Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d:Domestic animal

2010-01-28T15:43:22Z

Aykavil: witches are not part of DF

''(If you're looking for domestic skills, see [[Skill]]s)''

Domestic [[animal]]s are creatures that can be used by dwarfs one way or another without taming or training, usually for security or food. Technically, they have the [domestic] tag in the [[Raws]]. They can be bought at [[embark]], or [[trade]]d for with [[caravan]]s. Wild versions of domesticated animals (horses, muskoxen, etc) can be [[tame]]d, as can almost any wild animal.

Every fortress expedition starts with two free domestic '''draft animals''' which pulled their wagon to the fortress site. This can be any of the animals in the list below with the [WAGON_PULLER] tag (so any except dogs and cats) which were available at [[embark]]. Fortresses have no use for a wagon after, except to break it up for wood, so these two animals can be slaughtered or kept for breeding and making your dwarves [[preferences|happy]].

While any animals of the same species ''bought'' at [[embark]] always alternate male/female/male/female (in that order), the two free wagon animals do not. It's certainly possible to get a breeding pair, but the odds are heavily against it.

Domestic animals include:

:* [[cat]]s
:* [[dog]]s
:* [[horse]]s
:* [[cow]]s
:* [[muskox]]en
:* [[donkey]]s
:* [[mule]]s
:* [[camel]]s, one- or two-humped

[[Category:Creatures]]
[[Category:Animals]]

40d:Bone

2010-01-27T14:45:40Z

Aykavil: grammar

'''Bone''' can be obtained from the [[corpse]]s of dead [[creatures]], or from [[severed body part]]s. A corpse close to a [[butcher's shop]] will automatically schedule a butchering job, yielding a number of bones proportional to the creature's size. Any bones on a tile defined as "[[Tile_attributes|Above Ground]]" will vanish over time.

Bones are processed at the [[craftsdwarf's workshop]] and [[bowyer's workshop]], and can be used to make:

* Bone [[craft]]s, which can be sold. Bone crafts have a value dependent on their quality and an inherent number that depends on the creature it came from. [[Troll]] and [[elephant]] bones are more valuable than [[goblin]] or [[raccoon]] bones, for example. [[Dragon]] bones are extremely valuable.
* Bone [[armor]]. Bone armor is not particularly protective, but is very light and easy to make early. High quality armor is more protective, and masterwork bone armor is as protective as basic quality [[iron]] armor.
* Bone [[decoration]]s. Any decoratable item can be decorated with bone, which adds to the items' value. No item can have more than one decoration of a certain kind of bone, but can have multiple decorations if the bones come from different kinds of creatures. A totem counts against the bone types for this, so a deer skull totem can not be decorated with deer bone.
* Bone [[bolt]]s. These bolts are fired from crossbows. They are not valuable, so [[marksdwarf|marksdwarves]] will use them for practice, as opposed to [[metal]] bolts.
*Bone [[crossbow]]s. While they do much less [[damage]] in melee than crossbows of better materials, they are very easy to make and great for marksdwarf practice. They are one of the few weapons available on maps without much [[metal]].

The [[quality]] of all bone items created depends on the [[bone carving]] skill of the [[dwarf]] who creates them, with the exception of crossbows, which requires [[crossbow-making]].
The [[value]] of bone items depends on the animal the bones come from. Animal byproduct value modifiers are found [[Modvalue|here]]. The number of bones found in a stack is proportional to the number of [[bolts]] in the bolt stack that can be created from them. Bone stack size depends on the [[size]] of the original animal.

Bone is not a building material.

==See also==
*[[Meat industry]]

[[Category:Materials]]

40d:Bone

2010-01-27T14:40:11Z

Aykavil: Undo revision 61671 by Quietust (Talk) It is not redundant: see talk page; if you think it's wrong, correct it.

'''Bone''' can be obtained from the [[corpse]]s of dead [[creatures]], or from [[severed body part]]s. A corpse close to a [[butcher's shop]] will automatically schedule a butchering job, yielding a number of bones proportional to the creature's size. Any bones on a tile defined as "[[Tile_attributes|Above Ground]]" will vanish over time.

Bones are processed at the [[craftsdwarf's workshop]] and [[bowyer's workshop]], and can be used to make:

* Bone [[craft]]s, which can be sold. Bone crafts have a value dependent on their quality and an inherent number that depends on the creature it came from. [[Troll]] and [[elephant]] bones are more valuable than [[goblin]] or [[raccoon]] bones, for example. [[Dragon]] bones are extremely valuable.
* Bone [[armor]]. Bone armor is not particularly protective, but is very light and easy to make early. High quality armor is more protective, and masterwork bone armor is as protective as basic quality [[iron]] armor.
* Bone [[decoration]]s. Any decoratable item can be decorated with bone, which adds to the items' value. No item can have more than one decoration of a certain kind of bone, but can have multiple decorations if the bones come from different kinds of creatures. A totem counts against the bone types for this, so a deer skull totem can not be decorated with deer bone.
* Bone [[bolt]]s. These bolts are fired from crossbows. They are not valuable, so [[marksdwarf|marksdwarves]] will use them for practice, as opposed to [[metal]] bolts.
*Bone [[crossbow]]s. While they do much less [[damage]] in melee than crossbows of better materials, they are very easy to make and great for marksdwarf practice. They are one of the few weapons available on maps without much [[metal]].

The [[quality]] of all bone items created depends on the [[bone carving]] skill of the [[dwarf]] who creates them, with the exception of crossbows, which requires [[crossbow-making]].
The [[value]] of bone items depends on the animal the bones come from. Animal byproduct value modifiers are found [[Modvalue|here]]. The number of bones found in a stacks is proportional the number of [[bolts]] in the bolt stack that can be created from them. Bone stack size depends on the [[size]] of the original animal.

Bone is not a building material.

==See also==
*[[Meat industry]]

[[Category:Materials]]

40d:Bone

2010-01-26T13:29:30Z

Aykavil: Link to number of bones and bone values listings.

'''Bone''' can be obtained from the [[corpse]]s of dead [[creatures]], or from [[severed body part]]s. A corpse close to a [[butcher's shop]] will automatically schedule a butchering job, yielding a number of bones proportional to the creature's size. Any bones on a tile defined as "[[Tile_attributes|Above Ground]]" will vanish over time.

Bones are processed at the [[craftsdwarf's workshop]] and [[bowyer's workshop]], and can be used to make:

* Bone [[craft]]s, which can be sold. Bone crafts have a value dependent on their quality and an inherent number that depends on the creature it came from. [[Troll]] and [[elephant]] bones are more valuable than [[goblin]] or [[raccoon]] bones, for example. [[Dragon]] bones are extremely valuable.
* Bone [[armor]]. Bone armor is not particularly protective, but is very light and easy to make early. High quality armor is more protective, and masterwork bone armor is as protective as basic quality [[iron]] armor.
* Bone [[decoration]]s. Any decoratable item can be decorated with bone, which adds to the items' value. No item can have more than one decoration of a certain kind of bone, but can have multiple decorations if the bones come from different kinds of creatures. A totem counts against the bone types for this, so a deer skull totem can not be decorated with deer bone.
* Bone [[bolt]]s. These bolts are fired from crossbows. They are not valuable, so [[marksdwarf|marksdwarves]] will use them for practice, as opposed to [[metal]] bolts.
*Bone [[crossbow]]s. While they do much less [[damage]] in melee than crossbows of better materials, they are very easy to make and great for marksdwarf practice. They are one of the few weapons available on maps without much [[metal]].

The [[quality]] of all bone items created depends on the [[bone carving]] skill of the [[dwarf]] who creates them, with the exception of crossbows, which requires [[crossbow-making]].
The [[value]] of bone items depends on the animal the bones come from. Animal byproduct value modifiers are found [[Modvalue|here]]. The number of bones found in a stacks is the same as the number of [[bolts]] in the bolt stack that can be created from them. Bone stack size depends on the [[size]] of the original animal.

Bone is not a building material.

==See also==
*[[Meat industry]]

[[Category:Materials]]

40d Talk:Bone

2010-01-26T13:16:43Z

Aykavil: /* Bone Value List */

== Underground bones ==

I'm pretty sure bone in refuse piles underground lasts a LOT longer, if not indefinitely. This makes it helpful to have one place above ground that accepts everything, and then another underground that only collects bones for carving. Can anyone verify this? I don't want to put this information in the article in case it just SEEMS like a lot longer to me because my games run at 10fps. --Gotthard 08:56, 29 November 2007 (EST)

:I use that underground refuse for bones,skulls and shells and never saw any bone to dissapear on any 'underground' tile in at least 8 years. A refuse pile is not needed (except to actually deliver the bones there in the first place). 'Inside' but 'above ground' refuse stockpiles don't help bones to last longer at all.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:47, 29 November 2007 (EST)

::I tried an experiment with keeping bones "inside", and [[forbidden|forbade]] some turtle bones in my outside refuse pile, which I then built a roof over. Those bones persisted long after other bones, shells and vermin corpses had disappeared. ''However'', I've just reloaded that game and the turtle bones are no longer there. They certainly lasted from mid-winter to mid-spring though.
:: So in conclusion: Either or both of being "inside" or forbidden makes bones last longer; There is the possibility that such bones will disappear on reloading the game. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 04:03, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

== Severed limbs ==

:AFAIK, all refuse left above ground disappear at season changes (at least bones/shells/chunks, not sure about the limbs and corpses)
I'm interested in following - how much bones will the corpse leave, if it lacks limbs. It seems to me, that a goblin corpse will generate 6 bone stack in any case. In this case: you kill a goblin - you get 6 bones, but if you tear his legs before killing him, you'll get two bones for legs, and six for body. Can anyone verify and clear this out?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:17, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:From experience in past forts, I seem to remember each limb loss reduced the "main" stack by one.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:09, 11 January 2008 (EST)
::In my current fort, I just had a bunch of goblins met a bunch of *large steel serrated disks*, so I had a LOT of limbs and a LOT of corpses. Some time passed. I have a LOT of "goblin bone"s and a LOT of "goblin bone[6]"s. not a single "goblin bone[2]" (or [3/4/5]). Will investigate further, cause they could be just stripped of ALL their bones >;)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:19, 4 February 2008 (EST)
::Made some tests: dropped kittens from very high. Result is always a corpse, four legs, head and tail. after rotting they leave 5 separate bones, two in a stack (body), and, strangely, no skull (no idea why, maybe bug). So, that's a way to farm bones!--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 08:10, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

== butcher goblins ==
Does butchering goblin or elven corpses work? I also failed to butcher the corpse of a cat killed by goblins though it was right next to the butcher and the horse next to it was butchered (the cat was a pet). --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:17, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:Depending on the creature tags, some creatures cannot be butchered, and pet-like creatures usually can only be butchered live. If they die in battle they cannot be butchered (but you can still use the bones after they rot). --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:02, 29 February 2008 (EST)
::Well, that exactly fits my experience - should we put a note in the article? Saves all the hauling of goblins and ''accidently'' died elves ;). They also rot faster outside..--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 13:23, 29 February 2008 (EST)

== Dwarven Bones ==
Is it possible to use dwarven bones for any kind of crafting? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:30, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:If you edit the raws. Otherwise, if you get a fell mood. Otherwise, nope. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:13, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

::Yeah, I think I'll modify the code. I think it makes sense if you use dwarven bones to make weapons; I mean come on, they're already dead so that harm is already done. Besides, dwarves don't care about using goblin bones, so why not dwarf bones?! :) --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:08, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Anyone know what I need to modify in order to allow dwarf bones to be used in boneworking? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:52, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

== crossbows ==

The [[crossbow]] page seems certain that the material of a crossbow only affects damage output if it's being used as a hammer. Bolts are affected as by material.
--[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 11:55, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:The [[crossbow]] page is right. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:13, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

== bonecarn ==

I don't see this ever coming up in normal unmodded gameplay, but can creatures with the [BONECARN] tag eat things(armor, bolts, crafts) made from bone?

:I don't think so. I'd imagine that anything made out of bone is a seperate kind of item, and so not edible. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:49, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

== Bone Value List ==

Having a listing of notable bone type values here would be pretty convenient, if it can be set up. Or does it exist somewhere else and it either isn't linked from the Bone page or I missed it somehow? - [[User:E-mouse|E-mouse]] 20:15, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

:I was just thinking of putting one these together, ordered by most bones returned. I guess I'll go ahead and start compiling info. Edit: Ok, i reread your post in a somewhat more coherent state (after eating) and we where thinking of completely different things. I was thinking of putting together a list of what animals drop what kinds of bones/meat/skin etc, not a list of the value (in dwarfbucks?) of each kind of bone. I have no idea how one would go about that, and if they even HAVE a value. --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 16:21, 5 January 2009 (EST)

:: The listing of animal product value modifiers (in dwarfbucks) exists on the [[Modvalue]] page. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 13:14, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
:: The listing of the amount of bones various animals leave exists on the [[Size]] page.--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 13:16, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

== Fish bones? ==

Do bones come from fish or not? Will I still get the bones if I cook the fish? Also, how do pearls work? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 16:21, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:Fish, when eaten, will leave behind one bone. Cooking will destroy the bones, which I feel is a bug. I believe pearls are not yet implemented.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:53, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:Fish ''meat'', however, leaves behind nothing. (The traders sometimes sell it -- for instance, "longnose gar meat", as distinct from "longnose gar".) And raw fish ("raw longnose gar") can't be eaten until it's cleaned at a fishery.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:56, 8 November 2008 (EST)

== Origin of bones ==
It's not entirely clear where bones come from. I know they come from corpses and severed limbs. I don't know whether they come from chunks or remains. It would be great if this information was put here as well as under the Refuse page. (For the record--I think remains is just things like rats, and I think they never drop bones, right? That would mean that if you want to make a 'rot stuff into bones' stockpile, you want a refuse stockpile with all corpses and all body parts but *NO* Item Types?) --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 17:34, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:You are correct - bones come only from corpses, severed body parts, and the eating of things such as turtle. Chunks are mainly flesh with little to no bone, so yeah. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 17:45, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::Roght. Add fish and raw fish from 'item types' and you're set. Chunks are produced from butchery as waste, at the same time this produces bones (so 'meat' has no bones, either). --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:48, 26 November 2008 (EST)

== Butchering baby animals ==

Does butchering animals as soon they are made produce less or equal ammounts of bones when butchered? --[[User:Katieness|Katieness]] 04:49, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== Moods ==

I have a dwarf in a fey mood who says "i need bones", but i have dog bones in a stockpile, do you need to get lucky and hope you have the right type of bones they want?– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Frandude|Frandude]]
:Usually the bones don't matter on what type as far as I've ever had. But, you sure this isn't a morose mood? In which case it has to be dwarven bones...[[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 19:47, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
::The dog probably was a pet or war dog - those are not used for artifacts (or bone carving in general). Make a graveyard pile or build a coffin that allows pets - if they get transferred there they are unusable ones. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 23:47, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

== Bones in Artifacts ==

In the Legendary Artifact page, it says that each unit of material used (e.g. bar of metal for armor, et cetera) will provide the artifact with a free decoration. Does this apply to stacks of bones, or is it a waste to have a moody dwarf use "goblin bones [6]" rather than "goblin bones"? [[User:Pariah|Pariah]] 03:05, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
:The ''only'' (I think?) time stack size matters with bones is in making bolts. Single bones ftw. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:52, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
::Baw. Well, thank you for clearing that up. Good to know! No wasted bones for me. [[User:Pariah|Pariah]] 09:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== Bone stacks > crafts? ==

Does the number of bones in a stack affect the number of/type of craft made?? E.g, Will a stack of bone (9) make more +bone sceptre+'s than bone (1)?
I could probably observe this myself, but I'm not sure if more bones just makes a bigger craft =\ like 1 bone gets made into an earring, 8 bones becomes a sceptre, etc.
anyways, thanks for any feedback =]

40d Talk:Bone

2010-01-26T13:14:06Z

Aykavil: /* Bone Value List */

== Underground bones ==

I'm pretty sure bone in refuse piles underground lasts a LOT longer, if not indefinitely. This makes it helpful to have one place above ground that accepts everything, and then another underground that only collects bones for carving. Can anyone verify this? I don't want to put this information in the article in case it just SEEMS like a lot longer to me because my games run at 10fps. --Gotthard 08:56, 29 November 2007 (EST)

:I use that underground refuse for bones,skulls and shells and never saw any bone to dissapear on any 'underground' tile in at least 8 years. A refuse pile is not needed (except to actually deliver the bones there in the first place). 'Inside' but 'above ground' refuse stockpiles don't help bones to last longer at all.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:47, 29 November 2007 (EST)

::I tried an experiment with keeping bones "inside", and [[forbidden|forbade]] some turtle bones in my outside refuse pile, which I then built a roof over. Those bones persisted long after other bones, shells and vermin corpses had disappeared. ''However'', I've just reloaded that game and the turtle bones are no longer there. They certainly lasted from mid-winter to mid-spring though.
:: So in conclusion: Either or both of being "inside" or forbidden makes bones last longer; There is the possibility that such bones will disappear on reloading the game. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 04:03, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

== Severed limbs ==

:AFAIK, all refuse left above ground disappear at season changes (at least bones/shells/chunks, not sure about the limbs and corpses)
I'm interested in following - how much bones will the corpse leave, if it lacks limbs. It seems to me, that a goblin corpse will generate 6 bone stack in any case. In this case: you kill a goblin - you get 6 bones, but if you tear his legs before killing him, you'll get two bones for legs, and six for body. Can anyone verify and clear this out?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:17, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:From experience in past forts, I seem to remember each limb loss reduced the "main" stack by one.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:09, 11 January 2008 (EST)
::In my current fort, I just had a bunch of goblins met a bunch of *large steel serrated disks*, so I had a LOT of limbs and a LOT of corpses. Some time passed. I have a LOT of "goblin bone"s and a LOT of "goblin bone[6]"s. not a single "goblin bone[2]" (or [3/4/5]). Will investigate further, cause they could be just stripped of ALL their bones >;)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:19, 4 February 2008 (EST)
::Made some tests: dropped kittens from very high. Result is always a corpse, four legs, head and tail. after rotting they leave 5 separate bones, two in a stack (body), and, strangely, no skull (no idea why, maybe bug). So, that's a way to farm bones!--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 08:10, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

== butcher goblins ==
Does butchering goblin or elven corpses work? I also failed to butcher the corpse of a cat killed by goblins though it was right next to the butcher and the horse next to it was butchered (the cat was a pet). --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:17, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:Depending on the creature tags, some creatures cannot be butchered, and pet-like creatures usually can only be butchered live. If they die in battle they cannot be butchered (but you can still use the bones after they rot). --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:02, 29 February 2008 (EST)
::Well, that exactly fits my experience - should we put a note in the article? Saves all the hauling of goblins and ''accidently'' died elves ;). They also rot faster outside..--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 13:23, 29 February 2008 (EST)

== Dwarven Bones ==
Is it possible to use dwarven bones for any kind of crafting? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:30, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:If you edit the raws. Otherwise, if you get a fell mood. Otherwise, nope. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:13, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

::Yeah, I think I'll modify the code. I think it makes sense if you use dwarven bones to make weapons; I mean come on, they're already dead so that harm is already done. Besides, dwarves don't care about using goblin bones, so why not dwarf bones?! :) --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:08, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Anyone know what I need to modify in order to allow dwarf bones to be used in boneworking? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:52, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

== crossbows ==

The [[crossbow]] page seems certain that the material of a crossbow only affects damage output if it's being used as a hammer. Bolts are affected as by material.
--[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 11:55, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:The [[crossbow]] page is right. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:13, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

== bonecarn ==

I don't see this ever coming up in normal unmodded gameplay, but can creatures with the [BONECARN] tag eat things(armor, bolts, crafts) made from bone?

:I don't think so. I'd imagine that anything made out of bone is a seperate kind of item, and so not edible. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:49, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

== Bone Value List ==

Having a listing of notable bone type values here would be pretty convenient, if it can be set up. Or does it exist somewhere else and it either isn't linked from the Bone page or I missed it somehow? - [[User:E-mouse|E-mouse]] 20:15, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

:I was just thinking of putting one these together, ordered by most bones returned. I guess I'll go ahead and start compiling info. Edit: Ok, i reread your post in a somewhat more coherent state (after eating) and we where thinking of completely different things. I was thinking of putting together a list of what animals drop what kinds of bones/meat/skin etc, not a list of the value (in dwarfbucks?) of each kind of bone. I have no idea how one would go about that, and if they even HAVE a value. --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 16:21, 5 January 2009 (EST)

:: The listing of animal product value modifiers (in dwarfbucks) exists on the [[Modvalue]] page. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 13:14, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

== Fish bones? ==

Do bones come from fish or not? Will I still get the bones if I cook the fish? Also, how do pearls work? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 16:21, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:Fish, when eaten, will leave behind one bone. Cooking will destroy the bones, which I feel is a bug. I believe pearls are not yet implemented.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:53, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:Fish ''meat'', however, leaves behind nothing. (The traders sometimes sell it -- for instance, "longnose gar meat", as distinct from "longnose gar".) And raw fish ("raw longnose gar") can't be eaten until it's cleaned at a fishery.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:56, 8 November 2008 (EST)

== Origin of bones ==
It's not entirely clear where bones come from. I know they come from corpses and severed limbs. I don't know whether they come from chunks or remains. It would be great if this information was put here as well as under the Refuse page. (For the record--I think remains is just things like rats, and I think they never drop bones, right? That would mean that if you want to make a 'rot stuff into bones' stockpile, you want a refuse stockpile with all corpses and all body parts but *NO* Item Types?) --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 17:34, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:You are correct - bones come only from corpses, severed body parts, and the eating of things such as turtle. Chunks are mainly flesh with little to no bone, so yeah. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 17:45, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::Roght. Add fish and raw fish from 'item types' and you're set. Chunks are produced from butchery as waste, at the same time this produces bones (so 'meat' has no bones, either). --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:48, 26 November 2008 (EST)

== Butchering baby animals ==

Does butchering animals as soon they are made produce less or equal ammounts of bones when butchered? --[[User:Katieness|Katieness]] 04:49, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

== Moods ==

I have a dwarf in a fey mood who says "i need bones", but i have dog bones in a stockpile, do you need to get lucky and hope you have the right type of bones they want?– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Frandude|Frandude]]
:Usually the bones don't matter on what type as far as I've ever had. But, you sure this isn't a morose mood? In which case it has to be dwarven bones...[[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 19:47, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
::The dog probably was a pet or war dog - those are not used for artifacts (or bone carving in general). Make a graveyard pile or build a coffin that allows pets - if they get transferred there they are unusable ones. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 23:47, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

== Bones in Artifacts ==

In the Legendary Artifact page, it says that each unit of material used (e.g. bar of metal for armor, et cetera) will provide the artifact with a free decoration. Does this apply to stacks of bones, or is it a waste to have a moody dwarf use "goblin bones [6]" rather than "goblin bones"? [[User:Pariah|Pariah]] 03:05, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
:The ''only'' (I think?) time stack size matters with bones is in making bolts. Single bones ftw. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:52, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
::Baw. Well, thank you for clearing that up. Good to know! No wasted bones for me. [[User:Pariah|Pariah]] 09:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

== Bone stacks > crafts? ==

Does the number of bones in a stack affect the number of/type of craft made?? E.g, Will a stack of bone (9) make more +bone sceptre+'s than bone (1)?
I could probably observe this myself, but I'm not sure if more bones just makes a bigger craft =\ like 1 bone gets made into an earring, 8 bones becomes a sceptre, etc.
anyways, thanks for any feedback =]

40d:Noble

2009-11-26T21:00:40Z

Aykavil: /* Room Requirements */

[[Noble]]s are <s>good for nothing piles of turd</s> [[dwarf|dwarves]] that <s>do pretty much nothing, except for demanding everything</s> have <s>"</s>special duties<s>"</s> in addition to or instead of the duties of normal dwarves. Some nobles also have various privileges that normal dwarves do not, and will demand certain accommodations, like a [[Room#Room_grades|better office]].

Settings specific to each noble can be set on the [[Nobles_Screen|Nobles & Administrators Screen]], accessible via the {{key|n}} key.

== Appointed Nobles ==

These are nobles that rise from your body of existing dwarves. With the exception of the [[Leader|Leader/Mayor]], you can appoint or replace any at any time through the {{k|n}}obles & administrators screen.

See main articles for more information in all cases.

=== [[Leader|Expedition Leader / Mayor]]===
:Listens to the complaints of other dwarves to make them happier. Uses [[social skill]]s. Needs an [[office]] in order to meet with outpost [[liaison]]s. It is not possible to reassign this post – at least while the original holder of the title remains alive. Your initial expedition leader is automatically chosen for you before the game [[embark|starts]] based largely on [[skill|administrative and social]] skills. A starting dwarf given just [[experience|Novice]] level in [[appraisal]] is usually selected for this job, and additional, similar skills almost ensure it 100%.

You can only appoint a new Expedition Leader if your original is slain. If you do not choose a new one, a random dwarf will be semi-randomly selected for the job after about half a season.
:* [[Leader|'''Mayor''']]
::Automatically promoted from expedition leader at 50 dwarves. Unlike the expedition leader, he requires decent housing and will make [[mandate]]s. The position of mayor is up for election every couple of years, but the existing mayor can be re-elected. This election is apparently influenced heavily by the number of [[friend]]s your dwarfs have at the time of the election, and can sometimes result in non-optimal selections (mayors with no appropriate skills whatsoever elected over well-qualified candidates), but the process is not completely understood.

=== [[Outpost broker]] ===
:Utilizes the [[appraiser]] skill and [[social skill]]s. Is the person you send to the [[depot]] to do your [[trading]]. Lets you see the imported/exported wealth of your fortress.
:: Outpost Broker changes title according to the status of your [[fortress]].

The Broker has no office requirements, also, trait's that allow for the broker to develop the necessary skills are in often times opposite of those that make a good Manager, it is smart to separate the two responsibilities.

''You want your brokers have low cooperation as it will enhance their intimidate skill, where you want your Manager to have high cooperation as it will enhance their pacifier skill. It's fine if your brokers to have low honesty because they develop the lair skill, where you want your Manager to have high honesty so they develop Flatter, however Flatterer appears to be useful in trading as well.''

=== [[Manager]] ===
:Utilizes the [[organizer]] skill. Allows the use of item build queues through the {{K|j}}obs -> {{K|m}}anager screen. Will need an office to do this (validating work orders) once your fortress has twenty dwarves.
:: Changes title according to the status of your [[fortress]].

=== [[Bookkeeper]] ===
:Utilizes the [[record keeper]] skill. Lets you see the stocks of your fortress. Needs to do occasional jobs in an office of their own if you want precise stock keeping: otherwise, stock numbers will only be precise to one significant figure (e.g., 7163 -> 7000, 7823 -> 8000).
::* Upgrades to [[treasurer]] at 100,000 fortress wealth.
::* Further upgrades to [[grand treasurer]] at 200,000 fortress wealth.
::* Further upgrades to [[hoardmaster]] at 300,000 fortress wealth.

''The same [[office]] can be used to both take stock and to conduct meetings, for both the bookkeeper and the manager, early it is fine to have these two responsibilities shared by the same dwarf, saving on real estate and decorating costs in the early game. Later though as your fort increases you will want to separate them so bookkeeping isn't taking your managers time.''

=== [[Sheriff]] ===
:You may choose a dwarf to become the Sheriff after your fortress reaches a population of 20.
::* [[Captain of the guard]]: Promoted from the sheriff once you reach 50 dwarves, along with the [[mayor]]. Activates [[fortress guard]].

== Immigrant Nobles ==

These nobles appear in [[immigration]] waves and can never be appointed or replaced* by the player.

:''(* unless the player arranges for an [[unfortunate accident]].)''

See main articles for more information in all cases.

=== [[King|King / Queen]] ===
Ruler of your parent [[civilization]] and upgrades your fort to Mountainhome. Will usually arrive with an entourage...

==== [[King consort|Royal Consort]] ====
Occasionally same gender as the King, although this has been fixed in the dev log.

==== [[Advisor]] ====
Arrives with the King's entourage.

=== [[Baron|Baron(ess)]] ===
Arrives at 80 dwarves and an unverified exported wealth.
* Activates the [[dwarven economy]].
* Upgrades to [[Count|Count(ess)]] at 110.
* Upgrade to [[Duke/Duchess]] at 140. {{verify}}

==== [[Baron Consort|Baron(ess) Consort]] ====
Arrives with the [[Baron|Baron(ess)]].
* Upgrades to [[Count Consort]] at 110.
* Upgrades to [[Duke/Duchess Consort]] at 140.

=== [[Duke|Duke / Duchess]] ===

==== [[Duke/Duchess Consort]] ====

=== [[Count]] ===

==== [[Count consort|Count/Countess Consort]] ====

=== [[Dungeon master]]===
Trains and cares for [[animals]] and performs miscellaneous metalsmithing tasks.

=== [[Hammerer]]===
He or she will enforce the law with a mighty [[hammer]]. Arrives either at 80 dwarves or with the Baron (equivalent). (Arrival trigger unknown - appears with the Count and the Countess generally.)

=== [[Philosopher]]===
Has no [[labor]] options turned on, but has no requirements and makes no [[mandate]]s. He is basically a [[child]] who is <s>"</s>wise<s>"</s>.

=== [[Tax collector]] ===
Arrives either at 80 dwarves or with the Baron (equivalent).

== Room Requirements ==

The nobles require various rooms assigned to them. Note that [[Marriage|married]] dwarves share [[bedroom]]s and [[dining room]]s, which means that you will usually need only one of each for any noble/consort pair (but you'll still need two [[tomb]]s).

If you're running out of time and your noble is starting to get angry, [[How do I increase the value of a room quickly and easily|here are some tips on increasing the value of the room quickly]]. As a quick reference, here is a summary of those rooms:

{| border="1"
!Noble!!Quarters!!Dining Room!!Office!!Tomb
|- align="center"

!Advisor
|bgcolor="#ffff44"|Great Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff44"|Great Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffff44"|Throne Room||—
|- align="center"

!Baron(ess)
|bgcolor="#ffff88"|Decent Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff88"|Decent Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffff88"|Decent Office||bgcolor="#ffff88"|Tomb
|- align="center"

!Baron(ess)'s consort
|bgcolor="#ffff88"|Decent Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff88"|Decent Dining Room||—||bgcolor="#ffff88"|Tomb
|- align="center"

!Bookkeeper
|—||—||bgcolor="#ffffee"|Meager Office||—

|- align="center"
!Captain of the guard
|bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Quarters||bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Office||—

|- align="center"
!Count(ess)
|bgcolor="#ffff44"|Great Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff44"|Great Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffff44"|Throne Room||bgcolor="#ffff44"|Mausoleum

|- align="center"
!Count consort
|bgcolor="#ffff44"|Great Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff44"|Great Dining Room||—||bgcolor="#ffff44"|Mausoleum

|- align="center"
!Duke
|bgcolor="#ffff22"|Grand Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff22"|Grand Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffff22"|Opulent Throne Room||bgcolor="#ffff22"|Grand Mausoleum

|- align="center"
!Duke Consort
|bgcolor="#ffff22"|Grand Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff22"|Grand Dining Room||—||bgcolor="#ffff22"|Grand Mausoleum

|- align="center"
!Dungeon Master
|bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Quarters||bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Office||bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Burial Chamber

|- align="center"
!Hammerer
|bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Quarters||bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Dining Room||—||—

|- align="center"
!King/Queen
|bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Throne Room||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Mausoleum

|- align="center"
!King/Queen Consort
|bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Quarters||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Dining Room||—||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Mausoleum

|- align="center"
!Manager
|—||—||bgcolor="#ffffee"|Meager Office||—

|- align="center"
!Mayor
|bgcolor="#ffff88"|Decent Quarters||bgcolor="#ffff88"|Decent Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffff88"|Decent Office||—

|- align="center"
!Broker
|—||—||—||—

|- align="center"
!Sheriff
|bgcolor="#ffffcc"|Modest Quarters||bgcolor="#ffffcc"|Modest Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffffcc"|Modest Office||—

|- align="center"
!Tax Collector
|bgcolor="#ffffcc"|Modest Quarters||bgcolor="#ffffcc"|Modest Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Office||—
|}

=== Meager Offices ===
The easiest way to give dwarves a meager office is simply to assign them a single seat in your communal dining room, making the designated "office" 1-tile large.
[[Category:Nobles]]

40d Talk:Noble

2009-11-26T20:57:37Z

Aykavil: /* Room requirements */

== Nobles affected by Reclaiming? ==

My current fortress is a reclaimed one, due to a fire that got into one of my guardtowers' food storage. In the old fortress, I had managed to get a Baron, who was soon skipping right up to Duke and Incoming king after a couple of immigrants. Well, after reclaiming, I proceeded as normal, except, even though my value is still incredibly high from the fortress (1 million+ created wealth, and 400k exported, now), I recieved a count within it's specified area of requirement, but not the Baron before. Even still, My Count does not seem to be upgrading to Duke anytime soon, seeing as I have 188 dwarves, now. Anyone have any ideas, now? [[User:Jwguy|Jwguy]] 12:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

== Noble Additions and Requirements ==

Added the dungeon keeper noble. He just showed up at my fort in year 1053. --[[User:Idles|Idles]]

I'm "fixing" the change, "16:59, 31 October 2007 Lightning4 (Talk | contribs) (1,934 bytes) (→Appointments - Isn't called bookkeeper, at least when the fortress is new.)", because in my forts it IS called bookkeeper when the fortress starts. Other edits have backed me up, suspect editor was confused--Please discuss this here? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 15:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I apologize, I was indeed incorrect. You do start with a Bookkeeper, which in very short order can be upgraded to a Treasurer. Unsure of requirements, possibly only requires 20 dwarves like the sheriff. My fortress has one and I haven't even done anything besides changed who had bookkeeping and set it to higher priority (did not build study yet). That's probably what got me confused since the bookkeeper upgrades very quickly. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 18:11, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::Yeah, 20 dwarves sounds accurate enough to put in there. He didn't turn when I had only 17. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 18:14, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

"Your original expedition leader will be the fourth dwarf down in the starting screen(the one in the middle)." This does not seem to hold true; I have a newly-developed habit of making the last dwarf on the screen (used to be my designated hauler-peasant) into the administrator, with all the social skills for filling the four starter noble roles. He gets auto-assigned to all four administrative positions; I'm thinking that instead of being fixed or random, the starting assignment is based on social skills. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 00:29, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

I had a Philosopher show up last night. I'm unsure of the requirement to get him; the only really notable thing that had happened was I got over 100 dwarves. I'm adding him to the list of Nobles, though, since I can confirm he still exists in the new version. I also divided the page structure between Appointed and Immigrant nobles, since the current header was misleading (Dungeon Master and Philosopher cannot be appointed). --[[User:Zurai|Zurai]] 20:55, 10 November 2007 (EST)

I had the king show up tonight. "The King arrives, dressed as a peasant." I have no idea what the requirements were. I missed the 1051 and 1052 dwarf caravans due to prolonged sieges, and had no immigrants those years. 1053 I had the caravan; a season later a wave of immigration brought my total dwarves up to 37. In the spring the king arrived, along with enough others to bring the population to 63. At that time I was notified that the Captain of the Guard position was available. Only thing I can think is that I hit adamantine during the siege years, and mistakenly built a number of ridiculously valuable adamantine objects. (Door, Coffin, etc.) This has raised my fortress value to 1.3 million. Is 1 million value perhaps the trigger? I have no coins, and no nobles other than the starting 4 positions. I did not appoint a sheriff. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:15, 15 November 2007 (EST)
:In the last version, hitting adamantine without proper requirement for the king triggered the reaction of having the king arrive dressed as a paysant. Maybe it's the same here. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 04:20, 15 November 2007 (EST)

== What determines expedition leader? ==

There are a number of situations to test out:
* No social skills on any dwarves
** ''Probably random, possibly based on the Dwarf's thoughts and preferences''
* Majority of social skills on one dwarf (various positions in start order)
** ''Test case 1: only one dwarf has social skills - gives that dwarf as leader and all positions''
* Social skills spread between multiple dwarves
** Is there any weight on which skill determines the leader?
--[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 01:25, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Is the first point certain? In my current fortress, I didn't assign any social skills to any dwarf, and I'm pretty certain that the dwarf that ended up expedition leader was the seventh in the list. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 02:28, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::In my current fort I assigned no social skills and the first dwarf in the list, one of my miners, is the expedition leader. --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:40, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:::Might be randomised then, I started three new fortresses for the test and each time it was the same so I made an assumption. Obviously this isn't the case can you two check what thoughts/prefs you have for those so we can look for some leadership criteria. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 08:10, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::::It's almost always been the first dwarf for me (assuming no one had leadership skills), but I could have sworn one time it assigned someone else. Maybe it defaults to the first dwarf on the list but can sometimes choose someone else under certain conditions. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 22:29, 10 November 2007 (EST)
:::::Perhaps the first dwarf didn't get it because of negative preferences? Some dwarves have a line in their thoughts/prefs that reads something like "X prefers to let others take leadership roles". [[User:Tocky|Tocky]] 11:04, 11 November 2007 (EST)

==Room requirements==
Maybe something about the nobles requiring better rooms and how to build them? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:15, 4 November 2007 (EST)
:Found it in [[room]]s, adding a link. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:34, 4 November 2007 (EST)

The [[How do I increase the value of a room quickly and easily]] page seems to be a pretty helpful page, but so far what links to it may not be much help when someone is in a pinch with their nobles ([[Door]], [[Room]], [[Furniture]] and the [[Frequently Asked Questions]]). After all, I assume that page exists for that constant problem with nobles where your new Duke requests a "Grand" dining room and DAMMIT, the best you can do is a "Decent" dining room and that sweet, kick-ass, dolomite dining table with the chrysoberyls the image of a dwarf striking down a goblin isn't ready yet because your legendary Gem Setter is "Attending Party". So perhaps a link on the Nobles page should also exist? [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 15:07, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

:New pages are largely useless without links - feel free! If you see a need, then, by definition, there is one.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:11, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

The room requirement for consorts is not clear. Seeing that they are married, don't they share a single bedroom with their spouse? Is this an exception to the law of marriage? The same questions hold for dining rooms and tombs. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 09:18, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

:It's perfectly clear. Lovers like to have their own rooms, even if they never use them. (When you start dating, you'll understand.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:04, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

:: Except that consorts are not ''dating'', they are [[Marriage|''married'']]. (When you are married, you'll understand.) --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:58, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

:::You're married, and you don't wish you had your own room sometimes? Let me put it this way - maybe the DF royals don't know about this "law of marriage" (and law of dining, and law of dying) that you adhere to. Or, maybe you've just never been dwarven royalty. If it's still not clear, then just accept that.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 15:02, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

::::Surely, you've noticed that you are contradicting what's currently written on the [[Marriage]] page. So if you're positive about the game mechanics, you should update that page. If you're not positive, that's when the ''still not clear'' kicks in. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 07:32, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

It seems that rhetorical questions and pointed hints are ineffective, so here is how to read the chart; we'll use the King/Queen and Consort as our example:

{| border="1"
!Noble!!Quarters!!Dining Room!!Office!!Tomb
|- align="center"

|- align="center"
!King
|bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Throne Room||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Mausoleum

|- align="center"
!King/Queen Consort
|bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Quarters||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Dining Room||—||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Mausoleum

|}

The position under "Noble" is the noble the chart is referring to. The listing under "Quarters" are the quarters that ''that dwarf'' wants, the listing under "Dining Room" is the dining room that ''that dwarf'' wants, and so on. There is nothing to imply that one noble will be happy with a related noble's rooms - a Baron doesn't use a King's Throne Room or Dining Hall, an Advisor doesn't use the King's Office, and neither does ''any other noble''. So, both a King and his consort want'' their own'' Royal Bedroom, Royal Dining Room, and Royal Mausoleum, and in addition the King wants a Royal Throne Room for his Office. You can share rooms between royals, but that reduces the perceived value significantly. I can find no reference to a "Law of Marriage" on the page - any assumptions not specifically listed or addressed in this chart are yours alone. If this is ''still not clear'', the requirements for individual nobles are clearly listed in their individual article pages: '''[[king]]''' and '''[[King consort|royal consort]]'''. If that's ''still not clear'', I'd suggest asking in the forums, because this format doesn't have time or space to serve your special needs.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:50, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

: When you assign a bed to a [[Marriage|married]] dwarf, its automatically also assigned to his/her spouse. This is not a case of overlapping rooms, but of a single room belonging to two different dwarves. It's easy to see this by yourself by taking a look at your married dwarves and their bedroom arrangements.--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 20:08, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

:: I did some thorough testing and updated the [[Marriage]] and [[Noble]] page accordingly. [[Albedo]], I'm afraid that your comments on this topic were both rude and unhelpful. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 20:57, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

== Not 100? ==

I just received migrants. My population went from 76 to 100, and my settlement went from a village to a town. No nobles arrived with the migrants. [[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:14, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:Still a town at 108
:Another wave, and we're a city at 111 (migrants still incoming)
::My population went from 101 to 126 in one wave. A Baroness arrived at the same time and turned my settlement into a Barony. Shortly afterwards, my settlement turned into a County (125+ dwarves?). Then Baroness upgraded into a Countess. Baron consort upgraded to a Count Consort.--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 16:49, 19 November 2007 (EST)
::Next immigration wave, my pop hit 138. Nothing happens. Then next immigration wave, my pop hits 141, the Countess upgrades to Duchess and the Count Consort upgrades to Duke Consort. Also, "Incoming King" is the top line on the Nobles screen. When you select it, it shows you what you need to achieve in terms of 1. architecture value (15000) 2. road value (5000) and 3. offerings value. (5000). I'm not sure what criteria triggers the King as it happened at the same time as my Duchess. I did just hit 200k exported wealth. Conincedence? --[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 10:27, 20 November 2007 (EST)
::Another wave, jumped to 161 pop, and some more nobles, a Duke and his Duke Consort. Now I have both a Duke and Duchess!--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 14:06, 20 November 2007 (EST)
:I was made a city and a barony at 110, and promoted to county almost immediately after. No new immigration happened, and I hadn't reached the 120 mark yet. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 16:27, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:The last immigration wave brought me from 98 to a total of 124 including baron/consort, tax collector and hammerer. It is now a City and a Barony. I'll watch out if it changes on the first immigrant from the next wave.I currently have over 500k created wealth and 17000 exported.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:05, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:One child is born and now my total population is 125. Still a City and a Barony.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:23, 25 November 2007 (EST)
:My fortress was upgraded to County when the caravan left the map and my exported wealth leaped from 17k to 26k. The trigger for the County must be either 20k or 25k exported wealth. --[[User:Another|Another]] 12:47, 25 November 2007 (EST)
::Baron arrived during an immigration wave going from 88 to 112 dwarves, and upgraded to a Count not long after arrival but ''not'' immediately either (perhaps as the population went over 100?). Exported wealth was probably around 50k at the time. Now at 119 (and 80k exported) and not yet a Duke. Looks like there's a combination of factors involved. [[User:Cim|Cim]] 11:10, 14 December 2007 (EST)
:Upgrade of the fortress to Duchy was at exactly 140th dwarf from an immigration wave. "The Incoming King" included. Total created wealth - 950k, total exported - 30k.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:37, 1 December 2007 (EST)
: My Baron arrived in the immigration wave that took me over 100 (I had peaked at 96 previously) but this was also the season where I crossed the 50,000 threshold on exported wealth. I actually went from 48,000 to 62,000 over the course of the year, and the baron arrived in the Spring, I did have an immigration wave after crossing 50,000 in the fall. Almost immediately after my baron arrived, he was promoted to count. My population is 119. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 16:41, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:At exported wealth 45k, my Baron promoted to Count at the 110th immigrant. (Baron arrived in the first immigration wave after getting 80 population, can't remember what exported wealth was then) [[User:Cim|Cim]] 20:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:Population at 93 no Baron. Next wave - first person to arrive is a Countess, with this wave population went to 114. (So, had no Baron at all) --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:39, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Verified about 140 limit for Duke. My Wrestler have given birth to a boy, the populationd got to 140, and the next message is about the fortress becoming a capital of Duchy. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:10, 24 January 2008 (EST)

== Queen As Peasant ==

I had dug out some raw adamantine, not done anything with it, and I got a notification that 'Your ruler has arrived disguised as a peasant.' At the same time, my Dungeon Master arrived. I don't have an announcement in the log about the Queen, but I do about the DM. I'm treating her like it's legit, what's the deal?

:Your ruler has heard of the discovery of adamantine, and hurried to yuor fort to oversee the digging. She turned up "disguised as a peasant" because your fort doesn't meet the regular requirements for attracting the monarch and moving to your site officially would be embarassing (in roleplaying/story terms of course). She's perfectly legit, just wasn't attracted in the "conventional" sense by having the largest, wealthiest fort in the civilisation you belong to.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:42, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Baron mandates "crowns"? ==

I just got a baron, and the first thing he mandates is two crowns. So i type Crown into the jobs/manager list. nothing. So I type crown in dwarf wiki. Nothing. Can anyone help before I have to drop this noble into a pit to keep him from locking up my crafters?
:Info about specific crafts isn't present in the new wiki, but a crown is in fact a "craft" item. [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Craftsdwarf%27s_Workshop#Crafts You can see the old wiki info about crafts here]. You'll probably need to set several crafting jobs to get a crown since the item produced by a crafting task is random with several possibilities. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:06, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Killing nobles ? ==

Is killing nobles dangerous ? (does it stop immigrations or something ?)

Because I've got a Count totally uncontrolable, who can't stop throwing tantrums in the middle of my fortress, which is somewhat tiresome... So, if I just can lock him into his bedroom and let him starve to death, it would be great, but I don't know if it won't cause more problems..

(Also, sorry for my bad english, I'm french)
[[User:Timst|Timst]] 05:40, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:Killing off your nobles only really has the penalties associated with killing any other dwarf - their friends and family will be upset, and you lose that dwarf's abilities. In the case of nobles a replacement will usually turn up with the next migrant wave, unless your fort no longer meets the requirements for that noble. You can, of course, kill the replacement too - with lesser repercussions as he won't have had time to make any friends yet.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:38, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::Ok, thanks :) I was afraid that the death of a count could induct a reaction of the mountainhomes or something like that... If the only reaction will be the one of the countess, it will be ok :) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 07:00, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:::In the future, killing off a noble will have repercussions, however, so don't depend on that behaviour forever. ;-)
:::''Req291, NOBLE DEATH, (Future): Killing off nobles needs to have serious consequences. Once the counties (see Core28) are in, there could be revolts from the village if the count is popular. Other nobles could have angry relatives. Losing your law enforcement nobles could lead to more tantrums and other acts in large fortresses. Nobles should all be upset by the death of the tax collector. When a noble is buried, other dwarves could be sealed in the tomb.''
:::--[[User:JT|JT]] 15:11, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::::This doesn't sound like it has much effect on a "kill early, kill often" approach — e.g. preparing their death room immediately upon their arrival, and luring them in via a profile-set lever pull job. The count won't be popular (at least in your fort) if nobody knows him, unless he's popular by reputation or something. Angry relatives? If they show up friendly but ready to tantrum, I draft / lure them into killing rooms; if they're hostile, I deal with them like a siege. Nobles all being upset by the tax collector means nothing if I've killed all the nobles. And it's not like I'm going to make tombs for them, either. Only the law enforcement one looks like an issue.

::::On the other hand, maybe that's the point — you're penalised if you just randomly kill nobles because you don't like them, but you're also allowed to run a "screw the nobility, we're a free communal fortress" game (or have a "kill the entire current regime, we want a revolution" event) so long as you actively enforce it. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:02, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

: Another issue that can pop up is killing your Baron/Count/Duke, their spouse will stick around and remain a noble even after the replacement and their spouse has shown up. On one fortress my count had 3 Countess Consorts, one was his wife and the other 2 were leftovers from the previous 2 counts. One Baron happened to be standing under a drawbridge as it came down (don't ask what a drawbridge was doing in his room, lets just say he wasn't going to get that rock crystal item he wanted) and his widow was promoted to Countess Consort when the new Count showed up to replace him a few seasons later. That Count was tending a farm when a squad of gobs beat the living tar out of him and his widow remained a Countess Consort even after the third noble arrived to replace the dead Count. They all still make demands/mandates and still require rooms/tombs and all that as before. [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 20:55, 18 January 2009 (EST)

== Selling Nobles ==
<tt>╔═╦═╗</tt> Unlock doors, assign lever to noble, order lever pulled. 
<tt>║ò┼^┼</tt> Wait for noble to stand on cage trap, lock both doors. 
<tt>╚═╩═╝</tt> Wait for noble to fall asleep, sell caged noble to elves. 
:Sorry for the crude drawing. My wiki format skills are weak. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 14:36, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:Eh... except for the small known bug where trying to haul an occupied cage to the trading depot results in whatever is caged being freed and the empty cage being brought in. But once they fix that bug, maybe. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:30, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

::I've been trying to sell my dwarves for ages, as a 'clean' approach to dealing with nobles and unwanted immigration. Sadly, they always seem to die of thirst first. If I let them out just once to drink, they die of hunger. Maybe if I let them out twice... but that's a lot of effort. Better to just let them die, unless they're very popular or something. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Selling to the Elves? That's too cruel, even for nobles! Don't you know that the Elves are '''Cannibals!?!''' --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 12:45 17 August 2009 (EST)
::::[ENTITY:FOREST]
:::::[CREATURE:ELF]
:::::[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]

::::::Actually, they're not cannibals. That would state that they would eat each other if they killed each other. This is only that they'll eat the dead that they kill themselves, and as killing each other in their society is not acceptable they won't eat each other, however, if the Sapient_other tag was set to acceptable they might end up eating each other if they die by any means. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 20:16, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

::::::Well, eating deceased of your own kind is still cannibalism. [[User:Kurokikaze|Kurokikaze]] 11:15, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

== Category? ==

I would do this myself if I knew how, but perhaps someone should make a noble category, with all the noble related articles (Unfortunate accident, mandate, types of nobles, etc) in it. I think it would be useful. [[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 20:53, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

==Nobles Working==

Actually, nobles not only gather harvest if you put all dwarves harvest on, but they also help demolishing constructed walls.=--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 00:53, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:Thanks, I'll add that to [[labor]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

==Arrival Requirements Verified==
Ok, I just had the Baroness, Hammerer, and Tax Collector arrive simultaneously with no other dwarves. I'm playing with a population cap of 50, and births (plus overflow of last immigration wave) has finally taken me up to exactly 80 dwarves. Despite the population cap, the Baroness, Tax Collector, and Hammerer arrived by themselves.

<s>Note that the Baroness Consort has not arrived, presumably because he takes the place of a normal dwarf during the immigration wave and can't be generated in violation of the population cap (whereas the other three can).</s> nevermind, he just showed up.

I should also note that I earlier had the King arrive as a peasant by himself despite being at the population cap. He also brought no consort nor advisor (although I've never had him arrive as a peasant before, so I don't know if that's normal).

I have not seen a philosopher as of yet.

As my fortress wealth is past 8 million at this point, I think its safe to say I can rule that out as a cause (having seen them at much lower wealth in default pop cap games).

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:30, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:I had the usual five nobles show up once in an immigration wave that took me over 80 dwarves, and promptly killed them, along with most of the immigrants. I subsequently set my population max to 50. My current population (minus nobles) is 69, yet those same nobles continue to show up every few seasons, suggesting that once you become a barony (80 pop, initial baron/ess arrival), they'll continue to show up again, regardless of your current status. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:10, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

==Noble demands==

I currently have a Baroness demanding "item in Dining Room". Any idea what could satisfy this? I tried a bismuth bronze statue, no luck. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 00:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

: This is a bug. Check # 000491 @ http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 00:47, 5 January 2009 (EST)

==Pretentious Arrangements==

Thoughts about a lesser's pretentious <whatever> arrangements seem to be a common source of noble unhappiness. (this is especially annoying for me as my mayor has an artifact in her bedroom raising it to Royal and my queen has no list of likes and dislikes, so I can't make her happy just by having the right booze) it would be interesting to know what exactly causes the difference between "upset" and "shattered", how to avoid it, and good ways to mitigate it's effects. I might have to do some research on my old fort to check this myself. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 13:58, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:Well, I suspect that the difference is related to the difference in room value, although I suppose that's stating the obvious. Another obvious solution would be to move the artefact into the higher-ranked Noble's room, assuming that's possible. Otherwise, I suppose the simplest (if not the easiest) way to mitigate its effects is to add as much value as possible to the Queen's room. As well as furniture, you can get surprising results with smoothings, engravings, and building an expensive floor over the engraved one if you have no qualms about exploiting such strangeness.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:07, 6 January 2009 (EST)
::I can confirm it's the difference between relative worth. I kept getting these annoying messages in my count + consort until I stuffed a platinum statue in their rooms. Obviously, this increased the worth of the room by 12K, easily dominating the 'lesser' quarters.

::It does require that there be a significant difference; having them at roughly equal worth will cause unhappy thoughts, which was my problem in my most recent fortress. I just housed all my nobles in the same residential stack as everyone else, adding extra room additions off the main design for offices, dining rooms, etc. The Count's room was a LITTLE better as his walls happened to be ore-bearing, but it wasn't enough to please him, hence the statue.--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:04, 7 January 2009 (EST)
:::Alright, I've put the artefact cabinet back in my mayor's room, and now will proceed to test this principle by making the Queen's rooms incredibly nice. I'm going to start by replacing all her furniture with gold and platinum, and move up from there.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 15:49, 7 January 2009 (EST)
::::You may have a long way to go. Artifact furniture can easily be 50 or 60K, whereas the most expensive single piece of furniture I've ever been able to produce is a masterwork platinum statue, which is 12K. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:36, 7 January 2009 (EST)

::::While you can't order artifacts dumped, you can apparently order them forbidden. So maybe you could forbid it and then move the creator's quarters elsewhere, leaving the original one vacant. Or maybe you could make them temporary quarters elsewhere, wait for them to move the artifact, then forbid it and move them back. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:22, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::I believe you are misenterpreting the way artifacts, and ownership of artifacts works.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:12, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

== Noble upgrade size. ==

I have a count still event though I have 148 dwarves. Could it be dependant on more than just the 140, or is it different now? [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 21:55, 11 February 2009 (EST)

: I'm at 188 dwarves still with a count not a duke. Could there be a dependancy on metal jobs? Other than melting down the goblin metal, I don't have any metal jobs going. [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 10:47, 14 February 2009 (EST)

I just had a peasant give birth to a baby. This put my population at 110, and I immediately got a message that my fortress had been made into a county. So, I will remove the "verify" tags from the count/count consort promotion info.--[[User:Scrotch|Scrotch]] 18:59, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

::I'm certain that exports are a requirement. Remember that only wealth you have created can count as exports, trading goblin items won't raise the number. If you can't offer it, it doesn't count. I had a fortress with 140+ dwarves that jumped up to a barony from nothing when I started exporting. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 20:03, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Failure to comply ==

I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet, but what happens if you don't give a noble the room he/she requires? I know they get unhappy thoughts, but is that all? Will they punish anyone? Or just start throwing tantrums? Next useless noble I get is sleeping in the barracks. On the floor.
:Unhappy thoughts? I don't think there is any repercusions. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:26, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::Unhappy nobles means more mandates, more demands and harsher sentences. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 20:04, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I just read this and checked my noble's happiness levels and justice levels, and even though they all seem ecstatic lately I have someone who's being jailed for 64 days, which I think is pretty extreme. I have been fulfilling hardly any of their mandates though, so perhaps jail time is related more to mandates than happiness?[[User:Gnavin|Gnavin]] 14:29, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

== Why Nobles Exist: ==

Nobles exist because Dwarven government is a feudal system; the fortress is just a semi-autonomous local government which must still answer to the King, and here's why:
::Long ago in the Age of Myth, the King's ancestor was legendary +5 in every military skill and took control of everything, killing all who resisted. His descendants are now <s>fat, lazy, whoremongering, good for nothing slobs</s> not as <s>cool</s> personally strong as he was, but they still technically own everything, including "your" fortress. The expedition that went to "colonize the King's land" did so with his permission, <s>usually given while drunk</s>. When your fortress becomes large enough that it can no longer <s>avoid notice</s> govern itself "properly", the King sends one of his <s>drinking mates</s> representatives to <s>screw up</s> "manage" the fortress. The nobles hold the authority of the King, and so there every <s>ridiculous</s> <s>stupid</s> <s>impossible</s> "reasonable" mandate "MUST" be obeyed. --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 12:37 17 August, 2009 (EST)

== Nobles: Now usefull ==

After long studies and several fortresses I finally found a way to use the nobles. Not as Farmers (that my legendary grower children would be...), but as a indeed valueable accuisition to your fortress.
The trick is simple. You give them nice houses. Outside, so their windows are not useless. And your nobles will be so grateful for this, that they will discover ambushes and in caes of sieges, they will hold up the attackers, so your military can gather and charge that vile force of darkness!

I could though never test this, because my current fort does not attract any nobles, what seems verry odd to me... (167 dorfs & 582253 wealth) I guess it's because I have barely any underground tiles discovered. (Neither having any artefacts) --[[User:Laranto|Laranto]] 23:24, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

40d:Noble

2009-11-26T20:53:54Z

Aykavil: /* Room Requirements */ married nobles

[[Noble]]s are <s>good for nothing piles of turd</s> [[dwarf|dwarves]] that <s>do pretty much nothing, except for demanding everything</s> have <s>"</s>special duties<s>"</s> in addition to or instead of the duties of normal dwarves. Some nobles also have various privileges that normal dwarves do not, and will demand certain accommodations, like a [[Room#Room_grades|better office]].

Settings specific to each noble can be set on the [[Nobles_Screen|Nobles & Administrators Screen]], accessible via the {{key|n}} key.

== Appointed Nobles ==

These are nobles that rise from your body of existing dwarves. With the exception of the [[Leader|Leader/Mayor]], you can appoint or replace any at any time through the {{k|n}}obles & administrators screen.

See main articles for more information in all cases.

=== [[Leader|Expedition Leader / Mayor]]===
:Listens to the complaints of other dwarves to make them happier. Uses [[social skill]]s. Needs an [[office]] in order to meet with outpost [[liaison]]s. It is not possible to reassign this post – at least while the original holder of the title remains alive. Your initial expedition leader is automatically chosen for you before the game [[embark|starts]] based largely on [[skill|administrative and social]] skills. A starting dwarf given just [[experience|Novice]] level in [[appraisal]] is usually selected for this job, and additional, similar skills almost ensure it 100%.

You can only appoint a new Expedition Leader if your original is slain. If you do not choose a new one, a random dwarf will be semi-randomly selected for the job after about half a season.
:* [[Leader|'''Mayor''']]
::Automatically promoted from expedition leader at 50 dwarves. Unlike the expedition leader, he requires decent housing and will make [[mandate]]s. The position of mayor is up for election every couple of years, but the existing mayor can be re-elected. This election is apparently influenced heavily by the number of [[friend]]s your dwarfs have at the time of the election, and can sometimes result in non-optimal selections (mayors with no appropriate skills whatsoever elected over well-qualified candidates), but the process is not completely understood.

=== [[Outpost broker]] ===
:Utilizes the [[appraiser]] skill and [[social skill]]s. Is the person you send to the [[depot]] to do your [[trading]]. Lets you see the imported/exported wealth of your fortress.
:: Outpost Broker changes title according to the status of your [[fortress]].

The Broker has no office requirements, also, trait's that allow for the broker to develop the necessary skills are in often times opposite of those that make a good Manager, it is smart to separate the two responsibilities.

''You want your brokers have low cooperation as it will enhance their intimidate skill, where you want your Manager to have high cooperation as it will enhance their pacifier skill. It's fine if your brokers to have low honesty because they develop the lair skill, where you want your Manager to have high honesty so they develop Flatter, however Flatterer appears to be useful in trading as well.''

=== [[Manager]] ===
:Utilizes the [[organizer]] skill. Allows the use of item build queues through the {{K|j}}obs -> {{K|m}}anager screen. Will need an office to do this (validating work orders) once your fortress has twenty dwarves.
:: Changes title according to the status of your [[fortress]].

=== [[Bookkeeper]] ===
:Utilizes the [[record keeper]] skill. Lets you see the stocks of your fortress. Needs to do occasional jobs in an office of their own if you want precise stock keeping: otherwise, stock numbers will only be precise to one significant figure (e.g., 7163 -> 7000, 7823 -> 8000).
::* Upgrades to [[treasurer]] at 100,000 fortress wealth.
::* Further upgrades to [[grand treasurer]] at 200,000 fortress wealth.
::* Further upgrades to [[hoardmaster]] at 300,000 fortress wealth.

''The same [[office]] can be used to both take stock and to conduct meetings, for both the bookkeeper and the manager, early it is fine to have these two responsibilities shared by the same dwarf, saving on real estate and decorating costs in the early game. Later though as your fort increases you will want to separate them so bookkeeping isn't taking your managers time.''

=== [[Sheriff]] ===
:You may choose a dwarf to become the Sheriff after your fortress reaches a population of 20.
::* [[Captain of the guard]]: Promoted from the sheriff once you reach 50 dwarves, along with the [[mayor]]. Activates [[fortress guard]].

== Immigrant Nobles ==

These nobles appear in [[immigration]] waves and can never be appointed or replaced* by the player.

:''(* unless the player arranges for an [[unfortunate accident]].)''

See main articles for more information in all cases.

=== [[King|King / Queen]] ===
Ruler of your parent [[civilization]] and upgrades your fort to Mountainhome. Will usually arrive with an entourage...

==== [[King consort|Royal Consort]] ====
Occasionally same gender as the King, although this has been fixed in the dev log.

==== [[Advisor]] ====
Arrives with the King's entourage.

=== [[Baron|Baron(ess)]] ===
Arrives at 80 dwarves and an unverified exported wealth.
* Activates the [[dwarven economy]].
* Upgrades to [[Count|Count(ess)]] at 110.
* Upgrade to [[Duke/Duchess]] at 140. {{verify}}

==== [[Baron Consort|Baron(ess) Consort]] ====
Arrives with the [[Baron|Baron(ess)]].
* Upgrades to [[Count Consort]] at 110.
* Upgrades to [[Duke/Duchess Consort]] at 140.

=== [[Duke|Duke / Duchess]] ===

==== [[Duke/Duchess Consort]] ====

=== [[Count]] ===

==== [[Count consort|Count/Countess Consort]] ====

=== [[Dungeon master]]===
Trains and cares for [[animals]] and performs miscellaneous metalsmithing tasks.

=== [[Hammerer]]===
He or she will enforce the law with a mighty [[hammer]]. Arrives either at 80 dwarves or with the Baron (equivalent). (Arrival trigger unknown - appears with the Count and the Countess generally.)

=== [[Philosopher]]===
Has no [[labor]] options turned on, but has no requirements and makes no [[mandate]]s. He is basically a [[child]] who is <s>"</s>wise<s>"</s>.

=== [[Tax collector]] ===
Arrives either at 80 dwarves or with the Baron (equivalent).

== Room Requirements ==

The nobles require various rooms assigned to them. Note that a [[Marriage|married]] dwarves share [[bedroom]]s and [[dining room]]s, which means that you will usually need only one of each for a noble/consort pair.

If you're running out of time and your noble is starting to get angry, [[How do I increase the value of a room quickly and easily|here are some tips on increasing the value of the room quickly]]. As a quick reference, here is a summary of those rooms:

{| border="1"
!Noble!!Quarters!!Dining Room!!Office!!Tomb
|- align="center"

!Advisor
|bgcolor="#ffff44"|Great Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff44"|Great Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffff44"|Throne Room||—
|- align="center"

!Baron(ess)
|bgcolor="#ffff88"|Decent Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff88"|Decent Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffff88"|Decent Office||bgcolor="#ffff88"|Tomb
|- align="center"

!Baron(ess)'s consort
|bgcolor="#ffff88"|Decent Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff88"|Decent Dining Room||—||bgcolor="#ffff88"|Tomb
|- align="center"

!Bookkeeper
|—||—||bgcolor="#ffffee"|Meager Office||—

|- align="center"
!Captain of the guard
|bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Quarters||bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Office||—

|- align="center"
!Count(ess)
|bgcolor="#ffff44"|Great Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff44"|Great Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffff44"|Throne Room||bgcolor="#ffff44"|Mausoleum

|- align="center"
!Count consort
|bgcolor="#ffff44"|Great Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff44"|Great Dining Room||—||bgcolor="#ffff44"|Mausoleum

|- align="center"
!Duke
|bgcolor="#ffff22"|Grand Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff22"|Grand Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffff22"|Opulent Throne Room||bgcolor="#ffff22"|Grand Mausoleum

|- align="center"
!Duke Consort
|bgcolor="#ffff22"|Grand Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff22"|Grand Dining Room||—||bgcolor="#ffff22"|Grand Mausoleum

|- align="center"
!Dungeon Master
|bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Quarters||bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Office||bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Burial Chamber

|- align="center"
!Hammerer
|bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Quarters||bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Dining Room||—||—

|- align="center"
!King/Queen
|bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Throne Room||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Mausoleum

|- align="center"
!King/Queen Consort
|bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Quarters||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Dining Room||—||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Mausoleum

|- align="center"
!Manager
|—||—||bgcolor="#ffffee"|Meager Office||—

|- align="center"
!Mayor
|bgcolor="#ffff88"|Decent Quarters||bgcolor="#ffff88"|Decent Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffff88"|Decent Office||—

|- align="center"
!Broker
|—||—||—||—

|- align="center"
!Sheriff
|bgcolor="#ffffcc"|Modest Quarters||bgcolor="#ffffcc"|Modest Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffffcc"|Modest Office||—

|- align="center"
!Tax Collector
|bgcolor="#ffffcc"|Modest Quarters||bgcolor="#ffffcc"|Modest Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffffaa"|Office||—
|}

=== Meager Offices ===
The easiest way to give dwarves a meager office is simply to assign them a single seat in your communal dining room, making the designated "office" 1-tile large.
[[Category:Nobles]]

40d:Marriage

2009-11-26T20:49:00Z

Aykavil: room sharing details

[[Dwarves]] will get married occasionally. It is unknown if Dwarves will involve in same-sex relationships, but it does not appear so. Dwarves must be "lovers" before becoming married, the current mechanism is unknown. Dwarves may celebrate marriages with a [[party]] if you have provided a [[room]] for them to do so in. They may also choose to forego any formal celebration. After marriage they will share start to sleep in the same [[bed]], share the same account (if the [[dwarven economy]] is in effect), and pop out [[children|babies]] like rabbits. Spouses share [[bedroom]]s, [[dining room]]s, [[statue garden]]s and [[zoo]]s, which means that whenever a room of that type is assigned to a dwarf, it is also assigned to that dwarf's spouse. However, spouses do not share [[office]]s nor [[tomb]]s.

In the Relationships screen ( {{k|v}} {{k|p}} {{k|z}} {{k|r}} ), '''Husband''' or '''Wife''' tops the list, coming above their deity.

Currently (v0.27.176.38c), dwarven marriage is not voided by death, which means that the spouse of a dwarf will continue to show up in the relations screen and that rooms owned by a married couple will still be listed as owned by both partners.
This also means dwarves do not remarry, or initiate new romantic relationships after being widowed.

New migrants to the [[fortress]] can already be married when they arrive. It has also been observed that dwarves (tend to?) only marry other dwarves who arrived at the fortress in the same [[immigration]] wave as themselves. Whether this is an absolute, and if so whether this is hard-coded, or a quirk, or a bug, is unclear.

----
See also:
:* [[Relationships]]

{{Expand Topic}}

[[Category:Dwarves]]

40d:Well

2009-11-11T07:55:35Z

Aykavil: grammar

'''Wells''' are structures that serve as [[water]] sources for your dwarves. A well can be an important feature of a fortress - wells are not absolutely necessary, but they provide so much that few forts stay without them if they can help it.

Wells provide an emergency drinking source in case the [[alcohol]] runs out (don't let that happen!). A well is a water source that (if constructed correctly) will not freeze in the coldest weather, and should last in hot. Because the water from a well is never seen as [[stagnant]], the dwarfs won't wait until they're thirsty and miserable to drink from a well should they need to.

Using a well provides that dwarf with a happy [[thought]], especially if you make the well with high-[[quality]] chains and buckets, or the [[building designer]] produces a high [[quality]] result. The unhappy [[thought]] that a dwarf gets from [[murky pool|murky]] or contaminated water will not occur if the dwarf drinks that very same water by way of a well. A well even allows dwarves to drink from [[Water#Salt_Water|salt water]] (though this may be a bug).

Badly [[wound]]ed dwarves will drink ''only'' water while recuperating, never [[booze]], so you better have a well or [[Zone#Water_Source|water zone]] ready for when anyone gets injured, and certainly before the first [[goblin]]s show up.

Using the well will take a very small amount of water from the water tile below (1/7 from that one tile), so it will eventually dry up if not replenished.

Also, dwarfs can (and ''will'') fish from a well if that [[labour]] is designated. This does not harm the well.

A well can be defined as a meeting area with the {{k|q}} key. Un-defining the meeting area will break up any party that is currently formed around a well, and it can immediately be re-defined if you wish.

==Building a well==
When constructing a well, it is important to consider placement, safety, the source of the water, and any [[water pressure]] to avoid flooding your fortress by accident. For a wider discussion of adding a well to your fortress, see the (recommended) [[well guide]].

Wells must have a clear vertical pathway to a water source, which can be an artificial channel, an [[aquifer]], a [[river]], a [[brook]], a [[lake]], or an artificial [[reservoir]]. It is easiest to draw water from underground sources, but above-ground sources can also be used so long as you construct the well's floor on the z-level above the water. The water in the square directly below the well must be at least 3/7 deep.[[Image:Well_illustration.png|right|thumb|154px|Wells must be built over the water, though they can be many levels higher than the water.]]
To build a well you will need the following components:
:* a [[block]]
:* a [[bucket]]
:* a [[restraint|chain or rope]]
:* a [[mechanism]]
:* ...and an area over open water.

To place a well, press the {{k|b}}, {{k|l}} keys. That will take you through the various components, and you can choose specifically from among the parts you have available in each category. The well must be designated over an open area down to water - you cannot have a [[staircase]], [[ramp]], [[grate]] or [[floor bars]] below it.

It requires a dwarf with the [[architecture]] [[labour]] designated to design, and then a [[mason]] to finish the construction. Because it's designed, high-value materials can be multiplied by a high-quality effort on the part of either or both the steps involved, and can result in an extremely valuable piece of architecture for your fortress. A deep well shaft contributes to the building quality{{verify}}.

----

'''See also:'''
:* [[Well guide|Well Guide]]

{{Water FAQ}}
[[Category:Buildings]]

Bizmuth bronze

2009-10-22T14:53:00Z

Aykavil: did this right

#REDIRECT [[Bismuth bronze]]

40d Talk:Backpack

2009-10-21T11:23:00Z

Aykavil: /* Sparring wrestlers make carrying backpacks useless */

For some reason, I think that this page should exist. --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 19:26, 23 November 2007 (EST)

== Backpacks in hand? ==

One of my axedwarves is holding her backpack in her right hand along with an axe. Is this going to interfere with her axe wielding? It's hard to tell. I guess I'll wait to see if she gains axe experience. So far she's just a dabbing. I tried shaking it loose by turning rations on and off for that squad, but no good. --[[User:Schwern|Schwern]] 21:34, 27 December 2008 (EST)
:If shes wielding an axe then it shouldn't interfere, you can mark the backpack for dumping and someone will come along and remove it if need be. She likely grabbed the backpack off a sparring partner. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 08:49, 18 February 2009 (EST)

== Material? ==

Adamantine backpacks.. Is there any benefit? --[[User:Destoo|Destoo]] 00:03, 18 February 2009 (EST)
:Technically there's a benefit in that the backpacks would be really, really light. But that's about all I can think of, and nowhere near being worth the armor and weapons you'd miss out on. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:51, 18 February 2009 (EST)

== Sparring wrestlers make carrying backpacks useless ==

My wrestlers will tear off each other's backpacks while sparring, which makes telling them to carry food around useless. This is especially annoying because the food in the backpacks rots on the ground and subjects all my military to constant miasma. Is there any way to fix this, or do you simply have to not let wrestlers carry backpacks? --[[User:King of the Internet|King of the Internet]] 21:32, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

: Not letting wrestlers carry backpacks is not sufficient, because wrestlers will normally spar with non-wrestlers. The easiest solution is to only allow marksdwarves to carry backpacks.--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 11:23, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Aykavil

2009-10-16T20:13:41Z

Aykavil: cleanup

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<div align=center><div style="width: 28em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.5em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]''</div></div> [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:33, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Noble

2009-10-16T20:08:01Z

Aykavil: /* Room requirements */

== Nobles affected by Reclaiming? ==

My current fortress is a reclaimed one, due to a fire that got into one of my guardtowers' food storage. In the old fortress, I had managed to get a Baron, who was soon skipping right up to Duke and Incoming king after a couple of immigrants. Well, after reclaiming, I proceeded as normal, except, even though my value is still incredibly high from the fortress (1 million+ created wealth, and 400k exported, now), I recieved a count within it's specified area of requirement, but not the Baron before. Even still, My Count does not seem to be upgrading to Duke anytime soon, seeing as I have 188 dwarves, now. Anyone have any ideas, now? [[User:Jwguy|Jwguy]] 12:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

== Noble Additions and Requirements ==

Added the dungeon keeper noble. He just showed up at my fort in year 1053. --[[Idles]]

I'm "fixing" the change, "16:59, 31 October 2007 Lightning4 (Talk | contribs) (1,934 bytes) (→Appointments - Isn't called bookkeeper, at least when the fortress is new.)", because in my forts it IS called bookkeeper when the fortress starts. Other edits have backed me up, suspect editor was confused--Please discuss this here? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 15:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I apologize, I was indeed incorrect. You do start with a Bookkeeper, which in very short order can be upgraded to a Treasurer. Unsure of requirements, possibly only requires 20 dwarves like the sheriff. My fortress has one and I haven't even done anything besides changed who had bookkeeping and set it to higher priority (did not build study yet). That's probably what got me confused since the bookkeeper upgrades very quickly. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 18:11, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::Yeah, 20 dwarves sounds accurate enough to put in there. He didn't turn when I had only 17. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 18:14, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

"Your original expedition leader will be the fourth dwarf down in the starting screen(the one in the middle)." This does not seem to hold true; I have a newly-developed habit of making the last dwarf on the screen (used to be my designated hauler-peasant) into the administrator, with all the social skills for filling the four starter noble roles. He gets auto-assigned to all four administrative positions; I'm thinking that instead of being fixed or random, the starting assignment is based on social skills. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 00:29, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

I had a Philosopher show up last night. I'm unsure of the requirement to get him; the only really notable thing that had happened was I got over 100 dwarves. I'm adding him to the list of Nobles, though, since I can confirm he still exists in the new version. I also divided the page structure between Appointed and Immigrant nobles, since the current header was misleading (Dungeon Master and Philosopher cannot be appointed). --[[User:Zurai|Zurai]] 20:55, 10 November 2007 (EST)

I had the king show up tonight. "The King arrives, dressed as a peasant." I have no idea what the requirements were. I missed the 1051 and 1052 dwarf caravans due to prolonged sieges, and had no immigrants those years. 1053 I had the caravan; a season later a wave of immigration brought my total dwarves up to 37. In the spring the king arrived, along with enough others to bring the population to 63. At that time I was notified that the Captain of the Guard position was available. Only thing I can think is that I hit adamantine during the siege years, and mistakenly built a number of ridiculously valuable adamantine objects. (Door, Coffin, etc.) This has raised my fortress value to 1.3 million. Is 1 million value perhaps the trigger? I have no coins, and no nobles other than the starting 4 positions. I did not appoint a sheriff. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:15, 15 November 2007 (EST)
:In the last version, hitting adamantine without proper requirement for the king triggered the reaction of having the king arrive dressed as a paysant. Maybe it's the same here. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 04:20, 15 November 2007 (EST)
== What determines expedition leader? ==

There are a number of situations to test out:
* No social skills on any dwarves
** ''Probably random, possibly based on the Dwarf's thoughts and preferences''
* Majority of social skills on one dwarf (various positions in start order)
** ''Test case 1: only one dwarf has social skills - gives that dwarf as leader and all positions''
* Social skills spread between multiple dwarves
** Is there any weight on which skill determines the leader?
--[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 01:25, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Is the first point certain? In my current fortress, I didn't assign any social skills to any dwarf, and I'm pretty certain that the dwarf that ended up expedition leader was the seventh in the list. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 02:28, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::In my current fort I assigned no social skills and the first dwarf in the list, one of my miners, is the expedition leader. --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:40, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:::Might be randomised then, I started three new fortresses for the test and each time it was the same so I made an assumption. Obviously this isn't the case can you two check what thoughts/prefs you have for those so we can look for some leadership criteria. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 08:10, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::::It's almost always been the first dwarf for me (assuming no one had leadership skills), but I could have sworn one time it assigned someone else. Maybe it defaults to the first dwarf on the list but can sometimes choose someone else under certain conditions. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 22:29, 10 November 2007 (EST)
:::::Perhaps the first dwarf didn't get it because of negative preferences? Some dwarves have a line in their thoughts/prefs that reads something like "X prefers to let others take leadership roles". [[User:Tocky|Tocky]] 11:04, 11 November 2007 (EST)

==Room requirements==
Maybe something about the nobles requiring better rooms and how to build them? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:15, 4 November 2007 (EST)
:Found it in [[room]]s, adding a link. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:34, 4 November 2007 (EST)

The [[How do I increase the value of a room quickly and easily]] page seems to be a pretty helpful page, but so far what links to it may not be much help when someone is in a pinch with their nobles ([[Door]], [[Room]], [[Furniture]] and the [[Frequently Asked Questions]]). After all, I assume that page exists for that constant problem with nobles where your new Duke requests a "Grand" dining room and DAMMIT, the best you can do is a "Decent" dining room and that sweet, kick-ass, dolomite dining table with the chrysoberyls the image of a dwarf striking down a goblin isn't ready yet because your legendary Gem Setter is "Attending Party". So perhaps a link on the Nobles page should also exist? [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 15:07, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

:New pages are largely useless without links - feel free! If you see a need, then, by definition, there is one.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:11, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

The room requirement for consorts is not clear. Seeing that they are married, don't they share a single bedroom with their spouse? Is this an exception to the law of marriage? The same questions hold for dining rooms and tombs. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 09:18, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

:It's perfectly clear. Lovers like to have their own rooms, even if they never use them. (When you start dating, you'll understand.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:04, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

:: Except that consorts are not ''dating'', they are [[Marriage|''married'']]. (When you are married, you'll understand.) --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:58, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

:::You're married, and you don't wish you had your own room sometimes? Let me put it this way - maybe the DF royals don't know about this "law of marriage" (and law of dining, and law of dying) that you adhere to. Or, maybe you've just never been dwarven royalty. If it's still not clear, then just accept that.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 15:02, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

::::Surely, you've noticed that you are contradicting what's currently written on the [[Marriage]] page. So if you're positive about the game mechanics, you should update that page. If you're not positive, that's when the ''still not clear'' kicks in. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 07:32, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

It seems that rhetorical questions and pointed hints are ineffective, so here is how to read the chart; we'll use the King/Queen and Consort as our example:

{| border="1"
!Noble!!Quarters!!Dining Room!!Office!!Tomb
|- align="center"

|- align="center"
!King
|bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Throne Room||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Mausoleum

|- align="center"
!King/Queen Consort
|bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Quarters||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Dining Room||—||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Mausoleum

|}

The position under "Noble" is the noble the chart is referring to. The listing under "Quarters" are the quarters that ''that dwarf'' wants, the listing under "Dining Room" is the dining room that ''that dwarf'' wants, and so on. There is nothing to imply that one noble will be happy with a related noble's rooms - a Baron doesn't use a King's Throne Room or Dining Hall, an Advisor doesn't use the King's Office, and neither does ''any other noble''. So, both a King and his consort want'' their own'' Royal Bedroom, Royal Dining Room, and Royal Mausoleum, and in addition the King wants a Royal Throne Room for his Office. You can share rooms between royals, but that reduces the perceived value significantly. I can find no reference to a "Law of Marriage" on the page - any assumptions not specifically listed or addressed in this chart are yours alone. If this is ''still not clear'', the requirements for individual nobles are clearly listed in their individual article pages: '''[[king]]''' and '''[[King consort|royal consort]]'''. If that's ''still not clear'', I'd suggest asking in the forums, because this format doesn't have time or space to serve your special needs.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:50, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

: When you assign a bed to a [[Marriage|married]] dwarf, its automatically also assigned to his/her spouse. This is not a case of overlapping rooms, but of a single room belonging to two different dwarves. It's easy to see this by yourself by taking a look at your married dwarves and their bedroom arrangements.--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 20:08, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

== Not 100? ==

I just received migrants. My population went from 76 to 100, and my settlement went from a village to a town. No nobles arrived with the migrants. [[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:14, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:Still a town at 108
:Another wave, and we're a city at 111 (migrants still incoming)
::My population went from 101 to 126 in one wave. A Baroness arrived at the same time and turned my settlement into a Barony. Shortly afterwards, my settlement turned into a County (125+ dwarves?). Then Baroness upgraded into a Countess. Baron consort upgraded to a Count Consort.--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 16:49, 19 November 2007 (EST)
::Next immigration wave, my pop hit 138. Nothing happens. Then next immigration wave, my pop hits 141, the Countess upgrades to Duchess and the Count Consort upgrades to Duke Consort. Also, "Incoming King" is the top line on the Nobles screen. When you select it, it shows you what you need to achieve in terms of 1. architecture value (15000) 2. road value (5000) and 3. offerings value. (5000). I'm not sure what criteria triggers the King as it happened at the same time as my Duchess. I did just hit 200k exported wealth. Conincedence? --[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 10:27, 20 November 2007 (EST)
::Another wave, jumped to 161 pop, and some more nobles, a Duke and his Duke Consort. Now I have both a Duke and Duchess!--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 14:06, 20 November 2007 (EST)
:I was made a city and a barony at 110, and promoted to county almost immediately after. No new immigration happened, and I hadn't reached the 120 mark yet. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 16:27, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:The last immigration wave brought me from 98 to a total of 124 including baron/consort, tax collector and hammerer. It is now a City and a Barony. I'll watch out if it changes on the first immigrant from the next wave.I currently have over 500k created wealth and 17000 exported.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:05, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:One child is born and now my total population is 125. Still a City and a Barony.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:23, 25 November 2007 (EST)
:My fortress was upgraded to County when the caravan left the map and my exported wealth leaped from 17k to 26k. The trigger for the County must be either 20k or 25k exported wealth. --[[User:Another|Another]] 12:47, 25 November 2007 (EST)
::Baron arrived during an immigration wave going from 88 to 112 dwarves, and upgraded to a Count not long after arrival but ''not'' immediately either (perhaps as the population went over 100?). Exported wealth was probably around 50k at the time. Now at 119 (and 80k exported) and not yet a Duke. Looks like there's a combination of factors involved. [[User:Cim|Cim]] 11:10, 14 December 2007 (EST)
:Upgrade of the fortress to Duchy was at exactly 140th dwarf from an immigration wave. "The Incoming King" included. Total created wealth - 950k, total exported - 30k.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:37, 1 December 2007 (EST)
: My Baron arrived in the immigration wave that took me over 100 (I had peaked at 96 previously) but this was also the season where I crossed the 50,000 threshold on exported wealth. I actually went from 48,000 to 62,000 over the course of the year, and the baron arrived in the Spring, I did have an immigration wave after crossing 50,000 in the fall. Almost immediately after my baron arrived, he was promoted to count. My population is 119. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 16:41, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:At exported wealth 45k, my Baron promoted to Count at the 110th immigrant. (Baron arrived in the first immigration wave after getting 80 population, can't remember what exported wealth was then) [[User:Cim|Cim]] 20:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:Population at 93 no Baron. Next wave - first person to arrive is a Countess, with this wave population went to 114. (So, had no Baron at all) --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:39, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Verified about 140 limit for Duke. My Wrestler have given birth to a boy, the populationd got to 140, and the next message is about the fortress becoming a capital of Duchy. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:10, 24 January 2008 (EST)

== Queen As Peasant ==

I had dug out some raw adamantine, not done anything with it, and I got a notification that 'Your ruler has arrived disguised as a peasant.' At the same time, my Dungeon Master arrived. I don't have an announcement in the log about the Queen, but I do about the DM. I'm treating her like it's legit, what's the deal?

:Your ruler has heard of the discovery of adamantine, and hurried to yuor fort to oversee the digging. She turned up "disguised as a peasant" because your fort doesn't meet the regular requirements for attracting the monarch and moving to your site officially would be embarassing (in roleplaying/story terms of course). She's perfectly legit, just wasn't attracted in the "conventional" sense by having the largest, wealthiest fort in the civilisation you belong to.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:42, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Baron mandates "crowns"? ==

I just got a baron, and the first thing he mandates is two crowns. So i type Crown into the jobs/manager list. nothing. So I type crown in dwarf wiki. Nothing. Can anyone help before I have to drop this noble into a pit to keep him from locking up my crafters?
:Info about specific crafts isn't present in the new wiki, but a crown is in fact a "craft" item. [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Craftsdwarf%27s_Workshop#Crafts You can see the old wiki info about crafts here]. You'll probably need to set several crafting jobs to get a crown since the item produced by a crafting task is random with several possibilities. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:06, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Killing nobles ? ==

Is killing nobles dangerous ? (does it stop immigrations or something ?)

Because I've got a Count totally uncontrolable, who can't stop throwing tantrums in the middle of my fortress, which is somewhat tiresome... So, if I just can lock him into his bedroom and let him starve to death, it would be great, but I don't know if it won't cause more problems..

(Also, sorry for my bad english, I'm french)
[[User:Timst|Timst]] 05:40, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:Killing off your nobles only really has the penalties associated with killing any other dwarf - their friends and family will be upset, and you lose that dwarf's abilities. In the case of nobles a replacement will usually turn up with the next migrant wave, unless your fort no longer meets the requirements for that noble. You can, of course, kill the replacement too - with lesser repercussions as he won't have had time to make any friends yet.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:38, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::Ok, thanks :) I was afraid that the death of a count could induct a reaction of the mountainhomes or something like that... If the only reaction will be the one of the countess, it will be ok :) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 07:00, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:::In the future, killing off a noble will have repercussions, however, so don't depend on that behaviour forever. ;-)
:::''Req291, NOBLE DEATH, (Future): Killing off nobles needs to have serious consequences. Once the counties (see Core28) are in, there could be revolts from the village if the count is popular. Other nobles could have angry relatives. Losing your law enforcement nobles could lead to more tantrums and other acts in large fortresses. Nobles should all be upset by the death of the tax collector. When a noble is buried, other dwarves could be sealed in the tomb.''
:::--[[User:JT|JT]] 15:11, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::::This doesn't sound like it has much effect on a "kill early, kill often" approach — e.g. preparing their death room immediately upon their arrival, and luring them in via a profile-set lever pull job. The count won't be popular (at least in your fort) if nobody knows him, unless he's popular by reputation or something. Angry relatives? If they show up friendly but ready to tantrum, I draft / lure them into killing rooms; if they're hostile, I deal with them like a siege. Nobles all being upset by the tax collector means nothing if I've killed all the nobles. And it's not like I'm going to make tombs for them, either. Only the law enforcement one looks like an issue.

::::On the other hand, maybe that's the point — you're penalised if you just randomly kill nobles because you don't like them, but you're also allowed to run a "screw the nobility, we're a free communal fortress" game (or have a "kill the entire current regime, we want a revolution" event) so long as you actively enforce it. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:02, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

: Another issue that can pop up is killing your Baron/Count/Duke, their spouse will stick around and remain a noble even after the replacement and their spouse has shown up. On one fortress my count had 3 Countess Consorts, one was his wife and the other 2 were leftovers from the previous 2 counts. One Baron happened to be standing under a drawbridge as it came down (don't ask what a drawbridge was doing in his room, lets just say he wasn't going to get that rock crystal item he wanted) and his widow was promoted to Countess Consort when the new Count showed up to replace him a few seasons later. That Count was tending a farm when a squad of gobs beat the living tar out of him and his widow remained a Countess Consort even after the third noble arrived to replace the dead Count. They all still make demands/mandates and still require rooms/tombs and all that as before. [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 20:55, 18 January 2009 (EST)

== Selling Nobles ==
<tt>╔═╦═╗</tt> Unlock doors, assign lever to noble, order lever pulled. 
<tt>║ò┼^┼</tt> Wait for noble to stand on cage trap, lock both doors. 
<tt>╚═╩═╝</tt> Wait for noble to fall asleep, sell caged noble to elves. 
:Sorry for the crude drawing. My wiki format skills are weak. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 14:36, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:Eh... except for the small known bug where trying to haul an occupied cage to the trading depot results in whatever is caged being freed and the empty cage being brought in. But once they fix that bug, maybe. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:30, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

::I've been trying to sell my dwarves for ages, as a 'clean' approach to dealing with nobles and unwanted immigration. Sadly, they always seem to die of thirst first. If I let them out just once to drink, they die of hunger. Maybe if I let them out twice... but that's a lot of effort. Better to just let them die, unless they're very popular or something. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Selling to the Elves? That's too cruel, even for nobles! Don't you know that the Elves are '''Cannibals!?!''' --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 12:45 17 August 2009 (EST)
::::[ENTITY:FOREST]
:::::[CREATURE:ELF]
:::::[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]

::::::Actually, they're not cannibals. That would state that they would eat each other if they killed each other. This is only that they'll eat the dead that they kill themselves, and as killing each other in their society is not acceptable they won't eat each other, however, if the Sapient_other tag was set to acceptable they might end up eating each other if they die by any means. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 20:16, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

::::::Well, eating deceased of your own kind is still cannibalism. [[User:Kurokikaze|Kurokikaze]] 11:15, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

== Category? ==

I would do this myself if I knew how, but perhaps someone should make a noble category, with all the noble related articles (Unfortunate accident, mandate, types of nobles, etc) in it. I think it would be useful. [[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 20:53, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

==Nobles Working==

Actually, nobles not only gather harvest if you put all dwarves harvest on, but they also help demolishing constructed walls.=--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 00:53, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:Thanks, I'll add that to [[labor]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

==Arrival Requirements Verified==
Ok, I just had the Baroness, Hammerer, and Tax Collector arrive simultaneously with no other dwarves. I'm playing with a population cap of 50, and births (plus overflow of last immigration wave) has finally taken me up to exactly 80 dwarves. Despite the population cap, the Baroness, Tax Collector, and Hammerer arrived by themselves.

<s>Note that the Baroness Consort has not arrived, presumably because he takes the place of a normal dwarf during the immigration wave and can't be generated in violation of the population cap (whereas the other three can).</s> nevermind, he just showed up.

I should also note that I earlier had the King arrive as a peasant by himself despite being at the population cap. He also brought no consort nor advisor (although I've never had him arrive as a peasant before, so I don't know if that's normal).

I have not seen a philosopher as of yet.

As my fortress wealth is past 8 million at this point, I think its safe to say I can rule that out as a cause (having seen them at much lower wealth in default pop cap games).

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:30, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:I had the usual five nobles show up once in an immigration wave that took me over 80 dwarves, and promptly killed them, along with most of the immigrants. I subsequently set my population max to 50. My current population (minus nobles) is 69, yet those same nobles continue to show up every few seasons, suggesting that once you become a barony (80 pop, initial baron/ess arrival), they'll continue to show up again, regardless of your current status. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:10, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

==Noble demands==

I currently have a Baroness demanding "item in Dining Room". Any idea what could satisfy this? I tried a bismuth bronze statue, no luck. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 00:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

: This is a bug. Check # 000491 @ http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 00:47, 5 January 2009 (EST)

==Pretentious Arrangements==

Thoughts about a lesser's pretentious <whatever> arrangements seem to be a common source of noble unhappiness. (this is especially annoying for me as my mayor has an artifact in her bedroom raising it to Royal and my queen has no list of likes and dislikes, so I can't make her happy just by having the right booze) it would be interesting to know what exactly causes the difference between "upset" and "shattered", how to avoid it, and good ways to mitigate it's effects. I might have to do some research on my old fort to check this myself. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 13:58, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:Well, I suspect that the difference is related to the difference in room value, although I suppose that's stating the obvious. Another obvious solution would be to move the artefact into the higher-ranked Noble's room, assuming that's possible. Otherwise, I suppose the simplest (if not the easiest) way to mitigate its effects is to add as much value as possible to the Queen's room. As well as furniture, you can get surprising results with smoothings, engravings, and building an expensive floor over the engraved one if you have no qualms about exploiting such strangeness.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:07, 6 January 2009 (EST)
::I can confirm it's the difference between relative worth. I kept getting these annoying messages in my count + consort until I stuffed a platinum statue in their rooms. Obviously, this increased the worth of the room by 12K, easily dominating the 'lesser' quarters.

::It does require that there be a significant difference; having them at roughly equal worth will cause unhappy thoughts, which was my problem in my most recent fortress. I just housed all my nobles in the same residential stack as everyone else, adding extra room additions off the main design for offices, dining rooms, etc. The Count's room was a LITTLE better as his walls happened to be ore-bearing, but it wasn't enough to please him, hence the statue.--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:04, 7 January 2009 (EST)
:::Alright, I've put the artefact cabinet back in my mayor's room, and now will proceed to test this principle by making the Queen's rooms incredibly nice. I'm going to start by replacing all her furniture with gold and platinum, and move up from there.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 15:49, 7 January 2009 (EST)
::::You may have a long way to go. Artifact furniture can easily be 50 or 60K, whereas the most expensive single piece of furniture I've ever been able to produce is a masterwork platinum statue, which is 12K. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:36, 7 January 2009 (EST)

::::While you can't order artifacts dumped, you can apparently order them forbidden. So maybe you could forbid it and then move the creator's quarters elsewhere, leaving the original one vacant. Or maybe you could make them temporary quarters elsewhere, wait for them to move the artifact, then forbid it and move them back. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:22, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::I believe you are misenterpreting the way artifacts, and ownership of artifacts works.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:12, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

== Noble upgrade size. ==

I have a count still event though I have 148 dwarves. Could it be dependant on more than just the 140, or is it different now? [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 21:55, 11 February 2009 (EST)

: I'm at 188 dwarves still with a count not a duke. Could there be a dependancy on metal jobs? Other than melting down the goblin metal, I don't have any metal jobs going. [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 10:47, 14 February 2009 (EST)

I just had a peasant give birth to a baby. This put my population at 110, and I immediately got a message that my fortress had been made into a county. So, I will remove the "verify" tags from the count/count consort promotion info.--[[User:Scrotch|Scrotch]] 18:59, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

::I'm certain that exports are a requirement. Remember that only wealth you have created can count as exports, trading goblin items won't raise the number. If you can't offer it, it doesn't count. I had a fortress with 140+ dwarves that jumped up to a barony from nothing when I started exporting. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 20:03, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Failure to comply ==

I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet, but what happens if you don't give a noble the room he/she requires? I know they get unhappy thoughts, but is that all? Will they punish anyone? Or just start throwing tantrums? Next useless noble I get is sleeping in the barracks. On the floor.
:Unhappy thoughts? I don't think there is any repercusions. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:26, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::Unhappy nobles means more mandates, more demands and harsher sentences. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 20:04, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I just read this and checked my noble's happiness levels and justice levels, and even though they all seem ecstatic lately I have someone who's being jailed for 64 days, which I think is pretty extreme. I have been fulfilling hardly any of their mandates though, so perhaps jail time is related more to mandates than happiness?[[User:Gnavin|Gnavin]] 14:29, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

== Why Nobles Exist: ==

Nobles exist because Dwarven government is a feudal system; the fortress is just a semi-autonomous local government which must still answer to the King, and here's why:
::Long ago in the Age of Myth, the King's ancestor was legendary +5 in every military skill and took control of everything, killing all who resisted. His descendants are now <s>fat, lazy, whoremongering, good for nothing slobs</s> not as <s>cool</s> personally strong as he was, but they still technically own everything, including "your" fortress. The expedition that went to "colonize the King's land" did so with his permission, <s>usually given while drunk</s>. When your fortress becomes large enough that it can no longer <s>avoid notice</s> govern itself "properly", the King sends one of his <s>drinking mates</s> representatives to <s>screw up</s> "manage" the fortress. The nobles hold the authority of the King, and so there every <s>ridiculous</s> <s>stupid</s> <s>impossible</s> "reasonable" mandate "MUST" be obeyed. --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 12:37 17 August, 2009 (EST)

User talk:Albedo

2009-10-16T07:45:50Z

Aykavil: /* Room requirements (Noble Discusion Page) */ typo

== Aluminum in copper ==

I have definitely seen aluminum inside a copper vein. It was freakin amazing. Also found 3 magnetite flippin huge clusters, each as big as my fort, 3 lignite veins, 2 microcline (bleagh) big groups, gold and silver vein, 1 hematite vein. It was great. More iron than I know what to do with. But totally aluminum in copper. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:26, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Stone articles ==

The articles on the various types of [[stone]] are based entirely on data taken from the game raws. It's possible the raw data has changed since the article was written, but observation alone is not good enough when we have that kind of inside info. If you see some sort of weird anomaly (like veins of aluminum), then Toady would most likely appreciate a bug report about that. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:28, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
:not veins of aluminum. Aluminum adjacent to veins. I have seen it in hematite, and copper. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:05, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

::Could someone point me to where the discussions are on how the articles should be set up? Sorry. I just... I'm being impulsive and driven and stuff and I want to know so I can /do/ stuff, and... you know, stuff. With stuff in it. I'm clearer after sleep, I promise. (Don't believe me, I'm always ambiguous, though rarely by intent.) --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 08:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::NM. Found it. Duh... Trust me, sleep ''is'' my friend. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

== (response) ==

But ''is'' it an anomaly? I'm not sure how to read the RAW's at that level. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

::Both are IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE, so, depending upon how the raws are acted upon, there are several ways this could happen...
:::1) The layer tiles are replaced first with veins(copper), and then small clusters (aluminum). Veins sometimes leave pockets of the layer stone incased, when the vein splits and then reconnects. I've seen it a few times, but I wouldn't call it common. The small cluster that would have been aluminum if the copper weren't there covers part or all of the area within the pocket. The rest of area of the small cluster is ignored, since the aluminum raws do not mention copper. (The way platinum mentions magnetite, for example).
:::2) The layer tiles are replaced first with the small clusters (aluminum) and then the veins (copper)... the copper vein just happens to meander around the pre-existing aluminum.
:::3) It does several iterations of whatever order it does, making both options 1 and 2 possible, potentially simultaniously (though not in the same tile, obviously).
:::4) Something completely different I have no clue about. I could make some stabs at things that could have caused that result, but they would all be both difficult and clunky, both in the design and in the implimentation.
:::5) It glitched. It's a computer. It happens all the time.
::Was that ''completely'' useless, or just mostly so? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC) (Poking around at modding is helping me learn to read RAW)

==Trader==

If the Appraiser skill is the highest skill you have, isn't the profession "trader"? I know I've seen the trader profession before. Below is what I think the skill/professions are.

Appraiser -> Trader 
Building designer -> Architect 
Organizer -> Administrator 
Record keeper ->Clerk 

I ''think'' that you are correct in that the overall skill (when you have two or more skills close in skill level) is also adminstrator. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Just read your log - I notice you build walls around the pipe. Have you considered a channel around the pit? Same effect, but you don't have to carry stone.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 21:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

:Fixed Trader - my bad. Read the Skill discussion page - that group of skills is not at all clear.

:I don't intend to go near the imps - the wall will create an AG enclosure above my dining hall/kitchen area, for AG crops, statue garden, private water and fishing area, etc etc. (More extensive answers in Kwieland's talk page) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:15, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

== fuel ==
While it is true that I moved the page to "Refined coal", the page I moved it from was "Refined Coal". The naming convention you were asking about is to only capitalize the first letter, since wiki links are case sensitive on all letters except the first. I think the original name of the article was "Refined Coal".

As for the origin of the term, it appears in the cancellation message if you assign a fuel-requiring task when you have no fuel. If this message no longer shows up, I have no qualms about retiring the term. However, if it still does then "refined coal" is a more suitable name than "fuel" since only "refined coal" appears in-game. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:I agree that the confusion needs to be cleared up, but I don't think separating [[fuel]] and [[refined coal]] into separate articles will help since they are just words for the same thing. I think that the best solution would be a short disambiguation at the top of the [[refined coal]] page. As long as all the terms redirect to that page anyone interested in any of them will end up seeing it. As for the title, we should definitely prefer an in-game term over a forum-supplied term. Everyone who uses the wiki plays the game, but not everyone uses the forum.

:The article as-is contains all the information pertaining to the naming issue, but if you think it's confusing, the page organization may be to blame. Perhaps information pertaining to names and categories could be consolidated at the top. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

::There is no such thing as "fuel coal". The terms are "refined coal" and "coal fuel". [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:::I know, I know! And I find I can't shake that term! (esp when tired). Not sure where used it this time, but it's like Pres. Bush saying "nucular arsenal". Arrrggghhhh!!!! --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:52, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

== Olivine ==

See [[Talk:Olivine]] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

==That revealed vein comment of Zchris13==
I totally understand why you undid that, but it was sort of funny. And I can accomplish that without using a third party utility. I can create down stairs on the level above, which reveals the tile. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:57, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== armorsmith page - re quality of artifact armor ==

In my head, I thought artifact armour & weapons were better than masterwork too, but that's not what the [[Item quality]] page says:

:☼Item Name☼ Masterful ×12 ×2.0
:Unique name Artifact ×120 ×2.0

And we should assume that's accurate, neh?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:nobody knows. It is a mystery!!!! Ohhhh... I really don't know what to believe. Toady has dropped contradicting hints, people report contradicting data, and nobody really knows what is going on. I say we just put a maybe in there. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 02:00, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

== Sorting table on [[Metal]] page by color ==

The issue is that the only plaintext in the color column is "*", which is hard to sort by. If we want it to be sortable we need the plaintext of each entry to not be identical. A pretty way to pull this off isn't coming to mind, but that's the goal. Nice work on the table, by the way. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:22, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:Maybe the first letter of the color name, in the same color as the background. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:15, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

::Or change the tile entirely - the more I look at it, not sure what the whole "background color" achieves. But as I understand it the use of the icon (the asterisk) representing the ore is the problem. May take some rethinking.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:Every metal has a unique foreground color and a unique background color. On items like doors, you get to see both. This is actually why doors are included in the corners of the diagram on the assorted metal pages (eg: [[copper]]) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
::: <Nods> Got it. Is there a way to "pipe" the icon in, and use some numerical representation to sort? Meh, you've probably thought of that. Or piping the icon in??? Or using a subtly diff icon? Sorting by color is, admittedly, perhaps the least of our concerns with that table. Maybe remove the "sortable" part from the template for now?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:24, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
:What is it we are sorting here? --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
:: Metal page table (fixed in sub-title above)
HA! fixed. me r hte supra jeeeenius! Completely by accident, natch. Tried adding numbers in w/ the asterisks, to give the system something to sort. That worked w/ only 2 numbers, they ''all'' sorted. So I backed out, and tried same w/ small numbers for a better look. Then w/ only 1 small "A" for adamantine, no numbers - that worked too! Then, just for the helluvit, I tried making one asterisk small - and that worked too, w/ no visible difference in text. All it needed was one difference, and they all get sorted, np. woot and a half.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:32, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
:lol. Did you try it with no change at all? I bet that would have sorted, too. Why? Because the edit right before yours was a fix :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
::... buzzkill! LOL! didn't even see an edit before mine. suuuuupra jeeeeenius!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:02, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== User name vs preferred name/nickname ==

Albedo, I don't know why you think that it's unacceptable for someone to use a different name to sign their posts. 
There's a built-in function for doing exactly that (once you figure out how to use it) in your preferences. 
Additionally, while this isn't Wikipedia, you still shouldn't bite the newbies. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:I guess because I'm used to going to "User:Name" to find their page, and that doesn't work - why take one username when you intend to use an entirely diff nickname? And I felt I was more muzzling than biting - over-enthusiasm is laudable, and ignorance is something that everyone has, but a bad combination together in public.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:59, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::Personally, I joined with my usual semi-anonymous handle, as I wasn't sure I'd stick around, or that the wiki was going to be worth working on. Later decided that I was going to try to be a significant part of the community, and set my nickname/signature to my Real first name. That's probably something similar to most people who use non-User name signatures. It's also possible that what name people would normally choose won't work for signing up. ''In the end, clicking the signature of a user will take you there, regardless of what they put in it or why they don't use their user name.'' -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Do tell. And you do this "clicking" thing with that computer mouse thing???... Stating the obvious is... well, exactly what it is. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:48, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::::lol... ok, you want blunt? Don't tell other people to do something a certain way that you prefer, simply because you don't want to use the system already in place. -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

:::No, altho' blunt serves it's purpose. However now you're simply repeating what you've already said, which again serves none. But it seems I must follow suit - if I want to go to your page but don't have your sig in front of me, I would normally type "User:Edward" in the search box and hit "go" - that doesn't work. Hence, problematic, and NO direct system is in place. Solution? Either Search, or create a redirect for you. And your personal shift in names is not what TD did - which I thought would also be obvious. Your concern is admirable - I think you are/were confused as to my exact position, which is "Why adopt a psuedonym ''the same day'' you create the User Account?".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::It annoys me too, Albedo. But I really just think we should let it lie. Can't really hurt anything, can it? Other than our brains, but whatever.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::<nods> --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::... I didn't mean to get you all riled up. And thank you, [[User:N9103|Edward]], for asking him not to bite me, but I /did/ rather earn it... at least the ignorant + over-enthusiastic part. (I'm not saying I'm cured, yet, either.) Also, with warnings all over the place, if I can't handle a little criticism, I should just go home and cry, and not come back until I'm all grown up. Boo hoo. Ok, I'm done now.
::: Again, as to the me not signing with a link, it was a P.S. There was a (hand typed, oif) link directly above. Also, I was /really/ new and /really/ ignorant. I'm still fairly new (I've still got the "how to use the tildies to sign your name" guide at the top of my talks page so I don't forget), and I'll always be ignorant, but I'm fairly decent at figuring things out once five or six people have yelled at me about the same thing. Thanks, btw. I did need that. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:12, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
::::I might recommend putting in a new-user default page that explains basic behind-the-wiki language, except for 2 things. A) It would not have helped me keep out of trouble, since I initially signed up due to poor impulse control and I /had/ to respond to... I don't even know what, anymore. And B) most (but not all) is fairly easy to pick up on the fly if you (bother to) look at how it was done by the other six people who responded before you... which is why I was typing my link out by hand at first... and some of them said "Teres Draconis" instead of "jaz" because I didn't understand the syntax ''at all''. When I say "I don't speak geek," I'm not joking. But I think I'm learning to read this dialect fairly well. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]
:::::The WTML is fairly easy to understand, much easier than HTML. There is a very helpful help section at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents/Editing_Wikipedia The Big Wiki]. Note that their rules are different from ours, you don't need to follow their style guidelines.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

== Non-Dwarves guide to stone comment==
I guess you removed my comment on alunite to avoid confusion with the value stuff? I've had places where you can't go more than 20 tiles or so without "You have struck Alunite!".--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 12:30, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
:(response) Np then as it's understandable to avoid confusion.

== [[Armor sets]] ==

You seem to be interested in changing these. How do you like what I did?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:44, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] seems not to like it so much. hmm...--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 03:48, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

== glass = wood ==

[[elf|Elves]] dislike green glass as well? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:16, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:Good point - now that you mention it, dunno. (I didn't make the original post, just expanded to explain the connection). I've got a Spring trading session coming up, and green/clear glass - I can triple check. Or, if you know the answer, of course feel free to edit the edit, np by me.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

::I have no clue on this one :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:03, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Did you use charcoal as fuel when making the glass? (charcoal = dead tree) I've found that on the few fortresses I've had with /no/ source of coke, elves got /very/ picky about what they'd buy. If you used charcoal to smelt the ores, using coke to make finished products may "correct" this problem, but it's rather hard to tell, now. Of course, that doesn't help with glass, does it? That's a single fuel product. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 09:40, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

== quotes ==

You know, if you change a quote then it's not a quote any more. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:34, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

:Also, fyi, quote page policy is that re-adding removed quotes requites a talk page discussion. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:36, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

::You're right, but considering your given reasons for that mass deletion, I didn't bother with a vote for each one, I just reduced their size and replaced. Not all of them - a couple I didn't feel should have been there to begin with, length or no.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:You didn't respond to the first issue, which is the bigger one imo. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:55, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::You can't change what someone else said just because they didnt say it the way you wanted them to. If the spelling bothers you so much, then feel free to tag it with [sic], but if you change the content at all then it's not a quote any more. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Sorry, but that is, in my personal opinion, absolutely absurd. But fine - you asked for it.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:48, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::Arbitrary quote removal is completely supported by the current quote guidelines. You can find them on [[talk:Main Page/Quote]]. These are not guidelines that I made up on the spot or forced on anyone. They have been around for a while. This is not cause for ad-hominem attacks (actually, I can't think of any situation that ''is'') [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:13, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

== Various disagreements ==

I just wanted to say that even though you and me are disagreeing quite a bit lately, I usually agree with most of your decisions. I think you're a good, rational editor. So please don't take things personally when an argument comes up. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:44, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
:Good rational editor. Yup.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 22:00, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
::And it all seems so polite. It's nice when people can disagree with courtesy and style. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 09:42, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

== Defense Guide ==

Hi, I'm a lurker, and know squat about wiki editing. However, there is something that should go into one of the new pages - but I'm not sure which. Mechanics (and others) have a nasty habit of wanting to clean, or reload traps during conflict. Forbidding traps after they are built will keep, for example, DOdok McGoblinBait from deciding to reload a stone trap in the middle of a siege. I got this info from [[User:0x517A5D]]'s Siege Checklist, which has some other defense info as well. FWIW, I think you're doing a great job with this. --[[User:Bob|Bob]] 01:29, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== <nowiki>[[link]]s vs [[links]]</nowiki> ==

You know why redirects were invented right?

So editors like me can be lazy. (Alternatively you could hunt up all the plural redirects and nuke all of them, there are plenty.)

Having said that, I made the change because I find <nowiki>[[masons]] easier on the eye in the edit window than [[mason]]s</nowiki>, but it's an "individual preference" I guess.

By the way: rhetorical questions in edit comments make you look like a smart arse, just like my first line makes me look like one. There is no "tone of voice" in an edit comment.
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

:G'morning! You're right. I was tired, and hadn't remembered you were an old hand at this. My comments were meant to be helpful, not condescending, but I can see how it could be read either way. So many editors dive in without realizing what's going on, and since it's invisible in the final product... Meh, in the end, masons, masunz - whatever works. I guess for me, it's all about the "root word stem", but as you say, that's just preference. For what it's worth, I agree with 99% of your edits that I've seen, and the other 1% are a coin toss by me. I guess this is one coin toss I kneejerked on.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 13:55, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
::No harm, no foul... you say g'morning, I say g'night! All I know is I just survived an ambush for the first time without saying f#@k this and abandoning. Pop went from 65 to 50 though... :( (my recruits v their Master bowmen) Thank you surpentine passageway and stone-fall traps! Now what do I do with a half-dozen gobs? [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 14:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

== Screenshot Tilessets ==

I'm sure you're aware of {{Rule|I}}. 
Mentioning it due to the SS's you put up on the Vein (and other) page(s). -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 00:28, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:??? - I am aware of it, and I use the vanilla DF tileset - why do you mention it?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:15, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::Ah, I see the issue, you're using the default graphical set. Hmm.. the rule is kinda ambiguous there. I just picked up on it from seeing the bearded dwarf, since I always stick to the pure ASCII, as does most of the wiki. Perhaps this means that a call for clarification should be made on Rule I? -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Exactly, the "default graphical set" - and rule I says "''Images and screenshots should use the default tilesets for clarity''" - not sure what else it is that you were expecting, nor what "clarification" there needs to be made - default is defaul, neh? The recent tiles I posted in mega projects ([[tower]]) were straight off this site - here [[Character table]]. Can you point to an example of what you were expecting? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:08, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::::The graphical set and character set use somewhat different images for most of the tiles. Certain characters like the dwarves, and dwarfbuck, have noticeable differences between the graphical and character sets. It's no big deal really, but it seems inconsistent to have some SS's with the graphical set and SS's and diagrams with the character set. (Not that it's your fault either, mind you. I agree that the rule was followed, but as I said, I think the rule might need to be changed.) -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:21, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Ah, I see - I remember that I tried using the default "tiles", but my PC balked at the very idea. It seems there are about 3 different "defaults" lying around - those two plus this wiki's ascii table - hrmmm. While standardization is good, I'm not sure how we can expect a "vanilla user" to conform to both sets. (How diff is it?) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:38, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::::::Not sure how I could quantify the differences any further than I have already. You could look for yourself at the curses and graphical files in your directory for further comparison. The differences aren't really that big, and I agree that the average editor probably wouldn't know the difference, but then, you're no average editor, are you? ;) I guess the most I'm realistically hoping for is that a handful of editors that are looking for something to do (perhaps Jaz would be a good recruit for this?) would re-capture the images that don't use whichever set is agreed upon to be the standard. I dunno, don't really have any ideas for this, outside of the idea that we need ideas :p -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:44, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== ??? ==

If you know what's going on, then I must be missing something. I don't get the point of what you did at all. How is <nowiki>[[rope]] different from [[restraint|rope]]</nowiki>? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:49, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== re: End of statement ==

See [[talk:soap]]. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]]

== Masonry ==

I see in several articles you've mentioned that a building requires the masonry labor to construct. For a few of these, I'm suspicious because of how it is with screw pumps. There it depends on the building material, just as with walls and bridges. Rock, glass, and soap building materials will require masonry. Wood will require carpentry, and metal will require metalsmithing. I have only had this come up with bridges, screw pumps, and walls, but I expect this will hold in general. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
:Now that you mention it, you're right - I make those with stone blocks exclusively, and wanted to emphasize the 2-stage construction - just spaced on other labors for other materials. I'll track down what I can.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

== version tags ==

You can use <nowiki>{{subst:current}}</nowiki> to create a version tag on a page for the current version. When you use template:version in other cases, please try to use an actual version number (eg: 0.28.181.40d) since otherwise it will get stuck into [[:category:unknown version]] rather than the appropriate [[:category:version|version]] category. This will matter when game updates make us pick over the old stuff. Also, the game mechanics of 40d# versions are identical to 40d since the only changes are Baughn's OpenGL fixes. For this reason, it's safe to bundle those under 40d's umbrella. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:24, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

== RE: Garnierite ==

I'm an absolute twit; It *was* in gabbro, i forgot that gabbro looks exactly like obsidian. *doh*. [[User:Riffraffselbow|Riffraffselbow]] 01:24, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

== Burrows ==

Toady did put in burrows, but the version Toady is working on is different from Baughn's OpenGL project. The d# releases are made by Baughn. When we have another version from Toady (with different game code) it will have a different [[version]] number. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:31, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The "open gaming" was an just incredibly weird thing to see in the article. An "open gaming" update doesn't even parse right. It wasn't an intended as an insult; rather an exclamation at the strangeness of the thing. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:23, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and the other arrangement wasn't consistent with the formatting of the article. I didn't think altering it would be a problem since the same information is available a paragraph away. It's aesthetic nitpicking. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:28, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

== 2 minutes ==

That would mean your framerate would not be 100 FPS. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 10:00, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:More confidence? It's obvious. That's *all* that needed said. And frankly, I don't care whether people with faster computers see the game as more of a game or not. All I was doing was explaining *why* it takes you 2 minutes as opposed to 2 seconds for you (which was already explained *in* the article after my revision. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 10:39, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::Except that you'd be deleting a talk discussion between multiple people. Even just deleting your parts would ruin the discussion, and whether or not it was or wasn't valid at this time doesn't mean it couldn't be a valid discussion for people later on, maybe someone using the Dig Deeper mod will have the same question and won't be certain if it's the mod or by default, then by seeing the talk there they'll see that it's the mod that does it. Or someone could have the same weird problem as you and might be able to give better explanation for why. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 19:27, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

== actually ==
would be nobles'. :) But this wording is better anyway. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:51, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Quietust explained the purpose of the restricted areas in the article. They are purely to demonstrate that the dwarves had no route except that one. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:59, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

== RE: Ice Wolf ==

:''(you can "verify" yourself by looking at the file. 100% the same as "wolf" except biome and activity cycle)''

My "{{verify}}" was aimed toward the statement of them being "unnatural" creatures, not identical to regular wolves. Sorry for the confusion, though. --[[User:Bronzebeard|Bronzebeard]] 20:23, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

== Contact Info ==

Yes, I will make my email address available as soon as I get a few more things worked out with the server. [[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:54, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

== IP Numbers / Sig ==

Is it possible you were logged out at the time? I enabled anonymous edits for at least a trial period earlier today. If that's not it, let me know and I'll dig deeper.--[[User:Briess|Briess]] 06:47, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
:Wikipedia.com does not have any edit restriction time; instead, they have a brief period of time before a user is auto-confirmed. IP issues may seem odd, but a user is not going to have his IP address dynamically reallocated while using the wiki (as that would cause an internet disconnection at the minimum), responding on the talk page is the same for as a user, and restricting edits based on an arbitrary account scheme is not exactly something that is welcoming. Instead, (and this is from my experience on wikipedia); you'll find that many times the users that continue on and perform substantial positive edits start out as an ip, and eventually register a username; also, the way the current captcha is set up encourages registration (skip the annoying captcha instead of filling one out every single edit, yay!). I understand where your concerns are coming from, but some people like to be anonymous contributors. We shouldn't begrudge them that; and if ip vandalism ever becomes an issue, it's trivial for an sysop to block an IP, range of IPs, or I can very quickly disable edits from unregistered users. At the very least, I want to see what kind of anonymous contributions we will get here for about a month before I go and disable anonymous edits again. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 06:40, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
::Yeesh, you just want to make me work, huh? announcements all over the place! Yeah, I'll point out the stuff somewhere, but preferably when I'm less sleepy and slightly more awake. :) Also, my brain is not sufficiently on right now to answer your question in any fashion that would make sense, so I'll do that once I've had my caffeine for the day.--[[User:Briess|Briess]] 09:22, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

== Eagles ==

"[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_Eagle In the real world], Giant Eagles are flying supermarkets that are nearly as strong as elephants." I laughed for a good couple of minutes.--[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:57, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
:Er, oops, meant to see if you thought perhaps we should change it :V --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 22:02, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

== Room requirements (Noble Discussion Page) ==
You're married, and you don't wish you had your own room sometimes? Let me put it this way - maybe the DF royals don't know about this "law of marriage" (and law of dining, and law of dying) that you adhere to. Or, maybe you've just never been dwarven royalty. If it's still not clear, then just accept that.--Albedo 15:02, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

: What's clear is that I'm not going to discuss on this website whether I'm dating, married or otherwise in real life, and even less the laws and morals that I adhere to. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 07:43, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Albedo

2009-10-16T07:43:20Z

Aykavil: /* clearly */

== Aluminum in copper ==

I have definitely seen aluminum inside a copper vein. It was freakin amazing. Also found 3 magnetite flippin huge clusters, each as big as my fort, 3 lignite veins, 2 microcline (bleagh) big groups, gold and silver vein, 1 hematite vein. It was great. More iron than I know what to do with. But totally aluminum in copper. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:26, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Stone articles ==

The articles on the various types of [[stone]] are based entirely on data taken from the game raws. It's possible the raw data has changed since the article was written, but observation alone is not good enough when we have that kind of inside info. If you see some sort of weird anomaly (like veins of aluminum), then Toady would most likely appreciate a bug report about that. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:28, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
:not veins of aluminum. Aluminum adjacent to veins. I have seen it in hematite, and copper. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:05, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

::Could someone point me to where the discussions are on how the articles should be set up? Sorry. I just... I'm being impulsive and driven and stuff and I want to know so I can /do/ stuff, and... you know, stuff. With stuff in it. I'm clearer after sleep, I promise. (Don't believe me, I'm always ambiguous, though rarely by intent.) --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 08:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::NM. Found it. Duh... Trust me, sleep ''is'' my friend. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

== (response) ==

But ''is'' it an anomaly? I'm not sure how to read the RAW's at that level. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

::Both are IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE, so, depending upon how the raws are acted upon, there are several ways this could happen...
:::1) The layer tiles are replaced first with veins(copper), and then small clusters (aluminum). Veins sometimes leave pockets of the layer stone incased, when the vein splits and then reconnects. I've seen it a few times, but I wouldn't call it common. The small cluster that would have been aluminum if the copper weren't there covers part or all of the area within the pocket. The rest of area of the small cluster is ignored, since the aluminum raws do not mention copper. (The way platinum mentions magnetite, for example).
:::2) The layer tiles are replaced first with the small clusters (aluminum) and then the veins (copper)... the copper vein just happens to meander around the pre-existing aluminum.
:::3) It does several iterations of whatever order it does, making both options 1 and 2 possible, potentially simultaniously (though not in the same tile, obviously).
:::4) Something completely different I have no clue about. I could make some stabs at things that could have caused that result, but they would all be both difficult and clunky, both in the design and in the implimentation.
:::5) It glitched. It's a computer. It happens all the time.
::Was that ''completely'' useless, or just mostly so? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC) (Poking around at modding is helping me learn to read RAW)

==Trader==

If the Appraiser skill is the highest skill you have, isn't the profession "trader"? I know I've seen the trader profession before. Below is what I think the skill/professions are.

Appraiser -> Trader 
Building designer -> Architect 
Organizer -> Administrator 
Record keeper ->Clerk 

I ''think'' that you are correct in that the overall skill (when you have two or more skills close in skill level) is also adminstrator. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Just read your log - I notice you build walls around the pipe. Have you considered a channel around the pit? Same effect, but you don't have to carry stone.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 21:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

:Fixed Trader - my bad. Read the Skill discussion page - that group of skills is not at all clear.

:I don't intend to go near the imps - the wall will create an AG enclosure above my dining hall/kitchen area, for AG crops, statue garden, private water and fishing area, etc etc. (More extensive answers in Kwieland's talk page) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:15, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

== fuel ==
While it is true that I moved the page to "Refined coal", the page I moved it from was "Refined Coal". The naming convention you were asking about is to only capitalize the first letter, since wiki links are case sensitive on all letters except the first. I think the original name of the article was "Refined Coal".

As for the origin of the term, it appears in the cancellation message if you assign a fuel-requiring task when you have no fuel. If this message no longer shows up, I have no qualms about retiring the term. However, if it still does then "refined coal" is a more suitable name than "fuel" since only "refined coal" appears in-game. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:I agree that the confusion needs to be cleared up, but I don't think separating [[fuel]] and [[refined coal]] into separate articles will help since they are just words for the same thing. I think that the best solution would be a short disambiguation at the top of the [[refined coal]] page. As long as all the terms redirect to that page anyone interested in any of them will end up seeing it. As for the title, we should definitely prefer an in-game term over a forum-supplied term. Everyone who uses the wiki plays the game, but not everyone uses the forum.

:The article as-is contains all the information pertaining to the naming issue, but if you think it's confusing, the page organization may be to blame. Perhaps information pertaining to names and categories could be consolidated at the top. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

::There is no such thing as "fuel coal". The terms are "refined coal" and "coal fuel". [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:::I know, I know! And I find I can't shake that term! (esp when tired). Not sure where used it this time, but it's like Pres. Bush saying "nucular arsenal". Arrrggghhhh!!!! --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:52, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

== Olivine ==

See [[Talk:Olivine]] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

==That revealed vein comment of Zchris13==
I totally understand why you undid that, but it was sort of funny. And I can accomplish that without using a third party utility. I can create down stairs on the level above, which reveals the tile. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:57, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== armorsmith page - re quality of artifact armor ==

In my head, I thought artifact armour & weapons were better than masterwork too, but that's not what the [[Item quality]] page says:

:☼Item Name☼ Masterful ×12 ×2.0
:Unique name Artifact ×120 ×2.0

And we should assume that's accurate, neh?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:nobody knows. It is a mystery!!!! Ohhhh... I really don't know what to believe. Toady has dropped contradicting hints, people report contradicting data, and nobody really knows what is going on. I say we just put a maybe in there. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 02:00, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

== Sorting table on [[Metal]] page by color ==

The issue is that the only plaintext in the color column is "*", which is hard to sort by. If we want it to be sortable we need the plaintext of each entry to not be identical. A pretty way to pull this off isn't coming to mind, but that's the goal. Nice work on the table, by the way. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:22, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:Maybe the first letter of the color name, in the same color as the background. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:15, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

::Or change the tile entirely - the more I look at it, not sure what the whole "background color" achieves. But as I understand it the use of the icon (the asterisk) representing the ore is the problem. May take some rethinking.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:Every metal has a unique foreground color and a unique background color. On items like doors, you get to see both. This is actually why doors are included in the corners of the diagram on the assorted metal pages (eg: [[copper]]) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
::: <Nods> Got it. Is there a way to "pipe" the icon in, and use some numerical representation to sort? Meh, you've probably thought of that. Or piping the icon in??? Or using a subtly diff icon? Sorting by color is, admittedly, perhaps the least of our concerns with that table. Maybe remove the "sortable" part from the template for now?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:24, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
:What is it we are sorting here? --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
:: Metal page table (fixed in sub-title above)
HA! fixed. me r hte supra jeeeenius! Completely by accident, natch. Tried adding numbers in w/ the asterisks, to give the system something to sort. That worked w/ only 2 numbers, they ''all'' sorted. So I backed out, and tried same w/ small numbers for a better look. Then w/ only 1 small "A" for adamantine, no numbers - that worked too! Then, just for the helluvit, I tried making one asterisk small - and that worked too, w/ no visible difference in text. All it needed was one difference, and they all get sorted, np. woot and a half.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:32, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
:lol. Did you try it with no change at all? I bet that would have sorted, too. Why? Because the edit right before yours was a fix :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
::... buzzkill! LOL! didn't even see an edit before mine. suuuuupra jeeeeenius!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:02, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== User name vs preferred name/nickname ==

Albedo, I don't know why you think that it's unacceptable for someone to use a different name to sign their posts. 
There's a built-in function for doing exactly that (once you figure out how to use it) in your preferences. 
Additionally, while this isn't Wikipedia, you still shouldn't bite the newbies. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:I guess because I'm used to going to "User:Name" to find their page, and that doesn't work - why take one username when you intend to use an entirely diff nickname? And I felt I was more muzzling than biting - over-enthusiasm is laudable, and ignorance is something that everyone has, but a bad combination together in public.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:59, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::Personally, I joined with my usual semi-anonymous handle, as I wasn't sure I'd stick around, or that the wiki was going to be worth working on. Later decided that I was going to try to be a significant part of the community, and set my nickname/signature to my Real first name. That's probably something similar to most people who use non-User name signatures. It's also possible that what name people would normally choose won't work for signing up. ''In the end, clicking the signature of a user will take you there, regardless of what they put in it or why they don't use their user name.'' -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Do tell. And you do this "clicking" thing with that computer mouse thing???... Stating the obvious is... well, exactly what it is. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:48, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::::lol... ok, you want blunt? Don't tell other people to do something a certain way that you prefer, simply because you don't want to use the system already in place. -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

:::No, altho' blunt serves it's purpose. However now you're simply repeating what you've already said, which again serves none. But it seems I must follow suit - if I want to go to your page but don't have your sig in front of me, I would normally type "User:Edward" in the search box and hit "go" - that doesn't work. Hence, problematic, and NO direct system is in place. Solution? Either Search, or create a redirect for you. And your personal shift in names is not what TD did - which I thought would also be obvious. Your concern is admirable - I think you are/were confused as to my exact position, which is "Why adopt a psuedonym ''the same day'' you create the User Account?".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::It annoys me too, Albedo. But I really just think we should let it lie. Can't really hurt anything, can it? Other than our brains, but whatever.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::<nods> --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::... I didn't mean to get you all riled up. And thank you, [[User:N9103|Edward]], for asking him not to bite me, but I /did/ rather earn it... at least the ignorant + over-enthusiastic part. (I'm not saying I'm cured, yet, either.) Also, with warnings all over the place, if I can't handle a little criticism, I should just go home and cry, and not come back until I'm all grown up. Boo hoo. Ok, I'm done now.
::: Again, as to the me not signing with a link, it was a P.S. There was a (hand typed, oif) link directly above. Also, I was /really/ new and /really/ ignorant. I'm still fairly new (I've still got the "how to use the tildies to sign your name" guide at the top of my talks page so I don't forget), and I'll always be ignorant, but I'm fairly decent at figuring things out once five or six people have yelled at me about the same thing. Thanks, btw. I did need that. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:12, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
::::I might recommend putting in a new-user default page that explains basic behind-the-wiki language, except for 2 things. A) It would not have helped me keep out of trouble, since I initially signed up due to poor impulse control and I /had/ to respond to... I don't even know what, anymore. And B) most (but not all) is fairly easy to pick up on the fly if you (bother to) look at how it was done by the other six people who responded before you... which is why I was typing my link out by hand at first... and some of them said "Teres Draconis" instead of "jaz" because I didn't understand the syntax ''at all''. When I say "I don't speak geek," I'm not joking. But I think I'm learning to read this dialect fairly well. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]
:::::The WTML is fairly easy to understand, much easier than HTML. There is a very helpful help section at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents/Editing_Wikipedia The Big Wiki]. Note that their rules are different from ours, you don't need to follow their style guidelines.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

== Non-Dwarves guide to stone comment==
I guess you removed my comment on alunite to avoid confusion with the value stuff? I've had places where you can't go more than 20 tiles or so without "You have struck Alunite!".--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 12:30, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
:(response) Np then as it's understandable to avoid confusion.

== [[Armor sets]] ==

You seem to be interested in changing these. How do you like what I did?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:44, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] seems not to like it so much. hmm...--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 03:48, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

== glass = wood ==

[[elf|Elves]] dislike green glass as well? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:16, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:Good point - now that you mention it, dunno. (I didn't make the original post, just expanded to explain the connection). I've got a Spring trading session coming up, and green/clear glass - I can triple check. Or, if you know the answer, of course feel free to edit the edit, np by me.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

::I have no clue on this one :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:03, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Did you use charcoal as fuel when making the glass? (charcoal = dead tree) I've found that on the few fortresses I've had with /no/ source of coke, elves got /very/ picky about what they'd buy. If you used charcoal to smelt the ores, using coke to make finished products may "correct" this problem, but it's rather hard to tell, now. Of course, that doesn't help with glass, does it? That's a single fuel product. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 09:40, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

== quotes ==

You know, if you change a quote then it's not a quote any more. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:34, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

:Also, fyi, quote page policy is that re-adding removed quotes requites a talk page discussion. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:36, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

::You're right, but considering your given reasons for that mass deletion, I didn't bother with a vote for each one, I just reduced their size and replaced. Not all of them - a couple I didn't feel should have been there to begin with, length or no.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:You didn't respond to the first issue, which is the bigger one imo. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:55, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::You can't change what someone else said just because they didnt say it the way you wanted them to. If the spelling bothers you so much, then feel free to tag it with [sic], but if you change the content at all then it's not a quote any more. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Sorry, but that is, in my personal opinion, absolutely absurd. But fine - you asked for it.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:48, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::Arbitrary quote removal is completely supported by the current quote guidelines. You can find them on [[talk:Main Page/Quote]]. These are not guidelines that I made up on the spot or forced on anyone. They have been around for a while. This is not cause for ad-hominem attacks (actually, I can't think of any situation that ''is'') [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:13, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

== Various disagreements ==

I just wanted to say that even though you and me are disagreeing quite a bit lately, I usually agree with most of your decisions. I think you're a good, rational editor. So please don't take things personally when an argument comes up. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:44, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
:Good rational editor. Yup.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 22:00, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
::And it all seems so polite. It's nice when people can disagree with courtesy and style. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 09:42, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

== Defense Guide ==

Hi, I'm a lurker, and know squat about wiki editing. However, there is something that should go into one of the new pages - but I'm not sure which. Mechanics (and others) have a nasty habit of wanting to clean, or reload traps during conflict. Forbidding traps after they are built will keep, for example, DOdok McGoblinBait from deciding to reload a stone trap in the middle of a siege. I got this info from [[User:0x517A5D]]'s Siege Checklist, which has some other defense info as well. FWIW, I think you're doing a great job with this. --[[User:Bob|Bob]] 01:29, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== <nowiki>[[link]]s vs [[links]]</nowiki> ==

You know why redirects were invented right?

So editors like me can be lazy. (Alternatively you could hunt up all the plural redirects and nuke all of them, there are plenty.)

Having said that, I made the change because I find <nowiki>[[masons]] easier on the eye in the edit window than [[mason]]s</nowiki>, but it's an "individual preference" I guess.

By the way: rhetorical questions in edit comments make you look like a smart arse, just like my first line makes me look like one. There is no "tone of voice" in an edit comment.
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

:G'morning! You're right. I was tired, and hadn't remembered you were an old hand at this. My comments were meant to be helpful, not condescending, but I can see how it could be read either way. So many editors dive in without realizing what's going on, and since it's invisible in the final product... Meh, in the end, masons, masunz - whatever works. I guess for me, it's all about the "root word stem", but as you say, that's just preference. For what it's worth, I agree with 99% of your edits that I've seen, and the other 1% are a coin toss by me. I guess this is one coin toss I kneejerked on.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 13:55, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
::No harm, no foul... you say g'morning, I say g'night! All I know is I just survived an ambush for the first time without saying f#@k this and abandoning. Pop went from 65 to 50 though... :( (my recruits v their Master bowmen) Thank you surpentine passageway and stone-fall traps! Now what do I do with a half-dozen gobs? [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 14:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

== Screenshot Tilessets ==

I'm sure you're aware of {{Rule|I}}. 
Mentioning it due to the SS's you put up on the Vein (and other) page(s). -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 00:28, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:??? - I am aware of it, and I use the vanilla DF tileset - why do you mention it?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:15, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::Ah, I see the issue, you're using the default graphical set. Hmm.. the rule is kinda ambiguous there. I just picked up on it from seeing the bearded dwarf, since I always stick to the pure ASCII, as does most of the wiki. Perhaps this means that a call for clarification should be made on Rule I? -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Exactly, the "default graphical set" - and rule I says "''Images and screenshots should use the default tilesets for clarity''" - not sure what else it is that you were expecting, nor what "clarification" there needs to be made - default is defaul, neh? The recent tiles I posted in mega projects ([[tower]]) were straight off this site - here [[Character table]]. Can you point to an example of what you were expecting? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:08, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::::The graphical set and character set use somewhat different images for most of the tiles. Certain characters like the dwarves, and dwarfbuck, have noticeable differences between the graphical and character sets. It's no big deal really, but it seems inconsistent to have some SS's with the graphical set and SS's and diagrams with the character set. (Not that it's your fault either, mind you. I agree that the rule was followed, but as I said, I think the rule might need to be changed.) -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:21, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Ah, I see - I remember that I tried using the default "tiles", but my PC balked at the very idea. It seems there are about 3 different "defaults" lying around - those two plus this wiki's ascii table - hrmmm. While standardization is good, I'm not sure how we can expect a "vanilla user" to conform to both sets. (How diff is it?) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:38, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::::::Not sure how I could quantify the differences any further than I have already. You could look for yourself at the curses and graphical files in your directory for further comparison. The differences aren't really that big, and I agree that the average editor probably wouldn't know the difference, but then, you're no average editor, are you? ;) I guess the most I'm realistically hoping for is that a handful of editors that are looking for something to do (perhaps Jaz would be a good recruit for this?) would re-capture the images that don't use whichever set is agreed upon to be the standard. I dunno, don't really have any ideas for this, outside of the idea that we need ideas :p -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:44, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== ??? ==

If you know what's going on, then I must be missing something. I don't get the point of what you did at all. How is <nowiki>[[rope]] different from [[restraint|rope]]</nowiki>? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:49, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== re: End of statement ==

See [[talk:soap]]. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]]

== Masonry ==

I see in several articles you've mentioned that a building requires the masonry labor to construct. For a few of these, I'm suspicious because of how it is with screw pumps. There it depends on the building material, just as with walls and bridges. Rock, glass, and soap building materials will require masonry. Wood will require carpentry, and metal will require metalsmithing. I have only had this come up with bridges, screw pumps, and walls, but I expect this will hold in general. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
:Now that you mention it, you're right - I make those with stone blocks exclusively, and wanted to emphasize the 2-stage construction - just spaced on other labors for other materials. I'll track down what I can.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

== version tags ==

You can use <nowiki>{{subst:current}}</nowiki> to create a version tag on a page for the current version. When you use template:version in other cases, please try to use an actual version number (eg: 0.28.181.40d) since otherwise it will get stuck into [[:category:unknown version]] rather than the appropriate [[:category:version|version]] category. This will matter when game updates make us pick over the old stuff. Also, the game mechanics of 40d# versions are identical to 40d since the only changes are Baughn's OpenGL fixes. For this reason, it's safe to bundle those under 40d's umbrella. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:24, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

== RE: Garnierite ==

I'm an absolute twit; It *was* in gabbro, i forgot that gabbro looks exactly like obsidian. *doh*. [[User:Riffraffselbow|Riffraffselbow]] 01:24, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

== Burrows ==

Toady did put in burrows, but the version Toady is working on is different from Baughn's OpenGL project. The d# releases are made by Baughn. When we have another version from Toady (with different game code) it will have a different [[version]] number. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:31, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The "open gaming" was an just incredibly weird thing to see in the article. An "open gaming" update doesn't even parse right. It wasn't an intended as an insult; rather an exclamation at the strangeness of the thing. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:23, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and the other arrangement wasn't consistent with the formatting of the article. I didn't think altering it would be a problem since the same information is available a paragraph away. It's aesthetic nitpicking. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:28, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

== 2 minutes ==

That would mean your framerate would not be 100 FPS. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 10:00, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:More confidence? It's obvious. That's *all* that needed said. And frankly, I don't care whether people with faster computers see the game as more of a game or not. All I was doing was explaining *why* it takes you 2 minutes as opposed to 2 seconds for you (which was already explained *in* the article after my revision. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 10:39, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
::Except that you'd be deleting a talk discussion between multiple people. Even just deleting your parts would ruin the discussion, and whether or not it was or wasn't valid at this time doesn't mean it couldn't be a valid discussion for people later on, maybe someone using the Dig Deeper mod will have the same question and won't be certain if it's the mod or by default, then by seeing the talk there they'll see that it's the mod that does it. Or someone could have the same weird problem as you and might be able to give better explanation for why. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 19:27, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

== actually ==
would be nobles'. :) But this wording is better anyway. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:51, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Quietust explained the purpose of the restricted areas in the article. They are purely to demonstrate that the dwarves had no route except that one. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:59, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

== RE: Ice Wolf ==

:''(you can "verify" yourself by looking at the file. 100% the same as "wolf" except biome and activity cycle)''

My "{{verify}}" was aimed toward the statement of them being "unnatural" creatures, not identical to regular wolves. Sorry for the confusion, though. --[[User:Bronzebeard|Bronzebeard]] 20:23, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

== Contact Info ==

Yes, I will make my email address available as soon as I get a few more things worked out with the server. [[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:54, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

== IP Numbers / Sig ==

Is it possible you were logged out at the time? I enabled anonymous edits for at least a trial period earlier today. If that's not it, let me know and I'll dig deeper.--[[User:Briess|Briess]] 06:47, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
:Wikipedia.com does not have any edit restriction time; instead, they have a brief period of time before a user is auto-confirmed. IP issues may seem odd, but a user is not going to have his IP address dynamically reallocated while using the wiki (as that would cause an internet disconnection at the minimum), responding on the talk page is the same for as a user, and restricting edits based on an arbitrary account scheme is not exactly something that is welcoming. Instead, (and this is from my experience on wikipedia); you'll find that many times the users that continue on and perform substantial positive edits start out as an ip, and eventually register a username; also, the way the current captcha is set up encourages registration (skip the annoying captcha instead of filling one out every single edit, yay!). I understand where your concerns are coming from, but some people like to be anonymous contributors. We shouldn't begrudge them that; and if ip vandalism ever becomes an issue, it's trivial for an sysop to block an IP, range of IPs, or I can very quickly disable edits from unregistered users. At the very least, I want to see what kind of anonymous contributions we will get here for about a month before I go and disable anonymous edits again. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 06:40, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
::Yeesh, you just want to make me work, huh? announcements all over the place! Yeah, I'll point out the stuff somewhere, but preferably when I'm less sleepy and slightly more awake. :) Also, my brain is not sufficiently on right now to answer your question in any fashion that would make sense, so I'll do that once I've had my caffeine for the day.--[[User:Briess|Briess]] 09:22, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

== Eagles ==

"[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_Eagle In the real world], Giant Eagles are flying supermarkets that are nearly as strong as elephants." I laughed for a good couple of minutes.--[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:57, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
:Er, oops, meant to see if you thought perhaps we should change it :V --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 22:02, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

== Room requirements (Noble Discusion Page) ==
You're married, and you don't wish you had your own room sometimes? Let me put it this way - maybe the DF royals don't know about this "law of marriage" (and law of dining, and law of dying) that you adhere to. Or, maybe you've just never been dwarven royalty. If it's still not clear, then just accept that.--Albedo 15:02, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

: What's clear is that I'm not going to discuss on this website whether I'm dating, married or otherwise in real life, and even less the laws and morals that I adhere to. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 07:43, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Noble

2009-10-16T07:32:39Z

Aykavil: /* Room requirements */

== Nobles affected by Reclaiming? ==

My current fortress is a reclaimed one, due to a fire that got into one of my guardtowers' food storage. In the old fortress, I had managed to get a Baron, who was soon skipping right up to Duke and Incoming king after a couple of immigrants. Well, after reclaiming, I proceeded as normal, except, even though my value is still incredibly high from the fortress (1 million+ created wealth, and 400k exported, now), I recieved a count within it's specified area of requirement, but not the Baron before. Even still, My Count does not seem to be upgrading to Duke anytime soon, seeing as I have 188 dwarves, now. Anyone have any ideas, now? [[User:Jwguy|Jwguy]] 12:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

== Noble Additions and Requirements ==

Added the dungeon keeper noble. He just showed up at my fort in year 1053. --[[Idles]]

I'm "fixing" the change, "16:59, 31 October 2007 Lightning4 (Talk | contribs) (1,934 bytes) (→Appointments - Isn't called bookkeeper, at least when the fortress is new.)", because in my forts it IS called bookkeeper when the fortress starts. Other edits have backed me up, suspect editor was confused--Please discuss this here? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 15:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I apologize, I was indeed incorrect. You do start with a Bookkeeper, which in very short order can be upgraded to a Treasurer. Unsure of requirements, possibly only requires 20 dwarves like the sheriff. My fortress has one and I haven't even done anything besides changed who had bookkeeping and set it to higher priority (did not build study yet). That's probably what got me confused since the bookkeeper upgrades very quickly. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 18:11, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::Yeah, 20 dwarves sounds accurate enough to put in there. He didn't turn when I had only 17. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 18:14, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

"Your original expedition leader will be the fourth dwarf down in the starting screen(the one in the middle)." This does not seem to hold true; I have a newly-developed habit of making the last dwarf on the screen (used to be my designated hauler-peasant) into the administrator, with all the social skills for filling the four starter noble roles. He gets auto-assigned to all four administrative positions; I'm thinking that instead of being fixed or random, the starting assignment is based on social skills. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 00:29, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

I had a Philosopher show up last night. I'm unsure of the requirement to get him; the only really notable thing that had happened was I got over 100 dwarves. I'm adding him to the list of Nobles, though, since I can confirm he still exists in the new version. I also divided the page structure between Appointed and Immigrant nobles, since the current header was misleading (Dungeon Master and Philosopher cannot be appointed). --[[User:Zurai|Zurai]] 20:55, 10 November 2007 (EST)

I had the king show up tonight. "The King arrives, dressed as a peasant." I have no idea what the requirements were. I missed the 1051 and 1052 dwarf caravans due to prolonged sieges, and had no immigrants those years. 1053 I had the caravan; a season later a wave of immigration brought my total dwarves up to 37. In the spring the king arrived, along with enough others to bring the population to 63. At that time I was notified that the Captain of the Guard position was available. Only thing I can think is that I hit adamantine during the siege years, and mistakenly built a number of ridiculously valuable adamantine objects. (Door, Coffin, etc.) This has raised my fortress value to 1.3 million. Is 1 million value perhaps the trigger? I have no coins, and no nobles other than the starting 4 positions. I did not appoint a sheriff. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:15, 15 November 2007 (EST)
:In the last version, hitting adamantine without proper requirement for the king triggered the reaction of having the king arrive dressed as a paysant. Maybe it's the same here. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 04:20, 15 November 2007 (EST)
== What determines expedition leader? ==

There are a number of situations to test out:
* No social skills on any dwarves
** ''Probably random, possibly based on the Dwarf's thoughts and preferences''
* Majority of social skills on one dwarf (various positions in start order)
** ''Test case 1: only one dwarf has social skills - gives that dwarf as leader and all positions''
* Social skills spread between multiple dwarves
** Is there any weight on which skill determines the leader?
--[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 01:25, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Is the first point certain? In my current fortress, I didn't assign any social skills to any dwarf, and I'm pretty certain that the dwarf that ended up expedition leader was the seventh in the list. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 02:28, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::In my current fort I assigned no social skills and the first dwarf in the list, one of my miners, is the expedition leader. --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:40, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:::Might be randomised then, I started three new fortresses for the test and each time it was the same so I made an assumption. Obviously this isn't the case can you two check what thoughts/prefs you have for those so we can look for some leadership criteria. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 08:10, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::::It's almost always been the first dwarf for me (assuming no one had leadership skills), but I could have sworn one time it assigned someone else. Maybe it defaults to the first dwarf on the list but can sometimes choose someone else under certain conditions. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 22:29, 10 November 2007 (EST)
:::::Perhaps the first dwarf didn't get it because of negative preferences? Some dwarves have a line in their thoughts/prefs that reads something like "X prefers to let others take leadership roles". [[User:Tocky|Tocky]] 11:04, 11 November 2007 (EST)

==Room requirements==
Maybe something about the nobles requiring better rooms and how to build them? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:15, 4 November 2007 (EST)
:Found it in [[room]]s, adding a link. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:34, 4 November 2007 (EST)

The [[How do I increase the value of a room quickly and easily]] page seems to be a pretty helpful page, but so far what links to it may not be much help when someone is in a pinch with their nobles ([[Door]], [[Room]], [[Furniture]] and the [[Frequently Asked Questions]]). After all, I assume that page exists for that constant problem with nobles where your new Duke requests a "Grand" dining room and DAMMIT, the best you can do is a "Decent" dining room and that sweet, kick-ass, dolomite dining table with the chrysoberyls the image of a dwarf striking down a goblin isn't ready yet because your legendary Gem Setter is "Attending Party". So perhaps a link on the Nobles page should also exist? [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 15:07, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

:New pages are largely useless without links - feel free! If you see a need, then, by definition, there is one.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:11, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

The room requirement for consorts is not clear. Seeing that they are married, don't they share a single bedroom with their spouse? Is this an exception to the law of marriage? The same questions hold for dining rooms and tombs. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 09:18, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

:It's perfectly clear. Lovers like to have their own rooms, even if they never use them. (When you start dating, you'll understand.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:04, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

:: Except that consorts are not ''dating'', they are [[Marriage|''married'']]. (When you are married, you'll understand.) --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:58, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

:::You're married, and you don't wish you had your own room sometimes? Let me put it this way - maybe the DF royals don't know about this "law of marriage" (and law of dining, and law of dying) that you adhere to. Or, maybe you've just never been dwarven royalty. If it's still not clear, then just accept that.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 15:02, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

::::Surely, you've noticed that you are contradicting what's currently written on the [[Marriage]] page. So if you're positive about the game mechanics, you should update that page. If you're not positive, that's when the ''still not clear'' kicks in. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 07:32, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

== Not 100? ==

I just received migrants. My population went from 76 to 100, and my settlement went from a village to a town. No nobles arrived with the migrants. [[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:14, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:Still a town at 108
:Another wave, and we're a city at 111 (migrants still incoming)
::My population went from 101 to 126 in one wave. A Baroness arrived at the same time and turned my settlement into a Barony. Shortly afterwards, my settlement turned into a County (125+ dwarves?). Then Baroness upgraded into a Countess. Baron consort upgraded to a Count Consort.--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 16:49, 19 November 2007 (EST)
::Next immigration wave, my pop hit 138. Nothing happens. Then next immigration wave, my pop hits 141, the Countess upgrades to Duchess and the Count Consort upgrades to Duke Consort. Also, "Incoming King" is the top line on the Nobles screen. When you select it, it shows you what you need to achieve in terms of 1. architecture value (15000) 2. road value (5000) and 3. offerings value. (5000). I'm not sure what criteria triggers the King as it happened at the same time as my Duchess. I did just hit 200k exported wealth. Conincedence? --[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 10:27, 20 November 2007 (EST)
::Another wave, jumped to 161 pop, and some more nobles, a Duke and his Duke Consort. Now I have both a Duke and Duchess!--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 14:06, 20 November 2007 (EST)
:I was made a city and a barony at 110, and promoted to county almost immediately after. No new immigration happened, and I hadn't reached the 120 mark yet. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 16:27, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:The last immigration wave brought me from 98 to a total of 124 including baron/consort, tax collector and hammerer. It is now a City and a Barony. I'll watch out if it changes on the first immigrant from the next wave.I currently have over 500k created wealth and 17000 exported.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:05, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:One child is born and now my total population is 125. Still a City and a Barony.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:23, 25 November 2007 (EST)
:My fortress was upgraded to County when the caravan left the map and my exported wealth leaped from 17k to 26k. The trigger for the County must be either 20k or 25k exported wealth. --[[User:Another|Another]] 12:47, 25 November 2007 (EST)
::Baron arrived during an immigration wave going from 88 to 112 dwarves, and upgraded to a Count not long after arrival but ''not'' immediately either (perhaps as the population went over 100?). Exported wealth was probably around 50k at the time. Now at 119 (and 80k exported) and not yet a Duke. Looks like there's a combination of factors involved. [[User:Cim|Cim]] 11:10, 14 December 2007 (EST)
:Upgrade of the fortress to Duchy was at exactly 140th dwarf from an immigration wave. "The Incoming King" included. Total created wealth - 950k, total exported - 30k.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:37, 1 December 2007 (EST)
: My Baron arrived in the immigration wave that took me over 100 (I had peaked at 96 previously) but this was also the season where I crossed the 50,000 threshold on exported wealth. I actually went from 48,000 to 62,000 over the course of the year, and the baron arrived in the Spring, I did have an immigration wave after crossing 50,000 in the fall. Almost immediately after my baron arrived, he was promoted to count. My population is 119. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 16:41, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:At exported wealth 45k, my Baron promoted to Count at the 110th immigrant. (Baron arrived in the first immigration wave after getting 80 population, can't remember what exported wealth was then) [[User:Cim|Cim]] 20:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:Population at 93 no Baron. Next wave - first person to arrive is a Countess, with this wave population went to 114. (So, had no Baron at all) --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:39, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Verified about 140 limit for Duke. My Wrestler have given birth to a boy, the populationd got to 140, and the next message is about the fortress becoming a capital of Duchy. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:10, 24 January 2008 (EST)

== Queen As Peasant ==

I had dug out some raw adamantine, not done anything with it, and I got a notification that 'Your ruler has arrived disguised as a peasant.' At the same time, my Dungeon Master arrived. I don't have an announcement in the log about the Queen, but I do about the DM. I'm treating her like it's legit, what's the deal?

:Your ruler has heard of the discovery of adamantine, and hurried to yuor fort to oversee the digging. She turned up "disguised as a peasant" because your fort doesn't meet the regular requirements for attracting the monarch and moving to your site officially would be embarassing (in roleplaying/story terms of course). She's perfectly legit, just wasn't attracted in the "conventional" sense by having the largest, wealthiest fort in the civilisation you belong to.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:42, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Baron mandates "crowns"? ==

I just got a baron, and the first thing he mandates is two crowns. So i type Crown into the jobs/manager list. nothing. So I type crown in dwarf wiki. Nothing. Can anyone help before I have to drop this noble into a pit to keep him from locking up my crafters?
:Info about specific crafts isn't present in the new wiki, but a crown is in fact a "craft" item. [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Craftsdwarf%27s_Workshop#Crafts You can see the old wiki info about crafts here]. You'll probably need to set several crafting jobs to get a crown since the item produced by a crafting task is random with several possibilities. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:06, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Killing nobles ? ==

Is killing nobles dangerous ? (does it stop immigrations or something ?)

Because I've got a Count totally uncontrolable, who can't stop throwing tantrums in the middle of my fortress, which is somewhat tiresome... So, if I just can lock him into his bedroom and let him starve to death, it would be great, but I don't know if it won't cause more problems..

(Also, sorry for my bad english, I'm french)
[[User:Timst|Timst]] 05:40, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:Killing off your nobles only really has the penalties associated with killing any other dwarf - their friends and family will be upset, and you lose that dwarf's abilities. In the case of nobles a replacement will usually turn up with the next migrant wave, unless your fort no longer meets the requirements for that noble. You can, of course, kill the replacement too - with lesser repercussions as he won't have had time to make any friends yet.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:38, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::Ok, thanks :) I was afraid that the death of a count could induct a reaction of the mountainhomes or something like that... If the only reaction will be the one of the countess, it will be ok :) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 07:00, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:::In the future, killing off a noble will have repercussions, however, so don't depend on that behaviour forever. ;-)
:::''Req291, NOBLE DEATH, (Future): Killing off nobles needs to have serious consequences. Once the counties (see Core28) are in, there could be revolts from the village if the count is popular. Other nobles could have angry relatives. Losing your law enforcement nobles could lead to more tantrums and other acts in large fortresses. Nobles should all be upset by the death of the tax collector. When a noble is buried, other dwarves could be sealed in the tomb.''
:::--[[User:JT|JT]] 15:11, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::::This doesn't sound like it has much effect on a "kill early, kill often" approach — e.g. preparing their death room immediately upon their arrival, and luring them in via a profile-set lever pull job. The count won't be popular (at least in your fort) if nobody knows him, unless he's popular by reputation or something. Angry relatives? If they show up friendly but ready to tantrum, I draft / lure them into killing rooms; if they're hostile, I deal with them like a siege. Nobles all being upset by the tax collector means nothing if I've killed all the nobles. And it's not like I'm going to make tombs for them, either. Only the law enforcement one looks like an issue.

::::On the other hand, maybe that's the point — you're penalised if you just randomly kill nobles because you don't like them, but you're also allowed to run a "screw the nobility, we're a free communal fortress" game (or have a "kill the entire current regime, we want a revolution" event) so long as you actively enforce it. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:02, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

: Another issue that can pop up is killing your Baron/Count/Duke, their spouse will stick around and remain a noble even after the replacement and their spouse has shown up. On one fortress my count had 3 Countess Consorts, one was his wife and the other 2 were leftovers from the previous 2 counts. One Baron happened to be standing under a drawbridge as it came down (don't ask what a drawbridge was doing in his room, lets just say he wasn't going to get that rock crystal item he wanted) and his widow was promoted to Countess Consort when the new Count showed up to replace him a few seasons later. That Count was tending a farm when a squad of gobs beat the living tar out of him and his widow remained a Countess Consort even after the third noble arrived to replace the dead Count. They all still make demands/mandates and still require rooms/tombs and all that as before. [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 20:55, 18 January 2009 (EST)

== Selling Nobles ==
<tt>╔═╦═╗</tt> Unlock doors, assign lever to noble, order lever pulled. 
<tt>║ò┼^┼</tt> Wait for noble to stand on cage trap, lock both doors. 
<tt>╚═╩═╝</tt> Wait for noble to fall asleep, sell caged noble to elves. 
:Sorry for the crude drawing. My wiki format skills are weak. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 14:36, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:Eh... except for the small known bug where trying to haul an occupied cage to the trading depot results in whatever is caged being freed and the empty cage being brought in. But once they fix that bug, maybe. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:30, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

::I've been trying to sell my dwarves for ages, as a 'clean' approach to dealing with nobles and unwanted immigration. Sadly, they always seem to die of thirst first. If I let them out just once to drink, they die of hunger. Maybe if I let them out twice... but that's a lot of effort. Better to just let them die, unless they're very popular or something. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Selling to the Elves? That's too cruel, even for nobles! Don't you know that the Elves are '''Cannibals!?!''' --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 12:45 17 August 2009 (EST)
::::[ENTITY:FOREST]
:::::[CREATURE:ELF]
:::::[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]

::::::Actually, they're not cannibals. That would state that they would eat each other if they killed each other. This is only that they'll eat the dead that they kill themselves, and as killing each other in their society is not acceptable they won't eat each other, however, if the Sapient_other tag was set to acceptable they might end up eating each other if they die by any means. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 20:16, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

::::::Well, eating deceased of your own kind is still cannibalism. [[User:Kurokikaze|Kurokikaze]] 11:15, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

== Category? ==

I would do this myself if I knew how, but perhaps someone should make a noble category, with all the noble related articles (Unfortunate accident, mandate, types of nobles, etc) in it. I think it would be useful. [[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 20:53, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

==Nobles Working==

Actually, nobles not only gather harvest if you put all dwarves harvest on, but they also help demolishing constructed walls.=--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 00:53, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:Thanks, I'll add that to [[labor]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

==Arrival Requirements Verified==
Ok, I just had the Baroness, Hammerer, and Tax Collector arrive simultaneously with no other dwarves. I'm playing with a population cap of 50, and births (plus overflow of last immigration wave) has finally taken me up to exactly 80 dwarves. Despite the population cap, the Baroness, Tax Collector, and Hammerer arrived by themselves.

<s>Note that the Baroness Consort has not arrived, presumably because he takes the place of a normal dwarf during the immigration wave and can't be generated in violation of the population cap (whereas the other three can).</s> nevermind, he just showed up.

I should also note that I earlier had the King arrive as a peasant by himself despite being at the population cap. He also brought no consort nor advisor (although I've never had him arrive as a peasant before, so I don't know if that's normal).

I have not seen a philosopher as of yet.

As my fortress wealth is past 8 million at this point, I think its safe to say I can rule that out as a cause (having seen them at much lower wealth in default pop cap games).

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:30, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:I had the usual five nobles show up once in an immigration wave that took me over 80 dwarves, and promptly killed them, along with most of the immigrants. I subsequently set my population max to 50. My current population (minus nobles) is 69, yet those same nobles continue to show up every few seasons, suggesting that once you become a barony (80 pop, initial baron/ess arrival), they'll continue to show up again, regardless of your current status. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:10, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

==Noble demands==

I currently have a Baroness demanding "item in Dining Room". Any idea what could satisfy this? I tried a bismuth bronze statue, no luck. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 00:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

: This is a bug. Check # 000491 @ http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 00:47, 5 January 2009 (EST)

==Pretentious Arrangements==

Thoughts about a lesser's pretentious <whatever> arrangements seem to be a common source of noble unhappiness. (this is especially annoying for me as my mayor has an artifact in her bedroom raising it to Royal and my queen has no list of likes and dislikes, so I can't make her happy just by having the right booze) it would be interesting to know what exactly causes the difference between "upset" and "shattered", how to avoid it, and good ways to mitigate it's effects. I might have to do some research on my old fort to check this myself. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 13:58, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:Well, I suspect that the difference is related to the difference in room value, although I suppose that's stating the obvious. Another obvious solution would be to move the artefact into the higher-ranked Noble's room, assuming that's possible. Otherwise, I suppose the simplest (if not the easiest) way to mitigate its effects is to add as much value as possible to the Queen's room. As well as furniture, you can get surprising results with smoothings, engravings, and building an expensive floor over the engraved one if you have no qualms about exploiting such strangeness.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:07, 6 January 2009 (EST)
::I can confirm it's the difference between relative worth. I kept getting these annoying messages in my count + consort until I stuffed a platinum statue in their rooms. Obviously, this increased the worth of the room by 12K, easily dominating the 'lesser' quarters.

::It does require that there be a significant difference; having them at roughly equal worth will cause unhappy thoughts, which was my problem in my most recent fortress. I just housed all my nobles in the same residential stack as everyone else, adding extra room additions off the main design for offices, dining rooms, etc. The Count's room was a LITTLE better as his walls happened to be ore-bearing, but it wasn't enough to please him, hence the statue.--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:04, 7 January 2009 (EST)
:::Alright, I've put the artefact cabinet back in my mayor's room, and now will proceed to test this principle by making the Queen's rooms incredibly nice. I'm going to start by replacing all her furniture with gold and platinum, and move up from there.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 15:49, 7 January 2009 (EST)
::::You may have a long way to go. Artifact furniture can easily be 50 or 60K, whereas the most expensive single piece of furniture I've ever been able to produce is a masterwork platinum statue, which is 12K. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:36, 7 January 2009 (EST)

::::While you can't order artifacts dumped, you can apparently order them forbidden. So maybe you could forbid it and then move the creator's quarters elsewhere, leaving the original one vacant. Or maybe you could make them temporary quarters elsewhere, wait for them to move the artifact, then forbid it and move them back. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:22, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::I believe you are misenterpreting the way artifacts, and ownership of artifacts works.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:12, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

== Noble upgrade size. ==

I have a count still event though I have 148 dwarves. Could it be dependant on more than just the 140, or is it different now? [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 21:55, 11 February 2009 (EST)

: I'm at 188 dwarves still with a count not a duke. Could there be a dependancy on metal jobs? Other than melting down the goblin metal, I don't have any metal jobs going. [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 10:47, 14 February 2009 (EST)

I just had a peasant give birth to a baby. This put my population at 110, and I immediately got a message that my fortress had been made into a county. So, I will remove the "verify" tags from the count/count consort promotion info.--[[User:Scrotch|Scrotch]] 18:59, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

::I'm certain that exports are a requirement. Remember that only wealth you have created can count as exports, trading goblin items won't raise the number. If you can't offer it, it doesn't count. I had a fortress with 140+ dwarves that jumped up to a barony from nothing when I started exporting. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 20:03, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Failure to comply ==

I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet, but what happens if you don't give a noble the room he/she requires? I know they get unhappy thoughts, but is that all? Will they punish anyone? Or just start throwing tantrums? Next useless noble I get is sleeping in the barracks. On the floor.
:Unhappy thoughts? I don't think there is any repercusions. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:26, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::Unhappy nobles means more mandates, more demands and harsher sentences. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 20:04, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I just read this and checked my noble's happiness levels and justice levels, and even though they all seem ecstatic lately I have someone who's being jailed for 64 days, which I think is pretty extreme. I have been fulfilling hardly any of their mandates though, so perhaps jail time is related more to mandates than happiness?[[User:Gnavin|Gnavin]] 14:29, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

== Why Nobles Exist: ==

Nobles exist because Dwarven government is a feudal system; the fortress is just a semi-autonomous local government which must still answer to the King, and here's why:
::Long ago in the Age of Myth, the King's ancestor was legendary +5 in every military skill and took control of everything, killing all who resisted. His descendants are now <s>fat, lazy, whoremongering, good for nothing slobs</s> not as <s>cool</s> personally strong as he was, but they still technically own everything, including "your" fortress. The expedition that went to "colonize the King's land" did so with his permission, <s>usually given while drunk</s>. When your fortress becomes large enough that it can no longer <s>avoid notice</s> govern itself "properly", the King sends one of his <s>drinking mates</s> representatives to <s>screw up</s> "manage" the fortress. The nobles hold the authority of the King, and so there every <s>ridiculous</s> <s>stupid</s> <s>impossible</s> "reasonable" mandate "MUST" be obeyed. --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 12:37 17 August, 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Noble

2009-10-15T10:58:39Z

Aykavil: /* Room requirements */

== Nobles affected by Reclaiming? ==

My current fortress is a reclaimed one, due to a fire that got into one of my guardtowers' food storage. In the old fortress, I had managed to get a Baron, who was soon skipping right up to Duke and Incoming king after a couple of immigrants. Well, after reclaiming, I proceeded as normal, except, even though my value is still incredibly high from the fortress (1 million+ created wealth, and 400k exported, now), I recieved a count within it's specified area of requirement, but not the Baron before. Even still, My Count does not seem to be upgrading to Duke anytime soon, seeing as I have 188 dwarves, now. Anyone have any ideas, now? [[User:Jwguy|Jwguy]] 12:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

== Noble Additions and Requirements ==

Added the dungeon keeper noble. He just showed up at my fort in year 1053. --[[Idles]]

I'm "fixing" the change, "16:59, 31 October 2007 Lightning4 (Talk | contribs) (1,934 bytes) (→Appointments - Isn't called bookkeeper, at least when the fortress is new.)", because in my forts it IS called bookkeeper when the fortress starts. Other edits have backed me up, suspect editor was confused--Please discuss this here? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 15:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I apologize, I was indeed incorrect. You do start with a Bookkeeper, which in very short order can be upgraded to a Treasurer. Unsure of requirements, possibly only requires 20 dwarves like the sheriff. My fortress has one and I haven't even done anything besides changed who had bookkeeping and set it to higher priority (did not build study yet). That's probably what got me confused since the bookkeeper upgrades very quickly. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 18:11, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::Yeah, 20 dwarves sounds accurate enough to put in there. He didn't turn when I had only 17. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 18:14, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

"Your original expedition leader will be the fourth dwarf down in the starting screen(the one in the middle)." This does not seem to hold true; I have a newly-developed habit of making the last dwarf on the screen (used to be my designated hauler-peasant) into the administrator, with all the social skills for filling the four starter noble roles. He gets auto-assigned to all four administrative positions; I'm thinking that instead of being fixed or random, the starting assignment is based on social skills. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 00:29, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

I had a Philosopher show up last night. I'm unsure of the requirement to get him; the only really notable thing that had happened was I got over 100 dwarves. I'm adding him to the list of Nobles, though, since I can confirm he still exists in the new version. I also divided the page structure between Appointed and Immigrant nobles, since the current header was misleading (Dungeon Master and Philosopher cannot be appointed). --[[User:Zurai|Zurai]] 20:55, 10 November 2007 (EST)

I had the king show up tonight. "The King arrives, dressed as a peasant." I have no idea what the requirements were. I missed the 1051 and 1052 dwarf caravans due to prolonged sieges, and had no immigrants those years. 1053 I had the caravan; a season later a wave of immigration brought my total dwarves up to 37. In the spring the king arrived, along with enough others to bring the population to 63. At that time I was notified that the Captain of the Guard position was available. Only thing I can think is that I hit adamantine during the siege years, and mistakenly built a number of ridiculously valuable adamantine objects. (Door, Coffin, etc.) This has raised my fortress value to 1.3 million. Is 1 million value perhaps the trigger? I have no coins, and no nobles other than the starting 4 positions. I did not appoint a sheriff. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:15, 15 November 2007 (EST)
:In the last version, hitting adamantine without proper requirement for the king triggered the reaction of having the king arrive dressed as a paysant. Maybe it's the same here. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 04:20, 15 November 2007 (EST)
== What determines expedition leader? ==

There are a number of situations to test out:
* No social skills on any dwarves
** ''Probably random, possibly based on the Dwarf's thoughts and preferences''
* Majority of social skills on one dwarf (various positions in start order)
** ''Test case 1: only one dwarf has social skills - gives that dwarf as leader and all positions''
* Social skills spread between multiple dwarves
** Is there any weight on which skill determines the leader?
--[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 01:25, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Is the first point certain? In my current fortress, I didn't assign any social skills to any dwarf, and I'm pretty certain that the dwarf that ended up expedition leader was the seventh in the list. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 02:28, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::In my current fort I assigned no social skills and the first dwarf in the list, one of my miners, is the expedition leader. --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:40, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:::Might be randomised then, I started three new fortresses for the test and each time it was the same so I made an assumption. Obviously this isn't the case can you two check what thoughts/prefs you have for those so we can look for some leadership criteria. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 08:10, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::::It's almost always been the first dwarf for me (assuming no one had leadership skills), but I could have sworn one time it assigned someone else. Maybe it defaults to the first dwarf on the list but can sometimes choose someone else under certain conditions. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 22:29, 10 November 2007 (EST)
:::::Perhaps the first dwarf didn't get it because of negative preferences? Some dwarves have a line in their thoughts/prefs that reads something like "X prefers to let others take leadership roles". [[User:Tocky|Tocky]] 11:04, 11 November 2007 (EST)

==Room requirements==
Maybe something about the nobles requiring better rooms and how to build them? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:15, 4 November 2007 (EST)
:Found it in [[room]]s, adding a link. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:34, 4 November 2007 (EST)

The [[How do I increase the value of a room quickly and easily]] page seems to be a pretty helpful page, but so far what links to it may not be much help when someone is in a pinch with their nobles ([[Door]], [[Room]], [[Furniture]] and the [[Frequently Asked Questions]]). After all, I assume that page exists for that constant problem with nobles where your new Duke requests a "Grand" dining room and DAMMIT, the best you can do is a "Decent" dining room and that sweet, kick-ass, dolomite dining table with the chrysoberyls the image of a dwarf striking down a goblin isn't ready yet because your legendary Gem Setter is "Attending Party". So perhaps a link on the Nobles page should also exist? [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 15:07, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

:New pages are largely useless without links - feel free! If you see a need, then, by definition, there is one.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:11, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

The room requirement for consorts is not clear. Seeing that they are married, don't they share a single bedroom with their spouse? Is this an exception to the law of marriage? The same questions hold for dining rooms and tombs. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 09:18, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

::It's perfectly clear. Lovers like to have their own rooms, even if they never use them. (When you start dating, you'll understand.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:04, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

::: Except that consorts are not ''dating'', they are [[Marriage|''married'']]. (When you are married, you'll understand.) --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:58, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

== Not 100? ==

I just received migrants. My population went from 76 to 100, and my settlement went from a village to a town. No nobles arrived with the migrants. [[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:14, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:Still a town at 108
:Another wave, and we're a city at 111 (migrants still incoming)
::My population went from 101 to 126 in one wave. A Baroness arrived at the same time and turned my settlement into a Barony. Shortly afterwards, my settlement turned into a County (125+ dwarves?). Then Baroness upgraded into a Countess. Baron consort upgraded to a Count Consort.--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 16:49, 19 November 2007 (EST)
::Next immigration wave, my pop hit 138. Nothing happens. Then next immigration wave, my pop hits 141, the Countess upgrades to Duchess and the Count Consort upgrades to Duke Consort. Also, "Incoming King" is the top line on the Nobles screen. When you select it, it shows you what you need to achieve in terms of 1. architecture value (15000) 2. road value (5000) and 3. offerings value. (5000). I'm not sure what criteria triggers the King as it happened at the same time as my Duchess. I did just hit 200k exported wealth. Conincedence? --[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 10:27, 20 November 2007 (EST)
::Another wave, jumped to 161 pop, and some more nobles, a Duke and his Duke Consort. Now I have both a Duke and Duchess!--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 14:06, 20 November 2007 (EST)
:I was made a city and a barony at 110, and promoted to county almost immediately after. No new immigration happened, and I hadn't reached the 120 mark yet. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 16:27, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:The last immigration wave brought me from 98 to a total of 124 including baron/consort, tax collector and hammerer. It is now a City and a Barony. I'll watch out if it changes on the first immigrant from the next wave.I currently have over 500k created wealth and 17000 exported.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:05, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:One child is born and now my total population is 125. Still a City and a Barony.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:23, 25 November 2007 (EST)
:My fortress was upgraded to County when the caravan left the map and my exported wealth leaped from 17k to 26k. The trigger for the County must be either 20k or 25k exported wealth. --[[User:Another|Another]] 12:47, 25 November 2007 (EST)
::Baron arrived during an immigration wave going from 88 to 112 dwarves, and upgraded to a Count not long after arrival but ''not'' immediately either (perhaps as the population went over 100?). Exported wealth was probably around 50k at the time. Now at 119 (and 80k exported) and not yet a Duke. Looks like there's a combination of factors involved. [[User:Cim|Cim]] 11:10, 14 December 2007 (EST)
:Upgrade of the fortress to Duchy was at exactly 140th dwarf from an immigration wave. "The Incoming King" included. Total created wealth - 950k, total exported - 30k.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:37, 1 December 2007 (EST)
: My Baron arrived in the immigration wave that took me over 100 (I had peaked at 96 previously) but this was also the season where I crossed the 50,000 threshold on exported wealth. I actually went from 48,000 to 62,000 over the course of the year, and the baron arrived in the Spring, I did have an immigration wave after crossing 50,000 in the fall. Almost immediately after my baron arrived, he was promoted to count. My population is 119. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 16:41, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:At exported wealth 45k, my Baron promoted to Count at the 110th immigrant. (Baron arrived in the first immigration wave after getting 80 population, can't remember what exported wealth was then) [[User:Cim|Cim]] 20:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:Population at 93 no Baron. Next wave - first person to arrive is a Countess, with this wave population went to 114. (So, had no Baron at all) --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:39, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Verified about 140 limit for Duke. My Wrestler have given birth to a boy, the populationd got to 140, and the next message is about the fortress becoming a capital of Duchy. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:10, 24 January 2008 (EST)

== Queen As Peasant ==

I had dug out some raw adamantine, not done anything with it, and I got a notification that 'Your ruler has arrived disguised as a peasant.' At the same time, my Dungeon Master arrived. I don't have an announcement in the log about the Queen, but I do about the DM. I'm treating her like it's legit, what's the deal?

:Your ruler has heard of the discovery of adamantine, and hurried to yuor fort to oversee the digging. She turned up "disguised as a peasant" because your fort doesn't meet the regular requirements for attracting the monarch and moving to your site officially would be embarassing (in roleplaying/story terms of course). She's perfectly legit, just wasn't attracted in the "conventional" sense by having the largest, wealthiest fort in the civilisation you belong to.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:42, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Baron mandates "crowns"? ==

I just got a baron, and the first thing he mandates is two crowns. So i type Crown into the jobs/manager list. nothing. So I type crown in dwarf wiki. Nothing. Can anyone help before I have to drop this noble into a pit to keep him from locking up my crafters?
:Info about specific crafts isn't present in the new wiki, but a crown is in fact a "craft" item. [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Craftsdwarf%27s_Workshop#Crafts You can see the old wiki info about crafts here]. You'll probably need to set several crafting jobs to get a crown since the item produced by a crafting task is random with several possibilities. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:06, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Killing nobles ? ==

Is killing nobles dangerous ? (does it stop immigrations or something ?)

Because I've got a Count totally uncontrolable, who can't stop throwing tantrums in the middle of my fortress, which is somewhat tiresome... So, if I just can lock him into his bedroom and let him starve to death, it would be great, but I don't know if it won't cause more problems..

(Also, sorry for my bad english, I'm french)
[[User:Timst|Timst]] 05:40, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:Killing off your nobles only really has the penalties associated with killing any other dwarf - their friends and family will be upset, and you lose that dwarf's abilities. In the case of nobles a replacement will usually turn up with the next migrant wave, unless your fort no longer meets the requirements for that noble. You can, of course, kill the replacement too - with lesser repercussions as he won't have had time to make any friends yet.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:38, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::Ok, thanks :) I was afraid that the death of a count could induct a reaction of the mountainhomes or something like that... If the only reaction will be the one of the countess, it will be ok :) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 07:00, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:::In the future, killing off a noble will have repercussions, however, so don't depend on that behaviour forever. ;-)
:::''Req291, NOBLE DEATH, (Future): Killing off nobles needs to have serious consequences. Once the counties (see Core28) are in, there could be revolts from the village if the count is popular. Other nobles could have angry relatives. Losing your law enforcement nobles could lead to more tantrums and other acts in large fortresses. Nobles should all be upset by the death of the tax collector. When a noble is buried, other dwarves could be sealed in the tomb.''
:::--[[User:JT|JT]] 15:11, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::::This doesn't sound like it has much effect on a "kill early, kill often" approach — e.g. preparing their death room immediately upon their arrival, and luring them in via a profile-set lever pull job. The count won't be popular (at least in your fort) if nobody knows him, unless he's popular by reputation or something. Angry relatives? If they show up friendly but ready to tantrum, I draft / lure them into killing rooms; if they're hostile, I deal with them like a siege. Nobles all being upset by the tax collector means nothing if I've killed all the nobles. And it's not like I'm going to make tombs for them, either. Only the law enforcement one looks like an issue.

::::On the other hand, maybe that's the point — you're penalised if you just randomly kill nobles because you don't like them, but you're also allowed to run a "screw the nobility, we're a free communal fortress" game (or have a "kill the entire current regime, we want a revolution" event) so long as you actively enforce it. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:02, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

: Another issue that can pop up is killing your Baron/Count/Duke, their spouse will stick around and remain a noble even after the replacement and their spouse has shown up. On one fortress my count had 3 Countess Consorts, one was his wife and the other 2 were leftovers from the previous 2 counts. One Baron happened to be standing under a drawbridge as it came down (don't ask what a drawbridge was doing in his room, lets just say he wasn't going to get that rock crystal item he wanted) and his widow was promoted to Countess Consort when the new Count showed up to replace him a few seasons later. That Count was tending a farm when a squad of gobs beat the living tar out of him and his widow remained a Countess Consort even after the third noble arrived to replace the dead Count. They all still make demands/mandates and still require rooms/tombs and all that as before. [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 20:55, 18 January 2009 (EST)

== Selling Nobles ==
<tt>╔═╦═╗</tt> Unlock doors, assign lever to noble, order lever pulled. 
<tt>║ò┼^┼</tt> Wait for noble to stand on cage trap, lock both doors. 
<tt>╚═╩═╝</tt> Wait for noble to fall asleep, sell caged noble to elves. 
:Sorry for the crude drawing. My wiki format skills are weak. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 14:36, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:Eh... except for the small known bug where trying to haul an occupied cage to the trading depot results in whatever is caged being freed and the empty cage being brought in. But once they fix that bug, maybe. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:30, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

::I've been trying to sell my dwarves for ages, as a 'clean' approach to dealing with nobles and unwanted immigration. Sadly, they always seem to die of thirst first. If I let them out just once to drink, they die of hunger. Maybe if I let them out twice... but that's a lot of effort. Better to just let them die, unless they're very popular or something. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Selling to the Elves? That's too cruel, even for nobles! Don't you know that the Elves are '''Cannibals!?!''' --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 12:45 17 August 2009 (EST)
::::[ENTITY:FOREST]
:::::[CREATURE:ELF]
:::::[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]

::::::Actually, they're not cannibals. That would state that they would eat each other if they killed each other. This is only that they'll eat the dead that they kill themselves, and as killing each other in their society is not acceptable they won't eat each other, however, if the Sapient_other tag was set to acceptable they might end up eating each other if they die by any means. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 20:16, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

::::::Well, eating deceased of your own kind is still cannibalism. [[User:Kurokikaze|Kurokikaze]] 11:15, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

== Category? ==

I would do this myself if I knew how, but perhaps someone should make a noble category, with all the noble related articles (Unfortunate accident, mandate, types of nobles, etc) in it. I think it would be useful. [[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 20:53, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

==Nobles Working==

Actually, nobles not only gather harvest if you put all dwarves harvest on, but they also help demolishing constructed walls.=--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 00:53, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:Thanks, I'll add that to [[labor]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

==Arrival Requirements Verified==
Ok, I just had the Baroness, Hammerer, and Tax Collector arrive simultaneously with no other dwarves. I'm playing with a population cap of 50, and births (plus overflow of last immigration wave) has finally taken me up to exactly 80 dwarves. Despite the population cap, the Baroness, Tax Collector, and Hammerer arrived by themselves.

<s>Note that the Baroness Consort has not arrived, presumably because he takes the place of a normal dwarf during the immigration wave and can't be generated in violation of the population cap (whereas the other three can).</s> nevermind, he just showed up.

I should also note that I earlier had the King arrive as a peasant by himself despite being at the population cap. He also brought no consort nor advisor (although I've never had him arrive as a peasant before, so I don't know if that's normal).

I have not seen a philosopher as of yet.

As my fortress wealth is past 8 million at this point, I think its safe to say I can rule that out as a cause (having seen them at much lower wealth in default pop cap games).

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:30, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:I had the usual five nobles show up once in an immigration wave that took me over 80 dwarves, and promptly killed them, along with most of the immigrants. I subsequently set my population max to 50. My current population (minus nobles) is 69, yet those same nobles continue to show up every few seasons, suggesting that once you become a barony (80 pop, initial baron/ess arrival), they'll continue to show up again, regardless of your current status. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:10, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

==Noble demands==

I currently have a Baroness demanding "item in Dining Room". Any idea what could satisfy this? I tried a bismuth bronze statue, no luck. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 00:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

: This is a bug. Check # 000491 @ http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 00:47, 5 January 2009 (EST)

==Pretentious Arrangements==

Thoughts about a lesser's pretentious <whatever> arrangements seem to be a common source of noble unhappiness. (this is especially annoying for me as my mayor has an artifact in her bedroom raising it to Royal and my queen has no list of likes and dislikes, so I can't make her happy just by having the right booze) it would be interesting to know what exactly causes the difference between "upset" and "shattered", how to avoid it, and good ways to mitigate it's effects. I might have to do some research on my old fort to check this myself. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 13:58, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:Well, I suspect that the difference is related to the difference in room value, although I suppose that's stating the obvious. Another obvious solution would be to move the artefact into the higher-ranked Noble's room, assuming that's possible. Otherwise, I suppose the simplest (if not the easiest) way to mitigate its effects is to add as much value as possible to the Queen's room. As well as furniture, you can get surprising results with smoothings, engravings, and building an expensive floor over the engraved one if you have no qualms about exploiting such strangeness.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:07, 6 January 2009 (EST)
::I can confirm it's the difference between relative worth. I kept getting these annoying messages in my count + consort until I stuffed a platinum statue in their rooms. Obviously, this increased the worth of the room by 12K, easily dominating the 'lesser' quarters.

::It does require that there be a significant difference; having them at roughly equal worth will cause unhappy thoughts, which was my problem in my most recent fortress. I just housed all my nobles in the same residential stack as everyone else, adding extra room additions off the main design for offices, dining rooms, etc. The Count's room was a LITTLE better as his walls happened to be ore-bearing, but it wasn't enough to please him, hence the statue.--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:04, 7 January 2009 (EST)
:::Alright, I've put the artefact cabinet back in my mayor's room, and now will proceed to test this principle by making the Queen's rooms incredibly nice. I'm going to start by replacing all her furniture with gold and platinum, and move up from there.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 15:49, 7 January 2009 (EST)
::::You may have a long way to go. Artifact furniture can easily be 50 or 60K, whereas the most expensive single piece of furniture I've ever been able to produce is a masterwork platinum statue, which is 12K. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:36, 7 January 2009 (EST)

::::While you can't order artifacts dumped, you can apparently order them forbidden. So maybe you could forbid it and then move the creator's quarters elsewhere, leaving the original one vacant. Or maybe you could make them temporary quarters elsewhere, wait for them to move the artifact, then forbid it and move them back. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:22, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Noble upgrade size. ==

I have a count still event though I have 148 dwarves. Could it be dependant on more than just the 140, or is it different now? [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 21:55, 11 February 2009 (EST)

: I'm at 188 dwarves still with a count not a duke. Could there be a dependancy on metal jobs? Other than melting down the goblin metal, I don't have any metal jobs going. [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 10:47, 14 February 2009 (EST)

I just had a peasant give birth to a baby. This put my population at 110, and I immediately got a message that my fortress had been made into a county. So, I will remove the "verify" tags from the count/count consort promotion info.--[[User:Scrotch|Scrotch]] 18:59, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

::I'm certain that exports are a requirement. Remember that only wealth you have created can count as exports, trading goblin items won't raise the number. If you can't offer it, it doesn't count. I had a fortress with 140+ dwarves that jumped up to a barony from nothing when I started exporting. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 20:03, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Failure to comply ==

I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet, but what happens if you don't give a noble the room he/she requires? I know they get unhappy thoughts, but is that all? Will they punish anyone? Or just start throwing tantrums? Next useless noble I get is sleeping in the barracks. On the floor.
:Unhappy thoughts? I don't think there is any repercusions. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:26, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::Unhappy nobles means more mandates, more demands and harsher sentences. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 20:04, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I just read this and checked my noble's happiness levels and justice levels, and even though they all seem ecstatic lately I have someone who's being jailed for 64 days, which I think is pretty extreme. I have been fulfilling hardly any of their mandates though, so perhaps jail time is related more to mandates than happiness?[[User:Gnavin|Gnavin]] 14:29, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

== Why Nobles Exist: ==

Nobles exist because Dwarven government is a feudal system; the fortress is just a semi-autonomous local government which must still answer to the King, and here's why:
::Long ago in the Age of Myth, the King's ancestor was legendary +5 in every military skill and took control of everything, killing all who resisted. His descendants are now <s>fat, lazy, whoremongering, good for nothing slobs</s> not as <s>cool</s> personally strong as he was, but they still technically own everything, including "your" fortress. The expedition that went to "colonize the King's land" did so with his permission, <s>usually given while drunk</s>. When your fortress becomes large enough that it can no longer <s>avoid notice</s> govern itself "properly", the King sends one of his <s>drinking mates</s> representatives to <s>screw up</s> "manage" the fortress. The nobles hold the authority of the King, and so there every <s>ridiculous</s> <s>stupid</s> <s>impossible</s> "reasonable" mandate "MUST" be obeyed. --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 12:37 17 August, 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Noble

2009-10-14T09:18:55Z

Aykavil: /* Room requirements */

== Nobles affected by Reclaiming? ==

My current fortress is a reclaimed one, due to a fire that got into one of my guardtowers' food storage. In the old fortress, I had managed to get a Baron, who was soon skipping right up to Duke and Incoming king after a couple of immigrants. Well, after reclaiming, I proceeded as normal, except, even though my value is still incredibly high from the fortress (1 million+ created wealth, and 400k exported, now), I recieved a count within it's specified area of requirement, but not the Baron before. Even still, My Count does not seem to be upgrading to Duke anytime soon, seeing as I have 188 dwarves, now. Anyone have any ideas, now? [[User:Jwguy|Jwguy]] 12:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

== Noble Additions and Requirements ==

Added the dungeon keeper noble. He just showed up at my fort in year 1053. --[[Idles]]

I'm "fixing" the change, "16:59, 31 October 2007 Lightning4 (Talk | contribs) (1,934 bytes) (→Appointments - Isn't called bookkeeper, at least when the fortress is new.)", because in my forts it IS called bookkeeper when the fortress starts. Other edits have backed me up, suspect editor was confused--Please discuss this here? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 15:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I apologize, I was indeed incorrect. You do start with a Bookkeeper, which in very short order can be upgraded to a Treasurer. Unsure of requirements, possibly only requires 20 dwarves like the sheriff. My fortress has one and I haven't even done anything besides changed who had bookkeeping and set it to higher priority (did not build study yet). That's probably what got me confused since the bookkeeper upgrades very quickly. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 18:11, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::Yeah, 20 dwarves sounds accurate enough to put in there. He didn't turn when I had only 17. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 18:14, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

"Your original expedition leader will be the fourth dwarf down in the starting screen(the one in the middle)." This does not seem to hold true; I have a newly-developed habit of making the last dwarf on the screen (used to be my designated hauler-peasant) into the administrator, with all the social skills for filling the four starter noble roles. He gets auto-assigned to all four administrative positions; I'm thinking that instead of being fixed or random, the starting assignment is based on social skills. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 00:29, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

I had a Philosopher show up last night. I'm unsure of the requirement to get him; the only really notable thing that had happened was I got over 100 dwarves. I'm adding him to the list of Nobles, though, since I can confirm he still exists in the new version. I also divided the page structure between Appointed and Immigrant nobles, since the current header was misleading (Dungeon Master and Philosopher cannot be appointed). --[[User:Zurai|Zurai]] 20:55, 10 November 2007 (EST)

I had the king show up tonight. "The King arrives, dressed as a peasant." I have no idea what the requirements were. I missed the 1051 and 1052 dwarf caravans due to prolonged sieges, and had no immigrants those years. 1053 I had the caravan; a season later a wave of immigration brought my total dwarves up to 37. In the spring the king arrived, along with enough others to bring the population to 63. At that time I was notified that the Captain of the Guard position was available. Only thing I can think is that I hit adamantine during the siege years, and mistakenly built a number of ridiculously valuable adamantine objects. (Door, Coffin, etc.) This has raised my fortress value to 1.3 million. Is 1 million value perhaps the trigger? I have no coins, and no nobles other than the starting 4 positions. I did not appoint a sheriff. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:15, 15 November 2007 (EST)
:In the last version, hitting adamantine without proper requirement for the king triggered the reaction of having the king arrive dressed as a paysant. Maybe it's the same here. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 04:20, 15 November 2007 (EST)
== What determines expedition leader? ==

There are a number of situations to test out:
* No social skills on any dwarves
** ''Probably random, possibly based on the Dwarf's thoughts and preferences''
* Majority of social skills on one dwarf (various positions in start order)
** ''Test case 1: only one dwarf has social skills - gives that dwarf as leader and all positions''
* Social skills spread between multiple dwarves
** Is there any weight on which skill determines the leader?
--[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 01:25, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Is the first point certain? In my current fortress, I didn't assign any social skills to any dwarf, and I'm pretty certain that the dwarf that ended up expedition leader was the seventh in the list. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 02:28, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::In my current fort I assigned no social skills and the first dwarf in the list, one of my miners, is the expedition leader. --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:40, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:::Might be randomised then, I started three new fortresses for the test and each time it was the same so I made an assumption. Obviously this isn't the case can you two check what thoughts/prefs you have for those so we can look for some leadership criteria. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 08:10, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::::It's almost always been the first dwarf for me (assuming no one had leadership skills), but I could have sworn one time it assigned someone else. Maybe it defaults to the first dwarf on the list but can sometimes choose someone else under certain conditions. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 22:29, 10 November 2007 (EST)
:::::Perhaps the first dwarf didn't get it because of negative preferences? Some dwarves have a line in their thoughts/prefs that reads something like "X prefers to let others take leadership roles". [[User:Tocky|Tocky]] 11:04, 11 November 2007 (EST)

==Room requirements==
Maybe something about the nobles requiring better rooms and how to build them? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:15, 4 November 2007 (EST)
:Found it in [[room]]s, adding a link. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:34, 4 November 2007 (EST)

The [[How do I increase the value of a room quickly and easily]] page seems to be a pretty helpful page, but so far what links to it may not be much help when someone is in a pinch with their nobles ([[Door]], [[Room]], [[Furniture]] and the [[Frequently Asked Questions]]). After all, I assume that page exists for that constant problem with nobles where your new Duke requests a "Grand" dining room and DAMMIT, the best you can do is a "Decent" dining room and that sweet, kick-ass, dolomite dining table with the chrysoberyls the image of a dwarf striking down a goblin isn't ready yet because your legendary Gem Setter is "Attending Party". So perhaps a link on the Nobles page should also exist? [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 15:07, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

:New pages are largely useless without links - feel free! If you see a need, then, by definition, there is one.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:11, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

The room requirement for consorts is not clear. Seeing that they are married, don't they share a single bedroom with their spouse? Is this an exception to the law of marriage? The same questions hold for dining rooms and tombs. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 09:18, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

== Not 100? ==

I just received migrants. My population went from 76 to 100, and my settlement went from a village to a town. No nobles arrived with the migrants. [[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:14, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:Still a town at 108
:Another wave, and we're a city at 111 (migrants still incoming)
::My population went from 101 to 126 in one wave. A Baroness arrived at the same time and turned my settlement into a Barony. Shortly afterwards, my settlement turned into a County (125+ dwarves?). Then Baroness upgraded into a Countess. Baron consort upgraded to a Count Consort.--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 16:49, 19 November 2007 (EST)
::Next immigration wave, my pop hit 138. Nothing happens. Then next immigration wave, my pop hits 141, the Countess upgrades to Duchess and the Count Consort upgrades to Duke Consort. Also, "Incoming King" is the top line on the Nobles screen. When you select it, it shows you what you need to achieve in terms of 1. architecture value (15000) 2. road value (5000) and 3. offerings value. (5000). I'm not sure what criteria triggers the King as it happened at the same time as my Duchess. I did just hit 200k exported wealth. Conincedence? --[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 10:27, 20 November 2007 (EST)
::Another wave, jumped to 161 pop, and some more nobles, a Duke and his Duke Consort. Now I have both a Duke and Duchess!--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 14:06, 20 November 2007 (EST)
:I was made a city and a barony at 110, and promoted to county almost immediately after. No new immigration happened, and I hadn't reached the 120 mark yet. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 16:27, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:The last immigration wave brought me from 98 to a total of 124 including baron/consort, tax collector and hammerer. It is now a City and a Barony. I'll watch out if it changes on the first immigrant from the next wave.I currently have over 500k created wealth and 17000 exported.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:05, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:One child is born and now my total population is 125. Still a City and a Barony.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:23, 25 November 2007 (EST)
:My fortress was upgraded to County when the caravan left the map and my exported wealth leaped from 17k to 26k. The trigger for the County must be either 20k or 25k exported wealth. --[[User:Another|Another]] 12:47, 25 November 2007 (EST)
::Baron arrived during an immigration wave going from 88 to 112 dwarves, and upgraded to a Count not long after arrival but ''not'' immediately either (perhaps as the population went over 100?). Exported wealth was probably around 50k at the time. Now at 119 (and 80k exported) and not yet a Duke. Looks like there's a combination of factors involved. [[User:Cim|Cim]] 11:10, 14 December 2007 (EST)
:Upgrade of the fortress to Duchy was at exactly 140th dwarf from an immigration wave. "The Incoming King" included. Total created wealth - 950k, total exported - 30k.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:37, 1 December 2007 (EST)
: My Baron arrived in the immigration wave that took me over 100 (I had peaked at 96 previously) but this was also the season where I crossed the 50,000 threshold on exported wealth. I actually went from 48,000 to 62,000 over the course of the year, and the baron arrived in the Spring, I did have an immigration wave after crossing 50,000 in the fall. Almost immediately after my baron arrived, he was promoted to count. My population is 119. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 16:41, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:At exported wealth 45k, my Baron promoted to Count at the 110th immigrant. (Baron arrived in the first immigration wave after getting 80 population, can't remember what exported wealth was then) [[User:Cim|Cim]] 20:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:Population at 93 no Baron. Next wave - first person to arrive is a Countess, with this wave population went to 114. (So, had no Baron at all) --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:39, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Verified about 140 limit for Duke. My Wrestler have given birth to a boy, the populationd got to 140, and the next message is about the fortress becoming a capital of Duchy. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:10, 24 January 2008 (EST)

== Queen As Peasant ==

I had dug out some raw adamantine, not done anything with it, and I got a notification that 'Your ruler has arrived disguised as a peasant.' At the same time, my Dungeon Master arrived. I don't have an announcement in the log about the Queen, but I do about the DM. I'm treating her like it's legit, what's the deal?

:Your ruler has heard of the discovery of adamantine, and hurried to yuor fort to oversee the digging. She turned up "disguised as a peasant" because your fort doesn't meet the regular requirements for attracting the monarch and moving to your site officially would be embarassing (in roleplaying/story terms of course). She's perfectly legit, just wasn't attracted in the "conventional" sense by having the largest, wealthiest fort in the civilisation you belong to.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:42, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Baron mandates "crowns"? ==

I just got a baron, and the first thing he mandates is two crowns. So i type Crown into the jobs/manager list. nothing. So I type crown in dwarf wiki. Nothing. Can anyone help before I have to drop this noble into a pit to keep him from locking up my crafters?
:Info about specific crafts isn't present in the new wiki, but a crown is in fact a "craft" item. [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Craftsdwarf%27s_Workshop#Crafts You can see the old wiki info about crafts here]. You'll probably need to set several crafting jobs to get a crown since the item produced by a crafting task is random with several possibilities. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:06, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Killing nobles ? ==

Is killing nobles dangerous ? (does it stop immigrations or something ?)

Because I've got a Count totally uncontrolable, who can't stop throwing tantrums in the middle of my fortress, which is somewhat tiresome... So, if I just can lock him into his bedroom and let him starve to death, it would be great, but I don't know if it won't cause more problems..

(Also, sorry for my bad english, I'm french)
[[User:Timst|Timst]] 05:40, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:Killing off your nobles only really has the penalties associated with killing any other dwarf - their friends and family will be upset, and you lose that dwarf's abilities. In the case of nobles a replacement will usually turn up with the next migrant wave, unless your fort no longer meets the requirements for that noble. You can, of course, kill the replacement too - with lesser repercussions as he won't have had time to make any friends yet.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:38, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::Ok, thanks :) I was afraid that the death of a count could induct a reaction of the mountainhomes or something like that... If the only reaction will be the one of the countess, it will be ok :) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 07:00, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:::In the future, killing off a noble will have repercussions, however, so don't depend on that behaviour forever. ;-)
:::''Req291, NOBLE DEATH, (Future): Killing off nobles needs to have serious consequences. Once the counties (see Core28) are in, there could be revolts from the village if the count is popular. Other nobles could have angry relatives. Losing your law enforcement nobles could lead to more tantrums and other acts in large fortresses. Nobles should all be upset by the death of the tax collector. When a noble is buried, other dwarves could be sealed in the tomb.''
:::--[[User:JT|JT]] 15:11, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::::This doesn't sound like it has much effect on a "kill early, kill often" approach — e.g. preparing their death room immediately upon their arrival, and luring them in via a profile-set lever pull job. The count won't be popular (at least in your fort) if nobody knows him, unless he's popular by reputation or something. Angry relatives? If they show up friendly but ready to tantrum, I draft / lure them into killing rooms; if they're hostile, I deal with them like a siege. Nobles all being upset by the tax collector means nothing if I've killed all the nobles. And it's not like I'm going to make tombs for them, either. Only the law enforcement one looks like an issue.

::::On the other hand, maybe that's the point — you're penalised if you just randomly kill nobles because you don't like them, but you're also allowed to run a "screw the nobility, we're a free communal fortress" game (or have a "kill the entire current regime, we want a revolution" event) so long as you actively enforce it. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:02, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

: Another issue that can pop up is killing your Baron/Count/Duke, their spouse will stick around and remain a noble even after the replacement and their spouse has shown up. On one fortress my count had 3 Countess Consorts, one was his wife and the other 2 were leftovers from the previous 2 counts. One Baron happened to be standing under a drawbridge as it came down (don't ask what a drawbridge was doing in his room, lets just say he wasn't going to get that rock crystal item he wanted) and his widow was promoted to Countess Consort when the new Count showed up to replace him a few seasons later. That Count was tending a farm when a squad of gobs beat the living tar out of him and his widow remained a Countess Consort even after the third noble arrived to replace the dead Count. They all still make demands/mandates and still require rooms/tombs and all that as before. [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 20:55, 18 January 2009 (EST)

== Selling Nobles ==
<tt>╔═╦═╗</tt> Unlock doors, assign lever to noble, order lever pulled. 
<tt>║ò┼^┼</tt> Wait for noble to stand on cage trap, lock both doors. 
<tt>╚═╩═╝</tt> Wait for noble to fall asleep, sell caged noble to elves. 
:Sorry for the crude drawing. My wiki format skills are weak. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 14:36, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:Eh... except for the small known bug where trying to haul an occupied cage to the trading depot results in whatever is caged being freed and the empty cage being brought in. But once they fix that bug, maybe. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:30, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

::I've been trying to sell my dwarves for ages, as a 'clean' approach to dealing with nobles and unwanted immigration. Sadly, they always seem to die of thirst first. If I let them out just once to drink, they die of hunger. Maybe if I let them out twice... but that's a lot of effort. Better to just let them die, unless they're very popular or something. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Selling to the Elves? That's too cruel, even for nobles! Don't you know that the Elves are '''Cannibals!?!''' --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 12:45 17 August 2009 (EST)
::::[ENTITY:FOREST]
:::::[CREATURE:ELF]
:::::[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]

::::::Actually, they're not cannibals. That would state that they would eat each other if they killed each other. This is only that they'll eat the dead that they kill themselves, and as killing each other in their society is not acceptable they won't eat each other, however, if the Sapient_other tag was set to acceptable they might end up eating each other if they die by any means. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 20:16, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

== Category? ==

I would do this myself if I knew how, but perhaps someone should make a noble category, with all the noble related articles (Unfortunate accident, mandate, types of nobles, etc) in it. I think it would be useful. [[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 20:53, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

==Nobles Working==

Actually, nobles not only gather harvest if you put all dwarves harvest on, but they also help demolishing constructed walls.=--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 00:53, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:Thanks, I'll add that to [[labor]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

==Arrival Requirements Verified==
Ok, I just had the Baroness, Hammerer, and Tax Collector arrive simultaneously with no other dwarves. I'm playing with a population cap of 50, and births (plus overflow of last immigration wave) has finally taken me up to exactly 80 dwarves. Despite the population cap, the Baroness, Tax Collector, and Hammerer arrived by themselves.

<s>Note that the Baroness Consort has not arrived, presumably because he takes the place of a normal dwarf during the immigration wave and can't be generated in violation of the population cap (whereas the other three can).</s> nevermind, he just showed up.

I should also note that I earlier had the King arrive as a peasant by himself despite being at the population cap. He also brought no consort nor advisor (although I've never had him arrive as a peasant before, so I don't know if that's normal).

I have not seen a philosopher as of yet.

As my fortress wealth is past 8 million at this point, I think its safe to say I can rule that out as a cause (having seen them at much lower wealth in default pop cap games).

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:30, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:I had the usual five nobles show up once in an immigration wave that took me over 80 dwarves, and promptly killed them, along with most of the immigrants. I subsequently set my population max to 50. My current population (minus nobles) is 69, yet those same nobles continue to show up every few seasons, suggesting that once you become a barony (80 pop, initial baron/ess arrival), they'll continue to show up again, regardless of your current status. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:10, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

==Noble demands==

I currently have a Baroness demanding "item in Dining Room". Any idea what could satisfy this? I tried a bismuth bronze statue, no luck. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 00:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

: This is a bug. Check # 000491 @ http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 00:47, 5 January 2009 (EST)

==Pretentious Arrangements==

Thoughts about a lesser's pretentious <whatever> arrangements seem to be a common source of noble unhappiness. (this is especially annoying for me as my mayor has an artifact in her bedroom raising it to Royal and my queen has no list of likes and dislikes, so I can't make her happy just by having the right booze) it would be interesting to know what exactly causes the difference between "upset" and "shattered", how to avoid it, and good ways to mitigate it's effects. I might have to do some research on my old fort to check this myself. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 13:58, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:Well, I suspect that the difference is related to the difference in room value, although I suppose that's stating the obvious. Another obvious solution would be to move the artefact into the higher-ranked Noble's room, assuming that's possible. Otherwise, I suppose the simplest (if not the easiest) way to mitigate its effects is to add as much value as possible to the Queen's room. As well as furniture, you can get surprising results with smoothings, engravings, and building an expensive floor over the engraved one if you have no qualms about exploiting such strangeness.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:07, 6 January 2009 (EST)
::I can confirm it's the difference between relative worth. I kept getting these annoying messages in my count + consort until I stuffed a platinum statue in their rooms. Obviously, this increased the worth of the room by 12K, easily dominating the 'lesser' quarters.

::It does require that there be a significant difference; having them at roughly equal worth will cause unhappy thoughts, which was my problem in my most recent fortress. I just housed all my nobles in the same residential stack as everyone else, adding extra room additions off the main design for offices, dining rooms, etc. The Count's room was a LITTLE better as his walls happened to be ore-bearing, but it wasn't enough to please him, hence the statue.--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:04, 7 January 2009 (EST)
:::Alright, I've put the artefact cabinet back in my mayor's room, and now will proceed to test this principle by making the Queen's rooms incredibly nice. I'm going to start by replacing all her furniture with gold and platinum, and move up from there.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 15:49, 7 January 2009 (EST)
::::You may have a long way to go. Artifact furniture can easily be 50 or 60K, whereas the most expensive single piece of furniture I've ever been able to produce is a masterwork platinum statue, which is 12K. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:36, 7 January 2009 (EST)

::::While you can't order artifacts dumped, you can apparently order them forbidden. So maybe you could forbid it and then move the creator's quarters elsewhere, leaving the original one vacant. Or maybe you could make them temporary quarters elsewhere, wait for them to move the artifact, then forbid it and move them back. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:22, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Noble upgrade size. ==

I have a count still event though I have 148 dwarves. Could it be dependant on more than just the 140, or is it different now? [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 21:55, 11 February 2009 (EST)

: I'm at 188 dwarves still with a count not a duke. Could there be a dependancy on metal jobs? Other than melting down the goblin metal, I don't have any metal jobs going. [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 10:47, 14 February 2009 (EST)

I just had a peasant give birth to a baby. This put my population at 110, and I immediately got a message that my fortress had been made into a county. So, I will remove the "verify" tags from the count/count consort promotion info.--[[User:Scrotch|Scrotch]] 18:59, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

::I'm certain that exports are a requirement. Remember that only wealth you have created can count as exports, trading goblin items won't raise the number. If you can't offer it, it doesn't count. I had a fortress with 140+ dwarves that jumped up to a barony from nothing when I started exporting. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 20:03, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Failure to comply ==

I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet, but what happens if you don't give a noble the room he/she requires? I know they get unhappy thoughts, but is that all? Will they punish anyone? Or just start throwing tantrums? Next useless noble I get is sleeping in the barracks. On the floor.
:Unhappy thoughts? I don't think there is any repercusions. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:26, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::Unhappy nobles means more mandates, more demands and harsher sentences. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 20:04, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I just read this and checked my noble's happiness levels and justice levels, and even though they all seem ecstatic lately I have someone who's being jailed for 64 days, which I think is pretty extreme. I have been fulfilling hardly any of their mandates though, so perhaps jail time is related more to mandates than happiness?[[User:Gnavin|Gnavin]] 14:29, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

== Why Nobles Exist: ==

Nobles exist because Dwarven government is a feudal system; the fortress is just a semi-autonomous local government which must still answer to the King, and here's why:
::Long ago in the Age of Myth, the King's ancestor was legendary +5 in every military skill and took control of everything, killing all who resisted. His descendants are now <s>fat, lazy, whoremongering, good for nothing slobs</s> not as <s>cool</s> personally strong as he was, but they still technically own everything, including "your" fortress. The expedition that went to "colonize the King's land" did so with his permission, <s>usually given while drunk</s>. When your fortress becomes large enough that it can no longer <s>avoid notice</s> govern itself "properly", the King sends one of his <s>drinking mates</s> representatives to <s>screw up</s> "manage" the fortress. The nobles hold the authority of the King, and so there every <s>ridiculous</s> <s>stupid</s> <s>impossible</s> "reasonable" mandate "MUST" be obeyed. --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 12:37 17 August, 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Noble

2009-10-14T09:14:20Z

Aykavil: Removed outdated comment from me.

== Nobles affected by Reclaiming? ==

My current fortress is a reclaimed one, due to a fire that got into one of my guardtowers' food storage. In the old fortress, I had managed to get a Baron, who was soon skipping right up to Duke and Incoming king after a couple of immigrants. Well, after reclaiming, I proceeded as normal, except, even though my value is still incredibly high from the fortress (1 million+ created wealth, and 400k exported, now), I recieved a count within it's specified area of requirement, but not the Baron before. Even still, My Count does not seem to be upgrading to Duke anytime soon, seeing as I have 188 dwarves, now. Anyone have any ideas, now? [[User:Jwguy|Jwguy]] 12:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

== Noble Additions and Requirements ==

Added the dungeon keeper noble. He just showed up at my fort in year 1053. --[[Idles]]

I'm "fixing" the change, "16:59, 31 October 2007 Lightning4 (Talk | contribs) (1,934 bytes) (→Appointments - Isn't called bookkeeper, at least when the fortress is new.)", because in my forts it IS called bookkeeper when the fortress starts. Other edits have backed me up, suspect editor was confused--Please discuss this here? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 15:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I apologize, I was indeed incorrect. You do start with a Bookkeeper, which in very short order can be upgraded to a Treasurer. Unsure of requirements, possibly only requires 20 dwarves like the sheriff. My fortress has one and I haven't even done anything besides changed who had bookkeeping and set it to higher priority (did not build study yet). That's probably what got me confused since the bookkeeper upgrades very quickly. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 18:11, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::Yeah, 20 dwarves sounds accurate enough to put in there. He didn't turn when I had only 17. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 18:14, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

"Your original expedition leader will be the fourth dwarf down in the starting screen(the one in the middle)." This does not seem to hold true; I have a newly-developed habit of making the last dwarf on the screen (used to be my designated hauler-peasant) into the administrator, with all the social skills for filling the four starter noble roles. He gets auto-assigned to all four administrative positions; I'm thinking that instead of being fixed or random, the starting assignment is based on social skills. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 00:29, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

I had a Philosopher show up last night. I'm unsure of the requirement to get him; the only really notable thing that had happened was I got over 100 dwarves. I'm adding him to the list of Nobles, though, since I can confirm he still exists in the new version. I also divided the page structure between Appointed and Immigrant nobles, since the current header was misleading (Dungeon Master and Philosopher cannot be appointed). --[[User:Zurai|Zurai]] 20:55, 10 November 2007 (EST)

I had the king show up tonight. "The King arrives, dressed as a peasant." I have no idea what the requirements were. I missed the 1051 and 1052 dwarf caravans due to prolonged sieges, and had no immigrants those years. 1053 I had the caravan; a season later a wave of immigration brought my total dwarves up to 37. In the spring the king arrived, along with enough others to bring the population to 63. At that time I was notified that the Captain of the Guard position was available. Only thing I can think is that I hit adamantine during the siege years, and mistakenly built a number of ridiculously valuable adamantine objects. (Door, Coffin, etc.) This has raised my fortress value to 1.3 million. Is 1 million value perhaps the trigger? I have no coins, and no nobles other than the starting 4 positions. I did not appoint a sheriff. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:15, 15 November 2007 (EST)
:In the last version, hitting adamantine without proper requirement for the king triggered the reaction of having the king arrive dressed as a paysant. Maybe it's the same here. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 04:20, 15 November 2007 (EST)
== What determines expedition leader? ==

There are a number of situations to test out:
* No social skills on any dwarves
** ''Probably random, possibly based on the Dwarf's thoughts and preferences''
* Majority of social skills on one dwarf (various positions in start order)
** ''Test case 1: only one dwarf has social skills - gives that dwarf as leader and all positions''
* Social skills spread between multiple dwarves
** Is there any weight on which skill determines the leader?
--[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 01:25, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Is the first point certain? In my current fortress, I didn't assign any social skills to any dwarf, and I'm pretty certain that the dwarf that ended up expedition leader was the seventh in the list. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 02:28, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::In my current fort I assigned no social skills and the first dwarf in the list, one of my miners, is the expedition leader. --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:40, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:::Might be randomised then, I started three new fortresses for the test and each time it was the same so I made an assumption. Obviously this isn't the case can you two check what thoughts/prefs you have for those so we can look for some leadership criteria. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 08:10, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::::It's almost always been the first dwarf for me (assuming no one had leadership skills), but I could have sworn one time it assigned someone else. Maybe it defaults to the first dwarf on the list but can sometimes choose someone else under certain conditions. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 22:29, 10 November 2007 (EST)
:::::Perhaps the first dwarf didn't get it because of negative preferences? Some dwarves have a line in their thoughts/prefs that reads something like "X prefers to let others take leadership roles". [[User:Tocky|Tocky]] 11:04, 11 November 2007 (EST)

==Room requirements==
Maybe something about the nobles requiring better rooms and how to build them? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:15, 4 November 2007 (EST)
:Found it in [[room]]s, adding a link. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:34, 4 November 2007 (EST)

The [[How do I increase the value of a room quickly and easily]] page seems to be a pretty helpful page, but so far what links to it may not be much help when someone is in a pinch with their nobles ([[Door]], [[Room]], [[Furniture]] and the [[Frequently Asked Questions]]). After all, I assume that page exists for that constant problem with nobles where your new Duke requests a "Grand" dining room and DAMMIT, the best you can do is a "Decent" dining room and that sweet, kick-ass, dolomite dining table with the chrysoberyls the image of a dwarf striking down a goblin isn't ready yet because your legendary Gem Setter is "Attending Party". So perhaps a link on the Nobles page should also exist? [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 15:07, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

:New pages are largely useless without links - feel free! If you see a need, then, by definition, there is one.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:11, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

== Not 100? ==

I just received migrants. My population went from 76 to 100, and my settlement went from a village to a town. No nobles arrived with the migrants. [[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:14, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:Still a town at 108
:Another wave, and we're a city at 111 (migrants still incoming)
::My population went from 101 to 126 in one wave. A Baroness arrived at the same time and turned my settlement into a Barony. Shortly afterwards, my settlement turned into a County (125+ dwarves?). Then Baroness upgraded into a Countess. Baron consort upgraded to a Count Consort.--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 16:49, 19 November 2007 (EST)
::Next immigration wave, my pop hit 138. Nothing happens. Then next immigration wave, my pop hits 141, the Countess upgrades to Duchess and the Count Consort upgrades to Duke Consort. Also, "Incoming King" is the top line on the Nobles screen. When you select it, it shows you what you need to achieve in terms of 1. architecture value (15000) 2. road value (5000) and 3. offerings value. (5000). I'm not sure what criteria triggers the King as it happened at the same time as my Duchess. I did just hit 200k exported wealth. Conincedence? --[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 10:27, 20 November 2007 (EST)
::Another wave, jumped to 161 pop, and some more nobles, a Duke and his Duke Consort. Now I have both a Duke and Duchess!--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 14:06, 20 November 2007 (EST)
:I was made a city and a barony at 110, and promoted to county almost immediately after. No new immigration happened, and I hadn't reached the 120 mark yet. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 16:27, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:The last immigration wave brought me from 98 to a total of 124 including baron/consort, tax collector and hammerer. It is now a City and a Barony. I'll watch out if it changes on the first immigrant from the next wave.I currently have over 500k created wealth and 17000 exported.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:05, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:One child is born and now my total population is 125. Still a City and a Barony.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:23, 25 November 2007 (EST)
:My fortress was upgraded to County when the caravan left the map and my exported wealth leaped from 17k to 26k. The trigger for the County must be either 20k or 25k exported wealth. --[[User:Another|Another]] 12:47, 25 November 2007 (EST)
::Baron arrived during an immigration wave going from 88 to 112 dwarves, and upgraded to a Count not long after arrival but ''not'' immediately either (perhaps as the population went over 100?). Exported wealth was probably around 50k at the time. Now at 119 (and 80k exported) and not yet a Duke. Looks like there's a combination of factors involved. [[User:Cim|Cim]] 11:10, 14 December 2007 (EST)
:Upgrade of the fortress to Duchy was at exactly 140th dwarf from an immigration wave. "The Incoming King" included. Total created wealth - 950k, total exported - 30k.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:37, 1 December 2007 (EST)
: My Baron arrived in the immigration wave that took me over 100 (I had peaked at 96 previously) but this was also the season where I crossed the 50,000 threshold on exported wealth. I actually went from 48,000 to 62,000 over the course of the year, and the baron arrived in the Spring, I did have an immigration wave after crossing 50,000 in the fall. Almost immediately after my baron arrived, he was promoted to count. My population is 119. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 16:41, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:At exported wealth 45k, my Baron promoted to Count at the 110th immigrant. (Baron arrived in the first immigration wave after getting 80 population, can't remember what exported wealth was then) [[User:Cim|Cim]] 20:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:Population at 93 no Baron. Next wave - first person to arrive is a Countess, with this wave population went to 114. (So, had no Baron at all) --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:39, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Verified about 140 limit for Duke. My Wrestler have given birth to a boy, the populationd got to 140, and the next message is about the fortress becoming a capital of Duchy. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:10, 24 January 2008 (EST)

== Queen As Peasant ==

I had dug out some raw adamantine, not done anything with it, and I got a notification that 'Your ruler has arrived disguised as a peasant.' At the same time, my Dungeon Master arrived. I don't have an announcement in the log about the Queen, but I do about the DM. I'm treating her like it's legit, what's the deal?

:Your ruler has heard of the discovery of adamantine, and hurried to yuor fort to oversee the digging. She turned up "disguised as a peasant" because your fort doesn't meet the regular requirements for attracting the monarch and moving to your site officially would be embarassing (in roleplaying/story terms of course). She's perfectly legit, just wasn't attracted in the "conventional" sense by having the largest, wealthiest fort in the civilisation you belong to.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:42, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Baron mandates "crowns"? ==

I just got a baron, and the first thing he mandates is two crowns. So i type Crown into the jobs/manager list. nothing. So I type crown in dwarf wiki. Nothing. Can anyone help before I have to drop this noble into a pit to keep him from locking up my crafters?
:Info about specific crafts isn't present in the new wiki, but a crown is in fact a "craft" item. [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Craftsdwarf%27s_Workshop#Crafts You can see the old wiki info about crafts here]. You'll probably need to set several crafting jobs to get a crown since the item produced by a crafting task is random with several possibilities. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:06, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Killing nobles ? ==

Is killing nobles dangerous ? (does it stop immigrations or something ?)

Because I've got a Count totally uncontrolable, who can't stop throwing tantrums in the middle of my fortress, which is somewhat tiresome... So, if I just can lock him into his bedroom and let him starve to death, it would be great, but I don't know if it won't cause more problems..

(Also, sorry for my bad english, I'm french)
[[User:Timst|Timst]] 05:40, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:Killing off your nobles only really has the penalties associated with killing any other dwarf - their friends and family will be upset, and you lose that dwarf's abilities. In the case of nobles a replacement will usually turn up with the next migrant wave, unless your fort no longer meets the requirements for that noble. You can, of course, kill the replacement too - with lesser repercussions as he won't have had time to make any friends yet.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:38, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::Ok, thanks :) I was afraid that the death of a count could induct a reaction of the mountainhomes or something like that... If the only reaction will be the one of the countess, it will be ok :) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 07:00, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:::In the future, killing off a noble will have repercussions, however, so don't depend on that behaviour forever. ;-)
:::''Req291, NOBLE DEATH, (Future): Killing off nobles needs to have serious consequences. Once the counties (see Core28) are in, there could be revolts from the village if the count is popular. Other nobles could have angry relatives. Losing your law enforcement nobles could lead to more tantrums and other acts in large fortresses. Nobles should all be upset by the death of the tax collector. When a noble is buried, other dwarves could be sealed in the tomb.''
:::--[[User:JT|JT]] 15:11, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::::This doesn't sound like it has much effect on a "kill early, kill often" approach — e.g. preparing their death room immediately upon their arrival, and luring them in via a profile-set lever pull job. The count won't be popular (at least in your fort) if nobody knows him, unless he's popular by reputation or something. Angry relatives? If they show up friendly but ready to tantrum, I draft / lure them into killing rooms; if they're hostile, I deal with them like a siege. Nobles all being upset by the tax collector means nothing if I've killed all the nobles. And it's not like I'm going to make tombs for them, either. Only the law enforcement one looks like an issue.

::::On the other hand, maybe that's the point — you're penalised if you just randomly kill nobles because you don't like them, but you're also allowed to run a "screw the nobility, we're a free communal fortress" game (or have a "kill the entire current regime, we want a revolution" event) so long as you actively enforce it. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:02, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

: Another issue that can pop up is killing your Baron/Count/Duke, their spouse will stick around and remain a noble even after the replacement and their spouse has shown up. On one fortress my count had 3 Countess Consorts, one was his wife and the other 2 were leftovers from the previous 2 counts. One Baron happened to be standing under a drawbridge as it came down (don't ask what a drawbridge was doing in his room, lets just say he wasn't going to get that rock crystal item he wanted) and his widow was promoted to Countess Consort when the new Count showed up to replace him a few seasons later. That Count was tending a farm when a squad of gobs beat the living tar out of him and his widow remained a Countess Consort even after the third noble arrived to replace the dead Count. They all still make demands/mandates and still require rooms/tombs and all that as before. [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 20:55, 18 January 2009 (EST)

== Selling Nobles ==
<tt>╔═╦═╗</tt> Unlock doors, assign lever to noble, order lever pulled. 
<tt>║ò┼^┼</tt> Wait for noble to stand on cage trap, lock both doors. 
<tt>╚═╩═╝</tt> Wait for noble to fall asleep, sell caged noble to elves. 
:Sorry for the crude drawing. My wiki format skills are weak. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 14:36, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:Eh... except for the small known bug where trying to haul an occupied cage to the trading depot results in whatever is caged being freed and the empty cage being brought in. But once they fix that bug, maybe. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:30, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

::I've been trying to sell my dwarves for ages, as a 'clean' approach to dealing with nobles and unwanted immigration. Sadly, they always seem to die of thirst first. If I let them out just once to drink, they die of hunger. Maybe if I let them out twice... but that's a lot of effort. Better to just let them die, unless they're very popular or something. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Selling to the Elves? That's too cruel, even for nobles! Don't you know that the Elves are '''Cannibals!?!''' --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 12:45 17 August 2009 (EST)
::::[ENTITY:FOREST]
:::::[CREATURE:ELF]
:::::[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]

::::::Actually, they're not cannibals. That would state that they would eat each other if they killed each other. This is only that they'll eat the dead that they kill themselves, and as killing each other in their society is not acceptable they won't eat each other, however, if the Sapient_other tag was set to acceptable they might end up eating each other if they die by any means. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 20:16, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

== Category? ==

I would do this myself if I knew how, but perhaps someone should make a noble category, with all the noble related articles (Unfortunate accident, mandate, types of nobles, etc) in it. I think it would be useful. [[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 20:53, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

==Nobles Working==

Actually, nobles not only gather harvest if you put all dwarves harvest on, but they also help demolishing constructed walls.=--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 00:53, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:Thanks, I'll add that to [[labor]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

==Arrival Requirements Verified==
Ok, I just had the Baroness, Hammerer, and Tax Collector arrive simultaneously with no other dwarves. I'm playing with a population cap of 50, and births (plus overflow of last immigration wave) has finally taken me up to exactly 80 dwarves. Despite the population cap, the Baroness, Tax Collector, and Hammerer arrived by themselves.

<s>Note that the Baroness Consort has not arrived, presumably because he takes the place of a normal dwarf during the immigration wave and can't be generated in violation of the population cap (whereas the other three can).</s> nevermind, he just showed up.

I should also note that I earlier had the King arrive as a peasant by himself despite being at the population cap. He also brought no consort nor advisor (although I've never had him arrive as a peasant before, so I don't know if that's normal).

I have not seen a philosopher as of yet.

As my fortress wealth is past 8 million at this point, I think its safe to say I can rule that out as a cause (having seen them at much lower wealth in default pop cap games).

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:30, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:I had the usual five nobles show up once in an immigration wave that took me over 80 dwarves, and promptly killed them, along with most of the immigrants. I subsequently set my population max to 50. My current population (minus nobles) is 69, yet those same nobles continue to show up every few seasons, suggesting that once you become a barony (80 pop, initial baron/ess arrival), they'll continue to show up again, regardless of your current status. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:10, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

==Noble demands==

I currently have a Baroness demanding "item in Dining Room". Any idea what could satisfy this? I tried a bismuth bronze statue, no luck. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 00:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

: This is a bug. Check # 000491 @ http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 00:47, 5 January 2009 (EST)

==Pretentious Arrangements==

Thoughts about a lesser's pretentious <whatever> arrangements seem to be a common source of noble unhappiness. (this is especially annoying for me as my mayor has an artifact in her bedroom raising it to Royal and my queen has no list of likes and dislikes, so I can't make her happy just by having the right booze) it would be interesting to know what exactly causes the difference between "upset" and "shattered", how to avoid it, and good ways to mitigate it's effects. I might have to do some research on my old fort to check this myself. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 13:58, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:Well, I suspect that the difference is related to the difference in room value, although I suppose that's stating the obvious. Another obvious solution would be to move the artefact into the higher-ranked Noble's room, assuming that's possible. Otherwise, I suppose the simplest (if not the easiest) way to mitigate its effects is to add as much value as possible to the Queen's room. As well as furniture, you can get surprising results with smoothings, engravings, and building an expensive floor over the engraved one if you have no qualms about exploiting such strangeness.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:07, 6 January 2009 (EST)
::I can confirm it's the difference between relative worth. I kept getting these annoying messages in my count + consort until I stuffed a platinum statue in their rooms. Obviously, this increased the worth of the room by 12K, easily dominating the 'lesser' quarters.

::It does require that there be a significant difference; having them at roughly equal worth will cause unhappy thoughts, which was my problem in my most recent fortress. I just housed all my nobles in the same residential stack as everyone else, adding extra room additions off the main design for offices, dining rooms, etc. The Count's room was a LITTLE better as his walls happened to be ore-bearing, but it wasn't enough to please him, hence the statue.--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:04, 7 January 2009 (EST)
:::Alright, I've put the artefact cabinet back in my mayor's room, and now will proceed to test this principle by making the Queen's rooms incredibly nice. I'm going to start by replacing all her furniture with gold and platinum, and move up from there.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 15:49, 7 January 2009 (EST)
::::You may have a long way to go. Artifact furniture can easily be 50 or 60K, whereas the most expensive single piece of furniture I've ever been able to produce is a masterwork platinum statue, which is 12K. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:36, 7 January 2009 (EST)

::::While you can't order artifacts dumped, you can apparently order them forbidden. So maybe you could forbid it and then move the creator's quarters elsewhere, leaving the original one vacant. Or maybe you could make them temporary quarters elsewhere, wait for them to move the artifact, then forbid it and move them back. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:22, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Noble upgrade size. ==

I have a count still event though I have 148 dwarves. Could it be dependant on more than just the 140, or is it different now? [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 21:55, 11 February 2009 (EST)

: I'm at 188 dwarves still with a count not a duke. Could there be a dependancy on metal jobs? Other than melting down the goblin metal, I don't have any metal jobs going. [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 10:47, 14 February 2009 (EST)

I just had a peasant give birth to a baby. This put my population at 110, and I immediately got a message that my fortress had been made into a county. So, I will remove the "verify" tags from the count/count consort promotion info.--[[User:Scrotch|Scrotch]] 18:59, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

::I'm certain that exports are a requirement. Remember that only wealth you have created can count as exports, trading goblin items won't raise the number. If you can't offer it, it doesn't count. I had a fortress with 140+ dwarves that jumped up to a barony from nothing when I started exporting. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 20:03, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Failure to comply ==

I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet, but what happens if you don't give a noble the room he/she requires? I know they get unhappy thoughts, but is that all? Will they punish anyone? Or just start throwing tantrums? Next useless noble I get is sleeping in the barracks. On the floor.
:Unhappy thoughts? I don't think there is any repercusions. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:26, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::Unhappy nobles means more mandates, more demands and harsher sentences. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 20:04, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I just read this and checked my noble's happiness levels and justice levels, and even though they all seem ecstatic lately I have someone who's being jailed for 64 days, which I think is pretty extreme. I have been fulfilling hardly any of their mandates though, so perhaps jail time is related more to mandates than happiness?[[User:Gnavin|Gnavin]] 14:29, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

== Why Nobles Exist: ==

Nobles exist because Dwarven government is a feudal system; the fortress is just a semi-autonomous local government which must still answer to the King, and here's why:
::Long ago in the Age of Myth, the King's ancestor was legendary +5 in every military skill and took control of everything, killing all who resisted. His descendants are now <s>fat, lazy, whoremongering, good for nothing slobs</s> not as <s>cool</s> personally strong as he was, but they still technically own everything, including "your" fortress. The expedition that went to "colonize the King's land" did so with his permission, <s>usually given while drunk</s>. When your fortress becomes large enough that it can no longer <s>avoid notice</s> govern itself "properly", the King sends one of his <s>drinking mates</s> representatives to <s>screw up</s> "manage" the fortress. The nobles hold the authority of the King, and so there every <s>ridiculous</s> <s>stupid</s> <s>impossible</s> "reasonable" mandate "MUST" be obeyed. --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 12:37 17 August, 2009 (EST)

40d:Room

2009-10-13T09:11:27Z

Aykavil: /* Types of rooms */

== What is a room? ==

The answer is not as obvious as it seems. A chamber with a [[bed]] in it is not yet a [[bedroom]]; you have to select the [[bed]] and ''define'' a bedroom from it. The functional room, as the game understands it, is not defined by [[wall]]s and [[door]]s; it is a [[zone]] extending out from a piece of [[furniture]] (in our example, the bed) that defines the room, created when the room is ''defined from'' that piece of furniture. Everything covered by that zone is considered part of the room, and will contribute to both the room's [[value]] and its effectiveness. This zone does '''not''' need to extend to the walls. It is well possible to define several such rooms in one actual enclosed space; they may even overlap, although this comes at a penalty to the room's value.

Rooms can also be assigned to specific [[dwarves]] (to satisfy a [[noble|noble's]] requirements, for instance). Unassigned bedrooms will be spontaneously claimed by individual dwarves not already possessing a bedroom. Married couples will share a bedroom (except for some nobles). Once the [[economy]] starts, dwarves will have to pay rent for their bedrooms.

== Creating rooms ==

To create a room, you must first have built something capable of supporting a room from the {{k|b}}uild menu, such as a [[table]] or [[bed]]. Then you must select the completed item in question with the {{k|q}} command and choose to create a room. The room's radius extends outward in a rectangle, but will stop when it hits walls or external [[door]]s. If you first build the door to create a closed space, then the game will define the room so you won't need to resize it unless it is very big.

If you want to have a door dividing a single, defined room into multiple areas without blocking the room's zone, you can set the door to "internal" in the door's {{k|q}} menu. Rooms do not have to be blocked off on all sides, and can even overlap, but for various reasons you will usually want to avoid overlapping rooms and give them proper boundaries.

In general, you only need to define a room from ''one'' object in the room. For instance, a communal [[dining room]] is defined from one table -- just give the room a large enough radius to cover the whole space.

Rooms can not span z-levels; when you define a room it can only be on a single level.

{{Buildings FAQ}}

== Types of rooms ==
=== Public rooms ===
* Archery Range, defined from an [[archery target]]. Used by the military.
* [[Barracks]], defined from a [[bed]], [[weapon rack]], or [[armor stand]]. Used by the military or by dwarves with no [[bedroom]].
* [[Jail]], defined from a [[cage]] or [[restraint]]. Used for dwarven [[justice]].
* [[Meeting hall]], defined from a [[well]] or [[table]].
* [[Sculpture garden]], defined from a [[statue]].
* [[Shared cage]] ("Zoo"), defined from a [[cage]] or [[aquarium]].
=== Private rooms ===
* [[Bedroom]], defined from a [[bed]].
* [[Dining room]], defined from a [[table]].
* [[Office|Study]]/[[Office]]/[[Office|Throne Room]], defined from a [[chair]] or [[throne]] (These are actually the same thing, even though the game refers to them with different names).
* [[Tomb]], defined from a [[coffin]].

== Room quality ==

Bedrooms, dining rooms, offices, and tombs will have different quality grades depending on their size and [[furniture|furnishings]]. Higher-quality room grades will produce happy [[thought]]s in [[dwarves]] utilizing these rooms. If a room contains items made from materials a [[dwarf]] favors, the room will have a higher perceived quality to that dwarf. You can also increase the grade of a room by [[smooth|smoothing]] and [[engrave|engraving]] the walls and the [[floor]].

Rooms can be viewed in the [[building list]] by hitting the {{k|r}} key.

=== Influences on room quality ===

* [[Furniture]] adds to the quality, <s>by exactly the value of the furniture</s> ''(most likely no longer true)'', which itself depends on material [[Item value|value]] and object [[quality]], plus the value of any [[decoration]]s. Price adjustments by nobles do not affect this value. [[Statue]]s and [[window]]s are a special case; any wall they block access to does not count towards room value.
* Doors add to room value only if they are set to internal '''and''' the room is (re-)sized afterwards, though the room still has to extend only as far as to the door, not beyond (40d).
* Floor and wall grids add to value. See table below.
* Rooms should normally be separate. If rooms share floor space, then the quality 'score' is lowered for those rooms. Details missing. Rooms can share walls and external doors just fine at no penalty.
* Any material, stone type or furniture that an assigned dwarf has a [[preference]] for will increase the perceived value of a room for that dwarf - other dwarfs will perceive the standard value.

=== Factors ===

==== The room ====
Taken from Draxxalon's study. ('''wrong/outdated''') Each tile touched by the room's designated area adds to its rental cost and quality (as per Room Grades below)

{|{|cellpadding="2"
! Type !! Rough Floor !! Smooth Floor !! Rough Wall !! Smooth Wall
|-
| Normal rock || 1 || 4 || 1 || 5
|-
| [[Flux]] || 2 || 14 || 2 || 18
|-
| [[Obsidian]] || 3 || 21 || 3 || 27
|}

* Smoothed and engraved ordinary stone has a base value of 10. This is multiplied by [[quality]] (x1 - x12) in the same way as objects. Note that walls are only detailed on one side (the side that the engraver is on).

* Example: a 3x3 Room
XXXXX
X...X
X...X
X....
XXXXX
As you need to knock out one bit of wall for the entrance, a 3x3 room has ten floor and 11 wall tiles (the corners are inaccessible and don't count). That makes a basic value of 22. When smoothed, it will score ((10 * 4) + (11 * 5)) = 95, assuming it's all plain stone.

As an alternative to engraving, floors can be [[construction|constructed]] out of valuable materials (such as [[gold]], [[steel]], [[platinum]], [[aluminum]], or megabeast [[soap]]) in order to increase room value significantly. Constructing a floor on top of an engraving will [[Engraving#Art defacement|destroy]] the engraving, making its creator unhappy and possibly making the builder a [[Justice|criminal]].

==== Furniture ====
All standard furniture ([[bed]]s, [[coffer]]s, [[weapon rack]]s, etc.) has a base [[value]] of 10. The value of doors is unknown but they seem to be counted in somehow. The base value is multiplied by the material value and the item's [[quality]]. For example, a *Marble Door* is worth 10 (door) * 2 ([[marble]]) * 4 (*superior quality*) = 80☼. A few pieces of high-quality furniture can increase a room's value quite a bit, and high-quality high-material-value furniture can add thousands to the value of the room.

* The floor space that the furniture is standing on still counts. Therefore, really valuable soap floors might be a good idea.
* Windows act as walls and statues and block the value of tile that they are built on. You can use the high value of a high-quality clear glass window as a separator of rooms to make both rooms very valuable.
* Statues (basic value 25) block the tile they're built on. They also cause any wall they're blocking to no longer contribute to room value.

==== Artifacts ====
If you are the lucky owner of [[artifact]] furniture, placing it in a nobles office or bedroom is the best thing you can do, as even a 'cheap' all-stone artifact will be worth at least 2400☼, boosting the room very close to '''grand'''. In practice artifacts frequently exceed 10,000☼ and can turn a single tile of dirt into a '''royal''' room.

=== Specific room quality grades ===

The grades of quality of rooms are as follows. These quality grades only apply to bedrooms, dining rooms, offices, and tombs.
{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="1" border="1" cellpadding="10"
! [[Bedroom]] !! [[Dining room]] !! [[Office]] !! [[Tomb]] !! Rent
|-
| Meager Quarters || Meager Dining Room ||Meager Office || Grave || 1 - 99
|-
| Modest Quarters || Modest Dining Room || Modest Office || Servant's Burial Chamber || 100 - 249
|-
| Quarters || Dining Room || Office || Burial Chamber || 250 - 499
|-
| Decent Quarters || Decent Dining Room || Decent Office || Tomb || 500 - 999
|-
| Fine Quarters || Fine Dining Room || Splendid Office || Fine Tomb || 1,000 - 1,499
|-
| Great Quarters || Great Dining Room || Throne Room || Mausoleum || 1,500 - 2,499
|-
| Grand Quarters || Grand Dining Room || Opulent Throne Room || Grand Mausoleum || 2,500 - 9,999
|-
| Royal* Quarters|| Royal* Dining Room || Royal* Throne Room || Royal* Mausoleum || 10,000+
|}
:''(* aka "Legendary")''

Examples:
* Modest Quarters:
** a 3x2 room with one or two masterpieces in it.
** a 3x2 room, smoothed wall and floors, half-decent furniture (+ or * ).
* Quarters:
** 3x2, smooth walls, two or more excellent pieces of furniture.
** A 3x3 room single detailed everywhere (with no [[ore]] or [[gem]]s in the walls) with an exceptional (triple [[bar]]) door, bed, cabinet, coffer, weapon rack and armor stand (rent 395).
* Decent Quarters:
** A 3x3 room single detailed everywhere (with no ore or gems in the walls) with a masterpiece door, bed, cabinet, coffer, weapon rack, and armor stand (rent 815).
** A 5x5 room, double detailed floor, good quality furniture.
* Grand Quarters:
** A 6* 6 room with smoothed walls, engraved floors and three exceptional pieces of furniture.
** A 3* 13 room with smoothed walls, engraved floors, six exceptional pieces of furniture and one masterful piece.

== Saving on noble's rooms ==
You can make one large room, and install every noble there. The quality reduction for overlapping rooms is sufferable compared to the savings over constructing and furnishing a large number of rooms, particularly if you can add to the room's value with artifacts. If the [[king]] shows up, you must furnish this room to four times the "Royal" quality for it to count as Royal or just build a separate room for him.

This is a risky strategy as nobles get upset that their rooms are not '''better''' than those of lesser nobles. One solution is to designate the rooms of higher-ranked nobles as covering slightly different space, and adding high-value statues, mechanisms, or other objects within that area, not covered by the other nobles' "rooms" (as designated).

[[Category:Rooms]]

40d Talk:Mineshaft stitching

2009-06-24T09:51:25Z

Aykavil: Vanity of vanities

Hi, thought I would put this script up here and see if it was useful. This perhaps should be moved to a user page or something, but I am not certain: feel free to suggest changes, moves, or a more appropriate way to present this.
-- Seth Fogarty
: Hi, I thought the whole point of mineshafts was to optimize the dig load on [[exploratory mining]]. Stitching them together doubles the amount of dug stone, doesn't it? 22% doesn't look so optimal. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 09:51, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

40d:Thief

2009-06-04T10:40:05Z

Aykavil: Undo revision 41278611 by Insecticide (Talk) See Gpblin page talk

In Fortress mode, a '''thief''' is a disgusting dishonorable creature that can skulk around the map unseen until it moves adjacent to a [[dwarf]], guard [[dog]], or other helpful creature. Some thieves can bypass [[trap]]s as well.

There are two types: [[goblin]] baby-snatchers and [[kobold]] pilferers.

Certain "playful" [[creatures]] will also try to steal items from your hoard. These include [[raccoon]]s, [[rhesus macaque]]s and [[mandrill]]s(which aren't just playful, but downright dangerous). In addition, [[black_bear|bear]]s and [[gnome]]s will try to steal your [[alcohol|booze]] if they can get at it.

[[Category:Fortress mode]]
[[Category:Professions]]

40d Talk:Elf

2009-05-27T13:21:19Z

Aykavil: /* Elves and Animals */

==Trading==
I have successfuly traded them Silk items in 0.27.169.32a--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 00:01, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

:Thanks for testing it, I removed the verify tag. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:43, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I have to wonder why elves wouldn't accept anything made out of wood, when all they want to trade me is animals in wooden cages, and alcohol in wooden barrels and bows and bolts made out of wood...you know what, almost everything they wanted to trade me was made from wood... --[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 01:32, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

:It's because the elves ask nicely when they take wood from a tree. Dwarves go out and TAKE IT!--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 14:38, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I accidentally tried to trade a wooden bucket with them. The elves scolded me, but still allowed me to trade my stone mugs and scepters. They don't leave straight away anymore.--[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 01:44, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:Ah, I'm glad they're more forgiving now. Fixed. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:14, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::I think how they react depends on your broker's social skills, since they sometimes get unpacifiably pissy at me and sometimes only whine mildly. I have on "Anyone may trade".--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 21:05, 12 November 2008 (EST)

::They may rather be bugged now. There is a bug report that offering them something they don't like will make their mood maximally happy. --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 14:14, 19 November 2007 (EST)

:::Elfs are stupid. I traded some stone crafts for some of their wooden cages, and then i tryed to trade those same wooden cages back and they get angry at me for killing trees! [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 12:09, 1 December 2007 (EST)

What about flours, syrups and the like? Food? The DO buy prepared meals.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:32, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

I've noticed something new which may just be a coincidence - As I scale back my harvesting of wood from local sources (outside) the elves bring me a larger quantity of wood to trade. If I start chopping trees down for roads, etc. then they bring me less. Anyone else notice this? --[[User:Termitehead|Termitehead]] 08:49, 6 May 2008 (CST)

I accidentally offered an elf some wooden items, and after that the Trade option was disabled even after exiting out of the interface and starting a new trading session. Is that supposed to happen? Seems a little harsh to me... --[[User:Theory|Theory]] 14:12, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

:Yes, that is how it works. If you offer to trade something repugnant to a merchant, they will leave in a huff for that season. Consider how you would react if someone offered to sell you a necklace made of puppy and kitten skulls with sewn images in human leather of elephants slaughtering people while on fire. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:36, 13 November 2008 (EST)

I'm convinced that the elves aren't tree-huggers, they're a logging cartel. After all, they SELL you logs and scads of wooden gear. They just don't want you clear-cutting forests because you're muscling in on their turf. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 15:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Fortress in Elf Territory ==

I set one up for fun, and so far (1st winter) there's been no effect. The weirdest part is the large number of named trees; I've avoided cutting them down, and the elves haven't bothered me. I've had hunters chase and kill deer right in their midst with no ill effect as well -- it remains to be seen what happens if he misses the deer and hits an elf, though. Will report back when I find something interesting. [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:53, 12 November 2007 (EST)

==Pissed-off the elves...==
They seem to be kinda wussy, considering that I confiscated all of their trade caravan's goods (3k in rope reed cloth of various colors and a little bit of alcohol and seeds) and I expected a siege (my fort is in a boring area, and losing is fun) but they won't attack me. I took their junk a season or two ago. When and how will they attack? --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 19:22, 27 November 2007 (EST)

:Elves are wusses now. It's not even known if non-evil races still siege, much less treehugging wusses like elves. -[[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 01:09, 28 November 2007 (EST)

::[[Siege]]s from non-evil races have been disabled for now. They'll be back once the war arc is complete. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 15:10, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:::I was sieged by humans in I think 39c after a merchant's guild representative was slaughtered by a goblin ambush. [[User:Mingebag|Mingebag]] 01:07, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

==Elves bringing corpses==
The elves usually bring an animal or two in cages to trade, but many times that bring cages full of corpses... It's either all alive, or all corpses. Maybe the animals died in transit? Anybody else have this happen to them?--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 22:11, 25 December 2007 (EST)

: "It's not dead, it's resting". Er, the humans do this to me too. Pretty sure it's on the known bug list. [[User:Acama|Acama]] 02:17, 30 December 2007 (EST)

:I'm rather certain that if you're in a climate that you can die from exposure, that this is what happens. Have you gotten a shipment of live animals and a shipment of dead ones while at the same site? If not, then this is almost certainly the case. If so, it's possibly a function of a random number and perhaps the extremeness of the climate. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:11, 30 December 2007 (EST)

::I seem to recall it being stated that this was due to the caravan passing THROUGH climates where you can die of exposure on the way to your fortress. If the path a civ needs to take runs through freezing or scorching climates, the elves don't give the animals proper temperature care and they die. In contrast, the elves seem to make it through just fine--who knows, maybe the code is slightly different for caravan entities and separate creatures that happen to be carried along with the caravan. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:03, 10 January 2008 (EST)

::: I've had it happen to me as well, heck, half my map is haunted and frozen year round. Oddly vermin, bats and squirrels and such, make it through fine. [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 12:47, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

:I actually prefer this method. I like to trap stuff myself so it makes the cages much cheaper, and the corpse can still be butchered for meat, bones, fat, and skulls. Your butcher will grab the entire cage and take it to the butcher's shop to empty it. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 11:20, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Elves and Animals ==

Doing some testing with using Elves in fortress mode, it seems that they will NOT be attacked by animals. Do you think we might go as far as to write in this page that [NATURAL]creatures will not attack elves? [[User:Zonk|Zonk]] 11:57, 9 January 2008 (EST)
: I have had a super agile mace-elf (from a goblin ambush) pass three rows of noquality weapon traps; he then proceeded to ''slaughter'' my chained dogs, black bear, alligator, jaguar and monkeys almost unscratched (his upper body was merely 'tired'). Either the animals are particularly weak, or they failed to attack the invader. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 13:21, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

== Elven warnings ==

The elves just warned me about cutting too many trees... I didn't realize that was still in. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 17:23, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== Elven traders ==

I have read that if the human caravans are attacked too many times, that the humans will wage war on you. I have also read that if you cut down too many trees, the elves will wage war on you. But if you let the elven traders die, will they also wage war on you? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 22:14, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

:Don't think so, elves got ambushed by gobbies one year and I did nothing to help them. Accidentally saved one of the traders, though, but he starved to death. --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 19:17, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

::I've raided an elven caravan for everything they were carrying, and had a human force siege my fortress not long after. There was no compelling reason for them to do so (I didn't raid their caravan, nor were there any human casualties at my fortress) yet they sieged me anyway. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 01:21, 8 January 2009 (EST)

==Blood Covering?==

I have sold some items with blood covering with no negative effects... can anyone confirm if it's true or not? [[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:55, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

I cannot say firsthand, but I've heard in the forums and, I think, elsewhere in the Wiki that blood covering angers the elves.--[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 23:24, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

:As of 0.28.181.40d, I just traded a huge pile of blood covered leather clothes, and the elves didn't seem to mind. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 16:20, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

== Speaking with Halfmen ==

What exactly is the tag that lets you speak with snakemen, ratmen, etcetera? I haven't been able to figure it out as of yet, and I want to add it to a creature I'm making.

In addition, adding the [AT_PEACE_WITH_WILDLIFE] tag didn't stop wolves and bears from ambushing and attacking me; so judging from this that is not the tag that makes them 'immune' to attacks; either that, or the wolves/bears and other large predators ignore that tag. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 15:59, 14 May 2008 (EDT) (Edited later due to forgetting to add nametag)

Animalmen are no longer wildlife in 39e, so they're hostile to elves. Someone should edit the article to express this. --[[User:Neoskel|Neoskel]] 21:40, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

== Elves as of .39c ==

I feel the Elves went under a pretty big overhaul in the latest version. They've turned into tree huggers who do little else but complain, to zerging cannibals who dominate worlds when given enough time. Also little things, like Elves regrowing trees around captured sites, in addition to the aforementioned personality changes, may warrant it's own section, and/or editing.

== Elven Ambushes ==

While they may not seige, They do preform Ambushes.

And I noticed something quite strange...

They ambushed with Mounts. I saw a swarm of Unicorns heading torwards my location. There where no unicorns on my map, so I sent my military to meet them, and when battle was engaged, it said "An Ambush!" And, for each Unicorn, there was also an elf (on the same square)

I'm not sure where to put this in the article though. I've been ambushed by non-mounted elves several times as well. Maybe a new section "Amubsh/Seige habits?"

:I've seen Elves ambush on unicorns too (version 0.28.181.39e), and they had no qualms about slaughtering the puppies I had tied to chains outside -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:09, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

== Elven Trading as of Latest Version ==

It seems to me that the elves are much, much more tolerant than before as to what items they will accept. So far I've successfully given them leather, bone, and shell crafts just fine. I have also tried offering them the same branch of items, and they will happily accept them. They even accept items that have blood on them. They will still reject pure wooden goods.
I haven't fully tested skulls, soap, or other animal byproducts yet. But if I were to hazard a guess, I would say they still will reject any item that has wood involved in it's creation, or any item with decorations of wood.
[[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 09:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

== How do I kill elves? ==

I don't like elves in my fortress and I would like to kill them with my thirty axedwarfs, how would I go about doing this? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:TheLastBarber|TheLastBarber]]

:You can only attack people who have come to your fortress with ill intent. Anger them enough (cut down trees, take their stuff, involve their merchants in unfortunate "accidents", etc.) and they should send forces to attack you, whereupon you can finally take joy in the slaughter. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 15:39, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

::You can also kill Elves that have gone insane, but that would require imprisoning them for a considerable length of time.--[[User:Stryc9fuego|Stryc9fuego]] 14:08, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
:::I can kill ones that go beserk, sure, but the melancholy ones can emo out unimpeded. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 21:06, 13 November 2008 (EST)

== Last edit ==

I've have heard extensive talking about how elves eat the dead. A note to this effect was removed in the last update, can anyone confirm/deny this behavior? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 18:45, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
: No civ creature will eat the dead unless it's acceptable or such in entity_default.txt. --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 20:59, 3 November 2008 (EST)
::EAT_SAPIENT_KILL is the (a) relevant tag, right? That's acceptable for elves. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 00:40, 4 November 2008 (EST)

::: While scrolling through Legends mode, I noticed that there are only a handful of reasons why wars occur, and one of those reasons is cannibalism, or more accurately, "One of the most significant causes of the conflict was a dispute over the devouring of sapient beings." So perhaps the elven cannibal stories are only by-products of the historical conflict-basis generator? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:02, 4 November 2008 (EST)

== Seeing Bad Things Drives Elves Beserk? ==
On the way out, I had a small elven trading party go beserk for no readily discernible reason. Checking it later I found they had stopped at one of my fortifications, all of which sport stockpiles full of awesome things like «☼Human Bone Bolts [30]☼». (Problems with goblins, carvers weren't too discriminating...aheh...) I later knocked out part of a wall and added doors to funnel the elves away from The Bad Things and that's kept the peace. I'm half-tempted to offer them a «☼Human Skull Totem☼» just to see if elves can achieve nuclear fusion. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 21:03, 13 November 2008 (EST)
:If traders are trapped for too long, they go berserk. I think it is more likely that they somehow got hung up near your fortification and their pathfinding broke. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 00:37, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Elven in-laws? ==

Like many of the above, I randomly decided to live with the elves. the first thing I noticed about them was the ''three and a half'' pages on the units screen dedicated completely to the children. is this normal? it can really be annoying when the announcement box pops up with "Elven name" has grown to be an elf. I expected it a little, but not like this! Either the Elves were more than "tree" huggers or the game had made a seemingly unrealistic script that only made sense to itself. On the bright side, I found the druid!

== At War with Elves ==

I think there should be a section about what happens when your civ is at war with Elves (and Goblins and Humans for that matter). Before I add it in, though, I want to say what I think should be in it:

*There seems to be a gliche where the game zooms you to the elven caravan in spring except that there is no caravan and no message. So basically, your screen just wigs out for a bit.

*Elves only ambush (as mentioned below/above). You might think they attack in Spring... but you'd be wrong.

*Although Goblins are always assumed to be at war with you, elves are not. So on the civ screen Goblins have a red dashed line next to their civ name. Elves, on the other hand, if they are at war with your civ have a red "WAR!" text next to their civ name. I found this confusing, actually. Maybe it should be in the embark screen articles.

*How can you start a war with Elves? Just by ignoring their diplomats and clear-cutting forests?

*Do elves get angry if you cut down undead trees? I assume they are too stupid to know the difference.

*Is there a way to establish peace with elves? What is necessary to do so? (do you need to have the king?)

*Anything else about being at war with elves?

If I find the answers myself, I will add them here.

Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Spamreport

2009-05-27T09:43:53Z

Aykavil: CalilAbasr spam

=== Use this page to notify the admin of any spamming account. ===

[[Category:Wiki]]

OloliDelvi is definetly a spam account of some kind, I just reversed an edit of theirs which was a link to some page. I didn't check the link out, but it's the first edit of that account, so.. obviously.--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 20:20, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

[[Special:Contributions/CalilAbasr]], [[Special:Contributions/TroctRocdr]], [[Special:Contributions/OloliDelvi]] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:38, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Didn't know about this page - confirmed re TroctRocdr on main page - undone yesterday by myself--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:45, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

[[CalilAbasr]] - '''again''' - this time on the [[Giant bat]] page - whoa! outa control. Undone. (Delete the account already! With extreme prejudice, even!) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 12:41, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
: [[User:CalilAbasr]] ([[Special:Contributions/CalilAbasr|contribs]]) has only 3 contributions all of which are spam.--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 09:43, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

40d:Giant bat

2009-05-27T09:34:01Z

Aykavil: Undo revision 41277904 by CalilAbasr (Talk)

{{CreatureInfo|name=Giant Bat|symbol=B|color={{COLOR:0:0:1}}|bones=10|chunks=10|meat=10|fat=3|skulls=1|skin=Yes|biome= Subterrenean [[chasm]]|wiki=no}}

'''Giant bats''' live in [[cave]]s and [[chasm]]s. They are one size bigger than a [[minotaur]]. Giant bats are dangerous combatants and can easily kill unskilled adventurers and [[dwarves]], whom they will occasionally hunt.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:BAT_GIANT]
[NAME:giant bat:giant bats:giant bat]
[TILE:'B'][COLOR:0:0:1]
[MODVALUE:5]
[LARGE_ROAMING][DIFFICULTY:2]
[FLIER]
[BENIGN]
[GENPOWER:3][NATURAL][PET_EXOTIC][MOUNT_EXOTIC]
[PETVALUE:750]
[PREFSTRING:terrifying features]
[BODY:HUMANOID_FLIER:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[SIZE:10]
[MAXAGE:10:20]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:1][CHILDNAME:giant bat pup:giant bat pups]
[FAT:3]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
[BIOME_SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:100]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
}}
{{Creatures}}
[[Category:Animals]]

40d:Boulder

2009-05-14T12:22:11Z

Aykavil: boulder removed by wall is exploit.

A '''boulder''' is a [[map tile]] that occurs randomly across the surface of the world (often found on [[soil]] or [[sand]]). Boulders represent fragments of various [[stone]] types. They can impede the movement of wagons and get in the way of construction projects on land but can be walked over by [[dwarves]] and other [[creatures]]. To remove a boulder, access the {{k|d}}esignations menu and {{k|s}}mooth stone, click on the stone and an [[engraver]] should come along to turn the boulder into a smooth rock [[floor]]. The resulting floor is the material of the boulder rather than the apparent surrounding material of the ground that the boulder was on.

If you wish to remove a boulder without creating a smoothed tile in its place, there is [[Exploit|another way]]. Simply designate a wall to be constructed on top of the boulder. After it has been constructed, designate it to be removed. Due to a [[bug]], when a dwarf removes the wall, the floor will be replaced by the dominant floor tile of the area (usually soil).

[[Category:Map tiles]]

40d:Tree

2009-05-14T12:13:37Z

Aykavil: trees do not provide food

Across the [[world]], '''trees''' can be found littering the landscape. They are a great renewable source of [[wood]], but never a source of food in Dwarf Fortess (it is currenty{{version|0.28.181.40d}} not possible to harvest mangos, maple syrup, rubber, nuts, etc.). There are many different varieties that grow in different [[biomes]]. While [[tower cap]]s grow indoors, every other variety occurs only outdoors.

''Trees'' are a type of [[map tile]], not [[construction]]s, similar to solid [[rock]] or [[bush]]es. They must be designated for removal from the [[designations|{{Key|d}}esignations menu]] chop {{k|t}}rees, which will instruct [[dwarves]] with the [[woodcutter]] skill to grab an [[axe]] and begin chopping down the tree.

Trees grow from saplings, which start growing randomly on tiles of a suitable biome. Saplings can be destroyed by heavy [[traffic]]. To grow from a sapling to a tree takes about a year and a half.

Trees viewed from one tile above look like coloured [[stone]] [[block]]s floating in the air. Also, deciduous trees will change colour to red or yellow in [[autumn]], and lose their leaves in [[winter]]: {{tile|╞|#770}}.

Trees also gain names near [[elf|elven]] settlements. It is unclear what effect this has on gameplay, if any at all.

Trees ''will not'' as of yet be destroyed by [[magma]] or [[fire]] (nor will [[water]] damage them in any way).
Saplings can 'drown' in water and magma, though.

== List of Trees ==

{| {{prettytable}}
|- style="background:#ddd"
! Tree Name
! Habitat !! Tile !! Alignment !! Density (Weight) !! Deciduous
|-
! id="mangrove"|Mangrove
| Mangrove Swamp (Wet) || {{tile|♣|green|black}} || All || 500 || No
|-
! id="saguaro"|Saguaro
| Any Desert (Dry) || {{tile|╞|green|black}} || All || 500 || No
|-
! id="pine"|Pine
| Taiga Forest (Dry) Temperate Conifer Forest Tropical Conifer Forest || {{tile|↑|green|black}} || All || 560 || No
|-
! id="cedar"|Cedar
| Temperate Conifer Forest (Dry) Tropical Conifer Forest || {{tile|↨|green|black}} || All || 380 || No
|-
! id="oak"|Oak
| Any Temperate Broadleaf Forest (Dry) || {{tile|♠|green|black}} || All || 700 || Yes
|-
! id="mahogany"|Mahogany
| Any Tropical Forest (Dry) || {{tile|♠|green|black}} || All || 600 || No
|-
! id="acacia"|Acacia
| Tropical Dry Broadleaf Forest (Dry) Tropical Grassland Tropical Savanna Tropical Shrubland || {{tile|♣|green|black}} || All || 500 || No
|-
! id="kapok"|Kapok
| Tropical Moist Broadleaf Forest (Dry) || {{tile|Γ|green|black}} || All || 500 || No
|-
! id="maple"|Maple
| Temperate Broadleaf Forest (Dry) Temperate Grassland Temperate Savanna Temperate Shrubland || {{tile|♣|green|black}} || All || 755 || Yes
|-
! id="willow"|Willow
| Any Temperate (Wet) Any Tropical Forest Tropical Grassland Tropical Savanna Tropical Shrubland Tropical Freshwater Swamp Tropical Saltwater Swamp Tropical Freshwater Marsh Tropical Saltwater Marsh || {{tile|⌠|green|black}} || All || 420 || No
|-
! id="tower-cap"|[[Tower-cap]]
| Subterranean Water (Wet)(Dry) || {{tile|♣|green|black}} || All || 600 || No
|-
! id="glumprong"|Glumprong
| Not Freezing (Dry) || {{tile|┤|green|black}} || Evil || 1200 || No
|-
! id="feathertree"|Feather tree
| Not Freezing (Dry) || {{tile|♣|green|black}} || Good || 100 || No
|-
! id="highwood"|Highwood
| Not Freezing (Dry) || {{tile|¶|green|black}} || Savage || 500 || No
|-
! id="larch"|Larch
| Taiga Forest (Dry) Temperate Conifer Forest || {{tile|↑|green|black}} || All || 590 || Yes
|-
! id="chestnut"|Chestnut
| Any Temperate Broadleaf Forest (Dry) || {{tile|♠|green|black}} || All || 500 || Yes
|-
! id="alder"|Alder
| Any Temperate Broadleaf Forest (Dry) || {{tile|♣|green|black}} || All || 410 || Yes
|-
! id="birch"|Birch
| Any Temperate Broadleaf Forest (Dry) || {{tile|♣|green|black}} || All || 670 || Yes
|-
! id="ashtree"|Ash
| Any Temperate Broadleaf Forest (Dry) || {{tile|♠|green|black}} || All || 620 || Yes
|-
! id="candlenut"|Candlenut
| Any Tropical Forest (Dry) || {{tile|Γ|green|black}} || All || 500 || No
|-
! id="mangotree"|Mango tree
| Any Tropical Forest (Dry) || {{tile|Γ|green|black}} || All || 500 || No
|-
! id="rubbertree"|Rubber tree
| Tropical Moist Broadleaf Forest (Dry) || {{tile|Γ|green|black}} || All || 500 || No
|-
! id="cacaotree"|Cacao tree
| Tropical Moist Broadleaf Forest (Dry) || {{tile|Γ|green|black}} || All || 500 || No
|-
! id="palm"|Palm
| Any Tropical (Dry) || {{tile|Γ|green|black}} || All || 500 || No
|}

[[Category:Map tiles]][[Category:Trees]]

v0.34:Magma furnace

2009-05-13T11:50:07Z

Aykavil:

Disambiguation:

:* [[Magma glass furnace]] (to create glass items)
:* [[Magma kiln]] (to create pearlash from potash)
:* [[Magma smelter]] (to melt ores into bars of metals)

40d:Giant leopard

2009-05-13T11:30:40Z

Aykavil: big, or giant?

{{CreatureInfo|name=Giant leopard|symbol=L|color={{COLOR:6:0:1}}|bones=9|fat=3|skin=Yes|skulls=1|chunks=9|meat=9|biome=
*Any [[Tropical]]
*[[Badland]] [[Desert]]
*Rock Desert
*Sand Desert}}
Like a [[leopard]], but really big (some would go as far as to say, ''"giant"'').

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:LEOPARD_GIANT]
[NAME:giant leopard:giant leopards:giant leopard]
[TILE:'L'][COLOR:6:0:1]
[MODVALUE:3]
[LARGE_ROAMING][FREQUENCY:5]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:2:3]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:1]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][SAVAGE]
[MEANDERER]
[GENPOWER:2]
[PETVALUE:100]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0][NATURAL][PET]
[CARNIVORE]
[PREFSTRING:spotted coats]
[BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:PAW]
[SIZE:9]
[MAXAGE:10:20]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:3][CHILDNAME:giant leopard cub:giant leopard cubs]
[FAT:3]
[NOCTURNAL]
[BIOME:ANY_TROPICAL]
[BIOME:DESERT_BADLAND]
[BIOME:DESERT_ROCK]
[BIOME:DESERT_SAND]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:100]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]}}
{{Creatures}}
[[Category:Animals]]

40d Talk:Magma

2009-05-06T21:07:28Z

Aykavil: /* Items Caught In Cooling Magma */

Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the [[Magma smelter]] article, which state that using [[Fire-safe materials]] is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:: Yes, dwarves seem to be able to swim through magma unharmed when temperature is off(I've had them shoved in during a fight, not 100% sure), but they'll violently resist this, even without danger. Water will still steam, it seems to be hard coded. --[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 16:50, 12 November 2008 (EST)

Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_rocks#Naming this article] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock#Mineralogical_classification this site] list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?
:It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.
::So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)

On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--[[User:SL|SL]] 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)
::I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this "cap", I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)
:::Turning on the "see magma pools and pipes" option in the init file would be a great help for trouble shooting on this topic.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:44, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Magmapool/pipe section ==
Zara, you recently added some info about all magma pipes having cliffs over them -- this is incorrect. I've played a very large number of magma pipe maps, and very often they are completely exposed to the air. I've also removed the line about them being "as small as two z-levels!", because it needs better phrasing. I may fix it later. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 22:39, 26 February 2008 (EST)

:in the meantime I had figured that out, too. But what is the difference between a magma pipe and a volcano, then? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Zara|Zara]]

::As far as I know, the distinction comes down to whether it reaches the surface. If so, some would then call it a volcano rather than a magma pipe. I believe that magma pipes which reach the surface (or volcanoes, if you will) are the only ones which actually show up on the embark map, while underground magma pipes and magma pools do not (unless you use the Regional Prospector tool). --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 23:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

:::No, similar to Moonanibe,I've played on several maps where, on the embark screen, the magma pipe was only visible using regional prospector. However, as soon as I took a look at the place, I found the magma partly (or completely) exposed on the surface. [[User:Zara|Zara]] 01:59, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
::::Magma pipes are not 'necessarily' part of a mountain, while volcanoes make a mountain around them during world gen. Comes down to a number game. Volcanoes have a magma number of 100, while pipes have a number between 99 and some lower value.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:48, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Added new section ==
I added a section regarding "Built objects vs. Magma". I think it's absolutely vital we establish what does and doesn't melt in magma, in a clean list. There are quite a few things that could be added to that list (Constructed floors for one) so please, do add to it. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 17:31, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:Have you tested the bridges? I conjecture that all buildings and constructions without mechanisms are perfectly fine with magma contact. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:: The bridges part was cut from another section of the article and moved in there. Since it was already here, I assumed it was accurate. I haven't actually checked myself. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 16:54, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:I will verify bridges one way or the other. I'm pretty sure they cant melt, though. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:03, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::they dont melt, as they arent actually within the magma. that was copied over from the 2d wiki and nobody removed it -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 22:29, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::: I noticed you removed the line about bridges. It seems silly not to mention them at all, so I've written up a line about them working no matter what the material and stuck it in. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 23:12, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::::yea they should definately be mentioned, wasnt thinking when i removed it completely(recovering from a bad cold and brain is still a bit foggy) -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 00:49, 20 February 2008 (EST)
Tested. Non-magmaiproof bridges -over- magma are fine. Non-magma-proof submerged in magma will melt. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:39, 21 February 2008 (EST)
: Interesting. I'll edit the article to say as much. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 15:30, 21 February 2008 (EST)
This is what I've found: ANY Construction is safe from magma (even wooden ones. Walls, stairs, fortifications, etc). Any building is unaffected by magma if the magma doesn't occupy the same tile as the building. Example: a door is safe if it's closed, even if it's made of non-safe rock or wood. If you lock it open with a mechanism, or if it's jammed, then the magma interacts with the components, burning/melting them if they can't stand the heat. A pump made of wood or any other material is also safe, as long as the magma doesn't flow *over* it. Since the "out" side acts as a wall, if it's correctly isolated from the magma it won't get damaged and will pump the magma without any trouble. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 01:41, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Anyone clear on Vertical Bars in magma? I am attempting to keep imps and such from moving through my magma feeding tunnel and was curious if anyone had any good solutions to this problem. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 16:23, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

:I just use a bauxite wall grate, it works fine for me. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:02, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
:: Ah, thank you, I just wanted to be sure they didn't melt regardless --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 02:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 
I made a few tests with magma and buildings/constructions and I can confirm some known results and I can provide a few new aspects. Constructions (b->C) are magma safe (walls, floors, stairs, others not tested). No matter what the material is.
*<s>bridges build with bauxite *rocks* are not magma safe (bauxite mechanism or not)</s>
*bridges build with bauxite *blocks* are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
*bridges build with steel bars are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
Open test: bridge with blocks considered as not magma safe.
 [[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:14, 11 July 2008 (EDT)
::I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The bridges build with bauxite rocks were previously connected with a lever. Unfortunately the mechanism is not removed from the bridge when you remove the lever. Well, at least it seems that the rules for magma safe materials are valid for bridges. With one exception: raised bridges can contain any mechanism, only when magma flows over the bridge it is destroyed.--[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 13:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== Replenishing Magma ==

Since magma replenishes now, I've rewritten that snippet from the article. If I've missed something(a kind of magma not regenerating, though this always worked for me on several maps), feel free to correct things. --[[User:Romantic Warrior|Romantic Warrior]] 15:47, 18 February 2008 (EST).

I have a very good feeling that the replenishing magma is just "pressurized" magma. I haven't tested fully, but i have poured water over a magma pipe and re-mined it, and in that case the magma flow was upwards. --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 03:49, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Temperature ==

Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:I'm not sure how the temperature calculations are done, but I CAN tell you that magma will melt nearby ice. Check out http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-153-meltingwateronglacier to see it in action. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 15:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)

::It should be a flow, just like the magma itself. One of the other visible results is warm stone. The same can probably be said for water and damp stone as well. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)

==Flow?==

I have a magma pipe (pit) in my current fortress... I breached the pipe from the lowest level because of the diagonal bug when I discovered it, and it filled some long exploratory shafts. Since then, the top magma layer is down to 5/7 and 6/7 running all over the surface. After a little while, it's easy to see that magma act curiously: instead of bouncing from wall to wall like real water physics, in my game the 5/7 (the flow) seems to all move in the same direction at the same time. The direction change often, and seem to change randomly. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)

There is another way to stop a flow of magma that's moving through a tunnel. You can go one z-level higher, dig to a spot above the magma-filled tunnel, then build a channel above where the magma is flowing and assign it as a Pond Zone. So long as you have buckets and a viable Water Source zone, a dwarf will come along and drop water on the magma, instantly turning it into obsidian and blocking the tunnel. --[[User:Stromko]] January 6th, 2007
: I've tried this - it rarely works. Usually you just destroy 1/7 of the magma per bucket, along with the water from the bucket, and nothing turns to obsidian. You need to hit it with larger quantities of water at once to get reliable results. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:35, 6 January 2008 (EST)
::Actually, you have to hit it from two levels up. Just one won't do anything.--[[User:Demosthenes|Demosthenes]] 17:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)

I have added a section to the main page on magma flow, based on frequent confusion in the forums, and on some investigations I have been making into the behavior of magma when pumped (I'm not the first to discover this behavior, but I did go to a fair degree of effort to test how it behaves in differing circumstances) --[[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] 21:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
:Now THAT is how you make a diagram! Awesome. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:20, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

==Criteria for Magma Buildings==

Is there a special condition that must be met before Magma Smelters/Forges/Furnaces and so on will appear on the build menus? I have a magma pit and some channels over it so that I can access it for magma, but I cannot build any magma-using buildings. - [[User:Confused Rat|Confused Rat]]

:Magma furnaces and forges need a hole somewhere on the ground where they are built. This is to allow the furnace/forge to take the heat from the magma as they are used. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:43, 25 January 2008 (EST)

:What he means is that the magma furnaces don't even appear in the build menu. This is because you haven't discovered magma through natural means. The only way this can happen is if you used reveal to find the magma. You'll have to use the [[Utilities#Enable_Magma_Buildings|Enable Magma Buildings]] utility to make them appear. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:03, 25 January 2008 (EST)

:Reclaimed fortresses may be bugged. If you reclaimed you fortress you probably can't do anything with it without 3rd party programs (like one mentioned above). Magma in [[pit]]s isn't enough to allow magma buildings. You need to discover true magma pipe and get pop-up informing about this. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

:I had a similar problem in a human settlement, so I do not know if the bug applies there, too... but there IS a chance I abandoned and reclaimed at one point, so it could just be that --[[User:Zatnik|Zatnik]] 05:02, 7 January 2009 (EST)

== Infinity Generators? ==

Because magma is currently a finite resource, would it be a good idea to add how to make an infinity generator as workarround untill Toady gives us some more of the stuff?—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Highlord Asehujiko|Highlord Asehujiko]] ([[User talk:Highlord Asehujiko|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Highlord Asehujiko|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
:Not on the main article as it would easily be considered cheating. In here, or the [[cheating]] article itself would be fine, the latter probably more appropriate as it could be applied to water as well for those scorching maps. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:16, 27 January 2008 (EST)
::Magma regenerates in most cases, which pretty much means it's infinite. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Lava vs. Magma ==

I hadn't noticed it until just now, but both Lava and Magma occur in the game. I haven't seen this fact referenced in the wiki. Magma is a fluid which occurs in Magma Pipes, and in areas directly connected to Magma Pipes. Lava appears to occur in disconnected areas. I'm not sure what happens if you reconnect. If you use {{k|k}} to view a square, you'll see either Magma or Lava depths given. I'm not clear on what difference there is between the two fluids. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

:There is none, just the name. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:30, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::both in df, and irl, molten rock in open air is called lava, while subterranean is called magma -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:40, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::: Ah, so magma which is ''Outside'' is lava. Cool. I guess my disjoint areas are all also outside :) I suppose we ought to mention this somewhere on the page? --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 19:19, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

== Magma vs puppy? ==

I have encountered an interesting glitch. I have 2 puppies and a kitten in magma that aren't dying, and yes I have temperature setting on. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-570-magmavspuppy

For those interested in trying to recreate it, I believe it has to do with designating the animal to slaughter while trying to throw it into a pit. A few of my dwarves were having pathing errors to try and slaughter them when I noticed the 3 invulnerable pests. After saving and reloading, the critters were insta-gibbed.
--[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 04:59, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Chasm Confusion ==

"The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores."

Magma, at least in my experience, has always been surrounded only by Obsidian, as a result you cannot get any kind of insight as to the surrounding minerals, this differs from a chasm where the veins coming up to a chasm are directly reflected in the walls.

--[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 04:18, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:volcanoes and magmapipes can form large "chasms" above them, though it depends on how rocky the map is
:Confirmed, various minerals and gems were visible in the 'crater' area two levels above the magma in my magma pipe. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:05, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== gruesome accident in older 2d version ==

beware wooden floodgates
not only do they burn(as I planned)
but i scattered magma all around the room
it rolled around quickly in all directions, flooding the tunnels, burning miners, smelters, war dogs and puppies alike without remorse.
it has thus far filled the entire message screen with " someone" or "something" has burned to death
it appears to gain mass from creeping down hallways! oh god...
60 deaths, at least 25 dwarves and 15 puppies22:08, 28 July 2008 (EDT)[[User:Eerr|Eerr]]

== Magma cooling? ==

Ive noticed at a 1/7 depth, the magma seems to cool and go away. v40d --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:28, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

: That is probably what the author meant by "Magma that is only 1 deep "evaporates" over time." [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 19:58, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

== Mechanisms on Non-Floodgates ==

I want to power my underground smelting operations with magma, so I'm digging a tunnel into the side of a magma pipe. I don't want magma creatures coming in that way, so I need a set of [[bars]] across it. However, once I set up the bars, I need to open them to get a miner past and cut the last bit of stone and open the tunnel to the magma. I was going to just attach the bars to a level, but the question of what to use for the [[mechanism]] is bugging me. I don't want to waste my precious imported [[Bauxite]] on the mechanism, and once it closes behind the miner it never need to open again so it's fine it it melts, but not if the melting mechanism will cause the bars to deconstruct! Anyone know what happens to things other than floodgates when their mechanisms get melted off?
--17:11, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

: Or you could make your life much simpler with [[Fortifications]]. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

:: How? [[Fortification|Fortifications]] allow liquid to pass through and stop creatures, yes, but you can't open them ''at all''. How am I supposed to get my dwarf back after he digs the last square of the channel if there's a fortification blocking the way?--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 15:49, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I used a fortification to keep fire imps out of my magma channel; I dug a stairway totally unconnected to the rest of my fortress to a spot adjacent to the top layer of the magma pipe, then dug a tunnel from within the fortress to within one tile of the stairway. I fortified the tile that separated the two, then dug a channel (from outside) that let the magma flow against the "outside" face of the fortification. The magma flowed through the fortification and into the "inside" tunnel.

:::For good measure, in case I want to drain the inside tunnel at some point, I put an s-turn in the inside tunnel and situated a nickel/bauxite floodgate around the corner, out of sight of the fortification.

:::Viewed from above, basically it looks like this:

~============
~~=====..X...
~~=====.=====
~~=<#...=====
~~===========
~============

~ - Magma pipe
= - Unmined tile (wall)
. - Mined tile (channel)
< - Stairway
# - Fortification
X - Floodgate

:::The last step here is to remove the tile between the magma and the stairway by digging a channel from one z-level up.
:::--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Why do you need a stairway? Couldn't you have just put the fortification on the tile where you have the stairway now? I'm also not sure why you need a turn as opposed to having the floodgate directly in line; i.e. {{qd|cols=7|~|`|╬|{{qd/ch{{!}}X{{!}}888|ccc}}|.|.|.}}
::::[[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:55, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::I believe you can't create a fortification from above, though I could be wrong. It doesn't cost anything to dig one extra z-level down to get yourself a tile with an open face front and back which fortifies up nicely. Also, I put the kink in the tunnel just to be paranoid -- I don't want things shooting fireballs down it. I'm not sure if a fireball can destroy a floodgate. Again, it didn't cost me anything to make it a touch more elaborate.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

::::Well, if I dug in from above, I could just use a non-retracting set of bars. Fortifications allow liquid to flow, but they slow it down. But I'm not digging at the top level of the pipe. I suppose I could just use a sacrificial non-magma-safe floodgate, set up the bars behind it, and then open it and let it melt.
::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:20, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

== Magma Ate My Wall ==
While digging my channel to a magma pipe, I came across a vein of Lignite which ran perpendicular to my channel. I mined it out, hauled the lignite over to my fortress, and then built some walls over the side passages. It's now less than a year later, and one of those wall-units is missing. Unless there's some way a fire imp or other magma creature can destroy walls, the magma must have melted the wall. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 07:12, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:Wasn't that wall a Lignite wall ? It may have burnt, then. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:46, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:Yes, it sounds like it was a liginite wall. Magma will ignite coke-bearing rock, this has been the case for a long time. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:56, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:: No, the wall was built from rock salt. All the lignite was hauled away, and as an economic stone, not a material choice I could have made by accident. The floor is still lignite though. Think that may have been a factor? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:58, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::That's possible, but I find it unlikely. Also, I misinterpreted what you meant by 'built a wall', didn't realize it was a construction. I thought it was a smoothed rock face. It's been a persisting question (at least in #df on synIRC) if magma will melt constructions not made of bauxite. You may have just answered that for us. Perhaps you could test by letting magma into a 5x5 room with one natural rock pillar in the middle, and a wall construction of the same type of stone? That'd answer the question once and for all, I think. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:11, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::I've had magma against some of my constructed walls for years and years without damage. A good thing too, I've got quarters on the other side! They're almost certainly basalt. I wouldn't rule out the vanishing wall being caused by a burning floor; lignite can burn for years before vanishing. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:14, 5 November 2008 (EST)
::::Interesting. It was probably the liginite floor, then, but that begs the question of how a burning floor could consume a wall; stone should be fire-safe. A really interesting situation, to be sure. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::Also -- as for 'not a material choice I could have made by accident', I've found my masons will happily convert expensive imported ores and flux into blocks if they decide your depot's closer than the nearest basalt. And once anything's blocked, it's useless but for constructions. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:39, 5 November 2008 (EST)

::::: @Corona: That's for a mason's workshop, though. When you build walls, you choose the specific rocks to build from. Although, I have to say that I've never had a mason use a rock from the restricted list.
::::: For clarity, here's an image capture. The east-west shaft was my original tunnel towards the magma pipe. Every mined-out tile north or south of that shaft was Lignite. However, the opening just below the cursor, where my missing wall is supposed to be, is listed as Rock Salt as well. This is because dwarves kept building that section of wall from the wrong side, and I had to deconstruct it and put it back up several times -- which kills our "burning lignite floor" theory. Hrm.....now that I think about it, I can't be sure that I did build that wall in the end. I can't remember if a dwarf ever built it from the correct side. I'll let you know if another wall section disappears.
[[Image:romeofalling1.GIF]]

--[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:54, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== Disambiguation ==

I see the term ''magma pipe'' and ''magma vent'' being used interchangeably. Do these terms mean the same thing? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:25, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:Basically, yes. Magma vents, however, are visible from the surface, whereas magma pipes are not. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:26, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Magma Vs. Sand ==

In a failed experiment with wooden screw pumps with magma proof blocks, I have discovered something horrible and intriguing. Magma/lava can burn it's way through sand, so now I have an above ground magma cistern half flooding back into the magma pipe I filled it from, and half into my underground workshops through 2 z-levels of sand flooring. I have picture proof too, but I have no idea how to upload pictures from my laptop to a wiki. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:"Upload file", toolbox, left side of this page.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Ah, thanks. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Do you mean it goes down z-levels, or does it just move across the sand? magma can normally move across anything except water, I think. --[[User:Destor|Destor]] 14:41, 11 November 2008 (EST)
:Vertically, through z-levels. It created a hole that wasn't there before through a sand floor, into my main hallway, and then through the floor there into my workshops and stockpiles. From there, it simply followed the path of least resistance down the stairs and into the living quarters (not shown). The magma seems to only tunnel through floor tiles that have no wall tile below them, which is understandable but I've never had this happen before. Though, admittedly I have never tried to create a lava cistern on top of sand before. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)
<gallery>
Image:DF-0.JPG|Above ground (sorry for large size despite jpeg compression)
Image:DF-1.JPG|1 z-level down (main hallway)
Image:DF-2.JPG|2 z-levels down (workshops and rock, bar, and wood stockpiles)
</gallery>

== Regarding Boatmurdered ==

I have this intense desire to flood the world in magma. (yes, I'm playing the 2D Dwarf Fortress. Sue me.) How did they get the magma onto the surface? Last I checked, pumps don't exist, sooo... --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 02:45, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:Channels and aqueducts... They'll transport any liquid anywhere. And bridges too!--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]]
::But magma's on the "Z-level" below. How's it supposed to get on the actual level of the elephants? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:50, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:::You're still thinking in 3D. Magma is "in" the tiles where the river is, and will be in the tiles where you dig a channel, and you want to get it in the tiles where the elephants are, by digging a channel from the magma river to the outside and "releasing" it from the channel using a floodgate. The miner who digs the part of the channel that connects it to the magma river itself might get killed, since they always stood ''in'' the channel square while digging it in the 2D version. Put a floodgate just beyond it before digging it out so you can shut off the flow, since you will make mistakes.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:36, 28 November 2008 (EST)
::::Yes, I realize I'm thinking in 3D. Exactly how does the magma get out of the channel and onto the ground? Because last I checked, fluids didn't do that naturally. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:44, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:::::That's just the way the 2D version works. Channel next to liquid = liquid now in channel. Tile at end of channel not floodgate (or other liquid stopper) = liquid now on ground. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:47, 28 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Read [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Channel#Game_mechanics Channel] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Irrigation#Controlled_flooding Irrigation] on the archive wiki. You have to play with channels and floodgates for a bit before it all makes sense, though. The 2D version tended to get real kludgy when it came to fluids. Try to get a farm going to understand the basics of the 2D channels, floodgates, and fluids.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:07, 28 November 2008 (EST)

== No little errors ==

I just made a discovery. There is nothing like small error in the terms of magma engineering. After attempting to make my lava moat, I accidentally dug channel one tile longer, than it should be. At first, it went good. But then, magma flowed over my wall and flooded entire fortress. Remember - no little errors. [[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 12:19, 30 November 2008 (EST)

== Export the local map ==

"...you can try exporting the local map of the world which can be much more quickly searched for the distinctive red ≈ symbol. " How does one do that? --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 02:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)
:Right after generating your world, there is an option to export the map. I think it maps to 'p' but I can't swear to it now. I don't know if there is a way to do it at a time other than right after generation. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:45, 4 December 2008 (EST)
::Legends screen lets you export maps as well, but they don't have the special features enabled, even with all applicable options enabled. Probably on the todo list 'somewhere', but can't imagine it's even semi-important. So you'll have to rely on worldgen exports. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::I thought it was just the region map you can export, not the local map, and a red ≈ just means desert and/or red sand on that map. You can see named volcanoes on it though -- red ^s.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:16, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::It's mapped to "P". Capital. [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 21:01, 12 February 2009 (EST)

== Temperature setting ==

While magma will not cause fires while the temperature is turned off in the init file, it seems the game remembers at least some of the fires it would have caused. I was playing with temperature off and tunneled into magma rather carelessly, knowing it wouldn't hurt me, later, when I turned the temperature on in that game, the dwarves that came into contact with the magma were immediately set on fire. This was about a year later in game. I checked back several times by quitting without saving, every time I turned the temperature on, those same dwarves caught fire, with the temperature off, there was no indication of fire what so ever.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 23:36, 23 January 2009 (EST)

:Oh wow, I can imagine tons of uses for that, especially when toady makes it so that you can go and raid the goblins... Kamikaze dwarves, anyone? Well, I guess it should be in the article, but it would be nice to do more testing first. I think that if a dwarf falls in water, he stops burning. So if you could find out if they, after being put out with temperature off, still lit up next time we could put it in. Do more research, I would but I have had trouble with DF lately, it has been mad slow.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 00:01, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::Well, temperatures are flows, and items remember how warm they are, so presumably the dwarves that burst into flames are still at a ridiculous temperature and haven't cooled down. That, or the coating of magma on their bodies is causing them to burn...--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 00:36, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::: It has got to be the coating, as you say. Turning off the tempurature means that they should STOP remembering. The flows should not be calculated, and the items should have nothing to remember. Thats why turning it off speeds up the game, especially in extreme environs or around magma. There was, however, nothing listed that I could find, so this "magma coating" is invisible to the interface. It should also be noted that it was apparently the dwarves who caught fire first, and their burning flesh that apparently set their clothes on fire moments later.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 12:29, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::::Check specifically for magma splatters on the dwarfs in question. I wouldn't be surprised if they picked them up, similar to when creatures get doused in water. The liquid tends to stick all over them, and rarely goes away on it's own. Best bet to preserve them would be to construct a waterfall-shower, and hope it washes away the magma spatter, rather than creating obsidian ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:11, 25 January 2009 (EST)
:::::Yer, looks like the dawrfs got their Pigtail socks a coating of magma. Then magma goes boom.--[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 08:08, 19 February 2009 (EST)

==Site finder==

Will magma Pipes always show up on the local map? Because my site finder keeps throwing up sites with no visible magma on the local map. --[[User:ArneHD|ArneHD]] 17:09, 12 February 2009 (EST)

:No, magma pipes don't always reach the surface, and therefore won't always show up on the embark map. You can find out it's actual location by taking a guess based off of what stone layers are shown where in the embark map, or you can go to your init.txt and change SHOW_EMBARK_M_PIPE to ALWAYS. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 17:29, 12 February 2009 (EST)

== Magma-swimming Baby ==

For some reason, someone has dropped their baby into the magma. The strange thing is, it aint burning up. Its lying there, and apparently has done so for a long time. Its hungry and thirsty. --[[User:Myroc|Myroc]] 15:26, 21 February 2009 (EST)
:I once had a mother get trapped behind a magma bulkhead with her baby. She died promptly. The baby just sorta sat in the magma flow for about a year before it died too. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:40, 21 February 2009 (EST)

== Spawn Distance For Creatures? ==

How far from the magma pipe can fire snakes (and imps, if they spawn) appear? Also, are they limited to spawning near the magma pipe itself, or ANY magma (i.e., a magma tap leading across the map into your fortress)?
:The pipe itself--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Hidden Magma Pipe ==
So I just got the message 'You have discovered a magma pipe.' This made me very happy, because I had no idea that magma was on my map, and the area is completely devoid of trees, which means I won't have to worry about charcoal as much. Anywhos, after getting the message and looking around the level... I can't find it anywhere! I assumed that you get the message when your dwarf mines a tile next to the pipe or something, but I can't find it anywhere, not even on the local map. Magma forges are enabled, so that must mean that I did find one... But is there any way of finding the darn thing? I assumed it was from some of my exploratory mining, but after looking around that area and even digging further into the rock, I don't see anything. Is it possible that the magma pipe is off the level or something, so I get the message but can't see it? Arg, this is so annoying. --[[User:ZombieRoboNinja|ZombieRoboNinja]] 00:34, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:Try zooming in on any magma related creatures from the units menu. You could also zoom in on the newest (last) obsidian stone listed on the stocks menu I think. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 04:21, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:Check for a [[Magma#Using_magma|Magma Cap]]. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:12, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

::I tried looking at the units list... Only a couple dead kobolds, a few camels, and my dwarves... So that's a no go. And there are 15 obsidian stones in my stocks, but the zoom function is grayed out... And my bookkeeper is at 100% efficiency. I also tried looking for a magma cap, but I couldn't find one. Aha! Success! I made an obsidian stockpile, and watched where my all-knowing dwarves went, and I found the source of the obsidian. I tried digging from that point, and I found it! It's a bit small, but I suppose the diameter doesn't matter much when it's a magma pipe. Thanks for your help, guys. Also, I know that talk pages aren't meant to be used as forums or anything, but is it against the rules and/or frowned upon to ask questions on the talk pages?

::: It's fine, it might even be a good thing, since we can add other tidbit of information to a main article if needed. Feel free to ask question (as long as it is in the appropriate place. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 13:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

== Items Caught In Cooling Magma ==
After one of my wrestlers got pulled into a magma vent, I noticed that his Steel equipment only sank a single Z level. This brings up the idea that, if I were to pour water over the surface and harden that Z level, I could presumably recover the equipment. But will items caught in hardening magma be destroyed? Or merely trapped in obsidian that you can mine out? --[[User:Scarecrow|Scarecrow]] 16:37, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:Hm, good question. Wouldn't it make sense that the item just gets trapped, and you just have to mine out the hardened rock to get the item back? That is, if it's resistant to magma and/or the temperature's off. Right? Why would cooling the magma destroy the object? Unless the game had it coded where like, a tile of stone being created removes all the items from the block. Which would suck.{{unsigned|ZombieRoboNinja}}

:: Items lost in rivers or moats can be recovered by mining the ice in winter. It is not unreasonable to assume that magma/obsidian behaves like water/ice in this respect. This begs testing, obviously. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 21:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Metalsmith

2009-05-04T20:10:41Z

Aykavil: /* Training Metalsmith */

This page is a duplicate of [[metalsmith's forge]]. Since the category box list [[metalsmith's forge]], I'd suggest that this page is either deleted or integrated with the category box page. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 17:57, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:This page has much more info than [[Metalsmith's forge]]. Suggested action: Move, deleting old page --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 21:02, 18 November 2007 (EST)
::Please see [[Talk:Metalsmith's forge|Metalsmith's forge talk page]] for more information on a merger between the two pages. Let's use the other talk page instead of this one to discuss this. [[User:FFLaguna|FFLaguna]] 18:42, 2 December 2007 (EST)

== Legendary Metalsmith ==

I had a dwarf craft an artifact iron bed and now he is a "Legendary Metalsmith".

Does this mean he has a legendary skill level in all metalsmith-related jobs, or is it limited to, say, metalcrafting?

--[[User:Pizzapie|Pizzapie]] 12:59, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

:[[Blacksmith]]ing, I would guess, actually. That is to say, making [[furniture]] at the forge. [[Throne]]s, [[door]]s, [[table]]s, et cetera. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 15:23, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

Yes, from the blacksmithing page it makes sense.

Not the most useful skill to attain legendary status in. Thanks for the help.
--[[User:Pizzapie|Pizzapie]] 18:37, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

== Training Metalsmith ==

What is the best way to train metalsmith? I would think it would be buckets, because they only take 1 bar. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 22:06, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
:PS. This raises the question of why I am doing this. Terribly good question. Reevaluating this.
:: Masterfully crafted aluminum statues? [[User:Decius|Decius]] 23:18, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
:::Masterfully crafted steel anvils. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:59, 16 April 2009 (UTC) They weigh a ton, but they are worth a fortune.
::::Melt metal items works charms.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Dim3tapp|Dim3tapp]]
:::::THAT TRAINS FURNACE OPERATOR. Not metalsmith. I'm reverting your edit.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:21, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
::::::Surprisingly, it doesn't :) – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Dim3tapp|Dim3tapp]]
: Metal [[bridge]]s. They are totally recyclable. They train [[Building designer]] as a bonus. (This method is perhaps a bit slow). --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 20:10, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

40d:Floodgate

2009-04-30T11:34:15Z

Aykavil: /* Placement */ verified vertical floodgate placement

A '''floodgate''' is an object used to regulate the flow of fluids, such as [[water]] and [[magma]]. 
They can be built from [[rock]] (at a [[mason's workshop]]), [[wood]] (at a [[carpenter's workshop]]), [[metal]] (at a [[metalsmith's forge]]), or [[glass]] (at a [[glass furnace]]). 
== Placement ==
Floodgates must be built on solid [[floor]] (i.e. not over a channel). Dwarves must be able to stand orthogonally to the floodgate in order to build it. In order to control a vertical water flow, a solution is to build the floodgate on a constructed [[wall]], and then remove the wall.

Floodgates generally have to be built prior to flooding the area (obvious for [[magma]], isn't it?) but can still be built at a [[water]] level of 1/7.

If there is no roof above a floodgate nor above an incoming water flow that comes from a source with higher elevation, the water can spill over the floodgate. See the [[pressure]] article for more information.

[[Dwarves]] often like to stand on the wrong side of the floodgate they are constructing so that they may conveniently decline any subsequent labor. They'll sit there with their feet propped up on a conveinent rock, twiddling their thumbs until such time as the floodgate is opened mechanically or deconstructed. To avoid this situation you should build something on the tile you ''don't'' want them to stand on, <tt>Suspend</tt> its construction until the floodgate is complete, and <tt>Cancel</tt> its construction when you're finished.

== Activation ==
Floodgates have to be linked to [[lever]]s or [[pressure plate]]s to allow them to be opened and closed <s>remotely</s> at all. An open floodgate also can be walked through, whereas a closed one can not.
Once activated, it will take approximately 100 steps for the floodgate to open or close: the same as [[bridge]]s.

== Floodgates vs Magma ==
Closed floodgates of any material will resist magma, much like constructed [[wall]]s. However, once a [[magma]] floodgate is opened, the magma will flow though and destroy:
* the floodgate itself if it was not made of [[magma-safe materials]].
* the [[mechanism]] if it was not made of [[magma-safe materials]] ([[bauxite]] or [[raw adamantine]]), thus deconstructing the floodgate.

== Uses ==
A water floodgate connected to a [[river]] can be opened to create a shallow pool, then closed, the pool then be drained or allowed to evaporate. The resulting [[mud]] can be used for [[underground]] [[farm]]s. Standing water can be used for drinking, or sufficiently rushing water used as a defense against invaders.

A floodgate can also be used to cover [[fortification]]s when they are not being used. This will prevent enemies from firing into your fort through the fortifications, and can be useful if your [[marksdwarf]]s arrive at the fortification one at a time.

Unlike doors, floodgates can be built directly adjacent to each other; that is, floodgates do not require an adjacent wall. This allows [[channel]]s wider than two squares to be regulated. This characteristic also permits for the construction of "siege doors", allowing areas wider than two tiles to be sealed off from the enemy. For instance, the three tile wide access point for a [[Trade Depot]] within the fortress can be closed down into a chokepoint with floodgates and a lever, giving your marksdwarves more of a chance to shoot invaders.

Using floodgates to halt or reroute enemies must be planned carefully, as large creatures such as [[Troll]]s can destroy floodgates.

{{Buildings}}
[[Category:Furniture]]

40d:Floodgate

2009-04-30T10:58:54Z

Aykavil: /* Placement */

A '''floodgate''' is an object used to regulate the flow of fluids, such as [[water]] and [[magma]]. 
They can be built from [[rock]] (at a [[mason's workshop]]), [[wood]] (at a [[carpenter's workshop]]), [[metal]] (at a [[metalsmith's forge]]), or [[glass]] (at a [[glass furnace]]). 
== Placement ==
Floodgates must be built on solid [[floor]] (i.e. not over a channel). Dwarves must be able to stand orthogonally to the floodgate in order to build it. In order to control a vertical water flow, a solution is to build the floodgate on a constructed [[wall]], and then remove the wall{{verify}}.

Floodgates generally have to be built prior to flooding the area (obvious for [[magma]], isn't it?) but can still be built at a [[water]] level of 1/7.

If there is no roof above a floodgate nor above an incoming water flow that comes from a source with higher elevation, the water can spill over the floodgate. See the [[pressure]] article for more information.

[[Dwarves]] often like to stand on the wrong side of the floodgate they are constructing so that they may conveniently decline any subsequent labor. They'll sit there with their feet propped up on a conveinent rock, twiddling their thumbs until such time as the floodgate is opened mechanically or deconstructed. To avoid this situation you should build something on the tile you ''don't'' want them to stand on, <tt>Suspend</tt> its construction until the floodgate is complete, and <tt>Cancel</tt> its construction when you're finished.

== Activation ==
Floodgates have to be linked to [[lever]]s or [[pressure plate]]s to allow them to be opened and closed <s>remotely</s> at all. An open floodgate also can be walked through, whereas a closed one can not.
Once activated, it will take approximately 100 steps for the floodgate to open or close: the same as [[bridge]]s.

== Floodgates vs Magma ==
Closed floodgates of any material will resist magma, much like constructed [[wall]]s. However, once a [[magma]] floodgate is opened, the magma will flow though and destroy:
* the floodgate itself if it was not made of [[magma-safe materials]].
* the [[mechanism]] if it was not made of [[magma-safe materials]] ([[bauxite]] or [[raw adamantine]]), thus deconstructing the floodgate.

== Uses ==
A water floodgate connected to a [[river]] can be opened to create a shallow pool, then closed, the pool then be drained or allowed to evaporate. The resulting [[mud]] can be used for [[underground]] [[farm]]s. Standing water can be used for drinking, or sufficiently rushing water used as a defense against invaders.

A floodgate can also be used to cover [[fortification]]s when they are not being used. This will prevent enemies from firing into your fort through the fortifications, and can be useful if your [[marksdwarf]]s arrive at the fortification one at a time.

Unlike doors, floodgates can be built directly adjacent to each other; that is, floodgates do not require an adjacent wall. This allows [[channel]]s wider than two squares to be regulated. This characteristic also permits for the construction of "siege doors", allowing areas wider than two tiles to be sealed off from the enemy. For instance, the three tile wide access point for a [[Trade Depot]] within the fortress can be closed down into a chokepoint with floodgates and a lever, giving your marksdwarves more of a chance to shoot invaders.

Using floodgates to halt or reroute enemies must be planned carefully, as large creatures such as [[Troll]]s can destroy floodgates.

{{Buildings}}
[[Category:Furniture]]

40d:Furnace

2009-04-29T19:54:43Z

Aykavil: misc corrections

A '''furnace''' is a building used to heat materials. It can be powered by [[fuel]] or, in the case of magma furnaces, by the heat from [[magma]]. Every furnace must be built from [[fire-safe materials]] and designed by a [[building designer]]. Magma furnaces must also be placed with one of their edge tiles above magma with depth of 4 or more; this can be accomplished by digging a channel for the magma. Other than these requirements, they are identical to [[workshops]].

== [[Wood furnace]] ==

Shortcut {{k|b}}{{k|e}}{{k|w}} 
Materials used – [[wood]] 
Items made – [[ash]], [[charcoal]]

== [[Smelter]] ==

Shortcut {{k|b}}{{k|e}}{{k|s}} 
Materials used – [[bituminous coal]], [[lignite]], [[ore]], [[metal bars]],[[flux]], [[fuel]] 
Items made – [[coke]], metal bars, [[alloys]]

== [[Glass furnace]] ==

Shortcut {{k|b}}{{k|e}}{{k|g}} 
Materials used – [[sand]], [[pearlash]], [[rock crystal]], [[fuel]] 
Items made – [[glass]] objects

== [[Kiln]] ==

Shortcut {{k|b}}{{k|e}}{{k|k}} 
Materials used – [[potash]], [[fuel]] 
Items made – [[pearlash]]

== [[Magma smelter]] ==

Shortcut {{k|b}}{{k|e}}{{k|l}} 
Materials used – [[bituminous coal]], [[lignite]], [[ore]], [[metal bars]],[[flux]], [[fuel]] for [[pig iron]] and [[steel]] 
Items made – [[coke]], [[metal]] bars, [[alloys]]

== [[Magma glass furnace]] ==

Shortcut {{k|b}}{{k|e}}{{k|a}} 
Materials used – [[sand]], [[pearlash]], [[rock crystal]] 
Items made – [[glass]] objects

== [[Magma kiln]] ==

Shortcut {{k|b}}{{k|e}}{{k|n}} 
Materials used – [[potash]] 
Items made – [[pearlash]]

{{Buildings}}
[[Category:Furnaces]]

40d:Furnace

2009-04-29T14:49:08Z

Aykavil:

A '''furnace''' is a building used to heat materials. It can be powered by [[fuel]] or, in the case of magma furnaces, by the heat from [[magma]]. Every furnace must be built from [[fire-safe materials]]. Magma furnaces must also be placed with one of their edge tiles above magma with depth of 4 or more; this can be accomplished by digging a channel for the magma. Other than these requirements, they are identical to [[workshops]].

== [[Wood furnace]] ==

Shortcut {{k|b}}{{k|e}}{{k|w}} 
Materials used – [[wood]] 
Items made – [[ash]], [[charcoal]]

== [[Smelter]] ==

Shortcut {{k|b}}{{k|e}}{{k|s}} 
Materials used – [[ore]], [[flux]], [[fuel]] 
Items made – [[metal]] bars, [[coke]]

== [[Glass furnace]] ==

Shortcut {{k|b}}{{k|e}}{{k|g}} 
Materials used – [[Sand]], [[Rock crystal]], [[Pearlash]], [[fuel]] 
Items made – Green [[glass]], Crystal glass, Clear glass

== [[Kiln]] ==

Shortcut {{k|b}}{{k|e}}{{k|k}} 
Materials used – [[Potash]], [[fuel]] 
Items made – [[Pearlash]]

== [[Magma smelter]] ==

Shortcut {{k|b}}{{k|e}}{{k|l}} 
Materials used – [[metal]] [[ore]]s, [[flux]], [[fuel]] for [[pig iron]] and [[steel]] 
Items made – metal [[bars]]

== [[Magma glass furnace]] ==

Shortcut {{k|b}}{{k|e}}{{k|a}} 
Materials used – [[Sand]], [[Pearlash]], Rock crystal 
Items made – [[Glass]] objects

== [[Magma kiln]] ==

Shortcut {{k|b}}{{k|e}}{{k|n}} 
Materials used – [[Potash]] 
Items made – [[Pearlash]]

{{Buildings}}
[[Category:Furnaces]]

40d:Wood cutter

2009-04-29T14:37:42Z

Aykavil: links to wood

{{Skill
| color = rgb(255,255,0)
| skill = Wood Cutter
| speciality = Woodcutter
| profession = [[Woodworker]]
| job name = [[Wood Cutting]]
| tasks =
* Chop down trees
}}
A '''wood cutter''' cuts down [[tree]]s to create [[wood]] logs.

To employ a wood cutter, give him the [[wood cutting]] labor, and [[Designations|designate]] some trees for logging. An [[axe]] is needed to perform this job.

This skill increases rapidly. With an ample supply of trees, a dedicated wood cutter who does not do his own wood [[hauling]] can reach legendary status in well under a year, and can singlehandedly meet the lumber needs of most types of fortresses. A single [[dwarf]] can also function well as a dedicated wood cutter ''and'' [[Plant gathering|plant gatherer]], provided that this dwarf is not your sole food provider. It may be worthwhile to give him some points in [[axedwarf]], making him a decent soldier if necessary.

A dwarf cannot have both the [[Mining]] and Wood Cutting labors enabled, as doing so would require them to dual-wield an axe and a pick. Setting dwarves which must work outside to Wood Cutting can be a good idea, as it means they will carry axes with them at all times-though this also means that they will usually interrupt anything they're doing to go chop trees.

{{Skills}}
[[Category:Jobs]]

40d:Mason

2009-04-29T14:06:38Z

Aykavil: rewrite

{{Skill
| color = #fff
| skill = Mason
| speciality = Mason
| profession = [[Stoneworker]]
| job name = Masonry
| tasks =
* [[Construction]] (stone)
* Work in [[Mason's workshop]]
| workshop = [[Mason's workshop]]
}}
'''Masons''' are responsible for creating [[furniture]] and other objects out of [[stone]] in a [[mason's workshop]]. Masonry is also required for building [[construction]]s ([[wall]]s, [[floor]]s, etc.) out of stone, stone [[block]]s or [[glass]] blocks.

{| {{prettytable}}
|- style="background:#dddddd"
! !! Masonry... !! !! !!
|- style="background:#dddddd"
! Task !! [[labor]] needed !! [[experience]] granted !! [[skill]] affects [[quality]] !! skill affects speed
|-
| working in a [[mason's workshop]] || yes || yes || yes || yes
|-
| building [[architecture|designed]] constructions made from stone or glass ([[trade depot]]s, [[archery target]]s, [[support]]s, [[bridge]]s, all [[furnace]]s, etc.) || yes || yes || yes || no{{verify}}
|-
| building paved [[road]]s || no || yes || no{{verify}} || no{{verify}}
|-
| building other constructions made from stone or glass ([[wall]]s, [[stair]]s, etc.) || yes || no || no || no{{verify}}
|-
|}

As stone is plentiful in even the newest fort, and the [[table]]s, [[chair]]s and [[door]]s a mason can build are immediately desirable, bringing a mason along is a sensible choice in any [[starting build]].

{{Skills}}
[[Category:Jobs]]

40d:Embark

2009-04-29T09:25:36Z

Aykavil:

'''"Embark"''' is a general term that refers to the very beginning of the game, during or immediately following site selection but before actual game play begins. It is used to refer to any choices during that period - site selection, equipment or [[skill]]s selected for your starting 7 dwarfs (or the "Play Now" option), and the actual "landing" on your new site, the 7 dwarfs and any animals around the wagon filled with supplies.

Examples -

:* "I made a big mistake at embark when I forgot..."
:* "I knew I was in trouble when I got attacked on embark..."
:* "This is one of the choices you need(ed) to make at embark, before the game..."
:* "After embark the first thing you want to do is..."
:* "Once you've embarked, that's when the [[fun]] starts..."

"Embark options" can refer to
:* choosing starting skills, equipment and supplies (aka [[Starting build]]),
:* site selection, possibly using the <f>ind function to help locate an acceptable site for your fortress.

''(Need a quick list of Embark screen features, with links to full pages)''

40d:Embark

2009-04-29T09:22:55Z

Aykavil: starting equipment&skills = starting build

'''"Embark"''' is a general term that refers to the very beginning of the game, during or immediately following site selection but before actual game play begins. It is used to refer to any choices during that period - site selection, equipment or [[skill]]s selected for your starting 7 dwarfs (or the "Play Now" option), and the actual "landing" on your new site, the 7 dwarfs and any animals around the wagon filled with supplies.

Examples -

:* "I made a big mistake at embark when I forgot..."
:* "I knew I was in trouble when I got attacked on embark..."
:* "This is one of the choices you need(ed) to make at embark, before the game..."
:* "After embark the first thing you want to do is..."
:* "Once you've embarked, that's when the [[fun]] starts..."

"Embark options" can refer to
:* choosing starting skills, starting and supplies (aka [[Starting build]]),
:* site selection, possibly using the <f>ind function to help locate an acceptable site for your fortress.

''(Need a quick list of Embark screen features, with links to full pages)''

40d:Size

2009-04-29T09:13:22Z

Aykavil: clothing

How "big" the [[creature]] is. '''Size''' determines what kind of equipment a creature can wear, how much [[damage]] they can absorb, and how much damage they can inflict in melee. A butchered creature gives a number of [[chunks]], [[meat]] and [[bone]]s equal to the creature's size.

{| {{prettytable}}
|- style="background:#dddddd"
! Creature !! Size !! Clothing
|-
| [[Groundhog]] || 2 || -
|-
| [[Carp]], [[Cat]] || 3 || -
|-
| [[Mandrill]], [[Dog]] || 5 || -
|-
| [[Kobold]] || 5 || small
|-
| [[Goblin]] || 6 || narrow
|-
| [[Dwarf]] || 6 || ''normal''
|-
| [[Elf]], [[Human]] || 7 || large
|-
| [[Donkey]] || 7 || -
|-
| [[Mule]] || 8 || -
|-
| [[Cow]], [[Grizzly bear]], [[Horse]] || 9 || -
|-
| [[Sturgeon]] || 10 || -
|-
| [[Elephant]] || 16 || -
|-
| [[Dragon]] || 20 || -
|}

[[Category:Creatures]]

40d Talk:Bars

2009-04-28T20:04:40Z

Aykavil:

To be tested: on what conditions does water passing through bars creates mist, is it possible to shoot through bars? [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 06:59, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I think I read Toady saying that there was no functional difference between grates and bars, (horizontal or vertical) at the moment, so if you can shoot through grates, you can shoot through bars.

This page violates '''N''', and should be swapped with [[bar]] --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:05, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
: "The exceptions are terms that are always plural and proper nouns." Bars (construction) are always plural in the game, unless you speak about [[metal]] bars. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 13:22, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
::In which case [[bar]] should redirect to [[metal]] instead of here. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
:::I would agree with that. However, as things are, the page ''Bars'' indicates the page ''Metal'' if one thought of metal bar. I can't think of a simple way to indicate the page ''Bars'' on the ''Metal'' one in case one typed ''bar'' that doesn't sound silly for all the other users who just type ''metal''.--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 20:04, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

40d:Alcohol

2009-04-28T15:02:09Z

Aykavil: /* Brewing */

'''Alcohol''' is one of the staples of the dwarven diet; it quenches their [[thirst]] and gives them positive [[thoughts]]. Healthy dwarves will drink alcohol exclusively when available. When dwarves are forced to drink [[water]], they begin to work slowly from alcohol dependency. Alcohol can be brewed at a [[still]], brought with you from the embark screen or [[trade]]d with visiting caravans.

[[:Image:Sober.jpg|Sobriety has no place in the fortress.]]

===Brewing===
To brew alcohol at a [[still]] requires a [[#Brewable_plants|brewable plant]] and an empty [[barrel]]. Every unit of plant produces 5 units of alcohol. Brewing enough alcohol for even a medium-sized population requires a lot of barrels; be sure to keep plenty near to hand.

A single ''stack'' of plants will be brewed in one go, and the resulting booze will be placed into a single barrel - a stack of ''Plump Helmet [5]'' will produce ''Dwarven Wine [25]'', and will only occupy a single barrel. Skilled [[grower]]s, who tend to harvest larger stacks, can therefore reduce the number of barrels required to store alcohol, which in turn minimizes the required stockpile size. Brewing (unlike cooking) also yields plantable [[seed]]s.

===Consumption===
A healthy adult [[dwarf]] consumes approximately 18 units of drink per year. Each drink consists of the dwarf walking to a free barrel (one not already being drunk from), upending it over his alcohol-intake orifice ([[mug]]s are for simpering [[human]]s), and liquoring up. Because dwarves tipple so frequently, the main liquor stash is often the second-most heavily populated area of the fort (right after the main [[meeting|meeting area]]) and [[dwarves]] spend much time walking to and from it. So: The booze should be both secure and accessible.

===Cooking===
Since a single brewable item will produce five units of alcohol, and each unit of alcohol can be cooked directly into [[food]], it is advisable to brew any plants you intend to cook. In this manner, you may produce five times the food you would from simply growing and then cooking your crops. Be wary though, as you need to ensure enough remains behind for drinking. Note that some consider this an [[exploit]], and [[Toady]] plans to revamp the whole cooking system in the future, and in the process disallow the use of booze (as well as things like seeds and syrup) as a food substrate.

===Happiness===
Dwarves get happy thoughts from drinking. The intensity of this buzz depends on the [[quality]] of the drink and whether it matches the dwarf's personal [[preferences]]. The quality of a drink is a hidden value (with no effect on price) which improves with the skill of the [[brewer]]. It is unknown whether high-value liquors (like [[#Grown_Outside|sunshine]]) boost feelings more than low-value ones (like [[#Grown_Outside|gutter cruor]]){{verify}}. We do know that dwarves prefer to drink them. Dwarves also prefer a variety of alcohols to choose from, and they will get unhappy thoughts from drinking the same old booze every day.

===Wounded dwarves===
Wounded dwarves will not drink alcohol; they must be given [[water]] by a caretaker with a [[bucket]]. Therefore, a [[fortress]] cannot survive on alcohol in the absence of drinking water, unless dwarves are abandoned when wounded.

A dwarf with a permanent injury to his or her nervous system will be bedridden for life and will never again drink alcohol, and upon inspection will have the thought "He needs alcohol to get through the working day, and he can't remember the last time he had some!" You may wish to put these poor dwarves out of their misery.

===Great balls of fire!===
Keep alcohol away from fire. Igniting the stuff will cause a ball of fire that can easily kill or injure your dwarves. At this time very little research has been done regarding alcohol bombs. It is possible that the dramatic coloring is just the evaporated alcohol, and any damage to dwarves is actually caused by the source of the fire, not the booze vapors. For an example see both [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-42-boozeexplosion this movie] and [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-934-boozeexplodingbecauseofforestfire this one] at the DFMA.

=== Brewable plants ===

==== Grown inside ====

{|border=1 width="50%"
|-
! width="40%"|Ingredient
! width="50%"|Beverage Produced
! width="10%" align="center"|Beverage Value
|-
| [[Pig tail]]
| Dwarven Ale
| 2
|-
| [[Cave wheat]]
| Dwarven Beer
| 2
|-
| [[Sweet pod]]
| Dwarven Rum
| 2
|-
| [[Plump helmet]]
| Dwarven Wine
| 2
|}

====Grown Outside====
{|border=1 width="50%"
|-
! width="40%"|Ingredient
! width="50%"|Beverage Produced
! width="10%"|Beverage Value
|-
| [[Sun berry]]
| Sunshine
| 5
|-
| [[Whip vine]]
| Whip Wine
| 3
|-
| [[Rope reed]]
| River Spirits
| 2
|-
| [[Fisher berry]]
| Fisher Berry Wine
| 2
|-
| [[Longland grass]]
| Longland Beer
| 2
|-
| [[Wild strawberry]]
| Strawberry Wine
| 2
|-
| [[Bloated tuber]]
| Tuber Beer
| 2
|-
| [[Prickle berry]]
| Prickle Berry Wine
| 1
|-
| [[Rat weed]]
| Sewer Brew
| 1
|-
| [[Sliver barb]]
| Gutter Cruor
| 1
|-
| [[Muck root]]
| Swamp Whiskey
| 1
|}

===Not Brewable===
Plants that cannot be brewed include:
* [[Quarry bush]]
* [[Dimple cup]]
* [[Blade weed]]
* [[Hide root]]
* [[Kobold bulb]]
* [[Valley herb]]

[[Category:Food]]

=== Overview ===
This a complete chart showing possible plant uses[[Image:Df-crops-diagram.png|thumb|240px]].

40d Talk:Murky pool

2009-04-28T14:53:31Z

Aykavil:

"Drinking from a murky pool will give dwarves an unhappy thought."

But drinking from a well that is fed by a murky pool via a channel is okay?

Yes it works exactly like that. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 17:13, 12 February 2008 (EST)
:Water will still be stagnant. Dunno if this does something. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 21:19, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

"Murky pool can (will?) completely drain in summer."

This detail needs clarification. According to my experience, it varies by the temperature of the region; I believe spading is in order. [[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 9:58, 2 April 2008 (EST)

== Can a murky pool be re-designated? ==

I accidentally dug into the bottom of an outdoor pool (darn diagonals) and the pool drained into my silt/loam farming rooms. After the water dried out (adding a muddy element to my farms) I was left with the murky pool. Can't build a farm plot on it. Before removing it, I was wondering if I covered it by adding floor above it, could it be used somehow when it changes from outdoor to inside?--[[User:Dwarven Gemologist|Gemmy]] 15:06, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

:Seems it would be quite possible. Feel free to try it and report your results. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:51, 3 May 2008 (EDT)
::Just farm aboveground plants. Many of them are better than underground ones in many ways. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 21:21, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

The information here may be outdated. With an unmodified version of v0.28.181.40d I was able to channel out the tiles in a murky pool after draining it. Can anyone else try this and confirm? [[User:Forsaken1111|Forsaken1111]] 22:16, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

== Refilling ==

I have seen murky pools refilled by rain, sometimes all the way, sometimes partially, sometimes not at all. I believe it has to do with the amount of rain versus the ambient temperature (and therefore evaporation rate). --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 15:58, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
:Yeah, pools definitely refill after the rains. I've been using a conveinent murky pool as a flood reservoir for defense. Every spring, it refills just fine. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:02, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

:My current fort's on a hot map, so my pools never fill beyond a mix of 1/7 and 2/7 during the rains. Got a brook, though, so I ignore them anyway.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:39, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

== Removing ==
Contrary to what the article says, it doesn't seem possible to build a dirt road on pool tiles. Building/removing a paved road works fine though. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 14:53, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Main Page/Quote

2009-04-24T14:58:47Z

Aykavil: Quote from hilarious story in the Stories page

{{Choose|c={{#if: {{{1|}}}|{{rand|65}}|{{#expr: ({{rand2|10}}+55)}} }}
|I can't put my finger on it. Something about this [[Fire|‼]]Cat tallow roast[[Fire|‼]] tastes funny.
|Toady withdraws from society. Toady has begun a [[Strange_mood|mysterious]] construction!
|Let us never forget the last words of Inod the Stoker, [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fortress_Paintrag#1056 "Aaah! Gorillas!"]
|[[Children|Newborn]] Zuglar Baldnessgranite prefers to consume Gorilla. A sure sign of his unparalleled strength!
|[http://www.somethingawful.com/d/video-game-article/duke-nukem-image.php In an unrelated article] - I had no idea elephants could bounce that high!
|[[Toady]] looses a roaring laughter, [[Fey|fell]] and terrible! Toady has butchered a spammer!
|The critical question is this''':''' do elf bones yield more crossbow bolts than the average number of bolts necessary to kill an elf?
|"Dwarf Fortress" ... "Like chess, only with short people that can catch on [[fire]] like [[clothing|rags]] soaked in tar, and lots of [[booze]]." ... "Like chess."
|Dwarf Fortress has taught me that all the world's problems would be substantially reduced had our parent civilizations never minted more than four stacks of [[coins]].
|Booze does all the work in forts. Dwarves are just booze exoskeletons.
|My unconscious and bleeding [[mayor]] just mandated the construction of some goods.
|I can just imagine a wagon throwing a tantrum and tossing all its contents at people.
|Döbesh Udosdeb has been ecstatic lately. He was forced to eat a friend to survive. He enjoyed a truly decadent meal.
|Iron [[screw pump]] exercise equipment. Pump iron and get superdwarvenly strong!
|The violence, aggression, pain, madness, sadness of the ASCII characters never ceases to amaze me...
|Wait, you're MAKING animals? —''Torak'' At this moment, yes, I am smelting cows. —''Spiders Everywhere''
|"Didn't you read the manual? He he he he... the manual... ..." --[[Toady One]]
|(Compared to real-world years) Dwarven years are shorter. --Sowelu Very fitting to dwarves, I must add. --Sean Mirrsen
|[[Magma]] is not a [[water]] source. Dwarves can't drink it or supply it to their wounded. --[[User:AlienChickenPie|AlienChickenPie]]
|"<nowiki>[B]</nowiki>oats are the enemy of tiles. And tiles are the enemy of boats." --[[Toady One]]
|"I went through and fixed a few places where forbidden/on fire weren't being respected for next time. Burning milkable creatures were still a problem for example." --[[Toady One]]
|"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]
|"What happened in 1048?" "Jreengus occurred."
|Making rock instruments isn't nearly as awesome as it sounds --Shandrunn
|The cyclops I was quested to kill had a thousand year history of badassery, and all of that without the leg it lost in the Year 3 (a dwarf bit it off... I should probably deal with that). --[[Toady One]]
|[FIREIMMUNE] makes them think that [[magma]] is safe but doesn't actually make them fireproof. This can lead to some rather interesting results.
|Endok Cerolneth has begun a mysterious construction!
Endok Cerolneth, Planter has given birth to a girl.
|"Incendia sunt socia vestra, armaque vestra, fortesque Montis Domi." "Magma is your ally, your weapon, the strength of the Mountain-Home." --Eita
|"Stopped people from giving quests to kill themselves." --[[Toady One]]
|"...And I simply doubt we have a need for 7 fishery workers. On top of that, a second soap maker. The hell IS soap?!" --Zero
|"This is a terrible pun. All craftsdwarfship is of the poorest quality." - [http://tinyurl.com/6yruly Soup_alex]
|"The default mental state of a dwarf is madness. Sanity is a temporary condition - a PRIVILEGE you have to EARN!" --[[User:Fedor|Fedor]]
|"Why get normal cats? I buy lolcats in the embark screen. Much more fun to engrave about them." --Yanlin
|"Dwarf Fortress taught me it was okay to make a suit out of my neighbour's skin, as long as I gave it a name."
|"Got rid of world gen crash during succession after death of prolific long-standing position holders with inbred descendants" --[[Toady One]]
|"There was a typo in the siegers' campfire code. When the fires went out, so did the game." --[[Toady One]]
|"Hey, what does that flashing red and orange text mean? What? Why is there smoke everywhere? Oh god, are those BABIES on fire?" --[[User:StrawberryBunny|StrawberryBunny]]
|"It's never 'just a game' when you're losing." --George Carlin (if he played Dwarf Fortress)
|Not that building a bridge out of soap makes much sense to begin with anyway.
|Note that while you cannot milk larger animals yourself, civilizations can still milk animals "off screen" for your benefit.
|Tosid Idenarzes likes tentacle demons for their corrupt intentions. "There! Now we've covered all of the seven deadly sins."
|"Litast Idenudesh, baby, is throwing a tantrum! Inod Litastrilem, Mayor, has lost consciousness. Inod Litastrilem, Mayor, has bled to death."
|"Known bug #780: Town guard becomes a criminal after getting an adventurer's stolen weapon stuck in his body."
|"Udib Toblumaid, Axedwarf, cancels sparring in Barracks: too insane." [[User:Ben jamm1n|Ben jamm1n]]
|Kosoth Cilobonol, Bone Carver cancels Drink: Unconscious.
|Sizir the Snail of Bait is a deity of The Fresh Towers. Sizir most often takes the form of a female dwarf and is associated with jealousy.
|Sibrek Tanbim likes Limestone, Tin, Smoky Quartz, the color crimson, bolts, scepters, anvils, and rock blocks for their lack of quality levels.
|Most vermin teleport, so nothing actually contains them. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]]
|There are 5 articles in category Lore: Armok, Cave Adaptation, Elephant, Philosopher, and Vomit.
|Fixed Bug #888: There was an alligator drunk
|Fixed Bug #563: Mayor ordered himself beaten for failing to make crystal glass
|If cow cheese is made from cow's milk, what is dwarven cheese made of?
|''Belbezevost Närangagak Äkig:'' Goatsects the Raw Red Anus of Stretching
|Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn
|"You know, Urist, you've got a mind like an +Ash Trap+."--[[User:Destor|Destor]]
|'''Zander J:''' "Is there a way to stop immigration without setting the population cap?" '''Yanlin:''' "Magma."
|[16:08] <[[User:Squeegy|Snowden]]> the merchants won't leave because I killed their guys [16:08] <[[User:Squeegy|Snowden]]> and I can't lock them in and drown them because there's shoes on the floodgate
|<BBB>Hm, the only dwarf who bothered helping my crippled mayor is my legendary bonecarver. <BBB>Hm, fuck. He's not dragging him towards his bed. <Nikov>"Oh, is that thing slowing you down? I could make you a nice walking stick out of it..."
|An animal trainer just suddenly stopped working and hid himself in a workshop. He's probably going to make a wardog out of rock and goblin skulls.
|flying creatures give birth in midair, leading to tragedy
|"So I built this genius contraption, see? It uses the combined power of those 12 water-wheels, and those 6 windmills, and brings the water from BEHIND the wheels, all the way to the top of the mountain." "Then what does it do?" "Nothing. Not until you pull this lever, see?" -The Creation of The Doomsday Lever
|"Dwarf Fortress: Screw mining for fish, we're fishing for rocks!" -Duke 2.0
|"Thanks to the central chamber being floodable, in the case of a siege, all I have to do is lure the gobbos in and throw the lever. Then, my dwarves can keep going about their business, while the goblins are busy sorting themselves by density." -Moddington
|"Bloodedrivers the new Beginnings On the forums is a masterful rendition of an image of a human and a dwarf fortress wiki. The dwarf fortress wiki is being read by the human. The human '''has no goddamn clue what the hell is going on'''." -Neruz's edit of uberubert post
|'''Urdim Kutamèrith, Pump Operator, has created Rakusttenshed, a Glumprong blowgun!''' Urdim, you are a freaking idiot.
}}<noinclude>[[Category:Humor and stories]]</noinclude>

40d Talk:Appraiser

2009-04-24T10:27:06Z

Aykavil: /* need goods? */

I've noticed that actual trades do not affect the Apprasial Skill. Instead, When the Broker actually goes to the depot when the Merchants are there, the skill increases. It seems like when I start a new fortress, if I use a dwarf without appraisal skill, he'll already have Dabbling Appraiser before I actually trade goods. Anyone else notice this? --[[User:Wahnsinniger|Wahnsinniger]] 12:58, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:I thought the appraiser skill was only really used to be able to see the price of the goods when you trade? Thus, it doesn't have much use in itself, it's simply pretty neat to actualy know accuratly what you're trading for and against in term of price. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 13:50, 19 November 2007 (EST)

I have noticed this as well. Further, it appears that only the first dwarf to examine a given set of trade goods will gain skill. --

I think the statement that "Selecting items to trade doesn't give skill" is incorrect, and actually ''is'' giving skill. I recently selected a whole slew of items with my non-legendary mayor/trader, but noticed I didn't have enough to afford all the caravan's goods so backed out of the trade window... then I noticed he just hit legendary. I could be mistaken and he had already been legendary before he got to the depot, but I'm fairly sure he wasn't. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 19:35, 1 December 2007 (EST)

I just got into dwarven economy mode on a fortress of mine, and it seems that my shops are owned by appraisers. Is this a coincidence? --[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] 19:56, 1 December 2007 (EST)
:Do you mean that the shopkeepers happen to be dwarves that already has appraisal, or that the shopkeepers gained the appraisal skill?--[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 20:43, 1 December 2007 (EST)

== Gaining experience ==

So is experience gained quicker through single large transactions, that is trading loads of goods and clearing out the caravan in one transaction, or is offering more smaller transactions a better way? I've not been able to tell any difference so far but it seems reasonable that one way would be better. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 19:47, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Appraiser & Bookeeping ==

Are we sure that bookkeeping gives appraiser experience? Because I have a new bookkeeper in training, and she hasn't gained any appraiser skill. --[[User:Strangething]], unsigned

:You are correct; it does not give that experience. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 17:48, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

== need goods? ==

My broker wouldn't go to the elves to trade until all the goods were there, but I had already traded by enabling anyone can trade. do they only go when all the goods are there, and why does anyone can trade make a difference? btw I don't keep all can trade on ever, only when I need it, and my broker had no job at all to do.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:12, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

:I think you can go to trade at any point after the caravan "starts unloading its goods". If all the traders haven't arrived yet, however, they'll tell you, "we're still unloading". I'm not sure why you experienced that problem... maybe you have the "trader requested" on the wrong setting? The way it says "t: trader requested" makes it seem like you have to ''hit'' t to make the request, but whatever is showing at the moment is what you are requesting.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:31, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

:: It seems that the ''Bring item to depot'' job has higher priority than the ''Trade at depot'' one. However, once a broker has started the ''Trade'' job, (s)he will be unconcerned by any additionnal good hauling request.--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:27, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Bars

2009-04-22T13:22:09Z

Aykavil:

40d:Challenges

2009-04-22T09:20:14Z

Aykavil: /* Difficult Builds */

:''Part of this article was originally taken from the DF forums thread [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=466.0 "Goal-Based Dwarf Fortress"].''

The general goal of [[Fortress Mode]] is to survive, acquire wealth, defend your stronghold, and become the capital of your civilization. However, many players find that fighting off repeated [[siege|sieges]] and keeping their people alive just isn't enough anymore. They begin to experiment with different sets of objectives, themes, and restrictions in search of more difficulty and [[fun]]. These are some goals to attempt or use as inspiration.

== Difficult Builds ==
A sub-optimal embark profile can make the first few years more difficult than they might otherwise be. After a few years, however, immigration, trading, and development of new industries will likely bring your fort up to usual standards. For best results, combine with a restriction.

=== Diplomacy ===
* Six dwarves with only social [[skill]]s
* One skilled dwarf

Six courtiers of the king's court made some ill-advised remarks within earshot of the king, and as a result have been ordered to go found an outpost. They've hired you to make sure they survive. The six nobles only have social skills and refuse to do any work that is beneath them.

=== Hunting Party ===
* One marksman/ambusher
* Two camp servants (e.g. one cook/brewer/herbalist, one butcher/tanner/leatherworker/woodcutter)
* Four clients, all dabbling in marksman/ambusher but with primarily civilian skills.

No anvil, lots of hunting dogs ... and a haunted wood. (In a terrifying wood, you may find all the trees & plants are dead, severely reducing long-term prospects.)

=== Stranded Scout Squad ===

The only items you can bring weapons, ammo, and armor (no picks). The only skills you can hand out are military. The only animals you can bring are war dogs. See how it goes.

=== Bandit Camp ===

* At least 3 marksdwarves.
* Ideally, settle on a hillside, along a canyon or a valley.

Attack and loot every sentient creatures who enter your territory : Goblins & kobolds, but also merchants, diplomats, and even migrants. You can't tell your guys to directly attack allies, but you can build traps linked to a lever (eg. a big pit under the road, with a linked pillar under the pit "roof".) and pull them to kill groups.

=== Minimal ===
* No skills
* No items

This challenge is moderately to very difficult, depending on the wildlife and outdoor food sources. Note that the three logs from the wagon are just enough to build a trade depot.

==Restrictions==
Several of the game's features are rightly considered broken. Creating self-imposed limitations on what you can and cannot do may alleviate this.

=== ASPCA ===
* No [[animals]]

Don't bring any [[animals|pets]]. Furthermore, due to the possibility of animals being caught in them, don't build any [[traps]], either. If [[immigrants]] bring pets, get rid of them somehow. (Whether "them" refers to the pets or the owners is up to the discretion of local [[mayor]]s.)

=== City-States ===
* No [[skill]]s
* 7 or multiple of 7 of everything you bring

At the start your dwarves split everything equally and move to 7 different locales that are not interconnected. They have to mine their own rooms, plant their own crops, use their own craft piles. This will probably require a bit of cross-fertilization until you get [[door]]s and can lock everyone in, but after that it is every dwarf for him/herself!

=== Dieting Dwarves ===
'''Fishing village'''

Give your dwarves only the fishing skill and other fishing related skills (like bonecrafting.) Try to survive off a [[fish]] only diet. Flood the river and build houses above it so the dwarves can fish through their floors. There will be an extra challenge if the river freezes in the winter.

'''Carnivore'''

* No plants or seeds

Only eat strays, pets, and animals you trap and hunt. No farming or plant gathering. Keep all your pets in cages and care for them as little as possible. Eat your dwarves' pets first for an extra challenge. If this upsets your dwarves, ridicule or ignore them. (If you are particularly heartless, you could cage those dwarves as well because anyone that empathizes with animals doesn't deserve any rights either.)

'''Vegan'''

In essence, construct an [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Glade Elven Forest]: The [[Challenges#Hippy challenge|Hippy Challenge]].

'''IOGT/AA'''

* No alcohol

Quite possibly, this is the cruelest challenge that your dwarves can be given. Don't ever brew any alcohol. Build [[well]]s instead and watch your now teetotaller dwarves work slower and slower by the season.

=== Hippy challenge ===

Peace, man. Don't harm any plants except those you plant yourself. Don't cut down any trees, and don't trade for logs with the filthy humans or dwarves who do. You can trade for plants with the elves, they understand your environmental code. Don't burn any coal, do you know what that does to the environment, man? Never cause any creature's death, so no military, and no lethal traps. You can use cage traps, and either tame the creatures you catch, or release them back into the wild, far from your fort.

For an extra challenge try this in an area with a cave.

=== Hermit ===
* No [[skill]]s
* One [[pick]] and no other supplies

A well known and popular challenge. Kill off 6 starting dwarves and any [[immigrants]] as they arrive, and try to make a living for the last dwarf. Turn away merchants. If they don't leave, kill them.

'''Variants'''
* Keep your starting seven, but no immigrants.
* Selectively admit dwarves based on name, profession, etc.
* Embark with an anvil as well.

=== Nay, no ponderous stone doors or shining silver arcades, not while I live! ===

The new king has decided rocks and metals can no longer be used in construction. He'll be overthrown shortly, but in the meantime construct your fortress without them.

'''Variants'''
* Make everything that you can out of wood. That means nothing underground, though you may excavate to make areas above-ground. Bonus points for bringing no wood at the start and/or going to a treeless area.
* Construct an above-ground fortress made entirely out of glass. Bonus points for not using magma or using clear and crystal glass exclusively.
* Build with soap. Soap is in the form of bars, and so can be used as a building material just like any other type of bar. Show those elven traders just how much you despise their philosophies by building your trading outpost out of stuff derived from dead trees ''and'' dead animals. Too many cats? Build with cat tallow soap.
* Choose one type of rock, one type of metal, one type of gem, and one type of wood. Your whole fortress must be made from these items. You may further narrow it down to bones, skin, and other from one animal, one type of glass, etc. If any artifacts are made using a forbidden item, chuck into lava, a river, or a chasm (you may need to throw the dwarf who made it in as well, since he will throw a tantrum).

=== Luddite ===
* No mechanics or [[mechanism]]s
* No [[machine]]s

[[Traps]] and moving [[bridge]]s are forbidden, water moved for [[farming]] must be accomplished by hand.

=== Master Of One ===
* All starting dwarves can have one skill and one skill only
* No changes are allowed on any dwarf's labor screen
* All immigrants must stay with the profession(s) they arrive with
* All peasants must be activated into the military
Alternatively,
* All starting dwarves can have one skill and one skill only
* No changes are allowed on any dwarf's labor screen, except that hauling may be disabled. You may not enable hauling.
* All immigrants must stay with the profession(s) they arrive with, and only military that immigrates recruited may be military.

=== The Mad Butcher ===
(this requires a tiny amount of editing to the raws) 
*Edit Dwarf Fortress\Raw\object\Creature_Domestic.txt. Remove the tag [BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD] from cats and dogs.
*Start with a normal build except:
**One dwarf should be a dedicated butcher/tanner.
**Buy minimal food.
**Bring as many puppies or kittens as possible.
*Drop all your puppies or kittens into cages or into animal pits as soon as possible.
*Dig a shaft 10 or more Z-levels deep, mark the top an animal pit.
*At the bottom of the shaft set up a butcher shop, a tanner shop, a bedroom, and some food and leather stockpiles.
*Set it all up so that the mad butcher cannot escape.
*As you need food, begin selecting animals to be dropped into your deep pit, next to the butcher.
*To retrieve the food and leather without releasing the butcher, either have him dump it down another hole or use an airlock system.
*See how long a single butcher, butchering splattered kittens, can keep your fortress fed! Cooking and farming are cheating... raw meat for everyone!

=== No death ===

Try to play the game for as long as possible without losing any dwarf (so no death, but also no failed mood, no kidnapping, no beating to death, etc.) A simple challenge, yet harder than what it seems to be.

Some players consider this to be the opposite of the intent of Dwarf Fortress. So naturally, it must be done.

== Megaprojects ==
Instead of deliberately inhibiting yourself, create a wonder of the dwarven world that would make the Mountainhomes proud. Be sure to upload it to the [[http://mkv25.net/dfma/ Dwarf Fortress Map Archive]] when it's finished.

=== Temple ===

Designing a temple to Armok. Aesthetics count - the god will be very angry if there are no stained-glass windows and domed ceilings carved with frescoes. To gain more favor, make regular sacrifices and keep the fountains and rivers red with [[blood]].

=== The great brewery ===

Disaster has struck the kingdom. A strangely glowing [[Fire|‼]]<nowiki></nowiki>peasant[[Fire|‼]] visited the greatest brewery of the empire, and as a result the whole thing exploded. No time for weeping — create its successor, a fort dedicated to alcohol production, and get the alcohol supplies flowing! Try to make the widest variety possible, and give or trade it to the dwarven [[caravan]] each year.

=== Castle ===

Build a castle, greater than anything built by human, elf or dwarf. This is highly time
consuming if you want it to be a good castle. There must be floor indoors, and no underground
constructions except for mining operations and cellars. For an even greater challenge, build
a gigantic tower in the middle, where the nobles stay.

=== Wealth ===

The kingdom's coffers need lining, so hop to! Found a fort and start accumulating wealth as fast as possible. Attain as high a fortress value as possible, and make most of your wealth into coins for the vault. Try to beat your record for one year, two years, or five years.

=== Biodome ===

All material, seeds, food, tools, and dwarves must be in the fortress within one year. Then, seal up the entrance. Any new immigrants... well, they might be in trouble. Survive for as long as possible!

No chasms/underground rivers/magma vents allowed.

=== Underwater fortress ===

Encase your entire fortress in [[water]]! Your fortress should be watersealed: surrounded by water against all [[wall]]s and the top of the fortress.
* Bonus: Build all water-touching walls/roof in clear glass!
* Bonus: Use [[magma]] instead of water!
* Bonus: Build it in the [[ocean]] or a non-freezing lake
* Bonus: Build large glass domes that encase the fortress. A dome 20 tiles wide should be 20 z-levels tall. Which may be hard to cover in water.
* Mod: Make your dwarves amphibious and include airlocks between the wet fortress and the dry.

=== Mountain audit/core sample ===

Start in a mountainous area and strip mine everything down, down, down to ground level. Stockpile everything, and calculate the mountain's composition. For kicks, try not excavating one tile on each z-level. You'll be left with one enormous core sample.

=== Santa Claus ===

Get ten thousand toys built and offered to caravans yearly. Optionally, build ten thousand toys, fetch them in adventure mode and deliver them to every single city of the world.

=== Graveyard Master ===

Ever dwarf deserves a decent resting place:
*Build a tomb for ever dwarf that dies, the more dwarves you manage to bury the better.
*Tombs must be rooms with exactly 5x5 of size and 1 of height, with only one entrance tile that must be closed by a door.
*Tombs must have all its surfaces engraved.
*Tomb must contain at least 4 statues.
*Once complete, the door must be locked and the tomb must not be ever entered again.

=== How high can you go? ===

Construction, construction, construction! Just how big a tower can you build? Out of glass maybe, clear glass? Steel? Pump water to the top? Make your tower a ''pinnacle'' of achievement and stun humans, elves and goblins alike - for they know nothing of construction and engineering like dwarves do!

=== Computing ===

Can your dwarves build the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism Antikythera mechanism]? Can you program the fortress to play tic-tac-toe? More details at [[computing]].

=== Doomsday Clock ===

Build a water or mechanical clock whose final state triggers the support which holds your fortress up or a megabeast out.
See how much wealth you can achieve before the clock runs out.
*Bonus: Create something that resets itself, as well as purging the map, so that you can reuse the same fortress over and over.
*Super-Bonus: Create something that involves pressure plates and a small kitten, when the pressure plates are hit in the right order, your map ends. Toss the kitten in and hope for the best.

=== World Domination ===
Pretend you are an evil mastermind. Now come up with some device or machine to render the world (or at least your portion of the map) totally unliveable, aside from, of course, your hidden lair.

Suggestions:
* Flood the map with water/magma (may require building walls around the edge of the map)
* Build an "Earthquake Machine" (the entire map is supported by a single support, which is connected to a lever)
* Build an extensive holding cell network for "scientific purposes". Fill it with megabeasts and elephants in secret. Have a lever that lets everything free to feed on the general population.


=== Casting ===
Who needs to construct giant statues?! We need ours made from natural walls, however, we want it above ground level as well. For casting your goal is to create some giant structure out of natural obsidian walls through the use of an extremely elaborate scaffold of lava and water pools and screw pumps. When you are finished, just deconstruct the scaffolding and smooth/engrave the statue as you go. Just imagine the bridge over that chasm, now complete with two giant dwarf statues on either side to strike fear into all who enter and to show them the power of your fortress.

=== The Monolith ===
As the inevitability of a fortress-wide mental breakdown looms over every single fortress why not have something that alludes to that precipice of [[insanity]]. Like the book and feature film, 2001: A Space Odyssey you must have a Monolith. This has to be made from [[obsidian]] and have a completely smooth surface (You cannot build it from blocks) You can have it be any size as long as it is outside, at least 2 tiles thick to ensure there are no pillar tiles, and has about the same ratio of width to height as it does in the movie (1:4:9) to make it as close to the real thing as possible. It would be preferable to make it large so that it seems to be dominating the landscape and your dwarves' psyche. The bigger the better.

*If the rock obsidian strata isn't deep enough in parts to make a monolith feasible consider casting a monolith with a large rectangular block in the exact same dimensional criteria as above.

=== Ceremonial Sacrifices ===

Build an amazingly complex or spectacular killing device. A shaft that extends across the entire Z-plane is a good start. A constantly shifting maze of atomsmasher drawbridges is another. For the minimalist, a very confined space where you will drop a dwarf wrestler along with the gobbos once in a while. Perhaps a waterslide that carries your prisoner all the way down into a chasm? Whatever your idea, build it and dedicate your fort to the construction, maintenance and improvement of your device.

Do not kill any of your invaders. Capture them using cage traps, and them set them off in your device. Keep a record of the number of victims you drop into it.

=== Space Ship ===

Create a giant space ship fit for space travel. It should be able to hold about 100 dwarves for at least 2 years.

BONUS: Use exploding [[booze]] as ignitable fuel.

BONUS: Make a removable [[ramp]] for boarding.

BONUS: Make the [[water]] for the 2 years be on the ship using removable pumps.

BONUS+: Make it totally self sufficient. (Make an internal system which pumps the [[water]] supply through a room every few years to muddy the floor. Plant [[seed|seeds]] in the [[mud]] that's now on the floor. Manage your consumption to maintain self sufficiency.)

BONUS+: Make it all out of [[steel]].

[[fun|FUN]]: Let it be held by a single [[support]], ignite the [[booze]], remove the support an let it "fly".

EVEN BETTER: Drop it down a chasm.

=== Aqueducts ===

For some reason, a noble was harmlessly pulling a lever when suddenly, magma flooded the river and exploded the booze! The king requires your band of seven to build a great aqueduct to bring water to the capital. Start with supports, and build up your aqueduct until it is 10 z-levels high!

BONUS: Start over a human town, build a wall around it, pump water through the aqueduct and into it!

=== Dwarf like an Egyptian ===

*Build a pyramid of epic proportion.

Build a legendary dwarven pyramid, with a corridor running to a central tomb for your favourite noble. Perhaps build it entirely out of glass? Or try to make the top twist in a bit of a swirl. Alternatively, make your entire fortress inside a pyramid, which stretches below the ground.

=== Skull collector ===

What proves the might of a civilization better than a hall full of skulls?
*Try to collect as many skulls as you can during your fortress life, and put then in a special skulls-only storage. The more skulls the better.

BONUS: Cover all the skulls in blood, and make the stockpile also a throne room.

SUPERBONUS: Also fill the throneroom with kittens.

=== Moria ===

Build a huge hall - at least 3 z-levels high. Leave few pillars symmetrically placed in the hall (don't build them, carve them out). Smooth and possibly engrave everything (not only the lowest z-level!). Then build thin bridge (not the bridge building, just a thin piece of rock to walk on) above magma - support it with bauxite supports connected to a lever (bauxite mechanisms needed in support). Destroy stone holding it at the both ends and replace it with floor hatches (so when you pull the lever it all goes down). After that build a bridge above the chasm.
When it's all done seal your dwarves deep inside in safe place and get invaded by goblins. At the same time dig out HFS. Lead the HFS across the both bridges and then collapse the second one when one of the champions clashes with it (it doesn't matter that the champion has killed the HFS with one hit).

=== Crematory Fortress ===

* Requires a [[magma pipe]] and [[bauxite]].

Build a temple structure above a [[magma pipe]] and [[engrave]] every available surface. The temple should be as opulent as possible. In the temple, build a retracting [[bridge]] over a hole in the floor, and designate a [[coffin]] [[stockpile]] on it. Whenever a dwarf dies, build a [[bauxite]] or other [[magma-proof]] [[coffin]] for him, place it on the [[bridge]], and retract it, committing his body to the [[magma|fiery blood of the mountain]].

::Note: At the time of writing, the editor isn't sure if coffins falling off the bottom of the map count as being 'lost.' If they do, channel out a magma pool and put the temple above that to avoid tantrums.

=== Swiss Precision ===

Build a working clock. The clock should accurately track DF days, months, and years.

Bonus Points:
*If the clock has a mechanical effect in the fortress proper to announce new days
*If the clock creates seasonally appropriate effects at the change of months and/or seasons.
*If the clock is used to aid in the operation of the fortress in addition to its role as a clock (automatically controls farmland irrigation at particular times, automatically opens the <s>blast doors</s> floodgates in time for merchants, etc...).
*If the clock governs the schedule of a working rail station (which is always on time). (Definitions of 'working' and 'rail station' are subject to player imagination).

But don't worry about the bonus points, a precision time device should be hard enough.

=== The cube ===

Play a fort as usual, but emphasize catching goblins in cages to support and fill this construction:
Construct a series of rooms in a symmetrical fashion, all connected to eachother with appropriate doors. Of course, enough rooms to make a maze-like structure, and if you feel like it, an exit that is hard to reach. Fill a bunch of the rooms with traps and pressureplates. Then fill one room with 4-6 goblins (preferably in cages, opened by an outside lever), release them and watch them randomly walk around the rooms dying to traps and whatnots.

*Bonus: Do multiple story maze (3d-maze)
*Bonus: Use pressureplates to open/close the exit randomly; otherwise, all the goblins will just follow the shortest route to the exit.

=== Land battleship ===

Turn your moutain into a huge battlestation, complete with crew quarters, decks, command centre, cantina, and a large collection of deadly weapons : Batteries of marksdwarves, ballista cannons, catapults, but also lava projector or remote explosive devices (ie, cave-ins in a part of the map triggered by a lever). Dig and mine the mountain so it end looking like a real battleship, with nothing but a plain around (so you could build it from nothing on a plain, or destroy a mountain, choice is yours). The battleship has to be autonomous, and dwarves shouldn't wander outside it.

*Bonus: The weaponry cover every tile of the map (ie, everything who enter the map, from every side, can be shot)
*Bonus: Build several other ships, maybe dedicated to a special production ? (food, ammo etc.)
*Bonus: Each crew member has a civil and military formation, and when the enemy arrive, almost every economic activity is stopped and all hands to quarters !
*Mega Bonus: After building your Ship(s), flood the surrounding countryside.

== Themed fortress ==
The middle ground between restrictions and megaprojects. A theme gives your fort a sense of purpose, while usually being less time-consuming than a megaproject. Additionally, many themes can be combined together.

=== Fort Geneva ===
* Build only nonlethal (cage) traps
* Sentient creatures ([[Goblins]], etc.) are to be considered prisoners of war and treated humanely
* Suggested provisions for prisoners: a bed, a personal cell, a commons area, aboveground exercise yard, and the clothes the creature was wearing when captured
* Inspiration: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions Geneva Conventions]

=== Immigration and customs enforcement ===
* One miner/mason/architect
* One woodcutter/carpenter/architect
* Five military dwarves

No anvil, lots of food, in a canyon - spend the first year building fortifications to interdict traffic. Immigrants can build a town around you, but your original dwarves remain dedicated to their mission.

=== Luxury Hotel ===

Build a hotel with large luxurious rooms
* Starting 7 dwarfs will be the only dwarfs that can work.
* All immigrants will be treated like nobles and will have all labors turned off.
* Provide places to throw parties.
*BONUS: Make a large fountain or waterfall centerpiece.
*BONUS: Keep the hotel up to code with health and safety.
** If any of the ''customers'' die or get kidnapped you must abandon the hotel.
*MEGA BONUS: Make the entire hotel out of ice.

=== Segregation ===

Make two separate, working, independent fortresses. All the men go in one, all the women in the other. Married dwarves are excluded from both.

=== No singles ===

As soon as you get a married couple with an immigration wave, kill all single dwarves. Continue to do so with all immigration waves. Try to lose no children.

=== Live up to your name ===

Go with the random name chosen by the game for your fortress and group. Make a handicap/play style based on your group's name, and a personal goal based on your fortress name. For example, if your group is The Iron Fist, your military must consist only of wrestlers in iron armor. If your fortress is Prisonportals, you must capture and jail as many goblins/creatures as possible, and all doors in the prison must be made of glass.

=== Equaland ===

Equaland: where we are all Equal, besides the Almighty Leader. Each dwarf must have their own bedroom, dining room, etc. Make a large tower in the center of your perfect land and put "The Leader" in it. Then make some kind of mechanism to kill the dwarves inside their dwelling, complete with levers so that The Leader can choose who dies next. If dwarves have one too many friends kill them, if they eat too much food kill them, etc.

=== This. Is. SPARTAAAA! ===

At least 50% of your dwarves should be military 100% of the time, and train in spears, shield use and [[wrestling]]. All other dwarves are "helots" and shouldn't be given any skills; they can be pressed into the military during times of war, but given no equipment or at most a bare minimum of inferior weapons. Do not use crossbows or traps. Kill maimed dwarves.

Refuse trade with caravans, instead attacking them if possible. Whenever a messenger appears promptly enter aggressive negotiations and then throw them down the well screaming "THIS IS SPAARRTAAAAA..." at your monitor. Forbid the use of gold and silver, etc., the making of crafts, and the smoothing of walls or any other task that makes your fortress "beautiful".

Don't create chainmail or plate armour. Brew only wine.

Note that the above suggestions are modelled on the popular movie [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_(film) 300], which was historically inaccurate. For a more "realistic dwarven Sparta", try reading the wiki article on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparta#Society the real Sparta]

=== Commune ===

All your dwarves have all labors enabled. Dwarves sleep only in barracks, and no dwarf, including administrators, can be assigned any personal rooms. If the nobles find this upsetting, don't hesitate to make the corridors run red with the [[blood]] of the bourgeoisie. Obviously, don't mint any coins either. (Dwarves can take turns with wood cutting and mining, since they can't have both enabled simultaneously.)

=== Government in Exile ===
All dwarves are either nobles or in the military. The only useful dwarves you'll have will be your broker, manager, mayor, bookkeeper, and dungeon master. If you can survive until the sheriff arrives, transfer your entire military into the fortress guard. With a little luck, and a lot of exported roasts, you too can rule without proletarian interference.

=== Stay Awhile, and Listen ===
Create a world with a lot of large caves and make it possible to see them on the embark map. Build a Fortress near a large cave with a lot of big angry monsters in it (hopefully not too close) and loot lying around that becomes a frontier town for adventurers seeking to clear out the nearby 'dungeon'.

Train up dwarves to become parties of heroes who will descend into the dungeon for fame and fortune (or more likely severed limbs and death). Parties should only be about four or less. You can defend your fortress but luring monsters out into your siege engines is cheating. Give yourself points for large monsters killed and treasure claimed.

'''Variants'''
* Only solo adventurers are allowed to enter the dungeon. 
* Only use 'Thieves' to steal loot and create traps inside the dungeon.

=== Noblesse requiro ===

Build your fortress to please the sick, twisted, evil nobles needs. Build a execution chamber for your rowdy dwarves and build a torture chamber for your dungeon master, using your imagination! Use this to punish pathetic dwarves who dare rebel. Build palaces for your nobles and pamper them in every way. Pour most of your resources into a beautiful place for nobles to live whilst letting your dwarves sleep in tiny, pathetic rooms. The only exception is your mayor, who rises from the rank of the disgusting peons. He must live in squalor as well, preferably next to noble rooms to so the nobles can taunt him. score yourself according to how happy your nobles are, and your worth.

=== Humanlike Fortress ===
Pretend you're a filthy above-ground dwelling [[Human|humie]].
* Build a town wall.
** Only hovels and farms outside the town walls.
* House your dwarves in small town homes
** 5-10 dwarves per house (they had pretty big families back in the day)
** Upstairs bedrooms, small dining room, maybe a single level basement.
* House your workshops according to profession, not convenience.
* Build warehouses for stockpiles, and set guards outside them.
* Create a keep, with its own wall, barracks, treasury, etc.
** House your nobles within the keep.
* Create a market square.
* Create a main street from the town wall to the market square and/or keep. Well-paved blocks, statues and decorative shubbery are a must.
* No underground connections between different areas.
* For obtaining stone, metal, etc. a mine may be built, but must have separate entrance from other buildings. It can be outside the fortress, but must not connect to the interior, or vice versa.
* BONUS: Make a fountain at least 3 Z squares high in the center of the keep, with a +statue+(or better) on top of it.
* BONUS: The fortress is built around a human town.
* BONUS: Town has an awesome inn operating in same building as the brewery. REGULAR parties there, or it isn't good enough!
* BONUS: All booze is kept within a town inn.
* BONUS: An above ground farm complete with crops and cows,mules,horses,etc.
* BONUS+: Modify the raws and actually use humans to make the fort.

=== Sitting on trees ===
Build up your fortress on the top of giant trees (that you have to construct from wood at first). Don´t build anything underground. Show that snobbish elves that dwarves are better in EVERYTHING - even in sitting on trees.
* BONUS: Build your tree-city at a place with low (or even no) vegetation.

[[Category:Guides]]

40d:Bar

2009-04-21T10:29:16Z

Aykavil: redirect to Bars and not to Metal

#REDIRECT [[Bars]]