Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.31:Losing

2010-12-21T22:03:00Z

MC Dirty:

{{Quality|Exceptional}}
{{D for Dwarf}}
{{av}}

Losing is fun!

Either way, it keeps you busy.

There is no internal end point, single goal, final Easter egg or "You Win!" announcement in Dwarf Fortress. Therefore, eventually, almost every fortress will fall. The only ones that don't tend to be very conservative and very boring—and what fun is that? Therefore, DF = losing, DF = fun => DF = losing = fun, and that's okay! It's a game philosophy, so embrace it, own it, and have ''fun'' with it!

Most new players will lose their first few forts sooner rather than later; when you lose a {{l|fortress}}, don't feel like you don't understand the game. Dwarf Fortress has a steep learning curve, and part of the process (and fun!) is discovering things for yourself. However, this Wiki serves as an excellent place to speed up the learning process.

If you lose, you can always {{l|reclaim fortress mode|reclaim fortress}} or go visit it in {{l|adventurer mode}}.

If you're looking for more ways to test yourself, try either the {{l|mega construction}} or the {{l|Challenges}} articles.

[[File:FunComic.png|thumb|right|Fun in Dwarf Fortress]]

== Autopsy, or why your fortress died ==

Various common things can cause the death of a fortress. Let's examine some together...

===Dwarf vs. Nature===
Sometimes the wilds take you out.

====Local Wildlife====
Goblins aren't the only creatures that want you dead. The obvious threats aside, some {{L|creature}}s with benign names or descriptions can be surprisingly deadly. A sudden wildlife attack can quickly cripple or destroy an unprepared fortress. Before you unpause a new game for the first time, hit {{k|u}}nits, and scroll down to see what's sharing your map. Learn to do this regularly—new creatures will frequently migrate onto your map and then off again to be replaced by others.

Consider arming up and thinning out any predictable threats.

Outdoor titans and megabeasts are a later stage hazard.

====Underground Life====
Underground life can be even more dangerous than surface life. Dig down to a cavern, and expect to be fending off hordes of smaller, weaker creatures as well as larger, more solitary creatures like [[Giant Cave Spider]]s and [[Blind Cave Ogre]]s. Arming up helps a lot, as there is usually only a small entrance they can get in by. A row of cage traps is exceptionally powerful there.
Underground Forgotten Beasts and semimegabeasts are a later stage hazard—and one that cage traps will offer very little protection against. Even if all the other creatures in the cavern are stopped by your cage traps, don't allow yourself to get complacent.

====Magma and its denizens====
Magma by its self is dangerous enough to destroy a fortress that fails to use it properly without factoring in the fact that magma sources are the home to many dangerous creatures that can destroy buildings and spread out through your fortress...
A way to avoid this from happing is to build fortifications before using the magma for other purposes...{{verify}}

===Dwarf vs. Dwarf===
Sometimes you bring it on yourself.

====No Food====
A serious danger, generally in the more inhospitable {{L|climate}}s, is the loss of your {{L|dwarf|dwarves}} due to starvation. As dwarves begin to starve, they will become {{L|hungry}}, then {{L|starving}}. This will cause them first to slow down all work, and then to become very {{L|unhappy}}. When they die, their friends will become upset and will become even more unhappy, potentially causing the remainder of your fortress to break out in a {{L|tantrum spiral|terminal hissy fit}}.

Don't forget your alternative sources of {{L|food}}. If your {{L|farm}}s aren't doing the job and a {{L|caravan|trade caravan}} is months away, try {{L|butchering}} your {{L|domestic animal}}s, {{L|plant gathering|gathering plants}}, or resorting to the {{L|hunting}} of local wildlife.

====No Booze====
Equally as bad is no {{L|alcohol}}, which dwarves ''require'' to be happy and productive. Some alcohol can be acquired from {{L|caravan}}s, but not enough for an entire fort until the next caravan arrives. You must gather or {{L|farm}} certain plants to then {{L|brew}} those in a {{L|still}} with an empty {{L|barrel}}—it's just part of being a dwarf. Be sure to make lots of barrels. Often a shortage of barrels is just as bad as a shortage of beer. A dwarf would rather die than lower themselves to drinking from a [[mug]] (though it doesn't stop them being produced by the tonne in your [[workshops]]).

====Water====

=====No water=====
Healthy dwarves will not die of thirst as long as they have alcohol, which in the current version can be {{L|Brewing|brewed}} without the use of water. However, injured dwarves must be given water, not alcohol, or they will die of dehydration.

{{L|Rain}} will refill stagnant {{L|pool}}s of water slowly. In a hot {{L|climate}}, this may evaporate almost immediately. What's more, if the map is in a dry {{L|climate}}, such as a desert (hot or cold), then there can be long periods of time with no water anywhere - in extreme cases, none ever. Snow will not refill pools, so you can also have a lack of water in very cold {{L|climate}}s. Also, if weather has been turned off in the {{L|init.txt}} file then there will be no rain and no water will accumulate, though it may be there at the beginning of the game.

If all else fails, the {{L|caverns}} are bound to contain water somewhere, so you can put down a {{L|well}}. Watch out for {{L|Giant toad|other}} [[:Category:DF2010:Humanoids|sources]] {{L|Cave crocodile|of fun.}}

=====Too Much Water (aka "Flooding accidents")=====
The opposite side of the dehydration spectrum is having too ''much'' water. Remember that water can {{L|flow}} in 10 directions (the 8 horizontal ones as well as up and down, to the level of its source.)

If your fortress is beginning to flood from {{L|Water#Sourced Water|sourced water}}, abandon all of the levels the water can reach immediately—create a civilian alert and order your dwarves to a burrow upstairs. You will never be able to recover those areas unless you can manage to {{L|pump}} out the water faster than it floods in, which can take over a year or two of game time to establish a functioning automated pump system. Generally, a flooding accident spells doom for your fortress.

Sometimes, a fortress is flooded with {{L|magma}}. This is even more {{L|fun}}, and even harder to recover from. Any shut door will stop magma, it doesn't rise as aggressively (via {{L|pressure}}) as water, and magma can be {{L|pump}}ed out with the right equipment. Read up on it. Good luck.

==== Inability to mine ("Digger Mortis") ====
aka no {{L|pick}}s.

Diggor Mortis: ''when a Dorf with a pickaxe decides that digging where they shouldn't is a bloody good idea.''

Simply put, you need {{L|pick}}s to mine {{L|ore}}, which is then {{L|smelt}}ed to make {{L|metal}} for items like more picks. If you are careless (or ignorant) of how to dig safely, and your {{L|miner}}s create a {{L|cave-in|collapse}} or flood and their equipment gets lost/destroyed/unrecoverable, ''and'' you have no materials to make more picks, you will be at a severe handicap until the problem is solved. Any dwarf can be given the {{L|mining}} {{L|labor}}, but without a pick they can do nothing. There is no way to get new metals or stone for any purpose nor any way to dig new rooms/tunnels unless you have picks.

If you have {{L|ore}} or {{L|bar}}s to create a {{L|weapons-grade}} metal, and a {{L|forge}} (and {{L|smelter}} if you need one), you can create new picks and continue. You might get lucky with a {{L|caravan}} - elves never carry picks, but humans sometimes have bronze ones, and dwarves generally bring some along. If the first dwarven caravan doesn't bring any, you can try to keep your fortress running long enough to request additional {{L|pick}}s from your Outpost {{L|Liaison}}, who will arrive with the next dwarven trade {{L|caravan}} in a year. Or you can {{L|abandon}} and try again.

If you have {{L|axe}}s and {{L|tree}}s available, then you can build {{L|construction|structure}}s, {{L|building}}s and {{L|furniture}} of {{L|wood}}, which is something.

Averting this fate is simple: stockpile at least one additional pick at the first possible opportunity, or some of the {{L|weapons-grade|raw material}} to make more, and away from current digging operations.

See also: {{L|Make your own weapons}}

===Dwarf vs Society?===
Sometimes your traditions and morals conspire. Hell Is Other Dwarves?

====General Unhappiness====
Think it's no big deal to leave your dwarves with a mediocre {{L|dining room}}, no-{{L|quality}} bed and a generally inadequate fortress?

If there is little in a fortress to give your dwarves happy {{L|thoughts}} and enough to give them unhappy {{L|thoughts}}, then your dwarves will start to throw {{L|tantrum}}s, grow melancholy, and/or cause general chaos. In extreme (but sadly not ''rare'') examples, this can lead to a {{L|tantrum spiral}} and the loss of the entire fortress. As of DF 2010, dwarf marriage is much more commonplace, with several marriages often happening per year or even per season. This means that the loss of one dwarf is likely to lead to a very unhappy widow - and potentially a tantrum spiral. Unhappiness is more likely to occur if your fortress is suffering other kinds of downfall as well, so try to keep all the bases covered.

Another problem is if you don't have a justice system in place at the time of a spiral and manage to recover. If you later implement the justice system, the hammer may kill the former tantrum throwers, starting another tantrum because of their deaths.

===Dwarf vs Dwarves, Orcs, Goblins, Humans, Elves...===
Seizing goods from a friendly caravan will often lead to large shipment of fun next time the traders visit. Remember, it's not paranoia if they ''are'' out to get you.

====Ambush====
Goblin and elven ambushes alike will charge into your fortress after they are discovered. They still retreat after suffering enough casualties. Goblins still arrive with caravans, and elves can attack at any time. Even if your dwarves do not venture onto the surface, caravans will eventually trigger the ambushes.

See Also:
:* {{L|Defense guide}}
:* {{L|Defense design}}
:* {{L|Trap design}}
:* {{L|Military design}}

====War====
War never changes.

See [[#Ambush|Ambush]].

====Siege====
{{L|Siege}}s can be quite devastating to a fortress, but unlike most of the other ways of losing, they are unlikely to occur early on, even if you do something stupid to piss off another civilization.

Should hosts of goblins besiege your gates and drive your peasantry inside, trolls beat down your doors and force you to seal off from the outside world, you may have already lost the game. Even if you have built an utterly impenetrable fortress with drawbridges and moats, a sieging army may stick around for a long time. Although a dwarven fortress can be made self-contained, with {{L|list of crops|crops}}, {{L|metal}} and {{L|fuel}} readily available, underground {{L|tree farm|wood source}} and your own {{L|livestock}}, a fortress may not be able to sustain such a state indefinitely.

For example, {{L|trade}} with the outside world has now been shut off, leaving you only what {{L|ore}}s are on your map for the production of mandated goods. Then again, you might not have nobles. In the (very) long run even those will run out. This can result in a breakdown of social order if you do not prevent your {{L|Hammerer}} from killing or maiming your dwarves. {{L|Shell}}, {{L|bone}} and {{L|leather}} commonly acquired by {{L|hunting}} and {{L|fishing}} need to be supplied by previously established livestock and access to suitable water. If these resources are no longer available to your workers, moody {{L|craftsdwarf|craftsdwarves}} will be driven into suicide or worse. Rotten {{L|vermin}} {{L|corpse}}s begin to heap in your food supply, forcing you to dump these into inside {{L|refuse|refuse pile}}s, generating {{L|miasma}}. Better build indoor refuse piles away from trafficked areas. Unless an {{L|well|interior water supply}} was established (or you find water in caverns) your wounded will die of dehydration.

With all these critical industries unproductive, dwarves dying, and friends mourning over the rotting heaps of slain loved ones, it's important to remember your dwarves have nothing to do but throw funeral receptions, hold grief counseling sessions and host the occasional keg stand. This means they've all become one big happy family of friends, manically depressed from the loss of any dwarf.

In short, the attacking army can simply wait until your dwarves emo themselves to death.

====HFS====
''(Hidden Fun Stuff)''

If you don't want {{L|Hidden Fun Stuff|spoilers}}, trust us: you'll ''know'' when you've found it. It's a great deal of ''fun''.

{{Category|Guides}}

‼SCIENCE‼

2010-12-21T22:00:15Z

MC Dirty:

{{D for Dwarf}}

A specific form of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartle_Test#Explorers spading] in which one or more dwarven test subjects are observed in laboratory habitat. Dwarves may also conduct such test; indeed the same dwarf performing ‼Science‼ may also ''be'' the ‼Science‼ Dwarven adventurers may also perform ‼Science‼, but if it's not a dwarf, it just isn't ‼Science‼ 

Not to be confused with science. !!Science!!, in comparison to science, generally involves more magma, more casualties and more [[Fun]].

40d Talk:Fishing

2010-03-02T23:57:29Z

MC Dirty: /* Female Fisherdwarves? */

Most of this was taken from the old wiki as it all seems applicable here. Whether or not fish can be depleted or not I do not know - at this point it seems that the turtle supply is endless.--[[User:Decanter|Decanter]] 05:03, 7 November 2007 (EST)

:I had a 'there is nothing to catch in the swamps' message a few times. so it is possible to deplete all the fish in a pond, but haven't been able to get rid of all the fish. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 06:40, 7 November 2007 (EST)

Does anyone with more experience than I know what make (or made) Carp so dangerous? In 0.27.169.33a and previous, swimming creatures would gain incredible attributes due to gaining experience by swimming all the time, which would obviously make combat more dangerous. In the latest version (0.27.169.33b) though, innate swimmers no longer gain swim skill, which sounds like it would make fish rather less dangerous.--[[User:Kmgraba|Kmgraba]] 22:37, 18 November 2007 (EST)

:Carps aren't really dangerous versus a soldier who can swim (my first 125 kills were carps,longnose gars and lampreys in adventure mode), but they can easily drag an unarmed untrained fisherdwarf into water and drown him. [[User:Wagawaga|Wagawaga]] 20:23, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

== Useful stuff to add to article. ==

Are brooks fishable? Streams? Are swamps depleted permanently or temporarily? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:24, 13 November 2007 (EST)
:Brooks are fishable and can be depleted. Swamps, brooks and artificial underground lakes are depleted temporarily. When any biome becomes depleted - a fishing zone anywhere near the water in that biome shows that there are 0 (zero) squares suitable for fishing.
:Also of notice is that the swamp will only repopulate with turtles/whatever was there in the first time even if you connect it to brook with other fish by a channel.
:My question now is whether the amount to be fished out before depletion is correlated with the amount of tiles with water or does every biome have a fixed amount preset on map generation?--[[User:Another|Another]] 11:07, 13 November 2007 (EST)

::I'd have to say it's at least partially connected to the amount of water; I have 3 different fortresses right now and the one with the fewest lakes definitely gets depleted more commonly, and faster, than the rest of the maps. I haven't ruled out the confound of the biome itself; perhaps there is a larger amount on biomes like swamp, and they also have more water. Anyone know if making lakes larger, or making your own artificial lakes helps with depletion? -Gotthard

== Frozen rivers ==

Can you fish a frozen river / lake?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:21, 6 January 2008 (EST)

== Fishing in caves ==

Is it a problem to fish in a underwater lake filled with snakemen and lizardmen?
I'd guess they could be fished and kill off the dwarf...
I kinda wanta catch em like pokemon.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 15:33, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

:It is okay as long as you have some soldiers or traps near the fisherdwarf... at least if you care about his life. [[User:Wagawaga|Wagawaga]] 20:20, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

== Fishing is the labor used to catch fish. ==

"Fishing is the labor used to catch fish."
This is somewhat inaccurate. When I asked on [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25736.0 the forum], I was told that what you catch is unrelated to the actual number of fish in the river. The river can apparently be depleted when you can see fish vermin in it. Perhaps this should be changed to saying that fishing creates raw fish. [[User:DanielLC|DanielLC]] 14:53, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

== Fishing Indoors ==
How large of an artificial lake or murky pool must you make in order for it to be a functional fishing spot? Can you fish through grates, bars or hatches? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 17:50, 31 January 2009 (EST)

:I had a fisherdwarf fishing in a 1-square inside pool so i suppose that as long as you can designate an area as "fishing area" you can take fish out of it. You can fish through hatches, i can confirm this, i dont know through bars and grates. [[User:Wagawaga|Wagawaga]] 20:20, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

== Research on fish depletion, use of bars (and presumably grates), biome impact ==

Take a look at http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=32555.msg475330#msg475330. I've posted the results of some fishing tests there.

Important conclusions:

-Fish are sourced from biomes.

-Biome fish stocks appear to reset every season.

-Rivers/streams/brooks have their own "biome fish counter" independent of the actual biome the river's passing through.

-Otherwise, the game looks at where the water tile you're fishing from is, and then figures out which biome it's associated with. The nature of surrounding tiles (i.e. is this a pond, or a channel off a river, or a bucket-filled pit) is immaterial.

-The creation of fish at the completion of a successful fishing attempt is abstracted. The presence or absence of actual fish vermin (or actual fish creatures, e.g. carp) is immaterial.

-Dwarves can fish through horizontal bars, but building them is finicky. Read the full post linked above. [[User:Kethas|Kethas]] 03:24, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

== Female Fisherdwarves? ==
How do they fish without a beard? [[User:DeadlyLintRoller|DeadlyLintRoller]] 01:23, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

:Though no scientific research can confirm this, i suppose that dwarves do not have the same dna as humans, and women also produce the hormone which causes beard to grow. I am not a pogonologist anyway and I could be wrong. [[User:Wagawaga|Wagawaga]] 20:28, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

::Yes, they have beards too. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 22:39, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

:::This is why human diplomats are trained NEVER to ask a dwarf where all the female dwarves are. They are ALL AROUND YOU. The bearded wonder who escorted you in? Female. The heavily-bearded noble you met to discuss imports with? Also female. The hammerer? Yup. Male and female dwarves look and sound the same to most humans, and the problem is compounded by the fact that most dwarven names are applied to both males and females.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 22:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

::::The only problem is how dwarves tell what gender other dwarves are. Allegedly, it occurs behind closed doors, where both parties lift thy garmits at once, for a brief second, to distinguish themselves before sex.--[[User:Heliman|Heliman]] 02:48, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

:::::Read "Feet of Clay", "The Fifth Elephant", and "Thud!" by Terry Pratchet, for a insight into dwarf culture and lols.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 07:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

The question is still not answered. ToadyOne said in one of the DF Talks that the female dwarves in the upcoming versions won't have beards. Hopefully, that'll change. [[User:MC Dirty|MC Dirty]] 23:57, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

== Carp joke no longer fitting? ==

Seeing as carp are fixed (unless you mod it back in for extra [[fun]] or are using old versions), doesn't the carp joke lose meaning and become un-funny?
:Though carp don't gain swimming skill anymore, they're still quite dangerous - they can attack dwarves standing at the edge of the river, and they are more than capable of doing significant damage. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:26, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
::No they don't, I double checked in the Raw file and carp do as much (Read: little) damage as ANY other fish. Are you using a old version maybe?
:::I set a fisherdwarf to work near a small pond inhabited by 5 carp (and nothing else). As he walked along the edge, one of the carp bit at him and he dodged into the water and was subsequently torn apart by the carp. By the time he died, there were ''thirty-six'' Dwarf chunks in the water, along with a '''severed left lower leg''', and one of the carp had been given a name. As I ordered all of my other dwarves to go fishing in said pond, they were also attacked and died rather quickly - the last one had both his throat and left eye torn out. While they may not be deadly in a river (they seem to prefer to flee), in a pond they will consider themselves to be cornered and will attack with surprising strength (note that they still do 1-'''6''' bite damage, so they haven't been entirely fixed). Also, please '''sign your comments''' (by placing <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> at the end, and ideally by first creating a user account and logging in). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:09, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
:::As a side note, the fact that carp do the same damage as other fish does not mean that they are weak, but rather that '''all''' (non-vermin) fish are dangerous - carp are just the most well known, because while a [[pike (fish)|pike]] or [[longnose gar]] is definitely dangerous (they both have lots of teeth), a mere carp shouldn't be anywhere near as powerful. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:53, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Actually, many fish are much larger than carp. The river fish are [[longnose gar]], [[carp]], [[tigerfish]] and [[pike (fish)|pike]]. Both pike and longnose gar are larger than carp, but carp show up in clusters, unlike the other two. Tigerfish are as large as carp and also show up in clusters, but they are much rarer. 
:::So, in other words: Carp are still the most dangerous river fish. [[User:MC Dirty|MC Dirty]] 23:55, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

== Ocean fishing ==

I can't seem to get my dwarves to fish in the ocean. Is there some special technique required to accomplish this, like a pier? (As a sidenote, my pier appears totally ineffective!) If so, I think it should be documented here or on the ocean page, or both. --[[Special:Contributions/24.20.44.252|24.20.44.252]] 02:01, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Fishing

2010-03-02T23:55:00Z

MC Dirty: /* Carp joke no longer fitting? */

Most of this was taken from the old wiki as it all seems applicable here. Whether or not fish can be depleted or not I do not know - at this point it seems that the turtle supply is endless.--[[User:Decanter|Decanter]] 05:03, 7 November 2007 (EST)

:I had a 'there is nothing to catch in the swamps' message a few times. so it is possible to deplete all the fish in a pond, but haven't been able to get rid of all the fish. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 06:40, 7 November 2007 (EST)

Does anyone with more experience than I know what make (or made) Carp so dangerous? In 0.27.169.33a and previous, swimming creatures would gain incredible attributes due to gaining experience by swimming all the time, which would obviously make combat more dangerous. In the latest version (0.27.169.33b) though, innate swimmers no longer gain swim skill, which sounds like it would make fish rather less dangerous.--[[User:Kmgraba|Kmgraba]] 22:37, 18 November 2007 (EST)

:Carps aren't really dangerous versus a soldier who can swim (my first 125 kills were carps,longnose gars and lampreys in adventure mode), but they can easily drag an unarmed untrained fisherdwarf into water and drown him. [[User:Wagawaga|Wagawaga]] 20:23, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

== Useful stuff to add to article. ==

Are brooks fishable? Streams? Are swamps depleted permanently or temporarily? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:24, 13 November 2007 (EST)
:Brooks are fishable and can be depleted. Swamps, brooks and artificial underground lakes are depleted temporarily. When any biome becomes depleted - a fishing zone anywhere near the water in that biome shows that there are 0 (zero) squares suitable for fishing.
:Also of notice is that the swamp will only repopulate with turtles/whatever was there in the first time even if you connect it to brook with other fish by a channel.
:My question now is whether the amount to be fished out before depletion is correlated with the amount of tiles with water or does every biome have a fixed amount preset on map generation?--[[User:Another|Another]] 11:07, 13 November 2007 (EST)

::I'd have to say it's at least partially connected to the amount of water; I have 3 different fortresses right now and the one with the fewest lakes definitely gets depleted more commonly, and faster, than the rest of the maps. I haven't ruled out the confound of the biome itself; perhaps there is a larger amount on biomes like swamp, and they also have more water. Anyone know if making lakes larger, or making your own artificial lakes helps with depletion? -Gotthard

== Frozen rivers ==

Can you fish a frozen river / lake?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:21, 6 January 2008 (EST)

== Fishing in caves ==

Is it a problem to fish in a underwater lake filled with snakemen and lizardmen?
I'd guess they could be fished and kill off the dwarf...
I kinda wanta catch em like pokemon.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 15:33, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

:It is okay as long as you have some soldiers or traps near the fisherdwarf... at least if you care about his life. [[User:Wagawaga|Wagawaga]] 20:20, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

== Fishing is the labor used to catch fish. ==

"Fishing is the labor used to catch fish."
This is somewhat inaccurate. When I asked on [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25736.0 the forum], I was told that what you catch is unrelated to the actual number of fish in the river. The river can apparently be depleted when you can see fish vermin in it. Perhaps this should be changed to saying that fishing creates raw fish. [[User:DanielLC|DanielLC]] 14:53, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

== Fishing Indoors ==
How large of an artificial lake or murky pool must you make in order for it to be a functional fishing spot? Can you fish through grates, bars or hatches? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 17:50, 31 January 2009 (EST)

:I had a fisherdwarf fishing in a 1-square inside pool so i suppose that as long as you can designate an area as "fishing area" you can take fish out of it. You can fish through hatches, i can confirm this, i dont know through bars and grates. [[User:Wagawaga|Wagawaga]] 20:20, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

== Research on fish depletion, use of bars (and presumably grates), biome impact ==

Take a look at http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=32555.msg475330#msg475330. I've posted the results of some fishing tests there.

Important conclusions:

-Fish are sourced from biomes.

-Biome fish stocks appear to reset every season.

-Rivers/streams/brooks have their own "biome fish counter" independent of the actual biome the river's passing through.

-Otherwise, the game looks at where the water tile you're fishing from is, and then figures out which biome it's associated with. The nature of surrounding tiles (i.e. is this a pond, or a channel off a river, or a bucket-filled pit) is immaterial.

-The creation of fish at the completion of a successful fishing attempt is abstracted. The presence or absence of actual fish vermin (or actual fish creatures, e.g. carp) is immaterial.

-Dwarves can fish through horizontal bars, but building them is finicky. Read the full post linked above. [[User:Kethas|Kethas]] 03:24, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

== Female Fisherdwarves? ==
How do they fish without a beard? [[User:DeadlyLintRoller|DeadlyLintRoller]] 01:23, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

:Though no scientific research can confirm this, i suppose that dwarves do not have the same dna as humans, and women also produce the hormone which causes beard to grow. I am not a pogonologist anyway and I could be wrong. [[User:Wagawaga|Wagawaga]] 20:28, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

::Yes, they have beards too. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 22:39, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

:::This is why human diplomats are trained NEVER to ask a dwarf where all the female dwarves are. They are ALL AROUND YOU. The bearded wonder who escorted you in? Female. The heavily-bearded noble you met to discuss imports with? Also female. The hammerer? Yup. Male and female dwarves look and sound the same to most humans, and the problem is compounded by the fact that most dwarven names are applied to both males and females.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 22:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

::::The only problem is how dwarves tell what gender other dwarves are. Allegedly, it occurs behind closed doors, where both parties lift thy garmits at once, for a brief second, to distinguish themselves before sex.--[[User:Heliman|Heliman]] 02:48, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

:::::Read "Feet of Clay", "The Fifth Elephant", and "Thud!" by Terry Pratchet, for a insight into dwarf culture and lols.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 07:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

== Carp joke no longer fitting? ==

Seeing as carp are fixed (unless you mod it back in for extra [[fun]] or are using old versions), doesn't the carp joke lose meaning and become un-funny?
:Though carp don't gain swimming skill anymore, they're still quite dangerous - they can attack dwarves standing at the edge of the river, and they are more than capable of doing significant damage. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:26, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
::No they don't, I double checked in the Raw file and carp do as much (Read: little) damage as ANY other fish. Are you using a old version maybe?
:::I set a fisherdwarf to work near a small pond inhabited by 5 carp (and nothing else). As he walked along the edge, one of the carp bit at him and he dodged into the water and was subsequently torn apart by the carp. By the time he died, there were ''thirty-six'' Dwarf chunks in the water, along with a '''severed left lower leg''', and one of the carp had been given a name. As I ordered all of my other dwarves to go fishing in said pond, they were also attacked and died rather quickly - the last one had both his throat and left eye torn out. While they may not be deadly in a river (they seem to prefer to flee), in a pond they will consider themselves to be cornered and will attack with surprising strength (note that they still do 1-'''6''' bite damage, so they haven't been entirely fixed). Also, please '''sign your comments''' (by placing <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> at the end, and ideally by first creating a user account and logging in). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:09, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
:::As a side note, the fact that carp do the same damage as other fish does not mean that they are weak, but rather that '''all''' (non-vermin) fish are dangerous - carp are just the most well known, because while a [[pike (fish)|pike]] or [[longnose gar]] is definitely dangerous (they both have lots of teeth), a mere carp shouldn't be anywhere near as powerful. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:53, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Actually, many fish are much larger than carp. The river fish are [[longnose gar]], [[carp]], [[tigerfish]] and [[pike (fish)|pike]]. Both pike and longnose gar are larger than carp, but carp show up in clusters, unlike the other two. Tigerfish are as large as carp and also show up in clusters, but they are much rarer. 
:::So, in other words: Carp are still the most dangerous river fish. [[User:MC Dirty|MC Dirty]] 23:55, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

== Ocean fishing ==

I can't seem to get my dwarves to fish in the ocean. Is there some special technique required to accomplish this, like a pier? (As a sidenote, my pier appears totally ineffective!) If so, I think it should be documented here or on the ocean page, or both. --[[Special:Contributions/24.20.44.252|24.20.44.252]] 02:01, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Fishing

2010-03-02T23:54:39Z

MC Dirty: /* Carp joke no longer fitting? */

Most of this was taken from the old wiki as it all seems applicable here. Whether or not fish can be depleted or not I do not know - at this point it seems that the turtle supply is endless.--[[User:Decanter|Decanter]] 05:03, 7 November 2007 (EST)

:I had a 'there is nothing to catch in the swamps' message a few times. so it is possible to deplete all the fish in a pond, but haven't been able to get rid of all the fish. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 06:40, 7 November 2007 (EST)

Does anyone with more experience than I know what make (or made) Carp so dangerous? In 0.27.169.33a and previous, swimming creatures would gain incredible attributes due to gaining experience by swimming all the time, which would obviously make combat more dangerous. In the latest version (0.27.169.33b) though, innate swimmers no longer gain swim skill, which sounds like it would make fish rather less dangerous.--[[User:Kmgraba|Kmgraba]] 22:37, 18 November 2007 (EST)

:Carps aren't really dangerous versus a soldier who can swim (my first 125 kills were carps,longnose gars and lampreys in adventure mode), but they can easily drag an unarmed untrained fisherdwarf into water and drown him. [[User:Wagawaga|Wagawaga]] 20:23, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

== Useful stuff to add to article. ==

Are brooks fishable? Streams? Are swamps depleted permanently or temporarily? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:24, 13 November 2007 (EST)
:Brooks are fishable and can be depleted. Swamps, brooks and artificial underground lakes are depleted temporarily. When any biome becomes depleted - a fishing zone anywhere near the water in that biome shows that there are 0 (zero) squares suitable for fishing.
:Also of notice is that the swamp will only repopulate with turtles/whatever was there in the first time even if you connect it to brook with other fish by a channel.
:My question now is whether the amount to be fished out before depletion is correlated with the amount of tiles with water or does every biome have a fixed amount preset on map generation?--[[User:Another|Another]] 11:07, 13 November 2007 (EST)

::I'd have to say it's at least partially connected to the amount of water; I have 3 different fortresses right now and the one with the fewest lakes definitely gets depleted more commonly, and faster, than the rest of the maps. I haven't ruled out the confound of the biome itself; perhaps there is a larger amount on biomes like swamp, and they also have more water. Anyone know if making lakes larger, or making your own artificial lakes helps with depletion? -Gotthard

== Frozen rivers ==

Can you fish a frozen river / lake?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:21, 6 January 2008 (EST)

== Fishing in caves ==

Is it a problem to fish in a underwater lake filled with snakemen and lizardmen?
I'd guess they could be fished and kill off the dwarf...
I kinda wanta catch em like pokemon.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 15:33, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

:It is okay as long as you have some soldiers or traps near the fisherdwarf... at least if you care about his life. [[User:Wagawaga|Wagawaga]] 20:20, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

== Fishing is the labor used to catch fish. ==

"Fishing is the labor used to catch fish."
This is somewhat inaccurate. When I asked on [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25736.0 the forum], I was told that what you catch is unrelated to the actual number of fish in the river. The river can apparently be depleted when you can see fish vermin in it. Perhaps this should be changed to saying that fishing creates raw fish. [[User:DanielLC|DanielLC]] 14:53, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

== Fishing Indoors ==
How large of an artificial lake or murky pool must you make in order for it to be a functional fishing spot? Can you fish through grates, bars or hatches? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 17:50, 31 January 2009 (EST)

:I had a fisherdwarf fishing in a 1-square inside pool so i suppose that as long as you can designate an area as "fishing area" you can take fish out of it. You can fish through hatches, i can confirm this, i dont know through bars and grates. [[User:Wagawaga|Wagawaga]] 20:20, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

== Research on fish depletion, use of bars (and presumably grates), biome impact ==

Take a look at http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=32555.msg475330#msg475330. I've posted the results of some fishing tests there.

Important conclusions:

-Fish are sourced from biomes.

-Biome fish stocks appear to reset every season.

-Rivers/streams/brooks have their own "biome fish counter" independent of the actual biome the river's passing through.

-Otherwise, the game looks at where the water tile you're fishing from is, and then figures out which biome it's associated with. The nature of surrounding tiles (i.e. is this a pond, or a channel off a river, or a bucket-filled pit) is immaterial.

-The creation of fish at the completion of a successful fishing attempt is abstracted. The presence or absence of actual fish vermin (or actual fish creatures, e.g. carp) is immaterial.

-Dwarves can fish through horizontal bars, but building them is finicky. Read the full post linked above. [[User:Kethas|Kethas]] 03:24, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

== Female Fisherdwarves? ==
How do they fish without a beard? [[User:DeadlyLintRoller|DeadlyLintRoller]] 01:23, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

:Though no scientific research can confirm this, i suppose that dwarves do not have the same dna as humans, and women also produce the hormone which causes beard to grow. I am not a pogonologist anyway and I could be wrong. [[User:Wagawaga|Wagawaga]] 20:28, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

::Yes, they have beards too. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 22:39, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

:::This is why human diplomats are trained NEVER to ask a dwarf where all the female dwarves are. They are ALL AROUND YOU. The bearded wonder who escorted you in? Female. The heavily-bearded noble you met to discuss imports with? Also female. The hammerer? Yup. Male and female dwarves look and sound the same to most humans, and the problem is compounded by the fact that most dwarven names are applied to both males and females.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 22:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

::::The only problem is how dwarves tell what gender other dwarves are. Allegedly, it occurs behind closed doors, where both parties lift thy garmits at once, for a brief second, to distinguish themselves before sex.--[[User:Heliman|Heliman]] 02:48, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

:::::Read "Feet of Clay", "The Fifth Elephant", and "Thud!" by Terry Pratchet, for a insight into dwarf culture and lols.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 07:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

== Carp joke no longer fitting? ==

Seeing as carp are fixed (unless you mod it back in for extra [[fun]] or are using old versions), doesn't the carp joke lose meaning and become un-funny?
:Though carp don't gain swimming skill anymore, they're still quite dangerous - they can attack dwarves standing at the edge of the river, and they are more than capable of doing significant damage. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:26, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
::No they don't, I double checked in the Raw file and carp do as much (Read: little) damage as ANY other fish. Are you using a old version maybe?
:::I set a fisherdwarf to work near a small pond inhabited by 5 carp (and nothing else). As he walked along the edge, one of the carp bit at him and he dodged into the water and was subsequently torn apart by the carp. By the time he died, there were ''thirty-six'' Dwarf chunks in the water, along with a '''severed left lower leg''', and one of the carp had been given a name. As I ordered all of my other dwarves to go fishing in said pond, they were also attacked and died rather quickly - the last one had both his throat and left eye torn out. While they may not be deadly in a river (they seem to prefer to flee), in a pond they will consider themselves to be cornered and will attack with surprising strength (note that they still do 1-'''6''' bite damage, so they haven't been entirely fixed). Also, please '''sign your comments''' (by placing <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> at the end, and ideally by first creating a user account and logging in). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:09, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
:::As a side note, the fact that carp do the same damage as other fish does not mean that they are weak, but rather that '''all''' (non-vermin) fish are dangerous - carp are just the most well known, because while a [[pike (fish)|pike]] or [[longnose gar]] is definitely dangerous (they both have lots of teeth), a mere carp shouldn't be anywhere near as powerful. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 15:53, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Actually, many fish are much larger than carp. The river fish are [[longnose gar]], [[carp]], [[tigerfish]] and [[pike (fish)|pike]]. Both pike and longnose gar are larger than carp, but carp show up in clusters, unlike the other two. Tigerfish are as large as carp and also show up in clusters, but they are much rarer. 
So, in other words: Carp are still the most dangerous river fish.

== Ocean fishing ==

I can't seem to get my dwarves to fish in the ocean. Is there some special technique required to accomplish this, like a pier? (As a sidenote, my pier appears totally ineffective!) If so, I think it should be documented here or on the ocean page, or both. --[[Special:Contributions/24.20.44.252|24.20.44.252]] 02:01, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

40d:Flood

2010-03-02T23:31:45Z

MC Dirty: /* Building the well above the level of the river */

Flooding generally refers to water getting loose and spreading out over an area, usually in an unregulated fashion. While this can be useful in creating plots of muddy ground for [[farming]], deliberately setting any amount of water loose in an area is risky at best, and at worst, will result in lots of [[fun#Flooding_accidents|fun]].

As in real life, water will seek to spread out given open space. In Dwarf Fortress, this means that water will spread until all tiles achieve a depth of 1/7, or it fills the space it is enclosed in. Water at a depth of 1/7 will eventually evaporate, leaving behind a muddy floor. Because of this, it would be nearly impossible to ruin a fortress with water from finite sources such as a [[murky pool|murky pool]]. Note, however, that [[river]]s, [[brook]]s, and [[ocean]]s are considered to have offscreen water sources; their supply has been observed to be infinite, as has that of [[aquifers]]. Tapping into one of these without some means of regulating the flow is almost certain to result in [[fun#Flooding_accidents|fun]].

Water movement is a major source of lag in the game.

Flood speed is counterintuitive. For example, if you build a ramp beneath the bottom of an [[underground pool]] connected to a large drainage shaft leading to a chasm, all the water in the upper levels of the pool will drain down into the drainage shaft leading all the way out into the chasm, filling it all nearly instantly 7/7 with water and submerging your hapless dwarves however far away in the shaft they may be. But once the space is filled, the flood slows down to the glacial pace at which water usually moves down tunnels, giving them plenty of time to drown.

== How to flood a fortress ==
{{D for Dwarf}}
So all your friends on the forums are recounting tales of the fortresses they've flooded, and you're feeling left out. Fret no more! In a few simple steps, you too can join the ranks of the hydrologically challenged.

The key is to tap into a renewable source of water, such as a river, and use its water [[pressure]] to overcome obstacles like distance or altitude. Remember that water always "wants" to rise back up to 1 [[Z-axis|Z-level]] below from which it originated!

Side view:
▒≈≈river≈≈ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒o <--well ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ (well is optional)
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ channel ▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ your fortress ▒
In this design, water will travel from the river through the channel, then '''up''' through the well and across and down into the rest of the fortress. For convenience, the vertical openings don't even need to be completely hollow chambers--ramps and stairs will work just as well!

If some of the levels that you need to flood are higher than the surface of the river, you can use [[screw pump]]s to compensate.
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
pumps--> %%_ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒o <--well ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ (well is optional)
▒_%% ▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
%% ▒ channel ▒▒▒ your fortress
▒≈≈river≈≈▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
Ordinarily, this above-river fortress would have been unfloodable, but with judicious application of pumps, the water can flow from a higher level than its original source, allowing it to engulf all of your precious bedrooms, workshops, and stockpiles.

=== Common pitfalls ===
==== Building the well above the level of the river ====
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒o <--well ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ (well is optional)
▒≈≈river≈≈ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ channel ▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ your fortress ▒
In this failed flooding attempt, the water moves through the channel but only rises to the level immediately ''below'' the well. This means that the well will be usable and the fortress remains safe and dry. If you were to [[dam]] the river, however, this method would be successful. Be warned that [[ice|freezing water]] and everything else disconnecting the water from the end of the river but not from the source will have the same effect.

==== Re-pressurization with pumps ====
▒≈≈river≈≈ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒o <--well ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ (well is optional)
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ %% <--pump ▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ your fortress ▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒
Here, the reckless placement of a pump blocks water from flowing directly through; instead, the water level is again "reset" to the same level as the pump, and the well will be safe to use. Our condolences to this fort's pathetically dry dwarves.

==== Using diagonal tunnels ====
▒≈≈river≈≈ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒o <--well ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ (well is optional)
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ channel ▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ your fortress ▒

top view:
▒≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈▒▒▒▒▒▒ o ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
Be sure not to get lazy and dig tunnels that are connected only diagonally. Like the use of pumps above, this will prevent water pressure from propagating.

==== Using doors and hatches ====
▒≈≈river≈≈ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒o _<-- hatch ▒▒▒▒▒ (well is optional)
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ channel ▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ┼ <-- door ▒
Although this attempt to flood the fortress will have some success, it will be heavily impeded by the presence of doors and floor hatches. These nefarious devices admit the passage of water only when open, making it likely that a large part of the fortress will remain dry. Avoid using them.

[[Category:FAQ - Water]][[Category:Physics]]

Main Page/Quote

2010-03-02T23:11:13Z

MC Dirty:

{{Choose|c={{rand|96}}
|I can't put my finger on it. Something about this [[Fire|‼]]Cat tallow roast[[Fire|‼]] tastes funny.
|Toady withdraws from society. Toady has begun a [[Strange_mood|mysterious]] construction!
|Let us never forget the last words of Inod the Stoker, [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fortress_Paintrag#1056 "Aaah! Gorillas!"]
|[[Children|Newborn]] Zuglar Baldnessgranite prefers to consume Gorilla. A sure sign of his unparalleled strength!
|[http://www.somethingawful.com/d/video-game-article/duke-nukem-image.php In an unrelated article] - I had no idea elephants could bounce that high!
|[[Toady]] looses a roaring laughter, [[Fey|fell]] and terrible! Toady has butchered a spammer!
|The critical question is this''':''' do elf bones yield more crossbow bolts than the average number of bolts necessary to kill an elf?
|"Dwarf Fortress" ... "Like chess, only with short people that can catch on [[fire]] like [[clothing|rags]] soaked in tar, and lots of [[booze]]." ... "Like chess."
|Dwarf Fortress has taught me that all the world's problems would be substantially reduced had our parent civilizations never minted more than four stacks of [[coins]].
|[[Booze]] does all the work in forts. Dwarves are just booze exoskeletons.
|My unconscious and bleeding [[mayor]] just mandated the construction of some goods.
|I can just imagine a wagon throwing a tantrum and tossing all its contents at people.
|Döbesh Udosdeb has been ecstatic lately. He was forced to eat a friend to survive. He enjoyed a truly decadent meal.
|Iron [[screw pump]] exercise equipment. Pump iron and get superdwarvenly strong!
|The violence, aggression, pain, madness, sadness of the ASCII characters never ceases to amaze me...
|Wait, you're MAKING animals? —''Torak'' At this moment, yes, I am smelting cows. —''Spiders Everywhere''
|"Didn't you read the manual? He he he he... the manual... ..." --[[Toady One]]
|(Compared to real-world years) Dwarven years are shorter. --Sowelu Very fitting to dwarves, I must add. --Sean Mirrsen
|[[Magma]] is not a [[water]] source. Dwarves can't drink it or supply it to their wounded. --[[User:AlienChickenPie|AlienChickenPie]]
|"<nowiki>[B]</nowiki>oats are the enemy of tiles. And tiles are the enemy of boats." --[[Toady One]]
|"I went through and fixed a few places where forbidden/on fire weren't being respected for next time. Burning milkable creatures were still a problem for example." --[[Toady One]]
|"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]
|"What happened in 1048?" "Jreengus occurred."
|Making rock instruments isn't nearly as awesome as it sounds --Shandrunn
|The cyclops I was quested to kill had a thousand year history of badassery, and all of that without the leg it lost in the Year 3 (a dwarf bit it off... I should probably deal with that). --[[Toady One]]
|[FIREIMMUNE] makes them think that [[magma]] is safe but doesn't actually make them fireproof. This can lead to some rather interesting results.
|Endok Cerolneth has begun a mysterious construction!
Endok Cerolneth, Planter has given birth to a girl.
|"Incendia sunt socia vestra, armaque vestra, fortesque Montis Domi." "Magma is your ally, your weapon, the strength of the Mountain-Home." --Eita
|"Stopped people from giving quests to kill themselves." --[[Toady One]]
|"...And I simply doubt we have a need for 7 fishery workers. On top of that, a second soap maker. The hell IS soap?!" --Zero
|"This is a terrible pun. All craftsdwarfship is of the poorest quality." - [http://tinyurl.com/6yruly Soup_alex]
|"The default mental state of a dwarf is madness. Sanity is a temporary condition - a PRIVILEGE you have to EARN!" --[[User:Fedor|Fedor]]
|"Why get normal cats? I buy lolcats in the embark screen. Much more fun to engrave about them." --Yanlin
|"Dwarf Fortress taught me it was okay to make a suit out of my neighbour's skin, as long as I gave it a name."
|"Got rid of world gen crash during succession after death of prolific long-standing position holders with inbred descendants" --[[Toady One]]
|"There was a typo in the siegers' campfire code. When the fires went out, so did the game." --[[Toady One]]
|"Hey, what does that flashing red and orange text mean? What? Why is there smoke everywhere? Oh god, are those BABIES on fire?" --[[User:StrawberryBunny|StrawberryBunny]]
|"It's never 'just a game' when you're losing." --George Carlin (if he played Dwarf Fortress)
|Not that building a bridge out of soap makes much sense to begin with anyway.
|Note that while you cannot milk larger animals yourself, civilizations can still milk animals "off screen" for your benefit.
|Tosid Idenarzes likes tentacle demons for their corrupt intentions. "There! Now we've covered all of the seven deadly sins."
|"Litast Idenudesh, baby, is throwing a tantrum! Inod Litastrilem, Mayor, has lost consciousness. Inod Litastrilem, Mayor, has bled to death."
|"Known bug #780: Town guard becomes a criminal after getting an adventurer's stolen weapon stuck in his body."
|"Udib Toblumaid, Axedwarf, cancels sparring in Barracks: too insane." [[User:Ben jamm1n|Ben jamm1n]]
|Kosoth Cilobonol, Bone Carver cancels Drink: Unconscious.
|Sizir the Snail of Bait is a deity of The Fresh Towers. Sizir most often takes the form of a female dwarf and is associated with jealousy.
|Sibrek Tanbim likes Limestone, Tin, Smoky Quartz, the color crimson, bolts, scepters, anvils, and rock blocks for their lack of quality levels.
|Most vermin teleport, so nothing actually contains them. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]]
|There are 5 articles in category Lore: Armok, Cave Adaptation, Elephant, Philosopher, and Vomit.
|There is nothing to catch in the magma pipe.
|Bug #563: mayor ordered himself beaten for failing to make crystal glass objects
|If cow cheese is made from cow's milk, what is dwarven cheese made of?
|Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn
|"You know, Urist, you've got a mind like an +Ash Trap+."--[[User:Destor|Destor]]
|'''Zander J:''' "Is there a way to stop immigration without setting the population cap?" '''Yanlin:''' "Magma."
|An animal trainer just suddenly stopped working and hid himself in a workshop. He's probably going to make a wardog out of rock and goblin skulls.
|Bug #597: Flying creatures give birth in midair, leading to tragedy.
|'''Urdim Kutamèrith, Pump Operator, has created Rakusttenshed, a Glumprong blowgun!''' Urdim, you are a freaking idiot.
|<Forkez> I don't get the game, but I do get that tunnels flooded with water is a bad thing.
|"If you give a dwarf a fire, he will be warm for a night. If you set a dwarf on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life."
|"Since the Elves said they won't let me cut down any trees, I bought 50 of their logs instead."
|Do not make a trading race that breathes fire. I REPEAT, DON'T!! EVER!!
|Dwarf Fortress: Because burning elves are funny.
|The carp has drowned.
|There's one thing a dwarf needs, and that's stones. And alcohol... and magma... but mainly stones.
|"I swear to god once I saw a dwarf who was labeled as being Strong, Very Agile, Very Tough... and ''Clean''. But it was probably just a bad dream."
|Urist McRandy has been ecstatic lately. He brought somebody to bed lately.
|"Dwarven children kidnapped and incorporated into goblin society might sh... shave." --Toady One
|Bug #871: babies fall to death when born on stairs
|Bug #1031: a merchant pack animal caught at an old dwarf site during adv mode was wearing a full set of clothes
|"[[Magma]] solves everything. [[Fire]] just ruins the [[booze]]." -sonerohi
|You can't yet strangle people with the exposed guts, though I suppose that's now within reach. --[[Toady One]]
|Look, there are roving clumps of sentient lava outside, ... This isn't going to get better. --PTTG??
|...and the only surviving dwarf is a noble who has mandated the construction of crowns and clear glass items to the empty halls. --PTTG??
|Adil Idenlocun is conflicted: "When possible he prefers to consume purring maggot, Dwarven ale and Dwarven syrup. He absolutely detests purring maggots."
|"I had to leave just before I tested the dwarf with the boiling gold blood." -- Toady the Great One
|Urdim Zatinod has been quite content lately. She has lost an annoying friend to tragedy lately.
|I added two levers. One opens the magma. The other sets free all the cats. --Someone in Headshoots
|"As Manbaspecut, Human Merchant is stricken by melancholy!" "Muskox has gone stark raving mad!" I think something is wrong with the human caravan...
|"Somebody needs to build an active volcano inside a fortress inside an active volcano." --Boksi
|It has stats. It can be killed.
|Bug #432: Bones pop out of coffins.
|Thanks. I wish I had known that about three forts ago.
|If I remembered what the fucking lever did, I'd pull it! <...pulls lever anyway...>
|Sarvesh Ralrubal likes olivine, olivine and olivine.
|"So let me get this straight. We managed to destroy a dwarven civilization while only managing a single town??"
|Kara Mase, the Glory of Amusing: Engraved on the wall is an image of a dwarf and an elf. The dwarf is committing a depraved act on the elf.
|Once saw a water skin with red beryl spikes. I still wonder how you would drink from that.
|Watching a kobold thief be chased by batman is very satisfying.
|Kol Tölunimush has been ecstatic lately. He killed somebody by accident while sparring recently. He took joy in slaughter lately. He has lost a lover to tragedy lately. He has witnessed death. He had a satisfying sparring session recently.
|You haven't embarked on a quest - you've joined a religion. --Quietust
|The alert statuses (i.e., "Stay Indoors") have been entirely redone. You may set several custom alerts with user defined [[reactions]].
|There was kind of a violent explosion of boiling human blood when I was testing a human vs a magma man in the arena... it was a little weird, but I guess that's okay. --[[Toady One]]
|Mew? Chop!
|'They're firing arrows at us! Quickly! Raise the babies!!' -Urdim McSquadLeader, mother of 8
|::facepalm:: Thanks. I wish I had known that about three forts ago.
}}<noinclude>[[Category:Humor and stories]]</noinclude>

Main Page/Quote

2010-03-02T23:09:29Z

MC Dirty:

{{Choose|c={{rand|95}}
|I can't put my finger on it. Something about this [[Fire|‼]]Cat tallow roast[[Fire|‼]] tastes funny.
|Toady withdraws from society. Toady has begun a [[Strange_mood|mysterious]] construction!
|Let us never forget the last words of Inod the Stoker, [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fortress_Paintrag#1056 "Aaah! Gorillas!"]
|[[Children|Newborn]] Zuglar Baldnessgranite prefers to consume Gorilla. A sure sign of his unparalleled strength!
|[http://www.somethingawful.com/d/video-game-article/duke-nukem-image.php In an unrelated article] - I had no idea elephants could bounce that high!
|[[Toady]] looses a roaring laughter, [[Fey|fell]] and terrible! Toady has butchered a spammer!
|The critical question is this''':''' do elf bones yield more crossbow bolts than the average number of bolts necessary to kill an elf?
|"Dwarf Fortress" ... "Like chess, only with short people that can catch on [[fire]] like [[clothing|rags]] soaked in tar, and lots of [[booze]]." ... "Like chess."
|Dwarf Fortress has taught me that all the world's problems would be substantially reduced had our parent civilizations never minted more than four stacks of [[coins]].
|[[Booze]] does all the work in forts. Dwarves are just booze exoskeletons.
|My unconscious and bleeding [[mayor]] just mandated the construction of some goods.
|I can just imagine a wagon throwing a tantrum and tossing all its contents at people.
|Döbesh Udosdeb has been ecstatic lately. He was forced to eat a friend to survive. He enjoyed a truly decadent meal.
|Iron [[screw pump]] exercise equipment. Pump iron and get superdwarvenly strong!
|The violence, aggression, pain, madness, sadness of the ASCII characters never ceases to amaze me...
|Wait, you're MAKING animals? —''Torak'' At this moment, yes, I am smelting cows. —''Spiders Everywhere''
|"Didn't you read the manual? He he he he... the manual... ..." --[[Toady One]]
|(Compared to real-world years) Dwarven years are shorter. --Sowelu Very fitting to dwarves, I must add. --Sean Mirrsen
|[[Magma]] is not a [[water]] source. Dwarves can't drink it or supply it to their wounded. --[[User:AlienChickenPie|AlienChickenPie]]
|"<nowiki>[B]</nowiki>oats are the enemy of tiles. And tiles are the enemy of boats." --[[Toady One]]
|"I went through and fixed a few places where forbidden/on fire weren't being respected for next time. Burning milkable creatures were still a problem for example." --[[Toady One]]
|"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]
|"What happened in 1048?" "Jreengus occurred."
|Making rock instruments isn't nearly as awesome as it sounds --Shandrunn
|The cyclops I was quested to kill had a thousand year history of badassery, and all of that without the leg it lost in the Year 3 (a dwarf bit it off... I should probably deal with that). --[[Toady One]]
|[FIREIMMUNE] makes them think that [[magma]] is safe but doesn't actually make them fireproof. This can lead to some rather interesting results.
|Endok Cerolneth has begun a mysterious construction!
Endok Cerolneth, Planter has given birth to a girl.
|"Incendia sunt socia vestra, armaque vestra, fortesque Montis Domi." "Magma is your ally, your weapon, the strength of the Mountain-Home." --Eita
|"Stopped people from giving quests to kill themselves." --[[Toady One]]
|"...And I simply doubt we have a need for 7 fishery workers. On top of that, a second soap maker. The hell IS soap?!" --Zero
|"This is a terrible pun. All craftsdwarfship is of the poorest quality." - [http://tinyurl.com/6yruly Soup_alex]
|"The default mental state of a dwarf is madness. Sanity is a temporary condition - a PRIVILEGE you have to EARN!" --[[User:Fedor|Fedor]]
|"Why get normal cats? I buy lolcats in the embark screen. Much more fun to engrave about them." --Yanlin
|"Dwarf Fortress taught me it was okay to make a suit out of my neighbour's skin, as long as I gave it a name."
|"Got rid of world gen crash during succession after death of prolific long-standing position holders with inbred descendants" --[[Toady One]]
|"There was a typo in the siegers' campfire code. When the fires went out, so did the game." --[[Toady One]]
|"Hey, what does that flashing red and orange text mean? What? Why is there smoke everywhere? Oh god, are those BABIES on fire?" --[[User:StrawberryBunny|StrawberryBunny]]
|"It's never 'just a game' when you're losing." --George Carlin (if he played Dwarf Fortress)
|Not that building a bridge out of soap makes much sense to begin with anyway.
|Note that while you cannot milk larger animals yourself, civilizations can still milk animals "off screen" for your benefit.
|Tosid Idenarzes likes tentacle demons for their corrupt intentions. "There! Now we've covered all of the seven deadly sins."
|"Litast Idenudesh, baby, is throwing a tantrum! Inod Litastrilem, Mayor, has lost consciousness. Inod Litastrilem, Mayor, has bled to death."
|"Known bug #780: Town guard becomes a criminal after getting an adventurer's stolen weapon stuck in his body."
|"Udib Toblumaid, Axedwarf, cancels sparring in Barracks: too insane." [[User:Ben jamm1n|Ben jamm1n]]
|Kosoth Cilobonol, Bone Carver cancels Drink: Unconscious.
|Sizir the Snail of Bait is a deity of The Fresh Towers. Sizir most often takes the form of a female dwarf and is associated with jealousy.
|Sibrek Tanbim likes Limestone, Tin, Smoky Quartz, the color crimson, bolts, scepters, anvils, and rock blocks for their lack of quality levels.
|Most vermin teleport, so nothing actually contains them. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]]
|There are 5 articles in category Lore: Armok, Cave Adaptation, Elephant, Philosopher, and Vomit.
|There is nothing to catch in the magma pipe.
|Bug #563: mayor ordered himself beaten for failing to make crystal glass objects
|If cow cheese is made from cow's milk, what is dwarven cheese made of?
|Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn
|"You know, Urist, you've got a mind like an +Ash Trap+."--[[User:Destor|Destor]]
|'''Zander J:''' "Is there a way to stop immigration without setting the population cap?" '''Yanlin:''' "Magma."
|An animal trainer just suddenly stopped working and hid himself in a workshop. He's probably going to make a wardog out of rock and goblin skulls.
|Bug #597: Flying creatures give birth in midair, leading to tragedy.
|'''Urdim Kutamèrith, Pump Operator, has created Rakusttenshed, a Glumprong blowgun!''' Urdim, you are a freaking idiot.
|<Forkez> I don't get the game, but I do get that tunnels flooded with water is a bad thing.
|"If you give a dwarf a fire, he will be warm for a night. If you set a dwarf on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life."
|"Since the Elves said they won't let me cut down any trees, I bought 50 of their logs instead."
|Do not make a trading race that breathes fire. I REPEAT, DON'T!! EVER!!
|Dwarf Fortress: Because burning elves are funny.
|The carp has drowned.
|There's one thing a dwarf needs, and that's stones. And alcohol... and magma... but mainly stones.
|"I swear to god once I saw a dwarf who was labeled as being Strong, Very Agile, Very Tough... and ''Clean''. But it was probably just a bad dream."
|Urist McRandy has been ecstatic lately. He brought somebody to bed lately.
|"Dwarven children kidnapped and incorporated into goblin society might sh... shave." --Toady One
|Bug #871: babies fall to death when born on stairs
|Bug #1031: a merchant pack animal caught at an old dwarf site during adv mode was wearing a full set of clothes
|"[[Magma]] solves everything. [[Fire]] just ruins the [[booze]]." -sonerohi
|You can't yet strangle people with the exposed guts, though I suppose that's now within reach. --[[Toady One]]
|Look, there are roving clumps of sentient lava outside, ... This isn't going to get better. --PTTG??
|...and the only surviving dwarf is a noble who has mandated the construction of crowns and clear glass items to the empty halls. --PTTG??
|Adil Idenlocun is conflicted: "When possible he prefers to consume purring maggot, Dwarven ale and Dwarven syrup. He absolutely detests purring maggots."
|"I had to leave just before I tested the dwarf with the boiling gold blood." -- Toady the Great One
|Urdim Zatinod has been quite content lately. She has lost an annoying friend to tragedy lately.
|I added two levers. One opens the magma. The other sets free all the cats. --Someone in Headshoots
|"As Manbaspecut, Human Merchant is stricken by melancholy!" "Muskox has gone stark raving mad!" I think something is wrong with the human caravan...
|"Somebody needs to build an active volcano inside a fortress inside an active volcano." --Boksi
|It has stats. It can be killed.
|Bug #432: Bones pop out of coffins.
|Thanks. I wish I had known that about three forts ago.
|If I remembered what the fucking lever did, I'd pull it! <...pulls lever anyway...>
|Sarvesh Ralrubal likes olivine, olivine and olivine.
|"So let me get this straight. We managed to destroy a dwarven civilization while only managing a single town??"
|Kara Mase, the Glory of Amusing: Engraved on the wall is an image of a dwarf and an elf. The dwarf is committing a depraved act on the elf.
|Once saw a water skin with red beryl spikes. I still wonder how you would drink from that.
|Watching a kobold thief be chased by batman is very satisfying.
|Kol Tölunimush has been ecstatic lately. He killed somebody by accident while sparring recently. He took joy in slaughter lately. He has lost a lover to tragedy lately. He has witnessed death. He had a satisfying sparring session recently.
|You haven't embarked on a quest - you've joined a religion. --Quietust
|The alert statuses (i.e., "Stay Indoors") have been entirely redone. You may set several custom alerts with user defined [[reactions]].
|There was kind of a violent explosion of boiling human blood when I was testing a human vs a magma man in the arena... it was a little weird, but I guess that's okay. --[[Toady One]]
|Mew? Chop!
|'They're firing arrows at us! Quickly! Raise the babies!!' -Urdim McSquadLeader, mother of 8
}}<noinclude>[[Category:Humor and stories]]</noinclude>

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2010-01-17T15:14:48Z

MC Dirty:

{{Archive|
# [[Talk:Main Page/archive1|Archive 1]]
}}

== World Painter Page ==
The wiki has needed a page on the [[World Painter]] for a while, so I've started one. The information in there is decent, but I'm relatively new to wiki editing, so the formatting probably isn't. If someone wouldn't mind cleaning it up a bit for me I'd really appreciate it. --[[User:Timmeh|Timmeh]] 01:15, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

:Well I don't know if someone helped you already, but it looks fine to me. --[[User:frandude|frandude]]
:I changed the name into World Painter so it looked better (no more petty redirects!) [[User:Inawarminister|Inawarminister]] 12:01, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

== French language wiki ==

Can we have interlanguage links with the [http://www.dwarffortress.fr/wiki/ French wiki]? -[[User:Alan Trick|Alan Trick]] 17:48, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Add a CptnDuck page? ==

Captain Duck is a DF video tutorial maker, which an impressive collection of 40 videos on youtube (and a few extra videos of sieges and arenas and whatnot), and explains how to do most everything, from magma forges to Dwarven justice. He adds humor to it and he's the reason a lot of people understand the game...I think we should give him a page. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Blackdoggie998|Blackdoggie998]]

:As it is insanely easy for anyone to sign up for editing priviledges on this site (I managed to, after all), I see no need to make one for him when he could make one for himself. However, if you wish to add user:CptnDuck, or invite him to make one himself, feel free. He can link to all of his tutorials from his user page. They even be searchable through that lovely little box to the(my) left. (Who knows where it is on your skin.) -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

:P.S. Does it seem odd to you to have it say "unsigned comment by [username]"? Or is that just me? -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, just a little after the previous one.
:: Clicking 'unsigned' gave me all the explanation I need, might want to do the same [[User:Kinzarr|Kinzarr]] 23:27, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

:We don't need a userpage for him, but a page with the assembled listing of all his (and others of equal quality) video tutorials wouldn't be a bad idea at all. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

== Articles on Olivine and other generic stones ==

There is a current discussion as to whether or not [[Olivine]] (and perhaps some few other stones) are duly covered on the current [[stone]] page, or are truly worth having their own article/page. This relates to a larger question of how this wiki is organized, and "What deserves a page" in a general sense. Any interested are encouraged to chime in, if only with a "me too" post pro or con. See [[Talk:Olivine]] for an idea of the issue. I'd like to have the debate move from the specific Olivine page to here since this is a more general issue that affects many potential pages. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 21:29, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:I'm not really sure which way to go on this one. A lot of otherwise useless stones would need their own articles if the guidelines were expanded... and yet, there's a good amount of useful information that's not on the main pages, that would further clutter them if it were added; And permitting more individual pages would solve both those problems. I guess this ends up being a vote both ways, with provisions on each. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:54, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:My vote is, if someone can make it amusing, then sure. If someone is of the bent to enjoy making such a page, then again, sure... otherwise, leave it at the bottom of the pile of "things that someday we might get around to if we feel like it" and don't stress. The relevant data is covered (or will be when someone notices it's not), and everything else is gravy. Beside, what would you rather do, play the game, or figure out how to make a whole page of jokes about how gneiss nice is.... (or did I get that backwards?)... ? --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

::All relevant information is covered, yes. But not necessarily on a relevant page. Before the Olivine page was made you couldn't learn that olivine may contain native platinum from any page related to olivine or stone in general.
::Another example is kaolinite. You can look it up in the table of Other Stone to see it can be found in sedimentary rock. But in order to see that it may itself contain alunite and marcasite you have to go through the entire table (or use the browser search function). Now, in order to see if it may contain anything else, you have to notice the note at the top of the page (just above the table of contents) that points to Metal Ore and Gem, whith another two tables you have to search through. (Kaolinite may contain turquoise). --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 21:44, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:It's not just about "which stones" - it's a larger question of how the wiki is organized and presented. Should each separate and distinct item get its own page, like the current one- or two-line articles on [[vial]]s, [[instrument]]s or [[Restraint|chain]]s, (just as random parallel examples of some [[finished goods]] that have their very own, very short, very dull, and predictably repetitive articles.) Surely the [[Masons guild]] and [[miners guild]] don't deserve or need separate articles. Do we need a separate and largely redundant article for every trap weapon? What about the cookie-cutter articles on ''every'' individual animal? The GCS deserves its own, and many others, but one on each separate type of shark and hunting cat? There is no actual article there, only a template.

:Quivers and bolts are sub-sections of the [[crossbow]] article, and I think that's a ''great'' call. Olivine, talc and kaolinite are merely similar examples, distinct enough to warrant special treatment, but on the borderline of being so small to each only represent a stub. Ultimately, I don't think a functional formal definition would be easily achieved - rather guidelines and a fuzzy target, combining related info into groups with optimal size limitations (both lower end and upper end). Perhaps a template should not be forced on every lesser example, but they could be grouped into a table on their own article, "other stones of note" or "sharks" or "finished goods" or whatever.

:In many ways, our only current guidelines are "what has been done so far" - and that varies widely and wildly. Too often, pages are cobbled onto related ones, or split off just because its a new topic, if a brutally short one. Myself, I'd like to see most related articles of less than 4 lines or so get grouped into larger, more universally informative articles, and anything larger than maybe 5 full sub-sections be considered for splitting up. If an item stands out from the rest, it should stand out somewhere, in an article - but that doesn't mean it has to have its very own, or invite every similar item to do so as well.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 03:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Please check out the (no longer) current [[Chalk]] page and tell me what you think. ... which is to say, it doesn't /have/ to be a stub, does it? It can be rich and detailed and sadly unamusing. It would please me to continue to do all stones in this manner, or another manner of your choosing.... Thus negating fussing over "this one was done this way, that one was done that way" arguments. I'll get to them all, in the order they appear on the [[Stones]] page. ... assuming you guys are ok with that. --[[User:Teres Draconis]] 08:28, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:: P.S. Who's the outpost manager of this place, anyways? I'd like to know to whom I should be pandering. --jaz

::: I think 1) you should take time to read, if not learn the wiki format guidelines, 2) you should sign with your REAL user name, and stop using a pseudonym, and 3) you should not break someone else's post with yours in between their paragraphs. As to the chalk page, I think it's over-enthusiastic and pays no attention to previous article style or formatting precedent - which may be a good thing or a bad thing, depending. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::: 1) You're right, I'm sorry.
::::2) We've discussed user names on [[User_Talk:Teres_Draconis#Naming Conventions|my talks page]]. (Also, <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> still puts "jaz"... why bother with the link when it's just a P.S.?)
::::3) I'm sorry. I was (apparently) trained wrong, and that was a /long/ time ago. I was taught (20 years ago) that when responding, to do so in-line, so that people can tell what the response is actually relating to. (Like an actual conversation, except with a time warp. You say something, I respond, someone else adds, we all move on to the next topic.) It supposedly adds clarity. The style and curtesy rules of such things has changed. I can see I'll need to update myself. Thank you for pointing that out. =)
::::4) I was hasty. I had to have meatspace people explain to me why, as wiki-''writers'', you would not want so much detail on a page. Especially when, with every new game release, any given page on the wiki might need an over haul. I was only looking at it from the end-user perspective of "If I'm looking for information, I don't want a page that just tells me to go look at the three pages I've already looked at. I want a page that reduces the noise of the irrelevant, and distills to just that specific (sub-)topic." I /don't/ see the point of six pages that are identacle except for title, and all only three lines long. If it's got it's own page, it should have it's own page. If it just links back to the three pages that linked to it, and they all link to each other already, what's the point? If the only thing Chalk has going for it is that it's flux, why not just make a note on the [[Stone]] page reading, "These three rocks can be used as flux" and link to the flux page from there? Why should chalk have it's own page, if it's not going to be richly detailed and, you know, informative? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::The templates are there because they are pretty, detailed, and condensed ways to display some key information. Rather than expanding existing information so that it takes up more space, it's more productive to add things that you think are lacking. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:15, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::: I changed the other [[Stones]] table to allow for interesting minerals that are in other[[Stones]] to be posted.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:17, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:What would actually be helpful is a [[Geology]] primer, indicating how layers and inclusions are placed, where, and what the implications of "You have struck XXX" are. I know, now, that if it's olivine, I have a chance of finding veins of native platinum. One good page explaining what all of the geological processes mean would be a lot more useful then all of the various descriptions of exploratory mining. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 22:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::That sounds like a great idea.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:46, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::I agree! But I have no idea how to write it. Most of what I know about geology I learned from looking at the raws. Everything else is "OMG, is that a ''rock''?! I've heard of those!" - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::"More useful" to some, but I agree it would be a great addition. Also, the more I think about it, the more I like what MrDG did with the table in Other Stone - tables could condense any and all small, individual articles into single pages w/ (sortable?) tables where all these various similar objects could be compared/contrasted at a glance. Templates are perfect when there is a lot of various info, but if the different topics (semi-generic stones, animals, finished goods) all differ only in one or two details, and there is just not that many variables to begin with, a Table would be (imo) preferable. ''(And imo that table now covers such stones as Olivine well, to get back to the original example that sparked this discussion.)''

::As an additional example of how current stub-articles could be combined into a simple table, I've made this page - [[Example - some fish]] - which could be a model for such. (A page/table with all the "Sea-creatures" would be more likely approp, but this was faster for now.) It would replace every stub-article on related "generic" items, but any truly noteworthy items would still have their own full articles for expanded information and commentary (here, "carp"). It still has 100% of the prev information, but also allows immediate comparison and contrast, and, if sortable, allows a User to more easily compare relations between similar aspects (like "biome", in this example.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::: Is it possible to put the expandable version of the raw ("game object data (show)" seen at the bottom of the [[carp]] page) inside the table, instead of the whole thing? Or does the one preclude the other? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Actually, if someone finds it easy to extract that information from the .RAWs, I would find that an improvement on what [[Creatures]] currently has. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 17:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::If someone here knows PHP they may be able to write a new wiki hook that pulls information from raw entries. That would make many things much easier. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Which information do you want extracted? I can probably do it for you, but you may have heard, I'm in the doghouse for not paying attention to style and formating rules. =/ Show me what there is, and one example of what you want, and I can probably do it for you with a minimum of stupid questions. ... ''Probably.'' - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::@ jaz, Dec - Did either of you look at this sample table? [[Example - some fish]] Does that cover what you were envisioning? It's just a rough idea - but it could work the same way that the table on the [[stone]] page currently does, to cover all the generic, almost-identical objects. Same w/ finished goods, weapon traps, probably many other sim categories of like items.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I've read this sort of. My view is, wikis add value to the game far more for noobs than they do to legends who have been around since when the z-axis was just an idea. With this in mind, I reckon if everything with a name in the game had an article that would be *A Good Thing* (tm). Just my own opinion, feel free to disagree. Ideally, articles for things like stones should contain a template constructed from the raws, with prose/dialogue manually added.
Even things like [[screw pump]] could have a template driven section, advising what the components are / who makes it etc. Maybe <nowiki>{{building|Building Name|Component 1:Component 1 name|Component X| component X name|Constructed by|trade}}</nowiki> or similar.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 08:45, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:I agree, probably, although that sounds like a lot of work. I think the stone templates and articles could do with a bit of a cleanup and more in-game information. I mostly use the articles to see if there's anything notable about a particular stone and then check out the wikipedia page. Some of the wikipedia links are broken or indirect now because disambiguity pages have been added since. Also, the wikipedia links are right at the bottom of very long boxes listing ores and gems and the like - I suggest adding drop down boxes to the templates that contain all that information but which are minimized by default. Or changing the template so that the wikipedia link wraps around the stone name at the top. --[[User:Harmonica|Harmonica]] 01:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Way late to this party, apologies. Tables are no good (to me) if they aren't sortable. The World Ends With You (a Nintendo DS game) Wikia portal/wiki thing has an ''awesome'' method for adding sortable tables. Some gadget called [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki Semantic MediaWiki] that hooks into the Wiki to automatically pull data out as you request it, then display it in easy-to-read and use sortable tables. The TWEWY Wikia has [http://twewy.wikia.com/wiki/The_World_Ends_With_You:Semantic_MediaWiki a page on it] for their editors, giving a few examples of how powerful it is. Their use of the tool is to easily pull information from a table of 304 items, each containing 30 attributes, to generate lists comparing and compiling various items. Hugely powerful, extremely flexible.

This type of tool would work wonderfully with a PHP RAW parser, or even simple dumps of the RAWs to the Wiki. Think of how easy it would be to update the entire Wiki across the board when new versions come out. New critters? Changes to existing critters? Update the information in one spot and it trickles down through the entire Wiki! That's in addition, of course, to being able to, say, generate tables listing how many bones each creature drops when killed, then sort to see which one drops the most. Pretty sweet stuff.

With some sort of system in place for wading through all the data on the wiki, one wouldn't have to worry about having too much information, right? -- [[User:Blank|Blank]] 04:44, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Particularly for stone, I think that it would be a good idea to describe each individual stone relative to other, similar stones. Let's use [[sandstone]] as an example. Suppose that I read (either in its own article, or in a table) something along the lines of "Sandstone is a [[sedimentary]] layer. Unlike most sedimentary layers, it may contain [[aquifers]] or veins of [[native copper]]." If I already know what a sedimentary layer is (and how it differs from other types of layers), this information will be much easier to process and much more useful than a full list of everything that appears in sandstone. If I have no idea what a sedimentary layer is, this will tell me that there are several sedimentary layers and that they all have many things in common, which is again more useful than a list of everything that appears in sandstone. --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 08:56, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
:That's not the way this (any?) wiki is set up. The idea is that a lesser concept (here, "sandstone") need not include redundant info from a larger, parent concept (here, "sedimentary layer"). If you don't know what a sed'y layer is (or an aquifer or a vein or whatever) you click that link. If, then, you don't know what a "layer" is, you click that link. Sounds good at first, but if every lesser article included an explanation, even a quick synopsis, of the info for all relevant articles on broader, umbrella concepts, the articles, and this wiki as a whole, would explode beyond usefulness. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks for making my point for me. If you look at the current sandstone article, it lists everything contained in sandstone. Looking at just the ores and non-generic stones, we have: Native copper, Hematite, Limonite, Magnetite, Native platinum, Tetrahedrite, Bituminous coal, Lignite, Bauxite. All of these except for native copper appear in every sedimentary layer. That's not even counting all of the generic stone (especially gypsum with its five other types of generic stone contained in it) and (mostly low-value) gems. 95% of the text in this article is redundant, and could easily be summarized by "This layer is exactly like every other sedimentary layer except for these two differences". --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 09:06, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Ah - ''that's'' your point. (When you said "describe", I thought you were advocating a narrative commentary on and verbal expansion of the info included in the sidebar.) When I was talking about not having redundant info, I was talking text - which is quite terse in this case, exactly because of the point you make. Those sidebars were designed to encapsulate the key info, an "at a glance" sort of thing, to avoid exactly what you're talking about in narrative form. Are the sidebars redundant? Often, yes. But they are the style this wiki has adopted for ''all'' stone. So you're talking not just about changing sed'y layers, but the style approach to all stone, since they would not then be consistent across the board. (Not how I would have personally designed the layout, but it's there and it works, and well. Any stone, same layout, same info in the same place, bam got it.) And when discussing presentation and usability issues, any article has to be taken both individually and in the context of others "like" it - here, any "stone" article is the same layout, the same info at a glance, which (for now) trumps whatever redundancies exist. Perhaps a quick line such as you're stating would go well, since there is, indeed, very little unique to say about any one sub-type of sedimentary layer, and that is info in and of itself. (Take a look at any [[igneous extrusive]] except obsidian for something similar.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

A lot of people have been talking a lot of things about reorganizing the information on the stones pages. After browsing around on them for a while, I've found the information to be mostly scattered and difficult to draw conclusions from. For example, I wasn't aware that each geographic stone type had a base list of stones that can appear, while only some of them have a couple of unique stones that may appear along with that list. It wasn't until I began gathering all of that data together for myself, that I found the patterns. I had to work to tie it all together. So, I have a partially completed table of pulldown menus on my user page right now. If anyone's interested they could take a look and tell me what they think? (Yes, I know a lot of it is redundant. I have an idea on how to fix this, but I haven't completely decided yet) --Kydo 13:55, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

== Not a Roguelike ==

Dwarf Fortress only resembles a Roguelike in the sense that everything kills you. ASCII graphics haven't connoted Rogue-resemblance since Diablo came out with modern 3D graphics and was still considered a Roguelike.
[[User:LogicalDash|LogicalDash]] 22:08, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you for Fortress mode, but adventurer mode is rogue like.--[[User:Mjo625|Mjo625]] 22:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

:DF is rogue-like like.[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 08:59, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

LogicalDash, Diablo is in 2D, not 3D. --[[User:612DwarfAvenue|612DwarfAvenue]] 05:10, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

== Link to Add Quotes ==

To get help on how to add quotes to the main page, consult [[Talk:Main Page/Quote|this]] link.

== Incoming New Version ==

Guys. We might as well prepare for the new version that will be coming by the end of the year (maybe). What will need to change? Weapons and armor, the underground stuff... I don't know all of it. But it's extensive. Get ready.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
:Well, we don't know all the details, and names of jobs/items can change before actual release. [[User:Kurokikaze|Kurokikaze]] 16:14, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
:I don't see what this has to do with anything, i guess it's nice of you to tell us. But what do you mean "get ready?"
: Gird your loins, gentlemen. Or something.
::It'll be hard to cover every page - if you edit, try to follow up on links, etc. Might also have to check the "oldest pages" listing to see that they've all been updated (except it's broken atm). The worst currently is that we ''still'' have legacy crap from earlier versions in obscure corners and comments that's not relevant to current version. Bonus.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:11, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
:Are we just changing this wiki? (as opposed to forking with the new version, in case some people keep playing 40d?) [[Special:Contributions/206.45.111.58|206.45.111.58]] 22:39, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
::Forking sounds good to me. But I have no idea how well wikis handle forking. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 14:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

== Interwiki ==

Correct link to Russian DF wiki, please.
Right link = www.dfwk.ru instead current www.dfwiki.ru --[[Special:Contributions/91.192.82.106|91.192.82.106]] 11:43, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
:It's done, so should we delete this conservation? (not that great at wiki myself) [[User:Inawarminister|Inawarminister]] 09:46, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

== Random page ==

Why is "Random page" only bringing me to "Count Consort"? :\ --[[Special:Contributions/99.33.67.9|99.33.67.9]] 22:33, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

== Random images ==

Where are the images on the main page coming from? It's easy to find the quotes, but where are the images? [[User:MC Dirty|MC Dirty]] 15:14, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Main Page/Quote

2009-07-26T21:57:16Z

MC Dirty:

{{Choose|c={{#if: {{{1|}}}|{{rand|83}}|{{#expr: ({{rand2|10}}+73)}} }}
|I can't put my finger on it. Something about this [[Fire|‼]]Cat tallow roast[[Fire|‼]] tastes funny.
|Toady withdraws from society. Toady has begun a [[Strange_mood|mysterious]] construction!
|Let us never forget the last words of Inod the Stoker, [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fortress_Paintrag#1056 "Aaah! Gorillas!"]
|[[Children|Newborn]] Zuglar Baldnessgranite prefers to consume Gorilla. A sure sign of his unparalleled strength!
|[http://www.somethingawful.com/d/video-game-article/duke-nukem-image.php In an unrelated article] - I had no idea elephants could bounce that high!
|[[Toady]] looses a roaring laughter, [[Fey|fell]] and terrible! Toady has butchered a spammer!
|The critical question is this''':''' do elf bones yield more crossbow bolts than the average number of bolts necessary to kill an elf?
|"Dwarf Fortress" ... "Like chess, only with short people that can catch on [[fire]] like [[clothing|rags]] soaked in tar, and lots of [[booze]]." ... "Like chess."
|Dwarf Fortress has taught me that all the world's problems would be substantially reduced had our parent civilizations never minted more than four stacks of [[coins]].
|[[Booze]] does all the work in forts. Dwarves are just booze exoskeletons.
|My unconscious and bleeding [[mayor]] just mandated the construction of some goods.
|I can just imagine a wagon throwing a tantrum and tossing all its contents at people.
|Döbesh Udosdeb has been ecstatic lately. He was forced to eat a friend to survive. He enjoyed a truly decadent meal.
|Iron [[screw pump]] exercise equipment. Pump iron and get superdwarvenly strong!
|The violence, aggression, pain, madness, sadness of the ASCII characters never ceases to amaze me...
|Wait, you're MAKING animals? —''Torak'' At this moment, yes, I am smelting cows. —''Spiders Everywhere''
|"Didn't you read the manual? He he he he... the manual... ..." --[[Toady One]]
|(Compared to real-world years) Dwarven years are shorter. --Sowelu Very fitting to dwarves, I must add. --Sean Mirrsen
|[[Magma]] is not a [[water]] source. Dwarves can't drink it or supply it to their wounded. --[[User:AlienChickenPie|AlienChickenPie]]
|"<nowiki>[B]</nowiki>oats are the enemy of tiles. And tiles are the enemy of boats." --[[Toady One]]
|"I went through and fixed a few places where forbidden/on fire weren't being respected for next time. Burning milkable creatures were still a problem for example." --[[Toady One]]
|"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]
|"What happened in 1048?" "Jreengus occurred."
|Making rock instruments isn't nearly as awesome as it sounds --Shandrunn
|The cyclops I was quested to kill had a thousand year history of badassery, and all of that without the leg it lost in the Year 3 (a dwarf bit it off... I should probably deal with that). --[[Toady One]]
|[FIREIMMUNE] makes them think that [[magma]] is safe but doesn't actually make them fireproof. This can lead to some rather interesting results.
|Endok Cerolneth has begun a mysterious construction!
Endok Cerolneth, Planter has given birth to a girl.
|"Incendia sunt socia vestra, armaque vestra, fortesque Montis Domi." "Magma is your ally, your weapon, the strength of the Mountain-Home." --Eita
|"Stopped people from giving quests to kill themselves." --[[Toady One]]
|"...And I simply doubt we have a need for 7 fishery workers. On top of that, a second soap maker. The hell IS soap?!" --Zero
|"This is a terrible pun. All craftsdwarfship is of the poorest quality." - [http://tinyurl.com/6yruly Soup_alex]
|"The default mental state of a dwarf is madness. Sanity is a temporary condition - a PRIVILEGE you have to EARN!" --[[User:Fedor|Fedor]]
|"Why get normal cats? I buy lolcats in the embark screen. Much more fun to engrave about them." --Yanlin
|"Dwarf Fortress taught me it was okay to make a suit out of my neighbour's skin, as long as I gave it a name."
|"Got rid of world gen crash during succession after death of prolific long-standing position holders with inbred descendants" --[[Toady One]]
|"There was a typo in the siegers' campfire code. When the fires went out, so did the game." --[[Toady One]]
|"Hey, what does that flashing red and orange text mean? What? Why is there smoke everywhere? Oh god, are those BABIES on fire?" --[[User:StrawberryBunny|StrawberryBunny]]
|"It's never 'just a game' when you're losing." --George Carlin (if he played Dwarf Fortress)
|Not that building a bridge out of soap makes much sense to begin with anyway.
|Note that while you cannot milk larger animals yourself, civilizations can still milk animals "off screen" for your benefit.
|Tosid Idenarzes likes tentacle demons for their corrupt intentions. "There! Now we've covered all of the seven deadly sins."
|"Litast Idenudesh, baby, is throwing a tantrum! Inod Litastrilem, Mayor, has lost consciousness. Inod Litastrilem, Mayor, has bled to death."
|"Known bug #780: Town guard becomes a criminal after getting an adventurer's stolen weapon stuck in his body."
|"Udib Toblumaid, Axedwarf, cancels sparring in Barracks: too insane." [[User:Ben jamm1n|Ben jamm1n]]
|Kosoth Cilobonol, Bone Carver cancels Drink: Unconscious.
|Sizir the Snail of Bait is a deity of The Fresh Towers. Sizir most often takes the form of a female dwarf and is associated with jealousy.
|Sibrek Tanbim likes Limestone, Tin, Smoky Quartz, the color crimson, bolts, scepters, anvils, and rock blocks for their lack of quality levels.
|Most vermin teleport, so nothing actually contains them. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]]
|There are 5 articles in category Lore: Armok, Cave Adaptation, Elephant, Philosopher, and Vomit.
|Fixed Bug #888: There was an alligator drunk
|Fixed Bug #563: Mayor ordered himself beaten for failing to make crystal glass
|If cow cheese is made from cow's milk, what is dwarven cheese made of?
|''Belbezevost Närangagak Äkig:'' Goatsects the Raw Red Anus of Stretching
|Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn
|"You know, Urist, you've got a mind like an +Ash Trap+."--[[User:Destor|Destor]]
|'''Zander J:''' "Is there a way to stop immigration without setting the population cap?" '''Yanlin:''' "Magma."
|An animal trainer just suddenly stopped working and hid himself in a workshop. He's probably going to make a wardog out of rock and goblin skulls.
|flying creatures give birth in midair, leading to tragedy
|"Dwarf Fortress: Screw mining for fish, we're fishing for rocks!" -Duke 2.0
|'''Urdim Kutamèrith, Pump Operator, has created Rakusttenshed, a Glumprong blowgun!''' Urdim, you are a freaking idiot.
|<Forkez> I don't get the game, but I do get that tunnels flooded with water is a bad thing.
|"If you give a dwarf a fire, he will be warm for a night. If you set a dwarf on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life."
|"Since the Elves said they won't let me cut down any trees, I bought 50 of their logs instead."
|Do not make a trading race that breathes fire. I REPEAT, DON'T!! EVER!!
|If I ''remembered'' what the &%^#*@! lever did, I'd ''pull'' it! <...pulls lever anyway...>
|The flood just came out of ''nowhere''!!!
|There's one thing a dwarf needs, and that's stones. And alcohol... and magma... but mainly stones.
|Q: "What's the best way to have a single dwarf fight off an entire Orc siege?" 
A: "With a lever."
|"I swear to god once I saw a dwarf who was labeled as being Strong, Very Agile, Very Tough... and ''Clean''. But it was probably just a bad dream."
|"So let me get this straight. We managed to destroy dwarven civilization while only managing a single town??" --alway
|<nowiki>::facepalm::</nowiki> Thanks. I wish I had known that about three forts ago.
|"Dwarven children kidnapped and incorporated into goblin society might sh... shave." --Toady One
|Known Bug: babies fall to death when born on stairs
|Known Bug: civs decorate their items with soil
|Known Bug #1031: Some camels wear full sets of clothing
|"[[Magma]] solves everything. [[Fire]] just ruins the [[booze]]." -sonerohi
|You can't yet strangle people with the exposed guts, though I suppose that's now within reach. --[[Toady One]]
|Look, there are roving clumps of sentient lava outside, ... This isn't going to get better. --PTTG??
|...and the only surviving dwarf is a noble who has mandated the construction of crowns and clear glass items to the empty halls. --PTTG??
|Adil Idenlocun is conflicted: "When possible he prefers to consume purring maggot, Dwarven ale and Dwarven syrup. He absolutely detests purring maggots."
|"I had to leave just before I tested the dwarf with the boiling gold blood." -- Toady the Great One
|Game Features: How much you ''want''? System Requirements: How much you ''got''? -- Aqizzar
|Solon ùstlorbam, Dwarf Ranger: "Life is, in a word, fire."
}}<noinclude>[[Category:Humor and stories]]</noinclude>

40d Talk:Cave-in

2009-03-24T08:48:03Z

MC Dirty: /* Cave-in vs. creatures */

Is this still valid? I recall that only truly disconnected areas cave in these days...

Yeah, this is what I've heard. I'm digging out a bunch of greater than 7x7 rooms now so we'll find out shortly.
--[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 00:26, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:I've dug out some big rooms (10x10 I think is the biggest so far) and not had a cave-in for a season or so. I'm thinking it only does it on disconnects. makes it ALOT easier to plan your fort out. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 00:33, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

::No kidding. What are the chances of accidentally completely disconnecting an area? I think that Toady One is going to continue to tweak the cave-in circumstances, though, so some things that don't cave in now may in later versions. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:56, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

::Sorry, but I don't understand what a disconnected area is. Could you try to explain? [[User:Sinoth|sinoth]] 12:50, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:::A disconnected section doesn't connect to the rest of the map. As far as I know, that means it checks above, below, north, south, east, and west of a block of stone for connecting blocks, and continues checking through them to make sure the section isn't isolated. Toady mentioned something along the lines of it only checking for disconnects around the area you are mining. If the section is isolated, each block of the disconnected section will fall straight down. That's the general idea, I believe, and such disconnects are not easy to create. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 13:12, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

::::I can easily see how to create an isolated support, but how would you create an isolated room? The dwarves would have to get there somehow... Also, wouldn't an isolated room (with nothing on any side of it, including above) be less likely to collapse because there's nothing nearby to collapse into it? --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 13:49, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:::::1. Build a box with constructed walls from the ground.
:::::2. Remove the construction connecting it to the ground.
:::::Also, an isolated room, would ''have'' to collapse, unless we've got anti-gravity-field-generators. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:59, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

:I've mined out several levels underground. Then I dug channels (carefully) around the edge of the top layer. Once the last channel section was finished... bam! Cave-in. Only, it didn't stop at the first level below. It kept going to the last level dug out, taking with it all the loose debris. If there are any BUILDINGS in the region that collapsed, they will break apart. --[[User:AzureLightning|AzureLightning]] 14:04, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

"Don't pay any attention to the information below this line! It is simply a placeholder!" - Why have it there if doesnt need to be? Take it away and re-add when something worthwhile is to be said. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 17:51, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

When building my underground farms with light access I had a lot of collapses but once the room was finished they ceased. There 8 by 8 and three floors down with open air access. I think a collapse happens if you have a room greater the 7x7 horizontally and more than 3 vertically. From what I've observed it seems like it only checks for a collapse every time a square is dug. --[[User:Lucid|Lucid]] 20:57, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

I dug an open pit in a sandy grassland region. The pit was 4x6 and one level below the surface. And yet, somehow I had a cave-in. It was minor, and only knocked my miner out for a few ticks, but I'm still trying to figure out why an open-air pit would register a cave-in. (In addition, nothing actually changed as far as the pit topography.) --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 01:58, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

:If you dig all the way around the edge then that causes a cave in, i.e if you make a C shape and then dig out the remaining wall the center will fall down. This will destroy any buildings underneath.[[User:Jikor|Jikor]]

== Avoiding ==

I removed the 7x7 info until someone can verify that it's relevant in the new version. I'd also be interested to know when rockslides or shearing happens. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 16:44, 13 November 2007 (EST)

:I can confirm that the 7x7 thing ISN'T valid as of 39e. I've had a 10x20 room with two solid layers on top of it for years and it hasn't collapsed. Only three walls, too. --[[User:CrazyEyes|CrazyEyes]] 11:00, 06 August 2008 (PST)

== Cave-Ins In and ice... ==

Cave ins aren't supposed to damage the floor below? Is this still valid? I found an occasion where they do.

As sometimes happens, one pond froze over on my map. I dug down under the ice, and removed the support from under an island in the centre of the pond. I also dug a room (crypt) under the pond.

When the ice melted come spring, the 'ground' on the surface of the pond lasted a few seconds before realising it should collapse, and when it DID collapse it punched a hole into the room BELOW the pond. I know the hole was punched there becase next winter the ice froze down to the room below ONLY in the tils right below where the cave in occured, the rest staying distinctly wet.

== Cave-ins and Ramps ==

I was under the impression that ramping the floor will dodge any cave in or isolation concerns that occur with channels, however, this is not the case, if a tile has water on it and is the last of adjacent tiles to be ramped there will be a cave-in. Is this due to water having weight and a feature or a bug?
--[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 11:56, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

== Confirmed ==

"Any item caught under falling natural terrain is encased in stone and must be dug out destroyed completely."
I saw this has a "Verify" next to it. I have a video that confirmed it(started a hermit challenge). Here is the link ->http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1001#lastComment --[[User:0todd0|0todd0]] 01:04, 23 December 2008 (EST)

:I honestly don't see how this verifies the statement. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 00:31, 24 December 2008 (EST)

::I've verified that falling floor tiles will cause damage to whatever they hit but they don't destroy items. Falling walls will completely obliterate anything beneath them, with the exception of constructed walls which work like floor tiles. I've also noticed dust pushes items as well as units. Note that I'm using version 40d9. --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 00:54, 24 January 2009 (EST)

== Cave-in vs. objects ==

I'm pretty damn sure I've destroyed a unit of fire imp fat using a dropped (and constructed, no less) floor tile. 40d, too. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 19:21, 24 January 2009 (EST)
:IIRC the movie above shows some bituminous coal surviving some falling floor. I tested it with some kind of yellow stone and a mechanism and it didn't seem to destroy anything, just pushed the stuff around. Are you sure it didn't get pushed off a cliff or into some magma or something? I don't know :/ --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 04:32, 25 January 2009 (EST)
::It was nowhere near magma or cliff. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 12:37, 31 January 2009 (EST)

== Cave-in vs. creatures ==

I have had many instances where my dwarf stands underneath a section of semi-support cave connected to the ceiling above him, and then survive mining out the supporting wall and have the ceiling fall on him. He was superdwarvenly tough, but this seems to contradict "Any creature caught under the falling material is crushed and killed." --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 13:24, 8 March 2009

Also, demons. At least SoF have [NOSTUN], so I'm curious if they will get stunned by cave-in-dust. Can someone test this? I don't have a demon chamber right now. [[User:MC Dirty|MC Dirty]] 08:48, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Bridge

2008-09-19T22:17:32Z

MC Dirty: /* Drawbridge vs colossus */

==Fluids vs bridges==
Does a raised bridge prevent the flow of fluids? Guess I'll experiment and see if I can answer my own question. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 21:21, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:Yes. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:55, 1 March 2008 (EST)

==picture: south-raising drawbridge==
Here's a picture of a bridge that raises South, to clear up any confusion over which direction bridges raise. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 18:03, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
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|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|╚|═|╝|.|╞|═|╡|.
|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.}}

== Items... ==

When a creature is crushed by a bridge, what happens to the items they had?--[[User:Lordmick134|Lordmick134]]

:When the bridge lowers, it completely ans permanently destroys anything it crashes on. So, there will be absolutely nothing under bridge, when it raises back.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 03:29, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

::Not true! I had trapped a goblin inside a room with a bridge in it, and set the lever connected to the bridge to be repeatedly pulled. The goblin was stunned at most.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 09:37, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

:::The goblin was likely ''flung'' from the bridge after stepping onto the extended bridge which then raised with the goblin still on it. Crushing is definitely an irrevocable and utter destruction. --[[User:JT|JT]] 16:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

== Channeling ==

Checked the [[channel]]ing article, nothing there, either. I have a bridge that raises to the right to form a wall, part of my outer defensive perimeter. I was digging a channel around the fortification wall and wanted to channel under the bridge. I raised the bridge ... I cannot channel. It never creates the flashy 'this is gonna be channeled' designation anywhere where the bridge could lay over. I can channel any where else. I can also remove the bridge, channel what I want, and replace the bridge just fine. What gives? Is this a known bug? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 02:35, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

:As far as I know you can't dig on constructions. When the bridge is raised it is still considered to be constructed there. (or something like that) I had the same problem with some retracting bridges. To fix it I just removed the bridges and dug the channels, and then rebuilt them. --[[User:Lotus|Lotus]] 10:13 (CST) June 11, 2008

== Bridges as a temporary wall ==

I want to build a wall by pulling a lever, to block off a tunnel three squares wide.
It is a mine tunnel with no channel above it.

How long should the bridge be?

It looks like this:
<div style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%"><nowiki>
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ò▒▒▒
.........╥.........
.........║.........
.........╨.........
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
</nowiki></div>

[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

Well, you have to be careful. Don't forget, by raising a bridge, you can potentially obliterate your dwarves in the process. So try not to make it too wide. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:41, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:My question is, if I make it too long will it smash into the roof or anything?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::As far as I know of, it won't smash into the roof. The only concern is that if the bridge is too long, a dwarf may get accidently crushed. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:14, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Buildings that span multiple/variable z-levels are, at the current time, not possible. So, just build a 1x3 bridge, set it to raise west or east, and you have a wall! A toggleable wall! --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::::I'd suggest doing a 2x bridge, as you'll have to track down the lever anytime you're curious as to whether the bridge is up or down, as a 1x or x1 bridge looks the same raised or lowered when raised on it's short axis. (e.g. the bridge above would look the same raised or lowered.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:59, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

== Retractable/drawbridge ==

How can you specify which type of bridge you want to build? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:45, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:When you go to place a bridge, by default it retracts. If you press wadxs you change the direction it raises: w = north, a= west, d=east, x=south, s=retracts. I don't know how to set the direction it retracts though.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::So if it retracts, it creates an impassable wall? -[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:15, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:::No, it disappears. If it raises, it creates an impassable wall, whose direction is the same as the raise direction. Try it out.
:::And, Garrie, it isn't possible to set retract direction since there is no such thing. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Well I guess it doesn't really matter which way it retracts... although if a bridge is built outward from a cliff running east-west out to the chasm which is to the north then obviously the bridge retracts back to the edge it is anchored at (it can hardly retract back into mid-air...).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 23:22, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Oh, really? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:32, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::well I guess applying common sense to DF might not be the best idea... but common sense would [bold]suggest [/bold] the bridge retracts back to where it was built from.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:03, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::::We don't use BBcode here. I don't think that even is BBcode, but it is in that style. To make '''bold text''', type <code><nowiki>'''bold text'''</nowiki></code>.
:::::::And you're right that applying common sense to DF doesn't work. Even the least of peasants can carry thousands of pounds pebbles in a backpack. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:06, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

== Bridge-on-bridge action ==

I've just added a note about retractable bridges being able to be built using existing bridges as support. However I'm currently unable to test what happens when an intermediary bridge is retracted or raised (I have no stone for mechanisms!). I'm assuming that any bridges relying on the retracted/raised bridge for support will collapse, but it should be tested (and noted), if someone else has the time and inclination! [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 12:04, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

: I can confirm that when the first bridge is retracted the second one deconstructs. And also if you choose to do your testing using extreme cliffs and "accidently" make 6 of your 7 dwarves stand on the second bridge then they will die a horrible death after falling 18 stories. --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 16:54, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

::What if you raise both of the bridges at the same time? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:48, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:::The same thing happens, the second bridge deconstructs again --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 13:48, 22 June 2008 (EDT)
::::I attempted this quite some time ago, I think. I had something like ten bridges in a row built off a cliff, and retracted them all at once with one lever. All but the first one (which was connected to the cliff) shattered into stones instantly. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:29, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

== lockdown system ==

in one of my old forts i had a setup so if the opponent got near my bridges a lever would be pulled and the opponents would fall into the lava with a godlike imp in it, it would use multiple bridges however and i would have to rebuild atleast 1, it was sort of like a tesselation of crosses

== Flying Bridge ==
Build stairs up. Build stairs down atop it. Build a retracting bridge extending into open air from the downstairs. Link the retracting bridge to a lever. Pull the lever to retract the bridge. Deconstruct the down stairs. Deconstruct the up stairs. Pull the lever. Remove the lever. Bridge flies. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 11:38, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
:Shame this can't be used to build eg. twisty retractable catwalks due to the above confirmations in Bridge-on-bridge action. :/ --[[User:Heron|Heron]] 09:46, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
::You could probably get something similar by just having occasional pillars sticking up, constructed by building towers of stairs, building a wall adjacent, then deconstructing the stairs. If you have each bridge anchored to one pillar, you ought to be able to get many retractable bridges in a sequence. --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 12:08, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
:::More testing. Retracted bridges never deconstruct. Make a chain as long as you like by keeping them all retracted until scaffolding is removed. Un-retracting bridges never deconstuct nor cause deconstruction. To make a path of multiple flying bridges build a scaffold for the first bridge, retract it, deconstruct the scaffold, build the second scaffold, retract that bridge, deconstruct that scaffold, and so forth. You can then unretract all bridges in any order and they'll all stay up. Retracting them again in any order caused them to fall. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 09:00, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

== Stockpiles under bridges ==

I tried to make a refuse stockpile with a drawbridge over top, and I couldn't place the stockpile where the bridge would lower onto. Can anyone else confirm this for the new version? [[User:Falcondude|Falcondude]] 11:05, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
:Yeah, that won't work. If you are trying to make a garbage compactor, make a ledge and designate a garbage dump with (i) that will drop the items where the bridge will close.[[User:Trevlyn13|Trevlyn13]]

== Drawbridge vs colossus ==

Yesterday a bronze colossus got trapped between my 2 moats, right under the drawbridge. It was too close to the catapults so that the operators wouldn't fire them, so I tried to crush it with the bridge.
My bridge broke instead.
(later I killed it by shooting hundreds of arrows)
If anyone could replicate this, and also experiment with other megabeasts....
(actually I made this account to tell people about this)
[[User:nautilusfossil|nautilusfossil]]
:As far as I know, Dwarven Atom Crushers™ break on megabeasts and demons. Cage Traps are the way to go for megabeasts, but demons are immune against them.
:I don't know about semi-megabeasts considering bridge-breaking. [[User:MC Dirty|MC Dirty]] 18:17, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

== Dwarves negative thoughts regarding crushed friends ==

Dwarves respond to friends or family members being crushed by a drawbridge as if they'd been killed & then not buried: "He was forced to endure the decay of a sibling lately. He lost a sibling to tragedy recently." (I'm certain this was due to the drawbridge, as all the siblings *except* the one that was crushed had these negative thoughts. Nobody else in the family had been killed by anything yet.) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 14:49, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Bridge

2008-09-19T22:17:11Z

MC Dirty: /* Drawbridge vs colossus */

==Fluids vs bridges==
Does a raised bridge prevent the flow of fluids? Guess I'll experiment and see if I can answer my own question. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 21:21, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:Yes. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 04:55, 1 March 2008 (EST)

==picture: south-raising drawbridge==
Here's a picture of a bridge that raises South, to clear up any confusion over which direction bridges raise. [[User:Basilisk|Basilisk]] 18:03, 27 March 2008 (EDT)
{{qd|cols=8
|╔|═|╗|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|║|+|║|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}|{{qd/ch{{!}}≈{{!}}00F}}
|╚|═|╝|.|╞|═|╡|.
|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.}}

== Items... ==

When a creature is crushed by a bridge, what happens to the items they had?--[[User:Lordmick134|Lordmick134]]

:When the bridge lowers, it completely ans permanently destroys anything it crashes on. So, there will be absolutely nothing under bridge, when it raises back.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 03:29, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

::Not true! I had trapped a goblin inside a room with a bridge in it, and set the lever connected to the bridge to be repeatedly pulled. The goblin was stunned at most.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 09:37, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

:::The goblin was likely ''flung'' from the bridge after stepping onto the extended bridge which then raised with the goblin still on it. Crushing is definitely an irrevocable and utter destruction. --[[User:JT|JT]] 16:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

== Channeling ==

Checked the [[channel]]ing article, nothing there, either. I have a bridge that raises to the right to form a wall, part of my outer defensive perimeter. I was digging a channel around the fortification wall and wanted to channel under the bridge. I raised the bridge ... I cannot channel. It never creates the flashy 'this is gonna be channeled' designation anywhere where the bridge could lay over. I can channel any where else. I can also remove the bridge, channel what I want, and replace the bridge just fine. What gives? Is this a known bug? --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 02:35, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

:As far as I know you can't dig on constructions. When the bridge is raised it is still considered to be constructed there. (or something like that) I had the same problem with some retracting bridges. To fix it I just removed the bridges and dug the channels, and then rebuilt them. --[[User:Lotus|Lotus]] 10:13 (CST) June 11, 2008

== Bridges as a temporary wall ==

I want to build a wall by pulling a lever, to block off a tunnel three squares wide.
It is a mine tunnel with no channel above it.

How long should the bridge be?

It looks like this:
<div style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%"><nowiki>
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ò▒▒▒
.........╥.........
.........║.........
.........╨.........
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
</nowiki></div>

[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

Well, you have to be careful. Don't forget, by raising a bridge, you can potentially obliterate your dwarves in the process. So try not to make it too wide. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:41, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:My question is, if I make it too long will it smash into the roof or anything?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::As far as I know of, it won't smash into the roof. The only concern is that if the bridge is too long, a dwarf may get accidently crushed. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:14, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Buildings that span multiple/variable z-levels are, at the current time, not possible. So, just build a 1x3 bridge, set it to raise west or east, and you have a wall! A toggleable wall! --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::::I'd suggest doing a 2x bridge, as you'll have to track down the lever anytime you're curious as to whether the bridge is up or down, as a 1x or x1 bridge looks the same raised or lowered when raised on it's short axis. (e.g. the bridge above would look the same raised or lowered.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 09:59, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

== Retractable/drawbridge ==

How can you specify which type of bridge you want to build? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:45, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:When you go to place a bridge, by default it retracts. If you press wadxs you change the direction it raises: w = north, a= west, d=east, x=south, s=retracts. I don't know how to set the direction it retracts though.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:12, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::So if it retracts, it creates an impassable wall? -[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:15, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:::No, it disappears. If it raises, it creates an impassable wall, whose direction is the same as the raise direction. Try it out.
:::And, Garrie, it isn't possible to set retract direction since there is no such thing. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Well I guess it doesn't really matter which way it retracts... although if a bridge is built outward from a cliff running east-west out to the chasm which is to the north then obviously the bridge retracts back to the edge it is anchored at (it can hardly retract back into mid-air...).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 23:22, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Oh, really? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:32, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::well I guess applying common sense to DF might not be the best idea... but common sense would [bold]suggest [/bold] the bridge retracts back to where it was built from.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:03, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::::We don't use BBcode here. I don't think that even is BBcode, but it is in that style. To make '''bold text''', type <code><nowiki>'''bold text'''</nowiki></code>.
:::::::And you're right that applying common sense to DF doesn't work. Even the least of peasants can carry thousands of pounds pebbles in a backpack. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:06, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

== Bridge-on-bridge action ==

I've just added a note about retractable bridges being able to be built using existing bridges as support. However I'm currently unable to test what happens when an intermediary bridge is retracted or raised (I have no stone for mechanisms!). I'm assuming that any bridges relying on the retracted/raised bridge for support will collapse, but it should be tested (and noted), if someone else has the time and inclination! [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 12:04, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

: I can confirm that when the first bridge is retracted the second one deconstructs. And also if you choose to do your testing using extreme cliffs and "accidently" make 6 of your 7 dwarves stand on the second bridge then they will die a horrible death after falling 18 stories. --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 16:54, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

::What if you raise both of the bridges at the same time? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:48, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:::The same thing happens, the second bridge deconstructs again --[[User:Makuus|Makuus]] 13:48, 22 June 2008 (EDT)
::::I attempted this quite some time ago, I think. I had something like ten bridges in a row built off a cliff, and retracted them all at once with one lever. All but the first one (which was connected to the cliff) shattered into stones instantly. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:29, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

== lockdown system ==

in one of my old forts i had a setup so if the opponent got near my bridges a lever would be pulled and the opponents would fall into the lava with a godlike imp in it, it would use multiple bridges however and i would have to rebuild atleast 1, it was sort of like a tesselation of crosses

== Flying Bridge ==
Build stairs up. Build stairs down atop it. Build a retracting bridge extending into open air from the downstairs. Link the retracting bridge to a lever. Pull the lever to retract the bridge. Deconstruct the down stairs. Deconstruct the up stairs. Pull the lever. Remove the lever. Bridge flies. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 11:38, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
:Shame this can't be used to build eg. twisty retractable catwalks due to the above confirmations in Bridge-on-bridge action. :/ --[[User:Heron|Heron]] 09:46, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
::You could probably get something similar by just having occasional pillars sticking up, constructed by building towers of stairs, building a wall adjacent, then deconstructing the stairs. If you have each bridge anchored to one pillar, you ought to be able to get many retractable bridges in a sequence. --[[User:AlexChurchill|AlexChurchill]] 12:08, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
:::More testing. Retracted bridges never deconstruct. Make a chain as long as you like by keeping them all retracted until scaffolding is removed. Un-retracting bridges never deconstuct nor cause deconstruction. To make a path of multiple flying bridges build a scaffold for the first bridge, retract it, deconstruct the scaffold, build the second scaffold, retract that bridge, deconstruct that scaffold, and so forth. You can then unretract all bridges in any order and they'll all stay up. Retracting them again in any order caused them to fall. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 09:00, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

== Stockpiles under bridges ==

I tried to make a refuse stockpile with a drawbridge over top, and I couldn't place the stockpile where the bridge would lower onto. Can anyone else confirm this for the new version? [[User:Falcondude|Falcondude]] 11:05, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
:Yeah, that won't work. If you are trying to make a garbage compactor, make a ledge and designate a garbage dump with (i) that will drop the items where the bridge will close.[[User:Trevlyn13|Trevlyn13]]

== Drawbridge vs colossus ==

Yesterday a bronze colossus got trapped between my 2 moats, right under the drawbridge. It was too close to the catapults so that the operators wouldn't fire them, so I tried to crush it with the bridge.
My bridge broke instead.
(later I killed it by shooting hundreds of arrows)
If anyone could replicate this, and also experiment with other megabeasts....
(actually I made this account to tell people about this)
[[User:nautilusfossil|nautilusfossil]]
:As far as I know, Dwarven Atom Crushers™ break on megabeasts and demons. Cage Traps are the way to go for megabeasts, but demons are immune against them.
I don't know about semi-megabeasts considering bridge-breaking. [[User:MC Dirty|MC Dirty]] 18:17, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

== Dwarves negative thoughts regarding crushed friends ==

Dwarves respond to friends or family members being crushed by a drawbridge as if they'd been killed & then not buried: "He was forced to endure the decay of a sibling lately. He lost a sibling to tragedy recently." (I'm certain this was due to the drawbridge, as all the siblings *except* the one that was crushed had these negative thoughts. Nobody else in the family had been killed by anything yet.) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 14:49, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

40d:How to safely start fortress mode

2008-09-11T21:58:50Z

MC Dirty: /* Dwarf jobs and happiness */

This guide was compiled by Yanlin (And the users) for the users. Basically it contains Yanlin's personal advice with the advice of others taking a higher rank.

The page has not yet been completely made wiki friendly and it is a WIP.

=The guide=

All advice in the replies will be summed up here in user friendly bits.

==Dwarf jobs and happiness==

Don't try to take one of everything at the start. All jobs that will be run almost constantly can just be done by an [[Immigration|immigrant]]. For example, start with one [[mason]] working like a madman churning out [[door]]s and such. Then when you get your first wave, start at least 4 mason [[workshop]]s and make them churn out standard [[room]]s. If you can make an apartment complex instead of a huge [[Barracks|barracks]] room, you get yourself a good [[Thought|happy bonus]]. -Yanlin

Legendary [[dining room]]s: Any room that's about 5x5, fully engraved and has maybe 4 tables and chairs will be legendary from my experience. I usually take a proficient [[engraver]] with me on the start to speed it up and it also helps if he is the only one doing the engravings. Legendary dining rooms can make dwarves forget even the most horrible things! Even death. -Yanlin

A fort divided does not stand. Make sure your dwarves don't run around like idiots. -Yanlin

[[Cave adaptation]]: I set up a simple system. There is only one exit out of my apartment complex. My apartment complex spans multiple [[Z-axis|floors]] and each one has the entire entrance in light state. How? Well light passes through [[Floor#Construction|floors]]! Go figure. This is how I do it. I [[channel[[ out the entire entrance from the top to the level I am currently building in. I [[Wall#Construction|wall]] it in on the top to prevent [[goblin]]s and other nasty stuff from jumping or firing in. I create a small "maintenance" tunnel going near the channeling area so that the channelers have access to it. It's simple really. When the channeling grinds to a halt, pave all the channeled areas with floors. I never tested [[wood]] floors. (What kind of idiot wastes wood on anything but [[bin]]s, [[bucket]]s, [[barrel]]s and [[bed]]s?) -Yanlin

[[Stone]] [[stockpile]]s: NO! NOT A CHANCE! But if you set up a special workshop for churning out expensive items, set up a stockpile that accepts only that one kind of expensive rock. Setting up a small stone stockpile under your masonry workshop is a good idea though. -Yanlin

[[Hauling|Haulers]]: Have at least 5-10 free peasants for hauling. Usually my fortress can run on just my 7 starting dwarves. I can easily supply 60 dwarves worth of [[food]] and [[Alcohol|booze]] while the rest do the odd job here and there. -Yanlin

Micromanagement: Only your core dwarves need it. The rest can just do anything they want. -Yanlin

[[Fishing]]: Not worth it. Only the [[shell]]s are worth it. -Yanlin

[[Ambusher|Hunting]]: Worth it. But at least give your [[hunter]] some [[armor]]. -Yanlin

[[Farm plot|Farm]] size: 10x10 of [[plump helmet]]s without fertilizing will feed 500 dwarves. A 5x5 field WITH fertilizing will feed about 500 dwarves. Do the math. (Rough estimates. Untested.) -Yanlin

[[Cloth]]: [[Pig tail]]s will provide you all the cloth you need and booze too. -Yanlin

Buying your first [[anvil]]: Mugging. No not robbing the [[Trading|merchant]]. Making tons and tons of stone [[Goblet|mugs]]! You'd be amazed how much you can buy with a few bins worth of mugs. Each stone gives 3 mugs and a skilled mason can make enough to... Well... Buy anything you need. Remember, [[Craftsdwarf|craftsdwarves]] are GOOD! -Yanlin

[[Nobles]]: Give them a huge [[bedroom]], huge [[office]] and cram it up with some decorations and [[engraving]]s. That should keep em happy for a while. -Yanlin

==Pets and food animals==

Cats. DO NOT DO IT! IT IS NOT WORTH IT! -Yanlin

Dogs. DO IT! IT IS WORTH IT! -Yanlin

Shamelessly kill off any newborn pets to prevent overpopulation. Especially useful on cats. -HisMajestyBOB

Dogs give a lot of bang for your buck.
They are a good source of meat. You just pay 16 bucks for them upon embark, if I remember correctly. This might be a little bit more than the price of 5 meat (which is 10 bucks) but you have to take into account that they get offspring, son that 20 dogs of the first year might turn into 30 dogs or more in the second year.
when you slaughter them each dog gives you 5 meat, 5 bones, a hide and a skull. This as well as the fact that dogs, in contrast to meat don't rot, makes it useful to buy at least some of them upon start. -Proteus

Dogs are better than cats. Dogs breed just as fast and you can have an army of wardogs slaughtering everything, not to mention they make an incredible thief defense. Simply put a meeting zone across the entrance to your fort, then you'll have all eleventy billion dogs wandering around in that meeting zone. Any thief is instantly turned into kobold kibble, and they're quite handly at dealing with smaller sieges too.
Also you can slaughter dogs at whim, whereas you can't slaughter an owned pet. -Hyndis

==Defense==

An army of peasants is a good thing if you think about it. Churn out a few crossbows and bolts. Even copper weapons can take down most sieges you will probably get. -Yanlin

Goblin pedophiles and Kobold noobs. One dog on a chain will kill them on contact. Especially a war dog. I usually buy a few chains at the embarkment. -Yanlin

Security. Stonefall traps at the entrance help. After you need more than that, you probably have more than that. Make weapon traps that shoot or better yet, station marksdwarves in fortifications outside your fort. Make sure to put them in a tower. -Yanlin

You might want to bring along a rope and then wall in your fortress entrance so there is only one path. Then set a dog on the rope (Not a cat, those are more useful against vermin) beside the door to stop the sneaky sorts. -Gamerofthegame

Weapon traps and marksdwarves = survival for for most -wendigo

==Production and efficiency==

Glass. You want sand on your map. It is awesome advice to have sand on your map. Remember. Glass is EASY to make especially if you can get a source of fuel for your forge. You can make almost everything out of glass. If you can get a magma glass forge, you win. -Yanlin

Iron. You want it. If you didn't find iron, I suggest just starting over in another location or if you feel determined, buy it. But it can get costly. -Yanlin

Common barrel exploit. Each piece of meat and booze you bring with you, will give you one free barrel. 5 of each can fit in a barrel and if you take 6 of something, you get 2 barrels. Etc. -Flok Speargrabber

Turtles are AWESOME! -Flok Speargrabber

Bringing a few seeds of everything along with you is wise. (I suggest bringing plenty of plump helmet and pig tail seeds.) -Flok Speargrabber

Immigrants are good for fishing that pesky carp. (Well not really. But they are good for fishing nonetheless.) -blakyoshi7

Farming. The best source of food. If you don't want to "Cheat" you can just plant a big plump helmet farm. Make sure you don't cook it all though. Make sure at least some goes into booze. Booze and eating raw returns seeds. Cooking destroys them. Alternatively you can cook the booze. That creates a cheatish infinate supply of food. -Yanlin

Wood. You don't really NEED a heavily fortested map. Assuming you will make about 100 beds during 3 years and some barrels, buckets and bins, you only need about 500 trees. Might sound like not enough on a non heavily forested map right? Well wrong. Trees DO grow back. Even a lightly forested map has at least 200 trees from what I could tell. -Yanlin

Pig tails are good to bring, as a source of booze that your dwarfs won't accidentally eat up before it's turned into it's sweet elixir of happiness. -Overdose

Pigtail makes great booze. It helps keep your dwarves happy and avoid the "Tired of same booze" unhappy thought. -motorbitch

You need cloth only for strange moods. You can easily buy all the cloth you need and have your farmers do more useful work. -motorbitch

Two humped camels are good for farming as they yield a lot. Consider this option to diversify your meals. Also helps if you want to avoid the booze food exploit.- motorbitch

Lopped off body parts create small bones that are rather useless. (Training bolts are never really useless as you should have too many bins anyway.) -motorbitch

You should only put a priority on Magma if you have the ability to make glass with it. If so, it should be one of your first things. -Gamerofthegame

Have your carpenter(s) craft a steady flow of beds/barrels/bins -wendigo

Run a still nonstop. Get those seeds, distill that booze. -wendigo

Metalworking is desirable, but not crucial. -wendigo

I set every dwarf in the fortress to butcher and tan. Its a very high priority job since the corpses and skins will rapidly decay, and by setting every single dwarf to be able to perform this task (skill doesn't matter, a dabbling dwarf does just as well as a legendary dwarf) there's a very high probability it will get done in time. If you have a lot of corpses to process, simply build a bunch of butcher and tanner workshops. -Hyndis

===Wood is useful for:===
Beds - Bins - Barrels - Spikes - Pump parts - Windmills and water wheels

-Flok Speargrabber

===Stone is good for:===

Statues - Coffers - Cabinets - Coffins - Trade goods - Doors - Floodgates - Chairs - Tables - Statues (Cheaper though) - Blocks for roads and floors (More brick-y than block-y)

-Flok Speargrabber

===Metal is good for:===
Weapons - Armor - Magma-safe pumps - Expensive statues - Noble orders, usually, unless they don't want a special metal item

-Flok Speargrabber

==Performance==

Cats are not as bad as they used to be. Now slaughtering the newborns is easy enough and with the new partial print feature, they are not the huge FPS problem they used to be. They are also, like dogs: a good source of meat and such. -Vaftrudner

Don't bother with clothes. They don't really do anything and lag your FPS because they get checked every moment. Your dwarves wont mind walking around nude and no one is going to judge them about it. (Politically it does not matter.) -motorbitch

Bring a cage. Just one. You can use it to stuff your excess creatures. Mainly anything outside two cats and maybe two dogs. -Gamerofthegame

==Special conditions==

You could bring five picks and 300 logs if you're on a treeless map. Just don't make stuff from wood if you can make them from something else. (Stockpile = bad) -Ashery

=Adding your own advice=

If you wish to add your own advice, do so in a grammatically correct manner. Links are not mandatory but desired. Remember to sign it with one space, a dash and then your name.

-NameHere

If you think the advice is poor, do not add it. The last thing Yanlin needs is more pruning of bad advice.

==Formatting==

Keep two lines of space after the advice above yours. Do not add it into the middle of the section.
Big advices deserve their own subcategory. But don't just sprinkle them around like an idiot.

Keep 3 lines of space under your advice to the next category.

All this formatting is needed so the guide does not become a hard to read wall of text.

=WIP=

This page still needs links to other articles. If you see a word or sentence that should be linked to a particular page, please add it. Make sure to tick the "This is a minor edit" button if you are not doing a big overhaul of the links.

40d:How to safely start fortress mode

2008-09-11T21:58:23Z

MC Dirty: /* Dwarf jobs and happiness */

This guide was compiled by Yanlin (And the users) for the users. Basically it contains Yanlin's personal advice with the advice of others taking a higher rank.

The page has not yet been completely made wiki friendly and it is a WIP.

=The guide=

All advice in the replies will be summed up here in user friendly bits.

==Dwarf jobs and happiness==

Don't try to take one of everything at the start. All jobs that will be run almost constantly can just be done by an [[Immigration|immigrant]]. For example, start with one [[mason]] working like a madman churning out [[door]]s and such. Then when you get your first wave, start at least 4 mason [[workshop]]s and make them churn out standard [[room]]s. If you can make an apartment complex instead of a huge [[Barracks|barracks]] room, you get yourself a good [[Thought|happy bonus]]. -Yanlin

Legendary [[dining room]]s: Any room that's about 5x5, fully engraved and has maybe 4 tables and chairs will be legendary from my experience. I usually take a proficient [[engraver]] with me on the start to speed it up and it also helps if he is the only one doing the engravings. Legendary dining rooms can make dwarves forget even the most horrible things! Even death. -Yanlin

A fort divided does not stand. Make sure your dwarves don't run around like idiots. -Yanlin

[[Cave adaptation]]: I set up a simple system. There is only one exit out of my apartment complex. My apartment complex spans multiple [[Z-axis|floors]] and each one has the entire entrance in light state. How? Well light passes through [[Floor#Construction|floors]]! Go figure. This is how I do it. I [[channel[[ out the entire entrance from the top to the level I am currently building in. I [[Wall#Construction|wall]] it in on the top to prevent [[goblin]]s and other nasty stuff from jumping or firing in. I create a small "maintenance" tunnel going near the channeling area so that the channelers have access to it. It's simple really. When the channeling grinds to a halt, pave all the channeled areas with floors. I never tested [[wood]] floors. (What kind of idiot wastes wood on anything but [[bin]]s, [[bucket]]s, [[barrel]]s and [[bed]]s?) -Yanlin

[[Stone]] [[stockpile]]s: NO! NOT A CHANCE! But if you set up a special workshop for churning out expensive items, set up a stockpile that accepts only that one kind of expensive rock. Setting up a small stone stockpile under your masonry workshop is a good idea though. -Yanlin

[[Hauling|Haulers]]: Have at least 5-10 free peasants for hauling. Usually my fortress can run on just my 7 starting dwarves. I can easily supply 60 dwarves worth of [[food]] and [[Alcohol|booze]] while the rest do the odd job here and there. -Yanlin

Micromanagement: Only your core dwarves need it. The rest can just do anything they want. -Yanlin

[[Fishing]]: Not worth it. Only the [[shell]]s are worth it. -Yanlin

[[Ambusher|Hunting]]: Worth it. But at least give your [[hunter]] some [[armor]]. -Yanlin

[[Farm Plot|Farm]] size: 10x10 of [[plump helmet]]s without fertilizing will feed 500 dwarves. A 5x5 field WITH fertilizing will feed about 500 dwarves. Do the math. (Rough estimates. Untested.) -Yanlin

[[Cloth]]: [[Pig tail]]s will provide you all the cloth you need and booze too. -Yanlin

Buying your first [[anvil]]: Mugging. No not robbing the [[Trading|merchant]]. Making tons and tons of stone [[Goblet|mugs]]! You'd be amazed how much you can buy with a few bins worth of mugs. Each stone gives 3 mugs and a skilled mason can make enough to... Well... Buy anything you need. Remember, [[Craftsdwarf|craftsdwarves]] are GOOD! -Yanlin

[[Nobles]]: Give them a huge [[bedroom]], huge [[office]] and cram it up with some decorations and [[engraving]]s. That should keep em happy for a while. -Yanlin

==Pets and food animals==

Cats. DO NOT DO IT! IT IS NOT WORTH IT! -Yanlin

Dogs. DO IT! IT IS WORTH IT! -Yanlin

Shamelessly kill off any newborn pets to prevent overpopulation. Especially useful on cats. -HisMajestyBOB

Dogs give a lot of bang for your buck.
They are a good source of meat. You just pay 16 bucks for them upon embark, if I remember correctly. This might be a little bit more than the price of 5 meat (which is 10 bucks) but you have to take into account that they get offspring, son that 20 dogs of the first year might turn into 30 dogs or more in the second year.
when you slaughter them each dog gives you 5 meat, 5 bones, a hide and a skull. This as well as the fact that dogs, in contrast to meat don't rot, makes it useful to buy at least some of them upon start. -Proteus

Dogs are better than cats. Dogs breed just as fast and you can have an army of wardogs slaughtering everything, not to mention they make an incredible thief defense. Simply put a meeting zone across the entrance to your fort, then you'll have all eleventy billion dogs wandering around in that meeting zone. Any thief is instantly turned into kobold kibble, and they're quite handly at dealing with smaller sieges too.
Also you can slaughter dogs at whim, whereas you can't slaughter an owned pet. -Hyndis

==Defense==

An army of peasants is a good thing if you think about it. Churn out a few crossbows and bolts. Even copper weapons can take down most sieges you will probably get. -Yanlin

Goblin pedophiles and Kobold noobs. One dog on a chain will kill them on contact. Especially a war dog. I usually buy a few chains at the embarkment. -Yanlin

Security. Stonefall traps at the entrance help. After you need more than that, you probably have more than that. Make weapon traps that shoot or better yet, station marksdwarves in fortifications outside your fort. Make sure to put them in a tower. -Yanlin

You might want to bring along a rope and then wall in your fortress entrance so there is only one path. Then set a dog on the rope (Not a cat, those are more useful against vermin) beside the door to stop the sneaky sorts. -Gamerofthegame

Weapon traps and marksdwarves = survival for for most -wendigo

==Production and efficiency==

Glass. You want sand on your map. It is awesome advice to have sand on your map. Remember. Glass is EASY to make especially if you can get a source of fuel for your forge. You can make almost everything out of glass. If you can get a magma glass forge, you win. -Yanlin

Iron. You want it. If you didn't find iron, I suggest just starting over in another location or if you feel determined, buy it. But it can get costly. -Yanlin

Common barrel exploit. Each piece of meat and booze you bring with you, will give you one free barrel. 5 of each can fit in a barrel and if you take 6 of something, you get 2 barrels. Etc. -Flok Speargrabber

Turtles are AWESOME! -Flok Speargrabber

Bringing a few seeds of everything along with you is wise. (I suggest bringing plenty of plump helmet and pig tail seeds.) -Flok Speargrabber

Immigrants are good for fishing that pesky carp. (Well not really. But they are good for fishing nonetheless.) -blakyoshi7

Farming. The best source of food. If you don't want to "Cheat" you can just plant a big plump helmet farm. Make sure you don't cook it all though. Make sure at least some goes into booze. Booze and eating raw returns seeds. Cooking destroys them. Alternatively you can cook the booze. That creates a cheatish infinate supply of food. -Yanlin

Wood. You don't really NEED a heavily fortested map. Assuming you will make about 100 beds during 3 years and some barrels, buckets and bins, you only need about 500 trees. Might sound like not enough on a non heavily forested map right? Well wrong. Trees DO grow back. Even a lightly forested map has at least 200 trees from what I could tell. -Yanlin

Pig tails are good to bring, as a source of booze that your dwarfs won't accidentally eat up before it's turned into it's sweet elixir of happiness. -Overdose

Pigtail makes great booze. It helps keep your dwarves happy and avoid the "Tired of same booze" unhappy thought. -motorbitch

You need cloth only for strange moods. You can easily buy all the cloth you need and have your farmers do more useful work. -motorbitch

Two humped camels are good for farming as they yield a lot. Consider this option to diversify your meals. Also helps if you want to avoid the booze food exploit.- motorbitch

Lopped off body parts create small bones that are rather useless. (Training bolts are never really useless as you should have too many bins anyway.) -motorbitch

You should only put a priority on Magma if you have the ability to make glass with it. If so, it should be one of your first things. -Gamerofthegame

Have your carpenter(s) craft a steady flow of beds/barrels/bins -wendigo

Run a still nonstop. Get those seeds, distill that booze. -wendigo

Metalworking is desirable, but not crucial. -wendigo

I set every dwarf in the fortress to butcher and tan. Its a very high priority job since the corpses and skins will rapidly decay, and by setting every single dwarf to be able to perform this task (skill doesn't matter, a dabbling dwarf does just as well as a legendary dwarf) there's a very high probability it will get done in time. If you have a lot of corpses to process, simply build a bunch of butcher and tanner workshops. -Hyndis

===Wood is useful for:===
Beds - Bins - Barrels - Spikes - Pump parts - Windmills and water wheels

-Flok Speargrabber

===Stone is good for:===

Statues - Coffers - Cabinets - Coffins - Trade goods - Doors - Floodgates - Chairs - Tables - Statues (Cheaper though) - Blocks for roads and floors (More brick-y than block-y)

-Flok Speargrabber

===Metal is good for:===
Weapons - Armor - Magma-safe pumps - Expensive statues - Noble orders, usually, unless they don't want a special metal item

-Flok Speargrabber

==Performance==

Cats are not as bad as they used to be. Now slaughtering the newborns is easy enough and with the new partial print feature, they are not the huge FPS problem they used to be. They are also, like dogs: a good source of meat and such. -Vaftrudner

Don't bother with clothes. They don't really do anything and lag your FPS because they get checked every moment. Your dwarves wont mind walking around nude and no one is going to judge them about it. (Politically it does not matter.) -motorbitch

Bring a cage. Just one. You can use it to stuff your excess creatures. Mainly anything outside two cats and maybe two dogs. -Gamerofthegame

==Special conditions==

You could bring five picks and 300 logs if you're on a treeless map. Just don't make stuff from wood if you can make them from something else. (Stockpile = bad) -Ashery

=Adding your own advice=

If you wish to add your own advice, do so in a grammatically correct manner. Links are not mandatory but desired. Remember to sign it with one space, a dash and then your name.

-NameHere

If you think the advice is poor, do not add it. The last thing Yanlin needs is more pruning of bad advice.

==Formatting==

Keep two lines of space after the advice above yours. Do not add it into the middle of the section.
Big advices deserve their own subcategory. But don't just sprinkle them around like an idiot.

Keep 3 lines of space under your advice to the next category.

All this formatting is needed so the guide does not become a hard to read wall of text.

=WIP=

This page still needs links to other articles. If you see a word or sentence that should be linked to a particular page, please add it. Make sure to tick the "This is a minor edit" button if you are not doing a big overhaul of the links.

40d:How to safely start fortress mode

2008-09-11T21:53:35Z

MC Dirty: /* Dwarf jobs and happiness */

This guide was compiled by Yanlin (And the users) for the users. Basically it contains Yanlin's personal advice with the advice of others taking a higher rank.

The page has not yet been completely made wiki friendly and it is a WIP.

=The guide=

All advice in the replies will be summed up here in user friendly bits.

==Dwarf jobs and happiness==

Don't try to take one of everything at the start. All jobs that will be run almost constantly can just be done by an [[Immigration|immigrant]]. For example, start with one [[mason]] working like a madman churning out [[door]]s and such. Then when you get your first wave, start at least 4 mason [[workshop]]s and make them churn out standard [[room]]s. If you can make an apartment complex instead of a huge [[Barracks|barracks]] room, you get yourself a good happy bonus. -Yanlin

Legendary [[dining room]]s: Any room that's about 5x5, fully engraved and has maybe 4 tables and chairs will be legendary from my experience. I usually take a proficient [[engraver]] with me on the start to speed it up and it also helps if he is the only one doing the engravings. Legendary dining rooms can make dwarves forget even the most horrible things! Even death. -Yanlin

A fort divided does not stand. Make sure your dwarves don't run around like idiots. -Yanlin

[[Cave adaptation]]: I set up a simple system. There is only one exit out of my apartment complex. My apartment complex spans multiple [[Z-axis|floors]] and each one has the entire entrance in light state. How? Well light passes through [[Floor#Construction|floors]]! Go figure. This is how I do it. I [[channel[[ out the entire entrance from the top to the level I am currently building in. I [[Wall#Construction|wall]] it in on the top to prevent [[goblin]]s and other nasty stuff from jumping or firing in. I create a small "maintenance" tunnel going near the channeling area so that the channelers have access to it. It's simple really. When the channeling grinds to a halt, pave all the channeled areas with floors. I never tested [[wood]] floors. (What kind of idiot wastes wood on anything but [[bin]]s, [[bucket]]s, [[barrel]]s and [[bed]]s?) -Yanlin

[[Stone]] [[stockpile]]s: NO! NOT A CHANCE! But if you set up a special workshop for churning out expensive items, set up a stockpile that accepts only that one kind of expensive rock. Setting up a small stone stockpile under your masonry workshop is a good idea though. -Yanlin

[[Hauling|Haulers]]: Have at least 5-10 free peasants for hauling. Usually my fortress can run on just my 7 starting dwarves. I can easily supply 60 dwarves worth of [[food]] and [[Alcohol|booze]] while the rest do the odd job here and there. -Yanlin

Micromanagement: Only your core dwarves need it. The rest can just do anything they want. -Yanlin

[[Fishing]]: Not worth it. Only the [[shell]]s are worth it. -Yanlin

[[Ambusher|Hunting]]: Worth it. But at least give your [[hunter]] some armor. -Yanlin

Farm size. 10x10 of plump helmets without fertilizing will feed 500 dwarves. A 5x5 field WITH fertilizing will feed about 500 dwarves. Do the math. (Rough estimates. Untested.) -Yanlin

Cloth. Pig tails will provide you all the cloth you need and booze too. -Yanlin

Buying your first anvil. Mugging. No not robbing the merchant. Making tons and tons of stone mugs! You'd be amazed how much you can buy with a few bins worth of mugs. Each stone gives 3 mugs and a skilled mason can make enough to... Well... Buy anything you need. Remember, craftsdwarves are GOOD! -Yanlin

Nobles. Give them a huge bedroom, huge office and cram it up with some decorations and engravings. That should keep em happy for a while. -Yanlin

==Pets and food animals==

Cats. DO NOT DO IT! IT IS NOT WORTH IT! -Yanlin

Dogs. DO IT! IT IS WORTH IT! -Yanlin

Shamelessly kill off any newborn pets to prevent overpopulation. Especially useful on cats. -HisMajestyBOB

Dogs give a lot of bang for your buck.
They are a good source of meat. You just pay 16 bucks for them upon embark, if I remember correctly. This might be a little bit more than the price of 5 meat (which is 10 bucks) but you have to take into account that they get offspring, son that 20 dogs of the first year might turn into 30 dogs or more in the second year.
when you slaughter them each dog gives you 5 meat, 5 bones, a hide and a skull. This as well as the fact that dogs, in contrast to meat don't rot, makes it useful to buy at least some of them upon start. -Proteus

Dogs are better than cats. Dogs breed just as fast and you can have an army of wardogs slaughtering everything, not to mention they make an incredible thief defense. Simply put a meeting zone across the entrance to your fort, then you'll have all eleventy billion dogs wandering around in that meeting zone. Any thief is instantly turned into kobold kibble, and they're quite handly at dealing with smaller sieges too.
Also you can slaughter dogs at whim, whereas you can't slaughter an owned pet. -Hyndis

==Defense==

An army of peasants is a good thing if you think about it. Churn out a few crossbows and bolts. Even copper weapons can take down most sieges you will probably get. -Yanlin

Goblin pedophiles and Kobold noobs. One dog on a chain will kill them on contact. Especially a war dog. I usually buy a few chains at the embarkment. -Yanlin

Security. Stonefall traps at the entrance help. After you need more than that, you probably have more than that. Make weapon traps that shoot or better yet, station marksdwarves in fortifications outside your fort. Make sure to put them in a tower. -Yanlin

You might want to bring along a rope and then wall in your fortress entrance so there is only one path. Then set a dog on the rope (Not a cat, those are more useful against vermin) beside the door to stop the sneaky sorts. -Gamerofthegame

Weapon traps and marksdwarves = survival for for most -wendigo

==Production and efficiency==

Glass. You want sand on your map. It is awesome advice to have sand on your map. Remember. Glass is EASY to make especially if you can get a source of fuel for your forge. You can make almost everything out of glass. If you can get a magma glass forge, you win. -Yanlin

Iron. You want it. If you didn't find iron, I suggest just starting over in another location or if you feel determined, buy it. But it can get costly. -Yanlin

Common barrel exploit. Each piece of meat and booze you bring with you, will give you one free barrel. 5 of each can fit in a barrel and if you take 6 of something, you get 2 barrels. Etc. -Flok Speargrabber

Turtles are AWESOME! -Flok Speargrabber

Bringing a few seeds of everything along with you is wise. (I suggest bringing plenty of plump helmet and pig tail seeds.) -Flok Speargrabber

Immigrants are good for fishing that pesky carp. (Well not really. But they are good for fishing nonetheless.) -blakyoshi7

Farming. The best source of food. If you don't want to "Cheat" you can just plant a big plump helmet farm. Make sure you don't cook it all though. Make sure at least some goes into booze. Booze and eating raw returns seeds. Cooking destroys them. Alternatively you can cook the booze. That creates a cheatish infinate supply of food. -Yanlin

Wood. You don't really NEED a heavily fortested map. Assuming you will make about 100 beds during 3 years and some barrels, buckets and bins, you only need about 500 trees. Might sound like not enough on a non heavily forested map right? Well wrong. Trees DO grow back. Even a lightly forested map has at least 200 trees from what I could tell. -Yanlin

Pig tails are good to bring, as a source of booze that your dwarfs won't accidentally eat up before it's turned into it's sweet elixir of happiness. -Overdose

Pigtail makes great booze. It helps keep your dwarves happy and avoid the "Tired of same booze" unhappy thought. -motorbitch

You need cloth only for strange moods. You can easily buy all the cloth you need and have your farmers do more useful work. -motorbitch

Two humped camels are good for farming as they yield a lot. Consider this option to diversify your meals. Also helps if you want to avoid the booze food exploit.- motorbitch

Lopped off body parts create small bones that are rather useless. (Training bolts are never really useless as you should have too many bins anyway.) -motorbitch

You should only put a priority on Magma if you have the ability to make glass with it. If so, it should be one of your first things. -Gamerofthegame

Have your carpenter(s) craft a steady flow of beds/barrels/bins -wendigo

Run a still nonstop. Get those seeds, distill that booze. -wendigo

Metalworking is desirable, but not crucial. -wendigo

I set every dwarf in the fortress to butcher and tan. Its a very high priority job since the corpses and skins will rapidly decay, and by setting every single dwarf to be able to perform this task (skill doesn't matter, a dabbling dwarf does just as well as a legendary dwarf) there's a very high probability it will get done in time. If you have a lot of corpses to process, simply build a bunch of butcher and tanner workshops. -Hyndis

===Wood is useful for:===
Beds - Bins - Barrels - Spikes - Pump parts - Windmills and water wheels

-Flok Speargrabber

===Stone is good for:===

Statues - Coffers - Cabinets - Coffins - Trade goods - Doors - Floodgates - Chairs - Tables - Statues (Cheaper though) - Blocks for roads and floors (More brick-y than block-y)

-Flok Speargrabber

===Metal is good for:===
Weapons - Armor - Magma-safe pumps - Expensive statues - Noble orders, usually, unless they don't want a special metal item

-Flok Speargrabber

==Performance==

Cats are not as bad as they used to be. Now slaughtering the newborns is easy enough and with the new partial print feature, they are not the huge FPS problem they used to be. They are also, like dogs: a good source of meat and such. -Vaftrudner

Don't bother with clothes. They don't really do anything and lag your FPS because they get checked every moment. Your dwarves wont mind walking around nude and no one is going to judge them about it. (Politically it does not matter.) -motorbitch

Bring a cage. Just one. You can use it to stuff your excess creatures. Mainly anything outside two cats and maybe two dogs. -Gamerofthegame

==Special conditions==

You could bring five picks and 300 logs if you're on a treeless map. Just don't make stuff from wood if you can make them from something else. (Stockpile = bad) -Ashery

=Adding your own advice=

If you wish to add your own advice, do so in a grammatically correct manner. Links are not mandatory but desired. Remember to sign it with one space, a dash and then your name.

-NameHere

If you think the advice is poor, do not add it. The last thing Yanlin needs is more pruning of bad advice.

==Formatting==

Keep two lines of space after the advice above yours. Do not add it into the middle of the section.
Big advices deserve their own subcategory. But don't just sprinkle them around like an idiot.

Keep 3 lines of space under your advice to the next category.

All this formatting is needed so the guide does not become a hard to read wall of text.

=WIP=

This page still needs links to other articles. If you see a word or sentence that should be linked to a particular page, please add it. Make sure to tick the "This is a minor edit" button if you are not doing a big overhaul of the links.

40d:How to safely start fortress mode

2008-09-11T21:46:29Z

MC Dirty:

This guide was compiled by Yanlin (And the users) for the users. Basically it contains Yanlin's personal advice with the advice of others taking a higher rank.

The page has not yet been completely made wiki friendly and it is a WIP.

=The guide=

All advice in the replies will be summed up here in user friendly bits.

==Dwarf jobs and happiness==

Don't try to take one of everything at the start. All jobs that will be run almost constantly can just be done by an [[Immigration|immigrant]]. For example, start with one [[mason]] working like a madman churning out [[door]]s and such. Then when you get your first wave, start at least 4 mason [[workshop]]s and make them churn out standard rooms. If you can make an apartment complex instead of a huge [[Barracks|barracks]] room, you get yourself a good happy bonus. -Yanlin

Legendary [[dining room]]s. Any room that's about 5x5, fully engraved and has maybe 4 tables and chairs will be legendary from my experience. I usually take a proficient [[engraver]] with me on the start to speed it up and it also helps if he is the only one doing the engravings. Legendary dining rooms can make dwarves forget even the most horrible things! Even death. -Yanlin

A fort divided does not stand. Make sure your dwarves don't run around like idiots. -Yanlin

[[Cave adaptation]]: I set up a simple system. There is only one exit out of my apartment complex. My apartment complex spans multiple [[Z-axis|floors]] and each one has the entire entrance in light state. How? Well light passes through [[Floor#Construction|floors]]! Go figure. This is how I do it. I [[channel[[ out the entire entrance from the top to the level I am currently building in. I [[Wall#Construction|wall]] it in on the top to prevent [[goblin]]s and other nasty stuff from jumping or firing in. I create a small "maintenance" tunnel going near the channeling area so that the channelers have access to it. It's simple really. When the channeling grinds to a halt, pave all the channeled areas with floors. I never tested wood floors. (What kind of idiot wastes wood on anything but bins, buckets, barrels and beds?) -Yanlin

Stone stockpiles. NO! NOT A CHANCE! But if you set up a special workshop for churning out expensive items, set up a stockpile that accepts only that one kind of expensive rock. Setting up a small stone stockpile under your masonry workshop is a good idea though. -Yanlin

Haulers. Have at least 5-10 free peasants for hauling. Usually my fortress can run on just my 7 starting dwarves. I can easily supply 60 dwarves worth of food and booze while the rest do the odd job here and there. -Yanlin

Micromanagement. Only your core dwarves need it. The rest can just do anything they want. -Yanlin

Fishing. Not worth it. Only the shells are worth it. -Yanlin

Hunting. Worth it. But at least give your hunter some armor. -Yanlin

Farm size. 10x10 of plump helmets without fertilizing will feed 500 dwarves. A 5x5 field WITH fertilizing will feed about 500 dwarves. Do the math. (Rough estimates. Untested.) -Yanlin

Cloth. Pig tails will provide you all the cloth you need and booze too. -Yanlin

Buying your first anvil. Mugging. No not robbing the merchant. Making tons and tons of stone mugs! You'd be amazed how much you can buy with a few bins worth of mugs. Each stone gives 3 mugs and a skilled mason can make enough to... Well... Buy anything you need. Remember, craftsdwarves are GOOD! -Yanlin

Nobles. Give them a huge bedroom, huge office and cram it up with some decorations and engravings. That should keep em happy for a while. -Yanlin

==Pets and food animals==

Cats. DO NOT DO IT! IT IS NOT WORTH IT! -Yanlin

Dogs. DO IT! IT IS WORTH IT! -Yanlin

Shamelessly kill off any newborn pets to prevent overpopulation. Especially useful on cats. -HisMajestyBOB

Dogs give a lot of bang for your buck.
They are a good source of meat. You just pay 16 bucks for them upon embark, if I remember correctly. This might be a little bit more than the price of 5 meat (which is 10 bucks) but you have to take into account that they get offspring, son that 20 dogs of the first year might turn into 30 dogs or more in the second year.
when you slaughter them each dog gives you 5 meat, 5 bones, a hide and a skull. This as well as the fact that dogs, in contrast to meat don't rot, makes it useful to buy at least some of them upon start. -Proteus

Dogs are better than cats. Dogs breed just as fast and you can have an army of wardogs slaughtering everything, not to mention they make an incredible thief defense. Simply put a meeting zone across the entrance to your fort, then you'll have all eleventy billion dogs wandering around in that meeting zone. Any thief is instantly turned into kobold kibble, and they're quite handly at dealing with smaller sieges too.
Also you can slaughter dogs at whim, whereas you can't slaughter an owned pet. -Hyndis

==Defense==

An army of peasants is a good thing if you think about it. Churn out a few crossbows and bolts. Even copper weapons can take down most sieges you will probably get. -Yanlin

Goblin pedophiles and Kobold noobs. One dog on a chain will kill them on contact. Especially a war dog. I usually buy a few chains at the embarkment. -Yanlin

Security. Stonefall traps at the entrance help. After you need more than that, you probably have more than that. Make weapon traps that shoot or better yet, station marksdwarves in fortifications outside your fort. Make sure to put them in a tower. -Yanlin

You might want to bring along a rope and then wall in your fortress entrance so there is only one path. Then set a dog on the rope (Not a cat, those are more useful against vermin) beside the door to stop the sneaky sorts. -Gamerofthegame

Weapon traps and marksdwarves = survival for for most -wendigo

==Production and efficiency==

Glass. You want sand on your map. It is awesome advice to have sand on your map. Remember. Glass is EASY to make especially if you can get a source of fuel for your forge. You can make almost everything out of glass. If you can get a magma glass forge, you win. -Yanlin

Iron. You want it. If you didn't find iron, I suggest just starting over in another location or if you feel determined, buy it. But it can get costly. -Yanlin

Common barrel exploit. Each piece of meat and booze you bring with you, will give you one free barrel. 5 of each can fit in a barrel and if you take 6 of something, you get 2 barrels. Etc. -Flok Speargrabber

Turtles are AWESOME! -Flok Speargrabber

Bringing a few seeds of everything along with you is wise. (I suggest bringing plenty of plump helmet and pig tail seeds.) -Flok Speargrabber

Immigrants are good for fishing that pesky carp. (Well not really. But they are good for fishing nonetheless.) -blakyoshi7

Farming. The best source of food. If you don't want to "Cheat" you can just plant a big plump helmet farm. Make sure you don't cook it all though. Make sure at least some goes into booze. Booze and eating raw returns seeds. Cooking destroys them. Alternatively you can cook the booze. That creates a cheatish infinate supply of food. -Yanlin

Wood. You don't really NEED a heavily fortested map. Assuming you will make about 100 beds during 3 years and some barrels, buckets and bins, you only need about 500 trees. Might sound like not enough on a non heavily forested map right? Well wrong. Trees DO grow back. Even a lightly forested map has at least 200 trees from what I could tell. -Yanlin

Pig tails are good to bring, as a source of booze that your dwarfs won't accidentally eat up before it's turned into it's sweet elixir of happiness. -Overdose

Pigtail makes great booze. It helps keep your dwarves happy and avoid the "Tired of same booze" unhappy thought. -motorbitch

You need cloth only for strange moods. You can easily buy all the cloth you need and have your farmers do more useful work. -motorbitch

Two humped camels are good for farming as they yield a lot. Consider this option to diversify your meals. Also helps if you want to avoid the booze food exploit.- motorbitch

Lopped off body parts create small bones that are rather useless. (Training bolts are never really useless as you should have too many bins anyway.) -motorbitch

You should only put a priority on Magma if you have the ability to make glass with it. If so, it should be one of your first things. -Gamerofthegame

Have your carpenter(s) craft a steady flow of beds/barrels/bins -wendigo

Run a still nonstop. Get those seeds, distill that booze. -wendigo

Metalworking is desirable, but not crucial. -wendigo

I set every dwarf in the fortress to butcher and tan. Its a very high priority job since the corpses and skins will rapidly decay, and by setting every single dwarf to be able to perform this task (skill doesn't matter, a dabbling dwarf does just as well as a legendary dwarf) there's a very high probability it will get done in time. If you have a lot of corpses to process, simply build a bunch of butcher and tanner workshops. -Hyndis

===Wood is useful for:===
Beds - Bins - Barrels - Spikes - Pump parts - Windmills and water wheels

-Flok Speargrabber

===Stone is good for:===

Statues - Coffers - Cabinets - Coffins - Trade goods - Doors - Floodgates - Chairs - Tables - Statues (Cheaper though) - Blocks for roads and floors (More brick-y than block-y)

-Flok Speargrabber

===Metal is good for:===
Weapons - Armor - Magma-safe pumps - Expensive statues - Noble orders, usually, unless they don't want a special metal item

-Flok Speargrabber

==Performance==

Cats are not as bad as they used to be. Now slaughtering the newborns is easy enough and with the new partial print feature, they are not the huge FPS problem they used to be. They are also, like dogs: a good source of meat and such. -Vaftrudner

Don't bother with clothes. They don't really do anything and lag your FPS because they get checked every moment. Your dwarves wont mind walking around nude and no one is going to judge them about it. (Politically it does not matter.) -motorbitch

Bring a cage. Just one. You can use it to stuff your excess creatures. Mainly anything outside two cats and maybe two dogs. -Gamerofthegame

==Special conditions==

You could bring five picks and 300 logs if you're on a treeless map. Just don't make stuff from wood if you can make them from something else. (Stockpile = bad) -Ashery

=Adding your own advice=

If you wish to add your own advice, do so in a grammatically correct manner. Links are not mandatory but desired. Remember to sign it with one space, a dash and then your name.

-NameHere

If you think the advice is poor, do not add it. The last thing Yanlin needs is more pruning of bad advice.

==Formatting==

Keep two lines of space after the advice above yours. Do not add it into the middle of the section.
Big advices deserve their own subcategory. But don't just sprinkle them around like an idiot.

Keep 3 lines of space under your advice to the next category.

All this formatting is needed so the guide does not become a hard to read wall of text.

=WIP=

This page still needs links to other articles. If you see a word or sentence that should be linked to a particular page, please add it. Make sure to tick the "This is a minor edit" button if you are not doing a big overhaul of the links.

Talk:Main Page/Quote Archive

2008-09-09T20:50:54Z

MC Dirty:

Why do people insist on putting new quotes here instead of in [[Main Page/Quote]]? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:40, 18 May 2008 (EDT)

Because [[Main Page/Quote]] is very difficult to find, and a search brings up this archive page. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]

I think it would be helpful if someone put the quotes from [[Main Page/Quote]], which are not already on this page, on this page. They're much easier to find and read here. I just started a bit.
Note: Please, do not just use the fourth column. [[User:MC Dirty|MC Dirty]] 16:50, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

Talk:Main Page/Quote Archive

2008-09-09T20:50:31Z

MC Dirty:

Main Page/Quote Archive

2008-09-09T20:46:57Z

MC Dirty:

To add new quotes, please visit the [[Main Page/Quote]] page and add it to the random script, see the '''edit''' page for instructions.

{| style="margin: 0 auto; border-spacing: 1em"

| style="vertical-align: top; padding: 0" |
{{Quote Box|Bob, Swordsman: Join me on my adventures! Joe, Mayor: I'd rather not. Joe, Mayor has bled to death.}}
{{Quote Box|"I think I'll stick to drowning dwarves and cooking puppies."}}
{{Quote Box|"I mean, how dangerous can an elephant be, anyway?"}}
{{Quote Box|Toady has created a masterpiece!}}
{{Quote Box|Is that a hammer in your ≡Giant cave spider silk trousers≡ or are you just happy to see me?}}
{{Quote Box|Do these +narrow chimpanzee leather trousers+ make me look fat?}}
{{Quote Box|This wiki menaces with spikes of bread.}}
{{Quote Box|I can't put my finger on it. Something about this [[Fire|‼]]Cat tallow roast[[Fire|‼]] tastes funny.}}
{{Quote Box|"This is why artificial intelligences won't be taking over the world within the next ten years or so: NORMAL people don't have to be TOLD not to milk a cow that's on fire!" - [[Sowelu ]]}}
{{Quote Box|Fun fact: Ditching the starting anvil for a shit ton of logs makes for a strong early defense by way of a palisade...}}
{{Quote Box|"The interface is coming - it's not coming in your lifetime but it's coming." - [[Toady One]]}}
{{Quote Box|"Preeetty much finished the first pass on religions. This release still requires buildings, migrants and hist fig finalization. None of that should be difficult, though I suspect finalization will throw a bug or two my way. I suppose that will cause me to blow apart. -[[Toady One]]}}
{{Quote Box|How to Control your Pets: It's no coincidence that 'kittens' rhymes with 'mittens'...}}
{{Quote Box|Rock nut is a plant. You can't "tame" it.}}
{{Quote Box|The default mental state of a dwarf is madness. Sanity is a temporary condition - a PRIVILEGE you have to EARN!}}

| style="vertical-align: top; padding: 0" |
{{Quote Box|Toady withdraws from society. Toady has begun a [[Strange_mood|mysterious]] construction!}}
{{Quote Box|Beware of the Elephant's greatest evolutionary trait: [[Talk:Elephant#Stealth_Elephants|Stealth]].}}
{{Quote Box|Let us never forget the last words of Inod the Stoker, [[Fortress_Paintrag#1056|"Aaah! Gorillas!"]]}}
{{Quote Box|[[Children|Newborn]] Zuglar Baldnessgranite prefers to consume Gorilla. A sure sign of his unparalleled strength!}}
{{Quote Box|[http://www.somethingawful.com/d/video-game-article/duke-nukem-image.php In an unrelated article] - I had no idea elephants could bounce that high!}}
{{Quote Box|[[Toady]] looses a roaring laughter, [[Fey|fell]] and terrible! Toady has butchered a spammer!}}
{{Quote Box|[[Elephant]]s are like huge, wrinkly [[ambusher|ninjas]].}}
{{Quote Box|Tobul Dumatfath, Fisherdwarf cancels Fish: Interrupted by [[carp]].}}
{{Quote Box|The critical question is this''':''' do dead elf bones yield more crossbow bolts than the average number of bolts necessary to kill an elf?}}
{{Quote Box|Dev Notes''':''' Stopped booze food from melting, even though it probably should}}
{{Quote Box|"It was a funny bug -- it would just pick the first living unit in the civilization's list, regardless of what their qualifications were, drag them out of their town, and have them show up at your fortress, without actually letting them be the king." -[[Toady One]]}}
{{Quote Box|Wolf cancels Breathe: Interrupted by ≡Ash Bolt≡.}}
{{Quote Box| Who knew bridges could be such incredible killing machines?}}
{{Quote Box|Breeding is difficult when your genitalia fell off years ago.}}
{{Quote Box|Snodub was the only person in the history of the world to have "Chunky" in her name. -[[Toady One]]}}
{{Quote Box|On Core59: Random poems

"Travel quietly like a big fortress.

Ah, desolation!

All fortresses command dark, rough dwarves.

The rugged carp roughly loves the fortress."}}

| style="vertical-align: top; padding: 0" |
{{Quote Box|What is that [[magma|red stuff]] coming towards me? Oh well, I think I'll stay in this [[channel|trench-shaped]] thing.}}
{{Quote Box|“Dwarf Fortress" ... "Like chess, only with short people that can catch on [[fire]] like [[clothing|rags]] soaked in tar, and lots of [[booze]]." ... "Like chess.”}}
{{Quote Box|Dwarf Fortress has taught me that all the world's problems would be substantially reduced had our parent civilizations never minted more than four stacks of [[coins]].}}
{{Quote Box|"Tosid Idenarzes likes tentacle demons for their corrupt intentions." There! Now we've covered all of the seven deadly sins.}}
{{Quote Box|Toady One likes donors for their [http://www.bay12games.com/support.html generosity]. He absolutely detests trolls.}}
{{Quote Box|Booze does all the work in forts. Dwarves are just booze exoskeletons.}}
{{Quote Box|My unconscious and bleeding [[mayor]] just mandated the construction of some goods.}}
{{Quote Box|Remember, they are DWARVES. Dwarves are born fat. They often look like hairy spheres on their first day or so.}}
{{Quote Box|"Didn't you read the manual? He he he he... the manual... ..." -[[Toady One]]}}
{{Quote Box|"Dwarves are strange creatures who balance out at "happy" because on one hand their wife was eaten by elephants and on the other they just ate in a REALLY NICE dining room." -[[shadow_archmagi]]}}
{{Quote Box|Here we have a link to amusing quotes and important advice in the [[Main Page/Quote Archive|Quote Archive]], all of which are more important and/or funny than this one.}}
{{Quote Box|[FIREIMMUNE] makes them think that [[magma]] is safe, but it doesn't actually make them fireproof. This can lead to some rather interesting results.}}
{{Quote Box|It would be incredibly difficult and it probably wouldn't work...In other words, its absolutely dwarven!}}
{{Quote Box|(Compared to real-world years) Dwarven years are shorter. --Sowelu Very fitting to dwarves, I must add. --Sean Mirrsen}}
{{Quote Box|Making rock instruments isn't nearly as awesome as it sounds --Shandrunn}}
{{Quote Box|"...And I simply doubt we have a need for 7 fishery workers. On top of that, a second soap maker. The hell IS soap?!" --Zero}}
{{Quote Box|"The spinning Wolf left front leg strikes the wolf in the right front leg."}}
{{Quote Box|"Stopped people from giving quests to kill themselves." --[[Toady One]]}}

| style="vertical-align: top; padding: 0" |
{{Quote Box|I can just imagine a wagon throwing a tantrum and tossing all its contents at people.}}
{{Quote Box|"Madness? THIS IS DWARF FORTRESS!" -Dwarven King}}
{{Quote Box|'I wonder what would happen if I poked that elephant with a stick' - Gib Trampledmangled.}}
{{Quote Box|If in doubt, [[fluid|flood]] the fort!}}
{{Quote Box|Döbesh Udosdeb has been ecstatic lately. He was forced to eat a friend to survive. He enjoyed a truly decadent meal.}}
{{Quote Box|Zasit Anamalîth, Carpenter is throwing a tantrum!
Felsite Bridge destroyed by Zasit Anamalîth, Carpenter.
Zasit Anamalîth, Carpenter has drowned.}}
{{Quote Box|"Iron [[screw pump]] exercise equipment. Pump iron and get superdwarvenly strong!"}}
{{Quote Box|Only you can prevent fortress fires.}}
{{Quote Box|On the assumption that there is something scarier than a hydra out there.

''Your in-laws have arrived from Shinthumtobul Imketh.''}}
{{Quote Box|'Leader' Igëratìr, Clerk has created Razuk Lanzil, an Obsidian Crown!" -"I think the leader business is getting to his head!}}
{{Quote Box|If cow cheese is made from cow's milk, what is dwarven cheese made of?}}
{{Quote Box|"Damn, isn't there a way to start out where fights aren't like a coin toss?" "Ironically enough, tossing coins is among one of the most effective forms of combat."}}
{{Quote Box|The violence, aggression, pain, madness, sadness of the ASCII characters never ceases to amaze me...}}
{{Quote Box|M.C. Hammerer. "You, peasant! Thou hast stolen a possession of a nobledwarf, and must be punished!" "What? B-but I didn't-" "Silence, knave! I shall teach you not to steal!" *SMACK* "CAN'T TOUCH THIS!" *SMACK* "CAN'T TOUCH THAT!" *SMACK* Etc...}}
{{Quote Box|"What happened in 1048?" "Jreengus occurred."}}
{{Quote Box|"Well, that goblin master lasher was nice to my dwarf, in a way - he handed the guy a ballgag before the lashings began..."}}
{{Quote Box|"So they'd be shooting things, and suddenly they'd go STOP! HAMMERTIME!"}}
{{Quote Box|"Does not the book of Armok state that "thou shalt not covet thy neighbours burning trousers, for he who does shall surely perish in flames?"}}
<!-- WAIT A MOMENT! Don't at another quote here. Look at the title! This is the archive. It's nothing but old stuff. Instead, add your quote to this page: http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Page/Quote --!>

<div style="float: left; margin-right: 1em">
[[Category:Humor and stories]]

40d:Things to Do

2008-09-09T20:41:27Z

MC Dirty:

'''The basic point of Fortress mode is:'''
*Build/[[dig]] a place for your dwarves to work and live
*Ensure survivability by providing [[food]] and [[water]]/[[alcohol|drink]] for every dwarf
*Provide basic comfort by building [[bed]]s/[[Bedroom|quarter]]s, a [[dining room]]
*Defend your fortress ([[trap]]s/[[military]])
*From the way Toady implements some features, have a lot of (twisted) [[fun]]
*Accumulate [[wealth]]
*Build and sustain a bustling fortress full 200 dwarf fortress (this is already a bit "optional")

Most people prefer to do some/most of these steps:
*Expand the cave to have own specific areas for specific purposes ([[Bedroom]]s, [[workshops]], [[farm]]s etc)
*Create various items for exporting ([[Trade]])
*Create a working [[military]]
*Dig out the wealth of the mountain/ground (Mainly [[platinum]], [[gold]], [[gem]]s, [[adamantine]] etc)
*Create luxury for your dwarves and a generally grand and nicely smoothed fortress
*Generally make your fort self-sustaining and self-supplied
*Experiment with and experience the full depth of all game features
*Kill Elves
*Create the worlds largest Brewery
*Profit!

Beyond this, it's really up to your own imagination what you wish to do. After all, this game is a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbox_game sandbox game]. The possibilities are endless.
If you feel the need to play a more goal-based game, then check out the list of [[game goals]] for suggestions.

{{Game Basics FAQ}}

40d Talk:Stone

2008-08-21T16:10:10Z

MC Dirty:

== 'Stone is divided into a few key categories:' ==
The statement that stone is divided into a few key categories means the categories are arranged in such a way so that each stone is in exactly one of them. "Metal ores", "gems" and "other stone" is one example of such a division. "Metal ores", "gems", and "economic stones" is an example of something that isn't. This is because everything that is a metal ore is also an economic stone. Here are two possible divisions:
#Economic stone
#Gems
#Other

#Ores
#Gems
#Other
In one case 'other' is everything that isnt economic or a gem. In the other case other is everything that isnt an ore or a gem. Since eventually more types of stone will have special uses, and the economic stone feature may be expanded to include everything, I think the second division is better. Thoughts? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:03, 28 January 2008 (EST)

==Old stuff==
=== Where did the ore and economic stones go? ===
I've moved the [[economic stone]] and [[ore]] categories to their own articles, as was suggested. I've reorganized this to reflect the change [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:38, 6 November 2007 (EST)
:Oh! and if someone decides to make the ores redirect to the [[ore]] page instead of the [[stone]] page, keep in mind that it would be nicer of you to turn them into something like [[malachite]] instead [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:42, 6 November 2007 (EST)

I notice that [[Economic stone]] lists economic + metal ores, my edit to the stone page
divides it as the stockpiles do. -- infinity

Is there any kind of stone that isn't mineable? If not, then I don't think that "Mineable Stone" makes sense as a section header. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 13:36, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Good point, I think I was trying to separate that from "soil" and other things that don't leave behind anything ... I shouldn't edit so early in the morning. --[[User:Infinity|Infinity]] 20:45, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Now all we need is graphical representations! [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 16:24, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

What about ICE BLOCKS? those count as stones for some purposes. --[[User:Thehunterunseen|Thehunterunseen]] 19:27, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:I haven't been able to get my dorfs to do anything with ice blocks yet. Haven't managed them to go down (or up) the stairs into the frozen river I had anyway, so... (I was explicitly trying NOT to mine out the side of it)--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 00:48, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

Shouldn't raw adamantine be under metal ore as opposed to "other stone"? --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 00:43, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:It's probably due to where it's grouped in the raws. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 14:40, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

Why are we listing [[platinum nuggets]] instead of [[native platinum]], when talking about it in it's unmined state? --[[User:Trukkle|Trukkle]] 10:23, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

I am thinking about implementing a more detailed table style for this area. The existing tables are nice, but there should be much more information on this page. Perhaps something like this:

{| border = 1
|-
! Name !! Tile !! Type !! Uses
|-
| Olivine || sytle="padding:0" | [[Image:olivine_raw.gif]][[Image:olivine_stone.gif]] || Generic || Stoneworking
|}

What do you guys think? [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 15:41, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:I really like that, Schm0 --[[User:Tracker|Tracker]] 18:29, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
::I agree it looks good, but can it be accomplished without using gifs? we have a raw tile template so we could do something like this:

{| border = 1 cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5"
|-
! style="background:#efefef;" | Name
! style="background:#efefef;" | Tiles
! style="background:#efefef;" | Type
! style="background:#efefef;" | Uses
! style="background:#efefef;" | Value
|-
| Olivine
| {{Raw Tile|%|#0B0|#000}} {{Raw Tile|•|#0B0|#000}} {{Raw Tile|╬|#0B0|#000}}{{Raw Tile|║|#0B0|#000}}{{Raw Tile|═|#0B0|#000}}
| Generic
| Stoneworking
| 1
|-
| Microcline
| {{Raw Tile|%|#66B|#000}} {{Raw Tile|•|#66B|#000}} {{Raw Tile|╬|#66B|#000}}{{Raw Tile|║|#66B|#000}}{{Raw Tile|═|#66B|#000}}
| Generic
| Stoneworking
| 1
|-
| Native Platinum (Raw) | Platinum Nuggets (Mined)
| {{Raw Tile|*|#FFF|#000}} {{Raw Tile|•|#FFF|#000}} {{Raw Tile|╬|#FFF|#000}}{{Raw Tile|║|#FFF|#000}}{{Raw Tile|═|#FFF|#000}}
| Metal Ore
| Stoneworking, Smelting
| 40
|}
--[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 06:10, 5 November 2007 (EST)

Someone, with correct formatting, add this to the bottom of the page. http://idisk.mac.com/fire_drake-Public/DF_StoneOre_Table.htm -penguin
: I'd try, but what does the 'V' or 'C' mean in the table? --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 10:06, 4 November 2007 (EST)
:: "vein" and "cluster" [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 17:29, 4 November 2007 (EST)
: Okay, I've added something like it with some of my own formatting through a program, but it will still need a lot of cleanup. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 17:53, 4 November 2007 (EST)

=== Individual pages ===

I'm of the opinion that [[ore]]s and [[economic stone]]s should probably get their own page, but the rest can just redirect here. There just isn't much to say about [[cryolite]] or [[jet]]. They're rocks, they have about such-and-such a value, the end. How about it? --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:59, 4 November 2007 (EST)

:Yes, the pages about the all the stones in the 'other stone' category should be deleted, any information about them can just be included in the table on this page. All the info from the raws is now summed up in the table. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 21:06, 4 November 2007 (EST)

::Instead of deleting, let's redirect to this page. Just replace them with <nowiki>#REDIRECT [[Stone]]. (The #R button above the edit box helps with this.)</nowiki> --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 22:13, 4 November 2007 (EST)

On different note, I think that Ores should be on a separate page to Stone. I don't consider 'Ore' to be stone, although I agree there is little difference in the way that stones and ore operate in the game. One alternative; add information about metal ores to the [[metal]]s page, which doesn't exist at the moment, ores could more usefully redirect there. I was trying to find out what metals tetrahedtrite produced by starting on the metal page, but found no reference. I was then confused to find myself redirect from ores to stones. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 21:09, 6 November 2007 (EST)
:'''An ore''': ''A mineral or an aggregate of minerals from which a valuable constituent, especially a metal, can be profitably mined or extracted.'' [http://www.answers.com/ore Answers.com/ore]
:Perhaps you would have found the [[tetrahedrite]] page helpful. (look at the beautiful template) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:18, 6 November 2007 (EST)
::Unfortunately, not all of the ores have beautiful templated pages like that just yet. You can help [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:21, 6 November 2007 (EST)
:I did see the tetrahedrite page eventually, it was very plush. I look forward to the other ores exhibiting a similar likeness. :) --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]

Does anyone know what calcareous ooze is, or what siliceous ooze is? It's listed as a stone under the stockpile menu. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 02:27, 23 November 2007 (EST)

=== Stones water permeability ===

hi all! can someone tell me where I can find water permeability of stone?

I didn´t find it...

and could someone tell me how mica wall reacts on water? (I am looking for the cave river...digging nets and such stuff)—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:EdwinBG2|EdwinBG2]] ([[User talk:EdwinBG2|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/EdwinBG2|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
:The types of stone listed as an aquifer are permeable and those that aren't aren't. The only two types of stone aquifer are [[sandstone]] and [[conglomerate]]. If that doesn't help, you may be asking about a feature I have't heard of yet; could you explain? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:02, 24 December 2007 (EST)

::ok thank you! that was exacly what I meant! I risk it...(could be a sea and my legendary miner is dead...no risk no fun!)

== Petrified wood ==

does petrified wood count as wood or stone? also, does it count as fire-safe?--[[User:0todd0|0todd0]] 21:57, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Stone

2008-08-21T15:23:45Z

MC Dirty: