Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.31 Talk:Gem industry

2010-10-24T11:46:53Z

Dangerous Beans:

Are large gems still produced, and can ammo still be encrusted?
:Yes, large gems are still produced. I don't know about ammo. Should we mention that perfect gems are the result of a gem cutter (setter?) getting an item producing mood? Also, high value gems can be imported...--[[Special:Contributions/131.183.160.172|131.183.160.172]] 14:14, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone know what stockpile perfect gems go in? Gem and furniture aren't taking it.
:My guess would be finished goods stockpile. That is where large gems get put. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 11:46, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Raw adamantine

2010-10-09T07:05:26Z

Dangerous Beans:

==Location==
According to the current info: "If an adamantine veins is located in an embark square, it will be in the center of this square."

I'm not entirely sure this is true. I am currently on a 2x2 embark, and have located 2 adamantine veins. One is vertically centered between the NW and SW embark square, and the other is vertically centered between the NE and SE embark square. They are definitely not located in the center or their respective embark squares. --[[User:Telarin|Telarin]] 14:15, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

==Infobox==
Uh oh! I don't know what happened, but the stonelookup template got messed with here, when I used the Rater! I never understood the Stonelookup template anyway, anyone know how to fix? --[[User:Aescula|Aescula]] 08:16, 26 May 2010 (UTC) (I know, an admin without knowledge of what happened, but... Yeah.)
:Looks fine to me... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 12:45, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

==Confirmation?==
I verified all things I added a while ago using reveal on several random embark locations, further I checked the values of material multipliers. Adamantine is magma proof, also tried that out. The other information is easily confirmed by screens. Should I add those? I reverted the edit, for the information is almost certainly correct. Just try it yourself.[[User:BBW|BBW]] 00:01, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
:In that case, my apologies. I was misinformed. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 00:23, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

== Down-stairs? ==

Can down-stairs prevent the demons from getting though? --[[User:Tarran|Tarran]]
:Unlikely - even in 40d, down-stairs above open space were enough to let Spirits of Fire through. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:34, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
::Well, I'm pretty sure clowns are now randomly generated, but even if you get lucky and none of them can fly, they can still barf webs/fire/radioactive elves/whatever up through the stairwell. I'd recommend a good, sturdy wall. --[[User:Mr Frog|Mr Frog]] 23:21, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

== Outdated Picture ==

Really minor detail, but the image on the page is from 40d, which isn't really accurate for this version's article. Could someone take a similar screenie of the 0.31.01 [[magma sea]] pillars? I'd do it myself, but I've already found a pillar in my current fortress and I really don't feel like probing around for another one (assuming there even IS another one in there). Sorry for nitpicking. --[[User:Mr Frog|Mr Frog]] 23:11, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:The message is exactly the same, but I see what you're getting at - I'm going to leave that screenie but go find another of the pillars to insert a little later. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 02:45, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
::Could that second image be a little larger in the original, and then get thumbed? Some detail is lost, and it'd be nice to see it "full size", as an option (as is w/ the announcement image - but no detail was lost in that, natch.) Oh - and a quick footnote comment/explanation about how that image was achieved would be nice too - keeps newbies from going crazy w/ the vanilla game. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:15, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Absolutely; I didn't realize there was an auto-thumbnailing function thing until I had already shrunken it myself. I'll go and recapture the image and then add the relevant details on how it was done later tonight. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 21:27, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

== Best Weapons ==
The part of the article that says "and weapons and armor made from it are very likely among the best possible" is wrong, isn't it? I thought since the material re-write, adamantine made the worst weapons in the game due to their low weight, and thus low force of impact. At the very least, the make terrible hammers and maces now, don't they? --[[Special:Contributions/130.184.250.29|130.184.250.29]] 23:10, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
*They are still better than all the other materials (with the possible exception of slade) even due its low weight. Maybe its weapons aren't as strong as before but they are still better than steel.--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 16:45, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
** I thought I read somewhere that silver war hammers were ''way'' better than adamantine war hammers. --[[User:MarauderIIC|MarauderIIC]] 04:45, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

== Safe mining? ==
I just had an idea if you did not want to breach HFS, what if you just dig down to lower levels of the tube and carve fortifications? The only danger is ranged attacks from within. And you could be confident that those levels at and above are safe. --[[User:Tarran|Tarran]] 18:46, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
:The issue is that you don't know where HFS starts - even if you knew where it was, there's a chance that on the way there you'd accidentally pierce a hollow part of the tube and invoke Hell's wrath before you were prepared. If you carve fortifications into the adamantine walls, it only defends you against semi-molten rock. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 18:51, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
:Given the actual layout, that could be infeasible - the actual wall around the tube is only 1 tile thick in most places, and the tube itself is usually surrounded either by semi-molten rock (which cannot be mined) or magma (which could be rather problematic to remove); thus, while you could certainly try to carve fortifications, there'd still be the problem of getting into a position from which to carve them. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:53, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
::I'm Talking about tubes that extend past the magma sea, and it's not that much of a problem to dig around the whole vein level... Right?. --[[User:Tarran|Tarran]] 18:58, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Not all of them actually extend that far beyond the magma, and it's entirely possible (and quite likely) that the hollow part will be within the magma or molten rock. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:03, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
::::What I'm trying to say is that if you use fortifications then you could figure out which levels ''above'' the magma sea are safe, the levels at or below it still require military. --[[User:Tarran|Tarran]] 19:12, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::Ah, I see - assumed you were talking about deeper levels. Well, that'd make sense for levels above the magma sea certainly, though I don't think it's that likely that above the sea you'd dig into HFS. Mildly practical but certainly no trouble. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 21:23, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::Did 7 embarks and used reveal on all 7 the hollow part started at equal or below the semi-molten rock layer each time. [[User:MLegion|MLegion]] 20:25, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::With version 0.31.14 (but world generated in 0.31.13), I just ran inadvertantly into HFS while I was searching for magma :-(. No idea where the magma is, but surely the nasty stuff is there.--[[Special:Contributions/88.149.235.255|88.149.235.255]] 20:36, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

== Adamantite Thread ==

Do Dwarves sutured with Adamantite thread have defensive bonuses? [[User:Ghosteh|Ghosteh]] 23:25, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
:the 30,000 dwarf buck man? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 07:05, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Vattic/Mechanical Volcano Explained

2010-10-04T08:24:02Z

Dangerous Beans: Created page with 'Very cool. Is there some way to hide the axle inside the pipe? Maybe by using a line of metal gears to transmit the power. That would require more power, but that is pretty easy.…'

Very cool. Is there some way to hide the axle inside the pipe? Maybe by using a line of metal gears to transmit the power. That would require more power, but that is pretty easy.
I am not sure how you would stop the magma from flowing into the fortress. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 08:24, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Quarry bush

2010-10-03T11:30:53Z

Dangerous Beans: Removed redundant sentence

{{quality|Exceptional|08:00, 22 May 2010 (UTC)}}{{Crop|color=7:0:0|seed_color=7:0:1|character=♣|name=Quarry bush|seed=Rock nut
|cookable=If processed
|spring=1|summer=1|autumn=1
|habitat=Subterranean
|uses=
* {{L|Food}}
|other_products=
* Quarry bush leaves (Process to bag)}}
{{av}}

The '''quarry bush''' is one of the six known {{L|subterranean}} {{L|crop}}s, and as such it may only be grown {{L|underground}}. They can be {{L|farming|planted}} in {{L|Spring}}, {{L|Summer}} and {{L|Autumn}}.

Quarry bush {{L|seed|seeds}} are known as '''rock nuts'''. Unlike the seeds of other plants, they can be {{L|food|eaten raw}}.

Quarry bushes may be {{L|plant processing|processed}} at a {{L|farmer's workshop}} into {{L|bag|bags}} of quarry bush leaves, which then must be {{L|cooking|cooked}} at the {{L|kitchen}} to be edible. You will need an empty bag to be available for this task.

Processing quarry bushes at a {{L|farmer's workshop}} requires one {{L|bag}}, and will produce 5 quarry bush leaves (and one rock nut) for every plant in a given stack of quarry bushes. Quarry bush leaves will be removed from their bag if taken for cooking while still in a farmer's workshop.

{{L|Cook}}ing quarry bush leaves can result in very large stacks of Prepared Food, thus saving space and {{L|barrel|barrels}}. In a fortress that relies on selling large expensive stacks of Prepared Food, quarry bush leaves are great filler: a lavish meal made from {{L|whip wine}} and {{L|cheese|dwarven cheese}} with two stacks of quarry bush leaves for filler is worth almost ten times more than an easy meal made from wine and cheese alone.

Quarry bushes cannot be {{L|brewing|brewed}} into {{L|alcohol}}.

{{gamedata}}
{{Plants}}

v0.31 Talk:Water wheel

2010-07-04T10:23:24Z

Dangerous Beans:

==Perpetual Motion==
Done a few quick tests. Waterwheels and screw pumps still have the same numbers for power. Built a perpetual motion machine using the #3 reactor design which works as before. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 19:10, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
:Also tested the Dwarven Water Reactor, as well as a mini variant. Both function fully and are repeatable. Thus, I added the two designs into the page. [[User:Jjdorf|Jjdorf]] 09:27, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
::The Dwarven Water Reactor is working splendidly for me, although I subsequently discovered a siege engineer standing on the intake grate, apparently just staring at it... until, to my utter astonishment, he rather self-satisfiedly wandered off with a turtle fished out of the running device! Apparently they're good for more than just power. --[[User:Onul Rigothzas|Onul Rigothzas]] 11:57, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

I have a weird one; i built a 5 waterwheel reactor to power a waterfall, with hatches over the pump uptake spots. I closed the hatches to stop the reactor, but it is still running. the lower level is all 7 water, and the upper level is dry, but the system keeps pumping out 500 power.
anyone else seen this? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 10:23, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

== Perpetual motion if Goldberg were a dwarf... ==

I had a need to pump water out of my artificial underground lake. 
I could have just built a windmill, but I figured that since I was pumping out the water anyway, I may as well have some fun with it. 
Here is what I plan to build. I'll let you know how it goes...

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|style="color: #FF0000; padding: 0"|X
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'''X X''' = '''Pumps from south''' 
'''X''' = '''Floodgate''' 
'''* or *''' = '''Gear assembly'''

Math as follows: 
Water wheels generate: 90 power x 4 wheels = 360 power 
Gears consume: 5 power x 5 gears = 25 power 
Pumps consume: 10 power x 3 pumps = 30 power 
Net power produced: 305 power 
Assuming a windmill starter motor: 
Dead weight = (2 pump x 10) + (5 gears x 5) + (4 wheels x 10) = 85 power 
3 windmills at full output for 120 power or 5 at half output for 100 power. 
If you can't generate 85 units of wind power, add another lever to the middle of the top three gears to drop the load to 30 
 
If you think you're going to restart them often, consider a second independent water reactor running connected to the first, to enable them to jump start each other and avoid the dodgy windmills.. 
 
 
 
'''Some notes...''' 
 
The water source on the left of the lower two layers is the top of a larger lake. The retaining wall is there to contain the top layer. You may not need this wall, if you have other measures in place to properly control the level of the main body of water. 
 
The top layer of the construction, if you can arrange it, should probably be the first layer below ground. This has the advantage of letting you connect windmills, should you feel the need. I wouldn't recommend putting the gearing itself on the surface... I expect it to scream target at more destructive monsters. 
 
The red gear assemblies and floodgates are all connected to levers. I will be linking them all to separate levers, but this may be over kill for your situation. 
The upshot of this linking is that you can turn the output power on and off without closing down the pumps, drain or fill the various component sections for maintainance, or selectively disable waterwheels (maybe shutdown one to build an extension?) 
As I say, it may be overkill. 
Although the system is self contained, and thus shouldn't be too subject to overflows, you should still take the usual precautions with the levers... in case of mad dwarf disease ;)

Should this design prove functional to specs, I'll move it to the article. 
Should this design prove utterly borked up, I'll report back with revised plans.

[[Special:Contributions/89.238.157.212|89.238.157.212]] 21:00, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Revision 1: 
It has been pointed out to me that 1 pump is unlikely to handle the flow generated. Extra pumps and wheels added to ensure flow.
Additionally, think out how you intend to start this contraption if you want to build one. The plans leave the pumps inaccessible (for good reason on my map), so you can't manually start them or dump water in to get it going. I plan to use a windmill for a starter motor. 
Oh, and I fixed the questionable math :p 
[[Special:Contributions/89.238.157.212|89.238.157.212]] 22:13, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Power

2010-06-29T11:32:53Z

Dangerous Beans: added pumps to list of power requirements

{{av}}
{{Quality|Tattered}}

{{L|Power}} is used to drive devices that perform tasks normally done by dwarves, such as {{L|pump}}ing {{L|water}} using a {{L|screw pump}} or {{L|mill}}ing certain types of {{L|food}} into {{L|flour}} at a {{L|millstone}}. Power is produced by {{L|windmill}}s and {{L|water wheel}}s.
==Power requirements==
*{{L|Axle}}: (1) per tile (also counts for vertical)
*{{L|Gear assembly}}: (5)
*{{L|Millstone}}: (10)
*{{L|Pump}}: (10)

==Power transfer==

Power can be transferred between devices using {{L|gear assembly|gear assemblies}} and {{L|axle}}s. Gear assemblies take up a single tile and connect power to any device within the six orthogonally adjacent tiles (north, south, east, west, above, below). Gear assemblies are best used for moving power through right-angles. For example, they can be built as bases for windmills to move power out sideways along an axle.

Because of the high power use of gears assemblies (5), axles are more appropriate and convenient to build when transferring power across horizontal or vertical distances. An axle uses (1) power for every tile of power transfer. An axle 5 tiles long will use (5) power. Axles can be directly attached to windmills, waterwheels and screw pumps in order to provide power.

Devices that use power are also capable of transferring it. Adjacent screw pumps will transfer power between themselves. The only way to prevent this is to leave a tile gap between devices, or move them diagonally from each other.

==Frozen Components==
Machine components can freeze. This blocks the entire machinery.
When you look at a component using 'q' you see if the component is 'frozen' or if it's "frozen elsewhere"

v0.31 Talk:Item quality

2010-06-25T03:21:34Z

Dangerous Beans:

Had a Talented stonecrafter turn out a no-quality mug - so that math has changed.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:33, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I thought mugs didn't have quality levels. unless thats a new feature, you could just be unlucky, toady said a long time ago that even a dabbler has a chance of creating a masterpiece, so maybe it works backwards...hmmm... or I could be entirely wrong. [[Special:Contributions/24.255.86.193|24.255.86.193]]
:Wrong.

Worked out the multipliers based on my weapon stockpile. I used the info from the value page and iron material page, do if they are wrong then the multipliers are out. I used a base of 1260 for the serrrated discs and a base of 220 for the picks. if someone could clean up the formatting and double check the numbers that would be great [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 03:21, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Item quality

2010-06-25T03:21:22Z

Dangerous Beans:

Had a Talented stonecrafter turn out a no-quality mug - so that math has changed.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:33, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I thought mugs didn't have quality levels. unless thats a new feature, you could just be unlucky, toady said a long time ago that even a dabbler has a chance of creating a masterpiece, so maybe it works backwards...hmmm... or I could be entirely wrong. [[Special:Contributions/24.255.86.193|24.255.86.193]]
:Wrong.

Worked out the multipliers based on my weapon stockpile. I used the info from the value page and iron material page, do if they are wrong then the multipliers are out. I used a base of 1260 for the serrrated discs and a base of 220 for the picks. if someone could clean up the formatting and double check the numbers that would be great) [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 03:21, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Item quality

2010-06-25T03:17:46Z

Dangerous Beans: added value multipliers, except for artifact. needs better formatting

{{av}}
{{Quality|Tattered}}

== Quality grades ==

All crafted items ({{L|furniture}}, {{L|armor}}, {{L|bolts}}, etc.) – but not intermediate materials ({{L|bar}}s, {{L|block}}s, etc. except {{L|cloth}}, which does have quality levels) – are bracketed by characters that show the quality of their craftsdwarfship. Dyeing also has a quality level, as does Decorating/Encrusting (with gems, leathers, cloth, etc). Prepared foods have quality levels. Alcohol has a hidden quality rating that controls the amount of happiness a dwarf gets from drinking it.

{|
! style="padding-right: 35px;" | '''Designation''' || style="text-align: left;" | '''Description''' || style="padding-right: 20px; padding-left: 15px; text-align: center;" | '''Value Modifier''' || style="text-align: center;" | ''' Damage / To-Hit / Armor Modifier'''
|-
|  Item Name || style="text-align: center;" | —     || 1x || style="text-align: center;" | || style="text-align: center;" |
|-
| -Item Name- || Well-crafted || 2x || style="text-align: center;" | || style="text-align: center;" |
|-
| +Item Name+ || Finely-crafted || 3x || style="text-align: center;" | || style="text-align: center;" |
|-
| *Item Name* || Superior quality || 4x ||style="text-align: center;" | || style="text-align: center;" |
|-
| ≡Item Name≡ || Exceptional || 5x || style="text-align: center;" | || style="text-align: center;" |
|-
| ☼Item Name☼ || Masterful || 12x || style="text-align: center;" | || style="text-align: center;" |
|-
| ''Unique name'' || Artifact || style="text-align: center;" | || style="text-align: center;" |
|}

==Changes to artifact weapons==
Toady just gave us a quote on weapon and armor quality, giving the game qualities of an "artifact" in DF2010:
<div style="width: 50em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee;">
#Value*10.
#Cannot be owned (can be equipped, you might have to do it explicitly though).
#Armor deflection roll has *3 roll modifier instead of the masterwork's *2.
#Same for melee attack and archery rolls.
#It looks like the artifact edges are the maximum edge for the material, which is also what a masterwork gets, so beyond a masterwork you'd just be getting the hit roll modifier.
#Things like artifact bone spears will likely be crap against steel, yeah. We don't have actual magical artifacts yet, and that's what would be required.
</div>

v0.31 Talk:Irrigation

2010-06-22T08:44:20Z

Dangerous Beans: /* Exact Calculation */

Just few notes:
* You can make farms in 1/7. There is no need to wait till it evaporates.
* River does not have to be above farm, it can be on same level. You just dig straight into it, with floodgate installed in the tunnel and lever pulled. [[User:RusAnon|RusAnon]] 20:26, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

== Farms in deeper water ==
My farmers do not seem to be bothered by my farms being 2/7 deep in water (poor water control). Anyone else seen similar? --[[Special:Contributions/131.111.254.209|131.111.254.209]] 10:26, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Dwarves can walk through 1/7 and 2/7 water covered tiles, but cannot work that actual tile, so no planting seeds or harvesting plants until the water evaporates. The plants aren't actually bothered by water depth, so they will mature despite being under water. --[[User:Darkstar|Darkstar]] 17:31, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

:Dwarves can create farms, plant, and harvest in 1/7 water. True in 40d and true in 2010. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 20:10, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

== Due to a bug ==

Can someone confirm if this is a bug? Otherwise, I'm assuming it's an intentional change and removing that comment.[[User:Studoku|Studoku]] 02:30, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:Yup. Baguhn confirmed it here: [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51951.msg1123336#msg1123336] --[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] 01:25, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
::Toady's comment on this was much more vague - rewording it. --[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] 05:36, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

== Designating a pond ==

I'm trying to follow the instructions for bucket irrigation, and I can't designate a pond either in the open space above the farm, or in the stone floor of the farm itself. The only place I seem to be able to designate a pond is over the brook, which makes no sense at all. Running 0.31.03. -[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 21:04, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
: Ah, I found the trick. I could only designate a one-tile pit/pond zone on the ramp leading down to the farm. I couldn't designate anything on the farm itself. After designating the pit/pond, you have to press [P] and [f] to toggle it from pit to pond. -[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 14:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

== Exceptional rating ==

As this article contains quite a lot of information, I've added the appropriate category, and the tileset criterion does not currently appear to be a requirement for Exceptional quality, I have moved this article up from Fine. --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 14:59, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
: Awesome. Thank you everyone who helped make this article.-[[User:Studoku|Studoku]] 03:16, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

== Exact Calculation ==

Why the exact calculation for the water above a farm? Why not flood a room, then pull a lever to open a hatch to a cistern below the farm? I have just tried this, seems to work fine. [[User:Fephisto|Fephisto]] 00:17, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:It is neater if you don't need to drain the room afterwards. Flooding it and then draining it is much easier though, though i personally run the excess water off the map or into the caverns. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 08:44, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

== Pond Method Not 100% Reliable ==

This needs more testing, but here are the steps I took and their results:

1) dug out a 5 x 9 room in stone (not soil) 
2) added doors to the room and locked them tight 
3) channeled two hole in the ceiling (evenly spaced) and marked them as ponds 
4) dwarves used water from a well to (slowly) fill the room

Initial results: watered tiles showed mud. Eventual results: only about 1/3 to 1/2 of the watered tiles contained mud (but all were marked as damp). I watched the process carefully after noticing this and it seems that occasionally the added water was “washing away” the piles of mud. Dwarves were not cleaning the mud away as the doors to the room were locked (not that they do this normally, but it was one of my initial thoughts). I don’t know exactly why this happened or what caused the mud to go away (except that I assume it was the water washing it away). It could be that my source of water (a well) was ‘clean’ water and not muddy water (as all water from wells is) but then I don't know where any of the mud came from if that's the case. Can anyone confirm this? (This was done in version 31.04) --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 16:20, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Cook

2010-04-25T00:57:20Z

Dangerous Beans: /* Lavish Meal */

==No Seeds==
In the previous version, cooking left no seeds for re-planting. Can this be verified for this version? --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 10:20, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
: I cooked an easy meal out of a wild strawberry and a prickle berry, and it produced no seed. [[User:Wccarrington|Wccarrington]] 22:09, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

==Lavish Meal==
In one fortress recently, it looked like I had a cook put more than four components into a lavish meal. I haven't seen it happen again (since I haven't been cooking lavish meals), so I didn't add it to the page- but that might be something worth looking for / verifying. --[[User:Vaniver|Vaniver]] 13:30, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
:Chances are that you've unintentionally encountered an old bug/exploit, which is explained in http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=49177.0 - whether that bug still exists in the new version, I don't know, but it was definitely in 40d. --[[User:Pushy|Pushy]] 11:18, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
::I think that bug has been fixed in DF2010. I attempted to use it to make a super artifact, but it just used the 3 items that the dwarf was after. So i think Vaniver encountered that bug in the previous version.
::I can also confirm that lavish meals use 4 items.
::[[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 00:56, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Cook

2010-04-25T00:56:37Z

Dangerous Beans:

==No Seeds==
In the previous version, cooking left no seeds for re-planting. Can this be verified for this version? --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 10:20, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
: I cooked an easy meal out of a wild strawberry and a prickle berry, and it produced no seed. [[User:Wccarrington|Wccarrington]] 22:09, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

==Lavish Meal==
In one fortress recently, it looked like I had a cook put more than four components into a lavish meal. I haven't seen it happen again (since I haven't been cooking lavish meals), so I didn't add it to the page- but that might be something worth looking for / verifying. --[[User:Vaniver|Vaniver]] 13:30, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
:Chances are that you've unintentionally encountered an old bug/exploit, which is explained in http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=49177.0 - whether that bug still exists in the new version, I don't know, but it was definitely in 40d. --[[User:Pushy|Pushy]] 11:18, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
::I think that bug has been fixed in DF2010. I attempted to use it to make a super artifact, but it just used the 3 items that the dwarf was after. So i think Vaniver encountered that bug in the previous version.
I can also confirm that lavish meals use 4 items.
[[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 00:56, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Tower-cap

2010-04-15T08:14:10Z

Dangerous Beans:

==Prerequisites==
Is it necessary to have uncovered some of the underground for tower-caps to start growing? -[[User:Goffrie|Goffrie]] 20:46, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Looks like it. Muddied an area of a bit over 2000 tiles, and after 2 seasons none have grown. Edit: 1 year on, no tower caps. Definately need to uncover something.

:Yep, you need to have hit a cavern. I'm 3 seasons in, have breached a cavern and have tower caps and shrubs growing in underground :soil near a brook. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 08:12, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Tower-cap

2010-04-15T08:13:03Z

Dangerous Beans:

==Prerequisites==
Is it necessary to have uncovered some of the underground for tower-caps to start growing? -[[User:Goffrie|Goffrie]] 20:46, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Looks like it. Muddied an area of a bit over 2000 tiles, and after 2 seasons none have grown. Edit: 1 year on, no tower caps. Definately need to uncover something.

Yep, you need to have hit a cavern. I'm 3 seasons in, have breached a cavern and have tower caps and shrubs growing in underground soil near a brook. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 08:12, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Tower-cap

2010-04-15T08:12:49Z

Dangerous Beans: /* Prerequisites */

==Prerequisites==
Is it necessary to have uncovered some of the underground for tower-caps to start growing? -[[User:Goffrie|Goffrie]] 20:46, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Looks like it. Muddied an area of a bit over 2000 tiles, and after 2 seasons none have grown. Edit: 1 year on, no tower caps. Definately need to uncover something.

>Yep, you need to have hit a cavern. I'm 3 seasons in, have breached a cavern and have tower caps and shrubs growing in underground soil near a brook. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 08:12, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Titan

2009-07-19T05:51:37Z

Dangerous Beans:

Was not as bad as I expected. Received an "uninvited visitor". Engaged her with single wrestlers until she was over-exerted and passing out. (Took about six.) Then I sent 90% of my fortress after her, and she died quickly with no further casualties. [[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 13:43, 16 November 2007 (EST)

== Re: fat ==

Titans are not butcherable by dwarves, so I would assume that's why fat wasn't listed in the side box before. IReverting that change. Bones and skull are obtained from just letting the body rot, so it makes sense for them to be there. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 16:34, 18 January 2008 (EST)
: I agree with this decision to leave the value for fat as '-' because Titan's aren't butcherable. Maybe as an alternative '''n/a''' would be more appropriate? --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]
::If you don't list the fat, then you shouldn't list any of that, as it's 'butchering returns' and rotting isn't butchering. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:18, 18 January 2008 (EST)

== Dead in a cage trap? ==
I caught one in a cage trap after he passed through two weapon traps.
The cage then contained his corpse.
1: Did the weapons kill him or did the cage squish him?
2: (Less importantly) How do I get corpses out of my cage?
(Later Edit: Melting the cage deposits his corpse in the smelter building along with all the metal bars.)
[[User:Benitosimies|Benitosimies]] 06:43, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
: My guess is that he died from his wounds. [[User:Zardus|Zardus]] 02:29, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
:: I had a titan die after just walking through a couple of stone traps and from standing in a weapon trap after facing a locked door.--[[User:LordXaras|LordXaras]] 10:00, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
:::I had a titan die from ONE stonefall trap. ONE. They're...really not all that tough, are they? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 09:41, 14 January 2009 (EST)

==No bones?==
OK, I got my first titan. It dies, and leaves corpse, which decomposes in my refuse stockpile. Some time passes, I notice, that corpce disappeared. I check skulls and bones, and even totems... No titan bones or skull... OK, thinks me, maybe it got removed at a season change or whatever. Second titan comes, dies, rots. No bones or skull. WTF is going on there?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 02:49, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

==Single Man==

I love how the dwarves stay inside order does very little except spam announcements, one untrained markdwarf runs out without a weapon or armor, attacks the titan and ten seconds later walks away with no wounds and a dead titan on the ground behind him, 15 days after a siege...

AND THEN IT CRASHES!

==Weak==
Is it just me, or are these really weak? I had one rock up, along with some migrants. I decided to use my normal strategy of "stay inside and drink booze until they wander into the traps", except the migrants were too slow and got caught by the titan. The titan spends the next few in game days trying to strangle a dwarf, at which point I get bored and order all the other migrants who are still sitting around outside to attack the titan. They bludgeon the titan to death with their beards, before running off the the booze stockpile. Net losses, 1 dwarf.
Is it just me, or are these the weakest 'mega'-beast (except maybe that 3 legged hydra that was always falling over)? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 05:51, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Labor

2009-07-08T07:59:36Z

Dangerous Beans:

This looks like as good a page as any for this question - what the hell do I have to do to get my dwarves to actually recover a wounded dwarf? I had one dwarf take that job after like a week of the poor guy laying there, but canceled it to sleep when he was 3/4 of the way there. Another week has gone by and still no one has gone out to get him. I've got dwarves sitting around doing nothing with no job but health care active. I even drafted a dwarf, stationed him out there, then undrafted him while right next to the wounded dwarf - he just wandered away with *no job* all the way back to the meeting hall. ARRRG! --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 23:56, 7 December 2008 (EST)
:This may be a foolish question (especially since you've mentioned someone tried and then headed off to sleep), but do they have somewhere to take him? (As in, is there a free bed somewhere?)
:If there is, there may be a problem if the bed is within a room's zone. According to [[Injury#Wounds_in_Fortress_Mode|this page]], beds not in any defined room are "hospital beds"... You could try building a couple of beds and not designating a room, or maybe designating a bedroom for the poor unfortunate? [[User:Emmanovi|Emmanovi]] 18:48, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:I've had real problems getting "recover wounded" jobs taken in a timely manner too. The only thing I can think of is that maybe another dwarf has already taken the job... but I think sometimes they just flat out don't do the deed for reasons I can't fathom.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:17, 8 December 2008 (EST)

::Part of the problem seems to be that its not added to the job queue list unless someone is actively doing it. Ie, if you hit (j) it should show all currently queued jobs, active and not. When the one dwarf took the job, it added 'Recover Wounded' to the job list, but when he canceled to sleep it was *removed from the job list* instead of listed as inactive. Since there is a profound difference between being on that list and being ordered by you (ie, marking an item to be dumped doesn't mean anything until its actually put on that queue - similarly, dwarves won't recognize an item's existence outside a stockpile while its currently 'tsk'ed for a stockpile, which means in the job list, but will acknowledge and target it if it isn't on the job list to be moved to a stockpile or dumped), this may be part of the issue - dwarves actually don't know someone needs recovering because there's no job on the list waiting to be done. Anyway, I spend a lot of time checking the (j)ob listing to see where there are delays when my queue gets backlogged, so I know no one else was doing it, because it wasn't even showing up there.

::He certainly had a bed available - his own. So that wasn't the problem. And dwarves in the current version refuse to use beds not in an available room unless no such bed is available. Ie, they prefer their own bed (and will be recovered to it). If they don't own one, they'll prefer and be recovered to a barracks bed. I have never seen an unzoned bed used after having sufficient other beds in zoned areas, despite having 7 unzoned beds in my fortress. When he was finally recovered, he was returned to his own room.

::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 00:33, 9 December 2008 (EST)
==Consoler skill==
I've noticed that dwarves taking advantage of the consoler skill will have the job Attend Meeting and the consoler has Conduct Meeting. Can anyone else verify? --[[User:Rabdsquirlz|Rabdsquirlz]] 19:15, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
:Once the economy kicks in, then the attend meeting/conduct meeting can accomplish various things (work requests, complaints, etc). I've notice the consoler skill in my mayor but not in fortress manager (or in the dwarfs complaining). Also, it could depend on the personality traits.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 21:56, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
== Child Labour ==

I added <s>the fact</s> that children can do work in masonry. I have tested it two times now; if I set a mason's workshop to "children only" (through assigning it to specific dwarves), I can get a child to work on a door, throne, etc. I cannot get them to do it in a carpenter's workshop.

This might be influenced by the fact that I had all my dwarves detailing floors, possibly resulting in a liking for working with stone; ie. could be related to the fact that they aren't "dabbling" in the areas of carpentry, etc. [[User:Chess123mate|Chess123mate]] 18:59, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

:Just to make sure, you aren't using something like Dwarf Companion, are you? --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 20:02, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::Oops... didn't realize that possibility; thanks for telling me about it. I used Dwarf Manager v0.3 to quickly set all dwarves to masonry and stone detailing, and that included children + babies. Sure enough, de-activating their labours in Dwarf Manager made them stop working right after they finished their current tasks. Didn't know Dwarf Manager could be used to cheat. Oh well... (I reverted my edit)[[User:Chess123mate|Chess123mate]] 22:59, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

== Default Labours ==
Is it possible to change the default labours? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 07:59, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Wood cutter

2009-07-08T07:48:39Z

Dangerous Beans: /* Wood cutter militia */

==Wood cutter militia==
Would it be an advisable strategy to make every dwarf a woodcutter? That way they would all carry axes... [[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 12:09, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:I believe this method has been tried in the 2D version with good results (forget by whom, unfortunately).[[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 15:15, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:If you've got the supplies on hand to give every dwarf an axe, want to be able to do on the spot conscription in emergencies, and don't have a standing milita, then I suppose it's probably a good plan. If any of those are false, I'd say it's more hassle than needed. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 20:00, 5 January 2008 (EST)

::Civilians will still fight with an axe if they're carrying one, so it would make them better able to defend themselves against the occasional dangerous creature. I imagine the most annoying thing is that they'll all stream outdoors to chop down trees if you designate any. I've never tried it, personally. The new versions seem much less dangerous than the old ones: sieges don't happen until late in the game, and I believe there aren't any spontaneous "raids" from the cave river, chasm, etc.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:14, 6 January 2008 (EST)

::I usually do this. I make all the dwarfs I don't care about woodcutters (and furnace operators, tanners, and anything else where skill doesn't matter). It is useful for dealing with Kobolds, and as a last ditch horde approach vs goblins, but it does take a lot of effort.
It also allows you to piss off elves at an amazing rate [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 07:48, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

==Tree Choice==
Is it just me, or do the wood cutters work from the outside-in when it comes to chopping trees? It seems like every time I designate a large area for tree cutting, they ignore all of the tree right next to my fortress and instead decide to chop one halfway across the map. Either that or it's just random enough that I'm only noticing these annoying exceptions... -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:40, 3 September 2008 (EDT)
:I think they use the same logic as for digging, which does not prefer to closest. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 13:57, 3 September 2008 (EDT)
::It uses the same logic as plant gathering, which to me looks like "columns" of 10-15 going left to right. [[User:JuliusC|JuliusC]] 14:01, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Dwarven syrup

2009-05-24T07:39:30Z

Dangerous Beans:

Does Dwarven syrup have [[Quality]]?--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 06:21, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
:There is no visible quality. It could have an invisible quality like booze, but my guess is that like most intermediate materials it has no quality. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 07:39, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

40d:Pressure plate

2009-04-19T05:41:01Z

Dangerous Beans:

'''Pressure plates''' work somewhat like [[lever]]s, but instead of being actively toggled, they're activated by the weight of something on them.

Pressure plates are not configured during use, but upon placement. While placing a pressure plate, you can configure it to trigger when the following things are on it:

* [[Water]]/[[Magma]] - choose minimum and maximum levels
* [[Creatures]] - choose minimum and maximum [[size]]; creatures of the size selected will be listed as example. You can pick whether your own citizens will trigger the plate or not. Friendly NPCs (traders ect) count as civilians.

Pressure plates default to toggleable, where they send an On signal when the determined weight is upon them and send an Off signal when it's released. Pressing {{k|o}} will change them to one-use mode, where upon being activated, they do their work then deconstruct themselves, ceasing to operate altogether.

Pressure plates can be linked to all the same objects levers can. The effects are listed in the [[Lever]] page.

A toggleable [[trap]] may prove useless when there is a large amount of invaders walking back and forth over it, as there will not be enough time for it to activate before it is switched again. Berserk dwarves will set off pressure plates.

== Permanent Effect Pressure Plate System ==

It is possible to hook a toggleable pressure plate up to a device which makes its effect permanent until a lever is flipped. One way to do that is to build a water-sensing pressure plate in a 1x1 room, link that to your [[trap]] (a drawbridge, for example), build a hatch above it, link the hatch to the original pressure plate outside, and then put water on the hatch. When an enemy steps on the pressure plate, the hatch opens, the water falls onto the other pressure plate (water-sensing pressure plate), and it raises the drawbridge.

To make it resettable, you can use [[pump]]s controlled by a lever or by [[dwarf]]-power to move the water back to where it started. You can also build a flood-gate next to the water-sensing pressure plate (linked to a trigger obviously) and have the water flow and spread-out into a room where it can evaporate, however, water in a 1x1 tile will not require a lot of room to evaporate.

You can use this pressure plate system as an inverted trigger system. In otherwords, a lever that controls the permanent-effect pressure plate system can be flipped from ''off'' to ''on'' and subsequently trigger a trap or mechanism from ''on'' to ''off'' as a result, and vice versa. It depends on the water level settings used for the water-sensing pressure plate:
* '''3 to 7''' - Normal, on is on and off is off
* '''0 to 2''' - Inverted, subsequent state is opposite the main trigger

The water-sensing pressure plate can be set to trigger for water levels '''0 to 2 or 3 to 7''' because if the room above is filled to the brim with water, then the 1x1 room will fill-up to level 7 quickly and when opening the floodgate or pumping it out will drop to level 2 or below quickly.

:Shortcut {{k|b}}-{{k|T}}-{{k|p}}
:Components used: [[Mechanism]]

==Common procedures==
===Closing a floodgate when submerged===

For this example, say we want to close a [[floodgate]] when a reservoir reaches a depth of 5.

* Build the pressure plate, set to activate under water ({{key|w}}) from 0 ({{key|a}}, {{key|s}}) to 4 ({{Key|z}}, {{key|x}}). Make sure it is set to reset ({{key|o}}) (The default is auto-reset and does not need to be changed{{version|0.28.181.40d}}, you'll know it's set because the screen will read 'Resets').
* Place the floodgate
* Connect a lever to the floodgate, and open it.
* Optionally remove the lever.
* Connect the pressure plate to the floodgate.
* Allow the pressure plate to be submerged.

The floodgate should close a few seconds after the water reaches a depth of 5 or more, and open again when the depth falls to 4 or less.

It's worth noting that the reaction time of the pressure plate-floodgate system is quite large - the reservoir may overflow before the floodgate shuts. In order to prevent this (for example, when building a [[well]] filled from a [[river]] or brook), build a large run-off pool. This allows the gate enough time to close, and the water will instead continue to spread out instead of overflowing, as it would have in a smaller pool.

{{Buildings}}

[[Category:Traps]]

40d Talk:Pressure plate

2009-04-19T05:39:12Z

Dangerous Beans: /* Caravan/Diplomat Trigger? */

Approximately how long after a pressure plate is stepped on will it's effects happen?
For instance, I have a pressure plate. Two squares away is a pit trap linked to the plate. Will that work at all?--[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 22:50, 7 November 2007 (EST)

:Well, consider the fact that different creatures move at different speeds, the trap may be too fast or too slow for them, or it might be just right, you can't be sure until you test it. Have some captured goblin run through it and have a cage trap a little further in case they make it through alive. If i were you, I would make at least 2 tile long pit trap. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 23:28, 25 February 2008 (EST)

::The higher quality your mechanisms are, the faster they work, or so the rumor goes. --[[User:Chrispy|Chrispy]] 13:49, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

:::That rumor holds no merit with bridges. Yes, I counted the frames. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:47, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

== More detailed instructions? ==

Might be worth adding to the article instructions on common operations with pressure plates. For example, how do you use a plate to close a floodgate? Does the plate open, close or toggle the gate? Should it be set to activate when the water/magma level is low or high? etc. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:37, 27 November 2007 (EST)
:Heh. Just figured it out. Is it correct? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 17:00, 27 November 2007 (EST)

== Do pressure plates work with civilians? ==

I have the setup mentioned on the page, to make a Pressure plate semi-permanent, however, even though the plate is set to minumum dwarven weight, maximum "any" weight, and so civilians trigger the plate.. it won't make the hatch I connected it to set to "open". I've remade it twice and Dan (the dwarf on the plate) is getting thirsty from standing on and off the plate all day.
So is this a big of some sorts where regular civilians cant trigger pressure plates? If it is, it should be tested by someone else and mentioned on the page. --[[User:Emeralddragon2|Emeralddragon2]] 19:17, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
:Aye, there is currently a bug where citizens can't trigger pressure plates, however pets can set off citizen plates. Hopefully this'll be fixed next game update. --[[User:Kyace|Kyace]] 20:42, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

== Resetting "One Use" Pressure Plates ==

Can you reset "one use" pressure plates or are they literally one use? The article seems to imply that one use plates can never be used again once used, which doesn't make sense to me. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 13:41, 1 July 2008 (EDT)
:I'm not 100% sure but I believe what it means is that to reset it you have to dismantle it and then rebuild it from scratch.--[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 23:18, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
On a similar note, do you regain the mechanism used in the plate when it deconstructs? or does it just disappear completely?--[[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 14:19, 29 December 2008 (EST)

== Caravan/Diplomat Trigger? ==

Do peaceful NPCs count as "civilians" for the purpose of pressure plates? Inquiring trapmasters must know. --[[User:Delcan|Delcan]] 21:53, 6 March 2009 (MST)
:I'm wondering the same thing, I guess I'll just have to finish my goblin dropper and find out :D. I'll edit the page when I know [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 04:26, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
:Friendly NPCs seem to be considered civilians. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 05:39, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

== TRAPAVOID and pressure plates ==

A bunch of orcs just ran right over my dwarven atomsmasher trap (pressure plates + bridge + all civilians get the fuck inside NOW) without triggering it. Apparently TRAPAVOID affects pressure plates, too. [[User:InsanityPrelude|InsanityPrelude]] 03:09, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Pressure plate

2009-04-19T04:26:33Z

Dangerous Beans:

Approximately how long after a pressure plate is stepped on will it's effects happen?
For instance, I have a pressure plate. Two squares away is a pit trap linked to the plate. Will that work at all?--[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 22:50, 7 November 2007 (EST)

:Well, consider the fact that different creatures move at different speeds, the trap may be too fast or too slow for them, or it might be just right, you can't be sure until you test it. Have some captured goblin run through it and have a cage trap a little further in case they make it through alive. If i were you, I would make at least 2 tile long pit trap. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 23:28, 25 February 2008 (EST)

::The higher quality your mechanisms are, the faster they work, or so the rumor goes. --[[User:Chrispy|Chrispy]] 13:49, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

:::That rumor holds no merit with bridges. Yes, I counted the frames. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:47, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

== More detailed instructions? ==

Might be worth adding to the article instructions on common operations with pressure plates. For example, how do you use a plate to close a floodgate? Does the plate open, close or toggle the gate? Should it be set to activate when the water/magma level is low or high? etc. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:37, 27 November 2007 (EST)
:Heh. Just figured it out. Is it correct? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 17:00, 27 November 2007 (EST)

== Do pressure plates work with civilians? ==

I have the setup mentioned on the page, to make a Pressure plate semi-permanent, however, even though the plate is set to minumum dwarven weight, maximum "any" weight, and so civilians trigger the plate.. it won't make the hatch I connected it to set to "open". I've remade it twice and Dan (the dwarf on the plate) is getting thirsty from standing on and off the plate all day.
So is this a big of some sorts where regular civilians cant trigger pressure plates? If it is, it should be tested by someone else and mentioned on the page. --[[User:Emeralddragon2|Emeralddragon2]] 19:17, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
:Aye, there is currently a bug where citizens can't trigger pressure plates, however pets can set off citizen plates. Hopefully this'll be fixed next game update. --[[User:Kyace|Kyace]] 20:42, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

== Resetting "One Use" Pressure Plates ==

Can you reset "one use" pressure plates or are they literally one use? The article seems to imply that one use plates can never be used again once used, which doesn't make sense to me. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 13:41, 1 July 2008 (EDT)
:I'm not 100% sure but I believe what it means is that to reset it you have to dismantle it and then rebuild it from scratch.--[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 23:18, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
On a similar note, do you regain the mechanism used in the plate when it deconstructs? or does it just disappear completely?--[[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 14:19, 29 December 2008 (EST)

== Caravan/Diplomat Trigger? ==

Do peaceful NPCs count as "civilians" for the purpose of pressure plates? Inquiring trapmasters must know. --[[User:Delcan|Delcan]] 21:53, 6 March 2009 (MST)
:I'm wondering the same thing, I guess I'll just have to finish my goblin dropper and find out :D. I'll edit the page when I know [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 04:26, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

== TRAPAVOID and pressure plates ==

A bunch of orcs just ran right over my dwarven atomsmasher trap (pressure plates + bridge + all civilians get the fuck inside NOW) without triggering it. Apparently TRAPAVOID affects pressure plates, too. [[User:InsanityPrelude|InsanityPrelude]] 03:09, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Immigration

2008-12-07T02:05:40Z

Dangerous Beans: /* Migrant caps */

==Multiple civs==
What information do we have about the relationship between immigration rate and the number of dwarven civs? Is there info? Is there a relation? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:35, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

==Comments regarding new version==
Don't know how much of this info is still valid. For example, the line "Notably, the incredibly useful Manager requires at least twenty dwarves." is a hold-over from the previous wiki. In fact, most of the noble-related info is outdated.
I'm going to edit out anything that I ''know'' to be wrong. Get rid of the wrong stuff, and we can start getting correct stuff in instead.[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:07, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:The validation abilities of the manager still only appear after you have 20 dwarfs. But you can access the screen before that happens. Don't know if this validation has any additional effect or if the managers even work before that.--[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 16:58, 8 November 2007 (EST)

::Yes, the manager will work just fine when you have less than 20 dwarfs. He will need an office if you have more than 20 dwarfs.--[[User:Tomato|Tomato]] 16:13, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

==migration vs location on world map==
I have a nagging sense from playing a year or two in a few different areas that the number of migrants is a bit more random now. I have one decently wealthy young outpost located far from it's civilization on the map which has gotten very few immigrants in the first two years. Perhaps with groups now moving on the overall map, it is more important to be close to your civilization's area so immigrant groups arrive more quickly and are less likely to get ambushed on the way? Pure conjecture on my part and not backed by any real evidence, but an interesting idea nonetheless. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 16:15, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Well, my first throw-away fortress got gigantic immigration crowds every single season. Then I abandoned, rerolled the world, and started a new fortress. It produces worlds more wealth than my first fortress, but I have only gotten one immigration wave on the second Spring, bringing my numbers to 24. I then received my second immigration on the start of the third Spring, bringing me up to 48 dwarves. I was very worried up until I got that first wave in the spring... I almost thought I was going to have to scrap the fortress and start again. For reference, I receive elf, human, and dwarf traders. No sieges yet. I have no deaths so far. It would seem that the MAXIMUM immigration amount is 24 for one season. [[User:FFLaguna|FFLaguna]] 23:33, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

::I've gotten 25 immigrants in one wave, but one of these was a child, which may ironically go into the 'pets' category rather than 'dwarf' category. Do children have parents when they come with immigrants? -Gotthard
::: I've had a family of four come in one wave-Husband and Wife and 2 children. The children were very sad when their mother got killed by a goblin. I also had a dwarf born from parents in my first immigration wave. Has anyone every had two dwarfs marry? Not arrive married but get married at your fort. Just wondering if it's possible. --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 18:22, 17 February 2008 (EST)
::::With this latest version release (0.27.176.38a), dwarves can indeed marry each other at your fortress. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 04:19, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:::::Just to confirm, I have to confirmed marriages at my fortress (these were both from my original seven dwarves) [[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 06:01, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
::::::Uh, this has been known since, like, version 0.27.176.38a. Did you not read that comment properly, much less check the date of it? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:57, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
::Update: On the summer of my third year, I finally received some migrants! Woooo. I received about 12 immigrants. [[User:FFLaguna|FFLaguna]] 01:35, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

::Happend to me sometimes to, you have to wait for immigrants sometimes. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 16:58, 8 November 2007 (EST)

==clarification on editing ini file==
One point of conflict in this article. It states that once the immigration limit is reached normal immigration is ceased. It then encourages a method of editing the init file to curb immigration. It says to just reedit it when you want more dwarfs. In my findings when I use this tactic as soon as my limit is hit I get no more dwarfs, even after reediting the init file to a higher number.

The section where it says "A '''migrant''' is a member of a wave of immigration." is really obvious and there's no other information there. I think it should be removed, or at least made part of the general information. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]]

--[[User:Angus|Angus]] 18:17, 17 February 2008 (EST)
==Talk Page from Migrant==
This page should be merged with the page on immigration. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 01:47, 23 November 2007 (EST)
:Agreed, and done --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:28, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

I felt this edited out info is worth keeping here as hint for further investigations.

=== Immigration Triggers ===

Migrants appear in waves when the total wealth of the fortress (view by hitting 'Z') reaches:

* 5,000
* 10,000
* 100,000
* 140,000
* 165,000 (?)
* 300,000
* 340,000

== Equipment ==

(This should probably go on the Migrant talk page, but this page seems to be busier)

Will an immigrant always arrive with the necessary equipment to perform his skills? ie, will a hunter always arrive with a crossbow, armour and bolts? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:08, 8 November 2007 (EST)

:nope, sometimes you get an immigrant who doesn't have the right equipment. (Had woodworkers with carpentry and wood cutting skills withouth an axe). --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:46, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::I think it depends a bit on how multi-skilled they are: if he had been a [[woodcutter]] he would have had an axe but as he was a woodworker... well, carpenters need a workshop not an axe.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:21, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

== Combat Immigrants ==

I have yet to have any of my immigrants to show up as military types, even though I've at least produced crossbows in every fort I've run so far. Had one fort reach it's 6th year and have crafted every type of weapon available without a single dwarf showing up with combat skills. Anyone verify that this is still true? --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 04:49, 19 November 2007 (EST)

You were just unlucky. I have forged some hammers and axes and a hammer and a axe soldier showed up at my fort [[Doler 12]], 18:11 19 November 2007 (GMT+1)

:Did you maybe create a military and train dwarves in hammers and axes? --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 14:19, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:: The one and only military migrant (a Marksdwarf) I got so far came after I had someone advance to Champion level. Is this just a coincidence or have other people noticed this? --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 23:44, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:::No. I made crossbows and got marksdwarves immigrants and my best soldier was a novice crossbowman. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 06:55, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

== Immigration Rate ==

Has anyone noticed there seems to be a logarithmic curve associated with immigration? In the beginning, it doesn't matter what I do to keep my wealth down (including only building 7 beds and a small wooden 'shack' to put them above ground, and not mining out any squares) I seem to get a ton of immigrants. However, going from 1.1M to 1.4M resulted in only 5 immigrants or so the whole year. Either there might be a 'minimum' baseline for forts (and 7 isn't it, seems closer to 25-40 or so, doesn't matter what your wealth is you will grow to that) or it is logarithmic. I don't think it is related to deaths in my large fortress, I've had one elite marksdwarf die to a hydra, and 6-7 more (in 6 years) to goblins, moods, etc. I don't have the economy, perhaps this slows it down around 100? --Gotthard 11:18, 10 December 2007 (EST)
:Heh, I'm about to test that: my first winter killed six of my dwarves so we'll see how many migrants I get. I'm currently outnumbered by dogs about 10:1... unfortunately I also lost my only mare so I've got two male horses, may as well kill both of them as soon as I need a quick snack! [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:05, 11 January 2008 (EST)

== Military immigrants without weapons ==

I started a game with just one dwarf. The first immigration wave, in the next spring, I got a recruit as one of my immigrants. This recruit had NO military skills, and no armor or weapons. What confuses me is that I had never created any weapons. The only remotely military thing I ever made was a single leather armor. If it matters, I hadn't created hardly anything else before that point either--a bed, basic furniture, less than ten stone crafts, no cooking, and that armor. Anyone else seen this? It throws a kink into the "weapons bring military dwarves" thing. Oh, and I also have pits as a feature in this map if it matters (as yet unrevealed). --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 09:28, 12 January 2008 (EST)
: Did the recruit have any skills? Otherwise he's basically the same as a peasant. How many dwarfs were in your military at the time. That might also have been a factor. --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 23:47, 19 February 2008 (EST)

== Seasons and Immigration ==

I've had immigrants arrive in spring, summer and fall but never winter. Has anyone had immigrants arrive in winter? Or does whether immigrants arrive in winter depend on your fort's climate? [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 22:45, 29 January 2008 (EST)
: I just had a group of dwarves migrate during winter right after reading this. I am in a warm climate though. What was strange was in the following Summer I had another wave of migrants. Two in one year. --[[User:Angus|Angus]] 23:49, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::Multiple waves of immigration isn't unusual, I often get migrants in both autumn AND spring.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:19, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

I just had an immigrant wave arrive mid-summer in my first year. 6th Malachite, to be specific.--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 15:07, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

== Headline text ==

Currently, my record is 32 dwarfs, 8 kids and pets. anybody else beaten that?
--[[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 07:36, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

:Well, if you are sure of that, you should add it to the article. While most people seem to get smth like 20 to 25 ( my max being 19+pets), no one knows if ther's a limit and how high it is, so.. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:52, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

::i regularly get 24 exactly, but on a few cases ive gotten more, most being 28, with lots of kids -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 14:28, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

== Strange stuff ==

Once I had a leatherworker who came onto the map and as soon as he appeared, there was a message
'dwarf has been possessed'
Strange, has this happenedto any once? Was he possessed before he came to my Fortress? --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 16:20, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:That once happened to someone in the 2D version... tis quite simple. When a fey mood occurs, a random dwarf gets it. As it so happened, this dwarf had recently immigrated to your fortress. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:37, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::Interesting, can't say I've come across that particular bug, although I did come across an item with no name! It was just called a "Large ." --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:20, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

:::It isn't a bug. The fey immigrant, not the "Large ." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:10, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

: I seem to get this a lot - the wealth embodied by all those new clothes on the backs of the immigrants might push the fortress wealth over a level needed to trigger a strange mood, perhaps. Then it's luck of the draw whether it strikes a settled dwarf or a new immigrant. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:50, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

== Lone Dwarf ==

"A migrant has arrived."
For some reason I only got one migrant this time! Weird! --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:28, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

== Migrant caps ==

The cap is set in my init.txt file as 200, but in one of my fortresses I got well over 200 (something like 225). Is there anything that could cause this other than a straight-up glitch? --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 23:04, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

:The population cap is only checked to see if another migrant wave is allowed. It is entirely possible, often likely, that the actual number of migrants in the wave pushes the population over the value set. IIRC, pregnancies will also bypass the cap. The softness of this limit is a well known... feature... :) --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 00:13, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

:However I had mine set to 50, had a wave of immigration that pushed it from <50 to 59, and have just gotten another load of migrants. Is there some hard coded minimum population? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 21:05, 6 December 2008 (EST)

== Migrant skills ==

Does the amount of workshops you have for a skill affect how many immigrants have that skill? I've had no dyer's shop for a really long time, and I notice I have only one dyer, whereas I have plenty of dwarves with every other skill. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 21:19, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
: I don't think so, because I always get hordes of dyers, cheese makers, and woodburners, even when I don't have any of the appropriate workshops. I really miss the days of getting miners, siege operators, growers, and masons.--[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 16:59, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

== "Your fortress attracted no migrants this season." ==

I'm playing a Haunted fortress on a volcano for the first time, and I got this message in my first summer. It seemed odd because I almost never get migrants during the first summer, but this is the first time that fact was announced. Is this a tweak in the new version (181.40c), which I just downloaded today, or is it because I'm in a haunted map? I got the message again in the fall. --[[User:Ookpik|Ookpik]] 17:05, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
:lots of people dying discourages immigration, as well as certain import/export/mining and immigration map factors, as far as i can tell.--[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 21:04, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
:Id say its a new feature of the game, since it didn't occur before that version.--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 15:08, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
::I noticed an extension of this- I got a message just now, all in red, saying "Migrants refused to journey to such a dangerous fortress this season." Ive been raided near constantly by goblins over the last year of this game, so maybe that influences immigrants now? .--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 13:47, 22 September 2008 (EDT)
:::I'd imagine it's due to the number of recent deaths, specifically. [[Immigration#How_can_I_curb_immigration.3F|That's covered in the article]]. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 13:11, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
:^_^ I got a new message about immigration recently. "Some migrants have decided to brave this terrifying place, knowing it may be their tomb". Seriously, I get very few deaths normally... this last season was bad because I've been building roads to try to entice the king, so I have more dwarves ranging far from the fortress. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 22:00, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::"No one even considered making the journey to such a cursed death-trap this season." Can you tell I just breached the [[Glowing pits|Fun stuff]]? 150 Dwarfs dead in less then a season.[[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:09, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
:::I don't think it takes much... losses of about 4-5 dwarfs over the course of a year resulted in my getting both of the above messages about cursed death traps and probable tombs. Maybe it was the horrific way in which they happened... the Duchess's consort was ripped limb from limb right in front of the forest by an ambushing goblin party and I lost a few other people to goblin raids where they had every single body part broken and mangled before they died (sometimes a high toughness is a bad idea... as Jame said in ''Godstalk'', it's a good idea to always have the option of dying). -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:46, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
:: I've got many time this message : "Migrants were too nervous to make the journey this season.".
I don't really know where does this come from... facts that can explain that are :

* I've been raided many times (something like 3-4 ambushes a year, and it's my 4th year) by goblin ambushers, and have been besieged by humans. But the last ambushers hadn't killed many dwarves (1 dwarf and 2 kittens last time).
* I settled on cold (north) and freezing (south, my fortress being approximatively in the north) biomes. The river in the south part of the map is always frozen, and the north murky pools freezes something like 6 months a year.
* Merchants (human, that's what caused the siege, but also -maybe- dwarves) has been killed during ambushes. I don't remember how many, but it may have scared the mountainhomes.

Also, immigration seems to be much slower than in my precedents forts (one wave per year or so, when it's not cancelled by the above message), and I noticed that I haven't received caravans since a year or so (maybe related with the above statement about merchants deaths). -[[User:Timst|Timst]] 12:58, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

==No immigration?==
I just played a game with no immigration. There were no dwarven civilizations nearby. How did that even happen? --[[User:Fringd|Fringd]] 22:10, 8 November 2008 (EST) (Moved from article page --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 08:23, 9 November 2008 (EST))

40d Talk:Siege

2008-12-05T05:42:16Z

Dangerous Beans: /* Goblin Morale */

===Trigger?===
Just noticed that I got my first (Goblin) siege at 100000 wealth. Anyone else confirm that this is the trigger? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 00:06, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:I had my first goblin siege at about 600k wealth. They sieged me at 15 levels above ground level, where I had a stairway to my fortress. They loitered around for a season and left. [[User:Kaivosukeltaja|Kaivosukeltaja]] 07:31, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::Thanks. I removed my addition from the article. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:35, 9 November 2007 (EST)

I think part of the trigger is killing a Goblin. I'd captured several Goblin thieves, but it was only after I'd dispatched them that I was besieged. So, (wealth > certain amount) and (has killed Goblins) maybe? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 23:09, 12 November 2007 (EST)

Actually, according to Toady (http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000033), Goblins will start sieging now roughly around 80 dwarves and/or some odd amount of wealth.

:I had 3 goblin snatchers show up at a population of 40 dwarves and created wealth of 63,793 (v0.27.169.33g). --[[User:Frond|Frond]] 22:17, 16 January 2008 (EST)

I think that the trigger amount is off by a bit- I just received my first siege, by goblins, at 57 population and about 411,000 wealth. --[[User:Linktoreality|Linktoreality]] 04:58, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Troll squads ==

I had 3 troll squads of exactly 8 trolls in each during a siege. Had a goblin king that time but no beak dogs. Can it be that no beak dogs in goblin civ=better chance for trolls?
:I been sieged at least half a dozain time in my current fortress, and I've never encountered trolls or anything bigger than skilled goblins. In my latest siege, all the goblins are specialised in something but I have no trolls or wolves or whatever to show for. Any idea on this behavior? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:16, 26 November 2007 (EST)
::Apperently they haven't access to any chasm biome for trolls and to whatever biome for beak dogs.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:42, 26 November 2007 (EST)

== Mounts ==

Woe betide those who anger humans. I added a second human race with [BABYSNATCHER] instead of [SIEGER] for barbarian raiding action. When they sieged, every last one of them was riding a horse. When I approached the buggers kept running away and going all Parthian shot on me, too. It was pretty bad ass. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:23, 10 November 2007 (EST)

== Still bugged? ==

Are sieges still bugged in 33b? If someone knows for certain, could they add the version number to the statement in the article? Ta. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 19:52, 18 November 2007 (EST)

i just got siege and i think the bug is still there cause just redownloaded it for erroring reasons...the goblins just sit there and wait for something...
im wondering if (thanks to the bug) the goblins well just die of thirst or something?? or well just o away?

:Yup, still bugged. Toady needs to rewrite the siege AI, 'tis not a simple bug. Goblins will go away on their own after a while, but that beats all the fun. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 15:04, 21 November 2007 (EST)
::Some people suggested on the forum building siege engines near the golin groups and fire to them to death. I'm trying to do just that in my current game. Alternatively, I think there is a flag in the init file where you can disable sieges. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:33, 21 November 2007 (EST)
:Has anyone looked into changing the raws for the goblins to have them a similar behavior to werewolves and other predatory creatures? They roam around the map looking for something to kill, and while they might not stay together in a squad, or move toward your base directly, at least they would do *something*... if it works. Any thoughts? --Gotthard 12:24, 30 November 2007 (EST)

:As of 33g I think they're still somewhat bugged. They will charge but if they find something to attack, it seems like their AI turns off and they stop on the spot. So I guess as long as you don't give them anything to attack on the way to your front gate, they will work fine. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 22:45, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Siege as a blockade ==

"A siege is a military blockade of a city or fortress with the intent of conquering by force or attrition, often accompanied by an assault. The term derives from the Latin word for "seat" or "sitting."[1] A siege occurs when an attacker encounters a city or fortress that refuses to surrender and cannot be easily taken by a frontal assault." --wikipedia

A siege isn't just a blind charge into your cage traps, either.
[[User:Moller|Moller]] 14:38, 3 December 2007 (EST)

My last few goblin seiges, have been actual seiges, instead of running around into my traps. The first of 3 squads ran in, about half fell victim to my traps, then ran, then the other 2 squads have been just waiting outside my fort, for 3 months and counting. [[User:OmegaX]] 15-September-2008
:Just to check, you didn't do anything that would break their pathfinding like triggering cave-ins, locking doors, or raising bridges? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:41, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
They left after a season, but there were no pathfinding issues, the fort was open, just waiting for them. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 21:10, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

==Best way to counter sieges?==
So far, the best way I've found to counter sieges is to create a line of traps all around the map. You can't build them just next to the border of the map, only 5 or 6 squares away from it... However, goblins still walks around a little and often hit the traps. It's hard to create enough casualties in this way to stop them, but they hardly ever leave without giving me free stuff and free kills. :)
Alternatively, setting up balistas or catapults in front of them and firing away is also very rewarding. Too bad it's almost impossible to do without forbidding your dwarves from fetching everything outside, which usually mean that they'll get in the way even if you manage to forbid everything in time. I wish there was a way to allow military dwarves to operate siege engines...--[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:47, 3 December 2007 (EST)

: I agree. Traps are a great thing. I also save VERY often, and when a siege occurs, I will 'force quit' and revert to a previously saved game. Then I make all my dwarves soldiers and give them time to pick up their equipment. This has proven very successful.--[[User:Keesto|Keesto]] 23:46, 5 September 2008 (EDT) Later...I have found that traps are the best/only defense. I have set up about 200 cage traps around the map, and also 20 stone fall traps around the entrances. Soldiers are only useful to me now when I release the goblins from their cages- in confined spaces -for a mass slaughter. Very satisfying.

== Human Leader / Mercenary? ==

I got my third or fourth goblin siege in the current game, and they arrived with a Human Spearmaster in one of their squads. Anyone else got this? Is it worth mentioning in this page?
:Confirmed: third siege. One of invaders is Human Macelord. He is a best attraction at my zoo right now :). Think, i'll add this. Whoops... someone already has :)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:33, 16 January 2008 (EST)
::My roommate had one in a group of ambushers. He was wearing a human leather earring, so that's lovely ;) --[[User:FloodSpectre|FloodSpectre]] 20:04, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

== Nifty defense plan ==

On an unrelated note, I figured a pretty nifty way to kill a lot (or all) of a siege by making an outdoors gatehouse with marksdwarves on the battlements... except instead of making it face OUT, I make it face IN, so I let the enemy inside and they get totally annihilated, as they are shot as soon as they appear :)

Something like this:
<pre>
########
=bolts=#
######@#
+@# g
+@# g
g +@# <- goblins on ground floor come this way
+@# g
+@# g
######@# g
=bolts=#
########
</pre>
This work specially well again enemy shooters, they don't even get a chance to shoot back (and it seems it's nearly impossible to hit my dwarves on higher ground AND behind fortifications).

--[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 23:23, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I recently tried a system like that, where the entrance hall is two floors tall, and I have a marksdwarf barracks on the floor above. They shoot plenty of goblins, and of course I have about 60 stonefall traps there too. I watched laughing as 66% of the goblins thought "AAAH RUN AWAY" and they retreated like sissies :D --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 11:25, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Stealth Sieges ==

It seems that in the new version that sieges don't give announcements anymore. I was still getting my fortress together when one of my woodcutters was ambushed by 10 or so goblins. They proceeded to charge my fort and get killed by the merchants and dogs. Then like 30 seconds later the second wave appeared unannouced at my door. The merchants were in no shape to stand against them and the dogs were all dead. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 15:31, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:This sounds more like an [[Ambush|ambush]] than a siege. I've had four seemingly seperate goblin ambush squads all assault my fortress at the same time (four seperate "An ambush! Curse them!"s), each of which was a lot more dangerous than my first siege! -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:00, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== quote from toady, december 27 ==
(so maybe parts of it changed)

"Humans and elves will come some time after they are angry enough at you.

Kobolds will start sending thieves once your pop hits 20 or you've traded a bit (value 500) or you've produced a bit more (value 5000). If they successfully steal objects, they'll come back with more thieves, and if they continue to be successful, they'll bring (buggy) archers. The power of the next attack is based only on how many objects were stolen during the last raid. They'll start sending archers if three or more objects are stolen.[]..they can send as many as 17 thieves and 36 archers, but this is incredibly unlikely. If the stolen object number is five or more, they'll start sending important historical figures.

Goblins start sending kidnappers when your population has hit 50 or you have traded a bit or produced a bit more (5x the kobold numbers). Once your population hits 80, they'll start to send more serious attacks instead of kidnappers on occasion. The numbers sent during the serious attacks depend only on how many attacks you've been through. If they have mounts or monsters(trolls?), they'll start using them on the second attack, with multiple monster packs on the third. Important historical figures also come with the third attack, but master weapon users can come on the second. Important kidnappers come on the second kidnapping attempt.

All of this will be obsolete once I get the armies working properly on the world map, though there will still have to be some artificial mechanism in place to stop early forts from being wiped out."

:Good, then I shall start war with the elves because there are no goblins.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 18:22, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

== Human Sieges ==

I am, right now in v0.28.181.39b, being besieged by about 14 humans, one of which is on a horse carrying a bow. "An enemy is laying siege" or some such came up instead of the usual "A vile force of darkness has arrived". Even stranger is that they built ''A Campfire'' and are just milling about around it. There is a clear path straight into the heart of my fortress. There is no sign of war on the civ screen. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 09:21, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
 It's even worse than that! They're actually doing siege tactics - they sit in their camp until someone goes outside, at which point they all set off to kill that poor sot. Then they return to camp. If it's not outside, they don't care. They also don't seem to be affected by any of my traps. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 11:52, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
:just wait until the campfire has burned down and then they will move to the fortress as the goblins do. It might take a while, so no need for hurry. I only had two human sieges in my current fortress until now, but they seem to increase in numbers as the goblins do.
:*first year: ~10 humans, not mounted, campfire
:*second year: ~20 humans, 2 squads, mounted. 1 squad with campfire, the second one just waited and had no campfire. After a while, they moved to the fortress, but not both squads at once.

:In my case (v0.28.181.39c), they were affected by my 2 weapon traps. At least at the second siege when they were mounted, during the first one when they had no horses, I had no traps, so I don't know if this has an effect.

:The text of the human siege is "The enemy have come and are laying siege to the fortress"

: In my fort the human guild representative died and once a caravan was slaughtered by an ambush.
:[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 18:24, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

::now in the 3rd year, a human diplomat arrived instead of the next siege and he offers the following options:
::''Peace is calling out to us. How do you respond?''
::Enter: ''I hear her voice. Let us stop this war.''
::Space: ''We will drown her out with the screams of your dying. Begone.''

::As I'm a beginner, as far as wikis are concerned, it would be nice if someone could update the article.
::[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:34, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
:::I've added it in, although I'm also a n00b at this wiki stuff, and kept forgetting important stuff. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:22, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::::thanks. As there aren't many reports about human sieges right now, it is a good start. -[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 03:09, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

: I have also received a human siege (v0.28.181.39e). Accidentally had the merchant diplomat locked in my fort - he 'left unhappy' (but he and the caravan were otherwise unscathed.) First summer - 10 unmounted humans; second summer - 50 humans, all mounted. Their campfire died down in Fall - it is now mid-Winter and they still haven't entered my fort. Instead they ride their horses in circles outside my gate. I have tried to bait them with expendable dwarfs but they just take them out with crossbows. Dwarven caravan did not even attempt to come in the Fall; also, no goblins or kobolds have dared to raid during the siege. All in all, a pretty effective siege as I do not have yet a military capable of attacking. (3rd year of fort). By the way, when the first siege force arrived I had fewer than 80 dwarves.
:[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 21:27, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

My guild rep died somehow, not really sure what caused it, though my relations before that were fairly good with the humans, aside from a caravan seize once, and when they came back I gave them gifts and large profit margins. Anyways, now theres a seige, I dont see a campfire, but they're definately waiting, eventually they marched into my fort, AVOIDING all the non-cage TRAPS. Cage traps got a few, but they evaded my corridor with 20 weapon traps, and 40+ Stone-fall traps, all loaded and ready. Without a single injury. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 02:13, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

:: I remember something about the human merchants and/or guild representatives looking at traps when visiting the fortress, and making them useless against the human siegers. Great ! Now we have Human spies and diplomats, Goblins blitzkrieg, Kobold snipers and Elven commando. Can't wait for Elephant paratroopers and Giant cave spider artillery. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 16:21, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Operation Dumbo Drop and Starship Troopers?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:27, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

== Avoidable? ==

I just had my first siege in my current fortress, and happened to save right before it started, like 1 or 2 steps before. The goblins killed all of the dwarven caravan that they arrived with, so I reloaded and there was no siege. I haven't been very long in this no-siege alternative univers, so I want to know if it will happen slightly later, or if I have avoided it completely. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:39, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

I just got ambushed, with an elite bowman along with the group, nut definitely not as many goblins as the siege.this is kinda weird. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:48, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

== What about constructed walls? ==

The page says trolls will smash all buildings. But what about constructed walls? The Construction page says constructed walls/floors act as inert terrain objects. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 05:10, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
:[Building Destroyer]s like trolls ignore constructs like walls and floors, they only smash things like doors and bridges. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:22, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
::Ok, thanks. That was causing me some confusion. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 17:34, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

== Megabeasts ==

Could someone update my add-on about megabeasts? It was lacking info about them but it's pretty general right now. --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 16:30, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
:Could use an update, indeed! It's verified in the advanced world gen parameters that world generation stop is based on percentage of surviving megabeasts (default 80%), and that number can be modified when creating a world with advanced parameters (I myself typically lower it to 60%, in hopes of more roving hydras for my fortress to face). I would also write a few words about cage traps and the dangers they present to a fortress, as I once had a caged titan break out of his cage and lay waste to the inner sanctum of a fortress. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 17:55, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

== Mining ==

Is it possible for a human siege to mine into your base? I've played around in adventure mode and seen (and killed) a few human miners, so I was wondering if the humans were ever smart enough to bring one along and tunnel into your base. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 10:42, 9 November 2008 (EST)

Not yet, unfortunately. Rock walls and constructions of any type remain impervious. They can't fill in dry moats yet, either. Fortunately for the humans, a dwarf fortress can't survive indefinitely without imports, migrants, or fresh lumber, and human besiegers tend to be more cautious than goblins, so they can still endanger your survival indirectly. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 12:36, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:Currently my fortress is pretty well self sustaining, though due to pathfinding errors my dwarves refuse to take the inside stairs to my exploratory mining chamber. I'm at my population cap (130) and my food and drinks are fairly stable at 200 seeds, 500 alcohol, 600~700 prepared meals, and 300 plants. At the very least, I'm (very lucky to be) prepared for the next human siege (the first one was a group of pansies who managed to get killed without me noticing (long story short, I assigned my squads to a mountain near the humans for the high ground, and some crossbowdwarves went around the long way and shot their way through the humans (who didn't have any crossbowmen, at least not after the first volley of dwarven bolts) and left only a few for cleanup.

:Oh, did I mention my ''War [[Giant Eagle]]?'' The thing kicks MAJOR ass. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 16:53, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::You can't have a war giant eagle. Dogs are the only thing that can be trained to war animals. Brag if you like, we all do it, but don't lie. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:16, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::: I edited the raws to make it trainable. And don't say that can't be done, they tell you how to do it (for elephants, but still) on this very Wiki.[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 17:19, 9 November 2008 (EST)

::::War eagles do sound pretty cool. Do their heads always face left, by the way?[http://www.snopes.com/history/american/turnhead.asp]--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:42, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Actually, I thought more along the lines of the SCREAMIN EAGLES! reference from Valve (it's what you get if you have feedback rank 10 on Steam, and the soldier shouts it in TF2, but I can't remember where it came from). You want to know the eagle's name, by the way? Tribeflags. Yeah, it's kind of a lame name, bu

''The above poster was found with this edit partially made, brutally mauled by a large bird like creature. If you wish to contact this person, consult the nearest dwarven shaman or bonespeaker. Thank you. '''Dwarven office of half finished notes cut short by death.'' [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 21:56, 9 November 2008 (EST)

==Goblin Morale==
Does anyone else find that the goblins have really bad moral? I just had 4 squads run away, because 3 goblins died. That wasn't even half a squad, and I really wanted the iron. Any thoughts on why they are so cowardly? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 21:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)

:It might be dependent on whether the squad leader gets killed. Hard to tell, though -- most battles are pretty chaotic.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:11, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::That might be it, the squad leader was the first to be cut in half by a trap :D [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 00:42, 5 December 2008 (EST)

User talk:Squirrelloid

2008-12-05T02:02:43Z

Dangerous Beans: Stupid dorfs

==AI issues I've noticed==
Is there some place to report bugs, because the following have been really annoying me.

And many of them cumulatively add up to many more dwarf deaths than would be expected if dwarves actually followed orders or behaved mildly intelligently. (And since they seem to enjoy ignoring orders which would lead to more intelligent behavior, and you can't actually control their actions, a halfway decent AI seems necessary - the goblins have a far better AI than the dwarves, which is silly).

===Animals try to path through tightly closed doors===
I've long noticed that making a door tightly closed was the best way to get a pet trapped on the wrong side of the door. This is pretty annoying as I can't see any way to kill off pets without making elaborate death traps, and because tightly closing ends up doing the *opposite* of what its supposed to do all those annoying pets end up cluttering my hallways. So I did an experiment. To a location with 2+ modes of entry, I forbade all but one of them, and tightly closed the last door. All the pets attempting to gain access to the other area immediately moved toward the tightly closed door. While they were stuck "?"ing outside the door, I forbade that door and made another door passable but tightly closed, and immediately the pets moved to the new door. If I forbade all the doors the pets wandered around randomly and stopped trying to access the other section.

So apparently pets draw paths like dwarves, and don't understand why they can't get through tightly closed doors, so each time they fail to follow their path they repath through the same door and sit there - leading to pet pile-ups at tightly closed doors and ultimately pets getting through them when dwarves pass through. Shouldn't a tightly closed door be treated as forbidden by pets, and thus they shouldn't try to path through it?

===Dwarves Stay Inside option doesn't work properly===
So, ordering your dwarves to stay inside doesn't stop them from targetting items/locations outside to work in. Instead, they walk outside, sometimes many squares outside, before realizing they are in a forbidden area and then head back in. This is really aggravating during things like a goblin siege where as soon as the first goblin dies all your civilians will immediately try to pick up its corpse and loot it, walking outside into the line of fire. As there is a 'dwarves ignore refuse outside' option which causes dwarves to not even target refuse outside, shouldn't 'stay inside' work the same such that nothing outside can be targetted by dwarves? This would actually lead to the expected behavior of dwarves actually staying inside when told to stay inside.

===Military 'stay close to station' fails sometimes===
I've often resorted to drafting idiot dwarves who can't seem to run in a decent direction and ordered them to stay close to their station and stationed them somewhere away from the menace and towards an escape route. However, it often feels like, despite their station being *screens* away and with a perfectly good route to trace to it, if they can see the chasing goblin they'll often turn and attack it despite being told to stay close to their distant station.

Really, the military interface needs a 'retreat to station' option. But as it is the 'stay close to station' option definitely seems to fail spectacularly on occasion.

===Dwarves only run till they can't see goblins, goblins know exactly where the dwarves are===
Does it make sense that dwarves only run until the goblin menace is no longer visible (sometimes as few as 2-3 squares in a heavily forested map) and then often turn back around towards the pursuing goblin, whereas the goblin has perfect knowledge of their location even if they are screens away and continues to move directly towards them? This leads to unbelievably stupid AI actions and dead dwarves who should have been able to escape. Shouldn't dwarves who spot an enemy retreat to a 'safe' location? (Meeting zone/hall/etc... report there are goblins out there? Run a marathon in the original sense? something?)

Most of the dwarves I've lost to goblins have died to their own stupidity (and often not immediately heading inside despite 'dwarves stay inside' turned on, a direction that was *also* away from the goblins).
:Most of the dwarfs I've lost have been due to their own stupidity. "No, don't drink from the moat while it's filling up. Why are you running towards the goblins? How the #*%^ did you get there?"
:Dwarf Fortress, it's like Sim City meets Lemmings. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 21:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)

===Goblins have omniscience, breaks attack AI===
Similarly, if you close off all entrances to your fortress (with all dwarves inside), ambushers and siege forces simply mill around outside even if they can't see the locked doors. How can they possibly know that around 3 blind corners you locked all the doors without walking down those corridors? Shouldn't they bring battering rams/something to break down doors if they're a siege force - locking the doors should be an 'expected' response, not something which breaks the siege AI. (And of course, if you unlock the doors, your dwarves gleefully try to take tasks outside despite being ordered to stay inside...).

hi. i dont spose there's any way you can post the seed/world of your underwater fortress? i would like to play around with that :) also, sorry for messing up your pristine talk page :p [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 11:57, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Siege

2008-12-05T02:02:40Z

Dangerous Beans: Goblin Moral

===Trigger?===
Just noticed that I got my first (Goblin) siege at 100000 wealth. Anyone else confirm that this is the trigger? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 00:06, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:I had my first goblin siege at about 600k wealth. They sieged me at 15 levels above ground level, where I had a stairway to my fortress. They loitered around for a season and left. [[User:Kaivosukeltaja|Kaivosukeltaja]] 07:31, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::Thanks. I removed my addition from the article. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:35, 9 November 2007 (EST)

I think part of the trigger is killing a Goblin. I'd captured several Goblin thieves, but it was only after I'd dispatched them that I was besieged. So, (wealth > certain amount) and (has killed Goblins) maybe? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 23:09, 12 November 2007 (EST)

Actually, according to Toady (http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000033), Goblins will start sieging now roughly around 80 dwarves and/or some odd amount of wealth.

:I had 3 goblin snatchers show up at a population of 40 dwarves and created wealth of 63,793 (v0.27.169.33g). --[[User:Frond|Frond]] 22:17, 16 January 2008 (EST)

I think that the trigger amount is off by a bit- I just received my first siege, by goblins, at 57 population and about 411,000 wealth. --[[User:Linktoreality|Linktoreality]] 04:58, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Troll squads ==

I had 3 troll squads of exactly 8 trolls in each during a siege. Had a goblin king that time but no beak dogs. Can it be that no beak dogs in goblin civ=better chance for trolls?
:I been sieged at least half a dozain time in my current fortress, and I've never encountered trolls or anything bigger than skilled goblins. In my latest siege, all the goblins are specialised in something but I have no trolls or wolves or whatever to show for. Any idea on this behavior? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:16, 26 November 2007 (EST)
::Apperently they haven't access to any chasm biome for trolls and to whatever biome for beak dogs.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:42, 26 November 2007 (EST)

== Mounts ==

Woe betide those who anger humans. I added a second human race with [BABYSNATCHER] instead of [SIEGER] for barbarian raiding action. When they sieged, every last one of them was riding a horse. When I approached the buggers kept running away and going all Parthian shot on me, too. It was pretty bad ass. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:23, 10 November 2007 (EST)

== Still bugged? ==

Are sieges still bugged in 33b? If someone knows for certain, could they add the version number to the statement in the article? Ta. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 19:52, 18 November 2007 (EST)

i just got siege and i think the bug is still there cause just redownloaded it for erroring reasons...the goblins just sit there and wait for something...
im wondering if (thanks to the bug) the goblins well just die of thirst or something?? or well just o away?

:Yup, still bugged. Toady needs to rewrite the siege AI, 'tis not a simple bug. Goblins will go away on their own after a while, but that beats all the fun. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 15:04, 21 November 2007 (EST)
::Some people suggested on the forum building siege engines near the golin groups and fire to them to death. I'm trying to do just that in my current game. Alternatively, I think there is a flag in the init file where you can disable sieges. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:33, 21 November 2007 (EST)
:Has anyone looked into changing the raws for the goblins to have them a similar behavior to werewolves and other predatory creatures? They roam around the map looking for something to kill, and while they might not stay together in a squad, or move toward your base directly, at least they would do *something*... if it works. Any thoughts? --Gotthard 12:24, 30 November 2007 (EST)

:As of 33g I think they're still somewhat bugged. They will charge but if they find something to attack, it seems like their AI turns off and they stop on the spot. So I guess as long as you don't give them anything to attack on the way to your front gate, they will work fine. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 22:45, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Siege as a blockade ==

"A siege is a military blockade of a city or fortress with the intent of conquering by force or attrition, often accompanied by an assault. The term derives from the Latin word for "seat" or "sitting."[1] A siege occurs when an attacker encounters a city or fortress that refuses to surrender and cannot be easily taken by a frontal assault." --wikipedia

A siege isn't just a blind charge into your cage traps, either.
[[User:Moller|Moller]] 14:38, 3 December 2007 (EST)

My last few goblin seiges, have been actual seiges, instead of running around into my traps. The first of 3 squads ran in, about half fell victim to my traps, then ran, then the other 2 squads have been just waiting outside my fort, for 3 months and counting. [[User:OmegaX]] 15-September-2008
:Just to check, you didn't do anything that would break their pathfinding like triggering cave-ins, locking doors, or raising bridges? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:41, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
They left after a season, but there were no pathfinding issues, the fort was open, just waiting for them. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 21:10, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

==Best way to counter sieges?==
So far, the best way I've found to counter sieges is to create a line of traps all around the map. You can't build them just next to the border of the map, only 5 or 6 squares away from it... However, goblins still walks around a little and often hit the traps. It's hard to create enough casualties in this way to stop them, but they hardly ever leave without giving me free stuff and free kills. :)
Alternatively, setting up balistas or catapults in front of them and firing away is also very rewarding. Too bad it's almost impossible to do without forbidding your dwarves from fetching everything outside, which usually mean that they'll get in the way even if you manage to forbid everything in time. I wish there was a way to allow military dwarves to operate siege engines...--[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:47, 3 December 2007 (EST)

: I agree. Traps are a great thing. I also save VERY often, and when a siege occurs, I will 'force quit' and revert to a previously saved game. Then I make all my dwarves soldiers and give them time to pick up their equipment. This has proven very successful.--[[User:Keesto|Keesto]] 23:46, 5 September 2008 (EDT) Later...I have found that traps are the best/only defense. I have set up about 200 cage traps around the map, and also 20 stone fall traps around the entrances. Soldiers are only useful to me now when I release the goblins from their cages- in confined spaces -for a mass slaughter. Very satisfying.

== Human Leader / Mercenary? ==

I got my third or fourth goblin siege in the current game, and they arrived with a Human Spearmaster in one of their squads. Anyone else got this? Is it worth mentioning in this page?
:Confirmed: third siege. One of invaders is Human Macelord. He is a best attraction at my zoo right now :). Think, i'll add this. Whoops... someone already has :)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:33, 16 January 2008 (EST)
::My roommate had one in a group of ambushers. He was wearing a human leather earring, so that's lovely ;) --[[User:FloodSpectre|FloodSpectre]] 20:04, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

== Nifty defense plan ==

On an unrelated note, I figured a pretty nifty way to kill a lot (or all) of a siege by making an outdoors gatehouse with marksdwarves on the battlements... except instead of making it face OUT, I make it face IN, so I let the enemy inside and they get totally annihilated, as they are shot as soon as they appear :)

Something like this:
<pre>
########
=bolts=#
######@#
+@# g
+@# g
g +@# <- goblins on ground floor come this way
+@# g
+@# g
######@# g
=bolts=#
########
</pre>
This work specially well again enemy shooters, they don't even get a chance to shoot back (and it seems it's nearly impossible to hit my dwarves on higher ground AND behind fortifications).

--[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 23:23, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I recently tried a system like that, where the entrance hall is two floors tall, and I have a marksdwarf barracks on the floor above. They shoot plenty of goblins, and of course I have about 60 stonefall traps there too. I watched laughing as 66% of the goblins thought "AAAH RUN AWAY" and they retreated like sissies :D --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 11:25, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Stealth Sieges ==

It seems that in the new version that sieges don't give announcements anymore. I was still getting my fortress together when one of my woodcutters was ambushed by 10 or so goblins. They proceeded to charge my fort and get killed by the merchants and dogs. Then like 30 seconds later the second wave appeared unannouced at my door. The merchants were in no shape to stand against them and the dogs were all dead. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 15:31, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:This sounds more like an [[Ambush|ambush]] than a siege. I've had four seemingly seperate goblin ambush squads all assault my fortress at the same time (four seperate "An ambush! Curse them!"s), each of which was a lot more dangerous than my first siege! -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:00, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== quote from toady, december 27 ==
(so maybe parts of it changed)

"Humans and elves will come some time after they are angry enough at you.

Kobolds will start sending thieves once your pop hits 20 or you've traded a bit (value 500) or you've produced a bit more (value 5000). If they successfully steal objects, they'll come back with more thieves, and if they continue to be successful, they'll bring (buggy) archers. The power of the next attack is based only on how many objects were stolen during the last raid. They'll start sending archers if three or more objects are stolen.[]..they can send as many as 17 thieves and 36 archers, but this is incredibly unlikely. If the stolen object number is five or more, they'll start sending important historical figures.

Goblins start sending kidnappers when your population has hit 50 or you have traded a bit or produced a bit more (5x the kobold numbers). Once your population hits 80, they'll start to send more serious attacks instead of kidnappers on occasion. The numbers sent during the serious attacks depend only on how many attacks you've been through. If they have mounts or monsters(trolls?), they'll start using them on the second attack, with multiple monster packs on the third. Important historical figures also come with the third attack, but master weapon users can come on the second. Important kidnappers come on the second kidnapping attempt.

All of this will be obsolete once I get the armies working properly on the world map, though there will still have to be some artificial mechanism in place to stop early forts from being wiped out."

:Good, then I shall start war with the elves because there are no goblins.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 18:22, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

== Human Sieges ==

I am, right now in v0.28.181.39b, being besieged by about 14 humans, one of which is on a horse carrying a bow. "An enemy is laying siege" or some such came up instead of the usual "A vile force of darkness has arrived". Even stranger is that they built ''A Campfire'' and are just milling about around it. There is a clear path straight into the heart of my fortress. There is no sign of war on the civ screen. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 09:21, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
 It's even worse than that! They're actually doing siege tactics - they sit in their camp until someone goes outside, at which point they all set off to kill that poor sot. Then they return to camp. If it's not outside, they don't care. They also don't seem to be affected by any of my traps. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 11:52, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
:just wait until the campfire has burned down and then they will move to the fortress as the goblins do. It might take a while, so no need for hurry. I only had two human sieges in my current fortress until now, but they seem to increase in numbers as the goblins do.
:*first year: ~10 humans, not mounted, campfire
:*second year: ~20 humans, 2 squads, mounted. 1 squad with campfire, the second one just waited and had no campfire. After a while, they moved to the fortress, but not both squads at once.

:In my case (v0.28.181.39c), they were affected by my 2 weapon traps. At least at the second siege when they were mounted, during the first one when they had no horses, I had no traps, so I don't know if this has an effect.

:The text of the human siege is "The enemy have come and are laying siege to the fortress"

: In my fort the human guild representative died and once a caravan was slaughtered by an ambush.
:[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 18:24, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

::now in the 3rd year, a human diplomat arrived instead of the next siege and he offers the following options:
::''Peace is calling out to us. How do you respond?''
::Enter: ''I hear her voice. Let us stop this war.''
::Space: ''We will drown her out with the screams of your dying. Begone.''

::As I'm a beginner, as far as wikis are concerned, it would be nice if someone could update the article.
::[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:34, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
:::I've added it in, although I'm also a n00b at this wiki stuff, and kept forgetting important stuff. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:22, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::::thanks. As there aren't many reports about human sieges right now, it is a good start. -[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 03:09, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

: I have also received a human siege (v0.28.181.39e). Accidentally had the merchant diplomat locked in my fort - he 'left unhappy' (but he and the caravan were otherwise unscathed.) First summer - 10 unmounted humans; second summer - 50 humans, all mounted. Their campfire died down in Fall - it is now mid-Winter and they still haven't entered my fort. Instead they ride their horses in circles outside my gate. I have tried to bait them with expendable dwarfs but they just take them out with crossbows. Dwarven caravan did not even attempt to come in the Fall; also, no goblins or kobolds have dared to raid during the siege. All in all, a pretty effective siege as I do not have yet a military capable of attacking. (3rd year of fort). By the way, when the first siege force arrived I had fewer than 80 dwarves.
:[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 21:27, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

My guild rep died somehow, not really sure what caused it, though my relations before that were fairly good with the humans, aside from a caravan seize once, and when they came back I gave them gifts and large profit margins. Anyways, now theres a seige, I dont see a campfire, but they're definately waiting, eventually they marched into my fort, AVOIDING all the non-cage TRAPS. Cage traps got a few, but they evaded my corridor with 20 weapon traps, and 40+ Stone-fall traps, all loaded and ready. Without a single injury. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 02:13, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

:: I remember something about the human merchants and/or guild representatives looking at traps when visiting the fortress, and making them useless against the human siegers. Great ! Now we have Human spies and diplomats, Goblins blitzkrieg, Kobold snipers and Elven commando. Can't wait for Elephant paratroopers and Giant cave spider artillery. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 16:21, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Operation Dumbo Drop and Starship Troopers?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:27, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

== Avoidable? ==

I just had my first siege in my current fortress, and happened to save right before it started, like 1 or 2 steps before. The goblins killed all of the dwarven caravan that they arrived with, so I reloaded and there was no siege. I haven't been very long in this no-siege alternative univers, so I want to know if it will happen slightly later, or if I have avoided it completely. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:39, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

I just got ambushed, with an elite bowman along with the group, nut definitely not as many goblins as the siege.this is kinda weird. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:48, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

== What about constructed walls? ==

The page says trolls will smash all buildings. But what about constructed walls? The Construction page says constructed walls/floors act as inert terrain objects. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 05:10, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
:[Building Destroyer]s like trolls ignore constructs like walls and floors, they only smash things like doors and bridges. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:22, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
::Ok, thanks. That was causing me some confusion. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 17:34, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

== Megabeasts ==

Could someone update my add-on about megabeasts? It was lacking info about them but it's pretty general right now. --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 16:30, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
:Could use an update, indeed! It's verified in the advanced world gen parameters that world generation stop is based on percentage of surviving megabeasts (default 80%), and that number can be modified when creating a world with advanced parameters (I myself typically lower it to 60%, in hopes of more roving hydras for my fortress to face). I would also write a few words about cage traps and the dangers they present to a fortress, as I once had a caged titan break out of his cage and lay waste to the inner sanctum of a fortress. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 17:55, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

== Mining ==

Is it possible for a human siege to mine into your base? I've played around in adventure mode and seen (and killed) a few human miners, so I was wondering if the humans were ever smart enough to bring one along and tunnel into your base. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 10:42, 9 November 2008 (EST)

Not yet, unfortunately. Rock walls and constructions of any type remain impervious. They can't fill in dry moats yet, either. Fortunately for the humans, a dwarf fortress can't survive indefinitely without imports, migrants, or fresh lumber, and human besiegers tend to be more cautious than goblins, so they can still endanger your survival indirectly. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 12:36, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:Currently my fortress is pretty well self sustaining, though due to pathfinding errors my dwarves refuse to take the inside stairs to my exploratory mining chamber. I'm at my population cap (130) and my food and drinks are fairly stable at 200 seeds, 500 alcohol, 600~700 prepared meals, and 300 plants. At the very least, I'm (very lucky to be) prepared for the next human siege (the first one was a group of pansies who managed to get killed without me noticing (long story short, I assigned my squads to a mountain near the humans for the high ground, and some crossbowdwarves went around the long way and shot their way through the humans (who didn't have any crossbowmen, at least not after the first volley of dwarven bolts) and left only a few for cleanup.

:Oh, did I mention my ''War [[Giant Eagle]]?'' The thing kicks MAJOR ass. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 16:53, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::You can't have a war giant eagle. Dogs are the only thing that can be trained to war animals. Brag if you like, we all do it, but don't lie. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:16, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::: I edited the raws to make it trainable. And don't say that can't be done, they tell you how to do it (for elephants, but still) on this very Wiki.[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 17:19, 9 November 2008 (EST)

::::War eagles do sound pretty cool. Do their heads always face left, by the way?[http://www.snopes.com/history/american/turnhead.asp]--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:42, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Actually, I thought more along the lines of the SCREAMIN EAGLES! reference from Valve (it's what you get if you have feedback rank 10 on Steam, and the soldier shouts it in TF2, but I can't remember where it came from). You want to know the eagle's name, by the way? Tribeflags. Yeah, it's kind of a lame name, bu

''The above poster was found with this edit partially made, brutally mauled by a large bird like creature. If you wish to contact this person, consult the nearest dwarven shaman or bonespeaker. Thank you. '''Dwarven office of half finished notes cut short by death.'' [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 21:56, 9 November 2008 (EST)

==Goblin Moral==
Does anyone else find that the goblins have really bad moral? I just had 4 squads run away, because 3 goblins died. That wasn't even half a squad, and I really wanted the iron. Any thoughts on why they are so cowardly? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 21:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Bridge

2008-12-04T05:29:23Z

Dangerous Beans: /* Bridges and wagons? */

==Fluids vs bridges==
Does a raised bridge prevent the flow of fluids? Guess I'll experiment and see if I can answer my own question. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 21:21, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:Yes. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:55, 1 March 2008 (EST)

==picture: south-raising drawbridge==
Here's a picture of a bridge that raises South, to clear up any confusion over which direction bridges raise. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 18:03, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
{{qd|cols=8
|╔|═|╗|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|╚|═|╝|.|╞|═|╡|.
|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.}}

== Items... ==

When a creature is crushed by a bridge, what happens to the items they had?--[[User:Lordmick134|Lordmick134]]

:When the bridge lowers, it completely ans permanently destroys anything it crashes on. So, there will be absolutely nothing under bridge, when it raises back.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 03:29, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

::Not true! I had trapped a goblin inside a room with a bridge in it, and set the lever connected to the bridge to be repeatedly pulled. The goblin was stunned at most.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 09:37, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

:::The goblin was likely ''flung'' from the bridge after stepping onto the extended bridge which then raised with the goblin still on it. Crushing is definitely an irrevocable and utter destruction. --[[User:JT|JT]] 16:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

== Channeling ==

Checked the [[channel]]ing article, nothing there, either. I have a bridge that raises to the right to form a wall, part of my outer defensive perimeter. I was digging a channel around the fortification wall and wanted to channel under the bridge. I raised the bridge ... I cannot channel. It never creates the flashy 'this is gonna be channeled' designation anywhere where the bridge could lay over. I can channel any where else. I can also remove the bridge, channel what I want, and replace the bridge just fine. What gives? Is this a known bug? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 02:35, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

:As far as I know you can't dig on constructions. When the bridge is raised it is still considered to be constructed there. (or something like that) I had the same problem with some retracting bridges. To fix it I just removed the bridges and dug the channels, and then rebuilt them. --[[User:Lotus|Lotus]] 10:13 (CST) June 11, 2008

== Bridges as a temporary wall ==

I want to build a wall by pulling a lever, to block off a tunnel three squares wide.
It is a mine tunnel with no channel above it.

How long should the bridge be?

It looks like this:
<div style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%"><nowiki>
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ò▒▒▒
.........╥.........
.........║.........
.........╨.........
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
</nowiki></div>

[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

Well, you have to be careful. Don't forget, by raising a bridge, you can potentially obliterate your dwarves in the process. So try not to make it too wide. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:41, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:My question is, if I make it too long will it smash into the roof or anything?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::As far as I know of, it won't smash into the roof. The only concern is that if the bridge is too long, a dwarf may get accidently crushed. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:14, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Buildings that span multiple/variable z-levels are, at the current time, not possible. So, just build a 1x3 bridge, set it to raise west or east, and you have a wall! A toggleable wall! --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::::I'd suggest doing a 2x bridge, as you'll have to track down the lever anytime you're curious as to whether the bridge is up or down, as a 1x or x1 bridge looks the same raised or lowered when raised on it's short axis. (e.g. the bridge above would look the same raised or lowered.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:59, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

== Retractable/drawbridge ==

How can you specify which type of bridge you want to build? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:45, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:When you go to place a bridge, by default it retracts. If you press wadxs you change the direction it raises: w = north, a= west, d=east, x=south, s=retracts. I don't know how to set the direction it retracts though.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::So if it retracts, it creates an impassable wall? -[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:15, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:::No, it disappears. If it raises, it creates an impassable wall, whose direction is the same as the raise direction. Try it out.
:::And, Garrie, it isn't possible to set retract direction since there is no such thing. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Well I guess it doesn't really matter which way it retracts... although if a bridge is built outward from a cliff running east-west out to the chasm which is to the north then obviously the bridge retracts back to the edge it is anchored at (it can hardly retract back into mid-air...).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 23:22, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Oh, really? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:32, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::well I guess applying common sense to DF might not be the best idea... but common sense would [bold]suggest [/bold] the bridge retracts back to where it was built from.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:03, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::::We don't use BBcode here. I don't think that even is BBcode, but it is in that style. To make '''bold text''', type <code><nowiki>'''bold text'''</nowiki></code>.
:::::::And you're right that applying common sense to DF doesn't work. Even the least of peasants can carry thousands of pounds pebbles in a backpack. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:06, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

== Bridge-on-bridge action ==

I've just added a note about retractable bridges being able to be built using existing bridges as support. However I'm currently unable to test what happens when an intermediary bridge is retracted or raised (I have no stone for mechanisms!). I'm assuming that any bridges relying on the retracted/raised bridge for support will collapse, but it should be tested (and noted), if someone else has the time and inclination! [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 12:04, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

: I can confirm that when the first bridge is retracted the second one deconstructs. And also if you choose to do your testing using extreme cliffs and "accidently" make 6 of your 7 dwarves stand on the second bridge then they will die a horrible death after falling 18 stories. --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 16:54, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

::What if you raise both of the bridges at the same time? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:48, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:::The same thing happens, the second bridge deconstructs again --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 13:48, 22 June 2008 (EDT)
::::I attempted this quite some time ago, I think. I had something like ten bridges in a row built off a cliff, and retracted them all at once with one lever. All but the first one (which was connected to the cliff) shattered into stones instantly. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:29, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

== lockdown system ==

in one of my old forts i had a setup so if the opponent got near my bridges a lever would be pulled and the opponents would fall into the lava with a godlike imp in it, it would use multiple bridges however and i would have to rebuild atleast 1, it was sort of like a tesselation of crosses

== Flying Bridge ==
Build stairs up. Build stairs down atop it. Build a retracting bridge extending into open air from the downstairs. Link the retracting bridge to a lever. Pull the lever to retract the bridge. Deconstruct the down stairs. Deconstruct the up stairs. Pull the lever. Remove the lever. Bridge flies. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 11:38, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
:Shame this can't be used to build eg. twisty retractable catwalks due to the above confirmations in Bridge-on-bridge action. :/ --[[User:Heron|Heron]] 09:46, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
::You could probably get something similar by just having occasional pillars sticking up, constructed by building towers of stairs, building a wall adjacent, then deconstructing the stairs. If you have each bridge anchored to one pillar, you ought to be able to get many retractable bridges in a sequence. --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 12:08, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
:::More testing. Retracted bridges never deconstruct. Make a chain as long as you like by keeping them all retracted until scaffolding is removed. Un-retracting bridges never deconstuct nor cause deconstruction. To make a path of multiple flying bridges build a scaffold for the first bridge, retract it, deconstruct the scaffold, build the second scaffold, retract that bridge, deconstruct that scaffold, and so forth. You can then unretract all bridges in any order and they'll all stay up. Retracting them again in any order caused them to fall. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 09:00, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

== Stockpiles under bridges ==

I tried to make a refuse stockpile with a drawbridge over top, and I couldn't place the stockpile where the bridge would lower onto. Can anyone else confirm this for the new version? [[User:Falcondude|Falcondude]] 11:05, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
:Yeah, that won't work. If you are trying to make a garbage compactor, make a ledge and designate a garbage dump with (i) that will drop the items where the bridge will close.[[User:Trevlyn13|Trevlyn13]]

== Drawbridge vs colossus ==

Yesterday a bronze colossus got trapped between my 2 moats, right under the drawbridge. It was too close to the catapults so that the operators wouldn't fire them, so I tried to crush it with the bridge.
My bridge broke instead.
(later I killed it by shooting hundreds of arrows)
If anyone could replicate this, and also experiment with other megabeasts....
(actually I made this account to tell people about this)
[[User:nautilusfossil|nautilusfossil]]
:As far as I know, Dwarven Atom Crushers™ break on megabeasts and demons. Cage Traps are the way to go for megabeasts, but demons are immune against them.
:I don't know about semi-megabeasts considering bridge-breaking. [[User:MC Dirty|MC Dirty]] 18:17, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

== Dwarves negative thoughts regarding crushed friends ==

Dwarves respond to friends or family members being crushed by a drawbridge as if they'd been killed & then not buried: "He was forced to endure the decay of a sibling lately. He lost a sibling to tragedy recently." (I'm certain this was due to the drawbridge, as all the siblings *except* the one that was crushed had these negative thoughts. Nobody else in the family had been killed by anything yet.) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 14:49, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

== Melty mechanisms... redux? ==

Curiosity kills my dwarves - I'm not wasting the time to do this myself. Will mechanisms melt out of bridges that are submerged in magma? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:31, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:I have no idea, this is a good question. While writing a reply of my thoughts I kept re-thinking some things. If Magma passes over the bridge I'm pretty certain that the mechanism will act like a flood gate's. It will not melt away as long as you don't raise the bridge. If you do raise the bridge, the mechanism will melt away and the bridge could do a number of things. Before I keep typing about what I think will/could happen, I'm just going to go ahead and pass on a wall of text. [[User:Dakira|Dakira]] 1844, 28 September 2008 (PST)
::But fluids cannot enter the tile of a raised bridge, whereas they can enter the tile of a lowered bridge. In this way, a raised bridge would be analogous to a _closed_ floodgate, and a lowered bridge to an _open_ one. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 21:51, 25 November 2008 (EST)

== Bridges and wagons? ==

Is is possible for wagons to drive over bridges? I would assume so, but I don't want to get hasty. --[[User:W-dueck|w-dueck]] 23:50, 3 December 2008 (EST)
:yes, anything can pass over them. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 00:29, 4 December 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Fortification

2008-12-04T01:40:45Z

Dangerous Beans:

==Can water or magma flow through fortifications?==
Can water or magma flow through fortifications?--[[User:Javiskefka|Javiskefka]] 03:45, 29 November 2007 (EST)
:Yes. I use this all the time to keep the pesky fire imps out of my magma channels. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 21:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
::I did so, too. But after some time the magma melted the fortification away and the imps could pass through unhindered again.--[[User:Doub|Doub]] 13:42, 12 March 2007 (EST)
::: Use [[bauxite]]. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 01:20, 14 March 2008 (EDT)
::::Possible alternative: Will fortifications melt if they are carved instead of constructed? Perhaps instead of mining out the last tile before fleeing, the dwarf could carve a fortification in the obsidian. It's conceivable that that tile, being one of the original tube liners, could be magma-proof by fiat. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:27, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
:::::I tried this when breaching into a magma pipe and yes, the (warm) obsidian fortification is still present many years later. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for the Dwarf who had the misfortune of being the one assigned the task of carving the fortification. Magma apparently flows faster than a dwarf can run, especially when their feet are on fire. -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 04:33, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::Ditto -- carved fortifications don't melt. (I built like this: lava-wall-fortification, then channelled the wall from above) It appears the game tends to treat carved and constructed things very differently. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:57, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
::::::I just build [[vertical bars]] in channels, usually out of iron. Keeps bad things and good things out, lets water and magma flow through. --[[User:JT|JT]] 16:42, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::::Yeah, I built bauxite grates at first, but then I had a thought that [[magma men]] (being buildingdestroyer:2) could bust them open. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 17:48, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
::::::I just embarked without any preparations (random items/skills) on a site with volcano. I created empty pool, and then carved fortifications near it. After that I channeled rock before the fortifications, and now I see just lying obsidian... Looks like carved fortifications melt too, at least in the current version. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 10:08, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::::No, the fortification is still there, it just looks like magma until you loo{{k|k}} at it. While I was checking this I noticed a fire imp on the wrong side of the fortification, so I guess it isn't enough. (or can they spawn anywhere?) [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:59, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
::::::::Strong current can currently push creatures through any kind of obstacle that allows liquid flow. I will retry check with the obsidian fortification in my obsidian factory. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:15, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

==Open questions ==
*What depth is required for a liquid such as water or magma to flow through a fortification? minimum 4/7? --[[User:Nexii Malthus|Nexii Malthus]] 19:11, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
:I've just tried this with constructed fortifications (green glass) and water. The fortification doesn't seem to impede the flow of water at all. -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 10:15, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
:I had a section of fortress walled off from my moat with fortifications, and it filled with magma at the same rate as the rest of the moat. I think they are considered clear for the purposes of liquid flow. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 06:14, 1 December 2008 (EST)

*At what angle can one shoot through fortifications?
:As far as I'm concerned the angle is pretty sharp - I'd say about 30-25 degree. On close distances the dwarf has to be pretty much in straight line with target. I'm not sure if this applies to fortifications that don't touch walls such as ones in aboveground archery towers or long carved walls. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:33, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
::Just think of fortifications as of empty space in that concern. Just with a skill check to shoot through. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:20, 3 December 2008 (EST)

*some people claim that you can shoot at attackers from one z level above (thats true for sure), but they cant shoot back. Is this true? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 11:48, 8 March 2008 (EST)
:Yes, it works great. I think they can shoot down more than 1 z-level but I can't confirm this.[[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 10:47, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
::iirc, they CAN shoot back, they just cant hit well. if you are next to the fortification you are shooting through theres no penalty. trying to shoot through from more than 1 square away is a skill check. if the fortification is up a z-level, the dwarf on the inside will still be next to the fortification, but the enemy can never be, so must alway shoot at a penalty. --[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:33, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
::I've had goblins shooting back at my fortifications one z-level above and regular crossbowmen have difficulty, but elite goblin crossbowmen can hit and kill in one shot. However, three z-levels above and there's little to no return fire, and my dwarves seem to have better range firing down too (but I can't confirm this for sure). This would make complete sense, as high ground certainly does give a tactical advantage in reality.--[[User:TimE|TimE]] 05:37, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

*Do fortifications provide support for constructions above? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:34, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
:Built fortifications provide no support/floor above them. Not sure about carved fortifications. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:17, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:Fortifications act like a floor with a support on it. They do not provide a floor to the tile above them, but I built a 1x1 tower of fortifications five tall that remained even after deconstructing the scaffold, so they definitely support things above them. A fortification is impassible to creatures (except as pushed by liquid flow). --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 18:11, 2 December 2008 (EST)
::Except your dwarves can walk through supports, while they can't fortifications. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:57, 2 December 2008 (EST)
:::And supports don't provide marksdwarves with cover... was there a point to that remark? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:41, 2 December 2008 (EST)
::::Yeah, there was. He specifically said that fortifications act like a floor tile with a support on it. This was partially wrong, so I pointed it out. Ryuken: definitely ''not'' flamewar seeds --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:21, 2 December 2008 (EST)

*Can fortifications be carved from metal walls? --[[User:Sublight|Sublight]] 16:07 28 November 2008 (JST)
:Yes, they can. Just tried it our this weekend. --[[User:Sublight|Sublight]] 11:19 01 December 2008 (JST)

==Difficulty of firing through fortifications==

It has long been held that there is a penalty to firing through a fortification from a distance, but I haven't observed any such penalty in actual practice. Can we confirm this through experimentation? --[[User:JT|JT]] 22:12, 21 June 2008 (EDT)

Seems like you could set up two or three identical archery targets with fortifications at different distances, and look for busted ammunition near the fortifications. Any bolt that "splashes" on the fortifications should leave evidence of its passage. --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 13:08, 1 December 2008 (EST)
:Doesn't work, they just end up standing in front of the fortifications. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 20:40, 3 December 2008 (EST)

Do constructed fortifications provide any defence from projectiles fired from higher z levels? I'm currently building a killing field, and want some way to protect my dwarfs from goblin arrows, while still allowing my marks dwarfs in the raised tower to fill the goblins full of bolts.[[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 20:08, 3 December 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Fortification

2008-12-04T01:08:00Z

Dangerous Beans:

==Can water or magma flow through fortifications?==
Can water or magma flow through fortifications?--[[User:Javiskefka|Javiskefka]] 03:45, 29 November 2007 (EST)
:Yes. I use this all the time to keep the pesky fire imps out of my magma channels. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 21:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
::I did so, too. But after some time the magma melted the fortification away and the imps could pass through unhindered again.--[[User:Doub|Doub]] 13:42, 12 March 2007 (EST)
::: Use [[bauxite]]. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 01:20, 14 March 2008 (EDT)
::::Possible alternative: Will fortifications melt if they are carved instead of constructed? Perhaps instead of mining out the last tile before fleeing, the dwarf could carve a fortification in the obsidian. It's conceivable that that tile, being one of the original tube liners, could be magma-proof by fiat. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:27, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
:::::I tried this when breaching into a magma pipe and yes, the (warm) obsidian fortification is still present many years later. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for the Dwarf who had the misfortune of being the one assigned the task of carving the fortification. Magma apparently flows faster than a dwarf can run, especially when their feet are on fire. -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 04:33, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::Ditto -- carved fortifications don't melt. (I built like this: lava-wall-fortification, then channelled the wall from above) It appears the game tends to treat carved and constructed things very differently. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:57, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
::::::I just build [[vertical bars]] in channels, usually out of iron. Keeps bad things and good things out, lets water and magma flow through. --[[User:JT|JT]] 16:42, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::::Yeah, I built bauxite grates at first, but then I had a thought that [[magma men]] (being buildingdestroyer:2) could bust them open. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 17:48, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
::::::I just embarked without any preparations (random items/skills) on a site with volcano. I created empty pool, and then carved fortifications near it. After that I channeled rock before the fortifications, and now I see just lying obsidian... Looks like carved fortifications melt too, at least in the current version. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 10:08, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::::No, the fortification is still there, it just looks like magma until you loo{{k|k}} at it. While I was checking this I noticed a fire imp on the wrong side of the fortification, so I guess it isn't enough. (or can they spawn anywhere?) [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:59, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
::::::::Strong current can currently push creatures through any kind of obstacle that allows liquid flow. I will retry check with the obsidian fortification in my obsidian factory. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:15, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

==Open questions ==
*What depth is required for a liquid such as water or magma to flow through a fortification? minimum 4/7? --[[User:Nexii Malthus|Nexii Malthus]] 19:11, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
:I've just tried this with constructed fortifications (green glass) and water. The fortification doesn't seem to impede the flow of water at all. -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 10:15, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
:I had a section of fortress walled off from my moat with fortifications, and it filled with magma at the same rate as the rest of the moat. I think they are considered clear for the purposes of liquid flow. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 06:14, 1 December 2008 (EST)

*At what angle can one shoot through fortifications?
:As far as I'm concerned the angle is pretty sharp - I'd say about 30-25 degree. On close distances the dwarf has to be pretty much in straight line with target. I'm not sure if this applies to fortifications that don't touch walls such as ones in aboveground archery towers or long carved walls. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:33, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
::Just think of fortifications as of empty space in that concern. Just with a skill check to shoot through. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:20, 3 December 2008 (EST)

*some people claim that you can shoot at attackers from one z level above (thats true for sure), but they cant shoot back. Is this true? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 11:48, 8 March 2008 (EST)
:Yes, it works great. I think they can shoot down more than 1 z-level but I can't confirm this.[[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 10:47, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
::iirc, they CAN shoot back, they just cant hit well. if you are next to the fortification you are shooting through theres no penalty. trying to shoot through from more than 1 square away is a skill check. if the fortification is up a z-level, the dwarf on the inside will still be next to the fortification, but the enemy can never be, so must alway shoot at a penalty. --[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:33, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
::I've had goblins shooting back at my fortifications one z-level above and regular crossbowmen have difficulty, but elite goblin crossbowmen can hit and kill in one shot. However, three z-levels above and there's little to no return fire, and my dwarves seem to have better range firing down too (but I can't confirm this for sure). This would make complete sense, as high ground certainly does give a tactical advantage in reality.--[[User:TimE|TimE]] 05:37, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

*Do fortifications provide support for constructions above? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:34, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
:Built fortifications provide no support/floor above them. Not sure about carved fortifications. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:17, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:Fortifications act like a floor with a support on it. They do not provide a floor to the tile above them, but I built a 1x1 tower of fortifications five tall that remained even after deconstructing the scaffold, so they definitely support things above them. A fortification is impassible to creatures (except as pushed by liquid flow). --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 18:11, 2 December 2008 (EST)
::Except your dwarves can walk through supports, while they can't fortifications. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:57, 2 December 2008 (EST)
:::And supports don't provide marksdwarves with cover... was there a point to that remark? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:41, 2 December 2008 (EST)
::::Yeah, there was. He specifically said that fortifications act like a floor tile with a support on it. This was partially wrong, so I pointed it out. Ryuken: definitely ''not'' flamewar seeds --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:21, 2 December 2008 (EST)

*Can fortifications be carved from metal walls? --[[User:Sublight|Sublight]] 16:07 28 November 2008 (JST)
:Yes, they can. Just tried it our this weekend. --[[User:Sublight|Sublight]] 11:19 01 December 2008 (JST)

==Difficulty of firing through fortifications==

It has long been held that there is a penalty to firing through a fortification from a distance, but I haven't observed any such penalty in actual practice. Can we confirm this through experimentation? --[[User:JT|JT]] 22:12, 21 June 2008 (EDT)

Seems like you could set up two or three identical archery targets with fortifications at different distances, and look for busted ammunition near the fortifications. Any bolt that "splashes" on the fortifications should leave evidence of its passage. --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 13:08, 1 December 2008 (EST)

Do constructed fortifications provide any defence from projectiles fired from higher z levels? I'm currently building a killing field, and want some way to protect my dwarfs from goblin arrows, while still allowing my marks dwarfs in the raised tower to fill the goblins full of bolts.[[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 20:08, 3 December 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Size

2008-12-02T03:12:32Z

Dangerous Beans: /* Reference */

==Reference==
Is it possible to get Dwarves, Goblins, Humans, Elves, and the like in here? It's nice to have a reference. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 20:07, 1 December 2008 (EST)
: There you go [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 22:12, 1 December 2008 (EST)

40d:Size

2008-12-02T03:12:10Z

Dangerous Beans: Added humanoids

How "big" the [[creature]] is. '''Size''' determines what kind of equipment a creature can wear, how much [[damage]] they can absorb, and how much damage they can inflict in melee. A butchered creature gives a number of [[chunks]], [[meat]] and [[bone]]s equal to the creature's size. [[Speed]] may not be a factor.

{| {{prettytable}}
|- style="background:#dddddd"
! Creature !! Size
|-
! [[Groundhog]] !! 2
|-
! [[Carp]] !! 3
|-
! [[Mandrill]], [[Kobold]] !! 5
|-
! [[Dwarf]], [[Goblin]] !! 6
|-
! [[Human]], [[Elf]] !! 7
|-
! [[Grizzly bear]] !! 9
|-
! [[Sturgeon]] !! 10
|-
! [[Elephant]] !! 16
|-
! [[Dragon]] !! 20
|}

40d Talk:Fortification

2008-12-01T11:14:43Z

Dangerous Beans:

==Can water or magma flow through fortifications?==
Can water or magma flow through fortifications?--[[User:Javiskefka|Javiskefka]] 03:45, 29 November 2007 (EST)
:Yes. I use this all the time to keep the pesky fire imps out of my magma channels. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 21:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
::I did so, too. But after some time the magma melted the fortification away and the imps could pass through unhindered again.--[[User:Doub|Doub]] 13:42, 12 March 2007 (EST)
::: Use [[bauxite]]. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 01:20, 14 March 2008 (EDT)
::::Possible alternative: Will fortifications melt if they are carved instead of constructed? Perhaps instead of mining out the last tile before fleeing, the dwarf could carve a fortification in the obsidian. It's conceivable that that tile, being one of the original tube liners, could be magma-proof by fiat. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:27, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
:::::I tried this when breaching into a magma pipe and yes, the (warm) obsidian fortification is still present many years later. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for the Dwarf who had the misfortune of being the one assigned the task of carving the fortification. Magma apparently flows faster than a dwarf can run, especially when their feet are on fire. -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 04:33, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::Ditto -- carved fortifications don't melt. (I built like this: lava-wall-fortification, then channelled the wall from above) It appears the game tends to treat carved and constructed things very differently. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:57, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
::::::I just build [[vertical bars]] in channels, usually out of iron. Keeps bad things and good things out, lets water and magma flow through. --[[User:JT|JT]] 16:42, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::::Yeah, I built bauxite grates at first, but then I had a thought that [[magma men]] (being buildingdestroyer:2) could bust them open. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 17:48, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
::::::I just embarked without any preparations (random items/skills) on a site with volcano. I created empty pool, and then carved fortifications near it. After that I channeled rock before the fortifications, and now I see just lying obsidian... Looks like carved fortifications melt too, at least in the current version. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 10:08, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::::No, the fortification is still there, it just looks like magma until you loo{{k|k}} at it. While I was checking this I noticed a fire imp on the wrong side of the fortification, so I guess it isn't enough. (or can they spawn anywhere?) [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:59, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
::::::::Strong current can currently push creatures through any kind of obstacle that allows liquid flow. I will retry check with the obsidian fortification in my obsidian factory. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:15, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

==Open questions ==
*What depth is required for a liquid such as water or magma to flow through a fortification? minimum 4/7? --[[User:Nexii Malthus|Nexii Malthus]] 19:11, 9 March 2008 (EDT)
:I've just tried this with constructed fortifications (green glass) and water. The fortification doesn't seem to impede the flow of water at all. -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 10:15, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
:I had a section of fortress walled off from my moat with fortifications, and it filled with magma at the same rate as the rest of the moat. I think they are considered clear for the purposes of liquid flow. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 06:14, 1 December 2008 (EST)

*At what angle can one shoot through fortifications?
:As far as I'm concerned the angle is pretty sharp - I'd say about 30-25 degree. On close distances the dwarf has to be pretty much in straight line with target. I'm not sure if this applies to fortifications that don't touch walls such as ones in aboveground archery towers or long carved walls. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:33, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

*some people claim that you can shoot at attackers from one z level above (thats true for sure), but they cant shoot back. Is this true? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 11:48, 8 March 2008 (EST)
:Yes, it works great. I think they can shoot down more than 1 z-level but I can't confirm this.[[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 10:47, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
::iirc, they CAN shoot back, they just cant hit well. if you are next to the fortification you are shooting through theres no penalty. trying to shoot through from more than 1 square away is a skill check. if the fortification is up a z-level, the dwarf on the inside will still be next to the fortification, but the enemy can never be, so must alway shoot at a penalty. --[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:33, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
::I've had goblins shooting back at my fortifications one z-level above and regular crossbowmen have difficulty, but elite goblin crossbowmen can hit and kill in one shot. However, three z-levels above and there's little to no return fire, and my dwarves seem to have better range firing down too (but I can't confirm this for sure). This would make complete sense, as high ground certainly does give a tactical advantage in reality.--[[User:TimE|TimE]] 05:37, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

*Do fortifications provide support for constructions above? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:34, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
:Built fortifications provide no support/floor above them. Not sure about carved fortifications. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:17, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

*Can fortifications be carved from metal walls? --[[User:Sublight|Sublight]] 16:07 28 November 2008 (JST)
:Yes, they can. Just tried it our this weekend. --[[User:Sublight|Sublight]] 11:19 01 December 2008 (JST)

==Difficulty of firing through fortifications==

It has long been held that there is a penalty to firing through a fortification from a distance, but I haven't observed any such penalty in actual practice. Can we confirm this through experimentation? --[[User:JT|JT]] 22:12, 21 June 2008 (EDT)

40d:Carp

2008-11-09T03:40:36Z

Dangerous Beans: Minor spelling fix

{{D for Dwarf}}

{{CreatureInfo|name=The Aquatic Doombringer otherwise known as Carp|symbol=α|color=rgb(0, 128, 128)|bones=3|fat=1|skin=1|skulls=1|chunks=3|meat=3|biome= * [[Temperate]] freshwater river
* Temperate freshwater lake
* [[Tropical]] freshwater [[river]]
* Tropical freshwater lake}}

'' "I think I made fish too hardcore" ''--[[Toady One]]

These little monsters are challenging [[elephant]]s for the post of King of Beasts, not only because they can drag a fully grown [[dwarf]] into the [[water]] and nibble him to death, but also because they can stare at your [[fisherdwarf]] and send them staggering back into a [[cliff]]. To make things worse, [[Ambusher|hunters]] will unload their whole [[quiver]]s on them, oblivious to nearby [[animal]]s walking on land. Carp will however die after the first winter if you are lucky enough to have a map which freezes. Alternatively, try draining all the [[river]]s and lakes to air-drown the fish (but be wary not to water-drown your [[dwarves]] in the process).

== Explanation ==
The carp's status as a cold-blooded dwarf killer is no doubt due to the fact that [[Toady One]] simply used a default bite attack for the carp (as with most of the new beings in v0.27.169.33a). The carp, half the size of a dwarf, has a bite attack which inflicts 1-6 damage points. Compared to the strength of a dwarven punch (1-2 damage points), it is easy to see that it is simply an oversight and will be fixed some time in the future.

The carp's propensity to attack [[creatures]] outside of its element and its ability to scare away dwarves it could never really reach is better classifiable as a bug. The same could be said about the hunters ability to target and attack them.

Carp also used to gain attributes from skill increases. Previously, innate swimmers gained attributes as they gained swim skill. This has been changed, and innate swimmers no longer gain swimming skill (or stat increases).

Additionally, dwarves who get attacked by carp tend to end up in the river, either from being pulled in, "dodging" into it, or trying to bull-rush the carp.

== Advice ==

If you are new to DF, then there is only one thing to do if you come across a river full of carp and you don't want your dwarves to die... Run. Run and never look back.

Or if you are too tired to run after your looong journey you can use designations(d) then set traffic areas(o) to simply forbid your Dwarves going near the carp. This works best on lakes and ponds with the nasty buggers in them.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:FISH_CARP]
[NAME:carp:carp:carp]
[TILE:224][COLOR:3:0:0]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[AQUATIC][UNDERSWIM][IMMOBILE_LAND]
[MODVALUE:3]
[GENPOWER:3]
[PREFSTRING:protruding mouths]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:15:30]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:5:10]
[BENIGN][MEANDERER][NATURAL]
[PETVALUE:50]
[BODY:BASIC_2PARTBODY:BASIC_HEAD:SIDE_FINS:DORSAL_FIN:TAIL:2EYES:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTOKEN:TAIL:slap:slaps:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[SIZE:3]
[MAXAGE:20:30]
[NO_DRINK]
[CHILD:1][CHILDNAME:carp fry:carp fry]
[FAT:1]
[BIOME:RIVER_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER]
[BIOME:RIVER_TROPICAL_FRESHWATER]
[BIOME:LAKE_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER]
[BIOME:LAKE_TROPICAL_FRESHWATER]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:500]
}}
{{Creatures}}
[[Category:Animals]]

[[ru:Карп]]

40d Talk:Plate mail

2008-08-07T05:08:24Z

Dangerous Beans: /* how to make dwarves wear plate */

how much is platemail worth? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 19:37, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:Just about all items have their base and multipliers [[Value|here]]. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 20:05, 5 January 2008 (EST)

== how to make dwarves wear plate ==

I've set a lot of dwarves to wear plate in order to get it out of my stockpile. As soon as I draft them, they put it on, but when I relieve them, they put it back in the stockpile. is there any way to make them wear it when they're not soldiering? is there any reason they shouldn't wear it around town, as it were? --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 18:23, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

: I believe you can do this by turning on their "Hunting" labor, but at the same time they will actively hunt things. Since wildlife (apparently) can be depleted rather quickly, this might work. [[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 22:54, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

::You would think that 100 dwarfs running around in plate with crossbows would quickly deplete the local wildlife, so it might work. Only problem is they might get attacked by goblin raids while all on their own. I'll give it a try once my current fort starts cranking out armour. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 01:08, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Food

2008-08-05T12:51:10Z

Dangerous Beans: /* Question about the Z screen */

== Rate of consumption ==

Does anyone know the rate at which dwarf eats food? --[[User:Okita|Okita]] 01:18, 6 June 2008 (EST)

:Someone calculated it way back in the 2D days. IIRC, they came up with 6 food and 18 drink per dwarf per year, but I don't think that was very accurate. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:49, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

== Starvation ==

Once my [[butcher]] starts ''hunting for small creatures'' - how do I get him to actually slaughter an animal so everyone can eat?
Or do I need to make someone else a butcher so my butcher can have a snack?

Why does this shite always happen when the merchant turns up?? ;) [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:36, 13 February 2008 (EST)

::This is beacause your dwarves are very hungry and start looking for vermin to eat. [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 02:48, 23 June 2008 (EDT)

== Hunger bug ==

First of all, i'm a new user, so if this needs putting somewhere else or whatever, just send me an e-mail or something. Anyway, I have a bug that keeps crippling my fortress. Sometime halfway through the year, my dwarfs (dwarves? i dunno :S) stop eating. completely. they then get hungry, tantrums kick off, and chaos ensues. any tips?
--[[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 05:34, 1 March 2008 (EST)

::Do you have food? If so, what KIND of food? They can't eat raw dead things, and they can't even eat butchered dead things. They also can't eat most kinds of uncooked fish. Also, did you make a food stockpile? Food left outside of a food stockpile will mass rot before long. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 06:20, 1 March 2008 (EST)

::Yep, I have plenty of edible food ( non-rotten, stockpiled, etc). The food is definetly edible, but the dwarfs, after a while, jsut lose the will to eat! they still keep drinking, though ;)--[[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 12:55, 7 March 2008 (EST)

== Meals ==

Do Roasts fill up dwarves more than biscuits? It seems logical that they would but I'm not sure. Also, do roasts take longer to eat? --[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 00:20, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

:AFAIK, no. And it's not logical. Suppose you take 2 units of meat to make two bisquits, or four units of meat to make four roasts. Why would roasts be any larger?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:25, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

::Oh yeah... Well, then what's the advantage of making biscuits over roasts? Am I missing something?--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 04:39, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

::: None. With roast you get bigger meal stacks that are more likely to not fit in barrels - good cos you save barrels. You have a higher chance per meal that you please the preference of a dwarf. You have half the number of items - less clutter. Some people claim that the cook collects more experience from easy meals since he cooks more, but i cant confirm. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 10:41, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

::::A cook gets 30xp per meal, not depending on the size. That's been on the wiki since late 2006.
::::It might've not been written into the new wiki yet, though. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:55, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
:: let's see - if you combine [info on DF] with [2006] what do you get? ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:31, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::Ok, thanks for clearing it up.--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 16:59, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

== Meal Value ==

I was just wondering if anyone has done any research into how the value of prepared meals is calculated. I was somewhat curious because in my current fort I happened to notice that two stacks of masterpiece roasts were created of value 544☼ and 164☼, neither of which values is divisible by 12 (the masterpiece value modifier). In the case of both roasts, all the ingredients were plump helmet spawns. Also, how is overall meal quality decided? I had previously assumed that it was the highest quality out of the individual ingredient qualities, but in the case of the 544☼ meal all four ingredients were superiorly minced. I know that having a high quality ingredient in amongst low quality ingredients does bump up the overall quality, as with the 164☼ meal, which was 1 masterfully minced and 3 finely minced ingredients. Also, another oddity that I've just noticed: I got another "masterpiece" message, and took a look. "☼Plump helmet spawn roast [4]☼ This is a stack of 4 superiorly prepared Plump helmet spawn roast." I didn't see what the other two said, so perhaps the value is based off the description overall quality rather than the item name symbol quality?--[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 00:32, 23 June 2008 (EDT)
:Ok, so I managed to answer my own question by looking up the [[Item value]] page. Never mind then.--[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

== Question about the Z screen ==

When I press "z", and go into the menu, it tells me my food stores are well over 500. However, I am very low on meat, fish, and plants. The only category which has a high number is "other". What type of food is considered "other"? Is it cooked/prepared food? Any help would be great.
: Cooked food is in the "other" category.[[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 08:51, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Things to Do

2008-08-05T00:31:44Z

Dangerous Beans:

Oh my... Why does weird wiki-stuff keep happening to me? Now I saved a new page, and this blank page comes up, telling me this page "needs to be edited" or "created" or whatever. So I edit it, and save it again (What I thought was the same page..) Now there are two new pages, only difference is a question mark... --''Uberubert''

Question marks don't work very well in titles, especially when the title is used in the URL for the page. Why have you made this page? Couldn't it have been merged in with a FAQ or some other guide? --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]

Should there really be a reference and link to hidden fun stuff in a game basics FAQ? Might be considered a bit of a spoiler for the new players who come and read this.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 08:12, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

Um... that link leads to losing [[User:Yaddy1|Yaddy1]] 18:38, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

== Move ==

This page should have a better title. "Fortress Goals", "Fortress Objectives", or "Things to Do". Anything like that would be better than having a page title that is a question itself. If someone agrees on a title we'll move it there.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 14:47, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

:Edit: Moved it to a different title.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 18:05, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
::Sigh. You mind editing the Template to match if you're gonna do that? [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:13, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:::Not at all.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 06:00, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

== Kill Elves ==

How the heck do you kill elves and how do you sign your name on a discussion edit?

: 1. I'm not sure, probably through bridge traps or something.

: 2. With a 'Quadrupal ~'

: [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 14:08, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

::Upright spear traps should also work, or maybe caging a whole pile of nasty things around your trade center and setting them loose on the elves. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 20:31, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Clothing

2008-08-03T05:56:12Z

Dangerous Beans: /* Frequency ratings */

== masterpiece disentigration ==
Does masterpiece clothing disentigration still cause the maker to get all pissy over it?

If so, then it needs to be added to the article. --[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 13:31, 1 December 2007 (EST)

== mass-produce? discard old clothes? ==
I would like to see something on which clothes players should mass-produce to keep their dwarves happy. I'm really not sure myself. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 15:37, 6 December 2007 (EST)
: I second this request. Do dwarves automatically discard old clothes? It seems that my dwarves are buying new clothes at the stores, but then they still wear there old rotting trousers. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 11:01, 9 January 2008 (EST)
::In my experience they would discard old socks and boots, but will wear a dosen rotting dresses at once. Maybe some inv slots have limit on the clothes number, and some not? [[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:11, 9 January 2008 (EST)
: I recall a post on the forums that said it's best not to produce clothing at all, and start a dwarven nudist colony. That method is a simple solution that prevents unhappy thoughts from accumulating. I don't think it maximizes happiness, though, as Dwarves get happy thoughts from making satisfying acquisitions. [[User:Non|Non]] 03:50, 5 February 2008 (EST)
:: No good idea. Not having clothes gives an unhappy thought for every separate piece of clothes missing. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 16:00, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:::not so. dwarves get(used to, removed this version) an unhappy thought for LOSING each piece of clothing, but once its gone(or if they started with none) there is no unhappy thought. they are perfectly fine and happy being naked, once the sadness of rotting clothes wears off --[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 18:30, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:::: I once had the thought "XY was embarrassed to have no shirt lately". cant swear if he had one before that thought or not, but dont rotting clothes give a different thought "emb. about...clothes rot away"? It still might be that he gets that thought only once. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:56, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Artifact Cave Spider Silk Thong ==

All right, given that you probably ''are'' going to make exotic underwear with cave spider silk... couldn't it at least be something that the dwarf who made it was going to ''wear'' rather than something which is rare for humans?

Oh well, when my clothier passes over I will have something fantastic to sell which is also very light I guess![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:47, 2 February 2008 (EST)

== Why bother? ==

Am I missing something? Is there any reason at all to provide new clothes for dwarfs? --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 09:27, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:You mean other than the fact that if old clothes start to rot the dwarf wearing said clothing gets an unhappy thought? I highly doubt that's been removed since the last version I was semi-familiar with. --[[User:BDR|BDR]] 13:52, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:: Ah. Well, I built a HUGE dining room. Its taken two years to fully smooth it, but now any dwarf who eats instantly becomes either ecstatic, happy, or, if they're whole family was killed and they had to sleep on the ground by the rotting corpses, they might just be content. Wow, writing that once again reminded me how totally R rated this game would be if it were 3d. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 16:04, 28 February 2008 (EST)
::BDR- it was taken out in the latest release because of problems. Once it works right, Toady said he was going to bring it back, but for the current version and immediate future, clothes are just a waste of effort.--[[User:Erom|Erom]] 16:36, 28 February 2008 (EST)

== Frequency ratings ==
How common is common? It seems like every goblin invasion has had about 4 or 5 iron masks, about 50% of goblins, so it doesn't seem like they are that uncommon. Is this on the threshold of uncommon? Do others get this many masks? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 07:11, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

:Well, I've been playing for a couple months, and I've never seen one. So, uh, maybe it's something to do with the specific culture of the goblin civilization that's attacking you. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 14:01, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

::That would make sense, I might start a new fortress else where, and see if I get as many. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 01:56, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

Utility Talk:Tweak

2008-08-03T05:54:29Z

Dangerous Beans: /* New Versions */

== Suggested Addition(s) ==

How hard would it be to adapt [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Utilities#Regional_Prospector Regional Prospector] [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/User_talk:0x517A5D#Seekret_Projekt 1] [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/User:0x517A5D#Seekret_Projekt 2] to this application? 
From what I've seen of your newest tool, it looks like it should become the standard for future 'tweaks' :p 
Thanks tons for your contributions to the cause! --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:41, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

Oh, and one other idea...
Perhaps a small readme/guide for each of the tools? 
Something like those on the Utilities page would be fine. 

: It could probably be easily ported but I'm not sure I want to take someone elses work so quickly for Tweak. I am working on that kind of a list (see the Tile Edit link on the core modules list). —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 19:49, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

::List? RP doesn't make lists that I know of. And I know TileEdit can create magma/lava (which one is it btw? lava I'm guessing, since I don't think it can create a replenishing pipe in it's current form.) but unless I really get desperate, I'm not going to make a huge pool of lava to tap for various oddities. (i.e. traps/constructions) TileEdit's great for occasionally making a single tile of the stuff when it'd otherwise be a pain to get the liquid to the desired point, or for replenishing an already small source. Unless you're planning on making TileEdit capable of modifying regional tiles, (or alternatively, working like a designation for many tiles at once...) I don't see how it could relate to what RP does. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:31, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

:::As far as I can tell, the list in question is a list of readmes/guides like those on the Utilities page.
:::Magma = lava in an underground square. Lava = magma in an aboveground square. They are identical in all but name. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 19:52, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

::::Is there an as yet unidentified flag that causes replenishment? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 00:15, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

:::By 'list' I meant looking up what mineral types, etc, are in the current map. The module is called 'Survey', for obvious reasons. —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 00:39, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

::::Hmm.. well, unless you plan on doing that at an embark level, (as opposed to the in-fort level it sounds like,) it still won't be duplicating any effects that RP currently does. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 00:15, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

::::: I don't intend to duplicate the features of it. —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 01:04, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

== Help for the Noob(s) ==

Just downloaded the tweaker after some confusion, for the sake of healing the sole broker of my fort so he can get up and trade smartly enough to save my fort (to be filled with lava, but that's beside the point). Once I started it on up, all the modules but the address lookup were red, and the lookup only turns up <address name="starting_dwarf_count" value="0x00f77927"'.

I'm not entirely sure where to go from here... Any guide forthcoming?

: Red modules mean they are incompatible, I'm going to assume you are running on .38b, the latest is .38c, which Tweak has full support for. I did not bother to provide full support for .38b. —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 05:34, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

== Error report ==

For some reason, the latest version (1.2.0.1) crashes whenever I try to run it. This is with or without DF running. Version 1.1.0.0 on the other hand worked fine for me, and still does. This is the debugging info returned for the crash in 1.2.0.1:
An unhandled exception of type 'System.IO.FileNotFoundException' occurred in Gibbed.DwarfFortress.Tweak.exe

Additional information: Could not load file or assembly
'System.Core, Version=3.5.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b77a5c561934e089'
or one of its dependencies. The system cannot find the file specified.
This is with it directly extracted from the zip with proper folder structure, no changes made. I've also tried moving it out to a root folder on the drive in case the long path was confusing it with no success. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 01:04, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

: Sounds like you don't have .NET 3.5 installed. —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 01:53, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

:: Did version 1.1.0.0 not require it? That version has been working fine, and I could have sworn I had to install the .NET 3.5 Framework to get it working.
:: However, whatever the case, I've just (re?)installed the 3.5 framework and that does indeed seem to have taken care of it. Thanks. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 02:38, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

::: I wasn't using any features of 3.5 yet -- which changed with 1.2.0.0. —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 03:40, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

Found an error in the adjust profile module, happens when I click the "reset profile" button when "reset/read/write all" is checked.
System.ArgumentException: 'child' is not a child control of this parent.
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlCollection.GetChildIndex(Control child, Boolean throwException)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlCollection.GetChildIndex(Control child)
at Rinn.DwarfFortress.Tools.AdjustProfile.Configuration.textBox_TextChanged(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnTextChanged(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.TextBoxBase.OnTextChanged(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.set_Text(String value)
at System.Windows.Forms.TextBoxBase.set_Text(String value)
at System.Windows.Forms.TextBox.set_Text(String value)
at Rinn.DwarfFortress.Tools.AdjustProfile.Configuration.buttonReset_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
[[User:Cheapweed|Cheapweed]] 18:01, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

: Please report that [[User_talk:Rinn/AdjustProfile|on Rinn's AdjustProfile talk page]] —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 22:33, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

== NET 3.5 Compatability ==
Just a quick FYI: Those of us on 2000 cannot (as far as I've been able to determine) install .NET 3.5, which makes it impossible to use the latest version of Tweak. Keeping the 1.1 version online maintains availability of this invaluable tool to those of us who refuse to be infected with the XP virus. —[[User:Rochndil|Rochndil]] 14:49, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

: While I do use .NET 3.5 features, I will see if I can move to .NET 2.0 (or make a 2.0 compatible version). —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 22:58, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

: Or leave it. Seeing as its an 8 year old Operating system that you can't buy any more. More to the point if you are running DF your computer is more than adequate for running Windows XP. --[[User:Gorfob|Gorfob]] 19:00, 14 July 2008 (EDT)

== Blue modules ==
I just installed Tweak for the first time and I seem to have a problem. The buttons beside all the modules are blue, not green like in the picture, and the modules don't appear to do anything. I am running DF version 0.27.176.38c and Tweak version 1.2.0.0. I tied to update to version 1.2.0.1 but it still shows as the old version.

: If your Tile Edit is 1.1, not 1.0, you have 1.2.0.1. As for blue modules, you need to 'Select Process' before you can use anything. There is an option to automatically select a process on startup. Once you do this, modules will either turn red or green as like before. —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 22:58, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

== Windows Installer 3.1 ==

It says I need Windows Installer 3.1. Help? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 19:12, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

:Tweak does, or the .NET 3.5 install does? —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 22:58, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

::Sorry. .NET 3.5 install does. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:41, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

:::What operating system are you using? [http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=889482fc-5f56-4a38-b838-de776fd4138c&displaylang=en Windows Installer 3.1 Redistributable] —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 12:16, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

::::Windows XP Home Edition Version 2002 Service Pack 2.
::::Out of curiosity, what does that 3.1 installer do? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:55, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

:::::It's for MSI installers I would assume. Though I'm not sure how you don't have the Windows Installer 3.1 on XP. —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 22:49, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

== Freezing Tile Edit ==

For some reason, whenever I edit a tile using the Tile Edit programme, the next dwarf to step on the tile freezes to death (as will the many dwarves who come to loot the corpse). In the tile edit window, in the temperature section, it shows 0 in the first box (always) and another number of around 12000 in the second. The values by themselves give no indication as to the temperature, and even when I leave them alone, simply changing the tile will result in it becoming a freezing tile of death.
I have no idea if anyone else is experiencing this with tile edit, or whether I'm doing something horribly wrong.
{{unsigned|Maw3193}}

:I get this whenever I try to add water to a square. The water freezes into a block of absolute-zero ice, and freezes to death anybody who steps on it. It doesn't happen when I add magma, or change magma depth. The title bar says version 1.2.0.0, but TileEdit is 1.1 so I guess it's actually 1.2.0.1 (see above) [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:56, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
::Tile Edit is broken like this. You need to manually set a temperature for EVERY tile you edit. Rick, fix it! >8( --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 15:44, 3 May 2008 (EDT)
::Also, as an addendum, the top temperature is the NEW temperature for the tile, the bottom temperature is the CURRENT temperature. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 15:45, 3 May 2008 (EDT)
::It's not just absolute-zero. According to the Dwarf Fortress temperature scale, it's over nine thousand degrees below absolute-zero :) – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Maw3193|Maw3193]]

:::Before editing any of the tile, press Reset first, it should fill the first temperature in for you. --[[User:SP2|SP2]] 19:20, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

::::Still doesn't work for me, I've tried all of this. I've set the temperature about five different times.. still the freezing tile of DOOM. --[[User:Jaxstrife|Jaxstrife]] 20:51, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

:::::I've identified the bug and it will be fixed in the next release. —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 08:16, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

== Developer page ==

I'm interested in making a module for Tweak, will there be more info soon about contributing to it?
(if there is a page I couldn't find that talks about it, feel free to let me know :)
--[[User:Corc|Corc]]

: There hasn't really been any demand for it, but now that there is I'll fill out some info for you. —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 01:33, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

:: [[User:Rick/Tweak/Development|I've added some preliminary information to the development page]]. —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 17:41, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

How easy would it be to get started with writing a module? I assume Tweak handles the memory editing, but does it hand the module a bunch of bytes, or a fully parsed structure? I'd be interested in at least trying to write up a module.. Maybe you could just post the source for Heal or one of the other simple modules. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 18:57, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

I would just like to add my vote for a .NET 2.0 version since 3+ causes severe problems on my system trying to connect to M$ all the time :P

:I downloaded 3.5 and even got the express versions of Visual Studio to play with. I believe there is an option to "check" when you install that will stop it from contacting MS--I was asked a few times.
:--[[User:Corc|Corc]] 23:57, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

: Tweak's memory access doesn't deal with structures, but does allow for easy reading of common data types (and raw memory, if that's your deal). Reading structures may come in the future, though. —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 17:41, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

== Adjust Start: Less Than Seven Dwarves Crashes Game Upon Embarking ==

Crash replicated on two different computers both running windows XP both using .38c version of DF. Different parameter set worlds and different local areas still results in crash, as does both embarking carefully and not carefully. When it crashes I get an error message from windows saying that "dwarffort.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close." I have tested this for 1, 4, and 6 dwarves with the game crashing, and found that with 10 dwarves it did not crash.

== Reveal ==

(Debated about putting this here or on your sample code discussion.) To test out making a new module (very easy btw, awesome) I modified reveal to just reveal interesting stuff like ore and gems. Instead of releasing a whole new (very similar and 99% your code) module maybe you could add a quick if statement/popup that people could check when they run it? Basically what I did was inside the nested for loops I added in getting the "type" data and if the type was for an event, <code>B8 01</code>, then I'd let it do your unhide bit.

<pre>
memory.Read(block + designation, ref data);
memory.Read(block + typeoffset, ref types); // added types, half the size of data, (256 * 2)
for (int i = 0; i < 16 * 16; i++)
{
byte[] temp = BitConverter.GetBytes(BitConverter.ToInt16(types, i * 2)); // actual type
if (temp[0] == 184) // I found that 0xB8 is all that is needed to check
{
byte[] newdata = BitConverter.GetBytes(BitConverter.ToUInt32(data, i * 4) & ~0x200);
data[(i * 4) + 0] = newdata[0];
data[(i * 4) + 1] = newdata[1];
data[(i * 4) + 2] = newdata[2];
data[(i * 4) + 3] = newdata[3];
}
}
</pre>

This unhides only Gems, Ore, "Special" Stone like Orthocast, adamantine and any other out of the ordinary biome stone.

I thought about making a crazy convoluted module that would scan the map for types of events and let the user enable the ones they wanted unhidden and then unhide them. But, after going into the event list and finding event IDs (I've got a complete list now) I found it to be too crazy... actually as I typed that I figured out how I could do it with about a forth of what I had coded earlier.
--[[User:Corc|Corc]] 04:04, 11 May 2008 (EDT)

== .NET install freeze? ==

Does .NET ever finish installing? As I write this it's been sitting with a full progress bar for 35 minutes, and took an inordinate amount of time to even get there. (And the bootstrap downloader was completely unusable, kept losing progress.) 
As far as I can tell, it's not even spinning the HDD... though it went through long periods of that before, too. 
Addendum: Rebooting on its own didn't help, but rebooting and aggressively killing running processes down to the bare-bones did... finally.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Shurhaian|Shurhaian]]

:That's some highly unusual behavior, and I would recommend a through virus and adware scan using atleast two versions of each. 
:For Viruses, [http://housecall.trendmicro.com/ Trend Micro] has a good online scanner, and [http://free.grisoft.com/ AVG] is a good offline scanner. 
:For Adware, [http://www.safer-networking.org/en/spybotsd/index.html Spybot S&D] is just about as good as it gets, and [http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx Microsoft] has a semi-decent one as well. 
:All of these are free. Hope this helps! If not, *could be* some core OS files have been damaged somehow, and *may* require a re-install. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:40, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

== Another on the 3.5 bug list ==

Allright; I have .net Framework 3.5 installed and its giving me the same error a guy midway up had;
the.......... IO.notfound thing

Okay scratch that i unzipped tweak again and its running fine.
it seems tweak doesnt like XP.

Your program has good tastes sir.

== Problem not otherwise found on here. ==
When trying to select a process, I get this error. Net framework 3.5 is installed.
<pre>
************** Exception Text **************
System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> System.InvalidOperationException: This implementation is not part of the Windows Platform FIPS validated cryptographic algorithms.
at System.Security.Cryptography.MD5CryptoServiceProvider..ctor()
--- End of inner exception stack trace ---
at System.RuntimeMethodHandle._InvokeConstructor(Object[] args, SignatureStruct& signature, IntPtr declaringType)
at System.RuntimeMethodHandle.InvokeConstructor(Object[] args, SignatureStruct signature, RuntimeTypeHandle declaringType)
at System.Reflection.RuntimeConstructorInfo.Invoke(BindingFlags invokeAttr, Binder binder, Object[] parameters, CultureInfo culture)
at System.Security.Cryptography.CryptoConfig.CreateFromName(String name, Object[] args)
at System.Security.Cryptography.MD5.Create(String algName)
at System.Security.Cryptography.MD5.Create()
at Gibbed.DwarfFortress.Tweak.GameVersionLoader.GetProcessHash(Process process)
at Gibbed.DwarfFortress.Tweak.ModulePicker.onSelectProcess(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.RaiseEvent(Object key, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripButton.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.HandleClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.HandleMouseUp(MouseEventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.FireEventInteractive(EventArgs e, ToolStripItemEventType met)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.FireEvent(EventArgs e, ToolStripItemEventType met)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStrip.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mea)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStrip.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
</pre>

:What version of windows are you running? —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 20:47, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== .NET 3.5 errors: Tweak not Vista compatiale? ==

I have installed .NET 3.5 and tried to run Tweak on my computer. However, It instantly crashes. Is there anything else I should have installed? I am running windows Vista.

Thanks.

:Can you please paste the exact error, I cannot help with problems without knowing specifics. —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 20:46, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

I Have the exact same problem, the error is the default vista error. i think this only happens with the newest version of tweak, as i used to beable to run it (though the tile editor never ran for me) —[[User:Corhen|Corhen]] 8:55, 15 July 2008

==Start Error==
Opening Tweak, the program crashes. There's no error message per se, it just doesn't open and give the default windows error message, and asks me if I want to send a report. Help?

:you need to install separately .NET 1.1 as well as .NET 2.0, .NET 3.5 does not install these previous versions....

Even with all versions of .NET that exist already installed, Tweak crashed on startup. I am using an up-to-date version of WinXP SP3. I hope that it causes no problems that I unfortunately have a German language version of XP. Proof of installed .NET versions: http://members.arstechnica.com/x/dio82/software.png

Error message:

EventType : clr20r3 P1 : gibbed.dwarffortress.tweak.exe P2 : 1.2.0.0
P3 : 47f19dc1 P4 : mscorlib P5 : 2.0.0.0 P6 : 471ebc5b P7 : 3404
P8 : 119 P9 : system.io.directorynotfound

Many thanks to potential fixes -[[User:Dio82|Dio82]] 08:36, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

I'd just like to note that I also have all three .NET versions downloaded and installed, and I still get the general Windows Vista error message (Tweak has stopped working, windows is searching for a solution... A program caused the program to stop working, windows will close the program). I've tried starting up Tweak before loading DF, during the DF title screen, and while playing a current fortress. I didn't, however, get the detailed error message described above. --[[User:Untelligent|Untelligent]] 21:57, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

:The above error message is part of the report that XP/Vista wants to send to Microsoft. Just click on details of the report when Vista prompts you about sending that report. --[[User:Dio82|Dio82]] 06:05, 5 July 2008 (EDT)

:It didn't prompt me for sending a report. --[[User:Untelligent|Untelligent]] 16:17, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

:This error is basically saying you did not extract Tweak correctly, the Tweak zip file contains several directories that Tweak needs to function correctly. —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 20:46, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

==Reveal and Profile Edit Issue==

I've downloaded your program and managed to get a few features working, such as the one that allows you to change your starting dwarf number and points. The two modules I wanted to use most, however, Reveal and Profile Edit, don't seem to want to work at all, and as far as I can tell, I'm not getting a program error so much as... I don't know, a failure to recognize something. I'm not a programmer, you'll notice.

When attempting to use Reveal at the regional map, I get [http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b296/Bitscape2000/RevealProblem.jpg this].

When attempting to use the Profile Editor at the "preparing carefully" screen, as it says, I get [http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b296/Bitscape2000/ProfileProblem.jpg this], and if I click the OK button it says [http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b296/Bitscape2000/ProfileProblem2.jpg this].

Apologies for the largish screenshots. Any idea what might help? --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 15:57, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

: The Reveal tool is only used while already embarked. Find a place to start your fortress, embark, and then run Reveal. And, keep in mind if you want to reveal all of the map you have to designate the bottom layer for digging completely then undesignated it BEFORE you run reveal--this will make DF load up the map for Reveal to find. As for the other errors, I'm not sure what is going on. Sorry. --[[User:Corc|Corc]] 18:36, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

::Thanks for the help with Reveal, that worked perfectly. I suppose I misunderstood the module. The Profile dealie is the one I ''really'' want to use, though! If anyone has insight on how to work it, I would be grateful. Thanks! --[[User:Anfini|Anfini]] 19:24, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

== Tile Edit Tile ID List ==

Further explorations with Tweak leave me convinced we're missing another memory location that holds each block's type. Sandy clay Wall in one area doesn't match up with the data I gathered for my table of IDs, and there isn't enough data to be customized in Tile Edit to account for all the possibilities of ores and gems. Unfortunately I'm not knowledgable enough, nor am I patient enough, to find this memory location. →[[User:Valarnin|Valarnin]] 19:37, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

: Tile composition and gem type are special cases that are not held in tile data, and they have not been completely understood. —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 19:58, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

:: Actually Gems and ore are understood. They are considered Events (from the memory hack page terms) and are flagged by a bitmap. The code sample I posted above, to add in finding only deposits of ore to Reveal, uses another 16x16 array to specify quickly that an event is taking place in that tile--then checks the bitmaps for what kind of ore (gem/ore/whatever) goes there. The events use the global tile ids which it gets from the raw files (and is in the order read in from those raw files). Using events you can add any type of deposit to the tile area (add sand to obsidian). When I was looking into the TileIDs I came to the conclusion that the IDs are in a pattern and the type of rock/soil is dependent on the biome set for that tile. IDs X -> Y for example will always be smooth walls, just of main biome material. What designates the Biome is probably another one of the 16x16 blocks of data--I just got on a side track and never figured out which one for sure. To test/confirm this, try finding a value that changes a stone type to a soil type then give that same soil TileID to a different kind of stone on another layer--it should turn into a soil type as well, but most likely not the same kind as before. Doing that on the first 2 layers of the map will make it easier since it usually has both rock and soil from the same biome. I started documenting this on my user page. --[[User:Corc|Corc]] 20:34, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

::: I'm not sure why you wrote that blurb instead of linking to my page on it. I know the gem stuff is known, I should have been more clear, I meant the composition/type regional layer muckery. —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 20:51, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

::::Sorry 'bout that. Which page are you talking about? There are so many, that when I was looking for info I really didn't know where to look for valid info. I wrote the blurb because he was talking about gems and ore specifically, and I guess I misunderstood your response. --[[User:Corc|Corc]] 21:34, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

::::: [[User:Rick/Memory_research#Mineral_Event]] —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 22:01, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

:::::: OK, great, I wasn't sure if there was a newer one made. Now Valarnin has a link and a short explanation to go with it. So now he may be inspired to continue having fun digging in the memory :) --[[User:Corc|Corc]] 00:38, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

::::::: I'm not sure I understand exactly what's going on there. Is the vector a pointer to the mineral event's location? It would be so much easier if this was mapped out in Tile Edit. Speaking of Tile Edit, is the source available? I may be able to modify it to show the extra info. →[[User:Valarnin|Valarnin]] 13:37, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

::::::: Okay, I built Corc's modification to Reveal and learned a bit from that, but I have no example of a GUI and I'm a C++ programmer, not a C# programmer. I need an example of a GUI. →[[User:Valarnin|Valarnin]] 14:11, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

:::::::: I was trying to do something similar myself. Just in case you didn't see it, here is a link to Rick's Dev discussion ([[User_Talk:Rick/Tweak/Development]]) which might be a better place to talk about all this. What I did was just go through the c# gui sample and copy and paste stuff in while reading about what does what. --[[User:Corc|Corc]] 14:26, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

== New Versions ==
Any Idea when we will have an update for the most recent versions? What is needed? What do us Noobs do to get it to work?--[[User:ERoberts|ERoberts]] 13:58, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

: I'm currently busy "in real life" with work so I can't tend to Tweak for the latest version of DF just yet. Aside from minor bugs with Tweak modules (such as the freezing bug with Tile Edit) there is no need for an update other than providing Tweak with data for the version you want to use it with. You can probably find the information needed for Tweak's XML files for the new version on Jifodus's user page. —[[User:Rick|Rick]] 05:20, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

:: Sorry its been a while since I've done this, do I still just put that info in a memory.ini file?

::: I've got something to do today, but if no one has done it yet, I'll try to get something available later tonight for people. --[[User:Corc|Corc]] 11:42, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

:::: You get the hash for the newest version, open up versions.xml, and add a new line such as this:
<version name="0.27.176.39c" hash="8f8cf06b1cd5ea102881a7cced767d4f" />
:::: Then, you copy the newest version's folder you have in the versions folder and rename it to the newest version. Finally, you change the data in each xml file to match Jifodus's user page. I've uploaded the newest versions and the versions.xml file for 39b and 39c here:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=309
:::: However, I couldn't get anything to do with creatures to work. I couldn't seem to find a value to put in for race_vector from Jifodus's page. Corc, if you happen to know, tell me and I'll update the file.

::::: Sorry to drop the ball. I don't think I could do much more than what was done already without spending a lot of time I don't have. Very grateful to whoever set that up (post your sig next time :P) --[[User:Corc|Corc]] 00:32, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

:::::: T'was me. I was a bit tired when I posted that. You could have checked the uploader on DFFD too. →[[User:Valarnin|Valarnin]] 02:47, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

::::::: Any chance of getting compatibility with 39e? --[[User:Deekin|Deekin]] 15:44, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

:Looks like Deekin beat me to the punch. Ditto on the 39e request. :) --Mozleron 12:46, 1 August 2008 (PDT)

If someone who knows how has the time, could you please add a section explaining how to get the hash for the new version? That way we can update this to work with new versions faster. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 01:54, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Clothing

2008-08-02T11:11:48Z

Dangerous Beans:

40d:Captured creatures

2008-08-01T16:38:31Z

Dangerous Beans: Using magma to burn closed cages

You can capture creatures in a variety of ways, including [[animal trap]]s for [[vermin]], [[Traps#Cage_Trap|cage traps]] for wild [[animal]]s and hostiles (like goblins), forcibly caging tame animals (see below), and you can also buy caged animals from traders. Caged animals do not require food or nourishment{{v|0.27.176.38c}}. The only case when a caged creature is fed is during its taming.

Below is a collection of some things you can do with creatures in [[cage]]s or other holding devices.

===Training and taming===
A dwarf with the [[animal training]] labor enabled can tame wild animals (including [[vermin]]) at a [[kennel]]. A tame animal has the tag '''(Tame)''' after its name and is safe to be released into the fortress. They will not attack your dwarves, and do not set off your traps.

Beware, creatures that have killed dwarves (or other friendly creatures {{verify}}) before being tamed are "un-tamable". Despite appearing tame, such a creature will go dwarf-killing as soon as it is released, with the added bonus of being immune to traps.

Elven merchants often sell caged animals, even some that can't normally be trained. According to a forum post, a tamed tiger purchased from the elves will act as a guard, attacking hostile creatures. This is supposedly also true for other animals.

Dragons and other [[megabeast]]s may also be tamed, but this requires a [[Dungeon master]]. Specifically, any vermin or creature with the [PET_EXOTIC] flag requires a dungeon master.

Tamed vermin and animals may be adopted as [[pet]]s by the dwarves, and animals may also be [[Butchery|slaughter]]ed for food. A colony of Muskoxen or some other peaceful animal can be used as a food source, by allowing them to breed, waiting for them to grow and then cutting down some of them in a [[Butchery]].

===Holding===
You can restrain creatures by fitting them in [[chain]]s or [[rope]]s, putting them in cages, or throwing them in [[pit]]s or ponds to reduce [[lag]] or prevent adoption as pets (so they remain slaughterable without tantruming owners).

* '''Cages''': An indefinite number of animals might be locked into one single cage. If you wish to fit your own tame animals into cages, you can do this by building a cage, and assigning some animals to it via the Building properties window (accessible by {{k|q}}). "Large animal caging" jobs will then be created, and dwarves will lock the hapless animals into the cage. Any offspring they give birth to is also born in the cage (But is not ''assigned'' to the cage, so your dwarves will free it if you don't stop them.). There is some doubt whether animals do breed in cages, but an already pregnant animal will definitly give birth while in a cage.

:Caveat — When an animal is captured via a [[Traps#Cage trap|cage trap]] and then assigned to an existing cage, the dwarf moving the animal will tend to let it go. This can be avoided by building the cage the animal is in.{{v|0.27.176.38c}}

* '''Chains/ropes''': Build chains as buildings and assign animals to them. They'll be able to move one tile in any direction (including up/down) but will not be able to leave.

* '''Pits/ponds''': You can designate an area as pit or pond by creating an activity zone, designating it as pit/pond and setting its properties by pressing {{k|P}}. The pit or pond area has to have some level tiles, and some tiles that are one or more Z-levels below. Ponds will be filled with water by your dwarves, using buckets. Beware that land animals generally do not like to remain in a dark pit instead of your magnificent fortress, so they'll break free at the earliest opportunity.

===Zoo===
[[Zoo]] areas may be defined from cages via the {{k|q}} menu for the enjoyment of your dwarves. Be aware that dwarves will receive unhappy thoughts from seeing an animal they dislike in a zoo, but will also gain happy thoughts if they can go to view a loved animal. Owning the cage containing a loved animal is even better.

===Execution===
Imaginative methods have been discovered for the abuse of caged creatures.

* '''Execution tower''': One method is the execution tower; the caged critter is brought on top of a very tall (~10 Z-levels) tower or to the edge of a chasm; the the edge of the tower (some of the tower and some of the abyss) is designated as a Pit/Pond; the animal in the cage is assigned to be in the pit/pond and unassigned from the cage. A dwarf will run up to the tower, pull the creature out of its cage and throw it down into the depth.

* '''Death chambers''': A cage can be opened remotely by attaching a [[lever]] to it. This allows for some horrible traps, such as the drowning chamber or magma death chamber. A room is set up next to a water or magma pool, separated from it by a [[floodgate]]; a cage is put into the room, and a lever is attached to it; doors leading into the chamber are locked down; the cage and the floodgate are opened remotely. The creatures will then drown or burn. (Magma will melt/burn non-magma-resistant cages along with whatever is inside it. However magma-resistant cages, and any underwater cage, must be opened for this to work because animals in cages do not drown.{{verify}})

* '''Arenas''': Remote cage opening can also be used to set up arenas; a tame animal such as a tiger or dogs is locked into the arena; a cage containing a hostile animal, such as a goblin (presumably stripped of its weapons and armor) is also brought in the arena; doors are locked down and the cage is opened. The animals will shred the goblin (or in a worse case, the creatures will kill off your animals - therefore it is wise to assign some guards to the doorways to put down any breakout attempts).

* '''"Gangplank"''': Goblins and other non-flying creatures do not like heights or magma. You can combine both by creating a hanging platform. When you want to execute the goblins on the platform, simply release them from their cages and disconnect the platform. Watch as the helpless little buggers fly down several Z levels and are incinerated in your magma pool. One way of doing so is by using a retractable bridge to support the platform, and simply retract the bridge to dump the prisoners. This is also a good way to use all ten thousand units of your [[stone]] for something useful.

===Other uses===
* '''Confiscating prisoner items''': You can strip a captured critter of its equipment by accessing the [[Stocks]] screen, finding its possessions, and ordering them {{k|d}}umped from there. Items on goblins are easily identifiable by looking for currently worn narrow/small clothing and weaponry. If you're in doubt whether an item you chose is indeed on your prisoners, {{k|z}}oom on it and you should be pointed to the cage. After you ordered the items dumped, dwarves will come and force the items off your captives.

* '''Usage as executor''': Instead of executing the trapped creature, one could execute a noble by placing a caged megabeast in its quarters and release the beast. Remember to also install a cage trap to recapture the beast afterward.

[[Category:Creatures]]

40d Talk:Captured creatures

2008-08-01T16:32:24Z

Dangerous Beans:

== Taming ==
It looks like animals that killed any "good" creatures (such as elves or humans) can't be tamed (will go rampart as soon as they are released from cages).
I've got my whole fortress sealed off, a dragon came, after being hit by few stone traps and killing whole elven caravan, it fell into a cage trap. I tamed him (I do have a Dungeon Master) but when I tried to chain him before the entrance he started to kill dwarfs as soon as he was released from cage. I'm 100% sure it didn't kill any dwarfs (only a war dog) before falling in to a trap, and I'm certain it killed at least one elf. I'm using 27.176.38c, not modded in any way. --[[User:Tomato|Tomato]] 02:58, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Just to clarify a little here, it doesnt seem that killing tame animals will trigger untamability, but if Tomato's experiences are anything to go by, watch out if other civilized entities have been slain. (I am reasonably sure that tame animals are ok, by an experimental process of de-stealthing a GCS by throwing a dog into its cave, taming it, and letting it wander around in my base for a month or so waiting for the death messages) --[[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] 10:30, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
== magma ==
Initial questions: will cages melt and its inhabitants be killed if magma is released onto it and the cage is non-magma-resistant?
:Yes, I burnt a bunch of useless donkeys and kittens this way. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 12:32, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

== breed in cages?==
I've done the cages to massive herds idea, but it doesn't work. They'll give birth just fine while in the cage (and the babies *won't* be locked in the cage, btw) but I've gone three years without a birth until a couple seasons after I released them all to presumably breed again. If you ask me, the ideal herd would be contained in a pit that's had access walled off, since (I believe) pathfinding lag isn't a factor when it's a wall, not a locked door.

Yea, I'm feeling a bit lazy right now, or I'd have edited this stuff into the article myself. Feel free to add it in and remove this, assuming I haven't just ended up in some weird situation where they just happen to have been pregnant for 3 years... --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:56, 10 January 2008 (EST)
: I am not exactly sure, but i think both a cow and a dog have given birth inside a cage after being in there for more than a year. So i toned down the statement in the article.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 10:02, 27 February 2008 (EST)

Actually, the babies born in cages thing is true, but it works this way: the baby is born in the cage but is not ''assigned'' in the cage. So when it's born, a dwarf will immediately rush to free it. (Tried this by building a cage behind forbidden doors and the baby remained in the cage.)

By the way, how do you put a timestamp behind your edit? This timestamp below I have manually typed in. --[[User:ShunterAlhena]] 09:12, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:use <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> or the button that looks like a signature ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 08:04, 11 January 2008 (EST)

== STOP HIM!!! ==

How am I supposed to put a captured goblin in an arena without letting the little bastard go? [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 00:05, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:A lever based enter/exit door for the arena so you can lock it, His combatent will probably have to be the one to let him go in that case. Or use a pit of some kind. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 04:01, 25 January 2008 (EST)
My problem more lies with transporting the goblins from an animal stockpile to my arena/pit, which simply had the goblin released from his cage. [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 04:32, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:Is there a problem with building a cage using the cage the gobbo's in? As for releasing... you do know levers work on cages too, right? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 05:37, 25 January 2008 (EST)
Just to clarify, I have a problem transporting the goblin, not releasing him. When I attempted to move him, the goblin was released in the animal stockpile. I'm not sure how to specify build the cage that the goblin is using, but that would probably work, yes. [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 05:52, 25 January 2008 (EST)
::You would {{k|b}}uild ca{{k|j}}e (yes its j to build a cage) [[User:Jikor|Jikor]] 06:51, 25 January 2008 (EST)

IIRC, in order to assign a creature to an existing cage, it first has to be taken out of the cage it's in and carried over to the new cage. However, the dwarf moving it in this way may suddenly realise they are carrying a dangerous 'thing' and drop it. This can be avoided by building the cage directly, which does not require taking the creature out. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:59, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:With the current (.38c) version I have noticed that transporting goblin soldiers is fine, the poor goblin just trails along and gets moved while goblin thieves will escape when tried to be moved. Perhaps it has something to do with sneaking vs not-sneaking. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 00:06, 10 April 2008 (EDT)
:I know for certian this behavior held in 0.23.130.23a. I imagine it probably hasn't changed since 0.27.169.33g. I tagged the article with 0.23.130.23a, so if someone knows better, please change it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 08:09, 25 January 2008 (EST)
Whenever I build the cage, the dwarves just bring an empty one. I still haven't figured out a way to build exactly the cage the goblins are in. [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 14:11, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:{{k|b}}uild menu -> ca{{k|j}}e [sic], then press e{{k|x}}pand list to see the indivudial cages with quality levels instead of a broader category list. Pick the one that's called "Goblin Cage(''materialname'')" and the dwarves will construct the cage with the gobbo still inside. Then link it up to a lever, station your executioner in a locked room with it, and yank the lever to start your pitfight. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 10:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)

== RE: Arenas section ==

Is it actually possible to strip the weapons and armour off a captured creature as suggested here? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 11:15, 26 January 2008 (EST)

: Yep, Check out the talk page for cages, under "Captured thieves" someone should probably integrate that info this article. --[[User:The Flying Febe|The Flying Febe]] 23:20, 3 February 2008 (EST)

== Sentry Animals? ==

Can tamed creatures be used as sentries? Or would I have to have a dwarf? 
--[[User:Lordmick134|Lordmick134]] 22:43, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

:Yes. Build a chain or rope and attach a tame creature to it, and it will have a good chance of spotting any nearby thieves or other sneaking creatures. I usually set up 2-3 chained critters in alcoves along my entry halls for that purpose. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 02:55, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

::Can caged animals see ambushers farther away than the 8 tiles adjacent to them? I figure they probably don't (in which case they're still plenty useful anyways), but it'd make it a lot easier to cover large areas if I don't have to put a cage every third tile. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 20:08, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

No. The best way is to set up some high-traffic areas, and make sure all your valuables are indoors and that any potential ambushers have to get past your security. For example;
:xxx
:xOx
:xxx

If you put your roped animal in the middle they will have access to all 8 tiles around them with very little chance of an enemy bypassing it. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:09, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:I was afraid of that. Ambushers getting into the fortress isn't a problem because I've already done what you describe (and racked up a hell of a kill count in the process =P ). I was just hoping for a better way to help keep ambushers away from stuff like road-builders and caravans that my Corridor of Doom can't protect. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:45, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Animal Training Labor ==

The article said only a dwarf with Animal Training activated will release animals. I had a dwarf releasing and caging animals with no labors active, except pump operating. Using 38c. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 15:31, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

:I don't know where it says that, so I'll leave it to you to fix it. You're correct; the article is wrong. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:48, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

::I already fixed it --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 20:31, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

User talk:Dangerous Beans

2008-08-01T16:30:28Z

Dangerous Beans: /* Sign your edits on talk pages */

{{welcome}}

==Sign your edits on talk pages==
To help everyone out, if you edit a "discussion" page sign your comments using four '''~''' characters or the signature button on the java toolbar. This lets everyone know who asked/said what.

Happy editing and welcome to the wiki![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 11:00, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
:Sorry, still getting the hang of wiki syntaxt. I'll remember in future. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 12:30, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Soap

2008-07-31T02:07:21Z

Dangerous Beans: New page: Can you actually build things out of soap? I'm going to have to give this a try, and make the cleanest fortress ever. Maybe build a swimming pool out of it and force my miners to have a ba...

Can you actually build things out of soap? I'm going to have to give this a try, and make the cleanest fortress ever. Maybe build a swimming pool out of it and force my miners to have a bath. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 22:07, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Stairs

2008-07-31T02:00:40Z

Dangerous Beans:

Looks to me like the "remove down stairs" option is missing. But if you rewall it ([b] - [C] - [w]), and then designate it for "Remove Construction" ([d] - [n]), that works to get rid of it. Or just rewall it and leave it as a wall. --Peristarkawan 20:44, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

You remove down stairs by building a floor ([b] - [C] - [f]) over them. "Down stairs" are just holes in the floor. [[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 19:45, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

It seems that building an up/down stairway is the easiest way to build underground. --Vbraun 21:06, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

I'm betting that dwarves can traverse ramps faster than stairs, but I haven't tested this yet. --Peristarkawan 21:18, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

I initially tried creating a ramp to dig upwards, and my miner refused to dig further on the upper level. Stairs work fine.--[[User:McFrugal|McFrugal]] 02:19, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:Ramps don't appear to knock out the ceiling of a tile, whereas stairs do. It looks like the main use for ramps is to provide access for anything bigger than a tile wide, such as a wagon or a group of dwarves, and presumably you'll already have access to both levels involved in the rampmaking.--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 19:38, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:: on the other hand, they will dig a ramp along with the ceiling, when digging from above.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 01:13, 11 January 2008 (EST)

<blockquote>Logs and stone(probably more, not fully tested) can not be transported on stairs, limiting their usefulness.</blockquote>
I dug a few levels underground using the shaft method of up/down stairs and trees chopped down on ground level could be carried into the fortress. So Logs can be moved through stairs. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 11:52, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:Rocks and any variation thereof can also be moved on stairs. I've been using the top of my mountain as a gigantic rock stockpile.--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 19:38, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

Strange, when I rewalled so that the only access to my tower was a stair I could no longer build floors out of wood that was lying outside. Building another ramp solved the problem, more testing obviously needed [[User:Otherdwarf|Otherdwarf]] 18:58, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

==Destroy up-down stairs==
Is there any way to destroy carved (not constructed) up-down stair? --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 01:13, 11 January 2008 (EST)
:You're kidding right? You just edited an article that answers that (and only that) exact question immediately before editing this talk... --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:41, 11 January 2008 (EST)
::No, I'm not kidding. The [[stairs]] article says how to destroy ''constructed'' stairs, carved up stairs and carved down stairs. it says '''nothing''' about carved up-down stair. neither method worked for me (at least in 33e)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 08:00, 11 January 2008 (EST)
:channeling --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 08:33, 11 January 2008 (EST)

==Removing Down Stairs (Again)==
The above comments are obsolete with the current version as far as I can tell. I accidentally build a down stair where I meant to have an up stair. Constructing a Up Stair on top of it wouldn't build, and neither would Constructing a Floor. So I tried making a channel through it as suggested above, and this did indeed remove the down stairs, however, it still reads as 'Blocked' when I try to make a floor over the hole. Are there any answers to this? [[User:Shadowics|Shadowics]] 00:30, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

== Hatch ==

Hatches should be included somewhere. enemies can use stairs as an entrance or shortcuts to enter a fortress and kill. i'd add that myself but i don't want to.

== How to ==

Signed up just to ask this. How do I get the stupid things to work? I built down stairs and mapped out an irrigation system for my miners to work out down there and they haven't touched it (been about an in game year, during which they did have alot of free time with no tasks on any level). Additional info that should be provided, how many squares are needed to go down, just one or 3 per level or something? What version were they added in (I used to play a version that had a single level, when you always dug to the east and there was always a river and magma and adamantine). All in all consider that the people you may be informing don't know nearly as much about the game as you do, I have alot of friends that would like this if simple instructions and explanations were provided, but with those lacking theyed probably play like 1 hour, ever.

:Did you build up or up/down stairs on the level below, or just a series of down stairs one below the other? The up and down stairs function as the bottom and the top respectively of a staircase. So build a down stair where you want the top of the staircase to be, an up stair where you want the bottom to be, and up/down ones between them. Each time you press the < or > key moves you to a different level, and you only need a staircase on that level and above or below to get access. So you only need to go down one square per level, unless you want to go down 3 and have a fortress with massively thick floors. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 22:00, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Hauling

2008-07-29T01:13:20Z

Dangerous Beans: /* Strength building */

Will dwarves automatically haul whatever they need to make something (e.g.: wooden barrel) at a workshop, or does the specific hauling setting for that item type (e.g.: wood hauling) need to be activated? --[[User:Wabbiteh|Wabbiteh]] 21:58, 7 March 2008 (EST)

:Dwarves automatically gather raw materials needed to produce things. Hauling is only needed to move things into stockpiles or dump them in a designated dumping zone. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 22:57, 7 March 2008 (EST)

== Strength building ==

This article could use some more details, such as the fact hauling stone is a good method for building strength of dwarves (namely, soldiers in training). If anyone knows the formula, and if it applies to more than just stone, that may be helpful.{{unsigned|Eddie}}18:56, 5 July 2008
:I have rock haulers - who have no other task enabled - who have been rock haulers for several years. They are no stronger then when they started. Miners develop strength far more quickly and it would seem pump operators too but I haven't done anything with pumps yet.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:17, 6 July 2008 (EDT)
: According to the [[experience]] page Dwarfs only gain attributes from tasks associated with a skill. As there is no hauling skill, dwarfs don't get strength from lugging stone around.

40d:Mega construction

2008-07-26T11:27:15Z

Dangerous Beans: Added method for widening towers half way up

There comes a time in every dwarfs life when he says to himself- why not? Be it magma waterfalls, huge castles, skyscrapers, great cathedrals, you can build anything!

==Construction Techniques==

Building a large number of anything can be a real pain, to speed up the process it is recommended that you create a stockpile filled with only the correct stone/block type either inside or as close to as possible to your construction. This way the material will always be at the top of the list when your constructing.

It is also important to remember that you cannot build on top of a constructed floor.

===Towers===

It is easy to make costly mistakes when constructing towers- generally because they are built from the inside and dwarfs cannot build walls diagonally.

It is recommended that you complete two opposing walls first and then add in the other two- this avoids the problem of the corner walls becoming inaccessible.

Step 1- Central Staircase:

X

Step 2- Surrounding floor:

...
.X.
...

(repeat until the required width is attained)

Step 3- First two walls:

#####
...
.X.
...
#####

Step 4- Second walls:

#####
#...#
#.X.#
#...#
#####

This assumes that you have walls in the same pattern on the z-level below. If you don't, say if your building an inverted pyramid or widening a tower half way up, the corner walls will be inaccessible. To get around this you can build a few squares of free standing floor, construct the corner walls, and then disassemble the floor. Ensure that the corner walls are supported before removing the extra floor or else they will collapse.

Step 1 - build stairway and floor as above:

...
.X.
...

Step 2 - Add extra floor:

.....
.X.
.....

Step 3 - Build first two walls:

#####
.....
.X.
.....
#####

Step 4 - Remove excess floor:

#####
...
.X.
...
#####

===Scaffolding===

Building rows and rows of up/down stairs will allow you to build large walls without having to worry about getting the workers and materials up there.

Be careful when you're dismantling them that each row is removed one at a time, starting from the top!

You may also consider building the scaffolding ''inside'' the building you are constructing, ensuring that the entire ground floor wall is constructed. Then you wont create any surprise back doors into your fortress.

===Sloped Roofs===

Sloped roofs can be created by building a row of walls adjacent to the top of a wall, a row of ramps can then be built directly on top of the wall giving access to the top of the adjacent wall. Now just build a second wall adjacent to this one and repeat.

==Viewing==

Most mega structures look best when using a 3D tool, there are however some restrictions involved.

===3Dwarf===

All walls regardless of material will show up the same, the only difference is fortifications which will show up a lighter shade of blue.

All ramps and stairs regardless of materials will show up as wood.

Single ramps will show up as square pyramids but ''only'' if there are no adjacent walls that are one z-level higher than them.

A row of single ramps will not join together as a 'toblerone' shape, instead they will show up as a row of square pyramids.

==Examples==

===Cathedral to the Blood God===

[[Image:Cathedral-Cutaway.jpg]]

[[Image:Cathedral-Tower.jpg]]

[[Image:Cathedral.jpg]]