Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.31 Talk:Gorlak

2011-04-03T14:01:45Z

RedKing: /* Helpful? */

Shouldn't this get a [D]warf specification, for the sarcasm / humor of this.... Or at least for clarity. [[User:BlueShamen|BlueShamen]] 21:40, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

==Helpful?==

So I'm a pretty novice player who recently started exploring caverns in dwarf mode for the first time. I see a gorlak wandering into my fortress, so I check the wiki to see what I should be doing (ignoring it? killing it? fleeing in terror?). I see this page, so I decide to let it be until it becomes annoying, whereupon it seems that I should be able to dispatch it. Then I notice that it's trying to eat one of my horse foals, which is not okay, so I dispatch my military, though before it gets there one of my miners rams an iron pick through its brain, so all's well that ends well, I guess. But is this behaviour normal for gorlaks? If so, shouldn't the article reflect this? [[Special:Contributions/99.251.236.39|99.251.236.39]] 23:46, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I just had a gorlak run up and punch one of my sleeping farmers in the head, completely unprovoked. I'm going to edit the main article to reflect that while mostly harmless, gorlaks are not totally benign. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 12:43, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

And said farmer just succumbed to an infection of the bite wound inflicted by the gorlak. So yeah, they're not totally harmless. The little bugger ran from my militia, ran into another sleeping dwarf, and promptly bit him in the head too. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 14:01, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

v0.31:Gorlak

2011-04-03T12:47:04Z

RedKing:

{{quality|Fine|02:41, 27 February 2011 (UTC)}}
{{Creaturelookup/0
|wiki=no
|contrib=no
|death=nobutcher
}}
{{av}}
{{creaturedesc}}

'''Gorlaks''' are small humanoids encountered in cavern areas. Despite their appearance they are mostly harmless, although will prove to be an annoyance due to spamming cancelled jobs, and occasional weak attacks against animals or sleeping dwarves. Easily dispatched by even a novice military dwarf and/or most civilians.

{{gamedata}}
{{Creatures}}
{{Category|Humanoids}}

v0.31 Talk:Gorlak

2011-04-03T12:43:20Z

RedKing:

v0.31 Talk:Web

2011-03-22T20:32:09Z

RedKing: suffocation risk in webs

This article states that webs can be found next to chasm tiles, chasms no longer existing in DF2010 so it seems like this article might contain copy and pasted info from 40D. Could someone with more knowledge look over this article for incorrect info and correct it?--[[User:Railick|Railick]] 23:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)Railick
: Updated some info to v0.31.04. I couldn't veryfiy the sentence about web in the rain, though. --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 15:45, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Some descriptions of forbidden beasts state that they can shoot webs. Has anyone sen this? Can it be collected? --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 03:27, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

One of those "web-shooting" beasts visited me. Never got it to spit a single web. Shame... I wanted to start a forgotten beast silk farm :( --[[User:Peglegpenguin|Peglegpenguin]] 16:53, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

::I also had a web-shooting FB early on in a fortress (before the defense plans had time to fully integrate a proper sense of acute paranoia..). It glued lots of my mildorfs to the floor, resulting in fairly epic [[Fun]] (from ~55 dwarfs to 40 corpses, 3 healthy dwarfs working full-time caring for 8 or so invalids, and about 5 loonies getting in the way. Closest I've ever come to total destruction where the fort actually survived long enough to repopulate..) I can say that webs were definitely created, but can't confirm whether or not they were collectable, or even whether they were "special" in any way (I want to say they just looked like ordinary (G?)CS webs when loo(k)ed at, but I don't really remember for sure).

::Oh, and when that FB hit with a web, it hit -hard-, hard enough to break bone, or insta-kill with a head strike. Is that true for GCSs? The GCS page makes them sound dangerous, but not -that- dangerous. [[Special:Contributions/202.156.10.234|202.156.10.234]] 05:30, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

==Webbed creatures loose [TRAPAVOID]==
Everyone knows that GCS webs cause creatures to fall down, except for the GCS of course.
Also, falling down makes the game think for a short time, the creature in the web is unconcious and makes it trigger traps.
So a GCS and a trap filled corridor can stop HFS and FBs easily.
I am sure it should be noted somewhere, but I don't know if it should be on the GCS page, or on the webs page.--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 10:38, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

== Workaround for a buggy webbed+injured state. ==

One of my hunters was battered by a GCS but not killed thanks to nearby militia killing said GCS in time. The state she ended in was unconscious + webbed + some moderate arm and head injuries. After a while she apparently somewhat recovered and decided that resting was a good idea. Since "Rest" is a task - it is interrupted by being webbed. Since the dwarf is somewhat injured - she didn't try anything besides "rest" and never exited "unconscious" state. Since she was always unconscious - she was not automatically breaking away from the webs like every conscious creature does.
 Spamming of "dwarf cancels rest: webbed" every turn was unpleasant but loosing a skilled, nearly healthy dwarf to drowsiness (food and drinks were delivered, "recover wounded" not started because it requires an immobile dwarf with "rest" job, "unconscious" but not "sleeping" or "resting" is not counted as sleep.) was insulting. Building/deconstructing a bed under the dwarf, one level drop by a small cave-in accomplished nothing.
 What helped was building a cage trap under her, auto-catching into a cage due to "uncoscious", then - constructing that cage and letting the dwarf out. Quick diagnosis revealed that there were lots of torn hair on the head and prescribed cleaning. Actual wounds left some massive jugged scars and the dwarf was back to hunting. I wonder if being "incredibly fat" helped surviving GCS bites.--[[User:Another|Another]] 00:56, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Suffocation danger? ==

Had a miner recently die due to suffocation while mining gems in a cavern area jammed full of webs. No creatures in the area, and no combat report to indicate what had occurred. IIRC, it is possible to cause yourself significant damage in Adventure Mode by getting bound up in webs and continuing to try to push through them, especially if the throat gets webbed up and constricted. Anyone else seen this sort of behavior in Fortress Mode? Oh, and these were garden variety cave spider webs, not GCS. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 20:32, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

40d Talk:Sea lamprey

2010-02-27T22:13:09Z

RedKing:

Just in case anyone was wondering, these things are harmless. This is useful information to people like me, who enjoy wrestling fish in adventure mode. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 04:07, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Harmless my ass. I just lost 12 dwarves including a legendary miner to one Sea Lamprey.--[[Special:Contributions/173.26.114.20|173.26.114.20]] 07:34, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

:Seconded. Lost my skilled fisherman to one. And it wasn't just a case of "Oops, the dwarf fell in and drowned." It ripped off his arm and left half a dozen dwarf chunks in its wake. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 22:13, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

40d:Liaison

2009-12-12T21:14:04Z

RedKing: /* Differences by race */ - clarified that liasons are not necessarily of the same race as their civ.

'''Liaisons''' are emissaries from different civilizations that accompany traders to your fortress. They can have different titles ([[Humans]] will send a '''guild representative''', dwarves will send an '''outpost liaison'''), but their functions are the same. Like actual '''diplomats''' they are listed as ''diplomat'' in the unit list.

If your liaison dies then you will ''never'' get a replacement from that race, so protect him well if you rely on the caravan for a source of something that you request.

__TOC__

=== Arrival and Departure ===

The entry point on the map for a liaison is determined before that of the caravan wagons. This can result in the liaison taking a different route to your fortress than the rest of the caravan if the route chosen is not suitable for wagons; the wagons will then enter from a different spot. This means the diplomat has to travel unprotected but this is really the only downside to forcing the wagons to use one particular route. The liaison will then also leave without the caravan once the meeting is done. Providing your own armed escort for the liaison is not a bad plan.

=== Interaction ===

Dwarven liaisons will speak with the highest ranking non-royal [[noble]] in your fort, one of:
* [[Duke/Duchess]]
* [[Count|Count(ess)]]
* [[Baron|Baron(ess)]]
* [[Leader|Expedition Leader/Mayor]]

Human liaisons will only speak with your [[broker]]. Their function is to ask which goods you would like to have sent with their next caravan (for a higher price), and inform you what goods they would like to buy from you the next time, which they too will pay extra to purchase.

Make sure to turn off all labor for the dwarf who needs to meet with the liaison, even the "dwarves all harvest" {{K|o}}rder, because your leader tends to walk away from the meeting, and liaisons will eventually get [[insanity|depressed]] or go [[berserk]] if they do not get their meeting. This also causes a message saying "A trader went away unhappy" although it's unknown if this has any current in-game effect. A liaison can also go insane if prevented from leaving; this can happen after as little as two months of game time.

If your leader is dead, there is nothing you can do but hope that a new one is elected before the liaison arrives or he/she will leave without a [[meeting]]. If the leader is too injured to hold a meeting, then you must either arrange for them to have an [[unfortunate accident]] in time for a new one to be elected and hold a meeting, or wait for the liaison to go [[insane]] and kill themselves. Decisions, decisions...

If you are desperate to complete a meeting, consider locking the [[door]] on the meeting room until the meeting is complete. You don't even have to catch both in the office, the liaison is so keen on his bureaucracy, he will happily shout through the door, or even a thin wall. A sleeping dwarf leader can be woken up by deconstructing his [[bed]], although this will often generate an unhappy [[thought]]. Lastly, an easy way to force the leader into the meeting room is to draft him (this can cause an unhappy thought if he has no military skills) and station him in the meeting room. Undrafting him may or may not be necessary to force the meeting to start.

The meeting can take place independent of [[Trade|trading]] sessions - although the liaison and traders often arrive together, they are not tied in any other way.

The meeting consists of 8 screens with breaks, the breaks giving your leader a welcome opportunity to walk away from the meeting. Don't think you are done until the liaison confirms it and says farewell!

Conducting a meeting in a public place can generate an unhappy [[thought]]. Conducting a meeting in the leader's private office can generate a happy thought based on the quality of the room{{v|0.27.176.38c}}.

Oddly enough, liaisons don't need to eat, drink or sleep. There is a statement from one of our mayors on this:

:Ironblood: ''"This damn human thingy keeps following me around, suckling on me when I pause for too long. I think it's a foreign custom, but I dare not emulate. He's all disgusting and clean. Though his clothes are almost completely rotted off..."
''

==Differences by race==
The liaisons and diplomats sent by different races differ in certain ways. Note that here, ''race'' refers to the overall civilization, not the individual liaison. It is quite possible to have a liaison of a different race than its parent civ, if that civ has conquered and assimilated members of another race.

===Dwarven===
The name of your dwarven liaison will be upgraded to names such as ''city'' or ''metropolis'' liaison, corresponding to your fortress development. 
The '''liaison''' will stop coming if you have a [[King]], (or more accurately, becomes the King's [[Advisor]]). This liaison comes from the Mountainhome, and if you have a King, then you are already living in the Mountainhome.

===Human===
The human '''guild representative''' will have different names based on the importance of your fortress. Such names include '''merchant baron''' and '''merchant princess'''.

Humans will also often send a '''diplomat''' separate from the guild representative when your fortress becomes important enough to rate a baron or better noble. This individual will only speak to your baron (or better), and generally says something inane such as "What a nice place you've carved out for yourself here." As the noble the diplomat wants to speak with never does anything anyway, you need do nothing to ensure the meeting occurs. If you're in a state of war with the human civilization, the diplomat may come proposing a peace treaty.

===Elven===
The elves will not send trade emissaries, but will occasionally send a '''diplomat''' who meets with your head noble (such as the [[Duke/Duchess]]) to talk about the "tree situation" at your fort. If you don't cut ''any'' trees he will actually be happy with you (a happy hippie - impossible). He may also appear and complain without negotiating an actual tree cutting limit (yet), but for most fortresses he will demand that you limit the number of trees you cut down before the elves return the next year. Complaints are tied to the number of logs in stockpiles, not to the number of trees that have actually been cut, so you will still get the complaints if you import wood. Note that underground [[tower-cap]]s also factor into the limit (who lets the sneaky elves peek in our caverns?).

[[Category:Trade]]

40d:Liaison

2009-12-12T21:08:48Z

RedKing: /* Dwarven */

'''Liaisons''' are emissaries from different civilizations that accompany traders to your fortress. They can have different titles ([[Humans]] will send a '''guild representative''', dwarves will send an '''outpost liaison'''), but their functions are the same. Like actual '''diplomats''' they are listed as ''diplomat'' in the unit list.

If your liaison dies then you will ''never'' get a replacement from that race, so protect him well if you rely on the caravan for a source of something that you request.

__TOC__

=== Arrival and Departure ===

The entry point on the map for a liaison is determined before that of the caravan wagons. This can result in the liaison taking a different route to your fortress than the rest of the caravan if the route chosen is not suitable for wagons; the wagons will then enter from a different spot. This means the diplomat has to travel unprotected but this is really the only downside to forcing the wagons to use one particular route. The liaison will then also leave without the caravan once the meeting is done. Providing your own armed escort for the liaison is not a bad plan.

=== Interaction ===

Dwarven liaisons will speak with the highest ranking non-royal [[noble]] in your fort, one of:
* [[Duke/Duchess]]
* [[Count|Count(ess)]]
* [[Baron|Baron(ess)]]
* [[Leader|Expedition Leader/Mayor]]

Human liaisons will only speak with your [[broker]]. Their function is to ask which goods you would like to have sent with their next caravan (for a higher price), and inform you what goods they would like to buy from you the next time, which they too will pay extra to purchase.

Make sure to turn off all labor for the dwarf who needs to meet with the liaison, even the "dwarves all harvest" {{K|o}}rder, because your leader tends to walk away from the meeting, and liaisons will eventually get [[insanity|depressed]] or go [[berserk]] if they do not get their meeting. This also causes a message saying "A trader went away unhappy" although it's unknown if this has any current in-game effect. A liaison can also go insane if prevented from leaving; this can happen after as little as two months of game time.

If your leader is dead, there is nothing you can do but hope that a new one is elected before the liaison arrives or he/she will leave without a [[meeting]]. If the leader is too injured to hold a meeting, then you must either arrange for them to have an [[unfortunate accident]] in time for a new one to be elected and hold a meeting, or wait for the liaison to go [[insane]] and kill themselves. Decisions, decisions...

If you are desperate to complete a meeting, consider locking the [[door]] on the meeting room until the meeting is complete. You don't even have to catch both in the office, the liaison is so keen on his bureaucracy, he will happily shout through the door, or even a thin wall. A sleeping dwarf leader can be woken up by deconstructing his [[bed]], although this will often generate an unhappy [[thought]]. Lastly, an easy way to force the leader into the meeting room is to draft him (this can cause an unhappy thought if he has no military skills) and station him in the meeting room. Undrafting him may or may not be necessary to force the meeting to start.

The meeting can take place independent of [[Trade|trading]] sessions - although the liaison and traders often arrive together, they are not tied in any other way.

The meeting consists of 8 screens with breaks, the breaks giving your leader a welcome opportunity to walk away from the meeting. Don't think you are done until the liaison confirms it and says farewell!

Conducting a meeting in a public place can generate an unhappy [[thought]]. Conducting a meeting in the leader's private office can generate a happy thought based on the quality of the room{{v|0.27.176.38c}}.

Oddly enough, liaisons don't need to eat, drink or sleep. There is a statement from one of our mayors on this:

:Ironblood: ''"This damn human thingy keeps following me around, suckling on me when I pause for too long. I think it's a foreign custom, but I dare not emulate. He's all disgusting and clean. Though his clothes are almost completely rotted off..."
''

==Differences by race==
The liaisons and diplomats sent by different races differ in certain ways.

===Dwarven===
The name of your dwarven liaison will be upgraded to names such as ''city'' or ''metropolis'' liaison, corresponding to your fortress development. 
The '''liaison''' will stop coming if you have a [[King]], (or more accurately, becomes the King's [[Advisor]]). This liaison comes from the Mountainhome, and if you have a King, then you are already living in the Mountainhome.

===Human===
The human '''guild representative''' will have different names based on the importance of your fortress. Such names include '''merchant baron''' and '''merchant princess'''.

Humans will also often send a '''diplomat''' separate from the guild representative when your fortress becomes important enough to rate a baron or better noble. This individual will only speak to your baron (or better), and generally says something inane such as "What a nice place you've carved out for yourself here." As the noble the diplomat wants to speak with never does anything anyway, you need do nothing to ensure the meeting occurs. If you're in a state of war with the human civilization, the diplomat may come proposing a peace treaty.

===Elven===
The elves will not send trade emissaries, but will occasionally send a '''diplomat''' who meets with your head noble (such as the [[Duke/Duchess]]) to talk about the "tree situation" at your fort. If you don't cut ''any'' trees he will actually be happy with you (a happy hippie - impossible). He may also appear and complain without negotiating an actual tree cutting limit (yet), but for most fortresses he will demand that you limit the number of trees you cut down before the elves return the next year. Complaints are tied to the number of logs in stockpiles, not to the number of trees that have actually been cut, so you will still get the complaints if you import wood. Note that underground [[tower-cap]]s also factor into the limit (who lets the sneaky elves peek in our caverns?).

[[Category:Trade]]

40d:Advisor

2009-12-12T21:07:29Z

RedKing:

{{Noble
| noble=Advisor
| quarters=Great Bedroom
| dining=Great Dining Room
| office=Throne Room
| tomb=None
| stands=2
| racks=2
| chests=3
| cabinets=2
| arrival=
* Arrives with the King
| function= None
}}

The '''advisor''' is an [[Noble#Immigrant Nobles|immigrant noble]] who arrives with the [[King]]. Astute observers will note that the Advisor is in fact, your former Outpost [[Liaison]].

[[Category:Nobles]]

40d Talk:Advisor

2009-12-12T21:03:32Z

RedKing:

My advisor is my '''least''' happy dwarf in my entire fortress, probably partially due to the fact that her Thoughts and Preferences page doesn't contain ''any'' preferences (and not helped by the fact that she currently demands a glitched "item in Bedroom" which is impossible to fulfill). If I kill her off, will a new one arrive to replace her, or will she be gone for good (and good riddance, too)? Incidentally, her thoughts/preferences page lists her as the outpost liaison for my current civilization (the one from which the King arrived). --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 03:47, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
*Further research revealed that all dwarves created during worldgen have no preferences, and an old save file revealed that my advisor was, in fact, my outpost liaison. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 22:15, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
*My current fortress also had my Liaison arrive as the Advisor. Perhaps this is a guaranteed behavior? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:14, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
:Correct, AFAIK. The Outpost Liason is "promoted" to Advisor when the King moves in. Makes sense, in that the Liason's job in your earlier stages of development is to be the...well, ''liason'' between the King/Queen and your settlement. Once the King moves in and your site is the new capital, there's nowhere for the Liason to go.[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 21:03, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Liaison

2009-11-14T16:38:15Z

RedKing: /* Cross-racial liasons */ new section

Any idea how to keep them from staying till they go insane. Every winter my dwarves live in fear of the bruce lee of liaisons going into a martial trance.

At first I thought they'd stay if they didn't get to talk with my broker but having a meeting doesn't help get them out. --[[User:Lucid|Lucid]] 17:44, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Make sure you have your broker free long enough to make your demands and to views theirs, it take about 4 meetings between your broker and the liaison. At least that is how I get him to leave --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 18:08, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

so THAT'S how you do it, good thing I turned off my expo leader from hunting, the damned liason kept on scaring off the deer [the leader, and broker] was chasing :\

== Broker, not Leader? ==

So it's the broker, not the mayor, that meets with these guys? That changes some things. (I'm trying to keep the Liasons outside of my fortess so they don't know where the traps are, if they ever siege.)

No, its the leader/mayor. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 11:33, 20 February 2008 (EST)

:i have my leader and broker separate(not by choice) in my current fort, and noticed that while the dwarf liaison meets with the leader, the human rep most definately meets with the broker, not the leader. --[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 06:57, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

::Ditto, my broker keeps meeting with the Liasons (all of them, i think, certainly the human one) despite not having been mayor for something like 5 years (military dwarves always seem to get elected mayor...). In fact, I just annoyed a human liason because my broker (not mayor) entered a strange mood just as the liason entered my fortress (thus promptly leaving).
::Now, Diplomats meet with the highest ranking leading noble you have (mayor/baron+/etc...), and I don't know why Diplomat redirects to Liason as humans and elves occasionally send a diplomat to make demands or merely comment 'this is a nice place you've carved out for yourself'.
::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 06:54, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

Ok, I changed this so that it correctly says the human liason meets with your broker. I left the dwarven liason as Mayor but I'm not certain that's true - my one still existent game which is suitably set up to check this otherwise is now the mountainhome, so I'm unable to verify at present. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 21:07, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

::Anecdotal evidence of dwarven liason using Mayor/Exp Leader - I got an initial set of dwarves where they made someone expedition leader who didn't have the broker skills, so exp leader and broker were different dwarves. Dwarven Liason met with Exp Leader. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 15:55, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

Confirming it's the expedition leader, i currently only have on dwarf (hermit challenge) and he's the expedition leader, and the dwarven liason meets with him. (Sorta lame really, let him live, sheesh)

== really set off traps? ==
I have both liaisons walk through a maze of traps every time they visit, never got hurt. Maybe a 38a/b/c bug? What kind of traps were they triggering?--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 23:56, 27 February 2008 (EST)

:I'm running DF 38a and every year when the caravans arrive I get a new human corpse to loot. My liasons ''never'' make it past my traps (weapon[disc] and stonefall). I wish they would, I'd like to adjust what they bring. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 21:00, 3 March 2008 (EST)
::well known bug for 38a, it was fixed in 38b -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 21:54, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Mine just set off a Trap too. Died. Running verson 40c for mac. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 09:19, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

== Can't assign new leader; wiki article is incorrect ==

Leaders are elected and can't be manually chosen. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 23:34, 8 March 2008 (EST)

I may be remembering wrong, but I recall my liasons wanting to meet my Broker, who is manually chosen. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 01:52, 9 March 2008 (EST)

== Diplomat ==

I have an elven diplomat telling my duchess not to cut down more than 55 trees (and calling her short.. a member of Elves for the Ethical Treatment of Trees?). Is this kind of diplomat separate from the trade liaison? The page [[Diplomat]] redirects here.. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:18, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:Yes and no. We should maybe move this page to "diplomat" as both the human and dwarven one (and the elven one? never had one of those although im trying hard *grin*) are called diplomat in the unit list. On the other hand the elves never send a trade diplomat(?) so, yes he is somewhat different, but should be included then... --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:37, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

== weird trigger for liaison screens ==
it seems once the meeting has started the usual delay between the screens can be avoided by marking tiles for digging with the mouse - this will cause the screens to pop up during marking (just be careful with pressing space bar) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:29, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

== odd behaviour out of season/character ==
My siege engineer has just spend a while wandering around my fortress with the job "Attend Meeting" even though a) he is not the broker or mayor, b) there are no merchants or liasons on the map. He would go to one place and just stand there doing nothing then walk to another place and repeat. This went on for a while then he just went back to normal. There were other jobs he could have been doing at the time. Most odd. Is this a bug should I report it? [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 19:19, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
:To clear up a point of confusion the job "Conduct Meeting" is the job assigned to the Mayor,Broker, or Baron/Count. After dwarven economy is running a dwarf might get the job "Attend Meeting". That dwarf seeks a meeting with the Mayor. If the Mayor is busy he will continue to follow the Mayor around until he is free. The solution I found is to switch off the Mayor's labors so he's free to conduct the meeting. The meeting is usually quick and then you'll get the other dwarf working again.--[[User:Angus|Angus]] 20:52, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
::Some claim that this is a bug. If the person seeking the meeting gets his meeting, but then the Leader gets distracted, the "Attending Meeting" status will never go away. The [[Meeting|solution suggested]] is to Activate them into the military then deactivate them. [[User:3lB33|3lB33]] 00:55, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

== verified some embarrassment factors ==
From dwarfort.exe
(Name) was embarrassed to have to conduct an official meeting in a dining room.
(Name) was very embarrassed to have to conduct an official meeting in a bedroom.
[[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 19:58, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

: I would be happier if someone could verify that it is actually _used_ in game, but, well. You see, my palace office never triggered any thought. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 21:13, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

::Try giving them a dining room and no office, koltom. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:26, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

:::I got these unhappy thoughts from meetings conducted in public dining halls that were also designated as meeting halls. (I do not know whether they also happen from nobles' personal dining rooms designated from private tables.) They seem to be very minor unhappy thoughts, so I'm not going out of my way to avoid such designations to keep my idlers from going to hang out by the wagon in the fortresses' early stages. --[[User:Brent Not Broken|Brent Not Broken]] 12:31, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Liaisons, zoo material? ==

I want to know whether or not to trap the liaisons before they leave and have them in cages. Should I do this or not?--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 19:17, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

:hm..
: *You can't trap them (unless you mean locking them in a room)
: *You can't assign them to cages
: If u don't let them leave they will go crazy and your requests for trade items will most likely be ignored
: why do you want to trap them? (okay, they are annoying, but also useful) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:41, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

==Human Diplomat==
Added information about the human diplomat, whom i've seen meeting with my Baron/Count/Duke often enough (4 different games, multiple times in each). They don't seem to do much at present - though I haven't tried to incur a human siege of my fortress to see if they sue for peace if you beat them. I imagine they could theoretically make demands like the elven diplomat does, except they aren't picky about things like cutting down trees. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 21:07, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

== Meeting With Elves ==

What happens if you choose different option instead of saying yes to whatever they say? The number of trees keep going lower...57....43...37...well they aren't the exact numbers but close to them. I might want to try to fight them once. I've got some ore to melt and I need a good amount of charcoal... They appear every year after cutting too much trees?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 23:36, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

New meeting with elves craziness - i've seriously cut down like 10 cacti total, and that was over 5 years ago. Wood imports have been more than sufficient since then. The elf diplomat shows up for the first time and tells me I've been disrespecting the trees. Does the diplomat always say the same thing? Because he's making no sense whatsoever. In addition to their being absolutely no trees on my map (Yay Saguaros?), I haven't even chopped any in ages. I've bought 20x the amount I ever chopped from the elven caravans. How have I been disrespecting the 'trees'? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:28, 9 December 2008 (EST)

I have a fortress where I didn't cut a single tree (there is none) and the elf was happy with me... So no, not always the same, but it seems that the disrespect starts at the very first log. [[User:Matakuka|Matakuka]] 12:37, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

== liaison - dead and gone? (death of a salesman) ==
When in the first summer the dwarven caravan arrived with the outpost liaison at my latest fortress, the liason made it savely past the traps but seems to have died just in front of the depot - no blood to be seen, no message in the announcement, just as he had died a natural death.
Strange enough, but after I provided him a coffin, in the next year the dwarves came without another liaison. So I disposed the treacherous coffin and bones in my crush-o-mat. But that didn't have any effect either: There didn't come any liaison anymore.
In the first place I wonder why he died, and also why he isn't succeeded?!--[[User:Doub|Doub]]

== Left Unhappily? ==

I just got a message
"Diplomacy Stymied. A diplomat has left unhappy."
The last part of the meeting never occured, and my mayor was unable to meet him, due to seige. Was the dwarven diplomat. --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:59, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

== Person to meet set when liaison arrives? ==

When the human liaison arrived this year, I had "Trader Joe" Stukosshed as my Broker. Shortly after, the goblins sieged and Joe got hit by a stray arrow while evacuating. His arm is mangled, so he's resting. I assigned a new broker, but it looks like the Human liaison is holding vigil beside Joe's bed, waiting for him to wake up to run the meeting. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:32, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

==Liaison dead??==

The human guild representative was walking around my fort; he seemed all fine, did not set off any traps. Suddenly, a few (real-life) minutes later, I see a human corpse in my refuse stockpile. He also didn't even have a meeting (note: he died about 2 months after the caravan left). Should I expect a human siege?

: Probably, yes. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 13:12, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== 404 meeting not found ==

Issue resolved. The problem was that my mayor wanted to update stockpile records instead of take the damn meeting. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:50, 16 January 2009 (EST)

==No Liaison?==
First year, rather rough terrain, dwarf caravan arrived just fine though but... no liaison? At all? I kind of wanted to request bauxite... I guess I'm glad I brought some with me... Has anyone else had this happen? What's going on? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:15, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:I have a similar problem in my current game, for the simple reason that I have embarked as part of a tiny civilisation - one which apparently has no king. No king means no liaison. This happened because of my parameters, but I'm sure that it can happen coincidentally in the unaltered game as well. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 12:47, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::I had a similar incident a while back, where the liaison never showed up, not even in the first year. I didn't think to check whether or not my civ had a king/queen, but I was on a terrifying glacier so I had just assumed he had froze to death or something before reaching my site.--[[User:Mjo625|Mjo625]] 13:46, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::Hmm... I have the same thing happening to me. I checked my civilization on the civilization menu and it just says: "Ruler/King" for the head of the civilization. Doesn't this mean I have a king? If not, how do you know if you have a king?--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 09:00, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

==Liaison dead?, help==
My liaison died to a goblin ambush a few years back on his way out.. midwinter. Do I never get a new one or the chance to request stuff again?--[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 11:00, 11 January 2009 (EST)

==Insane Liason==
How long does it take to drive a dwarven liason insane from being ingored? They guy's getting on my nerves, lurking outside the door and not letting poor Elfcrusher leave.

:The timer only seems to start if he's met/seen the dwarf he wants to talk to. I've had a Liaison wander around for 3 years because he couldn't get anywhere near my mayor/broker - enough time he should have gone insane otherwise. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:57, 31 January 2009 (EST)

::Then I'm lucky the wolves decided to vist. Cheers anyway. --[[User:Simmura McCrea|Simmura McCrea]] 14:22, 31 January 2009 (EST)

== Elven diplomat, ...what? ==

So, today an elven diplomat came to me and said I had carved a nice place out for myself. Then he left, which left me quite confused. Earlier an elven caravan arrived but was ambushed and brutally killed, is that why the diplomat came? If so, why didn't he say anything? [[User:Tardface|Tardface]] 12:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

:Your baroness / countess / duchess will get liaisons from friendly civilisations occasionally. They often just say that you have carved out a lovely place, then leave. Did you get a new noble recently? [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 12:46, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

:That's sound like what the human diplomat tends to say. Are you sure the elf was from an elf civilization, or was it an elf working for the humans? --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 20:00, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

::I got an elven diplo who just moped about too many trees cut and how he didn't expect any better from us. No quota. Is that new? Is that bad? Or kinda a prestage? --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 21:52, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

== Dwarven Liaison becomes Advisor? ==

In my last fortress (which got a standard King), the [[Advisor]] turned out to be the outpost liaison for my civilization. Coincidence, or does this always happen? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 13:14, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
*I should note that my current fortress also had my liaison arrive as the Advisor. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 21:21, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

== humans observing traps ==

----
The human page says that any traps a human noble observes will not trigger for sieging humans. That should probably be mentioned here, plus which of the human liasons (all?) have this ability, plus tips to prevent trap observation from happening. It would also be nice to see whether or not deconstructing a trap and then building an identical one in the same place is enough to counter it (I suspect it is). [[User:Arrkhal|Arrkhal]] 22:01, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

== Cross-racial liasons ==

(No, not *those* kind.) I just had my first dwarf caravan arrive in the fall of my first year, and they seem to have brought an elven outpost liason. Who's missing his left arm below the elbow and keeps passing out on the way to my fort. I know my parent civilization has seen better days (they only have one Mountainhome left after a series of wars), but you're telling me there was nobody better to send than a one-armed treehugger?

So apparently civs can provide liasons from assimilated members of other races. And the game doesn't check for injuries until it puts them in-game (like a lot of guards in adventure mode).

40d Talk:Elf

2009-11-11T19:25:44Z

RedKing: /* Images of trees a bad thing? */

==Trading==
I have successfuly traded them Silk items in 0.27.169.32a--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 00:01, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

:Thanks for testing it, I removed the verify tag. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:43, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I have to wonder why elves wouldn't accept anything made out of wood, when all they want to trade me is animals in wooden cages, and alcohol in wooden barrels and bows and bolts made out of wood...you know what, almost everything they wanted to trade me was made from wood... --[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 01:32, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

:It's because the elves ask nicely when they take wood from a tree. Dwarves go out and TAKE IT!--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 14:38, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I accidentally tried to trade a wooden bucket with them. The elves scolded me, but still allowed me to trade my stone mugs and scepters. They don't leave straight away anymore.--[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 01:44, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:Ah, I'm glad they're more forgiving now. Fixed. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:14, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::I think how they react depends on your broker's social skills, since they sometimes get unpacifiably pissy at me and sometimes only whine mildly. I have on "Anyone may trade".--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 21:05, 12 November 2008 (EST)

::They may rather be bugged now. There is a bug report that offering them something they don't like will make their mood maximally happy. --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 14:14, 19 November 2007 (EST)

:::Elfs are stupid. I traded some stone crafts for some of their wooden cages, and then i tryed to trade those same wooden cages back and they get angry at me for killing trees! [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 12:09, 1 December 2007 (EST)

What about flours, syrups and the like? Food? The DO buy prepared meals.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:32, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

I've noticed something new which may just be a coincidence - As I scale back my harvesting of wood from local sources (outside) the elves bring me a larger quantity of wood to trade. If I start chopping trees down for roads, etc. then they bring me less. Anyone else notice this? --[[User:Termitehead|Termitehead]] 08:49, 6 May 2008 (CST)

I accidentally offered an elf some wooden items, and after that the Trade option was disabled even after exiting out of the interface and starting a new trading session. Is that supposed to happen? Seems a little harsh to me... --[[User:Theory|Theory]] 14:12, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

:Yes, that is how it works. If you offer to trade something repugnant to a merchant, they will leave in a huff for that season. Consider how you would react if someone offered to sell you a necklace made of puppy and kitten skulls with sewn images in human leather of elephants slaughtering people while on fire. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:36, 13 November 2008 (EST)

I'm convinced that the elves aren't tree-huggers, they're a logging cartel. After all, they SELL you logs and scads of wooden gear. They just don't want you clear-cutting forests because you're muscling in on their turf. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 15:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Fortress in Elf Territory ==

I set one up for fun, and so far (1st winter) there's been no effect. The weirdest part is the large number of named trees; I've avoided cutting them down, and the elves haven't bothered me. I've had hunters chase and kill deer right in their midst with no ill effect as well -- it remains to be seen what happens if he misses the deer and hits an elf, though. Will report back when I find something interesting. [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:53, 12 November 2007 (EST)

==Pissed-off the elves...==
They seem to be kinda wussy, considering that I confiscated all of their trade caravan's goods (3k in rope reed cloth of various colors and a little bit of alcohol and seeds) and I expected a siege (my fort is in a boring area, and losing is fun) but they won't attack me. I took their junk a season or two ago. When and how will they attack? --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 19:22, 27 November 2007 (EST)

:Elves are wusses now. It's not even known if non-evil races still siege, much less treehugging wusses like elves. -[[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 01:09, 28 November 2007 (EST)

::[[Siege]]s from non-evil races have been disabled for now. They'll be back once the war arc is complete. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 15:10, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:::I was sieged by humans in I think 39c after a merchant's guild representative was slaughtered by a goblin ambush. [[User:Mingebag|Mingebag]] 01:07, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

==Elves bringing corpses==
The elves usually bring an animal or two in cages to trade, but many times that bring cages full of corpses... It's either all alive, or all corpses. Maybe the animals died in transit? Anybody else have this happen to them?--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 22:11, 25 December 2007 (EST)

: "It's not dead, it's resting". Er, the humans do this to me too. Pretty sure it's on the known bug list. [[User:Acama|Acama]] 02:17, 30 December 2007 (EST)

:I'm rather certain that if you're in a climate that you can die from exposure, that this is what happens. Have you gotten a shipment of live animals and a shipment of dead ones while at the same site? If not, then this is almost certainly the case. If so, it's possibly a function of a random number and perhaps the extremeness of the climate. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:11, 30 December 2007 (EST)

::I seem to recall it being stated that this was due to the caravan passing THROUGH climates where you can die of exposure on the way to your fortress. If the path a civ needs to take runs through freezing or scorching climates, the elves don't give the animals proper temperature care and they die. In contrast, the elves seem to make it through just fine--who knows, maybe the code is slightly different for caravan entities and separate creatures that happen to be carried along with the caravan. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:03, 10 January 2008 (EST)

::: I've had it happen to me as well, heck, half my map is haunted and frozen year round. Oddly vermin, bats and squirrels and such, make it through fine. [[User:Lando242|Lando242]] 12:47, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

:I actually prefer this method. I like to trap stuff myself so it makes the cages much cheaper, and the corpse can still be butchered for meat, bones, fat, and skulls. Your butcher will grab the entire cage and take it to the butcher's shop to empty it. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 11:20, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Elves and Animals ==

Doing some testing with using Elves in fortress mode, it seems that they will NOT be attacked by animals. Do you think we might go as far as to write in this page that [NATURAL]creatures will not attack elves? [[User:Zonk|Zonk]] 11:57, 9 January 2008 (EST)
: I have had a super agile mace-elf (from a goblin ambush) pass three rows of noquality weapon traps; he then proceeded to ''slaughter'' my chained dogs, black bear, alligator, jaguar and monkeys almost unscratched (his upper body was merely 'tired'). Either the animals are particularly weak, or they failed to attack the invader. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 13:21, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

== Elven warnings ==

The elves just warned me about cutting too many trees... I didn't realize that was still in. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 17:23, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== Elven traders ==

I have read that if the human caravans are attacked too many times, that the humans will wage war on you. I have also read that if you cut down too many trees, the elves will wage war on you. But if you let the elven traders die, will they also wage war on you? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 22:14, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

:Don't think so, elves got ambushed by gobbies one year and I did nothing to help them. Accidentally saved one of the traders, though, but he starved to death. --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 19:17, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

::I've raided an elven caravan for everything they were carrying, and had a human force siege my fortress not long after. There was no compelling reason for them to do so (I didn't raid their caravan, nor were there any human casualties at my fortress) yet they sieged me anyway. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 01:21, 8 January 2009 (EST)

==Blood Covering?==

I have sold some items with blood covering with no negative effects... can anyone confirm if it's true or not? [[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:55, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

I cannot say firsthand, but I've heard in the forums and, I think, elsewhere in the Wiki that blood covering angers the elves.--[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 23:24, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

:As of 0.28.181.40d, I just traded a huge pile of blood covered leather clothes, and the elves didn't seem to mind. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 16:20, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

== Speaking with Halfmen ==

What exactly is the tag that lets you speak with snakemen, ratmen, etcetera? I haven't been able to figure it out as of yet, and I want to add it to a creature I'm making.

In addition, adding the [AT_PEACE_WITH_WILDLIFE] tag didn't stop wolves and bears from ambushing and attacking me; so judging from this that is not the tag that makes them 'immune' to attacks; either that, or the wolves/bears and other large predators ignore that tag. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 15:59, 14 May 2008 (EDT) (Edited later due to forgetting to add nametag)

Animalmen are no longer wildlife in 39e, so they're hostile to elves. Someone should edit the article to express this. --[[User:Neoskel|Neoskel]] 21:40, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

== Elves as of .39c ==

I feel the Elves went under a pretty big overhaul in the latest version. They've turned into tree huggers who do little else but complain, to zerging cannibals who dominate worlds when given enough time. Also little things, like Elves regrowing trees around captured sites, in addition to the aforementioned personality changes, may warrant it's own section, and/or editing.

== Elven Ambushes ==

While they may not seige, They do preform Ambushes.

And I noticed something quite strange...

They ambushed with Mounts. I saw a swarm of Unicorns heading torwards my location. There where no unicorns on my map, so I sent my military to meet them, and when battle was engaged, it said "An Ambush!" And, for each Unicorn, there was also an elf (on the same square)

I'm not sure where to put this in the article though. I've been ambushed by non-mounted elves several times as well. Maybe a new section "Amubsh/Seige habits?"

:I've seen Elves ambush on unicorns too (version 0.28.181.39e), and they had no qualms about slaughtering the puppies I had tied to chains outside -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:09, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

== Elven Trading as of Latest Version ==

It seems to me that the elves are much, much more tolerant than before as to what items they will accept. So far I've successfully given them leather, bone, and shell crafts just fine. I have also tried offering them the same branch of items, and they will happily accept them. They even accept items that have blood on them. They will still reject pure wooden goods.
I haven't fully tested skulls, soap, or other animal byproducts yet. But if I were to hazard a guess, I would say they still will reject any item that has wood involved in it's creation, or any item with decorations of wood.
[[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 09:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

== How do I kill elves? ==

I don't like elves in my fortress and I would like to kill them with my thirty axedwarfs, how would I go about doing this? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:TheLastBarber|TheLastBarber]]

:You can only attack people who have come to your fortress with ill intent. Anger them enough (cut down trees, take their stuff, involve their merchants in unfortunate "accidents", etc.) and they should send forces to attack you, whereupon you can finally take joy in the slaughter. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 15:39, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

::You can also kill Elves that have gone insane, but that would require imprisoning them for a considerable length of time.--[[User:Stryc9fuego|Stryc9fuego]] 14:08, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
:::I can kill ones that go beserk, sure, but the melancholy ones can emo out unimpeded. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 21:06, 13 November 2008 (EST)

== Last edit ==

I've have heard extensive talking about how elves eat the dead. A note to this effect was removed in the last update, can anyone confirm/deny this behavior? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 18:45, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
: No civ creature will eat the dead unless it's acceptable or such in entity_default.txt. --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 20:59, 3 November 2008 (EST)
::EAT_SAPIENT_KILL is the (a) relevant tag, right? That's acceptable for elves. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 00:40, 4 November 2008 (EST)

::: While scrolling through Legends mode, I noticed that there are only a handful of reasons why wars occur, and one of those reasons is cannibalism, or more accurately, "One of the most significant causes of the conflict was a dispute over the devouring of sapient beings." So perhaps the elven cannibal stories are only by-products of the historical conflict-basis generator? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:02, 4 November 2008 (EST)

== Seeing Bad Things Drives Elves Beserk? ==
On the way out, I had a small elven trading party go beserk for no readily discernible reason. Checking it later I found they had stopped at one of my fortifications, all of which sport stockpiles full of awesome things like «☼Human Bone Bolts [30]☼». (Problems with goblins, carvers weren't too discriminating...aheh...) I later knocked out part of a wall and added doors to funnel the elves away from The Bad Things and that's kept the peace. I'm half-tempted to offer them a «☼Human Skull Totem☼» just to see if elves can achieve nuclear fusion. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 21:03, 13 November 2008 (EST)
:If traders are trapped for too long, they go berserk. I think it is more likely that they somehow got hung up near your fortification and their pathfinding broke. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 00:37, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Elven in-laws? ==

Like many of the above, I randomly decided to live with the elves. the first thing I noticed about them was the ''three and a half'' pages on the units screen dedicated completely to the children. is this normal? it can really be annoying when the announcement box pops up with "Elven name" has grown to be an elf. I expected it a little, but not like this! Either the Elves were more than "tree" huggers or the game had made a seemingly unrealistic script that only made sense to itself. On the bright side, I found the druid!

== At War with Elves ==

I think there should be a section about what happens when your civ is at war with Elves (and Goblins and Humans for that matter). Before I add it in, though, I want to say what I think should be in it:

*There seems to be a gliche where the game zooms you to the elven caravan in spring except that there is no caravan and no message. So basically, your screen just wigs out for a bit.

*Elves only ambush (as mentioned below/above). You might think they attack in Spring... but you'd be wrong.

*Although Goblins are always assumed to be at war with you, elves are not. So on the civ screen Goblins have a red dashed line next to their civ name. Elves, on the other hand, if they are at war with your civ have a red "WAR!" text next to their civ name. I found this confusing, actually. Maybe it should be in the embark screen articles.

*How can you start a war with Elves? Just by ignoring their diplomats and clear-cutting forests?

*Do elves get angry if you cut down undead trees? I assume they are too stupid to know the difference.

*Is there a way to establish peace with elves? What is necessary to do so? (do you need to have the king?)

*Anything else about being at war with elves?

If I find the answers myself, I will add them here.

: They don't like cutting down undead trees. Undead logs are of course not tradable. [[User:Voenix|Voenix]] 11:04, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

== Elven Age ==

It also may be worth mentioning that elves do NOT die from age, due to the lack of [MAXAGE:] tag in their raw, haven't tested in game but it seems more than likely the absence of the tag would cause such an effect. [[User:Althalus|Althalus]] 10:32, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

== Trading ==
My elves stopped bringing, well, anything except cloth. the first 2,3 caravans brought all the nice things like animals, plants, weapons, logs, but not any more.

Why?
possible reasons:
*I have butchered some of the animals they sold.
*I might have mostly sold goblin stuff to 1 or 2 caravans (which does not count as export?), but this shouldn't affect their profits ,right?
*I have rather large log stores (40-80) (but have always agreed and kept to the lowest chopping limits) This probably explains why few/no logs are brought, but not the rest?
*I once accidently offered wooden items for trade, but this didn't even make them leave instantly but just set traders mood low
* diplomacy went well, no elven losses to sieges or ambushes

How can i please them again?

--[[User:Confused|Confused]] 13:36, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

== Tree Felling Warning ==

Some more details on the elven tree felling warning (got this today):

Elven diplomat arrives around the same time as the caravan normally appears, with the following request:

"We elves are partial in particular to the trees in the forests
surrounding your lands. Although we are loathe to spare a
single branch to your senseless slaughter, we are willing to ask
that you cap your tree-fells at one hundred until we next meet.
I will try to return next year as I am able."

You are then given the following options:

- We can grant this request. Let's discuss the specifics, though...
- We cannot stop production just because of your quaint sensibilities.

== Elves follow a drunk? ==

[http://grabug.web.nowhere-else.org/web/Drunkelvenleader.PNG Drunk Elf Leader]

==Images of trees a bad thing?==

(28.181.40d) This one has me bewildered. I was doing some batch trading with an elven caravan, not the first that's come by my fortress, only when I go to trade, they get offended and leave. So I scour the list I'd checked, and the talk page here, and have only two theories: 1. Skulls are still appalling (totems were marked to trade), but considering the above's post on bone being ok, I don't see why not. 2. I had a Herring bone ring, spiked with sapphire and having this image on it: "a well-designed '''''image of''''' a '''Birchen''' blowgun '''in Purple spinel'''." None of my dwarves have been assigned to decorate with wood, which is why the sour trade struck me as odd. Now, I've seen this occasionally with decorations where one material will (somehow) be representing an object made out of another material, but would that trigger the elven disgust at trying to sell them wood by way of a string match? [[User:Jaaz|Jaaz]] 05:12, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

:Skulls are skulls, and bones are bones. Yes, *we* know that skulls are made out of bone but the game doesn't. They're a seperate category of object (and I believe skull totems are thus forbidden). That will probably change once the new material system goes in with the next release. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 19:25, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

40d:Deity

2009-11-07T16:08:21Z

RedKing: adding note about deities appearing in-game

A '''Deity''' is the object of worship chosen by a creature.

Deities are worshipped at a [[Temple]]. Deities will occasionally be encountered in temples, residing in the same spot as a priest. The deity cannot be seen/examined, and can only be spoken to if you are directly next to it. The deity will offer no response, even if you are a worshipper.

[[Category:Adventurer mode]]
[[Category:Fortress mode]]

40d Talk:Elf

2009-05-20T15:49:23Z

RedKing: /* Trading */

==Trading==
I have successfuly traded them Silk items in 0.27.169.32a--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 00:01, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

:Thanks for testing it, I removed the verify tag. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 20:43, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I have to wonder why elves wouldn't accept anything made out of wood, when all they want to trade me is animals in wooden cages, and alcohol in wooden barrels and bows and bolts made out of wood...you know what, almost everything they wanted to trade me was made from wood... --[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 01:32, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

:It's because the elves ask nicely when they take wood from a tree. Dwarves go out and TAKE IT!--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 14:38, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I accidentally tried to trade a wooden bucket with them. The elves scolded me, but still allowed me to trade my stone mugs and scepters. They don't leave straight away anymore.--[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 01:44, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:Ah, I'm glad they're more forgiving now. Fixed. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 02:14, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::I think how they react depends on your broker's social skills, since they sometimes get unpacifiably pissy at me and sometimes only whine mildly. I have on "Anyone may trade".--[[User:Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)|Gandalf the Dwarf (No, really! Look it up!)]] 21:05, 12 November 2008 (EST)

::They may rather be bugged now. There is a bug report that offering them something they don't like will make their mood maximally happy. --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 14:14, 19 November 2007 (EST)

:::Elfs are stupid. I traded some stone crafts for some of their wooden cages, and then i tryed to trade those same wooden cages back and they get angry at me for killing trees! [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 12:09, 1 December 2007 (EST)

What about flours, syrups and the like? Food? The DO buy prepared meals.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:32, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

I've noticed something new which may just be a coincidence - As I scale back my harvesting of wood from local sources (outside) the elves bring me a larger quantity of wood to trade. If I start chopping trees down for roads, etc. then they bring me less. Anyone else notice this? --[[User:Termitehead|Termitehead]] 08:49, 6 May 2008 (CST)

I accidentally offered an elf some wooden items, and after that the Trade option was disabled even after exiting out of the interface and starting a new trading session. Is that supposed to happen? Seems a little harsh to me... --[[User:Theory|Theory]] 14:12, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

:Yes, that is how it works. If you offer to trade something repugnant to a merchant, they will leave in a huff for that season. Consider how you would react if someone offered to sell you a necklace made of puppy and kitten skulls with sewn images in human leather of elephants slaughtering people while on fire. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:36, 13 November 2008 (EST)

I'm convinced that the elves aren't tree-huggers, they're a logging cartel. After all, they SELL you logs and scads of wooden gear. They just don't want you clear-cutting forests because you're muscling in on their turf. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 15:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Fortress in Elf Territory ==

I set one up for fun, and so far (1st winter) there's been no effect. The weirdest part is the large number of named trees; I've avoided cutting them down, and the elves haven't bothered me. I've had hunters chase and kill deer right in their midst with no ill effect as well -- it remains to be seen what happens if he misses the deer and hits an elf, though. Will report back when I find something interesting. [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 10:53, 12 November 2007 (EST)

==Pissed-off the elves...==
They seem to be kinda wussy, considering that I confiscated all of their trade caravan's goods (3k in rope reed cloth of various colors and a little bit of alcohol and seeds) and I expected a siege (my fort is in a boring area, and losing is fun) but they won't attack me. I took their junk a season or two ago. When and how will they attack? --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 19:22, 27 November 2007 (EST)

:Elves are wusses now. It's not even known if non-evil races still siege, much less treehugging wusses like elves. -[[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 01:09, 28 November 2007 (EST)

::[[Siege]]s from non-evil races have been disabled for now. They'll be back once the war arc is complete. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 15:10, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:::I was sieged by humans in I think 39c after a merchant's guild representative was slaughtered by a goblin ambush. [[User:Mingebag|Mingebag]] 01:07, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

==Elves bringing corpses==
The elves usually bring an animal or two in cages to trade, but many times that bring cages full of corpses... It's either all alive, or all corpses. Maybe the animals died in transit? Anybody else have this happen to them?--[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 22:11, 25 December 2007 (EST)

: "It's not dead, it's resting". Er, the humans do this to me too. Pretty sure it's on the known bug list. [[User:Acama|Acama]] 02:17, 30 December 2007 (EST)

:I'm rather certain that if you're in a climate that you can die from exposure, that this is what happens. Have you gotten a shipment of live animals and a shipment of dead ones while at the same site? If not, then this is almost certainly the case. If so, it's possibly a function of a random number and perhaps the extremeness of the climate. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 04:11, 30 December 2007 (EST)

::I seem to recall it being stated that this was due to the caravan passing THROUGH climates where you can die of exposure on the way to your fortress. If the path a civ needs to take runs through freezing or scorching climates, the elves don't give the animals proper temperature care and they die. In contrast, the elves seem to make it through just fine--who knows, maybe the code is slightly different for caravan entities and separate creatures that happen to be carried along with the caravan. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 12:03, 10 January 2008 (EST)

:I actually prefer this method. I like to trap stuff myself so it makes the cages much cheaper, and the corpse can still be butchered for meat, bones, fat, and skulls. Your butcher will grab the entire cage and take it to the butcher's shop to empty it. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 11:20, 30 December 2007 (EST)

== Elves and Animals ==

Doing some testing with using Elves in fortress mode, it seems that they will NOT be attacked by animals. Do you think we might go as far as to write in this page that [NATURAL]creatures will not attack elves? [[User:Zonk|Zonk]] 11:57, 9 January 2008 (EST)

== Elven warnings ==

The elves just warned me about cutting too many trees... I didn't realize that was still in. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 17:23, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== Elven traders ==

I have read that if the human caravans are attacked too many times, that the humans will wage war on you. I have also read that if you cut down too many trees, the elves will wage war on you. But if you let the elven traders die, will they also wage war on you? --[[User:Wafl|Wafl]] 22:14, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

:Don't think so, elves got ambushed by gobbies one year and I did nothing to help them. Accidentally saved one of the traders, though, but he starved to death. --[[User:Gh3yz0r|Gh3yz0r]] 19:17, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

::I've raided an elven caravan for everything they were carrying, and had a human force siege my fortress not long after. There was no compelling reason for them to do so (I didn't raid their caravan, nor were there any human casualties at my fortress) yet they sieged me anyway. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 01:21, 8 January 2009 (EST)

==Blood Covering?==

I have sold some items with blood covering with no negative effects... can anyone confirm if it's true or not? [[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:55, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

I cannot say firsthand, but I've heard in the forums and, I think, elsewhere in the Wiki that blood covering angers the elves.--[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 23:24, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

:As of 0.28.181.40d, I just traded a huge pile of blood covered leather clothes, and the elves didn't seem to mind. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 16:20, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

== Speaking with Halfmen ==

What exactly is the tag that lets you speak with snakemen, ratmen, etcetera? I haven't been able to figure it out as of yet, and I want to add it to a creature I'm making.

In addition, adding the [AT_PEACE_WITH_WILDLIFE] tag didn't stop wolves and bears from ambushing and attacking me; so judging from this that is not the tag that makes them 'immune' to attacks; either that, or the wolves/bears and other large predators ignore that tag. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 15:59, 14 May 2008 (EDT) (Edited later due to forgetting to add nametag)

Animalmen are no longer wildlife in 39e, so they're hostile to elves. Someone should edit the article to express this. --[[User:Neoskel|Neoskel]] 21:40, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

== Elves as of .39c ==

I feel the Elves went under a pretty big overhaul in the latest version. They've turned into tree huggers who do little else but complain, to zerging cannibals who dominate worlds when given enough time. Also little things, like Elves regrowing trees around captured sites, in addition to the aforementioned personality changes, may warrant it's own section, and/or editing.

== Elven Ambushes ==

While they may not seige, They do preform Ambushes.

And I noticed something quite strange...

They ambushed with Mounts. I saw a swarm of Unicorns heading torwards my location. There where no unicorns on my map, so I sent my military to meet them, and when battle was engaged, it said "An Ambush!" And, for each Unicorn, there was also an elf (on the same square)

I'm not sure where to put this in the article though. I've been ambushed by non-mounted elves several times as well. Maybe a new section "Amubsh/Seige habits?"

:I've seen Elves ambush on unicorns too (version 0.28.181.39e), and they had no qualms about slaughtering the puppies I had tied to chains outside -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:09, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

== Elven Trading as of Latest Version ==

It seems to me that the elves are much, much more tolerant than before as to what items they will accept. So far I've successfully given them leather, bone, and shell crafts just fine. I have also tried offering them the same branch of items, and they will happily accept them. They even accept items that have blood on them. They will still reject pure wooden goods.
I haven't fully tested skulls, soap, or other animal byproducts yet. But if I were to hazard a guess, I would say they still will reject any item that has wood involved in it's creation, or any item with decorations of wood.
[[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 09:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

== How do I kill elves? ==

I don't like elves in my fortress and I would like to kill them with my thirty axedwarfs, how would I go about doing this? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:TheLastBarber|TheLastBarber]]

:You can only attack people who have come to your fortress with ill intent. Anger them enough (cut down trees, take their stuff, involve their merchants in unfortunate "accidents", etc.) and they should send forces to attack you, whereupon you can finally take joy in the slaughter. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 15:39, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

::You can also kill Elves that have gone insane, but that would require imprisoning them for a considerable length of time.--[[User:Stryc9fuego|Stryc9fuego]] 14:08, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
:::I can kill ones that go beserk, sure, but the melancholy ones can emo out unimpeded. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 21:06, 13 November 2008 (EST)

== Last edit ==

I've have heard extensive talking about how elves eat the dead. A note to this effect was removed in the last update, can anyone confirm/deny this behavior? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 18:45, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
: No civ creature will eat the dead unless it's acceptable or such in entity_default.txt. --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 20:59, 3 November 2008 (EST)
::EAT_SAPIENT_KILL is the (a) relevant tag, right? That's acceptable for elves. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 00:40, 4 November 2008 (EST)

::: While scrolling through Legends mode, I noticed that there are only a handful of reasons why wars occur, and one of those reasons is cannibalism, or more accurately, "One of the most significant causes of the conflict was a dispute over the devouring of sapient beings." So perhaps the elven cannibal stories are only by-products of the historical conflict-basis generator? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:02, 4 November 2008 (EST)

== Seeing Bad Things Drives Elves Beserk? ==
On the way out, I had a small elven trading party go beserk for no readily discernible reason. Checking it later I found they had stopped at one of my fortifications, all of which sport stockpiles full of awesome things like «☼Human Bone Bolts [30]☼». (Problems with goblins, carvers weren't too discriminating...aheh...) I later knocked out part of a wall and added doors to funnel the elves away from The Bad Things and that's kept the peace. I'm half-tempted to offer them a «☼Human Skull Totem☼» just to see if elves can achieve nuclear fusion. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 21:03, 13 November 2008 (EST)
:If traders are trapped for too long, they go berserk. I think it is more likely that they somehow got hung up near your fortification and their pathfinding broke. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 00:37, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Elven in-laws? ==

Like many of the above, I randomly decided to live with the elves. the first thing I noticed about them was the ''three and a half'' pages on the units screen dedicated completely to the children. is this normal? it can really be annoying when the announcement box pops up with "Elven name" has grown to be an elf. I expected it a little, but not like this! Either the Elves were more than "tree" huggers or the game had made a seemingly unrealistic script that only made sense to itself. On the bright side, I found the druid!

== At War with Elves ==

I think there should be a section about what happens when your civ is at war with Elves (and Goblins and Humans for that matter). Before I add it in, though, I want to say what I think should be in it:

*There seems to be a gliche where the game zooms you to the elven caravan in spring except that there is no caravan and no message. So basically, your screen just wigs out for a bit.

*Elves only ambush (as mentioned below/above). You might think they attack in Spring... but you'd be wrong.

*Although Goblins are always assumed to be at war with you, elves are not. So on the civ screen Goblins have a red dashed line next to their civ name. Elves, on the other hand, if they are at war with your civ have a red "WAR!" text next to their civ name. I found this confusing, actually. Maybe it should be in the embark screen articles.

*How can you start a war with Elves? Just by ignoring their diplomats and clear-cutting forests?

*Do elves get angry if you cut down undead trees? I assume they are too stupid to know the difference.

*Is there a way to establish peace with elves? What is necessary to do so? (do you need to have the king?)

*Anything else about being at war with elves?

If I find the answers myself, I will add them here.

40d Talk:Legendary artifact

2009-04-19T02:12:43Z

RedKing: /* Artifact Quine! */

==What can become an artifact?==
What are some of the things that dwarfs can make into artifacts? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 03:59, 1 December 2007 (EST)
:Any item that your dwarves can craft and has a quality modifier can be made into artifacts. This includes armor, clothing, weapons, all kinds of crafts, furniture, cut gems and whatnot. Notable exceptions include coins(dunnae have quality modifiers), buildings(aint items) and babies(those rascals!). Bars, blocks, raw glass and other such base materials have no quality modifier and cannot be artifacts. I've never seen or heard about legendary meals, drinks and cloth/thread, so I think they can't be artifacts either. Though dwarves will say that they've eaten a legendary meal, when they've consumed a masterpiece meal. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 06:02, 1 December 2007 (EST)
::Ive heard of someone creating a artifact meal and almost having it rot away before getting it into the food stockpile [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 11:00, 1 December 2007 (EST)
==Destruction==
On #bay12games, there was some question about artifacts being destroyed by magma. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Also ways to destroy artifacts which aren't listed: Trading, dumping in magma vent (the floorless bottom seems to count as chasm), and dropping a bridge on it. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 02:10, 20 January 2008 (EST)
:I can't imagine anything not made of a [[magma-proof]] base material *not* being destroyed by any significant immersion in magma. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 20:29, 20 January 2008 (EST)
::And yet because it's an artifact, it may have a special flag that prevents specifically that. Can anyone confirm non-magma-proof artifact destruction in magma? [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 11:52, 24 January 2008 (EST)
::Nevermind. I did. Artifact mechanism melted in magma. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 02:34, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
Can artifacts burn? After a very large confrontation with a couple dozen spirits of fire, my artifact kobold bone shield is putting off lots of smoke and burning anyone that comes near it, but isn't actually on fire (there's no !! next to the name). After about a year of it smoking up my fort, I channeled the ground under it and built a floor on top of it. 5 years later, it's still there, still smoking, and apparently hot enough to make the walls around it warm. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:44, 13 November 2008 (EST)

:By any chance is it encircled with bands of plutonium?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:33, 13 November 2008 (EST)
::Whoops, wrong bone shield. My other artifact bone shield is the buggered one: ''Tabaralen, "The Faithful Moth" This is a giant cave spider chitin shield. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. Is is decorated with turtle shell and goblin bone. This object menaces with spikes of giant cave spider chitin, Native gold and Tower-cap. On the item is an image of two shields in Phyllite. On the item is an image of Tirist Leaderhammer the dwarf and dwarves in turtle shell. Tirist Leaderhammer is surrounded by the dwarves. The artwork relates to the ascension of the dwarf Tirist Leaderhammer to leadership of The Boats of Swallowing in 98. On the item is an image of Mosus Autumnstockade the dwarf in Phyllite.'' [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 10:06, 14 November 2008 (EST)

== Furniture ==

All right, so what can I do with a legendary [[lace agate]] [[hatch cover]]?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:20, 22 January 2008 (EST)
:<s>Same thing as 90% of Artis. Sell it or</s> Build it in a Noble's room. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:04, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:: Artifacts are not tradeable. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:19, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
:::Really... that's weird then since I would swear that I sold a particularly valuable bracelet after killing off it's creator that was otherwise useless... Being that it was a good amount of time ago (possibly even pre-3D) that I actually *tried* to sell an arti, it's quite likely that time has muddled an attempt to sell into a successful sale. I suppose this somewhat nullifies my previous comment, since it's far less than 90% of artis which are buildable. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 08:46, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

We just endured a rather nasty goblin ambush (I'd built a nice castle but hadn't yet built a real military to go with it, so we huddled inside with the drawbridge up for a whole season while I had my dwarves equip and train a small army to "break out" with) and one of my peasants gave me the nicest present after we cleaned up; a legendary goblin bone door made out of the bones of our fallen enemies. I very much want to use this as our castle's main entrance door now. Does anyone know if an artifact's indestructibility applies to trolls and similar door-wreckers? Oh, I've got magma, so I'll make a copy of the save game and test whether magma can burn through such a thing too. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 15:30, 5 May 2008 (EDT)
:It's a constructed nonterrain feature, thus it's going to be knocked down by anything that deconstructs constructions. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 17:38, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

::Hmph. I'll put it a couple of layers deep inside my fortifications, then. Guests will pass through it but invaders will have to fight pretty hard to get there. I'll just have to be satisfied with my giant electrum drawbridge as a fancy front door. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 18:10, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

My current fortress desperately needs display cases or pedestals for artifacts... or statues could hold them; a legendary blowgun, two scepters and a mask would look cool on statues holding them or in cases. You can build furniture artifacts but currently the only way to "display" other artifacts is to create a stockpile for them. Hmm... imagine a legendary king's statue holding several other artifacts. Forced happyness on anyone walking past it. --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 05:42, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:I build museums; small, deeply-cloistered rooms with only one entrance from above and a sort of checkered fringe of alcoves. I put stockpiles in the fringe and traps in every other allowable space, forbid artifacts from all stockpiles, and watch them trickle in. Sometimes I let large gems in too. Still not quite a pedestal but a rather more decorous display than some random pile... --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:23, 10 December 2008 (EST)

== Artifact menu ==

I seem to recall stumbling across a list of the various legendary artifacts I had created. Can anyone tell me how to get to it again?
:If you're talking about current artifacts in a given fortress, you get a new menu option once you've produced atleast one in that fortress. (lowercase {{k|L}}) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:59, 22 January 2008 (EST)

much better
--[[User:NateAustin|NateAustin]] 17:36, 29 February 2008 (EST)

== Trade ==

Is it possible to trade legendary artifacts? I just got a legendary statue and it currently sitting my furniture storage. I 've tried to get my dwarves to bring it to the depot, but it doesnt show up on the trade list. Is it possible? [[User:Robje|Robje]] 18:09, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
:No, Artifacts are not tradeable. They will not even take them to the depot if they sit in a bin marked for trade. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:20, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

== Value ==
The value can be found under the artifact menur "l"
what is the maximum calue you have found on an artifact, mine is platnium high boot for 146400? --[[User:Corhen|Corhen]]
:There is a thread on the forums somewhere with this specific purpose. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 17:02, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

== "Finished Goods"-type Artifacts...? ==

I understand the point of furniture artifacts- they can be built and are great for nobles- but what the heck are you supposed to do with artifact rings/amulets/crowns/scepters/et cetera? I'm sitting on over 300,000 value worth of "Finished Goods" artifacts. I guess my dwarves don't like building furniture... --[[User:Borgin|Borgin]]

:You could abandon the fortress and come back in adventure mode. Artifact rings? Too good! --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 11:01, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

:There might be more point to those types if/when artifacts start getting special magical effects. That's probably a long ways off though. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 12:16, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

:But even in Adventure Mode, artifacts (besides weapons/armor) don't have much of a point, right? To be honest, I've never gone through Adventure Mode- ''it lags my laptop''. Sad, I know. But like BahamutZERO said, at least they'll gain some point ''eventually''... And hopefully soon. --[[User:Borgin|Borgin]] 23:46, 15 May 2008 (CST)

::Well you can trade 'em to merchants in Adventure mode, I'd imagine? Maybe not, I've never tried, and I doubt the shops sell anything you'd care about (ie masterpiece steel or adamantine weapons and armor). Still, I think it's fun to walk around wearing an artifact ring or amulet! At least until an archer kills you. --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 02:45, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
:::As far as I can tell, artifact crafts/goblets/etc are used entirely for boosting your fortress created wealth stat. There is rarely a time when a sudden 200k added to that is trivial.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 14:36, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Artifact craft items work weird in Adventure mode: you can sell them to a shopkeeper for all their goods and cash, and just pick it back up and walk away without guards jumping you for thievery; you can even re-sell it to the same guy if he has any money left. This is a pretty blatant exploit, though of limited use (coins is heavy!). You cannot, however, fast travel with an artifact you've already sold. But what does a wandering professional spearelf do with a turtle bone crown, anyway? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 21:25, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

== selling ==

is there a way to hack DF and be able to sell artifacts? --[[User:0todd0|0todd0]] 20:58, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

== Artifact millstones and gems ==
My dwarves have made three artifacts so far; I know that my emerald flask is just for style, but what of the "Perfect Aquamarine" and the Millstone? Will some noble love having a mill placed in his bedroom, grinding away at all hours of the night when he's trying to sleep, or is it just going to annoy him? As for the aquamarine, can it be crafted into furniture? Will this raise the item's value exponentially? Will it still serve to elevate a room to royal status for satisfying noble needs? If no one has the answers to these questions, I'll do the research myself and post findings.
--[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 14:33, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
::Go ahead and use the millstone -- it'll work just fine. As for the gem, it just looks pretty. Sometimes gem cutters make large gems, and you can trade them away.[[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 11:16, 16 August 2008 (EDT)

== Artifact quality modifier? ==

I know that the quality modifier for regular equipped items is 1.0... for masterful it's 2.0... But what is the modifier for artifact level items? I can't find it anywhere. --[[User:PrettyGrizzly|PrettyGrizzly]] 11:04, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
:The QUALITY modifier for artifacts is the same as Masterful, 2.0. The VALUE modifier of artifacts is MUCH higher than the Masterful's x12, though. :) AFAIK, the only difference is that only Legendary weapon/armor users can equip legendary weapons/armors. I may be wrong but I believe I read something to that effect a few months back. ----[[User:Borgin|Borgin]] 20:00, 12 August 2008
::I have yet to run into anybody who knows the quality modifier for sure. If you can find where either testing or a statement from Toady confirms what the modifier is, it would clear that up and be useful in several pages of this wiki. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 15:14, 11 December 2008 (EST)

== Too precious to put down ==

Am I the only one whose dwarves create legendary... [[floodgate]]s, put them down in the workshop and immediately pick them up again... then continue on with their merry lives just significantly weighed down?

I have never been able to use an artifact yet. My dwarves just never let them go!
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:04, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

:That's never happened to me, fortunately. I've seen three legendary doors, a legendary grate, a legendary bed, and a legendary batman cabinet, and was able to place them all normally. In fact, I've never had a military dwarf who was skillful enough to be worthy of picking up a legendary weapon or piece of armor. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 04:37, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

:I do believe that, in earlier versions, artificiers would carry their artifacts with them until death ripped them from their icy fingers. Perhaps you're just using an older version...? [[User:Borgin|Borgin]] 20:04, 12 August 2008

== Weird Materials (and armour?) ==

"Artifact weapons won't be used by recruits and normal warriors, only by elites and champions." Does this include armour? Also, should we add somewhere that weird materials are possible? Platinum plate armour (which is AWESOME) and the like that aren't normally possible? (I know I've seen it said ''somewhere'', but it's not here) [[User:Droqen|Droqen]] 10:58, 27 July 2008 (EST)

: My Charbone Battle Axe says it should be written down SOMEWHERE :P ...as does my Kunzite Cabinet and Blue Garnet Statue. I have some crazy dwarves. Oh, and that thing about any room with an artifact in it being royal....bunk. I have an artifact Bismuth Chain in a throne room, place didn't get bumped up to royal status until I also threw in the artifact Oaken Hatch Cover. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 11:51, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:: I think that, more specifically, it is that ''most'' artifacts will bump up a room to royal but all. Example: I have a Purple Spinel Door (worth 48000) that bumped up three rooms at once to royal quality. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 20:07, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

Um, my craftsdwarf just got possessed, and he made a bone spear. "this is a rhesus macaque bone spear, highest quality craftsdwarfship, adorned with hanging rings of birch. does anyone how much damage it will do? is it even possible? [[User:Destor|Destor]] 10:32, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:Bone gives a 0.5 damage multiplier, but being an artifact gives it a massive (though unknown) damage multiplier also. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:32, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

== availability ==
Is there a way to hack the game so you can make artifact weapons, even if the dwarf isn't in a fey mood? Or better, for them out of nothing? -Eddren, Fortress extraordinar

:Firstly, you signed incorrectly. Use four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) to sign with the name and date.

:Secondly, you spelled 'extraordinaire' incorrectly.

:Thirdly, no, not without modifying the source, which would mean you'd need to be a developer (which is, at the time of writing, just one person--Toady), or you'd need to decompile the executable to the base code (good luck with that). And after that, you'd need to be knowledgeable enough in the language it's written in to modify the code to suit your needs.

:In short, no. Wait for moods, like the ''rest'' of us do. And don't expect to be able to create '''artifacts''' out of '''nothing'''. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 02:55, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

== Artifact Quine! ==

My Tanner claimed a leatherworking shop and produced a self-referential artifact: Lathonnunùr, "The Mythical Crevices", a donkey leather mask.
:This is a donkey leather mask. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. This object menaces with spikes of dog leather and Alunite. '''On the item is an image of The Mythical Crevices the donkey leather mask in donkey leather.''' On the item is an image of Portalshades the alligator and dwarves in muskox leather. Portalshades in surrounded by the dwarves. The artwork relates to the rise of the alligator Portalshades as an enemy of The Problematic Sack in 29.
Presumably the image is recursive? Anyway, this artifact was apparently ''so cool'' that it created a disturbance in the Force which the dwarves back home managed to pick up, because the very next caravan to arrive offered an empty lead cage decorated with a (presumably also recursive) picture of The Mythical Crevices:
:This is a well-crafted Lead cage. It is decorated with exceptionally worked giant eagle leather and encircled with bands of exceptionally worked Ruby. On the item is a finely-designed image of The Mythical Crevices the donkey leather mask in Cassiterite.
(Note that I'm running with <tt><nowiki>[SHOW_ALL_HISTORY_IN_DWARF_MODE:YES]</nowiki></tt>, and my fortress started in the year 88. I didn't feel like waiting for the whole thousand-year history to generate — if you hit Escape during worldgen, you can start playing with the universe "so far". Useful thing to know.)
--[[User:Quuxplusone|Quuxplusone]] 23:40, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

:I've several recursive artifacts like you mention, as well as caravans arriving with gear decked out in pictures of my artifacts. Maybe a little cave swallow told them? [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 02:12, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

== Reclaim Mode and Artifacts ==

It seems that if you have artifacts, lose your fortress, then reclaim, the artifacts are weirdly affected. Artifacts become sellable, for a start. This kinda makes sense because your dwarves don't care so much about someone else's artifacts, I suppose. The really odd thing, though, is that constructed artifacts (grates, doors, etc) seem to stop being artifacts. Shislugbumal becomes merely an elf bone throne - and if you view the items in the "building" the throne contains a Shislugbumal which isn't marked [B], can't be dumped or claimed, isn't listed in the stocks screen etc. And if the throne is deconstructed, it ceases to exist entirely. It does, however, still give a huge boost to the room value. Is this normal behavior?

PS: Damnit, every time I look to this wiki my dwarves all run off to be eaten by skeletal horses. Bastards. --[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 10:57, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Adventure Mode Artfact Oddity ==
So I go to my fortress where two artifacts, a spear and a boot, happen to be still inside the forge. I take the spear and boot out, equip the spear, drop the boot, and look again. It shows that the spear and boot are still in the forge, with an additional boot outside the forge. Further, when I fast travel and end up fighting a bear, the spear is gone from my hand. Thankfully I'd kept the old one as a spare. Any ideas what's going on here? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 14:57, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

== Only dwarves with a legendary skill will use artifact weapons or armor? ==
This bit was just added, but I thought it had been established that [[Soldiers#Heroes_and_Champions|heroes]] ("great" skill level or higher) can also use them, not just champions (legendary skill level). That selfsame data is referenced under [[Legendary_artifact#Usage|Usage]] in this article. I'd edit the article accordingly, but I'm not really sure of that fact; I just remember Toady mentioning offhand at one point something along those lines, that heroes could use them or similar. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 03:23, 9 December 2008 (EST)

== No fuel needed ==
Just noticed that one of my dwarves used a forge to create some artifact greaves with no fuel... Mainly noticed this due to the fact that he wouldn't use my magma forge, and I had to build a non-magma one to get him to make them... Not sure where to add this, and whether anyone else wants to confirm? [[User:Tr00st|Tr00st]] 04:36, 2 January 2009 (EST)

:Consider it confirmed. I've taken advantage of this multiple times. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 04:51, 2 January 2009 (EST)

::Also of note: Moody Dwarves that use a magma forge will only do so if and as long as it is powered. I've had a dwarf go into a frenzy when the forge he was using lost its power due to the shifting of the magma beneath causing it to lose power. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 14:13, 2 January 2009 (EST)

== Controlled 'glitches' in item number ==
If you forbid an item the moody dwarf has already brought to the shop, it will grab a replacement item for that slot. However, if you unforbid the item afterwards, and the item is still there when he begins (ends?) construction, the previously forbidden items may be incorporated into the artifact.

:Example: Mangrodkast "Ashamed Genius": a fire imp leather shield
:This is a fire imp leather shield. All craftdwarfship is of the highest quality. It is encrusted with bauxite, decorated with leopard leather, and encircled with bands of fire imp leather, sturgeon leather, red diamond, green tourmaline, and nickel. This object is adorned with hanging rings of yellow diamond, donkey leather, and groundhog leather. On the item is an image of a cave spider in green diamond.
:On the item is an image of Ashamedgenius the fire imp leather shield in cave spider silk.
:On the item is an image of dwarves in yellow zircon. The dwarves are traveling. The artwork relates to the founding of Archspears by the Vestibule of Utterances of The Rags of Excavation in 30.

So, it includes: Fire imp leather, sturgeon leather, leopard leather, '''donkey leather''', '''groundhog leather''', bauxite, red diamond, green diamond, yellow diamond, '''green tourmaline''', nickel, cave spider silk, and (rough) yellow zircon, a total of 13 items. The bolded items I had forbade after they made it to the workshop because I wanted the dwarf to use more valuable items, and unforbade them after the dwarf brought such items to the workshop. I actually forbade a third piece of leather, which must have been put away (or possibly simply added to the job queue and thus unavailable) since it was not also added to the artifact.

--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:03, 17 January 2009 (EST)

== Losing an artifact? ==

I just had my worst artifact ever (first and only of this fort, a possession, created a turtle shell idol worth 3k) stolen by a kobold thief. However, there's no note about the artifact being lost on the artifact menu like the page says. Bug, or should the page be updated?

:Re: Losing an artifact

:Not sure if i'm editting this right, I'm not good at wikis. Anyway, several seasons after losing that artifact, it's name simply -disappeared- from the list of my artifacts. Again this seems to disagree with the article...

== Automatic Royal Wrong==
: An artifact furniture does NOT automatically make the room Royal. Case in point, my first artifact in my current fort- a wood bed with an image of cloud in pine. Only worth 3600, so no royal. Only grand. I suppose I should edit the article...

::Pretty much everything on the wiki regarding to room value is either wrong or hopelessly outdated =( --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 21:15, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Raccoon

2009-04-19T02:08:57Z

RedKing:

Ive had raccoons come into above ground buildings and steal from workshops. Stupid raccoon took my fortresses only piece of leather, was gonna make a bag for glass making. [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 11:12, 1 December 2007 (EST)

:Raccoons will make their way for the closest item (or at least a random item in the closest general area) to the edge of the map from which they appeared. If that item is above ground in a workshop, then they can certainly climb up stairs to get it.[[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 11:27, 1 December 2007 (EST)

::I'm not sure about closest item. In my experience, raccoons take the most expensive item lying outside. I had a bunch of mixed gems lying around outside (yes, yes, not very clever but no one was coming to haul them) and the first two raccoons struck before I noticed them. The gems they took? One star ruby and one star sapphire. They left a bunch of schorls and opals lying on the ground. I don't have further data as my hunter and some miners slew all the other raccoons before they could steal any more. --[[User:Actreal|Actreal]] 04:33, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Yeah, you need hunters or guards of some kind. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:14, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

Oh, and just in case anyone was wondering, they can in fact steal artifacts. I'd be fascinated to know what the game does with the artifact in terms of stored data. Somewhere out there there's a raccoon waving an artifact microcline scepter. Must impress all his other furry buddies. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 02:08, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Ocean

2009-03-24T20:39:21Z

RedKing: /* Dwarven desalination pump info needs retesting? */ new section

Has anybody had any luck getting dwarves to use an artificial fishing pier? I tried building walls in a straight line out into the ocean as far as I could, and then building floors off of that, but I don't think the dwarves can catch any larger fish (probably no whaling). --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 00:50, 12 November 2007 (EST)
:You can just make a bridge out and that works fine as well as a pier. But the dwarves use the closest square in the zone to fish, keep mind of that.

== Water Source ==

Is all water considered saltwater when I set my fortress near an Ocean? How can I find freshwater? The aquifer seems to be undrinkable. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:KazUser|KazUser]]
:Please remember to sign your talk page comments with <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>. Also, all water (except water coverings) is saltwater when you're near an ocean. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 14:16, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Waves ==

What exactly does an ocean wave do? can dwarves drown in it? anything else i should know about it? --[[User:Wizjany|Wizjany]] 16:33, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

If it goes downwards (i.e. Ramp/Stairs) it will flood your fort! Apart from that it does not do anything to your dorfs --[[User:Pure W|Pure W]] 11:57, 23 December 2008 (EST)

== Water Pump Exploit ==

Someone slapped the 'verify' tag put on my claim that pumps turning saltwater into freshwater is an exploit without putting anything in the talk page. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]]

For verification I refer you to the very definition of exploit: "An exploit is a quirk of a game that allows players to gain what other players may consider an unfair advantage, usually by making use of a feature that is not working properly or which defies logic."

:Maybe just tweaking the wording to "this might be considered an exploit" would address the issue. That would switch the meaning to "this might be a cheat" from "this might be logic-defying", which, clearly it is.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:57, 2 November 2008 (EST)
::Done. Let's see if they think it's enough. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 23:28, 2 November 2008 (EST)

:::I did it because I seriously doubted its possibility. Simply reverting it would have been good enough for me. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:49, 19 November 2008 (EST)

== Water pump purifier and snow. ==

I embarked on a snowy ocean side where there was quite a few blizzards.
 
It seems like any tile snow has fallen onto water will return to salt, so build a roof over any tile where water will be before you build the floor or you have to tear up the floor and redo it to get rid of the snow.
 
Just a heads up to anyone wanting to move into a snowy ocean. --[[User:Katieness|Katieness]] 16:30, 16 February 2009 (EST)

:That has the makings of an epic fortress [[User:Revan|Revan]] 16:53, 16 February 2009 (EST)

== Dwarven desalination pump info needs retesting? ==

Has anybody tested the information about saltwater-->freshwater cisterns needing to be totally "artificial" in the newest version (40d)? I just played around with it on an oceanside map, and pumped into a reservoir with constructed walls and a constructed roof, but a "natural" white sand floor. Built a well through the top of the roof, and lo and behold it's drinkable. The only thing I can think of is that I did use a small handful of green glass floor tiles right where the water comes out of the pump. But the vast majority of the cistern is floored with natural sand tiles, and the wellhead is over top of one of those. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 20:39, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Ice

2009-03-23T04:56:13Z

RedKing: /* Value of ICE */

Should probably include some information on melting the ice, as this is a common question. [[User:Sinoth|sinoth]] 10:44, 16 November 2007 (EST)

Ice is listed as a fire-safe material, and fire-safe materials are listed as being usable for creation of magma-powered buildings. Does this mean one can make a magma forge out of ice stones? [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 14:29, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:Yep, you can make all 4 magma workshops from ice.

I tryed to get water out of ice by dropping it a floor but it did not work. What am I doing wrong? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 23:49, 30 November 2007 (EST)

:It no longer seems to work as of 33d, I'm removing that part from the page [[User:Klada|Klada]] 20:55, 3 December 2007 (EST)

Regarding melting ice, I found that if you melt ice, drain it off to a 2 or 3, and then shunt the magma off somehow (happens often when magma first flows, due to ebb and flow of the magma waves) the 2-depth water will re-freeze, allowing you to re-thaw it into a 7-depth water. ... I found this out the hard way actually, since the magma waves caused successive re-thaws for the water to flood out my then-thought-to-be-way-too-big water pit. --[[User:CrushU|CrushU]] 21:20, 7 January 2008 (EST)[[User:CrushU|CrushU]] 21:20, 07 January 2008 (EST)

One winter, I filled with magma a room beneath a frozen river to melt it, so my injured dwarves could be helped. Next winter, those rooms beneath are still filled with magma, but the river froze and will not melt. This is on version 0.28.181.39d. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 17:50, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

==Value of ICE==
What's the material value of ice? 1? [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 07:51, 31 December 2007 (EST)

:Whatever ice boulders are worth I would assume. Probably 2. [[User:Lightning4|Lightning4]] 08:31, 31 December 2007 (EST)
::0 Water is free so is ice. It doesn't even have a material entry it is hard coded in the game I think. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 10:56, 31 December 2007 (EST)

:::Yet on a map with water and magma sources one can produce an infinite amount of obsidian, which has value. Not that I'm suggesting obsidian should be valueless, but a fortress making a business out of selling ice sculptures would be fun. :) [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 21:46, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Considering pets can now die in route with merchants due to weather/temp, I bet they don't get far with your masterwork Ice Sculpture. :P --[[User:Kyace|Kyace]] 23:17, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Not entirely true. I just noticed in a glacier game that I can sell ice "stones" to traders at a value of 3 each (with a weight of about 250 or so). Same price as wood, and roughly the same weight, depending on species of tree. Makes for a handy low-value trade with elves. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

== Melting without magma ==

If there is any way to melt ice without magma this would be good to know.
Are there any drinks that are "just water"? ie can I put water into a barrel and have something to drink through the winter, or do I have to get plants and brew beer / wine / rum to not die of dehydration/thirst?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:15, 10 January 2008 (EST)
:Nope, you have to brew something to store a drink in a barrel. Besides, even if you could store water, you wouldn't want to. Dwarves need alcohol, or they work much slower. -[[User:FunnyMan|FunnyMan]] 08:44, 5 February 2008 (EST)

::Well they may work slow for a bit but at least they don't die![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:50, 6 February 2008 (EST)

:::Well, if your map does not freeze all year long, build a [[well]]. --[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 07:03, 23 February 2009 (EST)

== Water pit vs lake / pond ==

Does a water pit have to be a certain number of tiles, depth below ground, or overall "internal depth" (ie go a certain number of z-levels) to not freeze? ie how much of a pit do I need to not only dig, but fill, to have water in my fortress no matter what the weather is like?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 08:21, 5 February 2008 (EST)
:Height doesn't seem to be important. It needs to be either Inside or Below Ground to not freeze, I'm not sure which. -[[User:FunnyMan|FunnyMan]] 08:41, 5 February 2008 (EST) Update: It's Below Ground. -[[User:FunnyMan|FunnyMan]] 18:56, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Well my current thought is to build a wall out of ice to see it melt and irrigate my field... also, I'm building an up/down stair down a few z-levels. Once done I will work out how to drop my ice down it... yes more to do it than anything else.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:49, 6 February 2008 (EST)

== Engraving ice ==

Ice Walls can be engraved. I can prove it if you like. I made the change to the article, change the wording if you want.--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 06:06, 6 April 2008 (EDT)
:This seems a reasonably viable way to train engravers without wasting valuable wall space in a glacial sort of map.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 15:28, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

If a masterfully engraved ice wall melts, does it cause a tantrum? --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 16:06, 18 June 2008 (EDT)
:It causes unhappy thought, like all masterworks. It's not instant-tantrum in new versions. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 23:58, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

== Outside/Above Ground ==

I made a deep channel by actually digging a tunnel (so dwarves wouldn't get stuck by channelling stupidly), so it was all inside. BUT I dug an opening through the floor on one of the corners for some reason (thought it was required for flood gate lever). Anyway, so the water in this corner was inside, but above ground. And in late autumn it froze over, just when I was thinking I would need a well there! All the other water is still intact in the channel, but with a corner of damp ice wall blocking flow. Anyway, if someone else can confirm it doesn't have to be outside to freeze! --[[User:KernelJ|KernelJ]] 10:38, 28 May 2008 (EDT)

:I don't think I follow your situation. If you mined out an L-shaped path underground for water, then dug a channel on top of the corner, that corner tile should be outside/light/above ground, unless you put some kind of construction over it. It's possible that the tile became outside, and then froze to ice, which might cause the game to claim the tile was inside/light/above ground (the game seems to report most outside impassable tiles as inside). However, even if you've got an ice wall in the corner, water should still be able to flow around it diagonally, shouldn't it? --[[User:Marble Dice|Marble Dice]] 12:21, 28 May 2008 (EDT)

:I just ran into this problem myself while trying to build a tower of ice to carve out. I had Inside, Above Ground tiles in my pump tower, and water froze solid the instant it was pumped into them. Water does not have to be Outside to freeze, it only needs to be Above Ground. --[[User:Tomatofruit|Tomatofruit]] 11:01, 29 December 2008 (EST)

== Moving Ice Stone ==

Ice stone or "water" can't be put into a stockpile right?
So it'll stay where it's mined until I decide to make something out of them?
:Yes, it's not listed under stockpile options, which is probably good, because you wouldn't want your dwarves bringing it inside so it melts or firing it out of catapults. --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 11:56, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

== building with ice ==

I know it's possible to make constructions out of ice, but can you make things that use the masonry skill, like tables? I've tried making a mason's workshop near the ice and ordering a table made, but he got rock from a different area. maybe if ice was the only thing available they would make it into furniture? It would be cool, because I made an ice tower and a need a door to go with it. :P --[[User:Tachyon|Tachyon]] 10:42, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

== Magma Melted Ice Pressure ==

Is it just me, or does the water that comes from melted ice have strange pressure characteristics? I tried to get it to U-Bend but it wouldn't come back up to the original source and it seems to flow very slowly for water.

==Ice Constructions melting==

I built a Trade Depot ENTIRELY out of ice (water stone), and it stayed properly frozen throughout winter. However, when the ice melted in spring, the depot melted too!!! I had also built some walls out of ice but they did not melt. Does anyone know why this happened? --[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 07:10, 23 February 2009 (EST)

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2009-03-20T02:58:21Z

RedKing: /* Random Blank Pages */

== New Tutorials - How to list? ==

How and where do we list new tutorials? It's quite lost on me. :(
I would sign, but I don't know how... TinyPirate

== The "Bedroom Design" page is broken ==

When trying to load the page I get this error:

Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/virtual/site152/fst/var/www/html/dwarf/includes/Parser.php on line 2717

It's been this way for a couple days at least. The rest of the wiki works fine. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Phillstac3|Phillstac3]]

:The culprit was too much QD, which caused the page to load too slowly. The wiki gave up when it didnt load fast enough. I have the culprit for now, but I have idea for a more permanent solution. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 08:28, 15 August 2008 (EDT)

:"Design_strategies" seems to be broken too,though with a different error:

:Fatal error: Maximum function nesting level of '100' reached, aborting! in /home/virtual/site152/fst/var/www/html/dwarf/includes/parser/Preprocessor_DOM.php on line 831 [[User:Daedalusai|Daedalusai]] 12:05, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

::A lot of templates seem to be broken at the moment. The pages using them are displaying the code, instead of what they're supposed to. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 17:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

:::The latest Mediawiki update seems to have broken all of the templates using ParserFunctions. I have no idea where the problem is, I don't use that extension. [[VengefulDonut]] seems to be the man who knows best about it. I've disabled the extension for now but I can re-enable it if we know we can fix it. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 18:32, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

== "new version" ==

ShunterAlhena changed "new version" to "new (3D) version" to "3D version". I changed this to "Z-axis version", to reduce newbie confusion (thinking there's a fully-3D graphical version could be disappointing) but now I'm starting to wonder if maybe "new version" would be best after all. As far as I can tell, "new version" doesn't just mean all of the versions since the October 2007 release, but rather the ''latest'' version. 
That said, that's what I'll tweak it to. --[[User:JT|JT]] 19:47, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

:IMO if the phrase "new version" is being used to refer to the "Z-axis version" of the game, then it isn't really clear enough. With Toady's regular updates, talking just about "new versions" is a little too ambiguous. How about the phrases "multi-level version" or "multi-floor version"? Either of those would be clearer I think. "Z-axis version" is also good for me. (This is my first suggestion/edit on a Wiki, so I hope it turns out ok!) --[[User:Saiph|Saiph]] 07:59, 28 November 2008 (EST)

:: You're correct about it being ambiguous. Your suggestion is ok (and welcome to the Wiki! :-)), but I don't think the notice box is still needed. Its purpose was to keep people from just copying over old material from the archived wiki to fill gaps in this one, but that's not really a danger anymore, so I just removed it and moved the release date down to the download link. — [[User:Alya|Alya]] 10:40, 28 November 2008 (EST)

== Offline Version? ==

Is there an offline version of DwarfFortressWiki (ala [http://static.wikipedia.org/ Wikipedia])? I'm going to be doing some traveling, and would like to use this resource when I don't have internet access :) --[[User:Sim9]], unsigned

:I know that obtaining one is possible. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 23:31, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

:I was told that a torrent was circulating on 4chan and other places but I don't know anything else about it. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 12:46, 7 June 2008 (EDT)
:Go to [[Special:Export]] then go to [[Special:Allpages]] in another window/tab. Make a copy of every article's name. Paste it into the export page and click export. Now its just a matter of finding a way to parse the xml file you get.

:I now have an offline copy. I can post it if anyone is interested in a copy :) --[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 22:57, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

:: Just found this: [http://www.wikitaxi.org/delphi/doku.php/products/wikitaxi/index WikiTaxi]. It took me a while to find a suitable program for viewing Wiki XML dumps, so I thought I'd save some others the time. By 'suitable', I mean easy to use and without requiring a lot of extras before it will work (most I found require you to set up a server with a MySQL database and apache - I already meet those requirements on my desktop, but that almost defeats the purpose of downloading the wiki in the first place). This one however is completely portable - I can have it on external storage and use it on any computer I find myself needing to. --[[User:Tyranic-Moron|Tyranic-Moron]] 13:57, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

== Coincidence? ==

I got a quote that said: 
"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" 
--Savok 
right after creating this account... Is this a coincidence or a command? 
--[[User:Peewee|Peewee]] 20:02, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

:Coincidence. That's the end of a newbie-welcoming template that someone found funny enough to put in the [[Main Page/Quote|Quote list]], which delivers randomized quotes to the main page. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:49, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

::Both coincidence AND command. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:41, 1 June 2008 (EDT)
:::I, personally, think that it is hilarious.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 16:41, 23 February 2009 (EST)
== Russian Interwiki ==

I've made a deal with the admin of the Russian wiki, we can both link to each other. So if you know Russian, you're welcome to add links to the bottom of pages to their equivalent Russian pages.
For example, on the [[Carp]] page, I have added [[ru:Карп]] - so there is now a link to its Russian counterpart in the left-side navigation bar, under the "In other languages" header. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 13:37, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

:Looks like the other wiki may be down/broken. I don't have a suggested action though. -- [[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 13:33, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::I have made new russian wiki. URL: http://www.dfwk.ru. I do translation now. -- [[User:igoreklim|igoreklim]] 22:15, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

== Many Laughs ==

Congrats to whomever made the april's fool's day changes. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 04:34, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

:Agreed. I didn't think of doing anything myself so kudos for going in. Nobody changes it for the whole day, I'll revert any reverts. :) --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 08:56, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

== Navigation on bottom ==

Since recently (2 or 3 days) the navigation and search box are at the very bottom of every page (opera user). Can someone please fix this? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 07:38, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

:It's at the bottom of the page for me too, and I'm using Firefox. [[User:Klada|Klada]] 11:43, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

::Confirm this is happening for me as well, Firefox 2.0.0.12 ubuntu 7.04. --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 14:56, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

:::For what it's worth, ditto, and FF 2.0.0.12 Windows XP Home Edition Version 2002 Service Pack 2. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:07, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

::::Hah! Sorry, meant Senso. XD Good to have another confirmation regardless. Anyway, I went ahead and emailed him. It's weird how it just cropped up all of a sudden, hopefully something easily fixed. --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 02:00, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

:It should be back to normal now, sorry for that. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 11:54, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

::No worries, looks good here. Thanks! --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 17:54, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
::: *[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] jumps up and rejoices*
:::: "[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] was pleased to have a mandate deadline met lately."? --[[User:FunnyMan|FunnyMan]] 06:13, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

== "American" English or Rest-Of-The-World English? ==

Just a minor question, while spell-checking articles, I've encountered a few discrepancies between the two, but I usually see the "rest of the world English" more. So what's the official rule here, assuming we're going for a constant? --[[User:Snoob|Snoob]] 08:40, 7 March 2008 (EST)

:Haha. You don't sound biased at all ;). I figure we can go one of two routes. We can either claim that DF is an american topic, since it's being made in america by an american and the wiki is on an american domain—or we can say DF is an international topic since people from all over are funding Toady. If it's an international topic, we might as well follow the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#National_varieties_of_English wikipedia manual of style]. Wikipedia has no preference over the variant used, but there should be consistency in each article. The first user who makes an edit which disambiguates the variety being used in the article is considered the first major contributor and all subsequent edits to that article should use the same type of english. If in doubt, we have history pages. I think the reason you see british english more often in the wiki is because we've had a few editors who in their extreme modesty decided british english is superior and changed several of the american english articles over. I've noticed this happening on a few occasions. (please dont do that). [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:53, 7 March 2008 (EST)

::I second sticking with the Wikipedia's Manual of Style for language. And as a note, there isn't a "Rest of the World English." In fact, the language is documented to vary [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_accents_of_English_speakers|as much as the countries that speak it].
::So, how does the Namibian English variant sound to everyone? At least then most of us are at an equal starting point! :P --[[User:TarrVetus|TarrVetus]] 11:25, 7 March 2008 (EST)

:::I made a pretty bad assumption there, I suppose. I was trying to not sound biased, but I suppose I accidentally let it creep in somewhere. I'll just leave the variations to you guys and stick to cleaning up actual typos then. :P --[[User:Snoob|Snoob]] 11:37, 7 March 2008 (EST)

::::Hehe. I can sympathize, Snoob. I've had this debate with myself in the past, though it was from the other side. --[[User:TarrVetus|TarrVetus]] 13:17, 7 March 2008 (EST)

:::::This is a late reply, but I am an American in China. Here, English is classified either as American English or British English, and American English is widely preferred even though British English is taught to beginning students. I wouldn't say calling it "rest-of-the-world English" is very accurate. I would venture that many countries in Latin America also prefer American English, but what do it know.--[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 01:16, 17 May 2008 (EDT)
::::::Don't you mean, "but what do we know"? --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 20:09, 21 February 2009 (EST)

== Version updates ==

There's a new version out today, so the version number and release date need changing. Unfortunately I have absolutely no idea how to do this as they appear to use some kind of function instead of being typed in. Somebody with the know-how fancy making the change? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 10:04, 24 February 2008 (EST)
:[[Template:current/version]]
:[[Template:current/lastupdate]]
:[[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:15, 24 February 2008 (EST)

== Quote randomization ==

VengefulDonut, if you want to randomize that for improved quality, you'll need to do it right: Many (most?) of the quotes in the quote archive are in an ARCHIVE: They are bad quotes never intended to be reused. Also, what do we do when we get new quotes? Do they get put in a database, not to be used till the RNG chooses? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 20:11, 7 February 2008 (EST)

:What would you like? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:36, 7 February 2008 (EST)

::I suggest that one quote is permanant, and the other quote refresh everytime we visit the page. So far, I noticed that even if I refresh the page, the same quotes stay. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 05:49, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:::A new quote on the left, and a randomized archive quote on the right? As for the refesh: the template checks the time. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 06:35, 8 February 2008 (EST)

::::What is the tick? Every few minutes? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 08:14, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:::The template checks the time, but the time doesn't update because the server caches the page. It gets a new one whenever the server refreshes it; you can force this by editing the page or by clicking the preview button. Also, I could make it so that one of the quote boxes picks from the newest x quotes. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:43, 8 February 2008 (EST)

::::Having a newer quote on the left and an archived one on the right sounds better than a permanent quote on either. PS. Might want to remove a few of them, like the 'palisade' quote. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 11:47, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:::::The goal of the quote archive was to archive every single quote which ever got to the main page. If you want to thin out only the best quotes, I suggest you use a separate database for that. Even then, how "good" is a quote is very open to interpretation and taste. If I had to remove all the quotes I find bad or unfunny myself, I'd probably remove 80% of the present quotes in the archive. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 18:46, 8 February 2008 (EST)

::::::Ok. The right quotebox now chooses from the last 10 quotes instead of from among all of them. If anyone feels like they want to prune out or fiddle with quotes, go for it. I think what I've set up should be pretty straightforward, but if you have questions I'll be glad to answer them. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:11, 8 February 2008 (EST)

:::I added two new quotes (40, and 41), but only 40 is showing up at the moment, am I doing something wrong? --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 10:10, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

::::You did it exactly right. The left quote box randomly chooses between all quotes. The right quote box randomly chooses between the 10 newest. It will come up eventually. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:17, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

:::If possible can we implement a check to insure that the left quote and the right quote are not in fact the same quote? I suppose it wouldn't be a big deal with a small quote, however when it is large, such as the 7 line one I ran into today appearing in both boxes, it makes the page seem a bit crowded and symmetrical. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 14:51, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

::::We could do that, but the probability of identical quotes is 1⁄totalquotenumber, so I don't think it's really needed. --[[User:Savok|Savok]]

:::::And yet it still manages to happen. like at the time of this edit. --[[User:Zeta|Zeta]] 12:30, 19 January 2009 (EST)

== Requesting installation of ParserFunctions extension ==

It would be nice if the ParserFunctions[http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:ParserFunctions] extension was installed (#if, #expr, etc). It would be useful for having templates that exclude parts of it if no values are provided. Note: I cannot find a place for requesting extensions --[[User:Aygar|Aygar]] 13:00, 21 January 2008 (EST)

:ParserFunctions has been '''installed'''. I did a quick test and it works. Let me know if you run into problems. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 11:54, 22 January 2008 (EST)

== Translation ==

I've got requests for either having a German wiki or Namespace. I'd like to have everybody's opinion on this. If you people think that having German (and maybe other languages eventually) translations on the main wiki is going to be annoying, tell me. I can also setup a new wiki on a subdomain (de.dwarffortresswiki.net for example). How would it be best organized? Should I use [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Template:Languages LanguageTemplates]? Is there a need for other additional languages? --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 09:31, 17 January 2008 (EST)

:Since Dwarf Fortress is only available in English, if you can play the game, you can also read the wiki. I really don't think a German (or any other language) wiki version is worth the effort.--[[User:Siliziumleben|Siliziumleben]] 14:22, 18 January 2008 (EST)

::My oppinion also. This doesn't mean we should stop those enthusiam people though. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 13:06, 17 January 2008 (EST)

::There's a big difference between understanding a game interface and reading long and complex tutorials, descriptions, discussions etc. I know French people who play this game; they can understand the UI but they use the French wiki for reference. Also, if I decide to use a separate wiki/subdomain, this will be totally transparent to you. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 16:40, 17 January 2008 (EST)

:::My first language, the one I used since I'm born, is French. Yet, I way prefer this wiki over the french one. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 10:06, 18 January 2008 (EST)

::::I'm French too, you know. But when I offered to host a DF wiki, I didn't do it in French because I know English is widely used. But I'm still glad that someone else started a French wiki. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 22:58, 20 January 2008 (EST)

:::::I don't see what harm could come from hosting a German, Japanese, and Russian wiki. It's not like it will interfere with the English one. Also, as a student of languages, I would love to read equivalent articles in German and Japanese. --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 22:01, 17 February 2008 (EST)

::::::I am german and while I can read english books like german ones, I have to agree that being able to use a UI and understanding the finer points in a tutorial etc. are two quite different things. I guess that if the bandwidth of the wiki is no burden on anyone, it could actually lead to an influx of new ideas and players, which is very important for a "community" game like DF. --[[User:Caiburn|Caiburn]] 20:44, 18 February 2008 (CET+1)

Hello everyone! 
I'm from Austria speaking and reading English very well, why should we not translate this wiki? If we are enough fellows we could do a good job. So give us a chance ;)– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Geri|Geri]]

----

Like [[User:Eagle of Fire|EoF]] implied, a translated wiki is simply not nearly as up to date as the main one. If it was, we would have to rely on an active community of those fluent in English and the language of the translated wiki to keep the wikis coordinated. For this reason, I do not believe that we can successfully create a DFwiki in a different language with the resources that we have at the moment. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:21, 11 December 2008 (EST)

== Version of MediaWiki? ==

Sorry if this is completely the wrong place, but does anybody know which version of MediaWiki these pages uses?
Maybe that information could be included in the page About DwarfFortressWiki? --[[User:Gauteamus|Gauteamus]] 17:00, 17 December 2007 (EST)

:I think I found out. This page: [[Special:Version]] says the version is 1.10.1, which should mean that limited #for-loops are supported. I will delete these comments soonishly, but will let them stay for a while incase someone has comments --[[User:Gauteamus|Gauteamus]] 17:28, 17 December 2007 (EST)

== Combat Logs? ==

What about a section where people could post cool combat logs from adventurer mode. This would different from the "Stories" section, which is more prose. (This is 'cause I'd like to post the log of a battle I had with a particularly clumsy Giant, who slammed into a wall allowing me to stab him in the back of the head for the eventual win. Its no dragon-slaying tale, but I still think its good.) --[[User:Wahnsinniger|Wahnsinniger]] 11:59, 2 December 2007 (EST)

== Humor? / Link to quote archive? ==

Any thoughts about possibly linking [[Main Page/Quote Archive]] page somewhere on the main page? Its an orphan at the moment and is pretty funny and relevant. [[User:Vanan|Vanan]] 15:19, 13 November 2007 (EST)

I'd like to be able to see that happen. New people coming here might get overwhelmed if we don't amuse them with some good humor here and there.--[[User:AlBorland|AlBorland]] 13:42, 20 November 2007 (EST)

:I second that. This second is adorned with hanging rings of Goshenite and menaces with spikes of Goshenite. - [[User:Laugurinn|Laugurinn]] 22:57, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

Where does one stick new funny quotes? Namely, this:
 ""Thikut Atheludib, Marksdwarf cancels shooting at Archery Range: Interrupted by Groundhog pup" - What brave soldiers I have" [[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 18:45, 10 December 2007 (EST)
:That's not exactly funny, but [[Main_Page/Quote]]. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMario]] 00:43, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

Just for the record, does anybody mind if I put a link to the [[Main Page/Quote Archive]] page on the front page? [[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 12:58, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

:I say go for it. --[[User:Zeta|Zeta]] 22:27, 12 January 2009 (EST)

== Demystify messages? ==

Probably against the spirit of 'losing is fun', but how about a page that explains smoe of the more cryptic messages, such as; 'job item misplaced' and 'job item lost or destroyed'? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:43, 8 November 2007 (EST)

Also, is there a suggestions pages? This probably isn't the best page to add ideas... [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 16:44, 8 November 2007 (EST)

== Importing old entries ==

What's the stance on importing entries from the old wiki for stuff like general item stats? Most of them are still correct (or nearly so) and it would be nice not to have to switch between this and the old wiki any more. I can add a disclaimer to them stating I pulled them from the archives if that's appropriate. --[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 15:07, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:IMO (and I'm not admin or anything) it should be ok but only if you are 100% sure EVERYTHING is correct, and have verified it personally. I've edited at least one article someone copy-pasted with no changes that had old info in it so far and it makes me sad. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 15:38, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
::Yes, I second this. Please be diligent if you are going to import old information. Even if you can't do it yourself, at least categorize it as needing verification so someone with the free time can. --[[User:EighenIndemnis|EighenIndemnis]] 15:37, 6 November 2007 (EST)
:You could use [[Template:Verify]] to indicate that something needs confirmation in the new version. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:47, 6 November 2007 (EST)

I have noticed an increase of pages in which only an old Wiki page is copied/pasted along with a warning that it was copied and thus may not be accurate. Is it just me or that's ''exactly'' what we didn't want to happen, and one of the reasons we started fresh with the new Wiki to begin with? --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 01:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)

== Basic Format ==

I think the [[Farming]] page is a good format for most of the key pages, perhaps the structure from the archive should be followed. --[[User:Infinity|Infinity]] 05:56, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:Agreed, I've tried to copy this style on several pages, e.g. [[Gear Assembly]]. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 23:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

I would like to add a request for a 'build tree' of sorts. It would, for example, make figuring out how to get iron bars a whole lot less frustrating. --[[User:Dogcow|Dogcow]] 17:18, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Hello, I've added a whole page on the various metals you can make now. This is my first time editing a wiki so feel free to make corrections for me if you want, just leave me a message on the page letting me know where I went wrong. Also, since some Alloys involve smelting 3 bars of metal now, I have included a new template called Alloy3 to display these. I'm not sure on the colors though so have at it where I'm off :) --[[User:Chthon|Chthon]] 11:33, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:Would like to second the build-tree suggestion. New player here, and I use the wiki to reference items I require but do not know how to build. I may be a bit slow, but it took me half a year to figure out I needed a Weaponsmith to make new Iron Picks. The wiki page only mentions the Metalsmith's Forge, and it never occurred to me that Weaponsmiths use the same workshop, since a pick is physically both wood and iron. Having a description that says exactly what is needed to create an item would be very useful for new players. --[[User:T.D.|tuxdelux]] 15:15, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

::A pick is actually all iron, at the moment, no wood to it. I expect that Toady will eventually get to redoing that whole system, but I doubt that he'll touch it until then. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:21, 11 December 2008 (EST)

== Change guide? ==

Was just thinking, perhaps one of the links (or sections) on the main page should be a guide to the major changes between last version and this one. Yes, a TON of stuff has changed, but a lot also has not, and a lot of the core concepts are the same... so I would imagine many of us who have played the previous version(s) would love a section where we can see a list of new basics we have to learn, along with links to those things' individual pages... like, z-axis (obviously), mechanisms, fluid dynamics, nobles, elevation/slope, farming... you get the idea. --[[User:Cliffjeff|Cliffjeff]] 11:43, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:Yea, I'm thinking not. Isn't the whole point of DF finding things out on your own? "Losing is Fun" and all that. Ok, so if we summarized all the changes, and someone (like me) didn't want to know we could not just not look at it right? What can I say? I'M WEAK! If we summarize the changes I will CONSUME it! (I'm only here because I still have another 6 hours of work before I can go home and try it!)

::Meanwhile, I'm lazy and stubborn and would love a consolidated list of only new things I need to know =p and I'm also trapped at work and unable to mess around in the game :( but if the whole point was finding out things on your own, why would we have a wiki? ;p --[[User:Cliffjeff|Cliffjeff]] 15:58, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:::I agree, I think the change guide is a good idea, and it would also help us direct our attention at the articles that are likely to need the most work. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 16:01, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

::::It ought not to be very hard to generate a basic change guide based on the official change notes, and then update it as the details are discovered. --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 16:26, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:::A change guide 'page' might be useful pointing out major differences but I think the style of the wiki should be aimed at new users who know nothing of previous versions. I think we should not compare old/vs new as a rule, but if necessary we should include comparisons at the bottom of a page as apposed to the main article. That is how I am writing my edits. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]] 23:26, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::The thing is, the whole idea of the wiki kind of goes against 'finding things out on your own'. If you want to be completely surprised by a game, don't read a wiki specifically intended to reveal all the details about it... sure, we do put warnings on the most spoily stuff, but at the end of the day this is a Wiki intended to document everything about Dwarf Fortress, so just about every page is going to be a spoiler to some degree. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 03:12, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

:To add my take on this subject... I think that this is a gigantic game, in some ways more complex then any of the Elder Scrolls game. I mean, in the ES games, you have weapons, armor and others... In this game you have an exceptionally large number of items of many different types and purposes... It's very difficult for newbies to fathom exactly what an item is used for. Without this Wiki, I think a lot of people would struggle with this game. [[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:59, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

:Although this is a bit late, Toady does summarize version changes in a text file in the game's main folder. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:21, 11 December 2008 (EST)

== Possible bugs ==

Hi, this is my first time writing to any wiki.

I am writing about possible bugs. I have seen, that some sections of this wiki contain information about bugs. I think I have found one, but don't where to put it, or whether it is already here. I am also sorry, if this isn't the right place. If so, please delete this entry.

Anyway, if your furniture stockpile isn't big enough, and you try to put furniture into a specific room,it is sometimes possible, that that furniture won't be put. Instead, it will be blinking forever. You can change it functioning (make bedroom, throne room...) but to be honest, I don't know if this item is actually there, or not.

== alternate site???? ==

there appears to be a very similar site at
http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/Immigration
(not just that adress)
what is the diffrence???

That's the address which was originally used for the site, before Senso registered a separate domain for it (dwarffortresswiki.net). Both domains are valid and point to the same content, so they're interchangeable. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 20:59, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

== Shutting down the archive ==

In about two weeks, I will shutdown the read-only archive (http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net) as I believe we've been using the current versions long enough. I'm also looking at ways to reduce the server load, disk space used and bandwidth consumed. So there. If articles were not ported to the current wiki, please do ASAP. If you have objections, please speak now. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 12:33, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

:Regarding outright deletion: I'd prefer you didn't. Is there at least a way to preseve it in some downloadable format? The old version of the game was interesting in its intrinsic danger, and besides that, I have a succession game using that version. I think a downloadble, locally-running copy would be a good idea.--[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 13:19, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

::Mediawiki allows for database dumps to be made. Any chance you could do this? I am interested in this content. See http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Backing_up_a_wiki - you'd just follow the procedures for an xml dump and make the resulting files available for a limited time. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 17:14, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

== PSA ==

While the intention is great, the main page isn't the place to post it.
It should be added to the editing/creating dialog, probably so that it appears under any previews, and above the actual editing box. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:53, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

:Gladly - just tell me how to do it without the required permissions. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 19:50, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

::It was my intention that you would bring it up to Senso to do it. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:35, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Agreed, putting editing pet peeves at the top of the main page is overkill. Ask Senso to make the changes Edward suggests.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:34, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

:Frankly, I think it's important enough, and unknown enough, that it should stay on the front page. -- [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:58, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

::If it does stay on the main page, professionalize it a bit more and remove the sigs. My vote's for taking it down anyways. I almost hit revert as a "knee-jerk response to vandalism". The main page article is not a place to air your grievances about how people edit. --[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 06:02, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

:::If it could be moved to the Editing/Creating page, then I wouldn't object to moving it off the main page. But I'm on several wikis, and not one of them lists the sign-off info anywhere that's easy or intuitive to discover. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:06, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

::::It can be, it just needs edit permissions on the host. While it looks a tad better now (thanks RF), it's still entirely out of place. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 20:34, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

::::This is a very jarring thing to see on the main page. It is completely out of place and affects the first impression people get when they see the wiki. It just makes us look bad. Put the issue on Senso's talk page and he is likely to add it to the editing dialog, but it should be taken down first. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:34, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

::::I have removed the PSA under the premise that changes to the main page are wrong until proven right, rather than the other way around. We can return it after agreement has been reached regarding its presence. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:44, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:I'll mess with the code today and include such a warning directly on the Editing template. I'm also tired of people not using signatures. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 15:59, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

There may be a page in the MediaWiki namespace that can be used. [[Mediawiki:Edittools]] will add text _after_ the edit box; I don't know about before. I know Wikipedia has a feature for that but I think it's an extension. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:41, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

Huh. after going through the source code I can now say there is NOT one - there's ones for all kinds of special cases (creating a page, recreating a deleted page, editing a protected page as an admin, editing a Mediawiki: page as an admin) but not one to just always show. Nevermind, then [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:54, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

:I don't even see a huge problem with people not signing their posts, anyway. If a person only makes one or two posts, knowing their "name" isn't important. People who intend to stick around should be [[template:newbie|clued in]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 15:39, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

== Lets Download Dwarf Fortress! ==

Well you can't, and that's the issue. Are there any plans on changing the main page's link to a mirror? Since this wiki comes in second on Google only to the official Bay 12 homepage, it'd make sense for there to be a working download for potential players. [[User:Raithah|Raithah]] 01:05, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

: I added the links for mirrors 2-4 to the downtime notice. "Mirror" 1 is B12G itself. - [[User:FunnyMan|FunnyMan]] 01:15, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
::Per my PM to FunnyMan, is there a mirror link available for the Mac version? These are just the Windows version. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 21:35, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
::Though for obvious reasons I am unable to vouch for it's integrity (ie. infected by virus, spyware, etc.), [http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Games/Dwarf-Fortress.shtml|Softpedia] has a mirror of the most recent version, OS X edition. [[User:Raithah|Raithah]] 00:33, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
:::The download link is just the Bay12 site again, which is down, however Funnyman has just added a Mac download mirror link to the main page. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 16:26, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== ETA? ==

I miss Bay 12 Games! Does anyone have any idea when we should be getting it back? I just want to know if I should stop constantly clicking my bookmark and sit back and wait for a few weeks. --[[User:Zoodle|Zoodle]] 16:23, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

: I think it's safe to say that since we can't make donations to Toady while the site's down, it'll be back up pretty soon. --[[User:Fossaman|Fossaman]] 13:58, 27 October 2008 (PDT)
::You can make donations: if you go to an archived version of the page, the paypal buttons still work since paypal didn't crash. According to Toady on at least two occasions, the site was supposed to be back up today (monday). But that doesn't seem to be happening. It should happen soon, though. --[[User:Penguinofhonor|Penguinofhonor]] 22:23, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

::Looks like the main site just came back up. The forums are still not back up yet, though I imagine they will be within the next few hours. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 08:32, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

::You'll be pleased to know that the forums are now back up as well, and seem to be functioning normally. [[User:Ryo|Ryo]] 13:00, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

::So Random### decided to say that the forums are '''not''' up. Last I checked, being able to reach the "you are banned" screen means the forums are back up. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 14:16, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
...huh? (way to insult me behind my back btw - if you have something to say, next time say it on [[user talk:random832|my talk page]]) - anyway, it was a DNS problem, and the page I did see was a PHP error message, NOT a forum software "you are banned" messages. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:35, 10 November 2008 (EST)

== Forums? ==

A short time ago but after the forums crashed I got a pair of PMs claiming to be from the bay12games forum.

Are these forums up somewhere, or how would I explain those PMs? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]]

:Last I checked, the b12g forums were actually back up and linked to from the bay12games site. <_< --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:47, 20 November 2008 (EST)

::Nope, when I go to /forum/ I just get a mostly-empty directory view --[[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]] 09:14, 21 November 2008 (EST)

DNS problems. See instructions at http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php?title=Main_Page&oldid=34213 . [[User:Random832|Random832]] 11:57, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:Not helpful- I've already flushed my DNS several times, used ''different'' DNS's, and tried that fix- I'm still getting the 'empty' forum folder. And according to cmd>ping, the DNS addresses are already correct.

::Strange. Try going specifically to http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 22:21, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:::404, actually --[[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]] 01:03, 22 November 2008 (EST)

::::OK then, what IP address is it indicating when you ping the server (which you mentioned above)? The new, current IP (which I double checked) for bay12games.com is 216.97.239.212. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 03:59, 22 November 2008 (EST)

::::That -is- the IP ._. In fact, that`s been the IP for months.
::::That said, manually going to http://216.97.239.212/forum/ worked, but trying to click -anything- redirects me to a 404 on bay12games.com/forum/. About the only other thing I can see is that I'm getting wwwRedirect in the GET string.
:::: Hm, found what may be the issue. Despite having flushed/registered the DNS a week or so ago, my DNS records still have the wrong IP in for bay12games. Confusing as all get-out, since /dwarves/dev_now.html works fine for me. {{unsigned|Sukasa}}

:::::The ping command should resolve DNS entries exactly the same as your browser would, so that was why I was asking (i.e. "ping bay12games.com" should resolve to 216.97.239.212). Glad you've got it nailed down as a DNS issue though. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 19:25, 22 November 2008 (EST)
:::::Uh, by the way: do you access the internet through a router? Sometimes they can muck things up, and in fact I've seen one cause problems by caching DNS entries. Fixing such a problem would vary from one router to the next, though. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 19:34, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:::::It's a Linksys Router, yes. It's definitely not the router and instead my internal cache, since the problem persists even when I bring my laptop to work or to University. --[[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]] 23:53, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Firefox also maintains its own cache, IIRC. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 11:13, 24 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Nah, I use Chrome. Anyways, managed to fix it, thanks for the help --[[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]] 16:51, 25 November 2008 (EST)

== Notice box at the top of Main Page ==

As we can see from the edit history, [[User:Alya|Alya]] states that "it was intended to ensure information from the old wiki didn't just get copied over; it isn't really needed anymore, especially that prominently." [[User:N9103|Edward]] replies, "Versions still update regularly, and accuracy should always be a priority." 
Right under "Download Dwarf Fortress" is emblazoned the same text as the notice box except for a reminder to ensure that info is accurate for the ''latest'' version. I'm inclined to think that the sort that wouldn't do that won't be listening to the notice box any more than Rules [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community_Portal#F|F]], [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community_Portal#V|V]], and sometimes [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community_Portal#Y|Y]]. No, ''especially'' Y. 
Opinions? 
--[[User:Savok|Savok]], 
not wanting to start revert wars at 00:44, 30 November 2008 (EST)

:I think that's going to end up being true, what with the current state of the average human brain. Though I'm fresh out of suggestions, except giant red blinking text. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 01:13, 30 November 2008 (EST)

:I have to agree with Alya. We barely have a problem with people adding inaccurate info of any kind, let alone outdated info. It gets outdated on its own, and if we're lucky, we spot it and fix it. We could toss the notice box altogether.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:25, 30 November 2008 (EST)

Consensus seems against me. Notice Removed. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 05:21, 30 November 2008 (EST)

== "Meeting Hall' page for general questions. ==

Wowwiki (for Warcraft and related things) has a 'Village pump' page, that functions as kind of a general question area. Is there something like that here, or could there be? I've seen references to the forums, but the links don't seem to work, usually, at least for me. (I'm on a company network, which may be why.) --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 23:03, 9 December 2008 (EST)

:I'd say the forums really are the best place for that stuff. It's a pity if you can't use 'em. But feel free to ask questions on any talk page on the wiki, however; there are plenty of people who watch [[Special:Recentchanges]].--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:00, 10 December 2008 (EST)

::Since Toady fairly recently restructured the forums, some of the links to them are still broken. If you can't access [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php the real forums], though, I can't help you.
::Like he said, most questions should be asked on the talk page of the appropriate subject, and we have enough people reading the changes in the wiki that you should be answered. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:21, 11 December 2008 (EST)

:This could be a good replacement for the currently (and for a good while now) unused [[Current_events]] page, perhaps changing it's title to something more appropriate, while maintaining it's presence as a 'Main Navigation Link'. That's my two dwarfbucks on ideas for a replacement for that page anyways. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 00:18, 30 December 2008 (EST)

::IMO, 95% of questions are asked on the appropriate talk page and 80% of the remaining could have been. I don't think that we need a "Gameplay Questions" area, since we've got a forum for that, like Maximus stated. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:25, 31 December 2008 (EST)

☼ ☼!!!!! I personally think it needs a sandbox page, where new, or even experienced who wnat to try a new thing, users can test stuff and see how to do things like upload images, or what the many edit buttons do.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 01:23, 30 December 2008 (EST)☼ ☼

:Typically, any page under your username (like [[Special:Mypage/blah]]) is an appropriate sandbox page, for use when you need to disturb the wiki for more than a minute while getting some unusual formatting to work. When your code is normal, you can just use the preview button... --[[User:Savok|Savok]], a bit puzzled at 10:25, 31 December 2008 (EST)

== Latest Version ==
The latest version is 40d9. Is there a reason we're not linking to it yet? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 17:55, 31 January 2009 (EST)

:Cause it's a beta of a beta. AKA it's unstable and not even a real version yet, more of a subversion. If that. It's cloudware - it exists but it's not very stable. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:07, 31 January 2009 (EST)

:The latest version [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ here] is 40d. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 20:28, 31 January 2009 (EST)

== Random Blank Pages ==

Savok notified me yesterday of a DB error appearing when editing pages. Since I fixed that, the website seems to show blank pages at random. I don't know if it's related to yesterday's problem or if it's an issue with my host. I will keep you all posted as soon as I have more information.
Don't ask me about offline versions of the wiki, I do not have the bandwidth to provide ~100MB downloads for everybody (if someone else wants to host one though, go ahead.)
Sorry about the troubles.
Edit: I've been getting DB errors while trying to edit that page, fuck. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 21:46, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

:Ok, the DB seems to be repaired and the space issue should be fixed. Let me know if anybody keeps getting the blank pages. If it still happens, I'll have to reload the wiki from an old backup. Ugh. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 22:59, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

::I once had this problem with one of the wiki I'm "administering", it was a caching issue. I just had to clear the cache folder and it was ok again. YMMV. --[[User:Karl|Karl]] 00:20, 11 March 2009 (EDT)

:::Currently, this problem is occurring for all diff pages I view. I haven't noticed it elsewhere. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 01:33, 11 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Never mind that. It seems random now. For example, I can't look at [[Talk:Main Page]] but I can view the latest diff. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 01:34, 11 March 2009 (EDT)

:::I've cleared the cache, same problem. It looks like a typical cache problem but I don't think it is. I'm pulling my hair out. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 09:15, 11 March 2009 (EDT)
:::: Do you own the server ? White page can be PHP dying from something (lack of space, server overloading?). You could check the logs maybe.

Mediawiki has been upgraded from 1.10 to 1.14. That seems to have fixed the problem. I hope so. Bonus: All you people asking me to upgrade, your wishes have been answered! --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 14:41, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

MySQL seems to be erroring out displaying pages like [[Talk:Tomb]]. The source is there, it's just dying somewhere in the rendering. [[User:Sproingie|Sproingie]] 21:31, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
:Ah thanks, I'll look into it. The previous wiki version used LATIN-1 and the current one UTF-8 so I was expecting such breakage. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 23:16, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

The [[Template:CreatureInfo]] appears to be hosed as well, though I'm not enough of a code junkie to figure out where and fix it. Appears to have happened in just last few days, with no apparent edit changes to cause it. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 02:58, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Advanced world generation

2009-01-24T07:20:35Z

RedKing:

Minimum Volcanism/Maximum Volcanism
From what I have found out so far I can say Igneous extrusive layer are only found in areas with a volcanism higher than 90. Volcanoes are only placed on tiles with a volcanism of 100.

Minimum Volcano Number
Places volcanoes on tiles with a volcanism of 100, if there are not enough tiles the world is rejected.

Does that imply, that if I set max volcanism to 99 and min volcano number to 50 it'll never accept the world?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:42, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

yes, in the tests i did, setting max volcanism to 99 and min volcano to 1 caused infinite rejects. [[User:Killy|Killy]] 17:48, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

Volcanism seems to impact stone types. High minimum volcanism and you won't get sedimentary or metamorphic layers, just lots of igneous rock.

I don't think magma pipes are exclusive to volcanism-100 tiles; i've had pipes come up through flux, albiet rarely.
[[User:Calenth|Calenth]]

===Cookbook===
That thread is nice and all, but it seems more for works in progress. We should have a wiki page for the tried-and-true worldgen recipes, ones that have been tested thoroughly and are complete. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 07:17, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

===X/Y Variance?===
I've been experimenting with the X- and Y-variance values to try and get a better handle on them. Anybody already gone through and figured this out before I waste my time? :) Especially since it seems there's a certain procedural order I'll need to untangle (elevation modifies temperature, both modify rainfall, etc.) [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 02:20, 24 January 2009 (EST)

User:RedKing

2009-01-22T07:26:41Z

RedKing: Adding the narrative of Throwershoots

Decided to use this page to chronicle my latest attempt, from the standpoint of the expedition leader. Pretty interesting backstory to it: I wanted a fort that was actively at war with one of the major civs, just because I typically wind up in Calm biomes with no enemies other than the occasional goblin thief, and there's no sense of urgency to the game. As you'll see, I got way more than I more bargained for. Maps available at [http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-4398 DF Map Archive].

The civilization, "The Outrageous Axe" had actually been conquered by elves in 102 and played no more part in history after that till the game's start in 200. Didn't fully realize that until I had started the game, so I had to start figuring out a good storyline for it all. Hope you like it.

== "Throwershoots" ==

History of Arroskeskal, "Throwershoots", founded 200 AC

by Morul Cogstigaz

It has been a long and harrowing journey, but by Lir, we have finally arrived. Our expedition set out months ago from the refugee camp to this place, an isolated peak rising above the Wounded Hills. Smoke pours forth from the peak in erratic gouts, indicating the presence of blessed magma. This peak would have been delved long ago by our forefathers, but it lies deep within Elven territory. For ages, the treelovers have harried our people, driving them further and further into the safety of our mines. When at last the great halls fell and King Vucar was slain in 102, our people scattered to the small places of the earth. We hid in caves and crevices, desperate to keep our people alive. When our philosopher learned of this place a few years ago, the oldest and wisest among us decided that a final reckoning must be had. We would attempt to delve a new Mountainhome, right under the noses of the cursed leafmongers. We would re-establish The Outrageous Axe among the proud peoples of this land, or fall in glorious battle and join our forefathers. Either way, they will be made proud.

Of our initial force, many have fallen to Elven trickery and ambushes. Only seven of us reached the blessed peak alive: 

Proud Oddom, the miner 
quiet Reg, the carpenter 
young Eshtan, our woodsdwarf 
troubled Domas, a crafter 
calm Lokum, a fisher 
happy Rigoth, a worker of flesh and hide 
and myself, a humble builder. 

Almost all of our meager supplies were lost, save but one wagonload of food and drink, a small bag of seeds, and a trusty anvil. At the last, it was decided that our fighting dwarves would make a feint away from the peak, drawing the eyes of the elves away for a time. It means we will be without guards, but it will hopefully give us enough time to prepare our defenses against Elven raids when they inevitably find us. On our arrival however, I fear that this may have been a mistake. A great gash scars the northeastern slope of the mountain, and from this uncomfortable proximity, we can see swarms of ratmen and troglodytes infesting its walls. An open caldera lies in the western slope, and a few fire imps have been drawn to it. We have found a small grassy glen nestled high in the northern slope. The rock climbs all around us, hiding us from prying eyes. Sheer walls south and west shield us from attack. The chasm covers our northern and eastern flanks. With time, we can turn this natural canyon into a mighty fortress. It begins.

'''Spring 200 report:'''

Fortune favors us, as the glen contains a small pond which yields some much-needed turtle. Lokum and Rigoth busy themselves laying in extra provisions. Eshtan immediately sets to work felling every tree in the glen, despite Domas' childish fears that the Elves hear every tree that falls. Lacking gems to work with, I put her mind off the trees by handing her an extra pick and reminding her that every dwarf is a miner at heart. She assists Oddom in widening the narrow crevice at the southern end of the glen. This area looks most defensible. A slight hillock (which we have dubbed "The Island") divides the glen into a north chamber and a south chamber. We will hide ourselves in the heart of the mountain and cut away at the rolling slopes surrounding us, making them too sheer for the elves to slink down. No, if they come at us, it will be from the one route we leave standing, and it will be a most rude welcoming they will receive. In addition to the ratmen and troglodytes, the warming weather seems to have brought a horde of naked mole dogs to the surface as well, and we have seen the markings and webs of a giant cave spider. Perhaps the elves will be the least of our worries.

'''Summer 200 report:'''

The summer heat has dried up our pond. Lokum began venturing further and further in search of good fishing grounds, but I forbade him from any further expeditions after he caught sight of a giant spider striking down a small herd of wild horses in the blink of an eye, just a scant few hundred yards away. Needing an alternate food source, I put him to work planting our meager seeds in a small farming chamber in the soft peat of the northern slope. We have delved a relatively comfortable outpost into the safety of the mountain, with a proper entry hall and the eastern wing devoted to agriculture, our most immediate need. When time permits, I intend to expand the southern wing into a Crafting Guild and the western wing into a Smithing Guild. Domas has begun shaping small baubles of turtle shell and rock, in the event that sympathetic humans visit our encampment. Our food supply is dwindling faster than I would like, and I can only pray that some of our escorts survived to tell the others of our location.

'''Autumn 200 report:'''

Lir be praised. Just as we had begun to start sizing up the dogs for which had the most meat on them, a follow-on expedition managed to evade the elven patrols and reach our outpost, bringing much-needed meat and a little beer. Most of the meat was the coarser type of fare—horse and dog—but it’ll taste as sweet as dwarven milk after the prospect of nothing but turtle and dog for months. Eshtan claims to know several recipes that’ll mask the dog flavor. Given the quantity of meat and plump helmets we have now, we should be able to make it through the winter and most of spring. We bade our kin a tearful farewell and set back to our tasks with renewed vigor, mindful that the hopes of all our people rest on us. When word reaches our camps that we still live and that our picks have taken root to the mountain, the bravest will make their way to join us, swelling our ranks.

With the immediate needs of food and drink met, we’ve begun expanding the southern wing into a Crafting Guild. When not busy with the day-to-day management of our group, I’ve laid up a healthy store of building stone. When winter comes, I intend to look to our defenses. The elves are likely to send their hunting parties out with the spring thaw, and I do not wish to be caught unprepared.

'''13th Timber, 200:'''

A great tragedy has occurred. About a month after our brethren returned home, we spotted eight of our kin trudging wearily up the southern slopes of the mountain. Just as they neared the summit, it attacked. The giant cave spider we had seen lurking in the distance sprang from its hiding place and slaughtered our kin before our horrified eyes, leaping and landing on one dwarf after another, crushing its victims into the ground. For this, we have named the beast Weightfell. Three of our kin managed to flee the carnage and find safety in our halls: Feb, an engraver; Obok, a brave soul but one with little skill except in whittling; and Zulban, a fishery worker. We have mournfully welcomed them into our midst and put them to work doing basic tasks until we can figure out how best to utilize their talents. It is from them that we have gained even more sorrowful news. One of the slain dwarves was a skilled weaponsmith, eager to forge blades to be drenched in elven blood. There are precious few blademakers left among our people, and to lose one in such an untimely fashion is a great tragedy indeed. With such a beast lurking so near our halls, our defenses become our top priority.

We made two attempts to recover what remained of the dead, but each time we heard the skittering of giant legs on stone and ran. I have forbidden any further attempts to recover the remains of *any* who perish on the mountainside. The others are angry with me. It is not our way to leave the dead unburied, to rot in the sun like a common animal. But the fate of our people is more important than traditions. We will build a Hall of Spirits, and there make cairns to honor the fallen, even though they must lie empty for now. Hopefully this will ease the pain of their spirits, and ours.

'''Winter 200 report:'''

A relatively uneventful season, for which we are thankful. I have proceeded to construct a guardpost on the “Island” which can be accessed only through a long tunnel connecting it to the main hold. It has been outfitted with a small set of cellars which will contain provisions and additional ammunition. The surface level will be completely inaccessible from the outside and will contain a small dining room and a barracks suitable for a squad of six marksdwarves. The second level will be a fortified firing platform. A single stair will provide access to all levels, and lockable hatches will be fitted to each, allowing for the facility to be completely compartmentalized. If the enemy comes to our gates, we will be able to rain death upon them while maintaining a secure link to our soldiers. The access tunnel will be trapped in the unlikely event that the post is breached. I have begun Zulban on a training regimen. He is a sad sight, clad in nothing more than turtle shells and wielding a wooden crossbow and bolts better fit for a child’s playthings. But at least it’s something.

One mildly amusing occurrence to note: a kobold came slinking about in the dead of winter, looking to steal from the unfortunate corpses of our kin. Apparently the local tribe of troglodytes considers the summit of the mountain a sacred site (perhaps they worship the great spider?) and promptly beat the intruder into a bloody pulp. At least that’s one less annoyance to have to worry about.

40d:Ice

2009-01-19T07:38:08Z

RedKing: added notes about dangers of spring thaws

'''Ice''' is [[water]] that has been frozen by cold seasons. Any water that is [[above ground]] will freeze during the cold time, but it will stay wet if it is on [[subterranean]] tiles.

A water tile with 1 depth will freeze to create ice floor. A tile of water deeper than 1 will freeze into an '''ice wall''', creating an '''ice floor''' one [[Z-Axis]] above it. The ice wall will be the same no matter how deep the water is. As there is no thin ice, the floor can be walked on freely. Ice walls can be [[mine]]d like any other natural wall. The ice wall will melt into water of depth 7 [http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Talk:Water] when warmer temperatures arrive, which can keep ponds full if rain only fills them up to 2/7. An ice floor will also melt, leaving 1 water if it was smoothed or engraved.

Ice can be mined out, creating [[Ice#Ice as a stone|stones]] of ice that melt into thin air come spring. This makes winter an ideal time to get rid of any [[lake]]s that are in the way.

Entire water supplies can become completely frozen upon winter in colder areas. This can depopulate an entire fortress with rapidity in the first winter if they're unprepared. To counter this, make a [[cistern]] inside beforehand or brew enough [[alcohol]].

== Ice as a stone ==

Ice appears as a light blue stone which can be found by mining through an ice wall. Ice can be used to build [[construction]]s and [[workshops]]. Ice boulders and objects made of ice will melt when exposed to warmer temperatures (such as inside a fortress), giving it rather limited use. Nevertheless, workshops made of ice have a certain novelty to them, and it's even possible to make [[furnace]]s out of ice, as counter-intuitive as that sounds.

The games refers to ice boulders as "water." It doesn't appear in any stockpile options or the manager, but it does appear under the "stones" section of the [[Stocks]] menu.

== Icy constructions ==

All constructions are entirely indestructible. Entire fortresses can be built of ice in temperate climates equally impervious to catapults, the summer sun, or a thousand tons of boiling lava. If constructions of ice are dismantled during the warm season, they will melt into thin air.

== Ice as hazard ==

Watch out when digging through ice into ([[subterranean]]) unfrozen water resorts. The space cleared by the miner will freeze solid again instantly, encasing the advancing miner into a wall of ice. This means not only the loss of a valuable [[dwarf]], but also of his now inaccessible equipment.

Additionally, surface ponds which go through a freeze/thaw cycle (on Temperate and Cold maps) can be hazardous, as your dwarves will treat the ice as a normal surface when moving about. Spring thaws happen suddenly and without warning, and dwarves in the midst of crossing a frozen pond will find themselves suddenly swimming in depth 7 water. You can avoid this by marking restricted traffic zones over ponds in high traffic areas.

== Melting outdoor ice ==

It can be very important to be able to extract water from permanently-frozen ice (for instance on cold northern maps) in order to give water to the wounded. This can be done with [[magma]]. Dig out a tunnel one z-level below the ice sheet and fill it with magma. The ice on the above z-level will melt. You can see this happening here: http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-153-meltingwateronglacier

If you would like to transport magma to heat a frozen [[brook]] or other such feature that is very far away from the magma pipe, try to use a magma duct that is nearly as wide as the area you intend to fill. Otherwise, magma will tend to evaporate as it disperses from a narrow duct to a wider area.

{{Water FAQ}}
[[Category:Materials]]
[[Category:Map_tiles]]

40d Talk:Tallow

2009-01-10T22:26:40Z

RedKing:

Is it editable? I think my dwarves have cooked it, but can it be eaten raw? [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 14:04, 18 November 2007 (EST)

:I don't think it's edible raw. I've seen dwarves cook it all the time, but never just chow down on it. Not that I can blame them; it'd be like eating raw Crisco. --[[User:Brent Not Broken|Brent Not Broken]] 17:38, 18 November 2007 (EST)

::Obviously, your dwarves aren't Southern. I had a rather sizable stockpile of fat that built up, and when I finally noticed it, I wound up with six or seven different types of tallow. Which my cooks promptly made into biscuits consisting of nothing but tallow. Mmmm...just like my great aunt used to make. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 17:26, 10 January 2009 (EST)

Can tallow rot? how fast? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 19:19, 23 February 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Werewolf

2008-10-30T18:51:46Z

RedKing: /* Infected meat? */

I've noticed a LOT of variability in how dangerous these things are. Sometimes my woodcutters will demolish them in one hit, other times I'll get torn to pieces instead. They universally butcher dogs from what I can tell. Anybody else have any experience with them? --Gotthard 13:04, 18 December 2007 (EST)

: First Werewolf was taken down by 3 unskilled dwarves. Killed a dog with one attack, and wounded a dwarf (Eye gone, Brain yellow) before giving in. The second werewolf, well, I had two skilled wrestlers to attack him. However, one of them was constantly going home (Rest, Fill Waterskin, ...), so effectively I attacked it with one wrestler, which was unsuccessful, because the bitch regenerated too fast. At some point, it got the advantage and took him down.--[[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 20:40 17 March 2008 (UTC+1)

== Kobold bulb around neck or risk becoming werewolf ==

Is this true?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 01:53, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
:Personally, I think it is just vandalism. At least I cannot confirm this, however, I had no kobold bulbs to check if my victim tried to put them on. [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 04:05, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
::I haven't experienced dwarves turning to werewolves. I got an immigrant wave and there was a werewolf nearby, it killed a few and the rest didn't turn to werewolves although I didn't have any kobold bulbs. Also I think it is impossible to hang vegetables around the neck. At least it isn't possible in adventure mode so I don't think it is in fort mode. So I think it is a joke. Almost funny, but confusing. --[[User:LASD|LASD]] 14:12, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
:::This can easily be verified in the code. And there's no such thing in the Werewolf game object. Its a fake. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Booken|Booken]]

==Infected meat?==
I just started a new fort and before I knew what was what all my dogs were struck down by a werewolf. It ran off after my mule and I quickly hauled the dog corpeses inside. But my dwarves refuse to butcher them, claiming they need unrotten butcherable corpse. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 00:35, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

:Spooky. [[User:Midna|Midna]] 01:34, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

:Makes sense to me. Dogs (and other domesticated animals like cats, cows, camels, etc.) can't be butchered after they're already dead. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 14:51, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Broker skills

2008-03-05T04:47:39Z

RedKing:

:I combined these skills since all the entries are the same. [[User:Jikor|Jikor]] 08:02, 8 November 2007 (EST)

It is gained by:
* Proposing an unsuccessful trade at the depot.

:This seem to controdict the earlier statement that this is a way that the skills are '''not''' gained. Is this skill an exception or what? I think we should make this article clearer. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 09:25, 8 November 2007 (EST)

::In my first fort I tried to buy out the dwarven caravan with not enough goods, after enough attempts (removing one item each time), the caravan took offence and left. My broker gained the comedian skill after that. So unsuccessful trades do gain skills (not sure if its a random skill or depends how you offended the caravan), anyway the assertion in this article appears to be wrong. [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]]

:::I just copied the text from the previous articles on the subject I haven't really tested these yet. [[User:Jikor|Jikor]] 06:09, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::::I am sure that the 'appraiser' skill is trained before the actual trade. My broker went to sleep at the unlucky moment and I allowed anyone to trade with 6-wagon human caravan. The dwarf that came to trade wasn't even dabbling at appraising and when I pressed 'trade' at the depot - he saw all the items' prices. So I actually cancelled trade that time and looked at the dwarf again - he was now competent appraiser. I guess that some experience in appraising skill (maybe 1?) is gained when a dwarf determines the price of each single merchant item for the first time. Later I bought out that whole caravan and the dwarf became dabbling in a handful of other skills. I guess that each successfull and each rejected trade attempt gives some amount(10?, 20?, 50?) in their corresponding 2 partially overlapping sets of social skills. Some experiments can be conducted to determine the exact amounts of skill gains.--[[User:Another|Another]] 07:55, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:::::I can confirm this. Appraiser goes up just from opening the trading menu, before you've even started putting together an offer. As a result it goes up much faster than any of the other skills, especially once the big caravans start rolling in.

Judge of Intent seems to go up on just about every attempted trade, even failed attempts. It seems to go up slightly faster than most of the other skills, which seem to be applied somewhat randomly, based off your broker's personality and possibly other factors (personalities of the foreign merchants?) For instance, my broker has been gaining Persuader, Negotiator, and Intimidator, with ocassional smaller gains in Comedian. [[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 20:21, 10 November 2007 (EST)

Do any of the broker skills actually do anything past novice? I had thought appraiser (or maybe another one) gave a bonus to the value of your goods but I'm not seeing it anymore - probably I had been trading something they asked for without realizing it. Unless you order something heavy (like stone blocks or metal bars) caravans almost always seem to bring enough to enable novice appraiser so you can see the prices, and seeing as the mood thing doesn't really matter much there does not seem to be a lot of point in using a dedicated broker at all. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 23:51, 11 November 2007 (EST)
:I don't know if appraiser or judge of intent do anything once past novice. Getting the other skills up a couple ranks does make it a lot easier to get full value on your trades (the traders are much less likely to reject deals or make counter-offers asking for more stuff), so if you're stingy about what you trade away you might as well have a dedicated broker. Even then there seems to be a definite point of diminishing returns, though, as my broker only has 2-4 ranks in four skills and he almost always gets the traders to accept on profit margins of 1-5% or less. Which is probably a good considering their slow rate of advancement, since he started with 5 ranks in negotiation skills and has taken 6 years of dedicated brokering to get the other ranks.[[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 23:59, 11 November 2007 (EST)
::I noticed that, with a low skill, the trader would often ask for more of what you are presenting him before he agrees to trade. Which is probably because I always try to give them the same kind of stone stuff, mainly stone crafts, and the trader look for profit ''and'' diversity. At a time, in a map in which I had no wood and was bent on trying to purchase bins and barrels only to have them in my inventory 'cause I wasn't able to start my metal industry yet, the merchant was also bent in asking for the bins of my trade goods also, along with a few other items I would have rather prefered keeping in stock but didn't mind that much. I had to raise his profit for him to be willing to oversee those demands. In my current fortress, the highest starting skill I gave to my leader was judge of intent. I'll see later on if it make a difference in the haggling process. I am guessing that, with a high enough skill level, my leader will be the one asking for more stuff instead of the inverse. Or maybe it's also related to another talk skill... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 13:14, 12 November 2007 (EST)

Does it make sense for the "Liar' skill to redirect to the broker skills page? From what I can tell the liar skill isn't trained by trading, or any current noble function.
:I'm pretty sure that it is, but your broker's skill usage is determined by their personality. i.e. if you put someone who is dishonest towards others in charge of trading, then they'll use the Liar skill.[[User:Rpb|Rpb]] 11:38, 16 November 2007 (EST)

== Effect of skills ==

This article says how dwarves learn, but not what the skills *do*. Problem is, I was looking it up because I didn't know, so I can't fill in that info. [[User:Bhudson|Bhudson]] 21:18, 2 February 2008 (EST)

== Skill gain from idle chatter ==

It appears that dwarves also gain most of the broker skills (albeit slowly) from time spent in idle conversation with each other. Leave a few dwarfs sitting around the dining room with no job for a bit, and you'll see that they've gained Dabbling in most of these. While it's not enough to really be useful for trade, the extra few XP often are enough to give a new dwarf a stat gain. Has anyone tested this to see how the XP gain is accrued? Part of the problem is that without some dissection of the code as it's running, it's hard to tell how long a single "conversation" lasts. [[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 23:47, 4 March 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Aluminum

2007-12-28T23:27:31Z

RedKing:

I had a mood produce greaves as an artifact from aluminum. Any idea if it can be used as armor, and what the modifier for the armor protection would be if it's usable? --Gotthard 13:46, 3 December 2007 (EST)
:It would be 50%, as per the [[armor]] article. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:52, 3 December 2007 (EST)
:However, I think the quality modifier from it being an artifact might make up for that. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:54, 3 December 2007 (EST)

How does it's weight compare with adamantium? [[User:Mindsnap|Mindsnap]] 21:48, 5 December 2007 (EST)
:Weight in the new version is based on material density. Aluminum is extremely light but adamantine is over ten times lighter than aluminum. Still, given the amount of it you can accumulate on magma vent maps, I usually wind up making a lot of aluminum bins and barrels to take advantage of the low weight factor. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 18:27, 28 December 2007 (EST)

40d:Migrant

2007-12-02T22:10:44Z

RedKing: confirming kobolds and adding info about pop merge

A '''migrant''' is a member of a wave of [[immigration]].

== Migrants in Fortress Mode ==
Migrants will enter at the edge of the map, heralded by an announcement. They will travel single file from this one location until the last one has come. You must have a meeting area designated to accept the dwarves.

Migrants come with (no adjective) level of a single [[skill]] or novice level of three skills from a single profession. Migrants will sometimes bring their spouses, children, and even their pet animals. Spouses may come as unskilled peasants.

=== Immigration Triggers ===

Migrants appear in waves when the total wealth of the fortress (view by hitting 'Z') reaches these milestones:

* 5,000
* 10,000
* 100,000
* 140,000
* 165,000 (?)

== Migrants in Adventure Mode ==
Roving bands of migrants may be found on the world map. These migrants can be linked to any of the major civilizations found on the world. This includes goblins and kobolds. Such bands will consist of non-specialized adults and children.

== Migration Effects on the World ==

It is possible for migration to change the population levels of settlements on the map over time, and to cause factions of a civilization to merge. This can be discovered through talking to individuals in Adventurer mode, and will subsequently show up in Legends mode.

40d:Lignite

2007-11-16T04:46:18Z

RedKing: incorrect - coking lignite does not require sand

{{Stone|name=Lignite|tile=*|color=#888
|uses =
* 2 [[coke]] at [[smelter]]
|location =
* [[Sedimentary layer]]s
* Found as veins
|properties =
* Can [[ignite]]
* [[Economic stone]]
* [[Material value]] 1}}

One of the two mineral sources of [[Fuel|fuel]]. Produces 2 coke for each unit of coal processed at the [[Smelter|smelter]]. However, this processing consumes a unit of [[Fuel|fuel]]. This leaves a net production of 1 [[Fuel|fuel]].

[[Category:Stone]]
[[Category:Economic Stone]]
[[Category:Sedimentary Stone Layers]]

40d Talk:Cage

2007-11-09T18:19:54Z

RedKing:

How do you put more than one animal in a cage? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 11:41, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:Once you hit (A)ssign, you should have a list of all tame animals in your fort. From here you can toggle whether or not a given animal is assigned to that cage by hitting Enter. You can do this for a number of creatures at once. Creatures already assigned to a cage or chain will have [A] out to the right of their listing. IIRC, there is a limit on the number of critters in a cage, but it's pretty high. One nice benefit is that if you put a male and female of the same species in a cage together, they can still breed.--[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 12:25, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::Um...
::(A)ssign? Uh, I don't see that. (a) is announcements, and (A) does nothing. I can see a list of animals with both (u) and (z)->Animals, but they only let me assign to owners, slaughter, etc. Do I need a specific noble? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 12:41, 9 November 2007 (EST)
::Ah, hold on. I appear to have only caught untamable creatures (yay... I guess). Does (A)ssign only work if I have caged, tame creatures? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 12:45, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:::Cage options menu, I think {{k|q}} or {{k|t}}. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 12:48, 9 November 2007 (EST)
::::Wow, I'm being really awkward here. Sorry. {{k|q}} and {{k|t}} both give me options about the animal stockpile the cages are sitting on, or the ground below that. [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 12:55, 9 November 2007 (EST)
:::::Ahh, now I see the problem. You have to {{k|b}}uild the cage first, which moves it from the stockpile to whatever location you specify, then you can assign animals to it. Animal stockpiles just serve as collection points for your trappers to dump off their catch, or for new animals bought from caravans.--[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 13:19, 9 November 2007 (EST)

40d Talk:Cage

2007-11-09T18:19:40Z

RedKing:

40d Talk:Cage

2007-11-09T17:25:43Z

RedKing:

40d Talk:Magma

2007-11-09T09:26:19Z

RedKing:

Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the [[Magma smelter]] article, which state that using [[Fire-safe materials]] is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_rocks#Naming this article] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock#Mineralogical_classification this site] list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?
:It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.
::So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)

On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--[[User:SL|SL]] 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)
::I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this "cap", I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)

== Tempurature ==

Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

40d:Magma

2007-11-09T09:20:10Z

RedKing: edited to reflect glacial magma vents

Magma serves as an energy source, powering [[magma furnace]]s and [[magma smelter]]s. It is extremely dangerous.

== Finding magma ==

While in previous versions of Dwarf Fortress, every map was guaranteed to have magma, since v0.27.169.32a magma is now a feature of terrain and may or may not be present.

Magma that reaches all the way to the surface is visible on the "local" screen in the starting location chooser. It is represented as a red ≈ mark (a double tilde) - essentially it looks like red water. Note that red ≈ marks in the "region" screen mean something different entirely. However, it IS actually possible for a volcano that shows up on the "local" and region screen in the starting location chooser to be entirely underground - Although you could see it in the starting location chooser, it would not be visible from the surface once your dwarves have arrived at the fort's site.

While picking a starting location, the easiest place to look for magma is on or near a [[volcano]] (a red ^ mark in the "region" screen). There are often volcanic islands (easy to find, since they are the sole land in the middle of oceans), but since sea travel is not yet implemented. trade with other races may not be possible on such islands. Instead, find a volcano on land, and (optionally) start looking for a vent in nearby squares. "Nearby squares" can mean anything from literally on top of the volcano, to adjacent, to quite a long distance away indeed. The placement of magma seems to be related to the distance from volcanoes, but is still essentially random.

Much harder than simply finding a magma vent is finding a magma vent that is also near suitable terrain for building. Depending on your requirements - you may be looking for a source of running water, or a mountain for minerals, or a healthy tree population, or even all three - suitable building sites can be extremely scarce.

Since volcanos show up on the region finder, and magma vents do not, you may find it easier to simply check all volcanos on a map for suitability, and generate a new world if none are suitable, rather than scouring tile after tile for magma vents.

If you're willing to search exhaustively, you might want to consider finding magma vents that are not near volcanoes at all. Very occasionally, magma will be visible in the middle of forests, plains, or other terrain nowhere near a volcano or even mountains. There is no way to spot these on the region map, so the only way to identify them is to scroll past hundreds of local maps while keeping an eye out for the distinctive red ≈ symbol.

You can also occasionally find magma that does not extend all the way to the surface, and therefore is not visible on the local map. It is almost impossible to find without cheating via one of the [[utilities]] like "reveal.exe", since unlike proper magma vents these smaller deposits will only be on a few levels, and must be almost literally mined into to see (you will get a warning about "warm stone" before you actually breach the deposit). Presumably, small magma deposits are also most common near volcanoes.

== Using magma ==

On a map with a magma vent, the magma will be clearly visible from every level ground and below, unless the map is in a Freezing area. In Freezing areas, the top few levels of the vent will have cooled to form an obsidian "cap". This should still be readily recognizable however, as it will comprise a circular area. The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores.

The vent has a similar, circular shape on each level. However, it is not identical from one level to the next; some levels will have a larger or somewhat misshapen circle of magma.

The primary use for magma is to power magma smelters and forges. (There are other uses, including defense and possibly even garbage disposal.) To build forges, etc on magma, at least one of the external eight squares must be above a square of magma.

This can be done most easily by simply building on ground level. The magma is visible from ground level but is actually contained one level below ground level, just like any ground-level water source.

To build underground, you will need to dig at least one tile of a [[channel]] above the location you wish to build the smelter or forge. Underneath this channel there must be magma, either directly from the vent or channeled from the vent. Use channels to tap into the magma on the level below safely (this is easier if there is more magma on the lower level than the level you wish to build on. Actually tapping into magma directly, on the same level, instead of using channels, is likely to result in the death of your miner.

To build far away from the magma vent, you may need some kind of floodgate system, or even a series of pumps to move the magma from one region to another. (An extremely long, completely uncontrolled channel is possible, but not recommended.) Generally speaking, everything that comes directly in contact with magma must be made of steel, so you will need some way of preparing steel even before your final system of magma smelters and forges is ready.

It is also important to note that at this time Toady has stated that magma doesn't replenish.[http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001504] Therefore depending on the amount of magma available it may be inadvisable to attempt to move it across too great a distance or use it in any form of defense that consumes it in the process e.g. steam.

== Temperature settings ==

Magma is almost harmless if temperature is disabled in the Dwarf Fortress init file. It can still trap and suffocate or simply starve your dwarves in some situations. It will not melt floodgates, etc. constructed of non-magma-proof materials.

== Magma reactions ==

Water: If magma happens to contact water it produces some steam and obsidian. This means there is no chance of using a prolonged contact between the two to create a steam trap.

40d:Kennel

2007-11-09T07:48:03Z

RedKing: removing unfounded claim about trainable wild animals -- not supported by the /raw files

A '''Kennel''' is like a larger [[workshop]] for an [[animal trainer]]. The animal trainer uses it to tame wild [[creatures|animals]] not already domesticated, such as wolves and tigers you have [[trap]]ped. Similarly the Kennel can be used to tame small [[vermin]] caught in [[animal trap]]s, so that dwarves may adopt them. It also serves to train tamed animals into [[hunting]] and war animals (usually dogs).

Hunting animals can be assigned to follow a hunter and assist in the hunting process. They are faster and more agile than a regular tamed animal, but not as strong as a war animal.

A war animal is a powerful fighter. War dogs make excellent companions when starting a fortress, when you can't spare many dwarves for fighting.
{{Buildings}}

40d Talk:Kennel

2007-11-09T07:47:09Z

RedKing: New page: == New trainable animals? == Can anyone confirm that anything other than dogs are trainable in the new version (without modding)? I looked through the raws, and there's still no [TRAINA...

== New trainable animals? ==

Can anyone confirm that anything other than dogs are trainable in the new version (without modding)? I looked through the raws, and there's still no [TRAINABLE] flag on any other critters.

40d Talk:Trade depot

2007-11-04T08:19:19Z

RedKing:

How exactly does the "trader requested at depot" toggle work? Which way is enabled, which way is disabled? And what does it do, even?

Edit: I got to trade with the dwarves by leaving it toggled as "r: Trader requested at depot". It took a litle while for the trade to show up. Anybody figured this out, though?

Edit: Yes, you want to leave it so it's showing the state you want - in this case "Trader requested" not "No trader needed", just like with any other toggled setting. An explanation of what it does is already provided below.

--

Toggling 'Trader Requested at Depot' will queue a job for your trader (designated under [N]obles) to show up at the trade depot. You can check the status of that dwarf at the Trade Depot (it will show their current job in light blue). If you are impatient, you can set the depot to [b] anyone can trade, in which case a dwarf with no job will trade.

I would recommend using a trader with high skill (I believe it is negociation and appraisal) to trade for you, as this will maximise your returns. --Alc 01:11, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

--

I added some more info, please refine as needed. It could use some better detail or a step-by-step path to build and operate a trade depot. [[User:Haddaway|Haddaway]] 20:02, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

== Verification question ==

Given different social skills for the broker, what are the number of allowed failed attempts at trading? --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 01:21, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== -X level depots ==

Has anyone checked what caravans will/will not go up or down? You can check your access with D but I find that both stairs and ramps still flash red, suggesting a caravan cannot go underground, even if the depot shows up as light-blue Accessible. --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 20:16, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

:I've watched wagons move across outside terrain level changes, and out there hills (ramps) flash as red, but the area on the other side (have to change zdepth) flashes green.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 02:14, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

== Trading with elves ==

Exactly what kind of things will elves accept? Obviously no wood items, but what about things like charcoal, pig tail clothing, etc? [[User:Xaque|Xaque]] 22:19, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

== Edited dwarves section ==

I removed the bit about dwarf caravans giving you unlimited attempts to trade, because I had the initial dwarf caravan give me three counteroffers. After trying to tweak the third one and hitting trade, the caravan merchant responded with something like "Your childish games have made me tired. Perhaps next time when I return, you'll be ready to do business." And then proceeded to pack up their stuff and leave.

My trade rep had Novice Liar, Novice Negotiator, Novice Appraisal and Novice Intimidator. And, despite failing on all four trade attempts, he picked up Dabbling skill in Flatterer, Persuader, Judge of Intent, and Comedian. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 03:18, 4 November 2007 (EST)

40d Talk:Trade depot

2007-11-04T08:18:33Z

RedKing: Edited dwarves section

How exactly does the "trader requested at depot" toggle work? Which way is enabled, which way is disabled? And what does it do, even?

Edit: I got to trade with the dwarves by leaving it toggled as "r: Trader requested at depot". It took a litle while for the trade to show up. Anybody figured this out, though?

Edit: Yes, you want to leave it so it's showing the state you want - in this case "Trader requested" not "No trader needed", just like with any other toggled setting. An explanation of what it does is already provided below.

--

Toggling 'Trader Requested at Depot' will queue a job for your trader (designated under [N]obles) to show up at the trade depot. You can check the status of that dwarf at the Trade Depot (it will show their current job in light blue). If you are impatient, you can set the depot to [b] anyone can trade, in which case a dwarf with no job will trade.

I would recommend using a trader with high skill (I believe it is negociation and appraisal) to trade for you, as this will maximise your returns. --Alc 01:11, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

--

I added some more info, please refine as needed. It could use some better detail or a step-by-step path to build and operate a trade depot. [[User:Haddaway|Haddaway]] 20:02, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

== Verification question ==

Given different social skills for the broker, what are the number of allowed failed attempts at trading? --[[User:Shagie|Shagie]] 01:21, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== -X level depots ==

Has anyone checked what caravans will/will not go up or down? You can check your access with D but I find that both stairs and ramps still flash red, suggesting a caravan cannot go underground, even if the depot shows up as light-blue Accessible. --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 20:16, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

:I've watched wagons move across outside terrain level changes, and out there hills (ramps) flash as red, but the area on the other side (have to change zdepth) flashes green.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 02:14, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

== Trading with elves ==

Exactly what kind of things will elves accept? Obviously no wood items, but what about things like charcoal, pig tail clothing, etc? [[User:Xaque|Xaque]] 22:19, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

== Edited dwarves section ==

I removed the bit about dwarf caravans giving you unlimited attempts to trade, because I had the initial dwarf caravan give me three counteroffers. After trying to tweak the third one and hitting trade, the caravan merchant responded with something like "Your childish games have made me tired. Perhaps next time when I return, you'll be ready to do business." And then proceeded to pack up their stuff and leave.

My trade rep had Novice Liar, Novice Negotiator, and Novice Intimidator. And, despite failing on all four trade attempts, he picked up Dabbling skill in Flatterer, Persuader, Judge of Intent, and Comedian. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 03:18, 4 November 2007 (EST)

40d:Trade depot

2007-11-04T08:13:26Z

RedKing: dwarves do not give unlimited trade attempts

Building a trade depot will allow you the opportunity to trade with caravans that arrive at your fortress. Each of the three friendly races will send a caravan once per year, however they will not arrive unless your region is marked as accessible by them. Dwarves will always arrive regardless of location, however. Since trading caravans arrive at random positions on the map edge, it is currently preferable to build the depot as close to the middle of the map as possible. This reduces the chance of the caravan traveling across the whole map then turning around because it is time to leave.

A broker is not required but is preferable for getting better deals. To toggle whether anyone can trade or just the broker is done with {{K|b}}.
{{K|r}}equesting a trader at the trade depot will queue a job on the traders list. A higher level of brokerage will give you greater returns, so if you're dependent on trade it's recommended to keep one dwarf as broker and level up his appraisal skill as high as possible.

== Dwarves ==

The merchant will meet with your liaison and discuss what you would like to buy next year, as well as suggest things to sell. You may buy from the dwarves pretty much anything you could have brought with you during setup, except for pets.

== Humans ==

Human wagons pulled by regular mules will arrive if there is a minimum 3-wide path from your depot to a map edge. You do not need to have a road, but you will need to {{K|d}}esignate {{K|s}}moothing and {{K|t}}ree-cutting along the path. Use {{K|D}} to verify that there is a wagon accessible path to the depot.

Often, on maps that don't have cliffs (and so have ramps between the z-levels usually), a path will exist with no effort.

However, if they don't have a easy route to your trade depot, they may not arrive in time for you to trade, packing his belongings and going away.

== Elves ==

Elves bring you wood and plant items, as well as caged tame pets. However, they will not accept wooden or wood-derived items in exchange.

In addition to the previous restrictions on no dead things, apparently you have a limited number of attempts at a trade they like (my novice broker had three or four) or they'll just pack up and leave. Apparently a pile of stone crafts was not enough to buy all their seeds off of them (message: "I can't let you end up with ALL of that").

Note: Sometimes when you get that message then pressing {{K|t}} again will make the trade regardless.

It is presumed that this happens with other races as well and that how many attempts you get is influenced by your Comedy/Negotiate/Intimidate/Etc. skills of your broker.{{verify}}

Clothing that might otherwise be acceptable to Elves will be rejected it if it has blood on it, for example from a slain enemy.

40d:Butcher

2007-11-04T06:28:18Z

RedKing: assorted parts will be butchered as well as corpses

'''Butchers''' do the dirty job of processing animal corpses and body parts for [[food|meat]], [[fat]], [[skin]] and [[bone]]s at the [[butcher's shop]]. They are also responsible for slaughtering livestock. Higher skill allows them to process corpses faster.

40d Talk:Cave-in

2007-11-04T05:58:43Z

RedKing:

Is this still valid? I recall that only truly disconnected areas cave in these days...

Yeah, this is what I've heard. I'm digging out a bunch of greater than 7x7 rooms now so we'll find out shortly.
--[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 00:26, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:I've dug out some big rooms (10x10 I think is the biggest so far) and not had a cave-in for a season or so. I'm thinking it only does it on disconnects. makes it ALOT easier to plan your fort out. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 00:33, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

::No kidding. What are the chances of accidentally completely disconnecting an area? I think that Toady One is going to continue to tweak the cave-in circumstances, though, so some things that don't cave in now may in later versions. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:56, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

::Sorry, but I don't understand what a disconnected area is. Could you try to explain? [[User:Sinoth|sinoth]] 12:50, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:::A disconnected section doesn't connect to the rest of the map. As far as I know, that means it checks above, below, north, south, east, and west of a block of stone for connecting blocks, and continues checking through them to make sure the section isn't isolated. Toady mentioned something along the lines of it only checking for disconnects around the area you are mining. If the section is isolated, each block of the disconnected section will fall straight down. That's the general idea, I believe, and such disconnects are not easy to create. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 13:12, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

::::I can easily see how to create an isolated support, but how would you create an isolated room? The dwarves would have to get there somehow... Also, wouldn't an isolated room (with nothing on any side of it, including above) be less likely to collapse because there's nothing nearby to collapse into it? --[[User:Bobson|Bobson]] 13:49, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:::::1. Build a box with constructed walls from the ground.
:::::2. Remove the construction connecting it to the ground.
:::::Also, an isolated room, would ''have'' to collapse, unless we've got anti-gravity-field-generators. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 14:59, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

:I've mined out several levels underground. Then I dug channels (carefully) around the edge of the top layer. Once the last channel section was finished... bam! Cave-in. Only, it didn't stop at the first level below. It kept going to the last level dug out, taking with it all the loose debris. If there are any BUILDINGS in the region that collapsed, they will break apart. --[[User:AzureLightning|AzureLightning]] 14:04, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

"Don't pay any attention to the information below this line! It is simply a placeholder!" - Why have it there if doesnt need to be? Take it away and readd when something worthwhile is to be said. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 17:51, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

When building my underground farms with light access I had alot of collapses but once the room was finished they ceased. There 8 by 8 and three floors down with open air access. I think a collapse happens if you have a room greater the 7x7 horizontally and more than 3 vertically. From what I've observed it seems like it only checks for a collapse everytime a square is dug. --[[User:Lucid|Lucid]] 20:57, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

I dug an open pit in a sandy grassland region. The pit was 4x6 and one level below the surface. And yet, somehow I had a cave-in. It was minor, and only knocked my miner out for a few ticks, but I'm still trying to figure out why an open-air pit would register a cave-in. (In addition, nothing actually changed as far as the pit topography.) --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 01:58, 4 November 2007 (EDT)

40d Talk:Chasm

2007-11-03T20:43:09Z

RedKing:

I've had a chasm in a mountainous area near a volcano which was in fact cylindrical, not shaped like a river at all. It was basically a bore of empty space all the way to the bottom-most level, which consisted of the # chasm squares. In that respect, it looked much like a volcano bore but generally a bit smaller. There were variations in width on different levels of it as well. This led to open cave floor around it on some levels where troglodytes, iron men, giant cave swallows, and caveswallowmen frolicked about. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 08:25, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Huh, how about that. They're certainly more interesting than they used to be.--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 14:54, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Interesting. Sounds like a magma vent minus the magma. I have a game going in a grassland a few region squares away from a volcano. When I first started the game, I got a message that part of the cavern had collapsed and it zoomed to the magma vent. The vent itself was as you describe--a roughly cylindrical sinkhole of varying widths that went all the way to the bottom. Only in my case, it was full of magma up to the surface, and at lower depths, fire imps, magma men and fire snakes could be seen (Apparently, magma is transparent.) Maybe the game treats magma vents as localized chasms full of magma? --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 16:43, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

40d:Giant cave spider

2007-11-03T20:32:41Z

RedKing: 'humanoid hybrid' makes it sound as if GCS are half-spider, half-human or something...

These eight-legged beasts are not your ordinary harmless cave spider. (Those were just treats for your cat). Giant cave spiders will make treats of cats, their dwarf pets and the average careless adventurer. Unlike most monsters in the world, these rely on more than just brute force. Using sticky web projectiles, paralyzing venom and powerful jaws, the giant cave spider has multiple methods of incapacitating it's prey before going in for the kill. For this reason it's suggested that you engage them at a distance.

Picture of SECRET FUN STUFF: http://www.deskbreaker.com/drjonez/images/df/giantweb.png

{{Creatures}}
[[Category:Animals]]

40d Talk:Floodgate

2007-11-02T04:52:28Z

RedKing:

... but only '''stone''' and metal will hold back magma.

Is this true? In the last version only steel was strong enough to contain magma. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 15:29, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

: Well, my dolomite floodgates were enough to hold magma. So stone floodgates are capable of holding magma. Dunnoe about wooden ones though. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 15:59, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

:Not true. I used stone floodgates all the time with magma in the last version. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 00:52, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

40d Talk:Stone

2007-11-02T04:43:31Z

RedKing:

I notice that [[Economic stone]] lists economic + metal ores, my edit to the stone page
divides it as the stockpiles do. -- infinity

Is there any kind of stone that isn't mineable? If not, then I don't think that "Mineable Stone" makes sense as a section header. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 13:36, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Good point, I think I was trying to separate that from "soil" and other things that don't leave behind anything ... I shouldn't edit so early in the morning. --[[User:Infinity|Infinity]] 20:45, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Now all we need is graphical representations! [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 16:24, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

What about ICE BLOCKS? those count as stones for some purposes. --[[User:Thehunterunseen|Thehunterunseen]] 19:27, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

Shouldn't raw adamantine be under metal ore as opposed to "other stone"? --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 00:43, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

40d:Billon

2007-10-30T06:41:54Z

RedKing:

Billon is an alloy of equal parts [[silver]] and [[copper]]. Historically, this was used to mint [[coins]] and it can be assumed that the same holds true in DF, although it is as yet unknown if billon coins will be usable as currency or as trade items only.

Two billon bars can be made at a [[smelter]] from 1 chunk of silver ore and 1 of copper ore, or 1 silver bar and 1 copper bar.

40d:Billon

2007-10-30T06:39:03Z

RedKing: New page: Billon is an alloy of equal parts silver and copper. Historically, this was used to mint coins and it can be assumed that the same holds true in DF, although it is as yet unknown if billon...

Billon is an alloy of equal parts silver and copper. Historically, this was used to mint coins and it can be assumed that the same holds true in DF, although it is as yet unknown if billon coins will be usable as currency or as trade items only.

Two billon bars can be made at a smelter from 1 chunk of silver ore and 1 of copper ore, or 1 silver bar and 1 copper bar.