40d Talk:Your first fortress

Other

Content from Getting started

The goal of this page is to explain in detail, and for newbies, how to:

1. Generate a world (possibly from a seed)(probably will link to article(s) on the topic)
2. Pick a fortress location
3. Name your fortress and starting group
4. Buy skills and items, for the biome type picked in #2 (probably will give the newbie build from the starting builds page)
5. Play the first month or two of the game, for the biome type picked in #2

I don't know how to write an article that does this, but I do know that this is what this article should be.
--Savok 11:19, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

I'd like to avoid having an overabundance of tutorial articles again. It sounds to me like all of the above would fit into Your first fortress just as easily. --Peristarkawan 12:00, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

Should we go ahead and just #redirect it?--Draco18s 12:07, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

Done. --Peristarkawan 12:14, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

Recording a Movie

I was thinking that someone could record a movie following the steps given here, as a visual aid. As DF is very structure-based it would help to visualize how the fortress is supposed to look. Memo 15:13, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Choosing a location

Your surrondings

flux, iron, etc.

Is it really necessary to recommend a sedimentary layer? You don't really need to start with iron at all, you can just let the goblins import it for you and melt their armor for an essentially infinite supply. Unless this changes at the end of Army Arc I'm not sure starting iron is needed.

Have to be in contact with dwarves?

"You will want to be in contact with dwarves to get immigrants and a dwarven trading caravan."

Is it even possible to settle somewhere without dwarves? --Juckto 18:18, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

Nope. Even on a volcanic island on the opposite side of the map from any dwarven mountainhome, caravans visited. It's worth noting that the local map was all land, but still they took ships over to get to the island itself, I suppose.--Dadamh 14:49, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

Ships don't exist. "Boats are the enemy of tiles. And tiles are the enemy of boats." --Toady One

They don't need to, either - the caravans just bring along seven units of lava, one block of green glass, and a legendary glassmaker. Once they get to the beach, they turn a tiny patch of sand into an ocean-spanning bridge.

That, or they tunnel under the ocean with an unskilled miner - he'll become legendary soon enough. --Savok 23:01, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

Well, I sort of meant it as a joke. Off-screen boats. My entire tile was flat land, but they still got there somehow, so I was supposing boats over the water.--Dadamh 07:32, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

Buying Skills and Items

Skills

Skill choices

I know skill choices are largely a matter of preference, but the inclusion of a Bookkeeper, Manager, Expedition Leader, and Broker in the landing party definitely merit a mention, as well as whether or not a beginning player should throw a few skill points at improving his Broker's and Leader's key skills. Being able to talk that first dwarven caravan into throwing some extra sides of meat in could mean the difference in survival for a newer player.--Xazak 19:29, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

I agree with this. When I make a new Caravan, I often make a Leader-type with ONLY leader/trade related skills. Even just having the ability to SEE the values of the items (even if you have them memorized) helps aid in making a good first-year trade session. And the first-year Dwarven caravan doesn't expect a large profit. I've done large deals with them that only netted them a 10-coin profit. --Nekojin 12:45, 14 November 2007 (EST)

I think good bridging points are the seasons and end of the years; To aid readability and to separate into chunks, I think a listing of 'things to accomplish by winter', 'things to accomplish by spring (your first immingants!)', that sort of thing -- To avoid having a gigantic page, it might be better to split them off into "your first year", "your second year", especially because the gameplay changes signifiantly when you start getting nobles and your construction focus starts to shift from mere survival into making your dwarves happy, trading, and onward to economy and such. If people are interested in taking this approach, I'd certainly help with the writing. Bhodi 13:10, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Current skill list could be improved. Gem setter? Just wait for immigrant... Starting points can be spent in better ways. Mechanic/architect won't have time for architecture if he has well-planned day. Woodcutting goes up really quick. 4 points in axedwarf will give you enough active defense for everything that isn't strong enough to force you to lock all dwarves underground. Weaponsmith isn't really needed at start. Your unskilled dwarves aren't good fighters, and this 20-40% damage won't change much. Proficient in herbalism is too much. It's either only to bootstrap aboveground farming or to replace it entirely (for starting fortresses) in which case you don't need grower skill. --Someone-else 16:35, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

Speaking of gem setters, they're completely worthless because it takes more time to stud 300 exceptional mugs with gems than it takes to make 300 masterwork mugs. --GreyMario 16:50, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

Hey now, the point of gem setting (after you've gotten a legendary one of course) isn't to stud your mugs, its to decorate those statues/thrones/tables/doors for the king or just general enjoyment of the fortress. Its not like you need gems or gem-studded objects for trade, buying out caravans is so trivially easy without that. And if you're going to stud a tradegood with gems, stud something with more intrinsic value than a mug - even a masterwork one isn't worth all that much.

More generally on skills, i've been finding that once you get comfortable with the game you want to load up on skills that are harder to level up. I haven't even been starting with miners my last couple games, leveling miners is pretty easy. I often grab dwarves who can do one to two of the following: Carpentry, Building Design, Masonry, Mechanics, Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Metalsmith. After that, choose one of Clothier or Glassworker (and possibly grab some related profession skills). Make sure one dwarf has leader skills (I prefer 1 in each of Negotiator/Appraiser/Judge Intent/Persuader/Consoler). Combine these as you see fit (though I generally combo Architect/Mason and make my Mechanic my broker/trader/bookkeeper/hopefully leader). And make sure to get a Brewer/Grower to handle your food needs (starting with a trained cook I find to be less important than a trained brewer). Anything left I put into other possibly useful and hard to train skills - gem cutter or setter being most typical. The real trick is suitably micromanaging the 'easy-train' necessary jobs to avoid polluting your desired mood skill before the first wave of immigrants arrive. I've also been starting with an anvil most of the time too, and crafting my axe (and sometimes my picks, although you don't save much doing that).

Which isn't to say beginners shouldn't start with some experienced miners and so forth. But the herbalist is wholely unnecessary (I've only above ground farmed once, and that was for dye plants and 4 years in). It would be more worthwhile to recommend they start in an area with a soil layer to make underground farming easier (and soil layers seem to be pretty common). But the starting advice recommends so much food that the only difficulty is figuring out how to irrigate, not having the time to do so before they run out of food. Finally, defensive skills are overrated. You want defense? That's what the mechanic is for. Stonefall traps are far more reliable than a military dwarf, and won't take ages getting into position, be sleeping/eating/drinking when you need them, or take an unlucky hit and die instead of finishing the critter. Far too much of a gamble, especially for a new player. (Kobold thieves are easily dealt with by drafting everyone within a small radius, or just letting it run away if only one dwarf is nearby - they won't try to engage your dwarves once spotted - or by dogs for that matter).

--Squirrelloid 01:31, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

I have a concern that fisherdwarf is a suggested skill. If you are along a river or ocean, chances are any fisherdwarves will be horribly mauled by deadly carp and longnose gar. Fish are deadly enough to any dwarves getting a drink from a river without tempting fate by actually fishing. One dwarf dying along a river creates a deadly cycle of dwarves attempting to loot the body and then being killed by fish.--quartic 14:19, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

Dwarf with appropriate skills not necessarily the leader

I used a skill assignment similar to those recommended here and my presumptive leader with mining/judge of intent/consoler/appraiser/record-keeper/organizer was passed over for the weaponsmith/armorsmith. He was assigned outpost leader, manager, trader, and bookkeeper despite not having a single appropriate skill. And to really rub it it in, one of his traits is "never speaks out or attempts to direct activities." At least I was able to switch the jobs other than leader back to the right dwarf for the job (and I'm forcing the smith to smooth stone all day for his presumption.) One other factor that may have been involved is that the smith is friends with 5 others and the intended boss-dwarf has but one friend and one grudge. --Danny Rathjens 02:12, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

Items

Huh?

Is this still up to date? In the newest version of DF, you don't seem to spend money on skills, but rather use points from a collective pool. There doesn't seem to be enough points to even come close to creating the suggested group. I've never actually played a game (hence my consultation of the "first fortress" page), so I'm not sure if I'm just missing something, though. Any advice? --DuckAndCower 23:47, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Nevermind... I just realized I needed to remove items from the pool first. Maybe a note that you have to hit Tab to get to the items page would help? --DuckAndCower 23:52, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Beginning the Fortress

Intro

Wall of text

I think the "Beginning the Fortress" section isn't very pleasant to read. The bullet points help a bit, but I think numbered ones (matching the "TOC" above it) would be a bit more helpful. I'd however prefer to split the steps using numbered headlines, then it'd clearly define each step and automatically be indexed at the top. Thoughts? --TwoD 13:03, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

That's beyond me, but anyone who can should feel free to clean it up and make it as readable as possible. --BahamutZERO 01:37, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Trading

Anvil

The caravan is by no means guaranteed to bring an anvil the first year. (Out of ten games started and played through first year, I think I've gotten an anvil twice.) You can request one from the liason, though. I'd edit the entry myself, but I'm not certain how to word it without totally changing that whole paragraph.--Xazak 15:41, 11 November 2007 (EST)

I think that Humans always bring an anvil or two, but I may be wrong. Memo 17:02, 11 November 2007 (EST)

You are not correct, Memo. I've had fortresses that have gone anvil-less for 2 years before a Dwarven Caravan finally brought one (brought three, actually). Edit: The first year's caravans (Fall Dwarven, Spring Elven, and Summer Human) are largely randomized. I've seen vastly different products being brought in on all three of those, with roughly similar settlements and trade requests. --Nekojin 12:18, 14 November 2007 (EST)

Trading vs Growing

Is it just me, or is it much easier to teach people how to trade for food than it is to farm/grow/brew? I find one dedicated stonecrafter is more than enough to purchase all the food that can be possibly thrown at you, and will likely even be legendary by the time the second trade caravan comes along. For a "newb strategy" this might be the way to go instead of trying to explain floodgates and channels right off the bat. Weasello 10:50, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, but you're forgetting something. If a trade caravan gets ambushed or if they don't sell anything to you, then you're in trouble. And of course, trading with an Elf is like trying to get blood out of a stone.

My recommendation is to get food three ways; 1) Grow Plump Helmet 2) Fish 3) Kill animals for meat.AlexFili 07:43, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

Eeeeeexcept you don't know how to properly trade with the elves. As a general rule of thumb, if it once lived, don't sell it to them. Silk is fine, buy shit from the elves using the *cave spider silk sock*s you made from the dwarves' cave spider silk cloth that you bought with your *cat meat roast [40]*. --GreyMario 15:16, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

Alternately, trade them craploads of stonecrafts. I mean, there are two ways to clear a fortress of excess stone (stone blocks and stonecrafts), and one of them provides tradegoods, so stonecraft like mad. You'll get nice clean hallways too. Mechanisms would almost work, except they can't be binned. They're also a great early trade good, but elves will complain about the weight - you can unload a couple on the elves generally though if you clear them out (supplemented by lighter things, like... stonecrafts). Mechanisms are far better for doing things like buying metal bars and an anvil off the dwarf caravan, because they're more value/mass than those are.

You can also unload all those Narrow Giant Spider Silk loincloths you'll start collecting on elves, just make sure to check for blood spatters - elves don't like those too much.

--Squirrelloid 17:20, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

Office not required to meet with liaison

I met him in my barracks with no office built. :) --Danny Rathjens 02:00, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

I confirm. When I forgot to assign office to my Exp leader, he conducted meeting with liaison at meeting hall (designated from well)--Dorten 03:46, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

I also confirm, my leader's thoughts included 'was embarassed to hold a meeting in a dining room'.--Gemmy 13:35, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Despite having built an office for him, he refused to use it while he was still an expedition leader - and received no bad thought because of it. From a different game, after becoming mayor he does receive an embarassed thought if no office is assigned. --Squirrelloid 13:48, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

I fixed this in the article a week ago. Anydwarf 15:24, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Stockpiles

Moving refuse stockpile inside

Section about stockpiles recommends moving all stockpiles inside as soon as possible. It's wrong thing as it creates miasma if not handled properly. Best thing that can be done is either making custom stockpiles - one for bones/shells/skulls (inside, near craftdwarf shop) and one for rest (outside, near tanner), designing special anti-miasma room for refuse or order dwarves to dump rotting things into water/magma/chasm etc.

You dont understand the point - if your miasma creating stuff is usually put outside, the shit hits the fan one or another way when u have the first siege or even only ambush. Made this clearer in the article.--Koltom 21:36, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Just for an example, I store my refuge and graveyard in a nearby cave/mountain/basement. I usually make the corridors a bit more winding then usual, and I put a few doors in for an air-lock effect. a 5x5 refuge pit should be enough for the first year, and 1-3 coffins in the graveyard just in case. AlexFili 07:41, 30 April 2008 (EDT)