Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.31 Talk:Advanced world generation

2011-03-06T22:27:04Z

Doctorzuber:

This page needs some grammar checking. I don't have enough experience with the latest version to correct it though. Is there a tag or template I should add for this type of error? --[[User:Altaree|Altaree]] 13:10, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

I cleaned up the Cavern Parameters section, based on some worldgen testing. Seems like some of the info was wrong, although it might just be referring to events later in the game - it was a little hard to parse. Still not sure what the z-levels section is supposed to mean, so I left it alone. --[[User:Runcible_spoon|Runcible_spoon]] 15:32, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

The options in the "z-levels" section seem to refer to how much rock there is between cavern features. See http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=20638.msg1135248#msg1135248. That said, I'm still unsure quite how the 'huge' underground is genned - modifying some of the default templates only ended up with ca 50 underground levels. More testing needed, evidently. --[[Special:Contributions/87.194.186.154|87.194.186.154]] 11:12, 5 May 2010 (UTC) BertieB
:D'oh! I was confused by the info on the page and thought there were only 5 possible levels for each z-level item, when on checking there are actually up to 100 possible. Smashing! --[[Special:Contributions/87.194.186.154|87.194.186.154]] 11:17, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
:This needs more testing, but I'm led to believe that the first option, LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1 affects in fact the number of layers between the last rock layer and the first cavern layer, ie. the height of the cavern. I bumped it up to 20 and ended up with a few ridiculously high caverns. --[[User:Alkarlosse|Alkarlosse]] 11:10, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

== Log Reject Reasons ==

Hi, how do I get a log of why each map was rejected during worldgen?--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 18:18, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I hope you've already found the answer to this, but just in-case anyone else comes along looking for the answer, the setting is in the "d_init.txt" file, the output is generated in "map_rejection_log.txt" in the main DF folder.--[[User:MadGreyOne|MadGreyOne]] 01:40, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

== Spoiler Hidden? You mean Spoiler Missing! ==

There are a couple of "Spoiler Hidden" tags in the Z Levels table, suggesting it was copied from a forum post without some of the important information. --[[User:Danaris|Danaris]] 17:54, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== Above Ground LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND ==

Changing this value to sth else than 15 (lower, higher) will result in unlimited number of rejects. Bug? [[Special:Contributions/213.134.175.225|213.134.175.225]] 07:32, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

== World Painter Parameters ==
Is anybody going to update the list of elevation/rainfall/drainage/etc necessary for the different terrain types to exist? If not can someone at least point me in the right direction so I can find this info in the raws or something? --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 22:27, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Iron

2011-03-05T20:32:13Z

Doctorzuber:

== Iron or bronze? ==

It says that bronze is superior to iron when it comes to combat, but I have conducted repeated tests with armor of both materials (using both blunt and edged weaponry) in the arena which show otherwise. Anyone care to show some evidence in support of this statement or should I edit it? --[[User:Eepkeep|Eepkeep]] 13:20, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

:Check out {{L|Armor}}, section "Materials". Apparently bronze was better up to version 0.31.11, whereas from 0.31.12 onwards, iron was better. Looks like this page is just out-of-date. Edit away! [[User:Bognor|Bognor]] 14:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

== Metals scarce in 0.31.19 ==
This isn't completely accurate. There is a horrible lack of variety in an embark, but what you do get you get in huge quantities. My current embark has an enormous amount of copper ore, plenty of gems, armloads of chalk and marble, and nothing else. Looking into this further using dfprospect and dfreveal shows the following pattern.

shallow/deep metal = one metal.
on a 2x2 embark this will be around 4000 ore. Without fail this means one and only one type of ore. Maybe it is copper, maybe it is iron, it could even be something weird like tin or nickel.

shallow/deep metals = two (or more?) metals.
on a 2x2 embark this will be around 1200 to 1300 units of ore for each ore. In my testing this always means two types of ore. I do however remain open to the possibility that it might sometimes mean three, but have thus far seen no example of this.

IMHO, 0.31.19 is a step in the right direction, but I would like to see a bit more variety. I miss seeing orthoclase,olivine,microcline,etc which seem to be quite rare now. I would also like to see a bit more variety. the current quantities are reasonable enough, but the lack of variety in materials is somewhat crippling. If we instead got 4000 of one ore plus say 500 each of a few others than this would be much more fun to play with. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 20:32, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

v0.31:Water

2011-03-05T02:05:43Z

Doctorzuber: /* Freezing */

{{av}}
{{Quality|Exceptional|19:08, 6 July 2010 (UTC)}}

'''Water''' is a fluid found all over the world. It {{l|flow|flows}} from mountain springs, forming the world's {{l|ocean}}s, {{l|lake}}s, {{l|river}}s, and {{l|brook}}s. Water falls as {{l|rain}} and {{l|snow}}, and freezes into {{l|ice}}. Water is home to a variety of {{l|aquatic creatures}}. Many creatures can {{l|Swimmer|swim}} in deep water. Air-breathing creatures that are submerged in water can {{l|Swimmer#Drowning|drown}} in it. Water comes in two varieties: '''freshwater''', which makes up almost all inland water, and '''saltwater''', which fills the seas. In this version, some brooks and murky pools can be saltwater even if the fortress site is partially mountainous. It is not known if this is a bug. To tell the difference, attempt to set up a drinking zone including some of the water in question. If there are zero tiles of water source available, the water is saltwater.

In the new system mud is now a {{l|contaminant}} which is created any time water covers an area. Any tiles that contain mud may be used for {{l|Agriculture|farming}}.

Water is displayed with the symbols {{Tile|≈|1:7:1}} and {{Tile|~|1:7:1}}, sometimes colored different blues, and white, showing ripples. Water can also take on other colors indicating {{l|contaminant|contaminants}} such as '''blood''', '''ichor''', or '''goo'''. (The game can be {{l|Technical tricks#The look of the game|configured}} to show the depth instead).

Dark-colored water symbols indicate the water is one {{l|Z-level}} below the camera level. Water has 7 depth levels per tile, with 1 being a shallow puddle, and 7 filling the tile completely. {{l|Dwarf|Dwarves}} can safely walk through water up to a depth of 4. Dwarves finding themselves in water at a depth of 5 or greater are at risk of drowning unless they are skilled at {{l|swimming}}.

==Evaporation==
Evaporation occurs when water or {{l|magma}} is at a depth of 1/7. Simply having 2/7 standing water is enough to prevent evaporation.

{{l|Murky pool|Murky pools}} are an exception. In '''hot''' or '''scorching''' environments a murky pool can evaporate even when it is completely full. Murky pools also generate water to simulate seasonal accumulation from rainfall. This sometimes makes it possible for a murky pool to replenish itself even when it has been completely drained.

==Freezing==
Any outdoor environment can freeze seasonally. With the updates to weather and seasonal changes many environments get cold enough to freeze in winter. When this happens any water that is exposed above ground will freeze. However water a single tile away that is in an underground tunnel will not freeze. When ice thaws it always leaves a 7/7 water tile regardless of how much water may have been present when the ice formed.

==Flow==
Water and {{l|magma}} are both {{l|flow|fluids}} which are constantly trying to '''{{l|flow}}''' into adjacent tiles until they have filled all available space or until they run out of fluid. Fluids technically move in 9 directions: down, and to the sides. Fluids cannot move diagonally up or down. Fluids at a depth of 1/7 no longer attempt to move unless they can move down. Fluids under {{l|pressure}} can appear to travel upward until the pressure equalizes, though in reality they are moving downward and/or sideways relative to their source.

If the flow is strong enough, it can move objects such as dwarfs, pets, stones, weapons or corpses.

Fluids in Dwarf Fortress acts like a fairly thick, viscous material. This makes it possible to do highly implausible things like {{l|pump}} out a dry hole in the middle of a {{l|river}} or {{l|ocean}}.

==Sourced Water==
Water that comes from {{l|river}}s, {{l|brook}}s, {{l|ocean}}s, {{l|aquifer}}s or springs is considered to be '''sourced water'''. Any sourced water is an endless supply of water that can never run dry, although it can freeze for part of the year in colder biomes.

When using sourced water you should strongly consider installing {{l|floodgate}}s and be aware of how {{l|pressure}} works or you could easily end up {{l|flood}}ing your fortress and having a lot more {{l|fun}} than anticipated.

==Salt Water==
Dwarves can not use salt water until it has been desalinated; while healthy dwarves will usually prefer to drink {{L|booze}}, they may resort to drinking water if they are forced to drink the same variety for too long, and wounded dwarves can only be given water to drink.

To check to see if water is salty, use the (i) menu to see if the game shows the pond/pool as a water source. If the "water source (x)" is (0), then the source is salty. If not, then your dwarves will drink it.

A {{l|screw pump}} can be used to desalinate water, but the fresh water produced must be stored in a cistern made entirely out of constructed walls and floors. A smoothed floor does not count and is considered to be natural stone. If the water touches any natural stone or dirt it will instantly revert the entire reservoir back to salt water. Note that you will need a {{l|well}} to access the cistern as a water source. Since the old 40d method of using a {{l|well}} to desalinate water still works in 0.31, building a well over the nearest natural water source is also sufficient. When embarking in a salt water biome, it may be worthwhile to bring along a rope, a bucket, and two stone to ensure that you have the necessary equipment for building a well.

If your embark area contains multiple biomes, you may not have to build a cistern. If an aqueduct carries fresh water to a part of the map that is not a saltwater biome, you can simply keep the water in a hewn reservoir. Furthermore, subterranean lakes may also be non-salinated.

==Contaminants==
Contaminants that get into water currently can do very strange things. A pool of blood that gets covered by water will be pushed out of the water as the water flows creating more pools of blood at the edge of the water. Overflowing a large reservoir that contains contaminants of blood will generate a large amount of blood very quickly. This behavior is thought to be a bug.

{{Category|Physics}}

v0.31 Talk:Wound

2011-02-23T06:33:59Z

Doctorzuber: /* Limb Loss */

==Broken heart?==
I have seen a creature, while testing in the arena, with a broken heart.
My creature was modded to have a uncontrolled dust attack with a humanoid body without arms and with 4 legs. As 7 of them fought against a dragon, one of the surviving creatures had a broken heart. Either it has lost a loved one, or it had just broken its heart!--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 18:13, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

One of my dwarves got a broken liver. Because liver is the most important part of the dwarven metabolism, adamantine sutures were used to fix it.--[[User:Aavemursu|Aavemursu]]

==Inhibited Dwarves==
Dwarves with some kinda of lasting status such as inhibited flash with a yellow '+'. How this effects the dwarf is on the hospital screen (weak grasp, etc.) Do not know to what extent inhibited dwarves are effected in work and combat.--[[Special:Contributions/99.67.238.66|99.67.238.66]] 04:06, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

== Lasting Injuries ==

One of my dwarfs has injuries to her left arm and lower leg. These are listed in her personality section as "tiny curving scars" rather than dents or bruises as would be the case for combat injuries. Scarring causes permanent injuries? Needs corroboration.--[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 09:54, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

:After checking around this applies to all my dwarves that have scars. Scarred areas are listed in the personality section, and remain permanently brown or yellow - i.e. minor/inhibited.--[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 09:54, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

== Function Loss ==

"From the description above, the new cyan "Function loss" appears to be paralyzation or numbness."

I've had about fifteen dwarves wrestling an ettin for about a month now, and the only things that turn cyan are internal organs (pancreas, kidney, lung). No limb or appendage has turned cyan that I've seen. I suspect that it is used for things that would not be, say, bruised or broken, but otherwise damaged. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 18:40, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

:After another week and some dogs joining in, the eyes went cyan, too. So it's not just /internal/ organs, but I think my earlier conclusion is still sound. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 21:55, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

== Post Traumatic Stress ==

I've only found limited references to what I think is a bug: after one of my military dwarves was brain-damaged during a goblin ambush (and after the goblins were dead or long-gone) she kept spamming "Urist McMacedwarf cancels rest: interrupted by goblin mace man". Although sporting a whole range of grievous wounds, she would ''not'' be carried to a hospital bed as the rest of the wounded, since she apparently retained consciousness albeit a strange dementia wherein she kept thinking goblins were still all around her. I thought this a bit comical at first, and after all, suffering brain damage could now be liable for myriad of behavioral quirks but when the spam messages -- about 5 per second -- went into the 1,000 range, and the dwarf kept sitting there, not having eaten or drank for over a month, I began getting concerned (especially when this eventually led to the game crashing, I assume from congestion of the spam messages). Recently, however, I had the same thing happen to a dwarf who had ''not'' suffered any brain or head injury, and yet the same thing's happening with her, leading me to believe it's a bug. The only solutions offered on the Bay12 forums involve deconstructing the bed of or killing the said dwarf on the pretense that he/she is underground, in one's fortress, specifically in the hospital. My wounded hospital dwarves have never spammed these messages (and why would they -- they're already resting) and both these instances occurred with dwarves still outside. I cannot have my squads kill them and see no way of ending the stream of messages. Any ideas? --[[User:Bronzebeard|Bronzebeard]] 12:45, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

:Good news: I've found a way to fix this bug! Apparently, the confused (or bugged, as the case may be) dwarves have to sustain another injury to snap them out of it. With a heavy heart, I built a menacing spike right under the troubled dwarf and connected it to a lever nearby, and had it pulled. To my disappointment, as I wanted to at least afford her a quick death, it only wounded her. I was going to have it pulled again before I discovered the spam messages had stopped and, despite the dire injuries, she was no longer trying to rest but attend a combat drill, but nonetheless, a dwarf nearby headed toward her to carry her off to a hospital bed. Problem solved, evidently. --[[User:Bronzebeard|Bronzebeard]] 02:59, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

== Broken Skulls? ==

I've been controlling creatures in the Arena, and something strange happened. I was wandering around with nothing but a maul, trashing goblins because I could, and I hit a goblin in the head. It said that it broke its skull, so I moved on to another creature, and didn't notice that it started following me. Focusing on the actual threats, I killed everything else, and then it killed me by stabbing me in the lung. Has this happened to anyone else?--[[User:Mad Fencer|Mad Fencer]] 23:02, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

:Propably you damaged only the cranial bone, but left the brain intact enough to not kill him instantly.--[[User:Gnarker|Gnarker]] 20:02, 28 May 2010 (CEST)

== Pale ==
Just discovered a Hoary Marmot badly wounded by a Troglodyte, which had the 'pale' descriptor in the wounds-screen. I think that came from the heavy blood loss.--[[User:Gnarker|Gnarker]] 20:06, 28 May 2010 (CEST)
:Yah, that was present in 40d as well. It goes 'Faint', then 'Pale', and then the creature dies. Sorta the same way 'Hungry' and 'Starving' work, except it's referring to running out of blood instead of running out of food. Happens to your dwarves too, along with every creature that bleeds. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 20:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

== This page needs more info ==

RIght now it should say what different injuries effects are.--[[User:Toybasher|Toybasher]] 12:10, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

I added in a section describing what effects missing limbs (specifically, arms) have. --[[User:Existent|Existent]] 15:44, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

== Death by workshop? ==

So, my woodcutter is happily working on some bins, when suddenly an announcement pops up. "Cog Dalzatkikrost, Woodworker has bled to death." His corpse is still in his workshop. There appears to be no units on the unit list aside from my dwarves and embark animals. This workshop is outside, but very close to a meeting zone that has other dwarves on break and animals present. The Thoughts and Preferences screen says "His upper body is gone". Being the woodworker, he had a copper battle axe, but I'm not sure if that's relevant. What on earth happened here? --[[Special:Contributions/174.0.202.59|174.0.202.59]] 22:21, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:A few seconds after this happened, a stray dog just randomly died in what I can only assume is a similar fashion. "His upper body is gone" --[[Special:Contributions/174.0.202.59|174.0.202.59]] 22:27, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
::A horse standing in the same general area as both the dog and the woodcutter just got some random leg wounds, but didn't die. I was sitting here watching this happen. I didn't see anything approach it, and neither did my dwarves apparently. It just suddenly ran off in one direction, leaving a trail of blood, and stopped a few tiles away closer to my other dwarves which were in the meeting area on break.
:::Can be magma one level below, or melting rain bug, or other temperature bug. -Afoninv
::::Or El Chupacabra.
:All dead dwarves show with "upper body is gone" afterwards, it's not an actual indicator of what killed them. You can now press R to get combat reports though with the same details from adventure mode. [[User:Scikar|Scikar]] 18:42, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

== Colossus of Socks ==

Apparently a cave spider silk sock can be used as an improvised weapon by the colossus if stolen from one of the dwarves... Its been three years, and the colossus has never once stopped beating my hammerdwarf with it. I just left them alone in a secluded room together. Its entertaining. It seems a dwarf can take damage to every piece of his body without dying. Especially if its constant, and with a sock.
:This brings another thing to mind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y
:--[[User:Axussriddare|KETHCHUP BERSERK!!!]] 16:04, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I spent over a year fighting a Bronze Colossus who insisted on bashing elves and my adventurer eventually to death with a Pig tail skirt...--[[User:Haydosss|Haydosss]] 08:13, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

== Limb Loss ==
I've just had a Speardwarf have his arm cut off in battle (he continued fighting and ended up killing about 10 goblins) and he survived the entire fight. Now he is wandering around as though there is (almost) nothing wrong, he hasn't gone to the Hospital once despite there being many beds. I think the section on missing limbs needs to be changed just to point out that not all dwarves will linger in the hospital after losing a limb.
By the way, he is pretty much doing the exact same thing as he did before losing his arm.

: NEVER UNDERESTIMATE A DWARF! I noticed one of the dwarves in my army had no arms. After several failed attempts to retire him to a desk job I put him back in the military with no armor or equipment expecting him to die in the next siege. He didn't die. Instead he has gone on to survive several sieges and get at least seven kills that I know of AFTER losing both his arms. He is a legendary fighter with some other assorted combat skills at talented and below. He currently has 28 kills and 10 other kills. He's not dead yet. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 06:33, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

== Making nerve damage healable ==

The article says you can make nerve damage healable by editing the raw files. Do you have to do this before creating the world? I edited the tissue_template_default.txt file in raw/objects and in the save folder. But the nerve damage remains. [[Special:Contributions/220.253.87.249|220.253.87.249]] 03:07, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
:I believe so, but haven't verified. —[[Special:Contributions/98.221.97.100|98.221.97.100]] 06:30, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

It was suggested that nerves are only ever severed, so they do not heal, and adding this tag does nothing. Can someone confirm? --[[User:Naros|Naros]] 03:30, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
:Confirmed. The line [TISSUE_NAME:nervous tissue:NP] may suggest that it only applies to spinal nerves, since those are the only nerves which I've seen being referred to as "nervous tissue". --[[User:Eepkeep|Eepkeep]] 16:36, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Magma

2011-02-21T10:22:15Z

Doctorzuber:

There's several reports of creatures drowning or suffocating before burning to death even in 7/7 magma, is it possible that dwarves not burning in 1/7 magma is just a bug?
--[[User:Syndic|Syndic]] 17:40, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Could be. I would have added it to the talk page first, but Ip users can't even create talk pages >.> --[[Special:Contributions/78.151.176.4|78.151.176.4]] 18:24, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

:I'm aware of the reports but haven't looked into it myself yet. Add to this the reports of dwarves melting when it rains on a scorching day and it adds up to a pretty screwed up temperature system. You've got three different things that could be a factor. The components of a body have been radically overhauled, that's vastly more complex. We've got the new spatter system, also radically new, might be related, might not. And we've got the new temperatures in worldgen which are very different. I think the worldgen bit is because of a change that makes elevation influence temperature.

:It all adds up to a huge poorly understood mess for now. I wasn't going to say anything about it on the main page yet because it's still wild theory that is not well understood. But I didn't feel it was worth arguing about either, so I didn't delete the note about it on the page. I did edit it slightly just so it looked better without trying to change the content of the message. -- [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 18:42, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
::What I found is that all creatures will survive being fully submerged in lava for a short time, not just magma immune ones. However, the ones that aren't magma immune '''will''' be burnt before being able to leave the square (when next to a ramp). If a non-immune creature is in 7/7 magma for more than 1 turn they will generally bleed/burn to death. --[[User:DUMBELLS|dUMBELLS]] 22:39, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
:::I confirmed this. I tapped into one of these new fangled rigidly shaped volcanos just to test this issue and verified two things. magma is pressureless as expected, and contrary to expectation dwarves do not instantly die when coming in contact with magma. My unlucky miner fled the scene quickly but was without a doubt fully immersed in 7/7 magma before doing so. He suffered no injuries.
:::Following this test I went ahead and flooded the whole fortress in magma verifying that magma can still kill dwarves, just not as efficiently as expected. The magma also left many objects fully submerged but unharmed which is also quite strange.[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 16:52, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
::::I had some fun with a volcano, underground caves, a reptile man tribe, my animals and at last my own dwarves. I dropped my animals down into the volcano but I was somehow disappointed by seeing a living dog "diving" in lava. He fell all the about 90 z.levels down, without even getting hurt. When he landed in the magma see far deep underground, he started to burn/bleed/die. I repeated this with my dwarves and other animals. It seems, falling THROUGH lava does not hurt only standing in it. Maybe it has some other reasons, but all my dwarves/animals reached the bottom magmasea unharmed.--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 16:45, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
:Make sure you haven't turned temperature off in d_init.txt I was having this issue too when I first started playing with magma, and realized I'd turned temperature off to try and increase FPS. Turning temp back on should fix this, and might account for why some have this problem and some don't. --[[User:Forgenvash|Forgenvash]] 10:43, 30 Dec 2010 (PST)

==Magma Sea==
There is a new line in world gen for Magma Layer YES/NO which would probably turn off the magma sea feature if desired. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 18:50, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

== Pipes and pools ==

Going by in-game terminology, there are no more magma pipes - there are only "magma pools" (which are obsidian-lined, extend up from the magma sea, and presumably refill just like 40d magma pipes) and volcanoes (which are likely just "magma pools" that extend all the way to the surface). In Adventurer mode, I encountered magma that extended all the way to the upper cavern layer (but no further), and the game reported that I had discovered a magma pool; upon jumping into it (stepping into the open space above it - stepping down into the magma left me "swimming" at the top of it unable to move at all), I plummeted straight to the magma sea ("discovering" it in the process) and slowly melted. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:07, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
:'''Praise the plummeters!''' I've only played with two maps - one had a volcano(?) that was visible on the main embark map, and the other had nuthin'. If we need to redefine/delete some terms, then that's what we need to do - if there are no "pipes" in game, then we stick with "pools" and never refer to pipes again.
:''(For reference to new players, in 40d "magma pipes" and "magma pools" could both be hidden and required revealing by mining - pipes would refill slowly if any magma were removed (by channeling/pumping), but pools contained a fixed amount only. These may need redefining according to the 0.31 usage.)''--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:40, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
:: Keep in mind that pipes and pools as seen in 40d are hidden features again. So it's hard to casually say they just don't exist. Without the finder they're difficult to locate but for now I am still assuming they do still exist. It's very possible they've changed with the new underground stuff, but it's hard to say right away. Give it time. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 17:51, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
::: I inspected a few maps with reveal out of boredom and noticed an oddity. I found what looks like a lava pipe (the usual shapeless large semi-circular area), but it had no lava. It only extended through about 5 z-levels and never touched lava. I can also confirm that I've seen pipes (pools?) that extend down to the sea as described. I spotted this in reveal and didn't get the message for finding it so I can't say on your pipe/pool thing. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 20:06, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Well, the game refers to them as 'pools'. So we should go with that until we have more information. --[[User:Tarran|Tarran]] 20:23, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

== Infinite Magma Sources ==

Is there any way to guarantee that you will get a magma pipe on embark? Making large magma systems or obsidian factories seems like it would be more difficult when you have to work with finite amounts of magma. --[[Special:Contributions/129.252.122.38|129.252.122.38]] 15:10, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
: You're guaranteed a magma sea at embark unless you turn that off in the world gen settings. As for finding a pipe just look for an actual volcano. You can adjust the world gen settings to be rich in volcanos if you so desire. Set elevation 200:400:3600:3600 and a high number of volcanos in worldgen if that is what you want. Of course, at present a volcano has no variance of shape whatsoever, and magma behaves a bit oddly. But if that's what you want it's easy enough to get. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 17:41, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

== Magma Temperature ==

What Temperature Is Magma In This Version? I Suspect It Is 12,000° Urist But Need Confirmation Before Editing The Article. Should This Go Into Magma Properties Or The Top Of The Article? --[[Special:Contributions/80.137.113.241|80.137.113.241]] 15:33, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
: Possibly, But as you say, it's not confirmed yet. And there's been some confusion on the subject over in the bug tracker. Apparently the list of magma-safe materials has undergone some pretty dramatic changes, and brought in a bug or two to confuse things. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 16:30, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
::Magma's temperature is still 12000, as verified using dfprobe or dtil (with a sufficiently updated memory.ini). Also, Capitalizing Every Single Word You Type Makes You Look Rather Peculiar. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:39, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Thank you, I was waiting on confirmation before adding a note about temperature here since I saw there was some confusion on the subject. I updated it now. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 21:21, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

== Magma buildings ==
Does anybody have any idea what how the game decides when 'magma' has been discovered? I am 'playing' with magma spawning utilities and i cannae get ma magma smelters! [[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 20:14, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
:As soon as you discover the magma sea, or a magma pool. If you embark on a volcano you are allowed to build them immediately. --[[User:Tarran|Tarran]] 00:34, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

== Volcano eruption ==
I just settled up on island in the middle of the sea with a visible volcano mountain, in a scorching climate. A few minutes after beginning to build my fortress it started raining. When the rain was about to stop I see a huge red thing, LAVA EVERYWHERE! The volcano seems to have erupted and lava is burning down the mountain and I expect my newly construct fortress to be drowned soon. I don't know if the rain is the cause of this lava flooding or if it is just an eruption. It may just have been a coincidence. Or the water may have been so hot, due to the scorching climate and changed into lava. Lava flood can be a logical explantation to the formation of the island. [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-2184-lavaeverywherevolcanoeruption Here is a video] – --ToWT comment by [[User:90.49.12.172|90.49.12.172]]
:Rain started to fall again... and it seem that is it the source of this magma overflow. Tiles are filled up to seven one level upper the volcano. [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-2185-lavanightmare Here is a video again.] – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:90.49.12.172|90.49.12.172]]
::It would be rather nasty if the "magma flow" tiles at the bottom of the magma sea were behaving the same as murky pools and allowing rainwater to accumulate (as magma)... --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:19, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::It don't seem to be behave the same because I have never seen a murky pool overflow. There it seem that magma is erupting from the upper level from what I have identified, when thinking about how to build my fortress, as the "top" of the volcano. Since the first flood there has been magma on that level. After taking a better look now that my fortress should be safe, the rain is no responsible for the phenomenon. Lava comes out of the volcano even when it is not raining. Now what I would like to know is why is magma flooding out. Any suggestions? – --ToWT comment by [[User:90.49.12.172|90.49.12.172]]
::::In that case, the bug is probably that the "magma pool" (read: volcano) is refilling past the top - if it's not already in the bug tracker, it might be wise to add it (and upload a savegame so others can reproduce it). Also, please sign your comments (by typing <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:38, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::But is that really a bug? I mean, there are continuous lava flooding volcano in the real world. --[[Special:Contributions/90.49.12.172|90.49.12.172]] 21:45, 25 May 2010 (UTC)ToWT
::::::Maybe the Rain is forming obsidian that is dropping to the bottom of the magma sea and causing magma to displace out of the volcano --[[User:Ghosteh|Ghosteh]] 12:51, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::::If obsidian forms and collapses (from rain) there should be warning messages about it. Also collapsing obsidian will not typically displace anything, it will instead hit the floor and shatter back into raw ore which doesn't displace fluids.--[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 16:46, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::::It's what happens when something causes the volcano to think that the layer above the magma surface is part of the pipe causing it to try and refill to that level, sometimes a site gens such that the top layer of the volcano gets eroded causing the 'pipe' area to extend beyond ground level.--[[User:MLegion|MLegion]] 14:43, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Magma mist ==
Can someone find an appropriate place for a link to the magma mist article? --[[User:MLegion|MLegion]] 16:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
:Done. [[User:Vattic|Vattic]] 15:30, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

== Not Scrambling to Safety ==
My miners are consistently dying when they break into magma. Instead of "scrambling to safety unless submerged in 7/7", the poor fellas are instantly bleeding and torn up. They then proceed to either stay in one place and bleed out, or hobble away a square or two and bleed out... in 1/7 magma. [[User:Aussiemon|Aussiemon]] 22:20, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

:You can make a row of upstairs at the inlet of the magma channel, (5 upstairs should be enough). I've always use this method and yet to see any accident. --[[Special:Contributions/124.120.137.156|124.120.137.156]] 14:11, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

== Magma pressure? ==

In a previous embark in a previous worldgen (.12), I had dug down to the magma sea and channeled into it to prepare to pump magma. Every so often, the tile above the channel would fill with 3-4/7 magma, floading the area around it with 1/7. This wasn't at the top of the sea, and there was magma at the level of and levels above where I was going to build my pump right nearby. No magma creatures were nearby. Magma pressure, a bug with the boundaries of the magam sea, or something else? This would only happen every several game days or so. [[Special:Contributions/208.66.38.13|208.66.38.13]] 17:34, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

== No magma/map diggable to bottom? ==

I'm running v. .31.16, and I've dug all the way to the bottom of my map without hitting magma (or SMR, or HFS for that matter). Can't scroll down from -23, or designate channels or down stairs. <s>I'm digging to all corners to verify whether other layers/biomes also lack magma</s> Actually, it turns out that the bottom layer of another biome has semi-molten rock as normal. Has anyone else on .16 gotten a map where part of it is diggable all the way to the bottom layer?

Strangely, z-levels above the terrain behave like they do in the {{L|Adamantine|Great Adamantine Space Elevator}} (but without the gigantic blue-green spike, sorry! ;-) - while I can't scroll down below z-level -23, I can scroll as high above the terrain as I want to (at least as far as >500 levels above terrain). Anyone else getting this in .16?

World-gen and embark was done in .31.16 on linux, (although currently the data dir is running on a PC); world_gen.txt is unchanged from .16 distro. Can't remember the exact choices taken in the new .16 world-gen menu, but nothing too weird there. [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 06:10, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

== Have you ever dig down, trying to get to warm core and failed to get it right away? ==

This has NOT been mentioned in the main article and created some confusion in my head.. so:
While digging down for energy source and ''missing'' actual magma pool/sea/pipe/vent/whatever you might encounter two things - '''warm''' stones and '''semi-molten rock''' aside of usual minerals, this is important because if a tile is marked as warm it is bordering ''surface'' of magma and if it is semi-molten - it is next to magma ''below'' the surface. That basically means that if you gt to molten - you are to deep and should retrace z-layers back to find the top of magma body.
[[User:Phazorx|Phazorx]] 21:49, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
: Not true. '''Warm''' stones border magma. It can be in any direction, including up and down, north, south, east, and west, and the diagonals on the horizontal plane. '''Semi-molten rock''' forms a layer under the magma sea and above {{l|hell}}. So while finding semi-molten rock does mean the magma sea is above you, finding warm stone doesn't mean you've found the top of the magma sea. Just that there's magma on the other side of that wall. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 00:04, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Not really sure how to piece it together then (bugs perhaps?)... In my case I: a) found no magma between molten rocks and found semi-molten rocks on different z-levels b) found warm stones next (in all possible 26 directions) to magma tiles (i wasn't very clear I guess in definition of "bordering surface of") [[User:Phazorx|Phazorx]] 18:08, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

== Lava not turning to obsidian ==
I found what seems to be a weird glitch. I arranged a collapse to control a lake that happened to be directly above a layer of magma. I expected the collapse to simply break through the floor and turn two tiles into obsidian. Instead, the two tiles completely refused to cool into obsidian and instead vaporized two entire layers worth of water. I'm wondering if this is because of my collapse, or if it is maybe a property of semi-molten rock which is also present here just below the magma. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 10:22, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

v0.31:Water

2011-02-18T22:56:35Z

Doctorzuber:

{{av}}
{{Quality|Exceptional|19:08, 6 July 2010 (UTC)}}

'''Water''' is a fluid found all over the world. It {{l|flow|flows}} from mountain springs, forming the world's {{l|ocean}}s, {{l|lake}}s, {{l|river}}s, and {{l|brook}}s. Water falls as {{l|rain}} and {{l|snow}}, and freezes into {{l|ice}}. Water is home to a variety of {{l|aquatic creatures}}. Many creatures can {{l|Swimmer|swim}} in deep water. Air-breathing creatures that are submerged in water can {{l|Swimmer#Drowning|drown}} in it. Water comes in two varieties: '''freshwater''', which makes up almost all inland water, and '''saltwater''', which fills the seas. In this version, some brooks and murky pools can be saltwater even if the fortress site is partially mountainous. It is not known if this is a bug. To tell the difference, attempt to set up a drinking zone including some of the water in question. If there are zero tiles of water source available, the water is saltwater.

In the new system mud is now a {{l|contaminant}} which is created any time water covers an area. Any tiles that contain mud may be used for {{l|Agriculture|farming}}.

Water is displayed with the symbols {{Tile|≈|1:7:1}} and {{Tile|~|1:7:1}}, sometimes colored different blues, and white, showing ripples. Water can also take on other colors indicating {{l|contaminant|contaminants}} such as '''blood''', '''ichor''', or '''goo'''. (The game can be {{l|Technical tricks#The look of the game|configured}} to show the depth instead).

Dark-colored water symbols indicate the water is one {{l|Z-level}} below the camera level. Water has 7 depth levels per tile, with 1 being a shallow puddle, and 7 filling the tile completely. {{l|Dwarf|Dwarves}} can safely walk through water up to a depth of 4. Dwarves finding themselves in water at a depth of 5 or greater are at risk of drowning unless they are skilled at {{l|swimming}}.

==Evaporation==
Evaporation occurs when water or {{l|magma}} is at a depth of 1/7. Simply having 2/7 standing water is enough to prevent evaporation.

{{l|Murky pool|Murky pools}} are an exception. In '''hot''' or '''scorching''' environments a murky pool can evaporate even when it is completely full. Murky pools also generate water to simulate seasonal accumulation from rainfall. This sometimes makes it possible for a murky pool to replenish itself even when it has been completely drained.

==Freezing==
Any outdoor environment can freeze seasonally. With the updates to weather and seasonal changes many environments get cold enough to freeze in winter. When this happens any water that is exposed above ground will freeze. However water a single tile away that is in an underground tunnel will not freeze.

==Flow==
Water and {{l|magma}} are both {{l|flow|fluids}} which are constantly trying to '''{{l|flow}}''' into adjacent tiles until they have filled all available space or until they run out of fluid. Fluids technically move in 9 directions: down, and to the sides. Fluids cannot move diagonally up or down. Fluids at a depth of 1/7 no longer attempt to move unless they can move down. Fluids under {{l|pressure}} can appear to travel upward until the pressure equalizes, though in reality they are moving downward and/or sideways relative to their source.

If the flow is strong enough, it can move objects such as dwarfs, pets, stones, weapons or corpses.

Fluids in Dwarf Fortress acts like a fairly thick, viscous material. This makes it possible to do highly implausible things like {{l|pump}} out a dry hole in the middle of a {{l|river}} or {{l|ocean}}.

==Sourced Water==
Water that comes from {{l|river}}s, {{l|brook}}s, {{l|ocean}}s, {{l|aquifer}}s or springs is considered to be '''sourced water'''. Any sourced water is an endless supply of water that can never run dry, although it can freeze for part of the year in colder biomes.

When using sourced water you should strongly consider installing {{l|floodgate}}s and be aware of how {{l|pressure}} works or you could easily end up {{l|flood}}ing your fortress and having a lot more {{l|fun}} than anticipated.

==Salt Water==
Dwarves can not use salt water until it has been desalinated; while healthy dwarves will usually prefer to drink {{L|booze}}, they may resort to drinking water if they are forced to drink the same variety for too long, and wounded dwarves can only be given water to drink.

To check to see if water is salty, use the (i) menu to see if the game shows the pond/pool as a water source. If the "water source (x)" is (0), then the source is salty. If not, then your dwarves will drink it.

A {{l|screw pump}} can be used to desalinate water, but the fresh water produced must be stored in a cistern made entirely out of constructed walls and floors. A smoothed floor does not count and is considered to be natural stone. If the water touches any natural stone or dirt it will instantly revert the entire reservoir back to salt water. Note that you will need a {{l|well}} to access the cistern as a water source. Since the old 40d method of using a {{l|well}} to desalinate water still works in 0.31, building a well over the nearest natural water source is also sufficient. When embarking in a salt water biome, it may be worthwhile to bring along a rope, a bucket, and two stone to ensure that you have the necessary equipment for building a well.

If your embark area contains multiple biomes, you may not have to build a cistern. If an aqueduct carries fresh water to a part of the map that is not a saltwater biome, you can simply keep the water in a hewn reservoir. Furthermore, subterranean lakes may also be non-salinated.

==Contaminants==
Contaminants that get into water currently can do very strange things. A pool of blood that gets covered by water will be pushed out of the water as the water flows creating more pools of blood at the edge of the water. Overflowing a large reservoir that contains contaminants of blood will generate a large amount of blood very quickly. This behavior is thought to be a bug.

{{Category|Physics}}

v0.31 Talk:Water

2011-02-18T22:31:16Z

Doctorzuber: /* Communicating vessels don't work */

== Water as cushioning ==

Tried dropping various creatures in various places in arena mode. Everything survives 1z drops unharmed. 2z is damaging. 3z is more often than not lethal. Water appears to cushion falls. I dropped things from the top of the arena into the 3z deep end of the water and they weren't injured at all, though they quickly drowned due to not being swimmers. Also tried dropping people in 3z of magma. Magma seems to provide less cushioning than water. And then they burn. Suggest making irrationally large (200-300z or so) drops into various depths of water to test cushioning effect. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 04:44, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:It's worth noting that layers of water in previous versions did not cushion your fall so much as the depth of the water didn't increase it. I.e. the drop damage was calculated by the amount of air you fell through. Is that a possibility here? --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 05:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::This appears to be actual cushioning. Creatures fell 5-6z before hitting the water and falling another 3z. If the water simply didn't count, they'd have splatted as normal for a 6z fall. Instead they were unharmed and seemingly unaware that they should swim to safety. Or merely unable to. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 16:41, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

== Contamination ==

I've built a very large reservoir (currently 30x25x4 approx) on some ground that had mountain goat blood on it. There is also a small amount of mountain goat and dwarf blood on the area around the reservoir. On overflowing the reservoir (which is fed from the top by a "clean" source), I get blood EVERYWHERE the water flows, seemingly on evaporation of the water. There's now far more blood spread around than the creatures had originally... anyone seen similar? --[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 21:21, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
: I did some arena tests with blood and water. apparently adding a 7/7 tile of water on top of a pool of blood creates more pools of blood which are pushed out to the edges of the water as it moves. This behavior may be a bug. There is an open ticket about the subject on the bug tracker here with my full results. [[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=296]] - [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:31, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
: This appears to be fixed in 31.16 [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 00:05, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

:: I'm grumbling a bit at my water reservoir. My Dwarves have apparently declared it to be contaminated and refuse to drink from it any more. This is especially annoying since I was quite careful to make sure not to let any dead animals fall into the reservoir, it should all be nice clean water. But for some reason, it is not. I'm curious if anybody has any useful tricks to help prevent this issue. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 13:56, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

== Verifications of old behavior ==

*U-bend test from a river fills to z-1 as expected
*U-bend test from a murky pool fills to z-1 as expected
*channeling directly from a river temporarily has no flow, but soon becomes naturally flowing as expected
*screw pump to a dead end one level above a river generates natural flow as expected
*Diagonal connections neutralize water pressure as expected
*Diagonal connections do not prevent the spread of flow as expected
*Reactor#3 built as a perpetual motion test -- behaves as expected

*some flow artifacts at the bottom of both U-bends -- this was always a bit quirky, but should run more tests
*screw pump from a murky pool in a 1x18 channel which doubles back to the murky pond generates reliable flow -- '''possible change in flow mechanics'''
*Screw pump from z-2 one level below the river, pushing into a 1x100 channel generates flow only near the end of the channel where the water is still filling. Behaves as expected, the previous test appears to be a fluke.

I'm running through a battery of tests here, I will update this with my results. The one surprise so far is the murky pool test. In 40d a similar test would quickly become saturated with 7/7 water and only indicate flow at the end of the channel. need to test that more to make sure this isn't a fluke. I will continue to update this as I verify more things. Once I have a bit more information I'll start updating the water pages. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:26, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

: Ran a new variation of the long channel flow test using a level drop this time to break the natural flow effect from the river. This time I got the expected result of many tiles of still water with a small amount of flowing water near the end of the channel where it had not yet filled. This does however mean I'm using pressurized water this time which might be worth a bit more investigation. This also demonstrates the simplest form of water teleportation which is what is believed to be why flow of this nature fails to appear. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 19:53, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

== Springs? ==

Reading this article mentions that water can come from springs... and it's linked. I hadn't heard of this before, so I followed the link and it redirected to Calendar; it meant springtime. I removed the link for now, but do water-springs occur? Someone who knows either remove the term in this article or work on the Spring page. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 04:33, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:"Springs" probably refers to mountain brooks. At the head of each brook, there is a spidery section of water, and at the end of each "finger" of water there is a "river source" tile that can be viewed with {{k|k}}. These are infinite sources of water, and probably what the article refers to.[[User:JohnnyMadhouse|JohnnyMadhouse]] 04:43, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:: the source of many rivers is a spring, it's a weird spidery looking thing that is a direct source of water. They can sometimes be found on open plains. They are often found deep in the mountains. If you have one in your embark map, they have some odd properties as discussed in the wiki. They will have a number of tiles that are treated as water sources, which will constantly and rapidly refill to 7/7 water providing and endless supply of water. a collapse above these tiles will break this effect. This is different from the much more common behavior of off map water sources where you have and edge of map tile that will constantly refill. Edge of map tiles cannot be destroyed. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 15:41, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
::: Well thanks for the answer... someone might want to make a Spring(Water) page as opposed to the Spring(Season) page... Either one of you guys prolly could... I don't have any firsthand knowledge, so I prolly shouldn't. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 00:48, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

== fortifications on map edge to drain fluid away ==
They say you can designate fortifications on edge tiles to drain fluid off the map. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 13:44, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
: You can't dig out an edge tile. If there is solid ground there it is there to stay. Just to double-check I even tried to carve fortifications out of an edge tile. as expected, it doesn't work. You can smooth and engrave the wall if you so wish but cannot otherwise remove or alter it. However in underground complexes it is common to have open spaces at the edge of map. In this case you can choose to place walls (or fortifications) right up at the edge of the map. On the surface of the world where caravans travel, you may not place any structures within 5 tiles of the edge. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 17:37, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
:: Actually, I've done the fortification trick. If you smooth the edge wall, you can carve fortifications in it and use it to drain an infinite amount of water/magma. [[Special:Contributions/64.255.180.84|64.255.180.84]] 16:16, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::: Even in version 0.31? It's well known that this was possible in 40d (though only with water), but some things have changed since then. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::: Smoothing it first you say? I'll have to verify that later, if true that's useful to know. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:16, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Works fine, if you do this to a wall at waterlevel in a cavern near a part of the edge that generates water you can create real easy power supplies.--[[User:MLegion|MLegion]] 09:24, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== Freezing documentation? ==

Source water that freezes in colder months won't freeze if piped to an underground area. Rather, the source will freeze, but the water already underground won't become ice. I made an elaborate magma heating system, only to realize that it actually wasn't needed.

== Communicating vessels don't work ==

I've tested it with a very simple two z layers setup (see below), and it doesn't seem to work. I think this should be a bug.
Because it provides many interesting engineering and opportunities for fun.

The setup is two pools separated by a wall, which are channeled below them, without a wall separating them. Filling one should raise the water level in the other.
The profile is like this:
<pre>Level Z: ====# #
Level Z-1: #=======#
Level Z-2: #########
</pre>
The right part in level Z should have water too.
[[Special:Contributions/89.141.113.238|89.141.113.238]] 20:00, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

: You've basically just built a sloppy u-bend. This is consistent with the current pressure rules. U-bends push water back up to Z-1 not to Z as you might expect. I suspect the reason for this quirk is to avoid an infinite loop with water bouncing back and forth in a U. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 22:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

== Murky pool + rain = no evaporation ==

Beware: water from a [[murky pool]] appears to never evaporate in the rain. Free-flowing, unconstrained water will stay at level 1; the rain will add to the perma-water and cause it to spread horizontally.

The effect seems to be tied to the original tiles of the pool. I used such a pool to irrigate a subterranean farm plot. Even indoors, the water never evaporated and spread further into my fortress, until I managed to wall off the farm from the original pool tiles.

I was only able to do construct such a wall by knocking out more boundary walls of the pool, toward some open plains. This allowed newly-fallen perma-water to flow away from my farm long enough to build a wall. Unfortunately I appear to be on an embark where it never stops raining; six years in, the level-1 perma-water has spread to cover an area of about 70x40. It has spread in a large circle (bounded by other walls of my mountain) with the original murky pool site at its center. I have never seen any tiles evaporate or recede. --[[User:Squeaky|Squeaky]] 22:00, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Is your TEMPERATURE: ON? Maybe there's a bug in it relating to the necessary heat to evaporate water. Try to take some water from this pool and ponding it elsewhere and see if it evaporates for the good of !!SCIENCE!!-Anon 16 December 2010

: While this is uncommon, it is not unusual. It's a safe bet that you are in a wet jungle biome. A nice wet/warm biome and murky pools refill VERY quickly. They refill so quickly in fact that like you described, they just never stop dumping new water into your fort. Assuming it's not already a lost cause, you can probably get control of this situation by cutting a nice channel to control the flow of water long enough to get some walls up and contain the flooding. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 13:55, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Water

2011-02-18T22:29:40Z

Doctorzuber: /* Communicating vessels don't work */

== Water as cushioning ==

Tried dropping various creatures in various places in arena mode. Everything survives 1z drops unharmed. 2z is damaging. 3z is more often than not lethal. Water appears to cushion falls. I dropped things from the top of the arena into the 3z deep end of the water and they weren't injured at all, though they quickly drowned due to not being swimmers. Also tried dropping people in 3z of magma. Magma seems to provide less cushioning than water. And then they burn. Suggest making irrationally large (200-300z or so) drops into various depths of water to test cushioning effect. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 04:44, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:It's worth noting that layers of water in previous versions did not cushion your fall so much as the depth of the water didn't increase it. I.e. the drop damage was calculated by the amount of air you fell through. Is that a possibility here? --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 05:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::This appears to be actual cushioning. Creatures fell 5-6z before hitting the water and falling another 3z. If the water simply didn't count, they'd have splatted as normal for a 6z fall. Instead they were unharmed and seemingly unaware that they should swim to safety. Or merely unable to. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 16:41, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

== Contamination ==

I've built a very large reservoir (currently 30x25x4 approx) on some ground that had mountain goat blood on it. There is also a small amount of mountain goat and dwarf blood on the area around the reservoir. On overflowing the reservoir (which is fed from the top by a "clean" source), I get blood EVERYWHERE the water flows, seemingly on evaporation of the water. There's now far more blood spread around than the creatures had originally... anyone seen similar? --[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 21:21, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
: I did some arena tests with blood and water. apparently adding a 7/7 tile of water on top of a pool of blood creates more pools of blood which are pushed out to the edges of the water as it moves. This behavior may be a bug. There is an open ticket about the subject on the bug tracker here with my full results. [[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=296]] - [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:31, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
: This appears to be fixed in 31.16 [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 00:05, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

:: I'm grumbling a bit at my water reservoir. My Dwarves have apparently declared it to be contaminated and refuse to drink from it any more. This is especially annoying since I was quite careful to make sure not to let any dead animals fall into the reservoir, it should all be nice clean water. But for some reason, it is not. I'm curious if anybody has any useful tricks to help prevent this issue. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 13:56, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

== Verifications of old behavior ==

*U-bend test from a river fills to z-1 as expected
*U-bend test from a murky pool fills to z-1 as expected
*channeling directly from a river temporarily has no flow, but soon becomes naturally flowing as expected
*screw pump to a dead end one level above a river generates natural flow as expected
*Diagonal connections neutralize water pressure as expected
*Diagonal connections do not prevent the spread of flow as expected
*Reactor#3 built as a perpetual motion test -- behaves as expected

*some flow artifacts at the bottom of both U-bends -- this was always a bit quirky, but should run more tests
*screw pump from a murky pool in a 1x18 channel which doubles back to the murky pond generates reliable flow -- '''possible change in flow mechanics'''
*Screw pump from z-2 one level below the river, pushing into a 1x100 channel generates flow only near the end of the channel where the water is still filling. Behaves as expected, the previous test appears to be a fluke.

I'm running through a battery of tests here, I will update this with my results. The one surprise so far is the murky pool test. In 40d a similar test would quickly become saturated with 7/7 water and only indicate flow at the end of the channel. need to test that more to make sure this isn't a fluke. I will continue to update this as I verify more things. Once I have a bit more information I'll start updating the water pages. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:26, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

: Ran a new variation of the long channel flow test using a level drop this time to break the natural flow effect from the river. This time I got the expected result of many tiles of still water with a small amount of flowing water near the end of the channel where it had not yet filled. This does however mean I'm using pressurized water this time which might be worth a bit more investigation. This also demonstrates the simplest form of water teleportation which is what is believed to be why flow of this nature fails to appear. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 19:53, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

== Springs? ==

Reading this article mentions that water can come from springs... and it's linked. I hadn't heard of this before, so I followed the link and it redirected to Calendar; it meant springtime. I removed the link for now, but do water-springs occur? Someone who knows either remove the term in this article or work on the Spring page. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 04:33, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:"Springs" probably refers to mountain brooks. At the head of each brook, there is a spidery section of water, and at the end of each "finger" of water there is a "river source" tile that can be viewed with {{k|k}}. These are infinite sources of water, and probably what the article refers to.[[User:JohnnyMadhouse|JohnnyMadhouse]] 04:43, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:: the source of many rivers is a spring, it's a weird spidery looking thing that is a direct source of water. They can sometimes be found on open plains. They are often found deep in the mountains. If you have one in your embark map, they have some odd properties as discussed in the wiki. They will have a number of tiles that are treated as water sources, which will constantly and rapidly refill to 7/7 water providing and endless supply of water. a collapse above these tiles will break this effect. This is different from the much more common behavior of off map water sources where you have and edge of map tile that will constantly refill. Edge of map tiles cannot be destroyed. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 15:41, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
::: Well thanks for the answer... someone might want to make a Spring(Water) page as opposed to the Spring(Season) page... Either one of you guys prolly could... I don't have any firsthand knowledge, so I prolly shouldn't. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 00:48, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

== fortifications on map edge to drain fluid away ==
They say you can designate fortifications on edge tiles to drain fluid off the map. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 13:44, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
: You can't dig out an edge tile. If there is solid ground there it is there to stay. Just to double-check I even tried to carve fortifications out of an edge tile. as expected, it doesn't work. You can smooth and engrave the wall if you so wish but cannot otherwise remove or alter it. However in underground complexes it is common to have open spaces at the edge of map. In this case you can choose to place walls (or fortifications) right up at the edge of the map. On the surface of the world where caravans travel, you may not place any structures within 5 tiles of the edge. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 17:37, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
:: Actually, I've done the fortification trick. If you smooth the edge wall, you can carve fortifications in it and use it to drain an infinite amount of water/magma. [[Special:Contributions/64.255.180.84|64.255.180.84]] 16:16, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::: Even in version 0.31? It's well known that this was possible in 40d (though only with water), but some things have changed since then. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::: Smoothing it first you say? I'll have to verify that later, if true that's useful to know. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:16, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Works fine, if you do this to a wall at waterlevel in a cavern near a part of the edge that generates water you can create real easy power supplies.--[[User:MLegion|MLegion]] 09:24, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== Freezing documentation? ==

Source water that freezes in colder months won't freeze if piped to an underground area. Rather, the source will freeze, but the water already underground won't become ice. I made an elaborate magma heating system, only to realize that it actually wasn't needed.

== Communicating vessels don't work ==

I've tested it with a very simple two z layers setup (see below), and it doesn't seem to work. I think this should be a bug.
Because it provides many interesting engineering and opportunities for fun.

The setup is two pools separated by a wall, which are channeled below them, without a wall separating them. Filling one should raise the water level in the other.
The profile is like this:
<pre>Level Z: ====# #
Level Z-1: #=======#
Level Z-2: #########
</pre>
The right part in level Z should have water too.
[[Special:Contributions/89.141.113.238|89.141.113.238]] 20:00, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

: You've basically just built a sloppy u-bend. This is consistent with the current pressure rules. U-bends push water back up to z-1 not to Z as you might expect. I suspect the reason for this quirk is to avoid an infinite loop with water bouncing back and forth in a U. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 22:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

== Murky pool + rain = no evaporation ==

Beware: water from a [[murky pool]] appears to never evaporate in the rain. Free-flowing, unconstrained water will stay at level 1; the rain will add to the perma-water and cause it to spread horizontally.

The effect seems to be tied to the original tiles of the pool. I used such a pool to irrigate a subterranean farm plot. Even indoors, the water never evaporated and spread further into my fortress, until I managed to wall off the farm from the original pool tiles.

I was only able to do construct such a wall by knocking out more boundary walls of the pool, toward some open plains. This allowed newly-fallen perma-water to flow away from my farm long enough to build a wall. Unfortunately I appear to be on an embark where it never stops raining; six years in, the level-1 perma-water has spread to cover an area of about 70x40. It has spread in a large circle (bounded by other walls of my mountain) with the original murky pool site at its center. I have never seen any tiles evaporate or recede. --[[User:Squeaky|Squeaky]] 22:00, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Is your TEMPERATURE: ON? Maybe there's a bug in it relating to the necessary heat to evaporate water. Try to take some water from this pool and ponding it elsewhere and see if it evaporates for the good of !!SCIENCE!!-Anon 16 December 2010

: While this is uncommon, it is not unusual. It's a safe bet that you are in a wet jungle biome. A nice wet/warm biome and murky pools refill VERY quickly. They refill so quickly in fact that like you described, they just never stop dumping new water into your fort. Assuming it's not already a lost cause, you can probably get control of this situation by cutting a nice channel to control the flow of water long enough to get some walls up and contain the flooding. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 13:55, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Water

2011-02-18T13:57:40Z

Doctorzuber: /* Contamination */

== Water as cushioning ==

Tried dropping various creatures in various places in arena mode. Everything survives 1z drops unharmed. 2z is damaging. 3z is more often than not lethal. Water appears to cushion falls. I dropped things from the top of the arena into the 3z deep end of the water and they weren't injured at all, though they quickly drowned due to not being swimmers. Also tried dropping people in 3z of magma. Magma seems to provide less cushioning than water. And then they burn. Suggest making irrationally large (200-300z or so) drops into various depths of water to test cushioning effect. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 04:44, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:It's worth noting that layers of water in previous versions did not cushion your fall so much as the depth of the water didn't increase it. I.e. the drop damage was calculated by the amount of air you fell through. Is that a possibility here? --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 05:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::This appears to be actual cushioning. Creatures fell 5-6z before hitting the water and falling another 3z. If the water simply didn't count, they'd have splatted as normal for a 6z fall. Instead they were unharmed and seemingly unaware that they should swim to safety. Or merely unable to. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 16:41, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

== Contamination ==

I've built a very large reservoir (currently 30x25x4 approx) on some ground that had mountain goat blood on it. There is also a small amount of mountain goat and dwarf blood on the area around the reservoir. On overflowing the reservoir (which is fed from the top by a "clean" source), I get blood EVERYWHERE the water flows, seemingly on evaporation of the water. There's now far more blood spread around than the creatures had originally... anyone seen similar? --[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 21:21, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
: I did some arena tests with blood and water. apparently adding a 7/7 tile of water on top of a pool of blood creates more pools of blood which are pushed out to the edges of the water as it moves. This behavior may be a bug. There is an open ticket about the subject on the bug tracker here with my full results. [[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=296]] - [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:31, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
: This appears to be fixed in 31.16 [[User:GhostDwemer|GhostDwemer]] 00:05, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

:: I'm grumbling a bit at my water reservoir. My Dwarves have apparently declared it to be contaminated and refuse to drink from it any more. This is especially annoying since I was quite careful to make sure not to let any dead animals fall into the reservoir, it should all be nice clean water. But for some reason, it is not. I'm curious if anybody has any useful tricks to help prevent this issue. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 13:56, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

== Verifications of old behavior ==

*U-bend test from a river fills to z-1 as expected
*U-bend test from a murky pool fills to z-1 as expected
*channeling directly from a river temporarily has no flow, but soon becomes naturally flowing as expected
*screw pump to a dead end one level above a river generates natural flow as expected
*Diagonal connections neutralize water pressure as expected
*Diagonal connections do not prevent the spread of flow as expected
*Reactor#3 built as a perpetual motion test -- behaves as expected

*some flow artifacts at the bottom of both U-bends -- this was always a bit quirky, but should run more tests
*screw pump from a murky pool in a 1x18 channel which doubles back to the murky pond generates reliable flow -- '''possible change in flow mechanics'''
*Screw pump from z-2 one level below the river, pushing into a 1x100 channel generates flow only near the end of the channel where the water is still filling. Behaves as expected, the previous test appears to be a fluke.

I'm running through a battery of tests here, I will update this with my results. The one surprise so far is the murky pool test. In 40d a similar test would quickly become saturated with 7/7 water and only indicate flow at the end of the channel. need to test that more to make sure this isn't a fluke. I will continue to update this as I verify more things. Once I have a bit more information I'll start updating the water pages. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:26, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

: Ran a new variation of the long channel flow test using a level drop this time to break the natural flow effect from the river. This time I got the expected result of many tiles of still water with a small amount of flowing water near the end of the channel where it had not yet filled. This does however mean I'm using pressurized water this time which might be worth a bit more investigation. This also demonstrates the simplest form of water teleportation which is what is believed to be why flow of this nature fails to appear. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 19:53, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

== Springs? ==

Reading this article mentions that water can come from springs... and it's linked. I hadn't heard of this before, so I followed the link and it redirected to Calendar; it meant springtime. I removed the link for now, but do water-springs occur? Someone who knows either remove the term in this article or work on the Spring page. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 04:33, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:"Springs" probably refers to mountain brooks. At the head of each brook, there is a spidery section of water, and at the end of each "finger" of water there is a "river source" tile that can be viewed with {{k|k}}. These are infinite sources of water, and probably what the article refers to.[[User:JohnnyMadhouse|JohnnyMadhouse]] 04:43, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:: the source of many rivers is a spring, it's a weird spidery looking thing that is a direct source of water. They can sometimes be found on open plains. They are often found deep in the mountains. If you have one in your embark map, they have some odd properties as discussed in the wiki. They will have a number of tiles that are treated as water sources, which will constantly and rapidly refill to 7/7 water providing and endless supply of water. a collapse above these tiles will break this effect. This is different from the much more common behavior of off map water sources where you have and edge of map tile that will constantly refill. Edge of map tiles cannot be destroyed. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 15:41, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
::: Well thanks for the answer... someone might want to make a Spring(Water) page as opposed to the Spring(Season) page... Either one of you guys prolly could... I don't have any firsthand knowledge, so I prolly shouldn't. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 00:48, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

== fortifications on map edge to drain fluid away ==
They say you can designate fortifications on edge tiles to drain fluid off the map. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 13:44, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
: You can't dig out an edge tile. If there is solid ground there it is there to stay. Just to double-check I even tried to carve fortifications out of an edge tile. as expected, it doesn't work. You can smooth and engrave the wall if you so wish but cannot otherwise remove or alter it. However in underground complexes it is common to have open spaces at the edge of map. In this case you can choose to place walls (or fortifications) right up at the edge of the map. On the surface of the world where caravans travel, you may not place any structures within 5 tiles of the edge. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 17:37, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
:: Actually, I've done the fortification trick. If you smooth the edge wall, you can carve fortifications in it and use it to drain an infinite amount of water/magma. [[Special:Contributions/64.255.180.84|64.255.180.84]] 16:16, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
::: Even in version 0.31? It's well known that this was possible in 40d (though only with water), but some things have changed since then. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
:::: Smoothing it first you say? I'll have to verify that later, if true that's useful to know. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:16, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
:::::Works fine, if you do this to a wall at waterlevel in a cavern near a part of the edge that generates water you can create real easy power supplies.--[[User:MLegion|MLegion]] 09:24, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

== Freezing documentation? ==

Source water that freezes in colder months won't freeze if piped to an underground area. Rather, the source will freeze, but the water already underground won't become ice. I made an elaborate magma heating system, only to realize that it actually wasn't needed.

== Communicating vessels don't work ==

I've tested it with a very simple two z layers setup (see below), and it doesn't seem to work. I think this should be a bug.
Because it provides many interesting engineering and opportunities for fun.

The setup is two pools separated by a wall, which are channeled below them, without a wall separating them. Filling one should raise the water level in the other.
The profile is like this:
<pre>Level Z: ====# #
Level Z-1: #=======#
Level Z-2: #########
</pre>
The right part in level Z should have water too.
[[Special:Contributions/89.141.113.238|89.141.113.238]] 20:00, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

== Murky pool + rain = no evaporation ==

Beware: water from a [[murky pool]] appears to never evaporate in the rain. Free-flowing, unconstrained water will stay at level 1; the rain will add to the perma-water and cause it to spread horizontally.

The effect seems to be tied to the original tiles of the pool. I used such a pool to irrigate a subterranean farm plot. Even indoors, the water never evaporated and spread further into my fortress, until I managed to wall off the farm from the original pool tiles.

I was only able to do construct such a wall by knocking out more boundary walls of the pool, toward some open plains. This allowed newly-fallen perma-water to flow away from my farm long enough to build a wall. Unfortunately I appear to be on an embark where it never stops raining; six years in, the level-1 perma-water has spread to cover an area of about 70x40. It has spread in a large circle (bounded by other walls of my mountain) with the original murky pool site at its center. I have never seen any tiles evaporate or recede. --[[User:Squeaky|Squeaky]] 22:00, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Is your TEMPERATURE: ON? Maybe there's a bug in it relating to the necessary heat to evaporate water. Try to take some water from this pool and ponding it elsewhere and see if it evaporates for the good of !!SCIENCE!!-Anon 16 December 2010

: While this is uncommon, it is not unusual. It's a safe bet that you are in a wet jungle biome. A nice wet/warm biome and murky pools refill VERY quickly. They refill so quickly in fact that like you described, they just never stop dumping new water into your fort. Assuming it's not already a lost cause, you can probably get control of this situation by cutting a nice channel to control the flow of water long enough to get some walls up and contain the flooding. --[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 13:55, 18 February 2011 (UTC)