Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

User:Mission0

2009-12-29T20:49:09Z

Mission0: Replaced content with 'Favorite moments in Dwarf Fortress: Toady One 12/15/2008 "Okay, there are dwarves walking around, though it's next to the wagon with the equipment that immediately explodes…'

User:Mission0

2009-01-02T07:18:14Z

Mission0:

Favorite moments in Dwarf Fortress:

Toady One 12/15/2008
"Okay, there are dwarves walking around, though it's next to the wagon with the equipment that immediately explodes into clouds of boiling bronze while the dwarves flash between the dwarf and bar symbol wearing no-material clothes, but there are dwarves walking around. Finished up the facial feature/hair stuff, though I haven't tested if the in-game dwarves actually have growing hair and so on. I'll continue working out the bugs for as long as it takes to be non-cataclysmic, then I'll start setting them on each other or some other creature I elevate up to new raw status by that time."

About Mission0:

I'm a casual player of Dwarf Fortress who likes the challenge of the game combined with the comedic effects that can be achieved in the game and by the fan base.

Fortress "Theater of Death":

Late Summer of the year 303:

A goblin ambush struck shortly after we had finished trading with the human caravan. The Caravan made it away safely before they struck. Minimal losses, 4 stray dogs died in the battle the rest of the enemy was torn to shreds by serrated disks and picked off by the small occupying force of archers. I'm afraid to reopen all three gates so the inner drawbridge remains closed until it is deemed safe to open them again.

Late Summer of 304:

Heh these guys are punctual aren't they? The human caravan was coming like usual but far before they could get to my fortress they were ambushed by 2 squads of goblins. The humans fought bravely but were just completely overwelmed. Shortly afterwards I noticed that the 3rd squad had been destroyed by my serrated blade traps without revealing them. The last two squads proceeded towards the fortress where they were promptly swept aside. Lost one war dog and a farmer was injured in the hand, other than the humans no casualties.

Fortress abandoned after fatal flaw was found in fortress design, Game lost ^_^.

Fortress "The Ancients":

I plan to be thorough with this fortresses history.

'''Starting Dwarves:'''

:Foreman (3)
::Proficient Miner
::Mason
::Novice Engraver
::Novice Building Designer
::Novice Mechanic

:Carpenter (1)
::Proficient Wood Cutter
::Proficient Carpenter

:Armorer (1)
::Skilled WeaponSmith
::Proficient ArmorSmith
::Novice MetalSmith

:Farmer (1)
::Proficient Grower
::Competent Judge of Intent
::Appraiser

:Farmer (1)
::Proficient Grower
::Skilled Organizer
::Novice Record Keeper

'''Starting Items:'''

:Copper Picks 3
:Steel Battle Axe 1
:Turtles 100
:Dwarven Rum 35
:Dwarven Wine 35
:Dwarven Ale 35
:Dwarven Beer 35
:Plump Helmet Spawn 30
:Pig Tail Seeds 10
:Cave Wheat Seeds 10
:Sweet Pod Seeds 10
:Rock Nuts 25
:Tower-Cap Logs 30
:Pig tail ropes 10
:Bauxite 10
:Lead Cage 1
:Copper Crossbows 4

'''Animals'''
:War Dog (2)
:Cat (1)

You have arrived. After a journey from the Mountainhomes into the forbidding wilderness beyond, your harsh trek has finally ended. Your party of seven is to make an outpost for the glory of all of Tadkivish. There are almost no supplies, left, but with stout labor comes expecting a supply caravan just before winter entombs you, but it is Spring now. Enough time to delve secure lodgings, ere the sasquatches get hungry. A new chapter of dwarven history begins here at this place, Zastash, "The Ancient". !Strike the earth!



Well we're here, not much to look at, wait... I see a giant Eagle circling in the sky, great.

From the maps there is a possible source of magma to the NorthWest and there are rumors of adamantite to be in this area. Just the thought of such a thing makes my heart skip a beat. There is a river directly to our West and clay loam right under us. The walls to our east are made of andensite.

The other two foreman or forewoman I should say are picking their equipment out of the wagon. The leaders of this expedition and farmers are designating spots to be dug out, while they do that I think I'll go find that magma pipe.

Ok the magma pipe has been found, and promptly sealed up to keep magma creatures from coming at us.

Spring:

Mining designations have been finished, it's a large area to mine out in the first year but it's brilliant. There is an ingenious mechanism that would allow troops to flow out and counter attack any attackers. The workshop quarters and living quarters plans will take some time so we will only mine out part of those, the military areas are yet to be finished being designed.

As mining goes on we run into gold, hematite and alunite. Not great things to run across since we have no use for them at the moment but still ok for now.

We have mined out most of the farming areas and have made good progress on the dining areas as well. However focus was diverted to the food storage and living quarters since those are of more pressing need at the moment.

Summer:

Adventure Mode:

So yeah... I tried adventure mode today (January 1, 2008) and the first quest I recieve to kill a dragon. Yeah >_> I think I may lay that one off for a while and go look at those ruins over there.

User:Mission0

2008-12-27T00:38:28Z

Mission0:

40d Talk:Road

2008-12-24T20:50:13Z

Mission0: /* using roads */

It isn't nessessary in 0.27 for a road to be built to get human wagons and in fact, it appears that even if you do, they don't use it sometimes.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 10:50, 4 November 2007 (EST)

It looked like the human caravan moved faster on a road, but I'm not sure. Ill find out next summer season. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:02, 8 November 2007 (EST)

== removing roads ==

how do I remove a road... I didn't really get the difference btn a road and a floor for corridors and now I cannot put a door at the front of my fortress to lock the invaders out!
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:45, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:I worked it out... it is through the {{key|q}} menu [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:17, 3 January 2008 (EST)

== using roads ==

I've just built a road to help the traders yet they happily plow through the wilderness. Is there anyway to help speed them along and make them use the road. Perferably without having to build wall or channels to funnel them.
[[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 00:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)

::Basically you have to set the traffic restrictions on the surrounding land. [[http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Traffic]] that link should help. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 15:50, 24 December 2008 (EST)

== speed ==

will roads speed up my dwarves? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 09:52, 29 February 2008 (EST)

== Roads and floor underneath ==

It seems that buildin on varied floortile makes the game forget any special occurences. For example if main biome's architype is gabbro, and you have found nasty microcline vein that ruins your entire corridor, you can build road over the microcline and then remove it to transform the floor into gabbro. I did sone arbitual testing and I could show those testing results shoud anyone care.
--[[User:Athan|Athan]] 10:59, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
:It also forgets about smoothing ot that place (not the engravings, though). There was a similar problem with constructions, but Toady fixed it (at least dev log says so).--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:13, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Actual Benefit ==

I had a wilderness or swamp or similar area... and i kept having my cleared path get overgrown with trees. I paved it and I had no future problems with this. Dunno if it still works, and i've not duplicated it to see if it matters. In the mountainous regions, you smooth the boulders and there won't be future problems. --[[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 16:13, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Amount of material needed ==

What? I know that the formula for the 2D version was (height×width+1)/4, rounding up, for most materials, and (height×width+1)/2, rounding up, for metal. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:28, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

:The ceiling of [(height x width + 1)/4] is the same as the floor of [(height x width)/4 + 1] so both formula result in the same answer, I didn't know about the first so when I tested it myself, I used the second. --[[User:Kyace|Kyace]] 18:09, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

::Oh. I should've actually checked out the math.
::I wonder whether metals still have a different formula and how that works... I suspect they don't. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 00:02, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

It never occurred to me to try paving with metal, that's awesome. I've got a fortress with a legendary goblin bone front door and weapon traps filled exclusively with captured goblin weapons, now I'm going to pave the way leading up to it with iron from melted-down goblin armor. It's a pity that I can't install goblin skull totems along the sides of the road too, if I put them out there they'll probably just get stolen. :) [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 00:19, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

:Take care. I had a sweet brass road melted by a dragon back in the flat fortress days. [[User:Rylen|Rylen]] 09:37, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

::There's always more goblins coming to deliver more iron to my smelters. Besides, iron is magma-proof, so I'd hope it'd be dragon-breath-proof as well. As long as there are no rust monsters lurking about out there... [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 12:01, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

== Smooth road? ==

I'm having a moment here... how does one generate the smooth stone road? The only two options are dirt or paved that I see, and trying to designate smoothing doesn't seem to be working. Or is it automatically smooth if you use the right materials? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 01:02, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

:Use blocks instead of stone. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 04:09, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

User:Mission0

2008-12-24T17:33:35Z

Mission0:

User:Mission0

2008-12-20T01:41:00Z

Mission0:

Favorite moments in Dwarf Fortress:

Toady One 12/15/2008
"Okay, there are dwarves walking around, though it's next to the wagon with the equipment that immediately explodes into clouds of boiling bronze while the dwarves flash between the dwarf and bar symbol wearing no-material clothes, but there are dwarves walking around. Finished up the facial feature/hair stuff, though I haven't tested if the in-game dwarves actually have growing hair and so on. I'll continue working out the bugs for as long as it takes to be non-cataclysmic, then I'll start setting them on each other or some other creature I elevate up to new raw status by that time."

About Mission0:

I'm a casual player of Dwarf Fortress who likes the challenge of the game combined with the comedic effects that can be achieved in the game and by the fan base.

Fortress "Theater of Death":

Late Summer of the year 303:

A goblin ambush struck shortly after we had finished trading with the human caravan. The Caravan made it away safely before they struck. Minimal losses, 4 stray dogs died in the battle the rest of the enemy was torn to shreds by serrated disks and picked off by the small occupying force of archers. I'm afraid to reopen all three gates so the inner drawbridge remains closed until it is deemed safe to open them again.

Late Summer of 304:

Heh these guys are punctual aren't they? The human caravan was coming like usual but far before they could get to my fortress they were ambushed by 2 squads of goblins. The humans fought bravely but were just completely overwelmed. Shortly afterwards I noticed that the 3rd squad had been destroyed by my serrated blade traps without revealing them. The last two squads proceeded towards the fortress where they were promptly swept aside. Lost one war dog and a farmer was injured in the hand, other than the humans no casualties.

Fortress abandoned after fatal flaw was found in fortress design, Game lost ^_^.

Fortress "The Ancients":

I plan to be thorough with this fortresses history.

'''Starting Dwarves:'''

:Foreman (3)
::Proficient Miner
::Mason
::Novice Engraver
::Novice Building Designer
::Novice Mechanic

:Carpenter (1)
::Proficient Wood Cutter
::Proficient Carpenter

:Armorer (1)
::Skilled WeaponSmith
::Proficient ArmorSmith
::Novice MetalSmith

:Farmer (1)
::Proficient Grower
::Competent Judge of Intent
::Appraiser

:Farmer (1)
::Proficient Grower
::Skilled Organizer
::Novice Record Keeper

'''Starting Items:'''

:Copper Picks 3
:Steel Battle Axe 1
:Turtles 100
:Dwarven Rum 35
:Dwarven Wine 35
:Dwarven Ale 35
:Dwarven Beer 35
:Plump Helmet Spawn 30
:Pig Tail Seeds 10
:Cave Wheat Seeds 10
:Sweet Pod Seeds 10
:Rock Nuts 25
:Tower-Cap Logs 30
:Pig tail ropes 10
:Bauxite 10
:Lead Cage 1
:Copper Crossbows 4

'''Animals'''
:War Dog (2)
:Cat (1)

You have arrived. After a journey from the Mountainhomes into the forbidding wilderness beyond, your harsh trek has finally ended. Your party of seven is to make an outpost for the glory of all of Tadkivish. There are almost no supplies, left, but with stout labor comes expecting a supply caravan just before winter entombs you, but it is Spring now. Enough time to delve secure lodgings, ere the sasquatches get hungry. A new chapter of dwarven history begins here at this place, Zastash, "The Ancient". !Strike the earth!



Well we're here, not much to look at, wait... I see a giant Eagle circling in the sky, great.

From the maps there is a possible source of magma to the NorthWest and there are rumors of adamantite to be in this area. Just the thought of such a thing makes my heart skip a beat. There is a river directly to our West and clay loam right under us. The walls to our east are made of andensite.

The other two foreman or forewoman I should say are picking their equipment out of the wagon. The leaders of this expedition and farmers are designating spots to be dug out, while they do that I think I'll go find that magma pipe.

Ok the magma pipe has been found, and promptly sealed up to keep magma creatures for coming at us.

After much thought it was decided that we would dig directly down as to use the clay loam for food storage and farms.

User:Mission0

2008-12-20T01:14:25Z

Mission0:

User:Mission0

2008-12-20T01:10:49Z

Mission0:

User:Mission0

2008-12-20T00:33:35Z

Mission0:

40d Talk:Road

2008-12-20T00:29:41Z

Mission0: /* using roads */

It isn't nessessary in 0.27 for a road to be built to get human wagons and in fact, it appears that even if you do, they don't use it sometimes.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 10:50, 4 November 2007 (EST)

It looked like the human caravan moved faster on a road, but I'm not sure. Ill find out next summer season. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 14:02, 8 November 2007 (EST)

== removing roads ==

how do I remove a road... I didn't really get the difference btn a road and a floor for corridors and now I cannot put a door at the front of my fortress to lock the invaders out!
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:45, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:I worked it out... it is through the {{key|q}} menu [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:17, 3 January 2008 (EST)

== using roads ==

I've just built a road to help the traders yet they happily plow through the wilderness. Is there anyway to help speed them along and make them use the road. Perferably without having to build wall or channels to funnel them.
[[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 00:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)

::Basically you have to set the traffic restrictions on the surrounding land. [[http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Traffic]] that link should help.

== speed ==

will roads speed up my dwarves? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 09:52, 29 February 2008 (EST)

== Roads and floor underneath ==

It seems that buildin on varied floortile makes the game forget any special occurences. For example if main biome's architype is gabbro, and you have found nasty microcline vein that ruins your entire corridor, you can build road over the microcline and then remove it to transform the floor into gabbro. I did sone arbitual testing and I could show those testing results shoud anyone care.
--[[User:Athan|Athan]] 10:59, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
:It also forgets about smoothing ot that place (not the engravings, though). There was a similar problem with constructions, but Toady fixed it (at least dev log says so).--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:13, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Actual Benefit ==

I had a wilderness or swamp or similar area... and i kept having my cleared path get overgrown with trees. I paved it and I had no future problems with this. Dunno if it still works, and i've not duplicated it to see if it matters. In the mountainous regions, you smooth the boulders and there won't be future problems. --[[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 16:13, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Amount of material needed ==

What? I know that the formula for the 2D version was (height×width+1)/4, rounding up, for most materials, and (height×width+1)/2, rounding up, for metal. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:28, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

:The ceiling of [(height x width + 1)/4] is the same as the floor of [(height x width)/4 + 1] so both formula result in the same answer, I didn't know about the first so when I tested it myself, I used the second. --[[User:Kyace|Kyace]] 18:09, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

::Oh. I should've actually checked out the math.
::I wonder whether metals still have a different formula and how that works... I suspect they don't. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 00:02, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

It never occurred to me to try paving with metal, that's awesome. I've got a fortress with a legendary goblin bone front door and weapon traps filled exclusively with captured goblin weapons, now I'm going to pave the way leading up to it with iron from melted-down goblin armor. It's a pity that I can't install goblin skull totems along the sides of the road too, if I put them out there they'll probably just get stolen. :) [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 00:19, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

:Take care. I had a sweet brass road melted by a dragon back in the flat fortress days. [[User:Rylen|Rylen]] 09:37, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

::There's always more goblins coming to deliver more iron to my smelters. Besides, iron is magma-proof, so I'd hope it'd be dragon-breath-proof as well. As long as there are no rust monsters lurking about out there... [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 12:01, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

== Smooth road? ==

I'm having a moment here... how does one generate the smooth stone road? The only two options are dirt or paved that I see, and trying to designate smoothing doesn't seem to be working. Or is it automatically smooth if you use the right materials? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 01:02, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

:Use blocks instead of stone. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 04:09, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

User:Mission0

2008-12-17T04:03:47Z

Mission0:

User:Mission0

2008-12-17T04:03:05Z

Mission0:

User:Mission0

2008-12-16T21:13:20Z

Mission0: New page: Favorite moments in Dwarf Fortress: Toady One 12/15/2008 "Okay, there are dwarves walking around, though it's next to the wagon with the equipment that immediately explodes into clouds o...

40d Talk:Fly

2008-12-15T04:16:56Z

Mission0: How do we get rid of flies?

== Walls? ==
Could you wall in a pool and thus contain the flies? Or can they fly over the walls? --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 06:02, 10 December 2008 (EST)
:Most vermin teleport, so nothing actually contains them. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:44, 10 December 2008 (EST)

== How do we get rid of flies? ==

From what I can see Flies can neither be killed by Cats or trapped. So how do we get rid of them?

40d Talk:How do I stop my dwarves from dropping clothes all over the barracks

2008-11-30T05:01:09Z

Mission0:

So ... anyone got an answer for this one? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 04:10, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:What's the actual problem? Random clothing on the floor, or clothing in stockpiles? --[[User:Major sephiroth|Major sephiroth]] 04:16, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:: Clothing on the floor. It's not really annoying for sparring, but it's unesthetic. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 05:36, 9 November 2008 (EST)

::: If none of your military dwarves or guards are wrestlers, they won't be grabbing and tearing off clothing at all (unless circumstances conspire to deprive them of their weapon while sparring, perhaps.) Beyond that, giving every dwarf their own room, optionally with a container to store clothes in, should enable them to clean up the sparring floor. They might be 'storing their belongings' intentionally and acting like they own the place, I'm not sure.--[[User:Navian|Navian]] 06:24, 9 November 2008 (EST)
::::Wouldn't you have to deactivate them before they put it away? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 14:17, 9 November 2008 (EST)

::::: No, soldiers will put away equipment. Does anyone know if it's worth your time to put chests and cabinets in a barracks? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 22:48, 9 November 2008 (EST)

:::::: Putting Cabinets and chests into the barracks isn't a good idea since dwarves that already have their own cabinet and those who don't will constantly check the cabinet since it's public, so it's better if each of your military dwarves have their own room.[[User:Mission0|Mission0]]

40d Talk:Sparring

2008-09-16T22:07:31Z

Mission0: /* Speed of Training while Sparring */

== Miners using Mining skill ==

I've noticed my miners tend to get legendary in Miner rather than Wrestler while sparring. So not only do they use their picks and Mining skill in combat, they gain XP in that as well. Can anyone confirm? [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:45, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

:I read the Dwarf Fortress forums a while ago, and picks indeed use the mining skill for combat. Seems like picks are counted as spears with 40% damage reduction ( or atleast I think it was damage ) but have an insane critical rate. So a legendary miner will be able to hold of a horde of goblins all by himself, provided you can get a civilian to attack and dodge, since civilians are not inclined to attack enemies and do not use armor... --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 04:34, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::Draft 'im, I guess. I've occasionally had the fortune of having a legendary miner happen to be in the area when a goblin ambush was sprung, and they've generally done quite well for "recruits" - goblins go flying everywhere. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 16:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

==Speed of training in combat and in sparring==

One thing I've noticed is that my crossbow dwarves seem to gain experience quicker in combat than in target practice at the archery range. Whilst this might be down to availability of ammunition, maybe experience from sparring isn't worth as much as from the real thing, which would make sense. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 11:22, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

:It could also be that in combat, the marksdwarves are getting armor/shield user skill on top of their marksdwarf skill, which target practice doesn't do anything for --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:34, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

::They get it faster in combat. Perhaps by an order of magnitude. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:42, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

:::...yeah, that'd do it. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 16:57, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Well Savok would know. It certainly rings true with my experience with drafting miners/woodcutters/hunters becoming skilled wrestlers the first time they toe up with a kobold/goblin vs how long it takes to get good by sparring.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:20, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

:::::I've witnessed something similar to this with recruits that are unarmed. What had happened was the recruits went into combat with some ambushers and jumped a few levels in wrestling fairly quickly. While Recruits who didn't fight but only spared took about a season to get the same skill in wrestling. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 15:41, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

== Training when and with who ==

Would it be better to train everyone at different times?
People won't get as injured when sparring with someone with around equal attributes...I think.
And to do that you'll need to deactivate or put on duty those with high strength in case thats something that you can do to prevent injury. Or put those who are strong defensively with those who need training. Also, what I thought, since every job might develop some attributes slower than sparring or pumping, is to put them through training when their skills and use are not as needed and when they are needed again, they would be more efficient.
Is that painfully obvious to everyone else?
Something for everyone to figure out for themselves?
...yeah.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 08:25, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

== Danger ==

I once had a dorf who arrived in a migrnat wave and was and Axedwarf. As soon as he started sparring he cut of some guys head. Is there a way to change this? [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 10:52, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

:Undraft him. Give him a worse weapon. Give the other guys armour. Don't put him on sparring. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 02:36, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

::Heh, same question but my dorf is a swordsdwarf... the only one in the place with a steel sword and steel armour... my poor conscripts don't stand a chance with their leather armour and wooden shields apparently. Oh well at least he didn't kill my overly fertile recruit mayor (it seems she must be popular, maybe that explains all the babies she keeps having)...
::My thought had been to use my first real millitary dwarf as the squad leader but what kind of NCO goes around killing the troops during training![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:18, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Haven't dealt with a PO'd SGM have ya? :P --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:19, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Dwarven soldiers never intentionally kill one another during training. However, imagine if during the modern world, karate teachers taught their students sword technique by using steel weapons. You'd have a lot of dead students there, too. In this sense DF is quite realistic; the problem is that the game doesn't yet allow dwarves to use non-lethal practice weapons instead, short of making players jump through hoops. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:57, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

:I always put my trainees into a separate squad from anyone that hasn't undergone my training and equipping regime. Typically eliminates accidents like these, and helps keep my troops uniform, both in skill and equipment. Infact, they tend to stay in my trainee squad until they hit Elite level. Those that come pre-trained/equipped are usually placed into a 2nd squad and used as active guards. My civilian populace is placed into a 3rd squad lead by my favored dwarf.
:Squad 1 is almost always drafted and off duty, Squad Two is always on duty and either chasing down cretins or standing guard at my entrance for thieves and the like. Third Squad rarely is activated except in times of siege as an emergency retreat measure to force them to evacuate to behind the barracks. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:19, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

== Metal Bolts + Target Practice ==

"metal bolts will not be wasted on target practice."

I'm not sure if this is true in the latest version - I think target practice uses the least valuable of all bolts available. In my current fortress I witnessed marksdwarves using no-adjective iron bolts for target practice when masterpiece bone bolts (most of them with extra adornment) were the other available ones. --[[User:Felix the Cat|Felix the Cat]] 23:17, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

== Sparring Injuries From Furniture ==

I noticed that my soldiers were receiving a lot of brain and spinal injuries when sparring in a bedroom barracks. They were all wrestling, and using full bronze plate and bronze shields. The room layout looked like this:

####+####
#.......#
#.B.B.B.#
#.......#
+.B.B.B.+
#.......#
#.B.B.B.#
#.......#
####+####

Once I moved them to an empty barracks defined from a weapon rack, there were no more brain/spine injuries until they became legendary wrestlers/shield users and I switched them to weapon training. A single dwarf received a spinal injury afterwards, but not before achieving "great macedwarf" status. The others (9 of them) trained up to legendary weapon user status without incident.

Can anyone else verify that the presence of furniture in barracks increases the rate of sparring injuries? If so, this should be added to the artcle. --[[User:Chris Acheson|Chris Acheson]] 12:37, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

== Fortress guard ==

I know that the Fortress and Royal guards spar with great zeal, but will they use archery ranges if assigned crossbows? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 11:26, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
:Turns out yes, but not consistently. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 12:12, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

== Speed of Training while Sparring ==

I have noticed something abnormal between dwarves that train.

I Drafted 8 or so dwarves at roughly the same time. I have them all off duty and in their own individual squads right now since all of them being in a squad didn't seem to make a difference.

What I'm noticing is that some Dwarves shoot up in wrestling skill tremendously fast, almost unrealistically. While some Dwarves train so slowly that while I have Dwarves at Champion level others are still only proficient wrestlers. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 18:07, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Sparring

2008-09-16T22:07:15Z

Mission0: Speed of Training while Sparring

40d Talk:Sparring

2008-08-14T19:41:14Z

Mission0: /* Speed of training in combat and in sparring */

40d Talk:Ambush

2008-08-13T13:01:49Z

Mission0: /* Suppositions on ambush spawning/spotting */

Yesterday, I had an ambush. My woodcutter was ambushed by a group of one goblin bowman and five swordsmen. They were invisible, until attacked him. I had never seen anything like this until 38a. Think, it's something new, should we add the article? What do you think?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:23, 6 February 2008 (EST)

: yes definitely. I have been ambushed 3 times already in one year. These attacks seem to coincide with trading caravans. --[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 23:28, 6 February 2008 (EST)
::Is this really new? I started with 38a, but from reading i never expected anything else than thieves and ambushes with every caravan.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:17, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:::38a was the first time that caravans caused direct attacks. Previously the only worry was theives which could be easily defeated by recruits.--[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 14:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)
==Ambush messages==
In my experience with last version (38a) it showed 'Ambush, curse them' on kobold thieves, and 'Amush!' on beforementioned goblins. This surely needs verification--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 01:10, 7 February 2008 (EST)

:I have: 
:38a 
:Kobold thieves (2): An ambush! curse them!
:Goblins: An ambush! curse them!

:38c
:Kobold thieves (2): Thief! protect the hoard from skulking filth! (the different message may be caused by increased wealth)

:Goblins: An ambush! curse them!

:You can read back the whole announcements log (page up key) if you have the patience ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:17, 29 February 2008 (EST)

Toady stated that the "Ambush!" message appearing for kobold thieves was a bug, and it has now been fixed. [[User:Furiousfish|Furiousfish]] 21:26, 6 March 2008 (EST)

== Enemy squad supposedly fleeing after the commander's death ==

Well, in my case he got caged, does that count? The squad of the 5 remaining goblin bowmen, however did not retreat, and continued to advance until torn apart by dogs. Only 1, last(after the other 4 died) goblin started retreating. That was 38a. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 05:07, 1 March 2008 (EST)

:I just had my marksdwarves pump a goblin leader full of timber, and his squadmates just charged. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 08:15, 1 March 2008 (EST)

::Alright I'm killing that part then. It's obviously wrong now. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 09:44, 1 March 2008 (EST)

:::yep, just had an ambush too: leader dead, 1 unconscious, rest dead, and the last bowman was still charging.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 11:49, 1 March 2008 (EST)

== weapon trap did not cause warning ==

So i thought i had a squad of only 3 goblins, but it turned out a weapon trap had already finished of 2, but without giving the ambush-message. My cagetraps always gave the warning when they caught a goblin. Is this a known fact? how about other trap types? I think stone fall traps also triggered the warning before, but im not so sure anymore. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:16, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

== Suppositions on ambush spawning/spotting ==
So, it seems like the game generates (invisible) goblins to ambush you that actually move about the map, and are only revealed when spotted or when they attack. They still interact normally with map features and objects that don't require awareness.

There are times when you'll spot them from a different z-level. However, my supposition is that ambushers only ever spawn on a z-level from which they can access an open level of your fortress, even if there exist z-levels from which they could rain ranged death down upon your dwarves the game won't spawn them there if that level has no (path traceable) access to your fortress. Can anyone confirm? (Note that forbidden doors block path tracing, and if the only access to a given z-level is through a forbidden door...)

My anecdotal evidence: Given traps on 2 z-levels, one of which I had locked (forbade) all doors access to, and to which i often had LoS by dwarves walking about on raised walkways, I only ever had goblin 'ambushers' walk into traps on the level that actually had an open entrance to the base. (I was no longer actually being ambushed at that point, i just kept seeing corpses appear).

Similarly, I think siege forces only spawn on levels where they can path into your base, but i won't swear to that.

Possibly replace all instances of 'into your base' with 'to a dwarf'. I am unable to differentiate these with the games i've played.

Unrelatedly, I've also had a wild elephant spot a goblin thief for me before - can wild animals spot ambushers?

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:50, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

:I can verify the part about "to a dwarf" as I've played several isolationist games where migrants are just left outside beyond a channel-trench or what not to fend for themselves, and often get ambushers and/or siegers that slaughter them and then have nothing else to do (until sappers are created by Toady anyways;) ) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:10, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

Ambushes do NOT have to be an enemy force; it's anybody using the ambusher skill. After abandoning a propserous fortress and reclaiming it, I had several dwarves still there. Periodically I'd get the ambush message; it was almost always a hunter stalking game. --[[User:Propatriamori|Propatriamori]] 00:23, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

I can say that wild animals do spot ambushers. I have had it happen twice to me on df_28_181_39f. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 09:01, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

== Updated "Tips" ==
I tried to update the "tips" portion to be more relevant to actual ambushes, rather than to sieges. Hopefully I didn't do too bad a job, but I'm sure it still needs plenty of work. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 16:25, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:Some of the tips are useful, but I have a couple of complaints. Firstly, War Dogs are not useless. You can chain them to important locations, and discover ambushes a lot sooner then normal. Secondly, moats do not work. If you have a moat, and there is no bridge, the invader AI will completely break, and they will just stand still for eternity. A one way entrance to your fortress filled with traps might be better, but I'm not sure if that's possible. Can anyone confirm if one way corridors are any way feasable? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:25, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

::This is the sort of thing I meant by "still needs plenty of work"...namely clarifications in this case.
::With War Dogs, I didn't mean that they were useless per se, and I actually do mention using them to detect ambushes earlier than normal. However, in order to ''fight'', they have to get to the fight in the first place. But if you're trying to cover something over a large area (such as a road you're building or a caravan route that goes to the far end of the map), you start to need a LOT of packs of dogs in various places to make sure that one is close enough. So while you can use them just fine for spotting and for their usual base-defense duties, you need an insane number of dogs to include them in your anti-ambush reaction plans as ''combatants''.
::As for moats, yes, cutting off an area entirely will break the pathfinding AI, but that goes for ''any'' situation a moat is used. What I meant by cutting off an area with moats is to use moats to cut off all access routes ''except the ones that go through your fortress''. There's still a path to the area, but the only path involves going through your Main Entrance, and thus your Main Entrance's defenses. In turn, the enemy can't use the access route as a "back door" because the moat is in the way. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 21:34, 10 June 2008 (EDT)
:::Oh right, I guess that would work fairly well. A tip for noobs; If a goblin raid appears, draft the whole population into the military and station them in the deepest part of your fortress. This work's pretty well as an alternative to watching all of your peasants die. By the way, is there a way of stopping all my fortress guards from running straight into the battlefield and getting their butts kicked? Or should I just not appoint a Sheriff at all. Does it matter? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 03:43, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

::::It may be a coincidence, but keeping the "inhabited" area - and thus any guards - as far away from your main defenses as possible seems to be doing a good job of keeping my Fortress Guards away from the fray. My living quarters, kitchens, workshops, etc. are seperated from my ''last'' line of defense by a fairly long corridor, and that is seperated from the very first line of defense by a LOT of trap-filled space to travel through. So by the time the Guards would even notice that there's invaders to charge, the attackers have already spent five minutes being torn apart by Weapon Traps and Ballistae. As for drafting everybody, that works as a last resort, but it would be best to try to design the fortress to keep that from becoming necessary in the first place (which, admittedly, is easier said than done). --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 19:17, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::One-Way corridors would solve this problem, because the invader AI would remain unbroken. The trouble is trying to keep your people from foolishly running into the fray. The only thing I can think of is this kind of setup;

>[]**************....

Where the stars represent a retractable bridge, the box represents a pressure plate, and the arrow means the stairway out of the pit below. Perhaps that could work? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:19, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::If you could manage a one-way corridor, sure, it would keep your people from running into the fray. It'd have to be a series of bridges/pressure plates/whatever though to try to make it work as one. The way I've managed to keep my citizens out of the fray is when an enemy is detected, I use the "cancel everything outside and set "dwarves stay indoors"" method of keeping everybody inside, but I have a skylight a ways behind my defenses. So they still go running to pick up the stuff and don't stop until they hit sunlight, but the skylight means that they hit sunlight and turn around before they get to the battlefield. It's something like this:
::::::(Fortress) - (Skylight) - (Corridor Of Doom) - (Outside) --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 16:54, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

== Kobold Ambush and Traps ==

I have witnessed Kobold ambushers (4 swordsman and 1 spearmen) walk straight over weapon traps and stone-fall traps. I have also witnessed the ambushers *note, not the theives I watched it as it happened* picklock one of my locked doors to gain access into my fortress. I do not know if this applies to cage traps yet. Once this is confirmed by someone else it should be added to the page. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 09:21, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Tree

2008-08-12T14:54:48Z

Mission0:

So what's the deal with named trees near elf settlements? They seem to stop a short distance from the location of the closest elf. I think I accidentally cut one down, but the elves haven't responded. [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:48, 12 November 2007 (EST)

== Underground tree farm ==

Well, out of fear of goblin ambushes... and many dead dwarfs later. I decided to make my very own tree farm. Ive got it working, and theres trees growing, but there are rocks all over the place. Do I need to move these rocks to be able to designate these trees to be cut down? I would prefer not to move these 3 or 400 rocks, but what must be done, must be done. --Wafl
:You do have to move the rocks. You can use the Designate Dump [[Macros_and_keymaps|AutoHotkey script]] to quickly dump a large area of stone, though. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 00:17, 8 April 2008 (EDT)

== Grow Time ==
In my current fortress, I've deforested the map. Then after it I dried the pools. This was in summer of 1055. Now is the late spring of 1057 and I have full-grown Mahogany in one of the pools. It matured in less than two years! Need to check this--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 08:27, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

Do items produced from different tree's wood have different value? Are there more valuable trees than others? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 20:27, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
:I'm pretty sure all wood is equally valuable. But different woods have different weights, feather tree wood being extremely light. --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 21:07, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Growing trees in soil ==

I watered my stone in order to get trees to grow, but trees are not growing in my soil. Do I need to water the soil?--[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 11:38, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:Trees will not grow inside your fortress, unless you channel out the ceiling. If you want to make wood inside your fort you need to embark on a map with cave river or cave lake. When you discover them all non-smoothed muddied natural floor tiles will have a chance to spawn tower cap sapling. They don't need to be muddied with water from this underground feature, any mud will do. Channeling aboveground river underground won't create trees. To find underground water you can use regional prospector utility, it works very well. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 15:15, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

== Magma resistance ==

Trees resist magma like they do resist water. Shouldn't that be included in the article? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 15:16, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

== Deciduousness ==

I'm assuming that the "Autumnal" heading in the table was referring to trees whose leaves change colour in the autumn. I've changed the heading to "Deciduous", because as far as I am aware "Autumnal" is used to describe a tree currently undergoing the colour change, rather than a tree which is capable of it. Fun with pedantry! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 22:49, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

== Supports ==

I know it sounds crazy but once in adventure mode I smashed a Wolf onto a tree from the z-level above it. The dead body of the wolf stayed there for until I used the Travel Mode thing. Can anyone back this up? --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 03:43, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Tree

2008-08-11T16:40:51Z

Mission0: /* Colored Trees */

So what's the deal with named trees near elf settlements? They seem to stop a short distance from the location of the closest elf. I think I accidentally cut one down, but the elves haven't responded. [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:48, 12 November 2007 (EST)

== Underground tree farm ==

Well, out of fear of goblin ambushes... and many dead dwarfs later. I decided to make my very own tree farm. Ive got it working, and theres trees growing, but there are rocks all over the place. Do I need to move these rocks to be able to designate these trees to be cut down? I would prefer not to move these 3 or 400 rocks, but what must be done, must be done. --Wafl
:You do have to move the rocks. You can use the Designate Dump [[Macros_and_keymaps|AutoHotkey script]] to quickly dump a large area of stone, though. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 00:17, 8 April 2008 (EDT)

== Grow Time ==
In my current fortress, I've deforested the map. Then after it I dried the pools. This was in summer of 1055. Now is the late spring of 1057 and I have full-grown Mahogany in one of the pools. It matured in less than two years! Need to check this--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 08:27, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

Do items produced from different tree's wood have different value? Are there more valuable trees than others? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 20:27, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
:I'm pretty sure all wood is equally valuable. But different woods have different weights, feather tree wood being extremely light. --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 21:07, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Growing trees in soil ==

I watered my stone in order to get trees to grow, but trees are not growing in my soil. Do I need to water the soil?--[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 11:38, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:Trees will not grow inside your fortress, unless you channel out the ceiling. If you want to make wood inside your fort you need to embark on a map with cave river or cave lake. When you discover them all non-smoothed muddied natural floor tiles will have a chance to spawn tower cap sapling. They don't need to be muddied with water from this underground feature, any mud will do. Channeling aboveground river underground won't create trees. To find underground water you can use regional prospector utility, it works very well. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 15:15, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

== Magma resistance ==

Trees resist magma like they do resist water. Shouldn't that be included in the article? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 15:16, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

== Colored Trees ==

In the current version df_28_181_39f trees are changing color. On my map I have seen many trees go from the normal green color they have to yellow and orange. None of the trees were of that color when I first embarked so perhaps age has something to do with it.[[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 02:14, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

:And have you taken note of what season it is, when these trees change colour? :) --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 03:24, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

:: The trees don't all change color at the same time. I've even watched trees of the same type change color at different times. I'm still in my first year and just now hit Winter. All the Trees are Orange now.[[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 12:40, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
:: You may be right, the trees that changed color turned into leafless trees when the winter hit.

40d Talk:Ambush

2008-08-11T13:21:23Z

Mission0: /* Kobold Ambush and Traps */

Yesterday, I had an ambush. My woodcutter was ambushed by a group of one goblin bowman and five swordsmen. They were invisible, until attacked him. I had never seen anything like this until 38a. Think, it's something new, should we add the article? What do you think?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:23, 6 February 2008 (EST)

: yes definitely. I have been ambushed 3 times already in one year. These attacks seem to coincide with trading caravans. --[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 23:28, 6 February 2008 (EST)
::Is this really new? I started with 38a, but from reading i never expected anything else than thieves and ambushes with every caravan.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:17, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:::38a was the first time that caravans caused direct attacks. Previously the only worry was theives which could be easily defeated by recruits.--[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 14:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)
==Ambush messages==
In my experience with last version (38a) it showed 'Ambush, curse them' on kobold thieves, and 'Amush!' on beforementioned goblins. This surely needs verification--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 01:10, 7 February 2008 (EST)

:I have: 
:38a 
:Kobold thieves (2): An ambush! curse them!
:Goblins: An ambush! curse them!

:38c
:Kobold thieves (2): Thief! protect the hoard from skulking filth! (the different message may be caused by increased wealth)

:Goblins: An ambush! curse them!

:You can read back the whole announcements log (page up key) if you have the patience ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:17, 29 February 2008 (EST)

Toady stated that the "Ambush!" message appearing for kobold thieves was a bug, and it has now been fixed. [[User:Furiousfish|Furiousfish]] 21:26, 6 March 2008 (EST)

== Enemy squad supposedly fleeing after the commander's death ==

Well, in my case he got caged, does that count? The squad of the 5 remaining goblin bowmen, however did not retreat, and continued to advance until torn apart by dogs. Only 1, last(after the other 4 died) goblin started retreating. That was 38a. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 05:07, 1 March 2008 (EST)

:I just had my marksdwarves pump a goblin leader full of timber, and his squadmates just charged. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 08:15, 1 March 2008 (EST)

::Alright I'm killing that part then. It's obviously wrong now. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 09:44, 1 March 2008 (EST)

:::yep, just had an ambush too: leader dead, 1 unconscious, rest dead, and the last bowman was still charging.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 11:49, 1 March 2008 (EST)

== weapon trap did not cause warning ==

So i thought i had a squad of only 3 goblins, but it turned out a weapon trap had already finished of 2, but without giving the ambush-message. My cagetraps always gave the warning when they caught a goblin. Is this a known fact? how about other trap types? I think stone fall traps also triggered the warning before, but im not so sure anymore. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:16, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

== Suppositions on ambush spawning/spotting ==
So, it seems like the game generates (invisible) goblins to ambush you that actually move about the map, and are only revealed when spotted or when they attack. They still interact normally with map features and objects that don't require awareness.

There are times when you'll spot them from a different z-level. However, my supposition is that ambushers only ever spawn on a z-level from which they can access an open level of your fortress, even if there exist z-levels from which they could rain ranged death down upon your dwarves the game won't spawn them there if that level has no (path traceable) access to your fortress. Can anyone confirm? (Note that forbidden doors block path tracing, and if the only access to a given z-level is through a forbidden door...)

My anecdotal evidence: Given traps on 2 z-levels, one of which I had locked (forbade) all doors access to, and to which i often had LoS by dwarves walking about on raised walkways, I only ever had goblin 'ambushers' walk into traps on the level that actually had an open entrance to the base. (I was no longer actually being ambushed at that point, i just kept seeing corpses appear).

Similarly, I think siege forces only spawn on levels where they can path into your base, but i won't swear to that.

Possibly replace all instances of 'into your base' with 'to a dwarf'. I am unable to differentiate these with the games i've played.

Unrelatedly, I've also had a wild elephant spot a goblin thief for me before - can wild animals spot ambushers?

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:50, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

:I can verify the part about "to a dwarf" as I've played several isolationist games where migrants are just left outside beyond a channel-trench or what not to fend for themselves, and often get ambushers and/or siegers that slaughter them and then have nothing else to do (until sappers are created by Toady anyways;) ) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:10, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

Ambushes do NOT have to be an enemy force; it's anybody using the ambusher skill. After abandoning a propserous fortress and reclaiming it, I had several dwarves still there. Periodically I'd get the ambush message; it was almost always a hunter stalking game. --[[User:Propatriamori|Propatriamori]] 00:23, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

== Updated "Tips" ==
I tried to update the "tips" portion to be more relevant to actual ambushes, rather than to sieges. Hopefully I didn't do too bad a job, but I'm sure it still needs plenty of work. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 16:25, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:Some of the tips are useful, but I have a couple of complaints. Firstly, War Dogs are not useless. You can chain them to important locations, and discover ambushes a lot sooner then normal. Secondly, moats do not work. If you have a moat, and there is no bridge, the invader AI will completely break, and they will just stand still for eternity. A one way entrance to your fortress filled with traps might be better, but I'm not sure if that's possible. Can anyone confirm if one way corridors are any way feasable? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:25, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

::This is the sort of thing I meant by "still needs plenty of work"...namely clarifications in this case.
::With War Dogs, I didn't mean that they were useless per se, and I actually do mention using them to detect ambushes earlier than normal. However, in order to ''fight'', they have to get to the fight in the first place. But if you're trying to cover something over a large area (such as a road you're building or a caravan route that goes to the far end of the map), you start to need a LOT of packs of dogs in various places to make sure that one is close enough. So while you can use them just fine for spotting and for their usual base-defense duties, you need an insane number of dogs to include them in your anti-ambush reaction plans as ''combatants''.
::As for moats, yes, cutting off an area entirely will break the pathfinding AI, but that goes for ''any'' situation a moat is used. What I meant by cutting off an area with moats is to use moats to cut off all access routes ''except the ones that go through your fortress''. There's still a path to the area, but the only path involves going through your Main Entrance, and thus your Main Entrance's defenses. In turn, the enemy can't use the access route as a "back door" because the moat is in the way. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 21:34, 10 June 2008 (EDT)
:::Oh right, I guess that would work fairly well. A tip for noobs; If a goblin raid appears, draft the whole population into the military and station them in the deepest part of your fortress. This work's pretty well as an alternative to watching all of your peasants die. By the way, is there a way of stopping all my fortress guards from running straight into the battlefield and getting their butts kicked? Or should I just not appoint a Sheriff at all. Does it matter? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 03:43, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

::::It may be a coincidence, but keeping the "inhabited" area - and thus any guards - as far away from your main defenses as possible seems to be doing a good job of keeping my Fortress Guards away from the fray. My living quarters, kitchens, workshops, etc. are seperated from my ''last'' line of defense by a fairly long corridor, and that is seperated from the very first line of defense by a LOT of trap-filled space to travel through. So by the time the Guards would even notice that there's invaders to charge, the attackers have already spent five minutes being torn apart by Weapon Traps and Ballistae. As for drafting everybody, that works as a last resort, but it would be best to try to design the fortress to keep that from becoming necessary in the first place (which, admittedly, is easier said than done). --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 19:17, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::One-Way corridors would solve this problem, because the invader AI would remain unbroken. The trouble is trying to keep your people from foolishly running into the fray. The only thing I can think of is this kind of setup;

>[]**************....

Where the stars represent a retractable bridge, the box represents a pressure plate, and the arrow means the stairway out of the pit below. Perhaps that could work? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:19, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::If you could manage a one-way corridor, sure, it would keep your people from running into the fray. It'd have to be a series of bridges/pressure plates/whatever though to try to make it work as one. The way I've managed to keep my citizens out of the fray is when an enemy is detected, I use the "cancel everything outside and set "dwarves stay indoors"" method of keeping everybody inside, but I have a skylight a ways behind my defenses. So they still go running to pick up the stuff and don't stop until they hit sunlight, but the skylight means that they hit sunlight and turn around before they get to the battlefield. It's something like this:
::::::(Fortress) - (Skylight) - (Corridor Of Doom) - (Outside) --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 16:54, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

== Kobold Ambush and Traps ==

I have witnessed Kobold ambushers (4 swordsman and 1 spearmen) walk straight over weapon traps and stone-fall traps. I have also witnessed the ambushers *note, not the theives I watched it as it happened* picklock one of my locked doors to gain access into my fortress. I do not know if this applies to cage traps yet. Once this is confirmed by someone else it should be added to the page. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 09:21, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Ambush

2008-08-11T13:20:26Z

Mission0: Kobold Ambush and Traps

Yesterday, I had an ambush. My woodcutter was ambushed by a group of one goblin bowman and five swordsmen. They were invisible, until attacked him. I had never seen anything like this until 38a. Think, it's something new, should we add the article? What do you think?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:23, 6 February 2008 (EST)

: yes definitely. I have been ambushed 3 times already in one year. These attacks seem to coincide with trading caravans. --[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 23:28, 6 February 2008 (EST)
::Is this really new? I started with 38a, but from reading i never expected anything else than thieves and ambushes with every caravan.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:17, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:::38a was the first time that caravans caused direct attacks. Previously the only worry was theives which could be easily defeated by recruits.--[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 14:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)
==Ambush messages==
In my experience with last version (38a) it showed 'Ambush, curse them' on kobold thieves, and 'Amush!' on beforementioned goblins. This surely needs verification--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 01:10, 7 February 2008 (EST)

:I have: 
:38a 
:Kobold thieves (2): An ambush! curse them!
:Goblins: An ambush! curse them!

:38c
:Kobold thieves (2): Thief! protect the hoard from skulking filth! (the different message may be caused by increased wealth)

:Goblins: An ambush! curse them!

:You can read back the whole announcements log (page up key) if you have the patience ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:17, 29 February 2008 (EST)

Toady stated that the "Ambush!" message appearing for kobold thieves was a bug, and it has now been fixed. [[User:Furiousfish|Furiousfish]] 21:26, 6 March 2008 (EST)

== Enemy squad supposedly fleeing after the commander's death ==

Well, in my case he got caged, does that count? The squad of the 5 remaining goblin bowmen, however did not retreat, and continued to advance until torn apart by dogs. Only 1, last(after the other 4 died) goblin started retreating. That was 38a. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 05:07, 1 March 2008 (EST)

:I just had my marksdwarves pump a goblin leader full of timber, and his squadmates just charged. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 08:15, 1 March 2008 (EST)

::Alright I'm killing that part then. It's obviously wrong now. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 09:44, 1 March 2008 (EST)

:::yep, just had an ambush too: leader dead, 1 unconscious, rest dead, and the last bowman was still charging.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 11:49, 1 March 2008 (EST)

== weapon trap did not cause warning ==

So i thought i had a squad of only 3 goblins, but it turned out a weapon trap had already finished of 2, but without giving the ambush-message. My cagetraps always gave the warning when they caught a goblin. Is this a known fact? how about other trap types? I think stone fall traps also triggered the warning before, but im not so sure anymore. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:16, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

== Suppositions on ambush spawning/spotting ==
So, it seems like the game generates (invisible) goblins to ambush you that actually move about the map, and are only revealed when spotted or when they attack. They still interact normally with map features and objects that don't require awareness.

There are times when you'll spot them from a different z-level. However, my supposition is that ambushers only ever spawn on a z-level from which they can access an open level of your fortress, even if there exist z-levels from which they could rain ranged death down upon your dwarves the game won't spawn them there if that level has no (path traceable) access to your fortress. Can anyone confirm? (Note that forbidden doors block path tracing, and if the only access to a given z-level is through a forbidden door...)

My anecdotal evidence: Given traps on 2 z-levels, one of which I had locked (forbade) all doors access to, and to which i often had LoS by dwarves walking about on raised walkways, I only ever had goblin 'ambushers' walk into traps on the level that actually had an open entrance to the base. (I was no longer actually being ambushed at that point, i just kept seeing corpses appear).

Similarly, I think siege forces only spawn on levels where they can path into your base, but i won't swear to that.

Possibly replace all instances of 'into your base' with 'to a dwarf'. I am unable to differentiate these with the games i've played.

Unrelatedly, I've also had a wild elephant spot a goblin thief for me before - can wild animals spot ambushers?

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:50, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

:I can verify the part about "to a dwarf" as I've played several isolationist games where migrants are just left outside beyond a channel-trench or what not to fend for themselves, and often get ambushers and/or siegers that slaughter them and then have nothing else to do (until sappers are created by Toady anyways;) ) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:10, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

Ambushes do NOT have to be an enemy force; it's anybody using the ambusher skill. After abandoning a propserous fortress and reclaiming it, I had several dwarves still there. Periodically I'd get the ambush message; it was almost always a hunter stalking game. --[[User:Propatriamori|Propatriamori]] 00:23, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

== Updated "Tips" ==
I tried to update the "tips" portion to be more relevant to actual ambushes, rather than to sieges. Hopefully I didn't do too bad a job, but I'm sure it still needs plenty of work. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 16:25, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:Some of the tips are useful, but I have a couple of complaints. Firstly, War Dogs are not useless. You can chain them to important locations, and discover ambushes a lot sooner then normal. Secondly, moats do not work. If you have a moat, and there is no bridge, the invader AI will completely break, and they will just stand still for eternity. A one way entrance to your fortress filled with traps might be better, but I'm not sure if that's possible. Can anyone confirm if one way corridors are any way feasable? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:25, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

::This is the sort of thing I meant by "still needs plenty of work"...namely clarifications in this case.
::With War Dogs, I didn't mean that they were useless per se, and I actually do mention using them to detect ambushes earlier than normal. However, in order to ''fight'', they have to get to the fight in the first place. But if you're trying to cover something over a large area (such as a road you're building or a caravan route that goes to the far end of the map), you start to need a LOT of packs of dogs in various places to make sure that one is close enough. So while you can use them just fine for spotting and for their usual base-defense duties, you need an insane number of dogs to include them in your anti-ambush reaction plans as ''combatants''.
::As for moats, yes, cutting off an area entirely will break the pathfinding AI, but that goes for ''any'' situation a moat is used. What I meant by cutting off an area with moats is to use moats to cut off all access routes ''except the ones that go through your fortress''. There's still a path to the area, but the only path involves going through your Main Entrance, and thus your Main Entrance's defenses. In turn, the enemy can't use the access route as a "back door" because the moat is in the way. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 21:34, 10 June 2008 (EDT)
:::Oh right, I guess that would work fairly well. A tip for noobs; If a goblin raid appears, draft the whole population into the military and station them in the deepest part of your fortress. This work's pretty well as an alternative to watching all of your peasants die. By the way, is there a way of stopping all my fortress guards from running straight into the battlefield and getting their butts kicked? Or should I just not appoint a Sheriff at all. Does it matter? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 03:43, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

::::It may be a coincidence, but keeping the "inhabited" area - and thus any guards - as far away from your main defenses as possible seems to be doing a good job of keeping my Fortress Guards away from the fray. My living quarters, kitchens, workshops, etc. are seperated from my ''last'' line of defense by a fairly long corridor, and that is seperated from the very first line of defense by a LOT of trap-filled space to travel through. So by the time the Guards would even notice that there's invaders to charge, the attackers have already spent five minutes being torn apart by Weapon Traps and Ballistae. As for drafting everybody, that works as a last resort, but it would be best to try to design the fortress to keep that from becoming necessary in the first place (which, admittedly, is easier said than done). --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 19:17, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::One-Way corridors would solve this problem, because the invader AI would remain unbroken. The trouble is trying to keep your people from foolishly running into the fray. The only thing I can think of is this kind of setup;

>[]**************....

Where the stars represent a retractable bridge, the box represents a pressure plate, and the arrow means the stairway out of the pit below. Perhaps that could work? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:19, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::If you could manage a one-way corridor, sure, it would keep your people from running into the fray. It'd have to be a series of bridges/pressure plates/whatever though to try to make it work as one. The way I've managed to keep my citizens out of the fray is when an enemy is detected, I use the "cancel everything outside and set "dwarves stay indoors"" method of keeping everybody inside, but I have a skylight a ways behind my defenses. So they still go running to pick up the stuff and don't stop until they hit sunlight, but the skylight means that they hit sunlight and turn around before they get to the battlefield. It's something like this:
::::::(Fortress) - (Skylight) - (Corridor Of Doom) - (Outside) --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 16:54, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

== Kobold Ambush and Traps ==

I have witnessed Kobold ambushers (4 swordsman and 1 spearmen) walk straight over weapon traps and stone-fall traps. I have also witnessed the ambushers *note, not the theives I watched it as it happened* picklock one of my locked doors to gain access into my fortress. I do not know if this applies to cage traps yet. Once this is confirmed by someone else it should be added to the page.

40d Talk:Tree

2008-08-11T13:09:33Z

Mission0: /* Colored Trees */

So what's the deal with named trees near elf settlements? They seem to stop a short distance from the location of the closest elf. I think I accidentally cut one down, but the elves haven't responded. [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:48, 12 November 2007 (EST)

== Underground tree farm ==

Well, out of fear of goblin ambushes... and many dead dwarfs later. I decided to make my very own tree farm. Ive got it working, and theres trees growing, but there are rocks all over the place. Do I need to move these rocks to be able to designate these trees to be cut down? I would prefer not to move these 3 or 400 rocks, but what must be done, must be done. --Wafl
:You do have to move the rocks. You can use the Designate Dump [[Macros_and_keymaps|AutoHotkey script]] to quickly dump a large area of stone, though. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 00:17, 8 April 2008 (EDT)

== Grow Time ==
In my current fortress, I've deforested the map. Then after it I dried the pools. This was in summer of 1055. Now is the late spring of 1057 and I have full-grown Mahogany in one of the pools. It matured in less than two years! Need to check this--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 08:27, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

Do items produced from different tree's wood have different value? Are there more valuable trees than others? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 20:27, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
:I'm pretty sure all wood is equally valuable. But different woods have different weights, feather tree wood being extremely light. --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 21:07, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Growing trees in soil ==

I watered my stone in order to get trees to grow, but trees are not growing in my soil. Do I need to water the soil?--[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 11:38, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:Trees will not grow inside your fortress, unless you channel out the ceiling. If you want to make wood inside your fort you need to embark on a map with cave river or cave lake. When you discover them all non-smoothed muddied natural floor tiles will have a chance to spawn tower cap sapling. They don't need to be muddied with water from this underground feature, any mud will do. Channeling aboveground river underground won't create trees. To find underground water you can use regional prospector utility, it works very well. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 15:15, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

== Magma resistance ==

Trees resist magma like they do resist water. Shouldn't that be included in the article? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 15:16, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

== Colored Trees ==

In the current version df_28_181_39f trees are changing color. On my map I have seen many trees go from the normal green color they have to yellow and orange. None of the trees were of that color when I first embarked so perhaps age has something to do with it.[[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 02:14, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

:And have you taken note of what season it is, when these trees change colour? :) --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 03:24, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

:: The trees don't all change color at the same time. I've even watched trees of the same type change color at different times. I'm still in my first year and just now hit Winter. All the Trees are Orange now.

40d Talk:Tree

2008-08-11T06:14:09Z

Mission0: Colored Trees

So what's the deal with named trees near elf settlements? They seem to stop a short distance from the location of the closest elf. I think I accidentally cut one down, but the elves haven't responded. [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:48, 12 November 2007 (EST)

== Underground tree farm ==

Well, out of fear of goblin ambushes... and many dead dwarfs later. I decided to make my very own tree farm. Ive got it working, and theres trees growing, but there are rocks all over the place. Do I need to move these rocks to be able to designate these trees to be cut down? I would prefer not to move these 3 or 400 rocks, but what must be done, must be done. --Wafl
:You do have to move the rocks. You can use the Designate Dump [[Macros_and_keymaps|AutoHotkey script]] to quickly dump a large area of stone, though. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 00:17, 8 April 2008 (EDT)

== Grow Time ==
In my current fortress, I've deforested the map. Then after it I dried the pools. This was in summer of 1055. Now is the late spring of 1057 and I have full-grown Mahogany in one of the pools. It matured in less than two years! Need to check this--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 08:27, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

Do items produced from different tree's wood have different value? Are there more valuable trees than others? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 20:27, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
:I'm pretty sure all wood is equally valuable. But different woods have different weights, feather tree wood being extremely light. --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 21:07, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Growing trees in soil ==

I watered my stone in order to get trees to grow, but trees are not growing in my soil. Do I need to water the soil?--[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 11:38, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:Trees will not grow inside your fortress, unless you channel out the ceiling. If you want to make wood inside your fort you need to embark on a map with cave river or cave lake. When you discover them all non-smoothed muddied natural floor tiles will have a chance to spawn tower cap sapling. They don't need to be muddied with water from this underground feature, any mud will do. Channeling aboveground river underground won't create trees. To find underground water you can use regional prospector utility, it works very well. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 15:15, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

== Magma resistance ==

Trees resist magma like they do resist water. Shouldn't that be included in the article? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 15:16, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

== Colored Trees ==

In the current version df_28_181_39f trees are changing color. On my map I have seen many trees go from the normal green color they have to yellow and orange. None of the trees were of that color when I first embarked so perhaps age has something to do with it.[[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 02:14, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Graphics set repository

2008-08-10T18:52:49Z

Mission0: /* HOWTO use Mayday graphic tileset in v0.28.181.39. */

This would more accurately be called [[List of user graphics sets]], to match the [[List of user character sets]] page. The info about graphics sets can be merged into [[Tilesets]]. Also, it seems DR is the only one updated for the new version, does anyone care to test the others? Do they work, and if not, will they ever get updated? --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:19, 5 November 2007 (EST)

This is a message to the user "Duplex," who posted a cool little DR-style graphics update to the page: Could you please list your graphics_example.txt so I can know what dwarves are what? I'd love to implement this in the new version, unless DR publishes his work soon. Also, I think it'd be nice to have a little less boxiness to the current DR set, and was wondering if a simple dithering pass or something would make the icons appear less "boxy" and more smooth against a black background. Ideas? [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 14:49, 11 November 2007 (EST)

I've created and added [[Template:GraphicsSet]] to match the outline of [[List of user character sets]] page. I don't know what we should do with the outdated sets. Some of the links don't work and it just looks sloppy. Should it just be deleted? [[User:Plac1d|Plac1d]] 11:40, 23 November 2007 (EST)

== 12x12 Tileset ==
Go on, someone make a 10x12 or 12x12 tileset? That way people using the default tileset, or me with my 12x12 solid curses tileset, can enjoy pretty gfx too. My screen is too small for 16x16, though I'm tempted to give the 8x10 one a go! --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 11:32, 18 December 2007 (EST)
:Hmmm. Personally, I find that 16x16's pixel budget is already too tight for a proper "graphic" gfx set. Anything smaller would violate what I term first principle of icon design :Icons must be distinguishable (not just different!). Anything smaller, I think I would switch to partial symbolic means. e.g. have a distinct background image (maybe a dwarf head?) denoting the race and a foreground symbol (like a pick for miners) to denote profession. I would say that I am trully interested, but I have my hands tied up right now with 16x16 which will take a looong time to approach completion. No promises, but if I need a break from 16x16, I might do a "sample" set for 12x12 (e.g. just all the major profession groups) But if you really want one badly, why not try starting a new set yourself. It's fun! -- [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 21:32, 18 December 2007 (EST)
::ok, what I did is I took my WIP 16x16 and do a direct shrinking + sharpening. This is the result. [[Media:Sphr_dwarves_12_12.png|Sphr_dwarves_12_12.png]]. You will have to grab Veryinky's text file and modify the data there for 12x12 though. Feedback is welcome but I prob can't devote time to the 12x12 icons. The most I can do is use a semi-automated way of generating it from the 16x16 version. sorry about that. I will find time to extract out the text part and add somewhere to wiki so that we don't have to do some nasty rapidshare download (I always can't seem to download from it :( ) just for some text. Or you could just do your cut and paste directly over whatever bmp file you are using right now -- [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 21:45, 18 December 2007 (EST)
:Thanks Sphr, I've packaged it all together into an easy to install mod: [http://mkv25.net/showcase/df/sphr_mkv_12x12_graphics_v0.1.zip download (59KB)] (v0.1)
:It doesn't look bad, not at all. I'd argue 12x12 is plenty, we're spoilt with the number of pixels we have these days! Remember the first Command & Conquer? Animated infantry units had whopping 11x11 pixels. ... I look forward to your updates, my fort with only 7 dwarves doesn't give much opportunity for detail. [http://mkv25.net/showcase/df/sphr_12x12_test1.png Screenshot]. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]
::Sorry about the half-pink pixels. Thought that I got rid of those by using nearest neighbor when resizing. Hmm. yeah. It turned out better than I thought. I think it is relatively safe to say that at least the major profession groups are distinguishable. It remains to see how distinguishable the sub professions are. Guess we can only find out after we test with a much larger dwarf colony. -- [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 11:51, 19 December 2007 (EST)
:Updated the 12x12 version. Can be found [[User:Sphr/gfx_set#12x12|here]]. I've cleaned up the transparent pixels after shrinking, but I didn't test it. Feel free to try. -- [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 15:09, 21 December 2007 (EST)
:Thanks, those pixels look much sharper now. Have included it in v0.2 of the mod package: [[http://www.mkv25.net/showcase/df/sphr_mkv_12x12_graphics_v0.2.zip sphr_mkv_12x12_graphics_v0.2.zip]] (61.5KB)
== Text Data for manual install users ==

If the tileset is simple (1 image), it could be beneficial to follow PTTG's smart example of including the text data in the image page itself, i.e. the page you get to when you click on a wiki image created by something like: <nowiki>[[Image:PTTG16x16graph.png]]</nowiki> ) , so that users can just copy and paste the text data directly into raw/graphics. And given that the image (usually png) is available for saving, users don't have to download anything explicitly from any file hosting sites. I think it is definitely an alternative to consider esp when compared to file hosting services like rapidhshare (which I always have problem with), and although other file-hosting (esp those on personal sites) are fine, they may have stricter traffic controls.
-- [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 04:14, 21 December 2007 (EST)

== graphics sets vs object tilesets ==
I was the one who renamed object tilesets to graphics sets when the wiki was migrated to the 3d version, and I'm starting to regret it. I propose renaming it back to 'object tilesets' and modifying all graphics sets links to point to that once again. [[User:Lord Nightmare|Lord Nightmare]] 17:18, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:Nah, it's fine the way it is for now. Because objects are not currently graphically supported yet, and only consist of living entities, it should rather be called 'creature tilesets'. I would wait until Toady adds '''"Core50, TILESET SUPPORT, (Future): Allow graphical tiles to be used for all game objects"''' before changing the name to anything. After that, there could be a multitude of tilesets such as 'object tilesets','creature tilesets','terrain tilesets' ect. 'Character tilesets' will be used for traditional ASCII. [[User:Plac1d|Plac1d]] 21:37, 8 March 2008 (EST)

== Questions: making your own set==
Could some one post some pointers to making your own set? I have a few questions: how do you know what tags are available to make tiles for? Does the graphics example that comes with the game include all possible race/class tags? What is the format of this file? I see for creatures it is [class:racepage:x:y:??:?Status (like undead/guard/not?)]

Is it possible to make a champion axedwarf graphic? Or will all champions of the same status look the same?

Do the characters have to have a shaded border around them? I notice most do.
[[User:Tulthix|Tulthix]] 10:48, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

:So here is a complete text document you would find in the "raw/graphics" folder for my new fake graphics set:<tt>

[DEFAULT:DUMBDWARVES:0:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT] 
[Profession:TILE_PAGE:X:Y:Color:Texture]

graphics_mygraphicsLOL «'''You'll be saving the text document as this name (graphics_mygraphicsLOL.txt) This name should match the folder name you will be using in "raw/graphics".''' 
[OBJECT:GRAPHICS]
<nowiki>------------------------------</nowiki>
below are dwarves «'''Feel free to add text anywhere outside brackets''' 
[TILE_PAGE:DUMBDWARVES] «'''This name doesn't have to match any creature name, folder name, or picture name'''
[FILE:mygraphicsLOL/sevendwarves.bmp] «'''Look at picture for file structure'''
[TILE_DIM:16:16] «'''Height:Width - Pixels per tile'''
[PAGE_DIM:5:2] «'''Width:Height - Tiles per picture''' 
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:DWARF] «'''You must use the correct use of spelling. See below'''
[DEFAULT:DUMBDWARVES:0:0:'''ADD_COLOR''':DEFAULT]
↑ '''PTTG's graphics set is an example how this is used'''
[STANDARD:DUMBDWARVES:1:0:'''AS_IS''':DEFAULT]
↑ '''But you will most likely want to use this to keep the colors used in the picture unchanged'''
[MINER:DUMBDWARVES:2:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
↓ '''This name matches the TILE_PAGE name I made for its appropriate picture, sevendwarves.bmp '''
[CHILD:'''DUMBDWARVES''':3:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[BABY:DUMBDWARVES:4:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
['''DEFAULT''':DUMBDWARVES:0:1:AS_IS:'''ZOMBIE'''] «'''A ZOMBIE'''
['''SWORDSMAN''':DUMBDWARVES:1:1:AS_IS:'''ZOMBIE'''] «'''A ZOMBIE with a sword'''
['''DEFAULT''':DUMBDWARVES:2:1:AS_IS:'''SKELETON'''] «'''A SKELETON'''
['''AXEMAN''':DUMBDWARVES:3:1:AS_IS:'''SKELETON'''] «'''A SKELETON with an axe'''
<nowiki>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</nowiki>
humans 
[TILE_PAGE:PUNYHUMANS]
[FILE:Other_Graphics/humans.bmp]
[TILE_DIM:16:16]
[PAGE_DIM:1:4] 
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:HUMAN]
[DEFAULT:PUNYHUMANS:0:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
''' Notes can go here too.'''
[SWORDSMAN:PUNYHUMANS:0:1:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
['''RECRUIT''':PUNYHUMANS:0:2:AS_IS:'''ADVENTURER'''] «'''An ADVENTURER with no weapons'''
['''SWORDSMAN''':PUNYHUMANS:0:3:AS_IS:'''ADVENTURER'''] «'''An ADVENTURER with a sword'''
<nowiki>==============================</nowiki>
animals 
[TILE_PAGE:TASTYANIMALS]
[FILE:Other_Graphics/animals'''.bmp'''] «'''Pictures must be in .BMP format!'''
[TILE_DIM:16:16]
[PAGE_DIM:6:2] 
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:DOG]
[DEFAULT:TASTYANIMALS:0:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[CHILD:TASTYANIMALS:1:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[ZOMBIE:TASTYANIMALS:2:0:AS_IS:ZOMBIE] «'''This is another way to make zombies...'''
[SKELETON:TASTYANIMALS:3:0:AS_IS:SKELETON] «'''...or skeletons'''
['''TRAINED_HUNTER''':TASTYANIMALS:4:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT] «'''TRAINED_HUNTER profession only works with DOG'''
['''TRAINED_WAR''':TASTYANIMALS:5:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT] «'''TRAINED_WAR profession only works with DOG'''
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CAT]
[DEFAULT:TASTYANIMALS:0:1:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
</tt>
[[Image:Plac1d_graphics-set_helper.png]]

<tt>'''[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:DWARF]'''</tt>
The available creatures you can create graphics for can be found in any of the ''creature_??????.txt'' documents in ''"raw/objects"''.
*Use the [CREATURE:???????] tags for the correct use of spelling for the given species.
*Only creatures with a [SIZE:??] tag can have graphics applied to them. Insects, rodents, and birds don't have these tags.
<s>*Creatures with [AQUATIC] biome tag will not display graphics.
</s>
:The information on [AQUATIC] is either incorrect, or possibly only valid in some cases - I've been experimenting with symbolic graphics tiles and made a set for creature_large_riverlake (hadn't seen this). I have carp and tigerfish in my current map, and they both show up using the custom graphic. [[User:Shaja|Shaja]] 00:21, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
::You're right. I made the mistake using [CREATURE:WHALE] instead of [CREATURE'''_GRAPHICS''':WHALE]. Thanks for pointing that out- I was convinced fish couldn't have graphics. I just tinkered around, and it seems creature_large_ocean creatures will show up too. [[User:Plac1d|Plac1d]] 10:49, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
'''Professions:''' Profession listed in graphics_example.txt in "raw/graphics" is shared by CREATURE_GRAPHICS tags DWARF, HUMAN, GOBLIN, ELF, KOBOLD. Dwarves uses most of them. Humans and Goblins also uses many of those. Elves and Kobolds uses just a few. I don't know where a list is located or if even one has been created accounting the exact professions used by each race.

<tt>'''[CHILD:DUMBDWARVES:3:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]'''</tt>
Here's how I would find this tile:
{| border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5"
|-
| 0:0
| 1:0
| 2:0
| '''3:0'''
| 4:0
|-
| 0:1
| 1:1
| 2:1
| 3:1
| 4:1
|-
| 0:2
| 1:2
| 2:2
| 3:2
| 4:2
|-
| 0:3
| 1:3
| 2:3
| 3:3
| 4:3
|-
| 0:4
| 1:4
| 2:4
| 3:4
| 4:4
|}

:All champions look the same. Borders: My guess is that when a background color is too similar to that of the colors used by a character on top of it, the border helps to distinguish the two from another. Anyway, I hope this helps! [[User:Plac1d|Plac1d]] 07:39, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

==HOWTO use Mayday graphic tileset in v0.28.181.39.==
1) Unpack df_28_181_39e.zip and DFG8.zip into separate folders. Later on it'll be supposed that df_28_181_39e.zip is unpacked into \D\ folder, and DFG8.zip - into \M\ folder.

2) Copy the contents of \M\data\art\ folder into \D\data\art\, replacing the existing files.

Those files contain item and surroundings graphical tiles.

3) Open init.txt file in \D\data\init\.

Set [GRAPHICS:YES], [GRAPHICS_FONT:square_16x16.bmp] and [GRAPHICS_FULLFONT:square_16x16.bmp].

Now the game should be using the tile files we copied in the previous part.

Sidenote: you may also wish to play with [AUTOSAVE:], [AUTOBACKUP:], [SHOW_EMBARK_X:] and [SHOW_ALL_HISTORY_IN_DWARF_MODE:] keys.

4) Replace \D\raw\graphics\ folder with \M\raw\graphics\ folder.

That folder contains the tilesets for various creatures as well as the graphics_example.txt file, which holds the settings for the tilesets.

Ok, now we're done with graphics.

You may also wish to use the Mayday variant of control key layout.

To do so, open \D\data\init\interface.txt and replace the existing [CURSOR_UP_Z:] and [CURSOR_DOWN_Z:] keys with [CURSOR_UP_Z:DIVIDE] and [CURSOR_DOWN_Z:MULTIPLY], respectively.

That's it, now you're efficiently playing the same game you were before.

I found something that you had forgotten to mention. In the init file you may also want to change the [VARIED_GROUND_TILES:YES]to [VARIED_GROUND_TILES:NO]. This makes all the tiles the same instead of some tiles being from MayDay and some from the normal graphics[[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 14:51, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Graphics set repository

2008-08-10T18:51:15Z

Mission0: /* HOWTO use Mayday graphic tileset in v0.28.181.39. */

This would more accurately be called [[List of user graphics sets]], to match the [[List of user character sets]] page. The info about graphics sets can be merged into [[Tilesets]]. Also, it seems DR is the only one updated for the new version, does anyone care to test the others? Do they work, and if not, will they ever get updated? --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:19, 5 November 2007 (EST)

This is a message to the user "Duplex," who posted a cool little DR-style graphics update to the page: Could you please list your graphics_example.txt so I can know what dwarves are what? I'd love to implement this in the new version, unless DR publishes his work soon. Also, I think it'd be nice to have a little less boxiness to the current DR set, and was wondering if a simple dithering pass or something would make the icons appear less "boxy" and more smooth against a black background. Ideas? [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 14:49, 11 November 2007 (EST)

I've created and added [[Template:GraphicsSet]] to match the outline of [[List of user character sets]] page. I don't know what we should do with the outdated sets. Some of the links don't work and it just looks sloppy. Should it just be deleted? [[User:Plac1d|Plac1d]] 11:40, 23 November 2007 (EST)

== 12x12 Tileset ==
Go on, someone make a 10x12 or 12x12 tileset? That way people using the default tileset, or me with my 12x12 solid curses tileset, can enjoy pretty gfx too. My screen is too small for 16x16, though I'm tempted to give the 8x10 one a go! --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 11:32, 18 December 2007 (EST)
:Hmmm. Personally, I find that 16x16's pixel budget is already too tight for a proper "graphic" gfx set. Anything smaller would violate what I term first principle of icon design :Icons must be distinguishable (not just different!). Anything smaller, I think I would switch to partial symbolic means. e.g. have a distinct background image (maybe a dwarf head?) denoting the race and a foreground symbol (like a pick for miners) to denote profession. I would say that I am trully interested, but I have my hands tied up right now with 16x16 which will take a looong time to approach completion. No promises, but if I need a break from 16x16, I might do a "sample" set for 12x12 (e.g. just all the major profession groups) But if you really want one badly, why not try starting a new set yourself. It's fun! -- [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 21:32, 18 December 2007 (EST)
::ok, what I did is I took my WIP 16x16 and do a direct shrinking + sharpening. This is the result. [[Media:Sphr_dwarves_12_12.png|Sphr_dwarves_12_12.png]]. You will have to grab Veryinky's text file and modify the data there for 12x12 though. Feedback is welcome but I prob can't devote time to the 12x12 icons. The most I can do is use a semi-automated way of generating it from the 16x16 version. sorry about that. I will find time to extract out the text part and add somewhere to wiki so that we don't have to do some nasty rapidshare download (I always can't seem to download from it :( ) just for some text. Or you could just do your cut and paste directly over whatever bmp file you are using right now -- [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 21:45, 18 December 2007 (EST)
:Thanks Sphr, I've packaged it all together into an easy to install mod: [http://mkv25.net/showcase/df/sphr_mkv_12x12_graphics_v0.1.zip download (59KB)] (v0.1)
:It doesn't look bad, not at all. I'd argue 12x12 is plenty, we're spoilt with the number of pixels we have these days! Remember the first Command & Conquer? Animated infantry units had whopping 11x11 pixels. ... I look forward to your updates, my fort with only 7 dwarves doesn't give much opportunity for detail. [http://mkv25.net/showcase/df/sphr_12x12_test1.png Screenshot]. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]
::Sorry about the half-pink pixels. Thought that I got rid of those by using nearest neighbor when resizing. Hmm. yeah. It turned out better than I thought. I think it is relatively safe to say that at least the major profession groups are distinguishable. It remains to see how distinguishable the sub professions are. Guess we can only find out after we test with a much larger dwarf colony. -- [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 11:51, 19 December 2007 (EST)
:Updated the 12x12 version. Can be found [[User:Sphr/gfx_set#12x12|here]]. I've cleaned up the transparent pixels after shrinking, but I didn't test it. Feel free to try. -- [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 15:09, 21 December 2007 (EST)
:Thanks, those pixels look much sharper now. Have included it in v0.2 of the mod package: [[http://www.mkv25.net/showcase/df/sphr_mkv_12x12_graphics_v0.2.zip sphr_mkv_12x12_graphics_v0.2.zip]] (61.5KB)
== Text Data for manual install users ==

If the tileset is simple (1 image), it could be beneficial to follow PTTG's smart example of including the text data in the image page itself, i.e. the page you get to when you click on a wiki image created by something like: <nowiki>[[Image:PTTG16x16graph.png]]</nowiki> ) , so that users can just copy and paste the text data directly into raw/graphics. And given that the image (usually png) is available for saving, users don't have to download anything explicitly from any file hosting sites. I think it is definitely an alternative to consider esp when compared to file hosting services like rapidhshare (which I always have problem with), and although other file-hosting (esp those on personal sites) are fine, they may have stricter traffic controls.
-- [[User:Sphr|Sphr]] 04:14, 21 December 2007 (EST)

== graphics sets vs object tilesets ==
I was the one who renamed object tilesets to graphics sets when the wiki was migrated to the 3d version, and I'm starting to regret it. I propose renaming it back to 'object tilesets' and modifying all graphics sets links to point to that once again. [[User:Lord Nightmare|Lord Nightmare]] 17:18, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:Nah, it's fine the way it is for now. Because objects are not currently graphically supported yet, and only consist of living entities, it should rather be called 'creature tilesets'. I would wait until Toady adds '''"Core50, TILESET SUPPORT, (Future): Allow graphical tiles to be used for all game objects"''' before changing the name to anything. After that, there could be a multitude of tilesets such as 'object tilesets','creature tilesets','terrain tilesets' ect. 'Character tilesets' will be used for traditional ASCII. [[User:Plac1d|Plac1d]] 21:37, 8 March 2008 (EST)

== Questions: making your own set==
Could some one post some pointers to making your own set? I have a few questions: how do you know what tags are available to make tiles for? Does the graphics example that comes with the game include all possible race/class tags? What is the format of this file? I see for creatures it is [class:racepage:x:y:??:?Status (like undead/guard/not?)]

Is it possible to make a champion axedwarf graphic? Or will all champions of the same status look the same?

Do the characters have to have a shaded border around them? I notice most do.
[[User:Tulthix|Tulthix]] 10:48, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

:So here is a complete text document you would find in the "raw/graphics" folder for my new fake graphics set:<tt>

[DEFAULT:DUMBDWARVES:0:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT] 
[Profession:TILE_PAGE:X:Y:Color:Texture]

graphics_mygraphicsLOL «'''You'll be saving the text document as this name (graphics_mygraphicsLOL.txt) This name should match the folder name you will be using in "raw/graphics".''' 
[OBJECT:GRAPHICS]
<nowiki>------------------------------</nowiki>
below are dwarves «'''Feel free to add text anywhere outside brackets''' 
[TILE_PAGE:DUMBDWARVES] «'''This name doesn't have to match any creature name, folder name, or picture name'''
[FILE:mygraphicsLOL/sevendwarves.bmp] «'''Look at picture for file structure'''
[TILE_DIM:16:16] «'''Height:Width - Pixels per tile'''
[PAGE_DIM:5:2] «'''Width:Height - Tiles per picture''' 
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:DWARF] «'''You must use the correct use of spelling. See below'''
[DEFAULT:DUMBDWARVES:0:0:'''ADD_COLOR''':DEFAULT]
↑ '''PTTG's graphics set is an example how this is used'''
[STANDARD:DUMBDWARVES:1:0:'''AS_IS''':DEFAULT]
↑ '''But you will most likely want to use this to keep the colors used in the picture unchanged'''
[MINER:DUMBDWARVES:2:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
↓ '''This name matches the TILE_PAGE name I made for its appropriate picture, sevendwarves.bmp '''
[CHILD:'''DUMBDWARVES''':3:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[BABY:DUMBDWARVES:4:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
['''DEFAULT''':DUMBDWARVES:0:1:AS_IS:'''ZOMBIE'''] «'''A ZOMBIE'''
['''SWORDSMAN''':DUMBDWARVES:1:1:AS_IS:'''ZOMBIE'''] «'''A ZOMBIE with a sword'''
['''DEFAULT''':DUMBDWARVES:2:1:AS_IS:'''SKELETON'''] «'''A SKELETON'''
['''AXEMAN''':DUMBDWARVES:3:1:AS_IS:'''SKELETON'''] «'''A SKELETON with an axe'''
<nowiki>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</nowiki>
humans 
[TILE_PAGE:PUNYHUMANS]
[FILE:Other_Graphics/humans.bmp]
[TILE_DIM:16:16]
[PAGE_DIM:1:4] 
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:HUMAN]
[DEFAULT:PUNYHUMANS:0:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
''' Notes can go here too.'''
[SWORDSMAN:PUNYHUMANS:0:1:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
['''RECRUIT''':PUNYHUMANS:0:2:AS_IS:'''ADVENTURER'''] «'''An ADVENTURER with no weapons'''
['''SWORDSMAN''':PUNYHUMANS:0:3:AS_IS:'''ADVENTURER'''] «'''An ADVENTURER with a sword'''
<nowiki>==============================</nowiki>
animals 
[TILE_PAGE:TASTYANIMALS]
[FILE:Other_Graphics/animals'''.bmp'''] «'''Pictures must be in .BMP format!'''
[TILE_DIM:16:16]
[PAGE_DIM:6:2] 
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:DOG]
[DEFAULT:TASTYANIMALS:0:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[CHILD:TASTYANIMALS:1:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[ZOMBIE:TASTYANIMALS:2:0:AS_IS:ZOMBIE] «'''This is another way to make zombies...'''
[SKELETON:TASTYANIMALS:3:0:AS_IS:SKELETON] «'''...or skeletons'''
['''TRAINED_HUNTER''':TASTYANIMALS:4:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT] «'''TRAINED_HUNTER profession only works with DOG'''
['''TRAINED_WAR''':TASTYANIMALS:5:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT] «'''TRAINED_WAR profession only works with DOG'''
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CAT]
[DEFAULT:TASTYANIMALS:0:1:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
</tt>
[[Image:Plac1d_graphics-set_helper.png]]

<tt>'''[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:DWARF]'''</tt>
The available creatures you can create graphics for can be found in any of the ''creature_??????.txt'' documents in ''"raw/objects"''.
*Use the [CREATURE:???????] tags for the correct use of spelling for the given species.
*Only creatures with a [SIZE:??] tag can have graphics applied to them. Insects, rodents, and birds don't have these tags.
<s>*Creatures with [AQUATIC] biome tag will not display graphics.
</s>
:The information on [AQUATIC] is either incorrect, or possibly only valid in some cases - I've been experimenting with symbolic graphics tiles and made a set for creature_large_riverlake (hadn't seen this). I have carp and tigerfish in my current map, and they both show up using the custom graphic. [[User:Shaja|Shaja]] 00:21, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
::You're right. I made the mistake using [CREATURE:WHALE] instead of [CREATURE'''_GRAPHICS''':WHALE]. Thanks for pointing that out- I was convinced fish couldn't have graphics. I just tinkered around, and it seems creature_large_ocean creatures will show up too. [[User:Plac1d|Plac1d]] 10:49, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
'''Professions:''' Profession listed in graphics_example.txt in "raw/graphics" is shared by CREATURE_GRAPHICS tags DWARF, HUMAN, GOBLIN, ELF, KOBOLD. Dwarves uses most of them. Humans and Goblins also uses many of those. Elves and Kobolds uses just a few. I don't know where a list is located or if even one has been created accounting the exact professions used by each race.

<tt>'''[CHILD:DUMBDWARVES:3:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]'''</tt>
Here's how I would find this tile:
{| border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5"
|-
| 0:0
| 1:0
| 2:0
| '''3:0'''
| 4:0
|-
| 0:1
| 1:1
| 2:1
| 3:1
| 4:1
|-
| 0:2
| 1:2
| 2:2
| 3:2
| 4:2
|-
| 0:3
| 1:3
| 2:3
| 3:3
| 4:3
|-
| 0:4
| 1:4
| 2:4
| 3:4
| 4:4
|}

:All champions look the same. Borders: My guess is that when a background color is too similar to that of the colors used by a character on top of it, the border helps to distinguish the two from another. Anyway, I hope this helps! [[User:Plac1d|Plac1d]] 07:39, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

==HOWTO use Mayday graphic tileset in v0.28.181.39.==
1) Unpack df_28_181_39e.zip and DFG8.zip into separate folders. Later on it'll be supposed that df_28_181_39e.zip is unpacked into \D\ folder, and DFG8.zip - into \M\ folder.

2) Copy the contents of \M\data\art\ folder into \D\data\art\, replacing the existing files.

Those files contain item and surroundings graphical tiles.

3) Open init.txt file in \D\data\init\.

Set [GRAPHICS:YES], [GRAPHICS_FONT:square_16x16.bmp] and [GRAPHICS_FULLFONT:square_16x16.bmp].

Now the game should be using the tile files we copied in the previous part.

Sidenote: you may also wish to play with [AUTOSAVE:], [AUTOBACKUP:], [SHOW_EMBARK_X:] and [SHOW_ALL_HISTORY_IN_DWARF_MODE:] keys.

4) Replace \D\raw\graphics\ folder with \M\raw\graphics\ folder.

That folder contains the tilesets for various creatures as well as the graphics_example.txt file, which holds the settings for the tilesets.

Ok, now we're done with graphics.

You may also wish to use the Mayday variant of control key layout.

To do so, open \D\data\init\interface.txt and replace the existing [CURSOR_UP_Z:] and [CURSOR_DOWN_Z:] keys with [CURSOR_UP_Z:DIVIDE] and [CURSOR_DOWN_Z:MULTIPLY], respectively.

That's it, now you're efficiently playing the same game you were before.

I found something that you had forgotten to mention. In the init file you may also want to change the [VARIED_GROUND_TILES:YES]to no. This makes all the tiles the same instead of some tiles being from MayDay and some from the normal graphics[[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 14:51, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Farming

2008-08-04T15:07:22Z

Mission0: /* Red crops */

== Farming in Winter ==

It appears that farm plots now have a menu for farming in the winter. Has anyone done this yet? --[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 00:42, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:Sounds like winter farming works fine. It's probably part of the general streamlining of temperature and whatnot (why would a tropical winter be worse than a glacial summer, underground?) --Doomclown

::Spider Webs do not seem to depend on being near the water or farms now. Most I have seen appeared in a narrow valley on the outside of the mountain. --Silveron

:::Winter farming is working fine, I've farmed Plump helmets whole winter. No starved dwarves for me! --[[User:UltimaPhantom|UltimaPhantom]] 15:25, 8 November 2007 (EST)

== Farming aboveground issue ==

You're allowed to build aboveground farm plots on areas where you can't actually plant seeds, but it doesn't tell you this. Basically you have to make sure farm plots outdoors are built on biomes that have at least some vegetation (shrubs, grass doesn't count) in order for your dwarves to actually plant the seeds you set. Trying to farm on a mountain biome or any other that is listed with "Other Vegetation: None" will end up with the plot just being ignored. And there are now often multiple biomes in any given fortress map, as seen on the site selection menu when you start a fort. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 21:23, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:Farming in the winter is handy now, but does any one know what it means when the plant type in the farm (when you pick out what yave our going to grow) is red? It won't let me grow it! --Comment by [[User:Rock n Rat|Rock n Rat]] and copy-edited by [[User:Savok|Savok]] due to its high level of unreadability

::When the name is red, that means that, for whatever reason, that crop cannot be planted at that time. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:53, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

::This is most likely because it is late winter, and any seeds planted at that point won't have time to grow by the end of the year. It doesn't take into account the fact that the crops may still be growable in the spring as it does with the other seasons; something about the new year throws it off. --[[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 10:06, 18 November 2007 (EST)

== Mixed Plots ==

The following paragraph contradicts itself a couple times, which is the correct behavior? <blockquote>
The farm plot should be either entirely above ground or entirely subterranean. A mixed-class farm plot will allow you to choose any crop for planting, but the chosen crop will be planted only on tiles capable of growing it. Worse, planters will not skip over the infertile tiles, leaving the rest of the plot fallow whether it can support the crop or not.</blockquote>[[User:Amstrad|Amstrad]] 17:07, 10 November 2007 (EST)

:I think what it means is that the planter will plant until he reaches a tile incapable of growing, the stop completely. Let's say you have a 1x8 plot, and tile 3 is not capable of growing the crop. Tiles 1 and 2 will be planted, but the farmer will stop at 3. He will not skip over it and continue planting tiles 4-8. It is not contradictory, but should be reworded. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 13:48, 18 November 2007 (EST)

::What the writer mean by "mixed plot" is if you build a plot underground and open the roof in some place. The area(s) where you don't have roofing anymore will be considered as above ground, and the rest will still be considered by the game to be underground. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 18:09, 18 November 2007 (EST)

== Food Hauling caveat ==

It was suggested that stone and wood hauling be turned off during planting season to prevent starvation. It seems more prudent to me that in case of eminent starvation to turn off FOOD HAULING so all the hungry dwarves can swarm the previously tasked foods. Then turn it back on and let them continue taking their time getting it to where it needs to be. Is this a bad idea? ~~

== Flowchart ==

That's got to be the most complicated possible way to present that information, which is already covered in a much clearer table on the [[crops]] page. It would also be horribly intimidating to the newbies. No offense to whoever took the time to make this monstrosity, but I think it should be axed, or at the least moved to the more relevant crops page. [[User:Mzbundifund|Mzbundifund]] 23:25, 28 November 2007 (CST)

:You say it like Dwarf Fortress itself is not horribly intimidating. No offense taken, but, then again, farming is one of the most complicated aspects of the game and I spent quite some time trying to wrap my mind around it's quirks.

:I made this illustration to help me plan workshops chaining, optimize hauling and quickly evaluate gathered shrubs. Tabular data on the [[Crops]] page serves great as a reference, but not so much as an aid in designing processes. Besides, some people like me comprehend such visual form of information easier.
:This diagram is already linked on [[Crops]] page, and if people deem that image describing in detail farming workflow doesn't belong to [[Farming]] page, so be it. [[User:Nophotoavailable|Nophotoavailable]] 02:49, 29 November 2007 (EST)

:It's seems a great flowchart to me, especially the way it's linked in the corner so it doesn't dominate the page. Well done for creating it. [[User:Djp|Djp]] 05:46, 29 November 2007 (EST)

::I appreciate the flowchart, and find it more useful for contemplating the system-as-a-whole than the table on Crops. Table's good for detail, bad for seeing relationships & alternatives, like "What are all the crops that I can use to make fabric?". [[User:Kidinnu|Kidinnu]] 08:54, 29 November 2007 (EST)

::Hah, I seem to be in the minority, if indeed there's even one other person who agrees with me. Fair enough. [[User:Mzbundifund|Mzbundifund]] 15:38, 28 November 2007 (CST)

== Re-Irrigation ==

I noticed that my unused farms, after a time, will show "No seeds available for this location". There doesn't seem to be anything on this wiki to talk about this. I later found out (by loo{{K|k}ing around}) that this is because the tiles underneath the plot were no longer muddy. Shouldn't there be a section to warn players that even active farms have some de-muddified tiles (farmers no longer walk on them, to muddify them), that should periodically be irrigated? --[[User:Akel Desyn|Akel Desyn]] 10:24, 3 December 2007 (EST)

:Ooh, that happens? That's really important. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least two important things that need revision.
:However, I use soil for farming (so far), so I shouldn't be the one to fix them. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:37, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

== Red crops ==

We should try to figure out once and for all what the reddened crops mean. The two most popular explanations I see floating around are either that there are not enough days left in the season to grow it and that the farm is not fertile enough. My testing has shown that it is neither. In late autumn (13 Timber, not enough time to grow anything) cave wheat and pig tails red out, while quarry bushes do not. Quarry bushes can't be grown in winter either, so something weird is going on. It's not fertility either, because the plots that have had nothing grown on them redden out at exactly the same time as the ones constantly used. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:05, 27 December 2007 (EST)

:I remember reading somewhere that farmers have to have experience with a crop dying from being planted too late in a season before they know when it's too late to plant it. Sounds implausible, but I wouldn't put it past Toady to implement it that way. Had your farmers ever planted quarry bushes "too late" before your test?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:28, 28 December 2007 (EST)

:I've never planted quarry bushes at that fortress. Now that I think of it, I don't think I had any rock nuts at all. That's probably it. Crops only redden out if you have the seeds for them. I'll start a test fortress with no pig tails or something and see if I can confirm this. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 09:21, 28 December 2007 (EST)

::I've confirmed this. Crops red out if there are not enough days left in the season, but do NOT red out if you have no seeds. In my test, I brought rock nuts and plump helmet spawn only. In late summer, sweet pods did not redden out. In late autumn, only quarry bushes reddened out. However, I noticed another oddity. Quarry bushed reddened out when there were less than 25 days left until winter, even though they take 41 days to grow! I need to test whether they will wilt when planted between 41 and 25 days left. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 10:28, 28 December 2007 (EST)

::This is strange. It reddened out after I selected it and let it run for a game day (there were 39 days left in the season). Maybe the trigger for reddening is trying to plant it, not having seeds. This definitely needs more testing. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 10:41, 28 December 2007 (EST)

:::Plants will red out if there is not enough time for them to grow in this season ''and'' they can't be grown in the next season (Otherwise they are just transferred to the next season). ''Dark'' red means there are still seeds on the plot of that plant. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:38, 4 March 2008 (EST)

::::I've experienced something completely wierd. My pump helmets have red out. I am in a Scorching environment and the field had just been made. It always happens towards the end of Winter as well. Currently in-game it's the 17th obsidian. It turned back to normal the first day of spring.[[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 03:29, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

== Fertilization ==

So you can choose to fertilise your plots with potash. How long does this last? How much more crop does a fertilised plot produce and if I fertilise more than once in short succesion, does it produce even more? [[User:Robje|Robje]] 17:33, 21 January 2008 (EST)
And what does ''seas fert'' option mean?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 07:48, 7 February 2008 (EST)

:seas fert - seasonal fertilization? - auto fertilize every season?
:: It seems so. The first time I saw it, I thought it meant fertilize with seaweeds (LOL).--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:08, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

I cant fertilize my indoor clay loam plot (probably not needed) - will now check silt. Muddy rock seems to work? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:03, 20 February 2008 (EST)

:IIRC, adds +3 to crop yield. I may be wrong. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:06, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Ow. The Ghost of the English Language has been offended once more. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:37, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

== Greenhouse ==

To my experience, the ceiling on a "greenhouse" can be made out of anything, my rock salt greenhouses work just fine. [[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 20:03, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

:This is accurate. Floors of any variety let in light, even though dozens of levels of flooring. You can have an 'above ground' farm hundreds of feet underground.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 13:36, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

::IIRC, most (all?) floors do not let in light, but they do let in abovegroundness. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:37, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

The paragraph on chanelling+roof to build a greenhouse seems off base. If you're going to build a roof, you may as well build walls around your field on high ground. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:08, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Farming

2008-08-04T07:29:56Z

Mission0: /* Red crops */

== Farming in Winter ==

It appears that farm plots now have a menu for farming in the winter. Has anyone done this yet? --[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 00:42, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:Sounds like winter farming works fine. It's probably part of the general streamlining of temperature and whatnot (why would a tropical winter be worse than a glacial summer, underground?) --Doomclown

::Spider Webs do not seem to depend on being near the water or farms now. Most I have seen appeared in a narrow valley on the outside of the mountain. --Silveron

:::Winter farming is working fine, I've farmed Plump helmets whole winter. No starved dwarves for me! --[[User:UltimaPhantom|UltimaPhantom]] 15:25, 8 November 2007 (EST)

== Farming aboveground issue ==

You're allowed to build aboveground farm plots on areas where you can't actually plant seeds, but it doesn't tell you this. Basically you have to make sure farm plots outdoors are built on biomes that have at least some vegetation (shrubs, grass doesn't count) in order for your dwarves to actually plant the seeds you set. Trying to farm on a mountain biome or any other that is listed with "Other Vegetation: None" will end up with the plot just being ignored. And there are now often multiple biomes in any given fortress map, as seen on the site selection menu when you start a fort. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 21:23, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:Farming in the winter is handy now, but does any one know what it means when the plant type in the farm (when you pick out what yave our going to grow) is red? It won't let me grow it! --Comment by [[User:Rock n Rat|Rock n Rat]] and copy-edited by [[User:Savok|Savok]] due to its high level of unreadability

::When the name is red, that means that, for whatever reason, that crop cannot be planted at that time. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:53, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

::This is most likely because it is late winter, and any seeds planted at that point won't have time to grow by the end of the year. It doesn't take into account the fact that the crops may still be growable in the spring as it does with the other seasons; something about the new year throws it off. --[[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 10:06, 18 November 2007 (EST)

== Mixed Plots ==

The following paragraph contradicts itself a couple times, which is the correct behavior? <blockquote>
The farm plot should be either entirely above ground or entirely subterranean. A mixed-class farm plot will allow you to choose any crop for planting, but the chosen crop will be planted only on tiles capable of growing it. Worse, planters will not skip over the infertile tiles, leaving the rest of the plot fallow whether it can support the crop or not.</blockquote>[[User:Amstrad|Amstrad]] 17:07, 10 November 2007 (EST)

:I think what it means is that the planter will plant until he reaches a tile incapable of growing, the stop completely. Let's say you have a 1x8 plot, and tile 3 is not capable of growing the crop. Tiles 1 and 2 will be planted, but the farmer will stop at 3. He will not skip over it and continue planting tiles 4-8. It is not contradictory, but should be reworded. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 13:48, 18 November 2007 (EST)

::What the writer mean by "mixed plot" is if you build a plot underground and open the roof in some place. The area(s) where you don't have roofing anymore will be considered as above ground, and the rest will still be considered by the game to be underground. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 18:09, 18 November 2007 (EST)

== Food Hauling caveat ==

It was suggested that stone and wood hauling be turned off during planting season to prevent starvation. It seems more prudent to me that in case of eminent starvation to turn off FOOD HAULING so all the hungry dwarves can swarm the previously tasked foods. Then turn it back on and let them continue taking their time getting it to where it needs to be. Is this a bad idea? ~~

== Flowchart ==

That's got to be the most complicated possible way to present that information, which is already covered in a much clearer table on the [[crops]] page. It would also be horribly intimidating to the newbies. No offense to whoever took the time to make this monstrosity, but I think it should be axed, or at the least moved to the more relevant crops page. [[User:Mzbundifund|Mzbundifund]] 23:25, 28 November 2007 (CST)

:You say it like Dwarf Fortress itself is not horribly intimidating. No offense taken, but, then again, farming is one of the most complicated aspects of the game and I spent quite some time trying to wrap my mind around it's quirks.

:I made this illustration to help me plan workshops chaining, optimize hauling and quickly evaluate gathered shrubs. Tabular data on the [[Crops]] page serves great as a reference, but not so much as an aid in designing processes. Besides, some people like me comprehend such visual form of information easier.
:This diagram is already linked on [[Crops]] page, and if people deem that image describing in detail farming workflow doesn't belong to [[Farming]] page, so be it. [[User:Nophotoavailable|Nophotoavailable]] 02:49, 29 November 2007 (EST)

:It's seems a great flowchart to me, especially the way it's linked in the corner so it doesn't dominate the page. Well done for creating it. [[User:Djp|Djp]] 05:46, 29 November 2007 (EST)

::I appreciate the flowchart, and find it more useful for contemplating the system-as-a-whole than the table on Crops. Table's good for detail, bad for seeing relationships & alternatives, like "What are all the crops that I can use to make fabric?". [[User:Kidinnu|Kidinnu]] 08:54, 29 November 2007 (EST)

::Hah, I seem to be in the minority, if indeed there's even one other person who agrees with me. Fair enough. [[User:Mzbundifund|Mzbundifund]] 15:38, 28 November 2007 (CST)

== Re-Irrigation ==

I noticed that my unused farms, after a time, will show "No seeds available for this location". There doesn't seem to be anything on this wiki to talk about this. I later found out (by loo{{K|k}ing around}) that this is because the tiles underneath the plot were no longer muddy. Shouldn't there be a section to warn players that even active farms have some de-muddified tiles (farmers no longer walk on them, to muddify them), that should periodically be irrigated? --[[User:Akel Desyn|Akel Desyn]] 10:24, 3 December 2007 (EST)

:Ooh, that happens? That's really important. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least two important things that need revision.
:However, I use soil for farming (so far), so I shouldn't be the one to fix them. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:37, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

== Red crops ==

We should try to figure out once and for all what the reddened crops mean. The two most popular explanations I see floating around are either that there are not enough days left in the season to grow it and that the farm is not fertile enough. My testing has shown that it is neither. In late autumn (13 Timber, not enough time to grow anything) cave wheat and pig tails red out, while quarry bushes do not. Quarry bushes can't be grown in winter either, so something weird is going on. It's not fertility either, because the plots that have had nothing grown on them redden out at exactly the same time as the ones constantly used. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:05, 27 December 2007 (EST)

:I remember reading somewhere that farmers have to have experience with a crop dying from being planted too late in a season before they know when it's too late to plant it. Sounds implausible, but I wouldn't put it past Toady to implement it that way. Had your farmers ever planted quarry bushes "too late" before your test?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:28, 28 December 2007 (EST)

:I've never planted quarry bushes at that fortress. Now that I think of it, I don't think I had any rock nuts at all. That's probably it. Crops only redden out if you have the seeds for them. I'll start a test fortress with no pig tails or something and see if I can confirm this. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 09:21, 28 December 2007 (EST)

::I've confirmed this. Crops red out if there are not enough days left in the season, but do NOT red out if you have no seeds. In my test, I brought rock nuts and plump helmet spawn only. In late summer, sweet pods did not redden out. In late autumn, only quarry bushes reddened out. However, I noticed another oddity. Quarry bushed reddened out when there were less than 25 days left until winter, even though they take 41 days to grow! I need to test whether they will wilt when planted between 41 and 25 days left. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 10:28, 28 December 2007 (EST)

::This is strange. It reddened out after I selected it and let it run for a game day (there were 39 days left in the season). Maybe the trigger for reddening is trying to plant it, not having seeds. This definitely needs more testing. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 10:41, 28 December 2007 (EST)

:::Plants will red out if there is not enough time for them to grow in this season ''and'' they can't be grown in the next season (Otherwise they are just transferred to the next season). ''Dark'' red means there are still seeds on the plot of that plant. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:38, 4 March 2008 (EST)

::::I've experienced something completely wierd. My pump helmets have red out. I am in a Scorching environment and the field had just been made. It always happens towards the end of Winter as well. Currently in-game it's the 17th obsidian. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 03:29, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

== Fertilization ==

So you can choose to fertilise your plots with potash. How long does this last? How much more crop does a fertilised plot produce and if I fertilise more than once in short succesion, does it produce even more? [[User:Robje|Robje]] 17:33, 21 January 2008 (EST)
And what does ''seas fert'' option mean?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 07:48, 7 February 2008 (EST)

:seas fert - seasonal fertilization? - auto fertilize every season?
:: It seems so. The first time I saw it, I thought it meant fertilize with seaweeds (LOL).--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:08, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

I cant fertilize my indoor clay loam plot (probably not needed) - will now check silt. Muddy rock seems to work? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:03, 20 February 2008 (EST)

:IIRC, adds +3 to crop yield. I may be wrong. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:06, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Ow. The Ghost of the English Language has been offended once more. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:37, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

== Greenhouse ==

To my experience, the ceiling on a "greenhouse" can be made out of anything, my rock salt greenhouses work just fine. [[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 20:03, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

:This is accurate. Floors of any variety let in light, even though dozens of levels of flooring. You can have an 'above ground' farm hundreds of feet underground.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 13:36, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

::IIRC, most (all?) floors do not let in light, but they do let in abovegroundness. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:37, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

The paragraph on chanelling+roof to build a greenhouse seems off base. If you're going to build a roof, you may as well build walls around your field on high ground. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:08, 4 July 2008 (EDT)