Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.31 Talk:Sparring

2010-11-23T15:44:07Z

SanDiego: /* 31.17 training oddity */ new section

==This isn't funny, guys==
But it is [[Fun]]. How do I get them to use wooden training sword for training and metal swords for everything else? I spent months watching my swordsdwarves beating an ettin with what are essentially sticks, and when I finally get them using metal swords, one trainee sticks one in his sparring partner's stomach and twists it around! I thought they were supposed to be smart enough to switch on their own; I'm feeling pretty dumb that I can't even get them to switch on command. Help? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:21, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

:Pffft, ''you'' feel dumb, I can't even ''get them to spar'' in the current setup :/ Stupid drills and lessons [[User:Greep|Greep]] 01:13, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

:Don't feel dumb, the military is horrendously bugged right now and some people are even having a hard time getting them to pick up something. [[Special:Contributions/24.255.86.193|24.255.86.193]]

::I'm having the problem right now. They picked stuff up fine (more or less), but this current fort, I can't even get hunters to pick up their stuff. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 17:49, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

:Just to annoy you a little bit, my dwarves train fine, level up quite fast, train with steel and bronze weapons and i have yet to see any injury :P I will admit though that the military screen gave me quite a bit of headache at first. --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.9.88|92.202.9.88]] 14:26, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

::For my edification, are they sparring with these metal weapons, or doing individual training? --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 22:56, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

::I'm with Greep; my dwarves don't spar whatsoever. I have the military screen largely figured out, I have my barracks designated for training, another for sleeping, etc. but I only see them standing around in a large group "Waiting for Combat Training" and whatnot. I never see my recruits pushing eachother around with the occasional smear of blood across the wall, like they use to (sparring, basically). Are they supposed to just stand around now and passively gain military skill, or do they move around? If so, '''HOW DO I GET THEM TO SPAR'''?! Much thanks. --[[User:Bronzebeard|Bronzebeard]] 02:58, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

:::To get them to spar, assign the squad a barracks, make an alert for that squad with a schedule that calls for training, and give that squad that alert. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 19:23, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

::::I've done all that. I don't see any sparring, though, unless it's been entirely taken out of the game and replaced with "individual combat drills" and demonstrations. The latter never seem to work because, for whatever reason, the dwarves can't all be there at the same time (unless they do work without the entire squad) BUT I have noticed that one way or another, my dwarves are improving their combat skills by just standing around doing drills and demonstrations. I have to assume that sparring -- dwarves knocking each other around -- has been eliminated from the game. --[[User:Bronzebeard|Bronzebeard]] 19:29, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
::::: My dwarves spar sometimes. Like most of the military jobs in 0.31.03 it seems to be somewhat buggy. All I did to get them to spar originally was to assign them a firing range, a barracks (both designated as training) and set their schedule to 'Train'. Getting them to not put each other in hospital on the other hand... [[User:Bpuk|Bpuk]] 22:38, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::I've just figured out that along with the 'C' and 'H' at the upper left corner of the screen, there is also an 'S' that pertains to sparring announcements (an 'S' I've never seen, mind you), so traditional sparring must, clearly, still be around -- I apologize. However I've, again, yet to see it. --[[Special:Contributions/76.110.216.178|76.110.216.178]] 03:10, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::Don't worry if your dwarves are just standing around attending "Demonstrations" or "Individual Combat Drills". They still gain military skill. In my current fortress, I put a few of my useless dwarves into the military, including one who already had good fighting skills, before I had forged any weapons. By the time I supplied them with battleaxes, the one had taught the others to become competent dodgers. Once I gave them all weapons, they just stood around doing individual drills, but they still gained skill (only novice so far).--[[User:Aegeus|Aegeus]] 01:26, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

:My dwarves pick their weapons and armor as soon as I order them, too bad that they do "sparring" instead of "demonstrations" or "combat drills". Lethal sparring. Sparring with exceptional iron short swords is deadlier than a GCS attack, even with full iron gear.

::For me (in 31.11), my dwarfs "lightly tap" eachother with their weapon while sparring. Even with copper battle axe. No Dwarf was hurt until now.
::: ''The expedition leader hacks the recruit in the upper body with her (copper battle axe) lightly tapping the target.'' --[[Special:Contributions/94.217.127.39|94.217.127.39]] 09:33, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

:I've been wanting to add a little blurb in the training section about training with hammers--there's no training hammer you can build, but you can assign wooden crossbows to hammerdwarves and, without bolts, they'll train hammer, and won't bludgeon each other to death. I've never actually contributed to a wiki before, and don't want to commit a faux pas by improper editing...
::I say go for it. If there is an error in your change someone else can just pitch in and correct it.

=== version 31.12 ===

I would really appreciate a keystroke-by-keystroke explanation of how to set up a training schedule. I'm trying to decipher it on my own right now, and will post when I get a chance, but in the meantime....if you know, please share? [[User:Romeofalling|Romeofalling]] 22:18, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
:I added in some more specific directions in the introduction as well as cleaned up the language a bit. I also added the bit about the danger room. Try my directions and see if you get better results. I have consistently been able to get my squads to train using the past two versions by following those instructions. If they still won't train I will write out a more detailed synopsis.[[User:Furlion|Furlion]] 07:09, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
::Thanks! That was very clear and concise. Would it be possible for you to make similar clarifications about how to integrate Scheduling into these sorts of training routines? In my specific case now that I've managed to train successfully, I'm trying to figure out how to set up 3 two-dwarf squads of melee combatants so that at any given month, one is training, one is on patrol, and the third is working their civilian jobs. [[User:Romeofalling|Romeofalling]] 21:49, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
:::Check my user talk page today or tomorrow. I am going to write up a little tutorial similar to the one found [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Military_interface here]. See if that link gets you anymore help then check my page. Glad my write up helped you get started training!--[[User:Furlion|Furlion]] 07:03, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

== Injuries? ==

Have there actually been any reported sparring injuries in 0.31.12? A single one? Anywhere? I suspect the part of the page that discusses injuries may be out of date, but I don't want to change it prematurely. --[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 16:33, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
:Actually now that you mention it, I was letting my squad train with real weapons and no one has suffered an injury yet. Or at least, I have yet to notice one. I would say that carefully monitoring a full squad of 10 for a whole year of training and seeing if anyone has been injured would be long enough to be considered verified. --[[User:Furlion|Furlion]] 16:18, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
::They are only "lightly tapping" each other with exceptional steel spears and masterwork steel battleaxes now. And doing actual sparring is slow but way faster than "individual combat drill".--[[User:Another|Another]] 14:02, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
::: Oh yeah, I have seen the same, just that my dorfs are training with adamantine axes. At first I was like "SHIT" when my dorfs spar, cause I don't have a armorer yet, but they only tap each other, noone got any injurys yet.--[[User:Niggy|Niggy]] 11:39, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
:::: As the consensus seems to be that dorfs no longer hurt each other, I'm changing the page. [[User:Calite|Calite]] 14:04, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

==Danger Room==
There is currently a {{l|Danger_room|Danger Room}} article so I am going to remove the text and instead put a link the See Also links. --[[User:Furlion|Furlion]] 05:33, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== 31.17 training oddity ==

I do not know, if this is the best place but I noticed this little thing: if you schedule you dwarves to train and order says "minimum 1 dwarf" there will never be ''more than one'' dwarf training at a time. When I changed order to "minimum 3 dwarf" two more dwarves rushed in almost immediately. I will look on Mantis for this.--[[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 15:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Noise

2010-05-21T13:54:53Z

SanDiego: Added basic info

{{AV}}
{{Quality|Tattered}}
[[Workshop]]s produce noise when they are in use which disturbs sleeping dwarves, giving then negative [[thought]]. The noise spreads on all three axes, so building that [[bedroom]] right under your industrial center might not be a good idea.

Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Centralized Discussion

2010-04-25T13:54:37Z

SanDiego:

== Thoughts? ==
Any thoughts on this page? Any potentially useful organizing ideas? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 16:58, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
:I think this is a great idea. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 17:03, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

== Missing discussions? ==
Are there any important discussions I've missed, or anything you'd like to discussion that you'd like a location to discuss? [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 16:58, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
:Will any articles be pruned away or merged? In the jump from 40D to v31 a lot of articles that used to be served well by tables seem to have become their own articles, which really clutters the place up and scatters information all over unfindably. Stones, ores, and gems are the most obvious, they really only need three tables instead of hundreds of articles. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:53, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
::Might I suggest responses go to the just created [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki talk:Article Consolidation|Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Article Consolidation talk page]]. I think this is a big issue worth discussing, and so it deserves to be discussed there. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 21:34, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

== Template madness ==
Okay I was looking at [[DF2010:Native platinum]] and wanted to make the changes but the arrangement of templates make editing the sidebar incredibly complicated even for the fairly good amount of knowledge I have of the wiki.

This really doesn't need to be this complicated. Could someone explain how it works and more importantly why it needs to be so complicated. [[User:Mason11987|Mason]] ([[User talk:Mason11987|T]]-[[Special:Contributions/Mason11987|C]]) 21:12, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

== Magmawiki skin feedback ==
I just decided to try out the new skin. I am using it for ten minutes and I already can't imagine using anything different, it's great!--[[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 13:54, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Tantrum

2010-04-25T13:43:36Z

SanDiego: Added basic info and rating

{{av}}
{{elven}}
When certain dwarf has been [[thought|unhappy]] enough he'll decide it has been enough for him and throw a tantrum. Tantruming dwarves will cancel any job they may be doing at the moment and will follow in general misbehaviour which includes starting fist fights (with the possibility of severely [[injury|injuring]] other dwarves), toppling and destroying buildings or hurting [[pet|pets]]. This is of course [[justice|illegal]] and they will be imprisoned or flogged for their behaviour. But even though they are punished, if their punishment is [[hammerer|more harsh than usual]] their death can cause another wave of tanrums and your dwarves will soon begin a procces known as tantrum spiral.

User talk:SanDiego

2010-04-17T14:36:04Z

SanDiego:

Hi - welcome to the wiki. Someone suggested that you might have just copied/pasted old 40d material into a new page ([[DF2010:Hoary marmot]] - see talk page)- I have no idea if you did or if they're just confused, don't have time to check and don't care if it happened so long as it isn't repeated - but either way, make sure 100% of any material going into new articles has been screened for accuracy w/ the new version - both in your edits, and others'! Readya later. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:19, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:To clarify, the suggestion was not that you had copypasted old material into the new page, but that you had copied the contents of a template instead of merely linking to it. To link to a template, you just need to put ''<nowiki>{{templatename}}</nowiki>'', and the contents of that template will appear in the page in question. Thanks for your contributions! :) --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 06:50, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I actually copied the template into the article, it was confusion on my part as I was unsure of how to use it properly. Thanks for enlightening me--[[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 12:38, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

== Text alignment versus Infoboxes ==

Just so you know, when you put text above an infobox template, the wiki page puts the text above the infobox when complete. Putting the text BELOW the template makes the wiki page put the text BESIDE (and/or below) the infobox. [[User:DeMatt|DeMatt]] 14:01, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks, I'm still quite new to wiki editing and I'm always glad to learn something new.--[[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 14:36, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Magma glass furnace

2010-04-17T13:31:21Z

SanDiego: fixed typing error

{{av}}
Version of [[Glass furnace]] that does not require [[fuel]] to work, it uses [[magma]] instead. Needs to be built from fire safe materials. See [[Glass furnace]] for more info on topic.
{{Furnace|name=Magma glass furnace|key=a|job={{L|Glassmaking}}
|construction=
1 of
* {{L|Stone}}
* {{L|Block}}
|construction_job=
* {{L|Architecture}}
* {{L|Masonry}}
|use=
* {{L|Sand}} {{L|bag}}
* {{L|Pearlash}}
* Raw {{L|rock crystal}}
|production=
* Raw green {{L|glass}}
* Raw clear {{L|glass}}
* Raw crystal {{L|glass}}
* {{L|Vial}}s
* {{L|Trap}} {{L|weapon|weapons}}
* {{L|Window|Windows}}
* {{L|Furniture}}
* {{L|Toy|Toys}}
* {{L|Instrument|Instruments}}
* {{L|Goblet|Goblets}}
* {{L|Block|Blocks}}
}}
{{elven}}
{{Workshops}}

v0.31:Magma glass furnace

2010-04-17T13:29:22Z

SanDiego: added basic info, linked to Glass furnace article

{{av}}
Version of [[Glass furnace]] that does not require [[fuel]] to work, it uses [[magma]] instead. Needs to be built from [[magma-safe]] materials. See [[Glass furnace]] for more info on topic.
{{Furnace|name=Magma glass furnace|key=a|job={{L|Glassmaking}}
|construction=
1 of
* {{L|Stone}}
* {{L|Block}}
|construction_job=
* {{L|Architecture}}
* {{L|Masonry}}
|use=
* {{L|Sand}} {{L|bag}}
* {{L|Pearlash}}
* Raw {{L|rock crystal}}
|production=
* Raw green {{L|glass}}
* Raw clear {{L|glass}}
* Raw crystal {{L|glass}}
* {{L|Vial}}s
* {{L|Trap}} {{L|weapon|weapons}}
* {{L|Window|Windows}}
* {{L|Furniture}}
* {{L|Toy|Toys}}
* {{L|Instrument|Instruments}}
* {{L|Goblet|Goblets}}
* {{L|Block|Blocks}}
}}
{{elven}}
{{Workshops}}

v0.31:Glass furnace

2010-04-17T12:23:36Z

SanDiego: added some basic information

{{av}}
Glass furnance is the keypoint of [[Glass industry]]. All materials are assembled in here and from here the flow continues. Since [[sand]] can be now bought from [[caravan]] you can build one even on a sand-free map.
{{Furnace|name=Glass furnace|key=g|job={{L|Glassmaking}}
|construction=
1 of
* {{L|Stone}}
* {{L|Wood}}
* {{L|Block}}
|construction_job=
* {{L|Architecture}}
* {{L|Masonry}}
|use=
* {{L|Sand}} {{L|bag}}
* {{L|Pearlash}}
* Raw {{L|rock crystal}}
* {{L|Coke}} or {{L|Charcoal}}
|production=
* Raw crystal {{L|glass}}
* Raw clear {{L|glass}}
* Raw green {{L|glass}}
* {{L|Block}}s
* {{L|Vial}}s
* {{L|Toy}}s
* {{L|Instrument}}s
* {{L|Goblet}}s
* {{L|Trap}} {{L|weapon}}s
* {{L|Window}}s
* {{L|Furniture}}
}}
{{elven}}
{{Workshops}}

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2010-04-11T13:29:33Z

SanDiego: /* HFS creatures */

{{Archive|
# [[Talk:Main Page/archive1|Archive 1]]
}}

== HFS creatures ==
We don't seem to have any pages for them, shouldn't they have pages like normal creatures? --[[Special:Contributions/78.151.176.4|78.151.176.4]] 13:09, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
:Aren't they randomly generated during worldgen?--[[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 13:29, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not familiar with how the Special:Random function works, but would it be possible to restrict it to random pages from particular namespaces? Getting 23a, 40d and DF2010 pages returned isn't very helpful. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 16:27, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:That would require (iirc) some fairly heavy editing to the mediawiki code. We're trying to avoid modding the code because that creates problems with updating the mediawiki software to new versions. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 18:51, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== DF2010 Title needs changing ==

The new version is now df_31_01 and each article beginning with "DF2010" seems tacky. Any others agree it should be changed to df31 or something around like that? [[User:Richards|Richards]] 19:59, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
:The problem is that we version the wiki for each game-save compatibility change. Simply changing it to 31.01 would fix it now, but when 31.02 - 39.07 come out, and then finally 40.01 comes out that breaks save compatibility, we have much more work to do. Until we know the final version number in the series, it's not easy for us to just say "oh, this is it." --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 20:02, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
::And wtf is the precedent? In all the versions of the wiki I've seen, versions are always specified as the actual number. How is it more clear to use DF2010 instead of v0.31.01? --Peewee 09:57, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

:If you aren't planning to make more special version namespaces for a while, let's use the main namespace. Also, you guys really need to talk things out more before implementing giant sweeping changes. The more I see you describe your respective visions for the wiki, the more different they seem from each other. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:29, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

::Well. A solution would be to make every article title for the current version just say the article name, ex/ instead of "DF2010:Armor", make it "Armor", like last time. If a new version is released that is different, then archive it as whatever version it last applied to, like "40d:Armor, or 31.01:Armor". Is there any problem with this idea? [[User:Richards|Richards]] 14:28, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, there is. (Namely, the amount of labor you're talking about if pages are not set-up for that.)

Here's "The Plan", which was set up a couple months ago (and which has been discussed elsewhere, but we'll do it one more time)...
:* Old versions are clearly labeled and consistently linked internally. All 40d links bounce around only to 40d articles, so if a player is researching that version, it's all one package. ''(Same w/ 23a, the "2-D" version previous to that, but an ongoing and lower-priority project.)''
:* "New" versions are, likewise, consistent within themselves. Versionless search terms (like "[[stone]]" automatically default to "current version".
:* Future versions get their own version names, "current" becomes one-older, and the pattern continues.
The current PROBLEM is three-fold - the first is the changeover itself, when first time Editors start firing away at articles without the correct names or understanding The Plan. That is understandable, but compounded by the fact that we don't currently ''know'' the "proper" version number to use - is it 0.31.01, or 0.31, or 31.01 - when the first bugfix comes out, what will be changed and what kept? What part of that number constitutes/defines this as a "version"? There is no equiv of 23.a or 40.d - it's a new code, and we weren't given the codebook. (We're waiting on Three-toe/Toady for a response on that.) The 3rd problem is "DF2010" - which is wrong, but while popular and everyone is using it, it won't be very friendly later down the road.

So... we've got something that works now but won't in the future, and needs to be changed to be consistent so we don't bequeath future Admin and users the big bone. A diff between more work now and the sort of complete cluster that has gone on behind the scenes for the last 2 months preparing for this change - which is going SO MUCH SMOOTHER NOW (believe it or not!) because of that (thankless, ahem) preparation.

Once we know the correct version, all current articles will appear as that. Search terms will default to current version. Older articles will be consistent within their own namespace. AND we'll be setup for future version changes without quite so much trauma (which is ''why'' some of the more obscure of these changes are being implemented). Clear as mud?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:06, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

:Are you basically trying to say that DF2010 is a convenient placeholder string that can be used to identify and move articles by bot when we get a stable version number from Toady? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:20, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

::Dammit, if I could express myself in anything less than 500 words at a time, I would have! (Yes, that's basically what I'm saying.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 19:31, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

:::I'm not sure who wins the eloquence award here. Anyways, we're still waiting on information from ToadyOne before we rename DF2010 to something else more appropriate. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:37, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

:::: Toady has already said that he plans to aim for possibly as often as a weekly bugfix release while the early issues of this release get ironed out. Trying to keep up with release number changes weekly would be an absolute nightmare. Until things calm down a bit I don't blame anyone here in the least for using DF2010 as a more general version name. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 15:54, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

:::::It ''is'' understood that Toady intends (ideally) for this to be both the last save-compat breaking version and the last major long-delay version... correct? Putting the entire Wiki in a namespace forever seems to me like a fairly terrible idea in any case, but it is intended for future versions to change much less of existing stuff as things go on (that is why this version took so long, in part, to get all the sweeping structural changes out of the way.) It is unlikely that there will ever be another version that would require reversioning the entire wiki, if, indeed, you think that even this one reached that level. While I'm not sure I'd agree that it was necessary to reversion the wiki for this version, the DF development plan is certainly intended to be such that revisioning the Wiki like this will never be necessary again. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 03:47, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::: All I'm saying is that for the immediate near future a large number of incremental bug fix releases are to be expected. To avoid driving people completely nuts trying to keep up with frequent version changes it makes sense to use the DF2010 title in the short term. After we see things settle down a bit I agree we should probably go ahead and return to an actual version number. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 17:27, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::With the new version numbering system being so much simpler, could we simply refer to the version as 31a? Then changing letters to account for bugfixes. I'm using 0.31 enough myself but the decimal point is awful. --[[User:Retro|Retro]] 17:40, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Not really. We're mainly talking about the namespace's name. Changing a namespaces's name is a BIG headache (though it is the reason we're using the <nowiki>{{l|link}}</nowiki> stuff) because we did know that we'd be doing at least one change, and that gets rid of a decent portion of the headache. [[user:Emi|Emi]] [[user_talk:Emi|[T]]] 18:49, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::I'm still waiting on ToadyOne to provide an official tagname for this series of releases. If we receive one, we will use it in the wiki. --[[User:Briess|Briess]] 19:02, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

== World Painter Page ==
The wiki has needed a page on the [[World Painter]] for a while, so I've started one. The information in there is decent, but I'm relatively new to wiki editing, so the formatting probably isn't. If someone wouldn't mind cleaning it up a bit for me I'd really appreciate it. --[[User:Timmeh|Timmeh]] 01:15, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

:Well I don't know if someone helped you already, but it looks fine to me. --[[User:frandude|frandude]]
:I changed the name into World Painter so it looked better (no more petty redirects!) [[User:Inawarminister|Inawarminister]] 12:01, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

== French language wiki ==

Can we have interlanguage links with the [http://www.dwarffortress.fr/wiki/ French wiki]? -[[User:Alan Trick|Alan Trick]] 17:48, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Add a CptnDuck page? ==

Captain Duck is a DF video tutorial maker, which an impressive collection of 40 videos on youtube (and a few extra videos of sieges and arenas and whatnot), and explains how to do most everything, from magma forges to Dwarven justice. He adds humor to it and he's the reason a lot of people understand the game...I think we should give him a page. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Blackdoggie998|Blackdoggie998]]

:As it is insanely easy for anyone to sign up for editing priviledges on this site (I managed to, after all), I see no need to make one for him when he could make one for himself. However, if you wish to add user:CptnDuck, or invite him to make one himself, feel free. He can link to all of his tutorials from his user page. They even be searchable through that lovely little box to the(my) left. (Who knows where it is on your skin.) -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

:P.S. Does it seem odd to you to have it say "unsigned comment by [username]"? Or is that just me? -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, just a little after the previous one.
:: Clicking 'unsigned' gave me all the explanation I need, might want to do the same [[User:Kinzarr|Kinzarr]] 23:27, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

:We don't need a userpage for him, but a page with the assembled listing of all his (and others of equal quality) video tutorials wouldn't be a bad idea at all. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 16:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

== Articles on Olivine and other generic stones ==

There is a current discussion as to whether or not [[Olivine]] (and perhaps some few other stones) are duly covered on the current [[stone]] page, or are truly worth having their own article/page. This relates to a larger question of how this wiki is organized, and "What deserves a page" in a general sense. Any interested are encouraged to chime in, if only with a "me too" post pro or con. See [[Talk:Olivine]] for an idea of the issue. I'd like to have the debate move from the specific Olivine page to here since this is a more general issue that affects many potential pages. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 21:29, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:I'm not really sure which way to go on this one. A lot of otherwise useless stones would need their own articles if the guidelines were expanded... and yet, there's a good amount of useful information that's not on the main pages, that would further clutter them if it were added; And permitting more individual pages would solve both those problems. I guess this ends up being a vote both ways, with provisions on each. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:54, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:My vote is, if someone can make it amusing, then sure. If someone is of the bent to enjoy making such a page, then again, sure... otherwise, leave it at the bottom of the pile of "things that someday we might get around to if we feel like it" and don't stress. The relevant data is covered (or will be when someone notices it's not), and everything else is gravy. Beside, what would you rather do, play the game, or figure out how to make a whole page of jokes about how gneiss nice is.... (or did I get that backwards?)... ? --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

::All relevant information is covered, yes. But not necessarily on a relevant page. Before the Olivine page was made you couldn't learn that olivine may contain native platinum from any page related to olivine or stone in general.
::Another example is kaolinite. You can look it up in the table of Other Stone to see it can be found in sedimentary rock. But in order to see that it may itself contain alunite and marcasite you have to go through the entire table (or use the browser search function). Now, in order to see if it may contain anything else, you have to notice the note at the top of the page (just above the table of contents) that points to Metal Ore and Gem, whith another two tables you have to search through. (Kaolinite may contain turquoise). --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 21:44, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:It's not just about "which stones" - it's a larger question of how the wiki is organized and presented. Should each separate and distinct item get its own page, like the current one- or two-line articles on [[vial]]s, [[instrument]]s or [[Restraint|chain]]s, (just as random parallel examples of some [[finished goods]] that have their very own, very short, very dull, and predictably repetitive articles.) Surely the [[Masons guild]] and [[miners guild]] don't deserve or need separate articles. Do we need a separate and largely redundant article for every trap weapon? What about the cookie-cutter articles on ''every'' individual animal? The GCS deserves its own, and many others, but one on each separate type of shark and hunting cat? There is no actual article there, only a template.

:Quivers and bolts are sub-sections of the [[crossbow]] article, and I think that's a ''great'' call. Olivine, talc and kaolinite are merely similar examples, distinct enough to warrant special treatment, but on the borderline of being so small to each only represent a stub. Ultimately, I don't think a functional formal definition would be easily achieved - rather guidelines and a fuzzy target, combining related info into groups with optimal size limitations (both lower end and upper end). Perhaps a template should not be forced on every lesser example, but they could be grouped into a table on their own article, "other stones of note" or "sharks" or "finished goods" or whatever.

:In many ways, our only current guidelines are "what has been done so far" - and that varies widely and wildly. Too often, pages are cobbled onto related ones, or split off just because its a new topic, if a brutally short one. Myself, I'd like to see most related articles of less than 4 lines or so get grouped into larger, more universally informative articles, and anything larger than maybe 5 full sub-sections be considered for splitting up. If an item stands out from the rest, it should stand out somewhere, in an article - but that doesn't mean it has to have its very own, or invite every similar item to do so as well.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 03:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Please check out the (no longer) current [[Chalk]] page and tell me what you think. ... which is to say, it doesn't /have/ to be a stub, does it? It can be rich and detailed and sadly unamusing. It would please me to continue to do all stones in this manner, or another manner of your choosing.... Thus negating fussing over "this one was done this way, that one was done that way" arguments. I'll get to them all, in the order they appear on the [[Stones]] page. ... assuming you guys are ok with that. --[[User:Teres Draconis]] 08:28, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:: P.S. Who's the outpost manager of this place, anyways? I'd like to know to whom I should be pandering. --jaz

::: I think 1) you should take time to read, if not learn the wiki format guidelines, 2) you should sign with your REAL user name, and stop using a pseudonym, and 3) you should not break someone else's post with yours in between their paragraphs. As to the chalk page, I think it's over-enthusiastic and pays no attention to previous article style or formatting precedent - which may be a good thing or a bad thing, depending. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::: 1) You're right, I'm sorry.
::::2) We've discussed user names on [[User_Talk:Teres_Draconis#Naming Conventions|my talks page]]. (Also, <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> still puts "jaz"... why bother with the link when it's just a P.S.?)
::::3) I'm sorry. I was (apparently) trained wrong, and that was a /long/ time ago. I was taught (20 years ago) that when responding, to do so in-line, so that people can tell what the response is actually relating to. (Like an actual conversation, except with a time warp. You say something, I respond, someone else adds, we all move on to the next topic.) It supposedly adds clarity. The style and curtesy rules of such things has changed. I can see I'll need to update myself. Thank you for pointing that out. =)
::::4) I was hasty. I had to have meatspace people explain to me why, as wiki-''writers'', you would not want so much detail on a page. Especially when, with every new game release, any given page on the wiki might need an over haul. I was only looking at it from the end-user perspective of "If I'm looking for information, I don't want a page that just tells me to go look at the three pages I've already looked at. I want a page that reduces the noise of the irrelevant, and distills to just that specific (sub-)topic." I /don't/ see the point of six pages that are identacle except for title, and all only three lines long. If it's got it's own page, it should have it's own page. If it just links back to the three pages that linked to it, and they all link to each other already, what's the point? If the only thing Chalk has going for it is that it's flux, why not just make a note on the [[Stone]] page reading, "These three rocks can be used as flux" and link to the flux page from there? Why should chalk have it's own page, if it's not going to be richly detailed and, you know, informative? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::The templates are there because they are pretty, detailed, and condensed ways to display some key information. Rather than expanding existing information so that it takes up more space, it's more productive to add things that you think are lacking. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:15, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::: I changed the other [[Stones]] table to allow for interesting minerals that are in other[[Stones]] to be posted.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:17, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:What would actually be helpful is a [[Geology]] primer, indicating how layers and inclusions are placed, where, and what the implications of "You have struck XXX" are. I know, now, that if it's olivine, I have a chance of finding veins of native platinum. One good page explaining what all of the geological processes mean would be a lot more useful then all of the various descriptions of exploratory mining. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 22:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::That sounds like a great idea.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:46, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::I agree! But I have no idea how to write it. Most of what I know about geology I learned from looking at the raws. Everything else is "OMG, is that a ''rock''?! I've heard of those!" - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::"More useful" to some, but I agree it would be a great addition. Also, the more I think about it, the more I like what MrDG did with the table in Other Stone - tables could condense any and all small, individual articles into single pages w/ (sortable?) tables where all these various similar objects could be compared/contrasted at a glance. Templates are perfect when there is a lot of various info, but if the different topics (semi-generic stones, animals, finished goods) all differ only in one or two details, and there is just not that many variables to begin with, a Table would be (imo) preferable. ''(And imo that table now covers such stones as Olivine well, to get back to the original example that sparked this discussion.)''

::As an additional example of how current stub-articles could be combined into a simple table, I've made this page - [[Example - some fish]] - which could be a model for such. (A page/table with all the "Sea-creatures" would be more likely approp, but this was faster for now.) It would replace every stub-article on related "generic" items, but any truly noteworthy items would still have their own full articles for expanded information and commentary (here, "carp"). It still has 100% of the prev information, but also allows immediate comparison and contrast, and, if sortable, allows a User to more easily compare relations between similar aspects (like "biome", in this example.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::: Is it possible to put the expandable version of the raw ("game object data (show)" seen at the bottom of the [[carp]] page) inside the table, instead of the whole thing? Or does the one preclude the other? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Actually, if someone finds it easy to extract that information from the .RAWs, I would find that an improvement on what [[Creatures]] currently has. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 17:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::If someone here knows PHP they may be able to write a new wiki hook that pulls information from raw entries. That would make many things much easier. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 22:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Which information do you want extracted? I can probably do it for you, but you may have heard, I'm in the doghouse for not paying attention to style and formating rules. =/ Show me what there is, and one example of what you want, and I can probably do it for you with a minimum of stupid questions. ... ''Probably.'' - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::@ jaz, Dec - Did either of you look at this sample table? [[Example - some fish]] Does that cover what you were envisioning? It's just a rough idea - but it could work the same way that the table on the [[stone]] page currently does, to cover all the generic, almost-identical objects. Same w/ finished goods, weapon traps, probably many other sim categories of like items.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I've read this sort of. My view is, wikis add value to the game far more for noobs than they do to legends who have been around since when the z-axis was just an idea. With this in mind, I reckon if everything with a name in the game had an article that would be *A Good Thing* (tm). Just my own opinion, feel free to disagree. Ideally, articles for things like stones should contain a template constructed from the raws, with prose/dialogue manually added.
Even things like [[screw pump]] could have a template driven section, advising what the components are / who makes it etc. Maybe <nowiki>{{building|Building Name|Component 1:Component 1 name|Component X| component X name|Constructed by|trade}}</nowiki> or similar.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 08:45, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:I agree, probably, although that sounds like a lot of work. I think the stone templates and articles could do with a bit of a cleanup and more in-game information. I mostly use the articles to see if there's anything notable about a particular stone and then check out the wikipedia page. Some of the wikipedia links are broken or indirect now because disambiguity pages have been added since. Also, the wikipedia links are right at the bottom of very long boxes listing ores and gems and the like - I suggest adding drop down boxes to the templates that contain all that information but which are minimized by default. Or changing the template so that the wikipedia link wraps around the stone name at the top. --[[User:Harmonica|Harmonica]] 01:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Way late to this party, apologies. Tables are no good (to me) if they aren't sortable. The World Ends With You (a Nintendo DS game) Wikia portal/wiki thing has an ''awesome'' method for adding sortable tables. Some gadget called [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki Semantic MediaWiki] that hooks into the Wiki to automatically pull data out as you request it, then display it in easy-to-read and use sortable tables. The TWEWY Wikia has [http://twewy.wikia.com/wiki/The_World_Ends_With_You:Semantic_MediaWiki a page on it] for their editors, giving a few examples of how powerful it is. Their use of the tool is to easily pull information from a table of 304 items, each containing 30 attributes, to generate lists comparing and compiling various items. Hugely powerful, extremely flexible.

This type of tool would work wonderfully with a PHP RAW parser, or even simple dumps of the RAWs to the Wiki. Think of how easy it would be to update the entire Wiki across the board when new versions come out. New critters? Changes to existing critters? Update the information in one spot and it trickles down through the entire Wiki! That's in addition, of course, to being able to, say, generate tables listing how many bones each creature drops when killed, then sort to see which one drops the most. Pretty sweet stuff.

With some sort of system in place for wading through all the data on the wiki, one wouldn't have to worry about having too much information, right? -- [[User:Blank|Blank]] 04:44, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Particularly for stone, I think that it would be a good idea to describe each individual stone relative to other, similar stones. Let's use [[sandstone]] as an example. Suppose that I read (either in its own article, or in a table) something along the lines of "Sandstone is a [[sedimentary]] layer. Unlike most sedimentary layers, it may contain [[aquifers]] or veins of [[native copper]]." If I already know what a sedimentary layer is (and how it differs from other types of layers), this information will be much easier to process and much more useful than a full list of everything that appears in sandstone. If I have no idea what a sedimentary layer is, this will tell me that there are several sedimentary layers and that they all have many things in common, which is again more useful than a list of everything that appears in sandstone. --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 08:56, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
:That's not the way this (any?) wiki is set up. The idea is that a lesser concept (here, "sandstone") need not include redundant info from a larger, parent concept (here, "sedimentary layer"). If you don't know what a sed'y layer is (or an aquifer or a vein or whatever) you click that link. If, then, you don't know what a "layer" is, you click that link. Sounds good at first, but if every lesser article included an explanation, even a quick synopsis, of the info for all relevant articles on broader, umbrella concepts, the articles, and this wiki as a whole, would explode beyond usefulness. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks for making my point for me. If you look at the current sandstone article, it lists everything contained in sandstone. Looking at just the ores and non-generic stones, we have: Native copper, Hematite, Limonite, Magnetite, Native platinum, Tetrahedrite, Bituminous coal, Lignite, Bauxite. All of these except for native copper appear in every sedimentary layer. That's not even counting all of the generic stone (especially gypsum with its five other types of generic stone contained in it) and (mostly low-value) gems. 95% of the text in this article is redundant, and could easily be summarized by "This layer is exactly like every other sedimentary layer except for these two differences". --[[User:LaVacaMorada|LaVacaMorada]] 09:06, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Ah - ''that's'' your point. (When you said "describe", I thought you were advocating a narrative commentary on and verbal expansion of the info included in the sidebar.) When I was talking about not having redundant info, I was talking text - which is quite terse in this case, exactly because of the point you make. Those sidebars were designed to encapsulate the key info, an "at a glance" sort of thing, to avoid exactly what you're talking about in narrative form. Are the sidebars redundant? Often, yes. But they are the style this wiki has adopted for ''all'' stone. So you're talking not just about changing sed'y layers, but the style approach to all stone, since they would not then be consistent across the board. (Not how I would have personally designed the layout, but it's there and it works, and well. Any stone, same layout, same info in the same place, bam got it.) And when discussing presentation and usability issues, any article has to be taken both individually and in the context of others "like" it - here, any "stone" article is the same layout, the same info at a glance, which (for now) trumps whatever redundancies exist. Perhaps a quick line such as you're stating would go well, since there is, indeed, very little unique to say about any one sub-type of sedimentary layer, and that is info in and of itself. (Take a look at any [[igneous extrusive]] except obsidian for something similar.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 16:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

A lot of people have been talking a lot of things about reorganizing the information on the stones pages. After browsing around on them for a while, I've found the information to be mostly scattered and difficult to draw conclusions from. For example, I wasn't aware that each geographic stone type had a base list of stones that can appear, while only some of them have a couple of unique stones that may appear along with that list. It wasn't until I began gathering all of that data together for myself, that I found the patterns. I had to work to tie it all together. So, I have a partially completed table of pulldown menus on my user page right now. If anyone's interested they could take a look and tell me what they think? (Yes, I know a lot of it is redundant. I have an idea on how to fix this, but I haven't completely decided yet) --Kydo 13:55, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Lumping all the generic stones into one page is pretty much a labor saving device. There are a lot of different stones in DF most of which have no real differences other than color. So in one respect, I do see reasoning for saving some effort and dumping them in one place. On the other hand, it would be useful to me to see slightly more detailed information about each of the colored stones, for example, I know alunite looks a certain way before it is mined out, it's general color is bright white, when used to build trap components it is bright white in both the on and off position (many stones go to dark in the off position). In the same vein, when used to build tables and chairs, both will be bright white (many stones go to dark for chairs). If you're looking for a "certain look" and want to know a tiny bit more about the stone colors at present, that information simply isn't here as things are now. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 16:21, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

== Not a Roguelike ==

Dwarf Fortress only resembles a Roguelike in the sense that everything kills you. ASCII graphics haven't connoted Rogue-resemblance since Diablo came out with modern 3D graphics and was still considered a Roguelike.
[[User:LogicalDash|LogicalDash]] 22:08, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you for Fortress mode, but adventurer mode is rogue like.--[[User:Mjo625|Mjo625]] 22:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

:DF is rogue-like like.[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 08:59, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

LogicalDash, Diablo is in 2D, not 3D. --[[User:612DwarfAvenue|612DwarfAvenue]] 05:10, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

What makes a rogue-like? too classic a question to pass up . ahem IMHO there three major elements, A dungeon crawl/ fantasy setting, ASCII and random as hell. That makes dwarf fortress three outta three hits for me. Close enough, i'd say, if it's not a rogue-like what other category could it go in? sure its not a great fit but a unique game has to go somewhere. Diablo is a dungeon crawl like rogue sure, but it lacks the depth and randomness of any of the other recognised roguelikes, ADOM, moria etc. So one outta three? The depth, randomness and spontaneity really make it, ever had a character eaten by a bear on the way to the village in ADOM? classic. --[[User:Pedantictype|Pedantictype]] 05:46, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
:I'm afraid I have to disagree with you, Pedantictype. A Rogue-like is defined by the original: Rogue. Rogue was, first and foremost, a dungeon-crawl with control of a single character, yes? I would postulate that that is one of the elements that is required to be defined as a rogue-like, which qualifies Adventure mode but not Fortress mode. --[[User:Eagle0600|Eagle0600]] 05:04, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::Eagle's right. A roguelike game plays somewhat like Rogue and has ascii graphics. Fortress mode DF is a tactical/strategic/sandbox ascii game, not a roguelike. And isn't there general intent for it to have graphics one day, once it's out of the design stages? --Kydo 01:58, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== Link to Add Quotes ==

To get help on how to add quotes to the main page, consult [[Talk:Main Page/Quote|this]] link.

== Incoming New Version ==

Guys. We might as well prepare for the new version that will be coming by the end of the year (maybe). What will need to change? Weapons and armor, the underground stuff... I don't know all of it. But it's extensive. Get ready.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
:Well, we don't know all the details, and names of jobs/items can change before actual release. [[User:Kurokikaze|Kurokikaze]] 16:14, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
:I don't see what this has to do with anything, i guess it's nice of you to tell us. But what do you mean "get ready?"
: Gird your loins, gentlemen. Or something.
::It'll be hard to cover every page - if you edit, try to follow up on links, etc. Might also have to check the "oldest pages" listing to see that they've all been updated (except it's broken atm). The worst currently is that we ''still'' have legacy crap from earlier versions in obscure corners and comments that's not relevant to current version. Bonus.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 06:11, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
:This might be useful: http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AT8EQVUjrv96ZGc5cnBwOHZfMjgyY3FzZHFtanA&hl=en
:Are we just changing this wiki? (as opposed to forking with the new version, in case some people keep playing 40d?) [[Special:Contributions/206.45.111.58|206.45.111.58]] 22:39, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
::Forking sounds good to me. But I have no idea how well wikis handle forking. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 14:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
:::In any case I think it would be a good idea to updated articles as is, and not wipe them out like in the wiki's switch to 3d which simply wiped out a lot of good information along with outdated text. Forking is a good route to take if people don't want to lose 40d inforamtion. [[User:Richards|Richards]] 19:40, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

== Interwiki ==

Correct link to Russian DF wiki, please.
Right link = www.dfwk.ru instead current www.dfwiki.ru --[[Special:Contributions/91.192.82.106|91.192.82.106]] 11:43, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
:It's done, so should we delete this conservation? (not that great at wiki myself) [[User:Inawarminister|Inawarminister]] 09:46, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

== Random page ==

Why is "Random page" only bringing me to "Count Consort"? :\ --[[Special:Contributions/99.33.67.9|99.33.67.9]] 22:33, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
:It seems "Random page" is only random daily... Is this intentional? --[[Special:Contributions/99.33.67.9|99.33.67.9]] 20:31, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
::There's probably something wrong with your browser cache settings - it works fine for me. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 20:37, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

== Random images ==

Where are the images on the main page coming from? It's easy to find the quotes, but where are the images? [[User:MC Dirty|MC Dirty]] 15:14, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

:I have an image I'd like added... I'll put it on my userpage if anyone wants to take a look at it and see if it's acceptable for uploading. --[[User:Waladil|Waladil]] 06:40, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

== New Category Idea - Well Known Dwarves ==

After reading some stories on many of the most awesome dwarfs to show up in this game. (Namely Captain Ironblood, Morul, Tholtig) That a category, perhaps a sub one to Humor and Stories just for Dwarves that are very very clearly above the normal for the already outrageous(ly awesome) game of Dwarf Fortress. However do to the fact this is less on the game mechanics and such, the idea is first here so other's can figure if it's worth having a category. One thing that comes to mind is there really should be some sort of limit to what makes a Dwarf and Epic/Well Known Dwarf so as to prevent people from putting everyone they liked up there rather then the few '''everyone''' likes. Mostly asking as there is a handful of such dwarfs and that number is only going to (slowly) grow. Each said Dwarf I think deserves some sort of noting on a page for my two cents on the topic.
:I definitely thing that this is a great idea in the true spirit of DF.

== Images ==

So, what does everyone think? Would it be a good idea to have real-world images (or possibly sketches for fantasy, if applicable) of the following:
* Trees
* Fish
* Land animals
* Weapons and armor
* Stones
* Ores
* Land features (desert, savannah, etc.)
* Gems
* Metals
* Plants
We already have two pages with example images for a [[Pike_(weapon)#Pike|weapon]] and a [[Sandstone|stone]] for example. I find this very nice for visualizing my fortress and what's going on, since I'm not very familiar with many of the distinctions DF makes. I mean, I know what a fish looks like but I haven't got a clue what the difference between a pike and a char is, or a birch and alder, or even bronze and pewter to be honest.--[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 22:42, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
:The normal issues with this kind of thing is REAL-WORLD publishers being annoying with copyright. I guess if we can find it from the real-world wiki then there is a good chance it is a public domain image.
:There is no way in the world it would hurt an article to have one of these. Although, for fantasy objects, materials, and creatures, there may well be some discussion about if the "Dragon" should be a European, Oriental, or some other dragon (and so on for the rest).
:[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 11:52, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
::Well, I've added pictures to some of the layer stones and vermin, as well as all the ores. If anyone is interested, you can link to files on wikimedia commons as if they were internal files now.--[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 04:52, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
:::What if those of us with artistic skills were to produce original content for such pages? For example, I could easily do a few drawings depicting certain fantasy creatures as well as actual creatures. --Kydo 22:56, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
::::I don't see how that could even remotely hurt at all.--[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 15:21, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Who says that the 'Dragon' as a creature isn't a generalization of any species? To be honest, with the graphics as they are, I think that most of Dwarf Fortress comes down to the way the user imagines it, rather than how it appears on screen. Rather like the old text based adventure games of old.--[[Special:Contributions/85.12.64.150|85.12.64.150]] 10:18, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
:::Whoever you are, that is why i don't use a tileset.[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 06:15, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
:As a rule of thumb, "graphics" are good things - eye candy, if nothing else. Purty. Use common sense and discretion when choosing (or creating) the image - avoid genre-specific images or anything that is copyrighted (like from an identifiable RPG, for instance), and perhaps add "artist's interpretation" under it, or a selection of (smaller) different images for something like a dragon (tho' I, personally, don't see dwarves with oriental dragons - ymmv.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:49, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
::Seeing as how this is a wiki and what not, why not simple add a western dragon, and if anyone objects to the bias they can add an oriental dragon, so we have two pictures and not only both sides are happy but everyone gets more pictures to look at?--[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 15:21, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
:(Also, if you're interested enough to post in the Main Page Discussion, you might want to get an account. Meh.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:49, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

== No link to World Generation? ==

Home page needs a link to World Generation. I thought of adding it, but didn't want to upset the delicate symmetry happing in the menus. Thoughts as to where it could go? [[Special:Contributions/118.208.7.232|118.208.7.232]] 04:25, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

== Namespaces ==

As the subject has been mentioned on the forum:
some articles have been moved to a new 40d namespace. This is intended to make way for the "main" namespace to be reserved for the "current version", which ''real soon now'' will be DF2010.
For the full discussion see [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki:Versions]] and the talk page.
[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 10:32, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Then bloody well move them. These blank 40d pages are making finding information that is supposed to be there very hard to find.

:Agreed..Plus I dont understand the site announcements so i pretty much can't contribute to the wiki right now. Hope you got a stable team to help and are done with it soon. Oh, and a better explanation would be great of course. --[[Special:Contributions/92.202.120.234|92.202.120.234]] 00:10, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
::When is the moving of things to the main namespace going to be complete? Having everything in DF2010 namespace is horribly annoying, and the 40d namespace screws up searches and makes it harder to find stuff via google searches and such. How long is it going to take to get the wiki fixed to the current version, delete all the old d40 stuff, and get rid of the namespaces? --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 03:40, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

== Tutorials clutter ==

Currently we have in the first box:
*About Dwarf Fortress
*'''Tutorials and guides'''
*'''Quickstart guide (recent)'''
*'''Frequently Asked Questions'''
*'''Your first fortress'''
*'''Video tutorials'''
*'''Important advice'''
*'''Indecisive's Illustrated Tutorial'''
*'''Get help from online chat'''
*Game development
*'''Non-Dwarf's Guide to Rock'''
*'''Starting builds'''

Bolded are the ones I think are redundant. Basically, we have the following categories of stuff:
*Tutorials for newbies: Step by step instructions where you follow what the guide says, without necessarily understanding why right away.
*Guides for newbies: General explanations of game concepts, such as z-level, how to set labors, how to farm, how to work the interface and install a graphical tileset, what the aim of the game is, etc.
*Guides for advanced players: These assume you know how to play the game, and are concerned with optimizing/pushing strategy. Embark build discussions which go beyond explaining the bare minimums you should take (such as "don't embark without a pick!", intended for newbies who may not know what they are doing), megaprojects, combat mechanics, computing, farming strategies, defense strategies, design strategies, macros, world generation parameter discussion and the like.
*FAQ, bugs and troubleshooting: The index of known problems and what to do about them, for when you have a clear question you want to figure out. This includes the FAQ, IRC channels and bugs to watch out for.
That makes 4 categories. Currently, we have 10 categories dealing with the same things. Moreover, the current break down makes no sense, and is obviously not maintained (I think that quickstart guide has been "recent" since early last summer). It's becoming confusing for the clueless first time player who was just linked to Bay12 and the wiki on a forum, and left to fend for itself. In fact, ideally, the tutorials and newbie guides should also be sorted from short to long, with datestamps.

I would rearrange the box myself, but I thought I'd ask what everyone else is thinking first. By the way, are there any tutorials for DF2010, or plans to write any? --[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 02:07, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
::By the way, my proposal is to have the box look like this:
::'''Help with Dwarf Fortress'''
::*About Dwarf Fortress
::*How to set up and play Dwarf Fortress (Tutorials)
::*General game information (explanation of basics)
::*Advanced strategies (for experienced players)
::*Troubleshooting: FAQ, where to ask for help, known bugs and issues
::*Game development
::--[[User:Ar-Pharazon|Ar-Pharazon]] 02:14, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

== New modding guide ==
I'm not really sure what the process is for new guides and tutorials. I figured it would be of general community interest, so I'm posting this here; [[User:Tfaal/The Complete Dorf's Guide to Bodies]] --[[User:Tfaal|Tfaal]] 16:43, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

==Bug listings on the Wiki==
Given that the version number is expected to be changing quite rapidly in the near future as bugs are caught and killed, I think it's a good idea to always keep a version number associated with any bug reports we migrate into the wiki pages. This will hopefully minimize confusion as updates gradually remove these. If we could get one of those mini-version tags to use for this purpose or if someone can explain to me how to use that half-sized font for this purpose that would be helpful. Thanks. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 16:23, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:There is already a template for this: [[Template:Version]]. You use it as follows.
:<nowiki>Example.{{version|0.23.130.23a}}</nowiki>
:results in:
:Example.{{version|0.23.130.23a}} --[[User:Soy|Soy]] 16:44, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:: Thank you, that is all I needed. [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 17:54, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

== What happened to the link to the dev changelog? ==

There used to be a link to the changelog and a link to the 31_01 release information, but now there's just a link to the release information labeled "changelog." Also the main page appears to use a funny template or something so the link's messed up throughout all of the mainpage history.
:-That's a link I used almost daily. While I realize I'm an idiot for not just bookmarking it, it is a little disconcerting for it to :be gone. Either way, I've always thought it was one of the most relevant links on the main page—it let's you know where the game :project is at ''right now''.
:Wow, forgot sig and indent. I'm amazing. :P ----[[User:Njero|Njero]] 01:03, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Found the template in question, figured there was no reason for the changelog link not to be there so I put it back; it seemed like it was removed by mistake anyway. Also renamed the link to the release information so there wouldn't be two links entitled "changelog." --[[User:Untelligent|Untelligent]] 02:22, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

==Announcements Hider==
The announcement-hiding script on Briess's page no longer works--it's checking the contents of an id that no longer exists. Replacing the conditional with collapseTable(0) works, but sidesteps the original intent of the conditional, which I presume is to display the options if they've changed since last visit. Does that functionality still apply? While we're at it, is it possible to assign a named value to the collapsible table, so that it can be collapsed without referring to its position relative to other collapsible tables (which breaks the hider script on certain skins)? -[[User:Slitherrr|Slitherrr]]

==How will merging/splitting topics work for backward compatibility linking==
I got thinking about this when helping work on the military pages, we're branching this out into squads/military/schedule/etc. because of how much more complex things have suddenly got with the military system. It was a natural direction to take things. What's the correct way to handle backward compatibility links in this situation? And now that I'm thinking about it, how about page merging? If we decide to merge anything how will that be handled? [[User:Doctorzuber|Doctorzuber]] 03:59, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

== Game object date boxes ==

These boxes on the creature pages need some kind of text formatting to stop them expanding to far. Just an example try the [[dog|dog]] page. --[[User:AKAfreaky|AKAfreaky]] 12:54, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

User:SanDiego

2010-04-11T13:28:47Z

SanDiego:

I am SanDiego. As of now (2010) I'm 20 years old medicine student from Czech Republic and hopefully will be studying for some more time (posiibility of interrupting by Dwarf fortress). Also, my shift key is bugger.

v0.31:Immigration

2010-04-11T13:02:54Z

SanDiego: added rating

{{av}}
{{human}}
Immigration can occur once per season, and can happen at any time throughout (both early and late season immigrations have been reported)

Smaller migrant waves (3 to 9) seem typical in early seasons, followed by a large wave (low double digits) in the second Spring (one year after embark). Be prepared with adequate {{l|food}}, {{l|alcohol|drink}}, and {{l|bed}}s, among other things. Max wave size reported to date is 25{{verify}}.

Migrants also often bring animals with them. These are often not pets of the migrants, but will always be domestic animals.

Immigrant waves will not exceed the maximum number of dwarves you have specified in init.txt, but instead will match up exactly.{{verify}} (or, of course, stay below)

== Labour preference bug ==

Migrants each can arrive with a wide collection of (often unrelated) skills, far greater than possible with one of the {{L|starting build|starting 7 dwarves}}, and {{L|experience}} levels (at least) as high as Legendary.
Any and all skills might be represented, including obscure military skills (like {{l|blowgunner}}), high levels of one or more {{l|social skill}}s, {{l|crutch walker}}, {{l|concentration}} and others.

Immigrants may have high skills in certain {{l|labor|labors}} without actually having them enabled in their labor preferences. This leads to dwarves either doing jobs from an area they are not labeled for or no work at all. For example, an adequate cheese maker (with the cheese making labor turned on) may also have the skill bonecrafting on "high master", albeit turned off in his preferences. The dwarf in question is listed as a bonecrafter on screen and in the {{l|status}} tab, but will only perform the cheese making labor. Individually checking each immigrant for skills and labor preferences is the only workaround so far.

v0.31 Talk:Bronze colossus

2010-04-11T12:46:40Z

SanDiego: /* Heavy Defense */

==Heavy Defense==
Seems these guys have gotten an added problem in 2010. No amount of physical trauma will outright kill it! In the free arena, I've placed two in there to fight each other, and after hours of pummeling each other, one is all red (except for severed hands and feet and nose), but refuses to die. Dragonfire does the trick, though.--[[User:Aescula|Aescula]] 20:06, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, but they can be effectively rendered incapable of fighting. I had some experiments with collosi in arena and while they may seem invincible, after some while they turn into torso incapable of any retaliation. Though I suppose they would still scare dwarves, it will give you time to pour some nice, hot magma upon him--[[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 12:46, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

==Wrestlers==
There's an interesting mechanic (bug? exploit?) involving wrestlers. I had a legendary wrestler who got attacked by one of these. They fought for months, and in fact are still fighting. The colossus seems to have lost the ability to fight - looking back over the logs for the past several months, nothing has happened - and though every part of my wrestler has been destroyed, he is unconscious and bleeding heavily, neither will die. Further, when I attacked it with my other (20 dwarf) force, the colossus didn't fight back.

That said, it still won't die, but it's incapacitated and is now some kind of frightening punching bag. I've gotten three dwarfs from "expert" to "axelord" so far. Not sure how to put this information in the wiki but it belongs here somewhere. [[User:Rodya mirov|Rodya mirov]]

User talk:SanDiego

2010-04-11T12:38:23Z

SanDiego:

Welcome to this wiki! Dwarf Fortress rapidly becomes more complicated, and we're always glad to have new writers. 
Since you should try to follow wiki standards, and you probably don't know ours yet, we've made a list of basic guidelines. Note that this is a template, not a customized message for you.
* To tell us who you are when you talk, please sign your posts on discussion pages by typing <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code> after your posts. This can also be inserted with the [[Image:Button sig756222.png]] button if JavaScript is enabled.
* Don't put a question mark in the title of a page. Question marks mess things up, and your page will be moved to a different name.
* When making comments on a talk page, use one more colon before each line in your comment than was used in the comment you reply to. In general, put exactly one empty line between comments by different users but do not use blank lines inside of a comment.
* Avoid making many small edits to a page. Instead, try to make one large edit. This makes the history of the page a lot easier to read.
* Don't edit the user page of another user. If you want to tell them something, add the comment to their talk page.
* If you put a comment at the bottom of a talk page with section headers, you've probably put it in a section. Putting things in the wrong sections is confusing. You can create a section!
* Generally, [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#We_are_doing_this.21_Let_us_do_it_right.|read and follow the rules.]] They're like a little constitution, except not boring! Really, read them.
* Read the [[df:Announcements|site announcements]] regularly, they contain important info.
* Check up on the [[df:Manual of Style|manual of style]] occasionally, it's still being written, but will contain important style info soon.
* Some pages have version-specific articles, (ie: 40d, 23a...) when creating a redirect from the mainspace to a version specific article, use cv: instead of the version namespace.
<div align=center><div style="width: 28em; padding: 0.5em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: 0.5em; border: 1px solid #ccc; background: #eee; text-align: center">''"You have been processed! Go forth, now, and edit!" --[[User:Savok|Savok]]''</div></div>

Hi - welcome to the wiki. Someone suggested that you might have just copied/pasted old 40d material into a new page ([[DF2010:Hoary marmot]] - see talk page)- I have no idea if you did or if they're just confused, don't have time to check and don't care if it happened so long as it isn't repeated - but either way, make sure 100% of any material going into new articles has been screened for accuracy w/ the new version - both in your edits, and others'! Readya later. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:19, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:To clarify, the suggestion was not that you had copypasted old material into the new page, but that you had copied the contents of a template instead of merely linking to it. To link to a template, you just need to put ''<nowiki>{{templatename}}</nowiki>'', and the contents of that template will appear in the page in question. Thanks for your contributions! :) --[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 06:50, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I actually copied the template into the article, it was confusion on my part as I was unsure of how to use it properly. Thanks for enlightening me--[[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 12:38, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:Hoary marmot

2010-04-05T16:03:39Z

SanDiego: Created page with '''A large rodent that lives in groups in the high mountains.'' ---- Small, furry creatures, mostly unharmful, but they can get into your fortress interrupting your dwarves. Easi…'

''A large rodent that lives in groups in the high mountains.''

----
Small, furry creatures, mostly unharmful, but they can get into your fortress interrupting your dwarves. Easily bested by single dwarf.
{{CreatureInfo|name=Hoary marmot|symbol=m|color=rgb(192, 192, 192)|
size=?|fat=?|skulls=1|modvalue=?|skin=Yes|
biome=
* Mountain
}}

 <center>
{| class="collapsible collapsed infobox" style="background-color: #f9f9f9; border: 1px solid #aaa; font-size: 90%; margin: 1em 0em 0em; padding: 2px; text-align: center; width: 50%;"
! colspan="2" style="border: 1px solid #aaa; font-weight:bold; background-color: #ccf; padding-left: 1em; padding-right: 1em;" | [[Creatures]]
|-
| style="font-weight:bold; background-color: #ccf; padding-left: 1em; padding-right: 1em;" | [[:Category:Races|Races]]
| [[Dwarf|Dwarves]] • [[Elf|Elves]] • [[Human]]s • [[Goblin]]s • [[Kobold]]s
|-
| style="font-weight:bold; background-color: #ccf; padding-left: 1em; padding-right: 1em;" | [[:Category:Animals|Animals]]
| [[Beak dog]] • [[Black bear]] • [[Bonobo]] • [[Camel]] • [[Carp]] • [[Cat]] • [[Cougar]] • [[Cow]] • [[Deer]] • [[Dog]] • [[Donkey]] • [[Elephant]] • [[Elk]] • [[Fox]] • [[Giant bat]] • [[Giant cave spider]] • [[Giant cave swallow]] • [[Giant eagle]] • [[Grizzly bear]] • [[Groundhog]] • [[Hoary marmot]] • [[Horse]] • [[Mole dog]] • [[Mountain goat]] • [[Mule]] • [[Muskox]] • [[Pike (fish)|Pike]] • [[Raccoon]] • [[Rhesus macaque]] • [[Unicorn]] • [[Whale]] • [[Wolf]]
|-
| style="font-weight:bold; background-color: #ccf; padding-left: 1em; padding-right: 1em;" | [[:Category:Humanoids|Mans]]
| [[Antman]] • [[Batman]] • [[Blizzard man]] • [[Dark gnome]] • [[Fire imp]] • [[Fire man]] • [[Frogman]] • [[Iron man]] • [[Leechman]] • [[Lizardman]] • [[Magma man]] • [[Merperson]] • [[Mountain gnome]] • [[Mud man]] • [[Ogre]] • [[Olmman]] • [[Ratman]] • [[Slugman]] • [[Snailman]] • [[Snakeman]] • [[Troglodyte]] • [[Troll]] • [[Werewolf]]
|-
| style="font-weight:bold; background-color: #ccf; padding-left: 1em; padding-right: 1em;" | [[:Category:Semi-megabeasts|Semi-Megabeasts]]
| [[Cyclops]] • [[Ettin]] • [[Giant]] • [[Minotaur]]
|-
| style="font-weight:bold; background-color: #ccf; padding-left: 1em; padding-right: 1em;" | [[:Category:Megabeasts|Megabeasts]]
| [[Bronze colossus]] • [[Dragon]] • [[Hydra]] • [[Titan]]
|}
</center>
<noinclude>[[Category:Templates]]</noinclude>
<includeonly>[[Category:Creatures]]</includeonly>

40d Talk:Alligator

2009-05-15T13:32:34Z

SanDiego:

Are these guys aggressive? In real life they are certainly dangerous, but in one game where I had one, I didn't have any problems with it. Didn't even get any " _____ cancelled ______ : Interrupted by Alligator." I even assigned my two war dogs to the two foragers (one per guy) as I wasnt taking chances with it.--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 17:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

They move wickidly fast. --[[User:DUMBELLS|DUMBELLS]] 21:50, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

Easy to kill. Just don't let it get a grasp on you, or you're dead. Really dead. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:29, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I started on a map with kobold cave and one named alligator. Suddenly, the alligator appeared 'dead' on my refuse pile. Could kobolds bring it down? Or did it die all by itself? --[[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 13:32, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Quarry bush leaves

2008-12-22T21:27:40Z

SanDiego:

Quarry bush leaves are acquired when processing [[Quarry bush]] at [[farmer's workshop]] and cooked at [[kitchen]]. Processing one bush will recquire one [[bag]] and can yield 5 leaves from each plant in stack. This can lead to large amounts of leaves in single bag which can produce large number of meals on single stockpile pile.

Quarry bush leaves

2008-12-22T21:27:27Z

SanDiego: New page: =Quarry bush leaves= Quarry bush leaves are acquired when processing Quarry bush at farmer's workshop and cooked at kitchen. Processing one bush will recquire one bag and ...

=Quarry bush leaves=

Quarry bush leaves are acquired when processing [[Quarry bush]] at [[farmer's workshop]] and cooked at [[kitchen]]. Processing one bush will recquire one [[bag]] and can yield 5 leaves from each plant in stack. This can lead to large amounts of leaves in single bag which can produce large number of meals on single stockpile pile.

40d Talk:On break

2008-12-02T21:11:32Z

SanDiego:

Not sure if this page makes any sense to keep in the Wiki. 
a) Spelling not okay 
b) Insulting wordings 
c) no useful information 
d) "Holiday" is not a game concept; the Wiki should stick to DwarfFortress terminology 
– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Samyotix|Samyotix]]

:I think it needs to be either turned into a more reference article or the humour improved. But it would be nice to know how often a dwarfs status becomes '''On break''', and how long the break is inclined to last, and is there anything you can do (in improving efficiency) to make the breaks shorter and less frequent.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:40, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

::Changed the wording a bit, hope that's better. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:05, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Ick. While this page is currently useless, Garrie does make a good point. It does need to be moved to [[On break]], though. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:31, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::::YATTA! Move successful. Kudos to Savok! Lord of the Wiki! --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 10:53, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

==The good parts of breaks==

If you ever get huge waves of unhappiness in a fort (meaning about 3/4 of the population is unhappy to SOME extent, generally after a few friendly dwarves die), you should know that matters get really difficult since dwarves are randomly tantruming, going berserk and murdering others, or becoming melancholy/stark, raving mad (making themselves useless). So I tried making all the unhappy dwarves have no jobs at all, so they are free to do nothing. Some took breaks, and their unhappiness decreased fairly well (like from miserable to unhappy).--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 06:06, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
:Well, but when you seriousl need a job done and your only semi-skilled dwarf is currently on break which is going on for over one week, it's annoying [[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 16:11, 2 December 2008 (EST)

User:SanDiego

2008-11-30T17:25:07Z

SanDiego: New page: Blank, but in no time will be filled (i.e. when I will have time).

Blank, but in no time will be filled (i.e. when I will have time).

40d Talk:Magma

2008-11-30T17:19:27Z

SanDiego:

Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the [[Magma smelter]] article, which state that using [[Fire-safe materials]] is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:: Yes, dwarves seem to be able to swim through magma unharmed when temperature is off(I've had them shoved in during a fight, not 100% sure), but they'll violently resist this, even without danger. Water will still steam, it seems to be hard coded. --[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 16:50, 12 November 2008 (EST)

Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_rocks#Naming this article] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock#Mineralogical_classification this site] list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?
:It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.
::So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)

On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--[[User:SL|SL]] 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)
::I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this "cap", I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)

== Magmapool/pipe section ==
Zara, you recently added some info about all magma pipes having cliffs over them -- this is incorrect. I've played a very large number of magma pipe maps, and very often they are completely exposed to the air. I've also removed the line about them being "as small as two z-levels!", because it needs better phrasing. I may fix it later. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 22:39, 26 February 2008 (EST)

:in the meantime I had figured that out, too. But what is the difference between a magma pipe and a volcano, then? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Zara|Zara]]

::As far as I know, the distinction comes down to whether it reaches the surface. If so, some would then call it a volcano rather than a magma pipe. I believe that magma pipes which reach the surface (or volcanoes, if you will) are the only ones which actually show up on the embark map, while underground magma pipes and magma pools do not (unless you use the Regional Prospector tool). --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 23:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

:::No, similar to Moonanibe,I've played on several maps where, on the embark screen, the magma pipe was only visible using regional prospector. However, as soon as I took a look at the place, I found the magma partly (or completely) exposed on the surface. [[User:Zara|Zara]] 01:59, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

== Added new section ==
I added a section regarding "Built objects vs. Magma". I think it's absolutely vital we establish what does and doesn't melt in magma, in a clean list. There are quite a few things that could be added to that list (Constructed floors for one) so please, do add to it. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 17:31, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:Have you tested the bridges? I conjecture that all buildings and constructions without mechanisms are perfectly fine with magma contact. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:: The bridges part was cut from another section of the article and moved in there. Since it was already here, I assumed it was accurate. I haven't actually checked myself. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 16:54, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:I will verify bridges one way or the other. I'm pretty sure they cant melt, though. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:03, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::they dont melt, as they arent actually within the magma. that was copied over from the 2d wiki and nobody removed it -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 22:29, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::: I noticed you removed the line about bridges. It seems silly not to mention them at all, so I've written up a line about them working no matter what the material and stuck it in. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 23:12, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::::yea they should definately be mentioned, wasnt thinking when i removed it completely(recovering from a bad cold and brain is still a bit foggy) -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 00:49, 20 February 2008 (EST)
Tested. Non-magmaiproof bridges -over- magma are fine. Non-magma-proof submerged in magma will melt. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:39, 21 February 2008 (EST)
: Interesting. I'll edit the article to say as much. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 15:30, 21 February 2008 (EST)
This is what I've found: ANY Construction is safe from magma (even wooden ones. Walls, stairs, fortifications, etc). Any building is unaffected by magma if the magma doesn't occupy the same tile as the building. Example: a door is safe if it's closed, even if it's made of non-safe rock or wood. If you lock it open with a mechanism, or if it's jammed, then the magma interacts with the components, burning/melting them if they can't stand the heat. A pump made of wood or any other material is also safe, as long as the magma doesn't flow *over* it. Since the "out" side acts as a wall, if it's correctly isolated from the magma it won't get damaged and will pump the magma without any trouble. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 01:41, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Anyone clear on Vertical Bars in magma? I am attempting to keep imps and such from moving through my magma feeding tunnel and was curious if anyone had any good solutions to this problem. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 16:23, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

:I just use a bauxite wall grate, it works fine for me. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:02, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
:: Ah, thank you, I just wanted to be sure they didn't melt regardless --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 02:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 
I made a few tests with magma and buildings/constructions and I can confirm some known results and I can provide a few new aspects. Constructions (b->C) are magma safe (walls, floors, stairs, others not tested). No matter what the material is.
*<s>bridges build with bauxite *rocks* are not magma safe (bauxite mechanism or not)</s>
*bridges build with bauxite *blocks* are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
*bridges build with steel bars are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
Open test: bridge with blocks considered as not magma safe.
 [[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:14, 11 July 2008 (EDT)
::I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The bridges build with bauxite rocks were previously connected with a lever. Unfortunately the mechanism is not removed from the bridge when you remove the lever. Well, at least it seems that the rules for magma safe materials are valid for bridges. With one exception: raised bridges can contain any mechanism, only when magma flows over the bridge it is destroyed.--[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 13:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== Replenishing Magma ==

Since magma replenishes now, I've rewritten that snippet from the article. If I've missed something(a kind of magma not regenerating, though this always worked for me on several maps), feel free to correct things. --[[User:Romantic Warrior|Romantic Warrior]] 15:47, 18 February 2008 (EST).

I have a very good feeling that the replenishing magma is just "pressurized" magma. I haven't tested fully, but i have poured water over a magma pipe and re-mined it, and in that case the magma flow was upwards. --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 03:49, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Temperature ==

Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:I'm not sure how the temperature calculations are done, but I CAN tell you that magma will melt nearby ice. Check out http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-153-meltingwateronglacier to see it in action. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 15:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)

::It should be a flow, just like the magma itself. One of the other visible results is warm stone. The same can probably be said for water and damp stone as well. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)

==Flow?==

I have a magma pipe (pit) in my current fortress... I breached the pipe from the lowest level because of the diagonal bug when I discovered it, and it filled some long exploratory shafts. Since then, the top magma layer is down to 5/7 and 6/7 running all over the surface. After a little while, it's easy to see that magma act curiously: instead of bouncing from wall to wall like real water physics, in my game the 5/7 (the flow) seems to all move in the same direction at the same time. The direction change often, and seem to change randomly. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)

There is another way to stop a flow of magma that's moving through a tunnel. You can go one z-level higher, dig to a spot above the magma-filled tunnel, then build a channel above where the magma is flowing and assign it as a Pond Zone. So long as you have buckets and a viable Water Source zone, a dwarf will come along and drop water on the magma, instantly turning it into obsidian and blocking the tunnel. --[[User:Stromko]] January 6th, 2007
: I've tried this - it rarely works. Usually you just destroy 1/7 of the magma per bucket, along with the water from the bucket, and nothing turns to obsidian. You need to hit it with larger quantities of water at once to get reliable results. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:35, 6 January 2008 (EST)
::Actually, you have to hit it from two levels up. Just one won't do anything.--[[User:Demosthenes|Demosthenes]] 17:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)

I have added a section to the main page on magma flow, based on frequent confusion in the forums, and on some investigations I have been making into the behavior of magma when pumped (I'm not the first to discover this behavior, but I did go to a fair degree of effort to test how it behaves in differing circumstances) --[[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] 21:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
:Now THAT is how you make a diagram! Awesome. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:20, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

==Criteria for Magma Buildings==

Is there a special condition that must be met before Magma Smelters/Forges/Furnaces and so on will appear on the build menus? I have a magma pit and some channels over it so that I can access it for magma, but I cannot build any magma-using buildings. - [[User:Confused Rat|Confused Rat]]

:Magma furnaces and forges need a hole somewhere on the ground where they are built. This is to allow the furnace/forge to take the heat from the magma as they are used. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:43, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:What he means is that the magma furnaces don't even appear in the build menu. This is because you haven't discovered magma through natural means. The only way this can happen is if you used reveal to find the magma. You'll have to use the [[Utilities#Enable_Magma_Buildings|Enable Magma Buildings]] utility to make them appear. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:03, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:Reclaimed fortresses may be bugged. If you reclaimed you fortress you probably can't do anything with it without 3rd party programs (like one mentioned above). Magma in [[pit]]s isn't enough to allow magma buildings. You need to discover true magma pipe and get pop-up informing about this. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Infinity Generators? ==

Because magma is currently a finite resource, would it be a good idea to add how to make an infinity generator as workarround untill Toady gives us some more of the stuff?—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Highlord Asehujiko|Highlord Asehujiko]] ([[User talk:Highlord Asehujiko|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Highlord Asehujiko|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
:Not on the main article as it would easily be considered cheating. In here, or the [[cheating]] article itself would be fine, the latter probably more appropriate as it could be applied to water as well for those scorching maps. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:16, 27 January 2008 (EST)
::Magma regenerates in most cases, which pretty much means it's infinite. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Lava vs. Magma ==

I hadn't noticed it until just now, but both Lava and Magma occur in the game. I haven't seen this fact referenced in the wiki. Magma is a fluid which occurs in Magma Pipes, and in areas directly connected to Magma Pipes. Lava appears to occur in disconnected areas. I'm not sure what happens if you reconnect. If you use {{k|k}} to view a square, you'll see either Magma or Lava depths given. I'm not clear on what difference there is between the two fluids. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

:There is none, just the name. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:30, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::both in df, and irl, molten rock in open air is called lava, while subterranean is called magma -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:40, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::: Ah, so magma which is ''Outside'' is lava. Cool. I guess my disjoint areas are all also outside :) I suppose we ought to mention this somewhere on the page? --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 19:19, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

== Magma vs puppy? ==

I have encountered an interesting glitch. I have 2 puppies and a kitten in magma that aren't dying, and yes I have temperature setting on. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-570-magmavspuppy

For those interested in trying to recreate it, I believe it has to do with designating the animal to slaughter while trying to throw it into a pit. A few of my dwarves were having pathing errors to try and slaughter them when I noticed the 3 invulnerable pests. After saving and reloading, the critters were insta-gibbed.
--[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 04:59, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Chasm Confusion ==

"The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores."

Magma, at least in my experience, has always been surrounded only by Obsidian, as a result you cannot get any kind of insight as to the surrounding minerals, this differs from a chasm where the veins coming up to a chasm are directly reflected in the walls.

--[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 04:18, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:volcanoes and magmapipes can form large "chasms" above them, though it depends on how rocky the map is
:Confirmed, various minerals and gems were visible in the 'crater' area two levels above the magma in my magma pipe. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:05, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== gruesome accident in reall really older 2d version ==

beware wooden floodgates
not only do they burn(as I planned)
but i scattered magma all around the room
it rolled around quickly in all directions, flooding the tunnels, burning miners, smelters, war dogs and puppies alike without remorse.
it has thus far filled the entire message screen with " someone" or "something" has burned to death
it appears to gain mass from creeping down hallways! oh god...
60 deaths, at least 25 dwarves and 15 puppies22:08, 28 July 2008 (EDT)[[User:Eerr|Eerr]]

== Magma cooling? ==

Ive noticed at a 1/7 depth, the magma seems to cool and go away. v40d --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:28, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

: That is probably what the author meant by "Magma that is only 1 deep "evaporates" over time." [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 19:58, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

== Mechanisms on Non-Floodgates ==

I want to power my underground smelting operations with magma, so I'm digging a tunnel into the side of a magma pipe. I don't want magma creatures coming in that way, so I need a set of [[bars]] across it. However, once I set up the bars, I need to open them to get a miner past and cut the last bit of stone and open the tunnel to the magma. I was going to just attach the bars to a level, but the question of what to use for the [[mechanism]] is bugging me. I don't want to waste my precious imported [[Bauxite]] on the mechanism, and once it closes behind the miner it never need to open again so it's fine it it melts, but not if the melting mechanism will cause the bars to deconstruct! Anyone know what happens to things other than floodgates when their mechanisms get melted off?
--17:11, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

: Or you could make your life much simpler with [[Fortifications]]. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

:: How? [[Fortification|Fortifications]] allow liquid to pass through and stop creatures, yes, but you can't open them ''at all''. How am I supposed to get my dwarf back after he digs the last square of the channel if there's a fortification blocking the way?--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 15:49, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I used a fortification to keep fire imps out of my magma channel; I dug a stairway totally unconnected to the rest of my fortress to a spot adjacent to the top layer of the magma pipe, then dug a tunnel from within the fortress to within one tile of the stairway. I fortified the tile that separated the two, then dug a channel (from outside) that let the magma flow against the "outside" face of the fortification. The magma flowed through the fortification and into the "inside" tunnel.

:::For good measure, in case I want to drain the inside tunnel at some point, I put an s-turn in the inside tunnel and situated a nickel/bauxite floodgate around the corner, out of sight of the fortification.

:::Viewed from above, basically it looks like this:

~============
~~=====..X...
~~=====.=====
~~=<#...=====
~~===========
~============

~ - Magma pipe
= - Unmined tile (wall)
. - Mined tile (channel)
< - Stairway
# - Fortification
X - Floodgate

:::The last step here is to remove the tile between the magma and the stairway by digging a channel from one z-level up.
:::--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Why do you need a stairway? Couldn't you have just put the fortification on the tile where you have the stairway now? I'm also not sure why you need a turn as opposed to having the floodgate directly in line; i.e. {{qd|cols=7|~|`|╬|{{qd/ch{{!}}X{{!}}888|ccc}}|.|.|.}}
::::[[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:55, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::I believe you can't create a fortification from above, though I could be wrong. It doesn't cost anything to dig one extra z-level down to get yourself a tile with an open face front and back which fortifies up nicely. Also, I put the kink in the tunnel just to be paranoid -- I don't want things shooting fireballs down it. I'm not sure if a fireball can destroy a floodgate. Again, it didn't cost me anything to make it a touch more elaborate.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

::::Well, if I dug in from above, I could just use a non-retracting set of bars. Fortifications allow liquid to flow, but they slow it down. But I'm not digging at the top level of the pipe. I suppose I could just use a sacrificial non-magma-safe floodgate, set up the bars behind it, and then open it and let it melt.
::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:20, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

== Magma Ate My Wall ==
While digging my channel to a magma pipe, I came across a vein of Lignite which ran perpendicular to my channel. I mined it out, hauled the lignite over to my fortress, and then built some walls over the side passages. It's now less than a year later, and one of those wall-units is missing. Unless there's some way a fire imp or other magma creature can destroy walls, the magma must have melted the wall. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 07:12, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:Wasn't that wall a Lignite wall ? It may have burnt, then. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:46, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:Yes, it sounds like it was a liginite wall. Magma will ignite coke-bearing rock, this has been the case for a long time. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:56, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:: No, the wall was built from rock salt. All the lignite was hauled away, and as an economic stone, not a material choice I could have made by accident. The floor is still lignite though. Think that may have been a factor? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:58, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::That's possible, but I find it unlikely. Also, I misinterpreted what you meant by 'built a wall', didn't realize it was a construction. I thought it was a smoothed rock face. It's been a persisting question (at least in #df on synIRC) if magma will melt constructions not made of bauxite. You may have just answered that for us. Perhaps you could test by letting magma into a 5x5 room with one natural rock pillar in the middle, and a wall construction of the same type of stone? That'd answer the question once and for all, I think. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:11, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::I've had magma against some of my constructed walls for years and years without damage. A good thing too, I've got quarters on the other side! They're almost certainly basalt. I wouldn't rule out the vanishing wall being caused by a burning floor; lignite can burn for years before vanishing. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:14, 5 November 2008 (EST)
::::Interesting. It was probably the liginite floor, then, but that begs the question of how a burning floor could consume a wall; stone should be fire-safe. A really interesting situation, to be sure. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::Also -- as for 'not a material choice I could have made by accident', I've found my masons will happily convert expensive imported ores and flux into blocks if they decide your depot's closer than the nearest basalt. And once anything's blocked, it's useless but for constructions. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:39, 5 November 2008 (EST)

::::: @Corona: That's for a mason's workshop, though. When you build walls, you choose the specific rocks to build from. Although, I have to say that I've never had a mason use a rock from the restricted list.
::::: For clarity, here's an image capture. The east-west shaft was my original tunnel towards the magma pipe. Every mined-out tile north or south of that shaft was Lignite. However, the opening just below the cursor, where my missing wall is supposed to be, is listed as Rock Salt as well. This is because dwarves kept building that section of wall from the wrong side, and I had to deconstruct it and put it back up several times -- which kills our "burning lignite floor" theory. Hrm.....now that I think about it, I can't be sure that I did build that wall in the end. I can't remember if a dwarf ever built it from the correct side. I'll let you know if another wall section disappears.
[[Image:romeofalling1.GIF]]

--[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:54, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== Disambiguation ==

I see the term ''magma pipe'' and ''magma vent'' being used interchangeably. Do these terms mean the same thing? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:25, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:Basically, yes. Magma vents, however, are visible from the surface, whereas magma pipes are not. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:26, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Magma Vs. Sand ==

In a failed experiment with wooden screw pumps with magma proof blocks, I have discovered something horrible and intriguing. Magma/lava can burn it's way through sand, so now I have an above ground magma cistern half flooding back into the magma pipe I filled it from, and half into my underground workshops through 2 z-levels of sand flooring. I have picture proof too, but I have no idea how to upload pictures from my laptop to a wiki. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:"Upload file", toolbox, left side of this page.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Ah, thanks. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Do you mean it goes down z-levels, or does it just move across the sand? magma can normally move across anything except water, I think. --[[User:Destor|Destor]] 14:41, 11 November 2008 (EST)
:Vertically, through z-levels. It created a hole that wasn't there before through a sand floor, into my main hallway, and then through the floor there into my workshops and stockpiles. From there, it simply followed the path of least resistance down the stairs and into the living quarters (not shown). The magma seems to only tunnel through floor tiles that have no wall tile below them, which is understandable but I've never had this happen before. Though, admittedly I have never tried to create a lava cistern on top of sand before. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)
<gallery>
Image:DF-0.JPG|Above ground (sorry for large size despite jpeg compression)
Image:DF-1.JPG|1 z-level down (main hallway)
Image:DF-2.JPG|2 z-levels down (workshops and rock, bar, and wood stockpiles)
</gallery>

== Regarding Boatmurdered ==

I have this intense desire to flood the world in magma. (yes, I'm playing the 2D Dwarf Fortress. Sue me.) How did they get the magma onto the surface? Last I checked, pumps don't exist, sooo... --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 02:45, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:Channels and aqueducts... They'll transport any liquid anywhere. And bridges too!--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]]
::But magma's on the "Z-level" below. How's it supposed to get on the actual level of the elephants? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:50, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:::You're still thinking in 3D. Magma is "in" the tiles where the river is, and will be in the tiles where you dig a channel, and you want to get it in the tiles where the elephants are, by digging a channel from the magma river to the outside and "releasing" it from the channel using a floodgate. The miner who digs the part of the channel that connects it to the magma river itself might get killed, since they always stood ''in'' the channel square while digging it in the 2D version. Put a floodgate just beyond it before digging it out so you can shut off the flow, since you will make mistakes.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:36, 28 November 2008 (EST)
::::Yes, I realize I'm thinking in 3D. Exactly how does the magma get out of the channel and onto the ground? Because last I checked, fluids didn't do that naturally. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:44, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:::::That's just the way the 2D version works. Channel next to liquid = liquid now in channel. Tile at end of channel not floodgate (or other liquid stopper) = liquid now on ground. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:47, 28 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Read [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Channel#Game_mechanics Channel] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Irrigation#Controlled_flooding Irrigation] on the archive wiki. You have to play with channels and floodgates for a bit before it all makes sense, though. The 2D version tended to get real kludgy when it came to fluids. Try to get a farm going to understand the basics of the 2D channels, floodgates, and fluids.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:07, 28 November 2008 (EST)

== No little errors ==

I just made a discovery. There is nothing like small error in the terms of magma engineering. After attempting to make my lava moat, I accidentally dug channel one tile longer, than it should be. At first, it went good. But then, magma flowed over my wall and flooded entire fortress. Remember - no little errors. [[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 12:19, 30 November 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Magma

2008-11-30T17:19:02Z

SanDiego: No little errors