Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d Talk:Magma

2008-10-03T21:28:32Z

OmegaX: Magma cooling?

Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the [[Magma smelter]] article, which state that using [[Fire-safe materials]] is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_rocks#Naming this article] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock#Mineralogical_classification this site] list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?
:It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.
::So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)

On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--[[User:SL|SL]] 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)
::I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this "cap", I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)

== Magmapool/pipe section ==
Zara, you recently added some info about all magma pipes having cliffs over them -- this is incorrect. I've played a very large number of magma pipe maps, and very often they are completely exposed to the air. I've also removed the line about them being "as small as two z-levels!", because it needs better phrasing. I may fix it later. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 22:39, 26 February 2008 (EST)

:in the meantime I had figured that out, too. But what is the difference between a magma pipe and a volcano, then? {{unsigned|Zara}}

::As far as I know, the distinction comes down to whether it reaches the surface. If so, some would then call it a volcano rather than a magma pipe. I believe that magma pipes which reach the surface (or volcanoes, if you will) are the only ones which actually show up on the embark map, while underground magma pipes and magma pools do not (unless you use the Regional Prospector tool). --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 23:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

:::No, similar to Moonanibe,I've played on several maps where, on the embark screen, the magma pipe was only visible using regional prospector. However, as soon as I took a look at the place, I found the magma partly (or completely) exposed on the surface. [[User:Zara|Zara]] 01:59, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

== Added new section ==
I added a section regarding "Built objects vs. Magma". I think it's absolutely vital we establish what does and doesn't melt in magma, in a clean list. There are quite a few things that could be added to that list (Constructed floors for one) so please, do add to it. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 17:31, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:Have you tested the bridges? I conjecture that all buildings and constructions without mechanisms are perfectly fine with magma contact. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:: The bridges part was cut from another section of the article and moved in there. Since it was already here, I assumed it was accurate. I haven't actually checked myself. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 16:54, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:I will verify bridges one way or the other. I'm pretty sure they cant melt, though. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:03, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::they dont melt, as they arent actually within the magma. that was copied over from the 2d wiki and nobody removed it -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 22:29, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::: I noticed you removed the line about bridges. It seems silly not to mention them at all, so I've written up a line about them working no matter what the material and stuck it in. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 23:12, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::::yea they should definately be mentioned, wasnt thinking when i removed it completely(recovering from a bad cold and brain is still a bit foggy) -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 00:49, 20 February 2008 (EST)
Tested. Non-magmaiproof bridges -over- magma are fine. Non-magma-proof submerged in magma will melt. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:39, 21 February 2008 (EST)
: Interesting. I'll edit the article to say as much. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 15:30, 21 February 2008 (EST)
This is what I've found: ANY Construction is safe from magma (even wooden ones. Walls, stairs, fortifications, etc). Any building is unaffected by magma if the magma doesn't occupy the same tile as the building. Example: a door is safe if it's closed, even if it's made of non-safe rock or wood. If you lock it open with a mechanism, or if it's jammed, then the magma interacts with the components, burning/melting them if they can't stand the heat. A pump made of wood or any other material is also safe, as long as the magma doesn't flow *over* it. Since the "out" side acts as a wall, if it's correctly isolated from the magma it won't get damaged and will pump the magma without any trouble. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 01:41, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Anyone clear on Vertical Bars in magma? I am attempting to keep imps and such from moving through my magma feeding tunnel and was curious if anyone had any good solutions to this problem. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 16:23, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

:I just use a bauxite wall grate, it works fine for me. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:02, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
:: Ah, thank you, I just wanted to be sure they didn't melt regardless --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 02:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 
I made a few tests with magma and buildings/constructions and I can confirm some known results and I can provide a few new aspects. Constructions (b->C) are magma safe (walls, floors, stairs, others not tested). No matter what the material is.
*<s>bridges build with bauxite *rocks* are not magma safe (bauxite mechanism or not)</s>
*bridges build with bauxite *blocks* are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
*bridges build with steel bars are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
Open test: bridge with blocks considered as not magma safe.
 [[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:14, 11 July 2008 (EDT)
::I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The bridges build with bauxite rocks were previously connected with a lever. Unfortunately the mechanism is not removed from the bridge when you remove the lever. Well, at least it seems that the rules for magma safe materials are valid for bridges. With one exception: raised bridges can contain any mechanism, only when magma flows over the bridge it is destroyed.--[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 13:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== Replenishing Magma ==

Since magma replenishes now, I've rewritten that snippet from the article. If I've missed something(a kind of magma not regenerating, though this always worked for me on several maps), feel free to correct things. --[[User:Romantic Warrior|Romantic Warrior]] 15:47, 18 February 2008 (EST).

I have a very good feeling that the replenishing magma is just "pressurized" magma. I haven't tested fully, but i have poured water over a magma pipe and re-mined it, and in that case the magma flow was upwards. --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 03:49, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Temperature ==

Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:I'm not sure how the temperature calculations are done, but I CAN tell you that magma will melt nearby ice. Check out http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-153-meltingwateronglacier to see it in action. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 15:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)

::It should be a flow, just like the magma itself. One of the other visible results is warm stone. The same can probably be said for water and damp stone as well. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)

==Flow?==

I have a magma pipe (pit) in my current fortress... I breached the pipe from the lowest level because of the diagonal bug when I discovered it, and it filled some long exploratory shafts. Since then, the top magma layer is down to 5/7 and 6/7 running all over the surface. After a little while, it's easy to see that magma act curiously: instead of bouncing from wall to wall like real water physics, in my game the 5/7 (the flow) seems to all move in the same direction at the same time. The direction change often, and seem to change randomly. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)

There is another way to stop a flow of magma that's moving through a tunnel. You can go one z-level higher, dig to a spot above the magma-filled tunnel, then build a channel above where the magma is flowing and assign it as a Pond Zone. So long as you have buckets and a viable Water Source zone, a dwarf will come along and drop water on the magma, instantly turning it into obsidian and blocking the tunnel. --[[User:Stromko]] January 6th, 2007
: I've tried this - it rarely works. Usually you just destroy 1/7 of the magma per bucket, along with the water from the bucket, and nothing turns to obsidian. You need to hit it with larger quantities of water at once to get reliable results. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:35, 6 January 2008 (EST)
::Actually, you have to hit it from two levels up. Just one won't do anything.--[[User:Demosthenes|Demosthenes]] 17:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)

==Criteria for Magma Buildings==

Is there a special condition that must be met before Magma Smelters/Forges/Furnaces and so on will appear on the build menus? I have a magma pit and some channels over it so that I can access it for magma, but I cannot build any magma-using buildings. - [[User:Confused Rat|Confused Rat]]

:Magma furnaces and forges need a hole somewhere on the ground where they are built. This is to allow the furnace/forge to take the heat from the magma as they are used. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:43, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:What he means is that the magma furnaces don't even appear in the build menu. This is because you haven't discovered magma through natural means. The only way this can happen is if you used reveal to find the magma. You'll have to use the [[Utilities#Enable_Magma_Buildings|Enable Magma Buildings]] utility to make them appear. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:03, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:Reclaimed fortresses may be bugged. If you reclaimed you fortress you probably can't do anything with it without 3rd party programs (like one mentioned above). Magma in [[pit]]s isn't enough to allow magma buildings. You need to discover true magma pipe and get pop-up informing about this. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Infinity Generators? ==

Because magma is currently a finite resource, would it be a good idea to add how to make an infinity generator as workarround untill Toady gives us some more of the stuff?—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Highlord Asehujiko|Highlord Asehujiko]] ([[User talk:Highlord Asehujiko|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Highlord Asehujiko|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
:Not on the main article as it would easily be considered cheating. In here, or the [[cheating]] article itself would be fine, the latter probably more appropriate as it could be applied to water as well for those scorching maps. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:16, 27 January 2008 (EST)
::Magma regenerates in most cases, which pretty much means it's infinite. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Lava vs. Magma ==

I hadn't noticed it until just now, but both Lava and Magma occur in the game. I haven't seen this fact referenced in the wiki. Magma is a fluid which occurs in Magma Pipes, and in areas directly connected to Magma Pipes. Lava appears to occur in disconnected areas. I'm not sure what happens if you reconnect. If you use {{k|k}} to view a square, you'll see either Magma or Lava depths given. I'm not clear on what difference there is between the two fluids. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

:There is none, just the name. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:30, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::both in df, and irl, molten rock in open air is called lava, while subterranean is called magma -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:40, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::: Ah, so magma which is ''Outside'' is lava. Cool. I guess my disjoint areas are all also outside :) I suppose we ought to mention this somewhere on the page? --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 19:19, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

== Magma vs puppy? ==

I have encountered an interesting glitch. I have 2 puppies and a kitten in magma that aren't dying, and yes I have temperature setting on. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-570-magmavspuppy

For those interested in trying to recreate it, I believe it has to do with designating the animal to slaughter while trying to throw it into a pit. A few of my dwarves were having pathing errors to try and slaughter them when I noticed the 3 invulnerable pests. After saving and reloading, the critters were insta-gibbed.
--[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 04:59, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Chasm Confusion ==

"The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores."

Magma, at least in my experience, has always been surrounded only by Obsidian, as a result you cannot get any kind of insight as to the surrounding minerals, this differs from a chasm where the veins coming up to a chasm are directly reflected in the walls.

--[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 04:18, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:volcanoes and magmapipes can form large "chasms" above them, though it depends on how rocky the map is

== gruesome accident in reall really older 2d version ==

beware wooden floodgates
not only do they burn(as I planned)
but i scattered magma all around the room
it rolled around quickly in all directions, flooding the tunnels, burning miners, smelters, war dogs and puppies alike without remorse.
it has thus far filled the entire message screen with " someone" or "something" has burned to death
it appears to gain mass from creeping down hallways! oh god...
60 deaths, at least 25 dwarves and 15 puppies22:08, 28 July 2008 (EDT)[[User:Eerr|Eerr]]

== Magma cooling? ==

Ive noticed at a 1/7 depth, the magma seems to cool and go away. v40d --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:28, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:King consort

2008-10-03T21:05:58Z

OmegaX:

In my only king-worthy fort, my king did not come with a consort. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:05, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:King consort

2008-10-03T21:05:39Z

OmegaX: New page: In my only king-worthy fort, my king did not come with a consort.

In my only king-worthy fort, my king did not come with a consort.

40d Talk:Siege

2008-09-22T06:13:34Z

OmegaX: /* Human Sieges */

===Trigger?===
Just noticed that I got my first (Goblin) siege at 100000 wealth. Anyone else confirm that this is the trigger? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 00:06, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:I had my first goblin siege at about 600k wealth. They sieged me at 15 levels above ground level, where I had a stairway to my fortress. They loitered around for a season and left. [[User:Kaivosukeltaja|Kaivosukeltaja]] 07:31, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::Thanks. I removed my addition from the article. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:35, 9 November 2007 (EST)

I think part of the trigger is killing a Goblin. I'd captured several Goblin thieves, but it was only after I'd dispatched them that I was besieged. So, (wealth > certain amount) and (has killed Goblins) maybe? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 23:09, 12 November 2007 (EST)

Actually, according to Toady (http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000033), Goblins will start sieging now roughly around 80 dwarves and/or some odd amount of wealth.

:I had 3 goblin snatchers show up at a population of 40 dwarves and created wealth of 63,793 (v0.27.169.33g). --[[User:Frond|Frond]] 22:17, 16 January 2008 (EST)

I think that the trigger amount is off by a bit- I just received my first siege, by goblins, at 57 population and about 411,000 wealth. --[[User:Linktoreality|Linktoreality]] 04:58, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Troll squads ==

I had 3 troll squads of exactly 8 trolls in each during a siege. Had a goblin king that time but no beak dogs. Can it be that no beak dogs in goblin civ=better chance for trolls?
:I been sieged at least half a dozain time in my current fortress, and I've never encountered trolls or anything bigger than skilled goblins. In my latest siege, all the goblins are specialised in something but I have no trolls or wolves or whatever to show for. Any idea on this behavior? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:16, 26 November 2007 (EST)
::Apperently they haven't access to any chasm biome for trolls and to whatever biome for beak dogs.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:42, 26 November 2007 (EST)

== Mounts ==

Woe betide those who anger humans. I added a second human race with [BABYSNATCHER] instead of [SIEGER] for barbarian raiding action. When they sieged, every last one of them was riding a horse. When I approached the buggers kept running away and going all Parthian shot on me, too. It was pretty bad ass. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:23, 10 November 2007 (EST)

== Still bugged? ==

Are sieges still bugged in 33b? If someone knows for certain, could they add the version number to the statement in the article? Ta. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 19:52, 18 November 2007 (EST)

i just got siege and i think the bug is still there cause just redownloaded it for erroring reasons...the goblins just sit there and wait for something...
im wondering if (thanks to the bug) the goblins well just die of thirst or something?? or well just o away?

:Yup, still bugged. Toady needs to rewrite the siege AI, 'tis not a simple bug. Goblins will go away on their own after a while, but that beats all the fun. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 15:04, 21 November 2007 (EST)
::Some people suggested on the forum building siege engines near the golin groups and fire to them to death. I'm trying to do just that in my current game. Alternatively, I think there is a flag in the init file where you can disable sieges. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:33, 21 November 2007 (EST)
:Has anyone looked into changing the raws for the goblins to have them a similar behavior to werewolves and other predatory creatures? They roam around the map looking for something to kill, and while they might not stay together in a squad, or move toward your base directly, at least they would do *something*... if it works. Any thoughts? --Gotthard 12:24, 30 November 2007 (EST)

:As of 33g I think they're still somewhat bugged. They will charge but if they find something to attack, it seems like their AI turns off and they stop on the spot. So I guess as long as you don't give them anything to attack on the way to your front gate, they will work fine. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 22:45, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Siege as a blockade ==

"A siege is a military blockade of a city or fortress with the intent of conquering by force or attrition, often accompanied by an assault. The term derives from the Latin word for "seat" or "sitting."[1] A siege occurs when an attacker encounters a city or fortress that refuses to surrender and cannot be easily taken by a frontal assault." --wikipedia

A siege isn't just a blind charge into your cage traps, either.
[[User:Moller|Moller]] 14:38, 3 December 2007 (EST)

My last few goblin seiges, have been actual seiges, instead of running around into my traps. The first of 3 squads ran in, about half fell victim to my traps, then ran, then the other 2 squads have been just waiting outside my fort, for 3 months and counting. [[User:OmegaX]] 15-September-2008
:Just to check, you didn't do anything that would break their pathfinding like triggering cave-ins, locking doors, or raising bridges? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:41, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
They left after a season, but there were no pathfinding issues, the fort was open, just waiting for them. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 21:10, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

==Best way to counter sieges?==
So far, the best way I've found to counter sieges is to create a line of traps all around the map. You can't build them just next to the border of the map, only 5 or 6 squares away from it... However, goblins still walks around a little and often hit the traps. It's hard to create enough casualties in this way to stop them, but they hardly ever leave without giving me free stuff and free kills. :)
Alternatively, setting up balistas or catapults in front of them and firing away is also very rewarding. Too bad it's almost impossible to do without forbidding your dwarves from fetching everything outside, which usually mean that they'll get in the way even if you manage to forbid everything in time. I wish there was a way to allow military dwarves to operate siege engines...--[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:47, 3 December 2007 (EST)

: I agree. Traps are a great thing. I also save VERY often, and when a siege occurs, I will 'force quit' and revert to a previously saved game. Then I make all my dwarves soldiers and give them time to pick up their equipment. This has proven very successful.--[[User:Keesto|Keesto]] 23:46, 5 September 2008 (EDT) Later...I have found that traps are the best/only defense. I have set up about 200 cage traps around the map, and also 20 stone fall traps around the entrances. Soldiers are only useful to me now when I release the goblins from their cages- in confined spaces -for a mass slaughter. Very satisfying.

== Human Leader / Mercenary? ==

I got my third or fourth goblin siege in the current game, and they arrived with a Human Spearmaster in one of their squads. Anyone else got this? Is it worth mentioning in this page?
:Confirmed: third siege. One of invaders is Human Macelord. He is a best attraction at my zoo right now :). Think, i'll add this. Whoops... someone already has :)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:33, 16 January 2008 (EST)
::My roommate had one in a group of ambushers. He was wearing a human leather earring, so that's lovely ;) --[[User:FloodSpectre|FloodSpectre]] 20:04, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

== Nifty defense plan ==

On an unrelated note, I figured a pretty nifty way to kill a lot (or all) of a siege by making an outdoors gatehouse with marksdwarves on the battlements... except instead of making it face OUT, I make it face IN, so I let the enemy inside and they get totally annihilated, as they are shot as soon as they appear :)

Something like this:
<pre>
########
=bolts=#
######@#
+@# g
+@# g
g +@# <- goblins on ground floor come this way
+@# g
+@# g
######@# g
=bolts=#
########
</pre>
This work specially well again enemy shooters, they don't even get a chance to shoot back (and it seems it's nearly impossible to hit my dwarves on higher ground AND behind fortifications).

--[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 23:23, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I recently tried a system like that, where the entrance hall is two floors tall, and I have a marksdwarf barracks on the floor above. They shoot plenty of goblins, and of course I have about 60 stonefall traps there too. I watched laughing as 66% of the goblins thought "AAAH RUN AWAY" and they retreated like sissies :D --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 11:25, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Stealth Sieges ==

It seems that in the new version that sieges don't give announcements anymore. I was still getting my fortress together when one of my woodcutters was ambushed by 10 or so goblins. They proceeded to charge my fort and get killed by the merchants and dogs. Then like 30 seconds later the second wave appeared unannouced at my door. The merchants were in no shape to stand against them and the dogs were all dead. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 15:31, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:This sounds more like an [[Ambush|ambush]] than a siege. I've had four seemingly seperate goblin ambush squads all assault my fortress at the same time (four seperate "An ambush! Curse them!"s), each of which was a lot more dangerous than my first siege! -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:00, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== quote from toady, december 27 ==
(so maybe parts of it changed)

"Humans and elves will come some time after they are angry enough at you.

Kobolds will start sending thieves once your pop hits 20 or you've traded a bit (value 500) or you've produced a bit more (value 5000). If they successfully steal objects, they'll come back with more thieves, and if they continue to be successful, they'll bring (buggy) archers. The power of the next attack is based only on how many objects were stolen during the last raid. They'll start sending archers if three or more objects are stolen.[]..they can send as many as 17 thieves and 36 archers, but this is incredibly unlikely. If the stolen object number is five or more, they'll start sending important historical figures.

Goblins start sending kidnappers when your population has hit 50 or you have traded a bit or produced a bit more (5x the kobold numbers). Once your population hits 80, they'll start to send more serious attacks instead of kidnappers on occasion. The numbers sent during the serious attacks depend only on how many attacks you've been through. If they have mounts or monsters(trolls?), they'll start using them on the second attack, with multiple monster packs on the third. Important historical figures also come with the third attack, but master weapon users can come on the second. Important kidnappers come on the second kidnapping attempt.

All of this will be obsolete once I get the armies working properly on the world map, though there will still have to be some artificial mechanism in place to stop early forts from being wiped out."

:Good, then I shall start war with the elves because there are no goblins.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 18:22, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

== Human Sieges ==

I am, right now in v0.28.181.39b, being besieged by about 14 humans, one of which is on a horse carrying a bow. "An enemy is laying siege" or some such came up instead of the usual "A vile force of darkness has arrived". Even stranger is that they built ''A Campfire'' and are just milling about around it. There is a clear path straight into the heart of my fortress. There is no sign of war on the civ screen. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 09:21, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
 It's even worse than that! They're actually doing siege tactics - they sit in their camp until someone goes outside, at which point they all set off to kill that poor sot. Then they return to camp. If it's not outside, they don't care. They also don't seem to be affected by any of my traps. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 11:52, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
:just wait until the campfire has burned down and then they will move to the fortress as the goblins do. It might take a while, so no need for hurry. I only had two human sieges in my current fortress until now, but they seem to increase in numbers as the goblins do.
:*first year: ~10 humans, not mounted, campfire
:*second year: ~20 humans, 2 squads, mounted. 1 squad with campfire, the second one just waited and had no campfire. After a while, they moved to the fortress, but not both squads at once.

:In my case (v0.28.181.39c), they were affected by my 2 weapon traps. At least at the second siege when they were mounted, during the first one when they had no horses, I had no traps, so I don't know if this has an effect.

:The text of the human siege is "The enemy have come and are laying siege to the fortress"

: In my fort the human guild representative died and once a caravan was slaughtered by an ambush.
:[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 18:24, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

::now in the 3rd year, a human diplomat arrived instead of the next siege and he offers the following options:
::''Peace is calling out to us. How do you respond?''
::Enter: ''I hear her voice. Let us stop this war.''
::Space: ''We will drown her out with the screams of your dying. Begone.''

::As I'm a beginner, as far as wikis are concerned, it would be nice if someone could update the article.
::[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:34, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
:::I've added it in, although I'm also a n00b at this wiki stuff, and kept forgetting important stuff. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:22, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::::thanks. As there aren't many reports about human sieges right now, it is a good start. -[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 03:09, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

: I have also received a human siege (v0.28.181.39e). Accidentally had the merchant diplomat locked in my fort - he 'left unhappy' (but he and the caravan were otherwise unscathed.) First summer - 10 unmounted humans; second summer - 50 humans, all mounted. Their campfire died down in Fall - it is now mid-Winter and they still haven't entered my fort. Instead they ride their horses in circles outside my gate. I have tried to bait them with expendable dwarfs but they just take them out with crossbows. Dwarven caravan did not even attempt to come in the Fall; also, no goblins or kobolds have dared to raid during the siege. All in all, a pretty effective siege as I do not have yet a military capable of attacking. (3rd year of fort). By the way, when the first siege force arrived I had fewer than 80 dwarves.
:[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 21:27, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

My guild rep died somehow, not really sure what caused it, though my relations before that were fairly good with the humans, aside from a caravan seize once, and when they came back I gave them gifts and large profit margins. Anyways, now theres a seige, I dont see a campfire, but they're definately waiting, eventually they marched into my fort, AVOIDING all the non-cage TRAPS. Cage traps got a few, but they evaded my corridor with 20 weapon traps, and 40+ Stone-fall traps, all loaded and ready. Without a single injury. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 02:13, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Liaison

2008-09-20T13:19:04Z

OmegaX: /* really set off traps? */

Any idea how to keep them from staying till they go insane. Every winter my dwarves live in fear of the bruce lee of liaisons going into a martial trance.

At first I thought they'd stay if they didn't get to talk with my broker but having a meeting doesn't help get them out. --[[User:Lucid|Lucid]] 17:44, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Make sure you have your broker free long enough to make your demands and to views theirs, it take about 4 meetings between your broker and the liaison. At least that is how I get him to leave --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 18:08, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

so THAT'S how you do it, good thing I turned off my expo leader from hunting, the damned liason kept on scaring off the deer [the leader, and broker] was chasing :\

= Broker, not Leader? =

So it's the broker, not the mayor, that meets with these guys? That changes some things. (I'm trying to keep the Liasons outside of my fortess so they don't know where the traps are, if they ever siege.)

No, its the leader/mayor. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 11:33, 20 February 2008 (EST)

:i have my leader and broker separate(not by choice) in my current fort, and noticed that while the dwarf liaison meets with the leader, the human rep most definately meets with the broker, not the leader. --[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 06:57, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

::Ditto, my broker keeps meeting with the Liasons (all of them, i think, certainly the human one) despite not having been mayor for something like 5 years (military dwarves always seem to get elected mayor...). In fact, I just annoyed a human liason because my broker (not mayor) entered a strange mood just as the liason entered my fortress (thus promptly leaving).
::Now, Diplomats meet with the highest ranking leading noble you have (mayor/baron+/etc...), and I don't know why Diplomat redirects to Liason as humans and elves occasionally send a diplomat to make demands or merely comment 'this is a nice place you've carved out for yourself'.
::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 06:54, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

Ok, I changed this so that it correctly says the human liason meets with your broker. I left the dwarven liason as Mayor but I'm not certain that's true - my one still existent game which is suitably set up to check this otherwise is now the mountainhome, so I'm unable to verify at present. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 21:07, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

::Anecdotal evidence of dwarven liason using Mayor/Exp Leader - I got an initial set of dwarves where they made someone expedition leader who didn't have the broker skills, so exp leader and broker were different dwarves. Dwarven Liason met with Exp Leader. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:55, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

== really set off traps? ==
I have both liaisons walk through a maze of traps every time they visit, never got hurt. Maybe a 38a/b/c bug? What kind of traps were they triggering?--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:56, 27 February 2008 (EST)

:I'm running DF 38a and every year when the caravans arrive I get a new human corpse to loot. My liasons ''never'' make it past my traps (weapon[disc] and stonefall). I wish they would, I'd like to adjust what they bring. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 21:00, 3 March 2008 (EST)
::well known bug for 38a, it was fixed in 38b -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 21:54, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Mine just set off a Trap too. Died. Running verson 40c for mac. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 09:19, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

== Can't assign new leader; wiki article is incorrect ==

Leaders are elected and can't be manually chosen. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 23:34, 8 March 2008 (EST)

I may be remembering wrong, but I recall my liasons wanting to meet my Broker, who is manually chosen. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 01:52, 9 March 2008 (EST)

== Diplomat ==

I have an elven diplomat telling my duchess not to cut down more than 55 trees (and calling her short.. a member of Elves for the Ethical Treatment of Trees?). Is this kind of diplomat separate from the trade liaison? The page [[Diplomat]] redirects here.. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:18, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:Yes and no. We should maybe move this page to "diplomat" as both the human and dwarven one (and the elven one? never had one of those although im trying hard *grin*) are called diplomat in the unit list. On the other hand the elves never send a trade diplomat(?) so, yes he is somewhat different, but should be included then... --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:37, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

== weird trigger for liaison screens ==
it seems once the meeting has started the usual delay between the screens can be avoided by marking tiles for digging with the mouse - this will cause the screens to pop up during marking (just be careful with pressing space bar) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:29, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

== odd behaviour out of season/character ==
My siege engineer has just spend a while wandering around my fortress with the job "Attend Meeting" even though a) he is not the broker or mayor, b) there are no merchants or liasons on the map. He would go to one place and just stand there doing nothing then walk to another place and repeat. This went on for a while then he just went back to normal. There were other jobs he could have been doing at the time. Most odd. Is this a bug should I report it? [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 19:19, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
:To clear up a point of confusion the job "Conduct Meeting" is the job assigned to the Mayor,Broker, or Baron/Count. After dwarven economy is running a dwarf might get the job "Attend Meeting". That dwarf seeks a meeting with the Mayor. If the Mayor is busy he will continue to follow the Mayor around until he is free. The solution I found is to switch off the Mayor's labors so he's free to conduct the meeting. The meeting is usually quick and then you'll get the other dwarf working again.--[[User:Angus|Angus]] 20:52, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

== verified some embarrassment factors ==
From dwarfort.exe
(Name) was embarrassed to have to conduct an official meeting in a dining room.
(Name) was very embarrassed to have to conduct an official meeting in a bedroom.
[[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 19:58, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

: I would be happier if someone could verify that it is actually _used_ in game, but, well. You see, my palace office never triggered any thought. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:13, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

::Try giving them a dining room and no office, koltom. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:26, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

:::I got these unhappy thoughts from meetings conducted in public dining halls that were also designated as meeting halls. (I do not know whether they also happen from nobles' personal dining rooms designated from private tables.) They seem to be very minor unhappy thoughts, so I'm not going out of my way to avoid such designations to keep my idlers from going to hang out by the wagon in the fortresses' early stages. --[[User:Brent Not Broken|Brent Not Broken]] 12:31, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Liaisons, zoo material? ==

I want to know whether or not to trap the liaisons before they leave and have them in cages. Should I do this or not?--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 19:17, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

:hm..
: *You can't trap them (unless you mean locking them in a room)
: *You can't assign them to cages
: If u don't let them leave they will go crazy and your requests for trade items will most likely be ignored
: why do you want to trap them? (okay, they are annoying, but also useful) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:41, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

==Human Diplomat==
Added information about the human diplomat, whom i've seen meeting with my Baron/Count/Duke often enough (4 different games, multiple times in each). They don't seem to do much at present - though I haven't tried to incur a human siege of my fortress to see if they sue for peace if you beat them. I imagine they could theoretically make demands like the elven diplomat does, except they aren't picky about things like cutting down trees. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 21:07, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Meeting With Elves ==

What happens if you choose different option instead of saying yes to whatever they say? The number of trees keep going lower...57....43...37...well they aren't the exact numbers but close to them. I might want to try to fight them once. I've got some ore to melt and I need a good amount of charcoal... They appear every year after cutting too much trees?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 23:36, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

== elves ==

elves bully you into chopping less and less trees, unless you demand they let you chop more, infact, they respect you less if you go with the initial amount.

== liaison - dead and gone? (death of a salesman) ==
When in the first summer the dwarven caravan arrived with the outpost liaison at my latest fortress, the liason made it savely past the traps but seems to have died just in front of the depot - no blood to be seen, no message in the announcement, just as he had died a natural death.
Strange enough, but after I provided him a coffin, in the next year the dwarves came without another liaison. So I disposed the treacherous coffin and bones in my crush-o-mat. But that didn't have any effect either: There didn't come any liaison anymore.
In the first place I wonder why he died, and also why he isn't succeeded?!--[[User:Doub|Doub]]

== Left Unhappily? ==

I just got a message
"Diplomacy Stymied. A diplomat has left unhappy."
The last part of the meeting never occured, and my mayor was unable to meet him, due to seige. Was the dwarven diplomat. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:59, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

== Person to meet set when liaison arrives? ==

When the human liaison arrived this year, I had "Trader Joe" Stukosshed as my Broker. Shortly after, the goblins sieged and Joe got hit by a stray arrow while evacuating. His arm is mangled, so he's resting. I assigned a new broker, but it looks like the Human liaison is holding vigil beside Joe's bed, waiting for him to wake up to run the meeting. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:32, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Underground river

2008-09-20T08:04:02Z

OmegaX: Odd River

Assuming that there's some logic behind underground river locations, it seems to me that the following might be good places to look: 'Upstream' from the source of a regular river (perhaps that river doesn't start there, but that's simply where it makes it to the surface first), in an area without many visible surface rivers (rain falls and has to go somewhere), and in areas with lots of limestone, which is where a lot of real-world underground rivers are. [[User:NPComplete|NPComplete]] 13:18, 4 December 2007 (EST)

It is in my understanding that underground rivers spawn cave fish. Also, above ground rivers channeled under ground do not spawn cave fish. Can someone verify this? --[[User:Flaa|Flaa]] 12:55, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

:As far as I'm concerned creatures spawn only in respectable biomes. When you channel to cave river this biome does not extend up. It cannot be extended in any direction. If you could block flow of the cave river you could make small pond, from which cave fishes could travel up the channels to the aboveground river, but they will never spawn there.--[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 14:38, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

In the current version (38c) underground river creatures do get caught in cages. I can verify this, I have a pit full of cave crocodiles, and I've caught numerous lizardmen. -- [[User:Lotus|Lotus]] 9:58, (CST) June 11, 2008

==Flooding==

Do cave rivers still flood seasonally like in the 2D versions? [[User:Extar|Extar]] 15:11, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

== Odd River ==

I have a very... odd river. It starts out as mist, in the middle of nowhere, and counts as a waterfall, then it goes on for a screen, then falls off a chasm.
http://s4.tinypic.com/6sgi90.jpg
The entire area 1z above is empty space the same size as the river. Then above that, rock. Where is the water comming from?
It's mildly amusing, because random underground river creatures will spawn in it, swim around for a while, then fall into the chasm.

40d Talk:Site finder

2008-09-18T23:31:44Z

OmegaX: /* Site Finder Lied */

== Multiple Results? ==
Given that the search covers the entire map, is there a way to see all of the results instead of only one? Also, is the result the first one found, the "best" one, or the closest one to the cursor's location at search time? —[[User:0x517A5D|0x517A5D]] 23:40, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:It's probably the first one found. I haven't seen a difference based on cursor location - a search with all features n/a from the top left and from bottom right gave same result. There isn't a way to see all results. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:30, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

== Area searched ==

The statement in the main article that the site finder will only take into account current latitude/longitude is incorrect. The bug isn't that crisp. Generally, it'll prefer sites from the quadrant or so nearest your cursor, rather than sites on the far side of the map. I generally find that four searches, one in each quadrant, will find whatever sites on the map best correspond with the criteria I'm seeking.

The best way to find different locations is to move the cursor AND change an arbitrary setting you don't care much about, like swapping "bottomless pit" for "chasm."
:I have done a few searches and there were two indicators that it really only uses one latitude: I only got results on the latitude the cursor was on initially and the finder counts up to one extent of the map (129 for as 129x129 map). I tested again today and indeed it is wrong - the finder searches the whole map, it seems. I'll correct my edit.

40d Talk:Baron

2008-09-17T04:37:26Z

OmegaX: /* Minimum Exported Wealth? */

I've had a Baron (and Hammerer and Tax Collector) arrive when my population was exactly 80 and when my population was capped in the init.txt file at 80. I'm confident that the requirement of 100 people is wrong. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 13:07, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Likewise, my current fortress has 134 people and 1.5M in created wealth, but no baron. I'm reasonably certain this must be some sort of weighted random arrival. --[[User:Sebbekai|Sebbekai]] 18:22, 6 January 2008 (EST)

== Oops, I killed the consort ==

The consort was making mandates I could not satisfy, so he had to go. This has caused some kind of problem though... my fortress will not upgrade to a county so I can get the king. I am considering killing my baroness as well, and attempting to reset the whole situation. Any suggestions? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 01:15, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

:Kiilll them! Kiiilll them! Kiiilllll them alllll! --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:52, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

== Hammerer and tax collector ==

Do the hammerer and tax collector always arrive along with the Baron? --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 18:26, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

I Don't think that its Always the case but it seems to frequently be the case for me; all of my forts that I allow nobles they tend to show up together. --Silver

==Peasant King==

I got the [[King]] as a peasant due to discovering [[Adamantine]]. I don't appear to be getting a Baron, tax collector, hammerer or a royal guard. Is this a bug? -[[User:Rushyo|Rushyo]] 21:54, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

== Minimum Exported Wealth? ==

Im pretty sure there's gotta be a Minimum exported wealth for the baron to arrive, I satisfy all the other conditions, and have over 1.6 million created wealth, 163 dwarves, and my dwarves do well over the job requirements. However, I as of now, only have 30426 Exported wealth. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 16:13, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

Duke arrived at 32435 exported wealth. No baron yet. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 00:37, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Liaison

2008-09-16T22:00:08Z

OmegaX:

Any idea how to keep them from staying till they go insane. Every winter my dwarves live in fear of the bruce lee of liaisons going into a martial trance.

At first I thought they'd stay if they didn't get to talk with my broker but having a meeting doesn't help get them out. --[[User:Lucid|Lucid]] 17:44, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Make sure you have your broker free long enough to make your demands and to views theirs, it take about 4 meetings between your broker and the liaison. At least that is how I get him to leave --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 18:08, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

so THAT'S how you do it, good thing I turned off my expo leader from hunting, the damned liason kept on scaring off the deer [the leader, and broker] was chasing :\

= Broker, not Leader? =

So it's the broker, not the mayor, that meets with these guys? That changes some things. (I'm trying to keep the Liasons outside of my fortess so they don't know where the traps are, if they ever siege.)

No, its the leader/mayor. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 11:33, 20 February 2008 (EST)

:i have my leader and broker separate(not by choice) in my current fort, and noticed that while the dwarf liaison meets with the leader, the human rep most definately meets with the broker, not the leader. --[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 06:57, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

::Ditto, my broker keeps meeting with the Liasons (all of them, i think, certainly the human one) despite not having been mayor for something like 5 years (military dwarves always seem to get elected mayor...). In fact, I just annoyed a human liason because my broker (not mayor) entered a strange mood just as the liason entered my fortress (thus promptly leaving).
::Now, Diplomats meet with the highest ranking leading noble you have (mayor/baron+/etc...), and I don't know why Diplomat redirects to Liason as humans and elves occasionally send a diplomat to make demands or merely comment 'this is a nice place you've carved out for yourself'.
::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 06:54, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

Ok, I changed this so that it correctly says the human liason meets with your broker. I left the dwarven liason as Mayor but I'm not certain that's true - my one still existent game which is suitably set up to check this otherwise is now the mountainhome, so I'm unable to verify at present. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 21:07, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

::Anecdotal evidence of dwarven liason using Mayor/Exp Leader - I got an initial set of dwarves where they made someone expedition leader who didn't have the broker skills, so exp leader and broker were different dwarves. Dwarven Liason met with Exp Leader. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:55, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

== really set off traps? ==
I have both liaisons walk through a maze of traps every time they visit, never got hurt. Maybe a 38a/b/c bug? What kind of traps were they triggering?--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:56, 27 February 2008 (EST)

:I'm running DF 38a and every year when the caravans arrive I get a new human corpse to loot. My liasons ''never'' make it past my traps (weapon[disc] and stonefall). I wish they would, I'd like to adjust what they bring. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 21:00, 3 March 2008 (EST)
::well known bug for 38a, it was fixed in 38b -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 21:54, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Mine just set off a Trap too. Died. Running verson 40c for mac.

== Can't assign new leader; wiki article is incorrect ==

Leaders are elected and can't be manually chosen. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 23:34, 8 March 2008 (EST)

I may be remembering wrong, but I recall my liasons wanting to meet my Broker, who is manually chosen. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 01:52, 9 March 2008 (EST)

== Diplomat ==

I have an elven diplomat telling my duchess not to cut down more than 55 trees (and calling her short.. a member of Elves for the Ethical Treatment of Trees?). Is this kind of diplomat separate from the trade liaison? The page [[Diplomat]] redirects here.. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:18, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:Yes and no. We should maybe move this page to "diplomat" as both the human and dwarven one (and the elven one? never had one of those although im trying hard *grin*) are called diplomat in the unit list. On the other hand the elves never send a trade diplomat(?) so, yes he is somewhat different, but should be included then... --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:37, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

== weird trigger for liaison screens ==
it seems once the meeting has started the usual delay between the screens can be avoided by marking tiles for digging with the mouse - this will cause the screens to pop up during marking (just be careful with pressing space bar) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:29, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

== odd behaviour out of season/character ==
My siege engineer has just spend a while wandering around my fortress with the job "Attend Meeting" even though a) he is not the broker or mayor, b) there are no merchants or liasons on the map. He would go to one place and just stand there doing nothing then walk to another place and repeat. This went on for a while then he just went back to normal. There were other jobs he could have been doing at the time. Most odd. Is this a bug should I report it? [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 19:19, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
:To clear up a point of confusion the job "Conduct Meeting" is the job assigned to the Mayor,Broker, or Baron/Count. After dwarven economy is running a dwarf might get the job "Attend Meeting". That dwarf seeks a meeting with the Mayor. If the Mayor is busy he will continue to follow the Mayor around until he is free. The solution I found is to switch off the Mayor's labors so he's free to conduct the meeting. The meeting is usually quick and then you'll get the other dwarf working again.--[[User:Angus|Angus]] 20:52, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

== verified some embarrassment factors ==
From dwarfort.exe
(Name) was embarrassed to have to conduct an official meeting in a dining room.
(Name) was very embarrassed to have to conduct an official meeting in a bedroom.
[[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 19:58, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

: I would be happier if someone could verify that it is actually _used_ in game, but, well. You see, my palace office never triggered any thought. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:13, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

::Try giving them a dining room and no office, koltom. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:26, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

:::I got these unhappy thoughts from meetings conducted in public dining halls that were also designated as meeting halls. (I do not know whether they also happen from nobles' personal dining rooms designated from private tables.) They seem to be very minor unhappy thoughts, so I'm not going out of my way to avoid such designations to keep my idlers from going to hang out by the wagon in the fortresses' early stages. --[[User:Brent Not Broken|Brent Not Broken]] 12:31, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Liaisons, zoo material? ==

I want to know whether or not to trap the liaisons before they leave and have them in cages. Should I do this or not?--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 19:17, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

:hm..
: *You can't trap them (unless you mean locking them in a room)
: *You can't assign them to cages
: If u don't let them leave they will go crazy and your requests for trade items will most likely be ignored
: why do you want to trap them? (okay, they are annoying, but also useful) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:41, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

==Human Diplomat==
Added information about the human diplomat, whom i've seen meeting with my Baron/Count/Duke often enough (4 different games, multiple times in each). They don't seem to do much at present - though I haven't tried to incur a human siege of my fortress to see if they sue for peace if you beat them. I imagine they could theoretically make demands like the elven diplomat does, except they aren't picky about things like cutting down trees. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 21:07, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Meeting With Elves ==

What happens if you choose different option instead of saying yes to whatever they say? The number of trees keep going lower...57....43...37...well they aren't the exact numbers but close to them. I might want to try to fight them once. I've got some ore to melt and I need a good amount of charcoal... They appear every year after cutting too much trees?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 23:36, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

== elves ==

elves bully you into chopping less and less trees, unless you demand they let you chop more, infact, they respect you less if you go with the initial amount.

== liaison - dead and gone? (death of a salesman) ==
When in the first summer the dwarven caravan arrived with the outpost liaison at my latest fortress, the liason made it savely past the traps but seems to have died just in front of the depot - no blood to be seen, no message in the announcement, just as he had died a natural death.
Strange enough, but after I provided him a coffin, in the next year the dwarves came without another liaison. So I disposed the treacherous coffin and bones in my crush-o-mat. But that didn't have any effect either: There didn't come any liaison anymore.
In the first place I wonder why he died, and also why he isn't succeeded?!--[[User:Doub|Doub]]

== Left Unhappily? ==

I just got a message
"Diplomacy Stymied. A diplomat has left unhappy."
The last part of the meeting never occured, and my mayor was unable to meet him, due to seige. Was the dwarven diplomat. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:59, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Liaison

2008-09-16T21:59:49Z

OmegaX: Left Unhappily?

Any idea how to keep them from staying till they go insane. Every winter my dwarves live in fear of the bruce lee of liaisons going into a martial trance.

At first I thought they'd stay if they didn't get to talk with my broker but having a meeting doesn't help get them out. --[[User:Lucid|Lucid]] 17:44, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Make sure you have your broker free long enough to make your demands and to views theirs, it take about 4 meetings between your broker and the liaison. At least that is how I get him to leave --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 18:08, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

so THAT'S how you do it, good thing I turned off my expo leader from hunting, the damned liason kept on scaring off the deer [the leader, and broker] was chasing :\

= Broker, not Leader? =

So it's the broker, not the mayor, that meets with these guys? That changes some things. (I'm trying to keep the Liasons outside of my fortess so they don't know where the traps are, if they ever siege.)

No, its the leader/mayor. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 11:33, 20 February 2008 (EST)

:i have my leader and broker separate(not by choice) in my current fort, and noticed that while the dwarf liaison meets with the leader, the human rep most definately meets with the broker, not the leader. --[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 06:57, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

::Ditto, my broker keeps meeting with the Liasons (all of them, i think, certainly the human one) despite not having been mayor for something like 5 years (military dwarves always seem to get elected mayor...). In fact, I just annoyed a human liason because my broker (not mayor) entered a strange mood just as the liason entered my fortress (thus promptly leaving).
::Now, Diplomats meet with the highest ranking leading noble you have (mayor/baron+/etc...), and I don't know why Diplomat redirects to Liason as humans and elves occasionally send a diplomat to make demands or merely comment 'this is a nice place you've carved out for yourself'.
::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 06:54, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

Ok, I changed this so that it correctly says the human liason meets with your broker. I left the dwarven liason as Mayor but I'm not certain that's true - my one still existent game which is suitably set up to check this otherwise is now the mountainhome, so I'm unable to verify at present. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 21:07, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

::Anecdotal evidence of dwarven liason using Mayor/Exp Leader - I got an initial set of dwarves where they made someone expedition leader who didn't have the broker skills, so exp leader and broker were different dwarves. Dwarven Liason met with Exp Leader. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:55, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

== really set off traps? ==
I have both liaisons walk through a maze of traps every time they visit, never got hurt. Maybe a 38a/b/c bug? What kind of traps were they triggering?--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:56, 27 February 2008 (EST)

:I'm running DF 38a and every year when the caravans arrive I get a new human corpse to loot. My liasons ''never'' make it past my traps (weapon[disc] and stonefall). I wish they would, I'd like to adjust what they bring. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 21:00, 3 March 2008 (EST)
::well known bug for 38a, it was fixed in 38b -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 21:54, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Mine just set off a Trap too. Died. Running verson 40c for mac.

== Can't assign new leader; wiki article is incorrect ==

Leaders are elected and can't be manually chosen. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 23:34, 8 March 2008 (EST)

I may be remembering wrong, but I recall my liasons wanting to meet my Broker, who is manually chosen. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 01:52, 9 March 2008 (EST)

== Diplomat ==

I have an elven diplomat telling my duchess not to cut down more than 55 trees (and calling her short.. a member of Elves for the Ethical Treatment of Trees?). Is this kind of diplomat separate from the trade liaison? The page [[Diplomat]] redirects here.. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:18, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:Yes and no. We should maybe move this page to "diplomat" as both the human and dwarven one (and the elven one? never had one of those although im trying hard *grin*) are called diplomat in the unit list. On the other hand the elves never send a trade diplomat(?) so, yes he is somewhat different, but should be included then... --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:37, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

== weird trigger for liaison screens ==
it seems once the meeting has started the usual delay between the screens can be avoided by marking tiles for digging with the mouse - this will cause the screens to pop up during marking (just be careful with pressing space bar) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:29, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

== odd behaviour out of season/character ==
My siege engineer has just spend a while wandering around my fortress with the job "Attend Meeting" even though a) he is not the broker or mayor, b) there are no merchants or liasons on the map. He would go to one place and just stand there doing nothing then walk to another place and repeat. This went on for a while then he just went back to normal. There were other jobs he could have been doing at the time. Most odd. Is this a bug should I report it? [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 19:19, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
:To clear up a point of confusion the job "Conduct Meeting" is the job assigned to the Mayor,Broker, or Baron/Count. After dwarven economy is running a dwarf might get the job "Attend Meeting". That dwarf seeks a meeting with the Mayor. If the Mayor is busy he will continue to follow the Mayor around until he is free. The solution I found is to switch off the Mayor's labors so he's free to conduct the meeting. The meeting is usually quick and then you'll get the other dwarf working again.--[[User:Angus|Angus]] 20:52, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

== verified some embarrassment factors ==
From dwarfort.exe
(Name) was embarrassed to have to conduct an official meeting in a dining room.
(Name) was very embarrassed to have to conduct an official meeting in a bedroom.
[[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 19:58, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

: I would be happier if someone could verify that it is actually _used_ in game, but, well. You see, my palace office never triggered any thought. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:13, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

::Try giving them a dining room and no office, koltom. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:26, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

:::I got these unhappy thoughts from meetings conducted in public dining halls that were also designated as meeting halls. (I do not know whether they also happen from nobles' personal dining rooms designated from private tables.) They seem to be very minor unhappy thoughts, so I'm not going out of my way to avoid such designations to keep my idlers from going to hang out by the wagon in the fortresses' early stages. --[[User:Brent Not Broken|Brent Not Broken]] 12:31, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Liaisons, zoo material? ==

I want to know whether or not to trap the liaisons before they leave and have them in cages. Should I do this or not?--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 19:17, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

:hm..
: *You can't trap them (unless you mean locking them in a room)
: *You can't assign them to cages
: If u don't let them leave they will go crazy and your requests for trade items will most likely be ignored
: why do you want to trap them? (okay, they are annoying, but also useful) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:41, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

==Human Diplomat==
Added information about the human diplomat, whom i've seen meeting with my Baron/Count/Duke often enough (4 different games, multiple times in each). They don't seem to do much at present - though I haven't tried to incur a human siege of my fortress to see if they sue for peace if you beat them. I imagine they could theoretically make demands like the elven diplomat does, except they aren't picky about things like cutting down trees. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 21:07, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Meeting With Elves ==

What happens if you choose different option instead of saying yes to whatever they say? The number of trees keep going lower...57....43...37...well they aren't the exact numbers but close to them. I might want to try to fight them once. I've got some ore to melt and I need a good amount of charcoal... They appear every year after cutting too much trees?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 23:36, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

== elves ==

elves bully you into chopping less and less trees, unless you demand they let you chop more, infact, they respect you less if you go with the initial amount.

== liaison - dead and gone? (death of a salesman) ==
When in the first summer the dwarven caravan arrived with the outpost liaison at my latest fortress, the liason made it savely past the traps but seems to have died just in front of the depot - no blood to be seen, no message in the announcement, just as he had died a natural death.
Strange enough, but after I provided him a coffin, in the next year the dwarves came without another liaison. So I disposed the treacherous coffin and bones in my crush-o-mat. But that didn't have any effect either: There didn't come any liaison anymore.
In the first place I wonder why he died, and also why he isn't succeeded?!--[[User:Doub|Doub]]

== Left Unhappily? ==

I just got a message
"Diplomacy Stymied. A diplomat has left unhappy."
The last part of the meeting never occured, and my mayor was unable to meet him, due to seige. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:59, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Baron

2008-09-16T20:13:17Z

OmegaX: /* Minimum Exported Wealth? */

40d Talk:Baron

2008-09-16T01:19:44Z

OmegaX: Minimum Exported Wealth?

40d Talk:Siege

2008-09-16T01:10:32Z

OmegaX: /* Siege as a blockade */

===Trigger?===
Just noticed that I got my first (Goblin) siege at 100000 wealth. Anyone else confirm that this is the trigger? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 00:06, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:I had my first goblin siege at about 600k wealth. They sieged me at 15 levels above ground level, where I had a stairway to my fortress. They loitered around for a season and left. [[User:Kaivosukeltaja|Kaivosukeltaja]] 07:31, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::Thanks. I removed my addition from the article. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:35, 9 November 2007 (EST)

I think part of the trigger is killing a Goblin. I'd captured several Goblin thieves, but it was only after I'd dispatched them that I was besieged. So, (wealth > certain amount) and (has killed Goblins) maybe? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 23:09, 12 November 2007 (EST)

Actually, according to Toady (http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000033), Goblins will start sieging now roughly around 80 dwarves and/or some odd amount of wealth.

:I had 3 goblin snatchers show up at a population of 40 dwarves and created wealth of 63,793 (v0.27.169.33g). --[[User:Frond|Frond]] 22:17, 16 January 2008 (EST)

I think that the trigger amount is off by a bit- I just received my first siege, by goblins, at 57 population and about 411,000 wealth. --[[User:Linktoreality|Linktoreality]] 04:58, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Troll squads ==

I had 3 troll squads of exactly 8 trolls in each during a siege. Had a goblin king that time but no beak dogs. Can it be that no beak dogs in goblin civ=better chance for trolls?
:I been sieged at least half a dozain time in my current fortress, and I've never encountered trolls or anything bigger than skilled goblins. In my latest siege, all the goblins are specialised in something but I have no trolls or wolves or whatever to show for. Any idea on this behavior? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:16, 26 November 2007 (EST)
::Apperently they haven't access to any chasm biome for trolls and to whatever biome for beak dogs.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:42, 26 November 2007 (EST)

== Mounts ==

Woe betide those who anger humans. I added a second human race with [BABYSNATCHER] instead of [SIEGER] for barbarian raiding action. When they sieged, every last one of them was riding a horse. When I approached the buggers kept running away and going all Parthian shot on me, too. It was pretty bad ass. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:23, 10 November 2007 (EST)

== Still bugged? ==

Are sieges still bugged in 33b? If someone knows for certain, could they add the version number to the statement in the article? Ta. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 19:52, 18 November 2007 (EST)

i just got siege and i think the bug is still there cause just redownloaded it for erroring reasons...the goblins just sit there and wait for something...
im wondering if (thanks to the bug) the goblins well just die of thirst or something?? or well just o away?

:Yup, still bugged. Toady needs to rewrite the siege AI, 'tis not a simple bug. Goblins will go away on their own after a while, but that beats all the fun. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 15:04, 21 November 2007 (EST)
::Some people suggested on the forum building siege engines near the golin groups and fire to them to death. I'm trying to do just that in my current game. Alternatively, I think there is a flag in the init file where you can disable sieges. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:33, 21 November 2007 (EST)
:Has anyone looked into changing the raws for the goblins to have them a similar behavior to werewolves and other predatory creatures? They roam around the map looking for something to kill, and while they might not stay together in a squad, or move toward your base directly, at least they would do *something*... if it works. Any thoughts? --Gotthard 12:24, 30 November 2007 (EST)

:As of 33g I think they're still somewhat bugged. They will charge but if they find something to attack, it seems like their AI turns off and they stop on the spot. So I guess as long as you don't give them anything to attack on the way to your front gate, they will work fine. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 22:45, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Siege as a blockade ==

"A siege is a military blockade of a city or fortress with the intent of conquering by force or attrition, often accompanied by an assault. The term derives from the Latin word for "seat" or "sitting."[1] A siege occurs when an attacker encounters a city or fortress that refuses to surrender and cannot be easily taken by a frontal assault." --wikipedia

A siege isn't just a blind charge into your cage traps, either.
[[User:Moller|Moller]] 14:38, 3 December 2007 (EST)

My last few goblin seiges, have been actual seiges, instead of running around into my traps. The first of 3 squads ran in, about half fell victim to my traps, then ran, then the other 2 squads have been just waiting outside my fort, for 3 months and counting. [[User:OmegaX]] 15-September-2008
:Just to check, you didn't do anything that would break their pathfinding like triggering cave-ins, locking doors, or raising bridges? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:41, 15 September 2008 (EDT)
They left after a season, but there were no pathfinding issues, the fort was open, just waiting for them. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 21:10, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

==Best way to counter sieges?==
So far, the best way I've found to counter sieges is to create a line of traps all around the map. You can't build them just next to the border of the map, only 5 or 6 squares away from it... However, goblins still walks around a little and often hit the traps. It's hard to create enough casualties in this way to stop them, but they hardly ever leave without giving me free stuff and free kills. :)
Alternatively, setting up balistas or catapults in front of them and firing away is also very rewarding. Too bad it's almost impossible to do without forbidding your dwarves from fetching everything outside, which usually mean that they'll get in the way even if you manage to forbid everything in time. I wish there was a way to allow military dwarves to operate siege engines...--[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:47, 3 December 2007 (EST)

: I agree. Traps are a great thing. I also save VERY often, and when a siege occurs, I will 'force quit' and revert to a previously saved game. Then I make all my dwarves soldiers and give them time to pick up their equipment. This has proven very successful.--[[User:Keesto|Keesto]] 23:46, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

== Human Leader / Mercenary? ==

I got my third or fourth goblin siege in the current game, and they arrived with a Human Spearmaster in one of their squads. Anyone else got this? Is it worth mentioning in this page?
:Confirmed: third siege. One of invaders is Human Macelord. He is a best attraction at my zoo right now :). Think, i'll add this. Whoops... someone already has :)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:33, 16 January 2008 (EST)
::My roommate had one in a group of ambushers. He was wearing a human leather earring, so that's lovely ;) --[[User:FloodSpectre|FloodSpectre]] 20:04, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

== Nifty defense plan ==

On an unrelated note, I figured a pretty nifty way to kill a lot (or all) of a siege by making an outdoors gatehouse with marksdwarves on the battlements... except instead of making it face OUT, I make it face IN, so I let the enemy inside and they get totally annihilated, as they are shot as soon as they appear :)

Something like this:
<pre>
########
=bolts=#
######@#
+@# g
+@# g
g +@# <- goblins on ground floor come this way
+@# g
+@# g
######@# g
=bolts=#
########
</pre>
This work specially well again enemy shooters, they don't even get a chance to shoot back (and it seems it's nearly impossible to hit my dwarves on higher ground AND behind fortifications).

--[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 23:23, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I recently tried a system like that, where the entrance hall is two floors tall, and I have a marksdwarf barracks on the floor above. They shoot plenty of goblins, and of course I have about 60 stonefall traps there too. I watched laughing as 66% of the goblins thought "AAAH RUN AWAY" and they retreated like sissies :D --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 11:25, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Stealth Sieges ==

It seems that in the new version that sieges don't give announcements anymore. I was still getting my fortress together when one of my woodcutters was ambushed by 10 or so goblins. They proceeded to charge my fort and get killed by the merchants and dogs. Then like 30 seconds later the second wave appeared unannouced at my door. The merchants were in no shape to stand against them and the dogs were all dead. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 15:31, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:This sounds more like an [[Ambush|ambush]] than a siege. I've had four seemingly seperate goblin ambush squads all assault my fortress at the same time (four seperate "An ambush! Curse them!"s), each of which was a lot more dangerous than my first siege! -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:00, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== quote from toady, december 27 ==
(so maybe parts of it changed)

"Humans and elves will come some time after they are angry enough at you.

Kobolds will start sending thieves once your pop hits 20 or you've traded a bit (value 500) or you've produced a bit more (value 5000). If they successfully steal objects, they'll come back with more thieves, and if they continue to be successful, they'll bring (buggy) archers. The power of the next attack is based only on how many objects were stolen during the last raid. They'll start sending archers if three or more objects are stolen.[]..they can send as many as 17 thieves and 36 archers, but this is incredibly unlikely. If the stolen object number is five or more, they'll start sending important historical figures.

Goblins start sending kidnappers when your population has hit 50 or you have traded a bit or produced a bit more (5x the kobold numbers). Once your population hits 80, they'll start to send more serious attacks instead of kidnappers on occasion. The numbers sent during the serious attacks depend only on how many attacks you've been through. If they have mounts or monsters(trolls?), they'll start using them on the second attack, with multiple monster packs on the third. Important historical figures also come with the third attack, but master weapon users can come on the second. Important kidnappers come on the second kidnapping attempt.

All of this will be obsolete once I get the armies working properly on the world map, though there will still have to be some artificial mechanism in place to stop early forts from being wiped out."

:Good, then I shall start war with the elves because there are no goblins.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 18:22, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

== Human Sieges ==

I am, right now in v0.28.181.39b, being besieged by about 14 humans, one of which is on a horse carrying a bow. "An enemy is laying siege" or some such came up instead of the usual "A vile force of darkness has arrived". Even stranger is that they built ''A Campfire'' and are just milling about around it. There is a clear path straight into the heart of my fortress. There is no sign of war on the civ screen. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 09:21, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
 It's even worse than that! They're actually doing siege tactics - they sit in their camp until someone goes outside, at which point they all set off to kill that poor sot. Then they return to camp. If it's not outside, they don't care. They also don't seem to be affected by any of my traps. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 11:52, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
:just wait until the campfire has burned down and then they will move to the fortress as the goblins do. It might take a while, so no need for hurry. I only had two human sieges in my current fortress until now, but they seem to increase in numbers as the goblins do.
:*first year: ~10 humans, not mounted, campfire
:*second year: ~20 humans, 2 squads, mounted. 1 squad with campfire, the second one just waited and had no campfire. After a while, they moved to the fortress, but not both squads at once.

:In my case (v0.28.181.39c), they were affected by my 2 weapon traps. At least at the second siege when they were mounted, during the first one when they had no horses, I had no traps, so I don't know if this has an effect.

:The text of the human siege is "The enemy have come and are laying siege to the fortress"

: In my fort the human guild representative died and once a caravan was slaughtered by an ambush.
:[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 18:24, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

::now in the 3rd year, a human diplomat arrived instead of the next siege and he offers the following options:
::''Peace is calling out to us. How do you respond?''
::Enter: ''I hear her voice. Let us stop this war.''
::Space: ''We will drown her out with the screams of your dying. Begone.''

::As I'm a beginner, as far as wikis are concerned, it would be nice if someone could update the article.
::[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:34, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
:::I've added it in, although I'm also a n00b at this wiki stuff, and kept forgetting important stuff. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:22, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::::thanks. As there aren't many reports about human sieges right now, it is a good start. -[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 03:09, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

: I have also received a human siege (v0.28.181.39e). Accidentally had the merchant diplomat locked in my fort - he 'left unhappy' (but he and the caravan were otherwise unscathed.) First summer - 10 unmounted humans; second summer - 50 humans, all mounted. Their campfire died down in Fall - it is now mid-Winter and they still haven't entered my fort. Instead they ride their horses in circles outside my gate. I have tried to bait them with expendable dwarfs but they just take them out with crossbows. Dwarven caravan did not even attempt to come in the Fall; also, no goblins or kobolds have dared to raid during the siege. All in all, a pretty effective siege as I do not have yet a military capable of attacking. (3rd year of fort). By the way, when the first siege force arrived I had fewer than 80 dwarves.
:[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 21:27, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Site finder

2008-09-16T01:08:05Z

OmegaX:

User talk:OmegaX

2008-09-15T14:30:37Z

OmegaX:

Hi, welcome to the DF wiki. Don't forget to sign your comments on talk pages with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> so we know who you are. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:12, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

Thanks. Im new to this wikiing thing. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 10:30, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Siege

2008-09-15T06:40:49Z

OmegaX:

===Trigger?===
Just noticed that I got my first (Goblin) siege at 100000 wealth. Anyone else confirm that this is the trigger? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 00:06, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:I had my first goblin siege at about 600k wealth. They sieged me at 15 levels above ground level, where I had a stairway to my fortress. They loitered around for a season and left. [[User:Kaivosukeltaja|Kaivosukeltaja]] 07:31, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::Thanks. I removed my addition from the article. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:35, 9 November 2007 (EST)

I think part of the trigger is killing a Goblin. I'd captured several Goblin thieves, but it was only after I'd dispatched them that I was besieged. So, (wealth > certain amount) and (has killed Goblins) maybe? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 23:09, 12 November 2007 (EST)

Actually, according to Toady (http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000033), Goblins will start sieging now roughly around 80 dwarves and/or some odd amount of wealth.

:I had 3 goblin snatchers show up at a population of 40 dwarves and created wealth of 63,793 (v0.27.169.33g). --[[User:Frond|Frond]] 22:17, 16 January 2008 (EST)

I think that the trigger amount is off by a bit- I just received my first siege, by goblins, at 57 population and about 411,000 wealth. --[[User:Linktoreality|Linktoreality]] 04:58, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Troll squads ==

I had 3 troll squads of exactly 8 trolls in each during a siege. Had a goblin king that time but no beak dogs. Can it be that no beak dogs in goblin civ=better chance for trolls?
:I been sieged at least half a dozain time in my current fortress, and I've never encountered trolls or anything bigger than skilled goblins. In my latest siege, all the goblins are specialised in something but I have no trolls or wolves or whatever to show for. Any idea on this behavior? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:16, 26 November 2007 (EST)
::Apperently they haven't access to any chasm biome for trolls and to whatever biome for beak dogs.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:42, 26 November 2007 (EST)

== Mounts ==

Woe betide those who anger humans. I added a second human race with [BABYSNATCHER] instead of [SIEGER] for barbarian raiding action. When they sieged, every last one of them was riding a horse. When I approached the buggers kept running away and going all Parthian shot on me, too. It was pretty bad ass. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:23, 10 November 2007 (EST)

== Still bugged? ==

Are sieges still bugged in 33b? If someone knows for certain, could they add the version number to the statement in the article? Ta. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 19:52, 18 November 2007 (EST)

i just got siege and i think the bug is still there cause just redownloaded it for erroring reasons...the goblins just sit there and wait for something...
im wondering if (thanks to the bug) the goblins well just die of thirst or something?? or well just o away?

:Yup, still bugged. Toady needs to rewrite the siege AI, 'tis not a simple bug. Goblins will go away on their own after a while, but that beats all the fun. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 15:04, 21 November 2007 (EST)
::Some people suggested on the forum building siege engines near the golin groups and fire to them to death. I'm trying to do just that in my current game. Alternatively, I think there is a flag in the init file where you can disable sieges. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:33, 21 November 2007 (EST)
:Has anyone looked into changing the raws for the goblins to have them a similar behavior to werewolves and other predatory creatures? They roam around the map looking for something to kill, and while they might not stay together in a squad, or move toward your base directly, at least they would do *something*... if it works. Any thoughts? --Gotthard 12:24, 30 November 2007 (EST)

:As of 33g I think they're still somewhat bugged. They will charge but if they find something to attack, it seems like their AI turns off and they stop on the spot. So I guess as long as you don't give them anything to attack on the way to your front gate, they will work fine. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 22:45, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Siege as a blockade ==

"A siege is a military blockade of a city or fortress with the intent of conquering by force or attrition, often accompanied by an assault. The term derives from the Latin word for "seat" or "sitting."[1] A siege occurs when an attacker encounters a city or fortress that refuses to surrender and cannot be easily taken by a frontal assault." --wikipedia

A siege isn't just a blind charge into your cage traps, either.
[[User:Moller|Moller]] 14:38, 3 December 2007 (EST)

My last few goblin seiges, have been actual seiges, instead of running around into my traps. The first of 3 squads ran in, about half fell victim to my traps, then ran, then the other 2 squads have been just waiting outside my fort, for 3 months and counting.

==Best way to counter sieges?==
So far, the best way I've found to counter sieges is to create a line of traps all around the map. You can't build them just next to the border of the map, only 5 or 6 squares away from it... However, goblins still walks around a little and often hit the traps. It's hard to create enough casualties in this way to stop them, but they hardly ever leave without giving me free stuff and free kills. :)
Alternatively, setting up balistas or catapults in front of them and firing away is also very rewarding. Too bad it's almost impossible to do without forbidding your dwarves from fetching everything outside, which usually mean that they'll get in the way even if you manage to forbid everything in time. I wish there was a way to allow military dwarves to operate siege engines...--[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:47, 3 December 2007 (EST)

: I agree. Traps are a great thing. I also save VERY often, and when a siege occurs, I will 'force quit' and revert to a previously saved game. Then I make all my dwarves soldiers and give them time to pick up their equipment. This has proven very successful.--[[User:Keesto|Keesto]] 23:46, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

== Human Leader / Mercenary? ==

I got my third or fourth goblin siege in the current game, and they arrived with a Human Spearmaster in one of their squads. Anyone else got this? Is it worth mentioning in this page?
:Confirmed: third siege. One of invaders is Human Macelord. He is a best attraction at my zoo right now :). Think, i'll add this. Whoops... someone already has :)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:33, 16 January 2008 (EST)
::My roommate had one in a group of ambushers. He was wearing a human leather earring, so that's lovely ;) --[[User:FloodSpectre|FloodSpectre]] 20:04, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

== Nifty defense plan ==

On an unrelated note, I figured a pretty nifty way to kill a lot (or all) of a siege by making an outdoors gatehouse with marksdwarves on the battlements... except instead of making it face OUT, I make it face IN, so I let the enemy inside and they get totally annihilated, as they are shot as soon as they appear :)

Something like this:
<pre>
########
=bolts=#
######@#
+@# g
+@# g
g +@# <- goblins on ground floor come this way
+@# g
+@# g
######@# g
=bolts=#
########
</pre>
This work specially well again enemy shooters, they don't even get a chance to shoot back (and it seems it's nearly impossible to hit my dwarves on higher ground AND behind fortifications).

--[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 23:23, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I recently tried a system like that, where the entrance hall is two floors tall, and I have a marksdwarf barracks on the floor above. They shoot plenty of goblins, and of course I have about 60 stonefall traps there too. I watched laughing as 66% of the goblins thought "AAAH RUN AWAY" and they retreated like sissies :D --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 11:25, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Stealth Sieges ==

It seems that in the new version that sieges don't give announcements anymore. I was still getting my fortress together when one of my woodcutters was ambushed by 10 or so goblins. They proceeded to charge my fort and get killed by the merchants and dogs. Then like 30 seconds later the second wave appeared unannouced at my door. The merchants were in no shape to stand against them and the dogs were all dead. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 15:31, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:This sounds more like an [[Ambush|ambush]] than a siege. I've had four seemingly seperate goblin ambush squads all assault my fortress at the same time (four seperate "An ambush! Curse them!"s), each of which was a lot more dangerous than my first siege! -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:00, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== quote from toady, december 27 ==
(so maybe parts of it changed)

"Humans and elves will come some time after they are angry enough at you.

Kobolds will start sending thieves once your pop hits 20 or you've traded a bit (value 500) or you've produced a bit more (value 5000). If they successfully steal objects, they'll come back with more thieves, and if they continue to be successful, they'll bring (buggy) archers. The power of the next attack is based only on how many objects were stolen during the last raid. They'll start sending archers if three or more objects are stolen.[]..they can send as many as 17 thieves and 36 archers, but this is incredibly unlikely. If the stolen object number is five or more, they'll start sending important historical figures.

Goblins start sending kidnappers when your population has hit 50 or you have traded a bit or produced a bit more (5x the kobold numbers). Once your population hits 80, they'll start to send more serious attacks instead of kidnappers on occasion. The numbers sent during the serious attacks depend only on how many attacks you've been through. If they have mounts or monsters(trolls?), they'll start using them on the second attack, with multiple monster packs on the third. Important historical figures also come with the third attack, but master weapon users can come on the second. Important kidnappers come on the second kidnapping attempt.

All of this will be obsolete once I get the armies working properly on the world map, though there will still have to be some artificial mechanism in place to stop early forts from being wiped out."

:Good, then I shall start war with the elves because there are no goblins.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 18:22, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

== Human Sieges ==

I am, right now in v0.28.181.39b, being besieged by about 14 humans, one of which is on a horse carrying a bow. "An enemy is laying siege" or some such came up instead of the usual "A vile force of darkness has arrived". Even stranger is that they built ''A Campfire'' and are just milling about around it. There is a clear path straight into the heart of my fortress. There is no sign of war on the civ screen. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 09:21, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
 It's even worse than that! They're actually doing siege tactics - they sit in their camp until someone goes outside, at which point they all set off to kill that poor sot. Then they return to camp. If it's not outside, they don't care. They also don't seem to be affected by any of my traps. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 11:52, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
:just wait until the campfire has burned down and then they will move to the fortress as the goblins do. It might take a while, so no need for hurry. I only had two human sieges in my current fortress until now, but they seem to increase in numbers as the goblins do.
:*first year: ~10 humans, not mounted, campfire
:*second year: ~20 humans, 2 squads, mounted. 1 squad with campfire, the second one just waited and had no campfire. After a while, they moved to the fortress, but not both squads at once.

:In my case (v0.28.181.39c), they were affected by my 2 weapon traps. At least at the second siege when they were mounted, during the first one when they had no horses, I had no traps, so I don't know if this has an effect.

:The text of the human siege is "The enemy have come and are laying siege to the fortress"

: In my fort the human guild representative died and once a caravan was slaughtered by an ambush.
:[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 18:24, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

::now in the 3rd year, a human diplomat arrived instead of the next siege and he offers the following options:
::''Peace is calling out to us. How do you respond?''
::Enter: ''I hear her voice. Let us stop this war.''
::Space: ''We will drown her out with the screams of your dying. Begone.''

::As I'm a beginner, as far as wikis are concerned, it would be nice if someone could update the article.
::[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:34, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
:::I've added it in, although I'm also a n00b at this wiki stuff, and kept forgetting important stuff. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:22, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::::thanks. As there aren't many reports about human sieges right now, it is a good start. -[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 03:09, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

: I have also received a human siege (v0.28.181.39e). Accidentally had the merchant diplomat locked in my fort - he 'left unhappy' (but he and the caravan were otherwise unscathed.) First summer - 10 unmounted humans; second summer - 50 humans, all mounted. Their campfire died down in Fall - it is now mid-Winter and they still haven't entered my fort. Instead they ride their horses in circles outside my gate. I have tried to bait them with expendable dwarfs but they just take them out with crossbows. Dwarven caravan did not even attempt to come in the Fall; also, no goblins or kobolds have dared to raid during the siege. All in all, a pretty effective siege as I do not have yet a military capable of attacking. (3rd year of fort). By the way, when the first siege force arrived I had fewer than 80 dwarves.
:[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 21:27, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Site finder

2008-09-15T01:12:53Z

OmegaX: Site Finder Lied

40d Talk:Giant eagle

2008-09-07T11:27:35Z

OmegaX:

More dangerous than [[carp|Carp]]? Oooh...we need a [[King of the beasts]] page just to debate the most evil of creatures.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 12:11, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

Are we sure that a giant eagle really gives 10 bones, and 10 meat? The thing must be the size of an elephant. That's more like a Roc, not an eagle.

:Well, that *is* basically what a Roc is. No one said how big 'giant' is. I wouldn't be surprised if giant eagles could eventually pick up and drop dwarves. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 02:30, 31 December 2007 (EST)

::Actually, there were real Giant Eagles before but they went extinct. They had a wingspan of 2.6m to 3m, according to Wikipedia. But then again, this would be a mythological Giant Eagle, so I guess it could be any size. Oh, and checking the coding on the thing, it's size is a little under 2/3 that of an Elephant, which for a bit of guidance, is on average about 3 meters tall.[[User:Plasma|Plasma]] 18:52, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

I have a couple of those GEs hovering in the middle of the map, any chance i could catch one? --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 12:09, 25 February 2008 (EST)
: I'd doubt it. You'd have to be pretty damn lucky to trap a flying creature in a cage on the ground. The only way you could do it would be to lure it into a corridor, as it means it won't be able to fly. [[User:Plasma|Plasma]] 18:52, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

== Dangerous??? ==

After this wiki page, I was really scared when at some point a zombie giant eagle occured and marched straight into my fortress. in the end, my untrained woodcutter slaughtered it and had to stay in bed for half a week due to minor injuries. The second zombie giant eagle was killed by a single skilled wrestler (very agile, so he was the first to arrive) without armour and without getting injured. Is the information on the page really correct? Or should it rather be "dangerous for non-military dwarves"? —Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] ([[User talk:Qwertyu|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Qwertyu|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}

: more so since sending peasants as recruits into the fray and see them die is not a proof that a creature is so especially dangerous. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 03:22, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

:Giant Eagles are so powerful because they use swift hit-and-run attacks, darting out of the sky to attack it's target, and return back to the sky, making it very hard to fight normally. Not only would a zombie Giant Eagle be much slower (and perhaps be on the ground too, I don't know), but having one stuck inside your fortress means that it can't fly at all. [[User:Plasma|Plasma]] 18:52, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

::Wait a second though. He said "marched straight into my fortress" as in not flying... as in nothing more than a plain zombie... Go figure that a walking bird that's meant to fly isn't dangerous! Personally, I doubt a flying GE would ever enter a fortress. Normal (or otherwise flying, do skel-GEs fly?) Giant Eagles are very dangerous *because* they fly. They easily avoid any dwarves that would be a danger to it, while picking off any peasant that goes outdoors. I haven't heard much talk about them since the z-level ranged attacks were fixed, (didn't use to shoot between z-levels for a bit after z's were implemented,) so perhaps the fact that they fly isn't a big problem if you've got a supply of bolts and a decent marksdwarf. But I could be wrong on both accounts, who knows? Proof is always welcome of either way! --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 05:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

::: Well, parts of my fortress needed a roof, that's how it entered. But don't attack undead everything? So if you send your military dwarves, it should attack them instead of some poor peasants, correct? Besides, especially the Zombie GE is so slow that even my exhausted half-time fighters (They had just practiced their wrestling with a group of skeletal hoary marmots) could outcrouch it, so I cannot imagine that it would make such an incredible killer even if it spent more time flying. -- [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 10:30, 10 March 2008 (CET)

::::Oh, but you haven't seen a skeletal eagle--the time I saw it, it was horrific...I brought six dogs with me to a terrifying mountain, and I was busy digging out a fort next to the volcano nearby. Then, I saw "______ cancels store item in stockpile: Interrupted by Skeletal giant eagle."
::::My god, that scared the hell out of me, and rightfully so. It SLAUGHTERED my six dogs with about what looked like one hit each (about a fourth of a second each kill) and then seemed to ''guard the wagon'' which had my supplies and about 20 more tin bars (I'd hauled about a third of them). It then came back later on to harrass the Solen building the water pumping system--which, for that matter, froze up later on.
::::EDIT: Yes, skeletal GEs fly.
::::...Man, that fort was...odd. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 12:11, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

:::::I had just started out in a calm area and looked on the unit list and saw a giant eagle, I couldn't stop my hunter from going after it and he was unfortunatley killed by it. Afterwards it was considered legend (I guess) and named Woodchoke. --[[User:DUMBELLS|DUMBELLS]] 15:09, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
:::::Ah, I remember I had a similar situation. Only replaced "six dogs" with "six dwarves". Owch. And, in case you're wondering, the seventh dwarf didn't escape, he just got mauled by a Skeletal Mountain Goat. [[User:Plasma|Plasma]] 18:46, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
::::::As others have said, the thing that makes giant eagles dangerous is their flight. At least you can generally keep your dwarves away from elephants or place traps to keep them away from your dwarves. It's probably almost impossible to stop a giant eagle with a trap, and you can't even keep track of its position because civilian dwarves don't seem to be scared by it till it drops to their Z-level - if it's flying around six levels above that road you're building, none of your dwarves will sound the alarm until it swoops down out of nowhere to eviscerate a peasant. It's probably not anywhere near as tough as an elephant in melee combat (a single war dog, though mortally wounded in the process, managed to knock one out long enough for me to notice and send a dwarf to finish it off), but the psychological torment more than makes up for it - it's silent and deadly. Topping it all off is that while marksdwarves make short work of it, marksdwarves are just about the only thing that can kill it on your terms. If you don't have any, you have to just have to wait around and hope it attacks someone strong enough to take it out. [[User:Gelmax|Gelmax]] 01:48, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

:When I saw a Skeletal Giant Eagle appear, due to the article I was terrified. Needless to say, they are no where near as dangerous as they are made out to be. 2 semi-trained marksdwarves and a recruit marksdwarf were able to kill it with only one loss. I don't think the article is doing any favors to new players by encouraging them to abandon their fortress at the sight of one. --[[User:Aristoi|Aristoi]] 15:31, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

::When I encountered one in Adventure mode as a professional Hammerer i was pretty scared but I killed it in one hit!! [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 15:38, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

::BTW: Wouldn't there be an option to bring it down with just some recruits? As an idea: Two waves: One consisting of wrestling recruits (say 2-3), the other one consisting of your somewhat skilled miners, and an axe carrier (if you have one). It comes down to engage the first three dwarves, the second group should be able to tear it apart, especially due to the axe. Worked nicely with a giant bat (however, this was killed even by a lone axedwarf). [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 07:27, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

:I had a Giant Eagle (non-undead, thankfully) hanging out on the north end of the map on my current fortress (v0.28.181.40c). Fearing for my dorfs, I kept them inside for the better part of the next year after it arrived. The following summer, I forced the human caravan to arrive on the west end of the map, but their Guild Representative spawned literally twenty tiles away from the GE. The weird thing is that the GE ''fled'' from the ''unarmed, unskilled'' Guild Rep. It hasn't been seen since. [[User:Thrawn|Thrawn]] 13:58, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

::Well, many of the dangerous living creatures do not attack automatically, but only sometimes. Fire imps also flee from your dwarves most of the time, but you should not count on it. [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 07:27, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

DO NOT BE FOOLED. Skeletal Giant Eagles are flying death machines, it luckily left my dwarves alone for a few years, then one day decided to kill my hunter. My hunter managed to injure it, but was torn to shreds (10 dwarf chunks!). -OmegaX