v50 Steam/Premium information for editors
  • v50 information can now be added to pages in the main namespace. v0.47 information can still be found in the DF2014 namespace. See here for more details on the new versioning policy.
  • Use this page to report any issues related to the migration.
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Difference between revisions of "Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Versions"

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==Revisiting Redirects==
 
==Revisiting Redirects==
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I wasn't around when the redirect policy was created, and I'm having trouble understanding the rationale. The example claims that linking [[Main:Cheese]] to [[cv:Cheese maker]] is problematic...but mainspace only ever redirects to the current version. If the best target in the current version is cheese maker, why not link to it directly? (It's not, at least for Cheese, since [[DF2012:Cheese]] exists now.) The explanation seems to be claiming that 40d articles that link to Cheese will follow the Mainspace link--but that hasn't been the case for a long while now. Articles in 40d automatically link against other articles in 40d, so that version remains internally consistent no matter where mainspace links to in the current version. For a current example, what do we gain by linking [[Main:Mead]] to [[cv:Mead]] and linking [[DF2012:Mead]] to [[DF2012:Alcohol]]?
 
I wasn't around when the redirect policy was created, and I'm having trouble understanding the rationale. The example claims that linking [[Main:Cheese]] to [[cv:Cheese maker]] is problematic...but mainspace only ever redirects to the current version. If the best target in the current version is cheese maker, why not link to it directly? (It's not, at least for Cheese, since [[DF2012:Cheese]] exists now.) The explanation seems to be claiming that 40d articles that link to Cheese will follow the Mainspace link--but that hasn't been the case for a long while now. Articles in 40d automatically link against other articles in 40d, so that version remains internally consistent no matter where mainspace links to in the current version. For a current example, what do we gain by linking [[Main:Mead]] to [[cv:Mead]] and linking [[DF2012:Mead]] to [[DF2012:Alcohol]]?
  
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If no one objects, I will make this change in a few days.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:21, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
 
If no one objects, I will make this change in a few days.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:21, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
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:Okay with me. It may be worth mentioning that double redirects only really need to be changed when they don't work (since changing a lot of redirects that work isn't necessary), but I think it's clearer and more relevant than the current policy. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 00:26, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
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Done.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:55, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
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I was finally able to get my extension to work after being motivated by one too many malfunctioning redirects. It now causes nonexistent pages in the main namespace to behave exactly like redirects to their DF2012 counterparts (when linked to, accessed directly, and transcluded). Double redirects also work (up to 100, in fact, although that was a temporary safety measure that I'll probably change). This means we'll be able to safely get rid of all mainspace redirects (redirects that redirect to something other than "cv" will still function if not deleted). &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 01:20, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
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:What about articles which don't exist in the current version but do exist in older versions? Will those still need mainspace redirects, or will your extension be able to automatically redirect them to v0.31/40d/23a? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 01:29, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
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::It ignores all mainspace pages that actually have content, including redirects, so pages like [[masons guild]] won't be affected (unless deleted). &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 01:47, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
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Done and deployed. [[Cat]] is still treated as a redirect, even though I just deleted it (try clicking on the "redirected from" link). Pages that exist are ignored, so [[Masons guild]] and [[History of Dwarf Fortress]] still function normally (as a redirect to a 23a page and a non-redirect, respectively). &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 18:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
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I'm sending around a bot right now to delete all redirects of the format "foo -> cv:foo" (a surprising number don't fit this format, so I'm leaving them alone for now). &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 20:43, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
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:I'm confused. Do we use double redirects or not? Is there a single place we define our linking policy (including redirects), and is it updated?
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:I had trouble linking to [[Consolidated_development]] in [[v0.34:Dragon]]. It kept pointing to v0.34:Consolidated_development, which does not exist. I ended up linking to Main:Consolidated_development to make it work. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] ([[User talk:Nahno|talk]]) 10:18, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
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::That's a separate problem altogether - links in the versioned namespaces (v0.34, v0.31, 40d, 23a) automatically link to pages within their namespace. I may be able to set up a fallback to mainspace once I'm able to deploy again, but for now the "main:" alias is the intended solution. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 11:36, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
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== Google often directs people to the 0.31 page ==
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I've noticed a couple of times that finding a wiki page from an external search will often drop me onto a page from an older version.  Is it possible to mitigate this somehow for new players?  I could imagine something like redirecting old:Bar -> cv:Bar unless the user has come from old:Foo; no idea if that would actually work though.  [[User:PeridexisErrant|PeridexisErrant]] ([[User talk:PeridexisErrant|talk]]) 11:48, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
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:As a temporary solution, I could write a script that displays a banner of some kind if the user came from an external site. I'll ask Briess if he can do anything on the server level to increase the weighting of the current version's pages. (Obviously there are situations where people are looking for old pages, like [[23a:dungeon master]], so we don't want to disable indexing entirely on old pages.) &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 17:03, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
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== DF2014? ==
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As Toady [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ draws closer to a new release], it might be worthwhile to discuss the addition of a new version to the wiki. The upcoming release covers two years of changes and introduces a number of new plants, foods, drinks, multi-tile trees, climbing, jumping, etc., so it is likely to have significant changes from the current DF2012. To avoid having people start new pages (and lose all the effort spent refining the prior version's page), I think it would be best to have a bot automatically copy over the DF2012 pages as a starting point for DF2014. I would suggest that these copied pages include a noticebox template mentioning that the content may be outdated, so that we can easily track which pages have been reviewed. I think either the {{tl|version check}} or {{tl|old}} template would work. --[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:43, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
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:This is what [[User:QuietBot]] did after the 0.34 release, so it's certainly possible to use the same script to migrate to DF2014. I would like a way of tagging migrated pages, since inaccuracies in some pages went unnoticed for months after they were migrated. Since {{tl|old}} is already in use, {{tl|version check}} may be a better solution (it can be reworded slightly, or we can make a separate template for DF2014 migration). &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 19:23, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
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:Made [[Template:DF2014 migrated]] as an example. Any thoughts? &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 19:32, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
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== Redirects inconsistency ==
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Following a redirect is supposed to be exactly the same as going straight to the page it redirects to, but this actually isn't the case:
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* Go to [[Seeds]] and you get [[v0.34:Seed]] (outdated)
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* Go to http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Seeds&redirect=no and click on the link and you get to [[DF2014:Seed]] (current)
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So if you search for "seed", the top result is the DF2014 version. But search for "seeds" and you get the redirect, which sends you to the outdated page instead. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 23:22, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
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While I'm talking about redirects, it seems redirects to sections don't work: see [[DF2014:How do I manage my seeds and crops]]. I know MediaWiki is capable of this trick because Wikipedia does it. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 23:32, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
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:I have absolutely no idea why [[seeds]] redirects to a v0.34 page - it could be a Mediawiki bug. The section links issue is due to a known issue in the redirect extension we use, which has yet to be fixed. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 00:01, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
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:It looks like deleting both [[Seeds]] and [[DF2014:Seeds]] fixed things (by allowing AutoRedirect to handle the redirects instead). Feel free to tag any others with {{tl|bad redirect}}. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 00:03, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
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::It gets stranger. [[Vial]] redirects explicitly to [[cv:Flask]] which displays (when you look at it with &redirect=no) as [[DF2014:Flask]], but still goes to the v0.34 version. It seems redirects interpret the cv: pseudo-namespace (or whatever it's called) in an outdated way. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 18:08, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
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::I've added a note to this page about this issue. If it gets resolved, the note should be removed. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 21:04, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
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==Reorganizing versions==
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The internet deals with moved content... poorly. Google is still linking to v0.34 pages more than a year after the switch to "DF2014", and even the wiki software still has cached links pointing to the old version pages.
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I propose reorganizing versions on the wiki to avoid moving content whenever possible. Instead of having a temporary "current version" namespace that changes occasionally, all the current information gets promoted to the Main namespace. When the next version split occurs, the Main articles as of a certain revision number can be copied to the newly-created permanent "old version" namespace, while all the current information remains in Main. This not only fixes the link rot issue, but it has a few other benefits as well: fewer administrative tasks, no lockdown (a historical version of the Main pages can be copied at any point, even if the Main articles are already modified for the new version), almost all the article history is maintained in the Main article (instead of being spread unevenly across multiple versions), no "temporary" namespaces are needed, fewer problematic long redirect chains, and hopefully less user confusion (since Main gets priority in search results, etc.).
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As an example, today we would not have a DF2014 namespace (which is good because "temporary" namespaces historically disappear anyway). If you ran a search for [[seed]] you'd end up at Main:seed, which would have all the current information on seeds. The version box at the top of the page would still link to the older versions of the seed article. When a new version is released, an admin would choose a revision number and copy the Main:seed article as it exists at that revision number to v0.40:seed. That's it. One historical copy that needs little to no new editing, and zero redirections/moves.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:02, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
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:Makes sense to me. It would involve a lot of work, though (e.g. fixing templates and categories to account for the current version being in mainspace), although that should be doable thanks to {{tl|category}}, {{tl|version switch}}, etc.. A bot could be set up to copy revisions from before a release date as well, which would be more difficult (and maybe slower) than a direct copy, but not severely. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 17:24, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
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:Actually, there are a few issues with that, namely that there wouldn't be an easy way to distinguish between versioned and non-versioned mainspace pages. There are ways to resolve Google search priority (we can exclude pages from older versions from search engine results if there are newer versions of those pages available, for example). &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 19:47, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
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::There aren't very many non-versioned mainspace pages, and determining if a page is versioned is as simple as looking for the version template and/or categories added by the version template (e.g. copy [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:Current this category] instead of Main:*). The problem with "suggesting" newer pages to Google is that they obviously aren't crawling our wiki regularly (if they were, the fact that the mainspace redirects point to new pages would automatically be picked up). Even if your Google hints worked they wouldn't do anything for all the other broken links out on the 'net.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:35, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
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::: Google actually crawls the wiki constantly - we probably get crawl hits from google for a continuous block of 2-3 hours per day, each and every day. Why they are slow to update is beyond me though. I can't remember why we didn't do this initially, but there was a technical limitation involved if I remember correctly. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] ([[User talk:Briess|talk]]) 22:05, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
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::: There are &lt;meta> tags that can be used to hide pages from search results (for search engines that recognize them, that is). Searching for {{tl|av}} or [[:Category:Current]] might work, although we'd have to make sure all of the DF2014 pages include that (some pages don't, particularly some disambiguation pages, although all of them should). &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 22:53, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
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:Is there a particular reason main and current are separate to begin with?—[[User:CLA|CLA]] ([[User talk:CLA|talk]]) 00:17, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
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::It's mostly intended to distinguish between versioned and non-versioned pages and make version-related templates simpler to work with, since every versioned page has a namespace. I wasn't active here in 2010 when this system was created, so Briess and Emi would know more.
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::Another issue I just thought of with Loci's suggestion is categories - currently, categories like [[:Category:Animals]] are used to organize the versioned sub-categories. Sure, we can change {{tl|Category}} to categorize mainspace pages in [[:Category:v0.40:Animals]] or [[:Category:DF2014:Animals]], but that would be less straightforward because there wouldn't be a namespace with that name (until pages are migrated when a newer major version is released). &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 13:05, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
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:Moving current pages to the main namespace sounds like a great idea. -[[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] ([[User talk:Jecowa|talk]]) 20:47, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
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Another thought: dealing with migrating redirects could be difficult with this proposal - specifically, determining which redirects should be migrated to a versioned namespace. Redirects can't contain {{tl|av}}, at least not before ``#REDIRECT``. I ''think'' it would be possible to copy pages in two stages, though - all non-redirects first, then all redirects whose targets were also copied. Thoughts? Anything I'm missing? &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 23:41, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
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Some subpages (particularly /raw and /Edit notice) also deliberately lack {{tl|av}}, although those shouldn't be too hard to handle. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 00:35, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
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:Redirect pages (and all other edge cases I've looked at) can be included in categories (like [[:Category:Current]]) to determine whether or not they should be copied into an archival version. But if the redirects are "properly qualified" then they can all be copied over blindly. Mainspace redirects pointing to versioned information should use a blank namespace (which will be automatically constrained to the archival namespace); mainspace redirects pointing to unversioned information should use an explicit "Main" (which will automatically link back to the unversioned page). Then, when [[[[Toady]]]] gets copied to [[[[v0.4x:Toady]]]] it will point back to [[[[Main:Toady One]]]]. Meanwhile, [[[[Beer]]]], copied to [[[[v0.4x:Beer]]]], will properly point to [[[[v0.4x:Alcohol]]]].--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 20:00, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
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::I think qualifying redirects is the best solution here - categorizing redirects manually is another possible source of errors, since categories (or a lack thereof) would only be visible on the redirect page itself, and [[:Category:Current]] is a hidden category. Copying over mainspace redirects into versioned namespaces would also resolve some issues that have come up due to those not reliably existing currently. I should be able to set up a bot script to add "main:" to current mainspace redirects (and it shouldn't break anything, since those redirects go to other mainspace pages anyway). &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 21:57, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
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(Note: I wrote all of this without noticing the previous discussion above.) I was wondering, when the wiki creates a new namespace for a major release again, if it is possible to ''not'' create a namespace for the next current version (e.g. "DF202x") and instead have the mainspace articles (which are currently redirects) become the new cv and move the content there. Therefore, [[cv:Cat]] would just be "[[Cat]]" (or [[Main:Cat]]).
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Certain namespace-related templates like [[Template:Ns/0]] would need to be changed, though nothing significant as far as I know. For most cases, any "DF2014" would be replaced with "Main" or even blank. There's also multiple extensions handling the current namespace system and they may need to be modified too, though I'm not sure if or how much. I'm guessing based on the discussions above that it will change stuff up.
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My reason is the current namespace is increasingly becoming more anachronistic. "DF2014" could be misinterpreted as "this page is about the 2014 version of the game" or "this page was last updated in 2014", which I've seen a few people in forums mention. Granted that [[Template:Av]] is on the top of very article, I still think the namespace is inconsistent with the recentness of the article. But how is this related to what I'm asking for? Let's say we continue the current system: if we happen to do a new namespace change this year and create DF2020, the next major release (after graphics/UI) will be mythgen, which is estimated to take several years to develop (the Big Wait), and so the anachronism will start over again. The proposed way will prevent this from occurring for the next major release and every release thereafter.
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I think the confusion with having a namespace that becomes old-fashioned overtime supersedes the confusion with not marking current versioned articles with a namespace. Most users just search "Cat" on the search bar and naturally expect to get information about the latest release of DF. So if users go a page that's just titled "Cat", they won't expect outdated info about cats from a previous release. That's how the current system works anyways. We'll be skipping the two-step process that we have now. It'll make several wiki tasks much simpler as well. Editors can create new articles for current versions without remembering to add a namespace. It'll fix any existing issues with (double) redirects; instead of [[Main:Kitten]] redirecting to [[cv:Kitten]], which goes to [[DF2014:Kitten]], which then redirects to [[DF2014:Cat]], [[Main:Kitten]] would just redirect to [[Main:Cat]]. And the cv: alias will no longer be necessary since "cv:" = "Main:" and will be forever.
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There's no need to differentiate the current version and previous versions with a namespace for the current version is what I'm saying. Articles of previous versions will retain their respective namespaces. Users will still type "40d:Cat" to go to the 40d version of the article, but if they want the current version, they'll just type "Cat" (like now). The mainspace containing the "live" version of an article is natural and would create no uncertainty when browsing the wiki. And it would simplify the wiki somewhat and future-proof this anachronism problem. As a bonus, this change will also prevent web search engines from showing previous version pages when typing "DF cat" or something. (This isn't happening right now as DF2014 has been the current namespace for ~6 years, but it'll happen again when everything moves to a new namespace.)
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This is the gist of it, and I may have ignored most of the problems with this proposal. I have personally wished for the whole version namespacing be made less complicated and have been seeking for a solution, and I feel like this is the best way to go about in the future. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:27, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
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:<s>Whoops, looks like Loci already proposed this exact thing long ago. I definitely missed that discussion and should have checked first. My apologies. I'll move my text to that section and remove this one. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:36, 14 August 2020 (UTC)</s> Done. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 21:40, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
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:The main issue I have with that is that putting pages about the current version in a namespace also differentiates between those pages and pages not about ''any'' version (for example, [[Toady One]] does not need a 40d or v0.34 page). Yes, we can use {{tl|av}} to mark versioned pages, but people often forget to add that to new pages. The current system also allows determining whether a page is versioned or not from its title, which makes migrations a lot faster. Relying on {{tl|av}} would require either reading the content of every page (which would slow scripts down significantly) or cross-checking with the list of all pages including the template (feasible, but a bit more complicated, and still susceptible to missing templates). I suppose that manually fixing and migrating pages missing {{tl|av}} later wouldn't be too much work, though.
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:I am definitely in favor of changing "DF2014" (or a new namespace) to "Current", though. I was in favor of "DF2014" in 2014, but I don't think it makes sense anymore, and "Current" seemed to be a popular alternative in both the DF2012 and DF2014 discussions on the matter. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 04:02, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
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== Weird redirect behaviour ==
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[[Pump stack]] redirects to [[cv:Screw pump#Pump stack]]. If you look at the redirect itself it says it redirects to DF2014 namespace, which is correct. But if you actually follow the redirect, it goes to v0.34 namespace. [[User:Hairy Dude|Hairy Dude]] ([[User talk:Hairy Dude|talk]]) 16:10, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
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:Yeah, that's part of the issue described in the above section (the wiki caching part, not on Google's end.) &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 15:00, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
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== v50 organization ==
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Some wiki admins have had a talk on Discord and decided that the most sustainable path forward is to put content for all future versions of DF in the main namespace. We will be working on a bot to do this in the next few days. Feel free to chime in with suggestions here. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 22:56, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
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:Is it maybe possible to do backwards-namespacing? Like we have a "Main" namespace, which people are free to update, and whenever there's a new version of DF the "Main" namespace is copied into a namespace for the then old version, much like how you'd branch a stable branch from a development branch when working with a git-project? [[User:Therahedwig|Therahedwig]] ([[User talk:Therahedwig|talk]]) 23:13, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
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::Yeah, we could do that if we decide to. We were talking about doing that for v50, actually, and might still do something similar to preserve edit history if it doesn't end up being too hard to automate. Our hope is that we will not introduce new namespaces for v50 -> v5x, unless there is a serious breaking change (and hopefully there isn't one). But if we change our mind, one advantage of the type of migration you mentioned is that it can be done retroactively - we can copy historical revisions that were current at the time of the release, and would only lose some typo fixes made after the release that apply to earlier versions as well. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 02:11, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
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ETA is < 24 hours. Doing some final checks on a migration script. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 07:08, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
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: We should really have a task list as there are many things that change and need updating. Including but not limited to:
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:* Most templates that used the previous namespace convention broke, including nav templates.
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:* Many game files changed locations and their pages need to be updated.
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:* Raws need to be updated.
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:* Various features added, changed, removed.
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:* UI has been changed  -- though I am more inclined to wait for classic release to avoid extra work --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 06:56, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
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"''Raws need to be updated.''" Including applying text wraparound where necessary, I suppose - more than a few of them have proven to be that special kind of...''difficult'' to navigate otherwise, shall we say? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
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:There is already a task list in the [[#v50 migration|section below]] that includes templates and raws, with an explanation. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 16:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
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== v50 migration ==
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The initial migration script is done. New content is in the '''main''' namespace, e.g. [[Cat]]. Old content is still at [[DF2014:Cat]]. History was migrated to the ''new'' (main namespace) articles.
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I know several things are broken still. Please reply if you find any others:
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<div style="border-left: 2px solid red">
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* <s>Versioned templates haven't been migrated yet (e.g. {{tl|vermin}} on [[Ant]])</s>
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** Fixed. Most were migrated by a bot.
 +
* <s>Raws are missing on all pages that use them.</s>
 +
** This also affects sidebars, such as on [[Cat]] and [[Microcline]].
 +
** Update: The DFRawFunctions extension has been upgraded to include v50 raws, using the "v50:" prefix for filenames instead of "DF2014:". <s>I haven't finished a migration script to create the /raw pages themselves, but they can typically be created manually by copying the DF2014 /raw pages and changing "DF2014" to "v50" everywhere.</s> &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 20:20, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 +
** Update 2: Raws have been added for all pages! They were copied from the "DF2014" pages and had "DF2014" replaced with "v50", which appears to have worked from a spot-check, but let me know if you find any problems. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 05:57, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 +
* Some pages where the DF2014 page was a redirect to a main namespace page that contained content were migrated incorrectly.
 +
** In this case, the main namespace page is usually a redirect to itself. This can be fixed by undoing LethosorBot's edit to the main namespace page, then copying the content to the DF2014 page.
 +
** Update: most seem to have been fixed manually - thanks! &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 19:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
* <s>Some main-namespace talk pages redirect to DF2014 talk pages. Some of these redirects work, and some (usually older ones) do not.</s>
 +
** Fixed with a bot. Some redirects from talk pages to other deleted talk pages are now broken, e.g. [[Talk:Above_ground]] (exists) -> [[Talk:Tile attributes]] (redlink). I am leaving them like that because they redirect to where the talk page should be created, but I'm also fine with people deleting them if they really want to. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 19:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
* {{tl|quality}} for new articles is disabled (see below)
 +
* Some links from DF2014 to Main weren't working: e.g. the version selector [[DF2014:Mason's workshop]] was linking to [[DF2014:Main:Mason's workshop]] instead of [[Main:Mason's workshop]]. I'm not sure exactly why, but I fixed it with a change to the NamespaceLinks extension. Let me know if you spot similar broken links. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 23:19, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
</div>
 +
 +
&mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 04:54, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
:The quality levels of the 50.03 pages seem to be missing. I'm not sure if that's covered under that first point. [[User:Trainzack|Trainzack]] ([[User talk:Trainzack|talk]]) 06:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
::If the the [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Quality]] feature can be made to work with namespace scheme change, I suggest to automatically assign the lowest quality rating to all pages, alternately add the {{tl|old}} to all pages. Otherwise there will be a lot of pages that will fall through the cracks. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:12, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
:::I disabled {{tl|quality}} in the main namespace because it would require some rework to make the rating script and the template work properly there. Feel free to take a stab at the template. I will see what can be done on the extension side. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 21:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
::::What needs to be done on the template side? I'm not sure I see too big of an issue leaving pages as "unknown-quality" for now (or just change the default to tattered) until we get the rating script working. Is that script up anywhere, anything that could be helped with? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 11:10, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 +
:::::They're already marked as unknown. Really the only issue I know of with the template is that it doesn't show up with some of the newer skins we added, and that can be fixed by getting rid of the absolute positioning. As for the script, it can be found at https://github.com/DF-Wiki/QualityRatings, and the issue is really only with the configuration system not recognizing the main namespace as valid. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 02:29, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 +
::::::Great, I started having a crack at fixing the template with different themes. Is the preference to get some CSS going and then include it in the global stylesheet (i.e different styles per theme) or to try and get a "one size fits all" fix? &mdash;[[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 08:14, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 +
:::::::I would rather avoid custom site-wide CSS if we can. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 03:29, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 +
::::::::I appreciate that, I think it's the simplest solution to add a few lines to common.css though. Unless there is a way to attach CSS specifically to a template, I saw a few extensions that allowed that but I'm not sure if any are present in the wiki at the moment. Regardless there already exists a class `div.topicon` that is specifically for the quality ratings, is there an issue with expanding this class to accommodate the themes? The list of themes where the quality rating display is broken/invisible: Citizen, MinervaNeue, MonoBook. &mdash;[[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 21:48, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 +
:::::::::What do you think of moving the template out of the topicon entirely and just placing it in a div? It would take up a (hopefully) small amount of vertical space in the article. [[User:Lethosor/Sandbox/Quality_test]] is an example. Unfortunately it isn't possible to prevent other templates from displaying above the quality this way ([https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User:Lethosor/Sandbox/Quality_test&oldid=283883]). So maybe we do need some custom CSS after all if we want that. I'm open to trying out whatever you propose. I'm a bit worried about future-proofing against skins we add later (particularly a mobile skin) but at least MediaWiki supports skin-specific global CSS as well. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 00:33, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 +
::::::::::I would rather we avoid taking any more vertical space in the article. The growing block pyramid at the top, starting with version template, is annoying. If you end up placing it inside the article space please use a slim box 100% wide that would include both.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 01:19, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 +
:::::::::::Agreed with you Jan, however I see that as two different tasks (ArticleVersion template changes, getting quality back on pages). I made a test adjustment to the quality and it takes up a negligable amount of extra space. See [[User:Vallode/sandbox#Page_quality]] for the example, we'd be able to completely remove "topicon" (unless it is used somewhere else?) and then potentially move on to making the ArticleVersion template into a slim version on the left-hand-side instead of a large box? Let me know what you think. --[[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 17:35, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 +
:::::::::::: Sorry, I just noticed this, I hope you weren't waiting on me. I haven't looked into how it works. All I can say that it would be nice if it shows on main, it is annoying that it shows on discussion and history. And otherwise I think that those negligible spaces adds up when you have multiple notice, redirection etc templates and would prefer if you can [https://ibb.co/X7X7SjL condense all of it] somehow. I also had [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/User:Jan/sandbox#Misc_variants couple of ideas] on that front, but as dev designer you probably can come up with something more refined if this is direction you choose. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 00:50, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 +
 +
 +
It appears some pages are redirecting recursively and never resolving correctly, like the [[https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Character_table&redirect=no|character table]] and [[tileset repository]] 07:35, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
: Indeed, these can be caught here: [[Special:DoubleRedirects]] --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:51, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
 +
It might be useful to change the notice title to "release information '''for editors'''" --[[Special:Contributions/142.59.195.176|142.59.195.176]] 10:26, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
:Can do. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
::New here, hello. Should we set a date where we remove/only show the banner for logged in users. There are (some) pages that have 4 different notices about the upgrade. [[Engraving]] is one such page, the top banner states "information for editors", we then have the "this page was migrated" banner, a version selection which warns the article might be inaccurate, and a smaller banner saying the page might need to be updated. Quite a lot of screen space, I think we can start to slowly reduce the amount of warnings this coming month? [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 10:07, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 +
:::Unfortunately, only showing info to logged-in users is difficult with how MediaWiki caching works. In terms of reducing warnings, there is a discussion [[Template_talk:ArticleVersion#.22Note_that_some_content_may_still_need_to_be_updated..22|here]]. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 21:43, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 +
:::As for [[Engraving]] specifically, the {{tl|old}} banner was actually present on [[DF2014:Engraving]] as well and got carried over with the migration. I removed it, and agree that it was redundant. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 21:46, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 +
 +
Main talkpages seem to redirect to DF2014 talk. Not sure if it is intentional but I like it, though we should pay attention when creating new discussion relating to v50 ending up there.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 14:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
:That's unintentional. I specifically wrote the migration script to not move talk pages, but that has the side-effect of leaving any previously-created "Talk -> DF2014 talk" redirects intact. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
 +
Yo Lethosor, are we adding graphic sprites for the pages in some way? Or are we waiting for you to add some sort of new template or something? I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that the current templates don't allow that. Not sure if I'm allowed to change/create any templates either, as I don't want to break things for hundreds of pages. Edit: And IF the icons are allowed, should they be left alone, or 2×-3× sized like how the Minecraft wiki does it? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 14:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
:Depends on which templates you mean. There are copyright concerns with uploading a premium sprite sheet, for instance. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 16:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
::I'm not talking about uploading an entire sprite sheet. I'm just talking about individual icons for each respective page. One image for cows, one for horses, one for werebeasts, etc. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 16:50, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
:::If we do that for every creature in the sprite sheet, that's not much different (in terms of copyright) from uploading the entire sprite sheet. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 17:09, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
::::Is there someone we can talk to about that? We finally get this new game with graphics, and then we can't use the very graphics of the game? No matter what the rules are, I'd say that would be the stupidest thing ever. I know I'm infamous here when it comes to copyright and images and stuff, but about 80% of game wikis out there are completely unofficial, and use game file images like no one's business. I can't imagine anyone's door being knocked on if we used the game's sprites, but I won't add any here until we have a go-ahead. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 17:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
 +
:::::...I've made noise in Mayday's direction on this matter, at least (prob an incorrect maneuver, ''but'').[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 17:55, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
:::::: I hope some sort of arrangement can be made so we can use the new sprites with permission/limits, just as we are using the raw files. Otherwise we are all (devs and editors alike) shooting ourselves in the foot here.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 21:07, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
 +
:::::::I just thought of something. We're supposedly not allowed to upload entire sprite sheets, right? What if - for the time being - we just use a few of them for the purpose of testing out new infoboxes? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:46, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
::::::::I don't know. If someone could ask Kitfox and post the response here, that would be great. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 21:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
 +
:::::::::I've reached out to Alexandra, but she hasn't answered yet. Until then I found these old approvals from the previous community manager, Feeona: ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.msg8243633#msg8243633 link1], [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176640.msg8243642#msg8243642 link2]). Waiting for a newer response until we begin mass uploads is probably the politer option, but like Zippy said, it is also standard for wikis to use game sprites with less approval. I second their idea of trying it out with a few images to test the infoboxes. On the extreme off-chance (and I do think it is) Kitfox protests we can always remove these few. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 22:19, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
:::::::::And here is a third, more official statement: ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.msg8249718#msg8249718 link3]). Perhaps that address of info@kitfoxgames.com is the better channel to ask for a confirmation, rather than Discord DMs, but I will be going to bed, so it is best if someone else does that. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 22:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
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::::::::::Thanks for tracking this down! Ok, sprites should be fine, but let's avoid uploading the entire premium tileset as a single image, for instance (as the forum thread says, "use common sense"). &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 00:21, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
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::::::::::: Looks good, permission is always preferable over fairuse, I think it is a win win for all involved. I agree that we shouldn't upload entire sprite sheets (e.g. there is no reason to upload the windmill from every direction or whole construction phase for workshops) and that there are a lot of details that needs to be ironed out through testing. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 05:07, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
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:::::::::We have a green light on uploading all and any sprites. Their response to me can be seen [https://i.imgur.com/BhmHjzC.png here]. I'm sure someone else confirmed it before me. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:00, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
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 +
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Shifting temporarily to a new issue, is the documentation of [[Template:ArticleVersion]] outdated? It would seem so to me, since the current version no longer has its own namespace, with the templates needing updating being different ones. --[[User:Voliol|Voliol]] ([[User talk:Voliol|talk]]) 18:30, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
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:I think it is still accurate enough. We left open the possibility of making another namespace in the future, albeit with a different migration strategy - see [[#v50 organization|above]]. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 21:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
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 +
Some Changes to infoboxes might be needed. Too bad [[User:Doorkeeper]] isn't around. He did a great work with navbox project--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:52, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
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 +
I just realized that raw files aren't stored as regular wiki pages but loaded via the DFRawFunctions extension (hence the need to update). Good news it's going to be handled in bulk, consistently and relatively easy to updated. Even better it's Lethosor problem ;) Also I just realized that all the "raw files" (txt files in the new vanilla folder) are released into the public domain.  Both are probably not news to the vets but I'll leave it here for those who less up to date like myself. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:35, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
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 +
: I noticed that some templates aren't working properly in the new namespace, e.g. [[Basalt]] entry had its raw updated manually but the infobox fail to show any details. Cursory look suggest {{t|layerlookup/0}} need a minor tweak. This should do the work
 +
:: Replace: <nowiki>{{layerlookup/aux|{{{{FULLPAGENAME}}/raw}}|uses={{{uses|}}}|wiki={{{wiki|}}}}}</nowiki>
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:: With___: <nowiki>{{layerlookup/aux|{{</nowiki><span style="color:red; font-weight:bold;">:</span><nowiki>{{FULLPAGENAME}}/raw}}|uses={{{uses|}}}|wiki={{{wiki|}}}}}</nowiki>
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: Not sure what the plan and ETA with raws update so I didn't touch this high usage template for now. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 08:11, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
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::Please do feel free to make this update. I am still working on a script to create the <code>/raw</code> pages themselves. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 03:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
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Wouldn't it be an idea to add to the Sitenotice to remove the {{tl|migrated article}} tag when an article has been fully updated? I see many articles that seem to be updated still have the tag. And/or advise to make use of the {{tl|verify}} for sections still in need of checking? --[[User:Halavus|Halavus]] ([[User talk:Halavus|talk]]) 10:12, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
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:Probably a good shout. The "see this page" link does include the detail on removing but we should more explicitly encourage removing the banner once a page has at least been looked over. [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 11:01, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 +
 +
== v50 specific issues ==
 +
=== Graphics===
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Follow up on the use of game sprites and the need to trying it out with a few images to test the infoboxes. First sprite [[:File:Beds v50.png]] was uploaded and used on [[Bed]] entry. Any thoughts? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 18:06, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
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:Seems like it should be rearranged to be horizontal. Also, has there been a serious discussion about copyright? Full screenshots are 100% fine, but you start going into a grey area when you upload pieces of a spritesheet. I'm of the opinion that it's all fine as long as it's inconvenient to reconstruct the full sheet from the individual images. Maybe a further restriction could be you shouldn't upload any of the art unless it's used in an infobox (maybe an exception for pieces of the UI). And one more restriction could be you shouldn't show everything, like in your bed example, maybe just the wooden bed is good enough, leave out the stone and metal, <small>especially since those can only be made from strange moods</small>. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:43, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
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::Actually, your bed image is kinda bad for showing off what a bed looks like because it doesn't show the pillow/blankets. That might point to cropped screenshots being the best path, although less convenient for the uploader, as you don't get details left out. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 18:46, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
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::I created a new license template [[Template:Copyright game]], based it on the way the RimWorld wiki does things. Call it a prototype, but it's probably how your bed image should be labelled. Indeed, I added it to it already. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]])
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 +
::: I agree that the horizontal arrangement would suit better here and that we should strive to represent how things look in-game. Otherwise, I am not too concerned about people being able to reconstruct anything (lets just say that ''anyone'' interested in that can get the real thing from the game files), also it seem we have permission to use the sprits on top of fairuse. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 19:55, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
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::: Modifying the existing template to allow the inclusion of the new sprites is easy (Something like [https://ibb.co/zFXCrjd this]?) The big question is the matter of consistency is there any exceptions that will break the format (size wise with variant bloat for example), the sprite naming format, etc --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:44, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
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::: If we are going to show a variant for each material type, then maybe these should be added as separate images so we can add a tooltip for each image. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 20:49, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
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 +
:I've got another prototype going here and here: [[User:Brightgalrs/vector.css]] and [[User:Brightgalrs/Sandbox]]. (You'll need to add the css stuff to your own /vector.css). Basically it's a way to recolor images using css classes. No idea if there's a better way. Also, the real implementation would require a change to [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
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:Should mention, there ''is'' a different way, just upload each image 16 times, one for each coloring. But maybe that's not very elegant. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:45, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
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 +
: It should be noted that soon the classic edition will be released, hence one should plan to have both the Premium and classic alongside in that little space --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 03:14, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
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::I'm looking into a tab extension to potentially support this in infoboxes. Perhaps [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Tabs Extension:Tabs]? I tried [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TabberNeue Extension:TabberNeue], but it displays a placeholder if JavaScript is disabled, which isn't great. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 04:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
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::: The Neue Tabber seem to works pretty much like the old one (which fandom [https://coding-help.fandom.com/wiki/Tabber#Adding_images_into_tabbers still use]) defaulting to showing the first tab only. Quick look suggest that neue work the same, plus the notice that 'Tabber requires Javascript to function' warning? if so, and if it is a bother, then you should be able to edit out the tabberneue-noscript string in code. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 06:29, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
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::: I much prefer your tabber solution, but if that fails we can also use the gallery slideshow mode. If so, beware it has no way to control image size so the images have to be maliciously uploaded using the exact same size. example:
 +
<gallery mode="slideshow">
 +
File:SteelSample.png
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File:TinSample.png
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File:ZincSample.png
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File:GoldSample.png
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</gallery> --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:19, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
 +
 +
==== adding premium set to Infobox ====
 +
I am unclear where are we going with this? <br>
 +
1) Will (A) tabs be implemented, (B) we be using mediawiki toggle [[Template_talk:V50_workshop|example]] for premium and classic/blocked, (c) put images side by side, or (d) something else?<br>
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2) Also [[silver]] and [[Pig iron]] use very different image style for example.<br>
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3) Anything else you want ? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 12:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
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: Personally, I would love tabs to be implemented, but I think that side by side might be best for most. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 12:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
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: Here is rough layout we can use. It should fit most buildings given the default sprite size. There is also a different floor plan for both (inspired by reddit)
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 +
{|
 +
|- valign=top
 +
|
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{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse; "
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|+ 5×5
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|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc; "
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|<div class="mw-customtoggle-infoboxtab mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="border-top-right-radius: 10px; border-top-left-radius:10px;">toggle</div>
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|{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}
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|- valign=top
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|colspan=2|<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">
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[[File:Siege workshop.png|center|160px]]</div>
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<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab"">
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{|
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|rowspan=2 style="width:50%; font-size: 125%;"|<center>{{Template:Picture Siege workshop}}</center>
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|style="line-height: 1em; font-size: 125%;"|
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{| style="border-spacing:4px;"
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| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
|-
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
|-
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
|-
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#86878a; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
|-
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
| style="width:12px; height:12px;  background-color:#b7b9bd; border:1px solid #545557;"|
 +
|}
 +
|-
 +
| style="text-align: center;" | Layout
 +
|}
 +
</div>
 +
|}
 +
|
 +
{| style="width:200px; background-color:#eaecf0; border-collapse: collapse; "
 +
|+ 3×3
 +
|- style="border-bottom:2px solid #3366cc; "
 +
|colspan=2 style="text-align: right;"|<div class="mw-customtoggle-infoboxtab mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="float:left; border-top-right-radius: 10px; border-top-left-radius:10px;">toggle</div><span style="padding-top:5px; text-align: right;">{{Tooltip|Hotkey|adasdasdasd}}: {{Key|b|o|g}}</span>
 +
|- valign=top
 +
|rowspan=2 style="width:50%;"|
 +
<div class="mw-collapsible" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab">[[File:Carpenter's workshop.png]]</div>
 +
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" id="mw-customcollapsible-infoboxtab""><center>
 +
{| style="font-size: 175%; border-spacing: 0; background-color: black; border: 2px solid black"
 +
|- <!-- raw tile changes adds padding and margin -->
 +
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
 +
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|"|7:0:0}}
 +
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|{{=}}|6:0:0}}
 +
|-
 +
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
 +
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
 +
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"|
 +
|-
 +
| style="padding: 0; line-height: 1em"| {{Raw Tile|░|0:7:1}}
 +
| style="padding: 0; li