Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d Talk:Civilization

2008-12-17T14:47:25Z

Bilkinson:

Note: it seems as if removing any one of these completely (just deleting their entry from the entity_ raw) will cause infinite map rejects; the world generation seems to require (at least?) one of each category. --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 17:50, 8 February 2008 (EST)

I am using small worlds (33x33) for experimenting and the dwarven civ often doesn't have any "leaders" thus no kings - how would a game play out on such a world? Obviously you dont get a liaison, but what about nobles/king? Is there a way to determine if a king is present from the world map alone? Or how "big" a dwarven civ is or smth like that? Could the world even evolve while you play and "produce" a king? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:05, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

:No, yes (or, at least, how many settlements, those of the selected civ show up in blue), no. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 11:25, 24 November 2008 (EST)

So, I've noticed several instances of Evil Dwarf Kingdoms, has anyone else?--[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 02:24, 12 November 2008 (EST)
:When a settlement of another race is captured, it doesn't change the settlement type on the map even though it does note the race change. This can produce 'Dark Dwarven Fortresses' or even 'Forest Retreats'. The conquering civilization must be able to survive in the terrain type being captured, so you won't see elves leaving the forests or humans heading into mountain ranges. However, since forests can be converted into grasslands, humans seem to enjoy conquering elves and getting them to become pikemasters, wear chainmail, and assume leadership of their towns.--[[User:Navian|Navian]] 02:36, 12 November 2008 (EST)
::Humans actually do have [TOLERATES_SITE:CAVE_DETAILED], so arguably it's intended to be possible for them to have mountain halls. I have not seen this, though (note that any world where dwarves tend to get conquered in worldgen will tend to get rejected, so we'll generally only be seeing worlds where it doesn't happen for whatever reason)

I've got contact with two different human civilizations. I've also noticed two goblin ambush parties that were led by a human (with lots of bone accessories like rings and bracelets). Has Toady made it so more civilizations can raid you? What this game really needs as part of the war arc is a decent diplomacy interface so you can make peace with various civs and get them to send trade caravans (or add a trade arc where you can send your own!). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:27, 24 November 2008 (EST)
:Children goblins kidnap will join goblin forces for ambushes and sieges when they grow up. Since they are bigger and tougher then goblins, they will likely end-up being squad leaders. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 24 November 2008 (EST)
::That doesn't explain why I have contact with a second human civilization - unless said humans still retain their civilization membership and thus I count as having contacted it? Weird... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:42, 24 November 2008 (EST)

==unknown civilizations==
I just looked at the entry for one of my hammerdwarf champions. She's apparently the enemy of three civilizations, one of which is the local goblin civ. and the other two, the "Nightmares of Crystal" and the "Doctrines of Guarding", I've never heard of before. Any idea who these guys are and why they don't show up on my civilizations menu?--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 03:20, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:It seems likely that you only get civs in your menu that that have actually made an appearance in your local area. So they exist somewhere in the world (legends mode might tell you, depending on how you've set it) but they've not attacked you or otherwise arrived in your fortress.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 06:30, 17 December 2008 (EST)

== Offerings to and exports from hostile nations ==

On a whim I checked what I'd imported from the local goblins and kobolds, and found these amusing tidbits:

<blockquote>
Chrinkis, "Chrinkis", Kobold

 Exports to Fomireola [my fortress]: Petty Annoyance
 Offerings from Fomireola: Death
 
 Ustöspsong, "The Incidental Scourge", Goblin

 Exports to Fomireola: Terror
 Offerings from Fomireola: Vengeance
</blockquote>

I'm curious... are the exports and offerings the same from all kobold and goblin civs, or does it vary somehow? You can check these stats by going to the View Civilizations menu, selecting a civ, and pressing tab.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 06:41, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:I've seen the same remarks from Goblin and Kobold civs on multiple occasion. Does anything special show up for hostile elves or humans? --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 09:47, 17 December 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Screw pump

2008-11-30T13:35:05Z

Bilkinson:

{{archive|
#[[Talk:Screw pump|Current discussion]]
#[[Talk:Screw pump/archive1|Archive1]]
}}

== Archiving ==

See [[/archive1]] for discussions before July '08.
Most discussion was regarding page development which has been implemented. There are a few comments which might help people trying to work things out but most of it is in the article.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:56, 5 July 2008 (EDT)

==Two versions of the L-shaped tunnels design==
As I said when I removed it, there is no point having two. Do not add mine back in again. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 21:57, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

You'd also cut how to set up water wheels & connect them to the pump tower. I wasn't 100% certain how to diagram connecting the wheels to the smaller tower design so I thought it best to restore the whole section until someone added that into the L-shape design. [[User:Calenth|Calenth]]

== Pumping Magma? ==

Would this work if the pump was made of magma-safe materials? --[[User:Mizzy|Mizzy]] 21:10, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

:Please check a talk page's [[Talk:Screw_pump/archive1#Materials_for_magma_pumps|archives]] before asking a question. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 02:46, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

:An edit to the [[Stupid dwarf trick]] page implied that only the blocks need be made of magma-safe materials. This needs to be studied further. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 17:28, 2 August 2008 (EDT)
::I have been building magma pumps out of wood (pipe/screw) and stone blocks for ages now; there are no detrimental effects. Since non-bauxite/non-raw adamantine stones are not magma safe, presumably a wooden block will work as well (a waste of logs if you have stone, though). It is only an issue if any part of the pump (namely, the walkable end) is going to be submerged in magma. You're probably working with a poor design if your pumps are submerged in what they're pumping, but whatever. In that case your best bet is to use green glass tubes/screws/blocks, if you have sand. Metal is a last resort. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 20:59, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
:::Wait - glass is magma-safe? what's its melting point? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 23:29, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Glass itself appears to be hardcoded and from what I can tell does not have a melting point. Pretty sure glass is magma safe. I have never had problems with it. It's a nice way to get infinite tubes and corkscrews. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 23:27, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Just tried to build a pump using a nickel block with a wooden screw and a wooden tube. All it created was a huge mess and a bit of smoke and fire. Luckily, the pump is separated enough from my fort that I can just let the magma cool before moving back in.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 00:57, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
:Did you make sure the magma coming out of the pump (on the same z-level of the pump) couldn't go back around and over the back of the pump? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:56, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
::Hmm...actually, I had to cut a whole because the dwarf who constructed it had the bright idea to get himself stuck by standing on the walkable tile. I guess maybe I should put a door there to allow access while blocking the magma next time to make sure it work.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 12:59, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
::Tested this again. There is no problem using a wooden Archimedes screw (giant wood screw+giant pipe) to pump magma as long as the block used is magma proof and magma does not leak around to the passable tile. The second that happens, though, the pump bursts into flame.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 02:29, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
:::Upon further testing, it seems that wooden magma pumps can work, but only for so long. As soon as the magma reaches a certain height, it burns up the wood and pushes the burn-proof block out of the way. I just lost about 10 worker dwarves in a accident trying to create an above ground lava cistern for my glass fortress, as soon as it reached an average level of about 5, the pump gave way. Between those deaths and the ones from the recent goblin ambush, I fear my fortress will devolve into madness and tantrums any day now. ADDENDUM: I would also like to add that the magma has just ''burned a hole through 2 z-levels of sand'' and is now flooding my workshops. It seems that the red liquid deserves a lot more respect and caution in the latest release. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]]

== Self powered pumps ==

So I'm just starting a new fortress, its got everything but an easy to make moat, but there is a river start to the east a little and two or three levels lower than my entrance. So, what I'm wondering is, is there some easy way to get a hydraulic powered pump going off of the power of the water being pumped (after the dwarves do the initial pumping). Also if anyone has diagrams or something of how to easily bring water up two or three levels (or possibly higher if theres some advantage to having water fall from a height). Sorry if this is kind of stupid or answered or anything, last time I played the game it had 1 level and I never got too much into mechanics farther than floodgates (lots of complicated and redundant floodgates as I recall) so I've never tried a pump or waterwheel. I'd rather not screw up this map (its just short of perfect, major magnemite deposits with limestone being the main component to the mountain overall, access to every civ, its Cold [I'm from Canada so I like the cold], has good hunting and a major river start). Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 15:43, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

:Place a waterwheel in the original river to supply power. You can raise water multiple levels by the methods described [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|here]]. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:01, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
::Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:57, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

Note that if you bring the water up higher than the moat, it '''will''' (not might. will.) overtop your moat. That's a good way to flood your fortress. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:07, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

An example of the [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|multi-level pump]] including power source, gear assemblies and axles would pretty much make my entire month. Anyone up to the challenge? Pretty please? [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 22:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

Wait, the stacked pumps transmit power upwards ''through themselves''? I didn't realise that - if it's true, then the whole L-shaped tunnels section is unrequired and should probably be removed. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 06:05, 6 November 2008 (EST)

: I've been playing around with this for the last week or so. I completely missed the bit where you need to have a channel underneath the front end of the pump in order for power to transmit (you put the channel under the front end so that the pump blocks the water). You can also draw water from a stairway or into a stairway. And since water pressure will push water up z-levels, you don't actually need to stack your pumps. In other words:

0-lvl all others levels
~www~ ..... www a waterwheel
..|.. ..... | pumps from
.#V#. .###. v the north
.#X#. .#X#. X into up/down stairway
.###. .###. # surrounded by walls
..... .....

That should work for a substantial height. Sadly, my current river is filled with carp, so I won't be able to find out for a while. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 08:49, 6 November 2008 (EST)

:Pumps only push fluids up to their height. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 21:47, 28 November 2008 (EST)

== Front vs rear ==

Do I understand correctly that the 'front' tile (i.e. blocks water flow) is the one where the water comes out of?

Sort of - it actually just 'spawns' water in the tile on the opposite side of that tile from the rear walkable tile, an amount equal to that which is removed a z-level down. --[[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]] 16:19, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

But either way, the output side blocks flow (so if in a narrow channel water cannot backflow through the pump if it is turned off), right? I need to know this for a design. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:31, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

: Yes, you are correct. I too was confused by the use of the word "front", as my perception is that the "front" of a pump would be where the water goes in, not out. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 04:14, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

== Alternate vs. other ==

Alternate generally means "in turn" or "in place of" -- not "as an alternative".[http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000296.htm][http://cjrarchives.org/tools/lc/alt.asp] But "alternative" can have its own problems,[http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/alternate.html] which is why I would recommend "other uses" here.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:While I appreciate the need for clarity, I don't think either word particularly changes the scope, knowledge, breadth or content of the page. I suggest that both words work equally well. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:31, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

::May I ask for people's permission, then, to change it to 'other'? The function of the page may not be substantially affected by it, but I hate to be unable to correct what I understand to be an error. 'Course, if no one agrees, I'll let it drop.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 11:28, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I support other! [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 14:09, 11 November 2008 (EST)

== Pump + Stairs = Win? ==

Is there any reason why I can't use the stairs as the open space that I'm pumping water from?

Side View Top Views Key
###### ######
#v->__ #v->^# -> or <- : Direction of pump
#^<-v# ###### v : down stairs
#v->^# #^<-v# ^ : up stairs
#^<-v# ###### # : Wall
____^# _ : space

I came up with this right after exiting the game. I'll try it out soon. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:02, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:No reason you couldn't, but it'd be rather silly as your dwarves can't walk through the pump. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:58, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

== /fail at pump stacking. ==

I'm trying to construct a pump stack as shown in figure 2, which says 'notice how the front of the pump doesn't need a floor'. If I have open space there, it says it's blocked, 'needs ground or near machine'. I can't build the bottom one to go up. So I tried the top down; same problem. To (badly) diagram it vertically; (_= floor, .= space, %=front of pump over space, @=pump on solid floor) 

.@@_ <- Pumps from left to right onto solid floor
_@%. <- right to left.
.%@_ <- left to right.
wmwm <-water

I can't build any of the pumps if either of their Xs are sitting over an open space. If I build a gear, it won't let me build on top of it. The diagram doesn't seem to show a need for gears, anyway, which is what I was trying to do. Just for laughs, I closed off one of the two holes on the bottom, built the pump and had someone pump it. It quickly (Almost immediately) filled the room with 1/7 water, so I got that right... how do I build the next level up so it connects to the one below, then the one on the surface that will begin the perpetual motion through the attached waterwheel? Trying to give the ungrateful little buggers a waterfall in the statue garden...--[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 01:41, 30 November 2008 (EST)
:Ok, I now got the whole stack built...for some reason, it wouldn't let me when I tried it previously, but now I have it going... but they don't seem to all operate when one is manually pumped to prime. --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 02:12, 30 November 2008 (EST)
:Or when temporarily powered with a windmill. As soon as the gear and axle gets wet, it stops working. With three guys pumping, the waterfall runs for a little bit, half flooding the statue garden. :-p Why are they not connecting to power each other vertically?

You need to put the power-transfer hole under the output end of the pump. The impassable part will prevent backflow. Also, from your diagram it looks like the top pump isn't getting a power hole while the bottom onw is. Thta should be reversed. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 08:35, 30 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Losing

2008-11-22T18:18:47Z

Bilkinson:

" if you dig a hole in a wall diagonally to a water source, water can come spurting out even without you receiving a warning about damp stone." Is this true anymore? The dev notes for today's version (November 1st) mentioned making squares touching water diagonally get the damp marker as well. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:51, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== 26 directions ==

26 directions? Really? I've been digging out tiles UNDER bodies of water trapped in rock, much less diagonal to them along the z-axis, and I haven't run into any flooding problems yet.--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:If you dig a tunnel underneath a body of water, you retain the ceiling overhead. If you were to remove this ceiling (e.g. by digging a ramp or stairway upwards) then the water would certainly flow.

::It would, except digging a ramp doesn't remove the ceiling...in fact it's impossible to dig upwards into water. You can't designate anything on the water tile above, and nothing you do below removes the ceiling...I tried in vain, and was sorely dissapointed. 'Specially since Toady did it one of his movies. Let me know if you get it to work, though. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:10, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:::You can currently ramp up into a water source and have it release the water down in version v0.27.169.33g. --[[User:Stravitch|Stravitch]] 16:39, 23 January 2008 (EST)

:::Build an upward (or an up/down) staircase on a level below and designate a downward staircase on the level above. Downward staircase is essentially a modification of the floor (ceiling) into a hole with stairs. Water doesn't flow in 16 up/down+horizontal directions (doesn't flow up+horizontal under pressure). Be warned that digging directly below a lake or a river is safe despite "dump stone" warning but digging into stone directly below an aquafier is NOT safe.--[[User:Another|Another]] 02:35, 4 December 2007 (EST)

:::Water flows in only 10 directions: the eight horizontal directions, straight up, and straight down. Someone should edit the article page.[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 12:08, 23 January 2008 (EST)
::::Done, but don't hesitate to edit pages if you see something wrong :) people can always reedit them if they disagree ;) --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 16:13, 23 January 2008 (EST)

== Losing is fun ==
What would you say to moving the article to [[fun]] and making this one a redirect? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:29, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:That would be so funny! Don't know if it would gel with the rules, though. --[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 19:53, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::Redirected fun to here. ;) --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:12, 6 November 2007 (EST)

== Starvation ==
According to the starvation section you can gather plants if you dont have soil to farm on, but as far as i know plants only grow above soil layers [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 08:57, 19 January 2008 (EST)

:If you make rock muddy, you can grow on top of it. [[User:Calculus|Calculus]] 15:16, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Dehydration ==
What's that about "an indoor basin or water tower" ? How do you do that? --[[User:Keesto|Keesto]] 15:17, 6 September 2008 (EDT)
:Ditto. How do you "collect all the water before it evaporates"? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 06:49, 22 November 2008 (EST)
::Dig out an area under a body of water, then poke a hole that lets the water flow into it.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 13:18, 22 November 2008 (EST)

== Old Age ==

Does anybody know if dwarves can die of old age? or do they all just keep living forever?
:According to the raws, dwarves have a lifespan of 160-200 years. So if you play for a ''really'' long time... --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 12:19, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
::How old are your starting dwarves? Do they start at a certain "matured" age, or are they for all intents and purposes abnormally large babies? --[[User:Stryc9fuego|Stryc9fuego]] 10:00, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:I've had a few dogs die at around the five-year mark (these were ones I brought to the fortress when embarking). Not sure what that spells for dwarves, but it does show that the mechanics are in place for creatures dying of old age during play.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:51, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Meat industry

2008-11-20T23:23:55Z

Bilkinson:

Removed the verify for livestock breeding without being in contact; I've personally witnessed a female camel and a female horse locked deep inside my fortress get telepathically impregnated by outside animals. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Drawfirons|Drawfirons]]

: Telepathically impregnated by ''wild'' outside animals? It's not part of the original question, but it sounds like that's what you're saying. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:18, 8 November 2008 (EST)

I feel it should be mentioned somewhere that both hunting and livestock are non-renewable without some luck as to what animals are brought as pets with immigrants. Tame animals (those that are not pets) seem to be considered 'wild' in that they obey the limits set forth in the raw file for the number that will be 'spawned' (or born, if you will) before hitting a max. Basically, unnamed animals will eventually stop breeding, and only those pets with names will continue to breed. Hence why [[catsplosion]] is so bad, and why it doesn't happen with any other animals. Barring the ability to assign other animals to dwarves (and hence, give them names) I don't think meat is a very viable industry in the long term. --Gotthard 18:44, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:I've seen one player claim that wild animals can be hunted to extinction. I haven't seen that myself. Barring that, hunting is renewable, albeit limited.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:06, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:: Are you saying there's a cap on live+deceased animals? If livestock doesn't need to cross paths in order to impregnate, then the meat industry is perfectly viable, although there may be some framerate issues if you choose to do more than one type of livestock -- just list one bull and eight cows as available for adoption. As for the extinction thing, are you sure he wasn't talking about the Cancel Hunt messages that say something like "There are no animals in the swamps" or somesuch? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:::I have no idea what the "extinct animals" poster had experienced. I have my doubts about the claim, but can't rule out that it happened, at least to him.

:::There ''is'' a population cap on animals (per-species). It used to be 80, I believe, but it seems more like 50 these days. I haven't formally tested it, but my suspicion is that once you hit that population cap, breeding for that species ceases permanently, even if their count falls below the cap again. If that's true, then animal breeding is a finite resource, unless you cull their numbers carefully to keep them under the limit at all times.

:::I'm presently setting up a mega-corral, so I'll be testing it soon.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:57, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:When I say renewable, I mean will never run out. Trees are renewable, given space to grow. Hunted animals are not. It isn't a *claim* that animals can be hunted to extinction, the numbers are in the raws for each particular animal. After that many of animals exist (living or dead I presume), no more are generated, whether through off-map activity, or being born as offspring. The same is true for livestock brought with you, or traded. The only animals that do NOT obey this limitation are pets (and perhaps named animals in general). I have had the same base for 15 years, and I haven't had any offspring from horses, dogs, or cows in about 9ish years. However, there are still animals being born, and I've traced the number per year back to the number of female pets I have. I'm not sure if named pets only mate with named pets, but a single female pet doesn't seem to yield any offspring (but this should be verified). I had about 20ish puppies per year at max, and it abruptly stopped. It has recently started up again, as puppies brought as pets have matured. Same thing for horses and cows, but it is slow. Frankly, with immigration stopping, and no way to assign pets (iirc?) my animal "home grown" animal supply will soon dry out. The same is not true of turtles, they seem to respawn, but I think fish fall into this category, my river hasn't had anything but turtles for 10ish years. --Gotthard 23:20, 9 November 2008 (EST)

::Well, if you're referring to [POPULATION_NUMBER], [[Creature_tokens#P]] says that that is the minimum/maximum number that can show up on a map in the space of a year. I've killed something like 150 bonobos on my map, but they're still coming.

::Tame animals, on the other hand, clearly have hard population limits (otherwise they'd breed into the thousands and turn every fortress into a "tribbles" episode). As I posted above, it appears that once that population limit is reached, breeding stops permanently (I'll have to test it further at some point). As far as I can tell, however, that limit does not apply to wildlife. It probably doesn't apply to wildlife even after you've hit the limit on tame animals of the same species. (It's been a while, but I once had a fort with a bunch of domesticated musk oxen. I think wild ones still showed up long after the tame ones stopped breeding.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:23, 10 November 2008 (EST)

:::Do you know if this was changed recently? Best I can recall, EVERY fortress I've started has eventually killed off all non-aggressive wildlife. I'm not sure, but bonobos may be somehow classified as 'invaders' (aren't they the ones that steal everything?) so perhaps there are no limits on them. It takes me ~3 years to kill off all the wildlife on my map, and after that nothing else shows up. I took the numbers in the raw to be a global maximum in existence... I can verify tame animals stop breeding after a max is hit, and they do NOT start breeding again after the number goes below this. However, I'm fairly certain there is a max limit present for tame animals, as I went through cows pretty regularly, culling the population to keep it manageable. My money is on a global max ever, not alive at any one point, but I could be wrong. (Also, I think wild and tame ones are calculated separately... does your tone indicate they eventually stopped as well?)--Gotthard 22:08, 14 November 2008 (EST)

::::Bonobos are "wild animals" in my unit list, and they aren't one of the thieving species. I'm not sure whether all wildlife can be killed off; we need more people to chime in about their experiences. My bonobo death count is about 200 now, and shows no sign of stopping. (I've been using nerve-injured soldiers, not hunters, to do the killing.) However, I also finally have a breeding stock of tame bonobos, and I'll let them breed up to the max to see if affects their migrating onto the map. My bet is that the species cap is just for breeding, not migration.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:13, 14 November 2008 (EST)

:::::I'm not doubting your experience, but I've had 4-5 maps where I consistently run out of deer. The species cap there seems to function fine, I *never* had any deer offspring, just hunted them for a while until they stopped (year 3-4ish). I can't verify wolves, however. So bonobos aren't predatory at all? I was thinking maybe more 'aggressive' animals (even if they're not thieves) may reproduce ad infitum. Or perhaps I scared them all off with my deer genocide? I mean anytime a deer showed up, I had 3 guys run down and punch it to death. Are you nicer to your bonobos? And have you seen that with any other animals? I've run out of hoary marmonts, mountain goats, and deer (on separate maps). Sorry to be insistent, but this seems like one area we don't have a lot of info. --Gotthard 22:42, 18 November 2008 (EST)

::::::No, I understand -- I'd like to figure it out too. Actually, on my current map, something totally unexpected happened. I've been keeping all my strays (of any species) in cages, and I haven't had any cow births since the beginning of the game. I've also been buying every animal brought by traders, so was well above the limit. I decided to slaughter all my cows to see what would happen. I killed all of them, or nearly so, and suddenly all the pet cows are giving birth. (There are 4 pet cows and two pet bulls in the fortress.)

::::::As for the wild bonobos, they're still coming. And elephants. And mountain goats. And hoary marmots. None of them are predators. (I do get zombie mountain goats and hoary marmots as well.) But I've been posting soldiers to kill them for years now, and have killed many hundreds of animals. Some animals tend to escape, since the soldiers stay near their station point instead of tracking down every last animal, like hunters will. Maybe that's what makes the difference.

::::::I did have a single crocodile and some ogres show up in the first year, and never again. For any given fortress, there may just be some animals that are finite and some that are unlimited. We should post to the forums soliciting other players' experiences to see what kind of generalizations can be made.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:32, 19 November 2008 (EST)

:::::::I had pet horses start to breed when I butchered most of the stray horses. So that part, at least, seems to be reproduceable.

:::::::I had three waves or so of macaques spawn, running them down with soldiers each time, and now they've stopped coming (they came about once a year for three years, and then I haven't seen them in the eight years since).

:::::::The map keeps spawning one- and two-humped camels. I trap and tame them, but nobody's interested in adopting them. It'll be interesting to see if eventually I run out. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 12:41, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::::::::Are they still in cages? Dwarves won't adopt them unless they're roaming (or maybe on a chain... I haven't tested that yet).--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:30, 20 November 2008 (EST)
:::::::::Huh, is that for all livestock? No wonder I have such issues getting those tamed vermin adopted... I stuck them all in a cage for convenience. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 18:11, 20 November 2008 (EST)

== Breeding turtles ==

While it doesn't really fall under the category of the "leather industry" that the top of the page claims, is it possible to do animal husbandry with turtles? It would be nice to be able to have a ready supply of them. I lack unfrozen water on my current map, so I can't rely on spawning turtles, but I do have three tame turtles from the caravans. My suspicion is that vermin aren't treated as animals, so there's to be no turtle breeding, but I know they are special cases in other ways, so I figured it might be worth a try. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 18:16, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:I don't think it's possible to release tame vermin from containment. They're always either in a cage, or in a small animal trap. That would keep them from breeding even if they were otherwise normal animals.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:23, 20 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Soldier

2008-11-14T14:29:34Z

Bilkinson:

I currently have a champion who will not obey orders. She has picked a station herself and remains there no matter what I do. Is this a champion behavior in 2.7?--[[User:Mlcy]]
:Champions always behaved that way as far as I know. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:40, 28 November 2007 (EST)

== No more sparring? ==

For some reason, my military has stopped sparring. I have 4 Wrestler Champions, 2 Wrestler Elites, 1 Wrestler, and they're all 'Soldier'ing. I now want to bring them all up to legendary Swordsdwarves too, but they just. Won't. Train. They have swords and a barracks, and they're not on duty. Still no training. Help? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 07:09, 3 December 2007 (EST)
:Make sure there is a barrack designated for them to train. You may have unconstructed one of the furniture from which you've designated the room, so you'd need to do it again. Also, dwarves need to train in pair, and they don't always train. They often take breaks. This mean that the biggest the amount of trainees you have, the greatest the chance two of them will head at the same time to the barracks to train. Also, they will never train unless you go in the military screen, enter each individual squad setting with {{K|v}} and then hit {{K|t}} to make them "stand down". Don't forget to do exactly the same again to place them "on duty" if you ever want to send them fighting again. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:26, 3 December 2007 (EST)
:: Viable barracks, check. Several pairs, check. Stood down, check. The weird thing is that they were sparring like nutters in order to get up to Champion, and then they all just lost interest and started Soldiering. I note above that Champions have a mind of their own - maybe they can't be trained to legendary in an additional weapon, or stop sparring altogether at legendary? Also, there's an unresolved post in the bug forum that suggests that dwarves only spar for 3 years. Odd. I'm not hugely bothered because there's nothing for the army to kill; no sieges and no megabeasts. Bit boring, really. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 19:31, 3 December 2007 (EST)
::: I think I ran into the "no sparring after 3 years" bug, as my champions stopped sparring after around 3-4 years, then never sparred for the next 10 years, even when I drafted new recruits. They started sparring when I (f)reed the existing barracks and redesignated a new one from an armor rack instead of a bed.--[[User:Langdon|Langdon]] 00:02, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

== only water? ==
Do soldiers only drink water? Both those who carry water and those who dont, complain about not having had booze for too long and becoming slow. Even the ones who are standing down dont seem to get booze. My piles are loaded and my civilians are ok, so that cant be the problem. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 16:26, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:They should only do that if you have them set to use waterskins. It's generally better to just have them not use waterskins so that they'll go for a refreshing alcoholic beverage when they need a drink like regular dwarves. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 19:11, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:: I think i have it worked out; they don't drop the waterskin, even if you make them civilians or tell them not to carry water, and they use up the water inside before going for booze again. What you can do is order the waterskin dumped and a fellow dwarf will take it off him. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:09, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

== Cluttering my stockpiles ==

My soldiers are leaving their junk, mostly clothing, laying all over the place. I have a barracks room with about 20 beds in it, although its all the same room. Can I just throw some coffers in the barracks room for them to put their stuff, or do I need to designate individual rooms with containers in them? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 01:33, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

I made each of the beds separate rooms and put in a bunch of coffers, they are not moving their stuff, do i have to assign the barracks bedrooms, or will they claim them? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 12:17, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

Okay, I feel dumb now. I am putting cabinets in the rooms as well... --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 12:28, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

Alright, I have cabinets next to every bed, as well as coffers, and they are assigned to dwarfs. They still are not moving their possessions. Is there any other way to move them? Dumping does not work, and neither do stockpiles for that item. --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 14:15, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
:Undraft them and wait. If you are lucky, they might decide to clean their junk. If you are VERY lucky. They won't do it, while drafted, EVEN if they are standing down.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:09, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
::Thanks for the tip, they seem to be cleaning up their stuff... very very slowly. I think this is going to take awhile. --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 01:01, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

== Overcoming Sobriety ==

I left a Champion on Use Waterskin for too long, and now he's beyond caring about the world. Any idea how long he'll take to drink himself out of his apathy? [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 14:32, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

:I'm confused... you can't directly make a dwarf only drink water. Anyway, "beyond caring" is, IIRC, caused by seeing lots of death, and it's a good thing (I believe it limits the effect of negative thoughts, while also limiting positive ones). [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 18:37, 13 November 2008 (EST)

::Actually, a soldier assigned a waterskin will indeed drink only water, which is why you should ''never assign them waterskins''. Hrmph. And "not caring about anything anymore" is caused by witnessing a lot of death, and is, like you say, a good thing, despite how it sounds.

::Did the soldier get back on the bottle, Romeo?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:57, 13 November 2008 (EST)

== The Cripple Squad ==

I have a military consisting of roughly a half marksdwarves, a fifth champions, and the rest melee dwarves. Unfortunatly, most of these melee users have spinal injuries (brown-ish or grey). Luckily, most of them are right below "great" in their primary skill. Would it be in my best interests to slap on a custom title and send them to do civilian work?

== The enemy of my enemy is my friend ==

Should we note that, at least in my game, soldiers tend to become friends with other soldiers quickly? Currently some of my nobles and even some of my more "sociable" dwarves (the ones working in areas with many other people) have no friends, yet a recently drafted recruit is already friends with one of my marksdwarves. I think this subject could do with some research (including of squadmates tend to be friends, if squad captains tend to be friends with one another, etc.)[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 03:51, 14 November 2008 (EST)
:Soldiers take a moment to chat after they spar together, presumably talking about their sparring. Since talking becomes part of their routine, soldiers make friends with the other soldiers pretty quickly. In most of my fortresses, most civilians are lucky to have 2 friends, while soldiers usually have 5-10.
:Incidentally, this is a huge problem for the mood of your armed forces; having a squad wiped out is quite likely to cause tantrums in the other squads. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 00:19, 14 November 2008 (EST)
:: Damn I keep forgetting to sign. Anyway, yeah, one of my champions happens to have something along the lines of 27 friends and all proficient or near proficient talking skills... 0_o. Now I can see destroying my (mostly friendly firing) atom smasher was an even smarter move (last time I only lost an expert marksdwarf). [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 03:51, 14 November 2008 (EST)
::This can also lead to soldiers falling in love and marrying quite often, leading to some of your forces wading into battle wielding babies... --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 09:29, 14 November 2008 (EST)

40d:Meat industry

2008-11-06T21:18:09Z

Bilkinson: Hunting can be performed unarmed. It's just more dangerous and less efficient than weapon use.

This article is a quick guide to running a '''leather industry.'''

Kill and butcher animals to separate bones, raw hides and meat. Tan the hide before it goes bad, and then convert the leather into an end product. Because many steps require materials which can [[rot]], this industry requires slightly more micromanagement than other industries.

== Animals ==
Your raw material source are [[animal]]s. You can either [[hunt]] for animals or raise your own animals. Each option has its own merits and neither produces a completely regular supply. Alternately, you can simply buy [[leather]] from [[traders]], bypassing many of the time-limited steps and instead getting infrequent, large influxes of source material.

=== Buying from traders ===

If you wish to import leather in sufficient quantity to keep your [[leather worker]]s occupied year-round, then you must request leather from the the trading liaisons. Request every type of leather as a low priority to ensure they come back with sufficient quantity next year. You can only buy leather from [[human]]s and [[dwarf]] caravans.{{verify}}

=== Hunting ===
''Requires: a [[hunter/ambusher]], and [[wildlife]]''.

In order to hunt for animals, you must place your [[fortress]] in a [[biome]] which contains wildlife. You will also need to assign a [[dwarf]] to the [[hunting]] labor.

A dwarven hunter will wear leather [[armor]], and equip himself with the weapon indicated in the [[military]] screen. Note that a hunter who is also a [[wood cutter]] will hunt with an axe, and a [[miner]] will hunt with a [[pick axe]]{{verify}}. Ranged attacks reduce the potential for injury, so using [[crossbow]]s is preferable. Note that failing to assign a weapon to your hunter will cause the dwarf to attempt to wrestle animals to death. As wrestling generally takes longer to kill than other forms of combat, and the randomly-chosen target of a hunt may be part of a hostile pack, it is extremely unwise to forget this step.

You may also wish to assign one or more trained [[dog]]s to your hunter to provide backup. Hunting dogs will sneak alongside your dwarf, while the easier-to-detect war dogs do twice as much damage once they get into melee range.{{verify}}

Any dwarf who owns a pet, including assigned dogs, should have the [[animal caretaker]] labor activated.


Before sending your hunter out, you should draft him into the [[military]] and train him in wrestling (to dodge incoming attacks) and his weapon of choice. In order for your hunter to spar, you will need a barracks (room designated from a [[weapon rack]], [[armor stand]] or [[bed]]. Sparring unarmed will train wrestling, which is used to dodge. Sparring with a melee weapon will train the weapon skill. Both forms of sparring will also train Armor Use and Shield Use, if the hunter has been assigned such things. [[Archery target]]s and bone bolts will train marksdwarfship. Sparring requires a partner also drafted in the military (both must be off-duty). Archery practice does not.

When your hunter selects the Hunt task, he will choose a specific animal, approach it, engage in combat with it. Hopefully, he will kill the animal. Then he will Return Kill to a refuse stockpile.{{verify}} The hunter may have to defend himself against other wilderness animals while hunting. If he does so, he will not return any of those kills. In order to avoid wasting these kills, you will need to set your general {{k|o}}rders to gather refuse from outside, although this choice carries its own set of risks.

Because of the time-sensitive nature of the rest of the production tree, it is not recommended to have more than one

==== Trapping ====
''Requires cages and a mechanic''

It is also possible to acquire animals through judicious use of [[cage trap]]s. This is a very subtle science, and outside the scope of this article. Animals (and sentient creatures) caught in cage traps will be delivered to an animal stockpile. The trap will then be reset with a fresh cage.

=== Livestock ===

Rather than subjecting your hunter to the dangers of [[cave adaptation]] and wild beasts, you can raise your own livestock. You will need one male animal and at least one female animal of the same type, acquired through the starting purchase screen or from [[caravan]]s (you can request live animals under the pets menu when speaking to the liaison).

Some immigrants may arrive with pets of their own which will happily breed with any available animal. Slaughtering pets will generate bad [[thoughts]] and therefore is to be avoided.

Animals purchased through a trader will come in a [[cage]] that is left in your animal [[stockpile]]. You do not need to build the cage in order to slaughter the caged creature, you can slaughter it through the stock menu. However, caged animals will not breed.

==== Breeding ====
''Requires tame animals, one male and at least one female of the same type. Optionally requires [[chain]]s.''

Although [[horses]] and [[donkeys]] can mate to create [[mules]] in the real world, they will not do so in the game.{{verify}} Owned pets can be slaughtered through the stock{{k|z}} menu, but will cause your dwarf owner to become upset at the animals death.

Animals do not need to be in the same room or come into contact with each other in order to breed.{{verify}}

You can let your '''tame''' animals wander your fortress freely, or chain them to a particular spot in order to reduce processor load on the game. A large number of free-roaming livestock can seriously impact game performance.

Trained war dogs are incredibly useful, so it is not recommended to consider them part of your livestock.

[[Cat]]s reduce [[vermin]] and keep dwarves [[happy]], but can quickly breed to the point where it seriously affects game performance. Quickly caging newborn kittens overcomes this problem (see Zoo, below).

==== Zoo ====
''Requires a [[cage]], and several [[restraint|chains/ropes]]''

In order to breed, animals must be uncaged, but too many free animals can affect game performance. On the other hand, only adults can breed, so animal children can be caged. A zoo is an excellent solution.

There are many reasons why your zoo should contain one, and only one cage:
* Cages can hold an unlimited number of animals, so you only need one
* Caged animals do not affect processor speed
* Distinguishing between breeding animals and butcherable livestock is easier when clearly separated.
* Caged cats cannot adopt owners
* Zoos have additional benefits to overall fortress wealth, dwarven happiness, etc

Place several chains/ropes in your zoo as well, and assign breeding animals to these chains. An animal which is chained can be available for adoption, while remaining chained.{{verify}} This can assist you in making sure you don't accidentally kill your only male of a particular type. Whenever you see an announcement indicating that an animal has given birth, assign those baby animals to the cage. This is especially important with kittens, as kittens can adopt owners, taking them out of the leather-pool.

Animals provide the same amount of meat, bones and hide when they are children, so you do not need to wait until they grow up. However, the more females of each animal type, the more often you will get more animals of that type.

Ten (10) free-roaming cats should be more than adequate to keep vermin under control. On the other hand, if you keep kittens caged until they grow up, you can be sure to maintain your cat population. Admittedly, this is rarely a problem.

== Butchering ==
''Requires a [[Butcher's Shop]], a [[butcher]] and [[animal]]s. Ideally, the animal should not be a pet.''

Once an butcherable animal has been killed, you have a limited amount of time to actually butcher the corpse before it rots.

A [[Butcher's Shop]] will automatically queue tasks whenever an animal is available to be butchered. However, this still requires an available dwarf with the Butcher labor enabled, and that dwarf may not get around to it in time if he has many other labors enabled.

Once butchered, an animal will yield a quantity of meat, bones, raw hide and one skull. If the corpse is left too long, it will rot, yielding the same amount of bones and a skull, but depriving you of the meat and hide. Because none of these items have a quality rating, and the amount produced is independent of skill, any untrained dwarf is suitable for the task. Skill ratings only affect the amount of time it takes for them to complete the task.{{verify}}

Meat goes to your food stockpile. Bones and raw hides go to the refuse stockpile.

== Using the animal products==
===Bone carving===
''Requires: [[Bone crafter]], [[craftdwarves workshop]], and some [[bone]]s and [[skull]]s''

Butchering an animal produces quite a few bones and a skull. By setting up a craftdwarf workshop nearby you can turn these into useful products, such as bone bolts for your [[archer]]s to practice with.

The only useful thing to do with a skull is turn it into a [[totem]] for [[trading]]. Note that totems do not fall under any category in the "Move trade goods to depot" screen, and so you need to {{k|s}}earch for them.

===Meat and fat===
''Requires: a [[cook]], a [[kitchen]], and some [[meat]] or [[fat]]''

[[Fat]] can be rendered into [[tallow]] at a [[kitchen]], and then used as an ingredient in meals. Meat can be eaten raw, or used as an ingredient.

=== Tanning ===
''Requires: a [[tanner]], a [[tanner's shop]], , and [[raw hide]]''

Like the Butcher's Shop, the Tanner's Shop will queue tasks automatically, generates a set number of items independent of skill and this task is time-sensitive, as raw hides can rot.

A single dwarf can be assigned the butcher and tanner task, as you will never need to tan until you butcher. You can also make this same dwarf your Leatherworker, but then it is wise to only slaughter (or hunt) for animals after you have depleted your current supply of tanned hides. In this manner, you decrease the chance of any material rotting before it can be processed

Once a hide has been tanned, it goes into the Leather stockpile.

=== Leatherworking ===
''Requires: [[Leather works]], a [[leatherworker]], and [[tanned hide]]''

Once you have tanned hides, you can use them to produce leather goods in the [[Leather Works]].

== Summary of requirements ==

=== Hunter / Hunting ===
* a crossbow or other weapon
** bolts
*** bone bolts for practice
*** any bolt for hunting
* leather armor
* a shield
* Barracks
** A sparring partner
* Archery Target

=== Animal Trapper ===
* Mechanic
* Mechanic's Workshop
** mechanisms
* cages

=== Animal Husbandry ===
* cages
* chains or ropes

=== Processing ===
* Butcher / Butchery
**Butcher's Shop
* Tanner / Tanning
** Tanner's Shop
* Leatherworker / Leatherworking
** Leather Works
* Bone Crafter
** Craftdwarf's Shop
* Cook
** Kitchen
** Barrels

==See also==
*[[Leather]]
*[[The clothing industry]]

{{Workshops FAQ}}
[[Category:Quick guide]]
[[Category:Materials]]
[[Category:Industry]]

40d Talk:Brook

2008-11-05T04:07:54Z

Bilkinson:

===Fishable?===
Might be worth mentioning if brooks are normal water with respect to fishability, or whether a channel needs to be dug first. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:31, 11 November 2007 (EST)

I suppose so, since it is a potential source of confusion.
--[[User:Dryn|Dryn]] 22:23, 28 November 2007 (EST)

== damming ==

# How do I know which side of my dam is going to be dry, before I dam a brook? (ie which way does the water flow, if the entire z-level is level, and the brook stays on the whole z-level from one edge of the screen to the other??)
# Will it cause a flood, when I dam a brook, if I don't leave a spillway?
# If I channel my brook so it is non-walkable, will it still freeze in winter?

[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:37, 9 February 2008 (EST)

:#Check the edges of the brook that meet the map, one of them will be losing water. That's the downstream side.
:#Assuming this is the same level brook, no, as the dam would be at the same level as the source.
:#Channeling will simply remove the brook floor tiles, the brook itself will still freeze, like any exposed water.

[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:36, 13 February 2008 (EST)

== Magma vs. Brook ==

So I've been playing around with magma and a brook, and in addition to setting about twenty dwarves on fire, I discovered some interesting things. The first I posted to the [[magma]] article a few days ago: namely, magma coming in contact with a brook will cause the water below the brook to harden to obsidian, but does not seem to produce steam. When I dug the obsidian out, I discovered WHY: magma falls through the brook floor tiles (and onto my miners, who of course catch on fire, and go back to their barracks to "sleep it off". Yeah. That went well). This also gives the brook tile the appearance of a boulder, but it does not obstruct wagons, and if you {{k|k}} over it, the description is still "brook". So now I'm curious: Does water fall through the brook floor tiles as well? Once I've finished draining the brook, perhaps I'll build a water pump and find out. If so, that would mean that brook "floor tiles" act like floor grates, or possibly floor bars: that is, solid things (or solid things larger than vermin) cannot pass through, but fluids can. Which kind of makes sense. Any thoughts? Has someone already done this? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:17, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

:While the end effect might be the same I think you would find that when the magma comes in contact with the brook, some of the '''magma''' is turned to obsidian boulders by the '''water'''. The rest of the magma then falls through the boulders to the next level. The water would not become obsidian. Possibly the water is not even destroyed, just displaced... that would probably need source diving to work out. (I would guess that when a channel of magma reaches a brook tile there is infinately more water than magma - there would only be 1 x 7 units of magma but every brook tile and every aquifer tile is a gate to the elemental plane of water)[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:11, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
:My second point is, there is a huge difference between the natural surface of the brook and a ground layer scattered by obsidian boulders. You can tunnel under a brook, if you keep resetting all the "wet rock detected" stuff. I think magma would be destroying non-magma safe surfaces it is resting on that would be why it is "falling through".[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:14, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

::Research, continued:
::(1)Water will, in fact, pass downward through the surface of a brook. I dried up a brook, then pumped water onto its surface. The brook got muddy, and the tiles below suddenly had water.
::(2)If you dry up the water under the brook floor, the brook tile dries up; the character for a dry brook is the same as that for a boulder. This same character is visible on the tile below the brook floor (that is, at the level where the actual water would otherwise be). If you turned the water to obsidian with magma, you can mine it out to form an obsidian floor, but the upper tile will still be the dried brook character. If you run water over the floor, the dried brook character above turns back to a flowing brook character.
::(3)Dwarves do not appear to be able to walk on the bed (that is, the lower level) of a dried-up brook. A player can designate these tiles for digging (as in {{k|d}},{{k|d}} - which strikes me as weird) but dwarves will not dig them out.
::Addressing Garrie's points above:
::(1)It's my understanding, based on reading the wiki and my own observations, that any amount of water in a tile and any amount of magma in that same tile produces obsidian (and steam, which in the case of brooks appears trapped under the surface of the brook). The fact that the water replenishes does not affect this. I've dammed my brook in this manner twice now.
::(2)There is indeed a huge difference between the natural surface of a brook and a field full of boulders; my further research has shown what is going on here. As to magma destroying non-magma-safe surfaces: I believe (though I've not tested it) that this is the case for constructed surfaces. Magma will not melt naturally occurring floors, even if the area below has been mined out (this I have done myself). The fact that water also passes through the surface of the brook, and that the surface of the brook remains after the magma passes through it, leads me to believe my original analysis is correct.
::Oh, erm, I sound so severe. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 15:48, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

== Wagons ==

Can wagons travel along non-dried-up brooks, or do they need to be dammed up first? My latest fort is in some rough terrain, so I was thinking the local brook would make a good substitute for a road, and I didn't feel like wasting any dwarven human resources. --[[User:Toastdieb]]

:Brooks are small rivers that have a floor on top of them. So, yes. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 00:10, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

== What the hell? ==

If he wanted to simulate a shallow river, why not just have a bunch of depth-2 water tiles flow through the map? Why have a bunch of depth-7 tiles with a floor on top of them? When you cross a brook, you're wading through the water, not walking across the top. And the game already simulates wading through water.

Can someone explain why it works this way?

: I see it as representing a mass of loose mud/gravel that's saturated with water. It's effectively solid when walking over the top, but if you dig a hole in (channel) or around it, the hole floods. That's good enough for me, at least. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 23:07, 4 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Engraver

2008-10-30T00:28:40Z

Bilkinson:

"This may not be desirable since a number of other valuable skills that are harder to train. In such cases, consider [[pump operator|pump operating]] an alternative."

what are you trying to tell us? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:44, 26 February 2008 (EST)

:Full paragraph quote:
::However, if engraving is a dwarf's highest skill, it is likely that if that dwarf enters and completes a [[strange mood]], then the dwarf will reach legendary status in engraving. This may not be desirable since a number of other valuable skills that are harder to train. In such cases, consider [[pump operator|pump operating]] an alternative.
:Makes perfect sense to me. "This" refers to conclusion of the previous sentance. Your moody engravers become legendary engravers (which im not sure is accurate for most recent vers; bears testing). So less engravers = less wasted moods. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:15, 27 February 2008 (EST)

::What's so bad about legenday engraver? Really helps kill those sadness streaks dwarves get when friends die -

::Quoted from the forums:
:::Dwarf 1:woe is me, my best friend the military champion died and he's gone and rotted away in the air :(
:::Dwarf 2:Hey did you see that new legendary dining room with all the masterpiece engravings and exceptional aluminium chairs and tables?
:::Dwarf 1:Hey was I sad before oh well I'm happy now :D

::--[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 07:06, 27 February 2008 (EST)

:::The thing about engravers is that for the most part they advance in skill quickly on their own, unless you have very little stone or ice in your fortress. So getting a legendary engraver through a strange mood is a bit of a waste, considering there are some skills that are harder and more time consuming to train (like glassmaking and metalsmithing skills).
[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 13:58, 27 February 2008 (EST)

:: Read again, ''carefully''. Among other things, the grammar is mangled. I can only guess the intended meaning: If you have spare dwarves, let them pump, not engrave, cos a legendary pump operator is more valuable. But the intention of the writer is not clear. Also: why pump operator? You don't necessarily have a setup where you can pump away without undesired consequences. And who uses manual pumping anyway with the beautiful and efficient machinery available? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 17:07, 27 February 2008 (EST)
:::The grammar is fine. There's a bit of a style issue with the long sentence. I really don't see what's confusing about it. It advocates using pump operating instead of engraving to raise dwarf stats because a moods can't buff the pump operating skill. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 17:22, 27 February 2008 (EST)

This may not be desirable since '''there is''' a number of other valuable skills that are harder to train.

This may not be desirable since a number of other valuable skills <s>that are</s> is harder to train.

Now, IANANS, but i did sleep this time ;).

Sorry to nitpick but grammar aside there were just to many details implied but not mentioned. How about the current reword?--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 17:48, 27 February 2008 (EST)

==Legendary clerk/bookkeeper==
I can verify this would never happen from a strange mood. On the other verify, has anyone witnessed an Engraver become anything else than a Legendary engraver after a strange mood?

== Recursive ==

I just had a dwarf carve an masterpiece image of herself carving a masterpiece image. Narcissism?
: Worse - Recursion. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 14:32, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

== Strange mood? How? ==
How can an engraver enter a strange mood? What workshop does he take over? Does he demand a smoothed, undamaged section of wall designated for engraving? 
--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 14:21, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
: He enters a strange mood by adding a blinking exclamation mark to himself. He takes over a mason's shop or a craftsdwarf shop, or some other shop if he had a good skill in it. He demands the same random barrage of stuff anybody else requires, sometimes with the base material related to the shop he's in. No, he does not demand a smooth section of wall, but you can bet there'll be an image of himself recursively engraving that selfsame image on it. --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 23:44, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
: Mine have consistently taken over a Mason's Workshop. And yes, they do a bit of masonry and get Legendary engraving. It doesn't make sense, but there it is. This may change with The Toady One's planned change to engraving to allow gemstones to be incorporated for detail work (thereby allowing one to gather materials for an artifact). -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:04, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
: Addendum - According to the [[Strange mood]] article, like Miners, they sometimes take over a Craftsdwarf workshop instead and create a stone craft instead of furniture. I would guess that it's because Miners and Engravers are of the "stone type" that they get these two options. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:08, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
:: That's silly. Why is 'engraver' a strange-moodable skill when it can't produce an artifact engraving?
::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:13, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
::: *shrug* More to the point, why is Mining a strange-moodable skill? Dwarves are weird and twisted little creatures. Engraving actually makes more sense to me because it could potentially become an artifact-capable skill with the current dev plans. Mining... who's going to pull together 2 feather tree logs, an uncut sapphire, a turtle shell, and titan bones to carve out a hunk of rock? However, while engraving has plans to add materials (The Toady One has teased us with text along the lines of "This is an engraving of a demon and a dwarf engaging in unnatural acts. The demon's eyes and the dwarf's blood shines with the red of inlaid ruby."), I could see it still not being included because part of artifacts is the idea that they can be moved to where they are most handy. I could just see an engraver deciding to carve his masterpiece on the wall of one of the Peasant Haulers. Cue in years of Nobles kvetching about the lower class having better rooms than them. Then again, that kind of sounds like fun...
:::-[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:52, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
::::I shudder at the thought of dealing with such a room once dwarven economy kicked in. Too small to contain the things a noble or legend demands, too expensive for anyone else.
::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 17:28, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
:::::You could just put the rest of the noble's furniture in on of their other rooms. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 20:28, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Engraver

2008-10-28T18:32:25Z

Bilkinson:

40d Talk:Gauntlet

2008-10-22T13:07:44Z

Bilkinson:

==Artifact Gauntlet==
I have an artifact turtle shell gauntlet, but since there's only one (obviously), can my soldiers wear it? It should provide extra damage protection.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 03:48, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:: They'll wear mismatched pairs of boots, so I don't see why they wouldn't wear mismatched gauntlets. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 05:36, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Just keep in mind that only champions will claim it, and once they do they'll never put it down. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 09:07, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Bolt

2008-10-20T15:30:59Z

Bilkinson:

"Metal bolts ... are considered too valuable to be wasted on practice." Is that a rule enforced by the game, or the contributor's opinion? --[[User:Tocky|Tocky]] 14:13, 11 November 2007 (EST)

: The game. [[User:Calculus|Calculus]] 14:22, 11 November 2007 (EST)
::Besides have you ever traded bolts or arrows? They are ☼expensive☼. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 22:39, 10 February 2008 (EST)
:::If I wanted to edit the raws so that dwarves would practice with iron bolts, where would I head to for that? I've searched for the word "bolt" in all of them and there doesn't seem to be a cut and dry way to do it like there is say for making a particular type of dirt suitable sand for glassmaking --[[User:Neatoburrito|Neatoburrito]] 16:45, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

how much wood is needed for one bolt? checking.. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:37, 10 February 2008 (EST)
:seems one log makes 25 bolts? anyone agree? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:11, 10 February 2008 (EST)
::Yes, one log makes 25 bolts. --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 11:21, 11 April 2008 (EDT)

What's the point of encrusting ammo? Just increases value? [[User:Vaniver|Vaniver]] 15:13, 17 May 2008 (EDT)
:Ja. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:16, 18 May 2008 (EDT)

== bolts ==

am i the only one that has dwarves run out to the middle of nowhere, pick up a single bolt, then put it in a bin?--[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 08:57, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
:That doesn't happen to me. When a dwarf fires a bolt it should automatically be forbidden and have {} around the name, in which case they won't pick it up. Probably the bolts somehow got unforbidden. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 18:09, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

== Recovering bolts ==

can someone confirm that once fired there is no way to re-stack individual bolts?

Assuming this is right I have been setting them to be melted... I have no source of iron nor flux so I can't make steel but I have furnace operators galore and magma.

1 bar produces 25 bolts.

When melted, how many bolts produce 1 bar?

[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:56, 20 September 2008 (EDT)
:I had a similar idea, but no magma and I didn't want to spend that much coal. Assuming 25 bolts to a bar and the usual reclamation rate from melting, that's 250 bolts per bar! That's a lotta melting... If you do decide to try this, see what kinds of results you get. If 250 is too many for use, it's pretty well established for things like plate mail that it's 3/10 of a bar per suit, so you could mix in some fractions. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:01, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

::[[melt]] discusses [[material size]] but I can't work out what the material size of a bolt is. [[melt]] also says:
:::''Melting objects nets you fewer bars of metal than were required to make them, although for some objects this loss is much greater than for others. Objects with relatively low loss rates include ammunition, ...''
::Is there an easy way to see the fractional number of bars currently stored in a smelter?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 23:54, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
:::No. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:12, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

Is there any way to recover bone bolts that have been fired at a target in practice? Or are they gone for good? --[[User:MrMustard|MrMustard]] 11:05, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

if you dig a trench behind the targets, and bolts that miss will fall in and be recoverable. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 11:30, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Challenges

2008-10-17T12:51:23Z

Bilkinson:

==Colorful==
This is an idea I got by reading trough all the challenges, what if you make it a goal to have the fortress in the colour of the rainbow. (Example, 80x80 tile fortress, first 10 tiles are red, second 10 tiles are brown-orange, the third 10 are yellow and go on) --[[User:G1real|G1real]] 08:43, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

==Sparta==
"You shouldn't create chainmail or plate armour."
 why? --Savok
:because spartans don't wear chest armor. you should definately watch 300, it's like Dwarf Fortress on crack! --AlexFili
::from what I've read, 300 isn't an accurate depiction of Spartan life. However, this challenge build is based on 300 --Savok
:::Alright, fair point, 300 was based from a graphic novel, but many similarities between Spartans in 300 and in real history are present. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 10:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
::::"However, this challenge build is based on 300" No it isn't. At least, it wasn't intended to be. I guess I shouldn't have referred to pop culture when I added it. --juckto
:::::The hell with it. Split off spartans from 300. [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 16:55, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
::::::Not only did Spartans use chest armour (although in the form of bronze muscel cuirasses), but it was illegal and finable to fight without your armour. Theres one story of a Prince praying in Temple when some enemies attacked, he ran out naked and killed them, the Oligarchs awarded and praised him with one hand and then fined him with the other. Further specific Spartan attributes, the largely did not wear sandals except during war (don't want your feet to be soft and flabby, gotta make them rock-proof), Sparta itself didn't rely on walls (although they did use them [notably at the battle of the Hot Gates to keep the Persians from landing south of the gates] and the city did eventually make some). Theres also the complicated issue of their government, not sure how to replicate that, dual monarchy with the Kings having no real governmental powers and an oligarchy ruling at home. Maybe having a Legendary warrior lead each of two squads and having every position (Book Keeper, Mayor, Captain of the Guard even maybe) filled by a useless fat rich guy in a nice shiny house. I should also point out alot of their generals and kings were known for a love of gold and that 50% of the population being in the military is not very accurate, actual Spartan soldiers were vastly outnumbered by the Helots. --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
==No mining==
Now that you construct walls and fortifications out of wood, I wonder if anyone is going to take on a 'no mining' challenge? You're going to need a ''lot'' of wood! --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 17:00, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Some people already are :p --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:44, 6 November 2007 (EST)

==Assassination==
I tried "Assassination" the other day and found that it was incredibly easy with a group of axedwarves. Not only did I kill the hardest-to-get-at goblin, I killed every last other goblin too. In the end, there were only 2 dogs and 2 dwarves dead (the last one fell, sadly, to the last goblin left, who was hiding in the tunnels.--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 22:51, 15 December 2007 (EST)

:Now do it with 7 untrained dwarves with no armor. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 19:30, 29 December 2007 (EST)

== Humanlike? ==
It should be noted that the 'human-like fortress' as described is historically inaccurate. In particular, its either misrepresenting or confusing various details. One major point is that a _castle_ never incorporated a town. There are walled towns and there are castles, but these are entirely different things. A couple of historical periods/styles would lead to the following different suggestions:

(A) Larger (stone) medieval castles sometimes had industry in the bailey. This was often pressed up against the outer wall to save on space and wall building. It was usually militarily useful industry (ie, metalsmithing of various types). Cooking and possibly brewing might also happen, and cooking at least would have been handled in the keep itself. Industries including jewelry, carpentry (on a permanent basis), and other non-military production would have been outside the castle, quite possibly in a town nearby.

(B) More isolated smaller castles would have done necessary production in the bailey on a temporary basis (ie, erecting a carpentry work area when needed and disassembling it afterwards), with a few permanent industries (notably blacksmithing).

(C) 'Dark Ages' castles would be made of wood, and weren't large enough to accomodate much industry. Instead they would have imported everything. The early castle was a defensible home for the lord and his family, and would only house them and a few military retainers.

It should be noted that the lack of focus on industry in a castle meant diverse tasks might share the same workspace and in fact be handled by the same person. The purpose of a castle is military, not production, and castle's only produced goods for internal demand that either could not be imported, would be inconvenient to import, or were critical to the military purpose (and couldn't afford access to those goods being lost during a siege).

(D) A walled town would have no keep. Nobles would not live there. Basically, towns would build a wall around their perimeter for defense. More important towns often grew to encompass nearby castles, and often outgrew their walls - which might either lead to substantial portions beyond the walls or accruing walls occasionally to encompass new growth. Despite a castle potentially being encompassed by a town, the castle and town were administratively separate - towns receiving independent charters from the crown - and the town was never subject to the lord of the castle (who may well control the surrounding countryside).

Given the nature of Dwarf Fortress, treating it as a town rather than a castle is probably preferable unless you really want to emphasize military skills, which could be interesting. You could, of course, create a castle and a town, keeping them as virtually separate entities, with military dwarves and nobles living in the castle and other dwarves living in the town.

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:11, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

:When did we start trying to make DF fit real-world history?
:His idea seems perfectly fine when compared to in-game human towns/cities, as they have a keep and whatnot as part of the city. Only difference is adding a wall around it all. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:25, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

== Insane Renegade (just a thought) ==

Well I was thinking something along these lines,

They all think that your crazy, so you and some others ran. You shouldn't trust them... They want you dead. Except for the (random profession/job) they think like you. KILL THEM KILL ALL THAT OPPOSE YOU!!,

Description:
Xenophobia, Do not trade with others, Kill all immigrants except ones of a certain job/profession. If you want to go as a truly insane person, ban all statues and engravings of Dwarven faces (the statues, THE ROCKS! THEY ALL WANT ME DEAD!!!!) Be prepared for a long life of hatred and sieges.

~LrZeph~

P.S. if anyone edits this and puts it on the main thing please give me partial credit... Thank you and goodnight!

:How is this different from [[Challenges#Outcast|Outcast]], aside from the RP? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:41, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

:: Oh dear, i missed that one. never mind

~LrZeph~ 15:11 23 June 2008

== Dystopian society ==

Anyone thought of making a fortress based off one of those dystopian futures found in scifi novels like 1984, We, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451? The way I imagine it, it would be similar to the Equaland challenge, with variations based on the dystopian principle of your choice. For example, if you want to encourage uniformity across your population, enable all labor for every dwarf and persecute anyone who skills up too quickly at a given skill. A strict caste system might also be implementable, a la Brave New World. Another idea would be to kill off or at least "re-educate" any dwarf that falls below ecstatic for an extended period of time. Tons of ideas at {{wiki|Dystopia}}. Thoughts? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

:That sounds like a good challenge. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:24, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

== Underwater Building ==

I've decided to take on the underwater building challenge, and have started Migrurmestthos, The Ocean-Citadel. But ah... I can't for the live of me figure out how I'm going to get glass blocks to the bottom of the ocean. Any ideas? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 20:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT) 
''P.S.: I've altered the creature tokens and set my Dwarves to Aquatic.''

:I recommend either
:#Don't build it in the ocean.
:#Use pumping to pump a large area of the top level of the ocean out. Do the same with a slightly smaller area one level down. Repeat as desired.
:#Pump the ocean out, build, then let it flow back in. This is like the above, but with the whole visible ocean. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:45, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Oookay, okay. I have single-handedly diverted the courses of raging rapids to give my children something to drink, harnessed the power of lava, and built towers of glass. However, I cannot help but approach the idea of pumping out '''the entire ocean''' with a bit of skepticism. Is this ''really'' possible? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 22:53, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

::::Aye, it is. Aside from waves, the "entire" ocean is really, due to map limitations, just a large, fast-refilling lake. If you build a ring of pumps properly, you should be able to clear the water from a section, which can be as large as your fortress map. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 02:34, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

::::: I've personally been using 'canals' in my fortress for quite a while, and what I do is simply allocate nobles' rooms along the side of the canal, and before flooding the waterway, I dig into it and build glass windows and blocks so the nobles can watch the fish swim by. I doubt it actually raises the room value by any more than the glass windows' base value, but I like the effect. This isn't really an "underwater city" per se, but it's born of the same concept. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 07:45, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

== Dwarf Factory ==

--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:12, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
Looking to develop this callenge concept:

Your fortress is a highly specialized industrial complex. Select one item, or very narrow category of items. (ie Flour, Scepters, Shoes, Silk Bags, Crossbow Bolts) This is your factory's product. You must produce as much of it as possible, and it may only be used for export to any any and all caravans which visit your factory. Set up shift schedules, assign massive teams of dwarves (or even all of them!) to your core product, and generally devote your fort to maximizing output.

Variants: 
Assembly line - Each Dwarf is assigned a single stage of the production cycle, this is their only labour. Workshops should be grouped togeather by type, ordered based on the production cycle and grouped with relevant stockpiles. 
Communal - Every Dwarf has every relevant labour enabled, in addition to whatever else they do for the fort. 
High Management - For each Task in your production, appoint a department head. As the number of workers in each department grows, start appointing shift managers. As your factory expands in size, appoint reigonal coordinators and quality control bureaus. Cap this off with a board of directors and a CEO. None of these dwarves do anything but fill noble slots and build social skills. 
Prison/Work Camp - Noble dwarves do not contribute to labour. Max the fortress/royal Guard at all times and draft 20% of the population into the army. The remaining dwarves are prisoners who must produce output. Build walls, rig traps, and make an example of anyone who fails to meet their quota. 
People's Glorious Five-Year Plan - As above, but arrive with no skilled workers, rig all facilities with self destructs and kill switches, and only arm one in ten of your soldiers. 

Bonus: Only produce things vital to the survival of your workers, or directly involved in making your product. Anything else must be imported. 
Further Bonus: Produce only your final product, all raw materials must be imported. spend the surplus on anything else you may need.

How's it sound?

== Luxurious Tomb ==

Build an extravagant mausoleum for your entire dwarf community. Make it multi-leveled, make it a pyramid, make it out of glass if you want - but it must serve no other purpose than to be a dying place, and must not be accessed for any purpose other than to build it. Add a few decorations here and there, statues, tables, and a whole lot of coffins to house everyone.

Once it's complete, turn your fortress into a ghost town. Remove the designation of all your stockpiles. Forbid all the workshops and forbid access to the different areas of the fort as they get deserted to limit dwarf movement. Lure everyone into the tomb, seal the entrance from the inside and watch everyone die inside their new mausoleum. The tomb should be designed such that the initial entry point cannot easily be guessed (i.e.: The entrance should be sealed using a wall or some other solid structure - not via a door you just mark forbidden.

BONUS: make access to the tomb difficult or impossible, either by causing a cave-in in the tunnel that leads towards it, or by flooding the surrounding area in water or magma.

BONUS #2: Build the tomb over a chasm. Find a way to drop the whole tomb-building into it once everyone's inside.

== Agoraphobia ==

Your dwarves are absolutely terrified of the great outdoors, ([[carp|and]] [[Elephant|with]] [[Giant eagle|good]] [[undead|reason]] and want nothing more than to be nestled tightly in the "[[Giant Cave Spider|relative]] [[Pit|saftey]]" of the underground. Upon arrival, immediately burrow into the ground and haul all your supplies out of the sun's glare, and then never set foot on the surface again. Also, to help reduce anxiety, have no single chamber larger than 5x5, and let no hall stretch farther than 5 tiles between doors.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 11:42, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

== <insert material> Fort....wait, what? ==

Ok, now I can understand a glass fort...and I can understand making it all outside, but how does one build it under water? Can someone please tell me how to do this so I can try to create my own Dwarven SeaLab? [[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 05:58, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
:I believe its either done via pump rings (enough screw pumps can hollow out sections of the ocean long enough to build something to hold the water back), or in a cold enough seasonal environment, only doing construction during the winter. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:44, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
:: The third option would be building the fort, and then making a lake around it. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 08:51, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Lever

2008-10-17T10:56:03Z

Bilkinson:

== floodgates vs. doors misinformation? ==
"''Therefore, it is more logical to use doors, at least until doors aren't usable for holding back water.''"

I'm fairly certain that doors can't be closed while flooded. They work as described for opening via lever, but cannot close when blocked by water or creatures.
Granted, the last time i've levered doors was back in 2d. Please verify or change the wording? --[[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 15:49, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

:In the current version{{version|0.27.176.38c}} doors can close if water currently occupies the same square. I believe elsewhere the wiki states this destroys the water, but I have not verified if the water is destroyed. --[[User:Quartic|quartic]] 16:18, 2 June 2008 (EDT)
::Does it matter how much water? -- [[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 13:35, 3 June 2008 (EDT)
:::I have verified this with water of depth 1 and 7, but not values in between.--[[User:Quartic|quartic]] 13:38, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

Todo: Check whether two levers connected to the same door operate it in the same way the older versions did - that is, pulling each lever once would open the door, then do nothing as the second lever is pulled. -- [[User:Zaratustra|Zaratustra]] 19:23, 7 November 2007 (EST)

I'm using vertical bars as portcullis for my keep, and they attach to levers. Perhaps a comment that bars and grates operate identically in this version, specifically with respect to levers? -Gotthard

== controlling at a distance ==

Does the lever need to be adjacent to the item it is controlling?

I want to put a floodgate at the end of a channel... [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:52, 23 January 2008 (EST)
:No, it can be anywhere.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 02:57, 23 January 2008 (EST)

so, analog to the support-cave-in-trap how about building a nice water basin, say 4x4 for a start and covering it with grates, all connected to a lever - do grates have to be attached to a wall or floor on one side? I will try *broad grin* --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:45, 22 February 2008 (EST)

:Grates must be attached to a wall on one side, although you can put grates next to only grates and the dwarves will build them. Followed by their collapse. Like walls off bridges.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 18:31, 2 March 2008 (EST)

:Try building supports under them. SL's hand of armok uses supports under hatches in a similar way. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:37, 2 March 2008 (EST)

::Yeah, its not working like i wanted it too. The support thing will probably work. Or I will just leave a few walls in the basin..will try that later, busy right now. *watches goblin fly away in high arc* --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 19:52, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Regarding remote activation/control: I just spent 10 minutes berating my dwarves for completely ignoring two Pull Lever commands while vile forces of darkness approached, only to find that once I removed the Dwarves Stay Indoors restriction, they happily stepped up to the, uh, lever. The bridges are outside, the levers are on the level below. Has anyone else experienced this? [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 17:49, 22 March 2008 (EST)

:Was the lever and/or any part of the path to the lever marked as "outside"? Use {{k|k}} to check. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:25, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::I checked and one of the levers was indeed marked "outside". In fact, there are several squares on my first underground level that are marked "outside". Is that because they are in the general area of the stairway leading outside? Thank you for the info. --[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 18:42, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

:::When I quit reading all new forum messages and stayed at the wiki, I thought this would stop. [[Outside|Read The Wiki]]. Really. Read it. No, really, click on that link. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 19:57, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

== Megabeasts ==

I have noticed that a bridge that a hydra is standing on cannot be retracted {{version|0.27.176.38c}}. Has anyone else had similar experiences? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:15, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

:Titans cause the same problem. I conjecture that bridged can't be retracted while megabeasts are standing on them. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:08, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

:Also elephants, it seems. Possibly creature size. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:18, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

:Dragons cause the same problem. Are megabeasts supposed to all show up at once like this? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:43, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

== Proposed addition: Mechanism sequence ==

Given the problems that arise when using non magma-safe materials for mechanisms on floodgates, it is quite handy to know which mechanisms go where at the link selection (When for example you're really low on bauxite). 
From my experimentation with floodgate-lever, the first mechanism selected goes at the gate and the second one at the lever. I still haven't activated the contraption, but I'm assuming it's going to be ok. 
I'm also assuming the same is usefull for grates and bars. --[[User:Nonickch]], unsigned

:There is some lower-down text that tells you which mechanism goes in where. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:30, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

== Finding Links ==

Is it possible to determine what a lever is linked to without pulling it and checking to see what happens? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 00:43, 6 September 2008 (EDT)
:AFAIK the only way is to attempt to link the lever to a built object and notice which one if any is not available.
:eg if you have two bridges but only one is available to be linked to, it is because you are already linked to the other one.
:This would be a really good feature if it was implemented.
:[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:55, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

:I guess this is one good use for the new note-feature: Just use the same note for lever and target. --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 10:17, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

== Max number of links? ==

''Is there a limit to the amount of objects that can be linked to a lever?''--[[User:Thendash|Thendash]] 22:56, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

== Speeding the job of linking ==

Is it just me or does it not only take forever to finish the job of linking the lever to something, but also the dwarves treat it as extremely low priority? I've sometimes had to had an entire year for one of them to deign to hook it up. Incidentally, it is the Mechanics job that they use for that, right? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 15:48, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

: I haven't noticed anything about the priority of the job, but yes, it take hella long to finish it. Some big linking job (eg. linking a large bridge to a remote lever) are virtually impossible to complete without an experienced mecanic... dwarves don't manage to end the job before feeling the urge to eat or drink or something, and all their work is lost when they return, ending in an infinite loop. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 19:47, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

: Unless it's changed in the year since I've played, the mechanic must move the mechanisms to the lever and the "something", then spend time working on both the lever and the "something", all without being interrupted. Consider a 1-square stockpile next to both the lever and the something and choosing those unique mechanisms when you assign the linkage job. -- [[User:Qwip|Qwip]] 16:42, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

:: The catch, so far, is figuring out the "unique" mechanisms in the list. Short of making sure that that stockpile is the only one that carries Schist Mechanisms or something similar... Unlike the other "pick an item" lists, you can't specify a sort and there's nothing zooming you to the item that you will use. On a mildly unrelated note, I realized that part of the reason for my delay was that I was building large amounts of stone traps, so the nearest mechanism that was not already tied up in a trap building job was quote some distance away. I had this problem with the nearby stockpile as well, as it was also fairly close to the traps. It would be nice to even get a distance count on the mechanisms. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:48, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:::When you choose the mechanism for the lever or trap, it does tell you its distance.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:::: Addendum to Maximus's comment: When selecting the material to be used, you can e{{k|x}}pand the list of materials, and then select a particular item. Therefore, you can build a single-tile stockpile, then customize it (using {{k|q}} then {{k|s}}settings) to only allow a certain quality mechanism. Link the lever after these stockpiles have been filled. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 16:21, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

== Inverting a Lever ==

I think I found a way to automatically invert the signal of a lever, say if you wanted one lever to open one door and close another. It involves a bridge and water, so it would not be instant. I haven't tested it yet. Anyone know if it would work?
<pre>Side view: (Sorry, I realize this isn't the standard tileset, but my text editor doesn't have them all.)
#####
#_~@W
##D##

W - Water source (Under at least 7/7 pressure)
D - Water drain
_ - Pressure plate, set to activate under water of depth 4-7
@ - Hinge of a raisable bridge, connected to the main lever (offscreen)
~ - Bridge over channel
# - Solid rock</pre>
When the main lever is OFF, the bridge is down. It allows water to flow past its hinge, and it covers the drain. Water fills the room, triggering the plate, which sends an ON signal. 
When the main lever is ON, the bridge raises. The hinge blocks water from flowing in, and the uncovered drain empties the room. The plate detriggers, sending OFF. 
WARNING: The drain must not fill! If it does, you wont be able to get into the room to connect more mechanisms to the plate.
Option: If your water source is infinite, make your drain a hallway, at least 3 long, with a raising bridge that comes down from the far end. When the main lever is activated, the hallway floods. Shortly afterwards, the plate detriggers. After a short delay, the bridge slams down, destroying the water. 
--17:52, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

: Isn't it simpler to build two levers? Especially considering the pressure plate takes as many mechanisms? I don't really understand what you are trying to accomplish here.
:--[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 17:34, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

::If you want a single action to do some "on" actions and some "off" actions - e.g. if from a stylistic point of view you want to have a single "activate outer defenses" lever that raises bridges over moats and puts down bridges blocking catapults.
::--[[User:Random832|Random832]] 19:35, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

::: It's more than stylistic. My designs are complex systems, created on the assumption that only certain combinations of states are possible - that when ''this'' bridge is down, ''that'' bridge is always up, and that when ''this'' floodgate is open, ''that'' door is always closed. If I allow things to enter a condition I hadn't planned for - either because I forgot to throw both leavers, or the dwarf died between them, or whatever - there is literally no telling what would happen. It could drop civilians into a line of fire, or flood the fortress, or expose the marksdwarves to the enemy without also releasing their infantry guards.
:::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 16:08, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:I'd say you should consult the [[Computing]] and [[Mechanical Logic]] pages then. Should find all the components you need there.
:--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 16:13, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

::Doesn't help. That's all about power transfer - gears, axels, waterwheels... It only uses levers for input, not output - I could connect my controll leaver to a not-gate like [[Mechanical_Logic#NOT_or_BUFFER|this one]], but how do i connect ''that'' to a bridge?
::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 17:17, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Connect that power to a screw pump, that pours water onto a pressure plate. There's an example of such a device on the mechanics page. Take a look as Water/Fluid logic as well (Linked to on the mechanical page) for some other pump-based devices.
:::--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 06:56, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Lever

2008-10-16T20:13:51Z

Bilkinson:

== floodgates vs. doors misinformation? ==
"''Therefore, it is more logical to use doors, at least until doors aren't usable for holding back water.''"

I'm fairly certain that doors can't be closed while flooded. They work as described for opening via lever, but cannot close when blocked by water or creatures.
Granted, the last time i've levered doors was back in 2d. Please verify or change the wording? --[[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 15:49, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

:In the current version{{version|0.27.176.38c}} doors can close if water currently occupies the same square. I believe elsewhere the wiki states this destroys the water, but I have not verified if the water is destroyed. --[[User:Quartic|quartic]] 16:18, 2 June 2008 (EDT)
::Does it matter how much water? -- [[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 13:35, 3 June 2008 (EDT)
:::I have verified this with water of depth 1 and 7, but not values in between.--[[User:Quartic|quartic]] 13:38, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

Todo: Check whether two levers connected to the same door operate it in the same way the older versions did - that is, pulling each lever once would open the door, then do nothing as the second lever is pulled. -- [[User:Zaratustra|Zaratustra]] 19:23, 7 November 2007 (EST)

I'm using vertical bars as portcullis for my keep, and they attach to levers. Perhaps a comment that bars and grates operate identically in this version, specifically with respect to levers? -Gotthard

== controlling at a distance ==

Does the lever need to be adjacent to the item it is controlling?

I want to put a floodgate at the end of a channel... [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:52, 23 January 2008 (EST)
:No, it can be anywhere.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 02:57, 23 January 2008 (EST)

so, analog to the support-cave-in-trap how about building a nice water basin, say 4x4 for a start and covering it with grates, all connected to a lever - do grates have to be attached to a wall or floor on one side? I will try *broad grin* --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:45, 22 February 2008 (EST)

:Grates must be attached to a wall on one side, although you can put grates next to only grates and the dwarves will build them. Followed by their collapse. Like walls off bridges.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 18:31, 2 March 2008 (EST)

:Try building supports under them. SL's hand of armok uses supports under hatches in a similar way. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:37, 2 March 2008 (EST)

::Yeah, its not working like i wanted it too. The support thing will probably work. Or I will just leave a few walls in the basin..will try that later, busy right now. *watches goblin fly away in high arc* --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 19:52, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Regarding remote activation/control: I just spent 10 minutes berating my dwarves for completely ignoring two Pull Lever commands while vile forces of darkness approached, only to find that once I removed the Dwarves Stay Indoors restriction, they happily stepped up to the, uh, lever. The bridges are outside, the levers are on the level below. Has anyone else experienced this? [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 17:49, 22 March 2008 (EST)

:Was the lever and/or any part of the path to the lever marked as "outside"? Use {{k|k}} to check. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:25, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::I checked and one of the levers was indeed marked "outside". In fact, there are several squares on my first underground level that are marked "outside". Is that because they are in the general area of the stairway leading outside? Thank you for the info. --[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 18:42, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

:::When I quit reading all new forum messages and stayed at the wiki, I thought this would stop. [[Outside|Read The Wiki]]. Really. Read it. No, really, click on that link. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 19:57, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

== Megabeasts ==

I have noticed that a bridge that a hydra is standing on cannot be retracted {{version|0.27.176.38c}}. Has anyone else had similar experiences? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:15, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

:Titans cause the same problem. I conjecture that bridged can't be retracted while megabeasts are standing on them. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:08, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

:Also elephants, it seems. Possibly creature size. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:18, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

:Dragons cause the same problem. Are megabeasts supposed to all show up at once like this? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:43, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

== Proposed addition: Mechanism sequence ==

Given the problems that arise when using non magma-safe materials for mechanisms on floodgates, it is quite handy to know which mechanisms go where at the link selection (When for example you're really low on bauxite). 
From my experimentation with floodgate-lever, the first mechanism selected goes at the gate and the second one at the lever. I still haven't activated the contraption, but I'm assuming it's going to be ok. 
I'm also assuming the same is usefull for grates and bars. --[[User:Nonickch]], unsigned

:There is some lower-down text that tells you which mechanism goes in where. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:30, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

== Finding Links ==

Is it possible to determine what a lever is linked to without pulling it and checking to see what happens? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 00:43, 6 September 2008 (EDT)
:AFAIK the only way is to attempt to link the lever to a built object and notice which one if any is not available.
:eg if you have two bridges but only one is available to be linked to, it is because you are already linked to the other one.
:This would be a really good feature if it was implemented.
:[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:55, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

:I guess this is one good use for the new note-feature: Just use the same note for lever and target. --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 10:17, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

== Max number of links? ==

''Is there a limit to the amount of objects that can be linked to a lever?''--[[User:Thendash|Thendash]] 22:56, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

== Speeding the job of linking ==

Is it just me or does it not only take forever to finish the job of linking the lever to something, but also the dwarves treat it as extremely low priority? I've sometimes had to had an entire year for one of them to deign to hook it up. Incidentally, it is the Mechanics job that they use for that, right? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 15:48, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

: I haven't noticed anything about the priority of the job, but yes, it take hella long to finish it. Some big linking job (eg. linking a large bridge to a remote lever) are virtually impossible to complete without an experienced mecanic... dwarves don't manage to end the job before feeling the urge to eat or drink or something, and all their work is lost when they return, ending in an infinite loop. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 19:47, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

: Unless it's changed in the year since I've played, the mechanic must move the mechanisms to the lever and the "something", then spend time working on both the lever and the "something", all without being interrupted. Consider a 1-square stockpile next to both the lever and the something and choosing those unique mechanisms when you assign the linkage job. -- [[User:Qwip|Qwip]] 16:42, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

:: The catch, so far, is figuring out the "unique" mechanisms in the list. Short of making sure that that stockpile is the only one that carries Schist Mechanisms or something similar... Unlike the other "pick an item" lists, you can't specify a sort and there's nothing zooming you to the item that you will use. On a mildly unrelated note, I realized that part of the reason for my delay was that I was building large amounts of stone traps, so the nearest mechanism that was not already tied up in a trap building job was quote some distance away. I had this problem with the nearby stockpile as well, as it was also fairly close to the traps. It would be nice to even get a distance count on the mechanisms. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:48, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:::When you choose the mechanism for the lever or trap, it does tell you its distance.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

== Inverting a Lever ==

I think I found a way to automatically invert the signal of a lever, say if you wanted one lever to open one door and close another. It involves a bridge and water, so it would not be instant. I haven't tested it yet. Anyone know if it would work?
<pre>Side view: (Sorry, I realize this isn't the standard tileset, but my text editor doesn't have them all.)
#####
#_~@W
##D##

W - Water source (Under at least 7/7 pressure)
D - Water drain
_ - Pressure plate, set to activate under water of depth 4-7
@ - Hinge of a raisable bridge, connected to the main lever (offscreen)
~ - Bridge over channel
# - Solid rock</pre>
When the main lever is OFF, the bridge is down. It allows water to flow past its hinge, and it covers the drain. Water fills the room, triggering the plate, which sends an ON signal. 
When the main lever is ON, the bridge raises. The hinge blocks water from flowing in, and the uncovered drain empties the room. The plate detriggers, sending OFF. 
WARNING: The drain must not fill! If it does, you wont be able to get into the room to connect more mechanisms to the plate.
Option: If your water source is infinite, make your drain a hallway, at least 3 long, with a raising bridge that comes down from the far end. When the main lever is activated, the hallway floods. Shortly afterwards, the plate detriggers. After a short delay, the bridge slams down, destroying the water. 
--17:52, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

: Isn't it simpler to build two levers? Especially considering the pressure plate takes as many mechanisms? I don't really understand what you are trying to accomplish here.
:--[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 17:34, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

::If you want a single action to do some "on" actions and some "off" actions - e.g. if from a stylistic point of view you want to have a single "activate outer defenses" lever that raises bridges over moats and puts down bridges blocking catapults.
::--[[User:Random832|Random832]] 19:35, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

::: It's more than stylistic. My designs are complex systems, created on the assumption that only certain combinations of states are possible - that when ''this'' bridge is down, ''that'' bridge is always up, and that when ''this'' floodgate is open, ''that'' door is always closed. If I allow things to enter a condition I hadn't planned for - either because I forgot to throw both leavers, or the dwarf died between them, or whatever - there is literally no telling what would happen. It could drop civilians into a line of fire, or flood the fortress, or expose the marksdwarves to the enemy without also releasing their infantry guards.
:::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 16:08, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I'd say you should consult the [[Computing]] and [[Mechanical Logic]] pages then. Should find all the components you need there.
:::--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 16:13, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Block

2008-10-14T20:36:50Z

Bilkinson:

Actually the values are off. the base value of wood is 1. But a piece of wood has a value multiplier of 3. And a block a multiplier of 5. Should I add this, this might confuse newbies. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 10:02, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:Raw value, shape modifier, resultant value? I think people can cope with that. --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 10:21, 5 November 2007 (EST)

Quote:
but the difference is purely in the value
My observations suggest that when marking economic stone as green, dwarves can build of it, but blocks are still ignored. Hellzon or irc said blocks can only be used to build buildings, wells and pumps. So that would make the above statement false. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 12:47, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:You can build walls and buildings out of blocks and stone (some buildings require blocks) but I don't think you can craft blocks. --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 15:19, 15 December 2007 (EST)

Quote:
This doesn't apply to blocks made out of metals.
Why is that? in my experience it's working just fine (golden blocks worth 150, copper blocks worth 10... just as they should)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:26, 4 February 2008 (EST)

== Naming ==

Does "block" ever occur in the singular in Dwarf Fortress? I think [[block]] should redirect to [[blocks]], rather than vice versa. --[[User:JT|JT]] 13:31, 8 November 2007 (EST)

:Seconded. You make rock blocks, metal blocks, wooden blocks and glass blocks. A bunch of blocks, a pile of blocks, you name it yourself. The game always call one unit of them as "blocks"--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:26, 4 February 2008 (EST)

::Rule N says that it should be called "Block," and is there really any actual problem with it? ''Not'' doing it, on the other hand, could confuse wiki-newbies. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:26, 4 February 2008 (EST)

== Construction ==

Does making a construction out of blocks instead of raw stone allow the construction to go faster? (I'm thinking along the lines that it's easier to work with bricks and mortar than raw stone and mortar) [[User:Fephisto|Fephisto]] 22:39, 26 March 2008 (EDT)
: i dont know, it should, you would think, but mabey the time makeing the blosk is greater than the time saved?

: As far as I can tell from experimentation, making constructions with blocks rather than raw stone simply increases the value of the architecture (which pleases dwarves and attracts immigrants). It is far slower, due to the additional time required to carve the blocks. [[User:Iituem|Iituem]] 11:43, 29 July 2008 (GMT)

::Well, yeah, it's slower ''that'' way - the question is, is it faster if you already have blocks? (i.e. have your mason turning out blocks while you've not yet thought of what constructions to have built; will it be faster to turn those into a construction?) [[User:Random832|Random832]] 14:04, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Well, since blocks can be stored in bins you can save a whole lot of hauling time when building with them. I don't think it speeds up the actual build though.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 16:36, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

== Ice blocks ==

Is it possible to make ice blocks? --[[User:Locolan|locolan]] 02:28, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Losing

2008-10-09T16:19:24Z

Bilkinson:

" if you dig a hole in a wall diagonally to a water source, water can come spurting out even without you receiving a warning about damp stone." Is this true anymore? The dev notes for today's version (November 1st) mentioned making squares touching water diagonally get the damp marker as well. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:51, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== 26 directions ==

26 directions? Really? I've been digging out tiles UNDER bodies of water trapped in rock, much less diagonal to them along the z-axis, and I haven't run into any flooding problems yet.--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:If you dig a tunnel underneath a body of water, you retain the ceiling overhead. If you were to remove this ceiling (e.g. by digging a ramp or stairway upwards) then the water would certainly flow.

::It would, except digging a ramp doesn't remove the ceiling...in fact it's impossible to dig upwards into water. You can't designate anything on the water tile above, and nothing you do below removes the ceiling...I tried in vain, and was sorely dissapointed. 'Specially since Toady did it one of his movies. Let me know if you get it to work, though. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:10, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:::You can currently ramp up into a water source and have it release the water down in version v0.27.169.33g. --[[User:Stravitch|Stravitch]] 16:39, 23 January 2008 (EST)

:::Build an upward (or an up/down) staircase on a level below and designate a downward staircase on the level above. Downward staircase is essentially a modification of the floor (ceiling) into a hole with stairs. Water doesn't flow in 16 up/down+horizontal directions (doesn't flow up+horizontal under pressure). Be warned that digging directly below a lake or a river is safe despite "dump stone" warning but digging into stone directly below an aquafier is NOT safe.--[[User:Another|Another]] 02:35, 4 December 2007 (EST)

:::Water flows in only 10 directions: the eight horizontal directions, straight up, and straight down. Someone should edit the article page.[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 12:08, 23 January 2008 (EST)
::::Done, but don't hesitate to edit pages if you see something wrong :) people can always reedit them if they disagree ;) --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 16:13, 23 January 2008 (EST)

== Losing is fun ==
What would you say to moving the article to [[fun]] and making this one a redirect? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:29, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:That would be so funny! Don't know if it would gel with the rules, though. --[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 19:53, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::Redirected fun to here. ;) --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:12, 6 November 2007 (EST)

== Starvation ==
According to the starvation section you can gather plants if you dont have soil to farm on, but as far as i know plants only grow above soil layers [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 08:57, 19 January 2008 (EST)

:If you make rock muddy, you can grow on top of it. [[User:Calculus|Calculus]] 15:16, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Dehydration ==
What's that about "an indoor basin or water tower" ? How do you do that? --[[User:Keesto|Keesto]] 15:17, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

== Old Age ==

Does anybody know if dwarves can die of old age? or do they all just keep living forever?
:According to the raws, dwarves have a lifespan of 160-200 years. So if you play for a ''really'' long time... --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 12:19, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Smelting

2008-09-18T00:18:46Z

Bilkinson:

How does the melt option for items work, If I set things to melt and pick melt and item for the smelter it just seems to ignore it and pick ones I haven't marked. But if it works like dump I have no idea how to set a zone for it. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 17:37, 4 November 2007 (EST)

:Really? mine only melts the items I checked, at least the last time I checked. (I hope). Perhaps it is a bug. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:11, 7 November 2007 (EST)

While on the topic of melting, the page should link to http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Melt_item somewhere. [[User:Skanky|Skanky]] 19:39, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

=== Multiple Bars ===

Anyone else notice that when you smelt a multiple bar ore you alwas get the copper in the case of galenga? Perhaps the same is true for tetrdite. At the moment it looks like you get only one bar, while you have a chance for to. At least in my experience. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:11, 7 November 2007 (EST)
:Perhaps you might be right. It does not say if you have a chance to get lead in the case of Galena, or if you have a chance to get copper with Tetrahedrite. It may be you always get these bars, and have a chance at a second bar. I will have to check but I didn't look too closely at the time that I did this.--[[User:Chthon|Chthon]] 12:05, 7 November 2007 (EST)

::Just confirmed it, the silver is the addition. The other ones are always generated. Just like the ores say ingame. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 15:18, 8 November 2007 (EST)

===Word Choice===
"Note that galena smelted alone often produces lead which is only used in producing lay pewter, a low quality ore"
Pewter != ore. I would have fixed it, but I'm not sure of the proper wording. [[User:Mephisto|Mephisto]] 09:40, 7 November 2007 (EST)

===Page disconnection===
Has anyone noticed that this page seems to have been disconnected from the rest of the wiki at this moment? If someone knows where I can find a link to it, I'd appreciate it. I only linked where I did because that was where the old wiki had this kind of information. --[[User:Chthon|Chthon]] 12:07, 7 November 2007 (EST)
:I added a few links here and there and put this in the guide category.--[[User:RaSchumann|RaSchumann]] 14:57, 22 November 2007 (EST)

===20% and 50%===
does this mean once i smelt 5 (or 2) of these bars i will get 1 of that bar or there is a 50/20% chance of getting that bar as well as the other one
:I'm curious about this too. It says smelting tetrahedrite has a 20% chance of silver and a 100% chance of copper. These numbers don't add up. What gives? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 17:31, 19 November 2007 (EST)
::I read it as smelting always produces a copper bar, and has a 20% chance of ''also'' producing a silver bar. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 20:18, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

===Added Tutorial===
I added a tutorial for smelting and I am adding links to here. --[[User:RaSchumann|RaSchumann]] 18:06, 18 November 2007 (EST)

== Pig Iron and Steel at a Normal Smelter ==

Due to some confusion over at the [[Steel]] page, I re-tested with a magma smelter and normal smelter. Both use the same amount of coke/charcoal. I've added a minor note to the table, and reworded about the magma smelter. [[User:Blackcat|Blackcat]] 07:33, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

40d:Forest

2008-09-16T12:55:30Z

Bilkinson:

'''Forests''' are areas with large amounts of densely packed [[Tree|trees]].
There are several types of both [[Tropical]] and [[Temperate]] forests. Forests in colder areas, such as [[taiga]] and [[tundra]], also exists. Forests typically have large amounts of [[plant]]s and tons of available [[wood]]. Diffirent kinds of [[creatures]] and [[vermin]]s also like to live in forest [[biome]]s.

{{World}}

[[Category:World]][[Category:Biomes]]

40d:Challenges

2008-09-15T19:00:32Z

Bilkinson: Cleaned up the page intro.

''Part of this article was originally taken from the DF forums thread [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001269 "Goal-Based Dwarf Fortress"].''

The general goal of [[Fortress Mode]] is to survive, acquire wealth, defend your wealth, and become the capital of your civilization. However, many players find that fighting off repeated [[siege|sieges]] and keeping their people alive just isn't enough anymore. They begin to experiment with different sets of objectives, themes, and restrictions in search of more [[fun]]. These are some goals to attempt or use as inspiration.

== ASPCA ==
* No [[animals]]

Don't bring any [[animals|pets]]. Furthermore, due to the possibility of animals being caught in them, don't build any [[traps]], either. If [[immigrants]] bring pets, get rid of the pets somehow. (If you're a particularly rabid ASPCA member, you could get rid of the pet-bearing immigrants, too, but that's probably excessive.)

== City-States ==
* No [[skill]]s
* 7 or multiple of 7 of everything you bring

At the start your dwarves split everything equally and move to 7 different locales that are not interconnected. They have to mine their own rooms, plant their own crops, use their own craft piles. This will probably require a bit of cross-fertilization until you get [[door]]s and can lock everyone in, but after that it is every dwarf for him/herself!

== Dieting Dwarves ==
'''Fishing village'''

Give your dwarves only the fishing skill and other fishing related skills (like bonecrafting.) Try to survive off a [[fish]] only diet. Flood the river and build houses above it so the dwarves can fish through their floors. There will be an extra challenge if the river freezes in the winter.

'''Carnivore'''

* No plants or seeds

Only eat strays, pets, and animals you trap and hunt. No farming or plant gathering. Keep all your pets in cages and care for them as little as possible. Eat your dwarves' pets first for an extra challenge. If this upsets your dwarves, ridicule or ignore them. (If you are particularly heartless, you could cage those dwarves as well because anyone that empathizes with animals doesn't deserve any rights either.)

'''Vegan'''

In essence, construct an [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Glade Elven Forest]: The [[Challenges#Hippy challenge|Hippy Challenge]].

'''IOGT/AA'''

* No alcohol

Quite possibly, this is the cruelest challenge that your dwarves can be given. Don't ever brew any alcohol. Build [[well]]s instead and watch your now teetotaller dwarves work slower and slower by the season.

== Hippy challenge ==

Peace, man. Don't harm any plants except those you plant yourself. Don't cut down any trees, and don't trade for logs with the filthy humans or dwarves who do. You can trade for plants with the elves, they understand your environmental code. Don't burn any coal, do you know what that does to the environment, man? Never cause any creature's death, so no military, and no lethal traps. You can use cage traps, and either tame the creatures you catch, or release them back into the wild, far from your fort.

For an extra challenge try this in an area with a goblin fort or cave.

== Diplomacy ==
* Six dwarves with only social [[skill]]s
* One skilled dwarf

Six courtiers of the king's court made some ill-advised remarks within earshot of the king, and as a result have been ordered to go found an outpost. They've hired you to make sure they survive. The six nobles only have social skills and refuse to do any work that is beneath them.

== Fort Geneva ==
* Build only nonlethal (cage) traps
* Sentient creatures ([[Goblins]], etc.) are to be considered prisoners of war and treated humanely
* Suggested provisions for prisoners: a bed, a personal cell, a commons area, aboveground exercise yard, and the clothes the creature was wearing when captured
* Inspiration: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions Geneva Conventions]

== Hermit ==
* No [[skill]]s
* One [[pick]] and no other supplies

A well known and popular challenge. Kill off the 6 starting dwarves and any [[immigrants]] as they arrive, and try to make a living for the last dwarf.

== Humanlike Fortress ==
Pretend you're a filthy above-ground dwelling humie.
* Build a town wall.
**Only hovels and farms outside the town walls.
*House your dwarves in small town homes
**5-10 dwarves per house (they had pretty big families back in the day)
**upstairs bedrooms, small dining room, maybe a single level basement.
*House your workshops according to profession, not conveinance.
*Build warehouses for stockpiles, and set guards outside them.
*Create a keep, with its own wall, barracks, treasury, etc.
*Create a market square.
*Create a main street from the town wall to the market square and/or keep. Well-paved blocks, statues and decorative shubbery are a must.
*No underground interconnections between different areas.
* BONUS: Make a fountain at least 3 Z squares high in the center of the keep, with a +statue+(or better) on top of it.
* BONUS: The fortress is built around a human town.
* BONUS: Town has an awesome inn operating in same building as the brewery. REGULAR parties there, or it isn't good enough!
* BONUS: All booze is kept within a town inn.
* BONUS: An above ground farm complete with crops and cows,mules,horses,etc.
* ÜBERBONUS : Make all of the fortress out of wood. And have a dragon attack it. Send us pictures!

== Hunting Party ==
* One marksman/ambusher
* Two camp servants (e.g. one cook/brewer/herbalist, one butcher/tanner/leatherworker/woodcutter)
* Four clients, all dabbling in marksman/ambusher but with primarily civilian skills.

No anvil, lots of hunting dogs ... and a haunted wood. (In a terrifying wood, you may find all the trees & plants are dead, severely reducing long-term prospects.)

== Immigration and customs enforcement ==
* One miner/mason/architect
* One woodcutter/carpenter/architect
* Five military dwarves

No anvil, lots of food, in a canyon - spend the first year building fortifications to interdict traffic. Immigrants can build a town around you, but your original dwarves remain dedicated to their mission.

== <insert material> Fort ==
'''Wooden'''

Start on any treeless map and make everything that you can out of wood. That means no underground forts, though you may destroy hills and such. You lose points for bringing wood at the start.

'''Glass'''

Construct an above-ground fortress made entirely out of glass. Bonus points for not using magma, constructing your fortress under water, or using [[clear glass]] exclusively. No stone may be used. Metal may only be used for creating stuff that cannot be made out of glass.

'''Soap'''

Cleanliness is next to godliness! Soap is in the form of bars, and so can be used as a building material just like any other type of bar. Show those elven traders just how much you despise their philosophies by building your trading outpost out of stuff derived from dead trees ''and'' dead animals. Too many cats? Build with cat tallow soap.

== Luddite ==
* No mechanics or [[mechanism]]s
* No [[machine]]s

[[Traps]] and moving [[bridge]]s are forbidden, water moved for [[farming]] must be accomplished by hand.

== Master Of One ==
* All starting dwarves can have one skill and one skill only
* No changes are allowed on any dwarf's labor screen
* All immigrants must stay with the profession(s) they arrive with
* All peasants must be activated into the military
Alternatively,
* All starting dwarves can have one skill and one skill only
* No changes are allowed on any dwarf's labor screen, except that hauling may be disabled. You may not enable hauling.
* All immigrants must stay with the profession(s) they arrive with, and only military that immigrates recruited may be military.

== Outcast ==
* No [[skill]]s
* One [[pick]] and no other supplies

Same as the hermit challenge, only with multiple hermits. Turn off immigrants or kill them. Turn away merchants. If they don't leave, kill them.

== The Mad Butcher ==
(this requires a tiny amount of editing to the raws) 
#Edit Dwarf Fortress\Raw\object\Creature_Domestic.txt. Remove the tag [BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD] from cats and dogs. 
#Start with a normal build except:
#*One dwarf should be a dedicated butcher/leather worker
#*buy minimal food
#*bring as many puppies or kittens as possible
#Drop all your puppies or kittens into cages or into animal pits as soon as possible. 
#Dig a shaft 10 or more Z-levels deep, mark the top an animal pit. 
#At the bottom of the shaft set up a butcher shop, a tanner shop, a bedroom, and some food and leather stockpiles. 
#Set it all up so that the mad butcher cannot escape. 
#As you need food, begin selecting animals to be dropped into your deep pit, next to the butcher. 
#See how long a single butcher, butchering splattered kittens, can keep your fortress fed! Cooking and farming are cheating... raw meat for everyone! 

== This. Is. SPARTAAAA! ==

At least 50% of your dwarves should be military 100% of the time, and train in spears, shield use and [[wrestling]]. All other dwarves are "helots" and shouldn't be given any skills – they can be pressed into the military during times of war, but given no equipment or at most a bare minimum of inferior weapons. Do not use crossbows or traps. Kill maimed dwarves.

You should refuse trade with caravans, instead attacking them if possible. Whenever a messenger appears, promptly enter aggressive negotiations and throw them down the well screaming; "THIS IS SPAARRTAAAAA...". You should forbid the use of gold and silver (and platinum, etc), the making of crafts, and the smoothing of walls or any other task that makes your fortress "beautiful."

You shouldn't create chainmail or plate armour. You should only brew wine.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparta#Society Read more about the real Sparta]

== Human "alliance" ==

Start a game centered on a human town. Build a wall around the town in stone, using a mine under the town. Do not take anything from the town, though the human guards will probably help with any sieges. For an extra challenge after finishing the wall, dig down to the [[aquifer]] and flood the town.

== Stealth ==

Create a hidden outpost close to a goblin lair. Impact the outside as minimally as possible - dig down right away, and deconstruct the wagon ASAP. No building outside or even going outside. Once your army is ready, launch a surprise attack.

== Temple ==

Designing a temple to Armok. Aesthetics count - the god will be very angry if there are no stained-glass windows and domed ceilings carved with frescoes. To gain more favor, make regular sacrifices and keep the fountains and rivers red with [[blood]].

== The great brewery ==

Disaster has struck the kingdom. A strangely glowing [[Fire|‼]]<nowiki></nowiki>peasant[[Fire|‼]] visited the greatest brewery of the empire, and as a result the whole thing exploded. No time for weeping — create its successor, a fort dedicated to alcohol production, and get the alcohol supplies flowing! Try to make the widest variety possible, and give or trade it to the dwarven [[caravan]] each year.

== Castle ==

Build a castle, greater than anything built by human, elf or dwarf. Note that this is highly time
consuming if you want it to be a good castle. There must be floor indoors, and no underground
constructions except for mining operations and cellars. For an even greater challenge, build
a gigantic tower in the middle, where the nobles stay.

== Wealth ==

The kingdom's coffers need lining, so hop to! Found a fort and start accumulating wealth as fast as possible. Attain as high a fortress value as possible, and make most of your wealth into coins for the vault. Try to beat your record for one year, two years, or five years.

== Assassination ==

Your group of seven has been chosen to assault a goblin fortress – and you're not getting any backup. Turn off immigration, and try to slay the goblin leader and escape without casualties. For extra challenge, bring no picks.

== Biodome ==

All material, seeds, food, tools, and dwarves must be in the fortress within one year. Then, seal up the entrance. Any new immigrants... well, they might be in trouble. Survive for as long as possible!

== Retirement resort ==

Build a dwarven paradise, free from labor. All peasant immigrants should be removed from every job, including hauling, and given a great place to live. Make sure to include fun activities and plenty of parties.

== Commune ==

All your dwarves have all labors enabled. Dwarves sleep only in barracks, and no dwarf, including administrators, can be assigned any personal rooms. If the nobles find this upsetting, don't hesitate to make the corridors run red with the [[blood]] of the bourgeoisie. Obviously, don't mint any coins either. (Dwarves can take turns with wood cutting and mining, since they can't have both at once.)

== No rocks! ==

The new king has decided rocks and metals can no longer be used in construction. He'll be overthrown shortly, but in the meantime construct your fortress using only wood.

Anything that can be made out of [[wood]], will be made only from wood. Doors, tables, chairs, floodgates, bridges, stairs, workshops, you name it. For even greater challenge, build it entirely above ground with wooden walls and floors.

== Underwater fortress ==

Encase your entire fortress in [[water]]! Your fortress should be watersealed, and surrounded by water against all [[wall]]s. Water should be covering the top of your fortress as well. 
You can achieve this by diverting a lots of water, or digging into a frozen lake. 
Bonus: Build all water-touching walls/roof in clear glass! 
Alternative: Use [[magma]] instead of water! 
Alternative: Build it in the [[Ocean]]

== Mountain audit/core sample ==

Start in a mountainous area and strip mine everything down, down, down to ground level. Stockpile everything, and calculate the mountain's composition. For kicks, try not excavating one tile on each z-level. You'll be left with one enormous core sample.

== Segregation ==

Make two separate, working, independent fortresses. All the men go in one, all the women in the other. Married dwarves are excluded from both.

== No singles ==

As soon as you get a married couple with an immigration wave, kill all single dwarves. Continue to do so with all immigration waves. Try to lose no children.

== Santa Claus ==

Get ten thousand toys built and offered to caravans yearly. Optionally, build ten thousand toys, fetch them in adventure mode and deliver them to every single city of the world.

== How high can you go? ==

Construction, construction, construction! Just how big a tower can you build? Out of glass maybe, clear glass? Steel? Pump water to the top? Make your tower a ''pinnacle'' of achievement and stun humans, elves and goblins alike - for they know nothing of construction and engineering like dwarves do!

== Computing ==

Can your dwarves build the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism Antikythera mechanism]? Can you program the fortress to play tic-tac-toe? More details at [[computing]].

== Doomsday Clock ==

Build a water or mechanical clock whose final state triggers the support which holds your fortress up or a megabeast out.
See how much wealth you can achieve before the clock runs out.

== Live up to your name ==

Go with the random name chosen by the game for your fortress and group. Make a handicap/play style based on your group's name, and a personal goal based on your fortress name. For example, if your group is The Iron Fist, your military must consist only of wrestlers in iron armor. If your fortress is Prisonportals, you must capture and jail as many goblins/creatures as possible, and all doors in the prison must be made of glass.

== Equaland ==

Equaland: where we are all Equal, besides the Almighty Leader. Each dwarf must have their own bedroom, dining room, etc. Make a large tower in the center of your perfect land and put "The Leader" in it. Then make some kind of mechanism to kill the dwarves inside their dwelling, complete with levers so that The Leader can choose who dies next. If dwarves have one too many friends kill them, if they eat too much food kill them, etc.

== World Domination ==

Pretend you are an evil mastermind. Now come up with some device or machine to render the world (or at least your portion of the map) totally unliveable, aside from, of course, your hidden lair.

Suggestions:
* Flood the map with water/magma (may require building walls around the edge of the map)
* Build an "Earthquake Machine" (the entire map is supported by a single support, which is connected to a lever)
* Build an extensive holding cell network for "scientific purposes". Fill it with megabeasts and elephants in secret. Have a lever that lets everything free to feed on the general population.


== Inuit Dwarfs ==

Live out on a glacier with no surrounding trees and just rely on the ice and your woolly underpants. Actually, you might want to get the full attire, it's going to be cold! 
BONUS: Make a giant tower completely out of ice with your dwarfs living in it. 
BONUS: Make everything out of ice.

== Government in Exile ==
All dwarves are either nobles, or in the military. The only useful dwarves you'll have will be your broker, manager, mayor, bookkeeper, and dungeon master. If you can survive until the sheriff arrives, transfer your entire military into the fortress guard. With a little luck, and a lot of exported roasts, you too can rule without proletarian interference.

== Stay Awhile, and Listen ==
Create a world with a lot of large caves and make it possible to see them on the embark map. Build a Fortress near a large cave with a lot of big angry monsters in it (hopefully not too close) and loot lying around that becomes a frontier town for adventurers seeking to clear out the nearby 'dungeon'. Train up dwarves to become parties of heroes who will descend into the dungeon for fame and fortune (or more likely severed limbs and death). Parties should only be about four or less. You can defend your fortress but luring monsters out into your siege engines is cheating. Give yourself points for large monsters killed and treasure claimed. 
BONUS: Only solo adventurers are allowed to enter the dungeon. 
BONUS: Only use 'Thieves' to steal loot and create traps inside the dungeon.

[[Category:Guides]]

40d Talk:Challenges

2008-09-15T15:42:19Z

Bilkinson:

40d Talk:Challenges

2008-09-15T15:40:55Z

Bilkinson: Agorophobia

==Colorful==
This is an idea I got by reading trough all the challenges, what if you make it a goal to have the fortress in the colour of the rainbow. (Example, 80x80 tile fortress, first 10 tiles are red, second 10 tiles are brown-orange, the third 10 are yellow and go on) --[[User:G1real|G1real]] 08:43, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

==Sparta==
"You shouldn't create chainmail or plate armour."
 why? --Savok
:because spartans don't wear chest armor. you should definately watch 300, it's like Dwarf Fortress on crack! --AlexFili
::from what I've read, 300 isn't an accurate depiction of Spartan life. However, this challenge build is based on 300 --Savok
:::Alright, fair point, 300 was based from a graphic novel, but many similarities between Spartans in 300 and in real history are present. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 10:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
::::"However, this challenge build is based on 300" No it isn't. At least, it wasn't intended to be. I guess I shouldn't have referred to pop culture when I added it. --juckto
:::::The hell with it. Split off spartans from 300. [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 16:55, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
::::::Not only did Spartans use chest armour (although in the form of bronze muscel cuirasses), but it was illegal and finable to fight without your armour. Theres one story of a Prince praying in Temple when some enemies attacked, he ran out naked and killed them, the Oligarchs awarded and praised him with one hand and then fined him with the other. Further specific Spartan attributes, the largely did not wear sandals except during war (don't want your feet to be soft and flabby, gotta make them rock-proof), Sparta itself didn't rely on walls (although they did use them [notably at the battle of the Hot Gates to keep the Persians from landing south of the gates] and the city did eventually make some). Theres also the complicated issue of their government, not sure how to replicate that, dual monarchy with the Kings having no real governmental powers and an oligarchy ruling at home. Maybe having a Legendary warrior lead each of two squads and having every position (Book Keeper, Mayor, Captain of the Guard even maybe) filled by a useless fat rich guy in a nice shiny house. I should also point out alot of their generals and kings were known for a love of gold and that 50% of the population being in the military is not very accurate, actual Spartan soldiers were vastly outnumbered by the Helots. --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
==No mining==
Now that you construct walls and fortifications out of wood, I wonder if anyone is going to take on a 'no mining' challenge? You're going to need a ''lot'' of wood! --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 17:00, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Some people already are :p --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:44, 6 November 2007 (EST)

==Assassination==
I tried "Assassination" the other day and found that it was incredibly easy with a group of axedwarves. Not only did I kill the hardest-to-get-at goblin, I killed every last other goblin too. In the end, there were only 2 dogs and 2 dwarves dead (the last one fell, sadly, to the last goblin left, who was hiding in the tunnels.--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 22:51, 15 December 2007 (EST)

:Now do it with 7 untrained dwarves with no armor. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 19:30, 29 December 2007 (EST)

== Humanlike? ==
It should be noted that the 'human-like fortress' as described is historically inaccurate. In particular, its either misrepresenting or confusing various details. One major point is that a _castle_ never incorporated a town. There are walled towns and there are castles, but these are entirely different things. A couple of historical periods/styles would lead to the following different suggestions:

(A) Larger (stone) medieval castles sometimes had industry in the bailey. This was often pressed up against the outer wall to save on space and wall building. It was usually militarily useful industry (ie, metalsmithing of various types). Cooking and possibly brewing might also happen, and cooking at least would have been handled in the keep itself. Industries including jewelry, carpentry (on a permanent basis), and other non-military production would have been outside the castle, quite possibly in a town nearby.

(B) More isolated smaller castles would have done necessary production in the bailey on a temporary basis (ie, erecting a carpentry work area when needed and disassembling it afterwards), with a few permanent industries (notably blacksmithing).

(C) 'Dark Ages' castles would be made of wood, and weren't large enough to accomodate much industry. Instead they would have imported everything. The early castle was a defensible home for the lord and his family, and would only house them and a few military retainers.

It should be noted that the lack of focus on industry in a castle meant diverse tasks might share the same workspace and in fact be handled by the same person. The purpose of a castle is military, not production, and castle's only produced goods for internal demand that either could not be imported, would be inconvenient to import, or were critical to the military purpose (and couldn't afford access to those goods being lost during a siege).

(D) A walled town would have no keep. Nobles would not live there. Basically, towns would build a wall around their perimeter for defense. More important towns often grew to encompass nearby castles, and often outgrew their walls - which might either lead to substantial portions beyond the walls or accruing walls occasionally to encompass new growth. Despite a castle potentially being encompassed by a town, the castle and town were administratively separate - towns receiving independent charters from the crown - and the town was never subject to the lord of the castle (who may well control the surrounding countryside).

Given the nature of Dwarf Fortress, treating it as a town rather than a castle is probably preferable unless you really want to emphasize military skills, which could be interesting. You could, of course, create a castle and a town, keeping them as virtually separate entities, with military dwarves and nobles living in the castle and other dwarves living in the town.

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 18:11, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

:When did we start trying to make DF fit real-world history?
:His idea seems perfectly fine when compared to in-game human towns/cities, as they have a keep and whatnot as part of the city. Only difference is adding a wall around it all. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:25, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

== Insane Renegade (just a thought) ==

Well I was thinking something along these lines,

They all think that your crazy, so you and some others ran. You shouldn't trust them... They want you dead. Except for the (random profession/job) they think like you. KILL THEM KILL ALL THAT OPPOSE YOU!!,

Description:
Xenophobia, Do not trade with others, Kill all immigrants except ones of a certain job/profession. If you want to go as a truly insane person, ban all statues and engravings of Dwarven faces (the statues, THE ROCKS! THEY ALL WANT ME DEAD!!!!) Be prepared for a long life of hatred and sieges.

~LrZeph~

P.S. if anyone edits this and puts it on the main thing please give me partial credit... Thank you and goodnight!

:How is this different from [[Challenges#Outcast|Outcast]], aside from the RP? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 16:41, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

:: Oh dear, i missed that one. never mind

~LrZeph~ 15:11 23 June 2008

== Dystopian society ==

Anyone thought of making a fortress based off one of those dystopian futures found in scifi novels like 1984, We, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451? The way I imagine it, it would be similar to the Equaland challenge, with variations based on the dystopian principle of your choice. For example, if you want to encourage uniformity across your population, enable all labor for every dwarf and persecute anyone who skills up too quickly at a given skill. A strict caste system might also be implementable, a la Brave New World. Another idea would be to kill off or at least "re-educate" any dwarf that falls below ecstatic for an extended period of time. Tons of ideas at {{wiki|Dystopia}}. Thoughts? --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 04:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

:That sounds like a good challenge. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:24, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

== Underwater Building ==

I've decided to take on the underwater building challenge, and have started Migrurmestthos, The Ocean-Citadel. But ah... I can't for the live of me figure out how I'm going to get glass blocks to the bottom of the ocean. Any ideas? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 20:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT) 
''P.S.: I've altered the creature tokens and set my Dwarves to Aquatic.''

:I recommend either
:#Don't build it in the ocean.
:#Use pumping to pump a large area of the top level of the ocean out. Do the same with a slightly smaller area one level down. Repeat as desired.
:#Pump the ocean out, build, then let it flow back in. This is like the above, but with the whole visible ocean. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:45, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Oookay, okay. I have single-handedly diverted the courses of raging rapids to give my children something to drink, harnessed the power of lava, and built towers of glass. However, I cannot help but approach the idea of pumping out '''the entire ocean''' with a bit of skepticism. Is this ''really'' possible? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 22:53, 21 July 2008 (EDT)

::::Aye, it is. Aside from waves, the "entire" ocean is really, due to map limitations, just a large, fast-refilling lake. If you build a ring of pumps properly, you should be able to clear the water from a section, which can be as large as your fortress map. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 02:34, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

::::: I've personally been using 'canals' in my fortress for quite a while, and what I do is simply allocate nobles' rooms along the side of the canal, and before flooding the waterway, I dig into it and build glass windows and blocks so the nobles can watch the fish swim by. I doubt it actually raises the room value by any more than the glass windows' base value, but I like the effect. This isn't really an "underwater city" per se, but it's born of the same concept. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 07:45, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

== Dwarf Factory ==

--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 18:12, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
Looking to develop this callenge concept:

Your fortress is a highly specialized industrial complex. Select one item, or very narrow category of items. (ie Flour, Scepters, Shoes, Silk Bags, Crossbow Bolts) This is your factory's product. You must produce as much of it as possible, and it may only be used for export to any any and all caravans which visit your factory. Set up shift schedules, assign massive teams of dwarves (or even all of them!) to your core product, and generally devote your fort to maximizing output.

Variants: 
Assembly line - Each Dwarf is assigned a single stage of the production cycle, this is their only labour. Workshops should be grouped togeather by type, ordered based on the production cycle and grouped with relevant stockpiles. 
Communal - Every Dwarf has every relevant labour enabled, in addition to whatever else they do for the fort. 
High Management - For each Task in your production, appoint a department head. As the number of workers in each department grows, start appointing shift managers. As your factory expands in size, appoint reigonal coordinators and quality control bureaus. Cap this off with a board of directors and a CEO. None of these dwarves do anything but fill noble slots and build social skills. 
Prison/Work Camp - Noble dwarves do not contribute to labour. Max the fortress/royal Guard at all times and draft 20% of the population into the army. The remaining dwarves are prisoners who must produce output. Build walls, rig traps, and make an example of anyone who fails to meet their quota. 
People's Glorious Five-Year Plan - As above, but arrive with no skilled workers, rig all facilities with self destructs and kill switches, and only arm one in ten of your soldiers. 

Bonus: Only produce things vital to the survival of your workers, or directly involved in making your product. Anything else must be imported. 
Further Bonus: Produce only your final product, all raw materials must be imported. spend the surplus on anything else you may need.

How's it sound?

== Luxurious Tomb ==

Build an extravagant mausoleum for your entire dwarf community. Make it multi-leveled, make it a pyramid, make it out of glass if you want - but it must serve no other purpose than to be a dying place, and must not be accessed for any purpose other than to build it. Add a few decorations here and there, statues, tables, and a whole lot of coffins to house everyone.

Once it's complete, turn your fortress into a ghost town. Remove the designation of all your stockpiles. Forbid all the workshops and forbid access to the different areas of the fort as they get deserted to limit dwarf movement. Lure everyone into the tomb, seal the entrance from the inside and watch everyone die inside their new mausoleum. The tomb should be designed such that the initial entry point cannot easily be guessed (i.e.: The entrance should be sealed using a wall or some other solid structure - not via a door you just mark forbidden.

BONUS: make access to the tomb difficult or impossible, either by causing a cave-in in the tunnel that leads towards it, or by flooding the surrounding area in water or magma.

BONUS #2: Build the tomb over a chasm. Find a way to drop the whole tomb-building into it once everyone's inside.

== Agorophobia ==

Your dwarves are absolutely terrified of the great outdoors, ([[carp|and]] [[Elephant|with]] [[Giant eagle|good]] [[undead|reason]] and want nothing more than to be nestled tightly in the "[[Giant Cave Spider|relative]] [[Pit|saftey]]" of the underground. Upon arrival, immediately burrow into the ground and haul all your supplies out of the sun's glare, and then never set foot on the surface again. Also, to help reduce anxiety, have no single chamber larger than 5x5, and let no hall stretch farther than 5 tiles between doors.

40d:Irrigation

2008-09-10T15:23:59Z

Bilkinson:

Irrigation is the process of making rocky ground suitable for [[farming]]. This is usually done by flooding it with [[water]]. Inside caves, [[rock]] cavern floor tiles that are covered with water instantly become muddy tiles, which you can then build farm plots on. There are many possible methods for getting the farm area muddy.

Dwarf Fortress uses realistic water dynamics, including measures of [[water depth]]. A depth of 7 is full, depths of 1 will evaporate, leaving the stone wet and thus suitable for farming. Your goal in irrigation is to get a section of ground to be 1/7s.

== Dryland farming: farming without irrigation ==

Some locations have layers of [[soil]] a few z-levels thick. It is not necessary to irrigate [[soil]] in order to grow crops on it; it is possible to build a farm plot directly on any soil tiles, although the dwarven crops such as [[plump helmet]]s can only be grown in a [[subterranean]] plot. In lowland areas, a farm plot built on any tile marked [[Outside]] can be used to grow outdoor crops such as [[prickle berry|prickle berries]]. This method obviates the need for irrigation entirely, so is recommended for newbies.

== Easy irrigation ==

# {{K|d}}ig from the [[farm plot]] to any source of water, but keep a single tile of [[wall]] between the newbuilt passage and the water.
# Dig a passage from the plot towards lower ground or a pit, to serve as a water drain ''(this stage is not 100% necessary, but means you don't have to worry about having too much water and so is recommended)''.
# Build a [[floodgate]], and three [[mechanism]]s.
# Place the floodgate in the passage. The idea is that it'll block the water from coming through when it's closed.
# Build a [[lever]] and link it to the floodgate.
# If you are building a drain, follow steps 3-5 again and place the second floodgate at the entrance to the drainage channel, linked to the second lever.
# {{K|P}}ull the first lever so the gate opens.
# Send a miner to dig that last wall keeping the water from rushing in.
#: Alternatively, have the miner dig a [[channel]] ({{K|d}},{{K|h}}) on that last wall from the Z-level above. This is much safer, since the miner will dig out the wall without actually having to stand in the way of the water.
# Use the first lever to close the channel once you've got enough water to spread over the area. If you have a drain, you can now let any excess drain off using your second lever.
# The water should now cover (or have covered) 1/7 of each tile.
# Wait for the water to evaporate and/or drain off (Dwarves can built farm plots in 1/7 water, so you don't need to wait).
# Enjoy your newly irrigated land.

== Reservoir irrigation ==

The reservoir method involves building a small reservoir between two [[floodgate|floodgates]] and a farming chamber about 7 times as large as the reservoir. A reservoir of 12 tiles, for instance, can water a 70 tile chamber effectively. Water is let into the reservoir by lowering, then raising one floodgate. The other floodgate then releases the water into the farming chamber. It spreads around, then evaporates after becoming 1 deep.

The reservoir may be built above the plot to be irrigated with a [[hatch]] or bridge in the floor, to one side using floodgates, or below and [[pump]]ed upwards. Note that [[Bridge|bridges]], in their default state, will block water from falling between levels. The large surface area you can get this way can make the water spread over your farm area much faster than by using floodgates.

It is possible to achieve the same result using a natural pond as the water reservoir. Doing so is easier in the short term but it is not advised if you want to keep replenishing your reservoir for other uses, such as [[well]](s), for natural ponds have a very finite amount of water available. On particular maps, natural ponds can replenish themselves at the beginning of each spring.

=== Worked Example ===

To create this irrigation system, you need: [[Image:Tree_farm.png|right]] 

* A large growing room.
:*The large room can be any size. (For this example, we will use a 24 by 24 size room.)
* An adjacent smaller filling room that will be filled with exactly the right amount of water.
:*To calculate the size of this room, see below.
* A water supply line such as a tube leading to a water source.
* Lever-controlled doors or floodgates connecting the large room to the smaller one, and the smaller one to the water supply. Doors are preferred as you don't need levers for your dwarf to pass.

'''Calculating Room Size'''

There are 576 (24²) floor tiles in the large room (L). The small room (S) must hold enough water to cover the large room, the small room, and the space occupied by the door in between with 1 unit of water. Each tile of the small room can hold 7 units of water, so:

S = (L + S + 1) / 7

-or-

S = (L + 1) / 6

577/6 = 96 1/6; rounding up, this gives 97. This is the number of floor tiles in the smaller room: a 9X10 room with 7 extra tiles. Be aware, however, that if you make your "large" room ''too'' large, some of the water from the "small" room will [[evaporate]] before reaching the other end, and you will not have enough [[water]] to coat the floor. This behavior was observed in a room of 42X35 tiles.

Now, get digging. The water supply connects to the smaller filling room by a 1-tile hole where a door or [[floodgate]] will go. The filling room connects to the growing room the same way, and the growing room needs a door too. Remember to have the [[door|doors]] in place before breaching the water source and flooding the water supply line!

When you do breach the water source, immediately forbid the first door your miner runs through (see, this is why we use doors), which should be the door closest to the water source. Don't bother forbidding the other two. Link all three doors to three separate [[lever|levers]] and test the system. Close the door between the filling chamber and main farm area and open the door that leads to the water source. When the filling chamber is full, close the door to the water source, close the door leading to the farm, and open the door between the [[farm]] and filling chamber. The water should spread out and coat the entire farm in a thin layer of water. At this time, plant your farms and begin the wait until they yield products.

== Pond irrigation ==

Dig a farm room, and dig a channel one Z-level above it, creating a hole down into the farm room. Create a [[zone]] on the hole, and make it a pond. Your dwarves will attempt to fill it with water carried in buckets. As they dump water in, it will muddy the farm room floor. After it has been sufficiently muddied, disable or remove the pond zone until you need to irrigate it again. Dwarves can build farm plots in 1 unit deep water.

NOTE: Even though it works, this is probably the slowest way to irrigate a room since dwarves only carry 1 unit of water per trip. Especially if you don't have a more than one or two idle dwarves and buckets, or if the water source is far away. It also probably wouldn't work very well on larger farm areas.

NOTE: Digging a channel from the surface will mark the tile below Outside. This means that cave plants will not grow there.

== Pump Irrigation ==

If you have access to wood, stone floors can be irrigated conveniently from a water source on the level below, by use of a screw pump. Simply dig a channel to access the water on z-1, install a [[Screw Pump]] and set to Start Pump Manually ({{k|Enter}}). Any dwarf with the 'Pump Operating' duty active will quickly pump enough water to irrigate a large area (so rapidly that irrigating other rooms becomes a concern!). This can be improved by installing a second pump to draw water out of the room, allowing you to rapidly drain the room in the event of over-filling.

== Wave irrigation ==

Although seawater is unfit for carrying to your farm in a bucket, areas muddied by seawater seem to be farmable. My favorite method of achieving this is building a farm room under a beach and making a hole in its roof, closable with a hatch, to let waves in.

[[Category:Agriculture]]

40d Talk:Stocks

2008-09-08T13:04:48Z

Bilkinson:

The captured creatures page indicates that I can disarm captured goblins by locating narrow gear that's being worn on the stocks page and marking it for dumping. How do I determine what's being worn, though? None of the color coding or bracketing symbols seem to indicate this. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 01:05, 18 May 2008 (EDT)

:A second on this question. Is this possible? To see what's currently in use by the dwarves? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 18:48, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

::Use the "go to object" command or whatever that one that goes to the object. If it goes to a cage with a goblin in it, you know you've got the right equipment. However, if you process your equipment quickly, all narrow stuff should apply. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:45, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Hm. I was hoping there was an easier way. My furnace operators can melt down (narrow iron chain mail) only so fast. I guess I'll stick to throwing them in the execution chamber as practice for my marksdwarves. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 09:07, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

I tried to use the stocks menu to control the type of stone my mason uses, by forbidding everything except a flux. Somehow that seems to lock up the mason into No Job, even though there's plenty of that type of stone lying all over the place and what's more, nothing I do can ever get that mason to do anything ever again except eat, sleep, and drink. [[User:Drawf irons|Drawf irons]] 23:10, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

:Did you remember to set your flux stone to be non-economic? They won't use if it they think it's still reserved for steel production. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 09:04, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Stocks

2008-09-08T13:04:35Z

Bilkinson:

The captured creatures page indicates that I can disarm captured goblins by locating narrow gear that's being worn on the stocks page and marking it for dumping. How do I determine what's being worn, though? None of the color coding or bracketing symbols seem to indicate this. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 01:05, 18 May 2008 (EDT)

:A second on this question. Is this possible? To see what's currently in use by the dwarves? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 18:48, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

::Use the "go to object" command or whatever that one that goes to the object. If it goes to a cage with a goblin in it, you know you've got the right equipment. However, if you process your equipment quickly, all narrow stuff should apply. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:45, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Hm. I was hoping there was an easier way. My furnace operators can melt down (narrow iron chain mail) only so fast. I guess I'll stick to throwing them in the execution chamber as practice for my marksdwarves. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 09:07, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

I tried to use the stocks menu to control the type of stone my mason uses, by forbidding everything except a flux. Somehow that seems to lock up the mason into No Job, even though there's plenty of that type of stone lying all over the place and what's more, nothing I do can ever get that mason to do anything ever again except eat, sleep, and drink. [[User:Drawf irons|Drawf irons]] 23:10, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

Did you remember to set your flux stone to be non-economic? They won't use if it they think it's still reserved for steel production. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 09:04, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Container

2008-09-05T18:18:34Z

Bilkinson:

==Changes from the old version of the Wiki==
1.This new page seems to be about two different things, 'containers' as they refer to bins and barrels (in the casual usage), and 'container' as the game uses (chests and so on.) Note that the [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Containers old wiki] devoted this page exclusively to the latter, to help people understand what was meant when a noble requested a container or when they saw containers on their stocks menu. That hasn't changed, has it? Maybe barrels, bins, etc should be excluded from this page. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 16:17, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

2.Is there still the bug where decorated barrels and bags are unusable? Please confirm.

3.Does anybody know if goblins will still stuff dwarven children into bags? That was always hilarious. Especially watching the bag-children grow up into bag-adults. --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 15:30, 9 November 2007 (EST)

4.What is a "stationary container" mentioned under Bags? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 18:05, 18 November 2007 (EST)

in reply to 3.Yer the gobbos will stuff dwarf kids into bags, tho I think the kids get outta the bags when the gobbo goes down ;). "he/she is depressed at being confined." --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 06:33, 6 February 2008 (EST)
:In reply to 2, I have several decorated barrels and bags in use. Gem-encrusted masterwork bags being used to hold wild strawberry seed... go figure. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:05, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

==Compulsive seed storage in bags==
How do you reserve bags for sand-hauling? If any empty bags sit in the glass furnaces for even a brief time a food hauler comes by and puts a seed into it, making it unusable for sand collection. I guess I could have no food haulers, but then food spoils quite quickly in the kitchens. [[User:Julius|Julius]]

:Keep a set of bags away from dwarves who are hauling seeds. Dwarves will use bags to carry (and hold) seeds, but only if the bags are along the route they're taking to store the seeds. Although it might seem like it at first, they aren't actually combing your fortress looking for bags to put one seed in. I put a bag-only stockpile along the little circuit between my sand and my glass furnaces (which is far away from any source of seeds), and have no problems.--[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 11:31, 19 January 2008 (EST)

::Tell that to the dwarves who, immediately after I followed your suggestion, ran up four flights of stairs PAST my seed stockpile to steal the empty bag next to the glass furnace. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 20:10, 20 January 2008 (EST)

Will dwarves store seeds in bags built as chests in other dwarves' rooms? Rather, if you build a bag as a chest in a dwarf's room, will other dwarves store seeds in it? If its owner stores seeds in it, will other dwarves eat them? --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 14:44, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

==leather bags==
i think there's a problem with using these for some tasks, like gathering sand, cos i had a bunch sitting in the workshop (no they werent tasked to be hauled)... anyone else confirm/deny this? [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 20:43, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

*you have a ''valid'' i-zone marked for sand collecting? (one that is placed over a tile that reads "X Sand" (not a wall) and has something other than a zero at 'sand collection (X)'?
*you have a dwarf with ''glassmaking'' enabled?
*you queued the task at a glass furnace?
*possibly bags sitting in the/a workshop might be ignored; they have to be on a furniture pile --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 09:54, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

== chest vs coffer ==

how much difference in value is there between getting a mason to make a coffer out of a gold nugget and a metalsmith to make a chest from gold metal?

Any time I'm letting a mason near native aluminium or native platinum he's usually quite skilled - so far my metalsmiths are outstripping supply of metal bars very quickly so they are still only as skilled as they were when they migrated.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:22, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

:Check the page for [[value]]. It looks like ore has the same value as the metal. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 02:08, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

== Store your bloody items! ==

My nobles and legendary whatever keep claiming random items and leave them where they lay. Supposedly it might be a problem my dwarves have the same cabinets and coffers since they might have the same room. Anything else I need to know to make my dwarves take care of their bloody belongings? Makes it difficult to place and build things. --[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 13:15, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
:Indeed, my Tax Collector has about a dozen stone earrings on the floor of her room, but won't put any of them in the two gabbro coffers in her room. Am I missing something? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:32, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
:On that note, do cabinets and coffers have a capacity, or are they wardrobes of holding? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 10:13, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

== Emptying bags ==

Is there any way to essentially say "move the contents onto the floor or into another container"? As mentioned in an answer above, I have some containers which got decorated and would be worth a great deal in trade, but are currently holding food supplies. I suppose I could just sell the containers with their contents, but that seems somewhat inelegant. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:07, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:Have you tried marking the contents for dumping? I think I've used that to empty things out before. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 14:18, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Power

2008-09-03T14:42:12Z

Bilkinson:

==Power Applications==

So, the most obvious and well-known purpose for power is to power Screw Pumps for a small variety of uses. Aside from the mathematical tinkering, is there any other use for power? Are there any other planned functions or structures that will use power? --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 23:08, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

You can use it to run millstones, which are a more efficient way of processing millable plants that a Quern. Other than that and pumping, there's nothing else power does right now.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 10:42, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Challenges

2008-08-28T22:12:55Z

Bilkinson: Dwarf Factory