Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

User:Mjo625

2009-12-21T02:45:32Z

Mjo625: Blanked the page

User:Mjo625

2009-12-21T02:42:44Z

Mjo625: Created page with 'I'm back at my parents place for the holidays, and I'm bored out of my mind so I thought I'd give an AAR a try. I'm still fairly new to the game and I figure the best way to lear…'

I'm back at my parents place for the holidays, and I'm bored out of my mind so I thought I'd give an AAR a try. I'm still fairly new to the game and I figure the best way to learn is to let people see what I'm doing and comment/criticize it. So by all means, feel free to do so throughout.

I'll be playing as Sweden in vanilla Vic: Revolutions v. 2.01 (I actually don't know if this is the most up to date patch, it's what I got when I bought the game about 6 months ago), Hard/Aggressive.

Goals:
-#1 nation, not just overall but individually in each of Prestige, Industry and Military
-Making one of my dominions into the #2 nation, this will not be the UK.

What I will not do:

-Unify Scandinavia. Sweden has much better political parties than Scandinavia. Besides, Denmark is more valuable as a tech trading partner than as part of my nation.

-Major land trading. There are 6 provinces I will trade to obtain, 1 from Russia, 1 from France, 3 from the UK. After that, no more trading to obtain land. I will trade for colonial buildings though, although hopefully not too much. I may (haven't really decided yet) trade away land for cash, techs, simply to get rid of provinces I don't want, or to strengthen my allies.

-Other major exploits. One exploit I will use is the mild version of "Immigration Plan C," which is where I conquer pieces of China, convert POPs into craftsmen so they migrate to my major industrial centres. But I really don't consider that an exploit. They're my POPs, my soldiers died to get them, I can do what I want with them. There will be a little sneakiness regarding colonial buildings, but its not a known exploit, so I prefer to think of it as "creative." I'll let you guys decide how exploity it is.

So, Let's Begin:

Table of Contents:

Jan 1, 1836:

I set voting rights to suffrage and research Practical Steam Engine, and give my military their marching orders.

Budget:
P Tax 20%
M Tax 50%
R Tax 100%

Education: Max
Crime: 50% +$0.1
Social: Min for state capitalism
Defence: Max

Army: Max
Navy: Min

Tariffs: Max for Protectionism

Trade:
Buy

Feb 18: My army has arrived off the coast of Haiti, and war is declared. I also have the goods to promote the large farmer pop in Stockholm to Clerks. This causes all the smaller craftsmen and clerk pops to merge with each other, So I can keep the Steel factory full of the biggest groups, 5 small groups in the Ammo factory and the gun factory sits open but empty.

Later, the large farmer pop in Goteborg is also promoted to Clerks, triggering merging there. and the large farmer pop in Malmo to Clergy. I'm now getting 1.18 RP per month, but I'm $7900 in debt.

June 16: Haiti is annexed and my troops are loaded back on the boats to head for the coast of Johor. A farmer pop in Christiana is split, with the smaller group becoming Soldiers. $9,500 in debt, losing $3.5 per day.

Aug. 15, My troops arrive off the coast of Johor and war is declared.

Around Dec. 1, by defecit is gone, somehow. I'm earning about $1 per day.

Jan 1, 1837: Practical Steam Engine is finsihed and I begin Mechanical Production.

Jan 2: Johor is annexed. Army Maintenance is reduced to min for a day to bring my troop levels down, then maxed out again to speed up the manpower gain. The Dra is split off to guard Johor against rebels, and the Inf and Inf-G brought back to Haiti.

Mar. 9: I have the manpower to recruit 4 Cav-Hs. $11,700 in debt.

Jul. 25: War is declared on Venezuela. I was very careful about the timing, this allows my Infs to arrive in Maracaibo on Aug. 9, the same day my Cav-Hs will be ready, so they can immediately be loaded onto my limited Clipper Transports. On Jul. 26, Clausewitzian theory takes effect, and really hurts my income with my now fully re-inforced Infs. This will get much worse when I get my Cav-Hs. Hopefully I can recover before I'm bankrupt.

Aug 9: My Cav-Hs arrive and my defecit is $10.

Sept 26: No battles yet, but soon.

***Screenshot0002

When that Cav attacks my Infs, it has 15% to my Infs 82%. The battle is won on Oct. 24. They're sending an Inf to attack the same province, and I have Cav-Hs in an undefended Caracas. The Venezuelan Cav attempts to go back to Caracas, but its avoidng my units in Valencia so it has 2 provinces to get through first, and I attempt to cut them off.

***Screenshot0003

The enemy Cav gets to the province first, but they only have 4 morale so they're quickly forced to retreat to Barinas. The Venezuelan Inf is also retreating to Barinas. Both have very low morale. My Infs have finished liberating Merida and head to Barinas to keep them from going anywhere else.

Success! The enemy is retreating to soon to be encircled Barquisimeto.

Jan 1, 1838: Mechaical Production researched, Idealism begun.

Also:

***Screenshot0004

Feb 1: The Venezuelan military is no more. I liberate the two provinces my units are in, and offer terms. Maracaibo and Venezuela becomes my sattelite. They accpet on Feb 19. Also I finally have positive prestige again, so I trade Mechanical Production to Denamark for Experimental Railroad and $900. Debt is $12,400. Army Maintenance minned for a day, then maxed again.

My Infs are left in Venezuela to let attrition bring down their maintenance costs even further, while my Cavs are brought 2 at a time to Johor as the staging area for the next war. Hopefully I'll be able to comission a new transport soon.

Sep. 23: My troops are finally in position and I declare war on China. My first Cav-H unit is deployed to Guangzhou. I pick up the next from Johor and drop it in Taiwan. After Guangzhou and the adjacent Shaozhou are liberated the 1st unit is back on the boats and dropped 4 provinces over in Fuzhou. When Taiwan is liberated, the 2nd group is picked up and dropped way up north in Jinan.

Meanwhile, Idealism is finsihed and I begin Medicine.

Guangzhou and Shaozhou have both already taken up arms against me. But I'm nowhere near them.

***Screenshot0005

After the next province in the south is liberated, my 2nd Cav unit is brought up north to Tangshan (The province with a Chinese unit in it in the screenshot. That unit has moved on now though). Jinan is liberated and the unit there is moved to Tianjin, attacking a lone Chinese irregular there. I begin to see the Chinese hordes arrive near the provinces I liberated in the south, and Guangzhou is retaken. Of course, I'm in the north now, and have very little resistance.

As Tangshan and Tianjin are liberated, I send both units to attack Beijing. It's only defended by one Cav regular and one irregular. As the battle is won, Shaozhou is lost. When Beijing is liberated, I offer peace. Humiliation, War Idemnities, Jinan and Fuzhou. This costs 180-something% to demand, while I have 30-something% war score. They accept.

Has anyone else noticed that China tends to accept peace way too easily? Anyway, these two new provinces are filled with aristocrats, making aristocrats the 2nd largest demographic in Sweden. Of course, they'll be taxed to death, giving me a $50 surplus. Both RGOs are expanded as well. Right after, I get a "Farmers demand compensation" event, and I pay them off, bringing my total debt to $20,500 on May 23.

My Cavs are brought one by one back to Haiti.

July 13: Neokantian Idealism gives me 150 prestige, total 170. I'm now 2nd, only 5 behind USA.

Disaster strikes on Oct 1, as my Cavs has been parked in Jinan awaiting pickup by my transports, when 3 aristocrat groups there rebelled one after another. With nowhere to retreat, my Cavs were annihilated. Oh well, these things happen. I commission 4 new ones to replace the 2 I lost. I'm finally able to get more transports as well.

Jan 1, 1840: Medicine is finished, Associationism begun.

June 20: My new units are all ready and USA is at war with Mexico. I see an opportunity. I also trade Mechanized Mining and Practical Steam Engine to Venezuela for Strategic Mobility.

July 19: I'm in position and I declare colonial war on Liberia. USA joins in and immediately mobilizes. Poor Mexico, I'll be long gone before they can use their reserves against me. Anyway, I deploy one Cav unit to Liberia's non-capital province, and the others to some of USA's claims buildings along the Pacific coast.

Oct 16: Liberia is annexed, and I've got 4 of the 7 USA claims buildings I have access to. I've been sending a few diplomats to the UK to improve relations with them as well.

Nov. 6: Chinese war indemnities have been very erratic, anywhere between $50 and $5000, but I'm finally out of debt.

Nov. 12: I trade the 2 claims in BC to the UK for the Spokane claim and $1100. I claim Washington, UK claims BC

Dec. 2: I steal the last of the USA's claim buildings, I offer the now claimed Spokane back to the UK for 5 claims buildings in Idaho, Oregon and Northwest Territories and $20,600. I claim Idaho and Oregon, and order the goods to build a claim in the last province without a claim in NWT (UK still has one claim there).

Jan 1, 1841: Associationism is finished, Empiricism begun. I also give Seattle and Murray to France for $1000.

Jan 9: Boise, Pocatello and Strategic Mobility to France for Libreville (West Africa) and $1100. I build a naval base in Libreville. All of Oregon plus Freedom of Trade, Mech. Production and Strategic Mobility to Russia for Tornio and $800 (I had a "traitor executed" event a while ago giving me a hit on my relations with Russia, which I had been otherwise ignoring, that's why that one province was so expensive). I offer a white peace to USA but they reject it. That's fine, they won't come after me while Mexico is keeping them busy, I know the odds of them accepting a white peace will go way up given enough time without any hostilities. But good luck getting all your cores, USA:

****Screenshot0006

The one I gave to the UK will probably go back to USA in the 49th parallel treaty. Russia will probably give their chunk up to somebody else in the Crimean. I bet the USA will eventually declare war on whoever has those. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Anyway, with all this money I grant good healthcare and low unemployment subsidies.

Elsewhere, the UK is STILL at war with Panjab, and that'll go one for a while longer as Panjab has three UK provinces occupied and all its own are secure. Due to this, the opium war hasn't started yet.

Egypt has made a decent sized push into the Ottoman Empire, but of course that won't last.

I have to wait a while for another diplomatic action, but on Apr. 13, I declare war on Morocco. So much for my high prestige. I also notice I have enough money to grant low pension funds, and do so.

Aug 15: USA offers me a white peace, and I accept. I also grant the last 2 reforms I'll make for a long time, Free Press and Socialist Only unions, and build a forts in Stockholm and Tornio to eventually garrison against Russia. Of course I have no troops in either province right now.

Jan 1, 1842: Empiricism finished, Positivism begun.

During April, I build a few railroads, and with bad timing, my war indemnities from China stop on Apr. 30. I just notice that even funding my social reforms at minimum is putting me in a defecit. It's small, but I do have a $200 debt that I can't pay off right away, and my social reforms don't count when I have a debt. Can't be helped for now.

May 13: I finish liberating all of Morocco's provinces. The war was boring, with their low morale irregulars quickly fleeing from my Cav-Hs. I ask for all their provinces, except their capital. They reject the first 2 offers, but accept on May 27. Lowering my army maintenance takes care of my defecit. A quick trade with the UK of Tafersit for their remaining colony in the Northwest Territories and $600 elminates my debt as well.

Another trade giving me Singapore, Malacca, Yeh, Battleship Column Doctrine and some cash in exchange for Taza, Tetuan, Oujda and El-Rarbi finishes off any trading I'll do to acquire claimed land, eliminates my border with France, and makes the revolters in Oujda not my problem.

Aug. 6: I declare war on Annam, and of course Cambodia joins in.

Jan 1, 1843: Positivism finished (now 1.3 RP per month), Phenomenalism begun.

Mar. 23: Another boring war over, I ask for everything except for the capitals, Cambodia and Hue, and Kiansin. Kiansin is a landlocked province, now surrounded by me, Luang Prabang and China. This is so that when France comes knocking on Annam's door, they won't be able to occupy it, and won't be able to take any territory.

On May 1, its Burma's turn. They're taken down to their capital on Dec. 21. Because I acquired Yeh, no one except Siam and I are able to get into their capital. I notice that the opium war has begun. I didn't get an announcement that Panjab had been annexed, so checking it out, they held out long enough to get a white peace with the UK. Good for them.

Jan 1, 1845: Phenomenalism finished, Romanticism begun.

Jan 10: My trade post in the Northwest Territories is finished, and I claim the colony. The UK has buildings under construction or completed in every province in Alberta and Manitoba, but Saskatechewan is vacant and I start a building in its northern province.

Apr. 30: My peace treaty with China expires, but the UK has occupied a province I want, so I wait and watch.

May 14: 5 of the UK's colonial buildings in Alberta are complete, so I trade 3 of the provicnces in NWT for 4 of the buildings, Steamers and $2600.

Jan 1, 1845: Romanticism finished, Functionalism begun. I see that China has 15 units in Dibrugath, the UK province that borders them in the southwest. This includes 6 of their regular units. They could be cut off by occupying Dali, which is defended by a single irregular, so I put one of my Cavs next to it and send it to the UK as an expeditionary force on Jan 19.

I've done this before, and I can still give orders to the unit. The UK may try to give it other orders, but this can be prevented by repeteadly giving it the orders I want. Dali is liberated by the UK thanks to my unit, but China stil has a massive force in Dibrugath. The UK tries to order my unit to attack it, but I cancel that order. Most of China's force appears to be marching further west. A single unit attacks me in Dali, but it's sent back.

May 2: All but a single irregular has left Dibrugath, and must be in Gauhati. Finally I attack Dibrugath.

Dibrugath is retaken by the UK, but even with my unit there I can't see the units in Gauhati to determine numbers and morale because I don't have a land border with it. But Gauhati is yellow.

But it's a moot point as on June 26, the opium war ends, and my own war with China begins. I take back my unit and send it to Dali again. I can't reinforce it, but thankfully it has a -attrition general and is nearly at full strength. Meanwhile one of my other units is sent to Guangzhou, the other to take China's colonial buildings.

Dali is liberated, and the Chinese units are trapped in UK land. They seem unwilling to advance into my Burmese land, but that's nearly completely rebel controlled anyway. I can't attack the units in the UK, and they're spread out in the UK, not willing to move. So we're at an impasse there. Guangzhou is liberated and the unit shipped up to Andong.

The 2nd colonial building is stolen, and my unit is sailed to take Tangshan. Rebels have nearly cut off any retreat possibility I had in Dali, so I move my unit back into my own land there to attack the rebels.

I can only get 25% efficiency on the rebels, and I see some Chinese troops moving towards Dali so I retreat and send the unit northeast, to Yunnanfu. Andong and Tangshan have been liberated and I'm in the process of liberating Mukden and Beijing.

I reach Yunnanfu before I'm attacked in Dali. The Chinese unit reaches Dali, but it's a single irregular with only 6470 men, and not bothering to stop and occupy Dali. Another 5 units, including 3 Cavs, are on their way to Dali.

Dec 20: Beijing is liberated, and as tempting as it is to try and kill those regulars, my own unit is at risk so I offer terms. Guangzhou, Andong, Mukden and war indemnities. They accept.

Dec. 27: I trade Strategic Mobility and $700 to Denmark for H&L Pressure Steam Engines.

Jan 1, 1846: Functionalism finished (bringing me to 1.43 RP per month), Realism begun.

My fledgling empire after 10 years:

Europe and my budget. No change in territory except that one province I got from Russia. Also note that the Ottoman Empire is still struggling to deal with Egypt.

****Screenshot0007

America and my Pop overview. To the north are just UK controlled provinces. To the south, Argentina's dealing with rebels but nothing else interesting. * for completed claims, ? for under construction claims, colour coded for your convenience. I hadn't even noticed that the USA/Mexico war had ended, but skimming through the history, the Hidalgo treaty was on Sep 23, 1845.

***Screenshot0008

Africa and my Tech screen. I've really been neglecting commerce, not that it matter with my Chinese war indemnities based economy. The claim in the west is mine, stolen from Morocco, the ones in the east are still Oman's. Nothing atypical to the south.

****Screenshot0009

Finally, Asia and my overview. Red dots in Annam's provinces, the green dot is China's rebel controlled province. The other rebel provinces are mine. Also note still independent Panjab. Hooray for Panjab! Their peace treaty with the UK expires Dec. 10, 1848. I'm considering giving them some cash and army techs.

****Screenshot0010

Other stuff to note, I've been in the liberal revolution for a while now, but only 4 of my European provinces have a revoltrisk, and it's very low.

Ranks and Relations:

1 UK, +137
2 France +35
3 USA -17
4 Prussia +72
5 Russia +66
7 Austria -12
8 Bavaria +90
12 Denmark +183
48 Venezuela +194

I have the 6th biggest population in the world. The nation with the 2nd highest manpower is Mysore with 32. To my 1065. Yet I'm tied with Egypt for 12th highest number of divisions.

40d Talk:Armorsmith

2009-08-07T18:53:52Z

Mjo625:

== huh? ==
Why is weight an issue? You are not seriously calculating with the time needed for hauling?? --[[User:Confused|Confused]] 11:38, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
:The reasons would be to do with the encumberance of either the soldier wearing the armour or the merchant taking the armour off you I guess.[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 13:01, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
::The table is only about selling armor, so no. Traders don't care about weight encumbrance, so thats not it either. I now think the idea is the weight limit the traders have for taking stuff with them. Still an odd calculation. Why would i produce heavy armor that is in demand when i can't sell it then? On the other hand i never had problems with reaching the weight limit...--[[User:Confused|Confused]] 14:26, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
:::You might not have had problems with reaching the weight limit, but I have. And even if you can get all the stuff the merchants bring for without reaching their weight limit, why not give them more than they want anyway? It's not like the pieces of armor you make while training your armorsmith are good for much else (except for melting, but I find that's more effort than its worth). So let them carry it away and leave your armor stockpile with more space. That's my opinion anyway, and I made the table in excel originally just for self-reference. I thought others might find it useful as well so I posted it. I hadn't thought about the time needed for hauling, but that IS a benefit, even if it's a minuscule one. --[[User:Mjo625|Mjo625]] 18:53, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2009-08-05T22:54:44Z

Mjo625: /* Not a Roguelike */

{{Archive|
# [[Talk:Main Page/archive1|Archive 1]]
}}

== World Painter Page ==
The wiki has needed a page on the [[World Painter]] for a while, so I've started one. The information in there is decent, but I'm relatively new to wiki editing, so the formatting probably isn't. If someone wouldn't mind cleaning it up a bit for me I'd really appreciate it. --[[User:Timmeh|Timmeh]] 01:15, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

== French language wiki ==

Can we have interlanguage links with the [http://www.dwarffortress.fr/wiki/ French wiki]? -[[User:Alan Trick|Alan Trick]] 17:48, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Add a CptnDuck page? ==

Captain Duck is a DF video tutorial maker, which an impressive collection of 40 videos on youtube (and a few extra videos of sieges and arenas and whatnot), and explains how to do most everything, from magma forges to Dwarven justice. He adds humor to it and he's the reason a lot of people understand the game...I think we should give him a page. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Blackdoggie998|Blackdoggie998]]

:As it is insanely easy for anyone to sign up for editing priviledges on this site (I managed to, after all), I see no need to make one for him when he could make one for himself. However, if you wish to add user:CptnDuck, or invite him to make one himself, feel free. He can link to all of his tutorials from his user page. They even be searchable through that lovely little box to the(my) left. (Who knows where it is on your skin.) -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

:P.S. Does it seem odd to you to have it say "unsigned comment by [username]"? Or is that just me? -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, just a little after the previous one.

:We don't need a userpage for him, but a page with the assembled listing of all his (and others of equal quality) video tutorials wouldn't be a bad idea at all. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

== Articles on Olivine and other generic stones ==

There is a current discussion as to whether or not [[Olivine]] (and perhaps some few other stones) are duly covered on the current [[stone]] page, or are truly worth having their own article/page. This relates to a larger question of how this wiki is organized, and "What deserves a page" in a general sense. Any interested are encouraged to chime in, if only with a "me too" post pro or con. See [[Talk:Olivine]] for an idea of the issue. I'd like to have the debate move from the specific Olivine page to here since this is a more general issue that affects many potential pages. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 21:29, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:I'm not really sure which way to go on this one. A lot of otherwise useless stones would need their own articles if the guidelines were expanded... and yet, there's a good amount of useful information that's not on the main pages, that would further clutter them if it were added; And permitting more individual pages would solve both those problems. I guess this ends up being a vote both ways, with provisions on each. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:54, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:My vote is, if someone can make it amusing, then sure. If someone is of the bent to enjoy making such a page, then again, sure... otherwise, leave it at the bottom of the pile of "things that someday we might get around to if we feel like it" and don't stress. The relevant data is covered (or will be when someone notices it's not), and everything else is gravy. Beside, what would you rather do, play the game, or figure out how to make a whole page of jokes about how gneiss nice is.... (or did I get that backwards?)... ? --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

::All relevant information is covered, yes. But not necessarily on a relevant page. Before the Olivine page was made you couldn't learn that olivine may contain native platinum from any page related to olivine or stone in general.
::Another example is kaolinite. You can look it up in the table of Other Stone to see it can be found in sedimentary rock. But in order to see that it may itself contain alunite and marcasite you have to go through the entire table (or use the browser search function). Now, in order to see if it may contain anything else, you have to notice the note at the top of the page (just above the table of contents) that points to Metal Ore and Gem, whith another two tables you have to search through. (Kaolinite may contain turquoise). --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 21:44, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:It's not just about "which stones" - it's a larger question of how the wiki is organized and presented. Should each separate and distinct item get its own page, like the current one- or two-line articles on [[vial]]s, [[instrument]]s or [[Restraint|chain]]s, (just as random parallel examples of some [[finished goods]] that have their very own, very short, very dull, and predictably repetitive articles.) Surely the [[Masons guild]] and [[miners guild]] don't deserve or need separate articles. Do we need a separate and largely redundant article for every trap weapon? What about the cookie-cutter articles on ''every'' individual animal? The GCS deserves its own, and many others, but one on each separate type of shark and hunting cat? There is no actual article there, only a template.

:Quivers and bolts are sub-sections of the [[crossbow]] article, and I think that's a ''great'' call. Olivine, talc and kaolinite are merely similar examples, distinct enough to warrant special treatment, but on the borderline of being so small to each only represent a stub. Ultimately, I don't think a functional formal definition would be easily achieved - rather guidelines and a fuzzy target, combining related info into groups with optimal size limitations (both lower end and upper end). Perhaps a template should not be forced on every lesser example, but they could be grouped into a table on their own article, "other stones of note" or "sharks" or "finished goods" or whatever.

:In many ways, our only current guidelines are "what has been done so far" - and that varies widely and wildly. Too often, pages are cobbled onto related ones, or split off just because its a new topic, if a brutally short one. Myself, I'd like to see most related articles of less than 4 lines or so get grouped into larger, more universally informative articles, and anything larger than maybe 5 full sub-sections be considered for splitting up. If an item stands out from the rest, it should stand out somewhere, in an article - but that doesn't mean it has to have its very own, or invite every similar item to do so as well.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 03:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Please check out the (no longer) current [[Chalk]] page and tell me what you think. ... which is to say, it doesn't /have/ to be a stub, does it? It can be rich and detailed and sadly unamusing. It would please me to continue to do all stones in this manner, or another manner of your choosing.... Thus negating fussing over "this one was done this way, that one was done that way" arguments. I'll get to them all, in the order they appear on the [[Stones]] page. ... assuming you guys are ok with that. --[[User:Teres Draconis]] 08:28, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:: P.S. Who's the outpost manager of this place, anyways? I'd like to know to whom I should be pandering. --jaz

::: I think 1) you should take time to read, if not learn the wiki format guidelines, 2) you should sign with your REAL user name, and stop using a pseudonym, and 3) you should not break someone else's post with yours in between their paragraphs. As to the chalk page, I think it's over-enthusiastic and pays no attention to previous article style or formatting precedent - which may be a good thing or a bad thing, depending. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::: 1) You're right, I'm sorry.
::::2) We've discussed user names on [[User_Talk:Teres_Draconis#Naming Conventions|my talks page]]. (Also, <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> still puts "jaz"... why bother with the link when it's just a P.S.?)
::::3) I'm sorry. I was (apparently) trained wrong, and that was a /long/ time ago. I was taught (20 years ago) that when responding, to do so in-line, so that people can tell what the response is actually relating to. (Like an actual conversation, except with a time warp. You say something, I respond, someone else adds, we all move on to the next topic.) It supposedly adds clarity. The style and curtesy rules of such things has changed. I can see I'll need to update myself. Thank you for pointing that out. =)
::::4) I was hasty. I had to have meatspace people explain to me why, as wiki-''writers'', you would not want so much detail on a page. Especially when, with every new game release, any given page on the wiki might need an over haul. I was only looking at it from the end-user perspective of "If I'm looking for information, I don't want a page that just tells me to go look at the three pages I've already looked at. I want a page that reduces the noise of the irrelevant, and distills to just that specific (sub-)topic." I /don't/ see the point of six pages that are identacle except for title, and all only three lines long. If it's got it's own page, it should have it's own page. If it just links back to the three pages that linked to it, and they all link to each other already, what's the point? If the only thing Chalk has going for it is that it's flux, why not just make a note on the [[Stone]] page reading, "These three rocks can be used as flux" and link to the flux page from there? Why should chalk have it's own page, if it's not going to be richly detailed and, you know, informative? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::The templates are there because they are pretty, detailed, and condensed ways to display some key information. Rather than expanding existing information so that it takes up more space, it's more productive to add things that you think are lacking. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:15, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::: I changed the other [[Stones]] table to allow for interesting minerals that are in other[[Stones]] to be posted.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:17, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:What would actually be helpful is a [[Geology]] primer, indicating how layers and inclusions are placed, where, and what the implications of "You have struck XXX" are. I know, now, that if it's olivine, I have a chance of finding veins of native platinum. One good page explaining what all of the geological processes mean would be a lot more useful then all of the various descriptions of exploratory mining. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 22:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::That sounds like a great idea.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:46, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::I agree! But I have no idea how to write it. Most of what I know about geology I learned from looking at the raws. Everything else is "OMG, is that a ''rock''?! I've heard of those!" - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::"More useful" to some, but I agree it would be a great addition. Also, the more I think about it, the more I like what MrDG did with the table in Other Stone - tables could condense any and all small, individual articles into single pages w/ (sortable?) tables where all these various similar objects could be compared/contrasted at a glance. Templates are perfect when there is a lot of various info, but if the different topics (semi-generic stones, animals, finished goods) all differ only in one or two details, and there is just not that many variables to begin with, a Table would be (imo) preferable. ''(And imo that table now covers such stones as Olivine well, to get back to the original example that sparked this discussion.)''

::As an additional example of how current stub-articles could be combined into a simple table, I've made this page - [[Example - some fish]] - which could be a model for such. (A page/table with all the "Sea-creatures" would be more likely approp, but this was faster for now.) It would replace every stub-article on related "generic" items, but any truly noteworthy items would still have their own full articles for expanded information and commentary (here, "carp"). It still has 100% of the prev information, but also allows immediate comparison and contrast, and, if sortable, allows a User to more easily compare relations between similar aspects (like "biome", in this example.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::: Is it possible to put the expandable version of the raw ("game object data (show)" seen at the bottom of the [[carp]] page) inside the table, instead of the whole thing? Or does the one preclude the other? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Actually, if someone finds it easy to extract that information from the .RAWs, I would find that an improvement on what [[Creatures]] currently has. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 17:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::If someone here knows PHP they may be able to write a new wiki hook that pulls information from raw entries. That would make many things much easier. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Which information do you want extracted? I can probably do it for you, but you may have heard, I'm in the doghouse for not paying attention to style and formating rules. =/ Show me what there is, and one example of what you want, and I can probably do it for you with a minimum of stupid questions. ... ''Probably.'' - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::@ jaz, Dec - Did either of you look at this sample table? [[Example - some fish]] Does that cover what you were envisioning? It's just a rough idea - but it could work the same way that the table on the [[stone]] page currently does, to cover all the generic, almost-identical objects. Same w/ finished goods, weapon traps, probably many other sim categories of like items.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I've read this sort of. My view is, wikis add value to the game far more for noobs than they do to legends who have been around since when the z-axis was just an idea. With this in mind, I reckon if everything with a name in the game had an article that would be *A Good Thing* (tm). Just my own opinion, feel free to disagree. Ideally, articles for things like stones should contain a template constructed from the raws, with prose/dialogue manually added.
Even things like [[screw pump]] could have a template driven section, advising what the components are / who makes it etc. Maybe <nowiki>{{building|Building Name|Component 1:Component 1 name|Component X| component X name|Constructed by|trade}}</nowiki> or similar.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 08:45, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:I agree, probably, although that sounds like a lot of work. I think the stone templates and articles could do with a bit of a cleanup and more in-game information. I mostly use the articles to see if there's anything notable about a particular stone and then check out the wikipedia page. Some of the wikipedia links are broken or indirect now because disambiguity pages have been added since. Also, the wikipedia links are right at the bottom of very long boxes listing ores and gems and the like - I suggest adding drop down boxes to the templates that contain all that information but which are minimized by default. Or changing the template so that the wikipedia link wraps around the stone name at the top. --[[User:Harmonica|Harmonica]] 01:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Way late to this party, apologies. Tables are no good (to me) if they aren't sortable. The World Ends With You (a Nintendo DS game) Wikia portal/wiki thing has an ''awesome'' method for adding sortable tables. Some gadget called [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki Semantic MediaWiki] that hooks into the Wiki to automatically pull data out as you request it, then display it in easy-to-read and use sortable tables. The TWEWY Wikia has [http://twewy.wikia.com/wiki/The_World_Ends_With_You:Semantic_MediaWiki a page on it] for their editors, giving a few examples of how powerful it is. Their use of the tool is to easily pull information from a table of 304 items, each containing 30 attributes, to generate lists comparing and compiling various items. Hugely powerful, extremely flexible.

This type of tool would work wonderfully with a PHP RAW parser, or even simple dumps of the RAWs to the Wiki. Think of how easy it would be to update the entire Wiki across the board when new versions come out. New critters? Changes to existing critters? Update the information in one spot and it trickles down through the entire Wiki! That's in addition, of course, to being able to, say, generate tables listing how many bones each creature drops when killed, then sort to see which one drops the most. Pretty sweet stuff.

With some sort of system in place for wading through all the data on the wiki, one wouldn't have to worry about having too much information, right? -- [[User:Blank|Blank]] 04:44, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

== Not a Roguelike ==

Dwarf Fortress only resembles a Roguelike in the sense that everything kills you. ASCII graphics haven't connoted Rogue-resemblance since Diablo came out with modern 3D graphics and was still considered a Roguelike.
[[User:LogicalDash|LogicalDash]] 22:08, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you for Fortress mode, but adventurer mode is rogue like.--[[User:Mjo625|Mjo625]] 22:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

40d:Immigration

2009-08-05T19:56:01Z

Mjo625: Duplicate word

'''Immigration''' can occur during any [[season]]. A '''migrant''' is a member of a wave of immigration.

Migrants will spawn at the edge of your local zone and move towards any meeting area that you have designated. They will travel single file from this one location until the last one of this wave has arrived.

If there is no meeting zone they will simply sit at the edge of the map until their "migrant" status fades and they find a [[job]]. Keep in mind that they can spawn on '''any''' open edge of the map, on any Z-axis; if there is no available path to your [[fortress]], they will sit and wait until one is opened up or until they go crazy and die. Additionally, if you change orders so that Dwarves are not allowed outside ({{K|o}} - {{K|i}}) immediately after immigrants begin arriving they will freeze in place, with no path to your fortress. Some players have reported that their migrants spawn in the middle of nowhere. This behaviour is a bug, though an entertaining one.

By default, immigration will stop when your fortress reaches 200 or more, but you can change this in the [[init.txt]] file. It will take several years to reach this number, assuming you want to reach it at all. Once your population falls below this number, immigration will begin again.

== How immigration is calculated ==

Immigration figures are influenced by your fortress's total "Created [[Wealth]]", probably further influenced by reporting of the yearly dwarven [[caravan]].{{verify}} If, for any reason, the caravan does not arrive, or does not make it off the map alive the first year, no wealth is reported{{verify}}, and this will seriously hurt your chances for immigration.{{verify}} Later, if they fail to make it off your map, then the previous year's caravan report is used to determine the next immigration waves.{{verify}}. The other known factor that influences immigration is that dwarf deaths in your fortress will make immigrating dwarves scared, reducing immigrant numbers possibly down to zero. If this reduces the number of immigrants, the message announcing the seasonal immigrants will include comments to this effect.

Created Wealth is visible on the Status ({{K|z}}) screen once you get a [[broker]] with the [[appraiser]] skill). All objects with any [[value]] (including mined-out areas, [[bridge]]s, and just about every kind of created [[crafts|good]]) will be included in the total. [[Artifact]]s usually are one of the largest influences of fortress wealth. Artifacts made of precious resources and heavily [[decoration|decorated]] can potentially double fortress wealth early in the game. Forbidden items are included in your wealth "properly" as of [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html 09/02/2008].

It is not a hard formula - identical fortresses with identical created wealth will tend to get more or less based on that wealth, but can experience some differences in the exact number arriving. The wealth seems to create a target number, and the exact number of immigrants varies around that target.

Immigration is rarely greater than 24 dwarves per wave, not including [[pet]]s, [[children|kids]] and spouses, though rarely larger numbers have been reported.

Immigration will be stopped if your fortress reaches the Population Cap set in the [[init]] file, but a given wave may cause your total to exceed that number. If your current population is even 1 less than the Population Cap, a full wave of 2 dozen (or more?) immigrants can arrive.

== When does Immigration usually occur? ==
Usually you have to wait until the dwarven [[caravan]] arrives - and leaves alive - in Autumn to start the immigrants on their way. If the caravan reports a high Created Wealth ''(of perhaps over 60,000? - an approximate number, there is no hard formula or known cutpoint)'', you can expect to receive maybe eight or more migrants in Winter after the Caravan, and/or more in the Spring following. If your dwarves are extremely productive, immigration can occur before the caravan arrives, in [[Autumn]] or even in [[Summer]] of your first year. Even with low created wealth, immigration does usually begin in Spring of the second year on.

Migrants seem to have a greater tendency to arrive in [[Spring]] and in greater numbers, but can arrive in any season.

==Immigrants' skills==
Migrants are never very skilled. They arrive with one of the following mixes:
:* [[Peasant]]s - No skills at all
:* Novice level (level 6) of two or three related skills from a single [[profession]]
:* A (no adjective) level (level 7) of a single [[skill]]
:* A [[Soldier]] - Novice level each of [[wrestler]], [[armor user]], one [[Weapons#Weapon & Military Skills|weapon skill]] (and shield user if not a [[marksdwarf]])

Migrants will sometimes bring their unskilled [[spouse]]s, [[child]]ren, and even their [[pet]] [[animal]]s. Children can perform some jobs, and will slowly grow to become adults, and any adult dwarf can be given any job, and eventually learn that [[skill]] while performing that [[labor]].

=== How to influence the types of dwarves that immigrate ===
Note that the greater the number of dwarven [[civilization]]s, the greater your ability to influence immigration.{{verify}}

The immigrants' [[skills]]/[[jobs|careers]] might be influenced by the type and number of [[workshops]] available, but also might be influenced by the population of the surviving dwarven civilizations. (Similar to that [[goblin]]s sometimes have dwarves in their armies, that were previously snatched from you!)

[[Soldiers]] will only arrive if you have made their type of [[weapon]]; if you make one [[battle axe]], you will only get [[axedwarf|axedwarves]]. If you make a [[crossbow]] and a [[war hammer]], you will get [[marksdwarf|marksdwarves]] and [[hammerdwarf|hammerdwarves]]. This is not affected by weapons brought to your fort; getting immigrant [[woodcutter]]s won't let you get immigrant axedwarves. It is not known if the number of weapons created matters.{{verify}}

When you meet certain requirements in your outpost, like population or created wealth, some [[nobles]] will immigrate, like the [[Dungeon master]].

==Immigrant's equipment==
A migrant may not always come with the necessary equipment to perform their jobs. For example, a [[Wood cutter]] may or may not come with a [[battle axe]]. [[Soldiers]] may appear with only the clothes on their back, or geared up in full steel armor and weapon. Rarely, a migrant may come with equipment they ''don't'' need to do their jobs - for example, a [[Carpenter]] may come with a [[battle axe]].

== What are the drawbacks to immigration? ==
Most of the time, immigration is a ''Good Thing,'' and the more, the merrier. More dwarves means more work gets done (especially hauling, since immigrants are basically peasants), more dwarves can be given "luxury" tasks like defending the fortress or making [[dye]]d [[cloth]], and some nobles require a certain number of dwarves before they arrive. However, more dwarves also means more CPU cycles eaten up, especially if your fortress is already taxing on your computer.

Of course, additional dwarves also require additional [[bedroom]]s, workshops, and [[alcohol|booze]] before they can be properly productive, and some players prefer to increase their population slowly to allow them to add the extra infrastructure at a more sedate pace.

== How can I curb immigration? ==
The easiest method to handle immigration is to change the point when immigration stops in [[Init.txt#POPULATION|init.txt]], under "population_cap". You can first set it low and raise it as you see fit. Note that you may consider this to be cheating, and it also requires exiting the game each time you want more immigrants.

You can also make sure your fort does not produce or build much. Of course, this is not an especially interesting way to play the game. Since artifacts often account for most of your fortress' wealth, killing dwarves that enter [[strange mood]]s, or turning the moods off entirely in the init file, may be a better option. This can often be accomplished by making sure all your [[workshop]]s are in enclosed [[room]]s, then locking the [[door]] on them until they go [[insane]], then starve to death. This has a drawback in that dwarves that do manage to produce an artifact often gain a desirable [[legendary]] [[skill]]. Lock the door at your own discretion.

You can also kill the immigrants themselves, deliberately or otherwise. Large numbers of deaths will reduce immigration or prevent it entirely.

Several immigration messages are possible:

* ''Some migrants have arrived.''
: This is the normal message.
* ''Some migrants have arrived, despite the danger.''
: This occurs if there are many deaths but not enough to stop immigration.
* ''Some migrants have decided to brave this terrifying place, knowing it may be their tomb.''
: Appears to be caused by a lot of deaths (80+?) yet with a fortress wealthy enough (2 million?) to attract immigrants anyway.
* ''No one even considered making the journey to such a cursed death-trap this season.''
: Very large numbers of deaths at a fortress can cause all immigration (except nobles) to cease for a while: your fortress has gained a reputation as a deathtrap! Killing nobles seems to have a magnified effect here, and killing even a single noble can cause no immigrants to arrive in the next [[season]].

== Migrants in [[Adventure Mode]] ==
Roving bands of migrants may be found on the world map. These migrants can be linked to any of the major civilizations found on the world. This includes [[goblin]]s and [[kobold]]s. Such bands will consist of non-specialized adults and children.

== Migration Effects on the World ==
It is possible for migration to change the population levels of settlements on the map over time, and to cause factions of a civilization to merge. This can be discovered through talking to individuals in Adventurer mode, and will subsequently show up in [[Legends mode]].

[[Category:Dwarves]]
[[Category:World]]

{{Starting FAQ}}

40d:Armorsmith

2009-08-03T17:44:27Z

Mjo625:

{{Skill
| color = #444
| skill = Armorsmith
| speciality = Armorsmith
| profession = [[Metalsmith]]
| job name = Armoring
| tasks =
* Forge [[armor]]
| workshop =
* [[Metalsmith's forge]]
* [[Magma forge]]
}}
The '''armorsmith''' skill is used to make all [[metal]] [[armor]] and [[shields]] at a [[metalsmith's forge]] (or [[magma forge]]). The corresponding [[labor]] is '''armoring'''.

Like all artisans in Dwarf Fortress, skilled armorsmiths make armor more quickly, and of a higher [[quality]], than unskilled dwarves. The higher the quality of armor, the more damage it can block, which helps to minimize [[sparring]] injuries and casualties in [[combat]]. A [[legendary]]+5 armorsmith is potentially the most valuable dwarf any fortress could hope to have. This makes armorsmith skill a very popular choice in [[starting builds]].

== Training armorsmiths ==

To train an armorsmith to legendary (or legendary+5, better still), you must have him or her make hundreds of pieces of armor. Use [[copper]] for this (or [[bronze]], if you have ample [[cassiterite]]: save your precious steel or iron for after the training is done (though you may opt to make a few steel suits early on for your soldiers to wear).

These hundreds of pieces of armor will rapidly [[clutter]] the forge, greatly slowing down the smithy's progress. To keep up with a high-skill armorsmith, you must employ several full-time [[hauling|haulers]] to clear out the shop: either item haulers, to drag the pieces to nearby armor [[stockpile]]s, or refuse haulers, to drag the items to a nearby [[dump]]. (Dumping, however, requires periodically redesignating the area over the forge ({{k|d}}-{{k|b}}-{{k|d}}) in order to mark its contents for dumping.) Setting up several forges and having the smithy move from one to the next when they get cluttered works well in concert with multiple haulers. You can also employ a spare metalsmith of any sort to keep destroying and rebuilding the forges to clear them out.

Making one piece of armor grants 30 [[experience]] points, regardless of how many metal [[bars]] it takes to create. Therefore, you should train your armorsmiths on pieces of armor that take only one bar to create (helms, caps, shields, bucklers, gauntlets, boots, and leggings).

If you wish to recover the metal used to make these items (via [[melt]]ing), you should make chain [[leggings]], which have a 50% recovery rate, higher than that of other armor items. You may also opt to sell the armor to [[merchant]]s. In order to determine what type of armor would be best for export, take the "Value / (Weight x Bars Used)" value in the below table, and multiply it by the percentage offered in any [[trade agreement]]s you have active. Produce the type of armor with the highest result.

{| cellpadding="2" border="1"
|-
! Armor
! Value / (Weight x Bars Used)
|-
| Low Boot
| 2
|-
| High Boot
| 1.5
|-
| Cap
| 1.5
|-
| Gauntlet
| 1.2
|-
| Helm
| 0.75
|-
| Buckler
| 0.667
|-
| Chain Mail
| 0.625
|-
| Leggings
| 0.375
|-
| Shield
| 0.3
|-
| Greaves
| 0.25
|-
| Plate Mail
| 0.222
|-
|}

In addition to training an armorsmith the hard way, you can try to boost your chances of getting a legendary armorsmith via a [[strange mood]] by having your peasants and other dwarves without "moodable" skills construct a single item of armor. This will give them dabbling skill in armorsmithing, and will cause them to become legendary+1 armorsmiths should they have a fey or secretive mood (but not a possession). A moody armorsmith will always create some form of [[artifact]] armor, often of incredible value, though only equivalent in protection to what a masterpiece item made of the same material would provide.{{verify}}

{{Skills}}
[[Category:Skills]]
[[Category:Jobs]]

40d Talk:Liaison

2009-03-19T13:46:53Z

Mjo625: /* No Liaison? */

Any idea how to keep them from staying till they go insane. Every winter my dwarves live in fear of the bruce lee of liaisons going into a martial trance.

At first I thought they'd stay if they didn't get to talk with my broker but having a meeting doesn't help get them out. --[[User:Lucid|Lucid]] 17:44, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Make sure you have your broker free long enough to make your demands and to views theirs, it take about 4 meetings between your broker and the liaison. At least that is how I get him to leave --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 18:08, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

so THAT'S how you do it, good thing I turned off my expo leader from hunting, the damned liason kept on scaring off the deer [the leader, and broker] was chasing :\

== Broker, not Leader? ==

So it's the broker, not the mayor, that meets with these guys? That changes some things. (I'm trying to keep the Liasons outside of my fortess so they don't know where the traps are, if they ever siege.)

No, its the leader/mayor. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 11:33, 20 February 2008 (EST)

:i have my leader and broker separate(not by choice) in my current fort, and noticed that while the dwarf liaison meets with the leader, the human rep most definately meets with the broker, not the leader. --[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 06:57, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

::Ditto, my broker keeps meeting with the Liasons (all of them, i think, certainly the human one) despite not having been mayor for something like 5 years (military dwarves always seem to get elected mayor...). In fact, I just annoyed a human liason because my broker (not mayor) entered a strange mood just as the liason entered my fortress (thus promptly leaving).
::Now, Diplomats meet with the highest ranking leading noble you have (mayor/baron+/etc...), and I don't know why Diplomat redirects to Liason as humans and elves occasionally send a diplomat to make demands or merely comment 'this is a nice place you've carved out for yourself'.
::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 06:54, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

Ok, I changed this so that it correctly says the human liason meets with your broker. I left the dwarven liason as Mayor but I'm not certain that's true - my one still existent game which is suitably set up to check this otherwise is now the mountainhome, so I'm unable to verify at present. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 21:07, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

::Anecdotal evidence of dwarven liason using Mayor/Exp Leader - I got an initial set of dwarves where they made someone expedition leader who didn't have the broker skills, so exp leader and broker were different dwarves. Dwarven Liason met with Exp Leader. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:55, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

== really set off traps? ==
I have both liaisons walk through a maze of traps every time they visit, never got hurt. Maybe a 38a/b/c bug? What kind of traps were they triggering?--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:56, 27 February 2008 (EST)

:I'm running DF 38a and every year when the caravans arrive I get a new human corpse to loot. My liasons ''never'' make it past my traps (weapon[disc] and stonefall). I wish they would, I'd like to adjust what they bring. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 21:00, 3 March 2008 (EST)
::well known bug for 38a, it was fixed in 38b -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 21:54, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Mine just set off a Trap too. Died. Running verson 40c for mac. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 09:19, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

== Can't assign new leader; wiki article is incorrect ==

Leaders are elected and can't be manually chosen. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 23:34, 8 March 2008 (EST)

I may be remembering wrong, but I recall my liasons wanting to meet my Broker, who is manually chosen. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 01:52, 9 March 2008 (EST)

== Diplomat ==

I have an elven diplomat telling my duchess not to cut down more than 55 trees (and calling her short.. a member of Elves for the Ethical Treatment of Trees?). Is this kind of diplomat separate from the trade liaison? The page [[Diplomat]] redirects here.. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:18, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:Yes and no. We should maybe move this page to "diplomat" as both the human and dwarven one (and the elven one? never had one of those although im trying hard *grin*) are called diplomat in the unit list. On the other hand the elves never send a trade diplomat(?) so, yes he is somewhat different, but should be included then... --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:37, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

== weird trigger for liaison screens ==
it seems once the meeting has started the usual delay between the screens can be avoided by marking tiles for digging with the mouse - this will cause the screens to pop up during marking (just be careful with pressing space bar) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:29, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

== odd behaviour out of season/character ==
My siege engineer has just spend a while wandering around my fortress with the job "Attend Meeting" even though a) he is not the broker or mayor, b) there are no merchants or liasons on the map. He would go to one place and just stand there doing nothing then walk to another place and repeat. This went on for a while then he just went back to normal. There were other jobs he could have been doing at the time. Most odd. Is this a bug should I report it? [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 19:19, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
:To clear up a point of confusion the job "Conduct Meeting" is the job assigned to the Mayor,Broker, or Baron/Count. After dwarven economy is running a dwarf might get the job "Attend Meeting". That dwarf seeks a meeting with the Mayor. If the Mayor is busy he will continue to follow the Mayor around until he is free. The solution I found is to switch off the Mayor's labors so he's free to conduct the meeting. The meeting is usually quick and then you'll get the other dwarf working again.--[[User:Angus|Angus]] 20:52, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

== verified some embarrassment factors ==
From dwarfort.exe
(Name) was embarrassed to have to conduct an official meeting in a dining room.
(Name) was very embarrassed to have to conduct an official meeting in a bedroom.
[[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 19:58, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

: I would be happier if someone could verify that it is actually _used_ in game, but, well. You see, my palace office never triggered any thought. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:13, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

::Try giving them a dining room and no office, koltom. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:26, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

:::I got these unhappy thoughts from meetings conducted in public dining halls that were also designated as meeting halls. (I do not know whether they also happen from nobles' personal dining rooms designated from private tables.) They seem to be very minor unhappy thoughts, so I'm not going out of my way to avoid such designations to keep my idlers from going to hang out by the wagon in the fortresses' early stages. --[[User:Brent Not Broken|Brent Not Broken]] 12:31, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Liaisons, zoo material? ==

I want to know whether or not to trap the liaisons before they leave and have them in cages. Should I do this or not?--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 19:17, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

:hm..
: *You can't trap them (unless you mean locking them in a room)
: *You can't assign them to cages
: If u don't let them leave they will go crazy and your requests for trade items will most likely be ignored
: why do you want to trap them? (okay, they are annoying, but also useful) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:41, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

==Human Diplomat==
Added information about the human diplomat, whom i've seen meeting with my Baron/Count/Duke often enough (4 different games, multiple times in each). They don't seem to do much at present - though I haven't tried to incur a human siege of my fortress to see if they sue for peace if you beat them. I imagine they could theoretically make demands like the elven diplomat does, except they aren't picky about things like cutting down trees. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 21:07, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Meeting With Elves ==

What happens if you choose different option instead of saying yes to whatever they say? The number of trees keep going lower...57....43...37...well they aren't the exact numbers but close to them. I might want to try to fight them once. I've got some ore to melt and I need a good amount of charcoal... They appear every year after cutting too much trees?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 23:36, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

New meeting with elves craziness - i've seriously cut down like 10 cacti total, and that was over 5 years ago. Wood imports have been more than sufficient since then. The elf diplomat shows up for the first time and tells me I've been disrespecting the trees. Does the diplomat always say the same thing? Because he's making no sense whatsoever. In addition to their being absolutely no trees on my map (Yay Saguaros?), I haven't even chopped any in ages. I've bought 20x the amount I ever chopped from the elven caravans. How have I been disrespecting the 'trees'? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:28, 9 December 2008 (EST)

== liaison - dead and gone? (death of a salesman) ==
When in the first summer the dwarven caravan arrived with the outpost liaison at my latest fortress, the liason made it savely past the traps but seems to have died just in front of the depot - no blood to be seen, no message in the announcement, just as he had died a natural death.
Strange enough, but after I provided him a coffin, in the next year the dwarves came without another liaison. So I disposed the treacherous coffin and bones in my crush-o-mat. But that didn't have any effect either: There didn't come any liaison anymore.
In the first place I wonder why he died, and also why he isn't succeeded?!--[[User:Doub|Doub]]

== Left Unhappily? ==

I just got a message
"Diplomacy Stymied. A diplomat has left unhappy."
The last part of the meeting never occured, and my mayor was unable to meet him, due to seige. Was the dwarven diplomat. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:59, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

== Person to meet set when liaison arrives? ==

When the human liaison arrived this year, I had "Trader Joe" Stukosshed as my Broker. Shortly after, the goblins sieged and Joe got hit by a stray arrow while evacuating. His arm is mangled, so he's resting. I assigned a new broker, but it looks like the Human liaison is holding vigil beside Joe's bed, waiting for him to wake up to run the meeting. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:32, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

==Liaison dead??==

The human guild representative was walking around my fort; he seemed all fine, did not set off any traps. Suddenly, a few (real-life) minutes later, I see a human corpse in my refuse stockpile. He also didn't even have a meeting (note: he died about 2 months after the caravan left). Should I expect a human siege?

: Probably, yes. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 13:12, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== 404 meeting not found ==

Issue resolved. The problem was that my mayor wanted to update stockpile records instead of take the damn meeting. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:50, 16 January 2009 (EST)

==No Liaison?==
First year, rather rough terrain, dwarf caravan arrived just fine though but... no liaison? At all? I kind of wanted to request bauxite... I guess I'm glad I brought some with me... Has anyone else had this happen? What's going on? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:15, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:I have a similar problem in my current game, for the simple reason that I have embarked as part of a tiny civilisation - one which apparently has no king. No king means no liaison. This happened because of my parameters, but I'm sure that it can happen coincidentally in the unaltered game as well. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 12:47, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::I had a similar incident a while back, where the liaison never showed up, not even in the first year. I didn't think to check whether or not my civ had a king/queen, but I was on a terrifying glacier so I had just assumed he had froze to death or something before reaching my site.--[[User:Mjo625|Mjo625]] 13:46, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

==Liaison dead?, help==
My liaison died to a goblin ambush a few years back on his way out.. midwinter. Do I never get a new one or the chance to request stuff again?--[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 11:00, 11 January 2009 (EST)

==Insane Liason==
How long does it take to drive a dwarven liason insane from being ingored? They guy's getting on my nerves, lurking outside the door and not letting poor Elfcrusher leave.

:The timer only seems to start if he's met/seen the dwarf he wants to talk to. I've had a Liaison wander around for 3 years because he couldn't get anywhere near my mayor/broker - enough time he should have gone insane otherwise. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:57, 31 January 2009 (EST)

::Then I'm lucky the wolves decided to vist. Cheers anyway. --[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 14:22, 31 January 2009 (EST)

== Elven diplomat, ...what? ==

So, today an elven diplomat came to me and said I had carved a nice place out for myself. Then he left, which left me quite confused. Earlier an elven caravan arrived but was ambushed and brutally killed, is that why the diplomat came? If so, why didn't he say anything? [[User:Tardface|Tardface]] 12:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

:Your baroness / countess / duchess will get liaisons from friendly civilisations occasionally. They often just say that you have carved out a lovely place, then leave. Did you get a new noble recently? [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 12:46, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Modding guide

2009-03-19T10:22:00Z

Mjo625: /* Rock Crystals */

[re: Creating separate .txt file for new creatures]

This didn't work well for me. I added a new playable civ (Klackon) to the entity_default file like this page said, and the species (Klackon) in that new civ was located in a new .txt file. Dwarves still showed up, but never my civ. I kept reducing the number of allowable dwarf civs thinking they were just competing for selection, culminating in getting rid of them entirely, ending up in developing a world that had humans and elves only! Oops.

Finally, I added my Klackon creature to the end of the creature_standard file instead of only having them in the creature_klackon.txt file.. Voila! I now have dwarf civs and klackon civs in the same world and actually get a choice between them when I make a fort.

It's very possible that I just messed up something basic when I made the new .txt file to contain the creature definition, but I could still point out that making a new, separate .txt file certainly didn't make things simpler for me, so it's not such great advice for budding modders.

Everything else worked fine though, so thanks, still!
:Have to be sure to add the text files name ( "creature_klackon" without the parenthesis, or brackets) and the line [OBJECT:CREATURE] to tell the game its a creature file. --[[User:Darkone|Darkone]] 18:17, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

== Bad info? ==

So someone added a big notice at the top that suggests there's a fair bit of out-of-date text.. but no mention of what that may be, no links to forum posts, et cetera. Someone want to clue me in on just what, exactly, is no longer relevant? --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 15:14, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:I think it's safe to take off the version warning but the examples need to be tested. It would probably be easier to manage if this article was split into smaller, in depth, modding guides. --[[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 23:07, 28 February 2008 (EST)

I would love to see a little more descriptive way of handling the raw files as opposed to simply a slew of examples on things to mod. Perhaps I'm just not spending enough time "tinkering", but it seems that the current article is set up rather poorly. Is that just me? --[[User:Borgin|Borgin]]
[EDIT]
I didn't realize there were complete lists of tokens. Silly me; that sure makes things easier. 1:37, 15 May 2008 (CST)

== Arachnid Tutorial ==

<s>Minor nitpick here, but it apears he forgot to add :5FINGERS:</s> tested it and it works, added it to wiki. as one of its body tags to go with its hands. Also, as a nice additional tutorial, maybe add in this little bit of code to show people how to add joints? --[[User:Darkone|Darkone]] 18:39, 2 May 2008 (EDT)<pre>
[BODY:ARACHNID_JOINTS]
[BP:RUA_J:right shoulder][CON:RUA][JOINT][SMALL][INTERNAL][RIGHT]
[BP:LUA_J:left shoulder][CON:LUA][JOINT][SMALL][INTERNAL][LEFT]
[BP:RLA_J:right elbow][CON:RLA][JOINT][SMALL][INTERNAL][RIGHT]
[BP:LLA_J:left elbow][CON:LLA][JOINT][SMALL][INTERNAL][LEFT]
[BP:RH_J:right wrist][CON:RH][JOINT][SMALL][INTERNAL][RIGHT]
[BP:LH_J:left wrist][CON:LH][JOINT][SMALL][INTERNAL][LEFT]
</pre>

== Dwarven Flight ==

If I add the line [FLIER] to my dwarven civilisation would anything interesting happen? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:30, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

:No, dwarves will just spam "Task cancelled: dangerous terrain". They will have problems doing anything. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:09, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

::Flight pathing is even broken for invaders. What a shame! Swimmers can have problems too, though not ''that'' bad. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 16:40, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== Fireproof Trees? ==

Is there any means to create a wood material (and corrosponding trees to harvest for it) which will not burn, or at least won't ignite from contact with magma? --[[User:Rakankou|Rakankou]] 00:47, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
:I am no expert but, what if you added the [FIRE_IMMUNE] tag to trees. Do not know if that will work, or if thats even the right tag. [[User:Magikarcher|Magikarcher]] 02:12, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::[FIREIMMUNE] doesn't seem to work for making a fire safe wood. I think it's a creature token, anyway, so it makes sense that it wouldn't work for materials. --[[User:Rakankou|Rakankou]] 12:27, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::: It's a creature token so it won't work. However, taken from Adamantine's entry (it is magma-proof):
::::[SPEC_HEAT:7500]
::::[MELTING_POINT:25000]
::::[BOILING_POINT:50000]
:::Hopefully that helps. --[[User:Borgin|Borgin]] 20:11, 12 August 2008
IGNITE_POINT is a matgloss token. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 17:01, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== .txt ==

My word processer won't let me save .txts. Does that matter?
:Yes. A word processor program (like anything from Microsoft Office) will generate all sorts of gibberish in addition to your text. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 11:22, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

== Adventure mode? ==

Do I have to add the tag adventure tier to the dark elves to make them playable in adventure mode? [[User:Yaddy1|Yaddy1]] 16:13, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

Yup. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 16:40, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== Modded creatures not showing? ==

I tried making my own races for a test. Spartans, copied from entity_info of dwarves and creature_Standard info from Humans and small bit from Titans.
Persians, Like goblins but weaker and stupider.
after running 4 different regions with different settings, only Goblins, Dwarves and Humans showed up. What am I doing wrong? There is not a single trace of them even existing at the legends screen.
I really want to kick persians with spartans instead of biting goblins with dwarves.
[[User:Skibiliano|Skibiliano]] 14:22, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

:The problem probably lies in the titan tags. In any case, backing up the original raws and just editing them would be easier to test. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 16:40, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== "Random" civ selection with more than one playable civ ==

In the main text on this page (and I swear in a fair few other places, but I can't find them for some reason), it notes that if you have the [CIV_CONTROLLABLE] token on more than one entity it will randomly select from the playable civs when you embark. Well, yes, it's random in the sense that it initially selects a random group for your fortress to be an offshoot of, but you can easily select the desired species of your fort inhabitants by manually picking the appropriate group from the embark screen, either using legends mode to work out which group is which species, or by checking the "nearby civilizations" section and seeing which species is at the top (it seems that your species will always be at the top of the list). I'm going to adjust the "random selection" note to say you can choose your civilization, but I'm not sure if a whole mini-tutorial on picking your civ really belongs in the modding guide, or whether it should go somewhere else. Comments? --[[User:Quil|Quil]] 12:10, 16 November 2008 (EST)

:Just the one line about how the race you'll be playing will be at the top of the 'neighbours' list wouldn't be that bad, wouldn't it? No tutorial required, anyway. Maybe we could divide the topic later, but I think this is an relevant as anything, considering how much depth can be added to the game this way. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 18:55, 16 November 2008 (EST)

::Okay, added a paragraph on picking your species. I think I covered all the pertinent points fairly succinctly. As a random aside, while the species I added is quite hardy and long-lived, so they've never been wiped out, I'm not sure if the game will care if some of the playable species die out. While in the vanilla game with the default settings it's impossible to kill off the dwarves, since the game will reject it due to having no playable civs, with additional playable races it may just be possible to have your extra species (or the dwarves) all die out and be unplayable in an otherwise acceptable map.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 09:44, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::I confirmed that. My aquatic playable civ didn't appear on a map without their starting biome, and my single gender race was wiped out by humans on the next go, leaving only the other playable each time. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 16:40, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== Rock Crystals ==

How would I go about modding the game to either allow me to import rough rock crystals or allowing me to make crystal glass from cut rock crystals?--[[User:Mjo625|Mjo625]] 07:37, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Or add a reaction that will change rock crystals into rough rock crystals. I added

[REACTION:ROUGH ROCK CRYSTAL]
[NAME:Melt Rock Crystal]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:1:SMALLGEM:NO_SUBTYPE:STONE:ROCK_CRYSTAL]
[PRODUCT:100:1:ROUGH:NO_SUBTYPE:ROCK_CRYSTAL]
[FUEL]

to reaction_standard but it doesn't seem to be working. The dwarf takes the rough crystal and charcoal to the smelter, works for a while but doesn't produce anything.--[[User:Mjo625|Mjo625]] 10:22, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Modding guide

2009-03-19T07:37:45Z

Mjo625: /* Rock Crystals */ new section

40d:Trading

2009-03-05T05:27:57Z

Mjo625: /* Wagons */

{{Building|name=Trade depot|key=D
|job=
1 of:
* [[Broker]] noble
* None (See description)
|construction=
3 of
* [[Block]]
* [[Metal bar]]
* [[Stone]]
* [[Wood]]
|construction_job=
* [[Architecture]]
* and 1 of:
** [[Metalsmithing]]
** [[Masonry]]
** [[Carpentry]]
|purpose=
Trade goods with other races.
}}
'''Trading''' in Dwarf Fortress first occurs in the first [[autumn]] after establishing your fortress, with the arrival of the [[dwarf|Dwarven]] [[Trading#Caravans|caravan]]. Trading is a good way to acquire resources that are not available or are rare in the local area. It also allows for more freedom in selecting starting gear, because items can always be obtained through trade later, e.g. one can drop the expensive [[anvil]] to bring 500 extra units of [[alcohol|booze]] or purchase additional skills for the expedition party. New players can [[Your_first_fortress#Trading|look here]] for advice on trading with the first caravan.

== Trade Depot ==
Building a '''Trade Depot''' ({{K|b}} - {{K|D}}) will allow you the opportunity to trade with caravans that arrive at your fortress. Trade depots can be created from almost any material, and construction requires the [[Architecture]] skill along with the appropriate craft labor ([[Carpentry]], [[Masonry]], or [[Metalsmithing]]).

While it may be convenient to build a Trade Depot outside first, it is usually a good idea to move it inside or build fortifications around it to protect caravans and your goods from [[thief|thieves]] and [[goblin]]s.

Hit {{K|q}} to bring up the building interaction mode, and then move your cursor over the Trade Depot to gain access to the following options.

=== Move Goods to/from Depot ===
{{K|g}}: This command becomes active when a caravan arrives on your map. Choosing items from this menu will mark them as [PENDING] and [[dwarves]] will begin moving them to the depot (all dwarves regardless of labor settings will move goods to the depot when necessary). Items that have been brought to the depot are ready for trade and will be marked as [TRADING]. Items nominated for trading will remain at the depot until the caravan leaves, or the [PENDING] / [TRADING] flag is cleared by choosing the item again. Once no longer required at the depot, items will be available for use or hauling to stockpiles as normal.

=== No trader needed at depot or Trader requested at depot ===
{{K|r}}: This requests a dwarf to come to the depot. To conduct trades with caravans, a trader must be present at the Trade Depot. Once requested, a dwarf will make their way to the depot, and remain there until released with this setting, or the dwarf decides to drink, sleep, or eat.

=== Only broker may trade or Anyone may trade ===
{{K|b}}: This setting determines who will perform the trade. If '''Only broker may trade''' is active, then only the [[Broker]] [[noble]] will respond to the trader request. This can become a problem when the broker is sleeping or otherwise occupied, but dwarves with low [[Broker skills]] will receive poorer deals when trading.

=== Trade ===
{{K|t}}: This option becomes available once the caravan and your trader are both at the depot. It begins trading.

==Trading==
{{:Trading/Flowchart}}
After entering the trade menu, select the items to offer from the right, and the desired items from the left. All caravans have a weight limit which cannot be exceeded, and the allowed additional weight is displayed in the lower right corner. If the acting broker has at least Novice or better [[Appraisal]] skill, the value of all items will be displayed. Once the proposal is ready, press {{K|t}} to make an offer, but merchants will not agree unless they make adequate profit. Be sure to use '''trade''', not '''offer''' {{K|o}}, as this will make a gift of the selected items. The amount of acceptable profit is determined by the broker's [[Broker skills|skills]] and the merchant's mood, described below. Merchants may attempt to propose counteroffers if they do not accept the proposal, which can then be accepted, rejected, or further amended by the broker.

A good rule of thumb for inexperienced brokers is to give merchants a 50% or better profit. For example, if the desired goods are worth 500☼, make sure their profit is at least 250☼ (which would make the total worth of the offered goods 750☼). This should ensure that the merchants are happy with the trading and that they accept the trade immediately without making ridiculous counteroffers. With more experienced brokers or pleased merchants, even marginally profitable trades can be successful, and counteroffers can be rejected safely, offering the same trade again.

=== Trading cue colors ===

* Items in brown have been created (or modified) by your fortress. They can be traded away or offered as a gift.
* Items in white were created by another source. They can be traded, but if one of these items has been selected, the entire selection cannot be offered as a gift.
* Items in purple are under a no-export mandate and should not be traded away unless exceptional circumstances (or masochism) push you to do this.
* Items in green have just been gifted to the caravan and they will not trade it back.
* Items in red have been seized from another caravan and cannot be traded as is; you will need to decorate them or turn them into other items for them to become "valid" trading items.

=== Merchant mood ===
If your broker has Novice or better [[Judge of Intent]] skill, there will be a line added below the merchant's dialogue describing the caravan's attitude. Their attitude rises with successful trades (especially if they get lots of profit) and falls when you propose deals they don't like.

* (trader) seems ecstatic with the trading
* (trader) seems very happy about the trading
* (trader) seems pleased with the trading
* (trader) seems willing to trade (Default, at least for humans)
* (trader) seems to be rapidly losing patience
* (trader) is not going to take much more of this
* (trader) is unwilling to trade

The happier you make a merchant, the less profit margin he will demand in a trade. If merchants reach the lowest level, no further trade will be possible, and they will immediately pack up and leave your depot. Since annoyed traders are more likely to reject deals, you should be generous in initial negotiations. Skilled negotiators seem less likely to offend traders with unsuccessful deals.

=== Seizing items ===

Pressing {{K|s}} from the trade menu will seize the selected items of the merchant's. If you seize goods from a caravan, the merchant will respond "Take what you want. I can't stop you." and then leave immediately without the seized goods. Items cannot be seized from the dwarven caravan, and other races will not buy stolen goods (marked in red) unless they are tricked into asking for them via counteroffer, or the items are "naturalized" by decoration or used to create other goods. Seizing goods will hurt diplomatic relations, but is not grounds for an automatic [[siege]].

As a side note, if you remove your trade depot, all the caravan's items will drop to the ground, to be readily hauled away by your dwarves. This does not mark the item as stolen, and the caravan will leave.

Another way to steal without marking as stolen is to forbid traders' goods. They will leave them in depot.

Note that the civilization attached to a particular caravan will keep track of the value of items the caravan was carrying when they set out to trade, and they will compare this value with the value of items they return home with. Regardless of what method you use to confiscate items from a caravan, even if you came to possess the goods through no fault of your own (an [[ambush]] killed the caravaners, for example) the parent civilization may decide that you stole from them and send a [[siege]] instead of a caravan the following year. It is prudent to take measures to protect caravans visiting your lands!

===Offering items===

{{key|o}} You can also give away items, as gifts to the leaders of the [[civilization]] you are trading with. This presumably helps relations between yourself and the other faction. The exact effects are unknown but it is believed that offering goods increases the quantity and variety of trade goods brought by next year's caravan. Also the [[King]] may require offerings before his arrival.

== Caravans ==
Each friendly race will send a caravan once per year, but only if that race considers the fortress site accessible (as denoted on the embark screen). The exception is dwarves, who always arrive. Caravans appear to enter the map from a random direction which does not coincide with the relative direction of the originating [[civilization]], and they may appear from different directions or z-levels each year. Caravans may leave without trading if it takes too long to reach the trade depot, and they cannot use stairs. Caravans will embark on their journey exactly one month after their arrival, whether they have succeeded in reaching the depot or not.

=== Wagons ===
[[Image:Depot alley.png|thumb|right|A depot in the fortress, with a narrow, trapped accessway.]]
[[Image:Depot accessible.png|thumb|right|Composite image of depot access screen. Strategically arranged walls and natural obstacles (boulders) force wagons to enter and exit the map immediately to the east of the depot.]]
All races except elves will send [[wagon]]s with their caravans, which have a much greater capacity for bringing foreign imports and accepting dwarven exports. Unfortunately, wagons require paths that are three tiles wide to pass. Wagons may enter the map in a location different from merchants with pack [[animals]], if the point the animals entered was inaccessible to the wagons. If wagons are unable to find an open path to your trade depot (or if you have not built a depot at all), they will bypass your site and you will only be able to trade for what is available on the pack animals.

Wagons cannot cross [[stair]]s or [[door]]s (even if the doors span an area ordinarily wide enough for the wagon to pass). Obstructing [[boulder]]s must be smoothed ( {{K|d}} - {{K|s}} ), and [[tree]]s must be cut down ( {{K|d}} - {{K|t}} ). [[Shrub]]s do not obstruct wagons, and neither do [[ramp]]s, [[bridge]]s, [[road]]s, or [[floor]] tiles. (However, ramps covered by a [[hatch]] do obstruct.) The impassable tiles of [[workshop]]s and other buildings will obstruct, but the passable tiles of those buildings will not. Any buildings which are normally passable, including [[restraint]]s and [[trap]]s, will not obstruct wagons either, nor will creatures, whether restrained or free.

To keep trees from growing and blocking a path, you should build roads, bridges, or floor tiles over any [[soil]] tiles that make up part of the path. Ramps must be used to adjust [[z-level]] elevation. A wagon can't go directly from a ramp to a bridge, there must be floor tiles in between.

After a trade depot is built, you can use {{K|D}} to check wagon accessibility. The display is somewhat misleading: tiles marked in green mean a wagon can ''fit'' in that space, not that it can necessarily reach it from the edge of the map. Further, the green {{Raw Tile|W|{{COLOR:2:0:1}}|{{COLOR:2:0:0}}}}s only represent where the ''center'' of the wagon can fit -- so a three-tile wide path, which can fit a wagon, will only show up as one-tile wide line of {{Raw Tile|W|{{COLOR:2:0:1}}|{{COLOR:2:0:0}}}}s. When the route they would take goes over hills (ramps), it's hard to eye whether it is continuous all the way to the edge of the map, so be sure you see the words "depot accessible" on the depot access screen.

As long as you have a three-tile wide path to the depot that reaches ''any'' edge of the map, wagons will be able to reach the depot. If there is only one path they can take, they will take that path. You can force them to enter and exit the map in an exact spot -- preferably very near your depot -- by erecting walls or digging channels so that all paths but the one you want them to take are blocked.

=== Liaisons ===
[[Liaison]]s may be sent with caravans to speak to important dwarves. They will allow you to choose the type of items that your fortress is interested in, and will focus on bringing more of that kind of item on the next caravan (however those items will also be more expensive). They will also present you with a list of the items they're willing to pay more for, which will be effective upon their next arrival.

Trade agreements can be viewed at a later time through the Civilization menu ({{k|c}}). These trade agreements are cleared when a liason of the corresponding civilization enters the screen, so they are generally not accessible after the caravan has arrived.

=== Races ===
The following races send caravans.

==== [[Dwarves]] ====
The dwarven caravan:
* arrives in [[Calendar|autumn]].
* employs wagons to bring more goods.
* typically carries [[food]], [[alcohol|booze]], [[leather]], and supplies. Dwarves alone may carry [[steel]] and steel goods.
* tends to be well guarded.
* sends a liaison who will speak with the [[Expedition leader]] (or [[Mayor]]) to negotiate prices.
* is responsible for the number of immigrants received (when the caravan escapes alive).
* will not cause sieges when repeatedly destroyed or lost.
* is the only caravan to arrive during a fortress' first year.
* always arrives regardless of embark location.
* cannot have its goods seized from the trade menu.

==== [[elf|Elves]] ====
[[Image:Evil_elves.png|thumb|400px|A typical elven caravan.]]

The elven caravan:
* arrives in [[Calendar|spring]].
* does not send wagons.
* typically carries [[cloth]], [[rope]], various above ground [[plants]] and their byproducts, [[log]]s, [[wood]]en [[craft]]s & [[weapon]]s, large-sized clothing and [[armor]], and may carry tame [[creatures]].
* carries more wood logs the smaller a fort's wood stockpile.
* tends to be unguarded.
* may send a diplomat who imposes a tree cutting quota.
* does not accept some items in trade.

Elven traders do not like to be offered any tree byproducts. Forbidden items include{{ver|0.28.181.40d}}:

* [[Wood]]en items, and items derived from wood (including [[tower-cap]] logs), such as [[charcoal]] and [[pearlash]]
* Clear and crystal [[glass]] (because [[pearlash]] is used in their creation)
* Items [[decoration|decorated]] with any of the above materials
* [[Obsidian]] shortswords (since they have wooden handles)
* [[Soap]] (made with [[ash]])

Offering or trading forbidden items will cause the caravan to refuse to trade any more that season and will leave immediately. Additionally you will be called uncouth, crude, and barbaric for suggesting it. Tragic incidence can befall name callers which if repeated can lead to [[siege|interesting times]] and even great [[fun]]!

However, [[stone]] and [[metal]] items, even when [[charcoal]] is used in production, are acceptable. Items made from [[silk]] are acceptable, as are all non-wooden plant-derived products such as [[cloth]] and [[thread]]. Different from previous versions, items made of bone and shell are acceptable. You can also transport your goods to the [[trade depot]] in a wooden [[bin]], as long as you do not try to sell the bin. Living animals are acceptable, as long as the [[cage]] or [[trap]] is not made of [[wood]].

Be especially careful with reselling items from other caravans, as decorated items made out of a non-living material may include decorative materials that were made of living materials. All items that elven caravans sell are also unacceptable to sell back to elves, as the dwarves have no means of proving that they were made in an "elf kosher" way — and all dwarves know that elves have terrible memory.

==== [[Human]]s ====
The human caravan:
* arrives in [[Calendar|summer]].
* employs wagons to bring more goods.
* typically carries a very large quantity and variety of goods.
* tends to be moderately guarded.
* sends a liaison who will speak with the broker to negotiate prices.

==== [[Goblin]]s ====
A goblin caravan may arrive if your civilization is at peace with the goblins.

The goblin caravan:
*does not send wagons
*tends to be unguarded
*brings mostly food and cloth
*does not send a liaison or a guild representative
*does not make import/export agreements

=== Destruction ===
If caravans are destroyed (intentionally or unintentionally), the items may remain for use. Traders caught in a [[cave-in]] will flee as if they were attacked but will leave all the items dropped by the caravan behind. Pack animals carrying items are affected just like a normal tamed [[mule]] and must be killed in the cave-in for them to drop items on the ground. It is however much more likely that the pack animal(s) will only be stunned or rendered unconscious and flee shortly after recovering from the hit. Wagons will collapse if caught in a cave-in, leaving all that it was carrying on the ground as a result. Wagons can also be destroyed by [[ocean]] waves coming up onto the shore if you have settled in the appropriate area. The only difference between collapsing under waves or a cave-in is a higher probably of recovering items if the wagon is destroyed by a wave.

Repeated caravan destruction (intentional or unintentional) will strain diplomatic relations and may result in a [[siege]].

40d Talk:Cross-training

2009-03-02T22:18:29Z

Mjo625: Managing

=Pump operator notes=
Not sure the toughness note is really that important. The gym is just used for dwarven stat gains, so dwarves are beefy enough to excell at whatever you throw at them. It scarcely matters how well they pump, just so long as they get to Legendary to be reassigned to the military or something else. I've noticed gym graduates make fantastic hunters for example. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:47, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:Well, it makes pump-training far more effective for dwarves that are already tough: they can hit legendary in a season or two, where other dwarves take about a year. So if you have a finite number of dwarves you can spare for training, choose tough ones. Strong ones can be put in plate and made to spar, or turned into siege operators.

:Currently I'm training all my haulers, in shifts. Ones that gain toughness get to keep pumping until they're ready for the military. Strong ones get stone hauling duty. Everyone else gets food, item, or refuse duty.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:06, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:: I now give all my haulers the custom profession ''ROTC.'' --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 07:50, 8 November 2008 (EST)

=Dwarf Powered Mill notes=
Actually, it is better not to cook seeds. As seeds have quantity cap at 200 seeds for each plant, milling will not produce seeds after you hit the cap. It saves a visible amount of food hauler's work. [[User:Denspb|Denspb]] 02:58, 25 February 2009 (EST)

== Managing ==

Assigning a dwarf to manager may be even better than clerking. I had two useless dwarves. Assigned one to clerk, another to manager+broker. Disabled hauling jobs for the manager. I then went to the manager screen and queued up a full screen of "Make Soap x30." I chose soap because I don't even have an alchemist's workshop and I didn't want any jobs assigned to existing workshops and disrupting work flow. I lost track of how many times I had to go back in and cancel/re-issue the soap orders. The manager reached legendary while the clerk was still a pathetic high master. I didn't measure steps, but their offices and bedrooms were all very close together, should be around 5-10 steps difference for each dwarf to go get food/drink.

Other factors:
 -Clerk has a husband (no kids), manager is single
 -Clerk went on break at least once
 -Hauling was still enabled for the clerk, not sure if she did any jobs though
 -At the beginning, Clerk had no skills, Manager had Normal Skill Wood Carving (not much good on my treeless map)
 -Manager met with human diplomat and traded at depot during training

--[[User:Mjo625|Mjo625]] 17:18, 2 March 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Thought

2009-02-19T03:14:25Z

Mjo625: /* Likes to eat his favorite animal */

does a dwarf's [[preferences]] effect their thoughts? ie: will having a room made out of gold increase the happiness of a dwarf that loves gold more than a dwarf who loves copper? --[[User:Kingzilla|Kingzilla]] 16:50, 7 February 2008 (EST)

Yes. It's actually possible to get room value higher than 'royal' this way!--though it only applies to that dwarf. I had a mayor who liked iron, and her office went from 'Decent' to 'Opulent' simply by me installing a forge with an iron anvil in it. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 08:13, 6 November 2008 (EST)

What are the effects of marriage, or starting a grudge, or other additions in 176.38a? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 11:39, 20 February 2008 (EST)

== Layout ==

For the spoiler section, what about this layout rather than a large pre block?
{|
!colspan=2|Major events
|-
|is happy to be free
|align="right"|+####
|-
|is quite pleased with making an artifact
|align="right"|+####
|-
|was forced to eat a treasured pet to survive lately
|align="right"|-####
|-
|has suffered the travesty of art defacement
|align="right"|-####
|-
!colspan=2|Sleeping
|-
|colspan=2 align="center"|slept <place> recently
|-
|in the mud
|align="right"|-##
|-
|in the grass
|align="right"|-##
|-
|in the dirt
|align="right"|-##
|-
|on rocks
|align="right"|-#
|-
|on a rough cave floor
|align="right"|-#
|-
|on the floor
|align="right"|-#
|-
!colspan=2|Complaints
|-
|colspan=2 align=center|has <ailment> lately
|-
|complained of hunger
|align="right"|-#
|-
|complained of thirst
|align="right"|-#
|-
|been tired
|align="right"|-#
|-
|}
--[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 16:43, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

:Sounds great. I've been meaning to do it sometime but I don't have the time, with my poor, task-slowing wiki-code skills.
:Note that a lot of this is probably wrong. You'll need some way to state what version each has been verified for, which, unless 0x517A5D decides to give us some more/more recent values, will probably always be 0.23.130.23a --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:18, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

maybe this should be the place where "happiness" is redirected to since it's important because it'll keep dwarves from going on a rampage...i think...or something.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 08:48, 30 June 2008 (EDT)

"Was put off by a lesser's pretentious dining arrangements lately"
what does this mean?
someone ate at their dining table or they ate near someone lesser or ate some where poor?
--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 05:48, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

:They noticed that someone less important has a more expensive dining room. Probably your Count (or Baron, etc) thinking about your Mayor (or Count, etc) I'm guessing. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 11:18, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

== Complaining about job scarcity ==

What can I do to prevent this? It's irritating for my workers to complain. I like to make my dwarves haul various things to my stockpiles located everywhere. Do dwarves like working at where they work best at? Does sticking all my dwarves into the fortress during a seige cause this? I'm good to disable it somehow. I should probably stick this in the manager or mayor discussion as they handle the complaints. I could activate pump activating and stone detailing and stick some useless pumps and never ending tunnels and rooms that need smoothing in my fortress... I heard this is a major problem as it's difficult to know and find who wants to complain with all the interruptions. They also work outdoors which has space for my lovely stockpiles. Oh right and economy must also be a reason too...dwarves need to pay to eat and drink. -__- --[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 19:25, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

:It's due to the economy starting up, yes.
:My recommendation? Lever-pulling. It's a paid job (2☼/pull) and can (relatively) rapidly accumulate wealth for your otherwise unemployed dwarves. I'd setup a dozen or more levers and set the building profile to have only your (semi-)dedicated haulers allowed. The big problem, is that hauling doesn't pay anything, despite being one of the most important jobs for productivity.--[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:42, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

::If you have magma or a chasm, you could, say, banish siltstone from your domain through the stocks menu. Each disposal pays 20☼. This keeps the lower classes occupied, and you can either remove the 'dispose' command through the stocks menu, or you can turn off refuse hauling for important dwarves. --[[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 16:30, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
::And actually, at least as of 40d, hauling earns 1☼ per completed job. Which, of course, is not much in most cases since a single hauling job may take a Dwarf from one extreme of the map to the other over complicated paths. I've seen a comment or two from people who've generated extra income for their haulers by creating a few contrived stockpiles that are adjacent and feed from each other. So, you have a situation like the following:
1234567890
1234567890
1234567890
1234567890

:: Each is a stockpile of size 4 of some common material available nearby. Stockpile 0 takes from stockpile 9 which takes from stockpile 8 and so on. A hauler can go from one to the next in a step, gaining 1☼ each time. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:17, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

:: Just make a gym of screw pumps that are not connected to anything. Pumping pays pretty well and and it's easy to keep a lot of people occupied. Plus it trains fast, so you have beefy dwarves for other applications. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 15:10, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

== Losing an annoying acquaintance? ==

I lost two dwarves to imps within the first year. The first one made my metalsmith very sad: "Lost a friend to tragedy recently." I was afraid he was going to go crazy on me he was blinking with every down arrow possible. Then, the ranger died... and now he is "happier" and "He has lost an annoying acquaintance to tragedy recently."

Can anyone confirm if the losing of an annoyance makes a dwarf happier? --[[User:Corc|Corc]] 00:29, 7 July 2008 (EDT)
:I guess it would, dwarfs can defenatly "dislike" another dwarf in their relations.

== Question about thoughts ==

Can the same thoughts be a negative for certain dwarfs and a positive for others? For instance, one of my dwarfs was upset at having to give food/water. Yet that is listed as a positive thought, and most of the time it is a positive thing.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 16:56, 16 February 2009 (EST)
:I remember reading somewhere, possibly on the forums, that a dwarf's personality affects slightly what will give them unhappy/happy thoughts. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 18:06, 16 February 2009 (EST)

== Likes to eat his favorite animal ==

I have a mason in my new fort who both likes cats for their aloofness and, when possible, prefers to consume cat. It hasn't been an issue yet as I don't have any cats. I am curious though, if I did get him some cat meat to eat, would he receive both the "ate a wonderful meal" and "forced to eat a beloved creature" thoughts? --[[User:Mjo625|Mjo625]]

40d Talk:Thought

2009-02-19T03:04:22Z

Mjo625: Likes to eat his favorite animal

40d Talk:Clothing

2009-02-17T05:13:16Z

Mjo625: /* Clothing Value */

== masterpiece disentigration ==
Does masterpiece clothing disentigration still cause the maker to get all pissy over it?

If so, then it needs to be added to the article. --[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 13:31, 1 December 2007 (EST)

I've seen a few artifact articles of clothes in the game, but I have never seen anyone wear them. It could be that the game avoids this question. --[[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 20:24, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

== mass-produce? discard old clothes? ==
I would like to see something on which clothes players should mass-produce to keep their dwarves happy. I'm really not sure myself. [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 15:37, 6 December 2007 (EST)
: I second this request. Do dwarves automatically discard old clothes? It seems that my dwarves are buying new clothes at the stores, but then they still wear there old rotting trousers. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 11:01, 9 January 2008 (EST)
::In my experience they would discard old socks and boots, but will wear a dosen rotting dresses at once. Maybe some inv slots have limit on the clothes number, and some not? [[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:11, 9 January 2008 (EST)
: I recall a post on the forums that said it's best not to produce clothing at all, and start a dwarven nudist colony. That method is a simple solution that prevents unhappy thoughts from accumulating. I don't think it maximizes happiness, though, as Dwarves get happy thoughts from making satisfying acquisitions. [[User:Non|Non]] 03:50, 5 February 2008 (EST)
:: No good idea. Not having clothes gives an unhappy thought for every separate piece of clothes missing. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 16:00, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:::not so. dwarves get(used to, removed this version) an unhappy thought for LOSING each piece of clothing, but once its gone(or if they started with none) there is no unhappy thought. they are perfectly fine and happy being naked, once the sadness of rotting clothes wears off --[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 18:30, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:::: I once had the thought "XY was embarrassed to have no shirt lately". cant swear if he had one before that thought or not, but dont rotting clothes give a different thought "emb. about...clothes rot away"? It still might be that he gets that thought only once. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 18:56, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Artifact Cave Spider Silk Thong ==

All right, given that you probably ''are'' going to make exotic underwear with cave spider silk... couldn't it at least be something that the dwarf who made it was going to ''wear'' rather than something which is rare for humans?

Oh well, when my clothier passes over I will have something fantastic to sell which is also very light I guess![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:47, 2 February 2008 (EST)

== Why bother? ==

Am I missing something? Is there any reason at all to provide new clothes for dwarfs? --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 09:27, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:You mean other than the fact that if old clothes start to rot the dwarf wearing said clothing gets an unhappy thought? I highly doubt that's been removed since the last version I was semi-familiar with. --[[User:BDR|BDR]] 13:52, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:: Ah. Well, I built a HUGE dining room. Its taken two years to fully smooth it, but now any dwarf who eats instantly becomes either ecstatic, happy, or, if they're whole family was killed and they had to sleep on the ground by the rotting corpses, they might just be content. Wow, writing that once again reminded me how totally R rated this game would be if it were 3d. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 16:04, 28 February 2008 (EST)
::BDR- it was taken out in the latest release because of problems. Once it works right, Toady said he was going to bring it back, but for the current version and immediate future, clothes are just a waste of effort.--[[User:Erom|Erom]] 16:36, 28 February 2008 (EST)
::: Here I have a massive clothing industry sitting idle, unemployed dyers starting fights, and dear Toady is off figuring out how many ribs dwarves have and whether skin can be flayed. My civilization yearns to be built on green silk cravats, not the torturer's arts. :) --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 17:17, 17 November 2008 (EST)
::Well, there's still the awesome value of having your dwarves swank around in fancy clothes. Plus adamantine clothes provide more protection than most pieces of more conventionally-manufactured plate-level armour if I'm not mistaken, which might prove worthwhile if you happen to strike adamantine and only have legendary clothiers.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 17:40, 17 November 2008 (EST)
::Hahaha, I have to note here that there is one very, very practical reason to give your dwarves clothes: If it's cold and they have body parts exposed, they will freeze, and the nerve damage from this is permanent. My glacial fortress suffers from chronic brainfreeze epidemics in babies and soldiers, and they don't even get to eat any ice cream. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:45, 17 November 2008 (EST)

== Frequency ratings ==
How common is common? It seems like every goblin invasion has had about 4 or 5 iron masks, about 50% of goblins, so it doesn't seem like they are that uncommon. Is this on the threshold of uncommon? Do others get this many masks? [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 07:11, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

:Well, I've been playing for a couple months, and I've never seen one. So, uh, maybe it's something to do with the specific culture of the goblin civilization that's attacking you. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 14:01, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

::That would make sense, I might start a new fortress else where, and see if I get as many. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 01:56, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

== Separating ==

Is there anyway to separate dwarf-sized clothing from goblin & kobold sized clothing? I've been messing with my stockpiles, but can't seem to sort them out. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 10:14, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:I've been working under the assumption that the {{key|u}} usable and {{key|j}} unusable toggles on many of the stockpile pages provide this functionality. I ''think'' it works, but I generally don't really pay that much attention to such matters... --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 11:59, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
::Clothing appears to be sorted as a "finished good" though, which doesn't have those toggles. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:56, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

==Coats Anyone?==
I can't seem to make coats in the latest version (.40d) in either clothiers or leatherworkers, and I haven't seen a dwarf start with a coat in this version yet. Anyone know what's going on? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:36, 25 November 2008 (EST)

:I've had no problem with that in 40d. They wear coats when they arrive (unless they're wearing a robe instead), I can produce them, and they'll put on new coats if their coat or robe wears out.

:There used to be a note somewhere that not all forts/civs can produce the same clothing. Maybe that's what's at work?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:02, 25 November 2008 (EST)

::The possible types of clothing for civs are in the entity_default.txt file, and are selected for each individual civ (or site, even, not sure) in that 'finalizing uniforms' step near the end of world gen. I'm not sure if the climate of the civilization's cities has any effect on this determination, but they definitely will have a limited selection instead of being able to make anything on the entity_default list. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:39, 26 November 2008 (EST)

== Seperating Dwarves from Rotten Clothing ==
I noticed my dwarves' clothing was wearing out, and started using all that nice fabric I'd been buying from the elves for years to replace it. My dwarves don't seem to care all that much... Some of them have picked up a few new things(no economy) but none of them have ditched any of their old stuff. I have dwarves wandering around wearing three pairs of socks, two ruined, one not. I even tried marking stuff for dumping but they don't give a damn; maybe I don't have to if they don't, but it bugs me. How do I get rid of the ruined clothes? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:55, 10 December 2008 (EST)

:[[!!]]?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:48, 10 December 2008 (EST)
::Killing everyone with fire would destroy the clothing, yes. But would also kill everyone with fire. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 00:38, 12 December 2008 (EST)
:::Yeah, I know. But I enjoyed typing it all the same. ;-) --[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:24, 12 December 2008 (EST)

:Only way to do this is to mark their stuff for dumping. They'll then realize they're naked and will (eventually) go buy/obtain new clothes. I know exactly how you feel, my Captain of the Guard was getting negative thoughts from having her clothing fall apart and I kept wishing she'd just go replace her outfit. She was still ecstatic, but when a dwarf with maxed out stats that's a legendary Pump Operator, Wrestler, Marksdwarf, and Hammerdwarf gets negative thoughts, I get worried no matter what the circumstances are. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 13:43, 12 December 2008 (EST)
::Marking items owned by a dwarf for dumping does not cause them to dump the item. In fact, if the dwarf owns it you have no control over what they do with it. Similarly, they will ignore any attempts to forbid the item and continue wearing them. They will, however, put on new clothes over their rags, which should stop them from being naked when the old ones disintegrate. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:07, 12 December 2008 (EST)
::Interesting. This means the Hammerer, when he arrives, does not own his Hammer, since you can dump it. :) "Tool of the state" indeed. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 14:13, 19 December 2008 (EST)

:::Do they still get negative thoughts from wearing decaying clothing? I haven't seen any in 40d. I used to see such thoughts a lot back when I was heavy into the 2D version.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:43, 12 December 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Clothing

2009-02-17T05:09:39Z

Mjo625: Clothing Value