Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Community Portal

2008-03-11T20:22:01Z

Bobson: /* Wealth page... */ Sig

Use this discussion page to talk about any issues or ideas you have about the direction of this wiki. The community portal is a hub for directing our conciousness. Read the rules carefully, take them to heart, post here if you have any questions or you think the rules can be improved.

==Account Problems==
I can't log in, but it says my username is already in use. --[[User:64.22.68.4|64.22.68.4]] 14:55, 29 October 2007 (EDT) (Peristarkawan)
:Are you sure? The new wiki cleaned out all the old accounts so you have to reregister. --[[User:Hamelin|Hamelin]] 15:02, 29 October 2007 (EDT)
::Unfortunately, I was unable to import all the user accounts, please recreate. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:22, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

==AdBlock==
Could you move all the files in the graphics directory with the word "ad" in it? For those using AdBlock or similar add-ons it will block the display of the graphics in those directories. Thanks!!! :) [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 10:26, 5 November 2007 (EST)
:It doesn't look possible - re-uploading the file keeps putting it in the 'ad' folder and I cannot edit the link in the DB as it is stored inside a BLOB. I suggest you whitelist this site anyways, it's not like you need to block anything here (and blocking /*ad*/ may cause problems elsewhere too). --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 10:49, 5 November 2007 (EST)

== Rule discussion ==

Z is pretty horrible, but not much point taking it out unless its to replace it with something better. (This whole setup is horrible, but that's irrelevant?) --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 21:23, 16 February 2008 (EST)

=== A ===

How do we handle several rules that starts with the same character? I see that '''titles''' have been moved to '''page titles''' because of '''timelessness'''. But what about other scenarios that doesnt have an solution as easy? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 07:51, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:We can handle them as they come up. In general, I think it's better practice to avoid reusing letters than to have to rename an existing rule.

:If we want to just do away with rule '''A''' at this point, that would be fine. It was only meant to be a starting point for brainstorming, and the rules haven't changed much lately. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:21, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::I Call for Judgment on this statement, this would remove the backbone rule used to define this alphabetical set of rules. We could put it outside of the rules though, like a description. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 12:24, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:::Unless we have another rule that must start with A, why not keep it? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:28, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:::I like rule A, it introduces the page, please keep it --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 16:32, 13 November 2007 (EST)

=== B and E ===

How are B and E ''rules''? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:27, 7 November 2007 (EST)

:Rules? I thought the alphabet was the guide for the war against entropy [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:34, 7 November 2007 (EST)

::Well, the Alphabet rule does describe them as rules. But I don't really think that B and E seem out of place. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:37, 7 November 2007 (EST)

:They will simply be replaced by "real" rules once someone have made them. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 14:23, 7 November 2007 (EST)

:I think of them more as "guidelines" ;) [[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:22, 7 November 2007 (EST)

:I put strikes through B and E and wrote more helpful ones (along the same lines) --Me
:Gravitas was a silly word. What do you think of the new rules? --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]

===Serious Rules===
Would it be possible for us to come up with some *real* rules that are more ... serious? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 08:59, 10 December 2007 (EST)

:The alphabet rules concept is senseless. Maybe remove the fluff? --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 11:09, 10 December 2007 (EST)

::Hey now, with a couple of exceptions, the rules are serious. The point of the alphabet framework wasn't random silliness; it was to inspire creativity and make rule-writing fun. It's hard to come up with good rules out of thin air. It's easier to think up a topic of concern that starts with a particular letter and then write a rule about it.

::Of course, the rules have been pretty stable for a while now, so rule A hasn't been too useful lately. There was a brief discussion a while back about dropping rule A under [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community Portal#Rule discussion]], and everybody seemed to want to keep it at the time. If you want to reopen that discussion, then I'm okay with either keeping it or dropping it (besides which, I haven't been too active around here lately anyway). --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:54, 10 December 2007 (EST)

:::I support the Alphabet ruleset, I don't see why it should change. It's clean and clear. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 16:56, 10 December 2007 (EST)

::::It's childish, incomplete, unprofessional and silly. The rules are not grouped logically and there is no table of contents. There's not room for clarification or expounding and little opportunity to expand. It should be scrapped for something that makes sense. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 03:25, 12 December 2007 (EST)

:::::It would be trivial to change it from an unordered list to use section headings, which would allow a table of contents and plenty of room for clarification. I don't think "little opportunity to expand" is valid; there's no reason we can't have multiple rules for the same letter, or rules that fall outside the alphabet rubric entirely.

:::::If you want to improve the organization, then just go for it. Let me suggest that you create the new version on a subpage at first, so that others can view two presentations side by side when discussing it. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:06, 12 December 2007 (EST)

:::::While I agree with some of your points, I'd like to say that this is not a "professional" wiki and silliness in general is a good thing. This is a wiki (Internet!) about a game (Haha!) that is pretty silly itself. If you want to create a Whole Complex and Indexed Body of Rules About Everything, go for it and as [[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] said, editors should be able to choose between the two. I just don't see the need. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 14:47, 12 December 2007 (EST)

::::What's the current system for banning people? [[Special:Contributions/Billdauterive|Like this jackass here.]] --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 12:46, 12 December 2007 (EST)

== Enforcing consistency in screenshots? ==

Can I strongly suggest that all screenshots be taken with the default interface and tileset, for consistency's sake? It seems to me like that would be a good way of keeping the wiki aesthetics constant. [[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 11:33, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:We can make it a rule, but we shouldn't remove any screenshots for non-conformance (except to replace them with conforming screenshots). --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:46, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::Yeah, for some tutorials that are written while the user is playing, it would be impossible to anyway. [[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 11:47, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:::I agree that images should use the default tileset for articles, but I disagree for personal pages or bloodline games. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]

::::The rule as written already exempts bloodline games. The only rule that should apply to personal pages is '''D'''. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:05, 5 November 2007 (EST)

Um, I added the rule before noticing the discussion here. Anyway, I added rule '''I''', inspired by the old [[Water wheel]] image ([[:Image:PerpetualMotion.JPG]]), which was incomprehesible to me and unnecessarily large. Like Peristarkawan said, the exemption of user pages is implied, but feel free to make it explicit if you want. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 16:13, 5 November 2007 (EST)

How about this?

[[Image:World_creation_screen2.png | none | frame | 400px | World creation screenshot.]]

It's clean, neat and doesn't warp the page. :) The obvious drawback is file size is not monitored. Can't we edit the file upload settings to measure pixels? Nothing over 800x600? [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 19:16, 7 November 2007 (EST)

== Redirects and article titles ==

How do you do that thing that makes a certain term redirect to a different page? Like [[Elephants]] redirecting to [[Elephant]], for example. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:20, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:If [[Elephants]] already exists, you can move the page to [[Elephant]], and it will create the redirect for you. Otherwise, just edit [[Elephants]] to read: <nowiki>#REDIRECT [[Elephant]]</nowiki> --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 15:26, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

::I see, thanks! --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:27, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:::Just FYI, if at all possible, ''do not create pages as plurals''. Use the following syntax: <nowiki>[[Elephant]]s</nowiki>: example [[Elephant]]s. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:20, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

What about titles that are verbs? Should they be in "base-form"? Or whatever its called (my english on this level isnt the best). Example: should the title be '''Mine''' or '''Mining'''? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 17:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:Based on the Wikipedia style, titles should be nouns. So in your example it should be the gerund '''Mining''', and '''Mine''' would be the title for an article about mines. I've updated the rule to reflect this. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 17:35, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::What about skills and professions? Should we have a '''Bone carving''' (labor preference) article and a '''Bone carver''' (skill) article, or would this be redundant? I've seen both styles linked to, but tend to think that the -ing form should redirect to the -er form. Opinions? --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 03:11, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:::Sounds good to me. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 11:21, 5 November 2007 (EST)

Btw, shouldnt all these comments be moved into [[DwarfFortressWiki talk:Community Portal|talk]]? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 17:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:Moved the account problem comments to the talk page. The rest are informative. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:26, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== Tutorials ==

New players are getting bogged down by the complexity at the start of their fortresses, I think we should get some "getting started" or "surviving your first winter" type tutorials up as soon as possible. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:33, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:[[Getting started]] will be just that. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:31, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

== Categories ==

I saw that the category [[:category:buildings]] had been added to category [[:category:world]]. I started to look for categories without parents and adding them to world to sortof have a list of every category. Is this good thinking? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:19, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:We already have a list of all categories at [[Special:Categories]], although it does include a few categories that aren't directly related to the game.
:Based upon the description of [[:Category:World]], it seems to me that most of the things that are currently in it don't really belong there. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 19:27, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::Ok, Ill remove them from [[:category:world]]. But how often is [[Special:Categories]] updated? I dont see [[:category:furnaces]] in there. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 20:24, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:::[[Special:Categories]] is automatically updated by the Wiki software as soon as it detects a change. However, MediaWikis aggressively cache pages. It's also possible you're looking a client-side cached page of it. Finally, I don't see any content in that category so it's possible it's being ignored. See [[Special:Unusedcategories]] instead. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

== Deletion ==

We now have a [[:category:deletion]], who has the power to delete pages? When are they deleted? Who make the final call? The same person that deletes them? What rules should we make regarding this? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 11:57, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Anyone can mark a page for deletion using the <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> tag, however it is usually recommended to get a consensus that it's not worth keeping. Exceptions are things like spam or empty pages. The <nowiki>{{del}}</nowiki> tag just lets the admin know to delete it, ultimately it's his call to do so or not. Just ask around on the talk page first, if no one disagrees, add the tag. (Disclaimer: that's how it worked on the old wiki, the policy may change as this new wiki grows.) --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:02, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== Water level style ==

I think we should have a standard style for talking about water level. We could say it various ways, such as "6/7 water," "water with a depth of 6," "a depth of 6 pool," or "water with a depth of six." It seems using the numeral makes it clear that we mean water depth, without adding the /7. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:02, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:I'm not sure. The /7 is definately unnessessary and that we should use 6 instead of six, maybe create a template to make the numberal blue/red (water/magma)? If not "Water 6" and "Magma 5" seem short, simple, correct, and understandable.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 03:27, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

::Like {{Raw Tile|6|#44F|#009}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F44|#900}} or {{Raw Tile|6|#00F|#000}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F00|#000}}? --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 05:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:::Too hard to read against the normal white background I think. But just the coloured number on its own would stand out weirdly. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 06:10, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:::: {{Raw Tile|6|#00F|#FFF}} / {{Raw Tile|6|#F00|#FFF}} or not even going so far as to use the tile template? --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 06:16, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:I think "depth of 7" works wonders, bold, colored text had a bit high contrast according to my taste. In case there is either magma or water, just state it. And we should also link to a waterdepth article for those that are in need of furher explanation of the concept. Example; "a water wheel needs to be placed in flowing [[water]] with a [[water depth|depth]] of at least 3". --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 07:44, 5 November 2007 (EST)

== Templates? ==

Is there a page with a list of all the templates available to us? Are all of the templates migrated from the old wiki? --[[User:Felix the Cat|Felix the Cat]] 00:51, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:You can find a list at [[Special:Allpages?namespace=10]]. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 01:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

== Forum references ==

Where there is a bit saying "Toady said this", what is the best way to link to the forum? Currently in magma, I've got a link to http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001504 which shows up as [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001504] (not ''too'' bad). Is there a better way of doing it akin to Wikipedia with <ref>something</ref>? Maybe something like [[Template:version]] for future (but that doesn't cover the "this is how it works now" type thing. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 02:17, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

: IIRC the <ref> system on Wikipedia requires an extension to be installed. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 17:48, 7 November 2007 (EST)

== Crops categories ==

My wiki-fu is weak, but surely there is a better way to present the myriad crops than having a different category for each season and biome? [[:Category:Crops]] could at least show the seasons grouped seperate from the biomes. Are we going to put each plant in its respective biome and seasons, ''and'' in [[:Category:Crops]], or is [[List of crops]] sufficient? Just seems like there's a lot of potential for a mess here, and we need to standardize the plant pages and various categories.

Personally I like the way the old wiki did it, with some nice templates. Granted there are a lot more plants in this version, but not so much that we need 20 subcategories cluttering up the crops category. See [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Crops Crops] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Plump_Helmets Plump Helmets]; easy to tell what crops belong in what season. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:52, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

== Wealth page... ==

I've been looking for tips on building fortress wealth, and haven't really been able to find anything. Can someone who knows something about it start a [[Wealth]] page? I know that mining out areas, making things, and artifacts contribute to wealth, but that's all I know. How much does mining a square contribute? Are there other ways to build wealth? Do mined out areas have to be populated, or can I go mine away a random hill and have it count? What are the best things to make to increase value? Do items have to be placed, or just made? and so on... --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 16:22, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Community Portal

2008-03-11T20:21:51Z

Bobson: Wealth page...

40d Talk:Elf

2008-02-27T22:23:28Z

Bobson: /* Elven warnings */

I have successfuly traded them Silk items in 0.27.169.32a--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 00:01, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

:Thanks for testing it, I removed the verify tag. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:43, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I have to wonder why elves wouldn't accept anything made out of wood, when all they want to trade me is animals in wooden cages, and alcohol in wooden barrels and bows and bolts made out of wood...you know what, almost everything they wanted to trade me was made from wood... --[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 01:32, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

:It's because the elves ask nicely when they take wood from a tree. Dwarves go out and TAKE IT!--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 14:38, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I accidentally tried to trade a wooden bucket with them. The elves scolded me, but still allowed me to trade my stone mugs and scepters. They don't leave straight away anymore.{{Verify}} --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 01:44, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:Ah, I'm glad they're more forgiving now. Fixed. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:14, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::They may rather be bugged now. There is a bug report that offering them something they don't like will make their mood maximally happy. --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 14:14, 19 November 2007 (EST)

:::Elfs are stupid. I traded some stone crafts for some of their wooden cages, and then i tryed to trade those same wooden cages back and they get angry at me for killing trees! [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 12:09, 1 December 2007 (EST)
== Fortress in Elf Territory ==

I set one up for fun, and so far (1st winter) there's been no effect. The weirdest part is the large number of named trees; I've avoided cutting them down, and the elves haven't bothered me. I've had hunters chase and kill deer right in their midst with no ill effect as well -- it remains to be seen what happens if he misses the deer and hits an elf, though. Will report back when I find something interesting. [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:53, 12 November 2007 (EST)

==Pissed-off the elves...==
They seem to be kinda wussy, considering that I confiscated all of their trade caravan's goods (3k in rope reed cloth of various colors and a little bit of alcohol and seeds) and I expected a siege (my fort is in a boring area, and losing is fun) but they won't attack me. I took their junk a season or two ago. When and how will they attack? --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 19:22, 27 November 2007 (EST)

:Elves are wusses now. It's not even known if non-evil races still siege, much less treehugging wusses like elves. -[[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 01:09, 28 November 2007 (EST)

==Elves bringing corpses==
The elves usually bring an animal or two in cages to trade, but many times that bring cages full of corpses... It's either all alive, or all corpses. Maybe the animals died in transit? Anybody else have this happen to them?--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 22:11, 25 December 2007 (EST)

: "It's not dead, it's resting". Er, the humans do this to me too. Pretty sure it's on the known bug list. [[User:Acama|Acama]] 02:17, 30 December 2007 (EST)

:I'm rather certain that if you're in a climate that you can die from exposure, that this is what happens. Have you gotten a shipment of live animals and a shipment of dead ones while at the same site? If not, then this is almost certainly the case. If so, it's possibly a function of a random number and perhaps the extremeness of the climate. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:11, 30 December 2007 (EST)

::I seem to recall it being stated that this was due to the caravan passing THROUGH climates where you can die of exposure on the way to your fortress. If the path a civ needs to take runs through freezing or scorching climates, the elves don't give the animals proper temperature care and they die. In contrast, the elves seem to make it through just fine--who knows, maybe the code is slightly different for caravan entities and separate creatures that happen to be carried along with the caravan. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:03, 10 January 2008 (EST)

:I actually prefer this method. I like to trap stuff myself so it makes the cages much cheaper, and the corpse can still be butchered for meat, bones, fat, and skulls. Your butcher will grab the entire cage and take it to the butcher's shop to empty it. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 11:20, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Elves and Animals ==

Doing some testing with using Elves in fortress mode, it seems that they will NOT be attacked by animals. Do you think we might go as far as to write in this page that [NATURAL]creatures will not attack elves? [[User:Zonk|Zonk]] 11:57, 9 January 2008 (EST)

== Elven warnings ==

The elves just warned me about cutting too many trees... I didn't realize that was still in. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 17:23, 27 February 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Elf

2008-02-27T22:23:17Z

Bobson: Elven warnings

40d Talk:Count

2008-01-11T19:04:31Z

Bobson: New page: I got a baron, then five immigrants later in the same wave, he became a count. I also happened to save right beforehand. I'll play with it a bit, figure out exactly where the promotion h...

I got a baron, then five immigrants later in the same wave, he became a count. I also happened to save right beforehand. I'll play with it a bit, figure out exactly where the promotion happens, and what changes to cause it. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 14:04, 11 January 2008 (EST)

Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Community Portal

2008-01-09T14:55:49Z

Bobson: /* We are doing this! Let us do it right. */ Added a W. Surprised no one used it for "Wiki" before this.

This page is for organizing the war effort against entropy.

== We are doing this! Let us do it right. ==

* '''A'''lphabet: OK, the first rule is that there must be a rule for each letter of the alphabet. Now only 6 rules to go. (Inspired by [[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]]'s [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic nomic] instincts)

* '''B'''lood line games: Any game, or story, relating to a [[:Category:Bloodline Games|bloodline games]]. (succession) game should use the special Bloodline:article_name namespace. This has been especially created for all you bloodline fans to scribble onwards without tying up articles in the main namespace.

* '''C'''ategories: When editing a page, stop to think about what categories it should be included in, and add them if necessary. Don't forget to consider categories that don't yet exist.

* '''D'''iscussion: Use the discussion page to voice suggestions and to ask questions. Try to limit inline comments. Before editing, check the discussion page to see if there are any changes being planned.

* '''E'''dit If you see a mistake, be it a fact or a typo, change it. Don't leave it to someone else to clean up mistakes. Be bold, feel free to make changes. If you think an article needs a major rewrite, you can use your personal page or the discussion (talk) page to post edits or suggestions.

* '''F'''acts: Keep your information factual. If you haven't confirmed something, post it on the discussion page. Do not create one-liner pages without links (unless its a stub). Add as much pertinent information as you can and avoid conjecture (possibly, maybe, could be, likely) by providing concrete examples from the game or links to other parts of the wiki.

* '''G'''old. Always mine it, never let it leave your sight, sing songs about it whenever possible.

* '''H'''eadings: Organize the content of each page into sections of related information. After the introduction, use appropriate headings for each section, and follow the '''N'''aming style of this guide. Keep headings to a minimum, consider a list or a table if you have many repetitive facts.

* '''I'''mages: Images and screenshots should use the default [[tilesets]] for clarity. Small diagrams should be constructed with [[Template:RT]], for easy editing, and to save on space. Exceptions are pages ''about'' tilesets and story pages like [[:Category:Bloodline Games|bloodline games]]. Images should always be in .png format. When uploading images, give them a name that is descriptive and unlikely to be duplicated. Names like "1", "screenshot", and "untitled" should be avoided.

* '''J'''ealousy: Don't be shocked if someone rewrites or removes your article, your hard work is not lost. Post up suggestions on the discussion page and talk about the issue. All versions are stored in the history, so theres always the chance your material can be reused or merged with existing content.

* '''K'''eys: Special to this wiki; Key commands from the game should be written using the [[:Template:K|k]] or [[:Template:Key|key]] templates. For example, the syntax <code><nowiki>{{k|q}}</nowiki></code> will generate {{k|q}}, a standardized and visually pleasing representation of the "q" key.

* '''L'''osing: is FUN! If something made you lose, include information about it. Others may want to try it out, or you may help someone avoid flooding their masterpiece fortress.

* '''M'''ore: More people should use the raw files (found in your 'install dir\raw\objects') to get information about creatures and objects. It has loads of good information, that the game actually uses.

* '''N'''aming: The titles of new pages should be singular nouns, with only the first word capitalized. Example: [[Screw pump]], [[Metalsmith's forge]], [[Gear assembly]]. The exceptions to these rules are for terms that are always plural and for proper nouns. Getting the wrong naming means extra redirects. Screw pump is ''not the same'' as Screw Pump.

* '''O''': ?

* '''P'''review: Use the preview button to check for typos. Avoid cluttering the history of a page with multiple edits. Mark small changes as 'minor' so they can be (optionally) hidden from the recent changes page.

* '''Q'''ueue: Check the special pages for work still to be done! There are lists of [[Special:Deadendpages|Dead end pages]]. [[Special:Uncategorizedcategories|Uncategorized categories]], [[Special:DoubleRedirects|Double redirects]], [[Special:BrokenRedirects|Broken redirects]], and [[Special:Specialpages|others]] that all need work occasionally. If you feel more like writing content than maintaining the wiki, the list of [[:Category:Stub|stub pages]] is a good place for you to start, followed by the [[Special:ShortPages|short pages]] that exist.

* '''R'''edundancy: Before creating a new page, do a search to find out if the topic is already discussed in detail somewhere else. If you find that redundant pages already exist, merge their content and have one redirect to the other.

* '''S'''tyle: In general, try to follow the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style Wikipedia Manual of Style] when writing articles. For example, introduce keyword articles by highlighting the first keyword in bold, such as '''Rules'''.

* '''T'''imelessness: The wiki is intended as a guide for all players, even new ones. As such, references to differences from or similarities to old versions of DF should be reduced and eliminated, except on pages specifically dealing with said differences or similarities. Avoid phrases like "now marble can be used to make steel" or "before, farms required two floodgates", etc. For facts that are likely to change, or placeholder features, use [[Template:Version]]. For example, you might say, "[[Cave-in]]s are buggy right now{{version|0.27.169.33a}}" using the version template: <code><nowiki>{{version|0.27.169.33a}}</nowiki></code>.

* '''U'''ser pages: Introduce your self, let the community know who you are. If you have a comment on someone's actions on the wiki, praise or otherwise, post it on their talk page (and they'll get notified next time they login). However, keep this place civilized; avoid flamewars, personal attacks and insults.

* '''V'''erify: Its a new version of the game and many loosely based assumptions are floating around. Verify your information and be sure to check [[:Category:Articles_needing_further_verification]].

* '''W'''ikis are designed for contributing to, as well as looking up information. If the article is unclear, or missing information, or just needs a rewrite, jump right in! There's handy edit links everywhere - click one and edit away! The more people who contribute, the more accurate and informative the wiki gets.

* '''X''': ?

* '''Y''': ?

* '''Z''': ?

== Notice Templates ==
There are templates available for marking pages needing improvement. Ideally, you should make appropriate changes and move on, but if you are unable to access the required information, post a notice to flag an issue up. Using template notices provides a consistent way of flagging a page. Notices in use can be tracked through category pages. Notices based on rules from this page should all use the [[:Category:Pages that break Community Portal rules]] category.

=== Template for Notice Templates ===
{{Colored Notice Box|#0000FF|Contents of the message.
Second value is sidebar colour in HTML hex, RR GG BB, e.g. #FF0000 (red), #009900 (dark green), #0088FF, (light blue), #000000 (black)}}
<nowiki>{{Colored Notice Box|#FF00FF|Contents of the message}}</nowiki>

=== Image Rules Notice ===
{{Image Rules Notice}}
<nowiki>{{Image Rules Notice}}</nowiki>

=== New Notices ===
If several pages arise that break the same rule, create a new template based off one of the above templates. Remember to include the [[:Category:Pages that break Community Portal rules]] tag at the bottom, or some other appropriate category so that other users can track pages that need reworking. To create a new template, type <nowiki>[[Template:Rule name notice]]</nowiki> into an article, or directly into the address bar of your browser.

40d:Bronze

2008-01-07T16:21:47Z

Bobson: I'm pretty sure the logic of the last sentace was backwards.

{{Alloy|name=Bronze|color=#880|bgcolor=#800|color1=#880|color2=#CCC
|uses=
* [[weapon|Melee Weapons]]
* [[Crossbow]]s
* [[Bolt]]s
* [[Pick]]s
* [[Armor]]
* [[Anvil]]s
|recipe=
* 1 [[Copper]] [[bar]] or [[ore]]
* 1 [[Tin]] [[bar]] or [[ore]]
|properties=
* [[Armor|Block]]% 75
* [[Damage]]% 75
* [[Material value]] 5}}
[[category:metals]]

[[Bronze]] is a manufactured [[metal]] that does not occur naturally. Bronze bars can be used to make reasonable weapons and armor that are 75% effective compared to [[iron]]. Bronze can also be used to make furniture and ''other objects'' at a [[metalsmith's forge]].

Bronze cannot be smelted from a single [[ore]]; it must be smelted at a [[smelter]] using following recipe:

*[[Tin]] + [[Copper]]

Bronze has a [[value]] of 5 and uses the same ingredients as [[fine pewter]] (which also has a value of 5). If you find yourself short of [[tin]], use this metal to make your objects of art instead of using fine pewter.

Seige

2007-12-06T19:41:46Z

Bobson: Common misspelling

#redirect [[Siege]]

40d Talk:Trade depot

2007-12-06T14:14:29Z

Bobson: /* Offering loads of the same item */

How exactly does the "trader requested at depot" toggle work? Which way is enabled, which way is disabled? And what does it do, even?

Edit: I got to trade with the dwarves by leaving it toggled as "r: Trader requested at depot". It took a litle while for the trade to show up. Anybody figured this out, though?

Edit: Yes, you want to leave it so it's showing the state you want - in this case "Trader requested" not "No trader needed", just like with any other toggled setting. An explanation of what it does is already provided below.

--

Toggling 'Trader Requested at Depot' will queue a job for your trader (designated under [N]obles) to show up at the trade depot. You can check the status of that dwarf at the Trade Depot (it will show their current job in light blue). If you are impatient, you can set the depot to [b] anyone can trade, in which case a dwarf with no job will trade.

I would recommend using a trader with high skill (I believe it is negociation and appraisal) to trade for you, as this will maximise your returns. --Alc 01:11, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

--

I added some more info, please refine as needed. It could use some better detail or a step-by-step path to build and operate a trade depot. [[User:Haddaway|Haddaway]] 20:02, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

== Verification question ==

Given different social skills for the broker, what are the number of allowed failed attempts at trading? --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 01:21, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:I've been doing some experiments on trading. I've got a skilled broker (Adept Appraiser, Competent Negotiator/Persuader, (no adjective) Intimidator/Comedian/Judge of Intent). After pumping the traders up to ecstatic, I attempted to annoy them into leaving by repeatedly offering moderately high value traders with 0 profit margin. It took forever, as he kept talking the traders into accepting the deals (the traders don't seem to be bothered any by deals with negative profit margin), which I assume boosted their mood a little bit. After dozens of proposed deals of varying success he did eventually manage to get them down to the second lowest mood level, and even once they reached the angriest level before they leave, it took 5 rejects in a row (plus a couple more rejects interspersed with successful trades) to get them to leave. Then I reloaded and tried again with a completely unskilled broker. Starting at ecstatic, the traders got angry enough to leave after 5 failed trades from the unskilled broker. I don't know exactly how fast the traders' mood dropped, since of course the unskilled broker couldn't tell me how angry they were. Since that was starting with the traders already ecstatic from successful trades, I would think starting with 3 bad deals in a row with an unskilled broker would be enough to risk the traders leaving. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 13:16, 5 November 2007 (EST)

== -X level depots ==

Has anyone checked what caravans will/will not go up or down? You can check your access with D but I find that both stairs and ramps still flash red, suggesting a caravan cannot go underground, even if the depot shows up as light-blue Accessible. --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 20:16, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

:I've watched wagons move across outside terrain level changes, and out there hills (ramps) flash as red, but the area on the other side (have to change zdepth) flashes green.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 02:14, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:Ramps are fine, but remember that walls will block adjacent tiles, as do trees and such: it's possible that the top of your ramp (closer to your depot) was blocked, which would cause the whole ramp to appear blocked. Thus, you need a ramp at least three tiles wide to let them through. I've had no trouble getting them to go up a very steep ramp as long as it had sufficient width and the bottom and top was clear.

:Note, of course, that stairs will always block wagons. Wagons don't have legs. =) --[[User:JT|JT]] 14:55, 8 November 2007 (EST)

== Trading with elves ==

Exactly what kind of things will elves accept? Obviously no wood items, but what about things like charcoal, pig tail clothing, etc? [[User:Xaque|Xaque]] 22:19, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

:See [[Elf]]. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:36, 5 November 2007 (EST)

== Edited dwarves section ==

I removed the bit about dwarf caravans giving you unlimited attempts to trade, because I had the initial dwarf caravan give me three counteroffers. After trying to tweak the third one and hitting trade, the caravan merchant responded with something like "Your childish games have made me tired. Perhaps next time when I return, you'll be ready to do business." And then proceeded to pack up their stuff and leave.

My trade rep had Novice Liar, Novice Negotiator, Novice Appraisal and Novice Intimidator. And, despite failing on all four trade attempts, he picked up Dabbling skill in Flatterer, Persuader, Judge of Intent, and Comedian. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 03:18, 4 November 2007 (EST)

== Entry Location ==

Any rhyme or reason to where the humans, dwarves and elves all enter? For instance, if you nestle your fort in the furthest reaches of a valley that heads through the mountains to the main continent to the east, do they enter from the west side of your map? Or is it entirely random?

:I had the humans enter from the east, and I built a road west. Next year, they entered from the southeast and left to the west, and I built a road east. The following year, they entered along my western road. It's possible they show up randomly until they know you have a road for them, and then they follow that road every subsequent year. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 23:21, 22 November 2007 (EST)

==Offering loads of the same item==

i noticed that when i offered one of the caravans a huge profit, they wouldnt accept (they got fed up and left pretty soon)... i think this is for either of two reasons: i offered them too many of the same thing - about 3 or 4 barrels of stone crafts, or i offered too many low cost things for only a few high cost things... needs verification as i dont have a screenie though [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 08:57, 5 December 2007 (EST)
:I consistently stuff caravans with the same cheap stone crafts for their goods... It might be an issue with offering too many at one time - I usually do trades of 500-2000 in value at a time, as many as it takes to get everything I want. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 09:14, 6 December 2007 (EST)

40d Talk:Captain of the guard

2007-12-06T14:11:39Z

Bobson: New page: Is it just me, or can this dwarf not be assigned a room once the economy starts (and thus cannot satisfy his "Quarters" requirement)? --~~~~

Is it just me, or can this dwarf not be assigned a room once the economy starts (and thus cannot satisfy his "Quarters" requirement)? --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 09:11, 6 December 2007 (EST)

40d Talk:Bin

2007-12-05T19:48:10Z

Bobson: New page: How many bars does it take to make a bin? Does it depend on what kind of metal? I've gotten canceled messages for "Can't find 2 iron bars" or "can't find 3 platinum bars"...

How many bars does it take to make a bin? Does it depend on what kind of metal? I've gotten canceled messages for "Can't find 2 iron bars" or "can't find 3 platinum bars"...

40d Talk:Trade depot

2007-11-23T04:21:49Z

Bobson: /* Entry Location */

40d:Trade depot

2007-11-23T04:19:37Z

Bobson: /* Humans */

Building a trade depot will allow you the opportunity to trade with caravans that arrive at your fortress. Trade depots require three blocks or logs to build, and the [[architecture]] skill along with either masonry or carpentry.

Each of the three friendly races will send a caravan once per year, however they will not arrive unless your region is marked as accessible by them. Dwarves will always arrive regardless of location, however. Since trading caravans arrive from the direction of their civilization, it is currently preferable to build the depot as close to the middle of the map as possible if the civilizations are in different directions. This reduces the chance of the caravan traveling across the whole map then turning around because it is time to leave.

A [[broker]] is not required but is preferable for getting better deals. To toggle whether anyone can trade or just the broker is done with {{K|b}}.
{{K|r}}equesting a trader at the trade depot will queue a job on the traders list. A higher level of brokerage will give you greater returns, so if you're dependent on trade it's recommended to keep one dwarf as broker and level up his appraisal skill as high as possible.

As of version v0.27.169.33b some users have reported a bug with the Trade Depot in which trade caravans are able to enter your fortress and trade at the depot as usual, but when it is time to leave their pathing fails and they go berserk, eventually dying. Some view this as a good thing because you get all their stuff for free, but it also prevents word of your fortress from spreading to other civilizations, so you do not recieve any immigrants, or you recieve far fewer than normal. Currently it is speculated that if there is level ground on one of the borders of your map equal in Z-level to your depot but not accesable from your depot, they may try to exit there and only there and go berserk trying.

== Trader Mood ==

If your trader has Novice or better [[Judge of Intent]] skill, there will be a line added below the traders' dialogue describing the traders' attitude. Their attitude rises with successful trades (especially if they get lots of profit) and falls when you propose deals they don't like.

* (trader) seems ecstatic with the trading
* (trader) seems very happy about the trading
* (trader) seems pleased with the trading
* (trader) seems willing to trade (Default, at least for humans)
* (trader) seems to be rapidly losing patience
* (trader) is not going to take much more of this
* (trader) is unwilling to trade

Happy merchants seem more likely to take your deals, although the exact mechanics of trader happiness and negotiation are unknown. If the traders reach the lowest level (unwilling to trade) as a result of repeated failed deals, they will immediately pack up and no further trade will be possible. Since traders who are annoyed with you are more likely to reject deals, you should tread cautiously in initial negotiations; the more times you fail to make a deal, the less happy they'll be and the less inclined they'll be to accept further deals. Skilled negotiators seem to be more likely to get traders to accept offers that include little or no profit for them, and less likely to offend traders with unsuccessful deals.

== Dwarves ==

The merchant will meet with your liaison and discuss what you would like to buy next year, as well as suggest things to sell. You may buy from the dwarves pretty much anything you could have brought with you during setup, except for pets.

== Humans ==

[[Human]] wagons pulled by regular mules will arrive if there is a path from your fort to a map edge that they can fit through. The wagons take up 3 spaces in width, so if your path ever narrows to 2-wide or narrower, the wagons will avoid it. You do not need to have an actual road, but you will need to {{K|d}}esignate {{K|s}}moothing and {{K|t}}ree-cutting to clear the path. Use {{K|D}} to verify that there is a wagon accessible path to the depot.

Often, on maps that don't have cliffs (and so usually have ramps between the z-levels), a path will exist with no effort required.

However, if the wagons don't have a easy route to your trade depot, they may not arrive in time for you to trade - the merchants are perfectly capable of packing their belongings and going away, before they even unpack.

== Elves ==

''For more detailed information, see [[Elf]].''

Elves bring you wood and plant items, as well as caged tame pets. Elves do not condone trading anything that has been created using a living creature, which includes trees, bones, skulls and shells.

Clothing that might otherwise be acceptable to Elves will be rejected it if it has [[Blood|blood]] on it, for example from a slain enemy.

[[Category:Trade]][[Category:Economy]]

40d:Lignite

2007-11-21T20:24:11Z

Bobson: Clearer wording

{{Stone|name=Lignite|tile=*|color=#888
|uses =
* 2 [[coke]] at [[smelter]]
|location =
* [[Sedimentary layer]]s
* Found as veins
|properties =
* Can [[ignite]]
* [[Economic stone]]
* [[Material value]] 1}}

One of the two mineral sources of [[Fuel|fuel]]. Produces 2 coke for each unit of coal processed at the [[Smelter|smelter]]. However, this processing consumes a unit of [[Fuel|fuel]]. This leaves a net gain of 1 [[Fuel|fuel]].

[[Category:Stone]]
[[Category:Economic Stone]]
[[Category:Sedimentary Stone Layers]]

40d:Stone

2007-11-20T17:52:47Z

Bobson: /* Other Stone */ Colors!

'''Stone''' or '''rock''' is a naturally occuring solid aggregate of minerals. It sometimes [[stone management|leaves behind]] material after being mined or [[cave in|collapsing]]. Other types of [[Mining|minable]] tiles include [[soil]] and [[sand]].

Stone is divided into three key categories:
* [[Metal ore]]: stone that produces [[metal]] [[bar]]s when [[Smelter|smelted]]
* [[Gem|Rough gem]]s
* [[Economic stone]]: [[coal]] and stone that is used as a [[flux]], or has other desirable features
* Other stone: stone that is only used for items and structures and has no special features other than color

== Layers ==
There are four types of stone layers. The type of layer is the primary indicator of what kind of [[ore]] you will find on the map, as well as a sign of [[volcano|volcanic]] activity.
The types are [[sedimentary layer]]s, [[igneous intrusive layer]]s, [[igneous extrusive layer]]s, and [[metamorphic layer]]s.
You will also find layers of [[soil]], but these rarely contain much ore.

The primary types of rocks only occur in their own layers. You won't find [[limestone]] in a [[marble]] layer.

== Stone occuring as layers ==

{| border = 1 cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5" -valign="top"
|-
! style="background:#efefef;" | [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]
! style="background:#efefef;" | [[Igneous intrusive layer|Igneous intrusive]]
! style="background:#efefef;" | [[Igneous extrusive layer|Igneous extrusive]]
! style="background:#efefef;" | [[Metamorphic layer|Metamorphic]]
|-valign="top"
|style="padding: 0"|
* {{Raw Tile|#|#880|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#880|#000}} [[Sandstone]]
* {{Raw Tile|%|#880|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#880|#000}} [[Siltstone]]
* {{Raw Tile|≈|#880|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#880|#000}} [[Mudstone]]
* {{Raw Tile|.|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#888|#000}} [[Shale]]
* {{Raw Tile|,|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#888|#000}} [[Claystone]]
* {{Raw Tile|#|#FFF|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}} [[Rock salt]]
* {{Raw Tile|▓|#FFF|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}} [[Limestone]]
* {{Raw Tile|∞|#880|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#880|#000}} [[Conglomerate]]
* {{Raw Tile|`|#FFF|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}} [[Dolomite]]
* {{Raw Tile|▓|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#888|#000}} [[Flint]]
* {{Raw Tile|=|#880|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#880|#000}} [[Chert]]
* {{Raw Tile|░|#FFF|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}} [[Chalk]]

|style="padding: 0"|
* {{Raw Tile|▓|#CCC|#000}} {{Raw Tile|●|#CCC|#000}} [[Granite]]
* {{Raw Tile|░|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#888|#000}} [[Diorite]]
* {{Raw Tile|▒|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#888|#000}} [[Gabbro]]

|style="padding: 0"|
* {{Raw Tile|,|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#888|#000}} [[Rhyolite]]
* {{Raw Tile|#|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#888|#000}} [[Basalt]]
* {{Raw Tile|∞|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#888|#000}} [[Andesite]]
* {{Raw Tile|.|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#CCC|#000}} [[Felsite]]
* {{Raw Tile|▒|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#888|#000}} [[Obsidian]]

|style="padding: 0"|
* {{Raw Tile|-|#FFF|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}} [[Quartzite]]
* {{Raw Tile|%|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#888|#000}} [[Slate]]
* {{Raw Tile|-|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#CCC|#000}} [[Phyllite]]
* {{Raw Tile|`|#880|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#880|#000}} [[Schist]]
* {{Raw Tile|=|#FFF|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#CCC|#000}} [[Gneiss]]
* {{Raw Tile|▓|#FFF|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}} [[Marble]]
|}

== Other Stone ==
Stone found on this table will occur inside their respective stone layers. When your miners encounter one of them, the game will pause and you will recieve an announcement; even for the ones that have no use other than to build constructions of unusual colors.

Non-layer stone occurs in these forms:

* Large cluster - An oval that occupies nearly half of a 48x48 block, area-wise. Only one appears per block
* Vein - A sinuous line of the material crosses the block
* Small cluster - A sprinkle of 5 to 10 adjacent tiles. Multiple small clusters of different materials may be in the same block

{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"
|-
! Stone name
! Found in
! Found how
! Icons
! Item Color
|-
|Alabaster||Gypsum||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|^|#fff|#ccc}}
|-
|Alunite||All [[Igneous extrusive layer|Igneous extrusive]], Kaolinite||Large clusters||{{Raw Tile|`|#fff|#ccc}}
|-
|Anhydrite||Gypsum, Satinspar, Alabaster, Selenite||Single||{{Raw Tile|v|#fff|#ccc}}
|-
|Bauxite||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters||{{Raw Tile|+|#800|#ccc}}
|-
|[[Bituminous coal]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Veins||{{Raw Tile|☼|#888|#CCC}}
|-
|Borax||Gypsum, Rock_Salt||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|`|#fff|#ccc}}
|-
|Brimstone||All [[Igneous extrusive layer|Igneous extrusive]], Gypsum||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|%|#ff0|#ccc}}
|-
|[[Calcite]]||Limestone, Marble||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|"|#FFF|#CCC}}
|-
|Chromite||Olivine||Veins||{{Raw Tile|=|#888|#ccc}}
|-
|Cinnabar||All [[Igneous extrusive layer|Igneous extrusive]], Shale, Quartzite||Veins||{{Raw Tile|£|#f00|#ccc}}
|-
|Cobaltite||All Igneous All [[Metamorphic layer|Metamorphic]]||Veins||{{Raw Tile|£|#00f|#ccc}}
|-
|Cryolite||Granite||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|-|#fff|#ccc}}
|-
|[[Graphite]]||Gneiss, Quartzite, Marble, Schist||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|o|#888|#ccc}}
|-
|Gypsum||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters||{{Raw Tile|#|#ff0|#ccc}}
|-
|Hornblende||All Igneous, All [[:Category:Metamorphic Stone Layers|Metamorphic]]||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|"|#888|#ccc}}
|-
|Ilmenite||Gabbro||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|.|#888|#ccc}}
|-
|Jet||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters||{{Raw Tile|░|#888|#ccc}}
|-
|Kaolinite||All [[:Category:Sedimentary Stone Layers|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters||{{Raw Tile|=|#800|#ccc}}
|-
|Kimberlite||Gabbro||Veins||{{Raw Tile|%|#008|#ccc}}
|-
|[[Lignite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Veins||{{Raw Tile|*|#888|#CCC}}
|-
|Marcasite||Kaolinite||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|%|#fff|#ccc}}
|-
|Mica||All [[Metamorphic layer|Metamorphic]], Granite||Large clusters||{{Raw Tile|v|#888|#ccc}}
|-
|Microcline||All All Stone||Large clusters||{{Raw Tile|%|#0ff|#ccc}}||cyan
|-
|Olivine||Gabbro||Large clusters||{{Raw Tile|%|#080|#ccc}}||green
|-
|Orpiment||All [[Igneous extrusive layer|Igneous extrusive]]||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|-|#ff0|#ccc}}
|-
|Orthoclase||All [[Igneous intrusive layer|Igneous intrusive]], All [[:Category:Metamorphic Stone Layers|Metamorphic]]||Large clusters||{{Raw Tile|%|#ff0|#ccc}}||yellow
|-
|Periclase||Marble||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|,|#fff|#ccc}}
|-
|Petrified wood||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|%|#f00|#ccc}}
|-
|Pitchblende||Granite||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|*|#808|#ccc}}
|-
|Puddingstone||Conglomerate||Large clusters||{{Raw Tile|Θ|#880|#ccc}}
|-
|Pyrolusite||All Igneous ||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|%|#888|#ccc}}
|-
|Realgar||All [[Igneous extrusive layer|Igneous extrusive]]||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|%|#f00|#ccc}}
|-
|Rutile||All [[Metamorphic layer|Metamorphic]], Granite||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|`|#808|#ccc}}
|-
|Saltpeter||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|x|#ff0|#ccc}}
|-
|Satinspar||Gypsum||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|-|#fff|#ccc}}
|-
|Selenite||Gypsum||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|;|#fff|#ccc}}
|-
|Serpentine||Olivine||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|≈|#080|#ccc}}
|-
|Stibnite||All [[Igneous extrusive layer|Igneous extrusive]]||Small clusters||{{Raw Tile|%|#fff|#ccc}}
|-
|Sylvite||Rock salt||Large clusters||{{Raw Tile|=|#ff0|#ccc}}
|-
|Talc||Dolomite||Large clusters||{{Raw Tile|||#fff|#ccc}}
|}

== Stone in real life ==

The geology and stone of Dwarf Fortress is based on real-world geology and mineralogy. To understand the terms used here, you may want to crack open a geology textbook. If you don't happen to have one close by, the Wikipedia articles for [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geology geology], [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineralogy mineralogy], or the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_layers terms in question] might help.

40d Talk:Crop

2007-11-20T17:44:29Z

Bobson: /* Format/appearance */

Can these new plants be planted inside? I know(assume) they cant be grown underground, but will they still grow with a roof over them?

== Winter crops ==

Delving into the raws, it seems some plants can grow in winter. Muck Roots, for instance. We'll need to update the chart to allow this. The chart will, in general, need some work. For instance, Quarry Bushes can only be cooked after they've been processed; how should that be put on the chart? This page can easily be filled in from the raws, but only after the chart is made more comprehensive... [[User:Fieari|Fieari]] 03:24, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
*Stuff like Quarry Bush Leaves can just go in the "Other Uses" column.

== Move to List of crops ==

Would this page be better named "List of crops" to avoid confusion with the crops category? Its a minor wikiish style thing. --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 15:20, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

== Format/appearance ==

We could use some vertical borders between catagories to prevent run-on labels. Everything should be more aligned vertically, which might be tough for a skinny window.
:Done --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 12:44, 20 November 2007 (EST)

== Standardization of individual crop pages ==

I thought the previous wiki had great entries for the individual crops. How can we get the sidebar to appear just like the last wiki?

We should standardize the arrangement of information for the individual crops so that readers can easily obtain information as it is presented in a consistent manner. I think we should also include the basic value of each crop and how it can be multiplied.
--[[User:Rockjianrock|Rockjianrock]] 11:02, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

40d:Crop

2007-11-16T18:15:21Z

Bobson: A touch of color, and better table format.

'''Crops''' are plants that may be grown at [[Farming|farm plots]]. There are two types of crops: above ground and subterranean. The [[seed|seeds]] of subterranean crops may be brought from the starting screen or purchased from the dwarf traders. Above ground crops may be gathered by dwarves with the [[plant gathering]] labor enabled.

Extraction from plants uses the legend:

* P - [[farmer's workshop|Process]]
* B - Process to Barrel
* b - Process to Bag
* V - Process to Vial
* M - [[Mill]]ing (requires a bag)

{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"
|-
! Crop Name
| '''Growing''' '''Seasons''' || '''Habitat''' || '''Plant''' '''Value''' || '''Brewable''' || '''Brew''' '''Value*''' || '''Edible''' '''Cookable''' || '''Edible''' '''Raw''' || '''Extracts''' || '''Extract''' '''Value'''
|-
! [[Plump helmet]]
| All || Subterranean || 2 || Dwarven wine || 10 || Yes || Yes || None ||
|-
! [[Pig tail]]
| Sum Fall || Subterranean || 2 || Dwarven ale || 10 || No || No || Pig tail thread (P)|| ?
|-
! [[Cave wheat]]
| Sum Fall || Subterranean || 2 || Dwarven beer || 10 || Milled || No || Dwarven wheat flour (M) || 20
|-
! [[Sweet pod]]
| Spr Sum || Subterranean || 2 || Dwarven rum || 10 || Milled, Processed || No || Dwarven syrup (B), Dwarven sugar (M) || 20, 20
|-
! [[Quarry bush]]
| Spr Sum Fall || Subterranean || 2 || No || || Processed || No || 5 Quarry bush leaves (b) || 12?
|-
! [[Dimple cup]]
| All || Subterranean || 2 || No || || No || No || Dimple dye (M) || 20
|-
! [[Muck root]]
| All || Wetland (Wet) || 2 || Swamp whiskey || 5 || Yes || Yes || None ||
|-
! [[Bloated tuber]]
| All || Wetland (Dry) || 2 ||Tuber beer || 10 || Yes || Yes || None ||
|-
! [[Kobold bulb]]
| All || Wetland (Wet) || 2 || No || || No || No || Gnomeblight (V) || 100
|-
! [[Prickle berry]]
| All || Not Freezing (Dry) || 2 || Prickle berry wine || 5 || Yes || Yes || None ||
|-
! [[Wild strawberry]]
| All || Not Freezing (Dry) || 2 || Strawberry wine || 10 || Yes || Yes || None ||
|-
! [[Longland grass]]
| All || Not Freezing (Dry) || 2|| Longland beer || 10 || Milled || No || Longland flour (M) || 20
|-
! [[Valley herb]]
| Spr || Temperate Grassland (Dry) || 5 || No || || Yes || No || Golden salve (V) || 100
|-
! [[Rat weed]]
| All|| Not Freezing (Wet)|| 2 || Sewer brew || 5 || Yes || Yes || None ||
|-
! [[Fisher berry]]
| All || Not Freezing (Wet) || 2 || Fisher berry wine || 10 || Yes || Yes || None ||
|-
! [[Rope reed]]
| All || Not Freezing (Wet) || 2 || River spirits || 10 || No || No || Rope reed thread (P) || ?
|-
! [[Blade weed]]
| All || Not Freezing (Dry) || 2 || No || || No || No || Emerald dye (M) || 20
|-
! [[Hide root]]
| All || Not Freezing (Dry) || 1 || No || || No || No || Redroot dye (M) || 10
|-
! [[Sliver barb]]
| All || Not Freezing (Dry) (Evil) || 2 || Gutter cruor || 5 || No || No || Black dye (M) || 20
|-
! [[Sun berry]]
| All || Not Freezing (Wet) (Good) || 2 || Sunshine || 25 || Yes || Yes || None ||
|-
! [[Whip vine]]
| All || Not Freezing (Dry) (Savage)|| 2 ||Whip wine || 15 || Milled || No || Whip vine flour (M) || 25
|}
* The Brewed value of a single plant, which is the value of five Drinks. For comparison with Extracts.

[[Category:Agriculture]]
[[Category:Crops]]

40d:Millstone

2007-11-14T20:12:13Z

Bobson: New category.

{{Workshop|name=Millstone|key=M|job=Milling
|construction=
* Millstone
|construction_job=
* [[Mechanic]]
|use=
* [[Blade weed]]
* [[Cave wheat]]
* [[Dimple cup]]
* [[Hide root]]
* [[Longland grass]]
* [[Sliver barb]]
* [[Sweet pod]]
* [[Whip vine]]
|production=
* [[Dwarven wheat flour]]
* [[Dwarven sugar]]
* [[Longland flour]]
* [[Whip vine flour]]
* [[Dimple dye]]
* [[Emerald dye]]
* [[Redroot dye]]
* [[Sliver dye]]
}}

A '''millstone''' is used to grind up certain [[plant]]s to make [[flour]] and [[dye]]. To operate, it needs to be connected to a mechanical [[power]] source such as a [[water wheel]] or [[windmill]]. If none is available, a [[quern]] can be used instead.

If the power to the millstone is interrupted, any jobs must be requeued when power is returned. Therefore it is best to have uninterrupted power or at least the ability to run it for a long period of time.

The millstone workshop ({{k|b}}-{{k|w}}-{{k|M}}) must be built beside a powered [[gear assembly]] to function. It can't be powered directly from a horizontal [[axle]], but it can be powered directly from a vertical [[axle]].

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Basic watermill design'''
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #07F; padding: 0"|~
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #333; padding: 0"|O
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #333; padding: 0"|*
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|=
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|=
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|=
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #07F; padding: 0"|~
|}

{|
|+ '''Basic windmill design'''
! Level -2
! Level -1
! Level 0
|-
|
{|style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%; border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|-
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|<
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|-
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|-
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #333; padding: 0"|O
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|*
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|-
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|}
|
{|style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%; border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|-
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|X
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|-
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|-
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|o
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|-
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|}
|
{|style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%; border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|-
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|,
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|.
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|.
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|>
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|'
|-
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|'
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|.
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|-
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|.
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|.
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|-
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|,
|style="color: #0F0; padding: 0"|,
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|}
|}

Level -2 has the millstone built beside a gear assembly. 
Level -1 has a vertical axle built over the gear assembly (first remove the floor by designating a channel). 
Level 0 has the windmill (the center tile is above the vertical axle).

{{Buildings}}
[[Category:Workshops]]
[[Category:Machine Components]]

40d Talk:Noise

2007-11-12T00:48:20Z

Bobson: Diagonal Z-Noise

== Diagonal Z-Noise ==

How does the Z-direction work with noise in terms of diagonals? If my bedrooms are two layers down, can they be closer than they would be if they were one layer down? Or is noise effectively a cylinder where the nearby squares aren't feasible even when down 3 layers?

40d Talk:Trading/Talk Caravan

2007-11-07T21:04:31Z

Bobson:

====Insane merchants?====
I have a trade depot at -3 (fully accessible). I've just had a dwarven caravan arrive, and I did some good trading. Then the merchants said goodbye... and just stood there. Then they went insane.

How do I prevent this happening again? Because this lot are starting to putrify...[[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 17:23, 6 November 2007 (EST)
====Caravan roads ====
Does the presence or absense of a road affect where the human caravan appears? I cleared a nice path for it that it ignored when it appeared on the other side of the map... if I had built a road too, would that have forced it to appear on the road? Or will I eventually need roads in all directions? --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 16:04, 7 November 2007 (EST)

40d:Channel

2007-11-06T19:30:58Z

Bobson:

A '''Channel''' is a method of digging mostly to aid the moving of liquids, such as [[water]] and [[magma]], from one point to another. While it is a convenient way to move liquids, it can be used for other creative purposes.

Building Channels will remove the [[floor]] of the current [[z-axis|Z-level]] AND mine the walls in the Z-level below. See the [[digging]] article for a more detailed explanation.

Dwarves can not walk across a channel (as there is nothing to support them). However, you can re[[floor]] over a dug channel using {{K|b}} -> {{K|C}} -> {{K|f}} to allow dwarves to walk over it, while still maintaining the tunnel beneath. If you want to allow fluids to flow into a channel from above and dwarves to walk over it, you can put a [[grate]] on top of a channel, which only fluids will pass through.

In layman's terms: {{k|d}}igging an area will carve out a tunnel in the rock to crawl through, whereas c{{k|h}}annelling an area will remove the bottom of the tunnel as well, creating a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench Trench] of sorts.

[[category:designations]]

40d:Design strategies

2007-11-05T14:42:17Z

Bobson: ...

40d:Design strategies

2007-11-05T14:41:06Z

Bobson: Is that the last of the duplicates?

40d:Design strategies

2007-11-05T14:40:14Z

Bobson: /* Workshop Logistics */ More duplication. Sheehsh.

=Entrance Designs=

==Flooded Entrance==

Using a chamber as your entrance alongside a chamber full of water and some machinery you can flood or drain the entrance at will.

The basic premise requires two [[lever]]s, two [[screw pump]]s and two [[gear assemblies]]. The amount of power required and the number of additional components needed to get the power to the screw pumps varies depending on distance/setup.
One pump is placed to draw from chamber 1 and dump into chamber 2. The other is set in reverse. A gear assembly is placed next to each pump and connected to the main power system. Each gear is linked to a lever.
Now at the flip of a switch you can submerge your entrance with water or magma for easy, secure defense against creatures that aren't amphibious or magma-dwelling, depending.

[[Image:Entflood.jpg]]

The picture above shows the design in action. The green pump is currently on while the red has been disconnected through the grey marked axle. The yellow X is just to mark that there is a channel under the axle.

== 3D Map Format ==
The map is divided in ''levels''. Tiles on each level are composed by whatever is on that tile, and the floor (or absence of floor) below it. A virgin rock tile is composed of a wall of rock and a floor of rock, for example.

In the following examples,

<nowiki>#</nowiki> is a wall of rock

= is a floor of rock

> is a stair down

< is a stair up

Side view:

# Level 1
= Level 1
+ @ Level 0
========<= Level 0
####### > Level -1
========== Level -1

A [[channel]] removes the floor on the level it was designated, and the wall on the level below.

@ 0
=== ===== 0
### ##### -1
========= -1

Mining removes the walls, but does not affect the floors.

1
========= 1
@### 0
========= 0

Building new walls however can affect the floor above, replacing it if it is not already there. I have used the O symbol to show where a new wall would go, in each case it's just one wall but the left hand one would add a floor tile as shown.

==O ====
##O @ O###
==========

[[Stairs]] down only remove the floor, and stairs up do not affect the floor or the ceiling. Stairs up+down act as a combination of both.

1
==>=>==== 1 Level 1 view Level 0 view Level -1 view
< X 0 ############ ############ ############
====X=>== 0 > > < X > < <
< < -1 ############ ############ ############
========= -1

Up-[[ramp]]s remove the ceiling above them and create a down-ramp automatically. They can't be used by dwarves unless built specifically. Up-ramps can be found in the same submenu of the {{K|d}}esignation menu as up- and down-staircases. Read more about this under [[digging]].

1
====v==== 1
^#### 0
========= 0
=Interior Design=
==Workshop Logistics==

At a certain point, the most important thing for your fortress is not that you have workshops, but that they are placed efficiently:

<code><pre>

=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
...............
...............
...............
===============
</pre></code>

The idea is that there is a wide hallway at the bottom for easy access for haulers. The workshops are at the top because much less dwarf-hours will be spent moving to the workshop itself than haulers moving to the stockpiles. You pair workshops that have similar inputs or similar outputs or where the output of one is the input of another. Examples: Pair a mechanic's workshop with a mason's workshop because both consume stone and produce furniture. If multiple inputs are required, it is better to split the 3x6 space into specialized stockpiles rather than having a single 'input' stockpile because you want to make sure that there is always some of every input. Use the 'take from stockpile' interface to fill these subsidiary stockpiles from your main stockpile and vice versa.

Another good way to do this is with the stockpiles on the next Z-level, making it slightly more efficient, like this:

Level 0:
<code><pre>
===============
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
...>......>....
===============
</pre></code>
Level -1:
<code><pre>
===============
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=..<...=..<...=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
...............
...............
...............
===============
</pre></code>

=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
...............
...............
...............
===============
</pre></code>

The idea is that there is a wide hallway at the bottom for easy access for haulers. The workshops are at the top because much less dwarf-hours will be spent moving to the workshop itself than haulers moving to the stockpiles. You pair workshops that have similar inputs or similar outputs or where the output of one is the input of another. Examples: Pair a mechanic's workshop with a mason's workshop because both consume stone and produce furniture. If multiple inputs are required, it is better to split the 3x6 space into specialized stockpiles rather than having a single 'input' stockpile because you want to make sure that there is always some of every input. Use the 'take from stockpile' interface to fill these subsidiary stockpiles from your main stockpile and vice versa.

Another good way to do this is with the stockpiles on the next Z-level, making it slightly more efficient, like this:

Level 0:
<code><pre>
===============
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
...>......>....
===============
</pre></code>
Level -1:
<code><pre>
===============
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=..<...=..<...=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
...............
...............
...............
===============
</pre></code>

The idea is that there is a wide hallway at the bottom for easy access for haulers. The workshops are at the top because much less dwarf-hours will be spent moving to the workshop itself than haulers moving to the stockpiles. You pair workshops that have similar inputs or similar outputs or where the output of one is the input of another. Examples: Pair a mechanic's workshop with a mason's workshop because both consume stone and produce furniture. If multiple inputs are required, it is better to split the 3x6 space into specialized stockpiles rather than having a single 'input' stockpile because you want to make sure that there is always some of every input. Use the 'take from stockpile' interface to fill these subsidiary stockpiles from your main stockpile and vice versa.

Another good way to do this is with the stockpiles on the next Z-level, making it slightly more efficient, like this:

Level 0:
<code><pre>
===============
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
...>......>....
===============
</pre></code>
Level -1:
<code><pre>
===============
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=..<...=..<...=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
...............
...............
...............
===============
</pre></code>

=Miscellaneous Strategies=
==Use for Soil Layers==
[[Soil]] layers (such as clay, loam, etc.) - which may at first seem to be of secondary importance - are very useful for large storage areas, as they do not leave rock behind when dug through and may be excavated much faster by comparison. You can also farm on soil tiles without first making them muddy.

Since soil cannot be smoothed or detailed, it is a less than ideal medium to assign rooms in. Workshops do not have happy thoughts for increased surrounding worth, so if proximity to another area is not an issue, soil is a great place to put them.

[[Category:Guides]]

40d:Design strategies

2007-11-05T14:38:05Z

Bobson: WHere do all these soil layer sections keep coming from?

=Entrance Designs=

==Flooded Entrance==

Using a chamber as your entrance alongside a chamber full of water and some machinery you can flood or drain the entrance at will.

The basic premise requires two [[lever]]s, two [[screw pump]]s and two [[gear assemblies]]. The amount of power required and the number of additional components needed to get the power to the screw pumps varies depending on distance/setup.
One pump is placed to draw from chamber 1 and dump into chamber 2. The other is set in reverse. A gear assembly is placed next to each pump and connected to the main power system. Each gear is linked to a lever.
Now at the flip of a switch you can submerge your entrance with water or magma for easy, secure defense against creatures that aren't amphibious or magma-dwelling, depending.

[[Image:Entflood.jpg]]

The picture above shows the design in action. The green pump is currently on while the red has been disconnected through the grey marked axle. The yellow X is just to mark that there is a channel under the axle.

== 3D Map Format ==
The map is divided in ''levels''. Tiles on each level are composed by whatever is on that tile, and the floor (or absence of floor) below it. A virgin rock tile is composed of a wall of rock and a floor of rock, for example.

In the following examples,

<nowiki>#</nowiki> is a wall of rock

= is a floor of rock

> is a stair down

< is a stair up

Side view:

# Level 1
= Level 1
+ @ Level 0
========<= Level 0
####### > Level -1
========== Level -1

A [[channel]] removes the floor on the level it was designated, and the wall on the level below.

@ 0
=== ===== 0
### ##### -1
========= -1

Mining removes the walls, but does not affect the floors.

1
========= 1
@### 0
========= 0

Building new walls however can affect the floor above, replacing it if it is not already there. I have used the O symbol to show where a new wall would go, in each case it's just one wall but the left hand one would add a floor tile as shown.

==O ====
##O @ O###
==========

[[Stairs]] down only remove the floor, and stairs up do not affect the floor or the ceiling. Stairs up+down act as a combination of both.

1
==>=>==== 1 Level 1 view Level 0 view Level -1 view
< X 0 ############ ############ ############
====X=>== 0 > > < X > < <
< < -1 ############ ############ ############
========= -1

Up-[[ramp]]s remove the ceiling above them and create a down-ramp automatically. They can't be used by dwarves unless built specifically. Up-ramps can be found in the same submenu of the {{K|d}}esignation menu as up- and down-staircases. Read more about this under [[digging]].

1
====v==== 1
^#### 0
========= 0
=Interior Design=
==Workshop Logistics==

At a certain point, the most important thing for your fortress is not that you have workshops, but that they are placed efficiently:

<code><pre>

=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
...............
...............
...............
===============
</pre></code>

The idea is that there is a wide hallway at the bottom for easy access for haulers. The workshops are at the top because much less dwarf-hours will be spent moving to the workshop itself than haulers moving to the stockpiles. You pair workshops that have similar inputs or similar outputs or where the output of one is the input of another. Examples: Pair a mechanic's workshop with a mason's workshop because both consume stone and produce furniture. If multiple inputs are required, it is better to split the 3x6 space into specialized stockpiles rather than having a single 'input' stockpile because you want to make sure that there is always some of every input. Use the 'take from stockpile' interface to fill these subsidiary stockpiles from your main stockpile and vice versa.

Another good way to do this is with the stockpiles on the next Z-level, making it slightly more efficient, like this:

Level 0:
<code><pre>
===============
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
...>......>....
===============
</pre></code>
Level -1:
<code><pre>
===============
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=..<...=..<...=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
...............
...............
...............
===============
</pre></code>

The idea is that there is a wide hallway at the bottom for easy access for haulers. The workshops are at the top because much less dwarf-hours will be spent moving to the workshop itself than haulers moving to the stockpiles. You pair workshops that have similar inputs or similar outputs or where the output of one is the input of another. Examples: Pair a mechanic's workshop with a mason's workshop because both consume stone and produce furniture. If multiple inputs are required, it is better to split the 3x6 space into specialized stockpiles rather than having a single 'input' stockpile because you want to make sure that there is always some of every input. Use the 'take from stockpile' interface to fill these subsidiary stockpiles from your main stockpile and vice versa.

Another good way to do this is with the stockpiles on the next Z-level, making it slightly more efficient, like this:

Level 0:
<code><pre>
===============
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
...>......>....
===============
</pre></code>
Level -1:
<code><pre>
===============
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=..<...=..<...=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
...............
...............
...............
===============
</pre></code>

=Miscellaneous Strategies=
==Use for Soil Layers==
[[Soil]] layers (such as clay, loam, etc.) - which may at first seem to be of secondary importance - are very useful for large storage areas, as they do not leave rock behind when dug through and may be excavated much faster by comparison. You can also farm on soil tiles without first making them muddy.

Since soil cannot be smoothed or detailed, it is a less than ideal medium to assign rooms in. Workshops do not have happy thoughts for increased surrounding worth, so if proximity to another area is not an issue, soil is a great place to put them.

[[Category:Guides]]

40d:Design strategies

2007-11-05T14:36:18Z

Bobson: Formatting, take 2.

=Entrance Designs=

==Flooded Entrance==

Using a chamber as your entrance alongside a chamber full of water and some machinery you can flood or drain the entrance at will.

The basic premise requires two [[lever]]s, two [[screw pump]]s and two [[gear assemblies]]. The amount of power required and the number of additional components needed to get the power to the screw pumps varies depending on distance/setup.
One pump is placed to draw from chamber 1 and dump into chamber 2. The other is set in reverse. A gear assembly is placed next to each pump and connected to the main power system. Each gear is linked to a lever.
Now at the flip of a switch you can submerge your entrance with water or magma for easy, secure defense against creatures that aren't amphibious or magma-dwelling, depending.

[[Image:Entflood.jpg]]

The picture above shows the design in action. The green pump is currently on while the red has been disconnected through the grey marked axle. The yellow X is just to mark that there is a channel under the axle.

== 3D Map Format ==
The map is divided in ''levels''. Tiles on each level are composed by whatever is on that tile, and the floor (or absence of floor) below it. A virgin rock tile is composed of a wall of rock and a floor of rock, for example.

In the following examples,

<nowiki>#</nowiki> is a wall of rock

= is a floor of rock

> is a stair down

< is a stair up

Side view:

# Level 1
= Level 1
+ @ Level 0
========<= Level 0
####### > Level -1
========== Level -1

A [[channel]] removes the floor on the level it was designated, and the wall on the level below.

@ 0
=== ===== 0
### ##### -1
========= -1

Mining removes the walls, but does not affect the floors.

1
========= 1
@### 0
========= 0

Building new walls however can affect the floor above, replacing it if it is not already there. I have used the O symbol to show where a new wall would go, in each case it's just one wall but the left hand one would add a floor tile as shown.

==O ====
##O @ O###
==========

[[Stairs]] down only remove the floor, and stairs up do not affect the floor or the ceiling. Stairs up+down act as a combination of both.

1
==>=>==== 1 Level 1 view Level 0 view Level -1 view
< X 0 ############ ############ ############
====X=>== 0 > > < X > < <
< < -1 ############ ############ ############
========= -1

Up-[[ramp]]s remove the ceiling above them and create a down-ramp automatically. They can't be used by dwarves unless built specifically. Up-ramps can be found in the same submenu of the {{K|d}}esignation menu as up- and down-staircases. Read more about this under [[digging]].

1
====v==== 1
^#### 0
========= 0
=Interior Design=
==Workshop Logistics==

At a certain point, the most important thing for your fortress is not that you have workshops, but that they are placed efficiently:

==Use for Soil Layers==
[[Soil]] layers (such as clay, loam, etc.) - which may at first seem to be of secondary importance - are very useful for large storage areas and large-scale channeling projects, as they do not leave rock behind when dug through and may be excavated much faster by comparison. You can also farm on soil tiles without first making them muddy.

Since soil cannot be smoothed or detailed, it is a less than ideal medium to assign rooms in. Workshops do not have happy thoughts for increased surrounding worth, so if proximity to another area is not an issue, soil is a great place to put them.

[[Category:Guides]]
<code><pre>

=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
...............
...............
...............
===============
</pre></code>

The idea is that there is a wide hallway at the bottom for easy access for haulers. The workshops are at the top because much less dwarf-hours will be spent moving to the workshop itself than haulers moving to the stockpiles. You pair workshops that have similar inputs or similar outputs or where the output of one is the input of another. Examples: Pair a mechanic's workshop with a mason's workshop because both consume stone and produce furniture. If multiple inputs are required, it is better to split the 3x6 space into specialized stockpiles rather than having a single 'input' stockpile because you want to make sure that there is always some of every input. Use the 'take from stockpile' interface to fill these subsidiary stockpiles from your main stockpile and vice versa.

Another good way to do this is with the stockpiles on the next Z-level, making it slightly more efficient, like this:

Level 0:
<code><pre>
===============
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
...>......>....
===============
</pre></code>
Level -1:
<code><pre>
===============
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=..<...=..<...=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
...............
...............
...............
===============
</pre></code>

The idea is that there is a wide hallway at the bottom for easy access for haulers. The workshops are at the top because much less dwarf-hours will be spent moving to the workshop itself than haulers moving to the stockpiles. You pair workshops that have similar inputs or similar outputs or where the output of one is the input of another. Examples: Pair a mechanic's workshop with a mason's workshop because both consume stone and produce furniture. If multiple inputs are required, it is better to split the 3x6 space into specialized stockpiles rather than having a single 'input' stockpile because you want to make sure that there is always some of every input. Use the 'take from stockpile' interface to fill these subsidiary stockpiles from your main stockpile and vice versa.

Another good way to do this is with the stockpiles on the next Z-level, making it slightly more efficient, like this:

Level 0:
<code><pre>
===============
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
...>......>....
===============
</pre></code>
Level -1:
<code><pre>
===============
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=..<...=..<...=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
...............
...............
...............
===============
</pre></code>

=Miscellaneous Strategies=
==Use for Soil Layers==
[[Soil]] layers (such as clay, loam, etc.) - which may at first seem to be of secondary importance - are very useful for large storage areas, as they do not leave rock behind when dug through and may be excavated much faster by comparison. You can also farm on soil tiles without first making them muddy.

Since soil cannot be smoothed or detailed, it is a less than ideal medium to assign rooms in. Workshops do not have happy thoughts for increased surrounding worth, so if proximity to another area is not an issue, soil is a great place to put them.

[[Category:Guides]]

40d:Design strategies

2007-11-05T14:34:58Z

Bobson: /* Workshop Logistics */ Formatting

=Entrance Designs=

==Flooded Entrance==

Using a chamber as your entrance alongside a chamber full of water and some machinery you can flood or drain the entrance at will.

The basic premise requires two [[lever]]s, two [[screw pump]]s and two [[gear assemblies]]. The amount of power required and the number of additional components needed to get the power to the screw pumps varies depending on distance/setup.
One pump is placed to draw from chamber 1 and dump into chamber 2. The other is set in reverse. A gear assembly is placed next to each pump and connected to the main power system. Each gear is linked to a lever.
Now at the flip of a switch you can submerge your entrance with water or magma for easy, secure defense against creatures that aren't amphibious or magma-dwelling, depending.

[[Image:Entflood.jpg]]

The picture above shows the design in action. The green pump is currently on while the red has been disconnected through the grey marked axle. The yellow X is just to mark that there is a channel under the axle.

== 3D Map Format ==
The map is divided in ''levels''. Tiles on each level are composed by whatever is on that tile, and the floor (or absence of floor) below it. A virgin rock tile is composed of a wall of rock and a floor of rock, for example.

In the following examples,

<nowiki>#</nowiki> is a wall of rock

= is a floor of rock

> is a stair down

< is a stair up

Side view:

# Level 1
= Level 1
+ @ Level 0
========<= Level 0
####### > Level -1
========== Level -1

A [[channel]] removes the floor on the level it was designated, and the wall on the level below.

@ 0
=== ===== 0
### ##### -1
========= -1

Mining removes the walls, but does not affect the floors.

1
========= 1
@### 0
========= 0

Building new walls however can affect the floor above, replacing it if it is not already there. I have used the O symbol to show where a new wall would go, in each case it's just one wall but the left hand one would add a floor tile as shown.

==O ====
##O @ O###
==========

[[Stairs]] down only remove the floor, and stairs up do not affect the floor or the ceiling. Stairs up+down act as a combination of both.

1
==>=>==== 1 Level 1 view Level 0 view Level -1 view
< X 0 ############ ############ ############
====X=>== 0 > > < X > < <
< < -1 ############ ############ ############
========= -1

Up-[[ramp]]s remove the ceiling above them and create a down-ramp automatically. They can't be used by dwarves unless built specifically. Up-ramps can be found in the same submenu of the {{K|d}}esignation menu as up- and down-staircases. Read more about this under [[digging]].

1
====v==== 1
^#### 0
========= 0
=Interior Design=
==Workshop Logistics==

At a certain point, the most important thing for your fortress is not that you have workshops, but that they are placed efficiently:

==Use for Soil Layers==
[[Soil]] layers (such as clay, loam, etc.) - which may at first seem to be of secondary importance - are very useful for large storage areas and large-scale channeling projects, as they do not leave rock behind when dug through and may be excavated much faster by comparison. You can also farm on soil tiles without first making them muddy.

Since soil cannot be smoothed or detailed, it is a less than ideal medium to assign rooms in. Workshops do not have happy thoughts for increased surrounding worth, so if proximity to another area is not an issue, soil is a great place to put them.

[[Category:Guides]]
<code><pre>

=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
...............
...............
...............
===============
</pre></code>

The idea is that there is a wide hallway at the bottom for easy access for haulers. The workshops are at the top because much less dwarf-hours will be spent moving to the workshop itself than haulers moving to the stockpiles. You pair workshops that have similar inputs or similar outputs or where the output of one is the input of another. Examples: Pair a mechanic's workshop with a mason's workshop because both consume stone and produce furniture. If multiple inputs are required, it is better to split the 3x6 space into specialized stockpiles rather than having a single 'input' stockpile because you want to make sure that there is always some of every input. Use the 'take from stockpile' interface to fill these subsidiary stockpiles from your main stockpile and vice versa.

Another good way to do this is with the stockpiles on the next Z-level, making it slightly more efficient, like this:

Level 0:
<code><pre>
===============
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
...>......>....
===============
</pre></code>
Level -1:
<code><pre>
===============
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=..<...=..<...=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
...............
...............
...............
===============
</pre></code>

==Use for Soil Layers==
[[Soil]] layers (such as clay, loam, etc.) - which may at first seem to be of secondary importance - are very useful for large storage areas and large-scale channeling projects, as they do not leave rock behind when dug through and may be excavated much faster by comparison. You can also farm on soil tiles without first making them muddy.

Since soil cannot be smoothed or detailed, it is a less than ideal medium to assign rooms in. Workshops do not have happy thoughts for increased surrounding worth, so if proximity to another area is not an issue, soil is a great place to put them.

[[Category:Guides]]

=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
...............
...............
...............
===============
</pre></code>

The idea is that there is a wide hallway at the bottom for easy access for haulers. The workshops are at the top because much less dwarf-hours will be spent moving to the workshop itself than haulers moving to the stockpiles. You pair workshops that have similar inputs or similar outputs or where the output of one is the input of another. Examples: Pair a mechanic's workshop with a mason's workshop because both consume stone and produce furniture. If multiple inputs are required, it is better to split the 3x6 space into specialized stockpiles rather than having a single 'input' stockpile because you want to make sure that there is always some of every input. Use the 'take from stockpile' interface to fill these subsidiary stockpiles from your main stockpile and vice versa.

Another good way to do this is with the stockpiles on the next Z-level, making it slightly more efficient, like this:

Level 0:
<code><pre>
===============
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
=WWWWWW=WWWWWW=
...>......>....
===============
</pre></code>
Level -1:
<code><pre>
===============
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=iiiiii=iiiiii=
=..<...=..<...=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
=oooooo=oooooo=
...............
...............
...............
===============
</pre></code>

=Miscellaneous Strategies=
==Use for Soil Layers==
[[Soil]] layers (such as clay, loam, etc.) - which may at first seem to be of secondary importance - are very useful for large storage areas, as they do not leave rock behind when dug through and may be excavated much faster by comparison. You can also farm on soil tiles without first making them muddy.

Since soil cannot be smoothed or detailed, it is a less than ideal medium to assign rooms in. Workshops do not have happy thoughts for increased surrounding worth, so if proximity to another area is not an issue, soil is a great place to put them.

[[Category:Guides]]

40d:Still

2007-11-02T18:49:26Z

Bobson: Double redirects are bad.

#REDIRECT [[Workshop#Still]]

40d:Floodgate

2007-11-01T19:23:23Z

Bobson:

Floodgates are objects that regulate the flow of [[liquids]]. A wood, stone or metal floodgate will suffice for water flow, but only stone and metal will hold back magma. Floodgates can be linked up to levers or pressure plates to create farms, a water source or as a defense against invaders.

If theres no roof above your floodgate and the the water source if from a higher elevation it will spill over it.

An open floodgate can be walked through, a closed one can not.

40d:Channel

2007-11-01T19:13:31Z

Bobson:

[[category:designations]]

Building Channels will remove the floor of the current Z-level AND mine the walls in the Z-level below.

Dwarves can not walk across a channel (as there is nothing to support them). However, you can put a grate on top of a channel, and the dwarves will be supported. This seems to be requiered to dig a long narrow channel.

Needs more info.

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2007-10-30T20:26:21Z

Bobson: /* Change guide? */

- GUYS I'VE TRIED TO IMPORT PRETTY MUCH ALL USER ACCOUNTS. Let me know if you notice something weird in this wiki, it's possible that parts of the import were fucked. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:05, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

There's some people reporting problems in this thread: http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001158 --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:22, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

The new version is out now! Update the main page! ~~

== Accounts had to be wiped ==

It's out!
It's out!
Rejoice!
By the way, my account is nonexistent, could you fix that?
--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 19:37, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

:You'll have to recreate it. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 19:42, 29 October 2007 (EDT)
:My user account didn't turn up? :( --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 20:05, 29 October 2007 (EDT)
::Quoted from Senso (the wiki admin) on the forums:
::"I've tried importing the user accounts but since I've upgraded to a new version of MediaWiki, it doesn't work. They've made changes, whatever.
::
::So yeah, please recreate your account. It's sad, I know BUT LIFE IS SAD AND GLOOMY. You'll all forget about it once the new version is released."
::No big deal. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 20:31, 29 October 2007 (EDT)
::Wow, the images during registration are ridiculous. Took me half a dozen until I could recognise more than half of it. --[[User:Ravana|Ravana]] 23:32, 29 October 2007 (EDT)
:::Haha I had the same trouble, I just kept going until I got one I could read. --[[User:Gibbonofdoom|Gibbonofdoom]] 03:58, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

== Change guide? ==

Was just thinking, perhaps one of the links (or sections) on the main page should be a guide to the major changes between last version and this one. Yes, a TON of stuff has changed, but a lot also has not, and a lot of the core concepts are the same... so I would imagine many of us who have played the previous version(s) would love a section where we can see a list of new basics we have to learn, along with links to those things' individual pages... like, z-axis (obviously), mechanisms, fluid dynamics, nobles, elevation/slope, farming... you get the idea. --[[User:Cliffjeff|Cliffjeff]] 11:43, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:Yea, I'm thinking not. Isn't the whole point of DF finding things out on your own? "Losing is Fun" and all that. Ok, so if we summarized all the changes, and someone (like me) didn't want to know we could not just not look at it right? What can I say? I'M WEAK! If we summarize the changes I will CONSUME it! (I'm only here because I still have another 6 hours of work before I can go home and try it!)
::Meanwhile, I'm lazy and stubborn and would love a consolidated list of only new things I need to know =p and I'm also trapped at work and unable to mess around in the game :( but if the whole point was finding out things on your own, why would we have a wiki? ;p --[[User:Cliffjeff|Cliffjeff]] 15:58, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:::I agree, I think the change guide is a good idea, and it would also help us direct our attention at the articles that are likely to need the most work. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:01, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
::::It ought not to be very hard to generate a basic change guide based on the official change notes, and then update it as the details are discovered. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 16:26, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

40d Talk:Cave-in

2007-10-30T17:49:07Z

Bobson:

Is this still valid? I recall that only truly disconnected areas cave in these days...

Yeah, this is what I've heard. I'm digging out a bunch of greater than 7x7 rooms now so we'll find out shortly.
--[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 00:26, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:I've dug out some big rooms (10x10 I think is the biggest so far) and not had a cave-in for a season or so. I'm thinking it only does it on disconnects. makes it ALOT easier to plan your fort out. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 00:33, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

::No kidding. What are the chances of accidentally completely disconnecting an area? I think that Toady One is going to continue to tweak the cave-in circumstances, though, so some things that don't cave in now may in later versions. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:56, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

::Sorry, but I don't understand what a disconnected area is. Could you try to explain? [[User:Sinoth|sinoth]] 12:50, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:::A disconnected section doesn't connect to the rest of the map. As far as I know, that means it checks above, below, north, south, east, and west of a block of stone for connecting blocks, and continues checking through them to make sure the section isn't isolated. Toady mentioned something along the lines of it only checking for disconnects around the area you are mining. If the section is isolated, each block of the disconnected section will fall straight down. That's the general idea, I believe, and such disconnects are not easy to create. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 13:12, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

::::I can easily see how to create an isolated support, but how would you create an isolated room? The dwarves would have to get there somehow... Also, wouldn't an isolated room (with nothing on any side of it, including above) be less likely to collapse because there's nothing nearby to collapse into it? --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 13:49, 30 October 2007 (EDT)