https://dwarffortresswiki.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=Alkyon 2026-06-07T16:00:07Z User contributions MediaWiki 1.35.11 https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Construction&diff=121618 2010-07-16T02:25:13Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Helpful trick for preventing Dwarfs from getting stuck behind walls. */</p> <hr /> <div>== Too close to edge ==<br /> I tried to damp the brook (see project at my page) and got strange warning when tried to place a wall closer than 6 squares from map edge - '''Too close to edge'''. The Fortifications show the same warning, while other constructions - floors, stairs, ramps can be easily built.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> <br /> Also, some of buildings/furniture refuse to be placed near the edge:&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Beds, chairs, tables, coffins cannot be placed anywhere outside. When closer than 6 squares to map edge it shows &quot;too close&quot; warning, elsewhere it shows &quot;must be inside&quot;&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Armor stands, doors, floodgates, floor hatches, floor or wall grates, floor or bertical bars, cabinets, containers, trap components, supports, restraints, cages, archery targets, machine conponents - cannot be placed at outside squares closer than 6 squares to map edge - shows &quot;too close&quot; warning. Inside squares are ok anywhere.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Bridges can be placed anywhere (what about raising bridge, that transforms into a wall? experiments needed!). Roads behave the same.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Workshops, furnaces, kennels, farm plots should be at least 6 squares away from edge. Trade depot - even 10 squares!&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Statues, windows, well, siedge engines weren't tested.<br /> --[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 07:54, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :That's all as expected from previous versions. Btw, are you ''damming'' or ''damping'' your brook? ;) --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 14:45, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Damn that brook! Always meddling, always interfering! I'll get you next time... NEXT TIME! --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 16:12, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> : Damming of course. =) But damning also. &lt;br /&gt; But that feature with constructions was a bit discouraging, and the agorithm is kind of confusing here. I think it should be added somewhere to wiki page--[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 06:49, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Deconstructing floors onto a dwarf's head ==<br /> <br /> If I deconstruct a floor, it drops the stone/block onto the space below. If that space is occupied by a dwarf, will it injure them? <br /> I'm trying to devise a safe way to build large buildings without trapping dwarves or injuring them etc and this is an issue that keeps nagging me.<br /> If it's possible to squash dwarves with deconstructed floor tiles, how do I safely deconstruct them? ie. keep dorfs out from undearneath while I'm deconstructing?--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 19:29, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br /> : Seems that falling stone injures no one. I had a shaft 10 floors deep designed as garbage dump and quite traffic at landing zone. No dwarves were hurt. Stone does damage only from stone traps or catapults. &lt;br /&gt; Anyway, you can use burrows or restricted traffic areas to keep them out. [[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 10:24, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Order of construction ==<br /> <br /> If i place for example a wall 10 squares long at once, is there any order in which those sections will be build? I mean, is it always kind of &quot;west first, east second, north first, south second&quot;? Sequent builds go as LIFO, and what about internal order of construction?<br /> <br /> == Helpful trick for preventing Dwarfs from getting stuck behind walls. ==<br /> <br /> I can't remember where I learned this, either from forums, or an old discussion here on the wiki, but in 40d, I read somewhere a quick trick that keeps dwarfs from getting stuck on the wrong side of walls when building them, and I thought I might as well suggest it to see what others thought of it. For further control when making large projects when you don't want to trap a dwarf, you can also designate walls on tiles you don't want dwarfs to step on, and suspend them. Dwarfs will not walk on these walls if they can avoid it. Example: If you're creating a East-West wall, and you don't want your dwarfs to go North of it, designate your wall, and then create a second series of wall constructions directly to the right of the wall to the North of what you wanted to build and suspend them.<br /> <br /> Bad text picture:<br /> <br /> Death<br /> <br /> SSSSSSSSS<br /> <br /> (Ignore this empty space put here so that the S and Os would stop being on the same line) <br /> <br /> OOOOOOOOO<br /> <br /> Happy, not dead Dwarfs<br /> <br /> Where O is the wall you want to build your wall, and S is the row of suspended wall tiles. The Dwarfs will not step on the S tiles, or cross them, if they can prevent it and have no reason to (such as &quot;Goblin Christmas). Afterward, you can just remove the suspended designations, and your dwarfs won't build the last tile from the wrong side and trap themselves. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 02:25, 16 July 2010 (UTC)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Construction&diff=121617 2010-07-16T02:24:11Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Helpful trick for preventing Dwarfs from getting stuck behind walls. */</p> <hr /> <div>== Too close to edge ==<br /> I tried to damp the brook (see project at my page) and got strange warning when tried to place a wall closer than 6 squares from map edge - '''Too close to edge'''. The Fortifications show the same warning, while other constructions - floors, stairs, ramps can be easily built.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> <br /> Also, some of buildings/furniture refuse to be placed near the edge:&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Beds, chairs, tables, coffins cannot be placed anywhere outside. When closer than 6 squares to map edge it shows &quot;too close&quot; warning, elsewhere it shows &quot;must be inside&quot;&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Armor stands, doors, floodgates, floor hatches, floor or wall grates, floor or bertical bars, cabinets, containers, trap components, supports, restraints, cages, archery targets, machine conponents - cannot be placed at outside squares closer than 6 squares to map edge - shows &quot;too close&quot; warning. Inside squares are ok anywhere.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Bridges can be placed anywhere (what about raising bridge, that transforms into a wall? experiments needed!). Roads behave the same.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Workshops, furnaces, kennels, farm plots should be at least 6 squares away from edge. Trade depot - even 10 squares!&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Statues, windows, well, siedge engines weren't tested.<br /> --[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 07:54, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :That's all as expected from previous versions. Btw, are you ''damming'' or ''damping'' your brook? ;) --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 14:45, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Damn that brook! Always meddling, always interfering! I'll get you next time... NEXT TIME! --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 16:12, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> : Damming of course. =) But damning also. &lt;br /&gt; But that feature with constructions was a bit discouraging, and the agorithm is kind of confusing here. I think it should be added somewhere to wiki page--[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 06:49, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Deconstructing floors onto a dwarf's head ==<br /> <br /> If I deconstruct a floor, it drops the stone/block onto the space below. If that space is occupied by a dwarf, will it injure them? <br /> I'm trying to devise a safe way to build large buildings without trapping dwarves or injuring them etc and this is an issue that keeps nagging me.<br /> If it's possible to squash dwarves with deconstructed floor tiles, how do I safely deconstruct them? ie. keep dorfs out from undearneath while I'm deconstructing?--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 19:29, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br /> : Seems that falling stone injures no one. I had a shaft 10 floors deep designed as garbage dump and quite traffic at landing zone. No dwarves were hurt. Stone does damage only from stone traps or catapults. &lt;br /&gt; Anyway, you can use burrows or restricted traffic areas to keep them out. [[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 10:24, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Order of construction ==<br /> <br /> If i place for example a wall 10 squares long at once, is there any order in which those sections will be build? I mean, is it always kind of &quot;west first, east second, north first, south second&quot;? Sequent builds go as LIFO, and what about internal order of construction?<br /> <br /> == Helpful trick for preventing Dwarfs from getting stuck behind walls. ==<br /> <br /> I can't remember where I learned this, either from forums, or an old discussion here on the wiki, but in 40d, I read somewhere a quick trick that keeps dwarfs from getting stuck on the wrong side of walls when building them, and I thought I might as well suggest it to see what others thought of it. For further control when making large projects when you don't want to trap a dwarf, you can also designate walls on tiles you don't want dwarfs to step on, and suspend them. Dwarfs will not walk on these walls if they can avoid it. Example: If you're creating a East-West wall, and you don't want your dwarfs to go North of it, designate your wall, and then create a second series of wall constructions directly to the right of the wall to the North of what you wanted to build and suspend them.<br /> <br /> Bad text picture:<br /> <br /> Death<br /> <br /> SSSSSSSSS<br /> <br /> (Ignore this empty space put here so that the S and Os would stop being on the same line) <br /> <br /> OOOOOOOOO<br /> <br /> Happy, not dead Dwarfs<br /> <br /> Where O is the wall you want to build your wall, and S is the row of suspended wall tiles. The Dwarfs will not step on the S tiles, or cross them, if they can prevent it and have no reason to (such as &quot;Goblin Christmas). Afterward, you can just remove the suspended designations, and your dwarfs won't build the last tile from the wrong side and trap themselves.</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Construction&diff=121616 2010-07-16T02:23:52Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Helpful trick for preventing Dwarfs from getting stuck behind walls. */</p> <hr /> <div>== Too close to edge ==<br /> I tried to damp the brook (see project at my page) and got strange warning when tried to place a wall closer than 6 squares from map edge - '''Too close to edge'''. The Fortifications show the same warning, while other constructions - floors, stairs, ramps can be easily built.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> <br /> Also, some of buildings/furniture refuse to be placed near the edge:&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Beds, chairs, tables, coffins cannot be placed anywhere outside. When closer than 6 squares to map edge it shows &quot;too close&quot; warning, elsewhere it shows &quot;must be inside&quot;&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Armor stands, doors, floodgates, floor hatches, floor or wall grates, floor or bertical bars, cabinets, containers, trap components, supports, restraints, cages, archery targets, machine conponents - cannot be placed at outside squares closer than 6 squares to map edge - shows &quot;too close&quot; warning. Inside squares are ok anywhere.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Bridges can be placed anywhere (what about raising bridge, that transforms into a wall? experiments needed!). Roads behave the same.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Workshops, furnaces, kennels, farm plots should be at least 6 squares away from edge. Trade depot - even 10 squares!&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Statues, windows, well, siedge engines weren't tested.<br /> --[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 07:54, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :That's all as expected from previous versions. Btw, are you ''damming'' or ''damping'' your brook? ;) --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 14:45, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Damn that brook! Always meddling, always interfering! I'll get you next time... NEXT TIME! --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 16:12, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> : Damming of course. =) But damning also. &lt;br /&gt; But that feature with constructions was a bit discouraging, and the agorithm is kind of confusing here. I think it should be added somewhere to wiki page--[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 06:49, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Deconstructing floors onto a dwarf's head ==<br /> <br /> If I deconstruct a floor, it drops the stone/block onto the space below. If that space is occupied by a dwarf, will it injure them? <br /> I'm trying to devise a safe way to build large buildings without trapping dwarves or injuring them etc and this is an issue that keeps nagging me.<br /> If it's possible to squash dwarves with deconstructed floor tiles, how do I safely deconstruct them? ie. keep dorfs out from undearneath while I'm deconstructing?--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 19:29, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br /> : Seems that falling stone injures no one. I had a shaft 10 floors deep designed as garbage dump and quite traffic at landing zone. No dwarves were hurt. Stone does damage only from stone traps or catapults. &lt;br /&gt; Anyway, you can use burrows or restricted traffic areas to keep them out. [[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 10:24, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Order of construction ==<br /> <br /> If i place for example a wall 10 squares long at once, is there any order in which those sections will be build? I mean, is it always kind of &quot;west first, east second, north first, south second&quot;? Sequent builds go as LIFO, and what about internal order of construction?<br /> <br /> == Helpful trick for preventing Dwarfs from getting stuck behind walls. ==<br /> <br /> I can't remember where I learned this, either from forums, or an old discussion here on the wiki, but in 40d, I read somewhere a quick trick that keeps dwarfs from getting stuck on the wrong side of walls when building them, and I thought I might as well suggest it to see what others thought of it. For further control when making large projects when you don't want to trap a dwarf, you can also designate walls on tiles you don't want dwarfs to step on, and suspend them. Dwarfs will not walk on these walls if they can avoid it. Example: If you're creating a East-West wall, and you don't want your dwarfs to go North of it, designate your wall, and then create a second series of wall constructions directly to the right of the wall to the North of what you wanted to build and suspend them.<br /> <br /> Bad text picture:<br /> <br /> Death<br /> <br /> SSSSSSSSS<br /> (Ignore this empty space put here so that the S and Os would be on separate lines) <br /> OOOOOOOOO<br /> <br /> Happy, not dead Dwarfs<br /> <br /> Where O is the wall you want to build your wall, and S is the row of suspended wall tiles. The Dwarfs will not step on the S tiles, or cross them, if they can prevent it and have no reason to (such as &quot;Goblin Christmas). Afterward, you can just remove the suspended designations, and your dwarfs won't build the last tile from the wrong side and trap themselves.</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Construction&diff=121615 2010-07-16T02:23:15Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Helpful trick for preventing Dwarfs from getting stuck behind walls. */</p> <hr /> <div>== Too close to edge ==<br /> I tried to damp the brook (see project at my page) and got strange warning when tried to place a wall closer than 6 squares from map edge - '''Too close to edge'''. The Fortifications show the same warning, while other constructions - floors, stairs, ramps can be easily built.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> <br /> Also, some of buildings/furniture refuse to be placed near the edge:&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Beds, chairs, tables, coffins cannot be placed anywhere outside. When closer than 6 squares to map edge it shows &quot;too close&quot; warning, elsewhere it shows &quot;must be inside&quot;&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Armor stands, doors, floodgates, floor hatches, floor or wall grates, floor or bertical bars, cabinets, containers, trap components, supports, restraints, cages, archery targets, machine conponents - cannot be placed at outside squares closer than 6 squares to map edge - shows &quot;too close&quot; warning. Inside squares are ok anywhere.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Bridges can be placed anywhere (what about raising bridge, that transforms into a wall? experiments needed!). Roads behave the same.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Workshops, furnaces, kennels, farm plots should be at least 6 squares away from edge. Trade depot - even 10 squares!&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Statues, windows, well, siedge engines weren't tested.<br /> --[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 07:54, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :That's all as expected from previous versions. Btw, are you ''damming'' or ''damping'' your brook? ;) --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 14:45, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Damn that brook! Always meddling, always interfering! I'll get you next time... NEXT TIME! --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 16:12, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> : Damming of course. =) But damning also. &lt;br /&gt; But that feature with constructions was a bit discouraging, and the agorithm is kind of confusing here. I think it should be added somewhere to wiki page--[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 06:49, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Deconstructing floors onto a dwarf's head ==<br /> <br /> If I deconstruct a floor, it drops the stone/block onto the space below. If that space is occupied by a dwarf, will it injure them? <br /> I'm trying to devise a safe way to build large buildings without trapping dwarves or injuring them etc and this is an issue that keeps nagging me.<br /> If it's possible to squash dwarves with deconstructed floor tiles, how do I safely deconstruct them? ie. keep dorfs out from undearneath while I'm deconstructing?--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 19:29, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br /> : Seems that falling stone injures no one. I had a shaft 10 floors deep designed as garbage dump and quite traffic at landing zone. No dwarves were hurt. Stone does damage only from stone traps or catapults. &lt;br /&gt; Anyway, you can use burrows or restricted traffic areas to keep them out. [[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 10:24, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Order of construction ==<br /> <br /> If i place for example a wall 10 squares long at once, is there any order in which those sections will be build? I mean, is it always kind of &quot;west first, east second, north first, south second&quot;? Sequent builds go as LIFO, and what about internal order of construction?<br /> <br /> == Helpful trick for preventing Dwarfs from getting stuck behind walls. ==<br /> <br /> I can't remember where I learned this, either from forums, or an old discussion here on the wiki, but in 40d, I read somewhere a quick trick that keeps dwarfs from getting stuck on the wrong side of walls when building them, and I thought I might as well suggest it to see what others thought of it. For further control when making large projects when you don't want to trap a dwarf, you can also designate walls on tiles you don't want dwarfs to step on, and suspend them. Dwarfs will not walk on these walls if they can avoid it. Example: If you're creating a East-West wall, and you don't want your dwarfs to go North of it, designate your wall, and then create a second series of wall constructions directly to the right of the wall to the North of what you wanted to build and suspend them.<br /> <br /> Bad text picture:<br /> <br /> Death<br /> <br /> SSSSSSSSS<br /> OOOOOOOOO<br /> <br /> Happy, not dead Dwarfs<br /> <br /> Where O is the wall you want to build your wall, and S is the row of suspended wall tiles. The Dwarfs will not step on the S tiles, or cross them, if they can prevent it and have no reason to (such as &quot;Goblin Christmas). Afterward, you can just remove the suspended designations, and your dwarfs won't build the last tile from the wrong side and trap themselves.</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Construction&diff=121614 2010-07-16T02:22:50Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Helpful trick for preventing Dwarfs from getting stuck behind walls. */</p> <hr /> <div>== Too close to edge ==<br /> I tried to damp the brook (see project at my page) and got strange warning when tried to place a wall closer than 6 squares from map edge - '''Too close to edge'''. The Fortifications show the same warning, while other constructions - floors, stairs, ramps can be easily built.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> <br /> Also, some of buildings/furniture refuse to be placed near the edge:&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Beds, chairs, tables, coffins cannot be placed anywhere outside. When closer than 6 squares to map edge it shows &quot;too close&quot; warning, elsewhere it shows &quot;must be inside&quot;&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Armor stands, doors, floodgates, floor hatches, floor or wall grates, floor or bertical bars, cabinets, containers, trap components, supports, restraints, cages, archery targets, machine conponents - cannot be placed at outside squares closer than 6 squares to map edge - shows &quot;too close&quot; warning. Inside squares are ok anywhere.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Bridges can be placed anywhere (what about raising bridge, that transforms into a wall? experiments needed!). Roads behave the same.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Workshops, furnaces, kennels, farm plots should be at least 6 squares away from edge. Trade depot - even 10 squares!&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Statues, windows, well, siedge engines weren't tested.<br /> --[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 07:54, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :That's all as expected from previous versions. Btw, are you ''damming'' or ''damping'' your brook? ;) --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 14:45, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Damn that brook! Always meddling, always interfering! I'll get you next time... NEXT TIME! --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 16:12, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> : Damming of course. =) But damning also. &lt;br /&gt; But that feature with constructions was a bit discouraging, and the agorithm is kind of confusing here. I think it should be added somewhere to wiki page--[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 06:49, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Deconstructing floors onto a dwarf's head ==<br /> <br /> If I deconstruct a floor, it drops the stone/block onto the space below. If that space is occupied by a dwarf, will it injure them? <br /> I'm trying to devise a safe way to build large buildings without trapping dwarves or injuring them etc and this is an issue that keeps nagging me.<br /> If it's possible to squash dwarves with deconstructed floor tiles, how do I safely deconstruct them? ie. keep dorfs out from undearneath while I'm deconstructing?--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 19:29, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br /> : Seems that falling stone injures no one. I had a shaft 10 floors deep designed as garbage dump and quite traffic at landing zone. No dwarves were hurt. Stone does damage only from stone traps or catapults. &lt;br /&gt; Anyway, you can use burrows or restricted traffic areas to keep them out. [[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 10:24, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Order of construction ==<br /> <br /> If i place for example a wall 10 squares long at once, is there any order in which those sections will be build? I mean, is it always kind of &quot;west first, east second, north first, south second&quot;? Sequent builds go as LIFO, and what about internal order of construction?<br /> <br /> == Helpful trick for preventing Dwarfs from getting stuck behind walls. ==<br /> <br /> I can't remember where I learned this, either from forums, or an old discussion here on the wiki, but in 40d, I read somewhere a quick trick that keeps dwarfs from getting stuck on the wrong side of walls when building them, and I thought I might as well suggest it to see what others thought of it. For further control when making large projects when you don't want to trap a dwarf, you can also designate walls on tiles you don't want dwarfs to step on, and suspend them. Dwarfs will not walk on these walls if they can avoid it. Example: If you're creating a East-West wall, and you don't want your dwarfs to go North of it, designate your wall, and then create a second series of wall constructions directly to the right of the wall to the North of what you wanted to build and suspend them.<br /> <br /> Bad text picture:<br /> <br /> Death<br /> <br /> SSSSSSSSS<br /> <br /> OOOOOOOOO<br /> <br /> Happy, not dead Dwarfs<br /> <br /> Where O is the wall you want to build your wall, and S is the row of suspended wall tiles. The Dwarfs will not step on the S tiles, or cross them, if they can prevent it and have no reason to (such as &quot;Goblin Christmas). Afterward, you can just remove the suspended designations, and your dwarfs won't build the last tile from the wrong side and trap themselves.</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Construction&diff=121613 2010-07-16T02:22:38Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Helpful trick for preventing Dwarfs from getting stuck behind walls. */ new section</p> <hr /> <div>== Too close to edge ==<br /> I tried to damp the brook (see project at my page) and got strange warning when tried to place a wall closer than 6 squares from map edge - '''Too close to edge'''. The Fortifications show the same warning, while other constructions - floors, stairs, ramps can be easily built.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> <br /> Also, some of buildings/furniture refuse to be placed near the edge:&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Beds, chairs, tables, coffins cannot be placed anywhere outside. When closer than 6 squares to map edge it shows &quot;too close&quot; warning, elsewhere it shows &quot;must be inside&quot;&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Armor stands, doors, floodgates, floor hatches, floor or wall grates, floor or bertical bars, cabinets, containers, trap components, supports, restraints, cages, archery targets, machine conponents - cannot be placed at outside squares closer than 6 squares to map edge - shows &quot;too close&quot; warning. Inside squares are ok anywhere.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Bridges can be placed anywhere (what about raising bridge, that transforms into a wall? experiments needed!). Roads behave the same.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Workshops, furnaces, kennels, farm plots should be at least 6 squares away from edge. Trade depot - even 10 squares!&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Statues, windows, well, siedge engines weren't tested.<br /> --[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 07:54, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :That's all as expected from previous versions. Btw, are you ''damming'' or ''damping'' your brook? ;) --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 14:45, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Damn that brook! Always meddling, always interfering! I'll get you next time... NEXT TIME! --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 16:12, 19 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> : Damming of course. =) But damning also. &lt;br /&gt; But that feature with constructions was a bit discouraging, and the agorithm is kind of confusing here. I think it should be added somewhere to wiki page--[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 06:49, 20 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Deconstructing floors onto a dwarf's head ==<br /> <br /> If I deconstruct a floor, it drops the stone/block onto the space below. If that space is occupied by a dwarf, will it injure them? <br /> I'm trying to devise a safe way to build large buildings without trapping dwarves or injuring them etc and this is an issue that keeps nagging me.<br /> If it's possible to squash dwarves with deconstructed floor tiles, how do I safely deconstruct them? ie. keep dorfs out from undearneath while I'm deconstructing?--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 19:29, 30 June 2010 (UTC)<br /> : Seems that falling stone injures no one. I had a shaft 10 floors deep designed as garbage dump and quite traffic at landing zone. No dwarves were hurt. Stone does damage only from stone traps or catapults. &lt;br /&gt; Anyway, you can use burrows or restricted traffic areas to keep them out. [[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 10:24, 1 July 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Order of construction ==<br /> <br /> If i place for example a wall 10 squares long at once, is there any order in which those sections will be build? I mean, is it always kind of &quot;west first, east second, north first, south second&quot;? Sequent builds go as LIFO, and what about internal order of construction?<br /> <br /> == Helpful trick for preventing Dwarfs from getting stuck behind walls. ==<br /> <br /> I can't remember where I learned this, either from forums, or an old discussion here on the wiki, but in 40d, I read somewhere a quick trick that keeps dwarfs from getting stuck on the wrong side of walls when building them, and I thought I might as well suggest it to see what others thought of it. For further control when making large projects when you don't want to trap a dwarf, you can also designate walls on tiles you don't want dwarfs to step on, and suspend them. Dwarfs will not walk on these walls if they can avoid it. Example: If you're creating a East-West wall, and you don't want your dwarfs to go North of it, designate your wall, and then create a second series of wall constructions directly to the right of the wall to the North of what you wanted to build and suspend them.<br /> <br /> Bad text picture:<br /> <br /> Death<br /> <br /> SSSSSSSSS<br /> OOOOOOOOO<br /> <br /> Happy, not dead Dwarfs<br /> <br /> Where O is the wall you want to build your wall, and S is the row of suspended wall tiles. The Dwarfs will not step on the S tiles, or cross them, if they can prevent it and have no reason to (such as &quot;Goblin Christmas). Afterward, you can just remove the suspended designations, and your dwarfs won't build the last tile from the wrong side and trap themselves.</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Design_strategies&diff=81166 2010-04-03T18:32:19Z

<p>Alkyon: </p> <hr /> <div>Maybe just have a selection of tips for this page, instead of detailed strategies, as the individual features of each map now renders a long-term design strategy ( that isn't modular, at the least ) useless.<br /> <br /> A couple've tips could be: Don't plan too far ahead, design modularly if you want it to look nice, scout out map features before digging too far in etc etc.<br /> --[[User:Pathos|Pathos]] 15:25, 3 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Don't try to build big rooms. Most likely, there will be a metal ore vein in there that ruins everything.<br /> :Or accept the fact that ore veins will run through your rooms - its not like there's a shortage of ore anymore. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:26, 3 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> :I second Squirrelloid's opinion. Might as well dig through it, smooth&amp;engrave it and enjoy the fact that your room is more valuable and probably, in &quot;real&quot; life has some pretty kick-ass looking veins in it.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 18:32, 3 April 2010 (UTC)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Mechanic&diff=78190 2010-04-02T15:12:41Z

<p>Alkyon: </p> <hr /> <div>Unlike in 40d, Mechanics DO create legendary mechanism artifacts when they go into a strange mood in DF2010. My mechanic just created a legendary bauxite mechanism with lignite engravings on it. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 07:23, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Uh... they did that in 40d too. I have about 4 in various games I could dig up, most of which ended up being connected to levers in noble death traps to help placate them until i decided to kill them. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:14, 2 April 2010 (UTC<br /> ::Really? I remember that mechanics were one of the few professions that didn't create artifacts. Upon second look, mechanic was moodable in 40d according to the wiki. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 15:12, 2 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> :Seconded, Mechanics are a known moodable labor.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 14:47, 2 April 2010 (UTC)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Mechanic&diff=78005 2010-04-02T07:23:19Z

<p>Alkyon: Mechanics create legendary artifacts now!</p> <hr /> <div>Unlike in 40d, Mechanics DO create legendary mechanism artifacts when they go into a strange mood in DF2010. My mechanic just created a legendary bauxite mechanism with lignite engravings on it. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 07:23, 2 April 2010 (UTC)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=v0.31_Talk:Caverns&diff=77901 2010-04-02T03:38:22Z

<p>Alkyon: </p> <hr /> <div>I'm not sure 'When should I move in' is a relevant topic for this page. It goes from being informative to prescriptive. As this is not a guide page, it should probably avoid recommendations and focus on facts about Caverns. (Relevantly, the answer to 'when should i move in' may well be never, based on considerations entirely unconnected to the dangers of the cavern). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:58, 1 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Well, it needed something, and I'm not the best writer in the world, so you're right. Someone should also take a picture of a cavern for when the images work again, I might if no-one else does. --[[User:Tarran|Tarran]]<br /> ::I haven't found ruins. Instead I used an adamantium pillar to mine through a magma sea layer, and found glowing pits with about eleventy-billion demons in them. Good to see that while going deep is GAME OVER, there are dozens of different ways to die.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 03:38, 2 April 2010 (UTC)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Trading&diff=58813 2009-11-28T19:35:47Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Self-Deconstructing Wagon? */</p> <hr /> <div>{{Archive|<br /> # The [[Talk:Trading/Talk Caravan|talk page]] from Caravan, which wasn't merged properly at the time.<br /> # The [[Talk:Trading/archive1|first archive]] of Talk:Trading.<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Dead Wagons on Depot Deconstruct Exploit ==<br /> <br /> You can take every item from a caravan by deconstructing a depot while the caravan is in it. The items aren't marked as stolen if you do this. But in the units screen, any wagons that were in the depot will appear as deceased. It's because the trader's wagon is a creature. Specifically, it's the center tile of the wagon. That's why the Depot Access view only shows where the center tile of the &quot;wagon&quot; can get to. I'd kind of like to point this out here, or perhaps on the page specifically about wagons, to identify the difference between the trade wagons and your starting wagon, which is a building.<br /> <br /> Also, Dwarves still won't siege you, and this particular exploit can make the game ridiculously easy if you only deconstruct on the Dwarven caravan.--Kydo 02:48, 25 September 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :That exploit is already discussed in this article. And the distinction between embark wagons and trade wagons has (also) already been made clear on the [[wagon]] page (which the key word most users would Search for, I'd think - and where I'd think we should be having this discussion?) If you want to put a footnote in that article, so long as it isn't adding more confusion than clarification (that is, it doesn't devolve into pointless detail and supposition), more info can't be a bad thing.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 15:03, 24 September 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Well, the wagon article seems to focus almost exclusively with the starting wagon, and only mentions the trade wagons once. In fact, reading over it again, it only mentions trade ''caravans''. Nothing about the wagons therein, or the distinction. Still, I agree with you that this is more about the wagons than about that exploit, and the conversation should be over there, not here.--Kydo 02:48, 25 September 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Culling on mandates ==<br /> <br /> what's that? in the trade screen? me no be native speaker...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:56, 20 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :I think it means that it will hide things that are not allowed to be traded: &quot;Mayor has put bans on certain exports&quot;. But I don't know if it hides an entire bin if one item in it is banned. [[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 14:29, 27 February 2008 (EST)<br /> ::I am quite sure that &quot;culling on mandates: on&quot; hides all bins containing items which have active Noble Export Bans. [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]] 09:16, 13 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::I made a &quot;trading color cues&quot; subsection. This should cover relevant info about mandates and other things. --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:07, 29 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Trading flowchart ==<br /> {{:Trading/Flowchart}}<br /> Given a number of questions on the forums, it may be a good idea to put together a flowchart of the steps involved in trading. I will draft something up here (at least partially so I can safely screw up my first attempt on this wiki)<br /> <br /> Tasks are sequential top-to-bottom, but can be done in parallel left-to-right<br /> {|cellpadding=&quot;2&quot; border=&quot;1&quot; width=400|<br /> |-<br /> | colspan=2 rowspan=2| Make or obtain goods to trade || Build Depot ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}})<br /> |-<br /> | Ensure Depot is accessible ({{K|D}})<br /> Check green area reaches edge of map<br /> |-<br /> | colspan=3 | Wait until a caravan arrives on the map<br /> &quot;A--- caravan from --- has arrived.&quot;<br /> |-<br /> | Set goods to be traded ({{K|q}} - {{K|g}}) || Request a trader ({{K|q}} - {{K|r}}) || Wait for caravan to reach the depot<br /> &quot;Merchants have arrived and are unloading their goods&quot;<br /> |-<br /> | Wait for goods to be hauled || Wait for the trader to finish their other tasks and go to the depot || Wait for the rest of the caravan to reach the depot and be unloaded <br /> |-<br /> | colspan=3 | Begin actual trading ({{K|q}} - {{K|t}})<br /> |}<br /> <br /> Hmm. Is there a better way to show this? It may not help much as is... [[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]]<br /> :Ask and ye shall receive (see right, editable at [[Trading/Flowchart]]). --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 08:46, 6 May 2008 (EDT) <br /> '''Re: Adeptable's changes'''&lt;br&gt;I don't think the third branch is neccesary. For one, it makes it seem too wide, and secondary it implies that turning off the trader's labours ''all the time'' means that trading will happen faster - almost as if it will make merchants arrive more often. --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 23:36, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> :I'd add retrieving empty bins to the bottom so that you don't end up with empty bins sitting at the depot. When stockpiles are crowded you'll need them to deal with the sudden influx of goods. (Never give away bins!) I bow to your wiki-fu, I simply could not edit your flowchart... --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:15, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Yeah, it's a bit tricky I guess. It's all in the colspan :p. But, ahhh, how do you retreive them? I thought dwarves would automatically fetch empty bins from the depot if they needed them, just like fetching them from any other location. --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 18:31, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br /> :::Ack, somehow didn't see this. Empty bins will still show up as Trading in the bring goods to depot menu, unmark them and your dwarves will haul them back to where they're needed. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 02:13, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br /> ::::Surely the bins' &quot;Trading&quot; status disappears after the Trader leaves? I mean, I've never noticed them as still being marked for &quot;Trading&quot; when the next caravan arrives next season. --[[User:Juckto|juckto]] 22:08, 23 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> &lt;br clear=&quot;all&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> == How many wagons? ==<br /> <br /> I don't think I've ever seen more than 8 wagons in a given caravan. Is that the limit? Has anyone ever seen more than 8?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:01, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :I've never seen more than two at a time before flooding my fortress. I didn't realize they could send more than two at a time. Kydo 14:20, 24 September 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Mass selection of goods to be moved ==<br /> <br /> Question: Is there a way to designate multiple goods in one selection to be brought to the depot? <br /> <br /> I'm getting really tired of indivually selecting goods to be moved to the depot when I have massive amounts of crafts, food, etc. So is anyone familiar with ways to select multiple goods at once? Maybe a &quot;start&quot; and &quot;end&quot; tags (for lack of a better name) and every good caught inbetween is designated to be moved to the depot? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 14:47 10 November 2008 (PST)<br /> <br /> :Nope. About the best you can do is use the select (search) menu to get all the ones of the type you want, then enter-down-enter-down. You can flag about 200 a minute this way, though.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:17, 10 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::That's what I was doing previously. Are there any plans for a &quot;mass selector&quot; to be introduced? -- [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 16:50 10 November 2008 (PST)<br /> <br /> :::Not that I know of. Make a feature request on the [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php forums].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 10 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::::AFAIK, there is no good way to do this from the trade screen, which is why it's important to set up custom stockpiles and have plenty of bins. Man, I really wish you could make bins out of stone.<br /> :::::Auto Hotkey thingy. Heard it works wonders. Never tried it though.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:19, 10 April 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Merchant moods ==<br /> <br /> My fortress hadn't been doing too well, but I didn't know it was so bad it could affect merchants... and their pack animals. As the last merchant was about to leave the map, he suddenly went berserk and was cut down by his bodyguard, who then fled the scene. Shortly thereafter, I recieved a message that the donkey had been stricken by melacholy. Has anyone else had this happen?<br /> <br /> :They usually eventually go nuts if they can't leave for some reason. Never heard of something like what you're describing.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:24, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Just got something close happening. They entered the map, and were chased off the map by goblins then the merchant went melancholy and a pack mule went stark raving mad. The only difference here is that one of them was actually killed before they left the map, so it could be he was unhappy over that. But still surprised that the merchants can get these kinds of moods and even weirder that the animals can... [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 10:38, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::They also immediately go crazy if they see a dwarf that's gone berserk. Or at least seem to do so. (Had a merchant go crazy immediately upon entering a map near a failed-mood berserk dwarf who i hadn't bothered to deal with because he had run away from where i was working.) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:03, 5 November 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == No more dwarven caravan ==<br /> <br /> So. The Dwarven caravan has not come in the past two years. I think, though I am not sure, that this corresponds with when I met the requirements for the Incoming King, though he has not yet seen fit to arrive. I believe I also capped the population sometime in there, but I think it was after the first year of no caravan. I don't recall in any way molesting previous caravans. I needs me some dolomite and steel bars, anyone know what's going on here? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 02:10, 13 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :So. I upper the population cap to encourage some immigration, and after a few seasons, the King showed up with his retinue and the Hammerer, who had apparently died at some point. I re-capped the population, and the caravan came next autumn. Was it the incoming king or the dead hammerer? Did the population cap interfere with the king's arrival? The mystery remains. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 14:59, 2 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::I'm on year 13 of my most recent fortress and the Dwarven caravan declined to show up this year, after 12 years of no problem. I still don't meet the requirements for the Incoming King. In a previous game I did meet those requirements, and that did not interfere with the caravan (though the liason stopped letting me place orders once the king arrived). Anyway, I don't think my current fort has anything in common with what you've described, other than a mysteriously missing caravan after not damaging previous ones. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 00:52, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br /> :::It appears my problem was caused by a brief goblin siege that occurred when the caravan was supposed to be showing up. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:48, 26 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> == A query from the deleted page Talk:Stealing ==<br /> <br /> I've read many times that the traders count their total losses/profits when they leave the edge of the map, so as to make stealing of any sort impossible (to get away with, anyhow). Does this include what the guards are carrying (if they get killed or even just shoot off some bolts)? Or is the &quot;total profit&quot; concept true at all? --[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:07, 27 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :I'm pretty sure that the total profit concept is how it works. The value of everything the traders enter with is subtracted from the value of everything the traders leave with to calculate profit. There's probably something in there to account for the death of (a) trader(s). --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 21:42, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::is this still true?&lt;br&gt;i was unwittingly stealing everything off the merchants via the stocks screen. i dont have any steel yet, as i've not found any flux or iron ore. but every now and again, i noticed i had a bunch of steel/iron weapons/bolts/armo(u)r, so designated it all for melting, etc, etc.. eventually, i chose to 'dump' everything to see where they were getting it, and they were stripping the merchants of all their goods/clothes/everything metal xD will they come and siege me anytime soon? my army's not ready yet! i do give good profit margins (20%+), but i'm sure the stuff i nick is much more valuable :/ --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]]<br /> <br /> :::I've noticed that starving dwarves appear to be happy to steal food from merchants. I'm running 0.28.181.40d, and, being new to this, almost experienced [[fun]] due to lack of food. The dwarven caravan arrived in the nick of time, and rather to my surprise once they got close a clump of dwarves started hobbling their way over to the caravan. Once they got to it they started following it back to the depot (at full speed, not sure why), and then made off with a plump helmet each once the merchants started unpacking. Obviously food is rather less valuable than steel, but theoretically this too could tip the merchants into loss if you didn't buy much, assuming that profit/loss accounting is done this way. --[[User:Jenesis|Jenesis]] 19:01, 17 April 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Wagon movement ==<br /> <br /> I'm pretty sure that wagons cannot move diagonally. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:08, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> <br /> They can, it just requires 7 tiles instead of 3 --[[User:Nightwind|Nightwind]] 04:08, 1 May 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Arrival dates ==<br /> <br /> Out of curiosity, has anybody given a closer look at the exact arrival dates of trade caravans? Do they always arrive at a fixed time, or does it hover inside a certain period during the month or season? --[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 22:11, 29 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :I've kept track over about 5 years. The Dwarf caravans seem to arrive around the 15th or 16th of Limestone and leave about the same time in Sandstone. The Human caravans seem to arrive around the 12th to 14th of Hematite and leave in Malachite. I don't have any data yet for the Elves. Once I get some more data points, I'll edit the wiki to add this info. --[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 17:11, 17 April 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: Here I've got elves arriving the 11th of Granite. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:14, 3 May 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::16th of hematite for humans here. 40d. Elves 11th too --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 10:53, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::They're supposed to leave one month to the day after they arrive - that's the same day number, next month. For me, I've seen dwarf caravans arrive as early as the 10th, and as late as the 17th (but usually toward the first part of that, 10-12th). (Usually right after the first dogs whelp, but that's from the Growers Almanac.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:24, 31 May 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Wagons and magma==<br /> A dwarven trade caravan passing over a magma channel on its way to my trade depot recently caught fire. Naturally, this caused lots of [[fun]], but I'm a bit perplexed by it. There was nothing flammable on the bridge - in fact, the magma beneath was 1/7 deep at best - but it looks like the wagons just spontaneously combusted as they passed over the stream. Can anyone confirm that it was the magma that caused this, or were the children just playing with matches again? [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 08:07, 14 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> <br /> == Elven Caravan Wood Logs ==<br /> I noticed there was a &quot;verify&quot; next to &quot;carries more wood the less trees you cut down&quot; under the Elven Caravans and am not sure if it is right or not. Can anyone confirm this? I have observed the stock of wood brought by the elves in two games as increasing significantly with time. In one of the games wood was scarce, in the other wood was plentiful but to dangerous to cut down and in both I would consistently buy out all of the wood logs from every caravan. So I had theorized the increase in the number of logs brought was related to demand conveyed by buying out the stock repeatedly for years. However, not cutting down trees and buying out all the wood logs would tend to go hand in hand. Also, to really see a significant increase in a specific item I would need to buy out all the wood stock from a caravan for close several years. It is possible that both the demand and level of &quot;production&quot; of wood determine how much is brought. If either is true for wood, then it might be true for other items that Elves bring. Also, did I format this thing right? --[[User:Pencilinhand|PencilinHand]] 8:47, 23 January 2009 (EST)<br /> :In my experience it's something more like - the more you have in stock, the less they bring. I was buying out all logs from them, and they brought ~120 logsevery year, and I chopped a lot of trees, but used them fast. Then I built some wooden machinery (axles, windmills), my stocks always showed about 100 logs in them after that, and elves began to bring only about 5 logs...--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:48, 23 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::I did a series of experiments over a period of 3 years in my current fort and can confirm that Dorten is right and my previously stated theories are wrong. A forts stockpile of wood appears to be the biggest factor in determining how much wood is brought by the elven caravans. When I had a stockpile of 51 wood logs the elves brought no wood, when I had a stockpile of 0 wood logs they brought 43 wood logs, similar results were observed regardless of if I was cutting down trees during the year(though I did not test any clear cuts). The other caravans may have brought more wood as well, but further testing is needed before I am confident in that statement, as it may have been caused by offerings/gifts. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 17:10, 25 January 2009 (EST)<br /> :::I've done some of my own testing and have found that '''all''' caravans follow this behavior - the less wood you have, the more caravans will bring. The trick is that with the human and dwarven caravans, the excess can be limited or eliminated outright if you've requested them to bring enough specific goods to reach their weight limit - if you go a year without making any requests, they'll bring tons of wood logs. An interesting way of manipulating this further is to simply '''forbid''' all of the logs in your fortress before the caravan arrives - doing this, I've made the elves bring nothing but wood when they would otherwise bring their typical goods (tested with save backups as well). Incidentally, actually requesting wood logs via the liaison doesn't really help much, since a maxed out request only makes them bring '''4''' logs of each type (which is near useless with the dwarves). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 05:47, 15 September 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Trade Depot Color==<br /> I know this doesn't have anything to do with trading, but it is interesting. Since Trade Depots are made out of 3 stones (or logs etc etc), if you combine stones of various colors, what do you get? I tried combining Orthoclase (yellow), Kimberlite (blue) and Olivine (green), and I got a green depot. Then I tried Gabbro (black) and 2 Orthoclase, and the depot was yellow. Kimberlite, Petrified Wood (red) and Olivine, the depot was green. Does anyone know how the color is selected?<br /> <br /> :As far as I understand is the last stone for the color (or was it the first one?) --[[User:NobbZ|NobbZ]] 10:50, 23 February 2009 (EST)<br /> ::I'll have to fire up the game again when I get home, but I could have sworn that I've occasionally wound up with two-tone depots when I've used different stones. The main part was one color while the corners were another. But maybe I'm just imagining things. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:49, 5 March 2009 (EST)<br /> :::I just built a trade depot out of 3 Orthoclase (yellow) and it turned out where about half of it was yellow and half was white. Not like a two tone either, just blotches of yellow and blotches of white... [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 04:11, 7 August 2009 (UTC)<br /> ::::Sounds like that might be a screen (or eye) problem. [[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 16:43, 19 August 2009<br /> :::::No... It's nothing like that. It's where different &quot;block&quot; of the Trade Depot appeared different colors. So, like some parts would have yellow blocks in it, where other parts would have white blocks. So... like...<br /> <br /> WWWYW&lt;br&gt;<br /> WWYYY&lt;br&gt;<br /> WWWYY&lt;br&gt;<br /> WWWWY&lt;br&gt;<br /> <br /> But not exactly that, I can't remember the exact design of it. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 01:05, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == stealing animals ==<br /> <br /> One of the objects I happened to cheat the game of was a nickel cage with a dog in it. on the units page, the dog was still shown to belong to the traders. Is there any way to change this? (or at least any [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fun fun] to be had from this?)<br /> <br /> : What happens when you [[kennel|train]] it into a war dog? or, for that matter, does the game recognize it as an animal that can be [[kennel|tamed]]? --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 15:15, 25 March 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Buggy behavior with sieges==<br /> <br /> In my current game the dwarven caravan arrived, followed immediately by a goblin siege. I crushed the siege but a couple caravan guards and a pack animal were killed. A handful of merchants, guards and animals got stuck at the edge of the map, and I never got to trade, even though all the wagons made it safely into the depot. I was however able to make the usual arrangements with the liason. Then I got the message that the caravan was leaving but they didn't actually go. Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Any way to fix it? --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 23:43, 29 March 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :In case something like this happens to anyone else, I found that digging out the area under the stuck merchants and collapsing it fixed the problem. The survivors started moving off the map and the wagons immediately pulled out of the depot. --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 05:20, 31 March 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Limited Caravan Accessiblity ==<br /> <br /> Contrary to the comments in the section on wagons, I do not believe you can force a caravan to enter the map at a specific point. Running 0.28.181.40d, I build a wall so that there is only one entrance to the map that is accessible to the depot. Humans arrived from another point of the map, and I got the message &quot;Their wagons have bypassed your inaccessible site.&quot; I do see 'Depot accessible' on D. --[[User:Sfogarty|Sfogarty]] 05:49, 10 April 2009 (UTC)<br /> :As for my experience, game first chooses the side of the map for traders, and then checks if wagons can reach depot. I had to chop trees yearly to keep fortress accessible before I've build a road. However, it can be not side but embarking tile that is chosen before accessibility check, but I haven't done any experiments to validate if it is the case. --[[User:Denspb|Denspb]] 10:19, 10 April 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == lazy dwarves ==<br /> <br /> I just had a Human Caravan.<br /> <br /> None of my dwarves did anything. Not a single mug or gem or meal was moved to the depot. I had to disable my broker's labours- ALL of his labours- to get him to speak with the diplomat following him about like a lost puppy.<br /> <br /> Now, I see a 'priority' setting function in the Manager. Would this be practical or even usable to set Depot requests high?<br /> <br /> == Attacked caravan slowed down - bug? ==<br /> <br /> All right, I was in my third or so year. Autumn came and the dwarven caravan showed up - along with a Goblin ambush. Naturally the two fought in front of my fortress (with some strategic ranged support from my marksdwarves). Of the three wagons, one was destroyed (phat lewt!). Thing is, once the Goblins were taken out of the pricture one of the wagons moved *very* slowly - slow enough, in fact, that it didn't even get into the trading depot before I got the message that the caravan was going to leave soon. The wagon froze at the edge of the depot, two steps shy of getting into position, and then they both just sat there - I never even got the option to trade with them :-/ Has anyone else encountered a similar issue or did my game just have a bout of cranial flatulence?<br /> <br /> : I have seen my caravan ambushed by goblins (killing the ambush) and then retreat... No trade this season. I guess this kind of behaviour should go in the main page [[User:MathFox|MathFox]] 17:43, 25 April 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::It seems that when you request a large amount of heavy (literally) goods, the wagon (which actually counts as a creature that hauls items) might become encumbered and move very slowly. It might even be unable to reach the trade depot before the merchants leave, especially if the map forces it to move along a long path between trees. I might wrong, this needs testing. [[User:Mateusz|Mateusz]] 16:19, 5 September 2009 (UTC)<br /> ::''(Moved from [[bug]] main article by --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:11, 5 September 2009 (UTC))''<br /> <br /> == requested items ==<br /> <br /> Any time I request specific items... the next caravan turns up with exactly 1 of each item and nothing else.<br /> <br /> So I get caravans turning up with a total of say 6 items.<br /> <br /> Any suggestions?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]]<br /> :Not sure. Maybe it depends on the actual availability of said items? In one game where I played in a pretty barren area and I asked my dwarven traders to bring lots of wood and they brought like 60 something of it the next season. When asking for meat, they bring plenty of it as well. What are you trying to request though? I requested some flux stone once and only got 6 flux stone rocks.--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 12:35, 29 May 2009 (UTC)<br /> ::example: various types of leather - I got 1 of some of the types.<br /> ::I think maybe I didn't send out enough value last time and I may have just made the same mistake. I'm trying too hard to get &quot;value&quot;.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:32, 30 May 2009 (UTC)<br /> :::I also suspect it has to do with the avialability at the mountainhome - i get huge loads of requested wood, meat and specific types of leather, but bit coal, lignite, pig iron, steel bars and charcoal always only come in small amounts like, 6, though still more than when i do not request them (zero :( ) --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 20:20, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> ::::It is of course also limited by the total capacity of the caravan. In the first two years its easy to &quot;push out&quot; all the crap they normally bring with requests. Later they will bring everything, and more of, what you request, but still not necessarily &quot;much&quot;.. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 15:23, 23 August 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Merchant turned friendly ==<br /> Bug or feature? A macedwarf that came with the caravan lagged a bit behind when leaving and stopped 2 tiles from the border. When i checked with 'u' he had turned friendly. Now he's standing there guarding.. --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 20:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> :This happens whenever the merchants have all left and soldiers are left over. He will leave eventually. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 15:19, 23 August 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Forbidden Items? ==<br /> <br /> I've never had green glass items refused by Elves, on my current or any other map. My main export to everyone is green glass goblets on any map that supports cheap glass. I don't need wood for them but then, I didn't think the trading system(or the elves, for that matter) was sophisticated enough to tell. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Error ==<br /> I just had my first time ever true crash of DF - right on arrival of human caravan i got a message smth like &quot;fatal error: nemesis failed to load unit&quot;. What does this mean and how do i find out if this is a known bug and where do i report it if not? --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 12:27, 3 August 2009 (UTC)<br /> :Okay, google was my friend. For some odd reason all the files accompanying world.sav were gone, that causes this error. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 16:09, 3 August 2009 (UTC)<br /> ::C - you're on the forums - you haven't ever heard of this? See [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=34936.0| Nemesis Errour]--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:51, 3 August 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Self-Deconstructing Wagon? ==<br /> <br /> I had a human caravan enter my map, and right where they entered was a group of bonobos. I was accustomed to the caravans plowing right through animals with no consequences, but this time, the wagon exploded as it touched the bonobo. The wagon was nowhere to be seen afterward, just all the trade goods it was carrying (in addition to one kapok log, which I suspect the wagon was built from). The rest of the caravan promptly ran away. The only thing I had built there was a rock block road. Has anyone else had anything like this happen, and if so, under what circumstances? --[[User:King of the Internet|King of the Internet]] 00:35, 11 August 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :That happens when a wagon is killed, all of the goods fly out, the Bonobo probably attacked it, and the rest of the traders always run away if a caravan is destroyed.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 01:42, 11 August 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I had this happen to me too. A caravan arrive just as a bunch of Orcs did. I wasn't watching, but they must have toasted one wagon and the caravan fled off the map. It was frustrating for two reasons. First, being on the very edge of the map, the clean up was terrible, and second, all the items dropped were marked as stolen.[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 15:54, 11 August 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :So should it be noted on the page that normally-passive animals can attack the caravan, sending everyone back home? --[[User:King of the Internet|King of the Internet]] 21:22, 15 August 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Indeed, I had a similar problem happen to me. My game paused and zoomed towards a goblin snatcher, but I couldn't find the little guy. A few frames later, he was standing in the middle of the former wagon as the horses ran off, leaving the trade goods behind for me to snag. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 19:35, 28 November 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == D hotkey removed in .40d? ==<br /> <br /> I tried to see which paths the caravan could take using D: nothing came up, and it's not on the hotkey menu.<br /> <br /> Edit: Nevermind, it's back. Don't know where it went. @_@<br /> : You need a trade depot so you can use the command. As soon as you'll order to build a trade depot, you can use it. It'll be all red, until the trade depot is constructed. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 12:43, 28 September 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Offering to the Elves ==<br /> <br /> In an attempt to piss off the Elves, I offered them a piece of raw clear glass and they happily accepted it. Last I checked, they dislike clear glass because of the pearlash used in its construction. Attempting to '''trade''' them tower-cap logs, however, was successful in getting them angry, as was simply seizing their 30 bins of cloth. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:11, 19 October 2009 (UTC)<br /> :Just now, I attempted to offer them a tower-cap log and they were annoyed as a result. Exactly why they accepted a piece of raw clear glass last time is beyond me... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:56, 21 October 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Weird Bug ==<br /> <br /> For some reason goblets won`t show up in the trade screen. I have some 200 very close to the Depot but they won´t show. I tried forbidding/claiming them to no avail, i aslo tried to make a goblet dump in the depot but that didn´t work either. Anyone else had this happen?<br /> : Do any of your nobles like goblets? One of them may have [[Mandate#Export Bans|forbidden goblets from being exported]]. See [[Trading#Move Goods to/from Depot]] and try {{k|m}} in the item selection screen. --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 13:35, 11 November 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Constructed Ramps ==<br /> <br /> It seems that wagons cannot pass over constructed ramps. Could someone add that to the page? [[Special:Contributions/76.184.150.59|76.184.150.59]] 16:47, 21 November 2009 (UTC)<br /> :They can definitely travel '''along''' constructed ramps. Oddly, they can even travel along constructed ramps that aren't braced by walls on the proper side. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:01, 21 November 2009 (UTC)<br /> ::One of my fortresses has its entrance outdoors, only accessible by constructed ramps. Wagons use them all the time. I also tried building a ramp in the middle of the wagon path in another fortress (not that such a ramp could ever be useful) and it still shows as accessible. Are you sure you're using ramps correctly? (They have to be next to natural or constructed walls, not just floors on the next level.) --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 20:24, 21 November 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> <br /> == No Dwarven Caravans? ==<br /> <br /> I have noticed that if you don't have any elves or human civs near that you don't get any caravans from them, but does the same apply to dwarven civs? My fortress so far has had no contact with any race, including dwarven caravans, after 2 years. This is a two fold problem, because I don't get caravans or immigrants because no caravan ever reports my now crazy wealth. Is this normal or a bug? [[Special:Contributions/194.74.22.170|194.74.22.170]] 22:13, 23 November 2009 (UTC)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Lignite&diff=48207 2009-03-29T18:53:11Z

<p>Alkyon: </p> <hr /> <div>Why would anyone make coke at magma smelter? --wavecutter<br /> ::Steel. --Nillions<br /> :::Steel, aye. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:48, 29 March 2009 (UTC)<br /> ::Or, if you're like me, to make a Coke Magma Cistern. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 18:53, 29 March 2009 (UTC)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Magma_mist&diff=27140 2009-02-12T22:33:20Z

<p>Alkyon: </p> <hr /> <div>Is it seriously called magma mist or did the author just assume that that was the name? Honestly, if nothing is known about it there shouldn't be an article.<br /> <br /> --[[User:JPolito|JPolito]] 02:06, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br /> :It is, in fact, called magma mist, though I doubt there's much more information about it than listed on this page. I've only seen it when a &quot;cave in&quot; was reported within a magma vent; it's probably generated by turbulence in the same way that normal, water mist is created. This gives me an interesting idea, however.. Perhaps pumping magma up to fall back down through a grate may create a defensive 'wall' of scalding magma mist. This requires testing. ..Then again, having a magmafall in front of your doorway would probably be more than enough to deter any attackers to begin with, but it's an idea. --[[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 04:20, 18 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::Funny note--I had actually planned on doing that in a fort (making a wall of magma), never got around to it for some reason. But you'd certainly need a way to turn it off, and if magma splashes, you would be incredibly screwed if you even made one mistake...plus, you'd need, what, three different magma sources? Either that, or about five pumps lined up next to each other to move up *each* level or so, to maintain a constant flow. And you'd want a chasm nearby to deal with the magma that's formed, or you could use it as a moat (probably leading back to the source or sources).<br /> <br /> ::Better yet--have a central pillar in the fort that's always full of magma, so it's accessible by some pumps on the 'ceiling' of the fortress. When you're under attack/about to be, the 3-5 tile moat around you is filled with magma that falls ''down the fortress walls''. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 03:21, 5 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Magma mist can't be made with a waterfall, i tested a while back: [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-918-magma-fall] [[User:Solarshado|Solarshado]] 19:49, 30 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> Does this please dwarfs or not? This artical says they like it while the [[Mist]] artical claims magma mist will not generate happy thougt. I would test this myself but i cant atm. Shouldnt be to hard to verify, and edit one of the articals after if someone could be so kind.--[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 16:38, 12 February 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Does it really matter? Unless you have the temperature settings turned off, your booze-laden dwarves will just catch fire. Not to mention it flows far slower than water, and therefore your drainage systems are much more likely to back up and flood your fortress. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 17:33, 12 February 2009 (EST)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Magma&diff=11292 2009-02-12T22:29:43Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Site finder */</p> <hr /> <div>Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the [[Magma smelter]] article, which state that using [[Fire-safe materials]] is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br /> :If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br /> :: Yes, dwarves seem to be able to swim through magma unharmed when temperature is off(I've had them shoved in during a fight, not 100% sure), but they'll violently resist this, even without danger. Water will still steam, it seems to be hard coded. --[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 16:50, 12 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_rocks#Naming this article] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock#Mineralogical_classification this site] list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?<br /> :It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.<br /> ::So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> :You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--[[User:SL|SL]] 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br /> ::I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this &quot;cap&quot;, I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Magmapool/pipe section ==<br /> Zara, you recently added some info about all magma pipes having cliffs over them -- this is incorrect. I've played a very large number of magma pipe maps, and very often they are completely exposed to the air. I've also removed the line about them being &quot;as small as two z-levels!&quot;, because it needs better phrasing. I may fix it later. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 22:39, 26 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :in the meantime I had figured that out, too. But what is the difference between a magma pipe and a volcano, then? &lt;small&gt;&amp;ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Zara|Zara]]&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> ::As far as I know, the distinction comes down to whether it reaches the surface. If so, some would then call it a volcano rather than a magma pipe. I believe that magma pipes which reach the surface (or volcanoes, if you will) are the only ones which actually show up on the embark map, while underground magma pipes and magma pools do not (unless you use the Regional Prospector tool). --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 23:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::No, similar to Moonanibe,I've played on several maps where, on the embark screen, the magma pipe was only visible using regional prospector. However, as soon as I took a look at the place, I found the magma partly (or completely) exposed on the surface. [[User:Zara|Zara]] 01:59, 11 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Added new section ==<br /> I added a section regarding &quot;Built objects vs. Magma&quot;. I think it's absolutely vital we establish what does and doesn't melt in magma, in a clean list. There are quite a few things that could be added to that list (Constructed floors for one) so please, do add to it. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 17:31, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :Have you tested the bridges? I conjecture that all buildings and constructions without mechanisms are perfectly fine with magma contact. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :: The bridges part was cut from another section of the article and moved in there. Since it was already here, I assumed it was accurate. I haven't actually checked myself. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 16:54, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :I will verify bridges one way or the other. I'm pretty sure they cant melt, though. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:03, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br /> ::they dont melt, as they arent actually within the magma. that was copied over from the 2d wiki and nobody removed it -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 22:29, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br /> ::: I noticed you removed the line about bridges. It seems silly not to mention them at all, so I've written up a line about them working no matter what the material and stuck it in. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 23:12, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br /> ::::yea they should definately be mentioned, wasnt thinking when i removed it completely(recovering from a bad cold and brain is still a bit foggy) -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 00:49, 20 February 2008 (EST)<br /> Tested. Non-magmaiproof bridges -over- magma are fine. Non-magma-proof submerged in magma will melt. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:39, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br /> : Interesting. I'll edit the article to say as much. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 15:30, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br /> This is what I've found: ANY Construction is safe from magma (even wooden ones. Walls, stairs, fortifications, etc). Any building is unaffected by magma if the magma doesn't occupy the same tile as the building. Example: a door is safe if it's closed, even if it's made of non-safe rock or wood. If you lock it open with a mechanism, or if it's jammed, then the magma interacts with the components, burning/melting them if they can't stand the heat. A pump made of wood or any other material is also safe, as long as the magma doesn't flow *over* it. Since the &quot;out&quot; side acts as a wall, if it's correctly isolated from the magma it won't get damaged and will pump the magma without any trouble. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 01:41, 21 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Anyone clear on Vertical Bars in magma? I am attempting to keep imps and such from moving through my magma feeding tunnel and was curious if anyone had any good solutions to this problem. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 16:23, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I just use a bauxite wall grate, it works fine for me. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:02, 15 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> :: Ah, thank you, I just wanted to be sure they didn't melt regardless --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 02:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> &lt;br&gt;<br /> I made a few tests with magma and buildings/constructions and I can confirm some known results and I can provide a few new aspects. Constructions (b-&gt;C) are magma safe (walls, floors, stairs, others not tested). No matter what the material is.<br /> *&lt;s&gt;bridges build with bauxite *rocks* are not magma safe (bauxite mechanism or not)&lt;/s&gt;<br /> *bridges build with bauxite *blocks* are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)<br /> *bridges build with steel bars are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)<br /> Open test: bridge with blocks considered as not magma safe.<br /> &lt;br&gt;[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:14, 11 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The bridges build with bauxite rocks were previously connected with a lever. Unfortunately the mechanism is not removed from the bridge when you remove the lever. Well, at least it seems that the rules for magma safe materials are valid for bridges. With one exception: raised bridges can contain any mechanism, only when magma flows over the bridge it is destroyed.--[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 13:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Replenishing Magma ==<br /> <br /> Since magma replenishes now, I've rewritten that snippet from the article. If I've missed something(a kind of magma not regenerating, though this always worked for me on several maps), feel free to correct things. --[[User:Romantic Warrior|Romantic Warrior]] 15:47, 18 February 2008 (EST).<br /> <br /> <br /> I have a very good feeling that the replenishing magma is just &quot;pressurized&quot; magma. I haven't tested fully, but i have poured water over a magma pipe and re-mined it, and in that case the magma flow was upwards. --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 03:49, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Temperature ==<br /> <br /> Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I'm not sure how the temperature calculations are done, but I CAN tell you that magma will melt nearby ice. Check out http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-153-meltingwateronglacier to see it in action. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 15:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::It should be a flow, just like the magma itself. One of the other visible results is warm stone. The same can probably be said for water and damp stone as well. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Flow?==<br /> <br /> I have a magma pipe (pit) in my current fortress... I breached the pipe from the lowest level because of the diagonal bug when I discovered it, and it filled some long exploratory shafts. Since then, the top magma layer is down to 5/7 and 6/7 running all over the surface. After a little while, it's easy to see that magma act curiously: instead of bouncing from wall to wall like real water physics, in my game the 5/7 (the flow) seems to all move in the same direction at the same time. The direction change often, and seem to change randomly. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> There is another way to stop a flow of magma that's moving through a tunnel. You can go one z-level higher, dig to a spot above the magma-filled tunnel, then build a channel above where the magma is flowing and assign it as a Pond Zone. So long as you have buckets and a viable Water Source zone, a dwarf will come along and drop water on the magma, instantly turning it into obsidian and blocking the tunnel. --[[User:Stromko]] January 6th, 2007<br /> : I've tried this - it rarely works. Usually you just destroy 1/7 of the magma per bucket, along with the water from the bucket, and nothing turns to obsidian. You need to hit it with larger quantities of water at once to get reliable results. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:35, 6 January 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Actually, you have to hit it from two levels up. Just one won't do anything.--[[User:Demosthenes|Demosthenes]] 17:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> I have added a section to the main page on magma flow, based on frequent confusion in the forums, and on some investigations I have been making into the behavior of magma when pumped (I'm not the first to discover this behavior, but I did go to a fair degree of effort to test how it behaves in differing circumstances) --[[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] 21:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :Now THAT is how you make a diagram! Awesome. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:20, 8 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Criteria for Magma Buildings==<br /> <br /> Is there a special condition that must be met before Magma Smelters/Forges/Furnaces and so on will appear on the build menus? I have a magma pit and some channels over it so that I can access it for magma, but I cannot build any magma-using buildings. - [[User:Confused Rat|Confused Rat]]<br /> <br /> :Magma furnaces and forges need a hole somewhere on the ground where they are built. This is to allow the furnace/forge to take the heat from the magma as they are used. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:43, 25 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :What he means is that the magma furnaces don't even appear in the build menu. This is because you haven't discovered magma through natural means. The only way this can happen is if you used reveal to find the magma. You'll have to use the [[Utilities#Enable_Magma_Buildings|Enable Magma Buildings]] utility to make them appear. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:03, 25 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Reclaimed fortresses may be bugged. If you reclaimed you fortress you probably can't do anything with it without 3rd party programs (like one mentioned above). Magma in [[pit]]s isn't enough to allow magma buildings. You need to discover true magma pipe and get pop-up informing about this. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I had a similar problem in a human settlement, so I do not know if the bug applies there, too... but there IS a chance I abandoned and reclaimed at one point, so it could just be that --[[User:Zatnik|Zatnik]] 05:02, 7 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Infinity Generators? ==<br /> <br /> Because magma is currently a finite resource, would it be a good idea to add how to make an infinity generator as workarround untill Toady gives us some more of the stuff?&lt;small&gt;—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Highlord Asehujiko|Highlord Asehujiko]] ([[User talk:Highlord Asehujiko|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Highlord Asehujiko|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}&lt;/small&gt;<br /> :Not on the main article as it would easily be considered cheating. In here, or the [[cheating]] article itself would be fine, the latter probably more appropriate as it could be applied to water as well for those scorching maps. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:16, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Magma regenerates in most cases, which pretty much means it's infinite. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Lava vs. Magma ==<br /> <br /> I hadn't noticed it until just now, but both Lava and Magma occur in the game. I haven't seen this fact referenced in the wiki. Magma is a fluid which occurs in Magma Pipes, and in areas directly connected to Magma Pipes. Lava appears to occur in disconnected areas. I'm not sure what happens if you reconnect. If you use {{k|k}} to view a square, you'll see either Magma or Lava depths given. I'm not clear on what difference there is between the two fluids. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :There is none, just the name. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:30, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::both in df, and irl, molten rock in open air is called lava, while subterranean is called magma -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:40, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Ah, so magma which is ''Outside'' is lava. Cool. I guess my disjoint areas are all also outside :) I suppose we ought to mention this somewhere on the page? --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 19:19, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Magma vs puppy? ==<br /> <br /> I have encountered an interesting glitch. I have 2 puppies and a kitten in magma that aren't dying, and yes I have temperature setting on. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-570-magmavspuppy<br /> <br /> For those interested in trying to recreate it, I believe it has to do with designating the animal to slaughter while trying to throw it into a pit. A few of my dwarves were having pathing errors to try and slaughter them when I noticed the 3 invulnerable pests. After saving and reloading, the critters were insta-gibbed.<br /> --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 04:59, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Chasm Confusion ==<br /> <br /> &quot;The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores.&quot;<br /> <br /> Magma, at least in my experience, has always been surrounded only by Obsidian, as a result you cannot get any kind of insight as to the surrounding minerals, this differs from a chasm where the veins coming up to a chasm are directly reflected in the walls.<br /> <br /> --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 04:18, 26 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> :volcanoes and magmapipes can form large &quot;chasms&quot; above them, though it depends on how rocky the map is<br /> :Confirmed, various minerals and gems were visible in the 'crater' area two levels above the magma in my magma pipe. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:05, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == gruesome accident in reall really older 2d version ==<br /> <br /> beware wooden floodgates<br /> not only do they burn(as I planned)<br /> but i scattered magma all around the room<br /> it rolled around quickly in all directions, flooding the tunnels, burning miners, smelters, war dogs and puppies alike without remorse.<br /> it has thus far filled the entire message screen with &quot; someone&quot; or &quot;something&quot; has burned to death <br /> it appears to gain mass from creeping down hallways! oh god...<br /> 60 deaths, at least 25 dwarves and 15 puppies22:08, 28 July 2008 (EDT)[[User:Eerr|Eerr]]<br /> <br /> == Magma cooling? ==<br /> <br /> Ive noticed at a 1/7 depth, the magma seems to cool and go away. v40d --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:28, 3 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : That is probably what the author meant by &quot;Magma that is only 1 deep &quot;evaporates&quot; over time.&quot; [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 19:58, 3 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Mechanisms on Non-Floodgates ==<br /> <br /> I want to power my underground smelting operations with magma, so I'm digging a tunnel into the side of a magma pipe. I don't want magma creatures coming in that way, so I need a set of [[bars]] across it. However, once I set up the bars, I need to open them to get a miner past and cut the last bit of stone and open the tunnel to the magma. I was going to just attach the bars to a level, but the question of what to use for the [[mechanism]] is bugging me. I don't want to waste my precious imported [[Bauxite]] on the mechanism, and once it closes behind the miner it never need to open again so it's fine it it melts, but not if the melting mechanism will cause the bars to deconstruct! Anyone know what happens to things other than floodgates when their mechanisms get melted off?<br /> --17:11, 7 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : Or you could make your life much simpler with [[Fortifications]]. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :: How? [[Fortification|Fortifications]] allow liquid to pass through and stop creatures, yes, but you can't open them ''at all''. How am I supposed to get my dwarf back after he digs the last square of the channel if there's a fortification blocking the way?--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 15:49, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::I used a fortification to keep fire imps out of my magma channel; I dug a stairway totally unconnected to the rest of my fortress to a spot adjacent to the top layer of the magma pipe, then dug a tunnel from within the fortress to within one tile of the stairway. I fortified the tile that separated the two, then dug a channel (from outside) that let the magma flow against the &quot;outside&quot; face of the fortification. The magma flowed through the fortification and into the &quot;inside&quot; tunnel.<br /> <br /> :::For good measure, in case I want to drain the inside tunnel at some point, I put an s-turn in the inside tunnel and situated a nickel/bauxite floodgate around the corner, out of sight of the fortification.<br /> <br /> :::Viewed from above, basically it looks like this:<br /> <br /> ~============<br /> ~~=====..X...<br /> ~~=====.=====<br /> ~~=&lt;#...=====<br /> ~~===========<br /> ~============<br /> <br /> ~ - Magma pipe<br /> = - Unmined tile (wall)<br /> . - Mined tile (channel)<br /> &lt; - Stairway<br /> # - Fortification<br /> X - Floodgate<br /> <br /> :::The last step here is to remove the tile between the magma and the stairway by digging a channel from one z-level up.<br /> :::--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::Why do you need a stairway? Couldn't you have just put the fortification on the tile where you have the stairway now? I'm also not sure why you need a turn as opposed to having the floodgate directly in line; i.e. {{qd|cols=7|~|`|╬|{{qd/ch{{!}}X{{!}}888|ccc}}|.|.|.}} <br /> ::::[[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:55, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::I believe you can't create a fortification from above, though I could be wrong. It doesn't cost anything to dig one extra z-level down to get yourself a tile with an open face front and back which fortifies up nicely. Also, I put the kink in the tunnel just to be paranoid -- I don't want things shooting fireballs down it. I'm not sure if a fireball can destroy a floodgate. Again, it didn't cost me anything to make it a touch more elaborate.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::Well, if I dug in from above, I could just use a non-retracting set of bars. Fortifications allow liquid to flow, but they slow it down. But I'm not digging at the top level of the pipe. I suppose I could just use a sacrificial non-magma-safe floodgate, set up the bars behind it, and then open it and let it melt.<br /> ::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:20, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Magma Ate My Wall ==<br /> While digging my channel to a magma pipe, I came across a vein of Lignite which ran perpendicular to my channel. I mined it out, hauled the lignite over to my fortress, and then built some walls over the side passages. It's now less than a year later, and one of those wall-units is missing. Unless there's some way a fire imp or other magma creature can destroy walls, the magma must have melted the wall. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 07:12, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Wasn't that wall a Lignite wall ? It may have burnt, then. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:46, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :Yes, it sounds like it was a liginite wall. Magma will ignite coke-bearing rock, this has been the case for a long time. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:56, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :: No, the wall was built from rock salt. All the lignite was hauled away, and as an economic stone, not a material choice I could have made by accident. The floor is still lignite though. Think that may have been a factor? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:58, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::That's possible, but I find it unlikely. Also, I misinterpreted what you meant by 'built a wall', didn't realize it was a construction. I thought it was a smoothed rock face. It's been a persisting question (at least in #df on synIRC) if magma will melt constructions not made of bauxite. You may have just answered that for us. Perhaps you could test by letting magma into a 5x5 room with one natural rock pillar in the middle, and a wall construction of the same type of stone? That'd answer the question once and for all, I think. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:11, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::I've had magma against some of my constructed walls for years and years without damage. A good thing too, I've got quarters on the other side! They're almost certainly basalt. I wouldn't rule out the vanishing wall being caused by a burning floor; lignite can burn for years before vanishing. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:14, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> ::::Interesting. It was probably the liginite floor, then, but that begs the question of how a burning floor could consume a wall; stone should be fire-safe. A really interesting situation, to be sure. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::Also -- as for 'not a material choice I could have made by accident', I've found my masons will happily convert expensive imported ores and flux into blocks if they decide your depot's closer than the nearest basalt. And once anything's blocked, it's useless but for constructions. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:39, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::::: @Corona: That's for a mason's workshop, though. When you build walls, you choose the specific rocks to build from. Although, I have to say that I've never had a mason use a rock from the restricted list.<br /> ::::: For clarity, here's an image capture. The east-west shaft was my original tunnel towards the magma pipe. Every mined-out tile north or south of that shaft was Lignite. However, the opening just below the cursor, where my missing wall is supposed to be, is listed as Rock Salt as well. This is because dwarves kept building that section of wall from the wrong side, and I had to deconstruct it and put it back up several times -- which kills our &quot;burning lignite floor&quot; theory. Hrm.....now that I think about it, I can't be sure that I did build that wall in the end. I can't remember if a dwarf ever built it from the correct side. I'll let you know if another wall section disappears.<br /> [[Image:romeofalling1.GIF]]<br /> <br /> --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:54, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Disambiguation ==<br /> <br /> I see the term ''magma pipe'' and ''magma vent'' being used interchangeably. Do these terms mean the same thing? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:25, 8 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Basically, yes. Magma vents, however, are visible from the surface, whereas magma pipes are not. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:26, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Magma Vs. Sand ==<br /> <br /> In a failed experiment with wooden screw pumps with magma proof blocks, I have discovered something horrible and intriguing. Magma/lava can burn it's way through sand, so now I have an above ground magma cistern half flooding back into the magma pipe I filled it from, and half into my underground workshops through 2 z-levels of sand flooring. I have picture proof too, but I have no idea how to upload pictures from my laptop to a wiki. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :&quot;Upload file&quot;, toolbox, left side of this page.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Ah, thanks. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> Do you mean it goes down z-levels, or does it just move across the sand? magma can normally move across anything except water, I think. --[[User:Destor|Destor]] 14:41, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :Vertically, through z-levels. It created a hole that wasn't there before through a sand floor, into my main hallway, and then through the floor there into my workshops and stockpiles. From there, it simply followed the path of least resistance down the stairs and into the living quarters (not shown). The magma seems to only tunnel through floor tiles that have no wall tile below them, which is understandable but I've never had this happen before. Though, admittedly I have never tried to create a lava cistern on top of sand before. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br /> &lt;gallery&gt;<br /> Image:DF-0.JPG|Above ground (sorry for large size despite jpeg compression)<br /> Image:DF-1.JPG|1 z-level down (main hallway)<br /> Image:DF-2.JPG|2 z-levels down (workshops and rock, bar, and wood stockpiles)<br /> &lt;/gallery&gt;<br /> <br /> == Regarding Boatmurdered ==<br /> <br /> I have this intense desire to flood the world in magma. (yes, I'm playing the 2D Dwarf Fortress. Sue me.) How did they get the magma onto the surface? Last I checked, pumps don't exist, sooo... --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 02:45, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :Channels and aqueducts... They'll transport any liquid anywhere. And bridges too!--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]]<br /> ::But magma's on the &quot;Z-level&quot; below. How's it supposed to get on the actual level of the elephants? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:50, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::You're still thinking in 3D. Magma is &quot;in&quot; the tiles where the river is, and will be in the tiles where you dig a channel, and you want to get it in the tiles where the elephants are, by digging a channel from the magma river to the outside and &quot;releasing&quot; it from the channel using a floodgate. The miner who digs the part of the channel that connects it to the magma river itself might get killed, since they always stood ''in'' the channel square while digging it in the 2D version. Put a floodgate just beyond it before digging it out so you can shut off the flow, since you will make mistakes.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:36, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br /> ::::Yes, I realize I'm thinking in 3D. Exactly how does the magma get out of the channel and onto the ground? Because last I checked, fluids didn't do that naturally. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:44, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::::That's just the way the 2D version works. Channel next to liquid = liquid now in channel. Tile at end of channel not floodgate (or other liquid stopper) = liquid now on ground. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:47, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::::Read [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Channel#Game_mechanics Channel] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Irrigation#Controlled_flooding Irrigation] on the archive wiki. You have to play with channels and floodgates for a bit before it all makes sense, though. The 2D version tended to get real kludgy when it came to fluids. Try to get a farm going to understand the basics of the 2D channels, floodgates, and fluids.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:07, 28 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == No little errors ==<br /> <br /> I just made a discovery. There is nothing like small error in the terms of magma engineering. After attempting to make my lava moat, I accidentally dug channel one tile longer, than it should be. At first, it went good. But then, magma flowed over my wall and flooded entire fortress. Remember - no little errors. [[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 12:19, 30 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Export the local map ==<br /> <br /> &quot;...you can try exporting the local map of the world which can be much more quickly searched for the distinctive red ≈ symbol. &quot; How does one do that? --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 02:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br /> :Right after generating your world, there is an option to export the map. I think it maps to 'p' but I can't swear to it now. I don't know if there is a way to do it at a time other than right after generation. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:45, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Legends screen lets you export maps as well, but they don't have the special features enabled, even with all applicable options enabled. Probably on the todo list 'somewhere', but can't imagine it's even semi-important. So you'll have to rely on worldgen exports. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::I thought it was just the region map you can export, not the local map, and a red ≈ just means desert and/or red sand on that map. You can see named volcanoes on it though -- red ^s.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:16, 4 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Temperature setting ==<br /> <br /> While magma will not cause fires while the temperature is turned off in the init file, it seems the game remembers at least some of the fires it would have caused. I was playing with temperature off and tunneled into magma rather carelessly, knowing it wouldn't hurt me, later, when I turned the temperature on in that game, the dwarves that came into contact with the magma were immediately set on fire. This was about a year later in game. I checked back several times by quitting without saving, every time I turned the temperature on, those same dwarves caught fire, with the temperature off, there was no indication of fire what so ever.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 23:36, 23 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Oh wow, I can imagine tons of uses for that, especially when toady makes it so that you can go and raid the goblins... Kamikaze dwarves, anyone? Well, I guess it should be in the article, but it would be nice to do more testing first. I think that if a dwarf falls in water, he stops burning. So if you could find out if they, after being put out with temperature off, still lit up next time we could put it in. Do more research, I would but I have had trouble with DF lately, it has been mad slow.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 00:01, 24 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::Well, temperatures are flows, and items remember how warm they are, so presumably the dwarves that burst into flames are still at a ridiculous temperature and haven't cooled down. That, or the coating of magma on their bodies is causing them to burn...--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 00:36, 24 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::: It has got to be the coating, as you say. Turning off the tempurature means that they should STOP remembering. The flows should not be calculated, and the items should have nothing to remember. Thats why turning it off speeds up the game, especially in extreme environs or around magma. There was, however, nothing listed that I could find, so this &quot;magma coating&quot; is invisible to the interface. It should also be noted that it was apparently the dwarves who caught fire first, and their burning flesh that apparently set their clothes on fire moments later.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 12:29, 24 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::::Check specifically for magma splatters on the dwarfs in question. I wouldn't be surprised if they picked them up, similar to when creatures get doused in water. The liquid tends to stick all over them, and rarely goes away on it's own. Best bet to preserve them would be to construct a waterfall-shower, and hope it washes away the magma spatter, rather than creating obsidian ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:11, 25 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Site finder==<br /> <br /> Will magma Pipes always show up on the local map? Because my site finder keeps throwing up sites with no visible magma on the local map. --[[User:ArneHD|ArneHD]] 17:09, 12 February 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> :No, magma pipes don't always reach the surface, and therefore won't always show up on the embark map. You can find out it's actual location by taking a guess based off of what stone layers are shown where in the embark map, or you can go to your init.txt and change SHOW_EMBARK_M_PIPE to ALWAYS. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 17:29, 12 February 2009 (EST)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Challenges&diff=22564 2009-01-13T02:29:23Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Magma/Lava Waterfall */</p> <hr /> <div>==Colorful==<br /> This is an idea I got by reading trough all the challenges, what if you make it a goal to have the fortress in the colour of the rainbow. (Example, 80x80 tile fortress, first 10 tiles are red, second 10 tiles are brown-orange, the third 10 are yellow and go on) --[[User:G1real|G1real]] 08:43, 27 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Sparta==<br /> &quot;You shouldn't create chainmail or plate armour.&quot;<br /> &lt;br&gt;why? --Savok <br /> :because spartans don't wear chest armor. you should definately watch 300, it's like Dwarf Fortress on crack! --AlexFili <br /> ::from what I've read, 300 isn't an accurate depiction of Spartan life. However, this challenge build is based on 300 --Savok<br /> :::Alright, fair point, 300 was based from a graphic novel, but many similarities between Spartans in 300 and in real history are present. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 10:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT) <br /> ::::&quot;However, this challenge build is based on 300&quot; No it isn't. At least, it wasn't intended to be. I guess I shouldn't have referred to pop culture when I added it. --juckto<br /> :::::The hell with it. Split off spartans from 300. [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 16:55, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Not only did Spartans use chest armour (although in the form of bronze muscel cuirasses), but it was illegal and finable to fight without your armour. Theres one story of a Prince praying in Temple when some enemies attacked, he ran out naked and killed them, the Oligarchs awarded and praised him with one hand and then fined him with the other. Further specific Spartan attributes, the largely did not wear sandals except during war (don't want your feet to be soft and flabby, gotta make them rock-proof), Sparta itself didn't rely on walls (although they did use them [notably at the battle of the Hot Gates to keep the Persians from landing south of the gates] and the city did eventually make some). Theres also the complicated issue of their government, not sure how to replicate that, dual monarchy with the Kings having no real governmental powers and an oligarchy ruling at home. Maybe having a Legendary warrior lead each of two squads and having every position (Book Keeper, Mayor, Captain of the Guard even maybe) filled by a useless fat rich guy in a nice shiny house. I should also point out alot of their generals and kings were known for a love of gold and that 50% of the population being in the military is not very accurate, actual Spartan soldiers were vastly outnumbered by the Helots. --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> ==No mining==<br /> Now that you construct walls and fortifications out of wood, I wonder if anyone is going to take on a 'no mining' challenge? You're going to need a ''lot'' of wood! --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 17:00, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Some people already are :p --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:44, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::I'm running a game with Elves as the playable civilization, a challenge on its own--The Forest Retreat of Inalamina is well into its ninth year, with a population of 220, and this is without mining ''or'' cutting down any trees. It's defended entirely by spearmen, swordsmen, and wrestlers, and the nobles/admins and wounded elves live happily in tree forts and lean-tos! Worth adding, maybe? I'd even consider writing an article for it... --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:23, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::: I am completely enthralled. I'd love to see it written up. Screenshots, the whole thing. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:37, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> <br /> ::Oh, you mean for the game I'm running itself? I'd love to, but I can't seem to find what the rules for that are and I don't want to step on any toes by randomly creating a page. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:48, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::: Either for the game itself, or a general essay sorta thing on the challenges and solutions for that kind of gameplay. As for the [[rules]], I don't know what you're talking about exactly. A wiki is a kind of anarchistic democracy. If you think it's worth putting up, you are free to put it up. If someone wants to take it down, they're free to do that too. &lt;small&gt;&amp;ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]]&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> :::Put the writeup on your userpage, and if it can be broadened into something else, we'll move it into the mainspace.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:09, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Assassination==<br /> I tried &quot;Assassination&quot; the other day and found that it was incredibly easy with a group of axedwarves. Not only did I kill the hardest-to-get-at goblin, I killed every last other goblin too. In the end, there were only 2 dogs and 2 dwarves dead (the last one fell, sadly, to the last goblin left, who was hiding in the tunnels.--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 22:51, 15 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Now do it with 7 untrained dwarves with no armor. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 19:30, 29 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::Mwa ha ha ha!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:38, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Humanlike? ==<br /> It should be noted that the 'human-like fortress' as described is historically inaccurate. In particular, its either misrepresenting or confusing various details. One major point is that a _castle_ never incorporated a town. There are walled towns and there are castles, but these are entirely different things. A couple of historical periods/styles would lead to the following different suggestions:<br /> <br /> (A) Larger (stone) medieval castles sometimes had industry in the bailey. This was often pressed up against the outer wall to save on space and wall building. It was usually militarily useful industry (ie, metalsmithing of various types). Cooking and possibly brewing might also happen, and cooking at least would have been handled in the keep itself. Industries including jewelry, carpentry (on a permanent basis), and other non-military production would have been outside the castle, quite possibly in a town nearby. <br /> <br /> (B) More isolated smaller castles would have done necessary production in the bailey on a temporary basis (ie, erecting a carpentry work area when needed and disassembling it afterwards), with a few permanent industries (notably blacksmithing).<br /> <br /> (C) 'Dark Ages' castles would be made of wood, and weren't large enough to accomodate much industry. Instead they would have imported everything. The early castle was a defensible home for the lord and his family, and would only house them and a few military retainers.<br /> <br /> It should be noted that the lack of focus on industry in a castle meant diverse tasks might share the same workspace and in fact be handled by the same person. The purpose of a castle is military, not production, and castle's only produced goods for internal demand that either could not be imported, would be inconvenient to import, or were critical to the military purpose (and couldn't afford access to those goods being lost during a siege).<br /> <br /> (D) A walled town would have no keep. Nobles would not live there. Basically, towns would build a wall around their perimeter for defense. More important towns often grew to encompass nearby castles, and often outgrew their walls - which might either lead to substantial portions beyond the walls or accruing walls occasionally to encompass new growth. Despite a castle potentially being encompassed by a town, the castle and town were administratively separate - towns receiving independent charters from the crown - and the town was never subject to the lord of the castle (who may well control the surrounding countryside).<br /> <br /> Given the nature of Dwarf Fortress, treating it as a town rather than a castle is probably preferable unless you really want to emphasize military skills, which could be interesting. You could, of course, create a castle and a town, keeping them as virtually separate entities, with military dwarves and nobles living in the castle and other dwarves living in the town.<br /> <br /> --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:11, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :When did we start trying to make DF fit real-world history?<br /> :His idea seems perfectly fine when compared to in-game human towns/cities, as they have a keep and whatnot as part of the city. Only difference is adding a wall around it all. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:25, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Insane Renegade (just a thought) ==<br /> <br /> Well I was thinking something along these lines,<br /> <br /> They all think that your crazy, so you and some others ran. You shouldn't trust them... They want you dead. Except for the (random profession/job) they think like you. KILL THEM KILL ALL THAT OPPOSE YOU!!,<br /> <br /> Description:<br /> Xenophobia, Do not trade with others, Kill all immigrants except ones of a certain job/profession. If you want to go as a truly insane person, ban all statues and engravings of Dwarven faces (the statues, THE ROCKS! THEY ALL WANT ME DEAD!!!!) Be prepared for a long life of hatred and sieges.<br /> <br /> P.S. if anyone edits this and puts it on the main thing please give me partial credit... Thank you and goodnight! &lt;small&gt;&amp;ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:LrZeph|LrZeph]]&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> :How is this different from [[Challenges#Outcast|Outcast]], aside from the RP? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:41, 22 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Oh dear, i missed that one. never mind &lt;small&gt;&amp;ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:LrZeph|LrZeph]]&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> == Dystopian society ==<br /> <br /> Anyone thought of making a fortress based off one of those dystopian futures found in scifi novels like 1984, We, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451? The way I imagine it, it would be similar to the Equaland challenge, with variations based on the dystopian principle of your choice. For example, if you want to encourage uniformity across your population, enable all labor for every dwarf and persecute anyone who skills up too quickly at a given skill. A strict caste system might also be implementable, a la Brave New World. Another idea would be to kill off or at least &quot;re-educate&quot; any dwarf that falls below ecstatic for an extended period of time. Tons of ideas at {{wiki|Dystopia}}. Thoughts? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :That sounds like a good challenge. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:24, 24 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Underwater Building ==<br /> <br /> I've decided to take on the underwater building challenge, and have started Migrurmestthos, The Ocean-Citadel. But ah... I can't for the live of me figure out how I'm going to get glass blocks to the bottom of the ocean. Any ideas? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 20:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT)&lt;br&gt;<br /> ''P.S.: I've altered the creature tokens and set my Dwarves to Aquatic.''<br /> <br /> :I recommend either<br /> :#Don't build it in the ocean.<br /> :#Use pumping to pump a large area of the top level of the ocean out. Do the same with a slightly smaller area one level down. Repeat as desired.<br /> :#Pump the ocean out, build, then let it flow back in. This is like the above, but with the whole visible ocean. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:45, 20 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::Oookay, okay. I have single-handedly diverted the courses of raging rapids to give my children something to drink, harnessed the power of lava, and built towers of glass. However, I cannot help but approach the idea of pumping out '''the entire ocean''' with a bit of skepticism. Is this ''really'' possible? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 22:53, 21 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::Aye, it is. Aside from waves, the &quot;entire&quot; ocean is really, due to map limitations, just a large, fast-refilling lake. If you build a ring of pumps properly, you should be able to clear the water from a section, which can be as large as your fortress map. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 02:34, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: I've personally been using 'canals' in my fortress for quite a while, and what I do is simply allocate nobles' rooms along the side of the canal, and before flooding the waterway, I dig into it and build glass windows and blocks so the nobles can watch the fish swim by. I doubt it actually raises the room value by any more than the glass windows' base value, but I like the effect. This isn't really an &quot;underwater city&quot; per se, but it's born of the same concept. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 07:45, 26 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Check out [[User:Squirrelloid/Under the Sea]], then note that I haven't quite tested any of the possible methods yet. I'm about ready to turn on the magma tap and see if I can create an obsidian stalagmite with successive bursts of magma followed by channelling - that may provide a way to build stairs down through and assemble a mass pump appartus - yes, this is going to be a lot of work. Its took 6 years of game time to get to the point where I was ready and able to do a trial run - admittedly, it wasn't the only thing I was focused on. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:28, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Dwarf Factory ==<br /> <br /> --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:12, 28 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> Looking to develop this callenge concept:<br /> <br /> Your fortress is a highly specialized industrial complex. Select one item, or very narrow category of items. (ie Flour, Scepters, Shoes, Silk Bags, Crossbow Bolts) This is your factory's product. You must produce as much of it as possible, and it may only be used for export to any any and all caravans which visit your factory. Set up shift schedules, assign massive teams of dwarves (or even all of them!) to your core product, and generally devote your fort to maximizing output. <br /> <br /> Variants: &lt;br /&gt;<br /> Assembly line - Each Dwarf is assigned a single stage of the production cycle, this is their only labour. Workshops should be grouped togeather by type, ordered based on the production cycle and grouped with relevant stockpiles.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Communal - Every Dwarf has every relevant labour enabled, in addition to whatever else they do for the fort.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> High Management - For each Task in your production, appoint a department head. As the number of workers in each department grows, start appointing shift managers. As your factory expands in size, appoint reigonal coordinators and quality control bureaus. Cap this off with a board of directors and a CEO. None of these dwarves do anything but fill noble slots and build social skills.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Prison/Work Camp - Noble dwarves do not contribute to labour. Max the fortress/royal Guard at all times and draft 20% of the population into the army. The remaining dwarves are prisoners who must produce output. Build walls, rig traps, and make an example of anyone who fails to meet their quota.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> People's Glorious Five-Year Plan - As above, but arrive with no skilled workers, rig all facilities with self destructs and kill switches, and only arm one in ten of your soldiers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br /> <br /> Bonus: Only produce things vital to the survival of your workers, or directly involved in making your product. Anything else must be imported.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Further Bonus: Produce only your final product, all raw materials must be imported. spend the surplus on anything else you may need.<br /> <br /> How's it sound?<br /> <br /> == Luxurious Tomb ==<br /> <br /> Build an extravagant mausoleum for your entire dwarf community. Make it multi-leveled, make it a pyramid, make it out of glass if you want - but it must serve no other purpose than to be a dying place, and must not be accessed for any purpose other than to build it. Add a few decorations here and there, statues, tables, and a whole lot of coffins to house everyone.<br /> <br /> Once it's complete, turn your fortress into a ghost town. Remove the designation of all your stockpiles. Forbid all the workshops and forbid access to the different areas of the fort as they get deserted to limit dwarf movement. Lure everyone into the tomb, seal the entrance from the inside and watch everyone die inside their new mausoleum. The tomb should be designed such that the initial entry point cannot easily be guessed (i.e.: The entrance should be sealed using a wall or some other solid structure - not via a door you just mark forbidden.<br /> <br /> BONUS: make access to the tomb difficult or impossible, either by causing a cave-in in the tunnel that leads towards it, or by flooding the surrounding area in water or magma.<br /> <br /> BONUS #2: Build the tomb over a chasm. Find a way to drop the whole tomb-building into it once everyone's inside.<br /> <br /> :Suggestion: DON'T build it over a chasm; build it over a very large pit (deep enough to be called a 'chasm' by some) and make a set of ramps that lead down to the bottom. 1x2 setup; that is:<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ..<br /> That is, up ramps, turn on normal flooring, then continue back up in the opposite direction. So a dwarf would travel in this path:<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> &gt;^<br /> :They'd come down the left ramp, turn left twice, and go down via the right ramp. Then they'd take two more lefts, and go down the left ramp, etc..<br /> :Just a neat little suggestion that's way too complicated, but'd look nice...also, {{k|V}} is a ramp; {{k|^}} is not.<br /> :I can't wait to try this out, then watch the temple I build go down, down, down, and '''SMASH'''--then use the ramps alongside it to view (and plunder, of course--it IS a tomb in adventure mode) it.<br /> :Oh, and just a Z-level view:<br /> | / <br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> |/<br /> |\<br /> | \<br /> | \<br /> | \<br /> :Or:<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> |/___<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> |/___<br /> :Etc.. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 23:45, 25 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Agoraphobia ==<br /> <br /> Your dwarves are absolutely terrified of the great outdoors, ([[carp|and]] [[Elephant|with]] [[Giant eagle|good]] [[undead|reason]] and want nothing more than to be nestled tightly in the &quot;[[Giant Cave Spider|relative]] [[Pit|saftey]]&quot; of the underground. Upon arrival, immediately burrow into the ground and haul all your supplies out of the sun's glare, and then never set foot on the surface again. Also, to help reduce anxiety, have no single chamber larger than 5x5, and let no hall stretch farther than 5 tiles between doors.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 11:42, 15 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == &lt;insert material&gt; Fort....wait, what? ==<br /> <br /> Ok, now I can understand a glass fort...and I can understand making it all outside, but how does one build it under water? Can someone please tell me how to do this so I can try to create my own Dwarven SeaLab? [[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 05:58, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :I believe its either done via pump rings (enough screw pumps can hollow out sections of the ocean long enough to build something to hold the water back), or in a cold enough seasonal environment, only doing construction during the winter. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:44, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :: The third option would be building the fort, and then making a lake around it. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 08:51, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::The real trick with building enough screw pumps is in water deeper than 1 z-level you need to find a way to build down - you cannot hang down staircases off sides like you can up staircases. I'm attempting to pump magma to form an obsidian sheen - tunnel down through it and channel a hole, pump more magma, and so on. I'll let people know how it works... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::So I've heard. Have you tried just carving a staircase along the underwater cliff on your game? I hope to see, or at least hear, the results of your work. As for me, I'm trying this challenge the other way around: Turn a hilly desert map into a massive glass aquarium, with my dwarves living the good life inside. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 13:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::::Well, my goal was to build a free-standing structure in 15 z-levels of water, so yes, if there is a convenient cliff it works, but that limits you to cliffs which start 1 z-level below water. As all my really deep water areas aren't even close to being accessible in that way, its not even an option. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:34, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::::To me, the solution that comes to mind is to place a weapon rack on a narrow causeway and get recruits to wrestle until one punts another into the abyss. The lucky winner gets to build the up staircase. Getting materials below is easy, you can just build something and deconstruct it, among other more elaborate means. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::::That only works if its only 2 z-levels down, because otherwise the dwarf falls into deeper water and drowns... and as 2 z-levels is boring... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:34, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Genesis==<br /> Kill all but two of your starting dwarves off (one male and one female). Seal them in your fortress (no trading). Repopulate the earth. Measure of success is based on number of children before the fortress dies. Thoughts?<br /> --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:12, 22 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :How reliably can you get them to mate?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:57, 22 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :: Tried this out - 3 years in and not even lovers yet. Ick. So, here's the problem: you really want two dwarves who won't start as friends with many other people (although each other is ok), and who can handle stress and aren't quick to anger. Because of course your first hurdle is going to be surviving the unhappiness generated by killing off everyone else. (You may just want to build some coffins early just in case). Unfortunately, the embark screen view mode won't let you see who they're friends with before embarking, so if you want to assign just two of them skills you're making guesses based solely on their personality traits as two which dwarves will be compatible and likely to survive the initial culling. After that you then need to reduce your job queue to almost nothing and basically lock them in the same room together so they spend their time talking - because you've already chosen otherwise self-reliant and anti-social dwarves. <br /> <br /> ::Some evidence on the Relationships talk page suggests giving some social skills to your dwarves may increase the rate at which they progress to friends/lovers.<br /> <br /> ::My first attempt was a Carpenter 5/Cook 5 and a Mason 5/Grower 5... I might have to revise that to Mason 5/Grower 3/Something social 2 and Carpenter 4/Cook 4/something social 2 - but carpenter and mason are going to be important for generating happy thoughts.<br /> <br /> ::Apparently setting the .init file to a max of 2 dwarves doesn't stop immigrants from coming - which is annoying because I really don't want to keep killing them off, and they keep stealing my moods. (Yes, i put a stone stockpile outside so the immigrants can build their own deathtrap over the lava vent). I do recommend playing on an island so you only have to deal with not going outside for the dwarf caravan each year. And the liaison will happily join your migrants on the death trap if you make it a meeting area.<br /> <br /> ::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:18, 23 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::It's all a matter of compatibility. Dwarves actually don't start out friends, they just make them almost instantly at the start (and can make grudges here, too. I had one who had a very low sense of adventure while everyone else had high, and five of the seven had grudges with her.) To become lovers and get married requires a very, very high compatibility--whatever that means. It seems that some dwarves never upgrade from lovers to married, either, perhaps due to being not compatible enough, but being faced with a lack of programming to handle breakups. (I'll leave that one to the playwrights.) Getting this challenge to work is probably more than half the challenge! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 11:29, 23 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::Do social skills make dwarves more likely to make friends, or does being friendly make dwarves more likely to gain social skills? Instead of focusing on social skills, you might need to pick dwarves with a lot of friendly traits (or even compatible traits, like Navian suggests). You can check their personalities before setting out -- if you don't see compatible traits, scrap it and start building another party.<br /> <br /> :::For happiness, build several native gold (i.e., masonry) statues and put them in their bedrooms -- that will dwarf (ahem) the bonus you will get from the bed itself being high-quality. You can potentially skip carpentry altogether.<br /> <br /> :::For them to actually form a relationship, you might need to give them idle time, during which they will socialize. <br /> <br /> :::To keep other dwarves away, you could try putting a moat around the entire perimeter of the map (better still, a magma moat). This worked with the 2D version, but with finite quantities of fluid in the 3D version, it might not work anymore. But if you do want to try, put a wall as close to the edge of the map as it allows you, and flood everything outside it. Have the sacrificial five (and all immigrants) work on that.<br /> <br /> :::Supposedly you won't get moods at all in a fortress with less than 20 dwarves. You also won't get moods if you haven't produced enough goods or revealed enough tiles through mining (see [[strange mood]]).--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:30, 23 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Noblesse requis==<br /> <br /> Build your fortress to please the sick, twisted, evil nobles needs. Build a execution chamber for your rowdy dwarves and build a torture chamber for your dungeon master, using your imagination! Use this to punish pathetic dwarves who dare rebel. Build palaces for your nobles and pamper them in every way. Pour most of your resources into a beautiful place for nobles to live whilst letting your dwarves sleep in tiny, pathetic rooms. The only exception is your mayor, who rises from the rank of the disgusting peons. He must live in squalor as well, preferably next to noble rooms to so the nobles can taunt him. score yourself according to how happy your nobles are, and your worth. Evil. And fun! can I add this to the main page? --[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 03:04, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Sure &amp;ndash; it's a wiki, after all. You can edit the pages yourself!<br /> :Also, is that really what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noblesse_oblige Noblesse/noblis oblige] means? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:55, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Nope, just sounds good. I was hoping nobody would look it up. Maybe I'll change the name. Also, I'm new to wikis in general so I don't really know how everything works, desipte making this profile about a year ago. Thanks!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:26, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> :::Okay, changed it to Noble demand. Thanks!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:30, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Magma/Lava Waterfall ==<br /> <br /> Would creating a sustainable magmafall, or one that can be triggered as part of a defense system, be considered a challenge? Or is it more of a Stupid Dwarf Trick? I'm just curious because one has to take into account building the thing, making sure it won't set your dwarves on fire, and where to put the excess magma/lava since you can't really just pump it back into the magma pipe without some sort of massive and elaborate pump system. (Oh wow, I feel stupid. I created a new subject and forgot to sign it for at least two days.) --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:26, 10 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> :I'm inclined to declare it a SDT, due to the overly dangerous side effects. But then... I'd also call half the challenges SDTs too. I think that if the side effects are more dangerous than the intended effect, it's no longer a challenge, but something some random (insane) dwarf felt needed to be done. To put it in perspective, there's few cases where a 20-dwarf squad can't handle an entire siege, with or without fortifications and traps. Give them those, and they can handle all the siegers rushing and arriving at the same time. Even if you never have any mistakes during the construction of the magma-defenses (and that's a rare thing) then you could easily lose more than 20 in the first siege alone from dwarves trying to gather dropped goods. It's also almost useless against any other defenses (thieves &amp; ambushes) since you'll have little, if any forewarning that you need to clear the area and throw the switch.<br /> :On the other side of the fence, if you're particularly interested in making this, you should do the little things, like making a near-exact count of how much lava you'll need to let flow, to both keep all tiles where it will settle to less than 2/7 (since then it would never evaporate, the best cleaning method) and how to direct the flow so that it covers the path, but doesn't flow to other areas you didn't intend. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 15:38, 11 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::Well, it doesn't have to be part of a defense system, one could just have massive magma waterfalls lining their entrance. Though I have to say from experience that the hardest part is drainage. Creating a massive magma cistern is one thing, it just takes some pumps and construction, but getting the stuff to not backup on the way to the disposal chasm and therefore not flood your fortress is a bit more complex than it first seems.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 11:13, 12 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::Which is why it's great building your fort into the the ledge a few levels over a Magma Pipe ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:01, 12 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::::Hmm, that would be one way to do it, too bad I can't search for maps with that specific of a terrain set. Anyways, there has to be a way to spill off at least some of the magma as the magma pipes fill slowly but constantly from the bottom. Also, I learned from my failed experiment that Coke roads + magma spillover = road of fire. Unusable except for turning your fortress into Mordor, which is awesome in it's own way. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 21:29, 12 January 2009 (EST)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Challenges&diff=22562 2009-01-12T16:13:30Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Magma/Lava Waterfall */</p> <hr /> <div>==Colorful==<br /> This is an idea I got by reading trough all the challenges, what if you make it a goal to have the fortress in the colour of the rainbow. (Example, 80x80 tile fortress, first 10 tiles are red, second 10 tiles are brown-orange, the third 10 are yellow and go on) --[[User:G1real|G1real]] 08:43, 27 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Sparta==<br /> &quot;You shouldn't create chainmail or plate armour.&quot;<br /> &lt;br&gt;why? --Savok <br /> :because spartans don't wear chest armor. you should definately watch 300, it's like Dwarf Fortress on crack! --AlexFili <br /> ::from what I've read, 300 isn't an accurate depiction of Spartan life. However, this challenge build is based on 300 --Savok<br /> :::Alright, fair point, 300 was based from a graphic novel, but many similarities between Spartans in 300 and in real history are present. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 10:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT) <br /> ::::&quot;However, this challenge build is based on 300&quot; No it isn't. At least, it wasn't intended to be. I guess I shouldn't have referred to pop culture when I added it. --juckto<br /> :::::The hell with it. Split off spartans from 300. [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 16:55, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Not only did Spartans use chest armour (although in the form of bronze muscel cuirasses), but it was illegal and finable to fight without your armour. Theres one story of a Prince praying in Temple when some enemies attacked, he ran out naked and killed them, the Oligarchs awarded and praised him with one hand and then fined him with the other. Further specific Spartan attributes, the largely did not wear sandals except during war (don't want your feet to be soft and flabby, gotta make them rock-proof), Sparta itself didn't rely on walls (although they did use them [notably at the battle of the Hot Gates to keep the Persians from landing south of the gates] and the city did eventually make some). Theres also the complicated issue of their government, not sure how to replicate that, dual monarchy with the Kings having no real governmental powers and an oligarchy ruling at home. Maybe having a Legendary warrior lead each of two squads and having every position (Book Keeper, Mayor, Captain of the Guard even maybe) filled by a useless fat rich guy in a nice shiny house. I should also point out alot of their generals and kings were known for a love of gold and that 50% of the population being in the military is not very accurate, actual Spartan soldiers were vastly outnumbered by the Helots. --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> ==No mining==<br /> Now that you construct walls and fortifications out of wood, I wonder if anyone is going to take on a 'no mining' challenge? You're going to need a ''lot'' of wood! --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 17:00, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Some people already are :p --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:44, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::I'm running a game with Elves as the playable civilization, a challenge on its own--The Forest Retreat of Inalamina is well into its ninth year, with a population of 220, and this is without mining ''or'' cutting down any trees. It's defended entirely by spearmen, swordsmen, and wrestlers, and the nobles/admins and wounded elves live happily in tree forts and lean-tos! Worth adding, maybe? I'd even consider writing an article for it... --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:23, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::: I am completely enthralled. I'd love to see it written up. Screenshots, the whole thing. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:37, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> <br /> ::Oh, you mean for the game I'm running itself? I'd love to, but I can't seem to find what the rules for that are and I don't want to step on any toes by randomly creating a page. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:48, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::: Either for the game itself, or a general essay sorta thing on the challenges and solutions for that kind of gameplay. As for the [[rules]], I don't know what you're talking about exactly. A wiki is a kind of anarchistic democracy. If you think it's worth putting up, you are free to put it up. If someone wants to take it down, they're free to do that too. &lt;small&gt;&amp;ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]]&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> :::Put the writeup on your userpage, and if it can be broadened into something else, we'll move it into the mainspace.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:09, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Assassination==<br /> I tried &quot;Assassination&quot; the other day and found that it was incredibly easy with a group of axedwarves. Not only did I kill the hardest-to-get-at goblin, I killed every last other goblin too. In the end, there were only 2 dogs and 2 dwarves dead (the last one fell, sadly, to the last goblin left, who was hiding in the tunnels.--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 22:51, 15 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Now do it with 7 untrained dwarves with no armor. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 19:30, 29 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::Mwa ha ha ha!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:38, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Humanlike? ==<br /> It should be noted that the 'human-like fortress' as described is historically inaccurate. In particular, its either misrepresenting or confusing various details. One major point is that a _castle_ never incorporated a town. There are walled towns and there are castles, but these are entirely different things. A couple of historical periods/styles would lead to the following different suggestions:<br /> <br /> (A) Larger (stone) medieval castles sometimes had industry in the bailey. This was often pressed up against the outer wall to save on space and wall building. It was usually militarily useful industry (ie, metalsmithing of various types). Cooking and possibly brewing might also happen, and cooking at least would have been handled in the keep itself. Industries including jewelry, carpentry (on a permanent basis), and other non-military production would have been outside the castle, quite possibly in a town nearby. <br /> <br /> (B) More isolated smaller castles would have done necessary production in the bailey on a temporary basis (ie, erecting a carpentry work area when needed and disassembling it afterwards), with a few permanent industries (notably blacksmithing).<br /> <br /> (C) 'Dark Ages' castles would be made of wood, and weren't large enough to accomodate much industry. Instead they would have imported everything. The early castle was a defensible home for the lord and his family, and would only house them and a few military retainers.<br /> <br /> It should be noted that the lack of focus on industry in a castle meant diverse tasks might share the same workspace and in fact be handled by the same person. The purpose of a castle is military, not production, and castle's only produced goods for internal demand that either could not be imported, would be inconvenient to import, or were critical to the military purpose (and couldn't afford access to those goods being lost during a siege).<br /> <br /> (D) A walled town would have no keep. Nobles would not live there. Basically, towns would build a wall around their perimeter for defense. More important towns often grew to encompass nearby castles, and often outgrew their walls - which might either lead to substantial portions beyond the walls or accruing walls occasionally to encompass new growth. Despite a castle potentially being encompassed by a town, the castle and town were administratively separate - towns receiving independent charters from the crown - and the town was never subject to the lord of the castle (who may well control the surrounding countryside).<br /> <br /> Given the nature of Dwarf Fortress, treating it as a town rather than a castle is probably preferable unless you really want to emphasize military skills, which could be interesting. You could, of course, create a castle and a town, keeping them as virtually separate entities, with military dwarves and nobles living in the castle and other dwarves living in the town.<br /> <br /> --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:11, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :When did we start trying to make DF fit real-world history?<br /> :His idea seems perfectly fine when compared to in-game human towns/cities, as they have a keep and whatnot as part of the city. Only difference is adding a wall around it all. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:25, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Insane Renegade (just a thought) ==<br /> <br /> Well I was thinking something along these lines,<br /> <br /> They all think that your crazy, so you and some others ran. You shouldn't trust them... They want you dead. Except for the (random profession/job) they think like you. KILL THEM KILL ALL THAT OPPOSE YOU!!,<br /> <br /> Description:<br /> Xenophobia, Do not trade with others, Kill all immigrants except ones of a certain job/profession. If you want to go as a truly insane person, ban all statues and engravings of Dwarven faces (the statues, THE ROCKS! THEY ALL WANT ME DEAD!!!!) Be prepared for a long life of hatred and sieges.<br /> <br /> P.S. if anyone edits this and puts it on the main thing please give me partial credit... Thank you and goodnight! &lt;small&gt;&amp;ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:LrZeph|LrZeph]]&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> :How is this different from [[Challenges#Outcast|Outcast]], aside from the RP? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:41, 22 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Oh dear, i missed that one. never mind &lt;small&gt;&amp;ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:LrZeph|LrZeph]]&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> == Dystopian society ==<br /> <br /> Anyone thought of making a fortress based off one of those dystopian futures found in scifi novels like 1984, We, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451? The way I imagine it, it would be similar to the Equaland challenge, with variations based on the dystopian principle of your choice. For example, if you want to encourage uniformity across your population, enable all labor for every dwarf and persecute anyone who skills up too quickly at a given skill. A strict caste system might also be implementable, a la Brave New World. Another idea would be to kill off or at least &quot;re-educate&quot; any dwarf that falls below ecstatic for an extended period of time. Tons of ideas at {{wiki|Dystopia}}. Thoughts? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :That sounds like a good challenge. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:24, 24 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Underwater Building ==<br /> <br /> I've decided to take on the underwater building challenge, and have started Migrurmestthos, The Ocean-Citadel. But ah... I can't for the live of me figure out how I'm going to get glass blocks to the bottom of the ocean. Any ideas? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 20:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT)&lt;br&gt;<br /> ''P.S.: I've altered the creature tokens and set my Dwarves to Aquatic.''<br /> <br /> :I recommend either<br /> :#Don't build it in the ocean.<br /> :#Use pumping to pump a large area of the top level of the ocean out. Do the same with a slightly smaller area one level down. Repeat as desired.<br /> :#Pump the ocean out, build, then let it flow back in. This is like the above, but with the whole visible ocean. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:45, 20 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::Oookay, okay. I have single-handedly diverted the courses of raging rapids to give my children something to drink, harnessed the power of lava, and built towers of glass. However, I cannot help but approach the idea of pumping out '''the entire ocean''' with a bit of skepticism. Is this ''really'' possible? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 22:53, 21 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::Aye, it is. Aside from waves, the &quot;entire&quot; ocean is really, due to map limitations, just a large, fast-refilling lake. If you build a ring of pumps properly, you should be able to clear the water from a section, which can be as large as your fortress map. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 02:34, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: I've personally been using 'canals' in my fortress for quite a while, and what I do is simply allocate nobles' rooms along the side of the canal, and before flooding the waterway, I dig into it and build glass windows and blocks so the nobles can watch the fish swim by. I doubt it actually raises the room value by any more than the glass windows' base value, but I like the effect. This isn't really an &quot;underwater city&quot; per se, but it's born of the same concept. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 07:45, 26 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Check out [[User:Squirrelloid/Under the Sea]], then note that I haven't quite tested any of the possible methods yet. I'm about ready to turn on the magma tap and see if I can create an obsidian stalagmite with successive bursts of magma followed by channelling - that may provide a way to build stairs down through and assemble a mass pump appartus - yes, this is going to be a lot of work. Its took 6 years of game time to get to the point where I was ready and able to do a trial run - admittedly, it wasn't the only thing I was focused on. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:28, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Dwarf Factory ==<br /> <br /> --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:12, 28 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> Looking to develop this callenge concept:<br /> <br /> Your fortress is a highly specialized industrial complex. Select one item, or very narrow category of items. (ie Flour, Scepters, Shoes, Silk Bags, Crossbow Bolts) This is your factory's product. You must produce as much of it as possible, and it may only be used for export to any any and all caravans which visit your factory. Set up shift schedules, assign massive teams of dwarves (or even all of them!) to your core product, and generally devote your fort to maximizing output. <br /> <br /> Variants: &lt;br /&gt;<br /> Assembly line - Each Dwarf is assigned a single stage of the production cycle, this is their only labour. Workshops should be grouped togeather by type, ordered based on the production cycle and grouped with relevant stockpiles.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Communal - Every Dwarf has every relevant labour enabled, in addition to whatever else they do for the fort.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> High Management - For each Task in your production, appoint a department head. As the number of workers in each department grows, start appointing shift managers. As your factory expands in size, appoint reigonal coordinators and quality control bureaus. Cap this off with a board of directors and a CEO. None of these dwarves do anything but fill noble slots and build social skills.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Prison/Work Camp - Noble dwarves do not contribute to labour. Max the fortress/royal Guard at all times and draft 20% of the population into the army. The remaining dwarves are prisoners who must produce output. Build walls, rig traps, and make an example of anyone who fails to meet their quota.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> People's Glorious Five-Year Plan - As above, but arrive with no skilled workers, rig all facilities with self destructs and kill switches, and only arm one in ten of your soldiers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br /> <br /> Bonus: Only produce things vital to the survival of your workers, or directly involved in making your product. Anything else must be imported.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Further Bonus: Produce only your final product, all raw materials must be imported. spend the surplus on anything else you may need.<br /> <br /> How's it sound?<br /> <br /> == Luxurious Tomb ==<br /> <br /> Build an extravagant mausoleum for your entire dwarf community. Make it multi-leveled, make it a pyramid, make it out of glass if you want - but it must serve no other purpose than to be a dying place, and must not be accessed for any purpose other than to build it. Add a few decorations here and there, statues, tables, and a whole lot of coffins to house everyone.<br /> <br /> Once it's complete, turn your fortress into a ghost town. Remove the designation of all your stockpiles. Forbid all the workshops and forbid access to the different areas of the fort as they get deserted to limit dwarf movement. Lure everyone into the tomb, seal the entrance from the inside and watch everyone die inside their new mausoleum. The tomb should be designed such that the initial entry point cannot easily be guessed (i.e.: The entrance should be sealed using a wall or some other solid structure - not via a door you just mark forbidden.<br /> <br /> BONUS: make access to the tomb difficult or impossible, either by causing a cave-in in the tunnel that leads towards it, or by flooding the surrounding area in water or magma.<br /> <br /> BONUS #2: Build the tomb over a chasm. Find a way to drop the whole tomb-building into it once everyone's inside.<br /> <br /> :Suggestion: DON'T build it over a chasm; build it over a very large pit (deep enough to be called a 'chasm' by some) and make a set of ramps that lead down to the bottom. 1x2 setup; that is:<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ..<br /> That is, up ramps, turn on normal flooring, then continue back up in the opposite direction. So a dwarf would travel in this path:<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> &gt;^<br /> :They'd come down the left ramp, turn left twice, and go down via the right ramp. Then they'd take two more lefts, and go down the left ramp, etc..<br /> :Just a neat little suggestion that's way too complicated, but'd look nice...also, {{k|V}} is a ramp; {{k|^}} is not.<br /> :I can't wait to try this out, then watch the temple I build go down, down, down, and '''SMASH'''--then use the ramps alongside it to view (and plunder, of course--it IS a tomb in adventure mode) it.<br /> :Oh, and just a Z-level view:<br /> | / <br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> |/<br /> |\<br /> | \<br /> | \<br /> | \<br /> :Or:<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> |/___<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> |/___<br /> :Etc.. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 23:45, 25 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Agoraphobia ==<br /> <br /> Your dwarves are absolutely terrified of the great outdoors, ([[carp|and]] [[Elephant|with]] [[Giant eagle|good]] [[undead|reason]] and want nothing more than to be nestled tightly in the &quot;[[Giant Cave Spider|relative]] [[Pit|saftey]]&quot; of the underground. Upon arrival, immediately burrow into the ground and haul all your supplies out of the sun's glare, and then never set foot on the surface again. Also, to help reduce anxiety, have no single chamber larger than 5x5, and let no hall stretch farther than 5 tiles between doors.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 11:42, 15 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == &lt;insert material&gt; Fort....wait, what? ==<br /> <br /> Ok, now I can understand a glass fort...and I can understand making it all outside, but how does one build it under water? Can someone please tell me how to do this so I can try to create my own Dwarven SeaLab? [[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 05:58, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :I believe its either done via pump rings (enough screw pumps can hollow out sections of the ocean long enough to build something to hold the water back), or in a cold enough seasonal environment, only doing construction during the winter. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:44, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :: The third option would be building the fort, and then making a lake around it. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 08:51, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::The real trick with building enough screw pumps is in water deeper than 1 z-level you need to find a way to build down - you cannot hang down staircases off sides like you can up staircases. I'm attempting to pump magma to form an obsidian sheen - tunnel down through it and channel a hole, pump more magma, and so on. I'll let people know how it works... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::So I've heard. Have you tried just carving a staircase along the underwater cliff on your game? I hope to see, or at least hear, the results of your work. As for me, I'm trying this challenge the other way around: Turn a hilly desert map into a massive glass aquarium, with my dwarves living the good life inside. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 13:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::::Well, my goal was to build a free-standing structure in 15 z-levels of water, so yes, if there is a convenient cliff it works, but that limits you to cliffs which start 1 z-level below water. As all my really deep water areas aren't even close to being accessible in that way, its not even an option. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:34, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::::To me, the solution that comes to mind is to place a weapon rack on a narrow causeway and get recruits to wrestle until one punts another into the abyss. The lucky winner gets to build the up staircase. Getting materials below is easy, you can just build something and deconstruct it, among other more elaborate means. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::::That only works if its only 2 z-levels down, because otherwise the dwarf falls into deeper water and drowns... and as 2 z-levels is boring... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:34, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Genesis==<br /> Kill all but two of your starting dwarves off (one male and one female). Seal them in your fortress (no trading). Repopulate the earth. Measure of success is based on number of children before the fortress dies. Thoughts?<br /> --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:12, 22 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :How reliably can you get them to mate?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:57, 22 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :: Tried this out - 3 years in and not even lovers yet. Ick. So, here's the problem: you really want two dwarves who won't start as friends with many other people (although each other is ok), and who can handle stress and aren't quick to anger. Because of course your first hurdle is going to be surviving the unhappiness generated by killing off everyone else. (You may just want to build some coffins early just in case). Unfortunately, the embark screen view mode won't let you see who they're friends with before embarking, so if you want to assign just two of them skills you're making guesses based solely on their personality traits as two which dwarves will be compatible and likely to survive the initial culling. After that you then need to reduce your job queue to almost nothing and basically lock them in the same room together so they spend their time talking - because you've already chosen otherwise self-reliant and anti-social dwarves. <br /> <br /> ::Some evidence on the Relationships talk page suggests giving some social skills to your dwarves may increase the rate at which they progress to friends/lovers.<br /> <br /> ::My first attempt was a Carpenter 5/Cook 5 and a Mason 5/Grower 5... I might have to revise that to Mason 5/Grower 3/Something social 2 and Carpenter 4/Cook 4/something social 2 - but carpenter and mason are going to be important for generating happy thoughts.<br /> <br /> ::Apparently setting the .init file to a max of 2 dwarves doesn't stop immigrants from coming - which is annoying because I really don't want to keep killing them off, and they keep stealing my moods. (Yes, i put a stone stockpile outside so the immigrants can build their own deathtrap over the lava vent). I do recommend playing on an island so you only have to deal with not going outside for the dwarf caravan each year. And the liaison will happily join your migrants on the death trap if you make it a meeting area.<br /> <br /> ::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:18, 23 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::It's all a matter of compatibility. Dwarves actually don't start out friends, they just make them almost instantly at the start (and can make grudges here, too. I had one who had a very low sense of adventure while everyone else had high, and five of the seven had grudges with her.) To become lovers and get married requires a very, very high compatibility--whatever that means. It seems that some dwarves never upgrade from lovers to married, either, perhaps due to being not compatible enough, but being faced with a lack of programming to handle breakups. (I'll leave that one to the playwrights.) Getting this challenge to work is probably more than half the challenge! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 11:29, 23 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::Do social skills make dwarves more likely to make friends, or does being friendly make dwarves more likely to gain social skills? Instead of focusing on social skills, you might need to pick dwarves with a lot of friendly traits (or even compatible traits, like Navian suggests). You can check their personalities before setting out -- if you don't see compatible traits, scrap it and start building another party.<br /> <br /> :::For happiness, build several native gold (i.e., masonry) statues and put them in their bedrooms -- that will dwarf (ahem) the bonus you will get from the bed itself being high-quality. You can potentially skip carpentry altogether.<br /> <br /> :::For them to actually form a relationship, you might need to give them idle time, during which they will socialize. <br /> <br /> :::To keep other dwarves away, you could try putting a moat around the entire perimeter of the map (better still, a magma moat). This worked with the 2D version, but with finite quantities of fluid in the 3D version, it might not work anymore. But if you do want to try, put a wall as close to the edge of the map as it allows you, and flood everything outside it. Have the sacrificial five (and all immigrants) work on that.<br /> <br /> :::Supposedly you won't get moods at all in a fortress with less than 20 dwarves. You also won't get moods if you haven't produced enough goods or revealed enough tiles through mining (see [[strange mood]]).--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:30, 23 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Noblesse requis==<br /> <br /> Build your fortress to please the sick, twisted, evil nobles needs. Build a execution chamber for your rowdy dwarves and build a torture chamber for your dungeon master, using your imagination! Use this to punish pathetic dwarves who dare rebel. Build palaces for your nobles and pamper them in every way. Pour most of your resources into a beautiful place for nobles to live whilst letting your dwarves sleep in tiny, pathetic rooms. The only exception is your mayor, who rises from the rank of the disgusting peons. He must live in squalor as well, preferably next to noble rooms to so the nobles can taunt him. score yourself according to how happy your nobles are, and your worth. Evil. And fun! can I add this to the main page? --[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 03:04, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Sure &amp;ndash; it's a wiki, after all. You can edit the pages yourself!<br /> :Also, is that really what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noblesse_oblige Noblesse/noblis oblige] means? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:55, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Nope, just sounds good. I was hoping nobody would look it up. Maybe I'll change the name. Also, I'm new to wikis in general so I don't really know how everything works, desipte making this profile about a year ago. Thanks!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:26, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> :::Okay, changed it to Noble demand. Thanks!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:30, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Magma/Lava Waterfall ==<br /> <br /> Would creating a sustainable magmafall, or one that can be triggered as part of a defense system, be considered a challenge? Or is it more of a Stupid Dwarf Trick? I'm just curious because one has to take into account building the thing, making sure it won't set your dwarves on fire, and where to put the excess magma/lava since you can't really just pump it back into the magma pipe without some sort of massive and elaborate pump system. (Oh wow, I feel stupid. I created a new subject and forgot to sign it for at least two days.) --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:26, 10 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> :I'm inclined to declare it a SDT, due to the overly dangerous side effects. But then... I'd also call half the challenges SDTs too. I think that if the side effects are more dangerous than the intended effect, it's no longer a challenge, but something some random (insane) dwarf felt needed to be done. To put it in perspective, there's few cases where a 20-dwarf squad can't handle an entire siege, with or without fortifications and traps. Give them those, and they can handle all the siegers rushing and arriving at the same time. Even if you never have any mistakes during the construction of the magma-defenses (and that's a rare thing) then you could easily lose more than 20 in the first siege alone from dwarves trying to gather dropped goods. It's also almost useless against any other defenses (thieves &amp; ambushes) since you'll have little, if any forewarning that you need to clear the area and throw the switch.<br /> :On the other side of the fence, if you're particularly interested in making this, you should do the little things, like making a near-exact count of how much lava you'll need to let flow, to both keep all tiles where it will settle to less than 2/7 (since then it would never evaporate, the best cleaning method) and how to direct the flow so that it covers the path, but doesn't flow to other areas you didn't intend. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 15:38, 11 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::Well, it doesn't have to be part of a defense system, one could just have massive magma waterfalls lining their entrance. Though I have to say from experience that the hardest part is drainage. Creating a massive magma cistern is one thing, it just takes some pumps and construction, but getting the stuff to not backup on the way to the disposal chasm and therefore not flood your fortress is a bit more complex than it first seems.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 11:13, 12 January 2009 (EST)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Refined_coal&diff=28456 2009-01-11T18:03:40Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Coke/Charcoal constructions + Magma = Permanent fire? */</p> <hr /> <div>Maybe the articles on charcoal and coke should be merged with this page on fuel since all three pages basically say the same thing. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 18:00, 22 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Starting things off ==<br /> <br /> Somehow this needs to be adjusted to show that to kick start your smelter you need some coal... or is there some other way of getting from bituminous coal to coke? fan I use some other furnace to get started? (I have plenty of wood, &quot;rock&quot; and bituminous coal but no &quot;coal&quot; or magma).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:27, 8 January 2008 (EST)<br /> :it already says &quot;(fuel will be needed to power this at a normal smelter)&quot; for the bituminous coal to coke reaction in the article. turn that wood into charcoal and use it to turn the bituminous coal to coke [[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 21:55, 8 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::All right... someone at a different page said I needed '''coal''' and I couldn't find &quot;just coal&quot; mentioned ANYWHERE, hence my confusion.<br /> ::So I need to &quot;process&quot; wood to get &quot;charcoal&quot;. Will see how I go, thanks.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:18, 9 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Is wood burning a skill? ==<br /> <br /> I cant seem to find it on the [[skill]] page. Either that or this one should be changed<br /> :Wood Burner at the bottom of the Farmer section. It's there :) --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 18:02, 8 January 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Oops, my bad. Sorry --[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 17:53, 9 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Block template ==<br /> <br /> Over at [[Lignite]] there is a pretty little box which looks like:<br /> {{Stone|name=Lignite|tile=*|color=#888<br /> |uses =<br /> * 2 [[coke]] at [[smelter]]<br /> |location =<br /> * [[Sedimentary layer]]s<br /> * Found as veins<br /> |properties =<br /> * Can [[ignite]]<br /> * [[Economic stone]]<br /> * [[Material value]] 1}}<br /> <br /> It would be nice if there was one here too.<br /> <br /> Secondly, what I would like to do on [[Lignite]] and [[Bituminous coal]] is have a pictorial formula which says:<br /> l [[lignite]] + 1 [[coal]] = 2 [[coke]]<br /> ( it would be like :<br /> {{key|l}}{{key|l}} + {{key|c}} = {{key|a}} but with pictures of the tiles instead of letters)<br /> <br /> but I don't know how to do the tiles for lignite / coal / coke / charcoal.<br /> [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Coke/Charcoal constructions + Magma = Permanent fire? ==<br /> <br /> I always wondered if making a magma cistern out of Coke would create a massive, but permanent fire. The reasoning would be that coal burns in any form, magma is hot, but constructions are permanent and not destroyed by magma. In a failed attempt to create a permanent magma waterfall, some magma touched my coke road (I had no iron, but magma and plenty of bitimous coal, so I thought &quot;why not?&quot;). The road is now on fire, but I do not know if it will be permanent as my remaining dwarves will perish by the end of the season by leftover fire/lava, starvation/drought or depression, so I have to ask if anyone knows if coal constructions will ever disappear. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:25, 10 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> :It won't even burn. Don't try, you'll just be wasting time. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 02:31, 11 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::I beg to differ as that is what I said happen in my previous (and long, sorry about that) post. My Coke Road caught on fire when magma spilled onto it, and never went out before I abandoned the fortress (I didn't feel like waiting for the remaining 5 dwarves to starve to death). --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 13:03, 11 January 2009 (EST)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Refined_coal&diff=28455 2009-01-11T18:03:28Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Coke/Charcoal constructions + Magma = Permanent fire? */</p> <hr /> <div>Maybe the articles on charcoal and coke should be merged with this page on fuel since all three pages basically say the same thing. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 18:00, 22 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Starting things off ==<br /> <br /> Somehow this needs to be adjusted to show that to kick start your smelter you need some coal... or is there some other way of getting from bituminous coal to coke? fan I use some other furnace to get started? (I have plenty of wood, &quot;rock&quot; and bituminous coal but no &quot;coal&quot; or magma).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:27, 8 January 2008 (EST)<br /> :it already says &quot;(fuel will be needed to power this at a normal smelter)&quot; for the bituminous coal to coke reaction in the article. turn that wood into charcoal and use it to turn the bituminous coal to coke [[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 21:55, 8 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::All right... someone at a different page said I needed '''coal''' and I couldn't find &quot;just coal&quot; mentioned ANYWHERE, hence my confusion.<br /> ::So I need to &quot;process&quot; wood to get &quot;charcoal&quot;. Will see how I go, thanks.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:18, 9 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Is wood burning a skill? ==<br /> <br /> I cant seem to find it on the [[skill]] page. Either that or this one should be changed<br /> :Wood Burner at the bottom of the Farmer section. It's there :) --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 18:02, 8 January 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Oops, my bad. Sorry --[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 17:53, 9 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Block template ==<br /> <br /> Over at [[Lignite]] there is a pretty little box which looks like:<br /> {{Stone|name=Lignite|tile=*|color=#888<br /> |uses =<br /> * 2 [[coke]] at [[smelter]]<br /> |location =<br /> * [[Sedimentary layer]]s<br /> * Found as veins<br /> |properties =<br /> * Can [[ignite]]<br /> * [[Economic stone]]<br /> * [[Material value]] 1}}<br /> <br /> It would be nice if there was one here too.<br /> <br /> Secondly, what I would like to do on [[Lignite]] and [[Bituminous coal]] is have a pictorial formula which says:<br /> l [[lignite]] + 1 [[coal]] = 2 [[coke]]<br /> ( it would be like :<br /> {{key|l}}{{key|l}} + {{key|c}} = {{key|a}} but with pictures of the tiles instead of letters)<br /> <br /> but I don't know how to do the tiles for lignite / coal / coke / charcoal.<br /> [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Coke/Charcoal constructions + Magma = Permanent fire? ==<br /> <br /> I always wondered if making a magma cistern out of Coke would create a massive, but permanent fire. The reasoning would be that coal burns in any form, magma is hot, but constructions are permanent and not destroyed by magma. In a failed attempt to create a permanent magma waterfall, some magma touched my coke road (I had no iron, but magma and plenty of bitimous coal, so I thought &quot;why not?&quot;). The road is now on fire, but I do not know if it will be permanent as my remaining dwarves will perish by the end of the season by leftover fire/lava, starvation/drought or depression, so I have to ask if anyone knows if coal constructions will ever disappear. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:25, 10 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> :It won't even burn. Don't try, you'll just be wasting time. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 02:31, 11 January 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::I beg to differ as that is what I said happen in my previous (and long, sorry about that) post. My Coke Road caught on fire when magma spilled onto it, and never went out before I abandoned the fortress (I didn't feel like waiting for the remaining 5 dwarves to starve to death).</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Challenges&diff=22560 2009-01-11T01:26:49Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Magma/Lava Waterfall */</p> <hr /> <div>==Colorful==<br /> This is an idea I got by reading trough all the challenges, what if you make it a goal to have the fortress in the colour of the rainbow. (Example, 80x80 tile fortress, first 10 tiles are red, second 10 tiles are brown-orange, the third 10 are yellow and go on) --[[User:G1real|G1real]] 08:43, 27 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Sparta==<br /> &quot;You shouldn't create chainmail or plate armour.&quot;<br /> &lt;br&gt;why? --Savok <br /> :because spartans don't wear chest armor. you should definately watch 300, it's like Dwarf Fortress on crack! --AlexFili <br /> ::from what I've read, 300 isn't an accurate depiction of Spartan life. However, this challenge build is based on 300 --Savok<br /> :::Alright, fair point, 300 was based from a graphic novel, but many similarities between Spartans in 300 and in real history are present. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 10:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT) <br /> ::::&quot;However, this challenge build is based on 300&quot; No it isn't. At least, it wasn't intended to be. I guess I shouldn't have referred to pop culture when I added it. --juckto<br /> :::::The hell with it. Split off spartans from 300. [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 16:55, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Not only did Spartans use chest armour (although in the form of bronze muscel cuirasses), but it was illegal and finable to fight without your armour. Theres one story of a Prince praying in Temple when some enemies attacked, he ran out naked and killed them, the Oligarchs awarded and praised him with one hand and then fined him with the other. Further specific Spartan attributes, the largely did not wear sandals except during war (don't want your feet to be soft and flabby, gotta make them rock-proof), Sparta itself didn't rely on walls (although they did use them [notably at the battle of the Hot Gates to keep the Persians from landing south of the gates] and the city did eventually make some). Theres also the complicated issue of their government, not sure how to replicate that, dual monarchy with the Kings having no real governmental powers and an oligarchy ruling at home. Maybe having a Legendary warrior lead each of two squads and having every position (Book Keeper, Mayor, Captain of the Guard even maybe) filled by a useless fat rich guy in a nice shiny house. I should also point out alot of their generals and kings were known for a love of gold and that 50% of the population being in the military is not very accurate, actual Spartan soldiers were vastly outnumbered by the Helots. --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> ==No mining==<br /> Now that you construct walls and fortifications out of wood, I wonder if anyone is going to take on a 'no mining' challenge? You're going to need a ''lot'' of wood! --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 17:00, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Some people already are :p --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:44, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::I'm running a game with Elves as the playable civilization, a challenge on its own--The Forest Retreat of Inalamina is well into its ninth year, with a population of 220, and this is without mining ''or'' cutting down any trees. It's defended entirely by spearmen, swordsmen, and wrestlers, and the nobles/admins and wounded elves live happily in tree forts and lean-tos! Worth adding, maybe? I'd even consider writing an article for it... --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:23, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::: I am completely enthralled. I'd love to see it written up. Screenshots, the whole thing. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:37, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> <br /> ::Oh, you mean for the game I'm running itself? I'd love to, but I can't seem to find what the rules for that are and I don't want to step on any toes by randomly creating a page. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:48, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::: Either for the game itself, or a general essay sorta thing on the challenges and solutions for that kind of gameplay. As for the [[rules]], I don't know what you're talking about exactly. A wiki is a kind of anarchistic democracy. If you think it's worth putting up, you are free to put it up. If someone wants to take it down, they're free to do that too. &lt;small&gt;&amp;ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]]&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> :::Put the writeup on your userpage, and if it can be broadened into something else, we'll move it into the mainspace.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:09, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Assassination==<br /> I tried &quot;Assassination&quot; the other day and found that it was incredibly easy with a group of axedwarves. Not only did I kill the hardest-to-get-at goblin, I killed every last other goblin too. In the end, there were only 2 dogs and 2 dwarves dead (the last one fell, sadly, to the last goblin left, who was hiding in the tunnels.--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 22:51, 15 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Now do it with 7 untrained dwarves with no armor. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 19:30, 29 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::Mwa ha ha ha!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:38, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Humanlike? ==<br /> It should be noted that the 'human-like fortress' as described is historically inaccurate. In particular, its either misrepresenting or confusing various details. One major point is that a _castle_ never incorporated a town. There are walled towns and there are castles, but these are entirely different things. A couple of historical periods/styles would lead to the following different suggestions:<br /> <br /> (A) Larger (stone) medieval castles sometimes had industry in the bailey. This was often pressed up against the outer wall to save on space and wall building. It was usually militarily useful industry (ie, metalsmithing of various types). Cooking and possibly brewing might also happen, and cooking at least would have been handled in the keep itself. Industries including jewelry, carpentry (on a permanent basis), and other non-military production would have been outside the castle, quite possibly in a town nearby. <br /> <br /> (B) More isolated smaller castles would have done necessary production in the bailey on a temporary basis (ie, erecting a carpentry work area when needed and disassembling it afterwards), with a few permanent industries (notably blacksmithing).<br /> <br /> (C) 'Dark Ages' castles would be made of wood, and weren't large enough to accomodate much industry. Instead they would have imported everything. The early castle was a defensible home for the lord and his family, and would only house them and a few military retainers.<br /> <br /> It should be noted that the lack of focus on industry in a castle meant diverse tasks might share the same workspace and in fact be handled by the same person. The purpose of a castle is military, not production, and castle's only produced goods for internal demand that either could not be imported, would be inconvenient to import, or were critical to the military purpose (and couldn't afford access to those goods being lost during a siege).<br /> <br /> (D) A walled town would have no keep. Nobles would not live there. Basically, towns would build a wall around their perimeter for defense. More important towns often grew to encompass nearby castles, and often outgrew their walls - which might either lead to substantial portions beyond the walls or accruing walls occasionally to encompass new growth. Despite a castle potentially being encompassed by a town, the castle and town were administratively separate - towns receiving independent charters from the crown - and the town was never subject to the lord of the castle (who may well control the surrounding countryside).<br /> <br /> Given the nature of Dwarf Fortress, treating it as a town rather than a castle is probably preferable unless you really want to emphasize military skills, which could be interesting. You could, of course, create a castle and a town, keeping them as virtually separate entities, with military dwarves and nobles living in the castle and other dwarves living in the town.<br /> <br /> --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:11, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :When did we start trying to make DF fit real-world history?<br /> :His idea seems perfectly fine when compared to in-game human towns/cities, as they have a keep and whatnot as part of the city. Only difference is adding a wall around it all. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:25, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Insane Renegade (just a thought) ==<br /> <br /> Well I was thinking something along these lines,<br /> <br /> They all think that your crazy, so you and some others ran. You shouldn't trust them... They want you dead. Except for the (random profession/job) they think like you. KILL THEM KILL ALL THAT OPPOSE YOU!!,<br /> <br /> Description:<br /> Xenophobia, Do not trade with others, Kill all immigrants except ones of a certain job/profession. If you want to go as a truly insane person, ban all statues and engravings of Dwarven faces (the statues, THE ROCKS! THEY ALL WANT ME DEAD!!!!) Be prepared for a long life of hatred and sieges.<br /> <br /> P.S. if anyone edits this and puts it on the main thing please give me partial credit... Thank you and goodnight! &lt;small&gt;&amp;ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:LrZeph|LrZeph]]&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> :How is this different from [[Challenges#Outcast|Outcast]], aside from the RP? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:41, 22 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Oh dear, i missed that one. never mind &lt;small&gt;&amp;ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:LrZeph|LrZeph]]&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> == Dystopian society ==<br /> <br /> Anyone thought of making a fortress based off one of those dystopian futures found in scifi novels like 1984, We, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451? The way I imagine it, it would be similar to the Equaland challenge, with variations based on the dystopian principle of your choice. For example, if you want to encourage uniformity across your population, enable all labor for every dwarf and persecute anyone who skills up too quickly at a given skill. A strict caste system might also be implementable, a la Brave New World. Another idea would be to kill off or at least &quot;re-educate&quot; any dwarf that falls below ecstatic for an extended period of time. Tons of ideas at {{wiki|Dystopia}}. Thoughts? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :That sounds like a good challenge. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:24, 24 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Underwater Building ==<br /> <br /> I've decided to take on the underwater building challenge, and have started Migrurmestthos, The Ocean-Citadel. But ah... I can't for the live of me figure out how I'm going to get glass blocks to the bottom of the ocean. Any ideas? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 20:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT)&lt;br&gt;<br /> ''P.S.: I've altered the creature tokens and set my Dwarves to Aquatic.''<br /> <br /> :I recommend either<br /> :#Don't build it in the ocean.<br /> :#Use pumping to pump a large area of the top level of the ocean out. Do the same with a slightly smaller area one level down. Repeat as desired.<br /> :#Pump the ocean out, build, then let it flow back in. This is like the above, but with the whole visible ocean. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:45, 20 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::Oookay, okay. I have single-handedly diverted the courses of raging rapids to give my children something to drink, harnessed the power of lava, and built towers of glass. However, I cannot help but approach the idea of pumping out '''the entire ocean''' with a bit of skepticism. Is this ''really'' possible? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 22:53, 21 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::Aye, it is. Aside from waves, the &quot;entire&quot; ocean is really, due to map limitations, just a large, fast-refilling lake. If you build a ring of pumps properly, you should be able to clear the water from a section, which can be as large as your fortress map. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 02:34, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: I've personally been using 'canals' in my fortress for quite a while, and what I do is simply allocate nobles' rooms along the side of the canal, and before flooding the waterway, I dig into it and build glass windows and blocks so the nobles can watch the fish swim by. I doubt it actually raises the room value by any more than the glass windows' base value, but I like the effect. This isn't really an &quot;underwater city&quot; per se, but it's born of the same concept. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 07:45, 26 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Check out [[User:Squirrelloid/Under the Sea]], then note that I haven't quite tested any of the possible methods yet. I'm about ready to turn on the magma tap and see if I can create an obsidian stalagmite with successive bursts of magma followed by channelling - that may provide a way to build stairs down through and assemble a mass pump appartus - yes, this is going to be a lot of work. Its took 6 years of game time to get to the point where I was ready and able to do a trial run - admittedly, it wasn't the only thing I was focused on. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:28, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Dwarf Factory ==<br /> <br /> --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:12, 28 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> Looking to develop this callenge concept:<br /> <br /> Your fortress is a highly specialized industrial complex. Select one item, or very narrow category of items. (ie Flour, Scepters, Shoes, Silk Bags, Crossbow Bolts) This is your factory's product. You must produce as much of it as possible, and it may only be used for export to any any and all caravans which visit your factory. Set up shift schedules, assign massive teams of dwarves (or even all of them!) to your core product, and generally devote your fort to maximizing output. <br /> <br /> Variants: &lt;br /&gt;<br /> Assembly line - Each Dwarf is assigned a single stage of the production cycle, this is their only labour. Workshops should be grouped togeather by type, ordered based on the production cycle and grouped with relevant stockpiles.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Communal - Every Dwarf has every relevant labour enabled, in addition to whatever else they do for the fort.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> High Management - For each Task in your production, appoint a department head. As the number of workers in each department grows, start appointing shift managers. As your factory expands in size, appoint reigonal coordinators and quality control bureaus. Cap this off with a board of directors and a CEO. None of these dwarves do anything but fill noble slots and build social skills.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Prison/Work Camp - Noble dwarves do not contribute to labour. Max the fortress/royal Guard at all times and draft 20% of the population into the army. The remaining dwarves are prisoners who must produce output. Build walls, rig traps, and make an example of anyone who fails to meet their quota.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> People's Glorious Five-Year Plan - As above, but arrive with no skilled workers, rig all facilities with self destructs and kill switches, and only arm one in ten of your soldiers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br /> <br /> Bonus: Only produce things vital to the survival of your workers, or directly involved in making your product. Anything else must be imported.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Further Bonus: Produce only your final product, all raw materials must be imported. spend the surplus on anything else you may need.<br /> <br /> How's it sound?<br /> <br /> == Luxurious Tomb ==<br /> <br /> Build an extravagant mausoleum for your entire dwarf community. Make it multi-leveled, make it a pyramid, make it out of glass if you want - but it must serve no other purpose than to be a dying place, and must not be accessed for any purpose other than to build it. Add a few decorations here and there, statues, tables, and a whole lot of coffins to house everyone.<br /> <br /> Once it's complete, turn your fortress into a ghost town. Remove the designation of all your stockpiles. Forbid all the workshops and forbid access to the different areas of the fort as they get deserted to limit dwarf movement. Lure everyone into the tomb, seal the entrance from the inside and watch everyone die inside their new mausoleum. The tomb should be designed such that the initial entry point cannot easily be guessed (i.e.: The entrance should be sealed using a wall or some other solid structure - not via a door you just mark forbidden.<br /> <br /> BONUS: make access to the tomb difficult or impossible, either by causing a cave-in in the tunnel that leads towards it, or by flooding the surrounding area in water or magma.<br /> <br /> BONUS #2: Build the tomb over a chasm. Find a way to drop the whole tomb-building into it once everyone's inside.<br /> <br /> :Suggestion: DON'T build it over a chasm; build it over a very large pit (deep enough to be called a 'chasm' by some) and make a set of ramps that lead down to the bottom. 1x2 setup; that is:<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ..<br /> That is, up ramps, turn on normal flooring, then continue back up in the opposite direction. So a dwarf would travel in this path:<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> &gt;^<br /> :They'd come down the left ramp, turn left twice, and go down via the right ramp. Then they'd take two more lefts, and go down the left ramp, etc..<br /> :Just a neat little suggestion that's way too complicated, but'd look nice...also, {{k|V}} is a ramp; {{k|^}} is not.<br /> :I can't wait to try this out, then watch the temple I build go down, down, down, and '''SMASH'''--then use the ramps alongside it to view (and plunder, of course--it IS a tomb in adventure mode) it.<br /> :Oh, and just a Z-level view:<br /> | / <br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> |/<br /> |\<br /> | \<br /> | \<br /> | \<br /> :Or:<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> |/___<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> |/___<br /> :Etc.. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 23:45, 25 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Agoraphobia ==<br /> <br /> Your dwarves are absolutely terrified of the great outdoors, ([[carp|and]] [[Elephant|with]] [[Giant eagle|good]] [[undead|reason]] and want nothing more than to be nestled tightly in the &quot;[[Giant Cave Spider|relative]] [[Pit|saftey]]&quot; of the underground. Upon arrival, immediately burrow into the ground and haul all your supplies out of the sun's glare, and then never set foot on the surface again. Also, to help reduce anxiety, have no single chamber larger than 5x5, and let no hall stretch farther than 5 tiles between doors.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 11:42, 15 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == &lt;insert material&gt; Fort....wait, what? ==<br /> <br /> Ok, now I can understand a glass fort...and I can understand making it all outside, but how does one build it under water? Can someone please tell me how to do this so I can try to create my own Dwarven SeaLab? [[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 05:58, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :I believe its either done via pump rings (enough screw pumps can hollow out sections of the ocean long enough to build something to hold the water back), or in a cold enough seasonal environment, only doing construction during the winter. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:44, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :: The third option would be building the fort, and then making a lake around it. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 08:51, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::The real trick with building enough screw pumps is in water deeper than 1 z-level you need to find a way to build down - you cannot hang down staircases off sides like you can up staircases. I'm attempting to pump magma to form an obsidian sheen - tunnel down through it and channel a hole, pump more magma, and so on. I'll let people know how it works... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::So I've heard. Have you tried just carving a staircase along the underwater cliff on your game? I hope to see, or at least hear, the results of your work. As for me, I'm trying this challenge the other way around: Turn a hilly desert map into a massive glass aquarium, with my dwarves living the good life inside. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 13:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::::Well, my goal was to build a free-standing structure in 15 z-levels of water, so yes, if there is a convenient cliff it works, but that limits you to cliffs which start 1 z-level below water. As all my really deep water areas aren't even close to being accessible in that way, its not even an option. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:34, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::::To me, the solution that comes to mind is to place a weapon rack on a narrow causeway and get recruits to wrestle until one punts another into the abyss. The lucky winner gets to build the up staircase. Getting materials below is easy, you can just build something and deconstruct it, among other more elaborate means. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::::That only works if its only 2 z-levels down, because otherwise the dwarf falls into deeper water and drowns... and as 2 z-levels is boring... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:34, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Genesis==<br /> Kill all but two of your starting dwarves off (one male and one female). Seal them in your fortress (no trading). Repopulate the earth. Measure of success is based on number of children before the fortress dies. Thoughts?<br /> --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:12, 22 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :How reliably can you get them to mate?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:57, 22 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :: Tried this out - 3 years in and not even lovers yet. Ick. So, here's the problem: you really want two dwarves who won't start as friends with many other people (although each other is ok), and who can handle stress and aren't quick to anger. Because of course your first hurdle is going to be surviving the unhappiness generated by killing off everyone else. (You may just want to build some coffins early just in case). Unfortunately, the embark screen view mode won't let you see who they're friends with before embarking, so if you want to assign just two of them skills you're making guesses based solely on their personality traits as two which dwarves will be compatible and likely to survive the initial culling. After that you then need to reduce your job queue to almost nothing and basically lock them in the same room together so they spend their time talking - because you've already chosen otherwise self-reliant and anti-social dwarves. <br /> <br /> ::Some evidence on the Relationships talk page suggests giving some social skills to your dwarves may increase the rate at which they progress to friends/lovers.<br /> <br /> ::My first attempt was a Carpenter 5/Cook 5 and a Mason 5/Grower 5... I might have to revise that to Mason 5/Grower 3/Something social 2 and Carpenter 4/Cook 4/something social 2 - but carpenter and mason are going to be important for generating happy thoughts.<br /> <br /> ::Apparently setting the .init file to a max of 2 dwarves doesn't stop immigrants from coming - which is annoying because I really don't want to keep killing them off, and they keep stealing my moods. (Yes, i put a stone stockpile outside so the immigrants can build their own deathtrap over the lava vent). I do recommend playing on an island so you only have to deal with not going outside for the dwarf caravan each year. And the liaison will happily join your migrants on the death trap if you make it a meeting area.<br /> <br /> ::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:18, 23 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::It's all a matter of compatibility. Dwarves actually don't start out friends, they just make them almost instantly at the start (and can make grudges here, too. I had one who had a very low sense of adventure while everyone else had high, and five of the seven had grudges with her.) To become lovers and get married requires a very, very high compatibility--whatever that means. It seems that some dwarves never upgrade from lovers to married, either, perhaps due to being not compatible enough, but being faced with a lack of programming to handle breakups. (I'll leave that one to the playwrights.) Getting this challenge to work is probably more than half the challenge! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 11:29, 23 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::Do social skills make dwarves more likely to make friends, or does being friendly make dwarves more likely to gain social skills? Instead of focusing on social skills, you might need to pick dwarves with a lot of friendly traits (or even compatible traits, like Navian suggests). You can check their personalities before setting out -- if you don't see compatible traits, scrap it and start building another party.<br /> <br /> :::For happiness, build several native gold (i.e., masonry) statues and put them in their bedrooms -- that will dwarf (ahem) the bonus you will get from the bed itself being high-quality. You can potentially skip carpentry altogether.<br /> <br /> :::For them to actually form a relationship, you might need to give them idle time, during which they will socialize. <br /> <br /> :::To keep other dwarves away, you could try putting a moat around the entire perimeter of the map (better still, a magma moat). This worked with the 2D version, but with finite quantities of fluid in the 3D version, it might not work anymore. But if you do want to try, put a wall as close to the edge of the map as it allows you, and flood everything outside it. Have the sacrificial five (and all immigrants) work on that.<br /> <br /> :::Supposedly you won't get moods at all in a fortress with less than 20 dwarves. You also won't get moods if you haven't produced enough goods or revealed enough tiles through mining (see [[strange mood]]).--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:30, 23 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Noblesse requis==<br /> <br /> Build your fortress to please the sick, twisted, evil nobles needs. Build a execution chamber for your rowdy dwarves and build a torture chamber for your dungeon master, using your imagination! Use this to punish pathetic dwarves who dare rebel. Build palaces for your nobles and pamper them in every way. Pour most of your resources into a beautiful place for nobles to live whilst letting your dwarves sleep in tiny, pathetic rooms. The only exception is your mayor, who rises from the rank of the disgusting peons. He must live in squalor as well, preferably next to noble rooms to so the nobles can taunt him. score yourself according to how happy your nobles are, and your worth. Evil. And fun! can I add this to the main page? --[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 03:04, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Sure &amp;ndash; it's a wiki, after all. You can edit the pages yourself!<br /> :Also, is that really what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noblesse_oblige Noblesse/noblis oblige] means? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:55, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Nope, just sounds good. I was hoping nobody would look it up. Maybe I'll change the name. Also, I'm new to wikis in general so I don't really know how everything works, desipte making this profile about a year ago. Thanks!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:26, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> :::Okay, changed it to Noble demand. Thanks!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:30, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Magma/Lava Waterfall ==<br /> <br /> Would creating a sustainable magmafall, or one that can be triggered as part of a defense system, be considered a challenge? Or is it more of a Stupid Dwarf Trick? I'm just curious because one has to take into account building the thing, making sure it won't set your dwarves on fire, and where to put the excess magma/lava since you can't really just pump it back into the magma pipe without some sort of massive and elaborate pump system. (Oh wow, I feel stupid. I created a new subject and forgot to sign it for at least two days.) --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:26, 10 January 2009 (EST)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Refined_coal&diff=28453 2009-01-11T01:25:55Z

<p>Alkyon: Coke/Charcoal constructions + Magma = Permanent fire?</p> <hr /> <div>Maybe the articles on charcoal and coke should be merged with this page on fuel since all three pages basically say the same thing. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 18:00, 22 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Starting things off ==<br /> <br /> Somehow this needs to be adjusted to show that to kick start your smelter you need some coal... or is there some other way of getting from bituminous coal to coke? fan I use some other furnace to get started? (I have plenty of wood, &quot;rock&quot; and bituminous coal but no &quot;coal&quot; or magma).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:27, 8 January 2008 (EST)<br /> :it already says &quot;(fuel will be needed to power this at a normal smelter)&quot; for the bituminous coal to coke reaction in the article. turn that wood into charcoal and use it to turn the bituminous coal to coke [[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 21:55, 8 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::All right... someone at a different page said I needed '''coal''' and I couldn't find &quot;just coal&quot; mentioned ANYWHERE, hence my confusion.<br /> ::So I need to &quot;process&quot; wood to get &quot;charcoal&quot;. Will see how I go, thanks.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:18, 9 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Is wood burning a skill? ==<br /> <br /> I cant seem to find it on the [[skill]] page. Either that or this one should be changed<br /> :Wood Burner at the bottom of the Farmer section. It's there :) --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 18:02, 8 January 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Oops, my bad. Sorry --[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 17:53, 9 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Block template ==<br /> <br /> Over at [[Lignite]] there is a pretty little box which looks like:<br /> {{Stone|name=Lignite|tile=*|color=#888<br /> |uses =<br /> * 2 [[coke]] at [[smelter]]<br /> |location =<br /> * [[Sedimentary layer]]s<br /> * Found as veins<br /> |properties =<br /> * Can [[ignite]]<br /> * [[Economic stone]]<br /> * [[Material value]] 1}}<br /> <br /> It would be nice if there was one here too.<br /> <br /> Secondly, what I would like to do on [[Lignite]] and [[Bituminous coal]] is have a pictorial formula which says:<br /> l [[lignite]] + 1 [[coal]] = 2 [[coke]]<br /> ( it would be like :<br /> {{key|l}}{{key|l}} + {{key|c}} = {{key|a}} but with pictures of the tiles instead of letters)<br /> <br /> but I don't know how to do the tiles for lignite / coal / coke / charcoal.<br /> [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Coke/Charcoal constructions + Magma = Permanent fire? ==<br /> <br /> I always wondered if making a magma cistern out of Coke would create a massive, but permanent fire. The reasoning would be that coal burns in any form, magma is hot, but constructions are permanent and not destroyed by magma. In a failed attempt to create a permanent magma waterfall, some magma touched my coke road (I had no iron, but magma and plenty of bitimous coal, so I thought &quot;why not?&quot;). The road is now on fire, but I do not know if it will be permanent as my remaining dwarves will perish by the end of the season by leftover fire/lava, starvation/drought or depression, so I have to ask if anyone knows if coal constructions will ever disappear. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:25, 10 January 2009 (EST)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Challenges&diff=22558 2009-01-09T17:22:48Z

<p>Alkyon: Magma/Lava Waterfall</p> <hr /> <div>==Colorful==<br /> This is an idea I got by reading trough all the challenges, what if you make it a goal to have the fortress in the colour of the rainbow. (Example, 80x80 tile fortress, first 10 tiles are red, second 10 tiles are brown-orange, the third 10 are yellow and go on) --[[User:G1real|G1real]] 08:43, 27 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Sparta==<br /> &quot;You shouldn't create chainmail or plate armour.&quot;<br /> &lt;br&gt;why? --Savok <br /> :because spartans don't wear chest armor. you should definately watch 300, it's like Dwarf Fortress on crack! --AlexFili <br /> ::from what I've read, 300 isn't an accurate depiction of Spartan life. However, this challenge build is based on 300 --Savok<br /> :::Alright, fair point, 300 was based from a graphic novel, but many similarities between Spartans in 300 and in real history are present. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 10:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT) <br /> ::::&quot;However, this challenge build is based on 300&quot; No it isn't. At least, it wasn't intended to be. I guess I shouldn't have referred to pop culture when I added it. --juckto<br /> :::::The hell with it. Split off spartans from 300. [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 16:55, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Not only did Spartans use chest armour (although in the form of bronze muscel cuirasses), but it was illegal and finable to fight without your armour. Theres one story of a Prince praying in Temple when some enemies attacked, he ran out naked and killed them, the Oligarchs awarded and praised him with one hand and then fined him with the other. Further specific Spartan attributes, the largely did not wear sandals except during war (don't want your feet to be soft and flabby, gotta make them rock-proof), Sparta itself didn't rely on walls (although they did use them [notably at the battle of the Hot Gates to keep the Persians from landing south of the gates] and the city did eventually make some). Theres also the complicated issue of their government, not sure how to replicate that, dual monarchy with the Kings having no real governmental powers and an oligarchy ruling at home. Maybe having a Legendary warrior lead each of two squads and having every position (Book Keeper, Mayor, Captain of the Guard even maybe) filled by a useless fat rich guy in a nice shiny house. I should also point out alot of their generals and kings were known for a love of gold and that 50% of the population being in the military is not very accurate, actual Spartan soldiers were vastly outnumbered by the Helots. --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> ==No mining==<br /> Now that you construct walls and fortifications out of wood, I wonder if anyone is going to take on a 'no mining' challenge? You're going to need a ''lot'' of wood! --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 17:00, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Some people already are :p --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:44, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::I'm running a game with Elves as the playable civilization, a challenge on its own--The Forest Retreat of Inalamina is well into its ninth year, with a population of 220, and this is without mining ''or'' cutting down any trees. It's defended entirely by spearmen, swordsmen, and wrestlers, and the nobles/admins and wounded elves live happily in tree forts and lean-tos! Worth adding, maybe? I'd even consider writing an article for it... --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:23, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::: I am completely enthralled. I'd love to see it written up. Screenshots, the whole thing. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:37, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> <br /> ::Oh, you mean for the game I'm running itself? I'd love to, but I can't seem to find what the rules for that are and I don't want to step on any toes by randomly creating a page. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:48, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::: Either for the game itself, or a general essay sorta thing on the challenges and solutions for that kind of gameplay. As for the [[rules]], I don't know what you're talking about exactly. A wiki is a kind of anarchistic democracy. If you think it's worth putting up, you are free to put it up. If someone wants to take it down, they're free to do that too. &lt;small&gt;&amp;ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]]&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> :::Put the writeup on your userpage, and if it can be broadened into something else, we'll move it into the mainspace.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:09, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Assassination==<br /> I tried &quot;Assassination&quot; the other day and found that it was incredibly easy with a group of axedwarves. Not only did I kill the hardest-to-get-at goblin, I killed every last other goblin too. In the end, there were only 2 dogs and 2 dwarves dead (the last one fell, sadly, to the last goblin left, who was hiding in the tunnels.--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 22:51, 15 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Now do it with 7 untrained dwarves with no armor. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 19:30, 29 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::Mwa ha ha ha!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:38, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Humanlike? ==<br /> It should be noted that the 'human-like fortress' as described is historically inaccurate. In particular, its either misrepresenting or confusing various details. One major point is that a _castle_ never incorporated a town. There are walled towns and there are castles, but these are entirely different things. A couple of historical periods/styles would lead to the following different suggestions:<br /> <br /> (A) Larger (stone) medieval castles sometimes had industry in the bailey. This was often pressed up against the outer wall to save on space and wall building. It was usually militarily useful industry (ie, metalsmithing of various types). Cooking and possibly brewing might also happen, and cooking at least would have been handled in the keep itself. Industries including jewelry, carpentry (on a permanent basis), and other non-military production would have been outside the castle, quite possibly in a town nearby. <br /> <br /> (B) More isolated smaller castles would have done necessary production in the bailey on a temporary basis (ie, erecting a carpentry work area when needed and disassembling it afterwards), with a few permanent industries (notably blacksmithing).<br /> <br /> (C) 'Dark Ages' castles would be made of wood, and weren't large enough to accomodate much industry. Instead they would have imported everything. The early castle was a defensible home for the lord and his family, and would only house them and a few military retainers.<br /> <br /> It should be noted that the lack of focus on industry in a castle meant diverse tasks might share the same workspace and in fact be handled by the same person. The purpose of a castle is military, not production, and castle's only produced goods for internal demand that either could not be imported, would be inconvenient to import, or were critical to the military purpose (and couldn't afford access to those goods being lost during a siege).<br /> <br /> (D) A walled town would have no keep. Nobles would not live there. Basically, towns would build a wall around their perimeter for defense. More important towns often grew to encompass nearby castles, and often outgrew their walls - which might either lead to substantial portions beyond the walls or accruing walls occasionally to encompass new growth. Despite a castle potentially being encompassed by a town, the castle and town were administratively separate - towns receiving independent charters from the crown - and the town was never subject to the lord of the castle (who may well control the surrounding countryside).<br /> <br /> Given the nature of Dwarf Fortress, treating it as a town rather than a castle is probably preferable unless you really want to emphasize military skills, which could be interesting. You could, of course, create a castle and a town, keeping them as virtually separate entities, with military dwarves and nobles living in the castle and other dwarves living in the town.<br /> <br /> --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:11, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :When did we start trying to make DF fit real-world history?<br /> :His idea seems perfectly fine when compared to in-game human towns/cities, as they have a keep and whatnot as part of the city. Only difference is adding a wall around it all. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:25, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Insane Renegade (just a thought) ==<br /> <br /> Well I was thinking something along these lines,<br /> <br /> They all think that your crazy, so you and some others ran. You shouldn't trust them... They want you dead. Except for the (random profession/job) they think like you. KILL THEM KILL ALL THAT OPPOSE YOU!!,<br /> <br /> Description:<br /> Xenophobia, Do not trade with others, Kill all immigrants except ones of a certain job/profession. If you want to go as a truly insane person, ban all statues and engravings of Dwarven faces (the statues, THE ROCKS! THEY ALL WANT ME DEAD!!!!) Be prepared for a long life of hatred and sieges.<br /> <br /> P.S. if anyone edits this and puts it on the main thing please give me partial credit... Thank you and goodnight! &lt;small&gt;&amp;ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:LrZeph|LrZeph]]&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> :How is this different from [[Challenges#Outcast|Outcast]], aside from the RP? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:41, 22 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Oh dear, i missed that one. never mind &lt;small&gt;&amp;ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:LrZeph|LrZeph]]&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> == Dystopian society ==<br /> <br /> Anyone thought of making a fortress based off one of those dystopian futures found in scifi novels like 1984, We, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451? The way I imagine it, it would be similar to the Equaland challenge, with variations based on the dystopian principle of your choice. For example, if you want to encourage uniformity across your population, enable all labor for every dwarf and persecute anyone who skills up too quickly at a given skill. A strict caste system might also be implementable, a la Brave New World. Another idea would be to kill off or at least &quot;re-educate&quot; any dwarf that falls below ecstatic for an extended period of time. Tons of ideas at {{wiki|Dystopia}}. Thoughts? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :That sounds like a good challenge. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:24, 24 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Underwater Building ==<br /> <br /> I've decided to take on the underwater building challenge, and have started Migrurmestthos, The Ocean-Citadel. But ah... I can't for the live of me figure out how I'm going to get glass blocks to the bottom of the ocean. Any ideas? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 20:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT)&lt;br&gt;<br /> ''P.S.: I've altered the creature tokens and set my Dwarves to Aquatic.''<br /> <br /> :I recommend either<br /> :#Don't build it in the ocean.<br /> :#Use pumping to pump a large area of the top level of the ocean out. Do the same with a slightly smaller area one level down. Repeat as desired.<br /> :#Pump the ocean out, build, then let it flow back in. This is like the above, but with the whole visible ocean. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:45, 20 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::Oookay, okay. I have single-handedly diverted the courses of raging rapids to give my children something to drink, harnessed the power of lava, and built towers of glass. However, I cannot help but approach the idea of pumping out '''the entire ocean''' with a bit of skepticism. Is this ''really'' possible? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 22:53, 21 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::Aye, it is. Aside from waves, the &quot;entire&quot; ocean is really, due to map limitations, just a large, fast-refilling lake. If you build a ring of pumps properly, you should be able to clear the water from a section, which can be as large as your fortress map. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 02:34, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: I've personally been using 'canals' in my fortress for quite a while, and what I do is simply allocate nobles' rooms along the side of the canal, and before flooding the waterway, I dig into it and build glass windows and blocks so the nobles can watch the fish swim by. I doubt it actually raises the room value by any more than the glass windows' base value, but I like the effect. This isn't really an &quot;underwater city&quot; per se, but it's born of the same concept. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 07:45, 26 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Check out [[User:Squirrelloid/Under the Sea]], then note that I haven't quite tested any of the possible methods yet. I'm about ready to turn on the magma tap and see if I can create an obsidian stalagmite with successive bursts of magma followed by channelling - that may provide a way to build stairs down through and assemble a mass pump appartus - yes, this is going to be a lot of work. Its took 6 years of game time to get to the point where I was ready and able to do a trial run - admittedly, it wasn't the only thing I was focused on. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:28, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Dwarf Factory ==<br /> <br /> --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:12, 28 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> Looking to develop this callenge concept:<br /> <br /> Your fortress is a highly specialized industrial complex. Select one item, or very narrow category of items. (ie Flour, Scepters, Shoes, Silk Bags, Crossbow Bolts) This is your factory's product. You must produce as much of it as possible, and it may only be used for export to any any and all caravans which visit your factory. Set up shift schedules, assign massive teams of dwarves (or even all of them!) to your core product, and generally devote your fort to maximizing output. <br /> <br /> Variants: &lt;br /&gt;<br /> Assembly line - Each Dwarf is assigned a single stage of the production cycle, this is their only labour. Workshops should be grouped togeather by type, ordered based on the production cycle and grouped with relevant stockpiles.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Communal - Every Dwarf has every relevant labour enabled, in addition to whatever else they do for the fort.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> High Management - For each Task in your production, appoint a department head. As the number of workers in each department grows, start appointing shift managers. As your factory expands in size, appoint reigonal coordinators and quality control bureaus. Cap this off with a board of directors and a CEO. None of these dwarves do anything but fill noble slots and build social skills.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Prison/Work Camp - Noble dwarves do not contribute to labour. Max the fortress/royal Guard at all times and draft 20% of the population into the army. The remaining dwarves are prisoners who must produce output. Build walls, rig traps, and make an example of anyone who fails to meet their quota.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> People's Glorious Five-Year Plan - As above, but arrive with no skilled workers, rig all facilities with self destructs and kill switches, and only arm one in ten of your soldiers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br /> <br /> Bonus: Only produce things vital to the survival of your workers, or directly involved in making your product. Anything else must be imported.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Further Bonus: Produce only your final product, all raw materials must be imported. spend the surplus on anything else you may need.<br /> <br /> How's it sound?<br /> <br /> == Luxurious Tomb ==<br /> <br /> Build an extravagant mausoleum for your entire dwarf community. Make it multi-leveled, make it a pyramid, make it out of glass if you want - but it must serve no other purpose than to be a dying place, and must not be accessed for any purpose other than to build it. Add a few decorations here and there, statues, tables, and a whole lot of coffins to house everyone.<br /> <br /> Once it's complete, turn your fortress into a ghost town. Remove the designation of all your stockpiles. Forbid all the workshops and forbid access to the different areas of the fort as they get deserted to limit dwarf movement. Lure everyone into the tomb, seal the entrance from the inside and watch everyone die inside their new mausoleum. The tomb should be designed such that the initial entry point cannot easily be guessed (i.e.: The entrance should be sealed using a wall or some other solid structure - not via a door you just mark forbidden.<br /> <br /> BONUS: make access to the tomb difficult or impossible, either by causing a cave-in in the tunnel that leads towards it, or by flooding the surrounding area in water or magma.<br /> <br /> BONUS #2: Build the tomb over a chasm. Find a way to drop the whole tomb-building into it once everyone's inside.<br /> <br /> :Suggestion: DON'T build it over a chasm; build it over a very large pit (deep enough to be called a 'chasm' by some) and make a set of ramps that lead down to the bottom. 1x2 setup; that is:<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ..<br /> That is, up ramps, turn on normal flooring, then continue back up in the opposite direction. So a dwarf would travel in this path:<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> &gt;^<br /> :They'd come down the left ramp, turn left twice, and go down via the right ramp. Then they'd take two more lefts, and go down the left ramp, etc..<br /> :Just a neat little suggestion that's way too complicated, but'd look nice...also, {{k|V}} is a ramp; {{k|^}} is not.<br /> :I can't wait to try this out, then watch the temple I build go down, down, down, and '''SMASH'''--then use the ramps alongside it to view (and plunder, of course--it IS a tomb in adventure mode) it.<br /> :Oh, and just a Z-level view:<br /> | / <br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> |/<br /> |\<br /> | \<br /> | \<br /> | \<br /> :Or:<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> |/___<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> |/___<br /> :Etc.. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 23:45, 25 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Agoraphobia ==<br /> <br /> Your dwarves are absolutely terrified of the great outdoors, ([[carp|and]] [[Elephant|with]] [[Giant eagle|good]] [[undead|reason]] and want nothing more than to be nestled tightly in the &quot;[[Giant Cave Spider|relative]] [[Pit|saftey]]&quot; of the underground. Upon arrival, immediately burrow into the ground and haul all your supplies out of the sun's glare, and then never set foot on the surface again. Also, to help reduce anxiety, have no single chamber larger than 5x5, and let no hall stretch farther than 5 tiles between doors.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 11:42, 15 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == &lt;insert material&gt; Fort....wait, what? ==<br /> <br /> Ok, now I can understand a glass fort...and I can understand making it all outside, but how does one build it under water? Can someone please tell me how to do this so I can try to create my own Dwarven SeaLab? [[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 05:58, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :I believe its either done via pump rings (enough screw pumps can hollow out sections of the ocean long enough to build something to hold the water back), or in a cold enough seasonal environment, only doing construction during the winter. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:44, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :: The third option would be building the fort, and then making a lake around it. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 08:51, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::The real trick with building enough screw pumps is in water deeper than 1 z-level you need to find a way to build down - you cannot hang down staircases off sides like you can up staircases. I'm attempting to pump magma to form an obsidian sheen - tunnel down through it and channel a hole, pump more magma, and so on. I'll let people know how it works... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::So I've heard. Have you tried just carving a staircase along the underwater cliff on your game? I hope to see, or at least hear, the results of your work. As for me, I'm trying this challenge the other way around: Turn a hilly desert map into a massive glass aquarium, with my dwarves living the good life inside. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 13:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::::Well, my goal was to build a free-standing structure in 15 z-levels of water, so yes, if there is a convenient cliff it works, but that limits you to cliffs which start 1 z-level below water. As all my really deep water areas aren't even close to being accessible in that way, its not even an option. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:34, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::::To me, the solution that comes to mind is to place a weapon rack on a narrow causeway and get recruits to wrestle until one punts another into the abyss. The lucky winner gets to build the up staircase. Getting materials below is easy, you can just build something and deconstruct it, among other more elaborate means. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::::That only works if its only 2 z-levels down, because otherwise the dwarf falls into deeper water and drowns... and as 2 z-levels is boring... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:34, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Genesis==<br /> Kill all but two of your starting dwarves off (one male and one female). Seal them in your fortress (no trading). Repopulate the earth. Measure of success is based on number of children before the fortress dies. Thoughts?<br /> --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:12, 22 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :How reliably can you get them to mate?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:57, 22 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :: Tried this out - 3 years in and not even lovers yet. Ick. So, here's the problem: you really want two dwarves who won't start as friends with many other people (although each other is ok), and who can handle stress and aren't quick to anger. Because of course your first hurdle is going to be surviving the unhappiness generated by killing off everyone else. (You may just want to build some coffins early just in case). Unfortunately, the embark screen view mode won't let you see who they're friends with before embarking, so if you want to assign just two of them skills you're making guesses based solely on their personality traits as two which dwarves will be compatible and likely to survive the initial culling. After that you then need to reduce your job queue to almost nothing and basically lock them in the same room together so they spend their time talking - because you've already chosen otherwise self-reliant and anti-social dwarves. <br /> <br /> ::Some evidence on the Relationships talk page suggests giving some social skills to your dwarves may increase the rate at which they progress to friends/lovers.<br /> <br /> ::My first attempt was a Carpenter 5/Cook 5 and a Mason 5/Grower 5... I might have to revise that to Mason 5/Grower 3/Something social 2 and Carpenter 4/Cook 4/something social 2 - but carpenter and mason are going to be important for generating happy thoughts.<br /> <br /> ::Apparently setting the .init file to a max of 2 dwarves doesn't stop immigrants from coming - which is annoying because I really don't want to keep killing them off, and they keep stealing my moods. (Yes, i put a stone stockpile outside so the immigrants can build their own deathtrap over the lava vent). I do recommend playing on an island so you only have to deal with not going outside for the dwarf caravan each year. And the liaison will happily join your migrants on the death trap if you make it a meeting area.<br /> <br /> ::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:18, 23 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::It's all a matter of compatibility. Dwarves actually don't start out friends, they just make them almost instantly at the start (and can make grudges here, too. I had one who had a very low sense of adventure while everyone else had high, and five of the seven had grudges with her.) To become lovers and get married requires a very, very high compatibility--whatever that means. It seems that some dwarves never upgrade from lovers to married, either, perhaps due to being not compatible enough, but being faced with a lack of programming to handle breakups. (I'll leave that one to the playwrights.) Getting this challenge to work is probably more than half the challenge! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 11:29, 23 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::Do social skills make dwarves more likely to make friends, or does being friendly make dwarves more likely to gain social skills? Instead of focusing on social skills, you might need to pick dwarves with a lot of friendly traits (or even compatible traits, like Navian suggests). You can check their personalities before setting out -- if you don't see compatible traits, scrap it and start building another party.<br /> <br /> :::For happiness, build several native gold (i.e., masonry) statues and put them in their bedrooms -- that will dwarf (ahem) the bonus you will get from the bed itself being high-quality. You can potentially skip carpentry altogether.<br /> <br /> :::For them to actually form a relationship, you might need to give them idle time, during which they will socialize. <br /> <br /> :::To keep other dwarves away, you could try putting a moat around the entire perimeter of the map (better still, a magma moat). This worked with the 2D version, but with finite quantities of fluid in the 3D version, it might not work anymore. But if you do want to try, put a wall as close to the edge of the map as it allows you, and flood everything outside it. Have the sacrificial five (and all immigrants) work on that.<br /> <br /> :::Supposedly you won't get moods at all in a fortress with less than 20 dwarves. You also won't get moods if you haven't produced enough goods or revealed enough tiles through mining (see [[strange mood]]).--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:30, 23 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Noblesse requiro==<br /> <br /> Build your fortress to please the sick, twisted, evil nobles needs. Build a execution chamber for your rowdy dwarves and build a torture chamber for your dungeon master, using your imagination! Use this to punish pathetic dwarves who dare rebel. Build palaces for your nobles and pamper them in every way. Pour most of your resources into a beautiful place for nobles to live whilst letting your dwarves sleep in tiny, pathetic rooms. The only exception is your mayor, who rises from the rank of the disgusting peons. He must live in squalor as well, preferably next to noble rooms to so the nobles can taunt him. score yourself according to how happy your nobles are, and your worth. Evil. And fun! can I add this to the main page? --[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 03:04, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Sure &amp;ndash; it's a wiki, after all. You can edit the pages yourself!<br /> :Also, is that really what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noblesse_oblige Noblesse/noblis oblige] means? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:55, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Nope, just sounds good. I was hoping nobody would look it up. Maybe I'll change the name. Also, I'm new to wikis in general so I don't really know how everything works, desipte making this profile about a year ago. Thanks!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:26, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> :::Okay, changed it to Noble demand. Thanks!--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 18:30, 11 December 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Magma/Lava Waterfall ==<br /> <br /> Would creating a sustainable magmafall, or one that can be triggered as part of a defense system, be considered a challenge? Or is it more of a Stupid Dwarf Trick? I'm just curious because one has to take into account building the thing, making sure it won't set your dwarves on fire, and where to put the excess magma/lava since you can't really just pump it back into the magma pipe without some sort of massive and elaborate pump system.</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Gem&diff=23013 2008-12-03T18:24:29Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Game vs. Real Gem Locations */</p> <hr /> <div>So... What's the difference between large gems and cut gems? [[User:Xaque|Xaque]] 09:42, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br /> :Large gems are a &quot;finished produce.&quot; Cut gems are used to decorate stuff [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:12, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br /> ::So how do I make large gems for a mandate? All the ones I have cut just end up ordinary sized (no label). [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 04:45, 3 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::Ok there is a small percentage chance that a gem will be cut into a large gem. Had to cut some 20+ gems to fill my mandate. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 06:12, 3 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::You make large gems by having a legendary gem cutter try several times. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 00:00, 11 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> most of the gems have specific environments, but it would be a huge pain to organize it [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:12, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> Toady One said under such metals as [[Bismuth bronze]] that he was trying to avoid using names specific to real-world places. I see several gems where he wasn't able to avoid it. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 23:10, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Glass bar ==<br /> :''However, this appears to requires a Glass Bar, which is not possible to create at the current time.''<br /> I'll have to double check this when I get back to the machine with dwarf fortress on it - but I seem to recall being able to make 'raw glass' which made a glass block.<br /> I would also suggest changing the redirect for glass to gem - there is a significant amount of material that is unique to glass that is not appropriate for gems in general. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 03:22, 10 November 2007 (EST)<br /> ::Can't make glass bars. You can make raw glass which comes out as a rough gem, or you can make glass blocks. Glass blocks are not gems and one cannot become the other. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 00:00, 11 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Availability ==<br /> Alright, during my hours of game play, I've found out that depth(in z-levels) and the maximum rarity/value of available gems within the current layer are connected. The deeper you dig, the more valuable gems you'll find. However... With modding I've discovered that it's impossible to find very valuable metamorphic, sedimentary and igneous extrusive only gems. Since those layers never reach the necessary depth. It also means that more valuable metamorphic, sedimentary and igneous extrusive only gems are a lot more rarer than their igneous intrusive counter parts. Could anyone conform this? [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 13:29, 20 November 2007 (EST)<br /> :Whoops! I messed up the layers! Fixed it. Oh, and the rarity of a gem seems to be dependent on it's value. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 08:58, 21 November 2007 (EST)<br /> :Have you tried maps with steep cliffs? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:37, 21 November 2007 (EST)<br /> ::I haven't run tests on steeper than 4 Z-level cliffs, but from what I gather, the maximum rarity of gems available at the any given depth is calculated based on the relative depth not absolute depth. Meaning that, wherever you are, you need to dig the same amount of Z-levels to reach any specific rarity of gems. It's the same as stone layers. If there's a cliff within a biome, then the underlaying layers will begin at a higher Z-level below the cliff, depending on high the cliff is. I hope, that I'm not too confusing here... [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 08:38, 22 November 2007 (EST)<br /> :::I suspect it may work by the listed depth. The number that shows up when you loo{{k|k}} at a tile, which refers how many levels you would need to count directly upward to reach the surface. On a severe cliff map you can easily have a &quot;depth&quot; of 15+ among the sedimentary layers. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:36, 23 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::: Once I found a star sapphire(?) quite shallow within the mountain, I found it when I was building my prison so I only had about 70 Dorfs at the time, bug or luck? [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 08:30, 10 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Rock crystal ==<br /> <br /> Can anyone confirm that this gem can be found in this version? In what stone layers/at what depth did you find one? It's material value should better be like that of a diamond because raw crystal glass is needed for moods from time to time.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:38, 22 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> According to forum, people have round it [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]] 12:24, 23 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Redirects ==<br /> <br /> There should be a redirect for each gem type to the subsection containing that gem. For example, I just created [[Heliodor]] as &lt;nowiki&gt;#REDIRECT [[Gem#Semi-Precious]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. IMO, any game item should go straight from the search box to the most relevant article: that is what redirects do.<br /> So &lt;s&gt;if&lt;/s&gt; when a whole slew of redirects show up linking here... yeah, ididit.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:55, 11 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == What the various gems look like in real life ==<br /> <br /> I got bored one afternoon and put together a website with pictures of most of the various gems listed in the game. It is located at [http://www.geocities.com/dwarven.gemologist]<br /> --[[User:Dwarven Gemologist|Gemmy]] 16:04, 14 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :&lt;nowiki&gt;http://www.geocities.com/dwarven.gemologist/gems.html&lt;/nowiki&gt;<br /> :&quot;Sorry, the page you requested was not found.&quot; --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:00, 14 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> Wow, I thought after ten years of building websites that I would automatically double check my links. It's fixed now. --[[User:Dwarven Gemologist|Gemmy]] 01:05, 17 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Organization==<br /> Is there any reason the page is organized as it is? Wouldn't it make more sense to sort gems alphabetically within rarity categories? Or at least group similar gems (ie, Opals, etc...) within rarity categories? Because the current layout is not useful for locating particular gems. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:02, 25 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> You're right. You should go and organize it.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 01:11, 25 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == quality ==<br /> <br /> can gem cuts get quality modifiers?<br /> :no, but normal rough gems will occasionally be cut into a large gem- the item does get a quality modifier. (and that is usually how legendary gem cutters are born)<br /> <br /> == moonstone ==<br /> <br /> isn't a gem unless some new version was released<br /> :Yep, it is a gem. I can post a screencap if needed. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 21:16, 9 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :: I found it t0o... I'll see if I can add the info. [[User:Zara|Zara]] 11:45, 10 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{game Data|<br /> [MATGLOSS_STONE:MOONSTONE]<br /> <br /> [VALUE:2][COLOR:7:7:1][TILE:15][GEM:moonstone:STP]<br /> <br /> [ENVIRONMENT:METAMORPHIC:CLUSTER_SMALL:100]}}[[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:25, 12 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Game vs. Real Gem Locations ==<br /> <br /> Am I the only one getting annoyed at some of the bizarre decisions made by Toady One with respect to gems? Rubies and Sapphires are both produced in igneous rock, although generally mined from placer deposits because they are sparsely distributed. Ruby forms in extrusive igneous, typically basalt. Why they are found in Bauxite in the game I can't even begin to fathom, especially as Bauxite is only notable as an *aluminum* ore (although not within the technology level of the game). Placer deposits should be gravels or the sedimentary compressions thereof (probably sand and/or sandstone in the game, although that's not quite right because the game doesn't handle riverine deposits at all - or we should have dwarves able to pan for gold/gems).<br /> <br /> And diamonds igniting when contacting magma is really funny considering Kimberlite is cooled magma that brought the diamonds up from the lower mantle.<br /> <br /> --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:14, 3 December 2008 (EST)<br /> :I don't know enough geology to say anything about the Rubies and Sapphires, but the Diamonds catching fire does actually make sense. Diamonds are nothing but pure carbon, add a bit of oxygen and a good deal of heat and soon nothing will be left. The Diamonds form slowly as the magma cools into Kimberlite, and the reason they don't combust when surrouned by warm stone is due to the lack of oxygen for the carbon to bond with and the massive pressure. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 13:24, 3 December 2008 (EST)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Challenges&diff=22540 2008-11-19T18:41:01Z

<p>Alkyon: /* &lt;insert material&gt; Fort....wait, what? */</p> <hr /> <div>==Colorful==<br /> This is an idea I got by reading trough all the challenges, what if you make it a goal to have the fortress in the colour of the rainbow. (Example, 80x80 tile fortress, first 10 tiles are red, second 10 tiles are brown-orange, the third 10 are yellow and go on) --[[User:G1real|G1real]] 08:43, 27 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Sparta==<br /> &quot;You shouldn't create chainmail or plate armour.&quot;<br /> &lt;br&gt;why? --Savok <br /> :because spartans don't wear chest armor. you should definately watch 300, it's like Dwarf Fortress on crack! --AlexFili <br /> ::from what I've read, 300 isn't an accurate depiction of Spartan life. However, this challenge build is based on 300 --Savok<br /> :::Alright, fair point, 300 was based from a graphic novel, but many similarities between Spartans in 300 and in real history are present. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 10:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT) <br /> ::::&quot;However, this challenge build is based on 300&quot; No it isn't. At least, it wasn't intended to be. I guess I shouldn't have referred to pop culture when I added it. --juckto<br /> :::::The hell with it. Split off spartans from 300. [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 16:55, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Not only did Spartans use chest armour (although in the form of bronze muscel cuirasses), but it was illegal and finable to fight without your armour. Theres one story of a Prince praying in Temple when some enemies attacked, he ran out naked and killed them, the Oligarchs awarded and praised him with one hand and then fined him with the other. Further specific Spartan attributes, the largely did not wear sandals except during war (don't want your feet to be soft and flabby, gotta make them rock-proof), Sparta itself didn't rely on walls (although they did use them [notably at the battle of the Hot Gates to keep the Persians from landing south of the gates] and the city did eventually make some). Theres also the complicated issue of their government, not sure how to replicate that, dual monarchy with the Kings having no real governmental powers and an oligarchy ruling at home. Maybe having a Legendary warrior lead each of two squads and having every position (Book Keeper, Mayor, Captain of the Guard even maybe) filled by a useless fat rich guy in a nice shiny house. I should also point out alot of their generals and kings were known for a love of gold and that 50% of the population being in the military is not very accurate, actual Spartan soldiers were vastly outnumbered by the Helots. --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> ==No mining==<br /> Now that you construct walls and fortifications out of wood, I wonder if anyone is going to take on a 'no mining' challenge? You're going to need a ''lot'' of wood! --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 17:00, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Some people already are :p --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:44, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::I'm running a game with Elves as the playable civilization, a challenge on its own--The Forest Retreat of Inalamina is well into its ninth year, with a population of 220, and this is without mining ''or'' cutting down any trees. It's defended entirely by spearmen, swordsmen, and wrestlers, and the nobles/admins and wounded elves live happily in tree forts and lean-tos! Worth adding, maybe? I'd even consider writing an article for it... --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:23, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::: I am completely enthralled. I'd love to see it written up. Screenshots, the whole thing. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:37, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> <br /> ::Oh, you mean for the game I'm running itself? I'd love to, but I can't seem to find what the rules for that are and I don't want to step on any toes by randomly creating a page. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 10:48, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::: Either for the game itself, or a general essay sorta thing on the challenges and solutions for that kind of gameplay. As for the [[rules]], I don't know what you're talking about exactly. A wiki is a kind of anarchistic democracy. If you think it's worth putting up, you are free to put it up. If someone wants to take it down, they're free to do that too. &lt;small&gt;&amp;ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]]&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> :::Put the writeup on your userpage, and if it can be broadened into something else, we'll move it into the mainspace.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:09, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Assassination==<br /> I tried &quot;Assassination&quot; the other day and found that it was incredibly easy with a group of axedwarves. Not only did I kill the hardest-to-get-at goblin, I killed every last other goblin too. In the end, there were only 2 dogs and 2 dwarves dead (the last one fell, sadly, to the last goblin left, who was hiding in the tunnels.--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 22:51, 15 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Now do it with 7 untrained dwarves with no armor. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 19:30, 29 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Humanlike? ==<br /> It should be noted that the 'human-like fortress' as described is historically inaccurate. In particular, its either misrepresenting or confusing various details. One major point is that a _castle_ never incorporated a town. There are walled towns and there are castles, but these are entirely different things. A couple of historical periods/styles would lead to the following different suggestions:<br /> <br /> (A) Larger (stone) medieval castles sometimes had industry in the bailey. This was often pressed up against the outer wall to save on space and wall building. It was usually militarily useful industry (ie, metalsmithing of various types). Cooking and possibly brewing might also happen, and cooking at least would have been handled in the keep itself. Industries including jewelry, carpentry (on a permanent basis), and other non-military production would have been outside the castle, quite possibly in a town nearby. <br /> <br /> (B) More isolated smaller castles would have done necessary production in the bailey on a temporary basis (ie, erecting a carpentry work area when needed and disassembling it afterwards), with a few permanent industries (notably blacksmithing).<br /> <br /> (C) 'Dark Ages' castles would be made of wood, and weren't large enough to accomodate much industry. Instead they would have imported everything. The early castle was a defensible home for the lord and his family, and would only house them and a few military retainers.<br /> <br /> It should be noted that the lack of focus on industry in a castle meant diverse tasks might share the same workspace and in fact be handled by the same person. The purpose of a castle is military, not production, and castle's only produced goods for internal demand that either could not be imported, would be inconvenient to import, or were critical to the military purpose (and couldn't afford access to those goods being lost during a siege).<br /> <br /> (D) A walled town would have no keep. Nobles would not live there. Basically, towns would build a wall around their perimeter for defense. More important towns often grew to encompass nearby castles, and often outgrew their walls - which might either lead to substantial portions beyond the walls or accruing walls occasionally to encompass new growth. Despite a castle potentially being encompassed by a town, the castle and town were administratively separate - towns receiving independent charters from the crown - and the town was never subject to the lord of the castle (who may well control the surrounding countryside).<br /> <br /> Given the nature of Dwarf Fortress, treating it as a town rather than a castle is probably preferable unless you really want to emphasize military skills, which could be interesting. You could, of course, create a castle and a town, keeping them as virtually separate entities, with military dwarves and nobles living in the castle and other dwarves living in the town.<br /> <br /> --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:11, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :When did we start trying to make DF fit real-world history?<br /> :His idea seems perfectly fine when compared to in-game human towns/cities, as they have a keep and whatnot as part of the city. Only difference is adding a wall around it all. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:25, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Insane Renegade (just a thought) ==<br /> <br /> Well I was thinking something along these lines,<br /> <br /> They all think that your crazy, so you and some others ran. You shouldn't trust them... They want you dead. Except for the (random profession/job) they think like you. KILL THEM KILL ALL THAT OPPOSE YOU!!,<br /> <br /> Description:<br /> Xenophobia, Do not trade with others, Kill all immigrants except ones of a certain job/profession. If you want to go as a truly insane person, ban all statues and engravings of Dwarven faces (the statues, THE ROCKS! THEY ALL WANT ME DEAD!!!!) Be prepared for a long life of hatred and sieges.<br /> <br /> ~LrZeph~<br /> <br /> P.S. if anyone edits this and puts it on the main thing please give me partial credit... Thank you and goodnight!<br /> <br /> :How is this different from [[Challenges#Outcast|Outcast]], aside from the RP? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:41, 22 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :: Oh dear, i missed that one. never mind<br /> <br /> ~LrZeph~ 15:11 23 June 2008<br /> <br /> == Dystopian society ==<br /> <br /> Anyone thought of making a fortress based off one of those dystopian futures found in scifi novels like 1984, We, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451? The way I imagine it, it would be similar to the Equaland challenge, with variations based on the dystopian principle of your choice. For example, if you want to encourage uniformity across your population, enable all labor for every dwarf and persecute anyone who skills up too quickly at a given skill. A strict caste system might also be implementable, a la Brave New World. Another idea would be to kill off or at least &quot;re-educate&quot; any dwarf that falls below ecstatic for an extended period of time. Tons of ideas at {{wiki|Dystopia}}. Thoughts? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :That sounds like a good challenge. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:24, 24 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Underwater Building ==<br /> <br /> I've decided to take on the underwater building challenge, and have started Migrurmestthos, The Ocean-Citadel. But ah... I can't for the live of me figure out how I'm going to get glass blocks to the bottom of the ocean. Any ideas? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 20:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT)&lt;br&gt;<br /> ''P.S.: I've altered the creature tokens and set my Dwarves to Aquatic.''<br /> <br /> :I recommend either<br /> :#Don't build it in the ocean.<br /> :#Use pumping to pump a large area of the top level of the ocean out. Do the same with a slightly smaller area one level down. Repeat as desired.<br /> :#Pump the ocean out, build, then let it flow back in. This is like the above, but with the whole visible ocean. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:45, 20 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::Oookay, okay. I have single-handedly diverted the courses of raging rapids to give my children something to drink, harnessed the power of lava, and built towers of glass. However, I cannot help but approach the idea of pumping out '''the entire ocean''' with a bit of skepticism. Is this ''really'' possible? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 22:53, 21 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::Aye, it is. Aside from waves, the &quot;entire&quot; ocean is really, due to map limitations, just a large, fast-refilling lake. If you build a ring of pumps properly, you should be able to clear the water from a section, which can be as large as your fortress map. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 02:34, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: I've personally been using 'canals' in my fortress for quite a while, and what I do is simply allocate nobles' rooms along the side of the canal, and before flooding the waterway, I dig into it and build glass windows and blocks so the nobles can watch the fish swim by. I doubt it actually raises the room value by any more than the glass windows' base value, but I like the effect. This isn't really an &quot;underwater city&quot; per se, but it's born of the same concept. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 07:45, 26 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Check out [[User:Squirrelloid/Under the Sea]], then note that I haven't quite tested any of the possible methods yet. I'm about ready to turn on the magma tap and see if I can create an obsidian stalagmite with successive bursts of magma followed by channelling - that may provide a way to build stairs down through and assemble a mass pump appartus - yes, this is going to be a lot of work. Its took 6 years of game time to get to the point where I was ready and able to do a trial run - admittedly, it wasn't the only thing I was focused on. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:28, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Dwarf Factory ==<br /> <br /> --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:12, 28 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> Looking to develop this callenge concept:<br /> <br /> Your fortress is a highly specialized industrial complex. Select one item, or very narrow category of items. (ie Flour, Scepters, Shoes, Silk Bags, Crossbow Bolts) This is your factory's product. You must produce as much of it as possible, and it may only be used for export to any any and all caravans which visit your factory. Set up shift schedules, assign massive teams of dwarves (or even all of them!) to your core product, and generally devote your fort to maximizing output. <br /> <br /> Variants: &lt;br /&gt;<br /> Assembly line - Each Dwarf is assigned a single stage of the production cycle, this is their only labour. Workshops should be grouped togeather by type, ordered based on the production cycle and grouped with relevant stockpiles.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Communal - Every Dwarf has every relevant labour enabled, in addition to whatever else they do for the fort.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> High Management - For each Task in your production, appoint a department head. As the number of workers in each department grows, start appointing shift managers. As your factory expands in size, appoint reigonal coordinators and quality control bureaus. Cap this off with a board of directors and a CEO. None of these dwarves do anything but fill noble slots and build social skills.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Prison/Work Camp - Noble dwarves do not contribute to labour. Max the fortress/royal Guard at all times and draft 20% of the population into the army. The remaining dwarves are prisoners who must produce output. Build walls, rig traps, and make an example of anyone who fails to meet their quota.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> People's Glorious Five-Year Plan - As above, but arrive with no skilled workers, rig all facilities with self destructs and kill switches, and only arm one in ten of your soldiers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br /> <br /> Bonus: Only produce things vital to the survival of your workers, or directly involved in making your product. Anything else must be imported.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Further Bonus: Produce only your final product, all raw materials must be imported. spend the surplus on anything else you may need.<br /> <br /> How's it sound?<br /> <br /> == Luxurious Tomb ==<br /> <br /> Build an extravagant mausoleum for your entire dwarf community. Make it multi-leveled, make it a pyramid, make it out of glass if you want - but it must serve no other purpose than to be a dying place, and must not be accessed for any purpose other than to build it. Add a few decorations here and there, statues, tables, and a whole lot of coffins to house everyone.<br /> <br /> Once it's complete, turn your fortress into a ghost town. Remove the designation of all your stockpiles. Forbid all the workshops and forbid access to the different areas of the fort as they get deserted to limit dwarf movement. Lure everyone into the tomb, seal the entrance from the inside and watch everyone die inside their new mausoleum. The tomb should be designed such that the initial entry point cannot easily be guessed (i.e.: The entrance should be sealed using a wall or some other solid structure - not via a door you just mark forbidden.<br /> <br /> BONUS: make access to the tomb difficult or impossible, either by causing a cave-in in the tunnel that leads towards it, or by flooding the surrounding area in water or magma.<br /> <br /> BONUS #2: Build the tomb over a chasm. Find a way to drop the whole tomb-building into it once everyone's inside.<br /> <br /> :Suggestion: DON'T build it over a chasm; build it over a very large pit (deep enough to be called a 'chasm' by some) and make a set of ramps that lead down to the bottom. 1x2 setup; that is:<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ^^<br /> ..<br /> That is, up ramps, turn on normal flooring, then continue back up in the opposite direction. So a dwarf would travel in this path:<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> VV<br /> &gt;^<br /> :They'd come down the left ramp, turn left twice, and go down via the right ramp. Then they'd take two more lefts, and go down the left ramp, etc..<br /> :Just a neat little suggestion that's way too complicated, but'd look nice...also, {{k|V}} is a ramp; {{k|^}} is not.<br /> :I can't wait to try this out, then watch the temple I build go down, down, down, and '''SMASH'''--then use the ramps alongside it to view (and plunder, of course--it IS a tomb in adventure mode) it.<br /> :Oh, and just a Z-level view:<br /> | / <br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> |/<br /> |\<br /> | \<br /> | \<br /> | \<br /> :Or:<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> |/___<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> | /<br /> |/___<br /> :Etc.. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 23:45, 25 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Agoraphobia ==<br /> <br /> Your dwarves are absolutely terrified of the great outdoors, ([[carp|and]] [[Elephant|with]] [[Giant eagle|good]] [[undead|reason]] and want nothing more than to be nestled tightly in the &quot;[[Giant Cave Spider|relative]] [[Pit|saftey]]&quot; of the underground. Upon arrival, immediately burrow into the ground and haul all your supplies out of the sun's glare, and then never set foot on the surface again. Also, to help reduce anxiety, have no single chamber larger than 5x5, and let no hall stretch farther than 5 tiles between doors.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 11:42, 15 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == &lt;insert material&gt; Fort....wait, what? ==<br /> <br /> Ok, now I can understand a glass fort...and I can understand making it all outside, but how does one build it under water? Can someone please tell me how to do this so I can try to create my own Dwarven SeaLab? [[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 05:58, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :I believe its either done via pump rings (enough screw pumps can hollow out sections of the ocean long enough to build something to hold the water back), or in a cold enough seasonal environment, only doing construction during the winter. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:44, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :: The third option would be building the fort, and then making a lake around it. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 08:51, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::The real trick with building enough screw pumps is in water deeper than 1 z-level you need to find a way to build down - you cannot hang down staircases off sides like you can up staircases. I'm attempting to pump magma to form an obsidian sheen - tunnel down through it and channel a hole, pump more magma, and so on. I'll let people know how it works... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::So I've heard. Have you tried just carving a staircase along the underwater cliff on your game? I hope to see, or at least hear, the results of your work. As for me, I'm trying this challenge the other way around: Turn a hilly desert map into a massive glass aquarium, with my dwarves living the good life inside. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 13:41, 19 November 2008 (EST)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Giant_desert_scorpion&diff=45407 2008-11-15T13:35:15Z

<p>Alkyon: Do scorpions go after certain buildings first?</p> <hr /> <div>Can you really extract venom from the corpses? The 'extracts' page says that giant scorpion venom can only be imported. Which is right? --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 23:24, 26 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Do scorpions go after certain buildings first? ==<br /> <br /> I ended up having a scorpion waltz into my base without anyone noticing. After surviving the stone fall traps at my entrance (admittedly my traps were only 2 rows deep)it proceeded to stroll past my Trade Depot and down the 1-tile wide path between my barracks and dining hall, again without anyone noticing. No one took any notice of the arachnid terror until it had walked into a room that I had set aside as an archery range and dismantled all of my archery targets. Anyways, I'm wondering if scorpions have a preference on targets as the one that made it into my fort ignored the Trade Depot, several doors and the beds, table, and chairs behind said doors as it proceeded straight to my archery range and destroyed archery targets. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 08:35, 15 November 2008 (EST)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Squirrelloid/Under_the_Sea&diff=41050 2008-11-15T12:39:09Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Fandom */</p> <hr /> <div>== Fandom ==<br /> More want! --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 08:07, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> :I must agree, I want to see how this ends up, maybe with a picture here and there of your pump madness. This is definitely more ambitious than my plans to create a massive glass fortress overlooking a dwarf-made sea. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 07:39, 15 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == DFMA ==<br /> <br /> I would very much like to see this fortress. Is it on the DFMA?<br /> <br /> [[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 18:57, 12 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> It is not - actually, I haven't played in quite awhile (other addictions to feed) - maybe I'll get back around to doing something with it at some point. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 06:55, 15 November 2008 (EST)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Magma&diff=11269 2008-11-12T01:12:57Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Magma Vs. Sand */</p> <hr /> <div>Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the [[Magma smelter]] article, which state that using [[Fire-safe materials]] is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br /> :If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_rocks#Naming this article] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock#Mineralogical_classification this site] list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?<br /> :It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.<br /> ::So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> :You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--[[User:SL|SL]] 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br /> ::I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this &quot;cap&quot;, I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Magmapool/pipe section ==<br /> Zara, you recently added some info about all magma pipes having cliffs over them -- this is incorrect. I've played a very large number of magma pipe maps, and very often they are completely exposed to the air. I've also removed the line about them being &quot;as small as two z-levels!&quot;, because it needs better phrasing. I may fix it later. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 22:39, 26 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :in the meantime I had figured that out, too. But what is the difference between a magma pipe and a volcano, then? &lt;small&gt;&amp;ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Zara|Zara]]&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> ::As far as I know, the distinction comes down to whether it reaches the surface. If so, some would then call it a volcano rather than a magma pipe. I believe that magma pipes which reach the surface (or volcanoes, if you will) are the only ones which actually show up on the embark map, while underground magma pipes and magma pools do not (unless you use the Regional Prospector tool). --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 23:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::No, similar to Moonanibe,I've played on several maps where, on the embark screen, the magma pipe was only visible using regional prospector. However, as soon as I took a look at the place, I found the magma partly (or completely) exposed on the surface. [[User:Zara|Zara]] 01:59, 11 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Added new section ==<br /> I added a section regarding &quot;Built objects vs. Magma&quot;. I think it's absolutely vital we establish what does and doesn't melt in magma, in a clean list. There are quite a few things that could be added to that list (Constructed floors for one) so please, do add to it. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 17:31, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :Have you tested the bridges? I conjecture that all buildings and constructions without mechanisms are perfectly fine with magma contact. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :: The bridges part was cut from another section of the article and moved in there. Since it was already here, I assumed it was accurate. I haven't actually checked myself. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 16:54, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :I will verify bridges one way or the other. I'm pretty sure they cant melt, though. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:03, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br /> ::they dont melt, as they arent actually within the magma. that was copied over from the 2d wiki and nobody removed it -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 22:29, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br /> ::: I noticed you removed the line about bridges. It seems silly not to mention them at all, so I've written up a line about them working no matter what the material and stuck it in. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 23:12, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br /> ::::yea they should definately be mentioned, wasnt thinking when i removed it completely(recovering from a bad cold and brain is still a bit foggy) -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 00:49, 20 February 2008 (EST)<br /> Tested. Non-magmaiproof bridges -over- magma are fine. Non-magma-proof submerged in magma will melt. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:39, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br /> : Interesting. I'll edit the article to say as much. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 15:30, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br /> This is what I've found: ANY Construction is safe from magma (even wooden ones. Walls, stairs, fortifications, etc). Any building is unaffected by magma if the magma doesn't occupy the same tile as the building. Example: a door is safe if it's closed, even if it's made of non-safe rock or wood. If you lock it open with a mechanism, or if it's jammed, then the magma interacts with the components, burning/melting them if they can't stand the heat. A pump made of wood or any other material is also safe, as long as the magma doesn't flow *over* it. Since the &quot;out&quot; side acts as a wall, if it's correctly isolated from the magma it won't get damaged and will pump the magma without any trouble. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 01:41, 21 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Anyone clear on Vertical Bars in magma? I am attempting to keep imps and such from moving through my magma feeding tunnel and was curious if anyone had any good solutions to this problem. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 16:23, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I just use a bauxite wall grate, it works fine for me. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:02, 15 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> :: Ah, thank you, I just wanted to be sure they didn't melt regardless --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 02:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> &lt;br&gt;<br /> I made a few tests with magma and buildings/constructions and I can confirm some known results and I can provide a few new aspects. Constructions (b-&gt;C) are magma safe (walls, floors, stairs, others not tested). No matter what the material is.<br /> *&lt;s&gt;bridges build with bauxite *rocks* are not magma safe (bauxite mechanism or not)&lt;/s&gt;<br /> *bridges build with bauxite *blocks* are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)<br /> *bridges build with steel bars are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)<br /> Open test: bridge with blocks considered as not magma safe.<br /> &lt;br&gt;[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:14, 11 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The bridges build with bauxite rocks were previously connected with a lever. Unfortunately the mechanism is not removed from the bridge when you remove the lever. Well, at least it seems that the rules for magma safe materials are valid for bridges. With one exception: raised bridges can contain any mechanism, only when magma flows over the bridge it is destroyed.--[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 13:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Replenishing Magma ==<br /> <br /> Since magma replenishes now, I've rewritten that snippet from the article. If I've missed something(a kind of magma not regenerating, though this always worked for me on several maps), feel free to correct things. --[[User:Romantic Warrior|Romantic Warrior]] 15:47, 18 February 2008 (EST).<br /> <br /> <br /> I have a very good feeling that the replenishing magma is just &quot;pressurized&quot; magma. I haven't tested fully, but i have poured water over a magma pipe and re-mined it, and in that case the magma flow was upwards. --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 03:49, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Temperature ==<br /> <br /> Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I'm not sure how the temperature calculations are done, but I CAN tell you that magma will melt nearby ice. Check out http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-153-meltingwateronglacier to see it in action. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 15:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::It should be a flow, just like the magma itself. One of the other visible results is warm stone. The same can probably be said for water and damp stone as well. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Flow?==<br /> <br /> I have a magma pipe (pit) in my current fortress... I breached the pipe from the lowest level because of the diagonal bug when I discovered it, and it filled some long exploratory shafts. Since then, the top magma layer is down to 5/7 and 6/7 running all over the surface. After a little while, it's easy to see that magma act curiously: instead of bouncing from wall to wall like real water physics, in my game the 5/7 (the flow) seems to all move in the same direction at the same time. The direction change often, and seem to change randomly. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> There is another way to stop a flow of magma that's moving through a tunnel. You can go one z-level higher, dig to a spot above the magma-filled tunnel, then build a channel above where the magma is flowing and assign it as a Pond Zone. So long as you have buckets and a viable Water Source zone, a dwarf will come along and drop water on the magma, instantly turning it into obsidian and blocking the tunnel. --[[User:Stromko]] January 6th, 2007<br /> : I've tried this - it rarely works. Usually you just destroy 1/7 of the magma per bucket, along with the water from the bucket, and nothing turns to obsidian. You need to hit it with larger quantities of water at once to get reliable results. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:35, 6 January 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Actually, you have to hit it from two levels up. Just one won't do anything.--[[User:Demosthenes|Demosthenes]] 17:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> I have added a section to the main page on magma flow, based on frequent confusion in the forums, and on some investigations I have been making into the behavior of magma when pumped (I'm not the first to discover this behavior, but I did go to a fair degree of effort to test how it behaves in differing circumstances) --[[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] 21:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :Now THAT is how you make a diagram! Awesome. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:20, 8 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Criteria for Magma Buildings==<br /> <br /> Is there a special condition that must be met before Magma Smelters/Forges/Furnaces and so on will appear on the build menus? I have a magma pit and some channels over it so that I can access it for magma, but I cannot build any magma-using buildings. - [[User:Confused Rat|Confused Rat]]<br /> <br /> :Magma furnaces and forges need a hole somewhere on the ground where they are built. This is to allow the furnace/forge to take the heat from the magma as they are used. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:43, 25 January 2008 (EST)<br /> :What he means is that the magma furnaces don't even appear in the build menu. This is because you haven't discovered magma through natural means. The only way this can happen is if you used reveal to find the magma. You'll have to use the [[Utilities#Enable_Magma_Buildings|Enable Magma Buildings]] utility to make them appear. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:03, 25 January 2008 (EST)<br /> :Reclaimed fortresses may be bugged. If you reclaimed you fortress you probably can't do anything with it without 3rd party programs (like one mentioned above). Magma in [[pit]]s isn't enough to allow magma buildings. You need to discover true magma pipe and get pop-up informing about this. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Infinity Generators? ==<br /> <br /> Because magma is currently a finite resource, would it be a good idea to add how to make an infinity generator as workarround untill Toady gives us some more of the stuff?&lt;small&gt;—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Highlord Asehujiko|Highlord Asehujiko]] ([[User talk:Highlord Asehujiko|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Highlord Asehujiko|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}&lt;/small&gt;<br /> :Not on the main article as it would easily be considered cheating. In here, or the [[cheating]] article itself would be fine, the latter probably more appropriate as it could be applied to water as well for those scorching maps. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:16, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Magma regenerates in most cases, which pretty much means it's infinite. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Lava vs. Magma ==<br /> <br /> I hadn't noticed it until just now, but both Lava and Magma occur in the game. I haven't seen this fact referenced in the wiki. Magma is a fluid which occurs in Magma Pipes, and in areas directly connected to Magma Pipes. Lava appears to occur in disconnected areas. I'm not sure what happens if you reconnect. If you use {{k|k}} to view a square, you'll see either Magma or Lava depths given. I'm not clear on what difference there is between the two fluids. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :There is none, just the name. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:30, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::both in df, and irl, molten rock in open air is called lava, while subterranean is called magma -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:40, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Ah, so magma which is ''Outside'' is lava. Cool. I guess my disjoint areas are all also outside :) I suppose we ought to mention this somewhere on the page? --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 19:19, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Magma vs puppy? ==<br /> <br /> I have encountered an interesting glitch. I have 2 puppies and a kitten in magma that aren't dying, and yes I have temperature setting on. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-570-magmavspuppy<br /> <br /> For those interested in trying to recreate it, I believe it has to do with designating the animal to slaughter while trying to throw it into a pit. A few of my dwarves were having pathing errors to try and slaughter them when I noticed the 3 invulnerable pests. After saving and reloading, the critters were insta-gibbed.<br /> --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 04:59, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Chasm Confusion ==<br /> <br /> &quot;The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores.&quot;<br /> <br /> Magma, at least in my experience, has always been surrounded only by Obsidian, as a result you cannot get any kind of insight as to the surrounding minerals, this differs from a chasm where the veins coming up to a chasm are directly reflected in the walls.<br /> <br /> --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 04:18, 26 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> :volcanoes and magmapipes can form large &quot;chasms&quot; above them, though it depends on how rocky the map is<br /> :Confirmed, various minerals and gems were visible in the 'crater' area two levels above the magma in my magma pipe. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:05, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == gruesome accident in reall really older 2d version ==<br /> <br /> beware wooden floodgates<br /> not only do they burn(as I planned)<br /> but i scattered magma all around the room<br /> it rolled around quickly in all directions, flooding the tunnels, burning miners, smelters, war dogs and puppies alike without remorse.<br /> it has thus far filled the entire message screen with &quot; someone&quot; or &quot;something&quot; has burned to death <br /> it appears to gain mass from creeping down hallways! oh god...<br /> 60 deaths, at least 25 dwarves and 15 puppies22:08, 28 July 2008 (EDT)[[User:Eerr|Eerr]]<br /> <br /> == Magma cooling? ==<br /> <br /> Ive noticed at a 1/7 depth, the magma seems to cool and go away. v40d --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:28, 3 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : That is probably what the author meant by &quot;Magma that is only 1 deep &quot;evaporates&quot; over time.&quot; [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 19:58, 3 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Mechanisms on Non-Floodgates ==<br /> <br /> I want to power my underground smelting operations with magma, so I'm digging a tunnel into the side of a magma pipe. I don't want magma creatures coming in that way, so I need a set of [[bars]] across it. However, once I set up the bars, I need to open them to get a miner past and cut the last bit of stone and open the tunnel to the magma. I was going to just attach the bars to a level, but the question of what to use for the [[mechanism]] is bugging me. I don't want to waste my precious imported [[Bauxite]] on the mechanism, and once it closes behind the miner it never need to open again so it's fine it it melts, but not if the melting mechanism will cause the bars to deconstruct! Anyone know what happens to things other than floodgates when their mechanisms get melted off?<br /> --17:11, 7 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : Or you could make your life much simpler with [[Fortifications]]. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :: How? [[Fortification|Fortifications]] allow liquid to pass through and stop creatures, yes, but you can't open them ''at all''. How am I supposed to get my dwarf back after he digs the last square of the channel if there's a fortification blocking the way?--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 15:49, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::I used a fortification to keep fire imps out of my magma channel; I dug a stairway totally unconnected to the rest of my fortress to a spot adjacent to the top layer of the magma pipe, then dug a tunnel from within the fortress to within one tile of the stairway. I fortified the tile that separated the two, then dug a channel (from outside) that let the magma flow against the &quot;outside&quot; face of the fortification. The magma flowed through the fortification and into the &quot;inside&quot; tunnel.<br /> <br /> :::For good measure, in case I want to drain the inside tunnel at some point, I put an s-turn in the inside tunnel and situated a nickel/bauxite floodgate around the corner, out of sight of the fortification.<br /> <br /> :::Viewed from above, basically it looks like this:<br /> <br /> ~============<br /> ~~=====..X...<br /> ~~=====.=====<br /> ~~=&lt;#...=====<br /> ~~===========<br /> ~============<br /> <br /> ~ - Magma pipe<br /> = - Unmined tile (wall)<br /> . - Mined tile (channel)<br /> &lt; - Stairway<br /> # - Fortification<br /> X - Floodgate<br /> <br /> :::The last step here is to remove the tile between the magma and the stairway by digging a channel from one z-level up.<br /> :::--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::Why do you need a stairway? Couldn't you have just put the fortification on the tile where you have the stairway now? I'm also not sure why you need a turn as opposed to having the floodgate directly in line; i.e. {{qd|cols=7|~|`|╬|{{qd/ch{{!}}X{{!}}888|ccc}}|.|.|.}} <br /> ::::[[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:55, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::I believe you can't create a fortification from above, though I could be wrong. It doesn't cost anything to dig one extra z-level down to get yourself a tile with an open face front and back which fortifies up nicely. Also, I put the kink in the tunnel just to be paranoid -- I don't want things shooting fireballs down it. I'm not sure if a fireball can destroy a floodgate. Again, it didn't cost me anything to make it a touch more elaborate.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::Well, if I dug in from above, I could just use a non-retracting set of bars. Fortifications allow liquid to flow, but they slow it down. But I'm not digging at the top level of the pipe. I suppose I could just use a sacrificial non-magma-safe floodgate, set up the bars behind it, and then open it and let it melt.<br /> ::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:20, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Magma Ate My Wall ==<br /> While digging my channel to a magma pipe, I came across a vein of Lignite which ran perpendicular to my channel. I mined it out, hauled the lignite over to my fortress, and then built some walls over the side passages. It's now less than a year later, and one of those wall-units is missing. Unless there's some way a fire imp or other magma creature can destroy walls, the magma must have melted the wall. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 07:12, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Wasn't that wall a Lignite wall ? It may have burnt, then. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:46, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :Yes, it sounds like it was a liginite wall. Magma will ignite coke-bearing rock, this has been the case for a long time. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:56, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :: No, the wall was built from rock salt. All the lignite was hauled away, and as an economic stone, not a material choice I could have made by accident. The floor is still lignite though. Think that may have been a factor? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:58, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::That's possible, but I find it unlikely. Also, I misinterpreted what you meant by 'built a wall', didn't realize it was a construction. I thought it was a smoothed rock face. It's been a persisting question (at least in #df on synIRC) if magma will melt constructions not made of bauxite. You may have just answered that for us. Perhaps you could test by letting magma into a 5x5 room with one natural rock pillar in the middle, and a wall construction of the same type of stone? That'd answer the question once and for all, I think. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:11, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::I've had magma against some of my constructed walls for years and years without damage. A good thing too, I've got quarters on the other side! They're almost certainly basalt. I wouldn't rule out the vanishing wall being caused by a burning floor; lignite can burn for years before vanishing. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:14, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> ::::Interesting. It was probably the liginite floor, then, but that begs the question of how a burning floor could consume a wall; stone should be fire-safe. A really interesting situation, to be sure. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::Also -- as for 'not a material choice I could have made by accident', I've found my masons will happily convert expensive imported ores and flux into blocks if they decide your depot's closer than the nearest basalt. And once anything's blocked, it's useless but for constructions. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:39, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::::: @Corona: That's for a mason's workshop, though. When you build walls, you choose the specific rocks to build from. Although, I have to say that I've never had a mason use a rock from the restricted list.<br /> ::::: For clarity, here's an image capture. The east-west shaft was my original tunnel towards the magma pipe. Every mined-out tile north or south of that shaft was Lignite. However, the opening just below the cursor, where my missing wall is supposed to be, is listed as Rock Salt as well. This is because dwarves kept building that section of wall from the wrong side, and I had to deconstruct it and put it back up several times -- which kills our &quot;burning lignite floor&quot; theory. Hrm.....now that I think about it, I can't be sure that I did build that wall in the end. I can't remember if a dwarf ever built it from the correct side. I'll let you know if another wall section disappears.<br /> [[Image:romeofalling1.GIF]]<br /> <br /> --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:54, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Disambiguation ==<br /> <br /> I see the term ''magma pipe'' and ''magma vent'' being used interchangeably. Do these terms mean the same thing? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:25, 8 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Basically, yes. Magma vents, however, are visible from the surface, whereas magma pipes are not. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:26, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Magma Vs. Sand ==<br /> <br /> In a failed experiment with wooden screw pumps with magma proof blocks, I have discovered something horrible and intriguing. Magma/lava can burn it's way through sand, so now I have an above ground magma cistern half flooding back into the magma pipe I filled it from, and half into my underground workshops through 2 z-levels of sand flooring. I have picture proof too, but I have no idea how to upload pictures from my laptop to a wiki. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :&quot;Upload file&quot;, toolbox, left side of this page.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Ah, thanks. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> Do you mean it goes down z-levels, or does it just move across the sand? magma can normally move across anything except water, I think. --[[User:Destor|Destor]] 14:41, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :Vertically, through z-levels. It created a hole that wasn't there before through a sand floor, into my main hallway, and then through the floor there into my workshops and stockpiles. From there, it simply followed the path of least resistance down the stairs and into the living quarters (not shown). The magma seems to only tunnel through floor tiles that have no wall tile below them, which is understandable but I've never had this happen before. Though, admittedly I have never tried to create a lava cistern on top of sand before. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br /> &lt;gallery&gt;<br /> Image:DF-0.JPG|Above ground (sorry for large size despite jpeg compression)<br /> Image:DF-1.JPG|1 z-level down (main hallway)<br /> Image:DF-2.JPG|2 z-levels down (workshops and rock, bar, and wood stockpiles)<br /> &lt;/gallery&gt;</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=File:DF-0.JPG&diff=45948 2008-11-12T01:05:31Z

<p>Alkyon: </p> <hr /> <div></div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=File:DF-1.JPG&diff=45947 2008-11-12T01:05:02Z

<p>Alkyon: </p> <hr /> <div></div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=File:DF-2.JPG&diff=45946 2008-11-12T01:04:00Z

<p>Alkyon: </p> <hr /> <div></div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Strange_mood&diff=5203 2008-11-11T19:27:05Z

<p>Alkyon: /* What Workshop? */</p> <hr /> <div>Does the new version still have the strange mood? It wouldnt be complete without it!<br /> <br /> :It still exists, I've had it happen several times now, I went to the archive wiki and copy/pasted the old page.<br /> <br /> ::Isnt that why the wiki was nuked? To make sure that no old info lingers? Ill put some &quot;verify&quot; in there, I dont think that the bold text is enough for users to understand that some of this may no longer apply. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 06:03, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::I agree. Although moods themselves don't seem to have been changed in this version, the changes to the stones/ores that they use means that some of the information in this article is no longer true. I'll have a go at cleaning it up when I have the proper time for it, but this wiki definitely needs a 'no copypasting from the archives' rule to avoid screwups like this. If people are going to copypaste old stuff, then it is downright irresponsible of them not to verify the accuracy of the information before committing it to the wiki. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]<br /> <br /> I know, I was a huge fan of that little strange aspect of the old one.<br /> <br /> I need my dwarfs to make more swordfish bone swords, and i still need some glass weapons/armor<br /> <br /> The moods seem to have changed. One of my dwarfs went fey, made a nice hematite mug, and is now a legendary... Engraver. Very wierd, he also had no stoneworking or other craftdwarf skills. But he was a competent mason. This was also my fifth dwarf who took the same craftworkshop, so it's a bit strange. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 17:36, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Six fey dwarf, all took the craftdwarfshop, now my bowyer took one. Think it might be a bug. Is the 15 artifacts limit still in? --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:34, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :: Whohoo my second legendary engraver made a gold mug. My bowyer became a legendary engraver. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:40, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br /> ::: Scratch all that, one of my woodworkers just used a carpenters shop. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Have you marked all statements in the article that risks being falsified with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{verify}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:41, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> Hey, I am getting a dwarf who wants &quot;raw...crystal&quot;. Help? -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]<br /> :Probably wants raw crystal glass. I had a dwarf ask for &quot;raw...green&quot;, they wanted raw green glass. Looks like Toady might have moved the glass demands out of the &quot;rough...color&quot; category. [[User:Iddq?|Iddq?]]<br /> <br /> About the engravers taking over craftdwarf's shops and becoming legendary engravers afterwards is quite true. I recently got a bunch of immigrants, and the engraver that came with them fell into a strange mood before even crossing the bridge on my river. He took over a craftdwarf's workshop and made a basalt scepter, and now he's legendary level in engraving. So yeah, perfect laboratory conditions, he was 100% engraver when he went into his mood and came out a legendary engraver. --[[User:Zhang5|Zhang5]] 17:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> It seems that no craft skill is required. I just had a peasant go into a strange mood. His skills were: competent marksdwarf; novice wrestler; novice armor wearer. He grabbed a craftsdwarf's workshop and 10 items (3xFelsite, Schorls, Tigereyes, Red Beryls, Giant cave swallow leather, Grizzly Bear Leather, Rough harlequin opals and Ash logs -- guess he has expensive taste?) and churned out an idol in relatively short order. This is my 9th successful mood in this fortress, and I've seen requests for between 3 and 10 items, personally. Since they seem to be increasing in complexity, I've either hit the item cap, or I'm about to break ten :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:34, 19 November 2007 (EST)<br /> :This is consistent with older versions. Moody peasants would become crafters, and 10 items was the cap. The minimum was 1 item -- generally when constructing a &quot;perfect gem&quot;.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:55, 19 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> I had a miner go into a strange mood, take over a mason's workshop, and make a something that got him up to legendary miner status. In my current fort, I have had 6 artifacts made, 2 of which were actual moods and 5 of which were possessions (I can add, one of them failed and the dwarf became a babbling wreck). My dwarves love to use only one item: an oak door (1 item), an olivine coffin (2 items), a turtle shell mask (1 item and is my cheapest artifiact at 3600), a diorite amulet (3 items), and a perfect jelly opal (1 item). --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> Where to add the info that in my game (.33c) a miner took over a mason's workshop, became legendary miner and then held the artifact in his right hand instead of a pick, which became 'hauled', then droped the pick and then took the pick with his left hand? He can mine after all these. While holding a 667 weight units cabinet in his right hand. --[[User:Another|Another]] 10:07, 1 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> I had dwarf Miller, profecienty Grower who had Fey Mood, and he became a Legendary Mason ....<br /> Is it normal ? [[user:Feydreva|Feydreva]]<br /> <br /> <br /> One of my dwarves has become possessed and is demanding cloth, bones and stone, which I have plenty of. But he refuses to go fetch them. Is there something I'm doing wrong?&lt;small&gt;—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] ([[User talk:Patarak|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Patarak|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}&lt;/small&gt;<br /> : They want either silk or fiber cloth. Make sure you have both! [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 03:40, 21 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> <br /> Aargh! One of my dwarves went secretive and is demanding a huge list of stuff. He seems to be demanding two types of stone because the &quot;sketches quarry&quot; message stays on twice as long as the others. I have (and he has gathered) flint: is there any way to tell what kind of stone he wants? --[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 011:55, 7 March 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> I had a Glassmaker that sat around when I had a lot of Magma Glass Furnaces, but then decided to get going when I made a regular Glass Furnace. Seems like they will only use a specific kind. Not sure yet if it's random. Might be they won't take the Magma Glass Furnace in version 38a. Can anyone verify? --[[User:Afbee|Afbee]] 05:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> : My Glassmaker successfully used Magma Glass Furnace in a fey mood. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 07:54, 24 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :: I just had the same problem. I had a glass maker who wouldn't take over a magma glass furnace. Since I'm creating a glass fortress and had a mess of glass orders piled up, I thought that might have confused the AI and I built 2 more magma glass furnaces. No dice, he didn't want them. After reading this page I decided to create a normal glass furnace. He snapped it up as soon as it was built. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 04:07, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Maximum number of artifacts==<br /> Well, I just got my umpteenth mood, and it resulted in the 16th successfully created artifact.(33b) So that 15 cap thing is clearly wrong. As it happens, this single artifact is worth 754,800, and is an adamantine spear decorated with, among other things, adamantine. For the record, in case this data is important to someone tabulating number of ingredients, my moods in order created the following objects using the corresponding number of ingredients: (Flute, 4; Mechanism, 4; Spear, 3; Millstone, 6; Ring, 8; Chest, 7; Cape, 7; Ring, 9; Statue, 8; Idol, 10; earring, 8; Buckler, 8; Table, 3; Mechanism, 10; Bracelet, 5; and Spear, 8). [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:54, 27 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> Do fell/macabre moods still exist? I haven't seen any for quite a few versions. It'd be nice to have that verified.&lt;small&gt;—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] ([[User talk:Rabek|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rabek|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> == clarification on &quot;trade&quot; skills ==<br /> <br /> Are trade skills all the skills that produce items with some level of quality? Mainly I want to know if dyer is a trade skill. And how does that work with miner? I didn't think miner was a trade skill. Maybe someone who knows more than me could clarify in the wiki.<br /> I just got my first artifact. It's worth 2400. The dwarf took one log and made a scepter. -[[User:Radtse|Radtse]]<br /> <br /> :I don't know exactly, we should make a list of the skills we know are not trade skills. I'll start: my brewer/grower once got a strange mood and made a wood item and gained woodcrafting skill. Let's try to only add to the list when we have experienced a moody dwarf with that skill only.--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 19:36, 27 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::I'm adding Weaver and Furnace Operator to this list, since they're on the wiki. I haven't seen them myself, but I'm assuming someone else has. Knowing that Furnace Operator is a &quot;fey-able&quot; skill will be quite helpful.-[[User:Radtse|Radtse]] 18:28, 29 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::Where's cooking fit in? --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 20:09, 6 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> List of non-trade skills:<br /> <br /> * [[Brewer]]<br /> * [[Grower]]<br /> * [[Miller]]<br /> * [[Wood Cutter]]<br /> <br /> Skills that may be used and gained by dwarves with no trade skills:<br /> <br /> * [[Wood crafter]]<br /> * [[Stone crafter]]<br /> <br /> Skills that use a different skill(See list above), but give correct skill:<br /> <br /> * [[Miner]]<br /> * [[Engraver]]<br /> * [[Furnace Operator]]<br /> * [[Weaver]]<br /> <br /> :::For the record, i can confirm both Furnace Operator and Weaver, since no one else has commented to verify them thus far. (The weaver actually surprised me when it happened). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 29 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::I can confirm that a Miner will claim a Mason's shop, and produce a stone item, even with no Mason skill at all. It works just like the wiki says. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 23:47, 31 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::And I can confirm that Wood Cutter does not contribute -- I had a Novice Glassmaker/No Prefix Wood Cutter take a glass furnace. [[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 13:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == mood condition ==<br /> The 20 dwarves / no crazy stuff has been found while looking at the binary of v0.27.169.33d, might be different now, but i don't think so. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 15:08, 2 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> <br /> Regarding the calulations for required maximum existing artifacts (items/200 and dugout/(48*48)) wouldn't it make more sense to either use the squared symbol, or the actual result of that square (which was the original number actually discovered/revealed I believe)? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:17, 28 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> :&lt;su&lt;b&gt;&lt;/b&gt;p&gt;2&lt;/su&lt;b&gt;&lt;/b&gt;p&gt; --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 21:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :20 dorf must be still there. I've made low-population fort and I had no mood for ~8 years (from start). I'm sure that I've digged at least 2700 tiles and created at least 300 items. I will test if raising population to 20 will cause moods. I think that 20 dwarf limit should be mentioned even if it's not confirmed. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 18:30, 26 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Random Workshop Seizure ==<br /> <br /> I just had a gem cutter seize a carpenter's workshop and make a perfect gem; upon completion I had a worthless Legendary dwarf and a new jeweler's workshop, so I guess that's still in from the previous version. I've removed the verify in the article. [[User:Tacroy|Tacroy]] 16:51, 9 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :nonsense. Should be a bigger chance of making ZOMG high-quality gem crafts now ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 07:35, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::More to the point, if you don't like the profession your dwarf has Legendary in...draft for the stats! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> == forbidden items ==<br /> <br /> Do moody dwarfs use forbidden items? Will they demand forbid items? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 02:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :I don't know whether moody dwarves will use forbidden items (my guess would be they won't). But they don't choose the demands based on what is on the map, they can and do demand things you don't have. So it's safe to assume forbidding doesn't prevent dwarves from demanding the forbidden kind of item. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Forbidden items are not used. Similarly, if your mooder slipped in e.g. an iron bar when you wanted him to use a platinum bar, you can forbid AND dump the item to stop him from using it. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:35, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Impossible Requests? ==<br /> Will dwarves try to use items that you just don't have access to? I had a dwarf asking for silk when I haven't imported any and I'm pretty sure there isn't a giant spider anywhere. Also asking for &quot;rocks&quot; when I have mined at least one of each type of rock that is visible (requiring rocks from unmined areas seem pretty harsh). Also a request for &quot;metal bars&quot; when I have smeltered at least one of each ore I have found and made at least one of each possible alloy. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:27, 26 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :Yeah, impossible stuff is all my dwarves ever want. :-P Right now mine appears to want stone I don't have, and no traders have come by with any stone.... So my guys are frantically mining in various directions.... [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 13:59, 7 March 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::As far as i can tell they never request anything it is truly impossible for you to get. Available by trade seems to imply possible for the game engine though. Too bad if its the start of winter (which is when all my moods which require things I don't have and can't produce happen, of course). But if there's no sand on your map at all you will not be asked for glass, since you can't trade for sand. (If there's 5 tiles of sand under that underground lake you haven't found yet... sucks to be you - my first fortress lost 3 dwarves to this). So yes, requiring things present on the map that you haven't found yet appears to be possible and routine. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:48, 29 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Procastinator! ==<br /> <br /> I just had a moody dwarf demand bones, wood, rocks, and cloth. <br /> <br /> He got the rocks okay, and then did nothing for ages. Then, as soon as the fire imp corpse rotted away, he ran down and got the bones, then ran over to my wood stockpile and got a piece of wood...<br /> <br /> Do they need to get their ingredients in order now?--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 06:28, 29 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :i think so, not that it matters, he wont start unless he has ALL the ingridents.<br /> <br /> == gems ==<br /> My moody dwarf asked for 2 kinds of rough gems, but i had cut all rough ones at that point. So i &quot;printed out&quot; all layers and started checking for leftover gems in the walls. Guess what, he picked the first 2 kinds i mined. So either<br /> <br /> * random/pure luck (don't think so)<br /> * they only ask what they &quot;see&quot;<br /> * they only ask what is somehow on the map<br /> * or they might even adapt somewhat to availability, but i doubt that. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:59, 28 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> :I believe, but don't know for sure, that sometimes they want specific items and sometimes they just want anything in a category of items, such as any rough gems in this case. It used to work that way in the 2d version, didn't it? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:23, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Confirming behaviour that BahamutZERO sees. Dwarves will '''always''' grab the closest object that falls under the category unless he is requesting a specific metal, specific silk, or specific plant fiber cloth. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:25, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Just standing around? ==<br /> <br /> I have a dwarf who was possessed, but won't leave the main hall. He's also a novice in everything, but to be safe I've already cleared the shops. It's winter of my first year, but somehow I've already had 2 waves of immigrants. Back to the point, I'm afraid he's going to wait out the mood and go berserk. Help?<br /> --[[User:Ilmmad|Ilmmad]] 20:00, 6 March 2008 (EST)<br /> :Well, make sure u ve got one workshop of every possible kind available - there are however quite a few u dont need to build, its covered in the article. Check for locked doors or otherwise blocked access (bridges, channels, statues..) Dont forget furnaces, glass and magma. Check with 'q' if all workshops are completely build. If it doesnt help consider building workshops not related to his skills, or more &quot;exotic&quot; ones, like Ashery or Alchemist. No one can guarantee that Toady didnt have some new fun ideas ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:59, 6 March 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == stark raving suicide ==<br /> <br /> My mechanic wanted silk cloth, which I didn't have, and eventually gone insane (&quot;stark raving mad&quot; to be precise).<br /> Seconds after that I had message that he died in heat (I had artificial magma pool nearby).<br /> He probably jumped into the pool like in melancholy. Main article states that only melancholic dwarves kill themselves in such way.<br /> Could anyone confirm that mad ones do that too, and this wasn't just an accident/bug? [[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 16:59, 19 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Perhaps it ''was'' an accident -- I seem to recall that &quot;stark raving mad&quot; ones wander around at random. Perhaps it wandered into the lava. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 18:30, 19 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::It was an accident, the stark raving mad ones wander around aimlessly, regardless of Z- levels. --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 12:53, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Glassmaker with no glass ==<br /> <br /> I had an immigrant glassworker get a mood, seize a glass workshop, and created an artifact made entirely of gemstones. No glass involved or asked for. (No sand on the map, anyway.) He turned into a Legendary Glassworker, despite having never made a glass anything.<br /> <br /> == Rewrite ==<br /> <br /> I think I got most of the old information and then some into the new article. Please make any necessary modifications. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 01:22, 10 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Silk Cloth ==<br /> <br /> I had a dwarf demand silk cloth, but he refused to use my giant cave spider silk cloth. I didn't have any regular cave spider silk cloth. To verify that the silk was the problem, I used Companion to change the silk demand to any stone, and he immediately collected the rest of the materials and constructed the artifact.<br /> Can anyone else confirm that giant cave spider silk cloth does '''not''' count as silk cloth? --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:55, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> :No, I'm pretty sure I can't. I've seen a dwarf grab GCS silk.&lt;br&gt;Could it be that you had thread and not cloth? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:59, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Nope, giant cave spider cloth [3] sorted under cloth on the stock screen. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 16:52, 13 May 2008 (EDT) <br /> Probably they may specifically require GCS silk or specifically require CS silk. &amp;mdash;[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 14:10, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> I figured it out - the silk was outside and I had accidentally left &quot;Dwarves Stay Inside&quot; on after the latest attack. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:52, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Engineer taken by secretive mood, and creates... ==<br /> <br /> Evidently engineers who are taken by a secretive mood (&quot;withdraws from society&quot;, in case it's later determined that the descriptor has an effect) will have no problems taking over the mechanic's workshop. And there's only one thing mechanic-shops build - that's right, you heard right, ladies and gentlemen, I present ''Kodor ós: A claystone mechanism''. It's even available for use from the appropriate {{k|b}})uild screens. He decided to make this splendid 86,400o creation while on an eight-mechanism binge in that very same mechanic's workshop. Maybe dwarves choose the workshop they've been in the most often? --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Ah, actually I can confirm I've had a Mechanic create an artifact mechanism as well. Stick some obsidian swords in that baby and you'll be good to go! That should probably go in the main article for skills vs workshops... I would expect siege engineers also have strange moods, but I imagine pump op and siege op fall under the general craftsman catch-all --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 15:45, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::I'd like to smack BismuthBismuthBismuth with the facts stated in the article.<br /> A dwarf will claim a workshop according to their highest applicable skill<br /> ::In this case it was Engineering and therefore your mechanic went to a Mechanic's Workshop. It's the same with the possessed glassmakers. They hit a glassmaker's shop. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:49, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::I'd like to hit GreyMario-Maria, preferably in the upper-body region, with the fact that at the time of my post, the table in the article did not mention mechanics whatsoever. --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 22:26, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::Pardon me, but I was not aware that ''mechanics'' worked at a ''mechanic's workshop'', where objects are created that have ''quality mofidiers'' and can thus become ''artifacts''. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:28, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::::Pardon me as well, but it seems that the table in [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&amp;oldid=25231 this particular revision] did not encapsulate this information. '''GreyMario is throwing a tantrum!''' --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:22, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Mechanics. Work at a mechanic's workshop. Produce items which have visible quality modifiers. Items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to be artifacts. THEREFORE, mechanics claim mechanic's workshops when they go fey. Seriously, logic sometimes, please? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:30, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::::::That would follow if we knew for certain that the proposition &quot;items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to artifacts&quot; is necessarily true. We don't. For instance, siege engine components are &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; verified as artifact eligible. Since that isn't a given, it's perfectly reasonable for people to not jump to the conclusion that a job type will create artifacts relevant to it until they see it happen. &amp;mdash;[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 16:26, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> i love the absurd randomness factor with artifacts - you end up with really weird stuff. like grates, and socks. a question pertinent to legendary mechanisms - i got a stupidly valuable one of these as the first legendary item in a new fort and i used it to create a gear assembly in a public dining area in the hopes that it would give dwarves happy thoughts, but after a few years gametime of checking randomly on them nothing particular showed up. any particular use along these lines for legendary mechanisms for something other then simple fortress value? --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 11:51, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> : weapon traps! --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 12:03, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> :: FWIW, that might be a more general answer for artifact items... I had a Weaponsmith dwarf go into a strange mood and create a lead warhammer (Yes, there was plenty of steel and iron around, but this dwarf likes lead, I guess). It can't be equipped as a weapon (lead isn't a valid material type normally for constructing weapons) but I can put it into a weapons trap. Which... is basically the only thing I can do with this 65000* artifact... -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:37, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::: Actually, artifact equipment can be used, it just requires a &quot;hero&quot; level dwarf or higher. However, for the nonstandard material weapons and armor you may do well to forbid them so that they're not used. The actual effectiveness of odd material artifacts is supposedly lower than that of decent iron or steel equipment, and artifact equipment cannot be unequipped once a dwarf decides to use it. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 15:36, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Tanner fixed ==<br /> <br /> I just had a Tanner claim a leather works, not a tannery. I updated the table. For the record, the dwarf has no skill level in leather working.<br /> <br /> :I wonder if Tanners even claim Tanner's shops? Tanner's shops just make leather, and leather doesn't have quality modifiers, so you shouldn't be able to produce an artifact from one, aye? That information came from an older version of the page, I wonder if it was inaccurate. Weavers supposed claim Clothier's shops and not Looms, so it would make sense if Tanners were the same way. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 18:08, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Cooks ==<br /> <br /> I can confirm that cooks do not produce artifacts: my Peasant with Dabbling Cook/Brewer/(various social) and nothing else just took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop. I'm removing the verify tag for cooks in the article. --[[User:Comonad|Comonad]] 16:16, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> mmmm. . . . artifact roast. [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 19:12, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Soapers etc. ==<br /> <br /> It stands to reason that soapers, lye makers, and wood burners wouldn't make artifacts. Neither soap, lye, charcoal, nor ash have quality modifiers, and that's all those skills can produce. I'm pretty sure you can't have artifact soap, lye, charcoal, or ash. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 20:26, 11 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : My woodburner just got possessed. He wants a shell and wood. I have the shell but I'm not sure what type of wood he wants. --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 20:18, 22 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Not all demands need to be met ==<br /> <br /> I just had a dwarf taken by a secretive mood and collect a huge variety of things: 4 stone, 1 block, 1 gem, 2 rough gems, bones, a shell, 2 leather. He was further sketching for more bones, 2 leather, another stone, a log, another shell, and raw green glass. The only things I didn't have on hand were the shell and the green glass -- dwarves seem to go through their list in order, and get stuck on certain items. <br /> <br /> I just hoped someone would eat a turtle (50/1678 chance!) and queued a raw green glass. When the glass was made, he got started, totally ignoring his previous requests for wood, another shell, and the other things. Anyone else have this experience? [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 13:28, 13 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I think they keep sketching images even after they get the items. Your dwarf already had all of the shells, leather, bones, stones, blocks, and gems he needed. [[User:Curudan|Curudan]] 15:26, 22 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::This is correct. I've had dwarves run out, grab two items, and then sit at the Workshop shouting a need for three items. When the item he was waiting on became available, he ran out, grabbed it, went back in, and started working. So it's pretty evident that they list ALL of the items they want, regardless of how many of them they've already collected. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 22:28, 23 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Possession ==<br /> <br /> I've had 14 moods in my current Fortress, 11 of them have been possessions. Am I really unlucky, or is the type of mood weighted? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 26 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> : As far as I can tell by looking at the game logic, each mood types are as likely to be rolled (except fell of course, which is selected if happiness&lt;rand(128) or something like that). --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:56, 3 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> :: I had a feeling I was just getting really unlucky, thanks. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:34, 3 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Furnace Operator ==<br /> <br /> Apparently furnace operator is no longer a mood skill as of df 28 181 40d. I just had a expert furnace operator take over a Craftdwarf's Workshop and become a legendary stonecrafter. [[User:Otherdwarf|Otherdwarf]] 10:26, 1 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Chunk Butchery? ==<br /> <br /> Well, even though the selection of items for artifacts is totally random, its a bit wierd if a macabre dwarf goes to a butcher's workshop and starts bringing in tons of dwarf CHUNKS! My dwarf just started doing that, should I expect rotting meat (yes, the chunks are already rotten)? - 09:57, 30 October 2008 Stinhad Limarezum <br /> : ^_^ &quot;This is a delicious meat pie. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. On the item is an image of a dwarf and dwarves in rotting dwarf chunks. The dwarf is baking the other dwarves into meat pies. The artwork relates to the rise of the dwarf butcher Sweeney Todd as the cook of The Fleet Street in 78&quot; -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:11, 30 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Oh, ''do'' post the description of the artifact when the dwarf completes it. (&quot;Menaces with spikes of dwarf chunk?&quot; I'd be intimidated for sure.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:18, 30 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == What Workshop? ==<br /> <br /> Is there &lt;em&gt;any&lt;/em&gt; way to discover what workshop a dwarf in a secretive mood requires? I had nearly everything. I built a siege workshop and a bowery before I ran out of ideas and he went beserk. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 10:55, 3 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :You have to look at what skills he has first and rule out the obvious. If he has no mood-able skills then it's going to be a craftsdwarf's workshop. If you have hit magma and he wants a forge or glass furnace, he will insist on the magma version of that workshop. Finally, maybe one of your existing workshops was inaccessible or you accidentally [[forbid]] it at some point. If none of that works, I'm out of ideas too.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:01, 3 November 2008 (EST)<br /> ::I have a functioning magma glass furnace and I had to build a normal glass furnace when my glass maker became secretive. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:23, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Same here, in fact I had 2 moody glass making dwarves refuse to use anything but a normal glass furnace when there were 5 fully functional magma glass furnaces in the same fort. (sorry, almost forgot to sign) --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:27, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Possessed Child ==<br /> <br /> I have a child that has become possessed and taken over one of my craft workshops (of course). He is muttering the following: rough color, leather skin, bone yes, stone rock, cloth thread, blocks bricks, and a shell. He has already acquired the following: turtle bones, donkey bones [4], microcline blocks, turtle shell, rough pink garnets, dog leather, carp leather, and hematite. I have plenty of all the things that he's already gathered, so I'm assuming that he doesn't need anymore of those items. That leaves the thread. I have turned off my auto-loom a while ago so that I would keep the thread around for artifacts. I currently have plenty of plant thread (4 pig tail and 14 rope reed) and enough spider silk (5). What I don't have is giant spider silk. I have confirmed that the child has access to all these items, including the thread which I have piles next to his workshop. Still he doesn't start construction.<br /> <br /> Can any help? Is there a difference for artifact creation between regular cave spider silk and giant cave spider silk? ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]<br /> <br /> :Do you have both silk and plant cloth available? (Not just thread.) And do you see any specific cloth preferences in his thoughts and preferences screen?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:32, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::Argh. I bet that's it. No silk cloth, just thread. I have had guys go crazy for lack of thread before, so I never make silk cloth, just kept the thread. Oh well, the child is now melancholy. I can re-load and see what would happen if I make the thread into cloth. Maybe I'll test that out. ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]<br /> <br /> ::: Wouldn't you be able to solve this problem by only weaving dyed thread? Then you'll always have some thread waiting to be dyed. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 03:04, 6 November 2008 (EST)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Strange_mood&diff=5202 2008-11-11T19:26:45Z

<p>Alkyon: /* What Workshop? */</p> <hr /> <div>Does the new version still have the strange mood? It wouldnt be complete without it!<br /> <br /> :It still exists, I've had it happen several times now, I went to the archive wiki and copy/pasted the old page.<br /> <br /> ::Isnt that why the wiki was nuked? To make sure that no old info lingers? Ill put some &quot;verify&quot; in there, I dont think that the bold text is enough for users to understand that some of this may no longer apply. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 06:03, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::I agree. Although moods themselves don't seem to have been changed in this version, the changes to the stones/ores that they use means that some of the information in this article is no longer true. I'll have a go at cleaning it up when I have the proper time for it, but this wiki definitely needs a 'no copypasting from the archives' rule to avoid screwups like this. If people are going to copypaste old stuff, then it is downright irresponsible of them not to verify the accuracy of the information before committing it to the wiki. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]<br /> <br /> I know, I was a huge fan of that little strange aspect of the old one.<br /> <br /> I need my dwarfs to make more swordfish bone swords, and i still need some glass weapons/armor<br /> <br /> The moods seem to have changed. One of my dwarfs went fey, made a nice hematite mug, and is now a legendary... Engraver. Very wierd, he also had no stoneworking or other craftdwarf skills. But he was a competent mason. This was also my fifth dwarf who took the same craftworkshop, so it's a bit strange. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 17:36, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Six fey dwarf, all took the craftdwarfshop, now my bowyer took one. Think it might be a bug. Is the 15 artifacts limit still in? --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:34, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :: Whohoo my second legendary engraver made a gold mug. My bowyer became a legendary engraver. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:40, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br /> ::: Scratch all that, one of my woodworkers just used a carpenters shop. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Have you marked all statements in the article that risks being falsified with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{verify}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:41, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> Hey, I am getting a dwarf who wants &quot;raw...crystal&quot;. Help? -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]<br /> :Probably wants raw crystal glass. I had a dwarf ask for &quot;raw...green&quot;, they wanted raw green glass. Looks like Toady might have moved the glass demands out of the &quot;rough...color&quot; category. [[User:Iddq?|Iddq?]]<br /> <br /> About the engravers taking over craftdwarf's shops and becoming legendary engravers afterwards is quite true. I recently got a bunch of immigrants, and the engraver that came with them fell into a strange mood before even crossing the bridge on my river. He took over a craftdwarf's workshop and made a basalt scepter, and now he's legendary level in engraving. So yeah, perfect laboratory conditions, he was 100% engraver when he went into his mood and came out a legendary engraver. --[[User:Zhang5|Zhang5]] 17:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> It seems that no craft skill is required. I just had a peasant go into a strange mood. His skills were: competent marksdwarf; novice wrestler; novice armor wearer. He grabbed a craftsdwarf's workshop and 10 items (3xFelsite, Schorls, Tigereyes, Red Beryls, Giant cave swallow leather, Grizzly Bear Leather, Rough harlequin opals and Ash logs -- guess he has expensive taste?) and churned out an idol in relatively short order. This is my 9th successful mood in this fortress, and I've seen requests for between 3 and 10 items, personally. Since they seem to be increasing in complexity, I've either hit the item cap, or I'm about to break ten :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:34, 19 November 2007 (EST)<br /> :This is consistent with older versions. Moody peasants would become crafters, and 10 items was the cap. The minimum was 1 item -- generally when constructing a &quot;perfect gem&quot;.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:55, 19 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> I had a miner go into a strange mood, take over a mason's workshop, and make a something that got him up to legendary miner status. In my current fort, I have had 6 artifacts made, 2 of which were actual moods and 5 of which were possessions (I can add, one of them failed and the dwarf became a babbling wreck). My dwarves love to use only one item: an oak door (1 item), an olivine coffin (2 items), a turtle shell mask (1 item and is my cheapest artifiact at 3600), a diorite amulet (3 items), and a perfect jelly opal (1 item). --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> Where to add the info that in my game (.33c) a miner took over a mason's workshop, became legendary miner and then held the artifact in his right hand instead of a pick, which became 'hauled', then droped the pick and then took the pick with his left hand? He can mine after all these. While holding a 667 weight units cabinet in his right hand. --[[User:Another|Another]] 10:07, 1 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> I had dwarf Miller, profecienty Grower who had Fey Mood, and he became a Legendary Mason ....<br /> Is it normal ? [[user:Feydreva|Feydreva]]<br /> <br /> <br /> One of my dwarves has become possessed and is demanding cloth, bones and stone, which I have plenty of. But he refuses to go fetch them. Is there something I'm doing wrong?&lt;small&gt;—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] ([[User talk:Patarak|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Patarak|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}&lt;/small&gt;<br /> : They want either silk or fiber cloth. Make sure you have both! [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 03:40, 21 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> <br /> Aargh! One of my dwarves went secretive and is demanding a huge list of stuff. He seems to be demanding two types of stone because the &quot;sketches quarry&quot; message stays on twice as long as the others. I have (and he has gathered) flint: is there any way to tell what kind of stone he wants? --[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 011:55, 7 March 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> I had a Glassmaker that sat around when I had a lot of Magma Glass Furnaces, but then decided to get going when I made a regular Glass Furnace. Seems like they will only use a specific kind. Not sure yet if it's random. Might be they won't take the Magma Glass Furnace in version 38a. Can anyone verify? --[[User:Afbee|Afbee]] 05:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> : My Glassmaker successfully used Magma Glass Furnace in a fey mood. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 07:54, 24 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :: I just had the same problem. I had a glass maker who wouldn't take over a magma glass furnace. Since I'm creating a glass fortress and had a mess of glass orders piled up, I thought that might have confused the AI and I built 2 more magma glass furnaces. No dice, he didn't want them. After reading this page I decided to create a normal glass furnace. He snapped it up as soon as it was built. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 04:07, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Maximum number of artifacts==<br /> Well, I just got my umpteenth mood, and it resulted in the 16th successfully created artifact.(33b) So that 15 cap thing is clearly wrong. As it happens, this single artifact is worth 754,800, and is an adamantine spear decorated with, among other things, adamantine. For the record, in case this data is important to someone tabulating number of ingredients, my moods in order created the following objects using the corresponding number of ingredients: (Flute, 4; Mechanism, 4; Spear, 3; Millstone, 6; Ring, 8; Chest, 7; Cape, 7; Ring, 9; Statue, 8; Idol, 10; earring, 8; Buckler, 8; Table, 3; Mechanism, 10; Bracelet, 5; and Spear, 8). [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:54, 27 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> Do fell/macabre moods still exist? I haven't seen any for quite a few versions. It'd be nice to have that verified.&lt;small&gt;—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] ([[User talk:Rabek|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rabek|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> == clarification on &quot;trade&quot; skills ==<br /> <br /> Are trade skills all the skills that produce items with some level of quality? Mainly I want to know if dyer is a trade skill. And how does that work with miner? I didn't think miner was a trade skill. Maybe someone who knows more than me could clarify in the wiki.<br /> I just got my first artifact. It's worth 2400. The dwarf took one log and made a scepter. -[[User:Radtse|Radtse]]<br /> <br /> :I don't know exactly, we should make a list of the skills we know are not trade skills. I'll start: my brewer/grower once got a strange mood and made a wood item and gained woodcrafting skill. Let's try to only add to the list when we have experienced a moody dwarf with that skill only.--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 19:36, 27 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::I'm adding Weaver and Furnace Operator to this list, since they're on the wiki. I haven't seen them myself, but I'm assuming someone else has. Knowing that Furnace Operator is a &quot;fey-able&quot; skill will be quite helpful.-[[User:Radtse|Radtse]] 18:28, 29 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::Where's cooking fit in? --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 20:09, 6 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> List of non-trade skills:<br /> <br /> * [[Brewer]]<br /> * [[Grower]]<br /> * [[Miller]]<br /> * [[Wood Cutter]]<br /> <br /> Skills that may be used and gained by dwarves with no trade skills:<br /> <br /> * [[Wood crafter]]<br /> * [[Stone crafter]]<br /> <br /> Skills that use a different skill(See list above), but give correct skill:<br /> <br /> * [[Miner]]<br /> * [[Engraver]]<br /> * [[Furnace Operator]]<br /> * [[Weaver]]<br /> <br /> :::For the record, i can confirm both Furnace Operator and Weaver, since no one else has commented to verify them thus far. (The weaver actually surprised me when it happened). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 29 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::I can confirm that a Miner will claim a Mason's shop, and produce a stone item, even with no Mason skill at all. It works just like the wiki says. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 23:47, 31 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::And I can confirm that Wood Cutter does not contribute -- I had a Novice Glassmaker/No Prefix Wood Cutter take a glass furnace. [[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 13:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == mood condition ==<br /> The 20 dwarves / no crazy stuff has been found while looking at the binary of v0.27.169.33d, might be different now, but i don't think so. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 15:08, 2 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> <br /> Regarding the calulations for required maximum existing artifacts (items/200 and dugout/(48*48)) wouldn't it make more sense to either use the squared symbol, or the actual result of that square (which was the original number actually discovered/revealed I believe)? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:17, 28 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> :&lt;su&lt;b&gt;&lt;/b&gt;p&gt;2&lt;/su&lt;b&gt;&lt;/b&gt;p&gt; --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 21:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :20 dorf must be still there. I've made low-population fort and I had no mood for ~8 years (from start). I'm sure that I've digged at least 2700 tiles and created at least 300 items. I will test if raising population to 20 will cause moods. I think that 20 dwarf limit should be mentioned even if it's not confirmed. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 18:30, 26 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Random Workshop Seizure ==<br /> <br /> I just had a gem cutter seize a carpenter's workshop and make a perfect gem; upon completion I had a worthless Legendary dwarf and a new jeweler's workshop, so I guess that's still in from the previous version. I've removed the verify in the article. [[User:Tacroy|Tacroy]] 16:51, 9 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :nonsense. Should be a bigger chance of making ZOMG high-quality gem crafts now ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 07:35, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::More to the point, if you don't like the profession your dwarf has Legendary in...draft for the stats! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> == forbidden items ==<br /> <br /> Do moody dwarfs use forbidden items? Will they demand forbid items? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 02:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :I don't know whether moody dwarves will use forbidden items (my guess would be they won't). But they don't choose the demands based on what is on the map, they can and do demand things you don't have. So it's safe to assume forbidding doesn't prevent dwarves from demanding the forbidden kind of item. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Forbidden items are not used. Similarly, if your mooder slipped in e.g. an iron bar when you wanted him to use a platinum bar, you can forbid AND dump the item to stop him from using it. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:35, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Impossible Requests? ==<br /> Will dwarves try to use items that you just don't have access to? I had a dwarf asking for silk when I haven't imported any and I'm pretty sure there isn't a giant spider anywhere. Also asking for &quot;rocks&quot; when I have mined at least one of each type of rock that is visible (requiring rocks from unmined areas seem pretty harsh). Also a request for &quot;metal bars&quot; when I have smeltered at least one of each ore I have found and made at least one of each possible alloy. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:27, 26 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :Yeah, impossible stuff is all my dwarves ever want. :-P Right now mine appears to want stone I don't have, and no traders have come by with any stone.... So my guys are frantically mining in various directions.... [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 13:59, 7 March 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::As far as i can tell they never request anything it is truly impossible for you to get. Available by trade seems to imply possible for the game engine though. Too bad if its the start of winter (which is when all my moods which require things I don't have and can't produce happen, of course). But if there's no sand on your map at all you will not be asked for glass, since you can't trade for sand. (If there's 5 tiles of sand under that underground lake you haven't found yet... sucks to be you - my first fortress lost 3 dwarves to this). So yes, requiring things present on the map that you haven't found yet appears to be possible and routine. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:48, 29 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Procastinator! ==<br /> <br /> I just had a moody dwarf demand bones, wood, rocks, and cloth. <br /> <br /> He got the rocks okay, and then did nothing for ages. Then, as soon as the fire imp corpse rotted away, he ran down and got the bones, then ran over to my wood stockpile and got a piece of wood...<br /> <br /> Do they need to get their ingredients in order now?--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 06:28, 29 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :i think so, not that it matters, he wont start unless he has ALL the ingridents.<br /> <br /> == gems ==<br /> My moody dwarf asked for 2 kinds of rough gems, but i had cut all rough ones at that point. So i &quot;printed out&quot; all layers and started checking for leftover gems in the walls. Guess what, he picked the first 2 kinds i mined. So either<br /> <br /> * random/pure luck (don't think so)<br /> * they only ask what they &quot;see&quot;<br /> * they only ask what is somehow on the map<br /> * or they might even adapt somewhat to availability, but i doubt that. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:59, 28 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> :I believe, but don't know for sure, that sometimes they want specific items and sometimes they just want anything in a category of items, such as any rough gems in this case. It used to work that way in the 2d version, didn't it? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:23, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Confirming behaviour that BahamutZERO sees. Dwarves will '''always''' grab the closest object that falls under the category unless he is requesting a specific metal, specific silk, or specific plant fiber cloth. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:25, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Just standing around? ==<br /> <br /> I have a dwarf who was possessed, but won't leave the main hall. He's also a novice in everything, but to be safe I've already cleared the shops. It's winter of my first year, but somehow I've already had 2 waves of immigrants. Back to the point, I'm afraid he's going to wait out the mood and go berserk. Help?<br /> --[[User:Ilmmad|Ilmmad]] 20:00, 6 March 2008 (EST)<br /> :Well, make sure u ve got one workshop of every possible kind available - there are however quite a few u dont need to build, its covered in the article. Check for locked doors or otherwise blocked access (bridges, channels, statues..) Dont forget furnaces, glass and magma. Check with 'q' if all workshops are completely build. If it doesnt help consider building workshops not related to his skills, or more &quot;exotic&quot; ones, like Ashery or Alchemist. No one can guarantee that Toady didnt have some new fun ideas ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:59, 6 March 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == stark raving suicide ==<br /> <br /> My mechanic wanted silk cloth, which I didn't have, and eventually gone insane (&quot;stark raving mad&quot; to be precise).<br /> Seconds after that I had message that he died in heat (I had artificial magma pool nearby).<br /> He probably jumped into the pool like in melancholy. Main article states that only melancholic dwarves kill themselves in such way.<br /> Could anyone confirm that mad ones do that too, and this wasn't just an accident/bug? [[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 16:59, 19 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Perhaps it ''was'' an accident -- I seem to recall that &quot;stark raving mad&quot; ones wander around at random. Perhaps it wandered into the lava. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 18:30, 19 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::It was an accident, the stark raving mad ones wander around aimlessly, regardless of Z- levels. --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 12:53, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Glassmaker with no glass ==<br /> <br /> I had an immigrant glassworker get a mood, seize a glass workshop, and created an artifact made entirely of gemstones. No glass involved or asked for. (No sand on the map, anyway.) He turned into a Legendary Glassworker, despite having never made a glass anything.<br /> <br /> == Rewrite ==<br /> <br /> I think I got most of the old information and then some into the new article. Please make any necessary modifications. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 01:22, 10 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Silk Cloth ==<br /> <br /> I had a dwarf demand silk cloth, but he refused to use my giant cave spider silk cloth. I didn't have any regular cave spider silk cloth. To verify that the silk was the problem, I used Companion to change the silk demand to any stone, and he immediately collected the rest of the materials and constructed the artifact.<br /> Can anyone else confirm that giant cave spider silk cloth does '''not''' count as silk cloth? --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:55, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> :No, I'm pretty sure I can't. I've seen a dwarf grab GCS silk.&lt;br&gt;Could it be that you had thread and not cloth? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:59, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Nope, giant cave spider cloth [3] sorted under cloth on the stock screen. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 16:52, 13 May 2008 (EDT) <br /> Probably they may specifically require GCS silk or specifically require CS silk. &amp;mdash;[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 14:10, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> I figured it out - the silk was outside and I had accidentally left &quot;Dwarves Stay Inside&quot; on after the latest attack. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:52, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Engineer taken by secretive mood, and creates... ==<br /> <br /> Evidently engineers who are taken by a secretive mood (&quot;withdraws from society&quot;, in case it's later determined that the descriptor has an effect) will have no problems taking over the mechanic's workshop. And there's only one thing mechanic-shops build - that's right, you heard right, ladies and gentlemen, I present ''Kodor ós: A claystone mechanism''. It's even available for use from the appropriate {{k|b}})uild screens. He decided to make this splendid 86,400o creation while on an eight-mechanism binge in that very same mechanic's workshop. Maybe dwarves choose the workshop they've been in the most often? --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Ah, actually I can confirm I've had a Mechanic create an artifact mechanism as well. Stick some obsidian swords in that baby and you'll be good to go! That should probably go in the main article for skills vs workshops... I would expect siege engineers also have strange moods, but I imagine pump op and siege op fall under the general craftsman catch-all --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 15:45, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::I'd like to smack BismuthBismuthBismuth with the facts stated in the article.<br /> A dwarf will claim a workshop according to their highest applicable skill<br /> ::In this case it was Engineering and therefore your mechanic went to a Mechanic's Workshop. It's the same with the possessed glassmakers. They hit a glassmaker's shop. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:49, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::I'd like to hit GreyMario-Maria, preferably in the upper-body region, with the fact that at the time of my post, the table in the article did not mention mechanics whatsoever. --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 22:26, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::Pardon me, but I was not aware that ''mechanics'' worked at a ''mechanic's workshop'', where objects are created that have ''quality mofidiers'' and can thus become ''artifacts''. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:28, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::::Pardon me as well, but it seems that the table in [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&amp;oldid=25231 this particular revision] did not encapsulate this information. '''GreyMario is throwing a tantrum!''' --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:22, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Mechanics. Work at a mechanic's workshop. Produce items which have visible quality modifiers. Items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to be artifacts. THEREFORE, mechanics claim mechanic's workshops when they go fey. Seriously, logic sometimes, please? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:30, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::::::That would follow if we knew for certain that the proposition &quot;items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to artifacts&quot; is necessarily true. We don't. For instance, siege engine components are &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; verified as artifact eligible. Since that isn't a given, it's perfectly reasonable for people to not jump to the conclusion that a job type will create artifacts relevant to it until they see it happen. &amp;mdash;[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 16:26, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> i love the absurd randomness factor with artifacts - you end up with really weird stuff. like grates, and socks. a question pertinent to legendary mechanisms - i got a stupidly valuable one of these as the first legendary item in a new fort and i used it to create a gear assembly in a public dining area in the hopes that it would give dwarves happy thoughts, but after a few years gametime of checking randomly on them nothing particular showed up. any particular use along these lines for legendary mechanisms for something other then simple fortress value? --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 11:51, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> : weapon traps! --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 12:03, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> :: FWIW, that might be a more general answer for artifact items... I had a Weaponsmith dwarf go into a strange mood and create a lead warhammer (Yes, there was plenty of steel and iron around, but this dwarf likes lead, I guess). It can't be equipped as a weapon (lead isn't a valid material type normally for constructing weapons) but I can put it into a weapons trap. Which... is basically the only thing I can do with this 65000* artifact... -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:37, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::: Actually, artifact equipment can be used, it just requires a &quot;hero&quot; level dwarf or higher. However, for the nonstandard material weapons and armor you may do well to forbid them so that they're not used. The actual effectiveness of odd material artifacts is supposedly lower than that of decent iron or steel equipment, and artifact equipment cannot be unequipped once a dwarf decides to use it. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 15:36, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Tanner fixed ==<br /> <br /> I just had a Tanner claim a leather works, not a tannery. I updated the table. For the record, the dwarf has no skill level in leather working.<br /> <br /> :I wonder if Tanners even claim Tanner's shops? Tanner's shops just make leather, and leather doesn't have quality modifiers, so you shouldn't be able to produce an artifact from one, aye? That information came from an older version of the page, I wonder if it was inaccurate. Weavers supposed claim Clothier's shops and not Looms, so it would make sense if Tanners were the same way. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 18:08, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Cooks ==<br /> <br /> I can confirm that cooks do not produce artifacts: my Peasant with Dabbling Cook/Brewer/(various social) and nothing else just took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop. I'm removing the verify tag for cooks in the article. --[[User:Comonad|Comonad]] 16:16, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> mmmm. . . . artifact roast. [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 19:12, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Soapers etc. ==<br /> <br /> It stands to reason that soapers, lye makers, and wood burners wouldn't make artifacts. Neither soap, lye, charcoal, nor ash have quality modifiers, and that's all those skills can produce. I'm pretty sure you can't have artifact soap, lye, charcoal, or ash. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 20:26, 11 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : My woodburner just got possessed. He wants a shell and wood. I have the shell but I'm not sure what type of wood he wants. --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 20:18, 22 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Not all demands need to be met ==<br /> <br /> I just had a dwarf taken by a secretive mood and collect a huge variety of things: 4 stone, 1 block, 1 gem, 2 rough gems, bones, a shell, 2 leather. He was further sketching for more bones, 2 leather, another stone, a log, another shell, and raw green glass. The only things I didn't have on hand were the shell and the green glass -- dwarves seem to go through their list in order, and get stuck on certain items. <br /> <br /> I just hoped someone would eat a turtle (50/1678 chance!) and queued a raw green glass. When the glass was made, he got started, totally ignoring his previous requests for wood, another shell, and the other things. Anyone else have this experience? [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 13:28, 13 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I think they keep sketching images even after they get the items. Your dwarf already had all of the shells, leather, bones, stones, blocks, and gems he needed. [[User:Curudan|Curudan]] 15:26, 22 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::This is correct. I've had dwarves run out, grab two items, and then sit at the Workshop shouting a need for three items. When the item he was waiting on became available, he ran out, grabbed it, went back in, and started working. So it's pretty evident that they list ALL of the items they want, regardless of how many of them they've already collected. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 22:28, 23 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Possession ==<br /> <br /> I've had 14 moods in my current Fortress, 11 of them have been possessions. Am I really unlucky, or is the type of mood weighted? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 26 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> : As far as I can tell by looking at the game logic, each mood types are as likely to be rolled (except fell of course, which is selected if happiness&lt;rand(128) or something like that). --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:56, 3 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> :: I had a feeling I was just getting really unlucky, thanks. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:34, 3 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Furnace Operator ==<br /> <br /> Apparently furnace operator is no longer a mood skill as of df 28 181 40d. I just had a expert furnace operator take over a Craftdwarf's Workshop and become a legendary stonecrafter. [[User:Otherdwarf|Otherdwarf]] 10:26, 1 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Chunk Butchery? ==<br /> <br /> Well, even though the selection of items for artifacts is totally random, its a bit wierd if a macabre dwarf goes to a butcher's workshop and starts bringing in tons of dwarf CHUNKS! My dwarf just started doing that, should I expect rotting meat (yes, the chunks are already rotten)? - 09:57, 30 October 2008 Stinhad Limarezum <br /> : ^_^ &quot;This is a delicious meat pie. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. On the item is an image of a dwarf and dwarves in rotting dwarf chunks. The dwarf is baking the other dwarves into meat pies. The artwork relates to the rise of the dwarf butcher Sweeney Todd as the cook of The Fleet Street in 78&quot; -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:11, 30 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Oh, ''do'' post the description of the artifact when the dwarf completes it. (&quot;Menaces with spikes of dwarf chunk?&quot; I'd be intimidated for sure.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:18, 30 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == What Workshop? ==<br /> <br /> Is there &lt;em&gt;any&lt;/em&gt; way to discover what workshop a dwarf in a secretive mood requires? I had nearly everything. I built a siege workshop and a bowery before I ran out of ideas and he went beserk. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 10:55, 3 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :You have to look at what skills he has first and rule out the obvious. If he has no mood-able skills then it's going to be a craftsdwarf's workshop. If you have hit magma and he wants a forge or glass furnace, he will insist on the magma version of that workshop. Finally, maybe one of your existing workshops was inaccessible or you accidentally [[forbid]] it at some point. If none of that works, I'm out of ideas too.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:01, 3 November 2008 (EST)<br /> ::I have a functioning magma glass furnace and I had to build a normal glass furnace when my glass maker became secretive. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:23, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Same here, in fact I had 2 moody glass making dwarves refuse to use anything but a normal glass furnace when there were 5 fully functional magma glass furnaces in the same fort.<br /> <br /> == Possessed Child ==<br /> <br /> I have a child that has become possessed and taken over one of my craft workshops (of course). He is muttering the following: rough color, leather skin, bone yes, stone rock, cloth thread, blocks bricks, and a shell. He has already acquired the following: turtle bones, donkey bones [4], microcline blocks, turtle shell, rough pink garnets, dog leather, carp leather, and hematite. I have plenty of all the things that he's already gathered, so I'm assuming that he doesn't need anymore of those items. That leaves the thread. I have turned off my auto-loom a while ago so that I would keep the thread around for artifacts. I currently have plenty of plant thread (4 pig tail and 14 rope reed) and enough spider silk (5). What I don't have is giant spider silk. I have confirmed that the child has access to all these items, including the thread which I have piles next to his workshop. Still he doesn't start construction.<br /> <br /> Can any help? Is there a difference for artifact creation between regular cave spider silk and giant cave spider silk? ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]<br /> <br /> :Do you have both silk and plant cloth available? (Not just thread.) And do you see any specific cloth preferences in his thoughts and preferences screen?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:32, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::Argh. I bet that's it. No silk cloth, just thread. I have had guys go crazy for lack of thread before, so I never make silk cloth, just kept the thread. Oh well, the child is now melancholy. I can re-load and see what would happen if I make the thread into cloth. Maybe I'll test that out. ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]<br /> <br /> ::: Wouldn't you be able to solve this problem by only weaving dyed thread? Then you'll always have some thread waiting to be dyed. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 03:04, 6 November 2008 (EST)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Magma&diff=11266 2008-11-11T19:19:19Z

<p>Alkyon: Magma Vs. Sand</p> <hr /> <div>Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the [[Magma smelter]] article, which state that using [[Fire-safe materials]] is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br /> :If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_rocks#Naming this article] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock#Mineralogical_classification this site] list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?<br /> :It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.<br /> ::So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> :You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--[[User:SL|SL]] 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)<br /> ::I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this &quot;cap&quot;, I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Magmapool/pipe section ==<br /> Zara, you recently added some info about all magma pipes having cliffs over them -- this is incorrect. I've played a very large number of magma pipe maps, and very often they are completely exposed to the air. I've also removed the line about them being &quot;as small as two z-levels!&quot;, because it needs better phrasing. I may fix it later. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 22:39, 26 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :in the meantime I had figured that out, too. But what is the difference between a magma pipe and a volcano, then? &lt;small&gt;&amp;ndash; [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Zara|Zara]]&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> ::As far as I know, the distinction comes down to whether it reaches the surface. If so, some would then call it a volcano rather than a magma pipe. I believe that magma pipes which reach the surface (or volcanoes, if you will) are the only ones which actually show up on the embark map, while underground magma pipes and magma pools do not (unless you use the Regional Prospector tool). --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 23:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::No, similar to Moonanibe,I've played on several maps where, on the embark screen, the magma pipe was only visible using regional prospector. However, as soon as I took a look at the place, I found the magma partly (or completely) exposed on the surface. [[User:Zara|Zara]] 01:59, 11 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Added new section ==<br /> I added a section regarding &quot;Built objects vs. Magma&quot;. I think it's absolutely vital we establish what does and doesn't melt in magma, in a clean list. There are quite a few things that could be added to that list (Constructed floors for one) so please, do add to it. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 17:31, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :Have you tested the bridges? I conjecture that all buildings and constructions without mechanisms are perfectly fine with magma contact. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :: The bridges part was cut from another section of the article and moved in there. Since it was already here, I assumed it was accurate. I haven't actually checked myself. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 16:54, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :I will verify bridges one way or the other. I'm pretty sure they cant melt, though. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:03, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br /> ::they dont melt, as they arent actually within the magma. that was copied over from the 2d wiki and nobody removed it -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 22:29, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br /> ::: I noticed you removed the line about bridges. It seems silly not to mention them at all, so I've written up a line about them working no matter what the material and stuck it in. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 23:12, 19 February 2008 (EST)<br /> ::::yea they should definately be mentioned, wasnt thinking when i removed it completely(recovering from a bad cold and brain is still a bit foggy) -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 00:49, 20 February 2008 (EST)<br /> Tested. Non-magmaiproof bridges -over- magma are fine. Non-magma-proof submerged in magma will melt. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:39, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br /> : Interesting. I'll edit the article to say as much. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 15:30, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br /> This is what I've found: ANY Construction is safe from magma (even wooden ones. Walls, stairs, fortifications, etc). Any building is unaffected by magma if the magma doesn't occupy the same tile as the building. Example: a door is safe if it's closed, even if it's made of non-safe rock or wood. If you lock it open with a mechanism, or if it's jammed, then the magma interacts with the components, burning/melting them if they can't stand the heat. A pump made of wood or any other material is also safe, as long as the magma doesn't flow *over* it. Since the &quot;out&quot; side acts as a wall, if it's correctly isolated from the magma it won't get damaged and will pump the magma without any trouble. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 01:41, 21 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Anyone clear on Vertical Bars in magma? I am attempting to keep imps and such from moving through my magma feeding tunnel and was curious if anyone had any good solutions to this problem. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 16:23, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I just use a bauxite wall grate, it works fine for me. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:02, 15 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> :: Ah, thank you, I just wanted to be sure they didn't melt regardless --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 02:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> &lt;br&gt;<br /> I made a few tests with magma and buildings/constructions and I can confirm some known results and I can provide a few new aspects. Constructions (b-&gt;C) are magma safe (walls, floors, stairs, others not tested). No matter what the material is.<br /> *&lt;s&gt;bridges build with bauxite *rocks* are not magma safe (bauxite mechanism or not)&lt;/s&gt;<br /> *bridges build with bauxite *blocks* are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)<br /> *bridges build with steel bars are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)<br /> Open test: bridge with blocks considered as not magma safe.<br /> &lt;br&gt;[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:14, 11 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The bridges build with bauxite rocks were previously connected with a lever. Unfortunately the mechanism is not removed from the bridge when you remove the lever. Well, at least it seems that the rules for magma safe materials are valid for bridges. With one exception: raised bridges can contain any mechanism, only when magma flows over the bridge it is destroyed.--[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 13:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Replenishing Magma ==<br /> <br /> Since magma replenishes now, I've rewritten that snippet from the article. If I've missed something(a kind of magma not regenerating, though this always worked for me on several maps), feel free to correct things. --[[User:Romantic Warrior|Romantic Warrior]] 15:47, 18 February 2008 (EST).<br /> <br /> <br /> I have a very good feeling that the replenishing magma is just &quot;pressurized&quot; magma. I haven't tested fully, but i have poured water over a magma pipe and re-mined it, and in that case the magma flow was upwards. --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 03:49, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Temperature ==<br /> <br /> Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I'm not sure how the temperature calculations are done, but I CAN tell you that magma will melt nearby ice. Check out http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-153-meltingwateronglacier to see it in action. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 15:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::It should be a flow, just like the magma itself. One of the other visible results is warm stone. The same can probably be said for water and damp stone as well. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Flow?==<br /> <br /> I have a magma pipe (pit) in my current fortress... I breached the pipe from the lowest level because of the diagonal bug when I discovered it, and it filled some long exploratory shafts. Since then, the top magma layer is down to 5/7 and 6/7 running all over the surface. After a little while, it's easy to see that magma act curiously: instead of bouncing from wall to wall like real water physics, in my game the 5/7 (the flow) seems to all move in the same direction at the same time. The direction change often, and seem to change randomly. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> There is another way to stop a flow of magma that's moving through a tunnel. You can go one z-level higher, dig to a spot above the magma-filled tunnel, then build a channel above where the magma is flowing and assign it as a Pond Zone. So long as you have buckets and a viable Water Source zone, a dwarf will come along and drop water on the magma, instantly turning it into obsidian and blocking the tunnel. --[[User:Stromko]] January 6th, 2007<br /> : I've tried this - it rarely works. Usually you just destroy 1/7 of the magma per bucket, along with the water from the bucket, and nothing turns to obsidian. You need to hit it with larger quantities of water at once to get reliable results. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:35, 6 January 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Actually, you have to hit it from two levels up. Just one won't do anything.--[[User:Demosthenes|Demosthenes]] 17:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> I have added a section to the main page on magma flow, based on frequent confusion in the forums, and on some investigations I have been making into the behavior of magma when pumped (I'm not the first to discover this behavior, but I did go to a fair degree of effort to test how it behaves in differing circumstances) --[[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] 21:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :Now THAT is how you make a diagram! Awesome. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:20, 8 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Criteria for Magma Buildings==<br /> <br /> Is there a special condition that must be met before Magma Smelters/Forges/Furnaces and so on will appear on the build menus? I have a magma pit and some channels over it so that I can access it for magma, but I cannot build any magma-using buildings. - [[User:Confused Rat|Confused Rat]]<br /> <br /> :Magma furnaces and forges need a hole somewhere on the ground where they are built. This is to allow the furnace/forge to take the heat from the magma as they are used. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:43, 25 January 2008 (EST)<br /> :What he means is that the magma furnaces don't even appear in the build menu. This is because you haven't discovered magma through natural means. The only way this can happen is if you used reveal to find the magma. You'll have to use the [[Utilities#Enable_Magma_Buildings|Enable Magma Buildings]] utility to make them appear. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:03, 25 January 2008 (EST)<br /> :Reclaimed fortresses may be bugged. If you reclaimed you fortress you probably can't do anything with it without 3rd party programs (like one mentioned above). Magma in [[pit]]s isn't enough to allow magma buildings. You need to discover true magma pipe and get pop-up informing about this. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Infinity Generators? ==<br /> <br /> Because magma is currently a finite resource, would it be a good idea to add how to make an infinity generator as workarround untill Toady gives us some more of the stuff?&lt;small&gt;—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Highlord Asehujiko|Highlord Asehujiko]] ([[User talk:Highlord Asehujiko|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Highlord Asehujiko|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}&lt;/small&gt;<br /> :Not on the main article as it would easily be considered cheating. In here, or the [[cheating]] article itself would be fine, the latter probably more appropriate as it could be applied to water as well for those scorching maps. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:16, 27 January 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Magma regenerates in most cases, which pretty much means it's infinite. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Lava vs. Magma ==<br /> <br /> I hadn't noticed it until just now, but both Lava and Magma occur in the game. I haven't seen this fact referenced in the wiki. Magma is a fluid which occurs in Magma Pipes, and in areas directly connected to Magma Pipes. Lava appears to occur in disconnected areas. I'm not sure what happens if you reconnect. If you use {{k|k}} to view a square, you'll see either Magma or Lava depths given. I'm not clear on what difference there is between the two fluids. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :There is none, just the name. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:30, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::both in df, and irl, molten rock in open air is called lava, while subterranean is called magma -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:40, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::: Ah, so magma which is ''Outside'' is lava. Cool. I guess my disjoint areas are all also outside :) I suppose we ought to mention this somewhere on the page? --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 19:19, 23 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Magma vs puppy? ==<br /> <br /> I have encountered an interesting glitch. I have 2 puppies and a kitten in magma that aren't dying, and yes I have temperature setting on. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-570-magmavspuppy<br /> <br /> For those interested in trying to recreate it, I believe it has to do with designating the animal to slaughter while trying to throw it into a pit. A few of my dwarves were having pathing errors to try and slaughter them when I noticed the 3 invulnerable pests. After saving and reloading, the critters were insta-gibbed.<br /> --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 04:59, 23 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Chasm Confusion ==<br /> <br /> &quot;The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores.&quot;<br /> <br /> Magma, at least in my experience, has always been surrounded only by Obsidian, as a result you cannot get any kind of insight as to the surrounding minerals, this differs from a chasm where the veins coming up to a chasm are directly reflected in the walls.<br /> <br /> --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 04:18, 26 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> :volcanoes and magmapipes can form large &quot;chasms&quot; above them, though it depends on how rocky the map is<br /> :Confirmed, various minerals and gems were visible in the 'crater' area two levels above the magma in my magma pipe. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:05, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == gruesome accident in reall really older 2d version ==<br /> <br /> beware wooden floodgates<br /> not only do they burn(as I planned)<br /> but i scattered magma all around the room<br /> it rolled around quickly in all directions, flooding the tunnels, burning miners, smelters, war dogs and puppies alike without remorse.<br /> it has thus far filled the entire message screen with &quot; someone&quot; or &quot;something&quot; has burned to death <br /> it appears to gain mass from creeping down hallways! oh god...<br /> 60 deaths, at least 25 dwarves and 15 puppies22:08, 28 July 2008 (EDT)[[User:Eerr|Eerr]]<br /> <br /> == Magma cooling? ==<br /> <br /> Ive noticed at a 1/7 depth, the magma seems to cool and go away. v40d --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:28, 3 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : That is probably what the author meant by &quot;Magma that is only 1 deep &quot;evaporates&quot; over time.&quot; [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 19:58, 3 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Mechanisms on Non-Floodgates ==<br /> <br /> I want to power my underground smelting operations with magma, so I'm digging a tunnel into the side of a magma pipe. I don't want magma creatures coming in that way, so I need a set of [[bars]] across it. However, once I set up the bars, I need to open them to get a miner past and cut the last bit of stone and open the tunnel to the magma. I was going to just attach the bars to a level, but the question of what to use for the [[mechanism]] is bugging me. I don't want to waste my precious imported [[Bauxite]] on the mechanism, and once it closes behind the miner it never need to open again so it's fine it it melts, but not if the melting mechanism will cause the bars to deconstruct! Anyone know what happens to things other than floodgates when their mechanisms get melted off?<br /> --17:11, 7 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : Or you could make your life much simpler with [[Fortifications]]. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :: How? [[Fortification|Fortifications]] allow liquid to pass through and stop creatures, yes, but you can't open them ''at all''. How am I supposed to get my dwarf back after he digs the last square of the channel if there's a fortification blocking the way?--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 15:49, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::I used a fortification to keep fire imps out of my magma channel; I dug a stairway totally unconnected to the rest of my fortress to a spot adjacent to the top layer of the magma pipe, then dug a tunnel from within the fortress to within one tile of the stairway. I fortified the tile that separated the two, then dug a channel (from outside) that let the magma flow against the &quot;outside&quot; face of the fortification. The magma flowed through the fortification and into the &quot;inside&quot; tunnel.<br /> <br /> :::For good measure, in case I want to drain the inside tunnel at some point, I put an s-turn in the inside tunnel and situated a nickel/bauxite floodgate around the corner, out of sight of the fortification.<br /> <br /> :::Viewed from above, basically it looks like this:<br /> <br /> ~============<br /> ~~=====..X...<br /> ~~=====.=====<br /> ~~=&lt;#...=====<br /> ~~===========<br /> ~============<br /> <br /> ~ - Magma pipe<br /> = - Unmined tile (wall)<br /> . - Mined tile (channel)<br /> &lt; - Stairway<br /> # - Fortification<br /> X - Floodgate<br /> <br /> :::The last step here is to remove the tile between the magma and the stairway by digging a channel from one z-level up.<br /> :::--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::Why do you need a stairway? Couldn't you have just put the fortification on the tile where you have the stairway now? I'm also not sure why you need a turn as opposed to having the floodgate directly in line; i.e. {{qd|cols=7|~|`|╬|{{qd/ch{{!}}X{{!}}888|ccc}}|.|.|.}} <br /> ::::[[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:55, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::I believe you can't create a fortification from above, though I could be wrong. It doesn't cost anything to dig one extra z-level down to get yourself a tile with an open face front and back which fortifies up nicely. Also, I put the kink in the tunnel just to be paranoid -- I don't want things shooting fireballs down it. I'm not sure if a fireball can destroy a floodgate. Again, it didn't cost me anything to make it a touch more elaborate.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::Well, if I dug in from above, I could just use a non-retracting set of bars. Fortifications allow liquid to flow, but they slow it down. But I'm not digging at the top level of the pipe. I suppose I could just use a sacrificial non-magma-safe floodgate, set up the bars behind it, and then open it and let it melt.<br /> ::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:20, 17 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Magma Ate My Wall ==<br /> While digging my channel to a magma pipe, I came across a vein of Lignite which ran perpendicular to my channel. I mined it out, hauled the lignite over to my fortress, and then built some walls over the side passages. It's now less than a year later, and one of those wall-units is missing. Unless there's some way a fire imp or other magma creature can destroy walls, the magma must have melted the wall. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 07:12, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Wasn't that wall a Lignite wall ? It may have burnt, then. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:46, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :Yes, it sounds like it was a liginite wall. Magma will ignite coke-bearing rock, this has been the case for a long time. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:56, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :: No, the wall was built from rock salt. All the lignite was hauled away, and as an economic stone, not a material choice I could have made by accident. The floor is still lignite though. Think that may have been a factor? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:58, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::That's possible, but I find it unlikely. Also, I misinterpreted what you meant by 'built a wall', didn't realize it was a construction. I thought it was a smoothed rock face. It's been a persisting question (at least in #df on synIRC) if magma will melt constructions not made of bauxite. You may have just answered that for us. Perhaps you could test by letting magma into a 5x5 room with one natural rock pillar in the middle, and a wall construction of the same type of stone? That'd answer the question once and for all, I think. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:11, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::I've had magma against some of my constructed walls for years and years without damage. A good thing too, I've got quarters on the other side! They're almost certainly basalt. I wouldn't rule out the vanishing wall being caused by a burning floor; lignite can burn for years before vanishing. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:14, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> ::::Interesting. It was probably the liginite floor, then, but that begs the question of how a burning floor could consume a wall; stone should be fire-safe. A really interesting situation, to be sure. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::Also -- as for 'not a material choice I could have made by accident', I've found my masons will happily convert expensive imported ores and flux into blocks if they decide your depot's closer than the nearest basalt. And once anything's blocked, it's useless but for constructions. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:39, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::::: @Corona: That's for a mason's workshop, though. When you build walls, you choose the specific rocks to build from. Although, I have to say that I've never had a mason use a rock from the restricted list.<br /> ::::: For clarity, here's an image capture. The east-west shaft was my original tunnel towards the magma pipe. Every mined-out tile north or south of that shaft was Lignite. However, the opening just below the cursor, where my missing wall is supposed to be, is listed as Rock Salt as well. This is because dwarves kept building that section of wall from the wrong side, and I had to deconstruct it and put it back up several times -- which kills our &quot;burning lignite floor&quot; theory. Hrm.....now that I think about it, I can't be sure that I did build that wall in the end. I can't remember if a dwarf ever built it from the correct side. I'll let you know if another wall section disappears.<br /> [[Image:romeofalling1.GIF]]<br /> <br /> --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:54, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Disambiguation ==<br /> <br /> I see the term ''magma pipe'' and ''magma vent'' being used interchangeably. Do these terms mean the same thing? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:25, 8 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Basically, yes. Magma vents, however, are visible from the surface, whereas magma pipes are not. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:26, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Magma Vs. Sand ==<br /> <br /> In a failed experiment with wooden screw pumps with magma proof blocks, I have discovered something horrible and intriguing. Magma/lava can burn it's way through sand, so now I have an above ground magma cistern half flooding back into the magma pipe I filled it from, and half into my underground workshops through 2 z-levels of sand flooring. I have picture proof too, but I have no idea how to upload pictures from my laptop to a wiki. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Screw_pump&diff=43114 2008-11-11T19:10:06Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Pumping Magma? */</p> <hr /> <div>{{archive|<br /> #[[Talk:Screw pump|Current discussion]]<br /> #[[Talk:Screw pump/archive1|Archive1]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Archiving ==<br /> <br /> See [[/archive1]] for discussions before July '08.<br /> Most discussion was regarding page development which has been implemented. There are a few comments which might help people trying to work things out but most of it is in the article.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:56, 5 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> ==Two versions of the L-shaped tunnels design==<br /> As I said when I removed it, there is no point having two. Do not add mine back in again. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 21:57, 25 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> You'd also cut how to set up water wheels &amp; connect them to the pump tower. I wasn't 100% certain how to diagram connecting the wheels to the smaller tower design so I thought it best to restore the whole section until someone added that into the L-shape design. [[User:Calenth|Calenth]]<br /> <br /> == Pumping Magma? ==<br /> <br /> Would this work if the pump was made of magma-safe materials? --[[User:Mizzy|Mizzy]] 21:10, 27 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Please check a talk page's [[Talk:Screw_pump/archive1#Materials_for_magma_pumps|archives]] before asking a question. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 02:46, 28 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :An edit to the [[Stupid dwarf trick]] page implied that only the blocks need be made of magma-safe materials. This needs to be studied further. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 17:28, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::I have been building magma pumps out of wood (pipe/screw) and stone blocks for ages now; there are no detrimental effects. Since non-bauxite/non-raw adamantine stones are not magma safe, presumably a wooden block will work as well (a waste of logs if you have stone, though). It is only an issue if any part of the pump (namely, the walkable end) is going to be submerged in magma. You're probably working with a poor design if your pumps are submerged in what they're pumping, but whatever. In that case your best bet is to use green glass tubes/screws/blocks, if you have sand. Metal is a last resort. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 20:59, 27 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::Wait - glass is magma-safe? what's its melting point? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 23:29, 27 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::Glass itself appears to be hardcoded and from what I can tell does not have a melting point. Pretty sure glass is magma safe. I have never had problems with it. It's a nice way to get infinite tubes and corkscrews. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 23:27, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::Just tried to build a pump using a nickel block with a wooden screw and a wooden tube. All it created was a huge mess and a bit of smoke and fire. Luckily, the pump is separated enough from my fort that I can just let the magma cool before moving back in.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 00:57, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :Did you make sure the magma coming out of the pump (on the same z-level of the pump) couldn't go back around and over the back of the pump? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:56, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Hmm...actually, I had to cut a whole because the dwarf who constructed it had the bright idea to get himself stuck by standing on the walkable tile. I guess maybe I should put a door there to allow access while blocking the magma next time to make sure it work.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 12:59, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Tested this again. There is no problem using a wooden Archimedes screw (giant wood screw+giant pipe) to pump magma as long as the block used is magma proof and magma does not leak around to the passable tile. The second that happens, though, the pump bursts into flame.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 02:29, 29 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::Upon further testing, it seems that wooden magma pumps can work, but only for so long. As soon as the magma reaches a certain height, it burns up the wood and pushes the burn-proof block out of the way. I just lost about 10 worker dwarves in a accident trying to create an above ground lava cistern for my glass fortress, as soon as it reached an average level of about 5, the pump gave way. Between those deaths and the ones from the recent goblin ambush, I fear my fortress will devolve into madness and tantrums any day now. ADDENDUM: I would also like to add that the magma has just ''burned a hole through 2 z-levels of sand'' and is now flooding my workshops. It seems that the red liquid deserves a lot more respect and caution in the latest release. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]]<br /> <br /> == Self powered pumps ==<br /> <br /> So I'm just starting a new fortress, its got everything but an easy to make moat, but there is a river start to the east a little and two or three levels lower than my entrance. So, what I'm wondering is, is there some easy way to get a hydraulic powered pump going off of the power of the water being pumped (after the dwarves do the initial pumping). Also if anyone has diagrams or something of how to easily bring water up two or three levels (or possibly higher if theres some advantage to having water fall from a height). Sorry if this is kind of stupid or answered or anything, last time I played the game it had 1 level and I never got too much into mechanics farther than floodgates (lots of complicated and redundant floodgates as I recall) so I've never tried a pump or waterwheel. I'd rather not screw up this map (its just short of perfect, major magnemite deposits with limestone being the main component to the mountain overall, access to every civ, its Cold [I'm from Canada so I like the cold], has good hunting and a major river start). Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 15:43, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Place a waterwheel in the original river to supply power. You can raise water multiple levels by the methods described [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|here]]. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:01, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:57, 1 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Note that if you bring the water up higher than the moat, it '''will''' (not might. will.) overtop your moat. That's a good way to flood your fortress. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:07, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> An example of the [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|multi-level pump]] including power source, gear assemblies and axles would pretty much make my entire month. Anyone up to the challenge? Pretty please? [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 22:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Wait, the stacked pumps transmit power upwards ''through themselves''? I didn't realise that - if it's true, then the whole L-shaped tunnels section is unrequired and should probably be removed. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 06:05, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> : I've been playing around with this for the last week or so. I completely missed the bit where you need to have a channel underneath the front end of the pump in order for power to transmit (you put the channel under the front end so that the pump blocks the water). You can also draw water from a stairway or into a stairway. And since water pressure will push water up z-levels, you don't actually need to stack your pumps. In other words:<br /> <br /> <br /> 0-lvl all others levels<br /> ~www~ ..... www a waterwheel<br /> ..|.. ..... | pumps from<br /> .#V#. .###. v the north<br /> .#X#. .#X#. X into up/down stairway<br /> .###. .###. # surrounded by walls<br /> ..... .....<br /> <br /> That should work for a substantial height. Sadly, my current river is filled with carp, so I won't be able to find out for a while. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 08:49, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Front vs rear ==<br /> <br /> Do I understand correctly that the 'front' tile (i.e. blocks water flow) is the one where the water comes out of?<br /> <br /> Sort of - it actually just 'spawns' water in the tile on the opposite side of that tile from the rear walkable tile, an amount equal to that which is removed a z-level down. --[[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]] 16:19, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> But either way, the output side blocks flow (so if in a narrow channel water cannot backflow through the pump if it is turned off), right? I need to know this for a design. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:31, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : Yes, you are correct. I too was confused by the use of the word &quot;front&quot;, as my perception is that the &quot;front&quot; of a pump would be where the water goes in, not out. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 04:14, 18 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Alternate vs. other ==<br /> <br /> Alternate generally means &quot;in turn&quot; or &quot;in place of&quot; -- not &quot;as an alternative&quot;.[http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000296.htm][http://cjrarchives.org/tools/lc/alt.asp] But &quot;alternative&quot; can have its own problems,[http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/alternate.html] which is why I would recommend &quot;other uses&quot; here.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 22 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :While I appreciate the need for clarity, I don't think either word particularly changes the scope, knowledge, breadth or content of the page. I suggest that both words work equally well. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:31, 22 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::May I ask for people's permission, then, to change it to 'other'? The function of the page may not be substantially affected by it, but I hate to be unable to correct what I understand to be an error. 'Course, if no one agrees, I'll let it drop.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 11:28, 23 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::I support other! [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 14:09, 11 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Pump + Stairs = Win? ==<br /> <br /> Is there any reason why I can't use the stairs as the open space that I'm pumping water from?<br /> <br /> Side View Top Views Key<br /> ###### ###### <br /> #v-&gt;__ #v-&gt;^# -&gt; or &lt;- : Direction of pump<br /> #^&lt;-v# ###### v : down stairs<br /> #v-&gt;^# #^&lt;-v# ^ : up stairs<br /> #^&lt;-v# ###### # : Wall<br /> ____^# _ : space<br /> <br /> I came up with this right after exiting the game. I'll try it out soon. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:02, 23 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :No reason you couldn't, but it'd be rather silly as your dwarves can't walk through the pump. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:58, 28 October 2008 (EDT)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Screw_pump&diff=43112 2008-11-11T19:07:30Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Pumping Magma? */</p> <hr /> <div>{{archive|<br /> #[[Talk:Screw pump|Current discussion]]<br /> #[[Talk:Screw pump/archive1|Archive1]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Archiving ==<br /> <br /> See [[/archive1]] for discussions before July '08.<br /> Most discussion was regarding page development which has been implemented. There are a few comments which might help people trying to work things out but most of it is in the article.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:56, 5 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> ==Two versions of the L-shaped tunnels design==<br /> As I said when I removed it, there is no point having two. Do not add mine back in again. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 21:57, 25 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> You'd also cut how to set up water wheels &amp; connect them to the pump tower. I wasn't 100% certain how to diagram connecting the wheels to the smaller tower design so I thought it best to restore the whole section until someone added that into the L-shape design. [[User:Calenth|Calenth]]<br /> <br /> == Pumping Magma? ==<br /> <br /> Would this work if the pump was made of magma-safe materials? --[[User:Mizzy|Mizzy]] 21:10, 27 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Please check a talk page's [[Talk:Screw_pump/archive1#Materials_for_magma_pumps|archives]] before asking a question. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 02:46, 28 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :An edit to the [[Stupid dwarf trick]] page implied that only the blocks need be made of magma-safe materials. This needs to be studied further. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 17:28, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::I have been building magma pumps out of wood (pipe/screw) and stone blocks for ages now; there are no detrimental effects. Since non-bauxite/non-raw adamantine stones are not magma safe, presumably a wooden block will work as well (a waste of logs if you have stone, though). It is only an issue if any part of the pump (namely, the walkable end) is going to be submerged in magma. You're probably working with a poor design if your pumps are submerged in what they're pumping, but whatever. In that case your best bet is to use green glass tubes/screws/blocks, if you have sand. Metal is a last resort. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 20:59, 27 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::Wait - glass is magma-safe? what's its melting point? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 23:29, 27 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::Glass itself appears to be hardcoded and from what I can tell does not have a melting point. Pretty sure glass is magma safe. I have never had problems with it. It's a nice way to get infinite tubes and corkscrews. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 23:27, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::Just tried to build a pump using a nickel block with a wooden screw and a wooden tube. All it created was a huge mess and a bit of smoke and fire. Luckily, the pump is separated enough from my fort that I can just let the magma cool before moving back in.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 00:57, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :Did you make sure the magma coming out of the pump (on the same z-level of the pump) couldn't go back around and over the back of the pump? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:56, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Hmm...actually, I had to cut a whole because the dwarf who constructed it had the bright idea to get himself stuck by standing on the walkable tile. I guess maybe I should put a door there to allow access while blocking the magma next time to make sure it work.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 12:59, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Tested this again. There is no problem using a wooden Archimedes screw (giant wood screw+giant pipe) to pump magma as long as the block used is magma proof and magma does not leak around to the passable tile. The second that happens, though, the pump bursts into flame.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 02:29, 29 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::Upon further testing, it seems that wooden magma pumps can work, but only for so long. As soon as the magma reaches a certain height, it burns up the wood and pushes the burn-proof block out of the way. I just lost about 10 worker dwarves in a accident trying to create an above ground lava cistern for my glass fortress, as soon as it reached an average level of about 5, the pump gave way. Between those deaths and the ones from the recent goblin ambush, I fear my fortress will devolve into madness and tantrums any day now.<br /> <br /> == Self powered pumps ==<br /> <br /> So I'm just starting a new fortress, its got everything but an easy to make moat, but there is a river start to the east a little and two or three levels lower than my entrance. So, what I'm wondering is, is there some easy way to get a hydraulic powered pump going off of the power of the water being pumped (after the dwarves do the initial pumping). Also if anyone has diagrams or something of how to easily bring water up two or three levels (or possibly higher if theres some advantage to having water fall from a height). Sorry if this is kind of stupid or answered or anything, last time I played the game it had 1 level and I never got too much into mechanics farther than floodgates (lots of complicated and redundant floodgates as I recall) so I've never tried a pump or waterwheel. I'd rather not screw up this map (its just short of perfect, major magnemite deposits with limestone being the main component to the mountain overall, access to every civ, its Cold [I'm from Canada so I like the cold], has good hunting and a major river start). Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 15:43, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Place a waterwheel in the original river to supply power. You can raise water multiple levels by the methods described [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|here]]. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:01, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:57, 1 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Note that if you bring the water up higher than the moat, it '''will''' (not might. will.) overtop your moat. That's a good way to flood your fortress. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:07, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> An example of the [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|multi-level pump]] including power source, gear assemblies and axles would pretty much make my entire month. Anyone up to the challenge? Pretty please? [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 22:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Wait, the stacked pumps transmit power upwards ''through themselves''? I didn't realise that - if it's true, then the whole L-shaped tunnels section is unrequired and should probably be removed. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 06:05, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> : I've been playing around with this for the last week or so. I completely missed the bit where you need to have a channel underneath the front end of the pump in order for power to transmit (you put the channel under the front end so that the pump blocks the water). You can also draw water from a stairway or into a stairway. And since water pressure will push water up z-levels, you don't actually need to stack your pumps. In other words:<br /> <br /> <br /> 0-lvl all others levels<br /> ~www~ ..... www a waterwheel<br /> ..|.. ..... | pumps from<br /> .#V#. .###. v the north<br /> .#X#. .#X#. X into up/down stairway<br /> .###. .###. # surrounded by walls<br /> ..... .....<br /> <br /> That should work for a substantial height. Sadly, my current river is filled with carp, so I won't be able to find out for a while. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 08:49, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Front vs rear ==<br /> <br /> Do I understand correctly that the 'front' tile (i.e. blocks water flow) is the one where the water comes out of?<br /> <br /> Sort of - it actually just 'spawns' water in the tile on the opposite side of that tile from the rear walkable tile, an amount equal to that which is removed a z-level down. --[[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]] 16:19, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> But either way, the output side blocks flow (so if in a narrow channel water cannot backflow through the pump if it is turned off), right? I need to know this for a design. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:31, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : Yes, you are correct. I too was confused by the use of the word &quot;front&quot;, as my perception is that the &quot;front&quot; of a pump would be where the water goes in, not out. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 04:14, 18 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Alternate vs. other ==<br /> <br /> Alternate generally means &quot;in turn&quot; or &quot;in place of&quot; -- not &quot;as an alternative&quot;.[http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000296.htm][http://cjrarchives.org/tools/lc/alt.asp] But &quot;alternative&quot; can have its own problems,[http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/alternate.html] which is why I would recommend &quot;other uses&quot; here.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 22 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :While I appreciate the need for clarity, I don't think either word particularly changes the scope, knowledge, breadth or content of the page. I suggest that both words work equally well. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:31, 22 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::May I ask for people's permission, then, to change it to 'other'? The function of the page may not be substantially affected by it, but I hate to be unable to correct what I understand to be an error. 'Course, if no one agrees, I'll let it drop.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 11:28, 23 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Pump + Stairs = Win? ==<br /> <br /> Is there any reason why I can't use the stairs as the open space that I'm pumping water from?<br /> <br /> Side View Top Views Key<br /> ###### ###### <br /> #v-&gt;__ #v-&gt;^# -&gt; or &lt;- : Direction of pump<br /> #^&lt;-v# ###### v : down stairs<br /> #v-&gt;^# #^&lt;-v# ^ : up stairs<br /> #^&lt;-v# ###### # : Wall<br /> ____^# _ : space<br /> <br /> I came up with this right after exiting the game. I'll try it out soon. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:02, 23 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :No reason you couldn't, but it'd be rather silly as your dwarves can't walk through the pump. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:58, 28 October 2008 (EDT)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Strange_mood&diff=5199 2008-11-09T09:07:12Z

<p>Alkyon: </p> <hr /> <div>Does the new version still have the strange mood? It wouldnt be complete without it!<br /> <br /> :It still exists, I've had it happen several times now, I went to the archive wiki and copy/pasted the old page.<br /> <br /> ::Isnt that why the wiki was nuked? To make sure that no old info lingers? Ill put some &quot;verify&quot; in there, I dont think that the bold text is enough for users to understand that some of this may no longer apply. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 06:03, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::I agree. Although moods themselves don't seem to have been changed in this version, the changes to the stones/ores that they use means that some of the information in this article is no longer true. I'll have a go at cleaning it up when I have the proper time for it, but this wiki definitely needs a 'no copypasting from the archives' rule to avoid screwups like this. If people are going to copypaste old stuff, then it is downright irresponsible of them not to verify the accuracy of the information before committing it to the wiki. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]<br /> <br /> I know, I was a huge fan of that little strange aspect of the old one.<br /> <br /> I need my dwarfs to make more swordfish bone swords, and i still need some glass weapons/armor<br /> <br /> The moods seem to have changed. One of my dwarfs went fey, made a nice hematite mug, and is now a legendary... Engraver. Very wierd, he also had no stoneworking or other craftdwarf skills. But he was a competent mason. This was also my fifth dwarf who took the same craftworkshop, so it's a bit strange. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 17:36, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Six fey dwarf, all took the craftdwarfshop, now my bowyer took one. Think it might be a bug. Is the 15 artifacts limit still in? --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:34, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :: Whohoo my second legendary engraver made a gold mug. My bowyer became a legendary engraver. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:40, 8 November 2007 (EST)<br /> ::: Scratch all that, one of my woodworkers just used a carpenters shop. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Have you marked all statements in the article that risks being falsified with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{verify}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:41, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> Hey, I am getting a dwarf who wants &quot;raw...crystal&quot;. Help? -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]<br /> :Probably wants raw crystal glass. I had a dwarf ask for &quot;raw...green&quot;, they wanted raw green glass. Looks like Toady might have moved the glass demands out of the &quot;rough...color&quot; category. [[User:Iddq?|Iddq?]]<br /> <br /> About the engravers taking over craftdwarf's shops and becoming legendary engravers afterwards is quite true. I recently got a bunch of immigrants, and the engraver that came with them fell into a strange mood before even crossing the bridge on my river. He took over a craftdwarf's workshop and made a basalt scepter, and now he's legendary level in engraving. So yeah, perfect laboratory conditions, he was 100% engraver when he went into his mood and came out a legendary engraver. --[[User:Zhang5|Zhang5]] 17:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> It seems that no craft skill is required. I just had a peasant go into a strange mood. His skills were: competent marksdwarf; novice wrestler; novice armor wearer. He grabbed a craftsdwarf's workshop and 10 items (3xFelsite, Schorls, Tigereyes, Red Beryls, Giant cave swallow leather, Grizzly Bear Leather, Rough harlequin opals and Ash logs -- guess he has expensive taste?) and churned out an idol in relatively short order. This is my 9th successful mood in this fortress, and I've seen requests for between 3 and 10 items, personally. Since they seem to be increasing in complexity, I've either hit the item cap, or I'm about to break ten :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:34, 19 November 2007 (EST)<br /> :This is consistent with older versions. Moody peasants would become crafters, and 10 items was the cap. The minimum was 1 item -- generally when constructing a &quot;perfect gem&quot;.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:55, 19 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> I had a miner go into a strange mood, take over a mason's workshop, and make a something that got him up to legendary miner status. In my current fort, I have had 6 artifacts made, 2 of which were actual moods and 5 of which were possessions (I can add, one of them failed and the dwarf became a babbling wreck). My dwarves love to use only one item: an oak door (1 item), an olivine coffin (2 items), a turtle shell mask (1 item and is my cheapest artifiact at 3600), a diorite amulet (3 items), and a perfect jelly opal (1 item). --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> Where to add the info that in my game (.33c) a miner took over a mason's workshop, became legendary miner and then held the artifact in his right hand instead of a pick, which became 'hauled', then droped the pick and then took the pick with his left hand? He can mine after all these. While holding a 667 weight units cabinet in his right hand. --[[User:Another|Another]] 10:07, 1 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> I had dwarf Miller, profecienty Grower who had Fey Mood, and he became a Legendary Mason ....<br /> Is it normal ? [[user:Feydreva|Feydreva]]<br /> <br /> <br /> One of my dwarves has become possessed and is demanding cloth, bones and stone, which I have plenty of. But he refuses to go fetch them. Is there something I'm doing wrong?&lt;small&gt;—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] ([[User talk:Patarak|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Patarak|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}&lt;/small&gt;<br /> : They want either silk or fiber cloth. Make sure you have both! [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 03:40, 21 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> <br /> Aargh! One of my dwarves went secretive and is demanding a huge list of stuff. He seems to be demanding two types of stone because the &quot;sketches quarry&quot; message stays on twice as long as the others. I have (and he has gathered) flint: is there any way to tell what kind of stone he wants? --[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 011:55, 7 March 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> I had a Glassmaker that sat around when I had a lot of Magma Glass Furnaces, but then decided to get going when I made a regular Glass Furnace. Seems like they will only use a specific kind. Not sure yet if it's random. Might be they won't take the Magma Glass Furnace in version 38a. Can anyone verify? --[[User:Afbee|Afbee]] 05:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> : My Glassmaker successfully used Magma Glass Furnace in a fey mood. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 07:54, 24 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :: I just had the same problem. I had a glass maker who wouldn't take over a magma glass furnace. Since I'm creating a glass fortress and had a mess of glass orders piled up, I thought that might have confused the AI and I built 2 more magma glass furnaces. No dice, he didn't want them. After reading this page I decided to create a normal glass furnace. He snapped it up as soon as it was built. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 04:07, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Maximum number of artifacts==<br /> Well, I just got my umpteenth mood, and it resulted in the 16th successfully created artifact.(33b) So that 15 cap thing is clearly wrong. As it happens, this single artifact is worth 754,800, and is an adamantine spear decorated with, among other things, adamantine. For the record, in case this data is important to someone tabulating number of ingredients, my moods in order created the following objects using the corresponding number of ingredients: (Flute, 4; Mechanism, 4; Spear, 3; Millstone, 6; Ring, 8; Chest, 7; Cape, 7; Ring, 9; Statue, 8; Idol, 10; earring, 8; Buckler, 8; Table, 3; Mechanism, 10; Bracelet, 5; and Spear, 8). [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:54, 27 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> Do fell/macabre moods still exist? I haven't seen any for quite a few versions. It'd be nice to have that verified.&lt;small&gt;—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] ([[User talk:Rabek|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rabek|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> == clarification on &quot;trade&quot; skills ==<br /> <br /> Are trade skills all the skills that produce items with some level of quality? Mainly I want to know if dyer is a trade skill. And how does that work with miner? I didn't think miner was a trade skill. Maybe someone who knows more than me could clarify in the wiki.<br /> I just got my first artifact. It's worth 2400. The dwarf took one log and made a scepter. -[[User:Radtse|Radtse]]<br /> <br /> :I don't know exactly, we should make a list of the skills we know are not trade skills. I'll start: my brewer/grower once got a strange mood and made a wood item and gained woodcrafting skill. Let's try to only add to the list when we have experienced a moody dwarf with that skill only.--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 19:36, 27 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::I'm adding Weaver and Furnace Operator to this list, since they're on the wiki. I haven't seen them myself, but I'm assuming someone else has. Knowing that Furnace Operator is a &quot;fey-able&quot; skill will be quite helpful.-[[User:Radtse|Radtse]] 18:28, 29 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::Where's cooking fit in? --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 20:09, 6 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> List of non-trade skills:<br /> <br /> * [[Brewer]]<br /> * [[Grower]]<br /> * [[Miller]]<br /> * [[Wood Cutter]]<br /> <br /> Skills that may be used and gained by dwarves with no trade skills:<br /> <br /> * [[Wood crafter]]<br /> * [[Stone crafter]]<br /> <br /> Skills that use a different skill(See list above), but give correct skill:<br /> <br /> * [[Miner]]<br /> * [[Engraver]]<br /> * [[Furnace Operator]]<br /> * [[Weaver]]<br /> <br /> :::For the record, i can confirm both Furnace Operator and Weaver, since no one else has commented to verify them thus far. (The weaver actually surprised me when it happened). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 29 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::I can confirm that a Miner will claim a Mason's shop, and produce a stone item, even with no Mason skill at all. It works just like the wiki says. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 23:47, 31 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::And I can confirm that Wood Cutter does not contribute -- I had a Novice Glassmaker/No Prefix Wood Cutter take a glass furnace. [[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 13:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == mood condition ==<br /> The 20 dwarves / no crazy stuff has been found while looking at the binary of v0.27.169.33d, might be different now, but i don't think so. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 15:08, 2 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> <br /> Regarding the calulations for required maximum existing artifacts (items/200 and dugout/(48*48)) wouldn't it make more sense to either use the squared symbol, or the actual result of that square (which was the original number actually discovered/revealed I believe)? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:17, 28 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> :&lt;su&lt;b&gt;&lt;/b&gt;p&gt;2&lt;/su&lt;b&gt;&lt;/b&gt;p&gt; --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 21:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :20 dorf must be still there. I've made low-population fort and I had no mood for ~8 years (from start). I'm sure that I've digged at least 2700 tiles and created at least 300 items. I will test if raising population to 20 will cause moods. I think that 20 dwarf limit should be mentioned even if it's not confirmed. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 18:30, 26 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Random Workshop Seizure ==<br /> <br /> I just had a gem cutter seize a carpenter's workshop and make a perfect gem; upon completion I had a worthless Legendary dwarf and a new jeweler's workshop, so I guess that's still in from the previous version. I've removed the verify in the article. [[User:Tacroy|Tacroy]] 16:51, 9 January 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :nonsense. Should be a bigger chance of making ZOMG high-quality gem crafts now ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 07:35, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::More to the point, if you don't like the profession your dwarf has Legendary in...draft for the stats! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 18 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> == forbidden items ==<br /> <br /> Do moody dwarfs use forbidden items? Will they demand forbid items? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 02:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :I don't know whether moody dwarves will use forbidden items (my guess would be they won't). But they don't choose the demands based on what is on the map, they can and do demand things you don't have. So it's safe to assume forbidding doesn't prevent dwarves from demanding the forbidden kind of item. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Forbidden items are not used. Similarly, if your mooder slipped in e.g. an iron bar when you wanted him to use a platinum bar, you can forbid AND dump the item to stop him from using it. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:35, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Impossible Requests? ==<br /> Will dwarves try to use items that you just don't have access to? I had a dwarf asking for silk when I haven't imported any and I'm pretty sure there isn't a giant spider anywhere. Also asking for &quot;rocks&quot; when I have mined at least one of each type of rock that is visible (requiring rocks from unmined areas seem pretty harsh). Also a request for &quot;metal bars&quot; when I have smeltered at least one of each ore I have found and made at least one of each possible alloy. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:27, 26 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :Yeah, impossible stuff is all my dwarves ever want. :-P Right now mine appears to want stone I don't have, and no traders have come by with any stone.... So my guys are frantically mining in various directions.... [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 13:59, 7 March 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::As far as i can tell they never request anything it is truly impossible for you to get. Available by trade seems to imply possible for the game engine though. Too bad if its the start of winter (which is when all my moods which require things I don't have and can't produce happen, of course). But if there's no sand on your map at all you will not be asked for glass, since you can't trade for sand. (If there's 5 tiles of sand under that underground lake you haven't found yet... sucks to be you - my first fortress lost 3 dwarves to this). So yes, requiring things present on the map that you haven't found yet appears to be possible and routine. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:48, 29 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Procastinator! ==<br /> <br /> I just had a moody dwarf demand bones, wood, rocks, and cloth. <br /> <br /> He got the rocks okay, and then did nothing for ages. Then, as soon as the fire imp corpse rotted away, he ran down and got the bones, then ran over to my wood stockpile and got a piece of wood...<br /> <br /> Do they need to get their ingredients in order now?--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 06:28, 29 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :i think so, not that it matters, he wont start unless he has ALL the ingridents.<br /> <br /> == gems ==<br /> My moody dwarf asked for 2 kinds of rough gems, but i had cut all rough ones at that point. So i &quot;printed out&quot; all layers and started checking for leftover gems in the walls. Guess what, he picked the first 2 kinds i mined. So either<br /> <br /> * random/pure luck (don't think so)<br /> * they only ask what they &quot;see&quot;<br /> * they only ask what is somehow on the map<br /> * or they might even adapt somewhat to availability, but i doubt that. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:59, 28 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> :I believe, but don't know for sure, that sometimes they want specific items and sometimes they just want anything in a category of items, such as any rough gems in this case. It used to work that way in the 2d version, didn't it? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:23, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Confirming behaviour that BahamutZERO sees. Dwarves will '''always''' grab the closest object that falls under the category unless he is requesting a specific metal, specific silk, or specific plant fiber cloth. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:25, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Just standing around? ==<br /> <br /> I have a dwarf who was possessed, but won't leave the main hall. He's also a novice in everything, but to be safe I've already cleared the shops. It's winter of my first year, but somehow I've already had 2 waves of immigrants. Back to the point, I'm afraid he's going to wait out the mood and go berserk. Help?<br /> --[[User:Ilmmad|Ilmmad]] 20:00, 6 March 2008 (EST)<br /> :Well, make sure u ve got one workshop of every possible kind available - there are however quite a few u dont need to build, its covered in the article. Check for locked doors or otherwise blocked access (bridges, channels, statues..) Dont forget furnaces, glass and magma. Check with 'q' if all workshops are completely build. If it doesnt help consider building workshops not related to his skills, or more &quot;exotic&quot; ones, like Ashery or Alchemist. No one can guarantee that Toady didnt have some new fun ideas ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:59, 6 March 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == stark raving suicide ==<br /> <br /> My mechanic wanted silk cloth, which I didn't have, and eventually gone insane (&quot;stark raving mad&quot; to be precise).<br /> Seconds after that I had message that he died in heat (I had artificial magma pool nearby).<br /> He probably jumped into the pool like in melancholy. Main article states that only melancholic dwarves kill themselves in such way.<br /> Could anyone confirm that mad ones do that too, and this wasn't just an accident/bug? [[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 16:59, 19 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Perhaps it ''was'' an accident -- I seem to recall that &quot;stark raving mad&quot; ones wander around at random. Perhaps it wandered into the lava. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 18:30, 19 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Glassmaker with no glass ==<br /> <br /> I had an immigrant glassworker get a mood, seize a glass workshop, and created an artifact made entirely of gemstones. No glass involved or asked for. (No sand on the map, anyway.) He turned into a Legendary Glassworker, despite having never made a glass anything.<br /> <br /> == Rewrite ==<br /> <br /> I think I got most of the old information and then some into the new article. Please make any necessary modifications. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 01:22, 10 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Silk Cloth ==<br /> <br /> I had a dwarf demand silk cloth, but he refused to use my giant cave spider silk cloth. I didn't have any regular cave spider silk cloth. To verify that the silk was the problem, I used Companion to change the silk demand to any stone, and he immediately collected the rest of the materials and constructed the artifact.<br /> Can anyone else confirm that giant cave spider silk cloth does '''not''' count as silk cloth? --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:55, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> :No, I'm pretty sure I can't. I've seen a dwarf grab GCS silk.&lt;br&gt;Could it be that you had thread and not cloth? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:59, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Nope, giant cave spider cloth [3] sorted under cloth on the stock screen. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 16:52, 13 May 2008 (EDT) <br /> Probably they may specifically require GCS silk or specifically require CS silk. &amp;mdash;[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 14:10, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> I figured it out - the silk was outside and I had accidentally left &quot;Dwarves Stay Inside&quot; on after the latest attack. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:52, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Engineer taken by secretive mood, and creates... ==<br /> <br /> Evidently engineers who are taken by a secretive mood (&quot;withdraws from society&quot;, in case it's later determined that the descriptor has an effect) will have no problems taking over the mechanic's workshop. And there's only one thing mechanic-shops build - that's right, you heard right, ladies and gentlemen, I present ''Kodor ós: A claystone mechanism''. It's even available for use from the appropriate {{k|b}})uild screens. He decided to make this splendid 86,400o creation while on an eight-mechanism binge in that very same mechanic's workshop. Maybe dwarves choose the workshop they've been in the most often? --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Ah, actually I can confirm I've had a Mechanic create an artifact mechanism as well. Stick some obsidian swords in that baby and you'll be good to go! That should probably go in the main article for skills vs workshops... I would expect siege engineers also have strange moods, but I imagine pump op and siege op fall under the general craftsman catch-all --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 15:45, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::I'd like to smack BismuthBismuthBismuth with the facts stated in the article.<br /> A dwarf will claim a workshop according to their highest applicable skill<br /> ::In this case it was Engineering and therefore your mechanic went to a Mechanic's Workshop. It's the same with the possessed glassmakers. They hit a glassmaker's shop. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:49, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::I'd like to hit GreyMario-Maria, preferably in the upper-body region, with the fact that at the time of my post, the table in the article did not mention mechanics whatsoever. --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 22:26, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::Pardon me, but I was not aware that ''mechanics'' worked at a ''mechanic's workshop'', where objects are created that have ''quality mofidiers'' and can thus become ''artifacts''. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:28, 13 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::::Pardon me as well, but it seems that the table in [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&amp;oldid=25231 this particular revision] did not encapsulate this information. '''GreyMario is throwing a tantrum!''' --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:22, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Mechanics. Work at a mechanic's workshop. Produce items which have visible quality modifiers. Items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to be artifacts. THEREFORE, mechanics claim mechanic's workshops when they go fey. Seriously, logic sometimes, please? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:30, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::::::That would follow if we knew for certain that the proposition &quot;items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to artifacts&quot; is necessarily true. We don't. For instance, siege engine components are &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; verified as artifact eligible. Since that isn't a given, it's perfectly reasonable for people to not jump to the conclusion that a job type will create artifacts relevant to it until they see it happen. &amp;mdash;[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 16:26, 14 May 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> i love the absurd randomness factor with artifacts - you end up with really weird stuff. like grates, and socks. a question pertinent to legendary mechanisms - i got a stupidly valuable one of these as the first legendary item in a new fort and i used it to create a gear assembly in a public dining area in the hopes that it would give dwarves happy thoughts, but after a few years gametime of checking randomly on them nothing particular showed up. any particular use along these lines for legendary mechanisms for something other then simple fortress value? --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 11:51, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> : weapon traps! --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 12:03, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> :: FWIW, that might be a more general answer for artifact items... I had a Weaponsmith dwarf go into a strange mood and create a lead warhammer (Yes, there was plenty of steel and iron around, but this dwarf likes lead, I guess). It can't be equipped as a weapon (lead isn't a valid material type normally for constructing weapons) but I can put it into a weapons trap. Which... is basically the only thing I can do with this 65000* artifact... -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:37, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::: Actually, artifact equipment can be used, it just requires a &quot;hero&quot; level dwarf or higher. However, for the nonstandard material weapons and armor you may do well to forbid them so that they're not used. The actual effectiveness of odd material artifacts is supposedly lower than that of decent iron or steel equipment, and artifact equipment cannot be unequipped once a dwarf decides to use it. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 15:36, 10 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Tanner fixed ==<br /> <br /> I just had a Tanner claim a leather works, not a tannery. I updated the table. For the record, the dwarf has no skill level in leather working.<br /> <br /> :I wonder if Tanners even claim Tanner's shops? Tanner's shops just make leather, and leather doesn't have quality modifiers, so you shouldn't be able to produce an artifact from one, aye? That information came from an older version of the page, I wonder if it was inaccurate. Weavers supposed claim Clothier's shops and not Looms, so it would make sense if Tanners were the same way. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 18:08, 2 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Cooks ==<br /> <br /> I can confirm that cooks do not produce artifacts: my Peasant with Dabbling Cook/Brewer/(various social) and nothing else just took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop. I'm removing the verify tag for cooks in the article. --[[User:Comonad|Comonad]] 16:16, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> mmmm. . . . artifact roast. [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 19:12, 4 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Soapers etc. ==<br /> <br /> It stands to reason that soapers, lye makers, and wood burners wouldn't make artifacts. Neither soap, lye, charcoal, nor ash have quality modifiers, and that's all those skills can produce. I'm pretty sure you can't have artifact soap, lye, charcoal, or ash. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 20:26, 11 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : My woodburner just got possessed. He wants a shell and wood. I have the shell but I'm not sure what type of wood he wants. --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 20:18, 22 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Not all demands need to be met ==<br /> <br /> I just had a dwarf taken by a secretive mood and collect a huge variety of things: 4 stone, 1 block, 1 gem, 2 rough gems, bones, a shell, 2 leather. He was further sketching for more bones, 2 leather, another stone, a log, another shell, and raw green glass. The only things I didn't have on hand were the shell and the green glass -- dwarves seem to go through their list in order, and get stuck on certain items. <br /> <br /> I just hoped someone would eat a turtle (50/1678 chance!) and queued a raw green glass. When the glass was made, he got started, totally ignoring his previous requests for wood, another shell, and the other things. Anyone else have this experience? [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 13:28, 13 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I think they keep sketching images even after they get the items. Your dwarf already had all of the shells, leather, bones, stones, blocks, and gems he needed. [[User:Curudan|Curudan]] 15:26, 22 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::This is correct. I've had dwarves run out, grab two items, and then sit at the Workshop shouting a need for three items. When the item he was waiting on became available, he ran out, grabbed it, went back in, and started working. So it's pretty evident that they list ALL of the items they want, regardless of how many of them they've already collected. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 22:28, 23 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Possession ==<br /> <br /> I've had 14 moods in my current Fortress, 11 of them have been possessions. Am I really unlucky, or is the type of mood weighted? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 26 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> : As far as I can tell by looking at the game logic, each mood types are as likely to be rolled (except fell of course, which is selected if happiness&lt;rand(128) or something like that). --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:56, 3 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> :: I had a feeling I was just getting really unlucky, thanks. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:34, 3 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Furnace Operator ==<br /> <br /> Apparently furnace operator is no longer a mood skill as of df 28 181 40d. I just had a expert furnace operator take over a Craftdwarf's Workshop and become a legendary stonecrafter. [[User:Otherdwarf|Otherdwarf]] 10:26, 1 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Chunk Butchery? ==<br /> <br /> Well, even though the selection of items for artifacts is totally random, its a bit wierd if a macabre dwarf goes to a butcher's workshop and starts bringing in tons of dwarf CHUNKS! My dwarf just started doing that, should I expect rotting meat (yes, the chunks are already rotten)? - 09:57, 30 October 2008 Stinhad Limarezum <br /> : ^_^ &quot;This is a delicious meat pie. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. On the item is an image of a dwarf and dwarves in rotting dwarf chunks. The dwarf is baking the other dwarves into meat pies. The artwork relates to the rise of the dwarf butcher Sweeney Todd as the cook of The Fleet Street in 78&quot; -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:11, 30 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Oh, ''do'' post the description of the artifact when the dwarf completes it. (&quot;Menaces with spikes of dwarf chunk?&quot; I'd be intimidated for sure.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:18, 30 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == What Workshop? ==<br /> <br /> Is there &lt;em&gt;any&lt;/em&gt; way to discover what workshop a dwarf in a secretive mood requires? I had nearly everything. I built a siege workshop and a bowery before I ran out of ideas and he went beserk. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 10:55, 3 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :You have to look at what skills he has first and rule out the obvious. If he has no mood-able skills then it's going to be a craftsdwarf's workshop. If you have hit magma and he wants a forge or glass furnace, he will insist on the magma version of that workshop. Finally, maybe one of your existing workshops was inaccessible or you accidentally [[forbid]] it at some point. If none of that works, I'm out of ideas too.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:01, 3 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Possessed Child ==<br /> <br /> I have a child that has become possessed and taken over one of my craft workshops (of course). He is muttering the following: rough color, leather skin, bone yes, stone rock, cloth thread, blocks bricks, and a shell. He has already acquired the following: turtle bones, donkey bones [4], microcline blocks, turtle shell, rough pink garnets, dog leather, carp leather, and hematite. I have plenty of all the things that he's already gathered, so I'm assuming that he doesn't need anymore of those items. That leaves the thread. I have turned off my auto-loom a while ago so that I would keep the thread around for artifacts. I currently have plenty of plant thread (4 pig tail and 14 rope reed) and enough spider silk (5). What I don't have is giant spider silk. I have confirmed that the child has access to all these items, including the thread which I have piles next to his workshop. Still he doesn't start construction.<br /> <br /> Can any help? Is there a difference for artifact creation between regular cave spider silk and giant cave spider silk? ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]<br /> <br /> :Do you have both silk and plant cloth available? (Not just thread.) And do you see any specific cloth preferences in his thoughts and preferences screen?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:32, 6 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::Argh. I bet that's it. No silk cloth, just thread. I have had guys go crazy for lack of thread before, so I never make silk cloth, just kept the thread. Oh well, the child is now melancholy. I can re-load and see what would happen if I make the thread into cloth. Maybe I'll test that out. ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]<br /> <br /> ::: Wouldn't you be able to solve this problem by only weaving dyed thread? Then you'll always have some thread waiting to be dyed. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 03:04, 6 November 2008 (EST)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Exploratory_mining&diff=39177 2008-11-09T09:04:27Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Separate section on effectively finding magma vents and underground rivers? */</p> <hr /> <div>This is a guide on how to search for valuable materials by mining.&lt;br&gt;<br /> ...why is there any use for it? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:52, 13 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I think it's useful. The need for more resources, unless you're extremely lucky in the beginning, is not satisfied by the fort's initial digging efforts or its natural expansion. This usually leads to the need to dig in order to reveal large areas, and more often not, the most intuitive method the player thinks up is not the most efficient for their situation. Mining labor, being pretty scarce even for a medium sized fortress, shouldn't be squandered by using an inefficient method, especially if you want fast results.<br /> :--[[User:AlienChickenPie|AlienChickenPie]] 04:13, 14 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Mining labor? Scarce? O.o.<br /> ::Grab a few peasant immigrants (or miner immigrants if you get any - they come with picks), get picks for them, and start them mining. If you mine out a significant area (like, &quot;enough that you want more than two miners&quot;) you'll have legendary miners within a year.<br /> ::But alright. I do agree that efficiency in exploratory mining is useful, since without it you ruin the area and get lots of useless stone. However, I argue that this article states things that should not be in a manual of any sort: We don't tell you how to make your fortress. We tell you what happens when X happens and we tell you what to do to get Y.<br /> ::But you still disagree, I assume? Alright. If it really is bad, the article will get deleted/shrunk/merged. If it isn't, we should do it right.<br /> ::&lt;nowiki&gt;*brings out the umkey*&lt;/nowiki&gt;<br /> ::--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:18, 14 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::I see what you're getting at, it would definitely be wrong to state design tips as facts or tell people how to build their fortress.<br /> :::However, this article is intended to be a technical guide to mining methods, not a style guide. I'd like to make it as neutral and factual as possible.<br /> :::Going over it again, I noticed that parts of it are written inappropriately for a technical article. For example, the usability part definitely steps quite a bit over the line, and I wouldn't mind seeing it removed or altered to contain only necessary facts.<br /> :::--[[User:AlienChickenPie|AlienChickenPie]] 14:10, 14 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Proposal: Diagonal pattern ==<br /> <br /> Would it be useful to add this pattern?<br /> &lt;div style=&quot;font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%&quot;&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;<br /> ▒▒.▒▒▒▒.▒▒<br /> ▒.▒▒▒▒.▒▒▒<br /> .▒▒▒▒.▒▒▒▒<br /> ▒▒▒▒.▒▒▒▒.<br /> ▒▒▒.▒▒▒▒.▒<br /> &lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<br /> * Labor: 20% of the tiles are excavated.<br /> * Scarcity: Any scarcity. Clusters as small as a single tile are revealed.<br /> * Visibility: 100%.<br /> * Reusability: With a bit of imagination you can build nice 3x3 rooms<br /> <br /> I usually dig a diagonal squares with the sides 25 tiles long. And use this pattern later. (See Minepoint at map archive). It shows (almost) every vein...[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 09:16, 14 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I fixed the formatting. Hope you don't mind. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:18, 14 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Not at all. I was hoping that someone would come over and give it a proper wiki makeover.<br /> ::As for the layout, It's incredibly good. It's superior to the rows layout in every way, and it's less work intensive than the 7X7 block layout while giving full visibility.<br /> ::Comparing all the layouts gave me an idea- We could group all the block layouts into a single block layout, seeing as they are all very similar and related. Different characters would denote different phases in the digging process. Then, we could introduce the block layout as modular, the diagonal layout as efficient and the hollow layout as thorough. I have half a mind to scrap the row layout altogether, seeing as it's pretty inferior.<br /> ::--[[User:AlienChickenPie|AlienChickenPie]] 14:33, 14 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::Actually, I was talking to Dorten - I fixed his formatting.<br /> :::Anyway, the row layout does have one advantage: It gets all tiles and can be designated relatively quickly. I would hate to designate the diagonal layout for a whole z-level.<br /> :::Additionally, row layouts are actually more efficient than block layouts, per tiles dug, although they might not catch a vein running in parallel to them. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:45, 14 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::Macros help there a lot. Have you seen MinePoint? It was pretty quick.[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 01:38, 18 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::No. What is it? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:35, 18 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Proposal: Real mining shafts ==<br /> <br /> &lt;div style=&quot;font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%&quot;&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt; <br /> ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒<br /> ▒X▒▒X▒▒X▒<br /> ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒<br /> ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒<br /> ▒X▒▒X▒▒X▒<br /> ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒<br /> &lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<br /> * Labor: 11.1% of the tiles are excavated.<br /> * Scarcity: Any scarcity. Clusters as small as a single tile are revealed.<br /> * Visibility: 100%.<br /> <br /> You'll have to have a floor above it with tunnels to the stairs to go down, but after that floor, this provides maximum possible efficiency. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:53, 14 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :This actually has an 11.1% Labor Efficiency. An added bonus is that it's easy to make into square rooms of various sizes, the stairways can be removed and used as doorways, or just carved out as part of the rooms. It really is similar to the rows method, except turned on end each mined tile exposes 8 tiles, instead of 2. Instead of scattered tiles I'd call it mine shafts, though. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 16:38, 20 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Erm. Oops. I'm usually better at math than that. *hurriedly fixes error* --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:54, 21 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : this pattern is a a lot of work to designate, so I created a ahk script to speed it up, hope no one minds the link.--[[User:Otherdwarf|Otherdwarf]] 17:04, 25 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I redid this script's functionality from scratch, and I decided that since the original did not function at all (under the current version of AHK), that replacing old one was justified.[[User:StrawberryBunny|StrawberryBunny]] 00:41, 6 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == query: similar minerals together==<br /> <br /> ive noticed whislt runnign explaratory mining in one of my forts that minerals often come in similar groups- for example i have one floor with 6 or seven garnerite viens and one with atleast 2 lignite veins. is this just coinicedence or a propper pattenr that should be noted on the page. i find i useful myself when looking for resuacres i have already had.<br /> {{unsigned|Gnomegnome}}<br /> <br /> :Rock layers (sedimentary, metamorphic, etc.) tend to change according to depth (Z-levels), so you'll find stuff in one rock layer that won't be present in a lower rock layer. That should be noted in the article, though other than that, I don't believe there's a pattern.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:42, 2 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :: i am aware of that it just i have seen a significant correalation to this effect in my current fortress, beyond what one might attribute to strata, it is a real one Z levels has the garnerite one Z level has the lingnite and one Z level has the hematite type distinciton, and was wondering if it was more that coincedence, also sorry about not signing my comment, i don't acutally know how :D<br /> <br /> == Separate section on effectively finding magma vents and underground rivers? ==<br /> <br /> As it stands, this focuses more on finding minerals and less on finding underground rivers/vents. Considering the unique challenges of the two (especially in regards to potential flooding/monsters), is there any advice specific to finding them quickly and safely? [[User:MagicJuggler|MagicJuggler]] 05:05, 3 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> : You could always try to search for cave spider silk web on the stock screen. Zoom to them and it will display where the chasm (and maybe other features, but that's how I found my chasm) is. For other feaure like cave river... perhaps searching for cave crocodile / slugman / other cave river critters corpses in the stocks screen ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 05:19, 3 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::This does not work as the animals will not show up until they are [DECEASED] and they are not zoomable.<br /> <br /> :Best solution is probably to use 15x15 blocks on every third level. You only need to do every third level because the damp/warm stone warning will tell you when you're near. Then go back a few squares and dig an up staircase. On this new z-level dig another tunnel to where you just found damp/warm stone. Rinse and repeat and eventually your miner will reach a z-level where he can dig all the way through without encountering damp/warm stone and thus he will reveal the feature.<br /> :The side profiles below illustrate how you will discover a river if you go every third z level<br /> <br /> Over the top Reveals Hits damp Hits damp Underneath <br /> <br /> _______o## ######## ######### ######### ######### # Unmined stone<br /> ### ##### ___o ## #### ### #### ### #### ### ~ Water<br /> ##&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;#~~#&lt;/font&gt;#### ###&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;#~~#&lt;/font&gt;# __o&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;#~~#&lt;/font&gt;## ###&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;#~~#&lt;/font&gt;## ###&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;#~~#&lt;/font&gt;## _ Tunnel<br /> ###&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;##&lt;/font&gt;##### ####&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;##&lt;/font&gt;## ####&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;##&lt;/font&gt;### ___o&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;##&lt;/font&gt;### ####&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;##&lt;/font&gt;### o Miner<br /> ########## ######## ######### ######### _______o#<br /> : --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 17:42, 8 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> [[Image:obsidian_cap.png|thumb|right|100px|An obsidian cap]]<br /> ::You don't actually need to do any digging at all to locate magma pipes or volcanoes. A volcano will be visible from surface z-level. Some magma pipes will also be visible from the surface z-level. Both of these types will be revealed all the way to the bottom. If it is not open, then it will have an obsidian cap. If you check the surface, you can find an obsidian cap over the top of the pipe, although it's tricky to see if you don't know to look for it.<br /> :: Underground rivers and magma pools are a different story, though. I've never used a magma pool before, how big are they? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:09, 8 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::I'm pretty sure that not &lt;u&gt;all&lt;/u&gt; pipes have obsidian caps, only ones that have reached the surface in cold climates. When I get home tonight I'll check my ocean side fortress, I'm pretty sure it didn't. Also, that image is pretty useless unless you already know what you are looking at. &lt;br&gt;Magma pools are about the same size as a pipe, but only 3 or 5 z-levels deep, iirc. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 21:30, 8 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::Yeah, I'm correct. It had 2 layers of soil above it, 3 if you count the level the magma surface is visible on. Edited the article to reflect this. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 01:50, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::: Well, that cap image is from the terrain I'm playing on now, which isn't in a freezing biome. So we should take out the &quot;freezing&quot; bit and just leave it as &quot;may extend to just below the surface.&quot; Oh, and sorry about the image. I guess that's a case where it is so obvious to me what it's of, that I couldn't imagine other perspectives. I'll do another screen shot and replace it at full size. The full size image is still very small. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 03:52, 9 November 2008 (EST)<br /> :::Personally, I have my init file changed so that I can see any magma pipes and pools on the regional map when settling a new fortress. From my experience I will say this: a) Not all magma pipes have obsidian caps. b) If the magma pipe is within 2 or 3 z-levels of surfacing, it WILL have a cap. c) Frozen biomes do not change this, though you might have a higher change of finding capped pipes instead of volcanoes due to the fact that water+magma=obsidian. However, the obsidian cap is usually very obvious compared to the fresh ice and snow. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 04:04, 9 November 2008 (EST)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Ambush&diff=36403 2008-11-05T21:16:11Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Elves leading Goblins? */</p> <hr /> <div>Yesterday, I had an ambush. My woodcutter was ambushed by a group of one goblin bowman and five swordsmen. They were invisible, until attacked him. I had never seen anything like this until 38a. Think, it's something new, should we add the article? What do you think?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:23, 6 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> : yes definitely. I have been ambushed 3 times already in one year. These attacks seem to coincide with trading caravans. --[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 23:28, 6 February 2008 (EST)<br /> ::Is this really new? I started with 38a, but from reading i never expected anything else than thieves and ambushes with every caravan.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:17, 29 February 2008 (EST)<br /> :::38a was the first time that caravans caused direct attacks. Previously the only worry was theives which could be easily defeated by recruits.--[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 14:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> ==Ambush messages==<br /> In my experience with last version (38a) it showed 'Ambush, curse them' on kobold thieves, and 'Ambush!' on beforementioned goblins. This surely needs verification--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 01:10, 7 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :I have:&lt;br&gt;<br /> :38a&lt;br&gt;<br /> :Kobold thieves (2): An ambush! curse them!<br /> :Goblins: An ambush! curse them!<br /> <br /> :38c <br /> :Kobold thieves (2): Thief! protect the hoard from skulking filth! (the different message may be caused by increased wealth)<br /> <br /> :Goblins: An ambush! curse them!<br /> <br /> :You can read back the whole announcements log (page up key) if you have the patience ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:17, 29 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> Toady stated that the &quot;Ambush!&quot; message appearing for kobold thieves was a bug, and it has now been fixed. [[User:Furiousfish|Furiousfish]] 21:26, 6 March 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> In a recent game (40d) I received &quot;A dwarf has sprung from ambush!&quot; when a dwarf-led squad of goblins ambushed one of my fisherdwarves. [[User:dwarfsgalore|dwarfsgalore]] 12:12, 24 October 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Enemy squad supposedly fleeing after the commander's death ==<br /> <br /> Well, in my case he got caged, does that count? The squad of the 5 remaining goblin bowmen, however did not retreat, and continued to advance until torn apart by dogs. Only 1, last(after the other 4 died) goblin started retreating. That was 38a. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 05:07, 1 March 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :I just had my marksdwarves pump a goblin leader full of timber, and his squadmates just charged. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 08:15, 1 March 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::Alright I'm killing that part then. It's obviously wrong now. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 09:44, 1 March 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::yep, just had an ambush too: leader dead, 1 unconscious, rest dead, and the last bowman was still charging.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 11:49, 1 March 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::::In my experience, the rest of the squad will flee but only if they have not sighted a target first. Once the goblin (or whatever) chooses someone to attack it will no longer flee but if the leader is killed (by a trap for example) before any squad members have sighted your dwarves, then they will flee.--[[User:dwarfsgalore|dwarfsgalore]] 5:35 11 October 2008 (PST)<br /> <br /> == weapon trap did not cause warning ==<br /> <br /> So i thought i had a squad of only 3 goblins, but it turned out a weapon trap had already finished of 2, but without giving the ambush-message. My cagetraps always gave the warning when they caught a goblin. Is this a known fact? how about other trap types? I think stone fall traps also triggered the warning before, but im not so sure anymore. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:16, 11 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Suppositions on ambush spawning/spotting ==<br /> So, it seems like the game generates (invisible) goblins to ambush you that actually move about the map, and are only revealed when spotted or when they attack. They still interact normally with map features and objects that don't require awareness.<br /> <br /> There are times when you'll spot them from a different z-level. However, my supposition is that ambushers only ever spawn on a z-level from which they can access an open level of your fortress, even if there exist z-levels from which they could rain ranged death down upon your dwarves the game won't spawn them there if that level has no (path traceable) access to your fortress. Can anyone confirm? (Note that forbidden doors block path tracing, and if the only access to a given z-level is through a forbidden door...) <br /> <br /> My anecdotal evidence: Given traps on 2 z-levels, one of which I had locked (forbade) all doors access to, and to which i often had LoS by dwarves walking about on raised walkways, I only ever had goblin 'ambushers' walk into traps on the level that actually had an open entrance to the base. (I was no longer actually being ambushed at that point, i just kept seeing corpses appear).<br /> <br /> Similarly, I think siege forces only spawn on levels where they can path into your base, but i won't swear to that.<br /> <br /> Possibly replace all instances of 'into your base' with 'to a dwarf'. I am unable to differentiate these with the games i've played.<br /> <br /> Unrelatedly, I've also had a wild elephant spot a goblin thief for me before - can wild animals spot ambushers?<br /> <br /> --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:50, 18 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I can verify the part about &quot;to a dwarf&quot; as I've played several isolationist games where migrants are just left outside beyond a channel-trench or what not to fend for themselves, and often get ambushers and/or siegers that slaughter them and then have nothing else to do (until sappers are created by Toady anyways;) ) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:10, 18 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Ambushes do NOT have to be an enemy force; it's anybody using the ambusher skill. After abandoning a propserous fortress and reclaiming it, I had several dwarves still there. Periodically I'd get the ambush message; it was almost always a hunter stalking game. --[[User:Propatriamori|Propatriamori]] 00:23, 22 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I can say that wild animals do spot ambushers. I have had it happen twice to me on df_28_181_39f. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 09:01, 13 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Updated &quot;Tips&quot; ==<br /> I tried to update the &quot;tips&quot; portion to be more relevant to actual ambushes, rather than to sieges. Hopefully I didn't do too bad a job, but I'm sure it still needs plenty of work. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 16:25, 9 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Some of the tips are useful, but I have a couple of complaints. Firstly, War Dogs are not useless. You can chain them to important locations, and discover ambushes a lot sooner then normal. Secondly, moats do not work. If you have a moat, and there is no bridge, the invader AI will completely break, and they will just stand still for eternity. A one way entrance to your fortress filled with traps might be better, but I'm not sure if that's possible. Can anyone confirm if one way corridors are any way feasable? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:25, 10 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::This is the sort of thing I meant by &quot;still needs plenty of work&quot;...namely clarifications in this case.<br /> ::With War Dogs, I didn't mean that they were useless per se, and I actually do mention using them to detect ambushes earlier than normal. However, in order to ''fight'', they have to get to the fight in the first place. But if you're trying to cover something over a large area (such as a road you're building or a caravan route that goes to the far end of the map), you start to need a LOT of packs of dogs in various places to make sure that one is close enough. So while you can use them just fine for spotting and for their usual base-defense duties, you need an insane number of dogs to include them in your anti-ambush reaction plans as ''combatants''.<br /> ::As for moats, yes, cutting off an area entirely will break the pathfinding AI, but that goes for ''any'' situation a moat is used. What I meant by cutting off an area with moats is to use moats to cut off all access routes ''except the ones that go through your fortress''. There's still a path to the area, but the only path involves going through your Main Entrance, and thus your Main Entrance's defenses. In turn, the enemy can't use the access route as a &quot;back door&quot; because the moat is in the way. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 21:34, 10 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::Oh right, I guess that would work fairly well. A tip for noobs; If a goblin raid appears, draft the whole population into the military and station them in the deepest part of your fortress. This work's pretty well as an alternative to watching all of your peasants die. By the way, is there a way of stopping all my fortress guards from running straight into the battlefield and getting their butts kicked? Or should I just not appoint a Sheriff at all. Does it matter? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 03:43, 11 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::It may be a coincidence, but keeping the &quot;inhabited&quot; area - and thus any guards - as far away from your main defenses as possible seems to be doing a good job of keeping my Fortress Guards away from the fray. My living quarters, kitchens, workshops, etc. are seperated from my ''last'' line of defense by a fairly long corridor, and that is seperated from the very first line of defense by a LOT of trap-filled space to travel through. So by the time the Guards would even notice that there's invaders to charge, the attackers have already spent five minutes being torn apart by Weapon Traps and Ballistae. As for drafting everybody, that works as a last resort, but it would be best to try to design the fortress to keep that from becoming necessary in the first place (which, admittedly, is easier said than done). --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 19:17, 11 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::One-Way corridors would solve this problem, because the invader AI would remain unbroken. The trouble is trying to keep your people from foolishly running into the fray. The only thing I can think of is this kind of setup;<br /> <br /> &gt;[]**************....<br /> <br /> Where the stars represent a retractable bridge, the box represents a pressure plate, and the arrow means the stairway out of the pit below. Perhaps that could work? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:19, 12 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::If you could manage a one-way corridor, sure, it would keep your people from running into the fray. It'd have to be a series of bridges/pressure plates/whatever though to try to make it work as one. The way I've managed to keep my citizens out of the fray is when an enemy is detected, I use the &quot;cancel everything outside and set &quot;dwarves stay indoors&quot;&quot; method of keeping everybody inside, but I have a skylight a ways behind my defenses. So they still go running to pick up the stuff and don't stop until they hit sunlight, but the skylight means that they hit sunlight and turn around before they get to the battlefield. It's something like this:<br /> ::::::(Fortress) - (Skylight) - (Corridor Of Doom) - (Outside) --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 16:54, 12 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Kobold Ambush and Traps ==<br /> <br /> I have witnessed Kobold ambushers (4 swordsman and 1 spearmen) walk straight over weapon traps and stone-fall traps. I have also witnessed the ambushers *note, not the theives I watched it as it happened* picklock one of my locked doors to gain access into my fortress. I do not know if this applies to cage traps yet. Once this is confirmed by someone else it should be added to the page. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 09:21, 11 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Elves leading Goblins? ==<br /> <br /> In the past few days (playing .40d), every Goblin ambush has included one Elf (presumably the leader). Is this a bug, or some freaky event caused by something within my game? --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 06:32, 13 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> :Goblin pedos kidnap kids and they become part of goblin society. Maybe they harass elven and human kids too? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 11:10, 13 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::I have seen both humans and dwarves (!) leading squads of goblins. With the dwarf-led squad I received a message &quot;A Dwarf springs/has sprung from ambush!&quot;--[[User:dwarfsgalore|dwarfsgalore]] 5:31, 10 October 2008 (PST)<br /> :::I can verify this, I have three visible ambush parties on my map, 2 are lead by dwarves (1 hammerer, one spear-dwarf) and the other one is lead by a Human Lasher.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 16:16, 5 November 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Elves ambushing me ==<br /> <br /> I started a new fortress and after about a year i was actually ambushed by elves! I noticed that the wiki says that they dont ambush so i changed that. I was very surprised when it happened, and im not sure i could ahve fought them back if it wasnt for the fact that i had just reclaimed the fortress because of a fire imp accident --[[User:rock n rat|rock n rat]] 00:35, 19 September 2008 (EDT)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Screw_pump&diff=43109 2008-10-29T06:29:28Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Pumping Magma? */</p> <hr /> <div>{{archive|<br /> #[[Talk:Screw pump|Current discussion]]<br /> #[[Talk:Screw pump/archive1|Archive1]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Archiving ==<br /> <br /> See [[/archive1]] for discussions before July '08.<br /> Most discussion was regarding page development which has been implemented. There are a few comments which might help people trying to work things out but most of it is in the article.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:56, 5 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> ==Two versions of the L-shaped tunnels design==<br /> As I said when I removed it, there is no point having two. Do not add mine back in again. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 21:57, 25 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> You'd also cut how to set up water wheels &amp; connect them to the pump tower. I wasn't 100% certain how to diagram connecting the wheels to the smaller tower design so I thought it best to restore the whole section until someone added that into the L-shape design. [[User:Calenth|Calenth]]<br /> <br /> == Pumping Magma? ==<br /> <br /> Would this work if the pump was made of magma-safe materials? --[[User:Mizzy|Mizzy]] 21:10, 27 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Please check a talk page's [[Talk:Screw_pump/archive1#Materials_for_magma_pumps|archives]] before asking a question. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 02:46, 28 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :An edit to the [[Stupid dwarf trick]] page implied that only the blocks need be made of magma-safe materials. This needs to be studied further. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 17:28, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::I have been building magma pumps out of wood (pipe/screw) and stone blocks for ages now; there are no detrimental effects. Since non-bauxite/non-raw adamantine stones are not magma safe, presumably a wooden block will work as well (a waste of logs if you have stone, though). It is only an issue if any part of the pump (namely, the walkable end) is going to be submerged in magma. You're probably working with a poor design if your pumps are submerged in what they're pumping, but whatever. In that case your best bet is to use green glass tubes/screws/blocks, if you have sand. Metal is a last resort. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 20:59, 27 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::Wait - glass is magma-safe? what's its melting point? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 23:29, 27 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::Glass itself appears to be hardcoded and from what I can tell does not have a melting point. Pretty sure glass is magma safe. I have never had problems with it. It's a nice way to get infinite tubes and corkscrews. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 23:27, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::Just tried to build a pump using a nickel block with a wooden screw and a wooden tube. All it created was a huge mess and a bit of smoke and fire. Luckily, the pump is separated enough from my fort that I can just let the magma cool before moving back in.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 00:57, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :Did you make sure the magma coming out of the pump (on the same z-level of the pump) couldn't go back around and over the back of the pump? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:56, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Hmm...actually, I had to cut a whole because the dwarf who constructed it had the bright idea to get himself stuck by standing on the walkable tile. I guess maybe I should put a door there to allow access while blocking the magma next time to make sure it work.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 12:59, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Tested this again. There is no problem using a wooden Archimedes screw (giant wood screw+giant pipe) to pump magma as long as the block used is magma proof and magma does not leak around to the passable tile. The second that happens, though, the pump bursts into flame.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 02:29, 29 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Self powered pumps ==<br /> <br /> So I'm just starting a new fortress, its got everything but an easy to make moat, but there is a river start to the east a little and two or three levels lower than my entrance. So, what I'm wondering is, is there some easy way to get a hydraulic powered pump going off of the power of the water being pumped (after the dwarves do the initial pumping). Also if anyone has diagrams or something of how to easily bring water up two or three levels (or possibly higher if theres some advantage to having water fall from a height). Sorry if this is kind of stupid or answered or anything, last time I played the game it had 1 level and I never got too much into mechanics farther than floodgates (lots of complicated and redundant floodgates as I recall) so I've never tried a pump or waterwheel. I'd rather not screw up this map (its just short of perfect, major magnemite deposits with limestone being the main component to the mountain overall, access to every civ, its Cold [I'm from Canada so I like the cold], has good hunting and a major river start). Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 15:43, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Place a waterwheel in the original river to supply power. You can raise water multiple levels by the methods described [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|here]]. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:01, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:57, 1 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Note that if you bring the water up higher than the moat, it '''will''' (not might. will.) overtop your moat. That's a good way to flood your fortress. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:07, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> An example of the [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|multi-level pump]] including power source, gear assemblies and axles would pretty much make my entire month. Anyone up to the challenge? Pretty please? [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 22:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Front vs rear ==<br /> <br /> Do I understand correctly that the 'front' tile (i.e. blocks water flow) is the one where the water comes out of?<br /> <br /> Sort of - it actually just 'spawns' water in the tile on the opposite side of that tile from the rear walkable tile, an amount equal to that which is removed a z-level down. --[[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]] 16:19, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> But either way, the output side blocks flow (so if in a narrow channel water cannot backflow through the pump if it is turned off), right? I need to know this for a design. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:31, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : Yes, you are correct. I too was confused by the use of the word &quot;front&quot;, as my perception is that the &quot;front&quot; of a pump would be where the water goes in, not out. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 04:14, 18 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Alternate vs. other ==<br /> <br /> Alternate generally means &quot;in turn&quot; or &quot;in place of&quot; -- not &quot;as an alternative&quot;.[http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000296.htm][http://cjrarchives.org/tools/lc/alt.asp] But &quot;alternative&quot; can have its own problems,[http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/alternate.html] which is why I would recommend &quot;other uses&quot; here.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 22 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :While I appreciate the need for clarity, I don't think either word particularly changes the scope, knowledge, breadth or content of the page. I suggest that both words work equally well. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:31, 22 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::May I ask for people's permission, then, to change it to 'other'? The function of the page may not be substantially affected by it, but I hate to be unable to correct what I understand to be an error. 'Course, if no one agrees, I'll let it drop.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 11:28, 23 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Pump + Stairs = Win? ==<br /> <br /> Is there any reason why I can't use the stairs as the open space that I'm pumping water from?<br /> <br /> Side View Top Views Key<br /> ###### ###### <br /> #v-&gt;__ #v-&gt;^# -&gt; or &lt;- : Direction of pump<br /> #^&lt;-v# ###### v : down stairs<br /> #v-&gt;^# #^&lt;-v# ^ : up stairs<br /> #^&lt;-v# ###### # : Wall<br /> ____^# _ : space<br /> <br /> I came up with this right after exiting the game. I'll try it out soon. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:02, 23 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :No reason you couldn't, but it'd be rather silly as your dwarves can't walk through the pump. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:58, 28 October 2008 (EDT)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Screw_pump&diff=43108 2008-10-29T06:29:09Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Pumping Magma? */</p> <hr /> <div>{{archive|<br /> #[[Talk:Screw pump|Current discussion]]<br /> #[[Talk:Screw pump/archive1|Archive1]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Archiving ==<br /> <br /> See [[/archive1]] for discussions before July '08.<br /> Most discussion was regarding page development which has been implemented. There are a few comments which might help people trying to work things out but most of it is in the article.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:56, 5 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> ==Two versions of the L-shaped tunnels design==<br /> As I said when I removed it, there is no point having two. Do not add mine back in again. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 21:57, 25 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> You'd also cut how to set up water wheels &amp; connect them to the pump tower. I wasn't 100% certain how to diagram connecting the wheels to the smaller tower design so I thought it best to restore the whole section until someone added that into the L-shape design. [[User:Calenth|Calenth]]<br /> <br /> == Pumping Magma? ==<br /> <br /> Would this work if the pump was made of magma-safe materials? --[[User:Mizzy|Mizzy]] 21:10, 27 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Please check a talk page's [[Talk:Screw_pump/archive1#Materials_for_magma_pumps|archives]] before asking a question. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 02:46, 28 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :An edit to the [[Stupid dwarf trick]] page implied that only the blocks need be made of magma-safe materials. This needs to be studied further. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 17:28, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::I have been building magma pumps out of wood (pipe/screw) and stone blocks for ages now; there are no detrimental effects. Since non-bauxite/non-raw adamantine stones are not magma safe, presumably a wooden block will work as well (a waste of logs if you have stone, though). It is only an issue if any part of the pump (namely, the walkable end) is going to be submerged in magma. You're probably working with a poor design if your pumps are submerged in what they're pumping, but whatever. In that case your best bet is to use green glass tubes/screws/blocks, if you have sand. Metal is a last resort. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 20:59, 27 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::Wait - glass is magma-safe? what's its melting point? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 23:29, 27 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::Glass itself appears to be hardcoded and from what I can tell does not have a melting point. Pretty sure glass is magma safe. I have never had problems with it. It's a nice way to get infinite tubes and corkscrews. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 23:27, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::Just tried to build a pump using a nickel block with a wooden screw and a wooden tube. All it created was a huge mess and a bit of smoke and fire. Luckily, the pump is separated enough from my fort that I can just let the magma cool before moving back in.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 00:57, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :Did you make sure the magma coming out of the pump (on the same z-level of the pump) couldn't go back around and over the back of the pump? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:56, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Hmm...actually, I had to cut a whole because the dwarf who constructed it had the bright idea to get himself stuck by standing on the walkable tile. I guess maybe I should put a door there to allow access while blocking the magma next time to make sure it work.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 12:59, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Tested this again. There is no problem using a wooden Archimedes screw (giant wood screw+giant pipe) to pump magma as long as the block used is magma proof and magma does not leak around to the passable tile. The second that happens, though, the pump bursts into flame.<br /> <br /> == Self powered pumps ==<br /> <br /> So I'm just starting a new fortress, its got everything but an easy to make moat, but there is a river start to the east a little and two or three levels lower than my entrance. So, what I'm wondering is, is there some easy way to get a hydraulic powered pump going off of the power of the water being pumped (after the dwarves do the initial pumping). Also if anyone has diagrams or something of how to easily bring water up two or three levels (or possibly higher if theres some advantage to having water fall from a height). Sorry if this is kind of stupid or answered or anything, last time I played the game it had 1 level and I never got too much into mechanics farther than floodgates (lots of complicated and redundant floodgates as I recall) so I've never tried a pump or waterwheel. I'd rather not screw up this map (its just short of perfect, major magnemite deposits with limestone being the main component to the mountain overall, access to every civ, its Cold [I'm from Canada so I like the cold], has good hunting and a major river start). Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 15:43, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Place a waterwheel in the original river to supply power. You can raise water multiple levels by the methods described [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|here]]. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:01, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:57, 1 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Note that if you bring the water up higher than the moat, it '''will''' (not might. will.) overtop your moat. That's a good way to flood your fortress. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:07, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> An example of the [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|multi-level pump]] including power source, gear assemblies and axles would pretty much make my entire month. Anyone up to the challenge? Pretty please? [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 22:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Front vs rear ==<br /> <br /> Do I understand correctly that the 'front' tile (i.e. blocks water flow) is the one where the water comes out of?<br /> <br /> Sort of - it actually just 'spawns' water in the tile on the opposite side of that tile from the rear walkable tile, an amount equal to that which is removed a z-level down. --[[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]] 16:19, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> But either way, the output side blocks flow (so if in a narrow channel water cannot backflow through the pump if it is turned off), right? I need to know this for a design. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:31, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : Yes, you are correct. I too was confused by the use of the word &quot;front&quot;, as my perception is that the &quot;front&quot; of a pump would be where the water goes in, not out. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 04:14, 18 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Alternate vs. other ==<br /> <br /> Alternate generally means &quot;in turn&quot; or &quot;in place of&quot; -- not &quot;as an alternative&quot;.[http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000296.htm][http://cjrarchives.org/tools/lc/alt.asp] But &quot;alternative&quot; can have its own problems,[http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/alternate.html] which is why I would recommend &quot;other uses&quot; here.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 22 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :While I appreciate the need for clarity, I don't think either word particularly changes the scope, knowledge, breadth or content of the page. I suggest that both words work equally well. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:31, 22 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::May I ask for people's permission, then, to change it to 'other'? The function of the page may not be substantially affected by it, but I hate to be unable to correct what I understand to be an error. 'Course, if no one agrees, I'll let it drop.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 11:28, 23 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Pump + Stairs = Win? ==<br /> <br /> Is there any reason why I can't use the stairs as the open space that I'm pumping water from?<br /> <br /> Side View Top Views Key<br /> ###### ###### <br /> #v-&gt;__ #v-&gt;^# -&gt; or &lt;- : Direction of pump<br /> #^&lt;-v# ###### v : down stairs<br /> #v-&gt;^# #^&lt;-v# ^ : up stairs<br /> #^&lt;-v# ###### # : Wall<br /> ____^# _ : space<br /> <br /> I came up with this right after exiting the game. I'll try it out soon. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:02, 23 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :No reason you couldn't, but it'd be rather silly as your dwarves can't walk through the pump. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:58, 28 October 2008 (EDT)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Screw_pump&diff=43106 2008-10-28T16:59:23Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Pumping Magma? */</p> <hr /> <div>{{archive|<br /> #[[Talk:Screw pump|Current discussion]]<br /> #[[Talk:Screw pump/archive1|Archive1]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Archiving ==<br /> <br /> See [[/archive1]] for discussions before July '08.<br /> Most discussion was regarding page development which has been implemented. There are a few comments which might help people trying to work things out but most of it is in the article.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:56, 5 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> ==Two versions of the L-shaped tunnels design==<br /> As I said when I removed it, there is no point having two. Do not add mine back in again. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 21:57, 25 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> You'd also cut how to set up water wheels &amp; connect them to the pump tower. I wasn't 100% certain how to diagram connecting the wheels to the smaller tower design so I thought it best to restore the whole section until someone added that into the L-shape design. [[User:Calenth|Calenth]]<br /> <br /> == Pumping Magma? ==<br /> <br /> Would this work if the pump was made of magma-safe materials? --[[User:Mizzy|Mizzy]] 21:10, 27 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Please check a talk page's [[Talk:Screw_pump/archive1#Materials_for_magma_pumps|archives]] before asking a question. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 02:46, 28 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :An edit to the [[Stupid dwarf trick]] page implied that only the blocks need be made of magma-safe materials. This needs to be studied further. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 17:28, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::I have been building magma pumps out of wood (pipe/screw) and stone blocks for ages now; there are no detrimental effects. Since non-bauxite/non-raw adamantine stones are not magma safe, presumably a wooden block will work as well (a waste of logs if you have stone, though). It is only an issue if any part of the pump (namely, the walkable end) is going to be submerged in magma. You're probably working with a poor design if your pumps are submerged in what they're pumping, but whatever. In that case your best bet is to use green glass tubes/screws/blocks, if you have sand. Metal is a last resort. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 20:59, 27 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::Wait - glass is magma-safe? what's its melting point? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 23:29, 27 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::Just tried to build a pump using a nickel block with a wooden screw and a wooden tube. All it created was a huge mess and a bit of smoke and fire. Luckily, the pump is separated enough from my fort that I can just let the magma cool before moving back in.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 00:57, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :Did you make sure the magma coming out of the pump (on the same z-level of the pump) couldn't go back around and over the back of the pump? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:56, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Hmm...actually, I had to cut a whole because the dwarf who constructed it had the bright idea to get himself stuck by standing on the walkable tile. I guess maybe I should put a door there to allow access while blocking the magma next time to make sure it work.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 12:59, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Self powered pumps ==<br /> <br /> So I'm just starting a new fortress, its got everything but an easy to make moat, but there is a river start to the east a little and two or three levels lower than my entrance. So, what I'm wondering is, is there some easy way to get a hydraulic powered pump going off of the power of the water being pumped (after the dwarves do the initial pumping). Also if anyone has diagrams or something of how to easily bring water up two or three levels (or possibly higher if theres some advantage to having water fall from a height). Sorry if this is kind of stupid or answered or anything, last time I played the game it had 1 level and I never got too much into mechanics farther than floodgates (lots of complicated and redundant floodgates as I recall) so I've never tried a pump or waterwheel. I'd rather not screw up this map (its just short of perfect, major magnemite deposits with limestone being the main component to the mountain overall, access to every civ, its Cold [I'm from Canada so I like the cold], has good hunting and a major river start). Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 15:43, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Place a waterwheel in the original river to supply power. You can raise water multiple levels by the methods described [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|here]]. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:01, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:57, 1 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Note that if you bring the water up higher than the moat, it '''will''' (not might. will.) overtop your moat. That's a good way to flood your fortress. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:07, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> An example of the [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|multi-level pump]] including power source, gear assemblies and axles would pretty much make my entire month. Anyone up to the challenge? Pretty please? [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 22:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Front vs rear ==<br /> <br /> Do I understand correctly that the 'front' tile (i.e. blocks water flow) is the one where the water comes out of?<br /> <br /> Sort of - it actually just 'spawns' water in the tile on the opposite side of that tile from the rear walkable tile, an amount equal to that which is removed a z-level down. --[[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]] 16:19, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> But either way, the output side blocks flow (so if in a narrow channel water cannot backflow through the pump if it is turned off), right? I need to know this for a design. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:31, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : Yes, you are correct. I too was confused by the use of the word &quot;front&quot;, as my perception is that the &quot;front&quot; of a pump would be where the water goes in, not out. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 04:14, 18 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Alternate vs. other ==<br /> <br /> Alternate generally means &quot;in turn&quot; or &quot;in place of&quot; -- not &quot;as an alternative&quot;.[http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000296.htm][http://cjrarchives.org/tools/lc/alt.asp] But &quot;alternative&quot; can have its own problems,[http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/alternate.html] which is why I would recommend &quot;other uses&quot; here.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 22 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :While I appreciate the need for clarity, I don't think either word particularly changes the scope, knowledge, breadth or content of the page. I suggest that both words work equally well. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:31, 22 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::May I ask for people's permission, then, to change it to 'other'? The function of the page may not be substantially affected by it, but I hate to be unable to correct what I understand to be an error. 'Course, if no one agrees, I'll let it drop.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 11:28, 23 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Pump + Stairs = Win? ==<br /> <br /> Is there any reason why I can't use the stairs as the open space that I'm pumping water from?<br /> <br /> Side View Top Views Key<br /> ###### ###### <br /> #v-&gt;__ #v-&gt;^# -&gt; or &lt;- : Direction of pump<br /> #^&lt;-v# ###### v : down stairs<br /> #v-&gt;^# #^&lt;-v# ^ : up stairs<br /> #^&lt;-v# ###### # : Wall<br /> ____^# _ : space<br /> <br /> I came up with this right after exiting the game. I'll try it out soon. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:02, 23 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :No reason you couldn't, but it'd be rather silly as your dwarves can't walk through the pump. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:58, 28 October 2008 (EDT)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Screw_pump&diff=43103 2008-10-28T04:57:16Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Pumping Magma? */</p> <hr /> <div>{{archive|<br /> #[[Talk:Screw pump|Current discussion]]<br /> #[[Talk:Screw pump/archive1|Archive1]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Archiving ==<br /> <br /> See [[/archive1]] for discussions before July '08.<br /> Most discussion was regarding page development which has been implemented. There are a few comments which might help people trying to work things out but most of it is in the article.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:56, 5 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> ==Two versions of the L-shaped tunnels design==<br /> As I said when I removed it, there is no point having two. Do not add mine back in again. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 21:57, 25 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> You'd also cut how to set up water wheels &amp; connect them to the pump tower. I wasn't 100% certain how to diagram connecting the wheels to the smaller tower design so I thought it best to restore the whole section until someone added that into the L-shape design. [[User:Calenth|Calenth]]<br /> <br /> == Pumping Magma? ==<br /> <br /> Would this work if the pump was made of magma-safe materials? --[[User:Mizzy|Mizzy]] 21:10, 27 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Please check a talk page's [[Talk:Screw_pump/archive1#Materials_for_magma_pumps|archives]] before asking a question. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 02:46, 28 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :An edit to the [[Stupid dwarf trick]] page implied that only the blocks need be made of magma-safe materials. This needs to be studied further. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 17:28, 2 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::I have been building magma pumps out of wood (pipe/screw) and stone blocks for ages now; there are no detrimental effects. Since non-bauxite/non-raw adamantine stones are not magma safe, presumably a wooden block will work as well (a waste of logs if you have stone, though). It is only an issue if any part of the pump (namely, the walkable end) is going to be submerged in magma. You're probably working with a poor design if your pumps are submerged in what they're pumping, but whatever. In that case your best bet is to use green glass tubes/screws/blocks, if you have sand. Metal is a last resort. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 20:59, 27 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> :::Wait - glass is magma-safe? what's its melting point? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 23:29, 27 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::Just tried to build a pump using a nickel block with a wooden screw and a wooden tube. All it created was a huge mess and a bit of smoke and fire. Luckily, the pump is separated enough from my fort that I can just let the magma cool before moving back in.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 00:57, 28 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Self powered pumps ==<br /> <br /> So I'm just starting a new fortress, its got everything but an easy to make moat, but there is a river start to the east a little and two or three levels lower than my entrance. So, what I'm wondering is, is there some easy way to get a hydraulic powered pump going off of the power of the water being pumped (after the dwarves do the initial pumping). Also if anyone has diagrams or something of how to easily bring water up two or three levels (or possibly higher if theres some advantage to having water fall from a height). Sorry if this is kind of stupid or answered or anything, last time I played the game it had 1 level and I never got too much into mechanics farther than floodgates (lots of complicated and redundant floodgates as I recall) so I've never tried a pump or waterwheel. I'd rather not screw up this map (its just short of perfect, major magnemite deposits with limestone being the main component to the mountain overall, access to every civ, its Cold [I'm from Canada so I like the cold], has good hunting and a major river start). Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 15:43, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Place a waterwheel in the original river to supply power. You can raise water multiple levels by the methods described [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|here]]. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:01, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:57, 1 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Note that if you bring the water up higher than the moat, it '''will''' (not might. will.) overtop your moat. That's a good way to flood your fortress. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:07, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> An example of the [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|multi-level pump]] including power source, gear assemblies and axles would pretty much make my entire month. Anyone up to the challenge? Pretty please? [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 22:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Front vs rear ==<br /> <br /> Do I understand correctly that the 'front' tile (i.e. blocks water flow) is the one where the water comes out of?<br /> <br /> Sort of - it actually just 'spawns' water in the tile on the opposite side of that tile from the rear walkable tile, an amount equal to that which is removed a z-level down. --[[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]] 16:19, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> But either way, the output side blocks flow (so if in a narrow channel water cannot backflow through the pump if it is turned off), right? I need to know this for a design. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:31, 14 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : Yes, you are correct. I too was confused by the use of the word &quot;front&quot;, as my perception is that the &quot;front&quot; of a pump would be where the water goes in, not out. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 04:14, 18 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Alternate vs. other ==<br /> <br /> Alternate generally means &quot;in turn&quot; or &quot;in place of&quot; -- not &quot;as an alternative&quot;.[http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000296.htm][http://cjrarchives.org/tools/lc/alt.asp] But &quot;alternative&quot; can have its own problems,[http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/alternate.html] which is why I would recommend &quot;other uses&quot; here.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 22 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :While I appreciate the need for clarity, I don't think either word particularly changes the scope, knowledge, breadth or content of the page. I suggest that both words work equally well. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:31, 22 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::May I ask for people's permission, then, to change it to 'other'? The function of the page may not be substantially affected by it, but I hate to be unable to correct what I understand to be an error. 'Course, if no one agrees, I'll let it drop.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 11:28, 23 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Pump + Stairs = Win? ==<br /> <br /> Is there any reason why I can't use the stairs as the open space that I'm pumping water from?<br /> <br /> Side View Top Views Key<br /> ###### ###### <br /> #v-&gt;__ #v-&gt;^# -&gt; or &lt;- : Direction of pump<br /> #^&lt;-v# ###### v : down stairs<br /> #v-&gt;^# #^&lt;-v# ^ : up stairs<br /> #^&lt;-v# ###### # : Wall<br /> ____^# _ : space<br /> <br /> I came up with this right after exiting the game. I'll try it out soon. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:02, 23 October 2008 (EDT)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Fire_imp&diff=38213 2008-10-24T03:02:01Z

<p>Alkyon: /* A vast understatement! */</p> <hr /> <div>== Wrestling? ==<br /> <br /> I just had a mechanic get attacked by one. He moved into its tile (I assume to wrestle) and instantly died of heat. Should this be noted?--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 19:59, 28 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :That is the imp using his fireball attack on a stupid dwarf, so I guess it's already in the article --[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 20:27, 3 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Just to verify, its very possible to wrestle imps and magmamen to death. I had to do this after embarking, I didn't realize the lava tube would be right next to my wagon and immediately fire imps attacked. I drafted all of my dwarves and wrestled all 3 of them to death, as well as the magma man who came out later. The only dwarf I lost (my woodcutter) was due to a stray fireball. [[User:Forsaken1111|Forsaken1111]] 22:43, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Defensive Uses ==<br /> <br /> I'm currently exploring the defensive uses of fire imps after bagging a few in cage traps. They don't seem too keen on fireballing goblin attackers, which was my original plan (had them confined behind some fortifications, but they wouldn't fire on the goblins). Further experiments required, or can someone confirm that they won't attack anyone but my dwarves? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 16:35, 31 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::is it possible to tame fire imps with the dungeon master? [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 14:12, 12 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::There is no PET_EXOTIC tag, so no.[[User:StrawberryBunny|StrawberryBunny]] 09:35, 8 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::Is there a safe way to move fire imp fat? If so, you could put it above your fortress entrance and drop it on invaders since it always burns. I really wish armor made from fire imp hide would protect from burning. [[User:Forsaken1111|Forsaken1111]] 22:45, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == A vast understatement! ==<br /> <br /> &quot;Fire imps are nasty little creatures that live in magma vents.&quot;<br /> <br /> Nasty little creatures doesn't cut it. Every time I settle on top of a volcano, an imp will surface, get pissed at anything, be it an immigrating dwarf or a muskox, and cause a wildfire! The worst part is that there is no message for &quot;The world is burning!&quot; so I end up losing a dwarf or two before I notice it!<br /> <br /> I think the worst was I lost both of my initial miners because they decided to take a break in the path of the fire. They got the hint when I gave the order &quot;everyone inside&quot; but it was too late, they burned up before they could make it back inside.<br /> <br /> That being said, I find some vertical nickel bars do wonders in securing my magma forges from imp tampering. They're a definite &quot;must bring&quot; on any volcanic expedition.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 23:02, 23 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> (I didn't know to sign my posts when I wrote this, sorry.)<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> :Actually I thought that the world burning problem (glitch?) is pretty awesome, except when it burns up your entire booze stock in one go--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 22:21, 23 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::I do think the forest fires are cool too, but it would be nice if it had a warning, perhaps triggered by maybe an external growing past a certain size. It's just the imps cause them every time I've turned my back on them. Also, hunters and imps don't mix.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 23:02, 23 October 2008 (EDT)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Challenges&diff=22523 2008-10-17T09:58:23Z

<p>Alkyon: &lt;insert material&gt; Fort....wait, what?</p> <hr /> <div>==Colorful==<br /> This is an idea I got by reading trough all the challenges, what if you make it a goal to have the fortress in the colour of the rainbow. (Example, 80x80 tile fortress, first 10 tiles are red, second 10 tiles are brown-orange, the third 10 are yellow and go on) --[[User:G1real|G1real]] 08:43, 27 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Sparta==<br /> &quot;You shouldn't create chainmail or plate armour.&quot;<br /> &lt;br&gt;why? --Savok <br /> :because spartans don't wear chest armor. you should definately watch 300, it's like Dwarf Fortress on crack! --AlexFili <br /> ::from what I've read, 300 isn't an accurate depiction of Spartan life. However, this challenge build is based on 300 --Savok<br /> :::Alright, fair point, 300 was based from a graphic novel, but many similarities between Spartans in 300 and in real history are present. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 10:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT) <br /> ::::&quot;However, this challenge build is based on 300&quot; No it isn't. At least, it wasn't intended to be. I guess I shouldn't have referred to pop culture when I added it. --juckto<br /> :::::The hell with it. Split off spartans from 300. [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 16:55, 14 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Not only did Spartans use chest armour (although in the form of bronze muscel cuirasses), but it was illegal and finable to fight without your armour. Theres one story of a Prince praying in Temple when some enemies attacked, he ran out naked and killed them, the Oligarchs awarded and praised him with one hand and then fined him with the other. Further specific Spartan attributes, the largely did not wear sandals except during war (don't want your feet to be soft and flabby, gotta make them rock-proof), Sparta itself didn't rely on walls (although they did use them [notably at the battle of the Hot Gates to keep the Persians from landing south of the gates] and the city did eventually make some). Theres also the complicated issue of their government, not sure how to replicate that, dual monarchy with the Kings having no real governmental powers and an oligarchy ruling at home. Maybe having a Legendary warrior lead each of two squads and having every position (Book Keeper, Mayor, Captain of the Guard even maybe) filled by a useless fat rich guy in a nice shiny house. I should also point out alot of their generals and kings were known for a love of gold and that 50% of the population being in the military is not very accurate, actual Spartan soldiers were vastly outnumbered by the Helots. --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> ==No mining==<br /> Now that you construct walls and fortifications out of wood, I wonder if anyone is going to take on a 'no mining' challenge? You're going to need a ''lot'' of wood! --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 17:00, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Some people already are :p --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:44, 6 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==Assassination==<br /> I tried &quot;Assassination&quot; the other day and found that it was incredibly easy with a group of axedwarves. Not only did I kill the hardest-to-get-at goblin, I killed every last other goblin too. In the end, there were only 2 dogs and 2 dwarves dead (the last one fell, sadly, to the last goblin left, who was hiding in the tunnels.--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 22:51, 15 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> :Now do it with 7 untrained dwarves with no armor. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 19:30, 29 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> == Humanlike? ==<br /> It should be noted that the 'human-like fortress' as described is historically inaccurate. In particular, its either misrepresenting or confusing various details. One major point is that a _castle_ never incorporated a town. There are walled towns and there are castles, but these are entirely different things. A couple of historical periods/styles would lead to the following different suggestions:<br /> <br /> (A) Larger (stone) medieval castles sometimes had industry in the bailey. This was often pressed up against the outer wall to save on space and wall building. It was usually militarily useful industry (ie, metalsmithing of various types). Cooking and possibly brewing might also happen, and cooking at least would have been handled in the keep itself. Industries including jewelry, carpentry (on a permanent basis), and other non-military production would have been outside the castle, quite possibly in a town nearby. <br /> <br /> (B) More isolated smaller castles would have done necessary production in the bailey on a temporary basis (ie, erecting a carpentry work area when needed and disassembling it afterwards), with a few permanent industries (notably blacksmithing).<br /> <br /> (C) 'Dark Ages' castles would be made of wood, and weren't large enough to accomodate much industry. Instead they would have imported everything. The early castle was a defensible home for the lord and his family, and would only house them and a few military retainers.<br /> <br /> It should be noted that the lack of focus on industry in a castle meant diverse tasks might share the same workspace and in fact be handled by the same person. The purpose of a castle is military, not production, and castle's only produced goods for internal demand that either could not be imported, would be inconvenient to import, or were critical to the military purpose (and couldn't afford access to those goods being lost during a siege).<br /> <br /> (D) A walled town would have no keep. Nobles would not live there. Basically, towns would build a wall around their perimeter for defense. More important towns often grew to encompass nearby castles, and often outgrew their walls - which might either lead to substantial portions beyond the walls or accruing walls occasionally to encompass new growth. Despite a castle potentially being encompassed by a town, the castle and town were administratively separate - towns receiving independent charters from the crown - and the town was never subject to the lord of the castle (who may well control the surrounding countryside).<br /> <br /> Given the nature of Dwarf Fortress, treating it as a town rather than a castle is probably preferable unless you really want to emphasize military skills, which could be interesting. You could, of course, create a castle and a town, keeping them as virtually separate entities, with military dwarves and nobles living in the castle and other dwarves living in the town.<br /> <br /> --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:11, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :When did we start trying to make DF fit real-world history?<br /> :His idea seems perfectly fine when compared to in-game human towns/cities, as they have a keep and whatnot as part of the city. Only difference is adding a wall around it all. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:25, 30 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Insane Renegade (just a thought) ==<br /> <br /> Well I was thinking something along these lines,<br /> <br /> They all think that your crazy, so you and some others ran. You shouldn't trust them... They want you dead. Except for the (random profession/job) they think like you. KILL THEM KILL ALL THAT OPPOSE YOU!!,<br /> <br /> Description:<br /> Xenophobia, Do not trade with others, Kill all immigrants except ones of a certain job/profession. If you want to go as a truly insane person, ban all statues and engravings of Dwarven faces (the statues, THE ROCKS! THEY ALL WANT ME DEAD!!!!) Be prepared for a long life of hatred and sieges.<br /> <br /> ~LrZeph~<br /> <br /> P.S. if anyone edits this and puts it on the main thing please give me partial credit... Thank you and goodnight!<br /> <br /> :How is this different from [[Challenges#Outcast|Outcast]], aside from the RP? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:41, 22 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :: Oh dear, i missed that one. never mind<br /> <br /> ~LrZeph~ 15:11 23 June 2008<br /> <br /> == Dystopian society ==<br /> <br /> Anyone thought of making a fortress based off one of those dystopian futures found in scifi novels like 1984, We, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451? The way I imagine it, it would be similar to the Equaland challenge, with variations based on the dystopian principle of your choice. For example, if you want to encourage uniformity across your population, enable all labor for every dwarf and persecute anyone who skills up too quickly at a given skill. A strict caste system might also be implementable, a la Brave New World. Another idea would be to kill off or at least &quot;re-educate&quot; any dwarf that falls below ecstatic for an extended period of time. Tons of ideas at {{wiki|Dystopia}}. Thoughts? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :That sounds like a good challenge. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:24, 24 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Underwater Building ==<br /> <br /> I've decided to take on the underwater building challenge, and have started Migrurmestthos, The Ocean-Citadel. But ah... I can't for the live of me figure out how I'm going to get glass blocks to the bottom of the ocean. Any ideas? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 20:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT)&lt;br&gt;<br /> ''P.S.: I've altered the creature tokens and set my Dwarves to Aquatic.''<br /> <br /> :I recommend either<br /> :#Don't build it in the ocean.<br /> :#Use pumping to pump a large area of the top level of the ocean out. Do the same with a slightly smaller area one level down. Repeat as desired.<br /> :#Pump the ocean out, build, then let it flow back in. This is like the above, but with the whole visible ocean. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:45, 20 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::Oookay, okay. I have single-handedly diverted the courses of raging rapids to give my children something to drink, harnessed the power of lava, and built towers of glass. However, I cannot help but approach the idea of pumping out '''the entire ocean''' with a bit of skepticism. Is this ''really'' possible? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 22:53, 21 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::Aye, it is. Aside from waves, the &quot;entire&quot; ocean is really, due to map limitations, just a large, fast-refilling lake. If you build a ring of pumps properly, you should be able to clear the water from a section, which can be as large as your fortress map. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 02:34, 23 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::: I've personally been using 'canals' in my fortress for quite a while, and what I do is simply allocate nobles' rooms along the side of the canal, and before flooding the waterway, I dig into it and build glass windows and blocks so the nobles can watch the fish swim by. I doubt it actually raises the room value by any more than the glass windows' base value, but I like the effect. This isn't really an &quot;underwater city&quot; per se, but it's born of the same concept. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 07:45, 26 July 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Dwarf Factory ==<br /> <br /> --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:12, 28 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> Looking to develop this callenge concept:<br /> <br /> Your fortress is a highly specialized industrial complex. Select one item, or very narrow category of items. (ie Flour, Scepters, Shoes, Silk Bags, Crossbow Bolts) This is your factory's product. You must produce as much of it as possible, and it may only be used for export to any any and all caravans which visit your factory. Set up shift schedules, assign massive teams of dwarves (or even all of them!) to your core product, and generally devote your fort to maximizing output. <br /> <br /> Variants: &lt;br /&gt;<br /> Assembly line - Each Dwarf is assigned a single stage of the production cycle, this is their only labour. Workshops should be grouped togeather by type, ordered based on the production cycle and grouped with relevant stockpiles.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Communal - Every Dwarf has every relevant labour enabled, in addition to whatever else they do for the fort.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> High Management - For each Task in your production, appoint a department head. As the number of workers in each department grows, start appointing shift managers. As your factory expands in size, appoint reigonal coordinators and quality control bureaus. Cap this off with a board of directors and a CEO. None of these dwarves do anything but fill noble slots and build social skills.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Prison/Work Camp - Noble dwarves do not contribute to labour. Max the fortress/royal Guard at all times and draft 20% of the population into the army. The remaining dwarves are prisoners who must produce output. Build walls, rig traps, and make an example of anyone who fails to meet their quota.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> People's Glorious Five-Year Plan - As above, but arrive with no skilled workers, rig all facilities with self destructs and kill switches, and only arm one in ten of your soldiers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br /> <br /> Bonus: Only produce things vital to the survival of your workers, or directly involved in making your product. Anything else must be imported.&lt;br /&gt;<br /> Further Bonus: Produce only your final product, all raw materials must be imported. spend the surplus on anything else you may need.<br /> <br /> How's it sound?<br /> <br /> == Luxurious Tomb ==<br /> <br /> Build an extravagant mausoleum for your entire dwarf community. Make it multi-leveled, make it a pyramid, make it out of glass if you want - but it must serve no other purpose than to be a dying place, and must not be accessed for any purpose other than to build it. Add a few decorations here and there, statues, tables, and a whole lot of coffins to house everyone.<br /> <br /> Once it's complete, turn your fortress into a ghost town. Remove the designation of all your stockpiles. Forbid all the workshops and forbid access to the different areas of the fort as they get deserted to limit dwarf movement. Lure everyone into the tomb, seal the entrance from the inside and watch everyone die inside their new mausoleum. The tomb should be designed such that the initial entry point cannot easily be guessed (i.e.: The entrance should be sealed using a wall or some other solid structure - not via a door you just mark forbidden.<br /> <br /> BONUS: make access to the tomb difficult or impossible, either by causing a cave-in in the tunnel that leads towards it, or by flooding the surrounding area in water or magma.<br /> <br /> BONUS #2: Build the tomb over a chasm. Find a way to drop the whole tomb-building into it once everyone's inside.<br /> <br /> == Agoraphobia ==<br /> <br /> Your dwarves are absolutely terrified of the great outdoors, ([[carp|and]] [[Elephant|with]] [[Giant eagle|good]] [[undead|reason]] and want nothing more than to be nestled tightly in the &quot;[[Giant Cave Spider|relative]] [[Pit|saftey]]&quot; of the underground. Upon arrival, immediately burrow into the ground and haul all your supplies out of the sun's glare, and then never set foot on the surface again. Also, to help reduce anxiety, have no single chamber larger than 5x5, and let no hall stretch farther than 5 tiles between doors.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 11:42, 15 September 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == &lt;insert material&gt; Fort....wait, what? ==<br /> <br /> Ok, now I can understand a glass fort...and I can understand making it all outside, but how does one build it under water? Can someone please tell me how to do this so I can try to create my own Dwarven SeaLab? [[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 05:58, 17 October 2008 (EDT)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Windmill&diff=3147 2008-10-17T08:43:33Z

<p>Alkyon: /* Where's the wind? */</p> <hr /> <div>I changed the number of required pieces to 4, apparently thats all it needs on my game<br /> <br /> <br /> Does anyone know if it's possible to connect multiple windmills together with gearboxes and axles, then send a single shaft over to your workshops? Will you get twice as much power from twice as many windmills? (I know common sense says you should, but has anyone tried it in the game?)<br /> <br /> :I verified that connecting two windmills does double the power. Also, added how to get power back to the surface, some folks were having problems with that. -- Infinity<br /> <br /> :Infinity: Doesn't using so many gear assemblies virtually drain all of the power? Would it not be a better idea to build a pedestal from a series of walls and floors to support a raised windmill, with a single gear assembly underneath it on the surface level? [[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 06:06, 31 October 2007 (EDT) <br /> ::Yes, good idea. I like the windmill tower! --[[User:Infinity|Infinity]] 01:19, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> There's an assumption in this article which states that all windmills generate the same amount of power. I think there is wind-dependancy or height above the land changes how much power is generated. I've had windmills that power up to 20, but never 40 (yet). We need more information to confirm how it works. --[[User:Gibbonofdoom|Gibbonofdoom]] 05:17, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> I have removed &lt;blockquote&gt;It is not presently possible to build the gear assembly or axle ''before'' building the windmill&amp;mdash;doing so will prevent the windmill from connecting to the assembly or axle. Build the windmill first, and then build the axle or gear assembly beneath it. You can of course still have the remainder of your machine built. ???? --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]&lt;/blockquote&gt;<br /> from the article. In addition to Markavian, I've also confirmed it to be false. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:00, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :In my experience, Markavian is correct. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 13:52, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I have built a gear and then a windmill on the layer above of it via an adjacent walkway. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 23:50, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Sometimes my windmills just self-destruct. I think it's because I turned off the gear assembly under it (with a lever). It might also be because the gear assembly floods with water from the pump it powers. Has anyone else had this happen to them? [[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 11:54, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> - Yeah. That's the catalyst. a gear under the windmill supports the windmill. (it's still hanging though) ... when you lever the gear off, the support is lost... and the windmill can fall over. It's very ;_; To verify this, build your gear and attach it to the lever first... with the lever in the &quot;on&quot; position, the windmill can be built over it. in the other position, it cannot. This also explains why the user thought it wasn't possible to build the gear first. of course you'd want to build it and immediately turn it off... otherwise, you'll flood your area before your containing wall gets finished :) --[[User:Vaevictus|Vae]] 12:55, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == how does it connect? ==<br /> <br /> When you place/remove windmills, do they leave a hole in the ground/roof, or is it a non-contact force they are using to apply torque on the assemblies (magnets maybe?). Do they punch a hole in like the wells-of-old?<br /> <br /> -- When placed, it's a small hole with a sealed wooden grommet to prevent liquid penetration. Part of the removal process is to fill this small hole. --[[User:Vaevictus|Vae]] 13:25, 08 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Is the construction example a bad idea? ==<br /> -- Just wondering. I put it there, but wouldn't be upset it it was replaced with something prettier. --[[User:Vaevictus|Vae]] 14:15, 08 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> &lt;blockquote&gt;<br /> This allows water to flow past the pump when the pump is off, allowing for two pumps to use a single set of walls to contain the flowing water, with the direction based on which pump is on. It also allows for maintenance access from the pipe, at the cost of 3 extra wall sections and one extra floor.<br /> &lt;/blockquote&gt; Could you explain this in more detail? allowing two pumps to use a single set of walls? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:24, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==33f==<br /> <br /> I've built several windmills in .33f and none of them are producing any power. Someone please check if their windmills are working properly. I've also have had the same problem with watermills. This is on a map generated with the new patch. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 21:50, 16 December 2007 (EST)<br /> :The only one i've build with the new version .33f worked fine. It was built on the ground level that I started on just in case that makes a difference, it's currently turning a millstone via a single gear on the level below. The map was also generated with .33f. Sorry I can't be more help :/ --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 08:24, 17 December 2007 (EST)<br /> ::Some maps dont have wind.--[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 09:28, 17 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> ==Confusing Text==<br /> I have removed<br /> <br /> On high-wind maps, this gives 35 power for the first windmill, and 33 power for each extra windmill. <br /> On low-wind maps, this is reduced to 15 power for the first and 13 power for additional windmills.<br /> <br /> because it made it sound like the windmills actively produced less power, rather than being clear it is talking about *net* power. I replaced it with text giving the correct impression. (Also, even when read as talking about net power, it was far too specific as it assumed optimal windmill clustering). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:37, 27 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Where's the wind? ==<br /> <br /> How do I check for wind on my map? I built a windmill to test if a pump can desalinate water, but it's not doing anything. My fortress is on the coast, and in my experience those tend to have a lot of wind.<br /> <br /> :Is your windmill outside? Have you placed your machine part (pump or gear assembly) directly beneath the center square? What does it say when you {{k|q}}uery the windmill? Also, please sign and date=stamp your messages with four tildas. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 16:27, 16 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::I apologize if my formatting isn't correct, I'm new to editing wikis, I'll do my best to copy you and maybe figure some of it out. Anyways, I tore it down as I had no use for a non-working windmill, and it would have burned down in a grass fire soon after anyways, but when it was up it was indeed above ground. Directly below the center (floor removed by channeling) was a gear assembly. On the level directly below (again floor removed) was the unpassable tile of the water pump. When I {{k|q}}ueried the windmill, it said it needed 15 power, but was providing/receiving none. [[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 04:43, 17 October 2008 (EDT)</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Windmill&diff=3145 2008-10-16T01:31:19Z

<p>Alkyon: Where's the wind?</p> <hr /> <div>I changed the number of required pieces to 4, apparently thats all it needs on my game<br /> <br /> <br /> Does anyone know if it's possible to connect multiple windmills together with gearboxes and axles, then send a single shaft over to your workshops? Will you get twice as much power from twice as many windmills? (I know common sense says you should, but has anyone tried it in the game?)<br /> <br /> :I verified that connecting two windmills does double the power. Also, added how to get power back to the surface, some folks were having problems with that. -- Infinity<br /> <br /> :Infinity: Doesn't using so many gear assemblies virtually drain all of the power? Would it not be a better idea to build a pedestal from a series of walls and floors to support a raised windmill, with a single gear assembly underneath it on the surface level? [[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 06:06, 31 October 2007 (EDT) <br /> ::Yes, good idea. I like the windmill tower! --[[User:Infinity|Infinity]] 01:19, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> There's an assumption in this article which states that all windmills generate the same amount of power. I think there is wind-dependancy or height above the land changes how much power is generated. I've had windmills that power up to 20, but never 40 (yet). We need more information to confirm how it works. --[[User:Gibbonofdoom|Gibbonofdoom]] 05:17, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> I have removed &lt;blockquote&gt;It is not presently possible to build the gear assembly or axle ''before'' building the windmill&amp;mdash;doing so will prevent the windmill from connecting to the assembly or axle. Build the windmill first, and then build the axle or gear assembly beneath it. You can of course still have the remainder of your machine built. ???? --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]&lt;/blockquote&gt;<br /> from the article. In addition to Markavian, I've also confirmed it to be false. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:00, 1 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :In my experience, Markavian is correct. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 13:52, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I have built a gear and then a windmill on the layer above of it via an adjacent walkway. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 23:50, 31 October 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Sometimes my windmills just self-destruct. I think it's because I turned off the gear assembly under it (with a lever). It might also be because the gear assembly floods with water from the pump it powers. Has anyone else had this happen to them? [[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 11:54, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> - Yeah. That's the catalyst. a gear under the windmill supports the windmill. (it's still hanging though) ... when you lever the gear off, the support is lost... and the windmill can fall over. It's very ;_; To verify this, build your gear and attach it to the lever first... with the lever in the &quot;on&quot; position, the windmill can be built over it. in the other position, it cannot. This also explains why the user thought it wasn't possible to build the gear first. of course you'd want to build it and immediately turn it off... otherwise, you'll flood your area before your containing wall gets finished :) --[[User:Vaevictus|Vae]] 12:55, 2 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == how does it connect? ==<br /> <br /> When you place/remove windmills, do they leave a hole in the ground/roof, or is it a non-contact force they are using to apply torque on the assemblies (magnets maybe?). Do they punch a hole in like the wells-of-old?<br /> <br /> -- When placed, it's a small hole with a sealed wooden grommet to prevent liquid penetration. Part of the removal process is to fill this small hole. --[[User:Vaevictus|Vae]] 13:25, 08 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Is the construction example a bad idea? ==<br /> -- Just wondering. I put it there, but wouldn't be upset it it was replaced with something prettier. --[[User:Vaevictus|Vae]] 14:15, 08 November 2007 (EDT)<br /> &lt;blockquote&gt;<br /> This allows water to flow past the pump when the pump is off, allowing for two pumps to use a single set of walls to contain the flowing water, with the direction based on which pump is on. It also allows for maintenance access from the pipe, at the cost of 3 extra wall sections and one extra floor.<br /> &lt;/blockquote&gt; Could you explain this in more detail? allowing two pumps to use a single set of walls? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:24, 9 November 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> ==33f==<br /> <br /> I've built several windmills in .33f and none of them are producing any power. Someone please check if their windmills are working properly. I've also have had the same problem with watermills. This is on a map generated with the new patch. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 21:50, 16 December 2007 (EST)<br /> :The only one i've build with the new version .33f worked fine. It was built on the ground level that I started on just in case that makes a difference, it's currently turning a millstone via a single gear on the level below. The map was also generated with .33f. Sorry I can't be more help :/ --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 08:24, 17 December 2007 (EST)<br /> ::Some maps dont have wind.--[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 09:28, 17 December 2007 (EST)<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> ==Confusing Text==<br /> I have removed<br /> <br /> On high-wind maps, this gives 35 power for the first windmill, and 33 power for each extra windmill. <br /> On low-wind maps, this is reduced to 15 power for the first and 13 power for additional windmills.<br /> <br /> because it made it sound like the windmills actively produced less power, rather than being clear it is talking about *net* power. I replaced it with text giving the correct impression. (Also, even when read as talking about net power, it was far too specific as it assumed optimal windmill clustering). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:37, 27 April 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Where's the wind? ==<br /> <br /> How do I check for wind on my map? I built a windmill to test if a pump can desalinate water, but it's not doing anything. My fortress is on the coast, and in my experience those tend to have a lot of wind.</div>

Alkyon https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=40d_Talk:Fire_imp&diff=38209 2008-10-13T15:52:28Z

<p>Alkyon: A vast understatement!</p> <hr /> <div>== Wrestling? ==<br /> <br /> I just had a mechanic get attacked by one. He moved into its tile (I assume to wrestle) and instantly died of heat. Should this be noted?--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 19:59, 28 February 2008 (EST)<br /> <br /> :That is the imp using his fireball attack on a stupid dwarf, so I guess it's already in the article --[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 20:27, 3 October 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Defensive Uses ==<br /> <br /> I'm currently exploring the defensive uses of fire imps after bagging a few in cage traps. They don't seem too keen on fireballing goblin attackers, which was my original plan (had them confined behind some fortifications, but they wouldn't fire on the goblins). Further experiments required, or can someone confirm that they won't attack anyone but my dwarves? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 16:35, 31 March 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::is it possible to tame fire imps with the dungeon master? [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 14:12, 12 June 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::There is no PET_EXOTIC tag, so no.[[User:StrawberryBunny|StrawberryBunny]] 09:35, 8 August 2008 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == A vast understatement! ==<br /> <br /> &quot;Fire imps are nasty little creatures that live in magma vents.&quot;<br /> <br /> Nasty little creatures doesn't cut it. Every time I settle on top of a volcano, an imp will surface, get pissed at anything, be it an immigrating dwarf or a muskox, and cause a wildfire! The worst part is that there is no message for &quot;The world is burning!&quot; so I end up losing a dwarf or two before I notice it!<br /> <br /> I think the worst was I lost both of my initial miners because they decided to take a break in the path of the fire. They got the hint when I gave the order &quot;everyone inside&quot; but it was too late, they burned up before they could make it back inside.<br /> <br /> That being said, I find some vertical nickel bars do wonders in securing my magma forges from imp tampering. They're a definite &quot;must bring&quot; on any volcanic expedition.</div>

Alkyon