Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Elf

2022-12-22T08:05:10Z

Galach: /* Genderless Attribute */

== "Elf Racism" edits ==

Is there an official Kitfox policy on how Elves should be represented, as suggested in the patch notes? If so, where is it accessible? As a long-time reader the "D for Dwarf" sections and humour really help this wiki, and the game's community in general, stand out. --{{Unsigned|87.198.240.206‎}}

: it's pinned in the kitfox discord [#df-discussion] but i'll ask if it can be made more public. [[User:Su|Su]] ([[User talk:Su|talk]]) 14:08, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

: All I see is a comment on what's allowed/not allowed in their Discord Server? What all are the terms of the recent Kitfox Sponsorship? Is this wiki still community run or was it actually aquired by Kitfox? Obviously racism that's even remotely mappable to real life is unnacceptable, but DF does run into the fantasy problem of "Inherently Evil" races, and the videogame problem of races=factions. Considering DF is already Medieval Warcrime Simulator, I think maybe a policy of rephrasing existing wiki content rather than removal might result in a better balance of content. Like, calling them cannibal hippies is just accurate, while calling them suck-up jerks or cowards might be going a bit far? More nuanced discussion of specific edits needed. --{{Unsigned|87.198.240.206‎}}

: Side comment: I am unfamiliar with the 'Kitfox policy' either. If it is applicable here, it might be best to reference it in an appropriate place (Community Portal? just don't take the K rule please (even thought the game is not using 100% keyboard input anymore) to avoid unnecessary edit warring. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 14:28, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Per Emi and Locriani, Kitfox does not control policy on this wiki ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180564.0]). The Discord policy is separate. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:30, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Additionally, the only pinned post on Discord that I was able to find reads:
::Yeah, the rampant elf racism masks very real racism way too often for us to allow it here when there's so many people to deal with.
:which I don't think applies to the wiki in either way (our editor traffic is not nearly so high or problematic). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:16, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

::Per @Lethosor, the admin, discord policies doesn't apply here. If there any further issue with content (I am also not a fan of such [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Elf&curid=31262&diff=278603&oldid=276818 edits]) I encourage you to resolve these here on talk avoiding edit warring and [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Talk%3AElf&type=revision&diff=278604&oldid=276058 counterproductive practices]. Also please sign your comments with <code><nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki></code> at the end. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:09, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

There did seem to be a number of people who agreed with [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Elf&curid=31262&diff=278603&oldid=276818]. On the other hand, I don't want the article to gain too many new jokes ([https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Elf&diff=278763&oldid=278603]) so I have limited editing to only autoconfirmed users for now. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:06, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

== Trade ==

FYI there is a lot of info concerning Trade at [[Trading#Elven]]. Not sure what should go where or how reliable the info in either location for v50. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 22:20, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

== Genderless Attribute ==

I'm a bit confused as to why the "genderless" attribute has been added to the elf page. This attribute denotes creatures without male and female castes declared in the raws, which elves still have. --[[User:Galach|Galach]] ([[User talk:Galach|talk]]) 06:55, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

: The raw files haven't been updated yet, so lacking cast info the infobox defaults to [[Genderless]]. Simply put amt all creatures are tagged as genderless, including the dwarves.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:44, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

:: Ah, I should have looked at the other pages. Thanks for clearing that up --[[User:Galach|Galach]] ([[User talk:Galach|talk]]) 08:03, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Elf

2022-12-22T08:04:16Z

Galach: /* Genderless Attribute */

== "Elf Racism" edits ==

Is there an official Kitfox policy on how Elves should be represented, as suggested in the patch notes? If so, where is it accessible? As a long-time reader the "D for Dwarf" sections and humour really help this wiki, and the game's community in general, stand out. --{{Unsigned|87.198.240.206‎}}

: it's pinned in the kitfox discord [#df-discussion] but i'll ask if it can be made more public. [[User:Su|Su]] ([[User talk:Su|talk]]) 14:08, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

: All I see is a comment on what's allowed/not allowed in their Discord Server? What all are the terms of the recent Kitfox Sponsorship? Is this wiki still community run or was it actually aquired by Kitfox? Obviously racism that's even remotely mappable to real life is unnacceptable, but DF does run into the fantasy problem of "Inherently Evil" races, and the videogame problem of races=factions. Considering DF is already Medieval Warcrime Simulator, I think maybe a policy of rephrasing existing wiki content rather than removal might result in a better balance of content. Like, calling them cannibal hippies is just accurate, while calling them suck-up jerks or cowards might be going a bit far? More nuanced discussion of specific edits needed. --{{Unsigned|87.198.240.206‎}}

: Side comment: I am unfamiliar with the 'Kitfox policy' either. If it is applicable here, it might be best to reference it in an appropriate place (Community Portal? just don't take the K rule please (even thought the game is not using 100% keyboard input anymore) to avoid unnecessary edit warring. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 14:28, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Per Emi and Locriani, Kitfox does not control policy on this wiki ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180564.0]). The Discord policy is separate. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:30, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Additionally, the only pinned post on Discord that I was able to find reads:
::Yeah, the rampant elf racism masks very real racism way too often for us to allow it here when there's so many people to deal with.
:which I don't think applies to the wiki in either way (our editor traffic is not nearly so high or problematic). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:16, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

::Per @Lethosor, the admin, discord policies doesn't apply here. If there any further issue with content (I am also not a fan of such [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Elf&curid=31262&diff=278603&oldid=276818 edits]) I encourage you to resolve these here on talk avoiding edit warring and [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Talk%3AElf&type=revision&diff=278604&oldid=276058 counterproductive practices]. Also please sign your comments with <code><nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki></code> at the end. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:09, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

There did seem to be a number of people who agreed with [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Elf&curid=31262&diff=278603&oldid=276818]. On the other hand, I don't want the article to gain too many new jokes ([https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Elf&diff=278763&oldid=278603]) so I have limited editing to only autoconfirmed users for now. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:06, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

== Trade ==

FYI there is a lot of info concerning Trade at [[Trading#Elven]]. Not sure what should go where or how reliable the info in either location for v50. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 22:20, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

== Genderless Attribute ==

I'm a bit confused as to why the "genderless" attribute has been added to the elf page. This attribute denotes creatures without male and female castes declared in the raws, which elves still have. --[[User:Galach|Galach]] ([[User talk:Galach|talk]]) 06:55, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

: The raw files haven't been updated yet, so lacking cast info the infobox defaults to [[Genderless]]. Simply put amt all creatures are tagged as genderless, including the dwarves.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 07:44, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

:: Ah, I should have looked the other pages. Thanks for clearing that up --[[User:Galach|Galach]] ([[User talk:Galach|talk]]) 08:03, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Elf

2022-12-22T06:57:03Z

Galach: /* Genderless Attribute */

Talk:Elf

2022-12-22T06:55:53Z

Galach: /* Genderless Attribute */ new section

== "Elf Racism" edits ==

Is there an official Kitfox policy on how Elves should be represented, as suggested in the patch notes? If so, where is it accessible? As a long-time reader the "D for Dwarf" sections and humour really help this wiki, and the game's community in general, stand out. --{{Unsigned|87.198.240.206‎}}

: it's pinned in the kitfox discord [#df-discussion] but i'll ask if it can be made more public. [[User:Su|Su]] ([[User talk:Su|talk]]) 14:08, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

: All I see is a comment on what's allowed/not allowed in their Discord Server? What all are the terms of the recent Kitfox Sponsorship? Is this wiki still community run or was it actually aquired by Kitfox? Obviously racism that's even remotely mappable to real life is unnacceptable, but DF does run into the fantasy problem of "Inherently Evil" races, and the videogame problem of races=factions. Considering DF is already Medieval Warcrime Simulator, I think maybe a policy of rephrasing existing wiki content rather than removal might result in a better balance of content. Like, calling them cannibal hippies is just accurate, while calling them suck-up jerks or cowards might be going a bit far? More nuanced discussion of specific edits needed. --{{Unsigned|87.198.240.206‎}}

: Side comment: I am unfamiliar with the 'Kitfox policy' either. If it is applicable here, it might be best to reference it in an appropriate place (Community Portal? just don't take the K rule please (even thought the game is not using 100% keyboard input anymore) to avoid unnecessary edit warring. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 14:28, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Per Emi and Locriani, Kitfox does not control policy on this wiki ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180564.0]). The Discord policy is separate. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:30, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:Additionally, the only pinned post on Discord that I was able to find reads:
::Yeah, the rampant elf racism masks very real racism way too often for us to allow it here when there's so many people to deal with.
:which I don't think applies to the wiki in either way (our editor traffic is not nearly so high or problematic). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:16, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

::Per @Lethosor, the admin, discord policies doesn't apply here. If there any further issue with content (I am also not a fan of such [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Elf&curid=31262&diff=278603&oldid=276818 edits]) I encourage you to resolve these here on talk avoiding edit warring and [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Talk%3AElf&type=revision&diff=278604&oldid=276058 counterproductive practices]. Also please sign your comments with <code><nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki></code> at the end. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:09, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

There did seem to be a number of people who agreed with [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Elf&curid=31262&diff=278603&oldid=276818]. On the other hand, I don't want the article to gain too many new jokes ([https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Elf&diff=278763&oldid=278603]) so I have limited editing to only autoconfirmed users for now. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:06, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

== Trade ==

FYI there is a lot of info concerning Trade at [[Trading#Elven]]. Not sure what should go where or how reliable the info in either location for v50. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 22:20, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

== Genderless Attribute ==

I'm a bit confused as to why the "genderless" attribute has been added to the elf page. This attribute denotes creatures without male and female castes declared in the raws, which elves still have. [[User:Galach|Galach]] ([[User talk:Galach|talk]]) 06:55, 22 December 2022 (UTC)Galach

Rose gold

2022-12-17T10:42:30Z

Galach:

{{Alloy|name=Rose Gold|color=5:5:1|color1=6:6:1|color2=6:4:0
|uses=
* [[Metalsmith's forge|Metal crafting]]
|recipe=
* 3 [[gold]] [[bar]]s
* 1 [[copper]] [[bar]]
|properties=
* [[Material value]] 23
{{firemagmasafe|yes|no}}
* [[Melting point]] {{ct|11915}}
* [[Boiling point]] {{ct|15141}}
* [[Ignition point]] none
* [[Solid density]] 19320
* Liquid [[density]] 17310
* [[Specific heat]] 129
}}{{av}}{{Quality|Exceptional}}

'''Rose gold''' is an [[alloy]] of [[gold]] and [[copper]], made at a [[smelter]]. It is made by combining three gold [[bar]]s with one copper bar, which results in four rose gold bars. The value of this is a little subjective, as the total material worth of the produced metal is the same as that of the ingredients (3*30 and 1*2 -> 4*23). However, on screen it is a lovely purple color.

Disregarding [[fuel]], you lose the possible utility of the copper bar to get purple-coloured furniture and crafts (for buildings and constructions, [[bismuth]] will produce the same color). If you have no magma access then the transition will cost you fuel as well, so it's really a question of how important it is that you get purple [[metal]].

One quirk of rose gold is that it is the same density as gold, despite using a much lighter copper bar in its creation. If you're in need of a lot of especially heavy items for your [[stupid dwarf trick]], this bears consideration.

{{Translation| dwarven = istbar limul | elvish = sareve ithi | goblin = umstos ongong | human = tawki abli}}

[[File:The Jane Seymour - I.jpg|thumb|center|300px|Rose gold ring.]]

{{gamedata}}
{{metals}}

Shell

2022-11-12T12:37:17Z

Galach: /* Acquiring shells */

{{Quality|Superior|12:08, 18 May 2015 (UTC)}}
{{av}}
<onlyinclude>
[[File:Shells.jpg|thumb|right|Assorted shells]]
{{catbox}}
A '''shell''' is a hard external covering used by certain creatures for defense.

==Acquiring shells==
In most cases, they are acquired as part of your [[fishing]] industry: dwarves may catch shelled [[vermin]] critters such as [[turtle]]s, [[oyster]]s, and [[mussel]]s, which produce a shell when processed at a [[fishery]]. These creatures will also leave behind their shells if left to rot long enough after being caught. Alternatively, a few larger land animals ([[giant snail]]s, some [[forgotten beast]]s) also produce shells when their corpses are processed at a [[butcher's shop]].

Be aware that shells cannot be acquired via [[trading]] -- any turtles, crustaceans, or shellfish purchased from traders have already been processed and had their shells removed. As a result, fortresses with no naturally occurring above ground fishing sites usually never acquire shells. This can cause problems if a shell-preferring [[strange mood|moody]] dwarf requests shells as a material. To avoid the risk of dwarves attempting to make impossible artifacts, you can catch pond turtles by having [[fisherdwarf|fisherdwarves]] fish in an outdoor [[pond]]. As long as there is a population of pond turtles in the area, your fisherdwarves will eventually catch some, which can be shelled in a [[fishery]]. This process takes time, however, so make sure you do it ''before'' the strange mood strikes. Alternatively, you could use an adventurer to import shells from another location.

==Uses==
Shells can be worked by a dwarf with the [[bone carver]] [[skill]]. They can be used for many of the same purposes as [[bone]], such as in making [[crafts]], [[decoration]]s, and cheap, lightweight, low-defense [[armor]] ([[leggings]], [[greaves]], [[gauntlet]]s, and [[helm]]s only). Notably, unlike bones, they cannot be used to produce [[bolt]]s.

Shells can be stored in a [[stockpile#Refuse|refuse stockpile]]. Stored shells will decay over time due to [[vermin]], but even a small fishing industry can produce many shells very quickly. As such, having a bone carver on hand to convert them to trade goods can be an effective way to generate wealth early on; even though shells have a low innate material value, quantity can win out over quality here. Also, shell armor is better than nothing and doesn't slow down your military like metal armor does -- consider producing some early on if you can't immediately acquire metal armor.

</onlyinclude>

== Modding ==
{{mod|section}}
In previous versions, shells were frequently requested by [[strange mood|moody]] dwarves, and difficult if not impossible to obtain. As of the current version, only dwarves with a [[preference]] for shells will demand them for artifacts. Shells are still hard to come by, though, so players occasionally mod the game to make sure their fortress will have shells available.

=== Adding shells to existing creatures ===
The combination of the common requirement for shells during Strange Moods, the bug that causes shell-producing fish to be unavailable in many maps, and the inability to trade for shells may lead to unresolvable Strange Moods. It is possible to modify the raws to allow other creatures to produce shells, if the player is so inclined:

#In raw/objects/creature_domestic.txt, find "[CREATURE:COW]"
#Alter the [BODY] section to include ":SHELL" i.e., [BODY:QUADRUPED_HOOF:TAIL:2EYES:SHELL:BRAIN...]
#Add the [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SHELL:SHELL_TEMPLATE] tag to the [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS] section
#Add the [USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:SHELL:SHELL_TEMPLATE] tag to the [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES] section
#Add the [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:SHELL_POSITIONS] tag to the creature
#If you wish to apply this change to a game in progress, remember to also alter the copy of creature_domestic.txt contained in your saves folder, as each game has its own copies of the raws.

Slaughtering a cow should now produce a "Stray Cow shell" usable by dwarves stuck in strange moods.
Pay attention, that editing creature after creating world may cause later crashes when changing game's version. In fact, after porting the save to the modified version, the game will crash every time your dwarves try picking up the skeleton that previously had shell. It's '''strongly''' recommended to use the second way, as it doesn't add any new body part to creatures, but only add new way of using already existing body part, which is much less crash provoking.

=== Enabling other materials to be used in moods ===
If you don't want to add shells to existing creatures, you can enable other materials, like [[hoof|hooves]] or [[ivory]], to be used in strange moods instead of shells. The only effect is that the materials will be available for moods, you won't be able to e.g. make shell crafts of them.

#In raw/objects/material_template_default.txt look up the material you want to enable, for example [MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:HOOF_TEMPLATE]
#Add the [SHELL] tag to the material
#If you wish to apply this change to a game in progress, remember to also alter the copy of material_template_default.txt contained in your saves folder. The change won't affect body parts that are already lying around, but will affect newly created body parts from butchered creatures.

{{Translation
| dwarven = kerlîg
| elvish = caraca
| goblin = åtsnusm
| human = luthi
}}

{{gamedata}}
{{materials}}

{{Category|Body parts}}
{{Category|Creature attributes}}
{{Category|Materials}}
[[ru:Shell]]