Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d Talk:Eerie glowing pit

2009-10-16T23:32:59Z

Drunken dwarf:

{{spoiler}}

== The Demons ==

How powerful ARE the demons now? I gather that a pit chamber will release piles of them, but how many and how nasty are they all? Wonder if adamantine is really worth it... though if you've planned it out, I suppose it might be. Wonder how many demons a legendary dwarf warrior wielding masterwork adamantine weapons and armor could take out by himself!

:They're as nasty as they used to be. -- [[User:Zaratustra|Zaratustra]] 11:38, 20 November 2007 (EST)

:I had repulsed the initial wave of 1 Daemon and 7 Spirits of Fire by 5 marksdwarves and 4 axedwarves. 2 marksdwarves and 2 axedwarves were Elite in full steel chain/plate, others - on their way to it. Lost all axedwarves and 1 marksdwarf in the process. A few seasons later I thought that there weren't much more daemons and breached the pits in a new spot. By that time I had 3 Champion marksdwarves in Fortress Guard (not controllable at all :( ), ~20 wardogs, 4 other marksdwarves, 2 of which - Elite and 4 axedwarves/hammerdwarves at about 'competent' each. All the civilians (90 of them) were drafted into military with some extra weapons and no armor including ~10 miners from Legendary to novice with picks. The aftermath in the units screen is 16 dead Spirits of Fire including 7 from the initial attack, 10 live and happy Spirits of Fire with '''very''' long names, probably some more Spirits of Fire in ambush/invisible to me state and 5 recruits resting and dehydratated in remote corners of my bedroom area. There were immence lags when my stockpiles cathed fire and it were heavily lagging when I got there in adventure mode. --[[User:Another|Another]] 15:05, 20 November 2007 (EST)

:I just recently breached a pit, only to result in my entire fortress virtually being annihilated, 109 military dwarves were killed, including a Hammerlord with a legendary adamantine hammer, a mortally wounded Legendary Captain of the Guard, and the daemons lost only 50 total. --[[User:Naze|Naze]] 23:19, 12 December 2007

:I cleansed a demon pit that included exactly 30 fire spirits and a demon. I built a corridor to the chamber, filled it with spikes and chained them to a lever, with the pull lever/R action. It worked quite well despite the fact that my spikes were melt by the demons as they approached. They eventually had to go through a corridor where marksdwarves were stationned. They killed 5 marksdwarves, and some managed to enter my fortress undetected. I was VERY lucky because the fortress guard was useful! If you disable TEMPERATURE, they will be destroyed with no sweat. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 09:01, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:If you re-site your barracks to just outside the pits, then your fortress guard will find themselves joining the front line... [[User:YayTheDwarves|YayTheDwarves]] 09:58, 11 January 2008 (EST)

: from Lumpen on SomethingAwful: "Last night I cracked into the glowing pits and massacred the demons by filtering them through a massive maze of twisting fortifications through which my legendary siege operators unleashed a hail of over a hundred ballista arrows cranked out by 6 ballistae." So, that could work. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 12:19, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

:I broke into the pitlast night, and beforeI could close it up, frog demons were across my cut of adamantine viens. I sent very little, but very strong people down there, as I only had about 39 dwarves :D. They killed them no sweat. They had abit trouble with a demon. There was only about 10 of the that came from the pit. I was quick to seal up where the whole where the demons came out of, yet my fortress still being able to get in.

== Magma mini-pipes/vents? ==

Are the magma bits considered unconnected, and thus will cool to obsidian, or are they in effect pipes/vents and will refill via the new code? --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 23:29, 26 February 2008 (EST)

:there is no such thing as disconnected magma solidifying. that was added for some reason by someone to the wiki a long time ago but is incorrect. magma that is not connected anything will stay magma forever. the only way to turn it into obsidian is by adding water -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 05:15, 27 February 2008 (EST)

::Although, to be fair, depth 1 magma will cool to, um... air or something. At any rate, if you let it get to depth 1 it evaporates, much like water. Except more frustrating, because it's very slow to begin with.--[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 03:36, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

:::Twas cooling in 2D. And what about refilling?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 02:20, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::What? Magma didn't ever cool in 2D, except for the special event that sometimes occurred on breaching the magma river.
::::ah, the magma river. The name brings back such memories...
::::--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:10, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Rewalling/Flooring ==

If you floor over the glowing pit rather as opposed to rewalling do the demons still spawn? [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 18:18, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

:No, reflooring still can release demons. Tested the hard way. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:31, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

:Additionally, building walls over every glowing pit tile still releases demons. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 00:18, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

== First encounter ==

A creature I am developing, called the solen, was tested today using these. That is, demons. And the interesting thing is, fourteen have slaughtered--so far--about...

20 tentacle demons, 5 daemons.

Shall I upload pics of the room, its contents, and the glowing pit itself? Also I think this should be moved to ''Eerie Glowing Pit'', as that's what it really is. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 17:21, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

:I like the move idea. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:10, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Captives ==

what happens if you free the captives in a glowing pit after surviving the demon onslaught? --[[User:0todd0|0todd0]] 02:08, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:dunno, think they just go around babbling or somesuch :\ --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 04:32, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::They are all insane, mostly melancholy. If you unhook them, they just act like melancholy dwarves and wander around or throw themselves in the pit. Poor guys :( --[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 13:28, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Unchained humanoids? ==

The article talks about caged/chained humanoids.

Well, I have so far breached two pits. One had a floor of caged humanoids. That was the most recent one, which I breached carefully (and with cheating).

The first one, I breached with stairs (which was dumb, because they couldn't be stopped at that point by rewalling). Inside the chamber there were at least 40 '''unchained''' melancholy/crazy humanoids. They immediately started trying to flee, along with the demons. The initial wave of "refugees" lagged my fortress to the pits and back. They were free to begin with.

has this happened to anyone else?
[[User:Logical2u|Logical2u]] 11:35, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

:: Well, I breached my first pit ever last night. Thing was 4 stories, connected by stairs all the way to the lowest Z-Axis level. 3 floors FULL of Elves and Humans caged/chained. My Fortress pretty much lagged up into infinity at that point. It's gotten a little better, but it's still pretty bad. I appreciate the asthetic value, but good lord I hope Toady changes some of this in the future. Either let SOME of the Humans and Elves vamoose back to wherever they initially came from (I bet it's a funny story how they ended up in a glowing pit being tortured by unimaginable horrors from the deep....), or make a good point out of them trying to get a 10/10 on their headfirst dive into magma. [[User:Archaeologist|Archaeologist]] 00:53, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:::They've been driven to insanity and care about nothing anymore. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 01:28, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:::: So how do we get rid of the little lag monsters? Wait, nevermind, the sudden wave of tentacle monsters killing EVERYTHING seems to have been more than adequate. [[User:Archaeologist|Archaeologist]] 02:43, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::::: Well, my tentacle demons killed nothing (apart some marksdwarves), and I still got '''104''' (not kidding, there's more than 5 pages of them in the "u" menu) elves, dwarves and humans babbling around. How am I supposed to kill them all ? Most of them are still in the chamber, and because of the adamantine veins I can't force myself to flood it with magma, create a cave in or something like that. It will be fairly complicated to kill them with the dwarven atom smasher too... Do you have any ideas ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 15:18, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::[[Ballista]]e --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 15:34, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
::::::Time. Leave it a season and they'll all starve or die of thirst. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:11, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, they can do that ? Even if it's, err, NPC ? The merchants never die of thirst or starve, for instance. Anyway, it's "great". :) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
::::::::They can do that! Don't know about diplomats etc, but the chained humanoids - i.e. anything labelled "From the Deep" in the {{K|u}} menu - can definitely starve, as of 40d. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 19:31, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
::::::::Confirmed. Refugees are physically unharmed but all insane and wearing nothing but filth, blood, and stains. My refugees all died about two months later, all on the same week, except the caged ones. Evidently insanity means forgetting to drink when you're thirsty. The tortured dwarves were laid to rest with proper dwarf coffins by my citizens. The elves...were added to the bonepile. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 20:25, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::I did a few tests and it seems that only tentacle demon pits contain prisoners on every level (along with the depraved engravings and filth, slime, and unknown substances) - frog demon and SoF pits only contain prisoners on the lowest level. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:06, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

== Water? ==

Anybody know if pumping the glowing pit full of water will affect the demons? I've started a fortress to try it out, but it's slow going(I'm really more of a modder as DF goes).
*Demon leaders, frog demons, and tentacle demons can all swim, and spirits of fire are so hot that they'll boil the water from several tiles away, so flooding the pit is all but useless (aside from possibly drowning the chained prisoners). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:22, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

== [[Sphere]]s ==
A bit of research has revealed that the actual contents of each level of the glowing pit are determined by the [SPHERE] tags on the [[Demon]] entity (bottom level only) and on the Tentacle Demon/Frog Demon/Spirit of Fire entities (all other levels):

* [SPHERE:FIRE] - ashes + charcoal, pools of magma
* [SPHERE:WATER] - pools of water
* [SPHERE:MUCK] - muddy floors, vermin
* [SPHERE:DEPRAVITY] - engravings of depraved acts, general filth
* [SPHERE:THRALLDOM] - unchained prisoners
* [SPHERE:TORTURE] - caged and chained prisoners, corpses + body parts + chunks + meat + skins on pikes/in cages/on floor, pools of blood
* [SPHERE:DEATH] - engravings of death and suffering, bones, bone meal, skulls on pikes

It's very much possible to combine these spheres in other ways for interesting results - for example, giving a demon both FIRE and WATER spheres will give their pit levels pools of both water '''and''' magma. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:44, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

== Demon Count ==

In my first fortress to uncover HFS, I got 1 red demon and 20 spirits of fire, while in my current fortress I got 1 red demon and 30 spirits of fire. Trying to figure out exactly what determined the demon count, I took a closer look at the two and discovered that while my current fortress had 3 floors worth of charcoal and ashes above the "torture pit", my last fortress had only 2 such floors - thus, it would appear that each "minion" floor contains ten minion-type demons (or simply causes 10 to be spawned within the entire region the instant the chamber is breached). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:52, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

==Spawning?==

Do glowing pits spawn demons? or do they just contain them?--[[User:Drunken dwarf|Drunken dwarf]] 23:32, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Siege

2009-10-03T06:18:43Z

Drunken dwarf: /* Troll squads */

===Trigger?===
Just noticed that I got my first (Goblin) siege at 100000 wealth. Anyone else confirm that this is the trigger? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 00:06, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:I had my first goblin siege at about 600k wealth. They sieged me at 15 levels above ground level, where I had a stairway to my fortress. They loitered around for a season and left. [[User:Kaivosukeltaja|Kaivosukeltaja]] 07:31, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::Thanks. I removed my addition from the article. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:35, 9 November 2007 (EST)

I think part of the trigger is killing a Goblin. I'd captured several Goblin thieves, but it was only after I'd dispatched them that I was besieged. So, (wealth > certain amount) and (has killed Goblins) maybe? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 23:09, 12 November 2007 (EST)

Actually, according to Toady (http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000033), Goblins will start sieging now roughly around 80 dwarves and/or some odd amount of wealth.

:I had 3 goblin snatchers show up at a population of 40 dwarves and created wealth of 63,793 (v0.27.169.33g). --[[User:Frond|Frond]] 22:17, 16 January 2008 (EST)

I think that the trigger amount is off by a bit- I just received my first siege, by goblins, at 57 population and about 411,000 wealth. --[[User:Linktoreality|Linktoreality]] 04:58, 18 February 2008 (EST)

I'm playing at 50 pop cap (performance reasons) and in 6 game-years of play + 2mil wealth I haven't had any sieges yet. --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 17:14, 3 March 2009 (EST)

== Troll squads ==

I had 3 troll squads of exactly 8 trolls in each during a siege. Had a goblin king that time but no beak dogs. Can it be that no beak dogs in goblin civ=better chance for trolls?
:I been sieged at least half a dozen time in my current fortress, and I've never encountered trolls or anything bigger than skilled goblins. In my latest siege, all the goblins are specialized in something but I have no trolls or wolves or whatever to show for. Any idea on this behavior? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:16, 26 November 2007 (EST)
::Apperently they haven't access to any chasm biome for trolls and to whatever biome for beak dogs.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:42, 26 November 2007 (EST)

::Does anyone know what the entity_default tag is that allows goblins to bring trolls with them? --[[User:Drunken dwarf|Drunken dwarf]] 06:18, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

== Mounts ==

Woe betide those who anger humans. I added a second human race with [BABYSNATCHER] instead of [SIEGER] for barbarian raiding action. When they sieged, every last one of them was riding a horse. When I approached the buggers kept running away and going all Parthian shot on me, too. It was pretty bad ass. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:23, 10 November 2007 (EST)
:Oh snap, it's the Mongols. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 14:48, 7 March 2009 (EST)
::More like the Iranians(or Persians if you like)[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_shot] [[User:Shoez|Shoez]] 02:27, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

== Still bugged? ==

Are sieges still bugged in 33b? If someone knows for certain, could they add the version number to the statement in the article? Ta. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 19:52, 18 November 2007 (EST)

i just got siege and i think the bug is still there cause just redownloaded it for erroring reasons...the goblins just sit there and wait for something...
im wondering if (thanks to the bug) the goblins well just die of thirst or something?? or well just o away?

:Yup, still bugged. Toady needs to rewrite the siege AI, 'tis not a simple bug. Goblins will go away on their own after a while, but that beats all the fun. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 15:04, 21 November 2007 (EST)
::Some people suggested on the forum building siege engines near the golin groups and fire to them to death. I'm trying to do just that in my current game. Alternatively, I think there is a flag in the init file where you can disable sieges. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:33, 21 November 2007 (EST)
:Has anyone looked into changing the raws for the goblins to have them a similar behavior to werewolves and other predatory creatures? They roam around the map looking for something to kill, and while they might not stay together in a squad, or move toward your base directly, at least they would do *something*... if it works. Any thoughts? --Gotthard 12:24, 30 November 2007 (EST)

:As of 33g I think they're still somewhat bugged. They will charge but if they find something to attack, it seems like their AI turns off and they stop on the spot. So I guess as long as you don't give them anything to attack on the way to your front gate, they will work fine. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 22:45, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Siege as a blockade ==

"A siege is a military blockade of a city or fortress with the intent of conquering by force or attrition, often accompanied by an assault. The term derives from the Latin word for "seat" or "sitting."[1] A siege occurs when an attacker encounters a city or fortress that refuses to surrender and cannot be easily taken by a frontal assault." --wikipedia

A siege isn't just a blind charge into your cage traps, either.
[[User:Moller|Moller]] 14:38, 3 December 2007 (EST)

My last few goblin seiges, have been actual seiges, instead of running around into my traps. The first of 3 squads ran in, about half fell victim to my traps, then ran, then the other 2 squads have been just waiting outside my fort, for 3 months and counting. [[User:OmegaX]] 15-September-2008
:Just to check, you didn't do anything that would break their pathfinding like triggering cave-ins, locking doors, or raising bridges? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:41, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
They left after a season, but there were no pathfinding issues, the fort was open, just waiting for them. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 21:10, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

==Best way to counter sieges?==
So far, the best way I've found to counter sieges is to create a line of traps all around the map. You can't build them just next to the border of the map, only 5 or 6 squares away from it... However, goblins still walks around a little and often hit the traps. It's hard to create enough casualties in this way to stop them, but they hardly ever leave without giving me free stuff and free kills. :)
Alternatively, setting up balistas or catapults in front of them and firing away is also very rewarding. Too bad it's almost impossible to do without forbidding your dwarves from fetching everything outside, which usually mean that they'll get in the way even if you manage to forbid everything in time. I wish there was a way to allow military dwarves to operate siege engines...--[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:47, 3 December 2007 (EST)

: I agree. Traps are a great thing. I also save VERY often, and when a siege occurs, I will 'force quit' and revert to a previously saved game. Then I make all my dwarves soldiers and give them time to pick up their equipment. This has proven very successful.--[[User:Keesto|Keesto]] 23:46, 5 September 2008 (EDT) Later...I have found that traps are the best/only defense. I have set up about 200 cage traps around the map, and also 20 stone fall traps around the entrances. Soldiers are only useful to me now when I release the goblins from their cages- in confined spaces -for a mass slaughter. Very satisfying.

== Human Leader / Mercenary? ==

I got my third or fourth goblin siege in the current game, and they arrived with a Human Spearmaster in one of their squads. Anyone else got this? Is it worth mentioning in this page?
:Confirmed: third siege. One of invaders is Human Macelord. He is a best attraction at my zoo right now :). Think, i'll add this. Whoops... someone already has :)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:33, 16 January 2008 (EST)
::My roommate had one in a group of ambushers. He was wearing a human leather earring, so that's lovely ;) --[[User:FloodSpectre|FloodSpectre]] 20:04, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

== Nifty defense plan ==

On an unrelated note, I figured a pretty nifty way to kill a lot (or all) of a siege by making an outdoors gatehouse with marksdwarves on the battlements... except instead of making it face OUT, I make it face IN, so I let the enemy inside and they get totally annihilated, as they are shot as soon as they appear :)

Something like this:
<pre>
########
=bolts=#
######@#
+@# g
+@# g
g +@# <- goblins on ground floor come this way
+@# g
+@# g
######@# g
=bolts=#
########
</pre>
This work specially well again enemy shooters, they don't even get a chance to shoot back (and it seems it's nearly impossible to hit my dwarves on higher ground AND behind fortifications).

--[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 23:23, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I recently tried a system like that, where the entrance hall is two floors tall, and I have a marksdwarf barracks on the floor above. They shoot plenty of goblins, and of course I have about 60 stonefall traps there too. I watched laughing as 66% of the goblins thought "AAAH RUN AWAY" and they retreated like sissies :D --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 11:25, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Stealth Sieges ==

It seems that in the new version that sieges don't give announcements anymore. I was still getting my fortress together when one of my woodcutters was ambushed by 10 or so goblins. They proceeded to charge my fort and get killed by the merchants and dogs. Then like 30 seconds later the second wave appeared unannouced at my door. The merchants were in no shape to stand against them and the dogs were all dead. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 15:31, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:This sounds more like an [[Ambush|ambush]] than a siege. I've had four seemingly seperate goblin ambush squads all assault my fortress at the same time (four seperate "An ambush! Curse them!"s), each of which was a lot more dangerous than my first siege! -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:00, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== quote from toady, december 27 ==
(so maybe parts of it changed)

"Humans and elves will come some time after they are angry enough at you.

Kobolds will start sending thieves once your pop hits 20 or you've traded a bit (value 500) or you've produced a bit more (value 5000). If they successfully steal objects, they'll come back with more thieves, and if they continue to be successful, they'll bring (buggy) archers. The power of the next attack is based only on how many objects were stolen during the last raid. They'll start sending archers if three or more objects are stolen.[]..they can send as many as 17 thieves and 36 archers, but this is incredibly unlikely. If the stolen object number is five or more, they'll start sending important historical figures.

Goblins start sending kidnappers when your population has hit 50 or you have traded a bit or produced a bit more (5x the kobold numbers). Once your population hits 80, they'll start to send more serious attacks instead of kidnappers on occasion. The numbers sent during the serious attacks depend only on how many attacks you've been through. If they have mounts or monsters(trolls?), they'll start using them on the second attack, with multiple monster packs on the third. Important historical figures also come with the third attack, but master weapon users can come on the second. Important kidnappers come on the second kidnapping attempt.

All of this will be obsolete once I get the armies working properly on the world map, though there will still have to be some artificial mechanism in place to stop early forts from being wiped out."

:Good, then I shall start war with the elves because there are no goblins.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 18:22, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

== Human Sieges ==

I am, right now in v0.28.181.39b, being besieged by about 14 humans, one of which is on a horse carrying a bow. "An enemy is laying siege" or some such came up instead of the usual "A vile force of darkness has arrived". Even stranger is that they built ''A Campfire'' and are just milling about around it. There is a clear path straight into the heart of my fortress. There is no sign of war on the civ screen. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 09:21, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
 It's even worse than that! They're actually doing siege tactics - they sit in their camp until someone goes outside, at which point they all set off to kill that poor sot. Then they return to camp. If it's not outside, they don't care. They also don't seem to be affected by any of my traps. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 11:52, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
:just wait until the campfire has burned down and then they will move to the fortress as the goblins do. It might take a while, so no need for hurry. I only had two human sieges in my current fortress until now, but they seem to increase in numbers as the goblins do.
:*first year: ~10 humans, not mounted, campfire
:*second year: ~20 humans, 2 squads, mounted. 1 squad with campfire, the second one just waited and had no campfire. After a while, they moved to the fortress, but not both squads at once.

:In my case (v0.28.181.39c), they were affected by my 2 weapon traps. At least at the second siege when they were mounted, during the first one when they had no horses, I had no traps, so I don't know if this has an effect.

:The text of the human siege is "The enemy have come and are laying siege to the fortress"

: In my fort the human guild representative died and once a caravan was slaughtered by an ambush.
:[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 18:24, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

::now in the 3rd year, a human diplomat arrived instead of the next siege and he offers the following options:
::''Peace is calling out to us. How do you respond?''
::Enter: ''I hear her voice. Let us stop this war.''
::Space: ''We will drown her out with the screams of your dying. Begone.''

::As I'm a beginner, as far as wikis are concerned, it would be nice if someone could update the article.
::[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:34, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
:::I've added it in, although I'm also a n00b at this wiki stuff, and kept forgetting important stuff. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:22, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::::thanks. As there aren't many reports about human sieges right now, it is a good start. -[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 03:09, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

: I have also received a human siege (v0.28.181.39e). Accidentally had the merchant diplomat locked in my fort - he 'left unhappy' (but he and the caravan were otherwise unscathed.) First summer - 10 unmounted humans; second summer - 50 humans, all mounted. Their campfire died down in Fall - it is now mid-Winter and they still haven't entered my fort. Instead they ride their horses in circles outside my gate. I have tried to bait them with expendable dwarfs but they just take them out with crossbows. Dwarven caravan did not even attempt to come in the Fall; also, no goblins or kobolds have dared to raid during the siege. All in all, a pretty effective siege as I do not have yet a military capable of attacking. (3rd year of fort). By the way, when the first siege force arrived I had fewer than 80 dwarves.
:[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 21:27, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

My guild rep died somehow, not really sure what caused it, though my relations before that were fairly good with the humans, aside from a caravan seize once, and when they came back I gave them gifts and large profit margins. Anyways, now theres a seige, I dont see a campfire, but they're definately waiting, eventually they marched into my fort, AVOIDING all the non-cage TRAPS. Cage traps got a few, but they evaded my corridor with 20 weapon traps, and 40+ Stone-fall traps, all loaded and ready. Without a single injury. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 02:13, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

:: I remember something about the human merchants and/or guild representatives looking at traps when visiting the fortress, and making them useless against the human siegers. Great ! Now we have Human spies and diplomats, Goblins blitzkrieg, Kobold snipers and Elven commando. Can't wait for Elephant paratroopers and Giant cave spider artillery. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 16:21, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Operation Dumbo Drop and Starship Troopers?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:27, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
::::[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20081211.html Rule 11: Everything is air-droppable at least once] --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:21, 13 December 2008 (EST)

== Avoidable? ==

I just had my first siege in my current fortress, and happened to save right before it started, like 1 or 2 steps before. The goblins killed all of the dwarven caravan that they arrived with, so I reloaded and there was no siege. I haven't been very long in this no-siege alternative univers, so I want to know if it will happen slightly later, or if I have avoided it completely. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:39, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

I just got ambushed, with an elite bowman along with the group, nut definitely not as many goblins as the siege.this is kinda weird. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:48, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

== What about constructed walls? ==

The page says trolls will smash all buildings. But what about constructed walls? The Construction page says constructed walls/floors act as inert terrain objects. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 05:10, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
:[Building Destroyer]s like trolls ignore constructs like walls and floors, they only smash things like doors and bridges. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:22, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
::Ok, thanks. That was causing me some confusion. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 17:34, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

== Megabeasts ==

Could someone update my add-on about megabeasts? It was lacking info about them but it's pretty general right now. --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 16:30, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
:Could use an update, indeed! It's verified in the advanced world gen parameters that world generation stop is based on percentage of surviving megabeasts (default 80%), and that number can be modified when creating a world with advanced parameters (I myself typically lower it to 60%, in hopes of more roving hydras for my fortress to face). I would also write a few words about cage traps and the dangers they present to a fortress, as I once had a caged titan break out of his cage and lay waste to the inner sanctum of a fortress. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 17:55, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

===Megabeast Trigger ===

So, I'm in my 9th year with a population of 79 and haven't seen a megabeast yet, despite over 5 million in fortress wealth. I'd say the trigger has to be population and not wealth. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:50, 5 December 2008 (EST)

:: I'm on my 16th year, with a population of 201 and a created wealth of 1,330,775 ... no signs of a megabeast. --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 16:16, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== Mining ==

Is it possible for a human siege to mine into your base? I've played around in adventure mode and seen (and killed) a few human miners, so I was wondering if the humans were ever smart enough to bring one along and tunnel into your base. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 10:42, 9 November 2008 (EST)

Not yet, unfortunately. Rock walls and constructions of any type remain impervious. They can't fill in dry moats yet, either. Fortunately for the humans, a dwarf fortress can't survive indefinitely without imports, migrants, or fresh lumber, and human besiegers tend to be more cautious than goblins, so they can still endanger your survival indirectly. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 12:36, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:Currently my fortress is pretty well self sustaining, though due to pathfinding errors my dwarves refuse to take the inside stairs to my exploratory mining chamber. I'm at my population cap (130) and my food and drinks are fairly stable at 200 seeds, 500 alcohol, 600~700 prepared meals, and 300 plants. At the very least, I'm (very lucky to be) prepared for the next human siege (the first one was a group of pansies who managed to get killed without me noticing (long story short, I assigned my squads to a mountain near the humans for the high ground, and some crossbowdwarves went around the long way and shot their way through the humans (who didn't have any crossbowmen, at least not after the first volley of dwarven bolts) and left only a few for cleanup.

:Oh, did I mention my ''War [[Giant eagle]]?'' The thing kicks MAJOR ass. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 16:53, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::You can't have a war giant eagle. Dogs are the only thing that can be trained to war animals. Brag if you like, we all do it, but don't lie. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:16, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::: I edited the raws to make it trainable. And don't say that can't be done, they tell you how to do it (for elephants, but still) on this very Wiki.[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 17:19, 9 November 2008 (EST)

::::War eagles do sound pretty cool. Do their heads always face left, by the way?[http://www.snopes.com/history/american/turnhead.asp]--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:42, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Actually, I thought more along the lines of the SCREAMIN EAGLES! reference from Valve (it's what you get if you have feedback rank 10 on Steam, and the soldier shouts it in TF2, but I can't remember where it came from). You want to know the eagle's name, by the way? Tribeflags. Yeah, it's kind of a lame name, bu

''The above poster was found with this edit partially made, brutally mauled by a large bird like creature. If you wish to contact this person, consult the nearest dwarven shaman or bonespeaker. Thank you. '''Dwarven office of half finished notes cut short by death.'' [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 21:56, 9 November 2008 (EST)

==Goblin Morale==
Does anyone else find that the goblins have really bad moral? I just had 4 squads run away, because 3 goblins died. That wasn't even half a squad, and I really wanted the iron. Any thoughts on why they are so cowardly? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 21:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)

:It might be dependent on whether the squad leader gets killed. Hard to tell, though -- most battles are pretty chaotic.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:11, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::That might be it, the squad leader was the first to be cut in half by a trap :D [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 00:42, 5 December 2008 (EST)

:::ah, i was wondering why half of 'em ran off. 3 squads of goblins, two of about 10 and a main one of 15. after the first two had been anhialated (literally. not a scratch on any of my 20-strong crew), the larger squad started running away (or, diverted their path off to one side of the map, away from my fort), and the 'SIEGE' in the corner disappeared. but.. you'd have thought the leader would be in the main squad, right? it was a squad of 4 lashers (whip-users) and 11 wrestlers, with a single 'goblin spearmaster'. how can you tell who's the leader? and is it useful to chase them off? (apart from the obvious iron and such) perhaps stopping them coming back next time as part of a larger squad? --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 11:44, 7 March 2009 (EST)

== Siegers Listen to Orders ==
I can make my human siegers wait or not by changing orders; if dwarves are allowed to go outside, they will approach any usable entrances, but if I tell them to bunker down, they bugger off back to their campfires. "Pet Doors"(forbidden, pet-passable) are useful for this, since they allow siegers to approach but don't let dwarves outside to die.

==I Said Stay Inside!==
So I've taken the ramps off of a pair of hills, making them into circular towers of natural stone. Then I connected them with a wall. I put a door with a bridge over it to let me get through, and set it up so I could retract the bridge and isolate the second hill if necessary. I built a food stockpile and a meeting hall under the second hill. Then some goblins laid siege. I told the dwarves to stay inside. A squad of bowgoblins walked over to my wall. I didn't think this was a problem, until i started getting messages about dwarves bleeding to death. They were running across the wall to get to my backup food stockpile and meeting hall. Apparently they thought "I can't go outside, but the meeting hall isn't outside, so I should be ok to walk across this narrow walkway, completely exposing my silhouette to enemy fire. Y'know what, I'll take my baby with me." The only good thing was that the goblins were so busy shooting at my helpless dwarves and their pets that my pair of champion melee fighters were able to tear their flank a new one. Something should probably be updated to reflect that this can happen, but I don't know what and how. For now, I'll be widening the walls and lining them with fortifications. That should make them able to make the trip without dying, at least.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 07:49, 13 December 2008 (EST)
:I've also noticed this behavior with my Dwarves. It seems that they will always try and go to the meeting hall areas regardless of what the orders are. I have a meeting hall zone defined on some of my battlements in my current fortress and wondered why they would continue to mill about outside when I told them to go inside. After a while I just defined a new meeting hall underground and they started going inside. --[[User:Kuroneko|Kuroneko]] 16:41, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
::As has been mentioned somewhere else inside destinations are still valid in pathing. Fast dwarfs may also go a few tiles far before they cancel their task due to being outside. Also, I occasionally use outside meeting zones to lure dogs outside as guards (works fine) but have not yet had dwarfs go there too, or even try, when i had outside forbidden. Maybe it is because i always have inside meeting rooms/halls too. -- [[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 23:50, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

== Hungry, Hungry <s>Hippos</s> Goblins ==

So I have been collecting goblins from previous sieges and forcing them into an inescapable room with nothing restraining them, does anyone here know if they do eventually die uncaged? I want to set up a mega doomsday lever that lets 100+ goblins into my fortress.--[[User:Heliman|Heliman]] 23:32, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

== An End to Sieges? ==
Is there a limit to the number of attacks, or do they go on forever increasing. Personally i'm on my 19th year of a fortress
and haven't been attacked in about 2 years, no ambushes, no sieges. --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 22:03, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Creature token

2009-10-01T01:10:28Z

Drunken dwarf: /* HOW DO I SHOT WEB? */

==Children==
Does anyone know which tag cause an animal to breed? I believe it's either [CHILD:] or [CHILDNAME:][[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 18:18, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
*[CHILD:?] sets the age that a child becomes an adult, [CHILDNAME:?] sets what children are called, example, calf instead of bull. [[User:i2amroy|i2amroy]] 19 January 2009
*I can most definitely say the tag that allows breeding is [CHILD:]. [[User:Smew|Smew]] 26 April 2009

== HOW DO I SHOT WEB? ==
first, does [WEBBER] imply the ability to shoot web, make webs or both?
second (assuming the answer to at least one of the above is true), how would one use this in adventure mode?{{user:yrael/sig|DATE=12:45, 14 May 2008 (EDT)}}
*it adds the ability to shoot web, but creatures will only shoot web at other creatures they are hostile to.[[User:Moonman|Moonman]] 18:16, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
::Impossible to shoot webs in adventure mode--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 22:41, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

*It appears that one's chasm-dwelling WEBBERs (or perhaps THICKWEB creatures) leave webs outdoors and can be auto-collected and spun into silk. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 11:34, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

On a related note, can you breath fire or fly in adventure mode? it would be great to make dragons playable and go around exterminating [[hippies]] --[[User:Drunken dwarf|Drunken dwarf]] 01:10, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

== MAGICAL ==

I think this tag was meant for creatures not from natural origin. Its the same as Natural, but elves might react differently to it. 
-Booken 06:22, 26 April 2008 (EST)
*Looks like it makes the creature [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=24390.450 attract local wildlife in large numbers.]--[[User:Igfig|Igfig]] 21:01, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

== ITEMCORPSE ==

(see [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=000602 this forum thread])

[ITEMCORPSE:<type>:<subtype>:<material>:<matgloss>]

Does the sub-type field actually have a use, or is the only option "NO_SUBTYPE"?

Anyway, the USE_RACEGLOSS for the matgloss field seems to only work for some (built-in?) materials. For example, the [[Treant|Treants]] use the entry:
[HAS_RACEGLOSS:WOOD]
[ITEMCORPSE:WOOD:NO_SUBTYPE:WOOD:USE_RACEGLOSS]
[[Treant|Treants]] will appear as "Mahogany treant", "Oak treant", etc.

However, when using a custom matgloss file, this functionality stops working, and treants (and there log remains) are undescriptive. I've tried creating a ''matgloss_treant.txt'' file and adding a few unique entries, like [MATGLOSS_WOOD:FOOBAR_TREE] and [MATGLOSS_WOOD:BAZ_TREE], and editing the [Treant] to:
[HAS_RACEGLOSS:TREANT]
[ITEMCORPSE:WOOD:NO_SUBTYPE:WOOD:USE_RACEGLOSS]
...this doesn't seem to do anything. If I want the [[Treant]] to leave special remains, like my Foobar Tree, I have to change the creature tokens to:
[HAS_RACEGLOSS:TREANT]
[ITEMCORPSE:WOOD:NO_SUBTYPE:WOOD:FOOBAR_TREE]
But here, I can only have "Foobar treants".

:The subtype field has a use for types with subtypes; for example, weapons or vermin. See [[item tokens]] for the few item types that have subtypes.
:The "WOOD" in [HAS_RACEGLOSS:WOOD] isn't a user-definable category; it matches the "WOOD" in MATGLOSS_WOOD. So you could probably set it to [HAS_RACEGLOSS:WOOD], [HAS_RACEGLOSS:STONE], [HAS_RACEGLOSS:METAL], or [HAS_RACEGLOSS:PLANT], but that's it.
:[[User:Darekun|Darekun]] 22:21, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

== PACK_ANIMAL ==

Anybody happen to know anything about the [PACK_ANIMAL] tag? I noticed that [[muskox|muskoxen]], [[mule|mules]] and [[donkey|donkeys]] all share this distinction. I also noticed someone in the [[muskox]] page had said that muskoxen could serve as haulers. Has Toady implemented a tag for animal haulers and sneaked it past everyone? Perhaps they can only perform this function if they serve as a pet to haulers? Or is it simply that merchants can carry goods on them? [[User:Some1else|Some1else]] 01:05, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:It's only merchants, I believe. --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 21:31, 29 July 2008 (EDT)
::That's true for now, but it will probably have more importance when animal hauling is finally implemented... --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 10:18, 7 August 2009 (EST)

== VERMIN_ tags ==

Made a new creature with VERMIN_CHASM and it spit out an unrecognised token message in my errorlog. Can someone confirm these work? Preferrably by pointing to a creature that has them? --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 18:57, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

:thats leftover from 2d. bats and such used to have it, but now have a biome tag instead -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 19:09, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

::Thanks. Do we know if that applies to any of the others? --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 18:29, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Tried to make a dwarf mode playable race with the [VERMIN_HUNTER] tag, and they went hungry. Took it away and they ate normal food again. Seems that when this tag is in place, the race will ONLY eat vermin. Have noted this in the entry.18:22, 22 November 2008 (EST)

== Litter size ==

I've been testing the [LITTER_SIZE] token, and according to my tests it indeed affects the number of children. I set a creature to have 5-10 litter size and it did indeed produce 6 and 7 children, while another creature had 3-5 and produced 3-5 children. I'm gonna remove the "untested" tag from the wiki, feel free to tell me off if it proves otherwise.--[[IUser:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 23:14, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

== Redirect ==

In conformance with the [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community Portal|Community Portal]], I think this page should be moved to [[Creature tokens]]. It can keep the plural because people are usually concerned with all of the tokens instead of just one. Thoughts? --[[User:JT|JT]] 22:26, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

== defender ==

"DEFENDER Appears from the glowing pits after the magma river."

After the magma river? This seems to be left over from the 2d version, does this token still exist? If so we might want to adjust its description to the newest version
:Yeah, I just noticed that this entire article seems to have been copypasta-ed from the old version and not updated. There's a number of tags listed there that no longer exist, such as all of the RIVERATTACK_* tags. I'll stick an "old" template on the page for now, since it'll take some doing to go through all of the tags and verify that they still exist/do the same thing as they used to. But to answer your specific question, yes, the DEFENDER tag does still exist. It's just the magma river that doesn't. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 12:14, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
::Ok, I've had a bit of a search, and I've removed those tags which I've verified as non-existent. I should stress though that my search was not exhaustive, so it's possible that this article does still contain errors. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

== Body parts ==

It would be nice if there was a list of available body parts, ive been trying to make a new creature and am stuck using dwarven body parts... --[[User:High tech dragon|High tech dragon]] 22:59, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
:[[Body_tokens]] --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 08:28, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
::There is, of course, always the option to make your own body parts by editing the raws, though. Just make sure ''you know what you doing.'' </ayb> --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:02, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

== Weapons and sizes ==

I'm curious as to what tags allow or disallow the use of bows or crossbows. It seems like it could be that the stout tag disallows the use of bows, and the narrow disallows the use of crossbows, as I believe the races that have neither tag (humans, goblins) can use both weapons. Anyone confirm/deny/antithesize before I accidentally mess up my raws trying to find out? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 17:20, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
*All that it takes to add or remove the use of bows and crossbows is to add or remove the weapon tag from the entity file. Dwarves can't equip bows at the military screen even if you allow them to use them though, that is hardcoded. --[[User:i2amroy|i2amroy]] 19 January 2009

== Catgirls ==
I'm attempting to put a new creature into the game - specifically, catgirls. They have the COMMON_DOMESTIC token, but won't show up in the embark menu. As directed by the guy who made them, I put the code into the creature_domestic_humanoid.txt and the body parts into body_domestic_humanoid.txt and there aren't any errors on world generation, so I assume the coding is right. Any help for someone with no real idea of what they're doing? --[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 16:58, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
:OK, I put them into creature_domestic.txt this time, and they showed up, but they suffocated when I started playing. They have lungs, a throat and a mouth, so I can't think what they're missing. They're not aquatic or anything like that either, so I've no idea why they drowned. Here's the full code if you want to instantly pick out what I'm missing. [CREATURE:CATHUMAN]
[NAME:catgirl:catgirls:catgirl]
[TILE:'f'][COLOR:2:0:0]
[FEMALE]
[PETVALUE:400]
[INTELLIGENT]
[TRAPAVOID]
[EXTRAVISION]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC][BENIGN][PET]
[MISCHIEVIOUS]
[PREFSTRING:cat ears]
[BODY:2BIGEARS:HUMANOID:TAIL:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS
:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:
BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:6]
[MAXAGE:60:110]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:12][BABY:1][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
[FAT:1]
[EQUIPS]
[DIURNAL]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:10]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE]
[CANNOT_UNDEAD]
[PERSONALITY:ACTIVITY_LEVEL:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:ADVENTUROUSNESS:0:60:100]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:EXCITEMENT_SEEKING:25:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:ORDERLINESS:0:20:40]
[PERSONALITY:CAUTIOUSNESS:0:10:30]
--[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 12:17, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

They have no brain? They need a [Nothought] tag for that i think. You need to check the linkings in the body folder too to make sure everything's attached as it should be. If they still dont work just check through each of the tokens with the wiki and you should find the problem.
:They do have a brain and all the tokens seem to be fine. I added [CAN_LEARN] and [CAN_SPEAK] in case the [INTELLIGENT] tag was playing up, but it doesn't seem so. I'm a little stuck now, so I might have to go without catgirls for a while.--[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 08:41, 15 November 2008 (EST)

:If you want a quick fix, just add [NOBREATHE]! That'll let you check the bodyparts in game (and in 99.9% of situations, it'll be the same as a more in-depth fix.) Putting the ears before the main body token might be the problem.--[[User:Navian|Navian]] 13:52, 15 November 2008 (EST)

:Messing with the order of the body parts didn't do anything, so it'll have to be [NOBREATHE]. Ah well, thanks for the help. --[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 17:23, 16 November 2008 (EST)

::Yeah, there's something weird going on. They're still suffocating. I generated a new wold after saving the [NOBREATHE] tag and my catgirls are still suffocating. It seems that catgirls can defy even DF's questionable physics. --[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 17:33, 16 November 2008 (EST)

::I had a similar problem when attempting to introduce a novel species: They would spawn with no body parts and instantly suffocate (apparently you run out of oxygen before having to worry about a lack of blood or brains). The errorlog told me I'd mistyped the name for the main body. And then I forgot that you had to close DF and reopen it for the changes to take effect. But I digress. Two things: Firstly, those line breaks (if they're in the source) may be confusing the game. Try turning off "word wrap" or similar so that it's all on one line before saving it. Secondly, check the errorlog and see if it's throwing any errors. Make a world, embark to a site, let them all suffocate, and then open up errorlog.txt. You say there weren't any errors in worldgen, but seeing as you can apparently have 200-year-old civilizations of bodiless beings waging war and generally not dying due to massive everything failure, I don't think it checks for sanity until they appear on the sitemap.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 17:53, 16 November 2008 (EST)

:Yep, that's got it. Cheers! --[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 13:31, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:If I may, which "that" was the one that got it?--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 14:17, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:The word wrap. What a weird way to break a creature. --[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 17:36, 18 November 2008 (EST)

::Yeah, Notepad can be retarded like that. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:11, 18 November 2008 (EST)

==World Gen and Megabeasts==
Anyone know what controls how many megabeasts are spawned during world gen? I'm hoping its something in the creature tokens (like genpower) and thus easily moddable - just increasing DAMBLOCK doesn't seem to increase their longevity much, and I'd like to play in a world older than 50 years with a decent number of megabeasts remaining. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 04:03, 20 December 2008 (EST)
*I think it is hard coded. Currently the best way to have your megabeasts survive longer is move all of you megabeasts to their own text file and then copy it make sure that both files have the exact same name, no copy number 1 on the end or anything like that. In one version change their DAMBLOCK and SIZE to enormous numbers, like 100000. worldgen with this text file in the raws. Then switch the two text files. This should restore all of your megabeasts to normal power. --[[User:i2amroy|i2amroy]] 19 January 2009

::You mean that for a medium (for example) world there can never be more than 18 megabeasts? That's really lame... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 03:26, 20 January 2009 (EST)

About megabeast modding... after adding the TRAINABLE tag to some, and after one attacked and my Dungeon Master tamed it, we stopped having sieges. It's been 3 years now and we haven't even seen so much as a single thief or ambush. We count ourselves lucky to have continued to receive liaisons and caravans however. We're making plans to drop it into a bottomless pit to see if that fixes the problem however.
--[[User:Unseenmage|Unseenmage]] 04:31, 03 February 2009 (EST)

The megabeast burst into pieces against a ledge within the bottomless pit and that spring a vile force of darkness arrived. Problem solved.
--[[User:Unseenmage|Unseenmage]] 05:00, 03 February 2009 (EST)

== Elf Cannibals ==

I can't seem to find the tag that makes elves (supposedly) eat sentient creatures. As far as I can tell from the raws, they are not, in fact, cannibals. Can anyone give insight? --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 02:22, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
:Actually, it's the [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE] tag in the entity_default that lets them eat sentient creatures that they kill. They won't eat sentients they don't kill, due to the [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:UNTHINKABLE] tag.--[[User:Drake1500|Drake1500]] 04:50, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

== Ivory showing up as a trade item.==
The material spawn may be broken, but there could be a chance of it showing up as a trade item because I have a game where I got a Hippo Ivory bracelet off of a dwarven caravan that I deconstructed the depot on not too long ago.--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 19:04, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

== Biome ==

SAVAGE Determines whether creature can show up on "savage" maps.

"can"?! Doesn't this tag mean they ''only'' show up there? (Or at least that's where they start, and then meander around across the game map.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:05, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

== STOUT ==
"STOUT Creature has a resistance to being knocked over."

In DF Complete mod, the nords (north humans) have clothes like "stout Flax sandal", which seems to imply that STOUT is a equipment-tag like NARROW. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 11:29, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Insanity

2009-09-29T01:08:31Z

Drunken dwarf:

Actually, insanity doesnt always result in the death of the afflicted dwarf. A dwarf that goes berserk can survive if he succesfully kills all the other dwarfs in your fortress. This might be a realistic possibility for someone like a champion in full adamantium armor. [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 21:49, 30 November 2007 (EST)
* wouldn't that cause a game-over? Berserk dwarves are "hostile" like a goblin [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]] 22:30, 30 November 2007 (EST)
:A berzerk dwarf will not eat, drink, or sleep so even if it does not cause a game over, he will eventually starve. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 22:32, 30 November 2007 (EST)
:: What if you reclaim the fort after the he kills everyone? The berserk dwarf might still be standing around, just like sane dwarfs sometimes are if you abandon and then reclaim. [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:38, 30 November 2007 (EST)

i just recived the anouncment "muskox has gone stark raving mad" i have no dwararves named muskox, so can tame animals go mad?

* Yes. --[[User:Bombcar|Bombcar]] 17:02, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:I once had a trader AND his dromedary go into melancholy from being trapped on my map. I didn't actually see them, but traders had left some time ago, and I had no dromedaries. [[User:Drunken dwarf|Drunken dwarf]]

==Smoking Gnu's conundrum==

####
#WWW#
#W@W#
WWW#
###

W=Workshop
#=Constructed walls
@=Berserk dwarf

Conundrum: My food stockpiles are very close to the mad dwarf, so no one will approach them. The walls can't be taken down, due to the dwarves being to scared to do so. None of my military can access the mad dwarf, due to the walls. Even when in the military, my dwarves are interrupted before they can eat. How do I stop my fortress from starving? The winner gets to openly critisize my lack of common sense due to walling off a posessed dwarf near a food stockpile.--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 20:34, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:One possibility is simply to move operations away from the dwarf until he dies. I'd like to suggest drowning, but something tells me the dwarves digging out a waterway on the z-level above will be frightened off before they finish the job. The impatient leader might cave in the entire area to the next level and rebuild from scratch.[[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 23:01, 3 January 2008 (EST)

:Aside from using a utility to change the dwarf in some way (teleport, maybe?), I'm clueless. Nice conundrum.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:18, 4 January 2008 (EST)

::Excellent idea, fedor! The problem is, however, that the above figure is''above'' ground. I know I didn't mention this before, so you win! (Also, pretty much all of my food stockpiles were really close to the maddwarf and thus inaccessible, thus making it impossible to "mocve operations) I'll probably just hope my farms(which aren't close to the maddwarf) will yeild their crops soon, that way I'll be able to wit the dwarf out and deal with the tantrumers. P.S: Thanks Maximus, I hoped it would be a good conundrum!--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 11:15, 4 January 2008 (EST)

:Starting some distance away so dwarves do not get scared, build stairs up some distance into the sky. Marksdwarves will be able to shoot down over the wall of the workshop and kill him. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 19:29, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

...so, what're the details on Project Water Bow? I'm very interested. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:20, 5 February 2008 (EST)
:The guy took it off the page cause it's been discovered from several sources that water pressure has almost no effect on creatures. 1-2 squares at most, and that's probably an overstatement. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 02:22, 6 February 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Memory editing

2009-09-26T18:50:19Z

Drunken dwarf: /* Extra dwarves */ new section

I say, this is my first ever Wiki page so I hope I passes muster.
-Decanter

== Other methods ==

It is quite possible to write a program to preform any memory editing function.

I have a copy of teleport.exe that came with the source code(written in C), if anyone wants it for refrence.

== THANKS!!! ==

Thank you so much this was major help :D--[[User:Nerd10101|Nerd10101]] 23:49, 12 December 2007 (EST)

== Extra dwarves ==

does anyone know the adress for the number of dwarves you start with for V40d?

40d Talk:Cross-training

2009-09-20T07:01:27Z

Drunken dwarf: /* Pump operator notes */

=Pump operator notes=
Not sure the toughness note is really that important. The gym is just used for dwarven stat gains, so dwarves are beefy enough to excell at whatever you throw at them. It scarcely matters how well they pump, just so long as they get to Legendary to be reassigned to the military or something else. I've noticed gym graduates make fantastic hunters for example. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:47, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:Well, it makes pump-training far more effective for dwarves that are already tough: they can hit legendary in a season or two, where other dwarves take about a year. So if you have a finite number of dwarves you can spare for training, choose tough ones. Strong ones can be put in plate and made to spar, or turned into siege operators.

:Currently I'm training all my haulers, in shifts. Ones that gain toughness get to keep pumping until they're ready for the military. Strong ones get stone hauling duty. Everyone else gets food, item, or refuse duty.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:06, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:: I now give all my haulers the custom profession ''ROTC.'' --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 07:50, 8 November 2008 (EST)

::: I've been trying cross-training, and I'm not really seeing much point at the moment. The thing is, sparring practices three skills ''at the same time'': Armor user, the weapon you're using, and shield user. The gym's rate of stat gain is almost the same as regularly sparring dwarves. And military dwarves are useful for something. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 09:05, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

::::The "point" is several - 1) that some players don't want to put non-Attribute (or at least, non-Tough) dwarves directly into sparring; 2) that some players want military with more than "one-skill-worth" of training attributes under their belts; 3) that some players want to see what the attribute mix is on a dwarf ''before'' allocating to training (vs hauling/etc); and, 4) it's ''cross''-training. Military dwarves aren't useful for anything ''but'' military - that's the "cross" part. There are several suggestions other than pump operator - use them or not - your call. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:39, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

:::::Alright, I guess gym training just isn't for me. But as for the one skill worth of attribute training, I thought attributes continued to rise even after legendary + 5. Like an uber miner would eventually gain 16 attributes? That's what the stat page seems to indicate [[User:Greep|Greep]] 06:16, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

If you make two pumps, one above the other (Y axis, not Z), facing apposing directions, dig 2 channels at each end, making a 2X8 space, you can not only increase toughness and pump operator skill, but get happy [[waterfall]] [[thoughts]]. --[[User:Drunken dwarf|Drunken dwarf]]

=Dwarf Powered Mill notes=
Actually, it is better not to cook seeds. As seeds have quantity cap at 200 seeds for each plant, milling will not produce seeds after you hit the cap. It saves a visible amount of food hauler's work. [[User:Denspb|Denspb]] 02:58, 25 February 2009 (EST)

== Managing ==

Assigning a dwarf to manager may be even better than clerking. I had two useless dwarves. Assigned one to clerk, another to manager+broker. Disabled hauling jobs for the manager. I then went to the manager screen and queued up a full screen of "Make Soap x30." I chose soap because I don't even have an alchemist's workshop and I didn't want any jobs assigned to existing workshops and disrupting work flow. I lost track of how many times I had to go back in and cancel/re-issue the soap orders. The manager reached legendary while the clerk was still a pathetic high master. I didn't measure steps, but their offices and bedrooms were all very close together, should be around 5-10 steps difference for each dwarf to go get food/drink.

Other factors:
 -Clerk has a husband (no kids), manager is single
 -Clerk went on break at least once
 -Hauling was still enabled for the clerk, not sure if she did any jobs though
 -At the beginning, Clerk had no skills, Manager had Normal Skill Wood Carving (not much good on my treeless map)
 -Manager met with human diplomat and traded at depot during training

--[[User:Mjo625|Mjo625]] 17:18, 2 March 2009 (EST)

== Chit-chatting ==

Having no meeting halls (well rooms, statue gardens etc) at all, and just having a single 1x1 meeting area REALLY boosted my haulers stats. I might not be the most efficient assigner of work orders, but some of the time most of my haulers were out of work and just spent their time at the meeting area chatting. I had a lot of proficient-or-higher in EVERY social skill within a couple of years. This might be an exploit. Thoughts? [[User:Tardface|Tardface]] 22:53, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

: Yes and no. Chatting dwarfs make friends... and if some dies... Well, you'll have a nice domino effect. Dwarf don't like to lose friends. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 23:12, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

:: So, dwarves will actually be happier overall if you don't let them have any friends? :) [[User:Tardface|Tardface]] 23:15, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

:::In the long-run (which inevitably includes many random deaths) yes.. very much so. Rather few, are the fortresses that can survive a death among legendary haulers, and fewer still are those than can survive several. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:06, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

::::Not really. Random deaths are not exactly inevitable unless you want them to be, and party forts are pretty resilient when it comes to a couple odd deaths: everyone is racking up "talked to a friend lately" thoughts like crazy, so even if a few deaths push them down to miserable they will bounce back up to ecstatic in about a minute. The danger is that if you have more than a couple of deaths at once, the immediate surge in unhappiness may cause spontaneous insanity, which will lead to more deaths... [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 11:09, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::Thoughts don't stack on themselves, so you can only get one "talked to a friend recently" thought at one time. The wisdom of having dwarves too busy to make friends is still the best, hands down. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:53, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Dog

2009-09-19T22:13:32Z

Drunken dwarf: /* War dog */

==War dog==
is it me or can only male dogs become war dogs? i got a bitch that isnt recognized as trainable to war dog status... [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 14:25, 27 November 2007 (EST)

:Not at all. She's probably someone's pet already. Pet's can't be trained. [[User:Mzbundifund|Mzbundifund]] 13:42 27 November 2007 (CST)

Is it just for me, or are war dogs completely useless other than cannon fodder when restrained? When I assign them to dwarves they seem somewhat useful as they swarm the enemy. However, when I chain a line of 4-6 dogs at a choke point, 3+ goblins just plow through them unscathed and it seems like the dogs are trying to run from them rather than attack. [[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]]
:Chained war dogs are very useful to deter theify kobolds and snatchy goblins. These units ignore traps and stealth everywhere, but dogs chained near the fort entrance will eat them immediately.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 16:32, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

Is it possible to un-assign war/hunting dogs? --[[User:Drunken dwarf|Drunken dwarf]]

== Hunting dogs ==

I was wondering what are the advantages of hunting dogs as opposed to war dogs. As far as i can tell the only one is that theyre weaker. --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 17:53, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

:"It sounds like Hunting dogs behave as if 'harass animals' was set to 'yes.'" --[[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]], from the old wiki. Also, see [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000334 this thread], in which Toady says what exactly hunting and war dogs do in the 2D version.
:In short, war dogs do double damage and hunting dogs are useless. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:31, 30 May 2008 (EDT)
::Useless? Doesn't the increased detection range count for anything, like guard duty? ( Ironic that war dogs spot enemies slower... )--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 17:45, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
::: From the words in the current wiki and elsewhere, it sounds like hunting dogs only work when they're assigned to someone. It may be even more strict and require the person to whom they're equipped be "hunting," but I can't confirm this. Would a hunting dog be able to see someone who is hidden from a distance, such as ambushers? --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 18:11, 16 March 2009 (EST)

== Annoying problem with training dogs ==

I have tons of puppies, set to "Unavaliable", yet I never get any non-pet dogs to train. Is there any way to disable pets? This is getting ridiculous now. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:46, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
:unavailable means you can change it to available or ready for slaughter using b for butcher
: only mature dogs can be trained

::Only mature dogs, that are not in a setup cage(it can be in a stockpile though), can be trained. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 19:02, 25 January 2009 (EST)

== The Life of a dog ==

A dog amazingly took down a troll by itself and now is dying from injuries. They don't heal right? Oh yeah it was a war dog.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 06:14, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

(note, I have deleted two unsigned and very unhelpful comments here)
Dogs with a caretaker will heal. Assign the dog to a dwarf (any dwarf will do), and turn on the Animal Care labor on that dwarf. After that, dogs will heal any wound that dwarves can.

I had a puppy that was wounded in a cave-in once: 2 mangled legs, 1 broken paw, moderate (brown) lower spinal chord injury. When it grew to a dog, I trained it as a War Dog and assigned it to my Captain of the Guard. 2 seasons later, the dog was fully healed except for the lower spinal chord injury, which didn't seem to slow it down at all. It went on to kill 4 goblins before I got bored of the game and abandoned the fort. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:21, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

== Puppies ==

Do puppies provide the same items if slaughtered as full grown dogs? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:MrMustard|MrMustard]]
:As of currently, yes. They will provide bones, meat, fat, skin, and chunks just like dogs. (I know you meant quantity. People are speculating that the numbers are 2/3 the full-grown animal except for fat.) --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 17:11, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

:: I dunno about dogs, but kittens provide 2 meat and 2 bone, instead of 3 each for cats. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:53, 8 November 2008 (EST)

== Hunting dogs flow==

I can verify that unassigned hunting dogs follow the trainer just like war dogs. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 19:09, 25 January 2009 (EST)

==Impotent war dogs==
It seems to me that trained war dogs do not make puppies, regardless if they are assigned or not. Can anyone confirm/deny? --[[User:Liqum|Liqum]] 08:30, 8 February 2009 (EST)
: I can deny that. [[image:WarDogPuppies.JPG]] [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:52, 8 February 2009 (EST)
::What if all of your dogs are war dogs? Do male wardogs "mate" at all?
:::I'm fairly certain they can, I train all of my dogs to wardog status as soon as the mature. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 13:25, 16 February 2009 (EST)

Can anyone confirm/deny about a dog or animal limit? It seems I'm not getting any more puppies.... I have about 56 dogs and a total of 101 animals. At first I thought it was because I'd split up my war dogs among warriors, but putting stray war dogs in a single cage did not change the situation. Any info on this? [[User:Chess123mate|Chess123mate]] 19:27, 26 February 2009 (EST)
:Considering that I've spent the last two in-game years culling my animal population down from over 300, I'm pretty sure there's no limit on animals in general. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 02:09, 27 February 2009 (EST)
::The explanation I recall is that there is an animal limit on births and migrations, but these don't apply to pets (who can continue having children indefinitely). I can't actually verify that, however. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:15, 27 February 2009 (EST)
:::I've noticed the same thing that [[User:Chess123mate|Chess123mate]] noted above. I also know that war dogs normally reproduce as shown above. None of my many (>50) dogs have had puppies in the last 3-4 game years. I thought of the animal limit as well (I had near 200) so I [[butcher|took care of it]]. Still no new dogs. Another strange thing is I've caught lots of my own cats in traps. I've never seen that before. I cannot assign the caught cat (like normally possible for caged animals), either. If I do build the cage and release it, it gets caught again (lucky) or squished (rock trap). Any thoughts?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 08:37, 27 February 2009 (EST)
::::I wonder if that's related to something I'm seeing in my current fort. I've been breeding [[Cave crocodile|Cave Crocodiles]] out of a pair that I caught in my underground river, but lately a few of them have started being treated as only "half-tame", so to speak. They don't attack or scare dwarves, they are chained and caged exactly as normal, and they breed perfectly normally. However, I have to go to the {{k|z}} menu to butcher them, they get stuffed in a spare cage when unchained, and they show up as red on the overview map. One even started knocking over statues for no reason. I figured it was something about them being tamed "dangerous" animals, but it might be related to what you mention. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 11:44, 27 February 2009 (EST)
:There is no limit to how many of an animal you can have, but if you get to 50 then they will stop becoming pregnant. Any already pregnant will eventually still give birth, pushing you over 50. I don't know if this limit applies to pets or not, but I know it applies to unassigned non-pet animals because I always embark with 49 dogs. (I fill my moats with war dogs, not water or magma.) [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 08:46, 27 February 2009 (EST)
::That must be it. I have been able to buy them. Any idea on the cats issue?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 11:36, 27 February 2009 (EST)

::This would fit with what I've witnessed then. Although I personally prefer leaving my moats empty with a path back to the outer edge of my defenses...if you still want in after falling in the moat, you get to go the long way. While being filled with bolts =) --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 11:44, 27 February 2009 (EST)

== War Dog Burials, possible? ==

Just curious if any other players have been able to bury war dogs. Never used hunting dogs, so unsure about that. War Dogs are considered "pets" to some degree, but yet they don't seem to be buried in any caskets despite being "open" for pets.--[[User:DracoG|DracoG]] 20:54, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

:In my experience, war dogs aren't actually considered pets for the purposes of burial. I back this up with the fact that my current fort has a couple hundred "dog meat roasts" and yet have never chosen to butcher a dog. So, no grave wasted AND meat/bones/skin. Win-win! -- [[User:PersianLoveBomb|PersianLoveBomb]] 17:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, assigned dogs don't get buried. Unfortunately, dwarves still get upset about their pet dying and being left to rot. I stopped assigning war dogs to military dwarves and any others that leave the fortress walls to collect stuff, since the high rate of attrition was pushing some over into "unhappy". (Dogs don't do too well against zombie elephants. Civilians will easily run away, but their war dogs will charge and die.) --[[User:May Cause Drowsiness|May Cause Drowsiness]] 19:53, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

== War animals ==

Unsure where else to put this, but what are some of the more useful animals to have as war animals (raws edited to allow them to be, of course)? Currently I'm going on whatever the elves bring me in cages (so far, only a jaguar, and I'm thinking of putting a bull from the Dwarven caravan into the military). I was hoping to catch a giant bat, but after it went ninja and mauled my legendary miner, I had a squad of nine champions annihilate it. :(

Anyone else have any good experience in the best animals to use for this? [[User:Pariah|Pariah]] 19:10, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Fire

2009-09-19T17:52:12Z

Drunken dwarf: /* Putting out fire */

==Putting out fire==

Not that it'll make much difference, as putting out fires in time to save a dwarf any injuries is nigh impossible, save for luck's intervention, but how do you put out fire?

I've been experimenting with this a bit, using the Dwarf Companion to help in this. I've managed to catch dwarfs and their clothing on fire by making paths through low-level magma (1 or 2 depth); No problems there. I do seem to have a few bugs in the next bit, however. My three experimental dwarves, (Each with different stages of fire injuries. One with only his upper body, another with both bodies and limbs at minimal, and another with all body parts, including internal organs in brown. After moving them into water, their clothes lose the flaming tag, with the exclamation points (!!) and flashing signature dissipating as well. However, this does nothing to actually remove the fire's effects. Even using Dwarf Companion's heal feature afterwards, the dwarves steadily lost health in the affected body parts until death, even though they were technically healed and no longer burning, or so the appearance of such was made.

I also tried placing them a Z-level above the Water, upon which, their falling caused an interesting thing to happen. The water immediately surrounding them instantly evaporated, and removed their burning tags, but the effect continued, as well. This makes me believe that the clothes may still be listed as burning, regardless of how they appear, and I am thus going to be trying to remove them from the dwarf, and see where that goes.

In the meantime, anyone got any suggestions? [[User:Jwguy|Jwguy]] 12:29, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Pretty sure if it catches on fire, it just burns. In adventure mode, despite being in a 7/7 murky pool, I still burned to death. [[User:Drunken dwarf|Drunken dwarf]]

==Spreads?==

How does fire spread in the new version. I don't have magma on my map so I haven't been able to experiment.

Maybe someone with experience could write up on the risks, ie how it spreads, how long it burns, how dwarfs react and what can be done to fight/prevent it. --[[User:Lucid|Lucid]] 21:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Could someone test to see what levels of water will extinguish fire somehow? Perhaps a fortress at high risk for fire could have emergency floodgates set up to dump precise reservoirs of water at important areas like the living quarters or food/booze stockpiles.

god save us if it is affected by the mud/blood bug too [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 13:07, 8 November 2007 (EST)

no it ain't the blood bug, it's the fire bug. Someone copy and paste it from the old wiki. --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 22:14, 14 November 2007 (EST)

I can confirm that fire spreads to adjucent squares. My fortress catched fire (long story) and wooden barrels and bins on stockpiles burned. When they completety burned out their contents catched fire and many piles of 20 !!leather!!, 20 !!cloth!! and 20 or more !!seeds!! generated '''very''' heavy lags. I didn't pay attention if it spreads diagonally but a burning item on the floor makes all 8 squares around it "warm stone wall" just as magma do to it's 4 directly adjacent squares.--[[User:Another|Another]] 14:26, 26 November 2007 (EST)

Is there a way to intentionally start a fire? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 20:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:Dig into the side of a pool of lava. Remove a construction holding back lava. Open a wooden door holding back lava. Open a floodgate to lava. Some combination of pumps, stairs, ramps, walls, and stockpiles will allow you to choose what gets set on fire and where. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 00:59, 9 March 2008 (EST)

Fire doesn't seem to spread by walking near it though... I forbade a few burning corpses and the dwarves had no problem stepping over it without catching fire.

Possibly fire on items like clothing or corpses will only spread to dwarves touching it.

A more informative page than "fire sucks" might be useful. Maybe a list of fire sources, what objects will and won't burn, how fire spreads and measures you can take to limit the damage or stop it. Maybe telling your dwarves to dump water in your hallways to keep a nice [1/7] coating?

In the 2D version 0.23, fire was like an invisible disease - dwarves didn't know they had it, it was contagious, and it killed them. Thus it was a major source of [[fun]]. In this version - I don't know yet. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 09:05, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

== Fireproof silk? ==

i noticed that cave spider silk clothes dont catch fire. i had a guy incinerated by magma touching him - he managed to move away and his silk clothing was all that was left [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 14:06, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
:If you get silk hot enough for long enough, it'll burn. It can take a while though. Odds are that if he managed to move away, then he wasn't touching the magma long enough to ignite the silk. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 18:40, 26 February 2009 (EST)

== Forest Fire ==

I just started a new game near a volcano, in a forest. In the first winter, a fire imp left the caldera, and the forest burst into flame. Anyone see this before? The entire map went up in smoke... I lost 5 dwarves to it.
--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 22:01, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

:I've seen this multiple times on my current map, haven't lost dwarves, but did have a dwarf caravan run straight into one... As when I tried to pin down what started it and why, all the fire imps were back in the volcano (if they ever left to begin with), but at the exact center of the ring of fire was a pile of groundhog bones - so I think a fire imp wandered out, saw a groundhog, and fried it, causing a massive fire... that or groundhogs spontaneously combust now. Could probably use channels or walls as firebreaks to keep the whole map from burning when it happens, embark with a magma vent that (hopefully) doesn't reach the surface rather than a volcano, or try to close off the top of the volcano. Probably simpler to wall in any surface areas you're using and just tell your dwarves to stay inside when you see a fire though. --[[User:Nethras|Nethras]] 15:02, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

:I had a forest fire the other day - the burn pattern indicated it started in two places approximately simultaneously, in the vicinity of a [[Fire_man|Fire Man]] and a Cougar (though I never saw any bones). The Fire Man had been busy elsewhere with no such effect though, despite killing numerous groundhogs, a couple of Mules, a pet cat, and one of my dwarves.
:The fire didn't manage to enter my encampment, probably due to the foot traffic killing off the vegetation around the entrance, but it did spread across the rest of that z-level. No harm was done to any living creature which encountered it though, as far as I could tell. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 16:50, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

: Similar situation, I used a forest fire to kill a bunch of satyrs by trapping single satyrs in cage traps. I couldn't kill them otherwise because they aren't hostile and aren't animals, so military and hunters wouldn't touch them, but they do set off cage traps and once one is trapped, the other satyrs stayed close. So I scattered some traps near the caldera and waited; eventually a fire imp popped out, started a fire, and about fifteen satyrs all got roasted by the fire. [[User:Calenth|Calenth]]

: I've seen the aftermath of similar (burnt forest, caldera, fire imps, missing wildlife) and can verify forest fires are currently (40d) restricted to the same Z-level. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 06:16, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

== Stockpile exploit ==

"Fires won't cross an empty stockpile, providing an even fast way to create firebreaks."...not what happened at my own fortress. Maybe it doesn't apply if there's grass underneath? Needs more testing... – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]]
: I'll admit I'm not talking from my own experience. I got it off of the bug reports forum. [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25600.0] – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]]
:I just checked, and fire will go right through as stockpile as if it wasn't there. Thus, I took that part out of the article. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 18:40, 26 February 2009 (EST)

==Spontaneous Combustion?==
A bunch of goblin clothes and bodies in my entrance hall just went up in flames mysteriously. There are no fire imps left on the map, the Magma Man is far away in the magma vent near the bottom (10 z-levels and 3 screens away - the site isn't even near the magma pipe). There's just a bunch of smoke and burning goblin clothes. The heck? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:12, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:Maybe it was in the bug forum, but I remember hearing of a similar known bug. {racks brain} Something to do with materials left in cages remaining tied to their owner. So if you strip the clothing off a goblin while he's in a cage, then drop the cage into lava, his clothes catch on fire. Or maybe it was the other way around. Assuming, of course, this is an example of this bug. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:02, 12 December 2008 (EST)
::I did drop a goblin cage into lava... I don't remember actually stripping gear off of him, but he may have dropped something before getting caged... Must find a way to use this offensively... probably involving a goblin cage stockpile near lava, a goblin clothes stockpile near the entrance, and a booze stockpile immediately adjacent... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:17, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:What actually happens is thus: When the cage is destroyed by magma, the items inside mysteriously teleport to the precise location the caged goblin was trapped in, on fire. This bug is 100% repeatable and afaik not fixed yet. Hmmm! Replace the trap with a barrel after capture, and you might have a fairly reliable booze bomb. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 17:56, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:: If you figure it out, be sure to post the method in [[Talk:Alcohol#Booze Bombs]]. If you're going to be experimenting, why don't you try testing out the existing theoretical methods?
::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 14:44, 17 December 2008 (EST)
:::So, I haven't tried it with booze bombs yet, but I have used it for trap hall cleaning (goblins drop so much crap). Its really too bad silk doesn't burn.
:::There seems to be some preconditions to the item teleportation actually working - I think its a cage material thing but it could be a goblin equipment thing. I have had a 0% success rate with wooden cage traps and nickel cage traps. Metal cage traps which will melt in magma seem to trigger the bug upon destruction of the cage.
:::Now, my sample sizes aren't huge, so it could be that those trap types have only caught wrestlers. Since leather items burn up instantly in magma, and silk doesn't seem to have temperature, the goblin will need some metal items to hold the heat when teleported back to the cage trap square. That said, I haven't seen any items teleported if there wasn't also metal (all teleported piles have included metal), so maybe its a metal equipment specific bug.
:::Anyway, this definitely produces fire in the area (I have been using it to burn up leather items dropped by goblins), which means it should ignite barrrels and cause explosions - specific testing is obviously required.
:::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 23:14, 26 February 2009 (EST)

== Image ==

I added an image to the page to show what fire looks like. I don't see many other images like this on the wiki though, so I'm curious as to if this is a good thing or if I should remove it? --[[User:Lulzmango|Lulzmango]] 00:07, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

:It's nice, maybe an alttext and caption text would add to it a good bit too [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:08, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

:: That image is made of 100% win! [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 00:56, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

:: Thanks --[[User:Lulzmango|Lulzmango]] 02:12, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
: Don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like..that fire? --[[User:Dragon239|Dragon239]] 02:31, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Cat

2009-09-19T17:30:00Z

Drunken dwarf: /* Closed door method of impounding cats */

== Bones, etc. count ==

Wile butchering cats I always got stacks of 3 bones... Anyone, check this, please. --[[User:Dorten]]

:Cats are size 3 in the raws so 3 stacks of bones would make sense to me. Maybe they are taking the numbers from kittens, likewise you probably get 3 meat. Can someone confirm this, I don't trust my reading of the raws. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 04:00, 25 January 2008 (EST)

::Bone#=Size --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:58, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

== Disable Cats? ==

I'm getting annoyed with all these cats, is there a way to delete them? Maybe removing their creature details? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:38, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

Yep, that's the way. Just look for the file raw/objects/creature_domestic.txt and delete the 'cat' creature. Although personally I wouldn't recommend that, since if you just delete the [VERMINHUNTER] the cats act like normal animals, they don't go around slaughtering rats and roaches and they dont 'adopt' owners.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 12:28, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Is there anyway to remove cats adoption behaviour whilst leaving their rat catching intact?----
:None known. The two are tied together in the deeper game code. (If you give, say, dogs the [vermin catcher] tag, they begin to adopt owners same as cats.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:44, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

== Too injured? ==

Right after the last siege, I've had a sudden surge of odd announcements along the lines of "Tame Cat Algazud Knogger cancels Store Item in Stockpile: Too Injured". Several cats exhibit this behavior, none of them actually wounded in any way I can tell. Anyone else seen this? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 17:51, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
:I'm guessing that the vermin the cat just killed and wants to move to the stockpile is what's tripping the injured message. I'm seeing it I think every time a cat kills a vermin. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 18:27, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
::Ah, well it's still happening. I took a look through the bug list and someone has listed it under "Announcement spamming". No response yet from The Toady One as best I could tell. It's annoying, but I already have to deal with a lot of spurious cancellation messages, so it's liveable. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:00, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
:::See [[Cat cancels Store Item in Stockpile: Too injured]]. The cat needs something to grasp with, apparently; either you make a type of grasping mouth and call it CAT_MOUTH, and assign it to CAT, or just change the CAT raws from [BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH] to [BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH:UPPERBODY_PINCERS]. See what he did there? Version .40d. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 03:24, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
::::Indeed... whoever wrote that FAQ entry must have been a very wise and knowledgable person. Truly a paragon among men. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 13:00, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::It is only right that we should link there from here and let his teachings be known more widely. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:49, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
::::::Added to the page. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:34, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

== Closed door method of impounding cats ==

Recently, a method was posted to isolate cats by means of tightly-closed doors, luring the owner there by drafting, and then letting him leave while the cat is stymied. I haven't had means to test this exact method, but I do know that cats and other pets will eventually get out of the tightly closed doors if there's ever another Dwarf that will walk through. My experience is that cats especially will just sit by the door with a question mark, waiting for someone to open it so they can slip out (just like real cats!). Similarly, I've seen accounts of people on the board who've noticed peculiarly sneaky muskoxen using the same tactic to get into fortresses. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 15:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:In addition, wouldn't this method just cause the pathfinding algorithm to continually execute for the cat, slowing down the FPS anyway? Also this could be moved to the 'catsplosion' page, rather than being here... --[[User:Khimaera UK|JK]] 20:45, 8 January 2009 (EST)

::All animals will pile up at tightly closed doors because they path like dwarves, so they don't understand the door won't open for them. This should kill your FPS because they are queuing the pathfinding algorithm repeatedly. Now, if you really want to control the cat problem with tightly closed doors, build a Upright Spike trap right next to the door with a lever on the other side. When the cats pile up, have someone go pull the lever. (Works best with 2 doors airlock fashion so you can forbid the other door when you notice a cat pileup to stop dwarves from pathing through the room and letting the cats out before their death). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 21:47, 8 January 2009 (EST)

:::Make the floor of the cat impound a retracting bridge. When pulled, cats fall 1 z-level into a completely sealed walled-in room. Now there is no door to escape, and cats cease pathfinding in favor of standing there pitiably until the end of time. Deconstruct a wall to let them out. --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 08:27, 10 January 2009 (EST)

::::I've also noticed that cat's aren't very smart. I once saw 3 trying to get into a human house because there was a lizard inside. They wouldn't go find another victim, they seemed focused on that one lizard. this could potentially have some use for cat death traps.--[[User:Drunken dwarf|Drunken dwarf]]

== Virgin birth? ==

My current fortress is an obsidian wasteland, complete with haunted area that is spawning undead animals regularly. I only brought 1 cat with me. I haven't kept an eagle's eye on the creatures in the area, but my single female cat just gave birth to kittens. No immigrants have arrived, but I've had the first two caravans come through. They don't bring (uncaged) cats with them, do they?

Well, the gestation period for cats in RL is about two months and I'm not sure just what the gestation period is in DF. It's entirely possible that traders will have a stray cat tagging along, so if its the opposite gender... you know. I did think that she was pregnant from the start (as in mated before the game 'started'), but given that a year and a half went by...--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 18:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

== Chains ==

Can't you just chain them instead?--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 01:25, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
:I think you can't chained named pets. Just strays? - Cayzle
::You "think"? For trivial questions, trivial experiments are called for - and let's be honest, this is hardly a complex or hard-to-answer question. Just find out instead of wondering or guessing. If you have an empty [[restraint]] (chain or rope), [[pet]]s do not appear on the list of possible animals to assign to it, only "stray" animals - ''with or without names!''. (An animal that is "named" is not the same as "being a pet".) Note also that if a ''stray'' cat is chained, and then later adopts someone after that, the "owner" (the dwarf, not the cat) will get bad thoughts until the animal is released. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:19, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

== paused adoption ==

i'm one of the types to spend about 2 hours just designing keeping the game paused and draw digging plots when 4 games out of 5 i get a "(so in so) cat has adopted (named dwarf)". always happens if a dwarf has a liking to cats and never otherwise. not a bug report or anything just a finding as nothing is "wrong". [[User:Soul4hdwn|Soul4hdwn]] 00:03, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
:Yeah, had this happen too. It appears a few of the timers (liaison conversations, adoption, etc.) work off of a real time counter, and not seasons. Incredibly aggravating in this case.--Gotthard 04:53, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Animal trap

2009-09-19T17:10:28Z

Drunken dwarf:

So dwarves can make and use animal traps WITHOUT the hunting skill? Just trapping? Does this ensure that my carpenter won't go try and wrestle elephants? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 15:28, 9 November 2007 (EST)
:Yup. Just activate Trapping and leave Hunting alone. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:06, 10 November 2007 (EST)
==Effectiveness==
Does this work? Does it work agains the [[Hoary marmot]] that wake everyone up and stop them working?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:11, 5 February 2008 (EST)
:Hoary Marmots aren't vermin! You'll have to build real cages to trap them.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 16:26, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Ridding myself of vermin in traps ==

I have successfully trapped three lizards, and they are all sitting in my animal storage room. I worry that my Mayor(who has a deathly fear of lizards) will come in and see them. I'd like to make them into food, but I tamed one and then it couldn't be designated for slaughter. What should I do? Melt the traps? [[User:Shoez|Shoez]] 23:00, 7 April 2008 (EDT)
:You can't butcher vermin, much less get material from them. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 00:15, 8 April 2008 (EDT)

:Just wait some time. Sometimes, dwarves will come in and eat them. [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 05:21, 8 April 2008 (EDT)

== Old version ==

If you compare this article with the article of the [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Animal_trap old wiki] you see how it can be improved. [[User:Death Dragon|Death Dragon]] 07:13, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

== Differences from old version ==

Just did a little bit of research on this in my current game. Seems the trapper doesn't wander about as much as he used to. He heads straight to where your food is (i.e. he ignores empty food stockpiles) and will only move away from there if he spots a vermin. He wanders back and forth between stockpiles if he can't find any vermin in the first one he goes to. I even tried building the kennels outside a long distance away from my fort, designating a new food stockpile next to it, and blocked off the path to where my actual food was with bridges. He picked up the animal trap and then just spammed "could not find path" errors. Makes it difficult to catch outdoor vermin unless you store all your food outdoors. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 17:42, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

== Bait Robbing ==

What's robbing them? Vermin, Small animals, large animals, something more fun?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 01:24, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

==Artifact Traps==
My Secretive dwarf made a Smoky Quartz Animal Trap, with some random pictures of dwarves etc. Will this help attract vermin? --[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 02:57, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:Unlikely, although if the quality of an animal trap has an influence on its ability to catch things (I don't know if it does), then it will probably work as well as a Masterpiece trap.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:33, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:Perhaps trap quality reduces the frequency with which the bait gets robbed... just speculating here.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:37, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:What labor did he get his strange mood in? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 19:50, 18 November 2008 (EST)

::Very nice question! Normally animal traps are trapper-only constructions, which suggests trapper is moodable. I'll post the question on Stinhad's page in case (he) misses the post here.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:13, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:::Just got one myself, he took a carpenter's workshop but was possesed, so I'm not sure wether it was for trapping or carpenter. It does seem to catch things extremely quickly, I set it, went to look at the wiki to see if different baits made a diffrence, and it had captured a toad by the time I got back ~20 seconds.--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 13:03, 6 December 2008 (EST)

::::Strangely enough, dwarves who build traps in moods don't use the trapper skill, they use a skill suitable to the material the trap is built with. I had a dwarf take possession of a craftsdwarf shop and make a turtle shell animal trap in a mood, and he gained bonecarver skill. I suppose this is similar to how dwarves can build theoretically possible but not normally orderable items while in moods, like rock or metal beds. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:43, 8 December 2008 (EST)

==Firehazards==

Is it possible for creatures (eg. fire imps, dragons, and other fun things) to breath fire while in a cage upon your hapless dwarves?--[[User:Drunken dwarf|Drunken dwarf]]

40d:Soaper

2009-09-19T06:36:07Z

Drunken dwarf:

{{Skill
| color = rgb(128,128,0)
| skill = Soaper
| speciality = Soaper
| profession = [[Farmer]]
| job name = Soap Maker
| tasks =
* Make [[soap]]

| workshop = [[Alchemist's laboratory]]
}}

A '''soaper''' is a [[dwarf]] who creates [[soap]] from [[tallow]] and [[lye]] at the [[Alchemist's laboratory]]. This is one of the least useful roles in the [[fortress]] because any dwarf can be assigned the task and yield the same result since soap has no quality modifier; the only difference is faster production. Additionally, in fortresses without [[sand]] (which is required to produce the 3 clear glass vials needed for the laboratory), the soap making profession is entirely worthless. Thus, soapers are typically excellent candidates to be drafted into the [[military]] or full-time [[hauling]] duty, or otherwise re-trained in another [[profession]].

At present soap has no different effect than any other [[block]], but given that the base value of soap is 25☼ multiplied by the [MODVALUE:] of the creature whose fat it is made from, soap can be very valuable to build with. It is also the best way to get [[value]] out of [[megabeast]] [[fat]] (plus,admit it, a block of Hydra or Dragon soap is just cool - and ''very'' valuable!).

See [[Military]] -[[User:Drunken dwarf|Drunken dwarf]]

:''"Those who wash earth from their face, I shall wash from my face."'' Sumu, Goddess of Earth, Tome of the Elders, Book III

{{Skills}}
[[Category:Jobs]]

40d:Soaper

2009-09-19T06:35:53Z

Drunken dwarf:

{{Skill
| color = rgb(128,128,0)
| skill = Soaper
| speciality = Soaper
| profession = [[Farmer]]
| job name = Soap Maker
| tasks =
* Make [[soap]]

| workshop = [[Alchemist's laboratory]]
}}

A '''soaper''' is a [[dwarf]] who creates [[soap]] from [[tallow]] and [[lye]] at the [[Alchemist's laboratory]]. This is one of the least useful roles in the [[fortress]] because any dwarf can be assigned the task and yield the same result since soap has no quality modifier; the only difference is faster production. Additionally, in fortresses without [[sand]] (which is required to produce the 3 clear glass vials needed for the laboratory), the soap making profession is entirely worthless. Thus, soapers are typically excellent candidates to be drafted into the [[military]] or full-time [[hauling]] duty, or otherwise re-trained in another [[profession]].

At present soap has no different effect than any other [[block]], but given that the base value of soap is 25☼ multiplied by the [MODVALUE:] of the creature whose fat it is made from, soap can be very valuable to build with. It is also the best way to get [[value]] out of [[megabeast]] [[fat]] (plus,admit it, a block of Hydra or Dragon soap is just cool - and ''very'' valuable!).

See [[Military]] [[User:Drunken dwarf|Drunken dwarf]]

:''"Those who wash earth from their face, I shall wash from my face."'' Sumu, Goddess of Earth, Tome of the Elders, Book III

{{Skills}}
[[Category:Jobs]]

40d Talk:Fire

2009-09-19T06:32:44Z

Drunken dwarf: /* Putting out fire */

==Putting out fire==

Not that it'll make much difference, as putting out fires in time to save a dwarf any injuries is nigh impossible, save for luck's intervention, but how do you put out fire?

I've been experimenting with this a bit, using the Dwarf Companion to help in this. I've managed to catch dwarfs and their clothing on fire by making paths through low-level magma (1 or 2 depth); No problems there. I do seem to have a few bugs in the next bit, however. My three experimental dwarves, (Each with different stages of fire injuries. One with only his upper body, another with both bodies and limbs at minimal, and another with all body parts, including internal organs in brown. After moving them into water, their clothes lose the flaming tag, with the exclamation points (!!) and flashing signature dissipating as well. However, this does nothing to actually remove the fire's effects. Even using Dwarf Companion's heal feature afterwards, the dwarves steadily lost health in the affected body parts until death, even though they were technically healed and no longer burning, or so the appearance of such was made.

I also tried placing them a Z-level above the Water, upon which, their falling caused an interesting thing to happen. The water immediately surrounding them instantly evaporated, and removed their burning tags, but the effect continued, as well. This makes me believe that the clothes may still be listed as burning, regardless of how they appear, and I am thus going to be trying to remove them from the dwarf, and see where that goes.

In the meantime, anyone got any suggestions? [[User:Jwguy|Jwguy]] 12:29, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Pretty sure if it catches on fire, it just burns. In adventure mode, despite being in a 7/7 murky pool, I still burned to death [[User:Drunken dwarf|Drunken dwarf]]

==Spreads?==

How does fire spread in the new version. I don't have magma on my map so I haven't been able to experiment.

Maybe someone with experience could write up on the risks, ie how it spreads, how long it burns, how dwarfs react and what can be done to fight/prevent it. --[[User:Lucid|Lucid]] 21:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Could someone test to see what levels of water will extinguish fire somehow? Perhaps a fortress at high risk for fire could have emergency floodgates set up to dump precise reservoirs of water at important areas like the living quarters or food/booze stockpiles.

god save us if it is affected by the mud/blood bug too [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 13:07, 8 November 2007 (EST)

no it ain't the blood bug, it's the fire bug. Someone copy and paste it from the old wiki. --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 22:14, 14 November 2007 (EST)

I can confirm that fire spreads to adjucent squares. My fortress catched fire (long story) and wooden barrels and bins on stockpiles burned. When they completety burned out their contents catched fire and many piles of 20 !!leather!!, 20 !!cloth!! and 20 or more !!seeds!! generated '''very''' heavy lags. I didn't pay attention if it spreads diagonally but a burning item on the floor makes all 8 squares around it "warm stone wall" just as magma do to it's 4 directly adjacent squares.--[[User:Another|Another]] 14:26, 26 November 2007 (EST)

Is there a way to intentionally start a fire? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 20:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:Dig into the side of a pool of lava. Remove a construction holding back lava. Open a wooden door holding back lava. Open a floodgate to lava. Some combination of pumps, stairs, ramps, walls, and stockpiles will allow you to choose what gets set on fire and where. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 00:59, 9 March 2008 (EST)

Fire doesn't seem to spread by walking near it though... I forbade a few burning corpses and the dwarves had no problem stepping over it without catching fire.

Possibly fire on items like clothing or corpses will only spread to dwarves touching it.

A more informative page than "fire sucks" might be useful. Maybe a list of fire sources, what objects will and won't burn, how fire spreads and measures you can take to limit the damage or stop it. Maybe telling your dwarves to dump water in your hallways to keep a nice [1/7] coating?

In the 2D version 0.23, fire was like an invisible disease - dwarves didn't know they had it, it was contagious, and it killed them. Thus it was a major source of [[fun]]. In this version - I don't know yet. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 09:05, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

== Fireproof silk? ==

i noticed that cave spider silk clothes dont catch fire. i had a guy incinerated by magma touching him - he managed to move away and his silk clothing was all that was left [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 14:06, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
:If you get silk hot enough for long enough, it'll burn. It can take a while though. Odds are that if he managed to move away, then he wasn't touching the magma long enough to ignite the silk. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 18:40, 26 February 2009 (EST)

== Forest Fire ==

I just started a new game near a volcano, in a forest. In the first winter, a fire imp left the caldera, and the forest burst into flame. Anyone see this before? The entire map went up in smoke... I lost 5 dwarves to it.
--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 22:01, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

:I've seen this multiple times on my current map, haven't lost dwarves, but did have a dwarf caravan run straight into one... As when I tried to pin down what started it and why, all the fire imps were back in the volcano (if they ever left to begin with), but at the exact center of the ring of fire was a pile of groundhog bones - so I think a fire imp wandered out, saw a groundhog, and fried it, causing a massive fire... that or groundhogs spontaneously combust now. Could probably use channels or walls as firebreaks to keep the whole map from burning when it happens, embark with a magma vent that (hopefully) doesn't reach the surface rather than a volcano, or try to close off the top of the volcano. Probably simpler to wall in any surface areas you're using and just tell your dwarves to stay inside when you see a fire though. --[[User:Nethras|Nethras]] 15:02, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

:I had a forest fire the other day - the burn pattern indicated it started in two places approximately simultaneously, in the vicinity of a [[Fire_man|Fire Man]] and a Cougar (though I never saw any bones). The Fire Man had been busy elsewhere with no such effect though, despite killing numerous groundhogs, a couple of Mules, a pet cat, and one of my dwarves.
:The fire didn't manage to enter my encampment, probably due to the foot traffic killing off the vegetation around the entrance, but it did spread across the rest of that z-level. No harm was done to any living creature which encountered it though, as far as I could tell. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 16:50, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

: Similar situation, I used a forest fire to kill a bunch of satyrs by trapping single satyrs in cage traps. I couldn't kill them otherwise because they aren't hostile and aren't animals, so military and hunters wouldn't touch them, but they do set off cage traps and once one is trapped, the other satyrs stayed close. So I scattered some traps near the caldera and waited; eventually a fire imp popped out, started a fire, and about fifteen satyrs all got roasted by the fire. [[User:Calenth|Calenth]]

: I've seen the aftermath of similar (burnt forest, caldera, fire imps, missing wildlife) and can verify forest fires are currently (40d) restricted to the same Z-level. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 06:16, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

== Stockpile exploit ==

"Fires won't cross an empty stockpile, providing an even fast way to create firebreaks."...not what happened at my own fortress. Maybe it doesn't apply if there's grass underneath? Needs more testing... – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]]
: I'll admit I'm not talking from my own experience. I got it off of the bug reports forum. [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25600.0] – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]]
:I just checked, and fire will go right through as stockpile as if it wasn't there. Thus, I took that part out of the article. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 18:40, 26 February 2009 (EST)

==Spontaneous Combustion?==
A bunch of goblin clothes and bodies in my entrance hall just went up in flames mysteriously. There are no fire imps left on the map, the Magma Man is far away in the magma vent near the bottom (10 z-levels and 3 screens away - the site isn't even near the magma pipe). There's just a bunch of smoke and burning goblin clothes. The heck? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:12, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:Maybe it was in the bug forum, but I remember hearing of a similar known bug. {racks brain} Something to do with materials left in cages remaining tied to their owner. So if you strip the clothing off a goblin while he's in a cage, then drop the cage into lava, his clothes catch on fire. Or maybe it was the other way around. Assuming, of course, this is an example of this bug. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:02, 12 December 2008 (EST)
::I did drop a goblin cage into lava... I don't remember actually stripping gear off of him, but he may have dropped something before getting caged... Must find a way to use this offensively... probably involving a goblin cage stockpile near lava, a goblin clothes stockpile near the entrance, and a booze stockpile immediately adjacent... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:17, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:What actually happens is thus: When the cage is destroyed by magma, the items inside mysteriously teleport to the precise location the caged goblin was trapped in, on fire. This bug is 100% repeatable and afaik not fixed yet. Hmmm! Replace the trap with a barrel after capture, and you might have a fairly reliable booze bomb. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 17:56, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:: If you figure it out, be sure to post the method in [[Talk:Alcohol#Booze Bombs]]. If you're going to be experimenting, why don't you try testing out the existing theoretical methods?
::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 14:44, 17 December 2008 (EST)
:::So, I haven't tried it with booze bombs yet, but I have used it for trap hall cleaning (goblins drop so much crap). Its really too bad silk doesn't burn.
:::There seems to be some preconditions to the item teleportation actually working - I think its a cage material thing but it could be a goblin equipment thing. I have had a 0% success rate with wooden cage traps and nickel cage traps. Metal cage traps which will melt in magma seem to trigger the bug upon destruction of the cage.
:::Now, my sample sizes aren't huge, so it could be that those trap types have only caught wrestlers. Since leather items burn up instantly in magma, and silk doesn't seem to have temperature, the goblin will need some metal items to hold the heat when teleported back to the cage trap square. That said, I haven't seen any items teleported if there wasn't also metal (all teleported piles have included metal), so maybe its a metal equipment specific bug.
:::Anyway, this definitely produces fire in the area (I have been using it to burn up leather items dropped by goblins), which means it should ignite barrrels and cause explosions - specific testing is obviously required.
:::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 23:14, 26 February 2009 (EST)

== Image ==

I added an image to the page to show what fire looks like. I don't see many other images like this on the wiki though, so I'm curious as to if this is a good thing or if I should remove it? --[[User:Lulzmango|Lulzmango]] 00:07, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

:It's nice, maybe an alttext and caption text would add to it a good bit too [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:08, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

:: That image is made of 100% win! [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 00:56, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

:: Thanks --[[User:Lulzmango|Lulzmango]] 02:12, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
: Don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like..that fire? --[[User:Dragon239|Dragon239]] 02:31, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

User:Drunken dwarf

2009-09-19T06:16:33Z

Drunken dwarf:

==Game add-ons==
Got a request for a beast/monster/animal/anything you want me to incorporate into the game? send me an e-mail at The.Drunken.Dwarf@gmail.com and I'll see what i can do (got a lot of spare time).Check below page to see if i'm working on something you requested right now.

==Current project(s)==

===Modernization===
Currently working on bringing DF into the present (eg. changing crossbows into rifles, bows into pistols,etc.)
Not deep enough into it to have an idea of when it'll be done.

40d Talk:Swimmer

2009-09-19T06:06:44Z

Drunken dwarf: /* A couple observations */

Can you or can a dwarf not swim to the surface the answer says both. Maybe it means in adventurer mode? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Jikor|Jikor]]
: It was thought to be impossible, but then someone recorded a movie of a dwarf doing it, so...--[[User:SL|SL]] 20:38, 3 January 2008 (EST)

Are we sure that dwarves drown at the same rate with heavy or light equipment if they have swimming skill? Or is it just ones that have no skill?--[[User:SL|SL]] 20:38, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:I did the test for heavy vs. light, and I did not consider swimming ability. I just drowned two peasants, one in armour and one not. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 05:49, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
::Just attempted to test it, but was unsuccesful as my two proficient swimmers climbed out of the pond I was trying to drown them in. So I added that to the article. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 06:34, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

What are the exact requirements to build a drowning trap. I built a large outlook lake I could floor/empty. After luring some goblins into the area and filling it all to 7/7 the only goblin to drown was the one which stood directly under the area where the water entered from above. It seems that they will only drown if they are in 7/7 water and there is at least 1/7 water above them. Any confirmation/additions welcomed. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 16:49, 2 March 2008 (EST)
:If there is a roof above them they drown in 7/7 otherwise they can tread water, and keep their heads up to breath. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 18:28, 2 March 2008 (EST)
::I've been dropping some of my caged goblins into a pit designed at the edge of a river, and they have no roof above them but are drowning quite nicely. [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 02:17, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
:::Perhaps that's because the goblins are in cages? Maybe an uncaged goblin would be able to swim... on a related note, would it be advisable to place a chain in a swimming pool, to teach prisoners swimming skills? [[User:SwallowedSpear|SwallowedSpear]] 13:53, 27 January 2009 (EST)

I've been working on a water-pulse defensive mechanism, using flowing water to push things around, mostly to see if I can. Been getting some help on the DF forums. I'm going to make a few preliminary tests using dwarves as test subjects. In theory this should be a *safe* way to train swimming, because I don't know if continuous pulses of water will do enough drowning damage to kill something. ---[[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 02:18, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

== Learn to swim ==

If someone can improve the design, make a clearer image, or write better instructions, please do so. I don't know if what I wrote makes complete sense (it does to me, but then I already *know* what I mean), but it's a start at least. -[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 14:58, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

:How much swimming skill do they tend to gain from the setup?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:24, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

::I've not had much time to play with it since getting it working, but I think it'll be a fairly slow process. It could be sped up by widening the inlet channel, enlarging the reservoir and having less grates for drainage, but it also increases the risk of drowning. -[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 06:11, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

== Dwarf Washing ==

Is there any actual way to wash blood splatters off a dwarf, in either adventure or fortress mode? Or is Grov's system just for fun? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:52, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
:Captain Mayday might know. I remember reading in Nist Akath that that Captain Ironblod attempted to bathe, but the blood and vomit all over him wouldn't come off. I'm pretty sure this means it doesn't work. Might ask him what version he was using. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 23:33, 24 January 2009 (EST)

== Surface definition ==

"Note that air-breathers will be unable to breathe two levels beneath the surface." What exactly is the surface? The empty space above the water or the topmost level of water? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Xonara|Xonara]]
: I think it actually means that air-breathers can't breathe in water deeper than 5/7, although I'll admit I could be wrong. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:21, 3 November 2008 (EST)

::Maybe it means that you can't breathe in the bottom layer of a 2-layer reservoir? But that's kinda obvious, since it's always 7/7.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:16, 3 November 2008 (EST)

== The Underwater Nom ==

Placing a military dwarf previously ordered to carry two rations and a waterskin in a flooding chamber to teach him to swim, I discovered that dwarves are quite content to eat and drink while swimming, causing the floor of the chamber to be littered with turtle bones and shells from his pack. Is this the usual behavior, or was my dwarf just confused? --[[User:LucienSadi|LucienSadi]] 20:40, 11 December 2008 (EST)
:I seriously doubt Toady could have foreseen that kind of situation, and probably ignored it. Besides, as long as he's not drowning, I don't see any reason he shouldn't eat. I certainly wouldn't let myself starve just because I was in chest deep water :P --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 00:47, 25 January 2009 (EST)

== A couple observations ==

Swimmers won't path through water even if they're a legendary swimmer. Though, perhaps they should, currently water completely restricts work in the area. Also, dwarves can swim between z-levels. Non-novice swimmers, at least. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 00:40, 25 January 2009 (EST)

Also, on an oddly humorous side note; it appears that carp and longnose gar can drown. I've only seen it in adventure mode, but it can still happen.--[[USER:Drunken dwarf|Drunken dwarf]]

== Saving drowning dwarves ==

how do you do it? what, exactly, do you need to do? i've pretty-much always written 'em off if they've fallen into a river/lake/pond/etc, but i read (in the article) that dwarves would swim to a ramp or such. i've never seen it before, so i didnt think it was possible (hence, the 'swimmer' skill on the embark page always confused me). i've never even seen a dwarf move if they're in water :/ so, what do i need to do to save them? --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 21:17, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

:Dwarves do not fall into rivers/lakes/ponds/etc except when they are pushed/are pulled/have the floor drop out from under them. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 01:25, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

::or 'dodge' into them, or run in after a unicorn they were hunting, yes. i seem to always end up on the map with longnose gar, sturgeon, pike and carp, so alot of my dwarves get pulled in (dispite the restricted traffic areas, and such). and in the article it says they'll swim to the side and go up a ramp or something. quote: "If an untrained or dabbling swimmer jumps into water, four things happen; they start drowning, they are stunned from the impact, they are forced into a prone position, and their movement speed is greatly reduced. The only way to get out of water is to use a ramp or stairway, and if neither are accessible, they're done for.", so.. what do i need to do to give them a chance to get out? where do i put the ramp? on the ground floor, above the water? do i need to dig down into the side of the river, with an ramp? do i need two sets of up/down stairs from the bottom of the river? do i need to construct a wall, door, and a chamber underwater to get them out? what? --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]]

:::You build the ramp on the same z-level as the river, i.e. "in" the river. If you look at the picture on the [[Ramp]] page, if the river was flowing over the grey ramp, then the grey ramp would allow them to escape. You can put them pretty much anywhere that will let your dwarves get out of the river. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 15:50, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

::::yeah, that's what i suspected. i was terribly worried it'd do something strange, though. might be worth adding that to the article, and add that the ramp turns blue when submerged (or, my 'sandy loam downward slope' has)

== Recovering underwater items ==
Can swimmers recover underwater items?

:Dwarves won't try to recover underwater items no matter how good they are at swimming. If they try to retrieve something from shallow water, the swimmer skill will keep them from drowning should the water get deeper or they fall into deeper water or something. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 15:28, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Swimmer

2009-09-19T06:05:53Z

Drunken dwarf: /* A couple observations */

Can you or can a dwarf not swim to the surface the answer says both. Maybe it means in adventurer mode? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Jikor|Jikor]]
: It was thought to be impossible, but then someone recorded a movie of a dwarf doing it, so...--[[User:SL|SL]] 20:38, 3 January 2008 (EST)

Are we sure that dwarves drown at the same rate with heavy or light equipment if they have swimming skill? Or is it just ones that have no skill?--[[User:SL|SL]] 20:38, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:I did the test for heavy vs. light, and I did not consider swimming ability. I just drowned two peasants, one in armour and one not. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 05:49, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
::Just attempted to test it, but was unsuccesful as my two proficient swimmers climbed out of the pond I was trying to drown them in. So I added that to the article. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 06:34, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

What are the exact requirements to build a drowning trap. I built a large outlook lake I could floor/empty. After luring some goblins into the area and filling it all to 7/7 the only goblin to drown was the one which stood directly under the area where the water entered from above. It seems that they will only drown if they are in 7/7 water and there is at least 1/7 water above them. Any confirmation/additions welcomed. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 16:49, 2 March 2008 (EST)
:If there is a roof above them they drown in 7/7 otherwise they can tread water, and keep their heads up to breath. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 18:28, 2 March 2008 (EST)
::I've been dropping some of my caged goblins into a pit designed at the edge of a river, and they have no roof above them but are drowning quite nicely. [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 02:17, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
:::Perhaps that's because the goblins are in cages? Maybe an uncaged goblin would be able to swim... on a related note, would it be advisable to place a chain in a swimming pool, to teach prisoners swimming skills? [[User:SwallowedSpear|SwallowedSpear]] 13:53, 27 January 2009 (EST)

I've been working on a water-pulse defensive mechanism, using flowing water to push things around, mostly to see if I can. Been getting some help on the DF forums. I'm going to make a few preliminary tests using dwarves as test subjects. In theory this should be a *safe* way to train swimming, because I don't know if continuous pulses of water will do enough drowning damage to kill something. ---[[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 02:18, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

== Learn to swim ==

If someone can improve the design, make a clearer image, or write better instructions, please do so. I don't know if what I wrote makes complete sense (it does to me, but then I already *know* what I mean), but it's a start at least. -[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 14:58, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

:How much swimming skill do they tend to gain from the setup?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:24, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

::I've not had much time to play with it since getting it working, but I think it'll be a fairly slow process. It could be sped up by widening the inlet channel, enlarging the reservoir and having less grates for drainage, but it also increases the risk of drowning. -[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 06:11, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

== Dwarf Washing ==

Is there any actual way to wash blood splatters off a dwarf, in either adventure or fortress mode? Or is Grov's system just for fun? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:52, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
:Captain Mayday might know. I remember reading in Nist Akath that that Captain Ironblod attempted to bathe, but the blood and vomit all over him wouldn't come off. I'm pretty sure this means it doesn't work. Might ask him what version he was using. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 23:33, 24 January 2009 (EST)

== Surface definition ==

"Note that air-breathers will be unable to breathe two levels beneath the surface." What exactly is the surface? The empty space above the water or the topmost level of water? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Xonara|Xonara]]
: I think it actually means that air-breathers can't breathe in water deeper than 5/7, although I'll admit I could be wrong. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:21, 3 November 2008 (EST)

::Maybe it means that you can't breathe in the bottom layer of a 2-layer reservoir? But that's kinda obvious, since it's always 7/7.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:16, 3 November 2008 (EST)

== The Underwater Nom ==

Placing a military dwarf previously ordered to carry two rations and a waterskin in a flooding chamber to teach him to swim, I discovered that dwarves are quite content to eat and drink while swimming, causing the floor of the chamber to be littered with turtle bones and shells from his pack. Is this the usual behavior, or was my dwarf just confused? --[[User:LucienSadi|LucienSadi]] 20:40, 11 December 2008 (EST)
:I seriously doubt Toady could have foreseen that kind of situation, and probably ignored it. Besides, as long as he's not drowning, I don't see any reason he shouldn't eat. I certainly wouldn't let myself starve just because I was in chest deep water :P --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 00:47, 25 January 2009 (EST)

== A couple observations ==

Swimmers won't path through water even if they're a legendary swimmer. Though, perhaps they should, currently water completely restricts work in the area. Also, dwarves can swim between z-levels. Non-novice swimmers, at least. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 00:40, 25 January 2009 (EST)

Also, on an oddly humorous side note; it appears that carp and longnose gar can drown. I've only seen it in adventure mode, but it can still happen.

== Saving drowning dwarves ==

how do you do it? what, exactly, do you need to do? i've pretty-much always written 'em off if they've fallen into a river/lake/pond/etc, but i read (in the article) that dwarves would swim to a ramp or such. i've never seen it before, so i didnt think it was possible (hence, the 'swimmer' skill on the embark page always confused me). i've never even seen a dwarf move if they're in water :/ so, what do i need to do to save them? --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 21:17, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

:Dwarves do not fall into rivers/lakes/ponds/etc except when they are pushed/are pulled/have the floor drop out from under them. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 01:25, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

::or 'dodge' into them, or run in after a unicorn they were hunting, yes. i seem to always end up on the map with longnose gar, sturgeon, pike and carp, so alot of my dwarves get pulled in (dispite the restricted traffic areas, and such). and in the article it says they'll swim to the side and go up a ramp or something. quote: "If an untrained or dabbling swimmer jumps into water, four things happen; they start drowning, they are stunned from the impact, they are forced into a prone position, and their movement speed is greatly reduced. The only way to get out of water is to use a ramp or stairway, and if neither are accessible, they're done for.", so.. what do i need to do to give them a chance to get out? where do i put the ramp? on the ground floor, above the water? do i need to dig down into the side of the river, with an ramp? do i need two sets of up/down stairs from the bottom of the river? do i need to construct a wall, door, and a chamber underwater to get them out? what? --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]]

:::You build the ramp on the same z-level as the river, i.e. "in" the river. If you look at the picture on the [[Ramp]] page, if the river was flowing over the grey ramp, then the grey ramp would allow them to escape. You can put them pretty much anywhere that will let your dwarves get out of the river. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 15:50, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

::::yeah, that's what i suspected. i was terribly worried it'd do something strange, though. might be worth adding that to the article, and add that the ramp turns blue when submerged (or, my 'sandy loam downward slope' has)

== Recovering underwater items ==
Can swimmers recover underwater items?

:Dwarves won't try to recover underwater items no matter how good they are at swimming. If they try to retrieve something from shallow water, the swimmer skill will keep them from drowning should the water get deeper or they fall into deeper water or something. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 15:28, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

User:Drunken dwarf

2009-09-19T06:02:13Z

Drunken dwarf: Blanked the page

User:Drunken dwarf

2009-09-19T06:01:34Z

Drunken dwarf: Created page with '"The carp has drowned"-in-game adventure text'

"The carp has drowned"-in-game adventure text

40d Talk:Memory hacking

2009-09-15T22:32:58Z

Drunken dwarf: /* Questions */

== New Release Updates ==
I'm just updating the main page as I figure new things out. Someone else will probably have to redo the formatting, since I don't really know the wiki formatting. --[[User:Zhentar|Zhentar]] 23:30, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

== Creature Structure ==
I have a feeling that offset 0x00 is really a "next" pointer, forming a linked list. The reason being is that I was able to take the 4 byte value and go to that address, and it would be another creature. It progressed for a handful of creatures. Seems logical to assume it does it for all creatures. --[[User:AzureLightning|AzureLightning]] 00:24, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
: I would assume this is true as well, since earlier versions did not have vtables for creatures, only items did. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 18:07, 4 November 2007 (EST)

== Memory Locations ==

Does anyone know the memory location for the current unit focus? --[[User:AzureLightning|AzureLightning]] 14:05, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:My automated tool says it's at current_unit_focus_loc == 00C36540 in .33c, verified by two search patterns, but not manually verified. You probably should have asked this in the .33c subpage. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 16:49, 30 November 2007 (EST)

==Questions==

# Has anyone attempted to decode the memory for the "Choose Fortress Location" screen? Being able to generate a list of all local areas with magma vents would be useful. [[User:Palin88|Palin88]] 20:09, 29 November 2007 (EST)
:: This is a great idea. I suggest going one step further : Give the user a list of options (say : magma, flux, thick forest, chasm, underground river, pit, etc), and logically AND all parts of the map that have those features. That would save people hours of looking for their perfect start location. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 19:25, 8 December 2007 (EST)
:::Hey gang, I'm looking for knowledgeable beta testers for a util that does something like this. It's on my [[User:0x517A5D|wiki page]]. I do want feedback, so please respond with experiences and thoughts. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 03:10, 21 December 2007 (EST)
# It could be important to some people, but the formats are only correct assuming that the dwarf fortress binary is built using release config. Under debug config, std::string structure gains some more fat and the existing offset will be wrong. Not a prob now, but I think it is good to know. [[User:Sphr|Sphr]]
Anyone know if it's possible to edit the amount of dwarves you start with(eg. 10 rather than 7)?

== Version Identity ==
(Sphr: this method DON'T work!)
Thought that the wiki should include some info on how to identify known versions. For lack of a better choice atm, I'm using the version text block that is displayed on main menu.
The version string itself is the string to be expected at the offset. 

("v0.27.169.33a", 0x01BA29B0)
("v0.27.169.33b", 0x01B99FF0)
("v0.27.169.33c", 0x01BA29B0)
("v0.27.169.33d", 0x01B78670)

 [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 2007 Dec 9

:Have you verified that these offsets are always valid? I ask because they are past the end of the static memory area, up in heap space. I can easily see the allocator placing the memory block at different offsets on different computers, or even between different runs on the same computer. I agree that we need a version ID, but at first glance, this doesn't look like a good way to me. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 17:53, 8 December 2007 (EST)
:: I personally use the "Dwarf Fortress" string, with the address shifts I doubt there will be an issue with that. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 18:33, 8 December 2007 (EST)
:::I just looked at that and I disagree. I don't think it's random enough. So far it's been at:
:::* .32a: 0089238C
:::* .33a: 0089338C delta +1000
:::* .33b: 0089438C delta +1000
:::* .33c: 008993A4 delta +5018
:::* .33d: 0089A3A4 delta +1000 
:::You're depending on that to be unique. Or at least that if the string offset is the same, then the variable offsets are the same as well. To me it feels like asking for trouble.
:::I don't have a good answer, but I feel that both of these proposals aren't reliable. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 22:37, 8 December 2007 (EST)
::::I agree, I just went with the "best" solution for now. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 00:47, 9 December 2007 (EST)
:::::Ok, It seems that they are heap allocated. which becomes invalid the moment it gets dumped. This method is not working. Are there any other working ways that people are already using? forum thread mentioned fingerprinting using arbitrary chunks, would suffice too. Anybody can post down the chunks they check for? The other more evil way I see could be to use OS to take the size of the file + the CRC hash value. [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 2007 Dec 9
::::::Actually, the CRC value in the PE header would probably be a pretty good value to match against now that you mention it, since I doubt Toady fudges with it. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 04:45, 9 December 2007 (EST)
:::::::The .CheckSum field of the .EXE's PE header is 0 in all released versions of DF. Won't work. The .TimeDateStamp field has always been unique and probably always will be. That's at 004000F8 and is a DWORD. It might be the best option. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 17:50, 9 December 2007 (EST)
::::::::Agreed, new versions of my tools (.33f, or whatever the next version is) will switch to this method. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 12:56, 10 December 2007 (EST)
::::::I don't use the PE header which can be messed with. I tried using a fast asm based crc32 checksum function. Seems to work, but I'll wait and see first. thread is here[http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=000121]. [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 2007 Dec 10
:::::::I don't understand the threat model this implies. I wouldn't think the PE header is more susceptible to manipulation than the rest of the executable. Less, actually. The game is not packed, so the program text is exposed to anyone who wishes to do a permanent hexedit. In comparison, PE header manipulation is both exotic and fragile, difficult to get right. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 17:41, 10 December 2007 (EST)
::::::::Edits to the PE header would also still throw off that CRC, too. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 17:47, 10 December 2007 (EST)
:::::::::Don't get me wrong, it was in response to 0x517A5D's mentioning that checksum is all 0 in the pe header for the binaries. What I mean by messing up isn't necessarily due to deliberate attempts. It was referring to cases like this (though I find it strange that checksums are not updated automatically by filesystem). I think the timestamp method could work as well. Cheaper too. Just throwing out this discussion coz perviously, there is no shared info at all on version identification. So I'm just throwing ideas around to hope to hopefully "lure" out any better suggestions. [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 2007 Dec 11
::::::::::Why would the system update an executables checksum in the header? --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 00:33, 11 December 2007 (EST)
:::::::::::I don't mean the os fs. As in the file io part of whoever created that pe. Not very sure about pe, but are there os-specific libraries that does the actual creation or every compiler just does their own stuff? Thought that the final step of computing crc32 and writing the value into the header (otherwise defeats the purpose of having a checksum) should be automatic (by whoever created the pe). Sorry if my questions seemed dumb. Did not deal with low level stuff for a long time. [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 21:47, 11 December 2007 (EST)
::::::::::::To the best of my knowledge, the checksum field is not used on either executables or DLLs. (It is used on device drivers.) Every compiler comes with a linker; the linker does its own stuff, following the rules of PE layout. I'm not aware of any linker that fills in the checksum field. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 03:40, 12 December 2007 (EST)
:::::::::::::I see. Thanks for the info! btw, since the timestamp seems to be a cheaper way that seems to work, can we set up a version identifying page that describes the method as well as publish known fingerprint values along with the binary versions? As an alternative, maybe the crc32 can be placed there too, though if timestamp is working fine, there may be no need to record the values for future binary versions (unless the tool developer is paranoid, or in the not too possible future we may need to fingerprint non PE-structured files). [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 21:16, 12 December 2007 (EST)

== Race ==
Does anyone care about creature race data? All I've figured out is that it starts with 41 (!) strings, but it would be easy to compare fields to the data in the raw files. Useful? —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 13:44, 18 December 2007 (EST)

: The ID/name would probably be good for any tool made to manipulate all creatures, as for race data, it could probably be parsed from raws instead of bothering with memory, after identifying which race it is. --[[User:Rick|Rick]] 15:38, 18 December 2007 (EST)

::Personally, I would find it useful. Easier if everything is taken from the same process. Loading from file is fine but that becomes another level of management and data synchronization and integrity ensurance can be troublesome. (e.g. Ensure that the order in memory is the order from file, which may not always be the case if code changes) If we read the string table directly from memory, at least can be sure that the index indeed refers to a string regardless of any data jumbling between the loading part and the final resultant string table. Was hoping that the race data vec and language data can get rid of all the hard-coded string tables in the tools once and for all. --[[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 21:23, 18 December 2007 (EST)

::I'm quite interested too, as discovering the details of the race struct would tremendously help the interpretation of some flags in the creature structure. Is there a macro to insert your signature with date?? --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]]

:::All right, I will spend some time on this. Four tildes, like this: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 12:58, 19 December 2007 (EST)
::::Thanks in advance! @Bartavelle, it took me a while to figure that one out after reading wikimedia editing guide. I used to key in dates manually... lol -- [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 15:37, 19 December 2007 (EST)
:Okay. It's in the .33f subpage. I think I am not going to maintain it. I will check each version to see if the object size changes, but that's about it. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 22:39, 19 December 2007 (EST)

::Yay! IDA structs! I'll check if that helps me decypher the flags, or not. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 02:13, 20 December 2007 (EST)
:::On that note, do you (or anyone) want the structures and enum in a file importable by IDA?   —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 17:01, 20 December 2007 (EST)
:::: Everybody with IDA would be happy I guess, even if that only means me :) [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 02:11, 21 December 2007 (EST)
:::::Mm hmm. I'm having second thoughts, though. Are you a legitimate, licensed user? —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 02:51, 21 December 2007 (EST)
::::::I am. With hex-rays, bindiff, all the stuff. Anyway, why would this matter? It would just save the copying of the huge structure (like 15 minutes, but lazyness factor is high for this kind of work) ... [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 04:12, 21 December 2007 (EST)
:::::::Hex-rays, oooh. Bin-diff, sweet. I only have standard IDA 5.0; can't justify more than that for my job. I was leary just `cause I don't want to promote piracy of IDA. Though I have no moral high ground to stand on; I download multiple gigabytes of pirated material every day. Here's my structures as of last night. [http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=other&file=df33f.idc] This does not include some minor work done on other versions. Also, the sole instantiation of the screen object starts at 015547E8; I forgot to comment that in the structure. (Aside, does anyone know a better hosting site than [http://www.yourfilehost.com www.yourfilehost.com]? I'm not too happy with them.) —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 14:43, 21 December 2007 (EST)