Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.34:Macros and keymaps

2012-05-24T08:05:54Z

DeMatt: /* Tuning macros */

{{av}}
{{Quality|Exceptional|14:18, 4 April 2011 (UTC)}}
Playing Dwarf Fortress means lots of typing. The game has an internal macro/keymap system. Using it or any external program can save you a great deal of time when dumping, rewalling, designating, and so forth.

== DF macros ==
=== Creating macros ===
The controls for creating macros within DF are as follows:

*{{k|Ctrl}}+{{k|r}} = record
*{{k|Ctrl}}+{{k|p}} = play
*{{k|Ctrl}}+{{k|s}} = save
*{{k|Ctrl}}+{{k|l}} = load

To create a macro press {{k|Ctrl}}+{{k|r}} to begin recording your actions. When you have recorded all the action you want stop recording by hitting {{k|Ctrl}}+{{k|r}} again and save ({{k|Ctrl}}+{{k|s}}) the macro. The macro is then added to your macro list. To load a macro from the list just press {{k|Ctrl}}+{{k|l}}. You can then play the macro using {{k|Ctrl}}+{{k|p}}.

There is a directory data/init/macros for them. The macros are saved in .mak format. Even a recorded file for a simple macro - for example to create a 3 tiles wide ramp - may already consist of up to 50 commands listed. This is because every possible [[Key_bindings|binding of the key pressed]] is included in the macro and put in a block (and {{k|r}} for ramp has many by default).
<pre>
pressing_enter_recorded
SELECT
CLOSE_MEGA_ANNOUNCEMENT
WORLD_PARAM_ENTER_VALUE
SETUPGAME_SAVE_PROFILE_GO
D_BURROWS_DEFINE
D_MILITARY_ALERTS_SET
End of group
CUSTOM_CTRL_R
End of group
End of macro
</pre>
For this example the recording was started, enter was pressed and the recording was stopped. When using this macro every underlying command in the file will be called, if possible. If you are in the designation menu, it will react as a select, the other commands will be ignored. If you are in the burrow menu, it will work like pressing enter there. The macro alway ends with a block containing the end of it's recording. But executing macros seems to ignore this command. If you have changed your key bindings you'll get another result, because the underlying commands are recorded, not the keys pressed. 
When creating or editing your own macros it is a good idea to use only those commands you really want.
<pre>
ramping_created
DESIGNATE_RAMP
End of group
CURSOR_DOWN_Z
End of group
SELECT
End of group
CURSOR_RIGHT
End of group
CURSOR_RIGHT
End of group
SELECT
End of group
CURSOR_LEFT
End of group
CURSOR_LEFT
End of group
CURSOR_UP
End of group
End of macro
</pre>
This selfmade example will designate a 3 tiles wide ramp one z-level below and place the cursor to make the next execution of the macro continue the way down. The first line has to be the name of the file. You can see that there are grouping tags for every single keypress. These are important for a working macro. 
It is unknown if there is the possibility of creationg loops/iterations, other programming features or comments. 
There seem to be problems with changing removing and adding macros while the game is running. Save, quit and restart the game when you want to change something.

=== Tuning macros ===
The fewer commands a macro consists of, the faster it runs. This means you should avoid unnecessary steps by optimizing the "path" of your designations.

The second and most effective way to increase speed is to remove all unnecessary commands DF recorded with an external texteditor. The extra commands are ignored by the game but they still take time to be processed. To move a cursor 3 (up/down) or 4 (right/left) commands are recorded, most other keys are bound to more commands. Pressing {{k|d}} for example records more than 30 commands. Depending on what you do, you can increase the speed by 4 or more by reducing the number of commands in every group to the one you need. ''If you edit a macro, you'll have to restart DF afterwards.''

The third way is to change settings in the init-files. In the base init file (data/init/init.txt) you will find the follow lines:
<pre>
If you set KEY_REPEAT_ACCEL_LIMIT above one, then after KEY_REPEAT_ACCEL_START repetitions
the repetition delay will smoothly decrease until repetition is this number of times faster
than at the start.

[KEY_REPEAT_ACCEL_LIMIT:8]
[KEY_REPEAT_ACCEL_START:10]

This controls the number of milliseconds between macro instructions.

[MACRO_MS:15]

</pre>
This means that the speed between macro commands will gradually increase until it hits the limit. The secondary command is when the gradual increase in speed increases.

== External utilities ==

=== [http://joelpt.net/quickfort/ QuickFort] ===
A spreadsheet-driven construction tool for Dwarf Fortress. Converts CSV files containing a "graphical" (or at least two-dimensional) representation of what you want to build into efficient DF macros. Comes with a number of scripts to get you started, some of them quite complex.

=== AutoHotKey ===
# Go to [[Utilities#AutoHotKey]] and download AutoHotKey. Installation is simple and the program uses few system resources.
# Write macro scripts (file type .ahk), which may contain any number of commands. You activate scripts by double-clicking .ahk files and deactivate them by right-clicking the AutoHotKey icon on the task bar. Both of these can be done at any time - even right in the middle of a game. AutoHotKey also allows for automated activation of scripts.

=== Fluxbox + xvkbd ===
For linux, it's a quite cool solution. It's possible to create macros with outside tools, like fluxbox (linux window manager) + xvkbd (linux virtual keyboard for kiosks, with some macro capabilities). See the documentation [[Fluxbox_macros|here]].

*Pros
**Faster executations
**Easier script writing
**Portable code
*Cons
**Sometime needs timing
**Need xvkbd (Linux at least)
**Need some special key reservation

:'''Please see also the [[40d:Macros and Keymaps|40d macros page]], as much of what is there works perfectly fine. If you can verify it works, please move it to this page.'''

== Some macros ==
=== Large bedroom's bed placing ===

Ok, so you can record some macro, to build a large repeating bedroom. So you setup the build menu (select the bed, and go the position you want to place). Just start a new macro, and place a bed, select the first bed from the list, and move about 3-4 tiles right. Repeat this until you reach the limit, or you are satisfied. Turn off macro recording (don't exit the build menu). You can save your macro (not necessary). Go to 3-4 tile under the place, you first placed a bed (most left of the bed row). Make sure, the bed are selected from the build menu, and you are selecting position to build it. Press the play macro (Ctrl + p), and you have just another row. Repeat, until you have enough bedrooms, or out of beds.

=== Large bedroom's placing cabinets ===

You can reuse the above macro, for placing cabinets / coffers / bags / tables / chairs. Select the cabinet from build menu, and go above the first bed position, and press the play macro (Ctrl + p), and fill your bedrooms with cabinets.

=== Large bedroom's placing coffers ===

If you want to place coffers, but not bags, it's a bit trickier, but you will see how can done. Pause the game (will save you from a lot of spam from the dworfs). Go to stock, inventory, and bags and bins. Forbid all bags, regardless, what's in it /used for (this is temporary). Exit, to main screen. Build, coffers and bags, and go to where you wish to place the first coffer (maybe left of first bed). Press the play macro (Ctrl + p). Because all the items disabled what we don't want to build from that build category, only coffers will be build. Repeat until bedroom is filled with coffers / you're out of coffers. Don't forget to unforbid all the bags, so the dwarfs can carry on, as nothing has happened. You can unpause the game, and watch, as your working dwarfs hauls the big bedroom together. You can invert the forbidding to place only bags.

=== Large bedroom's resizing all beds ===

If the bedroom is finished (at least all the beds are hauled to place), you may want to create a new macro, to create the exact bedrooms. Use the info of a building (q), and select the first bed. Start a new macro (Ctrl + s), and press r and the + for a few times (resize the bedroom). If you are fine with the size of the bedroom, you can press enter, and go on for the next bed, and repeat this for the whole row. Remember, because this will be a macro, and if you want bedrooms that fill all the room, you may have to press + a bit more or less for the edge beds. If you finished the first row, stop the recording (Ctrl +r), and you can save this macro too. Repeat this for the rest of the rows.

=== Mass selector ===

With this macro, you can select a lot of things at once. Most helpful, if you want to sell a lot of junk to the caravans. So, basically, you just record: '''enter down''' in a row about 10-25 times. (can make an alternate with '''enter +'''.) So, the caravan arrives, your dwarfs haul all the bins for selling. At trade menu, you select for trade all the stuff, the trader have, and you would like to buy. go to your items, and load the macro, and play it as many times, as you want. Because if a bin is selected it will be sold with all the items inside. But if after any of the content is selected, the bin will not be sold. After you selected all the stuff for selling, it's a good idea to just brows what you exactly selling, just for sure (not to sell any wood to elfs).

=== Mass trap builder ===

It's basically just the same as the bed building, only with 1 tile moving. (It will build a bunch of traps next to each other).

==== Troubleshooting Scripts ====
Users may experience some issues in getting scripts to work, particularly when using looping scripts when experiencing low frame-rates.
* If experiencing low frame-rates, try adding delays ("Sleep 100" to pause for 100 milliseconds for example) within loops to allow the interface to keep up. If there are nested loops, sometimes adding a pause at the end of an inner loop is all that is needed to flush the keyboard buffer
* Another way to add delay during and after each simulated key press is to put SetKeyDelay, 40, 40 at the start of the macro.
* Make sure that Dwarf Fortress maintains focus. IM windows are the enemy! Who needs friends anyhow? You've got Dwarf Fortress.
* This may go without saying, but most macros assume standard key-mappings. If you're using non-standard ones, you may have to edit the macro to get it to work.
* Visiting liaisons can bring up screens that eat keystrokes, throwing a long-looping script out-of-phase with where it expects the game to be. Wait for the farewell screen before running a long script.
* The SendPlay function supports keys that the Send function does not, for example {{key|Shift-Enter}}. According to the AutoHotKey documentation, SendPlay may also be better at preventing dropped keystrokes.

==== General Fortress Mode Hotkeys Script ====
An attempt at speeding up various designations. Includes an up/down stair builder, a fast move up/down, and some select-and-advance keys. Please see [[user:DDR#Dwarf_Fortress_General_AHK_Script]].

{{av}}

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Versions

2011-02-28T07:06:48Z

DeMatt: /* Version 0.31.19 starts a new DF generation? */ new section

{{archive|
# [[DF Talk:Versions/Archive 1|Page 1]]}}

== Version 0.31.19 starts a new DF generation? ==

My reading of Toady's comments on the release of 0.31.19 is that it came out basically because he felt it would take too long to get DF all the way to 0.32. With the ore changes, the sitefinder changes, the addition of grazing and several different industries, there's a lot of changes between 31.18 and 31.19. So I'm thinking it might be a good idea to call it the first release of DF2011 - and what we refer to as "DF2010" would then become 0.31.18.

Thoughts? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:06, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

v0.31:Make your own weapons

2011-02-28T07:00:31Z

DeMatt: Versioning alert.

{{Quality|Fine}}
{{av}}
<center>''Please note that this article has yet to be updated for version 0.31.19, and is written with the previous version 0.31.18 in mind.''</center>

Since anvils only cost 100 embark points now, making your own weapons is easier than it was before. Also, your training axe (which somehow fells trees) can be made at the {{L | Carpenter's workshop}} (and a better one forged later with the abundance of minerals), so only one copper nugget and one anvil, and one stone is needed for a minimalist/survivor build.

The embark savings are very high now, as buying the default pick and axe costs 112 embark points, the same as the anvil and two copper nuggets (and with the second deal, you get an anvil for making whatever!). The training axes at embark save a lot, only costing 61 with the pick. The anvil, one wood, and one copper nugget only cost 109 points, only 48 points more expensive (and as before, you get an anvil).

Keep in mind that these plans don't include the cost of any skills, or of any reusable tools. You don't need the skills - an untrained dwarf will produce gear every bit as good as what you buy, although it may take some time. And the reusable tools, such as an anvil and the stones you need to build the furnaces, are REUSABLE; you should be bringing the anvil at the very least.

==Bring Bronze Supplies==
The basic item selection in "Prepare for the journey carefully" comes with two copper picks (at 44 points each), two copper battle axes (68 points each), and an iron anvil. Since copper ore and cassiterite costs 6 points a piece, and wood costs 3 points per log, you can carry the supplies for SIX bronze items for the cost of one of those copper battle axes:
* 3 copper ore (any type): 18 points
* 3 {{l|cassiterite}}: 18 points
* 3 wood (to be converted to charcoal and then used to smelt the bronze): 9 points
* 6 wood (for charcoal, and then to forge each item): 18 points
* Total: 63 points
If you've got the patience, then you can add in {{l|bituminous coal}} at 3 points per piece and save on wood:
* metal ore as above: 36 points
* 1 wood (to be converted to charcoal and then used to smelt the first coal): 3 points
* 1 coal (for coke, and then to smelt the other coal): 3 points
* 1 coal (for coke, and then to smelt the bronze): 3 points
* 2 coal (for coke, and then to forge each item): 6 points
* Total: 51 points

NOTE: If your embark has at least 7 trees, you can skip on bringing any wood. Choose one of your ores and remove the economic designation for it under the "Stones" z-menu, and use it to build your first wood furnace. Deconstruct your wagon to yield 3 logs, and convert one into ash and two into charcoal, then use the ash to make a smelter. Smelt one set of bronze bars, deconstruct the smelter, use the ash for a forge, and make one battle axe. Cut wood as necessary to smelt the rest of your bronze and create the rest of your equipment as necessary. This process takes a little longer, but saves 27 points on wood, or 15 from the coal process, allowing you to bring only the ores and the anvil. Remember to set your ore as economic again!

== Bismuth Is Pretty ==
If you don't mind spending more, you can replace some of the tin ores with {{l|bismuthinite}} and make {{l|bismuth bronze}} items:

* 4 copper ore (any type): 24 points
* 2 cassiterite: 12 points
* 2 bismuthinite: 6 points
* 1 wood (for charcoal, and then to smelt the first coal): 3 points
* 3 coal (for coke, and then to smelt the other coal): 9 points
* 3 coal (for coke, and then to smelt the ores into bars): 9 points
* 1 coal (for coke, and then to smelt the bars to make the bronze): 3 points
* 2 coal (for coke, and then to forge each item): 6 points
* Total: 72 points

Unfortunately, what you gain by reducing the cost of your ores, you lose by having to smelt your ores into metal bars before converting them to alloys.

==Steel Supplies are Expensive==
Unfortunately, iron ores will cost you 24 points each, so if you're hoping to go directly for steel equipment, be prepared to spend:
* 2 iron ore (any type): 48 points
* 2 flux (any type): 12 points
* 2 wood (for charcoal, and then to smelt the iron): 6 points
* 2 wood (for charcoal, and then to make pig iron): 6 points
* 2 wood (for charcoal, and then to make the steel): 6 points
* 2 wood (for charcoal, and then to forge each item): 6 points
* Total: 84 points
Coal does help, if your civilization has it:
* iron ore/flux as above: 60 points
* 1 wood (for charcoal, and then to smelt coal): 3 points
* 1 coal (for coke, and then to smelt coal): 3 points
* 1 coal (for coke, and then to smelt iron/pig iron): 3 points
* 2 coal (for coke, and then to smelt steel/forge items): 6 points
* Total: 75 points

v0.31 Talk:Make your own weapons

2011-02-28T06:56:39Z

DeMatt: 31.19 ore changes render article out-of-date.

==Awkward title?==

I get that this is what the 40d article was called, but wouldn't 'Forging Guide' or something similar be better? The current one is awkwardly titled and uses improper grammar anyway (Mak''ing'' your own weapons would be proper). IMO redirecting this to a new Forging Guide page would be better, and with the new version out, right now is the most appropriate time to do so. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 01:27, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

:I'm not even sure of the necessity of this article. [[DF2010:Weapon]] would probably be a better place for it. Guides should only be made if there is sufficient information that it would clog up the main page on the subject, like bedroom designs. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 01:31, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

::I vote we just redirect this to [[DF2010:Weapon]] for now, and put all the info there. --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 01:43, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

:::I do see the use of the article (mostly the old one) as a guide - see the [[40d:Make_your_own_weapons|40d version of it]] for what I mean. If it were retitled, cleaned up, and adapted to include blacksmithing and armorsmithing I could definitely see its use as a more heavily-detailed 'forging guide.' The 'metalsmith's forge' page seems too much about the workshop than its purpose to put it there though. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 01:48, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Not "weapon". This should have a link ''from'' weapon.
::::The need for this article ''was'' mainly for the newbie who wanted to save on those damn expensive (300?) axes, which is not as much of a consideration now. But it also walks them thru how to create weapons, which is a bit of a mystery to the new player. True, every subsection is redundant to some other article, but a new player would have to find and digest about 5 different articles to understand what is on this one page - starting build, ore, smelting, weapon, weaponsmith, maybe non-Dwarf's Guide to rock - yay.
::::The title is awkward, agreed, but, sim to the Non-Dwarf's Guide to Rock, it's not a "tier one" article, it's a specialty topic, narrowly focused to one purpose, and expanding on several indirectly associated tier-one concepts. The fact that axes are now less expensive (17 for a wood one!) doesn't mean that it's not useful to the new player. Reworking it to a "Forging Guide" is a great idea imo - better name, more widely applicable, and the current specific material can be a subsection. Take the basic concept and have (sub)subsections (or just a table) on chains, anvils, armor - every commonly needed metal item, w/ what is needed re raw materials and skill. Use "forge an axe" as a step-by-step example, and I think it's a winner. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:10, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::Cool beans. I'm interested in this, so I'll give it a shot sometime after the weekend, probably Monday. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 20:32, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::Really, there still are savings. 17 points is a lot to pay for something made for 3 points. So, a Forging Guide is only for the forging aspect, and ignoring the roles of the carpenter. And that is still considered making your own weapons. Though, maybe this could be named something like "The non-dwarf's guide to weaponmaking" or even combined "The non-dwarf's guide to everything" for every guide in one.--[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] 22:51, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::'...to everything' would be a monster of a page and incredibly unnavigable. Adding 'embark strategies' to the embark page would be nice, but the pros/cons of stuff and the math of it isn't quite the same - I'm talking about removing the 'embark' aspect of this page entirely and replacing it with a how-to-forge-everything-and-how-much guide and a quick table of material costs. I dunno, Albedo gets what I'm playing at. When I have a draft up it'll make more sense. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 23:01, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, the focus is changed from "bring this on embark" to "here's how you <s>make</s> ''forge'' stuff from scratch" (metal only, if all basic sub-types). Then, at the very bottom, can be a minor subsection about what to bring on embark to achieve the above w/ diff metals, sim to the [[40d:Make_your_own_weapons#What_to_bring_in_your_wagon|"What to bring"]] subsection. (Also note that the "weapons grade" metals are now no longer the same sliding scale for weak/good/better/best weapons.) 
Dree - there is already a "non-dwarf's guide to everything" - it can be found '''[[Main_Page|here]]'''.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:12, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

==Wagonite==
Possibly a silly observation, but you can break your [[wagon]] down into three wood logs - for the truly economical, this could shave 9 points off the first builds (64 -> 54 for bronze and 84 -> 75 for steel) and less for the second builds.
- [[User:Ancient History|Ancient History]] 16:47, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
:Eh... true enough, but the supplied builds are not COMPLETE builds. They don't consider how much other stuff you might want to bring along, and as written they don't go into detail about how to use the supplies. They're there more as example calculations. Somebody might want to use the wagonite for bed supplies, while somebody else might prefer it for barrels, and a third person might need it to build workshops. If you're going into a heavily forested region, chopping trees is more useful than buying logs, so you might use the wagonite to get the process started and then start whacking trees for further wood. If you're embarking on a glacier, though, you'll really only have your starting logs, so you'll spend on those and the wagonite will just be a drop in that bucket. So me "spending" the wagonite here isn't as useful to a reader as me spending 3 or 9 points on logs. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 02:31, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

== Numbers ==

I am not at home at the moment, so I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I can already tell you that the math on this page is way off on a few things (not everything).

I know that coke and charcoal cost 10pts each at embark.
I don't remember if copper is 6 or 9 for the ore, but I know that a copper bar is 10.

There are a few other things.

I am adding this article to my watch list so that I can find it easily when I get home, and I will try to clean it up a bit. :)

[[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 02:53, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
:Hmmm...
:<gallery>
Image:Bit-coal-cost.PNG|
Image:Cassiterite-cost.PNG|
Image:Malachite-cost.PNG|
</gallery>
No, the math is correct. Bars of charcoal and coke do indeed cost 10P, as do bars of copper. However, the examples aren't taking BARS. They're taking STONES. Stones of bituminous coal and lignite cost 3P, as of 0.31.08, but require smelting to turn into fuel. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 03:31, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

:::But the article was stating that the ORE cost 3 as... Err... Rereading. I have to retract my statement. :P I must confess to being a dumba**... The article still needs a little work, but my own assertions were false. I stand corrected. :-) I somehow registered "3 of each, costing 18 each" as costing 3 each. ^^ -- [[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]]

== Bismuth bronze is pretty, but expensive ==

I've redone the calculations and tidied up the section. Unfortunately, as noted in the article, bismuth bronze supplies cost more than regular bronze. Increasing to eight items' supplies, the regular bronze only costs 69 points with coal, while the bismuth bronze equivalent costs 72. Wood-only is even worse - 84 points for regular bronze, but 96 for bismuth bronze. It's the fact that you have to smelt the bismuth supplies to bars, before alloying them together, that accounts for the cost increase. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 03:48, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

:might be cheaper if you happen to embark near a volcano. --[[Special:Contributions/75.6.250.65|75.6.250.65]] 05:15, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

== Ore Changes in 31.19 ==
Copy paste will only get you so far, the introduction is talking about the abundance of minerals, for 31.19 this is certainly no longer the case. Also the usefullness of this article decreases as starting civs have less types of ore available.
--[[Special:Contributions/82.171.161.117|82.171.161.117]] 09:06, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
:Copy-pasted? Har. This article was written and updated for 31.01 through 31.18, and has yet to be revamped to account for the changes in ore availability in 31.19. I'll add a note to that effect. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 06:56, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Grizzly bear

2011-02-23T05:30:56Z

DeMatt: /* Training */ Captured attackers are untameable.

=Training=
I'm told you can train these as war bears, as seen via the raws, but I've never been able to do it. People say you can do it without a dungeon master. Confirm/Deny? --[[User:SirPenguin|SirPenguin]] 17:40, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:I think the problem is that you can't designate a specific animal to train, try killing all your dogs and training a war animal(I haven't made a kennel yet in DF2010) [[Special:Contributions/68.161.167.37|68.161.167.37]] 17:48, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
::Better yet, just put all of your dogs into a cage - animals can't be trained unless they can walk to the kennels on their own. Also make sure your bears '''aren't''' in cages. Oh, and for Armok's sake, ''keep them away from your booze stockpiles''! --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:53, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:::I've successfully trained war bears in 2 forts now, and have updated the page. You don't need a dungeon master, and you just do the "train war dog" task with tame grizzly bears running about your fort and it seems to work automatically in the same way as dogs do. If you don't want to train your dogs then I guess you'd have to trap them somewhere. I assume that if you trap them yourself you have to do "Tame large animal" first. Bought ones are already tame and that's how I've always done it. --[[User:Akkie|Akkie]] 10:54 UTC, 17 April 2010
::::The "Tame Large Animal" first is the kicker, and that can't be done without a dungeon master (if at all? I've never seen a DM).
:::::You don't need to tame large animal, select tame war dog and it will tame the bears as well--[[User:Radical|Radical]] 8:37 EST, 8 May
:::::Grizzly bears have [PET] rather than [PET_EXOTIC] so anybody can tame a ''captured '''wild''''' grizzly (using "Tame Large Animal"). If you bought it from the elves, it's already tame. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:18, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Someone has to say it "Bear Cavalry." --[[User:Truean|Truean]] 16:45, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

:Fantasy general has them :) --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.106.165|92.202.106.165]] 18:19, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Is it just me, or can you train grizzlies (not for war, but just taming them) without a Dungeon Master? I'm using v31_12_b.
:Yes, you can. It say so on the page, actually. --[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 16:54, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

=Captured Grizzlies=
I captured some War grizzly bears from goblin attackers using cage traps. Now I have a bunch of goblin swordsmen and war grizzly bears in cages at animal stockpile. My kennel is next to this stockpile, but when I select "tame large animal" option, these war grizzly bears do not appear there. How do I tame them? -vlex
:You don't. A) they need to be free to roam, and B) they're too loyal to the goblins to consider working for your dwarves. Catch wild grizzlies instead, or buy 'em from the elves. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 05:30, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

v0.31:Alluvial layer

2011-02-22T10:44:16Z

DeMatt: I think clay gave it. Certainly they exist now.

{{av}}{{Quality|Fine|19:48, 24 May 2010 (UTC)}}
Several minerals and gems are specified to occur within '''alluvial layers'''. Versions prior to {{version|0.31.19}} had no alluvial layers, however with the introduction of {{l|clay}} as a site-finder resource, alluvial layers can be found.

If such layers are encountered, they contain small clusters of any of...
:*{{L|native gold}}
:*{{L|native platinum}}
:*{{L|cassiterite}}
:*jade {{L|gem}}s (blue, lavender, pink, white, and green)

{{Category|Stone Layers}}

v0.31 Talk:Aquifer

2011-02-21T07:38:27Z

DeMatt: /* Modding Method */ Aquifer tag does so exist.

== General Comments ==
Just used cave-in method to pierce a single deep aquifer. I assume that constructed layers still don't work, but haven't tested them (otherwise I would have specifically mentioned not to try using constructed walls.)

A weird glitch: the fallen rock morphs to the rock type of the layer it lands to.

:I can confirm this. --[[User:Tarran|Tarran]] 01:34, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Of the methods on the old page: looks like the speed and pump methods are still possible, though I was not able to pull them off. I was getting path finding issues where a dwarf thought it was stuck even though there was a clear path, and so was more fun than necessary.
--[[User:Droid|Droid]] 04:27, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== Modding Method ==

I just tried the modding method in 31.04, and it was completely screwed up at several stages. World Gen worked fine. On the region map though, itreplaced all sedimentary layers in the region map w/ just plain "Rock", showed cluster and vein (Native Platinum, Native Gold, Cassiterite, etc) in the region map. On the prepare screen, all of my dwarves turned into cave crocodiles, although setting skills and buying items still worked fine. Finally, on the local map, my dwarves were in fact cave crocodiles, there didn't seem to be any vegetation, and visible rocks on the ground cycle through all material types rapidly, giving them a flashing rainbow appearance.

Can someone else give this a try?

:That would be because you have duplicates. Check your RAWs. --[[Special:Contributions/97.103.188.15|97.103.188.15]] 01:21, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I just tried it in 31.10 myself. Genned a new world, and there was no indication of aquifers anywhere, nor any warnings. However, when I got there and started digging out my fortress, I hit one anyway a few z-levels in. Naturally, I'm a bit confused. [[Special:Contributions/70.173.99.39|70.173.99.39]] 04:02, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Heh. I had a similar problem when I simply removed the first [ on [AQUIFER]. The improper tag [SOIL_SAND]AQUIFER] causes the stone bug, at any rate.

I have had trouble with my Aquifer, and i've checked over my RAWs quite a few times. I removed all the right tags, etc, etc, but I don't want to make a brand new directory and lose all the work i've put into this fort already. I'm running out of ideas, and so far, the other methods i've tried just make more Fun.

Added inorganic_stone_mineral.txt to the list of files to find the [AQUIFER] string in, due to Puddingstone. I ran a search for that string across the entire 31.16 raw directory, and it only shows up in inorganic_stone_layer.txt, inorganic_stone_mineral.txt, and inorganic_stone_soil.txt, so we should have all the locations covered now. [[User:Davemichels|Davemichels]] 07:06, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Modding is even further broken as of 31.19, or at least the version presented for download. A warning message about "Fire Clay" popped up. I presume that the old replacement files make no mention of the new ceramics material. [[User:Vivanter|Vivanter]] 23:19, 20 Febuary 2011 (EST)

:that would be bacause the [aquifer] tag no longer exists in 31.19 --[[Special:Contributions/71.209.205.71|71.209.205.71]] 05:04, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
::The [AQUIFER] tag does still exist in 31.19, and in all the same files as in 31.18. Removing the [AQUIFER] tags before generating a world makes it not have any aquifers. Haven't tested the post-generation removal. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:38, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

== Draining Method ==

I just embarked on a site where a surface river drops several z-levels into a canyon, ending up one z-level below an aquifer level. I decided to try punching through the aquifer by draining a large area into the lake and walling off a stairwell in the drained area. Unfortunately, due to the new channelling designation, I now have six soggy dwarf corpses in the canyon, and a melancholy dwarf trading baleful glares with a couple local harpies. The miners basically just dig a down ramp and then jump down into the flow, they seem to even do this if you play with their digging sides so that they have no reason to path through the channelled square.

I might have had more success if I had dug out a larger area unconnected to the river at first, and then breached the canyon wall with a single dwarven sacrifice, but it really seems as though there's no safe way to alter flows with the new channelling system.

Apologies in advance if I didn't set up this talk discussion edit correctly, I don't really understand witiquette.
--[[User:Njero|Njero]] 05:58, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

:I recently had a similar problem with the freezing method in which I used channel (I should try again with the up/down stairs recommended and see if that changes anything). Basically, the dwarves channeled out a square and then walked into it before it filled and froze. I rather rapidly ended up with seven Dwarf Popsicles. [[Special:Contributions/98.151.26.202|98.151.26.202]] 09:45, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

== Cave-in method needs tutorial ==

I tried penetrating an aquifier layer using the cave-in method and wound up with a room of 7/7 water filled with chunks of stone. Flow of water into the aquifier layer did not stop, and I was unable to penetrate it. Could someone please through together a diagram showing how to use the cave-in method? The wiki article is not very specific.--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 15:15, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Cave in method may be broken in the new version of DF because of the ramps. Can anyone confirm? I've tried repeatedly, but cannot get the 3x3 square necessary to burrow deeper. --[[User:ReducedToRubble|ReducedToRubble]] 18:00, May 1st 2010
:The cave in method still works, as ramps are now ignored for holding up a surface so long as the ramp '''starts''' on the floor below (to cave in floor -2 dig a channel. If a ramp is left that stats on floor -3, the cave in will still occur.) [[User:Kenji 03|Kenji 03]] 11:50, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

I could make a simple tutorial using floor to hold the land before it crumbles. It's really easy, just requires experimenting.
--[[User:Domenique|Domenique]] 09:23, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

== pump method ==

I added a section for the method where you just pump the water back into the aquifer and smooth the edges. I'm surprised it wasn't there already since its the only way that works everywhere. May need formating/work/links/etc.
-- [o_O]WTFace (from the forums)

== Sombody should make a youtube video how to get trough a aqualayer >.> ==

Iv tried pumps sucking up but the water seem to come back faster than i can drain it especialy if i make a larger channel size >.>

v0.31:Aquifer

2011-02-21T07:35:18Z

DeMatt: /* The modding method */ Removed premade RAW files - out of date.

{{quality|Masterwork|15:52, 30 September 2010 (UTC)}}{{av}}
An '''aquifer''' is a subterranean layer of {{l|water|groundwater}}-bearing rock or {{l|soil}}. Attempts to mine through the layer will result in the mined-out squares immediately filling with {{l|water}}, effectively halting excavation at or below their level. This, in conjunction with the fact that they are often located in areas rich in {{l|loam}}, and {{l|sand}}, makes it difficult to find great quantities of {{l|stone}} in areas with aquifers, making for more challenging gameplay.

Aquifers can't be drained - the groundwater is limitless. {{l|stone detailing|Smoothed}} aquifer stone stops producing water. Aquifers located in {{l|water#Salt_Water|saltwater}} areas will produce salty water. Aquifers do not only produce water - if the incoming water is pressurized, an aquifer tile may instead absorb it. Just like with water production, this ability will not be disabled no matter how much water it absorbs.

== Where they are found ==

Aquifers are less likely to be found near and in mountains.{{verify}}

Layers which CAN contain aquifers:
*{{L|sandy clay loam}}
*{{L|silty clay loam}}
*{{L|loam}}
*{{L|sandy loam}}
*{{L|silt loam}}
*{{L|loamy sand}}
*{{L|silt}}
*{{L|sand (tan)|sand}}
*{{L|yellow sand}}
*{{L|white sand}}
*{{L|black sand}}
*{{L|red sand}}
*{{L|peat}}
*{{L|pelagic clay}}
*{{L|calcareous ooze}}
*{{L|siliceous ooze}}
*{{L|sandstone}}
*{{L|conglomerate}}
*{{L|puddingstone}}
Layers which CAN'T contain aquifers, despite their names suggesting otherwise:
*{{L|clay}}
*{{L|silty clay}}
*{{L|sandy clay}}
*{{L|clay loam}}
*{{L|siltstone}}
*{{L|mudstone}}

== Dealing with aquifers ==

===Digging at a change in level===

Though an aquifer seems a daunting obstacle, it ''is'' possible to dig through it, given a ample supply of building material (rock or wood) and any unevenness in the depth of the aquifer. The basic facts:

* An aquifer layer will ''absorb'' an unlimited amount of water draining in from above.

* With an up/down stairway or channel designation, a dwarf can break through the floor of the cell ''beneath'' him. That means a dwarf can stand on top of an aquifer layer, dig an up/down stairway, and make it drain into the layer beneath it, if that layer is also an aquifer or has an open path to an aquifer layer nearby.

* A stairway may be swamped to dangerous levels with water draining in from the squares around it, but many stairways in a clump mean that the drainage to the next layer wins out.

* Constructing a wall, up/down stairway, or channel in an aquifer layer prevents any water from originating in that square. A wall prevents water from draining down into the next layer from any source, while the stairway or channel lets it come in from other squares and drain.

These points support the following method:

# Dig around at the level just above where you encountered the aquifer, placing up/down or down stairways according to your preferred city grid plan. Training up a few miners in this way will help later. Spot some points where the next level (as seen from down stairways) varies in wetness from one spot to another.
# For the following, pause the game after every square dug out and make sure the miners dig both layers at the same rate and redesignate when they cancel your plans automatically. Dig a 5x5 hollow square of up/down stairways at the change in level, going down as far as you can. The lower aquifer should accept water from the upper aquifer, allowing you to drain the upper aquifer (at least partway). Then gradually take on the area in the middle, building walls and/or staircases to fill in and stop the flow as you expand. Eventually you should get command over the source of flow, and can dig a hole in the center of the bottom-most layer surrounded by a 3x3 ring of impermeable rock.

* ''Caveat: sometimes only the top of the aquifer changes depth, but the bottom stays at the same level. In this case you will get nowhere. Sometimes the aquifer is two or more layers thick and it doesn't offset enough to let you all the way through - in this case, sometimes you can use the cave-in method to get through one layer, then use this method to get through the next. And sometimes you'll just find a hole right through when you investigate the change in level, because you're at a biome boundary and it's not aligned perfectly.

===The ore method===
On maps where the aquifer is not held in a layer of soil, but instead is held in a {{L|sedimentary layer}} such as sandstone, it may be possible to tunnel down through deposits of ore such as magnetite. For this to work you have to find a spot where there is coincidentally an ore deposit on each Z-level you need to dig through. This is only possible through tiresome trial and error, or through the use of a utility like reveal.exe. The trial and error method can be accomplished somewhat more easily by digging up/down stairs to reveal the layer underneath them without actually digging into the underlying layer. This method is more complicated with aquifers located in layers of {{L|conglomerate}}, as large clusters of {{L|puddingstone}} will support the aquifer and thus cannot be used to provide a path through it.

===The magma/obsidian method===
If you have access to a supply of magma, you can create your own obsidian caissons. By channeling into the aquifer layer and then filling these channels with magma, it is possible to create a wall of obsidian between your working area and the {{l|water}}-bearing rock or {{l|soil}}. However, changes to world generation with the last version have made this method more difficult than it once was, as it is now harder to find magma vents that extend above the aquifer level.

===The cave-in method===
If there are enough layers above the aquifer, then letting non aquifer rock fall into the aquifer layer gives an area of diggable rock. This requires at least 2 natural dry layers. If multiple aquifer layers are to be breached, things get more complicated. First {{l| channel}} out the area of aquifer that will be replaced. Then dig out all connecting floors and walls to the block that will fall (build a support to hold it until you are ready for collision). A {{l| burrow}} may be useful to assign unnecessary dwarves to a safe area. When everyone is clear, de-construct the support with a lever. (If you forgot to bring stone, then you may instead build a constructed floor to support it, designate it to be destroyed, and have a {{l|hospital}} standing ready in case the unlucky one survives.)

After the collapse, do not dig out the outer edge of the fallen rock.

This does not work with {{l| wood}} walls since they deconstruct on cave-in.

If you build many rings inside one another in your top drop layer, you can breach multi-level aquifers with as little as 2 natural layers of dry soil above it. Drop the rings from the outside to the inside using constructed arms to hold the center rings in place. Once a ring drops into the water below it, pump out the water in the center and dig down another layer. When that is complete, drop the next ring and continue the process until you are through. Since you start dropping rings from the outside it is necessary to know how many levels deep the aquifer is before you begin.

Some might regard this method as cheating, so use it at your own risk.

'''Note:''' There is a bug that may prevent this method from working, collapsed layers may turn into the aquifer layer type that was dug out at that level. So, for example: We have three layers, layer 1 has the caving in section, and is not an aquifer. Layer 2 is a dug out layer that is also not a aquifer. And Layer 3 which is dug out and is an aquifer. Now, the bug, say layer 1's cave-in section lands on layer 3's dug out area, sometimes layer 1's caved in section may change into layer 3's soil type. Making it an aquifer too. Thus making the cave-in method impossible for that area.

===The freezing method===

If you are playing in a freezing or very cold landscape, where it snows in winter and instantly freezes water on the map, you can dig out a 3x3 hole in the ground using {{l|channel}}s, and make it deeper and deeper until you reach the aquifer level. Once you reach the damp rock, tunnel into it with an up/down staircase - the incoming water will freeze after a few moments. The central square of the 3x3 hole should be tunnelable ice, so you can get to the rock beneath. If there are two aquifer levels, for example, you can just make a larger initial hole, and make a smaller one for the level after.

If your fortress is in a zone that gets warm, build walls around the inside of the hole to stop the water coming in once the ice melts.

Note: There is a bug that may prevent this from working, sometimes ice walls don't produce an ice floor tile above them, instead leaving it as "open space" which prevents the player from digging downwards.
Simplest method is to construct a wooden (or stone, if you have any) floor and then remove it. After the floor is removed, a natural ice floor will remain.
An alternative means that will work is to set the tile 1 z-level '''ABOVE''' your missing ice floor tile as a {{l|pond}}, and '''FILL IT'''. The first {{l|bucket}} of water that goes on it will create that missing ice floor tile the instant the water is dumped on it, and you will receive a cancellation message that the pond has gone away. Dezone the pond {{l|activity zone}}, and get back to work breaching that ice. Keep in mind that you will need an '''unfrozen water source''' to use to fill your bucket, so have a working {{l|well}} or underground pond ready beforehand for this to work.

===The pump method===

The pumping method uses multiple {{L|screw pump|pumps}} to keep an area dry long enough to smooth or {{l|wall}} off the edges, stopping the flow of water. It requires no special environment or resources, other than wood and dwarves (and patience). Most commonly, a moderately sized section of the aquifer layer is channeled out and several screw pumps are built facing it. Directly behind each of the screw pumps a few tiles are channeled out to receive and dispose of the pumped water. When the pumps are activated, they should pump water faster than the aquifer can produce it, allowing masons to smooth or build walls around your future staircase. You ''will'' get job cancellations during this process, as stray 2/7's of water interrupt the building process. Just unsuspend the construction when this happens, as long a dwarf manages to touch the wall before canceling, it will move incrementally toward completion and eventually finish. Depending on the availability of screw pumps and dwarves, you may need to wall off one corner or side at a time, then move the pumps and repeat. When drilling through more than one aquifer layer, be sure to leave yourself enough room to build additional layers of pumps and water disposal channels on lower levels.

Things to consider:
* Flowing water will cause parents to drop their infants, leading to job cancellations and occasionally [[fun]].
* Mechanical {{l|power}} may come in handy, but dwarf power works just fine and is much more portable.
* Channels can sometimes be used in place of walls, causing water produced by by the aquifer on one level to immediately fall and be consumed by the aquifer on the level below.
* This method may take a while.
* Aquifers do not create water in diagonal tiles, but do create water in hollow tiles directly below them. Therefore, you will want to dig two z-levels below the lowest aquifer layer before continuing with your fortress.

===The modding method===

By editing the the raws and removing the [AQUIFER] tag from all of the appropriate entries in inorganic_stone_layer.txt, inorganic_stone_mineral.txt, and inorganic_stone_soil.txt it is possible to remove all aquifers from the world. This can be done before creating a new world or after, if you find a particularly neat location ruined only by the presence of an aquifer. In order to modify an existing world, you must delete the [AQUIFER] tag from the raws in the savegame's folder.

===Digging with help from below===

So say you sneak down below the aquifer through an ore vein or something, but you still want to punch a tunnel through a part of the aquifer that does ''not'' afford such luxury. With a typical double-layer aquifer (with an unsafe layer beneath it that fills from above) it is not easy to push through a stairwell where you'd like, even if you have access to the space beneath. Start by ensuring 24 building materials (wood or stone) are available close by on the layer above the top aquifer, and that a ''large'' space (at least 25x25 or so, preferably larger) is available on the top safe layer under the aquifer, four layers beneath the first. Dig or build an up-down stair at the same position on the upper and lower safe levels, and surround the top up-down stair with 8 down-stairs for better access. Have at least three legendary diggers and half a dozen moderately skilled masons close by and idle. It also helps to have a stairway or open space leading down from the lower level to relieve water buildup at the point you'll make the hole.

Start by digging an up/down stairway upward from the bottom safe stairway into the bottom (third) layer. Water will start pouring out into the bottom level. Designate the next two squares up (on the aquifer levels) as up-down stairs to link the two, and wait until the diggers get started on them. Then designate a 3x3x3 block around these as up-down stairs on the two aquifer levels and the unsafe level beneath. Once they're built very large amounts of water will be pouring down into the lower space. ''Warning:'' unlike in the previous version, diggers now make a habit of canceling designations that they feel they can't get to, such as if the lower level is too flooded for them to approach. Make sure all 27 up-down stairs are dug out ASAP. Then wall six squares on the top level (leaving two to be walled once the corners are filled in), and proceed downward from completed walls until you've walled squares on all three levels. After you finish, I'm not sure if it's technically necessary to construct up-down stairs in the space you dug out by designation in order to stop all water leakage.

===Going around===

If your embark site is covered by multiple biomes, there is a chance the aquifer is not present in every biome. In some maps this may be indicated by an outcropping of stone in a landscape otherwise composed of soil; in other maps the change in biome might be visible as a change in soil type or vegetation type or density. You might be able to dig down through a biome that doesn't have an aquifer, to a Z-level below the aquifer, and then (if you wish) tunnel beneath the aquifer to the previously inaccessible region.

Even if all the biomes of your site contain aquifers, they might not all be at the same Z-level. So you still might be able to dig down in one biome, reaching a Z-level beneath the aquifer in another biome.

{{World}}

[[Category:World]]

v0.31 Talk:Nest box

2011-02-20T23:50:52Z

DeMatt: Blasted nest boxes clog up stockpiles.

==Clogs Up Food Stockpiles==
Hrm... upon finding a reasonably well-endowed site, I embarked with a couple of these. When I designated a food stockpile, to hold my harvested plants, I discovered that my dwarves plonked one nest box down in the first square of the stockpile, and then refused to add empty barrels to hold crops, instead filling the remainder of the stockpile with already-filled barrels (with plants) and other stacks of plants. Once I dumped out the nest box, they returned to normal behaviour, adding empty barrels and reshuffling the plant stacks into them. Apparently the dwarven mind considers a nest box to be a container, but not one that can hold plants, so they'll add it to a stockpile, refuse to stuff plants in it, and then refuse to add more barrels because there's an empty container already on the stockpile. Annoying. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 23:50, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

v0.31:Jug

2011-02-20T23:41:26Z

DeMatt: Forgot templates and categories.

{{av}}{{Quality|Tattered}}
'''Jugs''' are a type of container, made from various materials, which are used in {{l|beekeeper|beekeeping}} to store royal jelly.
{{Category|Items}}

v0.31:Jug

2011-02-20T23:40:10Z

DeMatt: Initial creation. Don't know much about 'em, do I?

'''Jugs''' are a type of container, made from various materials, which are used in {{l|beekeeper|beekeeping}} to store royal jelly.

v0.31:Egg

2011-02-20T23:30:40Z

DeMatt: Links.

{{av}}

In dwarf fortress, eggs are laid by creatures with the {{L|creature token#L|LAYS_EGGS}} token. This includes ordinary fowl, and also some more exotic creatures such as {{L|giant eagle}}s, {{L|dragon}}s, {{L|kobold}}s, and many others. Eggs can be used by dwarves as {{l|food}}, or they can be hatched. Hatching eggs requires that a male of the species be present and that the dwarves are prevented from eating the egg before it hatches.

Egg laying animals will claim an empty {{L|Nest box}} if one is available.

v0.31:Nest box

2011-02-20T23:28:39Z

DeMatt: moved DF2010:Nest Box to DF2010:Nest box: Capitalization.

{{av}}

A '''nest box''' is a building that {{L|egg}} laying creatures will use to lay their eggs in. A [[tool|nest box]] is created at a {{L|craftsdwarf's workshop}} or {{L|metalsmith's forge}}. Once {{k|b}}uilt, the box will be claimed by an egg laying animal. The animal that claims the nest box will not leave the box unless it is deconstructed, and will periodically lay {{L|egg}}s into the box. A dwarf with the {{L|food hauling}} labor enabled will then remove the eggs and take them to a food stockpile.

A nested female will lay eggs regardless of the presence of a male of the same species, however the eggs will not be fertilized and will not hatch unless a male is present. If a male is present, the eggs may be fertilized and hatch if the dwarves can be prevented from snatching them out of the nest box and hauling them to be eaten. To achieve this, eggs can be {{L|forbidden}}, or access to the nest box can be blocked with locked doors. There may be no way of telling whether or not eggs have been fertilized, but if they sit in a nest box for more than two seasons, they are unlikely to ever hatch.

It should be noted that most domestic birds have tremendous reproductive potential, and a few species of breeding birds can cause a population explosion that rivals even the deadliest of {{L|catsplosion}}s.

A current bug causes wild egg layers to claim nest boxes and attack any tame animals roosting nearby. This bug makes it possible to create a dwarven cockfighting ring on maps with wild poultry.

[[category:buildings]]

v0.31:Farming

2011-02-09T03:53:54Z

DeMatt: /* Introduction to Farming */ Cleanup.

{{quality|Exceptional|08:00, 22 May 2010 (UTC)}}{{av}}
[[Image:Df-crops-diagram.png|thumb|200px|General farming flowchart.]]

'''Farming''' is the action of growing {{l|crops}} for {{l|food}}, {{l|alcohol}} production and {{l|cloth}} manufacturing. While small forts can easily be sustained by plant gathering, {{l|hunting}} and trading, farming is vital to large settlements.

Farming is done at a '''farm plot''' building ({{k|b}}-{{k|p}}, resize with {{k|u}}{{k|m}}{{k|k}}{{k|h}}). It requires {{l|seeds}} and a worker with the "Farming (Fields)" {{l|labor}} enabled.

Depending on where the farm plot is constructed, different crops may be planted. Farm plots built {{l|above ground}} are not suitable for the crops grown on {{L|subterranean}} farm plots and vice versa. Note that the attributes {{DFtext|Inside |6:0:0}}, {{DFtext|Dark |0:0:1}}, {{DFtext|Outside|3:0:1}} and {{DFtext|Light|6:0:1}} are of no relevance.

See the article on {{L|crop}}s for details on the conditions needed to grow the available plants.

== Introduction to Farming ==

After building a farm plot building ({{k|b}}-{{k|p}}, resize with {{k|u}}{{k|m}}{{k|k}}{{k|h}}), you must select which crops to plant there.

Press {{k|q}} and move the cursor over the farm, you will see a list of crops you can select to grow in the current season. You can change which season is displayed by pressing {{k|a}},{{k|b}},{{k|c}}, or {{k|d}}. Move the blue selector up and down with {{k|-}} and {{k|+}}, and press {{k|Enter}} to choose a crop to plant during that season (highlighted in white).

You must have the appropriate {{L|seed}}s to plant a crop there. To easily see how many of each seeds you have you can go to the Kitchen menu ({{k|z}} {{k|right}} {{k|Enter}}). {{L|Plump helmet}}s are a good beginning crop for a first cave farm, and {{L|wild strawberries}} are a good choice for outdoor fields. Check the {{L|crop}}s page for details on different seeds. Only some plants are edible so make sure the seeds you're using will produce food. It's often a good idea to pick a seed which produces a plant which can be {{L|brew}}ed. This will create {{L|alcohol}} and also give you a seed to plant again next season.

Instructing a plot to remain fallow {{k|z}} during a particular season will instruct dwarves not to plant in that plot during that season.

Pressing {{k|f}} lets you toggle fertilization on or off. To fertilize a farm plot, one needs {{L|potash}}, which is produced by processing {{L|ash}}. It greatly increases the yield of a plot (approx. multiplied by four). However fertilization only lasts for one season, and requires up to 1/4 * plot_size +1 of {{L|potash}} for saturation. Therefore fully fertilizing a farm would require burning a large amount of trees each season.

=== Subterranean Farming ===

To grow the six "dwarven" plants, including the {{l|plump helmet}}, you will need an underground farm plot. The seeds and spawn available to your dwarves at embark will only grow underground.

Underground farm plots must be placed on mud. Toady One has stated that underground farming should also be possible on soil floors under which exist natural soil walls, but this bug has not yet been fixed{{version|0.31.17}}.

Muddying the ground requires temporarily covering it with water: common methods include a bucket brigade or '''controlled''' flooding by temporarily diverting a river or pool, using a floodgate or door to stop the flow. (see: {{l|Irrigation}}) You may also find a muddied area in a {{L|cavern}}, but note that each tile underneath the farm plot must be muddied. Most caverns have entire open areas which will be permanently covered in mud, but if you dig into the walls of a cavern or chisel away a pillar, the freshly cut floor area will not be muddied until you get it wet. Underground caverns are dirty, and frequently contain {{L|Mud|piles of mud}} that are perfect for quickly setting up farms. However, given the wide variety of creatures found in caverns, you may want to take precautions. Consider keeping a {{L|squad}} close at hand to guard the farm, or walling off a muddied area for your dwarves' exclusive use.

Underground farming is not restricted to soil layers and caverns: underground floor of any material -- rough stone, smoothed stone, ore, gem -- can support subterranean farm plots once there is a layer of mud covering it. See {{L|irrigation}} for tips on getting the right amount of water to the farm plots.

=== Above Ground Farming ===
Above ground farming is basically the same as underground farming, with the simplifying distinction that above ground plots typically do not require preparatory work. However, there are some complications.

The first complication is that seeds cannot be chosen at embark, as dwarven civilizations do not have access to those sort of plants. They can be bought from {{L|Elves|elven}} and {{L|Humans|human}} caravans; above-ground plants can be gathered using the {{L|Plant gathering}} designation, and then {{L|brewer|brewed}}, {{L|mill}}ed, {{L|thresher|threshed}} or {{L|dining hall|eaten}} directly (depending on the plant) to produce seeds.

The second complication is that the farming must be done on {{L|soil}} or muddied rock, being {{L|above ground}}. Typically, it is done on the surface, which is dangerous (due to aggressive animals, ambushes and sieges). However, any land which has ever been exposed to sunlight becomes permanently marked as "above ground". So, if you have multiple Z-layers of soil, you can channel some above-ground land, remove the resulting ramps, then construct a floor above, where the surface once was. The (now inside and protected) lower soil will still be suitable for farming outdoor plants like {{L|wild strawberry|wild strawberries}}, {{L|longland grass}}, {{L|rope reed}}, and anything else you may find. If your soil is not thick enough, you may still get a secure above ground farm by doing the same with any rock and muddying it. Alternatively, you may build a greenhouse around some soil.

Above ground farms built on unmuddied rock layers will show the message "No seeds available for this location", and you ''will not'' be able to plant anything in them.

Some crops require a particular temperature range to grow; so although it may be possible to plant them in any season, to obtain optimal usage of farm plots it may be necessary to coordinate planting with seasonal temperature variations.

== Farm plots in action ==

Once a farm plot has been built and crops have been selected for the current season, dwarves with the {{l|growing}} labor enabled will begin planting the selected seed. The higher a Dwarf's grower skill in planting, the more plants will be harvested from each seed planted. The farming labor is fairly low in priority, so if you want a full time farmer, it is best to disable all other labors.

Plants take time to grow, depending on their type. Once a plant is fully grown, a dwarf will harvest it. By default, any dwarf will do this. Harvesting plants is not affected by any skill, although it provides a small amount of grower experience. Plants that remain in the field for too long will wither. These plants will eventually rot away.

Depending on the number of growers and their experience and the rate at which the plant grows, not all squares of large plots may be used. {{verify}}

== Management ==

Create a custom {{L|stockpile}} near your {{L|farm}} which will only accept {{L|seed}}s. This will consolidate your seeds into one place, instead of having them littered all through the {{L|dining room}}. As a large number of seeds can be stored in a single barrel, this stockpile can be only three or four tiles. Alternately, you can make a more traditional sized custom stockpile, which only accepts seeds and bars of {{L|potash}} for fertilizing.

You can also create a custom stockpile that will only accept {{L|plant}}s, to avoid having it all mixed up with your {{L|meat}} and {{L|drink}}s. It would be a good idea to have this stockpile near your {{L|still}}, {{L|farmer's workshop}}, {{L|kitchen}}, etc.

Use the {{L|stocks}} menu, and go to the Kitchen tab. From here you can see how many of each kind of food you have. If you're running out of a certain kind of seed, toggle the corresponding plant "Cook" setting to red. {{L|Cooking}} plants doesn't leave a seed. If you have too many of a certain kind of seed, toggle the seed "Cook" setting to blue. Just make sure you check on the stocks (or just forbid one seed and leave it for emergency) and toggle it back before you run out!

{{Farming FAQ}}

== See also ==
* {{L|Irrigation}}
* {{L|Tile attributes}}
* {{L|Crops}}

{{Category|Buildings}}

v0.31 Talk:Farming

2011-02-09T03:34:38Z

DeMatt: /* Farming Commands */ Plump helmets are underground, not surface.

== Farming Commands ==

I'm playing DF for the first time. This page is clear on ''how to make plot'' but is ambiguous on commands use to plant seeds. I made an outdoor plot, used "q" to select it, but the list of growable items is not what I expect. I made sure to bring 20 Plump Helmet Spawn with which to start a farm, as well as two dwarves skilled in growing, but there is no where to select Plump Helemts when I farm. What's going on? More keys could be used in describing how to plant. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:96.35.160.255|96.35.160.255]]
:That would be because {{l|plump helmet}}s are UNDERGROUND crops, not OUTDOOR (or, rather, surface) crops. Build a farm plot underground, and you'll be able to plant your plump helmets there. If you want to use your surface farm plot, you'll need surface crops. The easiest way to get surface crops is to use {{l|plant gathering}} on the surface. Although you are right, the paragraph is a bit unclear. I'll tidy it up. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 03:34, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

== General ==

Placing a farm on rock
Needs Soil or mud
No Mud for underground farm
Mud is left by water

Placing a farm on surface soil
No Mud for underground farm
Mud is left by water

Placing a farm on mud found in an underground complex
<<No Error Message>>

So This is either a major bug, or a mechanics change and a minor text inconsistency.[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 22:35, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

:This is a bug. You're supposed to be able to farm on soil. I'll try to track down the forum thread, one moment --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 22:37, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

:Aha, so saith the Baughn: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51951.msg1123336#msg1123336
:--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 22:41, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
::Who is but a lowly dabbling SDL coder and has not insight into the game code or Toady's intentions.--[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 15:31, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Toady confirmed it too, you realize. Twice.--[[Special:Contributions/174.113.156.80|174.113.156.80]] 01:33, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
::::Quote from: Dr. A - "Farm plots built underground (Inside/Dark/Subterranean) on natural soil will not allow planting"
::::Reply from: Toady One - "I'm not sure yet. I never get a chance to look at it, despite wanting to look at it. The original idea was to require a soil wall beneath a mudless square for it to be farmable, and if it isn't that way, it's a bug. Either way, it is somewhat confusing, because you wouldn't be able to farm in one layer of soil. I'm not sure you should be able to, morally speaking, especially with the underground trees, but it's probably less confusing that way." from http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62202.msg1424098#msg1424098
::::I shall give this some testing over the next few days to see if a farm on top of a soil wall will allow planting of underground crops without being muddied first.--[[User:Malibu Stacey|Malibu Stacey]] 21:32, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

== Seeds can not be grown on non-soil, non-subterranean tiles ==

I recently attempted to follow the advice in the article, channeling out several tiles near a river, irrigating them, and building a farm plot on the muddied tiles. However, when I tried to set the field to be planted, all seeds (surface AND subterranean) are disabled, and the message "No seeds available for this location" is displayed. The soil layer, as it turns out, was only one tile thick, and even though the tiles are "above ground" (not even indoors yet, I haven't built a roof over them), they are ineligible for any seeds to be planted on... subterranean crops because the tiles are above ground, and surface crops because the floors are mud-covered diorite instead of one of the clay/sand/soil types.

So, be warned... attempting to create an indoor, irrigated surface crop farm will not work if you accidentally channel down to stone. Surface crops will not grow in mud-covered rock, only in soil (mud-covered or otherwise). --[[User:Tatterdemalian|Tatterdemalian]] 22:09, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
:Have same problem... did you dig out the level below your "aboveground" farm? I did (z1 and z2 dug out) and I remember towercaps and the lot can't grow unless they have a floor tiles and wall below (z1 dug out but not z2), perhaps crops follow the same rules? I'll test this.--[[Special:Contributions/99.67.238.66|99.67.238.66]] 05:54, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
::I just encountered this issue (version 31.04) but in a slightly different context. I dug out four rooms underground in sand, did *not* dig out the tiles underneath, built 4 farms on the sand without irigating, and then got the message that that there are "No seeds available for this location", despite having just embarked with many seeds. Maybe I'll try tearing down the farms and irrigating first. --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 17:55, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
:::DF2010 requires farms to have mud whether on rock or soil layers. Cheers--[[Special:Contributions/99.67.238.66|99.67.238.66]] 00:50, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::::Technically, it’s the bug that requires it (if I’m reading all the information correctly). It seems that DF 2010 is supposed to allow farms on soil regardless of mud. (Am I right, or is this actually intended behaviour?) I had thought that the bug was that you couldn’t build the farms without the mud, but that doesn’t appear to be the case. You can build the farms just fine, but the code doesn’t appear to “see” any valid seeds to plant after they are built.
::::I tore down my farms (successfully built on soil without mud), flooded the area, and then built them again and sure enough the farms now “see” the seeds I have. --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 19:54, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I thought that farms not growing without mud underground was a purposeful change on Toady's part. I suppose I assumed that because of how subterranean trees only grow in muddied soil. Also you don't have to have mud, above ground farms accept all the correct seeds if on soil that issn't irrigated. --[[Special:Contributions/99.67.238.66|99.67.238.66]] 22:00, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::Hmmm. I thought that the only reason mud was needed for the underground trees was because they were on rock, not soil. Regardless, after testing it out, here's what I found:
::::::- You can *build* a farm on any soil (above ground or below)
::::::- Only the farm built above ground will "see" any available seeds (assuming no mud)
::::::- You can build an underground farm on soil and muddy the ground *afterward*
::::::- You can build a farm on part muddied ground and part soil and it will be able to "see" available seeds. HOWEVER, your dwarves will only plant on the muddied part of the farm.
::::::- Water both provides mud *and* washes it away. If you build an underground room with a hole in the ceiling and mark that hole with a "pond" zone so your dwarves bring water to it and dump the water in the room, you will see piles of mud appear on some of the tiles and be washed off of others (no idea what determines which of the two happen).
::::::And that was the extent of my testing. --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 01:47, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

::::::: Finally got around to trying to build a farm on muddied soil above-ground with a natural wall on the next level down. Testing shows that no seeds can be used on such terrain. So for DF2010 above-ground farms must be built on soil (muddied or unmuddied) and underground farms can grow on any terrain as long as the tiles are muddy. Above-ground farms will not work on muddied rock tiles. I'll go ahead and add this to the actual page.--[[Special:Contributions/99.67.238.66|99.67.238.66]] 21:05, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

:::::::: This is simply not true (in 31.18), you can even create an above ground farm on casted obsidian (and microcline and gabbro; I tested those three) after irrigation. And yes, it produces crops. --[[User:ZetaX|ZetaX]] 14:54, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

::::::: ''You can build a farm on part muddied ground and part soil and it will be able to "see" available seeds. HOWEVER, your dwarves will only plant on the muddied part of the farm.'' - This isn't exactly true. I just found out that if the top left square of the farm doesn't have mud, then NONE of the farm will activate. I muddied my farm plot, but missed two squares in the top left. rebuilt the farm and it didn't work; rebuilt the farm slightly smaller so that the top left corner was muddied and the farm turned on. [[Special:Contributions/71.202.179.67|71.202.179.67]] 19:29, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

== Merge ==
I don't see why we need a separate page for [[Farm Plot]] and [[Farming]]. Merger anyone? [[User:Kenji 03|Kenji 03]] 12:28, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:Also, labors are typically described in their respective skill page. In this case, [[DF2010:Farmer|Farmer]] --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 13:05, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
::Both pages exist as full pages in the 40d namespace, in addition to a farmer page. This suggests that there is sufficient material for all three pages, although someone would need to spend more time reviewing how the topic space was divided in 40d to figure out why. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:44, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

::Farming describes the concept, plant uses, importance, possibilities and caveats; Overview. Farm plot goes right down to 'key-pressing' and 'cursor-moving', that is, details and step-to-step. Ultimately it is an article on a building. I don't recall ever using the page Farm plot, but I think we should keep the 2. Looking over the old versions, I think the distinction should be made clearer, though. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 14:34, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

:::I agree, but with all the new info and users this approach seems not viable for now. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 18:56, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

== Farming Chart ==

[[Image:Df-crops-diagram.png|thumb|200px|General farming flowchart.]]
I found this chart to the right in the 40d farming page. I was just wondering if it is still current, so we can put it in the current page.
:As far as I can tell, yeah, it's still accurate. I haven't run into any changes in this part of the game, and I've always found this chart to be exceedingly helpful... Though a little messy. Perhaps we could do up a cleaner version of it for the new page? --Kydo 07:43, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
:: There, how's this? --Kydo 08:28, 17 October 2010 (UTC) [[Image:FarmG2.png|Thumb|200px|Proposed New Version]]
:::There is a similar table in [[DF2010:Crop]]. A table/chart for farming should preferably illustrate the processes of farming and not (re)iterate the specific crops and products. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 12:52, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

::::I didn't even know that page existed! Considering it has a superior version of a chart that was always far more useful han the page it was on, shouldn't it be more readily available? I mean, there's just one off-handed link in the article, and another in the related articles section. --Kydo 15:07, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

::I'd say that the only improvement old farming process flowchart could utilize is grouping plants, drinks and products that have all options identical into blocks and not just color-coding by type and an arrow to uses. It may be harder to do with partially-overlapping groups though.--[[User:Another|Another]] 13:29, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

== Harvesting ==
Probably it ought to be noted that if your dwarves aren't quick enough to harvest a ripe bit of crop, it will wither and become refuse (happens to me when I set "Only Farmers harvest").--[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 09:52, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
: I gather that's less of a problem if you have at least one dedicated farmer per x# of tiles, but I would like to read a recommendation for how many 'x' should be.[[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 17:52, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
:: That depends on the distance they have to travel from where they spend their spare time, sleep and so on to the farm. If the farms are adjacent to the dining room and bedrooms then a single farmer can manage a lot of tiles as long as that is all he/she does. If the farm is on the other side of the map, it may take many more farmers for the same amount of squares. You have to use trial and error for each setup. --[[User:Axussriddare|Axussriddare]] 15:24, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

== Indication of buggy behaviour ==

It's been reverted multiple times whenever someone adds the "due to a bug" statement, so I'll state my reason on why this should be made clear: new players. If someone new plays DF, they may think the irrigation process is too complex if they do it first thing. Like many of our first fortresses, farming is supposed to be a long term goal (fortress 1: farm plot built; fortress 2: plump helmet planted; fortress 3: sustainable farming; fortress 4: irrigation done) and forcing it onto them isn't a good idea, considering that it is a bug, and Toady has stated he'll look at it eventually. If nobody comes up with a good reason '''not''' to add this information, I'll re-add it. --[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] 19:56, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
:Since nobody commented, I'll re-add the bug notice. --[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] 20:52, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

== Problem with farm plot sending jobs ==

I made a 22 tile farm plot on muddied sand, a single tile in the corner was not muddied. It still let me build the plot, but until I resized the plot to make it not include that tile, my farm plot would not send jobs out.-[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 21:53, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

== maximum stack size ==

What is the max size of a crop stack? Does high enough growing skill make potash irrelevant? [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 17:45, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
:Not sure about 0.31, but back in 40d the maximum crop stack size was 6 (with a lot of luck and a highly skilled farmer), and according to Toady you could boost that all the way to 11 using potash. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:44, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
:: 11? That's ridiculous. That's not even funny.

== Harvest Apathy ==

Has anyone encountered a bug wherein your planters go on seeding farm plots, but no one is willing to harvest anything? No one will touch the withered plants either (unless they're designated for dumping).

I switched between harvest options during different seasons, left plots fallow, rotated crops and so on to no effect.

Halp?

: You probably accidentally turned on "Dwarves Ignore Food." o-f to re-enable. [[User:Niveras|Niveras]] 02:48, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

::I've done that before in the past, so that was the first thing I checked. They've still got "Dwarves Gather Food". However, a third save/quit just fixed the problem. The only messages in my errorlog.txt are pathing-related. I don't know what the deal was. I'm going to try to reproduce the problem now.

:: I just saw that happen for three seasons in a row after a big Depot run, and noticed that everyone with Farming enabled would put planting ahead in priority when crops were still in the field. I turned some of them off and confined them all to burrow, and they finally caught during the next caravan. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 13:23, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

== Attributes ==

Are there any attributes that affect farming? Where in the raws would you check to find out?--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 00:12, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

== Not all squares being used ==

{{Farming|Farm plots in action}}
<blockquote>
Depending on the number of growers and their experience and the rate at which the plant grows, not all squares of large plots may be used
</blockquote>

There is no explanation of why this happens, or how to avoid it. I still have this problem to this day. Do one of the farming skills affect how many tiles of land a dwarf can maintain? Or is this caused by tiles not being muddied? I have over 200 plump helmet spawn, but only 4-5 tiles of my 6x6 grid of farm is being planted in. I am unsure why, inspecting the tiles describes they are all muddied or have a dusting of mud, and they are all the same material (sandy loam).

One way I avoid this is by farming in caverns. I've actually started to use caverns alone because of this suspected bug. Someone please shed some light on this issue, hopefully it's something simple. I know I am not alone, my friend asked me the same question and I was unable to answer him. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:RadGH|RadGH]]

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Spambot attacks

2011-02-09T03:28:41Z

DeMatt: /* IP bans */ new section

===One Possible Solution===

The spambots are really getting out of hand. Do we know if they're targeting us specifically? If not, it might help to put something like a nonce on the signup page: just a text box where it forces you to type "magma" to sign up or something else unique to this site to thwart bots. The spammers won't adapt their software to spam us unless it's worth the effort, and if they're just hunting down random wikis to spam, it's probably not worth their effort and they'll go away. [[User:Uristocrat|Uristocrat]] 04:09, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
: I've already added several things to help deter spambots, which has stemmed a large percentage (we're actually only seeing about .5% of the attacks make it to an actual account registration and post). I'll see about incorporating that as well here in the near future. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 05:02, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
:: Good to know. I saw another thread about a different spam attack on this wiki when I was looking around and I sent a contact at Google's anti-spam division some ideas about how to combat wiki-spam like what happened here, given that it apparently made it into Google's index at one point. No clue if they'll do anything, but they did make an algorithm change recently, so you never know. And anything that kills their incentive for spamming us is good. I've heard good things about making your site unique (even via dead-simple tests, so long as too many people aren't using the exact same thing), so hopefully that helps get rid of that last 0.5%. I see that we're already using rel=nofollow and such, so best of luck combating the spambot menace. [[User:Uristocrat|Uristocrat]] 05:26, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

===Anything we can do?===

I'm watching some spambots attack right now and you guys don't appear to be online to banish them at the moment. I've blanked out the spam I could find and replaced it with the deletion template. I also marked the two user pages for the confirmed spammers with the same template. I don't really know if that helps or not, but is there anything we normal users can do to help kick these spammers out? [[User:Uristocrat|Uristocrat]] 07:12, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
:What you are doing is extremely helpful (marking them, marking pages for deletion, etc.) Remember that we're only seeing less than .5% of the spam attacks attempted against the wiki, we're working on solutions to kick out the last few successful attacks (we are under rather heavy attack at the moment.) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 12:39, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
::I assume you want us to use the AIV page that I now see in announcements as a place to report this stuff? Also, I traced the spam from here to a bunch of other MediaWiki/Drupal sites. They're building an entire web of spam links across random pages as a sort of blackhat SEO trick. Most of the links in their spam pages point to compromised Wikis and such; you can follow them via that. I can't trace this by hand any more. There are too many dead wikis out there and only maybe one in ten or twenty appears to be fighting back. A quick check of "recent changes" on most of them shows that all recent edits are spam. As near as I can tell, the attacks started around 27 JAN 2011, but I only looked at a few sites, so maybe I didn't go far enough back. If you can, check the logs to see if there are any suspicious search queries; that might tell us how they found us. Anyhow, I'll keep tagging them if I find them. [[User:Uristocrat|Uristocrat]] 20:42, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Yeah listing accounts to be blocked/deleted on AIV is the idea. Still mark pages with <nowiki>{{del|spam}}</nowiki> though. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 00:13, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
::::I'm seeing lots of users joining (probably spambots), but I'm not seeing more spam pages. That's good. Except for the fact that they're still trying to break in, I guess you have it under control now? [[User:Uristocrat|Uristocrat]] 10:52, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

== IP bans ==

Can you ban IP addresses, instead of waiting for the accounts to be made? Or are they too random, or shared with actual users? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 03:28, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

User talk:Thecostalnecroplank

2011-02-09T03:26:11Z

DeMatt: ...really?

Hi. Not a spambot.
:A statement easily coded into the instruction set of a spambot. Therefore, I do hereby defy thee to prove otherwise! --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 03:26, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Figurine

2011-02-06T23:10:42Z

DeMatt: /* Inspiration */ Dunno.

== Inspiration ==

What does it mean by "inspiration"? I have ideas, but it still doesn't make much sense.--[[User:Joejr50|Joejr50]] 21:39, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
:Dunno. So I took it out. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 23:10, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

v0.31:Figurine

2011-02-06T23:10:11Z

DeMatt: Removed "inspiration", as it did not inspire any means of replicating it.

{{quality|Fine|08:00, 22 May 2010 (UTC)}}{{av}}
A figurine is a {{L|trade good}} crafted at a {{l|craftsdwarf's workshop}} by the "Make rock crafts" job; you cannot specifically request a figurine to be made. Similar to {{l|engraving}}s, they can show historic events, depict creatures, venerate religious figures, or list something about a person the {{l|craftsdwarf}} knows.

''Figurines: collect the whole set today!''

v0.31:Finished goods

2011-02-06T23:06:43Z

DeMatt: /* Crafts */ Link to Figurine page.

{{quality|Exceptional|08:00, 22 May 2010 (UTC)}}{{av}}
'''Finished goods''' are items that go to a finished goods {{L|stockpile}} when made. Many of these items are frequently referred to as trade goods as they are lightweight and only useful for {{L|trading}}. They include '''crafts''', '''goblets''', '''instruments''', '''toys''', '''large gems''', and '''totems''', some of which have several sub-types.

There is no way to issue a job order for a specific subtype of a good with multiple subtypes. If you have a mandate to make piccolos, the best you can do is to order instruments and hope for the best.

Some types of trade goods can be produced in multiples. It is possible to get up to three crafts from a single resource. The chance of multiples is increased with more {{L|experience}} in the craftsdwarf skill. Mugs will ''always'' be made in threes, so they are more productive in terms of value than other trade goods (unless an import agreement offers a high price for another type of trade good).

==Types of trade goods==

===Crafts===
Crafts include {{l|figurine|'''figurines'''}}, {{L|jewelry|'''rings''', '''earrings''', '''amulets''', '''bracelets''', '''crowns'''}}, and '''scepters'''. They are the only type of trade good that appears on its own page in the Trade Depot menu.

===Goblets===
Goblets have no subtypes, but have different names depending on the material from which they are made: rock goblets are called '''mugs''', and wooden goblets are called '''cups'''. Dwarfs would rather die than be forced to use a mug. Stone mugs can be found under the 'Flasks/Waterskins' section of the Move Trade Goods interface.

===Instruments===
Instruments include '''drums''', '''flutes''', '''harps''', '''trumpets''', and '''piccolos'''.

===Toys===
Toys include '''mini-forges''', '''toy hammers''', '''toy axes''', '''toy boats''', and '''puzzleboxes'''.

===Totems===
Totems are made from skulls by a {{L|bone carver}} at a {{L|craftsdwarf's workshop}}. Totems cannot be built as permanent structures, but careful management of custom {{L|stockpile}}s will allow the player to place totems at artistically pleasing locations around the fortress.

Although totems have the same base {{L|value}} as all other crafts, totems made from the skulls of more valuable animals like {{L|unicorn}}s will fetch a hefty price.

===Large gems===
Large gems have no subtypes. It is not possible to issue a job order for large gems; instead, cutting any {{L|gem}} or raw {{L|glass}} has a chance to produce a large gem instead of ordinary cut gems. Gems and glass also have a chance to be cut into crafts this way. In fact, glass crafts cannot be made directly at a {{L|glass furnace}}, and must be acquired through the processing of raw glass by a gem cutter.

==Materials==
Most materials can be used to make trade goods. On occasion, a {{L|dwarf}} in a {{L|strange mood}} will make a trade good out of a material not normally suited for it (e. g., a cloth instrument).

{| border = 1 cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5"
| align="center" style="background:#f0f0f0;"|'''Material'''
| align="center" style="background:#f0f0f0;"|'''Labor'''
| align="center" style="background:#f0f0f0;"|'''Workshop'''
| align="center" style="background:#f0f0f0;"|'''Crafts'''
| align="center" style="background:#f0f0f0;"|'''Goblets'''
| align="center" style="background:#f0f0f0;"|'''Instruments'''
| align="center" style="background:#f0f0f0;"|'''Toys'''
| align="center" style="background:#f0f0f0;"|'''Large Gems'''
|-
| {{L|Stone}}||{{L|Stone_crafter|Stonecrafting}}||{{L|Craftsdwarf's workshop}}||Y||Y||Y||Y||N
|-
| {{L|Wood}}||{{L|Woodcrafting}}||{{L|Craftsdwarf's workshop}}||Y||Y||Y||Y||N
|-
| {{L|Leather}}||{{L|Leatherworking}}||{{L|Craftsdwarf's workshop}}||Y||N||N||N||N
|-
| {{L|Cloth}}||{{L|Clothier|Clothesmaking}}||{{L|Craftsdwarf's workshop}}||Y||N||N||N||N
|-
| {{L|Bone}}1||{{L|Bone carving}}||{{L|Craftsdwarf's workshop}}||Y||N||N||N||N
|-
| {{L|Shell}}||{{L|Bone carving}}||{{L|Craftsdwarf's workshop}}||Y||N||N||N||N
|-
| {{L|Metal}}||{{L|Metalcrafting}}||{{L|Metalsmith's forge}} or {{L|Magma forge}}||Y||Y||Y||Y||N
|-
| {{L|Glass}}||{{L|Glassmaking}}||{{L|Glass furnace}} or {{L|Magma glass furnace}}||Y2||Y||Y||Y||Y2
|-
| {{L|Gems}}||{{L|Gem cutting}}||{{L|Jeweler's workshop}}||Y2||N||N||N||Y2
|}
1 Skull totems, like bone crafts, are also made by a bone carver at a craftsdwarf's workshop.

2 See {{L|Trade good#Large gems|Large gems}} above. Large glass gems are cut at a jeweler's workshop, not a glass furnace.

{{Category:Items}}

v0.31 Talk:Weapon

2011-02-06T23:01:27Z

DeMatt: /* Material Cost */ One.

==I broke his head with my shield while training==

I'm a little confused as to what happened exactly, but I saw this turn of events:

1. Mayor has tantrum
2. sheriff has tantrum
3. another dworf was doing some sort of training demostration with sheriff
4. sherrif hits mayor with wooden buckler(I think), mayor has brain damage and dies
5. "another dworf" dies from some unknown cause (I dont recall :S)
6. Tantrum ends

My question is, did they only get killed because it was a tantrum, or is it possible to kill a dwarf during training, using a shield (As its not classed as a "training" weapon? --[[User:Djsmiley2k|Djsmiley2k]] 10:01, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

==Thijser wants people to test things==
A lot of tests should be put here
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/User:Thijser/Test so that we can gather as many results as passble. Maybe someone could put this on the basic page aswell. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:85.147.110.73|85.147.110.73]]

== Weight of the weapon ==
{{L|Weight}} now seems to play a significant factor in determining a weapon's effectiveness. A weapon that is very light ''(made of {{L|adamantine}}, for instance)'' will not be as effective as a heavier one. This needs more research.
-Moved discussion material to the discussion page
[[User:Studoku|Studoku]] 03:03, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

:Unfortunately it is a great deal more complicated than just the weight of a weapon. If the weapon an edge(such as a sword or axe) then the shear values of the material used become important. On the other hand, mass seems to be much more important to blunt type weapons such as mauls and war hammers. But it isn't know exactly how any of this works. It is all very unbalanced right now anyway, partly because Toady intends to add item damage to the combat system in the "soon™". Some of the counter intuitive quirks that are observed are because of the incomplete physical modeling. Some are bugs, others are design decisions that seem to stem from compromises in other parts of DF. Explanations of how the weapon/armor/wound system work from Toady are needed to understand what is going on, though a broad understanding may be possible on the basis of empirical testing. Regardless, extensive empirical testing is necessary to establish and test balance issues. It is all very much still a work in progress, especially given the current rapid rate of bug fix roll outs. It might not be a bad idea to start by creating creature like format pages for each of the weapons and materials, sense they are all in the raws now. -[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 18:27, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

== Table of weapons? ==
I propose a table of weapons on this page. The list of weapons from the raws follows. --[[User:StrongAxe|StrongAxe]] 16:28, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_WHIP]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_BATTLE]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HAMMER_WAR]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MACE]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CROSSBOW]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PICK]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BOW]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BLOWGUN]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PIKE]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HALBERD]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_2H]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_LONG]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MAUL]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_GREAT]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_DAGGER_LARGE]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SCOURGE]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_FLAIL]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MORNINGSTAR]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SCIMITAR]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_TRAINING]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT_TRAINING]
*[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR_TRAINING]

--I wholeheartedly second this suggestion. This was quite helpful for making a custom shop, so it should either be put here or in a page about item_subtypes. 14:14, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== TRAINING WEAPONS ==

The military system is bugged as hell right now, but given that, how are training weapons '''intended''' to work? It seems like dwarves treat training weapons exactly as any other weapon, and will only train with training weapons if manually equipped or part of their uniform. Is it possible to have dwarves train with wooden weapons and then make a quick switch to real ones in case of an attack without having to wait on the arsenal dwarf to sign off on the changes? -Slothen
--[[Special:Contributions/99.96.100.228|99.96.100.228]] 19:54, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
:As far as I can tell, it's simply incomplete. The only real function you could have for them now is to have separate training squads equipped with them. They seem rather irrelevant considering that the only training I've seen my dwarves do is individual combat drill.[[User:The Architect|The Architect]] 02:26, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
: There's a minor bug, wooden training axes can be used to cut down trees. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:57, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

== Foreign Weapons ==

=== MOODS & FOREIGN WEAPONS ===

I had a dwarf make a blowgun via a mood. Is this expected behaviour or a bug? Either way I think it should be noted that you can create foreign weapons via moods. [[User:EvilGrin|EvilGrin]] 23:28, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
: I have seen this too: my strange mood weaponsmith made an iron scourge. I've reworded the opening sentence to reflect this reality. [[User:Timbojones|Timbojones]] 00:22, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::Did the dwarf had a certain affinity for blowguns or was he a blowgunner?--[[Special:Contributions/190.231.136.138|190.231.136.138]] 23:09, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Wooden Weapons? ===
Each time I get elven traders, they have wooden weapons and armour for sale. e.g wooden long swords and wooden breast plates.
It doesn't say that they are training weapons either. But in the wiki here, it says that you can't get wooden weapons.
[[Special:Contributions/219.89.205.8|219.89.205.8]] 05:45, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
:If you read the notice on the Foreign Weapons section, you would know that those "allowed materials" are actually useless for unmodded dwarf mode. Since I don't think this page is about modding, I'll remove the materials. --[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] 16:28, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
::Wait, what? I've traded for wooden swords et al. from the Elves. Are you saying my dwarves can't use them in melee? If that's true, please include it in this wiki page. I presume they're usable in weapon traps? Please clarify. -- [[User:Maunder|Maunder]] 05:28, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
:::You can USE them (if they're not too large, like pikes and halberds), you just can't MAKE them. In general, the "made of wood" bad trumps the "non-dwarven types" good, and you're better off with homegrown weaponry. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 05:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

=== Can Dwarves Use These? ===
I noticed that the 2010 version has no notes about dwarves not being able to use things like pikes, mauls, two-handed swords, and great axes. Has this changed since 40D? I get a lot of pikedwarfs. [[User:Aussiemon|Aussiemon]] 16:13, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
: I think they can use pikes and other large weapons if you decrease the weapon's required-user-size. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:57, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

== Ammunition for Ranged Weapons ==

How can I make bolts. Or I should trade them instead? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Trepach|Trepach]]
:As crossbow bolts are native dwarven weapons, you can make bone and wood bolts at a {{l|Craftsdwarf's workshop}}, or metal ones at a {{l|Metalsmith's forge|forge}}. Try looking at the page for {{l|Bolt}}s instead of just the generic Weapon page. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 16:14, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

== Ranged Foreign Weapons ==

=== Poison on ammunition/weapons ===
All the underground races wear only spears or blowguns. The blowgun darts poison the attacked creature. How? Cause they are poisoned. And the poison is on the BLOWDARTS! Just View them and look at the blowdarts. As far as I saw they have either cave spider venom or GIANT cave spider venom on them. So you can poison you weapons by dropping poison on them, but how? --[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 18:37, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

:Dwarves don't have that option. We can extract venom from phantom spiders and cave spiders, but we can't apply it to anything. See [[Extracts]]. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Illeist|Illeist]]

=== Immigrant skills ===
I've had immigrant dwarves with skills to use bows and blowguns. So I gave them appropriate weapons I traded or fought for. But I can't make nor trade for the ammunition? What? This should be considered a bug. Either let us make arrows/darts, or don't give dwarves the skills. -- [[User:Maunder|Maunder]] 05:38, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
:Elves often have arrows. Humans sometimes do. Darts are more a cave civilization thing, and you can't trade with them. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 05:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

== One-handed or two-handed? ==

It would be helpful if it showed whether weapons were one-handed or two-handed on the wiki. I looked in the raws and on each weapon there seems to be a two-handed tag with an accompanying number. I would assume that number is the minimum size at which a creature can wield the weapon one handed, but I'm not 100% sure about that. Also, I recall some talk in the forums about whether there is a bonus to wielding some weapons two-handed, stemming from a test wherein speardwarves without shields fared better than speardwarves with shields.
I'm not sure how the weapon's one handed versus two-handed status would be shown, as it appears to vary based on the race you are playing, but if it can be shown without too much confusion, I feel it would be for the better. A section explaining one-handed versus two-handed weapon use would be useful, if only to have it officially unknown what the effects are.
[[User:Monkeyfetus|Monkeyfetus]] 21:17, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

== Maces vs. Hammers ==

They are both blunt weapons of same size, so what is the difference between the two?

:Training with a warhammer increases the hammer skill, which is also used by marksdwarves when they run out of ammo and beat their enemies with their crossbows. If your weaponsmith has a preference for either weapon it makes sense to make that one. According to {{L|Item value}}, warhammers are worth twice as much as maces. But whether there's any difference in combat between the two weapons, I don't think anyone can yet say. If there's a difference it should be discernible by testing in the arena. [[User:Bognor|Bognor]] 07:36, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

:The raws for the two weapons are as follows
<code>[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HAMMER_WAR]
[NAME:war hammer:war hammers]
[SIZE:400]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[TWO_HANDED:37500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:32500]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10:200:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:2000]</code>

<code>[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MACE]
[NAME:mace:maces]
[SIZE:800]
[SKILL:MACE]
[TWO_HANDED:37500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:32500]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:20:200:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:2000]</code>
:I remember hearing that the only difference in the initial DF2010 release was the smaller contact area of the warhammer, but it appears that the size of the mace has increased since then. Now, the mace has twice the size (and therefore, mass and weight) as well as contact area of a warhammer. The mace is heavier, and may slow your troops down slightly more, but it should deliver the same force per square inch (or whatever unit you wish to use), and do it over a larger area, which I 'think' would make it more deadly. I'm not an expert on Dwarf Fortress combat, so if you want more detail or more reliable answers you could check out the forums. [[User:Monkeyfetus|Monkeyfetus]] 21:52, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

:I just tested them in 0.31.12 in the arena by a mass melee of 18 macedwarves vs. 18 hammerdwarves, all of them decked out in bronze armor with an iron mace/warhammer, and each at "skilled" level in all basic (non-weapon-specific) combat skills along with "skilled" the appropriate weapon skill (mace/hammer). It ended with 12 hammerdwarves still standing and all macedwarves dead, and in a second test with 13 hammerdwarves still standing.
:I went on to test similar setups (regarding armor, skill setup, and iron weapons) with the other weapons. Swords and axes were close with swords being perhaps slightly better, with spears, maces, and hammers doing better than either of those. Spears seemed like a bit of a wild card; mostly they would overwhelmingly lose against maces or hammers, but sometimes they would just about break even (once with 20vs20 spears vs hammers, only 2 hammerdwarves survived). So, from my testing, it seems to me that against armored opponents, the progression is something like: axes>swords>>>spears>>maces>>hammers. I did a quick unarmored test out of curiosity with swords vs hammers (I did give them shields, though), and it's perhaps no surprise that the swordsdwarves won pretty overwhelmingly in that case two times in a row (11 and 13 surviving, respectively). I ran 4 unarmored hammer vs. mace battles, and hammers won 3 out of 4 of those with around half surviving, with the fourth battle being barely won by maces. So without armor, hammers still seem to be the better weapon of the two, if not by as much. Then again, the RNG might have just been throwing me some crazy results the whole time. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 19:20, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
:One can analyze the arena combat logs in a spreadsheet, by sorting the events (by ",in the bodypart" and ",through the X armor") and counting successful and failing hits. Pretty easy to do 30 vs 30 test, the boring part is adding the armor to the dwarves. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:57, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

== We dont have wooden training hammers but... ==

Can't we use ammoless wooden xbows as hammers?--[[Special:Contributions/190.231.136.138|190.231.136.138]] 23:13, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

:Dammit, that's brilliant! Dunno why I never thought of that. I don't think training weapons are necessary for sparring (sparring injuries are rare or absent in 0.31.12), but this trick could extend the time for hammerdwarves to beat unarmed goblins or whatever in live training. [[User:Bognor|Bognor]] 10:38, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

== Artifact Weapons ==

How does a weapon made in a mood affect the weapons effectiveness? Does it at all? Also when weapons are named what difference does this make?
:Artifact weapons have the highest quality modifier, which AFAIK makes them hit more accurately and penetrate/cut more effectively than lower-quality weapons. I don't think naming a weapon changes its performance, just whether it's mentioned in Legends mode and in artwork. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 05:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

== Columns Mean Whatnow? ==
The data in these tables is not useful to new players, and there is no discussion of how to interpret these tables. What is the tradeoff between a larger penetration and greater velocity? Why are some of the numbers in parentheses? --[[User:Romeofalling|Romeofalling]] 20:05, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
:You're right - the numbers aren't useful. That's because we don't know what the formulae are. Judging from the variables present, Toady seems to be trying to model the physics much more accurately than your average RPG; if you're really interested in optimizing your combatants that much, digging out some university-level physics texts and running through the sections on elastic collisions and material deformation would be helpful. The parentheses, at least, indicate that the value present in the raws is irrelevant - BLUNT attacks don't actually penetrate.

:If you're just being confused by the big lists o' numbers, forget 'em and ask yourself if you want your dwarves to be waving around axes or spears or whatnot. Then make lots of your choice. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 01:16, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

::Actually, I'm trying to figure out if I should equip my Talented Lasher immigrant with the (+iron scourge+) and/or 3 (bronze whips) harvested from my first goblin ambush. I've also got 4 Knife Users - Talented, Professional, Adequate and Novice. No daggers yet, though. (You've already given valuable advice about the availability of arrows for my Novice Bowdwarf, DeMatt. Thanks for that.) Trying to get a sense of relative damage potential by the skill/weapon combos is....well, impossible, I guess, given that we don't have the formulae. Still, it's cool that dwarves can now wear goblin-forged armor. --[[User:Romeofalling|Romeofalling]] 02:07, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

==obsidian==
still like steel? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:99.130.202.198|99.130.202.198]]
:No.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:68.203.1.164|68.203.1.164]]

==ore/weapon==
battle axe evidently needs 4 wafers. Short sword needs 3– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:99.130.202.198|99.130.202.198]]

==Hammers==
Since blunt weapons damage is related to the weight of the weapon would it make sense to make War Hammers out of a heavy metal. like lead if that is possible.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:198.53.163.246|198.53.163.246]]
:Yes. Silver is the easiest to make them out of.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:68.203.1.164|68.203.1.164]]

== Material effectiveness? ==

I've seen mentions of the different materials having "Sheer" and "Density" qualities that make them good for slashing/piercing and bludgeoning attacks respectfully, but I haven't seen any explanation, or even a list of which materials are better than others for each category. Can someone help me here? --[[User:Twilightdusk|Twilightdusk]] 02:20, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:Not well no.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:68.203.1.164|68.203.1.164]]
::You could try looking at [[DF2010:Metal#Weapon_.26_Armor_Quality|the Metal page]], and see if that helps you out. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 05:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

== Decorations ==

This question has been popping up forever and given the absurd amount of decorations possible (especially on artifacts) I think it is rather important that we learn; do decorations increase weight for weapon effectiveness? Has anyone tested this?– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:68.203.1.164|68.203.1.164]]
:No, decorations don't weigh anything. I've got a slate door artifact with nine decorations, two of which are of reasonably weighty materials (iron and more slate), and it weighs the same as a plain slate door. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 05:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

== Preferences and Attachments ==

I have a (Swords)dwarf who has not killed anything other than boredom, and only recruited for about 6 months now. Already he has grown attached to two steel items. A steel spear, and a steel shield. After checking the preferences, I found that he is fond of steel. Maybe preferences influences attachment speed?--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 01:22, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== How about picks? ==

I tried picks -vs- axes in the arena. It seems like picks are much better at armor penetration that axes. But how do you make a pick user skillful in the arena?

Can you arm soldiers with picks? Do they use mining skill to attack?

:Picks use the mining skill in combat. Your legendary +5 miner would be quite effective as early defense against goblins snatchers, kobold thieves and macaques. As a civilian skil, mining cannot be adjusted in arena mode. --[[User:Blur|Blur]] 18:46, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

== Named weapons ==
I got three weapons named, one spear, one mace, and one ''shield''. The dwarf which named shield and mace liked the material they were made of. This could also be important. The namend weapons do not have a kill list anymore. --[[User:Blur|Blur]] 15:46, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

== Material Cost ==

Can someone please add a list of how many bars/wafers every weapon needs to be made? It would be very helpful for me.--[[User:Joejr50|Joejr50]] 04:43, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
:One. Currently, due to a (minor and possibly intentional) bug, every forge product requires only one bar/wafer. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 23:01, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

v0.31:Light

2011-02-06T22:58:22Z

DeMatt: Redirect to Tile Attributes.

#REDIRECT [[DF2010:Tile_attributes]]

v0.31 Talk:Kennel

2011-01-23T20:17:51Z

DeMatt: /* Workaround the for the no Dungeon Master bug? */

I have been having trouble taming creatures, but other than that it seems like kennels haven't particularly changed.

==2010 Best animals for military?==

So now we have War Elephants, War Grizzly Bears, Giant War Eagles and even War Dragons. How about we collectively decide which is the best (strongest, most accessible, easiest to breed, etc.).
I really like Elephants as they are way strong and Giant Eagles because they can fly. Grizzly bears are really accessible from elves and they can be the front lines against goblins to make way for your dwarves.
Haven't really tested much, but from what I have observed, Elephants are the strongest due to their size, but the others seem to do quite well against goblins, too. Now which ones are massed up easily, are tanks, are fast, are strong, are dispensable (I always feel bad when my hard-worked Elephants die, as I always attach to them, same goes for Eagles... until they start breeding properly).
What do you think? --[[User:Speed112|Speed112]] 3:54 AM, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
:Dogs, probably. Available everywhere, breed fast, grow fast, half-decent stats. My (very limited) experience with War Giant Eagles suggests that they aren't as good as their wild cousins... their stats are better (thanks to training), but while they CAN fly, they DON'T fly, choosing to follow their trainer/master around on the ground. So the Giant Eagle's biggest advantage (hit-and-run from the sky) is lost... and they don't have the stats to match goblins one-on-one. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 01:32, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

==2010 War Dogs==

Is it just me, or are war dogs barely worth the investment? Mine do virtually no damage to anything and just get themselves killed (I've just had one killed by a troglodyte, of all things).--[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 12:29, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

* Individually they don't do a lot of damage, but it's pretty easy to get a swarm of them - and a war dog swarm is a force to be reckoned with.
** forget dogs -- Elephants breed just as fast and if you know the trick you can get them more easily (on a jungle biome)
*** Elephants may breed just as fast, but it takes '''ten years''' for them to become trainable. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:14, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
**** Small numbers of war dogs are only useful to stop enemies for a while until the military arrives. Currently, I create a squad with one legendary dwarf and 55 war dogs. That should be quite effective. --[[User:Blur|Blur]] 11:02, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

==2010 [TRAINABLE] animals==

Since apparently [[Elephant|Elephants]] are now trainable, someone needs to compile a list of animals that can be trained into war animals and added to this page for easy listing [[Special:Contributions/68.161.167.37|68.161.167.37]] 13:35, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Here you go, this is everything with the tags in the raws. Note there are none with [TRAINABLE_WAR] --[[User:StrongAxe|StrongAxe]] 13:48, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
*[TRAINABLE]
**[CREATURE:DOG]
**[CREATURE:BIRD_EAGLE_GIANT]
**[CREATURE:BEAR_GRIZZLY]
**[CREATURE:ELEPHANT]
**[CREATURE:LION]
**[CREATURE:LEOPARD]
**[CREATURE:JAGUAR]
**[CREATURE:TIGER]
**[CREATURE:CHEETAH]
**[CREATURE:MANDRILL]
**[CREATURE:GORILLA]
**[CREATURE:BEAR_POLAR]
**[CREATURE:LION_GIANT]
**[CREATURE:LEOPARD_GIANT]
**[CREATURE:JAGUAR_GIANT]
**[CREATURE:TIGER_GIANT]
**[CREATURE:CHEETAH_GIANT]
**[CREATURE:DRAGON]
*[TRAINABLE_HUNTING]
**[CREATURE:BAT_GIANT]
**[CREATURE:BIRD_SWALLOW_CAVE_GIANT]

Does anyone know the difference between [TRAINABLE] and [TRAINABLE_WAR]? If there's no difference can we assume Toady has an idea he has yet to implement... [[User:Numeral|Numeral]] 17:58, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
:Given that [TRAINABLE_HUNTING] only allows the creature to be trained for hunting and not for war, it's rather likely that [TRAINABLE_WAR] only allows the creature to be trained for war and not for hunting. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:05, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
::My bad, I was under the assumption that [TRAINABLE] was only for war animals and that to have an animal be hunter trainable and war trainable it needed both [TRAINABLE] and [TRAINABLE_HUNTING] [[User:Numeral|Numeral]] 18:11, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Animals appear to have to be uncaged prior to being trained; a lack of uncaged trainable animals throws up a 'no trainable creatures available' error. Fortunately, dwarves still recognized caged wild animals if ordered to tame them.

== Kennel as Workshop ==

Should it be noted that the kennel isn't built from the workshop menu, but is actually directly under the {{K|b}}uild menu [[Special:Contributions/98.117.151.147|98.117.151.147]] 03:52, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

== Additional Detail? ==
Perhaps it should be added in the article that the creature to be trained has to be roaming the fortress freely and may ''not'' be assigned to a cage or restraint? --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 14:23, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
: I concur. It's not entirely obvious, but to train an animal, said animal has to be able to freely walk to the Kennels. If all trainable animals are restrained, the trainer will cancel the job; however if there if the animal is not restrained but is unable to walk to the Kennel (due to non-Pet-Passable doors), the animal trainer will not cancel the job and the job will never complete.

== Contradictory information ==

The section on taming large animals say you need a caged wild animal, then later says the animal should not be caged at all:

"Requires: '''A caged wild animal''' and an animal trainer.

The animal trainer uses it to tame wild animals not already domesticated, '''such as those caught in cage traps. The creature to be trained has to be roaming the fortress freely and may not be assigned to a cage or restraint'''..."

I read that as "the creature must be caged, but can't be in a cage." Am I missing something, or is this information completely contradictory? --[[Special:Contributions/71.186.242.142|71.186.242.142]] 23:29, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
:'''Taming''' (i.e. turning a wild animal into a tame animal) requires the animal to be caged. '''Training''' (i.e. turning a tame animal into a hunting animal or a war animal) requires the animal to be uncaged and able to walk to the kennel. You are correct, though, that the text in the article was contradictory - it's been fixed now. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:44, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

:: Built or loose cage, or does it matter? [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 21:36, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
::: I've never actually tried taming animals in a built cage - it's probably worth trying out. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:26, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
:::: Taming creatures in built cages works just fine. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:57, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

== Tame megabeasts who've killed dwarves ==

Does anyone know if offscreen dwarf killings (those found in the legends) prevent megabeasts from being truly tame, like it does when a normal creature kills a dwarf of your fortress? --[[User:Peglegpenguin|Peglegpenguin]] 03:53, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

If that made it an enemy of your civilization, same as an onscreen killing. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 19:42, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

==Workaround the for the no Dungeon Master bug?==

I've edited the raws for the giant eagle from [PET_EXOTIC] to just [PET], but the caged eagle I have still isn't tameable - any idea why this is? I edited the raws -after- it was captured, if that makes any difference? [[Special:Contributions/90.198.6.67|90.198.6.67]]
:Mmmm... did you edit the raw files in the specific save folder, or the main DF folder? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 20:17, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Temperature

2011-01-23T20:14:06Z

DeMatt: DF has absolute zero. Absolutely.

==Conversion corrections==
The conversions are faulty, if you should give many temperatures to konvert to, you should see to that the conversions are the same at more than one point... 
--[[User:Zorbeltuss|Zorbeltuss]] 10:55, 25 June 2010 (UTC) 
Or rather the same at any point concerning the Kelvin and Rankine scales... 
--[[User:Zorbeltuss|Zorbeltuss]] 10:59, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
:The Kelvin and Rankine scales are not directly equivalent. Kelvin scale has the same degree interval as Celsius, while Rankine scale has the same degree interval as Fahrenheit. Nevertheless, the Rankine conversion equation is wrong, so I'll fix it. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 11:28, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, I put it badly, as I didn't know the exact numbers to be put I couldn't decide if the number to add from Rankine or Kelvin were right, so I couldn't fix it my self, the multiplier was correct though... --[[User:Zorbeltuss|Zorbeltuss]] 16:03, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
:::the numbers seem to be correct now though--[[User:Roderik|Roderik]] 15:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
::::The conversions are still faulty, the conversion between Celsius and Kelvin is (C + 273 = K), so if the Celsius temperature is [DF scale] = [CELSIUS] * 9/5 + 10000 than Kelvin can't be [DF scale] = [KELVIN] * 9/5 + 9508.33. It should be [DF scale] = [KELVIN] * 9/5 + 9727 --[[User:Hypoaktivna ovca|Hypoaktivna ovca]] 15:45, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::The original was correct: C * 9/5 + 10000 = (K - 273.15) * 9/5 + 10000 = K * 9/5 - (273.15 * 9/5) + 10000 = K*9/5 - 491.67 + 10000 = K * 9/5 + 9508.33. One way to verify this is that zero Kelvin should give the same result as zero Rankine, since they are the same temperature; likewise 273.15 Kelvin and zero Celsius. --[[User:Neil|Neil]] 13:39, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
==Physics of Absolute Zero==
May I point you to another error? It is just a small one, and has nothing to do with conversion from one scale to another. The absolute zero (zero Kelvin) is the temperature that causes the molecules of an ideal gas to stop completely. Therefore, it is only the absolute zero point for an ideal gas. So, in theory, it is actually possible to reach temperatures below 0 Kelvin. -- [[User:Amras|Amras]] 14:59, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:Interesting. And this has what, precisely, to do with physics '''as modeled by Dwarf Fortress'''? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 20:14, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

v0.31:Fuel

2011-01-23T20:06:18Z

DeMatt: /* Fuel: charcoal and coke */ Bit-coal smelts into "coke", not "coal".

{{av}}
{{quality|Masterwork|02:45, 08 November 2010 (UTC)}}
:''(Disambiguation: In Dwarf Fortress, '''{{l|bituminous coal}}''' is not the same as "coal" - see that article if desired.)''

'''Fuel''', '''refined coal''', and just '''coal''' are three in-game terms that refer the same thing, any unit of '''charcoal''' or '''coke''', the two fuels used to power high-temperature industries, namely metalworking and glassworking. One unit of either of these fuels is required for every task at a conventional (non-magma) {{l|smelter}}, {{l|forge}}, {{l|kiln}}, or {{l|glass furnace}}. Magma versions of these facilities do not need fuel, and in fact cannot use conventional fuel to power them if their magma sources fail. Refined coal is also needed as part of the pig iron and steel creation process ''(see [[#Pig iron and steel production|below]])''.

Although both "charcoal" and "coke" are simply listed as such when viewed in the game with the {{k|k}}, they are found under the "bars" section of the [[z-stocks]] menu, and can be used to build {{L|vertical bars}}, and so a unit of fuel is usually considered "a bar". To place bars of fuel in a stockpile, create a Bars/Blocks stockpile, or a {{l|Stockpile#Custom_stockpiles|custom stockpile}} with "coal" (found in the "Bars" sub-category) {{k|e}}nabled and {{k|p}}ermitted.

==Fuel: charcoal and coke==

The two sub-types of fuel are '''''charcoal''''' and '''''coke''''', and they are ''identical'' for in-game purposes, even if they come from different sources and have different in-game names. Whenever you see "fuel", "refined coal" or "coal" in-game, those refer to ''either'' charcoal or coke - they are interchangeable, and either one will serve the same purpose, as fuel for the desired activity. ({{l|Bituminous coal}} is ''not'' the same as "coal", and does ''not'' refer to fuel, but can be converted into coke at a smelter.)

Both charcoal and coke come in {{l|bar}}s, and are stockpiled in Bars/Block {{l|stockpile}}s if the "coal" entry is selected within the "Bars" section. There is currently no way (or need) to distinguish between the two when designating stockpiles.

At the risk of repetition, but to be perfectly clear - ''despite the different names, there is no distinction between charcoal and coke for any game activities.'' Both are "refined coal" or "coal", or just "fuel".

Charcoal and coke are, of course, ''not'' {{l|fire-safe}} building materials.

=== In-game usage ===

The different terms are found in different places in the game, but all refer to the same thing, {{l|bar}}s of either coke or charcoal.

"Fuel" is sometimes used informally in the forums and in various wiki articles. Since some understandable confusion can arise over the usage of the various terms "'''refined coal'''", "'''coal fuel'''", "'''coal'''", "'''charcoal'''" and "'''coke'''" (and also "{{l|bituminous coal}}", which is ''not'' a fuel), the simple umbrella term "fuel" will be used in the explanations in this article.

At a conventional (non-magma) {{l|smelter}}, if you try to add a smelting task and have no fuel, you will see the message:

:<div style="color:white; background-color:black; width:20em; font-weight:bold"><tt>No tasks available Check for raw material access and fuel if necessary</tt></div>
:''(Note that this message will also be seen if there is no {{l|path}} to your workshop or needed materials, including fuel.)''

You will not be allowed to add any tasks to any conventional smelter until that workshop has access to at least one unit of either charcoal or coke. (However, if you have just one bar of un-used fuel, you can queue up as many jobs as you want - see next...)

If you have queued up multiple tasks and then run out of fuel, you will get an {{L|announcement}} similar to:

<blockquote>"'''[[Urist|Urist McFuelUser]] cancels job: needs refined coal.'''"</blockquote>

Note that a forge or glass furnace ''will'' let you add tasks if you have no fuel, and only once a dwarf arrives and finds they cannot complete that task will you get the announcement to that effect. You will get one announcement for each un-fueled task that is unable to be completed. Jobs are canceled when there is no fuel.

When you get either of these messages, you need more fuel - either charcoal or coke will serve equally well.

'''Coal''' is the generic term used in the {{l|stockpile}} menu. It refers to a {{l|bar}} of either charcoal or coke.

== The two sub-types of fuel ==
There are 2 sub-types of conventional fuel - {{l|charcoal}} and {{l|coke}}. Charcoal and coke are identical in use - a single unit of either one powers one activity at a conventional smelter, forge, kiln or glass furnace, or can serve as the ingredient to make {{l|pig iron}} or {{l|steel}}. They are completely interchangeable, the only difference is their source.

{{l|Wood}} does not burn hot enough to fuel these activities or facilities, and (in Dwarf Fortress) you cannot burn raw {{l|bituminous coal}} or {{l|lignite}} (although they are flammable).

=== Charcoal, from wood===
Charcoal is created at a {{l|wood furnace}} using one {{l|wood}} log by a {{l|dwarf}} with the {{l|Wood burner|Wood burning}} {{l|labor}} enabled. {{l|Skill|Skill levels}} in the {{l|Wood burner}} {{l|skill}} are not required but reduce the time required for this activity.

:* Required Building - {{l|Wood furnace}}
:* Required Labor enabled - {{l|Wood burning}}
:* Required Material - {{l|Wood}}

===Coke, from bituminous coal or lignite===
Coke is a type of refined coal, and is identical to charcoal for all game purposes. It is created at a {{l|smelter}} using one unit of fuel by a {{l|dwarf}} with the {{l|Furnace operating|Furnace Operating}} labor enabled. {{l|skill|Skill levels}} in the {{l|Furnace operator}} skill are not required but reduce the time required for this activity.

Coke can be created from {{l|bituminous coal}}, producing 3 coke (net gain of 2 fuel), or {{l|lignite}}, producing 2 coke (net gain of 1 fuel). Magma smelters do not require conventional fuel for this process, and so the net yield for each is effectively +1 greater.

:*Required Building - {{l|Smelter}} or {{l|Magma smelter}}
:*Required Labor enabled - {{l|Furnace operating}}
:*Required Material - {{l|Bituminous coal}} or {{l|lignite}}
:::::: - ''plus'' one unit of fuel per unit smelted, if at a conventional smelter

Bituminous coal {{l|block}}s and lignite blocks (sometimes offered by {{l|traders}}) can neither be used as fuel nor converted into fuel or back into stones in any way. They can only be used for standard block purposes -- though they are of course ''not'' {{L|fire-safe}}!

Because you need fuel in order to refine fuel, you will probably need to create at least one unit of charcoal at a Wood Burner first.

== Magma facilities ==
Magma replaces conventional fuel for {{l|magma smelter}}s, {{l|magma forge}}s, {{l|magma kiln}}s and {{l|magma glass furnace}}s. No fuel is needed, nor can it be used, for activities at these facilities. Note that you will still need charcoal or coke for smelting bars of {{l|pig iron}} and {{l|steel}}. (And see next section.)

== Pig iron and steel production ==
Note that when {{l|smelting}} {{l|pig iron}} or {{l|steel}} at any location, one unit of either charcoal or coke is required in the reaction (presumably as carbon). Again, there is no distinction - both charcoal and coke serve equally well in the production of {{l|bar}}s of either. An additional unit of fuel is needed to power the furnace at conventional (non-magma) smelters.

----
'''See Also:'''
:* {{l|Smelting}}
:* {{l|Fuel Industry}}
{{Category|Materials}}

v0.31:Weapon

2011-01-21T09:46:45Z

DeMatt: Undo revision 135177 by 24.85.247.169 (Talk): Archers bashing things with their crossbows use the Hammer skill.

{{quality|Exceptional|00:05, 23 November 2010 (UTC)}}{{av}}

"Weapon" can refer to either the manufactured weapons used by dwarves and other creatures for either {{l|combat}} or specific {{L|labor}}s, or natural weapons like fists, horns and {{L|syndrome|breath attacks}} used for creature-specific methods of combat.


=Manufactured weapons=
These weapons are constructed by dwarves or other intelligent races. There are many types of weapons, but not all may be manufactured in {{L|Dwarf fortress mode|Fortress Mode}}.

==Notes about manufactured weapons==

*If you find your dwarves wearing more than one weapon -- or any unwanted {{l|armor}}, for that matter -- one way to get rid of them is to dump the weapon from their {{k|v}}-{{k|i}} inventory screen. This does not always work, as they might re-equip the item. Another option is to remove any weapons and/or shields listed on their military equip screen. This too does not always work. At least "left-handedness" seems to not pose a problem. If you cancel the work by {{k|v}}-{{k|p}} and selecting a job that needs a tool they will sometimes put it back in the pile. Example: Miners use picks, cancel their mining job and they will put the pick away AFTER you ordered it to be dumped.
*Using weapons is much more effective than unarmed combat -- an untrained swordsdwarf with an {{l|iron}} weapon can defeat a grand master {{l|wrestler}}, provided neither is wearing armor.
**Larger weapons with more heft tend to do more damage. How damage is calculated is currently not fully understood, and this is an area requiring more research.
*Weapons and ammunition with the "foreign" attribute (item being rarer than Common in the entity file) must be either imported by either {{L|trade}}rs or {{L|invader}}s, or acquired from {{L|strange mood}}s.
*Weapons originating from strange moods can be made from almost any material: while it is never normally possible to manufacture a {{L|bone}} spear, for example, a fey {{L|bone carver}} may produce one from a single {{L|rainbow trout}} bone.
*Training weapons are all wooden, and all made at the {{L|Carpenter's workshop|carpenter's workshop}}. All training weapons can be constructed in dwarf fortress mode.
*Crossbows can be made of metal, wood, and bone. Metal crossbows are made by a {{L|weaponsmith}} at a {{L|forge}}, while wood and bone crossbows are made by a {{L|bowyer}} at a bowyer's workshop. The material of a crossbow does not affect its firing ability, only its melee damage. A dwarf's marksmanship skill is only affected by the core {{L|item quality|quality}} of the bow. This may be a consideration when deciding which dwarf you want outfitting your marksdwarves: a {{L|experience|legendary}} bowyer is a better choice than a proficient weaponsmith.

*The size for a weapon is its volume in cm3.
*Attacks of type EDGE will either slice or pierce their target, depending on the contact area and penetration depth, while BLUNT attacks tend to damage internal organs without necessarily causing significant damage to outer layers.
*The contact area represents the area of contact of the weapon, and the penetration determines how deep the attack goes (and is apparently ignored entirely for BLUNT attacks -- indicated by numbers in parentheses). Large contact areas combined with low penetration represent slashing attacks, while small contact areas with high penetration behave as piercing attacks.
*The velocity seems to adjust the amount of actual force used during the attack (otherwise based on the size of the weapon, the material from which the weapon is made, and the strength of the wielder) - for example, war hammers have a 2x velocity multiplier, presumably to model the fact that the hammer's mass is concentrated at the tip which, when combined with a long handle, permits swinging it harder than a weapon whose mass is evenly distributed (such as a sword).

===Weapons as tools===
{{l|hunter|Hunters}}, {{l|wood cutter|Woodcutters}} and {{l|miner|Miners}} use weapons for their {{l|labor|work}} and if need be will also {{l|combat|fight}} using them. Hunters seem to be limited to {{l|crossbow|crossbows}} while miners and woodcutters use {{l|pick|picks}} and {{l|battle axe|axes}} respectively.

==Dwarf-manufactured weapons==

{| class="wikitable" border="border"
! Type
! Size
! Attack
! {{L|Attack Type}}
! Contact Area
! Penetration
! Velocity
! Skill Used
! {{L|Weaponsmith|Metal}}
! {{L|Bowyer|Wood}}
! {{L|Bowyer|Bone}}
! {{L|Stone crafter|Obsidian}}
|- valign="top"
|rowspan="3"| Battle Axe
|rowspan="3"| 800
| Hack || Edge || 40000 || 6000 || 1.25x
|rowspan="3"| Axe
|rowspan="3"| Yes
|rowspan="3"| No
|rowspan="3"| No
|rowspan="3"| No
|-
| Flat slap || Blunt || 40000 || (6000) || 1.25x
|-
| Pommel strike || Blunt || 100 || (1000) || 1x
|-
| Crossbow (Melee)
| 400
| Bash || Blunt || 10000 || (4000) || 1.25x
| Hammer
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| No
|-
| Mace
| 800
| Bash || Blunt || 20 || (200) || 2.0x
| Mace
| Yes
| No
| No
| No
|-
| Pick
| 500
| Strike || Edge || 100 || 4000 || 2.0x
| Mining
| Yes
| No
| No
| No
|- valign="top"
|rowspan="4"| Short Sword
|rowspan="4"| 300
| Slash || Edge || 20000 || 4000 || 1.25x
|rowspan="4"| Sword
|rowspan="4"| Yes
|rowspan="4"| No
|rowspan="4"| No
|rowspan="4"| Yes
|-
| Stab || Edge || 50 || 2000 || 1.0x
|-
| Flat slap || Blunt || 20000 || (4000) || 1.25x
|-
| Pommel strike || Blunt || 100 || (1000) || 1.0x
|- valign="top"
|rowspan="2"| Spear
|rowspan="2"| 400
| Stab || Edge || 20 || 10000 || 1.0x
|rowspan="2"| Spear
|rowspan="2"| Yes
|rowspan="2"| No
|rowspan="2"| No
|rowspan="2"| No
|-
| Shaft bash || Blunt || 10000 || (6000) || 1.25x
|-
| War Hammer
| 400
| Bash || Blunt || 10 || (200) || 2.0x
| Hammer
| Yes
| No
| No
| No
|}

==Training Weapons==

All training weapons must be made of {{L|Wood|wood}} at the {{L|Carpenter's workshop|carpenter's workshop}}.

{| class="wikitable" border="border"
|-
! Type
! Size
! Attack
! {{L|Attack Type}}
! Contact Area
! Penetration
! Velocity
! Skill Used
|- valign="top"
|rowspan="3"| Training Axe
|rowspan="3"| 800
| Hack || Blunt || 30000 || (6000) || 1.25x
|rowspan="3"| Axe
|-
| Flat slap || Blunt || 30000 || (6000) || 1.25x
|-
| Pommel strike || Blunt || 100 || (1000) || 1.0x
|- valign="top"
|rowspan="4"| Training Sword
|rowspan="4"| 300
| Slash || Blunt || 20000 || (4000) || 1.25x
|rowspan="4"| Sword
|-
| Stab || Blunt || 50 || (2000) || 1.0x
|-
| Flat slap || Blunt || 20000 || (4000) || 1.25x
|-
| Pommel strike || Blunt || 100 || (1000) || 1.0x
|- valign="top"
|rowspan="2"| Training Spear
|rowspan="2"| 400
| Stab || Blunt || 200 || (10000) || 1.0x
|rowspan="2"| Spear
|-
| Shaft bash || Blunt || 10000 || (6000) || 1.25x
|}

==Foreign weapons==
In fortress mode, foreign weapons can only be constructed by a dwarf experiencing a {{L|Strange mood|strange mood}}, out of any material. They may also be acquired from other races through trade or looting. {{L|Elf|Elves}} construct these out of wood, while other races construct them out of metal. Many dwarf-made weapons can be made by foreign civilizations as well, the ''Used by'' column is in no way all the weapons that race can make.

{| class="wikitable" border="border"
|-
! Type
! Size
! Attack
! {{L|Attack Type}}
! Contact Area
! Penetration
! Velocity
! Skill Used
! Used by
|- valign="top"
|rowspan="4"| 2H Sword
|rowspan="4"| 900
| Slash || Edge || 100000 || 8000 || 1.25x
|rowspan="4"| Sword
|rowspan="4"| {{L|Goblin}}, {{L|Human}}
|-
| Stab || Edge || 50 || 4000 || 1.0x
|-
| Flat slap || Blunt || 100000 || (8000) || 1.25x
|-
| Pommel strike || Blunt || 100 || (1000) || 1.0x
|- valign="top"
| Blowgun (Melee)
| 150
| Bash || Blunt || 10000 || (4000) || 1.25x
| Sword
| Subterranean animal peoples
|- valign="top"
| Bow (Melee)
| 300
| Bash || Blunt || 10000 || (4000) || 1.25x
| Sword
| {{L|Elf}}, Goblin, Human, {{L|Kobold}}
|- valign="top"
| Flail
| 500
| Bash || Blunt || 200 || (4000) || 2.5x
| Mace
| Goblin, Human
|- valign="top"
|rowspan="3"| Great Axe
|rowspan="3"| 1300
| Hack || Edge || 60000 || 8000 || 1.25x
|rowspan="3"| Axe
|rowspan="3"| Goblin, Human
|-
| Flat slap || Blunt || 60000 || (8000) || 1.25x
|-
| Pommel strike || Blunt || 100 || (1000) || 1.0x
|- valign="top"
|rowspan="3"| Halberd
|rowspan="3"| 1200
| Slash || Edge || 20000 || 8000 || 1.25x
|rowspan="3"| Axe
|rowspan="3"| Goblin, Human
|-
| Stab || Edge || 50 || 2000 || 1.0x
|-
| Shaft bash || Blunt || 20000 || (6000) || 1.25x
|- valign="top"
|rowspan="3"| Dagger (Large)
|rowspan="3"| 200
| Slash || Edge || 1000 || 800 || 1.25x
|rowspan="3"| Dagger
|rowspan="3"| Goblin, Kobold
|-
| Stab || Edge || 5 || 1000 || 1.0x
|-
| Pommel strike || Blunt || 20 || (600) || 1.0x
|- valign="top"
|rowspan="4"| Long Sword
|rowspan="4"| 700
| Slash || Edge || 60000 || 6000 || 1.25x
|rowspan="4"| Sword
|rowspan="4"| Elf, Goblin, Human
|-
| Stab || Edge || 50 || 3000 || 1.0x
|-
| Flat slap || Blunt || 60000 || (6000) || 1.25x
|-
| Pommel strike || Blunt || 100 || (1000) || 1.0x
|- valign="top"
| Maul
| 1300
| Bash || Blunt || 100 || (6000) || 2.0x
| Hammer
| Goblin, Human
|- valign="top"
|rowspan="2"| Morningstar
|rowspan="2"| 500
| Bash || Edge || 10 || 500 || 2.0x
|rowspan="2"| Mace
|rowspan="2"| Goblin, Human
|-
| Pommel strike || Blunt || 50 || (1000) || 1.0x
|- valign="top"
|rowspan="2"| Pike
|rowspan="2"| 800
| Stab || Edge || 20 || 12000 || 1.0x
|rowspan="2"| Pike
|rowspan="2"| Goblin, Human
|-
| Shaft bash || Blunt || 10000 || (6000) || 1.25x
|- valign="top"
|rowspan="4"| Scimitar
|rowspan="4"| 300
| Slash || Edge || 20000 || 4000 || 1.25x
|rowspan="4"| Sword
|rowspan="4"| Goblin, Human
|-
| Stab || Edge || 50 || 2000 || 1.0x
|-
| Flat slap || Blunt || 20000 || (4000) || 1.25x
|-
| Pommel strike || Blunt || 50 || (1000) || 1.0x
|- valign="top"
| Scourge
| 300
| Lash || Edge || 10 || 50 || 2.0x
| Whip
| Goblin
|- valign="top"
| Whip
| 100
| Lash || Blunt || 1 || (10) || 5.0x
| Whip
| Goblin, Human
|}

==Arena Testing==

Testing of weapons (15 dwarfs vs 15 dwarfs combats) shows that, in v0.31.12, the best dwarven-made weapon against humanoids is the {{L|silver}} war hammer.
Even in 15x(steel armor+silver war hammer) versus 15x(adamantine armor+adamantine battle axe) matches, hammerdwarves won with less than 50% casualties (mostly one-strike kills). However, when the dwarves in question were without armor or only wearing leather/cloth, the result was inverted - axedwarves won with less than 50% casualties. In battles against megabeasts, 6 silver hammerdwarves were barely able to scratch a {{L|bronze colossus}} (attacks were glancing away) due to bronze being a better "weapon" material.

This is because silver has the highest solid density of all materials that can regularly be made into weapons by dwarves. Tests show that indeed {{L|gold}} and {{L|platinum}} (increasingly dense) do increasing amounts of damage, and that war hammers remain the tool of choice, however they can only be produced by a moody dwarf (and a very lucky one at that).

==Ammunition==

Ammunition is fired from ranged weapons like crossbows and blowguns, and is stored in ammunition {{L|stockpile}}s, sometimes in quivers. Ammunition may also refer to the {{L|stone}}s and {{L|ballista}} arrows fired from siege engines: For more information about these weapons, see the {{L|siege engine}} article.

===Notes about ammunition===

*Ammunition for foreign weapons like bows and blowguns is also considered foreign and cannot be manufactured in the fortress.

*All ammunition has the "EDGE" attack type.

===Ammunition table===

{| class="wikitable" border="border"
|-
! Type
! Size
! Contact Area
! Penetration
! Skill Used
! Craftable
! Used by
|-
| Bolt (Crossbow)
| 150
| 2
| 2000
| Crossbowman
| Yes ({{L|Weaponsmith|metal}}, {{L|Wood crafter|wood}}, {{L|Bone carver|bone}})
| {{L|Dwarf}}, {{L|Goblin}}, {{L|Human}}
|-
| Arrow (Bow)
| 150
| 2
| 2000
| Bowman
| No
| {{L|Elf}}, {{L|Goblin}}, {{L|Human}}, {{L|Kobold}}
|-
| Blowdart (Blowgun)
| 20
| 1
| 50
| Blowgunner
| No
|
|}

==Weapon-Dwarf Relationships==
Dwarves can become attached to a weapon, even a low quality weapon, which can make it difficult or impossible to get them to upgrade later.

In addition, the game tracks kills not only by entity but also by weapon. A weapon that has racked up enough kills might be named by its wielder. When this happens the game will pause and bring up a dialog box, similar to discovering a new cavern. Once named, the weapon will appear in the artifact list, albeit in blue.

=Natural weapons=

Natural weapons are incredibly varied, but may be divided into a few basic types. Every creature in the game has natural weapons of one sort or another. (Even if one mods the attacks out, the creature will '''push''' as an attack.) A short description of natural weapons and damage considerations follows.

==Types of natural weapons==

===Striking natural weapons===
Every creature has basic natural weapons, most commonly biting and kicking. Damage done by these weapons depends greatly on the respective size of the combatants and the strength and striking/kicking/biting skill of the attacker.

Natural weapons in this category can include but are not limited to punching with the '''fists''', biting with the '''teeth''', goring with the '''horns''', scratching with the '''nails''', and '''kicking'''.

===Other natural weapons===
The various {{L|syndrome}} delivery methods fall under this category, including breath weapons, poisonous blood, area dusting, venomous bites, and so on. With the exception of some breath weapons, these attacks do not rely on size for damage calculation. For more information, see the {{L|syndrome}} page. For specific information on breath weapons, see the {{L|Syndrome#Breath_attacks|breath attacks}} section of the syndrome page.

[[Category:Weapons]]

v0.31 Talk:Bridge

2011-01-18T06:51:49Z

DeMatt: Sectioning.

==Raised bridges make walls==
Do raised bridges still make walls in this version? My bridge raises into place but there is no "wall" there and enemies can stand where the wall should be. --[[User:Bporgn|Bporgn]] 03:12, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
:Yes. Of course, that only applies to non-'''retracting''' drawbridges. Retracting drawbridges effectively vanish. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 06:51, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

==Bridges and Titans==
I can verify that drawbridges still won't raise when a Titan is on them. {{version|31.01}} --[[User:Akhiros|Akhiros]] 07:47, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

==Working under bridges==
I just noticed the statement, "It is impossible to channel out stone that is directly under a raiseable bridge when its in the raised position." I don't think it is a bug, but an implementation choice. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 13:05, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
:The same thing happens with any other building or workshop - it just won't let you place the designation. If you try to ramp from underneath, the floor won't be removed simply because the building was present, whether the "building" was a bridge (even if raised or retracted), a workshop, or even a stockpile. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:57, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

==Bridges block liquids==
Does the "wall" created by raising a bridge block liquids? --[[User:Telarin|Telarin]] 19:00, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:Yes. I've used them before to seal elves into my depot before flooding it. --[[User:Kyle Solo|Kyle Solo]] 15:48, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

==Designating bridges along the map edge==
What do you mean by "a wall along the edge selected with the wadx keys when placing the bridge"?
I don't see any shortcuts when placing the bridge... are they just hidden or what? DF 31.10 [[User:Manslay|Manslay]] 07:27, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
:Wait, nevermind, BEFORE placing the bridge :/ [[User:Manslay|Manslay]] 07:29, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

== Heat Sensitivity ==
I have reason to believe that only the '''center''' tile of a bridge is sensitive to heat (when dealing with exposure to magma) - this is mostly based on the fact that if you use d-b-[whatever] to mass forbid/melt/dump/hide the components of a bridge, it only responds to the center tile which affects every single component. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:35, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
: What counts as the center tile if your bridge has an even number of tiles? (say, a 4x4 bridge)--[[User:Twilightdusk|Twilightdusk]] 04:06, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Bridge vs Building destroyer ==
I read that buildings cannot be destroyed from below. If this is still true, then a LOWERED bridge (or a locked hatch) is a destroyer immune barrier if you put it over a ramp entrance to your fort. Can anyone confirm? Also, it's still unclear to me from reading forums how building destroyers interact with raised bridges. From what I read they will path to it and get stuck, or (if the bridge was in the lowered position when the path was calculated (as in when you unlock the clowns)) then they will destroy the bridge. I've only started playing recently, and so I'm still working on testing this. Can anyone with a readily available fort test this? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Lightswitch|Lightswitch]]

Also, can the bridge be destroyed by a building destroyer when raised? --[[User:Telarin|Telarin]]
:I don't know, but if my current fort is any indication, building destroyers do not appear to destroy '''lowered''' drawbridges that block their path, such as one covering a set of ramps leading into one's fortress. I've got all 3 cavern levels sealed this way, and nothing has yet gotten inside, including several forgotten beasts. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:03, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
::this is because nothing creature, not even building destroyers, can destroy a building 1 z level above them. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:99.111.154.190|99.111.154.190]]

v0.31 Talk:Party

2011-01-17T23:50:06Z

DeMatt: /* "Any (dis)advantages of making friends?" */ Ehhh... some.

=="D for dwarf" section not funny==

The D for Dwarf section of the article does not say anything that has not already been said in the article, nor, imo, is it very funny. Should it be removed? --[[User:Calculator|Calculator]] 01:22, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
: I think it's a real chance for good dwarfy humour, after all, this is certainly something worth making fun of. Just let it be noted that anybody who thinks they can spruce up the D for Dwarf paragraph into something legitimately humourous is welcome to make their addition. [[User:J|J]] 21:39, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

=="Any (dis)advantages of making friends?"==

Are there any? A dwarf will make an unhappy thought if a friend of his dies. Maybe enough to cause havoc. On other hand, can making friends improve the chances of new babies? --[[User:Trepach|Trepach]] 02:48, 08 Dec 2010 (UTC)

This is a good question, I don't even think my dwarves are liable to become unhappy in the first place if it weren't for making friends at parties, is there even a good reason to create meeting halls? Even with only small amounts of partying, even one person dying can easily mean a tantrum spiral in my 100 population fort. --[[User:Bporgn|Bporgn]] 23:28, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
:It depends on your circumstances. "Made a friend recently" and "talked with a friend recently" are both good, if minor, thoughts. They're useful for offsetting a low-grade bad thought, like "tired of the same old food/booze" or "accosted by terrible vermin". So if your fort is running smoothly enough that minor complaints like that don't arise, but you tend to lose a dwarf to ambushes/sieges every so often, then avoiding friendmaking is a good thing. On the other hand, if you're new and have INVADERS:NO, or you button up to ride out sieges without casualties, then friendships might keep your dwarves from going nuts over the endless diet of plump helmets. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 23:50, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Cloth

2011-01-17T23:38:32Z

DeMatt: /* Picky clothesmaker? */ Probably not a bug.

Why does this page link to thread when thread redirects back to cloth? Seems redundant when there isn't a real article on thread. --[[User:AzureShadow|AzureShadow]] 22:19, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
==Picky clothesmaker?==
My clothesmaker will not make anything out of rope reed cloth (Baron cancels construct bag or whatever, needs 10000 plant cloth), but there are a ton of available rope reed cloths(not dumped, forbidden or owned), and he has no problem making stuff from pig tail cloth and silks. It might be because he's a Baron, but he performs his other job assignments without trouble at all. Bug?--[[Special:Contributions/71.111.184.175|71.111.184.175]] 23:45, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:Is he '''preferring''' to use pig tail cloth, or is he '''refusing''' to use rope reed cloth? What happens if you forbid all your pig tail cloth and order something made? Because if that causes him to use rope reed cloth, then it's preference or distance, and not a bug. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 23:38, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

User talk:Quietust

2011-01-04T19:38:17Z

DeMatt: /* Bot Requests */ Disruptive user.

{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center" style="background-color:#ead"
|-
!Instructions for a Pleasant Talk Experience
|-
|In the interest of keeping discussions in one place:
*If I posted a note on ''your'' talk page with a question or a comment, please post your response on ''your'' talk page. It's easier to keep track of a discussion when it's all in the same place.
*If you wish to post a comment on ''my'' talk page, add it to the ''top'' of the [[#Comments|Comments]] section and begin it with a level 3 header (i.e. "===Subject===", 3 equals signs). As with above, I will keep my replies here on this page.
*If you would like [[User:QuietBot|QuietBot]] to perform a bunch of predictable edits, add a comment to the ''top'' of the [[#Bot Requests|Bot Requests]] section and begin it with a level 3 header. As with normal comments, replies will also be posted solely on ''my'' talk page.
|}

==Comments==
:Please place new comments at the ''top'' of this section. If you are replying to a message I placed on your user talk page, please place the reply on ''your'' talk page and place your signature in the "[[#Reply Notification|Reply Notification]]" section above. To add a comment, simply [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Quietust&action=edit&section=2 edit this section] and add a new subsection (with ''three'' equals signs around the title).
=== Magmawiki Feature Idea ===
Looking for your input on this [http://www.magmawiki.com/wiki/article_versions feature]. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 01:25, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

=== Regex Stuff ===
When Loc is back online later tonight we should be able to fix it. I'm pretty sure the regex problem is the same extension problem we had when the wiki blew up massively several months ago -- basically php version specific. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 01:11, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
:Loc assumed the same thing, since he apparently set up this server with PHP 5.3; presumably, it was previously running version 5.2. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:26, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
::He did this exact same thing last time. -_- [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 01:50, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Indeed, this is my hunch, I'll be working on this tomorrow once I get a chance to sleep. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 07:55, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

=== Forum PMs ===
Have you checked your [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=pm Bay 12 Forums personal messages] recently? --[[User:Footkerchief|Footkerchief]] 14:21, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:I have. I just haven't yet decided how to respond. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:02, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

=== Windmills ===
It may be a bug, but in my experience, it does work reliably. Build the windmill first, and the receiving device second, and it'll be powered. Doesn't matter if the receiving device hooks up to something else built previously, doesn't matter if the whole assemblage demands more power than the windmill can give. If the windmill is built before whatever it's expected to link to, then it'll link in through a floor. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 20:57, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:The fact still stands that it's inconsistent, and I've just added an entry to the bug tracker specifically about said inconsistency. We shall see whether it's actually supposed to be possible for windmills to transmit power through floor tiles. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:22, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

=== Barony? ===
I see you are logged on or at least recently so. Can you quick explain why I should accept becoming a Barony? I just don't see an advantage. I posted the question on [[Talk:Baron]]. Thanks for your help! -- [[User:Maunder|Maunder]] 02:30, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

=== Arsenal Dwarf ===

I have 0.31.14 for the Mac, it's the only version I've ever had, and I have the Arsenal Dwarf. I don't see how I have "a world that was generated in an old version" unless there is something specific to the Mac version because I've never had an old version. Granted I'm not actually able to figure out what the AD is doing, but it's there.--[[Special:Contributions/74.73.27.227|74.73.27.227]] 01:38, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
:I've just extracted entity_default.txt from df_31_14_win_s.zip, and the arsenal dwarf is very much absent from the list of positions. I've also checked the same file within df_31_14_osx.tar.bz2 and it's also not there. You're using a savegame from an older version. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:55, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

=== Javascript ===

We have to resubmit all .js and .css pages. Otherwise they won't work their way into the cache. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 23:15, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Quality Tags ===

Are you sure? ;D [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 23:17, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
:Stealth fixes are hardly sporting... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:18, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
::<3 Also, why don't you hang out in #magmawiki on freenode? Seeing as you're the most wiki-active admin, you might want to get in on magmawiki discussions. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 23:20, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Mainly because I don't really do IRC very much anymore. If there are particular discussions that are expected to take place, I could certainly attend them, schedule permitting. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:23, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
::::We don't really have scheduled discussions. They just sort of happen, and sometimes with hours between responses on each side. So you'd sort of have to idle in order to "attend" them. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 23:25, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Three random things ===

(1) Looking through recent changes I thought you'd made a mistake or something, cos [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=DF2010:Cave-in&curid=10494&diff=127284&oldid=127282 this] edit had a detailed edit summary but didn't change the page size. Turned out that, by fluke, you'd removed exactly as many characters as you'd added.

(2) I left you a message in [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=65154.0 this] thread. Not meaning to hassle, just wasn't sure if you'd seen it.

(3) When I look at a page like {{L|cow}} I always want to know how much food you get from butchering. Based on the information in the infobox you can get 33-37 food per cow, but it takes a while to add everything up, and even longer to compare two animals (cow vs. horse or whatever). I was wondering, would it be possible to edit {{L|Template:CreatureInfo v0.31}} to give it a new line, called "total edible" or whatever, that would automatically sum all the edible components? I realise it could be done manually for each creature article, but I thought you might be able to figure out a more elegant way.

[[User:Bognor|Bognor]] 13:28, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

:Thinking more about (3), it looks like some of the info currently in those templates is dodgy. Doubtful that horses would yield 32 food while dogs yield 37. [[User:Bognor|Bognor]] 13:50, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

=== Talkback ===

=== Adminship ===
I think the wiki could be greatly served if you nominate yourself for [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Request_for_Adminship|adminship]]. I was frankly surprised you weren't an admin already. Particularly you being able to just go ahead and complete non-controversial deletes would be really useful I think, not to mention applying blocks to blatant and flagrant vandals. Let me know if you put yourself up there for a vote. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 03:09, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:Maybe I come from a different background, but it's my view that adminship is something that needs to be ''offered'' by another admin who thinks it's deserved, and never directly requested - in fact, most other sites I've been to work exactly this way. That said, I can't nominate ''myself'', but I wouldn't have a problem with being nominated by someone else who would have the authority to do so. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
::My personal view on it is that it isn't as much as leadership position as it is a janitor position with some special powers and certain people who already take on the jobs of janitors (such as yourself) could use the tools like you'd use a better mop. I was the first person to nominate themselves and now we have several who have done so. The link I had above was broken, I've fixed it, take a look at it. Anyone can nominate themselves, no authority needed. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 05:06, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
:::Psst. No need. This wiki is much to slow to have an effective rfa process. So uhh, you're an admin now. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 18:39, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
:::: Hurray! Cheers for becoming an Admin and thanks again for your tons of contributions.--[[User:Used|Used]] 09:15, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

=== Talk page for Goblinite ===
:I don't have permission to create the discussion page for Goblinite. You recently undid my question on the subject (without answering it, I might add) so could you please create a talk page for Goblinite so I can ask my question there.--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 19:41, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

=== Regarding Spam Bots ===
Just leave a message on my talk page if you come across some that aren't being dealt with in terms of ban hammering. I always check the wiki for messages once a day, but sometimes things get buried in recent changes before I see them. So uhh yeah! [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 10:29, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

===Biome Table===
I like to thank you for your work on the biome table, it's a lot better now. I'm trying to make the whole biome stuff a bit clearer. Ah, and also thanks for fixing some of the typos, my mother tongue is german but I try to do my best in english ;).

Greetings and keep up the great work here in the wiki. [[User:Used|Used]] 15:58, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

===Gamedata===
You. rock. Holy. crap. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:33, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

:The tiny column of raws is unusable. I think we're better off not having it in the same place as the creature box. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:29, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
::I could've told you that myself. In fact, so could [[User:Used]], who tried widening the new gamedata box a bit over a week ago only to be overruled by Briess when it messed up the creature pages. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:05, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

:Here's an idea:
:Let's stick the raw lookup template for the individual creatures and such on their /raw page and pull that using the gamedata template on the main page. Thoughts? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:45, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
::An interesting idea, and one that would probably be easy enough to automate. It would also make the name->ID and name->raw_file.txt lookup tables unnecessary, since the /raw pages could just be made to contain something like <nowiki>{{raw2:DF2010:creature_standard.txt|CREATURE|DWARF}}</nowiki>. However, it'll also result in a ton of tiny pages to maintain, especially those that use DF2010:creature_standard.txt which had been split into 3 parts to stop it from crashing PCRE. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:55, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

:::Then it will probably be easier to deal with if you keep the lookup template active. That way if a file needs to be split again then only the lookup changes. You think you could make your bot stick the appropriate things on the raw pages? Also, maybe lump them into a raw file category. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:47, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
::::Clearly, the "file" lookup should be kept; however, I figure the "id" lookup could probably be dropped since there's no reason they would ever need to change (and the only reason I added them was because I was looking up the raws based on the page name). See [[DF2010:Beetle/raw]] for a sample data page using both templates - dropping down to just the one lookup will change it as follows and necessitate changing the "file lookup" template to translate from raw ID to filename rather than general name to filename. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:41, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
:<nowiki>{{#ifexist:{{DF2010:Creature file lookup|beetle}}|{{#tag:nowiki|{{raw2|{{DF2010:Creature file lookup|beetle}}|CREATURE|{{DF2010:Creature id lookup|beetle}}}}}}|Unable to locate raws!}}</nowiki>
:<nowiki>{{#ifexist:{{DF2010:Creature file lookup|BEETLE}}|{{#tag:nowiki|{{raw2|{{DF2010:Creature file lookup|BEETLE}}|CREATURE|BEETLE}}}}|Unable to locate raws!}}</nowiki>
::::Also, I'd prefer to get some sort of consensus before continuing that we really want to create all of these /raw subpages. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:55, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::The process of creating these /raw subpages started quite a while back, and has continued in a haphazard way since. The only difference is yours automatically updates itself. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:05, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::My concern is that the templates I've written effectively make the /raw pages completely unnecessary, hence my wanting to make sure we still want to go in the direction of using the /raw pages at all. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:27, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Your templates make it easy to put a raw in the box, but for the really wide raw entries that cause scrolling, seeing it on a page is easier to use. So a slight adaptation of what you have enables both. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:29, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Fair enough. That aside, which of the above should I use? Lookup both the object ID and raw file from the creature name hardcoded into the page, or lookup just the raw file from the object ID hardcoded into the page (dropping "Creature id lookup" and rewriting "Creature file lookup")? Should that code go directly in the /raw pages, or should we put it into {{tl|creature raw}} instead (which has now gone unused)? Also, feel free to mess around with the <nowiki><noinclude>'d</nowiki> formatting on [[DF2010:Beetle/raw]] (possibly put it inside another template or two - 'begin' and 'end', perhaps - in case we want to change it in the future) - given the number of /raw pages this will create (just short of 700), I'd prefer to get them right the first time. I've already got the bot script itself written, and it'll just be a matter of changing the line where it assembles the page contents. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 12:55, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::::I think we should stick as little on the page as possible. If each page is just a template or two with simple parameters, switching things out later will be easy. I'm imagining something like this:
<nowiki>{{creaturesomething|creature}}<noinclude>{{creaturerawcat|creature}}</noinclude></nowiki>
:::::::where ''creature'' is either the name or the id. I think id is better since that reduces the total amount of plumbing we need to have, and the it's less likely to be changed in the future since objects in DF refer to each other by id. Then on template:creaturesomething we can stick all the formatting and a call to {{t|creature raw}}, which we can make a straightforward raw-delivery function (which is useful elsewhere; eg: {{t|creatureInfo}}). Template:creaturerawcat can contain <nowiki>{{category|raw pages}}</nowiki> for now, but maybe later we'll want to rename the category or put a more complex hierarchy there. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:48, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::::If we include any formatting in template:creaturesomething itself, then that formatting will just appear as plain text in the "Raws" box at the bottom of the creature page, and we don't want that, hence putting it inside templates and transcluding it inside <nowiki><noinclude></noinclude></nowiki> tags before and after the actual data. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:57, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Take a look now [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:18, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Well, I think I like the header and footer system more anyway. That way only the actual raw text is transcluded from the raw page. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]]
:::::::You should pass the creature id parameter into the header and footer as well. It will keep our options open [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:44, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::::It is done. I also figured it might be useful to also pass the object type (lowercase with spaces) as another parameter. Now all that remains is to readd {{tl|gamedata}} to every creature/plant page. Oh, and probably go back and create stub pages for all of the vermin fish (since they also got /raw pages) rather than just redirecting them to [[Fish]]. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:31, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

===Good idea===
[[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:19, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
:Also, dealing with metals should be feasible now :) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:23, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
:Well, maybe not.. the way the alloy templates are set up will make it nasty. Do you think anyone will mind if they're scrapped? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:29, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

=== Bituminous coal ===

Oops. Not sure how that came about Oo [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:34, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

===Raws===
I set the query for random page to prevent finding pages with /raw in the title ( NOT LIKE '%/raw') for now, and once we have the handy dandy fancy raw extractor stuff, we'll use that. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 12:59, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
:P.S. thanks for letting me know about that potential problem ;) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 13:00, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

===Template:23a Metal===
I was just curious about this new template. Is there a particular reason that a new template was necessary? I had thought that the regular Template:Metal was fully version-independent, but I could be wrong. I'm just interested in helping make templates as reusable as possible.
--[[User:Soy|Soy]]([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]]) 15:29, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
:Metals in 0.23.130.23a don't necessarily use the same foreground color for bars and for background-colored furniture - for example, copper bars are brown and produce brown furniture, but copper barrels are '''red''' with a brown background, while bronze is yellow and a bronze barrel is yellow with a brown background. I was also trying to replicate the original infobox template used on the old wiki, since it depicted the source materials as ores rather than metal bars (and in the 2D version, you could '''only''' make alloys from ores, never bars). There's also the fact that the newer templates unconditionally include Construction as an option, and constructions did not exist back in 23a. The {{tl|23a Ore}} template was made for a similar reason - the current one doesn't handle the unmined tile and the mined stone being different colors (even in current versions, only a few stones actually behave that way, and none of them are ores), and there was no such thing as an economic stone back then (so it was completely impossible to use ores for masonry or stonecrafting). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:50, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
::Thanks for the response. I guess it just irritates me on some fundamental level that all of the templates can't be re-used across all of the version namespaces, but it does not seem like it would be worth the time investment in this case to make the changes. It must be the latent programmer coming out in me. At least it seems like the majority of the templates will work OK between the new version and 40d. One tiny suggention I would make though, you may want to add <nowiki>{{Category|Metals}} and {{Category|Ore}}</nowiki> respectively to those two templates, so the pages get filed appropriately. :) --[[User:Soy|Soy]]([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]]) 18:14, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
:::It's one thing to have forward compatibility, but given the huge amount of changes between the 2D and 3D versions it's not surprising that some of the current templates don't work with the old stuff. Also, by "those two templates", should I assume that you meant {{tl|Metal}} and {{tl|Ore}} as well as {{tl|23a Metal}} and {{tl|23a Ore}}? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:24, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Ugh, my apologies, apparently I was ''assuming'' that the [[Template:Metal|Metal]] and [[Template:Ore|Ore]] templates already had category tags in them. Instead I just looked and it seems like the category tags were manually placed on each individual page. Sorry about that. Having the tags added by the template saves a lot of editing in my opinion, but it's up to you how you want to handle it. I'll work on prying my foot out of my mouth. --[[User:Soy|Soy]]([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]]) 18:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::There's also the minor annoyance that including the {{tl|Category}} tag in the template itself also causes the template to be categorized if it transcludes itself as an example, which isn't what we want. If we know that the {{tl|Category}} template will never be used to categorize templates, it would be easy enough to just place a check inside the template itself to check if the namespace is "Template" and simply omit the category tag entirely. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:48, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::That funcionality is already built into [[Template:Category]], with room for expansion should you want to use it to categorize other types of pages. Just a simple #switch on the page namespace. --[[User:Soy|Soy]]([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]]) 19:24, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Actually, no it isn't - while the template can change '''which''' category gets included, it does not prevent a category tag from being added at all. This would be easy enough to fix - just wrap the outer Category tag with <nowiki>{{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}:Template||...}}</nowiki>. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:27, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying. If I understand correctly, isn't this the same issue you encounter when inlcuding a normal category tag in a template? Like you said, it shouldn't be a big issue to correct, although I have noticed that Mediawiki doesn't always resolve the markup language in the order that I expect it to. I suppose it could also be fixed on each template that transcludes it, but that defeats the purpose. --[[User:Soy|Soy]]([[User_talk:Soy|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Soy|C]]) 19:49, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

===bar vs bars===

It doesn't matter that they're called "bars" in game, since the style guide dictates singular forms
Yes, as the correct game term it does matter, and no, the style guide doesn't "dictate" that. It specifically says ''"Exceptions are proper nouns and terms that are always plural"'' - and there is no metal "bar" in the game. And now is the time to change it - just because it was wrong before, doesn't mean it should stay wrong. It is the same as "plate armor" was in 40d - one term referring to more than one item. However, I don't want to get into an edit war, and will leave it. I disagree, tho' - both "bar" and "bars" are metal, and anything else is either, ''specifically'', "vertical bars" or "floor bars".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

===40d:obsidian===

I'm pretty sure you meant to be looking at the DF2010 version of this article
<facepalm> Clearly, time to have a beer and get afk for a while. Thnx!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:44, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

===speciality===
is british english, specialty american english. IIRC, both can be used on the wiki unless it's explicitly a game term. ;)

===Non-Newtonian Fluids===

To further expound on my edit comments: 

For a fluid to be non-Newtonian, one of three things must be true: 

1. The shear stress of the fluid is non-linear when graphed against shear rate. (i.e. the fluid gets thicker/thinner depending on how quickly force is applied) 
OR 
2. The shear stress of the fluid is non-linear when graphed against time at a constant shear rate. (i.e. the fluid gets thicker/thinner depending on how long a constant force is applied) 
OR 
3. The fluid has non-zero shear stress when the shear rate is zero. (i.e. you have to exert force on the liquid to get it to start flowing, though it may continue flowing normally thereafter) 

Magma definitely qualifies, because it's technically a suspension (i.e. a mixture of solids and liquid), rather than a pure liquid. And suspensions are always non-Newtonian. 

All the best.

===Gamedata===

How would you feel about a version of [[template:gamedata]] that pulled information from raw files? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:58, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:Would certainly be interesting, though I can't help but be concerned that this might put a lot of additional load on the wiki. Then again, it seems to be handling the stuff for stones just fine. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:56, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
::Apparently it's negligible. I was worried about that possibility too but have been reassured otherwise. Supporting previous versions shouldn't be difficult from the place we're at now. It may even just be a matter of passing the right things to the templates. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:44, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

===Namespace Searches===
It was set to work properly for new users about a month ago; however, user settings take precedence over system level settings. You might want to check them; if you think it's a problem, though, I can go through and modify everyone's settings globally with a script (but this overwrites all search settings) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:56, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
:Oh yeah, forgot about that. They were indeed set to exclude those namespaces, but no longer. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:58, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

===Alluvial is not soil===

Blaugh, my bad. Read it elsewhere a while back and assumed it was accurate. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 18:39, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

===Slade / Demonic fortresses===

A note on your removal of the 'digging into demonic fortress from underneath' bit - going from this quote on the Slade page ("Slade walls cannot be dug into. However, slade floors can.") it's presumably possible to do this by digging a down-stair into the bottom floor of the fortress. As I haven't found one myself nor did I add the original info I can't confirm, but it made sense to me when I first read it. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 14:05, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:However, the bottom floor of the demonic fortress tends to have solid slade walls beneath it, so there'd be nothing to dig into. It's possible that it could have empty space underneath it, given sufficient randomness, though the fact that it's possible to channel through slade floors (but NOT through the walls underneath them) is probably a bug in and of itself. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:36, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
::Good stuff, didn't know about the full walls underneath. Glad I ran it by you before just trying to pop it back in or something. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 18:38, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

===Code stuff===
Not necessarily. I haven't really had a chance to look at the code yet (I've been busy all week until now), so I'm going to take a look and see how and if we should integrate that into our codebase. My primary concern is ease of continuing upgrades for mediawiki, but if it's simple enough, it shouldn't be a problem. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
===Fun -> #REDIRECT [[cv:Fun]]===
Seems this is going back and forth - see [[Talk:Fun]]--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:39, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
:Fair enough - I'll leave it alone. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 02:30, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

===Bot Programming===
What language is your bot using? Because if it's a language I know (which it probably is, because I know a lot of languages) I could definitely help you write code for changing all the links properly. Even though it might be more short term work, I think it's a better overall outcome than having modded files. Modded files make upgrading the software harder, etc... aside from the issue I mentioned about people assuming the links work one way from prior experience. Also, I just stole Wikipedia's Talkback template, [[Template:talkback]] something I think you'll like. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:29, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
:Just noticed the links up top, and thus why a bot to redo all the links might be tricky. I'll just go ahead and write a python bot to do it. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
===Magma temp===
Sorry, it was from a forum post. I realise my mistake now, but I'm too embarrassed to undo it. Could you please fix it?
--[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 03:52, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
===Archive===
I do not have a db dump from that time. Do you still want the namespace, though? --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 00:55, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
:Sure - it'll just require some manual re-entry (which will be slightly annoying due to the fact that anonymous edits were disabled, so archive.org didn't manage to archive the "Edit" pages which would've contained the source markup). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:46, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

===Tilesets===
Oops. Sorry about that. I think I accidentally edited an old revision. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:50, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

===Workshop Pictures===
Heh, I was ''hoping'' I could bait you into creating the rest of the picture templates. :) Sorry about the +'s-- I forgot I had built those on smoothed tiles. --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 04:49, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

===chevron/caret===
chevron is << or >>; ^ is a caret
This is minor, but wanted to bounce it off you. A "caret" is, ''specifically and solely'', an editor's mark - it refers to a specific shorthand usage (inserting an edit) and not a shape, and I doubt if the majority of readers would be at all familiar with that term anyway. A "chevron" is either "^" or "v" - a sergeant's stripes are "chevrons". (Not sure where you get your horizontal form from.) I think "chevron" is a more generally recognizable, and thus more useful term, neh?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:21, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
:I'm just going by Wikipedia's definitions of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caret caret] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron chevron]. In particular, chevrons most often point ''down'' rather than up. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:42, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
::I would never use a Wiki as an authoritative dictionary, unless I wanted something more vernacular/modern, and then I'd go to [http://www.urbandictionary.com/ urban dictionary.com]. It's a function of that (amateur) editor that emphasizes one definition (or orientation) over another. Soldiers' stripes are "chevrons", and they can point up or down (country/era dependent), and the majority of heraldic uses are "up". [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chevron merriam-webster online dictinary: "chevron"] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron_%28insignia%29 http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/caret (read again - "caret" is context specific. Also, how many DF uses would know the technical ASCII name?) I'm going to change that one word back.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:42, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

===Decorations===
Care to explain how I made this?

[[Image:Irongauntlet.png]]

No, I don't use any mods. --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 13:43, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
:I guess I stand corrected, then. It would seem that bone and shell decorations can go on anything. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:48, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

===Defense Design===
Thank you for cleaning up the [[defense design]] diagrams. They're so much more readable now! Especially the ballista battery. --[[User:HebaruSan|HebaruSan]] 00:55, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

===Formatting===
Thanks for the help with the page format. I couldn't get that link to display properly with one set of brackets because of the | I was using between the link and name, thanks to you I don't have to choose between one unmatched bracket or an undesired pair now.--[[User:The Architect|The Architect]] 16:59, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

===booze hauling===
Hm, is anon editing working? Anyway, I can't log in at work. Need to confirm booze hauling behavior, as I don't think it's automatic. Drinking may be a bit strange. One time I dumped a barrel right as a dwarf was running over to it to take a drink. The dumper beat him to it, and hauled the barrel off to the garbage dump. Urist McThirsty followed him all the way to the dump and chugged out of the barrel as soon as it was dropped (even though the barrel was auto-forbidden), then went on his merry way, leaving the barrel there. It's possible the forbidden status canceled an auto-haul. It's also possible that hauling is assigned to the nearest idle dwarf, and a guy that just finished drinking is momentarily "idle" and also closest. They ''do'' tend to flash "idle" for a moment before and after breaks, eating, and drinking. -[[Special:Contributions/24.154.179.50|24.154.179.50]] 14:58, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
:The bit about booze being automatically hauled to a stockpile was based on the observation of soldiers, guards, and nobles carrying a booze barrel while performing the job "Store Item in Stockpile", something they would normally never do. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:05, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
::(that was me) Ah, works for me then. -[[User:Arrkhal|Arrkhal]] 20:19, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

===statues===
Why would it only be more efficient with [[copper]], [[silver]], [[gold]], [[platinum]], and [[aluminum]] ? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 19:54, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
: Most of the other metal are alloy I presume, so impossible to use the raw stone. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 20:20, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
::No, that would be "possible", not "more efficient". Q is thinking that it's because the value is the same, for both ore/alloy and metal. He's not exactly right, because copper can be made into several alloys that ''would'' improve it, and other metal ores ''rely'' on becoming alloys - if you're not going to make [[nickel silver]], then [[garnierite]] falls into that category too. But for the other 4, there is no possible value advantage to smelting into bars first, and then using ''three'' bars to make statues that are worth exactly the same as the one from 1 ore. (Unless your Blacksmith is considerably more skilled than your Mason, which is a stretch to begin with.) Probably should change that to something a bit less absolute.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:46, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
:::Yeah, that's what I meant - there's no point in ever making a statue out of copper/silver/gold/platinum/aluminum bars when you can make it out of the native stone instead (which, in those cases, has the same value). Most metal ores are worth less than the metals themselves, though for the really cheap ones (like copper, nickel, tin, lead, and zinc) you'd be better off making the statue out of flux. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:08, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

===salt water===
the above paragraph already explains how to verify whether or not it is drinkable)
Yes, but it doesn't emphasize the need to not assume you did it correctly. That line was not a redundant "how to", but "make sure you do". The whole issue of a well that was non-drinkable (which worries me as well, re your recent edit) was that the player did not pay close attention.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:03, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
*I've readded a statement to basically advise double-checking, though my own testing revealed that a built well works fine for thirsty dwarves, whether from a murky pool or right at the shore itself. It's possible that it's the Z-level of the well that determines whether or not it works - placing a well in an underground cistern might not work as well as one placed on the surface... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:03, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

===Alluvial vs soil===
Good find. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:36, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

===crop table===
I didn't redesign the table. I brought back a previous design since the recent one was too obscure. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:04, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

===no soap?===
Soap needs an alchemist's lab, which needs 3 glass flasks - Are those ''ever'' available from caravans? I thought "No, so no sand = no flasks = no lab = no soap" - no? Never spec needed glass flasks from caravans, so dunno.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:51, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
*It's fairly well known that you cannot request glass or sand from caravans, so yep - no sand == no soap. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:35, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

===Aluminum===
Holy crap! That aluminum=platinum is huge! I had been playing all this time just assuming that aluminum was cheap (since it is in the real world.) Is there any way we can make this bigger? Noobs need to know about this. --[[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 13:39, 24 August 2009

===Purple Materials===
Wonderful, *now* I found out there's a second purple stone after having already made a giant rose gold tomb... I guess I should of looked closer first, man was that a waste of gold. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 01:07, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
*To be fair, you can usually find gold nuggets in much larger quantities than bismuthinite (since the latter only occurs in small clusters)... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:03, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
::Yeah, but I had such better uses for it, like making coins. Yes, we definitely needed more coins. But I know I had found far more bismuthinite on that map than I had gold, then again, I was turning the bismuthinite into bismuth bronze, so I wasn't going to give that up any time soon either. Honestly I should of just not made a giant purple tomb. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 04:43, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

===Actual character===
Quietust (Talk | contribs) (actual character)
Actually, there is no single "actual character" for a bottomless pit - there are two "default" sets of icons for vanilla DF, the ascii and the included tile set. The character I get is like a very thick capital O, but a little boxy. It's certainly not a "o". --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:50, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

==Bot Requests==
:If you would like to have a large number of page edits performed by [[User:QuietBot|QuietBot]], then add a note here.
===Disruptive User===
Can you do a global undo of all of [[User:Gzalzi]]'s "fixes" of multi-redirects? He's screwing up the article logic. Too much Wikipedia and not enough Dwarf Fortress, I think. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 19:38, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

===Renaming quality ratings===
If (when) the quality ratings are renamed, could you have quietbot fix them? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:52, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
:Certainly. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:54, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

===Fixing Cv: alias redirects===
How easy with your bot is it to make sure all mainspace pages that redirect to a cv: page redirect to the same page as their name? Ex: if page Cheese redirected to cv:Cheese Maker, having the bot change it to cv:Cheese. My python bot seems to have trouble processing redirect pages on this wiki. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 06:10, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
*That should be fairly straightforward (for each page, open "pagename" for editing, check for string "#REDIRECT" and abort if absent, check for string "[[cv:" and abort if absent, check for string "<nowiki>[[cv:pagename]]</nowiki>" and abort if present, then replace page contents with "#REDIRECT <nowiki>[[cv:pagename]]</nowiki>" and save). However, doing that will introduce a whole ton of double redirects which might cause other problems. If that's what we really want to do, then it shouldn't take me long to assemble a script and run it. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 12:41, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
::That's what we want to do. It'll break some redirects (because not every page exists like it should), but broken redirects are a lot easier than red links. And yes, it will introduce double redirects, that's the point. Double redirects work just fine on this wiki (Briess changed the wgMaxRedirect variable) and will save us a ton of trouble. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 18:19, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
:::I think I should also be figuring out why my bot doesn't like certain redirects. Because we also need to go through redirect chains and make sure that the talk pages follow the same chain as their respective normal pages. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 19:15, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
::::I'll have it running as soon as I finish changing the "40d Talk" redirects to "CV Talk" as per the task immediately below this one. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:33, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::Done. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:17, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

===Mainspace 40d redirects===
Could you have the bot take all the mainspace 40d redirects and change them to cv: instead of 40d:. Effectively the redirects will remain the same, but this way we're prepared for when the new version's namespace takes over as the current version. Thanks. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 19:52, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
:It is done. Only redirects within the main article namespace have been updated (e.g. ones within 40d itself continue to point to 40d), and talk page redirects have been omitted. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:32, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
::Oh I forgot to mention Cv_talk exists too. So that should probably happen too. Thanks! [[User:Emi|Emi]] 23:41, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
:::This one should be done now. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:51, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

===Broken Redirects===
Request: could you go through the pages on [[:Special:BrokenRedirects]] and for each page, blank the page, then restore it? That will fix the linking engine (it's trying to link to the pages in the main namespace instead of the appropriate namespace, breaking and re-adding the link forces the parser to reevaluate) --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:41, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
:It's in progress and about halfway done. For now, I'm only having it handle redirects that point to the 40d namespace - I'll handle the rest of them in a second pass. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:55, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
::All done - the Broken Redirects count is now down to 79, all of which are '''real''' broken redirects. However, the double redirects page has now grown to 1666 entries, and fixing those won't be quite as easy - it might be feasible to have a script just follow the redirects manually until it finds a real page. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:16, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

===Misc===
:Please do so. All of my script utilities and several attempts at dropping to the SQL layer have failed to move all the pages, so I've been manually moving the broken talk page to the correct page, then deleting the broken version. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:32, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
::List of still broken pages: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=x8msEevZ --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:32, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
:::I'll try to add your bot to a bot usergroup. There doesn't seem to be a way to disable redirect on login, though, from my cursory glance. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:53, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
::::Wait, you play KoL? ++rep. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:54, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::YAY \o/ --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 21:59, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm sifting through the database now and cleaning out the cruft. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:22, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::That's an artifact of the caching, the job cache is completely empty at the moment. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:29, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Q - help me out. [[40d Talk:Armor piece]] - where is that page now? And if it doesn't belong under the "new" page, then where? Archived under T:AP? I understand the premise of this migration, but not the mechanics. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:49, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
:I moved it back to its "broken" title so it can be fixed by hand afterwards. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:51, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

:Thanks for teaching me something today :) --[[User:Speed112|Speed112]] 00:51, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

=== Outpost Liasion ===
Does he require a room at some point or is the table pointless information?--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 18:31, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
:The table indicates what room he'd require if he ever ''did'' join your fortress. By your argument, the pages for the Captain, Diplomat, General, Lieutenant, and Champion should also be deleted because it's not possible to appoint them either. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:24, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Maximizing framerate

2011-01-04T19:27:03Z

DeMatt: Flowing water.

v0.31 Talk:Maximizing framerate

2011-01-04T19:19:50Z

DeMatt: /* Running water */ I forgot.

==World Gen editing to speed Fortress Mode==

On an old slow computer, I have found that editing the world_gen.txt file in the date/init folder to help:

[CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3] - reduce for fewer cavern layers, so less fun, but more speed.
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:20] not entirely sure what these do, but these were the figures when I stopped testing.
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:0] restricts the density of passages, at these figures the caves are not filled with tiny passages

Since I haven't tested exhaustively I don't feel this should be on the front page yet. - JimiD

==More World Gen editing to speed Fortress Mode==

I did some similar testing but instead of changing the number of cavern layers I changed the size of the caverns themselves. The defaults are '''Minimum Natural Cave Size 5, Maximum Natural Cave Size 25'''. I lowered these to 4 and 12 and ended up with a map with less than 40 z levels below ground. This significantly improved performance, load and save time without sacrificing the cave features. In fact it's a little funner since I don't have to travel so far to get to magma. Currently I'm running close to 50 dwarves and I'm noticing almost no hiccups or drop in frame rate(from 100).

I have only tested this on one map and each cavern layer has exactly 5 z levels each which is odd. More testing needs to be done to get exact figures but it does seem to be an excellent alternative to lowering the number of caves or the size of embark. Using this method, increasing the embark size isn't out of the question.

I tested this map on my 1.6GHZ EeePC Netbook and got a reliable framerate of 34, which is quite playable. - Lemunde
::maybe you are confusing rare '''natural caves''' (familiar from 40d version, home to megabeasts, see worldgen-exported sites_and_pops.txt) with the new Cavern Layers which are guaranteed under every embark area. (.31.12) --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 00:49, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

==Importance of Speedup==

I think this is a really important feature which should have a high priority. Maybe this page can get some special attention on the front page along with other pages with high priority?
A lot of people just don't play anymore with all of the graphics problems in this version, which is sad.

Another possibility here is for an explanation of the various init.txt settings, they can really change a LOT in your performance. - Nether
:: try a 3x2 embark. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 00:49, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

==Obsolete for the current version in italic==

I have changed the parts where it is explained that the action is obsolete for the current version into italic font. I believe that this is a minor change which makes the page a lot easier to read.
- Nether

==How true is any of this?==
I've applied the various recommendations given here and noticed absolutely no speedup. Getting rid of thousands of items by atom smashing or gifting to merchants? Nothing. Caging and uncaging fifty animals? Nothing. Blocking off the outside, or the cavern levels, with a locked door, a bridge, a floodgate, a channel? Nothing. Turning off my indoor waterfall was the only thing that seemed to help, getting me about 8FPS extra, from 25 to 33FPS with 105 dorfs. [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 20:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== PRINT_MODE: TEXT ==

Changing PRINT_MODE to TEXT increases my framerate to max (linux). Certain keypresses are however not noticed in terminal, such as shift + arrow key as well as the function keys.
--[[User:Questionmark|Questionmark]] 21:03, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:PRINT_MODE: TEXT (vs 2D) made zero difference for me on Linux (Ubuntu 10.04) [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 13:08, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

== Success Stories ==

Losing is {{l|Fun}}! But there's nothing fun about abandoning your fortress because the framerate has dropped to 6. For many, more fortresses are lost to FPS death than anything else, and improving framerate remains a something of a mystery. If you find something that works, please share it here.

===From 40fps to 140fps===

''pc: 2.2ghz 1.5gb ram. fortress: 2x2 embark, 40-50 dwarves, 130 animals. temp & weather off. 1 cavern''

This fort ran at 150fps for a while but gradually after 11 years slowed to 27.
At this point I've focused my efforts exclusively on maximizing framerate, trying the usual tricks:
* Atom-smashing: no help AT ALL.
* Animal slaughtering / caging: gained 10-15fps for killing about 50 animals.
* Then I notice that my dwarves are FILTHY! Some having over 10+ pages of various blood and pus spatterings in their inventories.
I dig a crude bath, which consists of a hallway which dips down into a brief channel and back up before hitting a dead end.
I designate a Pond zone over the channel and the dwarves waste no time in drawing a bath (1/7 deep).
After designating a burrow on the other side of the bath, I order the entire fortress to it via the Alerts screen (restricting them to that burrow).
Immediately upon crossing the channel my framerate went from ~40 to ~140 and it is decided the fortress will live on!

'''Conclusion''': The amount of items on the map and pathfinding were very minor causes of slowdown in my case. The increases gained from slaughtering animals may well have been from their contaminants being destroyed in the process rather than the pathing they were calculating. Above all, the contaminants were the cause of this fortresses near-demise. --[[User:Uninvited Guest|Uninvited Guest]] 07:27, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

===From 11fps to 24fps===

''pc: 2.1ghz 2gb ram. fortress: 2x2 embark (i think), 110 dwarves, 100 animals.''

As this was my first playthough, I didnt noticed any strange (only that the game was designed to be a bit too low) until I read somewhere about the framerate problems, so I activated mine to show them and saw i was at 11 fps!

I found this guide, and followed the previous case example, I skipped killing animals, or smashing objects, and when straight for the dwarf-wash.

I downloaded DFHacks (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=58809) and made some 7 high water blocks on some chocke points. After unpausing, the whole place was full of mud and blood, so used the dfcleanmap on the same utility pack to make then dissapear.

My FPS went straight to 24 fps; Basically I now see everything x2 the speed i was used to see!

BTW, be carefull with this method, I killed 3 dogs by accident as they smashed on other objects (tidal force I guess) and the 3 of them were pets of my main warrior, who is very angry now! I fear a lot of fun is comming xD

'''Conclusion''': I did not tried any of the other methods, so I cant say they dont work, but I can say, that the filthiness of the dwarf population have a HUGE impact on FPS.
'''Krelian'''

== Running water ==

Nice work by DeMatt in tidying up this page.

Is there any reason running water isn't mentioned? I was under the impression brooks and rivers were big FPS killers, at least in previous versions. Perhaps a sentence about having an off switch for any mist generators, too?

[[User:Bognor|Bognor]] 14:39, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
:Short answer - I forgot. So did Gzalzi. So me using his revamp as a reference for my revamp missed it. I'll go put a note in. If it's something that is pretty much inarguable, feel free to add your own points; take care to explain it clearly. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 19:19, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Maximizing framerate

2011-01-04T08:33:37Z

DeMatt: Moved "Success Stories" from the main page to the Talk page.

v0.31:Maximizing framerate

2011-01-04T08:30:02Z

DeMatt: Many changes. Formatting, description, everything. Comments on the Talk page, please.

User talk:Gzalzi

2011-01-04T07:33:42Z

DeMatt: Newbie template. Rule D.

Welcome to this wiki! Dwarf Fortress rapidly becomes more complicated, and we're always glad to have new writers. 
Since you should try to follow wiki standards, and you probably don't know ours yet, we've made a list of basic guidelines. Note that this is a template, not a customized message for you.
* To tell us who you are when you talk, please sign your posts on discussion pages by typing <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code> after your posts. This can also be inserted with the [[Image:Button sig756222.png]] button if JavaScript is enabled.
* Don't put a question mark in the title of a page. Question marks mess things up, and your page will be moved to a different name.
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<div align=center><div style="width: 28em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.5em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]''</div></div>

I noted your recent chastising of a person's Talk-page question, and I figured I'd point out to you {{rule|D}}. We do encourage questions; they help in letting us DFWiki-contributors know what needs improving in the relevant article. Please try to limit irrelevant contributions, such as "go to some other website to ask questions", to a minimum. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:33, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Magma forge

2011-01-04T07:26:58Z

DeMatt: /* Current Version? */ Yes, magma buildings exist.

== Current Version? ==

Does the magma forge still exist? I'm playing what i think is the current version, and b-w-v is nothing, and none of the magma stuff is in my build lists. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Derektumolo|Derektumolo]]
:Yes. You need to find magma before you can build magma-powered buildings. So, embark on a {{l|volcano}}, channel into a magma pool, dig deep into the {{l|magma sea}}, and then you'll get your magma buildings. But don't use a cheating utility like DFLiquids to add magma - the game won't recognize it. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:26, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

== Magma Multiple Z-Levels Down ==

When building a well it doesn’t matter how many z-levels down the water is, just as long as there is a clear path to water that is at least 3/7 deep. Does anyone know if this is true for magma workshops? Could my magma forge be on level 100 and the magma itself be on level -10, as long as there is a clear path between the two? --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 18:28, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
: No, the magma has to be directly (-1 z level) below the magma-powered building.

z 1 forge
z 0 forge
z -1 magma magma
z -2
'''works''' '''works not!'''

Greetings --[[User:Used|Used]] 18:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
::Nuts. I was hoping to avoid building 100+ magma-safe pumps. Well, time to train a legendary blacksmith. :) --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 19:59, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:::How about digging a safe stairwell to the -32 level (where the magma sea is), and placing magma forges and smelters near the magma sea. Screw pump stacks. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 12:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

==Safe Forge Construction==

This article would be a lot better if it stated which parts of the forge are impassable. I think that the bottom middle square is, correct? I'ma try it and then edit if nobody beats me to it.
:Actually, there is a picture of the workshop, which shows impassable tiles. It's in the table on the right (dark X = impassable, light X = passable). --[[Special:Contributions/91.193.86.67|91.193.86.67]] 08:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Magma forge

2011-01-04T07:22:35Z

DeMatt: Need to find magma to build this.

{{quality|Exceptional|21:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)}}{{av}}
{{Workshop|name=Magma forge|key=v|job=Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Metalsmith, Metal crafter, Trapper, Mechanic
|construction=
* {{L|Fire-safe}} material
* {{L|Anvil}}
|construction_job=
* {{L|Weaponsmith|Weaponsmithing}}
* {{L|Armorsmith|Armoring}}
* {{L|Metalsmith|Blacksmithing}}
* {{L|Metal crafter|Metalcrafting}}
* {{L|Mechanic|Mechanics}}
|use=
* {{L|Metal|Metal bars}}
|production=
*{{L|Crafts}}
*{{L|Goblet}}s (x3 from one metal bar)
*{{L|Toy}}
*{{L|Instrument}}
*{{L|Vial|Flask}}s (x3 from one metal bar)
*{{L|Coins}} (x500 from one metal bar)
*{{L|Stud|Studding}}
*{{L|Furniture}}
}}

The '''magma forge''' is a {{L|workshop}} used by {{L|dwarf|dwarves}} to turn {{L|metal|metal bars}} into useful objects such as {{L|weapon}}s, {{L|ammunition}}, {{L|armor}}, {{L|furniture}}, {{L|coins}}, {{L|trap component}}s, metal crafts and {{L|siege engine|ballista arrow heads}} without the need for {{L|Fuel|coke}} to fuel the reaction.

As with all magma-powered buildings, you cannot build magma forges until you have discovered magma.

To build a magma forge, you must have {{L|fire-safe}} materials, an {{L|anvil}}, and a build site with at least one tile open over {{L|magma}} at least 4/7 deep. Placing the impassable sections of the workshop over the magma will prevent dwarves from getting knocked in and prevent magma creatures from crawling out. While it is possible to construct a magma forge without open access to magma beneath one of its 9 squares, you will be unable to add tasks to the workshop. Note also that, like all workshops, the central tile must be floored, as it is required for a dwarf to use the workshop, and therefore cannot be the square used to access magma (you will be blocked from building the workshop).

==Workshop labors and skills==
Several different types of items can be created at a metalsmith's forge; dwarves will need the correct type of {{L|labor}} enabled for each. The labors used at a forge are:

*{{L|Weaponsmith|Weaponsmithing}} -- {{L|weapon|weapons}}, {{L|trap}} components, {{L|bolt|bolts}}, and {{L|ballista arrowhead|ballista arrowheads}}
*{{L|Armorsmith|Armoring}} (armorer) -- {{L|armor}}
*{{L|Metal crafter|Metalcrafting}} -- {{L|Restraint|chains}}, and everything in the "Other Objects" category ({{L|craft|crafts}}, {{L|coins}}, {{L|goblet|goblets}}, {{L|stud|studding}}, etc.), except anvils
*{{L|Blacksmith|Blacksmithing}} -- Anvils, {{L|block}}s, and all {{L|furniture}} except chains.
*{{L|Trapper|Trapping}} -- Animal Traps.
*{{L|Mechanic|Mechanics}} -- Mechanisms.

==See also==
*{{L|Metalsmith's forge}}

{{Workshops}}

v0.31:Maximizing framerate

2011-01-01T21:28:34Z

DeMatt: Undo revision 134284 by Gzalzi (Talk): Don't try to formalize things so much. Wikipedia this ain't.

{{quality|Fine|08:00, 22 May 2010 (UTC)}}
{{av}}
[[File:Frames_Per_Second_Meter.png|300px|thumb|bottom|A picture of Dwarf Fortress with Frames Per Second displayed.]]

{{L|Frames per second|Framerate}} is used in Dwarf Fortress to measure the speed at which the game is running. To check your FPS (frames per second) in Dwarf Fortress, simply change [FPS:NO] to [FPS:YES] in {{l|init.txt}}, and your FPS will be displayed on the top row of the screen. The first number is the current frame rate, while the number in parenthesis is the current graphical frame refresh rate.

The graphical FPS is also used to control how often input is received; you may find 5-15 graphical rate too clumsy for fluid text and mouse input.

==Ways to increase your framerate==
* Limiting the number of dwarves and other moving units (cage or butcher animals!) greatly helps keep speed up.

* Due to bug (0000296), contaminants such as blood, snow, etc, count as items. Since contaminants can spread and you cannot easily get rid of them, try to avoid things that spread contaminants: wells, killing things in high traffic spots, and soap. If you have a beast that exudes slime, you might as well save your game and wait for an update. Or kill it and use dfcleanmap.

* Get rid of blood and dirt splatters dwarves and pets are carrying around. Doing so increased FPS from 8 to 33 on my machine(6 embark tiles, 130 dwarves, 250 animals, 3 caverns). to achieve this, you can either build a moat/wading pool around a well-visited area, which keeps the water height on 1-2 by using a pump which will clean the water from the dirt. When the dwarves walk through the water, the contaminants will be washed away. A hacking-tools way is to place some 7/7 water splatters around important paths with dfliquids, and running dfcleanmap continuously to remove the blood that gets washed away from the dwarves.

* Decreasing the G_FPS in the init text file can improve your fortress' overall FPS. Be careful however, decreasing it too much can subject you to "incomprehensible graphic instabilities". G_FPS refers to the "maximum graphical frame refresh rate during play." In other words, the maximum number of times it repaints the graphics of your game per second. Remember, with a low G_FPS, it can be dangerous during battle or when arrows are flying over your Dwarves' heads, because the screen doesn't update as often. The default is 50 G_FPS, but it's been reported that 20 G_FPS is fine. Others report being able to play at even 5 G_FPS. There is no set number, just remember to test out a variety of numbers to see which one is right for you and your computer.

* While you're in the init file, play around with PRINT_MODE. DF has recently made it's first foray into SDL, and changing the print mode might let it take slightly better advantage of your graphics card.

*Disabling [[Temperature]] and [[Weather]] in the d_init file increases speed due to fewer calculations being required, but rain will clean the map from blood and broken arrows, so it may actually improve the framerate.

*World size and fortress site size increase RAM usage and decrease speed. Check if you are happier with an embark rectangle of 3x3 or 3x2 and a medium or small world.
::(DF .31.12) World size probably doesn't matter at all (except for save file size), but the embark size and how many cavern layers the world has (defaults to 3).

*Lowering the pathfinding cost for normal tiles to 1 can reduce lag created by open space, but then your high traffic zones are the same as normal zones. Alternatively, you can cover the entire map with high traffic tiles, and simply make everything you don't want your dwarves traveling through low or restricted.

*Closing the fort's entrance to the outside world with a raised bridge or forbidden door decreases the number of possible routes the pathfinder has to calculate, thus increases performance.

* Some people try to reduce the number of items in the fort by "atom-smashing" them under a bridge or donating them away to traders. Alternatively, less digging in the first place results in fewer stones and corridors in the world to consider.

* It will sometimes be mentioned is that since DF is single-threaded, followed by some-suggestion-or-other based on this assertion. This is no longer quite true. It is true that the ''vast majority'' of the work still takes place in a single thread, and Toady has no plans to ever multithread the game logic, but DF does have at least one other thread handling the SDL graphics. This means that (all else being equal) DF should run faster on 2 cores than on 1, but won't run faster on 3 cores than it did on 2, though this effect will be very minor depending on your selection of PRINT_MODE. If you use a PRINT_MODE that passes most of the processing to the GPU then having 2 cores will do next to nothing.

== Success Stories ==
Losing is [[Fun]]! But there's nothing fun about abandoning your fortress because the framerate has dropped to 6. For many, more fortresses are lost to fps death than anything else, and improving framerate remains a something of a mystery. If you find something that works, please share it here.

===From 40fps to 140fps===

''pc: 2.2ghz 1.5gb ram. fortress: 2x2 embark, 40-50 dwarves, 130 animals. temp & weather off. 1 cavern''

This fort ran at 150fps for a while but gradually after 11 years slowed to 27.
At this point I've focused my efforts exclusively on maximizing framerate, trying the usual tricks:
* Atom-smashing: no help AT ALL.
* Animal slaughtering / caging: gained 10-15fps for killing about 50 animals.
* Then I notice that my dwarves are FILTHY! Some having over 10+ pages of various blood and pus spatterings in their inventories.
I dig a crude bath, which consists of a hallway which dips down into a brief channel and back up before hitting a dead end.
I designate a Pond zone over the channel and the dwarves waste no time in drawing a bath (1/7 deep).
After designating a burrow on the other side of the bath, I order the entire fortress to it via the Alerts screen (restricting them to that burrow).
Immediately upon crossing the channel my framerate went from ~40 to ~140 and it is decided the fortress will live on!

'''Conclusion''': The amount of items on the map and pathfinding were very minor causes of slowdown in my case. The increases gained from slaughtering animals may well have been from their contaminants being destroyed in the process rather than the pathing they were calculating. Above all, the contaminants were the cause of this fortresses near-demise. --[[User:Uninvited Guest|Uninvited Guest]] 07:27, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

===From 11fps to 24fps===

''pc: 2.1ghz 2gb ram. fortress: 2x2 embark (i think), 110 dwarves, 100 animals.''

As this was my first playthough, I didnt noticed any strange (only that the game was designed to be a bit too low) until I read somewhere about the framerate problems, so I activated mine to show them and saw i was at 11 fps!

I found this guide, and followed the previous case example, I skipped killing animals, or smashing objects, and when straight for the dwarf-wash.

I downloaded DFHacks (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=58809) and made some 7 high water blocks on some chocke points. After unpausing, the whole place was full of mud and blood, so used the dfcleanmap on the same utility pack to make then dissapear.

My FPS went straight to 24 fps; Basically I now see everything x2 the speed i was used to see!

BTW, be carefull with this method, I killed 3 dogs by accident as they smashed on other objects (tidal force I guess) and the 3 of them were pets of my main warrior, who is very angry now! I fear a lot of fun is comming xD

'''Conclusion''': I did not tried any of the other methods, so I cant say they dont work, but I can say, that the filthiness of the dwarf population have a HUGE impact on FPS.
'''Krelian'''

Talk:On the origins of dwarves

2011-01-01T21:25:33Z

DeMatt: /* Rating */ I say Exceptional.

This page is utterly hilarious; an absolute masterpiece of dwarven humour. This guy should be a comedian. -- KingAuggie

== Rating ==

This article isn't one person's writing, and not really relevant to the game. It either should not have a rating at all, or should be Tattered. [[User:Gzalzi|Gzalzi]] 20:27, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
:This article is a mainspace article, therefore the links to mainspace (instead of L-template) are appropriate. It is clearly marked with the "D for Dwarf" template, thus indicating that the text is not to be treated as Holy Writ. I'll tentatitvely agree with you on the "no rating" part, but without agreement from more and senior editors, I'm not removing the template. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 21:25, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

On the origins of dwarves

2011-01-01T21:07:38Z

DeMatt: Exceptional.

{{quality|Exceptional|21:11, 1 January 2011 (UTC)}}{{D for Dwarf}}

Piecewise's <s>article</s> <s>masterstroke</s> work of art on the forums needs to go here, so all can admire it.

== "On the Origin of Dwarves" ==

Long before our times, during the times of yore when great beasts stalked the darkness and tore civilization’s forebears asunder, there came to this world a strange new race: the dwarves. The ancestry of the dwarves is muddled and confused, often times contradictory, impossible, incestuous or all three. This can mainly be contributed to the dwarven tendency to keep their history through the use of engravings, rather then books or even oral tradition. Dwarves, being a subterranean people, rarely create paper and lack the memories to pass down stories of their ancestors in any reasonable fashion; this inability is mostly blamed on their near constant state of inebriation. Also unfortunate to would be historians is the dwarven tendency to place these historical engravings 60 feet underground and surrounded by all manner of deadly traps, questionable architecture and various slavering beasts. If one didn’t know better it would seem as though they are deliberately hiding their past.

Through what can be recovered the origin of dwarven kind (according to their creation myths) is as follows:

Once, long ago, a particularly ugly and foul tempered mountain goat raped a particularly hairy and insane Mandrill atop a pile of stones and vomit. From this coupling was born the first of dwarven kind, the Mountain King. He was born with a battle ax and bottomless tankard clutched in his tiny hands and his body was covered in such copious amounts of hair that he might easily have been mistaken for a bearded bear cub. The Mountain King was raised by a Granite Boulder and grew strong upon a diet of booze, cave mushrooms and the blood of his enemies. At age 4 he killed a bear in a staring contest and at age 7 he domesticated the first wagon. Upon his ascendancy into manhood he destroyed the boulder which had raised him and reshaped it into the first anvil, proclaiming:

“Reg limar, abod ber, avuz thol, or mabdug, nokor buket!”

These words would echo forever through dwarvenkind, though it is said that another phrase was within this motto. The lost phrase is said to have been:

“Gatiz emar agak.”

Though what this phrase means has been lost to us and inquiries to dwarven historians often end in violence. What little can be gathered is that it seems to relate to animal husbandry.

His childhood behind him, the Mountain King set about founding the first Mountain Home, digging out most of the mountain by himself using only his bare hands and frighteningly calloused manhood. His lavish home now complete and balanced entirely upon a single pillar he set out to make his name known and to find a wife worthy of baring his fuzzy offspring. The first civilization he came upon were the elves, a race of naked and eternally beautiful feyfolk who abhorred the use of trees or animals for any means. It was said that when they met the Mountain King was in the process of beating a mountain lion to death with a wolf. The elves, in their kindness, attempted to persuade the Mountain King to follow their naturalistic ways. In response the Mountain King tore off the head druid’s face and promptly began using it as his undergarments. Before the shocked elven masses he announced:

“Etar linem etes gubel lor."

Which, roughly translated, means:

“Your king blows my bulbous tool.”

Since this epochal meeting the relations between the elves and dwarves have continued to be tense, often times ending in massive forest fires, rampant cannibalism, horrifying dismemberment or, worst of all, crossbreeding. His duty done, the Mountain King continued his journey through the primal world. He next came upon the goblins and was delighted to find that their skinny limbs and necks broke with even the gentlest of hammer blows. After a brief campaign of recreational genocide the Mountain King grew bored of his new playthings and continued on, leaving the goblins broken and scattered, connected only by their intense hatred of small, bearded people. This hatred continues to this day, resulting in nearly constant goblin raids against dwarven settlements. Unfortunately, goblins' limbs and neck still snap with the ease of twigs, making these valiant efforts more or less meaningless.

The last race which the Mountain King discovered was that of Humans, still in their fragile and frightened infancy. Taking rare pity upon the gangly and awkward race, the Mountain King gifted them with weapons, armor and booze, ensuring a stable business and war partner as well as drinking buddy for generations to come. It was after finding this last race that the Mountain King realized he was still without a wife and was beginning to feel the effects of his decades of celibacy. After a tour of countless brothels and leaving a swath of broken pelvises and dislocated jaws behind him The Mountain king finally returned to his home. Determined to have his bride, the Mountain King built a tower to the heavens themselves and petitioned Armok, God of Blood, to grant him a wife. Armok agreed, on the condition that all their descendants from first to last be cursed with a tendency to die horribly. The Mountain King gladly agreed.

The wife which he was given, The Queen of All Stone, was truly a rightful receiver of his seed and wore a beard that could match his own. It was from these two that all dwarven kind sprang (or walked, being that dwarves don't really spring, hop, jump, skip or do anything that means removing more than one foot from the ground).

From this common ancestor onward the genealogy is scattered and unsure, engraved upon bars of soap and metal beds across the world. Many believe that the first child of the Mountain King was a girl by the name of Urist. Records become scarce beyond this but what little can be found indicate that she was notorious trickster and prone to paranoid mania, preferring to remain isolated. From this point on we can only guess.

== Urist's Anatomy ==

Dwarves are, by weight, 40% Body hair, 30% alcohol, 6% calluses, 12% anger, 7% muscle, 1% skin and 4% miscellaneous. Their blood does not have different “types”; rather it has a variety of “proofs”. Their bone structure is not unlike that of a man, though much stouter and more dense. The exceptions to this comparison come mostly from two places: the legs and the head. Dwarves, for whatever reason, lack knees and are therefore incapable of things like hopping, skipping, running in a dignified manner or bending down without falling prone. Dwarves, however, seem to prefer it this way and regard anything requiring knees as being the actions of “elvish silly nannys”. Several of the other strange anatomical designs are centered in the head and the curious structure of the dwarvish skull. A dwarf’s beard is actually connected directly to the bones of his jaw and palate and is comprised of a thick mane of hair like cartilage growths. These growths are actually quite sensitive to certain stimuli and allow a dwarf to detect things like an abandoned pigtail sock, even from miles away.

The dwarven skull is composed of only two very thick bones, one being the mandible and the other consisting of the entire rest of the cranium. This strange configuration seems to be an adaptation to generations of cave-ins and the popular dwarven drinking game “Smash rock with face”. Unfortunately the thick and solid skull compresses the dwarven brain and induces a species wide mental syndrome not unlike severe bipolar disorder. This means that dwarves are highly susceptible to sudden and often violent mood swings, shifting between murderous rage and enthralled stupor with only a particularly nice sock or table as the cause. Another interesting anomaly, or lack of anomaly, is that of the dwarven liver. Dwarves, as a race, are dependent on alcohol from birth; it has been proven that it is not simply conditioning but that the dwarven body is actually dependent on alcohol to perform at its best. While the exact process that makes them dependent and why it is so necessary is still unknown, it does appear as though the dwarven body is paradoxically not equipped to deal with the massive amounts of alcohol it must imbibe. The dwarven liver is by no means more effective or efficient when it comes to filtering the massive amounts of booze that a dwarf drinks, leading to liver failure to be the leading cause of death among dwarven kind (followed closely by “bludgeoned to death by enraged soap maker”).

Beyond these obvious abnormalities are the less known and harder to distinguish differences in dwarven anatomy. Dwarves are a methodical and stubborn race to the point that every aspect of their life is directly influenced. Dwarves work, party, drink and sleep in marathon-like stints, often times continuing a single party or drinking binge for months on end and their inherent stubbornness makes it nearly impossible to change tasks quickly even if their lives depend on it. It is far from unknown to hear of a dwarven fortress falling to invading hordes simply because the fortress guard were in the middle of a 6 month nap or drinking themselves comatose. This tendency has lead to the adage “oblivious as a dwarf on break”.

Beyond their stubbornness dwarves also exhibit a variety of odd behaviors, some of which seem to be related to their physiology while others are more idiosyncratic. A dwarf’s chosen profession seems to influence his thought patterns in radical ways, often leading to specific phobias and reckless behavior. Non-military dwarves, for example, seem to universally develop a crippling fear of all animals, even the most harmless. It’s not uncommon to see panicking works-dwarves running in abject terror from things like mountain goats and perturbed llamas. Military dwarfs, on the other hand, seem to completely lose their sense of self preservation and run heedlessly into battle, ignoring tactics in favor of fanatic yelling. So removed from their sense of fear are the warrior women that they often carry their children into battle, a tactic which often ends in tragedy; It should be noted, however, that there are few sights more frightening then a dwarven woman, bare from the waist up, holding a suckling newborn in one hand and a battle ax in the other, charging toward you.

The debate on the subject of dwarven depression and anger is a complex one at best and is hard to study without significant risk to life and limb. It’s a well known fact that dwarves are particularly mentally unstable and subject a great many psychoses. One, as yet unproven, theory asserts that this tendency toward madness is actually a inborn limiting mechanism to control the number of dwarves occupying a certain area. It is a documented fact that, as a dwarven civilization grows in population the risk of insanity and depression also increases. Indeed it is impossible to walk into a thriving dwarven civilization and not see at least a handful of raving mad-dwarves screaming at the walls. The Theory asserts, however, that these harmless, though insane, individuals are not the purpose of the madness, merely a unforeseen failing. The true purpose of the madness is to limit population numbers through murder, suicide and random dwarfslaughter. Indeed it does seem that large dwarven civilizations are often brought down by internal subterfuge, mass suicide and ritual murder (or by poor architectural planning).

This inherent tendency toward insanity, whatever its cause, seems to have given dwarves an odd sense of art as well as particular building talents. Dwarves are known world over for their proficiency in metal working and weapon crafting as well as mechanical skill, however it is their decorative arts that are perhaps the most interesting. Take for instance a random piece of dwarven armor, a copper gauntlet in this case. Its construction is of the highest order and it is menacing with iron spikes, however perhaps the most frightening thing is its decoration. Recreated in painstaking detail is an image of a horse. The horse is screaming. Often times things such as dining room walls and children’s toys are adorned with images of violent slaughter, terrible holocausts and the occasional giant mushroom. Its not known exactly why dwarves would decorate their homes in such manner, but the scenes of violence actually seem to stave off fits of madness and violence, perhaps acting in some sort of primitive cathartic manner. Or perhaps Dwarves just genuinely enjoy images of bloody dismemberment and triangles.

== "War, Peace and Fell Moods" ==

The dwarven society is a complex and puzzling one, when compared to our relatively simple human society. Where as we seem to be guided mostly by instinct and desire, dwarves are driven by an entirely different kind of morals and ambitions. For instance, it is still completely unknown, even by the dwarves themselves, where their orders come from. Despite the existence of nobles within their society dwarves seem to act independently yet, paradoxically, also as a whole. For the non-informed imagine it like this. One dwarf may decide to mine out some stone, while another may decided to cut stone blocks and yet another may decide to assemble these blocks into a wall. These dwarves do these actions without the knowledge of what their fellow dwarves are doing and they seem only to do this on a whim. Theories of hivemindism abound, but perhaps the most interesting theory is that, in line with dwarven creation myth, the dwarves are being influenced and semi-puppeted by Armok, the dwarven god of blood, or His helpers. However, these speculations remain simply blind guesses.

A brief glance at dwarven society reveals it to be something like Feudalism, with many settlements under the ultimate control of a Monarchy. However, in depth study reveals that the tiny fraction of nobles actually seem to have very little to do with anything outside of trade relations. The prevailing opinion of the dwarven working class is that nobles are slightly touched in the head and their orders border on delusional. Its common for nobles to attempt to restrict the trade of items that do not exist and often can not exist in a specific settlement; they’re also known for their strange obsessions over seemingly random objects and will demand their manufacture, much to the annoyance of the general masses. Some believe that nobles are simply dwarves which have some how escaped whatever force binds and orders the rest of the workers, leading them to be unreliable and mentally unsound without the external control. In this situation the Aristocracy is seen more as an aggravating and demanding elephant graveyard, a position that the worthless and potentially dangerous of dwarven society are “promoted” to in order to keep them away from weapons or heavy machinery.

The possible exceptions of this rule lie within the dwarven justice system, specifically with the sheriff and the Hammerer. Dwarven law is seemingly draconian in many ways, but is also rather progressive. Dwarves put a great emphasis on the lives of living creatures (so much so that they consider the killing of a tame, non-food animal equivalent to murder) and as such have no capital punishment. What they have instead though, could be said to be even worse. Dwarves have three forms of punishment: Imprisonment, beating and Hammering. The first two are relatively minor, with even the harshest of beatings generally resulting in only minor injuries, it is the final punishment which is the most feared. The Hammering is doled out by the Hammerer, the dwarven equivalent of an executioner who wields a war hammer rather then an ax or sword. Hammering is simply that, the condemned receives repeated blows with the war hammer until either the sentence is carried out or the criminal is dead. While death is not the express purpose of the hammering it is often a side effect, with the other outcome usually being serious, crippling injury. Unfortunately one of the crimes which can possibly net this debilitating consequence is that of failure to comply with work orders, meaning that innocent dwarves may have their heads caved in for their inability to make glass in the middle of a frozen tundra. Its not surprising that nobles tend to meet their ends under suspicious circumstances and are often found under mysterious cave ins or floating face down in the moat.

Despite their warrior mentalities and fierce personalities dwarves have shown themselves to be passive aggressive at best (and aggressively passive at worst). While they are known for their fighting ability and boastful nature they rarely conduct war as an invading force, preferring instead to let the foolhardy enemies break themselves upon a fortresses walls. A common dwarvish saying that of “The best place to insult your enemies is behind forty feet of stone.” Its not to say that the most famous dwarven conflicts were those between dwarves and other sentient beings, far from it in fact. Perhaps the greatest example of the, ahem, quirkiness of dwarven culture is that the grand fortress of Boatmurdered. Boatmurdered endured the normal hardships of a dwarven settlement, namely constant raids from goblins and an inherently unstable society, but there was one main difference: elephants. It is, to this day, not known as to why the settlement was founded so close to the forest of “Tuskydeath”, but the outcome was nothing less then horrifying on all sides. For years the dwarves and elephants traded blows, usually resulting in the brutal impalement or trampling of dwarves or the imprisonment or death of the elephants. This conflict culminated in the creation of a “doomsday device” which was used to halt aggressive flooding as well as to flash boil most of the wildlife. Since the final fiery end of Boatmurdered a fragile truce seems to have been enacted between the elephants and the dwarves, if only to prevent such slaughter from ever occurring again.

Unfortunately one creature continues to be a continuous hazard to dwarven kind is that of carp. The official myth of the dwarves is that Armok created the carp out of river rocks and instructed them to mutilate random passersby. Regardless of their origin carp are considerably dangerous to dwarves, fisher dwarves in particular. Its not uncommon for fisher dwarves to be dragged into the river by swarms of these blood thirsty beasts. Some dwarves die as they are snatched off bridges or while gathering water and are never seen again, at least in one piece. Worse then river carp are the popularly named “death pool carp” or carp that have become trapped in murky pools. These pools are death traps and can be fatal to anything which wanders too close. Perhaps the most terrifying is the idea of what dwarves refer to (in hushed tones) as skeletal carp. These creatures are the remains of carp, animated through dark means, and are reported to be “faster then a beak dog and stronger then an ogre” as well as nearly immune to any sort of conventional weapons. There are reports of hordes of these strangely animate corpses galloping across the bleak and blasted wastes, tearing apart anything which gets in their way. Exactly how a fish, undead or not, can gallop is something beyond this writer’s comprehension.

== The Book of Job(s) ==

Dwarven culture is one dominated by toil and greed, leading most dwarves to be little more then glorified workhorses for the vast majority of their lives. It was once remarked of a dwarven miner that “there has never been a life as cruel or mercifully short as his”. In general dwarven labor is separated into two categories, crafting and hauling things about. For instance, a carpenter is considered a craftdwarf, as he creates useful objects from a raw material; a woodcutter is considered a hauler because his job consists mainly of chopping trees and lugging them around till he inevitably dies during some sort of animal attack. Almost all known dwarven professions have been complied and documented here for the sake of…well, record keeping.

[[Mining]]:
The noble, humble and very crushable miner is a job of both great importance and great ineptitude. On one hand the lives and livelihoods of all other dwarves depend on their ability to carve away the mountain and protect their comrades from the harshness of outdoor living. On the other hand their only discernible skill is the ability to swing a pick and (usually) not get crushed by falling rocks (maybe). It should be noted that, though both the job and the worker are relatively simple, the work does tend to produce sculpted, muscular dwarves ripe for military usage. Let us not forget the tales of dwarven work camps being defended by Herculean miners, their massive arms bulging as they embed pickaxes into elven hearts and minds.

[[Wood cutting]]:
The wood cutter is much like his miner counterpart: essential to many facets of the modern fortress and yet requiring the rough mental equivalency of a wagon wheel. However the wood cutter faces many more dangers in his line of work, from braving the horror of the wide open sky to battling the various forest creatures (sometimes including elven assassins). Unfortunately the woodcutter gains even less recognition then the miner, probably because the material he harvests only has a small set of uses within a well established fortress.

[[Carpentry]]:
Carpenters make various things out of wood, a practice that was deemed “Dangerously elf-like” many generations ago. Because of this carpenters are viewed either as outcasts (if they enjoy their job) or as unfortunate souls doing a terrible duty out of necessity (if they don’t like their job). While it is grudgingly acknowledged that some wooden things are necessary, at least early on, this does not mean that dwarves have to like this fact. In the grand scheme of things dwarves view carpentry as somewhere between manure shoveler and rapist on the scale of social agreeability.

[[Masonry]]:
A mason has a strange place within dwarven society. They're generally seen as respectable by most, their job being one of the more useful and in demand; however they are also sometimes seen as heretical and dangerous. This belief stems from a common dwarven idea that the mountain and natural stone are all around better then anything that they or any of the other races could throw together; as such it’s seen as rather impertinent that a mason would try to “improve” on the natural rock by making unnatural things out of it. However the groups that think this tend to be small fringe groups, many of which also believe that the masons are a world spanning cabal intent on taking over the world and then carving all the mountains into giant cheese statues.

[[Stone detailing]]/[[Engraving]]:
Engravers are an odd bunch, perhaps the most innately subversive group in any dwarven fortress. During times of relative calm they enjoy carving things like triangles and mushrooms, perhaps in an attempt to create some sort of weaponized boredom. However, in troubled times they delight in covering every flat surface in an endless array of disturbing images; it's not uncommon for dwarven bedrooms to be adorned with mosaics of the inhabitant’s loved ones being gored by elephants or trampled by goats. Engravers are often described by their peers as “arseholes”.

[[Animal training]]:
Despite the job title this dwarf seems to have the perplexing task of randomly releasing various terrifying animals from their cages and promptly getting mauled. It seems that occasionally they may accidentally domesticate one of these snarling beasts but this can probably be chalked up to chance. Very rarely they also teach dogs to bite goblins where it hurts.

[[Animal care]]:
See Butcher

[[Health care]]:
See Burial

[[Fish cleaning]], [[small animal dissection]], [[fish dissection]];
Dwarves with any of these jobs seem rather unbalanced and are prone to fire starting and bed wetting. It’s advised that one should keep at least ten feet from them, for a variety of very good reasons, not the least of which being that they are coated in the internal fluids of untold house pets.

[[Butchery]]:
The butcher serves essentially the same purpose a human butcher does, though dwarven butchers seem to prefer battle axes to meat cleavers and enjoy their job a great deal more. While dwarves can live quite healthily on a diet of Plump Helmets they are renown for their delight in all manners of carnivorousness and as such the Butcher is seen as a welcome friend, a bloody and wide eyed bartender. The difference here is that the drinks are undercooked and made from cats.

[[Leatherworking]]:
Dwarves have a code of morals surrounding animals that is strangely familiar. They abhor the torture or mistreatment of their furry companions but seem to have no problem slaughtering, skinning, and eating them wholesale as long as it’s done in a specific manner. This means that there is often a vast amount of usable leather from various beasts and house pets just laying around the fortress, making leatherworking a stable job in deed. Dwarves seem to possess a strange affinity for elf leather products, perhaps a hold over from the leather thong of their great forefather the Mountain King.

[[Tanning]]:
This is the middle man between pet and sock, the great equalizer of life and upholstery. The tanner has the glorious job of taking the semi-rotten skin of various animals (and occasionally people) and transforming it into fine leather to be used as a raw material. It’s unknown how dwarves go about this process, as the human method of tanning requires large tracts of time, various foul chemicals and generally produces an odor that is noticeable for miles. The dwarven Tanneries are, by comparison, tiny workshops often located next to living quarters or even within kitchens. When questioned about this perplexity dwarven tanners whistle and attempt to look uninterested

[[Farming]]:
Dwarven farming takes two paths, the normal above-ground farming which we are familiar with and more exotic underground growing. Dwarves seem to prefer the act of farming underground, even if they occasionally delight in the exotic brews made possible by above ground plants. Beyond the dwarven nutritional staple of booze the farms serve a lesser purpose of producing food and raw materials. Dwarves seem unconcerned about what they eat in most cases and can easily live out their lives subsisting on a diet of Dwarven wine, plump helmet and the occasional side of cat meat; This leads to an overwhelming majority of plump helmet farms which in turn leads a dwarven farm to resemble a scene from Alice in wonderland, albeit a dark, dank, vomit reeking wonderland populated by manic-depressive midgets.

[[Fishing]]:
Depending on the area the job of a fisherdwarf can either be a luxury or a death sentence. In most areas the work of a fisherdwarf is dangerous only because of its need to be outside, amongst wild animals and horrible sky. However if carp are involved this normally menial job becomes a game of roulette, with every moment being just another chance to die. From the few historical carvings we have we know that the dwarves once had a 4th punishment, in addition to their current triad of prison, pummeling, and pounding; this fourth punishment entailed forcing the condemned to fish in a carp infested river till he was finally set upon by the beasts. This punishment was eventually banned, partially because it was deemed too cruel and partially because it tended to have a mortality rate of 4 or 5 rather then the intended 1 as guards and spectators were also dragged to their fishy end.

[[Soap making]]:
Strange does not begin to describe this particular labor, The strangeness of it stems from the fact that dwarves are seemingly incapable of using soap for its intended washing purposes, choosing instead to stacking it about or simply trade it away. The soap maker himself seems perplexed by his creation yet continues to make it. Various men have tried to instruct the dwarves in the use of their creation however they remain seemingly mentally blocked from comprehending its purpose. However, men have also tried to teach the dwarves the meaning of being on fire and were equally unsuccessful, so perhaps there is simply some sort of cognitive dissonance involved.

[[Furnace operating]]:
There is a saying which goes “When a dwarf and fire are wed, the former will inevitably end up dead.” This, above all else, accurately describes the dwarven relationship with things hotter then body temperature. As such it’s surprising that furnace operation is such a safe job, indeed there are no reports of fatalities directly relating to the furnace operator’s job (unless being caught in a cave in counts). How this record is maintained appears to be a complete mystery to all involved, including the Operators themselves. However, since it seems to take the average Operator something like a week to do even the simplest of tasks one could surmise that the record is the result of extreme safety measures or simple cowardice.

[[Wood burning]]:
Wood burners lead a charmed life, revered as heroes for their use of fire to destroy the scourge that is above-ground nature, yet constantly hunted by elven assassins for the same reason. Wood burners are often local celebrities and are the pride of a fortress but the position is rarely volunteered for. The elves, in their endless attempts to destroy dwarven values, have singled wood burners out for death. The term of a Wood burner is usually ended when he his found face down with an oak arrow embedded in his spine.

[[Lye making]]/[[Potash making]]:
This labor includes letting ash float in water and then letting that water dry out (maybe). It also includes setting one’s hair on fire in a desperate attempt to liven up one’s bleak, ashy existence.

[[Weaponsmithing]]:
The act of making a hammer with another hammer, creating the paradox of “where did the first hammer come from?” Weaponsmiths are often hulking brutes of considerable strength, perhaps second only to dwarven accountants in sheer muscle mass. Their job mainly consists of lifting something heavy and smacking it against something hot till something sharp is made. They are considered the backbone of the army, both for their skill in weapon creation and for their general propensity to cave in goblin skulls with their hammers.

[[Armoring]]:
The rival of weaponsmithing, it’s not uncommon for inter-fortress arms races to pop up as weaponsmiths and armorers compete to one up each other. (in this case however I’m referring to the ancient dwarven tradition of “arms races” in which the participants drag themselves around the fortress using only one arm.) The armorers say they are more valuable because you only need one weapon, but many items of armor.

[[Blacksmithing]] and [[Metalcrafting]]:
The work that doesn’t fall into either armoring or weaponsmithing is relegated to the humble blacksmith. The Metalsmith makes the much more mundane objects needed by the fortress, including cups which no one uses and coins that generally have no value.

[[Gem cutting]] and [[Gem setting]]
Gem cutters are the jewelers of the dwarven world and are known for their flamboyant nature and sequin cloaks. They are often found, prancing about the tunnels with small hammers, gathering the raw material for their labor before returning to the shop to gently chisel away. While not a particularly proud part of the fortress gem cutters are tolerated for the vast wealth they bring in. Curiously they’re all named Shirley. Gem setters are a fair bit more dignified, even if their casual attire is a jewel encrusted codpiece.

[[Bonecarving]]:
A habit most pick up in jail is actually a time honored tradition within dwarven society. It’s well known that dwarves prefer to use just about every part of an animal (not because of any sort of ethical ideal, but because it increases profit) and that they have a vicious sense of ironic humor; as such the act of turning elephant bones into arrows with which to shoot more elephants is seen not only as cost effective but as a genocidal good time.

[[Stonecrafting]]:
One thing that dwarven society is never short of is spare rocks and it is the stoneworker’s job to turn all this useless debris into equally useless trade goods. Some of the strangest things a stonecrafter can make are stone musical instruments. How exactly one is expected to play a stone harp is lost on this author.

[[Woodcrafting]]:
Like carpenters, woodcrafters are often the object of ridicule and anger. They do, however, have one talent which brings them some social standing: the ability to make wood bolts for crossbows. As mentioned before dwarves have a love of poetic justice and as such greatly enjoy killing elves with wooden arrows. A famous dwarven general once said of a particular conflict with the elves: “They demanded to know what we had done with all their precious trees. So our archers showed them.”

[[Glassmaking]]:
Dwarves have a perilous relationship with glass. On one hand it’s fragile, a quality dwarves detest. On the other it’s shiny and involves fire in its creation, both qualities which they love. Regardless of their opinions on the substance glass tends to have few if any practical uses within a fortress, being that windows aren’t exactly a necessity a mile beneath the earth. Much like the stonecrafter the glass maker seems to focus his efforts on building things like Goblets which dwarves never use and toys which will invariably shatter into some child’s hands and eyes. However, unlike the stonecrafter, the glassmaker’s raw material is time and resource consuming to create. This leads to the common impression that dwarven glassmakers are insane.

[[Siege engineering]] and [[Siege operating]]:
Merchants of death on a grand scale, Siege engineers create the dwarven weapons of mass destruction: the ballista and the catapult. Regarded as talented though a bit off, as they tend to test their wares on migrants and unsuspecting wildlife, much to their own delight.

[[Mechanics]]:
The dwarven mechanic is usually considered one of the most intelligent of dwarven society, capable of constructing everything from power generators to deadly traps. Oddly enough they require only one type of mechanism to do this, though the number of these mechanisms varies from machine to machine. Humans have for years tried to discover the method by which such complex apparatuses can be constructed with only 2-3 parts and have in-so-far been unsuccessful. Another mystery is the way in which mechanics can mechanically connect two objects, even across massive distances, with only two of these mechanisms. When we questioned a dwarven mechanic by the name of Hertz about this seemingly impossible phenomenon he merely shrugged and replied “Ich habe keine Idee, aber es ist recht interessant.”

[[Weaving]]:
While the task of weaving is usually relegated to the women of other races dwarves hold no such sexist policies. Instead they have much more dangerous policies, like capturing enormous spiders and feeding them a constant diet of crippled goblins in order to harvest the spider’s web for high value silk production. It should be noted that the dwarves also do not discriminate who to feed to said spider based on sex, race or age; in other words it’s equal opportunity murder all around.

[[Dyeing]]:
A favorite activity of dwarves, especially those near volcanoes or cliffs.

[[Clothes making]]:
Dwarves are a simple race when it comes to clothing, many wear and in fact prefer to wear simple clothing. Of course this simple clothing invariably degenerates into rags prompting the creation of new clothing. After all, spending is better then mending. Counter intuitively though the post as clothier is rarely filled, meaning that the demand for new clothing often goes unanswered. When asked why so few are willing to become a clothier most dwarves will simply scream and run, while the few braver souls will recount stories of horrible carnage and destruction. It is believed, after careful study, that the loom is actually a distant cousin of the Wagon; however, unlike the wagon, the loom is capable of moving of its own accord. Loss of life and limb is rife.

[[Milling]]:
Dwarves tend to do this when they should otherwise be working.

[[Hunting]]:
In theory this is the practice of bludgeoning, stabbing or shooting various wildlife to death in order to use their carcass as food or raw materials. In reality it’s the practice of wandering into the forest, getting trampled or gored and then dragging one’s crippled self back to the fortress where one then occupies a bed for the rest of one’s natural life.

[[Brewing]]:
Brewers are loved above all others in their community and in the cases of exceptional brewers almost worshiped. A master brewer will often have a harem of comely young women (or nubile young boys) along with substantial treasure and fame. However a brewer who disgraces the practice by brewing sub-par drinks will be ridiculed and despised, or in some extreme cases publicly lynched. It should be noted that many of the aforementioned actions and decisions happen while the participants are extremely inebriated on said brewers beer. This has lead to the adage “Madder then a Dwarf on Sewer Brew”

[[Plant gathering]]:
The act of tearing various plants out of the ground for various purposes, the favorite of which is “just to annoy the blasted elves”. The brewers do thank the gatherers - sometimes.

[[Milking]]:
Dwarves are quite odd in their choice of which animal to milk. While all manner of mammals are available to dwarves, including the cow, camel, ox and goat, dwarves instead choose a insect as their only source of milk. Beyond this they chose a maggot that many dwarves find detestable and that can only be milked one a season. When asked why they would do something so counter-intuitive most dwarves look embarrassed and attempt to change the subject.

[[Cheese making]]:
Because milk is a rather rare commodity in dwarven society, for aforementioned reasons, the prospect of cheese is rather dubious. Because of this dwarven cheese is actually extremely valuable, equal to dragon meat. This author wonders if the choice of “dwarven” cheese rather then “purring maggot” cheese has something to do with this, though dwarven cheese implies rather disturbing things in and of itself.

[[Cooking]]:
Dwarven cooks are only grudgingly accepted into society, mainly because they are seen as an unnecessary step between the raw meat of the butcher and a potential meal. The dwarves are not particularly unreasonable in this either as it is a well documented fact that dwarven cooks do not, in fact, cook anything. Raw meat, plant products and Minced wine are simply mixed together to create “roasts” and “biscuits”. While these names may sound appetizing the reality of the matter is that they are gelatinous masses of grayish moist unhappiness. While many outsiders think that the miasma found around kitchens is the result of rotting food, it is actually a byproduct of successful cooking.

[[Trapping]]:
Imagine, if you will, a great and grizzled mountain man with a long flowing beard and eyes shining like two great lumps of coal. Imagine this man holding a bear trap. Imagine this man chasing a mouse with this bear trap. This is the basic scenario of dwarven Trapping.

[[Architecture]]:
The dwarven architect is often uneducated and inexperienced, sometimes picked simply because he is the closest to the current construction job. Thus thrust into his new position the unfortunate victim usually fails terribly, often ending in the deaths of several masons and the stranding of many more. In order to avoid embarrassment the project foreman has the architect jailed and supposedly executed. However, rather then actually executing him the foreman simply gives the victim a false beard to wear over his real one and then reintroduces him into society. By the end of his life time the average dwarf is reported to be wearing no fewer then 3 false beards over his real one.

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Quality

2011-01-01T21:04:03Z

DeMatt: /* {{l|linkname}} */ L-template for DF-version control.

==Downgrade from Fine to Tattered==
Now that xTatteredx has been implemented, all of the -Fine- articles which are definitely not fine should be downgraded. I suggest we all go through a letter of the alphabet from [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Category:DF2010:Fine_Quality_Articles here] and rate all the articles properly. I've already done so for letters A and B... 24 more to go. If you have extra info to add, don't hold back.

Go and rate!

: What's the difference between fine and tattered? At present you have the exact same criteria listed for both categories. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 18:58, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
::I had changed Tattered to be different from Fine, but VengefulDonut apparently disagreed and reverted them back to being identical. So Yeah. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:20, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:::Either you two didn't read them or we disagree over what the word identical means. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:43, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
::::Okay, ''nearly'' identical. Out of the 5 properties on each one, 3 are the same. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:52, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

:::::Alright. What about this? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:04, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::: It's apparently been edited since I said something. I assure you it was identical when I posted, which was very confusing. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 00:58, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::It wasn't identical, there was a slight difference. Too small but it was there. [[User:Speed112|Speed112]] 01:23, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

==Stone, gem and similar articles==
Any thoughts on how to rate these? Many of them seem to be tagged as stubs, but the stone template in particular seems to me to cover most of the salient information. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 20:20, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

:In my view, quality should be a reflection of the percentage of the total information about a given subject that exists. So if we're talking about non-special stones, there is very little information aside from their basic properties, colours, locations etc. Thus if an article encapsulates all of those, it should be rated fairly high quality. I can see that there could be an argument for adding like a little descriptive sentence on the page or something, but surely brevity and simplicity are features that suggest a higher quality of article. In addition, if you look at the current definition for Masterwork Quality articles, these basic stone articles are comprehensive on the subject, contain no unverified information, have an appropriate number of outbound links, do not have any redlinks and are properly categorized. The only feature I am not sure on is whether the links are in the right format, but I'd be willing to bet that it is. If that is the case, the only problem with them, and the only thing holding them back from being Masterwork (by the current definition) is the fact that they do not have multiple editors. Surely then, if we go through the pages and quickly check if the information is correct, we can then reclassify them as Masterwork. [[User:Pie|Pie]] 00:36, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

: Adding the real life information is just extraneous nonsense that doesn't help anything. Every mineral article has a link to the wikipedia page on the same subject already (in the side chart), we simply do not require a chemical formula and a crystal matrix diagram for every mineral on a wiki devoted to Dwarf Fortress gameplay.
: For vermin articles, it makes sense to have a longer article for the economically important cave spider. For mineral articles, it makes sense to have a longer article for the rare and game specific adamantine. A D for Dwarf section for minerals like chert is simply unreasonable, and would take away from the specific purpose of the wiki, which is information first.
: All of the mineral articles fulfill the masterwork obligations. They are as comprehensive on the subject at hand as necessary, because this is a game, not a geology lesson. If players are interested in geology, they can find the information they need more effectively elsewhere. [[User:JohnnyMadhouse|JohnnyMadhouse]] 22:54, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

:It seems that rating these articles removes the gamedata properties. The template is in place, but the actual information (i.e. layer, melting point, boiling point, etc.) is gone. I'm not sure how to recover it. [[User:Shadowfury333|Shadowfury333]] 00:55, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
::What browser are you using? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:39, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Mozilla Firefox 3.6.3 [[User:Shadowfury333|Shadowfury333]] 18:51, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
::I see that you've rated 2 stone pages (Chalk and Chert), and both of them are still showing all of the appropriate information. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:24, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Hmm. Going back they appear to have the information again. Maybe it just takes a little while to update it with the rating. [[User:Shadowfury333|Shadowfury333]] 18:52, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

:Well, I'm done fleshing out layer stones and vermin with descriptive phrases, and raised them all to ≡Exceptional≡ quality. I know the necessary information is there in the infoboxes and the raw files, but I would imagine newcomers to the game and wiki would appreciate an easy to read sentence or two giving a broad overview of the item in question. --[[User:Shadowfury333|Shadowfury333]] 01:46, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

:Okay, done trees and plants. Not sure what to do next. Probably any old skills not properly described. --[[User:Shadowfury333|Shadowfury333]] 21:37, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

==who rates those articles==
who rates those articles?
::I have been. If I shouldn't be, someone say so now. Also, should ~100% of content articles be rated? --[[User:StrongAxe|StrongAxe]] 18:42, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
:::As there isn't much of a vandalism thing going on here, I think it should be the original author of the article who rates it, with some admin verification following--[[User:Smd|Smd]] 15:25, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Anyone and everyone should be rating the articles. Don't agree with an article rating? leave a note why on the talk page and re-rate the page in question. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 01:35, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

:Anybody can rate an article, it's a wiki and we're ''supposed to'' all work together. Just try to correct or update anything that needs changing. If you spot vandalism, go to the '''history''' tab next to the discussion/edit tabs and revert the page to a pre-vandal version. [[Special:Contributions/97.90.193.201|97.90.193.201]] 17:57, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

== Changing levels ==
:There was a discussion [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=54970.msg1183319#msg1183319 on the forums] involving changing the quality levels to Fine, Exceptional, and Masterwork. Yes/no?--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 17:29, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
::I think this is a great idea. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 17:31, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
::I second. The forum thread linked above garnered broad support for -Fine-, +Exceptional+, *Masterwork* after discussing several options. -Grae
:::Agreed, with the quality modifiers in place, they're awesome for this wiki. I mean, what's more Dwarf Fortressy than having a good *article*? --[[User:Aescula|Aescula]] 21:32, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
::Indeed, it seems to fit the game better rather than fit with common player perceptions of the races in game.[[User:Vattic|Vattic]] 20:51, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
::Although I think the Fine, Exceptional, Masterwork is a better grading scheme I have to question the need for more than two levels. Either an article doesn't have enough information (currently Elven) or it does (currently Human or Dwarven. The distinction between the top too levels is mostly in how it links to other articles which I think is a poor way to grade. For example you could make a Human article Dwarven by removing any red links or badly formed links but arguably this reduces the quality of the article itself. So I'd suggest just having a rating for poor pages and leaving good ones without any tag. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 14:51, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
:::I think there is some value to pointing out articles that are not only accurate and full of all the information, but also easy to navigate within and between. Hence the distinction between what is good and great. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 16:28, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
::::But that is not what we are doing as by removing the links on a Human article you can end up with a Dwarven article. That is not a good reinforcement. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 07:50, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::I added another category requirement for an Exceptional article now. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 00:15, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

== Template/method ==

I see that this was set up with different templates for each quality level. Is that really the best way to go? Couldn't instead of <nowiki> {{elven}} {{dwarven}} {{human}} </nowiki> could we do <nowiki> {{Quality|<low>}} {{Quality|<med>}} {{Quality|<high>}} </nowiki> (for whatever those three are)? Thoughts? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 17:50, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
:That seems far more sensible to me. The three tags are now very confusing if you don't happen to have been around while the quality thing's been introduced. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 15:47, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
::I also agree - it would centralize the formatting rules, and even potentially allow people to set what kind of label they want to see. --[[User:Krenn|Krenn]] 07:06, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Feel free to implement this if you feel so inclined. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 00:15, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
::::Alright, I'll try to work on this tonight. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 19:30, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

This started out as a project to point what needs fixing. Fine is a '''terrible''' name for the bottom quality rank. If you are hell-bent on driving the DF reference all the way, make the lowest rank XShoddyX [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:39, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

:Also, the comments on the forums seem to be more objections than suggestions. Perhaps the original elven/human/dwarven ranking would work. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:45, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
::I'd also like to nitpick that the current labels, "-Fine-" "+Exceptional+" and "*Masterwork*", are wrong - they ''should'' be "+Fine+" "≡Exceptional≡" and "☼Masterwork☼". --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:00, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

:I think the purpose of pointing to what needs fixing works just as fine regardless of names. Anyone who cliks those links (which anyone who wants to fix things on the wiki probably will) understand what fine pages need more work.
:I don't think elven/human/dwarven was any better at showing what needs improvement. While fine/exceptional/masterwork might not accurately measure the bottom level, at least it shows a gradient which elven/human/dwarven does not. I have no objection to bumping it to 4 levels (I think something LIKE stub could be there, shoddy isn't bad) that seems like a very good idea to me.
:Vengeful, I know there are a lot of objections but when asked for some suggestions this change seemed very highly requested. I simply implmented it because I agreed that "elven" doesn't really equal "bad" or even "worse then human".
:Yeah, Agreed Quiest, I'll change that. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 14:30, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

::We don't need more levels. We just need the labels for the current levels to match their purpose. The bottom level, which represents "needs improvement" articles, needs to have a tag that sounds '''bad'''. xTatteredx and xShoddyx would fit the current theme. Replacing it all with number ranks would solve it (say, level of magma). As long as the label doesn't directly conflict with the purpose of the category, the way fine does. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:54, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

:::Sounds good, it was a little work to make sure the shift happened correctly. If you want to do the change to "Shoddy" or "Tattered" then cool, otherwise I'll maybe do it sometime this week. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 17:24, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

::::Something a little negative about that, isn't there? "Stub" says 'this needs more adding to it' whereas "shoddy" says 'what's here isn't much cop'. I agree that "Fine" is probably a bit generous. Offhand, however, I don't have another suggestion for the lowest level.
::::There's probably an argument to make that the middle level would be better as "Fine" if the lowest is changed - I think there's a clearer distinction then between it and the top level. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 21:02, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

::::I just noticed the addition of "xTATTEREDx". Now we have a brand new problem: There's absolutely nothing in between "poor" (tattered) and "good" (fine). We need something neutral. Poor - Neutral - Good - Great is a fine progression, but we don't have anything that sounds "neutral".[[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 07:47, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

::::::Yeah. Fine really isn't a neutral word. What would be a good replacement? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:30, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::::How about Adequate (no -decorations-), to mirror the no-adjective change to skill levels? --[[User:Onul Rigothzas|Onul Rigothzas]] 03:47, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:::::Well tbh fine is fine, not good, as in it's not bad but it isn't good either = neutral. Exceptional = good and Masterwork = great. I was in fact thinking that, rating-wise, Masterwork is really close to Exceptional, and Exceptional is pretty far away from Fine, so it would be a good idea to turn Fine into Well-crafted and Exceptional into Superior, to have them all 2 levels apart: Tattered(0), Well-crafted(2), Superior(4), Masterful(6... or 12). --[[User:Speed112|Speed112]] 12:14, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

==Quality categories by version namespace==

Is there a relatively simple way to view a list of, say, all DF2010 articles of Fine quality? If not, could there be? It would be quite handy for targeting articles to be improved. --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 03:29, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
:Doing so would require editing the {{tl|Quality}} template itself, though it might not be a bad idea. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:04, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
::I was thinking of doing that. We'll leave this here for a little so people can comment on it, but then if noone opposes I'll make the change. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 17:22, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
:::With this in place, would calculating the "Overall quality rating" for each version not be more useful? Either for each namespace or for each + the articles in the mainspace, maybe? [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 21:05, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
::::I've just updated the progress bar template to allow it to focus on a single namespace. 40d has a reasonably high rating, while 23a is way worse than even DF2010. I've also tweaked this Quality page to list the quality stats for all 3 namespaces - it's a bit busy, but the information should be useful. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:57, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::Looks great IMO, thanks! --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 15:02, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::My god, stats. Stats everywhere! I love it. Well done. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 15:27, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

There's no mention of the "Version:Quality" style categories on [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality|the quality page]]. Should those be added immediately, or are we waiting until we've reached a decision on if ratings will differ between versions? Because I would add them, but I don't want to screw things up. [[User:SenorPwnage|Señor Pwnage]] 02:36, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

==Drop in overall quality rating==
Why has the quality rating seen on the main page dropped so precipitously? It was at over 20% a week or two ago, now it is at 11%. Is this due to articles being rerated downward, or due to the hundreds of nearly-stub pages such as [[DF2010:Aquamarine]]? Has the calculation method changed? Or another cause? —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 20:19, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
:Almost certainly the latter, and probably partially my fault - whenever I find a page that has no rating at all, I just give it a "Fine" rating so it at least has a rating ''at all'' - I'm of the opinion that it's better for a page to be underrated than completely unrated. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:33, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
::And I agree, the lowest rating should be applied to the worst articles. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 17:21, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Given that a bunch of the articles have been blindly categorized as "Fine", I'm going through and rerating a bunch of them as "Unrated" which will place them in a distinct category so other users can provide more accurate ratings. It would probably be beneficial to make the template recognize this rating and list it on this project page (and somehow include them on the progress bar thingy). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:36, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
::::I'd suggest not doing that. Fine is currently the "bottom" rating. We can that name if we want, but having to go back and change unrated to "new bottom rating" will be a lot of unnecessary work, imo. Don't you think? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 22:50, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::"Unrated" was '''not''' intended to be a "new bottom rating", but a way of denoting that an article ''needs to be (re-)rated'' - since the intent is that every page (or at least all of those in the DF2010 namespace) should have a quality rating, it's useful to be able to explicitly categorize an article as needing a rating without having to rate the article yourself (for those who are very poor judges of quality). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:55, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
:I'm also rather shocked at the brutal re-rating of everything. Not one Masterwork article? Seriously? If everything's just going to end up in a morass of Fine, where Fine can be anything from a pointless stub to a half-decent, usable article, then the system really isn't helping. --[[User:Krenn|Krenn]] 05:08, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
::Ah - replying to my own post in case anyone else has the same confusion I did; the problem is that the links to the categories from the Quality page go to '''non-version specific''' categories of Fine, Exceptional, and Masterwork, and nothing is in those anymore. All articles are now of a quality rating specific to their own namespace, IE: [[:Category:DF2010:Masterwork Quality Articles]]. I still think rating is being too harsh, though, as there's only 3 masterwork right now and that seems low. --[[User:Krenn|Krenn]] 05:14, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
:::I'll fix this. Also, the count is just how many articles are labeled masterwork, if you can find some other than those three that are masterwork, please label them such :). [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 06:15, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
::::There are only 2!!! masterwork articles now for some reason. Don't know if the 3rd one deserved being downgraded or not, but this makes me kind of sad. We need to do something about all these "fine" articles which are anything but fine, and bump more-than-decent exceptional articles with some extra stuff to make them masterwork... guides maybe? I don't know. But I don't really like it. I'm trying to do stuff but I'm new (so I suck) and don't have time... the answer is for everyone to do small things and not let it to a few good members. --[[User:Speed112|Speed112]]

== Criteria ==

Currently, having a "substantial number of redlinks" is grounds for an article being rated as Fine. While this is okay for new pages, it's a bit unfair to articles in the 23a namespace, where most of the content is concrete but simply hasn't been imported from the Archive wiki yet. Should this distinguish between redlinks due to incorrect formatting versus redlinks due to pending creation of other pages? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:48, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
:I tend to think the rules should be ''substantially'' different in the 23a namespace, as it is essentially historical content being ported into the current wiki for reference purposes. So I would actually argue that 23a pages should not be rated at all, nor taken into account in the quality rating. Speaking of that, it used to be wiki policy to make minimal edits — don't these repeated ratings lead to extra entries in the page histories and extra disk space consumed? Or are the ratings handled thru a database entry maybe? —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 19:57, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
::By that argument, should not 40d articles also be exempt from being rated? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:20, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Disk space is not a concern. However, fine as the bottom rating of articles is not fine. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 20:22, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

== Proposal: No ratings for 40d and 23a ==
Those parts of the wiki are mostly static (and hopefully generally complete) and increasingly of historic interest only. The way I understand the rating, it's mostly to show the ongoing process of completing a new version and telling a user how to evaluate an article.

We could alternatively introduce separate rating templates for 40d and 23a.. --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 21:52, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps just alternate categories? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 22:48, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

:Specifics of implementation aside, I think a ratings system that only counts current version and mainspace articles in the overall wiki score is a good idea. --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 00:39, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
::This is now implmented, the "score" is DF2010 only. Hohlenschreck, does this meet your ideas? Or do you not want labels on older articles at all? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 06:30, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
:::I think this is fine --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 00:43, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

== Quality is not updating itself ==

I've been testing something, and looking at a preview via edit, it shows a different quality than normal, like it's not updating the quality at all. I'm not sure if this is a bug, or as possible as a wiki can go. Any ideas as to why this is happening? --[[User:Hugna|Hugna]] 07:10, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
:The quality won't update itself automatically while you preview. From Recent Changes it looks like (maybe) there is now something which automatically updates rating based on some script? Interesting if that's the case. But it definitely won't have any impact while you are previewing (also not immediately after you save either). [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 11:12, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

:What do you mean by a different quality than normal? If you hit preview when on the edit page, it will show whatever quality tag is currently on the page. Also Mason, the rate script is just an easier method to add/update a quality tag -- shouldn't have anything to do with what he's talking about, I hope. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 11:54, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

== Difference between exceptional and masterwork ==

I've noticed there has been some talk about exceptionals/materworks over on the [[Black diamond]] page. I'm continuing the topic here, to have everything in centralised discussion... My two cents: I think "exceptional" should be the standard for an article that contains all in-game information. Masterworks should then be articles that for some reason exceed the standard value and add something extra - like guides (great example it the [[Cave spider]] page) or massive amounts of information organised in a convenient way (like the generic [[Tree]] page). I'm saying this mostly as a user, who expects masterworks to be something worth reading. Having masterworks that are basically just stubs (eg. the [[Black diamond]]) is very counterintuitive, even if nothing remains to be said.
Yes, I'm aware this would mean rearranging the quality criteria. --[[User:Markus cz|Markus cz]] 11:38, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
:Makes sense to me. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 12:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
::That's the way I view it too. Since we've now got xTatteredx for useless articles and +Fine+ for mediocre ones, putting ≡Exceptional≡ as "complete" and ☼Masterwork☼ as "over and beyond" seems appropriate. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 01:42, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:I agree, Masterwork articles need to be something particularly special. I don't think it's a problem if some articles, by their nature, may never be able to be "masterwork". [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 12:43, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
::I just want to point out that if Exceptional is the goal, it should score as 100%, not 60%, in the math for the quality rating. (I think Fine should also be bumped upward from 30%, and Tattered bumped up from 0% to maybe 10%.) I won't make the change myself, as my last edit to the math was reversed. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 14:51, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Your [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality/rating&diff=prev&oldid=110861 last edit to the math] was reversed due to said change consisting of ''adding a random number from -30 to +40 to the rating'', as well as outright labeling it as "'''malicious'''". --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:31, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
::::Do you have a point? —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 16:45, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::The point is, your suggested contribution here is useful. The addition of a random element to the rating value was not judged as useful. One was reverted, the other is very unlikely to be reverted unless another better idea comes along. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 18:51, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
:::And there in lies the problem (perhaps the only among all the positives) of a rating system like this. It doesn't let you specifically point out impressive achievements without marking everything else as missing something. I mean it takes away the benefit of highlighting the best work we've (well, not really me, but other people) came up with as a group in order to assign a score. But I can't think of another way of doing it. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 05:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

:Let's add the following requirement (or something along these lines) for an article to be considered masterwork:
:* This is enlightening.
:or maybe something like this:
:* All DF players should read this article.
:It would be good to have something that says the page is an important one, and not just a comprehensive one. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:32, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::::I agree. Maybe not specifically these criteria, but something along those lines. Masterwork articles should shine among other great articles (Exceptional) and be, indeed, masterwork.
::::Another idea would be to tweak the rating so that Exceptional articles are complete (100%) and Masterwork are complete with a spark of awesomeness. What I mean is that they should still count as 100% on the rating percentile, but there should be another counter of awesomeness which says how many Masterwork quality articles there are. [[User:Speed112|Speed112]] 10:58, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

== Problem with the timestamp via "rating page" ==

It's a little odd nobody noticed it until now. The timestamp the automated "Qualityrator" creates, is always '''08:00, 22 May 2010 (UTC)'''. I don't think this should be like it is. Why do we have the timestamp when ist is alwasy the same? Do I get anything worng? --[[User:Used|Used]]
:Looks like the [[User:Emi/review.js|rater script]] just included the exact text <nowiki>"~~~~~"</nowiki> instead of splitting it into 2 strings, meaning it got substituted when the page was actually saved. I must admit, it's quite amusing that nobody noticed it until now. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 12:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah, thank you! You are great =). Now this can be fixed soon. --[[User:Used|Used]] 08:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

== Auto rate ==

the 'rate' feature hangs for me at
Automatic Criteria:
Is page orphaned.... NO
Is page deadend......
How many redlinks does page contain......

is this expected behavior? I've been working around by manually editing the quality, and adding the appropriate timestamp. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 02:55, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Addendum: looking at the script, it seems to be counting the number of ways that a page can be reached from the index. Would it be faster to stop as soon as one route was found, or is the cnt there more than a go/no go? [[User:Decius|Decius]] 03:08, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
:The count does affect the rating guidelines, and the script seems to work fine for me. I'll look into it and see what I can or can't figure out. What browser is this on? --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 12:24, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
::IE 8.0, using a marginal wireless network. If there's a significant data transfer involved, it will probably be interrupted. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 01:24, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== <nowiki>{{l|linkname}}</nowiki> ==

This requirement for *Masterwork* is a little absurd, unless pages need to be created for every variation of the name of the article. Not only is the improper link formatting, but there are many possiblites when the use of <nowiki>{{l|linkname}}</nowiki> simple doesn't work properly. The requirement does say "except where a link to another namespace is required," which I suppose covers my previous statement; even then, if there is going to be such a huge exception, why even use it at all? Not only would it be easier to just use proper link formatting, but articles would be more standardized (which this Wiki '''badly''' needs).

This wiki is in sad shape, not only would this Quality page would be considered tattered (in my opinion,lacks information, information is unclear), there isn't even a <s>{{l|Manual of Style}}</s> [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] here!

I won't change any of the current <nowiki>{{l|linkname}}</nowiki> links on pages I edit, but until there is actually some standardization here, I'll be using <nowiki>[[pagename|linkname]]</nowiki> [[User:Gzalzi|Gzalzi]] 20:09, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
:You're supposed to use <nowiki>{{l|linkname}}</nowiki> the same way you use <nowiki>[[linkname]]</nowiki>. You can format it <nowiki>{{l|pagename|linkname}}</nowiki>, just as with the standard link formatting. The reason for using the L-template is because of the versioning process - when DF2011 comes around, they're gonna '''copy''' all the DF2010 pages into the new DF2011 namespace, and then change the L-template so DF2011 links bounce around in DF2011 pages, while DF2010 links bounce around in DF2010 pages. You can already see this at work in the 40d pages - clicking on an L-template link in [[40d:Stone]], like the links in the first paragraph, causes you to go to the 40d versions of the pages.
:I disagree with you on the quality of the Quality page. I'd put it at Exceptional. You'll have to explain what information you're looking for to convince me otherwise; unfortunately, these ratings are a little subjective, so trying to apply the "rules" as rules doesn't work very well.
:I'm reasonably, fairly, confidently, sure that the links in the Article Version template don't count towards the guidelines for Masterwork. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 21:04, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Bedroom

2010-12-29T08:15:01Z

DeMatt: /* One big room? */ Up to you. Arguments either way.

==Stuff from 40d that needs to be confirmed in 2010==
*Do dwarves get all pissy from not having a chest in their room once the economy starts?
*There is currently a bug concerning who sleeps where. Until that is resolved, it is unlikely we will be able to complete the Who sleeps where section.
*Do nobles get angry if average dwarves have luxurious bedrooms? I'm not even sure if this was true in 40d...
*Do dwarves still get angry about noise?
--[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 03:29, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

: As the economy does not exist in this version, the first question is irrelevant --[[User:Twilightdusk|Twilightdusk]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

==Old information regarding bed ownership bug==
Didn't Toady say that the "Who will sleep where bug" is fixed?
"There were issues with people sleeping on the floor when they had rooms, or sleeping in the wrong beds, that should be fixed now (you might have to replace some beds in old forts though)." -Toady regarding 0.31.13.

[[Special:Contributions/85.131.31.8|85.131.31.8]] 17:22, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

==One big room?==
Is there any reason not to have one large room full of 9x9 "owned" bedrooms? This seems like the best way to avoid traffic issues. 9x9 is enough room to include bed, chair, table, cabinet, coffer, and armor/weapon rack for mayor and guard captain. My dwarves were perfectly happy with other dwarves tromping over their bed and stuff even when they slept.[[User:Rembrandtq|Rembrandtq]] 22:45, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
:Some people do like to do things this way. Conveniently, it lets you share high-value furniture between rooms, so you don't have to churn out as much to keep your nobles happy. However, some nobles do get annoyed if other dwarves have bedrooms which are as fancy as their own. Others prefer their bedrooms to have walls. This lets you lock the dwarf into his bedroom, if need be, thus allowing them to suffer [[unfortunate accident]]s without the rest of the fortress suffering the same fate. Ultimately, it's up to you. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 08:15, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Stairs

2010-12-29T08:08:24Z

DeMatt: Sections. Movement cost comments.

==Carving Staircases from Below==
At the moment, dwarves cannot carve staircases from below. they can only carve staircases into tiles beside or directly below themselves. So if your miners get stuck in a hole, while they may be able to carve the up staircase, they won't be able to carve the necessary down staircase on the z-level above, and thus they will still be stuck. This means ramps are, under certain circumstances, a more effective and safer method of moving between z-levels. (Decreases the chance of a dwarf getting himself stuck on a z-level) I just learned this digging out my first new fortress, and had a HELL of a time getting my dwarves out of the main stairway, when they dug ahead of the design and left unfinished pieces, trapping them. Now I have all these ugly staircases and ramps going all over the place. --Kydo 07:12, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

:Is this a feature or a bug? [[User:Daniel|Daniel]] 03:17, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

::Preeeety sure it's a bug, considering the update seems to have reversed it. --Kydo 04:12, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

==Construct Staircases from Above==
I heard that Toady was going to allow construction of stairs down into open space, such as for climbing down into a cavern through the roof... is that what ended up happening?--[[Special:Contributions/18.85.4.150|18.85.4.150]] 03:07, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
:Yes. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:09, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

==Movement on Stairs==
Does it take the same amount of times for a dwarf to travel up a z level using stairs/ramps as it does for him to move horizontally? If so then it makes much more sense to build across z levels for traffic alleviation purposes.[[User:Rembrandtq|Rembrandtq]] 22:56, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
:Stairs cost one "move" to go up or down. Ramps cost one "move" to go from "on the ramp" to "at the top of the ramp". So a dwarf crossing a ramp will move two spaces for the price of one - but not necessarily in the right direction.
:As to the rest of your comment, I don't understand. Are you trying to say that using '''multiple''' z-levels is good, or using a '''single''' z-level is good? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 08:08, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Health care

2010-12-21T02:17:50Z

DeMatt: /* Can you run a hospital with no water? */ No.

== Bugs fixed in the current version ==

Just because it was true a version ago doesn't mean it's true now. Here are some bygone issues of Dwarven Healthcare:

*<s> People have reported mixed results with bandaging wounds.</s> ''Fix listed: {{version|0.31.04}} {{bug|474}}''.
*<s> Surgery will never complete if the Surgeon cannot lift his patient.</s> ''Fix listed: {{version|0.31.07}} {{bug|318}}''.
* <s>Patients requiring traction benches will never use them.</s> ''Fix listed: {{version|0.31.07}} {{bug|1244}}''.
* <s>Some wounds may heal before treatment, preventing the surgery job from completing, making your dwarf invalid forever.</s> ''Fix listed: {{version|0.31.04}} {{bug|168}}''.
* <s>Traction bench is broken.</s> ''Fix listed: {{version|0.31.08}} {{bug|1244}}''
* <s>Bone setting is broken.</s> ''Fix listed: {{version|0.31.08}} {{bug|1244}}''
* <s>Wounded dwarves in hospital but not in beds die of thirst</s> ''Fix listed: {{version|0.31.08}} {{bug|1035}}''

== Rest to death ==

Be aware that once you have a hospital zone defined - all your injured dwarves will immediately run there at top speed and start to "Rest" there. "Rest" job can not be interrupted by any other job because a resting dwarf gains "unconscious" state. If you have no uninjured dwarves to bring food and water all patients will eventually get thirsty and dehydrate to death. Insanity breaks the "rest" job and the mad dwarf will wake up and wander around but it isn't helping.

If all your dwarves are injured to some extent - don't designate hospital zones.

:Not sure if this is still an issue. But if it is, a workaround I've used in the past is to deconstruct the bed the Unconscious dwarf is on. This will wake them up and hopefully convince them to go seek food/drink.--[[User:EvilGrin|EvilGrin]] 20:06, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

== Starving to death in the hospital? ==

I had a few injured dwarves; they ended up starving to death in the hospital while a surgeon tried to perform surgery. Do I need to put food stockpiles in the hospital? Does it need a well? --[[User:Bombcar|Bombcar]] 16:46, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:Were all your other dwarves busy? As "bring food/water to injured" is like a well job and will only occur when no other order is deemed more important.[[User:Kenji 03|Kenji 03]] 11:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

:: There was a bug. See "Wounded dwarves in hospital but not in beds die of thirst" at {{Bug:1035}}. The dwarves were dying because without a "Bed" they were not hitting the "Rest" state and the dwarves were never brought food.--[[User:Falldog|Falldog]] 01:42, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

== Splints, crutches and buckets no longer stored ==

I had a hospital zone with everything stored but plaster. I removed all the containers and took away the hospital zone. Then I made the zone again, put all the containers back. Those three items didn't come back. I replaced the hospital zone and it's still not stocking them again. [[User:Richards|Richards]] 12:16, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
== Nearby pond/pool of water ==

I think it's very important to make note that a pond or pool be located inside or at least in a room adjacent to the hospital. See my user page if you want details, but the basics is that doctors (and possibly other dwarves) will run to the nearest water source to clean an injured/resting dwarf if they're dirty/muddy/bloody/whatever. The problem is both sieges and distance. During a siege, your doctor's going to get killed, plain and simple. Yeah, other dwarves will get killed bringing water to dwarves, too, so it's important anyway. Another thing is distance. Say you have a bloody dwarf with a badly dented chest, and another dwarf with a mangled, broken head gushing blood. For whatever reason, your doctor decides to diagnose Urist McDentedChest first. The next course of action is cleaning. Your doctor then grabs the nearest bucket from your hospital coffers, runs up the stairs to the nearest murky pool, brook, or river and halfway back to the fortress gate, UristMcGushingBloodOutHisHeadHemorrhage bleeds to death.

On another note, dwarves do seem to clot very well now compared to old 40d. UristMcGushingHead in my fort has stopped bleeding, and even gone from extreme pain to faint to pale, and now he's back to only fainting, but if you go into battle with multiple wounded dwarves, you're going to have your doctors making multiple runs outside. Inside water needs to be made an important point. With the irrigation technique required at the moment, it shouldn't be too hard to explain since a similar technique is used. --[[User:Ryun|Ryun]] 21:51, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Would a well suffice?

::It should, but I have not yet gotten to the point of making a well so I can't say I've tested it. With the abundance of underground pools, it shouldn't be difficult to make. I had suggested a pool initially because they would be easy to set up (except a little difficult to get full) for a new fort. I assume they should, anyhow. Once I bend my head around the technique of getting down to those pools multiple z-levels below, I'll test it.

::After several stupid mining errors ("Let's use the channel ramps to mine instead of digging out the topmost staircase and get stuck forever!") it appears that wells do indeed work for supplying dwarves water. However, I would like a recommendation that the hospital is put on the z-level as closest as possible to an underground pool if that is the water source. Dwarves take a fairly long time to get water when the distance the bucket must travel exceeds greater than 3 z-levels. Prep with multiple wells as well, of course, especially if you must place the well a long distance from the water source.--[[User:Ryun|Ryun]] 22:03, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

::I chose to run stream water down to my hospital. I channeled out a cistern one level deeper than the hospital level, connected ''diagonally'' to a shaft that ran to the stream. The [[DF2010:Pressure#Diagonal_Flow|diagonal connection]] kills the water pressure. I crossed my fingers, channeled out the last tile connecting the shaft to the stream, and it worked perfectly, so I permitted use of the door to the cistern. (I've not flooded a fort since the Second Magma Incident of 2007.) —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 06:11, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

:::A well works fine. Sadly my dwarves don't use my bewdiful balineae right across from the hospital to fill buckets. Maybe because of all the soap in the water. (Okay, I'll be honest, never seen a dwarf with soap there, but they do get nice thoughts from 'having a bath') --[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] 20:27, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

::::A well works for cleaning patients and giving them water, but if Urist McBonedoctor needs water for plaster casts, he'll stand by the well with an empty bucket and do nothing. This happened in v0.31.10 at a well inside the hospital and at a well outside the hospital.

:::::My well goes 14 z-levels down, but channeling a single tile to designate pond keeps it filled. It does get contaminated with mud, but no patients have died of infections. Every dwarf in the upper fort still uses it to get clean, and gets a happy bath thought.[[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 13:30, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== Traction bench bug? ==

My medical dwarves seem unable to move patients onto the traction bench. I've seen mine spend most of a year on "Place In Traction", standing over the victim, not accomplishing anything. --[[User:DarthCloakedDwarf|DarthCloakedDwarf]] 05:09, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
:I cannot confirm, for I have not even seen any of my hospital workers (with surgery enabled) use the things, and all the wounded recover just fine, regardless. --[[User:Bronzebeard|Bronzebeard]] 00:11, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
::i had the same "place on traction bench" problem; my doctor was stood over the patient for what seemed like an eternity with that job description, but nothing was happening. as he started to starve himself, i removed the traction bench and he went to get some grub. i then tried the bench in a different position (away from any walls), but that didnt work either; had the same job, both in the same positions, but nothing was happening... i've ended up just scrapping the traction bench altogether, and have had no problems since :]--[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 02:20, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

::: If playing on a Save made prior to .08 remove every traction bench and every table, everywhere on the map. This will remove the medical dwarves from the stalled loop that happens when they are unable to lift a patient and carry him to surgery. As of .08, the surgeons will be able to carry new patients if they are not already stuck in the loop. --[[User:Falldog|Falldog]] 04:28, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== * Dwarves without a depot will steal hospital items and store them once a trade caravan arrives. ==

what does this mean?

:I guess it refers to the more general bug of dwarves not respecting property of caravans in some situations; supposedly they will steal food and booze if there's none in the fortress piles and they r hungry. So in this case they try to fulfill the thread, cloth and so on requests, ordered in the hospital H menu. Haven't encountered this myself though. --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.18.240|92.202.18.240]] 20:33, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

::I've seen it happen with dwarves who ''do'' have a valid depot. As soon as I opened the gates to let the caravan in, they stole everything the hospital needed from the caravan. [[Special:Contributions/64.255.180.66|64.255.180.66]] 02:23, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

== Surgery bugged? ==

It worked fine for me: it took a heckuva long time because my surgeon was incompetent; several surgery jobs and some ancillary damage later, rediagnosis - no more surgery required! So it looks like a bad surgeon will take lots of attempts to get there but will eventually succeed. [[User:Soundandfury|soundandfury]] 22:55, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

=== Surgery Workaround Suggestions ===

* if a dwarf is left lying on a table due to interrupted surgery, and is not 'resting' (i.e. is hungry or thirsty) but has not been moved back to bed, it may be necessary to destroy the bed the dwarf had been resting in. This will cause someone to recover him to a new hospital bed.

* if a doctor keeps attempting surgery on a table then moving the patient without doing anything, remove ALL tables and force the surgery in a bed, seems to be an issue with the Surgery Cancelled: Patient is Not Resting – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:27.33.150.75|27.33.150.75]]

== Hospital beds ==
I had a soldier who required suturing and since suturing is bugged, he never healed. Despite doing his duty and fighting, he kept returning to the hospital, showing rest instead of sleep, racking up bad thoughts from not being in his room and bed and possibly didn't even eat or drink, only getting what others brought him. So I thought, meh, remove the beds. this made him sleep on the floor in the hospital. So eventually I removed the hospital and in no time he is back to ecstatic, sleeping in his room, eating in the hall, making new friends, taking a bath. His wound and the suture and dressing requests are still there and are performed (to no avail) in his room.

My recommendation for now (31.04 should fix some hospital bugs): Don't have a hospital and first check if doctors work fine without it. --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.10.116|92.202.10.116]]

=='Clean Patient'==
What labour relates to this? ..awh, he just died of infection.. but for future use, does anyone know? is it an automatic part of the diagnosis progress, done by the diagnostician? is it done by anyone with a healthcare skill? and can we have the answer on the page, please?--[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 19:40, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
: It makes sense that wound dressing wound be part of this, but you'd have to check, it might just be cleaning skill. Ya need soap btw. [[Special:Contributions/71.134.230.146|71.134.230.146]] 04:55, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
::'need' is such a false word. it's not 'need'-ed. it just helps fight infection, so i'm told. i still havent made any, though :p nor plan on it. ^-^ and i think it's part of the diagnosis progress, but i've not had much injury of late, and i only have one specialized doctor with all the relative labours enabled, so my guess is as good as anyone's ^-^ i shall change some labours during the next megabeast attack and try to pin it to one of them (or all of them?)--[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 02:27, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

== Two dwarves in one bed? ==

I was trying to ignore all the injured dwarves in my fortress for awhile, but it wasn't doing to well for me, so i opened a hospital. then 2 dwarves immediately went (as patients)and started resting in the same bed. what the deuce? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Dudemcman|Dudemcman]]
: At a loose guess, they both detected the same bed at the same time, and didn't detect each other heading for it.
: Were the two dwarves married to each other, or romantically involved? 21:37, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
--[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 19:11, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

== Bug: overlapping office with hospital zone prevents bag/chest filling ==

I had a hospital zone with 10 chests, and my dwarves would not put anything in them- cloth, thread, splints, etc.
This was because my Chief Medical Dwarf's office overlapped the hospital. Once I deconstructed his office chair, dwarves came to fill the hospital chests with supplies.--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 14:03, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

== Single hospital versus multiple hospitals ==

So... after I've gotten the hang of actually building a hospital, I've been wondering. Can multiple dwarves work in the same hospital simultaneously, so you can store all the supplies in one central location? Or is it better for efficiency to have several small but fully-equipped hospitals, so that each hospital can have a doctor working in it? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 19:14, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:Well, after watching two dwarves get simultaneously patched up in the same mini-hospital (ignoring the others), I'm fairly sure that multiple hospitals offer no benefit over singletons. Besides being able to locate them in different spots, that is. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 23:46, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

== Which medical skills affect outcome? ==

Do we know whether skill levels at wound dressing, suturing, surgery, etc. affect the chance of a successful outcome? The articles on these skills didn't mention. I think I remember Toady's devlog talking about dabbling surgeons being bad at surgery? -- [[User:Creidieki|Creidieki]] 15:59, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

== Whats the deal with rot? ==

In the latest version .10 I've been pretty satisfied with healthcare; seems far more efficient and I even saw a cast get applied once (still won't show up in hospital information though);
however, my surgeons seem incapable of dealing with rot. One of my militia commanders has a rotten lower arm from a forgotten beast attack, and every time my accomplished surgeon performs surgery he then "excises rotten tissue"; and when that is completed I can see what was listed as "advanced rot" is now "minor rot". However the wounded dwarf then requires another diagnosis and while my surgeon continues surgery the rot advances to moderate then back to advanced. At which point the surgeon excises rotten tissue and the loops begins anew. I thought it kinda useful for training up my surgeon, but really wtf is going on? Looks like I have to wall off another hospital patient so they can die suffering and save my doctors time and all my supplies of soap (they re-clean the patient after every tissue excision).

== How do I get rot off of my adventurer? ==
The same way you perform surgery on yourself in the real world. You don't. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 14:18, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

== How do I get my doctor to apply a cast? ==
If your doctor is stuck trying to fill a bucket with water while applying cast you can use the following workaround.
# Create a pond zone
# Allow a dwarf to fill a bucket with water
# Forbid the filled bucket and remove the pond
# Claim the bucket
# Forbid and reclaim the bucket the doctor is using

The doctor should now return the cloth and plaster to a stockpile and restart the apply cast job; this time using the bucket filled with water. Tested in v0.31.12. --[[User:Kaustic|Kaustic]] 13:13, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

=== Slightly different method ===

Almost the same as above.

* Make the pit two tiles deep.
* Build a well on top of the pit.
* Make a pump continuously pump 7/7 water from the lower tile of the pit into the upper part of the pit. (waterwheel + pump = perpetual motion) NOTE: not strictly needed, a constant water input and a constant drain will suffice in any way, but that's the easiest one.
* Once every few minutes, the water level will drop below 7/7 and a dwarf will be assigned to "fill pond" before the water level returns to 7/7. The dwarf will take a bucket of water to the well, and drop it, since the well is already full.
* IF this bucket is the nearest bucket available to the hospital, the next time the bone doctor requires one, he will take this one.
* ELSE you will still have to forbid the bone doctor's empty bucket.

Critical points:
* It is currently unclear what factors in the chance of getting a dwarf to fill the invalid pond. For me it happens once every few minutes, which is not enough when you have many broken dwarves.

== Infection can be healed ==
Should it be mentioned in the article that infected wounds can actually heal? One of my dwarves had both upper legs broken and smashed open. They became infected short time later. After a quarter year, the infections vanished. --[[User:Blur|Blur]] 21:31, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

I too can confirm that I have had a dwarf heal from infected wounds. This dwarf had 2 smashed bones which were cleaned with water then set, and about a month after he got out of bed he was completely healed.
[[User:UberNube|UberNube]] 13:29, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

== "Forbidden" Bolts not being removed from injured dwarves bodies? ==

OK, please forgive me for asking what may just be a newb question. I just realized (after 2 game years) that one of my axedwarfs wasn't healing because the bolts that had shot him were never removed because, apparently, they were forbidden thanks to the default forbidding of ammo after it has been shot. Is this a new phenomenon, or just something I never thought of before... --[[Special:Contributions/98.185.254.172|98.185.254.172]] 00:13, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
:It was like that in 40d as well. The typical solution is to go into the dwarf's inventory, and un-forbid the bolt and mark it for Dumping. Someone should come along to dump the bolt then (assuming you have an active dump zone somewhere, and the refuse labors enabled), which will allow the wound to properly heal.

==Bit too expensive sutures?==
After a heated battle with a forgotten beast, one of my dwarves got wounded perhaps everywhere in his body. Checking his treatment history, I noticed that the doctors were using ADAMANTITE sutures. I'd rather go for some less-important material, so is there any way to select what kind of sutures are used? --[[User:Aavemursu|Aavemursu]]
:I think if you put the container with the casts on a stockpile you can view the contents and then dump the adamantine casts. Not a pretty fix but it should work.--[[Special:Contributions/71.59.132.217|71.59.132.217]] 14:55, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== medical officer ==

The chief isn't the only one who can diagnose for treatment, I have two other doctors with diagnosis job enabled, and they seem to screw off less often so they tend to be the ones to do it. It looks like the position only enables the health overview in z-menus. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 03:21, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== Order of medicine ==

I've finally had my first injury in DF2010, after about 5 years: a broken foot, and a broken rib. The diagnosis set up requirements for suture, bone setting, wound dressing and immobilization, so I made sure all the appropriate doctors were on call for the job.

It appears that the jobs are scheduled strictly in the order they appear in the {{l|health screen}}, from left to right: suture, then bone-setting, then wound dressing (twice), then the plaster cast. Now that all those jobs are done, I guess someone will eventually get around to addressing the infection that set in during all that. Jobs to give water and food were interspersed as needed, and I suspect the medical jobs were deferred at those times.

If others can confirm this strict order, I think it'd be useful info for the article. [[User:Hv|Hv]] 09:00, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

== Which medical skills produce better results when higher? ==

For example
* Diagnosis (Diagnostician) This skill is used at the start of the treatment of every wounded; used a lot and also needed by your chief medical dwarf
* Wound Dressing (Wound Dresser) This is also used pretty often; any wound seems to need it
* Suturing (Suturer) Fairly common; most open wounds (from cutting) seem to need it?
* Surgery (Surgeon) Somewhat less common; amongst others, wounds to organs seem to require it
* Setting Bones (Bone Doctor) This is obviously needed for broken bones, but perhaps not for all?

Does a higher diagnosis skill affect the actual diagnosis? Or speed of it?
What does a higher wound dressing skill do?
And so on. If you're making a starting dwarf a doctor, what skills does he actually need? Is he just as effective if he's a novice in all skills?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 03:26, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Bad surgery skill can kill the patient with additional blood loss. Other skills seem to only affect the speed for now. (A dwarf with 20 medium wounds may very well die waiting for 20 separate successive "suture" jobs and of 5 simultaneously wounded dwarfs 1 will not get diagnosed in time.) My dabbling doctors repaired quite a number of nasty compound fractures and the like with total patient recovery where nerves were not touched. No medical skill can produce a masterwork patient.--[[User:Another|Another]] 14:32, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

== Can you run a hospital with no water? ==

Can you run a hospital with no water? It seems like the dwarfs just go there and die of dehydration. No water, no hospital? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:220.253.94.158|220.253.94.158]]
:No water means dwarves can't provide drinks to thirsty invalids (or prisoners). No water means doctors can't clean their patients. No water means doctors can't make casts (not that they realistically CAN right now). So that's correct - no water, no hospital. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 02:17, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Burrow

2010-12-19T06:32:31Z

DeMatt: Cleanup. A couple answers.

==Cleanup==
Pathfinding. What is it doing here? I cleaned up the last bit about 'digging extends burrows.' It doesn't, but I get what the original writer was trying to convey: burrow residents can only mine inside their burrow, burrows can extend past currently dug-out areas and into solid rock, which can then be mined by residents, up to the limits of that burrow. Also, I'm creating a section for "uses for burrows." Of course, there is the civilian alert, we should explain that here. Then there is the current single piece of advice: restricting craftsdwarfs to certain workshops/stockpiles. But there are many more uses for burrows than that. Getting your trader to the depot. Workaround for the nobles bug. Setting up little hidey holes for outdoor workers and getting them into one when the gobbos attack. Urist McSwitchPuller. Any other things? [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 23:25, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

==Questions==
I've created a burrow, essentially the inside of my fortress. I added all of my civilians to the burrow. They now all stay in the burrow. The only problem is, I can't figure how to get dwarves to ignore the burrow. Essentially what I want is be able to create an All Inside alert, and while its not on for dwarves to be able to go anywhere. How do I do this? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:99.96.222.115|99.96.222.115]]
* Answer: Assign NO dwarves to the burrow, assign the burrow to the alert, and when you need your civilians to stay inside, change the Civilian Alert to the alert with the burrow ({{k|m}}, {{k|a}}, highlight alert name, {{k|Enter}}). --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 06:32, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
How do I restrict civilian dwarves to a specific burrow? --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 23:47, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
* Answer: When civilians are added to a burrow [w][c][enter] they are automatically restricted to the burrow's boundaries. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 09:00, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
* Answer: You can also restrict civilians to a burrow with an alert state. An active alert specifying a burrow will direct all non-military dwarves to go to that burrow. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 15:24, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
::How do I set civilians to an alert state?--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 15:05, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
::: Define a burrow. Go to the military screen. Go to the alerts screen. Highlight Active/Training (the alert state you want to add the burrow to) and then select the burrow from the list on the right. Now the Active/Training alert state includes a burrow that restricts only civilians, and only when the civilian alert state is set. To do so, simply highlight the alert you want and press enter. To un-restrict civilians, select the 'Inactive' alert state and hit enter. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]]

If I add a dwarf to a burrow, will he starve when no food is available in that burrow? -Xeiki
* Answer: No. He will head outside the burrow to look for food or drink. [[Special:Contributions/216.110.94.227|216.110.94.227]] 17:50, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
*Nota Bene: He will not be choosy, though. If only water is available in his burrow, he will drink it, possibly impairing his work ability from lack of alchohol. Dwarves will also leave burrows to sleep. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 19:33, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

How do I revert to the old military system?

*Answer: You play 40d. Sorry. (Just learn to adapt, the new one is actually pretty cool.) --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 19:33, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Will a dwarf remain injured, or will he path to a hospital if injured regardless of burrow location? [[Special:Contributions/97.103.188.15|97.103.188.15]] 01:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

How do I restrict only animals to a certain burrow? [[User:Richards|Richards]] 04:38, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

* Answer: Animals ignore burrow's, you can't restrict them. They do like meeting areas, cages, and chains though. Or just i -> Pit them into holding room with no exits. --[[User:Altaree|Altaree]] 14:23, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Will dwarves cross non burrow territory if two parts of the same burrow aren't connected?
If I make a travel burrow containing all the halls/main stair ways, a mason's burrow, and a stone stockpile burrow. Then assign the masons to all three. Will the dwarves take from one burrow, travel through another, and work in the third? (I need a dwarftherapist for burrows...) --[[User:Altaree|Altaree]] 14:23, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
:Yes to the first, only coincidentally ("the burrow covers where they travel", not "they travel within the burrow") to the second. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 06:32, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Digging into walls does not expand the burrow into it as expected. It only does this if you already selected the non-dug out space to be part of the burrow. So it's like an invisible part of the burrow. So, for example, if you selected the entire z-level as a burrow, then everything you dig out would become part of that burrow also. But if you use the mouse to only select a single room to be part of a burrow, digging one or two spaces might be added to the burrow but any further will not.--[[User:Lemunde|Lemunde]] 14:13, August 21 2010 (EST)
: I find that they stop acting as if there is invisible burrow after a bit. Is this common or am I somehow deselecting? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:99.66.78.121|99.66.78.121]]
:: The end of the "invisible burrow" would be the end of where you previously defined the burrow. Define it ten squares deeper into the unknown, and your burrow-restricted miners will dig out those ten squares. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 06:32, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

'''How do I make haulers work with burrows?''' If I have a hauler assigned to a burrow with a stockpile in it accepting i.e logs, and there happens to be logs outside the burrow, he will attempt to do haul the outside logs into the burrow, only to realize it is inaccessible and cancel the job. Over and over and over. Leading to mass cancellation spam and dwarves sitting in one spot trying to do the same failing job repeatedly. --[[User:Hulbral|Hulbral]] 17:07, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
: Define burrows covering everywhere the haulers might need to work. Forbid everything not inside a burrow. Unassign your haulers from the burrows. Why are your haulers assigned to burrows, anyways? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 06:32, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

==Pathfinding==
with burrows, and many other game features things often don't quite do what they're supposed to do. There are many open threads about pathfinding issues on the bug tracker right now, so far there doesn't seem to much in the way of clear answers as to what exactly is going on. One tactic that does seem to at least temporarily fix many pathing problems is to save, close the game completely, and reload your save. This is believed to be because of some sort of caching behavior. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 15:24, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:Locking and unlocking a door also fixes pathing. Changing the map like this seems to force the connectivity map to recalculate. [[User:Vattic|Vattic]] 22:45, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
::The pathing problems were fixed in 0.31.03 [[User:Immibis|Immibis]] 07:52, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Does the pathfinding section belong in the Burrow page, or should it have its own? --[[User:HammerDave|HammerDave]] 16:39, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

== Dwarves path out of burrow ==

I've noticed quite a few times during the last siege a potential pitfall in using the burrow system. I all my civilians assigned to a large burrow covering most of my fortress. I had dwarves take hauling jobs for items in another part of the fortress, but in the course of going there, they took a path that led them outside their assigned burrow. I made a mistake in that I didn't realize that the only path they had available was through a dangerous area, its possible they would have not gone outside if another but possibly longer path had been available. -[[Special:Contributions/99.68.98.63|99.68.98.63]] 18:26, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, if the longer, safe path was part of the burrow and the shorter one wasn't. [[User:Speed112|Speed112]] 22:00, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
::No. Dwarves ignore burrows for pathfinding purposes. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 06:32, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

== Possible Bug ==

I just wanted to see if anyone else has seen this... I was recently trying out the burrow system. After I assigned civilians to my burrow, they started tripping all the weapon traps I had set. Also, for some reason, they all ended up outside. Has anyone else had this problem?
Edit: Upon further inspection, a fair number of dwarves managed to get out of my completely sealed fort. I went to great lengths to make certain that there was no way in or out unless I activated a series of bridges. all of these were still in their raised/uncrossable positions. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:173.67.14.124|173.67.14.124]]

== Define only rooms, or need to define pathing/stairs? ==

The big question in that article that isn't covered is the most basic.. when you're defining/using burrows, do you need to define the pathing between the blocks you select, or will the AI pathfind between them? Second point, if you DO define a route (to prevent dangerous pathfinding) will they use the route or pathfind outside of it if there is a 'shorter route'? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Pathaugen|Pathaugen]]
: No. Dwarves can and will pathfind between unconnected, or connected, segments of burrow. They won't keep their path within a burrow even if it is the shortest path, unless it happens to be the path they'd pick anyways.
: That said, I define "stairs and accessways" as a separate burrow anyways, so my dwarves can perform jobs within them while my fortress is buttoned up (I only use burrows for the "restrict to fort" capability). Also note that [[DF2010:Note#Patrol Routes|routes]] are something different - they're for your military - just in case you meant actual "routes-following-Notes" routes and not just the word. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 21:33, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

:: So bottom line.. can't trust burrows to deliver ammo/food/drinks to remote stocks because they may path into danger? Seems strange.. [[User:Pathaugen|Pathaugen]] 05:15, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::: No, you can't use burrows to guide your dwarves. They merely restrict what the dwarf looks for, rather than how he sets about getting to it. If you want to avoid fixed dangers, you can use the [[Traffic]] designations - set your preferred path as a High-traffic area, and place Low- or Restricted-traffic areas around it to further encourage the dwarves to stay on the path. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 11:40, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Metal

2010-12-19T05:39:34Z

DeMatt: /* Elven Wood Weapons and Armor */ Not as good as metal - not even copper.

== Field Observations ==

It seems true that materials can't cut anything "tougher" than them. Fights between my small iron-armoured military and Goblins last for ages, since my iron axes mostly bounce off the Goblins' iron armour and the Goblins' copper & silver weapons can't get through my iron armour. Iron pikes have penetrated iron armour, and are th weapons that most consistently do so (logical, since the highest force is being applied in one place). IRON ARMOUR IS NOW INCREDIBLY USEFUL.

Also, on a more theoretical note, the higher impact elasticity and shear elasticity of stel will be counteracted by much higher fracture toughness/strength. Having a dent put in your breastplate that bruises you is much better than having your breastplate fractured and getting a pike in the ribs.--[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 13:32, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

----

Despite having copper, bismuth, and tin, I can't seem to make bismuth bronze. Despite having copper, gold, and silver I can't seem to make black bronze - are these broken or merely different? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:33, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
:Nevermind, my smelters were slower than I thought, and they'd only smelted 1 copper total so far. *cracks whip* get back to work you lazy bums! --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:01, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

----

''Impact elasticity: Used for blunt-force combat; lower is better. This is the raw value.''
:How sure are we about this? It seems to contradict: [[DF2010:Release_information|"Force from blunt weapons can transcend layers. For instance, a hammer can bruise the skin while breaking the bone underneath. As such, plate armor's benefits are generally ignored by blunt attacks, and leather armor would prove to be more effective." ]] Leather as a material has a Impact Elasticity of 5000 meaning, I think, that it is much more elastic... --[[Special:Contributions/68.117.74.40|68.117.74.40]] 14:15, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

::The Impact Elasticity number is based on the real life bulk modulus. The higher the number the greater the pressure that is needed to compress a material a given volume, that is it is the resistance to compressibility. Intuitively, we would think that we would want a higher rather than lower number for something like a war hammer or maul so they act less like a rubber mallet and more like a hammer. However, we don't know exactly how Impact Elasticity is used and unless we do we can't draw any conclusions about it. It would seem a little odd if it is a critical factor in a weapon as in real life it is rarely used except in gas equations as the effect is generally small for solids. Usually about 1% or less at yield strength for the metals in DF. EDIT: Just to be clear, impact elasticity shares an inverse like relationship with bulk modulus so lower "should be" better.--[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 04:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

:::I think this is more a question of how accurate the quote from the release info page is -- which is oriented towards how effectively armor can resist/absorb blunt damage before it effects the wearer. The quote suggests that leather armor would be more effective than 'plate' (metal I suppose). Let's assume that's true. While we don't know how the actual combat calculations work we can observe values the calculations use. The impact values are said to be specific to blunt damage so it's a good bet where the value that makes leather better against blunt damage is. Comparing material templates between various armor capable metals and leather, the value that stands out the most is impact elasticity (all metals have the same impact fracture/yield >> leather, which makes sense as leather isn't as durable). Impact elasticity is 635 for iron with most other metals being in that ball park and it is actually 50000 for leather. Climbing out on the branches of the speculation tree, the hypothesis is ''greater elasticity reduces blunt damage directly or disrupts ability of blunt damage to transmit to multiple tissue layers''. Alas, a brief test of 50+ combats in the arena shows that one's dwarves might as well be naked when wearing leather against iron hammers/maces. Iron plate (and even mail as the dwarves had to wear shirts to keep their fragile, fragile upper arms in one piece) armor proved to be quite effective with almost every blow simply deflecting. So it seems that leather armor is not better than iron plate when it comes to blunt damage... at least in this specific case. --[[User:Deranged Imp|Deranged Imp]] 11:26, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

::::Unfortunately, much more testing is needed. There are four different elements of the game that are being tested. The wound system, the armor system, the weapon system, and the material system. We know that there are deficiencies in the wound system and severe imbalance in the weapon system so it stands to reason that the same is true of armor system so tests on the material system are hideously complicated. Suppose that the intent is for leather armor to act as an under-layer buffer with metal mail or plate as the over-layer, but for whatever reason the proportions in the armor raws are limiting the material effectiveness. Measuring the effectiveness of weapons in attacking and armor in defending is complicated because the only way to do that is by interpreting a wound system which doesn't always seem to reflect the extend of the damage done. Especially if the target has [NOPAIN], [NOSICK], and doesn't bleed. You can pretty much forget about it killing something if it doesn't bleed as that is seemingly the primary mode of death right now. Thankfully, arena mode makes tests like this MUCH easier to do than in prior versions. However, it still requires a lot of effort. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 13:06, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

== Material Value vs. Material Multiplier ==

Is there a reason it's Value instead of [[Item_value#Material_multipliers|Material Multiplier]]?
It seems a bit inconsistent to me.
[[User:Kiraen|Kiraen]] 06:42, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
'''Bold text'''

:I think this is a terminology question that might be more appropriate in the discussion page you linked. In fact, I am sure that is what this is. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 04:27, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

== Bronze is the new steel? ==

From the table, it looks like bronze is 'better' than steel for blunt weapons, and maybe almost as good for bladed ones? Am I reading this right? Can someone with more DF/Science knowledge make a chart for the rest of us that lists the metals from best to worst in terms of a) Bladed weapons, b) Blunt weapons, and c) Armor? That would be nice, because that chart now is informative, but not, er, helpful. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 17:24, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

:Well Mr. mysteriouspersonwhoforgotto[http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#Z signhisnamelikezoro], that seems like a reasonable request. I will see what I can do. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 17:09, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

::Whoops! Embarrassing. And thank you.

:::I put a table with guidelines for what is better for what. Unfortunately, in the case of blunt attacks, there is generally very little discernible difference between one metal and another. More testing needs to be conducted for finer granularity, I am afraid. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 02:57, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

::::Does anyone have an idea what materials are best for bolts now? They do piercing damage, so I suppose it is like cutting (steel rules), but the kinetic energy they have may be dependent on the density (the bigger is the mass the less is the impact of air friction and so on, he-he). --[[User:Snus-mumrik|Snus-mumrik]] 17:56, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

:::::Bolts and other missiles behave somewhat oddly. The mechanics behind them work on some interpretation of the kinetic energy formula, F=(m*v^2)/2, where the bow and wielder provide the potential energy that is converted to the kinetic energy of the missile in the form of velocity. The problem with this is, for something that weighs next to nothing like Adamantine, the velocity becomes unrealistically large(like approaching or exceeding the sound barrier) which breaks the assumption that friction is negligible. To prevent this from happening Toady put velocity limits in the raws for the missiles that prevent that assumptions from being broken. The end result is the best materials for missiles roughly follows the edge weapon scale with the exception of Adamantine which is dead last. I will see what I can do to the table to get it to reflect this. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 16:32, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

== grumble ==

It would be nice to have the option of making hammers or maces from rose gold, and to save a little fuel & labor by making bismuth bronze from 2 bronze + copper + bismuth. Oh, well. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:216.27.178.205|216.27.178.205]]
:1: Sign your comments ("<nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>"). 2: If you really want to, edit reaction_standard.txt and inorganic_metal.txt. 3: Platinum would be even better than rose gold, being denser ''and'' having much lower impact elasticity. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:35, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
: While you're at it, why not allow cutting nickel with brass to yield nickel silver, or other similar alloy "chain reactions"? Might make for an interesting micro-mod. --[[User:Onul Rigothzas|Onul Rigothzas]] 07:34, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

== Weapons grade metal chart ==

I updated the weapons grade metal chart and it's accompanying blurb to match the recent data zagibu recorded on the official forums. I left the previous blurb intact simply because the act of testing is very much a work in progress and not much is entirely settled yet.

== Relationship between density and impact/shear statistics ==

The mechanics implied in the Arena Testing section of {{L|Weapon}} do not seem to reflect the mechanics mentioned here. I'm referring specifically to the lauding of silver as an excellent blunt weapon metal. How does the density of a metal alter the impact/shear numbers listed above? -- [[User:hbernier|hbernier]] 13:55, 18 October 2010 (EST)
: Hmmm, {{L|Density}} seems to support the assertions of the Arena Testing section as well. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:hbernier|hbernier]]
:: For the real-world metals, at least, those are the real-world properties of the metals, converted into DF-specific units. So if you, or anybody, knows how "density" controls "impact yield" and so forth... then you've got a bright future ahead in the materials sciences industry.
:: As to how the combat calculations work out... I THINK that the impact stats are only slight modifiers, relative to density, when calculating blunt-force weapon attack. The impact stats are important on the blunt-force armor defense side. Edged weapons, I think, put less importance on density and more on the shear stats. And edged-force armor defense probably relies entirely on the shear stats - hence steel armor is better than anything but adamantine. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 20:19, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
:::One can add custom metals to the raws, conduct combat tests and determine effect and relative importance of all material properties. Like create "iron_impact_high" with 100 times higher impact yield or impact elasticity, "iron_impact_low" with 100 times lower and test it against normal iron for both weapons and armor. It seems like not that hard but definite and useful project.--[[User:Another|Another]] 21:25, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

== Material value changes ==
Did they nerf the heck out of black bronze's value? It used to have a much higher material value, as i recall. Which was nice, since it has a distinctive color, so it was fun to decorate nobles rooms with it.. sigh. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:31, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
:Why not take a look at the 40d version of this page and see for yourself that it hasn't changed? We kept the old pages in different namespaces for a reason... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:20, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Elven Wood Weapons and Armor ==
I didn't see any discussion of this elsewhere and this seems like the most appropriate place. Are elven wood weapons/armor worthless like the table would indicate or is there special elven magic that makes them not suck? [[User:Rembrandtq|Rembrandtq]] 22:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
: AFAIK (which actually isn't that far), elven wooden weapons are better than dwarven wooden training weapon equivalents. Elven wooden armor is, broadly speaking, equivalent to dwarven bone and shell armor. So to put it more succintly, no - it sucks. You're dwarves, forge proper metal gear instead of depending on PLANTS to shield you. :P --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 05:39, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Sparring

2010-12-19T05:35:52Z

DeMatt: Cleanup.

{{av}} {{Quality|Fine}} {{Expand Topic}}

== Introduction ==

'''Sparring''' is a form of (usually) non-lethal melee {{l|combat}}, led by the {{l|Militia Captain}} in charge of the respective {{l|squad}}, to train {{L|soldier}}s in their {{l|combat skill}}s in {{L|fortress mode}}. Sparring takes place at a {{L|barracks}}; off-duty soldiers will engage in training activities, such as {{l|observer|watching}} combat demonstrations and {{l|combat drills|individual training drills}} with other off-duty soldiers.

You cannot assign a soldier to sparring, but instead {{l|schedule}} his or her squad to train, in a manner similar to enabling civilian {{l|labor}}s. This is accomplished by opening the {{k|m}}{{l|military interface|ilitary screen}}. Open the {{k|a}}lerts panel, then assign the squad to Active/Training (or establish a more complex schedule of alerts). Now {{k|q}}uery the {{l|bed}}, {{l|weapon rack}}, and/or {{l|armor stand}} that you used to designate a barracks. Highlight which squad you wish to train and press {{k|t}}. A {{Tile|T|3:0:1}} should appear on the right side of the screen beside that squad's name. Now your squad is set to be training, and has a place to train in.

If a squad is set to Inactive Alert or has no scheduled order, and has a designated training barracks, members of the squad will occasionally engage in Individual Combat Drills, but will be primarily focused on their civilian lives. A squad set to the default Alert/Training alert level (or a more complicated schedule using the advanced calendar system) will predominantly train in their training barracks and occasionally engage in their civilian lives. A squad with active orders delivered through the squad menu will first carry out those orders, taking breaks to eat or sleep, but will not train.

You can assign individual squads to train in different areas, so when trouble strikes they are already nearby, equipped, and prepared for battle. If you have 3 entrances into your fort, instead of having a central training area, build a squad's barracks near each entrance. You could also have your {{l|Marksdwarf|marksdwarves}} spar in a nearby archery tower while your elite fighters train near the front hall, and your novices train somewhere safely under the eyes of an accomplished {{l|teacher}}.

== Equipment ==

When soldiers spar, they practice (and thereby gain experience) with whatever {{L|weapon}} and {{L|armor}} they have been assigned, including {{L|shield}}s. Thus, in order to train {{L|axedwarf|axedwarves}}, it is necessary to assign the recruits axes, and so forth with all other {{L|weapon}}s. The weapon you wish for them to spar with can be chosen through the {{K|m}}ilitary screen, and then the {{K|e}}quip selection.

== Injury ==
'''As of version 31.12 and later, it seems that dwarves cannot (or are very unlikely to) hurt each other while sparring.'''

During sparring soldiers can get {{l|wound}}ed, ranging from minor injuries to loss of ability. This cripples their training time (leading to death in real combat) or disables them from fighting at all. To avoid injury you can:

* '''Equip''' them with {{l|training weapon}}s. However, there are only training axes, swords, and spears. Wooden crossbows make safe substitutes for war hammers. Macedwarves will have to use real weaponry. However, during an {{l|ambush}}, it might be difficult to switch over to effective weapons. Therefore build your weapon {{l|stockpile}} or weapon racks close to the {{l|barracks}}.
* '''Equip''' them with armor; this lowers damage being received and allows them to train with their armor. However, it has been observed that training is less {{l|fun|spartan and dangerous}} than previous incarnations, and it seems that {{l|dwarf|dwarves}} are less likely to consider training to be a Mortal Kombat match.

Also note, {{l|Healthcare|healing}} injury caused by sparring is good {{l|experience}} for a new {{L|doctor}}.

==Scheduling training==
Many players make the mistake of assuming that the Active/Training {{L|scheduling#Alert_Levels|alert}} sets your squad to train year round. However this is not the case. Instead it simply fills a squads {{L|schedule}} with the priority to train. That is, your soldiers will put on their uniforms and grab their weapons but they may continue to do jobs outside the military. In order to make them actually train you must do the following after setting their alert to Active/Training (or by scheduling Train under the schedule screen).

#Designate a {{L|barracks}} from an item.
#Press {{k|q}} and highlight the item used to designate the barracks from.
#Select the squad you want to train in that particular barracks and press {{k|t}}. A {{Tile|T|3:0:1}} will appear beside the squads name in the menu.
#Multiple squads can be set to train in the same barracks. Whether or not this means they will train between squads is unknown{{verify}}.

Things to note: The default alert Active/Training requires 10 members of a squad to activate. This can be changed from the {{L|Scheduling}} menu. Dead squad members used to stay in the squad, but as of 31.12 they are removed upon death. At that point another member must be appointed or the minimum number required to train lowered to accommodate the new squad count.

== Optimal squad size ==

Only one sparring match can be going on in any one {{L|squad}}[http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=65154.msg1531967#msg1531967 source]{{verify}}, so to get the most sparring done make your squads size 3 with a minimum of 2.

== Training on Disarmed Prisoners ==
A somewhat less exploity and also very effective way of training your dwarves is letting them fight stripped prisoners while heavily armored and carrying training weapons themselves.

See {{L|Cage#Remotely_Opening_Cages|Remotely Opening Cages}} for more information.
== See also==

{{L|Military}}

{{L|Danger_room|Danger Room}}

{{Military FAQ}}

v0.31:Water wheel

2010-12-14T16:32:07Z

DeMatt: /* Construction */ Revised description of problem with gear-supported waterwheels.

{{AV}}
{{Quality|Exceptional}}
{{Machine_component|name=Water wheel|key=w
|construction=
* 3 {{L|Wood|Wood}}
|construction_job=
# {{L|Architecture|Architecture}}
# {{L|Carpenter|Carpenter}}
|power=Needs 10 power. Generates 100 power. Net gain of 90 power.
}}

A '''water wheel''' is a {{L|machine component}} that provides {{L|power}} via water {{L|flow}}. To build a water wheel, select {{key|b}}uild menu and choose {{key|M}}achine components. It requires 3 {{L|wood|wood}} and generates 90 net power, which can be used for operating a {{L|Screw pump|pump}} or {{L|mill}}. You can use {{L|axle|axles}} and {{L|Gear assembly|gears}} to access the power produced by a water wheel, or connect machinery like a {{L|Screw pump|pump}} or {{L|millstone}} directly.

Waterwheels do ''not'' work with waterfalls, nor in magma - it takes water that is flowing according to the DF use of the term.

''For a basic overview of how the different machine parts work and work together, see {{L|machinery}}.''

== Construction ==
The {{L|Building_designer|architecture}} and {{L|Carpenter|carpentry}} labors are needed for the construction.

A water wheel occupies 3 adjacent tiles (N-S or E-W axis, no diagonals). It is the color of the first wood selected for it, so you could build a red wheel with one piece of goblin-cap and two of fungiwood.

Although you can build a stable water wheel on solid ground, this isn't going to do you any good. For this reason, water wheels are almost exclusively built in a hanging state with gaps in the floor below. To do this, build the water wheel on the z level directly above a water tile. The tile where the wheel is built should be open space (you can channel out a tile if necessary). A gear assembly or horizontal axle built on an adjacent tile will be necessary to support the wheel. Do not hang it from a gear assembly you wish to control with a switch, as a disconnected gear assembly can't support anything and will cause the waterwheel to deconstruct when toggled.

{{L|Power}} is generated from a water wheel as long as it has {{L|flow}}ing water at a depth of 4/7 or greater under at least one of its tiles. The easiest way to achieve this is by placing the water wheel over a {{L|river}} or {{L|brook}}. With a brook you must first channel through the surface since brooks have a floor of sorts over them.

You can transport the power wherever it is needed via horizontal and vertical axles and gear assemblies. It is possible to support a waterwheel by building its center next to a preexisting water wheel's center.

==Designs==
'''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
○ = '''Millstone'''
+ = '''Floor'''
~ = '''Water'''
W = '''Water Wheel'''
* = '''Gear Assembly'''
═ = '''Axle'''

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Basic watermill design'''
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #07F; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #07F; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #333; padding: 0"|○
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #333; padding: 0"|*
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|═
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|═
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|═
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #7FF; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #07F; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|}
{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Dual watermill design'''
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #07F; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #07f; padding: 0"|~
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #07F; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #7FF; padding: 0"|~
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #333; padding: 0"|○
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #333; padding: 0"|*
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|═
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|═
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|═
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|W
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #07F; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #07F; padding: 0"|~
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|+
|style="color: #07F; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #07F; padding: 0"|~
|}
This is by no means the limit of water power from one location, depending on the width of your river/brook/channel you can stack many waterwheels side-by-side (really big assembles will need to be artificial as there's a limit to how wide the game created water flows get). Just remember to make sure there's a support structure in place before you place the next wheel.

== Perpetual motion ==

Due to the relatively low power draw of a {{L|screw pump}}, a ''self-powering'' assembly can be made with a water wheel that still leaves plenty of excess power for other uses. This is an {{L|exploit}} (violating basics principles of physics), and possibly a bug, but this is also Dwarf Fortress, so...

To get it working, you must start the pump manually.*

:''(* Exceptions are {{L|aquifer}}s, which can sometimes have naturally occurring {{L|flow}}. This is sometimes a good thing, because then a wheel simply works by itself - or a bad thing, if, for example, you want the wheel to '''not''' provide any power while you build a pump adjacent to it. It's not clear what causes an aquifer to have flow and then keep it - it's difficult to replicate reliably, and can be lost with additional {{L|channel}}ing, so designs will have to be adapted if such are found.)''

It is good to have a ready source of water to refill the machine, as water tends to escape and evaporate, and once the water falls below a certain level, the machine stops. Below an earlier level, the power supply becomes intermittent.

'''*REMEMBER TO BUILD AN ORTHOGONAL PUMP, HORIZONTAL AXLE OR GEAR ASSEMBLY BEFORE THE WATER WHEEL*'''

===Dwarven Water Reactor===
====Key====
:{{Raw Tile|║ ═ ╝ ╚ ╔ ╗ ╣ ╠ ╩ ╦ O|7:0:1}} = '''Wall'''
:{{Raw Tile|+|7:0:0}} = '''Floor'''
:{{Raw Tile|W|6:0:0}} = '''Water Wheel''' with floor underneath
:{{Raw Tile|W|6:1:0}} = '''Water Wheel''' with water underneath
:{{Raw Tile|≈|1:0:1}} = '''Water''' on current level
:{{Raw Tile|≈|3:0:1}} = '''Water''' on level below
:{{Raw Tile|X|2:0:0}} {{Raw Tile|X|2:0:1}} = '''Screw Pump''' drawing from south

This compact design, once started, produces 170 surplus power (less additional power train).

<div style="float:right; margin:2ex 20ex;"> 
{|
!'''Lower Level'''
!
!'''Upper Level'''
|-
|
{| style="border-spacing:0;"
|-
|{{RT|╔|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|═|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|╦|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|═|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|╗|7:0:1}}
|-
|{{RT|║|7:0:1}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{RT|║|7:0:1}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{RT|║|7:0:1}}
|-
|{{RT|║|7:0:1}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{RT|║|7:0:1}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{RT|║|7:0:1}}
|-
|{{RT|║|7:0:1}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{RT|O|7:0:1}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{RT|║|7:0:1}}
|-
|{{RT|╚|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|╗|7:0:1}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{RT|╔|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|╝|7:0:1}}
|-
|{{RTB|0:0:0}}
|{{RT|╚|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|═|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|╝|7:0:1}}
|{{RTB|0:0:0}}
|}

|

|
{| style="border-spacing:0;"
|-
|{{RT|╔|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|═|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|═|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|═|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|╗|7:0:1}}
|-
|{{RT|║|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|W|6:1:0}}
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|{{RT|W|6:1:0}}
|{{RT|║|7:0:1}}
|-
|{{RT|╝|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|W|6:1:0}}
|{{RT|X|2:0:0}}
|{{RT|W|6:1:0}}
|{{RT|╚|7:0:1}}
|-
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|{{RT|W|6:0:0}}
|{{RT|X|2:0:1}}
|{{RT|W|6:0:0}}
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|-
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|{{RT|≈|3:0:1}}
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|-
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|}
|}
</div>

Dig the V-shaped channel and fill it with water (either from an outside source or by designating it as a {{L|pond}}). Meanwhile, construct the pump, pumping from the South. Construct the two water wheels. Start the pump manually ( {{k|q}}, {{k|Enter}} ) - if there is enough water*, the "reactor" will start immediately and the pump operator will leave. The water from the north end of the pump will spill over the top-most floor tile, filling that to 7/7 and the two tiles east and west of it to ~5/7, but will not overflow back past the water wheel to the walkway area. Note that for the upper level, no southern walls are shown as none are needed.

*''(* Estimated minimum depth to prime the reactor is 3/7 to 4/7, though this is not guaranteed.)''
* The ideal amount of water in this design is apparently 63 units of water. In other words six tiles below in the V are full up to 7/7 and three more above are also full up to 7/7 which will generate reliable flow permanently without ever losing any of that water to evaporation. An easy way to do this is to simply leave your pond fill command on after the reactor activates. They will eventually fill it up to the optimal level and stop.

The reactor can be safely halted either by blocking the tile the pump draws water from or "overloading" the reactor (since drawing more power than the reactor supplies will stop the pump that keeps the cycle going until the load is reduced and the pump is manually restarted by dorf-power), More drastically, the reactor will obviously be halted by deconstructing the pump. Deconstructing one wheel will cause a flood (and almost immediately cancel any job order to deconstruct the other components), and deconstructing the pump will cause both wheels to collapse (unless they are attached to {{L|machinery}} outside them, not shown).

{{L|Power}} can routed up from the pump or off to the side from a wheel; the bottom of the pump is difficult to access without danger of water escaping. Routing power from a wheel is typically safe in practice, but it's not impossible for a small amount of water to escape the reactor if it is temporarily overfilled. Power can also be routed out of the reactor via a gear or horizontal axle over the pump's intake tile; while this does not interfere with the pump's operation or present a danger of flooding, it makes it more difficult to shut down the reactor. In either case, it's typically wise to place a {{L|gear assembly}} linked to a {{L|lever}} early in the power train in order to allow disconnecting the power at that point, as opposed to needing to halt the entire reactor to stop the power supply.

Expanded versions can produce more power, and can be added later with minimal advance planning; such extensibility is easily attainable by placing disengageable gears on either side of the two water wheels, then attaching minireactors at your leisure, or halting the original reactor by other means. Alternatively, it may be easier to simply produce a second reactor, then connect to the power train at another location.

''Note: If created in an aquifer, there is a chance that the channeled tiles will have a natural {{L|flow|water flow}} - this will cause the pump to start the moment the first wheel is finished, flooding the work area for the second.''

===Mini Water Reactor===

This even more compact design is quite similar to the original Dwarven Water Reactor, but can be used in tight spots that do not need more than 80 surplus power. This plan can also be considered an extension unit to the DWR, in that it can be added to one or the other side to provide an additional 80 power to the resulting power train. Safely constructing a mini reactor to add to a previously built reactor without potential flooding and/or loss of power is possible only if you first turn off the original reactor with floor hatches. Planning ahead is a much better option, so if you're going to need more than 170 power, build a larger reactor to start with.

As stated previously, the design below produces 80 surplus power (less additional power train).

{|
|'''Lower Level'''
|'''Upper Level'''
|-
|
{| style="border-spacing:0;"
|-
|{{RT|╔|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|═|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|╗|7:0:1}}
|{{RTB|0:0:0}}
|-
|{{RT|║|7:0:1}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{RT|║|7:0:1}}
|{{RTB|0:0:0}}
|-
|{{RT|║|7:0:1}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{RT|║|7:0:1}}
|{{RTB|0:0:0}}
|-
|{{RT|║|7:0:1}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{RT|╚|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|╗|7:0:1}}
|-
|{{RT|╚|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|╗|7:0:1}}
|{{H2O}}
|{{RT|║|7:0:1}}
|-
|{{RTB|0:0:0}}
|{{RT|╚|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|═|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|╝|7:0:1}}
|}

|
{| style="border-spacing:0;"
|-
|{{RT|╔|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|═|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|═|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|╗|7:0:1}}
|-
|{{RT|║|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|W|6:1:0}}
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|{{RT|║|7:0:1}}
|-
|{{RT|╝|7:0:1}}
|{{RT|W|6:1:0}}
|{{RT|X|2:0:0}}
|{{RT|╚|7:0:1}}
|-
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|{{RT|W|6:0:0}}
|{{RT|X|2:0:1}}
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|-
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|{{RT|≈|3:0:1}}
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|-
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|{{RT|+|7:0:0}}
|}
|}

Construction of the mini reactor follows the same order as for the DWR, though the channel is slightly different and only one water wheel is needed. If this is an addition to a full size reactor or set of reactors, all channels will need to be fairly full with water to start the reactor.

v0.31 Talk:Microcline

2010-12-14T16:24:30Z

DeMatt: Sections.

== Microcline magma-safe? ==
It seems to be magma safe as I have a fortress with a microcline door holding back the magma resevoir--[[User:Scout890|Scout890]] 22:02, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:That's because you haven't '''opened''' the door yet - tiles ''adjacent'' to magma only heat up to 10075, while tiles ''containing'' magma heat up all the way to 12000. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:57, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Cyan versus Blue ==
I think it's worth noting how disgusting microcline is. Surely I'm not the only person who thinks this? "You have struck microcline!" to me, brings only a sigh, as I send in the masons to cover this blight.. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:86.181.51.26|86.181.51.26]]
:But what if you like blue? [[User:Freya|Freya]] 08:11, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
::Oh, blue's nice. But, microcline isn't really blue.. It's cyan and cyan is UGLY! – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:86.181.51.26|86.181.51.26]]
:::So you like royal blue over sky-blue? Or are you a navy fan? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 16:24, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Bolt

2010-12-14T16:20:40Z

DeMatt: Magma forge. Note about masterwork.

{{quality|Fine|08:00, 22 May 2010 (UTC)}}{{buggy}}{{av}}

{{l|Ammunition}} for {{l|crossbow}}s. Can be made from {{l|wood}}, {{l|bone}}, or weapon-grade {{l|metal}}s.

Wooden and metal bolts produce a {{l|stack}} of 25 per {{l|log}} or {{l|bar}}.

Making bone bolts will take only one bone away from a stack and turn it into 5 bolts.

Wooden and bone bolts are made in a {{l|Craftsdwarf's workshop}}. Metal bolts are forged at a {{l|Metalsmith's forge}} or {{l|Magma forge}}.

==Masterwork Bolts==
As with other items, high-skill dwarves can make masterwork-{{l|Item quality|quality}} bolts. While they don't care if the bolts are fired and shatter on impact, they do get upset if a bolt gets carried off - say by a retreating enemy with the bolt stuck in him.

==Bugs==
Tests show that bone and wooden bolts are effective against most{{verify}} unarmored targets, like wildlife, but for various reasons are quite useless against some other creatures and armored targets.

The same goes for some metal bolts (silver,copper) with variations depending on the precise metal.needs more details

Additionally a bug often seems to prevent military from equipping bolts, then limiting the use of bolts to hunting and weapon traps. However, people have also reported successful equipping of bolts (and arrows).
-(One workaround is to remove the bolts assigned to hunters, it would seem that the first 100 bolts assigned to them gets precedence over the military...0.31.16)

Bone bolts are not advisable for weapon traps as only a stack of 5 will be stored per crossbow, making frequent restocking necessary.

It is largely unclear what of the above constitutes a bug and what is intended behaviour.

{{gamedata|[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BOLTS]
[NAME:bolt:bolts]
[CLASS:BOLT]
[SIZE:50]
[ATTACK:EDGE:100:2000:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:1000]
}}