Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d Talk:Screw pump

2008-10-29T03:27:13Z

Pavlov: glass and magma

{{archive|
#[[Talk:Screw pump|Current discussion]]
#[[Talk:Screw pump/archive1|Archive1]]
}}

== Archiving ==

See [[/archive1]] for discussions before July '08.
Most discussion was regarding page development which has been implemented. There are a few comments which might help people trying to work things out but most of it is in the article.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:56, 5 July 2008 (EDT)

==Two versions of the L-shaped tunnels design==
As I said when I removed it, there is no point having two. Do not add mine back in again. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 21:57, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

You'd also cut how to set up water wheels & connect them to the pump tower. I wasn't 100% certain how to diagram connecting the wheels to the smaller tower design so I thought it best to restore the whole section until someone added that into the L-shape design. [[User:Calenth|Calenth]]

== Pumping Magma? ==

Would this work if the pump was made of magma-safe materials? --[[User:Mizzy|Mizzy]] 21:10, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

:Please check a talk page's [[Talk:Screw_pump/archive1#Materials_for_magma_pumps|archives]] before asking a question. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 02:46, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

:An edit to the [[Stupid dwarf trick]] page implied that only the blocks need be made of magma-safe materials. This needs to be studied further. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 17:28, 2 August 2008 (EDT)
::I have been building magma pumps out of wood (pipe/screw) and stone blocks for ages now; there are no detrimental effects. Since non-bauxite/non-raw adamantine stones are not magma safe, presumably a wooden block will work as well (a waste of logs if you have stone, though). It is only an issue if any part of the pump (namely, the walkable end) is going to be submerged in magma. You're probably working with a poor design if your pumps are submerged in what they're pumping, but whatever. In that case your best bet is to use green glass tubes/screws/blocks, if you have sand. Metal is a last resort. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 20:59, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
:::Wait - glass is magma-safe? what's its melting point? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 23:29, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Glass itself appears to be hardcoded and from what I can tell does not have a melting point. Pretty sure glass is magma safe. I have never had problems with it. It's a nice way to get infinite tubes and corkscrews. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 23:27, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Just tried to build a pump using a nickel block with a wooden screw and a wooden tube. All it created was a huge mess and a bit of smoke and fire. Luckily, the pump is separated enough from my fort that I can just let the magma cool before moving back in.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 00:57, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
:Did you make sure the magma coming out of the pump (on the same z-level of the pump) couldn't go back around and over the back of the pump? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:56, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
::Hmm...actually, I had to cut a whole because the dwarf who constructed it had the bright idea to get himself stuck by standing on the walkable tile. I guess maybe I should put a door there to allow access while blocking the magma next time to make sure it work.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 12:59, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

== Self powered pumps ==

So I'm just starting a new fortress, its got everything but an easy to make moat, but there is a river start to the east a little and two or three levels lower than my entrance. So, what I'm wondering is, is there some easy way to get a hydraulic powered pump going off of the power of the water being pumped (after the dwarves do the initial pumping). Also if anyone has diagrams or something of how to easily bring water up two or three levels (or possibly higher if theres some advantage to having water fall from a height). Sorry if this is kind of stupid or answered or anything, last time I played the game it had 1 level and I never got too much into mechanics farther than floodgates (lots of complicated and redundant floodgates as I recall) so I've never tried a pump or waterwheel. I'd rather not screw up this map (its just short of perfect, major magnemite deposits with limestone being the main component to the mountain overall, access to every civ, its Cold [I'm from Canada so I like the cold], has good hunting and a major river start). Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 15:43, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

:Place a waterwheel in the original river to supply power. You can raise water multiple levels by the methods described [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|here]]. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:01, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
::Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:57, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

Note that if you bring the water up higher than the moat, it '''will''' (not might. will.) overtop your moat. That's a good way to flood your fortress. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:07, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

An example of the [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|multi-level pump]] including power source, gear assemblies and axles would pretty much make my entire month. Anyone up to the challenge? Pretty please? [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 22:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

== Front vs rear ==

Do I understand correctly that the 'front' tile (i.e. blocks water flow) is the one where the water comes out of?

Sort of - it actually just 'spawns' water in the tile on the opposite side of that tile from the rear walkable tile, an amount equal to that which is removed a z-level down. --[[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]] 16:19, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

But either way, the output side blocks flow (so if in a narrow channel water cannot backflow through the pump if it is turned off), right? I need to know this for a design. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:31, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

: Yes, you are correct. I too was confused by the use of the word "front", as my perception is that the "front" of a pump would be where the water goes in, not out. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 04:14, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

== Alternate vs. other ==

Alternate generally means "in turn" or "in place of" -- not "as an alternative".[http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000296.htm][http://cjrarchives.org/tools/lc/alt.asp] But "alternative" can have its own problems,[http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/alternate.html] which is why I would recommend "other uses" here.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:While I appreciate the need for clarity, I don't think either word particularly changes the scope, knowledge, breadth or content of the page. I suggest that both words work equally well. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:31, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

::May I ask for people's permission, then, to change it to 'other'? The function of the page may not be substantially affected by it, but I hate to be unable to correct what I understand to be an error. 'Course, if no one agrees, I'll let it drop.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 11:28, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

== Pump + Stairs = Win? ==

Is there any reason why I can't use the stairs as the open space that I'm pumping water from?

Side View Top Views Key
###### ######
#v->__ #v->^# -> or <- : Direction of pump
#^<-v# ###### v : down stairs
#v->^# #^<-v# ^ : up stairs
#^<-v# ###### # : Wall
____^# _ : space

I came up with this right after exiting the game. I'll try it out soon. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:02, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:No reason you couldn't, but it'd be rather silly as your dwarves can't walk through the pump. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:58, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Screw pump

2008-10-28T00:59:56Z

Pavlov: pumping magma - wood+stone is fine

{{archive|
#[[Talk:Screw pump|Current discussion]]
#[[Talk:Screw pump/archive1|Archive1]]
}}

== Archiving ==

See [[/archive1]] for discussions before July '08.
Most discussion was regarding page development which has been implemented. There are a few comments which might help people trying to work things out but most of it is in the article.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:56, 5 July 2008 (EDT)

==Two versions of the L-shaped tunnels design==
As I said when I removed it, there is no point having two. Do not add mine back in again. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 21:57, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

You'd also cut how to set up water wheels & connect them to the pump tower. I wasn't 100% certain how to diagram connecting the wheels to the smaller tower design so I thought it best to restore the whole section until someone added that into the L-shape design. [[User:Calenth|Calenth]]

== Pumping Magma? ==

Would this work if the pump was made of magma-safe materials? --[[User:Mizzy|Mizzy]] 21:10, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

:Please check a talk page's [[Talk:Screw_pump/archive1#Materials_for_magma_pumps|archives]] before asking a question. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 02:46, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

:An edit to the [[Stupid dwarf trick]] page implied that only the blocks need be made of magma-safe materials. This needs to be studied further. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 17:28, 2 August 2008 (EDT)
::I have been building magma pumps out of wood (pipe/screw) and stone blocks for ages now; there are no detrimental effects. Since non-bauxite/non-raw adamantine stones are not magma safe, presumably a wooden block will work as well (a waste of logs if you have stone, though). It is only an issue if any part of the pump (namely, the walkable end) is going to be submerged in magma. You're probably working with a poor design if your pumps are submerged in what they're pumping, but whatever. In that case your best bet is to use green glass tubes/screws/blocks, if you have sand. Metal is a last resort. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 20:59, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

== Self powered pumps ==

So I'm just starting a new fortress, its got everything but an easy to make moat, but there is a river start to the east a little and two or three levels lower than my entrance. So, what I'm wondering is, is there some easy way to get a hydraulic powered pump going off of the power of the water being pumped (after the dwarves do the initial pumping). Also if anyone has diagrams or something of how to easily bring water up two or three levels (or possibly higher if theres some advantage to having water fall from a height). Sorry if this is kind of stupid or answered or anything, last time I played the game it had 1 level and I never got too much into mechanics farther than floodgates (lots of complicated and redundant floodgates as I recall) so I've never tried a pump or waterwheel. I'd rather not screw up this map (its just short of perfect, major magnemite deposits with limestone being the main component to the mountain overall, access to every civ, its Cold [I'm from Canada so I like the cold], has good hunting and a major river start). Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 15:43, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

:Place a waterwheel in the original river to supply power. You can raise water multiple levels by the methods described [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|here]]. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:01, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
::Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:57, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

Note that if you bring the water up higher than the moat, it '''will''' (not might. will.) overtop your moat. That's a good way to flood your fortress. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:07, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

An example of the [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|multi-level pump]] including power source, gear assemblies and axles would pretty much make my entire month. Anyone up to the challenge? Pretty please? [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 22:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

== Front vs rear ==

Do I understand correctly that the 'front' tile (i.e. blocks water flow) is the one where the water comes out of?

Sort of - it actually just 'spawns' water in the tile on the opposite side of that tile from the rear walkable tile, an amount equal to that which is removed a z-level down. --[[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]] 16:19, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

But either way, the output side blocks flow (so if in a narrow channel water cannot backflow through the pump if it is turned off), right? I need to know this for a design. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:31, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

: Yes, you are correct. I too was confused by the use of the word "front", as my perception is that the "front" of a pump would be where the water goes in, not out. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 04:14, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

== Alternate vs. other ==

Alternate generally means "in turn" or "in place of" -- not "as an alternative".[http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000296.htm][http://cjrarchives.org/tools/lc/alt.asp] But "alternative" can have its own problems,[http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/alternate.html] which is why I would recommend "other uses" here.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:While I appreciate the need for clarity, I don't think either word particularly changes the scope, knowledge, breadth or content of the page. I suggest that both words work equally well. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:31, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

::May I ask for people's permission, then, to change it to 'other'? The function of the page may not be substantially affected by it, but I hate to be unable to correct what I understand to be an error. 'Course, if no one agrees, I'll let it drop.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 11:28, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

== Pump + Stairs = Win? ==

Is there any reason why I can't use the stairs as the open space that I'm pumping water from?

Side View Top Views Key
###### ######
#v->__ #v->^# -> or <- : Direction of pump
#^<-v# ###### v : down stairs
#v->^# #^<-v# ^ : up stairs
#^<-v# ###### # : Wall
____^# _ : space

I came up with this right after exiting the game. I'll try it out soon. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:02, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

40d:Murky pool

2008-10-24T19:59:38Z

Pavlov: dirt road on murky pool

Murky pools are small pools of [[water]] one [[Z-axis|Z-Level]] deep on the surface of the map. Dwarves with the [[fishing]] job active will attempt to [[fish]] in them. Murky pools can evaporate completely in summer in sufficiently hot climates, or can be drained manually, but in either case can be refilled by rainwater or melting snow or ice.

Drinking from a murky pool will give dwarves an unhappy [[thought]]. Dwarves will not normally drink from murky pools if they can at all help it; they will prefer to remain thirsty instead of drinking from a murky pool, holding out for the hope that [[well]] [[water]] or some [[alcohol]] will be produced in the mean time. However, if there are no other water sources that present themselves, dwarves will eventually force themselves to drink from a murky pool when they become very thirsty.

==Removing==

Removing murky pools is as simple as digging them out the same way you'd dig anything out. Just watch out for the water. Alternatively you can lay down (unpaved) dirt roads over the murky pool tiles.

== Refill? ==

Some people have [http://dwarvenpassion.smfforfree3.com/index.php/topic,17.0.html claimed] that murky pools fill with water during the rains. {{verify}}

[[Category:map tiles]]

40d Talk:Murky pool

2008-10-24T19:58:15Z

Pavlov:

"Drinking from a murky pool will give dwarves an unhappy thought."

But drinking from a well that is fed by a murky pool via a channel is okay?

Yes it works exactly like that. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 17:13, 12 February 2008 (EST)
:Water will still be stagnant. Dunno if this does something. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 21:19, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

"Murky pool can (will?) completely drain in summer."

This detail needs clarification. According to my experience, it varies by the temperature of the region; I believe spading is in order. [[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 9:58, 2 April 2008 (EST)

== Can a murky pool be re-designated? ==

I accidentally dug into the bottom of an outdoor pool (darn diagonals) and the pool drained into my silt/loam farming rooms. After the water dried out (adding a muddy element to my farms) I was left with the murky pool. Can't build a farm plot on it. Before removing it, I was wondering if I covered it by adding floor above it, could it be used somehow when it changes from outdoor to inside?--[[User:Dwarven Gemologist|Gemmy]] 15:06, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

:Seems it would be quite possible. Feel free to try it and report your results. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:51, 3 May 2008 (EDT)
::Just farm aboveground plants. Many of them are better than underground ones in many ways. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 21:21, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

The information here may be outdated. With an unmodified version of v0.28.181.40d I was able to channel out the tiles in a murky pool after draining it. Can anyone else try this and confirm? [[User:Forsaken1111|Forsaken1111]] 22:16, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

== Refilling ==

I have seen murky pools refilled by rain, sometimes all the way, sometimes partially, sometimes not at all. I believe it has to do with the amount of rain versus the ambient temperature (and therefore evaporation rate). --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 15:58, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

40d:Stupid dwarf trick

2008-09-20T17:36:18Z

Pavlov: /* Swimming pool */

{{D for Dwarf}}

A '''stupid dwarf trick''' is any project that that requires a large amount time and effort, for little or no practical benefit. They exist only as a challenge for experienced players.

==Monumental Statue==

'''Difficulty:''' Depends on how big you want the statue to be.

'''Usefulness:''' None.

==Artificial Waterfall==
To keep the waterfall going, you need a [[pump]] stack, preferably powered by a [[windmill]] or [[water wheel]].

'''Difficulty:''' Moderate.

'''Usefulness:''' Dwarves love [[waterfall]]s. Putting a waterfall in your [[meeting hall]] will give your dwarves good [[thought]]s, although it can significantly lower framerate.

==Execution Tower==
Just a tall tower to chuck your captives to their deaths.

'''Difficulty:''' Easy.

'''Usefulness:''' Lets you dispose of prisoners, and claim expensive silk, meltable iron, and (eventually) useful bones.

==Bridge-a-pult==
A bridge that opens outwards, to fling enemies away. Ideally, they land in a very nasty place.

'''Difficulty:''' The hard part is the nasty place they get flung to.

'''Usefulness:''' There are a lot more effective ways to defend a fortress, but not as entertaining.

==Dam==
Build a wall across a riverbed to stop the flow of water. Floodgates optional.

'''Difficulty:''' On a map that freezes in the winter, this is easy. Otherwise, very difficult.

'''Usefulness:''' Dubious.

==[[Tower-cap]] Farm==
You absolutely need to break into an underground river or lake. Make some muddy floors over a big area and wait.

'''Difficulty:''' Moderate.

'''Usefulness:''' Yes, if it's big enough.

==Magma Pumping==
It's a lot like pumping water, only more dangerous, and requires the [[screw pump|pumps]] to use magma-proof blocks in their construction. {{verify}}

'''Difficulty:''' The difficult part is making all those bauxite pumps and floodgates. Very high risk.

'''Usefulness:''' Magma is fun, but impractical.

==Booze Bomb==
If you set barrels of booze on fire they explode. Can possibly be used as a complex trap. About the only way to start a fire on demand is magma. Possibly caged fire imps or magma men.

'''Difficulty:''' High.

'''Usefulness:''' There many easier ways to kill goblins, but few that set them on fire.

==Greenhouse==
A [[greenhouse]] is just a farm with the the ceiling channeled out from above. This lets you grow outdoor plants without venturing above ground. For the maximum style, build a glass roof to keep your farmers safe.

'''Difficulty:''' Low.

'''Usefulness:''' Surface plants are not so much more useful than underground crops. [[Rope reed]] can be grown year round.

==Gladiator Arena==
'''Difficulty:''' Moderate, but time consuming.

'''Usefulness:''' The most difficult way to dispose of prisoners. It does give your soldiers a little bit of experience.

==Self Destruct Lever==
'''Difficulty:''' Very high. Extremely dangerous.

'''Usefulness:''' None. By definition.

==Flood the World==
'''Difficulty:''' High danger. Will kill your frame rate.

'''Usefulness:''' Will prevent any sieges, at least. Or anything else.

==[[Ballista]] Battery==
Overlap a few ballistas to completely cover a narrow corridor. There is an unavoidable risk of your operators wandering into the line of fire.

'''Difficulty:''' Low. If you insist on highly-trained operators with high-quality ballistas, it gets harder.

'''Usefulness:''' A complicated and dangerous way to defend a single corridor.

==[[Swimming]] pool==
It's a reservoir that fills to 4/7 exactly. Station soldiers inside, lock them in, and fill. This way they gain [[swimming]] skill.

'''Difficulty:''' Low. It's just a pair of reservoirs.

'''Usefulness:''' The swimming skill is only slightly useful. This is most useful if the entrance to your fort has narrow walkways/moats surrounded by water, and you station your soldiers there.

==[[Ice]] tower==
'''Difficulty:''' Low. You need to be on a freezing map to pull it off.

'''Usefulness:''' None.

==[[Obsidian]] factory==
You need one reservoir of water, and one of magma. Mix, cool and mine.

'''Difficulty:''' Medium.

'''Usefulness:''' High.

==Drowning Chamber==
'''Difficulty:''' Moderate.

'''Usefulness:''' You can kill prisoners, useless peasants, irate nobles, hammerers, untrainable animals, or anything else.

==Magma Chamber==
'''Difficulty:''' Dangerous as any magma project.

'''Usefulness:''' It's like a drowning chamber, but you can't recover most of the victim's stuff.

==Labyrinth==
'''Difficulty:''' It's a lot of mining. Having a bridge drop invaders inside is more difficult, but more useful.

'''Usefulness:''' It makes a nice element of fortress defense, and you can dump your prisoners inside it.

==[[Adventure Mode]] Fortress==
'''Difficulty:''' The sky's the limit.

'''Usefulness:''' Not applicable.

==Vomitorium==
It's like the greenhouse, only instead of a farm, it's meeting hall. Prevents [[cave adaption]].

'''Difficulty:''' Low.

'''Usefulness:''' Low.

==Pit o' Doom==
Combine with an Execution Tower for maximum z-level executions! Spike traps are a must.

'''Difficulty:''' Low. You want it nice and deep though.

'''Usefulness:''' Dispose of prisoners, execute nobles, gruesome fatal injuries, laugh maniacally.

40d Talk:Plate mail

2008-08-07T02:54:38Z

Pavlov:

how much is platemail worth? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 19:37, 5 January 2008 (EST)
:Just about all items have their base and multipliers [[Value|here]]. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 20:05, 5 January 2008 (EST)

== how to make dwarves wear plate ==

I've set a lot of dwarves to wear plate in order to get it out of my stockpile. As soon as I draft them, they put it on, but when I relieve them, they put it back in the stockpile. is there any way to make them wear it when they're not soldiering? is there any reason they shouldn't wear it around town, as it were? --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 18:23, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

: I believe you can do this by turning on their "Hunting" labor, but at the same time they will actively hunt things. Since wildlife (apparently) can be depleted rather quickly, this might work. [[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 22:54, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Activity zone

2008-07-30T08:46:22Z

Pavlov:

==Proposed move==
should this page be moved to the singluar title "Activity zone" ?
(unsigned/unknown [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:59, 4 July 2008 (EDT))

==Force drinking location==
Any advice how to get dwarves really drink where I want them?
I have one space water supply zone at the end of channel so the zone is above the floodgate) and then I have another 12 space zone around a little pond.. still all the dwarves run all the way to the brook for drink. (..yea yea, I know, I need booze. sorry for beeing slow)
--Shiona
:under the orders menu, along with the only farmers harvest and refuse type orders, there is an option for zones, under that submenu you can say 'prefer to drink/fish at zone' 'only drink/fish at zone' which might be what you need. Also make sure you are setting the zones to a type and not just designating them. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 05:27, 6 November 2007 (EST)

==Vertigo when filling ponds?==
This is not really related to zones, but I have a pond my dwarves are filling, which is three levels deep. They seem to be suffering from extreme vertigo; they keep filling a bucket, dumping it in, and then staggering away stunned and nauseous. There's vomit ''all over'' my pond now.
- [[User:Clockwork|Clockwork]] 19:20, 18 November 2007 (EST)
:That sounds like cave adjustment to me. When's the last time they've been outside before that problem arose? If dwarves spend too long underground, they'll get accustomed to it, to the point that being hit by sunlight again will give them the exact symptoms you just described. The pond has nothing to do with it, aside from the fact that they're outside while filling it. --[[User:Hesitris|Hesitris]] 22:42, 18 November 2007 (EST)

== Garbage dump ==
The following sentence is self contradicting. "Each ground tile within that zone is considered a garbage dump tile; thus, if you want to place a single-tile zone, place the zone onto a ground tile (optionally adjacent to a cliff or pit), not onto an open space." It needs correcting, one way or the other. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 04:49, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

==Wiki style question==
while reading articles in this wiki, i sometimes see keyboard keys described as being "pushed" (for example, under Construction in [[Well]]), sometimes as being "used" (link) and sometimes just Shortcut {{k|w}} (for example, [[Dump]]). can i use any of these in articles that i wish to add to the wiki? -[[User:Anachron|Anachron]]
:There is a lack of consistency. Fix it all! or adopt the (non)standard that already exists... the real answer is see the [[rule]]s. If it's not covered and you think it should be.... work out where it should go![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:59, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

==Animal pits==
Is this how I am meant to keep all my herd animals in the same place (I'd prefer not to cage them, I don't know why...)? Are they gonna get hurt when I drop them down a z-level?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:59, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
:Now I think I have an issue that...
::I have a passage leading to a channel. The channel and one floor tile before it are my pit zones.
::Below that is a room with a s-bend corridor with several doors marked "Passable" (ie not passable to pets).
:It seems that my dwarves want to drop an animal into the pit. Then go downstairs, pick it up, and do it again.
:I am confused![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:04, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
===After a night of sleep===
Alright. I now have an animal pit activity zone. Below it is a room with an S-bend corridor with three doors marked '''Passable''' (for dwarves only).
There are "several" animals in the pit.
My question: When I {{k|i}} on the zone, then {{k|P}}, does it show me the animals who have already been put in the pit or not? I would have thought it would be like a cage, showing all animals but putting a special character next to the ones already in the pit.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:01, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

::Unfortunately there is no way to tell if an animal has been placed in a pit. So when you assign animals to a pit, it is a one-shot thing only - a dwarf will pit the animal, then there will be no indication that the animal is there the next time you look at the list. It would be nice if we could designate areas as pits, where the areas would act as 'stockpiles' or 'cages' that track which animals are in them.[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 04:46, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Tower-cap

2008-07-29T01:39:17Z

Pavlov: caps w/o mud & rock clearing

this is hard to do? my girlfriend has several ponds just inside the ground of her diggings in various locations...
:Luck dependent. Not reliable.
Regarding the three-year thing: I dug a couple of tree farm chambers (each 21x21) on the bottom level of my fort. It took about 8 months to set up the irrigation system, after which I flooded most of each chamber. One year later, I have my first mature tower-cap; there are about 50 more juvenile tower-caps, so we'll see how much of an outlier this is. But three years is almost certainly wrong; it was solid rock 20 months ago. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 18:47, 28 November 2007 (EST)

Conjecture: The reason you can't bring tower-cap spawn nor plant them is because trees and shrubs are coded differently; you can plant the latter but not the former. And tower-caps are a variety of tree. Therefore, we will not be able to plant tower-caps until Toady unifies plants like he did for ore and stone. Just as we can now smooth and engrave ore veins. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:01, 10 December 2007 (EST)

You have a GirlFriend?--[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 13:07, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Natural vs carved-out ponds ==

Is it essential that the pond is already there? 
What if I do what I'm doing at the moment and drain a surface pond (well a few actually...) into a subterrenean pond...? 
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:37, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

:Huh? You're talking about where the article said you had to discover an underground pond, right? It isn't true - the author meant "lake." You'll get a pop-up message if you discover an underground lake or river.
:IMO, tower-cap growing isn't useful unless you want a large metalsmithing/glass industry and didn't settle with magma - traders will, if asked, bring quite a lot of wood. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:47, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

::Some people will most certainly argue about the cost of wood by trading but atleast you get some exported/imported wealth figures and thus work towards nobles. But the feature is nice to have, even if we still don't have the seeds. And for regions without trees it goes without saying that tree farms would be a gift from the gods. 
::--[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 02:47, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Cost of wood? What? It's 3☼ each! And why are tree farms needed if I don't have trees? I build in a desert. No trees there, and I have about a hundred unused wood. Granted, I haven't started the clear glass industry or the siege industry, but wood is only needed for beds, clear/crystal glass, and siege engine parts. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:08, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Personally I always choose to live near a forest, but it's quite acceptable to buy wood from traders. Though you may run into dry-spells if the caravans don't come for a year. I'd recommend having at least 100 logs at any time. Just in case you need to build lots of beds. You can build most other things from stone instead. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 11:13, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::I presume you're living next to a volcano in that desert, since 3 metal bars per bin or barrel is 4 bars more than I'm willing to use, and 3 bars plus fuel is just nuts. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 14:03, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Aye. Why live in a desert if not for massive glass industries?
:::::Oh, and I don't make bins or barrels with anything – they aren't needed and are in fact annoying if you have OCD management. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:35, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::Hm.. I suppose that would work if you don't make [[Dwarven syrup]]... --[[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 16:39, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::::I don't – I find it as cheaty as boozecooking, which is easier, and almost identical to boozecooking. However, I do boozecook, which does use a lot of barrels for alcohol. If you buy barreled stuff from caravans and ask for it in the trade agreement, you can easily get a lot of barrels.
:::::::Worst case, you'll use up all your barrels. Then, all you have to do is put more labor sooner into cooking the stuff. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:49, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::::Was just saying, that some might complain about it. I myself seem to never have enough barrels for alcohol after I get a population over 30. I just like to have an "emergency" warehouse of booze, which takes barrels upon barrels... And syrup is always handy to have around. Also, in my personal opinion, all space-saving is good. --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 04:30, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::::::Hmmm, you must have some gigantic storerooms then savok!  --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:25, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::::::Not really. I quickly get rid of everything except prepared meals and booze, and I trade away prepared meals under ten food units.  --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:21, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

== Spontaneous generation and rocks ==
I have had tower-caps spawn in underground soil, far from my irrigated area and without any muddiness or exposure to the outside. (Though not many). Also, I assume you have to clear rocks in order for them to spawn on muddy cavern tiles?
[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 21:39, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Siege

2008-07-29T01:27:14Z

Pavlov:

===Trigger?===
Just noticed that I got my first (Goblin) siege at 100000 wealth. Anyone else confirm that this is the trigger? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 00:06, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:I had my first goblin siege at about 600k wealth. They sieged me at 15 levels above ground level, where I had a stairway to my fortress. They loitered around for a season and left. [[User:Kaivosukeltaja|Kaivosukeltaja]] 07:31, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::Thanks. I removed my addition from the article. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:35, 9 November 2007 (EST)

I think part of the trigger is killing a Goblin. I'd captured several Goblin thieves, but it was only after I'd dispatched them that I was besieged. So, (wealth > certain amount) and (has killed Goblins) maybe? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 23:09, 12 November 2007 (EST)

Actually, according to Toady (http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000033), Goblins will start sieging now roughly around 80 dwarves and/or some odd amount of wealth.

:I had 3 goblin snatchers show up at a population of 40 dwarves and created wealth of 63,793 (v0.27.169.33g). --[[User:Frond|Frond]] 22:17, 16 January 2008 (EST)

I think that the trigger amount is off by a bit- I just received my first siege, by goblins, at 57 population and about 411,000 wealth. --[[User:Linktoreality|Linktoreality]] 04:58, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Troll squads ==

I had 3 troll squads of exactly 8 trolls in each during a siege. Had a goblin king that time but no beak dogs. Can it be that no beak dogs in goblin civ=better chance for trolls?
:I been sieged at least half a dozain time in my current fortress, and I've never encountered trolls or anything bigger than skilled goblins. In my latest siege, all the goblins are specialised in something but I have no trolls or wolves or whatever to show for. Any idea on this behavior? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:16, 26 November 2007 (EST)
::Apperently they haven't access to any chasm biome for trolls and to whatever biome for beak dogs.--[[User:Another|Another]] 15:42, 26 November 2007 (EST)

== Mounts ==

Woe betide those who anger humans. I added a second human race with [BABYSNATCHER] instead of [SIEGER] for barbarian raiding action. When they sieged, every last one of them was riding a horse. When I approached the buggers kept running away and going all Parthian shot on me, too. It was pretty bad ass. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 02:23, 10 November 2007 (EST)

== Still bugged? ==

Are sieges still bugged in 33b? If someone knows for certain, could they add the version number to the statement in the article? Ta. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 19:52, 18 November 2007 (EST)

i just got siege and i think the bug is still there cause just redownloaded it for erroring reasons...the goblins just sit there and wait for something...
im wondering if (thanks to the bug) the goblins well just die of thirst or something?? or well just o away?

:Yup, still bugged. Toady needs to rewrite the siege AI, 'tis not a simple bug. Goblins will go away on their own after a while, but that beats all the fun. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 15:04, 21 November 2007 (EST)
::Some people suggested on the forum building siege engines near the golin groups and fire to them to death. I'm trying to do just that in my current game. Alternatively, I think there is a flag in the init file where you can disable sieges. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 16:33, 21 November 2007 (EST)
:Has anyone looked into changing the raws for the goblins to have them a similar behavior to werewolves and other predatory creatures? They roam around the map looking for something to kill, and while they might not stay together in a squad, or move toward your base directly, at least they would do *something*... if it works. Any thoughts? --Gotthard 12:24, 30 November 2007 (EST)

:As of 33g I think they're still somewhat bugged. They will charge but if they find something to attack, it seems like their AI turns off and they stop on the spot. So I guess as long as you don't give them anything to attack on the way to your front gate, they will work fine. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 22:45, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Siege as a blockade ==

"A siege is a military blockade of a city or fortress with the intent of conquering by force or attrition, often accompanied by an assault. The term derives from the Latin word for "seat" or "sitting."[1] A siege occurs when an attacker encounters a city or fortress that refuses to surrender and cannot be easily taken by a frontal assault." --wikipedia

A siege isn't just a blind charge into your cage traps, either.
[[User:Moller|Moller]] 14:38, 3 December 2007 (EST)

==Best way to counter sieges?==
So far, the best way I've found to counter sieges is to create a line of traps all around the map. You can't build them just next to the border of the map, only 5 or 6 squares away from it... However, goblins still walks around a little and often hit the traps. It's hard to create enough casualties in this way to stop them, but they hardly ever leave without giving me free stuff and free kills. :)
Alternatively, setting up balistas or catapults in front of them and firing away is also very rewarding. Too bad it's almost impossible to do without forbidding your dwarves from fetching everything outside, which usually mean that they'll get in the way even if you manage to forbid everything in time. I wish there was a way to allow military dwarves to operate siege engines...--[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:47, 3 December 2007 (EST)

== Human Leader / Mercenary? ==

I got my third or fourth goblin siege in the current game, and they arrived with a Human Spearmaster in one of their squads. Anyone else got this? Is it worth mentioning in this page?
:Confirmed: third siege. One of invaders is Human Macelord. He is a best attraction at my zoo right now :). Think, i'll add this. Whoops... someone already has :)--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:33, 16 January 2008 (EST)

== Nifty defense plan ==

On an unrelated note, I figured a pretty nifty way to kill a lot (or all) of a siege by making an outdoors gatehouse with marksdwarves on the battlements... except instead of making it face OUT, I make it face IN, so I let the enemy inside and they get totally annihilated, as they are shot as soon as they appear :)

Something like this:
<pre>
########
=bolts=#
######@#
+@# g
+@# g
g +@# <- goblins on ground floor come this way
+@# g
+@# g
######@# g
=bolts=#
########
</pre>
This work specially well again enemy shooters, they don't even get a chance to shoot back (and it seems it's nearly impossible to hit my dwarves on higher ground AND behind fortifications).

--[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 23:23, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:Yeah, I recently tried a system like that, where the entrance hall is two floors tall, and I have a marksdwarf barracks on the floor above. They shoot plenty of goblins, and of course I have about 60 stonefall traps there too. I watched laughing as 66% of the goblins thought "AAAH RUN AWAY" and they retreated like sissies :D --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 11:25, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Stealth Sieges ==

It seems that in the new version that sieges don't give announcements anymore. I was still getting my fortress together when one of my woodcutters was ambushed by 10 or so goblins. They proceeded to charge my fort and get killed by the merchants and dogs. Then like 30 seconds later the second wave appeared unannouced at my door. The merchants were in no shape to stand against them and the dogs were all dead. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 15:31, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:This sounds more like an [[Ambush|ambush]] than a siege. I've had four seemingly seperate goblin ambush squads all assault my fortress at the same time (four seperate "An ambush! Curse them!"s), each of which was a lot more dangerous than my first siege! -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:00, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== quote from toady, december 27 ==
(so maybe parts of it changed)

"Humans and elves will come some time after they are angry enough at you.

Kobolds will start sending thieves once your pop hits 20 or you've traded a bit (value 500) or you've produced a bit more (value 5000). If they successfully steal objects, they'll come back with more thieves, and if they continue to be successful, they'll bring (buggy) archers. The power of the next attack is based only on how many objects were stolen during the last raid. They'll start sending archers if three or more objects are stolen.[]..they can send as many as 17 thieves and 36 archers, but this is incredibly unlikely. If the stolen object number is five or more, they'll start sending important historical figures.

Goblins start sending kidnappers when your population has hit 50 or you have traded a bit or produced a bit more (5x the kobold numbers). Once your population hits 80, they'll start to send more serious attacks instead of kidnappers on occasion. The numbers sent during the serious attacks depend only on how many attacks you've been through. If they have mounts or monsters(trolls?), they'll start using them on the second attack, with multiple monster packs on the third. Important historical figures also come with the third attack, but master weapon users can come on the second. Important kidnappers come on the second kidnapping attempt.

All of this will be obsolete once I get the armies working properly on the world map, though there will still have to be some artificial mechanism in place to stop early forts from being wiped out."

:Good, then I shall start war with the elves because there are no goblins.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 18:22, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

== Human Sieges ==

I am, right now in v0.28.181.39b, being besieged by about 14 humans, one of which is on a horse carrying a bow. "An enemy is laying siege" or some such came up instead of the usual "A vile force of darkness has arrived". Even stranger is that they built ''A Campfire'' and are just milling about around it. There is a clear path straight into the heart of my fortress. There is no sign of war on the civ screen. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 09:21, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
 It's even worse than that! They're actually doing siege tactics - they sit in their camp until someone goes outside, at which point they all set off to kill that poor sot. Then they return to camp. If it's not outside, they don't care. They also don't seem to be affected by any of my traps. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 11:52, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
:just wait until the campfire has burned down and then they will move to the fortress as the goblins do. It might take a while, so no need for hurry. I only had two human sieges in my current fortress until now, but they seem to increase in numbers as the goblins do.
:*first year: ~10 humans, not mounted, campfire
:*second year: ~20 humans, 2 squads, mounted. 1 squad with campfire, the second one just waited and had no campfire. After a while, they moved to the fortress, but not both squads at once.

:In my case (v0.28.181.39c), they were affected by my 2 weapon traps. At least at the second siege when they were mounted, during the first one when they had no horses, I had no traps, so I don't know if this has an effect.

:The text of the human siege is "The enemy have come and are laying siege to the fortress"

: In my fort the human guild representative died and once a caravan was slaughtered by an ambush.
:[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 18:24, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

::now in the 3rd year, a human diplomat arrived instead of the next siege and he offers the following options:
::''Peace is calling out to us. How do you respond?''
::Enter: ''I hear her voice. Let us stop this war.''
::Space: ''We will drown her out with the screams of your dying. Begone.''

::As I'm a beginner, as far as wikis are concerned, it would be nice if someone could update the article.
::[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:34, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
:::I've added it in, although I'm also a n00b at this wiki stuff, and kept forgetting important stuff. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:22, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::::thanks. As there aren't many reports about human sieges right now, it is a good start. -[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 03:09, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

: I have also received a human siege (v0.28.181.39e). Accidentally had the merchant diplomat locked in my fort - he 'left unhappy' (but he and the caravan were otherwise unscathed.) First summer - 10 unmounted humans; second summer - 50 humans, all mounted. Their campfire died down in Fall - it is now mid-Winter and they still haven't entered my fort. Instead they ride their horses in circles outside my gate. I have tried to bait them with expendable dwarfs but they just take them out with crossbows. Dwarven caravan did not even attempt to come in the Fall; also, no goblins or kobolds have dared to raid during the siege. All in all, a pretty effective siege as I do not have yet a military capable of attacking. (3rd year of fort). By the way, when the first siege force arrived I had fewer than 80 dwarves.
:[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 21:27, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Tame

2008-07-28T08:15:08Z

Pavlov:

Do we know for sure that if an animal that kills a dwarf is tamed, it can still kill your dwarves?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 14:42, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

:It's been confirmed in talk for cages and captured creatures. Any creature that has killed any civilized creature will start killing dwarves on release.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:12, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

::Why exactly is that, doesn't tame mean "doesn't attack dwarves"? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 06:32, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:::It's tasted BLOOD! --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:21, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::I have tamed a hydra that had killed several human siegers before deciding to wander into one of my cage traps. Upon release it behaved itself. So I don't think it's accurate to say that killing 'any civilized creature' will make a creature untameable. Seems it only applies to dwarves if it still applies at all. (39e) [[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 04:15, 28 July 2008 (EDT)