Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d Talk:Screw pump/archive1

2008-03-07T17:18:44Z

Shimavak:

I made some mockups of east-to-west pumps using Unicode characters, but we should really get some full-fledged graphical examples. --[[User:JT|JT]] 07:47, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Is it essential that the rear of the pump be adjacent to an open square over liquid? I need to do some tests of that, I had assumed from my testing it was sufficient to have the pump just over liquid (so for example, have the rear square on a ramp into a lake) [[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 13:50, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:The rear end doesnt need to be over an open space it can be pumped straight out onto the ground. Fixing that now.--[[User:Lucid|Lucid]] 20:43, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::Uh, I found that when building a screw pump on open ground, above a mined-out section filled with 7 waters ont he floor below, nothing pumped through until I dug an 'Open Space' next to the pump handle. --[[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]] 20:52, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Is it possible to pump magma with a screw pump made of steel? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 04:55, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:I'm going to try this, except I'll use a Bauxite block because I can and there's lots of Bauxite on my map, I'll let you know how it turns out. (My last attempt at pumping magma ended with fire and death; Wood Pipe section, Stone block, I can't recall what kind of corkscrew.) --[[User:CrushU|CrushU]] 21:27, 7 January 2008 (EST)
::Used Iron Corkscrew and Pipe Section, Bauxite block, and it pumps fine. I'm going to assume Steel would work just as well. --[[User:CrushU|CrushU]] 01:21, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Has anyone confirmed the reynard diagram works? I was under the impression he meant it as conjecture [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:10, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:just tested it. its fine [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:19, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

::In the reynard diagram tower are the fronts of the pump over the water on the square besides that?

Maybe this is helpful?

[[image:PumpWestExamplefix.png]]

This is an example of a pump facing West in wonderful 3D.

A: A square below the level of the pump without a floor where water is pumped from

B: The point in which a dwarf operates the machine

C: The three points in which water is deposited. [[User:MikeWulf|MikeWulf]]
:It's deposited only on the far C tile but leaks into the others from it [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:27, 6 November 2007 (EST)

I can probably do a few of these for the digging article too if it is acceptable.

:What program did you use to make that graphic? I wouldn't be able to make something like this unless I had a laser pen or somethin'. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:53, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::Just OpenCanvas with a graphic tablet. If the wiki wants uniform pictures I could probably do them.

After seeing the new quote on the main page and seeing the bottom of this article, I'm totally opening up a dwarven gym with pumps and, if I can figure out how to make them use it, a swimming pool. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 20:46, 14 November 2007 (EST)
:Okay then, I'll put this bug in your head: If you build a pool with an adamantine floor, it'll look like lane markings :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 03:45, 16 November 2007 (EST)

Just added a note that stacked pumps have to be built from the bottom up in order to fulfill their support requirements. This may seem obvious to the initiated, but it frustrated me for quite some time. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:26, 16 November 2007 (EST)

I hear while draining ponds, screw pumps appear to create more water than they destroy, allowing some unexpected flooding. Does this mean, then, that you can take a single half-full square of water and eventually recycle it enough to fill a pond? Or is screw pump flooding just greatly exaggerated? --[[User:Knivesu|Knivesu]] 07:00, 3 December 2007 (EST)
:Actually got a chance to test it, appeared to create and destroy the same amount. Darn, and I was hoping for an automatic-refilling well. --[[User:Knivesu|Knivesu]] 22:38, 3 December 2007 (EST)

I think I have come up with a slightly more space efficient version of--what I can only assume to be--Juckto's pump tower system. It ought to work with either level as the base level and will use just as much energy as the previous version. I hope that it is useful! --[[User:Shimavak|Shimavak]] 23:00, 6 March 2008 (EST)

:Reynard's is still the best :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:11, 7 March 2008 (EST)

::I think that with Reynard's design, you would have to use axles at each level in order to run in mechanically; otherwise the water would leak if one were to run a pair of gears up the side the whole way. His is certainly more space efficient... --[[User:Shimavak|Shimavak]] 12:18, 7 March 2008 (EST)

== Mud ==

My screw pump seems to be producing a lot of mud and emptying it into the brook. Is this going to do something bad to my water supply, or am I alright as long as I stay upstream of the mud? --[[User:Sk128234|Sk128234]] 13:08, 17 November 2007 (EST)

:I'm 99% certain that it's pretty much impossible at this point to contaminate a water supply. Heck, any pond shows as a "murky pool" and dwarves will use it freely, and making a pond by flooding a roomful of goblin invaders makes a perfectly usable pond despite the obvious issues of the rotting drowned goblins. So, there shouldn't be any problems either way. [[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 20:13, 19 November 2007 (EST)

== Technical Nomenclature ==

I'm tired of being unsure of what to call either end of the pump so that other people can understand what I am saying. I propose that we come up with a particular set of terms to define how the pumps are setup in any description or example.

My proposal is as follows.

* Name: Screw Pump Block or Pump Block
* Acronym: SPB or just PB.
* Description: This is the end of the screw pump which is dark when the screw pump is being built. It blocks creatures and water.
* Symbol: %

* Name: Screw Pump Step or Pump Step
* Acronym: SPS or just PS.
* Description: This is the end of the screw pump which is light when the screw pump is being built. It can be walked on, and this is where the dwarf will stand to run the pump.
* Symbol: $

This will make it easier to tell where the pump faces when only a diagram is given. Such as the following. You can easily tell that the PB is on the left, and thus the pump is pumping right to left.

<div class="thumb">
<div class="thumbinner">
<div class="internal" style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%; text-align: left; border: 1px solid #CCC; background: white; padding: 5px;"><nowiki>
TOP VIEW SIDE VIEW
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒,,,,<-(Access tunnel) ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
≈≈≈≈▒,▒▒▒ <--pumping ≈≈≈≈%$
≈≈≈≈%$··· ▒▒▒▒▒▒≈≈≈ reservoir (below)-->
≈≈≈≈▒▒···
▒▒▒▒▒▒···
<--pumping (same level)
reservoir (below)-->
</nowiki>
</div><div class="thumbcaption">Diagram 1. Top and Side view of pump</div></div></div>

40d Talk:Screw pump/archive1

2008-03-07T04:00:50Z

Shimavak:

I made some mockups of east-to-west pumps using Unicode characters, but we should really get some full-fledged graphical examples. --[[User:JT|JT]] 07:47, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Is it essential that the rear of the pump be adjacent to an open square over liquid? I need to do some tests of that, I had assumed from my testing it was sufficient to have the pump just over liquid (so for example, have the rear square on a ramp into a lake) [[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 13:50, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

:The rear end doesnt need to be over an open space it can be pumped straight out onto the ground. Fixing that now.--[[User:Lucid|Lucid]] 20:43, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

::Uh, I found that when building a screw pump on open ground, above a mined-out section filled with 7 waters ont he floor below, nothing pumped through until I dug an 'Open Space' next to the pump handle. --[[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]] 20:52, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Is it possible to pump magma with a screw pump made of steel? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 04:55, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:I'm going to try this, except I'll use a Bauxite block because I can and there's lots of Bauxite on my map, I'll let you know how it turns out. (My last attempt at pumping magma ended with fire and death; Wood Pipe section, Stone block, I can't recall what kind of corkscrew.) --[[User:CrushU|CrushU]] 21:27, 7 January 2008 (EST)
::Used Iron Corkscrew and Pipe Section, Bauxite block, and it pumps fine. I'm going to assume Steel would work just as well. --[[User:CrushU|CrushU]] 01:21, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Has anyone confirmed the reynard diagram works? I was under the impression he meant it as conjecture [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:10, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:just tested it. its fine [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:19, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

::In the reynard diagram tower are the fronts of the pump over the water on the square besides that?

Maybe this is helpful?

[[image:PumpWestExamplefix.png]]

This is an example of a pump facing West in wonderful 3D.

A: A square below the level of the pump without a floor where water is pumped from

B: The point in which a dwarf operates the machine

C: The three points in which water is deposited. [[User:MikeWulf|MikeWulf]]
:It's deposited only on the far C tile but leaks into the others from it [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 09:27, 6 November 2007 (EST)

I can probably do a few of these for the digging article too if it is acceptable.

:What program did you use to make that graphic? I wouldn't be able to make something like this unless I had a laser pen or somethin'. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:53, 5 November 2007 (EST)

::Just OpenCanvas with a graphic tablet. If the wiki wants uniform pictures I could probably do them.

After seeing the new quote on the main page and seeing the bottom of this article, I'm totally opening up a dwarven gym with pumps and, if I can figure out how to make them use it, a swimming pool. -[[User:EarthquakeDamage|EarthquakeDamage]] 20:46, 14 November 2007 (EST)
:Okay then, I'll put this bug in your head: If you build a pool with an adamantine floor, it'll look like lane markings :) [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 03:45, 16 November 2007 (EST)

Just added a note that stacked pumps have to be built from the bottom up in order to fulfill their support requirements. This may seem obvious to the initiated, but it frustrated me for quite some time. [[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 16:26, 16 November 2007 (EST)

I hear while draining ponds, screw pumps appear to create more water than they destroy, allowing some unexpected flooding. Does this mean, then, that you can take a single half-full square of water and eventually recycle it enough to fill a pond? Or is screw pump flooding just greatly exaggerated? --[[User:Knivesu|Knivesu]] 07:00, 3 December 2007 (EST)
:Actually got a chance to test it, appeared to create and destroy the same amount. Darn, and I was hoping for an automatic-refilling well. --[[User:Knivesu|Knivesu]] 22:38, 3 December 2007 (EST)

I think I have come up with a slightly more space efficient version of--what I can only assume to be--Juckto's pump tower system. It ought to work with either level as the base level and will use just as much energy as the previous version. I hope that it is useful! --[[User:Shimavak|Shimavak]] 23:00, 6 March 2008 (EST)

== Mud ==

My screw pump seems to be producing a lot of mud and emptying it into the brook. Is this going to do something bad to my water supply, or am I alright as long as I stay upstream of the mud? --[[User:Sk128234|Sk128234]] 13:08, 17 November 2007 (EST)

:I'm 99% certain that it's pretty much impossible at this point to contaminate a water supply. Heck, any pond shows as a "murky pool" and dwarves will use it freely, and making a pond by flooding a roomful of goblin invaders makes a perfectly usable pond despite the obvious issues of the rotting drowned goblins. So, there shouldn't be any problems either way. [[User:Kefkakrazy|Kefkakrazy]] 20:13, 19 November 2007 (EST)

== Technical Nomenclature ==

I'm tired of being unsure of what to call either end of the pump so that other people can understand what I am saying. I propose that we come up with a particular set of terms to define how the pumps are setup in any description or example.

My proposal is as follows.

* Name: Screw Pump Block or Pump Block
* Acronym: SPB or just PB.
* Description: This is the end of the screw pump which is dark when the screw pump is being built. It blocks creatures and water.
* Symbol: %

* Name: Screw Pump Step or Pump Step
* Acronym: SPS or just PS.
* Description: This is the end of the screw pump which is light when the screw pump is being built. It can be walked on, and this is where the dwarf will stand to run the pump.
* Symbol: $

This will make it easier to tell where the pump faces when only a diagram is given. Such as the following. You can easily tell that the PB is on the left, and thus the pump is pumping right to left.

<div class="thumb">
<div class="thumbinner">
<div class="internal" style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%; text-align: left; border: 1px solid #CCC; background: white; padding: 5px;"><nowiki>
TOP VIEW SIDE VIEW
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒,,,,<-(Access tunnel) ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
≈≈≈≈▒,▒▒▒ <--pumping ≈≈≈≈%$
≈≈≈≈%$··· ▒▒▒▒▒▒≈≈≈ reservoir (below)-->
≈≈≈≈▒▒···
▒▒▒▒▒▒···
<--pumping (same level)
reservoir (below)-->
</nowiki>
</div><div class="thumbcaption">Diagram 1. Top and Side view of pump</div></div></div>

40d:Screw pump

2008-03-07T04:00:44Z

Shimavak: Added additional tower pump method.

{{Machine_component|name=Screw pump|key=s|job=[[Pump operator]]
|construction=
* [[Enormous corkscrew]]
* [[Pipe]]
*1 of
** [[Stone block]]
** [[Glass block]]
** [[Wood block]]
|construction_job=
* [[Architecture]]
* 1 of
** [[Carpentry]]
** [[Masonry]]
|power_need=10
}}
A '''screw pump''' can lift [[water]] from below onto the same [[Z-level]] as the pump. Its is two tiles by one tile in size, and it can be either manually operated by a [[dwarf]] with the [[pump operator]] job or by using [[gear assembly|gear assemblies]] connected to [[water wheel]]s and/or [[windmill]]s. The direction you want the water to travel must be chosen at the time of construction.

== Construction ==

Building a screw pump requires an [[enormous corkscrew]], a stone, wood, or glass block, and a [[pipe]] section. The light green X must be next to the water source and the dark green X is where the water exits the pump. Having specified the direction of travel, you must ensure that the source side of the pump is placed adjacent to and above (in the [[z-axis]]) a liquid. The screw pump will draw the liquid up from below, and distribute it out of the other side of the pump. Screw pumps are [[construction]]s that can be removed to recover the building materials.

== Notes ==

* The source of the pump must be directionally adjacent to "Open Space" that is directly above a filled pool of liquid.
* In order to build pumps in a "hanging" state, as in the stacked screw pump example, the dark tile of the screw pump must be able to connect to a nearby machine; either already existing or designated to be built.
* The rear pump tile does not block creature movement. The front of the pump does block creature movement.
* The front pump tile blocks water flow. The rear of the pump does not block water flow.
* Dwarves must be able to access and stand on the rear tile of the pump in order to be able to operate the pump manually.
* Active mechanisms connected to the pump will automatically start the pump; to prevent this either restrict water flow using floodgates, or put in a [[gear assembly]] linked to a [[lever]] to disconnect [[power|motion]].
* Pumps can also be used in conjunction with a [[water wheel]] or a [[windmill]] to become self-powered.
* Pumps can not push water up additional Z-levels. That is, if you direct the output of a screw pump into a 1-square space surrounded by walls, the water will not "overflow" the walls.

== Example layouts ==
[[Image:pumpsnc4.png|frame|right|Diagram 2. Another example of a pump]]
=== Example layout ===
<div class="thumb">
<div class="thumbinner">
<div class="internal" style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre; line-height: 126.5%; text-align: left; border: 1px solid #CCC; background: white; padding: 5px;"><nowiki>
TOP VIEW SIDE VIEW
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒,,,, ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
≈≈≈≈▒,▒▒▒ <--pumping ≈≈≈≈%%
≈≈≈≈%%··· ▒▒▒▒▒▒≈≈≈ reservoir (below)-->
≈≈≈≈▒▒···
▒▒▒▒▒▒···
<--pumping (same level)
reservoir (below)-->
</nowiki>
</div><div class="thumbcaption">Diagram 1. Top and Side view of pump</div></div></div>

=== Another example ===
''See Diagram 2.'' This example is from a
[http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001225&p=2 Bay12 forum thread.]

#Side view of the basic pump unit. Water is moved from the lower floor to the upper; notice how the front of the pump does not need a floor.
#Side view of stacked screw pumps. Power is transmitted vertically through the missing floor tiles under the fronts of the pumps - no need for gearboxes in this design. The screw pump front prevents the water from flowing diagonally downwards.
#Top view of the basic pump unit.
#Top view with walls in place to prevent the receiving area from spilling out. If this is all it needed, these units could be stacked on top of each other, but it's missing one thing - dwarf access. There's no stairs/ramps, and no good place to put them either that wouldn't interfere with the adjacent levels' water containment.
#Solution for a freestanding tower - fire escape! Sure, you could consolidate the up and downstairs into a single up/down stair tile, but I like the zigzag and symmetrical arrangement this one presents. Just build these on top of each other, flipping horizontally each time, and bam. Minimal yet aesthetic multi-level water pumping.
<div float="right">''Example courtesy of Reynard of the forums''</div>

===Yet another example - Automated system===
I use this system in conjunction with a river to power the water wheels.

I wanted to be able to pump water up several levels without wasting dwarves on "Pumping". So by using a system of water wheels and gears, and a bit of trial and error until I fixed my leaking problems, I came up with the following solution, where the "1st" and "2nd" levels simply alternate until I reach the desired height.

Digging Plan:

"1st" Level "2nd level" Key
######### ######## # Undug wall
######### # ## X Up/down staircase
######### # ### ## _ Channel
#X# # #X# _#
# # ##### ### # ##
# _### ### #_##
###_##### ### ####
######### ########

Building Plan

"1st" Level "2nd level" Key
######### ######## % Screw pump
######### # ## * Gear
######### # ### ##
#X# # #X# %%_#
# #%##### ### #*##
# %**### ### #*##
###_##### ### ####
######### ########

The red gear transmits power vertically, while the other ones give power to the pumps. Switching from up to left (or down to right, the orientation of the L doesn't matter) stops water leaking back down the vertical shaft. A single water wheel provides enough power for about 4 storeys. You will, of course, want to insert floodgates with levers at various locations.

Hooking up to 2 water wheels Key
############ = Wooden axle (E/W)
#X# #### | Wooden axle (N/S)
# # ######## H Water wheel (orange for one, green for the 2nd)
# %***==*## . Channel where water is flowing
###%##|##|##
###..HHHHHH.
############

A problem occurs when as the channel fills - as soon as it's deep enough for the wheels to spin the machine activates, sucking water out of the channel and making it too shallow for the wheels to spin, leading to a distinct 'stop-start' behaviour. It just takes time to even out - I suggest filling the channel before starting on the rest of the tower.

====Alternative Configuration====

A slightly more space efficient version of the above design can be achieved; though, it will increase the complexity of repairs should any component require it. Note that either level may be used as the base and tessellated appropriately.

Digging (Phase I):

Level 1 Level 2 Key
###### ###### # Undug wall
# # # _# . May be wall, cleared, or stairs.
# #### # # ## _ Channel
# .. # # ..
#_#... # #...
###... ###...

Construction (Phase II):

Level 1 Level 2 Key
###### ###### % Output side of pump
# # # %%_# % Input side of pump
#%#### # #*## * Direct drive gears
#%* .. # # ..
#_#... # #...
###... ###...

Digging/Construction (Phase III):

This step must be performed after the pump and direct gears have been placed.

Level 1 Level 2 Key
###### ###### _ Channel for transfer gear.
# # # %%_#
#%#### # #*##
#%*_.. # #_..
#_#... # #...
###... ###...

Finally place the power transfer gear:

Construction (Phase II):

Level 1 Level 2 Key
###### ###### ˜ Water on z-1
#≈≈≈≈# #≈%%˜# ≈ Water on current z
#%#### #≈#*## * Power Transfer Gear
#%**.. #≈#*..
#˜#... #≈#...
###... ###...

===And yet another example - Automated system===
Similar to the one above, but requiring more gear assemblies and more suited for construction, rather than digging. I used this design to pump water up into my 19 level high water tower.

<pre>
Level 1 Construction Plan

+++###+
X+_+++#X
+++###+

Level 2 Construction Plan

+
+###+++
X#+++_+X
+###+++

Level 1 Building Plan
* <------This gear transmits power vertically.
++*###+
X+_%%+#X
+++###+

Level 2 Building Plan
---------This gear transmits power vertically.
|
v
**
+###*++
X#+%%_+X
+###+++

Key:
# constructed wall
+ constructed floor or top of wall
_ open space
%% screw pump
* gear assemblies
X stairs
</pre>

Keep in mind that the walls you build below will create "floors" on the floor above, so for each Level 1 (above the ground level) you should only have to build 5 floor tiles, and on each Level 2 you need to build 6 floor tiles (one extra for the extra gear assembly). Just keep alternating these designs stacked as desired.

=== Running a pump with a windmill ===

First, build a [[windmill]] anywhere aboveground (note that it won't do anything yet).

Then, build the pump. The end you selected to 'pump from' will suck water up from the level below, then pump it out of the other end. Build with this in mind. If you want to pump from a river, the 'pump from' end should be on the river.

Both the pipe and corkscrew can be built by a [[carpenter]], (the corkscrew is listed as something like 'enormous wooden cor' if you are using the single-width screen, but hitting {{k|Tab}} to expand the screen should reveal the full text).

Connecting [[Windmill|windmills]] to pumps:

Note that it's much easier if the centre of the [[windmill]] lines up with the pump.

# Dig one level below the [[windmill]] and put a [[gear assembly]] directly beneath the [[axle]] (at centre of windmill). The windmill will start turning.
# You're probably going to want to bring your power up to the surface. To do this, dig away from the first gear until the surface is clear above. Place another gear here.
# Connect the gears together using a horizontal axle.
# Get a [[miner]] to [[channel]] on top of the second gear.
# Build a third gear in this channel. You should now have a turning gear on the surface.
# If you thought ahead, you should only need one axle to connect the surface gear to the pump. A pump can be powered from any side.

I recommend that you connect a lever to one of your gears beforehand. The pump will start pumping as soon as it has power.

You can change stuff around as the situation dictates, but that should get you started.

[[Image:Above.png|frame|none|above]]
[[Image:Below.png|frame|none|below]]

The pictures aren't lined up - the far right gear in the second picture is the one below the surface gear.

== Alternate Uses ==

Pumps can also be built with no actual pumping in mind but as dwarven exercise machines. This is an excellent method to train haulers for better strength and agility or for future soldiers.

== External links ==

*[[User:Markavian/DFMA|DFMA]] Ingame Videos featuring screw pumps: ([http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-pump Movies with Pump in the title])

{{Water FAQ}}

[[Category:Constructions]]
[[Category:Machine components]]