Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.31:Losing

2010-05-14T05:35:56Z

KFK: typo fixes, nothing to see here

{{Quality|Exceptional}}
{{av}}

Losing is fun!

Either way, it keeps you busy.

There is no internal end point or single goal or final Easter egg or "You Win!" announcement in Dwarf Fortress. Therefore, eventually, almost every fortress will fall. The only ones that don't tend to be very conservative and very boring - and what fun is that? Therefore, fun = losing, losing = fun, DF = losing = fun, and that's okay! It's a game philosophy, so embrace it, own it, and have ''fun'' with it!

Most new players will lose their first few forts earlier than later; <s>if</s> when you lose a {{l|fortress}}, don't feel like you don't understand the game. Dwarf Fortress has a steep learning curve, and part of the process (and fun!) is discovering things for yourself. However, this Wiki serves as an excellent place to speed up the learning process.

If you lose, you can always {{l|reclaim fortress mode|reclaim fortress}} or go visit it in {{l|adventurer mode}}.

If you're looking for more ways to <s>die horribly</s> test yourself, try either the {{l|mega construction}} or the {{l|Challenges}} articles.

== Autopsy ==

Various common things can cause the death of a fortress. Let's examine some together...

===Local Wildlife===
Goblins aren't the only creatures that want you dead. The obvious threats aside, some {{L|creature}}s with benign names or descriptions can be surprisingly deadly. A sudden wildlife attack can quickly cripple or destroy an unprepared fortress. Before you unpause a new game for the first time, hit {{k|u}}nits, and scroll down to see what's sharing your map. Learn to do this regularly - new creatures will frequently migrate onto your map and then off again to be replaced by others.

Consider arming up and thinning out any predictable threats.

===Underground Life===
Underground life can be even more dangerous than surface life. Dig through a cavern, and expect hordes of animalmen and other cave creatures to invade your fortress. Unlike wildlife, these creatures never migrate off. Arming up helps a lot, as there really is only a small entrance they can get in by.

===No Food===

A serious danger, generally in the more inhospitable {{L|climate}}s, is the loss of your {{L|dwarf|dwarves}} due to starvation. As dwarves begin to starve, they will become {{L|hungry}}, then {{L|starving}}. This will cause them first to slow down all work, and then to become very {{L|unhappy}}. When they die, their friends will become upset and will become even more unhappy, potentially causing the remainder of your fortress to break out in a {{L|tantrum spiral|terminal hissy fit}}.

Don't forget your alternative sources of {{L|food}}. If your {{L|farm}}s aren't doing the job and a {{L|caravan|trade caravan}} is months away, try {{L|butchering}} your {{L|domestic animal}}s, {{L|plant gathering|gathering plants}}, or resorting to {{L|hunting}} of local wildlife.

===No Booze===
Equally as bad is no {{L|alcohol}}, which dwarves ''require'' to be happy and productive. Some alcohol can be acquired from {{L|caravan}}s, but not enough for an entire fort until the next caravan arrives. You must {{L|farm}} plants to then {{L|brew}} those in a {{L|still}} with an empty {{L|barrel}} - it's just part of being a dwarf.

===No water===

Healthy dwarves will not die of thirst as long as they have alcohol, which in the current version can be {{L|Brewing|brewed}} without the use of water. However, injured dwarves must be given water, not alcohol, or they will die of dehydration.

{{L|Rain}} will refill stagnant {{L|pool}}s of water slowly. In a hot {{L|climate}}, this may evaporate almost immediately. What's more, if the map is in a dry {{L|climate}}, such as a desert (hot or cold), then there can be long periods of time with no water anywhere - in extreme cases, none ever. Snow will not refill pools, so you can also have a lack of water in very cold {{L|climate}}s. Also, if weather has been turned off in the {{L|init.txt}} file then there will be no rain and no water will accumulate, though it may be there at the beginning of the game.

If all else fails, the {{L|caverns}} are bound to contain water somewhere, so you can put down a {{L|well}}. Watch out for {{L|Giant toad|other}} [[:Category:DF2010:Humanoids|sources]] {{L|Cave crocodile|of fun.}}

===Flooding accidents (aka "too much water")===

The opposite side of the dehydration spectrum is having too ''much'' water. Remember that water can {{L|flow}} in 10 directions (the 8 horizontal ones as well as up and down, to the level of its source.)

If your fortress is beginning to flood from {{L|Water#Sourced Water|sourced water}}, abandon all of the levels the water can reach immediately—creating a civilian alert and ordering your dwarves to a burrow upstairs. You will never be able to recover those areas unless you can manage to {{L|pump}} out the water faster than it floods in, which can take over a year or two of game time to establish a functioning automated pump system. Generally, a flooding accident spells doom for your fortress.

Sometimes, a fortress is flooded with {{L|magma}}. This is even more {{L|fun}}, and even harder to recover from. Any shut door will stop magma, it doesn't rise as aggressively (via {{L|pressure}}) as water, and magma can be {{L|pump}}ed out with the right equipment. Read up on it. Good luck.

=== Inability to mine (aka "no picks") ===

aka Diggor Mortis.

Diggor Mortis: ''when a Dorf with a pickaxe decides that digging where they shouldn't is a bloody good idea.''

Simply put, you need {{L|pick}}s to mine {{L|ore}}, which is then {{L|smelt}}ed to make {{L|metal}} for items like more picks. If you are careless (or ignorant) of how to dig safely, and your {{L|miner}}s create a {{L|cave-in|collapse}} or flood and their equipment gets lost/destroyed/unrecoverable, ''and'' you have no materials to make more picks, you will be at a severe handicap until the problem is solved. Any dwarf can be given the {{L|mining}} {{L|labor}}, but without a pick they can do nothing. There is no way to get new metals or stone for any purpose nor any way to dig new rooms/tunnels unless you have picks.

If you have {{L|ore}} or {{L|bar}}s to create a {{L|weapons-grade}} metal, and a {{L|forge}} (and {{L|smelter}} if you need one), you can create new picks and continue. You might get lucky with a dwarven {{L|caravan}} - elves and humans don't (ever?) offer picks. If the first dwarven caravan doesn't bring any, you can try to keep your fortress running long enough to request additional {{L|pick}}s from your Outpost {{L|Liaison}}, who will arrive with the next dwarven trade {{L|caravan}} in a year. Or you can {{L|abandon}} and try again.

If you have {{L|axe}}s and {{L|tree}}s available, then you can build {{L|construction|structure}}s, {{L|building}}s and {{L|furniture}} of {{L|wood}}, which is something.

Averting this fate is simple: stockpile at least one additional pick at the first possible opportunity, or some of the {{L|weapons-grade|raw material}} to make more, and away from current digging operations.

See also: {{L|Make your own weapons}}

===General Unhappiness===

Think it's no big deal to leave your dwarves with a mediocre {{L|dining room}}, no-{{L|quality}} bed and a generally inadequate fortress?

If there is little in a fortress to give your dwarves happy {{L|thoughts}} and enough to give them unhappy {{L|thoughts}}, then your dwarves will start to throw {{L|tantrum}}s, grow melancholy, and/or cause general chaos. In extreme (but sadly not ''rare'') examples, this can lead to a {{L|tantrum spiral}} and the loss of the entire fortress. Unhappiness is more likely to occur if your fortress is suffering other kinds of downfall, so try to keep all the bases covered.

Another problem is if you don't have a justice system in place at the time of a spiral and manage to recover. If you later implement the justice system, the hammer may kill the former tantrum throwers, starting another tantrum because of their deaths.

===Ambush===
Goblin and elven ambushes alike will charge into your fortress after they are discovered. They still retreat after suffering enough casualties. Goblins still arrive with caravans, and elves can attack at any time. Even if your dwarves do not venture onto the surface, caravans will eventually trigger the ambushes.

See Also:
:* {{L|Defense guide}}
:* {{L|Defense design}}
:* {{L|Trap design}}
:* {{L|Military design}}

===War===
(as above)

===Siege===
{{L|Siege}}s can be quite devastating to a fortress, but unlike most of the other ways of losing they are unlikely to occur early on, even if you do something stupid to piss off another civilization.

Should hosts of goblins besiege your gates and drive your peasantry inside, trolls beat down your doors and force you to seal off from the outside world, you may have already lost the game. Even if you have built an utterly impenetrable fortress with drawbridges and moats, siegers may stick around for a long time. Although a dwarven fortress can be made self-contained, with {{L|list of crops|crops}}, {{L|metal}} and {{L|fuel}} readily available, underground {{L|tree farm|wood source}} and your own {{L|livestock}}, a fortress may not sustain such a state indefinitely. For example, {{L|trade}} with the outside world has now been shut off, leaving you only what {{L|ore}}s are on your map for the production of mandate goods. In the (very) long run even those will run out. This can result in a breakdown of social order if you do not prevent your {{L|Hammerer}} from killing or maiming your dwarves. {{L|Shell}}, {{L|bone}}, and {{L|leather}} commonly acquired by {{L|hunting}} and {{L|fishing}} need to be supplied by previously established livestock and access to suitable water. If these resources are no longer available to your workers, moody {{L|craftsdwarf|craftsdwarves}} will be driven into suicide or worse. Rotten {{L|vermin}} {{L|corpse}}s begin to heap in your food supply, forcing you to dump these into inside {{L|refuse|refuse pile}}s, generating {{L|miasma}}. Unless an {{L|well|interior watersupply}} was established your wounded will die of dehydration.

With all these critical industries unproductive, dwarves dying, and friends mourning over the rotting heaps of slain loved ones, it's important to remember your dwarves have nothing to do but throw funeral receptions, grief counseling sessions, and the occasional keg stand. This means they've all become one big happy family of friends, manically depressed from the loss of any dwarf.

In short, the attacking army can simply wait until your dwarves emo themselves to death.

===HFS===
If you don't want {{L|Hidden Fun Stuff|spoilers}}, trust us: you'll ''know'' when you've found it.

{{Category|Guides}}

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Manual of Style

2010-04-24T14:36:35Z

KFK: /* Humor */

Discuss points of style, a few "threads" have been started to hit on some major issues. Please feel free to add new topics.
:Links to those threads would be helpful, since you're apparently referring to pre-existing discussions.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:34, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

== Spelling ==
Do we use British or American spellings? Whichever we use, we should at the least be consistent. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 04:14, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:No, we shouldn't. This is neither a specifically British nor American game, it's an ''international'' game and so an international site. The ''only'' time such spelling needs be consistent is when it matches (or conflicts with) a game-term, or such that it's consistent within a single page.

:I don't feel it's the job of the Admin to tell users to read and write either American or British exclusively, and thus alienate the other to any degree (however unintentionally that may be!). Quite the opposite, we should welcome all - [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#X|X is for Xeniality]]! More, it's no editor's job either - as that can lead to cultural edit wars and just plain, dull petty jingoism. I know that color and colour, flavour and flavor, and all the rest are the same - it's a wide, wide web - it's time we all get used to it. ; ) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:34, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
::By consistency, I was referring to how the game uses Armor, thus we probably shouldn't use Armour. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 05:47, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree. If the game says "Armor," then the page and all references to the concept should read "Armor," not "Armour." However, I don't think it's appropriate to get up in arms  about "Armour" if it's not referring to the in game concept -- this is a terrible example. Flavour, if it's written somewhere, does not deserve an armed attack on all instances of the word to change it to Flavor, nor vice versa, since they're not arms. Or something. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:40, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:Writing in English is hard enough for me. :) – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Kummahiih|Kummahiih]]
::::<nods> If the term is found on the [[armor]] page, then of course it should all match - as I said above. Likewise something's referring to armor as a game concept, the item "plate armor" for instance. But if a tangential line on the article on [[beak dog]]s reads something like "''they're dangerous, and can quickly mangle an unarmoured dwarf"'', there is no need (nor just reason) to change that. It's not referring to the game term, it's not linking to any page, it's simply referring to the abstract strategic concept, which is the same in either spelling. Slavish enforcement of spelling where it makes no diff is not the way to go. This wiki is not that rules-centric, and most users like it that way.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:09, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== Repetitive Intensifiers ==
Does "very, very yellow" offer any useful information over "very yellow"? [[User:Emi|Emi]] 04:14, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:Does asking this question offer any, any useful information over not asking? A rather specific question for a "Manual of Style", especially without a specific reference or more general point to be made. But I would hazard the guess that that particular editor found that particular phrasing both useful and mildly entertaining in that context - this wiki is not as sterile as some, nor as formal.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:34, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
::These questions were mainly a starting point, to give people an idea of the sort of things that we mean when we say 'style'. And you're right, it is very specific, but I think it's a decent thing to consider, along with the use of 'literally' as a generic intensifier, etc... [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 05:52, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:::I know what you're saying, but to try to regulate such would be a literally endless deathmarch. "Style" is personal, and some works and some doesn't, and some very cludgey stuff works when it shouldn't. I have a very wordy style, others have a very pithy, terse one, and neither is better or more or less "appropriate". Any literally unclear or broken usage will get cleaned up on its own without our enforcement, but very, very personal style should simply be overlooked so long as it works in context. (We have better things to do, really!) ; D --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:01, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Well, not right now I don't, EmiBot's current tagging job is going to take all night I think. She has to go to each page, load every link until she reaches a no page exception and then tag the page. She'll end up loading lots of pages per each actual page processed. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 06:06, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

== Humor ==
Does humor belong in informative articles? Where is humor acceptable? Is humor (or "humorous prose") within an article like [[40d:carp]] useful, or does it only serve to confuse and make solid information harder to find? [[User:Emi|Emi]] 04:14, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, depending. So long as the humour is ''either'' separate or clearly a side-product, it's fine. When a user decides to rewrite an article as their own stand-up routine, that's usually not acceptable. Adding the '''<nowiki>{{D for Dwarf}}</nowiki>''' template above a comedic rant is often acceptable, but not if the sole purpose seems to be for the amusement of the editor, rather than the reader, or if it's just not relevant. In the end, it's no diff than any other edit - some efforts are generally appreciated and accepted, and some are just "wrong-o".

:In short, you can't define it, you can only know it when you see it. But Carp, in specific, have a long and highly honoured history in DF culture. And cheese. And fire, and magma, and beards, and microcline, and elephants, and cats, and migrants, and nobles, and losing, and... --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:34, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
::I know that all those things have such a history, but if you're a new player reading the article on carp, you are very likely to be confused and come out unsure of what was solid info and what was hyperbole, or comedic. I think in general, the sort of stuff {{tl|D for Dwarf}} describes is what shouldn't be in informative articles, or at least not such a broad marking -- perhaps it would be better used in sections rather than at the top of an article like it often is placed? [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 05:56, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

:::Actually, the current community standards suggest that "Wit" be kept to a minimum. Missed that.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:09, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Having discovered this game only a year ago I'd like to say that '''every single inside joke''' on this wiki was both entertaining and part of the game experience. I relied on this wiki so much I even feel stranded a bit. Mark it with D-for Dwarf template for it to be found and I think that everything will be fine. My two cents. [[Special:Contributions/90.191.16.52|90.191.16.52]] 19:26, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
::::As another person who has recently found Dwarf Fortress and the wiki, I love the D-for Dwarf stuff. It provides a clue to what other players consider interesting or historic for the game, and usually gives some information on how the topic of that article can provide 'fun'.--[[Special:Contributions/66.207.88.49|66.207.88.49]] 11:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

:::When I first picked up DF about two years ago, I distinctly remember actually using the D for Dwarf category as my primary point of navigation through the wiki, and several times lamenting the lack of further pages in that style. Much of the flavor of the game comes from the (frequently absurd) conclusions that the player base draws from observed behavior, quirks and bugs. Generally it is easier to come to grips with the fact that your fortress has crumbled to an end after an out-of-control fire incident when you are able to chuckle to yourself about dwarfs who think there's nothing about a glowing !!sock!! that isn't totally cool and worthy of being stored in their wooden chests. Take that away and (unless our hypothetical new player is able to independently reach the same conclusion) and all you have is yet another reason to be annoyed that the game is still in alpha. --[[User:Johntor|Johntor]] 19:46, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

::It should be fairly easy to distinguish fact from hyperbole/rant etc. if you use the '''<nowiki>{{D for Dwarf}}</nowiki>''' tag correctly though, for example, adding the 'humorous' bit at the bottom of a page, preceded by the tag. If used correctly, I believe it's acceptable. I started playing after the carp days, and still found those types of articles hilarious. --[[User:Ramperkash|Ramperkash]]
::: The occasional humorous bits included in the wiki here have always been one of my favorite things about dwarf fortress. I would be very sad if these were removed from the wiki. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:53, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:I don't think (hope not) that anyone is going to delete "all humour" - that would be lame indeed. But there are recent examples where some self-appointed site Wit has added reams of quips into an article - and that's just not going to work very often. The yardstick, I think, is multifold: 1) will it muddy/confuse the facts to a newbie? And/or is the humour "funny" to the Users as a whole? It's not like the Quotes page where if one person likes it then it's pretty much there to stay. Just as with any style, it's subject to editing.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:50, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:Perhaps we should revise the D for Dwarf template so it boxes in the D for Dwarf material? Such as <nowiki>{{D for Dwarf|My Funny Jokes About Plumbers Here}}</nowiki> -- that way we still have our humor, but we make it significantly obvious what is meant as silliness and what is serious / factual. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:36, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
::If you can get it to work (style-wise) on [[40d:carp]] and [[40d:fire]], then I think you've got a winner. (Those are two of the more "muddied" articles I can think of.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:12, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:I believe humour has it's place on the DF wiki. That place is not everywhere, but it's definitely in the [[40d:carp]] article. I can't think of any hard rules on where humour is appropriate, but I'd say if the subject is a major source of [[Fun]] then it's probably okay. A more mundane subject like [[Well]] is probably best left completely straight. [[User:KFK|KFK]] 14:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

== Page Format ==
We should have some sort of general format for pages, so that like-information appears consistently in the same spots on different pages. This might be a little harder to figure out. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 04:14, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:We currently do within like pages. Every creature, every stone, every workshop, every skill... um... pro'ly some other stuff, is parallel. Truly parallel items ( [[40d:armor piece]], [[40d:trade good]]s ) are grouped under a single umbrella article, and some (like [[40d:gem]]) even listed in a table. If an editor gets excited and confident, they can suggest/establish a format for a new category of page. But a stone and a workshop do not have the same sort of information that needs to be communicated, so trying to establish a single format for all seems counter-productive.

:When formating a page, you want:
:* A clear Intro (if the article is long).
:* '''Bold key words''' - anything that redirects to that article should be clearly noticeable early in the article. If in a lower section, mention it and add an internal subsection link.
:* Use a Table of Contents if necessary
:* Use graphics - tables, images, templates - ''especially'' if templates exist for that page type! (spec creatures, workshops, etc.)
:: --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:34, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

:::Along the same lines, I think it might be good to look at how some of the existing templates are designed. Specifically [[Template:Buildings]], [[Template:Creatures]] and [[Template:Workshops]] to name a few. Buildings and Creatures are both large (maybe excessively so) and none of them seem to follow the same formatting rules. I would be happy to play around with it, but I'm much more of a 'code' person rather than a 'style' person, so I'm not sure what would be a good way to reformat them. Any thoughts?--[[User:Soy|Soy]] 00:12, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
::::"Creatures", for one, is going to need a work-over, as constants in 40d seem to have become variables in 31.01 - let me cogitate on it, I'll leave this page open and get back to you on it.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:01, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::I'm confused on the "constants in 40d seem to have become variables" comment. Could you clarify please? --[[User:Soy|Soy]] 21:00, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::Re creatures? Did you play the prev version? There are only a few "constants" in a creature's template - most answer "what do you get when you butcher one?" Used to be 100% predictable - now it seems highly ''un''predictable. Meat, fat - even bones. Look at any cv creature page - [[dragon]], for instance - see all those ? marks? ''That's'' what I mean.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:50, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::That's what I wanted to clear up: you're talking about [[Template:CreatureInfo]] and I'm talking about [[Template:Creatures]]. I was thinking it would make sense to break it up into sub-templates for the categories contained in [[:Category:Creatures]] e.g.: one for humanoids, animals, megabeasts, etc. For [[Template:CreatureInfo]] (the one you were considering) it would be an extremely simple process to remove those static links and allow each editor to propagate them with whatever is appropriate, maybe even a range of numbers? I'm not really sure as I wasn't considering that particular area, sorry. --[[User:Soy|Soy]] 04:39, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:Oh - ''that!'' Yeah, no doubt - we'll need a new template, since the redirects go to diff creature articles. The style format should relate to how we present diff creature articles - the [[creature]] page is not to my satisfaction, and it's all inter-related. "Humanoids"? Aren't some animals half/half? In-game distinctions might be best, sim to how they're listed in the RAW's - "domestic animals" is one from 40d, and so on. Easier to list, too, since only one RAW file needs to be addressed at a time. Other approaches are certainly valid and possible.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:52, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== Image Use ==
Where should we use images, and how should we include them (where on a page)? [[User:Emi|Emi]] 04:14, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:Wherever they are helpful, and however they look best. Again, no single rule fits all. On the right, usually (but not always), and matched up with relevant text as much as possible. Thumbnailed down to a reasonable size (big enough to be visible/useful - if still too big, then that requires either a new pic or a text that encourages the user to "click to expand").

:The guidelines for image use are simple:
:* Use .PNG format.
:* Use one of the default graphics packages, the tileset or ascii. ''(Note that the Mayday download is NOT one of these!)''
:* Use the default [[colour scheme]].
:* Make it look good.
:* No copyrighted material, etc etc.
:That's it.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:34, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

::No copyrighted material, is a hard thing to do though. Because in theory, any screenshots of the game are considered copyrighted, or are at the very least, in a very gray zone. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 05:53, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

:::I assume it means no material that cannot be freely reproduced, i.e, either you own the copyright or it is under a creative commons license, etc. --[[User:Bombcar|Bombcar]] 20:11, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Let's please NOT get into an amateur discussion of copyright laws. Put 50 experienced copyright lawyers in a room, and you'll have ''more'' than 50 opinions on what the law actually states for any particular situation - and we're amateurs, and from different nations with diff laws, and this is international and national issues. Common practice is that screenshots are kosher on this wiki. And we can leave it at that.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:09, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::Actually, this is something we need to discuss. in the US, any images of a copyrighted game are considered copyright by the holder of the game's copyright. All we can claim is fair use, which is fine -- I doubt Toady One is going to sue us for using DF images. The other consideration is that of tilesets: the creators of the tilesets still hold exclusive copyright unless they release it into the public domain or into a free license. This brings up international considerations, however; some countries do not allow a author to release material into the public domain, and others allow third parties to pursue litigation and compensation on behalf of the copyright holder. So, in summary, we can require that images are released into the public domain AND a free license, or just a free license if they are not images of the game itself; otherwise, we have to require that the image is fair use for the topic at hand. Alternatively, we could request that Toady One loosens his license in regards to screenshots of the game. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 22:40, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

== Handling template breaking of redirects? ==

<s>How do we want to handle this? For example, {{L|Furnace Operator}} doesn't work; nor does {{L|pearlash}} - you have to use {{L|ash|pearlash}} to get it to go to the right place. Note that these examples don't work on this page; see [[40d:kiln]] for examples.</s> --[[User:Bombcar|Bombcar]] 17:56, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:''(This is not a style question - reposting on Current Events.)''--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:09, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

== Vanity articles ==

What to do about pages like [[Asax|this]], which have no value to the game or to any other player, only to the one player (or a very few at most)? Almost like a [[bloodline]] page. On one hand, not hurting anything, ''and'' it's good practice if that editor ever wants to actually contribute something, you know, "useful". But on the other, it is hurting, because it's more bandwidth for the next version change. Meh. Maybe just not worth the trouble to worry about either way, cost/benefit-wise. Thoughts?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:16, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:I was actually thinking about this the other day but didn't know where to discuss it. I'm all for a Community Legends category or something similar, as I believe there's a [[Cacame_Awemedinade|Cacame]] page, [[Tholtig]], [[Morul]], and I imagine Ironblood or Nist Akath will get their own page sooner or later considering their massive reputation. Obviously we'd have to watch for people arbitrarily adding tons of stuff, but I'm certainly not against it so long as it's patrolled and kept 'rare' so to speak. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 01:33, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:Oh, and for reference, the Asax page spawned from [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=52295.90 here]. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 01:42, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::This page exists and can exist for the same reason that [[Boatmurdered]] can have a page. The community decides that some things are epic - those things become community lore and thus part of the meta-game. This is the kind of thing that the D is for Dwarf tag is for. (Also, no extra bandwidth because he should remain unversioned, and thus never need to be moved). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:29, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:::While there's nothing inherently unacceptable about vanity articles, and the occasional well written vanity article now and then can be a good thing (within reason), well... the Asax article in particular is just not very good. There's nothing there that's extraordinarily interesting, and there's certainly no actual content worthy of including on the wiki. It needs to be either significantly expanded (if there even is any more material to expand it with - I've not yet read the forum thread), or else deleted entirely. And I'm leaning distinctly towards the latter, as it stands. This article feels to me like the aforementioned "arbitrarily adding tons of stuff", and that's certainly not something to be encouraged. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 09:04, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Well, it seems these are natural expansions from the [[forums]] - an area that I've largely dropped due to time constraints, and so remain (blissfully?) ignorant of. And even then, some of the subforums were always of far less interest than others for me, or for any reader. Unfortunately, there is no fair-handed way to legislate what is "interesting" and what is not. When [[planepacked]] hit the wiki, I was bored beyond description - someone had a glitch in their game (or maybe abused the hell out an exploit for personal bragging rights), so effin what?! But here we are. So, looks like they stay, and the only option is to add <nowiki>{{D for Dwarf}}</nowiki> and/or edit them so they read better. : \ --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:02, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

== in-article Capitalization ==

Articles are all capitalized - but that doesn't mean that they're all Capitalized. In an article, we should refer to a dwarf's [[armor]], not to their [[Armor]]. This gets exceptionally annoying in, for example, lists of plants, like [[Plump helmet]]s and [[Pig tail]]s, but also when suddenly [[Gold]] appears as if it's become some sort of sports team, or perhaps we're referring to someone's lawyer by last name. Even the "see also" at the bottom of a page? Altho' on one level it just doesn't matter, it reinforces that capitalization twitch. For example:

:'''See Also:'''
:*[[DF2010:Plaster powder|Plaster powder]]

vs.

:'''See Also:'''
:*[[DF2010:Plaster powder|plaster powder]]

I'd rather use the latter. It's not a proper noun (not even as an article name), and we're not speaking German (which does capitalize random nouns).--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

:Links should be capitalized according to standard grammatical practices. So don't link [[Like this]], link [[like this]]. [[Of course]], if the word should be capitalized, like if it's at the start of a sentence, capitalize it. Proper nouns, like [[Urist]] or [[Toady]], should of course also be capitalized. Plant names aren't proper, unless it's the plump helmet Vendorblood the Menace of Crafting, and so shouldn't be capitalized.

:Since we can't have any simple rules, though, I think your '''See also''' example should be the former. Items in a list are treated grammatically like a sentence, and a '''See also''' section is a list of other articles to visit, even if it's only one item long. So it should be
:*[[DF2010:Plaster powder|Plaster powder]]
: not
:*[[DF2010:Plaster powder|Plaster Powder]]
: or
:*[[DF2010:Plaster powder|plaster powder]]
: or, god forbid,
:*[[DF2010:Plaster powder|plaster Powder]].

:Also to further complicate things and draw this conversation into areas it probably shouldn't go, section headers should only have the first word capitalized, so it should be '''See also''', not '''See Also'''. This is neither here nor there, however, and is just a rule I picked up from Wikipedia. In general, I defer to Wikipedia practices when editing any wiki, since that's kind of the norm. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 21:43, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

:It's generally considered correct for bulletted/numbered lists and tabular data to be capitalised. Obviously, if people are capitalising article titles in non-lists, or in in-line lists within a sentence then that isn't correct. But for the specific example you gave, the correct capitalisation would be:

:'''See also:'''
:[[DF2010:Plaster powder|Plaster powder]]

:--[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

User:KFK

2010-04-24T14:31:42Z

KFK: Created page with 'My hobbies include Dwarf Fortress. But you knew that.'

My hobbies include Dwarf Fortress.

But you knew that.

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Manual of Style

2010-04-24T14:28:11Z

KFK: /* Humor */

Discuss points of style, a few "threads" have been started to hit on some major issues. Please feel free to add new topics.
:Links to those threads would be helpful, since you're apparently referring to pre-existing discussions.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:34, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

== Spelling ==
Do we use British or American spellings? Whichever we use, we should at the least be consistent. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 04:14, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:No, we shouldn't. This is neither a specifically British nor American game, it's an ''international'' game and so an international site. The ''only'' time such spelling needs be consistent is when it matches (or conflicts with) a game-term, or such that it's consistent within a single page.

:I don't feel it's the job of the Admin to tell users to read and write either American or British exclusively, and thus alienate the other to any degree (however unintentionally that may be!). Quite the opposite, we should welcome all - [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#X|X is for Xeniality]]! More, it's no editor's job either - as that can lead to cultural edit wars and just plain, dull petty jingoism. I know that color and colour, flavour and flavor, and all the rest are the same - it's a wide, wide web - it's time we all get used to it. ; ) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:34, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
::By consistency, I was referring to how the game uses Armor, thus we probably shouldn't use Armour. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 05:47, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree. If the game says "Armor," then the page and all references to the concept should read "Armor," not "Armour." However, I don't think it's appropriate to get up in arms  about "Armour" if it's not referring to the in game concept -- this is a terrible example. Flavour, if it's written somewhere, does not deserve an armed attack on all instances of the word to change it to Flavor, nor vice versa, since they're not arms. Or something. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:40, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:Writing in English is hard enough for me. :) – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Kummahiih|Kummahiih]]
::::<nods> If the term is found on the [[armor]] page, then of course it should all match - as I said above. Likewise something's referring to armor as a game concept, the item "plate armor" for instance. But if a tangential line on the article on [[beak dog]]s reads something like "''they're dangerous, and can quickly mangle an unarmoured dwarf"'', there is no need (nor just reason) to change that. It's not referring to the game term, it's not linking to any page, it's simply referring to the abstract strategic concept, which is the same in either spelling. Slavish enforcement of spelling where it makes no diff is not the way to go. This wiki is not that rules-centric, and most users like it that way.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:09, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== Repetitive Intensifiers ==
Does "very, very yellow" offer any useful information over "very yellow"? [[User:Emi|Emi]] 04:14, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:Does asking this question offer any, any useful information over not asking? A rather specific question for a "Manual of Style", especially without a specific reference or more general point to be made. But I would hazard the guess that that particular editor found that particular phrasing both useful and mildly entertaining in that context - this wiki is not as sterile as some, nor as formal.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:34, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
::These questions were mainly a starting point, to give people an idea of the sort of things that we mean when we say 'style'. And you're right, it is very specific, but I think it's a decent thing to consider, along with the use of 'literally' as a generic intensifier, etc... [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 05:52, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:::I know what you're saying, but to try to regulate such would be a literally endless deathmarch. "Style" is personal, and some works and some doesn't, and some very cludgey stuff works when it shouldn't. I have a very wordy style, others have a very pithy, terse one, and neither is better or more or less "appropriate". Any literally unclear or broken usage will get cleaned up on its own without our enforcement, but very, very personal style should simply be overlooked so long as it works in context. (We have better things to do, really!) ; D --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:01, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Well, not right now I don't, EmiBot's current tagging job is going to take all night I think. She has to go to each page, load every link until she reaches a no page exception and then tag the page. She'll end up loading lots of pages per each actual page processed. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 06:06, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

== Humor ==
Does humor belong in informative articles? Where is humor acceptable? Is humor (or "humorous prose") within an article like [[40d:carp]] useful, or does it only serve to confuse and make solid information harder to find? [[User:Emi|Emi]] 04:14, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, depending. So long as the humour is ''either'' separate or clearly a side-product, it's fine. When a user decides to rewrite an article as their own stand-up routine, that's usually not acceptable. Adding the '''<nowiki>{{D for Dwarf}}</nowiki>''' template above a comedic rant is often acceptable, but not if the sole purpose seems to be for the amusement of the editor, rather than the reader, or if it's just not relevant. In the end, it's no diff than any other edit - some efforts are generally appreciated and accepted, and some are just "wrong-o".

:In short, you can't define it, you can only know it when you see it. But Carp, in specific, have a long and highly honoured history in DF culture. And cheese. And fire, and magma, and beards, and microcline, and elephants, and cats, and migrants, and nobles, and losing, and... --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:34, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
::I know that all those things have such a history, but if you're a new player reading the article on carp, you are very likely to be confused and come out unsure of what was solid info and what was hyperbole, or comedic. I think in general, the sort of stuff {{tl|D for Dwarf}} describes is what shouldn't be in informative articles, or at least not such a broad marking -- perhaps it would be better used in sections rather than at the top of an article like it often is placed? [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 05:56, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

:::Actually, the current community standards suggest that "Wit" be kept to a minimum. Missed that.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:09, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Having discovered this game only a year ago I'd like to say that '''every single inside joke''' on this wiki was both entertaining and part of the game experience. I relied on this wiki so much I even feel stranded a bit. Mark it with D-for Dwarf template for it to be found and I think that everything will be fine. My two cents. [[Special:Contributions/90.191.16.52|90.191.16.52]] 19:26, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
::::As another person who has recently found Dwarf Fortress and the wiki, I love the D-for Dwarf stuff. It provides a clue to what other players consider interesting or historic for the game, and usually gives some information on how the topic of that article can provide 'fun'.--[[Special:Contributions/66.207.88.49|66.207.88.49]] 11:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

:::When I first picked up DF about two years ago, I distinctly remember actually using the D for Dwarf category as my primary point of navigation through the wiki, and several times lamenting the lack of further pages in that style. Much of the flavor of the game comes from the (frequently absurd) conclusions that the player base draws from observed behavior, quirks and bugs. Generally it is easier to come to grips with the fact that your fortress has crumbled to an end after an out-of-control fire incident when you are able to chuckle to yourself about dwarfs who think there's nothing about a glowing !!sock!! that isn't totally cool and worthy of being stored in their wooden chests. Take that away and (unless our hypothetical new player is able to independently reach the same conclusion) and all you have is yet another reason to be annoyed that the game is still in alpha. --[[User:Johntor|Johntor]] 19:46, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

::It should be fairly easy to distinguish fact from hyperbole/rant etc. if you use the '''<nowiki>{{D for Dwarf}}</nowiki>''' tag correctly though, for example, adding the 'humorous' bit at the bottom of a page, preceded by the tag. If used correctly, I believe it's acceptable. I started playing after the carp days, and still found those types of articles hilarious. --[[User:Ramperkash|Ramperkash]]
::: The occasional humorous bits included in the wiki here have always been one of my favorite things about dwarf fortress. I would be very sad if these were removed from the wiki. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 01:53, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:I don't think (hope not) that anyone is going to delete "all humour" - that would be lame indeed. But there are recent examples where some self-appointed site Wit has added reams of quips into an article - and that's just not going to work very often. The yardstick, I think, is multifold: 1) will it muddy/confuse the facts to a newbie? And/or is the humour "funny" to the Users as a whole? It's not like the Quotes page where if one person likes it then it's pretty much there to stay. Just as with any style, it's subject to editing.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:50, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:Perhaps we should revise the D for Dwarf template so it boxes in the D for Dwarf material? Such as <nowiki>{{D for Dwarf|My Funny Jokes About Plumbers Here}}</nowiki> -- that way we still have our humor, but we make it significantly obvious what is meant as silliness and what is serious / factual. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:36, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
::If you can get it to work (style-wise) on [[40d:carp]] and [[40d:fire]], then I think you've got a winner. (Those are two of the more "muddied" articles I can think of.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:12, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:I believe humour has it's place on the DF wiki. That place is not everywhere, but it's definitely in the carp article. I can't think of any hard rules on where humour is appropriate, but I'd say if the subject is a major source of [[Fun]] then it's probably okay. A more mundane subject like [[Well]] is probably best left completely straight. [[User:KFK|KFK]] 14:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

== Page Format ==
We should have some sort of general format for pages, so that like-information appears consistently in the same spots on different pages. This might be a little harder to figure out. [[User:Emi|Emi]] 04:14, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:We currently do within like pages. Every creature, every stone, every workshop, every skill... um... pro'ly some other stuff, is parallel. Truly parallel items ( [[40d:armor piece]], [[40d:trade good]]s ) are grouped under a single umbrella article, and some (like [[40d:gem]]) even listed in a table. If an editor gets excited and confident, they can suggest/establish a format for a new category of page. But a stone and a workshop do not have the same sort of information that needs to be communicated, so trying to establish a single format for all seems counter-productive.

:When formating a page, you want:
:* A clear Intro (if the article is long).
:* '''Bold key words''' - anything that redirects to that article should be clearly noticeable early in the article. If in a lower section, mention it and add an internal subsection link.
:* Use a Table of Contents if necessary
:* Use graphics - tables, images, templates - ''especially'' if templates exist for that page type! (spec creatures, workshops, etc.)
:: --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:34, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

:::Along the same lines, I think it might be good to look at how some of the existing templates are designed. Specifically [[Template:Buildings]], [[Template:Creatures]] and [[Template:Workshops]] to name a few. Buildings and Creatures are both large (maybe excessively so) and none of them seem to follow the same formatting rules. I would be happy to play around with it, but I'm much more of a 'code' person rather than a 'style' person, so I'm not sure what would be a good way to reformat them. Any thoughts?--[[User:Soy|Soy]] 00:12, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
::::"Creatures", for one, is going to need a work-over, as constants in 40d seem to have become variables in 31.01 - let me cogitate on it, I'll leave this page open and get back to you on it.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:01, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::I'm confused on the "constants in 40d seem to have become variables" comment. Could you clarify please? --[[User:Soy|Soy]] 21:00, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::Re creatures? Did you play the prev version? There are only a few "constants" in a creature's template - most answer "what do you get when you butcher one?" Used to be 100% predictable - now it seems highly ''un''predictable. Meat, fat - even bones. Look at any cv creature page - [[dragon]], for instance - see all those ? marks? ''That's'' what I mean.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 02:50, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::That's what I wanted to clear up: you're talking about [[Template:CreatureInfo]] and I'm talking about [[Template:Creatures]]. I was thinking it would make sense to break it up into sub-templates for the categories contained in [[:Category:Creatures]] e.g.: one for humanoids, animals, megabeasts, etc. For [[Template:CreatureInfo]] (the one you were considering) it would be an extremely simple process to remove those static links and allow each editor to propagate them with whatever is appropriate, maybe even a range of numbers? I'm not really sure as I wasn't considering that particular area, sorry. --[[User:Soy|Soy]] 04:39, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:Oh - ''that!'' Yeah, no doubt - we'll need a new template, since the redirects go to diff creature articles. The style format should relate to how we present diff creature articles - the [[creature]] page is not to my satisfaction, and it's all inter-related. "Humanoids"? Aren't some animals half/half? In-game distinctions might be best, sim to how they're listed in the RAW's - "domestic animals" is one from 40d, and so on. Easier to list, too, since only one RAW file needs to be addressed at a time. Other approaches are certainly valid and possible.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:52, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== Image Use ==
Where should we use images, and how should we include them (where on a page)? [[User:Emi|Emi]] 04:14, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:Wherever they are helpful, and however they look best. Again, no single rule fits all. On the right, usually (but not always), and matched up with relevant text as much as possible. Thumbnailed down to a reasonable size (big enough to be visible/useful - if still too big, then that requires either a new pic or a text that encourages the user to "click to expand").

:The guidelines for image use are simple:
:* Use .PNG format.
:* Use one of the default graphics packages, the tileset or ascii. ''(Note that the Mayday download is NOT one of these!)''
:* Use the default [[colour scheme]].
:* Make it look good.
:* No copyrighted material, etc etc.
:That's it.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:34, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

::No copyrighted material, is a hard thing to do though. Because in theory, any screenshots of the game are considered copyrighted, or are at the very least, in a very gray zone. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 05:53, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

:::I assume it means no material that cannot be freely reproduced, i.e, either you own the copyright or it is under a creative commons license, etc. --[[User:Bombcar|Bombcar]] 20:11, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Let's please NOT get into an amateur discussion of copyright laws. Put 50 experienced copyright lawyers in a room, and you'll have ''more'' than 50 opinions on what the law actually states for any particular situation - and we're amateurs, and from different nations with diff laws, and this is international and national issues. Common practice is that screenshots are kosher on this wiki. And we can leave it at that.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:09, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::Actually, this is something we need to discuss. in the US, any images of a copyrighted game are considered copyright by the holder of the game's copyright. All we can claim is fair use, which is fine -- I doubt Toady One is going to sue us for using DF images. The other consideration is that of tilesets: the creators of the tilesets still hold exclusive copyright unless they release it into the public domain or into a free license. This brings up international considerations, however; some countries do not allow a author to release material into the public domain, and others allow third parties to pursue litigation and compensation on behalf of the copyright holder. So, in summary, we can require that images are released into the public domain AND a free license, or just a free license if they are not images of the game itself; otherwise, we have to require that the image is fair use for the topic at hand. Alternatively, we could request that Toady One loosens his license in regards to screenshots of the game. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 22:40, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

== Handling template breaking of redirects? ==

<s>How do we want to handle this? For example, {{L|Furnace Operator}} doesn't work; nor does {{L|pearlash}} - you have to use {{L|ash|pearlash}} to get it to go to the right place. Note that these examples don't work on this page; see [[40d:kiln]] for examples.</s> --[[User:Bombcar|Bombcar]] 17:56, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
:''(This is not a style question - reposting on Current Events.)''--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:09, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

== Vanity articles ==

What to do about pages like [[Asax|this]], which have no value to the game or to any other player, only to the one player (or a very few at most)? Almost like a [[bloodline]] page. On one hand, not hurting anything, ''and'' it's good practice if that editor ever wants to actually contribute something, you know, "useful". But on the other, it is hurting, because it's more bandwidth for the next version change. Meh. Maybe just not worth the trouble to worry about either way, cost/benefit-wise. Thoughts?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:16, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:I was actually thinking about this the other day but didn't know where to discuss it. I'm all for a Community Legends category or something similar, as I believe there's a [[Cacame_Awemedinade|Cacame]] page, [[Tholtig]], [[Morul]], and I imagine Ironblood or Nist Akath will get their own page sooner or later considering their massive reputation. Obviously we'd have to watch for people arbitrarily adding tons of stuff, but I'm certainly not against it so long as it's patrolled and kept 'rare' so to speak. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 01:33, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:Oh, and for reference, the Asax page spawned from [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=52295.90 here]. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 01:42, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::This page exists and can exist for the same reason that [[Boatmurdered]] can have a page. The community decides that some things are epic - those things become community lore and thus part of the meta-game. This is the kind of thing that the D is for Dwarf tag is for. (Also, no extra bandwidth because he should remain unversioned, and thus never need to be moved). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:29, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:::While there's nothing inherently unacceptable about vanity articles, and the occasional well written vanity article now and then can be a good thing (within reason), well... the Asax article in particular is just not very good. There's nothing there that's extraordinarily interesting, and there's certainly no actual content worthy of including on the wiki. It needs to be either significantly expanded (if there even is any more material to expand it with - I've not yet read the forum thread), or else deleted entirely. And I'm leaning distinctly towards the latter, as it stands. This article feels to me like the aforementioned "arbitrarily adding tons of stuff", and that's certainly not something to be encouraged. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 09:04, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Well, it seems these are natural expansions from the [[forums]] - an area that I've largely dropped due to time constraints, and so remain (blissfully?) ignorant of. And even then, some of the subforums were always of far less interest than others for me, or for any reader. Unfortunately, there is no fair-handed way to legislate what is "interesting" and what is not. When [[planepacked]] hit the wiki, I was bored beyond description - someone had a glitch in their game (or maybe abused the hell out an exploit for personal bragging rights), so effin what?! But here we are. So, looks like they stay, and the only option is to add <nowiki>{{D for Dwarf}}</nowiki> and/or edit them so they read better. : \ --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:02, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

== in-article Capitalization ==

Articles are all capitalized - but that doesn't mean that they're all Capitalized. In an article, we should refer to a dwarf's [[armor]], not to their [[Armor]]. This gets exceptionally annoying in, for example, lists of plants, like [[Plump helmet]]s and [[Pig tail]]s, but also when suddenly [[Gold]] appears as if it's become some sort of sports team, or perhaps we're referring to someone's lawyer by last name. Even the "see also" at the bottom of a page? Altho' on one level it just doesn't matter, it reinforces that capitalization twitch. For example:

:'''See Also:'''
:*[[DF2010:Plaster powder|Plaster powder]]

vs.

:'''See Also:'''
:*[[DF2010:Plaster powder|plaster powder]]

I'd rather use the latter. It's not a proper noun (not even as an article name), and we're not speaking German (which does capitalize random nouns).--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

:Links should be capitalized according to standard grammatical practices. So don't link [[Like this]], link [[like this]]. [[Of course]], if the word should be capitalized, like if it's at the start of a sentence, capitalize it. Proper nouns, like [[Urist]] or [[Toady]], should of course also be capitalized. Plant names aren't proper, unless it's the plump helmet Vendorblood the Menace of Crafting, and so shouldn't be capitalized.

:Since we can't have any simple rules, though, I think your '''See also''' example should be the former. Items in a list are treated grammatically like a sentence, and a '''See also''' section is a list of other articles to visit, even if it's only one item long. So it should be
:*[[DF2010:Plaster powder|Plaster powder]]
: not
:*[[DF2010:Plaster powder|Plaster Powder]]
: or
:*[[DF2010:Plaster powder|plaster powder]]
: or, god forbid,
:*[[DF2010:Plaster powder|plaster Powder]].

:Also to further complicate things and draw this conversation into areas it probably shouldn't go, section headers should only have the first word capitalized, so it should be '''See also''', not '''See Also'''. This is neither here nor there, however, and is just a rule I picked up from Wikipedia. In general, I defer to Wikipedia practices when editing any wiki, since that's kind of the norm. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 21:43, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

:It's generally considered correct for bulletted/numbered lists and tabular data to be capitalised. Obviously, if people are capitalising article titles in non-lists, or in in-line lists within a sentence then that isn't correct. But for the specific example you gave, the correct capitalisation would be:

:'''See also:'''
:[[DF2010:Plaster powder|Plaster powder]]

:--[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

40d:Armorsmith

2009-10-10T17:32:25Z

KFK: /* Training armorsmiths */ added a reminder not to melt masterpieces during training.

{{Skill
| color = #444
| skill = Armorsmith
| speciality = Armorsmith
| profession = [[Metalsmith]]
| job name = Armoring
| tasks =
* Forge [[armor]]
| workshop =
* [[Metalsmith's forge]]
* [[Magma forge]]
}}
The '''armorsmith''' skill is used to make all [[metal]] [[armor]] and [[shields]] at a [[metalsmith's forge]] (or [[magma forge]]). The corresponding [[labor]] is '''armoring'''.

Like all artisans in Dwarf Fortress, skilled armorsmiths make armor more quickly, and of a higher [[quality]], than unskilled dwarves. The higher the quality of armor, the more damage it can block, which helps to minimize [[sparring]] injuries and casualties in [[combat]]. A [[legendary]]+5 armorsmith is potentially the most valuable dwarf any fortress could hope to have. This makes armorsmith skill a very popular choice in [[starting builds]].

== Training armorsmiths ==

To train an armorsmith to legendary (or legendary+5, better still), you must have him or her make hundreds of pieces of armor. Use [[copper]] for this (or [[bronze]], if you have ample [[cassiterite]]: save your precious steel or iron for after the training is done (though you may opt to make a few steel suits early on for your soldiers to wear).

These hundreds of pieces of armor will rapidly [[clutter]] the forge, greatly slowing down the smithy's progress. To keep up with a high-skill armorsmith, you must employ several full-time [[hauling|haulers]] to clear out the shop: either item haulers, to drag the pieces to nearby armor [[stockpile]]s, or refuse haulers, to drag the items to a nearby [[dump]]. (Dumping, however, requires periodically redesignating the area over the forge ({{k|d}}-{{k|b}}-{{k|d}}) in order to mark its contents for dumping.) Setting up several forges and having the smithy move from one to the next when they get cluttered works well in concert with multiple haulers. You can also employ a spare metalsmith of any sort to keep destroying and rebuilding the forges to clear them out.

Making one piece of armor grants 30 [[experience]] points, regardless of how many metal [[bars]] it takes to create. Therefore, you should train your armorsmiths on pieces of armor that take only one bar to create (helms, caps, shields, bucklers, gauntlets, boots, and leggings). If you wish to recover the metal used to make these items (via [[melt]]ing), you should make chain [[leggings]], which have a 50% recovery rate, higher than that of other armor items. Care should be taken not to melt [[masterpiece]] leggings your smith might create during training, as this can cause him or her a VERY bad [[thought]]. Consider making a separate stockpile for such high quality items.

== Trading off armor ==
You may also opt to [[trade]] the armor to [[merchant]]s. In order to determine what type of armor would be best for export, take the "Value / (Weight x Bars Used)" value in the below table, and multiply it by the percentage offered in any [[trade agreement]]s you have active. Produce the type of armor with the highest result. The reasoning behind this is the weight limit of goods traders can carry when they leave (plus hauling to depot will be a little faster).

{| cellpadding="2" border="1"
|-
! Armor
! Value / (Weight x Bars Used)
|-
| Low Boot
| 2
|-
| High Boot
| 1.5
|-
| Cap
| 1.5
|-
| Gauntlet
| 1.2
|-
| Helm
| 0.75
|-
| Buckler
| 0.667
|-
| Chain Mail
| 0.625
|-
| Leggings
| 0.375
|-
| Shield
| 0.3
|-
| Greaves
| 0.25
|-
| Plate Mail
| 0.222
|-
|}

In addition to training an armorsmith the hard way, you can try to boost your chances of getting a legendary armorsmith via a [[strange mood]] by having your peasants and other dwarves without "moodable" skills construct a single item of armor. This will give them dabbling skill in armorsmithing, and will cause them to become legendary+1 armorsmiths should they have a fey or secretive mood (but not a possession). A moody armorsmith will always create some form of [[artifact]] armor, often of incredible value. (It is unclear what the armor multiplier is for "[[Quality#Quality_grades|artifact quality]]" armor, but it is ''at least'' masterpiece, x2.0.

{{Skills}}
[[Category:Skills]]
[[Category:Jobs]]