting cows.<br>&mdash;''Spiders Everywhere''<br />
|<!--17-->"Didn't you read the manual? He he he he... the manual... ..."<br>--[[Toady One]]<br />
|<!--18-->(Compared to real-world years) Dwarven years are shorter.<br>--Sowelu<br><br>Very fitting to dwarves, I must add.<br>--Sean Mirrsen<br />
|<!--19-->[[Magma]] is not a [[water]] source. Dwarves can't drink it or supply it to their wounded.<br>--[[User:AlienChickenPie|AlienChickenPie]]<br />
|<!--20-->"<nowiki>[B]</nowiki>oats are the enemy of tiles. And tiles are the enemy of boats."<br>--[[Toady One]]<br />
|<!--21-->"I went through and fixed a few places where forbidden/on fire weren't being respected for next time. Burning milkable creatures were still a problem for example."<br>--[[Toady One]]<br />
|<!--22-->"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!"<br>--[[User:Savok|Savok]]<br />
|<!--23-->"What happened in 1048?" "Jreengus occurred."<br />
|<!--24-->Making rock instruments isn't nearly as awesome as it sounds --Shandrunn<br />
|<!--25-->The cyclops I was quested to kill had a thousand year history of badassery, and all of that without the leg it lost in the Year 3 (a dwarf bit it off... I should probably deal with that). --[[Toady One]]<br />
|<!--26-->[FIREIMMUNE] makes them think that [[magma]] is safe but doesn't actually make them fireproof. This can lead to some rather interesting results.<br />
|<!--27-->Endok Cerolneth has begun a mysterious construction!<br />
Endok Cerolneth, Planter has given birth to a girl.<br />
|<!--28-->"Incendia sunt socia vestra, armaque vestra, fortesque Montis Domi." "Magma is your ally, your weapon, the strength of the Mountain-Home." --Eita<br />
|<!--29-->"Stopped people from giving quests to kill themselves." --[[Toady One]]<br />
|<!--30-->"...And I simply doubt we have a need for 7 fishery workers. On top of that, a second soap maker. The hell IS soap?!" --Zero<br />
|<!--31-->"This is a terrible pun. All craftsdwarfship is of the poorest quality." - [http://tinyurl.com/6yruly Soup_alex]<br />
|<!--32-->"The default mental state of a dwarf is madness. Sanity is a temporary condition - a PRIVILEGE you have to EARN!" --[[User:Fedor|Fedor]]<br />
|<!--33-->"Why get normal cats? I buy lolcats in the embark screen. Much more fun to engrave about them." --Yanlin<br />
|<!--34-->"Dwarf Fortress taught me it was okay to make a suit out of my neighbour's skin, as long as I gave it a name." <br />
|<!--35-->"Got rid of world gen crash during succession after death of prolific long-standing position holders with inbred descendants" --[[Toady One]]<br />
|<!--36-->"There was a typo in the siegers' campfire code. When the fires went out, so did the game." --[[Toady One]]<br />
|<!--37-->"Hey, what does that flashing red and orange text mean? What? Why is there smoke everywhere? Oh god, are those BABIES on fire?" --[[User:StrawberryBunny|StrawberryBunny]]<br />
|<!--38-->"It's never 'just a game' when you're losing."<br>--George Carlin (if he played Dwarf Fortress)<br />
|<!--39-->Not that building a bridge out of soap makes much sense to begin with anyway.<br />
|<!--40-->Note that while you cannot milk larger animals yourself, civilizations can still milk animals "off screen" for your benefit.<br />
|<!--41-->Tosid Idenarzes likes tentacle demons for their corrupt intentions. "There! Now we've covered all of the seven deadly sins."<br />
|<!--42-->"Litast Idenudesh, baby, is throwing a tantrum! Inod Litastrilem, Mayor, has lost consciousness. Inod Litastrilem, Mayor, has bled to death."<br />
|<!--43-->"Known bug #780: Town guard becomes a criminal after getting an adventurer's stolen weapon stuck in his body."<br />
|<!--44-->"Udib Toblumaid, Axedwarf, cancels sparring in Barracks: too insane." [[User:Ben jamm1n|Ben jamm1n]]<br />
|<!--45-->Kosoth Cilobonol, Bone Carver cancels Drink: Unconscious.<br />
|<!--46-->Sizir the Snail of Bait is a deity of The Fresh Towers. Sizir most often takes the form of a female dwarf and is associated with jealousy.<br />
|<!--47-->Sibrek Tanbim likes Limestone, Tin, Smoky Quartz, the color crimson, bolts, scepters, anvils, and rock blocks for their lack of quality levels.<br />
|<!--48-->Most vermin teleport, so nothing actually contains them. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]]<br />
|<!--49-->There are 5 articles in category Lore: Armok, Cave Adaptation, Elephant, Philosopher, and Vomit.<br />
|<!--50-->Fixed Bug #888: There was an alligator drunk<br />
|<!--51-->Fixed Bug #563: Mayor ordered himself beaten for failing to make crystal glass<br />
|<!--52-->If cow cheese is made from cow's milk, what is dwarven cheese made of?<br />
|<!--53-->''Belbezevost Närangagak Äkig:''<br>Goatsects the Raw Red Anus of Stretching<br />
|<!--54-->Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn<br />
|<!--55-->"You know, Urist, you've got a mind like an +Ash Trap+."--[[User:Destor|Destor]]<br />
|<!--56-->'''Zander J:''' "Is there a way to stop immigration without setting the population cap?"<br>'''Yanlin:''' "Magma."<br />
|<!--57-->An animal trainer just suddenly stopped working and hid himself in a workshop. He's probably going to make a wardog out of rock and goblin skulls.<br />
|<!--58-->flying creatures give birth in midair, leading to tragedy<br />
|<!--59-->"Dwarf Fortress: Screw mining for fish, we're fishing for rocks!" -Duke 2.0<br />
|<!--60-->'''Urdim Kutamèrith, Pump Operator, has created Rakusttenshed, a Glumprong blowgun!''' <br> Urdim, you are a freaking idiot.<br />
|<!--61--><Forkez> I don't get the game, but I do get that tunnels flooded with water is a bad thing.<br />
|<!--62-->"If you give a dwarf a fire, he will be warm for a night. If you set a dwarf on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life."<br />
|<!--63-->"Since the Elves said they won't let me cut down any trees, I bought 50 of their logs instead."<br />
|<!--64-->Do not make a trading race that breathes fire.<br/><br/>I REPEAT, DON'T!! EVER!! <br />
|<!--65-->If I ''remembered'' what the &%^#*@! lever did, I'd ''pull'' it! <...pulls lever anyway...><br />
|<!--66-->The flood just came out of ''nowhere''!!!<br />
|<!--67-->There's one thing a dwarf needs, and that's stones. And alcohol... and magma... but mainly stones.<br />
|<!--68-->Q: "What's the best way to have a single dwarf fight off an entire Orc siege?"<br /><br />
A: "With a lever." <br />
|<!--69-->"I swear to god once I saw a dwarf who was labeled as being Strong, Very Agile, Very Tough... and ''Clean''. But it was probably just a bad dream."<br />
|<!--70-->"So let me get this straight. We managed to destroy dwarven civilization while only managing a single town??" --alway<br />
|<!--71--><nowiki>::facepalm::</nowiki><br />Thanks. I wish I had known that about three forts ago. <br />
}}<!--WARNING:EQUALS SIGNS BREAK THINGS<br />
NOTICE: If you are editing this and you have not read the instructions on the talk page, your quote will probably not appear.--><noinclude>[[Category:Humor and stories]]</noinclude></div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Trap_design&diff=4948240d Talk:Trap design2009-06-06T22:20:36Z<p>Zchris13: </p>
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<div>:'''Editors & Contributors''' - Please include diagrams or ''clear'' and well-sized [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Images images]] if appropriate. For diagrams, use [[Character table|standard Dwarf Fortress symbols]] for your diagrams - an x is an up/down stairwell, a ╬ is a fortification, a ▲ is an up-ramp/slope, etc. etc. For screenshots, use the standard tileset, not a custom one that few may recognize.<br />
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:Please do NOT add a "theoretical" trap design, that you have not actually tested, unless you are 100% sure it will work.<br />
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:If your suggestion is lengthy and complex, consider placing it on your User: page with simpler explanation and a link here.<br />
<br />
:Lastly, if you can keep similar or alternate suggestions grouped within like subsections/topics/categories, that would be a good thing. Future wiki users and DF players thank you.<br />
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=New Pages, new organization=<br />
There had been about 5-6 pages on "defense", and articles and advice on various topics were scattered and repeated across all of them. This is an effort to re-organize them into 4 tightly defined and user-friendly topics using current DF wiki naming conventions - a General guide and overview [[Defense guide]], and 3 articles on specific design - layout and architecture ([[Defense design]]), traps ([[Trap design]]), and specific advice on organizing your military ([[Military design]]).<br />
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Discussion from any pages removed or renamed will be placed (or linked) under one of those four.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:21, 4 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Dragonfire Pillbox ==<br />
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Does anyone know if this will/not work? Do captured dragons flame at kobolds/orcs/siegers? Can this also be used w/ fire imps? (I think the answer to that last is "no" - iirc, imps need to have a path to their targets, which would require that a trap be much more complex - but still possible.)<br />
:If there is no confirmation, we should probably delete the design, unfortunately.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 12:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Don't be lame. It would totally work. Just nobody has done it yet.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 22:20, 6 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Weapon trap 'Spike strips'==<br />
Despite the image, no, its not for wagons, but rather its an idea I have for killing animals like maybe unicorns. I'm in an area with plenty of unicorns (didn't bring along hunters and its still my first year of the fortress), and stuff made from unicorn parts are generally valuable, right? Also, knowing from the entry saying that they are rather dangerous, I have an idea of a way to get materials from them with minimal risk to the dwarves. My idea is to have an area of weapon traps, most likely single weapon traps to minimize corpse mangling, and maybe have them in rows or a grid in an area so that the animals will cross and die. This could also apply to huntable creatures that are able to move fast like gazelles. I haven't actually done this and so I don't know how effective it would really be. Of course though, there is no real substitue for a good hunter as far as bringing back an intact corpse 100% of the time.....as long as the corpse isn't the hunters....--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 18:37, 6 June 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Gear_assembly&diff=1522940d Talk:Gear assembly2009-06-06T22:11:35Z<p>Zchris13: CZ has some ???</p>
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<div>"...this causes the windmill construction to collapse. Instead, create a second gear adjacent to the linked gear upon which to support the windmill." I'm having a hard time visualizing what this means, could someone make a diagram? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:48, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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Level 0, your windmill W (I'm not sure what it looks like)<br />
<br />
<pre><br />
....<br />
.W..<br />
..>.<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
Level -1, your gear assemblies, * and axle, =<br />
<pre><br />
####<br />
#**=<br />
##<#<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
Link your lever to the second assembly (right), such that the Windmill is supported by the other (left).<br />
<br />
--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 13:09, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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: won't this waste 5 power on a useless gear? why not just build a wall instead? --[[User:Lacero|Lacero]] 15:27, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
::because you need a gear under the windmill to get power from it. the second gear is so that you can cut power without collapsing the windmill. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 15:30, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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:::This only applies to a windmill built floating above the ground, so the above example doesn't apply -- disconnecting the gear in Draco18s' example would do nothing to the windmill. Really, you should just build a set of supports and some actual floor to put an above-ground windmill onto a "solid foundation", so that it remains supported even when you disconnect power. That way you don't lose any power from adding another gear assembly. Gear assemblies are 'spensive. --[[User:JT|JT]]<br />
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::::Yes, you're right. I was under the impression you needed a gear because mine hadn't worked with a vertical axle when I tried. However, I just tried again and it worked so I must have done something stupid like not dug a channel or placed the windmill wrong the first time. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 03:57, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br />
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I wish Toady would change the name "vertical axle" to "y-axle" and horizontal to x, etc. I've been reading this assuming assembly gears moved power across the z-axis only. Faces of Mu<br />
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::::Eh, don't worry! I started using the axles and realised they really were horizontal and vertical, with changing horizontal axles using the s key. Faces of Mu.<br />
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Is it possible to connect more than one axle to a gear assembly, and if so, is there any extra loss of power as a result? --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 14:35, 4 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:Yes and yes. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 17:02, 4 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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Is it possible to aggregate power with gears? That is to say, if you have two or more windmills and you use axles to move the power into a single column, does it sum up the power? --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 12:55, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:Yes. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 12:59, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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Deleted the 'Solidity' section from the page today. It's completely silly. Some reasons why below:<br />
<br />
:"Gears are presumably solid, however they do not block movement in a square."<br />
::Duh. We don't think they're made out of paper. But they're not so huge as to block the entire square like a door or wall... why would they?<br />
:<br />
:"Dwarves, kobolds, and other beasties have no problem walking through squares occupied by gear assemblies. It's also important to note that water can also flow freely through them."<br />
::See above.<br />
:<br />
:"Toady has considered causing damage to creatures that move through gear assemblies in the future, so don't build any main corridors through them."<br />
::Then put that in the talk section, where it belongs.<br />
[[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 22:48, 2 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== 6 directions and horizontal axles ==<br />
<br />
Is it possible for a gear assembly to be connected on all sides and will it use up 30 power or 5 power? horizontal axles won't gain power even if there is something generating energy going below and above it, even if there is a a channel?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 02:46, 7 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:I got it...they can be connected on all sides and will still take up 5 power. they should have made it like 3...--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 14:22, 7 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Water ==<br />
<br />
On of my gear assemblies got wet because a screw pump flooded the area. All of the attached machine parts stopped working and displayed the "inactive" message in the building screen. The amount of power needed also jumped to 24 for all of them (it was currently getting 20). Did it stop working because of the water alone, or did the water freeze in the mechanisms? Or did the water cause the power needed to increase so that there wasn't enough? It is a freezing map, but the water being pumped did not freeze. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 16:39, 1 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
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:Happened to me too just now... gear and three axles, the pump worked about ten seconds until all the area around was wet, then stopped. The windmill is still turning, but nothing else is happening. --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 04:27, 30 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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:I just submerged a gear, an axle, a gear connected to an axle, and a pump under 7/7 water. The power requirements didn't change at all. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 19:01, 4 February 2009 (EST)<br />
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== CHANGES ==<br />
I have heard, from several sources, that gear assemblies do not actually get the on/off type signal. In the Mist Generator thread (now with 4x the mist), people have been saying that gears '''TOGGLE'''. THIS IS REALLY BIG. It needs to be verified, and put into the article. Also, windmills are magical, right? They teleport power down through a floor, right?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 22:11, 6 June 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d:Elf&diff=1799140d:Elf2009-06-06T22:05:09Z<p>Zchris13: Trees are no longer named. They will be. They will be.</p>
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<div>{{CreatureInfo|name=Elf|symbol=E|color={{COLOR:3:0:0}}|butcher=no|<br />
bones=7|chunks=N/A|meat=N/A|fat=N/A|skulls=1|skin=N/A|<br />
biome=<br />
* In their retreats, usually in [[forest]]s<br />
}}<br />
'''Elves''' are intelligent [[humanoid]] [[creature]]s who live in [[Map_legend#Sites|forest retreat]]s. They are one of the races playable in [[Adventure Mode]]. Their retreats have no buildings, but the [[tree]]s in the area were named, before 3-d happened. You can just make up names for the trees. They love nature and are ready to defend it, typically with [[bow]]s. They may invade a fortress which violates their tree-cutting limit.<br />
<br />
== Elves in Fortress Mode ==<br />
<br />
Elves are a [[trading]] race and send small [[caravan]]s without [[wagon]]s in [[Calendar|spring]]. They usually bring [[Thread]], [[cloth]], [[rope]], various [[plants]] and [[seed]]s, [[wood]]en items, and some [[wood]]. They may also bring some [[tame]] [[animal]]s. Elves also bring a crapload of useless stuff: [[armor]] and clothes too large to wear, inferior wooden [[weapons]], inferior [[alcohol|booze]], inferior redroot [[dye]], [[bow]]s and [[arrow]]s ''(these can at least be used for weapon traps)''. They are very picky about what they will accept in return: Elves will accept anything except items made out of or decorated with any wood. This includes glass items ''(due to the [[potash]] which comes from [[ash]] which comes from [[Wood burner|burning wood]])''.<br />
<br />
[[Metal]] items are acceptable, even when [[charcoal]] is used in their production. Items made from [[silk]] are acceptable, as are all non-wooden plant-based products such as [[plump helmet]]s, seeds, and ☼Dwarven syrup biscuits[45]☼. Dairy products, such as milk and cheese, are currently acceptable. You can also transport your goods to the [[trade depot]] in a wooden [[bin]], as long as you do not try to sell the bin. This also applies to goods in [[barrel]]s. Living [[animals]] are acceptable, as long as the [[cage]] or [[trap]] is not made of [[wood]]. They also no longer mind purchasing blood-soaked items.<br />
<br />
Although [[tower-cap]]s are giant mushrooms, they are considered [[trees]] by the elves and thus are not acceptable.<br />
<br />
=== Living among them ===<br />
Living with Elves is pretty much the same as living among [[Humans]], but they don't build houses, [[furniture]], or anything else that uses wood. So basically, it's just like living anywhere else, but with guards.<br />
<br />
== Elven society ==<br />
The ethics of elven society are substantially divergent from other races; [[liar|Lying]] is punishable by exile, the killing of plants is an unthinkable crime, and eating the corpse of one's opponent in battle is socially acceptable. The elven leaders are referred to as druids, not kings.<br />
<br />
== Elves in Adventure Mode ==<br />
<br />
Elven forest retreats are represented by yellow symbols in [[forest]]s on the world map. They do not have any [[shop]]s, but they seem to have a great amount of elite marksmen to recruit. The leader and quest giver of a retreat is called the "druid", who can be found wandering the forest floor with the other elves.<br />
<br />
Elven characters start with a wooden [[weapon]] and a set of basic wooden [[armor]] that lacks protection for the torso. This limitation often leads to a quick death. They do have some advantages, however: they're one [[size]] larger than [[dwarves]], which makes them hit harder and absorb more damage, though they also have a natural armor penalty which causes them to take slightly more damage than normal. Their main redeeming quality is their speed, being roughly 20% faster than the other playable races.<br />
<br />
Those that live among other races may have metal or leather armor fitted for a narrow frame, though elven shopkeepers in human towns will still only sell human equipment. These Elven shopkeepers will also not accept coins, you must trade actual goods with them. Elven adventurers may equip any metal weapons or [[shield]]s they come across, just like any other.<br />
<br />
Elves are at peace with wildlife, which means they won't be attacked by most animals (verify if most or all). In addition, they can talk to the animal-man races (such as [[snakeman|snakemen]] and [[batman|batmen]]) and even get the most excitement-seeking ones to join their party.<br />
<br />
{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:ELF]<br />
[NAME:elf:elves:elven]<br />
[TILE:'E'][COLOR:3:0:0]<br />
[SPEED:700][GRASSTRAMPLE:0]<br />
[GENPOWER:3]<br />
[INTELLIGENT]<br />
[CANOPENDOORS]<br />
[PREFSTRING:grace]<br />
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]<br />
[NARROW]<br />
[DAMBLOCK:-1]<br />
[SIZE:7]<br />
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]<br />
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]<br />
[CHILD:12][BABY:1][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]<br />
[FAT:1]<br />
[EQUIPS]<br />
[DIURNAL]<br />
[SPEECH:elf.txt]<br />
[STANDARD_FLESH]<br />
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]<br />
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]<br />
[PERSONALITY:IMAGINATION:0:55:100]<br />
[PERSONALITY:ARTISTIC_INTEREST:0:60:100]<br />
[PERSONALITY:INTELLECTUAL_CURIOSITY:0:55:100]<br />
[PERSONALITY:SELF_DISCIPLINE:0:45:100]<br />
[PERSONALITY:ACTIVITY_LEVEL:0:40:100]<br />
}}<br />
{{creatures}}<br />
[[Category:Races]]<br />
[[Category:Humanoids]]</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Armor&diff=2490740d Talk:Armor2009-06-02T00:16:44Z<p>Zchris13: /* Plate over chainmail changed? */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Boots==<br />
Corrected the matter with low and high boots. If you look at the raws you can see that the armor level of both boot types are the same and thus they can both be used as chain and plate armor. My games have proved this to me. Only real difference between the two boot types is that the high boot is heavier and protects more of the body than just the feet. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 05:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==clothes layers==<br />
Does anyone know the rules of where you can wear each piece of armor? For example, can you wear a high boot and leggings? or only low boots with leggings? Do you need to make two boots? --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 20:30, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
: You can wear high boots with leggings. Leggings and high boots have different layers. --[[User:JT|JT]] 17:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
On a similar note, what's the difference between steel leggings and steel greaves? I would've thought leggings would cover below the knee as well. Do I need both to provide maximum Xtreme protection? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:17, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
: As far as I can tell, greaves are the Plate class upgrade to leggings, which are Chain class lower body armor. Unlike upper body armor however, dwarves don't appear to be able to wear both leggings and greaves at once and will drop their leggings in favour of a set of greaves when set to Plate armor. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 14:03, 25 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Protection values==<br />
I would like to know if it's possible to find out the various protection values of different types of armor. For example, we know the material and quality modifiers for armor, but not, say, how much better plate mail protects you than chain. Or whether greaves or high boots offer more coverage.<br />
I ask because I'm wondering if, with high quality modifiers, [[adamantine]] ''clothing'' is viable protection for those who aren't wearing armor. Certainly, it'd make a good halfway measure for those who can't do magma smelting yet, but ''can'' get a Craftsdwarf's Workshop, Loom, and Clothesmaker's Workshop set up to extract the threads, weave them, and make clothes. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:48, 13 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Soldier==<br />
<br />
I think some of this article, specifically that stuff in the Using armor section, should be moved over to an article more dedicated to soldier preferences. As it is, it's describing everything about arming civilians with weapons instead of simply talking about armoring civilians; that content seems more appropriate for an article about soldiers or the hunting article. --[[User:JT|JT]] 17:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Verified==<br />
<br />
I can verify that whan setting dwarves to chain, they wear gauntlets --[[User:Nog|Nog]] 16:21, 12 November 2007 (EST)<br />
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== Table ==<br />
<br />
I added a Materials Needed section to the table. Is this OK? --[[User:Nanor|Nanor]] 19 December 2007<br />
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:Excellent idea. It looked a little odd in the table, so I moved it to the text instead. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 16:47, 19 December 2007 (EST)<br />
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:: Much better! Thanks! --[[User:Nanor|Nanor]] 17:50, 19 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== 23.130.23a ==<br />
<br />
We had much more info on armor in the [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Armor old wiki]. Could someone with an account there bring the relevant bits over? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Edit: Ported over most information; change anything that isn't correct.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 13:06, 26 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
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== Leather Armor re: Caps and Helms ==<br />
<br />
A soldier set to leather armor can wear leather helms, not just caps, and they'll wear a cap at the same time underneath (at least, if it's silk. I haven't confirmed yet if a soldier will wear a leather cap + a leather helm; doesn't really matter). This is a good thing because helms (according to the old wiki) have higher Block. They're heavier too but this shouldn't be a problem. --[[User:Stromko|Stromko]] 19:57:15 (PST), January 06 2007<br />
<br />
:In the old versions, the materials of the armor pieces were irrelevant, regardless of the fact that the lowest armor level is called "leather". Leather and chain wearers would wear any kind of legging or boot, and a plate wearer would wear even a pig tail helm, if they happened to come across one, showing no preference for better material types or quality. Has this changed, or does the table in this article contain some wrong assumptions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:42, 7 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::I seem to recall that 'light' materials like cloth, shell, and bone effectively 'downgraded' armor by one level, weighed half as much, and were 50% of the maximum effectiveness per their type. However! I can see right now in my current fortress a steel cap is 78 pounds and a cave spider silk cap is 13 pounds. This shows not all old information is correct. <br />
<br />
Furthermore, bone and shell doesn't become a 'lighter' class. Shell Gauntlets require Chain or above to be assigned, and Turtle Bone Greaves go un-used until a dwarf is set to Plate.<br />
<br />
However, I /can/ confirm from this very fortress I'm looking at right now, that dwarves assigned to leather went to pick up and wear Leather Helms. Unless, that is, they already have metal Caps. I'm looking at a marksdwarf right now assigned to wear Leather who has a Steel Cap, a pig tail hood (they all have hoods), and no helm. Everybody else has a leather helm.<br />
<br />
I should note my fortress has no metal helms lying around, nor does it have spare metal caps, so I'm unable to verify that dwarves set to Leather wouldn't wear metal Helms or preferentially choose caps (they'd probably choose /either/ Metal Caps or Leather Helms if given a choice). However, I'm pretty sure they would not. Therefore, it is my understanding that they make a distinction between different material types. --[[User:Stromko|Stromko]] 03:22 (PST), January 07 2007<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Shields and Bucklers ==<br />
<br />
Hmm it states here that dwarves can wear BOTH shields and bucklers, however in soldiering screen you can select EITHER shield OR buckler, but NOT both. Does this part of article apply to Adv. mode only? Could someone verify, please? --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 18:21, 24 February 2008 (EST)<br />
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I would guess the trick is to tell them to use bucklers first, waiting til they pick one up, then telling them to use shields, at which point they'll pick up a shield without dropping the buckler first. Like how you can get dwarves to wear a leather armour, chain mail, and plate on top all at the same time if you set them to leather, then chain, then plate. [[User:Furiousfish|Furiousfish]] 20:54, 6 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Natural Selection ==<br />
<br />
Being a bit of a nooblet, and not having much war in any of my fortresses, I'm confused as to how armor selection works. <br />
<br />
Would I be correct if I said "Setting a dwarf to wear Plate armor will cause him to grab plate whenever and wherever possible, but substitute leather, chain, or bone wherever no plate is available. So, for example, if my metalsmiths never make helms, but my leatherworker has caps and helms galore, they'll wear plate armor and a leather helm. Right? If so, this should probably be mentioned. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 19:24, 28 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:I've found that a dwarf set to wear plate will grab the best available armor. More puzzling is that they will sometimes stack armor; IE dwarves wearing plate mail and chain mail at the same time. However, I never keep a stock of leather armor, so I wouldn't know if it can be used in conjunction with metal armor.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 22:29 21 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
::The dwarves seem to be notorious for pulling on a full suit of armour ie chain-then-plate, there's a reason a fort I made (whose metal industry relies on eg [[coal]] and [[lignite]]) is making all chain-mail, crossbows and shields to defend against gobbo raids ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 09:13, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
Just wanted to point out that leather armor and plate can't be put on together.<br />
<br />
== Gloves ==<br />
My military is set to wear Leather armor, but they don't take leather gloves. High boots, leggings, armor and helmets are used OK. Is the article data incorrect?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:51, 15 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
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Some equipment is unavaliable for dwarf use because it is the incorrect size. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:40, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
My guess is that your dwarves are already wearing cloth gloves. This is considered clothing level armor, the same level as leather gloves. They see no reason to switch armor when the leather gloves provide the same "level of protection." I think your best bet would be to dump their cloth gloves, if you're that worried about them. You can always reclaim them later. --[[User:PrettyGrizzly|PrettyGrizzly]] 11:00, 4 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Artifacts ==<br />
<br />
This has an excellent table defining the bonuses for quality/materials, but completely excludes artifact modifiers. I would assume that these would always be the best, regardless, of material, but I just found myself with a rhesus macaque leather shield and don't know if I should use it in place of, oh, I don't know, a more ''steel'' one.<br />
:Currently, the exact modifier for artifact quality seems to be unknown. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 18:27, 30 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Fort-mode equipment quirks==<br />
<br />
The edit I just made was prompted by seeing a dwarf wearing ''twelve'' cloaks, and remembering the "cannot wear cloaks" phrase mentioned in the pre-edit version of the bit below the giant table. I tried to reconcile the two statements that were already there, particularly in light of said cloak-happy dwarf. However, there's also one thing I'm wondering about: is the number of equipped items partially determined by what order they're put on in fortress mode? I ''think'' it is, but am not sure, so I decided not to include that. If it's the case, however, I think it'd be worth mentioning along with the cloaks part (even in the old version of the page, should somebody decide to revert my edit or something). --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 20:23, 6 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Dungeon masters wear nothing but 12 colors of cloaks and mittens. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 13:07, 23 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Over Under Armor Cover ==<br />
<br />
Besides sounding like a Daft Punk chorus, these are four LAYER values. I know what Over and Under do with respect to each other: You can't wear Under on top of Over. Do the others follow the same pattern, are they all ordered? Is there some more mysterious effect for "Cover" and "Armor"? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 01:04, 27 November 2008 (EST)<br />
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== Decorating Armor ==<br />
Wasn't sure whether to ask this here or under gem setter - is it not possible to get a gem setter to decorate armor? I know leather armor can receive images and bone/shell decorations (and presumably the bone/shell applies to metal as well), I can't fathom why you can't put gems on suits of armor given that.... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:44, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:AFAIK no, it isn't possible to decorate armor or weapons. That's one of the more frequently requested additions on the forums.[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:33, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
::It is, however, possible to acquire armor already decorated with gems via trade with a caravan. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:09, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:::Said armor would unlikely to be masterwork, nor with masterwork decorations. Nor would it be made of adamantine. I'm afraid its no real supplement. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:35, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Oh, sure, if you want to, like, *survive*. Instead of look pretty. Where are your priorities? :) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:50, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:::::I want to survive *and* look pretty. When faced with a choice of two appealing options, the correct choice is obviously 'yes'. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:01, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
::::::I suppose you have a point. Oh, well, back to [[Decoration|Stud with platinum]]. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 19:25, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Markdwarves only work with bucklers?!?! ==<br />
<br />
I guess that makes sense since historically, bucklers were made to strap to the forearm and allow archers to use their bows...<br />
<br />
Anyway, it seems my markdwarves don't like it when I make them use a shield. They stop carrying ammunition and won't practice shooting when off duty.<br />
<br />
Is this the reason or is something else going on? Anyway, if it is indeed the case that markdwarves don't work with shields, it deserves mention, right?<br />
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 13:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's unclear, for this reason: ThreeToe has stated, point blank, that '''"The two handed code is broken right now... the crossbow is always two handed."''' So it's unclear if a marksdwarf ever actually uses a shield or buckler if they're holding a crossbow - they might be using it 2 handed in melee as well (and I more than suspect they are). <br />
<br />
:The way you suspect it to work is, I'd guess, the way it's ''supposed'' to work... whether that has anything to do with the way it ''does'' work is another guess.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 14:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:I've found that the best way is not to assign a buckler/shield at all. They then will use the free hand to carry practice bolts while off duty, while keeping metal bolts in the quiver for use at a moments notice. I suppose if the dwarf was done training, then you could assign a buckler.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 19:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== ARMOR ARTICLE SPLIT/COMBINING?==<br />
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[[Leather Armor]], should have it's own page. It is an item, like platemail.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:22, 23 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:I've been thinking about the "armour" category in general - every different item does not need its very own page. What is there to say about "leather armour" (the item, not the suit)? Look at [[low boot]], or [[leggings]] vs. [[greaves]] - waste of time to have to go to a diff page for each, and it currently takes ''how many'' to get a full picture of "armour"? Isn't this the type of thing that can be all combined into one more useful page?<br />
::*Armor - general <br />
::*Suits of Armor - the 5 basic parts<br />
:::*of leather<br />
:::*of chain<br />
:::*of plate<br />
:*layering<br />
:*known quirks and bugs<br />
:Maybe one page with all pieces, and then another (this) with all the misc information.[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::I'm thinking of something more along the lines of a page for the different sets, combining the different separate pages for each item of armor.<br />
<br />
:::There is a discussion about this page on a user talk page. ''Please discuss the Armor page here.'' And please state any problems or conflicts with the Armor page, so they can be evaluated and discussed.<br />
:::Personally, I have few problems with the page. But then I pretty much know everything the page states, and while I like the comprehensive, factual style of the page it may not be the best style for educating new players. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 14:12, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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(DELETED COMMENTS ON OVER-ENTHUSIASM. Non-relevant now. We move forward.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Improving presentation of "Armor" ===<br />
<br />
I think the larger point (echoed from posts above) is that, as is, the article makes sense to those who understand it - but isn't optimized for those who don't. There are 3 general problems that I perceive with the articles (plural) as they stand, and those same 3 areas I'd like to see addressed:<br />
:* Scattered information - too many stub articles about individual armour pieces or one tiny facet of "armour".<br />
:* No clean, unified "This all you need (to know) for leather armor", "This what you need (to know) for chain armor" (sub)articles.<br />
:* This article is already borderline too long. Info is getting lost, readers are getting boggled - need a concept split between basic vs. advanced (or something sim). There are 11 sections, w/ some hefty sub-sections - that's too many by half.<br />
<br />
(And I think we have to concede that answering the rather arcane question of ''"How does it work, EXACTLY?"'' will be an ongoing process, I'm afraid.)<br />
<br />
Spotting problems is easy and cheap - solving them is the tough part. A user wants "all" relevant information in front of them, and not much more - and that'll be diff for each user. But I think we can take a stab at a generally applicable organization. I'd suggest this (as a starting point for this process, ~if~ it's agreed it needs to be addressed) -<br />
<br />
2 articles; #1 deals w/ armor at face value for those not interested in the details (what each piece is, how they fit together into suits, how a dwarf puts them on, what craft/shop builds what), and #2 deals with the numbers for the number crunchers and optimizers (repetition of quality/material tables, damblock numbers, and all that issue.) For those Players who are comfortable in the simple (and correct) assumption that chain armour is "better" than leather, the first page gives them all they need to know (perhaps w/ hints & links beyond). For those who need more (a little or a lot), they go to the second page, where they'll find the Protection and Weight tables, and all the details that are teased slowly from the tags and RAW's.<br />
<br />
Off the top of my head, I'd call the first page "Armor Guide" (fitting into Category: Guide) - all current "armor" articles would redirect to that one, at least. The second (advanced) article might be titled something like "Armor details" or "Armor values" or "Armor explained", and have all the stuff that boggles the unprepared. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I think the creation of armor belongs somewhere else in the wiki. The types of armor should be defined first, with all the exceptions and rules explained in a single article. Another article on the way the pieces layer on top of each other, and a final section of the second article for the defense bonuses of each item and the coverage, and all the other good and juicy technical things.<br />The current layout is two biased towards traditional thinking, and is like trying to push the triangle block into the circle hole in those toys for tykes. It just doesn't fit the technicality that is dwarf fortress.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:53, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I agree re "making armor" - under "Armorsmith" seems reasonable. "Layering" is part of wearing, if an advanced part and one that is often overlooked ''(possibly because that article is lost among so much other bandwidth.)'' I think (depending on final size of the article, and number of sub-sections), that could be put at the bottom of the same page as definitions/how to use, so it's not separate from "suits", but works hand in hand with that info. <br />That would give us a format that looks ''something'' like...<br />
:*Article #1: Armor Guide:<br />
::*Individual Pieces - (copied & improved from the various stub articles, which all then become redirects)<br />
::**the 3 (4?) Levels (lthr, chain, plate - and clothing)<br />
::*Using Armor - basic "how to" (not "advice" or strategies, unless universal warnings)<br />
:::*Layering<br />
::*Shields & Bucklers<br />
::*"Misc" ("oddities") - sizes, wrestling, etc.<br />
:::(deleted/redirected: "Making Armor" & "requirements" -> Armorsmith; possibly dump value table & quality table - redundant)<br />
<br />
:*Article #2: "Armor Analysis" - number cruncher's bible ''(needs a better name)''<br />
::*damblock/protection values<br />
::*Chart showing Analysis of diff types/combo's<br />
::*weight explanation<br />
::*size/permit explanation<br />
<br />
:::That puts everything the new/intermediate player needs to know about armour on 1 page, and all the "behind the scenes data" on another. Easy conceptual split.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Plate over chainmail changed? ==<br />
<br />
I cannot get my dwarves to wear plate over chainmail. If I order them to wear chainmail, they wear it, including both a cap and a helm. If I order them to wear plate, they do indeed take off the chainmail first. I think this has been fixed, so I'm putting the appropriate 'verify' tags on the article. I also wonder if the helm-over-cap was always intended, rather than a glitch caused by stepping through armour levels. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 06:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:This has always been treated as a feature, not a bug, but whatever. It is called "layering armor". Dwarfs are also able to wear chain over leather, but not a "lighter" armor over a heavier one. I just tried it, and it works fine - chain over leather, plate over chain, no problem. (Oddly, they won't wear plate mail over leather armor, but such a step-up will cause the cap/helm layering.) vanilla 40d.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::It's a little more complicated. The '''size and permit''' section of the article explains armor layering. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:22, 1 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Well, that's very strange, then. I've got steel chainmail and steel plate mail, and per above, if I go nothing &rarr; chain &rarr; plate (giving them time to put everything on at each step), they put almost everything on at the "chain" stage (including both a steel cap and steel helm), and then promptly ditch their chainmail in favour of plate at the "plate" stage. Am I misunderstanding this? &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Wisq|Wisq]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 17:36, 1 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::"Chain" and "Plate" level armours (the full suits) both include boots, gauntlets, helmet and possibly a steel cap underneath. Chain leggings would get ditched in favour of greaves, but the torso piece, the "chain armour", should still be seen in inventory along with "plate armour".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Unless of course, we are totally wrong. Which is entirely possible.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Example/consider shell..? ==<br />
So if i read this right a masterful shell item gives the same protection as a no quality iron item? Thus i might consider using it in early game or in a tough game with no iron/steel..not even copper - or if my armorsmith is not yet able to produce higher qualities, but my carver is?<br />
<br />
how to factor in weight? -is encumbrance only making dwarves slower or also fight worse?</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Albedo&diff=48477User talk:Albedo2009-05-30T22:00:53Z<p>Zchris13: You're cool.</p>
<hr />
<div>== Aluminum in copper ==<br />
<br />
I have definitely seen aluminum inside a copper vein. It was freakin amazing. Also found 3 magnetite flippin huge clusters, each as big as my fort, 3 lignite veins, 2 microcline (bleagh) big groups, gold and silver vein, 1 hematite vein. It was great. More iron than I know what to do with. But totally aluminum in copper. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:26, 23 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stone articles ==<br />
<br />
The articles on the various types of [[stone]] are based entirely on data taken from the game raws. It's possible the raw data has changed since the article was written, but observation alone is not good enough when we have that kind of inside info. If you see some sort of weird anomaly (like veins of aluminum), then Toady would most likely appreciate a bug report about that. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:28, 25 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:not veins of aluminum. Aluminum adjacent to veins. I have seen it in hematite, and copper. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:05, 14 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Could someone point me to where the discussions are on how the articles should be set up? Sorry. I just... I'm being impulsive and driven and stuff and I want to know so I can /do/ stuff, and... you know, stuff. With stuff in it. I'm clearer after sleep, I promise. (Don't believe me, I'm always ambiguous, though rarely by intent.) --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 08:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::NM. Found it. Duh... Trust me, sleep ''is'' my friend. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]<br />
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== (response) ==<br />
<br />
But ''is'' it an anomaly? I'm not sure how to read the RAW's at that level. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Both are IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE, so, depending upon how the raws are acted upon, there are several ways this could happen...<br />
:::1) The layer tiles are replaced first with veins(copper), and then small clusters (aluminum). Veins sometimes leave pockets of the layer stone incased, when the vein splits and then reconnects. I've seen it a few times, but I wouldn't call it common. The small cluster that would have been aluminum if the copper weren't there covers part or all of the area within the pocket. The rest of area of the small cluster is ignored, since the aluminum raws do not mention copper. (The way platinum mentions magnetite, for example).<br />
:::2) The layer tiles are replaced first with the small clusters (aluminum) and then the veins (copper)... the copper vein just happens to meander around the pre-existing aluminum.<br />
:::3) It does several iterations of whatever order it does, making both options 1 and 2 possible, potentially simultaniously (though not in the same tile, obviously).<br />
:::4) Something completely different I have no clue about. I could make some stabs at things that could have caused that result, but they would all be both difficult and clunky, both in the design and in the implimentation.<br />
:::5) It glitched. It's a computer. It happens all the time.<br />
::Was that ''completely'' useless, or just mostly so? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC) (Poking around at modding is helping me learn to read RAW)<br />
<br />
==Trader==<br />
<br />
If the Appraiser skill is the highest skill you have, isn't the profession "trader"? I know I've seen the trader profession before. Below is what I think the skill/professions are.<br />
<br />
<br />
Appraiser -> Trader<br /><br />
Building designer -> Architect<br /><br />
Organizer -> Administrator<br /><br />
Record keeper ->Clerk<br /><br />
<br />
I ''think'' that you are correct in that the overall skill (when you have two or more skills close in skill level) is also adminstrator. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Just read your log - I notice you build walls around the pipe. Have you considered a channel around the pit? Same effect, but you don't have to carry stone.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 21:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Fixed Trader - my bad. Read the Skill discussion page - that group of skills is not at all clear.<br />
<br />
:I don't intend to go near the imps - the wall will create an AG enclosure above my dining hall/kitchen area, for AG crops, statue garden, private water and fishing area, etc etc. (More extensive answers in Kwieland's talk page) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:15, 9 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== fuel ==<br />
While it is true that I moved the page to "Refined coal", the page I moved it from was "Refined Coal". The naming convention you were asking about is to only capitalize the first letter, since wiki links are case sensitive on all letters except the first. I think the original name of the article was "Refined Coal".<br />
<br />
As for the origin of the term, it appears in the cancellation message if you assign a fuel-requiring task when you have no fuel. If this message no longer shows up, I have no qualms about retiring the term. However, if it still does then "refined coal" is a more suitable name than "fuel" since only "refined coal" appears in-game. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I agree that the confusion needs to be cleared up, but I don't think separating [[fuel]] and [[refined coal]] into separate articles will help since they are just words for the same thing. I think that the best solution would be a short disambiguation at the top of the [[refined coal]] page. As long as all the terms redirect to that page anyone interested in any of them will end up seeing it. As for the title, we should definitely prefer an in-game term over a forum-supplied term. Everyone who uses the wiki plays the game, but not everyone uses the forum.<br />
<br />
:The article as-is contains all the information pertaining to the naming issue, but if you think it's confusing, the page organization may be to blame. Perhaps information pertaining to names and categories could be consolidated at the top. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::There is no such thing as "fuel coal". The terms are "refined coal" and "coal fuel". [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I know, I know! And I find I can't shake that term! (esp when tired). Not sure where used it this time, but it's like Pres. Bush saying "nucular arsenal". Arrrggghhhh!!!! --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:52, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Olivine ==<br />
<br />
See [[Talk:Olivine]] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==That revealed vein comment of Zchris13==<br />
I totally understand why you undid that, but it was sort of funny. And I can accomplish that without using a third party utility. I can create down stairs on the level above, which reveals the tile. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:57, 13 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== armorsmith page - re quality of artifact armor ==<br />
<br />
In my head, I thought artifact armour & weapons were better than masterwork too, but that's not what the [[Item quality]] page says:<br />
<br />
:☼Item Name☼ Masterful ×12 ×2.0 <br />
:Unique name Artifact ×120 ×2.0 <br />
<br />
And we should assume that's accurate, neh?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:nobody knows. It is a mystery!!!! Ohhhh...<br />I really don't know what to believe. Toady has dropped contradicting hints, people report contradicting data, and nobody really knows what is going on. I say we just put a maybe in there. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 02:00, 16 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sorting table on [[Metal]] page by color ==<br />
<br />
The issue is that the only plaintext in the color column is "*", which is hard to sort by. If we want it to be sortable we need the plaintext of each entry to not be identical. A pretty way to pull this off isn't coming to mind, but that's the goal. Nice work on the table, by the way. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:22, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Maybe the first letter of the color name, in the same color as the background. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:15, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Or change the tile entirely - the more I look at it, not sure what the whole "background color" achieves. But as I understand it the use of the icon (the asterisk) representing the ore is the problem. May take some rethinking.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Every metal has a unique foreground color and a unique background color. On items like doors, you get to see both. This is actually why doors are included in the corners of the diagram on the assorted metal pages (eg: [[copper]]) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::: <Nods> Got it. Is there a way to "pipe" the icon in, and use some numerical representation to sort? Meh, you've probably thought of that. Or piping the icon in??? Or using a subtly diff icon? Sorting by color is, admittedly, perhaps the least of our concerns with that table. Maybe remove the "sortable" part from the template for now?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:24, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What is it we are sorting here? --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:: Metal page table (fixed in sub-title above)<br />
HA! fixed. me r hte supra jeeeenius! Completely by accident, natch. Tried adding numbers in w/ the asterisks, to give the system something to sort. That worked w/ only 2 numbers, they ''all'' sorted. So I backed out, and tried same w/ <small>small</small> numbers for a better look. Then w/ only 1 small "A" for adamantine, no numbers - that worked too! Then, just for the helluvit, I tried making one asterisk small - and that worked too, w/ no visible difference in text. All it needed was one difference, and they all get sorted, np. woot and a half.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:32, 20 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:lol. Did you try it with no change at all? I bet that would have sorted, too. Why? Because the edit right before yours was a fix :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::... buzzkill! LOL! didn't even see an edit before mine. suuuuupra jeeeeenius!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:02, 20 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== User name vs preferred name/nickname ==<br />
<br />
Albedo, I don't know why you think that it's unacceptable for someone to use a different name to sign their posts.<br><br />
There's a built-in function for doing exactly that (once you figure out how to use it) in your preferences.<br><br />
Additionally, while this isn't Wikipedia, you still shouldn't bite the newbies. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I guess because I'm used to going to "User:Name" to find their page, and that doesn't work - why take one username when you intend to use an entirely diff nickname? And I felt I was more muzzling than biting - over-enthusiasm is laudable, and ignorance is something that everyone has, but a bad combination together in public.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:59, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Personally, I joined with my usual semi-anonymous handle, as I wasn't sure I'd stick around, or that the wiki was going to be worth working on. Later decided that I was going to try to be a significant part of the community, and set my nickname/signature to my Real first name. That's probably something similar to most people who use non-User name signatures. It's also possible that what name people would normally choose won't work for signing up. ''In the end, clicking the signature of a user will take you there, regardless of what they put in it or why they don't use their user name.'' -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Do tell. And you do this "clicking" thing with that computer mouse thing???... Stating the obvious is... well, exactly what it is. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:48, 21 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::lol... ok, you want blunt? Don't tell other people to do something a certain way that you prefer, simply because you don't want to use the system already in place. -[[User:N9103|Edward]]<br />
<br />
:::No, altho' blunt serves it's purpose. However now you're simply repeating what you've already said, which again serves none. But it seems I must follow suit - if I want to go to your page but don't have your sig in front of me, I would normally type "User:Edward" in the search box and hit "go" - that doesn't work. Hence, problematic, and NO direct system is in place. Solution? Either Search, or create a redirect for you. And your personal shift in names is not what TD did - which I thought would also be obvious. Your concern is admirable - I think you are/were confused as to my exact position, which is "Why adopt a psuedonym ''the same day'' you create the User Account?".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::It annoys me too, Albedo. But I really just think we should let it lie. Can't really hurt anything, can it? Other than our brains, but whatever.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::<nods> --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::... I didn't mean to get you all riled up. And thank you, [[User:N9103|Edward]], for asking him not to bite me, but I /did/ rather earn it... at least the ignorant + over-enthusiastic part. (I'm not saying I'm cured, yet, either.) Also, with warnings all over the place, if I can't handle a little criticism, I should just go home and cry, and not come back until I'm all grown up. Boo hoo. Ok, I'm done now.<br />
::: Again, as to the me not signing with a link, it was a P.S. There was a (hand typed, oif) link directly above. Also, I was /really/ new and /really/ ignorant. I'm still fairly new (I've still got the "how to use the tildies to sign your name" guide at the top of my talks page so I don't forget), and I'll always be ignorant, but I'm fairly decent at figuring things out once five or six people have yelled at me about the same thing. Thanks, btw. I did need that. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:12, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I might recommend putting in a new-user default page that explains basic behind-the-wiki language, except for 2 things. A) It would not have helped me keep out of trouble, since I initially signed up due to poor impulse control and I /had/ to respond to... I don't even know what, anymore. And B) most (but not all) is fairly easy to pick up on the fly if you (bother to) look at how it was done by the other six people who responded before you... which is why I was typing my link out by hand at first... and some of them said "Teres Draconis" instead of "jaz" because I didn't understand the syntax ''at all''. When I say "I don't speak geek," I'm not joking. But I think I'm learning to read this dialect fairly well. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]<br />
:::::The WTML is fairly easy to understand, much easier than HTML. There is a very helpful help section at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents/Editing_Wikipedia The Big Wiki]. Note that their rules are different from ours, you don't need to follow their style guidelines.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Non-Dwarves guide to stone comment==<br />
I guess you removed my comment on alunite to avoid confusion with the value stuff? I've had places where you can't go more than 20 tiles or so without "You have struck Alunite!".--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 12:30, 22 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:(response) Np then as it's understandable to avoid confusion.<br />
<br />
== [[Armor sets]] ==<br />
<br />
You seem to be interested in changing these. How do you like what I did?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:44, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />[[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] seems not to like it so much. hmm...--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 03:48, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== glass = wood ==<br />
<br />
[[elf|Elves]] dislike green glass as well? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:16, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Good point - now that you mention it, dunno. (I didn't make the original post, just expanded to explain the connection). I've got a Spring trading session coming up, and green/clear glass - I can triple check. Or, if you know the answer, of course feel free to edit the edit, np by me.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I have no clue on this one :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:03, 30 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== quotes ==<br />
<br />
You know, if you change a quote then it's not a quote any more. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:34, 29 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Also, fyi, quote page policy is that re-adding removed quotes requites a talk page discussion. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:36, 29 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::You're right, but considering your given reasons for that mass deletion, I didn't bother with a vote for each one, I just reduced their size and replaced. Not all of them - a couple I didn't feel should have been there to begin with, length or no.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 30 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:You didn't respond to the first issue, which is the bigger one imo. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:55, 30 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::You can't change what someone else said just because they didnt say it the way you wanted them to. If the spelling bothers you so much, then feel free to tag it with [sic], but if you change the content at all then it's not a quote any more. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Sorry, but that is, in my personal opinion, absolutely absurd. But fine - you asked for it.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:48, 30 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Arbitrary quote removal is completely supported by the current quote guidelines. You can find them on [[talk:Main Page/Quote]]. These are not guidelines that I made up on the spot or forced on anyone. They have been around for a while. This is not cause for ad-hominem attacks (actually, I can't think of any situation that ''is'') [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:13, 30 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Various disagreements ==<br />
<br />
I just wanted to say that even though you and me are disagreeing quite a bit lately, I usually agree with most of your decisions. I think you're a good, rational editor. So please don't take things personally when an argument comes up. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:44, 30 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Good rational editor. Yup.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 22:00, 30 May 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Gray_squirrel&diff=4930140d Talk:Gray squirrel2009-05-27T23:44:46Z<p>Zchris13: /* Hidden in cages? */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Hidden in cages? ==<br />
<br />
Elves may bring them too, hidden in seemingly empty cages.<br />
Really? First time I've heard anything remotely like this - could it be a bug?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:18, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Well, i was intentionally fuzzy in the wording. My bad. As far as i recall in former versions they brought vermin in small traps (hadnt played in quite a while), but now they bring them in "normal" cages and then vermin are only visible via {{K|v}}iew or, once bought, on the stockpile. Out of 7 cages i bought from the elves in 40d 3 had a (tame) vermin in it --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 23:37, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Confirmed.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Sensei&diff=48987User talk:Sensei2009-05-27T01:15:00Z<p>Zchris13: /* User Page */</p>
<hr />
<div>* When making comments on a talk page, use one more colon before each line in your comment than was used in the comment you reply to. Put exactly one empty line between comments by different users but do not use blank lines inside of a comment. If your comment has no indents, use <code><nowiki><br></nowiki></code> after each line.<br />
<br />
<br />
Welcome to the wiki. By the way, the quotes you attempted to add are not going to show up because you didn't follow directions. I didn't fix it for you, so you're welcome to come back and finish the job. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:32, 12 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
-Thanks for the heads up, it works now. I'm still not sure where the instructions you talked about are though; I had to figure out how the rand templates worked (and that i needed to sue them) for myself.<br />
:You forgot to sign your comment here, so I have no idea how long ago you wrote it. Sign comments (but not edits and material) with two dashes and four tildes, and the wiki will turn it into a user/timestamp combo thingy for you. The instructions for how to edit that page are in its discussion page -- as noted by the comment in the page itself, one line down from the lines you inserted. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:24, 18 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Ah yes, sorry, it slipped my mind at this particular posting. It was less than a week ago; and I found that it was on the talk page already. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 00:58, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===User Page===<br />
Maybe you should switch the skills the weapons use. Then start renaming stuff, until you figure out which RAW tags do the work, and the skill names to make sense. I'll take a look at it for my own mods, and tell you what I find. Although I'm sure you thought of this already.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:29, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
*[HAMMERMAN_NAME:hammerorc:hammerorcs]--->[HAMMERMAN_NAME:Orc Lasher:Orc Lashers]<br />
*[SPEARMAN_NAME:spearorcs:spearorcs]<br /><br />
This might be what you are looking for. If you swap out some of the skills that are used to the ones you can tell the orcs to use, then swap these around. These are out of the Creature Standard file.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:40, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Making them SIEGE you in fortress mode with their appropriate weapons (including my new ones) works just fine. Presently I'm trying to figure out how to make the Orcs wield their appropriate weapons when the player is playing AS them in fortress mode. It'll probaby end up in modifying something that's hard coded, unless there's a utility for this sort of thing. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 18:46, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::You assign a skill to be used. They pick up something that uses that skill. Maybe making jobs for it would work? Like mining? I think that might be possible. If you ask them to wield a sword, and whips use sword skill, they will pick up whips, right? Has anyone tested this?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 19:40, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Well if that's true, I still don't have, say, the ability to tell them whether to use a long or short sword. I certainly hope it's not the case. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 23:08, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::You probably know this, but here is a hint: it involves doors. And stations. And one tile stockpiles set to take from stockpile with very specific limits. I need to go do that now, for my dudes.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:14, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />Also they need to be set to use 2 weapons for them to pick up longswords. (ohwaitwhat? orcs. Nvm)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Sensei&diff=48986User talk:Sensei2009-05-27T01:14:05Z<p>Zchris13: /* User Page */</p>
<hr />
<div>* When making comments on a talk page, use one more colon before each line in your comment than was used in the comment you reply to. Put exactly one empty line between comments by different users but do not use blank lines inside of a comment. If your comment has no indents, use <code><nowiki><br></nowiki></code> after each line.<br />
<br />
<br />
Welcome to the wiki. By the way, the quotes you attempted to add are not going to show up because you didn't follow directions. I didn't fix it for you, so you're welcome to come back and finish the job. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:32, 12 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
-Thanks for the heads up, it works now. I'm still not sure where the instructions you talked about are though; I had to figure out how the rand templates worked (and that i needed to sue them) for myself.<br />
:You forgot to sign your comment here, so I have no idea how long ago you wrote it. Sign comments (but not edits and material) with two dashes and four tildes, and the wiki will turn it into a user/timestamp combo thingy for you. The instructions for how to edit that page are in its discussion page -- as noted by the comment in the page itself, one line down from the lines you inserted. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:24, 18 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Ah yes, sorry, it slipped my mind at this particular posting. It was less than a week ago; and I found that it was on the talk page already. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 00:58, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===User Page===<br />
Maybe you should switch the skills the weapons use. Then start renaming stuff, until you figure out which RAW tags do the work, and the skill names to make sense. I'll take a look at it for my own mods, and tell you what I find. Although I'm sure you thought of this already.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:29, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
*[HAMMERMAN_NAME:hammerorc:hammerorcs]--->[HAMMERMAN_NAME:Orc Lasher:Orc Lashers]<br />
*[SPEARMAN_NAME:spearorcs:spearorcs]<br /><br />
This might be what you are looking for. If you swap out some of the skills that are used to the ones you can tell the orcs to use, then swap these around. These are out of the Creature Standard file.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:40, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Making them SIEGE you in fortress mode with their appropriate weapons (including my new ones) works just fine. Presently I'm trying to figure out how to make the Orcs wield their appropriate weapons when the player is playing AS them in fortress mode. It'll probaby end up in modifying something that's hard coded, unless there's a utility for this sort of thing. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 18:46, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::You assign a skill to be used. They pick up something that uses that skill. Maybe making jobs for it would work? Like mining? I think that might be possible. If you ask them to wield a sword, and whips use sword skill, they will pick up whips, right? Has anyone tested this?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 19:40, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Well if that's true, I still don't have, say, the ability to tell them whether to use a long or short sword. I certainly hope it's not the case. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 23:08, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::You probably know this, but here is a hint: it involves doors. And stations. And one tile stockpiles set to take from stockpile with very specific limits. I need to go do that now, for my dudes.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:14, 27 May 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:AtomicPaperclip&diff=49275User talk:AtomicPaperclip2009-05-27T00:37:44Z<p>Zchris13: </p>
<hr />
<div>== contents of a rock/soil ==<br />
<br />
Hey - The data in the wiki is 90% from examination of the game code, and 10% observational. The lists of what ores/gems/other stones appear in what layers is purely from the game code. (I made the same mistake when I first landed.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:10, 27 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Technically not "code", exactly, but part of the game "data".--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:37, 27 May 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Vermin&diff=2555840d Talk:Vermin2009-05-26T00:06:04Z<p>Zchris13: ELVES!!!! bjoipsa!</p>
<hr />
<div>Can someone put a list of all the vermin, and their uses if caught? And a picture? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 21:55, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
:What would be the use of the picture? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 00:24, 12 November 2007 (EST)<br />
::Just to clarify in case the first poster didn't know, vermin all use the same image. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 09:13, 12 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::Not quite. Lungfish vermin, for instance, use a fish-like symbol, worms use a tilde, etc. However, most do use the simple "large dot" graphic. --[[User:JT|JT]] 16:30, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I just listed them all, with most pertinent information. Hope you like. Now someone should go list all the extracts. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:08, 26 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== un tameable vermin ==<br />
<br />
Fire snakes when caught in an animal trap had a value of 1. I was unable to tame them and the announcement "needs tameable small creature item" appeared. --[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 14:18, 23 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
In addition to that, they keep disappearing from cages and small animal traps on me. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:28, 12 December 2008 (EST)<br />
: You need the [[Dungeon Master]] to tame as they are PET_EXOTIC. I also have the suspicion they are burning their way out of wooden traps every so often, but can't prove it. I think they burned a barrel once, leaving the contents behind. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 08:01, 14 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Had Dungeon Master. I trapped one in an animal trap, then moved it into a cage with a lot of other animals. Saw that it was there. Did some other things and when I looked again it was no longer in the cage, but the cage was most definitely still there. (Cage was also metal, but its continued existence on its own sort of ruled out the possibility that it burned). They were making a mess of my metal bar bins by turning them to ash, which was why I was trapping them in the first place. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:31, 14 January 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::If I had to guess, it's possible that a dwarf decided to eat it. I've caught my dwarves eating vermin out of my cages, sometimes, even if they aren't starving. Some dwarves just like to eat weird things, I suppose. It seems odd that a dwarf would eat something that can set things on fire, but I've never seen anything to indicate that they can't. --[[User:Xennith|Xennith]] 7:34, 27 February 2009 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Creating vermin habitat ==<br />
<br />
I know you can make vermin show up to your base (try a tundra biome with an aquifer - if the stuff belowground stays liquid you can have toads hopping around in the snow :S. Also, I dug out some open cliffside dwellings in a random jungle map, and 5 min later about 50 or so bats turn up singing Meatloaf, and causing miasma hell for my dwarves after they were (mostly) dispatched by my two cats :(. Can anyone else replicate these (or other) situations to confirm my hypothesis? --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 04:21, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Apparently vermin (and everything else?) spawn by biome. So, if you dig into a cave biome, you'll get bats. I dug next to a chasm and suddenly cave spiders spawn in my tunnel. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 22:37, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I started a fortress in the freezing tundra, no life there except my dwarves, wild musk-oxen, wild elk and the inhabitants of the magma-pipe. But as soon as I pumped some water into a cave one level beneath the surface, turtles started to spawn near the self-made underground pool. So apparently even a self-made pool of water is sufficient for pool-vermin ([[toad|toads]] and [[turtle|turtles]]) to make them spawn. --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 16:02, 9 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Tameable? ==<br />
<br />
There should be a list of -- or mark on -- tameable vermin.<br />
<br />
At the very least, there should be a mention that only some can be tamed.<br />
<br />
Currently, I know rats can be tamed, while fire snakes and two-legged rhino lizards cannot.<br />
<br />
I have a tame fire snake. I'm pretty sure all non-fish vermin creatures are tameable. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 19:36, 5 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
:fire snakes and rhino lizards can be tamed, they are just [PET_EXOTIC]. not all non-fish vermin can be tamed(flies cant for example), and some fish vermin can be(turtles). -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 20:22, 5 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
Is there a way to get my dwarves to stop eating the fluffy wamblers before I can tame them? Apparently they taste like meat and saltwater taffy had a baby. Or something. (Maybe I just have to be pretty quick on handing my DM the task) [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 22:37, 6 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:Not without a lot of micro-management. Even being quick to assign the task isn't enough, the dwarves will just snatch it right out of his hand. However, if you follow your trapper around as he's searching, and immediately forbid the vermin when he catches it (note: the vermin, not the trap), that'll prevent your dwarves from eating it. This works because eating requires the vermin itself to be unforbidden, but taming only requires that the animal trap is available. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 19:31, 21 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Corpse patrol ==<br />
<br />
alright I guess this is just a winge...<br />
<br />
is there any order to set (or anything else I can do) to get my dwarves to clean up vermin corpses without me manually marking them for dumping?<br />
<br />
I guess I'm looking for an order: Autodump vermin corpses or something.<br />
I know if I {{k|k}}{{k|d}} each corpse then it gets dumped pretty quick, but especially once my population goes up I'd like to not worry so much about miasma in the dining room.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 08:23, 21 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
: AFAIK dead vermin will be automatically placed in a refuse stockpile, so long as 'Dwarves gather refuse' is selected in the refuse options menu ({{k|o}}{{k|r}}) --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 19:15, 21 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
:: This seems to be what is happening now that I actually have some peasants wandering around on cleaning/food hauling/refuse hauling only... so it sounds like vermin corpses are a lesser priority for picking up for refuse haulers then items marked for dumping are.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:27, 22 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== repopulation ==<br />
<br />
The [[turtle]] article states:<br />
:Like most fish, they can be harvested too aggressively, and become depleted until the next '''repopulating of vermin'''<br />
I added the bold bit... when does repopulating of vermin occur? Randomly? At spring (on a date) or during thaw (if there is one?) or differently by biome?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:06, 9 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Vermin respawn on season changes, along with refuse erasure and limb-mending, if I remember correctly. May be wrong, though. [[User:Iituem|Iituem]] 21:37, 5 Aug 2008 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Flies... ==<br />
<br />
Is there anyway to kill flies?<br />
<br />
I second this question! :) Is there anyway to kill these things? [[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 16:34, 5 August 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Cats can kill them. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:13, 9 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Rats ==<br />
<br />
According to my animal and vermin list when I access cages, I have a "Live Rat" somewhere in my fortress that I don't recall ever catching. I've tried to install it into a placed "vermin cage" but it never shows up. I've asked my Trainer to tame it, but the task cancels itself and the rat never surfaces. Has some dwarf been carrying around a rat in his pockets for the last three years and refuses to give it up? --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 15:49, 17 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Already tamed ==<br />
<br />
I was checking my animal screen and I noticed I had a tamed lizard. I have not trained any animals or even built a kennel nor have I built any small animal traps. Does anybody know how that may have happened.--[[User:Cerol The Elf Hunter|Cerol The Elf Hunter]] 21:47, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:The elves. It was the Elves.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:06, 26 May 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Bob&diff=48887User talk:Bob2009-05-25T18:57:01Z<p>Zchris13: P.S.</p>
<hr />
<div>== Furniture Weight ==<br />
I was looking into what furniture type to train my masons. I wanted to use the lightest thing so that I could dump (compact) or trade quicker.<br />
<br />
Using Slate as my stone:<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|-<br />
! Furniture<br />
! Weight<br />
|-<br />
| armor stand<br />
| 667<br />
|-<br />
| blocks<br />
| 667<br />
|-<br />
| throne<br />
| 667<br />
|-<br />
| coffin<br />
| 934<br />
|-<br />
| door<br />
| 667<br />
|-<br />
| floodgate<br />
| 1068<br />
|-<br />
| hatch cover<br />
| 564<br />
|-<br />
| grate<br />
| 534<br />
|-<br />
| cabinet<br />
| 667<br />
|-<br />
| coffer<br />
| 267<br />
|-<br />
| statue<br />
| 801<br />
|-<br />
| table<br />
| 667<br />
|-<br />
| weapon rack<br />
| 667<br />
|-<br />
| quern<br />
| 267<br />
|-<br />
| millstone<br />
| 267<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
* mechanisms 267 (just a note, mechanisms aren't made in a mason's shop don't train masonry, incase you might think otherwise. [[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:09, 8 May 2009 (UTC))<br />
--[[User:Bob|Bob]] 16:45, 8 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Things I've Learned Melting Ice ==<br />
My current local map is entirely on a haunted glacier biome with no aquifer, so I've learned about melting ice for water.<br />
Some of this is contrary to what's on the Ice page and in talk. When I am happy with this here, I'll move it there.<br />
<br />
Things I've learned about ice:<br />
* "Subterranean" is not enough to keep ice melted (although mined out subterranean seems to work)<br />
* Ice on a rock floor 1 z-level above magma will melt<br />
* Ice above/touching a warm tile will not melt<br />
* Water above a "warm" tile touching a magma tile n/s/e/w/u/d will not freeze<br />
* Ice a z-level below magma will melt<br />
<br />
<br />
====Comments:====<br />
Very good, man. Good to know. I plan on doing my next fortress on one of those. New research is always appreciated.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:56, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br>P.S. I know nothing about this</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Bob&diff=48886User talk:Bob2009-05-25T18:56:28Z<p>Zchris13: Commendation</p>
<hr />
<div>== Furniture Weight ==<br />
I was looking into what furniture type to train my masons. I wanted to use the lightest thing so that I could dump (compact) or trade quicker.<br />
<br />
Using Slate as my stone:<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|-<br />
! Furniture<br />
! Weight<br />
|-<br />
| armor stand<br />
| 667<br />
|-<br />
| blocks<br />
| 667<br />
|-<br />
| throne<br />
| 667<br />
|-<br />
| coffin<br />
| 934<br />
|-<br />
| door<br />
| 667<br />
|-<br />
| floodgate<br />
| 1068<br />
|-<br />
| hatch cover<br />
| 564<br />
|-<br />
| grate<br />
| 534<br />
|-<br />
| cabinet<br />
| 667<br />
|-<br />
| coffer<br />
| 267<br />
|-<br />
| statue<br />
| 801<br />
|-<br />
| table<br />
| 667<br />
|-<br />
| weapon rack<br />
| 667<br />
|-<br />
| quern<br />
| 267<br />
|-<br />
| millstone<br />
| 267<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
* mechanisms 267 (just a note, mechanisms aren't made in a mason's shop don't train masonry, incase you might think otherwise. [[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:09, 8 May 2009 (UTC))<br />
--[[User:Bob|Bob]] 16:45, 8 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Things I've Learned Melting Ice ==<br />
My current local map is entirely on a haunted glacier biome with no aquifer, so I've learned about melting ice for water.<br />
Some of this is contrary to what's on the Ice page and in talk. When I am happy with this here, I'll move it there.<br />
<br />
Things I've learned about ice:<br />
* "Subterranean" is not enough to keep ice melted (although mined out subterranean seems to work)<br />
* Ice on a rock floor 1 z-level above magma will melt<br />
* Ice above/touching a warm tile will not melt<br />
* Water above a "warm" tile touching a magma tile n/s/e/w/u/d will not freeze<br />
* Ice a z-level below magma will melt<br />
<br />
<br />
====Comments:====<br />
Very good, man. Good to know. I plan on doing my next fortress on one of those. New research is always appreciated.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:56, 25 May 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Armor&diff=2489540d Talk:Armor2009-05-25T18:54:08Z<p>Zchris13: misunderstanding of how WTML and HTML interface</p>
<hr />
<div>==Boots==<br />
Corrected the matter with low and high boots. If you look at the raws you can see that the armor level of both boot types are the same and thus they can both be used as chain and plate armor. My games have proved this to me. Only real difference between the two boot types is that the high boot is heavier and protects more of the body than just the feet. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 05:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==clothes layers==<br />
Does anyone know the rules of where you can wear each piece of armor? For example, can you wear a high boot and leggings? or only low boots with leggings? Do you need to make two boots? --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 20:30, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
: You can wear high boots with leggings. Leggings and high boots have different layers. --[[User:JT|JT]] 17:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
On a similar note, what's the difference between steel leggings and steel greaves? I would've thought leggings would cover below the knee as well. Do I need both to provide maximum Xtreme protection? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:17, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
: As far as I can tell, greaves are the Plate class upgrade to leggings, which are Chain class lower body armor. Unlike upper body armor however, dwarves don't appear to be able to wear both leggings and greaves at once and will drop their leggings in favour of a set of greaves when set to Plate armor. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 14:03, 25 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Protection values==<br />
I would like to know if it's possible to find out the various protection values of different types of armor. For example, we know the material and quality modifiers for armor, but not, say, how much better plate mail protects you than chain. Or whether greaves or high boots offer more coverage.<br />
I ask because I'm wondering if, with high quality modifiers, [[adamantine]] ''clothing'' is viable protection for those who aren't wearing armor. Certainly, it'd make a good halfway measure for those who can't do magma smelting yet, but ''can'' get a Craftsdwarf's Workshop, Loom, and Clothesmaker's Workshop set up to extract the threads, weave them, and make clothes. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:48, 13 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Soldier==<br />
<br />
I think some of this article, specifically that stuff in the Using armor section, should be moved over to an article more dedicated to soldier preferences. As it is, it's describing everything about arming civilians with weapons instead of simply talking about armoring civilians; that content seems more appropriate for an article about soldiers or the hunting article. --[[User:JT|JT]] 17:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Verified==<br />
<br />
I can verify that whan setting dwarves to chain, they wear gauntlets --[[User:Nog|Nog]] 16:21, 12 November 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Table ==<br />
<br />
I added a Materials Needed section to the table. Is this OK? --[[User:Nanor|Nanor]] 19 December 2007<br />
<br />
:Excellent idea. It looked a little odd in the table, so I moved it to the text instead. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 16:47, 19 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:: Much better! Thanks! --[[User:Nanor|Nanor]] 17:50, 19 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
== 23.130.23a ==<br />
<br />
We had much more info on armor in the [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Armor old wiki]. Could someone with an account there bring the relevant bits over? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Edit: Ported over most information; change anything that isn't correct.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 13:06, 26 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Leather Armor re: Caps and Helms ==<br />
<br />
A soldier set to leather armor can wear leather helms, not just caps, and they'll wear a cap at the same time underneath (at least, if it's silk. I haven't confirmed yet if a soldier will wear a leather cap + a leather helm; doesn't really matter). This is a good thing because helms (according to the old wiki) have higher Block. They're heavier too but this shouldn't be a problem. --[[User:Stromko|Stromko]] 19:57:15 (PST), January 06 2007<br />
<br />
:In the old versions, the materials of the armor pieces were irrelevant, regardless of the fact that the lowest armor level is called "leather". Leather and chain wearers would wear any kind of legging or boot, and a plate wearer would wear even a pig tail helm, if they happened to come across one, showing no preference for better material types or quality. Has this changed, or does the table in this article contain some wrong assumptions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:42, 7 January 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
::I seem to recall that 'light' materials like cloth, shell, and bone effectively 'downgraded' armor by one level, weighed half as much, and were 50% of the maximum effectiveness per their type. However! I can see right now in my current fortress a steel cap is 78 pounds and a cave spider silk cap is 13 pounds. This shows not all old information is correct. <br />
<br />
Furthermore, bone and shell doesn't become a 'lighter' class. Shell Gauntlets require Chain or above to be assigned, and Turtle Bone Greaves go un-used until a dwarf is set to Plate.<br />
<br />
However, I /can/ confirm from this very fortress I'm looking at right now, that dwarves assigned to leather went to pick up and wear Leather Helms. Unless, that is, they already have metal Caps. I'm looking at a marksdwarf right now assigned to wear Leather who has a Steel Cap, a pig tail hood (they all have hoods), and no helm. Everybody else has a leather helm.<br />
<br />
I should note my fortress has no metal helms lying around, nor does it have spare metal caps, so I'm unable to verify that dwarves set to Leather wouldn't wear metal Helms or preferentially choose caps (they'd probably choose /either/ Metal Caps or Leather Helms if given a choice). However, I'm pretty sure they would not. Therefore, it is my understanding that they make a distinction between different material types. --[[User:Stromko|Stromko]] 03:22 (PST), January 07 2007<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Shields and Bucklers ==<br />
<br />
Hmm it states here that dwarves can wear BOTH shields and bucklers, however in soldiering screen you can select EITHER shield OR buckler, but NOT both. Does this part of article apply to Adv. mode only? Could someone verify, please? --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 18:21, 24 February 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
I would guess the trick is to tell them to use bucklers first, waiting til they pick one up, then telling them to use shields, at which point they'll pick up a shield without dropping the buckler first. Like how you can get dwarves to wear a leather armour, chain mail, and plate on top all at the same time if you set them to leather, then chain, then plate. [[User:Furiousfish|Furiousfish]] 20:54, 6 March 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Natural Selection ==<br />
<br />
Being a bit of a nooblet, and not having much war in any of my fortresses, I'm confused as to how armor selection works. <br />
<br />
Would I be correct if I said "Setting a dwarf to wear Plate armor will cause him to grab plate whenever and wherever possible, but substitute leather, chain, or bone wherever no plate is available. So, for example, if my metalsmiths never make helms, but my leatherworker has caps and helms galore, they'll wear plate armor and a leather helm. Right? If so, this should probably be mentioned. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 19:24, 28 February 2008 (EST)<br />
:I've found that a dwarf set to wear plate will grab the best available armor. More puzzling is that they will sometimes stack armor; IE dwarves wearing plate mail and chain mail at the same time. However, I never keep a stock of leather armor, so I wouldn't know if it can be used in conjunction with metal armor.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 22:29 21 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
::The dwarves seem to be notorious for pulling on a full suit of armour ie chain-then-plate, there's a reason a fort I made (whose metal industry relies on eg [[coal]] and [[lignite]]) is making all chain-mail, crossbows and shields to defend against gobbo raids ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 09:13, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
Just wanted to point out that leather armor and plate can't be put on together.<br />
<br />
== Gloves ==<br />
My military is set to wear Leather armor, but they don't take leather gloves. High boots, leggings, armor and helmets are used OK. Is the article data incorrect?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:51, 15 April 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Some equipment is unavaliable for dwarf use because it is the incorrect size. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:40, 3 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
My guess is that your dwarves are already wearing cloth gloves. This is considered clothing level armor, the same level as leather gloves. They see no reason to switch armor when the leather gloves provide the same "level of protection." I think your best bet would be to dump their cloth gloves, if you're that worried about them. You can always reclaim them later. --[[User:PrettyGrizzly|PrettyGrizzly]] 11:00, 4 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Artifacts ==<br />
<br />
This has an excellent table defining the bonuses for quality/materials, but completely excludes artifact modifiers. I would assume that these would always be the best, regardless, of material, but I just found myself with a rhesus macaque leather shield and don't know if I should use it in place of, oh, I don't know, a more ''steel'' one.<br />
:Currently, the exact modifier for artifact quality seems to be unknown. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 18:27, 30 September 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==Fort-mode equipment quirks==<br />
<br />
The edit I just made was prompted by seeing a dwarf wearing ''twelve'' cloaks, and remembering the "cannot wear cloaks" phrase mentioned in the pre-edit version of the bit below the giant table. I tried to reconcile the two statements that were already there, particularly in light of said cloak-happy dwarf. However, there's also one thing I'm wondering about: is the number of equipped items partially determined by what order they're put on in fortress mode? I ''think'' it is, but am not sure, so I decided not to include that. If it's the case, however, I think it'd be worth mentioning along with the cloaks part (even in the old version of the page, should somebody decide to revert my edit or something). --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 20:23, 6 July 2008 (EDT)<br />
:Dungeon masters wear nothing but 12 colors of cloaks and mittens. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 13:07, 23 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Over Under Armor Cover ==<br />
<br />
Besides sounding like a Daft Punk chorus, these are four LAYER values. I know what Over and Under do with respect to each other: You can't wear Under on top of Over. Do the others follow the same pattern, are they all ordered? Is there some more mysterious effect for "Cover" and "Armor"? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 01:04, 27 November 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Decorating Armor ==<br />
Wasn't sure whether to ask this here or under gem setter - is it not possible to get a gem setter to decorate armor? I know leather armor can receive images and bone/shell decorations (and presumably the bone/shell applies to metal as well), I can't fathom why you can't put gems on suits of armor given that.... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:44, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:AFAIK no, it isn't possible to decorate armor or weapons. That's one of the more frequently requested additions on the forums.[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:33, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
::It is, however, possible to acquire armor already decorated with gems via trade with a caravan. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:09, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:::Said armor would unlikely to be masterwork, nor with masterwork decorations. Nor would it be made of adamantine. I'm afraid its no real supplement. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:35, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
::::Oh, sure, if you want to, like, *survive*. Instead of look pretty. Where are your priorities? :) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:50, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
:::::I want to survive *and* look pretty. When faced with a choice of two appealing options, the correct choice is obviously 'yes'. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:01, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
::::::I suppose you have a point. Oh, well, back to [[Decoration|Stud with platinum]]. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 19:25, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Markdwarves only work with bucklers?!?! ==<br />
<br />
I guess that makes sense since historically, bucklers were made to strap to the forearm and allow archers to use their bows...<br />
<br />
Anyway, it seems my markdwarves don't like it when I make them use a shield. They stop carrying ammunition and won't practice shooting when off duty.<br />
<br />
Is this the reason or is something else going on? Anyway, if it is indeed the case that markdwarves don't work with shields, it deserves mention, right?<br />
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 13:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's unclear, for this reason: ThreeToe has stated, point blank, that '''"The two handed code is broken right now... the crossbow is always two handed."''' So it's unclear if a marksdwarf ever actually uses a shield or buckler if they're holding a crossbow - they might be using it 2 handed in melee as well (and I more than suspect they are). <br />
<br />
:The way you suspect it to work is, I'd guess, the way it's ''supposed'' to work... whether that has anything to do with the way it ''does'' work is another guess.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 14:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I've found that the best way is not to assign a buckler/shield at all. They then will use the free hand to carry practice bolts while off duty, while keeping metal bolts in the quiver for use at a moments notice. I suppose if the dwarf was done training, then you could assign a buckler.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 19:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== ARMOR ARTICLE SPLIT/COMBINING?==<br />
<br />
[[Leather Armor]], should have it's own page. It is an item, like platemail.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:22, 23 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I've been thinking about the "armour" category in general - every different item does not need its very own page. What is there to say about "leather armour" (the item, not the suit)? Look at [[low boot]], or [[leggings]] vs. [[greaves]] - waste of time to have to go to a diff page for each, and it currently takes ''how many'' to get a full picture of "armour"? Isn't this the type of thing that can be all combined into one more useful page?<br />
::*Armor - general <br />
::*Suits of Armor - the 5 basic parts<br />
:::*of leather<br />
:::*of chain<br />
:::*of plate<br />
:*layering<br />
:*known quirks and bugs<br />
:Maybe one page with all pieces, and then another (this) with all the misc information.[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I'm thinking of something more along the lines of a page for the different sets, combining the different separate pages for each item of armor.<br />
<br />
:::There is a discussion about this page on a user talk page. ''Please discuss the Armor page here.'' And please state any problems or conflicts with the Armor page, so they can be evaluated and discussed.<br />
:::Personally, I have few problems with the page. But then I pretty much know everything the page states, and while I like the comprehensive, factual style of the page it may not be the best style for educating new players. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 14:12, 24 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
(DELETED COMMENTS ON OVER-ENTHUSIASM. Non-relevant now. We move forward.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Improving comprehension===<br />
<br />
I think the larger point (echoed from posts above) is that, as is, the article makes sense to those who understand it - but isn't optimized for those who don't. There are 3 general problems that I perceive with the articles (plural) as they stand, and those same 3 areas I'd like to see addressed:<br />
:* Scattered information - too many stub articles about individual armour pieces or one tiny facet of "armour".<br />
:* No clean, unified "This all you need (to know) for leather armor", "This what you need (to know) for chain armor" (sub)articles.<br />
:* This article is already borderline too long. Info is getting lost, readers are getting boggled - need a concept split between basic vs. advanced (or something sim). There are 11 sections, w/ some hefty sub-sections - that's too many by half.<br />
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(And I think we have to concede that answering the rather arcane question of ''"How does it work, EXACTLY?"'' will be an ongoing process, I'm afraid.)<br />
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Spotting problems is easy and cheap - solving them is the tough part. A user wants "all" relevant information in front of them, and not much more - and that'll be diff for each user. But I think we can take a stab at a generally applicable organization. I'd suggest this (as a starting point for this process, ~if~ it's agreed it needs to be addressed) -<br />
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2 articles; #1 deals w/ armor at face value for those not interested in the details (what each piece is, how they fit together into suits, how a dwarf puts them on, what craft/shop builds what), and #2 deals with the numbers for the number crunchers and optimizers (repetition of quality/material tables, damblock numbers, and all that issue.) For those Players who are comfortable in the simple (and correct) assumption that chain armour is "better" than leather, the first page gives them all they need to know (perhaps w/ hints & links beyond). For those who need more (a little or a lot), they go to the second page, where they'll find the Protection and Weight tables, and all the details that are teased slowly from the tags and RAW's.<br />
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Off the top of my head, I'd call the first page "Armor Guide" (fitting into Category: Guide) - all current "armor" articles would redirect to that one, at least. The second (advanced) article might be titled something like "Armor details" or "Armor values" or "Armor explained", and have all the stuff that boggles the unprepared. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I think the creation of armor belongs somewhere else in the wiki. The types of armor should be defined first, with all the exceptions and rules explained in a single article. Another article on the way the pieces layer on top of each other, and a final section of the second article for the defense bonuses of each item and the coverage, and all the other good and juicy technical things.<br />The current layout is two biased towards traditional thinking, and is like trying to push the triangle block into the circle hole in those toys for tykes. It just doesn't fit the technicality that is dwarf fortress.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:53, 25 May 2009 (UTC)</div>Zchris13