Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d Talk:Noble

2009-11-08T23:24:40Z

Laranto: /* Nobles: Now usefull */ new section

== Nobles affected by Reclaiming? ==

My current fortress is a reclaimed one, due to a fire that got into one of my guardtowers' food storage. In the old fortress, I had managed to get a Baron, who was soon skipping right up to Duke and Incoming king after a couple of immigrants. Well, after reclaiming, I proceeded as normal, except, even though my value is still incredibly high from the fortress (1 million+ created wealth, and 400k exported, now), I recieved a count within it's specified area of requirement, but not the Baron before. Even still, My Count does not seem to be upgrading to Duke anytime soon, seeing as I have 188 dwarves, now. Anyone have any ideas, now? [[User:Jwguy|Jwguy]] 12:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

== Noble Additions and Requirements ==

Added the dungeon keeper noble. He just showed up at my fort in year 1053. --[[Idles]]

I'm "fixing" the change, "16:59, 31 October 2007 Lightning4 (Talk | contribs) (1,934 bytes) (→Appointments - Isn't called bookkeeper, at least when the fortress is new.)", because in my forts it IS called bookkeeper when the fortress starts. Other edits have backed me up, suspect editor was confused--Please discuss this here? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 15:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:I apologize, I was indeed incorrect. You do start with a Bookkeeper, which in very short order can be upgraded to a Treasurer. Unsure of requirements, possibly only requires 20 dwarves like the sheriff. My fortress has one and I haven't even done anything besides changed who had bookkeeping and set it to higher priority (did not build study yet). That's probably what got me confused since the bookkeeper upgrades very quickly. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 18:11, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::Yeah, 20 dwarves sounds accurate enough to put in there. He didn't turn when I had only 17. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 18:14, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

"Your original expedition leader will be the fourth dwarf down in the starting screen(the one in the middle)." This does not seem to hold true; I have a newly-developed habit of making the last dwarf on the screen (used to be my designated hauler-peasant) into the administrator, with all the social skills for filling the four starter noble roles. He gets auto-assigned to all four administrative positions; I'm thinking that instead of being fixed or random, the starting assignment is based on social skills. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 00:29, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

I had a Philosopher show up last night. I'm unsure of the requirement to get him; the only really notable thing that had happened was I got over 100 dwarves. I'm adding him to the list of Nobles, though, since I can confirm he still exists in the new version. I also divided the page structure between Appointed and Immigrant nobles, since the current header was misleading (Dungeon Master and Philosopher cannot be appointed). --[[User:Zurai|Zurai]] 20:55, 10 November 2007 (EST)

I had the king show up tonight. "The King arrives, dressed as a peasant." I have no idea what the requirements were. I missed the 1051 and 1052 dwarf caravans due to prolonged sieges, and had no immigrants those years. 1053 I had the caravan; a season later a wave of immigration brought my total dwarves up to 37. In the spring the king arrived, along with enough others to bring the population to 63. At that time I was notified that the Captain of the Guard position was available. Only thing I can think is that I hit adamantine during the siege years, and mistakenly built a number of ridiculously valuable adamantine objects. (Door, Coffin, etc.) This has raised my fortress value to 1.3 million. Is 1 million value perhaps the trigger? I have no coins, and no nobles other than the starting 4 positions. I did not appoint a sheriff. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:15, 15 November 2007 (EST)
:In the last version, hitting adamantine without proper requirement for the king triggered the reaction of having the king arrive dressed as a paysant. Maybe it's the same here. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 04:20, 15 November 2007 (EST)
== What determines expedition leader? ==

There are a number of situations to test out:
* No social skills on any dwarves
** ''Probably random, possibly based on the Dwarf's thoughts and preferences''
* Majority of social skills on one dwarf (various positions in start order)
** ''Test case 1: only one dwarf has social skills - gives that dwarf as leader and all positions''
* Social skills spread between multiple dwarves
** Is there any weight on which skill determines the leader?
--[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 01:25, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Is the first point certain? In my current fortress, I didn't assign any social skills to any dwarf, and I'm pretty certain that the dwarf that ended up expedition leader was the seventh in the list. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 02:28, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::In my current fort I assigned no social skills and the first dwarf in the list, one of my miners, is the expedition leader. --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:40, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:::Might be randomised then, I started three new fortresses for the test and each time it was the same so I made an assumption. Obviously this isn't the case can you two check what thoughts/prefs you have for those so we can look for some leadership criteria. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 08:10, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::::It's almost always been the first dwarf for me (assuming no one had leadership skills), but I could have sworn one time it assigned someone else. Maybe it defaults to the first dwarf on the list but can sometimes choose someone else under certain conditions. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 22:29, 10 November 2007 (EST)
:::::Perhaps the first dwarf didn't get it because of negative preferences? Some dwarves have a line in their thoughts/prefs that reads something like "X prefers to let others take leadership roles". [[User:Tocky|Tocky]] 11:04, 11 November 2007 (EST)

==Room requirements==
Maybe something about the nobles requiring better rooms and how to build them? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:15, 4 November 2007 (EST)
:Found it in [[room]]s, adding a link. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:34, 4 November 2007 (EST)

The [[How do I increase the value of a room quickly and easily]] page seems to be a pretty helpful page, but so far what links to it may not be much help when someone is in a pinch with their nobles ([[Door]], [[Room]], [[Furniture]] and the [[Frequently Asked Questions]]). After all, I assume that page exists for that constant problem with nobles where your new Duke requests a "Grand" dining room and DAMMIT, the best you can do is a "Decent" dining room and that sweet, kick-ass, dolomite dining table with the chrysoberyls the image of a dwarf striking down a goblin isn't ready yet because your legendary Gem Setter is "Attending Party". So perhaps a link on the Nobles page should also exist? [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 15:07, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

:New pages are largely useless without links - feel free! If you see a need, then, by definition, there is one.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:11, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

The room requirement for consorts is not clear. Seeing that they are married, don't they share a single bedroom with their spouse? Is this an exception to the law of marriage? The same questions hold for dining rooms and tombs. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 09:18, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

:It's perfectly clear. Lovers like to have their own rooms, even if they never use them. (When you start dating, you'll understand.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:04, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

:: Except that consorts are not ''dating'', they are [[Marriage|''married'']]. (When you are married, you'll understand.) --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:58, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

:::You're married, and you don't wish you had your own room sometimes? Let me put it this way - maybe the DF royals don't know about this "law of marriage" (and law of dining, and law of dying) that you adhere to. Or, maybe you've just never been dwarven royalty. If it's still not clear, then just accept that.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 15:02, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

::::Surely, you've noticed that you are contradicting what's currently written on the [[Marriage]] page. So if you're positive about the game mechanics, you should update that page. If you're not positive, that's when the ''still not clear'' kicks in. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 07:32, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

It seems that rhetorical questions and pointed hints are ineffective, so here is how to read the chart; we'll use the King/Queen and Consort as our example:

{| border="1"
!Noble!!Quarters!!Dining Room!!Office!!Tomb
|- align="center"

|- align="center"
!King
|bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Bedroom||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Dining Room||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Throne Room||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Mausoleum

|- align="center"
!King/Queen Consort
|bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Quarters||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Dining Room||—||bgcolor="#ffff00"|Royal Mausoleum

|}

The position under "Noble" is the noble the chart is referring to. The listing under "Quarters" are the quarters that ''that dwarf'' wants, the listing under "Dining Room" is the dining room that ''that dwarf'' wants, and so on. There is nothing to imply that one noble will be happy with a related noble's rooms - a Baron doesn't use a King's Throne Room or Dining Hall, an Advisor doesn't use the King's Office, and neither does ''any other noble''. So, both a King and his consort want'' their own'' Royal Bedroom, Royal Dining Room, and Royal Mausoleum, and in addition the King wants a Royal Throne Room for his Office. You can share rooms between royals, but that reduces the perceived value significantly. I can find no reference to a "Law of Marriage" on the page - any assumptions not specifically listed or addressed in this chart are yours alone. If this is ''still not clear'', the requirements for individual nobles are clearly listed in their individual article pages: '''[[king]]''' and '''[[King consort|royal consort]]'''. If that's ''still not clear'', I'd suggest asking in the forums, because this format doesn't have time or space to serve your special needs.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:50, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

: When you assign a bed to a [[Marriage|married]] dwarf, its automatically also assigned to his/her spouse. This is not a case of overlapping rooms, but of a single room belonging to two different dwarves. It's easy to see this by yourself by taking a look at your married dwarves and their bedroom arrangements.--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 20:08, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

== Not 100? ==

I just received migrants. My population went from 76 to 100, and my settlement went from a village to a town. No nobles arrived with the migrants. [[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:14, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:Still a town at 108
:Another wave, and we're a city at 111 (migrants still incoming)
::My population went from 101 to 126 in one wave. A Baroness arrived at the same time and turned my settlement into a Barony. Shortly afterwards, my settlement turned into a County (125+ dwarves?). Then Baroness upgraded into a Countess. Baron consort upgraded to a Count Consort.--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 16:49, 19 November 2007 (EST)
::Next immigration wave, my pop hit 138. Nothing happens. Then next immigration wave, my pop hits 141, the Countess upgrades to Duchess and the Count Consort upgrades to Duke Consort. Also, "Incoming King" is the top line on the Nobles screen. When you select it, it shows you what you need to achieve in terms of 1. architecture value (15000) 2. road value (5000) and 3. offerings value. (5000). I'm not sure what criteria triggers the King as it happened at the same time as my Duchess. I did just hit 200k exported wealth. Conincedence? --[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 10:27, 20 November 2007 (EST)
::Another wave, jumped to 161 pop, and some more nobles, a Duke and his Duke Consort. Now I have both a Duke and Duchess!--[[User:Slumber|Slumber]] 14:06, 20 November 2007 (EST)
:I was made a city and a barony at 110, and promoted to county almost immediately after. No new immigration happened, and I hadn't reached the 120 mark yet. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 16:27, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:The last immigration wave brought me from 98 to a total of 124 including baron/consort, tax collector and hammerer. It is now a City and a Barony. I'll watch out if it changes on the first immigrant from the next wave.I currently have over 500k created wealth and 17000 exported.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:05, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:One child is born and now my total population is 125. Still a City and a Barony.--[[User:Another|Another]] 09:23, 25 November 2007 (EST)
:My fortress was upgraded to County when the caravan left the map and my exported wealth leaped from 17k to 26k. The trigger for the County must be either 20k or 25k exported wealth. --[[User:Another|Another]] 12:47, 25 November 2007 (EST)
::Baron arrived during an immigration wave going from 88 to 112 dwarves, and upgraded to a Count not long after arrival but ''not'' immediately either (perhaps as the population went over 100?). Exported wealth was probably around 50k at the time. Now at 119 (and 80k exported) and not yet a Duke. Looks like there's a combination of factors involved. [[User:Cim|Cim]] 11:10, 14 December 2007 (EST)
:Upgrade of the fortress to Duchy was at exactly 140th dwarf from an immigration wave. "The Incoming King" included. Total created wealth - 950k, total exported - 30k.--[[User:Another|Another]] 16:37, 1 December 2007 (EST)
: My Baron arrived in the immigration wave that took me over 100 (I had peaked at 96 previously) but this was also the season where I crossed the 50,000 threshold on exported wealth. I actually went from 48,000 to 62,000 over the course of the year, and the baron arrived in the Spring, I did have an immigration wave after crossing 50,000 in the fall. Almost immediately after my baron arrived, he was promoted to count. My population is 119. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 16:41, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:At exported wealth 45k, my Baron promoted to Count at the 110th immigrant. (Baron arrived in the first immigration wave after getting 80 population, can't remember what exported wealth was then) [[User:Cim|Cim]] 20:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:Population at 93 no Baron. Next wave - first person to arrive is a Countess, with this wave population went to 114. (So, had no Baron at all) --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:39, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Verified about 140 limit for Duke. My Wrestler have given birth to a boy, the populationd got to 140, and the next message is about the fortress becoming a capital of Duchy. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:10, 24 January 2008 (EST)

== Queen As Peasant ==

I had dug out some raw adamantine, not done anything with it, and I got a notification that 'Your ruler has arrived disguised as a peasant.' At the same time, my Dungeon Master arrived. I don't have an announcement in the log about the Queen, but I do about the DM. I'm treating her like it's legit, what's the deal?

:Your ruler has heard of the discovery of adamantine, and hurried to yuor fort to oversee the digging. She turned up "disguised as a peasant" because your fort doesn't meet the regular requirements for attracting the monarch and moving to your site officially would be embarassing (in roleplaying/story terms of course). She's perfectly legit, just wasn't attracted in the "conventional" sense by having the largest, wealthiest fort in the civilisation you belong to.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:42, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Baron mandates "crowns"? ==

I just got a baron, and the first thing he mandates is two crowns. So i type Crown into the jobs/manager list. nothing. So I type crown in dwarf wiki. Nothing. Can anyone help before I have to drop this noble into a pit to keep him from locking up my crafters?
:Info about specific crafts isn't present in the new wiki, but a crown is in fact a "craft" item. [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Craftsdwarf%27s_Workshop#Crafts You can see the old wiki info about crafts here]. You'll probably need to set several crafting jobs to get a crown since the item produced by a crafting task is random with several possibilities. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 00:06, 1 February 2008 (EST)

== Killing nobles ? ==

Is killing nobles dangerous ? (does it stop immigrations or something ?)

Because I've got a Count totally uncontrolable, who can't stop throwing tantrums in the middle of my fortress, which is somewhat tiresome... So, if I just can lock him into his bedroom and let him starve to death, it would be great, but I don't know if it won't cause more problems..

(Also, sorry for my bad english, I'm french)
[[User:Timst|Timst]] 05:40, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:Killing off your nobles only really has the penalties associated with killing any other dwarf - their friends and family will be upset, and you lose that dwarf's abilities. In the case of nobles a replacement will usually turn up with the next migrant wave, unless your fort no longer meets the requirements for that noble. You can, of course, kill the replacement too - with lesser repercussions as he won't have had time to make any friends yet.--[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 06:38, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::Ok, thanks :) I was afraid that the death of a count could induct a reaction of the mountainhomes or something like that... If the only reaction will be the one of the countess, it will be ok :) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 07:00, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

:::In the future, killing off a noble will have repercussions, however, so don't depend on that behaviour forever. ;-)
:::''Req291, NOBLE DEATH, (Future): Killing off nobles needs to have serious consequences. Once the counties (see Core28) are in, there could be revolts from the village if the count is popular. Other nobles could have angry relatives. Losing your law enforcement nobles could lead to more tantrums and other acts in large fortresses. Nobles should all be upset by the death of the tax collector. When a noble is buried, other dwarves could be sealed in the tomb.''
:::--[[User:JT|JT]] 15:11, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

::::This doesn't sound like it has much effect on a "kill early, kill often" approach — e.g. preparing their death room immediately upon their arrival, and luring them in via a profile-set lever pull job. The count won't be popular (at least in your fort) if nobody knows him, unless he's popular by reputation or something. Angry relatives? If they show up friendly but ready to tantrum, I draft / lure them into killing rooms; if they're hostile, I deal with them like a siege. Nobles all being upset by the tax collector means nothing if I've killed all the nobles. And it's not like I'm going to make tombs for them, either. Only the law enforcement one looks like an issue.

::::On the other hand, maybe that's the point — you're penalised if you just randomly kill nobles because you don't like them, but you're also allowed to run a "screw the nobility, we're a free communal fortress" game (or have a "kill the entire current regime, we want a revolution" event) so long as you actively enforce it. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:02, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

: Another issue that can pop up is killing your Baron/Count/Duke, their spouse will stick around and remain a noble even after the replacement and their spouse has shown up. On one fortress my count had 3 Countess Consorts, one was his wife and the other 2 were leftovers from the previous 2 counts. One Baron happened to be standing under a drawbridge as it came down (don't ask what a drawbridge was doing in his room, lets just say he wasn't going to get that rock crystal item he wanted) and his widow was promoted to Countess Consort when the new Count showed up to replace him a few seasons later. That Count was tending a farm when a squad of gobs beat the living tar out of him and his widow remained a Countess Consort even after the third noble arrived to replace the dead Count. They all still make demands/mandates and still require rooms/tombs and all that as before. [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 20:55, 18 January 2009 (EST)

== Selling Nobles ==
<tt>╔═╦═╗</tt> Unlock doors, assign lever to noble, order lever pulled. 
<tt>║ò┼^┼</tt> Wait for noble to stand on cage trap, lock both doors. 
<tt>╚═╩═╝</tt> Wait for noble to fall asleep, sell caged noble to elves. 
:Sorry for the crude drawing. My wiki format skills are weak. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 14:36, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:Eh... except for the small known bug where trying to haul an occupied cage to the trading depot results in whatever is caged being freed and the empty cage being brought in. But once they fix that bug, maybe. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:30, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

::I've been trying to sell my dwarves for ages, as a 'clean' approach to dealing with nobles and unwanted immigration. Sadly, they always seem to die of thirst first. If I let them out just once to drink, they die of hunger. Maybe if I let them out twice... but that's a lot of effort. Better to just let them die, unless they're very popular or something. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Selling to the Elves? That's too cruel, even for nobles! Don't you know that the Elves are '''Cannibals!?!''' --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 12:45 17 August 2009 (EST)
::::[ENTITY:FOREST]
:::::[CREATURE:ELF]
:::::[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]

::::::Actually, they're not cannibals. That would state that they would eat each other if they killed each other. This is only that they'll eat the dead that they kill themselves, and as killing each other in their society is not acceptable they won't eat each other, however, if the Sapient_other tag was set to acceptable they might end up eating each other if they die by any means. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 20:16, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

::::::Well, eating deceased of your own kind is still cannibalism. [[User:Kurokikaze|Kurokikaze]] 11:15, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

== Category? ==

I would do this myself if I knew how, but perhaps someone should make a noble category, with all the noble related articles (Unfortunate accident, mandate, types of nobles, etc) in it. I think it would be useful. [[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 20:53, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

==Nobles Working==

Actually, nobles not only gather harvest if you put all dwarves harvest on, but they also help demolishing constructed walls.=--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 00:53, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:Thanks, I'll add that to [[labor]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

==Arrival Requirements Verified==
Ok, I just had the Baroness, Hammerer, and Tax Collector arrive simultaneously with no other dwarves. I'm playing with a population cap of 50, and births (plus overflow of last immigration wave) has finally taken me up to exactly 80 dwarves. Despite the population cap, the Baroness, Tax Collector, and Hammerer arrived by themselves.

<s>Note that the Baroness Consort has not arrived, presumably because he takes the place of a normal dwarf during the immigration wave and can't be generated in violation of the population cap (whereas the other three can).</s> nevermind, he just showed up.

I should also note that I earlier had the King arrive as a peasant by himself despite being at the population cap. He also brought no consort nor advisor (although I've never had him arrive as a peasant before, so I don't know if that's normal).

I have not seen a philosopher as of yet.

As my fortress wealth is past 8 million at this point, I think its safe to say I can rule that out as a cause (having seen them at much lower wealth in default pop cap games).

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:30, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:I had the usual five nobles show up once in an immigration wave that took me over 80 dwarves, and promptly killed them, along with most of the immigrants. I subsequently set my population max to 50. My current population (minus nobles) is 69, yet those same nobles continue to show up every few seasons, suggesting that once you become a barony (80 pop, initial baron/ess arrival), they'll continue to show up again, regardless of your current status. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:10, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

==Noble demands==

I currently have a Baroness demanding "item in Dining Room". Any idea what could satisfy this? I tried a bismuth bronze statue, no luck. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 00:24, 5 January 2009 (EST)

: This is a bug. Check # 000491 @ http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html --[[User:Sinergistic|Sinergistic]] 00:47, 5 January 2009 (EST)

==Pretentious Arrangements==

Thoughts about a lesser's pretentious <whatever> arrangements seem to be a common source of noble unhappiness. (this is especially annoying for me as my mayor has an artifact in her bedroom raising it to Royal and my queen has no list of likes and dislikes, so I can't make her happy just by having the right booze) it would be interesting to know what exactly causes the difference between "upset" and "shattered", how to avoid it, and good ways to mitigate it's effects. I might have to do some research on my old fort to check this myself. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 13:58, 6 January 2009 (EST)

:Well, I suspect that the difference is related to the difference in room value, although I suppose that's stating the obvious. Another obvious solution would be to move the artefact into the higher-ranked Noble's room, assuming that's possible. Otherwise, I suppose the simplest (if not the easiest) way to mitigate its effects is to add as much value as possible to the Queen's room. As well as furniture, you can get surprising results with smoothings, engravings, and building an expensive floor over the engraved one if you have no qualms about exploiting such strangeness.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:07, 6 January 2009 (EST)
::I can confirm it's the difference between relative worth. I kept getting these annoying messages in my count + consort until I stuffed a platinum statue in their rooms. Obviously, this increased the worth of the room by 12K, easily dominating the 'lesser' quarters.

::It does require that there be a significant difference; having them at roughly equal worth will cause unhappy thoughts, which was my problem in my most recent fortress. I just housed all my nobles in the same residential stack as everyone else, adding extra room additions off the main design for offices, dining rooms, etc. The Count's room was a LITTLE better as his walls happened to be ore-bearing, but it wasn't enough to please him, hence the statue.--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:04, 7 January 2009 (EST)
:::Alright, I've put the artefact cabinet back in my mayor's room, and now will proceed to test this principle by making the Queen's rooms incredibly nice. I'm going to start by replacing all her furniture with gold and platinum, and move up from there.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 15:49, 7 January 2009 (EST)
::::You may have a long way to go. Artifact furniture can easily be 50 or 60K, whereas the most expensive single piece of furniture I've ever been able to produce is a masterwork platinum statue, which is 12K. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:36, 7 January 2009 (EST)

::::While you can't order artifacts dumped, you can apparently order them forbidden. So maybe you could forbid it and then move the creator's quarters elsewhere, leaving the original one vacant. Or maybe you could make them temporary quarters elsewhere, wait for them to move the artifact, then forbid it and move them back. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 19:22, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::I believe you are misenterpreting the way artifacts, and ownership of artifacts works.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:12, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

== Noble upgrade size. ==

I have a count still event though I have 148 dwarves. Could it be dependant on more than just the 140, or is it different now? [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 21:55, 11 February 2009 (EST)

: I'm at 188 dwarves still with a count not a duke. Could there be a dependancy on metal jobs? Other than melting down the goblin metal, I don't have any metal jobs going. [[User:PierreMonteux|PierreMonteux]] 10:47, 14 February 2009 (EST)

I just had a peasant give birth to a baby. This put my population at 110, and I immediately got a message that my fortress had been made into a county. So, I will remove the "verify" tags from the count/count consort promotion info.--[[User:Scrotch|Scrotch]] 18:59, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

::I'm certain that exports are a requirement. Remember that only wealth you have created can count as exports, trading goblin items won't raise the number. If you can't offer it, it doesn't count. I had a fortress with 140+ dwarves that jumped up to a barony from nothing when I started exporting. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 20:03, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Failure to comply ==

I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet, but what happens if you don't give a noble the room he/she requires? I know they get unhappy thoughts, but is that all? Will they punish anyone? Or just start throwing tantrums? Next useless noble I get is sleeping in the barracks. On the floor.
:Unhappy thoughts? I don't think there is any repercusions. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:26, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::Unhappy nobles means more mandates, more demands and harsher sentences. --[[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 20:04, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I just read this and checked my noble's happiness levels and justice levels, and even though they all seem ecstatic lately I have someone who's being jailed for 64 days, which I think is pretty extreme. I have been fulfilling hardly any of their mandates though, so perhaps jail time is related more to mandates than happiness?[[User:Gnavin|Gnavin]] 14:29, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

== Why Nobles Exist: ==

Nobles exist because Dwarven government is a feudal system; the fortress is just a semi-autonomous local government which must still answer to the King, and here's why:
::Long ago in the Age of Myth, the King's ancestor was legendary +5 in every military skill and took control of everything, killing all who resisted. His descendants are now <s>fat, lazy, whoremongering, good for nothing slobs</s> not as <s>cool</s> personally strong as he was, but they still technically own everything, including "your" fortress. The expedition that went to "colonize the King's land" did so with his permission, <s>usually given while drunk</s>. When your fortress becomes large enough that it can no longer <s>avoid notice</s> govern itself "properly", the King sends one of his <s>drinking mates</s> representatives to <s>screw up</s> "manage" the fortress. The nobles hold the authority of the King, and so there every <s>ridiculous</s> <s>stupid</s> <s>impossible</s> "reasonable" mandate "MUST" be obeyed. --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 12:37 17 August, 2009 (EST)

== Nobles: Now usefull ==

After long studies and several fortresses I finally found a way to use the nobles. Not as Farmers (that my legendary grower children would be...), but as a indeed valueable accuisition to your fortress.
The trick is simple. You give them nice houses. Outside, so their windows are not useless. And your nobles will be so grateful for this, that they will discover ambushes and in caes of sieges, they will hold up the attackers, so your military can gather and charge that vile force of darkness!

I could though never test this, because my current fort does not attract any nobles, what seems verry odd to me... (167 dorfs & 582253 wealth) I guess it's because I have barely any underground tiles discovered. (Neither having any artefacts) --[[User:Laranto|Laranto]] 23:24, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Children

2009-11-08T23:01:21Z

Laranto: /* Nudists */

Dwarves will get married? I thought only immigrants could be married, when the arive at the fort?

– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Doler 12|Doler 12]]

Dunno about that! but I did rewrite the article. Hope the formal wikipedia style isn't too far out of whack here, [[User talk:GarrieIrons|slap me]] if I need it.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:19, 5 February 2008 (EST)

:Dwarves can get married at any point, if they like each other enough. Does anyone know if dwarves will ever not 'forgo any formal arrangements'? Someone better than me should write a marriage page. --[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 12:27, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

::see [[Marriage]] [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 13:16, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

== out of date ==

relationships and marriage has been added recently, so this ought to updated to reflect the new, less mysterious process.

== How many children again? ==
Hmmm 25 children and only 10 dwarves... Maybe unleashing that dragon was a bad idea.
:You think that's bad? 241 dwarves, 70 children. I'm making an entire village outside for all of them... when you hit the pop cap, they keep having babies (until 100 if the init.txt is unedited), but you get no actual labor from migrants. It's getting exceptionally annoying in here... 12 years in game, and only 2 children have graduated to peasants. --Gotthard 12:11, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== kids and alcohol ==

gotta love em when they lift up the whole 56 weight barrel... and thats from as young at two as well ^_^ [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 08:53, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:The newborns in my fortress "need alcohol to get through the working day". Must come from their mum the Mayor being still on active duty and having one baby per year every year of the fortress so far. Kinda sucks that my most reliable means of "alcohol production" so far is trading in "narrow giant cave spider silk socks (600)" for sly grog!09:07, 29 June 2008 (EDT)
::Actually the quote from the (I guess toddler) is "She needs alcohol to get through the working day and has gone without a drink for far, far too long"![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:09, 29 June 2008 (EDT)

==child abuse?==

my child has a broken upper leg... idk how it happened :( my guess is one of its parents hit it really hard, or one of them sat/laid on top of it in bed - that family often has all four of them in the same bed. [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 08:48, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

<nowiki>:(</nowiki> nobody wanted to feed the kid, or bring it water, so it went melancholy within a year. [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 10:15, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

== Noble children don't become nobles right? ==

I was amazed a noble gave birth. I want princesses and princes, even though they will have beards.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 21:17, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
:I've not seen it personally, but the exact opposite is said to be the case. Due to a dwarf's value being set in an economy by how much work they do and their children's value supposedly being a function of both their parent's until they come of age, Noble children end up being paupers since their parents don't need to do any work/get stuff for free for merely being nobles. --[[User:Kyace|Kyace]] 07:05, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

== Happy to be free ==

I recently had a kidnapper make off with a baby (despite the only entrance to my fort being cage-trapped - NB. it is not safe for baby-carrying women to be Mechanics!), and the child in question currently has a single thought: "She is happy to be free.". Free from the oppressive shackles of dwarven society, I guess. Perhaps the goblins make more toys than I do! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 15:22, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

: Maybe it's just a "joke" from Toady. Or maybe the baby manage to escape the goblin's lair, but it seems strange in the current version (38c).

:: I just had one kidnapped and was expecting the parents to get a negative thought. (didn't see one) And I also saw the happy to be free bit under the child. When i zoomed to it though it showed the spot where the kidnapping took place. Probably a bug.--[[User:Silver|Silver]] 15:41, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

:I actually believe this is a way to stabilize the child's mood so it doesn't abruptly throw a tantrum when kidnapped and break something. Happy to be free is an outstandingly powerful happy thought (+1000 where ecstatic is +50), usually used to give people a break from unhappy prisoners getting out of jail. By tacking on happy to be free, Toady is essentially locking in the child's mood so it behaves predictably helplessly when kidnapped. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:20, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::I noticed the "happy to be free" thought in a baby that was actually freed after its kidnapper was taken down by dogs. (It happened automatically once the bag was dropped.) Maybe generating the happy thought before it gets out of the bag is just a bug.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:09, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== Child production ==

Hmm, seems that idle dwarves gave birth to more baby than others. I've got a nervous system-injured dwarf that do nothing else that wander in the meeting hall, and she have 4 children. It should be related to the relationships, because this dwarf is competent in all the the relationship skills... anyone can confirm ? (sorry for my imperfect english) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 10:12, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
:I also have a nervous system-injured dwarf wounded from sparring who's beginning to have children. She's the only one so far with the injury or children. --[[User:FloodSpectre|FloodSpectre]] 17:28, 24 August 2008 (EDT)
:My duchess has had 6 children so far, and she sits around all day whining for more platinum items. My legendary siege builder had no children until she hit legendary (and now does nothing) and started to have kids. However, I have had kinds from my 2 miners (whi NEVER stop mining) but they seem to stick at one until it gets to child status, and then have another. --Gotthard 12:13, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== Triplets... ==

Small fortress, 50 dwarves and suddenly "Tirist Dwarfeddwarves has given birth to triplets"... Of course it was military dwarfess... The article page says nothing about huge dwarven litters. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 11:19, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

== Unusual Family Structures ==

Playing in Adventure mode, I asked a child about his family. He told me about his grandmother, who moved to some city in some year, and later slew a wolf. Then the child added, "She is also my aunt." o.O --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 16:04, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
* It makes sense, but only if you consider inbreeding. And it makes a great deal of sense if you consider everything else. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 15:12, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

== Children strenght ? ==

Are children -not only dwarves but all creatures- weaker than the adults ? It seem logical, but I've never read anything about it. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 04:23, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:The only way I can think to test it is to have your dwarves haul some heavy things (>2000Γ) to the depot and see if the children do it slower than the adults. My bet would be no, though if not, Toady's bound to fix it sooner or later.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:17, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:: Well, by strenght, I also meant damage resistance and etc... eg ; is a puppy less resistant than a dog ? Is a young giant eagle less deadly than a full-grown one ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 18:27, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:::(jarred memory) Oh yes -- children are about 2/3s the size of adults (going by how much meat you get from butchering them), and size is a big factor in combat. So, yes, children are weaker.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:15, 2 November 2008 (EST)

:I don't think there is much difference, my chilren at 'superdwarvenly tough' seem to take as many iron bolts to die a their older relatives. I've had a couple of my children (of which I have 90+) fight off Goblins in hand-to-hand combat, but they won't engage unless they are caught. Frankly, overall children will end up BEING stronger, stat wise, due to talking all the time, compared with older folk who have jobs, but that is not inherent to children themselves. --Gotthard 22:57, 2 November 2008 (EST)

== "abandoned" baby ==

Can a baby die of starvation/thirst if the mother is injured and unable to retrieve them? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 17:02, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:I don't believe babies receive food or drink at all (this leads to the "has not had a drink in far too long" message by the end of their infancy). It's possible that would change when the baby is not carried by the mother, but frankly, I'd be surprised.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:14, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== No Profession? ==

One of my children finally grew up to be a real, manly, dwarf farmer. Except that, despite having proficient skill in growing, he is considered a peasant. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 14:13, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:Hm. I remember in older versions my harvesting children, upon reaching adulthood, became farmers. Does he have Proficient or higher [[broker skills]]? Once his farming skill exceeds them, his profession ought to change.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:37, 11 November 2008 (EST)

::His highest broker skill is competent intimidation. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 14:59, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:::Confirmation, I have a peasant former-child who has novice grower and has not become a farmer. He has higher social skills of course, but that never interfered with the promotion of regular peasants to other professions afaik. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:58, 4 December 2008 (EST)

:::Update: said peasant became a grower when his Siege Operating reached novice... despite them both being the same level... I don't get it... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:33, 4 December 2008 (EST)

:If you use Dwarf Manager to set a fast-levelling labour on a child, like Pump Operating, you can actually end up with a Legendary Pump Operator "peasant" who still has the peasant cyan colour and even flashes appropriately. My theory is that the game recalculates the appropriate label for a dwarf each time they gain a level in any skill, just in case it's changed. Hence, getting any further skills of any sort will readjust them appropriately. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 04:27, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

== The bones of the young ==

How many bones do you get from a dwarven baby? This seems odd and I find no page for the "baby" dwarf here on the wiki so.. it's like this:

The baby and her mother were attacked by goblins. An arrow tore the babys hand clean off and then they killed the mother and the child. I always (f)orbid the dwarves from touching the corpses after they're buried since I suspect they will steal the bones and make bolts out of them. Now I noticed that for some reason in the baby grave there is 1 skull and 2 bones. Does the body give 1 bone and the hand 1? Or does the body give 2 and they never retrieved the hand?
Is this all a bug? [[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 03:48, 23 December 2008 (EDT)

:The current understanding is that young creatures have 2/3s the size (and therefore bones) of adults. Babies might be distinct from children, however -- 1/3 size? That would make dwarven babies size 2, 'cause adult dwarves are size 6.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:25, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::That makes sense. Thanks! - [[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 06:48, 23 December 2008 (EDT)

:As for forbidding the corpses, I don't believe this is necessary. Dwarves will only make bolts and totems and stuff out of "refuse" bones, whereas dwarves and pets are considered "graveyard" (or coffin) bones and will not be used. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 04:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

== Birthdays? ==

Is there any way to determine the birth date of a Dwarf, short of writing it down manually when a child is born? The information must be stored by the game, since infants do become children and then adults. I've been unable to find anything more specific that the relationship tags (''younger'' brother, ''oldest'' daughter, etc.), which are pretty vague.

And are children more likely to organize parties near their birthday? --[[User:Oddrune|Oddrune]] 15:30, 5 February 2009 (EST)

== Nudists ==

I took a look at the children in my fort and noticed that they are all '''NAKED'''. 
Perhaps it should be added to the article? The only things the children had in their inventory was mud, vomit and blood splatter. Which I guess means they hang around the barracks alot. --[[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 00:05, 8 February 2009 (CET)
:Actually, in the Middle Ages, children would often go naked; because clothes could cost more than a week's wages and children would just ruin them. --[[User:Arkenstone|Arkenstone]] 15:23 18 August 2009
:As far as I know only children born in your fort are all-time-nudists. Migrantchildren wear clothes. I wonder if they keep on being naked even after getting to adulthood.(would save the entire clothing industries. :D ) Never had fort for bout... 14 years though.
Best regards --[[User:Laranto|Laranto]] 23:01, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

== Can't change parent's jobs ==

When there's a dwarf you want to change a job on, but she's carrying a baby, you can't access her v->p menu.The baby's v->p menu takes precendence. Is this an oversight? [[User:Blargityblarg|Blargityblarg]] 09:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
:Press v again, this should switch to the mother instead of her baby. When there are multiple creatures layered on top of each other, pressing v should switch between them. Unless you are doing that and it is happening as you described. The Dwarfmanager utility can help you out here if you want to use it. --[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 12:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

== What the heck, children can be assigned jobs? ==
I don't know whether this is a fluke or what, but after using Dwarf Manager to assign all dwarves the masonry task to quickly complete something and after I did that, I noticed that two of the kids were working in the masonry shop. If you don't believe me, look at the screenshot. No idea if this is a bug/exploit or what. I'm not planning on keeping the jobs there on the kids once that quick project is done. I checked again after that workshop task was done and they apparently will do a workshop task but not the construct wall/floor. It most likely has to do with the coding that allow them to use a workshop when in a mood.
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/smjjames/Untitled-6.png[/IMG]

I don't know how to get images up here properly though.--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 23:34, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:In my experience, children are basically just dwarves with their labour screen disabled and most of their labours disabled as well. So yes, you can make them do all kinds of things: Hauling, fishing, working in workshops, etc. Personally, I order them to do nothing but work the pumps until adulthood, so they'll be ready for speedy hauling duty by the time they grow up.

:Dwarf Manager is a memory hacking tool, and should be treated as such — i.e. while most of what it does is provide shortcuts to things you could do in-game, it's not going to prevent you from doing certain things that would indeed be considered cheating. You can set labours on pretty much anything friendly: Children, babies, nobles, heroes/champions (not that they'll do anything since you can't undraft them), etc. It simply doesn't discriminate between what you should and shouldn't be able to tweak. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 04:32, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

== babies can swim? ==
i had a babie fall into some water, (well, the parents swam off without it), it will be find, drown for 1 second, be winded for a second, and then be fine again... [[User:Corhen|Corhen]] 01:30, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

==Combat children?==
I recently discovered a thief attempting to enter my fortress. The adults, including the Ultra-Mighty, Superdwarvenly Tough mechanic leading a war dog to a rope, all ran away, but one of the nearby children took it upon themselves to take down the thief. The child quickly punctured the thief's heart with his bare hands (all that partying made him Extremely Strong) and walked away without a scratch. Can anyone else confirm that children may gladly enter battle as though they were in the military?--[[User:King of the Internet|King of the Internet]] 15:03, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

== Cliff-Chucking ==

I'm currently looking at a pair of babies whose mother died of thirst while melancholy (following a failed possession - damn you, silk-seeking ghosts!). Going by the wiki's words, I tried to keep them from going anywhere at first to make sure that they wouldn't throw themselves off a cliff, but I got quickly tired of that and let them roam freely, where they instead wandered as they pleased and partook of food and drink like any other (albeit very slow) dwarf. Anyone got any idea if the cliff-chucking fact is still true?

I'm running v0.28.181.40d16, for the record. [[Special:Contributions/24.22.239.156|24.22.239.156]] 19:50, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

:I just killed off the mayor, since she was bugged for some reason, and both of her babies (Yes, she had TWO and seven more children in this fortress' nine year history) promptly threw themselves into the reservoir under my dining hall, requiring me to drain it so they can get the little carpers' bodies. So yes, I'd say that babies are still suicidal if their mother dies. --[[Special:Contributions/97.104.167.109|97.104.167.109]] 18:03, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

== Giving birth to babies doesn't interrupt sleeping ==

I had a dwarf sleeping in her bed while it gave born to her baby. The dwarf
didn't wake up after this and the baby crawled away, i guess seeking for his father o.O.
But the baby didn't came far, the mother woke up a few minutes later and took her
baby into her arms. The mother is healthy and has no injuries. Happened with DF
v0.28.181.40d16 under linux.
[[Special:Contributions/95.33.103.233|95.33.103.233]] 06:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)