Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.31 Talk:Modding guide

2010-12-05T02:02:30Z

MadGreyOne: Created page with '==What can/cannot be modded== I don't see any information in mechanism modding. So far I'm assuming that's because they are not(yet at least) moddable. I've looked through the ra…'

==What can/cannot be modded==
I don't see any information in mechanism modding. So far I'm assuming that's because they are not(yet at least) moddable. I've looked through the raws pretty thoroughly, and searched the bay12 forum mod section. I do see the raw for editing the mechanism components, what i'd like to be able to do is define my own mechanisms etc. Am I just missing something obvious? --[[User:MadGreyOne|MadGreyOne]]

v0.31 Talk:Soap

2010-12-02T04:05:26Z

MadGreyOne: /* Still bugged? */

I was under the impression that soap is bugged very badly right now. Specifically, with the introduction of the new "glob" unit, soap is now produced in globs, but every potential use for soap is programmed to use bars. This can be easily fixed:

Open reaction_other.txt in your save raws and/or default raws folder and change

Code: [Select]

[PRODUCT:100:1:GLOB:NONE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:B:SOAP_MAT]to

Code: [Select]

[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NONE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:B:SOAP_MAT]

: With the bugfix version, soap is now in bars. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 16:44, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Fox the Undead, http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=52996.0

If someone wants to post this on the main page, go ahead. I'm still new here and I don't want to mess anything up.

-[[User:Theothersteve7|Theothersteve7]] 15:23, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

== This command must be entered through the Manager ==

Why doesn't the Soap Maker allow you to add the task directly? Isn't this a bug missing from the Bug section of the page?

[[User:Neebat|Neebat]] 18:08, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

== Is Soap needed? ==

More specifically what happens if your hospital zone has no soap?
:Wounded dwarves won't be cleaned, which (probably) leads to an infection which is very bad. --[[Special:Contributions/dUMBELLS|dUMBELLS]] 05:31, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
::Actually they will be cleaned but only with water. It probably is more likely they will get an infection without soap. --[[Special:Contributions/202.124.123.107|202.124.123.107]] 03:01, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Yeah, this happened to me, where I had a legendary mason who was injured in a cave-in, and was all patched up and casted at the hospital, but went from faint to pale and then died while resting. The announcement said he died from infection. I decided to try making soap after that one.

==Soap Quality Question==

Does soap have quality modifiers (like food and statues) or not (like coke and cut gems)? That is to say, do I need to pay attention to the skill levels of my soapmakers?

== Buckets? ==
My dwarves put lye in buckets, but the soaper cancels, asking for lye bearing '''barrel'''.

Will they fill the lye in barrels when i have 5? or 10? --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.121.225|92.202.121.225]] 00:02, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
:They'll do it once there's an empty (or lye-containing) barrel sitting in a Food stockpile which accepts lye, though it may take a while before a dwarf takes the initiative to actually '''do''' it. A single barrel should be able to hold up to 100 units of lye, assuming it hasn't changed since 40d. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 00:06, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
::I think I've discovered a bit of a bug in regards to this. Dwarves use buckets to clean patients and provide water to wounded & prisoners... but this doesn't use up the entire bucket of water, leaving you with a bucket containing "stagnant water [x]". Lye-makers don't care that the bucket has water in it, so they go ahead and put lye into it, giving you a bucket with both water and lye. Then, said bucket sits in your ashery. Why? Dwarves who want to empty out the lye see the water and forget it, while dwarves who want to use up the water see the lye and forget that. It might've been fixed after .31.04 (what I'm playing with right now). --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 21:52, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

:::I'm running .12 and have the same problem. [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 01:37, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

::: And again in .14 an .15 (though I hadn't figured out how the buckets were getting filled). What's worse, you can't dump the liquid any more than you can dump blood or ichor out of a barrel. --[[User:Romeofalling|Romeofalling]] 07:24, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
::::Still an issue in .16; I'm attempting to get around this by designating a burrow containing an ash stockpile, an empty barrel stockpile, and an empty bucket stockpile, in addition to the ashery, wood furnace, and carpenter's shop. We'll see how this works. [[User:Ademrudin|Ademrudin]] 04:52, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

== Pets ==

I have several pets (cats and racoons seen so far) carrying around bars of soap in their mouths. I am not sure if it is their "cleaning" task or if it is something else. [[User:Matakuka|Matakuka]] 13:04, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

==how much soap is used==
After using some soap does it get used up?

==Still bugged?==
I'm having no problems with soap in my fortress, I've got soap, I've got dorfs and pets, but no error message spam. I am getting an unable to reach area clean self error, but I'm pretty sure that's cause I need another well or ten, since there's only two tiles that can access my current well.

As far as the lye bucket/barrel issue, I usually use magma forges, so I prefer not to burn wood anyways(not an elf or anything, just would rather use the results of my clearcutting for furniture and cages etc), I just embark with 10 to 25 lye, and request it each time from the caravan, and I've never needed to make any. I'm not even sure of all the steps actually.

I'm using the latest release.--[[User:MadGreyOne|MadGreyOne]]
: The "Urist cancels Clean Self: Area Inaccessible" ''is'' the error message spam currently associated with soap. [[User:Niveras|Niveras]] 01:27, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: Yeah, I'm noticing now, I was confused by the talk about pets carrying soap in their mouth because the mouth was the only part needing cleaned on the dwarfs generating messages. Then I saw some bloody eyeballs etc too. I have still not seen it from pets, but I'm using cages to keep FPS up so maybe I'm just missing them. Hmmm, makes me wonder if dwarfs have an aversion to washing thier mouths out with soap. I know I wouldn't want to. Great, now we need toothpaste too. Come on guys, you're dwarves that blood in your mouth, that's for next time you get thirsty, haven't you ever gone adventuring. --[[User:MadGreyOne|MadGreyOne]]

v0.31 Talk:Soap

2010-12-01T22:54:50Z

MadGreyOne: /* Still bugged? */

v0.31 Talk:Soap

2010-12-01T22:47:49Z

MadGreyOne:

v0.31 Talk:Trading

2010-12-01T18:21:26Z

MadGreyOne: /* Random breaking of "Trader Requested at Depot"? */

==Colors of Containers==
Question regarding the coloring of the items being traded, It says that items in white are are created by a source other then your fortress, while brown is fortress created goods. In my first trade with the dwarven caravan two goods I know I created, a barrel holding donkey cheese and a barrel with cow's milk were colored in white. I mean, it's not exactly an issue, but is this because they an animal derived source or what? --[[User:AdmiralDread|AdmiralDread]] 05:15, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:I believe for liquids in barrels it looks at whether you made the barrel, not the contents. Perhaps for all barrel items, I'm not sure. I personally don't trade food or drinks --[[User:Todestool|Todestool]] 14:49, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:The color of a container is based on what it's made of. Anything made from [[tower cap]] will be white. Normal wood is brown. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 02:29, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
::Note that AD was talking about the color displayed in the trading screen, not the color of the item. Any container will display according to the origin of the container, regardless of the contents. So your barrel was foreign (listed in white), despite the fact that the cheese was local. When you (v)iew the item, the contents are listed, colored according to their origin (regardless of the container's origin). [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 01:14, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

==No Dwarves==
It seems to be possible in DF2010 to have no trade from the dwarves. If their civilization is too small to have any leaders of note, then there will be no caravans.

==Vermin in caravans?==
I wanted to release the bought warthogs out of their cages, tame bats and fluffy wamblers were in my list. I haven´t caught any vermin yet, so I put them in that cage, too. When I looked at the (elven) caravan they "stole" the vermin from them. Anyone has seen this, too?
:I can confirm that elven caravans offer cages containing vermin. This vermin isn't shown in thr trade screen list, unless you view these cages separately. This vermin is ''not'' shown in your animal list of the status screen (hit {{k|z}} and then {{k|return}} to get there). It ''is'', however, shown in the list of creatures assignable to a cage. (hit {{k|q}}, select a cage, hit {{k|a}}, and there they are.) --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 17:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
::I agree. The cages are not labeled as anything but normal cages. However, if you view the item in the trade depot screen ({k|v} when highlighting the "empty" cage) the vermin will be shown as a content.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 16:29, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

==No Wagons with Caravans==
I never had wagons with DF2010. Is it just me or is there something needed except a 3wide path to one edge? Its always there and there is never a caravan with wagons, only with traders!--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 20:32, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
: I've not had wagons in this current fort either. Think it may be because I'm in a mountain biome...--[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 10:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

::Yes, Wagons are out for now. This is most likely a bug as the access check screen is still in. Hm..or not? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 20:00, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
:::They're still in the raws - see creature_equipment.txt. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
::::It still checks if a wagon could make it to the dapot, but for me a caravan (Without wagons obviously) went through a two-wide tunnel[[User:GiantTiger11|GiantTiger11]] 08:01, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

== Late caravan ==

The caravan used to arrive for me at exactly mid-autumn. I got my caravan in the new version at just a few days before autumn ended. Is this the case with everyone? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:56, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
:can confirm, caravans now always come late. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 14:08, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
::maybe this is intentional as a "delay" from where they travel from? --[[User:Eroing|Eroing]] 17:41, 17 April 2010 (CET)
:::It's <s>my first Mid-Winter</s> the spring of the year after embarking now and i haven't seen just a wheel. Should I begin to worry? --[[User:Gnarker|Gnarker]] 11:37, 30 May 2010 (CEST)

== Merchants going underground. ==

I just had a dwarven caravan leave the fortress through an underground edge of the map. Spawned from the top though.--[[User:Droid|Droid]] 04:07, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
: In my fortress even an elven caravan took the way through the caverns! --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 07:57, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
: Confirmed. Humans entered from the top, and left through the first cavern. Killed an Serpent man tribe on the way out. 05:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

== Multiple Trade Depots ==

Has there been any change for this?

== Traders go insane and starve ==

"If a caravan has arrived at your trade depot and is unable to leave for about six months after they arrived, the merchants and animals will go insane. This can result in a bunch of merchants attacking your dwarves, or just standing around moping until they starve to death."
Is this correct? Traders can starve? Or do they only gain the ability to starve when insane?
:I've only had this happen once. They went crazy after a while, and then starved. I don't know if it was exactly six months, but probably similar time scale. Experiment. Try locking the caravan on your map. Find out if it is really 6 months, if they go crazy, stave, and what happens!--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
: Verified (in .13.12), caravan (and their pack animals) went insane, they could not handle 1-tile wide bridges over our river. Probably expected 3-6 tiles wide bridges! Looks like they drop their items upon going insane.--[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 23:00, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== First Caravan Brings Nothing? ==

I've had this happen twice, where the dwarven caravan brings a whole lot of nothing. Is this to be expected? I generaqlly give them something nyways, in hope that the next year will be better.

== No Dwarven Caravan ==

I'm in mid-summer of my third year and the only caravans I have been getting have been elven ones once a year. I Still haven't had a dwarven caravan show up ever. In the Civ screen it says that there are no important people in the civ.

My first year I got 7 migrants in total and haven't got any since. Does this mean my parent civ has been eradicated?
--[[User:Flying Dwarves Hurt|Flying Dwarves Hurt]] 14:13, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:The same thing happened to me. My fortress is in a "small region"-sized world-- I'm beginning to wish I'd paid more attention while the world was created; maybe there just aren't any other dwarves inside it?

== Caravan leaving through cave ==

I just had a caravan leave through a cave. I had a clear path to a ground exit from my trade depot, even for wagons. This was not the case for the cave level, as it was only reachable by stairs. I don't know if this is a bug or not. Strange, anyhow. /[[User:Josj|Josj]] 06:20, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
:Probably not a bug, as such. Firstly, because caravans don't currently use wagons, but only pack animals, they can path up and down stairs. Secondly... they probably picked the shortest path to an exit, and that just happened to be the cave level. Was the ground exit on the other side of the screen, or temporarily blocked by a drawbridge or something? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 18:24, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
::The ground exit was quite close--about a screen away from the depot. It could've been temporarily blocked by a barrage of haulers or something. I don't quite remember. But it would have had to be blocked as they went down some fifty levels or so. Even if the caravan used my traffic designations (which I don't believe they do) that wouldn't have been a closer route. It makes me wonder if it's possible for the caravans to appear in the caves. /[[User:Josj|Josj]] 19:00, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

== Forbidden Depots ==
I used the ' d:b:f ' command to forbid all items on my depot so that they would not have to haul all the stuff back, subsequently forbidding the 3 pieces mahogany that made up the depot itself. When the human caravan showed up, the game gave me a message that said they need a depot to trade at. I used the ' t ' command to unforbid each piece, and they instantly started to move to it. This might be worth mentioning as a troubleshooter, or something, if I can get confirmation on it. --[[User:Bungler|Bungler]] 03:45, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
:I can confirm that behavior. I used it all the time in 40d.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
::I had traders go insane, probably because the depot was bulk-forbidden. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 20:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Traders taking forever to load up==
The other lifesaver I found on this wiki somewhere relates to when you are trading a large number of items. I had the problem where caravans would take months and months to load up and get out. Once this lead to two caravans being on the map at the same time, (humans and dwarfs, I think) trying to load/unload at the same time and it was a mess (FPS suffered, too) However, there is way to prevent this. Pause the game after you get the "caravan has embarked" message, then go do {{k|d}}-{{k|t}} to designate trees (or mining, or whatever) and then hold down the mouse button. Watch the depot at the same time and you'll see the items dance as they get loaded up while the game is paused. Once the depot stops blinking, they're done and you can let go of the mouse. It took my traders 1.5 minutes real life to load up. But, then they take off on their merry way.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

== Accessible and Inaccessible Depots ==

Im very new to the game and have been having trouble with making my depot wagon-accessible.

In the wiki it says that a 3-square wide corridor is needed to fit a trade wagon through(XWX in the D overlay). My problem is that Ive made a corridor 3 squares wide to my depot, but with the D command it still says my depot is inaccessible.

In the D overlay should there be 3 W makers side by side(XWWWX) for the depot to be accessible? If this is the case then the hall needs to be 5 squares wide...

Whatever the fix is, its not clear/helpful on the wiki. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:173.217.232.2|173.217.232.2]]
:The D overlay only requires a path of Ws '''one''' tile wide, but it must be continuous and orthogonal (i.e. no diagonal-only gaps). Trace it out from the depot to find what's blocking the rest of the way (probably a boulder or a tree outside). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:22, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
::You might need to smooth some boulders, cut down some trees, or add some ramps.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
== Experience ==
From the article: ''Several small trades, exiting the trade window each time, will increase the Broker's relevant skills during the early game. ''
This isn't true for 40d. The experience was based solely on the number and value of the items brought by the trade caravan once a single trade was completed. Has this changed for 31.xx?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
:Agreed. But the biggest thing was that it seemed like if you made that first trade for ''exactly'' 30%, your trader could get immense experience, even legendary. But it didn't seem to work when I tried it in .12 of late. [[User:Dorf and Dumb|Dorf and Dumb]] 05:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

My experience, when I've checked through dwarf therapist, is that a dwarf will get points in appraisal once, and only once, some time (within seconds) after the completion of the first trade with a particular caravan. Tested using dwarfs with 0 experience in appraisal, haven't tested if changing dwarfs at the trade depot will allow you to train more than one dwarf per caravan, will do so later today, if future caravans remain free of goblins/magma/other fun.--[[User:MadGreyOne|MadGreyOne]] 17:25, 1 December 2010 (UTC) Or they gain their experience on the first time looking at the goods, as I now remember it saying, somewhere... only one dwarf per caravan though =( And no experience gains shown at all for trading of items, so unless someone has seen clear evidence of multiple trades boosting experience gains we should probably remove that line.--[[User:MadGreyOne|MadGreyOne]]

== Random breaking of "Trader Requested at Depot"? ==

I have the Broker's labors all turned off barring cleaning and the default health care entries. When a caravan arrives, he'll happily ignore my initial switching of the Depot status requesting his presence and continue to haul items to the depot (despite having all hauling labors off). I have to toggle it back to not requested and then back to requested and he's fine, he'll sit and trade...for a while. Then if he goes to get a drink, eat, or sleep, his action when he gets up will be to haul items again. Anyone else having this issue? [[User:Chronin|Chronin]] 18:46, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

:Never have "only broker" set. It slows things down, and the benefit is, you don't get more than one dorf trained with appraiser skill (which means if the broker dies, you don't even see a price on anything). And the other benefit is, you can drive a harder bargain with the traders and therefore not get as much stuff brought in next time. What's the point? [[User:Dorf and Dumb|Dorf and Dumb]] 05:27, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

:almost all dwarves "bring items to depot", I guess it's part of the non-toggleable jobs. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 21:03, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

: Even after turning off all other jobs, including hauling, I still get this problem. Even after confining him to a burrow consisting of nothing but the Depot, he'll still try to run off. The best solution is to request him as soon as the caravan is on the map, and it'll slide to the top of his job queue before it's gone. If you make a trade, he may run off again, so you might want to wait until everything you're trading away is there. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 14:10, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

:I'm not certain(otherwise known as WAG time), but it seems like the trade at depot job doesn't become a priority until everything marked pending for trade has been hauled to the depot.--[[User:MadGreyOne|MadGreyOne]]

== Emergency Supplies ==

It's fairly well known that caravans will bring lots of wooden logs if you don't have any in your fortress (including machine parts) or if you've forbidden all of them (something I've personally used numerous times - in my latest fort in 0.31.12, I managed to get elven and human caravans to bring over 200 logs each). It might be worth testing to see if caravans bring "emergency supplies" of things other than wooden logs - when I cooked all of my meat into prepared meals, the next human caravan decided to bring over 200 stacks of meat and prepared organs (it was enough to instantly overfill both of my 11x11 meat stockpiles, since my barrels were all full of booze). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:37, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
:I believe I've got reasonable evidence that meat '''is''' considered an emergency good - when the human caravan arrived, the first horse was loaded up with wood logs and plants (which I had requested from the modded-in guild representative) and tons of meat (which I did '''not''' request), and the second horse was loaded up with a bunch more meat finally followed by several bins of cloth and leather, and the 3rd horse was carrying the rest of the leather; the rest of the caravan also held some stacks of random types of meat. Normally, binned goods are loaded at maximum priority, but liaison requests and emergency supplies both seem to override that. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:24, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
::A quick test suggests that there are quite a few other emergency supplies - when I forbade '''everything''' in my fortress just before the Elven caravan arrived, the first horse was carrying nothing but plants, and the 2nd horse was carrying 50 bins of cloth plus lots of wooden logs, the 3rd horse was carrying the rest of the logs and the mostly normal trade goods, and the 4th horse had the usual assortment. Repeating with everything unforbidden resulted in a much more "normal" caravan - 5 horses carrying 12 ropes, 9 instruments, 12 toys, 10 pets (7 large creatures, 3 vermin), 11 cages, 21 booze barrels, 18 empty barrels, 8 buckets, 7 weapons, 12 body armor, 8 pairs of footwear, 13 shields, 8 headgear, 12 pairs of handwear, 11 seed bags, 10 mill bags (all dye), 12 sand bags, 13 empty bags, 14 bins of cloth (all of which were on the first horse), 8 crafts, 13 stacks of arrows, 24 stacks of plants, 11 threads, 10 legwear, 11 splints, and 6 crutches. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:40, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

== recent trading changes? ==

Has anyone else seen changes to the way traders trade? Looks to me like in .31.16 (as compared to .12) the acceptable markup is much higher (45% compared to as little as 10-15%), and appraisal and other broker experience seems to be deferred now (appraisal skill not rising with each trade anymore, it rises sometime after the caravan leaves)[[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 01:04, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== King offering ==

It looks like an offering of 5k is required to promote the city from barony. I sure would like to verify, but goblin seiges have pre-empted the liaison visits since becoming a barony. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 13:29, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

== No Elven Cloth? ==

Something very interesting has happened in my current fortress - last Autumn, I captured a giant cave spider and started a silk farm, and so far I've woven over 200 pieces of cloth (and have plenty of thread ready to weave), and the Elven caravan just arrived in the Spring with '''zero bins of cloth''' (and about 11 of everything else they usually bring). Maybe they were only bringing cloth in the first place because I wasn't producing any of my own? Maybe they brought it as emergency supplies? More testing is definitely in order. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:16, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Tunnel paths? ==

There's a few spots on this page and others where it mentions caravans coming from the edge of the map, and some people mentioning underground tunnels, but the game wont let me mine at the edge of the map, am I misinterpreting things or is that info out of date?--[[User:Twilightdusk|Twilightdusk]] 03:04, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

:You can't mine the edge of the map, but you ''can'' dig a tunnel all the way up to 1 square away, ending in a ramp to the surface. I think that's what the "Caravan Delay" section is suggesting. Also, above-ground walls and drawbridges cannot be built within 5 squares of the edge, but ''below'' ground ones can. Finally, if you've opened the caverns, it's reported (though I haven't seen it) that caravans can enter or exit there, so you may (or may not, I haven't tested this) be able to build a reasonably safe exit down there - i.e. you could wall up a path all the way to the edge - unless of course that Forgotten Beast happens to enter just where and when the caravan is exiting... [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 08:16, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Trading

2010-12-01T18:19:20Z

MadGreyOne: /* Experience */

==Colors of Containers==
Question regarding the coloring of the items being traded, It says that items in white are are created by a source other then your fortress, while brown is fortress created goods. In my first trade with the dwarven caravan two goods I know I created, a barrel holding donkey cheese and a barrel with cow's milk were colored in white. I mean, it's not exactly an issue, but is this because they an animal derived source or what? --[[User:AdmiralDread|AdmiralDread]] 05:15, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:I believe for liquids in barrels it looks at whether you made the barrel, not the contents. Perhaps for all barrel items, I'm not sure. I personally don't trade food or drinks --[[User:Todestool|Todestool]] 14:49, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:The color of a container is based on what it's made of. Anything made from [[tower cap]] will be white. Normal wood is brown. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 02:29, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
::Note that AD was talking about the color displayed in the trading screen, not the color of the item. Any container will display according to the origin of the container, regardless of the contents. So your barrel was foreign (listed in white), despite the fact that the cheese was local. When you (v)iew the item, the contents are listed, colored according to their origin (regardless of the container's origin). [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 01:14, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

==No Dwarves==
It seems to be possible in DF2010 to have no trade from the dwarves. If their civilization is too small to have any leaders of note, then there will be no caravans.

==Vermin in caravans?==
I wanted to release the bought warthogs out of their cages, tame bats and fluffy wamblers were in my list. I haven´t caught any vermin yet, so I put them in that cage, too. When I looked at the (elven) caravan they "stole" the vermin from them. Anyone has seen this, too?
:I can confirm that elven caravans offer cages containing vermin. This vermin isn't shown in thr trade screen list, unless you view these cages separately. This vermin is ''not'' shown in your animal list of the status screen (hit {{k|z}} and then {{k|return}} to get there). It ''is'', however, shown in the list of creatures assignable to a cage. (hit {{k|q}}, select a cage, hit {{k|a}}, and there they are.) --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 17:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
::I agree. The cages are not labeled as anything but normal cages. However, if you view the item in the trade depot screen ({k|v} when highlighting the "empty" cage) the vermin will be shown as a content.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 16:29, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

==No Wagons with Caravans==
I never had wagons with DF2010. Is it just me or is there something needed except a 3wide path to one edge? Its always there and there is never a caravan with wagons, only with traders!--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 20:32, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
: I've not had wagons in this current fort either. Think it may be because I'm in a mountain biome...--[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 10:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

::Yes, Wagons are out for now. This is most likely a bug as the access check screen is still in. Hm..or not? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 20:00, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
:::They're still in the raws - see creature_equipment.txt. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
::::It still checks if a wagon could make it to the dapot, but for me a caravan (Without wagons obviously) went through a two-wide tunnel[[User:GiantTiger11|GiantTiger11]] 08:01, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

== Late caravan ==

The caravan used to arrive for me at exactly mid-autumn. I got my caravan in the new version at just a few days before autumn ended. Is this the case with everyone? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:56, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
:can confirm, caravans now always come late. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 14:08, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
::maybe this is intentional as a "delay" from where they travel from? --[[User:Eroing|Eroing]] 17:41, 17 April 2010 (CET)
:::It's <s>my first Mid-Winter</s> the spring of the year after embarking now and i haven't seen just a wheel. Should I begin to worry? --[[User:Gnarker|Gnarker]] 11:37, 30 May 2010 (CEST)

== Merchants going underground. ==

I just had a dwarven caravan leave the fortress through an underground edge of the map. Spawned from the top though.--[[User:Droid|Droid]] 04:07, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
: In my fortress even an elven caravan took the way through the caverns! --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 07:57, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
: Confirmed. Humans entered from the top, and left through the first cavern. Killed an Serpent man tribe on the way out. 05:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

== Multiple Trade Depots ==

Has there been any change for this?

== Traders go insane and starve ==

"If a caravan has arrived at your trade depot and is unable to leave for about six months after they arrived, the merchants and animals will go insane. This can result in a bunch of merchants attacking your dwarves, or just standing around moping until they starve to death."
Is this correct? Traders can starve? Or do they only gain the ability to starve when insane?
:I've only had this happen once. They went crazy after a while, and then starved. I don't know if it was exactly six months, but probably similar time scale. Experiment. Try locking the caravan on your map. Find out if it is really 6 months, if they go crazy, stave, and what happens!--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
: Verified (in .13.12), caravan (and their pack animals) went insane, they could not handle 1-tile wide bridges over our river. Probably expected 3-6 tiles wide bridges! Looks like they drop their items upon going insane.--[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 23:00, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== First Caravan Brings Nothing? ==

I've had this happen twice, where the dwarven caravan brings a whole lot of nothing. Is this to be expected? I generaqlly give them something nyways, in hope that the next year will be better.

== No Dwarven Caravan ==

I'm in mid-summer of my third year and the only caravans I have been getting have been elven ones once a year. I Still haven't had a dwarven caravan show up ever. In the Civ screen it says that there are no important people in the civ.

My first year I got 7 migrants in total and haven't got any since. Does this mean my parent civ has been eradicated?
--[[User:Flying Dwarves Hurt|Flying Dwarves Hurt]] 14:13, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:The same thing happened to me. My fortress is in a "small region"-sized world-- I'm beginning to wish I'd paid more attention while the world was created; maybe there just aren't any other dwarves inside it?

== Caravan leaving through cave ==

I just had a caravan leave through a cave. I had a clear path to a ground exit from my trade depot, even for wagons. This was not the case for the cave level, as it was only reachable by stairs. I don't know if this is a bug or not. Strange, anyhow. /[[User:Josj|Josj]] 06:20, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
:Probably not a bug, as such. Firstly, because caravans don't currently use wagons, but only pack animals, they can path up and down stairs. Secondly... they probably picked the shortest path to an exit, and that just happened to be the cave level. Was the ground exit on the other side of the screen, or temporarily blocked by a drawbridge or something? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 18:24, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
::The ground exit was quite close--about a screen away from the depot. It could've been temporarily blocked by a barrage of haulers or something. I don't quite remember. But it would have had to be blocked as they went down some fifty levels or so. Even if the caravan used my traffic designations (which I don't believe they do) that wouldn't have been a closer route. It makes me wonder if it's possible for the caravans to appear in the caves. /[[User:Josj|Josj]] 19:00, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

== Forbidden Depots ==
I used the ' d:b:f ' command to forbid all items on my depot so that they would not have to haul all the stuff back, subsequently forbidding the 3 pieces mahogany that made up the depot itself. When the human caravan showed up, the game gave me a message that said they need a depot to trade at. I used the ' t ' command to unforbid each piece, and they instantly started to move to it. This might be worth mentioning as a troubleshooter, or something, if I can get confirmation on it. --[[User:Bungler|Bungler]] 03:45, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
:I can confirm that behavior. I used it all the time in 40d.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
::I had traders go insane, probably because the depot was bulk-forbidden. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 20:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Traders taking forever to load up==
The other lifesaver I found on this wiki somewhere relates to when you are trading a large number of items. I had the problem where caravans would take months and months to load up and get out. Once this lead to two caravans being on the map at the same time, (humans and dwarfs, I think) trying to load/unload at the same time and it was a mess (FPS suffered, too) However, there is way to prevent this. Pause the game after you get the "caravan has embarked" message, then go do {{k|d}}-{{k|t}} to designate trees (or mining, or whatever) and then hold down the mouse button. Watch the depot at the same time and you'll see the items dance as they get loaded up while the game is paused. Once the depot stops blinking, they're done and you can let go of the mouse. It took my traders 1.5 minutes real life to load up. But, then they take off on their merry way.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

== Accessible and Inaccessible Depots ==

Im very new to the game and have been having trouble with making my depot wagon-accessible.

In the wiki it says that a 3-square wide corridor is needed to fit a trade wagon through(XWX in the D overlay). My problem is that Ive made a corridor 3 squares wide to my depot, but with the D command it still says my depot is inaccessible.

In the D overlay should there be 3 W makers side by side(XWWWX) for the depot to be accessible? If this is the case then the hall needs to be 5 squares wide...

Whatever the fix is, its not clear/helpful on the wiki. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:173.217.232.2|173.217.232.2]]
:The D overlay only requires a path of Ws '''one''' tile wide, but it must be continuous and orthogonal (i.e. no diagonal-only gaps). Trace it out from the depot to find what's blocking the rest of the way (probably a boulder or a tree outside). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:22, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
::You might need to smooth some boulders, cut down some trees, or add some ramps.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
== Experience ==
From the article: ''Several small trades, exiting the trade window each time, will increase the Broker's relevant skills during the early game. ''
This isn't true for 40d. The experience was based solely on the number and value of the items brought by the trade caravan once a single trade was completed. Has this changed for 31.xx?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
:Agreed. But the biggest thing was that it seemed like if you made that first trade for ''exactly'' 30%, your trader could get immense experience, even legendary. But it didn't seem to work when I tried it in .12 of late. [[User:Dorf and Dumb|Dorf and Dumb]] 05:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

My experience, when I've checked through dwarf therapist, is that a dwarf will get points in appraisal once, and only once, some time (within seconds) after the completion of the first trade with a particular caravan. Tested using dwarfs with 0 experience in appraisal, haven't tested if changing dwarfs at the trade depot will allow you to train more than one dwarf per caravan, will do so later today, if future caravans remain free of goblins/magma/other fun.--[[User:MadGreyOne|MadGreyOne]] 17:25, 1 December 2010 (UTC) Or they gain their experience on the first time looking at the goods, as I now remember it saying, somewhere... only one dwarf per caravan though =( And no experience gains shown at all for trading of items, so unless someone has seen clear evidence of multiple trades boosting experience gains we should probably remove that line.--[[User:MadGreyOne|MadGreyOne]]

== Random breaking of "Trader Requested at Depot"? ==

I have the Broker's labors all turned off barring cleaning and the default health care entries. When a caravan arrives, he'll happily ignore my initial switching of the Depot status requesting his presence and continue to haul items to the depot (despite having all hauling labors off). I have to toggle it back to not requested and then back to requested and he's fine, he'll sit and trade...for a while. Then if he goes to get a drink, eat, or sleep, his action when he gets up will be to haul items again. Anyone else having this issue? [[User:Chronin|Chronin]] 18:46, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

:Never have "only broker" set. It slows things down, and the benefit is, you don't get more than one dorf trained with appraiser skill (which means if the broker dies, you don't even see a price on anything). And the other benefit is, you can drive a harder bargain with the traders and therefore not get as much stuff brought in next time. What's the point? [[User:Dorf and Dumb|Dorf and Dumb]] 05:27, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

:almost all dwarves "bring items to depot", I guess it's part of the non-toggleable jobs. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 21:03, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

: Even after turning off all other jobs, including hauling, I still get this problem. Even after confining him to a burrow consisting of nothing but the Depot, he'll still try to run off. The best solution is to request him as soon as the caravan is on the map, and it'll slide to the top of his job queue before it's gone. If you make a trade, he may run off again, so you might want to wait until everything you're trading away is there. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 14:10, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

== Emergency Supplies ==

It's fairly well known that caravans will bring lots of wooden logs if you don't have any in your fortress (including machine parts) or if you've forbidden all of them (something I've personally used numerous times - in my latest fort in 0.31.12, I managed to get elven and human caravans to bring over 200 logs each). It might be worth testing to see if caravans bring "emergency supplies" of things other than wooden logs - when I cooked all of my meat into prepared meals, the next human caravan decided to bring over 200 stacks of meat and prepared organs (it was enough to instantly overfill both of my 11x11 meat stockpiles, since my barrels were all full of booze). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:37, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
:I believe I've got reasonable evidence that meat '''is''' considered an emergency good - when the human caravan arrived, the first horse was loaded up with wood logs and plants (which I had requested from the modded-in guild representative) and tons of meat (which I did '''not''' request), and the second horse was loaded up with a bunch more meat finally followed by several bins of cloth and leather, and the 3rd horse was carrying the rest of the leather; the rest of the caravan also held some stacks of random types of meat. Normally, binned goods are loaded at maximum priority, but liaison requests and emergency supplies both seem to override that. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:24, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
::A quick test suggests that there are quite a few other emergency supplies - when I forbade '''everything''' in my fortress just before the Elven caravan arrived, the first horse was carrying nothing but plants, and the 2nd horse was carrying 50 bins of cloth plus lots of wooden logs, the 3rd horse was carrying the rest of the logs and the mostly normal trade goods, and the 4th horse had the usual assortment. Repeating with everything unforbidden resulted in a much more "normal" caravan - 5 horses carrying 12 ropes, 9 instruments, 12 toys, 10 pets (7 large creatures, 3 vermin), 11 cages, 21 booze barrels, 18 empty barrels, 8 buckets, 7 weapons, 12 body armor, 8 pairs of footwear, 13 shields, 8 headgear, 12 pairs of handwear, 11 seed bags, 10 mill bags (all dye), 12 sand bags, 13 empty bags, 14 bins of cloth (all of which were on the first horse), 8 crafts, 13 stacks of arrows, 24 stacks of plants, 11 threads, 10 legwear, 11 splints, and 6 crutches. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:40, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

== recent trading changes? ==

Has anyone else seen changes to the way traders trade? Looks to me like in .31.16 (as compared to .12) the acceptable markup is much higher (45% compared to as little as 10-15%), and appraisal and other broker experience seems to be deferred now (appraisal skill not rising with each trade anymore, it rises sometime after the caravan leaves)[[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 01:04, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== King offering ==

It looks like an offering of 5k is required to promote the city from barony. I sure would like to verify, but goblin seiges have pre-empted the liaison visits since becoming a barony. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 13:29, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

== No Elven Cloth? ==

Something very interesting has happened in my current fortress - last Autumn, I captured a giant cave spider and started a silk farm, and so far I've woven over 200 pieces of cloth (and have plenty of thread ready to weave), and the Elven caravan just arrived in the Spring with '''zero bins of cloth''' (and about 11 of everything else they usually bring). Maybe they were only bringing cloth in the first place because I wasn't producing any of my own? Maybe they brought it as emergency supplies? More testing is definitely in order. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:16, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Tunnel paths? ==

There's a few spots on this page and others where it mentions caravans coming from the edge of the map, and some people mentioning underground tunnels, but the game wont let me mine at the edge of the map, am I misinterpreting things or is that info out of date?--[[User:Twilightdusk|Twilightdusk]] 03:04, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

:You can't mine the edge of the map, but you ''can'' dig a tunnel all the way up to 1 square away, ending in a ramp to the surface. I think that's what the "Caravan Delay" section is suggesting. Also, above-ground walls and drawbridges cannot be built within 5 squares of the edge, but ''below'' ground ones can. Finally, if you've opened the caverns, it's reported (though I haven't seen it) that caravans can enter or exit there, so you may (or may not, I haven't tested this) be able to build a reasonably safe exit down there - i.e. you could wall up a path all the way to the edge - unless of course that Forgotten Beast happens to enter just where and when the caravan is exiting... [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 08:16, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Trading

2010-12-01T17:25:46Z

MadGreyOne: /* Experience */

==Colors of Containers==
Question regarding the coloring of the items being traded, It says that items in white are are created by a source other then your fortress, while brown is fortress created goods. In my first trade with the dwarven caravan two goods I know I created, a barrel holding donkey cheese and a barrel with cow's milk were colored in white. I mean, it's not exactly an issue, but is this because they an animal derived source or what? --[[User:AdmiralDread|AdmiralDread]] 05:15, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:I believe for liquids in barrels it looks at whether you made the barrel, not the contents. Perhaps for all barrel items, I'm not sure. I personally don't trade food or drinks --[[User:Todestool|Todestool]] 14:49, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
:The color of a container is based on what it's made of. Anything made from [[tower cap]] will be white. Normal wood is brown. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 02:29, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
::Note that AD was talking about the color displayed in the trading screen, not the color of the item. Any container will display according to the origin of the container, regardless of the contents. So your barrel was foreign (listed in white), despite the fact that the cheese was local. When you (v)iew the item, the contents are listed, colored according to their origin (regardless of the container's origin). [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 01:14, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

==No Dwarves==
It seems to be possible in DF2010 to have no trade from the dwarves. If their civilization is too small to have any leaders of note, then there will be no caravans.

==Vermin in caravans?==
I wanted to release the bought warthogs out of their cages, tame bats and fluffy wamblers were in my list. I haven´t caught any vermin yet, so I put them in that cage, too. When I looked at the (elven) caravan they "stole" the vermin from them. Anyone has seen this, too?
:I can confirm that elven caravans offer cages containing vermin. This vermin isn't shown in thr trade screen list, unless you view these cages separately. This vermin is ''not'' shown in your animal list of the status screen (hit {{k|z}} and then {{k|return}} to get there). It ''is'', however, shown in the list of creatures assignable to a cage. (hit {{k|q}}, select a cage, hit {{k|a}}, and there they are.) --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 17:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
::I agree. The cages are not labeled as anything but normal cages. However, if you view the item in the trade depot screen ({k|v} when highlighting the "empty" cage) the vermin will be shown as a content.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 16:29, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

==No Wagons with Caravans==
I never had wagons with DF2010. Is it just me or is there something needed except a 3wide path to one edge? Its always there and there is never a caravan with wagons, only with traders!--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 20:32, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
: I've not had wagons in this current fort either. Think it may be because I'm in a mountain biome...--[[User:Nimblewright|Nimblewright]] 10:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

::Yes, Wagons are out for now. This is most likely a bug as the access check screen is still in. Hm..or not? --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 20:00, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
:::They're still in the raws - see creature_equipment.txt. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
::::It still checks if a wagon could make it to the dapot, but for me a caravan (Without wagons obviously) went through a two-wide tunnel[[User:GiantTiger11|GiantTiger11]] 08:01, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

== Late caravan ==

The caravan used to arrive for me at exactly mid-autumn. I got my caravan in the new version at just a few days before autumn ended. Is this the case with everyone? [[User:Greep|Greep]] 03:56, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
:can confirm, caravans now always come late. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 14:08, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
::maybe this is intentional as a "delay" from where they travel from? --[[User:Eroing|Eroing]] 17:41, 17 April 2010 (CET)
:::It's <s>my first Mid-Winter</s> the spring of the year after embarking now and i haven't seen just a wheel. Should I begin to worry? --[[User:Gnarker|Gnarker]] 11:37, 30 May 2010 (CEST)

== Merchants going underground. ==

I just had a dwarven caravan leave the fortress through an underground edge of the map. Spawned from the top though.--[[User:Droid|Droid]] 04:07, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
: In my fortress even an elven caravan took the way through the caverns! --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 07:57, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
: Confirmed. Humans entered from the top, and left through the first cavern. Killed an Serpent man tribe on the way out. 05:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

== Multiple Trade Depots ==

Has there been any change for this?

== Traders go insane and starve ==

"If a caravan has arrived at your trade depot and is unable to leave for about six months after they arrived, the merchants and animals will go insane. This can result in a bunch of merchants attacking your dwarves, or just standing around moping until they starve to death."
Is this correct? Traders can starve? Or do they only gain the ability to starve when insane?
:I've only had this happen once. They went crazy after a while, and then starved. I don't know if it was exactly six months, but probably similar time scale. Experiment. Try locking the caravan on your map. Find out if it is really 6 months, if they go crazy, stave, and what happens!--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
: Verified (in .13.12), caravan (and their pack animals) went insane, they could not handle 1-tile wide bridges over our river. Probably expected 3-6 tiles wide bridges! Looks like they drop their items upon going insane.--[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 23:00, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== First Caravan Brings Nothing? ==

I've had this happen twice, where the dwarven caravan brings a whole lot of nothing. Is this to be expected? I generaqlly give them something nyways, in hope that the next year will be better.

== No Dwarven Caravan ==

I'm in mid-summer of my third year and the only caravans I have been getting have been elven ones once a year. I Still haven't had a dwarven caravan show up ever. In the Civ screen it says that there are no important people in the civ.

My first year I got 7 migrants in total and haven't got any since. Does this mean my parent civ has been eradicated?
--[[User:Flying Dwarves Hurt|Flying Dwarves Hurt]] 14:13, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

:The same thing happened to me. My fortress is in a "small region"-sized world-- I'm beginning to wish I'd paid more attention while the world was created; maybe there just aren't any other dwarves inside it?

== Caravan leaving through cave ==

I just had a caravan leave through a cave. I had a clear path to a ground exit from my trade depot, even for wagons. This was not the case for the cave level, as it was only reachable by stairs. I don't know if this is a bug or not. Strange, anyhow. /[[User:Josj|Josj]] 06:20, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
:Probably not a bug, as such. Firstly, because caravans don't currently use wagons, but only pack animals, they can path up and down stairs. Secondly... they probably picked the shortest path to an exit, and that just happened to be the cave level. Was the ground exit on the other side of the screen, or temporarily blocked by a drawbridge or something? --[[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 18:24, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
::The ground exit was quite close--about a screen away from the depot. It could've been temporarily blocked by a barrage of haulers or something. I don't quite remember. But it would have had to be blocked as they went down some fifty levels or so. Even if the caravan used my traffic designations (which I don't believe they do) that wouldn't have been a closer route. It makes me wonder if it's possible for the caravans to appear in the caves. /[[User:Josj|Josj]] 19:00, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

== Forbidden Depots ==
I used the ' d:b:f ' command to forbid all items on my depot so that they would not have to haul all the stuff back, subsequently forbidding the 3 pieces mahogany that made up the depot itself. When the human caravan showed up, the game gave me a message that said they need a depot to trade at. I used the ' t ' command to unforbid each piece, and they instantly started to move to it. This might be worth mentioning as a troubleshooter, or something, if I can get confirmation on it. --[[User:Bungler|Bungler]] 03:45, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
:I can confirm that behavior. I used it all the time in 40d.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
::I had traders go insane, probably because the depot was bulk-forbidden. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 20:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

== Traders taking forever to load up==
The other lifesaver I found on this wiki somewhere relates to when you are trading a large number of items. I had the problem where caravans would take months and months to load up and get out. Once this lead to two caravans being on the map at the same time, (humans and dwarfs, I think) trying to load/unload at the same time and it was a mess (FPS suffered, too) However, there is way to prevent this. Pause the game after you get the "caravan has embarked" message, then go do {{k|d}}-{{k|t}} to designate trees (or mining, or whatever) and then hold down the mouse button. Watch the depot at the same time and you'll see the items dance as they get loaded up while the game is paused. Once the depot stops blinking, they're done and you can let go of the mouse. It took my traders 1.5 minutes real life to load up. But, then they take off on their merry way.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

== Accessible and Inaccessible Depots ==

Im very new to the game and have been having trouble with making my depot wagon-accessible.

In the wiki it says that a 3-square wide corridor is needed to fit a trade wagon through(XWX in the D overlay). My problem is that Ive made a corridor 3 squares wide to my depot, but with the D command it still says my depot is inaccessible.

In the D overlay should there be 3 W makers side by side(XWWWX) for the depot to be accessible? If this is the case then the hall needs to be 5 squares wide...

Whatever the fix is, its not clear/helpful on the wiki. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:173.217.232.2|173.217.232.2]]
:The D overlay only requires a path of Ws '''one''' tile wide, but it must be continuous and orthogonal (i.e. no diagonal-only gaps). Trace it out from the depot to find what's blocking the rest of the way (probably a boulder or a tree outside). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 01:22, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
::You might need to smooth some boulders, cut down some trees, or add some ramps.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
== Experience ==
From the article: ''Several small trades, exiting the trade window each time, will increase the Broker's relevant skills during the early game. ''
This isn't true for 40d. The experience was based solely on the number and value of the items brought by the trade caravan once a single trade was completed. Has this changed for 31.xx?--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 18:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
:Agreed. But the biggest thing was that it seemed like if you made that first trade for ''exactly'' 30%, your trader could get immense experience, even legendary. But it didn't seem to work when I tried it in .12 of late. [[User:Dorf and Dumb|Dorf and Dumb]] 05:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

My experience, when I've checked through dwarf therapist, is that a dwarf will get points in appraisal once, and only once, some time (within seconds) after the completion of the first trade with a particular caravan. Tested using dwarfs with 0 experience in appraisal, haven't tested if changing dwarfs at the trade depot will allow you to train more than one dwarf per caravan, will do so later today, if future caravans remain free of goblins/magma/other fun.--[[User:MadGreyOne|MadGreyOne]] 17:25, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

== Random breaking of "Trader Requested at Depot"? ==

I have the Broker's labors all turned off barring cleaning and the default health care entries. When a caravan arrives, he'll happily ignore my initial switching of the Depot status requesting his presence and continue to haul items to the depot (despite having all hauling labors off). I have to toggle it back to not requested and then back to requested and he's fine, he'll sit and trade...for a while. Then if he goes to get a drink, eat, or sleep, his action when he gets up will be to haul items again. Anyone else having this issue? [[User:Chronin|Chronin]] 18:46, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

:Never have "only broker" set. It slows things down, and the benefit is, you don't get more than one dorf trained with appraiser skill (which means if the broker dies, you don't even see a price on anything). And the other benefit is, you can drive a harder bargain with the traders and therefore not get as much stuff brought in next time. What's the point? [[User:Dorf and Dumb|Dorf and Dumb]] 05:27, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

:almost all dwarves "bring items to depot", I guess it's part of the non-toggleable jobs. --[[User:TomiTapio|TomiTapio]] 21:03, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

: Even after turning off all other jobs, including hauling, I still get this problem. Even after confining him to a burrow consisting of nothing but the Depot, he'll still try to run off. The best solution is to request him as soon as the caravan is on the map, and it'll slide to the top of his job queue before it's gone. If you make a trade, he may run off again, so you might want to wait until everything you're trading away is there. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 14:10, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

== Emergency Supplies ==

It's fairly well known that caravans will bring lots of wooden logs if you don't have any in your fortress (including machine parts) or if you've forbidden all of them (something I've personally used numerous times - in my latest fort in 0.31.12, I managed to get elven and human caravans to bring over 200 logs each). It might be worth testing to see if caravans bring "emergency supplies" of things other than wooden logs - when I cooked all of my meat into prepared meals, the next human caravan decided to bring over 200 stacks of meat and prepared organs (it was enough to instantly overfill both of my 11x11 meat stockpiles, since my barrels were all full of booze). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:37, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
:I believe I've got reasonable evidence that meat '''is''' considered an emergency good - when the human caravan arrived, the first horse was loaded up with wood logs and plants (which I had requested from the modded-in guild representative) and tons of meat (which I did '''not''' request), and the second horse was loaded up with a bunch more meat finally followed by several bins of cloth and leather, and the 3rd horse was carrying the rest of the leather; the rest of the caravan also held some stacks of random types of meat. Normally, binned goods are loaded at maximum priority, but liaison requests and emergency supplies both seem to override that. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 04:24, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
::A quick test suggests that there are quite a few other emergency supplies - when I forbade '''everything''' in my fortress just before the Elven caravan arrived, the first horse was carrying nothing but plants, and the 2nd horse was carrying 50 bins of cloth plus lots of wooden logs, the 3rd horse was carrying the rest of the logs and the mostly normal trade goods, and the 4th horse had the usual assortment. Repeating with everything unforbidden resulted in a much more "normal" caravan - 5 horses carrying 12 ropes, 9 instruments, 12 toys, 10 pets (7 large creatures, 3 vermin), 11 cages, 21 booze barrels, 18 empty barrels, 8 buckets, 7 weapons, 12 body armor, 8 pairs of footwear, 13 shields, 8 headgear, 12 pairs of handwear, 11 seed bags, 10 mill bags (all dye), 12 sand bags, 13 empty bags, 14 bins of cloth (all of which were on the first horse), 8 crafts, 13 stacks of arrows, 24 stacks of plants, 11 threads, 10 legwear, 11 splints, and 6 crutches. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:40, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

== recent trading changes? ==

Has anyone else seen changes to the way traders trade? Looks to me like in .31.16 (as compared to .12) the acceptable markup is much higher (45% compared to as little as 10-15%), and appraisal and other broker experience seems to be deferred now (appraisal skill not rising with each trade anymore, it rises sometime after the caravan leaves)[[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 01:04, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

== King offering ==

It looks like an offering of 5k is required to promote the city from barony. I sure would like to verify, but goblin seiges have pre-empted the liaison visits since becoming a barony. [[User:Uzu Bash|Uzu Bash]] 13:29, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

== No Elven Cloth? ==

Something very interesting has happened in my current fortress - last Autumn, I captured a giant cave spider and started a silk farm, and so far I've woven over 200 pieces of cloth (and have plenty of thread ready to weave), and the Elven caravan just arrived in the Spring with '''zero bins of cloth''' (and about 11 of everything else they usually bring). Maybe they were only bringing cloth in the first place because I wasn't producing any of my own? Maybe they brought it as emergency supplies? More testing is definitely in order. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:16, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Tunnel paths? ==

There's a few spots on this page and others where it mentions caravans coming from the edge of the map, and some people mentioning underground tunnels, but the game wont let me mine at the edge of the map, am I misinterpreting things or is that info out of date?--[[User:Twilightdusk|Twilightdusk]] 03:04, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

:You can't mine the edge of the map, but you ''can'' dig a tunnel all the way up to 1 square away, ending in a ramp to the surface. I think that's what the "Caravan Delay" section is suggesting. Also, above-ground walls and drawbridges cannot be built within 5 squares of the edge, but ''below'' ground ones can. Finally, if you've opened the caverns, it's reported (though I haven't seen it) that caravans can enter or exit there, so you may (or may not, I haven't tested this) be able to build a reasonably safe exit down there - i.e. you could wall up a path all the way to the edge - unless of course that Forgotten Beast happens to enter just where and when the caravan is exiting... [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 08:16, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Nether-cap

2010-12-01T12:30:26Z

MadGreyOne:

Do nether-cap logs inherit the fixed temperature of the nether-cap tree?--[[User:DarthCloakedDwarf|DarthCloakedDwarf]] 03:15, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the more important question is "Since Nethercaps are chilled to 32 degrees F (if I did the math right), will submerged Nnethercaps cause water to freeze into ice?" I only wish I could test this right now. [[User:Coaldiamond|-Coaldiamond]] 17:14, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Likely not - items melt/boil at their melting/boiling points, as opposed to freezing/condensing at them. For example, an object with a melting point of 12345 will be solid at 12344 and liquid at 12345. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:41, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
::Created a completely nethercap pump and have had it pumping magma for ages now, still no signs of deconstruction or damage, whatsoever. --[[User:MLegion|MLegion]] 20:59, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
:::Pump got submerged totally still no damage. --[[User:MLegion|MLegion]] 21:13, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
::::Will items and liquids in a nether-cap barrel always maintain it's temperature? If so - totally fire-safe way of storing food and booze is in such barrels... submerged under magma. Metal barrels don't catch fire themselves but would eventually boil/char their contents. Imagine showing foreign diplomats a magma-filled room and saying: "This is our strategic booze reserve".--[[User:Another|Another]] 22:14, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
:::::I just tried using a nether-cap floodgate with magma and not only did it not burn up, but it also seemed to stop its (magma-unsafe) granite mechanisms from melting. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 18:00, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

So, has anyone tested if nether caps freeze water? Or if they can be made to freeze water without harming dorfs attempting to carry them? I'd test my self but haven't gotten that far deep with current fort. Also too lazy too mod so I can embark with right now.--[[User:MadGreyOne|MadGreyOne]] 12:30, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Advanced world generation

2010-10-18T01:40:06Z

MadGreyOne: /* Log Reject Reasons */

This page needs some grammar checking. I don't have enough experience with the latest version to correct it though. Is there a tag or template I should add for this type of error? --[[User:Altaree|Altaree]] 13:10, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

I cleaned up the Cavern Parameters section, based on some worldgen testing. Seems like some of the info was wrong, although it might just be referring to events later in the game - it was a little hard to parse. Still not sure what the z-levels section is supposed to mean, so I left it alone. --[[User:Runcible_spoon|Runcible_spoon]] 15:32, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

The options in the "z-levels" section seem to refer to how much rock there is between cavern features. See http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=20638.msg1135248#msg1135248. That said, I'm still unsure quite how the 'huge' underground is genned - modifying some of the default templates only ended up with ca 50 underground levels. More testing needed, evidently. --[[Special:Contributions/87.194.186.154|87.194.186.154]] 11:12, 5 May 2010 (UTC) BertieB
:D'oh! I was confused by the info on the page and thought there were only 5 possible levels for each z-level item, when on checking there are actually up to 100 possible. Smashing! --[[Special:Contributions/87.194.186.154|87.194.186.154]] 11:17, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
:This needs more testing, but I'm led to believe that the first option, LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1 affects in fact the number of layers between the last rock layer and the first cavern layer, ie. the height of the cavern. I bumped it up to 20 and ended up with a few ridiculously high caverns. --[[User:Alkarlosse|Alkarlosse]] 11:10, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

== Log Reject Reasons ==

Hi, how do I get a log of why each map was rejected during worldgen?--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 18:18, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

:I hope you've already found the answer to this, but just in-case anyone else comes along looking for the answer, the setting is in the "d_init.txt" file, the output is generated in "map_rejection_log.txt" in the main DF folder.--[[User:MadGreyOne|MadGreyOne]] 01:40, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

== Spoiler Hidden? You mean Spoiler Missing! ==

There are a couple of "Spoiler Hidden" tags in the Z Levels table, suggesting it was copied from a forum post without some of the important information. --[[User:Danaris|Danaris]] 17:54, 13 October 2010 (UTC)