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On the origins of dwarves

2011-10-06T21:55:03Z

Loganis: /* The Book of Job(s) */

{{D for Dwarf}}

Piecewise's <s>article</s> <s>masterstroke</s> work of art on the forums needs to go here, so all can admire it.

== "On the Origin of Dwarves" ==

Long before our times, during the times of yore when great beasts stalked the darkness and tore civilization’s forebears asunder, there came to this world a strange new race: the dwarves. The ancestry of the dwarves is muddled and confused, often times contradictory, impossible, incestuous or all three. This can mainly be contributed to the dwarven tendency to keep their history through the use of engravings, rather then books or even oral tradition. Dwarves, being a subterranean people, rarely create paper and lack the memories to pass down stories of their ancestors in any reasonable fashion; this inability is mostly blamed on their near constant state of inebriation. Also unfortunate to would be historians is the dwarven tendency to place these historical engravings 60 feet underground and surrounded by all manner of deadly traps, questionable architecture and various slavering beasts. If one didn’t know better it would seem as though they are deliberately hiding their past.

Through what can be recovered the origin of dwarven kind (according to their creation myths) is as follows:

Once, long ago, a particularly ugly and foul tempered mountain goat raped a particularly hairy and insane Mandrill atop a pile of stones and vomit. From this coupling was born the first of dwarven kind, the Mountain King. He was born with a battle ax and bottomless tankard clutched in his tiny hands and his body was covered in such copious amounts of hair that he might easily have been mistaken for a bearded bear cub. The Mountain King was raised by a Granite Boulder and grew strong upon a diet of booze, cave mushrooms and the blood of his enemies. At age 4 he killed a bear in a staring contest and at age 7 he domesticated the first wagon. Upon his ascendancy into manhood he destroyed the boulder which had raised him and reshaped it into the first anvil, proclaiming:

“Reg limar, abod ber, avuz thol, or mabdug, nokor buket!”

These words would echo forever through dwarvenkind, though it is said that another phrase was within this motto. The lost phrase is said to have been:

“Gatiz emar agak.”

Though what this phrase means has been lost to us and inquiries to dwarven historians often end in violence. What little can be gathered is that it seems to relate to animal husbandry.

His childhood behind him, the Mountain King set about founding the first Mountain Home, digging out most of the mountain by himself using only his bare hands and frighteningly calloused manhood. His lavish home now complete and balanced entirely upon a single pillar he set out to make his name known and to find a wife worthy of baring his fuzzy offspring. The first civilization he came upon were the elves, a race of naked and eternally beautiful feyfolk who abhorred the use of trees or animals for any means. It was said that when they met the Mountain King was in the process of beating a mountain lion to death with a wolf. The elves, in their kindness, attempted to persuade the Mountain King to follow their naturalistic ways. In response the Mountain King tore off the head druid’s face and promptly began using it as his undergarments. Before the shocked elven masses he announced:

“Etar linem etes gubel lor."

Which, roughly translated, means:

“Your king blows my bulbous tool.”

Since this epochal meeting the relations between the elves and dwarves have continued to be tense, often times ending in massive forest fires, rampant cannibalism, horrifying dismemberment or, worst of all, crossbreeding. His duty done, the Mountain King continued his journey through the primal world. He next came upon the goblins and was delighted to find that their skinny limbs and necks broke with even the gentlest of hammer blows. After a brief campaign of recreational genocide the Mountain King grew bored of his new playthings and continued on, leaving the goblins broken and scattered, connected only by their intense hatred of small, bearded people. This hatred continues to this day, resulting in nearly constant goblin raids against dwarven settlements. Unfortunately, goblins' limbs and neck still snap with the ease of twigs, making these valiant efforts more or less meaningless.

The last race which the Mountain King discovered was that of Humans, still in their fragile and frightened infancy. Taking rare pity upon the gangly and awkward race, the Mountain King gifted them with weapons, armor and booze, ensuring a stable business and war partner as well as drinking buddy for generations to come. It was after finding this last race that the Mountain King realized he was still without a wife and was beginning to feel the effects of his decades of celibacy. After a tour of countless brothels and leaving a swath of broken pelvises and dislocated jaws behind him The Mountain king finally returned to his home. Determined to have his bride, the Mountain King built a tower to the heavens themselves and petitioned Armok, God of Blood, to grant him a wife. Armok agreed, on the condition that all their descendants from first to last be cursed with a tendency to die horribly. The Mountain King gladly agreed.

The wife which he was given, The Queen of All Stone, was truly a rightful receiver of his seed and wore a beard that could match his own. It was from these two that all dwarven kind sprang (or walked, being that dwarves don't really spring, hop, jump, skip or do anything that means removing more than one foot from the ground).

From this common ancestor onward the genealogy is scattered and unsure, engraved upon bars of soap and metal beds across the world. Many believe that the first child of the Mountain King was a girl by the name of Urist. Records become scarce beyond this but what little can be found indicate that she was notorious trickster and prone to paranoid mania, preferring to remain isolated. From this point on we can only guess.

== Urist's Anatomy ==

Dwarves are, by weight, 40% Body hair, 30% alcohol, 6% calluses, 12% anger, 7% muscle, 1% skin and 4% miscellaneous. Their blood does not have different “types”; rather it has a variety of “proofs”. Their bone structure is not unlike that of a man, though much stouter and more dense. The exceptions to this comparison come mostly from two places: the legs and the head. Dwarves, for whatever reason, lack knees and are therefore incapable of things like hopping, skipping, running in a dignified manner or bending down without falling prone. Dwarves, however, seem to prefer it this way and regard anything requiring knees as being the actions of “elvish silly nannys”. Several of the other strange anatomical designs are centered in the head and the curious structure of the dwarvish skull. A dwarf’s beard is actually connected directly to the bones of his jaw and palate and is comprised of a thick mane of hair like cartilage growths. These growths are actually quite sensitive to certain stimuli and allow a dwarf to detect things like an abandoned pigtail sock, even from miles away.

The dwarven skull is composed of only two very thick bones, one being the mandible and the other consisting of the entire rest of the cranium. This strange configuration seems to be an adaptation to generations of cave-ins and the popular dwarven drinking game “Smash rock with face”. Unfortunately the thick and solid skull compresses the dwarven brain and induces a species wide mental syndrome not unlike severe bipolar disorder. This means that dwarves are highly susceptible to sudden and often violent mood swings, shifting between murderous rage and enthralled stupor with only a particularly nice sock or table as the cause. Another interesting anomaly, or lack of anomaly, is that of the dwarven liver. Dwarves, as a race, are dependent on alcohol from birth; it has been proven that it is not simply conditioning but that the dwarven body is actually dependent on alcohol to perform at its best. While the exact process that makes them dependent and why it is so necessary is still unknown, it does appear as though the dwarven body is paradoxically not equipped to deal with the massive amounts of alcohol it must imbibe. The dwarven liver is by no means more effective or efficient when it comes to filtering the massive amounts of booze that a dwarf drinks, leading to liver failure to be the leading cause of death among dwarven kind (followed closely by “bludgeoned to death by enraged soap maker”).

Beyond these obvious abnormalities are the less known and harder to distinguish differences in dwarven anatomy. Dwarves are a methodical and stubborn race to the point that every aspect of their life is directly influenced. Dwarves work, party, drink and sleep in marathon-like stints, often times continuing a single party or drinking binge for months on end and their inherent stubbornness makes it nearly impossible to change tasks quickly even if their lives depend on it. It is far from unknown to hear of a dwarven fortress falling to invading hordes simply because the fortress guard were in the middle of a 6 month nap or drinking themselves comatose. This tendency has lead to the adage “oblivious as a dwarf on break”.

Beyond their stubbornness dwarves also exhibit a variety of odd behaviors, some of which seem to be related to their physiology while others are more idiosyncratic. A dwarf’s chosen profession seems to influence his thought patterns in radical ways, often leading to specific phobias and reckless behavior. Non-military dwarves, for example, seem to universally develop a crippling fear of all animals, even the most harmless. It’s not uncommon to see panicking works-dwarves running in abject terror from things like mountain goats and perturbed llamas. Military dwarfs, on the other hand, seem to completely lose their sense of self preservation and run heedlessly into battle, ignoring tactics in favor of fanatic yelling. So removed from their sense of fear are the warrior women that they often carry their children into battle, a tactic which often ends in tragedy; It should be noted, however, that there are few sights more frightening then a dwarven woman, bare from the waist up, holding a suckling newborn in one hand and a battle ax in the other, charging toward you.

The debate on the subject of dwarven depression and anger is a complex one at best and is hard to study without significant risk to life and limb. It’s a well known fact that dwarves are particularly mentally unstable and subject a great many psychoses. One, as yet unproven, theory asserts that this tendency toward madness is actually a inborn limiting mechanism to control the number of dwarves occupying a certain area. It is a documented fact that, as a dwarven civilization grows in population the risk of insanity and depression also increases. Indeed it is impossible to walk into a thriving dwarven civilization and not see at least a handful of raving mad-dwarves screaming at the walls. The Theory asserts, however, that these harmless, though insane, individuals are not the purpose of the madness, merely a unforeseen failing. The true purpose of the madness is to limit population numbers through murder, suicide and random dwarfslaughter. Indeed it does seem that large dwarven civilizations are often brought down by internal subterfuge, mass suicide and ritual murder (or by poor architectural planning).

This inherent tendency toward insanity, whatever its cause, seems to have given dwarves an odd sense of art as well as particular building talents. Dwarves are known world over for their proficiency in metal working and weapon crafting as well as mechanical skill, however it is their decorative arts that are perhaps the most interesting. Take for instance a random piece of dwarven armor, a copper gauntlet in this case. Its construction is of the highest order and it is menacing with iron spikes, however perhaps the most frightening thing is its decoration. Recreated in painstaking detail is an image of a horse. The horse is screaming. Often times things such as dining room walls and children’s toys are adorned with images of violent slaughter, terrible holocausts and the occasional giant mushroom. Its not known exactly why dwarves would decorate their homes in such manner, but the scenes of violence actually seem to stave off fits of madness and violence, perhaps acting in some sort of primitive cathartic manner. Or perhaps Dwarves just genuinely enjoy images of bloody dismemberment and triangles.

== "War, Peace and Fell Moods" ==

The dwarven society is a complex and puzzling one, when compared to our relatively simple human society. Where as we seem to be guided mostly by instinct and desire, dwarves are driven by an entirely different kind of morals and ambitions. For instance, it is still completely unknown, even by the dwarves themselves, where their orders come from. Despite the existence of nobles within their society dwarves seem to act independently yet, paradoxically, also as a whole. For the non-informed imagine it like this. One dwarf may decide to mine out some stone, while another may decided to cut stone blocks and yet another may decide to assemble these blocks into a wall. These dwarves do these actions without the knowledge of what their fellow dwarves are doing and they seem only to do this on a whim. Theories of hivemindism abound, but perhaps the most interesting theory is that, in line with dwarven creation myth, the dwarves are being influenced and semi-puppeted by Armok, the dwarven god of blood, or His helpers. However, these speculations remain simply blind guesses.

A brief glance at dwarven society reveals it to be something like Feudalism, with many settlements under the ultimate control of a Monarchy. However, in depth study reveals that the tiny fraction of nobles actually seem to have very little to do with anything outside of trade relations. The prevailing opinion of the dwarven working class is that nobles are slightly touched in the head and their orders border on delusional. Its common for nobles to attempt to restrict the trade of items that do not exist and often can not exist in a specific settlement; they’re also known for their strange obsessions over seemingly random objects and will demand their manufacture, much to the annoyance of the general masses. Some believe that nobles are simply dwarves which have some how escaped whatever force binds and orders the rest of the workers, leading them to be unreliable and mentally unsound without the external control. In this situation the Aristocracy is seen more as an aggravating and demanding elephant graveyard, a position that the worthless and potentially dangerous of dwarven society are “promoted” to in order to keep them away from weapons or heavy machinery.

The possible exceptions of this rule lie within the dwarven justice system, specifically with the sheriff and the Hammerer. Dwarven law is seemingly draconian in many ways, but is also rather progressive. Dwarves put a great emphasis on the lives of living creatures (so much so that they consider the killing of a tame, non-food animal equivalent to murder) and as such have no capital punishment. What they have instead though, could be said to be even worse. Dwarves have three forms of punishment: Imprisonment, beating and Hammering. The first two are relatively minor, with even the harshest of beatings generally resulting in only minor injuries, it is the final punishment which is the most feared. The Hammering is doled out by the Hammerer, the dwarven equivalent of an executioner who wields a war hammer rather then an ax or sword. Hammering is simply that, the condemned receives repeated blows with the war hammer until either the sentence is carried out or the criminal is dead. While death is not the express purpose of the hammering it is often a side effect, with the other outcome usually being serious, crippling injury. Unfortunately one of the crimes which can possibly net this debilitating consequence is that of failure to comply with work orders, meaning that innocent dwarves may have their heads caved in for their inability to make glass in the middle of a frozen tundra. Its not surprising that nobles tend to meet their ends under suspicious circumstances and are often found under mysterious cave ins or floating face down in the moat.

Despite their warrior mentalities and fierce personalities dwarves have shown themselves to be passive aggressive at best (and aggressively passive at worst). While they are known for their fighting ability and boastful nature they rarely conduct war as an invading force, preferring instead to let the foolhardy enemies break themselves upon a fortresses walls. A common dwarvish saying that of “The best place to insult your enemies is behind forty feet of stone.” Its not to say that the most famous dwarven conflicts were those between dwarves and other sentient beings, far from it in fact. Perhaps the greatest example of the, ahem, quirkiness of dwarven culture is that the grand fortress of Boatmurdered. Boatmurdered endured the normal hardships of a dwarven settlement, namely constant raids from goblins and an inherently unstable society, but there was one main difference: elephants. It is, to this day, not known as to why the settlement was founded so close to the forest of “Tuskydeath”, but the outcome was nothing less then horrifying on all sides. For years the dwarves and elephants traded blows, usually resulting in the brutal impalement or trampling of dwarves or the imprisonment or death of the elephants. This conflict culminated in the creation of a “doomsday device” which was used to halt aggressive flooding as well as to flash boil most of the wildlife. Since the final fiery end of Boatmurdered a fragile truce seems to have been enacted between the elephants and the dwarves, if only to prevent such slaughter from ever occurring again.

Unfortunately one creature continues to be a continuous hazard to dwarven kind is that of carp. The official myth of the dwarves is that Armok created the carp out of river rocks and instructed them to mutilate random passersby. Regardless of their origin carp are considerably dangerous to dwarves, fisher dwarves in particular. Its not uncommon for fisher dwarves to be dragged into the river by swarms of these blood thirsty beasts. Some dwarves die as they are snatched off bridges or while gathering water and are never seen again, at least in one piece. Worse then river carp are the popularly named “death pool carp” or carp that have become trapped in murky pools. These pools are death traps and can be fatal to anything which wanders too close. Perhaps the most terrifying is the idea of what dwarves refer to (in hushed tones) as skeletal carp. These creatures are the remains of carp, animated through dark means, and are reported to be “faster then a beak dog and stronger then an ogre” as well as nearly immune to any sort of conventional weapons. There are reports of hordes of these strangely animate corpses galloping across the bleak and blasted wastes, tearing apart anything which gets in their way. Exactly how a fish, undead or not, can gallop is something beyond this writer’s comprehension.

== The Book of Job(s) ==

Dwarven culture is one dominated by toil and greed, leading most dwarves to be little more then glorified workhorses for the vast majority of their lives. It was once remarked of a dwarven miner that “there has never been a life as cruel or mercifully short as his”. In general dwarven labor is separated into two categories, crafting and hauling things about. For instance, a carpenter is considered a craftdwarf, as he creates useful objects from a raw material; a woodcutter is considered a hauler because his job consists mainly of chopping trees and lugging them around till he inevitably dies during some sort of animal attack. Almost all known dwarven professions have been complied and documented here for the sake of…well, record keeping.

[[Mining]]:
The noble, humble and very crushable miner is a job of both great importance and great ineptitude. On one hand the lives and livelihoods of all other dwarves depend on their ability to carve away the mountain and protect their comrades from the harshness of outdoor living. On the other hand their only discernible skill is the ability to swing a pick and (usually) not get crushed by falling rocks (maybe). It should be noted that, though both the job and the worker are relatively simple, the work does tend to produce sculpted, muscular dwarves ripe for military usage. Let us not forget the tales of dwarven work camps being defended by Herculean miners, their massive arms bulging as they embed pickaxes into elven hearts and minds.

[[Wood cutting]]:
The wood cutter is much like his miner counterpart: essential to many facets of the modern fortress and yet requiring the rough mental equivalency of a wagon wheel. However the wood cutter faces many more dangers in his line of work, from braving the horror of the wide open sky to battling the various forest creatures (sometimes including elven assassins). Unfortunately the woodcutter gains even less recognition than the miner, probably because the material he harvests only has a small set of uses within a well established fortress.

[[Carpentry]]:
Carpenters make various things out of wood, a practice that was deemed “Dangerously elf-like” many generations ago. Because of this carpenters are viewed either as outcasts (if they enjoy their job) or as unfortunate souls doing a terrible duty out of necessity (if they don’t like their job). While it is grudgingly acknowledged that some wooden things are necessary, at least early on, this does not mean that dwarves have to like this fact. In the grand scheme of things dwarves view carpentry as somewhere between manure shoveler and rapist on the scale of social agreeability.

Generally Carpenters and Wood cutters are tolerated as essential for the sheer fact that they make elves cry.

[[Masonry]]:
A mason has a strange place within dwarven society. They're generally seen as respectable by most, their job being one of the more useful and in demand; however they are also sometimes seen as heretical and dangerous. This belief stems from a common dwarven idea that the mountain and natural stone are all around better then anything that they or any of the other races could throw together; as such it’s seen as rather impertinent that a mason would try to “improve” on the natural rock by making unnatural things out of it. However the groups that think this tend to be small fringe groups, many of which also believe that the masons are a world spanning cabal intent on taking over the world and then carving all the mountains into giant cheese statues.

[[Stone detailing]]/[[Engraving]]:
Engravers are an odd bunch, perhaps the most innately subversive group in any dwarven fortress. During times of relative calm they enjoy carving things like triangles and mushrooms, perhaps in an attempt to create some sort of weaponized boredom. However, in troubled times they delight in covering every flat surface in an endless array of disturbing images; it's not uncommon for dwarven bedrooms to be adorned with mosaics of the inhabitant’s loved ones being gored by elephants or trampled by goats. Engravers are often described by their peers as “arseholes”.

[[Animal training]]:
Despite the job title this dwarf seems to have the perplexing task of randomly releasing various terrifying animals from their cages and promptly getting mauled. It seems that occasionally they may accidentally domesticate one of these snarling beasts but this can probably be chalked up to chance. Very rarely they also teach dogs to bite goblins where it hurts.

[[Animal care]]:
See Butcher

[[Health care]]:
See Burial

[[Fish cleaning]], [[small animal dissection]], [[fish dissection]];
Dwarves with any of these jobs seem rather unbalanced and are prone to fire starting and bed wetting. It’s advised that one should keep at least ten feet from them, for a variety of very good reasons, not the least of which being that they are coated in the internal fluids of untold house pets.

[[Butchery]]:
The butcher serves essentially the same purpose a human butcher does, though dwarven butchers seem to prefer battle axes to meat cleavers and enjoy their job a great deal more. While dwarves can live quite healthily on a diet of Plump Helmets they are renown for their delight in all manners of carnivorousness and as such the Butcher is seen as a welcome friend, a bloody and wide eyed bartender. The difference here is that the drinks are undercooked and made from cats.

[[Leatherworking]]:
Dwarves have a code of morals surrounding animals that is strangely familiar. They abhor the torture or mistreatment of their furry companions but seem to have no problem slaughtering, skinning, and eating them wholesale as long as it’s done in a specific manner. This means that there is often a vast amount of usable leather from various beasts and house pets just laying around the fortress, making leatherworking a stable job in deed. Dwarves seem to possess a strange affinity for elf leather products, perhaps a hold over from the leather thong of their great forefather the Mountain King.

[[Tanning]]:
This is the middle man between pet and sock, the great equalizer of life and upholstery. The tanner has the glorious job of taking the semi-rotten skin of various animals (and occasionally people) and transforming it into fine leather to be used as a raw material. It’s unknown how dwarves go about this process, as the human method of tanning requires large tracts of time, various foul chemicals and generally produces an odor that is noticeable for miles. The dwarven Tanneries are, by comparison, tiny workshops often located next to living quarters or even within kitchens. When questioned about this perplexity dwarven tanners whistle and attempt to look uninterested

[[Farming]]:
Dwarven farming takes two paths, the normal above-ground farming which we are familiar with and more exotic underground growing. Dwarves seem to prefer the act of farming underground, even if they occasionally delight in the exotic brews made possible by above ground plants. Beyond the dwarven nutritional staple of booze the farms serve a lesser purpose of producing food and raw materials. Dwarves seem unconcerned about what they eat in most cases and can easily live out their lives subsisting on a diet of Dwarven wine, plump helmet and the occasional side of cat meat; This leads to an overwhelming majority of plump helmet farms which in turn leads a dwarven farm to resemble a scene from Alice in wonderland, albeit a dark, dank, vomit reeking wonderland populated by manic-depressive midgets.

[[Fishing]]:
Depending on the area the job of a fisherdwarf can either be a luxury or a death sentence. In most areas the work of a fisherdwarf is dangerous only because of its need to be outside, amongst wild animals and horrible sky. However if carp are involved this normally menial job becomes a game of roulette, with every moment being just another chance to die. From the few historical carvings we have we know that the dwarves once had a 4th punishment, in addition to their current triad of prison, pummeling, and pounding; this fourth punishment entailed forcing the condemned to fish in a carp infested river till he was finally set upon by the beasts. This punishment was eventually banned, partially because it was deemed too cruel and partially because it tended to have a mortality rate of 4 or 5 rather then the intended 1 as guards and spectators were also dragged to their fishy end.

[[Soap making]]:
Strange does not begin to describe this particular labor, The strangeness of it stems from the fact that dwarves are seemingly incapable of using soap for its intended washing purposes, choosing instead to stacking it about or simply trade it away. The soap maker himself seems perplexed by his creation yet continues to make it. Various men have tried to instruct the dwarves in the use of their creation however they remain seemingly mentally blocked from comprehending its purpose. However, men have also tried to teach the dwarves the meaning of being on fire and were equally unsuccessful, so perhaps there is simply some sort of cognitive dissonance involved.

[[Furnace operating]]:
There is a saying which goes “When a dwarf and fire are wed, the former will inevitably end up dead.” This, above all else, accurately describes the dwarven relationship with things hotter then body temperature. As such it’s surprising that furnace operation is such a safe job, indeed there are no reports of fatalities directly relating to the furnace operator’s job (unless being caught in a cave in counts). How this record is maintained appears to be a complete mystery to all involved, including the Operators themselves. However, since it seems to take the average Operator something like a week to do even the simplest of tasks one could surmise that the record is the result of extreme safety measures or simple cowardice.

[[Wood burning]]:
Wood burners lead a charmed life, revered as heroes for their use of fire to destroy the scourge that is above-ground nature, yet constantly hunted by elven assassins for the same reason. Wood burners are often local celebrities and are the pride of a fortress but the position is rarely volunteered for. The elves, in their endless attempts to destroy dwarven values, have singled wood burners out for death. The term of a Wood burner is usually ended when he his found face down with an oak arrow embedded in his spine.

[[Lye making]]/[[Potash making]]:
This labor includes letting ash float in water and then letting that water dry out (maybe). It also includes setting one’s hair on fire in a desperate attempt to liven up one’s bleak, ashy existence.

[[Weaponsmithing]]:
The act of making a hammer with another hammer, creating the paradox of “where did the first hammer come from?” Weaponsmiths are often hulking brutes of considerable strength, perhaps second only to dwarven accountants in sheer muscle mass. Their job mainly consists of lifting something heavy and smacking it against something hot till something sharp is made. They are considered the backbone of the army, both for their skill in weapon creation and for their general propensity to cave in goblin skulls with their hammers.

[[Armoring]]:
The rival of weaponsmithing, it’s not uncommon for inter-fortress arms races to pop up as weaponsmiths and armorers compete to one up each other. (in this case however I’m referring to the ancient dwarven tradition of “arms races” in which the participants drag themselves around the fortress using only one arm.) The armorers say they are more valuable because you only need one weapon, but many items of armor.

[[Blacksmithing]] and [[Metalcrafting]]:
The work that doesn’t fall into either armoring or weaponsmithing is relegated to the humble blacksmith. The Metalsmith makes the much more mundane objects needed by the fortress, including cups which no one uses and coins that generally have no value.

[[Gem cutting]] and [[Gem setting]]
Gem cutters are the jewelers of the dwarven world and are known for their flamboyant nature and sequin cloaks. They are often found, prancing about the tunnels with small hammers, gathering the raw material for their labor before returning to the shop to gently chisel away. While not a particularly proud part of the fortress gem cutters are tolerated for the vast wealth they bring in. Curiously they’re all named Shirley. Gem setters are a fair bit more dignified, even if their casual attire is a jewel encrusted codpiece.

[[Bonecarving]]:
A habit most pick up in jail is actually a time honored tradition within dwarven society. It’s well known that dwarves prefer to use just about every part of an animal (not because of any sort of ethical ideal, but because it increases profit) and that they have a vicious sense of ironic humor; as such the act of turning elephant bones into arrows with which to shoot more elephants is seen not only as cost effective but as a genocidal good time.

[[Stonecrafting]]:
One thing that dwarven society is never short of is spare rocks and it is the stoneworker’s job to turn all this useless debris into equally useless trade goods. Some of the strangest things a stonecrafter can make are stone musical instruments. How exactly one is expected to play a stone harp is lost on this author.

[[Woodcrafting]]:
Like carpenters, woodcrafters are often the object of ridicule and anger. They do, however, have one talent which brings them some social standing: the ability to make wood bolts for crossbows. As mentioned before dwarves have a love of poetic justice and as such greatly enjoy killing elves with wooden arrows. A famous dwarven general once said of a particular conflict with the elves: “They demanded to know what we had done with all their precious trees. So our archers showed them.”

[[Glassmaking]]:
Dwarves have a perilous relationship with glass. On one hand it’s fragile, a quality dwarves detest. On the other it’s shiny and involves fire in its creation, both qualities which they love. Regardless of their opinions on the substance glass tends to have few if any practical uses within a fortress, being that windows aren’t exactly a necessity a mile beneath the earth. Much like the stonecrafter the glass maker seems to focus his efforts on building things like Goblets which dwarves never use and toys which will invariably shatter into some child’s hands and eyes. However, unlike the stonecrafter, the glassmaker’s raw material is time and resource consuming to create. This leads to the common impression that dwarven glassmakers are insane.

[[Siege engineering]] and [[Siege operating]]:
Merchants of death on a grand scale, Siege engineers create the dwarven weapons of mass destruction: the ballista and the catapult. Regarded as talented though a bit off, as they tend to test their wares on migrants and unsuspecting wildlife, much to their own delight.

[[Mechanics]]:
The dwarven mechanic is usually considered one of the most intelligent of dwarven society, capable of constructing everything from power generators to deadly traps. Oddly enough they require only one type of mechanism to do this, though the number of these mechanisms varies from machine to machine. Humans have for years tried to discover the method by which such complex apparatuses can be constructed with only 2-3 parts and have in-so-far been unsuccessful. Another mystery is the way in which mechanics can mechanically connect two objects, even across massive distances, with only two of these mechanisms. When we questioned a dwarven mechanic by the name of Hertz about this seemingly impossible phenomenon he merely shrugged and replied “Ich habe keine Idee, aber es ist recht interessant.”

[[Weaving]]:
While the task of weaving is usually relegated to the women of other races dwarves hold no such sexist policies. Instead they have much more dangerous policies, like capturing enormous spiders and feeding them a constant diet of crippled goblins in order to harvest the spider’s web for high value silk production. It should be noted that the dwarves also do not discriminate who to feed to said spider based on sex, race or age; in other words it’s equal opportunity murder all around.

[[Dyeing]]:
A favorite activity of dwarves, especially those near volcanoes or cliffs.

[[Clothes making]]:
Dwarves are a simple race when it comes to clothing, many wear and in fact prefer to wear simple clothing. Of course this simple clothing invariably degenerates into rags prompting the creation of new clothing. After all, spending is better then mending. Counter intuitively though the post as clothier is rarely filled, meaning that the demand for new clothing often goes unanswered. When asked why so few are willing to become a clothier most dwarves will simply scream and run, while the few braver souls will recount stories of horrible carnage and destruction. It is believed, after careful study, that the loom is actually a distant cousin of the Wagon; however, unlike the wagon, the loom is capable of moving of its own accord. Loss of life and limb is rife.

[[Milling]]:
Dwarves tend to do this when they should otherwise be working.

[[Hunting]]:
In theory this is the practice of bludgeoning, stabbing or shooting various wildlife to death in order to use their carcass as food or raw materials. In reality it’s the practice of wandering into the forest, getting trampled or gored and then dragging one’s crippled self back to the fortress where one then occupies a bed for the rest of one’s natural life.

[[Brewing]]:
Brewers are loved above all others in their community and in the cases of exceptional brewers almost worshiped. A master brewer will often have a harem of comely young women (or nubile young boys) along with substantial treasure and fame. However a brewer who disgraces the practice by brewing sub-par drinks will be ridiculed and despised, or in some extreme cases publicly lynched. It should be noted that many of the aforementioned actions and decisions happen while the participants are extremely inebriated on said brewers beer. This has lead to the adage “Madder then a Dwarf on Sewer Brew”

[[Plant gathering]]:
The act of tearing various plants out of the ground for various purposes, the favorite of which is “just to annoy the blasted elves”. The brewers do thank the gatherers - sometimes.

[[Milking]]:
Dwarves are quite odd in their choice of which animal to milk. While all manner of mammals are available to dwarves, including the cow, camel, ox and goat, dwarves instead choose a insect as their only source of milk. Beyond this they chose a maggot that many dwarves find detestable and that can only be milked one a season. When asked why they would do something so counter-intuitive most dwarves look embarrassed and attempt to change the subject.

[[Cheese making]]:
Because milk is a rather rare commodity in dwarven society, for aforementioned reasons, the prospect of cheese is rather dubious. Because of this dwarven cheese is actually extremely valuable, equal to dragon meat. This author wonders if the choice of “dwarven” cheese rather then “purring maggot” cheese has something to do with this, though dwarven cheese implies rather disturbing things in and of itself.

[[Cooking]]:
Dwarven cooks are only grudgingly accepted into society, mainly because they are seen as an unnecessary step between the raw meat of the butcher and a potential meal. The dwarves are not particularly unreasonable in this either as it is a well documented fact that dwarven cooks do not, in fact, cook anything. Raw meat, plant products and Minced wine are simply mixed together to create “roasts” and “biscuits”. While these names may sound appetizing the reality of the matter is that they are gelatinous masses of grayish moist unhappiness. While many outsiders think that the miasma found around kitchens is the result of rotting food, it is actually a byproduct of successful cooking.

[[Trapping]]:
Imagine, if you will, a great and grizzled mountain man with a long flowing beard and eyes shining like two great lumps of coal. Imagine this man holding a bear trap. Imagine this man chasing a mouse with this bear trap. This is the basic scenario of dwarven Trapping.

[[Architecture]]:
The dwarven architect is often uneducated and inexperienced, sometimes picked simply because he is the closest to the current construction job. Thus thrust into his new position the unfortunate victim usually fails terribly, often ending in the deaths of several masons and the stranding of many more. In order to avoid embarrassment the project foreman has the architect jailed and supposedly executed. However, rather then actually executing him the foreman simply gives the victim a false beard to wear over his real one and then reintroduces him into society. By the end of his life time the average dwarf is reported to be wearing no fewer then 3 false beards over his real one.

40d Talk:Cave spider

2009-11-03T22:03:47Z

Loganis: /* Spider bites */

==Vermin?==
Is cave spider a vermin or what? Haven't seen any, although the webs are reappearing every so often.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:22, 17 January 2008 (EST)
:Yes. I believe the small ones are regular vermin. The Giant ones on the other hand... [[User:Jikor|Jikor]] 04:38, 17 January 2008 (EST)
::The seem to be especially invisible vermin. If you want to see one you just need to look longer. They also seem to like covering their caves with miasma from rotting olms... --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:08, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

== Spider bites ==

My cats keep being bit by cave spiders and walking around stunned. What does this mean for me? Are my dwarf's pets going to die and drive them to the brink of insanity? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 13:24, 14 April 2008 (EDT)
:A cave spider bite causes the victim to randomly get inflicted with the status condition "stun" for the rest of the victim's life. This is not fatal, and in the case of a pet, not really important. --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 13:36, 14 April 2008 (EDT)
::I had one of my Dwarves bitten by one. He randomly gets stunned, for the past year... It's annoying, but they continue doing what they were last. [[User:Aaron5367|Aaron5367]] 16:19, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
:::The [EXTRACT_PERMANENT] token would seem to suggest that the "intermittent stun" effect is permanent. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:30, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

- Does this in any way have an affect on the dwarve's mood? --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 22:03, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

== Not just cats ==

Had several different tame animals bitten, no sign of stun so far. - Sheltem

== Cold weather ==
Are they present in cold climates? can anyone confirm? -- [[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 23:44, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

:From what I can tell, they are present underground, anywhere there is a chasm of some sort. They teleport like other vermin. [[User:Aaron5367|Aaron5367]] 16:22, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

== Silk Farming ==

I would love to see some of the ideas from various [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=28728.0 posts] in the forums to consistently and successfully farm silk from a captured cave spider (of any kind.) [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 21:33, 1 January 2009 (EST)

== Webs and Vermin ==

I noticed that vermin that walk into the webs end up becoming remains immediately. This isn't listed anywhere and I don't really know where to put this information. --[[User:Mokkom|Mokkom]] 00:43, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

== Caves vs Chasms ==

Do "caves" have their own biome tag? I had the impression (Ignorant of this detail of the game, sorry) they overlapped by default, caves just being rarer, but anything in a chasm could show in a cave - no?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:26, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

== Climbing Spiders? ==

I noticed this in my most recent fotress though I thought it to be a bit odd. I dug a staircase vertically down into a underground pool, besides the hole in the ceiling, there was no other way out, the strange thing is (besides the fact that there were even spiders in the pool considering there was no flat ground to stand on) cave spider silk is now covering a good portion of the lower part of my map. I find it odd because I am in a freezing rocky wasteland biome and there were no spiders until after I dug the hole. --[[User:radical|radical]] 05:19, 1 November 2009 (EST)
:Cave spiders are [[vermin]], so they spawn in the vicinity of their native environment once you discover it. --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 04:06, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Engraving

2009-10-27T22:31:33Z

Loganis: /* Smoothing/engraving vs re-walling */

==Smoothing/engraving vs re-walling==

I started a general page on engraving, mostly to point out that it appears possible to smooth tiles containing ore, since they have been placed in the category of stone now. Haven't tried it on gems, but I'm quite giddy about being able to make an aesthetically pleasing fortress in the middle of an ore vein finally.

:Yes, ore is now exactly the same as regular stone, so it can be smoothed just fine. Make for MUCH nicer fort designs then before. I am not 100% sure but I think gems work the same way too. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 03:49, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
::(For more recent readers, yes, confirmed, they do.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:32, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Note also that rewalling allows for even more aesthetic possibility. And you can extract the ore or gem from a wall and then rebuild it with less useful material.
:Except you can't engrave rewalls. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:10, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

::Actually, you can - I did it accidentally when I was smoothing out a plateau for one of my round towers (the fort was called that, might as well put some round towers in :P). Also added in a channel and they did their job before the lazy engraver could haul his arse to do his. In time, I put up a rewall and came back later to find the top of my rewall engraved with blazing suns, dwarves etc. Kinda confused me when I first saw it tho --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 09:57, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
:::Did you construct these rewalls on top of an engraved floor? That gives the walls the appearance of engraving, but I don't know if it counts as an engraved wall for room value purposes. --[[User:zombiejustice|zombiejustice]] 00:41 2 June 2008 (CDT)

I hit {{K|k}} and everything, looked at my wall, and all it said was "Detailed Obsidian Wall." It doesn't work when I make the walls look like regular walls with lines on them or when I make them have the funky little symbols. My fortress is quite young, but I heard that the engraver can just use his imagination and stuff. What's wrong? --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 19:55, 14 November 2007 (EST)
:Hit {{K|k}} and then hit {{K|Enter}}.

:::as of the latest build you cannot engrave a built wall --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 22:31, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

==stone types & happiness?==
Does the type of stone affect Dwarf happiness? Are they happier if their room contains a golden engraved wall? Or even a granite one? And what about the floor? I've just cleaned out a gold vein and I'm thinking about rewalling it into a dinning hall to take advantage of the gold floor. --[[User:Malenfant|Malenfant]] 11:34, 26 November 2007 (EST)
:[http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000691 Draxxalon's study] suggests that the stone does have an effect. --[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 22:24, 12 December 2007 (EST)

==room value?==
I'm doing a little studying on the architecture value of smoothing/engraving for the current tournament. As far as I can tell, a smoothed wall is worth 8 monies, a smoothed floor is worth 6 monies, and the base value of an engraving is 10 (so an *engraving* is worth 40). The value *DOES NOT* depend on the type of stone, you get the same bonuses even if you smooth/engrave ore. And of course while engravings do have quality, smoothing does not. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 17:20, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

:At one point I noticed a tiny room had an astronomical rent value - turns out the walls were native aluminum (that the game never announced for some reason, and i'd smoothed them without noticing). I mined out the ore and rewalled and the rent dropped substantially. So I'd say ore value matters quite a bit, at least for walls --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:10, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

::Had same thing but with gem floor. About 5 tiles of some x10 value gem floor increased rent from ~2300 (minor noble room) to ~8000. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 15:10, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

== Quality engravings tell more history ==

When I had my dwarves engrave the history in my story I wrote earlier, they weren't very skilled at engraving. Though my entire fortress had been burnt up by spirits of fire and attacked by goblins a couple years back, only two of thirty engravings depicted a demon and had a story along with it. There were about thirty engravings done, and only three were well-crafted. The three well-crafted included the two about demons, and one that had a fact about my mayor being elected in 1051. The rest, which were normal quality were of pointless designs and creatures never encountered. Quality plays a major role in what is shown in the engraving. I'll add a section about this, does someone know if higher qualities like masterful depict even more?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 16:51, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:I have no desire to savescum and abandon, but I do find that generic dwarf enrgavings tend to be less quality. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 17:10, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
::I checked it out a few times, there's no difference in the history of masterful engravings then there were in well-crafted ones. The only exception is unskillful engravings, they don't tell anything. So it's confirmed then. --[[User:Richards|Richards]] 08:42, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

== Types of stone ==
I'm pressing {{K|d}} then {{K|e}} and selecting an area, then pressing {{K|Enter}}. But it's not seeming to do anything in most bits of my fortress. (I find this with smoothing as well.) Could this be because they're mudstone? Does engraving only work in certain types of rock? It'd be good to clarify this somewhere. --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 08:28, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

alex: you need to smooth the surface first. currently any stone surface can be engraved. first you smooth it from a rough stone surface with {{k|d}} then {{k|s}} first, then designate it for engraving after it is nice and flat. confused me on my very first fort also. --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 05:45, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

== Engraving Constructed Walls ==

Why can't constructed walls/floors be designated for engraving? Has Toady said anything specific about this, or is it just something we have to deal with? --[[User:Rakankou|Rakankou]] 00:15, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
:Have you tried smoothing them first? I think they have to be smoothed first, they also must be made out of stone. [[User:Magikarcher|Magikarcher]] 02:13, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::Constructed walls also can't be designated for smoothing. --[[User:Rakankou|Rakankou]] 03:39, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
I have just had dwarves engrave the floor tile made by the tops of some constructed walls. The engravers were originally ordered to engrave the natural stone walls there, but they were removed before the engravers arrived to make way for a waterfall. When they came, they engraved the floor tile made by the constructed wall on the z-level below.--[[User:Odul|Odul]] 04:43, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
:Suddenly, I am hugely confused. The walls beneath the engravings were removed, and now there are engravings on open space.*makes backup*--[[User:Odul|Odul]] 05:10, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

== Toggled engravings differentiation ==

I noticed in a previous fort (in a previous version) that engraved walls, once I'd toggled off their display, were a different shade to the ones that had only been smoothed. I believe it was smoothed basalt (dark grey), and the engravings were lighter - either mid-grey or white. Can anyone confirm? --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 09:15, 16 August 2008 (EDT)
:Yes, I've seen the same thing. Smoothed and Engraved got the same tile, some foreground, different background. Smoothed siltstone was dark brown on black, and hidden-engravings on siltstone was dark brown on grey -- the same grey background as the non-hidden engravings got. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 03:21, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

== About Defacement ==

Will defacing an *engraved wall* or an =engraved wall= annoy the engraver? I have an enormous legendary dining room that I want to make even more legendary by adding a pair of waterfalls, but I don't want to piss off any of my engravers.--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 17:10, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:Only defacing masterpieces (☼) will cause negative thoughts.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:38, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:: Somehow I think the values for negative thoughts for defacing engravings is wrong, actually. I defaced, in the course of a season, roughly 30 masterpieces (legendary +5 engravers can get DAMN annoying when it comes to where you can build) and he never dipped below ecstatic. He hadn't created an artifact (or been freed) recently, and I don 't think much else should be able to reconcile a supposed 1500 negative thoughts. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 22:12, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:::From what I've read elsewhere, the defacement penalty is 1000 divided by the total number of masterpieces created by that dwarf. So if your legendary dwarf has engraved a thousand or more tiles, he'll have made hundreds of masterpieces and the "travesty" over each will only be a few points.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:58, 13 November 2008 (EST)

::::I coulda sworn it was 50 per masterpiece... Ah well. Thanks for the tip. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 22:12, 13 November 2008 (EST)
:::::Maximus is right, for what it's worth. Just a few days ago I inadvertantly told my miners to deface 5 masterpieces of one of my legendary engravers. He'd been with my fortress for many years (i think 5) and had hit legendary about 3 years prior. He's definitely engraved over 100 masterpieces; it may be 250 or more, really. The engraver barely noticed the 5 defacements. He was still ecstatic when I checked him, just chilling out in the statue garden and chatting with a friend. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 00:45, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Goblins can destroy engravings? ==

:''A masterful engraving that is destroyed or defaced (mining, magma, tower caps and goblins do the job nicely...''

News to me.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:44, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Engraving under siege ==

I assume that these battles depicted are actually over, but the whole siege isn't. So it will show, for example, Urist Thunderfist striking down Flowers Treesunshine, the Elf. Which has already happened, but it won't show, for example, Urist Thunderfist striking down Violet Lovefest, the Elf. Which hasn't happened, but is going to happen. So really, engraving under siege doesn't engrave any different than engraving after any other battles. Unless it does actually do the latter. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 19:58, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
:That particular bit of information was added a few months ago by Eerr([[User talk:Eerr|Talk]]) and was cut out without any verifying, I thought it was interesting so I added it back in. Feel free to change any wording you think is deceptive to what you know is true.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 20:08, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== Snow-covered Open Space ==

I dug a Pillar out of the mountain and detailed it. After it collapsed during a cave-in the place where the floor on the top was before, now was detailed open space. Still showing the same engraving as before but in blueish color.
[[User:Voenix|Voenix]] 13:27, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

==Vandalism==

I've had many miners beat/arrested for "Vandalism" after having had my miners remove engravings that I decided I didn't want there because I wanted to continue building past them. Unless you have a better reason for why these miners were suddenly listed as needing to be beat/arrested for "Vandalism" after they destroyed the walls I think that's pretty well verifiable.[[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 21:43, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
:I agree, but do they get punished for words that are less than masterwork quality?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 21:49, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
::My miners never get punished, no matter how many masterful engravings they deface. I have Justice in full effect. --[[User:Overspeculated|Overspeculated]] 19:29, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Stymied

2009-10-21T20:18:40Z

Loganis:

Can anyone confirm what causes this? I had a goblin raid very recently, and all of a sudden this message pops up. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:14, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

:Same thing happened for me. I believe that is caused when a diplomat leaves without doing his diplomacy stuff.</captainobvious> --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:46, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

:Some immediate causes: Adamantine King bug (try to find king, but he's not there); insane diplomat dies; leader unreachable due to bridges being raised. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:54, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

::If someone can tell me the exact wording of the error message I'll add it to the [[Template:Errors FAQ|errors FAQ]]. [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:24, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:::The exact wording is as follows;
::Diplomacy Stymied
::A diplomat has left unhappy.
:::Hope that helps. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:39, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Okay, done. Now the article just needs to have what causes the diplomat to leave (for me, Liasons always just sit around for seasons until my manager talks to them) and therefore what players can do to avoid it. [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 06:55, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::And what the consequences are.

40d Talk:Siege

2009-08-11T22:03:05Z

Loganis: /* Hungry, Hungry Hippos Goblins */

===Trigger?===
Just noticed that I got my first (Goblin) siege at 100000 wealth. Anyone else confirm that this is the trigger? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 00:06, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:I had my first goblin siege at about 600k wealth. They sieged me at 15 levels above ground level, where I had a stairway to my fortress. They loitered around for a season and left. [[User:Kaivosukeltaja|Kaivosukeltaja]] 07:31, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::Thanks. I removed my addition from the article. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:35, 9 November 2007 (EST)

I think part of the trigger is killing a Goblin. I'd captured several Goblin thieves, but it was only after I'd dispatched them that I was besieged. So, (wealth > certain amount) and (has killed Goblins) maybe? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 23:09, 12 November 2007 (EST)

Actually, according to Toady (http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000033), Goblins will start sieging now roughly around 80 dwarves and/or some odd amount of wealth.

:I had 3 goblin snatchers show up at a population of 40 dwarves and created wealth of 63,793 (v0.27.169.33g). --[[User:Frond|Frond]] 22:17, 16 January 2008 (EST)

I think that the trigger amount is off by a bit- I just received my first siege, by goblins, at 57 population and about 411,000 wealth. --[[User:Linktoreality|Linktoreality]] 04:58, 18 February 2008 (EST)

I'm playing at 50 pop cap (performance reasons) and in 6 game-years of play + 2mil wealth I haven't had any sieges yet. --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 17:14, 3 March 2009 (EST)

== Troll squads ==

I had 3 troll squads of exactly 8 trolls in each during a siege. Had a goblin king that time but no beak dogs. Can it be that no beak dogs in goblin civ=better chance for trolls?
:I been sieged at least half a dozain time in my current fortress, and I've never encountered trolls or anything bigger than skilled goblins. In my latest siege, all the goblins are specialised in something but I have no trolls or wolves or whatever to show for. Any idea on this behavior? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:16, 26 November 2007 (EST)
::Apperently they haven't access to any chasm biome for trolls and to whatever biome for beak dogs.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:42, 26 November 2007 (EST)

== Mounts ==

Woe betide those who anger humans. I added a second human race with [BABYSNATCHER] instead of [SIEGER] for barbarian raiding action. When they sieged, every last one of them was riding a horse. When I approached the buggers kept running away and going all Parthian shot on me, too. It was pretty bad ass. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:23, 10 November 2007 (EST)
:Oh snap, it's the Mongols. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 14:48, 7 March 2009 (EST)
::More like the Iranians(or Persians if you like)[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_shot] [[User:Shoez|Shoez]] 02:27, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

== Still bugged? ==

Are sieges still bugged in 33b? If someone knows for certain, could they add the version number to the statement in the article? Ta. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 19:52, 18 November 2007 (EST)

i just got siege and i think the bug is still there cause just redownloaded it for erroring reasons...the goblins just sit there and wait for something...
im wondering if (thanks to the bug) the goblins well just die of thirst or something?? or well just o away?

:Yup, still bugged. Toady needs to rewrite the siege AI, 'tis not a simple bug. Goblins will go away on their own after a while, but that beats all the fun. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 15:04, 21 November 2007 (EST)
::Some people suggested on the forum building siege engines near the golin groups and fire to them to death. I'm trying to do just that in my current game. Alternatively, I think there is a flag in the init file where you can disable sieges. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:33, 21 November 2007 (EST)
:Has anyone looked into changing the raws for the goblins to have them a similar behavior to werewolves and other predatory creatures? They roam around the map looking for something to kill, and while they might not stay together in a squad, or move toward your base directly, at least they would do *something*... if it works. Any thoughts? --Gotthard 12:24, 30 November 2007 (EST)

:As of 33g I think they're still somewhat bugged. They will charge but if they find something to attack, it seems like their AI turns off and they stop on the spot. So I guess as long as you don't give them anything to attack on the way to your front gate, they will work fine. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 22:45, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Siege as a blockade ==

"A siege is a military blockade of a city or fortress with the intent of conquering by force or attrition, often accompanied by an assault. The term derives from the Latin word for "seat" or "sitting."[1] A siege occurs when an attacker encounters a city or fortress that refuses to surrender and cannot be easily taken by a frontal assault." --wikipedia

A siege isn't just a blind charge into your cage traps, either.
[[User:Moller|Moller]] 14:38, 3 December 2007 (EST)

My last few goblin seiges, have been actual seiges, instead of running around into my traps. The first of 3 squads ran in, about half fell victim to my traps, then ran, then the other 2 squads have been just waiting outside my fort, for 3 months and counting. [[User:OmegaX]] 15-September-2008
:Just to check, you didn't do anything that would break their pathfinding like triggering cave-ins, locking doors, or raising bridges? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:41, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
They left after a season, but there were no pathfinding issues, the fort was open, just waiting for them. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 21:10, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

==Best way to counter sieges?==
So far, the best way I've found to counter sieges is to create a line of traps all around the map. You can't build them just next to the border of the map, only 5 or 6 squares away from it... However, goblins still walks around a little and often hit the traps. It's hard to create enough casualties in this way to stop them, but they hardly ever leave without giving me free stuff and free kills. :)
Alternatively, setting up balistas or catapults in front of them and firing away is also very rewarding. Too bad it's almost impossible to do without forbidding your dwarves from fetching everything outside, which usually mean that they'll get in the way even if you manage to forbid everything in time. I wish there was a way to allow military dwarves to operate siege engines...--[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:47, 3 December 2007 (EST)

: I agree. Traps are a great thing. I also save VERY often, and when a siege occurs, I will 'force quit' and revert to a previously saved game. Then I make all my dwarves soldiers and give them time to pick up their equipment. This has proven very successful.--[[User:Keesto|Keesto]] 23:46, 5 September 2008 (EDT) Later...I have found that traps are the best/only defense. I have set up about 200 cage traps around the map, and also 20 stone fall traps around the entrances. Soldiers are only useful to me now when I release the goblins from their cages- in confined spaces -for a mass slaughter. Very satisfying.

== Human Leader / Mercenary? ==

I got my third or fourth goblin siege in the current game, and they arrived with a Human Spearmaster in one of their squads. Anyone else got this? Is it worth mentioning in this page?
:Confirmed: third siege. One of invaders is Human Macelord. He is a best attraction at my zoo right now :). Think, i'll add this. Whoops... someone already has :)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:33, 16 January 2008 (EST)
::My roommate had one in a group of ambushers. He was wearing a human leather earring, so that's lovely ;) --[[User:FloodSpectre|FloodSpectre]] 20:04, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

== Nifty defense plan ==

On an unrelated note, I figured a pretty nifty way to kill a lot (or all) of a siege by making an outdoors gatehouse with marksdwarves on the battlements... except instead of making it face OUT, I make it face IN, so I let the enemy inside and they get totally annihilated, as they are shot as soon as they appear :)

Something like this:
<pre>
########
=bolts=#
######@#
+@# g
+@# g
g +@# <- goblins on ground floor come this way
+@# g
+@# g
######@# g
=bolts=#
########
</pre>
This work specially well again enemy shooters, they don't even get a chance to shoot back (and it seems it's nearly impossible to hit my dwarves on higher ground AND behind fortifications).

--[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 23:23, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I recently tried a system like that, where the entrance hall is two floors tall, and I have a marksdwarf barracks on the floor above. They shoot plenty of goblins, and of course I have about 60 stonefall traps there too. I watched laughing as 66% of the goblins thought "AAAH RUN AWAY" and they retreated like sissies :D --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 11:25, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Stealth Sieges ==

It seems that in the new version that sieges don't give announcements anymore. I was still getting my fortress together when one of my woodcutters was ambushed by 10 or so goblins. They proceeded to charge my fort and get killed by the merchants and dogs. Then like 30 seconds later the second wave appeared unannouced at my door. The merchants were in no shape to stand against them and the dogs were all dead. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 15:31, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:This sounds more like an [[Ambush|ambush]] than a siege. I've had four seemingly seperate goblin ambush squads all assault my fortress at the same time (four seperate "An ambush! Curse them!"s), each of which was a lot more dangerous than my first siege! -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:00, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== quote from toady, december 27 ==
(so maybe parts of it changed)

"Humans and elves will come some time after they are angry enough at you.

Kobolds will start sending thieves once your pop hits 20 or you've traded a bit (value 500) or you've produced a bit more (value 5000). If they successfully steal objects, they'll come back with more thieves, and if they continue to be successful, they'll bring (buggy) archers. The power of the next attack is based only on how many objects were stolen during the last raid. They'll start sending archers if three or more objects are stolen.[]..they can send as many as 17 thieves and 36 archers, but this is incredibly unlikely. If the stolen object number is five or more, they'll start sending important historical figures.

Goblins start sending kidnappers when your population has hit 50 or you have traded a bit or produced a bit more (5x the kobold numbers). Once your population hits 80, they'll start to send more serious attacks instead of kidnappers on occasion. The numbers sent during the serious attacks depend only on how many attacks you've been through. If they have mounts or monsters(trolls?), they'll start using them on the second attack, with multiple monster packs on the third. Important historical figures also come with the third attack, but master weapon users can come on the second. Important kidnappers come on the second kidnapping attempt.

All of this will be obsolete once I get the armies working properly on the world map, though there will still have to be some artificial mechanism in place to stop early forts from being wiped out."

:Good, then I shall start war with the elves because there are no goblins.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 18:22, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

== Human Sieges ==

I am, right now in v0.28.181.39b, being besieged by about 14 humans, one of which is on a horse carrying a bow. "An enemy is laying siege" or some such came up instead of the usual "A vile force of darkness has arrived". Even stranger is that they built ''A Campfire'' and are just milling about around it. There is a clear path straight into the heart of my fortress. There is no sign of war on the civ screen. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 09:21, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
 It's even worse than that! They're actually doing siege tactics - they sit in their camp until someone goes outside, at which point they all set off to kill that poor sot. Then they return to camp. If it's not outside, they don't care. They also don't seem to be affected by any of my traps. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 11:52, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
:just wait until the campfire has burned down and then they will move to the fortress as the goblins do. It might take a while, so no need for hurry. I only had two human sieges in my current fortress until now, but they seem to increase in numbers as the goblins do.
:*first year: ~10 humans, not mounted, campfire
:*second year: ~20 humans, 2 squads, mounted. 1 squad with campfire, the second one just waited and had no campfire. After a while, they moved to the fortress, but not both squads at once.

:In my case (v0.28.181.39c), they were affected by my 2 weapon traps. At least at the second siege when they were mounted, during the first one when they had no horses, I had no traps, so I don't know if this has an effect.

:The text of the human siege is "The enemy have come and are laying siege to the fortress"

: In my fort the human guild representative died and once a caravan was slaughtered by an ambush.
:[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 18:24, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

::now in the 3rd year, a human diplomat arrived instead of the next siege and he offers the following options:
::''Peace is calling out to us. How do you respond?''
::Enter: ''I hear her voice. Let us stop this war.''
::Space: ''We will drown her out with the screams of your dying. Begone.''

::As I'm a beginner, as far as wikis are concerned, it would be nice if someone could update the article.
::[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:34, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
:::I've added it in, although I'm also a n00b at this wiki stuff, and kept forgetting important stuff. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:22, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::::thanks. As there aren't many reports about human sieges right now, it is a good start. -[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 03:09, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

: I have also received a human siege (v0.28.181.39e). Accidentally had the merchant diplomat locked in my fort - he 'left unhappy' (but he and the caravan were otherwise unscathed.) First summer - 10 unmounted humans; second summer - 50 humans, all mounted. Their campfire died down in Fall - it is now mid-Winter and they still haven't entered my fort. Instead they ride their horses in circles outside my gate. I have tried to bait them with expendable dwarfs but they just take them out with crossbows. Dwarven caravan did not even attempt to come in the Fall; also, no goblins or kobolds have dared to raid during the siege. All in all, a pretty effective siege as I do not have yet a military capable of attacking. (3rd year of fort). By the way, when the first siege force arrived I had fewer than 80 dwarves.
:[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 21:27, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

My guild rep died somehow, not really sure what caused it, though my relations before that were fairly good with the humans, aside from a caravan seize once, and when they came back I gave them gifts and large profit margins. Anyways, now theres a seige, I dont see a campfire, but they're definately waiting, eventually they marched into my fort, AVOIDING all the non-cage TRAPS. Cage traps got a few, but they evaded my corridor with 20 weapon traps, and 40+ Stone-fall traps, all loaded and ready. Without a single injury. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 02:13, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

:: I remember something about the human merchants and/or guild representatives looking at traps when visiting the fortress, and making them useless against the human siegers. Great ! Now we have Human spies and diplomats, Goblins blitzkrieg, Kobold snipers and Elven commando. Can't wait for Elephant paratroopers and Giant cave spider artillery. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 16:21, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Operation Dumbo Drop and Starship Troopers?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:27, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
::::[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20081211.html Rule 11: Everything is air-droppable at least once] --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 08:21, 13 December 2008 (EST)

== Avoidable? ==

I just had my first siege in my current fortress, and happened to save right before it started, like 1 or 2 steps before. The goblins killed all of the dwarven caravan that they arrived with, so I reloaded and there was no siege. I haven't been very long in this no-siege alternative univers, so I want to know if it will happen slightly later, or if I have avoided it completely. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:39, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

I just got ambushed, with an elite bowman along with the group, nut definitely not as many goblins as the siege.this is kinda weird. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:48, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

== What about constructed walls? ==

The page says trolls will smash all buildings. But what about constructed walls? The Construction page says constructed walls/floors act as inert terrain objects. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 05:10, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
:[Building Destroyer]s like trolls ignore constructs like walls and floors, they only smash things like doors and bridges. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:22, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
::Ok, thanks. That was causing me some confusion. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 17:34, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

== Megabeasts ==

Could someone update my add-on about megabeasts? It was lacking info about them but it's pretty general right now. --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 16:30, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
:Could use an update, indeed! It's verified in the advanced world gen parameters that world generation stop is based on percentage of surviving megabeasts (default 80%), and that number can be modified when creating a world with advanced parameters (I myself typically lower it to 60%, in hopes of more roving hydras for my fortress to face). I would also write a few words about cage traps and the dangers they present to a fortress, as I once had a caged titan break out of his cage and lay waste to the inner sanctum of a fortress. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 17:55, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

===Megabeast Trigger ===

So, I'm in my 9th year with a population of 79 and haven't seen a megabeast yet, despite over 5 million in fortress wealth. I'd say the trigger has to be population and not wealth. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:50, 5 December 2008 (EST)

:: I'm on my 16th year, with a population of 201 and a created wealth of 1,330,775 ... no signs of a megabeast. --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 16:16, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== Mining ==

Is it possible for a human siege to mine into your base? I've played around in adventure mode and seen (and killed) a few human miners, so I was wondering if the humans were ever smart enough to bring one along and tunnel into your base. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 10:42, 9 November 2008 (EST)

Not yet, unfortunately. Rock walls and constructions of any type remain impervious. They can't fill in dry moats yet, either. Fortunately for the humans, a dwarf fortress can't survive indefinitely without imports, migrants, or fresh lumber, and human besiegers tend to be more cautious than goblins, so they can still endanger your survival indirectly. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 12:36, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:Currently my fortress is pretty well self sustaining, though due to pathfinding errors my dwarves refuse to take the inside stairs to my exploratory mining chamber. I'm at my population cap (130) and my food and drinks are fairly stable at 200 seeds, 500 alcohol, 600~700 prepared meals, and 300 plants. At the very least, I'm (very lucky to be) prepared for the next human siege (the first one was a group of pansies who managed to get killed without me noticing (long story short, I assigned my squads to a mountain near the humans for the high ground, and some crossbowdwarves went around the long way and shot their way through the humans (who didn't have any crossbowmen, at least not after the first volley of dwarven bolts) and left only a few for cleanup.

:Oh, did I mention my ''War [[Giant eagle]]?'' The thing kicks MAJOR ass. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 16:53, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::You can't have a war giant eagle. Dogs are the only thing that can be trained to war animals. Brag if you like, we all do it, but don't lie. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:16, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::: I edited the raws to make it trainable. And don't say that can't be done, they tell you how to do it (for elephants, but still) on this very Wiki.[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 17:19, 9 November 2008 (EST)

::::War eagles do sound pretty cool. Do their heads always face left, by the way?[http://www.snopes.com/history/american/turnhead.asp]--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:42, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Actually, I thought more along the lines of the SCREAMIN EAGLES! reference from Valve (it's what you get if you have feedback rank 10 on Steam, and the soldier shouts it in TF2, but I can't remember where it came from). You want to know the eagle's name, by the way? Tribeflags. Yeah, it's kind of a lame name, bu

''The above poster was found with this edit partially made, brutally mauled by a large bird like creature. If you wish to contact this person, consult the nearest dwarven shaman or bonespeaker. Thank you. '''Dwarven office of half finished notes cut short by death.'' [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 21:56, 9 November 2008 (EST)

==Goblin Morale==
Does anyone else find that the goblins have really bad moral? I just had 4 squads run away, because 3 goblins died. That wasn't even half a squad, and I really wanted the iron. Any thoughts on why they are so cowardly? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 21:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)

:It might be dependent on whether the squad leader gets killed. Hard to tell, though -- most battles are pretty chaotic.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:11, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::That might be it, the squad leader was the first to be cut in half by a trap :D [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 00:42, 5 December 2008 (EST)

:::ah, i was wondering why half of 'em ran off. 3 squads of goblins, two of about 10 and a main one of 15. after the first two had been anhialated (literally. not a scratch on any of my 20-strong crew), the larger squad started running away (or, diverted their path off to one side of the map, away from my fort), and the 'SIEGE' in the corner disappeared. but.. you'd have thought the leader would be in the main squad, right? it was a squad of 4 lashers (whip-users) and 11 wrestlers, with a single 'goblin spearmaster'. how can you tell who's the leader? and is it useful to chase them off? (apart from the obvious iron and such) perhaps stopping them coming back next time as part of a larger squad? --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 11:44, 7 March 2009 (EST)

== Siegers Listen to Orders ==
I can make my human siegers wait or not by changing orders; if dwarves are allowed to go outside, they will approach any usable entrances, but if I tell them to bunker down, they bugger off back to their campfires. "Pet Doors"(forbidden, pet-passable) are useful for this, since they allow siegers to approach but don't let dwarves outside to die.

==I Said Stay Inside!==
So I've taken the ramps off of a pair of hills, making them into circular towers of natural stone. Then I connected them with a wall. I put a door with a bridge over it to let me get through, and set it up so I could retract the bridge and isolate the second hill if necessary. I built a food stockpile and a meeting hall under the second hill. Then some goblins laid siege. I told the dwarves to stay inside. A squad of bowgoblins walked over to my wall. I didn't think this was a problem, until i started getting messages about dwarves bleeding to death. They were running across the wall to get to my backup food stockpile and meeting hall. Apparently they thought "I can't go outside, but the meeting hall isn't outside, so I should be ok to walk across this narrow walkway, completely exposing my silhouette to enemy fire. Y'know what, I'll take my baby with me." The only good thing was that the goblins were so busy shooting at my helpless dwarves and their pets that my pair of champion melee fighters were able to tear their flank a new one. Something should probably be updated to reflect that this can happen, but I don't know what and how. For now, I'll be widening the walls and lining them with fortifications. That should make them able to make the trip without dying, at least.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 07:49, 13 December 2008 (EST)
:I've also noticed this behavior with my Dwarves. It seems that they will always try and go to the meeting hall areas regardless of what the orders are. I have a meeting hall zone defined on some of my battlements in my current fortress and wondered why they would continue to mill about outside when I told them to go inside. After a while I just defined a new meeting hall underground and they started going inside. --[[User:Kuroneko|Kuroneko]] 16:41, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
::As has been mentioned somewhere else inside destinations are still valid in pathing. Fast dwarfs may also go a few tiles far before they cancel their task due to being outside. Also, I occasionally use outside meeting zones to lure dogs outside as guards (works fine) but have not yet had dwarfs go there too, or even try, when i had outside forbidden. Maybe it is because i always have inside meeting rooms/halls too. -- [[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 23:50, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

== Hungry, Hungry <s>Hippos</s> Goblins ==

So I have been collecting goblins from previous sieges and forcing them into an inescapable room with nothing restraining them, does anyone here know if they do eventually die uncaged? I want to set up a mega doomsday lever that lets 100+ goblins into my fortress.--[[User:Heliman|Heliman]] 23:32, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

== An End to Sieges? ==
Is there a limit to the number of attacks, or do they go on forever increasing. Personally i'm on my 19th year of a fortress
and haven't been attacked in about 2 years, no ambushes, no sieges. --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 22:03, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Strange mood

2009-08-07T07:16:58Z

Loganis: /* Detailed strange mood mechanics */

== Detailed strange mood mechanics ==
[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35257.msg545835#msg545835 see post] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:02, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

:& updated to include more/all of same. Also re-organized presentation to better fit expanded sub-sections.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 13:47, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:Now that we know so much about the mechanics of strange moods, what do you all think about moving that section to the bottom and protecting it with a "massive spoilers" warning the way [[thought|thoughts]] are? —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 19:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
::Works for me 100%. It would require a slight rewording/reworking of the "skills & workshops" subsection, for overall flow, perhaps splitting that info into the obvious and the not-so-obvious, to bridge the info leading into the "demands" subsection. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:15, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:::As long as it mentions that it has spoilers its perfect--[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 20:41, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== misc ==
Does the new version still have the strange mood? It wouldnt be complete without it!

:It still exists, I've had it happen several times now, I went to the archive wiki and copy/pasted the old page.

::Isnt that why the wiki was nuked? To make sure that no old info lingers? Ill put some "verify" in there, I dont think that the bold text is enough for users to understand that some of this may no longer apply. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 06:03, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:::I agree. Although moods themselves don't seem to have been changed in this version, the changes to the stones/ores that they use means that some of the information in this article is no longer true. I'll have a go at cleaning it up when I have the proper time for it, but this wiki definitely needs a 'no copypasting from the archives' rule to avoid screwups like this. If people are going to copypaste old stuff, then it is downright irresponsible of them not to verify the accuracy of the information before committing it to the wiki. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

I know, I was a huge fan of that little strange aspect of the old one.

I need my dwarfs to make more swordfish bone swords, and i still need some glass weapons/armor

The moods seem to have changed. One of my dwarfs went fey, made a nice hematite mug, and is now a legendary... Engraver. Very wierd, he also had no stoneworking or other craftdwarf skills. But he was a competent mason. This was also my fifth dwarf who took the same craftworkshop, so it's a bit strange. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 17:36, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Six fey dwarf, all took the craftdwarfshop, now my bowyer took one. Think it might be a bug. Is the 15 artifacts limit still in? --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:34, 8 November 2007 (EST)

:: Whohoo my second legendary engraver made a gold mug. My bowyer became a legendary engraver. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:40, 8 November 2007 (EST)
::: Scratch all that, one of my woodworkers just used a carpenters shop. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:Have you marked all statements in the article that risks being falsified with <nowiki>{{verify}}</nowiki>? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:41, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Hey, I am getting a dwarf who wants "raw...crystal". Help? -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]
:Probably wants raw crystal glass. I had a dwarf ask for "raw...green", they wanted raw green glass. Looks like Toady might have moved the glass demands out of the "rough...color" category. [[User:Iddq?|Iddq?]]

About the engravers taking over craftdwarf's shops and becoming legendary engravers afterwards is quite true. I recently got a bunch of immigrants, and the engraver that came with them fell into a strange mood before even crossing the bridge on my river. He took over a craftdwarf's workshop and made a basalt scepter, and now he's legendary level in engraving. So yeah, perfect laboratory conditions, he was 100% engraver when he went into his mood and came out a legendary engraver. --[[User:Zhang5|Zhang5]] 17:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)

It seems that no craft skill is required. I just had a peasant go into a strange mood. His skills were: competent marksdwarf; novice wrestler; novice armor wearer. He grabbed a craftsdwarf's workshop and 10 items (3xFelsite, Schorls, Tigereyes, Red Beryls, Giant cave swallow leather, Grizzly Bear Leather, Rough harlequin opals and Ash logs -- guess he has expensive taste?) and churned out an idol in relatively short order. This is my 9th successful mood in this fortress, and I've seen requests for between 3 and 10 items, personally. Since they seem to be increasing in complexity, I've either hit the item cap, or I'm about to break ten :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:34, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:This is consistent with older versions. Moody peasants would become crafters, and 10 items was the cap. The minimum was 1 item -- generally when constructing a "perfect gem".--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:55, 19 November 2007 (EST)

I had a miner go into a strange mood, take over a mason's workshop, and make a something that got him up to legendary miner status. In my current fort, I have had 6 artifacts made, 2 of which were actual moods and 5 of which were possessions (I can add, one of them failed and the dwarf became a babbling wreck). My dwarves love to use only one item: an oak door (1 item), an olivine coffin (2 items), a turtle shell mask (1 item and is my cheapest artifiact at 3600), a diorite amulet (3 items), and a perfect jelly opal (1 item). --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)

Where to add the info that in my game (.33c) a miner took over a mason's workshop, became legendary miner and then held the artifact in his right hand instead of a pick, which became 'hauled', then droped the pick and then took the pick with his left hand? He can mine after all these. While holding a 667 weight units cabinet in his right hand. --[[User:Another|Another]] 10:07, 1 December 2007 (EST)

I had dwarf Miller, profecienty Grower who had Fey Mood, and he became a Legendary Mason ....
Is it normal ? [[user:Feydreva|Feydreva]]

One of my dwarves has become possessed and is demanding cloth, bones and stone, which I have plenty of. But he refuses to go fetch them. Is there something I'm doing wrong?—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] ([[User talk:Patarak|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Patarak|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
: They want either silk or fiber cloth. Make sure you have both! [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 03:40, 21 January 2008 (EST)

Aargh! One of my dwarves went secretive and is demanding a huge list of stuff. He seems to be demanding two types of stone because the "sketches quarry" message stays on twice as long as the others. I have (and he has gathered) flint: is there any way to tell what kind of stone he wants? --[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 011:55, 7 March 2008 (EST)
==Glassmaker==
I had a Glassmaker that sat around when I had a lot of Magma Glass Furnaces, but then decided to get going when I made a regular Glass Furnace. Seems like they will only use a specific kind. Not sure yet if it's random. Might be they won't take the Magma Glass Furnace in version 38a. Can anyone verify? --[[User:Afbee|Afbee]] 05:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

: My Glassmaker successfully used Magma Glass Furnace in a fey mood. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 07:54, 24 February 2008 (EST)
:: I just had the same problem. I had a glass maker who wouldn't take over a magma glass furnace. Since I'm creating a glass fortress and had a mess of glass orders piled up, I thought that might have confused the AI and I built 2 more magma glass furnaces. No dice, he didn't want them. After reading this page I decided to create a normal glass furnace. He snapped it up as soon as it was built. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 04:07, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::I had the exact same experience as [[Alkyon]], namely I had lots of magma glass furnaces but they wanted a normal one. Anybody else confirm what [[Digger]] has experienced?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
:::This has been observed countless times with magma forges vs standard forges - no reason to expect it should be any diff w/ glass furnaces.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

==Maximum number of artifacts==
Well, I just got my umpteenth mood, and it resulted in the 16th successfully created artifact.(33b) So that 15 cap thing is clearly wrong. As it happens, this single artifact is worth 754,800, and is an adamantine spear decorated with, among other things, adamantine. For the record, in case this data is important to someone tabulating number of ingredients, my moods in order created the following objects using the corresponding number of ingredients: (Flute, 4; Mechanism, 4; Spear, 3; Millstone, 6; Ring, 8; Chest, 7; Cape, 7; Ring, 9; Statue, 8; Idol, 10; earring, 8; Buckler, 8; Table, 3; Mechanism, 10; Bracelet, 5; and Spear, 8). [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:54, 27 November 2007 (EST)

Do fell/macabre moods still exist? I haven't seen any for quite a few versions. It'd be nice to have that verified.—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] ([[User talk:Rabek|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rabek|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

== clarification on "trade" skills ==

Are trade skills all the skills that produce items with some level of quality? Mainly I want to know if dyer is a trade skill. And how does that work with miner? I didn't think miner was a trade skill. Maybe someone who knows more than me could clarify in the wiki.
I just got my first artifact. It's worth 2400. The dwarf took one log and made a scepter. -[[User:Radtse|Radtse]]

:I don't know exactly, we should make a list of the skills we know are not trade skills. I'll start: my brewer/grower once got a strange mood and made a wood item and gained woodcrafting skill. Let's try to only add to the list when we have experienced a moody dwarf with that skill only.--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 19:36, 27 December 2007 (EST)

::I'm adding Weaver and Furnace Operator to this list, since they're on the wiki. I haven't seen them myself, but I'm assuming someone else has. Knowing that Furnace Operator is a "fey-able" skill will be quite helpful.-[[User:Radtse|Radtse]] 18:28, 29 December 2007 (EST)

:::Where's cooking fit in? --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 20:09, 6 January 2008 (EST)

List of non-trade skills:

* [[Brewer]]
* [[Grower]]
* [[Miller]]
* [[Wood Cutter]]

Skills that may be used and gained by dwarves with no trade skills:

* [[Wood crafter]]
* [[Stone crafter]]

Skills that use a different skill(See list above), but give correct skill:

* [[Miner]]
* [[Engraver]]
* [[Furnace Operator]]
* [[Weaver]]

:::For the record, i can confirm both Furnace Operator and Weaver, since no one else has commented to verify them thus far. (The weaver actually surprised me when it happened). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

:::I can confirm that a Miner will claim a Mason's shop, and produce a stone item, even with no Mason skill at all. It works just like the wiki says. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 23:47, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

:::And I can confirm that Wood Cutter does not contribute -- I had a Novice Glassmaker/No Prefix Wood Cutter take a glass furnace. [[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 13:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== mood condition ==
The 20 dwarves / no crazy stuff has been found while looking at the binary of v0.27.169.33d, might be different now, but i don't think so. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 15:08, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Regarding the calulations for required maximum existing artifacts (items/200 and dugout/(48*48)) wouldn't it make more sense to either use the squared symbol, or the actual result of that square (which was the original number actually discovered/revealed I believe)? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:17, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:<sup>2</sup> --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 21:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

:20 dorf must be still there. I've made low-population fort and I had no mood for ~8 years (from start). I'm sure that I've digged at least 2700 tiles and created at least 300 items. I will test if raising population to 20 will cause moods. I think that 20 dwarf limit should be mentioned even if it's not confirmed. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 18:30, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

== Random Workshop Seizure ==

I just had a gem cutter seize a carpenter's workshop and make a perfect gem; upon completion I had a worthless Legendary dwarf and a new jeweler's workshop, so I guess that's still in from the previous version. I've removed the verify in the article. [[User:Tacroy|Tacroy]] 16:51, 9 January 2008 (EST)

:nonsense. Should be a bigger chance of making ZOMG high-quality gem crafts now ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 07:35, 18 February 2008 (EST)

::More to the point, if you don't like the profession your dwarf has Legendary in...draft for the stats! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== forbidden items ==

Do moody dwarfs use forbidden items? Will they demand forbid items? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 02:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

:I don't know whether moody dwarves will use forbidden items (my guess would be they won't). But they don't choose the demands based on what is on the map, they can and do demand things you don't have. So it's safe to assume forbidding doesn't prevent dwarves from demanding the forbidden kind of item. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

::Forbidden items are not used. Similarly, if your mooder slipped in e.g. an iron bar when you wanted him to use a platinum bar, you can forbid AND dump the item to stop him from using it. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:35, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

== Impossible Requests? ==
Will dwarves try to use items that you just don't have access to? I had a dwarf asking for silk when I haven't imported any and I'm pretty sure there isn't a giant spider anywhere. Also asking for "rocks" when I have mined at least one of each type of rock that is visible (requiring rocks from unmined areas seem pretty harsh). Also a request for "metal bars" when I have smeltered at least one of each ore I have found and made at least one of each possible alloy. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:27, 26 February 2008 (EST)
:Yeah, impossible stuff is all my dwarves ever want. :-P Right now mine appears to want stone I don't have, and no traders have come by with any stone.... So my guys are frantically mining in various directions.... [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 13:59, 7 March 2008 (EST)

::As far as i can tell they never request anything it is truly impossible for you to get. Available by trade seems to imply possible for the game engine though. Too bad if its the start of winter (which is when all my moods which require things I don't have and can't produce happen, of course). But if there's no sand on your map at all you will not be asked for glass, since you can't trade for sand. (If there's 5 tiles of sand under that underground lake you haven't found yet... sucks to be you - my first fortress lost 3 dwarves to this). So yes, requiring things present on the map that you haven't found yet appears to be possible and routine. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:48, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

== Procastinator! ==

I just had a moody dwarf demand bones, wood, rocks, and cloth.

He got the rocks okay, and then did nothing for ages. Then, as soon as the fire imp corpse rotted away, he ran down and got the bones, then ran over to my wood stockpile and got a piece of wood...

Do they need to get their ingredients in order now?--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 06:28, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:i think so, not that it matters, he wont start unless he has ALL the ingridents.

== gems ==
My moody dwarf asked for 2 kinds of rough gems, but i had cut all rough ones at that point. So i "printed out" all layers and started checking for leftover gems in the walls. Guess what, he picked the first 2 kinds i mined. So either

* random/pure luck (don't think so)
* they only ask what they "see"
* they only ask what is somehow on the map
* or they might even adapt somewhat to availability, but i doubt that. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:59, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:I believe, but don't know for sure, that sometimes they want specific items and sometimes they just want anything in a category of items, such as any rough gems in this case. It used to work that way in the 2d version, didn't it? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:23, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
::Confirming behaviour that BahamutZERO sees. Dwarves will '''always''' grab the closest object that falls under the category unless he is requesting a specific metal, specific silk, or specific plant fiber cloth. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:25, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

== Just standing around? ==

I have a dwarf who was possessed, but won't leave the main hall. He's also a novice in everything, but to be safe I've already cleared the shops. It's winter of my first year, but somehow I've already had 2 waves of immigrants. Back to the point, I'm afraid he's going to wait out the mood and go berserk. Help?
--[[User:Ilmmad|Ilmmad]] 20:00, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:Well, make sure u ve got one workshop of every possible kind available - there are however quite a few u dont need to build, its covered in the article. Check for locked doors or otherwise blocked access (bridges, channels, statues..) Dont forget furnaces, glass and magma. Check with 'q' if all workshops are completely build. If it doesnt help consider building workshops not related to his skills, or more "exotic" ones, like Ashery or Alchemist. No one can guarantee that Toady didnt have some new fun ideas ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:59, 6 March 2008 (EST)
Same thing happened to one of my lenegdary dwarves. He then went berserk in my legendary dining room.. in front of my crossbow champions. Blood ensued. And now it has happened again, my hard trained master glassmaker just stands in the meeting zone flashing purple excl. sign, despite the fact that magma glass furnace is up and running. Doh. --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 15:47, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
:And an update... this is pretty stupid. I've decided to build a regular glass furnace, just to see what happens, and guess what, my glassmaker happily proceeded to claim it and made me a ''Lushutilun Othornoshtath, Guilthaled the Erased Devourer'', a green glass statue. Neat-o. --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 16:02, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
::I can confirm this bug. I just had this happen to me too. I had three fully functional glass magma furnaces and he just stood in the middle of my meeting area. I went and built a regular glass furnace and he ran off and claimed it. Weird bug. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 04:10, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
:::Its not a bug, its a feature. --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 13:54, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

== stark raving suicide ==

My mechanic wanted silk cloth, which I didn't have, and eventually gone insane ("stark raving mad" to be precise).
Seconds after that I had message that he died in heat (I had artificial magma pool nearby).
He probably jumped into the pool like in melancholy. Main article states that only melancholic dwarves kill themselves in such way.
Could anyone confirm that mad ones do that too, and this wasn't just an accident/bug? [[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 16:59, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

:Perhaps it ''was'' an accident -- I seem to recall that "stark raving mad" ones wander around at random. Perhaps it wandered into the lava. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 18:30, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

::It was an accident, the stark raving mad ones wander around aimlessly, regardless of Z- levels. --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 12:53, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Glassmaker with no glass ==

I had an immigrant glassworker get a mood, seize a glass workshop, and created an artifact made entirely of gemstones. No glass involved or asked for. (No sand on the map, anyway.) He turned into a Legendary Glassworker, despite having never made a glass anything.

== Rewrite ==

I think I got most of the old information and then some into the new article. Please make any necessary modifications. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 01:22, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

== Silk Cloth ==

I had a dwarf demand silk cloth, but he refused to use my giant cave spider silk cloth. I didn't have any regular cave spider silk cloth. To verify that the silk was the problem, I used Companion to change the silk demand to any stone, and he immediately collected the rest of the materials and constructed the artifact.
Can anyone else confirm that giant cave spider silk cloth does '''not''' count as silk cloth? --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:55, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:No, I'm pretty sure I can't. I've seen a dwarf grab GCS silk. Could it be that you had thread and not cloth? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:59, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::Nope, giant cave spider cloth [3] sorted under cloth on the stock screen. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 16:52, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
Probably they may specifically require GCS silk or specifically require CS silk. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 14:10, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
I figured it out - the silk was outside and I had accidentally left "Dwarves Stay Inside" on after the latest attack. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:52, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

== Engineer taken by secretive mood, and creates... ==

Evidently engineers who are taken by a secretive mood ("withdraws from society", in case it's later determined that the descriptor has an effect) will have no problems taking over the mechanic's workshop. And there's only one thing mechanic-shops build - that's right, you heard right, ladies and gentlemen, I present ''Kodor ós: A claystone mechanism''. It's even available for use from the appropriate {{k|b}})uild screens. He decided to make this splendid 86,400o creation while on an eight-mechanism binge in that very same mechanic's workshop. Maybe dwarves choose the workshop they've been in the most often? --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

:Ah, actually I can confirm I've had a Mechanic create an artifact mechanism as well. Stick some obsidian swords in that baby and you'll be good to go! That should probably go in the main article for skills vs workshops... I would expect siege engineers also have strange moods, but I imagine pump op and siege op fall under the general craftsman catch-all --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 15:45, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::I'd like to smack BismuthBismuthBismuth with the facts stated in the article.
A dwarf will claim a workshop according to their highest applicable skill
::In this case it was Engineering and therefore your mechanic went to a Mechanic's Workshop. It's the same with the possessed glassmakers. They hit a glassmaker's shop. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:49, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:::I'd like to hit GreyMario-Maria, preferably in the upper-body region, with the fact that at the time of my post, the table in the article did not mention mechanics whatsoever. --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 22:26, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::::Pardon me, but I was not aware that ''mechanics'' worked at a ''mechanic's workshop'', where objects are created that have ''quality mofidiers'' and can thus become ''artifacts''. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:28, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:::::Pardon me as well, but it seems that the table in [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&oldid=25231 this particular revision] did not encapsulate this information. '''GreyMario is throwing a tantrum!''' --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:22, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
::::::Mechanics. Work at a mechanic's workshop. Produce items which have visible quality modifiers. Items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to be artifacts. THEREFORE, mechanics claim mechanic's workshops when they go fey. Seriously, logic sometimes, please? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:30, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
:::::::That would follow if we knew for certain that the proposition "items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to artifacts" is necessarily true. We don't. For instance, siege engine components are not verified as artifact eligible. Since that isn't a given, it's perfectly reasonable for people to not jump to the conclusion that a job type will create artifacts relevant to it until they see it happen. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 16:26, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

i love the absurd randomness factor with artifacts - you end up with really weird stuff. like grates, and socks. a question pertinent to legendary mechanisms - i got a stupidly valuable one of these as the first legendary item in a new fort and i used it to create a gear assembly in a public dining area in the hopes that it would give dwarves happy thoughts, but after a few years gametime of checking randomly on them nothing particular showed up. any particular use along these lines for legendary mechanisms for something other then simple fortress value? --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 11:51, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
: weapon traps! --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 12:03, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
:: FWIW, that might be a more general answer for artifact items... I had a Weaponsmith dwarf go into a strange mood and create a lead warhammer (Yes, there was plenty of steel and iron around, but this dwarf likes lead, I guess). It can't be equipped as a weapon (lead isn't a valid material type normally for constructing weapons) but I can put it into a weapons trap. Which... is basically the only thing I can do with this 65000* artifact... -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:37, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
::: Actually, artifact equipment can be used, it just requires a "hero" level dwarf or higher. However, for the nonstandard material weapons and armor you may do well to forbid them so that they're not used. The actual effectiveness of odd material artifacts is supposedly lower than that of decent iron or steel equipment, and artifact equipment cannot be unequipped once a dwarf decides to use it. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 15:36, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
:Build your artifact mechanism into a really, really, really wonderful well. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 11:37, 13 December 2008 (EST)

== Tanner fixed ==

I just had a Tanner claim a leather works, not a tannery. I updated the table. For the record, the dwarf has no skill level in leather working.

:I wonder if Tanners even claim Tanner's shops? Tanner's shops just make leather, and leather doesn't have quality modifiers, so you shouldn't be able to produce an artifact from one, aye? That information came from an older version of the page, I wonder if it was inaccurate. Weavers supposed claim Clothier's shops and not Looms, so it would make sense if Tanners were the same way. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 18:08, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

== Cooks ==

I can confirm that cooks do not produce artifacts: my Peasant with Dabbling Cook/Brewer/(various social) and nothing else just took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop. I'm removing the verify tag for cooks in the article. --[[User:Comonad|Comonad]] 16:16, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

mmmm. . . . artifact roast. [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 19:12, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

== Soapers etc. ==

It stands to reason that soapers, lye makers, and wood burners wouldn't make artifacts. Neither soap, lye, charcoal, nor ash have quality modifiers, and that's all those skills can produce. I'm pretty sure you can't have artifact soap, lye, charcoal, or ash. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 20:26, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

: My woodburner just got possessed. He wants a shell and wood. I have the shell but I'm not sure what type of wood he wants. --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 20:18, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

: I just had a Soap Maker (his only skill, a fresh immigrant) get possessed. He took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop and with an obsidian stone, 3x turtle shells and a giant cave spider silk cloth and made a turtle shell toy boat. --[[User:Cal|Cal]] 01:32, 20 April 2009 (CDT)

== Not all demands need to be met ==

I just had a dwarf taken by a secretive mood and collect a huge variety of things: 4 stone, 1 block, 1 gem, 2 rough gems, bones, a shell, 2 leather. He was further sketching for more bones, 2 leather, another stone, a log, another shell, and raw green glass. The only things I didn't have on hand were the shell and the green glass -- dwarves seem to go through their list in order, and get stuck on certain items.

I just hoped someone would eat a turtle (50/1678 chance!) and queued a raw green glass. When the glass was made, he got started, totally ignoring his previous requests for wood, another shell, and the other things. Anyone else have this experience? [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 13:28, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

:I think they keep sketching images even after they get the items. Your dwarf already had all of the shells, leather, bones, stones, blocks, and gems he needed. [[User:Curudan|Curudan]] 15:26, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

::This is correct. I've had dwarves run out, grab two items, and then sit at the Workshop shouting a need for three items. When the item he was waiting on became available, he ran out, grabbed it, went back in, and started working. So it's pretty evident that they list ALL of the items they want, regardless of how many of them they've already collected. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 22:28, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

== Possession ==

I've had 14 moods in my current Fortress, 11 of them have been possessions. Am I really unlucky, or is the type of mood weighted? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
: As far as I can tell by looking at the game logic, each mood types are as likely to be rolled (except fell of course, which is selected if happiness<rand(128) or something like that). --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:56, 3 September 2008 (EDT)
:: I had a feeling I was just getting really unlucky, thanks. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:34, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

== Furnace Operator ==

Apparently furnace operator is no longer a mood skill as of df 28 181 40d. I just had a expert furnace operator take over a Craftdwarf's Workshop and become a legendary stonecrafter. [[User:Otherdwarf|Otherdwarf]] 10:26, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
:I had one take over a mason's workshop, I would guess that Furnace Operator is treating like Engraver or Miner. I'm kind of disappointed, I was hoping he'd churn out an artifact coke or something.[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 13:03, 14 November 2008 (EST)

::Back when furnace operator was moodable, they'd turn out metal crafts. But taking over a mason's workshop is surprising. Occasionally they'll take over a random workshop and convert it into the type they want -- what artifact did the dwarf produce? And, just to rule out some obvious things, did the dwarf have dabbling skill in mining, masonry, or engraving?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:51, 14 November 2008 (EST)
:::He went crazy looking for some kind of rough gem, so we'll never know. It was ''right'' after the dwarf trading caravan left, too, so I really had no chance whatsoever. I don't know for sure what skills he had, I don't think he had much other than Furnace Operator, Architect, and the social skills though. I ''might'' have enabled mining, but there was plenty of work for him at the smelter so I don't know for sure.--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 15:56, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Chunk Butchery? ==

Well, even though the selection of items for artifacts is totally random, its a bit wierd if a macabre dwarf goes to a butcher's workshop and starts bringing in tons of dwarf CHUNKS! My dwarf just started doing that, should I expect rotting meat (yes, the chunks are already rotten)? - 09:57, 30 October 2008 Stinhad Limarezum
: ^_^ "This is a delicious meat pie. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. On the item is an image of a dwarf and dwarves in rotting dwarf chunks. The dwarf is baking the other dwarves into meat pies. The artwork relates to the rise of the dwarf butcher Sweeney Todd as the cook of The Fleet Street in 78" -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:11, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:Oh, ''do'' post the description of the artifact when the dwarf completes it. ("Menaces with spikes of dwarf chunk?" I'd be intimidated for sure.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:18, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== What Workshop? ==

Is there any way to discover what workshop a dwarf in a secretive mood requires? I had nearly everything. I built a siege workshop and a bowery before I ran out of ideas and he went beserk. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 10:55, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:You have to look at what skills he has first and rule out the obvious. If he has no mood-able skills then it's going to be a craftsdwarf's workshop. If you have hit magma and he wants a forge or glass furnace, he will insist on the magma version of that workshop. Finally, maybe one of your existing workshops was inaccessible or you accidentally [[forbid]] it at some point. If none of that works, I'm out of ideas too.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:01, 3 November 2008 (EST)
::I have a functioning magma glass furnace and I had to build a normal glass furnace when my glass maker became secretive. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:23, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Same here, in fact I had 2 moody glass making dwarves refuse to use anything but a normal glass furnace when there were 5 fully functional magma glass furnaces in the same fort. (sorry, almost forgot to sign) --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:27, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Ditto. A glassmaker got possessed and refused to use my magma glass furnace. I had to build a regular one. --[[User:Schwern|Schwern]] 19:33, 27 December 2008 (EST)

:::Ah. In older versions, they'd insist on a magma workshop, when possible. Do they now insist on using a regular workshop, or has anyone seen a moody dwarf use a magma workshop in recent versions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::::I believe my metalsmith is waiting for my magma forge to come on line, I have a standard forge built, but that isn't doing anything for him. Does anyone know what effect fluctuating power will have on the strange mood? Edit: If a claimed workshop looses power for even a millisecond, the mood fails. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 12:02, 18 November 2008 (EST)
::::I can confirm that an Armorsmith will use a magma furnace, and if the furnace loses magma after it is claimed (Even if the dwarf is out collecting materials), the mood will fail. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 07:22, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

== Possessed Child ==

I have a child that has become possessed and taken over one of my craft workshops (of course). He is muttering the following: rough color, leather skin, bone yes, stone rock, cloth thread, blocks bricks, and a shell. He has already acquired the following: turtle bones, donkey bones [4], microcline blocks, turtle shell, rough pink garnets, dog leather, carp leather, and hematite. I have plenty of all the things that he's already gathered, so I'm assuming that he doesn't need anymore of those items. That leaves the thread. I have turned off my auto-loom a while ago so that I would keep the thread around for artifacts. I currently have plenty of plant thread (4 pig tail and 14 rope reed) and enough spider silk (5). What I don't have is giant spider silk. I have confirmed that the child has access to all these items, including the thread which I have piles next to his workshop. Still he doesn't start construction.

Can any help? Is there a difference for artifact creation between regular cave spider silk and giant cave spider silk? ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]

:Do you have both silk and plant cloth available? (Not just thread.) And do you see any specific cloth preferences in his thoughts and preferences screen?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:32, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::Argh. I bet that's it. No silk cloth, just thread. I have had guys go crazy for lack of thread before, so I never make silk cloth, just kept the thread. Oh well, the child is now melancholy. I can re-load and see what would happen if I make the thread into cloth. Maybe I'll test that out. ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]

::: Wouldn't you be able to solve this problem by only weaving dyed thread? Then you'll always have some thread waiting to be dyed. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 03:04, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::::You could also leave high quality, expensive materials lying around Forbidden, and only Claim them when someone's trying to make an artifact. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 15:07, 11 November 2008 (EST)

== Getting More Strange Moods ==

According to the article, the number of artifacts is limited by "The number of items created divided by 200." This indicates that making bolts (5 for each bone or 25 for each log) or brewing (5 units of drink for each unit of plant brewed) are efficient ways to encourage strange moods. Does that sound accurate?

It also states that the number of revealed subterranean tiles is a limit. Does that mean an area like a chasm, where many tiles are revealed to start with, will produce more strange moods?

Also, does anyone know whether the division rounds up or down? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 22:24, 16 November 2008 (EST)

:I'd be willing to bet all stacks count as only one "item" for this kind of calculation. 200 sounds like a paltry number, however. If rocks are counted as items, most fortresses have thousands of them in just a few years. The other number is what is most significant (I wonder where the heck it comes from?) I've had four miners digging non-stop for about 10 years now, and my stocks menu says I have 70,000 stones. Allowing for underground soil tiles (which don't produce stone) and stone/ore consumed by industry, each miner can probably clear about 2,000 tiles a year: one artifact. I have 21 artifacts in my fortress now (and two failed moods early on), so if that rate is indicative, I'd say you want to employ three or more miners non-stop to maximize your chances.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:09, 17 November 2008 (EST)

::The guy who wrote [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stone_management#Block_Stockpile this] doesn't seem to think that stones count as created items. Also, "revealed tiles" is ambiguous. For example, [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Exploratory_mining#Mine_shafts this] method is very good at showing you what's inside of a tile without actually mining it out. Do you suppose that seeing whats inside is enough?

::Where do you think these numbers came from anyway? I'm gonna take a look through the edit history and try to track them down. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:15, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::They came during [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&diff=25038&oldid=24936 this edit]. They're so specific I've got to think the author did some poking around with a disassembler. Again, though, 200 is such a paltry number. If underground "open space" counts, then discovering a chasm, bottomless pit, or magma pipe should many thousands thousands of revealed tiles. If underground floor tiles are needed, you'll have to mine most of them out yourself.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:34, 17 November 2008 (EST)

::::I had a chat with [[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] over at his talk page, since he edited the page around the time the changes were made. He seemed fairly certain that all you had to do to "reveal" a tile was to have a passable square next to it, so I edited the article to reflect that. He did not, however, know anything about how bolts or stones would affect things. Right now my hopes are on [[User:Marble_Dice|Marble Dice]], whom I believe made the actual addition. I'm not sure if he's a very active user though.

::::By the way, the reason I'm doing all this is that I'm considering optimizing a fortress for strange moods: have '''lots''' of dwarves with only "dabbling" in a single strange mood skill to gain maximum benefit from the moods. Any ideas for fortress strategies that will go well with this? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 02:44, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::::I saw the conversation -- I keep my eye on [[Special:Recentchanges]]. What he says about "reveal" is correct, as far as I know. I still wonder about "open space" tiles. If they count as revealed, all you really need to do is find a chasm/pit/magma pipe and you'll be in moods for years to come.

:::::I've done the dabbling strategy in the past. It's best to emphasize just a few skills you really really want that are otherwise hard to train due to limited materials -- armorsmith, weaponsmith, bone carver, leatherworker, carpenter, etc. It works fine with any fortress strategy.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:30, 17 November 2008 (EST)

== Two missing labors ==

Strand Extractor and Blacksmith don't currently appear in either the Causes Moods category or the Doesn't Cause Moods category. I put Strand Extractor in Doesn't Cause Moods and the Blacksmith in Causes Moods; feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 19:59, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:I can confirm that blacksmith is moodable, I've got a nice steel chest to show for it. It stands to reason that strand extractor isn't moodable, but we don't know for sure -- I've slapped a verify on it.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:01, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:Confirmed that strand extractor doesnt have an associated strange mood. My strand extractor/fish cleaner/grower entered a strange mood and became a legendary bone carver. --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 06:15, 9 February 2009 (EST)

== Order of stuff ==

I'm wondering if dwarves always claim items in a certain order. For example, when a dwarf wants three pieces of wood he always wants them back-to-back, never wood gem wood bone wood. So are types ALWAYS in a certain order? My current moody dwarf wanted two bars of metal, then spider silk cloth, then ash logs, then bones, then a rough gem, then a shell. Knowing the order might help you guess what the dwarf wants next if he doesn't need to wait for anything (and thus tell you what he wants). This might be useful for micromanaging forbidding stuff to make sure your dwarf gets the highest value things available. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:19, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:<s>This is actually well-defined in the article, if you'd bothered to look close enough. Dwarves will gather items in the order they scream their demands in.</s> It's unknown. I think there's no real order, just similar things end up grouped together. :V --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:32, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::fail. Uh, I mean, as soon as anyone else sees a strange mood, it can either be disproven, or we can start putting some data together immediately and be done pretty quick. I saw: Metal Bars, Silk Cloth, Wood, Bones, Rough Gem, Shell. If anyone sees bones before wood or something, that means there's no guaranteed order. But no harm done. :) --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:36, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:::It's simpler than that. Items have a certain number of slots for improvements, and for artifacts the first improvement slot is always filled by the base material of the item. Then the rest are filled in order, with whatever is a valid candidate for that slot (which is probably 'anything that's anything' in every case, though I'm not absolutely sure.) So, there isn't any explicit sorting because it has to be in order.

:::If you fill an item's slots with ordinary decoration, which is easiest to do by encrusting a wide variety of gems on a piece of furniture or the like, you'll see what I mean. Maybe. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 23:40, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::::Ah! So you're saying that instead of generating a list of ingredients, it first plans out the artifact itself, saying "This one is a chest, it has hanging rings and an image, first let's get a material for the chest, then a material for the hanging rings, then a material for the image"? That makes a ton of sense, and answers my question. Thanks! --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:47, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Well, I know it doesn't do that, because if you close the game and reopen it, you can get different items... With my elf game, I had one artifact that came out as either a thong, a left mitten, or a rope on five tries. But it's roughly the same idea, even with the details randomized upon creation. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 00:05, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Fell Mood Demands ==

It looks like when a brooding dwarf sits in the tanner's shop and says he needs "Things..." what he's looking for is vermin remains. Other demands are like in Fey moods. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 22:24, 3 December 2008 (EST)

== Confusing macabre mood ==

My mayor just entered one, while 'quite content', claimed a smelter, waited for a bit, until the parts appeared (the vermin must have died). He then created a roach rock chitin bracelet, and gained the carpenter skill. Am I missing something here? Smelter, rock and carpenter don't seem to mix well... Note: The only skills were proficient cook and fish cleaner, with some dabbling and noice social.--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 13:03, 6 December 2008 (EST)

:Carpenter? Or wood crafter? Claiming a smelter isn't out of the question: they sometimes grab a random workshop and turn it into the one they want (is it still a smelter?). And what is roach rock? Give the actual description of the artifact.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:14, 6 December 2008 (EST)

::Carpenter. It's still a smelter, yes. "This is a large roach chitin bracelet. All craftsdwaftship is of the highest quality. It is encircled with bands of large roach chitin and dwarf bone. This object menaces with spikes of rat leather."--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 15:32, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:::Hmm. Post that one on the forums, find out if it's an actual bug. Does sound pretty nonstandard.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:50, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:::: :-D Pretty sure that a roach is an actual bug. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:00, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:::::D'oh.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:56, 8 December 2008 (EST)

::::::I did have two very close together, but I am certain that neither had any carpenter skill, and the smelter was claimed.

: I've just had a similar occurance. Immediately after a goblin ambush (that killed 5 of my soldiers and caused major unhappiness in many dwarves), one dwarf that had lost a friend but was just "content" clained a tanner's workshop, grabbed a rhesus macque chunk, and made a rather boring rhesus macaque leather amulet (no embelishments apart from rhesus macaque leather bands). It did have quite an impressive name though - Gethustongos Nelas Luror, "Harshtainted the Flicker of Cruelties". The dwarf herself became a Legendary Weaponsmith, despite having no weaponsmithing skill! (Her highest skill was unlabled armoring). [[User:Iapetus|Iapetus]] 19:47, 10 January 2009 (EST)
::I imagine the requirement for a macabre/fell mood is having a thought psychology of less than 0 (being 'unhappy'). "Quite Content" shows up until -25, and then 'fine' is -26 to -50, so either of these diagnoses would theoretically qualify for a fell/macabre mood. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:05, 14 January 2009 (EST)

:I think macabre moods have a bug or something. I had a fisherdwarf go macabre, and he was definitely very unhappy since my fortress had fallen into a terrible state of unhappiness (ask me some other time). He went to a butcher's workshop and made a Large Roach Chitin Ring. I can't remember what skill he got but it was definitely not leatherworking or butchery.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 05:31, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== Rough Gems ==

EVERY Fey Mood that has happened for the last 3 years has required Rough Gems! Argh! Mining out an entire Z-level has found ONE GEM, which I was idiotic enough to cut the instant I found it. I do not have Rough Gems. You cannot buy Rough Gems. My fortress will die slowly and painfully without Rough Gems. Cut green glass is good enough when a fey dwarf demands cut gems, why isn't raw green glass good enough when they want rough gems? Can it be made good enough with a mod? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 11:19, 13 December 2008 (EST)

:Dig down to an igneous intrusive level - they have more gems. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:19, 13 December 2008 (EST)

::To mod out gem-demanding fey dwarves, you could remove all gems and then generate a new world. Alternatively, if you don't mind the lack of moods, turn them off in init.txt. Personally, I highly dislike moods, since they just make it that much easier to have abundant so-called "legendary" dwarves, although the random killer effect is quite nice. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:15, 13 December 2008 (EST)

:Regarding "why isn't raw green glass good enough when they want rough gems" -- it is good enough. I've had fey dwarves grab raw green glass a half-dozen times. I think it's more likely that all the raw green glass in your fortress was TASKED, and therefore unavailable to the fey dwarf. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:16, 12 January 2009 (EST)

==Trapper?==
Has anyone seen a dwarf get trapper experience from a mood? I've made a couple of artifact animal traps at this point, and all of them were by dwarves without the trapper skill who received xp in skills related to the material. (ie, my turtle-shell animal trap was made by someone who became a legendary bonecarver therefrom). I know I made a similar comment on the Trapper talk page. From the other end, I'm sure I've had immigrant trappers get moods before and have never seen a legendary trapper, although I don't recall specifically enough to be certain they had moods. But I've seen zero evidence that Trapper is actually a moodable skill. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:00, 15 December 2008 (EST)

==Craftdwarf's Workshop==
I just had a lye maker take over a metalsmith's forge and turn out a bracelet; now he's a legendary metalcrafter. I think that "Dwarves with only the following skills will construct their artifact at a craftsdwarf's workshop..." might be too constrictive, and that such dwarves could seize any craftdwarf-related workshop (including forges and carpenter's shops), not just a craftdwarf's workshop. Anyone else observed this behavior? --[[User:Wingus|Wingus]] 09:55, 22 December 2008 (EST)

:You're certain that the dwarf in question had no experience in any other tasks? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 11:19, 22 December 2008 (EST)

:Yes, the lyemaker had no other (non-social) skills. He was a recent immigrant I was using as a hauler. --[[User:Wingus|Wingus]] 11:35, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::There have been quite a few anomalous moods that we haven't documented properly yet.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 22 December 2008 (EST)

Figure this falls here. Had a Potash Maker refuse every shop I built, I had thought I had a craft shop. Turns out it was forbidden, I reclaimed it and he claimed it for his mood. I think this is verified.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 15:18, 3 January 2009 (EST)

== Time limit of a mood. ==

Do we have a fix on the exact time the player has to satisfy a mood before the dwarf goes insane? Any clue on whether it's fixed or variable?
--[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 12:04, 27 December 2008 (EST)
:I don't have a specific time limit, nor have I checked for variability, but 60 days/2 months is very close to the limit in my experience. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:18, 12 January 2009 (EST)

== Injured with Mood? ==

I recently had a recruit break his arm in sparring, you know... dwarf stuff, anyways he went into a strange mood and now hes magically up out of bed and walking around to the workshop. Will this work too if the dwarf has a broken leg? EDIT: The dwarf just fell on the ground unconcsious... This could be a big problem

:I just had a dwarf who'd been resting for months with a broken left upper leg and broken lower body rise up and crawl to the mason's workshop. The power of Armok compels her! [[User:Heartofgoldfish|Heartofgoldfish]] 02:44, 13 February 2009 (EST)
::Her injuries weren't ones that would make her pass out, and so, she's completed Nishuthir, a limestone weapon rack! [[User:Heartofgoldfish|Heartofgoldfish]] 03:53, 13 February 2009 (EST)

==Siege Operator==
Is listed in the table as using a mechanics workshop. In the text to the left of the table says the dwarf will use a craftsdwarf's workshop. Which is correct?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 13:16, 2 March 2009 (EST)

:Siege operation produces nothing, so I'm fairly certain they use a craftdwarfs shop. But then, I've never had a Siege Operator (as highest skill) have a mood, so i can't absolutely verify that. I'd say even Siege Engineers need verification on what they do with moods - I've never seen one. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 20:54, 2 March 2009 (EST)
::I agree with your comments. Since I am using siege operators as a cross-training tool, several of my dwarfs are at legendary status. Each of them are dabbling weapon/armor smiths, so I'll update it when they get a mood. My last mood was a soldier with lots of soldier skills, but dabbling in metalwork, armor, and weaponsmith. I got a legendary weaponsmith out of it - Woot! Woot!
::As for the Siege engineer, I don't think they would produce a catapult or ballista part artifact. It just doesn't make sense. But, I agree, we definitely need to verify that one. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 13:50, 3 March 2009 (EST)
::I had a dwarf (legendary siege op., novice clothes, stone crafter, dabbling other things) get a mood. He took a craftsdwarf's workshop. [[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]], do you want to fix the front page?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:58, 4 March 2009 (EST)
:::Reasonably certain I already made the correct change on presumption, but i'll take a look. (done) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 08:20, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::I edited that in about a month ago when I had an SO get a special mood and, yes, he claimed a mechanic's workshop. Probably worth verifying that independently but that's certainly what happened to me. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:13, 5 March 2009 (EST)
:::::The question would be 'was his highest mood skill mechanics', because that would cause him to take a mechanics workshop despite being a Siege Operator. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:36, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::::I'm pretty sure I checked and that it was siege operation; although I wouldn't swear that I remember it clearly, I'd like to think that I would have checked before wikifying it. Certainly worth keeping the verify tag for now, though. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:51, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::::I had a SO with no other skills take a craftdwarf's shop. He was a peasant before I made him train in SO. I can't yet verify siege engineer (The skill that produces catapult parts). It would make sense. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 08:57, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::::In that case, my apologies. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:02, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

==Butcher==
Had a Butcher/Dabbling Tanner become a Legendary Tanner after a mood. Verified. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 08:23, 5 March 2009 (EST)

==Lye Maker==
Immigrant Lye Maker/Dabbling Leather Worker became a Legendary Leather Worker after a mood. Verified. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:31, 5 March 2009 (EST)

==Weirdness==
I just had a dwarf with legendary siege operator/legendary pump operator/legendary record keeper/ competent mason /previous mayor, so various levels of social and military skills that took a craftsdwarf's shop. I would have thought he'd take the mason's shop according to the rules here. Maybe the record keeper ALWAYS takes the craftdwarf's shop? Also, it was a possessed mood, so maybe that makes a difference?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 11:31, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

Weird. I've had Legendary record keepers take appropriate workshops for their mood skills. Ditto pump operator. All my siege operators end up being dwarves who ended up with useless mood skills (generally because they had moods as children), but that would be really weird if SO was considered a moodable skill that took the *craftdwarf* workshop. Too bad it was possession, we can't see where he got xp. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:04, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

:There's evidence that if the highest skill doesn't have a workshop, they'll switch to the next highest skill, and if that doesn't have a workshop, the next after that. Possibly, the game only checks this a certain number of times, say, twice, and then defaults to craftsman's workshop. This would eliminate instances where maybe a peasant has constructed a wall or two in his time, but he's a much better comedian, liar, and pacifier. Obviously, he's not a mason of any sort, so he defaults to craftsdwarf. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 06:24, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I've had a couple possessed dwarves take craftdwarf's shops even though they had an applicable skill. I think that maybe the rules are a little difference for possesion; it would make sense since if you're possessed it shouldn't be your skills that matter. I don't know if this is just a fluke though, so it would be good to have confirmation. --[[User:Lemursdon'texist|Lemursdon'texist]] 16:53, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

:Mikaka, I don't agree. In my experience, if the highest '''moodable''' skill workshop doesn't exist, the dwarf just wonders around (and will eventually go insane unless the building gets built). I take my non-mood dwarfs (dyers, farmers, furnace operators) and have them make ONE piece of armor. When they get a mood, they always go to the forge and become legendary armorsmiths. Possessions, like Lemurs mentioned above, are different from other moods. Skills don't matter and they don't get experience for it.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:11, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

==Kablebes==

Craftsdwarf's Workshop

This building has been claimed by Zas Dedukudil, Farmer.

Zas Dedukudil keeps muttering Kablebes...

That is all. No other mutterings, nothing. --[[User:Zphobic|Zphobic]] 21:23, 15 April 2009 (CST)

::He's muttering the name of the thing that he will eventually produce. Don't worry about it, he's got everything he needs and is working. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:05, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== military ==
"Further, dwarfs with a military profession other than "Recruit" can '''not''' enter moods"

Does this mean that they can't be moody ''while'' being soldier and, as that, say, marksdwarf, but they can be moody as civilians while having skill in marksdwarf ''or'' does it not matter if soldier or civilian as long as marksdwarf is not their highest skill? --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 19:28, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
:I would need to look at the disassembly again to be absolutely sure, but what I remember is that if a military skill is their highest (non-social) skill, they won't enter into moods.   —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 00:47, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
::Hol - it's all about [[profession]]s. 0x5 - that's what your analysis of this said when you posted it on the forums. Military professions simply don't take moods. I'll edit and emphasize/clarify that.
::EDIT - Gah. Now that I'm half-way into it, I know how moods work, but I'm starting to doubt how the game reads "professions" - does activating change a dwarf's profession in the eyes of Moods? If a legendary Brewer has 2 ranks of hammerdwarf and are activated, are they a "brewer" or a "macedwarf"? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:01, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Personality ==

I'm 90% certain personality traits like "feels strong urges" "has a fertile imagination" and one other trait greatly influence the development of moods.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Eerr|Eerr]]
:I believe that you feel this way. Care to expand on why, and exactly what influence you believe they have? (and what that "one other trait" is?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:21, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

==Miner is moodable?==

Just had a legendary miner with no masonry, not even dabbling, claim a masonry shop and made a marble coffer artifact. He was in a secretive mood. It was even weirder in that he gained no experience even though he was not possessed. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 02:26, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

:He probably did gain experience - just in mining. Since he was already advanced skill wise, he wouldn't even get any attributes from the bump in experience.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 02:29, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

::This is all covered in the article - read Skills and workshops and check the list for miner --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 02:33, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

::: whoops missed it >.> Wait, why isn't miner on the moodable list then? Do people not know if it is weighted at 6? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:22, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::: Ummm... it's there on the moodable list, right between metalsmith and stone crafter. As for weighting... hmmm, you're right, and no mention of it in the original forum thread (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35257.msg545835#msg545835). Have to ask [[User:0x517A5D]], the original researcher. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Read it again. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:21, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
::::::Honestly, I liked it better the other way - it was a positive confirmation of any and every relevant profession, and emphasized both profession vs. skill, and also moodable professions vs. non-moodable, both of which some players are vague on. As you've correctly pointed out before, why delete any useful info once it's up? (Do you know for a fact that Miner is one of the non-weighted professions?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:44, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Deleting info? The current version delivers all of the information of the previous version except in a more compact way. I don't believe in inflating the size of an article when it neither delivers more information nor makes it easier to access. Doing so only introduces errors when editing it and interpreting it. The situation of doubt over the miner was caused by an error of omission when the section was [http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php?title=Strange_mood&diff=next&oldid=41277917 changed] from something similar to the current version to create the three section table. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
::::If possible, birthright likes detailed lists for their explicitness, and feels they ''are'' easier accessible sometimes. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 23:48, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

== nonsense - expl. m. focuses on '''not''' mining a lot of stone ==

Why is any one particular mining method better for increasing your artifact limit? All we care about is pure mass mined, right? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

: It's the quantity of revealed tiles that counts. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:59, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
::Yes, '''revealed'''. I both forgot and misread that and bow my head in shame --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 13:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

== Happiness ==
I've added a little remark in mood types about the happiness state of moody dwarves at the moment of the announcement. I had 7 different fortresses with at least 5 artifacts in each. All the time my possessed dwarves were "quite content", while fey and secretive were "happy" or even "ecstatic". Royal dining rooms ahoy!– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Insecticide|Insecticide]]
:I agree this seems to be the case. All my "quite content" dwares turn possessed. This is very likely also because we know you need to be unhappy for a fell mood. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 08:45, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
:Okay upon further research, you ''can'' get a fey mood when quite content. However, ''all'' of my possessed dwarves were quite content. More research would be nice :) [[User:Greep|Greep]] 08:14, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
::Toady is a mean little bitch. I pride myself in a 100% ecstatic fortress and yet i have the occasional posessed mood and yes, they are all quite content. This nagged me badly and so i did a bit save game juggling: All posessed dwarfs, 5 so far, were ecstatic ''before'' being posessed and ''content'' after. In 2 cases i could even reload a save just 2 days back and all 5 had the same thoughts displayed. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 22:49, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
:::Hmmm, yes I just noticed that tantrums work the same way. I had a dwarf get his only masterpiece defaced so he's at -1000. He throws a tanturm and magically goes from miserable to very unhappy. Then after the tantrum goes back to miserable. It's happened 4 times in a row with him [[User:Greep|Greep]] 02:53, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
::::It seems the same applies to secretive moods, will collect more data. It might be implemented this way to ensure a proper chance of the artifact to fail - along the lines of fey: hey lets build a great thingy versus secret and posessed: I NEED to do this --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 10:27, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

== Obok not playing by the rules? ==
"If two skills are at the same experience, the first listed for that dwarf will be the one affected by the mood."

Novice Mason, Novice Engraver - First listed was Mason, but he became legendary engraver. Does this mean he had more XP as engraver but was still novice or is the statement just wrong? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 02:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:It depends on the exact amount of [[Experience|experience points]] they have in each skill. There's not really an in-game way to see this, but [[User:Bartavelle/DwarfCompanion|Dwarf Companion]] will show it.    —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 20:13, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Strange mood

2009-08-06T20:41:12Z

Loganis: /* Detailed strange mood mechanics */

== Detailed strange mood mechanics ==
[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35257.msg545835#msg545835 see post] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:02, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

:& updated to include more/all of same. Also re-organized presentation to better fit expanded sub-sections.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 13:47, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:Now that we know so much about the mechanics of strange moods, what do you all think about moving that section to the bottom and protecting it with a "massive spoilers" warning the way [[thought|thoughts]] are? —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 19:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
::Works for me 100%. It would require a slight rewording/reworking of the "skills & workshops" subsection, for overall flow, perhaps splitting that info into the obvious and the not-so-obvious, to bridge the info leading into the "demands" subsection. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:15, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:::As long as it has spoilers its perfect--[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 20:41, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== misc ==
Does the new version still have the strange mood? It wouldnt be complete without it!

:It still exists, I've had it happen several times now, I went to the archive wiki and copy/pasted the old page.

::Isnt that why the wiki was nuked? To make sure that no old info lingers? Ill put some "verify" in there, I dont think that the bold text is enough for users to understand that some of this may no longer apply. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 06:03, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:::I agree. Although moods themselves don't seem to have been changed in this version, the changes to the stones/ores that they use means that some of the information in this article is no longer true. I'll have a go at cleaning it up when I have the proper time for it, but this wiki definitely needs a 'no copypasting from the archives' rule to avoid screwups like this. If people are going to copypaste old stuff, then it is downright irresponsible of them not to verify the accuracy of the information before committing it to the wiki. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

I know, I was a huge fan of that little strange aspect of the old one.

I need my dwarfs to make more swordfish bone swords, and i still need some glass weapons/armor

The moods seem to have changed. One of my dwarfs went fey, made a nice hematite mug, and is now a legendary... Engraver. Very wierd, he also had no stoneworking or other craftdwarf skills. But he was a competent mason. This was also my fifth dwarf who took the same craftworkshop, so it's a bit strange. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 17:36, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Six fey dwarf, all took the craftdwarfshop, now my bowyer took one. Think it might be a bug. Is the 15 artifacts limit still in? --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:34, 8 November 2007 (EST)

:: Whohoo my second legendary engraver made a gold mug. My bowyer became a legendary engraver. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:40, 8 November 2007 (EST)
::: Scratch all that, one of my woodworkers just used a carpenters shop. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:Have you marked all statements in the article that risks being falsified with <nowiki>{{verify}}</nowiki>? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:41, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Hey, I am getting a dwarf who wants "raw...crystal". Help? -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]
:Probably wants raw crystal glass. I had a dwarf ask for "raw...green", they wanted raw green glass. Looks like Toady might have moved the glass demands out of the "rough...color" category. [[User:Iddq?|Iddq?]]

About the engravers taking over craftdwarf's shops and becoming legendary engravers afterwards is quite true. I recently got a bunch of immigrants, and the engraver that came with them fell into a strange mood before even crossing the bridge on my river. He took over a craftdwarf's workshop and made a basalt scepter, and now he's legendary level in engraving. So yeah, perfect laboratory conditions, he was 100% engraver when he went into his mood and came out a legendary engraver. --[[User:Zhang5|Zhang5]] 17:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)

It seems that no craft skill is required. I just had a peasant go into a strange mood. His skills were: competent marksdwarf; novice wrestler; novice armor wearer. He grabbed a craftsdwarf's workshop and 10 items (3xFelsite, Schorls, Tigereyes, Red Beryls, Giant cave swallow leather, Grizzly Bear Leather, Rough harlequin opals and Ash logs -- guess he has expensive taste?) and churned out an idol in relatively short order. This is my 9th successful mood in this fortress, and I've seen requests for between 3 and 10 items, personally. Since they seem to be increasing in complexity, I've either hit the item cap, or I'm about to break ten :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:34, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:This is consistent with older versions. Moody peasants would become crafters, and 10 items was the cap. The minimum was 1 item -- generally when constructing a "perfect gem".--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:55, 19 November 2007 (EST)

I had a miner go into a strange mood, take over a mason's workshop, and make a something that got him up to legendary miner status. In my current fort, I have had 6 artifacts made, 2 of which were actual moods and 5 of which were possessions (I can add, one of them failed and the dwarf became a babbling wreck). My dwarves love to use only one item: an oak door (1 item), an olivine coffin (2 items), a turtle shell mask (1 item and is my cheapest artifiact at 3600), a diorite amulet (3 items), and a perfect jelly opal (1 item). --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)

Where to add the info that in my game (.33c) a miner took over a mason's workshop, became legendary miner and then held the artifact in his right hand instead of a pick, which became 'hauled', then droped the pick and then took the pick with his left hand? He can mine after all these. While holding a 667 weight units cabinet in his right hand. --[[User:Another|Another]] 10:07, 1 December 2007 (EST)

I had dwarf Miller, profecienty Grower who had Fey Mood, and he became a Legendary Mason ....
Is it normal ? [[user:Feydreva|Feydreva]]

One of my dwarves has become possessed and is demanding cloth, bones and stone, which I have plenty of. But he refuses to go fetch them. Is there something I'm doing wrong?—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] ([[User talk:Patarak|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Patarak|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
: They want either silk or fiber cloth. Make sure you have both! [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 03:40, 21 January 2008 (EST)

Aargh! One of my dwarves went secretive and is demanding a huge list of stuff. He seems to be demanding two types of stone because the "sketches quarry" message stays on twice as long as the others. I have (and he has gathered) flint: is there any way to tell what kind of stone he wants? --[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 011:55, 7 March 2008 (EST)
==Glassmaker==
I had a Glassmaker that sat around when I had a lot of Magma Glass Furnaces, but then decided to get going when I made a regular Glass Furnace. Seems like they will only use a specific kind. Not sure yet if it's random. Might be they won't take the Magma Glass Furnace in version 38a. Can anyone verify? --[[User:Afbee|Afbee]] 05:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

: My Glassmaker successfully used Magma Glass Furnace in a fey mood. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 07:54, 24 February 2008 (EST)
:: I just had the same problem. I had a glass maker who wouldn't take over a magma glass furnace. Since I'm creating a glass fortress and had a mess of glass orders piled up, I thought that might have confused the AI and I built 2 more magma glass furnaces. No dice, he didn't want them. After reading this page I decided to create a normal glass furnace. He snapped it up as soon as it was built. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 04:07, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::I had the exact same experience as [[Alkyon]], namely I had lots of magma glass furnaces but they wanted a normal one. Anybody else confirm what [[Digger]] has experienced?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
:::This has been observed countless times with magma forges vs standard forges - no reason to expect it should be any diff w/ glass furnaces.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

==Maximum number of artifacts==
Well, I just got my umpteenth mood, and it resulted in the 16th successfully created artifact.(33b) So that 15 cap thing is clearly wrong. As it happens, this single artifact is worth 754,800, and is an adamantine spear decorated with, among other things, adamantine. For the record, in case this data is important to someone tabulating number of ingredients, my moods in order created the following objects using the corresponding number of ingredients: (Flute, 4; Mechanism, 4; Spear, 3; Millstone, 6; Ring, 8; Chest, 7; Cape, 7; Ring, 9; Statue, 8; Idol, 10; earring, 8; Buckler, 8; Table, 3; Mechanism, 10; Bracelet, 5; and Spear, 8). [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:54, 27 November 2007 (EST)

Do fell/macabre moods still exist? I haven't seen any for quite a few versions. It'd be nice to have that verified.—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] ([[User talk:Rabek|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rabek|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

== clarification on "trade" skills ==

Are trade skills all the skills that produce items with some level of quality? Mainly I want to know if dyer is a trade skill. And how does that work with miner? I didn't think miner was a trade skill. Maybe someone who knows more than me could clarify in the wiki.
I just got my first artifact. It's worth 2400. The dwarf took one log and made a scepter. -[[User:Radtse|Radtse]]

:I don't know exactly, we should make a list of the skills we know are not trade skills. I'll start: my brewer/grower once got a strange mood and made a wood item and gained woodcrafting skill. Let's try to only add to the list when we have experienced a moody dwarf with that skill only.--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 19:36, 27 December 2007 (EST)

::I'm adding Weaver and Furnace Operator to this list, since they're on the wiki. I haven't seen them myself, but I'm assuming someone else has. Knowing that Furnace Operator is a "fey-able" skill will be quite helpful.-[[User:Radtse|Radtse]] 18:28, 29 December 2007 (EST)

:::Where's cooking fit in? --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 20:09, 6 January 2008 (EST)

List of non-trade skills:

* [[Brewer]]
* [[Grower]]
* [[Miller]]
* [[Wood Cutter]]

Skills that may be used and gained by dwarves with no trade skills:

* [[Wood crafter]]
* [[Stone crafter]]

Skills that use a different skill(See list above), but give correct skill:

* [[Miner]]
* [[Engraver]]
* [[Furnace Operator]]
* [[Weaver]]

:::For the record, i can confirm both Furnace Operator and Weaver, since no one else has commented to verify them thus far. (The weaver actually surprised me when it happened). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

:::I can confirm that a Miner will claim a Mason's shop, and produce a stone item, even with no Mason skill at all. It works just like the wiki says. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 23:47, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

:::And I can confirm that Wood Cutter does not contribute -- I had a Novice Glassmaker/No Prefix Wood Cutter take a glass furnace. [[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 13:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== mood condition ==
The 20 dwarves / no crazy stuff has been found while looking at the binary of v0.27.169.33d, might be different now, but i don't think so. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 15:08, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Regarding the calulations for required maximum existing artifacts (items/200 and dugout/(48*48)) wouldn't it make more sense to either use the squared symbol, or the actual result of that square (which was the original number actually discovered/revealed I believe)? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:17, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:<sup>2</sup> --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 21:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

:20 dorf must be still there. I've made low-population fort and I had no mood for ~8 years (from start). I'm sure that I've digged at least 2700 tiles and created at least 300 items. I will test if raising population to 20 will cause moods. I think that 20 dwarf limit should be mentioned even if it's not confirmed. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 18:30, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

== Random Workshop Seizure ==

I just had a gem cutter seize a carpenter's workshop and make a perfect gem; upon completion I had a worthless Legendary dwarf and a new jeweler's workshop, so I guess that's still in from the previous version. I've removed the verify in the article. [[User:Tacroy|Tacroy]] 16:51, 9 January 2008 (EST)

:nonsense. Should be a bigger chance of making ZOMG high-quality gem crafts now ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 07:35, 18 February 2008 (EST)

::More to the point, if you don't like the profession your dwarf has Legendary in...draft for the stats! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== forbidden items ==

Do moody dwarfs use forbidden items? Will they demand forbid items? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 02:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

:I don't know whether moody dwarves will use forbidden items (my guess would be they won't). But they don't choose the demands based on what is on the map, they can and do demand things you don't have. So it's safe to assume forbidding doesn't prevent dwarves from demanding the forbidden kind of item. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

::Forbidden items are not used. Similarly, if your mooder slipped in e.g. an iron bar when you wanted him to use a platinum bar, you can forbid AND dump the item to stop him from using it. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:35, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

== Impossible Requests? ==
Will dwarves try to use items that you just don't have access to? I had a dwarf asking for silk when I haven't imported any and I'm pretty sure there isn't a giant spider anywhere. Also asking for "rocks" when I have mined at least one of each type of rock that is visible (requiring rocks from unmined areas seem pretty harsh). Also a request for "metal bars" when I have smeltered at least one of each ore I have found and made at least one of each possible alloy. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:27, 26 February 2008 (EST)
:Yeah, impossible stuff is all my dwarves ever want. :-P Right now mine appears to want stone I don't have, and no traders have come by with any stone.... So my guys are frantically mining in various directions.... [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 13:59, 7 March 2008 (EST)

::As far as i can tell they never request anything it is truly impossible for you to get. Available by trade seems to imply possible for the game engine though. Too bad if its the start of winter (which is when all my moods which require things I don't have and can't produce happen, of course). But if there's no sand on your map at all you will not be asked for glass, since you can't trade for sand. (If there's 5 tiles of sand under that underground lake you haven't found yet... sucks to be you - my first fortress lost 3 dwarves to this). So yes, requiring things present on the map that you haven't found yet appears to be possible and routine. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:48, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

== Procastinator! ==

I just had a moody dwarf demand bones, wood, rocks, and cloth.

He got the rocks okay, and then did nothing for ages. Then, as soon as the fire imp corpse rotted away, he ran down and got the bones, then ran over to my wood stockpile and got a piece of wood...

Do they need to get their ingredients in order now?--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 06:28, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:i think so, not that it matters, he wont start unless he has ALL the ingridents.

== gems ==
My moody dwarf asked for 2 kinds of rough gems, but i had cut all rough ones at that point. So i "printed out" all layers and started checking for leftover gems in the walls. Guess what, he picked the first 2 kinds i mined. So either

* random/pure luck (don't think so)
* they only ask what they "see"
* they only ask what is somehow on the map
* or they might even adapt somewhat to availability, but i doubt that. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:59, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:I believe, but don't know for sure, that sometimes they want specific items and sometimes they just want anything in a category of items, such as any rough gems in this case. It used to work that way in the 2d version, didn't it? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:23, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
::Confirming behaviour that BahamutZERO sees. Dwarves will '''always''' grab the closest object that falls under the category unless he is requesting a specific metal, specific silk, or specific plant fiber cloth. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:25, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

== Just standing around? ==

I have a dwarf who was possessed, but won't leave the main hall. He's also a novice in everything, but to be safe I've already cleared the shops. It's winter of my first year, but somehow I've already had 2 waves of immigrants. Back to the point, I'm afraid he's going to wait out the mood and go berserk. Help?
--[[User:Ilmmad|Ilmmad]] 20:00, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:Well, make sure u ve got one workshop of every possible kind available - there are however quite a few u dont need to build, its covered in the article. Check for locked doors or otherwise blocked access (bridges, channels, statues..) Dont forget furnaces, glass and magma. Check with 'q' if all workshops are completely build. If it doesnt help consider building workshops not related to his skills, or more "exotic" ones, like Ashery or Alchemist. No one can guarantee that Toady didnt have some new fun ideas ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:59, 6 March 2008 (EST)
Same thing happened to one of my lenegdary dwarves. He then went berserk in my legendary dining room.. in front of my crossbow champions. Blood ensued. And now it has happened again, my hard trained master glassmaker just stands in the meeting zone flashing purple excl. sign, despite the fact that magma glass furnace is up and running. Doh. --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 15:47, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
:And an update... this is pretty stupid. I've decided to build a regular glass furnace, just to see what happens, and guess what, my glassmaker happily proceeded to claim it and made me a ''Lushutilun Othornoshtath, Guilthaled the Erased Devourer'', a green glass statue. Neat-o. --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 16:02, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
::I can confirm this bug. I just had this happen to me too. I had three fully functional glass magma furnaces and he just stood in the middle of my meeting area. I went and built a regular glass furnace and he ran off and claimed it. Weird bug. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 04:10, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
:::Its not a bug, its a feature. --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 13:54, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

== stark raving suicide ==

My mechanic wanted silk cloth, which I didn't have, and eventually gone insane ("stark raving mad" to be precise).
Seconds after that I had message that he died in heat (I had artificial magma pool nearby).
He probably jumped into the pool like in melancholy. Main article states that only melancholic dwarves kill themselves in such way.
Could anyone confirm that mad ones do that too, and this wasn't just an accident/bug? [[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 16:59, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

:Perhaps it ''was'' an accident -- I seem to recall that "stark raving mad" ones wander around at random. Perhaps it wandered into the lava. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 18:30, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

::It was an accident, the stark raving mad ones wander around aimlessly, regardless of Z- levels. --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 12:53, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Glassmaker with no glass ==

I had an immigrant glassworker get a mood, seize a glass workshop, and created an artifact made entirely of gemstones. No glass involved or asked for. (No sand on the map, anyway.) He turned into a Legendary Glassworker, despite having never made a glass anything.

== Rewrite ==

I think I got most of the old information and then some into the new article. Please make any necessary modifications. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 01:22, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

== Silk Cloth ==

I had a dwarf demand silk cloth, but he refused to use my giant cave spider silk cloth. I didn't have any regular cave spider silk cloth. To verify that the silk was the problem, I used Companion to change the silk demand to any stone, and he immediately collected the rest of the materials and constructed the artifact.
Can anyone else confirm that giant cave spider silk cloth does '''not''' count as silk cloth? --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:55, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:No, I'm pretty sure I can't. I've seen a dwarf grab GCS silk. Could it be that you had thread and not cloth? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:59, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::Nope, giant cave spider cloth [3] sorted under cloth on the stock screen. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 16:52, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
Probably they may specifically require GCS silk or specifically require CS silk. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 14:10, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
I figured it out - the silk was outside and I had accidentally left "Dwarves Stay Inside" on after the latest attack. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:52, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

== Engineer taken by secretive mood, and creates... ==

Evidently engineers who are taken by a secretive mood ("withdraws from society", in case it's later determined that the descriptor has an effect) will have no problems taking over the mechanic's workshop. And there's only one thing mechanic-shops build - that's right, you heard right, ladies and gentlemen, I present ''Kodor ós: A claystone mechanism''. It's even available for use from the appropriate {{k|b}})uild screens. He decided to make this splendid 86,400o creation while on an eight-mechanism binge in that very same mechanic's workshop. Maybe dwarves choose the workshop they've been in the most often? --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

:Ah, actually I can confirm I've had a Mechanic create an artifact mechanism as well. Stick some obsidian swords in that baby and you'll be good to go! That should probably go in the main article for skills vs workshops... I would expect siege engineers also have strange moods, but I imagine pump op and siege op fall under the general craftsman catch-all --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 15:45, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::I'd like to smack BismuthBismuthBismuth with the facts stated in the article.
A dwarf will claim a workshop according to their highest applicable skill
::In this case it was Engineering and therefore your mechanic went to a Mechanic's Workshop. It's the same with the possessed glassmakers. They hit a glassmaker's shop. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:49, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:::I'd like to hit GreyMario-Maria, preferably in the upper-body region, with the fact that at the time of my post, the table in the article did not mention mechanics whatsoever. --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 22:26, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::::Pardon me, but I was not aware that ''mechanics'' worked at a ''mechanic's workshop'', where objects are created that have ''quality mofidiers'' and can thus become ''artifacts''. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:28, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:::::Pardon me as well, but it seems that the table in [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&oldid=25231 this particular revision] did not encapsulate this information. '''GreyMario is throwing a tantrum!''' --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:22, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
::::::Mechanics. Work at a mechanic's workshop. Produce items which have visible quality modifiers. Items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to be artifacts. THEREFORE, mechanics claim mechanic's workshops when they go fey. Seriously, logic sometimes, please? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:30, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
:::::::That would follow if we knew for certain that the proposition "items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to artifacts" is necessarily true. We don't. For instance, siege engine components are not verified as artifact eligible. Since that isn't a given, it's perfectly reasonable for people to not jump to the conclusion that a job type will create artifacts relevant to it until they see it happen. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 16:26, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

i love the absurd randomness factor with artifacts - you end up with really weird stuff. like grates, and socks. a question pertinent to legendary mechanisms - i got a stupidly valuable one of these as the first legendary item in a new fort and i used it to create a gear assembly in a public dining area in the hopes that it would give dwarves happy thoughts, but after a few years gametime of checking randomly on them nothing particular showed up. any particular use along these lines for legendary mechanisms for something other then simple fortress value? --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 11:51, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
: weapon traps! --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 12:03, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
:: FWIW, that might be a more general answer for artifact items... I had a Weaponsmith dwarf go into a strange mood and create a lead warhammer (Yes, there was plenty of steel and iron around, but this dwarf likes lead, I guess). It can't be equipped as a weapon (lead isn't a valid material type normally for constructing weapons) but I can put it into a weapons trap. Which... is basically the only thing I can do with this 65000* artifact... -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:37, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
::: Actually, artifact equipment can be used, it just requires a "hero" level dwarf or higher. However, for the nonstandard material weapons and armor you may do well to forbid them so that they're not used. The actual effectiveness of odd material artifacts is supposedly lower than that of decent iron or steel equipment, and artifact equipment cannot be unequipped once a dwarf decides to use it. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 15:36, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
:Build your artifact mechanism into a really, really, really wonderful well. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 11:37, 13 December 2008 (EST)

== Tanner fixed ==

I just had a Tanner claim a leather works, not a tannery. I updated the table. For the record, the dwarf has no skill level in leather working.

:I wonder if Tanners even claim Tanner's shops? Tanner's shops just make leather, and leather doesn't have quality modifiers, so you shouldn't be able to produce an artifact from one, aye? That information came from an older version of the page, I wonder if it was inaccurate. Weavers supposed claim Clothier's shops and not Looms, so it would make sense if Tanners were the same way. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 18:08, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

== Cooks ==

I can confirm that cooks do not produce artifacts: my Peasant with Dabbling Cook/Brewer/(various social) and nothing else just took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop. I'm removing the verify tag for cooks in the article. --[[User:Comonad|Comonad]] 16:16, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

mmmm. . . . artifact roast. [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 19:12, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

== Soapers etc. ==

It stands to reason that soapers, lye makers, and wood burners wouldn't make artifacts. Neither soap, lye, charcoal, nor ash have quality modifiers, and that's all those skills can produce. I'm pretty sure you can't have artifact soap, lye, charcoal, or ash. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 20:26, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

: My woodburner just got possessed. He wants a shell and wood. I have the shell but I'm not sure what type of wood he wants. --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 20:18, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

: I just had a Soap Maker (his only skill, a fresh immigrant) get possessed. He took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop and with an obsidian stone, 3x turtle shells and a giant cave spider silk cloth and made a turtle shell toy boat. --[[User:Cal|Cal]] 01:32, 20 April 2009 (CDT)

== Not all demands need to be met ==

I just had a dwarf taken by a secretive mood and collect a huge variety of things: 4 stone, 1 block, 1 gem, 2 rough gems, bones, a shell, 2 leather. He was further sketching for more bones, 2 leather, another stone, a log, another shell, and raw green glass. The only things I didn't have on hand were the shell and the green glass -- dwarves seem to go through their list in order, and get stuck on certain items.

I just hoped someone would eat a turtle (50/1678 chance!) and queued a raw green glass. When the glass was made, he got started, totally ignoring his previous requests for wood, another shell, and the other things. Anyone else have this experience? [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 13:28, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

:I think they keep sketching images even after they get the items. Your dwarf already had all of the shells, leather, bones, stones, blocks, and gems he needed. [[User:Curudan|Curudan]] 15:26, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

::This is correct. I've had dwarves run out, grab two items, and then sit at the Workshop shouting a need for three items. When the item he was waiting on became available, he ran out, grabbed it, went back in, and started working. So it's pretty evident that they list ALL of the items they want, regardless of how many of them they've already collected. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 22:28, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

== Possession ==

I've had 14 moods in my current Fortress, 11 of them have been possessions. Am I really unlucky, or is the type of mood weighted? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
: As far as I can tell by looking at the game logic, each mood types are as likely to be rolled (except fell of course, which is selected if happiness<rand(128) or something like that). --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:56, 3 September 2008 (EDT)
:: I had a feeling I was just getting really unlucky, thanks. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:34, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

== Furnace Operator ==

Apparently furnace operator is no longer a mood skill as of df 28 181 40d. I just had a expert furnace operator take over a Craftdwarf's Workshop and become a legendary stonecrafter. [[User:Otherdwarf|Otherdwarf]] 10:26, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
:I had one take over a mason's workshop, I would guess that Furnace Operator is treating like Engraver or Miner. I'm kind of disappointed, I was hoping he'd churn out an artifact coke or something.[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 13:03, 14 November 2008 (EST)

::Back when furnace operator was moodable, they'd turn out metal crafts. But taking over a mason's workshop is surprising. Occasionally they'll take over a random workshop and convert it into the type they want -- what artifact did the dwarf produce? And, just to rule out some obvious things, did the dwarf have dabbling skill in mining, masonry, or engraving?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:51, 14 November 2008 (EST)
:::He went crazy looking for some kind of rough gem, so we'll never know. It was ''right'' after the dwarf trading caravan left, too, so I really had no chance whatsoever. I don't know for sure what skills he had, I don't think he had much other than Furnace Operator, Architect, and the social skills though. I ''might'' have enabled mining, but there was plenty of work for him at the smelter so I don't know for sure.--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 15:56, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Chunk Butchery? ==

Well, even though the selection of items for artifacts is totally random, its a bit wierd if a macabre dwarf goes to a butcher's workshop and starts bringing in tons of dwarf CHUNKS! My dwarf just started doing that, should I expect rotting meat (yes, the chunks are already rotten)? - 09:57, 30 October 2008 Stinhad Limarezum
: ^_^ "This is a delicious meat pie. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. On the item is an image of a dwarf and dwarves in rotting dwarf chunks. The dwarf is baking the other dwarves into meat pies. The artwork relates to the rise of the dwarf butcher Sweeney Todd as the cook of The Fleet Street in 78" -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:11, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:Oh, ''do'' post the description of the artifact when the dwarf completes it. ("Menaces with spikes of dwarf chunk?" I'd be intimidated for sure.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:18, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== What Workshop? ==

Is there any way to discover what workshop a dwarf in a secretive mood requires? I had nearly everything. I built a siege workshop and a bowery before I ran out of ideas and he went beserk. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 10:55, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:You have to look at what skills he has first and rule out the obvious. If he has no mood-able skills then it's going to be a craftsdwarf's workshop. If you have hit magma and he wants a forge or glass furnace, he will insist on the magma version of that workshop. Finally, maybe one of your existing workshops was inaccessible or you accidentally [[forbid]] it at some point. If none of that works, I'm out of ideas too.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:01, 3 November 2008 (EST)
::I have a functioning magma glass furnace and I had to build a normal glass furnace when my glass maker became secretive. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:23, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Same here, in fact I had 2 moody glass making dwarves refuse to use anything but a normal glass furnace when there were 5 fully functional magma glass furnaces in the same fort. (sorry, almost forgot to sign) --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:27, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Ditto. A glassmaker got possessed and refused to use my magma glass furnace. I had to build a regular one. --[[User:Schwern|Schwern]] 19:33, 27 December 2008 (EST)

:::Ah. In older versions, they'd insist on a magma workshop, when possible. Do they now insist on using a regular workshop, or has anyone seen a moody dwarf use a magma workshop in recent versions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::::I believe my metalsmith is waiting for my magma forge to come on line, I have a standard forge built, but that isn't doing anything for him. Does anyone know what effect fluctuating power will have on the strange mood? Edit: If a claimed workshop looses power for even a millisecond, the mood fails. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 12:02, 18 November 2008 (EST)
::::I can confirm that an Armorsmith will use a magma furnace, and if the furnace loses magma after it is claimed (Even if the dwarf is out collecting materials), the mood will fail. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 07:22, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

== Possessed Child ==

I have a child that has become possessed and taken over one of my craft workshops (of course). He is muttering the following: rough color, leather skin, bone yes, stone rock, cloth thread, blocks bricks, and a shell. He has already acquired the following: turtle bones, donkey bones [4], microcline blocks, turtle shell, rough pink garnets, dog leather, carp leather, and hematite. I have plenty of all the things that he's already gathered, so I'm assuming that he doesn't need anymore of those items. That leaves the thread. I have turned off my auto-loom a while ago so that I would keep the thread around for artifacts. I currently have plenty of plant thread (4 pig tail and 14 rope reed) and enough spider silk (5). What I don't have is giant spider silk. I have confirmed that the child has access to all these items, including the thread which I have piles next to his workshop. Still he doesn't start construction.

Can any help? Is there a difference for artifact creation between regular cave spider silk and giant cave spider silk? ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]

:Do you have both silk and plant cloth available? (Not just thread.) And do you see any specific cloth preferences in his thoughts and preferences screen?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:32, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::Argh. I bet that's it. No silk cloth, just thread. I have had guys go crazy for lack of thread before, so I never make silk cloth, just kept the thread. Oh well, the child is now melancholy. I can re-load and see what would happen if I make the thread into cloth. Maybe I'll test that out. ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]

::: Wouldn't you be able to solve this problem by only weaving dyed thread? Then you'll always have some thread waiting to be dyed. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 03:04, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::::You could also leave high quality, expensive materials lying around Forbidden, and only Claim them when someone's trying to make an artifact. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 15:07, 11 November 2008 (EST)

== Getting More Strange Moods ==

According to the article, the number of artifacts is limited by "The number of items created divided by 200." This indicates that making bolts (5 for each bone or 25 for each log) or brewing (5 units of drink for each unit of plant brewed) are efficient ways to encourage strange moods. Does that sound accurate?

It also states that the number of revealed subterranean tiles is a limit. Does that mean an area like a chasm, where many tiles are revealed to start with, will produce more strange moods?

Also, does anyone know whether the division rounds up or down? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 22:24, 16 November 2008 (EST)

:I'd be willing to bet all stacks count as only one "item" for this kind of calculation. 200 sounds like a paltry number, however. If rocks are counted as items, most fortresses have thousands of them in just a few years. The other number is what is most significant (I wonder where the heck it comes from?) I've had four miners digging non-stop for about 10 years now, and my stocks menu says I have 70,000 stones. Allowing for underground soil tiles (which don't produce stone) and stone/ore consumed by industry, each miner can probably clear about 2,000 tiles a year: one artifact. I have 21 artifacts in my fortress now (and two failed moods early on), so if that rate is indicative, I'd say you want to employ three or more miners non-stop to maximize your chances.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:09, 17 November 2008 (EST)

::The guy who wrote [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stone_management#Block_Stockpile this] doesn't seem to think that stones count as created items. Also, "revealed tiles" is ambiguous. For example, [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Exploratory_mining#Mine_shafts this] method is very good at showing you what's inside of a tile without actually mining it out. Do you suppose that seeing whats inside is enough?

::Where do you think these numbers came from anyway? I'm gonna take a look through the edit history and try to track them down. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:15, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::They came during [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&diff=25038&oldid=24936 this edit]. They're so specific I've got to think the author did some poking around with a disassembler. Again, though, 200 is such a paltry number. If underground "open space" counts, then discovering a chasm, bottomless pit, or magma pipe should many thousands thousands of revealed tiles. If underground floor tiles are needed, you'll have to mine most of them out yourself.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:34, 17 November 2008 (EST)

::::I had a chat with [[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] over at his talk page, since he edited the page around the time the changes were made. He seemed fairly certain that all you had to do to "reveal" a tile was to have a passable square next to it, so I edited the article to reflect that. He did not, however, know anything about how bolts or stones would affect things. Right now my hopes are on [[User:Marble_Dice|Marble Dice]], whom I believe made the actual addition. I'm not sure if he's a very active user though.

::::By the way, the reason I'm doing all this is that I'm considering optimizing a fortress for strange moods: have '''lots''' of dwarves with only "dabbling" in a single strange mood skill to gain maximum benefit from the moods. Any ideas for fortress strategies that will go well with this? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 02:44, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::::I saw the conversation -- I keep my eye on [[Special:Recentchanges]]. What he says about "reveal" is correct, as far as I know. I still wonder about "open space" tiles. If they count as revealed, all you really need to do is find a chasm/pit/magma pipe and you'll be in moods for years to come.

:::::I've done the dabbling strategy in the past. It's best to emphasize just a few skills you really really want that are otherwise hard to train due to limited materials -- armorsmith, weaponsmith, bone carver, leatherworker, carpenter, etc. It works fine with any fortress strategy.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:30, 17 November 2008 (EST)

== Two missing labors ==

Strand Extractor and Blacksmith don't currently appear in either the Causes Moods category or the Doesn't Cause Moods category. I put Strand Extractor in Doesn't Cause Moods and the Blacksmith in Causes Moods; feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 19:59, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:I can confirm that blacksmith is moodable, I've got a nice steel chest to show for it. It stands to reason that strand extractor isn't moodable, but we don't know for sure -- I've slapped a verify on it.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:01, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:Confirmed that strand extractor doesnt have an associated strange mood. My strand extractor/fish cleaner/grower entered a strange mood and became a legendary bone carver. --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 06:15, 9 February 2009 (EST)

== Order of stuff ==

I'm wondering if dwarves always claim items in a certain order. For example, when a dwarf wants three pieces of wood he always wants them back-to-back, never wood gem wood bone wood. So are types ALWAYS in a certain order? My current moody dwarf wanted two bars of metal, then spider silk cloth, then ash logs, then bones, then a rough gem, then a shell. Knowing the order might help you guess what the dwarf wants next if he doesn't need to wait for anything (and thus tell you what he wants). This might be useful for micromanaging forbidding stuff to make sure your dwarf gets the highest value things available. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:19, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:<s>This is actually well-defined in the article, if you'd bothered to look close enough. Dwarves will gather items in the order they scream their demands in.</s> It's unknown. I think there's no real order, just similar things end up grouped together. :V --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:32, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::fail. Uh, I mean, as soon as anyone else sees a strange mood, it can either be disproven, or we can start putting some data together immediately and be done pretty quick. I saw: Metal Bars, Silk Cloth, Wood, Bones, Rough Gem, Shell. If anyone sees bones before wood or something, that means there's no guaranteed order. But no harm done. :) --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:36, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:::It's simpler than that. Items have a certain number of slots for improvements, and for artifacts the first improvement slot is always filled by the base material of the item. Then the rest are filled in order, with whatever is a valid candidate for that slot (which is probably 'anything that's anything' in every case, though I'm not absolutely sure.) So, there isn't any explicit sorting because it has to be in order.

:::If you fill an item's slots with ordinary decoration, which is easiest to do by encrusting a wide variety of gems on a piece of furniture or the like, you'll see what I mean. Maybe. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 23:40, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::::Ah! So you're saying that instead of generating a list of ingredients, it first plans out the artifact itself, saying "This one is a chest, it has hanging rings and an image, first let's get a material for the chest, then a material for the hanging rings, then a material for the image"? That makes a ton of sense, and answers my question. Thanks! --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:47, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Well, I know it doesn't do that, because if you close the game and reopen it, you can get different items... With my elf game, I had one artifact that came out as either a thong, a left mitten, or a rope on five tries. But it's roughly the same idea, even with the details randomized upon creation. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 00:05, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Fell Mood Demands ==

It looks like when a brooding dwarf sits in the tanner's shop and says he needs "Things..." what he's looking for is vermin remains. Other demands are like in Fey moods. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 22:24, 3 December 2008 (EST)

== Confusing macabre mood ==

My mayor just entered one, while 'quite content', claimed a smelter, waited for a bit, until the parts appeared (the vermin must have died). He then created a roach rock chitin bracelet, and gained the carpenter skill. Am I missing something here? Smelter, rock and carpenter don't seem to mix well... Note: The only skills were proficient cook and fish cleaner, with some dabbling and noice social.--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 13:03, 6 December 2008 (EST)

:Carpenter? Or wood crafter? Claiming a smelter isn't out of the question: they sometimes grab a random workshop and turn it into the one they want (is it still a smelter?). And what is roach rock? Give the actual description of the artifact.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:14, 6 December 2008 (EST)

::Carpenter. It's still a smelter, yes. "This is a large roach chitin bracelet. All craftsdwaftship is of the highest quality. It is encircled with bands of large roach chitin and dwarf bone. This object menaces with spikes of rat leather."--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 15:32, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:::Hmm. Post that one on the forums, find out if it's an actual bug. Does sound pretty nonstandard.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:50, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:::: :-D Pretty sure that a roach is an actual bug. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:00, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:::::D'oh.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:56, 8 December 2008 (EST)

::::::I did have two very close together, but I am certain that neither had any carpenter skill, and the smelter was claimed.

: I've just had a similar occurance. Immediately after a goblin ambush (that killed 5 of my soldiers and caused major unhappiness in many dwarves), one dwarf that had lost a friend but was just "content" clained a tanner's workshop, grabbed a rhesus macque chunk, and made a rather boring rhesus macaque leather amulet (no embelishments apart from rhesus macaque leather bands). It did have quite an impressive name though - Gethustongos Nelas Luror, "Harshtainted the Flicker of Cruelties". The dwarf herself became a Legendary Weaponsmith, despite having no weaponsmithing skill! (Her highest skill was unlabled armoring). [[User:Iapetus|Iapetus]] 19:47, 10 January 2009 (EST)
::I imagine the requirement for a macabre/fell mood is having a thought psychology of less than 0 (being 'unhappy'). "Quite Content" shows up until -25, and then 'fine' is -26 to -50, so either of these diagnoses would theoretically qualify for a fell/macabre mood. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:05, 14 January 2009 (EST)

:I think macabre moods have a bug or something. I had a fisherdwarf go macabre, and he was definitely very unhappy since my fortress had fallen into a terrible state of unhappiness (ask me some other time). He went to a butcher's workshop and made a Large Roach Chitin Ring. I can't remember what skill he got but it was definitely not leatherworking or butchery.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 05:31, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== Rough Gems ==

EVERY Fey Mood that has happened for the last 3 years has required Rough Gems! Argh! Mining out an entire Z-level has found ONE GEM, which I was idiotic enough to cut the instant I found it. I do not have Rough Gems. You cannot buy Rough Gems. My fortress will die slowly and painfully without Rough Gems. Cut green glass is good enough when a fey dwarf demands cut gems, why isn't raw green glass good enough when they want rough gems? Can it be made good enough with a mod? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 11:19, 13 December 2008 (EST)

:Dig down to an igneous intrusive level - they have more gems. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:19, 13 December 2008 (EST)

::To mod out gem-demanding fey dwarves, you could remove all gems and then generate a new world. Alternatively, if you don't mind the lack of moods, turn them off in init.txt. Personally, I highly dislike moods, since they just make it that much easier to have abundant so-called "legendary" dwarves, although the random killer effect is quite nice. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:15, 13 December 2008 (EST)

:Regarding "why isn't raw green glass good enough when they want rough gems" -- it is good enough. I've had fey dwarves grab raw green glass a half-dozen times. I think it's more likely that all the raw green glass in your fortress was TASKED, and therefore unavailable to the fey dwarf. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:16, 12 January 2009 (EST)

==Trapper?==
Has anyone seen a dwarf get trapper experience from a mood? I've made a couple of artifact animal traps at this point, and all of them were by dwarves without the trapper skill who received xp in skills related to the material. (ie, my turtle-shell animal trap was made by someone who became a legendary bonecarver therefrom). I know I made a similar comment on the Trapper talk page. From the other end, I'm sure I've had immigrant trappers get moods before and have never seen a legendary trapper, although I don't recall specifically enough to be certain they had moods. But I've seen zero evidence that Trapper is actually a moodable skill. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:00, 15 December 2008 (EST)

==Craftdwarf's Workshop==
I just had a lye maker take over a metalsmith's forge and turn out a bracelet; now he's a legendary metalcrafter. I think that "Dwarves with only the following skills will construct their artifact at a craftsdwarf's workshop..." might be too constrictive, and that such dwarves could seize any craftdwarf-related workshop (including forges and carpenter's shops), not just a craftdwarf's workshop. Anyone else observed this behavior? --[[User:Wingus|Wingus]] 09:55, 22 December 2008 (EST)

:You're certain that the dwarf in question had no experience in any other tasks? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 11:19, 22 December 2008 (EST)

:Yes, the lyemaker had no other (non-social) skills. He was a recent immigrant I was using as a hauler. --[[User:Wingus|Wingus]] 11:35, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::There have been quite a few anomalous moods that we haven't documented properly yet.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 22 December 2008 (EST)

Figure this falls here. Had a Potash Maker refuse every shop I built, I had thought I had a craft shop. Turns out it was forbidden, I reclaimed it and he claimed it for his mood. I think this is verified.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 15:18, 3 January 2009 (EST)

== Time limit of a mood. ==

Do we have a fix on the exact time the player has to satisfy a mood before the dwarf goes insane? Any clue on whether it's fixed or variable?
--[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 12:04, 27 December 2008 (EST)
:I don't have a specific time limit, nor have I checked for variability, but 60 days/2 months is very close to the limit in my experience. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:18, 12 January 2009 (EST)

== Injured with Mood? ==

I recently had a recruit break his arm in sparring, you know... dwarf stuff, anyways he went into a strange mood and now hes magically up out of bed and walking around to the workshop. Will this work too if the dwarf has a broken leg? EDIT: The dwarf just fell on the ground unconcsious... This could be a big problem

:I just had a dwarf who'd been resting for months with a broken left upper leg and broken lower body rise up and crawl to the mason's workshop. The power of Armok compels her! [[User:Heartofgoldfish|Heartofgoldfish]] 02:44, 13 February 2009 (EST)
::Her injuries weren't ones that would make her pass out, and so, she's completed Nishuthir, a limestone weapon rack! [[User:Heartofgoldfish|Heartofgoldfish]] 03:53, 13 February 2009 (EST)

==Siege Operator==
Is listed in the table as using a mechanics workshop. In the text to the left of the table says the dwarf will use a craftsdwarf's workshop. Which is correct?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 13:16, 2 March 2009 (EST)

:Siege operation produces nothing, so I'm fairly certain they use a craftdwarfs shop. But then, I've never had a Siege Operator (as highest skill) have a mood, so i can't absolutely verify that. I'd say even Siege Engineers need verification on what they do with moods - I've never seen one. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 20:54, 2 March 2009 (EST)
::I agree with your comments. Since I am using siege operators as a cross-training tool, several of my dwarfs are at legendary status. Each of them are dabbling weapon/armor smiths, so I'll update it when they get a mood. My last mood was a soldier with lots of soldier skills, but dabbling in metalwork, armor, and weaponsmith. I got a legendary weaponsmith out of it - Woot! Woot!
::As for the Siege engineer, I don't think they would produce a catapult or ballista part artifact. It just doesn't make sense. But, I agree, we definitely need to verify that one. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 13:50, 3 March 2009 (EST)
::I had a dwarf (legendary siege op., novice clothes, stone crafter, dabbling other things) get a mood. He took a craftsdwarf's workshop. [[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]], do you want to fix the front page?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:58, 4 March 2009 (EST)
:::Reasonably certain I already made the correct change on presumption, but i'll take a look. (done) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 08:20, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::I edited that in about a month ago when I had an SO get a special mood and, yes, he claimed a mechanic's workshop. Probably worth verifying that independently but that's certainly what happened to me. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:13, 5 March 2009 (EST)
:::::The question would be 'was his highest mood skill mechanics', because that would cause him to take a mechanics workshop despite being a Siege Operator. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:36, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::::I'm pretty sure I checked and that it was siege operation; although I wouldn't swear that I remember it clearly, I'd like to think that I would have checked before wikifying it. Certainly worth keeping the verify tag for now, though. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:51, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::::I had a SO with no other skills take a craftdwarf's shop. He was a peasant before I made him train in SO. I can't yet verify siege engineer (The skill that produces catapult parts). It would make sense. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 08:57, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::::In that case, my apologies. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:02, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

==Butcher==
Had a Butcher/Dabbling Tanner become a Legendary Tanner after a mood. Verified. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 08:23, 5 March 2009 (EST)

==Lye Maker==
Immigrant Lye Maker/Dabbling Leather Worker became a Legendary Leather Worker after a mood. Verified. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:31, 5 March 2009 (EST)

==Weirdness==
I just had a dwarf with legendary siege operator/legendary pump operator/legendary record keeper/ competent mason /previous mayor, so various levels of social and military skills that took a craftsdwarf's shop. I would have thought he'd take the mason's shop according to the rules here. Maybe the record keeper ALWAYS takes the craftdwarf's shop? Also, it was a possessed mood, so maybe that makes a difference?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 11:31, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

Weird. I've had Legendary record keepers take appropriate workshops for their mood skills. Ditto pump operator. All my siege operators end up being dwarves who ended up with useless mood skills (generally because they had moods as children), but that would be really weird if SO was considered a moodable skill that took the *craftdwarf* workshop. Too bad it was possession, we can't see where he got xp. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:04, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

:There's evidence that if the highest skill doesn't have a workshop, they'll switch to the next highest skill, and if that doesn't have a workshop, the next after that. Possibly, the game only checks this a certain number of times, say, twice, and then defaults to craftsman's workshop. This would eliminate instances where maybe a peasant has constructed a wall or two in his time, but he's a much better comedian, liar, and pacifier. Obviously, he's not a mason of any sort, so he defaults to craftsdwarf. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 06:24, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I've had a couple possessed dwarves take craftdwarf's shops even though they had an applicable skill. I think that maybe the rules are a little difference for possesion; it would make sense since if you're possessed it shouldn't be your skills that matter. I don't know if this is just a fluke though, so it would be good to have confirmation. --[[User:Lemursdon'texist|Lemursdon'texist]] 16:53, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

:Mikaka, I don't agree. In my experience, if the highest '''moodable''' skill workshop doesn't exist, the dwarf just wonders around (and will eventually go insane unless the building gets built). I take my non-mood dwarfs (dyers, farmers, furnace operators) and have them make ONE piece of armor. When they get a mood, they always go to the forge and become legendary armorsmiths. Possessions, like Lemurs mentioned above, are different from other moods. Skills don't matter and they don't get experience for it.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:11, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

==Kablebes==

Craftsdwarf's Workshop

This building has been claimed by Zas Dedukudil, Farmer.

Zas Dedukudil keeps muttering Kablebes...

That is all. No other mutterings, nothing. --[[User:Zphobic|Zphobic]] 21:23, 15 April 2009 (CST)

::He's muttering the name of the thing that he will eventually produce. Don't worry about it, he's got everything he needs and is working. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:05, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== military ==
"Further, dwarfs with a military profession other than "Recruit" can '''not''' enter moods"

Does this mean that they can't be moody ''while'' being soldier and, as that, say, marksdwarf, but they can be moody as civilians while having skill in marksdwarf ''or'' does it not matter if soldier or civilian as long as marksdwarf is not their highest skill? --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 19:28, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
:I would need to look at the disassembly again to be absolutely sure, but what I remember is that if a military skill is their highest (non-social) skill, they won't enter into moods.   —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 00:47, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
::Hol - it's all about [[profession]]s. 0x5 - that's what your analysis of this said when you posted it on the forums. Military professions simply don't take moods. I'll edit and emphasize/clarify that.
::EDIT - Gah. Now that I'm half-way into it, I know how moods work, but I'm starting to doubt how the game reads "professions" - does activating change a dwarf's profession in the eyes of Moods? If a legendary Brewer has 2 ranks of hammerdwarf and are activated, are they a "brewer" or a "macedwarf"? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:01, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Personality ==

I'm 90% certain personality traits like "feels strong urges" "has a fertile imagination" and one other trait greatly influence the development of moods.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Eerr|Eerr]]
:I believe that you feel this way. Care to expand on why, and exactly what influence you believe they have? (and what that "one other trait" is?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:21, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

==Miner is moodable?==

Just had a legendary miner with no masonry, not even dabbling, claim a masonry shop and made a marble coffer artifact. He was in a secretive mood. It was even weirder in that he gained no experience even though he was not possessed. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 02:26, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

:He probably did gain experience - just in mining. Since he was already advanced skill wise, he wouldn't even get any attributes from the bump in experience.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 02:29, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

::This is all covered in the article - read Skills and workshops and check the list for miner --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 02:33, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

::: whoops missed it >.> Wait, why isn't miner on the moodable list then? Do people not know if it is weighted at 6? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:22, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::: Ummm... it's there on the moodable list, right between metalsmith and stone crafter. As for weighting... hmmm, you're right, and no mention of it in the original forum thread (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35257.msg545835#msg545835). Have to ask [[User:0x517A5D]], the original researcher. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Read it again. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:21, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
::::::Honestly, I liked it better the other way - it was a positive confirmation of any and every relevant profession, and emphasized both profession vs. skill, and also moodable professions vs. non-moodable, both of which some players are vague on. As you've correctly pointed out before, why delete any useful info once it's up? (Do you know for a fact that Miner is one of the non-weighted professions?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:44, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Deleting info? The current version delivers all of the information of the previous version except in a more compact way. I don't believe in inflating the size of an article when it neither delivers more information nor makes it easier to access. Doing so only introduces errors when editing it and interpreting it. The situation of doubt over the miner was caused by an error of omission when the section was [http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php?title=Strange_mood&diff=next&oldid=41277917 changed] from something similar to the current version to create the three section table. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
::::If possible, birthright likes detailed lists for their explicitness, and feels they ''are'' easier accessible sometimes. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 23:48, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

== nonsense - expl. m. focuses on '''not''' mining a lot of stone ==

Why is any one particular mining method better for increasing your artifact limit? All we care about is pure mass mined, right? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

: It's the quantity of revealed tiles that counts. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:59, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
::Yes, '''revealed'''. I both forgot and misread that and bow my head in shame --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 13:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

== Happiness ==
I've added a little remark in mood types about the happiness state of moody dwarves at the moment of the announcement. I had 7 different fortresses with at least 5 artifacts in each. All the time my possessed dwarves were "quite content", while fey and secretive were "happy" or even "ecstatic". Royal dining rooms ahoy!– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Insecticide|Insecticide]]
:I agree this seems to be the case. All my "quite content" dwares turn possessed. This is very likely also because we know you need to be unhappy for a fell mood. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 08:45, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
:Okay upon further research, you ''can'' get a fey mood when quite content. However, ''all'' of my possessed dwarves were quite content. More research would be nice :) [[User:Greep|Greep]] 08:14, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
::Toady is a mean little bitch. I pride myself in a 100% ecstatic fortress and yet i have the occasional posessed mood and yes, they are all quite content. This nagged me badly and so i did a bit save game juggling: All posessed dwarfs, 5 so far, were ecstatic ''before'' being posessed and ''content'' after. In 2 cases i could even reload a save just 2 days back and all 5 had the same thoughts displayed. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 22:49, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
:::Hmmm, yes I just noticed that tantrums work the same way. I had a dwarf get his only masterpiece defaced so he's at -1000. He throws a tanturm and magically goes from miserable to very unhappy. Then after the tantrum goes back to miserable. It's happened 4 times in a row with him [[User:Greep|Greep]] 02:53, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
::::It seems the same applies to secretive moods, will collect more data. It might be implemented this way to ensure a proper chance of the artifact to fail - along the lines of fey: hey lets build a great thingy versus secret and posessed: I NEED to do this --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 10:27, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

== Obok not playing by the rules? ==
"If two skills are at the same experience, the first listed for that dwarf will be the one affected by the mood."

Novice Mason, Novice Engraver - First listed was Mason, but he became legendary engraver. Does this mean he had more XP as engraver but was still novice or is the statement just wrong? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 02:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:It depends on the exact amount of [[Experience|experience points]] they have in each skill. There's not really an in-game way to see this, but [[User:Bartavelle/DwarfCompanion|Dwarf Companion]] will show it.    —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 20:13, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Strange mood

2009-08-06T20:40:43Z

Loganis: /* Detailed strange mood mechanics */

== Detailed strange mood mechanics ==
[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35257.msg545835#msg545835 see post] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:02, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

:& updated to include more/all of same. Also re-organized presentation to better fit expanded sub-sections.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 13:47, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:Now that we know so much about the mechanics of strange moods, what do you all think about moving that section to the bottom and protecting it with a "massive spoilers" warning the way [[thought|thoughts]] are? —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 19:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
::Works for me 100%. It would require a slight rewording/reworking of the "skills & workshops" subsection, for overall flow, perhaps splitting that info into the obvious and the not-so-obvious, to bridge the info leading into the "demands" subsection. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:15, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:::As long as it has spoilers its perfect

== misc ==
Does the new version still have the strange mood? It wouldnt be complete without it!

:It still exists, I've had it happen several times now, I went to the archive wiki and copy/pasted the old page.

::Isnt that why the wiki was nuked? To make sure that no old info lingers? Ill put some "verify" in there, I dont think that the bold text is enough for users to understand that some of this may no longer apply. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 06:03, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:::I agree. Although moods themselves don't seem to have been changed in this version, the changes to the stones/ores that they use means that some of the information in this article is no longer true. I'll have a go at cleaning it up when I have the proper time for it, but this wiki definitely needs a 'no copypasting from the archives' rule to avoid screwups like this. If people are going to copypaste old stuff, then it is downright irresponsible of them not to verify the accuracy of the information before committing it to the wiki. --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

I know, I was a huge fan of that little strange aspect of the old one.

I need my dwarfs to make more swordfish bone swords, and i still need some glass weapons/armor

The moods seem to have changed. One of my dwarfs went fey, made a nice hematite mug, and is now a legendary... Engraver. Very wierd, he also had no stoneworking or other craftdwarf skills. But he was a competent mason. This was also my fifth dwarf who took the same craftworkshop, so it's a bit strange. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 17:36, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Six fey dwarf, all took the craftdwarfshop, now my bowyer took one. Think it might be a bug. Is the 15 artifacts limit still in? --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:34, 8 November 2007 (EST)

:: Whohoo my second legendary engraver made a gold mug. My bowyer became a legendary engraver. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:40, 8 November 2007 (EST)
::: Scratch all that, one of my woodworkers just used a carpenters shop. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 07:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:Have you marked all statements in the article that risks being falsified with <nowiki>{{verify}}</nowiki>? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 19:41, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Hey, I am getting a dwarf who wants "raw...crystal". Help? -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]
:Probably wants raw crystal glass. I had a dwarf ask for "raw...green", they wanted raw green glass. Looks like Toady might have moved the glass demands out of the "rough...color" category. [[User:Iddq?|Iddq?]]

About the engravers taking over craftdwarf's shops and becoming legendary engravers afterwards is quite true. I recently got a bunch of immigrants, and the engraver that came with them fell into a strange mood before even crossing the bridge on my river. He took over a craftdwarf's workshop and made a basalt scepter, and now he's legendary level in engraving. So yeah, perfect laboratory conditions, he was 100% engraver when he went into his mood and came out a legendary engraver. --[[User:Zhang5|Zhang5]] 17:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)

It seems that no craft skill is required. I just had a peasant go into a strange mood. His skills were: competent marksdwarf; novice wrestler; novice armor wearer. He grabbed a craftsdwarf's workshop and 10 items (3xFelsite, Schorls, Tigereyes, Red Beryls, Giant cave swallow leather, Grizzly Bear Leather, Rough harlequin opals and Ash logs -- guess he has expensive taste?) and churned out an idol in relatively short order. This is my 9th successful mood in this fortress, and I've seen requests for between 3 and 10 items, personally. Since they seem to be increasing in complexity, I've either hit the item cap, or I'm about to break ten :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:34, 19 November 2007 (EST)
:This is consistent with older versions. Moody peasants would become crafters, and 10 items was the cap. The minimum was 1 item -- generally when constructing a "perfect gem".--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:55, 19 November 2007 (EST)

I had a miner go into a strange mood, take over a mason's workshop, and make a something that got him up to legendary miner status. In my current fort, I have had 6 artifacts made, 2 of which were actual moods and 5 of which were possessions (I can add, one of them failed and the dwarf became a babbling wreck). My dwarves love to use only one item: an oak door (1 item), an olivine coffin (2 items), a turtle shell mask (1 item and is my cheapest artifiact at 3600), a diorite amulet (3 items), and a perfect jelly opal (1 item). --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)

Where to add the info that in my game (.33c) a miner took over a mason's workshop, became legendary miner and then held the artifact in his right hand instead of a pick, which became 'hauled', then droped the pick and then took the pick with his left hand? He can mine after all these. While holding a 667 weight units cabinet in his right hand. --[[User:Another|Another]] 10:07, 1 December 2007 (EST)

I had dwarf Miller, profecienty Grower who had Fey Mood, and he became a Legendary Mason ....
Is it normal ? [[user:Feydreva|Feydreva]]

One of my dwarves has become possessed and is demanding cloth, bones and stone, which I have plenty of. But he refuses to go fetch them. Is there something I'm doing wrong?—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] ([[User talk:Patarak|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Patarak|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
: They want either silk or fiber cloth. Make sure you have both! [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 03:40, 21 January 2008 (EST)

Aargh! One of my dwarves went secretive and is demanding a huge list of stuff. He seems to be demanding two types of stone because the "sketches quarry" message stays on twice as long as the others. I have (and he has gathered) flint: is there any way to tell what kind of stone he wants? --[[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 011:55, 7 March 2008 (EST)
==Glassmaker==
I had a Glassmaker that sat around when I had a lot of Magma Glass Furnaces, but then decided to get going when I made a regular Glass Furnace. Seems like they will only use a specific kind. Not sure yet if it's random. Might be they won't take the Magma Glass Furnace in version 38a. Can anyone verify? --[[User:Afbee|Afbee]] 05:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

: My Glassmaker successfully used Magma Glass Furnace in a fey mood. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 07:54, 24 February 2008 (EST)
:: I just had the same problem. I had a glass maker who wouldn't take over a magma glass furnace. Since I'm creating a glass fortress and had a mess of glass orders piled up, I thought that might have confused the AI and I built 2 more magma glass furnaces. No dice, he didn't want them. After reading this page I decided to create a normal glass furnace. He snapped it up as soon as it was built. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 04:07, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::I had the exact same experience as [[Alkyon]], namely I had lots of magma glass furnaces but they wanted a normal one. Anybody else confirm what [[Digger]] has experienced?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
:::This has been observed countless times with magma forges vs standard forges - no reason to expect it should be any diff w/ glass furnaces.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

==Maximum number of artifacts==
Well, I just got my umpteenth mood, and it resulted in the 16th successfully created artifact.(33b) So that 15 cap thing is clearly wrong. As it happens, this single artifact is worth 754,800, and is an adamantine spear decorated with, among other things, adamantine. For the record, in case this data is important to someone tabulating number of ingredients, my moods in order created the following objects using the corresponding number of ingredients: (Flute, 4; Mechanism, 4; Spear, 3; Millstone, 6; Ring, 8; Chest, 7; Cape, 7; Ring, 9; Statue, 8; Idol, 10; earring, 8; Buckler, 8; Table, 3; Mechanism, 10; Bracelet, 5; and Spear, 8). [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:54, 27 November 2007 (EST)

Do fell/macabre moods still exist? I haven't seen any for quite a few versions. It'd be nice to have that verified.—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] ([[User talk:Rabek|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rabek|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

== clarification on "trade" skills ==

Are trade skills all the skills that produce items with some level of quality? Mainly I want to know if dyer is a trade skill. And how does that work with miner? I didn't think miner was a trade skill. Maybe someone who knows more than me could clarify in the wiki.
I just got my first artifact. It's worth 2400. The dwarf took one log and made a scepter. -[[User:Radtse|Radtse]]

:I don't know exactly, we should make a list of the skills we know are not trade skills. I'll start: my brewer/grower once got a strange mood and made a wood item and gained woodcrafting skill. Let's try to only add to the list when we have experienced a moody dwarf with that skill only.--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 19:36, 27 December 2007 (EST)

::I'm adding Weaver and Furnace Operator to this list, since they're on the wiki. I haven't seen them myself, but I'm assuming someone else has. Knowing that Furnace Operator is a "fey-able" skill will be quite helpful.-[[User:Radtse|Radtse]] 18:28, 29 December 2007 (EST)

:::Where's cooking fit in? --[[User:KittenyKat|KittenyKat]] 20:09, 6 January 2008 (EST)

List of non-trade skills:

* [[Brewer]]
* [[Grower]]
* [[Miller]]
* [[Wood Cutter]]

Skills that may be used and gained by dwarves with no trade skills:

* [[Wood crafter]]
* [[Stone crafter]]

Skills that use a different skill(See list above), but give correct skill:

* [[Miner]]
* [[Engraver]]
* [[Furnace Operator]]
* [[Weaver]]

:::For the record, i can confirm both Furnace Operator and Weaver, since no one else has commented to verify them thus far. (The weaver actually surprised me when it happened). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:43, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

:::I can confirm that a Miner will claim a Mason's shop, and produce a stone item, even with no Mason skill at all. It works just like the wiki says. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 23:47, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

:::And I can confirm that Wood Cutter does not contribute -- I had a Novice Glassmaker/No Prefix Wood Cutter take a glass furnace. [[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]] 13:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== mood condition ==
The 20 dwarves / no crazy stuff has been found while looking at the binary of v0.27.169.33d, might be different now, but i don't think so. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 15:08, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Regarding the calulations for required maximum existing artifacts (items/200 and dugout/(48*48)) wouldn't it make more sense to either use the squared symbol, or the actual result of that square (which was the original number actually discovered/revealed I believe)? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:17, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:<sup>2</sup> --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 21:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

:20 dorf must be still there. I've made low-population fort and I had no mood for ~8 years (from start). I'm sure that I've digged at least 2700 tiles and created at least 300 items. I will test if raising population to 20 will cause moods. I think that 20 dwarf limit should be mentioned even if it's not confirmed. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 18:30, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

== Random Workshop Seizure ==

I just had a gem cutter seize a carpenter's workshop and make a perfect gem; upon completion I had a worthless Legendary dwarf and a new jeweler's workshop, so I guess that's still in from the previous version. I've removed the verify in the article. [[User:Tacroy|Tacroy]] 16:51, 9 January 2008 (EST)

:nonsense. Should be a bigger chance of making ZOMG high-quality gem crafts now ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 07:35, 18 February 2008 (EST)

::More to the point, if you don't like the profession your dwarf has Legendary in...draft for the stats! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:16, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== forbidden items ==

Do moody dwarfs use forbidden items? Will they demand forbid items? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 02:07, 21 February 2008 (EST)

:I don't know whether moody dwarves will use forbidden items (my guess would be they won't). But they don't choose the demands based on what is on the map, they can and do demand things you don't have. So it's safe to assume forbidding doesn't prevent dwarves from demanding the forbidden kind of item. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 16:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

::Forbidden items are not used. Similarly, if your mooder slipped in e.g. an iron bar when you wanted him to use a platinum bar, you can forbid AND dump the item to stop him from using it. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:35, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

== Impossible Requests? ==
Will dwarves try to use items that you just don't have access to? I had a dwarf asking for silk when I haven't imported any and I'm pretty sure there isn't a giant spider anywhere. Also asking for "rocks" when I have mined at least one of each type of rock that is visible (requiring rocks from unmined areas seem pretty harsh). Also a request for "metal bars" when I have smeltered at least one of each ore I have found and made at least one of each possible alloy. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 23:27, 26 February 2008 (EST)
:Yeah, impossible stuff is all my dwarves ever want. :-P Right now mine appears to want stone I don't have, and no traders have come by with any stone.... So my guys are frantically mining in various directions.... [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 13:59, 7 March 2008 (EST)

::As far as i can tell they never request anything it is truly impossible for you to get. Available by trade seems to imply possible for the game engine though. Too bad if its the start of winter (which is when all my moods which require things I don't have and can't produce happen, of course). But if there's no sand on your map at all you will not be asked for glass, since you can't trade for sand. (If there's 5 tiles of sand under that underground lake you haven't found yet... sucks to be you - my first fortress lost 3 dwarves to this). So yes, requiring things present on the map that you haven't found yet appears to be possible and routine. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:48, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

== Procastinator! ==

I just had a moody dwarf demand bones, wood, rocks, and cloth.

He got the rocks okay, and then did nothing for ages. Then, as soon as the fire imp corpse rotted away, he ran down and got the bones, then ran over to my wood stockpile and got a piece of wood...

Do they need to get their ingredients in order now?--[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 06:28, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:i think so, not that it matters, he wont start unless he has ALL the ingridents.

== gems ==
My moody dwarf asked for 2 kinds of rough gems, but i had cut all rough ones at that point. So i "printed out" all layers and started checking for leftover gems in the walls. Guess what, he picked the first 2 kinds i mined. So either

* random/pure luck (don't think so)
* they only ask what they "see"
* they only ask what is somehow on the map
* or they might even adapt somewhat to availability, but i doubt that. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:59, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:I believe, but don't know for sure, that sometimes they want specific items and sometimes they just want anything in a category of items, such as any rough gems in this case. It used to work that way in the 2d version, didn't it? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:23, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
::Confirming behaviour that BahamutZERO sees. Dwarves will '''always''' grab the closest object that falls under the category unless he is requesting a specific metal, specific silk, or specific plant fiber cloth. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:25, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

== Just standing around? ==

I have a dwarf who was possessed, but won't leave the main hall. He's also a novice in everything, but to be safe I've already cleared the shops. It's winter of my first year, but somehow I've already had 2 waves of immigrants. Back to the point, I'm afraid he's going to wait out the mood and go berserk. Help?
--[[User:Ilmmad|Ilmmad]] 20:00, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:Well, make sure u ve got one workshop of every possible kind available - there are however quite a few u dont need to build, its covered in the article. Check for locked doors or otherwise blocked access (bridges, channels, statues..) Dont forget furnaces, glass and magma. Check with 'q' if all workshops are completely build. If it doesnt help consider building workshops not related to his skills, or more "exotic" ones, like Ashery or Alchemist. No one can guarantee that Toady didnt have some new fun ideas ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:59, 6 March 2008 (EST)
Same thing happened to one of my lenegdary dwarves. He then went berserk in my legendary dining room.. in front of my crossbow champions. Blood ensued. And now it has happened again, my hard trained master glassmaker just stands in the meeting zone flashing purple excl. sign, despite the fact that magma glass furnace is up and running. Doh. --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 15:47, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
:And an update... this is pretty stupid. I've decided to build a regular glass furnace, just to see what happens, and guess what, my glassmaker happily proceeded to claim it and made me a ''Lushutilun Othornoshtath, Guilthaled the Erased Devourer'', a green glass statue. Neat-o. --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 16:02, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
::I can confirm this bug. I just had this happen to me too. I had three fully functional glass magma furnaces and he just stood in the middle of my meeting area. I went and built a regular glass furnace and he ran off and claimed it. Weird bug. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 04:10, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
:::Its not a bug, its a feature. --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 13:54, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

== stark raving suicide ==

My mechanic wanted silk cloth, which I didn't have, and eventually gone insane ("stark raving mad" to be precise).
Seconds after that I had message that he died in heat (I had artificial magma pool nearby).
He probably jumped into the pool like in melancholy. Main article states that only melancholic dwarves kill themselves in such way.
Could anyone confirm that mad ones do that too, and this wasn't just an accident/bug? [[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 16:59, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

:Perhaps it ''was'' an accident -- I seem to recall that "stark raving mad" ones wander around at random. Perhaps it wandered into the lava. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 18:30, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

::It was an accident, the stark raving mad ones wander around aimlessly, regardless of Z- levels. --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 12:53, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Glassmaker with no glass ==

I had an immigrant glassworker get a mood, seize a glass workshop, and created an artifact made entirely of gemstones. No glass involved or asked for. (No sand on the map, anyway.) He turned into a Legendary Glassworker, despite having never made a glass anything.

== Rewrite ==

I think I got most of the old information and then some into the new article. Please make any necessary modifications. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 01:22, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

== Silk Cloth ==

I had a dwarf demand silk cloth, but he refused to use my giant cave spider silk cloth. I didn't have any regular cave spider silk cloth. To verify that the silk was the problem, I used Companion to change the silk demand to any stone, and he immediately collected the rest of the materials and constructed the artifact.
Can anyone else confirm that giant cave spider silk cloth does '''not''' count as silk cloth? --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:55, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:No, I'm pretty sure I can't. I've seen a dwarf grab GCS silk. Could it be that you had thread and not cloth? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:59, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::Nope, giant cave spider cloth [3] sorted under cloth on the stock screen. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 16:52, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
Probably they may specifically require GCS silk or specifically require CS silk. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 14:10, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
I figured it out - the silk was outside and I had accidentally left "Dwarves Stay Inside" on after the latest attack. --[[User:Doniazade|Doniazade]] 08:52, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

== Engineer taken by secretive mood, and creates... ==

Evidently engineers who are taken by a secretive mood ("withdraws from society", in case it's later determined that the descriptor has an effect) will have no problems taking over the mechanic's workshop. And there's only one thing mechanic-shops build - that's right, you heard right, ladies and gentlemen, I present ''Kodor ós: A claystone mechanism''. It's even available for use from the appropriate {{k|b}})uild screens. He decided to make this splendid 86,400o creation while on an eight-mechanism binge in that very same mechanic's workshop. Maybe dwarves choose the workshop they've been in the most often? --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:31, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

:Ah, actually I can confirm I've had a Mechanic create an artifact mechanism as well. Stick some obsidian swords in that baby and you'll be good to go! That should probably go in the main article for skills vs workshops... I would expect siege engineers also have strange moods, but I imagine pump op and siege op fall under the general craftsman catch-all --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 15:45, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::I'd like to smack BismuthBismuthBismuth with the facts stated in the article.
A dwarf will claim a workshop according to their highest applicable skill
::In this case it was Engineering and therefore your mechanic went to a Mechanic's Workshop. It's the same with the possessed glassmakers. They hit a glassmaker's shop. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:49, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:::I'd like to hit GreyMario-Maria, preferably in the upper-body region, with the fact that at the time of my post, the table in the article did not mention mechanics whatsoever. --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 22:26, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
::::Pardon me, but I was not aware that ''mechanics'' worked at a ''mechanic's workshop'', where objects are created that have ''quality mofidiers'' and can thus become ''artifacts''. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:28, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
:::::Pardon me as well, but it seems that the table in [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&oldid=25231 this particular revision] did not encapsulate this information. '''GreyMario is throwing a tantrum!''' --[[User:BismuthBismuthBismuth|BismuthBismuthBismuth]] 15:22, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
::::::Mechanics. Work at a mechanic's workshop. Produce items which have visible quality modifiers. Items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to be artifacts. THEREFORE, mechanics claim mechanic's workshops when they go fey. Seriously, logic sometimes, please? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:30, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
:::::::That would follow if we knew for certain that the proposition "items with visible quality modifiers are eligible to artifacts" is necessarily true. We don't. For instance, siege engine components are not verified as artifact eligible. Since that isn't a given, it's perfectly reasonable for people to not jump to the conclusion that a job type will create artifacts relevant to it until they see it happen. —[[User:Chaos|Chaos]] 16:26, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

i love the absurd randomness factor with artifacts - you end up with really weird stuff. like grates, and socks. a question pertinent to legendary mechanisms - i got a stupidly valuable one of these as the first legendary item in a new fort and i used it to create a gear assembly in a public dining area in the hopes that it would give dwarves happy thoughts, but after a few years gametime of checking randomly on them nothing particular showed up. any particular use along these lines for legendary mechanisms for something other then simple fortress value? --[[User:FruityBix|FruityBix]] 11:51, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
: weapon traps! --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 12:03, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
:: FWIW, that might be a more general answer for artifact items... I had a Weaponsmith dwarf go into a strange mood and create a lead warhammer (Yes, there was plenty of steel and iron around, but this dwarf likes lead, I guess). It can't be equipped as a weapon (lead isn't a valid material type normally for constructing weapons) but I can put it into a weapons trap. Which... is basically the only thing I can do with this 65000* artifact... -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:37, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
::: Actually, artifact equipment can be used, it just requires a "hero" level dwarf or higher. However, for the nonstandard material weapons and armor you may do well to forbid them so that they're not used. The actual effectiveness of odd material artifacts is supposedly lower than that of decent iron or steel equipment, and artifact equipment cannot be unequipped once a dwarf decides to use it. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 15:36, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
:Build your artifact mechanism into a really, really, really wonderful well. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 11:37, 13 December 2008 (EST)

== Tanner fixed ==

I just had a Tanner claim a leather works, not a tannery. I updated the table. For the record, the dwarf has no skill level in leather working.

:I wonder if Tanners even claim Tanner's shops? Tanner's shops just make leather, and leather doesn't have quality modifiers, so you shouldn't be able to produce an artifact from one, aye? That information came from an older version of the page, I wonder if it was inaccurate. Weavers supposed claim Clothier's shops and not Looms, so it would make sense if Tanners were the same way. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 18:08, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

== Cooks ==

I can confirm that cooks do not produce artifacts: my Peasant with Dabbling Cook/Brewer/(various social) and nothing else just took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop. I'm removing the verify tag for cooks in the article. --[[User:Comonad|Comonad]] 16:16, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

mmmm. . . . artifact roast. [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 19:12, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

== Soapers etc. ==

It stands to reason that soapers, lye makers, and wood burners wouldn't make artifacts. Neither soap, lye, charcoal, nor ash have quality modifiers, and that's all those skills can produce. I'm pretty sure you can't have artifact soap, lye, charcoal, or ash. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 20:26, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

: My woodburner just got possessed. He wants a shell and wood. I have the shell but I'm not sure what type of wood he wants. --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 20:18, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

: I just had a Soap Maker (his only skill, a fresh immigrant) get possessed. He took over a Craftsdwarf's Workshop and with an obsidian stone, 3x turtle shells and a giant cave spider silk cloth and made a turtle shell toy boat. --[[User:Cal|Cal]] 01:32, 20 April 2009 (CDT)

== Not all demands need to be met ==

I just had a dwarf taken by a secretive mood and collect a huge variety of things: 4 stone, 1 block, 1 gem, 2 rough gems, bones, a shell, 2 leather. He was further sketching for more bones, 2 leather, another stone, a log, another shell, and raw green glass. The only things I didn't have on hand were the shell and the green glass -- dwarves seem to go through their list in order, and get stuck on certain items.

I just hoped someone would eat a turtle (50/1678 chance!) and queued a raw green glass. When the glass was made, he got started, totally ignoring his previous requests for wood, another shell, and the other things. Anyone else have this experience? [[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 13:28, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

:I think they keep sketching images even after they get the items. Your dwarf already had all of the shells, leather, bones, stones, blocks, and gems he needed. [[User:Curudan|Curudan]] 15:26, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

::This is correct. I've had dwarves run out, grab two items, and then sit at the Workshop shouting a need for three items. When the item he was waiting on became available, he ran out, grabbed it, went back in, and started working. So it's pretty evident that they list ALL of the items they want, regardless of how many of them they've already collected. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 22:28, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

== Possession ==

I've had 14 moods in my current Fortress, 11 of them have been possessions. Am I really unlucky, or is the type of mood weighted? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:55, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
: As far as I can tell by looking at the game logic, each mood types are as likely to be rolled (except fell of course, which is selected if happiness<rand(128) or something like that). --[[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:56, 3 September 2008 (EDT)
:: I had a feeling I was just getting really unlucky, thanks. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:34, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

== Furnace Operator ==

Apparently furnace operator is no longer a mood skill as of df 28 181 40d. I just had a expert furnace operator take over a Craftdwarf's Workshop and become a legendary stonecrafter. [[User:Otherdwarf|Otherdwarf]] 10:26, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
:I had one take over a mason's workshop, I would guess that Furnace Operator is treating like Engraver or Miner. I'm kind of disappointed, I was hoping he'd churn out an artifact coke or something.[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 13:03, 14 November 2008 (EST)

::Back when furnace operator was moodable, they'd turn out metal crafts. But taking over a mason's workshop is surprising. Occasionally they'll take over a random workshop and convert it into the type they want -- what artifact did the dwarf produce? And, just to rule out some obvious things, did the dwarf have dabbling skill in mining, masonry, or engraving?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:51, 14 November 2008 (EST)
:::He went crazy looking for some kind of rough gem, so we'll never know. It was ''right'' after the dwarf trading caravan left, too, so I really had no chance whatsoever. I don't know for sure what skills he had, I don't think he had much other than Furnace Operator, Architect, and the social skills though. I ''might'' have enabled mining, but there was plenty of work for him at the smelter so I don't know for sure.--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 15:56, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Chunk Butchery? ==

Well, even though the selection of items for artifacts is totally random, its a bit wierd if a macabre dwarf goes to a butcher's workshop and starts bringing in tons of dwarf CHUNKS! My dwarf just started doing that, should I expect rotting meat (yes, the chunks are already rotten)? - 09:57, 30 October 2008 Stinhad Limarezum
: ^_^ "This is a delicious meat pie. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. On the item is an image of a dwarf and dwarves in rotting dwarf chunks. The dwarf is baking the other dwarves into meat pies. The artwork relates to the rise of the dwarf butcher Sweeney Todd as the cook of The Fleet Street in 78" -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:11, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:Oh, ''do'' post the description of the artifact when the dwarf completes it. ("Menaces with spikes of dwarf chunk?" I'd be intimidated for sure.)--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:18, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== What Workshop? ==

Is there any way to discover what workshop a dwarf in a secretive mood requires? I had nearly everything. I built a siege workshop and a bowery before I ran out of ideas and he went beserk. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 10:55, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:You have to look at what skills he has first and rule out the obvious. If he has no mood-able skills then it's going to be a craftsdwarf's workshop. If you have hit magma and he wants a forge or glass furnace, he will insist on the magma version of that workshop. Finally, maybe one of your existing workshops was inaccessible or you accidentally [[forbid]] it at some point. If none of that works, I'm out of ideas too.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:01, 3 November 2008 (EST)
::I have a functioning magma glass furnace and I had to build a normal glass furnace when my glass maker became secretive. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 14:23, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Same here, in fact I had 2 moody glass making dwarves refuse to use anything but a normal glass furnace when there were 5 fully functional magma glass furnaces in the same fort. (sorry, almost forgot to sign) --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:27, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Ditto. A glassmaker got possessed and refused to use my magma glass furnace. I had to build a regular one. --[[User:Schwern|Schwern]] 19:33, 27 December 2008 (EST)

:::Ah. In older versions, they'd insist on a magma workshop, when possible. Do they now insist on using a regular workshop, or has anyone seen a moody dwarf use a magma workshop in recent versions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::::I believe my metalsmith is waiting for my magma forge to come on line, I have a standard forge built, but that isn't doing anything for him. Does anyone know what effect fluctuating power will have on the strange mood? Edit: If a claimed workshop looses power for even a millisecond, the mood fails. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 12:02, 18 November 2008 (EST)
::::I can confirm that an Armorsmith will use a magma furnace, and if the furnace loses magma after it is claimed (Even if the dwarf is out collecting materials), the mood will fail. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 07:22, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

== Possessed Child ==

I have a child that has become possessed and taken over one of my craft workshops (of course). He is muttering the following: rough color, leather skin, bone yes, stone rock, cloth thread, blocks bricks, and a shell. He has already acquired the following: turtle bones, donkey bones [4], microcline blocks, turtle shell, rough pink garnets, dog leather, carp leather, and hematite. I have plenty of all the things that he's already gathered, so I'm assuming that he doesn't need anymore of those items. That leaves the thread. I have turned off my auto-loom a while ago so that I would keep the thread around for artifacts. I currently have plenty of plant thread (4 pig tail and 14 rope reed) and enough spider silk (5). What I don't have is giant spider silk. I have confirmed that the child has access to all these items, including the thread which I have piles next to his workshop. Still he doesn't start construction.

Can any help? Is there a difference for artifact creation between regular cave spider silk and giant cave spider silk? ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]

:Do you have both silk and plant cloth available? (Not just thread.) And do you see any specific cloth preferences in his thoughts and preferences screen?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:32, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::Argh. I bet that's it. No silk cloth, just thread. I have had guys go crazy for lack of thread before, so I never make silk cloth, just kept the thread. Oh well, the child is now melancholy. I can re-load and see what would happen if I make the thread into cloth. Maybe I'll test that out. ---[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]]

::: Wouldn't you be able to solve this problem by only weaving dyed thread? Then you'll always have some thread waiting to be dyed. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 03:04, 6 November 2008 (EST)

::::You could also leave high quality, expensive materials lying around Forbidden, and only Claim them when someone's trying to make an artifact. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 15:07, 11 November 2008 (EST)

== Getting More Strange Moods ==

According to the article, the number of artifacts is limited by "The number of items created divided by 200." This indicates that making bolts (5 for each bone or 25 for each log) or brewing (5 units of drink for each unit of plant brewed) are efficient ways to encourage strange moods. Does that sound accurate?

It also states that the number of revealed subterranean tiles is a limit. Does that mean an area like a chasm, where many tiles are revealed to start with, will produce more strange moods?

Also, does anyone know whether the division rounds up or down? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 22:24, 16 November 2008 (EST)

:I'd be willing to bet all stacks count as only one "item" for this kind of calculation. 200 sounds like a paltry number, however. If rocks are counted as items, most fortresses have thousands of them in just a few years. The other number is what is most significant (I wonder where the heck it comes from?) I've had four miners digging non-stop for about 10 years now, and my stocks menu says I have 70,000 stones. Allowing for underground soil tiles (which don't produce stone) and stone/ore consumed by industry, each miner can probably clear about 2,000 tiles a year: one artifact. I have 21 artifacts in my fortress now (and two failed moods early on), so if that rate is indicative, I'd say you want to employ three or more miners non-stop to maximize your chances.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:09, 17 November 2008 (EST)

::The guy who wrote [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stone_management#Block_Stockpile this] doesn't seem to think that stones count as created items. Also, "revealed tiles" is ambiguous. For example, [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Exploratory_mining#Mine_shafts this] method is very good at showing you what's inside of a tile without actually mining it out. Do you suppose that seeing whats inside is enough?

::Where do you think these numbers came from anyway? I'm gonna take a look through the edit history and try to track them down. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 00:15, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::They came during [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Strange_mood&diff=25038&oldid=24936 this edit]. They're so specific I've got to think the author did some poking around with a disassembler. Again, though, 200 is such a paltry number. If underground "open space" counts, then discovering a chasm, bottomless pit, or magma pipe should many thousands thousands of revealed tiles. If underground floor tiles are needed, you'll have to mine most of them out yourself.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:34, 17 November 2008 (EST)

::::I had a chat with [[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] over at his talk page, since he edited the page around the time the changes were made. He seemed fairly certain that all you had to do to "reveal" a tile was to have a passable square next to it, so I edited the article to reflect that. He did not, however, know anything about how bolts or stones would affect things. Right now my hopes are on [[User:Marble_Dice|Marble Dice]], whom I believe made the actual addition. I'm not sure if he's a very active user though.

::::By the way, the reason I'm doing all this is that I'm considering optimizing a fortress for strange moods: have '''lots''' of dwarves with only "dabbling" in a single strange mood skill to gain maximum benefit from the moods. Any ideas for fortress strategies that will go well with this? [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 02:44, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::::I saw the conversation -- I keep my eye on [[Special:Recentchanges]]. What he says about "reveal" is correct, as far as I know. I still wonder about "open space" tiles. If they count as revealed, all you really need to do is find a chasm/pit/magma pipe and you'll be in moods for years to come.

:::::I've done the dabbling strategy in the past. It's best to emphasize just a few skills you really really want that are otherwise hard to train due to limited materials -- armorsmith, weaponsmith, bone carver, leatherworker, carpenter, etc. It works fine with any fortress strategy.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 04:30, 17 November 2008 (EST)

== Two missing labors ==

Strand Extractor and Blacksmith don't currently appear in either the Causes Moods category or the Doesn't Cause Moods category. I put Strand Extractor in Doesn't Cause Moods and the Blacksmith in Causes Moods; feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong. [[User:Gairabad|Gairabad]] 19:59, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:I can confirm that blacksmith is moodable, I've got a nice steel chest to show for it. It stands to reason that strand extractor isn't moodable, but we don't know for sure -- I've slapped a verify on it.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:01, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:Confirmed that strand extractor doesnt have an associated strange mood. My strand extractor/fish cleaner/grower entered a strange mood and became a legendary bone carver. --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 06:15, 9 February 2009 (EST)

== Order of stuff ==

I'm wondering if dwarves always claim items in a certain order. For example, when a dwarf wants three pieces of wood he always wants them back-to-back, never wood gem wood bone wood. So are types ALWAYS in a certain order? My current moody dwarf wanted two bars of metal, then spider silk cloth, then ash logs, then bones, then a rough gem, then a shell. Knowing the order might help you guess what the dwarf wants next if he doesn't need to wait for anything (and thus tell you what he wants). This might be useful for micromanaging forbidding stuff to make sure your dwarf gets the highest value things available. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:19, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:<s>This is actually well-defined in the article, if you'd bothered to look close enough. Dwarves will gather items in the order they scream their demands in.</s> It's unknown. I think there's no real order, just similar things end up grouped together. :V --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:32, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::fail. Uh, I mean, as soon as anyone else sees a strange mood, it can either be disproven, or we can start putting some data together immediately and be done pretty quick. I saw: Metal Bars, Silk Cloth, Wood, Bones, Rough Gem, Shell. If anyone sees bones before wood or something, that means there's no guaranteed order. But no harm done. :) --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:36, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:::It's simpler than that. Items have a certain number of slots for improvements, and for artifacts the first improvement slot is always filled by the base material of the item. Then the rest are filled in order, with whatever is a valid candidate for that slot (which is probably 'anything that's anything' in every case, though I'm not absolutely sure.) So, there isn't any explicit sorting because it has to be in order.

:::If you fill an item's slots with ordinary decoration, which is easiest to do by encrusting a wide variety of gems on a piece of furniture or the like, you'll see what I mean. Maybe. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 23:40, 26 November 2008 (EST)

::::Ah! So you're saying that instead of generating a list of ingredients, it first plans out the artifact itself, saying "This one is a chest, it has hanging rings and an image, first let's get a material for the chest, then a material for the hanging rings, then a material for the image"? That makes a ton of sense, and answers my question. Thanks! --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 23:47, 26 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Well, I know it doesn't do that, because if you close the game and reopen it, you can get different items... With my elf game, I had one artifact that came out as either a thong, a left mitten, or a rope on five tries. But it's roughly the same idea, even with the details randomized upon creation. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 00:05, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Fell Mood Demands ==

It looks like when a brooding dwarf sits in the tanner's shop and says he needs "Things..." what he's looking for is vermin remains. Other demands are like in Fey moods. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 22:24, 3 December 2008 (EST)

== Confusing macabre mood ==

My mayor just entered one, while 'quite content', claimed a smelter, waited for a bit, until the parts appeared (the vermin must have died). He then created a roach rock chitin bracelet, and gained the carpenter skill. Am I missing something here? Smelter, rock and carpenter don't seem to mix well... Note: The only skills were proficient cook and fish cleaner, with some dabbling and noice social.--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 13:03, 6 December 2008 (EST)

:Carpenter? Or wood crafter? Claiming a smelter isn't out of the question: they sometimes grab a random workshop and turn it into the one they want (is it still a smelter?). And what is roach rock? Give the actual description of the artifact.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:14, 6 December 2008 (EST)

::Carpenter. It's still a smelter, yes. "This is a large roach chitin bracelet. All craftsdwaftship is of the highest quality. It is encircled with bands of large roach chitin and dwarf bone. This object menaces with spikes of rat leather."--[[User:Finbeer|Finbeer]] 15:32, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:::Hmm. Post that one on the forums, find out if it's an actual bug. Does sound pretty nonstandard.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:50, 7 December 2008 (EST)

:::: :-D Pretty sure that a roach is an actual bug. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 09:00, 8 December 2008 (EST)

:::::D'oh.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:56, 8 December 2008 (EST)

::::::I did have two very close together, but I am certain that neither had any carpenter skill, and the smelter was claimed.

: I've just had a similar occurance. Immediately after a goblin ambush (that killed 5 of my soldiers and caused major unhappiness in many dwarves), one dwarf that had lost a friend but was just "content" clained a tanner's workshop, grabbed a rhesus macque chunk, and made a rather boring rhesus macaque leather amulet (no embelishments apart from rhesus macaque leather bands). It did have quite an impressive name though - Gethustongos Nelas Luror, "Harshtainted the Flicker of Cruelties". The dwarf herself became a Legendary Weaponsmith, despite having no weaponsmithing skill! (Her highest skill was unlabled armoring). [[User:Iapetus|Iapetus]] 19:47, 10 January 2009 (EST)
::I imagine the requirement for a macabre/fell mood is having a thought psychology of less than 0 (being 'unhappy'). "Quite Content" shows up until -25, and then 'fine' is -26 to -50, so either of these diagnoses would theoretically qualify for a fell/macabre mood. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:05, 14 January 2009 (EST)

:I think macabre moods have a bug or something. I had a fisherdwarf go macabre, and he was definitely very unhappy since my fortress had fallen into a terrible state of unhappiness (ask me some other time). He went to a butcher's workshop and made a Large Roach Chitin Ring. I can't remember what skill he got but it was definitely not leatherworking or butchery.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 05:31, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== Rough Gems ==

EVERY Fey Mood that has happened for the last 3 years has required Rough Gems! Argh! Mining out an entire Z-level has found ONE GEM, which I was idiotic enough to cut the instant I found it. I do not have Rough Gems. You cannot buy Rough Gems. My fortress will die slowly and painfully without Rough Gems. Cut green glass is good enough when a fey dwarf demands cut gems, why isn't raw green glass good enough when they want rough gems? Can it be made good enough with a mod? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 11:19, 13 December 2008 (EST)

:Dig down to an igneous intrusive level - they have more gems. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:19, 13 December 2008 (EST)

::To mod out gem-demanding fey dwarves, you could remove all gems and then generate a new world. Alternatively, if you don't mind the lack of moods, turn them off in init.txt. Personally, I highly dislike moods, since they just make it that much easier to have abundant so-called "legendary" dwarves, although the random killer effect is quite nice. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:15, 13 December 2008 (EST)

:Regarding "why isn't raw green glass good enough when they want rough gems" -- it is good enough. I've had fey dwarves grab raw green glass a half-dozen times. I think it's more likely that all the raw green glass in your fortress was TASKED, and therefore unavailable to the fey dwarf. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:16, 12 January 2009 (EST)

==Trapper?==
Has anyone seen a dwarf get trapper experience from a mood? I've made a couple of artifact animal traps at this point, and all of them were by dwarves without the trapper skill who received xp in skills related to the material. (ie, my turtle-shell animal trap was made by someone who became a legendary bonecarver therefrom). I know I made a similar comment on the Trapper talk page. From the other end, I'm sure I've had immigrant trappers get moods before and have never seen a legendary trapper, although I don't recall specifically enough to be certain they had moods. But I've seen zero evidence that Trapper is actually a moodable skill. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:00, 15 December 2008 (EST)

==Craftdwarf's Workshop==
I just had a lye maker take over a metalsmith's forge and turn out a bracelet; now he's a legendary metalcrafter. I think that "Dwarves with only the following skills will construct their artifact at a craftsdwarf's workshop..." might be too constrictive, and that such dwarves could seize any craftdwarf-related workshop (including forges and carpenter's shops), not just a craftdwarf's workshop. Anyone else observed this behavior? --[[User:Wingus|Wingus]] 09:55, 22 December 2008 (EST)

:You're certain that the dwarf in question had no experience in any other tasks? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 11:19, 22 December 2008 (EST)

:Yes, the lyemaker had no other (non-social) skills. He was a recent immigrant I was using as a hauler. --[[User:Wingus|Wingus]] 11:35, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::There have been quite a few anomalous moods that we haven't documented properly yet.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 22 December 2008 (EST)

Figure this falls here. Had a Potash Maker refuse every shop I built, I had thought I had a craft shop. Turns out it was forbidden, I reclaimed it and he claimed it for his mood. I think this is verified.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 15:18, 3 January 2009 (EST)

== Time limit of a mood. ==

Do we have a fix on the exact time the player has to satisfy a mood before the dwarf goes insane? Any clue on whether it's fixed or variable?
--[[User:Shurikane|Shurikane]] 12:04, 27 December 2008 (EST)
:I don't have a specific time limit, nor have I checked for variability, but 60 days/2 months is very close to the limit in my experience. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:18, 12 January 2009 (EST)

== Injured with Mood? ==

I recently had a recruit break his arm in sparring, you know... dwarf stuff, anyways he went into a strange mood and now hes magically up out of bed and walking around to the workshop. Will this work too if the dwarf has a broken leg? EDIT: The dwarf just fell on the ground unconcsious... This could be a big problem

:I just had a dwarf who'd been resting for months with a broken left upper leg and broken lower body rise up and crawl to the mason's workshop. The power of Armok compels her! [[User:Heartofgoldfish|Heartofgoldfish]] 02:44, 13 February 2009 (EST)
::Her injuries weren't ones that would make her pass out, and so, she's completed Nishuthir, a limestone weapon rack! [[User:Heartofgoldfish|Heartofgoldfish]] 03:53, 13 February 2009 (EST)

==Siege Operator==
Is listed in the table as using a mechanics workshop. In the text to the left of the table says the dwarf will use a craftsdwarf's workshop. Which is correct?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 13:16, 2 March 2009 (EST)

:Siege operation produces nothing, so I'm fairly certain they use a craftdwarfs shop. But then, I've never had a Siege Operator (as highest skill) have a mood, so i can't absolutely verify that. I'd say even Siege Engineers need verification on what they do with moods - I've never seen one. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 20:54, 2 March 2009 (EST)
::I agree with your comments. Since I am using siege operators as a cross-training tool, several of my dwarfs are at legendary status. Each of them are dabbling weapon/armor smiths, so I'll update it when they get a mood. My last mood was a soldier with lots of soldier skills, but dabbling in metalwork, armor, and weaponsmith. I got a legendary weaponsmith out of it - Woot! Woot!
::As for the Siege engineer, I don't think they would produce a catapult or ballista part artifact. It just doesn't make sense. But, I agree, we definitely need to verify that one. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 13:50, 3 March 2009 (EST)
::I had a dwarf (legendary siege op., novice clothes, stone crafter, dabbling other things) get a mood. He took a craftsdwarf's workshop. [[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]], do you want to fix the front page?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:58, 4 March 2009 (EST)
:::Reasonably certain I already made the correct change on presumption, but i'll take a look. (done) --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 08:20, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::I edited that in about a month ago when I had an SO get a special mood and, yes, he claimed a mechanic's workshop. Probably worth verifying that independently but that's certainly what happened to me. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:13, 5 March 2009 (EST)
:::::The question would be 'was his highest mood skill mechanics', because that would cause him to take a mechanics workshop despite being a Siege Operator. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 09:36, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::::I'm pretty sure I checked and that it was siege operation; although I wouldn't swear that I remember it clearly, I'd like to think that I would have checked before wikifying it. Certainly worth keeping the verify tag for now, though. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:51, 5 March 2009 (EST)
::::::I had a SO with no other skills take a craftdwarf's shop. He was a peasant before I made him train in SO. I can't yet verify siege engineer (The skill that produces catapult parts). It would make sense. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 08:57, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::::In that case, my apologies. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:02, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

==Butcher==
Had a Butcher/Dabbling Tanner become a Legendary Tanner after a mood. Verified. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 08:23, 5 March 2009 (EST)

==Lye Maker==
Immigrant Lye Maker/Dabbling Leather Worker became a Legendary Leather Worker after a mood. Verified. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:31, 5 March 2009 (EST)

==Weirdness==
I just had a dwarf with legendary siege operator/legendary pump operator/legendary record keeper/ competent mason /previous mayor, so various levels of social and military skills that took a craftsdwarf's shop. I would have thought he'd take the mason's shop according to the rules here. Maybe the record keeper ALWAYS takes the craftdwarf's shop? Also, it was a possessed mood, so maybe that makes a difference?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 11:31, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

Weird. I've had Legendary record keepers take appropriate workshops for their mood skills. Ditto pump operator. All my siege operators end up being dwarves who ended up with useless mood skills (generally because they had moods as children), but that would be really weird if SO was considered a moodable skill that took the *craftdwarf* workshop. Too bad it was possession, we can't see where he got xp. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:04, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

:There's evidence that if the highest skill doesn't have a workshop, they'll switch to the next highest skill, and if that doesn't have a workshop, the next after that. Possibly, the game only checks this a certain number of times, say, twice, and then defaults to craftsman's workshop. This would eliminate instances where maybe a peasant has constructed a wall or two in his time, but he's a much better comedian, liar, and pacifier. Obviously, he's not a mason of any sort, so he defaults to craftsdwarf. --[[User:Mikaka|Mikaka]] 06:24, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I've had a couple possessed dwarves take craftdwarf's shops even though they had an applicable skill. I think that maybe the rules are a little difference for possesion; it would make sense since if you're possessed it shouldn't be your skills that matter. I don't know if this is just a fluke though, so it would be good to have confirmation. --[[User:Lemursdon'texist|Lemursdon'texist]] 16:53, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

:Mikaka, I don't agree. In my experience, if the highest '''moodable''' skill workshop doesn't exist, the dwarf just wonders around (and will eventually go insane unless the building gets built). I take my non-mood dwarfs (dyers, farmers, furnace operators) and have them make ONE piece of armor. When they get a mood, they always go to the forge and become legendary armorsmiths. Possessions, like Lemurs mentioned above, are different from other moods. Skills don't matter and they don't get experience for it.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:11, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

==Kablebes==

Craftsdwarf's Workshop

This building has been claimed by Zas Dedukudil, Farmer.

Zas Dedukudil keeps muttering Kablebes...

That is all. No other mutterings, nothing. --[[User:Zphobic|Zphobic]] 21:23, 15 April 2009 (CST)

::He's muttering the name of the thing that he will eventually produce. Don't worry about it, he's got everything he needs and is working. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:05, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== military ==
"Further, dwarfs with a military profession other than "Recruit" can '''not''' enter moods"

Does this mean that they can't be moody ''while'' being soldier and, as that, say, marksdwarf, but they can be moody as civilians while having skill in marksdwarf ''or'' does it not matter if soldier or civilian as long as marksdwarf is not their highest skill? --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 19:28, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
:I would need to look at the disassembly again to be absolutely sure, but what I remember is that if a military skill is their highest (non-social) skill, they won't enter into moods.   —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 00:47, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
::Hol - it's all about [[profession]]s. 0x5 - that's what your analysis of this said when you posted it on the forums. Military professions simply don't take moods. I'll edit and emphasize/clarify that.
::EDIT - Gah. Now that I'm half-way into it, I know how moods work, but I'm starting to doubt how the game reads "professions" - does activating change a dwarf's profession in the eyes of Moods? If a legendary Brewer has 2 ranks of hammerdwarf and are activated, are they a "brewer" or a "macedwarf"? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:01, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

== Personality ==

I'm 90% certain personality traits like "feels strong urges" "has a fertile imagination" and one other trait greatly influence the development of moods.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Eerr|Eerr]]
:I believe that you feel this way. Care to expand on why, and exactly what influence you believe they have? (and what that "one other trait" is?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:21, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

==Miner is moodable?==

Just had a legendary miner with no masonry, not even dabbling, claim a masonry shop and made a marble coffer artifact. He was in a secretive mood. It was even weirder in that he gained no experience even though he was not possessed. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 02:26, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

:He probably did gain experience - just in mining. Since he was already advanced skill wise, he wouldn't even get any attributes from the bump in experience.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 02:29, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

::This is all covered in the article - read Skills and workshops and check the list for miner --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 02:33, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

::: whoops missed it >.> Wait, why isn't miner on the moodable list then? Do people not know if it is weighted at 6? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:22, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::: Ummm... it's there on the moodable list, right between metalsmith and stone crafter. As for weighting... hmmm, you're right, and no mention of it in the original forum thread (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35257.msg545835#msg545835). Have to ask [[User:0x517A5D]], the original researcher. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Read it again. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:21, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
::::::Honestly, I liked it better the other way - it was a positive confirmation of any and every relevant profession, and emphasized both profession vs. skill, and also moodable professions vs. non-moodable, both of which some players are vague on. As you've correctly pointed out before, why delete any useful info once it's up? (Do you know for a fact that Miner is one of the non-weighted professions?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 18:44, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Deleting info? The current version delivers all of the information of the previous version except in a more compact way. I don't believe in inflating the size of an article when it neither delivers more information nor makes it easier to access. Doing so only introduces errors when editing it and interpreting it. The situation of doubt over the miner was caused by an error of omission when the section was [http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php?title=Strange_mood&diff=next&oldid=41277917 changed] from something similar to the current version to create the three section table. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
::::If possible, birthright likes detailed lists for their explicitness, and feels they ''are'' easier accessible sometimes. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 23:48, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

== nonsense - expl. m. focuses on '''not''' mining a lot of stone ==

Why is any one particular mining method better for increasing your artifact limit? All we care about is pure mass mined, right? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 01:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

: It's the quantity of revealed tiles that counts. [[User:Bartavelle|Bartavelle]] 07:59, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
::Yes, '''revealed'''. I both forgot and misread that and bow my head in shame --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 13:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

== Happiness ==
I've added a little remark in mood types about the happiness state of moody dwarves at the moment of the announcement. I had 7 different fortresses with at least 5 artifacts in each. All the time my possessed dwarves were "quite content", while fey and secretive were "happy" or even "ecstatic". Royal dining rooms ahoy!– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Insecticide|Insecticide]]
:I agree this seems to be the case. All my "quite content" dwares turn possessed. This is very likely also because we know you need to be unhappy for a fell mood. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 08:45, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
:Okay upon further research, you ''can'' get a fey mood when quite content. However, ''all'' of my possessed dwarves were quite content. More research would be nice :) [[User:Greep|Greep]] 08:14, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
::Toady is a mean little bitch. I pride myself in a 100% ecstatic fortress and yet i have the occasional posessed mood and yes, they are all quite content. This nagged me badly and so i did a bit save game juggling: All posessed dwarfs, 5 so far, were ecstatic ''before'' being posessed and ''content'' after. In 2 cases i could even reload a save just 2 days back and all 5 had the same thoughts displayed. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 22:49, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
:::Hmmm, yes I just noticed that tantrums work the same way. I had a dwarf get his only masterpiece defaced so he's at -1000. He throws a tanturm and magically goes from miserable to very unhappy. Then after the tantrum goes back to miserable. It's happened 4 times in a row with him [[User:Greep|Greep]] 02:53, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
::::It seems the same applies to secretive moods, will collect more data. It might be implemented this way to ensure a proper chance of the artifact to fail - along the lines of fey: hey lets build a great thingy versus secret and posessed: I NEED to do this --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 10:27, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

== Obok not playing by the rules? ==
"If two skills are at the same experience, the first listed for that dwarf will be the one affected by the mood."

Novice Mason, Novice Engraver - First listed was Mason, but he became legendary engraver. Does this mean he had more XP as engraver but was still novice or is the statement just wrong? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 02:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
:It depends on the exact amount of [[Experience|experience points]] they have in each skill. There's not really an in-game way to see this, but [[User:Bartavelle/DwarfCompanion|Dwarf Companion]] will show it.    —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 20:13, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:King

2009-08-06T16:34:40Z

Loganis:

Got the king tonight. Unsure of the trigger; had missed two prior dwarf caravans due to sieges. Had population 37 and fortress value about 1.3 million when he arrived. His fellow immigrants raised the population to 63 immediately afterward. My first wiki page, let me know what I did wrong :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:29, 15 November 2007 (EST)
:I had him arrive under similar conditions recently: Population of around 40, high overall fortress value(~6 million) and three past sieges.[[User:Killtheimpostor!|Killtheimpostor!]] 19:53, 15 November 2007 (EST)
::Have either of you reached adamantine? -- [[User:Zaratustra|Zaratustra]] 20:33, 15 November 2007 (EST)
:::I had only my 7 dwarves when i reached adamantine by sheer dumb luck, and then the king arrived with 22 immigrants. Adamantine has to have something to do with it. [[User:abattur|abattur]]
:::There was some discussion elsewhere, and apparently the 'King arrives dressed as a peasant' in previous versions meant you'd found adamantine but not met other criteria of having the king arrive. And yes, I had found adamantine. So once we figure out the criteria for a non-adamantine visit, we should redo and expand the page. And never demean the value of pure dumb luck! [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:23, 16 November 2007 (EST)

I never understood what the dressed as a peasent thing refers to. Is he not the king at first? Or does he simply arrive with poor clothing and then immediately get the best clothing from the fort? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 11:34, 16 November 2007 (EST)

:maybe he is trying to sneak into the fortress? --[[User:Fedaykin|Fedaykin]] 13:53, 16 November 2007 (EST)

::Maybe he's embarrassed to move to a fort that doesn't meet royal standards (as perceived by The People(TM)), but he knows it'll soon be filthy rich with all that adamantine? -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 14:46, 16 November 2007 (EST)

::: He's probably just coming when you hit adamantine because he wants to get his grubby little paws on it.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 19:59, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

I'm at 1.5M Created Wealth, 337k imported, 116k exported, 165 population, and 23,000 silver coins. The baroness has turned into the duchess, and I have a new noble: "The Incoming King". When I get details of him, it mentions how much archecture I have vs needed (Desired 10k, Current: 101k), Road Value (7.5k vs 280), and Offerings (5000 vs 0). Presumably the Offerings are to the Dwarven caravan. Road value seems easy to get up, each glass square is worth 40 bucks. [[User:KiTA|KiTA]] 21:50, 18 November 2007 (EST)

I'm at 317K created wealth, 283k imported, 61k exported, 146 population, no coins. We recently turned into a duchy and now have "The Incoming King" as well. He wants 15k architecture (we have 108k), 5k road (we have 1182), and 5k offerings (We have 0). Breakdown of created wealth: 9.6k weapons, 0 armor and garb, 45k furniture, 130k other objects, 111k architecture, 19k displayed, 9.9k held/worn. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:51, 20 November 2007 (EST)
:: is there a screen that displays the value of roads? --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 16:34, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
What happens when you get the king and abandon your fort? --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 03:35, 22 November 2007 (EST)
: Your fort shows up as the "Mountainhome" for the civ when you find it in adventure mode. When asking people of that civ about the capital, they say "There is no capital." --[[User:Rabek|Rabek]] 03:04, 1 February 2008 (EST)

Just to confirm how this works: Once you get promoted to a Duchy, you must meet the three requirements given by the Incoming King noble. Road value, Architecture value and Offerings (to dwarven caravans). The offering takes a while to get to the king, but once the requirements are met, you should get a king in the next wave of immigrants. --[[User:Starfisher|Starfisher]] 18:07, 12 December 2007 (EST)

So if, uh, totally hypothetically, my King went Stark Raving Mad due to his room not being up to snuff and died naked and thirsty, will I ever get another King? [[User:Viper1969|Viper1969]] 14:42, 17 January 2008 (EST)

:I had my king as well as everyone else die in a massive assault. I then proceeded to reclaim the fortress and on the third attempt I had wiped out all the invaders. I got a new king to arrive eventually (it was a queen this time). Unfortunately I don't know how to check if she is the old king's spouse, but my guess is that it's so. Perhaps noting is that both my king and later queen came dressed as peasants because of my adamantine findings. --[[User:Liqum|Liqum]] 03:20, 6 February 2009 (EST)

==Accompaning Nobles ==
Who arrives with the king other than the [[Advisor]]?
Who oth
: I did not get an advisor with my Queen. Although she came with the discovery of adamantine. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 08:17, 17 January 2008 (EST)
:: A consort, like most nobles... about four Royal guards, if I remember properly... and an assortment of peasants. Only peasants. I'm assuming they're all spouses of the guards/king/advisor/consort, but I'm too lazy to really look into that. [[User:Rabek|Rabek]] 03:02, 1 February 2008 (EST)

==Adamantine King==
(Moved from article page --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:56, 31 January 2008 (EST))
 
From my experience so far, he's not made a single demand what so ever (other than his room, etc). Admittedly it hasn't been that long (4th year of the fort, King was 1st immigrant), but I've had time to mine every tile of addy on the map that's safe to dig (and then a couple). Bonus? Bug? —Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] ([[User talk:Draco18s|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Draco18s|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

:I've noticed that my adamantine rulers are not as proficient with skills and stats as normal rulers. Can anyone confirm/deny this? --[[User:Liqum|Liqum]] 03:23, 6 February 2009 (EST)
::Okay, a weird thing just happened. My Queen suddenly just got all her stats maxed out and became very skilled in a lot of different areas. I have no idea when or how this happened. --[[User:Liqum|Liqum]] 04:26, 6 February 2009 (EST)
:::I was coming here to question whether the king comes with a spouse if he comes through mining adamantine. I've got an adamantine king coming soon, so maybe he'll bring one. If not, well, more testing... [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 03:51, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
::::He came without a spouse. However, turns out his spouse was dead. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 06:11, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== Do I want this guy? ==

im ALMOST at the requirements to get the king. But the nobles i have are already anoying enough, why do i want this king? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]]

:erg. *shudders at the grammar*
:AFAIK, the king serves no purpose other than to challenge you. So, no. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:39, 5 February 2008 (EST)

:Every times I get a king (adamantine king actually), the dwarven liaison won't come any longer.
:Quite anoying on fortresses relying on an external source of flux. --[[User:Yag|Yag]]

== King Vs Population Cap ==
I'm at my population cap (actually just over due to births). I've meet all the requirements for the Incoming King. Will he still come? [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 02:40, 6 April 2008 (EDT)
:He came with a few regular immigrants, several guards and a consort pushing my population past 210. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 07:26, 7 April 2008 (EDT)
::What pop did you have when it happened? I am at 219 and wondering if the king would show up... All reqs met. --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 19:57, 16 February 2009 (EST)
:::Nevermind the last one, the King did come after a season or two at 220 pop. --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 17:52, 21 February 2009 (EST)

== No King (or Queen rather) ==

I had been waiting for a King for a long time already, but I had finally filled all the requirements. So at last I get an announcment of his (well her) arrival. There's lot's of immigrants but the Queen is nowhere to be seen! Is this a bug of some sort or does she arrive seperately from the other immigrants? My population is 185 which is under the cap. I'm using version 28_181_39e.

I also had a wrestler stuck to the spot where he entered the map to. Could this affect somehow?

Oh there she is. But she doesn't move, and appears as Ruler/Queen and I can't interract with her. She appears like Town Liaisons for example. She appears as Friendly in the U(nit)-screen.

(40d) I note that sometimes when I get an immigrating military dwarf they get stuck at the tile on the edge of the map where they enter and prevent other immigrants from arriving. Stationing them or adding them to an existing squad seems to do the trick. It's possible once the dwarf's idle immigrant status goes away they'll stop standing there. [[User:Iucounu|Iucounu]] 16:43, 8 March 2009 (EDT)

== How long does it take for this guy to get here? ==

I was told that the king was incoming about 2-3 years ago in game time. It took me a long time to get enough roads to be built, but about a year or so ago, I finished. The field for the incoming king says all of the qualifications are in. And... it's been a year. There has been an immigration and a "no one dared brave your fort" immigration message, but no king. How long does he wait to show up after that initial message? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 10:29, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
: I still don't know how long it takes, but he has arrived. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 21:00, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

==Update to 40d==
I got the adamantine king in my current game. He came with no consort but doesn't appear to have one at all in the relationship screen, so no information there. Have not seen an advisor and do not know if one will come later when I meet the normal requirements or whatnot.

He has issued no mandates and made no demands except for his standard room/furnishing requirements.

I should note it also took him 3 years to arrive from when I first struck adamantine, but I don't know if that's because reporting back to the civilization takes longer when your civ isn't sending you a liaison in the first place.

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:24, 10 December 2008 (EST)

==Turning off the King==
Is there a simple way to disable the arrival of the king? While I like my current fortress, I don't see a place with no iron, no magma, and no tower-caps becoming The Mountainhome. I see us as an outpost whose primary purpose is to fight goblins and produce marble things.– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]]

:Provided you don't have adamantine, all you have to do is not build roads worth a total of 5000☼ and the "Incoming King" will never income.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 10:20, 13 December 2008 (EST)

==Relationships and deities.==
Got the Queen tonight for a different fortress than the one above (decided I needed magma, settled in the side of a volcano, and managed to find adamantine.)I was looking over her relationships and noticed she has ten children, and also has her grandparents, aunts and uncles, and a dozen cousins. I was also interested to note she worships two deities, something I've never seen in any other dwarf.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 04:20, 3 January 2009 (EST)

==Justice==
My Queen, mentioned above, went on a tantrum due to the mayor having an artefact cabinet raising her room to "Royal". This led to her throwing boulders, breaking a stone table, and starting a fistfight. The justice system has ignored this, and it doesn't look like the queen will be jailed for it.
: My Duke threw a similar hissy-fit recently. I locked him in the walled garden to ponder his crimes... and when he got thirsty, I pumped a few thousand gallons of moat-water over the wall. Problem solved.

== Old age ==

I got my queen about a year ago and I suddenly noticed I hadnt seen her in a while.
Turns out she died of old age some time ago and is now resting in her tomb.

This sort of sucks seeing as I just got her and theres no replacement.
Would be nice if her closest family came along and one of her children could take the throne.--[[User:Katieness|Katieness]] 20:44, 6 February 2009 (EST)

==Still trading with previous mountainhome==

I got my queen and I still receive trades from the dwarfs. Is this a bug? I did notice that there wasn't a liaison with them this time. 40d --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 09:10, 23 February 2009 (EST)
:I think it's probably deliberate. The new mountainhome would certainly be trading with ''somebody'' (getting stuff from the provinces, as it were), and the old mountainhome would be the next-biggest city of that civ. So it makes sense that the game would be made to do that. The liason bit, I have no idea though. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:31, 23 February 2009 (EST)
 I added a verify tag to the statement that the "old" mountain home will no longer trade with you. I do trade with the previous mountain home, but to date (5 game years) I don't get a liason so I can not request what they bring. They have brought stuff almost like the elves, lots of fabric.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 16:37, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

==Civilisation with no king==
On the embark screen, I selected a civilisation that actually has no monarch (on the {{K|c}} screen, the highest-ranked noble is a Mayor). Will I still get a king if the Mountainhome doesn't have one to provide? [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 09:24, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

:Having struck Adamantine, no king has materialised. I think it's safe to assume than none is forthcoming. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 08:34, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

== Roads ==
When i became duchy my road value was instantly at 3000 (of 7500 demanded) for 2 short road pieces i made for the traders. Since then i improved substantially (like 3 times) on that road, but the value..trickles only a bit (3354 now).

What else does count into roads? What roads should i build best? --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 00:31, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

:I am pretty sure only roads count. I never have had the problem you are describing. You can make single tile roads of stone, or use blocks, or even use a really expensive (say [[platinum]]) [[block]]s to make roads. Don't worry, you can always deconstruct them later. You might also be seeing the delay. Remember, trade values only go up once they have been reported. I'm not sure if the roads are the same way. Meaning, a diplomat or something has to come and leave before the values change. I don't have DF in front of me, but it would be easy to check and see if the value changed right away or if it was delayed.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 01:27, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
::Road value increases the instant construction on the road is completed. If you've managed to capture a dragon, making its fat into soap and using said soap to build a few tiles of road will probably do the trick very quickly. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 14:01, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

== elf king?! ==

Hi, I am going to add to the article but first I will describe what happened in my game.
For some reason (presumably war?) my civ's nobles are elves.
My king arrived and he is an Elf King. His advisor is an Elf Advisor. They show up on the unit list as "Friendly" but are hanging out at the edge of the map. The do not show up in my nobles list and I cannot assign rooms to them or anything like that. Anyway, what does this all mean?
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 11:44, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
:You probably edited some raws that changed some stuff that made the normal kind appear as an Elf King. If I remember correctly, Elves do not have kings, but druids--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 07:37, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Siege

2009-08-06T16:16:34Z

Loganis: /* Megabeast Trigger */

40d Talk:Adamantine

2009-08-05T04:13:01Z

Loganis: /* Where to find it */

Has anyone found any yet?

:I've heard so, yes. I forget which talk page it was on.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 22:52, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

::It isn't anywhere on the wiki, if a search for "adamantine" would show it. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:54, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
::Cancel that. You can't find it by searching for "adamantine" but "addy" gave me [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000793&p=3 this forum thread]. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:56, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== Where to find it ==

http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001176

In the above thread, Toady mentions the pits (and therefore adamantium) are located on every map tile which is displayed as a mountain. He then notes that it might only place them on mountain squares in the local map as well, but that he wasn't sure. So, that detail needs verification. Also, from testing out about a dozen volcano tiles (using reveal.exe) I found adamantine and the pits on every one. So, I've assumed that volcano tiles count as mountains for pit placement. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 22:58, 5 November 2007 (EST)

This seems to be generally true, but not absolutely true. I found a volcano in a desert on a completely flat map, and there was no adamant. Perhaps there is a depth requirement. --[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]]

:Was this on an actual volcano tile, or just an adjacent tile with a magma vent? --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 02:11, 19 November 2007 (EST)

::It was on an actual volcano tile. I probably can find it this evening if you'd like me to snag the seed so you can see for yourself. --[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]] 15:36, 19 November 2007 (EST)

IS there any information on depth in relation to finding deposits, or is it random? --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 13:11, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
:There is ''always'' a number of randomizing factors involved in almost any DF function, and often many are inter-related. With this, it has a tag that is supposed to put it "deep" - however, with erosion, some players have found it easily visible in a chasm, or claimed to (rarely) find it exposed on the surface - put what weight you want in that. But, yes, it's usually(?) only found "deep"... ish... --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 17:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

:: Would an advisable search pattern for Adamantine be from the bottom up then? --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 04:13, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

== Old info ==

I also ported over parts of the old adamantine info which seemed to still be correct for this version, and trimmed out the bits which no longer seemed to be true. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 22:58, 5 November 2007 (EST)
:There now only seems to be one labor directly related to adamantine, and that is Strand Extraction. Presumably weaving, smelting to wafers, and forging with the wafers now use the relevant "normal" skills but perhaps with a penalty to speed. I have not yet found adamantine, so if anybody has succeeded in analyzing its use, please correct the information in the wiki! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 00:56, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Okay, since I've been playing around with adamatine in 33a and 33b for a little while now, I've edited the page a fair bit. In particular, I've eliminated the Old Info section, wrapping that into the main body where it's correct, and eliminating it where it's not. I further added notes about treating the ore as a stone, since the value is a little different (I've got an Adamantine Ashery due to the ore not being an economic stone in 33a). I mentioned the apparent relationship between discovering adamantine and the King arriving. I removed the "ver" tag and replaced it with normal text, since it was forcing the page into the "outdated info" category, and I think we're now accurate to 33b. The only thing we still need to check is whether magma version of shops are still needed to handle the processing. (A magma clothier's shop... hmmm). [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:02, 19 November 2007 (EST)
::Since apparently someone has verified that magma smelters are not needed to make wafers, can we take this to be a concession from Toady due to magma not being available in all mountain tiles that adamantine is? --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:38, 19 December 2007 (EST)

== Demon pit image ==

I believe that's just a magma vent, which may or may not contain adamantine, though there's bound to be some somewhere in a mountain range. --[[User:Maximus|Maximus]], 20 November 2007

:I moved the above comment from the edit summary[http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Adamantine&diff=10287&oldid=10117]. It is an example of where adamantine can be found, and where one person found it. I think it's useful on this article, so I'll put it back with a caption explaining it's an example. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:23, 21 November 2007 (EST)

::Well, I'm not going to nix your edit, I'll leave that decision up to you or others. But I have to say I don't really see that image as being remotely useful without a lot more context than 'this is an example'. What exactly is it an example of? What information is actually being provided? I can't really see how the image generates anything except confusion because it happens to be a magma square. --[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]] 17:09, 21 November 2007 (EST)

::The image doesnt seem helpful as is. Perhaps with a world seed and a little more explanation [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:34, 21 November 2007 (EST)

::Unless a demon pit can always be found to the east of a magma tile, the image is misleading. The text in the Location section is more accurate, though it needs some more verifying and fleshing out.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:46, 21 November 2007 (EST)

:::All good points. I removed the image again. Maybe we can get a more helpful image at some point. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:30, 23 November 2007 (EST)

== Standardized spelling ==

I just want to point out, despite it being definitively spelled [[Adamantine]] consistently in Dwarf Fortress, people still will spell it "adamantium" or "adamantite," presumably due to previous experience with Marvel Comics or World of Warcraft, respectively. (At least those are the places where ''I've'' seen those alternative spellings.) --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 14:15, 23 November 2007 (EST)

== Strands and loom ==
Are adamantine strands automatically processed at loom, if 'auto weave thread into cloth' option is on? I think, it's important to know. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:29, 16 January 2008 (EST)
:They are not. There is anew Loom job, "a: Weave Metal Cloth" --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 00:11, 17 January 2008 (EST)

==Verification==
Verify tag was questioning whether Adamantine appears more often on mountain tilesets than on others. Definately, in a ratio of 100:1 or more. Confirmed using the regional prospector.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 01:23, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

== Adamantine bolts ==

In the article, it says that everything made out of adamantine uses 3 wafers in the place of one bar. This is usually correct, but in the case of making bolts, I'm pretty sure you just need one wafer to make a stack of 25 bolts. It might work for coins and other stacked things as well, I'm not sure. Can someone confirm this? --[[User:Obsidian|Obsidian]] 15:37, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

I'm doing alot of experiments with Adamantine, and yes, 1 wafer = a stack of 25 Bolts.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 02:17, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

== merge? ==
I was wondering, should this be merged with raw adamantine? they both have extremely similar facts, and there are little differences. I don't know how to do this, and I think that some people might object, so any thoughts on this, go here. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:29, 3 October 2008 (EDT)
:Vote: '''No merge.''' The pages are seperate because [[Adamantine]] refers to the processed metal and [[Raw adamantine]] refers to the ore. It's basically the standard. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:09, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

== The ominous timer ==

...'''Too Deep'''. What, exactly, does it mean? I've heard it in some places, but this quote from Boatmurdered got me wondering for a while:
In my knowledge the Too Deep timer starts if you mine somewhere between 10-99 adamantium /.../
(Quote source: Guerilla Medic)

So, this ominous sounding thing, along with the mention (above) of mining adamantine resulting in an 'invariable game over' has gotten me quite curious.

Just what happens? What are the mechanics, how is it triggered, and most importantly--

''How does the game end?'' ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 22:14, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

:This is from the 2D version. (and it's incorrect, the timer is started based on a random roll that gets a higher chance the more Ad you've mined) Maybe we should have a page about the 2D version and all the major ways it's different from the current version. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 22:43, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

::I am aware of that; so is the magma river which I so dearly wish I was there to see. But I don't really want to use the 2D version because of all the bugs and everything.

::A few searches (using Google) said that the timer's purpose was to eventually lead to that final game over. So why's it gone and all? Shouldn't it be an option?

::And if Toady ever reads this, I think a whole lot of features from the 2D version should be brought back, hopefully in a toggleable manner (e.g. magma river--I want to pull a Boatmurdered, and a '''river of magma''' sounds pretty awesome in itself); I feel this would be great for the oldbies as well as midbies, and the newbies would eventually tromp on over and discover a few options that made the game more fun for them.

::Oh, and one last thing: Random, that's a great idea. I'd help, but I've never so much as downloaded the 2D version. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 18:37, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Well, I'll help get it started, by describing the differences I remember. Some important changes came post-3D, too, but I stopped playing DF for most of 2008, so I didn't notice what changed when.

:::*Z-levels (the biggie). Among other things, channels were no impediment unless they were filled with fluid. There was no fluid "pressure"; fluids were infinite, and if a floodgate was destroyed or otherwise unclosable, the resulting flood could easily destroy your entire fort. Being infinite, it also had no "depth" (x/7).
:::*The chasm would contain primarily antmen, ratmen, or batmen, and 5-15 of them would spontaneously crawl out of it on a fairly regular basis until you poured enough magma in there to "kill" the chasm. Frogmen, snakemen, or lizardmen would also show up spontaneously along the banks of the river (and also crawl out of wells), though much less often. The underground river would flood once each spring, summer, and fall (in the form of waves sweeping out up to 20 tiles from its banks), and the floods would tend to sweep dwarves into the river, who would almost always drown. Items swept into the river would permanently disappear.
:::*Terrain layout -- previously there was just an "outside", with a river zig-zagging north to south (except in scorching/freezing climates), a nearly flat cliff face, and cave river, chasm, magma river and demon pits at fairly regular distances eastward from the cliff face, that were present in every fortress. Behind the pits, forming the eastern edge of the map, was an adamantine-lined impassable chasm (containing no creatures -- at least, none you ever saw). Oh, and the cave river was always lined with limestone and the magma river was always lined with obsidian. Gold, platinum, hematite, and coal could be found in any mountain, though always to the east of the chasm. Gem types were also tied to depth. There were no geographic-style stone layers, and there were only a handful of different types of stone, which were either "light" (limestone, moonstone, or marble), "dark" (obsidian, jet, or onyx), or just "stone". Limestone was the only usable flux, and coal was coal (no lignite or bituminous, and it always produced 2 bars from smelting).
:::*Mining even a little bit of adamantine set into motion an eventual and unavoidable end-of-game ("Too deep"). Mining a lot of adamantine would cause it to happen at the start of the next season.
:::*Starting location choices -- Previously there were only a few dozen fixed locations on each map you could choose, all with the same layout and size; the only thing that varied was biome (climate, creatures, trees, and shrubs), and each location had only one biome. (Accessibility by different civilizations also varied depending on starting location -- this is perhaps little changed in the current version.) Now you can start just about anywhere on the world map, with a variable-size fortress map, which can span several different adjacent biomes and terrains.
:::*Cave-ins would happen pretty much automatically if you mined out a 7x7 area or larger without leaving an unmined natural column in place (or built a pillar).
:::*Choice of starting goods was very limited. You couldn't bring an anvil (one would automatically be brought in the first summer by a metalsmith). Starting points were very tight... something like a quarter of what they are now.
:::*Trader wagon access required an actual 3-wide road (not just a clear path) stretching from the western edge of the map to the depot (which had to be near the cliff face or inside the fort).
:::*You couldn't build traps or farms outdoors. You could build bridges outdoors but not make them raisable/retractable.
:::*You couldn't build/rebuild walls or any of the other [[constructions]].
:::*Activity zones, including dumps, were introduced with the 3D version.
:::*Sand was always available, from the banks of the indoor or outdoor river.
:::*Machines (gears, pumps, windmills, etc.) did not exist. There was a "mill" workshop that had to be built on one of the rivers.
:::*Nobles changed a lot. There used to be "guildmasters" corresponding to different professions (farming, mining, masonry, etc.). The manager was your first noble, who arrived after hitting 20 dwarves. There was no "trader" noble or trade skills; you could trade at any point after the caravan fully unloaded. You couldn't do workshop profiles until the manager arrived and couldn't use the stocks screen until the bookkeeper arrived, which would start the [[dwarven economy]]. The mayor, manager, trade minister, and treasurer were all different, full-time nobles, and the baron/count/duke (and their consorts) were all separate as well. Add to this the guildmasters and "Order of the <weapon>" nobles and you could easily have 30 nobles in your fort.
:::*Dwarves who created artifacts would carry those artifacts non-stop for the next several years.
:::*Mining would leave behind stones or gems 50% of the time, regardless of miner skill. Ore would be left behind 100% of the time by legendary miners, less often for lower skill. All mining byproducts now follow the "ore" formula; up to 100% of the time, dependent on skill.
:::*Encumbrance changed at some point (post-3D?). The Γ unit was made 1/10th its former weight, and much greater variation in material weights was introduced.
:::*Custom stockpiles were introduced before the 3D version -- this was probably the most revolutionary change introduced during the 2D era. Well, no, fire was probably bigger... and so buggy when it was first introduced you were best off turning it off. I believe temperature was introduced at the same time, which was also pretty buggy.
:::That's all I can remember for now.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:07, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

:Based on the boatmurdered screenshots, it appears that discovery of the chasm/cave river depended on line-of-sight (i.e. the whole thing wouldn't appear all at once the moment you breached it) [[User:Random832|Random832]] 01:51, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

::That's correct.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:57, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

:I think artifacts no longer being held on to by dwarves who made them was post-3D, I remember reading an old post in a penny arcade forum on their 3D succession game. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 01:54, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

:It's very sad that I've learned most of what I know about this from Boatmurdered.

:So, wouldn't it be good, then, if things like the magma river (with the obsidian lining working as it does now) were brought back? Also, the floods would be great as a toggleable option (only) in my opinion; heck, have it depend upon where you've settled, too. Like a possible Nile setup, if the conditions are similar. So you'd have a '''predictable''' flood which'd make muddy soil and all, maybe fertilize it (if there's a difference, and if it does any good as of yet). A modified, toggleable cave-in system would be nice, too; I don't like how the tiles just support themselves. (You can build a huge pier leading straight into the ocean, then drop a building into it, or make an aquaduct in the same manner to make lava and water create obsidian to build into or whatever...underwater base, done.) Maybe as a 'new player' option.

:Also, could you explain ''exactly'' what the "'''Too Deep'''" timer did when it finished counting down? Was some kind of animation displayed, and if so, what did it show? Or what did it do to end the game? Etcetera... If it's just one screen, screenshots would be good too. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 03:25, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

::This reminds me; daemons need a ''serious'' difficulty boost. Sure, they'll simply ''destroy'' the random new player who stumbles across them, but then again, so will [[carp]]. So I propose that somebody make the daemons absolute rape machines; the first (all-'round) daemon to spawn should be essentially ten times as strong as the daemons that spawn right afterwards or something to that effect. Spirits of fire could be given dragon-level breath, and all daemons would get super fire resistance.

::Among other things, such as [DAMBLOCK] boosts, more demons, etcetera. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 18:02, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/images/3/3c/Adamantite_game_over.PNG

I remember Toady saying somewhere that he wanted to make cave-ins as much of a challenge as in the 2D versions, but there may be game-slowdown issues. In a recent dev_now he talked about making the chasm civilization more dynamic again (not just a bunch of monsters that are gone once killed).

Balancing the difficulty of the demons is hard, since you either know how to fight them and have a long time to prepare, or you don't, and you'll get massacred. But if you want Toady to hear any of these things, say them on the forums -- he doesn't hang around the wiki.

(Some) players did indeed use the river flooding for Nile-style farming in the 2D version.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:53, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

:Interesting. Basically, though, what I'm trying to aim for is to make daemons like they were when one went Too Deep; but without a game-over screen. So you're probably going to be absolutely ''destroyed'', but you just ''might'' have a chance if you're extremely lucky.

:It'd make things easier if we had more elemental attacks; but that makes it start sounding like Pokemon after a while. But if we had, say, 'holy' weapons, then they could be made to be the only things that would do squat against daemons. Maybe the only holy weapons would be artifacts; in fact, that sounds like a great idea to me, because that means it's a lot harder to 'cheat' the system to get the weapons you'd need early.

:Also, wow, this talk section has gotten simply massive. Never thought such a large discussion would be sparked.... ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 21:59, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

::Those are some interesting ideas, though, again, Toady's the one that needs to hear them. I've copied my 2D vs. 3D list into an actual article, and expanded its purpose: [[History of Dwarf Fortress]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:22, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::: And what happened if, after the "Too deep" game over, you tried to explore the fortress in Adventurer mode ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 04:38, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::::You would find a single adjectiveless "Demon" in it, of slightly larger size than the pit demons. All raw adamantine left in the fort would supposedly turn into silver. I never tried it myself.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:35, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::::: Oh wow. That sure was a nice, intriguing game over. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 18:29, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

==Adamantine Strand Stockpiling==
So, Adamantine strands are apparently placed in cloth stockpiles, as claimed, but there doesn't seem to be any way to turn adamantine *off* for cloth stockpiles, as adamatine strands do not appear in the cloth stockpile item types options (your options under cloth are: thread(silk), thread(plant), cloth(silk), and cloth(plant)). Furthermore, all cloth apparently counts as non-plant/animal, because deselecting allow plant/animal in additional options doesn't prevent non-adamantine cloth/thread from being placed in the stockpile (and regular cloth is removed from stockpiles for which you deselect 'allow non-plant/animal'). Basically, there is no way to tell your cloth stockpiles to only accept adamantine strands, which contradicts elements of this and related pages. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:38, 25 November 2008 (EST)
:As in the article, having a Stockpile set to take from all other cloth stockpiles, but set to accept no "known" types of cloth, works. Incidentally a dyer has just dyed some Adamantine strands blue with Dimple dye. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 13:47, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

==A Little Unclear==
How many adamantium strands are produced from one raw adamantium? [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 12:20, 17 January 2009 (EST)
:One. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:04, 18 January 2009 (EST)

==Adamantine==
Adamantine is used in several mythologies to bind some sort of great evil. This is relevant to our interests.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:42, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

== Adamantine at gobbo fortresses? ==

Wondering if it's possible or not. Any help on this would be great! [[User:Pariah|Pariah]] 03:47, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Wound

2009-08-04T14:06:18Z

Loganis: /* Blind dwarf suffers nightmares of constant attack */

==.33c bug==
My miner had a broken arm and was "resting" even though all he did was move back and forth on the screen and submit to starvation and dehydration. I set a dwarf to Health Care only, had buckets to spare, and nothing was done to care for the dwarf. As far as I'm concerned, in v.33c. Check out the pic below and the [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-184-restlesswoundedminer movie] I have.

[[Image:Injury.png | none | frame | 500px | Injured dwarf spam.]]
[[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 18:31, 24 November 2007 (EST)

Happened to me too, also v.33c [[User:Klada|Klada]] 23:49, 1 December 2007 (EST)

:This bug has been fixed --[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 23:50, 1 December 2007 (EST)

same thing is happening to me so i dont think it has... [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 12:54, 7 December 2007 (EST)

:Actually it has, as of 33d. You may need to download a new version. [[User:Klada|Klada]] 13:17, 7 December 2007 (EST)

Seizures maybe?----

== Priority of [[health care]] task ==

I think the game is a bit broken in that I can have a dwarf set with [[health care]] (I know it's a redlink) as their only active task, and rather than bring food to a dwarf who seems to only be moderately injured, but is now about to die from starvation - even though there is a stockpile of prepared meals 6 tiles away, and the other dwarves are resting in the same barracks![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:56, 12 February 2008 (EST)

I had a miner who was wounded in a mine collapse lie where he fell for a long time before someone came to pick him up, even after prioritizing that a single peasant would do nothing but Health Care. I had even made sure that the Health Care dwarf had "likes doing stuff for others" in his profile/thoughts. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 15:40, 25 March 2009 (EST)

== Brown Wounds ==

my legendary miner will not heal his brown wounds he must have been resting for a year now. What should I do? --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 06:54, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

:Well, have you seen where his injury is? It could be a nervous injury, which never heals (see the wound article, its really sad).

== healing speed ==
it seems that in the newest version(.38c) wounds heal at incredible speed - I watched my woodcutter fight batmen and get lightly wounded, was relieved that it was nothing worse, but when I checked back on him he was uninjured. So when my miner took on a wolf I kept a very close eye on him, and indeed he suffered moderate wounds and got a "rest" job, but the wound healed to lightly wounded before he even got back into the fortress and was gone by the time he reached his bed.--[[User:Syndic|Syndic]] 00:30, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
: chances are they have a (very) high toughness? - this will cause exactly what you describe. Send a peasant recruit into battle and you will see the difference ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 07:20, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
::Given that they were miners and woodcutters, they would become tough before they become even [[proficient]] in their trade. As mentioned by Koltom and indeed in the article, toughness has a huge effect both on the impact of being wounded (ie tough dwarves carry on regardless) AND on the rate of healing (they get better before they make it to their bed to rest).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:24, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
: I only had this once when I started a fortress in a desert without any water resources. Maybe this is a hack to prevent dwarves from dying from thirst? [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 05:20, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

I've noticed something similar to this in .40c as well. One of my miners in a new fortress, who was at best merely 'tough' sustained a red injury to his hip which had completely disappeared a few minutes later. The only unusual thing I did was draft all seven dwarves into the army first and then make them civilians after the skeletal goat was dead. I don't think the miner had even made his way to a bed to rest before this miraculous healing.[[User:Extar|Extar]] 16:06, 25 August 2008 (EDT)
: I believe every season there is a chance of a red wound healing. Perhaps he had extraordinarily high toughness and you got lucky? --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 19:53, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

(a non tough dwarf healed yellow in 2 days before even sitting in his rest bed -
we need to revisit the info here) [[ User:Höhlenschreck]]

Did a season change in those 2 days? Does this actually contradict the model we currently have?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 12:48, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:No. 
:Not entirely. 
:Just pointing out that healing may have become faster or different. --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 16:24, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

== Nervous system damage ==

I have a guard with minor neck and brain injuries, so he won't spar any more. However, he is a Talented Hammerdwarf, Skilled Armor User, and Proficient Shield User (only Novice Wrestler), so I reallocated him to use a crossbow and he does infact shoot at the archery range. This could be a good way to improve troops and get Marksdwarves that might be vaguely effective in melee combat should it come to that. He's also already Mighty, Very Agile, and Tough.

I'm thinking of adding the following to the Healing section of this page, at the end of the paragraph starting with "Wounds to the nervous system...":

"A hammerdwarf with light injuries to the nervous system may no longer spar, but will train as a Marksdwarf if allocated to use a crossbow. This can be useful given that a Marksdwarf entering melee combat uses the hammerdwarf skill to bash enemies with their crossbow. They hopefully would have also trained as Wrestlers, Armor Users, and Shield Users which will help their survival rate."

Thoughts? --[[User:TimE|TimE]]

:Seems a bit too niche to be in the article as general advice. Perhaps a generality made from that idea would be appropriate however. something like "dwarves with nervous injuries too severe to be a melee fighter may still be valulable as a Marksdwarf." --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:59, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

:: I think this applies to dwarves with ''any'' nervous injuries. I like the concise version though, I'll add that. --[[User:TimE|TimE]] 00:56, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

== Color of Wounds ==
I think that lightly wounded and lopped off are too close of a color. The lopped off color should be pink, a nice bright color with eye attracting color. This way I can tell whether or not to pay attention to that individual.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 19:44, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:I agree with you on that, try making a topic in the forums about it. Toady might change it.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 21:18, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

== Spleen, kidney etc. ==

What about spleen, liver, kidneys etc ? Do they belong to "guts" ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 10:19, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== New version and light wounds ==

The new version and its possibility for messed up temps means that all organs can now be in all states of wounded-ness. That means you can get lightly wounded hearts and guts and lungs... etc.

Note that this is due to extreme frostbite, not heat.

[[User:Logical2u|Logical2u]] 23:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

I've got a war dog with lightly-wounded right lung, left lung, and heart. From combat (with a kobold thief), not from temperature exposure. -[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 19:57, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

== wounded but not resting ==

I have a dwarf who has a yellow head wound and a red upper leg wound. In the {{k|u}} screen he shows as '''No job''', on his wound status screek ({{k|v}}{{k|w}}) he is unconscious, hungry, dehydrated and drowsy.

If he is unconscious then he is not resting. I take it he is not going to trigger any health care jobs: so does this mean he is doomed?
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:29, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:He ended up dying. It seemed inevitable given that becoming unconscious seems to cancel resting.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:28, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
:I have a guard who's doing the same. Red lung wound and he's still trying to make his rounds as a guard. On the other hand, his toughness seems to be high enough that he's not dying from it... He rested when he was initially wounded (sparring) but got up because he was thirsty. He fell unconscious once in the process, but managed to slake his thirst. And then got up and grabbed his equipment. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 21:27, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
::FWIW, this guard lasted two more years limping along with a red lung until he finally died making a suicidal charge during a goblin siege. Îton Koganûker earned himself his own little decorated burial niche for his hardheaded service. Incidentally, I looked back at him and he actually had not toughness mods, so a regular dwarf survived three years with a red lung and might have survived longer if not for the charge. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:43, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
:::I have an ex-guard with a red lung injury. He's been that way for about 4 years so is it possible that lungs can't heal? At first he passed out a lot from being winded but after training him up as an engraver to improve his toughness he's able to go about a normal dwarven life. I've had a lot of odd injuries in this fortress; two guys lost both eyes somehow. One of them, a champion, seemed unperturbed by this and went on with his job for about a year until a goblin bowman took him out with a lucky shot. The other was a hunter and spammed up the announcements with "cancelled job: unconcious". He had to be... disposed of. Later, after accidentally releasing a caged titan in my entrance hall, my bone carver got a mangled stomach and lower body. I was preparing for him to die but amazingly he recovered his stomach in a season but it took him a lot longer to heal his other injury. Finally, one of my champions managed to break his lower back while sparring. I've provided him with a nice hospital where he can be looked after for the rest of his days but I fear one day he'll go beserk due to loneliness and boredom. --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 19:24, 11 February 2009 (EST)

This is caused by some problem with the bed they are placed on. Removing the bed they are on seems to fix the problem for me everytime it happens. --[[User:Engy|Engy]] 22:46, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== broken leg ==

can a dwarf with a broken leg still get around to work?
:Unfortunately, no. Anything worse then moderately wounded causes the dwarf to go sleep it off until its healed. However, ''eventually'' it will heal up and he can go back to work. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 02:32, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

I have 3 dwarves who are very injured, and seem to be refusing to move, I deactivated their squad status, but none are unconcious, and none of the dwarves at ALL are helping them for some reason, they just keep walking over them, ignoring them.

I have a royal guard with a similar problem. Was wondering if it would ever heal, but I'm starting to think after more than two years that lung injuries also never heal. Mine has at least one level of toughness, though, and the only affect is that he walks slightly slower and flashes the wounded signal at me.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 08:44, 13 December 2008 (EST)

I had a dwarf with a broken leg fall into a strange mood. He got up off his sickbed, limped to a workshop, claimed it, etc. -- all at a fraction of normal dwarf walking speed. He finished the artifact, then went back to his sickbed to finish healing. -[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 19:55, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

== Broken brain? ==

I just got a kobold trapped in my hall of spiky death, and on its wound list was a yellow(broken) brain. I suppose that means it's going to die very soon, but it seems to be fine to me... --[[User:Cypress|Cypress]] 18:21, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

:It's a kobold. You missed all its vital spots. --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 23:53, 10 December 2008 (EST)

== Blind dwarf suffers nightmares of constant attack ==
I have a dwarf with a lopped off left eye and right eye (and throat? how's he still suffering??) that is convinced that he's still under attack.
He's litterally spamming with over 1000 messages that he's canceling rest: interrupted by goblin crossbowman. In the 200-300 message range it was amusing. At this point, I'm only hoping that he shuts up when another dwarf drags him off to a bed for some rest. [[User:AmisiBastet|AmisiBastet]] 14:29, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
:Put him out of his misery. In style. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:43, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
::How? The last of the goblin ambushes for that season shut him up for me. But I don't know how to kill off one of my own dwarves. Well... not intentionally anyway. Especially when he's so busy being unconsious that he's constantly interrupting his rest due to the memory of being shot at by a goblin. I think he got up to about 3000 messages. All his minor wounds healed up too. His head was still mangled (red) with his eyes & throat lopped off (grey). Well, until the goblin finished him off anyway. [[User:AmisiBastet|AmisiBastet]] 22:50, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
:::For future reference, you can kill one of your dwarves off by dropping a constructed floor on him. Thus, it makes some sense to make bedrooms with a way to drop floor tiles on the beds. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:32, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Two words: Lava. Failing that, I usually went with GreyMaria's method and just tunnel out over the head of the wounded dwarf, and built/demolished floors atop him until dead. Too bad you can't build on bridges...I'd have an infirmary kept niiice and warm by a lava pit. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 00:47, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
:::::LOL I wish! Poor guy collapsed above ground, about 7 steps away from the entrance to the fortress. And as for dealing with any other dwarves... I've found the lava, but they're pretty stubborn about not wanting to dig anywhere near it anymore. These bunch also seem to be only seasonal-miners too. They practically refuse to dig durring the winter & are reluctant to dig in the fall. Which leaves me to spring & summer for any fortress improvements that don't involve construction or engraving. They like farming and they like engraving. Canceling those tasks doesn't even seem to encourage them to dig. They'd rather sit around with no job than go dig out rooms near the lava. Boy, ya loose 1 dwarf to a random fire-man and the dig designations never get worked on! [[User:AmisiBastet|AmisiBastet]] 00:46, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
::::::The simplest method I've found for silencing Dwarves (Usually to put them out of their misery) is to have the a room of hospital beds connected to a pump with a nearby water source (aquifer or brook, usually). In the event that a dwarf has permanently debilitating wounds, you can simply flood the room. Even a normal door will hold back 7/7 tiles of water, so all you have to do is lock them in to make sure no other dwarves decide to open it. [[User:Xennith|Xennith]] 10:45 AM, 2 March 2009 (PST)
: As fun as it is to off wounded dwarves [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25815.0 this thread on the message board] alleges that destroying the bed may end the message spam. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 17:41, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
:: Thanks for the link. I'd post there but for some odd reason my browsers won't let me register on that forum. I keep getting redirected back to the index. I can't even read the help on registering because that also redirects me back to the index. Regardless, you are correct that in my case the dwarf had not reached a bed. I think in my case it was that the goblin crossbowman that had attacked that dwarf, had later fallen into a cage trap and hadn't been killed (or left the map) yet. I've a bit of a backlog on goblins waiting to use my drowning rooms.
::: to off yer dwarf, you can put a door on their bedroom and lock em in when they sleep--[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 14:06, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

==Animal Wounds==
How fast can animals (e.g. leopards) heal wounds? Because I have a leopard which has minor injuries on the brain, heart, lungs and guts, and I want to use it to guard my fort (i feel like im gonna be sieged soon).--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 08:34, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
:I'm fairly certain animals can only be healed via the animal caretaker labor. I had a cat with a mangled leg for 3 years before it stumbled into a weapon trap full of looted pikes. If the creature isn't assigned to anyone, the dwarf that trained the leopard can caretake it. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:44, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

:I've never studied the mechanics of animal caretaking, but I've gotten the impression that it's a "free" task -- any time your caretaker crosses paths with a wounded animal, the animal has a chance to get better. Try turning on caretaking on all your dwarves. The leopard might need to be uncaged in order for the caretaking to take place.

:But a guardian leopard alone is not going to be enough against a siege. For that, you want at least a dozen wardogs, or a set of traps at least six deep at all entrances (ten deep if they're "mere" stone traps), or some decent marksdwarves -- five or more is best, because at just the wrong moment, half of them will wander off to drink or sleep (or reload). A single champion with top-quality armor and weapon and very high shield user, armor user, and wrestling skills can potentially take out a whole squad by him or herself, but that takes about two or three years worth of sparring (with another champion) and you better hope they don't get spinal injuries or they'll stop training altogether.

:Barring that, use dogs if you got 'em, traps if you don't. And build traps anyway. You can secure a fortress in a couple of months using a couple of mechanics. And you won't get hit by an actual goblin siege until you have 80 dwarves, supposedly, though "ambushes" of about 8 goblins can come much sooner.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:29, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

:Well, I did get sieged, but my army decimated the ugly gobbos before they could even come close (theres a load of blood near the norhern edge now) so the leopard was of no use. Talking of ward dogs, being an idiot, I went and made most of my dogs available for pets before I realised that pets cant be trained. Luckily a pair of stray puppies grew up a day before the siege but the two war dogs which i trained were too slow and the battle was over before they reached. About the animal caretaker, I do have one but he isn't really doing anything about the leopard (and a fox which i also bought from the elves, also with same injuries) --[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 23:51, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
::I'm fairly certain from my experiences that animal caretaking only applies to animals that 'belong' to the caretaker. The only dwarf with any skill in caretaking I've had has been my dungeon master because he has trained over a dozen wardogs that haven't been assigned elsewhere yet. Meanwhile my champions have wardogs and cats that have been mangled for years. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:48, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I've seen animals on chains healed -- by whom, I don't know. It may just be that dwarves are more likely to heal their own pets since said pets are always in their vicinity.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:44, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Apparently any caged animal you buy has minor wounds on the brain, heart, lungs and guts. I bought a jaguar, another leopard and a rhesus from the elves and all have the same injuries.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 21:39, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
:::::I bought a black bear cage and it didn't have any wounds, could it be that the elves are traveling through a hostile region to reach your fortress? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:23, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::Are you in a cold region? Maybe they got frostbitten on the trip to the depot.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 11:22, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

*sorry to interrupt*
i have a war dog with a red (mangled?) 'right rear leg' and 'head'. it's been like that for about a year now, crawling aruond the fortress and sitting where it's former master died (with it's/another dog's two puppies, might i add), passing out all the time. will it die soon? infact, shouldnt it be dead already, having a mangled head? (no internal organs seem to be damaged)

== Down, but not Out ==

Something I noticed earlier today: Late in my first winter, one of my dwarves was injured while sparring with swords. His leg was yellow, no blood anywhere to be seen, and he was literally right next to a bed. He would not accept any jobs, wouldn't climb into bed to rest, eat, drink water, and nobody else would help him. He lay on the floor for a few months until he got really dehydrated and fell unconscious. Finally somebody drug him to the bed and is now bringing him water. I also noticed that "He is socially crippled by thoughts that everybody is watching and judging him" in his profile. Too mistrusting of help until he is unable to say no (finally fell unconscious). I'm hoping for a full recovery now that he is accepting help. [[User:KValthaliondil|KValthaliondil]] 18:43, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:I have had this problem too...I think it is bug 360? I lost a legendary wrestler to melancholy from it already, another one is now affected by it -- I hope he collapses and gets dragged to a bed like yours did before he goes insane too.--[[User:Scrotch|Scrotch]] 20:37, 20 January 2009 (EST)

== '' verify '' ==
'' so claiming it may help, as may marking it to be dumped.(verify) '' this most definitely worked, in a most excellent manner. now my most non-non-non-heinous speardwarf can recover. Note that I had to de-forbid it first, and then mark it for dumping. has anyone else had any experience with this? also, I still do not know if he will recover, we will have to wait.--(the most non-heinous)[[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:49, 27 December 2008 (EST)(be excellent to each other)

:this worked for me, too. I also don't know whether he'll recover yet, but the bolt is out of his arm. --[[User:Khummsein|Khummsein]] 01:11, 5 March 2009 (EST)

::Worked all the way. Legendary carpenter was up and running around, eating up all my wood again. Really quickly, too (maybe a month or two game time? This after lying in bed for almost 2 years). --[[User:Khummsein|Khummsein]] 10:08, 6 March 2009 (EST)

:::i'll edit the page accordingly then [[User:Kotekzot|Kotekzot]] 17:31, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

== Dismembered Dwarves Permanently Bedridden? ==

I have a dwarf who got his hand bitten off and his upper and lower body broken. After a year or so he was completely healed, albeit still handless. He still hasn't gotten out of bed, though. Will he ever recover, or is this a bug?--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 05:22, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
: Maybe try deconstructing the bed in question, as above? (Next release will bring doctors and splints, apparently; maybe lopped off limbs will be colored purple or something other than another shade of lightly wounded gray...) --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 21:04, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
::Lopped off eyes don't prevent people from running around. Miner took a fire imp to the face. Broke hus upper body. Ouch. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

== No sparring for nervous wounds, but hunting allowed? ==

Seems like you can turn your melee dwarves with mild spinal injuries to hunters and they will practice that way ;) Although it is rather a waste of time if they are not at least very agile [[User:Greep|Greep]] 04:33, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

== Lopped off limbs ==

I've a wrestling champion who, unfortunately, lost his entire left leg to a swordsgoblin's first strike, and is now bedridden.

It's not covered very clearly in the article just how badly lost limbs affect dwarves. I'd rather not kill him off (he happens to be quite popular), but I don't think he'll ever be getting out of bed again. If anyone has any evidence pointing to the contrary, I'd appreciate it.

For now, I'll just back up the save and lock him up. [[User:Pariah|Pariah]] 07:39, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Adamantine

2009-08-04T13:11:19Z

Loganis: /* Where to find it */

Has anyone found any yet?

:I've heard so, yes. I forget which talk page it was on.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 22:52, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

::It isn't anywhere on the wiki, if a search for "adamantine" would show it. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:54, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
::Cancel that. You can't find it by searching for "adamantine" but "addy" gave me [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000793&p=3 this forum thread]. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:56, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== Where to find it ==

http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001176

In the above thread, Toady mentions the pits (and therefore adamantium) are located on every map tile which is displayed as a mountain. He then notes that it might only place them on mountain squares in the local map as well, but that he wasn't sure. So, that detail needs verification. Also, from testing out about a dozen volcano tiles (using reveal.exe) I found adamantine and the pits on every one. So, I've assumed that volcano tiles count as mountains for pit placement. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 22:58, 5 November 2007 (EST)

This seems to be generally true, but not absolutely true. I found a volcano in a desert on a completely flat map, and there was no adamant. Perhaps there is a depth requirement. --[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]]

:Was this on an actual volcano tile, or just an adjacent tile with a magma vent? --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 02:11, 19 November 2007 (EST)

::It was on an actual volcano tile. I probably can find it this evening if you'd like me to snag the seed so you can see for yourself. --[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]] 15:36, 19 November 2007 (EST)

IS there any information on depth in relation to finding deposits, or is it random? --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 13:11, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

== Old info ==

I also ported over parts of the old adamantine info which seemed to still be correct for this version, and trimmed out the bits which no longer seemed to be true. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 22:58, 5 November 2007 (EST)
:There now only seems to be one labor directly related to adamantine, and that is Strand Extraction. Presumably weaving, smelting to wafers, and forging with the wafers now use the relevant "normal" skills but perhaps with a penalty to speed. I have not yet found adamantine, so if anybody has succeeded in analyzing its use, please correct the information in the wiki! --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 00:56, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:Okay, since I've been playing around with adamatine in 33a and 33b for a little while now, I've edited the page a fair bit. In particular, I've eliminated the Old Info section, wrapping that into the main body where it's correct, and eliminating it where it's not. I further added notes about treating the ore as a stone, since the value is a little different (I've got an Adamantine Ashery due to the ore not being an economic stone in 33a). I mentioned the apparent relationship between discovering adamantine and the King arriving. I removed the "ver" tag and replaced it with normal text, since it was forcing the page into the "outdated info" category, and I think we're now accurate to 33b. The only thing we still need to check is whether magma version of shops are still needed to handle the processing. (A magma clothier's shop... hmmm). [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 04:02, 19 November 2007 (EST)
::Since apparently someone has verified that magma smelters are not needed to make wafers, can we take this to be a concession from Toady due to magma not being available in all mountain tiles that adamantine is? --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:38, 19 December 2007 (EST)

== Demon pit image ==

I believe that's just a magma vent, which may or may not contain adamantine, though there's bound to be some somewhere in a mountain range. --[[User:Maximus|Maximus]], 20 November 2007

:I moved the above comment from the edit summary[http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Adamantine&diff=10287&oldid=10117]. It is an example of where adamantine can be found, and where one person found it. I think it's useful on this article, so I'll put it back with a caption explaining it's an example. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:23, 21 November 2007 (EST)

::Well, I'm not going to nix your edit, I'll leave that decision up to you or others. But I have to say I don't really see that image as being remotely useful without a lot more context than 'this is an example'. What exactly is it an example of? What information is actually being provided? I can't really see how the image generates anything except confusion because it happens to be a magma square. --[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]] 17:09, 21 November 2007 (EST)

::The image doesnt seem helpful as is. Perhaps with a world seed and a little more explanation [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:34, 21 November 2007 (EST)

::Unless a demon pit can always be found to the east of a magma tile, the image is misleading. The text in the Location section is more accurate, though it needs some more verifying and fleshing out.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:46, 21 November 2007 (EST)

:::All good points. I removed the image again. Maybe we can get a more helpful image at some point. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 13:30, 23 November 2007 (EST)

== Standardized spelling ==

I just want to point out, despite it being definitively spelled [[Adamantine]] consistently in Dwarf Fortress, people still will spell it "adamantium" or "adamantite," presumably due to previous experience with Marvel Comics or World of Warcraft, respectively. (At least those are the places where ''I've'' seen those alternative spellings.) --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 14:15, 23 November 2007 (EST)

== Strands and loom ==
Are adamantine strands automatically processed at loom, if 'auto weave thread into cloth' option is on? I think, it's important to know. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:29, 16 January 2008 (EST)
:They are not. There is anew Loom job, "a: Weave Metal Cloth" --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 00:11, 17 January 2008 (EST)

==Verification==
Verify tag was questioning whether Adamantine appears more often on mountain tilesets than on others. Definately, in a ratio of 100:1 or more. Confirmed using the regional prospector.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 01:23, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

== Adamantine bolts ==

In the article, it says that everything made out of adamantine uses 3 wafers in the place of one bar. This is usually correct, but in the case of making bolts, I'm pretty sure you just need one wafer to make a stack of 25 bolts. It might work for coins and other stacked things as well, I'm not sure. Can someone confirm this? --[[User:Obsidian|Obsidian]] 15:37, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

== merge? ==
I was wondering, should this be merged with raw adamantine? they both have extremely similar facts, and there are little differences. I don't know how to do this, and I think that some people might object, so any thoughts on this, go here. [[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:29, 3 October 2008 (EDT)
:Vote: '''No merge.''' The pages are seperate because [[Adamantine]] refers to the processed metal and [[Raw adamantine]] refers to the ore. It's basically the standard. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:09, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

== The ominous timer ==

...'''Too Deep'''. What, exactly, does it mean? I've heard it in some places, but this quote from Boatmurdered got me wondering for a while:
In my knowledge the Too Deep timer starts if you mine somewhere between 10-99 adamantium /.../
(Quote source: Guerilla Medic)

So, this ominous sounding thing, along with the mention (above) of mining adamantine resulting in an 'invariable game over' has gotten me quite curious.

Just what happens? What are the mechanics, how is it triggered, and most importantly--

''How does the game end?'' ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 22:14, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

:This is from the 2D version. (and it's incorrect, the timer is started based on a random roll that gets a higher chance the more Ad you've mined) Maybe we should have a page about the 2D version and all the major ways it's different from the current version. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 22:43, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

::I am aware of that; so is the magma river which I so dearly wish I was there to see. But I don't really want to use the 2D version because of all the bugs and everything.

::A few searches (using Google) said that the timer's purpose was to eventually lead to that final game over. So why's it gone and all? Shouldn't it be an option?

::And if Toady ever reads this, I think a whole lot of features from the 2D version should be brought back, hopefully in a toggleable manner (e.g. magma river--I want to pull a Boatmurdered, and a '''river of magma''' sounds pretty awesome in itself); I feel this would be great for the oldbies as well as midbies, and the newbies would eventually tromp on over and discover a few options that made the game more fun for them.

::Oh, and one last thing: Random, that's a great idea. I'd help, but I've never so much as downloaded the 2D version. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 18:37, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Well, I'll help get it started, by describing the differences I remember. Some important changes came post-3D, too, but I stopped playing DF for most of 2008, so I didn't notice what changed when.

:::*Z-levels (the biggie). Among other things, channels were no impediment unless they were filled with fluid. There was no fluid "pressure"; fluids were infinite, and if a floodgate was destroyed or otherwise unclosable, the resulting flood could easily destroy your entire fort. Being infinite, it also had no "depth" (x/7).
:::*The chasm would contain primarily antmen, ratmen, or batmen, and 5-15 of them would spontaneously crawl out of it on a fairly regular basis until you poured enough magma in there to "kill" the chasm. Frogmen, snakemen, or lizardmen would also show up spontaneously along the banks of the river (and also crawl out of wells), though much less often. The underground river would flood once each spring, summer, and fall (in the form of waves sweeping out up to 20 tiles from its banks), and the floods would tend to sweep dwarves into the river, who would almost always drown. Items swept into the river would permanently disappear.
:::*Terrain layout -- previously there was just an "outside", with a river zig-zagging north to south (except in scorching/freezing climates), a nearly flat cliff face, and cave river, chasm, magma river and demon pits at fairly regular distances eastward from the cliff face, that were present in every fortress. Behind the pits, forming the eastern edge of the map, was an adamantine-lined impassable chasm (containing no creatures -- at least, none you ever saw). Oh, and the cave river was always lined with limestone and the magma river was always lined with obsidian. Gold, platinum, hematite, and coal could be found in any mountain, though always to the east of the chasm. Gem types were also tied to depth. There were no geographic-style stone layers, and there were only a handful of different types of stone, which were either "light" (limestone, moonstone, or marble), "dark" (obsidian, jet, or onyx), or just "stone". Limestone was the only usable flux, and coal was coal (no lignite or bituminous, and it always produced 2 bars from smelting).
:::*Mining even a little bit of adamantine set into motion an eventual and unavoidable end-of-game ("Too deep"). Mining a lot of adamantine would cause it to happen at the start of the next season.
:::*Starting location choices -- Previously there were only a few dozen fixed locations on each map you could choose, all with the same layout and size; the only thing that varied was biome (climate, creatures, trees, and shrubs), and each location had only one biome. (Accessibility by different civilizations also varied depending on starting location -- this is perhaps little changed in the current version.) Now you can start just about anywhere on the world map, with a variable-size fortress map, which can span several different adjacent biomes and terrains.
:::*Cave-ins would happen pretty much automatically if you mined out a 7x7 area or larger without leaving an unmined natural column in place (or built a pillar).
:::*Choice of starting goods was very limited. You couldn't bring an anvil (one would automatically be brought in the first summer by a metalsmith). Starting points were very tight... something like a quarter of what they are now.
:::*Trader wagon access required an actual 3-wide road (not just a clear path) stretching from the western edge of the map to the depot (which had to be near the cliff face or inside the fort).
:::*You couldn't build traps or farms outdoors. You could build bridges outdoors but not make them raisable/retractable.
:::*You couldn't build/rebuild walls or any of the other [[constructions]].
:::*Activity zones, including dumps, were introduced with the 3D version.
:::*Sand was always available, from the banks of the indoor or outdoor river.
:::*Machines (gears, pumps, windmills, etc.) did not exist. There was a "mill" workshop that had to be built on one of the rivers.
:::*Nobles changed a lot. There used to be "guildmasters" corresponding to different professions (farming, mining, masonry, etc.). The manager was your first noble, who arrived after hitting 20 dwarves. There was no "trader" noble or trade skills; you could trade at any point after the caravan fully unloaded. You couldn't do workshop profiles until the manager arrived and couldn't use the stocks screen until the bookkeeper arrived, which would start the [[dwarven economy]]. The mayor, manager, trade minister, and treasurer were all different, full-time nobles, and the baron/count/duke (and their consorts) were all separate as well. Add to this the guildmasters and "Order of the <weapon>" nobles and you could easily have 30 nobles in your fort.
:::*Dwarves who created artifacts would carry those artifacts non-stop for the next several years.
:::*Mining would leave behind stones or gems 50% of the time, regardless of miner skill. Ore would be left behind 100% of the time by legendary miners, less often for lower skill. All mining byproducts now follow the "ore" formula; up to 100% of the time, dependent on skill.
:::*Encumbrance changed at some point (post-3D?). The Γ unit was made 1/10th its former weight, and much greater variation in material weights was introduced.
:::*Custom stockpiles were introduced before the 3D version -- this was probably the most revolutionary change introduced during the 2D era. Well, no, fire was probably bigger... and so buggy when it was first introduced you were best off turning it off. I believe temperature was introduced at the same time, which was also pretty buggy.
:::That's all I can remember for now.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:07, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

:Based on the boatmurdered screenshots, it appears that discovery of the chasm/cave river depended on line-of-sight (i.e. the whole thing wouldn't appear all at once the moment you breached it) [[User:Random832|Random832]] 01:51, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

::That's correct.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:57, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

:I think artifacts no longer being held on to by dwarves who made them was post-3D, I remember reading an old post in a penny arcade forum on their 3D succession game. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 01:54, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

:It's very sad that I've learned most of what I know about this from Boatmurdered.

:So, wouldn't it be good, then, if things like the magma river (with the obsidian lining working as it does now) were brought back? Also, the floods would be great as a toggleable option (only) in my opinion; heck, have it depend upon where you've settled, too. Like a possible Nile setup, if the conditions are similar. So you'd have a '''predictable''' flood which'd make muddy soil and all, maybe fertilize it (if there's a difference, and if it does any good as of yet). A modified, toggleable cave-in system would be nice, too; I don't like how the tiles just support themselves. (You can build a huge pier leading straight into the ocean, then drop a building into it, or make an aquaduct in the same manner to make lava and water create obsidian to build into or whatever...underwater base, done.) Maybe as a 'new player' option.

:Also, could you explain ''exactly'' what the "'''Too Deep'''" timer did when it finished counting down? Was some kind of animation displayed, and if so, what did it show? Or what did it do to end the game? Etcetera... If it's just one screen, screenshots would be good too. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 03:25, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

::This reminds me; daemons need a ''serious'' difficulty boost. Sure, they'll simply ''destroy'' the random new player who stumbles across them, but then again, so will [[carp]]. So I propose that somebody make the daemons absolute rape machines; the first (all-'round) daemon to spawn should be essentially ten times as strong as the daemons that spawn right afterwards or something to that effect. Spirits of fire could be given dragon-level breath, and all daemons would get super fire resistance.

::Among other things, such as [DAMBLOCK] boosts, more demons, etcetera. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 18:02, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/images/3/3c/Adamantite_game_over.PNG

I remember Toady saying somewhere that he wanted to make cave-ins as much of a challenge as in the 2D versions, but there may be game-slowdown issues. In a recent dev_now he talked about making the chasm civilization more dynamic again (not just a bunch of monsters that are gone once killed).

Balancing the difficulty of the demons is hard, since you either know how to fight them and have a long time to prepare, or you don't, and you'll get massacred. But if you want Toady to hear any of these things, say them on the forums -- he doesn't hang around the wiki.

(Some) players did indeed use the river flooding for Nile-style farming in the 2D version.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:53, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

:Interesting. Basically, though, what I'm trying to aim for is to make daemons like they were when one went Too Deep; but without a game-over screen. So you're probably going to be absolutely ''destroyed'', but you just ''might'' have a chance if you're extremely lucky.

:It'd make things easier if we had more elemental attacks; but that makes it start sounding like Pokemon after a while. But if we had, say, 'holy' weapons, then they could be made to be the only things that would do squat against daemons. Maybe the only holy weapons would be artifacts; in fact, that sounds like a great idea to me, because that means it's a lot harder to 'cheat' the system to get the weapons you'd need early.

:Also, wow, this talk section has gotten simply massive. Never thought such a large discussion would be sparked.... ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 21:59, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

::Those are some interesting ideas, though, again, Toady's the one that needs to hear them. I've copied my 2D vs. 3D list into an actual article, and expanded its purpose: [[History of Dwarf Fortress]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:22, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::: And what happened if, after the "Too deep" game over, you tried to explore the fortress in Adventurer mode ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 04:38, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::::You would find a single adjectiveless "Demon" in it, of slightly larger size than the pit demons. All raw adamantine left in the fort would supposedly turn into silver. I never tried it myself.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:35, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::::: Oh wow. That sure was a nice, intriguing game over. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 18:29, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

==Adamantine Strand Stockpiling==
So, Adamantine strands are apparently placed in cloth stockpiles, as claimed, but there doesn't seem to be any way to turn adamantine *off* for cloth stockpiles, as adamatine strands do not appear in the cloth stockpile item types options (your options under cloth are: thread(silk), thread(plant), cloth(silk), and cloth(plant)). Furthermore, all cloth apparently counts as non-plant/animal, because deselecting allow plant/animal in additional options doesn't prevent non-adamantine cloth/thread from being placed in the stockpile (and regular cloth is removed from stockpiles for which you deselect 'allow non-plant/animal'). Basically, there is no way to tell your cloth stockpiles to only accept adamantine strands, which contradicts elements of this and related pages. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:38, 25 November 2008 (EST)
:As in the article, having a Stockpile set to take from all other cloth stockpiles, but set to accept no "known" types of cloth, works. Incidentally a dyer has just dyed some Adamantine strands blue with Dimple dye. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 13:47, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

==A Little Unclear==
How many adamantium strands are produced from one raw adamantium? [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 12:20, 17 January 2009 (EST)
:One. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:04, 18 January 2009 (EST)

==Adamantine==
Adamantine is used in several mythologies to bind some sort of great evil. This is relevant to our interests.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:42, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

== Adamantine at gobbo fortresses? ==

Wondering if it's possible or not. Any help on this would be great! [[User:Pariah|Pariah]] 03:47, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Miner cancels dig: Inappropriate dig square

2009-08-03T08:11:03Z

Loganis: /* How is that possible? */

== How is that possible? ==
You wrote:

This occurs when a miner attempts to dig at the outer-most square on the map.

This can't be the cause since you can't even designate the outmost tile for digging or channeling. Please explain how you come to that explanation. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 23:53, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

:Well thats what it says when I try to remove a ramp on the outer most edge.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 00:28, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

::Crazy's probably right, as whenever you make an up ramp, a down ramp isn't directly above, but actually up and one off. It probably bugged out. Too lazy to confirm. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:16, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

:::No, that doesn't make sense either - what greep describes is not true and i can reproduce neither the problem nor the error message --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 09:30, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Ahah, that makes sense. That must have taken alot of work to figure out, sorry for all the trouble.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 21:41, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
:Hard, hard work. Mostly thinking and trying out actually. But thats what we do, the wiki warriors, serving the Bloodgod ;) --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 21:52, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

This also occurs when a miner attempts to carve an upward ramp underneath an area designated for digging out a downward stairway. That's probably what Greep was thinking of, to an extent. I assume that this error occurs whenever you attempt to have a miner try to dig/carve something underneath an area that has been designated that when dug/carved out will also give visibility to the tile underneath it. So, like channeling, downward stairway, etc. And digging underneath it before it is channeled/carved/etc. [[User:Shardok|Shardok]] 00:17, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

: I get this message when I have two tasks occupying the same space that conflict in the code. For example I asked a dwarf to channel, but then designated a bridge over that same spot. --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 08:11, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Miner cancels dig: Inappropriate dig square

2009-08-03T08:10:48Z

Loganis: /* How is that possible? */

40d Talk:Tower-cap

2009-07-27T10:48:22Z

Loganis: /* Growing Tower Caps Without Water */

this is hard to do? my girlfriend has several ponds just inside the ground of her diggings in various locations...
:Luck dependent. Not reliable.
Regarding the three-year thing: I dug a couple of tree farm chambers (each 21x21) on the bottom level of my fort. It took about 8 months to set up the irrigation system, after which I flooded most of each chamber. One year later, I have my first mature tower-cap; there are about 50 more juvenile tower-caps, so we'll see how much of an outlier this is. But three years is almost certainly wrong; it was solid rock 20 months ago. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)

Conjecture: The reason you can't bring tower-cap spawn nor plant them is because trees and shrubs are coded differently; you can plant the latter but not the former. And tower-caps are a variety of tree. Therefore, we will not be able to plant tower-caps until Toady unifies plants like he did for ore and stone. Just as we can now smooth and engrave ore veins. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:01, 10 December 2007 (EST)

You have a GirlFriend?--[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 13:07, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Natural vs carved-out ponds ==
Is it essential that the pond is already there? 
What if I do what I'm doing at the moment and drain a surface pond (well a few actually...) into a subterrenean pond...? 
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:37, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

:Huh? You're talking about where the article said you had to discover an underground pond, right? It isn't true - the author meant "lake." You'll get a pop-up message if you discover an underground lake or river.
:IMO, tower-cap growing isn't useful unless you want a large metalsmithing/glass industry and didn't settle with magma - traders will, if asked, bring quite a lot of wood. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:47, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

::Some people will most certainly argue about the cost of wood by trading but atleast you get some exported/imported wealth figures and thus work towards nobles. But the feature is nice to have, even if we still don't have the seeds. And for regions without trees it goes without saying that tree farms would be a gift from the gods. 
::--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 02:47, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Cost of wood? What? It's 3☼ each! And why are tree farms needed if I don't have trees? I build in a desert. No trees there, and I have about a hundred unused wood. Granted, I haven't started the clear glass industry or the siege industry, but wood is only needed for beds, clear/crystal glass, and siege engine parts. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:08, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Personally I always choose to live near a forest, but it's quite acceptable to buy wood from traders. Though you may run into dry-spells if the caravans don't come for a year. I'd recommend having at least 100 logs at any time. Just in case you need to build lots of beds. You can build most other things from stone instead. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 11:13, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::I presume you're living next to a volcano in that desert, since 3 metal bars per bin or barrel is 4 bars more than I'm willing to use, and 3 bars plus fuel is just nuts. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 14:03, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Aye. Why live in a desert if not for massive glass industries?
:::::Oh, and I don't make bins or barrels with anything – they aren't needed and are in fact annoying if you have OCD management. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:35, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::Hm.. I suppose that would work if you don't make [[Dwarven syrup]]... --[[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 16:39, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::::I don't – I find it as cheaty as boozecooking, which is easier, and almost identical to boozecooking. However, I do boozecook, which does use a lot of barrels for alcohol. If you buy barreled stuff from caravans and ask for it in the trade agreement, you can easily get a lot of barrels.
:::::::Worst case, you'll use up all your barrels. Then, all you have to do is put more labor sooner into cooking the stuff. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:49, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::::Was just saying, that some might complain about it. I myself seem to never have enough barrels for alcohol after I get a population over 30. I just like to have an "emergency" warehouse of booze, which takes barrels upon barrels... And syrup is always handy to have around. Also, in my personal opinion, all space-saving is good. --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 04:30, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::::::Hmmm, you must have some gigantic storerooms then savok!  --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:25, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::::::Not really. I quickly get rid of everything except prepared meals and booze, and I trade away prepared meals under ten food units.  --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:21, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

== Spontaneous generation and rocks ==
I have had tower-caps spawn in underground soil, far from my irrigated area and without any muddiness or exposure to the outside. (Though not many). Also, I assume you have to clear rocks in order for them to spawn on muddy cavern tiles?
[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 21:39, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== Prospecting in version 0.28.181.39+ ==

Does the newer prospecting feature reveal underground rivers and lakes? I haven't used DF for more than world generation in the new version... If so, the article mentions "currently very difficult to do", which can be changed. --[[User:JT|JT]] 19:08, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

:It does, so I have. :) --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 06:47, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

== The tower cap farm part is pretty much useless... ==

Do we need that tower cap farm part?
It takes more space than the main article and doesn't add much info.
Also, it has incorrect information (tower cap farm should be flooded with more water than just to cover all tiles with '1's, because some of them will dry while flooding).
Just link to article about farming and irrigation. It explains it well enough. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 20:04, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

== Muddied soil ==

I have had mined-out peat sit barren for several seasons with an exposed cave river. After I muddied some of it, vegetation started growing (on the muddy part) before all the water was dry. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:24, 9 February 2009 (EST)

:OK, how do you explain green towercaps '''growing in my not muddied corridors'''? If you don't know, don't post: tower caps grow on: muddied underground anything, OR '''not muddied underground soil, if there is a solid soil wall on the level below'''. Just as every other tree it will not grow on not buddied soil, if there is no soil wall underneath. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:dorten|dorten]]

::You're leaving out too much info. What is the source of this information? Did you test it, or is it second hand? If you tested it, what kind of test did you do? If it's second hand, where is it from? Have you ruled out different behaviors for different soils? Also, if you're confident enough about this to write in such an arrogant tone, why have you not edited any of this information into the article? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:44, 10 February 2009 (EST)
:::Sorry for arrogant tone, keeping emotions low isn't one of my skills :). Anyway, The sourceof this information is my experience. Especially in my latest forts, where I needed wood on a regular basis. My tests:
normal soil with trees, aboveground => all ok
dig out the room underneath => trees and bushes stop to grow above.
dig channels, so, that there's a stone under soil => only grass grows.
belowground muddied stone => bushes and towercaps
belowground multilevel soil => bushes and towercaps (green ones, yay!)
remove soil beneath => they stop growing
only soil floor => they do not grow
muddying in last two cases => yay! they grow again.
The tests I did not finished yet (working on them now) -
remove soil layer from below of natural aboveground forest (no new trees), and muddy it after that
muddy channeled to abovegroundness areas in suitable biomes.
do it with or without cave river/pond
Regards. (And I really am sorry for my tone)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:39, 10 February 2009 (EST)

::::This does not work - after 2 years still no sign of vegetation on soil (sandy loam cavern floor) with soil layer below (sandy loam walls), while my tree farm on muddied tiles runs fine. Can you give more specifics? Does there have to be more than 2 layers of soil? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 00:00, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::It had to happen - just when i start to complain, the first (yes, green) shrub shows up. Took forever, but yep, it's there. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 20:04, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

== Growing Tower Caps Without Water ==
So I've been growing tower caps without water for quite some time
Trick is to carve out a sandy room near the edge, as you'll see in the picture, there's a border of usually 1 block between the carved sandy room, and the outside natural world. I believe that outside needs to be forested, but I haven't tested that enough yet.
In any case this seems to circumvent the need for water. --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 10:48, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
[[File:Towercaps-sandy.jpg]]

:See the article (and entry above) for an explanation - sand is a soil --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 10:31, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Tower-cap

2009-07-27T09:51:04Z

Loganis:

this is hard to do? my girlfriend has several ponds just inside the ground of her diggings in various locations...
:Luck dependent. Not reliable.
Regarding the three-year thing: I dug a couple of tree farm chambers (each 21x21) on the bottom level of my fort. It took about 8 months to set up the irrigation system, after which I flooded most of each chamber. One year later, I have my first mature tower-cap; there are about 50 more juvenile tower-caps, so we'll see how much of an outlier this is. But three years is almost certainly wrong; it was solid rock 20 months ago. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)

Conjecture: The reason you can't bring tower-cap spawn nor plant them is because trees and shrubs are coded differently; you can plant the latter but not the former. And tower-caps are a variety of tree. Therefore, we will not be able to plant tower-caps until Toady unifies plants like he did for ore and stone. Just as we can now smooth and engrave ore veins. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:01, 10 December 2007 (EST)

You have a GirlFriend?--[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 13:07, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Growing Tower Caps Without Water ==

So I've been growing tower caps without water for quite some time
Trick is to carve out a sandy room near the edge, as you'll see in the picture, there's a border of usually 1 block between the carved sandy room, and the outside natural world. I believe that outside needs to be forested, but I haven't tested that enough yet.
In any case this seems to circumvent the need for water.
[[File:Towercaps-sandy.jpg]]

== Natural vs carved-out ponds ==

Is it essential that the pond is already there? 
What if I do what I'm doing at the moment and drain a surface pond (well a few actually...) into a subterrenean pond...? 
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:37, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

:Huh? You're talking about where the article said you had to discover an underground pond, right? It isn't true - the author meant "lake." You'll get a pop-up message if you discover an underground lake or river.
:IMO, tower-cap growing isn't useful unless you want a large metalsmithing/glass industry and didn't settle with magma - traders will, if asked, bring quite a lot of wood. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:47, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

::Some people will most certainly argue about the cost of wood by trading but atleast you get some exported/imported wealth figures and thus work towards nobles. But the feature is nice to have, even if we still don't have the seeds. And for regions without trees it goes without saying that tree farms would be a gift from the gods. 
::--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 02:47, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Cost of wood? What? It's 3☼ each! And why are tree farms needed if I don't have trees? I build in a desert. No trees there, and I have about a hundred unused wood. Granted, I haven't started the clear glass industry or the siege industry, but wood is only needed for beds, clear/crystal glass, and siege engine parts. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:08, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Personally I always choose to live near a forest, but it's quite acceptable to buy wood from traders. Though you may run into dry-spells if the caravans don't come for a year. I'd recommend having at least 100 logs at any time. Just in case you need to build lots of beds. You can build most other things from stone instead. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 11:13, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::I presume you're living next to a volcano in that desert, since 3 metal bars per bin or barrel is 4 bars more than I'm willing to use, and 3 bars plus fuel is just nuts. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 14:03, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Aye. Why live in a desert if not for massive glass industries?
:::::Oh, and I don't make bins or barrels with anything – they aren't needed and are in fact annoying if you have OCD management. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:35, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::Hm.. I suppose that would work if you don't make [[Dwarven syrup]]... --[[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 16:39, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::::I don't – I find it as cheaty as boozecooking, which is easier, and almost identical to boozecooking. However, I do boozecook, which does use a lot of barrels for alcohol. If you buy barreled stuff from caravans and ask for it in the trade agreement, you can easily get a lot of barrels.
:::::::Worst case, you'll use up all your barrels. Then, all you have to do is put more labor sooner into cooking the stuff. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:49, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::::Was just saying, that some might complain about it. I myself seem to never have enough barrels for alcohol after I get a population over 30. I just like to have an "emergency" warehouse of booze, which takes barrels upon barrels... And syrup is always handy to have around. Also, in my personal opinion, all space-saving is good. --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 04:30, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::::::Hmmm, you must have some gigantic storerooms then savok!  --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:25, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::::::Not really. I quickly get rid of everything except prepared meals and booze, and I trade away prepared meals under ten food units.  --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:21, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

== Spontaneous generation and rocks ==
I have had tower-caps spawn in underground soil, far from my irrigated area and without any muddiness or exposure to the outside. (Though not many). Also, I assume you have to clear rocks in order for them to spawn on muddy cavern tiles?
[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 21:39, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== Prospecting in version 0.28.181.39+ ==

Does the newer prospecting feature reveal underground rivers and lakes? I haven't used DF for more than world generation in the new version... If so, the article mentions "currently very difficult to do", which can be changed. --[[User:JT|JT]] 19:08, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

:It does, so I have. :) --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 06:47, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

== The tower cap farm part is pretty much useless... ==

Do we need that tower cap farm part?
It takes more space than the main article and doesn't add much info.
Also, it has incorrect information (tower cap farm should be flooded with more water than just to cover all tiles with '1's, because some of them will dry while flooding).
Just link to article about farming and irrigation. It explains it well enough. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 20:04, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

== Muddied soil ==

I have had mined-out peat sit barren for several seasons with an exposed cave river. After I muddied some of it, vegetation started growing (on the muddy part) before all the water was dry. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 02:24, 9 February 2009 (EST)

:OK, how do you explain green towercaps '''growing in my not muddied corridors'''? If you don't know, don't post: tower caps grow on: muddied underground anything, OR '''not muddied underground soil, if there is a solid soil wall on the level below'''. Just as every other tree it will not grow on not buddied soil, if there is no soil wall underneath. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:dorten|dorten]]

::You're leaving out too much info. What is the source of this information? Did you test it, or is it second hand? If you tested it, what kind of test did you do? If it's second hand, where is it from? Have you ruled out different behaviors for different soils? Also, if you're confident enough about this to write in such an arrogant tone, why have you not edited any of this information into the article? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:44, 10 February 2009 (EST)
:::Sorry for arrogant tone, keeping emotions low isn't one of my skills :). Anyway, The sourceof this information is my experience. Especially in my latest forts, where I needed wood on a regular basis. My tests:
normal soil with trees, aboveground => all ok
dig out the room underneath => trees and bushes stop to grow above.
dig channels, so, that there's a stone under soil => only grass grows.
belowground muddied stone => bushes and towercaps
belowground multilevel soil => bushes and towercaps (green ones, yay!)
remove soil beneath => they stop growing
only soil floor => they do not grow
muddying in last two cases => yay! they grow again.
The tests I did not finished yet (working on them now) -
remove soil layer from below of natural aboveground forest (no new trees), and muddy it after that
muddy channeled to abovegroundness areas in suitable biomes.
do it with or without cave river/pond
Regards. (And I really am sorry for my tone)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:39, 10 February 2009 (EST)

::::This does not work - after 2 years still no sign of vegetation on soil (sandy loam cavern floor) with soil layer below (sandy loam walls), while my tree farm on muddied tiles runs fine. Can you give more specifics? Does there have to be more than 2 layers of soil? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 00:00, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
:::::It had to happen - just when i start to complain, the first (yes, green) shrub shows up. Took forever, but yep, it's there. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 20:04, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

File:Towercaps-sandy.jpg

2009-07-27T09:43:17Z

Loganis: evidence of hollowing out "white sandy" areas near their edge produce tower caps

evidence of hollowing out "white sandy" areas near their edge produce tower caps

40d Talk:Vomit

2009-07-27T04:55:14Z

Loganis: /* Pumping ? */

Perhaps this page should be merged with and redirect to a general contaminants page? - [[User:Mzbundifund|Mzbundifund]] 23:52, 21 November 2007 (CST)

I agree--vomit isn't big enough to have its own page. [[User:Midna|Midna]] 13:44, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

== Mood penalty? ==

Is there any sort of mood penalty associated with vomit? I can't imagine dwarves like trodding through the stuff...
:Nope they're quite content to wade through the stuff.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 20:48, 15 May 2008 (EDT)
::Eww. --[[User:Borgin|Borgin]] 23:47, 15 May 2008 (CST)
:::From what I read on [[thought]] page vomit can only help after it's created. Dwarves can drink vomit, though it obviously makes them unhappy. I wish DF had true fluid mechanics, not only water and magma. Vomit pump would be incredibly awesome. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 21:30, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
::::"Help"? If I understand [[Thought]] correctly "was forced to drink vomit lately" is a negative thought. However, I'm not sure it's actually ''possible'' (at least in the current version). [[User:Kirig Stonebeard|Kirig Stonebeard]] 08:54, 26 February 2009 (EST)

You're making me devise a wicked plan that involves a vomitorium enforced sun room that creates a vomit pool, which I can then pump... I'll have to wait for the fluid mechanics but.. it'll happen --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 01:00, 5 December 2008 (EST)

:I believe vomit is not a liquid but a "covering", like mud, so that won't work.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:03, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::It would work if vomit were made a fluid as Someone-else suggested, but AFAIK there's no reason to think Toady plans to institute this. It would be... interesting, though. I'll sign the petition if it includes blood! [[User:Kirig Stonebeard|Kirig Stonebeard]] 08:54, 26 February 2009 (EST)

== Cleaning? ==

Will dwarves with the Cleaning job clear up puddles of vomit, or does it just go away over time?
:I'm pretty sure they don't. They certainly don't clean it off of themselves either! Eventually most of my fortress seems to end up vomit-covered, especially babies. Actually babies end up worse as their parents tend to drop them in the mud whilst vomiting and if there's been a siege recently and the reason for everyone coming out is because of the lootables on the floor there tends to be a healthy amount of blood too, just in case vomit and mud stains weren't enough. --[[User:Krythorne|Krythorne]]
::It seems to disappear from the floor at the beginning of each season. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]]
:Cleaning indicates that vomit will be cleaned, but only if it's inside (it's left to disappear at the end of the season if it's outdoors). That could use verifying though. [[User:Kirig Stonebeard|Kirig Stonebeard]] 08:54, 26 February 2009 (EST)

==Escaping cave adaptation==
Once it has set in, is there any way to cure cave adaptation? Because I have dwarves building up a large tower, and they keep vomiting. It's annoying, and it's not good for the mental state of the fort. --[[User:Cypress|Cypress]] 17:45, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
:See [[Cave adaptation]] for info on getting it, curing it, and preventing it. [[User:Kirig Stonebeard|Kirig Stonebeard]] 08:54, 26 February 2009 (EST)

==Any effect?==
It would seem vomit doesn't have negative thought penalties, but does it have ANY negative effects (or positive, for that matter)? There's a "was forced to drink vomit lately" negative thought built into the game as mentioned above, but AFAIK it's not actually possible to drink the stuff. Are there any negatives that ''are'' instituted? If not it makes the Cleaning labor seem like kind of a waste to me (except for aesthetic purposes). [[User:Kirig Stonebeard|Kirig Stonebeard]] 08:54, 26 February 2009 (EST)

==Pumping ?==
If you were to say.. .harvest this, create a small sunlight room full of vomit.. .could it be pumped? --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 04:55, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Vomit

2009-07-27T04:55:00Z

Loganis: /* Any effect? */

40d Talk:Firefly

2009-07-26T09:11:57Z

Loganis: Created page with 'how... would one possibly become a pet, are they actually trappable vermin?--~~~~'

how... would one possibly become a pet, are they actually trappable vermin?--[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 09:11, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Export

2009-07-23T07:07:10Z

Loganis:

When goods are offered (not traded) in the caravan menu, do they count as exported wealth ? --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 08:01, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

My imported wealth is at 525780 yet me exported wealth is stopping at 5000. I know I have sold more than 5k worth of items. Why wont it move from 5k?
: I am having a similar bug, i export many thousands at a time to attempt to adjust, yet it sticks at 50*--[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 07:07, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Export

2009-07-23T07:06:58Z

Loganis:

40d Talk:Road

2009-07-22T05:43:58Z

Loganis: /* Smooth road? */

It isn't nessessary in 0.27 for a road to be built to get human wagons and in fact, it appears that even if you do, they don't use it sometimes.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 10:50, 4 November 2007 (EST)

It looked like the human caravan moved faster on a road, but I'm not sure. Ill find out next summer season. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:02, 8 November 2007 (EST)

== removing roads ==

how do I remove a road... I didn't really get the difference btn a road and a floor for corridors and now I cannot put a door at the front of my fortress to lock the invaders out!
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:45, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:I worked it out... it is through the {{key|q}} menu [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:17, 3 January 2008 (EST)

== using roads ==

I've just built a road to help the traders yet they happily plow through the wilderness. Is there anyway to help speed them along and make them use the road. Perferably without having to build wall or channels to funnel them.
[[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 00:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)

::Basically you have to set the traffic restrictions on the surrounding land. [[http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Traffic]] that link should help. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 15:50, 24 December 2008 (EST)

== speed ==

will roads speed up my dwarves? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 09:52, 29 February 2008 (EST)

== Roads and floor underneath ==

It seems that buildin on varied floortile makes the game forget any special occurences. For example if main biome's architype is gabbro, and you have found nasty microcline vein that ruins your entire corridor, you can build road over the microcline and then remove it to transform the floor into gabbro. I did sone arbitual testing and I could show those testing results shoud anyone care.
--[[User:Athan|Athan]] 10:59, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
:It also forgets about smoothing ot that place (not the engravings, though). There was a similar problem with constructions, but Toady fixed it (at least dev log says so).--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:13, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Actual Benefit ==

I had a wilderness or swamp or similar area... and i kept having my cleared path get overgrown with trees. I paved it and I had no future problems with this. Dunno if it still works, and i've not duplicated it to see if it matters. In the mountainous regions, you smooth the boulders and there won't be future problems. --[[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 16:13, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

:I just had an idea... stockpiles block tree growth too right? So if you're lazy you can just build stockpiles with no demands right? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 08:59, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

== Amount of material needed ==

What? I know that the formula for the 2D version was (height×width+1)/4, rounding up, for most materials, and (height×width+1)/2, rounding up, for metal. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:28, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

:The ceiling of [(height x width + 1)/4] is the same as the floor of [(height x width)/4 + 1] so both formula result in the same answer, I didn't know about the first so when I tested it myself, I used the second. --[[User:Kyace|Kyace]] 18:09, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

::Oh. I should've actually checked out the math.
::I wonder whether metals still have a different formula and how that works... I suspect they don't. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 00:02, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

It never occurred to me to try paving with metal, that's awesome. I've got a fortress with a legendary goblin bone front door and weapon traps filled exclusively with captured goblin weapons, now I'm going to pave the way leading up to it with iron from melted-down goblin armor. It's a pity that I can't install goblin skull totems along the sides of the road too, if I put them out there they'll probably just get stolen. :) [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 00:19, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

:Take care. I had a sweet brass road melted by a dragon back in the flat fortress days. [[User:Rylen|Rylen]] 09:37, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

::There's always more goblins coming to deliver more iron to my smelters. Besides, iron is magma-proof, so I'd hope it'd be dragon-breath-proof as well. As long as there are no rust monsters lurking about out there... [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 12:01, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

== Smooth road? ==

I'm having a moment here... how does one generate the smooth stone road? The only two options are dirt or paved that I see, and trying to designate smoothing doesn't seem to be working. Or is it automatically smooth if you use the right materials? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 01:02, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

:Use blocks instead of stone. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 04:09, 21 September 2008 (EDT)
::Is there an advantage? I'm assuming value.--[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 05:43, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

== Destruction ==

Can trolls destroy roads? Will lava destroy roads? I'm trying to build something to cover up my rivers so that my lava defense doesn't cripple my water supply. [[User:Lymojo|Lymojo]] 05:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)Lymojo

:I know for sure that dragons can destroy roads. It was a bitch because even a little flame would remove the entire road section at once. [[User:Sensei|Sensei]] 01:07, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
:OP here, I've done some of my own research. Lava definitely destroys roads, and I'm guessing trolls do, too, because they are technically "buildings".
:Interestingly, though, roads are almost perfectly suited for my brook-covering purposes, because after they're removed they return everything to whatever the default layer is. All brook tiles covered by a road are transformed into soil when the road is removed. (The actual water-filled tiles underneath are perfectly preserved - just the "brook" tiles on the surface are changed). This was nice for me, but you should be careful if you're looking to preserve your pretty river vista. [[User:Lymojo|Lymojo]] 05:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)Lymojo

== Skill Used? ==

What skill/job is used to make a road? Could that be added to this page? Thank you. --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 22:23, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
*Roads need to be designed by someone with the [[Architecture]] labor, but the actual construction can be done by anybody. Generally, the construction will be done by the architect (because he's already right there), but if construction is suspended and resumed then somebody else will likely come along and finish it up. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:56, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Melt item

2009-07-17T00:47:39Z

Loganis: /* Melting items and mandates */

How material efficient is melting things down? [[User:Risim|Risim]] 23:54, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:It's not lossless, that's for sure. I could be quite wrong, but something makes me want to say it's around 3:1, based on bars required to create the items. I think overages are lost, but that's just a casual observation. It's really the only way to get certain metals in larger quantities though, assuming importing the bars or ore alone aren't good enough for your means. (Most commonly run into when trying to get certain metals from the mountainhomes before you're ready to bring in humans) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:32, 26 January 2008 (EST)
:: Does smelting need coal?--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:53, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:::It needs fuel. So coal or magma. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 00:25, 1 March 2008 (EST)

:Well, i got a bar of steel from melting a steel piccolo and a steel toy axe(2 items), however the piccolo was of "*" quality, not sure if the quality affects melting or not, so mentioning it just to be on the safe side.

Does designating an item to melt make it forbidden? (for equipping) – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]]
:Please sign your edits with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. Also, no, it doesn't. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 22:43, 11 April 2008 (EDT)

==Melting items and mandates==

I had a noble who had a mandate for two bronze goods. I melted down some bronze things and made a bronze bar from it. But that didn't seem to satisfy the mandate; he still wanted 2 bronze goods. Making bronze bars normally satisfies the mandates though. Can anyone else verify that making bars by melting things wont satisfy a mandate? --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 23:27, 23 April 2008 (EDT)
:You'll get no verify from me as I've never melted anything down. However, I will suggest making goblets when you have a metal mandate. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 00:00, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
Agreed, as far as I know, you'll need to make something OUT of bronze not just make bronze bars to satisfy him... that or kill the bastard --[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 00:47, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

==Merge with [[smelting]]?===

would be senseful, or? --[[User:Catpaw|Catpaw]] 05:32, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

==Can't find melt object?==

<s>I've got an armor stockpile full of narrow and large iron armor pieces, all marked for melting. Every time I try to Melt a Metal Object though, I get "Kib Duradtirist cancels Melt a Metal Object: Needs melt-designated item." The stockpile is inside and accessible (he's been pulling pieces from it already, and has already melted about a dozen), and I've tried unselecting and reselected the melt-able objects through the stock screen, clicking on them individually, and choosing them en masse; all to no avail. Anyone have any insight or suggestions?</s> I didn't realize that 'dwarves stay indoors' meant 'dwarves stay underground.' --[[User:Torasin|Torasin]] 23:34, 20 January 2009 (EST)

==Which is it?==

[[Melt item|This article]] says battle axes and picks are the best for training a weaponsmith, while the [[Weaponsmith]] article says trap components are better. Anyone?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 19:48, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:Following the argument of recovery = itemSize/10, the mentioned trap weapons are better, as their size is 5 and that of of picks and battle axes is 4. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 21:59, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

::I said that in the forums, too, and that would be my bad - I forgot to check "trap weapons". Going by the RAW's, that's true ONLY if a trap weapon takes 1 metal to forge - and I don't make trap weapons. If only 1 bar is used, then those have a better return, yes, and those should be changed (and bar use made clear in trap weapon articles).--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:07, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Only a singe bar. Yup. Definetely trap components. Changing now.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:25, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

== Cow cage ==
what happens to an animal when you melt a cage? --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 20:02, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

== Melting Different Metals ==

If a smelter stores all of the data of how much of a bar that is smelt there, does it keep different data of different metals? Destroy the building and that data is lost I'm guessing.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 00:18, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Vomit

2008-12-05T06:00:01Z

Loganis: /* Mood penalty? */

40d Talk:Philosopher

2008-12-01T06:54:14Z

Loganis: /* URGENT!! PHILOSOPHER DOING WORK!! */

Thought we could start posting any significant information or events related to the philosopher arriving, in an attempt to work out what causes it. The philosopher arrived for me in the first migrant wave after breaking 110 population, in the spring of my 4th year. Fortress wealth was 124879, and one of my Axe Lords had just become a Champion. Nothing else significant occured between that migrant wave and the previous one. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 14:46, 26 November 2007 (EST)

In the previous version the philosopher came when you hit 100 dwarves. The philosopher came when I hit 100 in this version too. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 15:30, 26 November 2007 (EST)

: I cannot confirm this. I had 101 Dwarves, and the next immigrant wave did not include the philosopher. [[User:Drahflow|Drahflow]] 15:23, 29 January 2008 (EST)

My philosopher just showed up. He showed up by himself with no other immigrants. I had 100+ dwarves, but tragedy struck (quite a bit) a couple seasons ago, and now I only have 93. [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 13:40, 7 March 2008 (EST)

My first encounter with a Philosopher; pop 127 (has been >120 since the last immigration, raised again more recently by several births). Created wealth: 516819, imported: 336914, exported: 24047. -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 20:35, 6 April 2008 (EDT)

I was in middle of trading with the elves when my philosopher came (Just now). But before the elves came, I was working on a sorting scheme to dispose of the elves as 'CrazyMcfobo Absolutely detests elves' My wealth was well over a million, and populating is just over 100.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 17:20, 10 April 2008 (EDT)

He came to mine when my population hit 133. I have about 20 military dwarves, half of which are currently in the guard. I also had plenty of jail and bedroom space. I had a Imported Wealth of 393,564*, and 816 seeds. I also had 19 farmers and 12 craftsdwarves... but apart from that there isnt really a lot more to say. Seems to come at high population counts.

I have recieved the Philosopher with a population of just 99, although I have had population levels higher in the past. The Philosopher came in spring, just after I had annoyed the Elves with an ash amulet that accidently slipped into my export. Rest of stats as follows: Created Wealth: 1250863 Imported Wealth: 820901 Exported Wealth: 22041. Of note perhaps is that earlier in the spring I gained another legendary dwarf, bringing the count of legendarys up to 17, another 7 legendarys are dead--[[User:ArkTane|ArkTane]] 19:22, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

Arrival - Population:130 ; Created wealth:1,575,988 ; Food stores:9,290 (seeds:2433, drink:3105, other:3208) ; 13 legendary dwarves ; 6 royal guard, 13 fortress guard, 2 elite wrestlers ; 10 noble positions w/ 8 nobles, not counting philosopher ; 9 artifacts ; mid-spring arrival. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 17:44, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

==URGENT!! PHILOSOPHER DOING WORK!!==

I was just looking around my fort when a noble (i thought it was my mayor) started demolishing a wall. Then when i looked closer it turned out to be my philosopher!!! I took a screenshot but I don't know how to upload it here. Can someone tell me how? --[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 00:14, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
:It might be that deconstructiong walls is an all-dwarf adults-only task, which is rare to see. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 01:04, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
:: AFAIK, Deconstruction is indeed an all-dwarf task. I'm pretty sure I saw a kid doing it. Kids will also work in the fields, so I suspect Philsophers will also harvest. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 01:35, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:"Upload file", left side of your screen. But you don't need to show us a screenshot in this case; nobles working is a known phenomenon, outlined at [[labor]]. "Remove construction" was missing from the list there, though, so it's good you brought it up.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:22, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

My Philospher is currently Trading at Depot I'm impressed...--[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 01:54, 1 December 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Civilization

2008-11-12T07:24:34Z

Loganis:

Note: it seems as if removing any one of these completely (just deleting their entry from the entity_ raw) will cause infinite map rejects; the world generation seems to require (at least?) one of each category. --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 17:50, 8 February 2008 (EST)

I am using small worlds (33x33) for experimenting and the dwarven civ often doesn't have any "leaders" thus no kings - how would a game play out on such a world? Obviously you dont get a liaison, but what about nobles/king? Is there a way to determine if a king is present from the world map alone? Or how "big" a dwarven civ is or smth like that? Could the world even evolve while you play and "produce" a king? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:05, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

So, I've noticed several instances of Evil Dwarf Kingdoms, has anyone else?--[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 02:24, 12 November 2008 (EST)