Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.34 Talk:Container

2013-06-20T07:09:51Z

Elfy:

Internally, the 4 "container" types which count as Chests are actually called '''boxes''' - item type BOX:NONE (with item class "item_boxst") and building class "building_boxst". --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:31, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Do dwarves actually USE boxes/chests/coffers at all in the current economyless versions? Looking at the coffers in my dwarves' bedrooms with (t), none of them have any items stored in them. Not even my duke. --[[Special:Contributions/65.101.174.116|65.101.174.116]] 03:59, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

I think earthenware pots need to be glazed to be used at all. The article says they should be glazed to store liquid, but I haven't seen dwarves using unglazed earthenware to store any food either. --[[User:Elfy|Elfy]] ([[User talk:Elfy|talk]]) 07:09, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

v0.34 Talk:Minecart

2013-06-15T12:29:26Z

Elfy: /* Magma Transport */

== References ==
Check this list before removing any content. --[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] ([[User Talk:Dree12|talk]]) 00:38, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
* adventurer can take ride in minecart [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=51245.msg3285544#msg3285544]
* animals ignore traffic designations [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3281823#msg3281823]
* dwarf drops baby when boarding cart [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3287845#msg3287845]
* floors remove engraved tracks [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3283948#msg3283948]
* fluids are heavy and can kill momentum [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3286633#msg3286633]
* guided minecarts ignore rollers [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3286235#msg3286235]
* items falling out can hurt dwarves [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3284958#msg3284958]
* magma-filled cart doesn't harm rider [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3287332#msg3287332]
* minecarts can be stolen [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3289070#msg3289070]
* minecarts moving fast enough can skip over water [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3285528#msg3285528]
* minecarts have huge capacities [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3284519#msg3284519][http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3284742#msg3284742]
* rollers don't work if frozen [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3284745#msg3284745]
* rollers use two power per tile at highest speed [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3282712#msg3282712]
* skipping does not depend on weight [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3285968#msg3285968]
* Minecart derailment speed, Track Stop friction [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=112831.msg3508793#msg3508793]

== Cave-Ins ==
Carved tracks on a section that caves in will appear on the ground where they land (destroying ramps they land on). Feature or bug?--[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 12:34, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

== Minecart Tricks ==
Has anyone considered compiling a list of unusual things you can do with minecarts, like dwarven rollercoasters or traps?

Sure. Here are a few examples:

The Stupid Dwarf Trick using a perfectly agile soldier to create metal could be done using a cart moving back and forth on rollers.

A clock generator using a pressure plate and a minecart can be made with on-ticks at easily adjusted intervals. Simply put a roller at either end, or, even more simply, make a loop track with a pressure plate in the middle and adjacent rollers pushing outwards. While the rollers are powered, the minecart will continue to roll back and forth on the tracks and trigger the pressure plate again and again.

Dwarves can be flung across impassable chasms using carts; this is similar to the H.E.L.P.

Squad cars: Have a powered system to move your military quickly to the front entrance of your fortress. Give all your military hauling jobs, and have a series of carts hidden behind a bridge; the lever closes them in and opens the cars, then the squad moves at extremely high speeds to wherever the track takes them. This is horribly impractical, but very dwarvenly. Note that full speed rollers move carts about a tile every two ticks, which is much faster than most dwarves. It's an insane amount of work to get it to work, but it might be worth it? [[User:The Real Marauder|The Real Marauder]] 01:23, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

I support the Squad cars idea; we may not be able to mount actual beasts into battle, but now we have the next best thing (I have a delirious/delicious image on my mind right now I wish you could see). Also, how about carving tracks running straight from one end of your entrance corridor to the other, with a lava moat on the innermost part so you could fling magma-filled minecarts to run down invaders? It could use a bridge-based minecart gate as suggested by [[User:The Real Marauder|The Real Marauder]] above. (This assumes carts drop contents on collision, as suggested by Toady's 05/10/2012 entry.) --[[User:Seikatsukan|Seikatsukan]] 22:52, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

How about minecart "landing pods" that actually launch the soldiers out of the fort into the middle of the battlefield, splattering enemies while delivering the soldiers straight to the fun? Could this be done safely? -[[User:Billw|Billw]]

== Bridges versus Hatches ==

It's been noted that retracting bridges can be used as track direction switching points, as well as the fact that bridges will ''fling'' minecarts if they happen to be in the way while the bridge is switching. Would hatch covers also work for this? If they do, they would have the advantages of being instantaneous (rather than a 100 tick delay) and non-disruptive to minecarts (since they don't flingify stuff). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:59, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Hatches have close to the same friction as ground thus making a poor substitute for track.

Hatches don't seem to have an own 'direction' that would overwrite underlying tracks (which is what allows bridges to operate as switches). At least in my test, a cart followed a hatch-covered track corner faithfully instead of continuing in a straight line.

== Capacity ==

We could probably improve by listing a few (verified) capacities of minecarts for common items. Are we sure about the volume numbers shown on [[DF2012:Weight]] , as it looks like you should have 83 blocks per minecart rather than 100. -- [[User:UristDaVinci|UristDaVinci]] 05:08, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

== Physics ==

The physics section could use an overhaul/rewrite, with some numbers for track friction, track stop friction etc., since the first such are now available. Well, some have been available [[http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3362517#msg3362517|for almost a month]], some are [[http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=112831.0|more recent]]. I can do at least some of it myself, but off to sleep for today. -- [[User:Snaake|Snaake]] 23:32, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

I added a section on controlling speed and am using the m/s units to mean tiles/step as I couldn't see any already in use standard for speed. This is the units used in the second post you link, I think it is pretty good. --[[User:Billw|Billw]] 12:39, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

== Weight ==
Seems like it doesn't affect their speed nor it does affect their slowdown. An empty feather tree minecart (lightest) seems to have the same speed as a platinum one filled with platinum nuggets (heaviest) when pushed/launched from roller. Also, they both are unable to scale more than one z-level when launched by a single-tile top-speed roller.--[[User:HYBRID BEING|HYBRID BEING]] 07:52, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
:I wouldn't be surprised if rollers aren't affected by weight. They are a relatively new feature (see {{bug|5911}} for an example). According to the article, minecarts '''do''' accelerate and decelerate based on weight, but not when guided by dwarves. They also aren't affected by weight when [[Minecart#Skipping|Skipping]]. Feel free to add a note of this to the article if you like (for example, under [[Minecart#Roller|this section]]). --{{User:Lethosor/sig}} 22:23, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
::I didn't test driving them but as i said they moved at the same speed (i failed to notice the expected from such different minecarts difference in speed, at the very least) when pushed, no rollers involved. --[[User:HYBRID BEING|HYBRID BEING]] 10:14, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

:::Actually, this is an interesting result of (real-world) physics. Gravitational potential energy is mass * gravity * height, while kinetic energy is 1/2 * mass * velocity2. When you set these two formulas equal the mass terms cancel out. That means that two objects that start at the same height (and velocity) will have the same final velocity after rolling down the same hill (ignoring all other forces like wind resistance). I don't know how detailed the game's modeling of this is, but your result is mostly expected (though it does imply that rollers apply a "constant velocity" to minecarts). To find out if mass is being modeled correctly you can transfer the energy to something else. For instance, if you place a [[dog]] on the tracks at the bottom of the hill, the loaded platinum minecart should hit the dog and continue on at roughly the same speed. The featherwood minecart may hit the dog and stop completely, having insufficient energy left to continue moving. Or they may both do the same thing, strongly implying that mass is not being modeled. --[[User:Loci|Loci]] 20:27, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
::::Ah, thanks for the refresher course. The thing is i didn't use a slope for pushing test. Then again that doesn't really matter since deceleration is not dependent on mass. Friction, as the only force affecting the minecart (since normal force and weight cancel each out on horizontal surface), is mass * deceleration and equals to friction coefficient * normal force (mass * gravity) ('''FF = a*m = µk*N = µk*m*g''' => '''a = µk*g''')
::::So rather than affecting their speed/deceleration it should affect initial velocity. --[[User:HYBRID BEING|HYBRID BEING]] 09:37, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
:::::I filed this as a {{bug|6296}}. I'll add this bug to the article later if no problem would arise. --[[User:HYBRID BEING|HYBRID BEING]] 05:45, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

== Magma-Safe ==

It turns out that nether cap minecarts are not magma-safe and can not be used for hauling magma.

== Magma Transport ==

When trying to fill a mine cart with magma, apparently it is possible that the minecart can go under Magma fast enough where no magma will settle inside the cart. --[[User:Mnjiman|James H]] ([[User talk:Mnjiman|talk]]) 04:43, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Are you sure that minecart does not just skim over the magma? I've seen similar symptoms: fast (well, relatively. after going one or two ramps down IIRC) minecart, no magma at the end of the route. But looking at it in step mode I saw that minecart never drops in magma to begin with. Best way is to just drop minecarts in magma from above, I suppose. --[[User:Elfy|Elfy]] ([[User talk:Elfy|talk]]) 12:29, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

== Mess ==
This article is a mess, how can it be Masterwork? It even has redlinks. Sure, there is quite an amount of content and the examples are well done, but the arrangement doesn't make it easy for new players. It certainly isn't "aesthetically pleasing." The lede is random content dumped there:

* "Since their introduction in version 0.34.08, a new hauling labor preference was added to all dwarves, called "Push/Haul Vehicles", turned on by default." does not belong in the lede either. Instead there should be a section ==Using Minecarts== that covers just such basics.

* "If a minecart is moving fast enough, or if it has a rider, thieves will be unable to steal the minecarts." certainly doesn't belong in the lede.

*"The invention of minecarts revolutionized the Science of Dwarfputing by enabling smaller, faster logic systems to be built." and then not a word follows in the article unless I overlooked it.

*The section on tracks opens quite abruptly. The very least would be a sentence like "to do anything useful with minecarts you need to create tracks"

*I would also argue against "Covers an important "must-read" topic".

* Physics covers some really obscure details that might fit better with quirks. In any case both sections need a merge and/or reorganizing.

*Capacity should be near the top as it is essential info for the player who asks: is it economically worth it? and certainly is basic info.

*An article using an elven word like "boulders" should be auto-disqualified. I fixed this.

* The Capacity section was worded poorly. I tried to improve it.
--[[User:Old Ancient|Old Ancient]] ([[User talk:Old Ancient|talk]]) 18:37, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

v0.34 Talk:Monarch

2013-06-07T11:18:56Z

Elfy: /* Monarch's race */

The demand for duke isn't correct, I have a queen, but still only have a countess. No dukes.

This seems to imply that the "queen consort" or "king consort" only come with the monarch. However I just received a "queen consort" with my first wave of immigrants.

Running 34.07 the king came dressed as a peasant after I discovered adamantine.

Confirming the above, I was only a barony and the king just arrived. I actually haven't even gone down to the first cavern yet, let alone discovered adamantine. The king is wearing standard clothing (no quality). He is also a blatant vampire... "Rigoth Alathber, king vampire" with the Ñ symbol and all. 
I'm also not so sure about the road requirement. I only have 4 3x10 and 1 4x9 Claystone Block Paved Roads... That is 42 blocks, each worth 5 for a total material value of 210.
This is version 34.11 btw.
--[[User:Takitaktak|Takitaktak]] 10:18, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

:Bridges also count. And you can't just count the materials; roads and bridges have quality, so the skill levels of both the architect and builder increase the constructions' values. 'n' -> 'c' shows you the road value with all factors taken into account, so use that as a guide if you're trying to avoid getting prematurely kinged [[User:Urist McDorf|Urist McDorf]] 06:37, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Confirming even more the above as a vampire king arrived in my fortress where i didn't even have a barony neither did i have roads, BUT i did offer a real LOT of stuff to the dwarven caravan (185777)

34.11 here. County, no roads at all. Offered about 10-11K. King arrived and is a blatant vampire. [[User:Great Cthulhu|Great Cthulhu]] 22:12, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

:Did you get any special announcement about the King's arrival (i.e. a fullscreen message, just like the arrival of a siege), or did he just show up as part of a migrant wave? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:29, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

::Sorry, only just saw your message. I think there was an announcement, but I'm not sure. I am sure that he arrived with a retinue of legendaries, though. [[User:Great Cthulhu|Great Cthulhu]] 22:01, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

The {{k|n}}-{{k|c}} option appears for me as a city. --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] 22:00, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
:Clarification: I have 193 dwarves and recently hit 1159975{{db}} created wealth. Maybe over 1 million {{db}} is required? --[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] 22:09, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

== Monarch requirements can vary somewhat ==

It's been mentioned [[v0.31_Talk:Monarch#Wrong_numbers_in_value_requirements|before]] that the requirements (architecture and offerings, but not roads as of, what, v34.01?) can vary somewhat. At present I have a king-ready (>140 dwarfizens) fort, and my requirements are architecture 10K (current 34K) and offerings 7500 (current 0). Thinking of replacing the numbers with just "varies", but if 15K and 5K are what most people see, it's still useful information. Perhaps add a "values can vary" and/or a "see notes" in the side bar with an explanation in the text. [[User:Urist McDorf|Urist McDorf]] 10:23, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
:Back in version 0.23.130.23a, the logic was "10000☼ architecture, 5000☼ roads, and 5000☼ offerings, with one of the 3 requirements boosted by 50%", so you could end up with 15000/5000/5000, 10000/7500/5000, or 10000/5000/7500. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 11:18, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

== King is dead ==
I just lost my king to an ambush. Does it mean that I will get replacement or I will not have king anymore?

== Monarch's race ==

Vampires? Elves? Huh. My queen just arrived. And... she seems to be an animal :-D She can be assigned to a pasture or put in a cage. Job status on {{k|u}} screen is "Tame". I can't even assign a room to her! 442 years old too. Amazing. Creature from myths, I guess.

On the positive side she seems to be rather... non-demanding. Or at least there are no preferences listed in details and she's always "quite content", even without her Royal rooms :) --[[User:Elfy|Elfy]] ([[User talk:Elfy|talk]]) 11:18, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

v0.34 Talk:Monarch

2013-06-07T10:51:32Z

Elfy: /* Monarch's race */ new section

v0.34 Talk:Experience

2013-05-18T11:35:04Z

Elfy: /* Exact numbers for exp/task */ new section

I'm adding this information because this is the first place I came looking for it.
Experience in Fortress Mode can be modified via memory editing. Each skill takes the form of two values located in similar addresses. The level (Skilled:4;Adept:7;etc) is at one address and the experience from the previous level is stored at another. This means that for a Miner with 4893 exp you would search for a level of 6 and an experience of 393. To level him to adept you change the level to 7 or the experience to 1100.

Experiance levels after legendary are definetaly different in the newest version's adventure mode. It continues with same 'previous level plus 100 experiance points' increments well into 3000 or legendary +10 in throwing and archery after 20 minutes of science and marijuana smoking. Tested with latest release Aug/18/2012

Playing 34.11 Fortress Mode with DFhack superdwarf on my miner, he reached level 24 mining (39,860exp). He's retired from mining now, but if I remember I'll run him beyond level 25 later and report. (22:11, 4 February 2013 (UTC))

== Exact numbers for exp/task ==

1. Rusty skill will gain less exp/task than typical.

2. For Armorer typical is 60 exp/task and '''90''' exp/task for tasks producing pair of items. So for training your armorer gauntlets or high boots are the way to go (if values in [[Melt item|Melting]] page are correct then make/melt cycle will actually ''produce'' metal). --[[User:Elfy|Elfy]] ([[User talk:Elfy|talk]]) 11:35, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Skill

2010-08-16T01:01:44Z

Elfy: /* On Wrestlers and Bronze Colossuses */

== Migrants ==

You can get migrants at any skill level, in any skill. I've got strand extractors before discovering adamantium, and legendary migrants before they've done any work.

== Teacher/Leader/Student ==

Are these related to the new military training system, or are they something else, like a general ability to learn? Or is the dwarf's learning ability based on his attributes? Would a dwarf with high leader skill be better at running a fortress, or is that for running a squad? --Kydo 14:43, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Toady said something about them being able to only teach weapon skills, and the general combat / dodging sort of abilities, so I don't think they have any other impact.

== Skill levels ==
Ok, I just took this from the 40d version, as I assume most of this wouldn't have changed, but I don't know how to check for the appropriate xp values. So far I think the order remained unchanged, except "No label" got replaced by "Adequate", and I'm relatively sure Dabbling through Competent are still correct, and Great through Legendary. I just put this here to reflect the "Adequate" change, and so anybody who knows how to check for the rest can update and put it into the wiki page, as it's lacking at the moment.
I added the question marks so people can remove them once they confirm the levels, and change the order if it is found to be different. --[[User:Ramperkash|Ramperkash]] 16:17, 6 April 2010 (UTC+2)

{| style="margin: 0 auto; border: 1px solid black; border-spacing: 0"
|-
| width="33%" style="border-right: 1px solid black;" |
{| width="100%"
! Level !! XP
|-
| Dabbling || align="right" | 1??
|-
| Novice || align="right" | 500??
|-
| Adequate || align="right" | 1100??
|-
| Competent || align="right" | 1800??
|-
| Skilled || align="right" | 2600??
|-
| Proficient || align="right" | 3500??
|-
| Talented || align="right" | 4500??
|}
| width="33%" style="border-right: 1px solid black;" |
{| width="100%"
! Level !! XP
|-
| Adept || align="right" | 5600??
|-
| Expert || align="right" | 6800??
|-
| Professional || align="right" | 8100??
|-
| Accomplished || align="right" | 9500??
|-
| Great || align="right" | 11000??
|-
| Master || align="right" | 12600??
|-
| High Master || align="right" | 14300??
|}
| width="33%" |
{| width="100%"
! Level !! XP
|-
| Grand Master || align="right" | 16100??
|-
| Legendary || align="right" | 18000??
|-
| Legendary+1 || align="right" | 20000??
|-
| Legendary+2 || align="right" | 22100??
|-
| Legendary+3 || align="right" | 24300??
|-
| Legendary+4 || align="right" | 26600??
|-
| Legendary+5 || align="right" | 29000??
|}
|}
:I can now confirm that the skill levels remained the same (up to Legendary at least), except that the "Adequate" prefix replaced the "No-label" one, and I still don't know how to test the xp values, might be able to check them in adventure mode. --[[User:Ramperkash|Ramperkash]] 17:26, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
::They appear to be unchanged when I look at them in Dwarf Therapist. [[User:Garanis|Garanis]] 17:42, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:::This would not go on this page, it would go on [[experience]].--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:46, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

A list of skill descriptors on this page would be useful and this table is as good as any, though perhaps the numbers aren't needed here [[User:Cpad|Cpad]] 02:32, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

==Quality Skills==
I've been trying to compose a list of skills where level affects quality modifiers, versus skills where level is otherwise important, versus skills where level only affects speed.

Affects Quality:
Architect (cannot have mood)
Mason
Engraver (cannot have mood)
Mechanic
Carpenter
Bowyer
Siege Engineer
Cook
Trapper (for making traps)
Weaponsmith
Armorsmith
Blacksmith
Metal Crafter
Bone Carver
Stone Crafter (though, who cares, amirite?)
Wood Crafter (even more useless)
Leatherworker
Weaver
Gem Cutter
Gem Setter

Otherwise Important:
Miner (get all them gems)
Planter (for fat stacks)
All medical
All military
Judge of Intent
Appraiser

Just speed:
Organizer
Record Keeper
Soap Maker
All others

This seems pretty final now, so I'mma go figure out how to make a table on this wiki. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 17:00, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

==skill penalties==
I'm pretty sure I've seen my legendary miners not dropping stone (or rough jewels, or ore), if they're exhausted, so it does seem to be a straight penalty. I'll add it to the article provisionally. Could someone else verify?

* Toady commented that as of 31.08, this should only apply to "starving" people (and presumably dehydrated) (comment at http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=8). What have your mining experiences been in 31.08? -- [[User:Creidieki|Creidieki]] 05:34, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
**I was pretty confident that it was exhaustion, but it's entirely possible I mistook a brown arrow for a gray one.[[Special:Contributions/75.164.146.98|75.164.146.98]] 02:40, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

===Layout===
Could someone please edit the layout so that the skill levels is side-by-side with the skills available? Would make a much better page layout and easy reference at a glance. -[[User:Dezbro|Dezbro]] 03:02, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

== Skill Rust ==

I believe that Skill Rust should be incorporated into the Skill article of this Wiki, rather than having a separate article. -[[User:Kogan Loloklam|Kogan Loloklam]] 14:02, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Example of negative effect of skill rust: adept metalcrafter (very rusty) produces items of basic quality only. "Only" as in 15 or 20 in a row. Also dwarf with rusty skill gets less XP per job. I saw numbers as little as 14 XP vs 30 XP for not rusty skill. [[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 22:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I *think* that skills out of use for an extremely long time start to fall in levels - my bookkeeper was a High Master Fish Dissector when he turned up a few years back, he's now a Master Fish Dissector. I'll keep a better eye on this and report back.--[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 21:56, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

: I think it's true. I have a bunch of stonecrafters from Master to Grand Master levels which could only be formerly Legendary from mood as I don't do much stonecrafting. [[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 00:58, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

== Bugs? Mainly with modding ==

Would putting in a bug section be out of place if the bugs are solely on the modding side? Like warning modders that if you disable one skill in a metaskill group the whole metaskill group disappears? [[User:KaelemGaen|KaelemGaen]] 14:59, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
:I don't think it would be worth it... just put the bugs in the discussion thread and if somebody feels like it maybe they will transpose them in the main page. [[User:Speed112|Speed112]] 16:32, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

== On Wrestlers and Bronze Colossuses ==

I had a fresh recruit fighting a Bronze Colossus for some reason. Obviously, without any skills to his name, he immediately began wrestling the thing. The next instant, he was an Elite Wrestler. I imagine that trying to wrestle a gigantic living bronze statue can be an extraordinary learning experience. Although he was pummeled into a pulp despite his new elite-ness, does anyone know exactly why this happened?--[[Special:Contributions/162.83.223.4|162.83.223.4]] 02:54, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah, this happens in any combat now. Before (or after?) dying military dwarf is promoted. It looks very funny. --[[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 01:01, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Skill

2010-08-16T00:58:37Z

Elfy: /* Skill Rust */

v0.31 Talk:Skill

2010-08-09T22:57:13Z

Elfy: /* Skill Rust */

v0.31 Talk:Bone

2010-07-26T12:54:40Z

Elfy:

As far as I can tell, bones and skulls are now listed as "Body parts" for stockpiles and the stocks screen. However, so are tendons, hair, and other useless detritus. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 18:16, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm having no luck at all butchering the skeletons at a butcher's shop. Is there something special you have to do?
:I second that question.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 21:42, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

:I think only skeletons of slaughterable animals are possible to butcher.. [[User:Eroing|Eroing]] 23:54, 4 May 2010 (CET)

:<s>I see that bones (alongside with feathers, nervous tissues, etc) actually go to refuse/remains stockpile, not body parts stockplile. That is, with all other types of refuse forbidden, including body parts. Good thing about it is that it's possible to separate usable bones from eh... useless imported body parts. Bad thing is that bones are still mixed with other remains which will probably rot producing miasma underground.</s> It's only for underground's creature parts, they go to any refuse stockpile, probably bug. [[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 11:26, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

== The bones of my enemies ==

I've found that even though things like goblins and trolls can't be butchered (as they're sentient), I'll still sometimes wind up with goblin and troll bone stacks in my refuse stockpile. Is it known what conditions cause that to happen, and how they can be replicated? I miss encrusting everything in goblin bone... [[Special:Contributions/174.3.234.111|174.3.234.111]] 03:38, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
:Don't know for sure. I think it has to do with having chopped off a limb or somesuch, and then the flesh on that limb rots away, leaving behind the bone. I know it happens, because I have gotten actual usable goblin bones before, but I don't know how thoroughly dissected the limb has to be - whether just cutting off the lower arm will do, or if the hand has to go first, or what. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:32, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Bone

2010-07-26T11:26:04Z

Elfy:

As far as I can tell, bones and skulls are now listed as "Body parts" for stockpiles and the stocks screen. However, so are tendons, hair, and other useless detritus. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 18:16, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm having no luck at all butchering the skeletons at a butcher's shop. Is there something special you have to do?
:I second that question.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 21:42, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

:I think only skeletons of slaughterable animals are possible to butcher.. [[User:Eroing|Eroing]] 23:54, 4 May 2010 (CET)

:I see that bones (alongside with feathers, nervous tissues, etc) actually go to refuse/remains stockpile, not body parts stockplile. That is, with all other types of refuse forbidden, including body parts. Good thing about it is that it's possible to separate usable bones from eh... useless imported body parts. Bad thing is that bones are still mixed with other remains which will probably rot producing miasma underground. [[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 11:26, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

== The bones of my enemies ==

I've found that even though things like goblins and trolls can't be butchered (as they're sentient), I'll still sometimes wind up with goblin and troll bone stacks in my refuse stockpile. Is it known what conditions cause that to happen, and how they can be replicated? I miss encrusting everything in goblin bone... [[Special:Contributions/174.3.234.111|174.3.234.111]] 03:38, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
:Don't know for sure. I think it has to do with having chopped off a limb or somesuch, and then the flesh on that limb rots away, leaving behind the bone. I know it happens, because I have gotten actual usable goblin bones before, but I don't know how thoroughly dissected the limb has to be - whether just cutting off the lower arm will do, or if the hand has to go first, or what. --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:32, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Age

2010-07-10T17:50:15Z

Elfy:

Is it worth it to mention the trivia that if you seek the age of a baby born on that day, it says "S/He was born today, which makes him/her very young indeed."? -[[User:Yeti Yeti|Yeti Yeti]] 08:35, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

== What is effect of age on dwarves? ==
Is it my imagination or fact that dvarves will lose some of attributes with age? I see in Runesmith that one of my dwarves have strength attribute constantly decreasing, point by point. I wonder what is the cause of it... [[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 17:50, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Elfy

2010-07-01T03:04:25Z

Elfy: /* Modvalue */

==Modvalue==

Hi! I noticed you were adding modvalues to some of the underground creatures. Great work! However, one way of doing so which is faster than checking raw materials is to look at the raws directly. Each creature page has the raws available, and if a creature has valuable body parts there will be a [MODVALUE:_] tag at the very bottom of its raw entry. That should make things much easier for you.--[[User:JohnnyMadhouse|JohnnyMadhouse]] 15:34, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, a lot of them now use [MULTIPLY_VALUE:_] directly beneath [SELECT_MATERIAL:_]. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:35, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
::My bad. I was going by memory for the tag name, it's still at the very bottom. --[[User:JohnnyMadhouse|JohnnyMadhouse]] 19:30, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Ah, that's right, thanks. Didn't noticed it --[[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 03:04, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Jabberer

2010-06-30T10:22:56Z

Elfy: fixed skin variable, value modifier=4 derived from tanned hide value (20)

{{quality|Fine|08:00, 22 May 2010 (UTC)}}{{av}}
{{CreatureInfo v0.31|name=Jabberer|symbol=J|color=5:0:1
|bones=62
|fat=≈30
|skin=hide
|skulls=1
|meat=≈150
|eyes=2
|lung=≈16
|heart=≈4
|intestines=≈25
|liver=≈8
|tripe=≈8
|sweetbread=≈4
|spleen=≈4
|kidney=≈8
|brain=≈8
|valm=4
|biome= * Subterranean {{L|cavern}}
|wiki=no
}}

:''A huge monster that lurks in caverns deep under the earth. It uses its wide beak to reach down and pluck up unsuspecting intruders.''

Jabberers are giant creatures. They exist to kill dorfs. (Seriously, one crawled out from the cavern system, and slaughtered everything sent to kill it.)

Can be used as a mount by {{L|goblin}} siegers.

{{gamedata}}
{{Creatures}}
{{Category|Animals}}

v0.31:Rutherer

2010-06-30T10:19:23Z

Elfy: value modifier=3 derived from bone crafts value

{{CreatureInfo v0.31
|name=Rutherer
|symbol=R
|color=7:0:0
|bones=37
|fat=13
|skulls=1|horns=0|hoofs=0|ivory=1
|meat=90
|eyes=2
|lung=6
|heart=1
|intestines=10
|liver=3
|tripe=3
|sweetbread=1
|spleen=1
|kidney=2
|brain=3
|valm=3
|biome=
* Subterranean {{L|cavern}}
|wiki=no}}
{{av}}{{Quality|Fine}}

:''A huge monster with an enormous tail, covered with thick fur. They run on four legs and can be found deep under the earth.''

They are good enough in a fight to kill most unarmed or untrained recruits.

They can accompany goblins on sieges as mounts.

{{gamedata}}
{{Creatures}}
{{Category|Animals}}

v0.31:Rutherer

2010-06-27T14:58:38Z

Elfy: add stat

{{CreatureInfo v0.31
|name=Rutherer
|symbol=R
|color=7:0:0
|bones=37
|fat=13
|skulls=1|horns=0|hoofs=0|ivory=1
|meat=90
|eyes=2
|lung=6
|heart=1
|intestines=10
|liver=3
|tripe=3
|sweetbread=1
|spleen=1
|kidney=2
|brain=3
|biome=
* Subterranean {{L|cavern}}
|wiki=no}}
{{av}}{{Quality|Fine}}

:''A huge monster with an enormous tail, covered with thick fur. They run on four legs and can be found deep under the earth.''

They are good enough in a fight to kill most unarmed or untrained recruits.

They can accompany goblins on sieges as mounts.

{{gamedata}}
{{Creatures}}
{{Category|Animals}}

v0.31:Food

2010-06-23T18:06:23Z

Elfy: /* Processes */ organs are edible without cooking, verified

{{av}}
'''Food''' is anything {{L|dwarves}} eat to ward off starvation, but if they are not able to attain sustenance then they will get hungry, have bad thoughts, and eventually die. Dwarves can withstand hunger for a while in order to continue working, but will gain bad thoughts from doing so. Common foods are {{L|butcher|meat}}, {{L|fishing|fish}}, {{L|farming|crops}}, and {{L|plant gathering|gathered shrubs}}.

Eating good food will make your dwarves happy, so a good {{L|cook}} is an excellent investment. Also, each dwarf has a {{L|Preferences|preference}} for certain foods. Both starting dwarves and immigrants only have preferences for "dwarven" food (basically underground crops and meat the dwarven caravan brings). They will however gain new favorites if you present them with human and elven products (above ground crops e.g.) If you want a colorful game or need any food you can get, fire away. If however you want to optimize happiness from food but still keep stock menues small and tidy, be cautious about what you trade with caravans. For example, presumably, expensive meat makes your dwarves happier than cheap mule meat, but any plants the elves bring are not more valuable than your own.

==Sources==

The possible sources of food are {{L|farming}}, {{L|plant gathering}}, {{L|fishing}}, {{L|trading}}, {{L|butcher's shop|butchering animals}}, {{L|ambusher|Hunting}}, and {{L|Milk|milking}}. Farming is by far the most reliable.

When starving, dwarves will catch and consume {{l|vermin}} to survive, resulting in an unhappy thought.

==Processes==

Some food is inedible raw, and needs processing first. For example:
* {{L|Fat}} must be rendered ({{L|kitchen}}) into {{L|tallow}} and then cooked ({{L|kitchen}})
* Raw {{L|fish}} must be {{L|fish cleaner|cleaned}} ({{L|fishery}})
* {{L|Sweet pod|Sweet pods}} must be either milled into {{L|dwarven sugar}} ({{L|Millstone|mill}}/{{L|quern}}), processed to barrels of {{L|dwarven syrup}} ({{L|farmer's workshop}}), or brewed into barrels of {{L|Alcohol|dwarven rum}} ({{L|Still|brewery}}) before they can finally be cooked ({{L|kitchen}})
* {{L|Cave wheat}}, {{L|Whip vine}} and {{L|Longland grass}} must be milled into their respective flours and cooked.
* Milk has to be cooked or turned into cheese.
Unprocessed food and non-food {{L|crop|crops}} will be stored in a food stockpile and take up barrel space; the {{L|bookkeeper}} can tell you how much of each type of "food" you have in the {{L|stocks}} screen.

{{L|organ|Organs}} are edible without cooking.{{version|0.31.08}}

[[Category:Food]]

40d Talk:Room

2010-03-05T05:24:09Z

Elfy: /* The fine art of dwarven room appraisal */ obsidian and soil verified

==Smoothing walls==
"Walls with ore or gems cannot be smoothed, much less detailed." Is this still true? I'd heard that smoothing/engraving of ore veins is now possible. And yet again, I can't test because I'm reading the wiki at work while waiting for a database query to finish... >_> --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 17:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I deleted the comment about not being able to smooth ore or gems, because you CAN in this version (they all count as different types of rocks). Boo whoever copy pasted the article without looking at it.

::what was the point in aechiving old wiki if people are going to copy and paste, please people if you are going to copy paste thourghly read the article to ensure all info is correct, i didnt read past this so there may be more but rooms are no longer diamonds, this is somehing really obvious and should have been picked up on by whoever copy pasted it otherwise we may as well stick with edditing old wiki. [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 20:08, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

==room value==
Is there a way to check what price a room currently has without counting it yourself? Just wanted to know if I counted right. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:33, 4 November 2007 (EST)

::if the economy has started you might be able to, past that though probably not :( --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 18:17, 8 November 2007 (EST)

My dwarves' thoughts have lately included reference to dining in a "legendary" dining room, but the best one I currently have is listed as "Fine" when I assign it to someone. Does this correspond directly to the value of the room (I intend to bring it up to Royal to find out) or is there something else at work there? [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:55, 15 November 2007 (EST)

I have a proper closed bedroom in silty clay loam. There is a masterpiece bed in that room. The price of the bed is 120. The rental cost of the room is 99. Most (all?) other bedrooms also have their rental cost less then the sum of the furniture values. There could be 2 explanations:
1) rental cost is not exactly equal to the room value in this version.
2) the way room value is calculated is substantially different from the previous version.
--[[User:Another|Another]] 11:56, 1 December 2007 (EST)

Does anybody know of a more recent study than the Draxxalon one? It's really, really old, and even my limited testing has shown that it is very, very wrong. I'm hoping that there's something more recent that we can use to fix it before resorting to the gutting that it most likely would otherwise require --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 11:16, 20 February 2009 (EST)

: I just started looking at this in earnest yesterday. I built a dorm complex of several nearly-identical rooms and wanted to verify that there was at least some stratification so poorer dorfs could find a place to sleep. The algebra isn't hard to do, so I'm going to see if I can dig out some bedroom test chambers and get verification. My driving goal is to quantify the value of wall tiles, floor tiles, smoothing, and engraving; initial poking around seemed to imply that all furniture except for the bed contributes its sticker price to the room. --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 19:50, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

:: I'm also looking at this. Though, mostly in respect to royal quality rooms. I've built a room above-ground entirely out of obsidian blocks and masterful clear glass windows... assuming every obsidian tile is therefore worth 15 (164 ground tiles, 42 wall), and every window is worth 1500 (there are 16 of these), the room should be worth 27090, with no other objects. Added two giant spider silk bags to get the value to 30150, and it is still grand. I'll play around with this some more, as I'm baffled as to how this isn't yet royal quality. -[[User:Belathus|Belathus]] 17:26, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

::: How large is your room Belathus? From what I've observed the larger the room the higher the value. For intance I built something like a 5x5 office for my duke containing only a masterful limestone chair and table with smoothed floors and walls and it went up to grand. I forgot to check if the noble liked limestone, tables, or chairs though. Secondly based on some observations in block housing it would seem the lowest rent possible is 21? 10 for a no quality wood bed and 1 for each connected sand floor and wall (it doesn't count the corners apparently!) 0 for the door it would seem (i used obsidian) unless its interior (untested). I'm wondering though, is there any difference between soil, sand, and value 1 rock? -RampagingFrodo

=== Influences on room quality ===

:''As a bonus, a single chest, cabinet, armor stand, and weapon rack will count as three of each, for every noble in the room. (This works because most nobles have three rooms; if they see a chest in their bedroom, study, and dining room, they ''obviously'' have three chests, right? Nobody accused the nobles of being particularly bright.)

:000173 ▪ (0.22.120.23a) [dwarf mode][nobles] if you have a noble claim the same item with three of their rooms, it'll count three times in their holdings number

Am I reading the changelog right? It looks like this bug was fixed in 23a. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 02:31, 26 November 2007 (EST)

In that same section, it states that the value of a shared room is quartered. I've seen several times on the forum that the value of a shared room is only halved. This should be checked as well. --[[User:Skanky|Skanky]] 03:14, 28 January 2008 (EST)

:I've only seen it as half, but I typically assign the two rooms to the same noble. It could be that it's quatered if you assign the two rooms to two different nobles (and same for more rooms to one noble vs more than one).--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 17:42, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Question regarding rent: does anybody know the time period that a bedroom's listed rent refers to? For instance, if a room's rent says 44☼, is that per month, or per season, or what? --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:45, 30 January 2009 (EST)
:Aaaaaand just saw another discussion that said that no, nobody knows. So nevermind then --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 11:16, 20 February 2009 (EST)

=== The fine art of dwarven room appraisal ===

I researched factors affecting room value and exact parameters for calculating it based on bedrooms. Here are results.

1. Room consists of tiles. Every tile showing as part of the room (flashing when querying one) adds to '''base value of the room''' (walls and floor tiles alike), with exception of tile with external door which does not count.

2. Every tile's value depends on material, smoothing and type (wall/floor) in various combinations as follows:

{| class="wikitable" border="1" cellspacing="0"
|-
! colspan="2" |  
! base
! smooth
|-
| rowspan="2" width="150px" | layer-forming stone, soil
| floor
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x4
|-
| wall
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x5
|-
| rowspan="2" | all other type of stone, ores and gems
| floor
| align="center" | material multiplier
| align="center" | x7
|-
| wall
| align="center" | material multiplier
| align="center" | x9
|-
| rowspan="2" | constructed
| floor
| align="center" colspan="2" | material multiplier x 7
|-
| wall
| align="center" colspan="2" | material multiplier x 9
|}

Constructed walls and floor "replace" value of the tile they are placed on.

Sum of values added by every tile plus cost of room-formative furniture (main bed for bedroom) gives '''base room value'''.

3. '''Real room value''' is affected by openness. Think of it as of how many sides of the room are open vs. completely limited by walls. There are four levels.

* Fully closed. All walls are continuous. Only access is through stairs or ramp. Wall with a door does not count as limiting.
* 3 walls. Think of usual room which takes all avaliable space and is accessed through the door in one of the walls. Take away wall with a door -- it is still the same. Surprisingly rooms with two parallel walls but spreading wider along the walls than between them are counted as having three limiting walls.
* 2 walls. Think of bed in the corner which takes only part of avaliable space. Square room between two parallel walls is in this category too.
* Fully open. Room is not limited by any walls or is limited by only one wall.

Rooms with complex nonrectangle form may be confusing in this aspect and the exact rule for distinguishing one level from another was not investigated. The main rule still holds though:

'''Real room value''' is '''base room value''' multiplied by modifier according to room level of openness.

{| class="wikitable" border="1" cellspacing="0"
|-
! level
! modifier
|-
| Fully enclosed
| x1
|-
| 3 walls
| x0.875
|-
| 2 walls
| x0.75
|-
| Fully open
| x0.5
|}

4. '''Full room value''' is '''real room value''' plus cost of placed furniture and engravings. Other buildings add to value as well but exact details were not researched.

Furniture cost is added in full (with obvious exception of main bed cost which is affected by openness level).

Engravings are really only one-sided and counts only for the room they are facing. Also, engravings on walls add value to the room even if the wall tiles they are on are not part of the room. It's enough that floor tile facing the engraving is part of the room.

External doors do not add to value and tale the tile they are on from the room as well.

Internal doors add their cost + 30 and do not prevent the tile they are placed on from adding its value. The details on '+30' bonus were not researched though.

Contrary to beliefs statues and windows do not prevent floor tiles they are placed on or wall tiles they are placed at from contributing value to the room. The only thing special about them is that they work as walls and therefore may affect space available for the room. So if you put statue in the corner it will make very corner tile unavaliable for room. You can still place them along the wall with at least one tile between each, or anywhere in the middle of the room and they won't influence max room space.

This said I should note that everything works this way after resizing/remaking room after making changes. Making changes to already designed room without resizing may give different results and may be exploited in some ways.

It is unknown if other types of rooms are following these rules, as it is impossible to tell exact room value for them.

[[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 04:56, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

:Wow, great job on figuring out these numbers. Now i only hope that you can replace/update the stuff on the [[Room]] page. Also i noticed that nowhere on the page is mentioned were you can see the room value. I suppose the room value is equal to the rent, or how did you get these values? --[[User:Pugi|Pugi]] 13:35, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks! Yes, I assumed that room value is the same as rent. I thought of checking stats for created / displayed value, but it's hardly possible with already running big fortress. As of updating, I hoped to get some review/response first. Till today it was just a huge bunch of raw data, so I may use some input on style, organisation and missing parts here. Or should I just copy it there and let it live? Current section on calculating room value is really outdated anyway... --[[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 14:34, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

== Names ==

MANY of the names in the thing are wrong. My epic dining room is described as "Legendary" and the beds that share the room get "Like a personal palace"--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 17:48, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:Are you going by the {{key|r}}oom list or by dwarf thoughts? The article refers to the actual room grade rather than how impressed dwarves are by the room. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:42, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:: Oh dear. My mistake. Letsee... you're right. Bedrooms are Grand and the dining room is Royal. My mistake. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 20:03, 28 February 2008 (EST)

== doors ==
It seems doors don't count anymore in 38c? Every room i checked where the door should move it to the next quality level, it doesn't. This also is true for my artifact door which before turned a room into royal; it's gone now. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:10, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
: What if the door is set as internal? -- [[User:Zardus|Zardus]] 20:14, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:: Then it is counted, but such can make room overlapping difficult. Does anyone know why it was removed? I am saddened by my Artifact door not working right. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 21:57, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
: Doors seem to add to the room's value if the room (as in the blinking teal X's when you q-select the room's defining furniture) extends over the door. However, by default, a room will stop at an external door without actually including that tile. So this means that the easiest way to include a door in a room's value is to set it to internal. However, if you define a room in such a way as to include the door's tile (such as defining the room before you order the door built), you can then set up the door and it will still count towards the room's value. Note that the room's value won't necessarily change by the exact value of the door, due to the newly-added tile affecting the value as well. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:55, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

== engravings ==
How do you tell which side of the wall engravings are on? Do they still have a direction? [[User:QMarx|QMarx]] 01:36, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

:I think they're on both sides of the wall. At least, if i have two 5x3 rooms that share a wall, and I engrave all the walls for the two rooms, both rooms are of the same quality. I'd have to do some specific testing to see if one is worth more but not enough for a difference in quality level... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

== Coffin, Red highlight and (S) ==

When viewing rooms using "r", what does a red highlight and (S) mean? Also, there isn't anything wrong with sticking their own coffin in their room right?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 16:19, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

: I believe that red room names in the rooms panel mean that the room overlaps with another room and thus the value of both rooms is diminished. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 20:52, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

== finding a dwarfes room(s) ==

Am i right that the {{k|r}}ooms screen is meant to let you jump straight to a specific dwarfs room when it is fully implemented?

In the meantime, other than by looking at every table/chair/bed/cage/coffin/statue, how do I find all the (X)rooms allocated to Domas Othsinlolar (or any of his fellows)?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:52, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
:press t after highlighting the room to view the item that makes it so.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 13:40, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
::What I was getting at:
:::When my [[rock hauler]] gets elected [[Mayor]], how do I find his bedroom to free it, so I can allocate him a new one? Do I have to look at every bedroom using either {{k|q}} or {{k|t}}, or is there another way where I can "look up the dwarf" then see all the rooms allocated to him. I hope that is clearer.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:41, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
::::Workaround: you can allocate a new bedroom to your new mayor without bothering with his former bedroom, which will automatically be allocated to nobody. Your only problem now is that you have a crappy hauler bedroom somewhere, which is free. At some point that evasive free bedroom might be claimed by a homeless dwarf.--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 07:59, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
:::::This does not work. I just tried moving all my Metalsmiths to a new set of quarters, and they all ended up wit two bedrooms (vr 28_181_40d). Instead, I had to open the {{k|r}}room window, and locate the dwarf on the list, and use {{k|t}} to zoom to the listed entry in the main menu.
::::::I know it's a bit late for this, but: to be honest, I wouldn't bother. Your Mayor will probably get booted out of office sooner or later, at which point he'll need his hauler bedroom back, and for the effort of finding, deassigning, and reassigning that room you might as well just dig out one more than you need and have done with it. The redundancy doesn't really cost you anything. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 19:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Idea ==

Here's a hint.. In my current game I was having trouble getting my Count's rooms up to an acceptable level. I had a lever in his bedroom with artifact mechanisms that raised the bedroom to royal, but unfortunately I have no very good metalcrafters or masons to make good enough furniture for the other rooms. I did have a legendary weaponsmith though, so I made him construct some steel serrated discs and spiked balls. When masterful, these are worth 3600 each. Then I just constructed a weapon trap in the throne room and it became opulent right away. Too bad there's no way to place armor in a room in a similar way, a steel plate mail that requires the same amount of material is worth 15k even when just exceptional. -- [[User:D64|D64]] 07:58, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
:masons can now make native gold statues if you enable native gold for general use,--[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 17:32, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

== Z levels? ==

I've got a question pertaining to Z levels. Can rooms span multiple Z levels? Does it require a floor hatch? This question is prompted by a floor hatch having the internal/external option. If they can, then I'm in luck, since my communal bedroom (entirely smoothed and engraved) is over a massive smoothed and engraved stockpile.

[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 18:30, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

: Nope, same Z-level only. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:57, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

I've added a note about this in the main article and taken away the old-version warning. But it's sparked an interesting question. If you have an area which spans several z-levels, and you define the lowest level as a room, will the dwarves 'look up' and admire any engravings or such one z-level above their room? --[[User:Khimaera UK|JK]] 21:54, 12 January 2009 (EST)

== Metal Floor over Engraving? ==

I built metal floors over engraved stone in my King's old quarters to increase the room value. I don't know if it worked or not, but later, when I moved him to larger quarters and pried up the floor, the rock underneath had turned into cavern floor. I re-smoothed and re-engraved it. [[User:Lloyd C Griscom|Lloyd C Griscom]] 18:44, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
:Right. If you build a constructed floor over any engraved or smooth or even muddy floor and then remove the constructed floor, the natural floor reverts to dry/rough.--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 12:40, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

== Room Quality and Nobles ==

It should be noted that assigning a normal (legendary) dwarf to a high quality room can make nobles '''very''' unhappy that somebody else got a room as good as (or better than) they did. For example, when I temporarily assigned a Royal bedroom (containing several dozen bags) to one of my siege operators, my King and Queen were "utterly traumatized by a lesser's pretentious sleeping arrangements lately" and my Duchess was "enraged". --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:24, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

== Selecting the quality of furniture ==

Is it possible to select the exact quality of furniture that i place in a room? I want to place a certain bed (+larch bed+ or somthing), but whenever i say "place a bed" here, they always put a crappy bed there. Help ''please''. --[[User:Frandude|Frandude]] 20:42, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
:Any and all methods of doing such a thing require forbidding all the other beds of the given material (excluding the one you want to place, of course). You can detail the beds via encrusting them, and if you take note of the quality of the details on the bed you want to place, you should be able to pick it out from the others (objects of the same type but with different quality details show up as seperate on lists) - but to do that, you'll probably have to forbid all the other beds anyway. COnsidering that as long as you don't have a furniture stockpile the beds are only going to be stacked in one or two places anyway, forbidding them shouldn't be too hard (especially if you use hotkeys). If you don't know how to forbid items inside a building, use "t" to access them. --[[User:3|3]] 21:43, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

:Press {{K|x}} to expand all and select the One piece of furniture you want. This info is located in the very same menu as the selection of the furniture item. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 23:02, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
::Hmmm, now where's the best spot to put that little tidbit of information? I didn't think about it before, but some people might not get what it means by Expand when building beds, etc. Any ideas on where that could fit in? Room page? Furniture page? Or where? It just seems like a necessary thing to mention. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 23:52, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

:::I would say [[Building]], as it's all about the stuff you {{K|b}}uild. We could have a chapter about the actual process: selecting desired items(distance, quality), hauling, building, profit.

:::I find using stockpiles with specific quality levels to filter and forbidding/dumping whatever I do not want works the best, no need to check quality of each one when placing them down

==Plant Values==

Does tilled ground have a value? Also, do the plants growing on tilled ground add to the value of a room, or would they even be considered part of it- like how barrels in a stockpile do not influence room value, because they're part of the stockpile, not the room? Mostly, I'm trying to figure out some way to grow (Build? I hope not) flower gardens to increase room values. For example, making a statue GARDEN. --Kydo 05:42, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Engraving

2010-03-05T01:57:49Z

Elfy: /* room value? */

==Smoothing/engraving vs re-walling==

I started a general page on engraving, mostly to point out that it appears possible to smooth tiles containing ore, since they have been placed in the category of stone now. Haven't tried it on gems, but I'm quite giddy about being able to make an aesthetically pleasing fortress in the middle of an ore vein finally.

:Yes, ore is now exactly the same as regular stone, so it can be smoothed just fine. Make for MUCH nicer fort designs then before. I am not 100% sure but I think gems work the same way too. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 03:49, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
::(For more recent readers, yes, confirmed, they do.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:32, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Note also that rewalling allows for even more aesthetic possibility. And you can extract the ore or gem from a wall and then rebuild it with less useful material.
:Except you can't engrave rewalls. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:10, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

::Actually, you can - I did it accidentally when I was smoothing out a plateau for one of my round towers (the fort was called that, might as well put some round towers in :P). Also added in a channel and they did their job before the lazy engraver could haul his arse to do his. In time, I put up a rewall and came back later to find the top of my rewall engraved with blazing suns, dwarves etc. Kinda confused me when I first saw it tho --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 09:57, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
:::Did you construct these rewalls on top of an engraved floor? That gives the walls the appearance of engraving, but I don't know if it counts as an engraved wall for room value purposes. --[[User:zombiejustice|zombiejustice]] 00:41 2 June 2008 (CDT)

I hit {{K|k}} and everything, looked at my wall, and all it said was "Detailed Obsidian Wall." It doesn't work when I make the walls look like regular walls with lines on them or when I make them have the funky little symbols. My fortress is quite young, but I heard that the engraver can just use his imagination and stuff. What's wrong? --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 19:55, 14 November 2007 (EST)
:Hit {{K|k}} and then hit {{K|Enter}}.

:::as of the latest build you cannot engrave a built wall --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 22:31, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

==stone types & happiness?==
Does the type of stone affect Dwarf happiness? Are they happier if their room contains a golden engraved wall? Or even a granite one? And what about the floor? I've just cleaned out a gold vein and I'm thinking about rewalling it into a dinning hall to take advantage of the gold floor. --[[User:Malenfant|Malenfant]] 11:34, 26 November 2007 (EST)
:[http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000691 Draxxalon's study] suggests that the stone does have an effect. --[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 22:24, 12 December 2007 (EST)

==room value?==
I'm doing a little studying on the architecture value of smoothing/engraving for the current tournament. As far as I can tell, a smoothed wall is worth 8 monies, a smoothed floor is worth 6 monies, and the base value of an engraving is 10 (so an *engraving* is worth 40). The value *DOES NOT* depend on the type of stone, you get the same bonuses even if you smooth/engrave ore. And of course while engravings do have quality, smoothing does not. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 17:20, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

:At one point I noticed a tiny room had an astronomical rent value - turns out the walls were native aluminum (that the game never announced for some reason, and i'd smoothed them without noticing). I mined out the ore and rewalled and the rent dropped substantially. So I'd say ore value matters quite a bit, at least for walls --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:10, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

::Had same thing but with gem floor. About 5 tiles of some x10 value gem floor increased rent from ~2300 (minor noble room) to ~8000. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 15:10, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

:I noticed that sometimes engraving does not count material multiplier, notably engravings on limonite do not have x8 to them. Engraving on gold nuggets wall in the same fortress had proper x30 though. Would be great to check if there is a rule about it or is it some random bug? --[[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 01:57, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

== Quality engravings tell more history ==

When I had my dwarves engrave the history in my story I wrote earlier, they weren't very skilled at engraving. Though my entire fortress had been burnt up by spirits of fire and attacked by goblins a couple years back, only two of thirty engravings depicted a demon and had a story along with it. There were about thirty engravings done, and only three were well-crafted. The three well-crafted included the two about demons, and one that had a fact about my mayor being elected in 1051. The rest, which were normal quality were of pointless designs and creatures never encountered. Quality plays a major role in what is shown in the engraving. I'll add a section about this, does someone know if higher qualities like masterful depict even more?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 16:51, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:I have no desire to savescum and abandon, but I do find that generic dwarf enrgavings tend to be less quality. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 17:10, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
::I checked it out a few times, there's no difference in the history of masterful engravings then there were in well-crafted ones. The only exception is unskillful engravings, they don't tell anything. So it's confirmed then. --[[User:Richards|Richards]] 08:42, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

== Types of stone ==
I'm pressing {{K|d}} then {{K|e}} and selecting an area, then pressing {{K|Enter}}. But it's not seeming to do anything in most bits of my fortress. (I find this with smoothing as well.) Could this be because they're mudstone? Does engraving only work in certain types of rock? It'd be good to clarify this somewhere. --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 08:28, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

alex: you need to smooth the surface first. currently any stone surface can be engraved. first you smooth it from a rough stone surface with {{k|d}} then {{k|s}} first, then designate it for engraving after it is nice and flat. confused me on my very first fort also. --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 05:45, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

== Engraving Constructed Walls ==

Why can't constructed walls/floors be designated for engraving? Has Toady said anything specific about this, or is it just something we have to deal with? --[[User:Rakankou|Rakankou]] 00:15, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
:Have you tried smoothing them first? I think they have to be smoothed first, they also must be made out of stone. [[User:Magikarcher|Magikarcher]] 02:13, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::Constructed walls also can't be designated for smoothing. --[[User:Rakankou|Rakankou]] 03:39, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
I have just had dwarves engrave the floor tile made by the tops of some constructed walls. The engravers were originally ordered to engrave the natural stone walls there, but they were removed before the engravers arrived to make way for a waterfall. When they came, they engraved the floor tile made by the constructed wall on the z-level below.--[[User:Odul|Odul]] 04:43, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:Suddenly, I am hugely confused. The walls beneath the engravings were removed, and now there are engravings on open space.*makes backup*--[[User:Odul|Odul]] 05:10, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

== Toggled engravings differentiation ==

I noticed in a previous fort (in a previous version) that engraved walls, once I'd toggled off their display, were a different shade to the ones that had only been smoothed. I believe it was smoothed basalt (dark grey), and the engravings were lighter - either mid-grey or white. Can anyone confirm? --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 09:15, 16 August 2008 (EDT)
:Yes, I've seen the same thing. Smoothed and Engraved got the same tile, some foreground, different background. Smoothed siltstone was dark brown on black, and hidden-engravings on siltstone was dark brown on grey -- the same grey background as the non-hidden engravings got. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 03:21, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

== About Defacement ==

Will defacing an *engraved wall* or an =engraved wall= annoy the engraver? I have an enormous legendary dining room that I want to make even more legendary by adding a pair of waterfalls, but I don't want to piss off any of my engravers.--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 17:10, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:Only defacing masterpieces (☼) will cause negative thoughts.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:38, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:: Somehow I think the values for negative thoughts for defacing engravings is wrong, actually. I defaced, in the course of a season, roughly 30 masterpieces (legendary +5 engravers can get DAMN annoying when it comes to where you can build) and he never dipped below ecstatic. He hadn't created an artifact (or been freed) recently, and I don 't think much else should be able to reconcile a supposed 1500 negative thoughts. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 22:12, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:::From what I've read elsewhere, the defacement penalty is 1000 divided by the total number of masterpieces created by that dwarf. So if your legendary dwarf has engraved a thousand or more tiles, he'll have made hundreds of masterpieces and the "travesty" over each will only be a few points.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:58, 13 November 2008 (EST)

::::I coulda sworn it was 50 per masterpiece... Ah well. Thanks for the tip. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 22:12, 13 November 2008 (EST)
:::::Maximus is right, for what it's worth. Just a few days ago I inadvertantly told my miners to deface 5 masterpieces of one of my legendary engravers. He'd been with my fortress for many years (i think 5) and had hit legendary about 3 years prior. He's definitely engraved over 100 masterpieces; it may be 250 or more, really. The engraver barely noticed the 5 defacements. He was still ecstatic when I checked him, just chilling out in the statue garden and chatting with a friend. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 00:45, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Goblins can destroy engravings? ==

:''A masterful engraving that is destroyed or defaced (mining, magma, tower caps and goblins do the job nicely...''

News to me.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:44, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Engraving under siege ==

I assume that these battles depicted are actually over, but the whole siege isn't. So it will show, for example, Urist Thunderfist striking down Flowers Treesunshine, the Elf. Which has already happened, but it won't show, for example, Urist Thunderfist striking down Violet Lovefest, the Elf. Which hasn't happened, but is going to happen. So really, engraving under siege doesn't engrave any different than engraving after any other battles. Unless it does actually do the latter. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 19:58, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
:That particular bit of information was added a few months ago by Eerr([[User talk:Eerr|Talk]]) and was cut out without any verifying, I thought it was interesting so I added it back in. Feel free to change any wording you think is deceptive to what you know is true.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 20:08, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== Snow-covered Open Space ==

I dug a Pillar out of the mountain and detailed it. After it collapsed during a cave-in the place where the floor on the top was before, now was detailed open space. Still showing the same engraving as before but in blueish color.
[[User:Voenix|Voenix]] 13:27, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

==Vandalism==

I've had many miners beat/arrested for "Vandalism" after having had my miners remove engravings that I decided I didn't want there because I wanted to continue building past them. Unless you have a better reason for why these miners were suddenly listed as needing to be beat/arrested for "Vandalism" after they destroyed the walls I think that's pretty well verifiable.[[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 21:43, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
:I agree, but do they get punished for words that are less than masterwork quality?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 21:49, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
::My miners never get punished, no matter how many masterful engravings they deface. I have Justice in full effect. --[[User:Overspeculated|Overspeculated]] 19:29, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== How is history made? ==

I don't get what causes dwarves to write what. This one masterwork really irked me. It says...

<blockquote>
Engraved on the wall is an exceptionally designed image of a orc by Kosoth Etagkubuk. The orc is falling.
</blockquote>

This seems pretty standard, but there is a 20-Z pit in my fortress that has collected about 5 army's worth of dismembered-from-impact orcs. Is this where the dwarf got his inspiration? --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 21:54, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
:Yes. If you turn on SHOW_ALL_HISTORY_IN_DWARF_MODE in init.txt, you'll be able to see exactly '''which''' orc is being depicted in the engraving and when it died, though since orcs don't have names, it'll probably come out something like "Engraved on the wall is an exceptionally designed image of the orc by Kosoth Etagkubuk. Is falling. The artwork relates to the collision of the orc with an obstacle in [fortress name] in the [season] of [year]." --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:34, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
::That's very awesome. Thanks man. --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 02:59, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

== D for Dwarf ==

Hey, it's an anonymous poster, but call me ungulateman. I've added a D for Dwarf section at the bottom of the page, since the image of dwarves using their beards as some sort of steel wool or cloth amuses me.

Thoughts? Remove it? [[Special:Contributions/124.149.75.198|124.149.75.198]] 10:10, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

:Sounds about right to me -- [[User:Melek|Melek]] 06:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

:Okay then, I actually made a solid submission to the wiki! :o [[Special:Contributions/124.149.56.27|124.149.56.27]] 05:33, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

== water destroying engravings? ==

Is there any difference between what muddy water will do to an engraving and what clean water will?

I've noticed that in my current fort, water from a pump leak didn't seem to damage engravings, but water from a brook flood error did. Did I just get lucky with the pump leak, or is pumped water engraving-safe?

== Two-sided engravings? ==

If it's true that an engraving only affects the side that it happened from, then it really sucks to have two engraved rooms share a wall, or to dare have any west-open walls be marked for engraving. Is there any way to tell a dwarf to engrave from a specific direction, or to engrave two sides of a wall? --[[User:Aescula|Aescula]] 08:33, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Engraving

2010-03-05T01:57:20Z

Elfy: /* room value? */ some engravings' cost is not affected by material

==Smoothing/engraving vs re-walling==

I started a general page on engraving, mostly to point out that it appears possible to smooth tiles containing ore, since they have been placed in the category of stone now. Haven't tried it on gems, but I'm quite giddy about being able to make an aesthetically pleasing fortress in the middle of an ore vein finally.

:Yes, ore is now exactly the same as regular stone, so it can be smoothed just fine. Make for MUCH nicer fort designs then before. I am not 100% sure but I think gems work the same way too. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 03:49, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
::(For more recent readers, yes, confirmed, they do.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:32, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Note also that rewalling allows for even more aesthetic possibility. And you can extract the ore or gem from a wall and then rebuild it with less useful material.
:Except you can't engrave rewalls. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:10, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

::Actually, you can - I did it accidentally when I was smoothing out a plateau for one of my round towers (the fort was called that, might as well put some round towers in :P). Also added in a channel and they did their job before the lazy engraver could haul his arse to do his. In time, I put up a rewall and came back later to find the top of my rewall engraved with blazing suns, dwarves etc. Kinda confused me when I first saw it tho --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 09:57, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
:::Did you construct these rewalls on top of an engraved floor? That gives the walls the appearance of engraving, but I don't know if it counts as an engraved wall for room value purposes. --[[User:zombiejustice|zombiejustice]] 00:41 2 June 2008 (CDT)

I hit {{K|k}} and everything, looked at my wall, and all it said was "Detailed Obsidian Wall." It doesn't work when I make the walls look like regular walls with lines on them or when I make them have the funky little symbols. My fortress is quite young, but I heard that the engraver can just use his imagination and stuff. What's wrong? --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 19:55, 14 November 2007 (EST)
:Hit {{K|k}} and then hit {{K|Enter}}.

:::as of the latest build you cannot engrave a built wall --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 22:31, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

==stone types & happiness?==
Does the type of stone affect Dwarf happiness? Are they happier if their room contains a golden engraved wall? Or even a granite one? And what about the floor? I've just cleaned out a gold vein and I'm thinking about rewalling it into a dinning hall to take advantage of the gold floor. --[[User:Malenfant|Malenfant]] 11:34, 26 November 2007 (EST)
:[http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000691 Draxxalon's study] suggests that the stone does have an effect. --[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 22:24, 12 December 2007 (EST)

==room value?==
I'm doing a little studying on the architecture value of smoothing/engraving for the current tournament. As far as I can tell, a smoothed wall is worth 8 monies, a smoothed floor is worth 6 monies, and the base value of an engraving is 10 (so an *engraving* is worth 40). The value *DOES NOT* depend on the type of stone, you get the same bonuses even if you smooth/engrave ore. And of course while engravings do have quality, smoothing does not. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 17:20, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

:At one point I noticed a tiny room had an astronomical rent value - turns out the walls were native aluminum (that the game never announced for some reason, and i'd smoothed them without noticing). I mined out the ore and rewalled and the rent dropped substantially. So I'd say ore value matters quite a bit, at least for walls --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:10, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

::Had same thing but with gem floor. About 5 tiles of some x10 value gem floor increased rent from ~2300 (minor noble room) to ~8000. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 15:10, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

:I noticed that sometimes engraving does not count material multiplier, notably engravings on limonite do not have x8 to them. Engraving on gold nuggets wall in the same fortress had proper x30 though. Would be great to check if there is a rule about it or is it some random bug?

== Quality engravings tell more history ==

When I had my dwarves engrave the history in my story I wrote earlier, they weren't very skilled at engraving. Though my entire fortress had been burnt up by spirits of fire and attacked by goblins a couple years back, only two of thirty engravings depicted a demon and had a story along with it. There were about thirty engravings done, and only three were well-crafted. The three well-crafted included the two about demons, and one that had a fact about my mayor being elected in 1051. The rest, which were normal quality were of pointless designs and creatures never encountered. Quality plays a major role in what is shown in the engraving. I'll add a section about this, does someone know if higher qualities like masterful depict even more?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 16:51, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:I have no desire to savescum and abandon, but I do find that generic dwarf enrgavings tend to be less quality. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 17:10, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
::I checked it out a few times, there's no difference in the history of masterful engravings then there were in well-crafted ones. The only exception is unskillful engravings, they don't tell anything. So it's confirmed then. --[[User:Richards|Richards]] 08:42, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

== Types of stone ==
I'm pressing {{K|d}} then {{K|e}} and selecting an area, then pressing {{K|Enter}}. But it's not seeming to do anything in most bits of my fortress. (I find this with smoothing as well.) Could this be because they're mudstone? Does engraving only work in certain types of rock? It'd be good to clarify this somewhere. --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 08:28, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

alex: you need to smooth the surface first. currently any stone surface can be engraved. first you smooth it from a rough stone surface with {{k|d}} then {{k|s}} first, then designate it for engraving after it is nice and flat. confused me on my very first fort also. --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 05:45, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

== Engraving Constructed Walls ==

Why can't constructed walls/floors be designated for engraving? Has Toady said anything specific about this, or is it just something we have to deal with? --[[User:Rakankou|Rakankou]] 00:15, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
:Have you tried smoothing them first? I think they have to be smoothed first, they also must be made out of stone. [[User:Magikarcher|Magikarcher]] 02:13, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::Constructed walls also can't be designated for smoothing. --[[User:Rakankou|Rakankou]] 03:39, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
I have just had dwarves engrave the floor tile made by the tops of some constructed walls. The engravers were originally ordered to engrave the natural stone walls there, but they were removed before the engravers arrived to make way for a waterfall. When they came, they engraved the floor tile made by the constructed wall on the z-level below.--[[User:Odul|Odul]] 04:43, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:Suddenly, I am hugely confused. The walls beneath the engravings were removed, and now there are engravings on open space.*makes backup*--[[User:Odul|Odul]] 05:10, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

== Toggled engravings differentiation ==

I noticed in a previous fort (in a previous version) that engraved walls, once I'd toggled off their display, were a different shade to the ones that had only been smoothed. I believe it was smoothed basalt (dark grey), and the engravings were lighter - either mid-grey or white. Can anyone confirm? --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 09:15, 16 August 2008 (EDT)
:Yes, I've seen the same thing. Smoothed and Engraved got the same tile, some foreground, different background. Smoothed siltstone was dark brown on black, and hidden-engravings on siltstone was dark brown on grey -- the same grey background as the non-hidden engravings got. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 03:21, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

== About Defacement ==

Will defacing an *engraved wall* or an =engraved wall= annoy the engraver? I have an enormous legendary dining room that I want to make even more legendary by adding a pair of waterfalls, but I don't want to piss off any of my engravers.--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 17:10, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:Only defacing masterpieces (☼) will cause negative thoughts.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:38, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:: Somehow I think the values for negative thoughts for defacing engravings is wrong, actually. I defaced, in the course of a season, roughly 30 masterpieces (legendary +5 engravers can get DAMN annoying when it comes to where you can build) and he never dipped below ecstatic. He hadn't created an artifact (or been freed) recently, and I don 't think much else should be able to reconcile a supposed 1500 negative thoughts. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 22:12, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:::From what I've read elsewhere, the defacement penalty is 1000 divided by the total number of masterpieces created by that dwarf. So if your legendary dwarf has engraved a thousand or more tiles, he'll have made hundreds of masterpieces and the "travesty" over each will only be a few points.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:58, 13 November 2008 (EST)

::::I coulda sworn it was 50 per masterpiece... Ah well. Thanks for the tip. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 22:12, 13 November 2008 (EST)
:::::Maximus is right, for what it's worth. Just a few days ago I inadvertantly told my miners to deface 5 masterpieces of one of my legendary engravers. He'd been with my fortress for many years (i think 5) and had hit legendary about 3 years prior. He's definitely engraved over 100 masterpieces; it may be 250 or more, really. The engraver barely noticed the 5 defacements. He was still ecstatic when I checked him, just chilling out in the statue garden and chatting with a friend. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 00:45, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Goblins can destroy engravings? ==

:''A masterful engraving that is destroyed or defaced (mining, magma, tower caps and goblins do the job nicely...''

News to me.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:44, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Engraving under siege ==

I assume that these battles depicted are actually over, but the whole siege isn't. So it will show, for example, Urist Thunderfist striking down Flowers Treesunshine, the Elf. Which has already happened, but it won't show, for example, Urist Thunderfist striking down Violet Lovefest, the Elf. Which hasn't happened, but is going to happen. So really, engraving under siege doesn't engrave any different than engraving after any other battles. Unless it does actually do the latter. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 19:58, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
:That particular bit of information was added a few months ago by Eerr([[User talk:Eerr|Talk]]) and was cut out without any verifying, I thought it was interesting so I added it back in. Feel free to change any wording you think is deceptive to what you know is true.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 20:08, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== Snow-covered Open Space ==

I dug a Pillar out of the mountain and detailed it. After it collapsed during a cave-in the place where the floor on the top was before, now was detailed open space. Still showing the same engraving as before but in blueish color.
[[User:Voenix|Voenix]] 13:27, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

==Vandalism==

I've had many miners beat/arrested for "Vandalism" after having had my miners remove engravings that I decided I didn't want there because I wanted to continue building past them. Unless you have a better reason for why these miners were suddenly listed as needing to be beat/arrested for "Vandalism" after they destroyed the walls I think that's pretty well verifiable.[[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 21:43, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
:I agree, but do they get punished for words that are less than masterwork quality?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 21:49, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
::My miners never get punished, no matter how many masterful engravings they deface. I have Justice in full effect. --[[User:Overspeculated|Overspeculated]] 19:29, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== How is history made? ==

I don't get what causes dwarves to write what. This one masterwork really irked me. It says...

<blockquote>
Engraved on the wall is an exceptionally designed image of a orc by Kosoth Etagkubuk. The orc is falling.
</blockquote>

This seems pretty standard, but there is a 20-Z pit in my fortress that has collected about 5 army's worth of dismembered-from-impact orcs. Is this where the dwarf got his inspiration? --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 21:54, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
:Yes. If you turn on SHOW_ALL_HISTORY_IN_DWARF_MODE in init.txt, you'll be able to see exactly '''which''' orc is being depicted in the engraving and when it died, though since orcs don't have names, it'll probably come out something like "Engraved on the wall is an exceptionally designed image of the orc by Kosoth Etagkubuk. Is falling. The artwork relates to the collision of the orc with an obstacle in [fortress name] in the [season] of [year]." --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:34, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
::That's very awesome. Thanks man. --[[User:Iban|Iban]] 02:59, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

== D for Dwarf ==

Hey, it's an anonymous poster, but call me ungulateman. I've added a D for Dwarf section at the bottom of the page, since the image of dwarves using their beards as some sort of steel wool or cloth amuses me.

Thoughts? Remove it? [[Special:Contributions/124.149.75.198|124.149.75.198]] 10:10, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

:Sounds about right to me -- [[User:Melek|Melek]] 06:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

:Okay then, I actually made a solid submission to the wiki! :o [[Special:Contributions/124.149.56.27|124.149.56.27]] 05:33, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

== water destroying engravings? ==

Is there any difference between what muddy water will do to an engraving and what clean water will?

I've noticed that in my current fort, water from a pump leak didn't seem to damage engravings, but water from a brook flood error did. Did I just get lucky with the pump leak, or is pumped water engraving-safe?

== Two-sided engravings? ==

If it's true that an engraving only affects the side that it happened from, then it really sucks to have two engraved rooms share a wall, or to dare have any west-open walls be marked for engraving. Is there any way to tell a dwarf to engrave from a specific direction, or to engrave two sides of a wall? --[[User:Aescula|Aescula]] 08:33, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Room

2010-03-04T14:34:33Z

Elfy: /* The fine art of dwarven room appraisal */

==Smoothing walls==
"Walls with ore or gems cannot be smoothed, much less detailed." Is this still true? I'd heard that smoothing/engraving of ore veins is now possible. And yet again, I can't test because I'm reading the wiki at work while waiting for a database query to finish... >_> --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 17:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I deleted the comment about not being able to smooth ore or gems, because you CAN in this version (they all count as different types of rocks). Boo whoever copy pasted the article without looking at it.

::what was the point in aechiving old wiki if people are going to copy and paste, please people if you are going to copy paste thourghly read the article to ensure all info is correct, i didnt read past this so there may be more but rooms are no longer diamonds, this is somehing really obvious and should have been picked up on by whoever copy pasted it otherwise we may as well stick with edditing old wiki. [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 20:08, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

==room value==
Is there a way to check what price a room currently has without counting it yourself? Just wanted to know if I counted right. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:33, 4 November 2007 (EST)

::if the economy has started you might be able to, past that though probably not :( --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 18:17, 8 November 2007 (EST)

My dwarves' thoughts have lately included reference to dining in a "legendary" dining room, but the best one I currently have is listed as "Fine" when I assign it to someone. Does this correspond directly to the value of the room (I intend to bring it up to Royal to find out) or is there something else at work there? [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:55, 15 November 2007 (EST)

I have a proper closed bedroom in silty clay loam. There is a masterpiece bed in that room. The price of the bed is 120. The rental cost of the room is 99. Most (all?) other bedrooms also have their rental cost less then the sum of the furniture values. There could be 2 explanations:
1) rental cost is not exactly equal to the room value in this version.
2) the way room value is calculated is substantially different from the previous version.
--[[User:Another|Another]] 11:56, 1 December 2007 (EST)

Does anybody know of a more recent study than the Draxxalon one? It's really, really old, and even my limited testing has shown that it is very, very wrong. I'm hoping that there's something more recent that we can use to fix it before resorting to the gutting that it most likely would otherwise require --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 11:16, 20 February 2009 (EST)

: I just started looking at this in earnest yesterday. I built a dorm complex of several nearly-identical rooms and wanted to verify that there was at least some stratification so poorer dorfs could find a place to sleep. The algebra isn't hard to do, so I'm going to see if I can dig out some bedroom test chambers and get verification. My driving goal is to quantify the value of wall tiles, floor tiles, smoothing, and engraving; initial poking around seemed to imply that all furniture except for the bed contributes its sticker price to the room. --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 19:50, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

:: I'm also looking at this. Though, mostly in respect to royal quality rooms. I've built a room above-ground entirely out of obsidian blocks and masterful clear glass windows... assuming every obsidian tile is therefore worth 15 (164 ground tiles, 42 wall), and every window is worth 1500 (there are 16 of these), the room should be worth 27090, with no other objects. Added two giant spider silk bags to get the value to 30150, and it is still grand. I'll play around with this some more, as I'm baffled as to how this isn't yet royal quality. -[[User:Belathus|Belathus]] 17:26, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

::: How large is your room Belathus? From what I've observed the larger the room the higher the value. For intance I built something like a 5x5 office for my duke containing only a masterful limestone chair and table with smoothed floors and walls and it went up to grand. I forgot to check if the noble liked limestone, tables, or chairs though. Secondly based on some observations in block housing it would seem the lowest rent possible is 21? 10 for a no quality wood bed and 1 for each connected sand floor and wall (it doesn't count the corners apparently!) 0 for the door it would seem (i used obsidian) unless its interior (untested). I'm wondering though, is there any difference between soil, sand, and value 1 rock? -RampagingFrodo

=== Influences on room quality ===

:''As a bonus, a single chest, cabinet, armor stand, and weapon rack will count as three of each, for every noble in the room. (This works because most nobles have three rooms; if they see a chest in their bedroom, study, and dining room, they ''obviously'' have three chests, right? Nobody accused the nobles of being particularly bright.)

:000173 ▪ (0.22.120.23a) [dwarf mode][nobles] if you have a noble claim the same item with three of their rooms, it'll count three times in their holdings number

Am I reading the changelog right? It looks like this bug was fixed in 23a. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 02:31, 26 November 2007 (EST)

In that same section, it states that the value of a shared room is quartered. I've seen several times on the forum that the value of a shared room is only halved. This should be checked as well. --[[User:Skanky|Skanky]] 03:14, 28 January 2008 (EST)

:I've only seen it as half, but I typically assign the two rooms to the same noble. It could be that it's quatered if you assign the two rooms to two different nobles (and same for more rooms to one noble vs more than one).--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 17:42, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Question regarding rent: does anybody know the time period that a bedroom's listed rent refers to? For instance, if a room's rent says 44☼, is that per month, or per season, or what? --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:45, 30 January 2009 (EST)
:Aaaaaand just saw another discussion that said that no, nobody knows. So nevermind then --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 11:16, 20 February 2009 (EST)

=== The fine art of dwarven room appraisal ===

I researched factors affecting room value and exact parameters for calculating it based on bedrooms. Here are results.

1. Room consists of tiles. Every tile showing as part of the room (flashing when querying one) adds to '''base value of the room''' (walls and floor tiles alike), with exception of tile with external door which does not count.

2. Every tile's value depends on material, smoothing and type (wall/floor) in various combinations as follows:

{| class="wikitable" border="1" cellspacing="0"
|-
! colspan="2" |  
! base
! smooth
|-
| rowspan="2" width="100px" | layer-forming stone
| floor
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x4
|-
| wall
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x5
|-
| rowspan="2" | non layer-forming common stone
| floor
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x7
|-
| wall
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x9
|-
| rowspan="2" | ores and gems
| floor
| align="center" | material multiplier
| align="center" | x7
|-
| wall
| align="center" | material multiplier
| align="center" | x9
|-
| rowspan="2" | constructed
| floor
| align="center" colspan="2" | material multiplier x 7
|-
| wall
| align="center" colspan="2" | material multiplier x 9
|}

Constructed walls and floor "replace" value of the tile they are placed on.

Sum of values added by every tile plus cost of room-formative furniture (main bed for bedroom) gives '''base room value'''.

3. '''Real room value''' is affected by openness. Think of it as of how many sides of the room are open vs. completely limited by walls. There are four levels.

* Fully closed. All walls are continuous. Only access is through stairs or ramp. Wall with a door does not count as limiting.
* 3 walls. Think of usual room which takes all avaliable space and is accessed through the door in one of the walls. Take away wall with a door -- it is still the same. Surprisingly rooms with two parallel walls but spreading wider along the walls than between them are counted as having three limiting walls.
* 2 walls. Think of bed in the corner which takes only part of avaliable space. Square room between two parallel walls is in this category too.
* Fully open. Room is not limited by any walls or is limited by only one wall.

Rooms with complex nonrectangle form may be confusing in this aspect and the exact rule for distinguishing one level from another was not investigated. Th main rule still holds though:

'''Real room value''' is '''base room value''' is multiplied by modifier according to its level of openness.

{| class="wikitable" border="1" cellspacing="0"
|-
! level
! modifier
|-
| Fully enclosed
| x1
|-
| 3 walls
| x0.875
|-
| 2 walls
| x0.75
|-
| Fully open
| x0.5
|}

4. '''Full room value''' is '''real room value''' plus cost of placed furniture and engravings. Other buildings add to value as well but exact details were not researched.

Furniture cost is added in full (with obvious exception of main bed cost which is affected by openness level).

Engravings are really only one-sided and counts only for the room they are facing. Also, engravings on walls add value to the room even if the wall tiles they are on are not part of the room. It's enough that floor tile facing the engraving is part of the room.

External doors do not add to value and tale the tile they are on from the room as well.

Internal doors add their cost + 30 and do not prevent the tile they are placed on from adding its value. The details on '+30' bonus were not researched though.

Contrary to beliefs statues and windows do not prevent floor tiles they are placed on or wall tiles they are placed at from contributing value to the room. The only thing special about them is that they work as walls and therefore may affect space available for the room. So if you put statue in the corner it will make very corner tile unavaliable for room. You can still place them along the wall with at least one tile between each, or anywhere in the middle of the room and they won't influence max room space.

This said I should note that everything works this way after resizing/remaking room after making changes. Making changes to already designed room without resizing may give different results and may be exploited in some ways.

It is unknown if other types of rooms are following these rules, as it is imopssible to tell exact room value for them.

There may be additional factors when building rooms in soil, flux or obsidian which were not researched.

Yeah. No flux again on my current map -_-

[[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 04:56, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

:Wow, great job on figuring out these numbers. Now i only hope that you can replace/update the stuff on the [[Room]] page. Also i noticed that nowhere on the page is mentioned were you can see the room value. I suppose the room value is equal to the rent, or how did you get these values? --[[User:Pugi|Pugi]] 13:35, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

::Thanks! Yes, I assumed that room value is the same as rent. I thought of checking stats for created / displayed value, but it's hardly possible with already running big fortress. As of updating, I hoped to get some review/response first. Till today it was just a huge bunch of raw data, so I may use some input on style, organisation and missing parts here. Or should I just copy it there and let it live? Current section on calculating room value is really outdated anyway... --[[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 14:34, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

== Names ==

MANY of the names in the thing are wrong. My epic dining room is described as "Legendary" and the beds that share the room get "Like a personal palace"--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 17:48, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:Are you going by the {{key|r}}oom list or by dwarf thoughts? The article refers to the actual room grade rather than how impressed dwarves are by the room. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:42, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:: Oh dear. My mistake. Letsee... you're right. Bedrooms are Grand and the dining room is Royal. My mistake. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 20:03, 28 February 2008 (EST)

== doors ==
It seems doors don't count anymore in 38c? Every room i checked where the door should move it to the next quality level, it doesn't. This also is true for my artifact door which before turned a room into royal; it's gone now. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:10, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
: What if the door is set as internal? -- [[User:Zardus|Zardus]] 20:14, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:: Then it is counted, but such can make room overlapping difficult. Does anyone know why it was removed? I am saddened by my Artifact door not working right. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 21:57, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
: Doors seem to add to the room's value if the room (as in the blinking teal X's when you q-select the room's defining furniture) extends over the door. However, by default, a room will stop at an external door without actually including that tile. So this means that the easiest way to include a door in a room's value is to set it to internal. However, if you define a room in such a way as to include the door's tile (such as defining the room before you order the door built), you can then set up the door and it will still count towards the room's value. Note that the room's value won't necessarily change by the exact value of the door, due to the newly-added tile affecting the value as well. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:55, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

== engravings ==
How do you tell which side of the wall engravings are on? Do they still have a direction? [[User:QMarx|QMarx]] 01:36, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

:I think they're on both sides of the wall. At least, if i have two 5x3 rooms that share a wall, and I engrave all the walls for the two rooms, both rooms are of the same quality. I'd have to do some specific testing to see if one is worth more but not enough for a difference in quality level... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

== Coffin, Red highlight and (S) ==

When viewing rooms using "r", what does a red highlight and (S) mean? Also, there isn't anything wrong with sticking their own coffin in their room right?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 16:19, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

: I believe that red room names in the rooms panel mean that the room overlaps with another room and thus the value of both rooms is diminished. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 20:52, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

== finding a dwarfes room(s) ==

Am i right that the {{k|r}}ooms screen is meant to let you jump straight to a specific dwarfs room when it is fully implemented?

In the meantime, other than by looking at every table/chair/bed/cage/coffin/statue, how do I find all the (X)rooms allocated to Domas Othsinlolar (or any of his fellows)?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:52, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
:press t after highlighting the room to view the item that makes it so.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 13:40, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
::What I was getting at:
:::When my [[rock hauler]] gets elected [[Mayor]], how do I find his bedroom to free it, so I can allocate him a new one? Do I have to look at every bedroom using either {{k|q}} or {{k|t}}, or is there another way where I can "look up the dwarf" then see all the rooms allocated to him. I hope that is clearer.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:41, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
::::Workaround: you can allocate a new bedroom to your new mayor without bothering with his former bedroom, which will automatically be allocated to nobody. Your only problem now is that you have a crappy hauler bedroom somewhere, which is free. At some point that evasive free bedroom might be claimed by a homeless dwarf.--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 07:59, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
:::::This does not work. I just tried moving all my Metalsmiths to a new set of quarters, and they all ended up wit two bedrooms (vr 28_181_40d). Instead, I had to open the {{k|r}}room window, and locate the dwarf on the list, and use {{k|t}} to zoom to the listed entry in the main menu.
::::::I know it's a bit late for this, but: to be honest, I wouldn't bother. Your Mayor will probably get booted out of office sooner or later, at which point he'll need his hauler bedroom back, and for the effort of finding, deassigning, and reassigning that room you might as well just dig out one more than you need and have done with it. The redundancy doesn't really cost you anything. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 19:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Idea ==

Here's a hint.. In my current game I was having trouble getting my Count's rooms up to an acceptable level. I had a lever in his bedroom with artifact mechanisms that raised the bedroom to royal, but unfortunately I have no very good metalcrafters or masons to make good enough furniture for the other rooms. I did have a legendary weaponsmith though, so I made him construct some steel serrated discs and spiked balls. When masterful, these are worth 3600 each. Then I just constructed a weapon trap in the throne room and it became opulent right away. Too bad there's no way to place armor in a room in a similar way, a steel plate mail that requires the same amount of material is worth 15k even when just exceptional. -- [[User:D64|D64]] 07:58, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
:masons can now make native gold statues if you enable native gold for general use,--[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 17:32, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

== Z levels? ==

I've got a question pertaining to Z levels. Can rooms span multiple Z levels? Does it require a floor hatch? This question is prompted by a floor hatch having the internal/external option. If they can, then I'm in luck, since my communal bedroom (entirely smoothed and engraved) is over a massive smoothed and engraved stockpile.

[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 18:30, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

: Nope, same Z-level only. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:57, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

I've added a note about this in the main article and taken away the old-version warning. But it's sparked an interesting question. If you have an area which spans several z-levels, and you define the lowest level as a room, will the dwarves 'look up' and admire any engravings or such one z-level above their room? --[[User:Khimaera UK|JK]] 21:54, 12 January 2009 (EST)

== Metal Floor over Engraving? ==

I built metal floors over engraved stone in my King's old quarters to increase the room value. I don't know if it worked or not, but later, when I moved him to larger quarters and pried up the floor, the rock underneath had turned into cavern floor. I re-smoothed and re-engraved it. [[User:Lloyd C Griscom|Lloyd C Griscom]] 18:44, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
:Right. If you build a constructed floor over any engraved or smooth or even muddy floor and then remove the constructed floor, the natural floor reverts to dry/rough.--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 12:40, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

== Room Quality and Nobles ==

It should be noted that assigning a normal (legendary) dwarf to a high quality room can make nobles '''very''' unhappy that somebody else got a room as good as (or better than) they did. For example, when I temporarily assigned a Royal bedroom (containing several dozen bags) to one of my siege operators, my King and Queen were "utterly traumatized by a lesser's pretentious sleeping arrangements lately" and my Duchess was "enraged". --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:24, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

== Selecting the quality of furniture ==

Is it possible to select the exact quality of furniture that i place in a room? I want to place a certain bed (+larch bed+ or somthing), but whenever i say "place a bed" here, they always put a crappy bed there. Help ''please''. --[[User:Frandude|Frandude]] 20:42, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
:Any and all methods of doing such a thing require forbidding all the other beds of the given material (excluding the one you want to place, of course). You can detail the beds via encrusting them, and if you take note of the quality of the details on the bed you want to place, you should be able to pick it out from the others (objects of the same type but with different quality details show up as seperate on lists) - but to do that, you'll probably have to forbid all the other beds anyway. COnsidering that as long as you don't have a furniture stockpile the beds are only going to be stacked in one or two places anyway, forbidding them shouldn't be too hard (especially if you use hotkeys). If you don't know how to forbid items inside a building, use "t" to access them. --[[User:3|3]] 21:43, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

:Press {{K|x}} to expand all and select the One piece of furniture you want. This info is located in the very same menu as the selection of the furniture item. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 23:02, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
::Hmmm, now where's the best spot to put that little tidbit of information? I didn't think about it before, but some people might not get what it means by Expand when building beds, etc. Any ideas on where that could fit in? Room page? Furniture page? Or where? It just seems like a necessary thing to mention. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 23:52, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

:::I would say [[Building]], as it's all about the stuff you {{K|b}}uild. We could have a chapter about the actual process: selecting desired items(distance, quality), hauling, building, profit.

:::I find using stockpiles with specific quality levels to filter and forbidding/dumping whatever I do not want works the best, no need to check quality of each one when placing them down

==Plant Values==

Does tilled ground have a value? Also, do the plants growing on tilled ground add to the value of a room, or would they even be considered part of it- like how barrels in a stockpile do not influence room value, because they're part of the stockpile, not the room? Mostly, I'm trying to figure out some way to grow (Build? I hope not) flower gardens to increase room values. For example, making a statue GARDEN. --Kydo 05:42, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Room

2010-03-04T07:48:30Z

Elfy: /* The fine art of dwarven room appraisal */ typos, rephrase of messed up sentence

==Smoothing walls==
"Walls with ore or gems cannot be smoothed, much less detailed." Is this still true? I'd heard that smoothing/engraving of ore veins is now possible. And yet again, I can't test because I'm reading the wiki at work while waiting for a database query to finish... >_> --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 17:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I deleted the comment about not being able to smooth ore or gems, because you CAN in this version (they all count as different types of rocks). Boo whoever copy pasted the article without looking at it.

::what was the point in aechiving old wiki if people are going to copy and paste, please people if you are going to copy paste thourghly read the article to ensure all info is correct, i didnt read past this so there may be more but rooms are no longer diamonds, this is somehing really obvious and should have been picked up on by whoever copy pasted it otherwise we may as well stick with edditing old wiki. [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 20:08, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

==room value==
Is there a way to check what price a room currently has without counting it yourself? Just wanted to know if I counted right. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:33, 4 November 2007 (EST)

::if the economy has started you might be able to, past that though probably not :( --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 18:17, 8 November 2007 (EST)

My dwarves' thoughts have lately included reference to dining in a "legendary" dining room, but the best one I currently have is listed as "Fine" when I assign it to someone. Does this correspond directly to the value of the room (I intend to bring it up to Royal to find out) or is there something else at work there? [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:55, 15 November 2007 (EST)

I have a proper closed bedroom in silty clay loam. There is a masterpiece bed in that room. The price of the bed is 120. The rental cost of the room is 99. Most (all?) other bedrooms also have their rental cost less then the sum of the furniture values. There could be 2 explanations:
1) rental cost is not exactly equal to the room value in this version.
2) the way room value is calculated is substantially different from the previous version.
--[[User:Another|Another]] 11:56, 1 December 2007 (EST)

Does anybody know of a more recent study than the Draxxalon one? It's really, really old, and even my limited testing has shown that it is very, very wrong. I'm hoping that there's something more recent that we can use to fix it before resorting to the gutting that it most likely would otherwise require --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 11:16, 20 February 2009 (EST)

: I just started looking at this in earnest yesterday. I built a dorm complex of several nearly-identical rooms and wanted to verify that there was at least some stratification so poorer dorfs could find a place to sleep. The algebra isn't hard to do, so I'm going to see if I can dig out some bedroom test chambers and get verification. My driving goal is to quantify the value of wall tiles, floor tiles, smoothing, and engraving; initial poking around seemed to imply that all furniture except for the bed contributes its sticker price to the room. --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 19:50, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

:: I'm also looking at this. Though, mostly in respect to royal quality rooms. I've built a room above-ground entirely out of obsidian blocks and masterful clear glass windows... assuming every obsidian tile is therefore worth 15 (164 ground tiles, 42 wall), and every window is worth 1500 (there are 16 of these), the room should be worth 27090, with no other objects. Added two giant spider silk bags to get the value to 30150, and it is still grand. I'll play around with this some more, as I'm baffled as to how this isn't yet royal quality. -[[User:Belathus|Belathus]] 17:26, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

::: How large is your room Belathus? From what I've observed the larger the room the higher the value. For intance I built something like a 5x5 office for my duke containing only a masterful limestone chair and table with smoothed floors and walls and it went up to grand. I forgot to check if the noble liked limestone, tables, or chairs though. Secondly based on some observations in block housing it would seem the lowest rent possible is 21? 10 for a no quality wood bed and 1 for each connected sand floor and wall (it doesn't count the corners apparently!) 0 for the door it would seem (i used obsidian) unless its interior (untested). I'm wondering though, is there any difference between soil, sand, and value 1 rock? -RampagingFrodo

=== Influences on room quality ===

:''As a bonus, a single chest, cabinet, armor stand, and weapon rack will count as three of each, for every noble in the room. (This works because most nobles have three rooms; if they see a chest in their bedroom, study, and dining room, they ''obviously'' have three chests, right? Nobody accused the nobles of being particularly bright.)

:000173 ▪ (0.22.120.23a) [dwarf mode][nobles] if you have a noble claim the same item with three of their rooms, it'll count three times in their holdings number

Am I reading the changelog right? It looks like this bug was fixed in 23a. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 02:31, 26 November 2007 (EST)

In that same section, it states that the value of a shared room is quartered. I've seen several times on the forum that the value of a shared room is only halved. This should be checked as well. --[[User:Skanky|Skanky]] 03:14, 28 January 2008 (EST)

:I've only seen it as half, but I typically assign the two rooms to the same noble. It could be that it's quatered if you assign the two rooms to two different nobles (and same for more rooms to one noble vs more than one).--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 17:42, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Question regarding rent: does anybody know the time period that a bedroom's listed rent refers to? For instance, if a room's rent says 44☼, is that per month, or per season, or what? --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:45, 30 January 2009 (EST)
:Aaaaaand just saw another discussion that said that no, nobody knows. So nevermind then --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 11:16, 20 February 2009 (EST)

=== The fine art of dwarven room appraisal ===

I researched factors affecting room value and exact parameters for calculating it based on bedrooms. Here are results.

1. Room consists of tiles. Every tile showing as part of the room (flashing when querying one) adds to '''base value of the room''' (walls and floor tiles alike), with exception of tile with external door which does not count.

2. Every tile's value depends on material, smoothing and type (wall/floor) in various combinations as follows:

{| class="wikitable" border="1" cellspacing="0"
|-
! colspan="2" |  
! base
! smooth
|-
| rowspan="2" width="100px" | layer-forming stone
| floor
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x4
|-
| wall
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x5
|-
| rowspan="2" | non layer-forming common stone
| floor
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x7
|-
| wall
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x9
|-
| rowspan="2" | ores and gems
| floor
| align="center" | material multiplier
| align="center" | x7
|-
| wall
| align="center" | material multiplier
| align="center" | x9
|-
| rowspan="2" | constructed
| floor
| align="center" colspan="2" | material multiplier x 7
|-
| wall
| align="center" colspan="2" | material multiplier x 9
|}

Constructed walls and floor "replace" value of the tile they are placed on.

Sum of values added by every tile plus cost of room-formative furniture (main bed for bedroom) gives '''base room value'''.

3. '''Real room value''' is affected by openness. Think of it as of how many sides of the room are open vs. completely limited by walls. There are four levels.

* Fully closed. All walls are continuous. Only access is through stairs or ramp. Wall with a door does not count as limiting.
* 3 walls. Think of usual room which takes all avaliable space and is accessed through the door in one of the walls. Take away wall with a door -- it is still the same. Surprisingly rooms with two parallel walls but spreading wider along the walls than between them are counted as having three limiting walls.
* 2 walls. Think of bed in the corner which takes only part of avaliable space. Square room between two parallel walls is in this category too.
* Fully open. Room is not limited by any walls or is limited by only one wall.

Rooms with complex nonrectangle form may be confusing in this aspect and the exact rule for distinguishing one level from another was not investigated. Th main rule still holds though:

'''Real room value''' is '''base room value''' is multiplied by modifier according to its level of openness.

{| class="wikitable" border="1" cellspacing="0"
|-
! level
! modifier
|-
| Fully enclosed
| x1
|-
| 3 walls
| x0.875
|-
| 2 walls
| x0.75
|-
| Fully open
| x0.5
|}

4. '''Full room value''' is '''real room value''' plus cost of placed furniture and engravings. Other buildings add to value as well but exact details were not researched.

Furniture cost is added in full (with obvious exception of main bed cost which is affected by openness level).

Engravings are really only one-sided and counts only for the room they are facing. Also, engravings on walls add value to the room even if the wall tiles they are on are not part of the room. It's enough that floor tile facing the engraving is part of the room.

External doors do not add to value and tale the tile they are on from the room as well.

Internal doors add their cost + 30 and do not prevent the tile they are placed on from adding its value. The details on '+30' bonus were not researched though.

Contrary to beliefs statues and windows do not prevent floor tiles they are placed on or wall tiles they are placed at from contributing value to the room. The only thing special about them is that they work as walls and therefore may affect space available for the room. So if you put statue in the corner it will make very corner tile unavaliable for room. You can still place them along the wall with at least one tile between each, or anywhere in the middle of the room and they won't influence max room space.

This said I should note that everything works this way after resizing/remaking room after making changes. Making changes to already designed room without resizing may give different results and may be exploited in some ways.

It is unknown if other types of rooms are following these rules, as it is imopssible to tell exact room value for them.

There may be additional factors when building rooms in soil, flux or obsidian which were not researched.

Yeah. No flux again on my current map -_-

[[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 04:56, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

== Names ==

MANY of the names in the thing are wrong. My epic dining room is described as "Legendary" and the beds that share the room get "Like a personal palace"--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 17:48, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:Are you going by the {{key|r}}oom list or by dwarf thoughts? The article refers to the actual room grade rather than how impressed dwarves are by the room. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:42, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:: Oh dear. My mistake. Letsee... you're right. Bedrooms are Grand and the dining room is Royal. My mistake. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 20:03, 28 February 2008 (EST)

== doors ==
It seems doors don't count anymore in 38c? Every room i checked where the door should move it to the next quality level, it doesn't. This also is true for my artifact door which before turned a room into royal; it's gone now. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:10, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
: What if the door is set as internal? -- [[User:Zardus|Zardus]] 20:14, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:: Then it is counted, but such can make room overlapping difficult. Does anyone know why it was removed? I am saddened by my Artifact door not working right. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 21:57, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
: Doors seem to add to the room's value if the room (as in the blinking teal X's when you q-select the room's defining furniture) extends over the door. However, by default, a room will stop at an external door without actually including that tile. So this means that the easiest way to include a door in a room's value is to set it to internal. However, if you define a room in such a way as to include the door's tile (such as defining the room before you order the door built), you can then set up the door and it will still count towards the room's value. Note that the room's value won't necessarily change by the exact value of the door, due to the newly-added tile affecting the value as well. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:55, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

== engravings ==
How do you tell which side of the wall engravings are on? Do they still have a direction? [[User:QMarx|QMarx]] 01:36, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

:I think they're on both sides of the wall. At least, if i have two 5x3 rooms that share a wall, and I engrave all the walls for the two rooms, both rooms are of the same quality. I'd have to do some specific testing to see if one is worth more but not enough for a difference in quality level... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

== Coffin, Red highlight and (S) ==

When viewing rooms using "r", what does a red highlight and (S) mean? Also, there isn't anything wrong with sticking their own coffin in their room right?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 16:19, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

: I believe that red room names in the rooms panel mean that the room overlaps with another room and thus the value of both rooms is diminished. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 20:52, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

== finding a dwarfes room(s) ==

Am i right that the {{k|r}}ooms screen is meant to let you jump straight to a specific dwarfs room when it is fully implemented?

In the meantime, other than by looking at every table/chair/bed/cage/coffin/statue, how do I find all the (X)rooms allocated to Domas Othsinlolar (or any of his fellows)?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:52, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
:press t after highlighting the room to view the item that makes it so.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 13:40, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
::What I was getting at:
:::When my [[rock hauler]] gets elected [[Mayor]], how do I find his bedroom to free it, so I can allocate him a new one? Do I have to look at every bedroom using either {{k|q}} or {{k|t}}, or is there another way where I can "look up the dwarf" then see all the rooms allocated to him. I hope that is clearer.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:41, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
::::Workaround: you can allocate a new bedroom to your new mayor without bothering with his former bedroom, which will automatically be allocated to nobody. Your only problem now is that you have a crappy hauler bedroom somewhere, which is free. At some point that evasive free bedroom might be claimed by a homeless dwarf.--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 07:59, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
:::::This does not work. I just tried moving all my Metalsmiths to a new set of quarters, and they all ended up wit two bedrooms (vr 28_181_40d). Instead, I had to open the {{k|r}}room window, and locate the dwarf on the list, and use {{k|t}} to zoom to the listed entry in the main menu.
::::::I know it's a bit late for this, but: to be honest, I wouldn't bother. Your Mayor will probably get booted out of office sooner or later, at which point he'll need his hauler bedroom back, and for the effort of finding, deassigning, and reassigning that room you might as well just dig out one more than you need and have done with it. The redundancy doesn't really cost you anything. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 19:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Idea ==

Here's a hint.. In my current game I was having trouble getting my Count's rooms up to an acceptable level. I had a lever in his bedroom with artifact mechanisms that raised the bedroom to royal, but unfortunately I have no very good metalcrafters or masons to make good enough furniture for the other rooms. I did have a legendary weaponsmith though, so I made him construct some steel serrated discs and spiked balls. When masterful, these are worth 3600 each. Then I just constructed a weapon trap in the throne room and it became opulent right away. Too bad there's no way to place armor in a room in a similar way, a steel plate mail that requires the same amount of material is worth 15k even when just exceptional. -- [[User:D64|D64]] 07:58, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
:masons can now make native gold statues if you enable native gold for general use,--[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 17:32, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

== Z levels? ==

I've got a question pertaining to Z levels. Can rooms span multiple Z levels? Does it require a floor hatch? This question is prompted by a floor hatch having the internal/external option. If they can, then I'm in luck, since my communal bedroom (entirely smoothed and engraved) is over a massive smoothed and engraved stockpile.

[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 18:30, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

: Nope, same Z-level only. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:57, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

I've added a note about this in the main article and taken away the old-version warning. But it's sparked an interesting question. If you have an area which spans several z-levels, and you define the lowest level as a room, will the dwarves 'look up' and admire any engravings or such one z-level above their room? --[[User:Khimaera UK|JK]] 21:54, 12 January 2009 (EST)

== Metal Floor over Engraving? ==

I built metal floors over engraved stone in my King's old quarters to increase the room value. I don't know if it worked or not, but later, when I moved him to larger quarters and pried up the floor, the rock underneath had turned into cavern floor. I re-smoothed and re-engraved it. [[User:Lloyd C Griscom|Lloyd C Griscom]] 18:44, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
:Right. If you build a constructed floor over any engraved or smooth or even muddy floor and then remove the constructed floor, the natural floor reverts to dry/rough.--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 12:40, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

== Room Quality and Nobles ==

It should be noted that assigning a normal (legendary) dwarf to a high quality room can make nobles '''very''' unhappy that somebody else got a room as good as (or better than) they did. For example, when I temporarily assigned a Royal bedroom (containing several dozen bags) to one of my siege operators, my King and Queen were "utterly traumatized by a lesser's pretentious sleeping arrangements lately" and my Duchess was "enraged". --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:24, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

== Selecting the quality of furniture ==

Is it possible to select the exact quality of furniture that i place in a room? I want to place a certain bed (+larch bed+ or somthing), but whenever i say "place a bed" here, they always put a crappy bed there. Help ''please''. --[[User:Frandude|Frandude]] 20:42, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
:Any and all methods of doing such a thing require forbidding all the other beds of the given material (excluding the one you want to place, of course). You can detail the beds via encrusting them, and if you take note of the quality of the details on the bed you want to place, you should be able to pick it out from the others (objects of the same type but with different quality details show up as seperate on lists) - but to do that, you'll probably have to forbid all the other beds anyway. COnsidering that as long as you don't have a furniture stockpile the beds are only going to be stacked in one or two places anyway, forbidding them shouldn't be too hard (especially if you use hotkeys). If you don't know how to forbid items inside a building, use "t" to access them. --[[User:3|3]] 21:43, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

:Press {{K|x}} to expand all and select the One piece of furniture you want. This info is located in the very same menu as the selection of the furniture item. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 23:02, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
::Hmmm, now where's the best spot to put that little tidbit of information? I didn't think about it before, but some people might not get what it means by Expand when building beds, etc. Any ideas on where that could fit in? Room page? Furniture page? Or where? It just seems like a necessary thing to mention. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 23:52, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

:::I would say [[Building]], as it's all about the stuff you {{K|b}}uild. We could have a chapter about the actual process: selecting desired items(distance, quality), hauling, building, profit.

:::I find using stockpiles with specific quality levels to filter and forbidding/dumping whatever I do not want works the best, no need to check quality of each one when placing them down

==Plant Values==

Does tilled ground have a value? Also, do the plants growing on tilled ground add to the value of a room, or would they even be considered part of it- like how barrels in a stockpile do not influence room value, because they're part of the stockpile, not the room? Mostly, I'm trying to figure out some way to grow (Build? I hope not) flower gardens to increase room values. For example, making a statue GARDEN. --Kydo 05:42, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Room

2010-03-04T04:59:29Z

Elfy: /* The fine art of dwarven room appraisal */ typos

==Smoothing walls==
"Walls with ore or gems cannot be smoothed, much less detailed." Is this still true? I'd heard that smoothing/engraving of ore veins is now possible. And yet again, I can't test because I'm reading the wiki at work while waiting for a database query to finish... >_> --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 17:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I deleted the comment about not being able to smooth ore or gems, because you CAN in this version (they all count as different types of rocks). Boo whoever copy pasted the article without looking at it.

::what was the point in aechiving old wiki if people are going to copy and paste, please people if you are going to copy paste thourghly read the article to ensure all info is correct, i didnt read past this so there may be more but rooms are no longer diamonds, this is somehing really obvious and should have been picked up on by whoever copy pasted it otherwise we may as well stick with edditing old wiki. [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 20:08, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

==room value==
Is there a way to check what price a room currently has without counting it yourself? Just wanted to know if I counted right. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:33, 4 November 2007 (EST)

::if the economy has started you might be able to, past that though probably not :( --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 18:17, 8 November 2007 (EST)

My dwarves' thoughts have lately included reference to dining in a "legendary" dining room, but the best one I currently have is listed as "Fine" when I assign it to someone. Does this correspond directly to the value of the room (I intend to bring it up to Royal to find out) or is there something else at work there? [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:55, 15 November 2007 (EST)

I have a proper closed bedroom in silty clay loam. There is a masterpiece bed in that room. The price of the bed is 120. The rental cost of the room is 99. Most (all?) other bedrooms also have their rental cost less then the sum of the furniture values. There could be 2 explanations:
1) rental cost is not exactly equal to the room value in this version.
2) the way room value is calculated is substantially different from the previous version.
--[[User:Another|Another]] 11:56, 1 December 2007 (EST)

Does anybody know of a more recent study than the Draxxalon one? It's really, really old, and even my limited testing has shown that it is very, very wrong. I'm hoping that there's something more recent that we can use to fix it before resorting to the gutting that it most likely would otherwise require --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 11:16, 20 February 2009 (EST)

: I just started looking at this in earnest yesterday. I built a dorm complex of several nearly-identical rooms and wanted to verify that there was at least some stratification so poorer dorfs could find a place to sleep. The algebra isn't hard to do, so I'm going to see if I can dig out some bedroom test chambers and get verification. My driving goal is to quantify the value of wall tiles, floor tiles, smoothing, and engraving; initial poking around seemed to imply that all furniture except for the bed contributes its sticker price to the room. --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 19:50, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

:: I'm also looking at this. Though, mostly in respect to royal quality rooms. I've built a room above-ground entirely out of obsidian blocks and masterful clear glass windows... assuming every obsidian tile is therefore worth 15 (164 ground tiles, 42 wall), and every window is worth 1500 (there are 16 of these), the room should be worth 27090, with no other objects. Added two giant spider silk bags to get the value to 30150, and it is still grand. I'll play around with this some more, as I'm baffled as to how this isn't yet royal quality. -[[User:Belathus|Belathus]] 17:26, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

::: How large is your room Belathus? From what I've observed the larger the room the higher the value. For intance I built something like a 5x5 office for my duke containing only a masterful limestone chair and table with smoothed floors and walls and it went up to grand. I forgot to check if the noble liked limestone, tables, or chairs though. Secondly based on some observations in block housing it would seem the lowest rent possible is 21? 10 for a no quality wood bed and 1 for each connected sand floor and wall (it doesn't count the corners apparently!) 0 for the door it would seem (i used obsidian) unless its interior (untested). I'm wondering though, is there any difference between soil, sand, and value 1 rock? -RampagingFrodo

=== Influences on room quality ===

:''As a bonus, a single chest, cabinet, armor stand, and weapon rack will count as three of each, for every noble in the room. (This works because most nobles have three rooms; if they see a chest in their bedroom, study, and dining room, they ''obviously'' have three chests, right? Nobody accused the nobles of being particularly bright.)

:000173 ▪ (0.22.120.23a) [dwarf mode][nobles] if you have a noble claim the same item with three of their rooms, it'll count three times in their holdings number

Am I reading the changelog right? It looks like this bug was fixed in 23a. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 02:31, 26 November 2007 (EST)

In that same section, it states that the value of a shared room is quartered. I've seen several times on the forum that the value of a shared room is only halved. This should be checked as well. --[[User:Skanky|Skanky]] 03:14, 28 January 2008 (EST)

:I've only seen it as half, but I typically assign the two rooms to the same noble. It could be that it's quatered if you assign the two rooms to two different nobles (and same for more rooms to one noble vs more than one).--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 17:42, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Question regarding rent: does anybody know the time period that a bedroom's listed rent refers to? For instance, if a room's rent says 44☼, is that per month, or per season, or what? --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:45, 30 January 2009 (EST)
:Aaaaaand just saw another discussion that said that no, nobody knows. So nevermind then --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 11:16, 20 February 2009 (EST)

=== The fine art of dwarven room appraisal ===

I researched factors affecting room value and exact parameters for calculating it based on bedrooms. Here are results.

1. Room consists of tiles. Every tile showing as part of the room (flashing when querying one) adds to '''base value of the room''' (walls and floor tiles alike), with exception of tile with external door which does not count.

2. Every tile's value depends on material, smoothing and type (wall/floor) in various combinations as follows:

{| class="wikitable" border="1" cellspacing="0"
|-
! colspan="2" |  
! base
! smooth
|-
| rowspan="2" width="100px" | layer-forming stone
| floor
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x4
|-
| wall
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x5
|-
| rowspan="2" | non layer-forming common stone
| floor
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x7
|-
| wall
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x9
|-
| rowspan="2" | ores and gems
| floor
| align="center" | material multiplier
| align="center" | x7
|-
| wall
| align="center" | material multiplier
| align="center" | x9
|-
| rowspan="2" | constructed
| floor
| align="center" colspan="2" | material multiplier x 7
|-
| wall
| align="center" colspan="2" | material multiplier x 9
|}

Constructed walls and floor "replace" value of the tile they are placed on.

Sum of values added by every tile plus cost of room-formative furniture (main bed for bedroom) gives '''base room value'''.

3. '''Real room value''' is affected by openness. Think of it as of how many sides of the room are open vs. completely limited by walls. There are four levels.

* Fully closed. All walls are continuous. Only access is through stairs or ramp. Wall with a door does not count as limiting.
* 3 walls. Think of usual room which takes all avaliable space and is accessed through the door in one of the walls. Take away wall with a door -- it is still the same. Surprisingly rooms with two parallel walls but spreading wider along the walls than between them are counted as having three limiting walls.
* 2 walls. Think of bed in the corner which takes only part of avaliable space. Square room between two parallel walls is in this category too.
* Fully open. Room is not limited by any walls or is limited by only one wall.

Rooms with complex nonrectangle form may be confusing in this aspect and the exact rule for distinguishing one level from another was not investigated. Th main rule still holds though:

'''Real room value''' is '''base room value''' is multiplied by modifier according to its level of openness.

{| class="wikitable" border="1" cellspacing="0"
|-
! level
! modifier
|-
| Fully enclosed
| x1
|-
| 3 walls
| x0.875
|-
| 2 walls
| x0.75
|-
| Fully open
| x0.5
|}

4. '''Full room value''' is '''real room value''' plus cost of placed furniture and engravings. Other buildings add to value as well but exact details were not researched.

Furniture cost is added in full (with obvious exception of main bed cost which is affected by openness level).

Engravings are really only one-sided and counts only for the room they are facing. Also, engravings on walls add walue to the room even if the room does not actually include the engraved tile, it's enough that floor tile facing the engraving is part of the room.

External doors do not add to value and tale the tile they are on from the room as well.

Internal doors add their cost + 30 and do not prevent the tile they are placed on from adding its value. The details on '+30' bonus were not researched though.

Contrary to beliefs statues and windows do not prevent floor tiles they are placed on or wall tiles they are placed at from contributing value to the room. The only thing special about them is that they work as walls and therefore may affect space available for the room. So if you put statue in the corner it will make very corner tile unavaliable for room. You can still place them along the wall with at least one tile between each, or anywhere in the middle of the room and they won't influence max room space.

This said I should note that everything works this way after resizing/remaking room after making changes. Making changes to already designed room without resizing may give different results and may be exploited in some ways.

It is unknown if other types of rooms are following these rules, as it is imopssible to tell exact room value for them.

There may be additional factors when building rooms in soil, flux or obsidian which were not researched.

Yeah. No flux again on my current map -_-

[[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 04:56, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

== Names ==

MANY of the names in the thing are wrong. My epic dining room is described as "Legendary" and the beds that share the room get "Like a personal palace"--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 17:48, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:Are you going by the {{key|r}}oom list or by dwarf thoughts? The article refers to the actual room grade rather than how impressed dwarves are by the room. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:42, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:: Oh dear. My mistake. Letsee... you're right. Bedrooms are Grand and the dining room is Royal. My mistake. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 20:03, 28 February 2008 (EST)

== doors ==
It seems doors don't count anymore in 38c? Every room i checked where the door should move it to the next quality level, it doesn't. This also is true for my artifact door which before turned a room into royal; it's gone now. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:10, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
: What if the door is set as internal? -- [[User:Zardus|Zardus]] 20:14, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:: Then it is counted, but such can make room overlapping difficult. Does anyone know why it was removed? I am saddened by my Artifact door not working right. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 21:57, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
: Doors seem to add to the room's value if the room (as in the blinking teal X's when you q-select the room's defining furniture) extends over the door. However, by default, a room will stop at an external door without actually including that tile. So this means that the easiest way to include a door in a room's value is to set it to internal. However, if you define a room in such a way as to include the door's tile (such as defining the room before you order the door built), you can then set up the door and it will still count towards the room's value. Note that the room's value won't necessarily change by the exact value of the door, due to the newly-added tile affecting the value as well. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:55, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

== engravings ==
How do you tell which side of the wall engravings are on? Do they still have a direction? [[User:QMarx|QMarx]] 01:36, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

:I think they're on both sides of the wall. At least, if i have two 5x3 rooms that share a wall, and I engrave all the walls for the two rooms, both rooms are of the same quality. I'd have to do some specific testing to see if one is worth more but not enough for a difference in quality level... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

== Coffin, Red highlight and (S) ==

When viewing rooms using "r", what does a red highlight and (S) mean? Also, there isn't anything wrong with sticking their own coffin in their room right?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 16:19, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

: I believe that red room names in the rooms panel mean that the room overlaps with another room and thus the value of both rooms is diminished. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 20:52, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

== finding a dwarfes room(s) ==

Am i right that the {{k|r}}ooms screen is meant to let you jump straight to a specific dwarfs room when it is fully implemented?

In the meantime, other than by looking at every table/chair/bed/cage/coffin/statue, how do I find all the (X)rooms allocated to Domas Othsinlolar (or any of his fellows)?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:52, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
:press t after highlighting the room to view the item that makes it so.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 13:40, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
::What I was getting at:
:::When my [[rock hauler]] gets elected [[Mayor]], how do I find his bedroom to free it, so I can allocate him a new one? Do I have to look at every bedroom using either {{k|q}} or {{k|t}}, or is there another way where I can "look up the dwarf" then see all the rooms allocated to him. I hope that is clearer.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:41, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
::::Workaround: you can allocate a new bedroom to your new mayor without bothering with his former bedroom, which will automatically be allocated to nobody. Your only problem now is that you have a crappy hauler bedroom somewhere, which is free. At some point that evasive free bedroom might be claimed by a homeless dwarf.--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 07:59, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
:::::This does not work. I just tried moving all my Metalsmiths to a new set of quarters, and they all ended up wit two bedrooms (vr 28_181_40d). Instead, I had to open the {{k|r}}room window, and locate the dwarf on the list, and use {{k|t}} to zoom to the listed entry in the main menu.
::::::I know it's a bit late for this, but: to be honest, I wouldn't bother. Your Mayor will probably get booted out of office sooner or later, at which point he'll need his hauler bedroom back, and for the effort of finding, deassigning, and reassigning that room you might as well just dig out one more than you need and have done with it. The redundancy doesn't really cost you anything. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 19:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Idea ==

Here's a hint.. In my current game I was having trouble getting my Count's rooms up to an acceptable level. I had a lever in his bedroom with artifact mechanisms that raised the bedroom to royal, but unfortunately I have no very good metalcrafters or masons to make good enough furniture for the other rooms. I did have a legendary weaponsmith though, so I made him construct some steel serrated discs and spiked balls. When masterful, these are worth 3600 each. Then I just constructed a weapon trap in the throne room and it became opulent right away. Too bad there's no way to place armor in a room in a similar way, a steel plate mail that requires the same amount of material is worth 15k even when just exceptional. -- [[User:D64|D64]] 07:58, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
:masons can now make native gold statues if you enable native gold for general use,--[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 17:32, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

== Z levels? ==

I've got a question pertaining to Z levels. Can rooms span multiple Z levels? Does it require a floor hatch? This question is prompted by a floor hatch having the internal/external option. If they can, then I'm in luck, since my communal bedroom (entirely smoothed and engraved) is over a massive smoothed and engraved stockpile.

[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 18:30, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

: Nope, same Z-level only. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:57, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

I've added a note about this in the main article and taken away the old-version warning. But it's sparked an interesting question. If you have an area which spans several z-levels, and you define the lowest level as a room, will the dwarves 'look up' and admire any engravings or such one z-level above their room? --[[User:Khimaera UK|JK]] 21:54, 12 January 2009 (EST)

== Metal Floor over Engraving? ==

I built metal floors over engraved stone in my King's old quarters to increase the room value. I don't know if it worked or not, but later, when I moved him to larger quarters and pried up the floor, the rock underneath had turned into cavern floor. I re-smoothed and re-engraved it. [[User:Lloyd C Griscom|Lloyd C Griscom]] 18:44, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
:Right. If you build a constructed floor over any engraved or smooth or even muddy floor and then remove the constructed floor, the natural floor reverts to dry/rough.--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 12:40, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

== Room Quality and Nobles ==

It should be noted that assigning a normal (legendary) dwarf to a high quality room can make nobles '''very''' unhappy that somebody else got a room as good as (or better than) they did. For example, when I temporarily assigned a Royal bedroom (containing several dozen bags) to one of my siege operators, my King and Queen were "utterly traumatized by a lesser's pretentious sleeping arrangements lately" and my Duchess was "enraged". --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:24, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

== Selecting the quality of furniture ==

Is it possible to select the exact quality of furniture that i place in a room? I want to place a certain bed (+larch bed+ or somthing), but whenever i say "place a bed" here, they always put a crappy bed there. Help ''please''. --[[User:Frandude|Frandude]] 20:42, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
:Any and all methods of doing such a thing require forbidding all the other beds of the given material (excluding the one you want to place, of course). You can detail the beds via encrusting them, and if you take note of the quality of the details on the bed you want to place, you should be able to pick it out from the others (objects of the same type but with different quality details show up as seperate on lists) - but to do that, you'll probably have to forbid all the other beds anyway. COnsidering that as long as you don't have a furniture stockpile the beds are only going to be stacked in one or two places anyway, forbidding them shouldn't be too hard (especially if you use hotkeys). If you don't know how to forbid items inside a building, use "t" to access them. --[[User:3|3]] 21:43, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

:Press {{K|x}} to expand all and select the One piece of furniture you want. This info is located in the very same menu as the selection of the furniture item. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 23:02, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
::Hmmm, now where's the best spot to put that little tidbit of information? I didn't think about it before, but some people might not get what it means by Expand when building beds, etc. Any ideas on where that could fit in? Room page? Furniture page? Or where? It just seems like a necessary thing to mention. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 23:52, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

:::I would say [[Building]], as it's all about the stuff you {{K|b}}uild. We could have a chapter about the actual process: selecting desired items(distance, quality), hauling, building, profit.

:::I find using stockpiles with specific quality levels to filter and forbidding/dumping whatever I do not want works the best, no need to check quality of each one when placing them down

==Plant Values==

Does tilled ground have a value? Also, do the plants growing on tilled ground add to the value of a room, or would they even be considered part of it- like how barrels in a stockpile do not influence room value, because they're part of the stockpile, not the room? Mostly, I'm trying to figure out some way to grow (Build? I hope not) flower gardens to increase room values. For example, making a statue GARDEN. --Kydo 05:42, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Room

2010-03-04T04:56:00Z

Elfy: /* room value */ how bedroom value is calculated

==Smoothing walls==
"Walls with ore or gems cannot be smoothed, much less detailed." Is this still true? I'd heard that smoothing/engraving of ore veins is now possible. And yet again, I can't test because I'm reading the wiki at work while waiting for a database query to finish... >_> --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 17:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I deleted the comment about not being able to smooth ore or gems, because you CAN in this version (they all count as different types of rocks). Boo whoever copy pasted the article without looking at it.

::what was the point in aechiving old wiki if people are going to copy and paste, please people if you are going to copy paste thourghly read the article to ensure all info is correct, i didnt read past this so there may be more but rooms are no longer diamonds, this is somehing really obvious and should have been picked up on by whoever copy pasted it otherwise we may as well stick with edditing old wiki. [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 20:08, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

==room value==
Is there a way to check what price a room currently has without counting it yourself? Just wanted to know if I counted right. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:33, 4 November 2007 (EST)

::if the economy has started you might be able to, past that though probably not :( --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 18:17, 8 November 2007 (EST)

My dwarves' thoughts have lately included reference to dining in a "legendary" dining room, but the best one I currently have is listed as "Fine" when I assign it to someone. Does this correspond directly to the value of the room (I intend to bring it up to Royal to find out) or is there something else at work there? [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:55, 15 November 2007 (EST)

I have a proper closed bedroom in silty clay loam. There is a masterpiece bed in that room. The price of the bed is 120. The rental cost of the room is 99. Most (all?) other bedrooms also have their rental cost less then the sum of the furniture values. There could be 2 explanations:
1) rental cost is not exactly equal to the room value in this version.
2) the way room value is calculated is substantially different from the previous version.
--[[User:Another|Another]] 11:56, 1 December 2007 (EST)

Does anybody know of a more recent study than the Draxxalon one? It's really, really old, and even my limited testing has shown that it is very, very wrong. I'm hoping that there's something more recent that we can use to fix it before resorting to the gutting that it most likely would otherwise require --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 11:16, 20 February 2009 (EST)

: I just started looking at this in earnest yesterday. I built a dorm complex of several nearly-identical rooms and wanted to verify that there was at least some stratification so poorer dorfs could find a place to sleep. The algebra isn't hard to do, so I'm going to see if I can dig out some bedroom test chambers and get verification. My driving goal is to quantify the value of wall tiles, floor tiles, smoothing, and engraving; initial poking around seemed to imply that all furniture except for the bed contributes its sticker price to the room. --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 19:50, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

:: I'm also looking at this. Though, mostly in respect to royal quality rooms. I've built a room above-ground entirely out of obsidian blocks and masterful clear glass windows... assuming every obsidian tile is therefore worth 15 (164 ground tiles, 42 wall), and every window is worth 1500 (there are 16 of these), the room should be worth 27090, with no other objects. Added two giant spider silk bags to get the value to 30150, and it is still grand. I'll play around with this some more, as I'm baffled as to how this isn't yet royal quality. -[[User:Belathus|Belathus]] 17:26, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

::: How large is your room Belathus? From what I've observed the larger the room the higher the value. For intance I built something like a 5x5 office for my duke containing only a masterful limestone chair and table with smoothed floors and walls and it went up to grand. I forgot to check if the noble liked limestone, tables, or chairs though. Secondly based on some observations in block housing it would seem the lowest rent possible is 21? 10 for a no quality wood bed and 1 for each connected sand floor and wall (it doesn't count the corners apparently!) 0 for the door it would seem (i used obsidian) unless its interior (untested). I'm wondering though, is there any difference between soil, sand, and value 1 rock? -RampagingFrodo

=== Influences on room quality ===

:''As a bonus, a single chest, cabinet, armor stand, and weapon rack will count as three of each, for every noble in the room. (This works because most nobles have three rooms; if they see a chest in their bedroom, study, and dining room, they ''obviously'' have three chests, right? Nobody accused the nobles of being particularly bright.)

:000173 ▪ (0.22.120.23a) [dwarf mode][nobles] if you have a noble claim the same item with three of their rooms, it'll count three times in their holdings number

Am I reading the changelog right? It looks like this bug was fixed in 23a. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 02:31, 26 November 2007 (EST)

In that same section, it states that the value of a shared room is quartered. I've seen several times on the forum that the value of a shared room is only halved. This should be checked as well. --[[User:Skanky|Skanky]] 03:14, 28 January 2008 (EST)

:I've only seen it as half, but I typically assign the two rooms to the same noble. It could be that it's quatered if you assign the two rooms to two different nobles (and same for more rooms to one noble vs more than one).--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 17:42, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Question regarding rent: does anybody know the time period that a bedroom's listed rent refers to? For instance, if a room's rent says 44☼, is that per month, or per season, or what? --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:45, 30 January 2009 (EST)
:Aaaaaand just saw another discussion that said that no, nobody knows. So nevermind then --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 11:16, 20 February 2009 (EST)

=== The fine art of dwarven room appraisal ===

I researched factors affecting room value and exact parameters for calculating it based on bedrooms. Here are results.

1. Room consists of tiles. Every tile showing as part of the room (flashing when querying one) adds to '''base value of the room''' (walls and floor tiles alike), with exception of tile with external door which does not count.

2. Every tile's value depends on material, smoothing and type (wall/floor) in various combinations as follows:

{| class="wikitable" border="1" cellspacing="0"
|-
! colspan="2" |  
! base
! smooth
|-
| rowspan="2" width="100px" | layer-forming stone
| floor
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x4
|-
| wall
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x5
|-
| rowspan="2" | non layer-forming common stone
| floor
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x7
|-
| wall
| align="center" | 1
| align="center" | x9
|-
| rowspan="2" | ores and gems
| floor
| align="center" | material multiplier
| align="center" | x7
|-
| wall
| align="center" | material multiplier
| align="center" | x9
|-
| rowspan="2" | constructed
| floor
| align="center" colspan="2" | material multiplier x 7
|-
| wall
| align="center" colspan="2" | material multiplier x 9
|}

Constructed walls and floor "replace" value of the tile they are placed on.

Sum of values added by every tile plus cost of room-formative furniture (main bed for bedroom) gives '''base room value'''.

3. '''Real room value''' is affected by openness. Think of it as of how many sides of the room are open vs. completely limited by walls. There are four levels.

* Fully closed. All walls are continuous. Only access is through stairs or ramp. Wall with a door does not count as limiting.
* 3 walls. Think of usual room which takes all avaliable space and is accessed through the door in one of the walls. Take away wall with a door -- it is still the same. Surprisingly rooms with two parallel walls but spreading wider along the walls than between them are counted as having three limiting walls.
* 2 walls. Think of bed in the corner which takes only part of avaliable space. Square room between two parallel walls is in thic category too.
* Fully open. Room does not limited by any walls or is limited by only one wall.

Rooms with complex nonrectangle form may be confusing in this aspect and the exact rule for distinguishing one level from another was not investigated. Th main rule still holds though:

'''Real room value''' is '''base room value''' is multiplied by modifier according to its level of openness.

{| class="wikitable" border="1" cellspacing="0"
|-
! level
! modifier
|-
| Fully closed
| x1
|-
| 3 walls
| x0.875
|-
| 2 walls
| x0.75
|-
| Fully open
| x0.5
|}

4. '''Full room value''' is '''real room value''' plus cost of placed furniture and engravings. Other buildings add to value as well but exact details were not researched.

Furniture cost is added in full (with obvious exception of main bed cost which is affected by openness level).

Engravings are really only one-sided and counts only for the room they are facing. Also, engravings on walls add walue to the room even if the room does not actually include the engraved tile, it's enough that floor tile facing the engraving is part of the room.

External doors do not add to value and tale the tile they are on from the room as well.

Internal doors add their cost + 30 and do not prevent the tile they are placed on from adding its value. The details on '+30' bonus were not researched though.

Contrary to beliefs statues and windows do not prevent floor tiles they are placed on or wall tiles they are placed at from contributing value to the room. The only thing special about them is that they work as walls and therefore may affect space available for the room. So if you put statue in the corner it will make very corner tile unavaliable for room. You can still place them along the wall with at least one tile between each, or anywhere in the middle of the room and they won't influence max room space.

This said I should note that everything works this way after resizing/remaking room after making changes. Making changes to already designed room without resizing may give different results and may be exploited in some ways.

It is unknown if other types of rooms are following these rules, as it is imopssible to tell exact room value for them.

There may be additional factors when building rooms in soil, flux or obsidian which were not researched.

Yeah. No flux again on my current map -_-

[[User:Elfy|Elfy]] 04:56, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

== Names ==

MANY of the names in the thing are wrong. My epic dining room is described as "Legendary" and the beds that share the room get "Like a personal palace"--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 17:48, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:Are you going by the {{key|r}}oom list or by dwarf thoughts? The article refers to the actual room grade rather than how impressed dwarves are by the room. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:42, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:: Oh dear. My mistake. Letsee... you're right. Bedrooms are Grand and the dining room is Royal. My mistake. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 20:03, 28 February 2008 (EST)

== doors ==
It seems doors don't count anymore in 38c? Every room i checked where the door should move it to the next quality level, it doesn't. This also is true for my artifact door which before turned a room into royal; it's gone now. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:10, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
: What if the door is set as internal? -- [[User:Zardus|Zardus]] 20:14, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:: Then it is counted, but such can make room overlapping difficult. Does anyone know why it was removed? I am saddened by my Artifact door not working right. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 21:57, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
: Doors seem to add to the room's value if the room (as in the blinking teal X's when you q-select the room's defining furniture) extends over the door. However, by default, a room will stop at an external door without actually including that tile. So this means that the easiest way to include a door in a room's value is to set it to internal. However, if you define a room in such a way as to include the door's tile (such as defining the room before you order the door built), you can then set up the door and it will still count towards the room's value. Note that the room's value won't necessarily change by the exact value of the door, due to the newly-added tile affecting the value as well. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:55, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

== engravings ==
How do you tell which side of the wall engravings are on? Do they still have a direction? [[User:QMarx|QMarx]] 01:36, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

:I think they're on both sides of the wall. At least, if i have two 5x3 rooms that share a wall, and I engrave all the walls for the two rooms, both rooms are of the same quality. I'd have to do some specific testing to see if one is worth more but not enough for a difference in quality level... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

== Coffin, Red highlight and (S) ==

When viewing rooms using "r", what does a red highlight and (S) mean? Also, there isn't anything wrong with sticking their own coffin in their room right?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 16:19, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

: I believe that red room names in the rooms panel mean that the room overlaps with another room and thus the value of both rooms is diminished. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 20:52, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

== finding a dwarfes room(s) ==

Am i right that the {{k|r}}ooms screen is meant to let you jump straight to a specific dwarfs room when it is fully implemented?

In the meantime, other than by looking at every table/chair/bed/cage/coffin/statue, how do I find all the (X)rooms allocated to Domas Othsinlolar (or any of his fellows)?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:52, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
:press t after highlighting the room to view the item that makes it so.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 13:40, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
::What I was getting at:
:::When my [[rock hauler]] gets elected [[Mayor]], how do I find his bedroom to free it, so I can allocate him a new one? Do I have to look at every bedroom using either {{k|q}} or {{k|t}}, or is there another way where I can "look up the dwarf" then see all the rooms allocated to him. I hope that is clearer.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:41, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
::::Workaround: you can allocate a new bedroom to your new mayor without bothering with his former bedroom, which will automatically be allocated to nobody. Your only problem now is that you have a crappy hauler bedroom somewhere, which is free. At some point that evasive free bedroom might be claimed by a homeless dwarf.--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 07:59, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
:::::This does not work. I just tried moving all my Metalsmiths to a new set of quarters, and they all ended up wit two bedrooms (vr 28_181_40d). Instead, I had to open the {{k|r}}room window, and locate the dwarf on the list, and use {{k|t}} to zoom to the listed entry in the main menu.
::::::I know it's a bit late for this, but: to be honest, I wouldn't bother. Your Mayor will probably get booted out of office sooner or later, at which point he'll need his hauler bedroom back, and for the effort of finding, deassigning, and reassigning that room you might as well just dig out one more than you need and have done with it. The redundancy doesn't really cost you anything. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 19:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Idea ==

Here's a hint.. In my current game I was having trouble getting my Count's rooms up to an acceptable level. I had a lever in his bedroom with artifact mechanisms that raised the bedroom to royal, but unfortunately I have no very good metalcrafters or masons to make good enough furniture for the other rooms. I did have a legendary weaponsmith though, so I made him construct some steel serrated discs and spiked balls. When masterful, these are worth 3600 each. Then I just constructed a weapon trap in the throne room and it became opulent right away. Too bad there's no way to place armor in a room in a similar way, a steel plate mail that requires the same amount of material is worth 15k even when just exceptional. -- [[User:D64|D64]] 07:58, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
:masons can now make native gold statues if you enable native gold for general use,--[[User:Eerr|Eerr]] 17:32, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

== Z levels? ==

I've got a question pertaining to Z levels. Can rooms span multiple Z levels? Does it require a floor hatch? This question is prompted by a floor hatch having the internal/external option. If they can, then I'm in luck, since my communal bedroom (entirely smoothed and engraved) is over a massive smoothed and engraved stockpile.

[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 18:30, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

: Nope, same Z-level only. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:57, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

I've added a note about this in the main article and taken away the old-version warning. But it's sparked an interesting question. If you have an area which spans several z-levels, and you define the lowest level as a room, will the dwarves 'look up' and admire any engravings or such one z-level above their room? --[[User:Khimaera UK|JK]] 21:54, 12 January 2009 (EST)

== Metal Floor over Engraving? ==

I built metal floors over engraved stone in my King's old quarters to increase the room value. I don't know if it worked or not, but later, when I moved him to larger quarters and pried up the floor, the rock underneath had turned into cavern floor. I re-smoothed and re-engraved it. [[User:Lloyd C Griscom|Lloyd C Griscom]] 18:44, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
:Right. If you build a constructed floor over any engraved or smooth or even muddy floor and then remove the constructed floor, the natural floor reverts to dry/rough.--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 12:40, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

== Room Quality and Nobles ==

It should be noted that assigning a normal (legendary) dwarf to a high quality room can make nobles '''very''' unhappy that somebody else got a room as good as (or better than) they did. For example, when I temporarily assigned a Royal bedroom (containing several dozen bags) to one of my siege operators, my King and Queen were "utterly traumatized by a lesser's pretentious sleeping arrangements lately" and my Duchess was "enraged". --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:24, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

== Selecting the quality of furniture ==

Is it possible to select the exact quality of furniture that i place in a room? I want to place a certain bed (+larch bed+ or somthing), but whenever i say "place a bed" here, they always put a crappy bed there. Help ''please''. --[[User:Frandude|Frandude]] 20:42, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
:Any and all methods of doing such a thing require forbidding all the other beds of the given material (excluding the one you want to place, of course). You can detail the beds via encrusting them, and if you take note of the quality of the details on the bed you want to place, you should be able to pick it out from the others (objects of the same type but with different quality details show up as seperate on lists) - but to do that, you'll probably have to forbid all the other beds anyway. COnsidering that as long as you don't have a furniture stockpile the beds are only going to be stacked in one or two places anyway, forbidding them shouldn't be too hard (especially if you use hotkeys). If you don't know how to forbid items inside a building, use "t" to access them. --[[User:3|3]] 21:43, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

:Press {{K|x}} to expand all and select the One piece of furniture you want. This info is located in the very same menu as the selection of the furniture item. --[[User:Maska|Maska]] 23:02, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
::Hmmm, now where's the best spot to put that little tidbit of information? I didn't think about it before, but some people might not get what it means by Expand when building beds, etc. Any ideas on where that could fit in? Room page? Furniture page? Or where? It just seems like a necessary thing to mention. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 23:52, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

:::I would say [[Building]], as it's all about the stuff you {{K|b}}uild. We could have a chapter about the actual process: selecting desired items(distance, quality), hauling, building, profit.

:::I find using stockpiles with specific quality levels to filter and forbidding/dumping whatever I do not want works the best, no need to check quality of each one when placing them down

==Plant Values==

Does tilled ground have a value? Also, do the plants growing on tilled ground add to the value of a room, or would they even be considered part of it- like how barrels in a stockpile do not influence room value, because they're part of the stockpile, not the room? Mostly, I'm trying to figure out some way to grow (Build? I hope not) flower gardens to increase room values. For example, making a statue GARDEN. --Kydo 05:42, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

40d:Room

2010-03-04T02:45:40Z

Elfy: /* Room quality */

== What is a room? ==

The answer is not as obvious as it seems. A chamber with a [[bed]] in it is not yet a [[bedroom]]; you have to select the [[bed]] and ''define'' a bedroom from it. The functional room, as the game understands it, is not defined by [[wall]]s and [[door]]s; it is a [[zone]] extending out from a piece of [[furniture]] (in our example, the bed) that defines the room, created when the room is ''defined from'' that piece of furniture. Everything covered by that zone is considered part of the room, and will contribute to both the room's [[value]] and its effectiveness. This zone does '''not''' need to extend to the walls. It is well possible to define several such rooms in one actual enclosed space; they may even overlap, although this comes at a penalty to the room's value.

Rooms can also be assigned to specific [[dwarves]] (to satisfy a [[noble|noble's]] requirements, for instance). Unassigned bedrooms will be spontaneously claimed by individual dwarves not already possessing a bedroom. Married couples will share a bedroom (except for some nobles). Once the [[economy]] starts, dwarves will have to pay rent for their bedrooms.

== Creating rooms ==

To create a room, you must first have built something capable of supporting a room from the {{k|b}}uild menu, such as a [[table]] or [[bed]]. Then you must select the completed item in question with the {{k|q}} command and choose to create a room. The room's radius extends outward in a rectangle, but will stop when it hits walls or external [[door]]s. If you first build the door to create a closed space, then the game will define the room so you won't need to resize it unless it is very big.

If you want to have a door dividing a single, defined room into multiple areas without blocking the room's zone, you can set the door to "internal" in the door's {{k|q}} menu. Rooms do not have to be blocked off on all sides, and can even overlap, but for various reasons you will usually want to avoid overlapping rooms and give them proper boundaries.

In general, you only need to define a room from ''one'' object in the room. For instance, a communal [[dining room]] is defined from one table -- just give the room a large enough radius to cover the whole space.

Rooms can not span z-levels; when you define a room it can only be on a single level.

{{Buildings FAQ}}

== Types of rooms ==
=== Public rooms ===
* Archery Range, defined from an [[archery target]]. Used by the military.
* [[Barracks]], defined from a [[bed]], [[weapon rack]], or [[armor stand]]. ''Used by the [[military]] or by dwarves with no assigned [[bedroom]].''
* [[Jail]], defined from a [[restraint]] or metal [[cage]]. Used for dwarven [[justice]].
* [[Meeting hall]], defined from a [[well]] or [[table]].
* [[Sculpture garden]], defined from a [[statue]]. ''(Acts as a meeting hall)''
* [[Zoo]], defined from a [[cage]] or [[restraint]]. ''(Acts as a meeting hall)''

=== Private rooms ===
* [[Bedroom]], defined from a [[bed]].
* [[Dining room]], defined from a [[table]].
* [[Office|Study]]/[[Office]]/[[Office|Throne Room]], defined from a [[chair]] or [[throne]]
:''(These are actually the same thing, even though the game refers to them with different names).''
* [[Tomb]], defined from a [[coffin]].

== Room quality ==

Bedrooms, dining rooms, offices, and tombs will have different quality grades depending on their size, [[furniture|furnishings]] and other factors. Higher-quality room grades will produce happy [[thought]]s in [[dwarves]] utilizing these rooms. If a room contains items made from materials a [[dwarf]] favors, the room will have a higher perceived quality to that dwarf. You can also increase the grade of a room by [[smooth|smoothing]] and [[engrave|engraving]] the walls and the [[floor]].

Rooms can be viewed in the [[building list]] by hitting the {{k|r}} key.

=== Influences on room quality ===

* [[Furniture]] adds to the quality, by exactly the value of the furniture (exception are beds and doors), which itself depends on material [[Item value|value]] and object [[quality]], plus the value of any [[decoration]]s. Price adjustments by nobles do not affect this value. Note that [[statue]]s and [[window]]s affect accessibility of space same way walls do; unthoughtfully placed they can reduce room value rather than increase it.
* Doors add to room value only if they are set to internal '''and''' the room is (re-)sized afterwards, though the room still has to extend only as far as to the door, not beyond (40d).
* Floor and wall grids add to value. This is also affected by material and smoothing. See table below.
* Rooms enclosed in walls have more value than rooms of the same size in open space.
* Overlapping of rooms' space ''may'' negate effect of all value added by shared tiles and everything on them for either rooms. Details missing. Rooms can share walls and external doors just fine at no penalty.
* Any material, stone type or furniture that an assigned dwarf has a [[preference]] for will increase the perceived value of a room for that dwarf - other dwarfs will perceive the standard value.

=== Factors ===

==== The room ====
Taken from Draxxalon's study. ('''wrong/outdated''') Each tile touched by the room's designated area adds to its rental cost and quality (as per Room Grades below).

{|{|cellpadding="2"
! Type !! Rough Floor !! Smooth Floor !! Rough Wall !! Smooth Wall
|-
| Normal rock || 1 || 4 || 1 || 5
|-
| [[Flux]] || 2 || 14 || 2 || 18
|-
| [[Obsidian]] || 3 || 21 || 3 || 27
|}

* Smoothed and engraved ordinary stone has a base value of 10. This is multiplied by [[quality]] (x1 - x12) in the same way as objects. Note that walls are only detailed on one side (the side that the engraver is on).

* Example: a 3x3 Room
XXXXX
X...X
X...X
X....
XXXXX
As you need to knock out one bit of wall for the entrance, a 3x3 room has ten floor and 11 wall tiles (the corners are inaccessible and don't count). That makes a basic value of 22. When smoothed, it will score ((10 * 4) + (11 * 5)) = 95, assuming it's all plain stone.

As an alternative to engraving, floors can be [[construction|constructed]] out of valuable materials (such as [[gold]], [[steel]], [[platinum]], [[aluminum]], or megabeast [[soap]]) in order to increase room value significantly. Constructing a floor on top of an engraving will [[Engraving#Art defacement|destroy]] the engraving, making its creator unhappy and possibly making the builder a [[Justice|criminal]].

==== Furniture ====
All standard furniture ([[bed]]s, [[coffer]]s, [[weapon rack]]s, etc.) has a base [[value]] of 10. The base value is multiplied by the material value and the item's [[quality]]. For example, a *Marble Door* is worth 10 (door) * 2 ([[marble]]) * 4 (*superior quality*) = 80☼. A few pieces of high-quality furniture can increase a room's value quite a bit, and high-quality high-material-value furniture can add thousands to the value of the room.

* The floor space that the furniture is standing on still counts. Therefore, really valuable soap floors might be a good idea.
* Windows act as walls and statues and block the value of tile that they are built on. You can use the high value of a high-quality clear glass window as a separator of rooms to make both rooms very valuable.
* Statues (basic value 25) block the tile they're built on. They also cause any wall they're blocking to no longer contribute to room value.

==== Artifacts ====
If you are the lucky owner of [[artifact]] furniture, placing it in a nobles office or bedroom is the best thing you can do, as even a 'cheap' all-stone artifact will be worth at least 2400☼, boosting the room very close to '''grand'''. In practice artifacts frequently exceed 10,000☼ and can turn a single tile of dirt into a '''royal''' room.

=== Specific room quality grades ===

The grades of quality of rooms are as follows. These quality grades only apply to bedrooms, dining rooms, offices, and tombs.
{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="1" border="1" cellpadding="10"
! [[Bedroom]] !! [[Dining room]] !! [[Office]] !! [[Tomb]] !! Rent
|-
| Meager Quarters || Meager Dining Room ||Meager Office || Grave || 1 - 99
|-
| Modest Quarters || Modest Dining Room || Modest Office || Servant's Burial Chamber || 100 - 249
|-
| Quarters || Dining Room || Office || Burial Chamber || 250 - 499
|-
| Decent Quarters || Decent Dining Room || Decent Office || Tomb || 500 - 999
|-
| Fine Quarters || Fine Dining Room || Splendid Office || Fine Tomb || 1,000 - 1,499
|-
| Great Bedroom || Great Dining Room || Throne Room || Mausoleum || 1,500 - 2,499
|-
| Grand Bedroom || Grand Dining Room || Opulent Throne Room || Grand Mausoleum || 2,500 - 9,999
|-
| Royal* Bedroom || Royal* Dining Room || Royal* Throne Room || Royal* Mausoleum || 10,000+
|}
:''(* aka "Legendary")''

Examples:
* Modest Quarters:
** A 3x2 room with one or two ☼masterpieces☼ in it.
** A 3x2 room, smoothed wall and floors, +finely-crafted+ or *superior* quality furniture.
* Quarters:
** A 3x2, smooth walls, two or more excellent pieces of furniture.
** A 3x3 room single detailed everywhere (with no [[ore]] or [[gem]]s in the walls) with an ≡exceptional≡ door, bed, cabinet, coffer, weapon rack and armor stand (rent 395).
* Decent Quarters:
** A 3x3 room single detailed everywhere (with no ore or gems in the walls) with a ☼masterpiece☼ door, bed, cabinet, coffer, weapon rack, and armor stand (rent 815).
** A 5x5 room, double detailed floor, good quality furniture.
* Grand Bedroom:
** A 6x6 room with smoothed walls, engraved floors and three ≡exceptional≡ pieces of furniture.
** A 3x13 room with smoothed walls, engraved floors, six ≡exceptional≡ pieces of furniture and one ☼masterpiece☼.

=== Saving on nobles' rooms ===
You can make one large room, and install every noble there. The quality reduction for overlapping rooms is sufferable compared to the savings over constructing and furnishing a large number of rooms, particularly if you can add to the room's value with artifacts. If the [[king]] shows up, you must furnish this room to four times the "Royal" quality for it to count as Royal or just build a separate room for him.

This is a risky strategy as nobles get upset that their rooms are not '''better''' than those of lesser nobles. One solution is to designate the rooms of higher-ranked nobles as covering slightly different space, and adding high-value statues, mechanisms, or other objects within that area, not covered by the other nobles' "rooms" (as designated).

== Non-designated rooms ==
It can be useful to allocate space for certain purposes without using an explicit {{k|r}}oom designation from a piece of furniture.

=== Storage rooms ===
A '''storage room''' is a space set aside solely to hold items that are not being used (usually with a [[stockpile]]). Often this means [[trade good]]s waiting to be sold to a caravan, unused furniture, or obscure materials saved for [[strange mood]]s. Careful and timely placement of storage rooms can help to minimize [[clutter]] in your workshops, since newly made items will be stored instead of accumulating where they were created.

=== Vaults ===
A '''vault''' is a more secure version of a storage room (possibly using a [[stockpile]] of [[gem]]s and [[artifact]]s). To keep thieves out, the [[door]] or [[bridge]] at a vault entrance may be linked to a [[lever]]. However, it is rare for a thief to reach a vault without bumping into a dwarf or animal—a watch-animal [[Restrain#Restraints|restrain]]ed in a narrow hall is usually quite effective at spotting thieves. Vaults may be booby-trapped, but [[thieves]] do not trigger mechanics' [[trap]]s or [[pressure plate]]s, so this is purely for aesthetic purposes.

=== Hospitals ===
A '''hospital''' contains constructed, unassigned [[bed]]s and has convenient access to sources of [[food]] and [[water]]. When a dwarf is injured, the hospital provides a place in which to [[heal]] (but note that an injured dwarf may claim any unassigned bed, not just one in a hospital). A dwarf resting for a long time in an underground hospital may develop [[cave adaptation]].

=== Courtyards ===
A '''courtyard''' is a secure above-ground area, where your dwarfs are safe from [[invader]]s and most [[creature]]s. Can incorporate [[stockpile]]s, a [[Trade Depot]], a [[statue garden]], or more.

[[Category:Rooms]]

40d:Experience

2010-02-27T19:58:11Z

Elfy: /* Gaining experience */ More on XP for marksdwarf

'''Experience''' represents how much a certain [[dwarf]] (or other [[humanoid|intelligent creature]]) has learned (about a certain subject, or as a whole). It affects proficiency in [[skills]] and a dwarf's [[attributes]]. Precise points in experience are never displayed directly, except in [[Adventure Mode]].

Every experience point earned is associated with a skill. Skill increases happen when a certain number of points in that skill is reached. Attribute increases happen when a certain total number of points is reached.

The [[announcement]] "''<Dwarfname>'' is more experienced" signifies an [[attribute]] increase. Skill increases are not announced unless the increase changes a dwarf's [[profession]], when the announcement will be to the effect of "''<Dwarfname>'' has become a ''<new profession>''".

__TOC__

== Increasing skills ==

If a dwarf has zero experience in a skill, they will have no skill listed (but can still use that skill at an untrained level if a [[labor]] associated with the skill is designated, and will gain experience from completing such tasks).

As soon as a dwarf gets even 1 point of experience in a skill from completing just one [[job]], they attain '''Dabbling''' rank in that skill. This can be important for [[strange mood]]s.

To reach '''Novice''' level in any skill requires 500 XP. Reaching each successive level requires 500 plus an additional 100 XP per additional rank, so to go from '''Novice''' to '''''(no label)''''' requires 600 XP; '''''(no label)''''' to '''Competent''' requires 700 XP, and so on. The following figures are the ''cumulative'' XP needed to go from unskilled to any given skill level.

As dwarfs gain more experience from completing jobs, they gain more experience in the skill related to those jobs:

{| style="margin: 0 auto; border: 1px solid black; border-spacing: 0"
|-
| width="25%" style="border-right: 1px solid black;" |
{| width="100%"
! Level !! XP
|-
| '''Novice''' || align="right" | 500
|-
| ''(no label)'' || align="right" | 1100
|-
| '''Competent''' || align="right" | 1800
|-
| '''Skilled''' || align="right" | 2600
|-
| '''Proficient''' * || align="right" | 3500
|}
| width="25%" style="border-right: 1px solid black;" |
{| width="100%"
! Level !! XP
|-
|
|-
| '''Talented''' || align="right" | 4500
|-
| '''Adept ''' || align="right" | 5600
|-
| '''Expert ''' || align="right" | 6800
|-
| '''Professional''' || align="right" | 8100
|-
| '''Accomplished''' || align="right" | 9500
|}
| width="25%" style="border-right: 1px solid black;" |
{| width="100%"
! Level !! XP
|-
|
|-
| '''Great ''' || align="right" | 11000
|-
| '''Master ''' || align="right" | 12600
|-
| '''High Master''' || align="right" | 14300
|-
| '''Grand Master''' || align="right" | 16100
|-
| '''Legendary ''' || align="right" | 18000
|}
| width="25%" style="border-right: 1px solid black;" |
{| width="100%"
! Level !! XP
|-
|
|-
| '''Legendary'''(+1) || align="right" | 20000
|-
| '''Legendary'''(+2) || align="right" | 22100
|-
| '''Legendary'''(+3) || align="right" | 24300
|-
| '''Legendary'''(+4) || align="right" | 26600
|-
| '''Legendary'''(+5) || align="right" | 29000
|}
|}

::::::''(* "Proficient" is the highest rank that one of your initial seven dwarves can start with. [[Migrant]]s will arrive with no skills, Novice, or (no label) levels.)''

Although '''[[Legendary]]''' is the highest skill level displayed, there are actually five skill levels above that. Any higher skill levels are known to have an effect on [[item quality]]; a Legendary dwarf will make [[masterpiece]] items 15% of the time, on average, whereas a Legendary+5 dwarf will make masterpieces 27% of the time (and exceptional items the other 73% of the time). Skill beyond Legendary+5 does not increase the probability of creating a masterpiece item.

You can't find out exactly when a dwarf gets to Legendary+5, but if they have no other skills it will happen 1000 XP before their eighth [[attribute]] -- so when they get eight attributes, they are past Legendary+5. Although skill is capped at Legendary+5, experience is not capped at any level; a dwarf can keep gaining [[attribute]]s by using a skill that has long since topped out.

== Increasing attributes ==

[[Attribute]] increases are based on total experience gained across all skills, and are not connected to the attainment of specific skill levels.

Dwarves with a single skill will get their first attribute between Competent and Skilled, their second when reaching Talented, a third between Expert and Professional, a fourth when reaching Great, and a fifth between High Master and Grand Master. Further increases can happen after Legendary.

[[Toady]] has stated that although there is no cap on attribute increases, after the fifth increase they are still displayed as 'Ultra-Mighty' 'Perfectly Agile' or 'Superdwarvenly Tough', so an attribute gain message without a change in displayed attributes is possible.

{| style="margin: 0 auto; border: 1px solid black; border-spacing: 0; text-align: right"
|-
| width="50%" style="border-right: 1px solid black" |
{| width="100%"
! Attributes !! style="padding-left: 35px;"| XP
|-
! 1
| 2000
|-
! 2
| 4500
|-
! 3
| 7500
|-
! 4
| 11000
|-
! 5
| 15000
|-
! 6
| 19500
|-
! 7
| 24500
|-
! 8
| 30000
|}
| width="50%" valign="top" |
{| width="100%"
! Attributes !! style="padding-left: 35px;"| XP
|-
! 9
| 36000
|-
! 10
| 42500
|-
! 11
| 49500
|-
! 12
| 57000
|-
! 13
| 65000
|-
! 14
| 73500
|-
! 15
| 82500
|-
! 16
| 92000
|}
|}

== Gaining experience ==

Dwarves gain experience by performing tasks. Experience is gained when the task is ''completed''; if a task takes a long time and is frequently interrupted (by the dwarf going off to drink, for instance), the dwarf will gain the skill very slowly. Tasks without an associated skill (such as [[hauling]]) do not give any experience.

Constructing [[building]]s or [[construction]]s does not give experience unless the building requires [[architecture]] to build. Such buildings give 30 points of experience in [[building designer]] to the architect and a varying amount of experience to whichever dwarf finishes the building once it is designed, given gradually as the structure is built. The additional experience depends on what material is used to build the building: a building made of [[stone]], stone [[block]]s, or [[glass]] blocks gives [[masonry]] experience; a building made of [[log]]s or wood blocks gives [[carpentry]] experience; a building made of [[metal]] bars or blocks gives [[blacksmithing]] experience; and [[soap]] bars appear to give no experience to any skill.

Destroying buildings and constructions of any type gives no experience.

{| style="margin: 0 auto"
|+ style="margin: 0 auto" |'''Known Experience Values'''
| style="vertical-align: top" |
{| style="border-left: 1px solid black; border-right: 1px solid black; border-spacing: 0 1px; background: black"
|- style="background: #fff"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | '''Skill''' || '''Task''' || '''XP'''
|- style="background: #bbb"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Miner]] || any digging ([[soil]] ''or'' [[stone]]) || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 10 / tile
|- style="background: #bbb"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Miner]] || Remove ramp (natural) || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 10
|- style="background: #bbb"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Miner]] || Fight "unarmed" w/ [[pick]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | variable (low)
|- style="background: #ff6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Bowyer]] || Make wooden [[crossbow]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #ff6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Carpenter]] || Construct [[bed]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #ff6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Wood Cutter]] || Fell [[tree]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #fff"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Engraver]] || [[Smooth]] or detail a [[floor]] or [[wall]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 10
|- style="background: #fff"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Mason]] || Construct rock object || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #6b6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Trapper]] || Construct [[animal trap]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #6b6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Trapper]] || Bait [[animal trap]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #888"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Armorsmith]] || Make [[armor]] (any type) || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #888"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Metalsmith]] || Make metal [[Block]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #88f"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Stonecrafter]] || Make stone [[crafts]], [[mug]]s, etc. || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #88f"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Weaver]] || Gather [[silk]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #88f"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Weaver]] || Weave any [[cloth]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #88f"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Wood crafter]] || Make wooden [[bolt]]s || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #88f"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Glassmaker]] || Construct [[block]]s,[[window]]s || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|}
| style="vertical-align: top" |
{| style="border-left: 1px solid black; border-right: 1px solid black; border-spacing: 0 1px; background: black"
|- style="background: #fff"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | '''Skill''' || '''Task''' || '''XP'''
|- style="background: #d00"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Mechanic]] || Link a building to trigger || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #d00"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Siege engineer]] || Construct catapult/ballista parts || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #d00"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Siege engineer]] || Assemble ballista arrow || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #d00"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Siege operator]] || Load [[catapult]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #d00"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Siege operator]] || Fire [[catapult]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #bb6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Brewer]] || Brew [[alcohol|drink]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #bb6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Butcher]] || Slaughter [[animal]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #bb6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Cook]] || Cook easy/fine/lavish [[kitchen#Prepared meals|meal]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #bb6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Grower]] || Harvest [[plants]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #bb6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Grower]] || Plant [[seeds]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #bb6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Herbalist]] || Gather [[plants]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #a6a"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Building designer|Building designer]] || Construct [[building]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #a6a"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Organizer]] || Manage Work Order (per task) || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 10
|- style="background: #6bb"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Strand extractor]] || Extract [[adamantine]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #6b6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Marksdwarf]] || Shoot at archery range || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | ≈7.54
|- style="background: #6b6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Marksdwarf]] || Shoot at live target || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 305
|- style="background: #288"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Appraisal]] || View Goods for trade1 || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | ≈7.5 / item1
|- style="background: #288"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | "[[Broker]]"2 || Successful [[trade]]3 || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | ≈7.53
|}
|}

:'''Notes:'''
::1) ''The first time the {{k|t}}rade button is used at a Depot for any single caravan, the dwarf who responded to do the trading immediately gains this amount, ≈7.5 experience x the number of items. No further experience can be gained in Appraisal for this caravan for this dwarf or any other, but another dwarf can replace them as [[broker]], respond to the call for a "Trader requested at depot", and use their ''existing'' skill to see the value of goods and make trades.''
::2) ''In this context, "Broker" skills include [[Persuader]], [[Negotiator]], [[Judge of Intent]], [[Intimidator]], [[Liar]], [[Conversationalist]], [[Comedian]], and [[Flatterer]]. Which particular skills are used will depend on the [[personality]] of the dwarf in question.''
::3) ''There seem to be a lot of variables in a "successful trade", and different skills seem to increase more or less depending on the exact combination of factors. More research is needed, but over trading sessions this average seems to hold true.''
::4) ''A dwarf gains 30XP after some shots in training session and 0XP after others, actual average for single session may vary '''at least''' from as low as 4XP/shot to as much as 14XP/shot.''
::5) ''XP gain happens after every shot, it doesn't matter if it was a hit or miss.''

:* A dwarf taken by any [[strange mood]] (except a [[Mood#Possessed|possession]]) will gain 20,000 experience in the affected skill upon completion of the artifact.

[[Category:Dwarves]]

40d:Experience

2010-02-27T06:00:45Z

Elfy: /* Gaining experience */ Marksdwarf gains 30 XP on hit when shooting live target

'''Experience''' represents how much a certain [[dwarf]] (or other [[humanoid|intelligent creature]]) has learned (about a certain subject, or as a whole). It affects proficiency in [[skills]] and a dwarf's [[attributes]]. Precise points in experience are never displayed directly, except in [[Adventure Mode]].

Every experience point earned is associated with a skill. Skill increases happen when a certain number of points in that skill is reached. Attribute increases happen when a certain total number of points is reached.

The [[announcement]] "''<Dwarfname>'' is more experienced" signifies an [[attribute]] increase. Skill increases are not announced unless the increase changes a dwarf's [[profession]], when the announcement will be to the effect of "''<Dwarfname>'' has become a ''<new profession>''".

__TOC__

== Increasing skills ==

If a dwarf has zero experience in a skill, they will have no skill listed (but can still use that skill at an untrained level if a [[labor]] associated with the skill is designated, and will gain experience from completing such tasks).

As soon as a dwarf gets even 1 point of experience in a skill from completing just one [[job]], they attain '''Dabbling''' rank in that skill. This can be important for [[strange mood]]s.

To reach '''Novice''' level in any skill requires 500 XP. Reaching each successive level requires 500 plus an additional 100 XP per additional rank, so to go from '''Novice''' to '''''(no label)''''' requires 600 XP; '''''(no label)''''' to '''Competent''' requires 700 XP, and so on. The following figures are the ''cumulative'' XP needed to go from unskilled to any given skill level.

As dwarfs gain more experience from completing jobs, they gain more experience in the skill related to those jobs:

{| style="margin: 0 auto; border: 1px solid black; border-spacing: 0"
|-
| width="25%" style="border-right: 1px solid black;" |
{| width="100%"
! Level !! XP
|-
| '''Novice''' || align="right" | 500
|-
| ''(no label)'' || align="right" | 1100
|-
| '''Competent''' || align="right" | 1800
|-
| '''Skilled''' || align="right" | 2600
|-
| '''Proficient''' * || align="right" | 3500
|}
| width="25%" style="border-right: 1px solid black;" |
{| width="100%"
! Level !! XP
|-
|
|-
| '''Talented''' || align="right" | 4500
|-
| '''Adept ''' || align="right" | 5600
|-
| '''Expert ''' || align="right" | 6800
|-
| '''Professional''' || align="right" | 8100
|-
| '''Accomplished''' || align="right" | 9500
|}
| width="25%" style="border-right: 1px solid black;" |
{| width="100%"
! Level !! XP
|-
|
|-
| '''Great ''' || align="right" | 11000
|-
| '''Master ''' || align="right" | 12600
|-
| '''High Master''' || align="right" | 14300
|-
| '''Grand Master''' || align="right" | 16100
|-
| '''Legendary ''' || align="right" | 18000
|}
| width="25%" style="border-right: 1px solid black;" |
{| width="100%"
! Level !! XP
|-
|
|-
| '''Legendary'''(+1) || align="right" | 20000
|-
| '''Legendary'''(+2) || align="right" | 22100
|-
| '''Legendary'''(+3) || align="right" | 24300
|-
| '''Legendary'''(+4) || align="right" | 26600
|-
| '''Legendary'''(+5) || align="right" | 29000
|}
|}

::::::''(* "Proficient" is the highest rank that one of your initial seven dwarves can start with. [[Migrant]]s will arrive with no skills, Novice, or (no label) levels.)''

Although '''[[Legendary]]''' is the highest skill level displayed, there are actually five skill levels above that. Any higher skill levels are known to have an effect on [[item quality]]; a Legendary dwarf will make [[masterpiece]] items 15% of the time, on average, whereas a Legendary+5 dwarf will make masterpieces 27% of the time (and exceptional items the other 73% of the time). Skill beyond Legendary+5 does not increase the probability of creating a masterpiece item.

You can't find out exactly when a dwarf gets to Legendary+5, but if they have no other skills it will happen 1000 XP before their eighth [[attribute]] -- so when they get eight attributes, they are past Legendary+5. Although skill is capped at Legendary+5, experience is not capped at any level; a dwarf can keep gaining [[attribute]]s by using a skill that has long since topped out.

== Increasing attributes ==

[[Attribute]] increases are based on total experience gained across all skills, and are not connected to the attainment of specific skill levels.

Dwarves with a single skill will get their first attribute between Competent and Skilled, their second when reaching Talented, a third between Expert and Professional, a fourth when reaching Great, and a fifth between High Master and Grand Master. Further increases can happen after Legendary.

[[Toady]] has stated that although there is no cap on attribute increases, after the fifth increase they are still displayed as 'Ultra-Mighty' 'Perfectly Agile' or 'Superdwarvenly Tough', so an attribute gain message without a change in displayed attributes is possible.

{| style="margin: 0 auto; border: 1px solid black; border-spacing: 0; text-align: right"
|-
| width="50%" style="border-right: 1px solid black" |
{| width="100%"
! Attributes !! style="padding-left: 35px;"| XP
|-
! 1
| 2000
|-
! 2
| 4500
|-
! 3
| 7500
|-
! 4
| 11000
|-
! 5
| 15000
|-
! 6
| 19500
|-
! 7
| 24500
|-
! 8
| 30000
|}
| width="50%" valign="top" |
{| width="100%"
! Attributes !! style="padding-left: 35px;"| XP
|-
! 9
| 36000
|-
! 10
| 42500
|-
! 11
| 49500
|-
! 12
| 57000
|-
! 13
| 65000
|-
! 14
| 73500
|-
! 15
| 82500
|-
! 16
| 92000
|}
|}

== Gaining experience ==

Dwarves gain experience by performing tasks. Experience is gained when the task is ''completed''; if a task takes a long time and is frequently interrupted (by the dwarf going off to drink, for instance), the dwarf will gain the skill very slowly. Tasks without an associated skill (such as [[hauling]]) do not give any experience.

Constructing [[building]]s or [[construction]]s does not give experience unless the building requires [[architecture]] to build. Such buildings give 30 points of experience in [[building designer]] to the architect and a varying amount of experience to whichever dwarf finishes the building once it is designed, given gradually as the structure is built. The additional experience depends on what material is used to build the building: a building made of [[stone]], stone [[block]]s, or [[glass]] blocks gives [[masonry]] experience; a building made of [[log]]s or wood blocks gives [[carpentry]] experience; a building made of [[metal]] bars or blocks gives [[blacksmithing]] experience; and [[soap]] bars appear to give no experience to any skill.

Destroying buildings and constructions of any type gives no experience.

{| style="margin: 0 auto"
|+ style="margin: 0 auto" |'''Known Experience Values'''
| style="vertical-align: top" |
{| style="border-left: 1px solid black; border-right: 1px solid black; border-spacing: 0 1px; background: black"
|- style="background: #fff"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | '''Skill''' || '''Task''' || '''XP'''
|- style="background: #bbb"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Miner]] || any digging ([[soil]] ''or'' [[stone]]) || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 10 / tile
|- style="background: #bbb"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Miner]] || Remove ramp (natural) || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 10
|- style="background: #bbb"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Miner]] || Fight "unarmed" w/ [[pick]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | variable (low)
|- style="background: #ff6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Bowyer]] || Make wooden [[crossbow]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #ff6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Carpenter]] || Construct [[bed]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #ff6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Wood Cutter]] || Fell [[tree]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #fff"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Engraver]] || [[Smooth]] or detail a [[floor]] or [[wall]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 10
|- style="background: #fff"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Mason]] || Construct rock object || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #6b6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Trapper]] || Construct [[animal trap]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #6b6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Trapper]] || Bait [[animal trap]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #888"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Armorsmith]] || Make [[armor]] (any type) || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #888"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Metalsmith]] || Make metal [[Block]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #88f"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Stonecrafter]] || Make stone [[crafts]], [[mug]]s, etc. || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #88f"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Weaver]] || Gather [[silk]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #88f"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Weaver]] || Weave any [[cloth]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #88f"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Wood crafter]] || Make wooden [[bolt]]s || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #88f"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Glassmaker]] || Construct [[block]]s,[[window]]s || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|}
| style="vertical-align: top" |
{| style="border-left: 1px solid black; border-right: 1px solid black; border-spacing: 0 1px; background: black"
|- style="background: #fff"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | '''Skill''' || '''Task''' || '''XP'''
|- style="background: #d00"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Mechanic]] || Link a building to trigger || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #d00"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Siege engineer]] || Construct catapult/ballista parts || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #d00"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Siege engineer]] || Assemble ballista arrow || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #d00"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Siege operator]] || Load [[catapult]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #d00"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Siege operator]] || Fire [[catapult]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #bb6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Brewer]] || Brew [[alcohol|drink]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #bb6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Butcher]] || Slaughter [[animal]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #bb6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Cook]] || Cook easy/fine/lavish [[kitchen#Prepared meals|meal]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #bb6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Grower]] || Harvest [[plants]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #bb6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Grower]] || Plant [[seeds]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #bb6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Herbalist]] || Gather [[plants]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #a6a"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Building designer|Building designer]] || Construct [[building]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #a6a"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Organizer]] || Manage Work Order (per task) || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 10
|- style="background: #6bb"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Strand extractor]] || Extract [[adamantine]] || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #6b6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Marksdwarf]] || Shoot at archery range || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | ≈7.5
|- style="background: #6b6"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Marksdwarf]] || Shoot at live target || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | 30
|- style="background: #288"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | [[Appraisal]] || View Goods for trade1 || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | ≈7.5 / item1
|- style="background: #288"
| style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | "[[Broker]]"2 || Successful [[trade]]3 || align="right" style="padding: 0.2em 0.4em" | ≈7.53
|}
|}

:'''Notes:'''
::1) ''The first time the {{k|t}}rade button is used at a Depot for any single caravan, the dwarf who responded to do the trading immediately gains this amount, ≈7.5 experience x the number of items. No further experience can be gained in Appraisal for this caravan for this dwarf or any other, but another dwarf can replace them as [[broker]], respond to the call for a "Trader requested at depot", and use their ''existing'' skill to see the value of goods and make trades.''
::2) ''In this context, "Broker" skills include [[Persuader]], [[Negotiator]], [[Judge of Intent]], [[Intimidator]], [[Liar]], [[Conversationalist]], [[Comedian]], and [[Flatterer]]. Which particular skills are used will depend on the [[personality]] of the dwarf in question.''
::3) ''There seem to be a lot of variables in a "successful trade", and different skills seem to increase more or less depending on the exact combination of factors. More research is needed, but over trading sessions this average seems to hold true.''

:* A dwarf taken by any [[strange mood]] (except a [[Mood#Possessed|possession]]) will gain 20,000 experience in the affected skill upon completion of the artifact.

[[Category:Dwarves]]