Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

Main Page

2010-10-04T14:43:35Z

Jellyfishgreen: Blogs: bravemule.com

<h1 style="text-align: center;">The Dwarf Fortress Wiki</h1>

{{Main page progress bar|DF2010|height=10}}
<p style="text-align: center; font-weight: bold;">[[40d:Main_Page|Click here to view the main page for Dwarf Fortress version 40d.]]</p>
<br />
<p style="max-width: 48em; margin: 0 auto 0em;">
[[Welcome]] to the Dwarf Fortress Wiki. This is a collection of user-submitted guides, information and advice for  [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ "Dwarf Fortress"]. Dwarf Fortress is a game for Windows, Linux and Mac, developed by [http://www.bay12games.com/ Bay 12 Games] featuring two modes of play, as well as distinct, randomly-generated worlds (complete with terrain, wildlife and legends), gruesome combat mechanics and ubiquitous alcohol dependency. The wiki currently has '''{{Template:NUMBEROFARTICLES}} articles'''.
</p><br>

<div style="max-width: 48em; margin: 0 auto; text-align: center">
<div style="float: left; margin-right: 1em">{{Quote Box|{{sg}}}}</div>
<div style="float: right; margin-left: 1em">{{Quote Box|{{:Main Page/Quote|1}}}}</div>

{{news}}
</div>

{| style="width: 90%; max-width: 50em; margin: 0 auto; border-spacing: 1em; clear: both"
|-
| colspan="2" style="vertical-align: top" |

{| style="width: 100%; background: #fdc; border: 1px solid #a44; border-left-color:#faa; border-top-color:#faa; text-align: center"
|+ style="color: #fff; background: #d66; border: 1px solid #a44; border-left-color:#faa; border-top-color:#faa; padding: 0.2em 0.5em" | '''New to Dwarf Fortress?'''
|-
| style="width: 33%" | [[:Dwarf Fortress:About|About Dwarf Fortress]]
| style="width: 33%" | [[Game development]]
|-
| style="width: 33%" | [[Tutorials|How to Set Up and Play Dwarf Fortress]]
| style="width: 33%" | [[Game Basics]]
|-
| style="width: 33%" | [[Troubleshooting]]
| style="width: 33%" | [[DF2010:Starting build|Starting Build]]
|-
|
| style="width: 33%" | [[From Caravan to Happy Dwarves]]
|}

|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top" |

{| style="width: 100%; background: #ccf; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; text-align: center; margin-bottom: 1em"
|+ style="color: #fff; background: #46c; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; padding: 0.2em 0.5em" | '''Playing Dwarf Fortress'''
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Dwarf fortress mode|Fortress mode]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[Adventurer mode]]
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Reclaim fortress mode|Reclaim fortress]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[Legends]]
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Design strategies]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[Local map features]]
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[:Category:Bloodline_Games|Bloodline games]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[Stories]]
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[DF2010:Arena|The Arena]]
|}

{| style="width: 100%; background: #ccf; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; text-align: center; margin-bottom: 1em"
|+ style="color: #fff; background: #46c; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; padding: 0.2em 0.5em" | '''Gameplay elements'''
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Activity zone]]s
| style="width: 50%" | [[Farming]]
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Building]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[Combat]]
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Creatures]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[:Category:Designations|Designations]]
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Military]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[Noble]]s
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Rooms]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[Skill]]s
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Stockpile]]s
| style="width: 50%" | [[Workshop]]s
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Economics]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[Mining]]
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Location]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[Fun]]
|}

| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top" |

{| style="width: 100%; background: #ccf; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; text-align: center; margin-bottom: 1em"
|+ style="color: #fff; background: #46c; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; padding: 0.2em 0.5em" | '''Wiki articles by category'''
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[:Category:Dwarves|Dwarves]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[:Category:World|World]]
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[:Category:Buildings|Buildings]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[:Category:Mods|Mods]]
|-
| style="width:50%" | [[:Category:Items|Items]]
| style="width:50%" | [[:Category:Interface|Interface]]
|-
| colspan="2" | [[Special:Categories|All Categories]]
|}

{| style="width: 100%; background: #ccf; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; text-align: center"
|+ style="color: #fff; background: #46c; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; padding: 0.2em 0.5em" | '''Metagame editing and advice'''
|-
| [[World generation]]
|-
| [[Technical tricks]]
|-
| [[Utilities]]
|-
| '''[[Known bugs and issues]]'''
|-
| [[System requirements]]
|-
| [[Cheating]]
|-
| [[Maximizing framerate]]
|-
| [[Tilesets]]
|-
| [[Modding Guide]]
|}

|-
| colspan="2" style="vertical-align: top" |

{| style="width: 100%; background: #ddd; border: 1px solid #777; border-left-color:#bbb; border-top-color:#bbb;"
|+ style="color: #fff; background: #999; border: 1px solid #777; border-left-color:#bbb; border-top-color:#bbb; padding: 0.2em 0.5em; text-align: center" | '''Links'''
|-
! style="text-align: left; padding: 0.1em 0.5em" | Forums:
| [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/ Official Forums], [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=22.0 Official Wiki Forum], [http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=19469&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a xkcd Thread], [http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=6350.0 GamingSteve Thread], [http://www.cracked.com/forums/topic/28476/dwarf-fortress Cracked Thread], [http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=117872 Penny-Arcade Thread], [http://dwarvenpassion.smfforfree3.com/index.php Dwarves with a Passion], [http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=908019 Facepunch Studios Thread], [http://forum.team17.com/showthread.php?t=30824 Team17 Forum Thread], [http://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/ Reddit], [http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3293395 Something Awful], [http://www.xspore.com/community/dwarf-fortress/ xSpore], [http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/39309975/m/943000156931/p/1 Ars Technica], [http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/42890 GamersWithJobs Thread], [http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=10908 SpringRTS Thread], [http://forums.librejeu.fr/index.php?page=Board&boardID=3 French forum] ,[http://forum.canardpc.com/showthread.php?t=3652 Canard PC Thread (Fr)], [http://dwarf.forumczech.com/forum.htm Česke a slovenské forum (cz/sk)], [http://darkcloudterrace.dyndns.info/drupal6/?q=forum/4 http://darkcloudterrace.dyndns.info/drupal6/?q=forum/4 dwarf fortress unoffical forums]
|-
! style="text-align: left; padding: 0.1em 0.5em" | Blogs:
| [http://www.bravemule.com/ Bravemule], [http://dfc.smackjeeves.com/ Strike the Earth!]
|-
! style="text-align: left; padding: 0.1em 0.5em" | [[IRC|IRC Channels]]:
| [irc://irc.newnet.net/bay12games #bay12games] on newnet.net, [irc://irc.synirc.net/df #df] on synirc.net, [irc://irc.quakenet.org/DwarfFortress #DwarfFortress] on quakenet.org, [irc://irc.tellaerad.net/DF #DF] on tellaerad.net and [irc://irc.rizon.net/brofortress #brofortress] on rizon.net.
|-
! style="text-align: left; padding: 0.1em 0.5em" | Other Wikis:
| [http://www.dwarffortress.fr/wiki Le Wiki Français ], [http://dwarffortress.if.land.to/ The Japanese (日本語) Wiki ], [http://www.dfwk.ru The Russian Wiki ], [[Dwarf_Fortress_Italia| Wiki Italiano]]
|-
! style="text-align: left; padding: 0.1em 0.5em" | Useful Links:
| [http://mkv25.net/dfma/ Dwarf Fortress Map Archive], [http://dffd.wimbli.com/ Dwarf Fortress File Depot (DFFD)], [http://dfstories.com/ Dwarf Fortress Stories], [http://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/ Dwarf Fortress Reddit]
|-
! style="text-align: left; padding: 0.1em 0.5em" | Archives:
| [[23a:Main Page|v0.23.130.23a Wiki]], [[40d:Main Page|v0.28.181.40d Wiki]]
|}

|}
[[Category:Wiki]]

[[ru:Заглавная_страница]]
[[fr:Accueil]]

<div id="norate"></div>

Main Page

2010-02-03T23:35:33Z

Jellyfishgreen: http://dfc.smackjeeves.com/ dwarf fortress webcomic link.

<h1 style="text-align: center;">The Dwarf Fortress Wiki</h1>

<p style="max-width: 48em; margin: 0 auto 0em;">
Welcome to the Dwarf Fortress Wiki. This is a collection of user-submitted guides, information and advice for the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike Roguelike] game [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ "Dwarf Fortress"]. Dwarf Fortress is a game for Windows, Linux and Mac, developed by [http://www.bay12games.com/ Bay 12 Games] featuring two modes of play, a distinct, randomly-generated world (complete with terrain, wildlife and legends), gruesome combat mechanics and vicious schools of [[carp]]. The wiki currently has '''{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} articles'''.
</p><br>


<div style="max-width: 48em; margin: 0 auto; text-align: center">
<div style="float: left; margin-right: 1em">{{Quote Box|{{sg}}}}</div>
<div style="float: right; margin-left: 1em">{{Quote Box|{{:Main Page/Quote|1}}}}</div>

{{news}}
</div>

{| style="width: 90%; max-width: 50em; margin: 0 auto; border-spacing: 1em; clear: both"
|-
| colspan="2" style="vertical-align: top" |

{| style="width: 100%; background: #fdc; border: 1px solid #a44; border-left-color:#faa; border-top-color:#faa; text-align: center"
|+ style="color: #fff; background: #d66; border: 1px solid #a44; border-left-color:#faa; border-top-color:#faa; padding: 0.2em 0.5em" | '''New to Dwarf Fortress?'''
|-
| style="width: 33%" | [[:Dwarf Fortress:About|About Dwarf Fortress]]
| style="width: 33%" | '''[[:Category:Guides|Tutorials and guides]]''' 
| style="width: 33%" | [[Quickstart guide]] <small>''(recent)''</small>
|-
| style="width: 33%" | [[Frequently Asked Questions]]
| style="width: 33%" | * [[Your first fortress]] *
| style="width: 33%" | '''* [[Video tutorials]] *'''
|-
| style="width: 33%" | [[Important advice]]
| style="width: 33%" | * [[Indecisive's_illustrated_fortress_mode_tutorial|Indecisive's Illustrated Tutorial]] *
| style="width: 33%" | [[Pregenerated worlds|Seeds and Pregenerated Worlds]]

|-
| style="width: 33%" | [[Game development]]
| style="width: 33%" | * [[The Non-Dwarf's Guide to Rock|Non-Dwarf's Guide to Rock]] *
| style="width: 33%" | [[Starting build]]s
| style="width: 33%" |
|}

|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top" |

{| style="width: 100%; background: #ccf; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; text-align: center; margin-bottom: 1em"
|+ style="color: #fff; background: #46c; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; padding: 0.2em 0.5em" | '''Playing Dwarf Fortress'''
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Dwarf Fortress mode|Fortress mode]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[Adventurer mode]]
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Reclaim fortress mode|Reclaim fortress]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[Legends]]
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Design strategies]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[Local map features]]
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[:Category:Bloodline_Games|Bloodline games]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[Stories]]
|}

{| style="width: 100%; background: #ccf; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; text-align: center; margin-bottom: 1em"
|+ style="color: #fff; background: #46c; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; padding: 0.2em 0.5em" | '''Gameplay elements'''
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Activity zone]]s
| style="width: 50%" | [[Farming]]
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Building]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[Combat]]
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Creatures]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[:Category:Designations|Designations]]
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Military]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[Noble]]s
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Rooms]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[Skill]]s
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Stockpile]]s
| style="width: 50%" | [[Workshop]]s
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Economics]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[Mining]]
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[Location]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[Fun]]
|}

| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top" |

{| style="width: 100%; background: #ccf; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; text-align: center; margin-bottom: 1em"
|+ style="color: #fff; background: #46c; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; padding: 0.2em 0.5em" | '''Wiki articles by category'''
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[:Category:Dwarves|Dwarves]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[:Category:World|World]]
|-
| style="width: 50%" | [[:Category:Buildings|Buildings]]
| style="width: 50%" | [[:Category:Modding|Modding]]
|-
| style="width:50%" | [[:Category:Items|Items]]
| style="width:50%" | [[:Category:Interface|Interface]]
|-
| colspan="2" | [[Special:Categories|All Categories]]
|}

{| style="width: 100%; background: #ccf; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; text-align: center"
|+ style="color: #fff; background: #46c; border: 1px solid #24a; border-left-color:#79f; border-top-color:#79f; padding: 0.2em 0.5em" | '''Metagame editing and advice'''
|-
| [[Technical tricks]]
|-
| [[Utilities]]
|-
| [[Known bugs and issues]]
|-
| [[System requirements]]
|-
| [[Cheating]]
|-
| [[Maximizing framerate]]
|-
| [[Tilesets]]
|-
| [[Modding Guide]]
|}

|-
| colspan="2" style="vertical-align: top" |

{| style="width: 100%; background: #ddd; border: 1px solid #777; border-left-color:#bbb; border-top-color:#bbb;"
|+ style="color: #fff; background: #999; border: 1px solid #777; border-left-color:#bbb; border-top-color:#bbb; padding: 0.2em 0.5em; text-align: center" | '''Links'''
|-
! style="text-align: left; padding: 0.1em 0.5em" | Forums:
| [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php Official Forums], [http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=19469&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a xkcd Thread], [http://www.gamingsteve.com/blab/index.php?topic=6350.0 GamingSteve Thread], [http://www.cracked.com/forums/topic/28476/dwarf-fortress Cracked Thread], [http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=106896 Penny-Arcade Thread], [http://dwarvenpassion.smfforfree3.com/index.php Dwarves with a Passion], [http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=763906 Facepunch Studios Thread], [http://forum.team17.com/showthread.php?t=30824 Team17 Forum Thread], [http://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/ Reddit], [http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2917631/ Something Awful], [http://www.xspore.com/community/dwarf-fortress/ xSpore], [http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/39309975/m/943000156931/p/1 Ars Technica]
|-
! style="text-align: left; padding: 0.1em 0.5em" | Blogs:
| [http://jreengusoccurring.blogspot.com/ Jreengus Occuring: A Dwarf Fortress blog], [http://dfc.smackjeeves.com/ Strike the Earth!]
|-
! style="text-align: left; padding: 0.1em 0.5em" | IRC Channels:
| [irc://irc.newnet.net/bay12games #bay12games] on newnet.net, [irc://irc.synirc.net/df #df] on synirc.net, [irc://irc.quakenet.org/DwarfFortress #DwarfFortress] on quakenet.org, [irc://irc.tellaerad.net/DF #DF] on tellaerad.net and [irc://irc.rizon.net/brofortress #brofortress] on rizon.net.
|-
! style="text-align: left; padding: 0.1em 0.5em" | Other Wikis:
| [http://www.dwarffortress.fr/wiki Le Wiki Français ], [http://dwarffortress.if.land.to/ The Japanese (日本語) Wiki ], [http://www.dfwk.ru The Russian Wiki ], [[Dwarf_Fortress_Italia| Wiki Italiano]]
|-
! style="text-align: left; padding: 0.1em 0.5em" | Useful Links:
| [http://mkv25.net/dfma/ Dwarf Fortress Map Archive], [http://dffd.wimbli.com/ Dwarf Fortress File Depot (DFFD)]
|-
|}

[[Category:Wiki]]

[[ru:Заглавная_страница]]

User talk:Jellyfishgreen

2010-01-11T23:34:14Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Strike the Earth */ new section

(Hi! You realize that, on that "water" discussion page, you responded to questions from August and July of last year? Not that I haven't done it too, just saying. The wiki really isn't the perfect place for specific Q&A anyway, unless it's something that addresses something missing in an article. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:51, 15 May 2009 (UTC) )

== "Defense" rewrite" ==

Hey. You had made the effort to comment on the defense guide - the final push to the basic re-organization is complete - 4 pages total, a General guide and overview ([[Defense guide]] rewrite), and 3 articles on specific design - layout and architecture ([[Defense design]]), traps ([[Trap design]]), and specific advice on organizing your military ([[Military design]])
Discussion has been under the [[Talk:Fortress defense]] page. I may have ramrodded the initial rewrite/re-organization, but I know I've left some weak spots and would appreciate a good critique and editor(s). --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:58, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

== Strike the Earth ==

A comic by Aguest
[http://dfc.smackjeeves.com/]

40d Talk:Carp

2010-01-07T11:04:34Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* King of the Animals? */ Pikemen?

==King of the Animals?==
[[Unicorn|There is another contender for the position of King of the Animals, and this one is land-based.]] --[[User:BDR|BDR]] 14:42, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Hmm, what about the other fish? sea lampreys? pike? etc? what about them? Do they just get shunted, and their named champions brushed aside?

:I was going to propose the eagles that seem untargetable as they fly in, grab a dwarf, then drop him from a dizzying height whereupon he spats into chunks on the ground.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 03:45, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

::Well, until Toady lets carp and elephants fight each other to settle this once and for all, perhaps carp should be King of the Sea and elephants King of the Land. Eagles can have King of the Air.--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 19:53, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:::Wait! I've just realized. Have you ever seen a carp and an elephant sitting at the same table?! NO! They're the same person! It makes so much sense. Everything fits. I have to go tell people... [[Special:Contributions/128.250.224.97|128.250.224.97]] 12:53, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

:::Hmm, wonder if you can have those eagles tamed. Dwarven air force anyone? --[[User:Frostedfire|frostedfire]] 10:02, 9 November 2007 (AEDT)

::::All the other types of hostile fish (e.g. longnose gar, pike, etc) are just as dangerous as carp, or were the last time I had a fort on a river infested by them (it was a "major river" which was only 4 or 5 tiles wide, had about 3 different kinds of hostile fish, and no carp). --[[User:SL|SL]] 12:06, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

:::::But "carp" sounds funnier than "pike". For example, take the phrase "My dwarf was just killed by pike!" as opposed to "My dwarf was just killed by carp!" ... Speaking of which, why can't numerous entities hold the "king of the beasts" titles at once? Some of the creatures are so similar that, in my eyes, it makes no sense to pick just one.... ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 02:28, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

::::::From Pike you logically get [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pikemen Pikemen]. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:04, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

==Biome/habitat==
It might be worth noting somewhere that you only seem to get "dangerous" fish if you have an actual river (or coastline?). If you only have a brook and murky pools, you get our old friends turtles and salmon who never attack or scare anyone. From what I can tell, salmon, turtles, and char seem to be classified as vermin, not creatures, so they don't freak out the dwarfs. The aquifer seems safe too, though that may depend on what other water sources are nearby.

Can anyone confirm or refute? -- [[User:Angela Christine|Angela Christine]] 19:32, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::From what I've seen, this is correct. While starting and abandoning several fortresses trying to get the handle of making machines and other devious devices, 5 out of 5 fortresses started next to brooks generated no dangerous fish, while 3 of the 4 started next to major rivers and 2 out of 2 started on the coast had my poor dwarves molested by those vile things. --[[User:TheUbie|TheUbie]] 01:57, 18 November 2007 (EST)

:::Brooks cannot contain fish because they don't exist on two z-levels, at least that's what I've seen. No fish. --[[User:Vanan|Vanan]] 00:52, 26 November 2007 (EST)

::::Brooks exist on z-levels the same way rivers do, however brook tiles are filled with rock which means no fish can be in them (and is why dwarves can walk on them). Channeling a brook so it shows 'real' water will cause it to occasionally get fish like all other pools of water, however large fish such as carp never seem to migrate onto the map so you won't get any of them, just the small 'vermin' fish. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 00:14, 5 December 2007 (EST)

:::::Brooks don't have "river" biome. Creatures (vermin included) are generated in biomes. That's why no goats spawn in your fortress, but olms do, if you have corridor near cave river. If you flooded entire river with magma, and then refilled it with water carp would probably respawn. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 17:25, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

:::::: Almost all fish do not scare dwarves, but undead versions do. [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 07:26, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

== Carp symbols ==

I was only curious, since the wiki article lacked a picture, and me and some others would like to know, what does the carp look like in game. Thank you for the help beforehand.
:Please do sign your edits with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. At any rate, the fish icon is best described as such: three quarters of an infinity sign. Plain meat has the same symbol. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 15:01, 2 April 2008 (EDT)
::I'd say it looks like an alpha sign. Almost all fishes are blue-colored because they count as underwater. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 17:25, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Salmon are pink though [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 06:44, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

== Butchering? ==

Has anyone managed to butcher a carp, and if so what do you get from it? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 15:01, 2 April 2008 (EDT)
:I've never managed it, but I've only had carp once. Next time I get them I'll cheat really fast and dam the river to see what I can do with the air-drowned carp afterwards.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 21:56, 2 April 2008 (EST)

== New Version ==

In the new version, I have had two fortresses right next to a river filled chock full of carp, and have yet to see a dwarf even get a scrape from one. Have they been toned down to more 'realistic' strength, or have I been obscenely lucky? --[[User:Mabmoro|Mabmoro]] 10:37, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

:Can you say what version it is? [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 06:43, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

::I dont recall the version number, but so far in v0.28.181.39f, I havent gotten it either. None of the more recent versions have had aggressive carp, unless they were floating skeleton carp.

::I also checked the raws- they're the same for damage... maybe its a hardcoded difference?--[[User:Mabmoro|mabmoro]] 12:50, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

::Rest assured, carp and other fish are still most certainly deadly. At least, at the time of the question. I can't confirm yet if 39e and 39f had any serious changes, but 39d still boasts deadly, deadly fish so I would assume the latter versions do as well.
It's just tricky. They don't always strike, and the dwarf actually has be standing right at the river's edge for the carp to take notice. Fisherdwarves, of course, fill this role quite nicely.

I've got a named carp floating in my river that's got about four kills under it's belt, as well as managed to catch and drag in a random mountain goat. That thing is evil incarnate... it won't even fall for my fishkilling trap. --[[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 02:10, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

:I had assorted fish types (gar, pike, lampreys, carp) in the river outside of my fortress. They managed to kill 3-4 dwarves before I could get some marksdwarves to take care of them. I can confirm that fish, carp included, are still aggressive in the latest version (as of this post). [[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 14:46, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

== Hunters ==

Can hunters ''kill'' carp? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 12:26, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
:Depends on if they're close enough to the water to aim at said carp. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:54, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
::Will they take it out of the water to return their kill? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 20:37, 15 November 2008 (EST)
:::In Adventurer mode, you need to be standing directly on top of an item in order to grab it. Since dwarves will refuse to path through water (except when they're already in it [and ESPECIALLY when they're swimming]), no. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:49, 15 November 2008 (EST)

== E-Z ==
so I just had a novice axedwarf slaughter a pond full of carp in 10 seconds, and then he drowned. I had another pool with a sturgeon, and this guy took 3 dwarves lives before the next killed him. The water than took his life. So why are carp given the honorable title of "king of the sea"? what makes them different from sturgeon and the like? They really aren't that scary, if you know how to deal with them.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 22:22, 24 December 2008 (EST)
:I'd say it's because of the ludicrousness. Sure, sturgeon are deadly -- deadly as any other toothy carnivore bigger than a bear. They earned their place in the food chain. Carp on the other hand are <em>cat-sized goldfish</em> that suck down dwarven children like unlucky flies. Pound for pound, carp win. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 20:48, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
::Some carp can get pretty big: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/article6737929.ece [[User:Iapetus|Iapetus]] 22:00, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

oh, and the guy who got the sturgeon was basically the same as the other, might have had a different attribute or something, but this was a fresh reclaim of a fresh fortress. (that I made to test using gear assemblies and the like, but then flooded it.)--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 22:24, 24 December 2008 (EST)

== Fighting like a cornered carp ==

Note that while carp found in murky pools seem to fiercely defend their territory<br />(believing themselves to be cornered), those that swim through rivers generally <br />prefer to flee from dwarves rather than fight.
Interesting observation - but should that read "flee from ''armed'' dwarves..."? Don't river-carp still predate on unarmed fisherfolk/etc when the opportunity presents itself?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:31, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
:I did a test in order to refute a claim made on the [[Fishing]] talk page (suggesting that carp were no longer dangerous) where I sent seven dwarves fishing by a carp-infested river - the carp (and pike and gar and sturgeons) would immediately swim away (while my dwarves would cancel fishing but then '''immediately''' resume - fishing is ultra high priority, for some reason), occasionally swimming in closer but then usually fleeing again, only rarely going in for an attack. However, once I tried the same with a murky pool containing several carp, each of the dwarves got torn to shreds almost instantly (the first one was reduced to 36 chunks and a severed lower left leg). Given that carp are not defined as predators, it makes sense that they were behaving like other animals such as elk and groundhogs, only attacking when provoked (or, in this case, cornered). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:28, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
::Good point - I'm convinced. But you should run the same experiment it with 1 dwarf, not 7, and a river. Animals sometimes can sense "the odds" if outnumbered. I have full confidence the outcome is predictable - but'' pro forma'' it should be run anyway to be thorough.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:04, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
:::When I did the experiment, I sent the dwarves fishing one by one. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 23:02, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

== Werewolf Vs Carp ==

After starting on a haunted map for the first time i have learned to fear carp even more than before. All it takes is a live werewolf in the base and a lot of dead ones floating in a pond with a couple of carp, said live wolf took down one of my drawves even with all starting seven set quickly to military and yet just a couple of the demonic (they must be) fish have slaughtered them left and right.
As i type this though i am getting revenge on those fish (and stealing them wolf bones :P) by draining their happy little pond, ive already made a few spare coffins just in case

P.S. im not a proficient wiki user so if i make mistakes let me know please and thank you :) --[[User:Shaded|Shaded]] 07:37, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Expedition leaders log Summer Year 243.. Leave the F***ing carp alone. All three dwarves sent to mine out the wall of the pond of the hell fish where taken under and eaten expedition was deemed a failure and we where foced to abandon our fortress --[[User:Shaded|Shaded]] 07:47, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

User:Jellyfishgreen/Railhead

2009-12-17T17:25:15Z

Jellyfishgreen:

''' Logistics: Railhead '''
'' RAILHEAD, a game of 1800's warfare with logistics ''

* Note that "Artillery/Scout/Infantry" in the previous idea could also translate to Napoleonic warfare (Risk, Little Wars).
* Among other things this translates the artillery ranges to a smaller scale (somewhere between direct cannon fire and the explosive shell)
* What if we tried focusing purely on an enjoyable "victory-through-logistics" simulation?
* Idea: Your armies on the front lines need a certain amount of resupply per day to fight effectively
* The actual army combat is either simplified enough to be manageable at the same time as your logistics, or handed off to an AI? Choice of 2 general's hats, or both?
* Also AI can run logistics, especially as enemy or in combat training.
* The opposition is similarly presented (France vs Prussia, say, or Redosia vs Bluegaria) ..Industrial Heartland vs Motherland...
* Turn-based and probably hex
* Auto-form between armies and nearest supply depot? No.
* Or always onus on player to place (?cheap cache) manually if expecting to hold a position? Yes.
* armies only resupply themselves when moved onto a cache/depot/base (/town scavenging/friendly army)
* Resources for the player: time, monetary cost (and attention)
* Money resource represented by War Chest.

== War Chest ==
* fixed for a given scenario? eg training
* receives updates * income from government, periodically
* or bonus-based eg capturing cities (or scenario ends if x captured)
* or could be designed out altogether, if Time is the resource
== Army ==
* Perhaps, like Risk or Hex Empire, not actually distinguishable as soldiers or artillery * generic army units, considered as soldiers.
* Reinforcements (bringing *soldiers* to the front) was actually key in Hex Empire
* Chief role is to fight at front.
* Side role to protect logistics ie supply dumps.
* Troops have a certain max troop strength & max carrying capacity & max morale.
* Bought? Or present in full strength at start and up to you to manage through the scenario?
* Approx scale: 1 infantry unit = 1 company (80 infantry? approx 60-200 historically) in 4 platoons
* 1 unit per hex, normally, unless passing through or melee
* Formations are important. What officer assists in keeping formations?
* every unit has a flag? insignia carried by ensign? or option for colour party morale booster - one per brigade affects all adjacent countrymen
* toy soldier art concepts.
=== Troop Strength ===
* Troops gain replacements ie automatically 'regenerate' when in supply, proportional to the rate of supply. Also reflects better food/better hospitals at the bigger bases.
* Defined max for each unit type, will only regen up to original max
* Stackable? see Combat.
=== Carrying Capacity ===
* Reflects how many supplies are actually carried by the troops when they leave the depot (staging area)
* armies only resupply themselves when moved onto a cache/depot/base (/town scavenging?/friendly army)
* or between adjacent armies? sharing supplies if sharing hex.
* captured enemy caches?
* Usage rate:
* Resupply rate:
* when supplies run out (or on approach to zero), starvation casualties mount
=== Morale ===
* raised ++ by victory
* lowered by casualties
* drops slowly when bored/idle (?weather) (except in a town * entertainment)
* increases slowly (to max) when >50% CC
* decreases slowly (to min) when <50% CC (&++ starvation or scrounging)
* automatic surrender rule when attacked, if certain conditions are true (recognize hopeless situation)
* such as: supply lines cut, no adjacent friendlies, neighbors have surrendered
* Prepare separate Morale table, with all possible modifiers, unique ID 000-999
=== Unit Types ===
* Infantry: move x, attacks adjacent hex, medium damage, medium defense
* Cavalry: move x*2, attacks adjacent hex, light damage/defense (the Scout/Skirmish role), +charge ability (like little-wars) (bonus negated if already in adjacent hex at start of move)
* Artillery: move x/3, attacks non-adjacent hex (ranged), heavy damage, low defense, retreat from cavalry charge/melee (abandoning guns)
=== Combat ===
* heh! Not the key point but it needs to make sense!
* For now throw in some borrowed Combat Results Table for attack/defense
* Moderated by terrain type, morale, cavalry charges, experience
* see free wargame links such as "march towards the sound of guns" or "cannonade". http://www.angelfire.com/games2/warpspawn/Can.html
* keeping att/def low and attrition low (except for drastic actions like melee) emphasizes supply bonuses and surrendering making the difference. (Like Little Wars, surrendering or retreating would happen before a total wipeout, even with overwhelming force.)
== Simultaneous Turn Resolution ==
* idea: like LSN, there is an "orders" phase then an "execution" phase
* units may find themselves caught out by unanticipated enemy movement eg same destination hex: melee
* Solium has same concept, PBEM but not simultaneous execution
* "orders" is closer to concept of the day.
== Limited Orders ==
* Limited number of orders available per turn(not all units can move) like Solium, HexCommand, Memoir44. Reduces micromanagement & raises strategic thinking requirements. Same restriction on enemy obviously.
* This may be linked to number of Commander units on the field (Brigadier Generals) or increased somewhat by purchasing them as a unit. Logically commanders could give extra orders to units they are in contact with at start of turn.

== Logistic Buildings ==
* able to set up bases? then move (or dismantle & rebuild) bases after advancing? "engineer" corps considered invisible except when actually building.
* Unlimited engineer corps * or another resource to manage/limiting factor on how many simultaneous road/base/bridge efforts?
* fortification upgrades? or existing? Bunkers (anti-siege), walls (anti-inf), wire/ditch (anti-cav), & new description automatic based on upgrades eg fortress
* Single-hex supply dumps might be in the centre of a 6-hex fortress (eg Halifax); might be a port, part of a town, city, etc.
* Map scale might be: a city, and outlying villages and farmland, rarely two cities would be close enough to be shown in entirety on same battle map?

=== Factories ===
* Begin with at least one: main source(s) of supply
* What makes new available? Where located: cities only?
* Capturable from enemy.
* flavor only: munitions, food, clothing (boots, beans, bullets)
* Actual production referred to generically as supplies. (supply units)
* Flavor: The Old Mill. (on a river of course) Pembrose Nitrates. Acme Bandages.
=== Supply Dumps ===
* Storage, like energy; supply buffers
* Cheaper(?existing buildings) if placed in cities
* 3 grades
# low: supply cache (?supply dump?): cheapest to build, low capacity
# (?medium low: supply dump? only if balance point needed)
# medium: supply depot: medium
# high: supply base (?centre?): high
* cost recovered (eg 60%) when dismantling
* upgradeable

== Logistic Routes ==
* Begin with a certain amount pre-existing between cities. IE historical roads.
* Placed (by player) between cities, or arbitrary points, ie building the ''network'' not the nodes
* must place supply nodes (buildings) as above.
* Road building required to upgrade routes, cost varies with length (hex by hex progress, managed by AI engineers)
* Upgrade in stages (1->2->3->4) or allow jumps (1->4)?
* When upgraded: try an option where all units switch to next type, or enough to give same equivalent capacity, if already in pool, and return to pool. Eg new road, return 4 mules to pool, take 2 carts from pool, (maybe player just clicks OK ?or can tweak default numbers to see new capacity before clicking OK)
* Reduces player micromanagement of results of previous decision to upgrade, by doing the logical. They can then add more units themselves.
* When all are removed from a route, gray out marker and/or remove highlight from route. (Road is still present, route marker, but no traffic.) Handle mule paths differently?
* Smart reconfig if new depot placed on existing route. (new autoassigned marker, etc)

== Logistic Units ==
* automoved by AI once placed on a route (click on route marker (RedBallExpress))
* automove at end of turn, allowing player override during turn?
* can be attacked directly by armies
* can be removed from a route and returned to a central 'pool' eg right-click on route marker.
* Sidebar "motor pool" display should show with labelled icons (& icon bar or fuel gauge) & numbers how many of each type are in use/total owned eg Mules 7/10, Carts 4/4. "Mule pool" heh. Horseheads with blinders. (+)(Buy) and (-)(Sell) buttons for each row. --what if more than 10? Scaling icons to represent a percentage rather than just 1? What does 20 overlapping small pixelated mule heads look like? Available units in highlight or border, in-use units lowlighted. See "Antarctic Colony" flash eg.
* Assume units can place immediately anywhere from pool, ie mules 'move' instantly from one side of the map to the other.
=== Types ===
Ranked by capacity (and susceptibility to damage) and terrain requirements; cost
* Pack Mule: Requires minimal/footpath (eg even into the mountains, but not straight up cliffs or rivers). (no wheels)
* Horse Cart: Requires dirt road, river ford, floating bridge (2 wheels)
* Wagon/Truck: Requires paved road, road bridge (4 wheels)
* Rail car : Requires rail track, station, railhead, rail bridge (8 wheels)
* How to represent >1 mule? >1 train car?
Optional: Waterways, canals, barges,
== Resupply rate Formula ==
Formula: Resupply rate = capacity of carriers * number of carriers * route length (?* fudge)
* Carriers will attempt to fully load themselves from supply depot/source
* Direction of flow (source->drain) is always heartland factory -> army in field
eg. army1 resupply = 3 pack mules over 7 kilometers

== Resultants ==
* when building or extending a railroad, placing cheap caches as you go allows you to reap benefit before reaching intended extent. '''Railhead'''
* Armies have a better chance of intercepting attacks on their depot if placed away from depot (out of supply?adjacent) & also you need to move out of supply to advance. Balance for player risk/reward.
* must game min/max scenarios ie what limits on infinite mules on one route?
* if not stackable * then solves this one: all armies stacked on one base. Defeat that! * cut rail line. Hit railcars with artillery. * what if all armies stacked on factory? No rail line.
== Loss Conditions ==
* armies wiped out. All armies wiped out. Recognize endgame.
* logistics wiped out. Recognize endgame if warchest empty.
* engineers wiped out. Recognize endgame if warchest empty.
== Win Conditions (Objectives) ==
* eliminate all enemy armies
* capture and hold all enemy cities
* training/scenario objectives: certain cities, certain factories, build x depots, connect city x by rail
* protect special units eg entertainers or VIPs
* surrender to revolutionary forces

== Strategies & Fun ==
* Keep your armies in supply to keep them alive! Rotate wounded to rear.
* Advance armies to capture cities * and bring up supply lines behind them.
* Upgrade routes (combat engineers) or dismantle, upgrade depots or dismantle
* Repair cut or bombed routes, bridges, chase away enemy! Keep "Red Ball Express" moving!
* Take over enemy supply depots (?and blow up to prevent recapture?)
* Take over enemy cities and factories to increase production (/gain new units?)
* Starve enemy armies by cutting rail lines, encircle and demolish them

== Linkys ==
Napoleon at War http://www.freeverse.com/mac/product/?id=9001
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/the-practical-art-of-moving-armies.htm

Free Rules selection
http://freewargamesrules.co.uk/index.php?page=napoleonic

http://www.kamikazewargames.com/index.htm

http://sourceforge.net/projects/wargame/ (Ogre3DJava, non-hex, nice map, compiled for Windows)
http://sourceforge.net/projects/sdlwargame/ (Utilities, 0.1, not updated since 2005)

== Glossary ==
glossary to have links into text of design document later.
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/wagonway
* lorry
* gurney
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/locomotive
* steamer
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/fusillier
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/grenadier
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/dragoon
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse-drawn_vehicle
* (2-wheeled Cart, 4-wheeled Wagon)
* Covered Wagon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conestoga_wagon
* Railhead http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Rail-Head
* http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/User:Jellyfishgreen/Railhead

--[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:43, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

User:Jellyfishgreen/Railhead

2009-12-15T11:46:56Z

Jellyfishgreen:

''' Logistics: Railhead '''
'' RAILHEAD, a game of 1800's warfare with logistics ''

* Note that "Artillery/Scout/Infantry" in the previous idea could also translate to Napoleonic warfare (Risk, Little Wars).
* Among other things this translates the artillery ranges to a smaller scale (somewhere between direct cannon fire and the explosive shell)
* What if we tried focusing purely on an enjoyable "victory-through-logistics" simulation?
* Idea: Your armies on the front lines need a certain amount of resupply per day to fight effectively
* The actual army combat is either simplified enough to be manageable at the same time as your logistics, or handed off to an AI? Choice of 2 general's hats, or both?
* Also AI can run logistics, especially as enemy or in combat training.
* The opposition is similarly presented (France vs Prussia, say, or Redosia vs Bluegaria) ..Industrial Heartland vs Motherland...
* Turn-based and probably hex
* Auto-form between armies and nearest supply depot? No.
* Or always onus on player to place (?cheap cache) manually if expecting to hold a position? Yes.
* armies only resupply themselves when moved onto a cache/depot/base (/town scavenging/friendly army)
* Resources for the player: time, monetary cost (and attention)
* Money resource represented by War Chest.

== War Chest ==
* fixed for a given scenario? eg training
* receives updates * income from government, periodically
* or bonus-based eg capturing cities (or scenario ends if x captured)
* or could be designed out altogether, if Time is the resource
== Army ==
* Perhaps, like Risk or Hex Empire, not actually distinguishable as soldiers or artillery * generic army units, considered as soldiers.
* Reinforcements (bringing *soldiers* to the front) was actually key in Hex Empire
* Chief role is to fight at front.
* Side role to protect logistics ie supply dumps.
* Troops have a certain max troop strength & max carrying capacity & max morale.
* Bought? Or present in full strength at start and up to you to manage through the scenario?
* Approx scale: 1 infantry unit = 1 company (80 infantry? approx 60-200 historically) in 4 platoons
* 1 unit per hex, normally, unless passing through or melee
* Formations are important. What officer assists in keeping formations?
* every unit has a flag? insignia carried by ensign? or option for colour party morale booster - one per brigade affects all adjacent countrymen
* toy soldier art concepts.
=== Troop Strength ===
* Troops gain replacements ie automatically 'regenerate' when in supply, proportional to the rate of supply. Also reflects better food/better hospitals at the bigger bases.
* Defined max for each unit type, will only regen up to original max
* Stackable? see Combat.
=== Carrying Capacity ===
* Reflects how many supplies are actually carried by the troops when they leave the depot (staging area)
* armies only resupply themselves when moved onto a cache/depot/base (/town scavenging?/friendly army)
* or between adjacent armies? sharing supplies if sharing hex.
* captured enemy caches?
* Usage rate:
* Resupply rate:
* when supplies run out (or on approach to zero), starvation casualties mount
=== Morale ===
* raised ++ by victory
* lowered by casualties
* drops slowly when bored/idle (?weather) (except in a town * entertainment)
* increases slowly (to max) when >50% CC
* decreases slowly (to min) when <50% CC (&++ starvation or scrounging)
* automatic surrender rule when attacked, if certain conditions are true (recognize hopeless situation)
* such as: supply lines cut, no adjacent friendlies, neighbors have surrendered
* Prepare separate Morale table, with all possible modifiers, unique ID 000-999
=== Unit Types ===
* Infantry: move x, attacks adjacent hex, medium damage, medium defense
* Cavalry: move x*2, attacks adjacent hex, light damage/defense (the Scout/Skirmish role), +charge ability (like little-wars) (bonus negated if already in adjacent hex at start of move)
* Artillery: move x/3, attacks non-adjacent hex (ranged), heavy damage, low defense, retreat from cavalry charge/melee (abandoning guns)
=== Combat ===
* heh! Not the key point but it needs to make sense!
* For now throw in some borrowed Combat Results Table for attack/defense
* Moderated by terrain type, morale, cavalry charges, experience
* see free wargame links such as "march towards the sound of guns" or "cannonade". http://www.angelfire.com/games2/warpspawn/Can.html
* keeping att/def low and attrition low (except for drastic actions like melee) emphasizes supply bonuses and surrendering making the difference. (Like Little Wars, surrendering or retreating would happen before a total wipeout, even with overwhelming force.)
== Simultaneous Turn Resolution ==
* idea: like LSN, there is an "orders" phase then an "execution" phase
* units may find themselves caught out by unanticipated enemy movement eg same destination hex: melee
* Solium has same concept, PBEM but not simultaneous execution
* "orders" is closer to concept of the day.
== Limited Orders ==
* Limited number of orders available per turn(not all units can move) like Solium, HexCommand, Memoir44. Reduces micromanagement & raises strategic thinking requirements. Same restriction on enemy obviously.
* This may be linked to number of Commander units on the field (Brigadier Generals) or increased somewhat by purchasing them as a unit. Logically commanders could give extra orders to units they are in contact with at start of turn.

== Logistic Buildings ==
* able to set up bases? then move (or dismantle & rebuild) bases after advancing? "engineer" corps considered invisible except when actually building.
* Unlimited engineer corps * or another resource to manage/limiting factor on how many simultaneous road/base/bridge efforts?
* fortification upgrades? or existing? Bunkers (anti-siege), walls (anti-inf), wire/ditch (anti-cav), & new description automatic based on upgrades eg fortress
* Single-hex supply dumps might be in the centre of a 6-hex fortress (eg Halifax); might be a port, part of a town, city, etc.
* Map scale might be: a city, and outlying villages and farmland, rarely two cities would be close enough to be shown in entirety on same battle map?

=== Factories ===
* Begin with at least one: main source(s) of supply
* What makes new available? Where located: cities only?
* Capturable from enemy.
* flavor only: munitions, food, clothing (boots, beans, bullets)
* Actual production referred to generically as supplies. (supply units)
* Flavor: The Old Mill. (on a river of course) Pembrose Nitrates. Acme Bandages.
=== Supply Dumps ===
* Storage, like energy; supply buffers
* Cheaper(?existing buildings) if placed in cities
* 3 grades
# low: supply cache (?supply dump?): cheapest to build, low capacity
# (?medium low: supply dump? only if balance point needed)
# medium: supply depot: medium
# high: supply base (?centre?): high
* cost recovered (eg 60%) when dismantling
* upgradeable

== Logistic Routes ==
* Begin with a certain amount pre-existing between cities. IE historical roads.
* Placed (by player) between cities, or arbitrary points, ie building the ''network'' not the nodes
* must place supply nodes (buildings) as above.
* Road building required to upgrade routes, cost varies with length (hex by hex progress, managed by AI engineers)
* Upgrade in stages (1->2->3->4) or allow jumps (1->4)?
* When upgraded: try an option where all units switch to next type, or enough to give same equivalent capacity, if already in pool, and return to pool. Eg new road, return 4 mules to pool, take 2 carts from pool, (maybe player just clicks OK ?or can tweak default numbers to see new capacity before clicking OK)
* Reduces player micromanagement of results of previous decision to upgrade, by doing the logical. They can then add more units themselves.
* When all are removed from a route, gray out marker and/or remove highlight from route. (Road is still present, route marker, but no traffic.) Handle mule paths differently?
* Smart reconfig if new depot placed on existing route. (new autoassigned marker, etc)

== Logistic Units ==
* automoved by AI once placed on a route (click on route marker (RedBallExpress))
* automove at end of turn, allowing player override during turn?
* can be attacked directly by armies
* can be removed from a route and returned to a central 'pool' eg right-click on route marker.
* Sidebar "motor pool" display should show with labelled icons (& icon bar or fuel gauge) & numbers how many of each type are in use/total owned eg Mules 7/10, Carts 4/4. "Mule pool" heh. Horseheads with blinders. (+)(Buy) and (-)(Sell) buttons for each row. --what if more than 10? Scaling icons to represent a percentage rather than just 1? What does 20 overlapping small pixelated mule heads look like? Available units in highlight or border, in-use units lowlighted. See "Antarctic Colony" flash eg.
* Assume units can place immediately anywhere from pool, ie mules 'move' instantly from one side of the map to the other.
=== Types ===
Ranked by capacity (and susceptibility to damage) and terrain requirements; cost
* Pack Mule: Requires minimal/footpath (eg even into the mountains, but not straight up cliffs or rivers). (no wheels)
* Horse Cart: Requires dirt road, river ford, floating bridge (2 wheels)
* Wagon/Truck: Requires paved road, road bridge (4 wheels)
* Rail car : Requires rail track, station, railhead, rail bridge (8 wheels)
* How to represent >1 mule? >1 train car?
Optional: Waterways, canals, barges,
== Resupply rate Formula ==
Formula: Resupply rate = capacity of carriers * number of carriers * route length (?* fudge)
* Carriers will attempt to fully load themselves from supply depot/source
* Direction of flow (source->drain) is always heartland factory -> army in field
eg. army1 resupply = 3 pack mules over 7 kilometers

== Resultants ==
* when building or extending a railroad, placing cheap caches as you go allows you to reap benefit before reaching intended extent. '''Railhead'''
* Armies have a better chance of intercepting attacks on their depot if placed away from depot (out of supply?adjacent) & also you need to move out of supply to advance. Balance for player risk/reward.
* must game min/max scenarios ie what limits on infinite mules on one route?
* if not stackable * then solves this one: all armies stacked on one base. Defeat that! * cut rail line. Hit railcars with artillery. * what if all armies stacked on factory? No rail line.
== Loss Conditions ==
* armies wiped out. All armies wiped out. Recognize endgame.
* logistics wiped out. Recognize endgame if warchest empty.
* engineers wiped out. Recognize endgame if warchest empty.
== Win Conditions (Objectives) ==
* eliminate all enemy armies
* capture and hold all enemy cities
* training/scenario objectives: certain cities, certain factories, build x depots, connect city x by rail
* protect special units eg entertainers or VIPs
* surrender to revolutionary forces

== Strategies & Fun ==
* Keep your armies in supply to keep them alive! Rotate wounded to rear.
* Advance armies to capture cities * and bring up supply lines behind them.
* Upgrade routes (combat engineers) or dismantle, upgrade depots or dismantle
* Repair cut or bombed routes, bridges, chase away enemy! Keep "Red Ball Express" moving!
* Take over enemy supply depots (?and blow up to prevent recapture?)
* Take over enemy cities and factories to increase production (/gain new units?)
* Starve enemy armies by cutting rail lines, encircle and demolish them

== Linkys ==
Napoleon at War http://www.freeverse.com/mac/product/?id=9001
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/the-practical-art-of-moving-armies.htm

Free Rules selection
http://freewargamesrules.co.uk/index.php?page=napoleonic

http://www.kamikazewargames.com/index.htm

http://sourceforge.net/projects/wargame/ (Ogre3DJava, non-hex, nice map, compiled for Windows)
http://sourceforge.net/projects/sdlwargame/ (Utilities, 0.1, not updated since 2005)

== Glossary ==
glossary to have links into text of design document later.
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/wagonway
* lorry
* gurney
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/locomotive
* steamer
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/fusillier
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/grenadier
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/dragoon
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse-drawn_vehicle
* (2-wheeled Cart, 4-wheeled Wagon)
* Covered Wagon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conestoga_wagon
* http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/User:Jellyfishgreen/Railhead

--[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:43, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

User:Jellyfishgreen/Railhead

2009-12-15T11:43:40Z

Jellyfishgreen:

= Logistics: Railhead =
RAILHEAD, a game of 1800's warfare with logistics

* Note that "Artillery/Scout/Infantry" in the previous idea could also translate to Napoleonic warfare (Risk, Little Wars).
* Among other things this translates the artillery ranges to a smaller scale (somewhere between direct cannon fire and the explosive shell)
* What if we tried focusing purely on an enjoyable "victory-through-logistics" simulation?
* Idea: Your armies on the front lines need a certain amount of resupply per day to fight effectively
* The actual army combat is either simplified enough to be manageable at the same time as your logistics, or handed off to an AI? Choice of 2 general's hats, or both?
* Also AI can run logistics, especially as enemy or in combat training.
* The opposition is similarly presented (France vs Prussia, say, or Redosia vs Bluegaria) ..Industrial Heartland vs Motherland...
* Turn-based and probably hex
* Auto-form between armies and nearest supply depot? No.
* Or always onus on player to place (?cheap cache) manually if expecting to hold a position? Yes.
* armies only resupply themselves when moved onto a cache/depot/base (/town scavenging/friendly army)
* Resources for the player: time, monetary cost (and attention)
* Money resource represented by War Chest.

== War Chest ==
* fixed for a given scenario? eg training
* receives updates * income from government, periodically
* or bonus-based eg capturing cities (or scenario ends if x captured)
* or could be designed out altogether, if Time is the resource
== Army ==
* Perhaps, like Risk or Hex Empire, not actually distinguishable as soldiers or artillery * generic army units, considered as soldiers.
* Reinforcements (bringing *soldiers* to the front) was actually key in Hex Empire
* Chief role is to fight at front.
* Side role to protect logistics ie supply dumps.
* Troops have a certain max troop strength & max carrying capacity & max morale.
* Bought? Or present in full strength at start and up to you to manage through the scenario?
* Approx scale: 1 infantry unit = 1 company (80 infantry? approx 60-200 historically) in 4 platoons
* 1 unit per hex, normally, unless passing through or melee
* Formations are important. What officer assists in keeping formations?
* every unit has a flag? insignia carried by ensign? or option for colour party morale booster - one per brigade affects all adjacent countrymen
* toy soldier art concepts.
=== Troop Strength ===
* Troops gain replacements ie automatically 'regenerate' when in supply, proportional to the rate of supply. Also reflects better food/better hospitals at the bigger bases.
* Defined max for each unit type, will only regen up to original max
* Stackable? see Combat.
=== Carrying Capacity ===
* Reflects how many supplies are actually carried by the troops when they leave the depot (staging area)
* armies only resupply themselves when moved onto a cache/depot/base (/town scavenging?/friendly army)
* or between adjacent armies? sharing supplies if sharing hex.
* captured enemy caches?
* Usage rate:
* Resupply rate:
* when supplies run out (or on approach to zero), starvation casualties mount
=== Morale ===
* raised ++ by victory
* lowered by casualties
* drops slowly when bored/idle (?weather) (except in a town * entertainment)
* increases slowly (to max) when >50% CC
* decreases slowly (to min) when <50% CC (&++ starvation or scrounging)
* automatic surrender rule when attacked, if certain conditions are true (recognize hopeless situation)
* such as: supply lines cut, no adjacent friendlies, neighbors have surrendered
* Prepare separate Morale table, with all possible modifiers, unique ID 000-999
=== Unit Types ===
* Infantry: move x, attacks adjacent hex, medium damage, medium defense
* Cavalry: move x*2, attacks adjacent hex, light damage/defense (the Scout/Skirmish role), +charge ability (like little-wars) (bonus negated if already in adjacent hex at start of move)
* Artillery: move x/3, attacks non-adjacent hex (ranged), heavy damage, low defense, retreat from cavalry charge/melee (abandoning guns)
=== Combat ===
* heh! Not the key point but it needs to make sense!
* For now throw in some borrowed Combat Results Table for attack/defense
* Moderated by terrain type, morale, cavalry charges, experience
* see free wargame links such as "march towards the sound of guns" or "cannonade". http://www.angelfire.com/games2/warpspawn/Can.html
* keeping att/def low and attrition low (except for drastic actions like melee) emphasizes supply bonuses and surrendering making the difference. (Like Little Wars, surrendering or retreating would happen before a total wipeout, even with overwhelming force.)
== Simultaneous Turn Resolution ==
* idea: like LSN, there is an "orders" phase then an "execution" phase
* units may find themselves caught out by unanticipated enemy movement eg same destination hex: melee
* Solium has same concept, PBEM but not simultaneous execution
* "orders" is closer to concept of the day.
== Limited Orders ==
* Limited number of orders available per turn(not all units can move) like Solium, HexCommand, Memoir44. Reduces micromanagement & raises strategic thinking requirements. Same restriction on enemy obviously.
* This may be linked to number of Commander units on the field (Brigadier Generals) or increased somewhat by purchasing them as a unit. Logically commanders could give extra orders to units they are in contact with at start of turn.

== Logistic Buildings ==
* able to set up bases? then move (or dismantle & rebuild) bases after advancing? "engineer" corps considered invisible except when actually building.
* Unlimited engineer corps * or another resource to manage/limiting factor on how many simultaneous road/base/bridge efforts?
* fortification upgrades? or existing? Bunkers (anti-siege), walls (anti-inf), wire/ditch (anti-cav), & new description automatic based on upgrades eg fortress
* Single-hex supply dumps might be in the centre of a 6-hex fortress (eg Halifax); might be a port, part of a town, city, etc.
* Map scale might be: a city, and outlying villages and farmland, rarely two cities would be close enough to be shown in entirety on same battle map?

=== Factories ===
* Begin with at least one: main source(s) of supply
* What makes new available? Where located: cities only?
* Capturable from enemy.
* flavor only: munitions, food, clothing (boots, beans, bullets)
* Actual production referred to generically as supplies. (supply units)
* Flavor: The Old Mill. (on a river of course) Pembrose Nitrates. Acme Bandages.
=== Supply Dumps ===
* Storage, like energy; supply buffers
* Cheaper(?existing buildings) if placed in cities
* 3 grades
# low: supply cache (?supply dump?): cheapest to build, low capacity
# (?medium low: supply dump? only if balance point needed)
# medium: supply depot: medium
# high: supply base (?centre?): high
* cost recovered (eg 60%) when dismantling
* upgradeable

== Logistic Routes ==
* Begin with a certain amount pre-existing between cities. IE historical roads.
* Placed (by player) between cities, or arbitrary points, ie building the ''network'' not the nodes
* must place supply nodes (buildings) as above.
* Road building required to upgrade routes, cost varies with length (hex by hex progress, managed by AI engineers)
* Upgrade in stages (1->2->3->4) or allow jumps (1->4)?
* When upgraded * try an option where all units switch to next type, or enough to give same equivalent capacity, if already in pool, and return to pool. Eg new road, return 4 mules to pool, take 2 carts from pool, (maybe player just clicks OK ?or can tweak default numbers to see new capacity before clicking OK) * Reduces player micromanagement of results of previous decision to upgrade, by doing the logical. They can then add more units themselves.
* When all are removed from a route, gray out marker and/or remove highlight from route. (Road is still present, route marker, but no traffic.) Handle mule paths differently?
* Smart reconfig if new depot placed on existing route. (new autoassigned marker, etc)

== Logistic Units ==
* automoved by AI once placed on a route (click on route marker (RedBallExpress))
* automove at end of turn, allowing player override during turn?
* can be attacked directly by armies
* can be removed from a route and returned to a central 'pool' eg right-click on route marker.
* Sidebar "motor pool" display should show with labelled icons (& icon bar or fuel gauge) & numbers how many of each type are in use/total owned eg Mules 7/10, Carts 4/4. "Mule pool" heh. Horseheads with blinders. (+)(Buy) and (-)(Sell) buttons for each row. --what if more than 10? Scaling icons to represent a percentage rather than just 1? What does 20 overlapping small pixelated mule heads look like? Available units in highlight or border, in-use units lowlighted. See "Antarctic Colony" flash eg.
* Assume units can place immediately anywhere from pool, ie mules 'move' instantly from one side of the map to the other.
=== Types ===
Ranked by capacity (and susceptibility to damage) and terrain requirements; cost
* Pack Mule: Requires minimal/footpath (eg even into the mountains, but not straight up cliffs or rivers). (no wheels)
* Horse Cart: Requires dirt road, river ford, floating bridge (2 wheels)
* Wagon/Truck: Requires paved road, road bridge (4 wheels)
* Rail car : Requires rail track, station, railhead, rail bridge (8 wheels)
* How to represent >1 mule? >1 train car?
Optional: Waterways, canals, barges,
== Resupply rate Formula ==
Formula: Resupply rate = capacity of carriers * number of carriers * route length (?* fudge)
Carriers will attempt to fully load themselves from supply depot/source
Direction of flow (source->drain) is always heartland factory -> army in field
eg. army1 resupply = 3 pack mules over 7 kilometers

== Resultants ==
* when building or extending a railroad, placing cheap caches as you go allows you to reap benefit before reaching intended extent. '''Railhead'''
* Armies have a better chance of intercepting attacks on their depot if placed away from depot (out of supply?adjacent) & also you need to move out of supply to advance. Balance for player risk/reward.
* must game min/max scenarios ie what limits on infinite mules on one route?
* if not stackable * then solves this one: all armies stacked on one base. Defeat that! * cut rail line. Hit railcars with artillery. * what if all armies stacked on factory? No rail line.
== Loss Conditions ==
* armies wiped out. All armies wiped out. Recognize endgame.
* logistics wiped out. Recognize endgame if warchest empty.
* engineers wiped out. Recognize endgame if warchest empty.
== Win Conditions (Objectives) ==
* eliminate all enemy armies
* capture and hold all enemy cities
* training/scenario objectives: certain cities, certain factories, build x depots, connect city x by rail
* protect special units eg entertainers or VIPs
* surrender to revolutionary forces

== Strategies & Fun ==
* Keep your armies in supply to keep them alive! Rotate wounded to rear.
* Advance armies to capture cities * and bring up supply lines behind them.
* Upgrade routes (combat engineers) or dismantle, upgrade depots or dismantle
* Repair cut or bombed routes, bridges, chase away enemy! Keep "Red Ball Express" moving!
* Take over enemy supply depots (?and blow up to prevent recapture?)
* Take over enemy cities and factories to increase production (/gain new units?)
* Starve enemy armies by cutting rail lines, encircle and demolish them

== Linkys ==
Napoleon at War http://www.freeverse.com/mac/product/?id=9001
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/the-practical-art-of-moving-armies.htm

Free Rules selection
http://freewargamesrules.co.uk/index.php?page=napoleonic

http://www.kamikazewargames.com/index.htm

http://sourceforge.net/projects/wargame/ (Ogre3DJava, non-hex, nice map, compiled for Windows)
http://sourceforge.net/projects/sdlwargame/ (Utilities, 0.1, not updated since 2005)

== Glossary ==
glossary to have links into text of design document later.
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/wagonway
* lorry
* gurney
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/locomotive
* steamer
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/fusillier
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/grenadier
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/dragoon
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse-drawn_vehicle
* (2-wheeled Cart, 4-wheeled Wagon)
* Covered Wagon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conestoga_wagon
* http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/User:Jellyfishgreen/Railhead

--[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:43, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

User:Jellyfishgreen/Railhead

2009-12-09T16:48:44Z

Jellyfishgreen: railroad/war ideas

Logistics: Railhead
RAILHEAD, a game of 1800's warfare with logistics

- Note that "Artillery/Scout/Infantry" in the previous idea could also translate to Napoleonic warfare (Risk,

Little Wars).
- Among other things this translates the artillery ranges to a smaller scale (somewhere between direct cannon fire

and the explosive shell)
- What if we tried focusing purely on an enjoyable "victory-through-logistics" simulation?
- Idea: Your armies on the front lines need a certain amount of resupply per day to fight effectively
- The actual army combat is either simplified enough to be manageable at the same time as your logistics, or

handed off to an AI? Choice of 2 general's hats, or both?
- Also AI can run logistics, especially as enemy or in combat training.
- The opposition is similarly presented (France vs Prussia, say, or Redosia vs Bluegaria) ..Industrial Heartland

vs Motherland...
- Turn-based and probably hex
- Auto-form between armies and nearest supply depot? No.
- Or always onus on player to place (?cheap cache) manually if expecting to hold a position? Yes.
- armies only resupply themselves when moved onto a cache/depot/base (/town scavenging/friendly army)
- Resources for the player: time, monetary cost (and attention)
- Money resource represented by War Chest.

== War Chest ==
- fixed for a given scenario? eg training
- receives updates - income from government, periodically
- or bonus-based eg capturing cities (or scenario ends if x captured)
- or could be designed out altogether, if Time is the resource
== Army ==
- Perhaps, like Risk or Hex Empire, not actually distinguishable as soldiers or artillery - generic army units,

considered as soldiers.
- Reinforcements (bringing *soldiers* to the front) was actually key in Hex Empire
- Chief role is to fight at front.
- Side role to protect logistics ie supply dumps.
- Troops have a certain max troop strength & max carrying capacity & max morale.
- Bought? Or present in full strength at start and up to you to manage through the scenario?
=== Troop Strength ===
- Troops gain replacements ie automatically 'regenerate' when in supply, proportional to the rate of supply. Also

reflects better food/better hospitals at the bigger bases.
- Defined max for each unit type, will only regen up to original max
- Stackable? see Combat.
=== Carrying Capacity ===
- Reflects how many supplies are actually carried by the troops when they leave the depot (staging area)
- armies only resupply themselves when moved onto a cache/depot/base (/town scavenging?/friendly army)
- or between adjacent armies? sharing supplies if sharing hex.
- captured enemy caches?
- Usage rate:
- Resupply rate:
- when supplies run out (or on approach to zero), starvation casualties mount
=== Morale ===
- raised ++ by victory
- lowered by casualties
- drops slowly when bored/idle (?weather) (except in a town - entertainment)
- increases slowly (to max) when >50% CC
- decreases slowly (to min) when <50% CC (&++ starvation or scrounging)
- automatic surrender rule when attacked, if certain conditions are true (recognize hopeless situation)
- such as: supply lines cut, no adjacent friendlies, neighbors have surrendered
- Prepare separate Morale table, with all possible modifiers, unique ID 000-999
=== Unit Types ===
* Infantry: move x, attacks adjacent hex, medium damage, medium defense
* Cavalry: move x*2, attacks adjacent hex, light damage/defense (the Scout/Skirmish role), +charge ability (like

little-wars) (bonus negated if already in adjacent hex at start of move)
* Artillery: move x/3, attacks non-adjacent hex (ranged), heavy damage, low defense, retreat from cavalry

charge/melee (abandoning guns)
=== Combat ===
- heh! Not the key point but it needs to make sense!
- For now throw in some borrowed Combat Results Table for attack/defense
- Moderated by terrain type, morale, cavalry charges, experience
- see free wargame links such as "march towards the sound of guns" or "cannonade".

http://www.angelfire.com/games2/warpspawn/Can.html
- keeping att/def low and attrition low (except for drastic actions like melee) emphasizes supply bonuses and

surrendering making the difference. (Like Little Wars, surrendering or retreating would happen before a total

wipeout, even with overwhelming force.)
== Simultaneous Turn Resolution ==
- idea: like LSN, there is an "orders" phase then an "execution" phase
- units may find themselves caught out by unanticipated enemy movement eg same destination hex: melee
- Solium has same concept, PBEM but not simultaneous execution
- "orders" is closer to concept of the day.
== Limited Orders ==
- Limited number of orders available per turn(not all units can move) like Solium, HexCommand, Memoir44. Reduces

micromanagement & raises strategic thinking requirements. Same restriction on enemy obviously.
- This may be linked to number of Commander units on the field (Brigadier Generals) or increased somewhat by

purchasing them as a unit. Logically commanders could give extra orders to units they are in contact with at start

of turn.

== Logistic Buildings ==
- able to set up bases? then move (or dismantle & rebuild) bases after advancing? "engineer" corps considered

invisible except when actually building.
- Unlimited engineer corps - or another resource to manage/limiting factor on how many simultaneous

road/base/bridge efforts?
- fortification upgrades? or existing? Bunkers (anti-siege), walls (anti-inf), wire/ditch (anti-cav), & new

description automatic based on upgrades eg fortress
- Single-hex supply dumps might be in the centre of a 6-hex fortress (eg Halifax); might be a port, part of a

town, city, etc.
- Map scale might be: a city, and outlying villages and farmland, rarely two cities would be close enough to be

shown in entirety on same battle map?

=== Factories ===
- Begin with at least one: main source(s) of supply
- What makes new available? Where located: cities only?
- Capturable from enemy.
- flavor only: munitions, food, clothing (boots, beans, bullets)
- Actual production referred to generically as supplies. (supply units)
- Flavor: The Old Mill. (on a river of course) Pembrose Nitrates. Acme Bandages.
=== Supply Dumps ===
- Storage, like energy; supply buffers
- Cheaper(?existing buildings) if placed in cities
- 3 grades
# low: supply cache (?supply dump?): cheapest to build, low capacity
# (?medium low: supply dump? only if balance point needed)
# medium: supply depot: medium
# high: supply base (?centre?): high
- cost recovered (eg 60%) when dismantling
- upgradeable

== Logistic Routes ==
- Begin with a certain amount pre-existing between cities. IE historical roads.
- Placed (by player) between cities, or arbitrary points, ie building the ''network'' not the nodes
- must place supply nodes (buildings) as above.
- Road building required to upgrade routes, cost varies with length (hex by hex progress, managed by AI engineers)
- Upgrade in stages (1->2->3->4) or allow jumps (1->4)?
- When upgraded - try an option where all units switch to next type, or enough to give same equivalent capacity,

if already in pool, and return to pool. Eg new road, return 4 mules to pool, take 2 carts from pool, (maybe player

just clicks OK ?or can tweak default numbers to see new capacity before clicking OK) - Reduces player

micromanagement of results of previous decision to upgrade, by doing the logical. They can then add more units

themselves.
- When all are removed from a route, gray out marker and/or remove highlight from route. (Road is still present,

route marker, but no traffic.) Handle mule paths differently?
- Smart reconfig if new depot placed on existing route. (new autoassigned marker, etc)

== Logistic Units ==
- automoved by AI once placed on a route (click on route marker (RedBallExpress))
- automove at end of turn, allowing player override during turn?
- can be attacked directly by armies
- can be removed from a route and returned to a central 'pool' eg right-click on route marker.
- Sidebar "motor pool" display should show with labelled icons (& icon bar or fuel gauge) & numbers how many of

each type are in use/total owned eg Mules 7/10, Carts 4/4. "Mule pool" heh. Horseheads with blinders. (+)(Buy) and

(-)(Sell) buttons for each row. --what if more than 10? Scaling icons to represent a percentage rather than just

1? What does 20 overlapping small pixelated mule heads look like? Available units in highlight or border, in-use

units lowlighted. See "Antarctic Colony" flash eg.
- Assume units can place immediately anywhere from pool, ie mules 'move' instantly from one side of the map to the

other.
=== Types ===
Ranked by capacity (and susceptibility to damage) and terrain requirements; cost
- Pack Mule: Requires minimal/footpath (eg even into the mountains, but not straight up cliffs or rivers)
- Horse Cart: Requires dirt road, river ford, floating bridge
- Truck: Requires paved road, road bridge
- Rail car : Requires rail track, station, railhead, rail bridge
- How to represent >1 mule? >1 train car?
Optional: Waterways, canals, barges,
== Resupply rate Formula ==
Formula: Resupply rate = capacity of carriers * number of carriers * route length (?* fudge)
Carriers will attempt to fully load themselves from supply depot/source
Direction of flow (source->drain) is always heartland factory -> army in field
eg. army1 resupply = 3 pack mules over 7 kilometers

== Resultants ==
- when building or extending a railroad, placing cheap caches as you go allows you to reap benefit before reaching

intended extent. '''Railhead'''
- Armies have a better chance of intercepting attacks on their depot if placed away from depot (out of supply?

adjacent) & also you need to move out of supply to advance. Balance for player risk/reward.
- must game min/max scenarios ie what limits on infinite mules on one route?
- if not stackable - then solves this one: all armies stacked on one base. Defeat that! - cut rail line. Hit

railcars with artillery. - what if all armies stacked on factory? No rail line.
== Loss Conditions ==
- armies wiped out. All armies wiped out. Recognize endgame.
- logistics wiped out. Recognize endgame if warchest empty.
- engineers wiped out. Recognize endgame if warchest empty.
== Win Conditions (Objectives) ==
- eliminate all enemy armies
- capture and hold all enemy cities
- training/scenario objectives: certain cities, certain factories, build x depots, connect city x by rail

== Strategies & Fun ==
- Keep your armies in supply to keep them alive! Rotate wounded to rear.
- Advance armies to capture cities - and bring up supply lines behind them.
- Upgrade routes (combat engineers) or dismantle, upgrade depots or dismantle
- Repair cut or bombed routes, bridges, chase away enemy! Keep "Red Ball Express" moving!
- Take over enemy supply depots (?and blow up to prevent recapture?)
- Take over enemy cities and factories to increase production (/gain new units?)
- Starve enemy armies by cutting rail lines, encircle and demolish them

== Linkys ==
Napoleon at War http://www.freeverse.com/mac/product/?id=9001
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/the-practical-art-of-moving-armies.htm

Free Rules selection
http://freewargamesrules.co.uk/index.php?page=napoleonic

http://www.kamikazewargames.com/index.htm

http://sourceforge.net/projects/wargame/ (Ogre3DJava, non-hex, nice map, compiled for Windows)
http://sourceforge.net/projects/sdlwargame/ (Utilities, 0.1, not updated since 2005)

== Glossary ==
glossary to have links into text of design document later.
wagonway
lorry
gurney
locomotive
steamer
fusillier
grenadier
dragoon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse-drawn_vehicle
(2-wheeled Cart, 4-wheeled Wagon)
Covered Wagon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conestoga_wagon
http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/User:Jellyfishgreen/Railhead

User:Jellyfishgreen

2009-08-18T10:28:57Z

Jellyfishgreen: Fifteen dwarvish ways to die

Poemcrafter of [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=28883 A DF Night Before Christmas]

Proud mastermind of "[http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/User:Jellyfishgreen/Fortress_Paintrag Fortress Paintrag]" in v0.23.

''my dwarves be dancing''

Put that [[Adamantine]] back where it came from, or so help me ''(or so help me!)''

''If you could read my mind love '' <br>
''What a tale my thoughts could tell '' <br>
''Just like an old time movie '' <br>
'' 'Bout a ghost from a wishing well '' <br>
''In a castle dark, '' <br>
''Or a fortress strong '' <br>
''With chains upon my feet -- Gordon Lightfoot.'' <br>

The idea pile
# legendary miners in sieging armies? Countertunneling, as in WW1
# Shipyard (workshop) longships, oars from the carpenter
# rail road = metal bar + wood sleepers; carts can convert to rail carts for ore haulers/wagons for reduced travel energy cost
# Backpacks or slings for infants. Currently infants are hand-held, ''very much'' like weapons.
# PICK UP YOUR &*&* SOCKS! I'd like this more than dwarves with boiling gold for blood.
# Some way to put a squad on/off duty from the X squad menu, with +/- cycling through all squads in order.

== Fortress 1: Ratman Island ==
A few notes on my current fortress, "PlaitTorches", set on a volcanic tropical island with an existing cave system crawling with ratmen. Thus, Ratman Island, Sept 2008-. Version '40d.
# So I've set up home in a sandy hill above a magma vent. Down deep there's a layer of obsidian, and I realized that if I site all the noble rooms there, I have smoothable and highly valued walls, and an excuse to mine out all that obsidian for furniture and trade goods and swords. If there's an accident, the noble rooms will be flooded with magma. So, win-win all around.
# Used the Full Plate+Shield+Wrestling training system. Quickly my Sheriff became an Elite then Legendary wrestler, and the cleansing of the ratman cave system was a non-climax as his wrestler squad was not significantly challenged. No dwarf deaths. We have, however, lost about 5 dwarves since introducing edged-weapon training.
# Planning use of the surface magma vent was scrapped when we found a hidden subsurface pool. Magma furnaces working great, lots of glass production, lots of obsidian, but ore is rare. We were glad to find two copper veins but import everything else. Once the Mayor demanded Brass; I melted two zinc cages for alloy but a crazy dwarf nipped in and made hanging Zinc rings on his artifact out of my precious reclaimed bar...
# Draining one vent into another to create a small magma-fall is inadvisable. I don't know if it counts as overflow but small 1-deep waves of lava formed on the surface and rippled around. Eventually some washed up on the wrong shore, burning down a kiln and we lost a craftdwarf. We reclaimed the vent with two controlled water floods, one to seal the magma-fall and one to counteract the waves by damping the furnace area.
# More successful was our dining-room waterfall. Windmill-driven pumps bring seawater up 3 levels to an existing (saltwater) pond system; a manual pump brings it up one more level before dropping it into the dining room where grates lead to the ocean-return drain. The floor is permanently damp but the dwarves are permanently enriched.
# Surprisingly we do have contact with the Dwarven civilization for trade (it's an island) but no other, and little wildlife except turtles and snailmen. Lots of trees for the taking, though, and no Elf retribution.
# A titan showed up in our fourth year; I activated the military once its intentions were clear. It chased a craftdwarf then killed a peasant holding her baby, trapped by a channel. Combined wrestlers and marksdwarves brought it down seconds later. The baby survived, Very Unhappy.
# 4th year stats: Pop.95. 5 Artifacts, mostly Crafts (obsidian + obsidian amulets etc). 8 Guards, half legendary.
# Constructed a ten-tile-wide pattern of a Fat Crescent moon, "the symbol of the local dwarven government", in white rock and green glass on the flat tidal shelf. My first megaproject.
# About the fifth year I got tired of glassmaking and abandoned the fortress. I now realize I should have changed glassmaking (and sandbagging) to be the principal industry, and created a megaproject of a five-story dwarf statue in green glass blocks and obsidian (with a clear glass beard) on a floating platform in the ocean. Maybe I'll reclaim and try that. Also "Orange Ruffy" - obsidian columns to the bottom of the ocean.

== Fortress 2: Mistytowers ==
This one's on a mountain spur just where it meets the forest. Founded in 205. Pleasing features include the spur mainly made out of limestone and bauxite, and a small hill made of magnetite! Naturally, steel production is now our most significant industry. No coal or magma so I've got the Charcoal task on Repeat and a constant stream of lumber to the stockpile. Year 3, pop 41, 2 babies, 2 goblin ambushes, 3 civs trading, wild horses.
# Founding civ is "The Friendly Tourists". My offshoot, looking for trouble, is "The Armored Toe-Tours". :)
# Borrowing part of a lovely "cathedral" design found on the DFMA for the main living quarters.
# First goblin ambush was dealt quite efficiently by the Masked Dwarven Wrestling Squad. Second ambush took out a puppy and a wardog before their owner (a quickly drafted woodcutter) showed up, quite upset. She beheaded one and be-halved another; I presume it was therapeutic. I assigned her a new pet wardog as additional happy thoughts. Poor gal loves her dogs for their loyalty.
# Unfortunately the woodcutter was caught and killed in a third ambush before the military could arrive. She was one of the founding 7, too.
* Steel production on repeat, and carving part of the mountain spur into a limestone tower 20 squares a side. Still compensating for loss of woodcutter(s) and wondering how many ambushes it takes to make a siege. Setting up ballistas and steel spikes in anticipation of [[fun]].
* 209: Sieging elite archers CAN take down your marksdwarves, even shooting up two Z-levels and through fortifications. Ouch. Patrol routes should not be considered safe combat positions. On the plus side I got a Legendary Armorer who produced an [[artifact]] Pig Iron Chain Mail. In real life, this would be near impossible due to the brittleness of pig iron. But it has spikes of steel and green zircon, bands of goblin bone, and an image of a bat in Ash wood. I want to try and draw this thing. It's obviously the BatSuit.

== Fifteen dwarvish ways to die ==
(all hail [Dwarf Fortress], in which all of these are possible)

#angry elephants after wounding
#zombie elephants in the moat
#mandrills at the harvest party
#goblin invasions due to butterfly effect
#accidental sparring decapitations
#tantruming on bridge. Destroying bridge over chasm. Falling to death
#standing in front of ballista
#starving due to overwork; neglecting to harvest
#burning from burning corpses
#angering the forest people who sing to the trees and are excellent marksmen
#making a cave too big; caving in
#not getting the perfect materials demanded by your secret project. moping on the riverbank for days. Washed away by spring flood.
# digging Too Deep. [Balrog][Things man was not meant to know] [At the Earth's Core: Chapter 1]

Bloodline Talk:Oceanside Year 6

2009-06-16T20:47:38Z

Jellyfishgreen: Macabre mood?

I'd love to see the descriptor for "Malign the Dreadful Shove", myself - was that a Macabre mood artifact? --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 20:47, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Metal industry

2009-06-13T21:37:49Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* One term to rule them all, one term to bind them... */ not forgetting coal bars :)

For now, how about we redirect this page to metalsmith forge? --[[User:Nightwind|Nightwind]] 04:09, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

:I think a lot of what is at metalsmith forge really belongs here. I am trying to sort something out similar to [[clothing industry]]; I will have a good look at what is in that page vs what is at [[Clothier's shop]] and do something much the same for this page and [[metalsmith's forge]].[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:22, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

::G has it right - there are several other "X Industry" type pages, this should be roughly modeled on those. We're trying to move away from having pages do double duty simply because we have no better place to put the info - there's enough info that can go into this that it will fill its own article. I also think that graphic could get reworked and cleaned up, made more clear and legible, and complete - like adding flux for one, and the 4 fuel options, and perhaps re-ordering (alphabetizing?) the materials at the top. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:32, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Thanks. I have noticed that "power" pretty much refers to wind or water power, not "heat energy" so there is a section here that needs re-titling; the metal industry needs '''heat energy''' either from wood, "coal" (various types) or magma. [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 14:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

== One term to rule them all, one term to bind them... ==

replaced ("fuel") with refined coal - which is what is needed at a magma smelter.
The event cancel message says "Needs refined coal"
Well, the cancel message says that. However, if you try to queue up a task and have no fuel, you get the message "Must have '''coal fuel'''". (See [[Refined_coal#In-game_usage]]). And now your find in stockpiles - '''coal'''. Let's face it - this ''sucks''. We have 6 terms that refer to one in-game material - '''coal fuel, refined coal, coal, charcoal, coke''', and the out-of-game term "'''fuel'''" (and that doesn't count '''bituminous coal''', which adds to the headache). Personally, I like "fuel" because it is clear, distinct, generic, and non-confusing for a newbie. If they hit the link, they go to the [[Refined coal]] page, and dive into the confusion and get over it like we all had to.<br />
I'd like to see "fuel" get used consistently unless referring to a specific in-game context. (I'd ''rather'' use in-game terms exclusively - but there are 5 1/2 of them!) If we use 1 in-game term over another, that will just create newbie confusion - it certainly did for me when I started out. I expressed these thoughts when I re-wrote the Refined Coal article after consulting with several wiki vets. [[Talk:Refined_coal#Rewrite_-_.26_.22fuel.22]]--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:27, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

:all-right, having said all that.
:Can you now address the contradictions? It says "Magma versions only require an open floor below them". Try making iron without "refined coal". YOU CAN'T. But it isn't there as a fuel, it is there to react with the oxygen in the ferrous oxide, make CO2 and leave behind iron.

:Honestly: the wiki won't make sense on this issue till toady gets rid of in-game contradictory terminology. I'm sure it's "on the list".[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:57, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

::Can I address them? As you say, not until Toady does. "Carbon-based reaction component"? "High-carbon-content multi-purpose material"? Yet another unsatisfactory term? We've been dealt 6 bad cards, and ''have'' to play one of them. In the main article, "fuel" was the one I chose to act as the umbrella term, the least of the evils imo. And while "fuel" is not being "burnt" in the steel-related reactions, the substance is identical - and ~is~ the default term commonly used on the forums. That's where I learned it, that's what's used, not any of the more complex/confusing ones. I use "starter fluid" to clean my carburetor - not trying to start the car, but it's still called starting fluid, not "carburetor cleaner" (unless bought as that, then you pay twice as much!) Same with "nail polish remover" and "acetone" - and we've got a similar situation here. The fact that we're doing it consciously rather than by social linguistic evolution just makes it feel more awkward. (And I guess that's why I felt it needed more than a throw-away comment.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:40, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

: Not to clear up the confusion at all, but in the 2D wiki it was "coal bars". You refined them from coal ore, keeping the ore->bars rule. "Coke" was the real-world term. It is purified carbon, in the end. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 21:37, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

40d:Glass

2009-06-09T18:59:11Z

Jellyfishgreen: tidying as per discussion comments

[[Glass]] is a translucent material with widespread uses. Glass is manufactured at a [[glass furnace]] or [[magma glass furnace]]. There are three types of glass: Green, Clear and Crystal, each with different colour and value.

Green glass can be churned out in massive amounts if produced at a magma furnace, because there are no ingredients other than sand used and sand sources cannot be depleted. This makes it a valuable resource for construction; it is as valuable as limestone, but can be used for more things. Green glass goods are manufactured from one [[bag]] of any [[sand]].

Clear glass uses both a bag of sand and one [[pearlash]].<br>

Crystal glass is manufactured from one rough [[rock crystal]] and one pearlash.

In order to produce glass, sand must be gathered in bags using a task available at a glass furnace. You must designate a sand-gathering zone from the ({{k|i}})-menu in order for this task to succeed. Gathering sand requires [[item hauling]] whilst moving sand bags to stockpiles requires [[furniture hauling]]. You will need spare bags in order to collect sand.

Apparently you cannot import sand bags or glass at present.

==Products==
Glass can be manufactured into a wide variety of products:

* Raw green glass makes an excellent training material for practicing the [[gem cutting]] skill, given its abundance.
* Raw glass is a frequent request of dwarves undergoing a [[strange mood]].
* Glass can be formed into [[block]]s which can then be used for most building purposes.
* Glass can be used to manufacture a number of [[furniture]] items, including [[armor stand]]s, [[chest|boxes]], [[floodgate]]s, [[hatch cover]]s, [[grate]]s, [[door|portals]], [[statue]]s, [[table]]s, [[throne]]s and [[weapon rack]]s.
* Glass can be converted into [[trap]] components, such as [[spiked ball]]s or [[giant axe blade]]s.
* Glass windows can be made at a [[glass furnace]] as an alternative to making windows from gems.
* [[Cage]]s may be made from glass. A glass cage is called a terrarium, and is unique among cages in that it may be converted into an [[aquarium]] using the an option in the building tasks/prefs menu{{key|q}}{{key|w}}. Terraria may not be used for justice applications.
* Glass [[vial]]s are used in some types of plant processing, making extracts, and three clear glass vials are required to build an [[alchemist's laboratory]].
* Glass can be formed into a variety of crafts.

Glass items often have unique names:
* A glass [[chest]] is called a box.
* A glass [[door]] is called a [[portal]].
* A glass [[pipe]] is called a tube.
* A glass [[cage]] is called a terrarium.

==Material value==
* Green glass has a value of 2.
* Clear glass has a value of 5.
* Crystal glass has a value of 10.

The damage value of green glass weapons is 50%.

==See also==
*[[Workshops_FAQ#How_do_I_make_glass.3F|How do I make glass?]]
*[[Glass Industry]]

[[Category:Materials]]

40d Talk:Tentacle demon

2009-06-08T22:01:21Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Everyone wants one for Halloween */ new section

Is this a joke?{{nosignature|Amenos42}}
:Yes and no. It is a real creature. It is also a joke. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 18:31, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

== Goblin control? ==

How is that possible? Is it hard coded, or a result of the prefstring, or just because it's a demon--or is it something else? <small>– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Midna|Midna]]</small>
:Pleeease sign your edits using <tt><nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki></tt>. At any rate, it's because it's a demon, likely the [DEFENDER] tag. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 23:33, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

::Sorry, sometimes I forget...also, in the creatures I modded in, I haven't seen an admirer of these so far. Also, the engraving in the tentacle demon pits show races with the [INTELLIGENT] tag commiting 'depraved acts' upon other/the same race(s), or alone. [[User:Midna|Midna]] 02:02, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Are you sure you gave your modded creature [FANCIFUL][SPHERE:THRALLDOM][CAN_SPEAK][CAN_LEARN][[PERSONALITY:IMMODERATION:(...)][GENPOWER:x] tags? It's possible that some of those influence creature's ability to rule lesser races. Also, 'depraved acts' seem to be result of [SPHERE:DEPRAVITY] tag. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 06:15, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

::::No, I don't want them as rulers--but I'm curious, because it'd be interesting to make one/some 'ruler' creatures later on. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 11:34, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Tentacle Zerg==

These things seem to uh...multiply rather quickly. I send 3 squads down to go take care of 3 of them, then it's 5, and now it's 8. It's been several minutes now... [[User:Archaeologist|Archaeologist]]
:They ambush. You're getting zerged by ultralisks, baby.

== Tentacle demon pits and a strange case ==

Right, this place hasn't seen much activity, so I'm going to expand upon this and just give a little curious situation I had ever so long ago, and expand upon my previous quote:
... Also, the engraving in the tentacle demon pits show races with
the [INTELLIGENT] tag commiting 'depraved acts' upon other/the
same race(s), or alone. ...
So, in that case, gather 'round the campfire, for I have a rather long story to tell.

Before I continue, I'd just like to say that Toady has done an excellent job of adding atmosphere to these areas.
Anyway, I breached the demon's lair, etcetera etcetera. The usual. I mined for a bit, then broke into the cavity which contained the babbling idiots and numerous, generally insane (previously) sentient beings.

Slightly creeped out, but quite interested--this being my first encounter--I quickly backed off after hastily surveying the area, making sure to build up a bit of an army before going back.

Upon my return, I looked over everything. The first thing which caught my eye was possibly the fact that the place was ''filthy''. There were puddles of, if I recall correctly, 'unidentified yellow liquid'/'unidentified brown liquid' or something to that effect. Yet, disgusted, I moved on.

'Unidentified white liquid'.

First thought:

"Oh my god, they ''raped everything in here.''"

Second thought:

"Toady's a bit naughty, isn't he."

Third, final thought (which was a bit more DF-oriented):

"Oh ''shit'', that must mean tentacle demons."

I scrambled to get my army into the area as fast as possible to secure it; then went back to my examination. I didn't find much else, aside from around twenty engravings which showed sentient beings commiting 'depraved acts' upon others (or on their own, which, presumably, indicated a solo act); what made this notable was the fact that this group of engravings ''also included creatures I had added myself''.

Undeterred, I continued examining the room, ignoring the nigh-literal ''sea'' of filth on the floor.
No, I'm not referring to anything specific. It was just labelled 'filth'. I didn't have much time to ponder this, because I found a staircase.

Leading downwards.

'''Into the depths of hell.'''

Alright, maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration, but it led downwards to another chamber, which, after a bit of searching, coughed up another staircase.

This led into a chamber with a few magma pools.

And I was officially freaked by this, because I knew what it meant. Unlike the two previous chambers, there were no living beings here.

''Yet.''

That was soon to change; one of my soldiers found the pits by going down a second staircase that I hadn't noticed. Something like 50 demons were ejected from the glowing pits, ''directly into the midst of my army.''
To follow was an epic battle, but that I shan't recount here. Rather, I'll state what happened when I tried to 'reclaim' the fortress, via adventure mode.

I headed to the door, taking note of how the babbling insane creatures had been able to escape. I slaughtered them and entered the ruined gates of my once proud citadel.

I eventually managed to get to the underground river/waterfall that I had discovered earlier; I had tried--oh, believe me, I'd tried--to get to the glowing pit for revenge, but my backpack was already crammed full of adamantine ore, and I figured I'd see if my secret exit was still in working order, then come back with some equipment created for demon slaying (or at least goblin slaying).

Anyway, when I got there, I was immediately assaulted. Another epic battle ensued, this one ending not in my own dismembered forces laying amongst a fieldful of slippery, detached tentacles...

...but with around ten or so snakemen and olmmen's corpses in the water and on the ground around me.

The river was drenched with their blood, mixed with my own, when I finished. Not like it really mattered. I fell in soon afterwards.

The river rushed me downstream, faster and faster...

...faster...

...faster still...

''I should have reached the waterfall'', I thought to myself. Is it blocked by something?

Splash. Whoosh. The sound of whistling wind in my ears.

Another splash.

It was just a fall to the next level lower, thankfully. I wasn't injured, just thrust under the water.

Wait. The second level of the river?

...First level was the place I found, second level...was...? Second level was...was...

...''The waterfall!!''

I was pushed along until I reached it, but I noticed that about one level down there was a platform, since the waterfall's path into the depths wasn't quite uniform.

It looked like I'd land on it.

I was swept out for the second time.

Splash. Whoosh. More whistling wind.

I hit the ground with a sickening crunch. I'd made it, but I'd broken a leg in the process. Or did I break two? I couldn't tell.

I slipped almost instantly after impact.

Splash. Whoosh. No more whistling.

I fell to my assumed death in the chasm that the second waterfall fed into.

~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 04:22, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, tentacle demons are... nasty thing. And yes, given the abudance of "unknown substance" in their lair, and the fact that, when you look at their inventory a lot of female human, elf and dwarves have a "unknown substance smear" on their "lower body", that substance must be what you've thinked of. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 14:03, 16 February 2009 (EST)

== Everyone wants one for Halloween ==

Just a note: an Exceptional Tentacle demon skull [[Totem]] is worth 1000, while an equal-quality Elf skull totem is only worth 50. In other news, adamantine is plentiful and life is good. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 22:01, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

40d:Demon

2009-06-08T21:48:08Z

Jellyfishgreen: more demonology

{{spoiler}}

[[Image:Mountain_air_pocket.JPG|thumb|right|250px|Here, demons appear as red and green ampersands.]]

A Demon is an evil fast moving creature that will either severely wound or kill your [[dwarf|dwarves]] and [[animal]]s. Their attacks include projectile fireballs and hand to hand combat. Most are living and as such are especially vulnerable to weapons with high critical boost such as [[spear]]s and [[crossbow]] [[bolt]]s.

Demons are immune to [[Trap#Stone-fall_Trap|stone-fall traps]], [[Trap#Weapon_Trap|weapon traps]], [[Trap#Cage_Trap|cage traps]] and will destroy your [[door]]s and [[floodgate]]s. At least some of them are able to fly and survive under [[Water|water]] and [[Magma|magma]].

==Defenses against Demons==

*Demons, as large, living enemies, are somewhat susceptible to piercing damage - [[spear]] and [[arrow]]s work well. A well trained, well equipped [[speardwarf]] can mix it up with frog and [[tentacle demon]]s, however will likely not get the chance to close with a [[Spirit_of_fire|Spirit of Fire]] before being immolated by the Spirit's ranged [[fire]] attack. Spirits also lack most vital organs that spears target in any case. Spirits can be reliably brought down by [[marksdwarf|marksdwarves]], but expect losses on both sides of that matchup. You can signifigantly improve your survival rate by placing the marksdwaves behind [[fortification]]s - the incoming fireballs have a chance to not penetrate the fortifications, which is higher the farther away the demon fired from.

*[[Siege weapon]]s can be useful against demons. A [[ballista|ballista]] bolt will kill a demon, and a ballista fired down a narrow hallway channelling the demons into your field of fire will kill several. Use [[wall]]s and fortifications to give your siege crew some protection from fireballs, and remember your crew will panic and run once the demons get too close, which will happen ''quickly'' as the demons are quite fast.

*One effective anti-demon tactic is to equip your entire fortress with crossbows, quivers and bolts and order them all into 1-dwarf squads. Station every one dwarf squad on the same tile. The result should be a single tile capable of launching 60+bolts in seconds. Set a space 4-6 tiles closer to the demons as a meeting zone; spare animals will pile up there. In this method, any approaching demons will 'bump' into the horses and cats, and then be obliterated by incredible crossbow fire. Although eventually your defending creatures may be slaughtered, this tactic can allow you to survive demon pits with ease.

*One thing you '''shouldn't''' bother trying is crushing the demons under a [[drawbridge|drawbridge]]. This used to be a highly effective (so much so that it was considered an exploit by some players) tactic, but in recent version the demon will break your bridge rather than vice-versa.

*Demons aren't susceptible to standard traps, but using a [[support]] to cause a cave-in might kill them. They may, however, be vulnerable to [[cage trap]]s if you can find [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-881-trappinghfs some technique to knock them] [[unconscious]] first. Upright steel [[spike]]s linked to a lever (on repeat) works on everything - demons, refugees, migrants, pets - if they hold still long enough to be hit, or if you spike a large enough area.

==Demonology==

'''[[Demon]]''': The end boss. Only one of these will usually be released, leading a large number of "soldier" demons of the other three types (one type per pit). Larger and generally tougher than the other types of demons, they can also breath fire. The same type of demon that rules the goblin civilizations.
{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:DEMON]
[NAME:demon:demons:demonic]
[TILE:'&'][COLOR:4:0:1]
[MODVALUE:50]
[FANCIFUL][ENDING][POWER]
[FIREBREATH][FIREIMMUNE][LIKES_FIGHTING][MAGMA_VISION]
[FLIER]
[TRAPAVOID][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK]
[GENPOWER:5]
[BLOODTYPE:0]
[BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD][EVIL]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR][NOEXERT]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:terrifying features]
[BODY:HUMANOID:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:16]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:BURN][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[EQUIPS]
[FAT:3]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10095]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:ANXIETY:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:DEPRESSION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SELF_CONSCIOUSNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:VULNERABILITY:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ASSERTIVENESS:100:100:100]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:0:0]
[SPHERE:FIRE]
[SPHERE:DEATH]
[SPHERE:TORTURE]
}}

'''[[Frog demon]]''': Arguably the easiest demon. Powerful combatant and can swim.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:FROG_DEMON]
[NAME:frog demon:frog demons:frog demon]
[TILE:'&'][COLOR:2:0:1]
[MODVALUE:20]
[FANCIFUL][DEFENDER]
[TRAPAVOID][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK][FIREIMMUNE]
[AMPHIBIOUS][UNDERSWIM]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[GENPOWER:5]
[BLOODTYPE:0]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD][EVIL]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR][NOEXERT]
[PREFSTRING:impressive bellies]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:4FINGERS:4TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:12]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[NO_GENDER]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:0:0]
[SPHERE:MUCK]
[SPHERE:WATER]
[HOMEOTHERM:10040]
}}

'''[[Tentacle_demon|Tentacle Demon]]''': Corrupt intentions.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:TENTACLE_DEMON]
[NAME:tentacle demon:tentacle demons:tentacle demon]
[TILE:'&'][COLOR:5:0:1]
[MODVALUE:20]
[FANCIFUL][DEFENDER]
[TRAPAVOID][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK][FIREIMMUNE]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[GENPOWER:5]
[BLOODTYPE:0]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD][EVIL]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR][NOEXERT]
[PREFSTRING:corrupt intentions]
[BODY:HUMANOID_SIMPLE:SIX_TENTACLES:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:12]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:RUTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:LUTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:RMTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:LMTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:RLTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:LLTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[MALE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10069]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:IMMODERATION:100:100:100]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:0:0]
[SPHERE:DEPRAVITY]
[SPHERE:THRALLDOM]
}}

'''[[Spirit_of_fire|Spirit of Fire]]''': Arguably the hardest demon. Cannot swim, launches fireballs, is surrounded by fire, a powerful combatant, and can fly. Limbs sever when broken.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:SPIRIT_OF_FIRE]
[NAME:spirit of fire:spirits of fire:spirit of fire]
[TILE:'&'][COLOR:6:0:1]
[FLIER]
[MODVALUE:20]
[FANCIFUL][DEFENDER]
[TRAPAVOID][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK]
[FIREBREATH][FIREIMMUNE][LIKES_FIGHTING][MAGMA_VISION]
[GENPOWER:5]
[BLOODTYPE:0]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE][EVIL]
[NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NOBREATHE][NOBLEED][NOSTUN][NONAUSEA][NOEMOTION][RECKLESS]
[NOSTUCKINS][SEVERONBREAKS][NOSKULL][NOSKIN][NOBONES][NOMEAT][NOTHOUGHT][NOEXERT]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR][NOEXERT]
[PREFSTRING:firey glow]
[ITEMCORPSE:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:ASH:NO_MATGLOSS]
[NOSMELLYROT]
[BODY:HUMANOID_SIMPLE]
[SIZE:11]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:6:BURN][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[NO_GENDER]
[FIXED_TEMP:25000]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:0:0]
[SPHERE:FIRE]
}}
[[Category:Creatures]][[Category:Spoilers]]

40d Talk:Demon

2009-06-08T21:44:06Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Upright spear repeating traps */

{{spoiler}}

== Additions ==

If anyone has tried other defenses against Demons and they either failed or they worked then please add it to the article.

== Thoughts on Demons ==

(from the raws) It seems that all demons can swim... except for spirits of fire (the only ones without lungs, heart, brain exc)... i see spirits of fire as the most dangerous for this reason... perhaps water puts them out? tentacal and frog demons seem a bit less of a threat, due to their lack of fire breath. Also, none of the Demons are fireImmune_super... which means dragonbreath hurts them... so... demons vs dragons anyone?--[[User:Pbhead|Pbhead]] 02:04, 13 December 2007 (EST)
:I agree on spirits of fire being the most dangerous. From my experience with them they are quite vulnerable to crossbow bolts (killed a total of 16 exclusively this way). As giant cave spiders don't even try to shoot web trough fortifications I think that fortifications and marksdwarves are the way to deal with the demons. Melee champions in steel are way superior to any demons but the problem is that they are very vulnerable to fire ("bug 000001" in reported bugs) and are frequently not able to get close (even worse if there is at least 1 z-level up as spirits of fire WILL fly up). Piling spirits of fire with lots of wardogs or anything else is useless due to their firebreath attack. Don't even try to counter demons with less then 6-8 elite marksdwarves or 50-60 novice ones or an extremely long 1 tile wide corridor with a masterpiece ballista + 2 legendary siege operators + a ballista arrows stockpile. Crushing them with bridges could also work if you don't consider it a cheat and are sure that the demons won't have time to destroy the bridges as IMHO they will actively try to.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:42, 13 December 2007 (EST)

:I have a backup from a fort which has an unbreached pit and a tame dragon. My original plan was to use the dragon as part of my demon defence but when I didn't find the pit for a while I assumed I didn't have one so moved the dragon elsewhere. When I eventually did find the pit I was able to fight off the demons (frog demons, thankfully) with my champions and only lost a few children who were hanging around the mine when I opened the pit. I'm going to reload that backup now and pit dragon vs demon in a contest of strength. --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 06:35, 10 February 2009 (EST)

:Results: The dragon managed to take down about 6 frog demons with a combination of dragonbreath and brute strength but was eventually overcome and strangled to death (can demons strangle? he bled to death from a mangled throat which to me indicated strangling). I imagine that had I used the dragon first time round he would have been a dwarf-burning liability. --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 06:51, 10 February 2009 (EST)

== Possible defences? ==

when i breach my pit, (eventually) i hope to be able to A: seal it off quickly without losing too much admantine. B if that fails, have a large "dwarven toliet" (a artificial river with a large water fall...) if i am lucky, the water will be fast enough to sweep even the non-spirits of fire down the waterfall... where they will hopefully go *splat*. IF that fails... i plan to have a LOONG corridor, with fortifications on either side, and leet archers behind the fortifications and at the end of the tunnel, seige weapons, and spear masters hidden behind blind spots. and if that fails, hopefully by then i will have sealed my mines off from the main fortress. --[[User:Pbhead|Pbhead]] 02:04, 13 December 2007 (EST)

How about this in a passage?

+ - +<br />
+ F +<br />
W+M<br />
+ + +<br />

+: Wall<br />
-: Floor<br />
W/M: Water and magma, interchangeably<br />
F: Floodgate<br />

If and when the demon destroys the floodgate -he'll be obliged to if he can't get to another building, which can be accomplished by means of a channel and bridge- he'll be encased in forming obsidian. I don't believe there's ANYTHING that can survive this. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 21:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

== Spoiler warning? ==
We should probably have a spoiler warning for this page, especially for the picture of the pits. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 10:05, 1 January 2008 (EST)
:Agreed and added --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:16, 16 January 2008 (EST)

== Upright spear repeating traps ==
I assume these work and are effective, I was wondering if this was considered too cheap to use or was known to be ineffectual (maybe they destroy them before they walk into them, as they are buildings).

This is my first demon attack since df-23a, and I've been preparing multiple types of active defense in different layers, (ballistas on z-8, spears on z-7, pit with fortifications and 18 elite/champion marks-dwarves on z-5/6/4 [with 3 open z-levels to see how they deal with spirits of fire], 7 mace dwarves and 7 sword-dwarves with 62 war dogs for lulz if they get to z-3 and re-walling at z-2) so it'll be a learning experience. My last successful demon defense hinged on a drawbridge...wasn't as fun as this should be.

The spoiler is there for the eerily glowing pits, so I think once more people post success/defeats on the demon page, or specific demon information, such as the different types and abilities, the spoiler should be here as well.
:Spoiler Warning added --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:16, 16 January 2008 (EST)

Just had my encounter with 20+ tentacle demons and 1 Demon. 4 civilian casualties, '''no''' military casualties. And I got a movie of it. Here's what worked for me, in reverse order:

1. '''Steel-plated Champions''', about ten. These guys took their wrestling classes for five years before switching to actual weapons, and have occasionally been let loose on straggling goblins. I had prepared a bottleneck the moment I struck Adamantine, and when hell broke loose (heh) 6 different squads were stationed in the antechamber, crossbow-dwarves at the back ready to fire into the melee. Not every squad showed up. When the tentacle-demons broke down the final door, they were pinned, stabbed, shot, and speared. Only one got a square further than the bottleneck. (My veteran got 5 kills with an iron sword and a maple shield.) And first they had to make it through...

2. '''Six successive steel spikes''', on repeating mechanisms. Only five of these were operational in time but in a stroke of luck they took out the Fire-breather before he reached the dwarves. The Duke Consort working the lever may have killed one-third or even half of the demons. Once they're wounded or stunned, they can't move quickly out of the way of the next spike, so a stun is nearly always a kill.
It also helped that the demons were slowed down by...

3. '''Spamming them with cows.''' Livestock overpopulation getting you down? 20-odd cows suddenly released from a single cage into a narrow hallway don't put up much of a fight, but they definitely slowed down the demons and provided useful recon before being turned into hamburger. They were actually released by a melancholy elf stepping on the pressure plate early.

What I forgot to do, until the mounting casualties reminded me, was to send the triumphant military down into the chamber itself and secure the area. But still, pretty good. Anyone want to buy a dozen caged babbling elves? --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 20:58, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

== Cage Traps==
has any one caught a demon in a cage trap? if you could catch them that would be the easest way to deal with them. --[[Rock n rat]]
: I'm afraid demons are immune to cage, weapon, and stone-fall traps, although they will trigger pressure plates and the like. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 14:00, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
: when i diged to chamber i tried to catch imprisoners and built a lot of cagetraps. After a battle i realised some of them was full of tentacle demons. 0.28.181.40d [[Media:tentacle_caged.jpg]] --[[User:Desperado|Desperado]]

== The Little Brother ==
I have added my favorite anti-demon tactic; massed archers on a single tile, to the wiki. It works reliably for me. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 14:00, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== Ruling Demons ==

Anyone know what makes demons rule goblins? Hardcoded, maybe? --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 21:42, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:It's the goblin entity's [RELIGION:ANY_APPROPRIATE_POWER] tag in conjunction with the demon creature entry's [POWER] tag. Nothing else has either of those, and when I gave the former to another entity, they had demon rulers, too. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 13:04, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Demons Spawning outside of Pits ==

So, I found the 'Strange Chamber' awhile ago, and quickly sealed it off before any demons spawned on me. However, I just got a "Horrors..." message and have a demon breathing fire at my poor strand extractor. There's still no breach into the pits through which it could have escaped. Do demons spawn in excavated areas on maps with the Pits feature? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:12, 3 December 2008 (EST)

:You weren't fast enough in sealing it off. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:58, 3 December 2008 (EST)

::You are not omniscient. Creatures can hide from you. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:55, 3 December 2008 (EST)

:::First of all, the miner that breached the pits sealed it himself, immediately. I'd believe monsters can hide from me, I can't believe they could move *though* the dwarf (putting a floor over a down staircase) while he was sealing it and remain unnoticed.

:::Second, I breached the pits *years* ago. Like 4 or 5. I've been actively mining and extracting strands in the area that entire time. I find it hard to believe that the demon stayed hidden that long in a high-activity area.

:::I have confirmed the pits are sealed, and I know the miner who breached it immediately picked up a stone and sealed it because I turned off all his other labors, enabled masonry, and built a floor with the piece of material sitting on it, and watched him do it.

:::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 04:01, 4 December 2008 (EST)

== Fireball and firebreath against fortification ==
A fireball can go through a fortification, what about a firebreath?<small>– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Kami|Kami]]</small>

Most likely, though I'm sure someone here knows for sure. [[User:Richards|Richards]] 11:35, 10 February 2009 (EST)

40d:Demon

2009-06-08T21:40:00Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Demonology */ section

{{spoiler}}

[[Image:Mountain_air_pocket.JPG|thumb|right|250px|Here, demons appear as red and green ampersands.]]

A Demon is an evil fast moving creature that will either severely wound or kill your [[dwarf|dwarves]] and [[animal]]s. Their attacks include projectile fireballs and hand to hand combat. Most are living and as such are especially vulnerable to weapons with high critical boost such as [[spear]]s and [[crossbow]] [[bolt]]s.

Demons are immune to [[Trap#Stone-fall_Trap|stone-fall traps]], [[Trap#Weapon_Trap|weapon traps]], [[Trap#Cage_Trap|cage traps]] and will destroy your [[door]]s and [[floodgate]]s. At least some of them are able to fly and survive under [[Water|water]] and [[Magma|magma]].

==Defenses against Demons==

*Demons, as large, living enemies, are somewhat susceptible to piercing damage - [[spear]] and [[arrow]]s work well. A well trained, well equipped [[speardwarf]] can mix it up with frog and [[tentacle demon]]s, however will likely not get the chance to close with a [[Spirit_of_fire|Spirit of Fire]] before being immolated by the Spirit's ranged [[fire]] attack. Spirits also lack most vital organs that spears target in any case. Spirits can be reliably brought down by [[marksdwarf|marksdwarves]], but expect losses on both sides of that matchup. You can signifigantly improve your survival rate by placing the marksdwaves behind [[fortification]]s - the incoming fireballs have a chance to not penetrate the fortifications, which is higher the farther away the demon fired from.

*[[Siege weapon]]s can be useful against demons. A [[ballista|ballista]] bolt will kill a demon, and a ballista fired down a narrow hallway channelling the demons into your field of fire will kill several. Use [[wall]]s and fortifications to give your siege crew some protection from fireballs, and remember your crew will panic and run once the demons get too close, which will happen ''quickly'' as the demons are quite fast.

*One effective anti-demon tactic is to equip your entire fortress with crossbows, quivers and bolts and order them all into 1-dwarf squads. Station every one dwarf squad on the same tile. The result should be a single tile capable of launching 60+bolts in seconds. Set a space 4-6 tiles closer to the demons as a meeting zone; spare animals will pile up there. In this method, any approaching demons will 'bump' into the horses and cats, and then be obliterated by incredible crossbow fire. Although eventually your defending creatures may be slaughtered, this tactic can allow you to survive demon pits with ease.

*One thing you '''shouldn't''' bother trying is crushing the demons under a [[drawbridge|drawbridge]]. This used to be a highly effective (so much so that it was considered an exploit by some players) tactic, but in recent version the demon will break your bridge rather than vice-versa.

*Demons aren't susceptible to standard traps, but using a [[support]] to cause a cave-in might kill them. They may, however, be vulnerable to [[cage trap]]s if you can find [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-881-trappinghfs some technique to knock them] [[unconscious]] first. Upright steel [[spikes]] linked to a lever (on repeat) works on everything - demons, refugees, migrants, pets - if they hold still long enough to be hit, or if you spike a large enough area.

==Demonology==

'''[[Demon]]''': The same type of demon that rules the goblin civilizations, only one of these will usually be released, leading a large number of "soldier" demons of the other three types (only one type per pit). Larger and generally tougher than the other types of demons, they can also breath fire.
{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:DEMON]
[NAME:demon:demons:demonic]
[TILE:'&'][COLOR:4:0:1]
[MODVALUE:50]
[FANCIFUL][ENDING][POWER]
[FIREBREATH][FIREIMMUNE][LIKES_FIGHTING][MAGMA_VISION]
[FLIER]
[TRAPAVOID][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK]
[GENPOWER:5]
[BLOODTYPE:0]
[BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD][EVIL]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR][NOEXERT]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:terrifying features]
[BODY:HUMANOID:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:16]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:BURN][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[EQUIPS]
[FAT:3]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10095]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:ANXIETY:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:DEPRESSION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SELF_CONSCIOUSNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:VULNERABILITY:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ASSERTIVENESS:100:100:100]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:0:0]
[SPHERE:FIRE]
[SPHERE:DEATH]
[SPHERE:TORTURE]
}}

'''[[Frog demon]]''': Arguably the easiest demon. Powerful combatant and can swim.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:FROG_DEMON]
[NAME:frog demon:frog demons:frog demon]
[TILE:'&'][COLOR:2:0:1]
[MODVALUE:20]
[FANCIFUL][DEFENDER]
[TRAPAVOID][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK][FIREIMMUNE]
[AMPHIBIOUS][UNDERSWIM]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[GENPOWER:5]
[BLOODTYPE:0]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD][EVIL]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR][NOEXERT]
[PREFSTRING:impressive bellies]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:4FINGERS:4TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:12]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[NO_GENDER]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:0:0]
[SPHERE:MUCK]
[SPHERE:WATER]
[HOMEOTHERM:10040]
}}

'''[[Tentacle_demon|Tentacle Demon]]''': Corrupt intentions.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:TENTACLE_DEMON]
[NAME:tentacle demon:tentacle demons:tentacle demon]
[TILE:'&'][COLOR:5:0:1]
[MODVALUE:20]
[FANCIFUL][DEFENDER]
[TRAPAVOID][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK][FIREIMMUNE]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[GENPOWER:5]
[BLOODTYPE:0]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD][EVIL]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR][NOEXERT]
[PREFSTRING:corrupt intentions]
[BODY:HUMANOID_SIMPLE:SIX_TENTACLES:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:12]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:RUTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:LUTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:RMTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:LMTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:RLTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:LLTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[MALE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10069]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:IMMODERATION:100:100:100]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:0:0]
[SPHERE:DEPRAVITY]
[SPHERE:THRALLDOM]
}}

'''[[Spirit_of_fire|Spirit of Fire]]''': Arguably the hardest demon. Cannot swim, launches fireballs, is surrounded by fire, a powerful combatant, and can fly. Limbs sever when broken.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:SPIRIT_OF_FIRE]
[NAME:spirit of fire:spirits of fire:spirit of fire]
[TILE:'&'][COLOR:6:0:1]
[FLIER]
[MODVALUE:20]
[FANCIFUL][DEFENDER]
[TRAPAVOID][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK]
[FIREBREATH][FIREIMMUNE][LIKES_FIGHTING][MAGMA_VISION]
[GENPOWER:5]
[BLOODTYPE:0]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE][EVIL]
[NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NOBREATHE][NOBLEED][NOSTUN][NONAUSEA][NOEMOTION][RECKLESS]
[NOSTUCKINS][SEVERONBREAKS][NOSKULL][NOSKIN][NOBONES][NOMEAT][NOTHOUGHT][NOEXERT]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR][NOEXERT]
[PREFSTRING:firey glow]
[ITEMCORPSE:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:ASH:NO_MATGLOSS]
[NOSMELLYROT]
[BODY:HUMANOID_SIMPLE]
[SIZE:11]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:6:BURN][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[NO_GENDER]
[FIXED_TEMP:25000]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:0:0]
[SPHERE:FIRE]
}}
[[Category:Creatures]][[Category:Spoilers]]

40d:Help! My civilians keep running into combat!

2009-06-05T14:11:14Z

Jellyfishgreen: Category:Fortress defense

After the bodies start falling, and sometimes even before, citizens will run like madmen right into the middle of a [[combat]] situation. We'd like to think of it as natural selection, but all dwarves are potentially that stupid.

==Causes==
===Corpse looting===
The most common cause is the death of a friend or enemy. A dying creature who carries objects drops those objects on death, and your dwarves just can't wait to start looting the corpses. Even the presence of hostiles will only deter them if they get close enough to be spooked, and then there's often no telling which direction they'll run - it's usually the wrong one. This behavior only occurs after someone dies. To prevent this behavior, as soon as bodies are generated immediately forbid ({{K|d}} - {{K|b}} - {{K|f}}) all objects they were carrying and their corpse - including all parts thereof. Dwarves will cancel jobs to retrieve forbidden items.

As of v0.28.181.40a, an option is available to automatically forbid objects and corpses killed on the map. You can access the options via the following key combo: {{K|o}} - {{K|F}}

===Outside tasks===
The second behavior which leads to civilian dwarves in avoidable combat situations is dwarves who try to take jobs which take them outside. The very simple way to deal with this is the order {{K|o}} - {{K|i}} - dwarves stay indoors. This might give you a lot of cancel job messages and dwarves may also still crowd your fortress' entrance(s), which is often not desirable (see details below).

The source of this behaviour can be really a more general version of the previous (as they may be trying to do a job 'take item to depot' for dropped items), but can be generated by any object or stockpile that's sitting outside. Dealing with this in detail can be much harder unless you've kept your stockpiles inside and kept track of every object outside, because finding them to forbid them can be difficult, especially on larger maps or maps with many outdoor z-levels.

Of course not all outdoor jobs are going to be item collecting jobs. Woodcutters will want to chop designated trees (deselect them to stop this or turn off the labor), planters will want to harvest or seed an outside plot, fisherdwarfs are going to want to go fishing (turn off the fishing labor), trappers will want to trap and hunters will want to hunt (turn off these labors). You'll want to turn off gathering refuse from outside as well using the [[standing orders]] menu: ({{K|o}} - {{K|r}} - {{K|o}}).

===Rescue missions===
One last behavior which can (rarely) bring a civilian into combat is an attempt to rescue a wounded dwarf. Unfortunately you can't 'forbid' a living dwarf, but you can disable the "Health Care" job for the dwarf attempting the rescue. You may need to draft then undraft him to reset his health care job.

==Solutions==
==="All dwarves stay inside"===
You can order all your dwarves, or just non-soldier dwarves, to stay inside by using the standing orders menu: {{k|o}} - {{k|i}}. However this is often an ineffective solution because the prohibition only kicks in when a dwarf actually steps outside. Thus, if combat (or other enemy deterrence systems) are at or near your entrance, telling dwarves to stay inside will not help - they will still try to take these jobs, walk outside (right into a combat situation), and then realize they aren't supposed to be there, cancel the job, walk back inside, and try to take the same job again.

Setting only soldiers to go outside is not a cure-all, since soldiers can still generate Pickup Equipment jobs and run one by one into a hail of goblin crossbow fire. Idle soldiers will still head for outside statue gardens or spar at outside barracks unless you un-designate those rooms.

Also, dwarves will go outside even under this order if there is something inside they want that can only be reached by a path that takes them outside, for instance running across a wall providing a beautiful target to aforementioned goblin crossbows.

Entrance design helps. If the only way to your entrance is through a protected "outside" area (using open ceilings (skylights) and/or a brief walk across a patch of surface surrounded by aboveground walls) your dwarves will remember the "stay inside" order when they reach the outside area. Keep this protected area a bowshot or sharp bend away, behind the actual entrance (or trapped hallway), and you should be good throughout [[Goblin christmas]].

===Remove distractions===
As described above, as soon as a siege or ambush occurs, turn off the labors of dwarves who have outdoor tasks (woodcutting, fishing, trapping and hunting), un-designate ({{k|d}} - {{k|x}}) trees or shrubs that were set to be cut or gathered, and forbid ({{k|d}}} - {{{k|f}}) anything outdoors that your dwarves might want to fetch (such as freshly-cut logs). Continue doing this as the combat progresses and bodies and items start dropping. Turning off refuse hauling, as described above ({{K|o}} - {{K|r}} - {{K|o}}), may help. So can telling dwarves not to collect bodies: {{k|o}} - {{k|g}} if you use stockpiles for dead dwarves (which [[coffin|you shouldn't]]).

===Batten down the hatches===
An easier solution to manage is locking all your dwarves inside, for instance by raising drawbridges. This tends to break invader AIs however, as they will just mill about outside (not walking forward into your traps) because they can't find a path to a dwarf. It also makes it more difficult to get military out to the invaders because when you open the doors your dwarves will start taking outdoor jobs again.

===Martial law===
One last solution is to draft all your civilian dwarves and station them somewhere deep within your fortress. It will generate a lot of unhappy thoughts, and kill your productivity for the duration of the siege, but it will stop them from being stupid. Watch out for newly-recruited dwarves who are set to equip armour or weapons, however: they may attempt to run out into the fray to equip themselves if 'Soldiers can go outside' is selected.

===Forward barracks===
Create your barracks, a food stockpile, weapons and armour stockpiles, small meeting hall, etc. near the entrance of your fort for your military dwarves to use. Have the rest of your fort separated by lockable doors. When fighting occurs, lock all non-military dwarves in the back of the fort where they can continue working undisturbed. Forcing all incoming traffic to move through your barracks has the added benefit of making it likely that any sneaky [[thief]] will be discovered in the middle of your sparring ground -- with predictably gruesome results for the thief.

The forward barracks concept can be extended by placing the barracks so far forward that they are on the surface, outside the fortress proper, forming a castle of sorts. This requires encircling walls or channels on the surface to force enemies into a designated approach path and block others, so there is more work required of the player. One benefit is that the "soldiers can go outside" order will keep civilians out of the castle, and thus hopefully out of harm's way; also this will consume large amounts of those stones that clutter up the fortress.

==Conclusion==
The existence of this problem is a strong argument for doing as much as you can to give your dwarves little reason to go outside. The fewer reasons your dwarves have for going outside, the fewer dwarves you will lose to crazy dwarves wandering into the line of fire. It has the side benefit of greatly reducing your casualties from ambushes. Strategies like building a [[trade depot]] indoors, behind a retractable drawbridge, will help keep your dwarves out of danger.

Providing indoor pastimes (like a [[sculpture garden]], [[zoo]], [[meeting hall]], or a meeting area [[zone]]) will make dwarves spend their break time in the fortress rather than outside. This will prevent dwarves from hanging around outside, which will lessen the likelihood that they will get caught outside when siegers arrive. Creative use of water resources to create an [[underground forest]] can limit danger to woodcutters. Hunters, haulers and other dwarves who have business outside will still be at risk.

{{Military FAQ}}
[[Category:Fortress defense]]

40d:Trap design

2009-06-05T14:09:30Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Basic traps */

This page is one of several inter-related articles on the broader topic of defending your fortress and your dwarves. This page will focus on the theory and design of complex traps, mechanical systems and other automation for defending your fortress, and also on unusual uses of simple mechanic's [[trap]]s.

See the [[Defense guide|Defense guide]] for a general overview of threats and considerations for fortress defense.

For suggestions on training, organizing and deploying soldiers and militia, see [[Military design]].

Many defenses rely on complex traps as a central component, that are, essentially, the defense themselves. For designs that could be adapted to use any complex trap, see [[Defense design]].

----

:'''''Editors & Contributors''' - Please see top of [[Talk:Trap design|discussion page]] before posting.''

=Introduction=
Complex traps and automation rely on linking doors, hatches, floodgates, bridges and mechanic's traps to levers or pressure plates. When the trigger is activated, it sends a signal to the linked device. That signal is not "toggle", but it's specifically either to "open" or to "close". By manipulating what does what and when, impressive results can be achieved.

To fully understand how these component objects work individually (before combining them into diabolical and complex combinations), see those articles.

=Basic traps=
These are the simple [[trap]]s that are placed by a mechanic. They require one [[mechanism]] but do not require levers or triggers. They can be a "first defense" for a fledgling fortress, but they can also be combined into key parts of more complex set ups.

Note that, in combat situations, [[Mechanic]]s (and others) have a nasty habit of wanting to clean or reload traps when they are triggered, regardless of who or what might be out there as well. [[Forbid]]ding traps after they are built will keep [[Urist|Urist McGoblinBait]] from deciding to reload a stone trap in the middle of a [[siege]]. Just remember to unforbid them when things calm down, so the traps are all ready for next time. Or keep all traps [[Help! My civilians keep running into combat!|unreachable]] with drawbridges or orders.

Simple traps will also be triggered if your own dwarves or pets fall unconscious on them.

==Stone fall trap==
This is the easiest trap to build, so you can easily build them in large numbers. Building lots of them is an easy way to earn experience for your [[mechanic]], and add to the depth of your fort's defenses at the same time. Surround every intersection and stairway.

==Cage trap==
:A very powerful type of trap. Maybe even too powerful - currently, even a wooden or glass [[cage]] can hold indefinitely any creature, even trolls and megabeasts. Also, a cage trap never fails. A large creature can shrug off damage from a stone or weapon trap, but nothing can escape from a cage. Use cage traps as your outermost traps to catch the occasional wandering animal, or angry wounded [[elephant]] or [[unicorn]], or even [[zombie]]s.

By connecting a trapped animal in a cage to a lever, you can remotely release that animal. (Note - not all wild beasts will attack goblins.)

==Weapon trap==
:The gold standard of lethal traps. This is the only simple trap that works repeatedly without reloading. They do get jammed, however. View the trap with the '''items in room''' {{key|t}} mode, and if there's a corpse inside the trap, it's jammed. None of the weapons on a jammed trap will function. It may be wiser to have several weapon traps with fewer weapons, rather than a smaller number of ten-weapon traps.

Using [[crossbow]]s in weapon traps avoids the problem of jamming, but they must be kept loaded with [[ammo]]. Hammers seem to jam less than swords or axes, and spears seem to jam the most. Your dwarves will attempt to unjam traps unless otherwise forbidden.

=Linked traps=
These traps require a trigger such as a [[pressure plate]] or [[lever]] pull. They will require at least three [[mechanisms]], one for the trigger and two to create the link. The trigger can be located any distance from the trap, typically close for a pressure plate or far away for a lever.

==Menacing Spikes==
Menacing [[spike]]s or upright spears can be activated remotely to pop out of the ground and impale anyone standing on that tile. Vast forests of these can make any area a killing field.

They will not jam. They are very deadly to everything including your dwarves and animals. Steel ones are fireproof.

Try planting a bunch of Upright Spear/Spikes in your main hallway, and link them all up to one lever. When invaders come near, give the order to pull the lever, but set it to Repeat. The lever will continuously be pulled and the spikes come up and down repeatedly, perforating most enemies in seconds. Note that this takes a lot of time and mechanisms to build.

==Dropping the Hammer==
Lowering [[drawbridge]]s on invaders will crush them.

Try replacing the side wall of a part of your main entranceway with a drawbridge, big enough so it spans the whole hallway. To prevent enemies from wrecking it, you could dig a channel in front of it so its protected while its raised. Link the drawbridge up to a pressure plate or lever, whatever you prefer. Whenever you feel like it, activate the trap, and watch the drawbridge fall directly into the hall, utterly squashing anything beneath it. This can be done with minimal effort and used to smash invaders, unwanted immigrants, nobles, or simply to destroy your garbage. This is based on the 'Dwarven Atom Smasher' device mentioned elsewhere in the wiki.

==Intentional Cave-in==
[[Support]]s can be linked to triggers. Building a section of floor that is deliberately held up only by a trapped support allows for an intentional [[cave-in]].
* Invaders dropped into a pit can be wounded or killed. Or, in the case of a [[chasm]], vanished entirely.
* Dropping a rock floor on invaders will likewise do harm.
* The cave-in will also knock nearby invaders unconscious. This will stun them, and also make them susceptible to simple traps (even if normally immune).

=Trap strategies=
==Bait animals==
Enemies will hunt down and kill friendly tame animals wandering outside if they have nothing better to do. Put a puppy on a chain in some random spot outside, build a few columns around it to reduce the chance of them shooting it, and trap that area to hell and back. Also known as the "Tar Baby" strategy.

==Obstacle Course==
Combining some intentional cave-ins, lots of cage traps, some weapon and stone fall traps, channels, and pressure plates is a sure-fire way to fend off an invading goblin army.

==Circular path trap==
Create a small area preferably 1 tile wide, and channel it out leaving one support under it. This MUST be connected to your base by a bridge so enemies will take it. Place a pressure plate at the end, linked to the support and another bridge into your fortress. line this area with weapon traps and line the exits of the subterranean area underneath this with cage traps. The area underneath must also lead to your base so the enemies will walk into the cages. then build another area just like this except have the entrance bridge be retracted/raised and have the first pressure plate link to it, so it is an endless game of cat and mouse (sort of)

==Scattered traps==
Another options for outside defenses is scattered traps. Most hostile forces will flee if they take enough casualties, and stone-fall traps can be quite damaging to goblins and are easy to set up. Cage traps work even on [[Bronze colossus|Bronze Colossi]] and [[Dragon]]s. You just have to make sure your dwarves working outside actually stay near your traps - a fisherdwarf who goes wandering screens away from the nearest trap is not protected. A wall of traps is a passive threat to injure, kill or capture enemies who will happily walk right into them.

=Damage traps=
These complex traps are designed to kill or maim.

=Water traps=
These traps drown or wash targets away. Carelessness can cause an entire fortress to flood and be lost. Use with caution.

=== a water trap ===
'''Level 0'''
<pre>
=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=
-|>|.|.|\|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|/|.|.|-|>
-|>|.|.|\|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|/|.|.|-|>
-|>|.|.|\|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|/|.|.|-|>
=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=</pre>

'''Level -1'''
<pre>
=|=|=|=|=|=|X|X|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|X|X|=|=|=|=|=|=
=|=|\|.|.|\|_|_|/|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|\|_|_|/|.|.|/|=|=
=|=|\|.|.|\|_|_|/|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|\|_|_|/|.|.|/|=|=
=|=|\|.|.|\|_|_|/|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|\|_|_|/|.|.|/|=|=
=|=|=|=|=|=|X|X|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|X|X|=|=|=|=|=|=</pre>

'''Level -2'''
<pre>
=|=|=|=|=|=|x|x|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|x|x|=|=|=|=|=|=
=|=|=|=|=|\|.|.|/|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|\|.|.|/|=|=|=|=|=
=|=|=|=|=|\|.|.|/|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|\|.|.|/|=|=|=|=|=
=|=|=|=|=|\|.|.|/|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|\|.|.|/|=|=|=|=|=
=|=|=|=|=|=|x|x|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|x|x|=|=|=|=|=|=</pre>

*<tt>=</tt> - Wall
*<tt>.</tt> - Floor
*<tt>_</tt> - open Space
*<tt>\</tt> - ramp (direction should be clear)
*<tt>X</tt> - Inflow
*<tt>x</tt> - Outflow

If enemies are in the middle of Level -1, open the inflow, then the water will first trap, and then drown them. If the pit is full, close the in- and open the outflow. You can automate this by using pressure plates, or if you want to have more fun, replace the water with magma (pressure plates and floodgates have to be magma-save then).

=Magma traps=
These traps incinerate targets, or possibly encase them in obsidian. Magma does not play favorites - read up (again) on [[magma]], and use with ''extreme'' caution.

=Automation & misc trap designs=
==Chasm trap==
The easiest chasm trap is just a retractable bridge, very high up or over a very deep hole; instead of flinging invaders when raised, it just drops them.

A more complicated collapsing spiral trap can take out ten goblins at a time. When finished, it looks like this:
<pre>
------------
-++++++++#++
-+=======-
-+=++++++-
-+=+====+-
-+=+=D+=+-
-+=+==+=+-
-+=++^+=+-
-+======+-
-++++++++-
------------
</pre>
The goblins are lured in by a bait animal (here, a chained donkey), and can't shoot it due to the surrounding walls. Just before they reach the donkey, they trigger a pressure plate that retracts the bridge and collapses the support holding up the whole spiral. Goblins, donkey, walls, and all plummet into the chasm.

When building, you will need to build a span of floor underneath, for the support. You will also need to have a floor tile between your floor and solid ground, as the bridge alone will not work as a base, but you can remove it once the support is in place.

==Bridge Land Mines==

Although this takes quite a few mechanisms and a lot of carpenters to pull of, you might be able to create a minefield on a bridge, create a very long moat and a bridge crossing it, make sure this bridge is not your outermost bridge, this bridge should be at least 20 squares long, but make sure it is no more than 4 squares wide. then set up a ton of pressure plates in a checkered pattern, build a floor above the bridge, and make supports next to the pressure plates, then remove the floor tiles not on the supports, destroy the up-stairs on to the floor, and link all your pressure plates to a support, as soon as a goblin walks on them, the floor caves in and makes an explosion knocking him and the friends he has near him off the bridge drowning them.

This should not be used as the only defense, make sure you have other traps at the ready in case of large [[siege]]s

NOTE: This is a very expensive creation and should only be used late in the game when you can spare lots of stone/wood/mechanisms. the bigger the bridge the more effective the trap

Retract [[bridge]] 2 to force invaders to take the long way, first running along the wall (to the west in this diagram) and then zig-zagging back for maximum exposure to your ranged units on the walls above them. The pits at the base of the walls are necessary to target down one z-level at enemy units.

''(Note - [[Trader]]s will NOT stop at your fortress unless there is a clear, 3-wide path to a [[Trade Depot]] when they arrive. Bridge 2 should be kept down if you want/expect Traders.)''

Bridges 1 and 3 can be put down to allow enemies into this pit entrance, then retracted again to trap them in the kill zone. Note - Attackers must have a complete "path" to where they want to go, so bridge 3 must be down to lure them in.

[[Category:Guides]]
[[Category:Fortress defense| ]]
[[Category:World]]
[[Category:Design]]

40d Talk:How do I stop my dwarves from dropping clothes all over the barracks

2009-06-05T14:08:23Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Layering */ new section

So ... anyone got an answer for this one? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 04:10, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:What's the actual problem? Random clothing on the floor, or clothing in stockpiles? --[[User:Major sephiroth|Major sephiroth]] 04:16, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:: Clothing on the floor. It's not really annoying for sparring, but it's unesthetic. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 05:36, 9 November 2008 (EST)

::: If none of your military dwarves or guards are wrestlers, they won't be grabbing and tearing off clothing at all (unless circumstances conspire to deprive them of their weapon while sparring, perhaps.) Beyond that, giving every dwarf their own room, optionally with a container to store clothes in, should enable them to clean up the sparring floor. They might be 'storing their belongings' intentionally and acting like they own the place, I'm not sure.--[[User:Navian|Navian]] 06:24, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::::Wouldn't you have to deactivate them before they put it away? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 14:17, 9 November 2008 (EST)

::::: No, soldiers will put away equipment. Does anyone know if it's worth your time to put chests and cabinets in a barracks? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 22:48, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:::::: Putting Cabinets and chests into the barracks isn't a good idea since dwarves that already have their own cabinet and those who don't will constantly check the cabinet since it's public, so it's better if each of your military dwarves have their own room.[[User:Mission0|Mission0]]

::::::Tried that as a solution a long time ago, it never did anything to clean the floor of clothes. As for the need to clean them up, I typically have my ammo/weapon/armor stockpile(s) co-located with my barracks, which itself is typically right outside my tradepost, making it an ideal spot for all things military. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 05:26, 30 November 2008 (EST)

== Layering ==

Isn't this due to layering? Besmar has his jockstrap pulled off while wrestling, but he is wearing leather leggings. He knows the jockstrap goes under the leggings, but doesn't know how to take off the leggings to put on the jockstrap again. So he leaves it on the ground.

Apparently if you set the Armor type back to Clothes, Besmar will remove the armor and put his clothes back on. Can anyone confirm? --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 14:08, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

40d:Defense guide

2009-06-05T13:58:44Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Traps */ new main

In Dwarf Fortress, you will often find yourself beset by hostile creatures looking to murder your dwarves and take their things. Protecting your fortress from intruders is a challenging task and a broad, complex topic. A wide variety of [[creature]]s can threaten your dwarves, and there is no one approach or philosophy that perfectly addresses every possibility. Fortress layout, military organization and training, traps, and more all contribute to the overall "defense" and survivability of your fortress and the dwarves that live and work both within there and in the world around it, and likewise no one article can include every last detail. This guide will pull from many other articles, but will prefer to refer to those rather than re-post information that is already found (and better placed) there.

There are three important things to consider when planning the defenses for your fortress. First, you must protect the fortress itself - the buildings, the hallways, the dwarves within it. But second, protecting the dwarves outside and topside as they go about their work is also important. These two goals can often be rather divergent, as your dwarves may need to wander the open countryside to collect herbs, cut trees, hunt, fish, or otherwise just enjoy nature, and while outside your the bounds of your fortress they can find themselves quite vulnerable. Lastly is game style - you want the game to be "fun" for you, and with some situations it's quite possible to defend yourself into complete boredom, or just go down a road that is not attractive style-wise. While this article cannot tell you how to have fun, it will comment on this when appropriate, and you should keep it in mind as well.



'''Note''' - There is not room in this article to expand adequately on every sub-topic - ''please'' see specific articles for a ''complete'' discussion as desired.

==General guidelines==

While admitting that "Rules are made to be broken", there are some general recommendations that have a proven value in defending a fortress:

* '''Minimize fortress entrances:''' Have a strong and clear distinction between inside and outside. This usually corresponds to underground and surface, but not always - you can have a complete medieval-style castle complex on the surface. But each point of entry should be hardened against attack. Don't make more entrances than really necessary. If there is a useless or redundant opening, seal it off, one way or another. (Some creatures can destroy doors and drawbridges if they can reach them.)

* '''Concentric circles:''' Think redundancy - one wall may not be enough. With the existence of door-destroying and bow-wielding attackers, double or multiple hard barriers between the inside and the outside is essential to fend off the worst assaults, and if they get inside one barrier it's nice to have another behind that. Sometimes captives will escape their [[cage]]s ''inside'' your fortress. The choke points between the circles are where you build traps and doors, and station troops.

* '''Assume the worst:''' Build up your defenses ''before'' the enemy shows up - like right now! Plan on being [[siege]]d by scores of [[goblin]] archers, door-breaking [[troll]]s, invisible [[kobold]] master thieves, dive-bombing [[giant eagle]]s, flame-breathing [[fire imp]]s, angry [[elephants]], and a [[bronze colossus]] - ''all at once''. Hopefully, you will never have to face that kind of threat, but being ready for anything is the best bet, and, more realistically, when things go wrong (and with dwarfs, they will, just believe it) you will have a buffer of defense to fall back on.

==Threats==
Danger comes in a variety of forms in Dwarf Fortress. Understanding the diverse threats is the first step to keeping your dwarves alive.

:*'''Wild animals'''
::Creatures vary in threat and habits. Some [[animal]]s are quite dangerous, but most are easily excluded by the humble [[door]] or [[hatch]], even if it's not [[forbidden]]. Some few are able to destroy doors and hatches, statues and other [[building]]s, and some are thieves (see below), or will eat your food (such as [[Grizzly_bear|bear]]s). A lone animal, even a clear predator, will usually flee from a stronger force, but some [[undead]] and evil creatures can be blindly aggressive. Combat is random, and any animal can kill any dwarf - and vice versa.

::Wild animals can appear from the topside, but also from an [[underground river]] or [[underground pool|pool]] that you find by mining into it. In evil or savage [[surroundings]], the creatures can be both much tougher and more aggressive.

:*'''Thieves & child snatchers'''
::Many creatures are "thieves" in the general sense - tribes of [[rhesus macaque]]s or [[raccoon]]s offer their own potential headaches, grabbing items of value and running. But a creature with a listed ( {{k|u}} ) [[profession]] of [[Thief]] has a few additional nasty surprises, namely being invisible until spotted by your dwarves or [[domestic animal]]s, being able to bypass locked or forbidden doors, being armed with a real weapon, and some imperfect ability to avoid triggering traps (though some seem better at it than others). [[Kobold]]s and [[goblin]]s are individually more dangerous than animals, but when spotted there's a special [[alert]] message, either "'''Protect the hoard!'''" or "'''Protect the children!'''", as appropriate. A small tribe of monkeys can flood an unsecured area unannounced, and it doesn't matter how many you kill if one or three make off with some prized possessions.

:*'''Ambushes'''
::An [[ambush]] is a small number of enemies (less than ten) that are invisible until spotted, but are easier to spot than thieves. The alert message is "'''An ambush! Curse them!'''" They skulk around the outside of your fortress, unseen until they strike, looking for wandering dwarves or caravans entering or leaving. They will often flee off the map if challenged.

:*'''Siege'''
::A [[siege]] is a large number of armed and organized attackers that are announced as soon as they appear on the map. The alert message is "A vile force of darkness has arrived!" While siegers are on the map, the word "SIEGE" appears in the top corners of the screen. Siegers are organized into a number of squads, each squad having a different weapon choice. Some sieges bring dangerous creatures to aid the armed attackers. If you are at [[war]] with a civilization, expect annual sieges at least.

:*'''Enemy archers'''
::Attackers with [[bow]]s or [[crossbow]]s are worth separate mention as they are much, ''much'' more threatening than those with melee weapons. Out-shooting them with your marksdwarves is risky, and charging them with melee fighters is even worse. Special techniques are needed to shield your dwarves from the deadly rain of arrows.

:*'''Building destroyers'''
::Some creatures have the [[BUILDINGDESTROYER]] [[creature tokens|tag]] in their [[RAW file]]. This gives them the fearful capacity of tearing apart your doors and bridges and anything else that is built with the {{k|b}} + {{k|C}} keys. (This does ''not'' include walls.)

:*'''Flying animals'''
::Currently, without modding, the only flying creatures are wild animals, like the [[giant eagle]]. Being aware of their presence is often all you can do until they choose to come to you.

:*'''Megabeasts'''
::A [[megabeast]] is a particularly powerful and dangerous creature, such as a [[dragon]] or [[titan]]. Meagabeasts appear alone, with an alert message that mentions the beast by name. They often have unique characteristics which present unusual challenges, but are universally dangerous.

:*'''War'''
::Before hitting that {{k|e}} and embarking, {{k|tab}} to civilizations on the pre-embark screen, and see if you are at [[war]] with anyone. If so, things can get hot fast, with more and larger ambushes and sieges, and sooner. This is unusual, but a nasty surprise if you didn't check.

==Elements of a defense==

Dwarf Fortress is very open-ended, and any number of defensive, engineering, fortification and military principles will work in DF that have worked in reality. Combine different elements into the defense you want.

A [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moat moat] with a drawbridge is perhaps the simplest defense known to Dwarvenkind, and not a bad start. The [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortifications Fortifications article on Wikipedia] is also a good resource. But simply shutting the outside world out and allowing invaders to mill about outside your moat is not always a desirable solution. Enemies will still prevent traders from arriving, and prevent any desired outdoor activities. In addition, Dwarf Fortress players often find it enjoyable to perpetrate mass slaughter of invaders rather than helplessly glare at them from inside their caves.

For this, you will need a more complicated defense than a passive ditch and walls. One common method of defense is to build a walled structure above the entrance to your fortress, stationing Marksdwarves on the second floor overlooking the drawbridge-entrance. Another is to engineer a very long but narrow entrance, at the end of which are [[Ballista | ballista]]e waiting to unload at unfortunate monsters in the field of fire. The variations are infinite.

===Physical layout===
These are the [[wall]]s, [[floor]], [[fortification]]s and so on that create the towers and perimeters of your fortress, acting as physical barriers for your dwarves and against threats. However, they always work in conjunction with the other elements. Creative use of layouts can achieve some quite satisfying results.

'''Terrain'''
:The lay of the land can be your friend, but the way of the dwarf is to shape the land as needed. Removing slopes can create safe, private terraces and valley walls that prevent all access. Chasms and rivers (not brooks!) create hard barriers, but an open chasm or magma vent can be a source of dangerous creatures. Small hills can serve as vantage points for archers (yours or theirs!), but if carved with stairs leading up from within, they can be quick strategic strongpoints. Narrow valleys can become chokepoints for entrances, where your marksdwarfs can overlook any who come and go. Augmented by constructions below, the terrain becomes your first option for defense.

:Some players take quite a while looking around and thinking about the terrain before unpausing the game, planning their fortress entrance and envisioning basic defenses.

'''Walls'''
:Constructing walls around your entrance is the simplest start, and an essential part of fortress defense, but a wall alone is not a complete defense. Currently, no creature can knock down a wall. Not only does it keep enemies out, your archers can stand on top of the wall and fire down. Keep in mind that this makes them vulnerable to enemy fire. To protect against that, build [[fortification]]s.

'''Fortifications'''
:[[Fortification]]s are the marksdwarf's friend. They allow hand-held missile weapons to pass through, and are often placed on top of walls for tactical advantage. Projectiles have a chance of being blocked, based on the firer's skill and distance to the fortification. There's no chance of the missile being blocked if the firer is adjacent to the fortification. Keep your marksdwarves close and keep enemies away - if an enemy archer can walk up to your fortifications, they provide zero protection from that missile fire. Build fortified firing platforms above ground level and put a nice wide moat between the wall and the enemy. Fortifications have no effect on [[siege engine]]s.

:Like Fortifications, Vertical [[Bars]] and Wall [[Grate | Grates]] will also allow projectiles to fire through them while impeding units' movement. Unlike Fortifications, Bars and Grates may be connected to a [[Lever]], and opened or closed remotely - thus, they are good for forming portcullis. These constructions provide no defense - the missile fire works both ways equally.

'''Doors, and Hatches'''
:[[Door]]s and [[hatch]]es are the most obvious way to keep any enemy out. Door can only be double-wide - not enough to seal up an entrance for a [[wagon]]. You can [[forbid]] doors to keep [[humanoid]] enemies out, and your dwarves in. Outer doors can be closed against animals, to keep beloved [[pet]]s from wandering into enemy fire. A [[floor hatch]] is just a vertical door.

'''Floodgates'''
:[[Floodgate|Floodgates]], alone or in a line, may be used as removable walls, since they need no support and disappear when "opened" remotely, although using a wide drawbridge will be much more economical in terms of [[Mechanism]]s. (Be aware that Megabeasts can batter down both raised floodgates and drawbridges, and ''any object'' can prevent a floodgate from closing again, even a single, stray crossbow bolt or confused animal.)

:A floodgate can be used just like a door, with two differences: A floodgate can be placed next to another floodgate, unlike a door, which needs to be adjacent to a wall. A floodgate is closed by default, and can only be opened with a lever. Be careful not to trap your dwarves.

'''Moats'''
:Channeling a ditch is a fast and effective defense. The moat doesn't have to be filled with water or magma. Arguably, a dry moat is a better defense. If you want to build an access/escape route for your moat, consider where it leads - the enemy might use that too.

:A moat cuts off access for your dwarves as well, so a retractable- or drawbridge is usually included in the design. But a moat with a non-retractable bridge is still potentially useful: It keeps enemy archers away from your fortifications, and it channels enemies into a narrow and predictable path. A drawbridge without a moat is just a big remote control door. (This doesn't work with retracting bridges.)

'''Bridges'''
:Bridges come in 3 forms - a permanent construction ''(essentially a "wall" or floor built out over a void)'', a retractable bridge, and a drawbridge. The movable type have a maximum size of 10x10 (including one solid "anchor" line of tiles at the base), and require a lever and two mechanisms to link them to be raised. Permanent bridges can be designed or later modified to include the latter.

:A retractable/raise-able [[bridge]] over a deep trench is a simple and almost air-tight defense - only flying creatures can pass it (''once the bridge is raised''). The moat keeps building-destroyers away from the bridge, and the raised bridge blocks arrow fire for anything behind it. [[Channel]]s may be dug to form ditches, or moats - be aware of what might exist or be planned for the next [[z-level]] down. For defensive purposes they do not need to be filled with anything - as in the middle ages, a dry ditch is more than enough to prevent ground units from approaching (though of course, projectiles may be launched over it with impunity). With a retracting [[Bridge]] over the moat, any units or items on top of the bridge will be dropped into the moat (and, if the moat is filled with water, drown unless they can swim out; if it is filled with magma, they burn to death.) With a drawbridge, they will be flung some tiles in a random direction, possibly being injured when they land.

:Drawbridges can throw creatures a distance (in a random direction) when the bridge is raised, possibly injuring them on landing. Creatures on top of drawbridges will be utterly destroyed if they are flush against wall and have a floor tile above them, as will anything, friend, foe or object, on a floor that is covered when the drawbridge is lowered. This offensive use of drawbridges is known as the [[Dwarven Atom Smasher]].

:A drawbridge works as a door when "raised", sealing the passage it raises against. Consider this, as well as security from [[building destroyer]]s, when choosing the direction a drawbridge is to raise.

:There are three important things to remember: 1) Always build the bridge to raise towards the ''inside'' (so it cannot be destroyed when raised), 2) the [[lever]] has to be pulled by a civilian, not a soldier, and 3) water can freeze solid in cold weather. Also, some rare creatures can cross fluids, even magma. Nothing but flying creatures can get out of a channel.

====Remote control====
:*'''Barriers'''
::If you link a [[lever]] to a door, hatch cover or floodgate, it becomes impossible for your dwarves to open and close it normally. Pulling the lever is the only way to open it. This keeps your dwarves locked in as well as keeping enemies out. (It's unknown if thieves can bypass a closed door once it's linked to a lever or pressure plate.) There is often a frustrating delay between ordering a lever pulled and when a dwarf pulls it, and another shorter one between between pulling the lever and the barrier responding.

::Any item or creature in an open barrier at the moment it tries to close will not only prevent that barrier from closing, but that "close" signal will be lost. Any lever will have to be pulled twice more - to reset to "open", and then to (try to) close again. This is not the case with drawbridges, which crush anything and everything below them when they close.

:*'''Automated barriers & traps'''
::You can automate a barrier or trap by using a [[pressure plate]] instead of a lever, but there are complications there. Only "enemies" or wild creatures will trigger a pressure plate - your dwarves and tame animals can walk on it all day long. Also, no device, trap or barrier, can be constructed in a tile where a pressure plate is - that is the only constructed object that can be there. But with creativity, this can still be a powerful addition to your fortress defense.

===Traps===
{{main|Trap design}}
The most reliable way to stop intruders is lots of [[trap]]s, which, large or small, can become an essential part of your fortification design. A line of traps can wipe out an entire ambush, and inflict significant damage on a siege. A thief's trap avoidance is subject to chance, so the more the better. However, be aware that vast numbers of traps have the potential to take some of the [[fun]] and challenge out of the game - use accordingly.

There are several types of [[trap]]s that a [[mechanic]] can place in a single tile and that target a single creature, but there are larger, more complex traps that only you can design, using [[lever]]s or [[pressure plate]]s. (See [[Trap design]].)

Note that a few creatures and enemies have the "trap avoid" token, potentially negating this defense against them.

===Military===
{{main|Military}}
A [[sparring|trained]], [[weapon|armed]], and [[armor]]ed [[military]] is the only way to bring the fight to the enemy. Building defenses to keep them safe is easy - keeping military ready and in position is the tricky part.

A sufficiently large military can be used as a reactive force to rescue ambushed dwarves and safeguard the passage of caravans thru unknown dangers, or even to sally out and meet a sieging force ''mano a mano''. The disadvantages are many - soldiers must physically move to the conflict zone which may be many screens away from the nearest entrance to your fortress, by which point dwarven lives may have already been lost. And while squad organization may make ordering a large army easier, a squad commander who is sleeping, eating, or drinking prevents his entire squad from responding. At best, an army should be considered supplemental for defending dwarves outside your fortress.See [[Military design]] for different options.

===Animals===
Any animal (or dwarf) can act as a sentry - if a hidden enemy comes adjacent to them, that enemy is revealed and an [[announcement]] is generated and the game paused (even by wild animals!). Most animals aren't strong enough to take more than one armoured goblin warrior, and enemies with bows are even worse. The real purpose of guard animals is to spot thieves. Anything will do here, even a kitten will do the job, and some players prefer not to risk a useful animal. ''

Guard animals are a good second line of defense in open entrances after your traps. A wardog can usually tear a thief apart, and will delay goblin warriors while you respond. Also, the death of any animal will be [[announcement|announced]] (but the game will not pause), alerting you to the threat if you were not already aware of it. (Note - Some [[tame]]d animals will not fight goblins!)''

Most enemies will go after your animals just as blindly as they attack your dwarves. An expendable chained animal can bait enemies into dangerous passages, even into places unconnected to your fortress. Such an animal chained out on the far side of the map can alert you to ambushes that start there before they threaten your local dwarves.

[[Restrain]] animals in narrow corridors (width 1 or 2), or in matched pairs against the walls of 3-wide corridors, preferably in places where enemy archers can't easily fire at them.

===Siege engines===
{{main|Siege engine}}
Siege engines take some planning to use effectively. Both catapults and ballistae can be very deadly, but both have their drawbacks. The most important factors are 1) that, unlike [[crossbow]]s, both can only fire at targets on the same [z-level]], and 2) that they are manned by civilians who will flee if any enemy gets too close. (See [[siege weapon]] for full information and suggestions.)

==Considerations==
Now you know what you might face, and what cards you have in your hand. To that we add complications, things that make defense so much [[fun]]...

===Surface jobs===
There are many times when dwarfs want to work on the surface. [[Wood cutting]], [[gathering plants]], [[hunting]], [[fishing]], [[mining]] exposed [[vein]]s or gems, building defenses or other structures, [[grower|growing]] above-ground [[crop]]s, [[Health care|helping wounded comrades]] or recovering dropped items are only the most likely. Often they are alone and vulnerable to [[creature|wild beasts]] or [[ambush]]es.

You can try to wall in huge areas of the map, possibly with drawbridge gates that can open for Caravans, but the larger the area the vaster the project, the further your dwarves will be from existing defenses, and another example of dwarves working above ground.

Making smaller enclosures in key areas with underground tunnels leading to them can be easier as a first step. Likewise, tunneling to the inside of an exposed vein of ore keeps your miners sealed from the outside until you are prepared to mine the last tiles, possibly after placing doors or walls just inside that tunnel.

Having military stationed or patrolling nearby is another option.

===Water sources===
Access to [[water]] can be vital. Wounded dwarves need water, so if there's not an underground water source you'll lose valuable soldiers to thirst. Try to have a [[well]] or cistern your dwarves can use safely. Remember to keep an extra [[bucket]] or two available.

Some water sources are good locations for [[fishing]], providing food during longer sieges.

===Civilians stay underground===
This setting, in the [[Standing_orders|orders and options]] menu is the easiest way to keep your non-military dwarves out of sight of the enemy. It is far from perfect, as dwarves will do the "entrance dance" - they will attempt to leave the fortress, and only cancel jobs once they reach the surface, as defined by the first "above ground" tiles they hit. Having entries with a "skylight" a distance before the actual exit can solve this - and building walls around the skylight prevents archers from shooting down into it. Doesn't protect against flying creatures, though.

Similarly, keep in mind that the military access to defensive chokepoints should be outside. If you try to set up your defense at the edge of your underground area, ordering your civilian dwarves to "stay inside" has the result that your carefully designed "kill zone" will be chock full of your own dwarves at the critical moment.

It takes a truly airtight fortress to turn this setting off while there are still enemies outside. It's only safe to turn this setting off once the drawbridges and such have sealed off your fortress entirely. If there's even one exit, your dwarves will use it. Try testing this while it's safe: Raise the bridges, just like you would in a siege, and designate some trees for cutting. If there's a way out, your woodcutters will find it.

* '''Screen the entrance.''' Build a simple wall around your entryway. This will keep your dwarves safe from enemy fire while doing the entrance dance.

* '''Seal the entrance.''' Prevents the entry dance, but also blocks your soldiers, which can trap them underground.

* '''Forbid dropped equipment and corpses.''' Mark every item on the battlefield as [[forbidden]]. This includes any items dropped by dead merchants or scuttled wagons. You can have this done automatically for dwarf and enemy corpses and inventories in the '''orders''' {{key|o}} menu at the '''forbid options''' {{key|F}}.

* '''Delete stockpiles and turn off tombs.''' As a preemptive measure, you can easily delete your Graveyard [[stockpile]]s. Dwarves don't haul things if there's no stockpile to place them in. Turning off or removing [[coffin]]s stops burials as well.

* '''Keep them busy.''' Make a bunch of busy-work for your dwarves, just to keep them underground. It's not perfect but it helps. Time to re-organize your stockpiles.

===Civilians trapped outdoors===
Anything that blocks intruders will also block your dwarves. This can cause the problem of dwarves being trapped outside with the enemy, and the enemy ''will'' find them. Having more than one entrance can be useful here, but each requires adequate defenses - the weakest link and all that. If you make these entrances accessible by drawbridge only, with a (short) moat outside that, and keep the drawbridge up most of the time, having lots of entrances shouldn't be too much of a problem.

===Trade depot & caravans===
Factoring in a 3-tile wide access to the [[trade depot]] adds a layer of complexity. Letting merchants in while keeping enemies out requires a careful balance. The merchants can reveal ambushes and thieves like any other creature, and they can arrive in the middle of a [[siege]]. If they do, they can be slaughtered before reaching your doors, and that hurts you, (as well as possibly causing your civilian dwarfs to want to go running out and collect their dropped items.) Consider sending heavily armoured escorts when expecting a caravan.

Only [[wagon]]s need a three tile wide path to the depot, so the [[elves]] and some of the dwarven and human merchants can still get through if it's only 1-tile wide. You will possibly want to build the depot underground, so civilian dwarves can access the depot and goods. Wagons can't use stairs, so you need a three-tile [[ramp]], unless you can dig into the face of a cliff.

===Branching corridors===
Enemies will take the most direct path to your fortress, (even if it's not very direct at all). You can use this to your advantage. Have two paths to the fortress: a long, twisting, three-wide road, and a shorter, one tile wide, trap-filled passage. Attackers will usually prefer the short and deadly path. This makes a good line of fire for a ballista, too.

Alternately, you can have a primary, convenient, direct 3-wide path to your fortress open most of the time, with a convoluted detour that is forced (by drawbridges) only during sieges, lined with traps and overseen by marksdwarves. The possibilities are infinite.

===Levers===
Be careful where you place the [[lever]]s controlling your various entrances, traps and other defenses. Or any lever at all, for that matter. Make sure they are either central or close to locations of idle dwarfs, or both - near a [[meeting area]] or bedrooms of [[nobles]] is often a good plan. Make sure that the entire path to each lever is [[underground]] or your dwarves might be unable to reach them if told to "stay underground" (test this during peacetime!) Try putting all your defense-related levers in a single room, perhaps down a staircase from your meeting area, and put a door (or hatch) on the entrance(s). Then you can lock your lever-puller inside to ensure rapid response time.

Another solution to the problem of rapid response time is to make your lever room double as a [[Screw pump|pump]] room. Pumping is a good way to build up your dwarves' [[Attribute|attributes]] regardless of whether the pump is doing work or not. If you want a dedicated lever operator or three, turn off all their labors except pumping, and set the pumps up so that they can be operated exclusively by your dedicated lever operators. Rotate these positions every so often so the attribute gain will be distributed among multiple dwarves.

For the truly ambitious, the lever room could be spread over multiple levels, and the pumps could work together to power one or more artificial [[Waterfall|waterfalls]]. (Waterfalls work well in this case because their operation is not fortress-critical, and your dwarves like the mist they produce.)

Use [[Notes]] to label each lever and attached device and trap clearly - if you come back to a game after a week and can't remember your levers, they are useless (or, worse, dangerous!) Color code your levers with different color [[stone]] if that works for you.

==General Suggestions==

===First concerns===

====pre-embark decisions====
Defense starts before the game does, at embark when you're choosing your location, your dwarves' starting skill mixes, and your starting equipment and supplies. If you expect trouble (an evil biome, perhaps), then it can be crucial to bring at least one axe. Picks make decent weapons, and a dwarf with the proper mix of [[ambusher]] skill starts with a [[Ambusher#Free equipment|free equipment]] - a suit of [[leather armour]], a [[crossbow]] and several dozen steel [[bolt]]s. A supply of wood means you don't have to chop trees for a while, and similarly a few simple stone (a few [[bauxite]]?) allows you to make immediate workshops even before your miner has swung her pick. While an untrained dwarf can usually wrestle most small and medium beasts, one unarmored (semi-)military dwarf with an axe or crossbow can be a big edge against most early threats.

For most starts, unless your embark location is very close to a [[chasm]] mouth or open [[magma vent]], or you are starting in an [[evil]] biome ''(and that is only recommended for experienced players, so why are you reading this?)'', there should be no serious immediate threats. Unless you are at [[war]] with a civilization (visible on the pre-embark screen), sieges and ambushes don't start until you've created some wealth, the first winter at the earliest. So wild animals are your only concern, predators that might prey on lone dwarfs and thieving animals that will target your valuables.

====Striking the earth====
First, look around. At the terrain, at the animals present. Scan the {{k|u|| menu before un-pausing the game at the start, and regularly. More animals will enter the map, constantly and without warning, so keep an eye on visitors.

One of your first priorities is to get things underground or otherwise secure, to prevent rot but also to prevent theft. Carving out a channel/moat, or removing the slopes to a hill, or building a wall, or a combination of those will work fine, but better if you don't have an unwanted entrance to wall up later. Soil is very fast to dig out, and just as strong against enemies, but may not be desirable for a later, mature fortress. Balance convenience against your long-range plans and visible threats.

Consider and plan the entrance to your fortress - perhaps a ramp leading down, or a tunnel into the side of a hill or cliff. A long, narrow entrance (a valley and/or tunnel) allows you to control it, with archers, with traps, with a siege engine at the end. It gives you time to prepare your military. However, it also means that your dwarfs will have to walk that entire distance every time they enter and leave your fortress, and be that much further from help should they need it. Entrances vary from a few tiles to a many dozen. Start with something smaller for now, but plan on how to develop the entrance you want later.

An L-bend, or several, or drops in z-level may provide better security, or a firing platform for siege engines and/or archers. Many complex traps involve several levels beneath the entrance (for drainage of liquids or other diabolical purposes.) Using some of the principles above, it might look something like this...

#####################
(a) ? (-trap .....#
? area-) . .# (A's/SE)
################....#
# #
#D D#
# #
<Inner Fortress>
<sub>(Not to Scale)</sub>

(a) = bait animal, on [[restrain]]t
# = tunnel walls, above-ground walls, valley walls with slopes removed, and/or channels
? = ramp up, drawbridge, moat, defensive structures, or combination of all
traps = mechanic's traps and/or complex death traps, as you wish.
....
. . = area open to sky, to prevent "dwarves staying inside" from archers outside entrance
....
D = wardog on [[restrain]]t
(A's/SE)= future site for archers and/or [[siege engine]]s (planning ahead)

The above might be longer or shorter, partially or entirely above or below ground, or have more turns. The "inner fortress" might only be a Trade Depot, with another similar entryway behind that. Instead of the turn, it might drop a level and dive below the sight of the Siege Engines. Since the first caravan won't arrive for at least 6 months, you can dig a 1-tile wide tunnel for now, or a staircase, and then dig out to another location for a more formal entrance. This is only a very rough, very simple example of combining possibilities.

====It's mine!====
Consider how you will secure your valuables, your entrance, and any land you want to claim as "dwarf only" - by channeling, removing the slopes from nearby hills, maybe walls? At first, consider including at least enough above-ground terrain for any [[farm plot]]s and [[meeting area]]s. This could perhaps be as small as a 5x5 walled enclosure, or be multiple compounds, but some players aim at claiming (most of) the entire map. Any barrier limits your dwarfs, but keeps enemies out until you have your fortress up and running at a basic level and are prepared to respond properly. Due to thieves' ability to get past locked doors, and a caravan needing a path that's 3-wide, you won't be able to create a hard "gate" that you can open and shut until you have a [[mechanic's workshop]] and some [[mechanism]]s for levers, to link to a [[drawbridge]].

====Inside vs. outside====
Not "above ground" vs "subterranean", but the border where the inside of your fortress starts, what you claim as "yours" vs "out there". Some fortresses just have one main gate, some try to own the entire map. Some have an "airlock", a middle ground (remembering multiple, layered defenses!) where a Trade Depot is kept, that visitors can access and is protected, but then a deeper, even more secure inner fortress - think of a castle courtyard - inside the walls but not yet inside the castle itself. A safe zone for friends, still unfriendly for enemies but taking extra precautions against full intrusion.

This can be above ground or deep underground, a direct line or a maze of z-levels - that's all up to you, how much work you think "security" is worth. Hey, it's not like ''you'' have to do the heavy lifting.

That line of defense - any line - can be passive (walls and barriers and traps only) or active, with military, either on permanent duty or with stations to report to when activated. Remote controlled bridges create movable walls and closed gates or open hidden moats to reroute visitors, enemies and/or your dwarves depending on the situation, so there is no one "configuration", but several different options all side by side.

====Mechanic's traps====
Traps are a good friend for the starting player. We're talking the simple traps that a mechanic places - complex death traps are up to you. Stone traps are a good start - they're easy, effective against all but the biggest creatures, and ammo is plentiful if you're mining in stone. When goblins show, they can number less than a dozen to start, but grow over time. Start with a row in an early chokepoint, maybe your entry hall or outside it, make that one row into a few, and go from there. But lead your target - count on the next attack being larger than the last.

If you want to breed monkeys for skin, bone and meat, or amuse yourself with live goblins, a row or five of cage traps at the very entrance of your fort would be a good start. Leave room for this when you place your stone traps - killing the monkeys first won't allow live monkeys to be caged. (You still get the meat & etc from those corpses, just not breeding stock.)

As your dwarfs creates weapons, as you trade for them, or (later) as you gather those of your fallen enemies, [[weapon trap]]s will become attractive. There is no hard rule or formula for all this - be creative.

====Complex traps====
Between levers, pressure plates, water and magma, much fun can be had. But this article won't deal with any specifics. (See [[Trap design]] for those.) We will say - plan ahead. Think about what you might want to do, and leave ample room for it, in all 3 dimensions.

====Military====
To start, you will probably have few if any full-time military standing guard over your dwarfs - there is just too much to do at first, and serious threats are (hopefully) several seasons away. If you are going to make weapons and armor, have stockpiles near where your draftees work and rest, perhaps near an entrance/exit, but not so close that it might get over-run before your dwarfs can equip. Eventually you might have perhaps a quarter (or more or less) of your dwarfs as full-time military, and they'll need a barracks where they will sleep and practice, archery ranges if that's their weapon of choice, and quick, safe routes to their battle stations or patrol areas. When to begin a full-time military presence is personal choice and influenced by your game situation, but plan on eventually having them live and practice near where they will be fighting as much as possible. See [[Military Design]] for a more complete discussion on planning and deploying military and militia.

==Different philosophies==
There are many, ''many'' ways to play DF. Some players play hard and tight, and some fast and loose. Some take no risks and protect every last dwarf and cat, and others happily leave a highway of dwarf and animal bodies for the next immigration wave to follow. Some live for the slaughter of ascii goblins, and others for the mega-project. No one "defense" will serve everyone's tastes.

===Losing is fun===
There is no final "win" in Dwarf Fortress, no end point or Easter egg that says "Congratulations!" - it just keeps going, until, inevitably and unavoidably, you will lose. That's part of the game. So it's all about how you play until then, and finding your type of fun in that process.

==="Fun" vs. security===
It's not hard to create an acre of traps that, realistically, simply no threats can survive. If you want to pursue a megaproject (that is not a defensive trap) in peace and security, this may be a good plan. However, if you look forward to the military end of things, then you want to allow, or at least invite combat. New players are recommended to use the hall-of-traps entryway, at least to start. Many experienced players challenge themselves by limiting their use of simple traps, or other voluntary handicaps. It's all about what you think is [[fun]].

For more specific suggestions, see also:

:* [[Trap design]] (for specific suggestions, descriptions and blueprints for traps)
:* [[Defense design]] (for specific suggestions, descriptions and blueprints for fortress layout)
:* [[Military design]] (for specific suggestions and suggestions for organizing soldiers & military)

==See also==
* [[Defense design]]
* [[Trap design]]
* [[Military design]]

[[Category:Guides]]
[[Category:Fortress defense| ]]
[[Category:World]]
[[Category:Design]]

40d:Trap design

2009-06-05T13:31:48Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Mechanic's traps */ revising section

This page is one of several inter-related articles on the broader topic of defending your fortress and your dwarves. This page will focus on the theory and design of complex traps, mechanical systems and other automation for defending your fortress, and also on unusual uses of simple mechanic's [[trap]]s.

See the [[Defense guide|Defense guide]] for a general overview of threats and considerations for fortress defense.

For suggestions on training, organizing and deploying soldiers and militia, see [[Military design]].

Many defenses rely on complex traps as a central component, that are, essentially, the defense themselves. For designs that could be adapted to use any complex trap, see [[Defense design]].

----

:'''''Editors & Contributors''' - Please see top of [[Talk:Trap design|discussion page]] before posting.''

=Introduction=
Complex traps and automation rely on linking doors, hatches, floodgates, bridges and mechanic's traps to levers or pressure plates. When the trigger is activated, it sends a signal to the linked device. That signal is not "toggle", but it's specifically either to "open" or to "close". By manipulating what does what and when, impressive results can be achieved.

To fully understand how these component objects work individually (before combining them into diabolical and complex combinations), see those articles.

=Basic traps=
These are the simple [[trap]]s that are placed by a mechanic. They require one [[mechanism]] but do not require levers or triggers. They can be a "first defense" for a fledgling fortress, but they can also be combined into key parts of more complex set ups.

Note that, in combat situations, [[Mechanic]]s (and others) have a nasty habit of wanting to clean or reload traps when they are triggered, regardless of who or what might be out there as well. [[Forbid]]ding traps after they are built will keep [[Urist|Urist McGoblinBait]] from deciding to reload a stone trap in the middle of a [[siege]]. Just remember to unforbid them when things calm down, so the traps are all ready for next time. Or keep all traps [[Help! My dwarves keep running into combat!|unreachable]] with drawbridges or orders.

Simple traps will also be triggered if your own dwarves or pets fall unconscious on them.

==Stone fall trap==
This is the easiest trap to build, so you can easily build them in large numbers. Building lots of them is an easy way to earn experience for your [[mechanic]], and add to the depth of your fort's defenses at the same time. Surround every intersection and stairway.

==Cage trap==
:A very powerful type of trap. Maybe even too powerful - currently, even a wooden or glass [[cage]] can hold indefinitely any creature, even trolls and megabeasts. Also, a cage trap never fails. A large creature can shrug off damage from a stone or weapon trap, but nothing can escape from a cage. Use cage traps as your outermost traps to catch the occasional wandering animal, or angry wounded [[elephant]] or [[unicorn]], or even [[zombie]]s.

By connecting a trapped animal in a cage to a lever, you can remotely release that animal. (Note - not all wild beasts will attack goblins.)

==Weapon trap==
:The gold standard of lethal traps. This is the only simple trap that works repeatedly without reloading. They do get jammed, however. View the trap with the '''items in room''' {{key|t}} mode, and if there's a corpse inside the trap, it's jammed. None of the weapons on a jammed trap will function. It may be wiser to have several weapon traps with fewer weapons, rather than a smaller number of ten-weapon traps.

Using [[crossbow]]s in weapon traps avoids the problem of jamming, but they must be kept loaded with [[ammo]]. Hammers seem to jam less than swords or axes, and spears seem to jam the most. Your dwarves will attempt to unjam traps unless otherwise forbidden.

=Linked traps=
These traps require a trigger such as a [[pressure plate]] or [[lever]] pull. They will require at least three [[mechanisms]], one for the trigger and two to create the link. The trigger can be located any distance from the trap, typically close for a pressure plate or far away for a lever.

==Menacing Spikes==
Menacing [[spike]]s or upright spears can be activated remotely to pop out of the ground and impale anyone standing on that tile. Vast forests of these can make any area a killing field.

They will not jam. They are very deadly to everything including your dwarves and animals. Steel ones are fireproof.

Try planting a bunch of Upright Spear/Spikes in your main hallway, and link them all up to one lever. When invaders come near, give the order to pull the lever, but set it to Repeat. The lever will continuously be pulled and the spikes come up and down repeatedly, perforating most enemies in seconds. Note that this takes a lot of time and mechanisms to build.

==Dropping the Hammer==
Lowering [[drawbridge]]s on invaders will crush them.

Try replacing the side wall of a part of your main entranceway with a drawbridge, big enough so it spans the whole hallway. To prevent enemies from wrecking it, you could dig a channel in front of it so its protected while its raised. Link the drawbridge up to a pressure plate or lever, whatever you prefer. Whenever you feel like it, activate the trap, and watch the drawbridge fall directly into the hall, utterly squashing anything beneath it. This can be done with minimal effort and used to smash invaders, unwanted immigrants, nobles, or simply to destroy your garbage. This is based on the 'Dwarven Atom Smasher' device mentioned elsewhere in the wiki.

==Intentional Cave-in==
[[Support]]s can be linked to triggers. Building a section of floor that is deliberately held up only by a trapped support allows for an intentional [[cave-in]].
* Invaders dropped into a pit can be wounded or killed. Or, in the case of a [[chasm]], vanished entirely.
* Dropping a rock floor on invaders will likewise do harm.
* The cave-in will also knock nearby invaders unconscious. This will stun them, and also make them susceptible to simple traps (even if normally immune).

=Trap strategies=
==Bait animals==
Enemies will hunt down and kill friendly tame animals wandering outside if they have nothing better to do. Put a puppy on a chain in some random spot outside, build a few columns around it to reduce the chance of them shooting it, and trap that area to hell and back. Also known as the "Tar Baby" strategy.

==Obstacle Course==
Combining some intentional cave-ins, lots of cage traps, some weapon and stone fall traps, channels, and pressure plates is a sure-fire way to fend off an invading goblin army.

==Circular path trap==
Create a small area preferably 1 tile wide, and channel it out leaving one support under it. This MUST be connected to your base by a bridge so enemies will take it. Place a pressure plate at the end, linked to the support and another bridge into your fortress. line this area with weapon traps and line the exits of the subterranean area underneath this with cage traps. The area underneath must also lead to your base so the enemies will walk into the cages. then build another area just like this except have the entrance bridge be retracted/raised and have the first pressure plate link to it, so it is an endless game of cat and mouse (sort of)

==Scattered traps==
Another options for outside defenses is scattered traps. Most hostile forces will flee if they take enough casualties, and stone-fall traps can be quite damaging to goblins and are easy to set up. Cage traps work even on [[Bronze colossus|Bronze Colossi]] and [[Dragon]]s. You just have to make sure your dwarves working outside actually stay near your traps - a fisherdwarf who goes wandering screens away from the nearest trap is not protected. A wall of traps is a passive threat to injure, kill or capture enemies who will happily walk right into them.

=Damage traps=
These complex traps are designed to kill or maim.

=Water traps=
These traps drown or wash targets away. Carelessness can cause an entire fortress to flood and be lost. Use with caution.

=== a water trap ===
'''Level 0'''
<pre>
=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=
-|>|.|.|\|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|/|.|.|-|>
-|>|.|.|\|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|/|.|.|-|>
-|>|.|.|\|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|/|.|.|-|>
=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=</pre>

'''Level -1'''
<pre>
=|=|=|=|=|=|X|X|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|X|X|=|=|=|=|=|=
=|=|\|.|.|\|_|_|/|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|\|_|_|/|.|.|/|=|=
=|=|\|.|.|\|_|_|/|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|\|_|_|/|.|.|/|=|=
=|=|\|.|.|\|_|_|/|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|\|_|_|/|.|.|/|=|=
=|=|=|=|=|=|X|X|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|X|X|=|=|=|=|=|=</pre>

'''Level -2'''
<pre>
=|=|=|=|=|=|x|x|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|x|x|=|=|=|=|=|=
=|=|=|=|=|\|.|.|/|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|\|.|.|/|=|=|=|=|=
=|=|=|=|=|\|.|.|/|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|\|.|.|/|=|=|=|=|=
=|=|=|=|=|\|.|.|/|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|\|.|.|/|=|=|=|=|=
=|=|=|=|=|=|x|x|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|x|x|=|=|=|=|=|=</pre>

*<tt>=</tt> - Wall
*<tt>.</tt> - Floor
*<tt>_</tt> - open Space
*<tt>\</tt> - ramp (direction should be clear)
*<tt>X</tt> - Inflow
*<tt>x</tt> - Outflow

If enemies are in the middle of Level -1, open the inflow, then the water will first trap, and then drown them. If the pit is full, close the in- and open the outflow. You can automate this by using pressure plates, or if you want to have more fun, replace the water with magma (pressure plates and floodgates have to be magma-save then).

=Magma traps=
These traps incinerate targets, or possibly encase them in obsidian. Magma does not play favorites - read up (again) on [[magma]], and use with ''extreme'' caution.

=Automation & misc trap designs=
==Chasm trap==
The easiest chasm trap is just a retractable bridge, very high up or over a very deep hole; instead of flinging invaders when raised, it just drops them.

A more complicated collapsing spiral trap can take out ten goblins at a time. When finished, it looks like this:
<pre>
------------
-++++++++#++
-+=======-
-+=++++++-
-+=+====+-
-+=+=D+=+-
-+=+==+=+-
-+=++^+=+-
-+======+-
-++++++++-
------------
</pre>
The goblins are lured in by a bait animal (here, a chained donkey), and can't shoot it due to the surrounding walls. Just before they reach the donkey, they trigger a pressure plate that retracts the bridge and collapses the support holding up the whole spiral. Goblins, donkey, walls, and all plummet into the chasm.

When building, you will need to build a span of floor underneath, for the support. You will also need to have a floor tile between your floor and solid ground, as the bridge alone will not work as a base, but you can remove it once the support is in place.

==Bridge Land Mines==

Although this takes quite a few mechanisms and a lot of carpenters to pull of, you might be able to create a minefield on a bridge, create a very long moat and a bridge crossing it, make sure this bridge is not your outermost bridge, this bridge should be at least 20 squares long, but make sure it is no more than 4 squares wide. then set up a ton of pressure plates in a checkered pattern, build a floor above the bridge, and make supports next to the pressure plates, then remove the floor tiles not on the supports, destroy the up-stairs on to the floor, and link all your pressure plates to a support, as soon as a goblin walks on them, the floor caves in and makes an explosion knocking him and the friends he has near him off the bridge drowning them.

This should not be used as the only defense, make sure you have other traps at the ready in case of large [[siege]]s

NOTE: This is a very expensive creation and should only be used late in the game when you can spare lots of stone/wood/mechanisms. the bigger the bridge the more effective the trap

Retract [[bridge]] 2 to force invaders to take the long way, first running along the wall (to the west in this diagram) and then zig-zagging back for maximum exposure to your ranged units on the walls above them. The pits at the base of the walls are necessary to target down one z-level at enemy units.

''(Note - [[Trader]]s will NOT stop at your fortress unless there is a clear, 3-wide path to a [[Trade Depot]] when they arrive. Bridge 2 should be kept down if you want/expect Traders.)''

Bridges 1 and 3 can be put down to allow enemies into this pit entrance, then retracted again to trap them in the kill zone. Note - Attackers must have a complete "path" to where they want to go, so bridge 3 must be down to lure them in.

[[Category:Guides]]
[[Category:Fortress defense| ]]
[[Category:World]]
[[Category:Design]]

40d Talk:Thief

2009-06-05T11:14:31Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* "Some thieves can bypass traps" */ TRAPAVOID

== Thieves unseen by other hostiles ==

Fun fact, I created a veritable rancor pit in my fortress by placing a Titan cage in a large chamber, then sealing off the entrance, and using pressure plates + retracting bridges to drop hapless goblins into the pit. Strangely enough, whenever I have a goblin thief dumped inside, the Titan ignores them, while blissfully painting the walls red with Goblin Wrestler blood. So if you expect to use a Megabeast or other fun creature(s) to execute thieves, don't bother. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 01:27, 7 January 2009 (EST)

== Goes through walls? ==

I just had a sock and a sandal stolen from my fortress. All of my gates were raised, and there were no other way into the fortress. (No tunnels or such leading to outside the walls). --[[User:Myroc|Myroc]] 12:16, 15 February 2009 (EST)

:The stolen message occurs when the thief leaves the map, not when it picks the item up, so if its plausible he stole it and escaped before you sealed the fortress, and then left the map afterwards... Also, if there are dead goblin clothes laying outside (or dead merchant/dwarf clothes) - thieves will also steal those. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:26, 15 February 2009 (EST)
::I don't know, i've had my fortress sealed up for quite a while. --[[User:Myroc|Myroc]] 16:01, 15 February 2009 (EST)
:::It could be that you had something, no '''anything''' lying around outside. These guys steal your fired bolts, right?--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 16:52, 15 February 2009 (EST)
::::Except there were no socks or sandals lying outside the walls, only bolts. --[[User:Myroc|Myroc]] 10:11, 16 February 2009 (EST)
:::::Oh, I didn't see that part. Whoops. Um, in that case I have no idea how this would happen. I'm rather certain they can't go through walls, as they are no different from a normal creature. Go check the raws, and see if it has anything "funny" in for kobolds.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 10:22, 16 February 2009 (EST)

== "Some thieves can bypass traps" ==

This phrase seems to imply that it's only a rare breed of thieves that bypass traps, but I've got an entire tunnel of 30+ layers of cage traps, and I've watched kobold thieves run in and out with impunity (though they've never made it through the war dog pit for obvious reasons). Would stonefall / weapon traps work better, or are they just completely immune? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 03:59, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
:If I remember correctly, Kobold thieves will always walk right through traps regardless of type. I'm not sure if goblins will or not. Theres something in the raws like trap immune or something along those lines, so those creatures will only trigger traps by falling unconscious on them, if then. --[[User:Silver|Silver]] 06:17, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
::If this is just an urban rumour, or a legacy of versions long past, it should be expunged. Would take some research/experimentation (or someone who knows how to read the data files, ahem).--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:08, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
: Raws have the flag TRAPAVOID for [[kobold]]s, [[gremlin]]s, and other things too dark to mention[[Demon|.]] In personal experience, a kobold has slipped in through a previously locked door (now "TAKEN BY INTRUDER") and another past a cage and weapon trap, before being confronted. Version 40d. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:14, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== Revamp plan ==

I plan on revamping this page later today or tomorrow. Things I plan on adding/changing:

-Distinguishing snatchers/thieves

-Defense against thieves

-Why thieves come, what they lead to

-Races/types of thieves

-etc.

Anything else you guys can think of? I also want to add some facts, such as artifacts being able to be stolen, etc. <sub>unsigned by [[User:SirPenguin]]</sub>

:Add your sig? ;D Quick bullet points of thieves here: [[Defense guide#Threats]] The phrase ''"Some thieves can bypass traps as well"'' is annoyingly vague - any expansion/clarification on that? Threat assessment in combat, re those knives? (I believe a wardog or untrained wrestler can usually take them, but also often with some lower level of injury.) Confirm/refute the ability to bypass doors linked to levers? (this may take testing.) Comment on thieves sneaking in w/ caravans when "door is open". I'd say keep side comment on "animal thieves" as is - about right imo. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:11, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

::I'd say the article should go
::-Types of thieves (races, levels, etc., include animals here)
::-Defense against thieves
::-Maybe why thieves come and what they lead to.
::It seems to me that the Distinguishing snatchers/thieves is redundant with the different types of thieves. Also, the Why thieves come and what they lead to could be explained in the introduction, unless there is a great deal more to this then "Thieves come if you have neighboring civilizations of the appropriate race. More wealth will generally lead to more thieves. If a fortress suffers enough successful thefts, the civilization may send ambushes". But anyways, go for it. The article definitely needs a rewrite. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 18:54, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
:::After thought - use the "What links here" link (in sidebar at bottom-left) to view those comments, and see if anything triggers any additional topics/points that should be addressed.

40d Talk:Magnetite

2009-06-05T11:05:50Z

Jellyfishgreen: $0.02

Was this named after the Pokemon? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:27, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:heh. Twas named after [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetite the mineral]. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:59, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

I'm curious why the bit about other ores in sheets was removed, rather than moved to the real world section? It is slightly tangential, but I think it's still basically on point. It also is more accurate, since the statement about magnetite being the only processable ore in large sheets, while correct with respect to an unmodified game, is somewhat misleading. This wiki has plenty of interesting but tangential facts like this, and I think it's the better for them. --[[User:Oddrune|Oddrune]] 04:18, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
:Not sure what bauxite has to do with magnetite, nor what sylvite or potassium have to do with DF. The policy of the wiki is not to address modifications, since those are literally infinite in possibility. (Every page would have a section stating ''"Oh, btw - anything else is also possible..."'') In vanilla DF, this statement on magnetite sums it up. Anyone reading the articles on mods knows that anything is possible beyond that.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:49, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
::You're not sure what bauxite has to do with magnetite? The article mentions magnetite as being an ore that exists in sheets. Bauxite is an ore. It exists in sheets. Sylvite is an ore. It exists in sheets. It's pertinent even in the un-modified game in the real-world geology section. It clarifies the statement about magnetite being the only ore to exists in sheets. Magnetite is the only PROCESSABLE ore to exist in sheets (bauxite and sylvite being examples of UNPROCESSABLE ores that exist in sheets). I think you're wrong on this, Albedo. --[[User:Oddrune|Oddrune]] 02:44, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

:::The problem with your view, Oddrune, is that this isn't a general knowledge source. It's a *highly* DF-centric source, and anything that contradicts DF should not be allowed to stay in. I don't even think the "real world" section is even appropriate. Anyone that's ever done a search on something, knows about Wikipedia. If people want to know the reality about something that's mimicked or presented in DF, they can go look it up in WP. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:51, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
::::Oddrune - Some of individual statements you make are true, but that doesn't make bauxite significant to, or add anything relevant to, an article on '''magnetite'''. It makes them both central to an article on what you call "sheets", but are in fact [[large clusters]] in DF. Raccoons and kobolds are both "thieves" - should we include a complete discussion of raccoons in the kobold article? Should we add a discussion of blowguns to siege weapons because they are both "missile weapons"? No, of course not.
::::What's more, bauxite and sylvite are '''not''' ores, they are stone - at least in Dwarf Fortress, and this is the DF wiki, a sort of manual for that game, not a RL encyclopedia. In DF, stone is not an "unprocessable ore" - the definition of an [[ore]] is that it ''is'' processable at a smelter into metal bars. Bauxite? Sylvite?... Not so much. As Edward says, this is not a RL encyclopedia - and even if it were, this article is on "magnetite", not sheets, not ores, not anything else. You need to consider the difference between "an element of something" and "a relationship between two different things" - the color red is an element of fire engines, but an article on fire engines should not to include, nor even have links to, everything else that is also "red". --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:33, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
::::I think magnetite/bauxite is a closer relation than blowgun/siege engine. That strikes me as employing hyperbole rather than reason to make a point. I'll also point out that this wiki does make a point of noting when DF and reality are in contradiction. In any case, I'll defer to the two of you, even though I think this kind of interesting fact has a place on the DF wiki.
::::Albedo, I do agree with changing 'sheets' to 'large clusters'. :) --[[User:Oddrune|Oddrune]] 07:06, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
::::: Bauxite in DF is a [[stone]] not an [[ore]], bauxite peculiarities should be on bauxite page. The page as it stands is good; the redirect to large clusters page is good. $0.02 --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:05, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Bedroom

2009-06-05T10:15:04Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Second bedroom */ new section

==Free bed==
what does the option "free bed" do? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 05:20, 8 February 2008 (EST)
:Why not just use it and see? Just as with other buildings - it will remove bedroom.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:31, 8 February 2008 (EST)
::my impression is it leaves the bed to be taken as bedroom by its first user, which is not clear from the article. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 19:12, 8 February 2008 (EST)
:::AFAIK, that's just one effect of freeing it when the economy is not started up yet. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 15:49, 4 February 2009 (EST)
:Gee Dorten - you hang out at a wiki, which is meant to document the features and commands of a game. Being told ''just suck it and see'' is probably not why many ppl come here!
:To answer Koltom - '''Free bed''' - the bed becomes unallocated, available for reallocation by the player or for being taken over by the next dwarf to use it.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:15, 9 February 2008 (EST)
::OK, I'm sorry... btw, 'freed' bed will not become bedroom by itself. It'll be counted as hospital bed, dwarves sleeping on it will have unhappy thought (slept without proper room)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:11, 10 February 2008 (EST)
:::Wow Dorten, still wrong. Healing of wounds is one use, yes, but the bed's just as available for any other dwarf without an assigned bed. (as GarrieIrons already pointed out) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:48, 12 February 2008 (EST)
::::He's not exactly wrong, he's just not stating what he means clearly. Using "Free Bed" on a bed (specifically, a bed that's being used as the "anchor" for designating a Bedroom) removes the Bedroom designation from the area that had previously been marked out. A bed that isn't in a designated Bedroom (either from that bed or another) is usable for sleeping, but will generate unhappy thoughts, as he mentioned. He is also saying that it will be given priority for use as a hospital bed - wounded Dwarves will be taken to these beds if available, rather than being put in a bedroom (I don't know if that part is true or not). --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 02:55, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

==Bedrooms and Furniture==

Do Dwarves have any issues with walking over furniture to get to other furniture? for example, if I have a 4x1 room, with a Cabinet behind a Bed, is that functionally the same as a 2x2 room with a Cabinet and a Bed? Or does the Bed cause any issues with a Dwarf trying to use the Cabinet? --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 02:49, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

:It doesn't appear so, to me. I've seen them roll across a room, right across a table someone was eating at, and neither of them seemed unhappy about it. The traveller was carrying an armor rack at the time. --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 03:15, 4 December 2008 (EST)

== Barracks ==

Dwarfs will seem to prefer sleeping on the floor of a barracks with no beds defined (thus a sparring ring) to an unroomed bed. Which is rather annoying since I don't want my fortress guard tearing shit up in my communal bedroom. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 15:03, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

Sparring and sleeping for soldiers will be seperated in a future version. For now, though, clearing more floor space might help, as might designating a barracks from a weapon rack or armour stand somewhere closer to the fortress meeting area/drink stockpile, as sparring dwarves seem to prefer this.

On a related note, soldiers and guards spend a lot of time in meeting areas, so placing a statue garden or the like right next one of these bedless barracks could have the benefit of both keeping your sleeping quarters from running red with blood, and allowing your dwarves to gain skill faster with a more efficent day! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 08:35, 6 November 2008 (EST)

:They only actually spar in the barracks itself though. And for whatever reason, sparring neither endangers anyone else who's in the room, nor even wakes them up if they're sleeping. I have a communal barracks that everyone sleeps in and aside from "sleeping without a proper room recently", no one seems to mind. Actually, it's my zoo as well. I can only imagine what it's like in there. ;-) --[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:03, 6 November 2008 (EST)

:A bedless barracks works FANTASTIC before the dwarven economy starts up. With all the room in the world to manuever and dodge, I trained over 20 dwarves to legendary wrestling and legendary in 1 weapon school without a single fatal accident or nerve damage injury. My homeless dwarves just slept in a separate room with a bunch of beds that I left unassigned. Once the economy starts up, though, dwarves will no longer sleep in unassigned beds, and you have to have some beds in your sparring area. :( Toady has said that barrack behavior is going to change with the completion of the army arc, so let's hope this won't be so after the next release. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 01:37, 7 November 2008 (EST)
==Thoughts about chests==

In the article it says dwarves get bad thoughts from not having a chest in their room. I've never seen this. 40d. I added a verify tag and also put a part about hunters sleeping whereever they want.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 19:41, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
:I have seen this. "has slept without a proper bedroom lately." It's either lacking furniture, or there's overlap with other rooms. I forget which cheating-the-dwarf-out-of-a-real-bedroom technique caused it. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 01:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
::It is not having a bedroom, and/or sleeping in a barracks or hospital bed. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]]
:::To clarify, "has slept without a proper bedroom lately" comes from sleeping in a barracks or a built but not a bedroom bed. I'm pretty sure that, once the [[economy]] starts, dwarves will get bad thoughts from not having chests in their rooms. I'm less sure what the text of that thought is, but I believe it's ''"was upset by not having enough chests lately"''. Don't quote me on that one though. It's been a while since I've bothered to get a fortress to economy level.--[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 05:09, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
::::The thoughts for sleeping in the dirt, mud, outside, or whatever, are (Don't quote me) different. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:18, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

== Second bedroom ==

So say I've assigned a second bedroom to my weaponsmith near the magma forge, without freeing their first bedroom. Does anyone know if they'll sleep in the nearest bedroom when sleepy, which would be nice for magma forge productivity, or if their preference is based on something else? --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 10:15, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

40d:Trap design

2009-06-04T20:54:55Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Automation & misc trap designs */ Collapsing spiral trap

This page is one of several inter-related articles on the broader topic of defending your fortress and your dwarves. This page will focus on the theory and design of complex traps, mechanical systems and other automation for defending your fortress, and also on unusual uses of simple mechanic's [[trap]]s.

See the [[Defense guide|Defense guide]] for a general overview of threats and considerations for fortress defense.

For suggestions on training, organizing and deploying soldiers and militia, see [[Military design]].

Many defenses rely on complex traps as a central component, that are, essentially, the defense themselves. For designs that could be adapted to use any complex trap, see [[Defense design]].

----

:'''''Editors & Contributors''' - Please see top of [[Talk:Trap design|discussion page]] before posting.''

=Introduction=
Complex traps and automation rely on linking doors, hatches, floodgates, bridges and mechanic's traps to levers or pressure plates. When the trigger is activated, it sends a signal to the linked device. That signal is not "toggle", but it's specifically either to "open" or to "close". By manipulating what does what and when, impressive results can be achieved.

To fully understand how these component objects work individually (before combining them into diabolical and complex combinations), see those articles.

=Mechanic's traps=
These use the simple traps that are placed by a mechanic, either individually or linked to levers or triggers. They can be a "first defense" for a fledgling fortress, but they can also be combined into key parts of more complex set ups.

'''Stone fall trap'''
:This is the easiest trap to build, so you can easily build them in large numbers. Building lots of them is an easy way to earn experience for your [[mechanic]], and add to your fort's defenses at the same time. Surround every intersection and stairway.

The only drawback is that if a [[wound]]ed dwarf falls unconscious on a trap, it ''will'' be triggered, doing even more damage.

'''Cage trap'''
:A very powerful type of trap. Maybe even too powerful - currently, even a wooden or glass [[cage]] can hold indefinitely any creature, even trolls and megabeasts. Also, a cage trap never fails. A large creature can shrug off damage from a stone or weapon trap, but nothing can escape from a cage. Use cage traps as your outermost traps to catch the occasional wandering animal. A wounded [[elephant]] or [[unicorn]] in your front courtyard is not good at all.

By connecting a trapped animal in a cage to a lever, you can remotely release that animal. (Note - not all wild beasts will attack goblins.)

'''Weapon trap'''
:The gold standard of lethal traps. This is the only simple trap that works repeatedly without reloading. They do get jammed, however. View the trap with the '''items in room''' {{key|t}} mode, and if there's a corpse inside the trap, it's jammed. None of the weapons on a jammed trap will function. It may be wiser to have several weapon traps with fewer weapons, rather than a smaller number of ten-weapon traps.

Using [[crossbow]]s in weapon traps avoids the problem of jamming, but they must be kept loaded with [[ammo]]. Hammers seem to jam less than swords or axes, and spears seem to jam the most.

====Menacing Spike====
Menacing spikes can be activated remotely to pop out of the ground and impale anyone standing on that tile. Vast forests of these can make any area a killing field. They can also be placed at the bottom of short drops to make the fall more deadly. Other, more subtle uses are also possible.

===Dropping the Hammer===
Replace the side wall of a part of your main entranceway with a drawbridge, big enough so it spans the whole hallway. To prevent enemies from wrecking it, you could dig a channel in front of it so its protected while its raised. Link the drawbridge up to a pressure plate or lever, whatever you prefer. Whenever you feel like it, activate the trap, and watch the drawbridge fall directly into the hall, utterly squashing anything beneath it. This can be done with minimal effort and used to smash invaders, unwanted immigrants, nobles, or simply to destroy your garbage. This is based on the 'Dwarven Atom Smasher' device mentioned elsewhere in the wiki.

===Forest of Spears===
Try planting a bunch of Upright Spear/Spikes in your main hallway, and link them all up to one lever. When invaders come near, give the order to pull the lever, but set it to Repeat. The lever will continuously be pulled and the spikes come up and down repeatedly, perforating most enemies in seconds. Note that this takes a lot of time and mechanisms to pull off.

===Tar Baby===
Enemies will hunt down and kill friendly tame animals wandering outside if they have nothing better to do. Put a puppy on a chain in some random spot outside, build a few columns around it to reduce the chance of them shooting it, and trap that area to hell and back.

===Obstacle Course===
Combined with some intentional cave-ins, lots of cage traps, some weapon and stone fall traps, combined with channels and pressure plates can be sure-fire way to fend off an invading goblin army.

Create a small area 1 tile wide prefferably, and channel it out leaving one support under it. This MUST be connected to your base by a bridge so enemies will take it. the place a pressure plate at the end, linked to the support and another bridge into your fortress. line this area with weapon traps and line the exits of the subterranean area underneath this with cage traps. the area underneath must also lead to your base so the enemies will walk into the cages. then build another area just like this except have the entrance bridge be retracted/raised and have the first pressure plate link to it, so it is an endless game of at and mouse (sort of)

===Scattered traps==
Another options for outside defenses is scattered traps. Most hostile forces will flee if they take enough casualties, and stone-fall traps can be quite damaging to goblins and are easy to set up. Cage traps work even on [[Bronze colossus|Bronze Colossi]] and [[Dragon]]s. You just have to make sure your dwarves working outside actually stay near your traps - a fisherdwarf who goes wandering screens away from the nearest trap is not protected. A wall of traps is a passive threat to injure, kill or capture enemies who will happily walk right over them.

=Damage traps=
These complex traps are designed to kill or maim.

=Water traps=
These traps drown or wash targets away. Carelessness can cause an entire fortress to flood and be lost. Use with caution.

=== a water trap ===
'''Level 0'''
<pre>
=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=
-|>|.|.|\|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|/|.|.|-|>
-|>|.|.|\|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|/|.|.|-|>
-|>|.|.|\|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|/|.|.|-|>
=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=</pre>

'''Level -1'''
<pre>
=|=|=|=|=|=|X|X|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|X|X|=|=|=|=|=|=
=|=|\|.|.|\|_|_|/|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|\|_|_|/|.|.|/|=|=
=|=|\|.|.|\|_|_|/|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|\|_|_|/|.|.|/|=|=
=|=|\|.|.|\|_|_|/|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|\|_|_|/|.|.|/|=|=
=|=|=|=|=|=|X|X|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|X|X|=|=|=|=|=|=</pre>

'''Level -2'''
<pre>
=|=|=|=|=|=|x|x|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|x|x|=|=|=|=|=|=
=|=|=|=|=|\|.|.|/|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|\|.|.|/|=|=|=|=|=
=|=|=|=|=|\|.|.|/|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|\|.|.|/|=|=|=|=|=
=|=|=|=|=|\|.|.|/|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|\|.|.|/|=|=|=|=|=
=|=|=|=|=|=|x|x|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|x|x|=|=|=|=|=|=</pre>

*<tt>=</tt> - Wall
*<tt>.</tt> - Floor
*<tt>_</tt> - open Space
*<tt>\</tt> - ramp (direction should be clear)
*<tt>X</tt> - Inflow
*<tt>x</tt> - Outflow

If enemies are in the middle of Level -1, open the inflow, then the water will first trap, and then drown them. If the pit is full, close the in- and open the outflow. You can automate this by using pressure plates, or if you want to have more fun, replace the water with magma (pressure plates and floodgates have to be magma-save then).

=Magma traps=
These traps incinerate targets, or possibly encase them in obsidian. Magma does not play favorites - read up (again) on [[magma]], and use with ''extreme'' caution.

=Automation & misc trap designs=
==Chasm trap==
The easiest chasm trap is just a retractable bridge, very high up or over a very deep hole; instead of flinging invaders when raised, it just drops them.

A more complicated collapsing spiral trap can take out ten goblins at a time. When finished, it looks like this:
<pre>
------------
-++++++++#++
-+=======-
-+=++++++-
-+=+====+-
-+=+=D+=+-
-+=+==+=+-
-+=++^+=+-
-+======+-
-++++++++-
------------
</pre>
The goblins are lured in by a bait animal (here, a chained donkey), and can't shoot it due to the surrounding walls. Just before they reach the donkey, they trigger a pressure plate that retracts the bridge and collapses the support holding up the whole spiral. Goblins, donkey, walls, and all plummet into the chasm.

When building, you will need to build a span of floor underneath, for the support. You will also need to have a floor tile between your floor and solid ground, as the bridge alone will not work as a base, but you can remove it once the support is in place.

==Bridge Land Mines==

Although this takes quite a few mechanisms and a lot of carpenters to pull of, you might be able to create a minefield on a bridge, create a very long moat and a bridge crossing it, make sure this bridge is not your outermost bridge, this bridge should be at least 20 squares long, but make sure it is no more than 4 squares wide. then set up a ton of pressure plates in a checkered pattern, build a floor above the bridge, and make supports next to the pressure plates, then remove the floor tiles not on the supports, destroy the up-stairs on to the floor, and link all your pressure plates to a support, as soon as a goblin walks on them, the floor caves in and makes an explosion knocking him and the friends he has near him off the bridge drowning them.

This should not be used as the only defense, make sure you have other traps at the ready in case of large [[siege]]s

NOTE: This is a very expensive creation and should only be used late in the game when you can spare lots of stone/wood/mechanisms. the bigger the bridge the more effective the trap

Retract [[bridge]] 2 to force invaders to take the long way, first running along the wall (to the west in this diagram) and then zig-zagging back for maximum exposure to your ranged units on the walls above them. The pits at the base of the walls are necessary to target down one z-level at enemy units.

''(Note - [[Trader]]s will NOT stop at your fortress unless there is a clear, 3-wide path to a [[Trade Depot]] when they arrive. Bridge 2 should be kept down if you want/expect Traders.)''

Bridges 1 and 3 can be put down to allow enemies into this pit entrance, then retracted again to trap them in the kill zone. Note - Attackers must have a complete "path" to where they want to go, so bridge 3 must be down to lure them in.

[[Category:Guides]]
[[Category:Fortress defense| ]]
[[Category:World]]
[[Category:Design]]

40d:Defense design

2009-06-04T20:33:40Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Bait animal */ spamming archers with cats

This page is one of several inter-related articles on the broader topic of defending your fortress and your dwarves. This page will focus on the physical layout and architecture of a fortress - specific suggestions, examples, diagrams and discussions of combining walls, fortifications, tunnels, channels, bridges, and terrain into a defensible whole.

See the [[Defense guide|Defense Guide]] for a general overview of threats and considerations for fortress defense.

For suggestions on training, organizing and deploying soldiers and militia, see [[Military design]].

Many defenses rely on complex traps as a central part, that are, essentially, the defense themselves. For complex traps that are '''not''' a minor/optional part of a larger defensive plan, (but might be adapted or plugged into one) see [[Trap design|Trap Design]].

----

:'''''Editors & Contributors''' - Please see top of [[Talk:Defense design|discussion page]] before posting.''

=General designs=
General designs should include suggestions that can be "plugged in" to a part of any typical fortress, and/or can be modified to suit a number of purposes.

Any fortress defenses need to be able to protect your dwarves while outside, whether that's military or civilians. On the truly labor intensive end, you can fully enclose areas of wilderness you wish to utilize in walls or behind moats with the only access being from within your base. Hostile creatures, even 'invisible' ones like ambushers, start at map edges and travel across the map - they will only spawn in regions where they can path to a dwarf. By controlling which areas have access to paths to dwarves, you can force all hostile forces to appear in predictable and limited killing zones and battlefields that you control.

==AI abuse==
Taking advantage of the game's Artificial Intelligence and [[path]]finding is a whole article in itself. Try leaving a door un-forbidden during an attack. When the bad guys approach the door, forbid it, and the enemy will wander off. Unlock it again, and they turn around and head back towards the door again. You can get enemies to march back and forth over a set of traps this way, or lure them deep into a complex trap. This could be automated via [[pressure plate]]s. This might count as an [[exploit]], or not - that's up to you, and what you consider fun and challenging.

==Bait animal==
[[Restrain]]ing a sacrificial animal just outside your walls, but within range of your marksdwarves and/or siege engines, can lure an enemy into attacking that while you cut them down. Make sure to place some pillars or statues (see below) so enemy archers cannot simply shoot the creature from a safe distance.

Releasing a [[cage]] full of surplus animals will keep the enemy archers very busy. They may even be out of ammo when your wrestlers show up.

For [[building destroyers]], spare statues can serve the same purpose.

==Airlock defenses/buffer zone==
Build two walls, each with a drawbridge. Build the trade depot in the buffer zone between them. Keep the outer bridge open, and the inner one closed. When the merchants appear, put crossbows on the walls to guard their approach. Once all the merchants are safely inside, close the outer bridge. Once there's no enemies left in the buffer zone, open the inner bridge so your civilians can start loading up the depot.

The airlock pattern can be useful even without putting the depot there. Let a few siegers in at a time, and crush them. Reset the traps, Rest up the soldiers, and repeat.

==Control Room==
Have one (large?) room (or several stacked on top of each other) for all defense-related levers, and central to idle dwarves - near your [[meeting area]]s and [[noble]]s quarters, with one or more halls or stairs leading to it for quick access. Connect a lever to all those doors and hatches as the first lever to be pulled in an emergency, and the respondent will lock themselves in for you, guaranteeing that they will then have nothing else to do but stay there and pull levers.

It may also be an idea to have a second lever to at least one door, for emergency access. And possibly to add a stockpile of booze and food or a well for longer sieges.

==Pathing slowdowns==
If you're playing on a low-powered machine and you close up all entrances to your fortress during a siege, your game may grind to a halt and/or crash as the siegers continuously fail at pathfinding into your fortress. Bait animals may alleviate this.

==Meeting hall as defense==
TACTIC
You can use a meeting hall [[zone]] to attract animals to a given area. This makes a pretty poor defense in general, but in the very early game, it's a way to defend your wagon and stockpiles from thieving animals. Remove the zone later, or it attracts idle dwarves and children.

==Guard towers (aka pillboxes)==
Build a [[tower]] specifically to post archers on, possibly away from your main defenses. This lets you open fire before the enemy approaches your gates. A pillbox can be attached to your walls, or separate, so that the only access is from tunnels below. Thse tunnels can stretch across the map, and only need be 1-tile big if no regular traffic is expected. Construct [[fortification]]s on the second or third floor, so your dwarves can fire out. For extra usefulness, build a [[barracks]], [[archery target]], [[food]] [[stockpile]], [[well]] and [[dining room]] in or near the tower. Add a door or hatch to lock them in.

===Siege engine turrets===
If it's big enough, build a [[siege engine]] inside a pillbox. The device needs to on the same lever as the target it will fire at, but this could be across a large gap to a nearby plateau. Only a single tile of fortifications is needed to fire through the wall. Position the tower to fire where invaders tend to congregate. Since [[siege operator]]s are civilians, the "dwarves stay underground" order must be off unless this is built as an open room under a ceiling.

You will want to guarantee that enemies do not approach the position and scare the civilian operators - dig a moat, have some intervening valley or build some secondary fortifications to keep enemies at a distance. Unlike walls, fortifications on the same z-level do not block siege engine missiles, at any range. Unfortunately, if an enemy can walk up to them, fortifications will protect enemies from your archery fire (but not siege engine fire.)

==Roach motel==
Build a long, narrow, and twisty passage, accessible from the outside, but unconnected to your fortress. Build as many simple traps as you like. Place a bait animal inside. Enemy attackers walk right in, and get torn apart by the traps. If any manage to make it to the end, and kill the useless animal, they're surrounded by traps, and no closer to your fortress.

If the roach motel is deep enough underground, you can build a tunnel above it, channel down, and mark the channel a [[Activity_zone#Pit.2FPond|pit]]/pond. That way, you can "reload" a new bait animal.

=Entrance designs=

===Siege Engines===
One effective way to have [[Siege engine]]s (help) defend your fortress is:

*<tt>+</tt> - floor
*<tt>═</tt> - wall
*<tt>▼</tt> - ramp
*<tt>\</tt> - channel
*<tt>╬</tt> - fortification

<br />'''One ballista vs 3-wide hallway'''
<pre>|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|╦|═|═|═|═|═
|E|n|t|r|a|n|c|e|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|▼|\|\|\|\|\|║|▐|▀|▀|
|E|n|t|r|a|n|c|e|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|▼|\|\|\|\|\|╬|◄|═|«
|E|n|t|r|a|n|c|e|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|▼|\|\|\|\|\|║|▐|▄|▄|
|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|╩|═|═|═|═|═</pre>

Using this design you can cripple an army using a well timed volley. The hallway can be much longer than shown if you wish, as ballistae have extended ranges well over 100 tiles. The channeled area is necessary, as civilians (siege operators are "civilians") will run when enemies get within about 5-10 tiles of them, regardless of the actual path to that threat.

====Ballista battery====
3 (or more!) ballistae can be put into a "battery" if overlapped - one per tile-width of the hallway, with each ballista aiming down their row of tiles.
<pre> |╦|═|═|═|
|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|╦|═|═|╦|═|═|║|▐|▀|▀|
|E|n|t|r|a|n|c|e|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|▼|\|\|\|\|\|║| ║|▐|▀|▀|◄|═|« (~ammo~)
|E|n|t|r|a|n|c|e|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|▼|\|\|\|\|\|╬|▐|▀|▀|◄|═|«|▐|▄|▄|
|E|n|t|r|a|n|c|e|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|▼|\|\|\|\|\|║|◄|═|«|▐|▄|▄| (~ammo~)
|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|╩|▐|▄|▄| (~ammo~)
|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|</pre>
Be sure to use fortifications to prevent dwarfs from wandering in front of the ballista to their deaths. If desired (and you have the <s>man</s>dwarfpower to spare), catapults may be put behind those, as they shoot safely ''over'' workers in front of them. Altho' less effective than ballistae, it's a little more firepower - and that can't be a bad thing.

For added flavour, channel out one or more tiles down the length of the 3-wide hallway and install retractable bridges. When invaders attack, retract the bridges, forcing them into paths that are only 1-tile wide.

Adding additional channels on either side of the hall will allow stray ammo to be recovered at a later time. Make sure to add locked doors, to prevent siege operators from walking down below enemy archers during a battle.

===Flooded entrance===
Using a chamber as your entrance alongside a chamber full of water and some machinery you can flood or drain the entrance at will.

The basic premise requires two levers, two [[screw pump]]s and two [[Gear assembly|gear assemblies]]. The amount of power required and the number of additional components needed to get the power to the screw pumps varies depending on distance/setup. One pump is placed to draw from chamber 1 and dump into chamber 2. The other is set in reverse. A gear assembly is placed next to each pump and connected to the main power system. Each gear is linked to a lever. Now at the flip of a switch you can submerge your entrance with [[water]] or [[magma]] for easy, secure defense against creatures that aren't amphibious or magma-dwelling, depending.

[[Image:Entflood.jpg]]

The picture above shows the design in action. The green pump is currently on while the red has been disconnected through the grey marked axle. The yellow X is just to mark that there is a channel under the axle.

=== The "Reverse Battlement" design ===

<pre> |'|'|'|'|'|║|+|+|+|║|'|'|'|'|'
F |═|═|═|═|═|║|+|+|+|║|═|═|═|═|═
O |.|.|.|.|.|╬|@|+|+|║|.|g|.|g|.
R |.|.|.|g|.|╬|@|+|+|║|.|.|.|.|g
T |.|.|.|.|.|╬|@|+|+|║|.|.|g|.|. <- Direction <-
R |.|.|.|.|g|╬|@|+|+|║|g|.|.|g|g <- of attack <-
E |.|.|.|.|.|╬|@|+|+|║|.|g|.|.|.
S |═|═|═|═|═|║|+|+|+|║|═|═|═|═|═
S |'|'|'|'|'|║|+|+|+|║|'|'|'|'|'</pre>

:* <tt>.</tt> = ground level
:* + = bridge/overpass
:* ╬ = fortification
:* <tt>═</tt> = wall, channel or other obstacle (to force path of attackers)
:* <tt>@</tt> = marksdwarf
:* <tt>g</tt> = goblin attackers

Note that in this diagram, the fortress interior is to the West, and the enemy forces come from the East. The marksdwarves on the bridge with the [[fortification]]s are one level above the [[goblin]]s (or other attackers), who will pass under the bridge and charge on toward the west. As the first clear from under the bridge, they are targeted from behind (which is one level above), as the marksdwarves wait in ambush. This allows the marksdwarves to face far fewer enemies at any one time, at least to begin with, and any enemy archers must clear the bridge, take their lumps, and then return fire back the other way before the marksdwarves are ever under attack.

For extra safety, hollow this tunnel out from under a ledge of the mountain (so it counts as "surface" and Dwarfs can "stay inside"). The bridge part can then be made out of construction, as soldiers can be ordered to go outside anyway.

If you're feeling especially nasty, make the tunnel really long into the mountain and add a ballista battery (see above). In my current version of the fortress, the goblins have to cross a long series of drawbridges to even get inside the mountain, so the ballista dwarf gets a lot of shots, and I can launch any escaping troops into the air.

''(Adding ammo stockpiles, of your best quality bolts, to these stations will speed up reloading for longer sieges/battles. Even adding small, convenient food and alcohol stockpiles is not unheard of. Some designers place access to/from archery ranges very close to these stations, for faster deployment.)''

==Scenic route==

[[Image:defense_3bridges.png|thumb|right]]
An example of some advanced defensive construction tactics to deal with vile forces of "any" size. (See picture).

*'''Bridge 1''' seals off the entire base
*'''Bridge 2''' forces everyone to take the long, winding, heavily trapped/defended path of death.
*'''Bridge 3''' seals the inside of the fortress

Clever triggering of the bridges allows you to break the hostile forces into smaller chunks to be trapped in the courtyard while being caught in traps and a crossfire of arrows from the fortifications around.

===Goblin detour===

This particular design works well with plenty of archers, siege engines, and other ranged weaponry.
*<tt>═</tt> - Wall
*<tt>╬</tt> - [[fortification]]
*<tt>+</tt> - Floor, the path the attackers must take
*A space - pit (filled with [[Trap#Upright Spear/Spike|spikes]], [[water]], [[magma]], whatever you prefer)
*<tt>@</tt> - [[Marksman|Marksdwarves]]
*<tt>1, 2, 3</tt> - Bridges (3 shown) over pits
<pre>
|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|E|N|T|R|A|N|C|E|+
|═|═|╦|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|1|1|1|═|╦|═|═
|+|@|╬| |+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+| |╬|@|+
|+|@|╬| |+| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |2|2|2| |╬|@|+
|+|@|╬| |+| | |+| | | |+| | | |+| | | |+|+|+|+| |╬|@|+
|+|@|╬| |+| |+| |+| |+| |+| |+| |+| |+| |+|+|+| |╬|@|+
|+|@|╬| |+| |+| |+| |+| |+| |+| |+| |+| |+|+|+| |╬|@|+
|+|@|╬| |+| |+| |+| |+| |+| |+| |+| |+| |+|+|+| |╬|@|+
|+|@|╬| | |+| | | |+| | | |+| | | |+| | |+|+|+| |╬|@|+
|+|@|╬| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |+|+|+| |╬|@|+
|+|+|╚|╬|╬|╬|╬|╬|╬|╬|╬|╬|╬|╬|╬|╬|╬|╬|╗| |+|+|+| |╬|@|+
|+|+|+|@|@|@|@|@|@|@|@|@|@|@|@|@|@|@|╬| |+|+|+| |╬|@|+
|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|@|╬| |+|+|+| |╬|@|+
|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|@|╬| |+|+|+| |╬|@|+
|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|═|╗|+|+|@|╬| |+|+|+| |╬|@|+
|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|║|+|+|@|╬| |+|+|+| |╬|@|+
|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|║|+|+|@|╬| |+|+|+| |╬|@|+
|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|█|║|+|+|@|╬| |3|3|3| |╬|@|+</pre>

The 3 tile wide lane is for traders, so if your [[trade depot]] is located before this set-up,
cut it down to a 1 tile lane to slow down invaders more.

[[Category:Guides]]
[[Category:Fortress defense| ]]
[[Category:World]]
[[Category:Design]]

40d:Help! My civilians keep running into combat!

2009-06-04T20:28:24Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* "All dwarves stay inside" */ entrance design note

After the bodies start falling, and sometimes even before, citizens will run like madmen right into the middle of a [[combat]] situation. We'd like to think of it as natural selection, but all dwarves are potentially that stupid.

==Causes==
===Corpse looting===
The most common cause is the death of a friend or enemy. A dying creature who carries objects drops those objects on death, and your dwarves just can't wait to start looting the corpses. Even the presence of hostiles will only deter them if they get close enough to be spooked, and then there's often no telling which direction they'll run - it's usually the wrong one. This behavior only occurs after someone dies. To prevent this behavior, as soon as bodies are generated immediately forbid ({{K|d}} - {{K|b}} - {{K|f}}) all objects they were carrying and their corpse - including all parts thereof. Dwarves will cancel jobs to retrieve forbidden items.

As of v0.28.181.40a, an option is available to automatically forbid objects and corpses killed on the map. You can access the options via the following key combo: {{K|o}} - {{K|F}}

===Outside tasks===
The second behavior which leads to civilian dwarves in avoidable combat situations is dwarves who try to take jobs which take them outside. This is really a more general version of the previous (as they are trying to job 'take item to depot' for dropped items), but can be generated by any object or stockpile that's sitting outside. This is much harder to deal with unless you've kept your stockpiles inside and kept track of every object outside, because finding them to forbid them can be difficult, especially on larger maps or maps with many outdoor z-levels. Finally, not all outdoor jobs are going to be item collecting jobs. Woodcutters will want to chop designated trees (deselect them to stop this or turn off the labor), fisherdwarfs are going to want to go fishing (turn off the fishing labor), trappers will want to trap and hunters will want to hunt (turn off these labors). You'll want to turn off gathering refuse from outside as well using the [[standing orders]] menu: ({{K|o}} - {{K|r}} - {{K|o}}).

===Rescue missions===
One last behavior which can (rarely) bring a civilian into combat is an attempt to rescue a wounded dwarf. Unfortunately you can't 'forbid' a living dwarf, but you can disable the "Health Care" job for the dwarf attempting the rescue. You may need to draft then undraft him to reset his health care job.

==Solutions==
==="All dwarves stay inside"===
You can order all your dwarves, or just non-soldier dwarves, to stay inside by using the standing orders menu: {{k|o}} - {{k|i}}. However this is often an ineffective solution because the prohibition only kicks in when a dwarf actually steps outside. Thus, if combat (or other enemy deterrence systems) are at or near your entrance, telling dwarves to stay inside will not help - they will still try to take these jobs, walk outside (right into a combat situation), and then realize they aren't supposed to be there, cancel the job, walk back inside, and try to take the same job again.

Setting only soldiers to go outside is not a cure-all, since soldiers can still generate Pickup Equipment jobs and run one by one into a hail of goblin crossbow fire. Idle soldiers will still head for outside statue gardens or spar at outside barracks unless you un-designate those rooms.

Also, dwarves will go outside even under this order if there is something inside they want that can only be reached by a path that takes them outside, for instance running across a wall providing a beautiful target to aforementioned goblin crossbows.

Entrance design helps. If the only way to your entrance is through a protected "outside" area (using open ceilings (skylights) and/or a brief walk across a patch of surface surrounded by aboveground walls) your dwarves will remember the "stay inside" order when they reach the outside area. Keep this protected area a bowshot or sharp bend away, behind the actual entrance (or trapped hallway), and you should be good throughout [[Goblin christmas]].

===Remove distractions===
As described above, as soon as a siege or ambush occurs, turn off the labors of dwarves who have outdoor tasks (woodcutting, fishing, trapping and hunting), un-designate ({{k|d}} - {{k|x}}) trees or shrubs that were set to be cut or gathered, and forbid ({{k|d}}} - {{{k|f}}) anything outdoors that your dwarves might want to fetch (such as freshly-cut logs). Continue doing this as the combat progresses and bodies and items start dropping. Turning off refuse hauling, as described above ({{K|o}} - {{K|r}} - {{K|o}}), may help. So can telling dwarves not to collect bodies: {{k|o}} - {{k|g}} if you use stockpiles for dead dwarves (which [[coffin|you shouldn't]]).

===Batten down the hatches===
An easier solution to manage is locking all your dwarves inside, for instance by raising drawbridges. This tends to break invader AIs however, as they will just mill about outside (not walking forward into your traps) because they can't find a path to a dwarf. It also makes it more difficult to get military out to the invaders because when you open the doors your dwarves will start taking outdoor jobs again.

===Martial law===
One last solution is to draft all your civilian dwarves and station them somewhere deep within your fortress. It will generate a lot of unhappy thoughts, and kill your productivity for the duration of the siege, but it will stop them from being stupid. Watch out for newly-recruited dwarves who are set to equip armour or weapons, however: they may attempt to run out into the fray to equip themselves if 'Soldiers can go outside' is selected.

===Forward barracks===
Create your barracks, a food stockpile, weapons and armour stockpiles, small meeting hall, etc. near the entrance of your fort for your military dwarves to use. Have the rest of your fort separated by lockable doors. When fighting occurs, lock all non-military dwarves in the back of the fort where they can continue working undisturbed. Forcing all incoming traffic to move through your barracks has the added benefit of making it likely that any sneaky [[thief]] will be discovered in the middle of your sparring ground -- with predictably gruesome results for the thief.

The forward barracks concept can be extended by placing the barracks so far forward that they are on the surface, outside the fortress proper, forming a castle of sorts. This requires encircling walls or channels on the surface to force enemies into a designated approach path and block others, so there is more work required of the player. One benefit is that the "soldiers can go outside" order will keep civilians out of the castle, and thus hopefully out of harm's way; also this will consume large amounts of those stones that clutter up the fortress.

==Conclusion==
The existence of this problem is a strong argument for doing as much as you can to give your dwarves little reason to go outside. The fewer reasons your dwarves have for going outside, the fewer dwarves you will lose to crazy dwarves wandering into the line of fire. It has the side benefit of greatly reducing your casualties from ambushes. Strategies like building a [[trade depot]] indoors, behind a retractable drawbridge, will help keep your dwarves out of danger.

Providing indoor pastimes (like a [[sculpture garden]], [[zoo]], [[meeting hall]], or a meeting area [[zone]]) will make dwarves spend their break time in the fortress rather than outside. This will prevent dwarves from hanging around outside, which will lessen the likelihood that they will get caught outside when siegers arrive. Creative use of water resources to create an [[underground forest]] can limit danger to woodcutters. Hunters, haulers and other dwarves who have business outside will still be at risk.

{{Military FAQ}}

40d:Help! My civilians keep running into combat!

2009-06-04T20:17:43Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* "All dwarves stay inside" */ idle soldiers are the goblin's plaything

After the bodies start falling, and sometimes even before, citizens will run like madmen right into the middle of a [[combat]] situation. We'd like to think of it as natural selection, but all dwarves are potentially that stupid.

==Causes==
===Corpse looting===
The most common cause is the death of a friend or enemy. A dying creature who carries objects drops those objects on death, and your dwarves just can't wait to start looting the corpses. Even the presence of hostiles will only deter them if they get close enough to be spooked, and then there's often no telling which direction they'll run - it's usually the wrong one. This behavior only occurs after someone dies. To prevent this behavior, as soon as bodies are generated immediately forbid ({{K|d}} - {{K|b}} - {{K|f}}) all objects they were carrying and their corpse - including all parts thereof. Dwarves will cancel jobs to retrieve forbidden items.

As of v0.28.181.40a, an option is available to automatically forbid objects and corpses killed on the map. You can access the options via the following key combo: {{K|o}} - {{K|F}}

===Outside tasks===
The second behavior which leads to civilian dwarves in avoidable combat situations is dwarves who try to take jobs which take them outside. This is really a more general version of the previous (as they are trying to job 'take item to depot' for dropped items), but can be generated by any object or stockpile that's sitting outside. This is much harder to deal with unless you've kept your stockpiles inside and kept track of every object outside, because finding them to forbid them can be difficult, especially on larger maps or maps with many outdoor z-levels. Finally, not all outdoor jobs are going to be item collecting jobs. Woodcutters will want to chop designated trees (deselect them to stop this or turn off the labor), fisherdwarfs are going to want to go fishing (turn off the fishing labor), trappers will want to trap and hunters will want to hunt (turn off these labors). You'll want to turn off gathering refuse from outside as well using the [[standing orders]] menu: ({{K|o}} - {{K|r}} - {{K|o}}).

===Rescue missions===
One last behavior which can (rarely) bring a civilian into combat is an attempt to rescue a wounded dwarf. Unfortunately you can't 'forbid' a living dwarf, but you can disable the "Health Care" job for the dwarf attempting the rescue. You may need to draft then undraft him to reset his health care job.

==Solutions==
==="All dwarves stay inside"===
You can order all your dwarves, or just non-soldier dwarves, to stay inside by using the standing orders menu: {{k|o}} - {{k|i}}. However this is often an ineffective solution because the prohibition only kicks in when a dwarf actually steps outside. Thus, if combat (or other enemy deterrence systems) are at or near your entrance, telling dwarves to stay inside will not help - they will still try to take these jobs, walk outside (right into a combat situation), and then realize they aren't supposed to be there, cancel the job, walk back inside, and try to take the same job again.

Setting only soldiers to go outside is not a cure-all, since soldiers can still generate Pickup Equipment jobs and run one by one into a hail of goblin crossbow fire. Idle soldiers will still head for outside statue gardens or spar at outside barracks unless you un-designate those rooms.

Also, dwarves will go outside even under this order if there is something inside they want that can only be reached by a path that takes them outside, for instance running across a wall providing a beautiful target to aforementioned goblin crossbows.

===Remove distractions===
As described above, as soon as a siege or ambush occurs, turn off the labors of dwarves who have outdoor tasks (woodcutting, fishing, trapping and hunting), un-designate ({{k|d}} - {{k|x}}) trees or shrubs that were set to be cut or gathered, and forbid ({{k|d}}} - {{{k|f}}) anything outdoors that your dwarves might want to fetch (such as freshly-cut logs). Continue doing this as the combat progresses and bodies and items start dropping. Turning off refuse hauling, as described above ({{K|o}} - {{K|r}} - {{K|o}}), may help. So can telling dwarves not to collect bodies: {{k|o}} - {{k|g}} if you use stockpiles for dead dwarves (which [[coffin|you shouldn't]]).

===Batten down the hatches===
An easier solution to manage is locking all your dwarves inside, for instance by raising drawbridges. This tends to break invader AIs however, as they will just mill about outside (not walking forward into your traps) because they can't find a path to a dwarf. It also makes it more difficult to get military out to the invaders because when you open the doors your dwarves will start taking outdoor jobs again.

===Martial law===
One last solution is to draft all your civilian dwarves and station them somewhere deep within your fortress. It will generate a lot of unhappy thoughts, and kill your productivity for the duration of the siege, but it will stop them from being stupid. Watch out for newly-recruited dwarves who are set to equip armour or weapons, however: they may attempt to run out into the fray to equip themselves if 'Soldiers can go outside' is selected.

===Forward barracks===
Create your barracks, a food stockpile, weapons and armour stockpiles, small meeting hall, etc. near the entrance of your fort for your military dwarves to use. Have the rest of your fort separated by lockable doors. When fighting occurs, lock all non-military dwarves in the back of the fort where they can continue working undisturbed. Forcing all incoming traffic to move through your barracks has the added benefit of making it likely that any sneaky [[thief]] will be discovered in the middle of your sparring ground -- with predictably gruesome results for the thief.

The forward barracks concept can be extended by placing the barracks so far forward that they are on the surface, outside the fortress proper, forming a castle of sorts. This requires encircling walls or channels on the surface to force enemies into a designated approach path and block others, so there is more work required of the player. One benefit is that the "soldiers can go outside" order will keep civilians out of the castle, and thus hopefully out of harm's way; also this will consume large amounts of those stones that clutter up the fortress.

==Conclusion==
The existence of this problem is a strong argument for doing as much as you can to give your dwarves little reason to go outside. The fewer reasons your dwarves have for going outside, the fewer dwarves you will lose to crazy dwarves wandering into the line of fire. It has the side benefit of greatly reducing your casualties from ambushes. Strategies like building a [[trade depot]] indoors, behind a retractable drawbridge, will help keep your dwarves out of danger.

Providing indoor pastimes (like a [[sculpture garden]], [[zoo]], [[meeting hall]], or a meeting area [[zone]]) will make dwarves spend their break time in the fortress rather than outside. This will prevent dwarves from hanging around outside, which will lessen the likelihood that they will get caught outside when siegers arrive. Creative use of water resources to create an [[underground forest]] can limit danger to woodcutters. Hunters, haulers and other dwarves who have business outside will still be at risk.

{{Military FAQ}}

40d Talk:Adamantine

2009-06-04T13:47:53Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Adamantine Strand Stockpiling */ and dyed blue

Has anyone found any yet?

:I've heard so, yes. I forget which talk page it was on.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 22:52, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

::It isn't anywhere on the wiki, if a search for "adamantine" would show it. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:54, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
::Cancel that. You can't find it by searching for "adamantine" but "addy" gave me [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000793&p=3 this forum thread]. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:56, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== Where to find it ==

http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001176

In the above thread, Toady mentions the pits (and therefore adamantium) are located on every map tile which is displayed as a mountain. He then notes that it might only place them on mountain squares in the local map as well, but that he wasn't sure. So, that detail needs verification. Also, from testing out about a dozen volcano tiles (using reveal.exe) I found adamantine and the pits on every one. So, I've assumed that volcano tiles count as mountains for pit placement. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 22:58, 5 November 2007 (EST)

This seems to be generally true, but not absolutely true. I found a volcano in a desert on a completely flat map, and there was no adamant. Perhaps there is a depth requirement. --[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]]

:Was this on an actual volcano tile, or just an adjacent tile with a magma vent? --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 02:11, 19 November 2007 (EST)

::It was on an actual volcano tile. I probably can find it this evening if you'd like me to snag the seed so you can see for yourself. --[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]] 15:36, 19 November 2007 (EST)

== Old info ==

I also ported over parts of the old adamantine info which seemed to still be correct for this version, and trimmed out the bits which no longer seemed to be true. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 22:58, 5 November 2007 (EST)
:There now only seems to be one labor directly related to adamantine, and that is Strand Extraction. Presumably weaving, smelting to wafers, and forging with the wafers now use the relevant "normal" skills but perhaps with a penalty to speed. I have not yet found adamantine, so if anybody has succeeded in analyzing its use, please correct the information in the wiki! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 00:56, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Okay, since I've been playing around with adamatine in 33a and 33b for a little while now, I've edited the page a fair bit. In particular, I've eliminated the Old Info section, wrapping that into the main body where it's correct, and eliminating it where it's not. I further added notes about treating the ore as a stone, since the value is a little different (I've got an Adamantine Ashery due to the ore not being an economic stone in 33a). I mentioned the apparent relationship between discovering adamantine and the King arriving. I removed the "ver" tag and replaced it with normal text, since it was forcing the page into the "outdated info" category, and I think we're now accurate to 33b. The only thing we still need to check is whether magma version of shops are still needed to handle the processing. (A magma clothier's shop... hmmm). [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:02, 19 November 2007 (EST)
::Since apparently someone has verified that magma smelters are not needed to make wafers, can we take this to be a concession from Toady due to magma not being available in all mountain tiles that adamantine is? --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:38, 19 December 2007 (EST)

== Demon pit image ==

I believe that's just a magma vent, which may or may not contain adamantine, though there's bound to be some somewhere in a mountain range. --[[User:Maximus|Maximus]], 20 November 2007

:I moved the above comment from the edit summary[http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Adamantine&diff=10287&oldid=10117]. It is an example of where adamantine can be found, and where one person found it. I think it's useful on this article, so I'll put it back with a caption explaining it's an example. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:23, 21 November 2007 (EST)

::Well, I'm not going to nix your edit, I'll leave that decision up to you or others. But I have to say I don't really see that image as being remotely useful without a lot more context than 'this is an example'. What exactly is it an example of? What information is actually being provided? I can't really see how the image generates anything except confusion because it happens to be a magma square. --[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]] 17:09, 21 November 2007 (EST)

::The image doesnt seem helpful as is. Perhaps with a world seed and a little more explanation [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:34, 21 November 2007 (EST)

::Unless a demon pit can always be found to the east of a magma tile, the image is misleading. The text in the Location section is more accurate, though it needs some more verifying and fleshing out.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:46, 21 November 2007 (EST)

:::All good points. I removed the image again. Maybe we can get a more helpful image at some point. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:30, 23 November 2007 (EST)

== Standardized spelling ==

I just want to point out, despite it being definitively spelled [[Adamantine]] consistently in Dwarf Fortress, people still will spell it "adamantium" or "adamantite," presumably due to previous experience with Marvel Comics or World of Warcraft, respectively. (At least those are the places where ''I've'' seen those alternative spellings.) --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 14:15, 23 November 2007 (EST)

== Strands and loom ==
Are adamantine strands automatically processed at loom, if 'auto weave thread into cloth' option is on? I think, it's important to know. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:29, 16 January 2008 (EST)
:They are not. There is anew Loom job, "a: Weave Metal Cloth" --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 00:11, 17 January 2008 (EST)

==Verification==
Verify tag was questioning whether Adamantine appears more often on mountain tilesets than on others. Definately, in a ratio of 100:1 or more. Confirmed using the regional prospector.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 01:23, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

== Adamantine bolts ==

In the article, it says that everything made out of adamantine uses 3 wafers in the place of one bar. This is usually correct, but in the case of making bolts, I'm pretty sure you just need one wafer to make a stack of 25 bolts. It might work for coins and other stacked things as well, I'm not sure. Can someone confirm this? --[[User:Obsidian|Obsidian]] 15:37, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

== merge? ==
I was wondering, should this be merged with raw adamantine? they both have extremely similar facts, and there are little differences. I don't know how to do this, and I think that some people might object, so any thoughts on this, go here. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:29, 3 October 2008 (EDT)
:Vote: '''No merge.''' The pages are seperate because [[Adamantine]] refers to the processed metal and [[Raw adamantine]] refers to the ore. It's basically the standard. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:09, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

== The ominous timer ==

...'''Too Deep'''. What, exactly, does it mean? I've heard it in some places, but this quote from Boatmurdered got me wondering for a while:
In my knowledge the Too Deep timer starts if you mine somewhere between 10-99 adamantium /.../
(Quote source: Guerilla Medic)

So, this ominous sounding thing, along with the mention (above) of mining adamantine resulting in an 'invariable game over' has gotten me quite curious.

Just what happens? What are the mechanics, how is it triggered, and most importantly--

''How does the game end?'' ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 22:14, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

:This is from the 2D version. (and it's incorrect, the timer is started based on a random roll that gets a higher chance the more Ad you've mined) Maybe we should have a page about the 2D version and all the major ways it's different from the current version. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 22:43, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

::I am aware of that; so is the magma river which I so dearly wish I was there to see. But I don't really want to use the 2D version because of all the bugs and everything.

::A few searches (using Google) said that the timer's purpose was to eventually lead to that final game over. So why's it gone and all? Shouldn't it be an option?

::And if Toady ever reads this, I think a whole lot of features from the 2D version should be brought back, hopefully in a toggleable manner (e.g. magma river--I want to pull a Boatmurdered, and a '''river of magma''' sounds pretty awesome in itself); I feel this would be great for the oldbies as well as midbies, and the newbies would eventually tromp on over and discover a few options that made the game more fun for them.

::Oh, and one last thing: Random, that's a great idea. I'd help, but I've never so much as downloaded the 2D version. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 18:37, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Well, I'll help get it started, by describing the differences I remember. Some important changes came post-3D, too, but I stopped playing DF for most of 2008, so I didn't notice what changed when.

:::*Z-levels (the biggie). Among other things, channels were no impediment unless they were filled with fluid. There was no fluid "pressure"; fluids were infinite, and if a floodgate was destroyed or otherwise unclosable, the resulting flood could easily destroy your entire fort. Being infinite, it also had no "depth" (x/7).
:::*The chasm would contain primarily antmen, ratmen, or batmen, and 5-15 of them would spontaneously crawl out of it on a fairly regular basis until you poured enough magma in there to "kill" the chasm. Frogmen, snakemen, or lizardmen would also show up spontaneously along the banks of the river (and also crawl out of wells), though much less often. The underground river would flood once each spring, summer, and fall (in the form of waves sweeping out up to 20 tiles from its banks), and the floods would tend to sweep dwarves into the river, who would almost always drown. Items swept into the river would permanently disappear.
:::*Terrain layout -- previously there was just an "outside", with a river zig-zagging north to south (except in scorching/freezing climates), a nearly flat cliff face, and cave river, chasm, magma river and demon pits at fairly regular distances eastward from the cliff face, that were present in every fortress. Behind the pits, forming the eastern edge of the map, was an adamantine-lined impassable chasm (containing no creatures -- at least, none you ever saw). Oh, and the cave river was always lined with limestone and the magma river was always lined with obsidian. Gold, platinum, hematite, and coal could be found in any mountain, though always to the east of the chasm. Gem types were also tied to depth. There were no geographic-style stone layers, and there were only a handful of different types of stone, which were either "light" (limestone, moonstone, or marble), "dark" (obsidian, jet, or onyx), or just "stone". Limestone was the only usable flux, and coal was coal (no lignite or bituminous, and it always produced 2 bars from smelting).
:::*Mining even a little bit of adamantine set into motion an eventual and unavoidable end-of-game ("Too deep"). Mining a lot of adamantine would cause it to happen at the start of the next season.
:::*Starting location choices -- Previously there were only a few dozen fixed locations on each map you could choose, all with the same layout and size; the only thing that varied was biome (climate, creatures, trees, and shrubs), and each location had only one biome. (Accessibility by different civilizations also varied depending on starting location -- this is perhaps little changed in the current version.) Now you can start just about anywhere on the world map, with a variable-size fortress map, which can span several different adjacent biomes and terrains.
:::*Cave-ins would happen pretty much automatically if you mined out a 7x7 area or larger without leaving an unmined natural column in place (or built a pillar).
:::*Choice of starting goods was very limited. You couldn't bring an anvil (one would automatically be brought in the first summer by a metalsmith). Starting points were very tight... something like a quarter of what they are now.
:::*Trader wagon access required an actual 3-wide road (not just a clear path) stretching from the western edge of the map to the depot (which had to be near the cliff face or inside the fort).
:::*You couldn't build traps or farms outdoors. You could build bridges outdoors but not make them raisable/retractable.
:::*You couldn't build/rebuild walls or any of the other [[constructions]].
:::*Activity zones, including dumps, were introduced with the 3D version.
:::*Sand was always available, from the banks of the indoor or outdoor river.
:::*Machines (gears, pumps, windmills, etc.) did not exist. There was a "mill" workshop that had to be built on one of the rivers.
:::*Nobles changed a lot. There used to be "guildmasters" corresponding to different professions (farming, mining, masonry, etc.). The manager was your first noble, who arrived after hitting 20 dwarves. There was no "trader" noble or trade skills; you could trade at any point after the caravan fully unloaded. You couldn't do workshop profiles until the manager arrived and couldn't use the stocks screen until the bookkeeper arrived, which would start the [[dwarven economy]]. The mayor, manager, trade minister, and treasurer were all different, full-time nobles, and the baron/count/duke (and their consorts) were all separate as well. Add to this the guildmasters and "Order of the <weapon>" nobles and you could easily have 30 nobles in your fort.
:::*Dwarves who created artifacts would carry those artifacts non-stop for the next several years.
:::*Mining would leave behind stones or gems 50% of the time, regardless of miner skill. Ore would be left behind 100% of the time by legendary miners, less often for lower skill. All mining byproducts now follow the "ore" formula; up to 100% of the time, dependent on skill.
:::*Encumbrance changed at some point (post-3D?). The Γ unit was made 1/10th its former weight, and much greater variation in material weights was introduced.
:::*Custom stockpiles were introduced before the 3D version -- this was probably the most revolutionary change introduced during the 2D era. Well, no, fire was probably bigger... and so buggy when it was first introduced you were best off turning it off. I believe temperature was introduced at the same time, which was also pretty buggy.
:::That's all I can remember for now.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:07, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

:Based on the boatmurdered screenshots, it appears that discovery of the chasm/cave river depended on line-of-sight (i.e. the whole thing wouldn't appear all at once the moment you breached it) [[User:Random832|Random832]] 01:51, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

::That's correct.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:57, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

:I think artifacts no longer being held on to by dwarves who made them was post-3D, I remember reading an old post in a penny arcade forum on their 3D succession game. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 01:54, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

:It's very sad that I've learned most of what I know about this from Boatmurdered.

:So, wouldn't it be good, then, if things like the magma river (with the obsidian lining working as it does now) were brought back? Also, the floods would be great as a toggleable option (only) in my opinion; heck, have it depend upon where you've settled, too. Like a possible Nile setup, if the conditions are similar. So you'd have a '''predictable''' flood which'd make muddy soil and all, maybe fertilize it (if there's a difference, and if it does any good as of yet). A modified, toggleable cave-in system would be nice, too; I don't like how the tiles just support themselves. (You can build a huge pier leading straight into the ocean, then drop a building into it, or make an aquaduct in the same manner to make lava and water create obsidian to build into or whatever...underwater base, done.) Maybe as a 'new player' option.

:Also, could you explain ''exactly'' what the "'''Too Deep'''" timer did when it finished counting down? Was some kind of animation displayed, and if so, what did it show? Or what did it do to end the game? Etcetera... If it's just one screen, screenshots would be good too. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 03:25, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

::This reminds me; daemons need a ''serious'' difficulty boost. Sure, they'll simply ''destroy'' the random new player who stumbles across them, but then again, so will [[carp]]. So I propose that somebody make the daemons absolute rape machines; the first (all-'round) daemon to spawn should be essentially ten times as strong as the daemons that spawn right afterwards or something to that effect. Spirits of fire could be given dragon-level breath, and all daemons would get super fire resistance.

::Among other things, such as [DAMBLOCK] boosts, more demons, etcetera. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 18:02, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/images/3/3c/Adamantite_game_over.PNG

I remember Toady saying somewhere that he wanted to make cave-ins as much of a challenge as in the 2D versions, but there may be game-slowdown issues. In a recent dev_now he talked about making the chasm civilization more dynamic again (not just a bunch of monsters that are gone once killed).

Balancing the difficulty of the demons is hard, since you either know how to fight them and have a long time to prepare, or you don't, and you'll get massacred. But if you want Toady to hear any of these things, say them on the forums -- he doesn't hang around the wiki.

(Some) players did indeed use the river flooding for Nile-style farming in the 2D version.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:53, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

:Interesting. Basically, though, what I'm trying to aim for is to make daemons like they were when one went Too Deep; but without a game-over screen. So you're probably going to be absolutely ''destroyed'', but you just ''might'' have a chance if you're extremely lucky.

:It'd make things easier if we had more elemental attacks; but that makes it start sounding like Pokemon after a while. But if we had, say, 'holy' weapons, then they could be made to be the only things that would do squat against daemons. Maybe the only holy weapons would be artifacts; in fact, that sounds like a great idea to me, because that means it's a lot harder to 'cheat' the system to get the weapons you'd need early.

:Also, wow, this talk section has gotten simply massive. Never thought such a large discussion would be sparked.... ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 21:59, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

::Those are some interesting ideas, though, again, Toady's the one that needs to hear them.<br>I've copied my 2D vs. 3D list into an actual article, and expanded its purpose: [[History of Dwarf Fortress]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:22, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::: And what happened if, after the "Too deep" game over, you tried to explore the fortress in Adventurer mode ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 04:38, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::::You would find a single adjectiveless "Demon" in it, of slightly larger size than the pit demons. All raw adamantine left in the fort would supposedly turn into silver. I never tried it myself.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:35, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::::: Oh wow. That sure was a nice, intriguing game over. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 18:29, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

==Adamantine Strand Stockpiling==
So, Adamantine strands are apparently placed in cloth stockpiles, as claimed, but there doesn't seem to be any way to turn adamantine *off* for cloth stockpiles, as adamatine strands do not appear in the cloth stockpile item types options (your options under cloth are: thread(silk), thread(plant), cloth(silk), and cloth(plant)). Furthermore, all cloth apparently counts as non-plant/animal, because deselecting allow plant/animal in additional options doesn't prevent non-adamantine cloth/thread from being placed in the stockpile (and regular cloth is removed from stockpiles for which you deselect 'allow non-plant/animal'). Basically, there is no way to tell your cloth stockpiles to only accept adamantine strands, which contradicts elements of this and related pages. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:38, 25 November 2008 (EST)
:As in the article, having a Stockpile set to take from all other cloth stockpiles, but set to accept no "known" types of cloth, works. Incidentally a dyer has just dyed some Adamantine strands blue with Dimple dye. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 13:47, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

==A Little Unclear==
How many adamantium strands are produced from one raw adamantium? [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 12:20, 17 January 2009 (EST)
:One. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:04, 18 January 2009 (EST)

==Adamantine==
Adamantine is used in several mythologies to bind some sort of great evil. This is relevant to our interests.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:42, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Siege engine

2009-06-04T10:37:24Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Stone collection and z-levels */ new section

The fact that siege engines only hit things in their same z-level is probably going to change in a new version (or it may have already, I haven't checked the newest version that came out the 16th). Someone may want to make a note of it.

== catapults don't always destroy ammo when shooting (0.27.169.33b) ==

I have a couple of catapults to train my siege operators. After a while I noticed dwarves going far away from fortress to pick up stone. It turned out that the stones after being fired from catapult just fall on the ground. The ground is mostly sand - may be this is the reason.--[[User:BlackboX|BlackboX]] 22:56, 24 November 2007 (EST)

I've investigated this a bit further in my newest fortress, and apparently any shot that hits the edge of the map, from a ballista or catapult, falls to the ground undamaged and can be recovered. While this is particularly useful for ballistae as it means the three metal bars going into each arrowhead aren't consumed when the bolt is fired, it also means haulers will run out of the fortress all the way to the map edge to recover the used ammo. Catapult shots that hit a wall destroy their ammo as before, I am about to test wether the same is true for ballistae. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 13:15, 28 November 2007 (EST)

: Just tested it, ballista arrows impacting a wall are destroyed like catapult shot. Also, ballista arrows stay within the Z-level on which they were fired as far as I can tell, but catapult shot will drop as it reaches the end of its arc and I have seen it hit targets on lower z-levels. I am not sure if these shots were aimed at the slugmen who got splattered because I was simply firing stone out of my fortress to train siege operators, but they were a couple of z-levels down by the map edge the catapults were firing towards. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 13:21, 28 November 2007 (EST)

: I've seen catapult shots disappear at the edge of the map. I'm not sure what the maximum range is on a catapult. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 18:22, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

== Minimum Shooting Range ==

I had several shots (> 30) fired upon a group of goblins by a legendary siege operator, but all stones flew over them
and hit an area behind them. The distance was 30 tiles (+- 4).

I am on 27.176.38b [[User:Drahflow|Drahflow]] 09:33, 2 March 2008 (EST)

:Quality of parts that the catapult was made of? If it wasn't exceptional or masterful, it should have been expected. --[[User:Tomato|Tomato]] 13:29, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

== Fear Threshold ==

Does anyone know the distance needed to keep civilian dwarves from running away? It would make building fortifications much easier. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 18:22, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

:I've been experimenting a bit with different distances. According to the wiki the distance should be more than '''5''' spaces, and in some cases even '''10''' (for trolls). To begin with I dug a '''7''' spaces wide channel between the operators and the enemy, it was a failure. The operators ran away. I then proceeded to widen the channel to '''13''' spaces, which brought up the distance to '''15''' when you include the front of the ballista and the fortification. It also seemed to be slightly too close, they got off one shot but then ran away. While the enemy was at the minimum range on this distance the operators would at least come back to attempt a reload, but then promptly run again.
:I think a distance of about '''20''' should be good, will continue my experiments and report the results! --[[User:Liqum|Liqum]] 09:03, 26 January 2009 (EST)
:: I'm trying something similar, a ballista and fortification peering into an underground 1-tile-wide U-bend entry tunnel. The 9 squares between the fortification and the nearest staircase are channeled out; the staircase leads to the surface (ie greater minimum distance from ballista operator). I can verify a few lousy ballista shots can be recovered because they fell undamaged into the channel (glancing blow to side wall?). Also reduced the "cancelled due to goblin" messages. But I got at least one "cancelled" message from the ballista operator feeling too close to goblins, so not perfect yet (and no ballista kills - cheap ballista parts!) --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 10:27, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

== ballista's not so deadly. ==

it seems that ballesta's arent an instant kill anymore. they do however stil blow away most of their targets body...

:I can confirm this. I blew off a couple of wooden ballista arrows (no metal tip) into a horde of goblins. Each arrow may have pierced about 2-4 goblins each and then vanished. The goblins died almost instantly however. --[[User:Liqum|Liqum]] 09:06, 26 January 2009 (EST)

== "Omo Elanaidala, Engineer cancels Construct Adamantine Ballista Parts: Needs metal logs." ==

Whaaat.

Okay, presumably I've broken something with my irresponsible modifications and I shouldn't be able to queue jobs making ballista parts out of adamantine from the job manager, particularly since the only options are wood and adamantine as opposed to, say, steel. Just to check, though, has anyone else managed to make siege engine components out of non-wooden materials? <sub>Should probably post things like this on the forum, come to think about it...</sub>--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 13:48, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:Already mentioned, in fact. By yours truly, or rather I took a screenshot of the phenomenon. It seems you can make adamantine '''siege engine''' parts only if you have adamantine logs. This is a bug in the siege engine making system, <s>and may already be in the buglist. Someone should check.</s> Not there. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:54, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::Presumably this is something to do with the fact that in the matgloss_metal file adamantine appears to have tags that make it a valid material for producing almost anything and everything; the job manager thinks it's a valid option and doesn't check if it's physically possible to have logs made of adamantine (which is probably possible with a bit of smelter-haxxing). Adamantine trees, anyone?--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 16:00, 17 December 2008 (EST)

== Can catapults be used effectively from a tower? ==

I haven't had a chance to test this yet, but, could I build a tower safely overlooking my fotress entrance and then effectively hit invaders on a lower Z-level when they approach the entrance? If so, this seems a like a good way to resolve the problem of civilian siege operators fleeing from enemy soldiers...
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 18:39, 27 January 2009 (EST)

:No. Siege weapons fire in a straight horizontal line to the end of their range, and then fall to the ground (unless interrupted by a solid object). Thus raising their elevation means they'll fire over the enemy unless you happen to get really lucky and drop a stone on them at the end of the range, ie, not likely, and certainly not for sustained fire. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 20:32, 27 January 2009 (EST)

::Ok, thanks for clarifying that. The docuentation here indicates strongly what you said it but it's a bit counter-intuitive (especially since there is a *sort* of falling mechanic). I may go ahead and put them on towers anyway though just for practice and stone disposal. :-)--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 18:23, 28 January 2009 (EST)

:::Actually I did that. I put them on towers.. recently during a siege they didn't do anything at all. The siege operators were just picking their noses.<br />
:::It is a great way to train them though and hauling back the rocks from across the map keeps the peasants busy. Just that I noticed one of my catapults, for some strange reason (built on a 3x3 tile platform) has a very short range when shooting over the staircase leading up to it. I can't imagine why this is, just that catapults MAY malfunction and any dwarves below the practice towers might get it. It's not a huge risk but it's worth considering. --[[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 06:07, 7 Feb 2009 (CET)

== Consolidation/Duplication - Siege Engine & Fortress Defense page ==

Much of the same info is on both pages, this one and [[Fortress defense]]. The FD page had ~much~ better graphics, so I copied that under "siege battery" sub-section on this page. What is policy re what goes where? Does "strategy & tactics" belong here, or there?

<br />Does anyone know the max and effective ranges for ballistae and catapults? Anyone know ~exactly~ what the "frightened" range is for civilians? Numbers like that should be included, but they seem to be in some debate, and possibly have changed over versions (or with diff enemies, trolls vs wamblers, etc?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:19, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

== Stone collection and z-levels ==

I'm using a catapult to destroy excess stone, for the sake of tidier floors. I have one set on repeat in my queen's bedroom. ("She slept uneasily due to noise recently.") But here's the interesting bit: the nearby stone is gathered and fired, as you would expect, but also the stone on nearby z-levels is considered nearby. For instance, stones 2 z-levels up are considered closer, and fired first, than stones lying 4 tiles away, even when it's a long walk out to the staircase and up to that z-level. And no, stone wasn't restricted or forbidden. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 10:37, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Siege engine

2009-06-04T10:27:58Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Fear Threshold */

40d Talk:Lever

2009-06-04T10:16:44Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* See what's connected to a lever? */ That's half the fun

== floodgates vs. doors misinformation? ==
"''Therefore, it is more logical to use doors, at least until doors aren't usable for holding back water.''"

I'm fairly certain that doors can't be closed while flooded. They work as described for opening via lever, but cannot close when blocked by water or creatures.
Granted, the last time i've levered doors was back in 2d. Please verify or change the wording? --[[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 15:49, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

:In the current version{{version|0.27.176.38c}} doors can close if water currently occupies the same square. I believe elsewhere the wiki states this destroys the water, but I have not verified if the water is destroyed. --[[User:Quartic|quartic]] 16:18, 2 June 2008 (EDT)
::Does it matter how much water? -- [[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 13:35, 3 June 2008 (EDT)
:::I have verified this with water of depth 1 and 7, but not values in between.--[[User:Quartic|quartic]] 13:38, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

Todo: Check whether two levers connected to the same door operate it in the same way the older versions did - that is, pulling each lever once would open the door, then do nothing as the second lever is pulled. -- [[User:Zaratustra|Zaratustra]] 19:23, 7 November 2007 (EST)

I'm using vertical bars as portcullis for my keep, and they attach to levers. Perhaps a comment that bars and grates operate identically in this version, specifically with respect to levers? -Gotthard

Doesn't the delay come from the floodgate grinding to close the water/magma channel/tunnel compared to a door slamming shut right away? --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 08:51, 31 October 2008 (EDT)
:That is what it is meant to simulate. Like people mentioned above, though, Toady's said that doors shouldn't work as well as floodgates, so in some later version your doors will probably leak. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:09, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

== controlling at a distance ==

Does the lever need to be adjacent to the item it is controlling?

I want to put a floodgate at the end of a channel... [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:52, 23 January 2008 (EST)
:No, it can be anywhere.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 02:57, 23 January 2008 (EST)

so, analog to the support-cave-in-trap how about building a nice water basin, say 4x4 for a start and covering it with grates, all connected to a lever - do grates have to be attached to a wall or floor on one side? I will try *broad grin* --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:45, 22 February 2008 (EST)

:Grates must be attached to a wall on one side, although you can put grates next to only grates and the dwarves will build them. Followed by their collapse. Like walls off bridges.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 18:31, 2 March 2008 (EST)

:Try building supports under them. SL's hand of armok uses supports under hatches in a similar way. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:37, 2 March 2008 (EST)

::Yeah, its not working like i wanted it too. The support thing will probably work. Or I will just leave a few walls in the basin..will try that later, busy right now. *watches goblin fly away in high arc* --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 19:52, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Regarding remote activation/control: I just spent 10 minutes berating my dwarves for completely ignoring two Pull Lever commands while vile forces of darkness approached, only to find that once I removed the Dwarves Stay Indoors restriction, they happily stepped up to the, uh, lever. The bridges are outside, the levers are on the level below. Has anyone else experienced this? [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 17:49, 22 March 2008 (EST)

:Was the lever and/or any part of the path to the lever marked as "outside"? Use {{k|k}} to check. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:25, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::I checked and one of the levers was indeed marked "outside". In fact, there are several squares on my first underground level that are marked "outside". Is that because they are in the general area of the stairway leading outside? Thank you for the info. --[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 18:42, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

:::When I quit reading all new forum messages and stayed at the wiki, I thought this would stop. [[Outside|Read The Wiki]]. Really. Read it. No, really, click on that link. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 19:57, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

== Megabeasts ==

I have noticed that a bridge that a hydra is standing on cannot be retracted {{version|0.27.176.38c}}. Has anyone else had similar experiences? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:15, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

:Titans cause the same problem. I conjecture that bridged can't be retracted while megabeasts are standing on them. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:08, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

:Also elephants, it seems. Possibly creature size. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:18, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

:Dragons cause the same problem. Are megabeasts supposed to all show up at once like this? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:43, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

:: "All at once like this," you say? Was their a [[fun|party]] on your bridgeworks?
:: And, yeah, megabeasts kill bridge operation, even "benign" acts like retracting with them on it. It must have something to do with their BUILDINGDESTROYER tag. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 02:58, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

== Proposed addition: Mechanism sequence ==

Given the problems that arise when using non magma-safe materials for mechanisms on floodgates, it is quite handy to know which mechanisms go where at the link selection (When for example you're really low on bauxite).<br>
From my experimentation with floodgate-lever, the first mechanism selected goes at the gate and the second one at the lever. I still haven't activated the contraption, but I'm assuming it's going to be ok.<br>
I'm also assuming the same is usefull for grates and bars. --[[User:Nonickch]], unsigned

:There is some lower-down text that tells you which mechanism goes in where. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:30, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

== Finding Links ==

Is it possible to determine what a lever is linked to without pulling it and checking to see what happens? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 00:43, 6 September 2008 (EDT)
:AFAIK the only way is to attempt to link the lever to a built object and notice which one if any is not available.
:eg if you have two bridges but only one is available to be linked to, it is because you are already linked to the other one.
:This would be a really good feature if it was implemented.
:[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:55, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

:I guess this is one good use for the new note-feature: Just use the same note for lever and target. --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 10:17, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

:Right now your best way to remember what lever does what is to build a reference behind the lever as a reminder: a one-tile bridge behind the<br />"front door/bridge" lever, a support behind the "collapse the mountain" lever and so forth... or write down what does what on paper.<br />Even naming levers would be useful but for now you need the "references." -[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 06:10, 19 December 2008 (EST)

== Max number of links? ==

''Is there a limit to the amount of objects that can be linked to a lever?''--[[User:Thendash|Thendash]] 22:56, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

== Speeding the job of linking ==

Is it just me or does it not only take forever to finish the job of linking the lever to something, but also the dwarves treat it as extremely low priority? I've sometimes had to had an entire year for one of them to deign to hook it up. Incidentally, it is the Mechanics job that they use for that, right? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 15:48, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

: I haven't noticed anything about the priority of the job, but yes, it take hella long to finish it. Some big linking job (eg. linking a large bridge to a remote lever) are virtually impossible to complete without an experienced mecanic... dwarves don't manage to end the job before feeling the urge to eat or drink or something, and all their work is lost when they return, ending in an infinite loop. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 19:47, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

: Unless it's changed in the year since I've played, the mechanic must move the mechanisms to the lever and the "something", then spend time working on both the lever and the "something", all without being interrupted. Consider a 1-square stockpile next to both the lever and the something and choosing those unique mechanisms when you assign the linkage job. -- [[User:Qwip|Qwip]] 16:42, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

:: The catch, so far, is figuring out the "unique" mechanisms in the list. Short of making sure that that stockpile is the only one that carries Schist Mechanisms or something similar... Unlike the other "pick an item" lists, you can't specify a sort and there's nothing zooming you to the item that you will use. On a mildly unrelated note, I realized that part of the reason for my delay was that I was building large amounts of stone traps, so the nearest mechanism that was not already tied up in a trap building job was quote some distance away. I had this problem with the nearby stockpile as well, as it was also fairly close to the traps. It would be nice to even get a distance count on the mechanisms. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:48, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:::When you choose the mechanism for the lever or trap, it does tell you its distance.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:::: Addendum to Maximus's comment: When selecting the material to be used, you can e{{k|x}}pand the list of materials, and then select a particular item. Therefore, you can build a single-tile stockpile, then customize it (using {{k|q}} then {{k|s}}settings) to only allow a certain quality mechanism. Link the lever after these stockpiles have been filled. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 16:21, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

== Inverting a Lever ==

I think I found a way to automatically invert the signal of a lever, say if you wanted one lever to open one door and close another. It involves a bridge and water, so it would not be instant. I haven't tested it yet. Anyone know if it would work?
<pre>Side view: (Sorry, I realize this isn't the standard tileset, but my text editor doesn't have them all.)
#####
#_~@W
##D##

W - Water source (Under at least 7/7 pressure)
D - Water drain
_ - Pressure plate, set to activate under water of depth 4-7
@ - Hinge of a raisable bridge, connected to the main lever (offscreen)
~ - Bridge over channel
# - Solid rock</pre>
When the main lever is OFF, the bridge is down. It allows water to flow past its hinge, and it covers the drain. Water fills the room, triggering the plate, which sends an ON signal.<br>
When the main lever is ON, the bridge raises. The hinge blocks water from flowing in, and the uncovered drain empties the room. The plate detriggers, sending OFF.<br>
WARNING: The drain must not fill! If it does, you wont be able to get into the room to connect more mechanisms to the plate.
Option: If your water source is infinite, make your drain a hallway, at least 3 long, with a raising bridge that comes down from the far end. When the main lever is activated, the hallway floods. Shortly afterwards, the plate detriggers. After a short delay, the bridge slams down, destroying the water. <br>
--17:52, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

: Isn't it simpler to build two levers? Especially considering the pressure plate takes as many mechanisms? I don't really understand what you are trying to accomplish here.
:--[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 17:34, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

::If you want a single action to do some "on" actions and some "off" actions - e.g. if from a stylistic point of view you want to have a single "activate outer defenses" lever that raises bridges over moats and puts down bridges blocking catapults.
::--[[User:Random832|Random832]] 19:35, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

::: It's more than stylistic. My designs are complex systems, created on the assumption that only certain combinations of states are possible - that when ''this'' bridge is down, ''that'' bridge is always up, and that when ''this'' floodgate is open, ''that'' door is always closed. If I allow things to enter a condition I hadn't planned for - either because I forgot to throw both leavers, or the dwarf died between them, or whatever - there is literally no telling what would happen. It could drop civilians into a line of fire, or flood the fortress, or expose the marksdwarves to the enemy without also releasing their infantry guards.
:::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 16:08, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:I'd say you should consult the [[Computing]] and [[Mechanical Logic]] pages then. Should find all the components you need there.
:--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 16:13, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

::Doesn't help. That's all about power transfer - gears, axels, waterwheels... It only uses levers for input, not output - I could connect my controll leaver to a not-gate like [[Mechanical_Logic#NOT_or_BUFFER|this one]], but how do i connect ''that'' to a bridge?
::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 17:17, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Connect that power to a screw pump, that pours water onto a pressure plate. There's an example of such a device on the mechanics page. Take a look as Water/Fluid logic as well (Linked to on the mechanical page) for some other pump-based devices.
:::--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 06:56, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:::It's... ''workable'', I suppose. It's much more complex than the bridge system. It might be faster responding, depending on the speed at which a pump works, since there is no 100 step delay like a bridge. It would take a lot more room and mechanisms, not to mention a seperate power source for each one. Remember, each leaver you invert need its own, independent setup.
::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:09, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:::: Check out this page, it might help.. www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/User:SL/Logic_Gates.
::::[[User:Martinuzz|Martinuzz]] 8:54, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

: So the goal here is to have water on a pressure plate when a lever is set to ON. Don't hatch covers respond quicker than bridges?

: Gee, this sucks. I thought things just toggled whenever you flipped the lever. That's how it should be IMHO. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 20:31, 13 November 2008 (EST)

<pre>
Side view:

####
#^HW
##D#

^ = Pressure Plate
W - Water Inlet
D - Drain
H - Hatch Cover
# - Solid rock
</pre>
:Main lever linked to Hatch Cover (H). When the lever is OFF, the hatch is closed and the Pressure Plate (^) chamber fills. When the lever is ON, the Hatch Cover (H) disappears and water drains away before reaching the pressure plate ledge.
:[[User:Wangcommander|Wangcommander]] 01:27, 12 November 2008 (EST)

:: But since you're not actually blocking off the water, you are dependent on the fickleness of the water pressure simulation. Sure, the room would never fill with an open hatch between the water source and the hatch, but after the first use it ''starts off'' filled. Are you certain it will drain? If the water comes in from the source as fast as it goes out the drain, will it not stay full? That's the advantage of using the bridge - it is the only piece of equipment that blocks water in the ON position.
:: A hybrid design might be useful, using a bridge to block the input bu a hatch to control the output. When you switch it, the hatch instantly starts draining the water, then the bridge seals the inlet 100 ticks later to guarantee a complete drain.
:: --[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 16:04, 12 November 2008 (EST)

I might be misunderstanding the goal of this (and, for the record, I do think it's really cool), but wouldn't hooking up the lever to the thing you want non-inverted, then flipping the switch, and then hooking it up to the inverted thing accomplish the same thing? That way you have two things hooked up to the lever that are in opposite states of each other..... [[User:Zardus|Zardus]] 05:09, 26 February 2009 (EST)
:A 'Pull the lever' task is not a logical toggle. It toggles the lever, and then activates the lever to signal its current state to its linkages... That is, if the lever is in the 'open' position, pulling it flips it to 'closed' and then sends 'closed' to all its linked buildings. Anything which is, for whatever reason, currently in the 'closed' state will simply remain closed. The case you describe is such a situation. It can also arise where a lever is pulled twice in less time than it takes for the first signal to produce its effect. That is: A dwarf pulls a lever linked to a bridge. The dwarf takes 2 steps away, pauses to decide what to do, and notices that there's a pull the lever task on a lever 2 steps away. The dwarf returns to pull the lever again. The bridge has not yet raised when the second signal is sent... A little bit later, the bridge will raise, but unless the lever is pulled again, to get it into the 'raise' state, and then a fourth time to get it to the 'lower' state, the bridge will not lower.--[[User:Wattj|wattj]] 11:03, 26 February 2009 (EST)

== how to disconnect levers? ==

Is there a way to disconnect a lever from an object without destroying the lever and rebuilding it? --[[User:Shaver|Shaver]] 12:53, 2 January 2009 (EST)
:You can't, to my knowledge. Mechanisms in a lever and the connections stay in place until the lever is deconstructed. I use a lever for cage traps in an arena, and after every 'round' I need to rebuild it to get back the mechanisms I used. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 14:17, 2 January 2009 (EST)

== See what's connected to a lever? ==

Is there a way to see what's connected to a lever? I've lost track of which lever does what, and I'd prefer to not randomly set off my traps trying each one out. --[[User:Katt|Katt]] 00:15, 3 March 2009 (EST)

No. This is why its a good idea to keep levers proximal to objects they connect to. I also try to color code levers to the object and gears used for the connection. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:36, 3 March 2009 (EST)

You can also use the Notes thing to label them. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 17:15, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Mystery levers have historically been a great source of [[fun]]. Especially in bloodline games. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 10:16, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Soldier

2009-06-03T19:23:29Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* The Cripple Squad */

I currently have a champion who will not obey orders. She has picked a station herself and remains there no matter what I do. Is this a champion behavior in 2.7?--[[User:Mlcy]]
:Champions always behaved that way as far as I know. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:40, 28 November 2007 (EST)

== No more sparring? ==

For some reason, my military has stopped sparring. I have 4 Wrestler Champions, 2 Wrestler Elites, 1 Wrestler, and they're all 'Soldier'ing. I now want to bring them all up to legendary Swordsdwarves too, but they just. Won't. Train. They have swords and a barracks, and they're not on duty. Still no training. Help? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 07:09, 3 December 2007 (EST)
:Make sure there is a barrack designated for them to train. You may have unconstructed one of the furniture from which you've designated the room, so you'd need to do it again. Also, dwarves need to train in pair, and they don't always train. They often take breaks. This mean that the biggest the amount of trainees you have, the greatest the chance two of them will head at the same time to the barracks to train. Also, they will never train unless you go in the military screen, enter each individual squad setting with {{K|v}} and then hit {{K|t}} to make them "stand down". Don't forget to do exactly the same again to place them "on duty" if you ever want to send them fighting again. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:26, 3 December 2007 (EST)
:: Viable barracks, check. Several pairs, check. Stood down, check. The weird thing is that they were sparring like nutters in order to get up to Champion, and then they all just lost interest and started Soldiering. I note above that Champions have a mind of their own - maybe they can't be trained to legendary in an additional weapon, or stop sparring altogether at legendary? Also, there's an unresolved post in the bug forum that suggests that dwarves only spar for 3 years. Odd. I'm not hugely bothered because there's nothing for the army to kill; no sieges and no megabeasts. Bit boring, really. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 19:31, 3 December 2007 (EST)
::: I think I ran into the "no sparring after 3 years" bug, as my champions stopped sparring after around 3-4 years, then never sparred for the next 10 years, even when I drafted new recruits. They started sparring when I (f)reed the existing barracks and redesignated a new one from an armor rack instead of a bed.--[[User:Langdon|Langdon]] 00:02, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

== only water? ==
Do soldiers only drink water? Both those who carry water and those who dont, complain about not having had booze for too long and becoming slow. Even the ones who are standing down dont seem to get booze. My piles are loaded and my civilians are ok, so that cant be the problem. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 16:26, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:They should only do that if you have them set to use waterskins. It's generally better to just have them not use waterskins so that they'll go for a refreshing alcoholic beverage when they need a drink like regular dwarves. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 19:11, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:: I think i have it worked out; they don't drop the waterskin, even if you make them civilians or tell them not to carry water, and they use up the water inside before going for booze again. What you can do is order the waterskin dumped and a fellow dwarf will take it off him. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:09, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

== Cluttering my stockpiles ==

My soldiers are leaving their junk, mostly clothing, laying all over the place. I have a barracks room with about 20 beds in it, although its all the same room. Can I just throw some coffers in the barracks room for them to put their stuff, or do I need to designate individual rooms with containers in them? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 01:33, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

I made each of the beds separate rooms and put in a bunch of coffers, they are not moving their stuff, do i have to assign the barracks bedrooms, or will they claim them? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 12:17, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

Okay, I feel dumb now. I am putting cabinets in the rooms as well... --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 12:28, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

Alright, I have cabinets next to every bed, as well as coffers, and they are assigned to dwarfs. They still are not moving their possessions. Is there any other way to move them? Dumping does not work, and neither do stockpiles for that item. --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 14:15, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
:Undraft them and wait. If you are lucky, they might decide to clean their junk. If you are VERY lucky. They won't do it, while drafted, EVEN if they are standing down.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:09, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
::Thanks for the tip, they seem to be cleaning up their stuff... very very slowly. I think this is going to take awhile. --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 01:01, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

== Overcoming Sobriety ==

I left a Champion on Use Waterskin for too long, and now he's beyond caring about the world. Any idea how long he'll take to drink himself out of his apathy? [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 14:32, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

:I'm confused... you can't directly make a dwarf only drink water. Anyway, "beyond caring" is, IIRC, caused by seeing lots of death, and it's a good thing (I believe it limits the effect of negative thoughts, while also limiting positive ones). [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 18:37, 13 November 2008 (EST)

::Actually, a soldier assigned a waterskin will indeed drink only water, which is why you should ''never assign them waterskins''. Hrmph. And "not caring about anything anymore" is caused by witnessing a lot of death, and is, like you say, a good thing, despite how it sounds.

::Did the soldier get back on the bottle, Romeo?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:57, 13 November 2008 (EST)

== The Cripple Squad ==

I have a military consisting of roughly a half marksdwarves, a fifth champions, and the rest melee dwarves. Unfortunatly, most of these melee users have spinal injuries (brown-ish or grey). Luckily, most of them are right below "great" in their primary skill. Would it be in my best interests to slap on a custom title and send them to do civilian work?
: Crosstrain the spinal-bruised as marksdwarves, I think they can still practice target-shooting with spine injuries. If they were any worse injured, I'd say use them to fill Fortress Guard positions. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 19:23, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

== The enemy of my enemy is my friend ==

Should we note that, at least in my game, soldiers tend to become friends with other soldiers quickly? Currently some of my nobles and even some of my more "sociable" dwarves (the ones working in areas with many other people) have no friends, yet a recently drafted recruit is already friends with one of my marksdwarves. I think this subject could do with some research (including of squadmates tend to be friends, if squad captains tend to be friends with one another, etc.)[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 03:51, 14 November 2008 (EST)
:Soldiers take a moment to chat after they spar together, presumably talking about their sparring. Since talking becomes part of their routine, soldiers make friends with the other soldiers pretty quickly. In most of my fortresses, most civilians are lucky to have 2 friends, while soldiers usually have 5-10.
:Incidentally, this is a huge problem for the mood of your armed forces; having a squad wiped out is quite likely to cause tantrums in the other squads. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 00:19, 14 November 2008 (EST)
:: Damn I keep forgetting to sign. Anyway, yeah, one of my champions happens to have something along the lines of 27 friends and all proficient or near proficient talking skills... 0_o. Now I can see destroying my (mostly friendly firing) atom smasher was an even smarter move (last time I only lost an expert marksdwarf). [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 03:51, 14 November 2008 (EST)
::This can also lead to soldiers falling in love and marrying quite often, leading to some of your forces wading into battle wielding babies... --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 09:29, 14 November 2008 (EST)
:::Aka meatshields.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:02, 14 November 2008 (EST)
::Soldiers divide their time between training and standing around in meeting halls. To reduce the amount of socializing they do, you can create more and larger meeting halls; however, soldiers will always follow their leaders. Even if the squad commander is sleeping in a private room, they'll all come to watch and talk with each other. At the least, smaller squads and more meeting places and barracks will mean less interaction, both in general and between squads.--[[User:Navian|Navian]] 12:36, 14 November 2008 (EST)

I've been trying a military-heavy fortress with at least 75% drafted and apart from the first couple of batches of recruits, most of the soldiers (upwards of forty or fifty) don't have any friends at all. Standing down soldiers have not been in squads and I've got one large barracks where everyone trains and there are no meeting halls. I suppose that in a larger army soldiers would be less likely to spar with the same dwarf twice and minimising the different opportunities for socialising in meeting halls is no doubt adding to this as well. It's actually turning out pretty useful because my army seems to be able to actually absorb losses without everyone falling into misery and unhappiness. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 00:00, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== Restructure military articles? ==

How would everyone feel if I

1. moved the descriptions of the soldier classes to their respective weapon articles.
2. changed the skill articles (e.g. the "marksdwarf" page) to say something like "Marksman is the skill that controls how good you are at using a [[crossbow]]."
3. beef up each weapon article with all the info I can find regarding that weapon, its users, and how it's best used in combat.

[[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:48, 19 November 2008 (EST)

:I've been thinking that all the weapon-specific stuff should be in [[weapon]], not in separate articles: when choosing a weapon, it'd be good to have the pluses and minuses all on one page. I'd convert the prose into weapon-centric format instead of "weaponsdwarf" format.

:It's hard to get solid info on what each weapon is good for. Adventurer mode one way to test, but that doesn't tell you how effectively DF-mode dwarves fight with them. I'll share what little I know right now: ''any'' weapon, even a wooden one in the hands of a newbie, is better than wrestling. It takes forever to do real damage while wrestling. It's okay against individual weak animals but disastrous against a goblin squad. Your dwarves will either get chopped in half while wasting time, or exhausted, which makes them extremely vulnerable to damage. Wrestling skills are desirable for dodging, and a good way to keep sparring dwarves from cutting each other apart, but pathetic on offense.

:Swords and spears periodically get stuck. The only time I've seen that to be a real problem in combat is against zombies: both creatures freeze up, a bug I reported to Toady recently. Aside from that, though, swords work well. Axes work great against anything. There's really no effective defense against getting chopped into little bits. Hammers and maces work fine, at least against goblins. Despite what the article says about blunt weapons repelling the enemy, I've seen swords and axes do that as well. Maybe hammers just do it better. Regardless, anything that gets thrown backward by a blow is not getting up again. Though it does seem to me that edged weapons kill foes more quickly -- maybe because of bleeding.

:Crossbows are utterly lethal, especially in the hands of an elite marksdwarf. Even a novice with a crossbow can usually kill any single non-megabeast safely. But they run out of bolts very quickly, so never send a marksdwarf into combat alone.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:55, 19 November 2008 (EST)

== Heroes & Champions ==
<blockquote>
Alternatively, a dwarf on the verge of becoming a hero in one weapon skill can be transferred to another weapon and retrained; the attribute bonuses from gaining each weapon skill will stack.
</blockquote>

Does this mean that once a dwarf reaches Hero level, if you change his weapon preference he will gain no attribute bonuses as he increases skill? Would it then be preferable to allow a hero to reach legendary if he's already passed hero? Or if you change his weapon, will he gain attribute bonuses for the levels in his new weapon that are beyond his old weapon's maximum? --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 16:35, 16 January 2009 (EST)
:To answer own my question, with some help from the #df on Synirc (Thanks TC and mezo), the soldier will gain attributes from all skill levels he achieves. That is say they always stack. Once Hero status is achieved, one only loses the ability to undraft them. I'm going to change the article to be more clear. --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 16:55, 20 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Eerie glowing pit

2009-05-30T20:25:15Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Unchained humanoids? */ will die of thirst eventually.

{{spoiler}}

== The Demons ==

How powerful ARE the demons now? I gather that a pit chamber will release piles of them, but how many and how nasty are they all? Wonder if adamantine is really worth it... though if you've planned it out, I suppose it might be. Wonder how many demons a legendary dwarf warrior wielding masterwork adamantine weapons and armor could take out by himself!

:They're as nasty as they used to be. -- [[User:Zaratustra|Zaratustra]] 11:38, 20 November 2007 (EST)

:I had repulsed the initial wave of 1 Daemon and 7 Spirits of Fire by 5 marksdwarves and 4 axedwarves. 2 marksdwarves and 2 axedwarves were Elite in full steel chain/plate, others - on their way to it. Lost all axedwarves and 1 marksdwarf in the process. A few seasons later I thought that there weren't much more daemons and breached the pits in a new spot. By that time I had 3 Champion marksdwarves in Fortress Guard (not controllable at all :( ), ~20 wardogs, 4 other marksdwarves, 2 of which - Elite and 4 axedwarves/hammerdwarves at about 'competent' each. All the civilians (90 of them) were drafted into military with some extra weapons and no armor including ~10 miners from Legendary to novice with picks. The aftermath in the units screen is 16 dead Spirits of Fire including 7 from the initial attack, 10 live and happy Spirits of Fire with '''very''' long names, probably some more Spirits of Fire in ambush/invisible to me state and 5 recruits resting and dehydratated in remote corners of my bedroom area. There were immence lags when my stockpiles cathed fire and it were heavily lagging when I got there in adventure mode. --[[User:Another|Another]] 15:05, 20 November 2007 (EST)

:I just recently breached a pit, only to result in my entire fortress virtually being annihilated, 109 military dwarves were killed, including a Hammerlord with a legendary adamantine hammer, a mortally wounded Legendary Captain of the Guard, and the daemons lost only 50 total. --[[User:Naze|Naze]] 23:19, 12 December 2007

:I cleansed a demon pit that included exactly 30 fire spirits and a demon. I built a corridor to the chamber, filled it with spikes and chained them to a lever, with the pull lever/R action. It worked quite well despite the fact that my spikes were melt by the demons as they approached. They eventually had to go through a corridor where marksdwarves were stationned. They killed 5 marksdwarves, and some managed to enter my fortress undetected. I was VERY lucky because the fortress guard was useful! If you disable TEMPERATURE, they will be destroyed with no sweat. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 09:01, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:If you re-site your barracks to just outside the pits, then your fortress guard will find themselves joining the front line... [[User:YayTheDwarves|YayTheDwarves]] 09:58, 11 January 2008 (EST)

: from Lumpen on SomethingAwful: "Last night I cracked into the glowing pits and massacred the demons by filtering them through a massive maze of twisting fortifications through which my legendary siege operators unleashed a hail of over a hundred ballista arrows cranked out by 6 ballistae." So, that could work. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 12:19, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

:I broke into the pitlast night, and beforeI could close it up, frog demons were across my cut of adamantine viens. I sent very little, but very strong people down there, as I only had about 39 dwarves :D. They killed them no sweat. They had abit trouble with a demon. There was only about 10 of the that came from the pit. I was quick to seal up where the whole where the demons came out of, yet my fortress still being able to get in.

== Magma mini-pipes/vents? ==

Are the magma bits considered unconnected, and thus will cool to obsidian, or are they in effect pipes/vents and will refill via the new code? --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 23:29, 26 February 2008 (EST)

:there is no such thing as disconnected magma solidifying. that was added for some reason by someone to the wiki a long time ago but is incorrect. magma that is not connected anything will stay magma forever. the only way to turn it into obsidian is by adding water -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 05:15, 27 February 2008 (EST)

::Although, to be fair, depth 1 magma will cool to, um... air or something. At any rate, if you let it get to depth 1 it evaporates, much like water. Except more frustrating, because it's very slow to begin with.--[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 03:36, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

:::Twas cooling in 2D. And what about refilling?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 02:20, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::What? Magma didn't ever cool in 2D, except for the special event that sometimes occurred on breaching the magma river.
::::ah, the magma river. The name brings back such memories...
::::--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:10, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Rewalling/Flooring ==

If you floor over the glowing pit rather as opposed to rewalling do the demons still spawn? [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 18:18, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

:No, reflooring still can release demons. Tested the hard way. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:31, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

:Additionally, building walls over every glowing pit tile still releases demons. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 00:18, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

== First encounter ==

A creature I am developing, called the solen, was tested today using these. That is, demons. And the interesting thing is, fourteen have slaughtered--so far--about...

20 tentacle demons, 5 daemons.

Shall I upload pics of the room, its contents, and the glowing pit itself? Also I think this should be moved to ''Eerie Glowing Pit'', as that's what it really is. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 17:21, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

:I like the move idea. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:10, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Captives ==

what happens if you free the captives in a glowing pit after surviving the demon onslaught? --[[User:0todd0|0todd0]] 02:08, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:dunno, think they just go around babbling or somesuch :\ --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 04:32, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::They are all insane, mostly melancholy. If you unhook them, they just act like melancholy dwarves and wander around or throw themselves in the pit. Poor guys :( --[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 13:28, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Unchained humanoids? ==

The article talks about caged/chained humanoids.

Well, I have so far breached two pits. One had a floor of caged humanoids. That was the most recent one, which I breached carefully (and with cheating).

The first one, I breached with stairs (which was dumb, because they couldn't be stopped at that point by rewalling). Inside the chamber there were at least 40 '''unchained''' melancholy/crazy humanoids. They immediately started trying to flee, along with the demons. The initial wave of "refugees" lagged my fortress to the pits and back. They were free to begin with.

has this happened to anyone else?
[[User:Logical2u|Logical2u]] 11:35, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

:: Well, I breached my first pit ever last night. Thing was 4 stories, connected by stairs all the way to the lowest Z-Axis level. 3 floors FULL of Elves and Humans caged/chained. My Fortress pretty much lagged up into infinity at that point. It's gotten a little better, but it's still pretty bad. I appreciate the asthetic value, but good lord I hope Toady changes some of this in the future. Either let SOME of the Humans and Elves vamoose back to wherever they initially came from (I bet it's a funny story how they ended up in a glowing pit being tortured by unimaginable horrors from the deep....), or make a good point out of them trying to get a 10/10 on their headfirst dive into magma. [[User:Archaeologist|Archaeologist]] 00:53, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:::They've been driven to insanity and care about nothing anymore. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 01:28, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:::: So how do we get rid of the little lag monsters? Wait, nevermind, the sudden wave of tentacle monsters killing EVERYTHING seems to have been more than adequate. [[User:Archaeologist|Archaeologist]] 02:43, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::::: Well, my tentacle demons killed nothing (apart some marksdwarves), and I still got '''104''' (not kidding, there's more than 5 pages of them in the "u" menu) elves, dwarves and humans babbling around. How am I supposed to kill them all ? Most of them are still in the chamber, and because of the adamantine veins I can't force myself to flood it with magma, create a cave in or something like that. It will be fairly complicated to kill them with the dwarven atom smasher too... Do you have any ideas ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 15:18, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::[[Ballista]]e --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 15:34, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
::::::Time. Leave it a season and they'll all starve or die of thirst. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:11, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, they can do that ? Even if it's, err, NPC ? The merchants never die of thirst or starve, for instance. Anyway, it's "great". :) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
::::::::They can do that! Don't know about diplomats etc, but the chained humanoids - i.e. anything labelled "From the Deep" in the {{K|u}} menu - can definitely starve, as of 40d. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 19:31, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
::::::::Confirmed. Refugees are physically unharmed but all insane and wearing nothing but filth, blood, and stains. My refugees all died about two months later, all on the same week, except the caged ones. Evidently insanity means forgetting to drink when you're thirsty. The tortured dwarves were laid to rest with proper dwarf coffins by my citizens. The elves...were added to the bonepile. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 20:25, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Trap

2009-05-30T19:29:26Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Dwarven Flame Belcher */

== Cage traps clarification ==

I think I know the answer, but are ANY sort of cages suitable for trapping any kind of invading monster (except those that evade traps altogether, such as kobalds). The page mentions a glass trap catching a colossus, but will that also apply to a rickety wooden trap? I haven't produced any glass. --[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 06:18, 29 May 2008 (EDT)
:Yes. I've had a bronze colossus trapped in an Ashen Cage before. I don't think creatures care what you trap them in.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:59, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

== cage traps for food ==
Couldn't one generate a mild supplementary food source by putting cage traps out on the map at random? Or create rows of them to catch aggressive creatures that are chasing down a fleeing dwarf. The ability to place them on the surface has some interesting possibilities. [[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 04:45, 4 November 2007 (EST)

: You can really do this with any kind of trap now - I built a 1 tile wide stair/corridor up an exposed cliff face, and as I was concerned about goblins and the like I stonefall-trapped it. Ever since then some of the local wildlife has used it to get up and down the 5 z-level cliff, with predictable and hilarious results. The goats just die, but the marmots are hurled off the cliff face to splatter on the ground below. It's a nice easy meat/leather/fat source, as well as being entertaining "Dwarfy McDwarf cancels reload stone trap - interrupted by (flying) hoary marmot" [[User:Acama|Acama]] 19:48, 20 December 2007 (EST)

==berserk dwarves==
Will berserk dwarves set off pressure plates? Toady mentioned he was going to stop that from happening [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:39, 4 November 2007 (EST)

On a possibly related note, pets CAN set off traps. Although in my experience the pet has to be falling unconscious to do so. [[User:Anonymousphrase|Anonymousphrase]] 22:43, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

[[image:Pet_setting_off_trap.png]]

It may also be the case that you can also get pets killed by a trap if they're in the square when a hostile sets off the trap. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 12:42, 28 May 2008 (EDT)

==flooding a spiked pit==
Will flooding a spiked pit break or cancel the spike trap? I'd test this, but I don't have the channel dug in yet. --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:30, 5 November 2007 (EST)
:confirmed that flooding doesn't affect spear/spike traps. [[User:YayTheDwarves|YayTheDwarves]] 17:52, 6 January 2008 (EST)

I'm pretty sure the "corpse stuck in trap" chance is 50%, according to Toady either on IRC or some forgotten forum post a few months back. I really can't remember for sure. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:31, 10 November 2007 (EST)
:Do spike traps stop functioning if a corpse gets stuck in them, or can you just retract and continue using as usual? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 13:11, 9 December 2008 (EST)

==cage traps/ fire imps==
I've secured the entries oy my magma furnaces with cage traps, but it seems that the fire imps just walk through.
Just as the Giant moles did. How so? --[[User:Doub|Doub]]
:supposedly there is a bug that causes any creatures on the map when it is generated to count as residents, and thus know where your traps are and not trigger them. I've never run into the problem myself, but I've never specifically tested for it so I can't really say for sure if it still exists (or ever did). --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 07:41, 6 January 2008 (EST)
:I had read about this and tried it out with a trapped coridoor next to my magma vent - an imp I tempted out walked right through 4 cage traps and 4 stonefall traps without triggering them. Seems like indigenous life is currently trap-immune. Most magma creatures can be dealt with by a few marksdwarves though, so you're only in serious trouble if you have a herd of skeletal hippos on your map on embark.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 15:42, 19 January 2008 (EST)
::There's always the menacing spike + lever combo. And pits. [[User:Benitosimies|Benitosimies]] 16:08, 10 March 2008 (EDT)
::I've killed fire imps and magmamen with stone fall traps --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 01:20, 19 July 2008 (EDT)
:I've caught native fire imps in cage traps loaded with green glass terrariums. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 21:42, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

==Trolls and Cages==
I'm planning on making the only passage to my fortress filled with cage traps, but I'm not sure if dwarves going out and migrants and traders coming in will be affected by them. Does anyone know? Also, do trolls smash goblin cages? [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 21:41, 23 January 2008 (EST)
:Only hostile units will trigger traps. Trolls only smash buildings and after a goblin is captured the cage is not built. So the answer to your second question is no. --[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 21:45, 23 January 2008 (EST)
::Make sure to forbid the traps when the siege starts. Otherwise your dwarves will rush out to reload them and store all the cages. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 22:53, 23 January 2008 (EST)

==Thieves and trap avoidance==
Is it possible that Kobold thieves/Goblin master thieves can also trigger traps? I think I killed one and caged another master thief in the past. Maybe the quality of the mechanism is important here? --[[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 13:24, 17 March 2008 (UTC+1)

:goblin thieves, both regular and master, have always triggered traps -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 14:18, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

::So why does the article then say "Sneaking enemies do not trigger traps"? Goblin master thieves seem very sneaky to me. --[[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 20:33 17 March 2008 (UTC+1)

:::once goblin thieves are revealed they are captured fine. even revealed kobolds dont trigger. -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:45, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
:::: At least "normal" goblin thieves are scewered fine without being detected, says my weapon trap --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 16:58, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
:::: I have to agree with Koltom, I got an "Ambush" event when a goblin (master) thief went into a cage trap, and had another one cut to pieces by a serrated disc, which I only noticed when suddenly all my dwarves rushed off to remove his clothes. --[[User Quertyu|Qwertyu]] 13:31 (UTC+1)
:::: Weapon traps apparently have a chance of friendly fire. At least, that's what the ghost of my Kitten(tame) told me... [[User:QMarx|QMarx]] 18:48, 13 April 2008 (EDT)
::::: I think traps have a chance to trigger against theives, not an absolute yes or no. Also, remember that a citizen going unconscious on a trap will trigger it. The reason animals do so is because they ignore traffic designations, of which I presume traps create an invisible 'no sleep' tile. I've tested locking a dwarf in a room where the entire floor space was covered with traps, they starved to death before sleeping on the traps. However, if a dwarf is knocked unconscious by fighting or a bridge, then they will still trigger traps. [[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 23:43, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== Crossbow Trap? ==

How does a crossbow trap work? Does it have line of sight, like a Dwarf? <small>– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Lordmick134|Lordmick134]]</small>

Ranged weapons in weapon traps work much the same as melee weapons do, attacking the creature which triggered the trap. The only real difference in functionality seems to be that they require and use up appropriate ammunition, and (according to the article) do not get occasionally stuck and need cleaning like melee weapons in a weapon trap do. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 21:31, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

How much ammo gets loaded into a crossbow trap? I have 10 individual bolts in one and a stack of 39 in another. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:48, 24 November 2008 (EST)

:I assume they load it with whatever stack is close at hand. They'd probably load it with a 1-er if you don't forbid used ammo.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:07, 24 November 2008 (EST)

== Trapping cave dwellers ==

Has anyone sucessfully caged a cave dwelling megabeast? I have tried on two seperate maps to capture a minotaur and an ettin, both times the monster just run right through the cage traps. Perhaps creatures that are spawned on embark are bugged immune to traps?

as said above, some creatures that spawn on the map dont seem to be caught in traps. however, i successfully caught and with the dugeon master, tamed, a giant cave spider that was living in my chasm. I designated it as available for a pet. a legendary engraver adopted it, so i drafted him and am training him up now. hopefully the giant cave spider that now follows him everywhere will be happy to defend its owner against goblins. megabeasts that spawn and attack you can be caged, in fact, its the easiest way by far to deal with them. some, like dragons can then be tamed. im assuming your etin and minotaur fall under the aforementioned bug... try a later game version. --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 13:04, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

==Weapon Trap Jamming==
The page says crossbow weapon traps don't jam, but what about a trap with a crossbow and a melee weapon? Does the crossbow still fire if the trap jams? Or does a trap have to be pure crossbows to avoid jamming? --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 01:21, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

:Well, it jams in my experience as of 40d, I tried mixed trap, when something jams, the whole trap stops [[User:TettyNullus|TettyNullus]] 18:26, 30 November 2008 (EST)

== Trap betrayals? ==

Has anyone else been betrayed by their own traps? I had a dog and a crossbowman killed by weapons traps. Serrated iron disks ripped through their bodies like the bloody tusks of enraged elephants.

Correction. A dog, a crossbowman, and a miner. Will the slaughter never end?--[[User:Amenos42|Amenos42]] 12:08, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

I've noticed that traps tend to fire on people/animals with injuries. They've killed lots of 3 legged dogs for me, and a soldier that was dragging himself off the field.

: Traps will (also) trip for any and all unconscious individuals. That may be or be one of the reasons. [[User:Drawf irons|Drawf irons]] 20:53, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

::Does that include dead individuals? And is it possible to get my dead dog out of his cage? --[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 01:32, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Mark it for dumping? That's usually the solution as to how to get anything out of anywhere! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 09:34, 16 August 2008 (EDT)

== Cage Trap Question ==

I recently received the message that there was a goblin snatcher in my fortress. It zoomed the page to one of the 3 cage traps. I took the game off pause and it gave me the same message again. Now I have two cave traps sprung, and when I press "k" and go over them, one says : "goblin cage (Larch)" and the other says "Goblin cage(nickel)". Does this mean I have successfully caught the scoundrels? Or are they still at large?

:If there is a flashing 'g' then yes, if no than It could be possibly a bug.[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 08:25, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

== Stone Fall Update: Watch Out!! ==

This is as of release '''0.28.181.39f''': in the past hour I saw two of my own dwarves - both normal healthy members of society - get killed in two different stone fall traps I'd had set up. Clearly, the old rule that dwarves are immune to their own traps is no longer entirely accurate...unless there's a bug going on here? Has anyone else fallen prey to this occurrence? [[User:Grand marquis|Grand marquis]] 06:31, 16 August 2008 (EDT)

:See two sections up. :P Anything unconscious will trigger traps currently - did those dwarves fall asleep on the trap square maybe? I've changed the section on triggering traps, so it gives at least a little hint that backfiring is now possible! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 09:33, 16 August 2008 (EDT)

== Room of Spiky Death ==
Alright, after a long, long time, I finally got myself a gross(144) of menacing green glass spikes. I'm planning to put them in airlock area of my castle, so that I can trap the goblins who have been annoying me and spike them to death. Each trap will use ten spikes, and there are 14 of them. There's an animal planted as bait, and once I raise both draw bridges, there's no way out. Can anyone tell me if there is something I should know before embarking on this death spree? -[[User:Cypress|Cypress]] 14:47, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

Yes. Be prepared for blood. lots and lots of blood. also, it will be awesome.--[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 00:56, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

== Stop dwarves from automaticaly cleaning traps and getting killed. ==

its in the title. first big siege comes in, hits the first line of traps in my entry hall of death, and then half the fortress runs out en mass to clean them, getting killed by the goblins in front and the ballista bolts from behind. they also block my military from getting past. this is agonizing! children, peasants, legendary craftsdwarves and nobles all are susceptible. aaaaarrrrrrggh! --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 17:35 30 September 2008 UTC
:Lock the doors. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:49, 20 September 2008 (EDT)
:Forbid the traps, at least until the siege is over. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 17:20, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
:Build the traps well outside (removing the roof and rebuilding with blocks still counts as "outside"), and forbid your dwarves to go out. [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 12:17, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm having a similar problem with this, they dont want to clean the traps anymore, oh no, they want to clean the damned splatters of blood off the walls after! luckily my fortress entrance is so convoluted that it takes a full day to traverse it, but It could become a problem in the future. [[User:Heliman|Heliman]] 11:16, 16 May 2009 (EST)

== Caged Creatures and Loot ==

''In this case remove the poor fellow using the goblin's inventory screen.''

I just caught my first goblin in my outer line of defenses! It wasn't even complete yet. *dances* Only, I can't seem to access the bugger's inventory screen. How get his goods off him without killing him? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 04:12, 7 November 2008 (EST)
:Mark the bag (or whatever) he's holding for dumping via the stocks screen. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:29, 7 November 2008 (EST)

== weapon trap ==

anyone got a good combo for a weapon trap setup? I have magma so my last line of defense is a 3x3 grid of serrated green glass disk weapon traps- with ten each. It is generally a one-hit-kill, if they make it past my cage trap field. Anyway, share some good weapon combos here. Good meaning easily producible yet deadly, or really effective.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 00:47, 5 December 2008 (EST)

: Bone crossbows trap, nuff said, all you need are some stones, and breeding pairs, and off ya go. Might be a bit high-maintance, but it never jams, and as long as you still have animals and stone around, you can make more of 'em, and fill 'em with just animals. -- [[User:TettyNullus|TettyNullus]] 01:46, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:I tend to do 2-3 of whatever weapon I've got on hand per trap. This is usually either glass weapons that I've been making to train a glassmaker or silver or copper weapons that I've been training a weaponsmith on. Weapon traps reset quickly between attacks, so a line of 2- or 3-weapon traps 3-4 deep is usually plenty. And why go through the trouble of reloading traps just to avoid an occasional jam? Save your bone bolts for training marksdwarves. IMO.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:07, 8 December 2008 (EST)

::Metal tend to be in short supply in early fortresses, and those with lack of wood to burn through. Beside the jamlessness is just a bonus, nicely balanced by the difficulity of keeping it supplied. Breeding pairs of animals are cheap and counts as renewable resource, they provides food, leather and bone, as long as there're enough breeding pairs to keep going. Animal husbandery can be slightly complicated with a -lot- of animals but the benefit is you have armour, weapon and food resource no matter where you go ( And as long as there're enough of 'em to breed ). It's really more player preference and avaliable resources so YMMV! (Plus last I recall, the only weapons that can be made with bones are crossbows, at least in vanilla DF using dwarves, correct me if I'm wrong, since some maps don't have woods. And some don't have stones but at least you can arm your guys with bone and leather equipments) -- [[User:TettyNullus|TettyNullus]] 01:30, 10 December 2008 (EST) ed: forget to say that I've had sieges big enough to run through 5 deep of fully loaded glass disc traps, that'd be stopped almost completelly by fully loaded crossbow traps with even bone bolts, but maybe I've just been lucky.

== Dwarven Flame Belcher ==

I'm modding DF to support a flamethrower trap component, and I was wondering whether 'charcoal' is an acceptable ammunition. More specifically, I'm curious what the proper name for refined coal is.

[ITEM_TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_FLAMEBELCHER]
[NAME:flame belcher:flame belchers]
[ADJECTIVE:dwarven]
[DAMAGE:100:HEAT]
[WEIGHT:200]
[HITS:1]
[CRITBOOST:1]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:4]
[RANGED:CROSSBOW:CHARCOAL]
[METAL]

It's designated as a crossbow because I don' know if RANGED will work without a skill. And so crossbow users in adventure mode can have fun. --[[User:RaguCat|RaguCat]] 14:13, 11 December 2008 (EST)

:If you wanted to be really awesome, you'd have Naptha produceable at an alchemists, and use Naptha as fuel. I suppose you could have Naptha be made from coke and soap, although really you'd need some oil too... but adding oil to the game sounds complicated. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:06, 11 December 2008 (EST)

::Do you mean napalm?--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 20:24, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

: Refined coal is [[coke]] in the game. Whiskey is a nice burny liquid your dwarves know how to make, but it's wasted on goblins. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 19:29, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

== Spike Trap hit falling goblin ==

I had a spike trap surrounded by walls that I would drop gobbos on from 6 z-levels above; the idea was to stun them and then have a dwarf grind them to death. However, the first goblin I dropped died on impact (previous goblins did not) and got stuck in the spike trap. The trap wasn't being operated at the time. Has spike impact been added? --[[User:LucienSadi|LucienSadi]] 18:22, 22 December 2008 (EST)

== Friendlies ''completely'' immune to traps? ==

Unless I'm mistaken, except in a few cases, friendlies are immune to traps; if a friendly unit is on the same tile as a trap and an enemy triggers the trap only the enemy will get hurt. Right? --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 01:24, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Well it depends, if the trap in question is a spike trap, it will not discriminate between friend or foe, otherwise a trap shouldn't harm any conscious ally--[[User:Heliman|Heliman]] 2:12, May 17 2009 (EST)

== Traps + Caravans = very bad ==

Today, I had an elven caravan run into my weapon traps... they all died... this may be because they were wounded from goblin ambush but it is still kind of weird, is this a bug? or is it supposed to happen?

Correction: happened twice, first the elven, then a human caravan was ambushed and the same thing happened when they tried to flee to my fortress

:Friendly units can be caught in traps if they lose consciousness, which would usually be due to wounds. Although it could also happen if a dwarf with no bed happened to go to sleep on a trapped tile. --[[User:FunkyWaltDogg|FunkyWaltDogg]] 05:30, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

== Caged Dwarfs not immortal ==

So the bit about trapping berserk ones instead of killing them needs to be updated out of existence. I fiddeled with a rewrite where in I tried to say it myself, but I'm not very good, so I didn't post it.

== Stonefall traps not being reloaded?==
I don't know what is going on, but in my game, some of the stonefall traps don't seem to get reloaded since they show a whole bunch of stone on top of it which blinks as it should when icons are on top of each other, however, I'm not sure if this is normal or not.--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 21:56, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
:Sure they reload them, just not with the same stone. Because dwarves are stupid like that. I just dump the excess stones once they get annoying enough. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 23:47, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
:: Apparently so. Anyways, it was looking like the stones were actually blocking the traps from working right, so I cleared them anyway. Those goblin seiges are pretty skittish, once they take a few casualties from my traps, they run like chickens.--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 01:28, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
:: It seems that when dwarves are assigned a job to load a trap, they will pick up stone closest to their current location, not closest to trap. --[[User:Denspb|Denspb]] 18:16, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

40d:Demon

2009-05-30T19:21:29Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Defenses against Demons */ Menacing steel spikes on repeat FTW

{{spoiler}}

[[Image:Mountain_air_pocket.JPG|thumb|right|250px|Here, demons appear as red and green ampersands.]]

A Demon is an evil fast moving creature that will either severely wound or kill your [[dwarf|dwarves]] and [[animal]]s. Their attacks include projectile fireballs and hand to hand combat. Most are living and as such are especially vulnerable to weapons with high critical boost such as [[spear]]s and [[crossbow]] [[bolt]]s.

Demons are immune to [[Trap#Stone-fall_Trap|stone-fall traps]], [[Trap#Weapon_Trap|weapon traps]], [[Trap#Cage_Trap|cage traps]] and will destroy your [[door]]s and [[floodgate]]s. At least some of them are able to fly and survive under [[Water|water]] and [[Magma|magma]].

==Defenses against Demons==

*Demons, as large, living enemies, are somewhat susceptible to piercing damage - [[spear]] and [[arrow]]s work well. A well trained, well equipped [[speardwarf]] can mix it up with frog and [[tentacle demon]]s, however will likely not get the chance to close with a [[Spirit_of_fire|Spirit of Fire]] before being immolated by the Spirit's ranged [[fire]] attack. Spirits also lack most vital organs that spears target in any case. Spirits can be reliably brought down by [[marksdwarf|marksdwarves]], but expect losses on both sides of that matchup. You can signifigantly improve your survival rate by placing the marksdwaves behind [[fortification]]s - the incoming fireballs have a chance to not penetrate the fortifications, which is higher the farther away the demon fired from.

*[[Siege weapon]]s can be useful against demons. A [[ballista|ballista]] bolt will kill a demon, and a ballista fired down a narrow hallway channelling the demons into your field of fire will kill several. Use [[wall]]s and fortifications to give your siege crew some protection from fireballs, and remember your crew will panic and run once the demons get too close, which will happen ''quickly'' as the demons are quite fast.

*One effective anti-demon tactic is to equip your entire fortress with crossbows, quivers and bolts and order them all into 1-dwarf squads. Station every one dwarf squad on the same tile. The result should be a single tile capable of launching 60+bolts in seconds. Set a space 4-6 tiles closer to the demons as a meeting zone; spare animals will pile up there. In this method, any approaching demons will 'bump' into the horses and cats, and then be obliterated by incredible crossbow fire. Although eventually your defending creatures may be slaughtered, this tactic can allow you to survive demon pits with ease.

*One thing you '''shouldn't''' bother trying is crushing the demons under a [[drawbridge|drawbridge]]. This used to be a highly effective (so much so that it was considered an exploit by some players) tactic, but in recent version the demon will break your bridge rather than vice-versa.

*Demons aren't susceptible to standard traps, but using a [[support]] to cause a cave-in might kill them. They may, however, be vulnerable to [[cage trap]]s if you can find [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-881-trappinghfs some technique to knock them] [[unconscious]] first. Upright steel spikes linked to a lever (on repeat) works on everything - demons, refugees, migrants, pets - if they hold still long enough to be hit, or if you spike a large enough area.

'''[[Demon]]''': The same type of demon that rules the goblin civilizations, only one of these will usually be released, leading a large number of "soldier" demons of the other three types (only one type per pit). Larger and generally tougher than the other types of demons, they can also breath fire.
{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:DEMON]
[NAME:demon:demons:demonic]
[TILE:'&'][COLOR:4:0:1]
[MODVALUE:50]
[FANCIFUL][ENDING][POWER]
[FIREBREATH][FIREIMMUNE][LIKES_FIGHTING][MAGMA_VISION]
[FLIER]
[TRAPAVOID][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK]
[GENPOWER:5]
[BLOODTYPE:0]
[BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD][EVIL]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR][NOEXERT]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:terrifying features]
[BODY:HUMANOID:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:16]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:BURN][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[EQUIPS]
[FAT:3]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10095]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:ANXIETY:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:DEPRESSION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SELF_CONSCIOUSNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:VULNERABILITY:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ASSERTIVENESS:100:100:100]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:0:0]
[SPHERE:FIRE]
[SPHERE:DEATH]
[SPHERE:TORTURE]
}}

'''[[Frog demon]]''': Arguably the easiest demon. Powerful combatant and can swim.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:FROG_DEMON]
[NAME:frog demon:frog demons:frog demon]
[TILE:'&'][COLOR:2:0:1]
[MODVALUE:20]
[FANCIFUL][DEFENDER]
[TRAPAVOID][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK][FIREIMMUNE]
[AMPHIBIOUS][UNDERSWIM]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[GENPOWER:5]
[BLOODTYPE:0]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD][EVIL]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR][NOEXERT]
[PREFSTRING:impressive bellies]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:4FINGERS:4TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:12]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[NO_GENDER]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:0:0]
[SPHERE:MUCK]
[SPHERE:WATER]
[HOMEOTHERM:10040]
}}

'''[[Tentacle_demon|Tentacle Demon]]''': Corrupt intentions.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:TENTACLE_DEMON]
[NAME:tentacle demon:tentacle demons:tentacle demon]
[TILE:'&'][COLOR:5:0:1]
[MODVALUE:20]
[FANCIFUL][DEFENDER]
[TRAPAVOID][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK][FIREIMMUNE]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[GENPOWER:5]
[BLOODTYPE:0]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD][EVIL]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR][NOEXERT]
[PREFSTRING:corrupt intentions]
[BODY:HUMANOID_SIMPLE:SIX_TENTACLES:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:12]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:RUTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:LUTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:RMTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:LMTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:RLTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:LLTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[MALE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10069]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:IMMODERATION:100:100:100]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:0:0]
[SPHERE:DEPRAVITY]
[SPHERE:THRALLDOM]
}}

'''[[Spirit_of_fire|Spirit of Fire]]''': Arguably the hardest demon. Cannot swim, launches fireballs, is surrounded by fire, a powerful combatant, and can fly. Limbs sever when broken.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:SPIRIT_OF_FIRE]
[NAME:spirit of fire:spirits of fire:spirit of fire]
[TILE:'&'][COLOR:6:0:1]
[FLIER]
[MODVALUE:20]
[FANCIFUL][DEFENDER]
[TRAPAVOID][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK]
[FIREBREATH][FIREIMMUNE][LIKES_FIGHTING][MAGMA_VISION]
[GENPOWER:5]
[BLOODTYPE:0]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE][EVIL]
[NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NOBREATHE][NOBLEED][NOSTUN][NONAUSEA][NOEMOTION][RECKLESS]
[NOSTUCKINS][SEVERONBREAKS][NOSKULL][NOSKIN][NOBONES][NOMEAT][NOTHOUGHT][NOEXERT]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR][NOEXERT]
[PREFSTRING:firey glow]
[ITEMCORPSE:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:ASH:NO_MATGLOSS]
[NOSMELLYROT]
[BODY:HUMANOID_SIMPLE]
[SIZE:11]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:6:BURN][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[NO_GENDER]
[FIXED_TEMP:25000]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:0:0]
[SPHERE:FIRE]
}}
[[Category:Creatures]][[Category:Spoilers]]

40d Talk:Demon

2009-05-29T20:58:36Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Upright spear repeating traps */ Oh Yes

{{spoiler}}

== Additions ==

If anyone has tried other defenses against Demons and they either failed or they worked then please add it to the article.

== Thoughts on Demons ==

(from the raws) It seems that all demons can swim... except for spirits of fire (the only ones without lungs, heart, brain exc)... i see spirits of fire as the most dangerous for this reason... perhaps water puts them out? tentacal and frog demons seem a bit less of a threat, due to their lack of fire breath. Also, none of the Demons are fireImmune_super... which means dragonbreath hurts them... so... demons vs dragons anyone?--[[User:Pbhead|Pbhead]] 02:04, 13 December 2007 (EST)
:I agree on spirits of fire being the most dangerous. From my experience with them they are quite vulnerable to crossbow bolts (killed a total of 16 exclusively this way). As giant cave spiders don't even try to shoot web trough fortifications I think that fortifications and marksdwarves are the way to deal with the demons. Melee champions in steel are way superior to any demons but the problem is that they are very vulnerable to fire ("bug 000001" in reported bugs) and are frequently not able to get close (even worse if there is at least 1 z-level up as spirits of fire WILL fly up). Piling spirits of fire with lots of wardogs or anything else is useless due to their firebreath attack. Don't even try to counter demons with less then 6-8 elite marksdwarves or 50-60 novice ones or an extremely long 1 tile wide corridor with a masterpiece ballista + 2 legendary siege operators + a ballista arrows stockpile. Crushing them with bridges could also work if you don't consider it a cheat and are sure that the demons won't have time to destroy the bridges as IMHO they will actively try to.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:42, 13 December 2007 (EST)

:I have a backup from a fort which has an unbreached pit and a tame dragon. My original plan was to use the dragon as part of my demon defence but when I didn't find the pit for a while I assumed I didn't have one so moved the dragon elsewhere. When I eventually did find the pit I was able to fight off the demons (frog demons, thankfully) with my champions and only lost a few children who were hanging around the mine when I opened the pit. I'm going to reload that backup now and pit dragon vs demon in a contest of strength. --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 06:35, 10 February 2009 (EST)

:Results: The dragon managed to take down about 6 frog demons with a combination of dragonbreath and brute strength but was eventually overcome and strangled to death (can demons strangle? he bled to death from a mangled throat which to me indicated strangling). I imagine that had I used the dragon first time round he would have been a dwarf-burning liability. --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 06:51, 10 February 2009 (EST)

== Possible defences? ==

when i breach my pit, (eventually) i hope to be able to A: seal it off quickly without losing too much admantine. B if that fails, have a large "dwarven toliet" (a artificial river with a large water fall...) if i am lucky, the water will be fast enough to sweep even the non-spirits of fire down the waterfall... where they will hopefully go *splat*. IF that fails... i plan to have a LOONG corridor, with fortifications on either side, and leet archers behind the fortifications and at the end of the tunnel, seige weapons, and spear masters hidden behind blind spots. and if that fails, hopefully by then i will have sealed my mines off from the main fortress. --[[User:Pbhead|Pbhead]] 02:04, 13 December 2007 (EST)

== Spoiler warning? ==
We should probably have a spoiler warning for this page, especially for the picture of the pits. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 10:05, 1 January 2008 (EST)
:Agreed and added --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:16, 16 January 2008 (EST)

== Upright spear repeating traps ==
I assume these work and are effective, I was wondering if this was considered too cheap to use or was known to be ineffectual (maybe they destroy them before they walk into them, as they are buildings).

This is my first demon attack since df-23a, and I've been preparing multiple types of active defense in different layers, (ballistas on z-8, spears on z-7, pit with fortifications and 18 elite/champion marks-dwarves on z-5/6/4 [with 3 open z-levels to see how they deal with spirits of fire], 7 mace dwarves and 7 sword-dwarves with 62 war dogs for lulz if they get to z-3 and re-walling at z-2) so it'll be a learning experience. My last successful demon defense hinged on a drawbridge...wasn't as fun as this should be.

The spoiler is there for the eerily glowing pits, so I think once more people post success/defeats on the demon page, or specific demon information, such as the different types and abilities, the spoiler should be here as well.
:Spoiler Warning added --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:16, 16 January 2008 (EST)

Just had my encounter with 20+ tentacle demons and 1 Spirit of Fire. 4 civilian casualties, '''no''' military casualties. And I got a movie of it. Here's what worked for me, in reverse order:

1. '''Steel-plated Champions''', about ten. These guys took their wrestling classes for five years before switching to actual weapons, and have occasionally been let loose on straggling goblins. I had prepared a bottleneck the moment I struck Adamantine, and when hell broke loose (heh) 6 different squads were stationed in the antechamber, crossbow-dwarves at the back ready to fire into the melee. Not every squad showed up. When the tentacle-demons broke down the final door, they were pinned, stabbed, shot, and speared. Only one got a square further than the bottleneck. (My veteran got 5 kills with an iron sword and a maple shield.) And first they had to make it through...

2. '''Six successive steel spikes''', on repeating mechanisms. Only five of these were operational in time but in a stroke of luck they took out the Spirit of Fire before he reached the dwarves. The Duke Consort working the lever may have killed one-third or even half of the demons. Once they're wounded or stunned, they can't move quickly out of the way of the next spike, so a stun is nearly always a kill.
It also helped that the demons were slowed down by...

3. '''Spamming them with cows.''' Livestock overpopulation getting you down? 20-odd cows suddenly released from a single cage into a narrow hallway don't put up much of a fight, but they definitely slowed down the demons and provided useful recon before being turned into hamburger. They were actually released by a melancholy elf stepping on the pressure plate early.

What I forgot to do, until the mounting casualties reminded me, was to send the triumphant military down into the chamber itself and secure the area. But still, pretty good. Anyone want to buy a dozen caged babbling elves? --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 20:58, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

== Cage Traps==
has any one caught a demon in a cage trap? if you could catch them that would be the easest way to deal with them. --[[Rock n rat]]
: I'm afraid demons are immune to cage, weapon, and stone-fall traps, although they will trigger pressure plates and the like. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 14:00, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
: when i diged to chamber i tried to catch imprisoners and built a lot of cagetraps. After a battle i realised some of them was full of tentacle demons. 0.28.181.40d [[Media:tentacle_caged.jpg]] --[[User:Desperado|Desperado]]

== The Little Brother ==
I have added my favorite anti-demon tactic; massed archers on a single tile, to the wiki. It works reliably for me. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 14:00, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== Ruling Demons ==

Anyone know what makes demons rule goblins? Hardcoded, maybe? --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 21:42, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:It's the goblin entity's [RELIGION:ANY_APPROPRIATE_POWER] tag in conjunction with the demon creature entry's [POWER] tag. Nothing else has either of those, and when I gave the former to another entity, they had demon rulers, too. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 13:04, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Demons Spawning outside of Pits ==

So, I found the 'Strange Chamber' awhile ago, and quickly sealed it off before any demons spawned on me. However, I just got a "Horrors..." message and have a demon breathing fire at my poor strand extractor. There's still no breach into the pits through which it could have escaped. Do demons spawn in excavated areas on maps with the Pits feature? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:12, 3 December 2008 (EST)

:You weren't fast enough in sealing it off. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:58, 3 December 2008 (EST)

::You are not omniscient. Creatures can hide from you. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:55, 3 December 2008 (EST)

:::First of all, the miner that breached the pits sealed it himself, immediately. I'd believe monsters can hide from me, I can't believe they could move *though* the dwarf (putting a floor over a down staircase) while he was sealing it and remain unnoticed.

:::Second, I breached the pits *years* ago. Like 4 or 5. I've been actively mining and extracting strands in the area that entire time. I find it hard to believe that the demon stayed hidden that long in a high-activity area.

:::I have confirmed the pits are sealed, and I know the miner who breached it immediately picked up a stone and sealed it because I turned off all his other labors, enabled masonry, and built a floor with the piece of material sitting on it, and watched him do it.

:::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 04:01, 4 December 2008 (EST)

== Fireball and firebreath against fortification ==
A fireball can go through a fortification, what about a firebreath?<small>– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Kami|Kami]]</small>

Most likely, though I'm sure someone here knows for sure. [[User:Richards|Richards]] 11:35, 10 February 2009 (EST)

40d:Adamantine

2009-05-22T19:14:06Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Processing */ 1:1:1

{{minorspoiler}}
{{Metal|color=#0FF|bgcolor=#0CC|name=Adamantine|
|ore=
* [[Raw adamantine]]
|properties=
* [[Damage]]% 500
* [[Armor|Block]]% 500
* [[Material value]] 300
|uses=
* [[Weapon|Melee Weapons]]
* [[Crossbow]]s
* [[Bolt]]s
* [[Pick]]s
* [[Armor]]
* [[Anvil]]s
* [[Metalsmith's forge|Metal crafting]]
* [[Clothing]]
}}

'''Adamantine''' is by far the most rare and valuable [[metal]] in the game. It can only be found in mountainous areas, and only in small amounts. Care should be taken if it is found, since digging down several levels through it will lead you to a [[Glowing pit|spoiler]], which can wipe out even a mature, heavily defended fortress.

Discovery of adamantine will also bring the attention of the [[King]], who will immigrate to your fortress once news of your discovery reaches him. If you have not otherwise met the criteria for attracting the King, he will arrive "disguised as a peasant." His requirements appears to be the same in any case, so be prepared!

== Location ==

To start in a location which has adamantine (and the accompanying demon pits), you must start on a mountain tile ({{Raw Tile|∆|#FFFFFF|#000000}},{{Raw Tile|∆|#808080|#000000}},{{Raw Tile|▲|#FFFFFF|#000000}},{{Raw Tile|▲|#C0C0C0|#000000}},{{Raw Tile|▲|#808080|#000000}},{{Raw Tile|▲|#00FFFF|#000000}},{{Raw Tile|^|#FFFFFF|#000000}},{{Raw Tile|^|#808080|#000000}},{{Raw Tile|^|#00FFFF|#000000}}) or volcano tile ({{Raw Tile|^|#FF0000|#000000}}) in the Region map. The adamantine and pits will be located somewhere within the Local map of that region. It is more likely to be found on a Local map square which also shows as mountain. The adamantine will occupy only one Local square, though the demon pits may extend beyond it.

Deposits are not visible on the Region/World maps or the Local maps by default, but can be turned visible by setting SHOW_EMBARK_OTHER to ALWAYS in init.txt, in which case they appear as {{tile|£|#0FF}} on the local embark map.

==Veining==
Curiously, adamantine veins tend to span z-levels more than the xy planes. Finding a short section of adamantine only 2x1 or 3x1, dig up or down a z-level and you'll probably find another short section.
To view examples of this phenomenon, check out the [http://mkv25.net/dfma/poi-2837-addyveinstotallyz-spanning DFMA Point of Interest] and [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-290-z-leveladamantinevein a movie] recording the layout of a vein.

== Processing ==

Adamantine strands are extracted from [[raw adamantine]] at a [[craftsdwarf's workshop]]. The [[strand extraction]] labor must be enabled for a dwarf to perform the extraction. The process is extremely slow for an unskilled laborer. Adamantine strands are worth 1800☼ each, while the raw adamantine is worth 750. 1 ore => 1 strand => 1 wafer.

Subsequent processing of the strands requires no adamantine-specific skills or labor permissions. Adamantine strands are processed into adamantine wafers at any [[smelter]]. Adamantine wafers are worth 1500☼ each - curiously, less than the strands they are smelted from. Adamantine wafers are treated much like [[bar]]s of other metal, and can be forged into a variety of useful items. Adamantine strands may also be woven into cloth using the Weave Metal Cloth task in a [[loom]]. Adamantine strands may be dyed, but if they are melted into wafers the they will return to their normal color and value.

Forging things out of adamantine requires a number of wafers equal to item's MATERIAL_SIZE. This is usually about three times as many as are needed for constructions with bars of other metals, since one metal bar counts for 3 MATERIAL_SIZE. For instance, plate mail has [MATERIAL_SIZE:9] and normally requires three metal bars to forge; adamantine plate mail requires nine adamantine wafers. Helm has [MATERIAL_SIZE:2] and normally requires one metal bar to forge; adamantine helm requires two adamantine wafers. Large furniture takes 9 full wafers and small furniture (buckets, chains) takes 3 full wafers (compare to 3 bars and 1 bar respectively for other metals). Miscellaneous craft items are only 1 wafer, and you still get a full set of 3 goblets. This makes goblets far and away the best option if you want to maximize your adamantine wealth, even moreso than in other materials.

Note that if you try to melt down adamantine objects, you recover wafers at the same rate that you would normally recover bars, so trying to melt down lower-quality adamantine items to reforge them gets prohibitively expensive in a hurry--adamantine plate mail takes 9 wafers to forge and yields slightly less than a single wafer when melted for scrap.

==Uses==
Adamantine is so valuable that a special message pops up when you discover a vein of it.

[[Image:000006 - Praise the miners!.png||500px]]

Raw adamantine may also be processed into [[stone]] goods in the same way as other economic stone. In its raw form, it has a [[Item value|value multiplier]] of x250 (as opposed to adamantine metal, which is x300). Raw adamantine blocks are worth 1250☼.

Adamantine items are incredibly light: they weigh about 2.5% as much as an equivalent article crafted from iron. [[Weapon]]s and [[armor]] made from adamantine are 5 times stronger than equivalent [[iron]] objects.

Adamantine is one of the few [[magma-safe]] materials. Raw adamantine is the only [[stone]], aside from [[bauxite]], that can be used to make magma-safe [[mechanism]]s. (To do this, you must lift the [[economic stone|restrictions]] on its use via the Stone submenu of the [[status]] screen.) Mechanisms can also be made from a single{{verify}} adamantine wafer at a [[forge]] or [[magma forge]], under "trap components" -- this cannot be done with any other metal.

==Storage==
Raw Adamantine is stored in stone stockpiles with "Raw Adamantine" enabled in that stockpile's 'other stone' category.

However once strands are extracted, they are stored in a cloth pile. It is unfortunately impossible to directly segregate adamantine from plant fiber and silk cloth, because all cloth apparently counts as non-plant/animal products as far as the game is concerned, and adamantine does not appear as a thread/cloth type in the cloth custom stockpile menu. To create a stockpile for adamantine strands designate a cloth stockpile set to accept no types of thread or cloth and tell this stockpile to take from all other cloth stockpiles.

Wafers are stored in bar/block piles with adamantine enabled. All other goods can be stored in any stockpile with the adamantine metal enabled.

[[Category:Metals]]
[[Category:Economic Stone]]
[[Category:Spoilers]]

40d Talk:Chalk

2009-05-21T09:08:36Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Page 1 of my penance */ not sure we need this

Am I the only one who finds it weird to make things out of chalk? --[[User:Blakyoshi7|Blakyoshi7]] 00:42, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

:Aye. Ye are, lad. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

::It would be funny if they could make chalk engravings on a blackboard. Then they could use it to teach dwarves! --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:11, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Until the engravers decide to start engraving melting dwarves. On second thought, maybe the kids should learn some history. Of the [[Boatmurdered]] variety. Those kids won't sleep for weeks. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 16:27, 13 January 2009 (EST)

== Page 1 of my penance ==

I know there's a lot of data on the new Chalk page that can be found other places. I mostly just cut and pasted from the full listings, deleting what wasn't relavent. I am happy to use this format and level of detail for all of the other stones, (one or two a day) if someone will simply say "Good job, Jaz. Do it again." ... On the other hand, if you think it's too cluttered, or whatever, then... It's easy enough to put it back the way it was. Even if you don't say "Do it again, Jaz." I am likely to do another few stones tomorrow... uh, later today. After I sleep. Sleep first, other stone pages after...

I do find one thing lacking in the new page. There is no humor. That is because I, sadly, am humor impared.

If there is something I did wrong, (like missing an entry or putting one in that doesn't belong) let me know, I will do my best to fix it. Assuming you didn't do it already, in which case, let me know anyways. I like to know what I need to keep an eye out for in the future. If the wrong thing was doing this page at all in the first place, a simple "Stop, Jaz, we don't like it" will suffice.

And yes, I know, I talk too much. --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 07:38, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:I can't quickly see what makes chalk different from a dozen other stones - I'll read the groupings on the "Stone" page for that. So I don't think it needs its own page. Precious/semi-precious/flux/coloured-but-useless - that's all I need to know until Toady tweaks the stone announcements. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 09:08, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Water

2009-05-15T19:15:49Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* underground water manipulation */

I dug into a Murky pool, all 7's, drained out 8 squares of 7's into my reservoir to irrigate my farm, then closed the floodgate up. The murky pool was mixed 6's and 7's. After winter, it froze over, and in Spring melted back into all 7's again. Apparently they can refill themselves. It did snow on top of the pool. Perhaps the snow melted and got it wet? --[[User:Tracker|Tracker]] 20:36, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:As far as I know, if there's any water in the pool then they will freeze into ice walls. When the ice wall melts, it will always melt to depth 7, irrespective of how much water the ice was originally formed from. It is unaffected by snowfall, so if your murky pool ever completely dries out, it will never refill, even if you get lots of rain or snow. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

Do fish really flop around after you drain a pool? This didn't happen for me. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:08, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Does anyone know what the water output of a brook is? As in, does it fill a 1-width channel any faster or slower than a river?--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:29, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Has anyone else seen stagnant water spontaneously appear beside a still? I had it happen twice, I swear that the still is leaking. --[[User:Krenn|Krenn]] 02:58, 14 November 2007 (EST)
:Likely, a dwarf for some reason dumped out a bucket or waterskin nearby. It tends to happen when you get job cancellations while filling a well or taking water to a prisoner or injured dwarf.--[[User:Knivesu|Knivesu]] 06:58, 3 December 2007 (EST)

== Evaporation ==

I notice that evaporation isn't covered here or in [[Magma]], and I think it might be a useful topic. My observation is that depth 1 fluids can evaporate if left alone. This means that you can get rid of arbitrary amounts of fluid simply by spreading it out enough, or by using a multiple-floodgate lock system to meter measured quantities of fluid out over a chamber floor. In my experience, evaporated water leaves behind mud, whereas evaporated magma leaves behind nothing. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:45, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

:Magma... evaporates? Could be true – this is DF, after all. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:38, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

While your at it you can create that soap fortress page.--[[User:Warlordzephyr|Warlordzephyr]] 17:40, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

== Bend bugs ==

Should we add a section about the u-bend bug?

I've just managed to make a V-bend that can absorb infinite water as well as the U-bend that creates it. Basically I used ramps to create a dip in a pipe trying to make a u-bend, and when I poured a full murky pool into it I ended up with only the bottom three squares full of water. I then got a real u-bend going from another pond and as much as it poured into a pool the v-bend absorbed it all.

Can anyone reproduce? <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] ([[User talk:Ikkonoishi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ikkonoishi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small>

The u-bend is notorious, but never heard or ran into a "v-bend" before.
A (side) diagram of your v-bend would be helpful in reproducing.
As for pages, I'd say no, since they shouldn't end up being around a long time, but who knows. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:13, 1 February 2008 (EST)
: I was going to do one but couldn't figure out how to make the ramps. I'll just use \.

Water went in. --> ~.~########
~.~.~### <--- No water out
####\~# /##
#####\~/###
###########

Even when I brought infinite water from a normal u-bend two levels above it it would not flow through to fill the pond again until I capped the holes. Using periods to break up the ~ so I don't have to use nowiki tags. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 18:58, 1 February 2008 (EST)

The map http://mkv25.net/dfma/poi-3138-emptypool --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 19:02, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Stagnant Water ==

What marks water as stagnant? I know bucket water dumped on the ground is sometimes stagnant, but it's not defined here and I'm not sure what does it.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 13:30, 29 May 2008 (EDT)
:Ice that melts becomes stagnant water. So if you mine out ice in an underground area, it will immediately melt into stagnant water. [[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 13:56, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

::But I've had water in a bucket turn Stagnant. What is your responce Poindexter?! [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 16:32, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

: Water that ain't in a river or brook ain't moving and is therefore stagnant. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 19:11, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

== Map limits ==

Does water fall off the edge of the map ? Is it possible to actually make it flow out the map like rivers do ? Is it possible underground, several z-levels below he surface ? --[[User:Cptnemo01|Cptnemo01]] 03:51, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

: I would think so, but bear in mind that you can not construct or dig near the edge of the map, making it impossible to channel out water (however, you could make a big surface delta). --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 08:07, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Water doesn't technically flow off the edge of the map, i dropped a few zombies into a brook and they floated downstream, the result was about 20 zombies stuck at the bottom of the map and a whole load of miasma.--[[User:Warlordzephyr|Warlordzephyr]] 17:47, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

== underground water manipulation ==

I am utterly lost when it comes to making underground channels/resovuoirs/wells or any other aquatic contraption beneath the earth. I've looked through both the wiki and the bay12 forums and all I've found are specialized articles for people who already know the basics. so can someone point me in the right direction? or even make a faq, if you're bored? I'd appreciate it.
--[[User:Splendiferous|Splendiferous]] 04:54, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

:Perhaps you have something a little more specific? Asking for all three is rather big and vague. --[[User:Borninshadow|borninshadow]] 22:32, 19 August 2008 (GMT -8)

:Umm - Dig a channel (d,u) and a ramp side by side into the earth. Move down one level and repeat. You now have a well shaft, and a service ramp. Allow the dwarf to leave, via the ramp, then pump or channel water into the hole. You now have a hole full of water, upon which you can build a well. Making the hole different shapes and sizes is left as an exercise to the miners. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 19:15, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

== Finding Water ==

If there is no water visible on the map, how can I track it down? There's a small glacier away from my mountain, but I don't see an easy way to melt it. Other than that, nothing shows up on the map underground. --[[User:Aegeus | Aegeus]] (21:09, 20 September 2008)

: I'll take a guess and say [[exploratory mining]] is the only way to go. Only one that I know of at least. --[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 23:19, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

== Wrong Information on Page? ==

The salt water section states:

"If a site contains saltwater (there will be a warning before embarkation), then all the naturally occurring water in that site will be salt water; including ponds, rivers and aquifers."

However, I have made wells from aquifers before on a map that was 1/4 tropical ocean and my dwarves drank from it. I think this information might be wrong. (Edit: I did not use a pump at all. I just channeled out above an aquifer and let the area below fill up, and then created wells over top of it). <small>– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]</small>

:According to a [[Talk:Well#Salt_Water|comment]] on the [[well]] [[Talk:Well|talk page]], it may in fact be the well that somehow manages to desalinate the water! Check to see if a zone drawn over the aquifier can be marked as a water source. If not, then this is most certainly a feature of wells which should be noted! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 16:28, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

== Salt Water and mud ==
I've discovered that desalinated water will become salt water once again if used on muddy constructed floors.

I constructed a cistern/aqueduct with no natural tiles exposed; however, in my temporary ignorance I had forgotten pumps attempt to fill to the same z-level. Resulted in a large flood; luckily I was using lakes/ponds and not a brook or river.

After waiting for 3 seasons for the single bits of 1/7 water to evaporate (already pumped it back out, couldn't pump it all out) leaving the entire construction muddy. I figured it would be a good time to test something else.
#Does mud influence freshwater on salt water embark sites? '''Yes'''.
#Does rain influence freshwater on salt water embark sites? Unsure.
After answering the first, I'm going to confirm the well desalination issue next. [[http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Talk:Well#Salt_Water]]--[[User:DracoG|DracoG]] 10:38, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

:After finally getting my cloth industry going to make rope, a well ''DOES'' act as a freshwater source. It doesn't change the water source underneath (it might if well uses 1x1 water?) to freshwater, so I'm not sure if this is intentional or a bug. Looked over the [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html bug list] and didn't notice anything other than "# 001026 □ [dwarf mode][buildings] (Report) well buckets do not use low water in a square even if there is more water below".

:Verifying this is easy enough; build a well then mark a zone (before and after well completion) and "Water Source (0)" will remain the same. Also, even with Standing Orders of "Zone-Only Drinking", dwarves will still use the well for drinking/pond/etc purposes regardless if it is marked with a zone.

:I made sure to take a quick screenshot, if needed.--[[User:DracoG|DracoG]] 00:38, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== Jesus Brooks ==

I think that humanoids shouldn't be allowed to walk over brooks, this was underlined to me when i saw the fisherdwarf asleep on the open space above the brook. {{unsigned|Warlordzephyr}}

:First off, sign your comments please. Secondly, and I don't mean to sound like an annoying Wiki bureaucrat, opinions about how something should or shouldn't be don't really belong on the talk page; you'd get a better response over at the Bay 12 forums. Nonetheless, I will address your point.
:The way brooks are now is just a simple way to represent shallow running water that shouldn't block movement. A more realistic rendering would be to make the brook a small depression with ramps on both sides, and the bottom filled with depth 2 water, but for now, this is what we've got. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 22:32, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

=Stockpiling water?=

My dwarfs like to carry water to food stockpiles. This only happens when I have given them a command to fill a pond (note that the said pond is on the other end of the map and on a different z-level from the stockpiles and that the stockpile is not in between the water sources and the pond). At first I thought it had something to do with fish so I disabled all meat and fish from the stockpiles and the little dwarfs kept on dumping water in the stockpiles. Does anyone know how to stop this or why it happens? [[User:L337chica|L337chica]] 01:28, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
:A wiki is not a Q&A - you'd get better feedback on the forums.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:40, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Water

2009-05-15T19:11:26Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Stagnant Water */

I dug into a Murky pool, all 7's, drained out 8 squares of 7's into my reservoir to irrigate my farm, then closed the floodgate up. The murky pool was mixed 6's and 7's. After winter, it froze over, and in Spring melted back into all 7's again. Apparently they can refill themselves. It did snow on top of the pool. Perhaps the snow melted and got it wet? --[[User:Tracker|Tracker]] 20:36, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
:As far as I know, if there's any water in the pool then they will freeze into ice walls. When the ice wall melts, it will always melt to depth 7, irrespective of how much water the ice was originally formed from. It is unaffected by snowfall, so if your murky pool ever completely dries out, it will never refill, even if you get lots of rain or snow. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

Do fish really flop around after you drain a pool? This didn't happen for me. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:08, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Does anyone know what the water output of a brook is? As in, does it fill a 1-width channel any faster or slower than a river?--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:29, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Has anyone else seen stagnant water spontaneously appear beside a still? I had it happen twice, I swear that the still is leaking. --[[User:Krenn|Krenn]] 02:58, 14 November 2007 (EST)
:Likely, a dwarf for some reason dumped out a bucket or waterskin nearby. It tends to happen when you get job cancellations while filling a well or taking water to a prisoner or injured dwarf.--[[User:Knivesu|Knivesu]] 06:58, 3 December 2007 (EST)

== Evaporation ==

I notice that evaporation isn't covered here or in [[Magma]], and I think it might be a useful topic. My observation is that depth 1 fluids can evaporate if left alone. This means that you can get rid of arbitrary amounts of fluid simply by spreading it out enough, or by using a multiple-floodgate lock system to meter measured quantities of fluid out over a chamber floor. In my experience, evaporated water leaves behind mud, whereas evaporated magma leaves behind nothing. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:45, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

:Magma... evaporates? Could be true – this is DF, after all. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:38, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

While your at it you can create that soap fortress page.--[[User:Warlordzephyr|Warlordzephyr]] 17:40, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

== Bend bugs ==

Should we add a section about the u-bend bug?

I've just managed to make a V-bend that can absorb infinite water as well as the U-bend that creates it. Basically I used ramps to create a dip in a pipe trying to make a u-bend, and when I poured a full murky pool into it I ended up with only the bottom three squares full of water. I then got a real u-bend going from another pond and as much as it poured into a pool the v-bend absorbed it all.

Can anyone reproduce? <small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] ([[User talk:Ikkonoishi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Ikkonoishi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small>

The u-bend is notorious, but never heard or ran into a "v-bend" before.
A (side) diagram of your v-bend would be helpful in reproducing.
As for pages, I'd say no, since they shouldn't end up being around a long time, but who knows. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:13, 1 February 2008 (EST)
: I was going to do one but couldn't figure out how to make the ramps. I'll just use \.

Water went in. --> ~.~########
~.~.~### <--- No water out
####\~# /##
#####\~/###
###########

Even when I brought infinite water from a normal u-bend two levels above it it would not flow through to fill the pond again until I capped the holes. Using periods to break up the ~ so I don't have to use nowiki tags. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 18:58, 1 February 2008 (EST)

The map http://mkv25.net/dfma/poi-3138-emptypool --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 19:02, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Stagnant Water ==

What marks water as stagnant? I know bucket water dumped on the ground is sometimes stagnant, but it's not defined here and I'm not sure what does it.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 13:30, 29 May 2008 (EDT)
:Ice that melts becomes stagnant water. So if you mine out ice in an underground area, it will immediately melt into stagnant water. [[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 13:56, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

::But I've had water in a bucket turn Stagnant. What is your responce Poindexter?! [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 16:32, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

: Water that ain't in a river or brook ain't moving and is therefore stagnant. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 19:11, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

== Map limits ==

Does water fall off the edge of the map ? Is it possible to actually make it flow out the map like rivers do ? Is it possible underground, several z-levels below he surface ? --[[User:Cptnemo01|Cptnemo01]] 03:51, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

: I would think so, but bear in mind that you can not construct or dig near the edge of the map, making it impossible to channel out water (however, you could make a big surface delta). --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 08:07, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Water doesn't technically flow off the edge of the map, i dropped a few zombies into a brook and they floated downstream, the result was about 20 zombies stuck at the bottom of the map and a whole load of miasma.--[[User:Warlordzephyr|Warlordzephyr]] 17:47, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

== underground water manipulation ==

I am utterly lost when it comes to making underground channels/resovuoirs/wells or any other aquatic contraption beneath the earth. I've looked through both the wiki and the bay12 forums and all I've found are specialized articles for people who already know the basics. so can someone point me in the right direction? or even make a faq, if you're bored? I'd appreciate it.
--[[User:Splendiferous|Splendiferous]] 04:54, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

:Perhaps you have something a little more specific? Asking for all three is rather big and vague. --[[User:Borninshadow|borninshadow]] 22:32, 19 August 2008 (GMT -8)

== Finding Water ==

If there is no water visible on the map, how can I track it down? There's a small glacier away from my mountain, but I don't see an easy way to melt it. Other than that, nothing shows up on the map underground. --[[User:Aegeus | Aegeus]] (21:09, 20 September 2008)

: I'll take a guess and say [[exploratory mining]] is the only way to go. Only one that I know of at least. --[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 23:19, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

== Wrong Information on Page? ==

The salt water section states:

"If a site contains saltwater (there will be a warning before embarkation), then all the naturally occurring water in that site will be salt water; including ponds, rivers and aquifers."

However, I have made wells from aquifers before on a map that was 1/4 tropical ocean and my dwarves drank from it. I think this information might be wrong. (Edit: I did not use a pump at all. I just channeled out above an aquifer and let the area below fill up, and then created wells over top of it). <small>– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]</small>

:According to a [[Talk:Well#Salt_Water|comment]] on the [[well]] [[Talk:Well|talk page]], it may in fact be the well that somehow manages to desalinate the water! Check to see if a zone drawn over the aquifier can be marked as a water source. If not, then this is most certainly a feature of wells which should be noted! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 16:28, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

== Salt Water and mud ==
I've discovered that desalinated water will become salt water once again if used on muddy constructed floors.

I constructed a cistern/aqueduct with no natural tiles exposed; however, in my temporary ignorance I had forgotten pumps attempt to fill to the same z-level. Resulted in a large flood; luckily I was using lakes/ponds and not a brook or river.

After waiting for 3 seasons for the single bits of 1/7 water to evaporate (already pumped it back out, couldn't pump it all out) leaving the entire construction muddy. I figured it would be a good time to test something else.
#Does mud influence freshwater on salt water embark sites? '''Yes'''.
#Does rain influence freshwater on salt water embark sites? Unsure.
After answering the first, I'm going to confirm the well desalination issue next. [[http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Talk:Well#Salt_Water]]--[[User:DracoG|DracoG]] 10:38, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

:After finally getting my cloth industry going to make rope, a well ''DOES'' act as a freshwater source. It doesn't change the water source underneath (it might if well uses 1x1 water?) to freshwater, so I'm not sure if this is intentional or a bug. Looked over the [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html bug list] and didn't notice anything other than "# 001026 □ [dwarf mode][buildings] (Report) well buckets do not use low water in a square even if there is more water below".

:Verifying this is easy enough; build a well then mark a zone (before and after well completion) and "Water Source (0)" will remain the same. Also, even with Standing Orders of "Zone-Only Drinking", dwarves will still use the well for drinking/pond/etc purposes regardless if it is marked with a zone.

:I made sure to take a quick screenshot, if needed.--[[User:DracoG|DracoG]] 00:38, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== Jesus Brooks ==

I think that humanoids shouldn't be allowed to walk over brooks, this was underlined to me when i saw the fisherdwarf asleep on the open space above the brook. {{unsigned|Warlordzephyr}}

:First off, sign your comments please. Secondly, and I don't mean to sound like an annoying Wiki bureaucrat, opinions about how something should or shouldn't be don't really belong on the talk page; you'd get a better response over at the Bay 12 forums. Nonetheless, I will address your point.
:The way brooks are now is just a simple way to represent shallow running water that shouldn't block movement. A more realistic rendering would be to make the brook a small depression with ramps on both sides, and the bottom filled with depth 2 water, but for now, this is what we've got. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 22:32, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

=Stockpiling water?=

My dwarfs like to carry water to food stockpiles. This only happens when I have given them a command to fill a pond (note that the said pond is on the other end of the map and on a different z-level from the stockpiles and that the stockpile is not in between the water sources and the pond). At first I thought it had something to do with fish so I disabled all meat and fish from the stockpiles and the little dwarfs kept on dumping water in the stockpiles. Does anyone know how to stop this or why it happens? [[User:L337chica|L337chica]] 01:28, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
:A wiki is not a Q&A - you'd get better feedback on the forums.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:40, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Standing orders

2009-05-11T21:48:55Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Soldiers and Children wandering outside */

<blockquote>
* {{K|m}} toggles whether different types of food should be mixed when [[cook|cooking]]
</blockquote>
I do not think the toggle affects ingredients while cooking, but whether different foods are mixed in barrels on the stockpile. Toggled on would mean a Plant Barrel could contain Plump Helmets, and Dimple Cups, and other plants together. Toggled off would mean the Barrels are restricted to a certain food. Instead of a Plant Barrel, it would be a Plump Helmet Barrel and a Dimple Cup Barrel.--[[User:Yggiz|Yggiz]] 04:08, 28 January 2008 (EST)
:"By default, dwarves will put all meats in a "meat barrel" and all plants in a "plant barrel", for example. If you'd like them to separate foods out more specifically, you can do that here." - that's from manual.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:28, 28 January 2008 (EST)

==Dwarves All Harvest/Only Farmers Harvest==
1) Why isn't this option mentioned in the article?

2) Does turning "Only farmers harvest" on mean children will stop harvesting too? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 04:29, 5 May 2008 (EDT)
:I don't know why it's not mentioned, but I'm sure children (and nobles) will stop harvesting if you turn it on. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 07:47, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

== Soldiers and Children wandering outside ==

I set the "Dwarves stay inside" order on, and my soldiers and children won't stay in, i was trying to lock it after they went in, but on would always stay outside... anyone know if this is a bug or something? I looked in the known bugs and issues, but i could only find "added short distance search for stay inside order"..
any ideas with this? [[User:Wizjany|Wizjany]] 21:44, 10 October 2008 (EDT)
:I just noticed something like this. I'd opened my "traders' back door" and locked the traders' air lock (to keep siege goblins out) to let them in and Ordered all my dwarves to stay inside to avoid the sieging goblins coming at the other side of the fortress (where the front door is). Some kids and other dwarves still went outside. They all had "Bring Item to Depot" or another item-moving task active and were going out the front door (right into the goblins) and trying to walk around the fortress to the back door. My guess is that if the destination is Subterranean (which my Depot is) the path won't register as going through a "forbidden" area, and dwarves will use that path despite a Stay Inside order. [[User:Bitbender|Bitbender]] 05:12, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
::I believe that the dwarves do not check for outside while pathing. They only check while they are moving. They can and will do a strange entrance dance when they realize that they shouldn't be outside, turn around, job check, oh look a shiny, oh no i'm outside, turn around, job check, ... --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 14:32, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
:::There was no entrance dance in this case: they just went straight for the great, goblin-infested outdoors. I think you're right that they don't check while pathing, but I think it's more complicated than just "am I outdoors". There's probably some code that lets them path through the outside so long as their destination is inside, otherwise they'd have problems coming in from the outdoors when the Stay Inside order is given. [[User:Bitbender|Bitbender]] 19:01, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I was caught out by "inside" actually meaning "underground" in this version. After me spending years building a roof over my trade depot/ballistae, nobody shows up to fire them at the goblin hordes. The dogs and cats did a fine job, but next fortress I'm just building more lockable doors. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 21:48, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

== Traders and Orders ==
I had my first goblin ambush today! Things went almost exactly as planned, with my Hall Of Death eating half of them before the rest fled, but I noticed something weird: When I ordered everyone inside, the elven traders left the depot and went too! Were they actually following dwarven orders, or were they just taking cover of their own account? [[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 13:35, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

:During my most recent siege, the elves all clustered at the back of my depot cavern, so it looks like they try to run away of their own accord. The goblins were quite nearby at the time, though, so it may have been the proximity of the goblins, not the fact of the siege that got them on the run.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:46, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Ocean

2009-04-30T21:34:35Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Dwarven desalination pump info needs retesting? */ comment

Has anybody had any luck getting dwarves to use an artificial fishing pier? I tried building walls in a straight line out into the ocean as far as I could, and then building floors off of that, but I don't think the dwarves can catch any larger fish (probably no whaling). --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 00:50, 12 November 2007 (EST)
:You can just make a bridge out and that works fine as well as a pier. But the dwarves use the closest square in the zone to fish, keep mind of that.

== Water Source ==

Is all water considered saltwater when I set my fortress near an Ocean? How can I find freshwater? The aquifer seems to be undrinkable. <small>– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:KazUser|KazUser]]</small>
:Please remember to sign your talk page comments with <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>. Also, all water (except water coverings) is saltwater when you're near an ocean. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 14:16, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Waves ==

What exactly does an ocean wave do? can dwarves drown in it? anything else i should know about it? --[[User:Wizjany|Wizjany]] 16:33, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

If it goes downwards (i.e. Ramp/Stairs) it will flood your fort! Apart from that it does not do anything to your dorfs --[[User:Pure W|Pure W]] 11:57, 23 December 2008 (EST)

== Water Pump Exploit ==

Someone slapped the 'verify' tag put on my claim that pumps turning saltwater into freshwater is an exploit without putting anything in the talk page. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]]

For verification I refer you to the very definition of exploit: "An exploit is a quirk of a game that allows players to gain what other players may consider an unfair advantage, usually by making use of a feature that is not working properly or which defies logic."

:Maybe just tweaking the wording to "this might be considered an exploit" would address the issue. That would switch the meaning to "this might be a cheat" from "this might be logic-defying", which, clearly it is.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:57, 2 November 2008 (EST)
::Done. Let's see if they think it's enough. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 23:28, 2 November 2008 (EST)

:::I did it because I seriously doubted its possibility. Simply reverting it would have been good enough for me. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:49, 19 November 2008 (EST)

== Water pump purifier and snow. ==

I embarked on a snowy ocean side where there was quite a few blizzards.
<br />
It seems like any tile snow has fallen onto water will return to salt, so build a roof over any tile where water will be before you build the floor or you have to tear up the floor and redo it to get rid of the snow.
<br />
Just a heads up to anyone wanting to move into a snowy ocean. --[[User:Katieness|Katieness]] 16:30, 16 February 2009 (EST)

:That has the makings of an epic fortress [[User:Revan|Revan]] 16:53, 16 February 2009 (EST)

== Dwarven desalination pump info needs retesting? ==

Has anybody tested the information about saltwater-->freshwater cisterns needing to be totally "artificial" in the newest version (40d)? I just played around with it on an oceanside map, and pumped into a reservoir with constructed walls and a constructed roof, but a "natural" white sand floor. Built a well through the top of the roof, and lo and behold it's drinkable. The only thing I can think of is that I did use a small handful of green glass floor tiles right where the water comes out of the pump. But the vast majority of the cistern is floored with natural sand tiles, and the wellhead is over top of one of those. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 20:39, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

:My well worked perfectly with just a simple tunnel that was filled from ocean with pump and emptied back to the beach, no constructions besides pump and windmill. [[User:Fordus|Fordus]]
:Notably, you can't use an existing lake (or dry lakebed?) as your reservoir; if it starts salty it stays salty. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 21:34, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Wound

2009-04-16T21:04:58Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Dismembered Dwarves Permanently Bedridden? */ so lose the bed?

==.33c bug==
My miner had a broken arm and was "resting" even though all he did was move back and forth on the screen and submit to starvation and dehydration. I set a dwarf to Health Care only, had buckets to spare, and nothing was done to care for the dwarf. As far as I'm concerned, in v.33c. Check out the pic below and the [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-184-restlesswoundedminer movie] I have.

[[Image:Injury.png | none | frame | 500px | Injured dwarf spam.]]
[[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 18:31, 24 November 2007 (EST)

Happened to me too, also v.33c [[User:Klada|Klada]] 23:49, 1 December 2007 (EST)

:This bug has been fixed --[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 23:50, 1 December 2007 (EST)

same thing is happening to me so i dont think it has... [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 12:54, 7 December 2007 (EST)

:Actually it has, as of 33d. You may need to download a new version. [[User:Klada|Klada]] 13:17, 7 December 2007 (EST)

== Priority of [[health care]] task ==

I think the game is a bit broken in that I can have a dwarf set with [[health care]] (I know it's a redlink) as their only active task, and rather than bring food to a dwarf who seems to only be moderately injured, but is now about to die from starvation - even though there is a stockpile of prepared meals 6 tiles away, and the other dwarves are resting in the same barracks![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:56, 12 February 2008 (EST)

I had a miner who was wounded in a mine collapse lie where he fell for a long time before someone came to pick him up, even after prioritizing that a single peasant would do nothing but Health Care. I had even made sure that the Health Care dwarf had "likes doing stuff for others" in his profile/thoughts. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 15:40, 25 March 2009 (EST)

== Brown Wounds ==

my legendary miner will not heal his brown wounds he must have been resting for a year now. What should I do? --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 06:54, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

:Well, have you seen where his injury is? It could be a nervous injury, which never heals (see the wound article, its really sad).

== healing speed ==
it seems that in the newest version(.38c) wounds heal at incredible speed - I watched my woodcutter fight batmen and get lightly wounded, was relieved that it was nothing worse, but when I checked back on him he was uninjured. So when my miner took on a wolf I kept a very close eye on him, and indeed he suffered moderate wounds and got a "rest" job, but the wound healed to lightly wounded before he even got back into the fortress and was gone by the time he reached his bed.--[[User:Syndic|Syndic]] 00:30, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
: chances are they have a (very) high toughness? - this will cause exactly what you describe. Send a peasant recruit into battle and you will see the difference ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 07:20, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
::Given that they were miners and woodcutters, they would become tough before they become even [[proficient]] in their trade. As mentioned by Koltom and indeed in the article, toughness has a huge effect both on the impact of being wounded (ie tough dwarves carry on regardless) AND on the rate of healing (they get better before they make it to their bed to rest).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:24, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
: I only had this once when I started a fortress in a desert without any water resources. Maybe this is a hack to prevent dwarves from dying from thirst? [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 05:20, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

I've noticed something similar to this in .40c as well. One of my miners in a new fortress, who was at best merely 'tough' sustained a red injury to his hip which had completely disappeared a few minutes later. The only unusual thing I did was draft all seven dwarves into the army first and then make them civilians after the skeletal goat was dead. I don't think the miner had even made his way to a bed to rest before this miraculous healing.[[User:Extar|Extar]] 16:06, 25 August 2008 (EDT)
: I believe every season there is a chance of a red wound healing. Perhaps he had extraordinarily high toughness and you got lucky? --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 19:53, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

== Nervous system damage ==

I have a guard with minor neck and brain injuries, so he won't spar any more. However, he is a Talented Hammerdwarf, Skilled Armor User, and Proficient Shield User (only Novice Wrestler), so I reallocated him to use a crossbow and he does infact shoot at the archery range. This could be a good way to improve troops and get Marksdwarves that might be vaguely effective in melee combat should it come to that. He's also already Mighty, Very Agile, and Tough.

I'm thinking of adding the following to the Healing section of this page, at the end of the paragraph starting with "Wounds to the nervous system...":

"A hammerdwarf with light injuries to the nervous system may no longer spar, but will train as a Marksdwarf if allocated to use a crossbow. This can be useful given that a Marksdwarf entering melee combat uses the hammerdwarf skill to bash enemies with their crossbow. They hopefully would have also trained as Wrestlers, Armor Users, and Shield Users which will help their survival rate."

Thoughts? --[[User:TimE|TimE]]

:Seems a bit too niche to be in the article as general advice. Perhaps a generality made from that idea would be appropriate however. something like "dwarves with nervous injuries too severe to be a melee fighter may still be valulable as a Marksdwarf." --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:59, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

:: I think this applies to dwarves with ''any'' nervous injuries. I like the concise version though, I'll add that. --[[User:TimE|TimE]] 00:56, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

== Color of Wounds ==
I think that lightly wounded and lopped off are too close of a color. The lopped off color should be pink, a nice bright color with eye attracting color. This way I can tell whether or not to pay attention to that individual.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 19:44, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:I agree with you on that, try making a topic in the forums about it. Toady might change it.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 21:18, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

== Spleen, kidney etc. ==

What about spleen, liver, kidneys etc ? Do they belong to "guts" ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 10:19, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== New version and light wounds ==

The new version and its possibility for messed up temps means that all organs can now be in all states of wounded-ness. That means you can get lightly wounded hearts and guts and lungs... etc.

Note that this is due to extreme frostbite, not heat.

[[User:Logical2u|Logical2u]] 23:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

I've got a war dog with lightly-wounded right lung, left lung, and heart. From combat (with a kobold thief), not from temperature exposure. -[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 19:57, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

== wounded but not resting ==

I have a dwarf who has a yellow head wound and a red upper leg wound. In the {{k|u}} screen he shows as '''No job''', on his wound status screek ({{k|v}}{{k|w}}) he is unconscious, hungry, dehydrated and drowsy.

If he is unconscious then he is not resting. I take it he is not going to trigger any health care jobs: so does this mean he is doomed?
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:29, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:He ended up dying. It seemed inevitable given that becoming unconscious seems to cancel resting.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:28, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
:I have a guard who's doing the same. Red lung wound and he's still trying to make his rounds as a guard. On the other hand, his toughness seems to be high enough that he's not dying from it... He rested when he was initially wounded (sparring) but got up because he was thirsty. He fell unconscious once in the process, but managed to slake his thirst. And then got up and grabbed his equipment. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 21:27, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
::FWIW, this guard lasted two more years limping along with a red lung until he finally died making a suicidal charge during a goblin siege. Îton Koganûker earned himself his own little decorated burial niche for his hardheaded service. Incidentally, I looked back at him and he actually had not toughness mods, so a regular dwarf survived three years with a red lung and might have survived longer if not for the charge. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:43, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
:::I have an ex-guard with a red lung injury. He's been that way for about 4 years so is it possible that lungs can't heal? At first he passed out a lot from being winded but after training him up as an engraver to improve his toughness he's able to go about a normal dwarven life. I've had a lot of odd injuries in this fortress; two guys lost both eyes somehow. One of them, a champion, seemed unperturbed by this and went on with his job for about a year until a goblin bowman took him out with a lucky shot. The other was a hunter and spammed up the announcements with "cancelled job: unconcious". He had to be... disposed of. Later, after accidentally releasing a caged titan in my entrance hall, my bone carver got a mangled stomach and lower body. I was preparing for him to die but amazingly he recovered his stomach in a season but it took him a lot longer to heal his other injury. Finally, one of my champions managed to break his lower back while sparring. I've provided him with a nice hospital where he can be looked after for the rest of his days but I fear one day he'll go beserk due to loneliness and boredom. --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 19:24, 11 February 2009 (EST)

This is caused by some problem with the bed they are placed on. Removing the bed they are on seems to fix the problem for me everytime it happens. --[[User:Engy|Engy]] 22:46, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== broken leg ==

can a dwarf with a broken leg still get around to work?
:Unfortunately, no. Anything worse then moderately wounded causes the dwarf to go sleep it off until its healed. However, ''eventually'' it will heal up and he can go back to work. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 02:32, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

I have 3 dwarves who are very injured, and seem to be refusing to move, I deactivated their squad status, but none are unconcious, and none of the dwarves at ALL are helping them for some reason, they just keep walking over them, ignoring them.

I have a royal guard with a similar problem. Was wondering if it would ever heal, but I'm starting to think after more than two years that lung injuries also never heal. Mine has at least one level of toughness, though, and the only affect is that he walks slightly slower and flashes the wounded signal at me.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 08:44, 13 December 2008 (EST)

I had a dwarf with a broken leg fall into a strange mood. He got up off his sickbed, limped to a workshop, claimed it, etc. -- all at a fraction of normal dwarf walking speed. He finished the artifact, then went back to his sickbed to finish healing. -[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 19:55, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

== Broken brain? ==

I just got a kobold trapped in my hall of spiky death, and on its wound list was a yellow(broken) brain. I suppose that means it's going to die very soon, but it seems to be fine to me... --[[User:Cypress|Cypress]] 18:21, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

:It's a kobold. You missed all its vital spots. --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 23:53, 10 December 2008 (EST)

== Blind dwarf suffers nightmares of constant attack ==
I have a dwarf with a lopped off left eye and right eye (and throat? how's he still suffering??) that is convinced that he's still under attack.
He's litterally spamming with over 1000 messages that he's canceling rest: interrupted by goblin crossbowman. In the 200-300 message range it was amusing. At this point, I'm only hoping that he shuts up when another dwarf drags him off to a bed for some rest. [[User:AmisiBastet|AmisiBastet]] 14:29, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
:Put him out of his misery. In style. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:43, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
::How? The last of the goblin ambushes for that season shut him up for me. But I don't know how to kill off one of my own dwarves. Well... not intentionally anyway. Especially when he's so busy being unconsious that he's constantly interrupting his rest due to the memory of being shot at by a goblin. I think he got up to about 3000 messages. All his minor wounds healed up too. His head was still mangled (red) with his eyes & throat lopped off (grey). Well, until the goblin finished him off anyway. [[User:AmisiBastet|AmisiBastet]] 22:50, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
:::For future reference, you can kill one of your dwarves off by dropping a constructed floor on him. Thus, it makes some sense to make bedrooms with a way to drop floor tiles on the beds. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:32, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Two words: Lava. Failing that, I usually went with GreyMaria's method and just tunnel out over the head of the wounded dwarf, and built/demolished floors atop him until dead. Too bad you can't build on bridges...I'd have an infirmary kept niiice and warm by a lava pit. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 00:47, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
:::::LOL I wish! Poor guy collapsed above ground, about 7 steps away from the entrance to the fortress. And as for dealing with any other dwarves... I've found the lava, but they're pretty stubborn about not wanting to dig anywhere near it anymore. These bunch also seem to be only seasonal-miners too. They practically refuse to dig durring the winter & are reluctant to dig in the fall. Which leaves me to spring & summer for any fortress improvements that don't involve construction or engraving. They like farming and they like engraving. Canceling those tasks doesn't even seem to encourage them to dig. They'd rather sit around with no job than go dig out rooms near the lava. Boy, ya loose 1 dwarf to a random fire-man and the dig designations never get worked on! [[User:AmisiBastet|AmisiBastet]] 00:46, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
::::::The simplest method I've found for silencing Dwarves (Usually to put them out of their misery) is to have the a room of hospital beds connected to a pump with a nearby water source (aquifer or brook, usually). In the event that a dwarf has permanently debilitating wounds, you can simply flood the room. Even a normal door will hold back 7/7 tiles of water, so all you have to do is lock them in to make sure no other dwarves decide to open it. [[User:Xennith|Xennith]] 10:45 AM, 2 March 2009 (PST)
: As fun as it is to off wounded dwarves [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25815.0 this thread on the message board] alleges that destroying the bed may end the message spam. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 17:41, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
:: Thanks for the link. I'd post there but for some odd reason my browsers won't let me register on that forum. I keep getting redirected back to the index. I can't even read the help on registering because that also redirects me back to the index. Regardless, you are correct that in my case the dwarf had not reached a bed. I think in my case it was that the goblin crossbowman that had attacked that dwarf, had later fallen into a cage trap and hadn't been killed (or left the map) yet. I've a bit of a backlog on goblins waiting to use my drowning rooms.

==Animal Wounds==
How fast can animals (e.g. leopards) heal wounds? Because I have a leopard which has minor injuries on the brain, heart, lungs and guts, and I want to use it to guard my fort (i feel like im gonna be sieged soon).--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 08:34, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
:I'm fairly certain animals can only be healed via the animal caretaker labor. I had a cat with a mangled leg for 3 years before it stumbled into a weapon trap full of looted pikes. If the creature isn't assigned to anyone, the dwarf that trained the leopard can caretake it. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:44, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

:I've never studied the mechanics of animal caretaking, but I've gotten the impression that it's a "free" task -- any time your caretaker crosses paths with a wounded animal, the animal has a chance to get better. Try turning on caretaking on all your dwarves. The leopard might need to be uncaged in order for the caretaking to take place.

:But a guardian leopard alone is not going to be enough against a siege. For that, you want at least a dozen wardogs, or a set of traps at least six deep at all entrances (ten deep if they're "mere" stone traps), or some decent marksdwarves -- five or more is best, because at just the wrong moment, half of them will wander off to drink or sleep (or reload). A single champion with top-quality armor and weapon and very high shield user, armor user, and wrestling skills can potentially take out a whole squad by him or herself, but that takes about two or three years worth of sparring (with another champion) and you better hope they don't get spinal injuries or they'll stop training altogether.

:Barring that, use dogs if you got 'em, traps if you don't. And build traps anyway. You can secure a fortress in a couple of months using a couple of mechanics. And you won't get hit by an actual goblin siege until you have 80 dwarves, supposedly, though "ambushes" of about 8 goblins can come much sooner.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:29, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

:Well, I did get sieged, but my army decimated the ugly gobbos before they could even come close (theres a load of blood near the norhern edge now) so the leopard was of no use. Talking of ward dogs, being an idiot, I went and made most of my dogs available for pets before I realised that pets cant be trained. Luckily a pair of stray puppies grew up a day before the siege but the two war dogs which i trained were too slow and the battle was over before they reached. About the animal caretaker, I do have one but he isn't really doing anything about the leopard (and a fox which i also bought from the elves, also with same injuries) --[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 23:51, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
::I'm fairly certain from my experiences that animal caretaking only applies to animals that 'belong' to the caretaker. The only dwarf with any skill in caretaking I've had has been my dungeon master because he has trained over a dozen wardogs that haven't been assigned elsewhere yet. Meanwhile my champions have wardogs and cats that have been mangled for years. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:48, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I've seen animals on chains healed -- by whom, I don't know. It may just be that dwarves are more likely to heal their own pets since said pets are always in their vicinity.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:44, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Apparently any caged animal you buy has minor wounds on the brain, heart, lungs and guts. I bought a jaguar, another leopard and a rhesus from the elves and all have the same injuries.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 21:39, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
:::::I bought a black bear cage and it didn't have any wounds, could it be that the elves are traveling through a hostile region to reach your fortress? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:23, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::Are you in a cold region? Maybe they got frostbitten on the trip to the depot.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 11:22, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

*sorry to interrupt*
i have a war dog with a red (mangled?) 'right rear leg' and 'head'. it's been like that for about a year now, crawling aruond the fortress and sitting where it's former master died (with it's/another dog's two puppies, might i add), passing out all the time. will it die soon? infact, shouldnt it be dead already, having a mangled head? (no internal organs seem to be damaged)

== Down, but not Out ==

Something I noticed earlier today: Late in my first winter, one of my dwarves was injured while sparring with swords. His leg was yellow, no blood anywhere to be seen, and he was literally right next to a bed. He would not accept any jobs, wouldn't climb into bed to rest, eat, drink water, and nobody else would help him. He lay on the floor for a few months until he got really dehydrated and fell unconscious. Finally somebody drug him to the bed and is now bringing him water. I also noticed that "He is socially crippled by thoughts that everybody is watching and judging him" in his profile. Too mistrusting of help until he is unable to say no (finally fell unconscious). I'm hoping for a full recovery now that he is accepting help. [[User:KValthaliondil|KValthaliondil]] 18:43, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:I have had this problem too...I think it is bug 360? I lost a legendary wrestler to melancholy from it already, another one is now affected by it -- I hope he collapses and gets dragged to a bed like yours did before he goes insane too.--[[User:Scrotch|Scrotch]] 20:37, 20 January 2009 (EST)

== '' verify '' ==
'' so claiming it may help, as may marking it to be dumped.(verify) '' this most definitely worked, in a most excellent manner. now my most non-non-non-heinous speardwarf can recover. Note that I had to de-forbid it first, and then mark it for dumping. has anyone else had any experience with this? also, I still do not know if he will recover, we will have to wait.--(the most non-heinous)[[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:49, 27 December 2008 (EST)(be excellent to each other)

:this worked for me, too. I also don't know whether he'll recover yet, but the bolt is out of his arm. --[[User:Khummsein|Khummsein]] 01:11, 5 March 2009 (EST)

::Worked all the way. Legendary carpenter was up and running around, eating up all my wood again. Really quickly, too (maybe a month or two game time? This after lying in bed for almost 2 years). --[[User:Khummsein|Khummsein]] 10:08, 6 March 2009 (EST)

:::i'll edit the page accordingly then [[User:Kotekzot|Kotekzot]] 17:31, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

== Dismembered Dwarves Permanently Bedridden? ==

I have a dwarf who got his hand bitten off and his upper and lower body broken. After a year or so he was completely healed, albeit still handless. He still hasn't gotten out of bed, though. Will he ever recover, or is this a bug?--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 05:22, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
: Maybe try deconstructing the bed in question, as above? (Next release will bring doctors and splints, apparently; maybe lopped off limbs will be colored purple or something other than another shade of lightly wounded gray...) --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 21:04, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Farming

2009-02-13T16:46:21Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Greenhouse */ blunt

== Farming in Winter ==

It appears that farm plots now have a menu for farming in the winter. Has anyone done this yet? --[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 00:42, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:Sounds like winter farming works fine. It's probably part of the general streamlining of temperature and whatnot (why would a tropical winter be worse than a glacial summer, underground?) --Doomclown

::Spider Webs do not seem to depend on being near the water or farms now. Most I have seen appeared in a narrow valley on the outside of the mountain. --Silveron

:::Winter farming is working fine, I've farmed Plump helmets whole winter. No starved dwarves for me! --[[User:UltimaPhantom|UltimaPhantom]] 15:25, 8 November 2007 (EST)

== Farming aboveground issue ==

You're allowed to build aboveground farm plots on areas where you can't actually plant seeds, but it doesn't tell you this. Basically you have to make sure farm plots outdoors are built on biomes that have at least some vegetation (shrubs, grass doesn't count) in order for your dwarves to actually plant the seeds you set. Trying to farm on a mountain biome or any other that is listed with "Other Vegetation: None" will end up with the plot just being ignored. And there are now often multiple biomes in any given fortress map, as seen on the site selection menu when you start a fort. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 21:23, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:Farming in the winter is handy now, but does any one know what it means when the plant type in the farm (when you pick out what yave our going to grow) is red? It won't let me grow it! --Comment by [[User:Rock n Rat|Rock n Rat]] and copy-edited by [[User:Savok|Savok]] due to its high level of unreadability

::When the name is red, that means that, for whatever reason, that crop cannot be planted at that time. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:53, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

::This is most likely because it is late winter, and any seeds planted at that point won't have time to grow by the end of the year. It doesn't take into account the fact that the crops may still be growable in the spring as it does with the other seasons; something about the new year throws it off. --[[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 10:06, 18 November 2007 (EST)

== Mixed Plots ==

The following paragraph contradicts itself a couple times, which is the correct behavior? <blockquote>
The farm plot should be either entirely above ground or entirely subterranean. A mixed-class farm plot will allow you to choose any crop for planting, but the chosen crop will be planted only on tiles capable of growing it. Worse, planters will not skip over the infertile tiles, leaving the rest of the plot fallow whether it can support the crop or not.</blockquote>[[User:Amstrad|Amstrad]] 17:07, 10 November 2007 (EST)

:I think what it means is that the planter will plant until he reaches a tile incapable of growing, the stop completely. Let's say you have a 1x8 plot, and tile 3 is not capable of growing the crop. Tiles 1 and 2 will be planted, but the farmer will stop at 3. He will not skip over it and continue planting tiles 4-8. It is not contradictory, but should be reworded. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 13:48, 18 November 2007 (EST)

::What the writer mean by "mixed plot" is if you build a plot underground and open the roof in some place. The area(s) where you don't have roofing anymore will be considered as above ground, and the rest will still be considered by the game to be underground. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 18:09, 18 November 2007 (EST)

== Food Hauling caveat ==

It was suggested that stone and wood hauling be turned off during planting season to prevent starvation. It seems more prudent to me that in case of eminent starvation to turn off FOOD HAULING so all the hungry dwarves can swarm the previously tasked foods. Then turn it back on and let them continue taking their time getting it to where it needs to be. Is this a bad idea? ~~

== Flowchart ==

That's got to be the most complicated possible way to present that information, which is already covered in a much clearer table on the [[crops]] page. It would also be horribly intimidating to the newbies. No offense to whoever took the time to make this monstrosity, but I think it should be axed, or at the least moved to the more relevant crops page. [[User:Mzbundifund|Mzbundifund]] 23:25, 28 November 2007 (CST)

:You say it like Dwarf Fortress itself is not horribly intimidating. No offense taken, but, then again, farming is one of the most complicated aspects of the game and I spent quite some time trying to wrap my mind around it's quirks.

:I made this illustration to help me plan workshops chaining, optimize hauling and quickly evaluate gathered shrubs. Tabular data on the [[Crops]] page serves great as a reference, but not so much as an aid in designing processes. Besides, some people like me comprehend such visual form of information easier.
:This diagram is already linked on [[Crops]] page, and if people deem that image describing in detail farming workflow doesn't belong to [[Farming]] page, so be it. [[User:Nophotoavailable|Nophotoavailable]] 02:49, 29 November 2007 (EST)

:It's seems a great flowchart to me, especially the way it's linked in the corner so it doesn't dominate the page. Well done for creating it. [[User:Djp|Djp]] 05:46, 29 November 2007 (EST)

::I appreciate the flowchart, and find it more useful for contemplating the system-as-a-whole than the table on Crops. Table's good for detail, bad for seeing relationships & alternatives, like "What are all the crops that I can use to make fabric?". [[User:Kidinnu|Kidinnu]] 08:54, 29 November 2007 (EST)

::Hah, I seem to be in the minority, if indeed there's even one other person who agrees with me. Fair enough. [[User:Mzbundifund|Mzbundifund]] 15:38, 28 November 2007 (CST)

== Re-Irrigation ==

I noticed that my unused farms, after a time, will show "No seeds available for this location". There doesn't seem to be anything on this wiki to talk about this. I later found out (by loo{{K|k}ing around}) that this is because the tiles underneath the plot were no longer muddy. Shouldn't there be a section to warn players that even active farms have some de-muddified tiles (farmers no longer walk on them, to muddify them), that should periodically be irrigated? --[[User:Akel Desyn|Akel Desyn]] 10:24, 3 December 2007 (EST)

:Ooh, that happens? That's really important. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least two important things that need revision.
:However, I use soil for farming (so far), so I shouldn't be the one to fix them. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:37, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

== Red crops ==

We should try to figure out once and for all what the reddened crops mean. The two most popular explanations I see floating around are either that there are not enough days left in the season to grow it and that the farm is not fertile enough. My testing has shown that it is neither. In late autumn (13 Timber, not enough time to grow anything) cave wheat and pig tails red out, while quarry bushes do not. Quarry bushes can't be grown in winter either, so something weird is going on. It's not fertility either, because the plots that have had nothing grown on them redden out at exactly the same time as the ones constantly used. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:05, 27 December 2007 (EST)

:I remember reading somewhere that farmers have to have experience with a crop dying from being planted too late in a season before they know when it's too late to plant it. Sounds implausible, but I wouldn't put it past Toady to implement it that way. Had your farmers ever planted quarry bushes "too late" before your test?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:28, 28 December 2007 (EST)

:I've never planted quarry bushes at that fortress. Now that I think of it, I don't think I had any rock nuts at all. That's probably it. Crops only redden out if you have the seeds for them. I'll start a test fortress with no pig tails or something and see if I can confirm this. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 09:21, 28 December 2007 (EST)

::I've confirmed this. Crops red out if there are not enough days left in the season, but do NOT red out if you have no seeds. In my test, I brought rock nuts and plump helmet spawn only. In late summer, sweet pods did not redden out. In late autumn, only quarry bushes reddened out. However, I noticed another oddity. Quarry bushed reddened out when there were less than 25 days left until winter, even though they take 41 days to grow! I need to test whether they will wilt when planted between 41 and 25 days left. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 10:28, 28 December 2007 (EST)

::This is strange. It reddened out after I selected it and let it run for a game day (there were 39 days left in the season). Maybe the trigger for reddening is trying to plant it, not having seeds. This definitely needs more testing. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 10:41, 28 December 2007 (EST)

:::Plants will red out if there is not enough time for them to grow in this season ''and'' they can't be grown in the next season (Otherwise they are just transferred to the next season). ''Dark'' red means there are still seeds on the plot of that plant. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:38, 4 March 2008 (EST)

::::I've experienced something completely wierd. My pump helmets have red out. I am in a Scorching environment and the field had just been made. It always happens towards the end of Winter as well. Currently in-game it's the 17th obsidian. It turned back to normal the first day of spring.[[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 03:29, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

I've a farm plot where Plump Helmets are red - and you can grow them all year round! --[[User:Theory|Theory]] 13:50, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

== Fertilization ==

So you can choose to fertilise your plots with potash. How long does this last? How much more crop does a fertilised plot produce and if I fertilise more than once in short succesion, does it produce even more? [[User:Robje|Robje]] 17:33, 21 January 2008 (EST)
And what does ''seas fert'' option mean?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 07:48, 7 February 2008 (EST)

:seas fert - seasonal fertilization? - auto fertilize every season?
:: It seems so. The first time I saw it, I thought it meant fertilize with seaweeds (LOL).--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:08, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

I cant fertilize my indoor clay loam plot (probably not needed) - will now check silt. Muddy rock seems to work? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:03, 20 February 2008 (EST)

:IIRC, adds +3 to crop yield. I may be wrong. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:06, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Ow. The Ghost of the English Language has been offended once more. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:37, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

=== Double-check ===

I've made 20 units of potash since starting my fortress (two 10-unit orders from the job manager) and have bought at least one unit from a dwarf caravan. Each indoor plot says Ft: 0/1, and the outdoor plots say Ft: 0/8. I have double-checked that all my plots say "Seas Fert (Y)." So why is it that I still have 21 units of potash on my inventory screen? Have they not been fertilizing? Why not? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:11, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:Fertilization is indoors-only on muddy plots, afaik. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:22, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:: So you can't fertilize indoor soil plots? All my farms are on Silty Clay Loam. *boogle* Now I'll have to figure out how to set up an irrigation system. Or, I suppose, just convert the potash to pearlash....--[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 19:07, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:: Okay, now I'm even more confused. Today I loaded up the game, and within an hour, they fertilized my outdoor farms. The only difference is that I started filling the moat, which borders the outdoor farms on two sides each (one tile barrier). One of my indoor farms borders the moat on one side, but that wasn't fertilized. o.O --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== Greenhouse ==

To my experience, the ceiling on a "greenhouse" can be made out of anything, my rock salt greenhouses work just fine. [[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 20:03, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

:This is accurate. Floors of any variety let in light, even though dozens of levels of flooring. You can have an 'above ground' farm hundreds of feet underground.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 13:36, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

::IIRC, most (all?) floors do not let in light, but they do let in abovegroundness. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:37, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Cancel that. It's ''outsideness'' that they don't let it.

The paragraph on chanelling+roof to build a greenhouse seems off base. If you're going to build a roof, you may as well build walls around your field on high ground. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:08, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

:Not really, no. Using floors is just as good for farming as being aboveground, and just as secure as staying underground. Plus, just walling in an area has problems on top of that, such as triggering cave adaptation. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 16:29, 20 January 2009 (EST)

----

Personally, I dislike the section Greenhouse, since it boils down to "constructions don't block light, so you can build an aboveground farm plot deep in the earth," which is one of those telling-people-how-to-play-the-game-not-just-how-the-game-works things that I find detract. Opinions? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:28, 13 February 2009 (EST)
: Rip out that guide and give it to 'em bluntly, like you say. But do note it's an exploit, we just consider it less of an exploit to use glass or grates. Isn't it really a "once lit by the sun, always lit by the sun" bug? --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:46, 13 February 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Crossbow

2009-02-13T16:37:18Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Bolts */ when is a full quiver not a full quiver?

== Training with Crossbows, Wooden/Bone Bolts more than preferred ==

Dwarves will automatically use only wooden or bone bolts, you needn't worry about metal bolts being wasted on practice.

Based on classic DF, bone or wooden bolts will indeed be used to fight if the dwarf doesn't have anything else though, and they sometimes would just coincidentally have a handful of "practice" bolts when they went out to battle thus having a useful backup. Especially nice when they're very highly skilled and 35-45 bolts isn't enough to last the duration of a fight!

== Out of ammo ==

Is it worth noting (on this page) that dwarves will use the hammer skill to bludgeon with their crossbow if they run out of ammo? --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 09:22, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:I think it is, if only to warn that if they run out of bolts while they're fighting something, they won't immediately run back to the stockpile to get more. --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 09:26, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::What triggers them to resupply? They seem to stand around after finishing off their bolts. Do I need to stand them down to trigger the resupply? --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 19:24, 22 January 2009 (EST)

==Xbow material==
Do someone know if your crossbow hit harder, or do more damage, when it's made of metal rather than wood or bone in the same way a melee weapon would? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 02:42, 28 November 2007 (EST)
:When it is used in melee - crossbow material is important as all other melee weapons. In ranged only material and quality of the bolt affect it's damage potential. Crossbow's quality level is directly added to the soldier's effective marksdwarf skill increasing his accuracy and rate of fire.--[[User:Another|Another]] 13:11, 9 December 2007 (EST)

== training ===

Does say, hunting with a crossbow increase marksdwarf skill?
<small>—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] ([[User talk:Shadow archmagi|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Shadow archmagi|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small>
: Yes it does. Unfortunately it will also increase hammerdwarf skill ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:53, 27 February 2008 (EST)
: Interestingly enough, the converse isn't true- target practice at the archery range has had no effect on my hunter's ambushing skill. Article update? [[User:LucienSadi|LucienSadi]] 05:45, 11 December 2008 (EST)

== dual wielding ==

I set one of my marksdwarves to wield 2 crossbows, and he's currently holding them both in the same hand. Can he use them both like this or does it mean he'll just going to be using one of them? --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 18:18, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

:Late as hell, but for the record no dwarves truly dual wield in DF. When they carry 2 weapons, it's just in case they lose one in an enemy or it shatters in the middle of a fight. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 14:59, 3 November 2008 (EST)

::Shatter? Wow, I've never seen that.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 15:20, 3 November 2008 (EST)

==Two-handed?==
Are crossbows two-handed when used at range? You'd think they'd be two-handed for re-loading, and one-handed (at the very least, two hands are more accurate) for firing, but I don't know if DF supports this.[[User:StrawberryBunny|StrawberryBunny]] 10:34, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

On a more important issue; will a Dwarf be capable of carrying a shield while using a crossbow in case he was forced into melee? Would he only equip the shield up close? How would it affect his ability to carry bolts in his off-hand?

== Z-levels and Range ==

How does firing up or down affect the range of a marksdwarf? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 17:15, 10 November 2008 (EST)

:From what I've seen, marksdwarves can shoot up or down with little problem. The range of a marksdwarf is pretty finite anyway, something like 20 squares.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:36, 10 November 2008 (EST)

==Bolts==
Do bolts even have a quality rating, and if so does it affect damage? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 00:12, 22 November 2008 (EST)

They do have a quality rating. It's hard to tell for the other question, but it should. Ammo is treated like weapons in most other respects. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 00:55, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:To me, it's grades of ammo- no-quality is pretty much wooden chopsticks, masterwork is fluted and grooved with slight serrations at the tip for maximum pain... --[[User:LucienSadi|LucienSadi]] 19:55, 11 December 2008 (EST)

I just had to shout somewhere that I can't wait for re-stacking to be implemented, or the quiver fixed as a container, so I never again have to worry about a dwarf charging into combat with a single reclaimed bolt rattling alone in his quiver. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:37, 13 February 2009 (EST)

40d:Corpse

2009-02-13T16:33:05Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Fortress Mode */ update to armor forbidden-by-default

A '''Corpse''' is a dead body. It could be anyone's body, from a [[creature]] to a [[dwarf]], or even [[Adventure mode|you]].

All corpses will rot away, eventually. All corpses will leave behind their posessions where they died. Corpses left to rot in an enclosed space, such as your [[fortress]], will emit [[miasma]]. After a time, the flesh will rot away, leaving behind [[bones]] and a [[skull]].

If the corpse was involved in a fight before death, it is possible for parts of the corpse to be scattered around. [[Hammerdwarf|Hammerlords]] and the like are notorious for blasting apart bodies in one swing. Should a corpse be severed from its parts, all the equipment you'd expect to be on the limbs will usually be located where the limb fell.

==Fortress Mode==
The corpse of a dead dwarf should be buried. To avoid unhappy [[thought]]s, the sooner it is placed in a [[burial receptacle]], the better. Any dwarf that dies will make unhappy thoughts for anyone it is related to, but left to rot where it is, all dwarves passing by will have unhappy thoughts. Further, any friends of the dwarf will become increasingly upset at the lack of care and attention being given to the would-be honored dead, with a further unhappy thought when the corpse begins to emit miasma, and another when it rots away to a skeleton.

The corpse of an animal can be valuable to your dwarves. When brought to the [[butcher's shop]], a [[butcher]] will dice up the corpse into [[meat]], bones and [[fat]]. Depending on the animal, [[raw hide]] and skulls may also be rendered. Dumping the corpse in a refuse pile near the [[butcher's shop]] before it rots will also trigger the [[butcher]] task. A [[hunter]] who survives long enough to return his kill will butcher it himself.

[[Invader]] corpses will lie in a heap with their [[clothing]], [[armor]] and [[weapons]], if any. Everything but the corpse is [[forbid]]den by default if lost in combat; but your [[dwarves]] will still retrieve the corpses and/or bodyparts and dump them in your [[refuse]] pile. This can be a very bad thing during a [[siege]], as dwarves that are not locked away and do not have [[hauling]] jobs turned off will walk into the middle of a battlefield to retrieve them. So you may wish to manually forbid the corpse or keep your dwarves inside.

[[Category:Items]]
[[Category:Materials]]

40d:Hauling

2009-02-13T16:19:56Z

Jellyfishgreen: Burial

Hauling is the process of bringing an object to its designated place. Many larger fortresses use dwarves dedicated to hauling so that their other, more specialized dwarves will spend more time working and less time dragging whatever they made to the appropriate '''[[stockpile]]'''.

== Automatic hauling ==
Some hauling tasks do not require any hauling [[labor]]:
* A dwarf working at a workshop will gather the raw materials needed to produce wanted goods. However, produced goods require the appropriate hauling [[labor]] to be moved out of the workshop in order to avoid [[clutter]]. Dwarves producing goods at a workshop tend to keep producing them and will not necessarily clear their own workshops of clutter even when they have the appropriate hauling labor enabled.
* All dwarves, including [[noble]]s and [[children]] (but not [[soldier]]s) will bring goods to the [[depot]].
* A [[mood|moody]] dwarf will gather the raw materials needed for a mysterious construction.
* A dwarf {{k|b}}uilding something will move the needed materials to the construction site.
** Before a dwarf will build something, he will need to have the appropriate labor as specified by the task. If the dwarf is building a chair or similar, the dwarf needs Furniture Hauling; if the dwarf is building a wooden wall, it's Carpentry, and so forth. Workshops are usually constructed by any dwarf that can work in that workshop.
* Dwarves in the midst of eating will carry their meal to a table.
* Removing constructed objects will be done by all dwarves.
* Filling pits and ponds will be done by all dwarves.
* If you have the "All dwarves harvest" option turned on, all dwarves will help bring in the harvest, even if they don't have Food Hauling enabled.

== Stone hauling ==
Dwarves with the stone hauling [[labor]] enabled will haul [[stone]]s, [[ore]]s, [[gem]]s and stone [[block]]s to the appropriate [[stockpile]]s.

== Wood hauling ==
Dwarves with the wood hauling [[labor]] enabled will haul wood [[log]]s to the corresponding [[stockpile]]s. <s>Deforestation</s>Wood production can be sped up a lot by turning off wood hauling on your most skilled [[woodcutter]] who will focus exclusively on cutting down trees. This will however expose more of your dwarves as many wood haulers will go outside to retrieve the logs.

== Item hauling ==
Dwarves with the item hauling [[labor]] will haul miscellaneous items like blocks and collect [[sand]] for a [[glass furnace]].

== Food hauling ==
Dwarves with the food hauling [[labor]] will haul food and drinks to the appropriate [[stockpile]]s.

== Refuse hauling ==
Dwarves with the refuse hauling [[labor]] will haul rotting food, and non-dwarf bodyparts to refuse [[stockpile]]s. They will also [[dump]] marked items to the appropriate [[activity zone]]. Refuse hauling are subject to refuse orders (''{{k|o}}: Set Orders and Options -> {{k|r}}: Refuse Orders'').

== Burial ==
Dwarves with the Burial [[labor]] will haul dwarf and pet [[corpse]]s and bodyparts to [[Graveyard]] [[stockpile]]s or [[coffin]]s.

== Furniture hauling ==
Dwarves with the furniture hauling [[labor]] will haul [[furniture]] to the appropriate [[stockpile]]s. They will also '''{{k|b}}uild''' simple furniture items ([[bed]]s, [[chair]]s, [[table]]s, etc.).

== Animal hauling ==
Dwarves with the animal hauling [[labor]] will haul small vermin cages and animal cages to the appropriate [[stockpile]]s. They will also drag any creature to the [[restraint]] or [[activity zone]] it was designated to.

== Tips and issues ==
In order to minimize hauling trips, stockpiles should be placed with care.
* input and ouput stockpiles should be placed near corresponding [[workshop]]s.
* spoils of war: dwarves may haul entire bins full of items, or items individually. However, they are not smart enough to bin items in order to carry them, so this may end in numerous needless trips from deceased enemies to your fortress, each dwarf carrying one item at a time. To counter this:
** place a small [[bin]] stockpile and a general purpose stockpile near the battlefield.
** when every spoil has been binned, remove the stockpiles, mark the filled bins for dumping, deactivate your usual garbage zone and create a new one in your fortress.
** when everything has been moved, reclaim your dumped items and restore your garbage zones as usual.
* construction: when constructing something big away from your fort (e.g. a road), the dwarf assigned to the construction will have to carry each item from your fort to the construction, which can take a long time. By putting stockpiles near your construction project, many dwarves may participate in the hauling, thus increasing dramatically construction speed.

=== Backlogs ===

To ensure that high-priority hauling tasks get done quickly, you should employ a large number of haulers, and specialize them by having only one or two hauling [[labor]]s enabled. This is most important for food hauling, where [[prepared meal]]s in the [[kitchen]] often rot while your dwarves are hauling individual seeds left behind after someone eats a plump helmet.

The backlog problem is exacerbated by the fact that the hauling [[job]] queue is tied to how many haulers of each type you have; if 100 dwarves have food hauling enabled, up to 100 food hauling tasks can be in the queue, even if those dwarves are busy hauling stone, doing workshop tasks, sleeping, or doing anything else.{{verify}} This is why hauling specialization is so important.

=== Two stockpiles are better than one ===

For stockpiles that use [[bin]]s or [[barrel]]s, it is usually better to cut one large stockpile into a handful of smaller ones. This is because dwarves will only load one bin or barrel at a time, and may go idle for long periods while they wait for the next-chosen bin or barrel to actually get hauled to the stockpile before they can load it. By using several smaller stockpiles, haulers can retrieve and fill multiple bins or barrels simultaneously.

[[Category:Skills]]

40d Talk:Coffin

2009-02-13T16:12:56Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Allow Citizens */ and goblin recruits

==Where to put them==
Do I build these on a stockpile, or is the stockpile "next to" where I want to "inter" dwarves?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 20:48, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:You build them wherever you want to put your dead. I'm not too sure what stockpile you're talking about. If you have the coffin built prior to dwarven-death, the bloke that has to haul the departed should put them directly into the coffin. I could be wrong, but I personally haven't seen a dwarf moved from graveyard "stockpile" to a coffin, and believe that if a place of burial isn't available upon death, that they won't be buried, simply hauled. I could easily be wrong on this, but that's what my experience showed me, the one time I had a dead dwarf in a graveyard that hadn't started rotting when a coffin was newly built. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:17, 6 January 2008 (EST)
::I believe he referring to the graveyard stockpile where dead things will be dumped if the do not have use of a coffin. Also note that coffins must be built underground(or in a room?).--[[User:Mhyder|Mhyder]] 12:09, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
::I had a dwarf hauled from the graveyard to a coffin just fine (40d) [[User:Edenicholas|Edenicholas]] 22:50, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

== Deceased ==

OK, so I can build a Tomb and asign it to ''live citizens''.

What about my poor dead woodcutter sitting outside in the dead animal repository... how do I get him appropriately '''interred'''?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 20:55, 5 January 2008 (EST)

:Open up the {{k|q}} menu and press the key for 'use for burial', {{k|r}} I believe. The 'make tomb' option is just to make the stuck-up nobles happy about their burial arrangements. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 21:11, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:: When said stuck-up noble is dead, deconstruct and dump the stuck-up coffin.--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 05:59, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

== Allow Citizens ==
So I know that if you "q" over the built burial receptacle, you can "Allow Pets" and "Allow Citizens". I understand if you don't want pets beside your dwarves, but what is the "allow citizens" option used for? Turning it off does not seem to affect the ability to bury my dwarves. --[[User:Langdon|Langdon]] 02:43, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
::Neither of these options forbids citizens. The allow pets one will allow a pet or a citizen to be buried there. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 14:20, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
:::I'm guessing that if you turned off allow citizens the coffin could also have outsiders interred. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:32, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
::::I'm getting invading goblin-raised dwarves (with goblin names) interred in my caskets. Maybe it's any dwarf belonging to a civ, not just fortress residents. Goblins just get thrown on the rubbish pile. After we kill them, of course. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:12, 13 February 2009 (EST)

== Style ==
Bonus [[fun|points]] for placing coffins in the wine cellar. [http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevaliers_de_la_table_ronde_%28chanson_populaire%29 Si je meurs je veux qu'on m'enterre dans une cave où y a du bon vin] --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 05:59, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

:You reminded me of that funny episode of the Simpsons where Bart is kidnapped in France and forced to make wine by some thugs. On another note, what does that song mean anyway? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 07:18, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

:: This song would be one of the most popular french drinking song. An approximate translation of some selected lyrics follows.
:::"[[champion|Knights]] of the round [[table]], let's drink and taste our [[brew]]
:::...
:::If I die, I want to be buried in a [[food stockpile|cellar]] where there is some [[masterpiece|masterpiece]] [[alcohol|wine]]
:::Both feet against the [[wall]], and my [[skull|head]] placed under the [[floodgate|spigot]]
:::On my [[tomb]] I want [[engraving|engraved]] ''Here lies the [[king]] of [[dwarf|drinkers]]''"
::--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 08:12, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

== Burial at Sea ==
Dwarves will get unhappy if their friends and loved ones are left to rot, and so the best thing to do it to summarily dump all corpses into the magma for a proper burial at sea. You can still build coffins for the dead and place them, relations won't grieve for a properly disposed of corpse, and the coffins will be marked with the names of the dearly departed who have gone to rejoin the one true heart of the mountains. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 22:04, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Clutter of Clothing ==
My dwarves plaster the vicinity around a dwarfs' coffin with their clothing for no apparent reason. Why do they bring it there, and why do they leave it there? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 00:32, 2 November 2008 (EDT)
: I did notice that after [[Unfortunate accident|accidentally]] killing a noble, his rooms were reclaimed, but since he still owned a Tomb all his clothing and owned goods were moved to the Tomb by the cleanup crew. Is this what you're talking about? --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:09, 13 February 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Coffin

2009-02-13T16:09:30Z

Jellyfishgreen: /* Clutter of Clothing */

==Where to put them==
Do I build these on a stockpile, or is the stockpile "next to" where I want to "inter" dwarves?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 20:48, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:You build them wherever you want to put your dead. I'm not too sure what stockpile you're talking about. If you have the coffin built prior to dwarven-death, the bloke that has to haul the departed should put them directly into the coffin. I could be wrong, but I personally haven't seen a dwarf moved from graveyard "stockpile" to a coffin, and believe that if a place of burial isn't available upon death, that they won't be buried, simply hauled. I could easily be wrong on this, but that's what my experience showed me, the one time I had a dead dwarf in a graveyard that hadn't started rotting when a coffin was newly built. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:17, 6 January 2008 (EST)
::I believe he referring to the graveyard stockpile where dead things will be dumped if the do not have use of a coffin. Also note that coffins must be built underground(or in a room?).--[[User:Mhyder|Mhyder]] 12:09, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
::I had a dwarf hauled from the graveyard to a coffin just fine (40d) [[User:Edenicholas|Edenicholas]] 22:50, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

== Deceased ==

OK, so I can build a Tomb and asign it to ''live citizens''.

What about my poor dead woodcutter sitting outside in the dead animal repository... how do I get him appropriately '''interred'''?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 20:55, 5 January 2008 (EST)

:Open up the {{k|q}} menu and press the key for 'use for burial', {{k|r}} I believe. The 'make tomb' option is just to make the stuck-up nobles happy about their burial arrangements. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 21:11, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:: When said stuck-up noble is dead, deconstruct and dump the stuck-up coffin.--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 05:59, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

== Allow Citizens ==
So I know that if you "q" over the built burial receptacle, you can "Allow Pets" and "Allow Citizens". I understand if you don't want pets beside your dwarves, but what is the "allow citizens" option used for? Turning it off does not seem to affect the ability to bury my dwarves. --[[User:Langdon|Langdon]] 02:43, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
::Neither of these options forbids citizens. The allow pets one will allow a pet or a citizen to be buried there. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 14:20, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
:::I'm guessing that if you turned off allow citizens the coffin could also have outsiders interred. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:32, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

== Style ==
Bonus [[fun|points]] for placing coffins in the wine cellar. [http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevaliers_de_la_table_ronde_%28chanson_populaire%29 Si je meurs je veux qu'on m'enterre dans une cave où y a du bon vin] --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 05:59, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

:You reminded me of that funny episode of the Simpsons where Bart is kidnapped in France and forced to make wine by some thugs. On another note, what does that song mean anyway? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 07:18, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

:: This song would be one of the most popular french drinking song. An approximate translation of some selected lyrics follows.
:::"[[champion|Knights]] of the round [[table]], let's drink and taste our [[brew]]
:::...
:::If I die, I want to be buried in a [[food stockpile|cellar]] where there is some [[masterpiece|masterpiece]] [[alcohol|wine]]
:::Both feet against the [[wall]], and my [[skull|head]] placed under the [[floodgate|spigot]]
:::On my [[tomb]] I want [[engraving|engraved]] ''Here lies the [[king]] of [[dwarf|drinkers]]''"
::--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 08:12, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

== Burial at Sea ==
Dwarves will get unhappy if their friends and loved ones are left to rot, and so the best thing to do it to summarily dump all corpses into the magma for a proper burial at sea. You can still build coffins for the dead and place them, relations won't grieve for a properly disposed of corpse, and the coffins will be marked with the names of the dearly departed who have gone to rejoin the one true heart of the mountains. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 22:04, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Clutter of Clothing ==
My dwarves plaster the vicinity around a dwarfs' coffin with their clothing for no apparent reason. Why do they bring it there, and why do they leave it there? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 00:32, 2 November 2008 (EDT)
: I did notice that after [[Unfortunate accident|accidentally]] killing a noble, his rooms were reclaimed, but since he still owned a Tomb all his clothing and owned goods were moved to the Tomb by the cleanup crew. Is this what you're talking about? --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 11:09, 13 February 2009 (EST)