Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d Talk:Dwarf

2009-06-14T07:50:48Z

Namako:

I don't really see the point of those pictures, but that isn't a good enough reason to remove them. 
If you have any reasons for which the picture(s) should stay or should not stay, please give them. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:58, 4 November 2007 (EST)

:I believe that the pictures help visualize the things talked about in this article, for instance, the dwarven stature, the artifacts dwarves are said to make, and a little joke about managers. -- [[User:Bovinepro|Bovinepro]]

::The joke is just plain stupid and DF doesn't connect axes and dwarves at all.
::I suggest placing a smaller, possibly improved version of the picture directly in the article, and deleting the other two. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:39, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:::This entire article, barring the 3rd paragraph, has nothing to do with the game and should be tossed. --[[User:Moller|Moller]] 02:45, 6 November 2007 (EST)

::::I agree. I plan to rewrite it in the form of [[Human]] and [[Elf]]. The wiki can have some humour, but this doesn't fit the tone at all. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:22, 6 November 2007 (EST)

::::Done, a complete revamp. I considered removing the Mythology section too and just linking to the wikipedia article, but I suppose it doesn't hurt the article any. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 21:45, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Do dwarf chicks have beards?--[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 21:58, 13 November 2007 (EST)

:Usually, no. Unless you are talking about a hardcore mythology version in a very specific locale, like the example image you get if you follow the Wiki link. For DF, I don't think there ever been a fixed description, so it would be up to [[Toady One|Toady]] to decide in the end... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 23:20, 13 November 2007 (EST)

:Naturally. All dwarves have beards, according to Tolkien. This is a page for discussing the article, though, not for discussing dwarves in general. That kind of stuff is for the [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi forum]. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 23:27, 13 November 2007 (EST)
::It's not like Tolkien is an ultimate reference to anything... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 03:10, 14 November 2007 (EST)
:::Considering Tolkien defined the modern conception of dwarves as a separate race famed for their love of wealth and mining prowess, and he also created the plural dwarves as opposed to dwarfs, which would be the proper plural for non-'fantasy' dwarfs (genetic disease in a minority of humans - dwarfism), eg, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (who are actually just short people in early versions that even include dwarfs, not a different race, and its unclear when the characters Snow White lives with became miners - the Disney version certainly post-dates the Hobbit by about 6 years - and her housemates are originally non-dwarf robbers in early versions of the tale).
:::And you can't say that dwarves are solely a Norse Mythology-inspired race, as dwarfs and 'dark' elfs in Norse Mythology are indistinguishable, and both terms often used for the same characters. These characters are often mischevious but also reknowned for possession of valuable objects and strange knowledge, much like the Faerie of diluted Celtic mythology, and while Tolkien likely used them for inspiration, he did much of the creative work in establishing the modern view of dwarves (and elves for that matter). Its not even clear Norse dwarfs are subterranean, as while they live in the 'lower' worlds, Midgard is certainly not subterranean and Asgard is 'above' it, which means the lower worlds may easily have their own sky. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:36, 16 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::Are you perhaps confusing Tolkien with [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Wagner Richard Wagner]?--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 21:53, 12 November 2008 (EST)
Has anyone tried editing dwarves so they can fly? I'm wondering how that would work in fortress mode. Cliffside fortress, anyone?--[[User:Smoking Gnu|Smoking Gnu]] 20:33, 23 November 2007 (EST)

I did some research on dwarfs and how long they can live without water. I reclaimed a fortress using 63 dwarfs and brought no alcohol with me, and at the site there was no liquid water. They all died nearly instantaneously after 2 months and 7 days [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 00:08, 1 December 2007 (EST)

== Life cycle ==

The article could be improved with some information about
*mating / babies / birth
*infancy
*childhood
*adulthood
*old age
Do each of these stages exist?
*Sleep cycles
Dwarves seem to hit the sack pretty much at the same time. Is it a seasonal thing or based on workload?
*marriage
Do dwarves get married or just "shack up"? If I reallocate the bedroom does only one leave or both of them?
*Death and grief

I was hoping to find some information about how long children stay children for. Being of the Nintendo Generation I have been suprised how long they stay kids for (anyone played SIMS? 3 days from birth to school!) but then I guess a year takes a long time in DF. Given "traditional" dwarves are meant to be long-lived does that mean the children will still be children in 30 game years time?
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:51, 4 February 2008 (EST)
:Dwarves dont marry or shack up. All marriage occurs "off stage" and the married couples then arrive at your fotress. [[children|Childhood]] lasts 12 years. When a dwarf dies, all of their friends and family get an unhappy thought. If their corpse decomposes outside of a coffin, they get an additional unhappy thought. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:27, 4 February 2008 (EST) '''addendum added by --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:11, 14 October 2008 (EDT):''' This is not true, or at least is no longer true. Single Dwarves will get married, but they need to be lovers for quite some time. 5 years is roughly what I've come to expect. Note that dwarves can and do break up after starting a relationship, so it's very unlikely that you'll ever see a wave of marriages. 
::Your edit just after this one was to [[child]]. I guess that article answers some of my questions, but I wouldn't have thought to look there. I will sort out how this article should link to this one.
::There ''are'' only three stages aren't there: [[child]], [[dwarf]] and ''deceased''?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:25, 5 February 2008 (EST)
::: I've had dwarves already living at my fortress get married; they have a wedding reception and everything. Also, sleep appears to be based on a hidden timer, but it's hard to tell. They do tend to go to sleep around the same time as each other, yet not at the same time, so there may be some kind of variation.[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 10:16, 2 April 2008 (EST)

==Object Data?==
Do dwarves even have object data? Should it be included? Cause I wan't to know their size.
—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] ([[User talk:Patarak|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Patarak|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
:Yes. First entry in creature standard.txt [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:47, 10 February 2008 (EST)

==Verify tag about throwing peebles==
I'm pretty sure the original writter of that sentence wanted to talk about the boulder throwing tantruming dwarves. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 09:57, 11 February 2008 (EST)

== Fortress ==

Anyone have a map of a typical game-generated fortress? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 15:23, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

== Lifespan ==
Is there any information on how long dwarves live? Because the Queen just died of old age (the fortress is around 11 years old and she came probably 6 years ago). I have a screenshot of the message, but I'm not sure where to put that kind of thing. --[[User:Namako|Namako]] 07:50, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Justice

2009-06-09T18:24:41Z

Namako:

== A cage for every man, woman and child! ==

One chain / restraint is needed for every 10 dwarves (but not parts thereof).
:I've not noticed such a rule in this version of DF. My Captain of the Guard(former sheriff) hasn't had a single unhappy thought about not having not enough restraints. Might it be, that in this version the thought is triggered, when all restraints are used up and the law enforcement doesn't have any place, where to put a criminal. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 01:43, 24 November 2007 (EST)

== Unnecessary? ==

Personally I never allocate the Sheriff or build a jail. The only crimes in my fortress are violations of work orders, and I'm not going to let my hardworking crafters sit in jail because some noble had a hissyfit because we didn't build platinum chairs on a map with no platinum. Now every time a work order expires, the noble gets an unhappy thought (so what, they live in a solid gold house), and the workers get ''happy thoughts'' for getting away with the "crime". [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 18:43, 6 March 2008 (EST)
: I guess you should pray you never get a [[Hammerer]] turning up then. Or pray that any arriving Hammerer meets an unfortunate end, due to an entirely unforseeable series of bizarre accidents... -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:46, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

Actually, I've had a hammerer for years. She never lifts a finger, just eats and wanders around. I assume a jail must exist for the hammerer's justice jobs to be created, or something. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 20:34, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

Hm. I've been trying to ignore Justice, but my nobles keep going insane, with the only negative thought I can see being "angered that nobody could be punished". This last time I hadn't even missed a mandate. They don't ''quite'' live in a solid gold house, but it's close. In my last fortress, after my third Duke arrived I started building chains; then I noticed dwarves were getting Hammered and dying for mandate failures. Which way is worse? Maybe I'll just set a low pop cap and not worry about nobles. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 19:49, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

:Possibly disregard. I spent a while narrowing down exactly when my latest noble was going insane, only to find out that it's [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html bug 777] and will be fixed in the next version. Now I just have to buy all the iron off the caravan. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 17:46, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

Just a minor update to clarify a few things. I'm still playing, and still have no jails, a full cadre of nobles, and a hammerer who does nothing. Looking at the thoughts page for my nobles, they're definitely getting (multiple) unhappy thoughts from all the work orders I'm ignoring and the punishments I'm failing to deliver. And sometimes they dip below ecstatic for this reason, briefly. However, they then go and eat some masterwork food and sleep on their masterwork bed, and get happy thoughts for these events, so they're soon back up to ecstatic. If you want to ignore justice, just make sure your nobles live in the lap of luxury, and it'll balance out. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 12:31, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

:Justice is actually worse than unnecessary if you don't have nobles freaking out about unpunished criminals. I've been running a fort where I kill the baron/ess + consort + DM + hammerer + tax collector every time they show up; they're around long enough to issue mandates, but not long enough to have them fail, nor to be worried about unpunished prisoners, nor would I care if they were. I have a mayor, and she does get "upset by the delayed punishment of a criminal", which the [[thought]] page says is -5 to happiness. '''However,''' the "criminals" themselves are "glad to have punishment delayed recently", which is a +20 thought!

:So by ignoring justice in a noble-free fortress, one dwarf gets slightly bugged while the rest of the fort is happier than ever. Sounds like a pretty good deal! It seems that so long as everyone is happy enough that you don't '''need''' them put away in jail, ignoring justice is actually a major net positive. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 20:23, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

== Eternal Prisoners? ==

My Captain of the Guard never seems to release the prisoners, and they just starve to death or go mad in their cages. Is there any way to get them out? (Fun fact: Currently the lazy ass is responsible for more deaths than goblins, elves, mining accidents and humans put together) While I'm here, I have more than enough cages, but sometimes he just decides to beat the living daylights out of criminals instead of imprisoning them. There is a hammerer, but I've never seen her do anything but stuff her face and start parties. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:44, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

The only solution i can propose is to remove the occupied cage or chain once the sentence is over. And while you're at it, why not try picking a new (happy) captian of the guard to see if it's not the result of your guard being crippled or retarded or something. [[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 02:25, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

==Beating==
Article says: the sheriff or fortress guard attack the dwarf unarmed for a short time - this punishment is used instead of imprisonment if the jail is full. But in my experience they do it with whatever weapon they have equipped, not unarmed. I won't believe, that my absolutely unskilled captain, who was assigned this duty after a minor lower spine injury, and who didn't have any military skill higher than dabbling, has mandled both legs and a shoulder of a prisoner unarmed... He was wielding a sword. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:55, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
:In fact the sheriff uses whatever he is holding in his hand. Same as with tantruming. My sheriff just killed a peasant using a *Dwarven Rum Barrel*. --[[User:Tobias|Tobias]] 09:15, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

==Waiting on injured criminals?==

My justice page lists thirty criminals, but only two have sentences listed -- one for hammerstrikes, one for imprisonment. The two dwarves with listed sentences are both injured. Are they holding up the whole justice process? Those two dwarves have spinal injuries and will never recover; any way to get the system moving again? --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 15:07, 2 September 2008 (EDT)
:To answer my own question: New offenders are added at the top of the list. So it appears that, until I find a solution, the older offenders are all safe from punishment due to the injured dwarves before them. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 18:00, 2 September 2008 (EDT)
::The ones without sentence are the ones, whose sentences has already expired--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:39, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

==Metal Chains are breakable==

[[Image:90f49e6c zincchainbroken.png|600px|thumb]]
I was under the impression that they were not breakable when the dwarf in question was tied to the chain. This Furnace Operator, though, seems to think otherwise. I think we should add a note about this. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:17, 7 January 2009 (EST)

I think he's destroying the building as a result of the tantrum. "Not breakable" doesn't mean they're invincible like constructions, but that a dwarf [i]tied[/i] to one cannot escape.

== Targets of Work Order Violations ==

How the hell do the nobles decide who gets punished for a work order violation?

I had one of my dwarves who was in the military since the beginning of time get punished for this, so it doesn't seem to be foistered on the dwarf most capable of completing the job or somesuch. Has anyone noticed a pattern or is it just totally random? [[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 02:32, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

== Export Mandates, Guards, and Beating To Death ==

Guards are a seriously bad idea. I'd hardly used them before my current fortress (usually leaving it to a lone sheriff) and they are currently legendary wrestlers and literally rip criminal's limbs off. The only way I can get rid of them at this point is to lock them in their rooms and contrive their death.

Also I've noticed that if a noble puts on an export mandate AFTER you've traded away all those scepters they love so much (but before the traders leave the map), you'll get an enormous (1/item maybe?) number of crimes assigned to an exciting cross section of your fortress from one guy. Some of them get multiple crimes, too. --[[User:Namako|Namako]] 18:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Justice

2008-07-30T18:44:50Z

Namako: Eternal Prisoners?

40d:Siege

2008-07-25T18:24:20Z

Namako: /* Humans */

A '''siege''' is a special time in [[Fortress mode]] when an army attempts to attack and kill all of your [[dwarves]]. It is at this time you should activate your [[military]], keep civilians indoors, raise the [[drawbridge]]s and pray you have your defenses ready.

During a siege, the option on the main menu 'Abandon Fortress' changes to 'Succumb to the Invasion'.

A siege is not to be confused with other types of hostile encounters - if you are besieged you will ''know''. If you are unsure, you are ''not'' under siege. When you receive a siege, you receive a full-screen message "a vile force of darkness has arrived!" and the top of the screen reads "SIEGE" in yellow and red. Siegers are immediately visible at the map edge, whereas [[ambush]]ers or [[thief|thieves]] are not.

== Siegers ==
=== Goblins ===
[[Goblins]] will send kidnappers and ambushers once your fort's population or [[wealth]] reaches a certain amount, and will start sieging once your population reaches 80. Sieges will increase in intensity depending only on how many previous sieges you have survived - a population higher than 80 does not increase the number of goblin siegers.

They arrive in squads of about 15 goblins each, frequently led by individual goblin weapon masters (or even evil [[human]] mercenaries) and sometimes mounted on [[beak dog]]s, and occasionally accompanied by up to 3 squads of 5-8 [[troll]]s. They frequently are split into separate squads placed on different map edges. The first siege you see with a given fort might consist of as little as a single unmounted squad with no trolls, but the goblin forces will escalate in size as the game progresses. Later on you may be seeing 100 or more goblins show up in a single siege, all mounted, with 10 to 20 trolls.

Trolls are the goblin "siege engines". They are faster than beak dogs, and will make for [[buildings]] and start demolishing. Locked [[door]]s will keep the goblins out, but can be demolished by trolls.

If you deflect enough sieges, the ruler of the goblin nation may lead a squad. He's equipped with extra-good quality equipment.

If you want to challenge yourself you can increase the number of sieges by removing the [BABYSNATCHER] tag from the goblins, in the <tt>raw/objects/entity_default.txt</tt> file.

=== Humans ===
Humans can siege your fortress, although the trigger is unclear. On entry to the map they will set up a Campfire and wait there for a while, making attacks of opportunity on dwarves that come to the surface, before taking the final headlong charge in much the same way as goblins.

The message is slightly different from the goblin sieges: "The enemy have come and are laying siege to the fortress".

They may be mounted on horses.

They may eventually send a diplomat, who will parley with your leader and offer a peace treaty.

=== Elves ===
There have been no reports of elves sieging in the current version.{{Verify}}

=== Kobolds ===
Similar to [[Goblins]], [[Kobolds]] will first send thieves dependent on your fort's population or, rather, [[wealth]]. Kobold archers will begin to arrive if the Kobold thieves successfully steal any items - the number of successive archers and thieves who arrive will depend on how many items were stolen previously.

Kobold archers tend not to directly siege your fort, but prefer to pick off individual Dwarves who may be working in the surrounding wilderness. They will leave once their [[arrow]]s have been exhausted.

== Defending against a Siege ==

===Active Defense===
*Put your entire [[military]] on duty. With luck, most of them are not sleeping, eating, or drinking. If a [[squad]] leader is doing anything of that sort, replace him with a more alert squad member (the squad always clusters about the leader. If the leader's eating, the squad will guard the table). Place melee units at major choke points, so they can meet the enemy head on, but try to keep them out of direct fire from enemy missile users. Place your own [[marksdwarf|marksdwarves]] where they can rain death down on the enemies. They can also shoot from different Z levels, use this. (This is why you build [[fortifications]].)

*[[War dog]]s are valuable, but shouldn't be the first line of defense, because the enemy bowmen will quickly take care of them. Assign them to your military dwarves, or [[cage]] them before the siege, and [[Release the Hounds!|release]] them via [[lever]]/[[pressure plate]] as the enemy is rounding a blind corner. They're also useful for clearing the field once the siege ends.

*[[Siege weapon]]s, [[catapult]]s and [[ballista]]e, can be effective during a siege, but can also be entirely useless. They don't have a wide field of fire, so you'll need to design your fortress ahead of time to funnel your attackers into the [[weapons]]' field of fire and then delay them with winding passages while in range. To use them effectively, you really need trained Siege Operators for the task, since siege weapons take up to three real-time minutes for inexperienced operators to load, and the weapons cannot be fired at a precise time; they will fire whenever the operator shows up. Fire early and often: siege operators are civilians, and will run away once the oncoming hordes get too close.

===Passive Defense===
*If you have no trust in your military's power, keep all the dwarves inside and draw the besiegers into corridors with [[traps]]. Stone-fall traps are cheap and easy, but work only once before needing to be reset; weapon traps require weapons (and ammunition, in the case of ranged weapon traps), but reload themselves after a few seconds, until their components eventually get stuck due to all the gore. A 10-square-long entry hall filled with weapon traps will break most [[goblin]] sieges without any help.

*A [[moat]] can provide a decent defense when combined with a drawbridge to either keep the goblins from entering, or to drop them right into the water. [[Magma]] may be substituted for far more lethal results. Even when not filled, a 1-tile wide [[channel]] is a fast and effective way of stopping besiegers or to guide them into areas you want.

== Civilians ==

Your dwarves will still attempt to do their jobs during a siege, including cutting down [[tree]]s or hauling in items and [[corpse]]s from outdoors. Dwarves will run from invaders, but only ''after'' getting within [[crossbow]]-range, so their self-preservation skills are lackluster when the enemy has ranged weapons, or moves more quickly than them. There are [[Help! My civilians keep running into combat!|several strategies]] to preserve your civilians' lives, none of them perfect.

==See also==
*[[Fortress defense]]
*[[Help! My civilians keep running into combat!]]

[[Category:World]]
[[Category:Military]]
[[Category:Fortress defense]]

40d Talk:Siege

2008-07-25T18:22:15Z

Namako: /* Human Sieges */

===Trigger?===
Just noticed that I got my first (Goblin) siege at 100000 wealth. Anyone else confirm that this is the trigger? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 00:06, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:I had my first goblin siege at about 600k wealth. They sieged me at 15 levels above ground level, where I had a stairway to my fortress. They loitered around for a season and left. [[User:Kaivosukeltaja|Kaivosukeltaja]] 07:31, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::Thanks. I removed my addition from the article. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:35, 9 November 2007 (EST)

I think part of the trigger is killing a Goblin. I'd captured several Goblin thieves, but it was only after I'd dispatched them that I was besieged. So, (wealth > certain amount) and (has killed Goblins) maybe? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 23:09, 12 November 2007 (EST)

Actually, according to Toady (http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000033), Goblins will start sieging now roughly around 80 dwarves and/or some odd amount of wealth.

:I had 3 goblin snatchers show up at a population of 40 dwarves and created wealth of 63,793 (v0.27.169.33g). --[[User:Frond|Frond]] 22:17, 16 January 2008 (EST)

I think that the trigger amount is off by a bit- I just received my first siege, by goblins, at 57 population and about 411,000 wealth. --[[User:Linktoreality|Linktoreality]] 04:58, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Troll squads ==

I had 3 troll squads of exactly 8 trolls in each during a siege. Had a goblin king that time but no beak dogs. Can it be that no beak dogs in goblin civ=better chance for trolls?
:I been sieged at least half a dozain time in my current fortress, and I've never encountered trolls or anything bigger than skilled goblins. In my latest siege, all the goblins are specialised in something but I have no trolls or wolves or whatever to show for. Any idea on this behavior? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:16, 26 November 2007 (EST)
::Apperently they haven't access to any chasm biome for trolls and to whatever biome for beak dogs.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:42, 26 November 2007 (EST)

== Mounts ==

Woe betide those who anger humans. I added a second human race with [BABYSNATCHER] instead of [SIEGER] for barbarian raiding action. When they sieged, every last one of them was riding a horse. When I approached the buggers kept running away and going all Parthian shot on me, too. It was pretty bad ass. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:23, 10 November 2007 (EST)

== Still bugged? ==

Are sieges still bugged in 33b? If someone knows for certain, could they add the version number to the statement in the article? Ta. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 19:52, 18 November 2007 (EST)

i just got siege and i think the bug is still there cause just redownloaded it for erroring reasons...the goblins just sit there and wait for something...
im wondering if (thanks to the bug) the goblins well just die of thirst or something?? or well just o away?

:Yup, still bugged. Toady needs to rewrite the siege AI, 'tis not a simple bug. Goblins will go away on their own after a while, but that beats all the fun. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 15:04, 21 November 2007 (EST)
::Some people suggested on the forum building siege engines near the golin groups and fire to them to death. I'm trying to do just that in my current game. Alternatively, I think there is a flag in the init file where you can disable sieges. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:33, 21 November 2007 (EST)
:Has anyone looked into changing the raws for the goblins to have them a similar behavior to werewolves and other predatory creatures? They roam around the map looking for something to kill, and while they might not stay together in a squad, or move toward your base directly, at least they would do *something*... if it works. Any thoughts? --Gotthard 12:24, 30 November 2007 (EST)

:As of 33g I think they're still somewhat bugged. They will charge but if they find something to attack, it seems like their AI turns off and they stop on the spot. So I guess as long as you don't give them anything to attack on the way to your front gate, they will work fine. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 22:45, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Siege as a blockade ==

"A siege is a military blockade of a city or fortress with the intent of conquering by force or attrition, often accompanied by an assault. The term derives from the Latin word for "seat" or "sitting."[1] A siege occurs when an attacker encounters a city or fortress that refuses to surrender and cannot be easily taken by a frontal assault." --wikipedia

A siege isn't just a blind charge into your cage traps, either.
[[User:Moller|Moller]] 14:38, 3 December 2007 (EST)

==Best way to counter sieges?==
So far, the best way I've found to counter sieges is to create a line of traps all around the map. You can't build them just next to the border of the map, only 5 or 6 squares away from it... However, goblins still walks around a little and often hit the traps. It's hard to create enough casualties in this way to stop them, but they hardly ever leave without giving me free stuff and free kills. :)
Alternatively, setting up balistas or catapults in front of them and firing away is also very rewarding. Too bad it's almost impossible to do without forbidding your dwarves from fetching everything outside, which usually mean that they'll get in the way even if you manage to forbid everything in time. I wish there was a way to allow military dwarves to operate siege engines...--[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:47, 3 December 2007 (EST)

== Human Leader / Mercenary? ==

I got my third or fourth goblin siege in the current game, and they arrived with a Human Spearmaster in one of their squads. Anyone else got this? Is it worth mentioning in this page?
:Confirmed: third siege. One of invaders is Human Macelord. He is a best attraction at my zoo right now :). Think, i'll add this. Whoops... someone already has :)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:33, 16 January 2008 (EST)

== Nifty defense plan ==

On an unrelated note, I figured a pretty nifty way to kill a lot (or all) of a siege by making an outdoors gatehouse with marksdwarves on the battlements... except instead of making it face OUT, I make it face IN, so I let the enemy inside and they get totally annihilated, as they are shot as soon as they appear :)

Something like this:
<pre>
########
=bolts=#
######@#
+@# g
+@# g
g +@# <- goblins on ground floor come this way
+@# g
+@# g
######@# g
=bolts=#
########
</pre>
This work specially well again enemy shooters, they don't even get a chance to shoot back (and it seems it's nearly impossible to hit my dwarves on higher ground AND behind fortifications).

--[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 23:23, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I recently tried a system like that, where the entrance hall is two floors tall, and I have a marksdwarf barracks on the floor above. They shoot plenty of goblins, and of course I have about 60 stonefall traps there too. I watched laughing as 66% of the goblins thought "AAAH RUN AWAY" and they retreated like sissies :D --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 11:25, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Stealth Sieges ==

It seems that in the new version that sieges don't give announcements anymore. I was still getting my fortress together when one of my woodcutters was ambushed by 10 or so goblins. They proceeded to charge my fort and get killed by the merchants and dogs. Then like 30 seconds later the second wave appeared unannouced at my door. The merchants were in no shape to stand against them and the dogs were all dead. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 15:31, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:This sounds more like an [[Ambush|ambush]] than a siege. I've had four seemingly seperate goblin ambush squads all assault my fortress at the same time (four seperate "An ambush! Curse them!"s), each of which was a lot more dangerous than my first siege! -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:00, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== quote from toady, december 27 ==
(so maybe parts of it changed)

"Humans and elves will come some time after they are angry enough at you.

Kobolds will start sending thieves once your pop hits 20 or you've traded a bit (value 500) or you've produced a bit more (value 5000). If they successfully steal objects, they'll come back with more thieves, and if they continue to be successful, they'll bring (buggy) archers. The power of the next attack is based only on how many objects were stolen during the last raid. They'll start sending archers if three or more objects are stolen.[]..they can send as many as 17 thieves and 36 archers, but this is incredibly unlikely. If the stolen object number is five or more, they'll start sending important historical figures.

Goblins start sending kidnappers when your population has hit 50 or you have traded a bit or produced a bit more (5x the kobold numbers). Once your population hits 80, they'll start to send more serious attacks instead of kidnappers on occasion. The numbers sent during the serious attacks depend only on how many attacks you've been through. If they have mounts or monsters(trolls?), they'll start using them on the second attack, with multiple monster packs on the third. Important historical figures also come with the third attack, but master weapon users can come on the second. Important kidnappers come on the second kidnapping attempt.

All of this will be obsolete once I get the armies working properly on the world map, though there will still have to be some artificial mechanism in place to stop early forts from being wiped out."

:Good, then I shall start war with the elves because there are no goblins.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 18:22, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

== Human Sieges ==

I am, right now in v0.28.181.39b, being besieged by about 14 humans, one of which is on a horse carrying a bow. "An enemy is laying siege" or some such came up instead of the usual "A vile force of darkness has arrived". Even stranger is that they built ''A Campfire'' and are just milling about around it. There is a clear path straight into the heart of my fortress. There is no sign of war on the civ screen. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 09:21, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
 It's even worse than that! They're actually doing siege tactics - they sit in their camp until someone goes outside, at which point they all set off to kill that poor sot. Then they return to camp. If it's not outside, they don't care. They also don't seem to be affected by any of my traps. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 11:52, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
:just wait until the campfire has burned down and then they will move to the fortress as the goblins do. It might take a while, so no need for hurry. I only had two human sieges in my current fortress until now, but they seem to increase in numbers as the goblins do.
:*first year: ~10 humans, not mounted, campfire
:*second year: ~20 humans, 2 squads, mounted. 1 squad with campfire, the second one just waited and had no campfire. After a while, they moved to the fortress, but not both squads at once.

:In my case (v0.28.181.39c), they were affected by my 2 weapon traps. At least at the second siege when they were mounted, during the first one when they had no horses, I had no traps, so I don't know if this has an effect.

:The text of the human siege is "The enemy have come and are laying siege to the fortress"

: In my fort the human guild representative died and once a caravan was slaughtered by an ambush.
:[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 18:24, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

::now in the 3rd year, a human diplomat arrived instead of the next siege and he offers the following options:
::''Peace is calling out to us. How do you respond?''
::Enter: ''I hear her voice. Let us stop this war.''
::Space: ''We will drown her out with the screams of your dying. Begone.''

::As I'm a beginner, as far as wikis are concerned, it would be nice if someone could update the article.
::[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:34, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
:::I've added it in, although I'm also a n00b at this wiki stuff, and kept forgetting important stuff. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:22, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

40d:Siege

2008-07-25T18:21:15Z

Namako: /* Humans */

A '''siege''' is a special time in [[Fortress mode]] when an army attempts to attack and kill all of your [[dwarves]]. It is at this time you should activate your [[military]], keep civilians indoors, raise the [[drawbridge]]s and pray you have your defenses ready.

During a siege, the option on the main menu 'Abandon Fortress' changes to 'Succumb to the Invasion'.

A siege is not to be confused with other types of hostile encounters - if you are besieged you will ''know''. If you are unsure, you are ''not'' under siege. When you receive a siege, you receive a full-screen message "a vile force of darkness has arrived!" and the top of the screen reads "SIEGE" in yellow and red. Siegers are immediately visible at the map edge, whereas [[ambush]]ers or [[thief|thieves]] are not.

== Siegers ==
=== Goblins ===
[[Goblins]] will send kidnappers and ambushers once your fort's population or [[wealth]] reaches a certain amount, and will start sieging once your population reaches 80. Sieges will increase in intensity depending only on how many previous sieges you have survived - a population higher than 80 does not increase the number of goblin siegers.

They arrive in squads of about 15 goblins each, frequently led by individual goblin weapon masters (or even evil [[human]] mercenaries) and sometimes mounted on [[beak dog]]s, and occasionally accompanied by up to 3 squads of 5-8 [[troll]]s. They frequently are split into separate squads placed on different map edges. The first siege you see with a given fort might consist of as little as a single unmounted squad with no trolls, but the goblin forces will escalate in size as the game progresses. Later on you may be seeing 100 or more goblins show up in a single siege, all mounted, with 10 to 20 trolls.

Trolls are the goblin "siege engines". They are faster than beak dogs, and will make for [[buildings]] and start demolishing. Locked [[door]]s will keep the goblins out, but can be demolished by trolls.

If you deflect enough sieges, the ruler of the goblin nation may lead a squad. He's equipped with extra-good quality equipment.

If you want to challenge yourself you can increase the number of sieges by removing the [BABYSNATCHER] tag from the goblins, in the <tt>raw/objects/entity_default.txt</tt> file.

=== Humans ===
Humans can siege your fortress, although the trigger is unclear. On entry to the map they will set up a Campfire and wait there for a while, making attacks of opportunity on dwarves that come to the surface, before taking the final headlong charge in much the same way as goblins. They may be mounted on horses.

=== Elves ===
There have been no reports of elves sieging in the current version.{{Verify}}

=== Kobolds ===
Similar to [[Goblins]], [[Kobolds]] will first send thieves dependent on your fort's population or, rather, [[wealth]]. Kobold archers will begin to arrive if the Kobold thieves successfully steal any items - the number of successive archers and thieves who arrive will depend on how many items were stolen previously.

Kobold archers tend not to directly siege your fort, but prefer to pick off individual Dwarves who may be working in the surrounding wilderness. They will leave once their [[arrow]]s have been exhausted.

== Defending against a Siege ==

===Active Defense===
*Put your entire [[military]] on duty. With luck, most of them are not sleeping, eating, or drinking. If a [[squad]] leader is doing anything of that sort, replace him with a more alert squad member (the squad always clusters about the leader. If the leader's eating, the squad will guard the table). Place melee units at major choke points, so they can meet the enemy head on, but try to keep them out of direct fire from enemy missile users. Place your own [[marksdwarf|marksdwarves]] where they can rain death down on the enemies. They can also shoot from different Z levels, use this. (This is why you build [[fortifications]].)

*[[War dog]]s are valuable, but shouldn't be the first line of defense, because the enemy bowmen will quickly take care of them. Assign them to your military dwarves, or [[cage]] them before the siege, and [[Release the Hounds!|release]] them via [[lever]]/[[pressure plate]] as the enemy is rounding a blind corner. They're also useful for clearing the field once the siege ends.

*[[Siege weapon]]s, [[catapult]]s and [[ballista]]e, can be effective during a siege, but can also be entirely useless. They don't have a wide field of fire, so you'll need to design your fortress ahead of time to funnel your attackers into the [[weapons]]' field of fire and then delay them with winding passages while in range. To use them effectively, you really need trained Siege Operators for the task, since siege weapons take up to three real-time minutes for inexperienced operators to load, and the weapons cannot be fired at a precise time; they will fire whenever the operator shows up. Fire early and often: siege operators are civilians, and will run away once the oncoming hordes get too close.

===Passive Defense===
*If you have no trust in your military's power, keep all the dwarves inside and draw the besiegers into corridors with [[traps]]. Stone-fall traps are cheap and easy, but work only once before needing to be reset; weapon traps require weapons (and ammunition, in the case of ranged weapon traps), but reload themselves after a few seconds, until their components eventually get stuck due to all the gore. A 10-square-long entry hall filled with weapon traps will break most [[goblin]] sieges without any help.

*A [[moat]] can provide a decent defense when combined with a drawbridge to either keep the goblins from entering, or to drop them right into the water. [[Magma]] may be substituted for far more lethal results. Even when not filled, a 1-tile wide [[channel]] is a fast and effective way of stopping besiegers or to guide them into areas you want.

== Civilians ==

Your dwarves will still attempt to do their jobs during a siege, including cutting down [[tree]]s or hauling in items and [[corpse]]s from outdoors. Dwarves will run from invaders, but only ''after'' getting within [[crossbow]]-range, so their self-preservation skills are lackluster when the enemy has ranged weapons, or moves more quickly than them. There are [[Help! My civilians keep running into combat!|several strategies]] to preserve your civilians' lives, none of them perfect.

==See also==
*[[Fortress defense]]
*[[Help! My civilians keep running into combat!]]

[[Category:World]]
[[Category:Military]]
[[Category:Fortress defense]]

40d:Siege

2008-07-25T18:20:55Z

Namako: /* Humans */

A '''siege''' is a special time in [[Fortress mode]] when an army attempts to attack and kill all of your [[dwarves]]. It is at this time you should activate your [[military]], keep civilians indoors, raise the [[drawbridge]]s and pray you have your defenses ready.

During a siege, the option on the main menu 'Abandon Fortress' changes to 'Succumb to the Invasion'.

A siege is not to be confused with other types of hostile encounters - if you are besieged you will ''know''. If you are unsure, you are ''not'' under siege. When you receive a siege, you receive a full-screen message "a vile force of darkness has arrived!" and the top of the screen reads "SIEGE" in yellow and red. Siegers are immediately visible at the map edge, whereas [[ambush]]ers or [[thief|thieves]] are not.

== Siegers ==
=== Goblins ===
[[Goblins]] will send kidnappers and ambushers once your fort's population or [[wealth]] reaches a certain amount, and will start sieging once your population reaches 80. Sieges will increase in intensity depending only on how many previous sieges you have survived - a population higher than 80 does not increase the number of goblin siegers.

They arrive in squads of about 15 goblins each, frequently led by individual goblin weapon masters (or even evil [[human]] mercenaries) and sometimes mounted on [[beak dog]]s, and occasionally accompanied by up to 3 squads of 5-8 [[troll]]s. They frequently are split into separate squads placed on different map edges. The first siege you see with a given fort might consist of as little as a single unmounted squad with no trolls, but the goblin forces will escalate in size as the game progresses. Later on you may be seeing 100 or more goblins show up in a single siege, all mounted, with 10 to 20 trolls.

Trolls are the goblin "siege engines". They are faster than beak dogs, and will make for [[buildings]] and start demolishing. Locked [[door]]s will keep the goblins out, but can be demolished by trolls.

If you deflect enough sieges, the ruler of the goblin nation may lead a squad. He's equipped with extra-good quality equipment.

If you want to challenge yourself you can increase the number of sieges by removing the [BABYSNATCHER] tag from the goblins, in the <tt>raw/objects/entity_default.txt</tt> file.

=== Humans ===
Humans can siege your fortress {{version|0.28.181.39e}}, although the trigger is unclear. On entry to the map they will set up a Campfire and wait there for a while, making attacks of opportunity on dwarves that come to the surface, before taking the final headlong charge in much the same way as goblins. They may be mounted on horses.

=== Elves ===
There have been no reports of elves sieging in the current version.{{Verify}}

=== Kobolds ===
Similar to [[Goblins]], [[Kobolds]] will first send thieves dependent on your fort's population or, rather, [[wealth]]. Kobold archers will begin to arrive if the Kobold thieves successfully steal any items - the number of successive archers and thieves who arrive will depend on how many items were stolen previously.

Kobold archers tend not to directly siege your fort, but prefer to pick off individual Dwarves who may be working in the surrounding wilderness. They will leave once their [[arrow]]s have been exhausted.

== Defending against a Siege ==

===Active Defense===
*Put your entire [[military]] on duty. With luck, most of them are not sleeping, eating, or drinking. If a [[squad]] leader is doing anything of that sort, replace him with a more alert squad member (the squad always clusters about the leader. If the leader's eating, the squad will guard the table). Place melee units at major choke points, so they can meet the enemy head on, but try to keep them out of direct fire from enemy missile users. Place your own [[marksdwarf|marksdwarves]] where they can rain death down on the enemies. They can also shoot from different Z levels, use this. (This is why you build [[fortifications]].)

*[[War dog]]s are valuable, but shouldn't be the first line of defense, because the enemy bowmen will quickly take care of them. Assign them to your military dwarves, or [[cage]] them before the siege, and [[Release the Hounds!|release]] them via [[lever]]/[[pressure plate]] as the enemy is rounding a blind corner. They're also useful for clearing the field once the siege ends.

*[[Siege weapon]]s, [[catapult]]s and [[ballista]]e, can be effective during a siege, but can also be entirely useless. They don't have a wide field of fire, so you'll need to design your fortress ahead of time to funnel your attackers into the [[weapons]]' field of fire and then delay them with winding passages while in range. To use them effectively, you really need trained Siege Operators for the task, since siege weapons take up to three real-time minutes for inexperienced operators to load, and the weapons cannot be fired at a precise time; they will fire whenever the operator shows up. Fire early and often: siege operators are civilians, and will run away once the oncoming hordes get too close.

===Passive Defense===
*If you have no trust in your military's power, keep all the dwarves inside and draw the besiegers into corridors with [[traps]]. Stone-fall traps are cheap and easy, but work only once before needing to be reset; weapon traps require weapons (and ammunition, in the case of ranged weapon traps), but reload themselves after a few seconds, until their components eventually get stuck due to all the gore. A 10-square-long entry hall filled with weapon traps will break most [[goblin]] sieges without any help.

*A [[moat]] can provide a decent defense when combined with a drawbridge to either keep the goblins from entering, or to drop them right into the water. [[Magma]] may be substituted for far more lethal results. Even when not filled, a 1-tile wide [[channel]] is a fast and effective way of stopping besiegers or to guide them into areas you want.

== Civilians ==

Your dwarves will still attempt to do their jobs during a siege, including cutting down [[tree]]s or hauling in items and [[corpse]]s from outdoors. Dwarves will run from invaders, but only ''after'' getting within [[crossbow]]-range, so their self-preservation skills are lackluster when the enemy has ranged weapons, or moves more quickly than them. There are [[Help! My civilians keep running into combat!|several strategies]] to preserve your civilians' lives, none of them perfect.

==See also==
*[[Fortress defense]]
*[[Help! My civilians keep running into combat!]]

[[Category:World]]
[[Category:Military]]
[[Category:Fortress defense]]

40d Talk:Elf

2008-07-25T18:09:09Z

Namako: /* Elven Ambushes */

==Trading==
I have successfuly traded them Silk items in 0.27.169.32a--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 00:01, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

:Thanks for testing it, I removed the verify tag. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:43, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I have to wonder why elves wouldn't accept anything made out of wood, when all they want to trade me is animals in wooden cages, and alcohol in wooden barrels and bows and bolts made out of wood...you know what, almost everything they wanted to trade me was made from wood... --[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 01:32, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

:It's because the elves ask nicely when they take wood from a tree. Dwarves go out and TAKE IT!--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 14:38, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I accidentally tried to trade a wooden bucket with them. The elves scolded me, but still allowed me to trade my stone mugs and scepters. They don't leave straight away anymore.--[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 01:44, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:Ah, I'm glad they're more forgiving now. Fixed. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:14, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::They may rather be bugged now. There is a bug report that offering them something they don't like will make their mood maximally happy. --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 14:14, 19 November 2007 (EST)

:::Elfs are stupid. I traded some stone crafts for some of their wooden cages, and then i tryed to trade those same wooden cages back and they get angry at me for killing trees! [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 12:09, 1 December 2007 (EST)

What about flours, syrups and the like? Food? The DO buy prepared meals.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:32, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

I've noticed something new which may just be a coincidence - As I scale back my harvesting of wood from local sources (outside) the elves bring me a larger quantity of wood to trade. If I start chopping trees down for roads, etc. then they bring me less. Anyone else notice this? --[[User:Termitehead|Termitehead]] 08:49, 6 May 2008 (CST)

== Fortress in Elf Territory ==

I set one up for fun, and so far (1st winter) there's been no effect. The weirdest part is the large number of named trees; I've avoided cutting them down, and the elves haven't bothered me. I've had hunters chase and kill deer right in their midst with no ill effect as well -- it remains to be seen what happens if he misses the deer and hits an elf, though. Will report back when I find something interesting. [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:53, 12 November 2007 (EST)

==Pissed-off the elves...==
They seem to be kinda wussy, considering that I confiscated all of their trade caravan's goods (3k in rope reed cloth of various colors and a little bit of alcohol and seeds) and I expected a siege (my fort is in a boring area, and losing is fun) but they won't attack me. I took their junk a season or two ago. When and how will they attack? --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 19:22, 27 November 2007 (EST)

:Elves are wusses now. It's not even known if non-evil races still siege, much less treehugging wusses like elves. -[[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 01:09, 28 November 2007 (EST)

::[[Siege]]s from non-evil races have been disabled for now. They'll be back once the war arc is complete. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 15:10, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

==Elves bringing corpses==
The elves usually bring an animal or two in cages to trade, but many times that bring cages full of corpses... It's either all alive, or all corpses. Maybe the animals died in transit? Anybody else have this happen to them?--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 22:11, 25 December 2007 (EST)

: "It's not dead, it's resting". Er, the humans do this to me too. Pretty sure it's on the known bug list. [[User:Acama|Acama]] 02:17, 30 December 2007 (EST)

:I'm rather certain that if you're in a climate that you can die from exposure, that this is what happens. Have you gotten a shipment of live animals and a shipment of dead ones while at the same site? If not, then this is almost certainly the case. If so, it's possibly a function of a random number and perhaps the extremeness of the climate. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:11, 30 December 2007 (EST)

::I seem to recall it being stated that this was due to the caravan passing THROUGH climates where you can die of exposure on the way to your fortress. If the path a civ needs to take runs through freezing or scorching climates, the elves don't give the animals proper temperature care and they die. In contrast, the elves seem to make it through just fine--who knows, maybe the code is slightly different for caravan entities and separate creatures that happen to be carried along with the caravan. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:03, 10 January 2008 (EST)

:I actually prefer this method. I like to trap stuff myself so it makes the cages much cheaper, and the corpse can still be butchered for meat, bones, fat, and skulls. Your butcher will grab the entire cage and take it to the butcher's shop to empty it. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 11:20, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Elves and Animals ==

Doing some testing with using Elves in fortress mode, it seems that they will NOT be attacked by animals. Do you think we might go as far as to write in this page that [NATURAL]creatures will not attack elves? [[User:Zonk|Zonk]] 11:57, 9 January 2008 (EST)

== Elven warnings ==

The elves just warned me about cutting too many trees... I didn't realize that was still in. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 17:23, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== Elven traders ==

I have read that if the human caravans are attacked too many times, that the humans will wage war on you. I have also read that if you cut down too many trees, the elves will wage war on you. But if you let the elven traders die, will they also wage war on you? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 22:14, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

:Don't think so, elves got ambushed by gobbies one year and I did nothing to help them. Accidentally saved one of the traders, though, but he starved to death. --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 19:17, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

==Blood Covering?==

I have sold some items with blood covering with no negative effects... can anyone confirm if it's true or not? [[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:55, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

I cannot say firsthand, but I've heard in the forums and, I think, elsewhere in the Wiki that blood covering angers the elves.--[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 23:24, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

== Speaking with Halfmen ==

What exactly is the tag that lets you speak with snakemen, ratmen, etcetera? I haven't been able to figure it out as of yet, and I want to add it to a creature I'm making.

In addition, adding the [AT_PEACE_WITH_WILDLIFE] tag didn't stop wolves and bears from ambushing and attacking me; so judging from this that is not the tag that makes them 'immune' to attacks; either that, or the wolves/bears and other large predators ignore that tag. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 15:59, 14 May 2008 (EDT) (Edited later due to forgetting to add nametag)

== Elves as of .39c ==

I feel the Elves went under a pretty big overhaul in the latest version. They've turned into tree huggers who do little else but complain, to zerging cannibals who dominate worlds when given enough time. Also little things, like Elves regrowing trees around captured sites, in addition to the aforementioned personality changes, may warrant it's own section, and/or editing.

== Elven Ambushes ==

While they may not seige, They do preform Ambushes.

And I noticed something quite strange...

They ambushed with Mounts. I saw a swarm of Unicorns heading torwards my location. There where no unicorns on my map, so I sent my military to meet them, and when battle was engaged, it said "An Ambush!" And, for each Unicorn, there was also an elf (on the same square)

I'm not sure where to put this in the article though. I've been ambushed by non-mounted elves several times as well. Maybe a new section "Amubsh/Seige habits?"

:I've seen Elves ambush on unicorns too (version 0.28.181.39e), and they had no qualms about slaughtering the puppies I had tied to chains outside -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:09, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Unicorn

2008-07-25T18:06:49Z

Namako: Elves and Unicorns

I think the opening paragraph for this, and other creatures, should describe what the unicorn looks like, their demeanor, and where they are found. The current paragraph refers to the old version of the game. Advice on how players should handle creatures hunt/ignore/barricade) is more useful to readers of the wiki. Does anyone agree? --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]

:It looks like a white U. There's a picture on the right. The places where it's found are there too. The main text goes into its demeanor (at least for adventure mode). Where does it reference the old version? Are you looking at the same page? [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 16:42, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

== Cage Escapes? ==

The creature data says "Benign" but I'm not sure. In a fortress, I had spammed a few cage traps around an area in which Unicorns once freely ran, and they kept running into them, so I had a nice fine stockpile of the useless things. However, they seemed to slip their cages somehow, because suddenly I had a half dozen Unicorns prancing around in my fort. Didn't seem hostile though, and some marksdwarves took care of it. Anyone else know if they typically escape cages? (wooden ones at least?)--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:13, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

:It may just be another "squad" of unicorns... they tend to spawn when all the other animals are killed / captured. Not only nicorn, but all commons animals in fact. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 16:27, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

== Elves and Unicorns ==

Elves ride unicorns when ambushing (version 0.28.181.39e, no mods). Not entirely sure if that should be noted here or elsewhere? -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:06, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Siege

2008-07-22T15:52:42Z

Namako: /* Human Sieges */

===Trigger?===
Just noticed that I got my first (Goblin) siege at 100000 wealth. Anyone else confirm that this is the trigger? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 00:06, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:I had my first goblin siege at about 600k wealth. They sieged me at 15 levels above ground level, where I had a stairway to my fortress. They loitered around for a season and left. [[User:Kaivosukeltaja|Kaivosukeltaja]] 07:31, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::Thanks. I removed my addition from the article. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:35, 9 November 2007 (EST)

I think part of the trigger is killing a Goblin. I'd captured several Goblin thieves, but it was only after I'd dispatched them that I was besieged. So, (wealth > certain amount) and (has killed Goblins) maybe? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 23:09, 12 November 2007 (EST)

Actually, according to Toady (http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000033), Goblins will start sieging now roughly around 80 dwarves and/or some odd amount of wealth.

:I had 3 goblin snatchers show up at a population of 40 dwarves and created wealth of 63,793 (v0.27.169.33g). --[[User:Frond|Frond]] 22:17, 16 January 2008 (EST)

I think that the trigger amount is off by a bit- I just received my first siege, by goblins, at 57 population and about 411,000 wealth. --[[User:Linktoreality|Linktoreality]] 04:58, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Troll squads ==

I had 3 troll squads of exactly 8 trolls in each during a siege. Had a goblin king that time but no beak dogs. Can it be that no beak dogs in goblin civ=better chance for trolls?
:I been sieged at least half a dozain time in my current fortress, and I've never encountered trolls or anything bigger than skilled goblins. In my latest siege, all the goblins are specialised in something but I have no trolls or wolves or whatever to show for. Any idea on this behavior? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:16, 26 November 2007 (EST)
::Apperently they haven't access to any chasm biome for trolls and to whatever biome for beak dogs.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:42, 26 November 2007 (EST)

== Mounts ==

Woe betide those who anger humans. I added a second human race with [BABYSNATCHER] instead of [SIEGER] for barbarian raiding action. When they sieged, every last one of them was riding a horse. When I approached the buggers kept running away and going all Parthian shot on me, too. It was pretty bad ass. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:23, 10 November 2007 (EST)

== Still bugged? ==

Are sieges still bugged in 33b? If someone knows for certain, could they add the version number to the statement in the article? Ta. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 19:52, 18 November 2007 (EST)

i just got siege and i think the bug is still there cause just redownloaded it for erroring reasons...the goblins just sit there and wait for something...
im wondering if (thanks to the bug) the goblins well just die of thirst or something?? or well just o away?

:Yup, still bugged. Toady needs to rewrite the siege AI, 'tis not a simple bug. Goblins will go away on their own after a while, but that beats all the fun. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 15:04, 21 November 2007 (EST)
::Some people suggested on the forum building siege engines near the golin groups and fire to them to death. I'm trying to do just that in my current game. Alternatively, I think there is a flag in the init file where you can disable sieges. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:33, 21 November 2007 (EST)
:Has anyone looked into changing the raws for the goblins to have them a similar behavior to werewolves and other predatory creatures? They roam around the map looking for something to kill, and while they might not stay together in a squad, or move toward your base directly, at least they would do *something*... if it works. Any thoughts? --Gotthard 12:24, 30 November 2007 (EST)

:As of 33g I think they're still somewhat bugged. They will charge but if they find something to attack, it seems like their AI turns off and they stop on the spot. So I guess as long as you don't give them anything to attack on the way to your front gate, they will work fine. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 22:45, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Siege as a blockade ==

"A siege is a military blockade of a city or fortress with the intent of conquering by force or attrition, often accompanied by an assault. The term derives from the Latin word for "seat" or "sitting."[1] A siege occurs when an attacker encounters a city or fortress that refuses to surrender and cannot be easily taken by a frontal assault." --wikipedia

A siege isn't just a blind charge into your cage traps, either.
[[User:Moller|Moller]] 14:38, 3 December 2007 (EST)

==Best way to counter sieges?==
So far, the best way I've found to counter sieges is to create a line of traps all around the map. You can't build them just next to the border of the map, only 5 or 6 squares away from it... However, goblins still walks around a little and often hit the traps. It's hard to create enough casualties in this way to stop them, but they hardly ever leave without giving me free stuff and free kills. :)
Alternatively, setting up balistas or catapults in front of them and firing away is also very rewarding. Too bad it's almost impossible to do without forbidding your dwarves from fetching everything outside, which usually mean that they'll get in the way even if you manage to forbid everything in time. I wish there was a way to allow military dwarves to operate siege engines...--[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:47, 3 December 2007 (EST)

== Human Leader / Mercenary? ==

I got my third or fourth goblin siege in the current game, and they arrived with a Human Spearmaster in one of their squads. Anyone else got this? Is it worth mentioning in this page?
:Confirmed: third siege. One of invaders is Human Macelord. He is a best attraction at my zoo right now :). Think, i'll add this. Whoops... someone already has :)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:33, 16 January 2008 (EST)

== Nifty defense plan ==

On an unrelated note, I figured a pretty nifty way to kill a lot (or all) of a siege by making an outdoors gatehouse with marksdwarves on the battlements... except instead of making it face OUT, I make it face IN, so I let the enemy inside and they get totally annihilated, as they are shot as soon as they appear :)

Something like this:
<pre>
########
=bolts=#
######@#
+@# g
+@# g
g +@# <- goblins on ground floor come this way
+@# g
+@# g
######@# g
=bolts=#
########
</pre>
This work specially well again enemy shooters, they don't even get a chance to shoot back (and it seems it's nearly impossible to hit my dwarves on higher ground AND behind fortifications).

--[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 23:23, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I recently tried a system like that, where the entrance hall is two floors tall, and I have a marksdwarf barracks on the floor above. They shoot plenty of goblins, and of course I have about 60 stonefall traps there too. I watched laughing as 66% of the goblins thought "AAAH RUN AWAY" and they retreated like sissies :D --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 11:25, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Stealth Sieges ==

It seems that in the new version that sieges don't give announcements anymore. I was still getting my fortress together when one of my woodcutters was ambushed by 10 or so goblins. They proceeded to charge my fort and get killed by the merchants and dogs. Then like 30 seconds later the second wave appeared unannouced at my door. The merchants were in no shape to stand against them and the dogs were all dead. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 15:31, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:This sounds more like an [[Ambush|ambush]] than a siege. I've had four seemingly seperate goblin ambush squads all assault my fortress at the same time (four seperate "An ambush! Curse them!"s), each of which was a lot more dangerous than my first siege! -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:00, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== quote from toady, december 27 ==
(so maybe parts of it changed)

"Humans and elves will come some time after they are angry enough at you.

Kobolds will start sending thieves once your pop hits 20 or you've traded a bit (value 500) or you've produced a bit more (value 5000). If they successfully steal objects, they'll come back with more thieves, and if they continue to be successful, they'll bring (buggy) archers. The power of the next attack is based only on how many objects were stolen during the last raid. They'll start sending archers if three or more objects are stolen.[]..they can send as many as 17 thieves and 36 archers, but this is incredibly unlikely. If the stolen object number is five or more, they'll start sending important historical figures.

Goblins start sending kidnappers when your population has hit 50 or you have traded a bit or produced a bit more (5x the kobold numbers). Once your population hits 80, they'll start to send more serious attacks instead of kidnappers on occasion. The numbers sent during the serious attacks depend only on how many attacks you've been through. If they have mounts or monsters(trolls?), they'll start using them on the second attack, with multiple monster packs on the third. Important historical figures also come with the third attack, but master weapon users can come on the second. Important kidnappers come on the second kidnapping attempt.

All of this will be obsolete once I get the armies working properly on the world map, though there will still have to be some artificial mechanism in place to stop early forts from being wiped out."

:Good, then I shall start war with the elves because there are no goblins.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 18:22, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

== Human Sieges ==

I am, right now in v0.28.181.39b, being besieged by about 14 humans, one of which is on a horse carrying a bow. "An enemy is laying siege" or some such came up instead of the usual "A vile force of darkness has arrived". Even stranger is that they built ''A Campfire'' and are just milling about around it. There is a clear path straight into the heart of my fortress. There is no sign of war on the civ screen. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 09:21, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
 It's even worse than that! They're actually doing siege tactics - they sit in their camp until someone goes outside, at which point they all set off to kill that poor sot. Then they return to camp. If it's not outside, they don't care. They also don't seem to be affected by any of my traps. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 11:52, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Siege

2008-07-22T13:21:53Z

Namako: Human Sieges