Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.31 Talk:Farming

2010-08-25T21:32:56Z

Malibu Stacey:

== General ==

Placing a farm on rock
Needs Soil or mud
No Mud for underground farm
Mud is left by water

Placing a farm on surface soil
No Mud for underground farm
Mud is left by water

Placing a farm on mud found in an underground complex
<<No Error Message>>

So This is either a major bug, or a mechanics change and a minor text inconsistency.[[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 22:35, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

:This is a bug. You're supposed to be able to farm on soil. I'll try to track down the forum thread, one moment --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 22:37, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

:Aha, so saith the Baughn: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51951.msg1123336#msg1123336
:--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 22:41, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
::Who is but a lowly dabbling SDL coder and has not insight into the game code or Toady's intentions.--[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 15:31, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Toady confirmed it too, you realize. Twice.--[[Special:Contributions/174.113.156.80|174.113.156.80]] 01:33, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
::::Quote from: Dr. A - "Farm plots built underground (Inside/Dark/Subterranean) on natural soil will not allow planting"
::::Reply from: Toady One - "I'm not sure yet. I never get a chance to look at it, despite wanting to look at it. The original idea was to require a soil wall beneath a mudless square for it to be farmable, and if it isn't that way, it's a bug. Either way, it is somewhat confusing, because you wouldn't be able to farm in one layer of soil. I'm not sure you should be able to, morally speaking, especially with the underground trees, but it's probably less confusing that way." from http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62202.msg1424098#msg1424098
::::I shall give this some testing over the next few days to see if a farm on top of a soil wall will allow planting of underground crops without being muddied first.--[[User:Malibu Stacey|Malibu Stacey]] 21:32, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

== Seeds can not be grown on non-soil, non-subterranean tiles ==

I recently attempted to follow the advice in the article, channeling out several tiles near a river, irrigating them, and building a farm plot on the muddied tiles. However, when I tried to set the field to be planted, all seeds (surface AND subterranean) are disabled, and the message "No seeds available for this location" is displayed. The soil layer, as it turns out, was only one tile thick, and even though the tiles are "above ground" (not even indoors yet, I haven't built a roof over them), they are ineligible for any seeds to be planted on... subterranean crops because the tiles are above ground, and surface crops because the floors are mud-covered diorite instead of one of the clay/sand/soil types.

So, be warned... attempting to create an indoor, irrigated surface crop farm will not work if you accidentally channel down to stone. Surface crops will not grow in mud-covered rock, only in soil (mud-covered or otherwise). --[[User:Tatterdemalian|Tatterdemalian]] 22:09, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
:Have same problem... did you dig out the level below your "aboveground" farm? I did (z1 and z2 dug out) and I remember towercaps and the lot can't grow unless they have a floor tiles and wall below (z1 dug out but not z2), perhaps crops follow the same rules? I'll test this.--[[Special:Contributions/99.67.238.66|99.67.238.66]] 05:54, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
::I just encountered this issue (version 31.04) but in a slightly different context. I dug out four rooms underground in sand, did *not* dig out the tiles underneath, built 4 farms on the sand without irigating, and then got the message that that there are "No seeds available for this location", despite having just embarked with many seeds. Maybe I'll try tearing down the farms and irrigating first. --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 17:55, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
:::DF2010 requires farms to have mud whether on rock or soil layers. Cheers--[[Special:Contributions/99.67.238.66|99.67.238.66]] 00:50, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::::Technically, it’s the bug that requires it (if I’m reading all the information correctly). It seems that DF 2010 is supposed to allow farms on soil regardless of mud. (Am I right, or is this actually intended behaviour?) I had thought that the bug was that you couldn’t build the farms without the mud, but that doesn’t appear to be the case. You can build the farms just fine, but the code doesn’t appear to “see” any valid seeds to plant after they are built.
::::I tore down my farms (successfully built on soil without mud), flooded the area, and then built them again and sure enough the farms now “see” the seeds I have. --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 19:54, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::I thought that farms not growing without mud underground was a purposeful change on Toady's part. I suppose I assumed that because of how subterranean trees only grow in muddied soil. Also you don't have to have mud, above ground farms accept all the correct seeds if on soil that issn't irrigated. --[[Special:Contributions/99.67.238.66|99.67.238.66]] 22:00, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::Hmmm. I thought that the only reason mud was needed for the underground trees was because they were on rock, not soil. Regardless, after testing it out, here's what I found:
::::::- You can *build* a farm on any soil (above ground or below)
::::::- Only the farm built above ground will "see" any available seeds (assuming no mud)
::::::- You can build an underground farm on soil and muddy the ground *afterward*
::::::- You can build a farm on part muddied ground and part soil and it will be able to "see" available seeds. HOWEVER, your dwarves will only plant on the muddied part of the farm.
::::::- Water both provides mud *and* washes it away. If you build an underground room with a hole in the ceiling and mark that hole with a "pond" zone so your dwarves bring water to it and dump the water in the room, you will see piles of mud appear on some of the tiles and be washed off of others (no idea what determines which of the two happen).
::::::And that was the extent of my testing. --[[User:Frewfrux|Frewfrux]] 01:47, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

::::::: Finally got around to trying to build a farm on muddied soil above-ground with a natural wall on the next level down. Testing shows that no seeds can be used on such terrain. So for DF2010 above-ground farms must be built on soil (muddied or unmuddied) and underground farms can grow on any terrain as long as the tiles are muddy. Above-ground farms will not work on muddied rock tiles. I'll go ahead and add this to the actual page.--[[Special:Contributions/99.67.238.66|99.67.238.66]] 21:05, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

== Merge ==
I don't see why we need a separate page for [[Farm Plot]] and [[Farming]]. Merger anyone? [[User:Kenji 03|Kenji 03]] 12:28, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:Also, labors are typically described in their respective skill page. In this case, [[DF2010:Farmer|Farmer]] --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 13:05, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
::Both pages exist as full pages in the 40d namespace, in addition to a farmer page. This suggests that there is sufficient material for all three pages, although someone would need to spend more time reviewing how the topic space was divided in 40d to figure out why. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:44, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

::Farming describes the concept, plant uses, importance, possibilities and caveats; Overview. Farm plot goes right down to 'key-pressing' and 'cursor-moving', that is, details and step-to-step. Ultimately it is an article on a building. I don't recall ever using the page Farm plot, but I think we should keep the 2. Looking over the old versions, I think the distinction should be made clearer, though. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 14:34, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

:::I agree, but with all the new info and users this approach seems not viable for now. --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 18:56, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

== Farming Chart ==

[[Image:Df-crops-diagram.png|thumb|200px|General farming flowchart.]]
I found this chart to the right in the 40d farming page. I was just wondering if it is still current, so we can put it in the current page.

== Harvesting ==
Probably it ought to be noted that if your dwarves aren't quick enough to harvest a ripe bit of crop, it will wither and become refuse (happens to me when I set "Only Farmers harvest").--[[User:FleshForge|FleshForge]] 09:52, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

== Indication of buggy behaviour ==

It's been reverted multiple times whenever someone adds the "due to a bug" statement, so I'll state my reason on why this should be made clear: new players. If someone new plays DF, they may think the irrigation process is too complex if they do it first thing. Like many of our first fortresses, farming is supposed to be a long term goal (fortress 1: farm plot built; fortress 2: plump helmet planted; fortress 3: sustainable farming; fortress 4: irrigation done) and forcing it onto them isn't a good idea, considering that it is a bug, and Toady has stated he'll look at it eventually. If nobody comes up with a good reason '''not''' to add this information, I'll re-add it. --[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] 19:56, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
:Since nobody commented, I'll re-add the bug notice. --[[User:Dree12|Dree12]] 20:52, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Container

2009-10-27T23:52:25Z

Malibu Stacey: /* Store your bloody items! */

==Changes from the old version of the Wiki==
1.This new page seems to be about two different things, 'containers' as they refer to bins and barrels (in the casual usage), and 'container' as the game uses (chests and so on.) Note that the [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Containers old wiki] devoted this page exclusively to the latter, to help people understand what was meant when a noble requested a container or when they saw containers on their stocks menu. That hasn't changed, has it? Maybe barrels, bins, etc should be excluded from this page. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 16:17, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

2.Is there still the bug where decorated barrels and bags are unusable? Please confirm.

3.Does anybody know if goblins will still stuff dwarven children into bags? That was always hilarious. Especially watching the bag-children grow up into bag-adults. --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 15:30, 9 November 2007 (EST)

4.What is a "stationary container" mentioned under Bags? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 18:05, 18 November 2007 (EST)

in reply to 3.Yer the gobbos will stuff dwarf kids into bags, tho I think the kids get outta the bags when the gobbo goes down ;). "he/she is depressed at being confined." --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 06:33, 6 February 2008 (EST)
:In reply to 2, I have several decorated barrels and bags in use. Gem-encrusted masterwork bags being used to hold wild strawberry seed... go figure. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:05, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

==Compulsive seed storage in bags==
How do you reserve bags for sand-hauling? If any empty bags sit in the glass furnaces for even a brief time a food hauler comes by and puts a seed into it, making it unusable for sand collection. I guess I could have no food haulers, but then food spoils quite quickly in the kitchens. [[User:Julius|Julius]]

:Keep a set of bags away from dwarves who are hauling seeds. Dwarves will use bags to carry (and hold) seeds, but only if the bags are along the route they're taking to store the seeds. Although it might seem like it at first, they aren't actually combing your fortress looking for bags to put one seed in. I put a bag-only stockpile along the little circuit between my sand and my glass furnaces (which is far away from any source of seeds), and have no problems.--[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 11:31, 19 January 2008 (EST)

::Tell that to the dwarves who, immediately after I followed your suggestion, ran up four flights of stairs PAST my seed stockpile to steal the empty bag next to the glass furnace. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 20:10, 20 January 2008 (EST)

::A failed Goblin ambush preceded an incredible procession of EVERYONE in my fort carrying plump helmet spawn up to the surface to store it on a Goblin corpse who was unfortunate enough to die with a leather bag in its inventory. Even people for whom everything was turned off but their related job (e.g., miners). They only forgot about the bag when I both forbade it and set it for dumping. Now I can't do anything with it. [[User:FJH|FJH]] 19:19, 17 February 2009 (EST)

:::I think this is fixed/greatly improved. Or maybe im doing smth right i did wrong before, but in 40d all my bag/seed storage problems have gone. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 12:26, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

== seeds in chests? ==
Will dwarves store seeds in bags built as chests in other dwarves' rooms? Rather, if you build a bag as a chest in a dwarf's room, will other dwarves store seeds in it? If its owner stores seeds in it, will other dwarves eat them? --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 14:44, 9 August 2008 (EDT)
:No. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 12:26, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

==leather bags==
i think there's a problem with using these for some tasks, like gathering sand, cos i had a bunch sitting in the workshop (no they werent tasked to be hauled)... anyone else confirm/deny this? [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 20:43, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

*you have a ''valid'' i-zone marked for sand collecting? (one that is placed over a tile that reads "X Sand" (not a wall) and has something other than a zero at 'sand collection (X)'?
*you have a dwarf with ''glassmaking'' enabled?
*you queued the task at a glass furnace?
*possibly bags sitting in the/a workshop might be ignored; they have to be on a furniture pile --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 09:54, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

== chest vs coffer ==

how much difference in value is there between getting a mason to make a coffer out of a gold nugget and a metalsmith to make a chest from gold metal?

Any time I'm letting a mason near native aluminium or native platinum he's usually quite skilled - so far my metalsmiths are outstripping supply of metal bars very quickly so they are still only as skilled as they were when they migrated.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:22, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

:Check the page for [[value]]. It looks like ore has the same value as the metal. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 02:08, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

== Store your bloody items! ==

My nobles and legendary whatever keep claiming random items and leave them where they lay. Supposedly it might be a problem my dwarves have the same cabinets and coffers since they might have the same room. Anything else I need to know to make my dwarves take care of their bloody belongings? Makes it difficult to place and build things. --[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 13:15, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
:Indeed, my Tax Collector has about a dozen stone earrings on the floor of her room, but won't put any of them in the two gabbro coffers in her room. Am I missing something? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:32, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
:On that note, do cabinets and coffers have a capacity, or are they wardrobes of holding? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 10:13, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
:::I believe they hold 12 items each(one screen worth)--[[User:Shoez|Shoez]] 03:20, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
: I have the same problem. My Duke has a fondness for idols & has them strewn all over his bedroom, office, dining room and burial chamber even though he has 5 coffers spread between the first 3 rooms. Not one of the coffers has a single item in it but he does manage to put his clothes in his cabinets. All other nobles including the mayor do the same but it's most apparent with the Duke and all the shell idols he keeps claiming. Looks like a bug in 40d to me. --[[User:Malibu Stacey|Malibu Stacey]] 16:00, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
:: Check your Duke's personality. See if it says anything about him being disorganized. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:07, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
::: Duke has 23 in Organization which is "very disorganized" which would go some way to explaining him but he seems to manage to put his clothes in the cabinets. Hammerer is 69 in Organized, Dungeon Master, Tax Collector & Mayor don't have organized in their traits so I'm assuming it's 50 for them yet they all have coffers with nothing in them and items strewn around their rooms and also seem to be able to use their cabinets without a problem. The same goes for the rest of my dwarven populace. I have given them all a cabinet & a coffer each in their bedrooms & they'll happily dump their worn clothes in the cabinet but other items are left all over the place & every coffer in my fort is empty. --[[User:Malibu Stacey|Malibu Stacey]] 23:51, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

== Emptying bags ==

Is there any way to essentially say "move the contents onto the floor or into another container"? As mentioned in an answer above, I have some containers which got decorated and would be worth a great deal in trade, but are currently holding food supplies. I suppose I could just sell the containers with their contents, but that seems somewhat inelegant. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:07, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:Have you tried marking the contents for dumping? I think I've used that to empty things out before. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 14:18, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

== Degrading bags ==

I am not sure if this should be mentioned here or under [[wear]] but I have noticed that bags of leaves, seeds, dye, etc. stored in barrels, inside, in designated stockpiles are subject to wear, though the contents of the bags and the barrels holding the bags are immune to wear. I am not sure if this is caused by foot traffic(though I suspect it is) or simply time as I made most of my bags in the first 5 years of my fort and I am just noticing this after year 20. I suggest a comment be added here and in the wear article as a warning, pending further investigation. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 19:43, 25 January 2009 (EST)
: Would make sense especially for seed bags. If you dwarves are continually taking stuff out & putting stuff in them they should eventually wear out due to repeated usage. --[[User:Malibu Stacey|Malibu Stacey]] 16:05, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
::It's not clear that "use" causes wear. However, walking on (some types of*) items does. It's probably the haulers walking over the bags sitting in stockpiles. (* Wood seems more resistant to wear, so barrels and bins ''may'' also wear, but just don't show it as fast - possibly not in the life of an average fortress.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:05, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

== Container Contents ==

I re-added the information about using the k-key to view container contents since the t-key method only works if the container isn't in a stockpile. --[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 18:37, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

== Something missing? ==

We've got what stockpiles they fill when full.
What stockpile is normal for them empty?
--[[User:Nightwind|Nightwind]] 19:03, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:They're furniture. Fixed.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:49, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

== Forbidding drinks ==

The problem: you have a bunch of [[dwarven wine]]. Dwarves seem to like drinking from the fullest barrels. So you have an ever-increasing need for more barrels - and an ever-increasing supply of ''dwarven wine [5]..[1]'' that isn't getting used.

How do I
* avoid throwing the wine on the ground
* forbid the barrels with the most wine in them

I have noticed that when I get it wrong I end up with a puddle of ''dwarven wine [25''.[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 07:13, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

:Dwarfs like to drink from newly filled barrels first, which tend to be the fullest. Use the z - stocks - menu; In the detailed view of 'drinks' they are sorted by content and you can forbid single barrels. Spilling of wine should not happen then but now you mention it, I think i saw odd emptying of waterskins in this version, too. Probably comes from forbidding the barrel instead of its contents? --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 10:53, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
::I read what you have said as ''forbid the barrel and the dwarves will leave the contents alone''. I think I've done this before but I know I've tried both "forbid the barrel" and "forbid the content". I'll go with the barrel. [[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 11:01, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Container

2009-10-27T23:51:39Z

Malibu Stacey: /* Store your bloody items! */

==Changes from the old version of the Wiki==
1.This new page seems to be about two different things, 'containers' as they refer to bins and barrels (in the casual usage), and 'container' as the game uses (chests and so on.) Note that the [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Containers old wiki] devoted this page exclusively to the latter, to help people understand what was meant when a noble requested a container or when they saw containers on their stocks menu. That hasn't changed, has it? Maybe barrels, bins, etc should be excluded from this page. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 16:17, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

2.Is there still the bug where decorated barrels and bags are unusable? Please confirm.

3.Does anybody know if goblins will still stuff dwarven children into bags? That was always hilarious. Especially watching the bag-children grow up into bag-adults. --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 15:30, 9 November 2007 (EST)

4.What is a "stationary container" mentioned under Bags? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 18:05, 18 November 2007 (EST)

in reply to 3.Yer the gobbos will stuff dwarf kids into bags, tho I think the kids get outta the bags when the gobbo goes down ;). "he/she is depressed at being confined." --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 06:33, 6 February 2008 (EST)
:In reply to 2, I have several decorated barrels and bags in use. Gem-encrusted masterwork bags being used to hold wild strawberry seed... go figure. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:05, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

==Compulsive seed storage in bags==
How do you reserve bags for sand-hauling? If any empty bags sit in the glass furnaces for even a brief time a food hauler comes by and puts a seed into it, making it unusable for sand collection. I guess I could have no food haulers, but then food spoils quite quickly in the kitchens. [[User:Julius|Julius]]

:Keep a set of bags away from dwarves who are hauling seeds. Dwarves will use bags to carry (and hold) seeds, but only if the bags are along the route they're taking to store the seeds. Although it might seem like it at first, they aren't actually combing your fortress looking for bags to put one seed in. I put a bag-only stockpile along the little circuit between my sand and my glass furnaces (which is far away from any source of seeds), and have no problems.--[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 11:31, 19 January 2008 (EST)

::Tell that to the dwarves who, immediately after I followed your suggestion, ran up four flights of stairs PAST my seed stockpile to steal the empty bag next to the glass furnace. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 20:10, 20 January 2008 (EST)

::A failed Goblin ambush preceded an incredible procession of EVERYONE in my fort carrying plump helmet spawn up to the surface to store it on a Goblin corpse who was unfortunate enough to die with a leather bag in its inventory. Even people for whom everything was turned off but their related job (e.g., miners). They only forgot about the bag when I both forbade it and set it for dumping. Now I can't do anything with it. [[User:FJH|FJH]] 19:19, 17 February 2009 (EST)

:::I think this is fixed/greatly improved. Or maybe im doing smth right i did wrong before, but in 40d all my bag/seed storage problems have gone. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 12:26, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

== seeds in chests? ==
Will dwarves store seeds in bags built as chests in other dwarves' rooms? Rather, if you build a bag as a chest in a dwarf's room, will other dwarves store seeds in it? If its owner stores seeds in it, will other dwarves eat them? --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 14:44, 9 August 2008 (EDT)
:No. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 12:26, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

==leather bags==
i think there's a problem with using these for some tasks, like gathering sand, cos i had a bunch sitting in the workshop (no they werent tasked to be hauled)... anyone else confirm/deny this? [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 20:43, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

*you have a ''valid'' i-zone marked for sand collecting? (one that is placed over a tile that reads "X Sand" (not a wall) and has something other than a zero at 'sand collection (X)'?
*you have a dwarf with ''glassmaking'' enabled?
*you queued the task at a glass furnace?
*possibly bags sitting in the/a workshop might be ignored; they have to be on a furniture pile --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 09:54, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

== chest vs coffer ==

how much difference in value is there between getting a mason to make a coffer out of a gold nugget and a metalsmith to make a chest from gold metal?

Any time I'm letting a mason near native aluminium or native platinum he's usually quite skilled - so far my metalsmiths are outstripping supply of metal bars very quickly so they are still only as skilled as they were when they migrated.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:22, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

:Check the page for [[value]]. It looks like ore has the same value as the metal. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 02:08, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

== Store your bloody items! ==

My nobles and legendary whatever keep claiming random items and leave them where they lay. Supposedly it might be a problem my dwarves have the same cabinets and coffers since they might have the same room. Anything else I need to know to make my dwarves take care of their bloody belongings? Makes it difficult to place and build things. --[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 13:15, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
:Indeed, my Tax Collector has about a dozen stone earrings on the floor of her room, but won't put any of them in the two gabbro coffers in her room. Am I missing something? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:32, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
:On that note, do cabinets and coffers have a capacity, or are they wardrobes of holding? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 10:13, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
:::I believe they hold 12 items each(one screen worth)--[[User:Shoez|Shoez]] 03:20, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
: I have the same problem. My Duke has a fondness for idols & has them strewn all over his bedroom, office, dining room and burial chamber even though he has 5 coffers spread between the first 3 rooms. Not one of the coffers has a single item in it but he does manage to put his clothes in his cabinets. All other nobles including the mayor do the same but it's most apparent with the Duke and all the shell idols he keeps claiming. Looks like a bug in 40d to me. --[[User:Malibu Stacey|Malibu Stacey]] 16:00, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
:: Check your Duke's personality. See if it says anything about him being disorganized. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:07, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
::: Duke has 23 in Organization which is "very disorganized" which would go some way to explaining him but he seems to manage to put his clothes in the cabinets. Hammerer is 69 in Organized, Dungeon Master, Tax Collector & Mayor don't have organized in their traits so I'm assuming it's 50 for them yet they all have coffers with nothing in them and items strewn around their rooms and also seem to be able to use their cabinets without a problem. The same goes for the rest of my dwarven populace. I have given them all a cabinet & a coffer, they'll happily dump their worn clothes in the cabinet but other items are left all over the place & every coffer is empty. --[[User:Malibu Stacey|Malibu Stacey]] 23:51, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

== Emptying bags ==

Is there any way to essentially say "move the contents onto the floor or into another container"? As mentioned in an answer above, I have some containers which got decorated and would be worth a great deal in trade, but are currently holding food supplies. I suppose I could just sell the containers with their contents, but that seems somewhat inelegant. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:07, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:Have you tried marking the contents for dumping? I think I've used that to empty things out before. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 14:18, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

== Degrading bags ==

I am not sure if this should be mentioned here or under [[wear]] but I have noticed that bags of leaves, seeds, dye, etc. stored in barrels, inside, in designated stockpiles are subject to wear, though the contents of the bags and the barrels holding the bags are immune to wear. I am not sure if this is caused by foot traffic(though I suspect it is) or simply time as I made most of my bags in the first 5 years of my fort and I am just noticing this after year 20. I suggest a comment be added here and in the wear article as a warning, pending further investigation. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 19:43, 25 January 2009 (EST)
: Would make sense especially for seed bags. If you dwarves are continually taking stuff out & putting stuff in them they should eventually wear out due to repeated usage. --[[User:Malibu Stacey|Malibu Stacey]] 16:05, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
::It's not clear that "use" causes wear. However, walking on (some types of*) items does. It's probably the haulers walking over the bags sitting in stockpiles. (* Wood seems more resistant to wear, so barrels and bins ''may'' also wear, but just don't show it as fast - possibly not in the life of an average fortress.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:05, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

== Container Contents ==

I re-added the information about using the k-key to view container contents since the t-key method only works if the container isn't in a stockpile. --[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 18:37, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

== Something missing? ==

We've got what stockpiles they fill when full.
What stockpile is normal for them empty?
--[[User:Nightwind|Nightwind]] 19:03, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:They're furniture. Fixed.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:49, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

== Forbidding drinks ==

The problem: you have a bunch of [[dwarven wine]]. Dwarves seem to like drinking from the fullest barrels. So you have an ever-increasing need for more barrels - and an ever-increasing supply of ''dwarven wine [5]..[1]'' that isn't getting used.

How do I
* avoid throwing the wine on the ground
* forbid the barrels with the most wine in them

I have noticed that when I get it wrong I end up with a puddle of ''dwarven wine [25''.[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 07:13, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

:Dwarfs like to drink from newly filled barrels first, which tend to be the fullest. Use the z - stocks - menu; In the detailed view of 'drinks' they are sorted by content and you can forbid single barrels. Spilling of wine should not happen then but now you mention it, I think i saw odd emptying of waterskins in this version, too. Probably comes from forbidding the barrel instead of its contents? --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 10:53, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
::I read what you have said as ''forbid the barrel and the dwarves will leave the contents alone''. I think I've done this before but I know I've tried both "forbid the barrel" and "forbid the content". I'll go with the barrel. [[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 11:01, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Container

2009-10-22T16:05:01Z

Malibu Stacey: /* Degrading bags */

==Changes from the old version of the Wiki==
1.This new page seems to be about two different things, 'containers' as they refer to bins and barrels (in the casual usage), and 'container' as the game uses (chests and so on.) Note that the [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Containers old wiki] devoted this page exclusively to the latter, to help people understand what was meant when a noble requested a container or when they saw containers on their stocks menu. That hasn't changed, has it? Maybe barrels, bins, etc should be excluded from this page. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 16:17, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

2.Is there still the bug where decorated barrels and bags are unusable? Please confirm.

3.Does anybody know if goblins will still stuff dwarven children into bags? That was always hilarious. Especially watching the bag-children grow up into bag-adults. --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 15:30, 9 November 2007 (EST)

4.What is a "stationary container" mentioned under Bags? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 18:05, 18 November 2007 (EST)

in reply to 3.Yer the gobbos will stuff dwarf kids into bags, tho I think the kids get outta the bags when the gobbo goes down ;). "he/she is depressed at being confined." --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 06:33, 6 February 2008 (EST)
:In reply to 2, I have several decorated barrels and bags in use. Gem-encrusted masterwork bags being used to hold wild strawberry seed... go figure. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:05, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

==Compulsive seed storage in bags==
How do you reserve bags for sand-hauling? If any empty bags sit in the glass furnaces for even a brief time a food hauler comes by and puts a seed into it, making it unusable for sand collection. I guess I could have no food haulers, but then food spoils quite quickly in the kitchens. [[User:Julius|Julius]]

:Keep a set of bags away from dwarves who are hauling seeds. Dwarves will use bags to carry (and hold) seeds, but only if the bags are along the route they're taking to store the seeds. Although it might seem like it at first, they aren't actually combing your fortress looking for bags to put one seed in. I put a bag-only stockpile along the little circuit between my sand and my glass furnaces (which is far away from any source of seeds), and have no problems.--[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 11:31, 19 January 2008 (EST)

::Tell that to the dwarves who, immediately after I followed your suggestion, ran up four flights of stairs PAST my seed stockpile to steal the empty bag next to the glass furnace. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 20:10, 20 January 2008 (EST)

::A failed Goblin ambush preceded an incredible procession of EVERYONE in my fort carrying plump helmet spawn up to the surface to store it on a Goblin corpse who was unfortunate enough to die with a leather bag in its inventory. Even people for whom everything was turned off but their related job (e.g., miners). They only forgot about the bag when I both forbade it and set it for dumping. Now I can't do anything with it. [[User:FJH|FJH]] 19:19, 17 February 2009 (EST)

:::I think this is fixed/greatly improved. Or maybe im doing smth right i did wrong before, but in 40d all my bag/seed storage problems have gone. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 12:26, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

== seeds in chests? ==
Will dwarves store seeds in bags built as chests in other dwarves' rooms? Rather, if you build a bag as a chest in a dwarf's room, will other dwarves store seeds in it? If its owner stores seeds in it, will other dwarves eat them? --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 14:44, 9 August 2008 (EDT)
:No. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 12:26, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

==leather bags==
i think there's a problem with using these for some tasks, like gathering sand, cos i had a bunch sitting in the workshop (no they werent tasked to be hauled)... anyone else confirm/deny this? [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 20:43, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

*you have a ''valid'' i-zone marked for sand collecting? (one that is placed over a tile that reads "X Sand" (not a wall) and has something other than a zero at 'sand collection (X)'?
*you have a dwarf with ''glassmaking'' enabled?
*you queued the task at a glass furnace?
*possibly bags sitting in the/a workshop might be ignored; they have to be on a furniture pile --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 09:54, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

== chest vs coffer ==

how much difference in value is there between getting a mason to make a coffer out of a gold nugget and a metalsmith to make a chest from gold metal?

Any time I'm letting a mason near native aluminium or native platinum he's usually quite skilled - so far my metalsmiths are outstripping supply of metal bars very quickly so they are still only as skilled as they were when they migrated.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:22, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

:Check the page for [[value]]. It looks like ore has the same value as the metal. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 02:08, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

== Store your bloody items! ==

My nobles and legendary whatever keep claiming random items and leave them where they lay. Supposedly it might be a problem my dwarves have the same cabinets and coffers since they might have the same room. Anything else I need to know to make my dwarves take care of their bloody belongings? Makes it difficult to place and build things. --[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 13:15, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
:Indeed, my Tax Collector has about a dozen stone earrings on the floor of her room, but won't put any of them in the two gabbro coffers in her room. Am I missing something? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:32, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
: I have the same problem. My Duke has a fondness for idols & has them strewn all over his bedroom, office, dining room and burial chamber even though he has 5 coffers spread between the first 3 rooms. Not one of the coffers has a single item in it but he does manage to put his clothes in his cabinets. All other nobles including the mayor do the same but it's most apparent with the Duke and all the shell idols he keeps claiming. Looks like a bug in 40d to me. --[[User:Malibu Stacey|Malibu Stacey]] 16:00, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
:On that note, do cabinets and coffers have a capacity, or are they wardrobes of holding? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 10:13, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
:::I believe they hold 12 items each(one screen worth)--[[User:Shoez|Shoez]] 03:20, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

== Emptying bags ==

Is there any way to essentially say "move the contents onto the floor or into another container"? As mentioned in an answer above, I have some containers which got decorated and would be worth a great deal in trade, but are currently holding food supplies. I suppose I could just sell the containers with their contents, but that seems somewhat inelegant. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:07, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:Have you tried marking the contents for dumping? I think I've used that to empty things out before. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 14:18, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

== Degrading bags ==

I am not sure if this should be mentioned here or under [[wear]] but I have noticed that bags of leaves, seeds, dye, etc. stored in barrels, inside, in designated stockpiles are subject to wear, though the contents of the bags and the barrels holding the bags are immune to wear. I am not sure if this is caused by foot traffic(though I suspect it is) or simply time as I made most of my bags in the first 5 years of my fort and I am just noticing this after year 20. I suggest a comment be added here and in the wear article as a warning, pending further investigation. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 19:43, 25 January 2009 (EST)
: Would make sense especially for seed bags. If you dwarves are continually taking stuff out & putting stuff in them they should eventually wear out due to repeated usage. --[[User:Malibu Stacey|Malibu Stacey]] 16:05, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

== Container Contents ==

I re-added the information about using the k-key to view container contents since the t-key method only works if the container isn't in a stockpile. --[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 18:37, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

== Something missing? ==

We've got what stockpiles they fill when full.
What stockpile is normal for them empty?
--[[User:Nightwind|Nightwind]] 19:03, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:They're furniture. Fixed.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:49, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

== Forbidding drinks ==

The problem: you have a bunch of [[dwarven wine]]. Dwarves seem to like drinking from the fullest barrels. So you have an ever-increasing need for more barrels - and an ever-increasing supply of ''dwarven wine [5]..[1]'' that isn't getting used.

How do I
* avoid throwing the wine on the ground
* forbid the barrels with the most wine in them

I have noticed that when I get it wrong I end up with a puddle of ''dwarven wine [25''.[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 07:13, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

:Dwarfs like to drink from newly filled barrels first, which tend to be the fullest. Use the z - stocks - menu; In the detailed view of 'drinks' they are sorted by content and you can forbid single barrels. Spilling of wine should not happen then but now you mention it, I think i saw odd emptying of waterskins in this version, too. Probably comes from forbidding the barrel instead of its contents? --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 10:53, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
::I read what you have said as ''forbid the barrel and the dwarves will leave the contents alone''. I think I've done this before but I know I've tried both "forbid the barrel" and "forbid the content". I'll go with the barrel. [[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 11:01, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Container

2009-10-22T16:00:42Z

Malibu Stacey: /* Store your bloody items! */

==Changes from the old version of the Wiki==
1.This new page seems to be about two different things, 'containers' as they refer to bins and barrels (in the casual usage), and 'container' as the game uses (chests and so on.) Note that the [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Containers old wiki] devoted this page exclusively to the latter, to help people understand what was meant when a noble requested a container or when they saw containers on their stocks menu. That hasn't changed, has it? Maybe barrels, bins, etc should be excluded from this page. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 16:17, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

2.Is there still the bug where decorated barrels and bags are unusable? Please confirm.

3.Does anybody know if goblins will still stuff dwarven children into bags? That was always hilarious. Especially watching the bag-children grow up into bag-adults. --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 15:30, 9 November 2007 (EST)

4.What is a "stationary container" mentioned under Bags? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 18:05, 18 November 2007 (EST)

in reply to 3.Yer the gobbos will stuff dwarf kids into bags, tho I think the kids get outta the bags when the gobbo goes down ;). "he/she is depressed at being confined." --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 06:33, 6 February 2008 (EST)
:In reply to 2, I have several decorated barrels and bags in use. Gem-encrusted masterwork bags being used to hold wild strawberry seed... go figure. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:05, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

==Compulsive seed storage in bags==
How do you reserve bags for sand-hauling? If any empty bags sit in the glass furnaces for even a brief time a food hauler comes by and puts a seed into it, making it unusable for sand collection. I guess I could have no food haulers, but then food spoils quite quickly in the kitchens. [[User:Julius|Julius]]

:Keep a set of bags away from dwarves who are hauling seeds. Dwarves will use bags to carry (and hold) seeds, but only if the bags are along the route they're taking to store the seeds. Although it might seem like it at first, they aren't actually combing your fortress looking for bags to put one seed in. I put a bag-only stockpile along the little circuit between my sand and my glass furnaces (which is far away from any source of seeds), and have no problems.--[[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 11:31, 19 January 2008 (EST)

::Tell that to the dwarves who, immediately after I followed your suggestion, ran up four flights of stairs PAST my seed stockpile to steal the empty bag next to the glass furnace. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 20:10, 20 January 2008 (EST)

::A failed Goblin ambush preceded an incredible procession of EVERYONE in my fort carrying plump helmet spawn up to the surface to store it on a Goblin corpse who was unfortunate enough to die with a leather bag in its inventory. Even people for whom everything was turned off but their related job (e.g., miners). They only forgot about the bag when I both forbade it and set it for dumping. Now I can't do anything with it. [[User:FJH|FJH]] 19:19, 17 February 2009 (EST)

:::I think this is fixed/greatly improved. Or maybe im doing smth right i did wrong before, but in 40d all my bag/seed storage problems have gone. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 12:26, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

== seeds in chests? ==
Will dwarves store seeds in bags built as chests in other dwarves' rooms? Rather, if you build a bag as a chest in a dwarf's room, will other dwarves store seeds in it? If its owner stores seeds in it, will other dwarves eat them? --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 14:44, 9 August 2008 (EDT)
:No. --[[User:Birthright|Birthright]] 12:26, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

==leather bags==
i think there's a problem with using these for some tasks, like gathering sand, cos i had a bunch sitting in the workshop (no they werent tasked to be hauled)... anyone else confirm/deny this? [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 20:43, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

*you have a ''valid'' i-zone marked for sand collecting? (one that is placed over a tile that reads "X Sand" (not a wall) and has something other than a zero at 'sand collection (X)'?
*you have a dwarf with ''glassmaking'' enabled?
*you queued the task at a glass furnace?
*possibly bags sitting in the/a workshop might be ignored; they have to be on a furniture pile --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 09:54, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

== chest vs coffer ==

how much difference in value is there between getting a mason to make a coffer out of a gold nugget and a metalsmith to make a chest from gold metal?

Any time I'm letting a mason near native aluminium or native platinum he's usually quite skilled - so far my metalsmiths are outstripping supply of metal bars very quickly so they are still only as skilled as they were when they migrated.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:22, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

:Check the page for [[value]]. It looks like ore has the same value as the metal. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 02:08, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

== Store your bloody items! ==

My nobles and legendary whatever keep claiming random items and leave them where they lay. Supposedly it might be a problem my dwarves have the same cabinets and coffers since they might have the same room. Anything else I need to know to make my dwarves take care of their bloody belongings? Makes it difficult to place and build things. --[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 13:15, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
:Indeed, my Tax Collector has about a dozen stone earrings on the floor of her room, but won't put any of them in the two gabbro coffers in her room. Am I missing something? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:32, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
: I have the same problem. My Duke has a fondness for idols & has them strewn all over his bedroom, office, dining room and burial chamber even though he has 5 coffers spread between the first 3 rooms. Not one of the coffers has a single item in it but he does manage to put his clothes in his cabinets. All other nobles including the mayor do the same but it's most apparent with the Duke and all the shell idols he keeps claiming. Looks like a bug in 40d to me. --[[User:Malibu Stacey|Malibu Stacey]] 16:00, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
:On that note, do cabinets and coffers have a capacity, or are they wardrobes of holding? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 10:13, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
:::I believe they hold 12 items each(one screen worth)--[[User:Shoez|Shoez]] 03:20, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

== Emptying bags ==

Is there any way to essentially say "move the contents onto the floor or into another container"? As mentioned in an answer above, I have some containers which got decorated and would be worth a great deal in trade, but are currently holding food supplies. I suppose I could just sell the containers with their contents, but that seems somewhat inelegant. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:07, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:Have you tried marking the contents for dumping? I think I've used that to empty things out before. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 14:18, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

== Degrading bags ==

I am not sure if this should be mentioned here or under [[wear]] but I have noticed that bags of leaves, seeds, dye, etc. stored in barrels, inside, in designated stockpiles are subject to wear, though the contents of the bags and the barrels holding the bags are immune to wear. I am not sure if this is caused by foot traffic(though I suspect it is) or simply time as I made most of my bags in the first 5 years of my fort and I am just noticing this after year 20. I suggest a comment be added here and in the wear article as a warning, pending further investigation. --[[User:PencilinHand|PencilinHand]] 19:43, 25 January 2009 (EST)

== Container Contents ==

I re-added the information about using the k-key to view container contents since the t-key method only works if the container isn't in a stockpile. --[[User:Mithra|Mithra]] 18:37, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

== Something missing? ==

We've got what stockpiles they fill when full.
What stockpile is normal for them empty?
--[[User:Nightwind|Nightwind]] 19:03, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
:They're furniture. Fixed.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:49, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

== Forbidding drinks ==

The problem: you have a bunch of [[dwarven wine]]. Dwarves seem to like drinking from the fullest barrels. So you have an ever-increasing need for more barrels - and an ever-increasing supply of ''dwarven wine [5]..[1]'' that isn't getting used.

How do I
* avoid throwing the wine on the ground
* forbid the barrels with the most wine in them

I have noticed that when I get it wrong I end up with a puddle of ''dwarven wine [25''.[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 07:13, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

:Dwarfs like to drink from newly filled barrels first, which tend to be the fullest. Use the z - stocks - menu; In the detailed view of 'drinks' they are sorted by content and you can forbid single barrels. Spilling of wine should not happen then but now you mention it, I think i saw odd emptying of waterskins in this version, too. Probably comes from forbidding the barrel instead of its contents? --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 10:53, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
::I read what you have said as ''forbid the barrel and the dwarves will leave the contents alone''. I think I've done this before but I know I've tried both "forbid the barrel" and "forbid the content". I'll go with the barrel. [[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 11:01, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Standing orders

2009-10-20T18:47:02Z

Malibu Stacey: /* Soldiers and Children wandering outside */

<blockquote>
* {{K|m}} toggles whether different types of food should be mixed when [[cook|cooking]]
</blockquote>
I do not think the toggle affects ingredients while cooking, but whether different foods are mixed in barrels on the stockpile. Toggled on would mean a Plant Barrel could contain Plump Helmets, and Dimple Cups, and other plants together. Toggled off would mean the Barrels are restricted to a certain food. Instead of a Plant Barrel, it would be a Plump Helmet Barrel and a Dimple Cup Barrel.--[[User:Yggiz|Yggiz]] 04:08, 28 January 2008 (EST)
:"By default, dwarves will put all meats in a "meat barrel" and all plants in a "plant barrel", for example. If you'd like them to separate foods out more specifically, you can do that here." - that's from manual.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:28, 28 January 2008 (EST)

==Dwarves All Harvest/Only Farmers Harvest==
1) Why isn't this option mentioned in the article?

2) Does turning "Only farmers harvest" on mean children will stop harvesting too? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 04:29, 5 May 2008 (EDT)
:I don't know why it's not mentioned, but I'm sure children (and nobles) will stop harvesting if you turn it on. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 07:47, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

== Soldiers and Children wandering outside ==

I set the "Dwarves stay inside" order on, and my soldiers and children won't stay in, i was trying to lock it after they went in, but on would always stay outside... anyone know if this is a bug or something? I looked in the known bugs and issues, but i could only find "added short distance search for stay inside order"..
any ideas with this? [[User:Wizjany|Wizjany]] 21:44, 10 October 2008 (EDT)
:I just noticed something like this. I'd opened my "traders' back door" and locked the traders' air lock (to keep siege goblins out) to let them in and Ordered all my dwarves to stay inside to avoid the sieging goblins coming at the other side of the fortress (where the front door is). Some kids and other dwarves still went outside. They all had "Bring Item to Depot" or another item-moving task active and were going out the front door (right into the goblins) and trying to walk around the fortress to the back door. My guess is that if the destination is Subterranean (which my Depot is) the path won't register as going through a "forbidden" area, and dwarves will use that path despite a Stay Inside order. [[User:Bitbender|Bitbender]] 05:12, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
::I believe that the dwarves do not check for outside while pathing. They only check while they are moving. They can and will do a strange entrance dance when they realize that they shouldn't be outside, turn around, job check, oh look a shiny, oh no i'm outside, turn around, job check, ... --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 14:32, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
:::There was no entrance dance in this case: they just went straight for the great, goblin-infested outdoors. I think you're right that they don't check while pathing, but I think it's more complicated than just "am I outdoors". There's probably some code that lets them path through the outside so long as their destination is inside, otherwise they'd have problems coming in from the outdoors when the Stay Inside order is given. [[User:Bitbender|Bitbender]] 19:01, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

== Soldiers Can Go Outdoors/Dwarves Stay Indoors ==

I was caught out by "inside" actually meaning "underground" in this version. After me spending years building a roof over my trade depot/ballistae, nobody shows up to fire them at the goblin hordes. The dogs and cats did a fine job, but next fortress I'm just building more lockable doors. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 21:48, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:Yes this is a royal pain in the ass. In any revision of 40d if you set the standing orders to Soldiers Can go Outdoors or Dwarves Stay Indoors, you will get spammed with "Urist McFarmer cancels Harvest Plants: Forbidden Area" if you have any overground farming plots with crops needing harvested. --[[User:Malibu Stacey|Malibu Stacey]] 18:47, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

== Traders and Orders ==
I had my first goblin ambush today! Things went almost exactly as planned, with my Hall Of Death eating half of them before the rest fled, but I noticed something weird: When I ordered everyone inside, the elven traders left the depot and went too! Were they actually following dwarven orders, or were they just taking cover of their own account? [[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 13:35, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

:During my most recent siege, the elves all clustered at the back of my depot cavern, so it looks like they try to run away of their own accord. The goblins were quite nearby at the time, though, so it may have been the proximity of the goblins, not the fact of the siege that got them on the run.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:46, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

== "Zone-only" not working? ==

I just had a bunch of dwarves get slaughtered by carp because we ran out of booze and they ignored my zone-only drinking order. The only safe water I could mark was a nearby murky pool. If they spotted the hostiles and got interrupted a few times, they would eventually drink from the pool (and be pissed off about it), but it wouldn't stop them from at least trying to drink from the river first. What gives? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 23:28, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Irrigation

2009-10-20T13:37:59Z

Malibu Stacey:

Irrigation is not always needed for farming. i have my plot inside on sandy clay loam and it works fine. But: would the harvest maybe be better/faster with water? will check out. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:20, 10 February 2008 (EST)
: Made a few changes to clarify.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:36, 10 February 2008 (EST)
:Irrigation is only needed to be able to farm on rock. Soil layers don't need irrigation before you can farm on them. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:04, 10 February 2008 (EST)
: Irrigating a soil layer will however allow you to fertilize the farm plot using potash which increases the yeild. --[[User:Malibu Stacey|Malibu Stacey]] 13:37, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

The article indicates that "some natural ponds replenish themselves at the beginning of spring." My research indicates that this is the result of water thawing. Any amount of water (x/7) becomes ice during winter (assuming your climate is cold enough). When melting, it becomes 7/7 deep water. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 02:57, 6 April 2008 (EDT)

Consequently... after irrigating land, is the muddied land subject to evaporation post-planting?
[[User:Okita|Okita]] 03:28, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

I've tidied up the article a lot, and made it much more newbie friendly (thanks also to Brandonazz), but I'm still a bit of a newbie myself so if I've made any factual errors I apologise. Hopefully it should be a lot easier to follow for those new to the game. --[[User:Daxx|Daxx]] 17:55, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

Is it possible to irrigate on constructed floors? I'm considering building a farm on top of a tower. [[User:Amenos42|Amenos42]] 00:12, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

Does the irrigated land dry up eventually? [[User:Arvid|Arvid]] 17:24, 6 November 2008 (EST)

:If it does, it dries very, very slowly, over the course of years. Using 'dirt roads' can clean up the mud, however. Sadly, there does not seem to be any way to clean up your muddy engraved floors. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:37, 6 November 2008 (EST)
:: Depends on the local temperature, how wet the area is, etc. I've had muddy fields dry out in a season. If there's at least 1/7 water (and it's not just muddy), and you want to get the water out, your best bet is a screw pump. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 19:16, 6 November 2008 (EST)

==Confusion about growing outdoor seeds in mountain biomes==
I put in info about why plants won't grow in irrigated outdoor plots based on [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=6831.0 this message from Toady]. I suspect that the user who found that this was also true for 'greenhoused' tiles was probably trying it in a mountain biome, but I didn't verify that I could make it work in other biomes. --[[User:Threlicus|Threlicus]] 17:19, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
: I have been successfully running an outdoor, irrigated plot in a desert biome for quite some time now, but I never realized this "bug" before because I had never tried it before in a mountain biome. [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 17:44, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=6831.0 Toady One said] that " if you settled in the mountains and there's a patch that's just grassless soil, it's probably a mountain biome square that doesn't accept any plant types." So as far as I can tell that means that the outdoor seeds '''will''' grow in mountain biomes, but just not on rocky tiles. [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 18:11, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
: Are there non-rocky base tiles in mountain biomes? I don't know how to tell if a given tile is in one biome or another after the embark, and with the vast expanse of rock I've got in my mountain fastness here, I don't see any non-rock tiles that aren't at least plausibly the edge of the other biomes in my embark square... [[User:Threlicus|Threlicus]] 19:20, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
::Can be. It's not (normally) possible to embark on a map that is 100% mountain - so there is a chance that the non-mountain will bleed over into a mountain block. (No way to tell after embark afaik.) This is still not clear in the article - the diff between a tile that is rock and a biome that is mountain seems to blur.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:47, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

==growth of [[Tower cap]]s ==
[[Tower cap]]s will grow on un-irrigated, underground soil just as much, as fast and as often as on irrigated soil - the catch is that you need a soil layer below the soil floor, just like for outdoor trees. Irrigating is only needed for stone. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 20:00, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
: Oh, not again! Wrong! TC's grow '''much more densely''' on irrigated soil, and do '''not''' need a soil layer beneath them! So, while an individual TC may(?) take just as long, the forest, overall, produces mass wood "faster" with irrigation. This is a DF myth that has been busted long ago, but still malingers like a bad smell.

:Try it! Take one homogeneous area, irrigate half, go have dinner, come back and see the diff. And/or with half over stone or a mined-out area - makes NO difference to Tower Caps. (When you do, be careful of "damp soil" - over an aquifer, or near damp walls - they seem to like those better if unirrigated.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:29, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

::I "try" it in every fortress since i never start without UGR or sand. Tower caps and bushes grow on ''soil'' if -and only if- soil is below. Easy to check with reveal. The pattern is obvious. ''Unless irrigated'', ''then'' soil below is not needed. Stone floor does not need soil(obviously) or stone below and of course needs to be muddy/irrigated. A quick count also shows that a muddy stone area is populated just as dense as a soil one without mud. (just as a sidenote, if those dwarven "mythbusters" are anything like the tv ones, i count that as further proof for my side ;-) Or were you referring to the <s>rumor mill</s> <s>honorable source with a reputation for fact checking</s> forum?) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:46, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

::: Hmmm - well, I currently have a TC farm on the one, ''single'' layer of UG soil (white sand) on that map, with chalk underneath - some excavated - growing just fine above both. And on that, I had not irrigated the whole area, but only about 80% of the excavated sand tiles - density in the irrigated is (currently) an estimated 15% saplings/TC's, on the ''un''irrigated about 5%. Sounds like we need independent input, and/or something more is going on. Does this map have an aquifer? Because the saplings that are growing in the unirrigated strongly tend to show up right at the edge of the irrigated soil, and/or even on the other side of a (damp) wall from a murky pool.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:04, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

== Reservoir Irrigation ==

The current version says you can "effectively" water an area 7x the size of the reservoir, but that doesn't seem to take into account the water that remains in the reservoir once the floodgate's opened which can lead to spots getting missed and people who're anal about this sort of stuff getting annoyed - maybe a 6x/5x figure should be used instead so we can get a depth average of 1.4-ish? --[[User:Sorenson|Sorenson]] 11 March 2008 (EST)

The current example for reservior irrigation is a rather bad example, as water flows far too slowly for it to fill the destination area before drying out - actually attempting it would likely only irrigate 60-70% of the growing room. A much more reliable setup would leave 1.5 (between 1 and 2) units of water on each tile (would take longer to evaporate, but you only need to irrigate '''once''' and it's well worth the wait), and the gate between the reservoir and the tree farm would ideally be significantly wider (ideally the '''entire wall''' separating the two in the current diagram) so the reservoir takes less than a month to empty. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:40, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
*Just for the sake of argument, I followed the exact diagram (which only used a '''23x23''' farming area rather than 24x24, which should have arguably worked better), and it only irrigated 78% of the tiles. With a 24x24 reservoir, that would've only translated to 71.5% coverage. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:57, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

== Underground River Irrigation ==

I find the description of underground river irrigation misleading. As a screw pump pulls water from the level below it to the current level it is far easier/simpler to build your farm(s) on the same level as the "open space" of an underground river rather than the same level as the water of the underground river. --[[User:Malibu Stacey|Malibu Stacey]] 13:31, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Irrigation

2009-10-20T13:31:59Z

Malibu Stacey:

Irrigation is not always needed for farming. i have my plot inside on sandy clay loam and it works fine. But: would the harvest maybe be better/faster with water? will check out. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:20, 10 February 2008 (EST)
: Made a few changes to clarify.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:36, 10 February 2008 (EST)
:Irrigation is only needed to be able to farm on rock. Soil layers don't need irrigation before you can farm on them. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 15:04, 10 February 2008 (EST)
The current version says you can "effectively" water an area 7x the size of the reservoir, but that doesn't seem to take into account the water that remains in the reservoir once the floodgate's opened which can lead to spots getting missed and people who're anal about this sort of stuff getting annoyed - maybe a 6x/5x figure should be used instead so we can get a depth average of 1.4-ish? --[[User:Sorenson|Sorenson]] 11 March 2008 (EST)

The article indicates that "some natural ponds replenish themselves at the beginning of spring." My research indicates that this is the result of water thawing. Any amount of water (x/7) becomes ice during winter (assuming your climate is cold enough). When melting, it becomes 7/7 deep water. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 02:57, 6 April 2008 (EDT)

Consequently... after irrigating land, is the muddied land subject to evaporation post-planting?
[[User:Okita|Okita]] 03:28, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

I've tidied up the article a lot, and made it much more newbie friendly (thanks also to Brandonazz), but I'm still a bit of a newbie myself so if I've made any factual errors I apologise. Hopefully it should be a lot easier to follow for those new to the game. --[[User:Daxx|Daxx]] 17:55, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

Is it possible to irrigate on constructed floors? I'm considering building a farm on top of a tower. [[User:Amenos42|Amenos42]] 00:12, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

Does the irrigated land dry up eventually? [[User:Arvid|Arvid]] 17:24, 6 November 2008 (EST)

:If it does, it dries very, very slowly, over the course of years. Using 'dirt roads' can clean up the mud, however. Sadly, there does not seem to be any way to clean up your muddy engraved floors. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:37, 6 November 2008 (EST)
:: Depends on the local temperature, how wet the area is, etc. I've had muddy fields dry out in a season. If there's at least 1/7 water (and it's not just muddy), and you want to get the water out, your best bet is a screw pump. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 19:16, 6 November 2008 (EST)

==Confusion about growing outdoor seeds in mountain biomes==
I put in info about why plants won't grow in irrigated outdoor plots based on [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=6831.0 this message from Toady]. I suspect that the user who found that this was also true for 'greenhoused' tiles was probably trying it in a mountain biome, but I didn't verify that I could make it work in other biomes. --[[User:Threlicus|Threlicus]] 17:19, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
: I have been successfully running an outdoor, irrigated plot in a desert biome for quite some time now, but I never realized this "bug" before because I had never tried it before in a mountain biome. [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 17:44, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=6831.0 Toady One said] that " if you settled in the mountains and there's a patch that's just grassless soil, it's probably a mountain biome square that doesn't accept any plant types." So as far as I can tell that means that the outdoor seeds '''will''' grow in mountain biomes, but just not on rocky tiles. [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 18:11, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
: Are there non-rocky base tiles in mountain biomes? I don't know how to tell if a given tile is in one biome or another after the embark, and with the vast expanse of rock I've got in my mountain fastness here, I don't see any non-rock tiles that aren't at least plausibly the edge of the other biomes in my embark square... [[User:Threlicus|Threlicus]] 19:20, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
::Can be. It's not (normally) possible to embark on a map that is 100% mountain - so there is a chance that the non-mountain will bleed over into a mountain block. (No way to tell after embark afaik.) This is still not clear in the article - the diff between a tile that is rock and a biome that is mountain seems to blur.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:47, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

==growth of [[Tower cap]]s ==
[[Tower cap]]s will grow on un-irrigated, underground soil just as much, as fast and as often as on irrigated soil - the catch is that you need a soil layer below the soil floor, just like for outdoor trees. Irrigating is only needed for stone. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 20:00, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
: Oh, not again! Wrong! TC's grow '''much more densely''' on irrigated soil, and do '''not''' need a soil layer beneath them! So, while an individual TC may(?) take just as long, the forest, overall, produces mass wood "faster" with irrigation. This is a DF myth that has been busted long ago, but still malingers like a bad smell.

:Try it! Take one homogeneous area, irrigate half, go have dinner, come back and see the diff. And/or with half over stone or a mined-out area - makes NO difference to Tower Caps. (When you do, be careful of "damp soil" - over an aquifer, or near damp walls - they seem to like those better if unirrigated.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:29, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

::I "try" it in every fortress since i never start without UGR or sand. Tower caps and bushes grow on ''soil'' if -and only if- soil is below. Easy to check with reveal. The pattern is obvious. ''Unless irrigated'', ''then'' soil below is not needed. Stone floor does not need soil(obviously) or stone below and of course needs to be muddy/irrigated. A quick count also shows that a muddy stone area is populated just as dense as a soil one without mud. (just as a sidenote, if those dwarven "mythbusters" are anything like the tv ones, i count that as further proof for my side ;-) Or were you referring to the <s>rumor mill</s> <s>honorable source with a reputation for fact checking</s> forum?) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:46, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

::: Hmmm - well, I currently have a TC farm on the one, ''single'' layer of UG soil (white sand) on that map, with chalk underneath - some excavated - growing just fine above both. And on that, I had not irrigated the whole area, but only about 80% of the excavated sand tiles - density in the irrigated is (currently) an estimated 15% saplings/TC's, on the ''un''irrigated about 5%. Sounds like we need independent input, and/or something more is going on. Does this map have an aquifer? Because the saplings that are growing in the unirrigated strongly tend to show up right at the edge of the irrigated soil, and/or even on the other side of a (damp) wall from a murky pool.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:04, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

== Reservoir Irrigation ==

The current example for reservior irrigation is a rather bad example, as water flows far too slowly for it to fill the destination area before drying out - actually attempting it would likely only irrigate 60-70% of the growing room. A much more reliable setup would leave 1.5 (between 1 and 2) units of water on each tile (would take longer to evaporate, but you only need to irrigate '''once''' and it's well worth the wait), and the gate between the reservoir and the tree farm would ideally be significantly wider (ideally the '''entire wall''' separating the two in the current diagram) so the reservoir takes less than a month to empty. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:40, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
*Just for the sake of argument, I followed the exact diagram (which only used a '''23x23''' farming area rather than 24x24, which should have arguably worked better), and it only irrigated 78% of the tiles. With a 24x24 reservoir, that would've only translated to 71.5% coverage. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 19:57, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

== Underground River Irrigation ==

I find the description of underground river irrigation misleading. As a screw pump pulls water from the level below it to the current level it is far easier/simpler to build your farm(s) on the same level as the "open space" of an underground river rather than the same level as the water of the underground river. --[[User:Malibu Stacey|Malibu Stacey]] 13:31, 20 October 2009 (UTC)