Difference between revisions of "40d Talk:Strange mood"

Revision as of 16:28, 15 February 2010

Toady's Dwarf Talk on Artifacts

Toady just did a long dwarf talk which focused a bit on artifacts, there's a paragraph about 1/4 of the way down on the factors governing the limit as to how many artifacts may be made. Apparently embarking on a larger site allows you to make more artifacts. [1] I believe this is for DF 2010.

After the first one it gets a little more complicated. The contributing factors after that ... It's no longer population, you have to have a dwarf available who hasn't made an artifact already ... and it looks at the items made, just how many items have you made in all of your workshops and any other way that it might happen - I think maybe even mined out stone counts - and then it takes that number and divides it by two hundred, and then it looks at your floor space, and evaluates how many unhidden squares there are, and divides that by some number - I think it's every two thousand unhidden squares, including the wilderness, so you get a starting buffer - and then it caps the items made by that so it's really the minimum of the items made and your floor space, except you need items made; floor space itself doesn't do it for you, but the items made gets compared to the floor space and it takes the smallest one, or it caps it, or whatever. In any case, it then subtracts the number of artifacts you've already made. So say you had, for instance, six hundred items made, divided by two hundred you get three, so that's three artifact credit; you've made enough items so that you can make three items. And let's say that you only had four thousand floor space, so divided by two thousand, that's two, so you actually only have two artifact credits. And say you've already made an artifact, now you have one artifact credit, so it goes ahead and lets you make an artifact. Then the next time it goes through if you haven't changed anything then you'd have no artifact credits left. Now this assumes that the artifact gets created successfully, so it's not like you're using up your chances or anything.

Richards 16:26, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Detailed strange mood mechanics

see post VengefulDonut 14:02, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

& updated to include more/all of same. Also re-organized presentation to better fit expanded sub-sections.--Albedo 13:47, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Now that we know so much about the mechanics of strange moods, what do you all think about moving that section to the bottom and protecting it with a "massive spoilers" warning the way thoughts are?
—0x517A5D 19:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Works for me 100%. It would require a slight rewording/reworking of the "skills & workshops" subsection, for overall flow, perhaps splitting that info into the obvious and the not-so-obvious, to bridge the info leading into the "demands" subsection. --Albedo 20:15, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

As long as it mentions that it has spoilers its perfect--Loganis 20:41, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

misc

Have you marked all statements in the article that risks being falsified with {{verify}}? --Mizipzor 19:41, 6 November 2007 (EST)

About the engravers taking over craftdwarf's shops and becoming legendary engravers afterwards is quite true. I recently got a bunch of immigrants, and the engraver that came with them fell into a strange mood before even crossing the bridge on my river. He took over a craftdwarf's workshop and made a basalt scepter, and now he's legendary level in engraving. So yeah, perfect laboratory conditions, he was 100% engraver when he went into his mood and came out a legendary engraver. --Zhang5 17:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)

It seems that no craft skill is required. I just had a peasant go into a strange mood. His skills were: competent marksdwarf; novice wrestler; novice armor wearer. He grabbed a craftsdwarf's workshop and 10 items (3xFelsite, Schorls, Tigereyes, Red Beryls, Giant cave swallow leather, Grizzly Bear Leather, Rough harlequin opals and Ash logs -- guess he has expensive taste?) and churned out an idol in relatively short order. This is my 9th successful mood in this fortress, and I've seen requests for between 3 and 10 items, personally. Since they seem to be increasing in complexity, I've either hit the item cap, or I'm about to break ten :) Doctorlucky 16:34, 19 November 2007 (EST)

This is consistent with older versions. Moody peasants would become crafters, and 10 items was the cap. The minimum was 1 item -- generally when constructing a "perfect gem".--Maximus 16:55, 19 November 2007 (EST)

I had a miner go into a strange mood, take over a mason's workshop, and make a something that got him up to legendary miner status. In my current fort, I have had 6 artifacts made, 2 of which were actual moods and 5 of which were possessions (I can add, one of them failed and the dwarf became a babbling wreck). My dwarves love to use only one item: an oak door (1 item), an olivine coffin (2 items), a turtle shell mask (1 item and is my cheapest artifiact at 3600), a diorite amulet (3 items), and a perfect jelly opal (1 item). --Penguinofhonor 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)

I had dwarf Miller, profecienty Grower who had Fey Mood, and he became a Legendary Mason .... Is it normal ? Feydreva

Glassmaker and Glass Furnace bug

I had a Glassmaker that sat around when I had a lot of Magma Glass Furnaces, but then decided to get going when I made a regular Glass Furnace. Seems like they will only use a specific kind. Not sure yet if it's random. Might be they won't take the Magma Glass Furnace in version 38a. Can anyone verify? --Afbee 05:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

My Glassmaker successfully used Magma Glass Furnace in a fey mood. --Digger 07:54, 24 February 2008 (EST)

I just had the same problem. I had a glass maker who wouldn't take over a magma glass furnace. Since I'm creating a glass fortress and had a mess of glass orders piled up, I thought that might have confused the AI and I built 2 more magma glass furnaces. No dice, he didn't want them. After reading this page I decided to create a normal glass furnace. He snapped it up as soon as it was built. --Alkyon 04:07, 9 November 2008 (EST)

I had the exact same experience as Alkyon, namely I had lots of magma glass furnaces but they wanted a normal one. Anybody else confirm what Digger has experienced?--Kwieland 17:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

This has been observed countless times with magma forges vs standard forges - no reason to expect it should be any diff w/ glass furnaces.--Albedo 23:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

In my experience (all with 40d), all of my metalsmiths claim my magma forges (I always deconstruct the non-magma ones), but all of my glassmakers seem to insist on non-magma glass furnaces, forcing me to build one for them and then remember to deconstruct it after the mood completes (so my manager doesn't start allocating fuel-consuming glassmaking tasks to it). --Quietust 19:59, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I can verify that glassmakers refuse to use magma glass furnaces, but will claim non-magma ones. I had 2 glassmakers, the first one died because he did not find a non-magma glass furnace, the second one refused as well to use the magma one, so i built him a non-magma-furnace which he instantly claimed. --Arni

Maximum number of artifacts

Well, I just got my umpteenth mood, and it resulted in the 16th successfully created artifact.(33b) So that 15 cap thing is clearly wrong. As it happens, this single artifact is worth 754,800, and is an adamantine spear decorated with, among other things, adamantine. For the record, in case this data is important to someone tabulating number of ingredients, my moods in order created the following objects using the corresponding number of ingredients: (Flute, 4; Mechanism, 4; Spear, 3; Millstone, 6; Ring, 8; Chest, 7; Cape, 7; Ring, 9; Statue, 8; Idol, 10; earring, 8; Buckler, 8; Table, 3; Mechanism, 10; Bracelet, 5; and Spear, 8). Doctorlucky 04:54, 27 November 2007 (EST)

Do fell/macabre moods still exist? I haven't seen any for quite a few versions. It'd be nice to have that verified.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Rabek (talk•contribs)

Yes, those moods still exist.

clarification on "trade" skills

Are trade skills all the skills that produce items with some level of quality? Mainly I want to know if dyer is a trade skill. And how does that work with miner? I didn't think miner was a trade skill. Maybe someone who knows more than me could clarify in the wiki. I just got my first artifact. It's worth 2400. The dwarf took one log and made a scepter. -Radtse

I don't know exactly, we should make a list of the skills we know are not trade skills. I'll start: my brewer/grower once got a strange mood and made a wood item and gained woodcrafting skill. Let's try to only add to the list when we have experienced a moody dwarf with that skill only.--Valdemar 19:36, 27 December 2007 (EST)

I'm adding Weaver and Furnace Operator to this list, since they're on the wiki. I haven't seen them myself, but I'm assuming someone else has. Knowing that Furnace Operator is a "fey-able" skill will be quite helpful.-Radtse 18:28, 29 December 2007 (EST)

Where's cooking fit in? --KittenyKat 20:09, 6 January 2008 (EST)

List of non-trade skills:

Skills that may be used and gained by dwarves with no trade skills:

Skills that use a different skill(See list above), but give correct skill:

For the record, i can confirm both Furnace Operator and Weaver, since no one else has commented to verify them thus far. (The weaver actually surprised me when it happened). --Squirrelloid 01:43, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

I can confirm that a Miner will claim a Mason's shop, and produce a stone item, even with no Mason skill at all. It works just like the wiki says. --Strangething 23:47, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

And I can confirm that Wood Cutter does not contribute -- I had a Novice Glassmaker/No Prefix Wood Cutter take a glass furnace. Slitherrr 13:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

mood condition

The 20 dwarves / no crazy stuff has been found while looking at the binary of v0.27.169.33d, might be different now, but i don't think so. Bartavelle 15:08, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Regarding the calulations for required maximum existing artifacts (items/200 and dugout/(48*48)) wouldn't it make more sense to either use the squared symbol, or the actual result of that square (which was the original number actually discovered/revealed I believe)? --Edward 19:17, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

<sup>2</sup> --GreyMario 21:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

20 dorf must be still there. I've made low-population fort and I had no mood for ~8 years (from start). I'm sure that I've digged at least 2700 tiles and created at least 300 items. I will test if raising population to 20 will cause moods. I think that 20 dwarf limit should be mentioned even if it's not confirmed. --Someone-else 18:30, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

Random Workshop Seizure

I just had a gem cutter seize a carpenter's workshop and make a perfect gem; upon completion I had a worthless Legendary dwarf and a new jeweler's workshop, so I guess that's still in from the previous version. I've removed the verify in the article. Tacroy 16:51, 9 January 2008 (EST)

nonsense. Should be a bigger chance of making ZOMG high-quality gem crafts now ;) --Frostedfire 07:35, 18 February 2008 (EST)

More to the point, if you don't like the profession your dwarf has Legendary in...draft for the stats! --Alfador 12:16, 18 February 2008 (EST)

forbidden items

Do moody dwarfs use forbidden items? Will they demand forbid items? Diabl0658 02:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

I don't know whether moody dwarves will use forbidden items (my guess would be they won't). But they don't choose the demands based on what is on the map, they can and do demand things you don't have. So it's safe to assume forbidding doesn't prevent dwarves from demanding the forbidden kind of item. --BahamutZERO 16:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Forbidden items are not used. Similarly, if your mooder slipped in e.g. an iron bar when you wanted him to use a platinum bar, you can forbid AND dump the item to stop him from using it. --GreyMaria 16:35, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Impossible Requests?

Will dwarves try to use items that you just don't have access to? I had a dwarf asking for silk when I haven't imported any and I'm pretty sure there isn't a giant spider anywhere. Also asking for "rocks" when I have mined at least one of each type of rock that is visible (requiring rocks from unmined areas seem pretty harsh). Also a request for "metal bars" when I have smeltered at least one of each ore I have found and made at least one of each possible alloy. Yvain 23:27, 26 February 2008 (EST)

Yeah, impossible stuff is all my dwarves ever want. :-P Right now mine appears to want stone I don't have, and no traders have come by with any stone.... So my guys are frantically mining in various directions.... Holyfool 13:59, 7 March 2008 (EST)

As far as i can tell they never request anything it is truly impossible for you to get. Available by trade seems to imply possible for the game engine though. Too bad if its the start of winter (which is when all my moods which require things I don't have and can't produce happen, of course). But if there's no sand on your map at all you will not be asked for glass, since you can't trade for sand. (If there's 5 tiles of sand under that underground lake you haven't found yet... sucks to be you - my first fortress lost 3 dwarves to this). So yes, requiring things present on the map that you haven't found yet appears to be possible and routine. --Squirrelloid 01:48, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

gems

My moody dwarf asked for 2 kinds of rough gems, but i had cut all rough ones at that point. So i "printed out" all layers and started checking for leftover gems in the walls. Guess what, he picked the first 2 kinds i mined. So either

random/pure luck (don't think so)
they only ask what they "see"
they only ask what is somehow on the map
or they might even adapt somewhat to availability, but i doubt that. --Koltom 15:59, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

I believe, but don't know for sure, that sometimes they want specific items and sometimes they just want anything in a category of items, such as any rough gems in this case. It used to work that way in the 2d version, didn't it? --BahamutZERO 12:23, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

Confirming behaviour that BahamutZERO sees. Dwarves will always grab the closest object that falls under the category unless he is requesting a specific metal, specific silk, or specific plant fiber cloth. --GreyMaria 14:25, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

Noticed that my stonecrafter liked Yellow Diamonds, was requesting cut gems. I had a large pile of cut gems around, but no yellow diamonds. I cut some more of what I had to give him a chance, but still no result. Then, a long time later and about when he should have gone insane, he gave out up on his demands and just grabbed some Prases. It seems that when they reach their limit, they will give take whatever is available in that category. There's now no such thing as an iron-clad demand, ever, for a specific material as long as it fits the category (in my experience). The exception being silk/plant cloth, where sub-categories are used (a dwarf may prefer GCS silk, but if you can't get it he will eventually use regular if you have enough). If someone can confirm this, a note should be added to the page. --The Architect 06:42, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Just standing around?

I have a dwarf who was possessed, but won't leave the main hall. He's also a novice in everything, but to be safe I've already cleared the shops. It's winter of my first year, but somehow I've already had 2 waves of immigrants. Back to the point, I'm afraid he's going to wait out the mood and go berserk. Help? --Ilmmad 20:00, 6 March 2008 (EST)

Well, make sure u ve got one workshop of every possible kind available - there are however quite a few u dont need to build, its covered in the article. Check for locked doors or otherwise blocked access (bridges, channels, statues..) Dont forget furnaces, glass and magma. Check with 'q' if all workshops are completely build. If it doesnt help consider building workshops not related to his skills, or more "exotic" ones, like Ashery or Alchemist. No one can guarantee that Toady didnt have some new fun ideas ;) --Koltom 22:59, 6 March 2008 (EST)

Same thing happened to one of my lenegdary dwarves. He then went berserk in my legendary dining room.. in front of my crossbow champions. Blood ensued. And now it has happened again, my hard trained master glassmaker just stands in the meeting zone flashing purple excl. sign, despite the fact that magma glass furnace is up and running. Doh. --Alpha 15:47, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

And an update... this is pretty stupid. I've decided to build a regular glass furnace, just to see what happens, and guess what, my glassmaker happily proceeded to claim it and made me a Lushutilun Othornoshtath, Guilthaled the Erased Devourer, a green glass statue. Neat-o. --Alpha 16:02, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

I can confirm this bug. I just had this happen to me too. I had three fully functional glass magma furnaces and he just stood in the middle of my meeting area. I went and built a regular glass furnace and he ran off and claimed it. Weird bug. --Toloran 04:10, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Its not a bug, its a feature. --Höhlenschreck 13:54, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Glassmaker with no glass

I had an immigrant glassworker get a mood, seize a glass workshop, and created an artifact made entirely of gemstones. No glass involved or asked for. (No sand on the map, anyway.) He turned into a Legendary Glassworker, despite having never made a glass anything.

Rewrite

I think I got most of the old information and then some into the new article. Please make any necessary modifications. --Marble Dice 01:22, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

Tanner fixed

I just had a Tanner claim a leather works, not a tannery. I updated the table. For the record, the dwarf has no skill level in leather working.

I wonder if Tanners even claim Tanner's shops? Tanner's shops just make leather, and leather doesn't have quality modifiers, so you shouldn't be able to produce an artifact from one, aye? That information came from an older version of the page, I wonder if it was inaccurate. Weavers supposed claim Clothier's shops and not Looms, so it would make sense if Tanners were the same way. --Marble Dice 18:08, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

Cooks

I can confirm that cooks do not produce artifacts: my Peasant with Dabbling Cook/Brewer/(various social) and nothing else just took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop. I'm removing the verify tag for cooks in the article. --Comonad 16:16, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

mmmm. . . . artifact roast. Mirthmanor 19:12, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

Soapers etc.

It stands to reason that soapers, lye makers, and wood burners wouldn't make artifacts. Neither soap, lye, charcoal, nor ash have quality modifiers, and that's all those skills can produce. I'm pretty sure you can't have artifact soap, lye, charcoal, or ash. --Tachyon 20:26, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

My woodburner just got possessed. He wants a shell and wood. I have the shell but I'm not sure what type of wood he wants. --Ehertlein 20:18, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

I just had a Soap Maker (his only skill, a fresh immigrant) get possessed. He took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop and with an obsidian stone, 3x turtle shells and a giant cave spider silk cloth and made a turtle shell toy boat. --Cal 01:32, 20 April 2009 (CDT)

Not all demands need to be met

I just had a dwarf taken by a secretive mood and collect a huge variety of things: 4 stone, 1 block, 1 gem, 2 rough gems, bones, a shell, 2 leather. He was further sketching for more bones, 2 leather, another stone, a log, another shell, and raw green glass. The only things I didn't have on hand were the shell and the green glass -- dwarves seem to go through their list in order, and get stuck on certain items.

I just hoped someone would eat a turtle (50/1678 chance!) and queued a raw green glass. When the glass was made, he got started, totally ignoring his previous requests for wood, another shell, and the other things. Anyone else have this experience? Mirthmanor 13:28, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

I think they keep sketching images even after they get the items. Your dwarf already had all of the shells, leather, bones, stones, blocks, and gems he needed. Curudan 15:26, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

This is correct. I've had dwarves run out, grab two items, and then sit at the Workshop shouting a need for three items. When the item he was waiting on became available, he ran out, grabbed it, went back in, and started working. So it's pretty evident that they list ALL of the items they want, regardless of how many of them they've already collected. --Nekojin 22:28, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

Possession

I've had 14 moods in my current Fortress, 11 of them have been possessions. Am I really unlucky, or is the type of mood weighted? HeWhoIsPale 09:55, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

As far as I can tell by looking at the game logic, each mood types are as likely to be rolled (except fell of course, which is selected if happiness<rand(128) or something like that). --Bartavelle 07:56, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

I had a feeling I was just getting really unlucky, thanks. HeWhoIsPale 14:34, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

I'm actually pretty sure that it's NOT completely random. I made a fortress with a unit limit of 16, and by the time I expanded it, all of my dwarves were Legendary in at least one skill. Since then, I've never gotten a single non-possession Strange Mood, except on a child. I think dwarves are MUCH more likely to become possessed when they already have a certain amount of experience. Going to bring this up on the forums as well... --76.85.202.152 16:52, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Furnace Operator

Apparently furnace operator is no longer a mood skill as of df 28 181 40d. I just had a expert furnace operator take over a Craftdwarf's Workshop and become a legendary stonecrafter. Otherdwarf 10:26, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

I had one take over a mason's workshop, I would guess that Furnace Operator is treating like Engraver or Miner. I'm kind of disappointed, I was hoping he'd churn out an artifact coke or something.Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!) 13:03, 14 November 2008 (EST)

Back when furnace operator was moodable, they'd turn out metal crafts. But taking over a mason's workshop is surprising. Occasionally they'll take over a random workshop and convert it into the type they want -- what artifact did the dwarf produce? And, just to rule out some obvious things, did the dwarf have dabbling skill in mining, masonry, or engraving?--Maximus 13:51, 14 November 2008 (EST)

He went crazy looking for some kind of rough gem, so we'll never know. It was right after the dwarf trading caravan left, too, so I really had no chance whatsoever. I don't know for sure what skills he had, I don't think he had much other than Furnace Operator, Architect, and the social skills though. I might have enabled mining, but there was plenty of work for him at the smelter so I don't know for sure.--Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!) 15:56, 14 November 2008 (EST)

Chunk Butchery?

Well, even though the selection of items for artifacts is totally random, its a bit wierd if a macabre dwarf goes to a butcher's workshop and starts bringing in tons of dwarf CHUNKS! My dwarf just started doing that, should I expect rotting meat (yes, the chunks are already rotten)? - 09:57, 30 October 2008 Stinhad Limarezum

^_^ "This is a delicious meat pie. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. On the item is an image of a dwarf and dwarves in rotting dwarf chunks. The dwarf is baking the other dwarves into meat pies. The artwork relates to the rise of the dwarf butcher Sweeney Todd as the cook of The Fleet Street in 78" -Fuzzy 11:11, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

Oh, do post the description of the artifact when the dwarf completes it. ("Menaces with spikes of dwarf chunk?" I'd be intimidated for sure.)--Maximus 13:18, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

What Workshop?

Is there any way to discover what workshop a dwarf in a secretive mood requires? I had nearly everything. I built a siege workshop and a bowery before I ran out of ideas and he went beserk. --Corona688 10:55, 3 November 2008 (EST)

You have to look at what skills he has first and rule out the obvious. If he has no mood-able skills then it's going to be a craftsdwarf's workshop. If you have hit magma and he wants a forge or glass furnace, he will insist on the magma version of that workshop. Finally, maybe one of your existing workshops was inaccessible or you accidentally forbid it at some point. If none of that works, I'm out of ideas too.--Maximus 13:01, 3 November 2008 (EST)

I have a functioning magma glass furnace and I had to build a normal glass furnace when my glass maker became secretive. HeWhoIsPale 14:23, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Same here, in fact I had 2 moody glass making dwarves refuse to use anything but a normal glass furnace when there were 5 fully functional magma glass furnaces in the same fort. (sorry, almost forgot to sign) --Alkyon 14:27, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Ditto. A glassmaker got possessed and refused to use my magma glass furnace. I had to build a regular one. --Schwern 19:33, 27 December 2008 (EST)

Ah. In older versions, they'd insist on a magma workshop, when possible. Do they now insist on using a regular workshop, or has anyone seen a moody dwarf use a magma workshop in recent versions?--Maximus 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)

I believe my metalsmith is waiting for my magma forge to come on line, I have a standard forge built, but that isn't doing anything for him. Does anyone know what effect fluctuating power will have on the strange mood? Edit: If a claimed workshop looses power for even a millisecond, the mood fails. HeWhoIsPale 12:02, 18 November 2008 (EST)

I can confirm that an Armorsmith will use a magma furnace, and if the furnace loses magma after it is claimed (Even if the dwarf is out collecting materials), the mood will fail. Decius 07:22, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Getting More Strange Moods

According to the article, the number of artifacts is limited by "The number of items created divided by 200." This indicates that making bolts (5 for each bone or 25 for each log) or brewing (5 units of drink for each unit of plant brewed) are efficient ways to encourage strange moods. Does that sound accurate?

It also states that the number of revealed subterranean tiles is a limit. Does that mean an area like a chasm, where many tiles are revealed to start with, will produce more strange moods?

Also, does anyone know whether the division rounds up or down? Gairabad 22:24, 16 November 2008 (EST)

I'd be willing to bet all stacks count as only one "item" for this kind of calculation. 200 sounds like a paltry number, however. If rocks are counted as items, most fortresses have thousands of them in just a few years. The other number is what is most significant (I wonder where the heck it comes from?) I've had four miners digging non-stop for about 10 years now, and my stocks menu says I have 70,000 stones. Allowing for underground soil tiles (which don't produce stone) and stone/ore consumed by industry, each miner can probably clear about 2,000 tiles a year: one artifact. I have 21 artifacts in my fortress now (and two failed moods early on), so if that rate is indicative, I'd say you want to employ three or more miners non-stop to maximize your chances.--Maximus 00:09, 17 November 2008 (EST)

The guy who wrote this doesn't seem to think that stones count as created items. Also, "revealed tiles" is ambiguous. For example, this method is very good at showing you what's inside of a tile without actually mining it out. Do you suppose that seeing whats inside is enough?

Where do you think these numbers came from anyway? I'm gonna take a look through the edit history and try to track them down. Gairabad 00:15, 17 November 2008 (EST)

They came during this edit. They're so specific I've got to think the author did some poking around with a disassembler. Again, though, 200 is such a paltry number. If underground "open space" counts, then discovering a chasm, bottomless pit, or magma pipe should many thousands thousands of revealed tiles. If underground floor tiles are needed, you'll have to mine most of them out yourself.--Maximus 00:34, 17 November 2008 (EST)

I had a chat with GreyMario over at his talk page, since he edited the page around the time the changes were made. He seemed fairly certain that all you had to do to "reveal" a tile was to have a passable square next to it, so I edited the article to reflect that. He did not, however, know anything about how bolts or stones would affect things. Right now my hopes are on Marble Dice, whom I believe made the actual addition. I'm not sure if he's a very active user though.

By the way, the reason I'm doing all this is that I'm considering optimizing a fortress for strange moods: have lots of dwarves with only "dabbling" in a single strange mood skill to gain maximum benefit from the moods. Any ideas for fortress strategies that will go well with this? Gairabad 02:44, 17 November 2008 (EST)

I saw the conversation -- I keep my eye on Special:Recentchanges. What he says about "reveal" is correct, as far as I know. I still wonder about "open space" tiles. If they count as revealed, all you really need to do is find a chasm/pit/magma pipe and you'll be in moods for years to come.

I've done the dabbling strategy in the past. It's best to emphasize just a few skills you really really want that are otherwise hard to train due to limited materials -- armorsmith, weaponsmith, bone carver, leatherworker, carpenter, etc. It works fine with any fortress strategy.--Maximus 04:30, 17 November 2008 (EST)

Two missing labors

Strand Extractor and Blacksmith don't currently appear in either the Causes Moods category or the Doesn't Cause Moods category. I put Strand Extractor in Doesn't Cause Moods and the Blacksmith in Causes Moods; feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong. Gairabad 19:59, 18 November 2008 (EST)

I can confirm that blacksmith is moodable, I've got a nice steel chest to show for it. It stands to reason that strand extractor isn't moodable, but we don't know for sure -- I've slapped a verify on it.--Maximus 21:01, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Confirmed that strand extractor doesnt have an associated strange mood. My strand extractor/fish cleaner/grower entered a strange mood and became a legendary bone carver. --Paradigmlost 06:15, 9 February 2009 (EST)

Order of stuff

I'm wondering if dwarves always claim items in a certain order. For example, when a dwarf wants three pieces of wood he always wants them back-to-back, never wood gem wood bone wood. So are types ALWAYS in a certain order? My current moody dwarf wanted two bars of metal, then spider silk cloth, then ash logs, then bones, then a rough gem, then a shell. Knowing the order might help you guess what the dwarf wants next if he doesn't need to wait for anything (and thus tell you what he wants). This might be useful for micromanaging forbidding stuff to make sure your dwarf gets the highest value things available. --Sowelu 23:19, 26 November 2008 (EST)

~~This is actually well-defined in the article, if you'd bothered to look close enough. Dwarves will gather items in the order they scream their demands in.~~ It's unknown. I think there's no real order, just similar things end up grouped together. :V --GreyMaria 23:32, 26 November 2008 (EST)

fail. Uh, I mean, as soon as anyone else sees a strange mood, it can either be disproven, or we can start putting some data together immediately and be done pretty quick. I saw: Metal Bars, Silk Cloth, Wood, Bones, Rough Gem, Shell. If anyone sees bones before wood or something, that means there's no guaranteed order. But no harm done. :) --Sowelu 23:36, 26 November 2008 (EST)

It's simpler than that. Items have a certain number of slots for improvements, and for artifacts the first improvement slot is always filled by the base material of the item. Then the rest are filled in order, with whatever is a valid candidate for that slot (which is probably 'anything that's anything' in every case, though I'm not absolutely sure.) So, there isn't any explicit sorting because it has to be in order.

If you fill an item's slots with ordinary decoration, which is easiest to do by encrusting a wide variety of gems on a piece of furniture or the like, you'll see what I mean. Maybe. --Navian 23:40, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Ah! So you're saying that instead of generating a list of ingredients, it first plans out the artifact itself, saying "This one is a chest, it has hanging rings and an image, first let's get a material for the chest, then a material for the hanging rings, then a material for the image"? That makes a ton of sense, and answers my question. Thanks! --Sowelu 23:47, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Well, I know it doesn't do that, because if you close the game and reopen it, you can get different items... With my elf game, I had one artifact that came out as either a thong, a left mitten, or a rope on five tries. But it's roughly the same idea, even with the details randomized upon creation. --Navian 00:05, 27 November 2008 (EST)

Fell Mood Demands

It looks like when a brooding dwarf sits in the tanner's shop and says he needs "Things..." what he's looking for is vermin remains. Other demands are like in Fey moods. --Sev 22:24, 3 December 2008 (EST)

Confusing macabre mood

My mayor just entered one, while 'quite content', claimed a smelter, waited for a bit, until the parts appeared (the vermin must have died). He then created a roach rock chitin bracelet, and gained the carpenter skill. Am I missing something here? Smelter, rock and carpenter don't seem to mix well... Note: The only skills were proficient cook and fish cleaner, with some dabbling and noice social.--Finbeer 13:03, 6 December 2008 (EST)

Carpenter? Or wood crafter? Claiming a smelter isn't out of the question: they sometimes grab a random workshop and turn it into the one they want (is it still a smelter?). And what is roach rock? Give the actual description of the artifact.--Maximus 19:14, 6 December 2008 (EST)

Carpenter. It's still a smelter, yes. "This is a large roach chitin bracelet. All craftsdwaftship is of the highest quality. It is encircled with bands of large roach chitin and dwarf bone. This object menaces with spikes of rat leather."--Finbeer 15:32, 7 December 2008 (EST)

Hmm. Post that one on the forums, find out if it's an actual bug. Does sound pretty nonstandard.--Maximus 22:50, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:-D Pretty sure that a roach is an actual bug. -Fuzzy 09:00, 8 December 2008 (EST)

D'oh.--Maximus 22:56, 8 December 2008 (EST)

I did have two very close together, but I am certain that neither had any carpenter skill, and the smelter was claimed.

I've just had a similar occurance. Immediately after a goblin ambush (that killed 5 of my soldiers and caused major unhappiness in many dwarves), one dwarf that had lost a friend but was just "content" clained a tanner's workshop, grabbed a rhesus macque chunk, and made a rather boring rhesus macaque leather amulet (no embelishments apart from rhesus macaque leather bands). It did have quite an impressive name though - Gethustongos Nelas Luror, "Harshtainted the Flicker of Cruelties". The dwarf herself became a Legendary Weaponsmith, despite having no weaponsmithing skill! (Her highest skill was unlabled armoring). Iapetus 19:47, 10 January 2009 (EST)

I imagine the requirement for a macabre/fell mood is having a thought psychology of less than 0 (being 'unhappy'). "Quite Content" shows up until -25, and then 'fine' is -26 to -50, so either of these diagnoses would theoretically qualify for a fell/macabre mood. --ThunderClaw 12:05, 14 January 2009 (EST)

I think macabre moods have a bug or something. I had a fisherdwarf go macabre, and he was definitely very unhappy since my fortress had fallen into a terrible state of unhappiness (ask me some other time). He went to a butcher's workshop and made a Large Roach Chitin Ring. I can't remember what skill he got but it was definitely not leatherworking or butchery.--Stinhad Limarezum 05:31, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Trapper?

Has anyone seen a dwarf get trapper experience from a mood? I've made a couple of artifact animal traps at this point, and all of them were by dwarves without the trapper skill who received xp in skills related to the material. (ie, my turtle-shell animal trap was made by someone who became a legendary bonecarver therefrom). I know I made a similar comment on the Trapper talk page. From the other end, I'm sure I've had immigrant trappers get moods before and have never seen a legendary trapper, although I don't recall specifically enough to be certain they had moods. But I've seen zero evidence that Trapper is actually a moodable skill. --Squirrelloid 16:00, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Craftdwarf's Workshop

I just had a lye maker take over a metalsmith's forge and turn out a bracelet; now he's a legendary metalcrafter. I think that "Dwarves with only the following skills will construct their artifact at a craftsdwarf's workshop..." might be too constrictive, and that such dwarves could seize any craftdwarf-related workshop (including forges and carpenter's shops), not just a craftdwarf's workshop. Anyone else observed this behavior? --Wingus 09:55, 22 December 2008 (EST)

You're certain that the dwarf in question had no experience in any other tasks? --Edward 11:19, 22 December 2008 (EST)

Yes, the lyemaker had no other (non-social) skills. He was a recent immigrant I was using as a hauler. --Wingus 11:35, 22 December 2008 (EST)

There have been quite a few anomalous moods that we haven't documented properly yet.--Maximus 14:34, 22 December 2008 (EST)

Figure this falls here. Had a Potash Maker refuse every shop I built, I had thought I had a craft shop. Turns out it was forbidden, I reclaimed it and he claimed it for his mood. I think this is verified.--Draco18s 15:18, 3 January 2009 (EST)

Time limit of a mood.

Do we have a fix on the exact time the player has to satisfy a mood before the dwarf goes insane? Any clue on whether it's fixed or variable? --Shurikane 12:04, 27 December 2008 (EST)

I don't have a specific time limit, nor have I checked for variability, but 60 days/2 months is very close to the limit in my experience. --ThunderClaw 12:18, 12 January 2009 (EST)

And when I started to produce the demanded materials (silk cloth en masse) not until the mood? Will my moody go insane if he only gets them in homeopathic dosages? --Gnarker

Nah, so long as he gets them before he cracks, it's all good - and 2 months sounds about right. Also note that so long as he is in the process of gathering, that clock is on hold - that's been demonstrated elsewhere. However, the "mood clock" doesn't reset until the current mood's done, so the sooner that's started and completed, the sooner you'll get another mood. There are only a half-score uncommon materials that a moody dwarf wants, so it's not hard to keep a few of each around for emergencies. Order them from the 1st Fall liaison, and you'll have them by 2nd Fall (if not before by luck).--Albedo 19:50, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Injured with Mood?

I recently had a recruit break his arm in sparring, you know... dwarf stuff, anyways he went into a strange mood and now hes magically up out of bed and walking around to the workshop. Will this work too if the dwarf has a broken leg? EDIT: The dwarf just fell on the ground unconcsious... This could be a big problem

I just had a dwarf who'd been resting for months with a broken left upper leg and broken lower body rise up and crawl to the mason's workshop. The power of Armok compels her! Heartofgoldfish 02:44, 13 February 2009 (EST)

Her injuries weren't ones that would make her pass out, and so, she's completed Nishuthir, a limestone weapon rack! Heartofgoldfish 03:53, 13 February 2009 (EST)

Siege Operator

Is listed in the table as using a mechanics workshop. In the text to the left of the table says the dwarf will use a craftsdwarf's workshop. Which is correct?--Kwieland 13:16, 2 March 2009 (EST)

Siege operation produces nothing, so I'm fairly certain they use a craftdwarfs shop. But then, I've never had a Siege Operator (as highest skill) have a mood, so i can't absolutely verify that. I'd say even Siege Engineers need verification on what they do with moods - I've never seen one. --Squirrelloid 20:54, 2 March 2009 (EST)

I agree with your comments. Since I am using siege operators as a cross-training tool, several of my dwarfs are at legendary status. Each of them are dabbling weapon/armor smiths, so I'll update it when they get a mood. My last mood was a soldier with lots of soldier skills, but dabbling in metalwork, armor, and weaponsmith. I got a legendary weaponsmith out of it - Woot! Woot!

As for the Siege engineer, I don't think they would produce a catapult or ballista part artifact. It just doesn't make sense. But, I agree, we definitely need to verify that one. --Kwieland 13:50, 3 March 2009 (EST)

I had a dwarf (legendary siege op., novice clothes, stone crafter, dabbling other things) get a mood. He took a craftsdwarf's workshop. Squirrelloid, do you want to fix the front page?--Kwieland 20:58, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Reasonably certain I already made the correct change on presumption, but i'll take a look. (done) --Squirrelloid 08:20, 5 March 2009 (EST)

I edited that in about a month ago when I had an SO get a special mood and, yes, he claimed a mechanic's workshop. Probably worth verifying that independently but that's certainly what happened to me. Aosher 09:13, 5 March 2009 (EST)

The question would be 'was his highest mood skill mechanics', because that would cause him to take a mechanics workshop despite being a Siege Operator. --Squirrelloid 09:36, 5 March 2009 (EST)

I'm pretty sure I checked and that it was siege operation; although I wouldn't swear that I remember it clearly, I'd like to think that I would have checked before wikifying it. Certainly worth keeping the verify tag for now, though. Aosher 09:51, 5 March 2009 (EST)

I had a SO with no other skills take a craftdwarf's shop. He was a peasant before I made him train in SO. I can't yet verify siege engineer (The skill that produces catapult parts). It would make sense. Decius 08:57, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

In that case, my apologies. Aosher 09:02, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Butcher

Had a Butcher/Dabbling Tanner become a Legendary Tanner after a mood. Verified. --Squirrelloid 08:23, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Lye Maker

Immigrant Lye Maker/Dabbling Leather Worker became a Legendary Leather Worker after a mood. Verified. --Squirrelloid 11:31, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Weirdness

I just had a dwarf with legendary siege operator/legendary pump operator/legendary record keeper/ competent mason /previous mayor, so various levels of social and military skills that took a craftsdwarf's shop. I would have thought he'd take the mason's shop according to the rules here. Maybe the record keeper ALWAYS takes the craftdwarf's shop? Also, it was a possessed mood, so maybe that makes a difference?--Kwieland 11:31, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

Weird. I've had Legendary record keepers take appropriate workshops for their mood skills. Ditto pump operator. All my siege operators end up being dwarves who ended up with useless mood skills (generally because they had moods as children), but that would be really weird if SO was considered a moodable skill that took the *craftdwarf* workshop. Too bad it was possession, we can't see where he got xp. --Squirrelloid 15:04, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

There's evidence that if the highest skill doesn't have a workshop, they'll switch to the next highest skill, and if that doesn't have a workshop, the next after that. Possibly, the game only checks this a certain number of times, say, twice, and then defaults to craftsman's workshop. This would eliminate instances where maybe a peasant has constructed a wall or two in his time, but he's a much better comedian, liar, and pacifier. Obviously, he's not a mason of any sort, so he defaults to craftsdwarf. --Mikaka 06:24, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I've had a couple possessed dwarves take craftdwarf's shops even though they had an applicable skill. I think that maybe the rules are a little difference for possesion; it would make sense since if you're possessed it shouldn't be your skills that matter. I don't know if this is just a fluke though, so it would be good to have confirmation. --Lemursdon'texist 16:53, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Mikaka, I don't agree. In my experience, if the highest moodable skill workshop doesn't exist, the dwarf just wonders around (and will eventually go insane unless the building gets built). I take my non-mood dwarfs (dyers, farmers, furnace operators) and have them make ONE piece of armor. When they get a mood, they always go to the forge and become legendary armorsmiths. Possessions, like Lemurs mentioned above, are different from other moods. Skills don't matter and they don't get experience for it.--Kwieland 17:11, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Kablebes

Craftsdwarf's Workshop

This building has been claimed by Zas Dedukudil, Farmer.

Zas Dedukudil keeps muttering Kablebes...

That is all. No other mutterings, nothing. --Zphobic 21:23, 15 April 2009 (CST)

He's muttering the name of the thing that he will eventually produce. Don't worry about it, he's got everything he needs and is working. Aosher 09:05, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

military

"Further, dwarfs with a military profession other than "Recruit" can not enter moods"

Does this mean that they can't be moody while being soldier and, as that, say, marksdwarf, but they can be moody as civilians while having skill in marksdwarf or does it not matter if soldier or civilian as long as marksdwarf is not their highest skill? --Höhlenschreck 19:28, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

I would need to look at the disassembly again to be absolutely sure, but what I remember is that if a military skill is their highest (non-social) skill, they won't enter into moods. —0x517A5D 00:47, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Hol - it's all about professions. 0x5 - that's what your analysis of this said when you posted it on the forums. Military professions simply don't take moods. I'll edit and emphasize/clarify that.

EDIT - Gah. Now that I'm half-way into it, I know how moods work, but I'm starting to doubt how the game reads "professions" - does activating change a dwarf's profession in the eyes of Moods? If a legendary Brewer has 2 ranks of hammerdwarf and are activated, are they a "brewer" or a "macedwarf"? --Albedo 01:01, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Personality

I'm 90% certain personality traits like "feels strong urges" "has a fertile imagination" and one other trait greatly influence the development of moods.– unsigned comment by Eerr

I believe that you feel this way. Care to expand on why, and exactly what influence you believe they have? (and what that "one other trait" is?)--Albedo 20:21, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Miner is moodable?

Just had a legendary miner with no masonry, not even dabbling, claim a masonry shop and made a marble coffer artifact. He was in a secretive mood. It was even weirder in that he gained no experience even though he was not possessed. Greep 02:26, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

He probably did gain experience - just in mining. Since he was already advanced skill wise, he wouldn't even get any attributes from the bump in experience.--Kwieland 02:29, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

This is all covered in the article - read Skills and workshops and check the list for miner --Confused 02:33, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

whoops missed it >.> Wait, why isn't miner on the moodable list then? Do people not know if it is weighted at 6? Greep 03:22, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Ummm... it's there on the moodable list, right between metalsmith and stone crafter. As for weighting... hmmm, you're right, and no mention of it in the original forum thread (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35257.msg545835#msg545835). Have to ask User:0x517A5D, the original researcher. --Albedo 08:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Read it again. VengefulDonut 16:21, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, I liked it better the other way - it was a positive confirmation of any and every relevant profession, and emphasized both profession vs. skill, and also moodable professions vs. non-moodable, both of which some players are vague on. As you've correctly pointed out before, why delete any useful info once it's up? (Do you know for a fact that Miner is one of the non-weighted professions?)--Albedo 18:44, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Deleting info? The current version delivers all of the information of the previous version except in a more compact way. I don't believe in inflating the size of an article when it neither delivers more information nor makes it easier to access. Doing so only introduces errors when editing it and interpreting it. The situation of doubt over the miner was caused by an error of omission when the section was changed from something similar to the current version to create the three section table. VengefulDonut 19:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

If possible, birthright likes detailed lists for their explicitness, and feels they are easier accessible sometimes. --Birthright 23:48, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

nonsense - expl. m. focuses on not mining a lot of stone

Why is any one particular mining method better for increasing your artifact limit? All we care about is pure mass mined, right? VengefulDonut 01:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

It's the quantity of revealed tiles that counts. Bartavelle 07:59, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, revealed. I both forgot and misread that and bow my head in shame --Birthright 13:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Happiness

I've added a little remark in mood types about the happiness state of moody dwarves at the moment of the announcement. I had 7 different fortresses with at least 5 artifacts in each. All the time my possessed dwarves were "quite content", while fey and secretive were "happy" or even "ecstatic". Royal dining rooms ahoy!– unsigned comment by Insecticide

I agree this seems to be the case. All my "quite content" dwares turn possessed. This is very likely also because we know you need to be unhappy for a fell mood. Greep 08:45, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay upon further research, you can get a fey mood when quite content. However, all of my possessed dwarves were quite content. More research would be nice :) Greep 08:14, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Toady is a mean little bitch. I pride myself in a 100% ecstatic fortress and yet i have the occasional posessed mood and yes, they are all quite content. This nagged me badly and so i did a bit save game juggling: All posessed dwarfs, 5 so far, were ecstatic before being posessed and content after. In 2 cases i could even reload a save just 2 days back and all 5 had the same thoughts displayed. --Birthright 22:49, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm, yes I just noticed that tantrums work the same way. I had a dwarf get his only masterpiece defaced so he's at -1000. He throws a tanturm and magically goes from miserable to very unhappy. Then after the tantrum goes back to miserable. It's happened 4 times in a row with him Greep 02:53, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

It seems the same applies to secretive moods, will collect more data. It might be implemented this way to ensure a proper chance of the artifact to fail - along the lines of fey: hey lets build a great thingy versus secret and posessed: I NEED to do this --Birthright 10:27, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

If you view any dwarf who is currently in a Strange Mood, that dwarf will seemingly always be "quite content" - Dwarf Companion seems to indicate that entering a mood resets a dwarf's happiness value to exactly 100. This seems to be the case for fey moods, possessions, and secretive moods - I've not yet had the misfortune of getting a fell mood or macabre mood (since my dwarves are always ecstatic), so it's possible those are different. --Quietust 20:22, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Which skill chosen when skill levels are the same?

"If two skills are at the same experience, the first listed for that dwarf will be the one affected by the mood."

Novice Mason, Novice Engraver - First listed was Mason, but he became legendary engraver. Does this mean he had more XP as engraver but was still novice or is the statement just wrong? --Koltom 02:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

It depends on the exact amount of experience points they have in each skill. There's not really an in-game way to see this, but Dwarf Companion will show it. —0x517A5D 20:13, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

It does not depend on the exact experience points, just on the level/title. In my current game, I had an immigrant craftsdwarf get a mood. He was novice in bone carving, glass making, and leatherworking. I'd been training him up in glass making, and he was just a few xp away from hitting no label when he got his mood. (Exact xp levels were confirmed with Dwarf Therapist.) He claimed a crafts workshop, and became a legendary bone carver. (I'm just trying to update the main article with this information, but the damned thing won't let me log in. ¬_¬) --Morlark 07:58, 09 October 2009 (UTC)

I can confirm Morlak's -- I have a dwarf with the profession "Craftsdwarf" who just became possessed. While he is at the Normal (unnamed) level in both stone crafting and glassmaking, according to Dwarf Therapist he has 450 more xp in Stone Crafter. He learned stone crafting first, so that shows up first on his list in the game. Still, he grabbed a Glass Furnace (and not either of the two magma glass furnaces, I might add). Preferences might play a role here, as he does prefer clear glass and may have grabbed raw green glass because no raw clear glass was available, though he did not grab his preferred leather or metal, both of which were also available. The only other factor I can think of is that he had glassmaking enabled but not stone crafting when he started the mood. Save file taken when he was grabbing materials is available. 66.16.55.157 01:42, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Materials used

Before I struck adamantine, all metalworking moods (weapons, armor, furniture, crafts) would pick a randomly available metal and use it. However, ever since I struck adamantine, they always go straight for the wafers, even when it isn't in their preferences. Stone-related moods, however, don't seem to prefer raw adamantine over other nearby rocks. --Quietust 18:24, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Material Preferences

Stories from the old 2D version have included many accounts of dwarves in strange moods requesting very specific materials, though with all of the moods I've gone through in 40d, I have never seen any dwarf require any specific material other than Adamantine (and only for metalsmithing or clothesmaking moods, and only once I've actually discovered it). Are specific material preferences even present in the current version, or were they removed from the game entirely (along with many other things)? --Quietust 17:01, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I've also never got such requests. And I've used Dwarf companion to crank out over 20 artifacts in a single fortress at least 3 times. All in all, I've probably seen over 100 different artifacts made and never had a single request for a specific material (I don't play a lot of fortresses with Adamantine, so that's why I've not seen those, and the few I have died due to too much fun.) Shardok 18:45, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Not that rare actually - just had a mood that asked for silver bars. Often moodies ask specifically for one of silk or plant cloth, sometimes also specifically only one of rope reed or pig tail. Those demands are obviously tied to preferences, maybe moreso for the base material. Clear glass will also not be accepted as replacement for green glass, but maybe thats completely out of bounds, I never had an artifact with clear glass. I, too, can however not recall requests for a specific log, gem (cut or not), bone or leather, e.g. --Koltom 23:44, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Dwarves insisting on plant fiber cloth versus silk cloth is perfectly normal, though I don't think I've ever seen them specifically require pig tail cloth over rope reed cloth. --Quietust 20:58, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I think that's a "plant cloth"/"animal cloth" distinction, sim to foods, mebbe? Reworded section about that to apply to "general items", not specific subtypes - the warning is still valid, as newbs still find themselves without silk or shells all the time. (Too bad, I miss that whole scramble.) --Albedo 22:43, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I suppose I should note that, in my (new) current fortress, I have had 2 moods which required a specific metal, netting me a trifle pewter table and a pig iron crossbow - when I tried forbidding every metal other than platinum/aluminum (for the blacksmith) or steel (for the weaponsmith), they just sat around until I gave them what they wanted. --Quietust 15:27, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Failed fell mood

Recently, I had a child go into a fell mood. Many of my dwarves had recently died to a tantrum spiral, but there were still about 70 left. The fell child claimed a butcher's shop and sat there for a while, not saying or doing anything. Eventually a baby passed by the butcher's shop and the fell child promptly killed it in one hit (those dwarves need psychological help). However, the child did not do anything with the corpse, instead returning to the butcher's shop and sitting there. Eventually, some other dwarves came along and buried the baby. Although many other dwarves passed by the butcher's shop, the child never did anything else, and eventually went insane. This was my first fell mood, so I have only this page to tell me what's supposed to happen. Is this a bug? Has anyone else ever had a child go into a fell mood, or a baby killed by one? --LaVacaMorada 03:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Did you have friendly corpses set to be forbidden on dropping from the (O)rders (F)orbid menu? Because then he'd fail to pick up the corpse when it dropped, and that might break the mood. --Squirrelloid 02:36, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't want magma forge?

I didn't have any forges (just smelters) when a newly arrived weaponsmith had a secretive mood. I built two magma forges, but he didn't use them. I then built a metalsmith's forge, and he used it immediately. !? -Goffrie 21:45, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

It's possible they'll only claim a magma forge if you have one. --Quietust 22:39, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

This is addressed in the article...

When multiple workshops are listed, the dwarf may require one or the other, 
so ensure that both are available,...

Yours didn't want the magma version, he would only accept the standard type. Quite common.--Albedo 18:26, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

The latest text makes it sound like a fortress with no magma could have a moody dwarf that wanted to use only a magma workshop, despite that being impossible. I've never had the privilege of working with magma, but I have seen dozens of moods, and as far as I know I haven't seen this happen; my mooders always seem to claim my mundane workshops. Has anyone else seen it happen? --HebaruSan 23:06, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I've built non-magma on a magma map and had them turn their nose up at normal forges, and claim magma when normal are available. --Albedo 02:14, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

The latest revision resolves my concern. Thanks! --HebaruSan 04:39, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Possessed dwarves naming artifacts after themselves

Just had this happen to me for the second time. I'm not even talking talking about the artifact sharing a dorf's last name out of pure randomness, but artifacts with the exact same names of their creators, down to untranslated first names. Has this happened to anyone else? --Jackdaw 19:09, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

I've had it happen several times, though usually only once or twice in a single fortress (out of over 50 artifacts). --Quietust 23:20, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

I've seen this happen when the dwarf in question had a custom name.

Soldiers

I've had *recruits* get moods. Just recently in fact. However, it doesn't seem to happen if they have more than dabbling in any of the military skills and are activated as a soldier. Shardok 05:11, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

"Further, dwarfs with a military profession other than "Recruit" can not enter moods. Incidental military skills make no difference - eligibility (and weighting) depends purely on the actual profession, as listed at the time. Military professions include: Axedwarf, Axe Lord, Champion, Crossbowdwarf, Elite Crossbowdwarf, Hammerdwarf, Hammer Lord, Macedwarf, Mace Lord, Marksdwarf, Elite Marksdwarf, Speardwarf, Spearmaster, Swordsdwarf, Swordmaster, Wrestler, and Elite Wrestler. "

That's in the article in the spoilers section under eligibility. Shardok 05:16, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Do the impossible?

I just had an Armorsmith get possessed. He claimed a magma furnace and he ended up making a shoe out of Nickel. I'm fairly certain the only clothing that can be forged is made of adamantine. Has anyone else had a dwarf make an impossible item through a mood? Perhaps it has to do with how the dwarves don't usually request specific materials.

Othosakgos Ngobol Emal, "Wiltclinched the Glumness of Sensing", a Nickel shoe. 103,200 monies "This is a Nickel shoe. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. It is studded with Nickel. This object is adorned with hanging rings of Platinum and menaces with spikes of Platinum. On the item is an image of a shining sun in Pine." --71.145.167.100 04:02, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

It's not that uncommon. Off the top of my head, I've had a turtle shell mini-forge, a green glass bucket, a tsavorite chain, a fire imp bone shield, and a deer bone table. It seems to be based on the preferences of the dwarf in the strange mood. --LaVacaMorada 08:46, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Dwarves in a strange mood can make any makeable item from any material. Even if they didn't actually use any of that material in its construction. They can also see the invisible, and fight the power, using their giant adamantium corkscrew. 68.93.32.193 19:11, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Lack of silver, appearance of toad bone

I just had my first batch of migrants arrive, and with them came a Weaponsmith. Within two minutes he was taken by a fey mood and took over my forge. He went and, with some persuasion through forbidding, grabbed three bars of silver and some wood for his construction. Upon completion, I got "Drinkice the Present of Flashing", a toad bone spear: "This is a toad bone spear. All craftdwarfship is of the highest quality. On the item is an image of dwarves in Willow. The dwarves are laboring. The artwork relates to the foundation of Mistmanor by The Blameless Pages of The Oracular Arena in the early spring of 201." Worth just 2,400 dollars.

First off, since toads don't leave bones, if this was a Giant Toad bone that was somehow used, shouldn't it say so? Secondly, according to the save I made before he got started, I don't have any toad bones in my Fortress, giant or no. Lastly, while he was making this, I was smelting some more bars to replace the ones he took. However, given the amount that I have upon completion of the artifact, I have a sneaking suspicion that his silver was stolen from him during construction by my haulers. Is this possible?

So, what just happened? 24.179.141.137 18:16, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

You probably marked the silver bars as forbidden after he started his mysterious construction - when the main material for the artifact is removed in this manner, the artifact turns into toad bone. --Quietust 22:53, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that makes sense. He had originally grabbed some Tin bars, which I then forbade. I ran through it again from my save before he claimed the shop and forbid all but the silver beforehand, and I got a silver mace worth 49,200 dollars. Same name, different description. I think it was worth the effort. 24.179.141.137 03:55, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Fortress/Royal Guards?

If I draft a dwarf to the Fortress or Royal Guard, will it still be eligible for a strange mood if it has no military experience? If so, could you game the system so only dwarves with more desirable professions would enter moods? (Four Legendary bone carvers is enough) 70.138.29.184 02:49, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Editing to change the likelihood of certain mood types?

Just wondering if there's something I can edit, to, say, remove the possibility of dwarves getting posessed in favor of fey or secretive moods. No less than six of ten attempted strange moods in my current fortress have been posession and it's starting to annoy me. --Loyal 16:01, 2 January 2010 (EST)

No, nothing that can be edited. But I have written a utility to do that. I've not released it, I just wrote it for my personal use. I suppose, though, that I could clean it up and release it. Is there much of a desire for such a blatant cheat?
—0x517A5D 18:20, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Dwarf Companion is already capable of changing mood types, though it's really only meaningful for fey/secretive/possessed as it doesn't change the actual mood task. --Quietust 18:37, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

All I'm concerned about is getting the dwarves their experience. --Loyal 17:43, 4 January 2010 (EST)

Artifact with no materials

Lately, one of my mechanics went secretive and decided to take a mechanic's shop. He only took one stone though, so I thought I'd be mean and forbid it while he was using it. He's still sitting there working furiously, even after I made sure a peasant came and dumped it. Any idea what might happen? I'm waiting for him to go insane, but I'm also half-expecting a mechanism made of nothingness. "This is a mechanism. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. It menaces with spikes of and is encircled with bands of. On the item is a picture of a dwarf in. The dwarf is defying the laws of physics." KoboldInDisguise 02:57, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Never mind, he just went stark raving mad. Good thing nobody liked him! 58.175.42.234 03:11, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

@@ Line 2: / Line 2: @@
 Toady just did a long dwarf talk which focused a bit on artifacts, there's a paragraph about 1/4 of the way down on the factors governing the limit as to how many artifacts may be made. Apparently embarking on a larger site allows you to make more artifacts.
-[http://www.bay12games.com/media/df_talk_7_transcript.html]
+[http://www.bay12games.com/media/df_talk_7_transcript.html] I believe this is for DF 2010.
 ''After the first one it gets a little more complicated. The contributing factors after that ... It's no longer population, you have to have a dwarf available who hasn't made an artifact already ... and it looks at the items made, just how many items have you made in all of your workshops and any other way that it might happen - I think maybe even mined out stone counts - and then it takes that number and divides it by two hundred, and then it looks at your floor space, and evaluates how many unhidden squares there are, and divides that by some number - I think it's every two thousand unhidden squares, including the wilderness, so you get a starting buffer - and then it caps the items made by that so it's really the minimum of the items made and your floor space, except you need items made; floor space itself doesn't do it for you, but the items made gets compared to the floor space and it takes the smallest one, or it caps it, or whatever. In any case, it then subtracts the number of artifacts you've already made. So say you had, for instance, six hundred items made, divided by two hundred you get three, so that's three artifact credit; you've made enough items so that you can make three items. And let's say that you only had four thousand floor space, so divided by two thousand, that's two, so you actually only have two artifact credits. And say you've already made an artifact, now you have one artifact credit, so it goes ahead and lets you make an artifact. Then the next time it goes through if you haven't changed anything then you'd have no artifact credits left. Now this assumes that the artifact gets created successfully, so it's not like you're using up your chances or anything.''