Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d Talk:Hatch cover

2009-01-31T19:45:42Z

Sharp:

can be made from wood at the carpenter's shop too

This should be merged with the other [[Hatch Cover]] topic - I didn't realise this one existed already as I was working from the [[Furniture]] category. [[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 04:45, 5 November 2007 (EST)
: Done. See [[DwarfFortressWiki:Community_Portal|Rule P]]. Old topic seemed to be a stub and is archived here:<blockquote>Constructed from [[stone]] (and perhaps other materials) at the [[Mason's workshop]]. Used to build a [[Floor Hatch|floor hatch]].</blockquote> --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 05:10, 5 November 2007 (EST)

== Cleaning up ==

I think this article should be merged with [[floor hatch]] into a single '''Hatch''' one (a bit like [[door]]). Currently, '''Hatch''' redirects to [[floor hatch]].--[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 07:26, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
:I've merged everything to ''here'', perhaps an admin can move to [[Hatch]] rather than cutting and pasting to there. [[User:Marasmusine|Marasmusine]] 06:29, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

== Destroyable? ==

Can floor hatches be destroyed? I'm assuming not, but will my otherwise nigh-impervious tower be destroyed if a dragon comes to town?

[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 18:17, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

== Not Trap Doors ==
One cannot make trap doors out of wall hatches since the pressure plate cannot be on the same tile. One could build a collapsing floor trap with [[support|supports]], but hatches wouldn't work.
==Inside/Outside?==
Can hatches be used to toggle an area between "outside/inside"? [[User:Sharp|Sharp]] 14:45, 31 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Hatch cover

2009-01-31T19:44:32Z

Sharp: Can hatches be used to toggle an area between "inside" and "outside"?

40d Talk:Dwarven economy

2009-01-27T18:05:27Z

Sharp: /* Are there any profits? */

1) Wages paid --- dwarves gain credit for tasks completed. Credit is either maintained or transferred into physical value when the dwarf in question claims coins.

2) Rent --- bedrooms have a rent assigned to them based on their room value. The rent schedule is unknown. How the dwarves physically pay the rent is unknown. If a dwarf cannot pay the rent an eviction notice is placed on the room. The specifics of eviction are unknown. Dwarves that cannot afford one of the available bedrooms will sleep in available barracks.

3) Shops --- Once the economy begins, shops may be constructed. There are several types of shops - clothing, general goods, exotic clothing and possibly others. A type of shop may not be specified; it seems to be selected randomly. Shops have an associated cost, which is assumed to be paid by the dwarf that takes control of the shop. Once a shop is owned, items will be moved to the shop corresponding to which type of shop it is. Dwarves then may buy items for the shop, presumably using the same credit system that may or may not correspond to actual physical coins.

4) Item cost - all physical items are given a cost, whether for sale or in a shop. It is unknown if dwarves pay a cost for an item picked up that was not for sale in a shop.

also - kids have combined wealth of their parents, which can lead to paris hilton-syndrome in DF - children with wealth of several thousand buying out the noble/admin rooms and owning shops filled with =giant cave spider silk dress= --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 04:07, 20 November 2007 (EST)

----

It seems that the dwarven economy is now triggered by the coming of a Baron /Baroness. I haven't seen it for myself but it's what I gather from the forums. There also seems to be a bug where all coins minted appear as the same coin type (e.g., copper, silver, and gold coins all appearing as silver) on the economy window. --[[User:Keizo|Keizo]]

Just got the dwarven economy started for the first time. The game is a bit tricky to play in wine. ^^;;. Anyway, since there isn't any page here yet, I'm sort of lost, so I've added what I already know so other folks will be at least a *little* less lost :-P

Typically a page will be expanded a lot more quickly if you actually already have some content on it,.Please expand! --[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] 19:48, 1 December 2007 (EST)

None of my legendary dwarves have an account in their status screen.
Does this mean that they are exempt from prices or something?--[[User:Pigbuster|Pigbuster]]
:They always have been.--[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 01:05, 6 December 2007 (EST)

== Wages ==

What is the deal with "- haulage being a major exception - "? Last time I checked there were some wages for item hauling, furniture hauling, food hauling,... on the in-game {{key|j}}{{key|m}}{{key|w}} wages info page. Of course a dwarf can spend a month hauling a rock to a stockpile and get his 1* for it, but a job of taking food from a stockpile and relocating it to an adjacent stockpile can yield a dwarf dozens of * in quite small period of time. Place 10-20 medium sized stockpiles accepting all furniture in a line and set them to take from each other in chain so that the first small stockpile is the closest to your workshops and your last large main furniture stockpile is the closest to your currently furnishing rooms. Watch your haulers' bank accounts sky-rocket.--[[User:Another|Another]] 05:24, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Who and whern/how can change wages percentage on first "Wages" screen? It's always 100% for me--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 06:53, 14 February 2008 (EST)
:one of the nobles can, but rarely does so (bookkeeper?)

== Soldiers ==
Will the soldiers pay for getting armor or weapons?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:10, 11 January 2008 (EST)
:No, they don't own them.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:11, 11 January 2008 (EST)

== No Coin Economy==

How does an economy work without any coins? Do they use pretend money or something?
:Every dfwarf starts an account in DwarfEcoBanc, and is always carrying his/her credit card. But if you will be stupid enough to give them money (like I did last time), they would prefer to use money instead of card. In case you don't get it: you don't want them to use money, really.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:59, 21 January 2008 (EST)

:It works just the same as in the Real Life. As opposed to the economy of the old, when coins were units of precious metals, with real actual value attached to them, currently all money is created as a credit from the central bank (which is paid by taking a new credit). Dwarves get credit from you for work they do, and you can pay it back by providing them with goods other dwarves produced (for another credit). For coins, you must mint actual metal. For going into infinite debt, you don't need anything, and you can never run out of it (gold bars go down to zero, debt goes to minus infinity). But without inflation, it doesn't really hurt in the long run like it does in the Real Life.

== How is this a feature? ==
I dig the realism and all, but the only effect the economy has had on my fortress is that my hard working dwarves now can't afford the rooms they've been sleeping in for the past ten years, while my nobles and champions (junta?) live in solid gold mansions. I went straight to the .ini and turned economy off. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 18:49, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:Yeah, well, the pricing of those rooms doesn't work by supply and demand for some reason, they have fixed cost. But still I kind of like the idea of an economy, and it seems a bit odd to "strongly recommend" that you shouldn't mint coins etc. I haven't even seen them hauling any of those coins. --[[User:Magirot|Magirot]] 09:18, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

It's ironic that without coins, the economy actives better. Kinda like using credit cards instead of coins (Maybe a hint to the government to stop making coins?!) --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:17, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Economy Trigger(s) ==
We know what triggers the economy, but what does having an active economy trigger? The most obvious is nobles, but there are a couple other things I've noticed. First, whether it's related to the economy or not, my only fortress that's ever been under siege has had an active economy, while my others that only get random goblin attacks did not. Likewise that fortress is my only fortress that has gotten megabeast attacks. It may or may not be related, as most of my fortresses before it didn't get as big as it is. (80 or so highest vs 110) --[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 22:09, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
:Both of sieges in my current fortress (40c) were prior to the economy starting, so I don't think the economy is causal. I think it has to do with population and wealth. More dwarves attract more attention and the pickings are better with more wealth. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:02, 8 September 2008 (EDT)
I don't believe its a trigger for anything. My current fortress has been besieged five times and attacked by a Dragon. All this happened before I unlocked the economy.--[[User:Max Dougwell|Max Dougwell]] 07:08, 3 December 2008 (EST)

== Starving ==
"Dwarves will not starve because they cannot buy food; they just choose whatever's cheapest." - Is this true? It seems that dwarves whitout money die from either hunger or thirst. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 14:16, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

:I do believe eg plump helmets are 1* per unit, they only need to move a couple rocks ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 10:30, 20 June 2008 (EDT)

== Setting economy to NO (ini file) stop immigration ? ==

Hello, because I really dont like economy (I want to assign bed manually !), I've desactivated it in the .ini files... but now, I haven't receive any migrants for 2 years, and my population is slowly reducing 'cause of the accidentals death.
Anyone know if desactiving the economy (just before the arrival of the baron which trigger economy) also desactive immigration ?

Again, sorry for my imperfect english. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 08:59, 26 April 2008 (EDT)
:caravan reports summon migrants, large numbers of deaths or lack of wealth stop it

== Childrens' accounts ==

"Normal" children are really wealthy - they sleep in rooms for nobles, eat roasts and buy golden things. I heard that they have combined wealth of their both parents. It's pretty crazy.
On the other hand noble children... My baroness has a son, who has 3 (yes, 3) monies on his account...
Isn't it really strange? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 06:52, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
:His parents has no money, really. So, he has only three pennies he got hardworking in the fields, harvesting...--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:04, 16 June 2008 (EDT)
It appears Legendary Dwarves still get paid, despite being able to take whatever they please. My child of two Legendary Dwarves has 256 in her account. Either that or she's doing odd jobs when I'm not watching.--[[User:Max Dougwell|Max Dougwell]] 07:13, 3 December 2008 (EST)

::That may be leftover from before the parents were legendary. I've seen children of two legendary dwarves maintain a constant or decreasing cash supply following the ascension of the second parent to legendary, despite abundant in-profession work for both parents which should rapidly provide a huge influx of cash. I can only conclude legendary dwarves no longer earn money. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:47, 29 December 2008 (EST)

== Necessary for nobles? ==

It's currently not very clear whether or not the economy needs to be enabled in order for nobles to continue arriving. For instance, the hammerer, barons, etc. Is there any confirmed knowledge of which nobles will or won't come depending on whether or not the economy is enabled in the init file? [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 22:09, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

:All right, a friend of mine just confirmed through play that such nobles, even the tax collector, will still come even with the economy disabled. He's got a count (and consort), hammerer, tax collector, dungeon master, and philosopher (at least those are the ones I know of). [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 04:25, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

== Effects of turning it off, once it's on? ==

Changing ECONOMY to NO in the init.txt file after the economy has kicked in doesn't seem to keep dwarves from spending already-earned credit at shops. (I haven't seen them paying for drink, so it may be that food and drink are now free; I'm not sure, though, because I haven't yet watched them pay for drinks while the economy is turned on, so I don't know when that happens.) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 17:00, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

== Effect of turning it on, once it's off? ==

If you turn the economy off and get the tax collector, baron, etc... what happens when you turn it back on? Does the economy start back up, or do you only get one shot at it? I don't think I want the economy but if I miss the opportunity to ever turn it on, then it becomes a tough choice. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 02:22, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Tips for living with economy? ==

I just read a suggestion on the forum, and was going to add it to a list of economy-survival tips, but there doesn't seem to be one. [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=29016.msg373478#msg373478 here's the forum post]. Shouldn't there be such a page? [[User:Solarshado|Solarshado]] 21:57, 25 December 2008 (EST)
:There's a couple tricks for this. The casino mentioned there, triangle stockpiles (3 stone stockpiles that are all taking from eachother, making constant hauling work), etc. However, everything like this is classifiable as an exploit since if you put it in the context of an actual economy it would cause gigantic economic inflation and currency devaluation almost overnight. Really that's all you're doing with techniques like this; you're devaluing what a single ☼ means until it's basically nothing, and taking advantage of the fact that the DF engine doesn't currently have a way to adjust for inflation.

:Really, living with economy in a legit, as-intended manner is just making sure there are enough meaningful jobs to do. Growing [[dimple cup]]s and starting a dyeing attachment to a fully blown clothing industry can employ dozens of dwarves around the clock using only the caravans as resources (for importing cloth and the appropriate volume). Skilled work like sewing clothes, dying cloth, sewing leather/cloth images, etc all give 20☼ or more for a single job. A dwarf can afford a very nice apartment and very nice food, with enough money left over to go shopping, if they have a skilled-labor job to do.

:Alternatively, you can just provide a way to become legendary easily. Screw pumps connected to nothing will make Pump Operators legendary pretty quickly, especially if other duties are minimized.

:Anyway, it might be worth adding this as a few notes, but I'm not sure there's enough to say to make a full section about it. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 23:03, 25 December 2008 (EST)

::Its hard to talk about exploiting an economy which actually operates under an absolute theory of value rather than supply and demand. Once you assume an absolute theory of value as your model of economics, inflation simply cannot exist and the concept doesn't even make sense.

::Ie, meaningless hauling jobs -> inflation is only an exploit if the price of goods fluctuates because of supply and demand. Or you can just look at it as making dwarves do non-productive wage-paying jobs compensates for the unavoidable 'exploit' that is the stupidity of there being abundantly available rooms of quality X remaining at a stupidly high value instead of having their price become more affordable in the absence of sufficient demand for them at their current price.

::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:44, 29 December 2008 (EST)

== Are there any profits? ==
Is there any reason NOT to turn economy off, other than the extra challenge it creates (plus happy thoughts from shopping for those who can afford that)?
It looks that the original communism the Dwarves start with, serves them much better, especially that there seems to be little special profit from very happy dwarves, while there's a lot of trouble for the unhappy ones, and economy seems to create more of both extremes.
Also, slaughtering of the noble or the tax collector won't reverse to the no-economy, will it?
[[User:Sharp|Sharp]] 11:43, 26 January 2009 (EST)

:How can there be profit in a system of absolute values? What do you mean by 'profit'? The only profit in the game is the value added by labor, which isn't really profit but the value of the labor itself. Basically, the game operates under some rather strange economic assumptions (an unholy marriage of the labor theory of value and mercantilism). So no, there is absolutely no benefit to the dwarven economy, especially as its hardly worth the name economy. (Economics is about differential rarity and preferences, neither of which the game's economic engine takes into account). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:17, 27 January 2009 (EST)
::I think you misunderstood me, I didn't mean "Profit" by economic meaning, I meant "changes in the mechanics of the game the player benefits from", "Profit" as opposed to "Trouble". [[User:Sharp|Sharp]] 13:05, 27 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Captured creatures

2009-01-26T18:04:45Z

Sharp: /* STOP HIM!!! */

== Taming ==
It looks like animals that killed any "good" creatures (such as elves or humans) can't be tamed (will go rampart as soon as they are released from cages).
I've got my whole fortress sealed off, a dragon came, after being hit by few stone traps and killing whole elven caravan, it fell into a cage trap. I tamed him (I do have a Dungeon Master) but when I tried to chain him before the entrance he started to kill dwarfs as soon as he was released from cage. I'm 100% sure it didn't kill any dwarfs (only a war dog) before falling in to a trap, and I'm certain it killed at least one elf. I'm using 27.176.38c, not modded in any way. --[[User:Tomato|Tomato]] 02:58, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Just to clarify a little here, it doesnt seem that killing tame animals will trigger untamability, but if Tomato's experiences are anything to go by, watch out if other civilized entities have been slain. (I am reasonably sure that tame animals are ok, by an experimental process of de-stealthing a GCS by throwing a dog into its cave, taming it, and letting it wander around in my base for a month or so waiting for the death messages) --[[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] 10:30, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
== magma ==
Initial questions: will cages melt and its inhabitants be killed if magma is released onto it and the cage is non-magma-resistant?
:Yes, I burnt a bunch of useless donkeys and kittens this way. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 12:32, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

== breed in cages?==
I've done the cages to massive herds idea, but it doesn't work. They'll give birth just fine while in the cage (and the babies *won't* be locked in the cage, btw) but I've gone three years without a birth until a couple seasons after I released them all to presumably breed again. If you ask me, the ideal herd would be contained in a pit that's had access walled off, since (I believe) pathfinding lag isn't a factor when it's a wall, not a locked door.

Yea, I'm feeling a bit lazy right now, or I'd have edited this stuff into the article myself. Feel free to add it in and remove this, assuming I haven't just ended up in some weird situation where they just happen to have been pregnant for 3 years... --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:56, 10 January 2008 (EST)
: I am not exactly sure, but i think both a cow and a dog have given birth inside a cage after being in there for more than a year. So i toned down the statement in the article.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 10:02, 27 February 2008 (EST)

Actually, the babies born in cages thing is true, but it works this way: the baby is born in the cage but is not ''assigned'' in the cage. So when it's born, a dwarf will immediately rush to free it. (Tried this by building a cage behind forbidden doors and the baby remained in the cage.)

By the way, how do you put a timestamp behind your edit? This timestamp below I have manually typed in. --[[User:ShunterAlhena]] 09:12, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:use <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> or the button that looks like a signature ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 08:04, 11 January 2008 (EST)

== STOP HIM!!! ==

How am I supposed to put a captured goblin in an arena without letting the little bastard go? [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 00:05, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:A lever based enter/exit door for the arena so you can lock it, His combatent will probably have to be the one to let him go in that case. Or use a pit of some kind. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 04:01, 25 January 2008 (EST)
My problem more lies with transporting the goblins from an animal stockpile to my arena/pit, which simply had the goblin released from his cage. [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 04:32, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:Is there a problem with building a cage using the cage the gobbo's in? As for releasing... you do know levers work on cages too, right? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 05:37, 25 January 2008 (EST)
Just to clarify, I have a problem transporting the goblin, not releasing him. When I attempted to move him, the goblin was released in the animal stockpile. I'm not sure how to specify build the cage that the goblin is using, but that would probably work, yes. [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 05:52, 25 January 2008 (EST)
::You would {{k|b}}uild ca{{k|j}}e (yes its j to build a cage) [[User:Jikor|Jikor]] 06:51, 25 January 2008 (EST)

IIRC, in order to assign a creature to an existing cage, it first has to be taken out of the cage it's in and carried over to the new cage. However, the dwarf moving it in this way may suddenly realise they are carrying a dangerous 'thing' and drop it. This can be avoided by building the cage directly, which does not require taking the creature out. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:59, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:With the current (.38c) version I have noticed that transporting goblin soldiers is fine, the poor goblin just trails along and gets moved while goblin thieves will escape when tried to be moved. Perhaps it has something to do with sneaking vs not-sneaking. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 00:06, 10 April 2008 (EDT)
:I know for certian this behavior held in 0.23.130.23a. I imagine it probably hasn't changed since 0.27.169.33g. I tagged the article with 0.23.130.23a, so if someone knows better, please change it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 08:09, 25 January 2008 (EST)
Whenever I build the cage, the dwarves just bring an empty one. I still haven't figured out a way to build exactly the cage the goblins are in. [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 14:11, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:{{k|b}}uild menu -> ca{{k|j}}e [sic], then press e{{k|x}}pand list to see the indivudial cages with quality levels instead of a broader category list. Pick the one that's called "Goblin Cage(''materialname'')" and the dwarves will construct the cage with the gobbo still inside. Then link it up to a lever, station your executioner in a locked room with it, and yank the lever to start your pitfight. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 10:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)
::No more reusable method? I mean, for next fight the cage has to be dismantled, then new cage built and connected to a lever. I could imagine "dumping" the goblin right onto the cage (set as cage trap?) on the arena (short pit/pond shaft right above) should work?

== RE: Arenas section ==

Is it actually possible to strip the weapons and armour off a captured creature as suggested here? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 11:15, 26 January 2008 (EST)

: Yep, Check out the talk page for cages, under "Captured thieves" someone should probably integrate that info this article. --[[User:The Flying Febe|The Flying Febe]] 23:20, 3 February 2008 (EST)

== Sentry Animals? ==

Can tamed creatures be used as sentries? Or would I have to have a dwarf? 
--[[User:Lordmick134|Lordmick134]] 22:43, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

:Yes. Build a chain or rope and attach a tame creature to it, and it will have a good chance of spotting any nearby thieves or other sneaking creatures. I usually set up 2-3 chained critters in alcoves along my entry halls for that purpose. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 02:55, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

::Can caged animals see ambushers farther away than the 8 tiles adjacent to them? I figure they probably don't (in which case they're still plenty useful anyways), but it'd make it a lot easier to cover large areas if I don't have to put a cage every third tile. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 20:08, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

No. The best way is to set up some high-traffic areas, and make sure all your valuables are indoors and that any potential ambushers have to get past your security. For example;
:xxx
:xOx
:xxx

If you put your roped animal in the middle they will have access to all 8 tiles around them with very little chance of an enemy bypassing it. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:09, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:I was afraid of that. Ambushers getting into the fortress isn't a problem because I've already done what you describe (and racked up a hell of a kill count in the process =P ). I was just hoping for a better way to help keep ambushers away from stuff like road-builders and caravans that my Corridor of Doom can't protect. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:45, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Animal Training Labor ==

The article said only a dwarf with Animal Training activated will release animals. I had a dwarf releasing and caging animals with no labors active, except pump operating. Using 38c. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 15:31, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

:I don't know where it says that, so I'll leave it to you to fix it. You're correct; the article is wrong. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:48, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

::I already fixed it --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 20:31, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

== Capturing friends ==

Does anyone know of a way to capture friendly entities? Elves would be awesome but I was thinking more like my own dwarves, without makind them go berserk (I'm also trying to figure out whether or not it counts as lowering population, and if not what happens if you sell them?). --[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 20:00, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

:I think that making them go to sleep on a cage trap (such as by locking them in a 1x1 room with said trap in it) will do it.[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 20:58, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

:: Ah yes probably, didn't think of that...thanks! Maybe we should include it if it's veryfied? There's lots of fun to be had with captured dwarves and humans/elves I think. --[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 21:31, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

:: It was pretty hard but I managed to catch one! The trick is to dig a 3-4 z-levels hole with a hatch over it (or bridge, etc), and have a cage at the bottom. Draft someone and make him stand there while someone pulls the lever. 2 dead dwarves (and the one in the cage gravely wounded I suspect) but it was worth it. The 1x1 room thing didn't work, as they tended to starve before they actually fainted...or maybe I didn't wait long enough? More testing to come and then maybe I can include that in the article. --[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 22:24, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

:: The dwarf was automatically released and helped by others... I guess the only way to keep dwarves locked is to make them go berserk...

== Slavery? ==

Is it possible to sell caged entities? I once tried to sell a caged Goblin (Pedogob, I think it was) to Dwarven Merchants, and the Goblin was released from its cage when the cage was set down in the Depot. Did I do something wrong, or is it just not possible? --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]]

: Bug #41 (or was it 40?). Sometimes (not always) a dwarf will take only the cage without its content to the depot. --[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 11:02, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

== "This can be avoided by building the cage the animal is in" ==

Caveat — When an animal is captured via a cage trap and then assigned to an existing cage, the dwarf moving the animal will tend to let it go. This can be avoided by building the cage the animal is in.v0.27.176.38c

Can we get some clarification on the last sentence? [[User:SwallowedSpear|SwallowedSpear]] 18:56, 11 January 2009 (EST)

:In DF, building an object can (and often does) refer to placing it as a building. EG: "I have 20 limonite tables for my dining hall, but I didn't build them yet". Does that clear it up? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:18, 11 January 2009 (EST)

::Well, does it mean that if, say, a goblin gets caught in a *Lead cage*, you should "build" that same *Lead Cage* where you want it to go? [[User:SwallowedSpear|SwallowedSpear]] 19:49, 12 January 2009 (EST)

:::Yes. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:07, 12 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Dwarven economy

2009-01-26T17:05:35Z

Sharp: /* No Coin Economy */

40d Talk:Dwarven economy

2009-01-26T16:43:42Z

Sharp: == Are there any profits? ==

1) Wages paid --- dwarves gain credit for tasks completed. Credit is either maintained or transferred into physical value when the dwarf in question claims coins.

2) Rent --- bedrooms have a rent assigned to them based on their room value. The rent schedule is unknown. How the dwarves physically pay the rent is unknown. If a dwarf cannot pay the rent an eviction notice is placed on the room. The specifics of eviction are unknown. Dwarves that cannot afford one of the available bedrooms will sleep in available barracks.

3) Shops --- Once the economy begins, shops may be constructed. There are several types of shops - clothing, general goods, exotic clothing and possibly others. A type of shop may not be specified; it seems to be selected randomly. Shops have an associated cost, which is assumed to be paid by the dwarf that takes control of the shop. Once a shop is owned, items will be moved to the shop corresponding to which type of shop it is. Dwarves then may buy items for the shop, presumably using the same credit system that may or may not correspond to actual physical coins.

4) Item cost - all physical items are given a cost, whether for sale or in a shop. It is unknown if dwarves pay a cost for an item picked up that was not for sale in a shop.

also - kids have combined wealth of their parents, which can lead to paris hilton-syndrome in DF - children with wealth of several thousand buying out the noble/admin rooms and owning shops filled with =giant cave spider silk dress= --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 04:07, 20 November 2007 (EST)

----

It seems that the dwarven economy is now triggered by the coming of a Baron /Baroness. I haven't seen it for myself but it's what I gather from the forums. There also seems to be a bug where all coins minted appear as the same coin type (e.g., copper, silver, and gold coins all appearing as silver) on the economy window. --[[User:Keizo|Keizo]]

Just got the dwarven economy started for the first time. The game is a bit tricky to play in wine. ^^;;. Anyway, since there isn't any page here yet, I'm sort of lost, so I've added what I already know so other folks will be at least a *little* less lost :-P

Typically a page will be expanded a lot more quickly if you actually already have some content on it,.Please expand! --[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] 19:48, 1 December 2007 (EST)

None of my legendary dwarves have an account in their status screen.
Does this mean that they are exempt from prices or something?--[[User:Pigbuster|Pigbuster]]
:They always have been.--[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 01:05, 6 December 2007 (EST)

== Wages ==

What is the deal with "- haulage being a major exception - "? Last time I checked there were some wages for item hauling, furniture hauling, food hauling,... on the in-game {{key|j}}{{key|m}}{{key|w}} wages info page. Of course a dwarf can spend a month hauling a rock to a stockpile and get his 1* for it, but a job of taking food from a stockpile and relocating it to an adjacent stockpile can yield a dwarf dozens of * in quite small period of time. Place 10-20 medium sized stockpiles accepting all furniture in a line and set them to take from each other in chain so that the first small stockpile is the closest to your workshops and your last large main furniture stockpile is the closest to your currently furnishing rooms. Watch your haulers' bank accounts sky-rocket.--[[User:Another|Another]] 05:24, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Who and whern/how can change wages percentage on first "Wages" screen? It's always 100% for me--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 06:53, 14 February 2008 (EST)
:one of the nobles can, but rarely does so (bookkeeper?)

== Soldiers ==
Will the soldiers pay for getting armor or weapons?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:10, 11 January 2008 (EST)
:No, they don't own them.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:11, 11 January 2008 (EST)

== No Coin Economy==

How does an economy work without any coins? Do they use pretend money or something?
:Every dfwarf starts an account in DwarfEcoBanc, and is always carrying his/her credit card. But if you will be stupid enough to give them money (like I did last time), they would prefer to use money instead of card. In case you don't get it: you don't want them to use money, really.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:59, 21 January 2008 (EST)

== How is this a feature? ==
I dig the realism and all, but the only effect the economy has had on my fortress is that my hard working dwarves now can't afford the rooms they've been sleeping in for the past ten years, while my nobles and champions (junta?) live in solid gold mansions. I went straight to the .ini and turned economy off. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 18:49, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:Yeah, well, the pricing of those rooms doesn't work by supply and demand for some reason, they have fixed cost. But still I kind of like the idea of an economy, and it seems a bit odd to "strongly recommend" that you shouldn't mint coins etc. I haven't even seen them hauling any of those coins. --[[User:Magirot|Magirot]] 09:18, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

It's ironic that without coins, the economy actives better. Kinda like using credit cards instead of coins (Maybe a hint to the government to stop making coins?!) --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:17, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Economy Trigger(s) ==
We know what triggers the economy, but what does having an active economy trigger? The most obvious is nobles, but there are a couple other things I've noticed. First, whether it's related to the economy or not, my only fortress that's ever been under siege has had an active economy, while my others that only get random goblin attacks did not. Likewise that fortress is my only fortress that has gotten megabeast attacks. It may or may not be related, as most of my fortresses before it didn't get as big as it is. (80 or so highest vs 110) --[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 22:09, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
:Both of sieges in my current fortress (40c) were prior to the economy starting, so I don't think the economy is causal. I think it has to do with population and wealth. More dwarves attract more attention and the pickings are better with more wealth. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:02, 8 September 2008 (EDT)
I don't believe its a trigger for anything. My current fortress has been besieged five times and attacked by a Dragon. All this happened before I unlocked the economy.--[[User:Max Dougwell|Max Dougwell]] 07:08, 3 December 2008 (EST)

== Starving ==
"Dwarves will not starve because they cannot buy food; they just choose whatever's cheapest." - Is this true? It seems that dwarves whitout money die from either hunger or thirst. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 14:16, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

:I do believe eg plump helmets are 1* per unit, they only need to move a couple rocks ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 10:30, 20 June 2008 (EDT)

== Setting economy to NO (ini file) stop immigration ? ==

Hello, because I really dont like economy (I want to assign bed manually !), I've desactivated it in the .ini files... but now, I haven't receive any migrants for 2 years, and my population is slowly reducing 'cause of the accidentals death.
Anyone know if desactiving the economy (just before the arrival of the baron which trigger economy) also desactive immigration ?

Again, sorry for my imperfect english. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 08:59, 26 April 2008 (EDT)
:caravan reports summon migrants, large numbers of deaths or lack of wealth stop it

== Childrens' accounts ==

"Normal" children are really wealthy - they sleep in rooms for nobles, eat roasts and buy golden things. I heard that they have combined wealth of their both parents. It's pretty crazy.
On the other hand noble children... My baroness has a son, who has 3 (yes, 3) monies on his account...
Isn't it really strange? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 06:52, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
:His parents has no money, really. So, he has only three pennies he got hardworking in the fields, harvesting...--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:04, 16 June 2008 (EDT)
It appears Legendary Dwarves still get paid, despite being able to take whatever they please. My child of two Legendary Dwarves has 256 in her account. Either that or she's doing odd jobs when I'm not watching.--[[User:Max Dougwell|Max Dougwell]] 07:13, 3 December 2008 (EST)

::That may be leftover from before the parents were legendary. I've seen children of two legendary dwarves maintain a constant or decreasing cash supply following the ascension of the second parent to legendary, despite abundant in-profession work for both parents which should rapidly provide a huge influx of cash. I can only conclude legendary dwarves no longer earn money. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:47, 29 December 2008 (EST)

== Necessary for nobles? ==

It's currently not very clear whether or not the economy needs to be enabled in order for nobles to continue arriving. For instance, the hammerer, barons, etc. Is there any confirmed knowledge of which nobles will or won't come depending on whether or not the economy is enabled in the init file? [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 22:09, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

:All right, a friend of mine just confirmed through play that such nobles, even the tax collector, will still come even with the economy disabled. He's got a count (and consort), hammerer, tax collector, dungeon master, and philosopher (at least those are the ones I know of). [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 04:25, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

== Effects of turning it off, once it's on? ==

Changing ECONOMY to NO in the init.txt file after the economy has kicked in doesn't seem to keep dwarves from spending already-earned credit at shops. (I haven't seen them paying for drink, so it may be that food and drink are now free; I'm not sure, though, because I haven't yet watched them pay for drinks while the economy is turned on, so I don't know when that happens.) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 17:00, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

== Effect of turning it on, once it's off? ==

If you turn the economy off and get the tax collector, baron, etc... what happens when you turn it back on? Does the economy start back up, or do you only get one shot at it? I don't think I want the economy but if I miss the opportunity to ever turn it on, then it becomes a tough choice. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 02:22, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Tips for living with economy? ==

I just read a suggestion on the forum, and was going to add it to a list of economy-survival tips, but there doesn't seem to be one. [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=29016.msg373478#msg373478 here's the forum post]. Shouldn't there be such a page? [[User:Solarshado|Solarshado]] 21:57, 25 December 2008 (EST)
:There's a couple tricks for this. The casino mentioned there, triangle stockpiles (3 stone stockpiles that are all taking from eachother, making constant hauling work), etc. However, everything like this is classifiable as an exploit since if you put it in the context of an actual economy it would cause gigantic economic inflation and currency devaluation almost overnight. Really that's all you're doing with techniques like this; you're devaluing what a single ☼ means until it's basically nothing, and taking advantage of the fact that the DF engine doesn't currently have a way to adjust for inflation.

:Really, living with economy in a legit, as-intended manner is just making sure there are enough meaningful jobs to do. Growing [[dimple cup]]s and starting a dyeing attachment to a fully blown clothing industry can employ dozens of dwarves around the clock using only the caravans as resources (for importing cloth and the appropriate volume). Skilled work like sewing clothes, dying cloth, sewing leather/cloth images, etc all give 20☼ or more for a single job. A dwarf can afford a very nice apartment and very nice food, with enough money left over to go shopping, if they have a skilled-labor job to do.

:Alternatively, you can just provide a way to become legendary easily. Screw pumps connected to nothing will make Pump Operators legendary pretty quickly, especially if other duties are minimized.

:Anyway, it might be worth adding this as a few notes, but I'm not sure there's enough to say to make a full section about it. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 23:03, 25 December 2008 (EST)

::Its hard to talk about exploiting an economy which actually operates under an absolute theory of value rather than supply and demand. Once you assume an absolute theory of value as your model of economics, inflation simply cannot exist and the concept doesn't even make sense.

::Ie, meaningless hauling jobs -> inflation is only an exploit if the price of goods fluctuates because of supply and demand. Or you can just look at it as making dwarves do non-productive wage-paying jobs compensates for the unavoidable 'exploit' that is the stupidity of there being abundantly available rooms of quality X remaining at a stupidly high value instead of having their price become more affordable in the absence of sufficient demand for them at their current price.

::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:44, 29 December 2008 (EST)

== Are there any profits? ==
Is there any reason NOT to turn economy off, other than the extra challenge it creates (plus happy thoughts from shopping for those who can afford that)?
It looks that the original communism the Dwarves start with, serves them much better, especially that there seems to be little special profit from very happy dwarves, while there's a lot of trouble for the unhappy ones, and economy seems to create more of both extremes.
Also, slaughtering of the noble or the tax collector won't reverse to the no-economy, will it?
[[User:Sharp|Sharp]] 11:43, 26 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Losing

2009-01-26T15:14:58Z

Sharp: /* Starvation */

" if you dig a hole in a wall diagonally to a water source, water can come spurting out even without you receiving a warning about damp stone." Is this true anymore? The dev notes for today's version (November 1st) mentioned making squares touching water diagonally get the damp marker as well. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 15:51, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

== 26 directions ==

26 directions? Really? I've been digging out tiles UNDER bodies of water trapped in rock, much less diagonal to them along the z-axis, and I haven't run into any flooding problems yet.--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 18:44, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:If you dig a tunnel underneath a body of water, you retain the ceiling overhead. If you were to remove this ceiling (e.g. by digging a ramp or stairway upwards) then the water would certainly flow.

::It would, except digging a ramp doesn't remove the ceiling...in fact it's impossible to dig upwards into water. You can't designate anything on the water tile above, and nothing you do below removes the ceiling...I tried in vain, and was sorely dissapointed. 'Specially since Toady did it one of his movies. Let me know if you get it to work, though. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:10, 6 November 2007 (EST)

:::You can currently ramp up into a water source and have it release the water down in version v0.27.169.33g. --[[User:Stravitch|Stravitch]] 16:39, 23 January 2008 (EST)

:::Build an upward (or an up/down) staircase on a level below and designate a downward staircase on the level above. Downward staircase is essentially a modification of the floor (ceiling) into a hole with stairs. Water doesn't flow in 16 up/down+horizontal directions (doesn't flow up+horizontal under pressure). Be warned that digging directly below a lake or a river is safe despite "dump stone" warning but digging into stone directly below an aquafier is NOT safe.--[[User:Another|Another]] 02:35, 4 December 2007 (EST)

:::Water flows in only 10 directions: the eight horizontal directions, straight up, and straight down. Someone should edit the article page.[[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 12:08, 23 January 2008 (EST)
::::Done, but don't hesitate to edit pages if you see something wrong :) people can always reedit them if they disagree ;) --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 16:13, 23 January 2008 (EST)

== Losing is fun ==
What would you say to moving the article to [[fun]] and making this one a redirect? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 18:29, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:That would be so funny! Don't know if it would gel with the rules, though. --[[User:Tarsier|Tarsier]] 19:53, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::Redirected fun to here. ;) --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 14:12, 6 November 2007 (EST)

== Starvation ==
According to the starvation section you can gather plants if you dont have soil to farm on, but as far as i know plants only grow above soil layers [[User:Thatguyyaknow|Thatguyyaknow]] 08:57, 19 January 2008 (EST)

:If you make rock muddy, you can grow on top of it. [[User:Calculus|Calculus]] 15:16, 25 August 2008 (EDT)
::But if you don't have soil to farm on, you don't have plants to gather either. And getting the soil muddy can take far too long, especially early on. --[[User:Sharp|Sharp]] 10:14, 26 January 2009 (EST)

== Dehydration ==
What's that about "an indoor basin or water tower" ? How do you do that? --[[User:Keesto|Keesto]] 15:17, 6 September 2008 (EDT)
:Ditto. How do you "collect all the water before it evaporates"? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 06:49, 22 November 2008 (EST)
::Dig out an area under a body of water, then poke a hole that lets the water flow into it.--[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 13:18, 22 November 2008 (EST)

== Old Age ==

Does anybody know if dwarves can die of old age? or do they all just keep living forever?
:According to the raws, dwarves have a lifespan of 160-200 years. So if you play for a ''really'' long time... --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 12:19, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
::How old are your starting dwarves? Do they start at a certain "matured" age, or are they for all intents and purposes abnormally large babies? --[[User:Stryc9fuego|Stryc9fuego]] 10:00, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:I've had a few dogs die at around the five-year mark (these were ones I brought to the fortress when embarking). Not sure what that spells for dwarves, but it does show that the mechanics are in place for creatures dying of old age during play.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:51, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

== Volcanic Death ==

Insofar as I can tell, the [[Losing#Volcanic Death|Volcanic Death]] section seems to be essentially fabrication as of v40d. I've never seen a volcano erupt, and doors are utterly invulnerable to being melted or set on fire when closed, if memory serves. Also for some reason I suspect that obsidian doesn't melt in lava, although I could be imagining that one. Comments?--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 18:02, 2 January 2009 (EST)
:Closed doors don't melt, unless something changed in the last five or so seconds. I regularly use doors to hold back magma, and have a basalt door doing so in my current fort. Obsidian stones do melt in lava, however. It's possible that you've never seen a volcano erupt because you've only had a magma vent and not a volcano, because as far as I know they aren't the same thing.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 20:38, 2 January 2009 (EST)
::Oh, that's right. Forgot about that. Though I do expect it'll be changing eventually. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:37, 2 January 2009 (EST)

::Okay, yes, apparently I was hallucinating that obsidian didn't melt in lava. Having specifically hunted down volcanoes to attempt to build fortresses in on several occasions, I'm reasonably sure that eruptions haven't been implemented yet unless I'm very lucky or eruptions are very uncommon. Unless the comments that Toady intends to increase the dangerousness of volcanoes are way out of date, it's not actually been implemented yet.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 15:12, 3 January 2009 (EST)

:::Well, they do refill, maybe that's what he meant? I do still hope he'll make them erupt, though. But it's easy enough to simulate an eruption - just channel the rim. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:23, 4 January 2009 (EST)

:::I, too, relish the challenge of building magma forges in a region that occasionally fills with high-pressure magma. Either a lot of fun when you get it right, or a lot of [[fun]] when you get it wrong.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 07:46, 5 January 2009 (EST)

:::There is still the bottomless pit bug where a large amount of magma spawns above a bottomless pit. I have experienced it my self. This will cause a large amount of that magma to flow over the edges of the pit and kill nearby creatures. It also will magma purge almost anything inside the pit, including lighting coal and lignite on fire.--[[User:i2amroy|i2amroy]] 13, January 2009

::IIRC, the only case of volcanoes "erupting" was when magma refills were first implemented and DF was unable to judge the correct height to refill magma to in saves from older versions. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:08, 20 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Ramp

2009-01-26T14:18:28Z

Sharp: /* Wagon torque / horsepower? */

redirect slope to this place?
took a while for me to find this.
helps in making traps and controlling movements.
thank god things can't fly...i think.
oh right and i don't know how to do whatever. redirect.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 17:22, 30 June 2008 (EDT)

:Yeah, things can totally fly. Angrystalk the Giant Bat, I know you're out there, come join your brothers in my cages! ---[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 20:02, 30 June 2008 (EDT)

====Downward Ramp====
I am in my digging designation menu and I don't see an option to dig a ramp down? If I want to do that do I need to use stairs to get down, then construct ramps up? Then replace the stairs with ramps? --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 12:21, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

:One thing you can do is to dig one tile further than the ramp shall be, and dig a channel there.
:Then, your miners are able to dig from there an upward ramp on the level below:
:(side view)
<pre>
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
cXXXXXXXXX Level Z c (c)hannel here at first
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX>______XXXX Level Z-1 > then place an upward ramp here
</pre>
:If anyone is able to explain this better, fell free to edit.--[[User:Doub|Doub]]
::I am going to load up a different game and try this out. :) I don't have anything built at Z-1 yet so I hope I can dig the ramp from higher up.
::Ok so this was simpler then I thought I simply changed the Z level one lower and designated ups. No channels, no stairs, just go one lower and designate the up. --[[User:Ehertlein|Ehertlein]] 13:57, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
:::Forget that complicated process - to dig a downward ramp, simply move the screen down one z-level and designate an upward ramp. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:56, 3 September 2008 (EDT)
::::Indeed, you are right. How simple! Thx. --[[User:Doub|Doub]] 10:44, 4 September 2008 (EDT)
:: Quirk: if you designate a downward stairway, then a ramp instead of an upward stairway on the level below, the finished product will be a ramp. A bit of strangeness, I saw it on the forums, tried it myself, it worked and a stuck miner rescued himself, leaving only a ramp behind. Version 40d. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 18:39, 9 January 2009 (EST)

== Current Oddities caused by ramp? ==

I'm gonna upload a new map on DFMA, Tongsgate. The savefile will be available. I'm having an oddity with a sealed artificial lake with a ramp in it (for transportation. It has a current just like a river. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]]

:Speaking of ramp oddities, mine saved my dwarves life. I had a proficient swimmer dwarf fall into a river building a channel, and he just sat there being pushed with the current. With a little clever manipulation, I shoved him into 1/7 water quickly and had him build a ramp to the surface. He lived. Woo! – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]]

== People don't use ramps? ==

I've put my trade depot a floor aboveground, with ramps then a bridge leading to it. Wagons get there fine, but people never take the ramps -- they always get there through the auxilliary tunnels. In fact if I bar the gates traders just sit in place, unable to find a path. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:16, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:Do you have traffic designations making the people want to go through the tunnels? Are the tunnels simply more direct routes to the depot? --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 00:32, 25 November 2008 (EST)
::I don't have traffic designations making them want to go through the tunnels instead, no. Not that merchants would obey such things anyway. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 18:45, 29 November 2008 (EST)

== Picture is wrong ==
Just a bit: the upper ramp is valid, since it has supporting wall (diagonal one (even two of them)). Need to repaint it as floor also. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:06, 24 November 2008 (EST)

== Wagon torque / horsepower? ==

Is there any limit to how many adjacent ramp squares a wagon can traverse? Aesthetically, I had always placed 3 or more tiles of flat space between two ramps, on the assumption that the wagon needed to "level out" before negotiating another hill... but I've seen them do some crazy off-roading on their way to my fortress. Can I have an underground depot at Z-6 that is served by a single continuous down-ramp? --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 16:54, 4 December 2008 (EST)

:Yep.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 17:33, 4 December 2008 (EST)
:...or a floodable pit through which everything coming in must pass, if you're not a bridge person. [[User:Sharp|Sharp]] 09:18, 26 January 2009 (EST)