Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.31 Talk:Meat industry

2010-11-01T03:26:24Z

FleshForge: /* Milking */

As far as I can tell, there haven't been dramatic changes for the meat industry, save these:

-slaughtering animals produces loads more 'results' thanks in part to the new tissue system; prepared kidneys, brains etc. And the as of now useless cartilage.

-killing animals through your military has become slightly easier, once you've managed to equip and train your dwarfs, by designating animals to kill for your squads with your cursor, an area designation or from a list.

-On the embark screen, you can select how many female and male creatures you want instead of being stuck with 50%.

Minor changes:
Producing soap from tallow has to be done through the manager (u->m->q->'soap').
And: elven traders bring much more exotic pets now, though I haven't got them to breed yet. Elven caravans are bugged anyway (as in: they bring way too much stuff sometimes), so that will probably be fixed.

So far leatherworing, slaughtering animals, cage traps and breeding work the same. I suspect Pens and hunting do too.--[[User:Egregius|Egregius]] 19:08, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Started the article by copying and editing the old one. I haven't done hunting yet, so someone needs to check that. Also the article could use some editing methinks.--[[User:Egregius|Egregius]] 01:43, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Opinion: Fat and tallow are now worthless except for making soap and training cooking skill. This is because fat is now converted to tallow one unit at a time, and the tallow doesn't restack. Soap is very important for healthcare, but you probably will need less than 20 bars over the entire lifespan of your fortress. Training cooking is currently undesirable due to the masterwork meal bug reoccurring. When I butcher a horse, I end up nearly drowning in meat products. I have no need to process, ''process'', '''''process''''' the fat in order to get yet more single-item foodstuffs that won't lead to large stacks of cooked meals. Worthless globs. —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 01:35, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
:Rendered fat does get stacked into barrels and is used in cooking, and barrels of prepared meals are a pretty great trade item, I don't really see what the issue here is?[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 19:14, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
:Well at least in 30.12 it does. [[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 10:46, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

=Breeding pairs=
Worth noting that you don't actually need a pair of tame animals for a tamed female to reproduce - just one female will eventually have children if males of the same species are anywhere else on the map. Apparently DF critters reproduce by spores! [[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 16:24, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

==Corpse distance==
Does anyone need the exact maximum distance allowed for butchering a dead animal? A dragon corpse lying more than 100 tiles away seemed to have been too far. Dragging it to a gargabe dump just 7 tiles away and then un-forbidding worked fine however. [[User:Kap|Kap]] 16:32, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
:It may be the distance. But it may have something to do with being dragged or being forbidden-unforbidden.--[[User:Another|Another]] 21:07, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
::I've found that butchering only triggers once the corpse is in a Refuse stockpile (or was placed directly in the butcher's workshop by a Hunter). Tanning doesn't seem to have this requirement - tanners will take the skins right out of the butcher's shop as long as your refuse stockpile doesn't accept raw hides. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:13, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

== Milking ==

Exceptional article. But shouldn't this include milking? [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 02:41, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

= Getting livestock to behave like livestock =
Worth noting that placing a restraint (rope or chain) and making it a room will make un-bonded animals congregate around it, rather than milling around and pooping up your well room or dining hall. Some will still hang around in the meeting halls, but not ALL of them at least. [[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 03:26, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Screw pump

2010-08-29T01:10:28Z

FleshForge:

Note: Pumps will transfer power vertically as they did in 40d. It is confirmed they function in all respects as they did in the previous version. For information on vertical power transfer see Pump Stack in the article.
:Moved this to here from the article. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 22:00, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

About the service area in the picture. You can use a door at the impassible part of the screw pump instead of using two doors. The dwarves can dig and move diagonally. --[[User:Altaree|Altaree]] 15:38, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

<blockquote>
it can be ... operated by ... using gear assemblies connected to water wheels and/or windmills.
</blockquote>
A gear assembly is not necessary. It is possible to build a water wheel, connected to a horizontal axle, connected to a screw pump. The screw pump will function as intended.

== Pump Speed ==

How much water do screw pumps move? Is it 1/7 of water per game frame? If you wanted to build a 1x1 waterfall that operated constantly without sourcing any new water, how many pump stacks would you need?

:A lot. I don't know. Less than one, so to speak ;) In any case, channel the water through a diagonal after the pump --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.29.45|92.202.29.45]] 17:16, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

:I believe they move 7/7 per step. Make sure your drainage is good :) [[Special:Contributions/66.30.8.88|66.30.8.88]] 21:27, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

== Magma-Safe Pump ==

How is it possible to make a magma-safe pump (or rather, one which does not degrade into its component parts), since pipe sections and corkscrews can (apparently) only be made of wood? [[User:Rodya mirov|Rodya mirov]]
* Nevermind, pipe sections and corkscrews can be made of metal, just not rock. Leaving this here in case anyone else has a similar concern. [[User:Rodya mirov|Rodya mirov]]

The entry implies that you can pump magma with a pump containing some wooden parts. This is very misleading because while you can fill an area on the other side of it with some magma, the pump pretty much instantly catches on fire, and within a couple minutes will fall apart.--[[User:Krenn|Krenn]] 06:40, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

== Desalinating water ==

Can someone add an idiot-proof explanation for how pumps desalinate water? I can't get it to work.

Here's my setup:

(saltwater lake) 
% 
╔═0%0 
║+++║ 
║+++║ 
║▲++║ 
╚═══╝ 
▲

Pump pumping north to south from the lake, ramps put in for access while constructing, floor built under first tile of the pump. When I order the pump to be started, the reservoir gets filled. I stopped the pumping before the reservoir overfilled, then designated the level above as a zone. Water source does not highlight, and designating it doesn't work.

Initially I did the above but had not built a floor tile under the exit end of the pump, which did not work. I removed the pump, put in the floor, waited for all the water to evaporate and tried again - no dice. Does that mean mud will contaminate the water and make it salty?
:See [[Salt_water]] - you have to pump the salt water into a completely constructed cistern. The water inside the cistern will be desalinated.

== Pumping FPS ==

I have built about 110 pumps in a stack to get magma to the surface. After I have turned them on, the FPS dropped to <1 (with typical FPS about ~60) until all stack containments filled up to the 7/7. [[User:WFrag|WFrag]] 06:24, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

== They only stack one way if you dig correctly ==
Worth noting that due to the way the power is transmitted from one pump to the next, if you have any problems of this nature it's because the inlet hole and power transmition holes are not dug correctly -- one level is '1010' and the next level is '0101', repeated as many times as is necessary. If you dig the holes correctly, then the pumps will only allow you to build them one way -- the way that will work. This confused me for a good while! [[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 01:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Fortification

2010-08-25T21:29:07Z

FleshForge: added topic titles and a note about visibility

=Exploration Tip=
Carving a fortifaction is a good was to savely explore underground caverns. If you know where the caverns are, maybe accidental digging into it and then sealing it again, then you can mine to a wall of the cavern (don't remove it) and then smoothing and carving a fortifaction. Voilá, savely exploring caverns. --[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 10:55, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

=Projectiles=
Does anyone have an idea about how far up or down projectiles can be fired from behind fortifications? I like to build them one level about the front of my fortress, and wanted to know if that is useful at all.
--[[User:Krillin6|Krillin6]] 21:45, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:it is useful; in the old version(40d), i was told to build my fortifications 2-3 Z-levels up from ground level to stop goblin archers firing back through the fortifications from on the ground. as none of my archers died, it must have worked? IIRC, the goblin archers didnt even attempt to fire at my marksdwarves, which says they couldnt have hit them to me. but due to the bugs in v0.31, i've not quite managed to get crossbowmen into my military, so should have more information soon (starting a new fort with 0.31.08). also, i think i heard that the range of a crossbow bolt is about 20 spaces? and i think going down through a Z-level does count as 1 (although dont quote me on that..). so, if your fortifications are 2 Z-levels up, your marksdwarves will have a range of 17/18. hope that helped ^-^--[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 16:36, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone know if things like fire breath count as projectiles that can pass through fortifications?

=Security=
I carved a fortification into one of the walls of the magma sea, and the magma flowed through fine, but CREATURES could also move through it. The fortification is obviously made of fire-safe materials, and if I (k) it, it shows that it is still there.
:I've also had a creature (a forgotten beast) get through a fortification ((b)-(C)-(F)). "Fun" ensued when I tried to get it out of my water system. --[[Special:Contributions/81.226.38.190|81.226.38.190]] 14:18, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:Goblins can "swim" through fortification if water level on it nonzero (or, may be, maximal). I have fun then try to drown many goblins in room where was door in fortress behind fortification. [[Special:Contributions/62.76.7.25|62.76.7.25]] 04:05, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
:I understand from the forums that fire snakes are vermin, and ignore walls. [[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 21:29, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

=Visibility=
It seems that fortifications block visibility of some things outside them - while archers may be able to target and shoot through them, if there is a waterfall on the other side of a fortification e.g., dwarves won't see it any more. [[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 21:29, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Meat industry

2010-08-19T10:46:56Z

FleshForge:

v0.31 Talk:Meat industry

2010-08-18T19:14:29Z

FleshForge:

v0.31 Talk:Meat industry

2010-08-18T16:24:52Z

FleshForge:

v0.31 Talk:Chert

2010-08-16T17:57:10Z

FleshForge: /* Flux availability */

==Flux availability==
Worth noting that while chert does have gobs of coal and especially iron, it is not a given that you'll have [[flux]] stone on the map. Marble can be found with it in the same biome but is not terribly frequent, you might also look at biome intersections where flux can be had. [[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 17:43, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Chert

2010-08-16T17:43:39Z

FleshForge: Created page with '==Flux availability== Worth noting that while chert does have gobs of coal and especially iron, it is not a given that you'll have flux stone on the map. Marble can be found wit…'

==Flux availability==
Worth noting that while chert does have gobs of coal and especially iron, it is not a given that you'll have flux stone on the map. Marble can be found with it in the same biome but is not terribly frequent, you might also look at biome intersections where flux can be had. [[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 17:43, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Volcano

2010-08-14T07:03:41Z

FleshForge: /* Rock layers */

__TOC__

==Differences from 40d==
I'd just like to note some differences between 40d volcanos and the new ones. From what I've seen, they have fixed designs as opposed to random shifting patterns as you go down the z axis and act more like pipes that were lucky enough to reach the surface during worldgen. The last one I embarked on actually protruded out of the ground for 4 z axis' sort of like a chimney
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h133/Radicalaces/chimney.png?t=1273214099
--[[User:radical|radical]] 07:12, 7 May 2010 (EST)

==Rock layers==
I'm not sure if this is within the scope of the article, but something I've noted after a -large- amount of volcano-hunting is that the only way to get sedimentary rock on an embark tile with a volcano is for there to also be a brook in the area. Probably needs some independent confirmation, but after probably 200-250 medium maps checked, I'm pretty confident in my analysis. [[Special:Contributions/24.35.61.81|24.35.61.81]] 00:59, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
:Which, y'know, kinda makes sense based on the geological processes behind volcanoes and sedimentary rocks. That is, volcanoes form igneous rock around them, bringing the temperature and pressure up on the surrounding rock and converting it to metamorphic. So the presence of a brook would indicate that the volcano is dormant enough for water flows to create channels in the area, and also dormant enough that sedimentary rock (and not just plain sediment, or soil) could form and continue to exist. Just to be clear: when you say "on an embark tile with a volcano", you ARE talking about a 1x1 region on the Local map of the Embark screen? And not the 4x4 region which is the usual embark site? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:03, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
::Aside from that, in my pseudo smartguy terms, volcanoes are upwellings of "new" rock, and are as geologically different from ancient coal-bearing rock (coal is a '''fossil fuel''' y'know) as you can possibly have on the same planet. Although in the current version, if the embark screen does not list sedimentary rock as one of the layers for the selected biome, you aren't going to find it anywhere in the map no matter how large it is. I get the impression this is more a game mechanic thing to balance the relative advantages of playing in a volcano area (huge amounts of high value ores and obsidian, easy access to magma with low/no risk).[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 01:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
::By the way a pretty simple way to force a lot of volcanoes for your map is just to set "Minimum Volcanoes" option in the world gen parameters to 100 or so, on a medium map this takes little time to roll up and can be previewed before going through the history iterations - hit a key and scroll around the map and see if it looks promising, and abort if it doesn't, continue if it does. --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 01:45, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

It appears to be simply simple impossible to get coal on a volcano map regardless of what rock layers are shown on the embark screen. On the other hand, you can make charcoal from burning wood, so the easy access to magma is still a pretty great advantage and you can still make steel eventually.[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 07:00, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
:Hah what do you know, the current map I'm looking at JUST MADE A LIAR OUT OF ME! So yes, as long as the set of biomes overlapping with the volcano area can contain coal, then there can be coal on the volcano map - however the coal will only be in the part of the map that is actually in the sedimentary-containing biome![[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 07:03, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

== Volcano - magma sea connection and exploration ==

After some playing and a bit of my habit from 40d days, when plugging up a volcano with water, i found out that crashing tiles dropping down into it will go down to the magma sea and act as "explorers" to uncover tiles. i'm unsure whether its an isolated case or a common occurence, so if anyone could confirm, i'd be grateful - [[User:Vrga|Vrga]] 06:45, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

== Volcano and undeground lakes ==

I embarked at volcano area at freezing biome, and got problem with absence of water. The only underground lake was found at the far edge of second cavern - first was completely dry. Is it volcano influence or just random? On maps without volcano each cavern had it's lake, sometimes several of them.[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 06:39, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:As far as I can tell, this is completely random - in some volcano maps I've found huge lakes 10 levels below sea level, and in some more like 100 z-levels down.[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 06:59, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Volcano

2010-08-14T07:00:07Z

FleshForge: /* Rock layers */

__TOC__

==Differences from 40d==
I'd just like to note some differences between 40d volcanos and the new ones. From what I've seen, they have fixed designs as opposed to random shifting patterns as you go down the z axis and act more like pipes that were lucky enough to reach the surface during worldgen. The last one I embarked on actually protruded out of the ground for 4 z axis' sort of like a chimney
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h133/Radicalaces/chimney.png?t=1273214099
--[[User:radical|radical]] 07:12, 7 May 2010 (EST)

==Rock layers==
I'm not sure if this is within the scope of the article, but something I've noted after a -large- amount of volcano-hunting is that the only way to get sedimentary rock on an embark tile with a volcano is for there to also be a brook in the area. Probably needs some independent confirmation, but after probably 200-250 medium maps checked, I'm pretty confident in my analysis. [[Special:Contributions/24.35.61.81|24.35.61.81]] 00:59, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
:Which, y'know, kinda makes sense based on the geological processes behind volcanoes and sedimentary rocks. That is, volcanoes form igneous rock around them, bringing the temperature and pressure up on the surrounding rock and converting it to metamorphic. So the presence of a brook would indicate that the volcano is dormant enough for water flows to create channels in the area, and also dormant enough that sedimentary rock (and not just plain sediment, or soil) could form and continue to exist. Just to be clear: when you say "on an embark tile with a volcano", you ARE talking about a 1x1 region on the Local map of the Embark screen? And not the 4x4 region which is the usual embark site? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:03, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
::Aside from that, in my pseudo smartguy terms, volcanoes are upwellings of "new" rock, and are as geologically different from ancient coal-bearing rock (coal is a '''fossil fuel''' y'know) as you can possibly have on the same planet. Although in the current version, if the embark screen does not list sedimentary rock as one of the layers for the selected biome, you aren't going to find it anywhere in the map no matter how large it is. I get the impression this is more a game mechanic thing to balance the relative advantages of playing in a volcano area (huge amounts of high value ores and obsidian, easy access to magma with low/no risk).[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 01:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
::By the way a pretty simple way to force a lot of volcanoes for your map is just to set "Minimum Volcanoes" option in the world gen parameters to 100 or so, on a medium map this takes little time to roll up and can be previewed before going through the history iterations - hit a key and scroll around the map and see if it looks promising, and abort if it doesn't, continue if it does. --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 01:45, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

It appears to be simply simple impossible to get coal on a volcano map regardless of what rock layers are shown on the embark screen. On the other hand, you can make charcoal from burning wood, so the easy access to magma is still a pretty great advantage and you can still make steel eventually.[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 07:00, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

== Volcano - magma sea connection and exploration ==

After some playing and a bit of my habit from 40d days, when plugging up a volcano with water, i found out that crashing tiles dropping down into it will go down to the magma sea and act as "explorers" to uncover tiles. i'm unsure whether its an isolated case or a common occurence, so if anyone could confirm, i'd be grateful - [[User:Vrga|Vrga]] 06:45, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

== Volcano and undeground lakes ==

I embarked at volcano area at freezing biome, and got problem with absence of water. The only underground lake was found at the far edge of second cavern - first was completely dry. Is it volcano influence or just random? On maps without volcano each cavern had it's lake, sometimes several of them.[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 06:39, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:As far as I can tell, this is completely random - in some volcano maps I've found huge lakes 10 levels below sea level, and in some more like 100 z-levels down.[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 06:59, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Volcano

2010-08-14T06:59:55Z

FleshForge: /* Volcano and undeground lakes */

__TOC__

==Differences from 40d==
I'd just like to note some differences between 40d volcanos and the new ones. From what I've seen, they have fixed designs as opposed to random shifting patterns as you go down the z axis and act more like pipes that were lucky enough to reach the surface during worldgen. The last one I embarked on actually protruded out of the ground for 4 z axis' sort of like a chimney
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h133/Radicalaces/chimney.png?t=1273214099
--[[User:radical|radical]] 07:12, 7 May 2010 (EST)

==Rock layers==
I'm not sure if this is within the scope of the article, but something I've noted after a -large- amount of volcano-hunting is that the only way to get sedimentary rock on an embark tile with a volcano is for there to also be a brook in the area. Probably needs some independent confirmation, but after probably 200-250 medium maps checked, I'm pretty confident in my analysis. [[Special:Contributions/24.35.61.81|24.35.61.81]] 00:59, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
:Which, y'know, kinda makes sense based on the geological processes behind volcanoes and sedimentary rocks. That is, volcanoes form igneous rock around them, bringing the temperature and pressure up on the surrounding rock and converting it to metamorphic. So the presence of a brook would indicate that the volcano is dormant enough for water flows to create channels in the area, and also dormant enough that sedimentary rock (and not just plain sediment, or soil) could form and continue to exist. Just to be clear: when you say "on an embark tile with a volcano", you ARE talking about a 1x1 region on the Local map of the Embark screen? And not the 4x4 region which is the usual embark site? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:03, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
::Aside from that, in my pseudo smartguy terms, volcanoes are upwellings of "new" rock, and are as geologically different from ancient coal-bearing rock (coal is a '''fossil fuel''' y'know) as you can possibly have on the same planet. Although in the current version, if the embark screen does not list sedimentary rock as one of the layers for the selected biome, you aren't going to find it anywhere in the map no matter how large it is. I get the impression this is more a game mechanic thing to balance the relative advantages of playing in a volcano area (huge amounts of high value ores and obsidian, easy access to magma with low/no risk).[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 01:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
::By the way a pretty simple way to force a lot of volcanoes for your map is just to set "Minimum Volcanoes" option in the world gen parameters to 100 or so, on a medium map this takes little time to roll up and can be previewed before going through the history iterations - hit a key and scroll around the map and see if it looks promising, and abort if it doesn't, continue if it does. --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 01:45, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

It appears to be simply simple impossible to get coal on a volcano map regardless of what rock layers are shown on the embark screen. On the other hand, you can make charcoal from burning wood, so the easy access to magma is still a pretty great advantage and you can still make steel eventually. !!!!

== Volcano - magma sea connection and exploration ==

After some playing and a bit of my habit from 40d days, when plugging up a volcano with water, i found out that crashing tiles dropping down into it will go down to the magma sea and act as "explorers" to uncover tiles. i'm unsure whether its an isolated case or a common occurence, so if anyone could confirm, i'd be grateful - [[User:Vrga|Vrga]] 06:45, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

== Volcano and undeground lakes ==

I embarked at volcano area at freezing biome, and got problem with absence of water. The only underground lake was found at the far edge of second cavern - first was completely dry. Is it volcano influence or just random? On maps without volcano each cavern had it's lake, sometimes several of them.[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 06:39, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:As far as I can tell, this is completely random - in some volcano maps I've found huge lakes 10 levels below sea level, and in some more like 100 z-levels down.[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 06:59, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Volcano

2010-08-14T06:58:00Z

FleshForge: /* Rock layers */

__TOC__

==Differences from 40d==
I'd just like to note some differences between 40d volcanos and the new ones. From what I've seen, they have fixed designs as opposed to random shifting patterns as you go down the z axis and act more like pipes that were lucky enough to reach the surface during worldgen. The last one I embarked on actually protruded out of the ground for 4 z axis' sort of like a chimney
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h133/Radicalaces/chimney.png?t=1273214099
--[[User:radical|radical]] 07:12, 7 May 2010 (EST)

==Rock layers==
I'm not sure if this is within the scope of the article, but something I've noted after a -large- amount of volcano-hunting is that the only way to get sedimentary rock on an embark tile with a volcano is for there to also be a brook in the area. Probably needs some independent confirmation, but after probably 200-250 medium maps checked, I'm pretty confident in my analysis. [[Special:Contributions/24.35.61.81|24.35.61.81]] 00:59, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
:Which, y'know, kinda makes sense based on the geological processes behind volcanoes and sedimentary rocks. That is, volcanoes form igneous rock around them, bringing the temperature and pressure up on the surrounding rock and converting it to metamorphic. So the presence of a brook would indicate that the volcano is dormant enough for water flows to create channels in the area, and also dormant enough that sedimentary rock (and not just plain sediment, or soil) could form and continue to exist. Just to be clear: when you say "on an embark tile with a volcano", you ARE talking about a 1x1 region on the Local map of the Embark screen? And not the 4x4 region which is the usual embark site? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:03, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
::Aside from that, in my pseudo smartguy terms, volcanoes are upwellings of "new" rock, and are as geologically different from ancient coal-bearing rock (coal is a '''fossil fuel''' y'know) as you can possibly have on the same planet. Although in the current version, if the embark screen does not list sedimentary rock as one of the layers for the selected biome, you aren't going to find it anywhere in the map no matter how large it is. I get the impression this is more a game mechanic thing to balance the relative advantages of playing in a volcano area (huge amounts of high value ores and obsidian, easy access to magma with low/no risk).[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 01:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
::By the way a pretty simple way to force a lot of volcanoes for your map is just to set "Minimum Volcanoes" option in the world gen parameters to 100 or so, on a medium map this takes little time to roll up and can be previewed before going through the history iterations - hit a key and scroll around the map and see if it looks promising, and abort if it doesn't, continue if it does. --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 01:45, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

It appears to be simply simple impossible to get coal on a volcano map regardless of what rock layers are shown on the embark screen. On the other hand, you can make charcoal from burning wood, so the easy access to magma is still a pretty great advantage and you can still make steel eventually. !!!!

== Volcano - magma sea connection and exploration ==

After some playing and a bit of my habit from 40d days, when plugging up a volcano with water, i found out that crashing tiles dropping down into it will go down to the magma sea and act as "explorers" to uncover tiles. i'm unsure whether its an isolated case or a common occurence, so if anyone could confirm, i'd be grateful - [[User:Vrga|Vrga]] 06:45, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

== Volcano and undeground lakes ==

I embarked at volcano area at freezing biome, and got problem with absence of water. The only underground lake was found at the far edge of second cavern - first was completely dry. Is it volcano influence or just random? On maps without volcano each cavern had it's lake, sometimes several of them.[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 06:39, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Fuel

2010-08-11T10:59:34Z

FleshForge: /* Apparent bug? */

Wait, I'm confused - are charcoal and coke identical for all in-game purposes or not? [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 16:09, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, they are.-[[User:Studoku|Studoku]] 03:18, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

== Chance to use an old page ==

I've always thought that charts like the one on the old [[Fuel Industry]] page were quite helpful, so I think a similar chart would be very welcome on the new version of the page. Since (as far as I can tell) the old chart is largely still accurate, it seems like it'd be a good idea just to port the old chart over and if necessary give it a tweak or two. Any thoughts? --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 17:41, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

== Fuel usage for Steel ==

It looks like this page was copied directly from 40d version, complete with the note about fuel usage for making steel (namely, that the refined coal works both as fuel and as a reagent). However, [[DF2010:Pig iron|Pig iron]] states that the refined coal is '''not''' counted as fuel and that a normal smelter would need '''two''' units of fuel to make pig iron or steel (just as was the case back in the 2D version). One of these is wrong. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:37, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

:2 coke for both pig iron and steel verified at a conventional smelter. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 23:06, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Anyone know how to mod in a new magma powered workshop?

== Apparent bug? ==
It seems that when you have a Block/Bar stockpile set up, the smelter can become confused and gives the message "Urist McFuelUser cancels job: needs refined coal." even though you have piles of coal and no jobs involving coal queued on any structures - and this seems to be tied to the "cancels clean self: area inaccessible" soap bug, also in the same kind of stockpile. As soon as I removed the wonky stockpile the problem with the smelter went away. --[[Special:Contributions/75.108.246.131|75.108.246.131]] 10:04, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
:: Ah ha. You need charcoal or coke to start it up, even to make coke from coal.--[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 10:59, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Well guide

2010-08-10T11:50:01Z

FleshForge: Created page with '== Where's the guide? == Linked here from the Well main page, which says "see the (recommended) Well Guide" ... I would like to read this guide :) --~~~~'

== Where's the guide? ==
Linked here from the [[Well]] main page, which says "see the (recommended) Well Guide" ... I would like to read this guide :) --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 11:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Tower-cap

2010-08-08T02:58:35Z

FleshForge:

==Prerequisites==
Is it necessary to have uncovered some of the underground for tower-caps to start growing? -[[User:Goffrie|Goffrie]] 20:46, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Looks like it. Muddied an area of a bit over 2000 tiles, and after 2 seasons none have grown. Edit: 1 year on, no tower caps. Definately need to uncover something.

:Yep, you need to have hit a cavern. I'm 3 seasons in, have breached a cavern and have tower caps and shrubs growing in underground :soil near a brook. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 08:12, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

:Instantly after you uncover a cavern, underground trees can start growing EVERYWHERE in the fort on any suitable surface - 10 levels up on sand that hasn't been irrigated yet e.g. --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 02:58, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Farming

2010-08-07T09:52:41Z

FleshForge:

Placing a farm on rock
Needs Soil or mud
No Mud for underground farm
Mud is left by water

Placing a farm on surface soil
No Mud for underground farm
Mud is left by water

Placing a farm on mud found in an underground complex
<<No Error Message>>

So This is either a major bug, or a mechanics change and a minor text inconsistency.[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 22:35, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

:This is a bug. You're supposed to be able to farm on soil. I'll try to track down the forum thread, one moment --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 22:37, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

:Aha, so saith the Baughn: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51951.msg1123336#msg1123336
:--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 22:41, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
::Who is but a lowly dabbling SDL coder and has not insight into the game code or Toady's intentions.--[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 15:31, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Toady confirmed it too, you realize. Twice.--[[Special:Contributions/174.113.156.80|174.113.156.80]] 01:33, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== Seeds can not be grown on non-soil, non-subterranean tiles ==

I recently attempted to follow the advice in the article, channeling out several tiles near a river, irrigating them, and building a farm plot on the muddied tiles. However, when I tried to set the field to be planted, all seeds (surface AND subterranean) are disabled, and the message "No seeds available for this location" is displayed. The soil layer, as it turns out, was only one tile thick, and even though the tiles are "above ground" (not even indoors yet, I haven't built a roof over them), they are ineligible for any seeds to be planted on... subterranean crops because the tiles are above ground, and surface crops because the floors are mud-covered diorite instead of one of the clay/sand/soil types.

So, be warned... attempting to create an indoor, irrigated surface crop farm will not work if you accidentally channel down to stone. Surface crops will not grow in mud-covered rock, only in soil (mud-covered or otherwise). --[[User:Tatterdemalian|Tatterdemalian]] 22:09, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
:Have same problem... did you dig out the level below your "aboveground" farm? I did (z1 and z2 dug out) and I remember towercaps and the lot can't grow unless they have a floor tiles and wall below (z1 dug out but not z2), perhaps crops follow the same rules? I'll test this.--[[Special:Contributions/99.67.238.66|99.67.238.66]] 05:54, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
::I just encountered this issue (version 31.04) but in a slightly different context. I dug out four rooms underground in sand, did *not* dig out the tiles underneath, built 4 farms on the sand without irigating, and then got the message that that there are "No seeds available for this location", despite having just embarked with many seeds. Maybe I'll try tearing down the farms and irrigating first. --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 17:55, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
:::DF2010 requires farms to have mud whether on rock or soil layers. Cheers--[[Special:Contributions/99.67.238.66|99.67.238.66]] 00:50, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::::Technically, it’s the bug that requires it (if I’m reading all the information correctly). It seems that DF 2010 is supposed to allow farms on soil regardless of mud. (Am I right, or is this actually intended behaviour?) I had thought that the bug was that you couldn’t build the farms without the mud, but that doesn’t appear to be the case. You can build the farms just fine, but the code doesn’t appear to “see” any valid seeds to plant after they are built.
::::I tore down my farms (successfully built on soil without mud), flooded the area, and then built them again and sure enough the farms now “see” the seeds I have. --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 19:54, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I thought that farms not growing without mud underground was a purposeful change on Toady's part. I suppose I assumed that because of how subterranean trees only grow in muddied soil. Also you don't have to have mud, above ground farms accept all the correct seeds if on soil that issn't irrigated. --[[Special:Contributions/99.67.238.66|99.67.238.66]] 22:00, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::Hmmm. I thought that the only reason mud was needed for the underground trees was because they were on rock, not soil. Regardless, after testing it out, here's what I found:
::::::- You can *build* a farm on any soil (above ground or below)
::::::- Only the farm built above ground will "see" any available seeds (assuming no mud)
::::::- You can build an underground farm on soil and muddy the ground *afterward*
::::::- You can build a farm on part muddied ground and part soil and it will be able to "see" available seeds. HOWEVER, your dwarves will only plant on the muddied part of the farm.
::::::- Water both provides mud *and* washes it away. If you build an underground room with a hole in the ceiling and mark that hole with a "pond" zone so your dwarves bring water to it and dump the water in the room, you will see piles of mud appear on some of the tiles and be washed off of others (no idea what determines which of the two happen).
::::::And that was the extent of my testing. --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 01:47, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

::::::: Finally got around to trying to build a farm on muddied soil above ground with a natural wall on the next level down. Testing shows that no seeds can be used on such terrain. So for DF2010 aboveground farms must be built on soil (muddied or unmuddied) and underground farms can grow on any terrain as long as the tiles are muddy. aboveground farms will not work on muddied rock tiles. I'll go ahead and add this to the actual page.--[[Special:Contributions/99.67.238.66|99.67.238.66]] 21:05, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Merge ==
I don't see why we need a separate page for [[Farm Plot]] and [[Farming]]. Merger anyone? [[User:Kenji 03|Kenji 03]] 12:28, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:Also, labors are typically described in their respective skill page. In this case, [[DF2010:Farmer|Farmer]] --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 13:05, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
::Both pages exist as full pages in the 40d namespace, in addition to a farmer page. This suggests that there is sufficient material for all three pages, although someone would need to spend more time reviewing how the topic space was divided in 40d to figure out why. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:44, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

::Farming desribes the concept, plant uses, importance, possibilites and caveats; Overview. Farm plot goes right down to 'key-pressing' and 'cursor-moving', that is, details and step-to-step. Ultimately it is an article on a building. I don't recall ever using the page Farm plot, but I think we should keep the 2. Looking over the old versions, I think the distinction should be made clearer, though. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 14:34, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

:::I agree, but with all the new info and users this approach seems not viable for now. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 18:56, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

== Farming Chart ==

[[Image:Df-crops-diagram.png|thumb|200px|General farming flowchart.]]
I found this chart to the right in the 40d farming page. I was just wondering if it is still current, so we can put it in the current page.

== Harvesting ==
Probably it ought to be noted that if your dwarves aren't quick enough to harvest a ripe bit of crop, it will wither and become refuse (happens to me when I set "Only Farmers harvest").--[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 09:52, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Volcano

2010-08-07T01:45:56Z

FleshForge: /* Rock layers */

__TOC__

==Differences from 40d==
I'd just like to note some differences between 40d volcanos and the new ones. From what I've seen, they have fixed designs as opposed to random shifting patterns as you go down the z axis and act more like pipes that were lucky enough to reach the surface during worldgen. The last one I embarked on actually protruded out of the ground for 4 z axis' sort of like a chimney
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h133/Radicalaces/chimney.png?t=1273214099
--[[User:radical|radical]] 07:12, 7 May 2010 (EST)

==Rock layers==
I'm not sure if this is within the scope of the article, but something I've noted after a -large- amount of volcano-hunting is that the only way to get sedimentary rock on an embark tile with a volcano is for there to also be a brook in the area. Probably needs some independent confirmation, but after probably 200-250 medium maps checked, I'm pretty confident in my analysis. [[Special:Contributions/24.35.61.81|24.35.61.81]] 00:59, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
:Which, y'know, kinda makes sense based on the geological processes behind volcanoes and sedimentary rocks. That is, volcanoes form igneous rock around them, bringing the temperature and pressure up on the surrounding rock and converting it to metamorphic. So the presence of a brook would indicate that the volcano is dormant enough for water flows to create channels in the area, and also dormant enough that sedimentary rock (and not just plain sediment, or soil) could form and continue to exist. Just to be clear: when you say "on an embark tile with a volcano", you ARE talking about a 1x1 region on the Local map of the Embark screen? And not the 4x4 region which is the usual embark site? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:03, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
::Aside from that, in my pseudo smartguy terms, volcanoes are upwellings of "new" rock, and are as geologically different from ancient coal-bearing rock (coal is a '''fossil fuel''' y'know) as you can possibly have on the same planet. Although in the current version, if the embark screen does not list sedimentary rock as one of the layers for the selected biome, you aren't going to find it anywhere in the map no matter how large it is. I get the impression this is more a game mechanic thing to balance the relative advantages of playing in a volcano area (huge amounts of high value ores and obsidian, easy access to magma with low/no risk).[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 01:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
::By the way a pretty simple way to force a lot of volcanoes for your map is just to set "Minimum Volcanoes" option in the world gen parameters to 100 or so, on a medium map this takes little time to roll up and can be previewed before going through the history iterations - hit a key and scroll around the map and see if it looks promising, and abort if it doesn't, continue if it does. --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 01:45, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

== Volcano - magma sea connection and exploration ==

After some playing and a bit of my habit from 40d days, when plugging up a volcano with water, i found out that crashing tiles dropping down into it will go down to the magma sea and act as "explorers" to uncover tiles. i'm unsure whether its an isolated case or a common occurence, so if anyone could confirm, i'd be grateful - [[User:Vrga|Vrga]] 06:45, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

== Volcano and undeground lakes ==

I embarked at volcano area at freezing biome, and got problem with absence of water. The only underground lake was found at the far edge of second cavern - first was completely dry. Is it volcano influence or just random? On maps without volcano each cavern had it's lake, sometimes several of them.[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 06:39, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Volcano

2010-08-07T01:42:18Z

FleshForge: /* Rock layers */

__TOC__

==Differences from 40d==
I'd just like to note some differences between 40d volcanos and the new ones. From what I've seen, they have fixed designs as opposed to random shifting patterns as you go down the z axis and act more like pipes that were lucky enough to reach the surface during worldgen. The last one I embarked on actually protruded out of the ground for 4 z axis' sort of like a chimney
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h133/Radicalaces/chimney.png?t=1273214099
--[[User:radical|radical]] 07:12, 7 May 2010 (EST)

==Rock layers==
I'm not sure if this is within the scope of the article, but something I've noted after a -large- amount of volcano-hunting is that the only way to get sedimentary rock on an embark tile with a volcano is for there to also be a brook in the area. Probably needs some independent confirmation, but after probably 200-250 medium maps checked, I'm pretty confident in my analysis. [[Special:Contributions/24.35.61.81|24.35.61.81]] 00:59, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
:Which, y'know, kinda makes sense based on the geological processes behind volcanoes and sedimentary rocks. That is, volcanoes form igneous rock around them, bringing the temperature and pressure up on the surrounding rock and converting it to metamorphic. So the presence of a brook would indicate that the volcano is dormant enough for water flows to create channels in the area, and also dormant enough that sedimentary rock (and not just plain sediment, or soil) could form and continue to exist. Just to be clear: when you say "on an embark tile with a volcano", you ARE talking about a 1x1 region on the Local map of the Embark screen? And not the 4x4 region which is the usual embark site? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 07:03, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
::Aside from that, in my pseudo smartguy terms, volcanoes are upwellings of "new" rock, and are as geologically different from ancient coal-bearing rock (coal is a '''fossil fuel''' y'know) as you can possibly have on the same planet. Although in the current version, if the embark screen does not list sedimentary rock as one of the layers for the selected biome, you aren't going to find it anywhere in the map no matter how large it is. I get the impression this is more a game mechanic thing to balance the relative advantages of playing in a volcano area (huge amounts of high value ores and obsidian, easy access to magma with low/no risk).[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 01:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

== Volcano - magma sea connection and exploration ==

After some playing and a bit of my habit from 40d days, when plugging up a volcano with water, i found out that crashing tiles dropping down into it will go down to the magma sea and act as "explorers" to uncover tiles. i'm unsure whether its an isolated case or a common occurence, so if anyone could confirm, i'd be grateful - [[User:Vrga|Vrga]] 06:45, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

== Volcano and undeground lakes ==

I embarked at volcano area at freezing biome, and got problem with absence of water. The only underground lake was found at the far edge of second cavern - first was completely dry. Is it volcano influence or just random? On maps without volcano each cavern had it's lake, sometimes several of them.[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 06:39, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Volcano

2010-08-07T01:42:04Z

FleshForge: /* Rock layers */

v0.31 Talk:Embark

2010-08-06T20:51:09Z

FleshForge: /* make up your mind.. */

==Discussion==
* could not replicate the "double fish crash"

Never embark without elves or goblins. Elves bring superawesome animals ( I made a giant forest spider which is like the giant cave spider just in a forest and the elves brought me three of them in the second year) and various plants like whip vine and sunberries. And goblins, well, they make Fun.--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 19:37, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
: I'll second that. You gotta have hostiles, unless you want a peaceful farming town or a megaproject on an island. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:39, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

==Play Now, Fisherdwarf==
I just did a "Play Now!", and my Fisherdwarf does NOT have any social skills (just Novice Fisherdwarf), but he was still assigned as the Expedition Leader and I can assign labors just fine. Also, it's highly likely that the listed Dabbling skills were learned immediately '''after''' embarking, while said dwarf was talking to the others. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

==Play Now, worldgen titles?==
It's suggested that the initial 7 dwarves can come from worldgen. Some actual proof of this claim (e.g. savegame) would be nice. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:40, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

==Verification==
"Fish are double-listed in the embark items screen. If you choose both fish the game will crash.Verify"

:This is false; I've embarked with two separate barrels of cave lobsters twice now. I'm deleting this from the article. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 18:07, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

::Ya that's BS.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 18:22, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

::Hmm, I added that because it was on the "Known bugs" page. I'll go remove it from that then, as it seems this is false.

== No trade ==

Some of the civilizations in my embark screen have a "no trade" tag. What does it mean? --[[Special:Contributions/151.49.233.194|151.49.233.194]] 13:50, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

* they won't send any caravan --[[Special:Contributions/94.217.127.76|94.217.127.76]] 14:01, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

==make up your mind..==
* "'''Don't Really Need That''' - unless you have tailored your embark for metal production quick and early, '''''an anvil is unnecessary''''' and the 100 points you get from refunding it can be better spent on skills or additional foodstuffs"
* "'''Yes, I Do Need That''' - '''''never leave without an anvil''''', since nothing guarantees the first caravan will even have one for sale.
which one is it...? do, or don't?--[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 14:00, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:Doesn't matter, as they are different strategies. For me, an anvil is not a necessity. I've embarked plenty (mostly due to bugs!) and it seems like the items the first caravan brings are always the same, and include a steel and iron anvil. The first traders in 40d seemed to bring a lot more random stuff. Anybody?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:42, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

::I've had several maps where no dwarven caravan EVER showed up (thus no anvil to buy)! I don't know if this is intended or why it happens, but it does happen from time to time.[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 20:51, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

==Size of embark squares==
Not sure if this is noted anywhere on the wiki, but I think it might be useful to know that a single square on embark equates to a 48 by 48 square in fortress mode. Useful if you need to know a minimum size embark for that megaproject you're cooking up. [[User:Jjdorf|Jjdorf]] 22:33, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
: So the minimum embark of 2x2 is sized 96x96. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:39, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

== "Bone carving is next to worthless"? ==

I'm curious why Proteus feels bone carving is "next to worthless". Did he simply mean worthless as an embark skill, given that you'll quickly level it up? Or does he not churn out thousands upon thousands of dwarfbucks worth of bone/horn crafts to trade to the elves, and hundreds of bone bolts for hunters/military, like I do? --[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 12:55, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
: Wood, stone and metal are easier to come by than bones. Bone bolts are probably as bad as the wooden ones. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:39, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
:: I wouldn't say it's harder to get bone, a single hunter killing large critters produces way more bone than even 2-3 crafters can use up.--[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 20:29, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Embark

2010-08-06T20:29:50Z

FleshForge: /* "Bone carving is next to worthless"? */

==Discussion==
* could not replicate the "double fish crash"

Never embark without elves or goblins. Elves bring superawesome animals ( I made a giant forest spider which is like the giant cave spider just in a forest and the elves brought me three of them in the second year) and various plants like whip vine and sunberries. And goblins, well, they make Fun.--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 19:37, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
: I'll second that. You gotta have hostiles, unless you want a peaceful farming town or a megaproject on an island. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:39, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

==Play Now, Fisherdwarf==
I just did a "Play Now!", and my Fisherdwarf does NOT have any social skills (just Novice Fisherdwarf), but he was still assigned as the Expedition Leader and I can assign labors just fine. Also, it's highly likely that the listed Dabbling skills were learned immediately '''after''' embarking, while said dwarf was talking to the others. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

==Play Now, worldgen titles?==
It's suggested that the initial 7 dwarves can come from worldgen. Some actual proof of this claim (e.g. savegame) would be nice. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 17:40, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

==Verification==
"Fish are double-listed in the embark items screen. If you choose both fish the game will crash.Verify"

:This is false; I've embarked with two separate barrels of cave lobsters twice now. I'm deleting this from the article. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 18:07, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

::Ya that's BS.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 18:22, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

::Hmm, I added that because it was on the "Known bugs" page. I'll go remove it from that then, as it seems this is false.

== No trade ==

Some of the civilizations in my embark screen have a "no trade" tag. What does it mean? --[[Special:Contributions/151.49.233.194|151.49.233.194]] 13:50, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

* they won't send any caravan --[[Special:Contributions/94.217.127.76|94.217.127.76]] 14:01, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

==make up your mind..==
* "'''Don't Really Need That''' - unless you have tailored your embark for metal production quick and early, '''''an anvil is unnecessary''''' and the 100 points you get from refunding it can be better spent on skills or additional foodstuffs"
* "'''Yes, I Do Need That''' - '''''never leave without an anvil''''', since nothing guarantees the first caravan will even have one for sale.
which one is it...? do, or don't?--[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 14:00, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:Doesn't matter, as they are different strategies. For me, an anvil is not a necessity. I've embarked plenty (mostly due to bugs!) and it seems like the items the first caravan brings are always the same, and include a steel and iron anvil. The first traders in 40d seemed to bring a lot more random stuff. Anybody?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:42, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

==Size of embark squares==
Not sure if this is noted anywhere on the wiki, but I think it might be useful to know that a single square on embark equates to a 48 by 48 square in fortress mode. Useful if you need to know a minimum size embark for that megaproject you're cooking up. [[User:Jjdorf|Jjdorf]] 22:33, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
: So the minimum embark of 2x2 is sized 96x96. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:39, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

== "Bone carving is next to worthless"? ==

I'm curious why Proteus feels bone carving is "next to worthless". Did he simply mean worthless as an embark skill, given that you'll quickly level it up? Or does he not churn out thousands upon thousands of dwarfbucks worth of bone/horn crafts to trade to the elves, and hundreds of bone bolts for hunters/military, like I do? --[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 12:55, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
: Wood, stone and metal are easier to come by than bones. Bone bolts are probably as bad as the wooden ones. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 22:39, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
:: I wouldn't say it's harder to get bone, a single hunter killing large critters produces way more bone than even 2-3 crafters can use up.--[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 20:29, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Ice

2010-08-06T10:14:37Z

FleshForge:

Observations from a freezing biome.
Mined ice produces boulders of Ice which can be built with or dumped, they still cannot be added to stockpiles and will melt underground or if the overground temperature rises.
Ice boulders melt into 'dirty ice', which is liable to be cleaned up by a bored dwarf, and then into 'stagnant water'.
Stagnant water seems to act like blood smears and other psuedo liquids, it doesnt actually put water in the square, run or form pools.
Neither 'dirty ice' nor 'stagnant water' will muddy a floor for farming.
Anyone see any mistakes in this?
:I sure do, my good fellow; I sure do. --[[User:Bronzebeard|Bronzebeard]] 06:27, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

As for temperate biome, mined ice produces 'water' item {{Raw Tile|≈|3:1}} which can be cleaned. 
BTW, brook behaves curiously on winter coming. I've got an edge of two biomes on my map and the brook is flowing from one to another. And on late Autumn first freezes the upstream part of the brook, then the downstream part does, on Spring downstream part melts first, then the upstream does. --[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 13:34, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
:That sounds like expected behavior to me. The colder tiles will freeze sooner and thaw later, regardless of the water source in question. --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 13:53, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
::It looks funny, when a half of brook is frozen and the other half still flowing =)
::Further experiment shows: 
:: * Later, on early winter it is always ice.
:: * When it is an ice boulder {{Raw Tile|•|3:1}} it can be used as other stone, for example a wall can be build of it.
:: * When it is an ice pile {{Raw Tile|≈|3:1}} it can be cleaned. Both items are described as 'ice'.
:: --[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 14:17, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
:::I've seen this as well in a temperate climate with a brook. The transitions happen at consistent dates in the calender, obviously with water being liquid first, then patchily turning to ice, and the mined ice being anything from stagnant water, through dirty ice to ice (appearing as rocks) depending on the date and position on the map. Channelling the stuff creates 'glacial slopes', and any water that's flowed under the lip of the surrounding land (due to winter mining at the edges of the ponds/brooks when the water froze in previous winters) tends not to freeze up the following winter, at least at my current location, which can be a pain in the arse as it creates an 'entombing' hazard for the miners if they need to get access again and release too much of it at once and get caught in the quickly freezing flow. I can't wait for some sort of dwarven thermometer to be announced so that we can dot them around the locale and chart things a little more accurately. Could even have a 'noble' buzzing around with chalk and slate, doing the job for you.
::::Even though mined ice is treated as stone for purposes of construction I have had no luck getting any workshops to use it as such (ice furniture/blocks/crafts). Also making ice workshops works fine for me, i even have a working ice magma glass furnace. I have 2 magma glass furnaces, 1 melts quickly after construction the other doesn't, the one that doesn't melt is in a part of my map which is in a freezing glacier biome, the other in merely a 'cold' biome, the melting persists even when it's winter and temperature in that biome is subzero. --[[User:MLegion|MLegion]] 16:39, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Personal observations as of 31.11: Ice stones can be designated to be picked up but won't be. Dwarfs just ignore it, even though they'll bring other dumped items to the garbage zone. I cannot do anything with ice. (This is rather irritating for me, because the ice.just.won't.melt.).
:::::As of 31.12 I can mark ice chunks for dumping and it works normally. --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 10:14, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

I get the impression you just can't farm at all in an ice map unless you are fortunate enough (!) to have water somewhere on the map that is practical to get to. That's a real shame! --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 04:02, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
:: It turns out this is actually not all that hard, if you have large amounts and Z-levels of ice terrain type on your map: [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63151.msg1457946#msg1457946 forum link] --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 10:14, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Ice

2010-08-05T04:02:58Z

FleshForge:

Observations from a freezing biome.
Mined ice produces boulders of Ice which can be built with or dumped, they still cannot be added to stockpiles and will melt underground or if the overground temperature rises.
Ice boulders melt into 'dirty ice', which is liable to be cleaned up by a bored dwarf, and then into 'stagnant water'.
Stagnant water seems to act like blood smears and other psuedo liquids, it doesnt actually put water in the square, run or form pools.
Neither 'dirty ice' nor 'stagnant water' will muddy a floor for farming.
Anyone see any mistakes in this?
:I sure do, my good fellow; I sure do. --[[User:Bronzebeard|Bronzebeard]] 06:27, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

As for temperate biome, mined ice produces 'water' item {{Raw Tile|≈|3:1}} which can be cleaned. 
BTW, brook behaves curiously on winter coming. I've got an edge of two biomes on my map and the brook is flowing from one to another. And on late Autumn first freezes the upstream part of the brook, then the downstream part does, on Spring downstream part melts first, then the upstream does. --[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 13:34, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
:That sounds like expected behavior to me. The colder tiles will freeze sooner and thaw later, regardless of the water source in question. --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 13:53, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
::It looks funny, when a half of brook is frozen and the other half still flowing =)
::Further experiment shows: 
:: * Later, on early winter it is always ice.
:: * When it is an ice boulder {{Raw Tile|•|3:1}} it can be used as other stone, for example a wall can be build of it.
:: * When it is an ice pile {{Raw Tile|≈|3:1}} it can be cleaned. Both items are described as 'ice'.
:: --[[User:Peregarrett|Peregarrett]] 14:17, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
:::I've seen this as well in a temperate climate with a brook. The transitions happen at consistent dates in the calender, obviously with water being liquid first, then patchily turning to ice, and the mined ice being anything from stagnant water, through dirty ice to ice (appearing as rocks) depending on the date and position on the map. Channelling the stuff creates 'glacial slopes', and any water that's flowed under the lip of the surrounding land (due to winter mining at the edges of the ponds/brooks when the water froze in previous winters) tends not to freeze up the following winter, at least at my current location, which can be a pain in the arse as it creates an 'entombing' hazard for the miners if they need to get access again and release too much of it at once and get caught in the quickly freezing flow. I can't wait for some sort of dwarven thermometer to be announced so that we can dot them around the locale and chart things a little more accurately. Could even have a 'noble' buzzing around with chalk and slate, doing the job for you.
::::Even though mined ice is treated as stone for purposes of construction I have had no luck getting any workshops to use it as such (ice furniture/blocks/crafts). Also making ice workshops works fine for me, i even have a working ice magma glass furnace. I have 2 magma glass furnaces, 1 melts quickly after construction the other doesn't, the one that doesn't melt is in a part of my map which is in a freezing glacier biome, the other in merely a 'cold' biome, the melting persists even when it's winter and temperature in that biome is subzero. --[[User:MLegion|MLegion]] 16:39, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Personal observations as of 31.11: Ice stones can be designated to be picked up but won't be. Dwarfs just ignore it, even though they'll bring other dumped items to the garbage zone. I cannot do anything with ice. (This is rather irritating for me, because the ice.just.won't.melt.).

I get the impression you just can't farm at all in an ice map unless you are fortunate enough (!) to have water somewhere on the map that is practical to get to. That's a real shame! --[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 04:02, 5 August 2010 (UTC)