Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Scamps

2010-12-21T05:05:10Z

612DwarfAvenue: /* 2010 RAWs? */

== [buildingdestroyer] inconsistancy ==
This page is not consistant with the buildingdestroyer article, this page claims that scamps is a level 1 building destroyer but the buildingdestroyer page claims scamps is a level 2 building destroyer

: I updated it. --[[User:Bombcar|Bombcar]] 23:33, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

== Please do not delete this ==

This is just meant for fun. Keep in my the DF Wiki is not help up to the same standards as Wikipedia. Thanks! --[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 08:10, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
:I have an enourmous problem with this page... Scamps needs his own RAWs! Also, he doesn't have a tail, which is worthy of note--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 11:46, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Aieee! It menaces with spikes of cutite! It is decorated with stripes of adorablemite! Urist McTuffguy stops activity, interrupted by kitten.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:23, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

But we do need to remove the link for page for scamps on wikipedia, if they keep reverting it out of existance it's going to get protected in non existance and sombody peeved at us. --[[User:Nightwind|Nightwind]] 00:10, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
:Done. --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 02:24, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

== To: whoever it was ==

who added "the shoe is making a plaintive gesture"

You, sir, are a king among men. I laughed a that for longer than I should've. [[User:FangXianfu|FangXianfu]] 17:46, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

== Looks like we have a pref string for scamps ==

from the news:

Scamps was scratching at the guitar strings while the guitar was in its stand. I was going to go stop him when he managed to pluck a very solid A, at which point he stopped messing around and let it ring out. I will look forward to future hits assuming the strings don't start breaking.

--[[User:Nightwind|Nightwind]] 11:54, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

== Ahhh! Hyper cat! ==

Who added [buildingdestroyer] and made Scamps' bite as powerful as carp?
I would not want to be attacked by a wild Scamp!
:Look at it this way - [[Toady One]] is the most powerful being in Dwarf Fortress, as he created [[Armok]] and the entire dwarven multiverse - and he can be interrupted by Scamps! --[[User:Bombcar|Bombcar]] 07:07, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

== Hmmm ==

Scamps is [NOT_BUTCHERABLE], but that infobox shows buchering results. Shouldn't that be "rotting leaves", etc?--[[User:Aescula|Aescula]] 05:35, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== 2010 RAWs? ==

Anyone working on 31.xx RAWs for Scamps? --[[User:612DwarfAvenue|612DwarfAvenue]] 05:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Scamps

2010-12-21T05:02:32Z

612DwarfAvenue: /* 2010 RAWs? */

Talk:Scamps

2010-12-21T05:01:18Z

612DwarfAvenue:

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2010-04-18T06:20:13Z

612DwarfAvenue: /* HFS creatures */

{{Archive|
# [[Talk:Main Page/archive1|Archive 1]]
}}

== HFS creatures ==
We don't seem to have any pages for them, shouldn't they have pages like normal creatures? --[[Special:Contributions/78.151.176.4|78.151.176.4]] 13:09, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:Aren't they randomly generated during worldgen?--[[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 13:29, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
Oh right, didn't realise that. Thought that they were just lacking raws. --[[Special:Contributions/92.29.248.178|92.29.248.178]] 14:42, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, you're both right :P. They're randomly generated, and they lack raws! --[[User:612DwarfAvenue|612DwarfAvenue]] 06:20, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not familiar with how the Special:Random function works, but would it be possible to restrict it to random pages from particular namespaces? Getting 23a, 40d and DF2010 pages returned isn't very helpful. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 16:27, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:That would require (iirc) some fairly heavy editing to the mediawiki code. We're trying to avoid modding the code because that creates problems with updating the mediawiki software to new versions. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 18:51, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
::Just a little correction, you an get to just DF2010 pages by appending "/DF2010" to the end of special random.
:: For example. [[Special:Random/DF2010]], [[Special:Random/Utility]], ect.
:: Perhaps this link might be useful as a more available link? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 00:19, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

== DF2010 Title needs changing ==

The new version is now df_31_01 and each article beginning with "DF2010" seems tacky. Any others agree it should be changed to df31 or something around like that? [[User:Richards|Richards]] 19:59, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
:The problem is that we version the wiki for each game-save compatibility change. Simply changing it to 31.01 would fix it now, but when 31.02 - 39.07 come out, and then finally 40.01 comes out that breaks save compatibility, we have much more work to do. Until we know the final version number in the series, it's not easy for us to just say "oh, this is it." --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 20:02, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
::And wtf is the precedent? In all the versions of the wiki I've seen, versions are always specified as the actual number. How is it more clear to use DF2010 instead of v0.31.01? --Peewee 09:57, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

:If you aren't planning to make more special version namespaces for a while, let's use the main namespace. Also, you guys really need to talk things out more before implementing giant sweeping changes. The more I see you describe your respective visions for the wiki, the more different they seem from each other. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:29, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

::Well. A solution would be to make every article title for the current version just say the article name, ex/ instead of "DF2010:Armor", make it "Armor", like last time. If a new version is released that is different, then archive it as whatever version it last applied to, like "40d:Armor, or 31.01:Armor". Is there any problem with this idea? [[User:Richards|Richards]] 14:28, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, there is. (Namely, the amount of labor you're talking about if pages are not set-up for that.)

Here's "The Plan", which was set up a couple months ago (and which has been discussed elsewhere, but we'll do it one more time)...
:* Old versions are clearly labeled and consistently linked internally. All 40d links bounce around only to 40d articles, so if a player is researching that version, it's all one package. ''(Same w/ 23a, the "2-D" version previous to that, but an ongoing and lower-priority project.)''
:* "New" versions are, likewise, consistent within themselves. Versionless search terms (like "[[stone]]" automatically default to "current version".
:* Future versions get their own version names, "current" becomes one-older, and the pattern continues.
The current PROBLEM is three-fold - the first is the changeover itself, when first time Editors start firing away at articles without the correct names or understanding The Plan. That is understandable, but compounded by the fact that we don't currently ''know'' the "proper" version number to use - is it 0.31.01, or 0.31, or 31.01 - when the first bugfix comes out, what will be changed and what kept? What part of that number constitutes/defines this as a "version"? There is no equiv of 23.a or 40.d - it's a new code, and we weren't given the codebook. (We're waiting on Three-toe/Toady for a response on that.) The 3rd problem is "DF2010" - which is wrong, but while popular and everyone is using it, it won't be very friendly later down the road.

So... we've got something that works now but won't in the future, and needs to be changed to be consistent so we don't bequeath future Admin and users the big bone. A diff between more work now and the sort of complete cluster that has gone on behind the scenes for the last 2 months preparing for this change - which is going SO MUCH SMOOTHER NOW (believe it or not!) because of that (thankless, ahem) preparation.

Once we know the correct version, all current articles will appear as that. Search terms will default to current version. Older articles will be consistent within their own namespace. AND we'll be setup for future version changes without quite so much trauma (which is ''why'' some of the more obscure of these changes are being implemented). Clear as mud?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:06, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

:Are you basically trying to say that DF2010 is a convenient placeholder string that can be used to identify and move articles by bot when we get a stable version number from Toady? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:20, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

::Dammit, if I could express myself in anything less than 500 words at a time, I would have! (Yes, that's basically what I'm saying.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:31, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

:::I'm not sure who wins the eloquence award here. Anyways, we're still waiting on information from ToadyOne before we rename DF2010 to something else more appropriate. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:37, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

:::: Toady has already said that he plans to aim for possibly as often as a weekly bugfix release while the early issues of this release get ironed out. Trying to keep up with release number changes weekly would be an absolute nightmare. Until things calm down a bit I don't blame anyone here in the least for using DF2010 as a more general version name. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 15:54, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

:::::It ''is'' understood that Toady intends (ideally) for this to be both the last save-compat breaking version and the last major long-delay version... correct? Putting the entire Wiki in a namespace forever seems to me like a fairly terrible idea in any case, but it is intended for future versions to change much less of existing stuff as things go on (that is why this version took so long, in part, to get all the sweeping structural changes out of the way.) It is unlikely that there will ever be another version that would require reversioning the entire wiki, if, indeed, you think that even this one reached that level. While I'm not sure I'd agree that it was necessary to reversion the wiki for this version, the DF development plan is certainly intended to be such that revisioning the Wiki like this will never be necessary again. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 03:47, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::: All I'm saying is that for the immediate near future a large number of incremental bug fix releases are to be expected. To avoid driving people completely nuts trying to keep up with frequent version changes it makes sense to use the DF2010 title in the short term. After we see things settle down a bit I agree we should probably go ahead and return to an actual version number. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 17:27, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::With the new version numbering system being so much simpler, could we simply refer to the version as 31a? Then changing letters to account for bugfixes. I'm using 0.31 enough myself but the decimal point is awful. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 17:40, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Not really. We're mainly talking about the namespace's name. Changing a namespaces's name is a BIG headache (though it is the reason we're using the <nowiki>{{l|link}}</nowiki> stuff) because we did know that we'd be doing at least one change, and that gets rid of a decent portion of the headache. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 18:49, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::I'm still waiting on ToadyOne to provide an official tagname for this series of releases. If we receive one, we will use it in the wiki. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:02, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

== World Painter Page ==
The wiki has needed a page on the [[World Painter]] for a while, so I've started one. The information in there is decent, but I'm relatively new to wiki editing, so the formatting probably isn't. If someone wouldn't mind cleaning it up a bit for me I'd really appreciate it. --[[User:Timmeh|Timmeh]] 01:15, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

:Well I don't know if someone helped you already, but it looks fine to me. --[[User:frandude|frandude]]
:I changed the name into World Painter so it looked better (no more petty redirects!) [[User:Inawarminister|Inawarminister]] 12:01, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

== French language wiki ==

Can we have interlanguage links with the [http://www.dwarffortress.fr/wiki/ French wiki]? -[[User:Alan Trick|Alan Trick]] 17:48, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Add a CptnDuck page? ==

Captain Duck is a DF video tutorial maker, which an impressive collection of 40 videos on youtube (and a few extra videos of sieges and arenas and whatnot), and explains how to do most everything, from magma forges to Dwarven justice. He adds humor to it and he's the reason a lot of people understand the game...I think we should give him a page. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Blackdoggie998|Blackdoggie998]]

:As it is insanely easy for anyone to sign up for editing priviledges on this site (I managed to, after all), I see no need to make one for him when he could make one for himself. However, if you wish to add user:CptnDuck, or invite him to make one himself, feel free. He can link to all of his tutorials from his user page. They even be searchable through that lovely little box to the(my) left. (Who knows where it is on your skin.) -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

:P.S. Does it seem odd to you to have it say "unsigned comment by [username]"? Or is that just me? -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, just a little after the previous one.
:: Clicking 'unsigned' gave me all the explanation I need, might want to do the same [[User:Kinzarr|Kinzarr]] 23:27, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

:We don't need a userpage for him, but a page with the assembled listing of all his (and others of equal quality) video tutorials wouldn't be a bad idea at all. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

== Articles on Olivine and other generic stones ==

There is a current discussion as to whether or not [[Olivine]] (and perhaps some few other stones) are duly covered on the current [[stone]] page, or are truly worth having their own article/page. This relates to a larger question of how this wiki is organized, and "What deserves a page" in a general sense. Any interested are encouraged to chime in, if only with a "me too" post pro or con. See [[Talk:Olivine]] for an idea of the issue. I'd like to have the debate move from the specific Olivine page to here since this is a more general issue that affects many potential pages. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 21:29, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:I'm not really sure which way to go on this one. A lot of otherwise useless stones would need their own articles if the guidelines were expanded... and yet, there's a good amount of useful information that's not on the main pages, that would further clutter them if it were added; And permitting more individual pages would solve both those problems. I guess this ends up being a vote both ways, with provisions on each. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:54, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:My vote is, if someone can make it amusing, then sure. If someone is of the bent to enjoy making such a page, then again, sure... otherwise, leave it at the bottom of the pile of "things that someday we might get around to if we feel like it" and don't stress. The relevant data is covered (or will be when someone notices it's not), and everything else is gravy. Beside, what would you rather do, play the game, or figure out how to make a whole page of jokes about how gneiss nice is.... (or did I get that backwards?)... ? --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

::All relevant information is covered, yes. But not necessarily on a relevant page. Before the Olivine page was made you couldn't learn that olivine may contain native platinum from any page related to olivine or stone in general.
::Another example is kaolinite. You can look it up in the table of Other Stone to see it can be found in sedimentary rock. But in order to see that it may itself contain alunite and marcasite you have to go through the entire table (or use the browser search function). Now, in order to see if it may contain anything else, you have to notice the note at the top of the page (just above the table of contents) that points to Metal Ore and Gem, whith another two tables you have to search through. (Kaolinite may contain turquoise). --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 21:44, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:It's not just about "which stones" - it's a larger question of how the wiki is organized and presented. Should each separate and distinct item get its own page, like the current one- or two-line articles on [[vial]]s, [[instrument]]s or [[Restraint|chain]]s, (just as random parallel examples of some [[finished goods]] that have their very own, very short, very dull, and predictably repetitive articles.) Surely the [[Masons guild]] and [[miners guild]] don't deserve or need separate articles. Do we need a separate and largely redundant article for every trap weapon? What about the cookie-cutter articles on ''every'' individual animal? The GCS deserves its own, and many others, but one on each separate type of shark and hunting cat? There is no actual article there, only a template.

:Quivers and bolts are sub-sections of the [[crossbow]] article, and I think that's a ''great'' call. Olivine, talc and kaolinite are merely similar examples, distinct enough to warrant special treatment, but on the borderline of being so small to each only represent a stub. Ultimately, I don't think a functional formal definition would be easily achieved - rather guidelines and a fuzzy target, combining related info into groups with optimal size limitations (both lower end and upper end). Perhaps a template should not be forced on every lesser example, but they could be grouped into a table on their own article, "other stones of note" or "sharks" or "finished goods" or whatever.

:In many ways, our only current guidelines are "what has been done so far" - and that varies widely and wildly. Too often, pages are cobbled onto related ones, or split off just because its a new topic, if a brutally short one. Myself, I'd like to see most related articles of less than 4 lines or so get grouped into larger, more universally informative articles, and anything larger than maybe 5 full sub-sections be considered for splitting up. If an item stands out from the rest, it should stand out somewhere, in an article - but that doesn't mean it has to have its very own, or invite every similar item to do so as well.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 03:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Please check out the (no longer) current [[Chalk]] page and tell me what you think. ... which is to say, it doesn't /have/ to be a stub, does it? It can be rich and detailed and sadly unamusing. It would please me to continue to do all stones in this manner, or another manner of your choosing.... Thus negating fussing over "this one was done this way, that one was done that way" arguments. I'll get to them all, in the order they appear on the [[Stones]] page. ... assuming you guys are ok with that. --[[User:Teres Draconis]] 08:28, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:: P.S. Who's the outpost manager of this place, anyways? I'd like to know to whom I should be pandering. --jaz

::: I think 1) you should take time to read, if not learn the wiki format guidelines, 2) you should sign with your REAL user name, and stop using a pseudonym, and 3) you should not break someone else's post with yours in between their paragraphs. As to the chalk page, I think it's over-enthusiastic and pays no attention to previous article style or formatting precedent - which may be a good thing or a bad thing, depending. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::: 1) You're right, I'm sorry.
::::2) We've discussed user names on [[User_Talk:Teres_Draconis#Naming Conventions|my talks page]]. (Also, <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> still puts "jaz"... why bother with the link when it's just a P.S.?)
::::3) I'm sorry. I was (apparently) trained wrong, and that was a /long/ time ago. I was taught (20 years ago) that when responding, to do so in-line, so that people can tell what the response is actually relating to. (Like an actual conversation, except with a time warp. You say something, I respond, someone else adds, we all move on to the next topic.) It supposedly adds clarity. The style and curtesy rules of such things has changed. I can see I'll need to update myself. Thank you for pointing that out. =)
::::4) I was hasty. I had to have meatspace people explain to me why, as wiki-''writers'', you would not want so much detail on a page. Especially when, with every new game release, any given page on the wiki might need an over haul. I was only looking at it from the end-user perspective of "If I'm looking for information, I don't want a page that just tells me to go look at the three pages I've already looked at. I want a page that reduces the noise of the irrelevant, and distills to just that specific (sub-)topic." I /don't/ see the point of six pages that are identacle except for title, and all only three lines long. If it's got it's own page, it should have it's own page. If it just links back to the three pages that linked to it, and they all link to each other already, what's the point? If the only thing Chalk has going for it is that it's flux, why not just make a note on the [[Stone]] page reading, "These three rocks can be used as flux" and link to the flux page from there? Why should chalk have it's own page, if it's not going to be richly detailed and, you know, informative? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::The templates are there because they are pretty, detailed, and condensed ways to display some key information. Rather than expanding existing information so that it takes up more space, it's more productive to add things that you think are lacking. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:15, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::: I changed the other [[Stones]] table to allow for interesting minerals that are in other[[Stones]] to be posted.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:17, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:What would actually be helpful is a [[Geology]] primer, indicating how layers and inclusions are placed, where, and what the implications of "You have struck XXX" are. I know, now, that if it's olivine, I have a chance of finding veins of native platinum. One good page explaining what all of the geological processes mean would be a lot more useful then all of the various descriptions of exploratory mining. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 22:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::That sounds like a great idea.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:46, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::I agree! But I have no idea how to write it. Most of what I know about geology I learned from looking at the raws. Everything else is "OMG, is that a ''rock''?! I've heard of those!" - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::"More useful" to some, but I agree it would be a great addition. Also, the more I think about it, the more I like what MrDG did with the table in Other Stone - tables could condense any and all small, individual articles into single pages w/ (sortable?) tables where all these various similar objects could be compared/contrasted at a glance. Templates are perfect when there is a lot of various info, but if the different topics (semi-generic stones, animals, finished goods) all differ only in one or two details, and there is just not that many variables to begin with, a Table would be (imo) preferable. ''(And imo that table now covers such stones as Olivine well, to get back to the original example that sparked this discussion.)''

::As an additional example of how current stub-articles could be combined into a simple table, I've made this page - [[Example - some fish]] - which could be a model for such. (A page/table with all the "Sea-creatures" would be more likely approp, but this was faster for now.) It would replace every stub-article on related "generic" items, but any truly noteworthy items would still have their own full articles for expanded information and commentary (here, "carp"). It still has 100% of the prev information, but also allows immediate comparison and contrast, and, if sortable, allows a User to more easily compare relations between similar aspects (like "biome", in this example.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::: Is it possible to put the expandable version of the raw ("game object data (show)" seen at the bottom of the [[carp]] page) inside the table, instead of the whole thing? Or does the one preclude the other? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Actually, if someone finds it easy to extract that information from the .RAWs, I would find that an improvement on what [[Creatures]] currently has. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 17:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::If someone here knows PHP they may be able to write a new wiki hook that pulls information from raw entries. That would make many things much easier. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Which information do you want extracted? I can probably do it for you, but you may have heard, I'm in the doghouse for not paying attention to style and formating rules. =/ Show me what there is, and one example of what you want, and I can probably do it for you with a minimum of stupid questions. ... ''Probably.'' - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::@ jaz, Dec - Did either of you look at this sample table? [[Example - some fish]] Does that cover what you were envisioning? It's just a rough idea - but it could work the same way that the table on the [[stone]] page currently does, to cover all the generic, almost-identical objects. Same w/ finished goods, weapon traps, probably many other sim categories of like items.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I've read this sort of. My view is, wikis add value to the game far more for noobs than they do to legends who have been around since when the z-axis was just an idea. With this in mind, I reckon if everything with a name in the game had an article that would be *A Good Thing* (tm). Just my own opinion, feel free to disagree. Ideally, articles for things like stones should contain a template constructed from the raws, with prose/dialogue manually added.
Even things like [[screw pump]] could have a template driven section, advising what the components are / who makes it etc. Maybe <nowiki>{{building|Building Name|Component 1:Component 1 name|Component X| component X name|Constructed by|trade}}</nowiki> or similar.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 08:45, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:I agree, probably, although that sounds like a lot of work. I think the stone templates and articles could do with a bit of a cleanup and more in-game information. I mostly use the articles to see if there's anything notable about a particular stone and then check out the wikipedia page. Some of the wikipedia links are broken or indirect now because disambiguity pages have been added since. Also, the wikipedia links are right at the bottom of very long boxes listing ores and gems and the like - I suggest adding drop down boxes to the templates that contain all that information but which are minimized by default. Or changing the template so that the wikipedia link wraps around the stone name at the top. --[[User:Harmonica|Harmonica]] 01:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Way late to this party, apologies. Tables are no good (to me) if they aren't sortable. The World Ends With You (a Nintendo DS game) Wikia portal/wiki thing has an ''awesome'' method for adding sortable tables. Some gadget called [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki Semantic MediaWiki] that hooks into the Wiki to automatically pull data out as you request it, then display it in easy-to-read and use sortable tables. The TWEWY Wikia has [http://twewy.wikia.com/wiki/The_World_Ends_With_You:Semantic_MediaWiki a page on it] for their editors, giving a few examples of how powerful it is. Their use of the tool is to easily pull information from a table of 304 items, each containing 30 attributes, to generate lists comparing and compiling various items. Hugely powerful, extremely flexible.

This type of tool would work wonderfully with a PHP RAW parser, or even simple dumps of the RAWs to the Wiki. Think of how easy it would be to update the entire Wiki across the board when new versions come out. New critters? Changes to existing critters? Update the information in one spot and it trickles down through the entire Wiki! That's in addition, of course, to being able to, say, generate tables listing how many bones each creature drops when killed, then sort to see which one drops the most. Pretty sweet stuff.

With some sort of system in place for wading through all the data on the wiki, one wouldn't have to worry about having too much information, right? -- [[User:Blank|Blank]] 04:44, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Particularly for stone, I think that it would be a good idea to describe each individual stone relative to other, similar stones. Let's use [[sandstone]] as an example. Suppose that I read (either in its own article, or in a table) something along the lines of "Sandstone is a [[sedimentary]] layer. Unlike most sedimentary layers, it may contain [[aquifers]] or veins of [[native copper]]." If I already know what a sedimentary layer is (and how it differs from other types of layers), this information will be much easier to process and much more useful than a full list of everything that appears in sandstone. If I have no idea what a sedimentary layer is, this will tell me that there are several sedimentary layers and that they all have many things in common, which is again more useful than a list of everything that appears in sandstone. --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 08:56, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
:That's not the way this (any?) wiki is set up. The idea is that a lesser concept (here, "sandstone") need not include redundant info from a larger, parent concept (here, "sedimentary layer"). If you don't know what a sed'y layer is (or an aquifer or a vein or whatever) you click that link. If, then, you don't know what a "layer" is, you click that link. Sounds good at first, but if every lesser article included an explanation, even a quick synopsis, of the info for all relevant articles on broader, umbrella concepts, the articles, and this wiki as a whole, would explode beyond usefulness. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks for making my point for me. If you look at the current sandstone article, it lists everything contained in sandstone. Looking at just the ores and non-generic stones, we have: Native copper, Hematite, Limonite, Magnetite, Native platinum, Tetrahedrite, Bituminous coal, Lignite, Bauxite. All of these except for native copper appear in every sedimentary layer. That's not even counting all of the generic stone (especially gypsum with its five other types of generic stone contained in it) and (mostly low-value) gems. 95% of the text in this article is redundant, and could easily be summarized by "This layer is exactly like every other sedimentary layer except for these two differences". --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 09:06, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Ah - ''that's'' your point. (When you said "describe", I thought you were advocating a narrative commentary on and verbal expansion of the info included in the sidebar.) When I was talking about not having redundant info, I was talking text - which is quite terse in this case, exactly because of the point you make. Those sidebars were designed to encapsulate the key info, an "at a glance" sort of thing, to avoid exactly what you're talking about in narrative form. Are the sidebars redundant? Often, yes. But they are the style this wiki has adopted for ''all'' stone. So you're talking not just about changing sed'y layers, but the style approach to all stone, since they would not then be consistent across the board. (Not how I would have personally designed the layout, but it's there and it works, and well. Any stone, same layout, same info in the same place, bam got it.) And when discussing presentation and usability issues, any article has to be taken both individually and in the context of others "like" it - here, any "stone" article is the same layout, the same info at a glance, which (for now) trumps whatever redundancies exist. Perhaps a quick line such as you're stating would go well, since there is, indeed, very little unique to say about any one sub-type of sedimentary layer, and that is info in and of itself. (Take a look at any [[igneous extrusive]] except obsidian for something similar.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

A lot of people have been talking a lot of things about reorganizing the information on the stones pages. After browsing around on them for a while, I've found the information to be mostly scattered and difficult to draw conclusions from. For example, I wasn't aware that each geographic stone type had a base list of stones that can appear, while only some of them have a couple of unique stones that may appear along with that list. It wasn't until I began gathering all of that data together for myself, that I found the patterns. I had to work to tie it all together. So, I have a partially completed table of pulldown menus on my user page right now. If anyone's interested they could take a look and tell me what they think? (Yes, I know a lot of it is redundant. I have an idea on how to fix this, but I haven't completely decided yet) --Kydo 13:55, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Lumping all the generic stones into one page is pretty much a labor saving device. There are a lot of different stones in DF most of which have no real differences other than color. So in one respect, I do see reasoning for saving some effort and dumping them in one place. On the other hand, it would be useful to me to see slightly more detailed information about each of the colored stones, for example, I know alunite looks a certain way before it is mined out, it's general color is bright white, when used to build trap components it is bright white in both the on and off position (many stones go to dark in the off position). In the same vein, when used to build tables and chairs, both will be bright white (many stones go to dark for chairs). If you're looking for a "certain look" and want to know a tiny bit more about the stone colors at present, that information simply isn't here as things are now. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 16:21, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== Not a Roguelike ==

Dwarf Fortress only resembles a Roguelike in the sense that everything kills you. ASCII graphics haven't connoted Rogue-resemblance since Diablo came out with modern 3D graphics and was still considered a Roguelike.
[[User:LogicalDash|LogicalDash]] 22:08, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you for Fortress mode, but adventurer mode is rogue like.--[[User:Mjo625|Mjo625]] 22:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

:DF is rogue-like like.[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 08:59, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

LogicalDash, Diablo is in 2D, not 3D. --[[User:612DwarfAvenue|612DwarfAvenue]] 05:10, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

What makes a rogue-like? too classic a question to pass up . ahem IMHO there three major elements, A dungeon crawl/ fantasy setting, ASCII and random as hell. That makes dwarf fortress three outta three hits for me. Close enough, i'd say, if it's not a rogue-like what other category could it go in? sure its not a great fit but a unique game has to go somewhere. Diablo is a dungeon crawl like rogue sure, but it lacks the depth and randomness of any of the other recognised roguelikes, ADOM, moria etc. So one outta three? The depth, randomness and spontaneity really make it, ever had a character eaten by a bear on the way to the village in ADOM? classic. --[[User:Pedantictype|Pedantictype]] 05:46, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
:I'm afraid I have to disagree with you, Pedantictype. A Rogue-like is defined by the original: Rogue. Rogue was, first and foremost, a dungeon-crawl with control of a single character, yes? I would postulate that that is one of the elements that is required to be defined as a rogue-like, which qualifies Adventure mode but not Fortress mode. --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 05:04, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::Eagle's right. A roguelike game plays somewhat like Rogue and has ascii graphics. Fortress mode DF is a tactical/strategic/sandbox ascii game, not a roguelike. And isn't there general intent for it to have graphics one day, once it's out of the design stages? --Kydo 01:58, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== Link to Add Quotes ==

To get help on how to add quotes to the main page, consult [[Talk:Main Page/Quote|this]] link.

== Incoming New Version ==

Guys. We might as well prepare for the new version that will be coming by the end of the year (maybe). What will need to change? Weapons and armor, the underground stuff... I don't know all of it. But it's extensive. Get ready.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
:Well, we don't know all the details, and names of jobs/items can change before actual release. [[User:Kurokikaze|Kurokikaze]] 16:14, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
:I don't see what this has to do with anything, i guess it's nice of you to tell us. But what do you mean "get ready?"
: Gird your loins, gentlemen. Or something.
::It'll be hard to cover every page - if you edit, try to follow up on links, etc. Might also have to check the "oldest pages" listing to see that they've all been updated (except it's broken atm). The worst currently is that we ''still'' have legacy crap from earlier versions in obscure corners and comments that's not relevant to current version. Bonus.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:11, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
:This might be useful: http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AT8EQVUjrv96ZGc5cnBwOHZfMjgyY3FzZHFtanA&hl=en
:Are we just changing this wiki? (as opposed to forking with the new version, in case some people keep playing 40d?) [[Special:Contributions/206.45.111.58|206.45.111.58]] 22:39, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
::Forking sounds good to me. But I have no idea how well wikis handle forking. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 14:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
:::In any case I think it would be a good idea to updated articles as is, and not wipe them out like in the wiki's switch to 3d which simply wiped out a lot of good information along with outdated text. Forking is a good route to take if people don't want to lose 40d inforamtion. [[User:Richards|Richards]] 19:40, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

== Interwiki ==

Correct link to Russian DF wiki, please.
Right link = www.dfwk.ru instead current www.dfwiki.ru --[[Special:Contributions/91.192.82.106|91.192.82.106]] 11:43, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
:It's done, so should we delete this conservation? (not that great at wiki myself) [[User:Inawarminister|Inawarminister]] 09:46, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
::They get archived at some point, so no need. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 00:33, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

== Random page ==

Why is "Random page" only bringing me to "Count Consort"? :\ --[[Special:Contributions/99.33.67.9|99.33.67.9]] 22:33, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
:It seems "Random page" is only random daily... Is this intentional? --[[Special:Contributions/99.33.67.9|99.33.67.9]] 20:31, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
::There's probably something wrong with your browser cache settings - it works fine for me. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:37, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

== Random images ==

Where are the images on the main page coming from? It's easy to find the quotes, but where are the images? [[User:MC Dirty|MC Dirty]] 15:14, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

:I have an image I'd like added... I'll put it on my userpage if anyone wants to take a look at it and see if it's acceptable for uploading. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 06:40, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

== New Category Idea - Well Known Dwarves ==

After reading some stories on many of the most awesome dwarfs to show up in this game. (Namely Captain Ironblood, Morul, Tholtig) That a category, perhaps a sub one to Humor and Stories just for Dwarves that are very very clearly above the normal for the already outrageous(ly awesome) game of Dwarf Fortress. However do to the fact this is less on the game mechanics and such, the idea is first here so other's can figure if it's worth having a category. One thing that comes to mind is there really should be some sort of limit to what makes a Dwarf and Epic/Well Known Dwarf so as to prevent people from putting everyone they liked up there rather then the few '''everyone''' likes. Mostly asking as there is a handful of such dwarfs and that number is only going to (slowly) grow. Each said Dwarf I think deserves some sort of noting on a page for my two cents on the topic.
:I definitely thing that this is a great idea in the true spirit of DF.
::These should of course go under D for Dwarf.

== Images ==

So, what does everyone think? Would it be a good idea to have real-world images (or possibly sketches for fantasy, if applicable) of the following:
* Trees
* Fish
* Land animals
* Weapons and armor
* Stones
* Ores
* Land features (desert, savannah, etc.)
* Gems
* Metals
* Plants
We already have two pages with example images for a [[Pike_(weapon)#Pike|weapon]] and a [[Sandstone|stone]] for example. I find this very nice for visualizing my fortress and what's going on, since I'm not very familiar with many of the distinctions DF makes. I mean, I know what a fish looks like but I haven't got a clue what the difference between a pike and a char is, or a birch and alder, or even bronze and pewter to be honest.--[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 22:42, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
:The normal issues with this kind of thing is REAL-WORLD publishers being annoying with copyright. I guess if we can find it from the real-world wiki then there is a good chance it is a public domain image.
:There is no way in the world it would hurt an article to have one of these. Although, for fantasy objects, materials, and creatures, there may well be some discussion about if the "Dragon" should be a European, Oriental, or some other dragon (and so on for the rest).
:[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 11:52, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
::Well, I've added pictures to some of the layer stones and vermin, as well as all the ores. If anyone is interested, you can link to files on wikimedia commons as if they were internal files now.--[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 04:52, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
:::What if those of us with artistic skills were to produce original content for such pages? For example, I could easily do a few drawings depicting certain fantasy creatures as well as actual creatures. --Kydo 22:56, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
::::I don't see how that could even remotely hurt at all.--[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 15:21, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Who says that the 'Dragon' as a creature isn't a generalization of any species? To be honest, with the graphics as they are, I think that most of Dwarf Fortress comes down to the way the user imagines it, rather than how it appears on screen. Rather like the old text based adventure games of old.--[[Special:Contributions/85.12.64.150|85.12.64.150]] 10:18, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
:::Whoever you are, that is why i don't use a tileset.[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 06:15, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
:As a rule of thumb, "graphics" are good things - eye candy, if nothing else. Purty. Use common sense and discretion when choosing (or creating) the image - avoid genre-specific images or anything that is copyrighted (like from an identifiable RPG, for instance), and perhaps add "artist's interpretation" under it, or a selection of (smaller) different images for something like a dragon (tho' I, personally, don't see dwarves with oriental dragons - ymmv.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:49, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
::Seeing as how this is a wiki and what not, why not simple add a western dragon, and if anyone objects to the bias they can add an oriental dragon, so we have two pictures and not only both sides are happy but everyone gets more pictures to look at?--[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 15:21, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
:(Also, if you're interested enough to post in the Main Page Discussion, you might want to get an account. Meh.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:49, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

== No link to World Generation? ==

Home page needs a link to World Generation. I thought of adding it, but didn't want to upset the delicate symmetry happing in the menus. Thoughts as to where it could go? [[Special:Contributions/118.208.7.232|118.208.7.232]] 04:25, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

== Namespaces ==

As the subject has been mentioned on the forum:
some articles have been moved to a new 40d namespace. This is intended to make way for the "main" namespace to be reserved for the "current version", which ''real soon now'' will be DF2010.
For the full discussion see [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Versions]] and the talk page.
[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 10:32, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Then bloody well move them. These blank 40d pages are making finding information that is supposed to be there very hard to find.

:Agreed..Plus I dont understand the site announcements so i pretty much can't contribute to the wiki right now. Hope you got a stable team to help and are done with it soon. Oh, and a better explanation would be great of course. --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.120.234|92.202.120.234]] 00:10, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
::When is the moving of things to the main namespace going to be complete? Having everything in DF2010 namespace is horribly annoying, and the 40d namespace screws up searches and makes it harder to find stuff via google searches and such. How long is it going to take to get the wiki fixed to the current version, delete all the old d40 stuff, and get rid of the namespaces? --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 03:40, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

== Tutorials clutter ==

Currently we have in the first box:
*About Dwarf Fortress
*'''Tutorials and guides'''
*'''Quickstart guide (recent)'''
*'''Frequently Asked Questions'''
*'''Your first fortress'''
*'''Video tutorials'''
*'''Important advice'''
*'''Indecisive's Illustrated Tutorial'''
*'''Get help from online chat'''
*Game development
*'''Non-Dwarf's Guide to Rock'''
*'''Starting builds'''

Bolded are the ones I think are redundant. Basically, we have the following categories of stuff:
*Tutorials for newbies: Step by step instructions where you follow what the guide says, without necessarily understanding why right away.
*Guides for newbies: General explanations of game concepts, such as z-level, how to set labors, how to farm, how to work the interface and install a graphical tileset, what the aim of the game is, etc.
*Guides for advanced players: These assume you know how to play the game, and are concerned with optimizing/pushing strategy. Embark build discussions which go beyond explaining the bare minimums you should take (such as "don't embark without a pick!", intended for newbies who may not know what they are doing), megaprojects, combat mechanics, computing, farming strategies, defense strategies, design strategies, macros, world generation parameter discussion and the like.
*FAQ, bugs and troubleshooting: The index of known problems and what to do about them, for when you have a clear question you want to figure out. This includes the FAQ, IRC channels and bugs to watch out for.
That makes 4 categories. Currently, we have 10 categories dealing with the same things. Moreover, the current break down makes no sense, and is obviously not maintained (I think that quickstart guide has been "recent" since early last summer). It's becoming confusing for the clueless first time player who was just linked to Bay12 and the wiki on a forum, and left to fend for itself. In fact, ideally, the tutorials and newbie guides should also be sorted from short to long, with datestamps.

I would rearrange the box myself, but I thought I'd ask what everyone else is thinking first. By the way, are there any tutorials for DF2010, or plans to write any? --[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 02:07, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
::By the way, my proposal is to have the box look like this:
::'''Help with Dwarf Fortress'''
::*About Dwarf Fortress
::*How to set up and play Dwarf Fortress (Tutorials)
::*General game information (explanation of basics)
::*Advanced strategies (for experienced players)
::*Troubleshooting: FAQ, where to ask for help, known bugs and issues
::*Game development
::--[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 02:14, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

::If [[40d:Quickstart guide]] is obsolete, you should definitely remove the links to it from the front page (both "Your first fortress" and "Quickstart guide" end up there). As a new player pointed at this wiki by the game, I wasted twenty minutes trying to load in the save game (was I being unlucky, or does it simply not work with the new version?) and gave up on trying to play Dwarf Fortress, as a result. --[[User:Gritspeck|Gritspeck]] 16:45, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

:I'm all for this, this is a terrible organization. I like your plan. Given further agreement (or at least no opposition) I say go for it. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 00:38, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

== New modding guide ==
I'm not really sure what the process is for new guides and tutorials. I figured it would be of general community interest, so I'm posting this here; [[User:Tfaal/The Complete Dorf's Guide to Bodies]] --[[User:Tfaal|Tfaal]] 16:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

==Bug listings on the Wiki==
Given that the version number is expected to be changing quite rapidly in the near future as bugs are caught and killed, I think it's a good idea to always keep a version number associated with any bug reports we migrate into the wiki pages. This will hopefully minimize confusion as updates gradually remove these. If we could get one of those mini-version tags to use for this purpose or if someone can explain to me how to use that half-sized font for this purpose that would be helpful. Thanks. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 16:23, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:There is already a template for this: [[Template:Version]]. You use it as follows.
:<nowiki>Example.{{version|0.23.130.23a}}</nowiki>
:results in:
:Example.{{version|0.23.130.23a}} --[[User:Soy|Soy]] 16:44, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:: Thank you, that is all I needed. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 17:54, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

== What happened to the link to the dev changelog? ==

There used to be a link to the changelog and a link to the 31_01 release information, but now there's just a link to the release information labeled "changelog." Also the main page appears to use a funny template or something so the link's messed up throughout all of the mainpage history.
:-That's a link I used almost daily. While I realize I'm an idiot for not just bookmarking it, it is a little disconcerting for it to :be gone. Either way, I've always thought it was one of the most relevant links on the main page—it let's you know where the game :project is at ''right now''.
:Wow, forgot sig and indent. I'm amazing. :P ----[[User:Njero|Njero]] 01:03, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Found the template in question, figured there was no reason for the changelog link not to be there so I put it back; it seemed like it was removed by mistake anyway. Also renamed the link to the release information so there wouldn't be two links entitled "changelog." --[[User:Untelligent|Untelligent]] 02:22, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

==Announcements Hider==
The announcement-hiding script on Briess's page no longer works--it's checking the contents of an id that no longer exists. Replacing the conditional with collapseTable(0) works, but sidesteps the original intent of the conditional, which I presume is to display the options if they've changed since last visit. Does that functionality still apply? While we're at it, is it possible to assign a named value to the collapsible table, so that it can be collapsed without referring to its position relative to other collapsible tables (which breaks the hider script on certain skins)? -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]

==How will merging/splitting topics work for backward compatibility linking==
I got thinking about this when helping work on the military pages, we're branching this out into squads/military/schedule/etc. because of how much more complex things have suddenly got with the military system. It was a natural direction to take things. What's the correct way to handle backward compatibility links in this situation? And now that I'm thinking about it, how about page merging? If we decide to merge anything how will that be handled? [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 03:59, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

== Game object date boxes ==

These boxes on the creature pages need some kind of text formatting to stop them expanding to far. Just an example try the [[dog|dog]] page. --[[User:AKAfreaky|AKAfreaky]] 12:54, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

== Carrying over saved games? ==

Hi, is it possible to carry over savegames from one version to the next, and if so, how do I do this? Thanks [[User:EddyP|EddyP]] 10:27, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
:It is possible - go to the /data folder and just copy the file called "save" to the /data folder in the new DF. You'll then have to edit the raws in each region folder (inside the save folder) to match the new raws in the main /raw folder (or just copy them over). --[[User:AKAfreaky|AKAfreaky]] 20:22, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
::As long as the "different versions" are within the same "generation" of Dwarf Fortress (i.e. 0.21 thru 0.23, 0.27 thru 0.28, or 0.31), this'll work. If you actually try to copy a saved game from 0.28.101.40d to 0.31.xx, expect it to fail in a very spectacular way. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:51, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Building designer

2010-04-14T07:50:25Z

612DwarfAvenue: /* Using architecture */

{{av}}
{{Skill
| color = #848
| skill = Building Designer
| profession = Administrator
| job name = {{L|Architecture}}
| tasks =
* Construct Building
}}
The '''building designer''' {{L|skill}} is used in the construction of certain {{L|building}}s. Its corresponding {{L|labor}} is '''architecture'''. Building designer has no influence on the speed with which such buildings are constructed; its only effect is to influence the {{L|quality}} of designed buildings, which has only modest benefits.

== Using architecture ==

When building structures that require architecture, it is the architect who carries the building materials to the site and clears it of debris. The architect's time can be minimized by placing appropriate {{L|stockpiles}} near the selected location and by designating debris for {{L|dump}}ing in advance. The building is then built in two stages: the first performed by the architect, and the second by a {{L|mason}} (if the building built from {{L|stone}}, stone {{L|block}}s, or {{L|glass}} blocks), a {{L|carpenter}} (if it is built from {{L|log}}s or wood blocks), or a {{L|metalsmith}} (if it is built from metal {{L|bar}}s, {{L|block}}s, or metal ores).

== Building quality ==

Building designer skill influences the {{L|quality}} of "designed" buildings (those listed above). The quality of the building is determined by the skill of the architect ''and'' the skill of the builder (mason/etc.). The game assigns two values that can be viewed with the {{L|building list}}. When determining the overall value of the building, these two values are simply added together to form an overall value multiplier ranging from 2 to 24.

Buildings that do not involve an architect do not have any quality (aside from "built" {{L|furniture}} -- tables, statues, doors, etc.).

Building quality has only two effects in-game: high-quality buildings can occasionally trigger a happy {{L|thought}} in dwarves who notice them, and higher-quality buildings will boost your fort's overall architectural wealth (as displayed in the "created wealth" section of the {{L|status}} screen). The first effect is usually easy to achieve by using high-quality furniture, however, and the second effect is minimal unless you make your buildings out of high-value materials (such as {{L|platinum}} or {{L|artifact}} components).

Destroying a masterwork structure (whether via {{L|cave-in}} or {{L|building destroyer}}) will give an unhappy {{L|thought}} to its designer and/or builder (depending on whether the design or construction are masterful), though dismantling it will not.

{{Skills}}
[[Category:Skills]]

40d Talk:Tentacle demon

2010-03-18T06:08:05Z

612DwarfAvenue: /* Tentacle Zerg */

Is this a joke?{{nosignature|Amenos42}}
:Yes and no. It is a real creature. It is also a joke. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 18:31, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

== Goblin control? ==

How is that possible? Is it hard coded, or a result of the prefstring, or just because it's a demon--or is it something else? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Midna|Midna]]
:Pleeease sign your edits using <tt><nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki></tt>. At any rate, it's because it's a demon, likely the [DEFENDER] tag. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 23:33, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

::Sorry, sometimes I forget...also, in the creatures I modded in, I haven't seen an admirer of these so far. Also, the engraving in the tentacle demon pits show races with the [INTELLIGENT] tag commiting 'depraved acts' upon other/the same race(s), or alone. [[User:Midna|Midna]] 02:02, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Are you sure you gave your modded creature [FANCIFUL][SPHERE:THRALLDOM][CAN_SPEAK][CAN_LEARN][[PERSONALITY:IMMODERATION:(...)][GENPOWER:x] tags? It's possible that some of those influence creature's ability to rule lesser races. Also, 'depraved acts' seem to be result of [SPHERE:DEPRAVITY] tag. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 06:15, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

::::No, I don't want them as rulers--but I'm curious, because it'd be interesting to make one/some 'ruler' creatures later on. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 11:34, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Tentacle Zerg==

These things seem to uh...multiply rather quickly. I send 3 squads down to go take care of 3 of them, then it's 5, and now it's 8. It's been several minutes now... [[User:Archaeologist|Archaeologist]]
:They ambush. You're getting zerged by ultralisks, baby. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]]

What's even stranger, is that fact they multiply at all. Tentacle Demons have the [MALE] tag, so... --[[User:612DwarfAvenue|612DwarfAvenue]] 06:08, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

== Everyone wants one for Halloween ==

Just a note: an Exceptional Tentacle demon skull [[Totem]] is worth 1000, while an equal-quality Elf skull totem is only worth 50. In other news, adamantine is plentiful and life is good. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 22:01, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:That probably has something to do with their considerably high modifier value (20). Off of the top of my head, I'm not even sure that elves have a multiplier to begin with. ... On another note, I wonder why we can't make beds out of adamantine if it's supposedly possible to make it soft/flexible enough to wear as clothing? Seems like it's both a lot more durable than wood and a lot better for usage as bed material to me...but then again, beds being a wood-only object has always rather irked me. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 06:38, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

40d:Tantrum

2010-01-18T06:04:35Z

612DwarfAvenue:

A '''tantrum''' describes the actions of a dwarf who momentarily goes out of control, throwing things, breaking things, punching nearby dwarfs, and generally causing trouble. In unlucky cases, this can cause the loss of valued items, or the injury or death of bystanders. [[Justice]] will often fall upon a dwarf who has caused damage to body or property.

Dwarves will tantrum if they are at the "very unhappy" level of happiness or worse. This can be due to a long series of substandard food, drink, shelter, and general living conditions, or a sudden and acute change brought on by the death of a [[friend]], [[spouse|family]] member, or favourite [[pet]], the loss of a [[masterpiece]] (especially if the dwarf has only made a few), or other extreme, negative experience. Viewing a dwarf's [[profile]] ( {{k|v}}, {{k|p}}, {{k|z}}, {{k|Enter}} ), their [[thoughts]] will usually spell out their grievances in the form of good/bad thoughts.

A [[leader]] can often talk a dwarf down from the ledge with a [[meeting]]. If an unhappy dwarf is seeking a meeting (which is always with the leader), it's recommended to temporarily turn off all [[labor]] designations on the leader until the meeting is concluded.

A tantrum from one dwarf can often trigger tantrums in others - this is known as a '''tantrum chain''', or, especially if it grows out of control and threatens the fortress as a whole, a '''tantrum spiral'''. If any dwarf throws a tantrum that cannot be explained by a personal loss, '''it should be taken as a warning.''' When this happens, it often signifies that the ''other'' dwarves are unhappy--and if they aren't already, they probably/possibly will be soon.

In more mature fortresses, tantrums have been known to have particularly nasty results. In [[Boatmurdered|extreme cases]], a chain of tantrums can bring a fortress to its metaphorical knees. Chains don't occur particularly often, but when they do, they are extraordinarily hard to stop.

They generally play out something like this:

:Dwarf A throws a tantrum, and punches Dwarf B.
:A recovers happily, but B throws a tantrum and smashes the butcher's workshop to bits.
:The butcher, C, tantrums and destroys the table of the closest noble, D.
:D tantrums, starting fights with three other dwarves--A, C, and E.
:All of ''them'' tantrum, and C is taken into custody.
:E gets busy and smacks B. Meanwhile, C is killed by the hammerdwarf, accidentally or otherwise.
:C's friends, F, G, H, I, J, ''and K,'' all tantrum and do other nasty things.
:Everybody eventually tantrums and the fortress production grinds to a halt.
:Everybody starves, throws themselves into a volcano, or otherwise dies.
:???
:PROFIT! -612DwarfAvenue

:* [[What's the easiest way to check dwarves happiness|Ways to check a dwarf's happiness]]

Beware that it is very much possible for a tantruming dwarf to destroy the [[bridge]] he is standing on, potentially causing him to [[Swimmer#Drowning|drown]], [[Magma|burn up]], or fall into a [[chasm]].

[[Category:Dwarves]]
[[Category:Thoughts]]

40d:Losing

2010-01-18T05:57:50Z

612DwarfAvenue: /* War */

Losing is fun!

Either way, it keeps you busy.

Most new players will lose their first few forts; <s>if</s> when you lose a [[fortress]], don't feel like you don't understand the game. Dwarf Fortress has a steep learning curve, and part of the appeal is discovering things for yourself. However, this Wiki serves as an excellent place to speed up the learning process.

If you lose, you can always [[reclaim fortress mode|reclaim fortress]] or go visit it in [[adventurer mode]].

If you're looking for more ways to <s>die horribly</s> test yourself, try either the [[Mega Constructions]], or the [[Challenges]] pages.

== Autopsy ==

Various things can cause you to lose a fortress.

=== Losing your miners ===

If your [[miner]]s are killed in a [[cave-in|collapse]] and their equipment destroyed, chances are good that you will no longer be able to continue your efforts. Consider abandoning your fortress. Alternatively, you can try to keep your fortress running long enough to request additional [[pick]]s from your Outpost [[Liaison]], who will arrive with the next dwarven trade [[caravan]]. It will take another year before they will return. 
Also consider the tedious but fun option of making [[buildings]] outside! If your [[woodcutter]]s with [[axe]]s are still available, then you can build structures of [[wood]]. This is not recommended for very new players though, as it is intensely resource-demanding and takes a lot of managing to get right. (Also not recommended if you don't understand the z-axis system yet.)

=== Starvation ===

A serious danger, generally in the more inhospitable [[climate]]s, is the loss of your [[dwarves]] due to starvation; if you are in the heart of a [[mountain]] with no [[soil]] to build on, it is possible you will not be able to establish [[farm]]s. As dwarves begin to starve, they will become Hungry, then Starving. This will cause them to become very angry. When they die, their friends will become upset and will become even angrier, potentially causing the remainder of your fortress to break out in a terminal brawl.

Don't forget your alternative sources of [[food]]. Try [[butchering]] your [[animals]], [[plant gathering|gathering plants]], or resorting to [[hunting]] of local wildlife.

===No water===

This can be one of the biggest problems with a fortress that has no [[brook]], [[river]], or other source of fresh [[water]]. Any available standing water must be rapidly gathered from stagnant pools and stored into an indoor basin or water tower, with sufficient depth before it [[evaporate]]s. If this fails, all of the water on the map can quickly evaporate and your dwarves will be left without any water.

Healthy dwarves will not die of thirst as long as they have alcohol, which in the current version can be [[Brewing|brewed]] without the use of water. However, injured dwarves must be given water, not alcohol, or they will die of dehydration.

In the current version{{version|0.28.181.40d}} rain will refill stagnant pools of water slowly. In a hot [[climate]], this may evaporate almost immediately. What's more, if the map is in a dry [[climate]], such as a desert (hot or cold), then there can be long periods of time with no water anywhere - in extreme cases, none ever. Snow will not refill pools, so you can also have a lack of water in very cold [[climate]]s. Also, if weather has been turned off in the [[init.txt]] file then there will be no rain and no water will accumulate, though it may be there at the beginning of the game.

===Flooding accidents===

The opposite side of the dehydration spectrum is having too ''much'' water. Remember that water can [[flow]] in 10 directions (the 8 horizontal ones as well as up and down, to the level of its source.)

If your fortress is beginning to flood from [[Water#Sourced Water|sourced water]], abandon all of the levels the water can reach immediately—drafting dwarves into the [[military]] and stationing them onto the surface if need be. You will never be able to recover those areas unless you can manage to [[pump]] out the water faster than it floods in, which can take over a year or two of game time to establish a functioning automated pump system. Generally, a flooding accident spells doom for your fortress.

Sometimes a fortress is flooded with [[magma]]. This is even more [[fun]], and even harder to recover from. Most doors will stop magma, it doesn't rise as aggressively (via [[pressure]]) as water, and magma can be pumped out with the right equipment. Read up on it. Good luck.

===Ambush===
The [[goblin]]s first come with about half a dozen soldiers, then a dozen. Then they come again with about two dozen. Since they arrive stealthy it may already be too late when you detect them. Soon enough your [[trap]]s are all sprung, and your dwarves are dead. If not, the [[siege]]s will start. Without some sort of [[Defense guide|defense]]s, such as a [[moat]] or [[trap]]s, a horde of goblins on your doorstep can be deadly.

See Also:
:* [[Defense guide]]
:* [[Defense design]]
:* [[Trap design]]
:* [[Military design]]

===War===
The [[goblin]]s may not be your only enemy; remember that time you "accidentally" pulled the [[lever]] and flung that poor [[elf]] trader into the sky? Well turns out they got pretty annoyed, prepare for an elven [[war]]! It may only take a simple accident (like killing a preachy hippy elf) to start a war you can't possibly win. War is especially difficult to overcome when your fort is taking its first steps, however, it is easy to prevent unless you really hate elves (If you don't hate Elves, then you're not playing it right... -612DwarfAvenue). The usual goblin skirmishes and sieges do not even count as war - a proper war will be signaled on the embark screen and will be denoted in-game on the {{k|c}}ivilization screen. (NOTE: You cannot be at war with your own race, so no epic dwarf showdowns.)

===Wildlife===

Goblins aren't the only creatures that want you dead. Be it [[unicorn|unicorns]], [[hippo|hippos]], [[undead]] [[elephant|elephants]] or a [[giant cave spider]], a sudden wildlife attack can quickly cripple or destroy an unprepared fortress.

===Volcanic Death===

{{Colored Notice Box|#00f|There is dispute over whether volcanoes actually erupt or if this behavior is the product of a bug where a [[bottomless pit]] and volcano are placed on top of each other.}}

[[Volcano]]es (read: '''''not''''' [[magma]] vents, actual ''volcanoes'') can and will erupt unexpectedly.{{verify}} If you've got front doors to your fort, don't forget to lock them during an eruption... and make sure you've got some way to remove excess magma, too.

Oh, that's right, you never installed any front doors. You were hoping that you could just dump the invaders into the volcano as they walked up to your front entrance, which is (conveniently) right on the edge of the lava. Whoops. Say goodbye to half your fort.

It should be noted that ''this was <s>his sled</s> a bug'' that had to do with 2 layers of magma being placed (in the air) above bottomless pits.

This advice also applies if you're trying to pull a [[Boatmurdered]] (i.e. flood the world with magma) or if you just want to roast those sieges sitting at your front door.

===General Unhappiness===

Think it's no big deal to leave your dwarves with a mediocre [[dining room]], living room, and a generally inadequate fortress?

If there is little in a fortress to give your dwarves happy [[thoughts]] and enough to give them unhappy [[thoughts]], then your dwarves will start to throw [[tantrum]]s, go melancholy, and destroy your [[civilization]]. Unhappiness is more likely to occur if your fortress is suffering other kinds of downfall.

===Siege===
[[Siege]]s can be quite devastating to a fortress, but unlike most of the other ways of losing they are unlikely to occur early on, even if you do something stupid to piss off another civilization. Goblin sieges, for example, will only occur if you have 80 or more dwarves.

Should hosts of goblins besiege your gates and drive your peasantry inside, trolls beat down your doors and force you to seal off from the outside world, you may have already lost the game. Even if you have built an utterly impenetrable fortress with drawbridges and moats, siegers may stick around for a long time. Although a dwarven fortress can be made self-contained, with [[list of crops|crops]], [[metal]] and [[fuel]] readily available, underground [[tree farm|wood source]] and your own [[livestock]], a fortress may not sustain such a state indefinitely. For example, [[trade]] with the outside world has now been shut off, leaving you only what [[ore]]s are on your map for the production of mandate goods. In the (very) long run even those will run out. This can result in a breakdown of social order if you do not prevent your [[Hammerer]] from killing or maiming your dwarves. [[Shell]], [[bone]] and [[leather]] commonly acquired by [[hunting]] and [[fishing]] need to be supplied by previously established livestock, an [[underground river]] and a sealed off channel from a murky pool or river. If these resources are no longer available to your workers, moody [[craftsdwarf|craftsdwarves]] will be driven into suicide or worse. Rotten [[vermin]] [[corpse]]s begin to heap in your food supply, forcing you to dump these into inside [[refuse|refuse pile]]s, generating [[miasma]]. One small miscalculation of your [[fuel]] reserves may leave you without [[coke]] to refine further coal, and without a supply of timber for your wood burning [[furnace]] this can end your vital [[weapon]]s and [[armor]] production for a future counterattack. Unless an [[well|interior watersupply]] was established your wounded will die of dehydration.

With all these critical industries unproductive, dwarves dying, and friends mourning over the rotting heaps of slain loved ones, its important to remember your dwarves have nothing to do but throw funeral receptions, grief counseling sessions, and the occasional keg stand. This means they've all become one big happy family of friends, manically depressed from the loss of any dwarf.

In short, the attacking army can simply wait until your dwarves emo themselves to death.

[[Category:Guides]]

User:612DwarfAvenue

2009-12-12T05:28:29Z

612DwarfAvenue:

<gallery>
Image:154fyva.jpg‎|HAI2U
</gallery>

Also, thanks Shardok for fixing the pic!

User:612DwarfAvenue

2009-12-11T08:14:29Z

612DwarfAvenue:

User:612DwarfAvenue

2009-12-11T08:14:02Z

612DwarfAvenue:

[[Image:http://i43.tinypic.com/154fyva.jpg|thumb|middle|HAI2U]]

User:612DwarfAvenue

2009-12-11T08:13:36Z

612DwarfAvenue:

[[Image:http://i43.tinypic.com/154fyva.jpg|thumb|right|HAI2U]]

User:612DwarfAvenue

2009-12-11T08:06:55Z

612DwarfAvenue:

<gallery>DANGIT, HOW DO I SHOW PIC?</gallery>

User:612DwarfAvenue

2009-12-11T08:06:18Z

612DwarfAvenue:

<gallery>
[IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/154fyva.jpg[/IMG]
</gallery>

User:612DwarfAvenue

2009-12-11T08:05:21Z

612DwarfAvenue:

<gallery>http://tinypic.com/r/154fyva/5</gallery>

User:612DwarfAvenue

2009-12-11T08:03:19Z

612DwarfAvenue:

User:612DwarfAvenue

2009-12-11T08:02:37Z

612DwarfAvenue:

<gallery>
http://i43.tinypic.com/154fyva.jpg
</gallery>

User:612DwarfAvenue

2009-12-11T08:01:56Z

612DwarfAvenue:

[[File:http://i43.tinypic.com/154fyva.jpg]]

User:612DwarfAvenue

2009-12-11T08:01:28Z

612DwarfAvenue:

User:612DwarfAvenue

2009-12-11T08:01:07Z

612DwarfAvenue:

http://i43.tinypic.com/154fyva.jpg

User:612DwarfAvenue

2009-12-11T08:00:02Z

612DwarfAvenue:

[IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/154fyva.jpg[/IMG]

User talk:612DwarfAvenue

2009-12-08T05:31:49Z

612DwarfAvenue: Created page with 'So i herd u liek to look at my Discussion?'

So i herd u liek to look at my Discussion?

User:612DwarfAvenue

2009-12-08T05:30:55Z

612DwarfAvenue: Created page with 'So i herd u liek to look at my page?'

So i herd u liek to look at my page?

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2009-11-27T05:10:40Z

612DwarfAvenue: /* Not a Roguelike */

{{Archive|
# [[Talk:Main Page/archive1|Archive 1]]
}}

== World Painter Page ==
The wiki has needed a page on the [[World Painter]] for a while, so I've started one. The information in there is decent, but I'm relatively new to wiki editing, so the formatting probably isn't. If someone wouldn't mind cleaning it up a bit for me I'd really appreciate it. --[[User:Timmeh|Timmeh]] 01:15, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

:Well I don't know if someone helped you already, but it looks fine to me. --[[User:frandude|frandude]]

== French language wiki ==

Can we have interlanguage links with the [http://www.dwarffortress.fr/wiki/ French wiki]? -[[User:Alan Trick|Alan Trick]] 17:48, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Add a CptnDuck page? ==

Captain Duck is a DF video tutorial maker, which an impressive collection of 40 videos on youtube (and a few extra videos of sieges and arenas and whatnot), and explains how to do most everything, from magma forges to Dwarven justice. He adds humor to it and he's the reason a lot of people understand the game...I think we should give him a page. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Blackdoggie998|Blackdoggie998]]

:As it is insanely easy for anyone to sign up for editing priviledges on this site (I managed to, after all), I see no need to make one for him when he could make one for himself. However, if you wish to add user:CptnDuck, or invite him to make one himself, feel free. He can link to all of his tutorials from his user page. They even be searchable through that lovely little box to the(my) left. (Who knows where it is on your skin.) -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

:P.S. Does it seem odd to you to have it say "unsigned comment by [username]"? Or is that just me? -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, just a little after the previous one.
:: Clicking 'unsigned' gave me all the explanation I need, might want to do the same [[User:Kinzarr|Kinzarr]] 23:27, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

:We don't need a userpage for him, but a page with the assembled listing of all his (and others of equal quality) video tutorials wouldn't be a bad idea at all. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

== Articles on Olivine and other generic stones ==

There is a current discussion as to whether or not [[Olivine]] (and perhaps some few other stones) are duly covered on the current [[stone]] page, or are truly worth having their own article/page. This relates to a larger question of how this wiki is organized, and "What deserves a page" in a general sense. Any interested are encouraged to chime in, if only with a "me too" post pro or con. See [[Talk:Olivine]] for an idea of the issue. I'd like to have the debate move from the specific Olivine page to here since this is a more general issue that affects many potential pages. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 21:29, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:I'm not really sure which way to go on this one. A lot of otherwise useless stones would need their own articles if the guidelines were expanded... and yet, there's a good amount of useful information that's not on the main pages, that would further clutter them if it were added; And permitting more individual pages would solve both those problems. I guess this ends up being a vote both ways, with provisions on each. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:54, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:My vote is, if someone can make it amusing, then sure. If someone is of the bent to enjoy making such a page, then again, sure... otherwise, leave it at the bottom of the pile of "things that someday we might get around to if we feel like it" and don't stress. The relevant data is covered (or will be when someone notices it's not), and everything else is gravy. Beside, what would you rather do, play the game, or figure out how to make a whole page of jokes about how gneiss nice is.... (or did I get that backwards?)... ? --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

::All relevant information is covered, yes. But not necessarily on a relevant page. Before the Olivine page was made you couldn't learn that olivine may contain native platinum from any page related to olivine or stone in general.
::Another example is kaolinite. You can look it up in the table of Other Stone to see it can be found in sedimentary rock. But in order to see that it may itself contain alunite and marcasite you have to go through the entire table (or use the browser search function). Now, in order to see if it may contain anything else, you have to notice the note at the top of the page (just above the table of contents) that points to Metal Ore and Gem, whith another two tables you have to search through. (Kaolinite may contain turquoise). --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 21:44, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:It's not just about "which stones" - it's a larger question of how the wiki is organized and presented. Should each separate and distinct item get its own page, like the current one- or two-line articles on [[vial]]s, [[instrument]]s or [[Restraint|chain]]s, (just as random parallel examples of some [[finished goods]] that have their very own, very short, very dull, and predictably repetitive articles.) Surely the [[Masons guild]] and [[miners guild]] don't deserve or need separate articles. Do we need a separate and largely redundant article for every trap weapon? What about the cookie-cutter articles on ''every'' individual animal? The GCS deserves its own, and many others, but one on each separate type of shark and hunting cat? There is no actual article there, only a template.

:Quivers and bolts are sub-sections of the [[crossbow]] article, and I think that's a ''great'' call. Olivine, talc and kaolinite are merely similar examples, distinct enough to warrant special treatment, but on the borderline of being so small to each only represent a stub. Ultimately, I don't think a functional formal definition would be easily achieved - rather guidelines and a fuzzy target, combining related info into groups with optimal size limitations (both lower end and upper end). Perhaps a template should not be forced on every lesser example, but they could be grouped into a table on their own article, "other stones of note" or "sharks" or "finished goods" or whatever.

:In many ways, our only current guidelines are "what has been done so far" - and that varies widely and wildly. Too often, pages are cobbled onto related ones, or split off just because its a new topic, if a brutally short one. Myself, I'd like to see most related articles of less than 4 lines or so get grouped into larger, more universally informative articles, and anything larger than maybe 5 full sub-sections be considered for splitting up. If an item stands out from the rest, it should stand out somewhere, in an article - but that doesn't mean it has to have its very own, or invite every similar item to do so as well.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 03:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Please check out the (no longer) current [[Chalk]] page and tell me what you think. ... which is to say, it doesn't /have/ to be a stub, does it? It can be rich and detailed and sadly unamusing. It would please me to continue to do all stones in this manner, or another manner of your choosing.... Thus negating fussing over "this one was done this way, that one was done that way" arguments. I'll get to them all, in the order they appear on the [[Stones]] page. ... assuming you guys are ok with that. --[[User:Teres Draconis]] 08:28, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:: P.S. Who's the outpost manager of this place, anyways? I'd like to know to whom I should be pandering. --jaz

::: I think 1) you should take time to read, if not learn the wiki format guidelines, 2) you should sign with your REAL user name, and stop using a pseudonym, and 3) you should not break someone else's post with yours in between their paragraphs. As to the chalk page, I think it's over-enthusiastic and pays no attention to previous article style or formatting precedent - which may be a good thing or a bad thing, depending. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::: 1) You're right, I'm sorry.
::::2) We've discussed user names on [[User_Talk:Teres_Draconis#Naming Conventions|my talks page]]. (Also, <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> still puts "jaz"... why bother with the link when it's just a P.S.?)
::::3) I'm sorry. I was (apparently) trained wrong, and that was a /long/ time ago. I was taught (20 years ago) that when responding, to do so in-line, so that people can tell what the response is actually relating to. (Like an actual conversation, except with a time warp. You say something, I respond, someone else adds, we all move on to the next topic.) It supposedly adds clarity. The style and curtesy rules of such things has changed. I can see I'll need to update myself. Thank you for pointing that out. =)
::::4) I was hasty. I had to have meatspace people explain to me why, as wiki-''writers'', you would not want so much detail on a page. Especially when, with every new game release, any given page on the wiki might need an over haul. I was only looking at it from the end-user perspective of "If I'm looking for information, I don't want a page that just tells me to go look at the three pages I've already looked at. I want a page that reduces the noise of the irrelevant, and distills to just that specific (sub-)topic." I /don't/ see the point of six pages that are identacle except for title, and all only three lines long. If it's got it's own page, it should have it's own page. If it just links back to the three pages that linked to it, and they all link to each other already, what's the point? If the only thing Chalk has going for it is that it's flux, why not just make a note on the [[Stone]] page reading, "These three rocks can be used as flux" and link to the flux page from there? Why should chalk have it's own page, if it's not going to be richly detailed and, you know, informative? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::The templates are there because they are pretty, detailed, and condensed ways to display some key information. Rather than expanding existing information so that it takes up more space, it's more productive to add things that you think are lacking. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:15, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::: I changed the other [[Stones]] table to allow for interesting minerals that are in other[[Stones]] to be posted.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:17, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:What would actually be helpful is a [[Geology]] primer, indicating how layers and inclusions are placed, where, and what the implications of "You have struck XXX" are. I know, now, that if it's olivine, I have a chance of finding veins of native platinum. One good page explaining what all of the geological processes mean would be a lot more useful then all of the various descriptions of exploratory mining. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 22:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::That sounds like a great idea.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:46, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::I agree! But I have no idea how to write it. Most of what I know about geology I learned from looking at the raws. Everything else is "OMG, is that a ''rock''?! I've heard of those!" - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::"More useful" to some, but I agree it would be a great addition. Also, the more I think about it, the more I like what MrDG did with the table in Other Stone - tables could condense any and all small, individual articles into single pages w/ (sortable?) tables where all these various similar objects could be compared/contrasted at a glance. Templates are perfect when there is a lot of various info, but if the different topics (semi-generic stones, animals, finished goods) all differ only in one or two details, and there is just not that many variables to begin with, a Table would be (imo) preferable. ''(And imo that table now covers such stones as Olivine well, to get back to the original example that sparked this discussion.)''

::As an additional example of how current stub-articles could be combined into a simple table, I've made this page - [[Example - some fish]] - which could be a model for such. (A page/table with all the "Sea-creatures" would be more likely approp, but this was faster for now.) It would replace every stub-article on related "generic" items, but any truly noteworthy items would still have their own full articles for expanded information and commentary (here, "carp"). It still has 100% of the prev information, but also allows immediate comparison and contrast, and, if sortable, allows a User to more easily compare relations between similar aspects (like "biome", in this example.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::: Is it possible to put the expandable version of the raw ("game object data (show)" seen at the bottom of the [[carp]] page) inside the table, instead of the whole thing? Or does the one preclude the other? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Actually, if someone finds it easy to extract that information from the .RAWs, I would find that an improvement on what [[Creatures]] currently has. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 17:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::If someone here knows PHP they may be able to write a new wiki hook that pulls information from raw entries. That would make many things much easier. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Which information do you want extracted? I can probably do it for you, but you may have heard, I'm in the doghouse for not paying attention to style and formating rules. =/ Show me what there is, and one example of what you want, and I can probably do it for you with a minimum of stupid questions. ... ''Probably.'' - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::@ jaz, Dec - Did either of you look at this sample table? [[Example - some fish]] Does that cover what you were envisioning? It's just a rough idea - but it could work the same way that the table on the [[stone]] page currently does, to cover all the generic, almost-identical objects. Same w/ finished goods, weapon traps, probably many other sim categories of like items.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I've read this sort of. My view is, wikis add value to the game far more for noobs than they do to legends who have been around since when the z-axis was just an idea. With this in mind, I reckon if everything with a name in the game had an article that would be *A Good Thing* (tm). Just my own opinion, feel free to disagree. Ideally, articles for things like stones should contain a template constructed from the raws, with prose/dialogue manually added.
Even things like [[screw pump]] could have a template driven section, advising what the components are / who makes it etc. Maybe <nowiki>{{building|Building Name|Component 1:Component 1 name|Component X| component X name|Constructed by|trade}}</nowiki> or similar.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 08:45, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:I agree, probably, although that sounds like a lot of work. I think the stone templates and articles could do with a bit of a cleanup and more in-game information. I mostly use the articles to see if there's anything notable about a particular stone and then check out the wikipedia page. Some of the wikipedia links are broken or indirect now because disambiguity pages have been added since. Also, the wikipedia links are right at the bottom of very long boxes listing ores and gems and the like - I suggest adding drop down boxes to the templates that contain all that information but which are minimized by default. Or changing the template so that the wikipedia link wraps around the stone name at the top. --[[User:Harmonica|Harmonica]] 01:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Way late to this party, apologies. Tables are no good (to me) if they aren't sortable. The World Ends With You (a Nintendo DS game) Wikia portal/wiki thing has an ''awesome'' method for adding sortable tables. Some gadget called [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki Semantic MediaWiki] that hooks into the Wiki to automatically pull data out as you request it, then display it in easy-to-read and use sortable tables. The TWEWY Wikia has [http://twewy.wikia.com/wiki/The_World_Ends_With_You:Semantic_MediaWiki a page on it] for their editors, giving a few examples of how powerful it is. Their use of the tool is to easily pull information from a table of 304 items, each containing 30 attributes, to generate lists comparing and compiling various items. Hugely powerful, extremely flexible.

This type of tool would work wonderfully with a PHP RAW parser, or even simple dumps of the RAWs to the Wiki. Think of how easy it would be to update the entire Wiki across the board when new versions come out. New critters? Changes to existing critters? Update the information in one spot and it trickles down through the entire Wiki! That's in addition, of course, to being able to, say, generate tables listing how many bones each creature drops when killed, then sort to see which one drops the most. Pretty sweet stuff.

With some sort of system in place for wading through all the data on the wiki, one wouldn't have to worry about having too much information, right? -- [[User:Blank|Blank]] 04:44, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Particularly for stone, I think that it would be a good idea to describe each individual stone relative to other, similar stones. Let's use [[sandstone]] as an example. Suppose that I read (either in its own article, or in a table) something along the lines of "Sandstone is a [[sedimentary]] layer. Unlike most sedimentary layers, it may contain [[aquifers]] or veins of [[native copper]]." If I already know what a sedimentary layer is (and how it differs from other types of layers), this information will be much easier to process and much more useful than a full list of everything that appears in sandstone. If I have no idea what a sedimentary layer is, this will tell me that there are several sedimentary layers and that they all have many things in common, which is again more useful than a list of everything that appears in sandstone. --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 08:56, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
:That's not the way this (any?) wiki is set up. The idea is that a lesser concept (here, "sandstone") need not include redundant info from a larger, parent concept (here, "sedimentary layer"). If you don't know what a sed'y layer is (or an aquifer or a vein or whatever) you click that link. If, then, you don't know what a "layer" is, you click that link. Sounds good at first, but if every lesser article included an explanation, even a quick synopsis, of the info for all relevant articles on broader, umbrella concepts, the articles, and this wiki as a whole, would explode beyond usefulness. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks for making my point for me. If you look at the current sandstone article, it lists everything contained in sandstone. Looking at just the ores and non-generic stones, we have: Native copper, Hematite, Limonite, Magnetite, Native platinum, Tetrahedrite, Bituminous coal, Lignite, Bauxite. All of these except for native copper appear in every sedimentary layer. That's not even counting all of the generic stone (especially gypsum with its five other types of generic stone contained in it) and (mostly low-value) gems. 95% of the text in this article is redundant, and could easily be summarized by "This layer is exactly like every other sedimentary layer except for these two differences". --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 09:06, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Ah - ''that's'' your point. (When you said "describe", I thought you were advocating a narrative commentary on and verbal expansion of the info included in the sidebar.) When I was talking about not having redundant info, I was talking text - which is quite terse in this case, exactly because of the point you make. Those sidebars were designed to encapsulate the key info, an "at a glance" sort of thing, to avoid exactly what you're talking about in narrative form. Are the sidebars redundant? Often, yes. But they are the style this wiki has adopted for ''all'' stone. So you're talking not just about changing sed'y layers, but the style approach to all stone, since they would not then be consistent across the board. (Not how I would have personally designed the layout, but it's there and it works, and well. Any stone, same layout, same info in the same place, bam got it.) And when discussing presentation and usability issues, any article has to be taken both individually and in the context of others "like" it - here, any "stone" article is the same layout, the same info at a glance, which (for now) trumps whatever redundancies exist. Perhaps a quick line such as you're stating would go well, since there is, indeed, very little unique to say about any one sub-type of sedimentary layer, and that is info in and of itself. (Take a look at any [[igneous extrusive]] except obsidian for something similar.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

A lot of people have been talking a lot of things about reorganizing the information on the stones pages. After browsing around on them for a while, I've found the information to be mostly scattered and difficult to draw conclusions from. For example, I wasn't aware that each geographic stone type had a base list of stones that can appear, while only some of them have a couple of unique stones that may appear along with that list. It wasn't until I began gathering all of that data together for myself, that I found the patterns. I had to work to tie it all together. So, I have a partially completed table of pulldown menus on my user page right now. If anyone's interested they could take a look and tell me what they think? (Yes, I know a lot of it is redundant. I have an idea on how to fix this, but I haven't completely decided yet) --Kydo 13:55, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

== Not a Roguelike ==

Dwarf Fortress only resembles a Roguelike in the sense that everything kills you. ASCII graphics haven't connoted Rogue-resemblance since Diablo came out with modern 3D graphics and was still considered a Roguelike.
[[User:LogicalDash|LogicalDash]] 22:08, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you for Fortress mode, but adventurer mode is rogue like.--[[User:Mjo625|Mjo625]] 22:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

:DF is rogue-like like.[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 08:59, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

LogicalDash, Diablo is in 2D, not 3D. --[[User:612DwarfAvenue|612DwarfAvenue]] 05:10, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

== Link to Add Quotes ==

To get help on how to add quotes to the main page, consult [[Talk:Main Page/Quote|this]] link.

== Incoming New Version ==

Guys. We might as well prepare for the new version that will be coming by the end of the year (maybe). What will need to change? Weapons and armor, the underground stuff... I don't know all of it. But it's extensive. Get ready.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
:Well, we don't know all the details, and names of jobs/items can change before actual release. [[User:Kurokikaze|Kurokikaze]] 16:14, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
:I don't see what this has to do with anything, i guess it's nice of you to tell us. But what do you mean "get ready?"
: Gird your loins, gentlemen. Or something.
::It'll be hard to cover every page - if you edit, try to follow up on links, etc. Might also have to check the "oldest pages" listing to see that they've all been updated (except it's broken atm). The worst currently is that we ''still'' have legacy crap from earlier versions in obscure corners and comments that's not relevant to current version. Bonus.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:11, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2009-11-27T05:08:36Z

612DwarfAvenue: /* Not a Roguelike */

{{Archive|
# [[Talk:Main Page/archive1|Archive 1]]
}}

== World Painter Page ==
The wiki has needed a page on the [[World Painter]] for a while, so I've started one. The information in there is decent, but I'm relatively new to wiki editing, so the formatting probably isn't. If someone wouldn't mind cleaning it up a bit for me I'd really appreciate it. --[[User:Timmeh|Timmeh]] 01:15, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

:Well I don't know if someone helped you already, but it looks fine to me. --[[User:frandude|frandude]]

== French language wiki ==

Can we have interlanguage links with the [http://www.dwarffortress.fr/wiki/ French wiki]? -[[User:Alan Trick|Alan Trick]] 17:48, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Add a CptnDuck page? ==

Captain Duck is a DF video tutorial maker, which an impressive collection of 40 videos on youtube (and a few extra videos of sieges and arenas and whatnot), and explains how to do most everything, from magma forges to Dwarven justice. He adds humor to it and he's the reason a lot of people understand the game...I think we should give him a page. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Blackdoggie998|Blackdoggie998]]

:As it is insanely easy for anyone to sign up for editing priviledges on this site (I managed to, after all), I see no need to make one for him when he could make one for himself. However, if you wish to add user:CptnDuck, or invite him to make one himself, feel free. He can link to all of his tutorials from his user page. They even be searchable through that lovely little box to the(my) left. (Who knows where it is on your skin.) -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

:P.S. Does it seem odd to you to have it say "unsigned comment by [username]"? Or is that just me? -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, just a little after the previous one.
:: Clicking 'unsigned' gave me all the explanation I need, might want to do the same [[User:Kinzarr|Kinzarr]] 23:27, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

:We don't need a userpage for him, but a page with the assembled listing of all his (and others of equal quality) video tutorials wouldn't be a bad idea at all. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

== Articles on Olivine and other generic stones ==

There is a current discussion as to whether or not [[Olivine]] (and perhaps some few other stones) are duly covered on the current [[stone]] page, or are truly worth having their own article/page. This relates to a larger question of how this wiki is organized, and "What deserves a page" in a general sense. Any interested are encouraged to chime in, if only with a "me too" post pro or con. See [[Talk:Olivine]] for an idea of the issue. I'd like to have the debate move from the specific Olivine page to here since this is a more general issue that affects many potential pages. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 21:29, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:I'm not really sure which way to go on this one. A lot of otherwise useless stones would need their own articles if the guidelines were expanded... and yet, there's a good amount of useful information that's not on the main pages, that would further clutter them if it were added; And permitting more individual pages would solve both those problems. I guess this ends up being a vote both ways, with provisions on each. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:54, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:My vote is, if someone can make it amusing, then sure. If someone is of the bent to enjoy making such a page, then again, sure... otherwise, leave it at the bottom of the pile of "things that someday we might get around to if we feel like it" and don't stress. The relevant data is covered (or will be when someone notices it's not), and everything else is gravy. Beside, what would you rather do, play the game, or figure out how to make a whole page of jokes about how gneiss nice is.... (or did I get that backwards?)... ? --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

::All relevant information is covered, yes. But not necessarily on a relevant page. Before the Olivine page was made you couldn't learn that olivine may contain native platinum from any page related to olivine or stone in general.
::Another example is kaolinite. You can look it up in the table of Other Stone to see it can be found in sedimentary rock. But in order to see that it may itself contain alunite and marcasite you have to go through the entire table (or use the browser search function). Now, in order to see if it may contain anything else, you have to notice the note at the top of the page (just above the table of contents) that points to Metal Ore and Gem, whith another two tables you have to search through. (Kaolinite may contain turquoise). --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 21:44, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:It's not just about "which stones" - it's a larger question of how the wiki is organized and presented. Should each separate and distinct item get its own page, like the current one- or two-line articles on [[vial]]s, [[instrument]]s or [[Restraint|chain]]s, (just as random parallel examples of some [[finished goods]] that have their very own, very short, very dull, and predictably repetitive articles.) Surely the [[Masons guild]] and [[miners guild]] don't deserve or need separate articles. Do we need a separate and largely redundant article for every trap weapon? What about the cookie-cutter articles on ''every'' individual animal? The GCS deserves its own, and many others, but one on each separate type of shark and hunting cat? There is no actual article there, only a template.

:Quivers and bolts are sub-sections of the [[crossbow]] article, and I think that's a ''great'' call. Olivine, talc and kaolinite are merely similar examples, distinct enough to warrant special treatment, but on the borderline of being so small to each only represent a stub. Ultimately, I don't think a functional formal definition would be easily achieved - rather guidelines and a fuzzy target, combining related info into groups with optimal size limitations (both lower end and upper end). Perhaps a template should not be forced on every lesser example, but they could be grouped into a table on their own article, "other stones of note" or "sharks" or "finished goods" or whatever.

:In many ways, our only current guidelines are "what has been done so far" - and that varies widely and wildly. Too often, pages are cobbled onto related ones, or split off just because its a new topic, if a brutally short one. Myself, I'd like to see most related articles of less than 4 lines or so get grouped into larger, more universally informative articles, and anything larger than maybe 5 full sub-sections be considered for splitting up. If an item stands out from the rest, it should stand out somewhere, in an article - but that doesn't mean it has to have its very own, or invite every similar item to do so as well.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 03:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Please check out the (no longer) current [[Chalk]] page and tell me what you think. ... which is to say, it doesn't /have/ to be a stub, does it? It can be rich and detailed and sadly unamusing. It would please me to continue to do all stones in this manner, or another manner of your choosing.... Thus negating fussing over "this one was done this way, that one was done that way" arguments. I'll get to them all, in the order they appear on the [[Stones]] page. ... assuming you guys are ok with that. --[[User:Teres Draconis]] 08:28, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:: P.S. Who's the outpost manager of this place, anyways? I'd like to know to whom I should be pandering. --jaz

::: I think 1) you should take time to read, if not learn the wiki format guidelines, 2) you should sign with your REAL user name, and stop using a pseudonym, and 3) you should not break someone else's post with yours in between their paragraphs. As to the chalk page, I think it's over-enthusiastic and pays no attention to previous article style or formatting precedent - which may be a good thing or a bad thing, depending. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::: 1) You're right, I'm sorry.
::::2) We've discussed user names on [[User_Talk:Teres_Draconis#Naming Conventions|my talks page]]. (Also, <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> still puts "jaz"... why bother with the link when it's just a P.S.?)
::::3) I'm sorry. I was (apparently) trained wrong, and that was a /long/ time ago. I was taught (20 years ago) that when responding, to do so in-line, so that people can tell what the response is actually relating to. (Like an actual conversation, except with a time warp. You say something, I respond, someone else adds, we all move on to the next topic.) It supposedly adds clarity. The style and curtesy rules of such things has changed. I can see I'll need to update myself. Thank you for pointing that out. =)
::::4) I was hasty. I had to have meatspace people explain to me why, as wiki-''writers'', you would not want so much detail on a page. Especially when, with every new game release, any given page on the wiki might need an over haul. I was only looking at it from the end-user perspective of "If I'm looking for information, I don't want a page that just tells me to go look at the three pages I've already looked at. I want a page that reduces the noise of the irrelevant, and distills to just that specific (sub-)topic." I /don't/ see the point of six pages that are identacle except for title, and all only three lines long. If it's got it's own page, it should have it's own page. If it just links back to the three pages that linked to it, and they all link to each other already, what's the point? If the only thing Chalk has going for it is that it's flux, why not just make a note on the [[Stone]] page reading, "These three rocks can be used as flux" and link to the flux page from there? Why should chalk have it's own page, if it's not going to be richly detailed and, you know, informative? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::The templates are there because they are pretty, detailed, and condensed ways to display some key information. Rather than expanding existing information so that it takes up more space, it's more productive to add things that you think are lacking. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:15, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::: I changed the other [[Stones]] table to allow for interesting minerals that are in other[[Stones]] to be posted.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:17, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:What would actually be helpful is a [[Geology]] primer, indicating how layers and inclusions are placed, where, and what the implications of "You have struck XXX" are. I know, now, that if it's olivine, I have a chance of finding veins of native platinum. One good page explaining what all of the geological processes mean would be a lot more useful then all of the various descriptions of exploratory mining. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 22:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::That sounds like a great idea.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:46, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::I agree! But I have no idea how to write it. Most of what I know about geology I learned from looking at the raws. Everything else is "OMG, is that a ''rock''?! I've heard of those!" - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::"More useful" to some, but I agree it would be a great addition. Also, the more I think about it, the more I like what MrDG did with the table in Other Stone - tables could condense any and all small, individual articles into single pages w/ (sortable?) tables where all these various similar objects could be compared/contrasted at a glance. Templates are perfect when there is a lot of various info, but if the different topics (semi-generic stones, animals, finished goods) all differ only in one or two details, and there is just not that many variables to begin with, a Table would be (imo) preferable. ''(And imo that table now covers such stones as Olivine well, to get back to the original example that sparked this discussion.)''

::As an additional example of how current stub-articles could be combined into a simple table, I've made this page - [[Example - some fish]] - which could be a model for such. (A page/table with all the "Sea-creatures" would be more likely approp, but this was faster for now.) It would replace every stub-article on related "generic" items, but any truly noteworthy items would still have their own full articles for expanded information and commentary (here, "carp"). It still has 100% of the prev information, but also allows immediate comparison and contrast, and, if sortable, allows a User to more easily compare relations between similar aspects (like "biome", in this example.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::: Is it possible to put the expandable version of the raw ("game object data (show)" seen at the bottom of the [[carp]] page) inside the table, instead of the whole thing? Or does the one preclude the other? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Actually, if someone finds it easy to extract that information from the .RAWs, I would find that an improvement on what [[Creatures]] currently has. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 17:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::If someone here knows PHP they may be able to write a new wiki hook that pulls information from raw entries. That would make many things much easier. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Which information do you want extracted? I can probably do it for you, but you may have heard, I'm in the doghouse for not paying attention to style and formating rules. =/ Show me what there is, and one example of what you want, and I can probably do it for you with a minimum of stupid questions. ... ''Probably.'' - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::@ jaz, Dec - Did either of you look at this sample table? [[Example - some fish]] Does that cover what you were envisioning? It's just a rough idea - but it could work the same way that the table on the [[stone]] page currently does, to cover all the generic, almost-identical objects. Same w/ finished goods, weapon traps, probably many other sim categories of like items.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I've read this sort of. My view is, wikis add value to the game far more for noobs than they do to legends who have been around since when the z-axis was just an idea. With this in mind, I reckon if everything with a name in the game had an article that would be *A Good Thing* (tm). Just my own opinion, feel free to disagree. Ideally, articles for things like stones should contain a template constructed from the raws, with prose/dialogue manually added.
Even things like [[screw pump]] could have a template driven section, advising what the components are / who makes it etc. Maybe <nowiki>{{building|Building Name|Component 1:Component 1 name|Component X| component X name|Constructed by|trade}}</nowiki> or similar.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 08:45, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:I agree, probably, although that sounds like a lot of work. I think the stone templates and articles could do with a bit of a cleanup and more in-game information. I mostly use the articles to see if there's anything notable about a particular stone and then check out the wikipedia page. Some of the wikipedia links are broken or indirect now because disambiguity pages have been added since. Also, the wikipedia links are right at the bottom of very long boxes listing ores and gems and the like - I suggest adding drop down boxes to the templates that contain all that information but which are minimized by default. Or changing the template so that the wikipedia link wraps around the stone name at the top. --[[User:Harmonica|Harmonica]] 01:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Way late to this party, apologies. Tables are no good (to me) if they aren't sortable. The World Ends With You (a Nintendo DS game) Wikia portal/wiki thing has an ''awesome'' method for adding sortable tables. Some gadget called [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki Semantic MediaWiki] that hooks into the Wiki to automatically pull data out as you request it, then display it in easy-to-read and use sortable tables. The TWEWY Wikia has [http://twewy.wikia.com/wiki/The_World_Ends_With_You:Semantic_MediaWiki a page on it] for their editors, giving a few examples of how powerful it is. Their use of the tool is to easily pull information from a table of 304 items, each containing 30 attributes, to generate lists comparing and compiling various items. Hugely powerful, extremely flexible.

This type of tool would work wonderfully with a PHP RAW parser, or even simple dumps of the RAWs to the Wiki. Think of how easy it would be to update the entire Wiki across the board when new versions come out. New critters? Changes to existing critters? Update the information in one spot and it trickles down through the entire Wiki! That's in addition, of course, to being able to, say, generate tables listing how many bones each creature drops when killed, then sort to see which one drops the most. Pretty sweet stuff.

With some sort of system in place for wading through all the data on the wiki, one wouldn't have to worry about having too much information, right? -- [[User:Blank|Blank]] 04:44, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Particularly for stone, I think that it would be a good idea to describe each individual stone relative to other, similar stones. Let's use [[sandstone]] as an example. Suppose that I read (either in its own article, or in a table) something along the lines of "Sandstone is a [[sedimentary]] layer. Unlike most sedimentary layers, it may contain [[aquifers]] or veins of [[native copper]]." If I already know what a sedimentary layer is (and how it differs from other types of layers), this information will be much easier to process and much more useful than a full list of everything that appears in sandstone. If I have no idea what a sedimentary layer is, this will tell me that there are several sedimentary layers and that they all have many things in common, which is again more useful than a list of everything that appears in sandstone. --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 08:56, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
:That's not the way this (any?) wiki is set up. The idea is that a lesser concept (here, "sandstone") need not include redundant info from a larger, parent concept (here, "sedimentary layer"). If you don't know what a sed'y layer is (or an aquifer or a vein or whatever) you click that link. If, then, you don't know what a "layer" is, you click that link. Sounds good at first, but if every lesser article included an explanation, even a quick synopsis, of the info for all relevant articles on broader, umbrella concepts, the articles, and this wiki as a whole, would explode beyond usefulness. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks for making my point for me. If you look at the current sandstone article, it lists everything contained in sandstone. Looking at just the ores and non-generic stones, we have: Native copper, Hematite, Limonite, Magnetite, Native platinum, Tetrahedrite, Bituminous coal, Lignite, Bauxite. All of these except for native copper appear in every sedimentary layer. That's not even counting all of the generic stone (especially gypsum with its five other types of generic stone contained in it) and (mostly low-value) gems. 95% of the text in this article is redundant, and could easily be summarized by "This layer is exactly like every other sedimentary layer except for these two differences". --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 09:06, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Ah - ''that's'' your point. (When you said "describe", I thought you were advocating a narrative commentary on and verbal expansion of the info included in the sidebar.) When I was talking about not having redundant info, I was talking text - which is quite terse in this case, exactly because of the point you make. Those sidebars were designed to encapsulate the key info, an "at a glance" sort of thing, to avoid exactly what you're talking about in narrative form. Are the sidebars redundant? Often, yes. But they are the style this wiki has adopted for ''all'' stone. So you're talking not just about changing sed'y layers, but the style approach to all stone, since they would not then be consistent across the board. (Not how I would have personally designed the layout, but it's there and it works, and well. Any stone, same layout, same info in the same place, bam got it.) And when discussing presentation and usability issues, any article has to be taken both individually and in the context of others "like" it - here, any "stone" article is the same layout, the same info at a glance, which (for now) trumps whatever redundancies exist. Perhaps a quick line such as you're stating would go well, since there is, indeed, very little unique to say about any one sub-type of sedimentary layer, and that is info in and of itself. (Take a look at any [[igneous extrusive]] except obsidian for something similar.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

A lot of people have been talking a lot of things about reorganizing the information on the stones pages. After browsing around on them for a while, I've found the information to be mostly scattered and difficult to draw conclusions from. For example, I wasn't aware that each geographic stone type had a base list of stones that can appear, while only some of them have a couple of unique stones that may appear along with that list. It wasn't until I began gathering all of that data together for myself, that I found the patterns. I had to work to tie it all together. So, I have a partially completed table of pulldown menus on my user page right now. If anyone's interested they could take a look and tell me what they think? (Yes, I know a lot of it is redundant. I have an idea on how to fix this, but I haven't completely decided yet) --Kydo 13:55, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

== Not a Roguelike ==

Dwarf Fortress only resembles a Roguelike in the sense that everything kills you. ASCII graphics haven't connoted Rogue-resemblance since Diablo came out with modern 3D graphics and was still considered a Roguelike.
[[User:LogicalDash|LogicalDash]] 22:08, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you for Fortress mode, but adventurer mode is rogue like.--[[User:Mjo625|Mjo625]] 22:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

:DF is rogue-like like.[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 08:59, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

LogicalDash, Diablo is in 2D, not 3D. --[[User:612DwarfAvenue|Menaces with spikes of Humor.]] 05:08, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

== Link to Add Quotes ==

To get help on how to add quotes to the main page, consult [[Talk:Main Page/Quote|this]] link.

== Incoming New Version ==

Guys. We might as well prepare for the new version that will be coming by the end of the year (maybe). What will need to change? Weapons and armor, the underground stuff... I don't know all of it. But it's extensive. Get ready.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
:Well, we don't know all the details, and names of jobs/items can change before actual release. [[User:Kurokikaze|Kurokikaze]] 16:14, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
:I don't see what this has to do with anything, i guess it's nice of you to tell us. But what do you mean "get ready?"
: Gird your loins, gentlemen. Or something.
::It'll be hard to cover every page - if you edit, try to follow up on links, etc. Might also have to check the "oldest pages" listing to see that they've all been updated (except it's broken atm). The worst currently is that we ''still'' have legacy crap from earlier versions in obscure corners and comments that's not relevant to current version. Bonus.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:11, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

40d:Adventurer mode

2009-08-26T06:51:04Z

612DwarfAvenue: /* Other Humanoids */

In '''adventurer mode''', you pick a race ([[dwarf]], [[human]], or [[elf]]) and start out in either a [[Site|town]] of your race or in a previous [[fortress]] you played on. You can receive [[quest]]s, venture into the wilderness to find [[caves]], abandoned towers and other [[Site|villages]]. You can even visit your old [[Fortress|fortresses]] and find whatever riches were left to be guarded by the [[creatures]] that sealed the fate of your [[fortress]].

The user interface differs somewhat from [[fortress mode]]; you may want to refer to the [[Adventure Mode quick reference|quick reference]] guide, or examine the detailed [[controls]] page. [[Site map]] may also prove useful.

== Your first adventure ==

=== Picking a race ===
When it comes to picking a race, there is difference in [[skills]]. [[Dwarves]] cannot wear [[human]] sized [[armor]], and are somewhat limited in the [[weapons]] they can wield due to their size. [[Elves]] have a slightly different set of [[skills]]. [[Humans]] are generally fairly well-balanced, and are the easiest to acquire quests from. Each race fares differently in combat; you may wish to look at the races' pages for the finer details.

=== Choosing skills ===
Basically, if you want to start with a [[weapon]], you need to avoid having the most points spent in unarmored/[[wrestling]]. If you, for example, choose to start out with most points in [[swordsman]], you will start out with a [[sword]]. When you have chosen your preferred set of [[skills]], you can press {{key|Enter}} to embark. The higher the [[skills]] in [[weapons]]/[[armor]] determine the quality of the equipment you start out with.

All the [[skills]] you see CAN be improved through use in game, so don’t worry about spreading them out completely evenly. In general, pick the [[skills]] you think you’re going to use. The [[skills]] are pretty self explanatory but its recommended that you put at least a few points into [[shield]] / [[armor]] and into a type of weapon. Be warned that [[weapon]] [[skills]] generally take a while to level up, so placing a good deal of points into a singe weapon may be to your advantage. Also keep in mind that your skills determine what kind of equipment you have in the beginning, ie high sword skill means you’ll start with a sword. For information on the weapons and the other aspects of combat, please check the combat section. It might also be a good idea to use a point or two for swiming, otherwise you might end up drowning in a puddle.

=== Setting out ===
If you chose human, you will start out inside the Mead hall. You will see the Mayor (purple) as well as the occational townsperson. Press {{key|k}} and talk to the Mayor. Press 'services' for a [[quest]]. You can talk to the Citizens and recruit them to your party for some additional combat aid if they feel like it (note, people with no combat skills are unlikely to follow you, and the major and town guards never will.) If you choose dwarf, you start out in a region just outside the entrance to a given fortress. There is a [[mayor]] or the [[king]] himself inside the fortress.

Be sure to read the [[Adventure Mode quick reference]] or use the help files for more information on the commands in Adventure mode.

=== Survival ===
Congratulations, you’ve created a character and are now about to embark on your fantastic adventure! For now, lets focus on the bare bones of staying alive shall we? First things first, you need food and water. If you’re a human you start with some, but baring that you may need to find a waterskin. These can be bought in human towns, specifically at the shop. DO NOT STEAL THESE OR ANYTHING ELSE. Do not pick anything up and walk outside the store before you trade for it. Why? Because you are currently weak and your neck is currently arrow bait. After getting the water skin, simply find a water source and hit (Shift+I) to interact with the object. Press the letter of the Water skin and you should be able to fill it from the water source. After it’s full press (e)to open the Eat menu and select the water. Food can be acquired from stores eaten in the same way. Beware, you won't be able to swim if you are hungry, thirsty or if you haven't slept for a day or two. If you get drowsy, just find a bed in a city or just find a good place to sleep. Avoid sleeping in an hostile place, if you don't want to have a bit too much fun.

Now that you know how to work your mouth we can move on to miscellaneous tips for survival. Firstly, you are very tasty and chances are (unless you’re an elf) the wildlife will soon be attempting to eat your face. A bear or cougar isn’t too much of a problem because there’s only one, the real problem will be wolf packs.
A single wolf is easy to dispatch, but a dozen or so can prove very problematic indeed. Beware large packs until you’ve gained a little experience. Secondly, do not piss off the towns folk, as they tend to have guards. Lastly, beware of taking quests or attempting things before you’re ready, as you will more than likely have tons of [[fun]]
=== Civilization? ===
Elves live out in the forest, literally. Although defined to specific regions on the map, they have no structural wealth whatsoever. Some trees are named.

Humans live in towns comprised of buildings and often a paved road. Human villages are highly modular. The small 5x5 buildings are citizen houses and are marked with an "H" on the town auto-map. Medium buildings are stores, marked with a symbol that indicates what they sell - food, weapons, clothing, and two kinds of trinkets (incidentally, armor and clothing is sold in the same building). As of the current version, you start in the mead hall which is marked with an "M" on the automap. There are one or two apartment buildings buildings which are two stories, with six rooms a story; they are also marked with an "H." There are two really large buildings - the "T"emple and the a fort-like building that is marked with "K." Temples tend to have two or three levels, and a pool of water, while the "K" buildings are three or four floors high and are almost entirely empty (they will occationally contain random smatterings of clothing though, if you're looking for things to sell.)

Dwarves live underground. Their entrances are large square pits with stairs around the perimeter, and a row of leading down into the fortress halls at the bottom. The main halls are wide and have pillars near the walls, long and occasionally turn corners. Different levels in the fortress are marked by a row of ramps with two pillars on the side (walk towards the side of the ramp that has the pillars) and, although the number of floors in a fortress can vary, they are usually little and only become deep if the lay of the land above is variable. There are one 1-tale wide hallways, empty rooms, and scant Dwarves in these pre-fab fortresses. It's obvious the computer is playing a completely different game than you are in [[Fortress Mode]]!

Goblins live in [[obsidian]] towers, usually found built in twos, though they both don't necessarily have to be built up. One could be a "tower," one could be an over-glorified "basement." There is probably a temple nearby, completely similar to human temples. Goblin towers have tight 1-wide hallways, spacious and empty rooms, and strange hall extensions that end in remote cross-like dead-ends. Like dwarf fortresses, there is rarely anything in a Goblin tower asides from Goblins, and they have a strange tendency not to attack non-Goblin visitors. They seem to have lots of children.

You may come across what the map defines as a "Goblin" city that is actually populated by Humans or Dwarves living in or around the towers.

=== Trading ===
In towns you can find merchants inside some [[buildings]]. Talk to them to trade with them. After buying an item, you must pick it up manually from somewhere in the shop. {{K|l}}ook around for an item without $ signs around it.

==== Selling ====
You can also sell things to traders. Bones, corpses, body parts and rocks are not valuable, no matter how attached you are to a particularly aerodynamic kobold head. Small creatures discovered while {{k|L}}ooking Carefully may be worth a small amount of money. In order to sell or buy items, stand adjacent to the shopkeeper in his store, and {{k|k}}onverse with the shopkeeper. Select "Trade" and press {{k|enter}} to open the trade window.

Select each non-worthless item you wish to sell, and then set a price using the following format{{verify}}:
* {{k|a}} asking for 9000☼
* {{k|s}} +100☼
* {{k|d}} +10☼
* {{k|f}} +1☼
* {{k|g}} reset to 0☼
* {{k|h}} -1☼ (offering)
* {{k|j}} -10☼
* {{k|k}} -100☼
* {{k|l}} offer 9000☼

The use of these keys may seem non-intuitive, and this is further complicated by the limit on your available offers by your current financial health.

Shopkeepers are used to adventurers with inflated ideas about the value of their goods, so it may be simplest to ask for 9000☼ for your goods, or offer 1☼ for theirs and suggest a {{k|t}}rade. The shopkeeper will counteroffer with the actual value of the goods, and will be quite delighted to accept a {{k|t}}rade at the price they've just quoted to you. You can then purchase things with your store credit. After the trade sessions, the balance of your coins will appear on a small table next to a chest.

[[Category:Adventurer mode]]

====Theft====
You may also pick up the item before buying it, but you should never walk out of a shop carrying an unbought item, as that is theft. It is punishable by death if you are caught, and excommunication if you are not. On any occasion when you have stolen goods from a store, ie goods bounded by the $$ signs, the game requires you to exit the site ''and'' travel a considerable distance before allowing you to travel. This may make a getaway more difficult if your adventurer is not already faster than anyone else. This only applies to goods in stores; killing townsfolk and taking their personal things, including those of the shopkeep still only requires exiting the site. The moment you are out of sight, you will be able to warp out as usual. Theft and murder remain within entities; even depopulating one country and stealing all its things will not generate ill response in another country.

====Managing coins====
Coins can and will encumber your adventurer, eventually reducing your speed. To reduce that effect you can try to exchange your copper and silver coins for gold ones. To do that you can purchase goods from a merchant to the sum of your copper coins, then sell them back. Check the merchant's chest to see how much gold and silver coins they have. You can delay the problem by selling your loot to many merchants, as they will try to pay you in higher denomination currency first.

A few goods are strictly superior to all forms of coinage as a store of value, most commonly giant cave spider silk items. A suitably sneaky (or powerful) adventurer can murder a few dwarves for such items for trade and sale for human goods. Giant cave spider silk is a non-renewable resource in a given world. Please harvest sustainably.

=== Equipping your adventurer ===
After acquiring [[armor]] from one source or another, you'll most likely want to equip it. To do this, first make sure it is in your possession--not on the ground. You can then {{key|w}}ear it, granted you don't already have too much on that equipment slot already. You can {{key|r}}emove or {{key|d}}rop inferior equipment as necessary.

[[Weapons]] and [[Armor#Shields and Bucklers|shields]] are handled differently. There is no explicit equipment command. Instead, they are automatically equipped when you either {{k|g}}et them from the ground or {{k|r}}emove them from your [[backpack]] - provided the hand that would wield them is free. So in order to change [[weapons]] or [[Armor#Shields and Bucklers|Shields]] you would need to {{k|p}}ut your equipped weapon into your [[backpack]] and then {{k|r}}emoving your new desired weapon. You do not need to drop weapons and equip new ones etc. Simply remember the {{k|r}}emove command and the {{k|p}}ut into container command.

It should be noted that the world of DF seems to have a lot of left handers, so do not be surprised if your character holds the weapon with the left hand and the [[Armor#Shields and Bucklers|shield]] with the right hand.

== Traveling the world ==

=== How-to ===
You can walk around the whole world tile by tile if you wish, but given the size of the world, you might want to consider using another method. Pressing {{key|T}} will let see a very zoomed out map of the surrounding area. Moving about on this map is much faster, as well as it heals your adventurer, keeps him from starving, dehydrating, or getting tired. To exit this screen and explore the area you've reached, press {{k|>}}.

If there is more than one feature such as a [[Site|town]] or group of [[creatures]] on that map tile you will get to choose which one you want to arrive near.

Also while traveling on the world map, there is a chance that your adventurer can get randomly ambushed by enemies. When that happens, you must survive by either fighting them off or hide from them.

Jumping off [[Cliff|cliffs]] is not normally advisable; however, it is possible to do so by holding {{key|Alt}} while pressing the appropriate movement key. Jumping off [[Cliff|cliffs]], depending on how high you jumped, will most of the time cover your eyes in blood, which lessens visuals.

=== Finding a Quest ===
At this present point Quests can only be taken from people of leadership in an organization.

Human Weapon Masters: No matter what time of the day, human weapon masters will be in the mead hall, where you appear. However, if it is late they will immediately head for their homes so you may need to intercept them before they reach the door. The human capitals are not very different from the normal towns; humans have no central leadership so each weapon master is only a local leader of their own town, even at the capital the weapon master only rules the capital itself and not the other towns. Ignore the keeps; unless you're playing with a mod like LL no leaders hang out in the Keeps.

High Priests: Humans and Goblins will often suggest you ask the High Priest for quests but in all my times of doing this all this will do is allow you to join their religion. If you want to join the religion, the High Priest, as long as it is a reasonable time of day, should be wandering around the temple. Worth a visit at least as Temples are often the most interesting parts of a town/dark fortress because there are so many different kinds.

Dwarven Mayors/Kings/Queens: Hit and miss finding them, you'll generally find them on the outside of the fort but sometimes they move around; some have been known to run out of the fort and became a migrant unable to give out quests. Both Mayors and

Kings/Queens can be found and both will assign Quests, which is nice. If you can't find them outside the fort you shouldn't really bother as mountainhomes take forever to search. As one might imagine the Kings/Queens can only be found at the Capital.

Elven Druids: Druids, who look like flashing peasants, are generally found in the middle of their Forest Retreats but it can be a bit hit and miss as well. Just keep looking; they don't usually seem to move and hopefully will be in the same place once the Quest is completed. Probably the 2nd easiest to fine as you just look around the Forest. Despite people saying they dislike the Elves, in adventure mode they invariably give out the best Quests because Elves are not attacked by normal animals, so the only targets for your Quests will be Mega/Semi-Megabeasts or the leaders of enemy factions. Even though elves do have a capital there is nothing special to see there; still only one Druid who is only in charge of the Retreat, not the civ.

Goblin Weaponmasters/Demons: Probably the hardest to find; most Dark Fortresses are multitowered making it very difficult to find the leaders as there are several multifloored towers with twisty passages. Generally they will be in the tallest tower but this is not a definite fact. Sadly, they move around sometimes and are very difficult to find. The Demons are only in the Capital while weaponmasters exist in every Dark Fortress as local leaders. The goblins often have fun Quests as they generally seem to be at war with other civs.

Kobold Weaponmasters: Often hanging around the middle of a kobold cave camp; however, these guys cannot talk to you and as a result cannot give you a Quest (although you can use them to train your Sword skill)

=== Finding quest locations ===
After receiving a [[quest]], you will be able to track its location using the {{key|Q}}uest log. Initially it will just give you the location on the {{key|T}}ravel map, though a lesser-known feature is its use in finding the cave entry (or other such target) once you're already in the [[Site map|local map]]. Bring up the quest log again, highlight the quest objective you're after, and {{key|z}}oom to it. It should then provide you with a local map of your current area, complete with a 3x3 box of flashing squares. This box indicates the general location of the cave's mouth. You'll still have to do some searching, but at least it's narrowed down for you. You can bring up this map at any time that you're in the local area of a quest objective.

The compass on the left of the screen will also greatly help you in finding the entrance; the direction indicated should place you within one screen's distance of the entrance before it turns into "---".

=== Visiting abandoned fortresses ===
If you start an adventure in a world with one or more abandoned [[Fortress|fortresses]], you can take your adventurer to see the sites of your previous endeavors. When you find one of your old [[Fortress|fortresses]], you will find that everything is a mess. Items are scattered about, things are smashed up and there are probably new hostile inhabitants that you will need to fend off. Visiting your old [[Fortress|fortresses]] might prove to be rewarding, since you can find [[armor]] and [[weapons]] you made (if you made any). The best thing to be found in your [[fortress]] would probably be any left behind [[Legendary artifact|artifact]] [[weapon]] or [[armor]]. This is also probably the best (and only?) way to get [[Legendary artifact|artifact-quality]] [[weapons]] and [[armor]].

Also remember to check out any [[Engraving#Engravings|engravings]] you made while in [[fortress mode]]. When checking out [[Engraving#Engravings|engravings]] in adventure mode, they reveal a lot more specific information about the event that is engraved.

=== Combat ===
== The Weapons ==
Weapons are basically divided into ax, sword, spear, pike, mace, whip, bow and hammer, with various versions of these taking up the gray area. Swords are your jack of all trades weapon, doing reasonable slashing damage. They come in short, long and two handed varieties, with the two handed doing the most damage and the short doing the least. Axes are similar to swords and do slashing damage as well. They come in 3 types, battle ax, great ax and halberd. The battle ax does slightly less damage than the long sword while the halberd does the same damage as a two-handed sword. The Great ax is generally too large to use, but it does slightly more than the halberd in damage. The spear does piercing damage and is ideal for damaging internal organs and causing heavy bleeding and unconsciousness. It has no variations. The spear is much more likely to become stuck in its target, which can be a great benefit if used right and a curse if not. The Pike is, for all intents and purposes, the same as a spear. The mace and the hammer are generally the same thing, simply a big metal thing to club your enemies over the head. As expected, they do high damage but their bludgeoning attacks tend to be slower and less effective , if more hilarious, ways to dispatch your foes. The Maul, a hammer, is the highest damaging weapon in the game. The last weapon is the whip, which does gore damage. Its relatively weak but has its uses. The bow throws arrows, which act as tiny spears. Basically, a bow and crossbow is like having a very slow, long range spear.

== Weapon Tactics ==
Sword: Once again, your general fall back weapon. It’s good against almost everything, if not being that great against almost anything. Works well against both living and non-living enemies as it actively dismembers them.

Ax: Pretty much the same as a sword, though some people believe it hacks off limbs more commonly. Good against organics, acceptable against anything else.

Spear/Pike: Ok, here’s where we get a little bit more advanced. The spear is most effective against organic creatures because of two abilities, pierce damage and stick ins. Piercing damage does major harm to internal organs, causing pain, bleeding, vomiting, unconsciousness and death. Stick-ins are when the weapon becomes stuck in the target, allowing it to be twisted. Twisting increases bleeding and causes extreme pain. Because of these two factors spears and pikes are ideal for single combat against organic targets. The are less effective against multiple enemies (because of the stick-ins lowering kill-to-turn ratios) and are even less effective against non-organic enemies (ie bronze colossus).

Mace/hammer: These weapons rely on their ability to turn your opponent into a tasty pulp through repeated wacking. They break bones and bruise flesh, meaning that aside from a critical hit they generally are less likely to mortal wounds quickly. They are great for crippling organics and non-organics alike, but when it comes to a swift, efficient death they are generally less than perfect. The exception to this is high strength and mace/hammer skill which allows for instant head crushing.

Whip: The whip uses gore damage, which is similar to a cross between slash and pierce. It can cut off limbs but is more likely to slice up organs and cause extreme pain and bleeding. A few hits will generally render an opponent unconscious and perhaps even badly injured enough to eventually bleed to death. However, the whip is a slow outright killer, sometimes needing dozens of blows to actually finish its target.

Bow (and arrows): Arrows are much like spears, because of their piercing damage and all the benefits it has. The benefits it has however are its range and its ability to target multiple enemies. They are most effective against organic targets. You, unfortunately, are organic, which makes archers one of your biggest problems.

== Non-weapon tactics ==

Besides your weapons you have two other major forms of attack: Wrestling and throwing.

Wrestling: Wrestling can be preformed by standing next to an enemy and pressing (Shift+a) and then (enter) to switch to wrestling. You can wrestle any enemy, however things such as wolves, bears and big cats do not allow you to perform the more advanced moves. After catching hold of a body part you can perform a lock, which allows you to further sprain, break or cripple an opponent. With a free hand you can perform even more advanced moves, such as gouging out eyes or stealing weapons. To gouge eyes grab a head with an open hand, to steal a weapon, grab the weapon and then check your inventory with (Shift+I). press the button corresponding to the weapon and then press a to gain possession of it.

One of the best tactics for fighting high level weapon masters is to either break his weapon hand or to steal his weapon, essentially making him no more dangerous than a normal peasant.

Throwing: Throwing is the skill of…well basically throwing shit. And vomit. And bugs and spears and rocks so on. Just about anything can be thrown, sometimes with devastating results. While it seems like weapons (and arrows) tend to be more reliable in their damage causing abilities when thrown, just about anything can potentially be lethal. Picking up a worm and hucking it right through a dragon’s skull is not only possible, but has been done on multiple occasions. A warrior with a high throw skill is often times more dangerous with an arrow than a trained archer is.

=== Wounds ===
You or your enemy are going to get hurt in the course of your adventures and its pretty useful to know exactly what’s happening when you are. Here’s a quick guide to the various aspects of wounds.

== Wound indicators ==
Wounds come in several colors and are indicated on the status screen (press z to see your own status screen while pressing (l) to look at your enemy’s). The status screen will list your body parts in different colors to indicate how damaged they are.
White-unhurt and feeling fine

Light gray-slightly damaged, think a nasty scrape or cut.

Brownish yellow-moderately damaged, such as a mild sprain or the like

Yellow-Broken. Applied to joints it means literally broken, while applied to upper and lower body it generally means organ damage.

Red-Badly damaged. If you got this then chances are you’re in bad shape. Severely broken bones or ruptured organs. If this status is effecting anything even remotely vital you’re more than likely on your way to the grave.

Gray-lopped off or cut out. This is when you completely lose a body part. Effects include massive pain and bleeding along with ruining your promising juggling career.

== Wound effects ==
Hands-damage to the fingers or wrists can cause you to drop your held items, but usually only with yellow level damage. Losing a hand entirely gives you a serious handicap, which will more than likely lead to fun in the future.

Feet-Causes slowed movement and falling. If removed can cause permanent slowed movement. Removing both can cause a continuous on ground effect.

Legs-similar to feet, though often has increased bleeding and pain effects. Loss of one will usually result in death by bleed out. Even if you survive you’re more than likely on your way to death. Severed legs do make a lovely club though.

Arms- Damage to almost any part of the arm can cause items to be dropped. Loss of an arm is perhaps even worse than the loss of a leg, due to the loss of weapon and wrestling capabilities. Loss of both arms is both tragic and hilarious.

Head-Contains the brain, ears, mouth, nose, eyes and throat. Ears, nose and mouth are officially useless and can be cut off in an effort to appear cool. The brain, eyes and throat are however less disposable. Damage to the eyes results in loss of vision, permanent if the eyes are removed, and terrible pain. Its usually not possible to bleed to death from the loss of the eyes though. The throat is highly sensitive and damage causes both extreme bleeding and suffocation effects. The brain is the most important thing you’ve got and damage to it is an almost instant death. Any wound it receives will more than likely cause instant unconsciousness and severe bleeding.

Upper body. Contains the heart, lungs, upper spine and liver and kidneys. Both the kidneys and liver have similar effects, namely heavy bleeding and pain upon injury. The spine causes nervous system damage, which can have several, sometimes permanent effects. The lungs control breathing, so piercing them can cause suffocation. The heart is the main organ of the circulatory system and damage to it is almost always fatal through bleeding.

Lower body: Contains various organs like the stomach and spleen, all of which have the same effect of bleeding, pain and nausea. Nausea leads to vomiting, which make the wounded creature unable to attack. There is also the lower spine which has similar effects to the upper spine.

== Attack types and their wounds ==
Pierce-dangerous to organic creatures, you included. Often times objects with the pierce effect will become lodged in their target. Removing the weapon from its lodged position causes both increased pain and bleeding but often times can alleviate certain symptoms the piercing has caused.

Bludgeon: Breaks bones and cripples joints. Generally less dangerous to the internal organs than other damage. The danger comes from its ability to incapacitate you and then turn your head to mush.

Slash: Dangerous for its ability to sever limbs and cause bleeding. Beware its habit of decapitation.

Gore: Shreds internal organs, causing all sorts of nasty side effects. Almost worthless on non-organic enemies but can cause severe problems for you living sorts.

== Dealing with wounds ==
In adventure mode your wounds will heal if you travel (shift + t) and they’ll recover just about anything except a lopped off limb. If you can’t travel the best thing to do is try and run from battle if you’re badly wounded, since running will give you time to stop bleeding and suppress the pain. Beware dropping your weapon and make sure to pick it up before you make a run for it. If an arrow strikes you in the chest its best to leave it there while an arrow to the extremities can be removed.

=== <s>Living Shields</s> Companions ===

If you recruit some new members to your party, you'll not only gain extra damage output, you'll also have someone else to take the damage instead of you!

When you first start out, the easiest <s>human shields</s> friends to recruit are the drunks. They are found in human towns inside the [[tavern]] with the [[Mayor]] (the building you start in if you play a human). They will gladly come with you and block some blows for you. Drunks will usually attempt low-skill [[wrestling]] and (mostly) damage-less punches. Don't expect them to last long when you meet that [[Giant]] you are supposed to kill. Drunks are much rarer in the current version of the game, so it's unlikely that you'll find one.

To recruit someone into your party, press tal{{k|k}}, move the cursor over them, and press {{k|enter}}. Then in the conversation that follows, simply pick 'Join' from the list of options to ask them to accompany you. [[Children]], the Mayor, and [[Guard]]s don't want any part of this silly adventuring malarkey, but the occasional peasant will be bored enough to join you.

More detailed searches of towns of various races can yield other adventurers with some actual skills. The generally have a single weapon skill ([[Maceman]], [[Swordsman]], [[Spearman]] and so on) and some armor appropriate to the wealth of the town they were occupying. You will also find Guards around towns, and while they are combat-capable they will not shirk their duty in order to accompany you on your adventures.

Some otherwise eligible companions may rebuff your offer of becoming a living shield for one of the following reasons:

If the prospective meat shield considers himself more skilled than you are, he may rebuff you with, "Ha! Such enthusiasm from one such as yourself."
This can be remedied by training your skills until he judges you a bit more skillful than he is.

Another reason for someone to refuse to die protecting you is that you already have the maximum of 12 companions, and they will rebuff you by asking, "With a band so large, what share of the glory would I have?"
But look at it this way, at least your total party size is 13 when you count yourself! Now that's lucky!

Another possiblity is to asked your old, retired adventurers for help. They'll never say no unless your party is too big and they should be pretty capible since you trained them.

==== The Perils of the Wild ====

{{d for dwarf}}

You’ll face many creatures on your travels, several mega and semi-mega bests included if you’re taking quests. Heres a quick look at the more dangerous beasts (sentient or not) that you’ll meet.

=== The Mega and Semi-mega beasts and the sentient races ===

Bronze Colossus: Probably one of the hardest beasts to combat due to its massive strength, impressive natural armor and complete ignorance of pain, fear and bleeding. Bronze Colossi are basically walking, dwarf crushing statues that will never stop unless beheaded or outright obliterated. They have no organs and do not bleed, making them impossible to knock unconscious. Their immense strength makes them unlikely to give in to wrestling moves (though if you can manage to lock and break a limb it will snap off rather than just becoming useless.) Because of these resistances all you can really do is hack / shoot and hope that it dies before you do.

Dragon: The main danger of these beasts is their massive fire breath, which can consume dozens of spaces. A high block still is recommended before you fight them. A spear is a great weapon here, as it allows you to potentially knock them unconscious within a few turns. Arrows are also good, though staying at a distance can be dangerous because of the fire breath. Beware their bite, as it can cause major damage.

Hydra: a joke really, as It seems to lack the regenerative powers of its mythological cousin. It has 7 heads, but damage to one is as serious as damaging the head of a one headed beast. More than likely you’ll have it unconscious in a few turns regardless of what you use.

Titan: basically an organic bronze colossus. It is essentially a larger, stronger human, with all the weaknesses being the same. Piercing and goring damage can quickly weaken and incapacitate these beasts, but keep an eye out for its wrestling, which can cause some bad joint damage.

Cyclops: A weaker, smaller titan with one eye. Eye+arrow=win

Ettin: A two headed giant. Basically a stronger human, usually unarmed. Just hack it until it dies.

Giant: Just a giant human like thing. Stab it in the neck or break its limbs for massive damage.

Minotaur: Only thing really dangerous about this guy is his horns. Pretty good wrestler but nothing that should give a reasonably prepared adventurer any problems.

Humans: Should you wander into battle against a human force its in your best interest to disable their archers first. The only real danger humans have is their numbers and their use of items. Disarming or crippling dangerous guards or weapon maters is highly recommended, since as soon as they are weaponless they are essentially as good as dead.

Elves: They have wooden equipment, making them laughable most of the time. Once again, the only real threat is their archers and even then they are less dangerous than humans. Elves are generally known for being annoying dicks so its recommended that you slaughter the lot. If you are an elf its recommended that you have tons of fun.

Dwarves: Their advantage is their steel weaponry and crossbows. Their disadvantage is that their mountain homes are generally so large that you’ll only rarely fight more than one or two. Disable their weapon masters and archers then throw their own axes at them. Juggle their heads in front of their children.

Goblins: Like weaker dwarves, with less armor and less skill. They have a feeble sense of morals, meaning that they will only sometimes attack you after you hurt one of their friends. You can basically cleave right through them with ease.

=== Other Humanoids ===

These are creatures that in shape resemble something human, but have no society.

Antman: A half man half ant hybrid which lives in chasms. They have higher natural armor than a man, but rarely use tools. As long as you’re armed they should pose no problem.

Batman: Half man, half bat that lives in caves and chasms. They can fly and use weapons, though they rarely do. Attacks with punches and bites; the bites are the most potentially damaging because they cause gore damage. He is the night.

Blizzard man: Frosty’s asshole brother. Blizzard men are creatures of pure ice that strangely still have organs. They can bite and punch, with biting doing the most damage. They will melt in normal temperatures so they are only found in freezing areas.

Dark gnome: Mischievous mountain folk who enjoy hard liquor. They‘re basically dwarfs but smaller and no where near as dangerous. Its rare that you’ll even find them, but if you do they should pose no threat to you. They punch and bite but neither is noticeable.

Fire Imp: Little gremlin like things that are either constantly on fire or made of fire. They’re found only in subterranean lava pits, meaning that you’ll have to go searching for them if you’re ever gonna see one. They only bite (does burn damage rather than gore), but their real danger comes from their ability to set you on fire. Ranged combat is recommended, though darting forward, attacking and then jumping away might be effective if you have no other choice. They can also breathe fire at you though, so its again recommended to stay back.

Firemen: Like the fire imps, but better. They have the bronze colossus syndrome of having no organs, not bleeding, feeling pain or being able to have weapons stuck in them. They too can set you ablaze, but they’re much harder to kill before they do it. Bludgeoning can break and hence sever their limbs. Recommended that you fight from a distance. Luckily these things only live in underground lava, so you’ll never find them without going into very specific places.

Frogman: No not those things Race Banon was always killing, but half man half frogs that live in underground water. They can’t equip weapons and are very small, making them almost completely non-threatening.

Iron man: Millionaire Tony Stark puts on his…oops wrong one. Ironmen are like firemen but less dangerous because they aren’t on fire. They are basically smaller, less dangerous Bronze Colossi. When killed they leave a valuable iron statue. They appear only in chasms.

Leechman: Half man, Half leech, all sexy. They have no bones, but curiously do have arms (but no legs). They can suck blood, but considering they have no bones and every blow will almost always strike a vital organ its a lot more likely that blood will be coming out of it than you.

Lizardman: Half man, half lizard; lives in underground water. Punches and bites along with the ability to use items. Similar to many of the other half breeds, but with one notable exception. He’s a lizard.

Magma man: A man made of pure magma. Everything about this guy is the exact same as the fire man, with the exception that he can’t breathe fire. This makes him less dangerous at a distance. Stay back and throw stuff at him.

Merpersons: Tiny little mermaids and mermen. Not dangerous at all, and relatively rare to boot. They can equip items but you’ll probably never see one anyway.

Mountain Gnome: The same as a Dark Gnome, but less evil. Same things apply here.

Mud man: Like Ironman but made of mud. Can’t equip items and only has a weak punch as a form of attack, making it about as threatening as a mudpie. Lives in underground water.

Ogre: The middle ground between giant and human. Their punches and bites do a surprisingly small amount of damage, though they can use weapons. As with any big, organic moron its recommended to try and damage their organs to quickly incapacitate and kill them. Piercing damage is very useful.

Olmman: Half man, half blind cave salamander. Think Golum but even more messed up and without eyes. Their bites are surprisingly strong. Found only in subterranean water and even then only rarely. (personal note: Olms are pretty damn awesome things (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olm) they’re even on the money in one country.)

Ratman: Seems to attack with 4 turtle men cronies, who are surprisingly good warriors. But seriously, they’re about as weak as actual rats. They only come from chasms so don’t worry about them too much.

Slugman: Do I even have to say? it’s a dang slug man, do you think its dangerous? Its not. Just stab it in its deformed face.

Snail man: Think slug man, but with a shell that doesn’t actually offer any protection.

Snakemen: The only real threat these guys pose is their ability to inject poison by biting. If it does bite you its your best bet to try and quickly kill the snake man before his poison takes effect, since it can incapacitate you.

Troglodyte: Small, reptilian creatures that live underground. Not dangerous unless they attack in swarms and even then they are easily beaten by even a novice adventurer. Use organic combating techniques to deal with them.

Troll: There’s no real difference between this thing and an ogre. Kill them both the same way.

Werewolf: Or wolfman. Attacks alone and only bites with a goring attack. Bite can be dangerous but the fact that there is only one of him makes it a lot easier to fight. Fun to wrestle for experience.

=== Wildlife ===

Here’s the rundown of all the mundane beasties that you’ll run into

Beak dog: Basically what happens when parrot gets combined with Velociraptors. They’re a little smaller than a man but quick and use their beaks and claws effectively. Try not to get caught in the center of a group of them, backpedal and cut them down as they give chase.

Black Bear: These will only ambush you one on one, and given their relative small size and forgettable strength they should pose little threat unless you’re completely unskilled and unarmed. Because there’s only one they can be useful for wrestling practice since you can focus all your attention on them.

Bonobo: I’ve never seen one myself, though I’ve been told they’re ape like things. Considering their squishy organs it would be best to stab them in the groin.

Camel: Its…a camel. You’ll probably never see one.

Carp: BEHOLD, FOR ARMOK BREATHED LIFE INTO THE VERY ROCKS IN THE RIVERS AND COMMANDED THEM TO GO FORTH AND MUTILATE RANDOM PASSERS BY. TO HIS DWARVEN FOLLOWERS HE EXPLAINED IT THUS, “F*** YOU”-the tome of Armok, chapter 2. In all seriousness though, while they may be freaking fresh water sharks in the fortress mode, carp aren’t too dangerous in adventure mode. Their biggest advantage is their environment, being water which you can not breathe.

Cat: IT’S A KITTY! Anyways, you’ll almost always have too many of these things in fortress and you’ll never see them in adventure. Even if you did, what would you do with them? You wouldn’t hurt them would you? Fucking Nazi.

Cougar: Like a kitty, but bigger. Cougars are good wrestling practice and good shield training as well, what with the fact that Cougars suck so hard. If you get killed by this thing it was either insanely lucky or you have no arms.

Cow: It’s a cow. Kill it for free hamburgers. I’m actually not even sure if you can find the dang things in adventure mode.

Deer: You might see these running away from you in the woods. They’re harmless but good wrestling practice if you feel like strangling a defenseless animal.

Dog: WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF I’ve never seen one of these in adventure mode, but its pretty obvious what they are huh?

Donkey: Pulls wagons and things like that. You might see one but its not really worth attacking them.

Elephants: In prior versions elephants were murderous berserkers, but thankfully they’ve been made a little more realistic. They’re just as big and strong as you’d expect, but won’t bother you unless you walk up and stab’em a few times. Reasonably dangerous, so don’t poke them unless you’re ready.

Elk: Much like deer, though a little bigger and usually solitary

Fox: Another small animal that you’ll most likely never see. If you do however, its proper to light them on fire and scream “YIFF IN HELL”.

Giant bat: Bigger than a minotaur and more dangerous at times. Often encountered in low visibility areas where they can take you by surprise. Its best to avoid caves until you’re confidant in your blocking and combat skills.

Giant Cave Spiders: You’ll only rarely encounter these, because of their limited environment. You’ll know they’re near from the webs which hang around their homes. They are NOT to be meddled with. First and foremost, they do not feel pain and will never stop unless killed. Their high number of legs makes it likely that you’ll pointlessly hack away at the limbs while the mouth bites your head in half. Beyond these aspects the spider uses poison and sticky webs to ensnare you. Your best bet is to throw/ shoot it from a distance. If you can’t do that, use other piercing or goring weapons to damage its organs. Despite its ignorance toward pain, it still bleeds like any other animal, so a pierced heart is very effective.

Giant cave swallow: Pretty much harmless things, just big birds. If they harass you, break their wings and strangle them to death for wrestling points.

Giant Eagle: A major problem in fortress mode is little more than a pesky annoyance in adventure mode. If they are giving you trouble though, attempt to wrestle and break one of their wings. This should ground them and make them a much easier target.

Grizzly Bear: A little bigger than the Black Bear, though basically the same. Good for both wrestle and shield points. If they’re really giving you a hard time try catching both hands and its throat. This should not only make it impossible for it to attack, but also give you wrestle points.

Groundhog: Little rodent thingies. Zombie ground hogs are useful to strangle for wrestling experience. Besides that they’re only really good as golf balls for your putter (read Morningstar)

Hoary Marmot: A tiny forest dwelling creature. As harmless as it is delicious.
Horse: A beast of burden sometimes seen in human towns. They have an odd habit of going rouge and kicking children to death. Not to mention they’re some how smart enough to pull crossbow bolts out of their own legs. May cause random insanity if they attack a influential citizen.

Naked mole dog: Think enormous naked mole rat. Unless you’re both unarmed and unskilled these things are basically very bleedy shrubbery to hack your way through.

Mountain Goat: it’s a goat, that lives in the mountains. Likes to kill goblins and its not uncommon to find a few legends about goblin slaying goats. (On a personal note, I once found a goat named Bonecrusher or something like that, which only had one leg. One leg and 7 kills, including a Swordmaster. Don’t fuck with that goat)

Mule: Like a horse, but more inbred. Chances are you’ll never see them.

Musk Ox: Beasts of burden used by elves. Another thing you won’t see.

Pike: The fish, not the weapon. They’re nothing close to the carp and should be little more than particularly squishy speed bumps to you.

Raccoon: Forest rodents that you’ll never see. Make a nifty hat.

Rhesus Macaque :A nettlesome trickster in fortress mode, they are almost never seen in adventure mode. Even if you see them they’re very skittish and a single blow will send them running. Give’em a good strangle if you can catch one.

Unicorn: The random homicidal tendencies of the horse mixed with a dash of magic and a horn. They’re very aggressive for some reason, though not too hard to bring down. Watch out for that horn and stay away until you’re at least competent.

Whale: Big aquatic beast. Not dangerous unless in skeletal mode.

Wolf: And last but not least, the humble and numerous wolf. This is what is gonna be attacking you from now till forever. They’re dangerous the first few ambushes, but they quickly become nothing but barely noticed time wasters. Great for training up armor and shield, as they attack in packs and hence hit you many times, often with no effect. Early on, just be careful not to get caught in the middle of a pack and you’ll be fine.

=== Modifiers ===
Zombie: Zombie animals are just like their normal counterparts, with a few major exceptions. Firstly, they are no longer effected by pain or bleeding and their organs no longer matter. They are also much slower. This combination of increased difficulty in killing and decreased speed about evens out their threat level. Not too dangerous, unless the creature they’re based on is already strong.

Skeletal: All of the advantages of Zombie with none of the bad effects. Skeletal creatures are all immune to pain and do not bleed, but they remain just as quick as their living counterparts. Large skeletal beasts, such as dragons or whales are truly a terror to face.
[size=3]

== Avoid the impossible ==
Some things are harder than others. Decide for yourself if this is due to unbalancing of the game, realism or simply to add to the variety of challenges.

=== [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelob Shelob]'s in-laws, aka Giant Cave Spiders ===
Unless you are a legendary or better (ok, its not possible to go beyond legendary..) bow-/crossbowman, you should at all costs AVOID giant cave spiders (Unless, of course, you enjoy [[Fun]])!! They shoot a web at you, making you immobilized while they rip your limbs off one by one. Then when you finally break free from the web, and can attack again, you've probably lost your arms while lying on the floor and the spider is about to throw you by your head up into the roof. Cave Spiders bleed to death eventually, but they know no fear nor pain, meaning they will not black out even if you manage to inflict serious damage including severed limbs. They are also capable of surviving red-level wounds to the body and legs and multiple severed limbs for long enough to eviscerate an adventurer. Leave these for the living shields to deal with while you slip out the other way, ideally from the cave entirely, never to return.

Even if you are a legendary projectile weapon user, reconsider attacking a giant cave spider because in the tight quarters of a cave you might be shooting it from stealth when a giant rat or something similarly stupid walks next to you and triggers your loss of cover. The spider would then punish your arrogance immensely.

''Note'': If absolutely required they ARE killable, but you need luck, and lots of it. Adept swordsman + Proficient [[shield]] user + Skilled ambusher manages to sneak up on it and then counterstrike + block does the job. In a suicide swordsman test run I had dethoraxation (decapitation for spiders) = instakill on the first counterstrike, second GCS got a mortal wound before it webbed me and bled to death while trying to chew through me, only broke sword wielding hand and leg. Third spider broke my shield hand and had me mortally wounded in no time after that, although I eventually killed it after unwebbing myself. That makes it ~2.5/3 chances to win, not bad for a rookie. And I was healed after each successful spider kill.

''To conclude'': Basically, as long as your shield wielding hand is intact (and shield skill is high of course) you have pretty good chances of survival in 1 on 1, otherwise you're dead. Any extra armor (in my case exceptional full plate + normal armor skill) also helps in glancing off their bites.

Another interesting thing is that before fighting one of them I threw a spear at it and it lodged in the wound, and it seems that the spider has a priority to break my grip as it repeatedly successfully broke my grip every time(that happened ~5-6 times in a row) I grabbed the lodged spear. That points to a possible distraction for a GCS in case of soloing it.

=== Arrows ===
Don't take on quests where you need to kill elite bow-/crossbowmen! Generally, avoid flying arrows! Why? Because bow/crossbowmen have the tendency to see farther than you can. They are therefore able to fire at you from beyond your sight, making it hard to see where the arrow(s) are coming from. You may therefor end up chasing the shooter in the wrong direction, giving the shooter even MORE time to turn you into a pin-cushion. Of course, this is only the case if you manage to survive the first 3-4 arrows, because arrows are BAD for anyone but the shooter's health. Piercing hits like arrows are much more likely to damage internal organs, and while you might shrug off a moderate blunt hit to the chest a similar piercing hit could directly damage one or both lungs or your heart and instantly kill you.

One extremely useful survival tip is to immediately drop prone (with the s key) as soon as you notice you are being shot at. Prone targets move more slowly, but seem to be much harder to hit with ranged attacks than standing ones. This is also worth noting to avoid wasting ammunition on fallen targets.

Another solid solution is to get behind something as quickly as possible and try sneaking. Even when caught in the open cover as flimsy as a single tree may be sufficient to begin sneaking. Sneaking around trees can also sometimes act as a compass for determining the direction of the shooter. By checking when and where sneaking is possible, the approach vector of any given observer or close cluster of observers can be extrapolated.

Finally, since archers are generally sentient, most (besides mayors) can be killed in their sleep.

If you do accept a quest against an elite bowman or crossbowman and manage to reach melee range, immediately grapple its weapon, ideally by dropping yours and pulling the weapon out of its grasp entirely before throwing it away.

== Training yourself ==
Gaining stats ([[Attributes|strength, agility, toughness]]) helps a lot when fighting. How to best train yourself?

==== Throwing ====
To find rocks simply hit {{k|l}} and look at any rock coulored tiles some of these will be simply called by the rock name (e.g. [[limestone]]) and cannot be picked up but some will be called pebbles. Rocks are practically free ammo. When you find a tile with [[pebbles]], pick up a lot of them (there are infinite rocks), and start throwing them. You can simply throw them at the tile you are standing at. Every throw will gain you 30 points toward the skill "Throwing", and will after a while increase your stats (Strength, agility, toughness). You will need to throw 600 rocks to reach legendary Thrower (starting with no skill).

For best efficiency, drop all of your gear (including held but not worn items) and empty out your backpack near your throwing location. This is done in order to keep your inventory simple for the rock-throwing portion. Then pick up a ton of rocks by pressing {{k|g}}-{{k|a}} over and over- ideally one would pick up 600 rocks at a single time, but you will probably get bored before then. Then, mash {{k|t}}-{{k|a}}-{{k|enter}} over and over until all of your rocks are thrown back at the floor. If you are not a legendary Thrower after this, repeat. Afterwards, remember to pick up your gear and re-fill your backpack.

''Alternate way'' : It could be difficult to repeat the {{k|t}}-{{k|a}}-{{k|enter}} sequence without making mistake. So you can just alternate {{k|t}}-{{k|enter}} quickly : The first {{k|t}} will open the inventory, the second will chose the rock which is in "t" position, and {{k|enter}} will throw it. In the same fashion, when collecting rock, prefer a tile where the rock is on "b" position : If you quickly alternate {{k|g}} and {{k|a}}, sometime you will open the [a]nnouncement panel, which will slow you down. Another solution to this is to switch the ''pick up'' and ''announcements'' keys, so you can press {{k|a}} to pick up an item and {{k|a}} to pick up rock.

Thrown objects are also a cheap way to injure enemies before they reach you if you are a melee fighter.

You can also throw other stuff you find, like flies, beetles, worms, and even vomit or [[sand]]. If you have a tendency to chop off enemy limbs, you can even throw these limbs. Killing zombies with their companion's severed heads and feet is always good for a laugh. [[iron_man|Iron men]] are fun, because they leave behind a nice [[statue]] for the taking which can be thrown. Arrows and weapons seem to be particularly deadly when thrown because they deal the same damage as they would in melee, including piercing or slashing damage type, but even the most innocuous or silly items can come up with a kill.

Most thrown objects deal blunt type damage, so they will break and bruise limbs, but arrows and weapons can deal their normal damage types. This is particularly useful to consider when trying for a desperate one-shot kill on a [[Giant Cave Spider]] that's about to web you and shred you into little chunks, as piercing attacks like thrown arrows and [[spear]]s damage internal organs (making them more likely to get a one-hit kill, as an enemy can live through having the outside of their head moderately damaged but not from having the same amount of damage done to their brain) and thrown axes or swords can sever body parts and leave deep gashes (leading to massive bleeding or slit throats).

==== Bow/Crossbow-skill ====
This skill trains in the same fashion as throwing. You gain skill per shot, not per hit. This is a more expensive skill to train than throwing because you need to buy (or find) arrows/bolts, but is also a much more deadly skill. Fired projectiles do much more damage than thrown ones, and are also piercing type weapons which can do crippling damage to internal organs. The majority of thrown weapons are blunt and will do much more superficial bruising and bone-breaking damage- at best, a lucky hit will break someone's spine or damage internal organs to a small degree. Shooting arrows at enemies is fun, because it is very efficient and will destroy enemies quite easily.

Sadly, this also goes for enemy bow/crossbowmen. You will often be shot in the leg and crippled by an enemy you can't even see, who will then proceed to shoot you in the face until you die - which won't be very long afterwards unless you manage to find something to hide behind. This is somewhat avoidable - train in sneaking to avoid being seen by enemies that could otherwise perforate your skin, and get a good shield and armor to better keep arrows. (See below for both skills).

Make sure to take extra <s>meat shields</s> companions along with you if you're planning on using ranged weapons, it'll take time before you level the appropriate skill to bash things with your weapon in melee so it's imperative you stay out of the fighting till then. Drunks are particularly useful here, as they love to dive on things and collapse into a massive wrestling pile which you can take pot-shots at. Don't worry, you can't hit your guys. Not that you'd care.

Metal bolts are quite heavy and expensive, so if you wish to train in this skill it would probably be a good idea to raid an old fortress of yours first and get all the wooden/bone bolts there.

==== Wrestling ====
Since melee weapon skills are hard train because not every hit gives points towards the skill, why not train your [[wrestling]]? When you are alone with a unconscious enemy, why not break some limbs before finishing it off? Monsters often try to break your arms and legs, so having a bit of skill in wrestling will help break those locks a lot, and breaking that legendary swordsmans sword hand at the beginning of the fight will make him laughably weak. Also, training wrestling is a quicker way to better stats (strength, agility, toughness) because gain points per move instead of per "hit". Wrestling also handles dodging skill which is very handy to have.

A good way to train wrestling is to find an undead region on the map- preferably Sinister if you remember the map layout from Fortress Mode. Obtain a pack of zombie herbivores therein, preferably of small size- do not attempt this with zombie [[elephants]]. Slaughter every zombie in the vicinity of this pack of herbivores but the one that you think is the most crippled, making sure to pick one with a throat to leave alive.

Press {{k|c}} and change your combat preferences from Strike to Close Combat. This means that your default attack when you press towards an enemy to making a random wrestling move, or the continuation (joint lock, break) or (strangle) if you have a break/strangle-able area held.

Then, walk over, and grab the zombie's neck (yes, with your weapon or shield- it is quite optional to drop what you're holding) and begin strangulation by holding the direction the zombie is strangling in. You will make several strangles per second and gain approximately 15 XP (tentative measure) per strangulation. Zombies cannot die from this, so you will earn enough XP to become legendary within a few minutes.

When your character becomes tired, break off from strangling and walk it off- you become less tired by ambling about aimlessly. If you become too hungry or thirsty to continue, just run away or destroy the zombie, {{k|T}}ravel, and then repeat after moving a square and back.

This can also be done at ruins, but you run the risk of weapon-carrying enemies and especially weaponmaster quest-zombies. In an undead ruin, there are also far, far more monsters in the area compared to hunting down a pack of undead animals.

Alternatively, wait until nightfall, and wrestle a sleeping enemy. Sleeping enemies are unconscious, and cannot detect you if you sneak. The autocombat will cause your adventurer to break limbs, grab and release bits of clothing, and other nonlethal attacks. Occasionally random chance will cause a chokehold; simply step back a tile and then resume. In this manner, you can train wrestling extremely quickly without the dangers of wandering in an undead zone.

Yet another alternative is presented by fish. No harmful wrestling moves can be performed on them so cornering a carp, tigerfish, or milkfish will raise wrestling quickly, while training swimming. Avoid hippopotamus infested waters.

A final option presents itself when exploring caves, there are many weak enemies to be found here, choose one (say a ratman) and walk up to it, grabbing it perform a takedown. Before it can stand up grab its arm and try to break it, as soon as it gets up perform another takedown, continue to break all the joints in both of your <s>toy's</s> <s>victim's</s> opponent's arms and then move on to legs, finally gouge out its eyes and begin strangling it to death. This gives you plenty of wrestling exp with very little risk as the enemy will only get in one or two strikes before being taken down after which it will prioritize standing back up.

==== Swimming ====
Having no swimming skill in Adventure Mode is not a particularly good thing if you intend to go near water. Anyone with no swimming skill who falls or is pulled/pushed into water will begin to drown immediately if it is over 4/7 deep, and will also be unable to climb out of water this deep - usually resulting in instant death.

To voluntarily jump into a pond or [[river]] you have to {{k|Alt}}-move off the edge of the land. This will present you with a choice of walking out into the open space above the water (immediately and unsurprisingly followed by a one-story fall) or moving directly into the water. To get back out, {{k|Alt}}-move into the riverbank/pond edge.

As long as you have at least some Swimming skill, you will be able to move around in deeper water and will gain Swimming skill for every tile you move. Without Swimming, you will have to find depth 4 water to voluntarily paddle about in with your water wings on for your first skill points. Any deeper and you'll start to drown, any shallower and you can't swim in it. Hit {{k|m}} to set your swimming options.

Another option is to find a body of water with a ramp into it. Walk down the ramp into the water, which will cause you to start "drowning". However, you can simply walk back out after 10 turns or so to stop drowning, and you will have gained some swimming skill. Repeat until you reach novice skill. If you don't have an abandoned fortress set up for this, slopes into water can be found at ocean beaches.

All in all this makes Novice Swimming an excellent starting skill, as you can (eventually) get Legendary skill simply by swimming back and forth in two squares of water and get lots of stat points in the process. However, this is mind-numbingly dull so good luck with that. One should also keep in mind that water in cooler areas may suddenly freeze when the sun starts to go down, and thus instantly kill any creatures within. As such, it's a good idea to do your training laps somewhere warm.

It also seems that you are not able to move out of water of less than (7/7) onto the river bank. In addition, while you are swimming, you can not move to the travel map! You must first leave the water.

You can crosstrain Ambushing while Swimming to save time- if you start with no Ambushing and Novice Swimming, you will be an Accomplished or Expert Ambusher, give or take, by the time you are a Legendary Swimmer. For more on Ambushing, see below. You can also crosstrain melee skills with swimming by picking a river and swimming down it, training Ambush when it's quiet and training melee when it's not. Some rivers have very high densities of fish, giving you lots of targets to hit. They will tend to gather up, bumping into and slowing each other down ahead of you for you to kill and an adventurer will be all but invincible against non-sturgeons after a few statgains. Just remember that Hippos have the right of way.

NOTE: Water does NOT currently cleanse fire, if you are burning, jumping into a pool of water will not save you

==== Ambushing ====
The Ambusher skill is the parent to the {{k|S}}neak ability, which makes you character move more slowly and stealthily to avoid being noticed. Sneak cannot be activated if an enemy can currently see you, but you can use it immediately if you break line of sight somehow. Sneaking around will increase your Ambusher skill even if nobody is around to see you.

Unfortunately, the best way to train Ambushing is to start sneaking and just hold a direction to run, until you've run 18,000 squares (assuming you started with no skill). This takes a long time, so you may wish to train sneaking just by sneaking whenever possible while playing the game normally in order to avoid boredom.

Sneaking is particularly useful for avoiding ranged attacks, as even Novice skill allows you to get within four or five squares of an enemy before they spot you reliably. It is relatively easy at normal levels of skill to stand anywhere but right next to an enemy and not be spotted for a long time, if ever. However, standing next to sombody without them spotting you is difficult even with legendary skill. However, even if they spot you moving next to them they will only get one shot at you which is a lot better than the hundreds they would have had if you'd been blundering around in the dark too far away to even see them when they opened fire.

If you are far faster than the enemy you can sometimes swoop in, attack, and back off to 1-square distance where you are less visible. Sometimes they will spot you, but other times you can literally slice off the opponent's leg and retreat to a safe distance. This may occur because enemies can only make checks to see if you are sneaking during their own turns, and a very fast (2000+ speed) player can run in, stab them, and retreat to a safe distance before their turn comes up.

The skill also has a valuable part to play in the noble art of running away. As long as you can get out of sight of all the enemies after you at once - such as around a corner indoors, or ducking behind a tree outside - you can start sneaking and head off in another direction. If your skill is too low however the enemies might be close enough to see you as soon as you try to sneak off.

The most useful part of sneaking is undoubtedly the 'stealth throw'. While firing a missile weapon or attacking in melee will get you noticed immediately, throwing things at people will not. Stock up on dead enemies' weapons, clothing and severed body parts and you can pretend you're some gruesome comedy version of Sam Fisher. You know you want to.

==== Armor and Shield Use ====

Armor User lets you wear heavy armor without slowing down, and might control the passive block rate of armor - a very useful skill, if true, because it controls how often your shiny full plate suit will actually work.

Shield User helps the block roll you make when you are attacked. A Legendary Shield User is far, far more capable of taking on enemies, especially projectile-based weaponmasters whose bolts and arrows are blockable with a shield to a far greater degree than with one's torso, so it is worthwhile to train these two skills.

Normally, you gain 10 Shield User XP per time you block an attack with a shield, and 2 Armor User XP per time you are attacked while wearing armor. This means that to gain the 18,000 XP necessary for legendary, you must block 1800 strikes, and be attacked at least 9000 times. Naturally, this could take some time- time in which a low-skill adventurer may die from attacks by worthy opponents.

However, a useful shortcut exists- if you find a small zombie herbavore to strangle in the above wrestling training method, you can also (if it is a small and non-dangerous animal such as a zombie [[groundhog]]) {{k|s}}it down next to it (to minimize your own speed and thus get attacked more often) and hold {{k|5}} to sit down next to the animal and block its attacks over and over. This is still slow, but leagues faster than waiting to train while fighting- it also means that you are probably not in any danger assuming you picked a sufficiently pathetic type of animal.

Warnings- Make sure that you have your {{k|c}}ombat preference set to Close Combat, otherwise you may counterstrike and kill the zombie. This way, you will wrestle it during a counterstrike instead of doing something that may actually hurt it such as counterstriking with your weapon.

It is probably also preferable to start with a modicum of skill in Armor and Shield using to make sure you don't accidentally get instakilled or crippled and are good at blocking with your shield to gain XP fast. You'll also want to have non-crappy armor and a good shield or two (dual wielding shields may increase your ability to block) to maximize your ability to block and to make sure you are taking as little as possible damage, if any at all, during training.

=== Exploration ===

== Basic exploration tips ==
When traveling it’s a good idea to avoid evil areas until you’re reasonably powerful, as they tend to contain stronger enemies. Also avoid caves for this same reason, you never know when a dragon is lurking in the shadows. Remember that only human towns have shops, so don’t die of hunger wandering the dwarves mountain homes looking for that allusive Applebees. Water can be had from rivers and stagnant pools, though fast traveling (shift + t) makes thirst and hunger go away. If you are exploring caves, make sure to have some water and food with you, as some can be quite deep.

== Fortress exploration tips. ==
If you’ve abandoned a fortress in the world and you’re now adventuring, you can find that same fortress on the map. Ask townsfolk about the surroundings and eventually they’ll mention the fortress and its direction. From there you need only to follow the directions till the fortress shows up on your map.
The perils of fortress exploration
If your fortress was abandoned or destroyed there’s more than likely a reason why. Be it magma overflows, flooding, goblin sieges or perhaps digging a little too greedily and too deep there are likely to be remnants of your downfall somewhere in the remains. Wild beasts and sentient invaders alike will more than likely be slugging it out in your once grand halls. Beyond this there is the danger of forgetting what lever does what and accidentally flooding the room with lava or collapsing the entrance.

= The advantages of Fortress exploration =
Depending on how advanced your fortress was it may contain extremely rare, powerful or valuables items. Raiding fortresses is the only way to get adamantine items and wafers, as well as the only way to get artifact weapons. Beyond this, you can read the engravings on the walls in order to fill your legends list.

= Preparation =
Whatever destroyed your fortress is what is going to be squatting in it now. If a goblin siege took you down, then prepare to fight some gobbies. If the horrors of the deep raped your little dwarven ass then prepare to fight those. If they drowned then find some waterwings etc. Make sure you’re fully stocked on arrows (if you use them) as well as water and food. Leaving anything you don’t need back in the tavern in town is a good idea too, as it lets you carry more loot.

= Plumbing the Deep =

While wandering the halls of your old fortress its best to secure each floor one by one, to avoid being ambushed. Explore one entire floor then move on to the next. This isn’t a requirement but it can help in finding the best loot as well as insuring against surprise arrow buttsex. If you start to get overburdened with all the loot climb to a secure floor and dump it in a pile. You can come back for it after you’ve finished exploring. Also note that, while traps no longer work, their components (giants blades, spiked balls etc) remain just as lethal in your hands. Also note that you can pick up and throw ballista bolts.

= What to do with all your newly acquired wealth =

Not much I’m afraid. While masterwork adamantine weapons are very useful and the raw chunks of adamantine are extremely valuable there’s nothing to really buy with them. The adamantine weapons you find are the strongest in the game and shops will never sell anything above iron so once you’ve got the weapons there’s pretty much nothing more you need. This will most likely be fixed in up coming versions (perhaps paying a blacksmith to make you weapons).

=== Summary ===
*Avoid flying arrows
*Throw rocks/statues/socks/bugs/sand/coins/arms/heads/swords/arrows/kitchen sinks at enemies that still haven't reached you
*Train your stats before taking on your first quest-monster

[[Category:Guides]]
[[Category:Adventurer mode]]