Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

Magma piston

2023-12-09T16:52:47Z

Sniper231996:

Magma piston

2023-12-09T16:37:02Z

Sniper231996: /* Magma Piston */

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'''Magma pistons''' are used to move [[magma]] near the surface. This approach was developed by players as an alternative to [[screw pump#Pump stack|pump stack]]s. Magma pistons are used because they require less time and fewer precious materials to construct than pump stacks. However, magma pistons are a bit more complicated than pump stacks, so it takes more time to understand how to operate and build them.

== The concept ==
The piston method is based on a clever [[exploit|abuse]] of [[cave-in]] [[physics]]. The basic principle involves channeling out an area around a huge stone pillar, hundreds of z-levels tall, which will become the "piston" that drives magma to the top. Rest the piston on a single support, then carve out a tank at its base which will be filled with magma pumped from the magma sea. ('''Beware:''' building the piston directly over the magma sea will '''NOT''' work. The piston must be made entirely of ''natural'' (non-constructed) walls.) Once the tank has been filled, drop the piston by removing its support. Liquids displaced by a cave-in will "teleport" straight up to the nearest available space; here, the nearest available space will be the catchment area you thoughtfully prepared earlier atop the piston.

A simple magma piston works as shown in the following diagram:

'''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
~ = '''Magma'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Basic magma piston design (side view)'''
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When the support is destroyed, the wall sections in the middle will fall down into the magma. The magma will teleport to the top of the piston, as shown in the following diagram:

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== Construction ==
A magma piston is composed of 4-5 parts: the catchment area, the magma reservoir, the support, the piston, and the obsidian caster (optional).

=== Catchment area ===
:The '''catchment area''' is located at the top of the piston. After the piston is dropped, the magma will spread out around the catchment area. In a repeating magma piston, some of the magma is used to cast obsidian on top of the piston, in order to reuse it. The volume and size of the catchment area must be carefully calculated to ensure that you won't have too much or too little magma above the piston for casting. Ideally, you want the depth of the magma above the piston to be 2. If the depth is 1, then the magma might evaporate and you won't be able to repair your piston. If the depth is greater than 2, then you're wasting magma if you cast it into obsidian. You can also make the catchment area multiple z-levels deep. If you need a catchment area smaller than possible with bridges or floodgates, you may use a floor-less [[Floodgate#Placement|floodgate]] to prevent the magma entering that square, while keeping the piston free to fall.

=== Magma reservoir ===
:The '''magma reservoir''' is dug out near the magma sea. You can't actually drop the piston directly into the magma sea because the bottom of the magma sea is [[semi-molten rock]], and it will completely destroy any piston dropped into it. The magma reservoir is artificial, so it won't have a floor made of semi-molten rock. This will allow the piston to rest on the floor of your reservoir. The magma reservoir needs three parts: a magma inlet, a magma drain, and an access corridor. After letting magma in, and dropping the piston, you'll want to dig out the bottom of the piston so you can drop it again. To do that, you need to drain any excess magma and let your workers in through the access corridor.

=== Support ===
:The '''support''' is what prevents your piston from dropping until you decide to pull the firing lever. The support can be located either at the bottom of the piston, as shown in the simplified diagram, or at the side of the piston (shown in the following diagram). If the support is at the bottom of the piston, then the support and the mechanism it uses must both be [[magma-safe]]. If it's at the side, then neither need to be magma-safe. Here's an example of a side-mounted support:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
'''X''' = '''Up/Down stairs'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''
= = '''Constructed floor'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Side-mounted support'''
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:In this diagram, you can see the catchment area at the top, and the piston in the middle of the shaft. The support structure is to the left. When the support element collapses, the two constructed floors will become unsupported, and then the piston will collapse. The stairs and hatch to the left of the constructed floors allows for convenient reconstruction of the support.

=== Piston ===
:The '''piston''' is the heart of the scheme. It may be 100-200 z-levels long, so it will take quite a while for your miners to dig it out. You may encounter trouble with caverns. Ideally, you should scout out the caverns and find a clear path straight down. If you can't find such a path, you can fix the problem as follows:

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:First, smooth the top and bottom, like so:

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:Now drop the top of the piston on to the floor of the cavern. You can use a cave-in to destroy the stairs quickly, if you remove all up-stairs first.

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=== Obsidian caster ===
:The '''obsidian caster''' is what allows you to rebuild your piston and get more magma. It's an application of techniques drawn from [[obsidian farming]]. The caster just needs to precisely dump water into the catchment area in order to form obsidian. A caster is composed of two parts: a water inlet, and a retracting bridge. Here's a sample design:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
F = '''Closed floodgate'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with water'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with magma'''
~ = '''Magma'''
~ = '''Water'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Obsidian caster'''
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:When you retract the bridge at the top, the water will fall straight down, and you'll get the following result:

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== Operation ==
The general procedure for operating a repeatable magma piston is as follows:

#Pull your firing lever to collapse the side support, thus dropping the piston into the magma.
#In the magma reservoir, close the inlet and open the drain to empty the magma and allow workers in later.
#Retract the bridge of the obsidian caster to drop water onto magma and rebuild the piston.
#Extend the bridge of the obsidian caster and open the inlet floodgate, to refill your caster's water supply.
#Reconstruct the side support and re-link it to your firing lever.
#Pump/drain any magma you want to use out of the catchment area.
#Allow workers into the magma reservoir when it's safe and empty, and dig out the bottom of the piston.
#Get the workers out of the reservoir and lock the door.
#In the magma reservoir, close the drain and open the inlet to fill it with magma.
#Remember to close the inlet floodgate of your obsidian caster.
#Make sure that your side-support is clear.
#When the magma reservoir is full, use your firing lever to restart the process.

== More information ==
The original discussion of this trick, including how to make the piston reusable, can be found in [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59894.0 this forum thread].
[[ru:Magma piston]]

That being said, I will link this here so that those who attempt this concept in the premium version have access to this guide.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924657714

== Magma Piston - Updated 9th December 2023 ==
So here I will begin the editing of a new chapter in magma pistons after the premium version has been released. The work that Fenwah and others on bay12forums began is still going on.
This page teaches you to:
*Finding the right spot using Dwarven Sonar
*Induce multi floor cave-in (to channel multiple floors very fast)
*Magma Tapping (breaking into the magma sea to get a source of magma for magma reservoir)
*Using portable drain ( For draining magma )
*Using Supports to drop the piston ( massive pillar of rock, 120 blocks high )
*Using water to reload the piston

== Dwarven Sonar ==
Now, how to do it? it is mentioned as follows :
*Go to build -> farming -> farm plot
*Drag and drop a square at any plot that is suitable for farming, but make sure to only select the starter tile and not the placement click.
*Now drag a big square, do not end the placement, max size plot, now scroll to lower tiles
*When you drag the mouse wheel and go below, the places where farm plot is place-able is visible
*Underground in undiscovered regions, where there is farm plot, there is a cavern
*I have shown a gif of how to do it below, it shows what is written here applied, in full.
*We have discovered 3 caverns in the mentioned manner.
*Where ever there is a cavern, it is visible by a different manner in placement pop-up
*Now when you discover the caverns, note the levels where you discover them and dig carefully.
*Cancel the placement option
Here is the big Gif, I have cropped the empty frames in the GIf. The relevant frames are kept in here.

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| [[File:Dwarven Sonar GIF 2.gif|thumb|The Sonar in action]]
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== Detailed Video ==
*5th April 2023:
*Youtube video:
[https://youtu.be/fnVPvjCLXvA?si=zhNOla5LOzKILDuW Magma Piston Video]

== Making a Portable Drain ==

A portable drain is a mine-cart dumping infinite amounts of water in a wall .
A quick TL;DR
*Make a track stop dumping into wall
*Place (Magma-safe material for magma) mine-cart on it with empty conditions/give or take stockpiles/
*Make sure the set-up is made one floor below the region to be drained
*one can place a pump, pumping fluid in to the mine-cart but then that needs automation
1. What you need is:
*A mine-cart -> Material depends on what you intend it for.
*A proper track stop - that - dumps - in to - a - wall, (maximum friction )
2. This is my portable magma drain design:
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Portable Drain Layout.PNG|thumb|Portable Drain Layout example]]
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* Water -> Any mine-cart
*Magma -> Magma-safe material for cart
*The location of the drain is important.
*I usually channel a room and make it 1-Z level low, so the entire magma goes to the cart and drainsup, leaving the upper floor totally empty when needed.
*This will clear it up.
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| [[File:Drain explained.png|thumb|Portable Drain Logic]]
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3. Now we set the IRON drain dump stop:
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| [[File:Drain dump stop.png|thumb|Drain Dump designation]]
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4. Now we set the drain dump mine-cart
*Go to set mine-cart hauling routes, add a new route, then look at the index described below:
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| [[File:Minecart designations.png|thumb|Minecart icons explained]]
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5. Now we do this:
*Set track stop to the Iron track stop we made
*Set an IRON mine-cart to the stop
*delete every single conditions and leave it empty
*We do not want any conditions in it, we do not want it to take or give from any stockpile, nor do we want it to take any specific item. So we leave the below tab empty, except for the names
So I will re-cap this :
1. Add new track stop. 2. Click on iron track stop and name it. 3. Click on add mine-cart and add iron mine-cart. 4. Name the track-stop if you will. 5. Remove all conditions. 6. Let the items to be placed in be empty. 7. That should do it.
6. Now if the dumping into a wall and mine-cart with all empty and normal placement is there then it will work absolutely fine. There is only one way to test, fill it up with water or magma, it will drain the floors above its current floors, it will drain up to only 6/7 of the floor it is placed on. So the reason for its one floor lower placement. It is very important that you don't place the dump on the same floor as your desired draining floor.

== Magma Tapping ==
Magma Tapping has various methods, I will try to depict a very simple method:
*But before hand, there is a section in-game:
*Under Labour Tab
*Go to Stone use
This list gives you the list of magma safe materials, so in my case, I had a lot of dolomite, so I selected ( Allow dolomite to be used in normal stone jobs ). So I could make some magma safe grates and stuff. Another good idea is to use iron for all these magma operations.

So this is an approximate list of materials you'd want ready before going for magma pump
*Iron Pipe Section X 1
*Iron Blocks X 4 or 8
*Enormous Iron Cork-Screw X 1
*Iron Flood Gate X 2
*Iron Grates X 1
*Iron Mechanisms X as per need, because later on, we are going to need these a lot
*Iron Mine-cart
*A Portable Drain ( I will teach this )
*This is what you are looking forward to
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*This is my Pump :
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*This is magma below the Pump, the tile of magma has been channelled.
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| [[File:Below pump.PNG|thumb|View below the pump shown above]]
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Place the pump such that it is one tile ahead of the tile it is sucking from and place the direction of pumping carefully. We place the iron bars so that creatures don't come from underneath the magma into the fortress. The materials are made of iron so that the pump doesn't burn. The Door is placed as a precaution in case things don't work out as intended.
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| [[File:Pump working concept.png|thumb|Pumps working logic]]
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This is how it is intended to work, don't mind the burning trash, it just shows how non-fire proof materials melt to magma, whereas the pump, operator, grate, door and bars are safe, even the floodgate is safe and sound.
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| [[File:Magma Pumping.gif|thumb|Magma being pumped Gif File]]
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Now you know how to do it hopefully, good luck with the tapping. Some tips, when you hit warm rock, be exceptionally careful with it. Dig little little upwards and sideways to discover from what z level the warm rocks start, above that layer will be the pump. Also, better to have all materials ready before a magma man pays a visit through the hole you made in the magma sea. Yes, that will be the best I can explain it to you my dear reader.
This is the concept of the pump with things mentioned.

== Cave-in organising and executing ==
This is how a multi-floor cave-in is organised. This is the youtube video describing what is to be explained below now :
*[https://youtu.be/pW1CrP_IgWI?si=gHw5RCOOGtK7-AVl Planned Mass Cave-in]
* This image explains the concept of the video as to how to do it, and all.
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| [[File:Cave in fundamental.png|thumb|Cave in logic]]
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We dig out the piston but the floors... 100 or perhaps 120.. 120 floor channelling? nah dude... This is a better alternative, a 100 or 120 floor digging itself takes an in-game year or so. So what we do is, above all these floors, make a support. on this support is a 5x5 square floor. This 5x5 square has a 3x3 hole in the centre. Attach the support to a lever, when all 100 or 120 floors are dug out, you just make sure all dwarves and creatures are away from these floors or it is instant death. So when you pull the lever, this 5x5 drops exactly on similar 5x5 floors supporting the piston. Every single floor below is destroyed. But the oiston is intact. Why? because it is supported by a support. So all that is left here is the piston alone, clean and beautiful. Now in our case, why is a piston shown? Why is this example describing a piston? Why a piston in a cave in? Because, that video shows the magma piston that is to be used in our guide and that video is a great example of how to clean multiple floors. Yes, even TwistedLogicgaming destroyed an entire island with a floor collapse. So now enough chit chat, lets go to a small summary.

== What have we learnt so far and why? ==
We have learnt
*To find the caverns to suitably dig for the piston.
*To cause a massive cave-in to dig the circumference of the magma piston.
*To carefully pump magma in a designated place.
*And then to drain it very effectively.

== ''''' Magma Piston ''''' ==
Video is right here :
* [https://youtu.be/OBEot6PJUYI?si=0QZeBdZ73xtznkmK Firing a Magma Piston]

*Let us get into this, this below image is just for reference: a general understanding of the entire process:
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:IMG 20230131 002636.jpg|thumb|Artistic Depiction of a Magma Piston]]
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*'''This is the top level : The Obsidian Regenerator'''
*An obsidian Regenerator servers one purpose,to recreate the blocks we dig at the base at the piston. The way this works is, we have a retracting bridge on exactly top of the magma piston head. This retractable bridge will have water on top of it 7/7. This draw bridge is covered on all sides. Water inlet and outlet is floodgate controlled. When we retract, the water 7/7 exactly falls down on the piston head creating 2/7 (minimum magma to be present) magma to obsidian. This completes the regeneration.
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| [[File:Obsidian regenerator water.PNG|thumb|A ready position obsidian regenerator]]
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*'''This is the level where magma forges will be build:'''
*When magma is pumped here, there needs to be micro-management else this magma that is being pumped will freely flow and become cold. If this magma entirely becomes cold, then the obsidian regenerator won't work. This causes the entire project to be fu(k3d because the absence of magma makes the entire repeatability of the project to fail. So a save before first pump is always advised.
*In this image, there are series of channels and slots dug out for the Forge placement. There are several levers controlling <Magma-Safe> draw-bridges below.
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| [[File:Piston Head and Designated Magma Forge Room.PNG|thumb|Piston Head]]
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*'''This is where the magma floods in:'''
*The bridges control the magma flow. Every single draw bridge is retracted before the first pump. The floodgate is a critical part and a grate installation is highly advised. Sequential opening and repeating of pumping further opening the bridges to allow more and more magma flow to make it minimum 4/4. In the first three piston drops, one magma forge will be running. Took me 3 pumps and mirco-management to get it running honestly
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| [[File:Under the Forges and Magin Magma Room.PNG|thumb|Magma Control Slots]]
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*'''This is how it looks post piston drop:'''
*The support has been pulled by the lever, the entire pillar/piston falls down. Upon falling down the area occupied by magma which is replaced by the piston is instantly teleported on top of it, hence the name " Magma Piston " also depicted in the fan-art posted before.
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*'''This is how the bottom design is:'''
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| [[File:Magma Room.PNG|thumb|Piston Bottom Support]]
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*'''This is how it looks when flooded with magma and piston drops down:'''
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| [[File:Post activation bottom.PNG|thumb|Activated magma piston]]
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*'''Magma Piston types -'''
*magma pistons are of two types specifically :
*Re-usable:-
*one such as ours with only a single z-level dropping into magma. This single z-level can be easily regenerated with water drop on magma at the piston top surface as shown in video
*Non-re-usable:-
*the one which is made for a single time use, use like a magma moat... what happens in this is, the piston literally drops in a massive tank full of magma, multiple z-levels deep. Such as 10 Length x 10 Breadth x 5 Levels, so 3,500 units of magma to be transferred. The upper surface must be prepared well to hold this magma as well to use else it can flood the fort leading massive Fun.
multiple z-level regeneration is not possible so this is a single use massive piston. Does the trick though.

== Cavern between piston ==
The Problem of Cavern occurring in between the piston parts.
Firstly, for a project like this, exploration of caverns is primarily advised. Radar isn't sufficient to pull off the direct exploration. The problem occurs when there is a small cavern and there ain't no perfect spot without cavern occurring in between the piston. So this is the method to solve that problem.

1. Make the top and bottom piston. The bottom piston is held by a support. The top piston is to be dropped but not directly. keep top and bottom ready.

2. Every single thing in between the top and bottom of pistons to be dug clean. Nothing but air between the top and bottom.

3. Now the top side piston column may have un-even bottom and the top-surface of the bottom piston can be un-even. We make it smooth 3x3 on top and bottom so that the mating surfaces are clean and 3x3 with nothing in between.

4. Drop top piston on bottom piston.

5. Now the part where the piston top is there , 1z level below is your magma pumping chamber and obsidian retainer tank is to be on its top and so on...

6. Now during your pumping process, somehow using the retainer and a very well thought out process you can increase the piston length but it is tedious.

7. So TLDR; clean the area between top and bottom surfaces between piston. Make mating faces clean 3x3 / 10 x 10 or whatever. drop topside and make the surfaces connect. Make arrangements and start pumping.

== The Significance of retracting bridge ==
In the room where magma is teleported above the piston when it drops is because the magma doesn't drip below. What is the use of teleporting massive amounts of magma and it legit drips down to where it was pumped from... One more factor is, if water were to fall in alone the pillar and connect to a piece of magma, it will attach the piston with the channel around leading to process disruption. Floor grates, flood gates didn't work in my case. Magma safe retractable bridges work excellently.
== Mega Piston Regnerator ==
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== Compound Magma Piston ==
Very advanced stuff, basically, you make pump stack in between and place a gigantic piston at the top. If there is a huge gap in between two caverns, the design can be implemented in between them. You can use reducer pistons or something like that as well.
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Magma piston

2023-12-09T16:36:39Z

Sniper231996: /* More information */

{{migrated article}}
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'''Magma pistons''' are used to move [[magma]] near the surface. This approach was developed by players as an alternative to [[screw pump#Pump stack|pump stack]]s. Magma pistons are used because they require less time and fewer precious materials to construct than pump stacks. However, magma pistons are a bit more complicated than pump stacks, so it takes more time to understand how to operate and build them.

== The concept ==
The piston method is based on a clever [[exploit|abuse]] of [[cave-in]] [[physics]]. The basic principle involves channeling out an area around a huge stone pillar, hundreds of z-levels tall, which will become the "piston" that drives magma to the top. Rest the piston on a single support, then carve out a tank at its base which will be filled with magma pumped from the magma sea. ('''Beware:''' building the piston directly over the magma sea will '''NOT''' work. The piston must be made entirely of ''natural'' (non-constructed) walls.) Once the tank has been filled, drop the piston by removing its support. Liquids displaced by a cave-in will "teleport" straight up to the nearest available space; here, the nearest available space will be the catchment area you thoughtfully prepared earlier atop the piston.

A simple magma piston works as shown in the following diagram:

'''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
~ = '''Magma'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
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When the support is destroyed, the wall sections in the middle will fall down into the magma. The magma will teleport to the top of the piston, as shown in the following diagram:

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== Construction ==
A magma piston is composed of 4-5 parts: the catchment area, the magma reservoir, the support, the piston, and the obsidian caster (optional).

=== Catchment area ===
:The '''catchment area''' is located at the top of the piston. After the piston is dropped, the magma will spread out around the catchment area. In a repeating magma piston, some of the magma is used to cast obsidian on top of the piston, in order to reuse it. The volume and size of the catchment area must be carefully calculated to ensure that you won't have too much or too little magma above the piston for casting. Ideally, you want the depth of the magma above the piston to be 2. If the depth is 1, then the magma might evaporate and you won't be able to repair your piston. If the depth is greater than 2, then you're wasting magma if you cast it into obsidian. You can also make the catchment area multiple z-levels deep. If you need a catchment area smaller than possible with bridges or floodgates, you may use a floor-less [[Floodgate#Placement|floodgate]] to prevent the magma entering that square, while keeping the piston free to fall.

=== Magma reservoir ===
:The '''magma reservoir''' is dug out near the magma sea. You can't actually drop the piston directly into the magma sea because the bottom of the magma sea is [[semi-molten rock]], and it will completely destroy any piston dropped into it. The magma reservoir is artificial, so it won't have a floor made of semi-molten rock. This will allow the piston to rest on the floor of your reservoir. The magma reservoir needs three parts: a magma inlet, a magma drain, and an access corridor. After letting magma in, and dropping the piston, you'll want to dig out the bottom of the piston so you can drop it again. To do that, you need to drain any excess magma and let your workers in through the access corridor.

=== Support ===
:The '''support''' is what prevents your piston from dropping until you decide to pull the firing lever. The support can be located either at the bottom of the piston, as shown in the simplified diagram, or at the side of the piston (shown in the following diagram). If the support is at the bottom of the piston, then the support and the mechanism it uses must both be [[magma-safe]]. If it's at the side, then neither need to be magma-safe. Here's an example of a side-mounted support:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
'''X''' = '''Up/Down stairs'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''
= = '''Constructed floor'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Side-mounted support'''
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:In this diagram, you can see the catchment area at the top, and the piston in the middle of the shaft. The support structure is to the left. When the support element collapses, the two constructed floors will become unsupported, and then the piston will collapse. The stairs and hatch to the left of the constructed floors allows for convenient reconstruction of the support.

=== Piston ===
:The '''piston''' is the heart of the scheme. It may be 100-200 z-levels long, so it will take quite a while for your miners to dig it out. You may encounter trouble with caverns. Ideally, you should scout out the caverns and find a clear path straight down. If you can't find such a path, you can fix the problem as follows:

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:First, smooth the top and bottom, like so:

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:Now drop the top of the piston on to the floor of the cavern. You can use a cave-in to destroy the stairs quickly, if you remove all up-stairs first.

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=== Obsidian caster ===
:The '''obsidian caster''' is what allows you to rebuild your piston and get more magma. It's an application of techniques drawn from [[obsidian farming]]. The caster just needs to precisely dump water into the catchment area in order to form obsidian. A caster is composed of two parts: a water inlet, and a retracting bridge. Here's a sample design:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
F = '''Closed floodgate'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with water'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with magma'''
~ = '''Magma'''
~ = '''Water'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
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:When you retract the bridge at the top, the water will fall straight down, and you'll get the following result:

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== Operation ==
The general procedure for operating a repeatable magma piston is as follows:

#Pull your firing lever to collapse the side support, thus dropping the piston into the magma.
#In the magma reservoir, close the inlet and open the drain to empty the magma and allow workers in later.
#Retract the bridge of the obsidian caster to drop water onto magma and rebuild the piston.
#Extend the bridge of the obsidian caster and open the inlet floodgate, to refill your caster's water supply.
#Reconstruct the side support and re-link it to your firing lever.
#Pump/drain any magma you want to use out of the catchment area.
#Allow workers into the magma reservoir when it's safe and empty, and dig out the bottom of the piston.
#Get the workers out of the reservoir and lock the door.
#In the magma reservoir, close the drain and open the inlet to fill it with magma.
#Remember to close the inlet floodgate of your obsidian caster.
#Make sure that your side-support is clear.
#When the magma reservoir is full, use your firing lever to restart the process.

== More information ==
The original discussion of this trick, including how to make the piston reusable, can be found in [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59894.0 this forum thread].
[[ru:Magma piston]]

That being said, I will link this here so that those who attempt this concept in the premium version have access to this guide.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924657714

== Magma Piston ==
So here I will begin the editing of a new chapter in magma pistons after the premium version has been released. The work that Fenwah and others on bay12forums began is still going on.
This page teaches you to:
*Finding the right spot using Dwarven Sonar
*Induce multi floor cave-in (to channel multiple floors very fast)
*Magma Tapping (breaking into the magma sea to get a source of magma for magma reservoir)
*Using portable drain ( For draining magma )
*Using Supports to drop the piston ( massive pillar of rock, 120 blocks high )
*Using water to reload the piston

== Dwarven Sonar ==
Now, how to do it? it is mentioned as follows :
*Go to build -> farming -> farm plot
*Drag and drop a square at any plot that is suitable for farming, but make sure to only select the starter tile and not the placement click.
*Now drag a big square, do not end the placement, max size plot, now scroll to lower tiles
*When you drag the mouse wheel and go below, the places where farm plot is place-able is visible
*Underground in undiscovered regions, where there is farm plot, there is a cavern
*I have shown a gif of how to do it below, it shows what is written here applied, in full.
*We have discovered 3 caverns in the mentioned manner.
*Where ever there is a cavern, it is visible by a different manner in placement pop-up
*Now when you discover the caverns, note the levels where you discover them and dig carefully.
*Cancel the placement option
Here is the big Gif, I have cropped the empty frames in the GIf. The relevant frames are kept in here.

{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Dwarven Sonar GIF 2.gif|thumb|The Sonar in action]]
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== Detailed Video ==
*5th April 2023:
*Youtube video:
[https://youtu.be/fnVPvjCLXvA?si=zhNOla5LOzKILDuW Magma Piston Video]

== Making a Portable Drain ==

A portable drain is a mine-cart dumping infinite amounts of water in a wall .
A quick TL;DR
*Make a track stop dumping into wall
*Place (Magma-safe material for magma) mine-cart on it with empty conditions/give or take stockpiles/
*Make sure the set-up is made one floor below the region to be drained
*one can place a pump, pumping fluid in to the mine-cart but then that needs automation
1. What you need is:
*A mine-cart -> Material depends on what you intend it for.
*A proper track stop - that - dumps - in to - a - wall, (maximum friction )
2. This is my portable magma drain design:
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| [[File:Portable Drain Layout.PNG|thumb|Portable Drain Layout example]]
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* Water -> Any mine-cart
*Magma -> Magma-safe material for cart
*The location of the drain is important.
*I usually channel a room and make it 1-Z level low, so the entire magma goes to the cart and drainsup, leaving the upper floor totally empty when needed.
*This will clear it up.
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| [[File:Drain explained.png|thumb|Portable Drain Logic]]
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3. Now we set the IRON drain dump stop:
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| [[File:Drain dump stop.png|thumb|Drain Dump designation]]
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4. Now we set the drain dump mine-cart
*Go to set mine-cart hauling routes, add a new route, then look at the index described below:
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| [[File:Minecart designations.png|thumb|Minecart icons explained]]
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5. Now we do this:
*Set track stop to the Iron track stop we made
*Set an IRON mine-cart to the stop
*delete every single conditions and leave it empty
*We do not want any conditions in it, we do not want it to take or give from any stockpile, nor do we want it to take any specific item. So we leave the below tab empty, except for the names
So I will re-cap this :
1. Add new track stop. 2. Click on iron track stop and name it. 3. Click on add mine-cart and add iron mine-cart. 4. Name the track-stop if you will. 5. Remove all conditions. 6. Let the items to be placed in be empty. 7. That should do it.
6. Now if the dumping into a wall and mine-cart with all empty and normal placement is there then it will work absolutely fine. There is only one way to test, fill it up with water or magma, it will drain the floors above its current floors, it will drain up to only 6/7 of the floor it is placed on. So the reason for its one floor lower placement. It is very important that you don't place the dump on the same floor as your desired draining floor.

== Magma Tapping ==
Magma Tapping has various methods, I will try to depict a very simple method:
*But before hand, there is a section in-game:
*Under Labour Tab
*Go to Stone use
This list gives you the list of magma safe materials, so in my case, I had a lot of dolomite, so I selected ( Allow dolomite to be used in normal stone jobs ). So I could make some magma safe grates and stuff. Another good idea is to use iron for all these magma operations.

So this is an approximate list of materials you'd want ready before going for magma pump
*Iron Pipe Section X 1
*Iron Blocks X 4 or 8
*Enormous Iron Cork-Screw X 1
*Iron Flood Gate X 2
*Iron Grates X 1
*Iron Mechanisms X as per need, because later on, we are going to need these a lot
*Iron Mine-cart
*A Portable Drain ( I will teach this )
*This is what you are looking forward to
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| [[File:Portable Drain Layout.PNG|thumb|Portable Drain Layout example]]
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*This is my Pump :
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| [[File:Pump.PNG|thumb|Magma Pump]]
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*This is magma below the Pump, the tile of magma has been channelled.
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| [[File:Below pump.PNG|thumb|View below the pump shown above]]
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Place the pump such that it is one tile ahead of the tile it is sucking from and place the direction of pumping carefully. We place the iron bars so that creatures don't come from underneath the magma into the fortress. The materials are made of iron so that the pump doesn't burn. The Door is placed as a precaution in case things don't work out as intended.
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| [[File:Pump working concept.png|thumb|Pumps working logic]]
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This is how it is intended to work, don't mind the burning trash, it just shows how non-fire proof materials melt to magma, whereas the pump, operator, grate, door and bars are safe, even the floodgate is safe and sound.
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| [[File:Magma Pumping.gif|thumb|Magma being pumped Gif File]]
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Now you know how to do it hopefully, good luck with the tapping. Some tips, when you hit warm rock, be exceptionally careful with it. Dig little little upwards and sideways to discover from what z level the warm rocks start, above that layer will be the pump. Also, better to have all materials ready before a magma man pays a visit through the hole you made in the magma sea. Yes, that will be the best I can explain it to you my dear reader.
This is the concept of the pump with things mentioned.

== Cave-in organising and executing ==
This is how a multi-floor cave-in is organised. This is the youtube video describing what is to be explained below now :
*[https://youtu.be/pW1CrP_IgWI?si=gHw5RCOOGtK7-AVl Planned Mass Cave-in]
* This image explains the concept of the video as to how to do it, and all.
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Cave in fundamental.png|thumb|Cave in logic]]
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We dig out the piston but the floors... 100 or perhaps 120.. 120 floor channelling? nah dude... This is a better alternative, a 100 or 120 floor digging itself takes an in-game year or so. So what we do is, above all these floors, make a support. on this support is a 5x5 square floor. This 5x5 square has a 3x3 hole in the centre. Attach the support to a lever, when all 100 or 120 floors are dug out, you just make sure all dwarves and creatures are away from these floors or it is instant death. So when you pull the lever, this 5x5 drops exactly on similar 5x5 floors supporting the piston. Every single floor below is destroyed. But the oiston is intact. Why? because it is supported by a support. So all that is left here is the piston alone, clean and beautiful. Now in our case, why is a piston shown? Why is this example describing a piston? Why a piston in a cave in? Because, that video shows the magma piston that is to be used in our guide and that video is a great example of how to clean multiple floors. Yes, even TwistedLogicgaming destroyed an entire island with a floor collapse. So now enough chit chat, lets go to a small summary.

== What have we learnt so far and why? ==
We have learnt
*To find the caverns to suitably dig for the piston.
*To cause a massive cave-in to dig the circumference of the magma piston.
*To carefully pump magma in a designated place.
*And then to drain it very effectively.

== ''''' Magma Piston ''''' ==
Video is right here :
* [https://youtu.be/OBEot6PJUYI?si=0QZeBdZ73xtznkmK Firing a Magma Piston]

*Let us get into this, this below image is just for reference: a general understanding of the entire process:
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:IMG 20230131 002636.jpg|thumb|Artistic Depiction of a Magma Piston]]
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*'''This is the top level : The Obsidian Regenerator'''
*An obsidian Regenerator servers one purpose,to recreate the blocks we dig at the base at the piston. The way this works is, we have a retracting bridge on exactly top of the magma piston head. This retractable bridge will have water on top of it 7/7. This draw bridge is covered on all sides. Water inlet and outlet is floodgate controlled. When we retract, the water 7/7 exactly falls down on the piston head creating 2/7 (minimum magma to be present) magma to obsidian. This completes the regeneration.
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| [[File:Obsidian regenerator water.PNG|thumb|A ready position obsidian regenerator]]
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*'''This is the level where magma forges will be build:'''
*When magma is pumped here, there needs to be micro-management else this magma that is being pumped will freely flow and become cold. If this magma entirely becomes cold, then the obsidian regenerator won't work. This causes the entire project to be fu(k3d because the absence of magma makes the entire repeatability of the project to fail. So a save before first pump is always advised.
*In this image, there are series of channels and slots dug out for the Forge placement. There are several levers controlling <Magma-Safe> draw-bridges below.
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| [[File:Piston Head and Designated Magma Forge Room.PNG|thumb|Piston Head]]
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*'''This is where the magma floods in:'''
*The bridges control the magma flow. Every single draw bridge is retracted before the first pump. The floodgate is a critical part and a grate installation is highly advised. Sequential opening and repeating of pumping further opening the bridges to allow more and more magma flow to make it minimum 4/4. In the first three piston drops, one magma forge will be running. Took me 3 pumps and mirco-management to get it running honestly
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| [[File:Under the Forges and Magin Magma Room.PNG|thumb|Magma Control Slots]]
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*'''This is how it looks post piston drop:'''
*The support has been pulled by the lever, the entire pillar/piston falls down. Upon falling down the area occupied by magma which is replaced by the piston is instantly teleported on top of it, hence the name " Magma Piston " also depicted in the fan-art posted before.
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| [[File:Post activation top.PNG|thumb|The top of the piston post activation]]
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*'''This is how the bottom design is:'''
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| [[File:Magma Room.PNG|thumb|Piston Bottom Support]]
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*'''This is how it looks when flooded with magma and piston drops down:'''
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| [[File:Post activation bottom.PNG|thumb|Activated magma piston]]
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*'''Magma Piston types -'''
*magma pistons are of two types specifically :
*Re-usable:-
*one such as ours with only a single z-level dropping into magma. This single z-level can be easily regenerated with water drop on magma at the piston top surface as shown in video
*Non-re-usable:-
*the one which is made for a single time use, use like a magma moat... what happens in this is, the piston literally drops in a massive tank full of magma, multiple z-levels deep. Such as 10 Length x 10 Breadth x 5 Levels, so 3,500 units of magma to be transferred. The upper surface must be prepared well to hold this magma as well to use else it can flood the fort leading massive Fun.
multiple z-level regeneration is not possible so this is a single use massive piston. Does the trick though.

== Cavern between piston ==
The Problem of Cavern occurring in between the piston parts.
Firstly, for a project like this, exploration of caverns is primarily advised. Radar isn't sufficient to pull off the direct exploration. The problem occurs when there is a small cavern and there ain't no perfect spot without cavern occurring in between the piston. So this is the method to solve that problem.

1. Make the top and bottom piston. The bottom piston is held by a support. The top piston is to be dropped but not directly. keep top and bottom ready.

2. Every single thing in between the top and bottom of pistons to be dug clean. Nothing but air between the top and bottom.

3. Now the top side piston column may have un-even bottom and the top-surface of the bottom piston can be un-even. We make it smooth 3x3 on top and bottom so that the mating surfaces are clean and 3x3 with nothing in between.

4. Drop top piston on bottom piston.

5. Now the part where the piston top is there , 1z level below is your magma pumping chamber and obsidian retainer tank is to be on its top and so on...

6. Now during your pumping process, somehow using the retainer and a very well thought out process you can increase the piston length but it is tedious.

7. So TLDR; clean the area between top and bottom surfaces between piston. Make mating faces clean 3x3 / 10 x 10 or whatever. drop topside and make the surfaces connect. Make arrangements and start pumping.

== The Significance of retracting bridge ==
In the room where magma is teleported above the piston when it drops is because the magma doesn't drip below. What is the use of teleporting massive amounts of magma and it legit drips down to where it was pumped from... One more factor is, if water were to fall in alone the pillar and connect to a piece of magma, it will attach the piston with the channel around leading to process disruption. Floor grates, flood gates didn't work in my case. Magma safe retractable bridges work excellently.
== Mega Piston Regnerator ==
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== Compound Magma Piston ==
Very advanced stuff, basically, you make pump stack in between and place a gigantic piston at the top. If there is a huge gap in between two caverns, the design can be implemented in between them. You can use reducer pistons or something like that as well.
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Magma piston

2023-12-09T16:32:22Z

Sniper231996: /* Compound Magma Piston */

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'''Magma pistons''' are used to move [[magma]] near the surface. This approach was developed by players as an alternative to [[screw pump#Pump stack|pump stack]]s. Magma pistons are used because they require less time and fewer precious materials to construct than pump stacks. However, magma pistons are a bit more complicated than pump stacks, so it takes more time to understand how to operate and build them.

== The concept ==
The piston method is based on a clever [[exploit|abuse]] of [[cave-in]] [[physics]]. The basic principle involves channeling out an area around a huge stone pillar, hundreds of z-levels tall, which will become the "piston" that drives magma to the top. Rest the piston on a single support, then carve out a tank at its base which will be filled with magma pumped from the magma sea. ('''Beware:''' building the piston directly over the magma sea will '''NOT''' work. The piston must be made entirely of ''natural'' (non-constructed) walls.) Once the tank has been filled, drop the piston by removing its support. Liquids displaced by a cave-in will "teleport" straight up to the nearest available space; here, the nearest available space will be the catchment area you thoughtfully prepared earlier atop the piston.

A simple magma piston works as shown in the following diagram:

'''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
~ = '''Magma'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
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When the support is destroyed, the wall sections in the middle will fall down into the magma. The magma will teleport to the top of the piston, as shown in the following diagram:

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== Construction ==
A magma piston is composed of 4-5 parts: the catchment area, the magma reservoir, the support, the piston, and the obsidian caster (optional).

=== Catchment area ===
:The '''catchment area''' is located at the top of the piston. After the piston is dropped, the magma will spread out around the catchment area. In a repeating magma piston, some of the magma is used to cast obsidian on top of the piston, in order to reuse it. The volume and size of the catchment area must be carefully calculated to ensure that you won't have too much or too little magma above the piston for casting. Ideally, you want the depth of the magma above the piston to be 2. If the depth is 1, then the magma might evaporate and you won't be able to repair your piston. If the depth is greater than 2, then you're wasting magma if you cast it into obsidian. You can also make the catchment area multiple z-levels deep. If you need a catchment area smaller than possible with bridges or floodgates, you may use a floor-less [[Floodgate#Placement|floodgate]] to prevent the magma entering that square, while keeping the piston free to fall.

=== Magma reservoir ===
:The '''magma reservoir''' is dug out near the magma sea. You can't actually drop the piston directly into the magma sea because the bottom of the magma sea is [[semi-molten rock]], and it will completely destroy any piston dropped into it. The magma reservoir is artificial, so it won't have a floor made of semi-molten rock. This will allow the piston to rest on the floor of your reservoir. The magma reservoir needs three parts: a magma inlet, a magma drain, and an access corridor. After letting magma in, and dropping the piston, you'll want to dig out the bottom of the piston so you can drop it again. To do that, you need to drain any excess magma and let your workers in through the access corridor.

=== Support ===
:The '''support''' is what prevents your piston from dropping until you decide to pull the firing lever. The support can be located either at the bottom of the piston, as shown in the simplified diagram, or at the side of the piston (shown in the following diagram). If the support is at the bottom of the piston, then the support and the mechanism it uses must both be [[magma-safe]]. If it's at the side, then neither need to be magma-safe. Here's an example of a side-mounted support:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
'''X''' = '''Up/Down stairs'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''
= = '''Constructed floor'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Side-mounted support'''
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:In this diagram, you can see the catchment area at the top, and the piston in the middle of the shaft. The support structure is to the left. When the support element collapses, the two constructed floors will become unsupported, and then the piston will collapse. The stairs and hatch to the left of the constructed floors allows for convenient reconstruction of the support.

=== Piston ===
:The '''piston''' is the heart of the scheme. It may be 100-200 z-levels long, so it will take quite a while for your miners to dig it out. You may encounter trouble with caverns. Ideally, you should scout out the caverns and find a clear path straight down. If you can't find such a path, you can fix the problem as follows:

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:First, smooth the top and bottom, like so:

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:Now drop the top of the piston on to the floor of the cavern. You can use a cave-in to destroy the stairs quickly, if you remove all up-stairs first.

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=== Obsidian caster ===
:The '''obsidian caster''' is what allows you to rebuild your piston and get more magma. It's an application of techniques drawn from [[obsidian farming]]. The caster just needs to precisely dump water into the catchment area in order to form obsidian. A caster is composed of two parts: a water inlet, and a retracting bridge. Here's a sample design:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
F = '''Closed floodgate'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with water'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with magma'''
~ = '''Magma'''
~ = '''Water'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
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|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|F
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|style="color: #00F; padding: 0"|±
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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:When you retract the bridge at the top, the water will fall straight down, and you'll get the following result:

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|±
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|P
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|}

== Operation ==
The general procedure for operating a repeatable magma piston is as follows:

#Pull your firing lever to collapse the side support, thus dropping the piston into the magma.
#In the magma reservoir, close the inlet and open the drain to empty the magma and allow workers in later.
#Retract the bridge of the obsidian caster to drop water onto magma and rebuild the piston.
#Extend the bridge of the obsidian caster and open the inlet floodgate, to refill your caster's water supply.
#Reconstruct the side support and re-link it to your firing lever.
#Pump/drain any magma you want to use out of the catchment area.
#Allow workers into the magma reservoir when it's safe and empty, and dig out the bottom of the piston.
#Get the workers out of the reservoir and lock the door.
#In the magma reservoir, close the drain and open the inlet to fill it with magma.
#Remember to close the inlet floodgate of your obsidian caster.
#Make sure that your side-support is clear.
#When the magma reservoir is full, use your firing lever to restart the process.

== More information ==
The original discussion of this trick, including how to make the piston reusable, can be found in [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59894.0 this forum thread].
[[ru:Magma piston]]
That being said, I will link this here so that those who attempt this concept in the premium version have access to this guide.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924657714

== Magma Piston ==
So here I will begin the editing of a new chapter in magma pistons after the premium version has been released. The work that Fenwah and others on bay12forums began is still going on.
This page teaches you to:
*Finding the right spot using Dwarven Sonar
*Induce multi floor cave-in (to channel multiple floors very fast)
*Magma Tapping (breaking into the magma sea to get a source of magma for magma reservoir)
*Using portable drain ( For draining magma )
*Using Supports to drop the piston ( massive pillar of rock, 120 blocks high )
*Using water to reload the piston

== Dwarven Sonar ==
Now, how to do it? it is mentioned as follows :
*Go to build -> farming -> farm plot
*Drag and drop a square at any plot that is suitable for farming, but make sure to only select the starter tile and not the placement click.
*Now drag a big square, do not end the placement, max size plot, now scroll to lower tiles
*When you drag the mouse wheel and go below, the places where farm plot is place-able is visible
*Underground in undiscovered regions, where there is farm plot, there is a cavern
*I have shown a gif of how to do it below, it shows what is written here applied, in full.
*We have discovered 3 caverns in the mentioned manner.
*Where ever there is a cavern, it is visible by a different manner in placement pop-up
*Now when you discover the caverns, note the levels where you discover them and dig carefully.
*Cancel the placement option
Here is the big Gif, I have cropped the empty frames in the GIf. The relevant frames are kept in here.

{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Dwarven Sonar GIF 2.gif|thumb|The Sonar in action]]
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== Detailed Video ==
*5th April 2023:
*Youtube video:
[https://youtu.be/fnVPvjCLXvA?si=zhNOla5LOzKILDuW Magma Piston Video]

== Making a Portable Drain ==

A portable drain is a mine-cart dumping infinite amounts of water in a wall .
A quick TL;DR
*Make a track stop dumping into wall
*Place (Magma-safe material for magma) mine-cart on it with empty conditions/give or take stockpiles/
*Make sure the set-up is made one floor below the region to be drained
*one can place a pump, pumping fluid in to the mine-cart but then that needs automation
1. What you need is:
*A mine-cart -> Material depends on what you intend it for.
*A proper track stop - that - dumps - in to - a - wall, (maximum friction )
2. This is my portable magma drain design:
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Portable Drain Layout.PNG|thumb|Portable Drain Layout example]]
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* Water -> Any mine-cart
*Magma -> Magma-safe material for cart
*The location of the drain is important.
*I usually channel a room and make it 1-Z level low, so the entire magma goes to the cart and drainsup, leaving the upper floor totally empty when needed.
*This will clear it up.
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Drain explained.png|thumb|Portable Drain Logic]]
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3. Now we set the IRON drain dump stop:
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| [[File:Drain dump stop.png|thumb|Drain Dump designation]]
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4. Now we set the drain dump mine-cart
*Go to set mine-cart hauling routes, add a new route, then look at the index described below:
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Minecart designations.png|thumb|Minecart icons explained]]
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5. Now we do this:
*Set track stop to the Iron track stop we made
*Set an IRON mine-cart to the stop
*delete every single conditions and leave it empty
*We do not want any conditions in it, we do not want it to take or give from any stockpile, nor do we want it to take any specific item. So we leave the below tab empty, except for the names
So I will re-cap this :
1. Add new track stop. 2. Click on iron track stop and name it. 3. Click on add mine-cart and add iron mine-cart. 4. Name the track-stop if you will. 5. Remove all conditions. 6. Let the items to be placed in be empty. 7. That should do it.
6. Now if the dumping into a wall and mine-cart with all empty and normal placement is there then it will work absolutely fine. There is only one way to test, fill it up with water or magma, it will drain the floors above its current floors, it will drain up to only 6/7 of the floor it is placed on. So the reason for its one floor lower placement. It is very important that you don't place the dump on the same floor as your desired draining floor.

== Magma Tapping ==
Magma Tapping has various methods, I will try to depict a very simple method:
*But before hand, there is a section in-game:
*Under Labour Tab
*Go to Stone use
This list gives you the list of magma safe materials, so in my case, I had a lot of dolomite, so I selected ( Allow dolomite to be used in normal stone jobs ). So I could make some magma safe grates and stuff. Another good idea is to use iron for all these magma operations.

So this is an approximate list of materials you'd want ready before going for magma pump
*Iron Pipe Section X 1
*Iron Blocks X 4 or 8
*Enormous Iron Cork-Screw X 1
*Iron Flood Gate X 2
*Iron Grates X 1
*Iron Mechanisms X as per need, because later on, we are going to need these a lot
*Iron Mine-cart
*A Portable Drain ( I will teach this )
*This is what you are looking forward to
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Portable Drain Layout.PNG|thumb|Portable Drain Layout example]]
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*This is my Pump :
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| [[File:Pump.PNG|thumb|Magma Pump]]
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*This is magma below the Pump, the tile of magma has been channelled.
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| [[File:Below pump.PNG|thumb|View below the pump shown above]]
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Place the pump such that it is one tile ahead of the tile it is sucking from and place the direction of pumping carefully. We place the iron bars so that creatures don't come from underneath the magma into the fortress. The materials are made of iron so that the pump doesn't burn. The Door is placed as a precaution in case things don't work out as intended.
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Pump working concept.png|thumb|Pumps working logic]]
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This is how it is intended to work, don't mind the burning trash, it just shows how non-fire proof materials melt to magma, whereas the pump, operator, grate, door and bars are safe, even the floodgate is safe and sound.
{| class="wikitable"
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! 5
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| [[File:Magma Pumping.gif|thumb|Magma being pumped Gif File]]
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Now you know how to do it hopefully, good luck with the tapping. Some tips, when you hit warm rock, be exceptionally careful with it. Dig little little upwards and sideways to discover from what z level the warm rocks start, above that layer will be the pump. Also, better to have all materials ready before a magma man pays a visit through the hole you made in the magma sea. Yes, that will be the best I can explain it to you my dear reader.
This is the concept of the pump with things mentioned.

== Cave-in organising and executing ==
This is how a multi-floor cave-in is organised. This is the youtube video describing what is to be explained below now :
*[https://youtu.be/pW1CrP_IgWI?si=gHw5RCOOGtK7-AVl Planned Mass Cave-in]
* This image explains the concept of the video as to how to do it, and all.
{| class="wikitable"
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! Image
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| [[File:Cave in fundamental.png|thumb|Cave in logic]]
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We dig out the piston but the floors... 100 or perhaps 120.. 120 floor channelling? nah dude... This is a better alternative, a 100 or 120 floor digging itself takes an in-game year or so. So what we do is, above all these floors, make a support. on this support is a 5x5 square floor. This 5x5 square has a 3x3 hole in the centre. Attach the support to a lever, when all 100 or 120 floors are dug out, you just make sure all dwarves and creatures are away from these floors or it is instant death. So when you pull the lever, this 5x5 drops exactly on similar 5x5 floors supporting the piston. Every single floor below is destroyed. But the oiston is intact. Why? because it is supported by a support. So all that is left here is the piston alone, clean and beautiful. Now in our case, why is a piston shown? Why is this example describing a piston? Why a piston in a cave in? Because, that video shows the magma piston that is to be used in our guide and that video is a great example of how to clean multiple floors. Yes, even TwistedLogicgaming destroyed an entire island with a floor collapse. So now enough chit chat, lets go to a small summary.

== What have we learnt so far and why? ==
We have learnt
*To find the caverns to suitably dig for the piston.
*To cause a massive cave-in to dig the circumference of the magma piston.
*To carefully pump magma in a designated place.
*And then to drain it very effectively.

== ''''' Magma Piston ''''' ==
Video is right here :
* [https://youtu.be/OBEot6PJUYI?si=0QZeBdZ73xtznkmK Firing a Magma Piston]

*Let us get into this, this below image is just for reference: a general understanding of the entire process:
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:IMG 20230131 002636.jpg|thumb|Artistic Depiction of a Magma Piston]]
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*'''This is the top level : The Obsidian Regenerator'''
*An obsidian Regenerator servers one purpose,to recreate the blocks we dig at the base at the piston. The way this works is, we have a retracting bridge on exactly top of the magma piston head. This retractable bridge will have water on top of it 7/7. This draw bridge is covered on all sides. Water inlet and outlet is floodgate controlled. When we retract, the water 7/7 exactly falls down on the piston head creating 2/7 (minimum magma to be present) magma to obsidian. This completes the regeneration.
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Obsidian regenerator water.PNG|thumb|A ready position obsidian regenerator]]
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*'''This is the level where magma forges will be build:'''
*When magma is pumped here, there needs to be micro-management else this magma that is being pumped will freely flow and become cold. If this magma entirely becomes cold, then the obsidian regenerator won't work. This causes the entire project to be fu(k3d because the absence of magma makes the entire repeatability of the project to fail. So a save before first pump is always advised.
*In this image, there are series of channels and slots dug out for the Forge placement. There are several levers controlling <Magma-Safe> draw-bridges below.
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| [[File:Piston Head and Designated Magma Forge Room.PNG|thumb|Piston Head]]
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*'''This is where the magma floods in:'''
*The bridges control the magma flow. Every single draw bridge is retracted before the first pump. The floodgate is a critical part and a grate installation is highly advised. Sequential opening and repeating of pumping further opening the bridges to allow more and more magma flow to make it minimum 4/4. In the first three piston drops, one magma forge will be running. Took me 3 pumps and mirco-management to get it running honestly
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| [[File:Under the Forges and Magin Magma Room.PNG|thumb|Magma Control Slots]]
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*'''This is how it looks post piston drop:'''
*The support has been pulled by the lever, the entire pillar/piston falls down. Upon falling down the area occupied by magma which is replaced by the piston is instantly teleported on top of it, hence the name " Magma Piston " also depicted in the fan-art posted before.
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Post activation top.PNG|thumb|The top of the piston post activation]]
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*'''This is how the bottom design is:'''
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| [[File:Magma Room.PNG|thumb|Piston Bottom Support]]
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*'''This is how it looks when flooded with magma and piston drops down:'''
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| [[File:Post activation bottom.PNG|thumb|Activated magma piston]]
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*'''Magma Piston types -'''
*magma pistons are of two types specifically :
*Re-usable:-
*one such as ours with only a single z-level dropping into magma. This single z-level can be easily regenerated with water drop on magma at the piston top surface as shown in video
*Non-re-usable:-
*the one which is made for a single time use, use like a magma moat... what happens in this is, the piston literally drops in a massive tank full of magma, multiple z-levels deep. Such as 10 Length x 10 Breadth x 5 Levels, so 3,500 units of magma to be transferred. The upper surface must be prepared well to hold this magma as well to use else it can flood the fort leading massive Fun.
multiple z-level regeneration is not possible so this is a single use massive piston. Does the trick though.

== Cavern between piston ==
The Problem of Cavern occurring in between the piston parts.
Firstly, for a project like this, exploration of caverns is primarily advised. Radar isn't sufficient to pull off the direct exploration. The problem occurs when there is a small cavern and there ain't no perfect spot without cavern occurring in between the piston. So this is the method to solve that problem.

1. Make the top and bottom piston. The bottom piston is held by a support. The top piston is to be dropped but not directly. keep top and bottom ready.

2. Every single thing in between the top and bottom of pistons to be dug clean. Nothing but air between the top and bottom.

3. Now the top side piston column may have un-even bottom and the top-surface of the bottom piston can be un-even. We make it smooth 3x3 on top and bottom so that the mating surfaces are clean and 3x3 with nothing in between.

4. Drop top piston on bottom piston.

5. Now the part where the piston top is there , 1z level below is your magma pumping chamber and obsidian retainer tank is to be on its top and so on...

6. Now during your pumping process, somehow using the retainer and a very well thought out process you can increase the piston length but it is tedious.

7. So TLDR; clean the area between top and bottom surfaces between piston. Make mating faces clean 3x3 / 10 x 10 or whatever. drop topside and make the surfaces connect. Make arrangements and start pumping.

== The Significance of retracting bridge ==
In the room where magma is teleported above the piston when it drops is because the magma doesn't drip below. What is the use of teleporting massive amounts of magma and it legit drips down to where it was pumped from... One more factor is, if water were to fall in alone the pillar and connect to a piece of magma, it will attach the piston with the channel around leading to process disruption. Floor grates, flood gates didn't work in my case. Magma safe retractable bridges work excellently.
== Mega Piston Regnerator ==
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== Compound Magma Piston ==
Very advanced stuff, basically, you make pump stack in between and place a gigantic piston at the top. If there is a huge gap in between two caverns, the design can be implemented in between them. You can use reducer pistons or something like that as well.
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Magma piston

2023-12-09T16:32:12Z

Sniper231996: /* Compound Magma Piston */

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{Projects}}
{{av}}
'''Magma pistons''' are used to move [[magma]] near the surface. This approach was developed by players as an alternative to [[screw pump#Pump stack|pump stack]]s. Magma pistons are used because they require less time and fewer precious materials to construct than pump stacks. However, magma pistons are a bit more complicated than pump stacks, so it takes more time to understand how to operate and build them.

== The concept ==
The piston method is based on a clever [[exploit|abuse]] of [[cave-in]] [[physics]]. The basic principle involves channeling out an area around a huge stone pillar, hundreds of z-levels tall, which will become the "piston" that drives magma to the top. Rest the piston on a single support, then carve out a tank at its base which will be filled with magma pumped from the magma sea. ('''Beware:''' building the piston directly over the magma sea will '''NOT''' work. The piston must be made entirely of ''natural'' (non-constructed) walls.) Once the tank has been filled, drop the piston by removing its support. Liquids displaced by a cave-in will "teleport" straight up to the nearest available space; here, the nearest available space will be the catchment area you thoughtfully prepared earlier atop the piston.

A simple magma piston works as shown in the following diagram:

'''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
~ = '''Magma'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Basic magma piston design (side view)'''
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When the support is destroyed, the wall sections in the middle will fall down into the magma. The magma will teleport to the top of the piston, as shown in the following diagram:

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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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== Construction ==
A magma piston is composed of 4-5 parts: the catchment area, the magma reservoir, the support, the piston, and the obsidian caster (optional).

=== Catchment area ===
:The '''catchment area''' is located at the top of the piston. After the piston is dropped, the magma will spread out around the catchment area. In a repeating magma piston, some of the magma is used to cast obsidian on top of the piston, in order to reuse it. The volume and size of the catchment area must be carefully calculated to ensure that you won't have too much or too little magma above the piston for casting. Ideally, you want the depth of the magma above the piston to be 2. If the depth is 1, then the magma might evaporate and you won't be able to repair your piston. If the depth is greater than 2, then you're wasting magma if you cast it into obsidian. You can also make the catchment area multiple z-levels deep. If you need a catchment area smaller than possible with bridges or floodgates, you may use a floor-less [[Floodgate#Placement|floodgate]] to prevent the magma entering that square, while keeping the piston free to fall.

=== Magma reservoir ===
:The '''magma reservoir''' is dug out near the magma sea. You can't actually drop the piston directly into the magma sea because the bottom of the magma sea is [[semi-molten rock]], and it will completely destroy any piston dropped into it. The magma reservoir is artificial, so it won't have a floor made of semi-molten rock. This will allow the piston to rest on the floor of your reservoir. The magma reservoir needs three parts: a magma inlet, a magma drain, and an access corridor. After letting magma in, and dropping the piston, you'll want to dig out the bottom of the piston so you can drop it again. To do that, you need to drain any excess magma and let your workers in through the access corridor.

=== Support ===
:The '''support''' is what prevents your piston from dropping until you decide to pull the firing lever. The support can be located either at the bottom of the piston, as shown in the simplified diagram, or at the side of the piston (shown in the following diagram). If the support is at the bottom of the piston, then the support and the mechanism it uses must both be [[magma-safe]]. If it's at the side, then neither need to be magma-safe. Here's an example of a side-mounted support:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
'''X''' = '''Up/Down stairs'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''
= = '''Constructed floor'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
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:In this diagram, you can see the catchment area at the top, and the piston in the middle of the shaft. The support structure is to the left. When the support element collapses, the two constructed floors will become unsupported, and then the piston will collapse. The stairs and hatch to the left of the constructed floors allows for convenient reconstruction of the support.

=== Piston ===
:The '''piston''' is the heart of the scheme. It may be 100-200 z-levels long, so it will take quite a while for your miners to dig it out. You may encounter trouble with caverns. Ideally, you should scout out the caverns and find a clear path straight down. If you can't find such a path, you can fix the problem as follows:

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:First, smooth the top and bottom, like so:

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:Now drop the top of the piston on to the floor of the cavern. You can use a cave-in to destroy the stairs quickly, if you remove all up-stairs first.

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=== Obsidian caster ===
:The '''obsidian caster''' is what allows you to rebuild your piston and get more magma. It's an application of techniques drawn from [[obsidian farming]]. The caster just needs to precisely dump water into the catchment area in order to form obsidian. A caster is composed of two parts: a water inlet, and a retracting bridge. Here's a sample design:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
F = '''Closed floodgate'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with water'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with magma'''
~ = '''Magma'''
~ = '''Water'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
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:When you retract the bridge at the top, the water will fall straight down, and you'll get the following result:

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== Operation ==
The general procedure for operating a repeatable magma piston is as follows:

#Pull your firing lever to collapse the side support, thus dropping the piston into the magma.
#In the magma reservoir, close the inlet and open the drain to empty the magma and allow workers in later.
#Retract the bridge of the obsidian caster to drop water onto magma and rebuild the piston.
#Extend the bridge of the obsidian caster and open the inlet floodgate, to refill your caster's water supply.
#Reconstruct the side support and re-link it to your firing lever.
#Pump/drain any magma you want to use out of the catchment area.
#Allow workers into the magma reservoir when it's safe and empty, and dig out the bottom of the piston.
#Get the workers out of the reservoir and lock the door.
#In the magma reservoir, close the drain and open the inlet to fill it with magma.
#Remember to close the inlet floodgate of your obsidian caster.
#Make sure that your side-support is clear.
#When the magma reservoir is full, use your firing lever to restart the process.

== More information ==
The original discussion of this trick, including how to make the piston reusable, can be found in [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59894.0 this forum thread].
[[ru:Magma piston]]
That being said, I will link this here so that those who attempt this concept in the premium version have access to this guide.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924657714

== Magma Piston ==
So here I will begin the editing of a new chapter in magma pistons after the premium version has been released. The work that Fenwah and others on bay12forums began is still going on.
This page teaches you to:
*Finding the right spot using Dwarven Sonar
*Induce multi floor cave-in (to channel multiple floors very fast)
*Magma Tapping (breaking into the magma sea to get a source of magma for magma reservoir)
*Using portable drain ( For draining magma )
*Using Supports to drop the piston ( massive pillar of rock, 120 blocks high )
*Using water to reload the piston

== Dwarven Sonar ==
Now, how to do it? it is mentioned as follows :
*Go to build -> farming -> farm plot
*Drag and drop a square at any plot that is suitable for farming, but make sure to only select the starter tile and not the placement click.
*Now drag a big square, do not end the placement, max size plot, now scroll to lower tiles
*When you drag the mouse wheel and go below, the places where farm plot is place-able is visible
*Underground in undiscovered regions, where there is farm plot, there is a cavern
*I have shown a gif of how to do it below, it shows what is written here applied, in full.
*We have discovered 3 caverns in the mentioned manner.
*Where ever there is a cavern, it is visible by a different manner in placement pop-up
*Now when you discover the caverns, note the levels where you discover them and dig carefully.
*Cancel the placement option
Here is the big Gif, I have cropped the empty frames in the GIf. The relevant frames are kept in here.

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== Detailed Video ==
*5th April 2023:
*Youtube video:
[https://youtu.be/fnVPvjCLXvA?si=zhNOla5LOzKILDuW Magma Piston Video]

== Making a Portable Drain ==

A portable drain is a mine-cart dumping infinite amounts of water in a wall .
A quick TL;DR
*Make a track stop dumping into wall
*Place (Magma-safe material for magma) mine-cart on it with empty conditions/give or take stockpiles/
*Make sure the set-up is made one floor below the region to be drained
*one can place a pump, pumping fluid in to the mine-cart but then that needs automation
1. What you need is:
*A mine-cart -> Material depends on what you intend it for.
*A proper track stop - that - dumps - in to - a - wall, (maximum friction )
2. This is my portable magma drain design:
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* Water -> Any mine-cart
*Magma -> Magma-safe material for cart
*The location of the drain is important.
*I usually channel a room and make it 1-Z level low, so the entire magma goes to the cart and drainsup, leaving the upper floor totally empty when needed.
*This will clear it up.
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3. Now we set the IRON drain dump stop:
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4. Now we set the drain dump mine-cart
*Go to set mine-cart hauling routes, add a new route, then look at the index described below:
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5. Now we do this:
*Set track stop to the Iron track stop we made
*Set an IRON mine-cart to the stop
*delete every single conditions and leave it empty
*We do not want any conditions in it, we do not want it to take or give from any stockpile, nor do we want it to take any specific item. So we leave the below tab empty, except for the names
So I will re-cap this :
1. Add new track stop. 2. Click on iron track stop and name it. 3. Click on add mine-cart and add iron mine-cart. 4. Name the track-stop if you will. 5. Remove all conditions. 6. Let the items to be placed in be empty. 7. That should do it.
6. Now if the dumping into a wall and mine-cart with all empty and normal placement is there then it will work absolutely fine. There is only one way to test, fill it up with water or magma, it will drain the floors above its current floors, it will drain up to only 6/7 of the floor it is placed on. So the reason for its one floor lower placement. It is very important that you don't place the dump on the same floor as your desired draining floor.

== Magma Tapping ==
Magma Tapping has various methods, I will try to depict a very simple method:
*But before hand, there is a section in-game:
*Under Labour Tab
*Go to Stone use
This list gives you the list of magma safe materials, so in my case, I had a lot of dolomite, so I selected ( Allow dolomite to be used in normal stone jobs ). So I could make some magma safe grates and stuff. Another good idea is to use iron for all these magma operations.

So this is an approximate list of materials you'd want ready before going for magma pump
*Iron Pipe Section X 1
*Iron Blocks X 4 or 8
*Enormous Iron Cork-Screw X 1
*Iron Flood Gate X 2
*Iron Grates X 1
*Iron Mechanisms X as per need, because later on, we are going to need these a lot
*Iron Mine-cart
*A Portable Drain ( I will teach this )
*This is what you are looking forward to
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*This is my Pump :
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*This is magma below the Pump, the tile of magma has been channelled.
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| [[File:Below pump.PNG|thumb|View below the pump shown above]]
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Place the pump such that it is one tile ahead of the tile it is sucking from and place the direction of pumping carefully. We place the iron bars so that creatures don't come from underneath the magma into the fortress. The materials are made of iron so that the pump doesn't burn. The Door is placed as a precaution in case things don't work out as intended.
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This is how it is intended to work, don't mind the burning trash, it just shows how non-fire proof materials melt to magma, whereas the pump, operator, grate, door and bars are safe, even the floodgate is safe and sound.
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Now you know how to do it hopefully, good luck with the tapping. Some tips, when you hit warm rock, be exceptionally careful with it. Dig little little upwards and sideways to discover from what z level the warm rocks start, above that layer will be the pump. Also, better to have all materials ready before a magma man pays a visit through the hole you made in the magma sea. Yes, that will be the best I can explain it to you my dear reader.
This is the concept of the pump with things mentioned.

== Cave-in organising and executing ==
This is how a multi-floor cave-in is organised. This is the youtube video describing what is to be explained below now :
*[https://youtu.be/pW1CrP_IgWI?si=gHw5RCOOGtK7-AVl Planned Mass Cave-in]
* This image explains the concept of the video as to how to do it, and all.
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We dig out the piston but the floors... 100 or perhaps 120.. 120 floor channelling? nah dude... This is a better alternative, a 100 or 120 floor digging itself takes an in-game year or so. So what we do is, above all these floors, make a support. on this support is a 5x5 square floor. This 5x5 square has a 3x3 hole in the centre. Attach the support to a lever, when all 100 or 120 floors are dug out, you just make sure all dwarves and creatures are away from these floors or it is instant death. So when you pull the lever, this 5x5 drops exactly on similar 5x5 floors supporting the piston. Every single floor below is destroyed. But the oiston is intact. Why? because it is supported by a support. So all that is left here is the piston alone, clean and beautiful. Now in our case, why is a piston shown? Why is this example describing a piston? Why a piston in a cave in? Because, that video shows the magma piston that is to be used in our guide and that video is a great example of how to clean multiple floors. Yes, even TwistedLogicgaming destroyed an entire island with a floor collapse. So now enough chit chat, lets go to a small summary.

== What have we learnt so far and why? ==
We have learnt
*To find the caverns to suitably dig for the piston.
*To cause a massive cave-in to dig the circumference of the magma piston.
*To carefully pump magma in a designated place.
*And then to drain it very effectively.

== ''''' Magma Piston ''''' ==
Video is right here :
* [https://youtu.be/OBEot6PJUYI?si=0QZeBdZ73xtznkmK Firing a Magma Piston]

*Let us get into this, this below image is just for reference: a general understanding of the entire process:
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| [[File:IMG 20230131 002636.jpg|thumb|Artistic Depiction of a Magma Piston]]
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*'''This is the top level : The Obsidian Regenerator'''
*An obsidian Regenerator servers one purpose,to recreate the blocks we dig at the base at the piston. The way this works is, we have a retracting bridge on exactly top of the magma piston head. This retractable bridge will have water on top of it 7/7. This draw bridge is covered on all sides. Water inlet and outlet is floodgate controlled. When we retract, the water 7/7 exactly falls down on the piston head creating 2/7 (minimum magma to be present) magma to obsidian. This completes the regeneration.
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*'''This is the level where magma forges will be build:'''
*When magma is pumped here, there needs to be micro-management else this magma that is being pumped will freely flow and become cold. If this magma entirely becomes cold, then the obsidian regenerator won't work. This causes the entire project to be fu(k3d because the absence of magma makes the entire repeatability of the project to fail. So a save before first pump is always advised.
*In this image, there are series of channels and slots dug out for the Forge placement. There are several levers controlling <Magma-Safe> draw-bridges below.
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*'''This is where the magma floods in:'''
*The bridges control the magma flow. Every single draw bridge is retracted before the first pump. The floodgate is a critical part and a grate installation is highly advised. Sequential opening and repeating of pumping further opening the bridges to allow more and more magma flow to make it minimum 4/4. In the first three piston drops, one magma forge will be running. Took me 3 pumps and mirco-management to get it running honestly
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*'''This is how it looks post piston drop:'''
*The support has been pulled by the lever, the entire pillar/piston falls down. Upon falling down the area occupied by magma which is replaced by the piston is instantly teleported on top of it, hence the name " Magma Piston " also depicted in the fan-art posted before.
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*'''This is how the bottom design is:'''
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*'''This is how it looks when flooded with magma and piston drops down:'''
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*'''Magma Piston types -'''
*magma pistons are of two types specifically :
*Re-usable:-
*one such as ours with only a single z-level dropping into magma. This single z-level can be easily regenerated with water drop on magma at the piston top surface as shown in video
*Non-re-usable:-
*the one which is made for a single time use, use like a magma moat... what happens in this is, the piston literally drops in a massive tank full of magma, multiple z-levels deep. Such as 10 Length x 10 Breadth x 5 Levels, so 3,500 units of magma to be transferred. The upper surface must be prepared well to hold this magma as well to use else it can flood the fort leading massive Fun.
multiple z-level regeneration is not possible so this is a single use massive piston. Does the trick though.

== Cavern between piston ==
The Problem of Cavern occurring in between the piston parts.
Firstly, for a project like this, exploration of caverns is primarily advised. Radar isn't sufficient to pull off the direct exploration. The problem occurs when there is a small cavern and there ain't no perfect spot without cavern occurring in between the piston. So this is the method to solve that problem.

1. Make the top and bottom piston. The bottom piston is held by a support. The top piston is to be dropped but not directly. keep top and bottom ready.

2. Every single thing in between the top and bottom of pistons to be dug clean. Nothing but air between the top and bottom.

3. Now the top side piston column may have un-even bottom and the top-surface of the bottom piston can be un-even. We make it smooth 3x3 on top and bottom so that the mating surfaces are clean and 3x3 with nothing in between.

4. Drop top piston on bottom piston.

5. Now the part where the piston top is there , 1z level below is your magma pumping chamber and obsidian retainer tank is to be on its top and so on...

6. Now during your pumping process, somehow using the retainer and a very well thought out process you can increase the piston length but it is tedious.

7. So TLDR; clean the area between top and bottom surfaces between piston. Make mating faces clean 3x3 / 10 x 10 or whatever. drop topside and make the surfaces connect. Make arrangements and start pumping.

== The Significance of retracting bridge ==
In the room where magma is teleported above the piston when it drops is because the magma doesn't drip below. What is the use of teleporting massive amounts of magma and it legit drips down to where it was pumped from... One more factor is, if water were to fall in alone the pillar and connect to a piece of magma, it will attach the piston with the channel around leading to process disruption. Floor grates, flood gates didn't work in my case. Magma safe retractable bridges work excellently.
== Mega Piston Regnerator ==
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== Compound Magma Piston ==
Very advanced stuff, basically, you make pump stack in between and place a gigantic piston at the top. If there is a huge gap in between two caverns, the design can be implemented in between them. You can use reducer pistons or something like that as well.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
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Magma piston

2023-12-09T16:31:24Z

Sniper231996: /* Mega Piston Regnerator */

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'''Magma pistons''' are used to move [[magma]] near the surface. This approach was developed by players as an alternative to [[screw pump#Pump stack|pump stack]]s. Magma pistons are used because they require less time and fewer precious materials to construct than pump stacks. However, magma pistons are a bit more complicated than pump stacks, so it takes more time to understand how to operate and build them.

== The concept ==
The piston method is based on a clever [[exploit|abuse]] of [[cave-in]] [[physics]]. The basic principle involves channeling out an area around a huge stone pillar, hundreds of z-levels tall, which will become the "piston" that drives magma to the top. Rest the piston on a single support, then carve out a tank at its base which will be filled with magma pumped from the magma sea. ('''Beware:''' building the piston directly over the magma sea will '''NOT''' work. The piston must be made entirely of ''natural'' (non-constructed) walls.) Once the tank has been filled, drop the piston by removing its support. Liquids displaced by a cave-in will "teleport" straight up to the nearest available space; here, the nearest available space will be the catchment area you thoughtfully prepared earlier atop the piston.

A simple magma piston works as shown in the following diagram:

'''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
~ = '''Magma'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''

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When the support is destroyed, the wall sections in the middle will fall down into the magma. The magma will teleport to the top of the piston, as shown in the following diagram:

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== Construction ==
A magma piston is composed of 4-5 parts: the catchment area, the magma reservoir, the support, the piston, and the obsidian caster (optional).

=== Catchment area ===
:The '''catchment area''' is located at the top of the piston. After the piston is dropped, the magma will spread out around the catchment area. In a repeating magma piston, some of the magma is used to cast obsidian on top of the piston, in order to reuse it. The volume and size of the catchment area must be carefully calculated to ensure that you won't have too much or too little magma above the piston for casting. Ideally, you want the depth of the magma above the piston to be 2. If the depth is 1, then the magma might evaporate and you won't be able to repair your piston. If the depth is greater than 2, then you're wasting magma if you cast it into obsidian. You can also make the catchment area multiple z-levels deep. If you need a catchment area smaller than possible with bridges or floodgates, you may use a floor-less [[Floodgate#Placement|floodgate]] to prevent the magma entering that square, while keeping the piston free to fall.

=== Magma reservoir ===
:The '''magma reservoir''' is dug out near the magma sea. You can't actually drop the piston directly into the magma sea because the bottom of the magma sea is [[semi-molten rock]], and it will completely destroy any piston dropped into it. The magma reservoir is artificial, so it won't have a floor made of semi-molten rock. This will allow the piston to rest on the floor of your reservoir. The magma reservoir needs three parts: a magma inlet, a magma drain, and an access corridor. After letting magma in, and dropping the piston, you'll want to dig out the bottom of the piston so you can drop it again. To do that, you need to drain any excess magma and let your workers in through the access corridor.

=== Support ===
:The '''support''' is what prevents your piston from dropping until you decide to pull the firing lever. The support can be located either at the bottom of the piston, as shown in the simplified diagram, or at the side of the piston (shown in the following diagram). If the support is at the bottom of the piston, then the support and the mechanism it uses must both be [[magma-safe]]. If it's at the side, then neither need to be magma-safe. Here's an example of a side-mounted support:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
'''X''' = '''Up/Down stairs'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''
= = '''Constructed floor'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
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:In this diagram, you can see the catchment area at the top, and the piston in the middle of the shaft. The support structure is to the left. When the support element collapses, the two constructed floors will become unsupported, and then the piston will collapse. The stairs and hatch to the left of the constructed floors allows for convenient reconstruction of the support.

=== Piston ===
:The '''piston''' is the heart of the scheme. It may be 100-200 z-levels long, so it will take quite a while for your miners to dig it out. You may encounter trouble with caverns. Ideally, you should scout out the caverns and find a clear path straight down. If you can't find such a path, you can fix the problem as follows:

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:First, smooth the top and bottom, like so:

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:Now drop the top of the piston on to the floor of the cavern. You can use a cave-in to destroy the stairs quickly, if you remove all up-stairs first.

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=== Obsidian caster ===
:The '''obsidian caster''' is what allows you to rebuild your piston and get more magma. It's an application of techniques drawn from [[obsidian farming]]. The caster just needs to precisely dump water into the catchment area in order to form obsidian. A caster is composed of two parts: a water inlet, and a retracting bridge. Here's a sample design:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
F = '''Closed floodgate'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with water'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with magma'''
~ = '''Magma'''
~ = '''Water'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Obsidian caster'''
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #00F; padding: 0"|~
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|±
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|~
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|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|±
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:When you retract the bridge at the top, the water will fall straight down, and you'll get the following result:

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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|±
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|P
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|}

== Operation ==
The general procedure for operating a repeatable magma piston is as follows:

#Pull your firing lever to collapse the side support, thus dropping the piston into the magma.
#In the magma reservoir, close the inlet and open the drain to empty the magma and allow workers in later.
#Retract the bridge of the obsidian caster to drop water onto magma and rebuild the piston.
#Extend the bridge of the obsidian caster and open the inlet floodgate, to refill your caster's water supply.
#Reconstruct the side support and re-link it to your firing lever.
#Pump/drain any magma you want to use out of the catchment area.
#Allow workers into the magma reservoir when it's safe and empty, and dig out the bottom of the piston.
#Get the workers out of the reservoir and lock the door.
#In the magma reservoir, close the drain and open the inlet to fill it with magma.
#Remember to close the inlet floodgate of your obsidian caster.
#Make sure that your side-support is clear.
#When the magma reservoir is full, use your firing lever to restart the process.

== More information ==
The original discussion of this trick, including how to make the piston reusable, can be found in [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59894.0 this forum thread].
[[ru:Magma piston]]
That being said, I will link this here so that those who attempt this concept in the premium version have access to this guide.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924657714

== Magma Piston ==
So here I will begin the editing of a new chapter in magma pistons after the premium version has been released. The work that Fenwah and others on bay12forums began is still going on.
This page teaches you to:
*Finding the right spot using Dwarven Sonar
*Induce multi floor cave-in (to channel multiple floors very fast)
*Magma Tapping (breaking into the magma sea to get a source of magma for magma reservoir)
*Using portable drain ( For draining magma )
*Using Supports to drop the piston ( massive pillar of rock, 120 blocks high )
*Using water to reload the piston

== Dwarven Sonar ==
Now, how to do it? it is mentioned as follows :
*Go to build -> farming -> farm plot
*Drag and drop a square at any plot that is suitable for farming, but make sure to only select the starter tile and not the placement click.
*Now drag a big square, do not end the placement, max size plot, now scroll to lower tiles
*When you drag the mouse wheel and go below, the places where farm plot is place-able is visible
*Underground in undiscovered regions, where there is farm plot, there is a cavern
*I have shown a gif of how to do it below, it shows what is written here applied, in full.
*We have discovered 3 caverns in the mentioned manner.
*Where ever there is a cavern, it is visible by a different manner in placement pop-up
*Now when you discover the caverns, note the levels where you discover them and dig carefully.
*Cancel the placement option
Here is the big Gif, I have cropped the empty frames in the GIf. The relevant frames are kept in here.

{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Dwarven Sonar GIF 2.gif|thumb|The Sonar in action]]
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== Detailed Video ==
*5th April 2023:
*Youtube video:
[https://youtu.be/fnVPvjCLXvA?si=zhNOla5LOzKILDuW Magma Piston Video]

== Making a Portable Drain ==

A portable drain is a mine-cart dumping infinite amounts of water in a wall .
A quick TL;DR
*Make a track stop dumping into wall
*Place (Magma-safe material for magma) mine-cart on it with empty conditions/give or take stockpiles/
*Make sure the set-up is made one floor below the region to be drained
*one can place a pump, pumping fluid in to the mine-cart but then that needs automation
1. What you need is:
*A mine-cart -> Material depends on what you intend it for.
*A proper track stop - that - dumps - in to - a - wall, (maximum friction )
2. This is my portable magma drain design:
{| class="wikitable"
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! 1
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| [[File:Portable Drain Layout.PNG|thumb|Portable Drain Layout example]]
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* Water -> Any mine-cart
*Magma -> Magma-safe material for cart
*The location of the drain is important.
*I usually channel a room and make it 1-Z level low, so the entire magma goes to the cart and drainsup, leaving the upper floor totally empty when needed.
*This will clear it up.
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Drain explained.png|thumb|Portable Drain Logic]]
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3. Now we set the IRON drain dump stop:
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| [[File:Drain dump stop.png|thumb|Drain Dump designation]]
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4. Now we set the drain dump mine-cart
*Go to set mine-cart hauling routes, add a new route, then look at the index described below:
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Minecart designations.png|thumb|Minecart icons explained]]
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5. Now we do this:
*Set track stop to the Iron track stop we made
*Set an IRON mine-cart to the stop
*delete every single conditions and leave it empty
*We do not want any conditions in it, we do not want it to take or give from any stockpile, nor do we want it to take any specific item. So we leave the below tab empty, except for the names
So I will re-cap this :
1. Add new track stop. 2. Click on iron track stop and name it. 3. Click on add mine-cart and add iron mine-cart. 4. Name the track-stop if you will. 5. Remove all conditions. 6. Let the items to be placed in be empty. 7. That should do it.
6. Now if the dumping into a wall and mine-cart with all empty and normal placement is there then it will work absolutely fine. There is only one way to test, fill it up with water or magma, it will drain the floors above its current floors, it will drain up to only 6/7 of the floor it is placed on. So the reason for its one floor lower placement. It is very important that you don't place the dump on the same floor as your desired draining floor.

== Magma Tapping ==
Magma Tapping has various methods, I will try to depict a very simple method:
*But before hand, there is a section in-game:
*Under Labour Tab
*Go to Stone use
This list gives you the list of magma safe materials, so in my case, I had a lot of dolomite, so I selected ( Allow dolomite to be used in normal stone jobs ). So I could make some magma safe grates and stuff. Another good idea is to use iron for all these magma operations.

So this is an approximate list of materials you'd want ready before going for magma pump
*Iron Pipe Section X 1
*Iron Blocks X 4 or 8
*Enormous Iron Cork-Screw X 1
*Iron Flood Gate X 2
*Iron Grates X 1
*Iron Mechanisms X as per need, because later on, we are going to need these a lot
*Iron Mine-cart
*A Portable Drain ( I will teach this )
*This is what you are looking forward to
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Portable Drain Layout.PNG|thumb|Portable Drain Layout example]]
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*This is my Pump :
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Pump.PNG|thumb|Magma Pump]]
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*This is magma below the Pump, the tile of magma has been channelled.
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Below pump.PNG|thumb|View below the pump shown above]]
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Place the pump such that it is one tile ahead of the tile it is sucking from and place the direction of pumping carefully. We place the iron bars so that creatures don't come from underneath the magma into the fortress. The materials are made of iron so that the pump doesn't burn. The Door is placed as a precaution in case things don't work out as intended.
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Pump working concept.png|thumb|Pumps working logic]]
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This is how it is intended to work, don't mind the burning trash, it just shows how non-fire proof materials melt to magma, whereas the pump, operator, grate, door and bars are safe, even the floodgate is safe and sound.
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Magma Pumping.gif|thumb|Magma being pumped Gif File]]
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Now you know how to do it hopefully, good luck with the tapping. Some tips, when you hit warm rock, be exceptionally careful with it. Dig little little upwards and sideways to discover from what z level the warm rocks start, above that layer will be the pump. Also, better to have all materials ready before a magma man pays a visit through the hole you made in the magma sea. Yes, that will be the best I can explain it to you my dear reader.
This is the concept of the pump with things mentioned.

== Cave-in organising and executing ==
This is how a multi-floor cave-in is organised. This is the youtube video describing what is to be explained below now :
*[https://youtu.be/pW1CrP_IgWI?si=gHw5RCOOGtK7-AVl Planned Mass Cave-in]
* This image explains the concept of the video as to how to do it, and all.
{| class="wikitable"
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! Image
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| [[File:Cave in fundamental.png|thumb|Cave in logic]]
|}

We dig out the piston but the floors... 100 or perhaps 120.. 120 floor channelling? nah dude... This is a better alternative, a 100 or 120 floor digging itself takes an in-game year or so. So what we do is, above all these floors, make a support. on this support is a 5x5 square floor. This 5x5 square has a 3x3 hole in the centre. Attach the support to a lever, when all 100 or 120 floors are dug out, you just make sure all dwarves and creatures are away from these floors or it is instant death. So when you pull the lever, this 5x5 drops exactly on similar 5x5 floors supporting the piston. Every single floor below is destroyed. But the oiston is intact. Why? because it is supported by a support. So all that is left here is the piston alone, clean and beautiful. Now in our case, why is a piston shown? Why is this example describing a piston? Why a piston in a cave in? Because, that video shows the magma piston that is to be used in our guide and that video is a great example of how to clean multiple floors. Yes, even TwistedLogicgaming destroyed an entire island with a floor collapse. So now enough chit chat, lets go to a small summary.

== What have we learnt so far and why? ==
We have learnt
*To find the caverns to suitably dig for the piston.
*To cause a massive cave-in to dig the circumference of the magma piston.
*To carefully pump magma in a designated place.
*And then to drain it very effectively.

== ''''' Magma Piston ''''' ==
Video is right here :
* [https://youtu.be/OBEot6PJUYI?si=0QZeBdZ73xtznkmK Firing a Magma Piston]

*Let us get into this, this below image is just for reference: a general understanding of the entire process:
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:IMG 20230131 002636.jpg|thumb|Artistic Depiction of a Magma Piston]]
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*'''This is the top level : The Obsidian Regenerator'''
*An obsidian Regenerator servers one purpose,to recreate the blocks we dig at the base at the piston. The way this works is, we have a retracting bridge on exactly top of the magma piston head. This retractable bridge will have water on top of it 7/7. This draw bridge is covered on all sides. Water inlet and outlet is floodgate controlled. When we retract, the water 7/7 exactly falls down on the piston head creating 2/7 (minimum magma to be present) magma to obsidian. This completes the regeneration.
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Obsidian regenerator water.PNG|thumb|A ready position obsidian regenerator]]
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*'''This is the level where magma forges will be build:'''
*When magma is pumped here, there needs to be micro-management else this magma that is being pumped will freely flow and become cold. If this magma entirely becomes cold, then the obsidian regenerator won't work. This causes the entire project to be fu(k3d because the absence of magma makes the entire repeatability of the project to fail. So a save before first pump is always advised.
*In this image, there are series of channels and slots dug out for the Forge placement. There are several levers controlling <Magma-Safe> draw-bridges below.
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Piston Head and Designated Magma Forge Room.PNG|thumb|Piston Head]]
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*'''This is where the magma floods in:'''
*The bridges control the magma flow. Every single draw bridge is retracted before the first pump. The floodgate is a critical part and a grate installation is highly advised. Sequential opening and repeating of pumping further opening the bridges to allow more and more magma flow to make it minimum 4/4. In the first three piston drops, one magma forge will be running. Took me 3 pumps and mirco-management to get it running honestly
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Under the Forges and Magin Magma Room.PNG|thumb|Magma Control Slots]]
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*'''This is how it looks post piston drop:'''
*The support has been pulled by the lever, the entire pillar/piston falls down. Upon falling down the area occupied by magma which is replaced by the piston is instantly teleported on top of it, hence the name " Magma Piston " also depicted in the fan-art posted before.
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Post activation top.PNG|thumb|The top of the piston post activation]]
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*'''This is how the bottom design is:'''
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Magma Room.PNG|thumb|Piston Bottom Support]]
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*'''This is how it looks when flooded with magma and piston drops down:'''
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Post activation bottom.PNG|thumb|Activated magma piston]]
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*'''Magma Piston types -'''
*magma pistons are of two types specifically :
*Re-usable:-
*one such as ours with only a single z-level dropping into magma. This single z-level can be easily regenerated with water drop on magma at the piston top surface as shown in video
*Non-re-usable:-
*the one which is made for a single time use, use like a magma moat... what happens in this is, the piston literally drops in a massive tank full of magma, multiple z-levels deep. Such as 10 Length x 10 Breadth x 5 Levels, so 3,500 units of magma to be transferred. The upper surface must be prepared well to hold this magma as well to use else it can flood the fort leading massive Fun.
multiple z-level regeneration is not possible so this is a single use massive piston. Does the trick though.

== Cavern between piston ==
The Problem of Cavern occurring in between the piston parts.
Firstly, for a project like this, exploration of caverns is primarily advised. Radar isn't sufficient to pull off the direct exploration. The problem occurs when there is a small cavern and there ain't no perfect spot without cavern occurring in between the piston. So this is the method to solve that problem.

1. Make the top and bottom piston. The bottom piston is held by a support. The top piston is to be dropped but not directly. keep top and bottom ready.

2. Every single thing in between the top and bottom of pistons to be dug clean. Nothing but air between the top and bottom.

3. Now the top side piston column may have un-even bottom and the top-surface of the bottom piston can be un-even. We make it smooth 3x3 on top and bottom so that the mating surfaces are clean and 3x3 with nothing in between.

4. Drop top piston on bottom piston.

5. Now the part where the piston top is there , 1z level below is your magma pumping chamber and obsidian retainer tank is to be on its top and so on...

6. Now during your pumping process, somehow using the retainer and a very well thought out process you can increase the piston length but it is tedious.

7. So TLDR; clean the area between top and bottom surfaces between piston. Make mating faces clean 3x3 / 10 x 10 or whatever. drop topside and make the surfaces connect. Make arrangements and start pumping.

== The Significance of retracting bridge ==
In the room where magma is teleported above the piston when it drops is because the magma doesn't drip below. What is the use of teleporting massive amounts of magma and it legit drips down to where it was pumped from... One more factor is, if water were to fall in alone the pillar and connect to a piece of magma, it will attach the piston with the channel around leading to process disruption. Floor grates, flood gates didn't work in my case. Magma safe retractable bridges work excellently.
== Mega Piston Regnerator ==
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Page 1.jpg|thumb|Page 1]]
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| [[File:Page 2 piston idea.jpg|thumb|Page 2]]
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== Compound Magma Piston ==
Very advanced stuff, basically, you make pump stack in between and place a gigantic piston at the top. If there is a huge gap in between two caverns, the design can be implemented in between them. You can use reducer pistons or something like that as well.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]

File:Page 3.jpg

2023-12-09T16:29:50Z

Sniper231996: Page 3 concepts

== Summary ==
Page 3 concepts
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

File:Page 2 piston idea.jpg

2023-12-09T16:29:47Z

Sniper231996: Page 2 concepts

== Summary ==
Page 2 concepts
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

File:Page 1.jpg

2023-12-09T16:29:08Z

Sniper231996: Page 1 concepts

== Summary ==
Page 1 concepts
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

Magma piston

2023-12-09T16:27:46Z

Sniper231996: /* Magma Piston */

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'''Magma pistons''' are used to move [[magma]] near the surface. This approach was developed by players as an alternative to [[screw pump#Pump stack|pump stack]]s. Magma pistons are used because they require less time and fewer precious materials to construct than pump stacks. However, magma pistons are a bit more complicated than pump stacks, so it takes more time to understand how to operate and build them.

== The concept ==
The piston method is based on a clever [[exploit|abuse]] of [[cave-in]] [[physics]]. The basic principle involves channeling out an area around a huge stone pillar, hundreds of z-levels tall, which will become the "piston" that drives magma to the top. Rest the piston on a single support, then carve out a tank at its base which will be filled with magma pumped from the magma sea. ('''Beware:''' building the piston directly over the magma sea will '''NOT''' work. The piston must be made entirely of ''natural'' (non-constructed) walls.) Once the tank has been filled, drop the piston by removing its support. Liquids displaced by a cave-in will "teleport" straight up to the nearest available space; here, the nearest available space will be the catchment area you thoughtfully prepared earlier atop the piston.

A simple magma piston works as shown in the following diagram:

'''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
~ = '''Magma'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Basic magma piston design (side view)'''
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When the support is destroyed, the wall sections in the middle will fall down into the magma. The magma will teleport to the top of the piston, as shown in the following diagram:

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== Construction ==
A magma piston is composed of 4-5 parts: the catchment area, the magma reservoir, the support, the piston, and the obsidian caster (optional).

=== Catchment area ===
:The '''catchment area''' is located at the top of the piston. After the piston is dropped, the magma will spread out around the catchment area. In a repeating magma piston, some of the magma is used to cast obsidian on top of the piston, in order to reuse it. The volume and size of the catchment area must be carefully calculated to ensure that you won't have too much or too little magma above the piston for casting. Ideally, you want the depth of the magma above the piston to be 2. If the depth is 1, then the magma might evaporate and you won't be able to repair your piston. If the depth is greater than 2, then you're wasting magma if you cast it into obsidian. You can also make the catchment area multiple z-levels deep. If you need a catchment area smaller than possible with bridges or floodgates, you may use a floor-less [[Floodgate#Placement|floodgate]] to prevent the magma entering that square, while keeping the piston free to fall.

=== Magma reservoir ===
:The '''magma reservoir''' is dug out near the magma sea. You can't actually drop the piston directly into the magma sea because the bottom of the magma sea is [[semi-molten rock]], and it will completely destroy any piston dropped into it. The magma reservoir is artificial, so it won't have a floor made of semi-molten rock. This will allow the piston to rest on the floor of your reservoir. The magma reservoir needs three parts: a magma inlet, a magma drain, and an access corridor. After letting magma in, and dropping the piston, you'll want to dig out the bottom of the piston so you can drop it again. To do that, you need to drain any excess magma and let your workers in through the access corridor.

=== Support ===
:The '''support''' is what prevents your piston from dropping until you decide to pull the firing lever. The support can be located either at the bottom of the piston, as shown in the simplified diagram, or at the side of the piston (shown in the following diagram). If the support is at the bottom of the piston, then the support and the mechanism it uses must both be [[magma-safe]]. If it's at the side, then neither need to be magma-safe. Here's an example of a side-mounted support:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
'''X''' = '''Up/Down stairs'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''
= = '''Constructed floor'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Side-mounted support'''
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:In this diagram, you can see the catchment area at the top, and the piston in the middle of the shaft. The support structure is to the left. When the support element collapses, the two constructed floors will become unsupported, and then the piston will collapse. The stairs and hatch to the left of the constructed floors allows for convenient reconstruction of the support.

=== Piston ===
:The '''piston''' is the heart of the scheme. It may be 100-200 z-levels long, so it will take quite a while for your miners to dig it out. You may encounter trouble with caverns. Ideally, you should scout out the caverns and find a clear path straight down. If you can't find such a path, you can fix the problem as follows:

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:First, smooth the top and bottom, like so:

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:Now drop the top of the piston on to the floor of the cavern. You can use a cave-in to destroy the stairs quickly, if you remove all up-stairs first.

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=== Obsidian caster ===
:The '''obsidian caster''' is what allows you to rebuild your piston and get more magma. It's an application of techniques drawn from [[obsidian farming]]. The caster just needs to precisely dump water into the catchment area in order to form obsidian. A caster is composed of two parts: a water inlet, and a retracting bridge. Here's a sample design:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
F = '''Closed floodgate'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with water'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with magma'''
~ = '''Magma'''
~ = '''Water'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Obsidian caster'''
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:When you retract the bridge at the top, the water will fall straight down, and you'll get the following result:

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== Operation ==
The general procedure for operating a repeatable magma piston is as follows:

#Pull your firing lever to collapse the side support, thus dropping the piston into the magma.
#In the magma reservoir, close the inlet and open the drain to empty the magma and allow workers in later.
#Retract the bridge of the obsidian caster to drop water onto magma and rebuild the piston.
#Extend the bridge of the obsidian caster and open the inlet floodgate, to refill your caster's water supply.
#Reconstruct the side support and re-link it to your firing lever.
#Pump/drain any magma you want to use out of the catchment area.
#Allow workers into the magma reservoir when it's safe and empty, and dig out the bottom of the piston.
#Get the workers out of the reservoir and lock the door.
#In the magma reservoir, close the drain and open the inlet to fill it with magma.
#Remember to close the inlet floodgate of your obsidian caster.
#Make sure that your side-support is clear.
#When the magma reservoir is full, use your firing lever to restart the process.

== More information ==
The original discussion of this trick, including how to make the piston reusable, can be found in [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59894.0 this forum thread].
[[ru:Magma piston]]
That being said, I will link this here so that those who attempt this concept in the premium version have access to this guide.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924657714

== Magma Piston ==
So here I will begin the editing of a new chapter in magma pistons after the premium version has been released. The work that Fenwah and others on bay12forums began is still going on.
This page teaches you to:
*Finding the right spot using Dwarven Sonar
*Induce multi floor cave-in (to channel multiple floors very fast)
*Magma Tapping (breaking into the magma sea to get a source of magma for magma reservoir)
*Using portable drain ( For draining magma )
*Using Supports to drop the piston ( massive pillar of rock, 120 blocks high )
*Using water to reload the piston

== Dwarven Sonar ==
Now, how to do it? it is mentioned as follows :
*Go to build -> farming -> farm plot
*Drag and drop a square at any plot that is suitable for farming, but make sure to only select the starter tile and not the placement click.
*Now drag a big square, do not end the placement, max size plot, now scroll to lower tiles
*When you drag the mouse wheel and go below, the places where farm plot is place-able is visible
*Underground in undiscovered regions, where there is farm plot, there is a cavern
*I have shown a gif of how to do it below, it shows what is written here applied, in full.
*We have discovered 3 caverns in the mentioned manner.
*Where ever there is a cavern, it is visible by a different manner in placement pop-up
*Now when you discover the caverns, note the levels where you discover them and dig carefully.
*Cancel the placement option
Here is the big Gif, I have cropped the empty frames in the GIf. The relevant frames are kept in here.

{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Dwarven Sonar GIF 2.gif|thumb|The Sonar in action]]
|}

== Detailed Video ==
*5th April 2023:
*Youtube video:
[https://youtu.be/fnVPvjCLXvA?si=zhNOla5LOzKILDuW Magma Piston Video]

== Making a Portable Drain ==

A portable drain is a mine-cart dumping infinite amounts of water in a wall .
A quick TL;DR
*Make a track stop dumping into wall
*Place (Magma-safe material for magma) mine-cart on it with empty conditions/give or take stockpiles/
*Make sure the set-up is made one floor below the region to be drained
*one can place a pump, pumping fluid in to the mine-cart but then that needs automation
1. What you need is:
*A mine-cart -> Material depends on what you intend it for.
*A proper track stop - that - dumps - in to - a - wall, (maximum friction )
2. This is my portable magma drain design:
{| class="wikitable"
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! 1
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| [[File:Portable Drain Layout.PNG|thumb|Portable Drain Layout example]]
|}

* Water -> Any mine-cart
*Magma -> Magma-safe material for cart
*The location of the drain is important.
*I usually channel a room and make it 1-Z level low, so the entire magma goes to the cart and drainsup, leaving the upper floor totally empty when needed.
*This will clear it up.
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Drain explained.png|thumb|Portable Drain Logic]]
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3. Now we set the IRON drain dump stop:
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| [[File:Drain dump stop.png|thumb|Drain Dump designation]]
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4. Now we set the drain dump mine-cart
*Go to set mine-cart hauling routes, add a new route, then look at the index described below:
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Minecart designations.png|thumb|Minecart icons explained]]
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5. Now we do this:
*Set track stop to the Iron track stop we made
*Set an IRON mine-cart to the stop
*delete every single conditions and leave it empty
*We do not want any conditions in it, we do not want it to take or give from any stockpile, nor do we want it to take any specific item. So we leave the below tab empty, except for the names
So I will re-cap this :
1. Add new track stop. 2. Click on iron track stop and name it. 3. Click on add mine-cart and add iron mine-cart. 4. Name the track-stop if you will. 5. Remove all conditions. 6. Let the items to be placed in be empty. 7. That should do it.
6. Now if the dumping into a wall and mine-cart with all empty and normal placement is there then it will work absolutely fine. There is only one way to test, fill it up with water or magma, it will drain the floors above its current floors, it will drain up to only 6/7 of the floor it is placed on. So the reason for its one floor lower placement. It is very important that you don't place the dump on the same floor as your desired draining floor.

== Magma Tapping ==
Magma Tapping has various methods, I will try to depict a very simple method:
*But before hand, there is a section in-game:
*Under Labour Tab
*Go to Stone use
This list gives you the list of magma safe materials, so in my case, I had a lot of dolomite, so I selected ( Allow dolomite to be used in normal stone jobs ). So I could make some magma safe grates and stuff. Another good idea is to use iron for all these magma operations.

So this is an approximate list of materials you'd want ready before going for magma pump
*Iron Pipe Section X 1
*Iron Blocks X 4 or 8
*Enormous Iron Cork-Screw X 1
*Iron Flood Gate X 2
*Iron Grates X 1
*Iron Mechanisms X as per need, because later on, we are going to need these a lot
*Iron Mine-cart
*A Portable Drain ( I will teach this )
*This is what you are looking forward to
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Portable Drain Layout.PNG|thumb|Portable Drain Layout example]]
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*This is my Pump :
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Pump.PNG|thumb|Magma Pump]]
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*This is magma below the Pump, the tile of magma has been channelled.
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| [[File:Below pump.PNG|thumb|View below the pump shown above]]
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Place the pump such that it is one tile ahead of the tile it is sucking from and place the direction of pumping carefully. We place the iron bars so that creatures don't come from underneath the magma into the fortress. The materials are made of iron so that the pump doesn't burn. The Door is placed as a precaution in case things don't work out as intended.
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Pump working concept.png|thumb|Pumps working logic]]
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This is how it is intended to work, don't mind the burning trash, it just shows how non-fire proof materials melt to magma, whereas the pump, operator, grate, door and bars are safe, even the floodgate is safe and sound.
{| class="wikitable"
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! 5
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| [[File:Magma Pumping.gif|thumb|Magma being pumped Gif File]]
|}

Now you know how to do it hopefully, good luck with the tapping. Some tips, when you hit warm rock, be exceptionally careful with it. Dig little little upwards and sideways to discover from what z level the warm rocks start, above that layer will be the pump. Also, better to have all materials ready before a magma man pays a visit through the hole you made in the magma sea. Yes, that will be the best I can explain it to you my dear reader.
This is the concept of the pump with things mentioned.

== Cave-in organising and executing ==
This is how a multi-floor cave-in is organised. This is the youtube video describing what is to be explained below now :
*[https://youtu.be/pW1CrP_IgWI?si=gHw5RCOOGtK7-AVl Planned Mass Cave-in]
* This image explains the concept of the video as to how to do it, and all.
{| class="wikitable"
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! Image
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| [[File:Cave in fundamental.png|thumb|Cave in logic]]
|}

We dig out the piston but the floors... 100 or perhaps 120.. 120 floor channelling? nah dude... This is a better alternative, a 100 or 120 floor digging itself takes an in-game year or so. So what we do is, above all these floors, make a support. on this support is a 5x5 square floor. This 5x5 square has a 3x3 hole in the centre. Attach the support to a lever, when all 100 or 120 floors are dug out, you just make sure all dwarves and creatures are away from these floors or it is instant death. So when you pull the lever, this 5x5 drops exactly on similar 5x5 floors supporting the piston. Every single floor below is destroyed. But the oiston is intact. Why? because it is supported by a support. So all that is left here is the piston alone, clean and beautiful. Now in our case, why is a piston shown? Why is this example describing a piston? Why a piston in a cave in? Because, that video shows the magma piston that is to be used in our guide and that video is a great example of how to clean multiple floors. Yes, even TwistedLogicgaming destroyed an entire island with a floor collapse. So now enough chit chat, lets go to a small summary.

== What have we learnt so far and why? ==
We have learnt
*To find the caverns to suitably dig for the piston.
*To cause a massive cave-in to dig the circumference of the magma piston.
*To carefully pump magma in a designated place.
*And then to drain it very effectively.

== ''''' Magma Piston ''''' ==
Video is right here :
* [https://youtu.be/OBEot6PJUYI?si=0QZeBdZ73xtznkmK Firing a Magma Piston]

*Let us get into this, this below image is just for reference: a general understanding of the entire process:
{| class="wikitable"
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! 1
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| [[File:IMG 20230131 002636.jpg|thumb|Artistic Depiction of a Magma Piston]]
|}
*'''This is the top level : The Obsidian Regenerator'''
*An obsidian Regenerator servers one purpose,to recreate the blocks we dig at the base at the piston. The way this works is, we have a retracting bridge on exactly top of the magma piston head. This retractable bridge will have water on top of it 7/7. This draw bridge is covered on all sides. Water inlet and outlet is floodgate controlled. When we retract, the water 7/7 exactly falls down on the piston head creating 2/7 (minimum magma to be present) magma to obsidian. This completes the regeneration.
{| class="wikitable"
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! 2
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| [[File:Obsidian regenerator water.PNG|thumb|A ready position obsidian regenerator]]
|}
*'''This is the level where magma forges will be build:'''
*When magma is pumped here, there needs to be micro-management else this magma that is being pumped will freely flow and become cold. If this magma entirely becomes cold, then the obsidian regenerator won't work. This causes the entire project to be fu(k3d because the absence of magma makes the entire repeatability of the project to fail. So a save before first pump is always advised.
*In this image, there are series of channels and slots dug out for the Forge placement. There are several levers controlling <Magma-Safe> draw-bridges below.
{| class="wikitable"
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! 3
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| [[File:Piston Head and Designated Magma Forge Room.PNG|thumb|Piston Head]]
|}
*'''This is where the magma floods in:'''
*The bridges control the magma flow. Every single draw bridge is retracted before the first pump. The floodgate is a critical part and a grate installation is highly advised. Sequential opening and repeating of pumping further opening the bridges to allow more and more magma flow to make it minimum 4/4. In the first three piston drops, one magma forge will be running. Took me 3 pumps and mirco-management to get it running honestly
{| class="wikitable"
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! 4
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| [[File:Under the Forges and Magin Magma Room.PNG|thumb|Magma Control Slots]]
|}
*'''This is how it looks post piston drop:'''
*The support has been pulled by the lever, the entire pillar/piston falls down. Upon falling down the area occupied by magma which is replaced by the piston is instantly teleported on top of it, hence the name " Magma Piston " also depicted in the fan-art posted before.
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Post activation top.PNG|thumb|The top of the piston post activation]]
|}
*'''This is how the bottom design is:'''
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Magma Room.PNG|thumb|Piston Bottom Support]]
|}
*'''This is how it looks when flooded with magma and piston drops down:'''
{| class="wikitable"
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! 7
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| [[File:Post activation bottom.PNG|thumb|Activated magma piston]]
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*'''Magma Piston types -'''
*magma pistons are of two types specifically :
*Re-usable:-
*one such as ours with only a single z-level dropping into magma. This single z-level can be easily regenerated with water drop on magma at the piston top surface as shown in video
*Non-re-usable:-
*the one which is made for a single time use, use like a magma moat... what happens in this is, the piston literally drops in a massive tank full of magma, multiple z-levels deep. Such as 10 Length x 10 Breadth x 5 Levels, so 3,500 units of magma to be transferred. The upper surface must be prepared well to hold this magma as well to use else it can flood the fort leading massive Fun.
multiple z-level regeneration is not possible so this is a single use massive piston. Does the trick though.

== Cavern between piston ==
The Problem of Cavern occurring in between the piston parts.
Firstly, for a project like this, exploration of caverns is primarily advised. Radar isn't sufficient to pull off the direct exploration. The problem occurs when there is a small cavern and there ain't no perfect spot without cavern occurring in between the piston. So this is the method to solve that problem.

1. Make the top and bottom piston. The bottom piston is held by a support. The top piston is to be dropped but not directly. keep top and bottom ready.

2. Every single thing in between the top and bottom of pistons to be dug clean. Nothing but air between the top and bottom.

3. Now the top side piston column may have un-even bottom and the top-surface of the bottom piston can be un-even. We make it smooth 3x3 on top and bottom so that the mating surfaces are clean and 3x3 with nothing in between.

4. Drop top piston on bottom piston.

5. Now the part where the piston top is there , 1z level below is your magma pumping chamber and obsidian retainer tank is to be on its top and so on...

6. Now during your pumping process, somehow using the retainer and a very well thought out process you can increase the piston length but it is tedious.

7. So TLDR; clean the area between top and bottom surfaces between piston. Make mating faces clean 3x3 / 10 x 10 or whatever. drop topside and make the surfaces connect. Make arrangements and start pumping.

== The Significance of retracting bridge ==
In the room where magma is teleported above the piston when it drops is because the magma doesn't drip below. What is the use of teleporting massive amounts of magma and it legit drips down to where it was pumped from... One more factor is, if water were to fall in alone the pillar and connect to a piece of magma, it will attach the piston with the channel around leading to process disruption. Floor grates, flood gates didn't work in my case. Magma safe retractable bridges work excellently.
== Mega Piston Regnerator ==
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
== Compound Magma Piston ==
Very advanced stuff, basically, you make pump stack in between and place a gigantic piston at the top. If there is a huge gap in between two caverns, the design can be implemented in between them. You can use reducer pistons or something like that as well.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]

File:Post activation bottom.PNG

2023-12-09T16:27:05Z

Sniper231996: Fired Magma piston

== Summary ==
Fired Magma piston
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

File:Magma Room.PNG

2023-12-09T16:26:03Z

Sniper231996: The support at the bottom of a magma piston [ Magma-Safe ] Material only

== Summary ==
The support at the bottom of a magma piston [ Magma-Safe ] Material only
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

File:Under the Forges and Magin Magma Room.PNG

2023-12-09T16:20:47Z

Sniper231996: Slots where magma will flow in when piston is fired

== Summary ==
Slots where magma will flow in when piston is fired
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

File:Piston Head and Designated Magma Forge Room.PNG

2023-12-09T16:18:39Z

Sniper231996: Piston head and the slot dug out where magma will slowly and controllably flow inwards.

== Summary ==
Piston head and the slot dug out where magma will slowly and controllably flow inwards.
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

File:IMG 20230131 002636.jpg

2023-12-09T16:12:35Z

Sniper231996:

== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

Magma piston

2023-12-09T16:10:08Z

Sniper231996: /* Cave-in organising and executing */

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{Projects}}
{{av}}
'''Magma pistons''' are used to move [[magma]] near the surface. This approach was developed by players as an alternative to [[screw pump#Pump stack|pump stack]]s. Magma pistons are used because they require less time and fewer precious materials to construct than pump stacks. However, magma pistons are a bit more complicated than pump stacks, so it takes more time to understand how to operate and build them.

== The concept ==
The piston method is based on a clever [[exploit|abuse]] of [[cave-in]] [[physics]]. The basic principle involves channeling out an area around a huge stone pillar, hundreds of z-levels tall, which will become the "piston" that drives magma to the top. Rest the piston on a single support, then carve out a tank at its base which will be filled with magma pumped from the magma sea. ('''Beware:''' building the piston directly over the magma sea will '''NOT''' work. The piston must be made entirely of ''natural'' (non-constructed) walls.) Once the tank has been filled, drop the piston by removing its support. Liquids displaced by a cave-in will "teleport" straight up to the nearest available space; here, the nearest available space will be the catchment area you thoughtfully prepared earlier atop the piston.

A simple magma piston works as shown in the following diagram:

'''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
~ = '''Magma'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Basic magma piston design (side view)'''
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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When the support is destroyed, the wall sections in the middle will fall down into the magma. The magma will teleport to the top of the piston, as shown in the following diagram:

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
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== Construction ==
A magma piston is composed of 4-5 parts: the catchment area, the magma reservoir, the support, the piston, and the obsidian caster (optional).

=== Catchment area ===
:The '''catchment area''' is located at the top of the piston. After the piston is dropped, the magma will spread out around the catchment area. In a repeating magma piston, some of the magma is used to cast obsidian on top of the piston, in order to reuse it. The volume and size of the catchment area must be carefully calculated to ensure that you won't have too much or too little magma above the piston for casting. Ideally, you want the depth of the magma above the piston to be 2. If the depth is 1, then the magma might evaporate and you won't be able to repair your piston. If the depth is greater than 2, then you're wasting magma if you cast it into obsidian. You can also make the catchment area multiple z-levels deep. If you need a catchment area smaller than possible with bridges or floodgates, you may use a floor-less [[Floodgate#Placement|floodgate]] to prevent the magma entering that square, while keeping the piston free to fall.

=== Magma reservoir ===
:The '''magma reservoir''' is dug out near the magma sea. You can't actually drop the piston directly into the magma sea because the bottom of the magma sea is [[semi-molten rock]], and it will completely destroy any piston dropped into it. The magma reservoir is artificial, so it won't have a floor made of semi-molten rock. This will allow the piston to rest on the floor of your reservoir. The magma reservoir needs three parts: a magma inlet, a magma drain, and an access corridor. After letting magma in, and dropping the piston, you'll want to dig out the bottom of the piston so you can drop it again. To do that, you need to drain any excess magma and let your workers in through the access corridor.

=== Support ===
:The '''support''' is what prevents your piston from dropping until you decide to pull the firing lever. The support can be located either at the bottom of the piston, as shown in the simplified diagram, or at the side of the piston (shown in the following diagram). If the support is at the bottom of the piston, then the support and the mechanism it uses must both be [[magma-safe]]. If it's at the side, then neither need to be magma-safe. Here's an example of a side-mounted support:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
'''X''' = '''Up/Down stairs'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''
= = '''Constructed floor'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Side-mounted support'''
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|X
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
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:In this diagram, you can see the catchment area at the top, and the piston in the middle of the shaft. The support structure is to the left. When the support element collapses, the two constructed floors will become unsupported, and then the piston will collapse. The stairs and hatch to the left of the constructed floors allows for convenient reconstruction of the support.

=== Piston ===
:The '''piston''' is the heart of the scheme. It may be 100-200 z-levels long, so it will take quite a while for your miners to dig it out. You may encounter trouble with caverns. Ideally, you should scout out the caverns and find a clear path straight down. If you can't find such a path, you can fix the problem as follows:

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
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:First, smooth the top and bottom, like so:

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:Now drop the top of the piston on to the floor of the cavern. You can use a cave-in to destroy the stairs quickly, if you remove all up-stairs first.

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=== Obsidian caster ===
:The '''obsidian caster''' is what allows you to rebuild your piston and get more magma. It's an application of techniques drawn from [[obsidian farming]]. The caster just needs to precisely dump water into the catchment area in order to form obsidian. A caster is composed of two parts: a water inlet, and a retracting bridge. Here's a sample design:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
F = '''Closed floodgate'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with water'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with magma'''
~ = '''Magma'''
~ = '''Water'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Obsidian caster'''
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:When you retract the bridge at the top, the water will fall straight down, and you'll get the following result:

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== Operation ==
The general procedure for operating a repeatable magma piston is as follows:

#Pull your firing lever to collapse the side support, thus dropping the piston into the magma.
#In the magma reservoir, close the inlet and open the drain to empty the magma and allow workers in later.
#Retract the bridge of the obsidian caster to drop water onto magma and rebuild the piston.
#Extend the bridge of the obsidian caster and open the inlet floodgate, to refill your caster's water supply.
#Reconstruct the side support and re-link it to your firing lever.
#Pump/drain any magma you want to use out of the catchment area.
#Allow workers into the magma reservoir when it's safe and empty, and dig out the bottom of the piston.
#Get the workers out of the reservoir and lock the door.
#In the magma reservoir, close the drain and open the inlet to fill it with magma.
#Remember to close the inlet floodgate of your obsidian caster.
#Make sure that your side-support is clear.
#When the magma reservoir is full, use your firing lever to restart the process.

== More information ==
The original discussion of this trick, including how to make the piston reusable, can be found in [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59894.0 this forum thread].
[[ru:Magma piston]]
That being said, I will link this here so that those who attempt this concept in the premium version have access to this guide.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924657714

== Magma Piston ==
So here I will begin the editing of a new chapter in magma pistons after the premium version has been released. The work that Fenwah and others on bay12forums began is still going on.
This page teaches you to:
*Finding the right spot using Dwarven Sonar
*Induce multi floor cave-in (to channel multiple floors very fast)
*Magma Tapping (breaking into the magma sea to get a source of magma for magma reservoir)
*Using portable drain ( For draining magma )
*Using Supports to drop the piston ( massive pillar of rock, 120 blocks high )
*Using water to reload the piston

== Dwarven Sonar ==
Now, how to do it? it is mentioned as follows :
*Go to build -> farming -> farm plot
*Drag and drop a square at any plot that is suitable for farming, but make sure to only select the starter tile and not the placement click.
*Now drag a big square, do not end the placement, max size plot, now scroll to lower tiles
*When you drag the mouse wheel and go below, the places where farm plot is place-able is visible
*Underground in undiscovered regions, where there is farm plot, there is a cavern
*I have shown a gif of how to do it below, it shows what is written here applied, in full.
*We have discovered 3 caverns in the mentioned manner.
*Where ever there is a cavern, it is visible by a different manner in placement pop-up
*Now when you discover the caverns, note the levels where you discover them and dig carefully.
*Cancel the placement option
Here is the big Gif, I have cropped the empty frames in the GIf. The relevant frames are kept in here.

{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Dwarven Sonar GIF 2.gif|thumb|The Sonar in action]]
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== Detailed Video ==
*5th April 2023:
*Youtube video:
[https://youtu.be/fnVPvjCLXvA?si=zhNOla5LOzKILDuW Magma Piston Video]

== Making a Portable Drain ==

A portable drain is a mine-cart dumping infinite amounts of water in a wall .
A quick TL;DR
*Make a track stop dumping into wall
*Place (Magma-safe material for magma) mine-cart on it with empty conditions/give or take stockpiles/
*Make sure the set-up is made one floor below the region to be drained
*one can place a pump, pumping fluid in to the mine-cart but then that needs automation
1. What you need is:
*A mine-cart -> Material depends on what you intend it for.
*A proper track stop - that - dumps - in to - a - wall, (maximum friction )
2. This is my portable magma drain design:
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Portable Drain Layout.PNG|thumb|Portable Drain Layout example]]
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* Water -> Any mine-cart
*Magma -> Magma-safe material for cart
*The location of the drain is important.
*I usually channel a room and make it 1-Z level low, so the entire magma goes to the cart and drainsup, leaving the upper floor totally empty when needed.
*This will clear it up.
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Drain explained.png|thumb|Portable Drain Logic]]
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3. Now we set the IRON drain dump stop:
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| [[File:Drain dump stop.png|thumb|Drain Dump designation]]
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4. Now we set the drain dump mine-cart
*Go to set mine-cart hauling routes, add a new route, then look at the index described below:
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| [[File:Minecart designations.png|thumb|Minecart icons explained]]
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5. Now we do this:
*Set track stop to the Iron track stop we made
*Set an IRON mine-cart to the stop
*delete every single conditions and leave it empty
*We do not want any conditions in it, we do not want it to take or give from any stockpile, nor do we want it to take any specific item. So we leave the below tab empty, except for the names
So I will re-cap this :
1. Add new track stop. 2. Click on iron track stop and name it. 3. Click on add mine-cart and add iron mine-cart. 4. Name the track-stop if you will. 5. Remove all conditions. 6. Let the items to be placed in be empty. 7. That should do it.
6. Now if the dumping into a wall and mine-cart with all empty and normal placement is there then it will work absolutely fine. There is only one way to test, fill it up with water or magma, it will drain the floors above its current floors, it will drain up to only 6/7 of the floor it is placed on. So the reason for its one floor lower placement. It is very important that you don't place the dump on the same floor as your desired draining floor.

== Magma Tapping ==
Magma Tapping has various methods, I will try to depict a very simple method:
*But before hand, there is a section in-game:
*Under Labour Tab
*Go to Stone use
This list gives you the list of magma safe materials, so in my case, I had a lot of dolomite, so I selected ( Allow dolomite to be used in normal stone jobs ). So I could make some magma safe grates and stuff. Another good idea is to use iron for all these magma operations.

So this is an approximate list of materials you'd want ready before going for magma pump
*Iron Pipe Section X 1
*Iron Blocks X 4 or 8
*Enormous Iron Cork-Screw X 1
*Iron Flood Gate X 2
*Iron Grates X 1
*Iron Mechanisms X as per need, because later on, we are going to need these a lot
*Iron Mine-cart
*A Portable Drain ( I will teach this )
*This is what you are looking forward to
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| [[File:Portable Drain Layout.PNG|thumb|Portable Drain Layout example]]
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*This is my Pump :
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| [[File:Pump.PNG|thumb|Magma Pump]]
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*This is magma below the Pump, the tile of magma has been channelled.
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| [[File:Below pump.PNG|thumb|View below the pump shown above]]
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Place the pump such that it is one tile ahead of the tile it is sucking from and place the direction of pumping carefully. We place the iron bars so that creatures don't come from underneath the magma into the fortress. The materials are made of iron so that the pump doesn't burn. The Door is placed as a precaution in case things don't work out as intended.
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| [[File:Pump working concept.png|thumb|Pumps working logic]]
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This is how it is intended to work, don't mind the burning trash, it just shows how non-fire proof materials melt to magma, whereas the pump, operator, grate, door and bars are safe, even the floodgate is safe and sound.
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| [[File:Magma Pumping.gif|thumb|Magma being pumped Gif File]]
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Now you know how to do it hopefully, good luck with the tapping. Some tips, when you hit warm rock, be exceptionally careful with it. Dig little little upwards and sideways to discover from what z level the warm rocks start, above that layer will be the pump. Also, better to have all materials ready before a magma man pays a visit through the hole you made in the magma sea. Yes, that will be the best I can explain it to you my dear reader.
This is the concept of the pump with things mentioned.

== Cave-in organising and executing ==
This is how a multi-floor cave-in is organised. This is the youtube video describing what is to be explained below now :
*[https://youtu.be/pW1CrP_IgWI?si=gHw5RCOOGtK7-AVl Planned Mass Cave-in]
* This image explains the concept of the video as to how to do it, and all.
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Cave in fundamental.png|thumb|Cave in logic]]
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We dig out the piston but the floors... 100 or perhaps 120.. 120 floor channelling? nah dude... This is a better alternative, a 100 or 120 floor digging itself takes an in-game year or so. So what we do is, above all these floors, make a support. on this support is a 5x5 square floor. This 5x5 square has a 3x3 hole in the centre. Attach the support to a lever, when all 100 or 120 floors are dug out, you just make sure all dwarves and creatures are away from these floors or it is instant death. So when you pull the lever, this 5x5 drops exactly on similar 5x5 floors supporting the piston. Every single floor below is destroyed. But the oiston is intact. Why? because it is supported by a support. So all that is left here is the piston alone, clean and beautiful. Now in our case, why is a piston shown? Why is this example describing a piston? Why a piston in a cave in? Because, that video shows the magma piston that is to be used in our guide and that video is a great example of how to clean multiple floors. Yes, even TwistedLogicgaming destroyed an entire island with a floor collapse. So now enough chit chat, lets go to a small summary.

== What have we learnt so far and why? ==
We have learnt
*To find the caverns to suitably dig for the piston.
*To cause a massive cave-in to dig the circumference of the magma piston.
*To carefully pump magma in a designated place.
*And then to drain it very effectively.

== ''''' Magma Piston ''''' ==
Video is right here :
* [Youtube link here]
*Let us get into this, this below image is just for reference: a general understanding of the entire process:
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is the top level : The Obsidian Regenerator'''
*An obsidian Regenerator servers one purpose,to recreate the blocks we dig at the base at the piston. The way this works is, we have a retracting bridge on exactly top of the magma piston head. This retractable bridge will have water on top of it 7/7. This draw bridge is covered on all sides. Water inlet and outlet is floodgate controlled. When we retract, the water 7/7 exactly falls down on the piston head creating 2/7 (minimum magma to be present) magma to obsidian. This completes the regeneration.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is the level where magma forges will be build:'''
*When magma is pumped here, there needs to be micro-management else this magma that is being pumped will freely flow and become cold. If this magma entirely becomes cold, then the obsidian regenerator won't work. This causes the entire project to be fu(k3d because the absence of magma makes the entire repeatability of the project to fail. So a save before first pump is always advised.
*In this image, there are series of channels and slots dug out for the Forge placement. There are several levers controlling <Magma-Safe> draw-bridges below.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is where the magma floods in:'''
*The bridges control the magma flow. Every single draw bridge is retracted before the first pump. The floodgate is a critical part and a grate installation is highly advised. Sequential opening and repeating of pumping further opening the bridges to allow more and more magma flow to make it minimum 4/4. In the first three piston drops, one magma forge will be running. Took me 3 pumps and mirco-management to get it running honestly
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how it looks post piston drop:'''
*The support has been pulled by the lever, the entire pillar/piston falls down. Upon falling down the area occupied by magma which is replaced by the piston is instantly teleported on top of it, hence the name " Magma Piston " also depicted in the fan-art posted before.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how the bottom design is:'''
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how it looks when flooded with magma and piston drops down:'''
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''Magma Piston types -'''
*magma pistons are of two types specifically :
*Re-usable:-
*one such as ours with only a single z-level dropping into magma. This single z-level can be easily regenerated with water drop on magma at the piston top surface as shown in video
*Non-re-usable:-
*the one which is made for a single time use, use like a magma moat... what happens in this is, the piston literally drops in a massive tank full of magma, multiple z-levels deep. Such as 10 Length x 10 Breadth x 5 Levels, so 3,500 units of magma to be transferred. The upper surface must be prepared well to hold this magma as well to use else it can flood the fort leading massive Fun.
multiple z-level regeneration is not possible so this is a single use massive piston. Does the trick though.

== Cavern between piston ==
The Problem of Cavern occurring in between the piston parts.
Firstly, for a project like this, exploration of caverns is primarily advised. Radar isn't sufficient to pull off the direct exploration. The problem occurs when there is a small cavern and there ain't no perfect spot without cavern occurring in between the piston. So this is the method to solve that problem.

1. Make the top and bottom piston. The bottom piston is held by a support. The top piston is to be dropped but not directly. keep top and bottom ready.

2. Every single thing in between the top and bottom of pistons to be dug clean. Nothing but air between the top and bottom.

3. Now the top side piston column may have un-even bottom and the top-surface of the bottom piston can be un-even. We make it smooth 3x3 on top and bottom so that the mating surfaces are clean and 3x3 with nothing in between.

4. Drop top piston on bottom piston.

5. Now the part where the piston top is there , 1z level below is your magma pumping chamber and obsidian retainer tank is to be on its top and so on...

6. Now during your pumping process, somehow using the retainer and a very well thought out process you can increase the piston length but it is tedious.

7. So TLDR; clean the area between top and bottom surfaces between piston. Make mating faces clean 3x3 / 10 x 10 or whatever. drop topside and make the surfaces connect. Make arrangements and start pumping.

== The Significance of retracting bridge ==
In the room where magma is teleported above the piston when it drops is because the magma doesn't drip below. What is the use of teleporting massive amounts of magma and it legit drips down to where it was pumped from... One more factor is, if water were to fall in alone the pillar and connect to a piece of magma, it will attach the piston with the channel around leading to process disruption. Floor grates, flood gates didn't work in my case. Magma safe retractable bridges work excellently.
== Mega Piston Regnerator ==
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
== Compound Magma Piston ==
Very advanced stuff, basically, you make pump stack in between and place a gigantic piston at the top. If there is a huge gap in between two caverns, the design can be implemented in between them. You can use reducer pistons or something like that as well.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]

File:Cave in fundamental.png

2023-12-09T16:08:57Z

Sniper231996: Huge Strategic Cave in logic side view diagram

== Summary ==
Huge Strategic Cave in logic side view diagram
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

Magma piston

2023-12-09T16:05:51Z

Sniper231996: /* Magma Tapping */

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'''Magma pistons''' are used to move [[magma]] near the surface. This approach was developed by players as an alternative to [[screw pump#Pump stack|pump stack]]s. Magma pistons are used because they require less time and fewer precious materials to construct than pump stacks. However, magma pistons are a bit more complicated than pump stacks, so it takes more time to understand how to operate and build them.

== The concept ==
The piston method is based on a clever [[exploit|abuse]] of [[cave-in]] [[physics]]. The basic principle involves channeling out an area around a huge stone pillar, hundreds of z-levels tall, which will become the "piston" that drives magma to the top. Rest the piston on a single support, then carve out a tank at its base which will be filled with magma pumped from the magma sea. ('''Beware:''' building the piston directly over the magma sea will '''NOT''' work. The piston must be made entirely of ''natural'' (non-constructed) walls.) Once the tank has been filled, drop the piston by removing its support. Liquids displaced by a cave-in will "teleport" straight up to the nearest available space; here, the nearest available space will be the catchment area you thoughtfully prepared earlier atop the piston.

A simple magma piston works as shown in the following diagram:

'''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
~ = '''Magma'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''

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When the support is destroyed, the wall sections in the middle will fall down into the magma. The magma will teleport to the top of the piston, as shown in the following diagram:

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== Construction ==
A magma piston is composed of 4-5 parts: the catchment area, the magma reservoir, the support, the piston, and the obsidian caster (optional).

=== Catchment area ===
:The '''catchment area''' is located at the top of the piston. After the piston is dropped, the magma will spread out around the catchment area. In a repeating magma piston, some of the magma is used to cast obsidian on top of the piston, in order to reuse it. The volume and size of the catchment area must be carefully calculated to ensure that you won't have too much or too little magma above the piston for casting. Ideally, you want the depth of the magma above the piston to be 2. If the depth is 1, then the magma might evaporate and you won't be able to repair your piston. If the depth is greater than 2, then you're wasting magma if you cast it into obsidian. You can also make the catchment area multiple z-levels deep. If you need a catchment area smaller than possible with bridges or floodgates, you may use a floor-less [[Floodgate#Placement|floodgate]] to prevent the magma entering that square, while keeping the piston free to fall.

=== Magma reservoir ===
:The '''magma reservoir''' is dug out near the magma sea. You can't actually drop the piston directly into the magma sea because the bottom of the magma sea is [[semi-molten rock]], and it will completely destroy any piston dropped into it. The magma reservoir is artificial, so it won't have a floor made of semi-molten rock. This will allow the piston to rest on the floor of your reservoir. The magma reservoir needs three parts: a magma inlet, a magma drain, and an access corridor. After letting magma in, and dropping the piston, you'll want to dig out the bottom of the piston so you can drop it again. To do that, you need to drain any excess magma and let your workers in through the access corridor.

=== Support ===
:The '''support''' is what prevents your piston from dropping until you decide to pull the firing lever. The support can be located either at the bottom of the piston, as shown in the simplified diagram, or at the side of the piston (shown in the following diagram). If the support is at the bottom of the piston, then the support and the mechanism it uses must both be [[magma-safe]]. If it's at the side, then neither need to be magma-safe. Here's an example of a side-mounted support:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
'''X''' = '''Up/Down stairs'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''
= = '''Constructed floor'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Side-mounted support'''
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:In this diagram, you can see the catchment area at the top, and the piston in the middle of the shaft. The support structure is to the left. When the support element collapses, the two constructed floors will become unsupported, and then the piston will collapse. The stairs and hatch to the left of the constructed floors allows for convenient reconstruction of the support.

=== Piston ===
:The '''piston''' is the heart of the scheme. It may be 100-200 z-levels long, so it will take quite a while for your miners to dig it out. You may encounter trouble with caverns. Ideally, you should scout out the caverns and find a clear path straight down. If you can't find such a path, you can fix the problem as follows:

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:First, smooth the top and bottom, like so:

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:Now drop the top of the piston on to the floor of the cavern. You can use a cave-in to destroy the stairs quickly, if you remove all up-stairs first.

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=== Obsidian caster ===
:The '''obsidian caster''' is what allows you to rebuild your piston and get more magma. It's an application of techniques drawn from [[obsidian farming]]. The caster just needs to precisely dump water into the catchment area in order to form obsidian. A caster is composed of two parts: a water inlet, and a retracting bridge. Here's a sample design:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
F = '''Closed floodgate'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with water'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with magma'''
~ = '''Magma'''
~ = '''Water'''

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|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|F
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #00F; padding: 0"|±
|style="color: #00F; padding: 0"|±
|style="color: #00F; padding: 0"|±
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|±
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|±
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|P
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|P
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|P
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|}

:When you retract the bridge at the top, the water will fall straight down, and you'll get the following result:

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #00F; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #00F; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #00F; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #00F; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #00F; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|F
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
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|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|±
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|P
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|P
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|P
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|±
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|P
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|P
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|P
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|}

== Operation ==
The general procedure for operating a repeatable magma piston is as follows:

#Pull your firing lever to collapse the side support, thus dropping the piston into the magma.
#In the magma reservoir, close the inlet and open the drain to empty the magma and allow workers in later.
#Retract the bridge of the obsidian caster to drop water onto magma and rebuild the piston.
#Extend the bridge of the obsidian caster and open the inlet floodgate, to refill your caster's water supply.
#Reconstruct the side support and re-link it to your firing lever.
#Pump/drain any magma you want to use out of the catchment area.
#Allow workers into the magma reservoir when it's safe and empty, and dig out the bottom of the piston.
#Get the workers out of the reservoir and lock the door.
#In the magma reservoir, close the drain and open the inlet to fill it with magma.
#Remember to close the inlet floodgate of your obsidian caster.
#Make sure that your side-support is clear.
#When the magma reservoir is full, use your firing lever to restart the process.

== More information ==
The original discussion of this trick, including how to make the piston reusable, can be found in [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59894.0 this forum thread].
[[ru:Magma piston]]
That being said, I will link this here so that those who attempt this concept in the premium version have access to this guide.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924657714

== Magma Piston ==
So here I will begin the editing of a new chapter in magma pistons after the premium version has been released. The work that Fenwah and others on bay12forums began is still going on.
This page teaches you to:
*Finding the right spot using Dwarven Sonar
*Induce multi floor cave-in (to channel multiple floors very fast)
*Magma Tapping (breaking into the magma sea to get a source of magma for magma reservoir)
*Using portable drain ( For draining magma )
*Using Supports to drop the piston ( massive pillar of rock, 120 blocks high )
*Using water to reload the piston

== Dwarven Sonar ==
Now, how to do it? it is mentioned as follows :
*Go to build -> farming -> farm plot
*Drag and drop a square at any plot that is suitable for farming, but make sure to only select the starter tile and not the placement click.
*Now drag a big square, do not end the placement, max size plot, now scroll to lower tiles
*When you drag the mouse wheel and go below, the places where farm plot is place-able is visible
*Underground in undiscovered regions, where there is farm plot, there is a cavern
*I have shown a gif of how to do it below, it shows what is written here applied, in full.
*We have discovered 3 caverns in the mentioned manner.
*Where ever there is a cavern, it is visible by a different manner in placement pop-up
*Now when you discover the caverns, note the levels where you discover them and dig carefully.
*Cancel the placement option
Here is the big Gif, I have cropped the empty frames in the GIf. The relevant frames are kept in here.

{| class="wikitable"
|+
|-
! 1
|-
| [[File:Dwarven Sonar GIF 2.gif|thumb|The Sonar in action]]
|}

== Detailed Video ==
*5th April 2023:
*Youtube video:
[https://youtu.be/fnVPvjCLXvA?si=zhNOla5LOzKILDuW Magma Piston Video]

== Making a Portable Drain ==

A portable drain is a mine-cart dumping infinite amounts of water in a wall .
A quick TL;DR
*Make a track stop dumping into wall
*Place (Magma-safe material for magma) mine-cart on it with empty conditions/give or take stockpiles/
*Make sure the set-up is made one floor below the region to be drained
*one can place a pump, pumping fluid in to the mine-cart but then that needs automation
1. What you need is:
*A mine-cart -> Material depends on what you intend it for.
*A proper track stop - that - dumps - in to - a - wall, (maximum friction )
2. This is my portable magma drain design:
{| class="wikitable"
|+
|-
! 1
|-
| [[File:Portable Drain Layout.PNG|thumb|Portable Drain Layout example]]
|}

* Water -> Any mine-cart
*Magma -> Magma-safe material for cart
*The location of the drain is important.
*I usually channel a room and make it 1-Z level low, so the entire magma goes to the cart and drainsup, leaving the upper floor totally empty when needed.
*This will clear it up.
{| class="wikitable"
|+
|-
! 2
|-
| [[File:Drain explained.png|thumb|Portable Drain Logic]]
|}

3. Now we set the IRON drain dump stop:
{| class="wikitable"
|+
|-
! 3
|-
| [[File:Drain dump stop.png|thumb|Drain Dump designation]]
|}

4. Now we set the drain dump mine-cart
*Go to set mine-cart hauling routes, add a new route, then look at the index described below:
{| class="wikitable"
|+
|-
! 4
|-
| [[File:Minecart designations.png|thumb|Minecart icons explained]]
|}

5. Now we do this:
*Set track stop to the Iron track stop we made
*Set an IRON mine-cart to the stop
*delete every single conditions and leave it empty
*We do not want any conditions in it, we do not want it to take or give from any stockpile, nor do we want it to take any specific item. So we leave the below tab empty, except for the names
So I will re-cap this :
1. Add new track stop. 2. Click on iron track stop and name it. 3. Click on add mine-cart and add iron mine-cart. 4. Name the track-stop if you will. 5. Remove all conditions. 6. Let the items to be placed in be empty. 7. That should do it.
6. Now if the dumping into a wall and mine-cart with all empty and normal placement is there then it will work absolutely fine. There is only one way to test, fill it up with water or magma, it will drain the floors above its current floors, it will drain up to only 6/7 of the floor it is placed on. So the reason for its one floor lower placement. It is very important that you don't place the dump on the same floor as your desired draining floor.

== Magma Tapping ==
Magma Tapping has various methods, I will try to depict a very simple method:
*But before hand, there is a section in-game:
*Under Labour Tab
*Go to Stone use
This list gives you the list of magma safe materials, so in my case, I had a lot of dolomite, so I selected ( Allow dolomite to be used in normal stone jobs ). So I could make some magma safe grates and stuff. Another good idea is to use iron for all these magma operations.

So this is an approximate list of materials you'd want ready before going for magma pump
*Iron Pipe Section X 1
*Iron Blocks X 4 or 8
*Enormous Iron Cork-Screw X 1
*Iron Flood Gate X 2
*Iron Grates X 1
*Iron Mechanisms X as per need, because later on, we are going to need these a lot
*Iron Mine-cart
*A Portable Drain ( I will teach this )
*This is what you are looking forward to
{| class="wikitable"
|+
|-
! 1
|-
| [[File:Portable Drain Layout.PNG|thumb|Portable Drain Layout example]]
|}
*This is my Pump :
{| class="wikitable"
|+
|-
! 2
|-
| [[File:Pump.PNG|thumb|Magma Pump]]
|}

*This is magma below the Pump, the tile of magma has been channelled.
{| class="wikitable"
|+
|-
! 3
|-
| [[File:Below pump.PNG|thumb|View below the pump shown above]]
|}

Place the pump such that it is one tile ahead of the tile it is sucking from and place the direction of pumping carefully. We place the iron bars so that creatures don't come from underneath the magma into the fortress. The materials are made of iron so that the pump doesn't burn. The Door is placed as a precaution in case things don't work out as intended.
{| class="wikitable"
|+
|-
! 4
|-
| [[File:Pump working concept.png|thumb|Pumps working logic]]
|}

This is how it is intended to work, don't mind the burning trash, it just shows how non-fire proof materials melt to magma, whereas the pump, operator, grate, door and bars are safe, even the floodgate is safe and sound.
{| class="wikitable"
|+
|-
! 5
|-
| [[File:Magma Pumping.gif|thumb|Magma being pumped Gif File]]
|}

Now you know how to do it hopefully, good luck with the tapping. Some tips, when you hit warm rock, be exceptionally careful with it. Dig little little upwards and sideways to discover from what z level the warm rocks start, above that layer will be the pump. Also, better to have all materials ready before a magma man pays a visit through the hole you made in the magma sea. Yes, that will be the best I can explain it to you my dear reader.
This is the concept of the pump with things mentioned.

== Cave-in organising and executing ==
This is how a multi-floor cave-in is organised. This is the youtube video describing what is to be explained below now :
* [Youtube link to be posted here]
* This image explains the concept of the video as to how to do it, and all.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
We dig out the piston but the floors... 100 or perhaps 120.. 120 floor channelling? nah dude... This is a better alternative, a 100 or 120 floor digging itself takes an in-game year or so. So what we do is, above all these floors, make a support. on this support is a 5x5 square floor. This 5x5 square has a 3x3 hole in the centre. Attach the support to a lever, when all 100 or 120 floors are dug out, you just make sure all dwarves and creatures are away from these floors or it is instant death. So when you pull the lever, this 5x5 drops exactly on similar 5x5 floors supporting the piston. Every single floor below is destroyed. But the oiston is intact. Why? because it is supported by a support. So all that is left here is the piston alone, clean and beautiful. Now in our case, why is a piston shown? Why is this example describing a piston? Why a piston in a cave in? Because, that video shows the magma piston that is to be used in our guide and that video is a great example of how to clean multiple floors. Yes, even TwistedLogicgaming destroyed an entire island with a floor collapse. So now enough chit chat, lets go to a small summary.

== What have we learnt so far and why? ==
We have learnt
*To find the caverns to suitably dig for the piston.
*To cause a massive cave-in to dig the circumference of the magma piston.
*To carefully pump magma in a designated place.
*And then to drain it very effectively.

== ''''' Magma Piston ''''' ==
Video is right here :
* [Youtube link here]
*Let us get into this, this below image is just for reference: a general understanding of the entire process:
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is the top level : The Obsidian Regenerator'''
*An obsidian Regenerator servers one purpose,to recreate the blocks we dig at the base at the piston. The way this works is, we have a retracting bridge on exactly top of the magma piston head. This retractable bridge will have water on top of it 7/7. This draw bridge is covered on all sides. Water inlet and outlet is floodgate controlled. When we retract, the water 7/7 exactly falls down on the piston head creating 2/7 (minimum magma to be present) magma to obsidian. This completes the regeneration.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is the level where magma forges will be build:'''
*When magma is pumped here, there needs to be micro-management else this magma that is being pumped will freely flow and become cold. If this magma entirely becomes cold, then the obsidian regenerator won't work. This causes the entire project to be fu(k3d because the absence of magma makes the entire repeatability of the project to fail. So a save before first pump is always advised.
*In this image, there are series of channels and slots dug out for the Forge placement. There are several levers controlling <Magma-Safe> draw-bridges below.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is where the magma floods in:'''
*The bridges control the magma flow. Every single draw bridge is retracted before the first pump. The floodgate is a critical part and a grate installation is highly advised. Sequential opening and repeating of pumping further opening the bridges to allow more and more magma flow to make it minimum 4/4. In the first three piston drops, one magma forge will be running. Took me 3 pumps and mirco-management to get it running honestly
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how it looks post piston drop:'''
*The support has been pulled by the lever, the entire pillar/piston falls down. Upon falling down the area occupied by magma which is replaced by the piston is instantly teleported on top of it, hence the name " Magma Piston " also depicted in the fan-art posted before.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how the bottom design is:'''
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how it looks when flooded with magma and piston drops down:'''
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''Magma Piston types -'''
*magma pistons are of two types specifically :
*Re-usable:-
*one such as ours with only a single z-level dropping into magma. This single z-level can be easily regenerated with water drop on magma at the piston top surface as shown in video
*Non-re-usable:-
*the one which is made for a single time use, use like a magma moat... what happens in this is, the piston literally drops in a massive tank full of magma, multiple z-levels deep. Such as 10 Length x 10 Breadth x 5 Levels, so 3,500 units of magma to be transferred. The upper surface must be prepared well to hold this magma as well to use else it can flood the fort leading massive Fun.
multiple z-level regeneration is not possible so this is a single use massive piston. Does the trick though.

== Cavern between piston ==
The Problem of Cavern occurring in between the piston parts.
Firstly, for a project like this, exploration of caverns is primarily advised. Radar isn't sufficient to pull off the direct exploration. The problem occurs when there is a small cavern and there ain't no perfect spot without cavern occurring in between the piston. So this is the method to solve that problem.

1. Make the top and bottom piston. The bottom piston is held by a support. The top piston is to be dropped but not directly. keep top and bottom ready.

2. Every single thing in between the top and bottom of pistons to be dug clean. Nothing but air between the top and bottom.

3. Now the top side piston column may have un-even bottom and the top-surface of the bottom piston can be un-even. We make it smooth 3x3 on top and bottom so that the mating surfaces are clean and 3x3 with nothing in between.

4. Drop top piston on bottom piston.

5. Now the part where the piston top is there , 1z level below is your magma pumping chamber and obsidian retainer tank is to be on its top and so on...

6. Now during your pumping process, somehow using the retainer and a very well thought out process you can increase the piston length but it is tedious.

7. So TLDR; clean the area between top and bottom surfaces between piston. Make mating faces clean 3x3 / 10 x 10 or whatever. drop topside and make the surfaces connect. Make arrangements and start pumping.

== The Significance of retracting bridge ==
In the room where magma is teleported above the piston when it drops is because the magma doesn't drip below. What is the use of teleporting massive amounts of magma and it legit drips down to where it was pumped from... One more factor is, if water were to fall in alone the pillar and connect to a piece of magma, it will attach the piston with the channel around leading to process disruption. Floor grates, flood gates didn't work in my case. Magma safe retractable bridges work excellently.
== Mega Piston Regnerator ==
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
== Compound Magma Piston ==
Very advanced stuff, basically, you make pump stack in between and place a gigantic piston at the top. If there is a huge gap in between two caverns, the design can be implemented in between them. You can use reducer pistons or something like that as well.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]

File:Magma Pumping.gif

2023-12-09T16:03:07Z

Sniper231996: A magma being pumped manually GIF file

== Summary ==
A magma being pumped manually GIF file
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

File:Pump working concept.png

2023-12-09T16:02:19Z

Sniper231996: The logic behind a simple magma pump.

== Summary ==
The logic behind a simple magma pump.
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

File:Below pump.PNG

2023-12-09T16:01:52Z

Sniper231996: Tiles below a magma pump one block behind specifically to pump magma

== Summary ==
Tiles below a magma pump one block behind specifically to pump magma
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

File:Pump.PNG

2023-12-09T16:01:13Z

Sniper231996: A pump made to pump magma specifically.

== Summary ==
A pump made to pump magma specifically.
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

Magma piston

2023-12-09T15:57:52Z

Sniper231996: /* Magma Tapping */

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{Projects}}
{{av}}
'''Magma pistons''' are used to move [[magma]] near the surface. This approach was developed by players as an alternative to [[screw pump#Pump stack|pump stack]]s. Magma pistons are used because they require less time and fewer precious materials to construct than pump stacks. However, magma pistons are a bit more complicated than pump stacks, so it takes more time to understand how to operate and build them.

== The concept ==
The piston method is based on a clever [[exploit|abuse]] of [[cave-in]] [[physics]]. The basic principle involves channeling out an area around a huge stone pillar, hundreds of z-levels tall, which will become the "piston" that drives magma to the top. Rest the piston on a single support, then carve out a tank at its base which will be filled with magma pumped from the magma sea. ('''Beware:''' building the piston directly over the magma sea will '''NOT''' work. The piston must be made entirely of ''natural'' (non-constructed) walls.) Once the tank has been filled, drop the piston by removing its support. Liquids displaced by a cave-in will "teleport" straight up to the nearest available space; here, the nearest available space will be the catchment area you thoughtfully prepared earlier atop the piston.

A simple magma piston works as shown in the following diagram:

'''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
~ = '''Magma'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Basic magma piston design (side view)'''
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|S
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|}

When the support is destroyed, the wall sections in the middle will fall down into the magma. The magma will teleport to the top of the piston, as shown in the following diagram:

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|_
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #970; padding: 0"|_
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
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|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|~
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|}

== Construction ==
A magma piston is composed of 4-5 parts: the catchment area, the magma reservoir, the support, the piston, and the obsidian caster (optional).

=== Catchment area ===
:The '''catchment area''' is located at the top of the piston. After the piston is dropped, the magma will spread out around the catchment area. In a repeating magma piston, some of the magma is used to cast obsidian on top of the piston, in order to reuse it. The volume and size of the catchment area must be carefully calculated to ensure that you won't have too much or too little magma above the piston for casting. Ideally, you want the depth of the magma above the piston to be 2. If the depth is 1, then the magma might evaporate and you won't be able to repair your piston. If the depth is greater than 2, then you're wasting magma if you cast it into obsidian. You can also make the catchment area multiple z-levels deep. If you need a catchment area smaller than possible with bridges or floodgates, you may use a floor-less [[Floodgate#Placement|floodgate]] to prevent the magma entering that square, while keeping the piston free to fall.

=== Magma reservoir ===
:The '''magma reservoir''' is dug out near the magma sea. You can't actually drop the piston directly into the magma sea because the bottom of the magma sea is [[semi-molten rock]], and it will completely destroy any piston dropped into it. The magma reservoir is artificial, so it won't have a floor made of semi-molten rock. This will allow the piston to rest on the floor of your reservoir. The magma reservoir needs three parts: a magma inlet, a magma drain, and an access corridor. After letting magma in, and dropping the piston, you'll want to dig out the bottom of the piston so you can drop it again. To do that, you need to drain any excess magma and let your workers in through the access corridor.

=== Support ===
:The '''support''' is what prevents your piston from dropping until you decide to pull the firing lever. The support can be located either at the bottom of the piston, as shown in the simplified diagram, or at the side of the piston (shown in the following diagram). If the support is at the bottom of the piston, then the support and the mechanism it uses must both be [[magma-safe]]. If it's at the side, then neither need to be magma-safe. Here's an example of a side-mounted support:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
'''X''' = '''Up/Down stairs'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''
= = '''Constructed floor'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
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:In this diagram, you can see the catchment area at the top, and the piston in the middle of the shaft. The support structure is to the left. When the support element collapses, the two constructed floors will become unsupported, and then the piston will collapse. The stairs and hatch to the left of the constructed floors allows for convenient reconstruction of the support.

=== Piston ===
:The '''piston''' is the heart of the scheme. It may be 100-200 z-levels long, so it will take quite a while for your miners to dig it out. You may encounter trouble with caverns. Ideally, you should scout out the caverns and find a clear path straight down. If you can't find such a path, you can fix the problem as follows:

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:First, smooth the top and bottom, like so:

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:Now drop the top of the piston on to the floor of the cavern. You can use a cave-in to destroy the stairs quickly, if you remove all up-stairs first.

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=== Obsidian caster ===
:The '''obsidian caster''' is what allows you to rebuild your piston and get more magma. It's an application of techniques drawn from [[obsidian farming]]. The caster just needs to precisely dump water into the catchment area in order to form obsidian. A caster is composed of two parts: a water inlet, and a retracting bridge. Here's a sample design:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
F = '''Closed floodgate'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with water'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with magma'''
~ = '''Magma'''
~ = '''Water'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
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:When you retract the bridge at the top, the water will fall straight down, and you'll get the following result:

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== Operation ==
The general procedure for operating a repeatable magma piston is as follows:

#Pull your firing lever to collapse the side support, thus dropping the piston into the magma.
#In the magma reservoir, close the inlet and open the drain to empty the magma and allow workers in later.
#Retract the bridge of the obsidian caster to drop water onto magma and rebuild the piston.
#Extend the bridge of the obsidian caster and open the inlet floodgate, to refill your caster's water supply.
#Reconstruct the side support and re-link it to your firing lever.
#Pump/drain any magma you want to use out of the catchment area.
#Allow workers into the magma reservoir when it's safe and empty, and dig out the bottom of the piston.
#Get the workers out of the reservoir and lock the door.
#In the magma reservoir, close the drain and open the inlet to fill it with magma.
#Remember to close the inlet floodgate of your obsidian caster.
#Make sure that your side-support is clear.
#When the magma reservoir is full, use your firing lever to restart the process.

== More information ==
The original discussion of this trick, including how to make the piston reusable, can be found in [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59894.0 this forum thread].
[[ru:Magma piston]]
That being said, I will link this here so that those who attempt this concept in the premium version have access to this guide.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924657714

== Magma Piston ==
So here I will begin the editing of a new chapter in magma pistons after the premium version has been released. The work that Fenwah and others on bay12forums began is still going on.
This page teaches you to:
*Finding the right spot using Dwarven Sonar
*Induce multi floor cave-in (to channel multiple floors very fast)
*Magma Tapping (breaking into the magma sea to get a source of magma for magma reservoir)
*Using portable drain ( For draining magma )
*Using Supports to drop the piston ( massive pillar of rock, 120 blocks high )
*Using water to reload the piston

== Dwarven Sonar ==
Now, how to do it? it is mentioned as follows :
*Go to build -> farming -> farm plot
*Drag and drop a square at any plot that is suitable for farming, but make sure to only select the starter tile and not the placement click.
*Now drag a big square, do not end the placement, max size plot, now scroll to lower tiles
*When you drag the mouse wheel and go below, the places where farm plot is place-able is visible
*Underground in undiscovered regions, where there is farm plot, there is a cavern
*I have shown a gif of how to do it below, it shows what is written here applied, in full.
*We have discovered 3 caverns in the mentioned manner.
*Where ever there is a cavern, it is visible by a different manner in placement pop-up
*Now when you discover the caverns, note the levels where you discover them and dig carefully.
*Cancel the placement option
Here is the big Gif, I have cropped the empty frames in the GIf. The relevant frames are kept in here.

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== Detailed Video ==
*5th April 2023:
*Youtube video:
[https://youtu.be/fnVPvjCLXvA?si=zhNOla5LOzKILDuW Magma Piston Video]

== Making a Portable Drain ==

A portable drain is a mine-cart dumping infinite amounts of water in a wall .
A quick TL;DR
*Make a track stop dumping into wall
*Place (Magma-safe material for magma) mine-cart on it with empty conditions/give or take stockpiles/
*Make sure the set-up is made one floor below the region to be drained
*one can place a pump, pumping fluid in to the mine-cart but then that needs automation
1. What you need is:
*A mine-cart -> Material depends on what you intend it for.
*A proper track stop - that - dumps - in to - a - wall, (maximum friction )
2. This is my portable magma drain design:
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* Water -> Any mine-cart
*Magma -> Magma-safe material for cart
*The location of the drain is important.
*I usually channel a room and make it 1-Z level low, so the entire magma goes to the cart and drainsup, leaving the upper floor totally empty when needed.
*This will clear it up.
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3. Now we set the IRON drain dump stop:
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4. Now we set the drain dump mine-cart
*Go to set mine-cart hauling routes, add a new route, then look at the index described below:
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5. Now we do this:
*Set track stop to the Iron track stop we made
*Set an IRON mine-cart to the stop
*delete every single conditions and leave it empty
*We do not want any conditions in it, we do not want it to take or give from any stockpile, nor do we want it to take any specific item. So we leave the below tab empty, except for the names
So I will re-cap this :
1. Add new track stop. 2. Click on iron track stop and name it. 3. Click on add mine-cart and add iron mine-cart. 4. Name the track-stop if you will. 5. Remove all conditions. 6. Let the items to be placed in be empty. 7. That should do it.
6. Now if the dumping into a wall and mine-cart with all empty and normal placement is there then it will work absolutely fine. There is only one way to test, fill it up with water or magma, it will drain the floors above its current floors, it will drain up to only 6/7 of the floor it is placed on. So the reason for its one floor lower placement. It is very important that you don't place the dump on the same floor as your desired draining floor.

== Magma Tapping ==
Magma Tapping has various methods, I will try to depict a very simple method:
*But before hand, there is a section in-game:
*Under Labour Tab
*Go to Stone use
This list gives you the list of magma safe materials, so in my case, I had a lot of dolomite, so I selected ( Allow dolomite to be used in normal stone jobs ). So I could make some magma safe grates and stuff. Another good idea is to use iron for all these magma operations.

So this is an approximate list of materials you'd want ready before going for magma pump
*Iron Pipe Section X 1
*Iron Blocks X 4 or 8
*Enormous Iron Cork-Screw X 1
*Iron Flood Gate X 2
*Iron Grates X 1
*Iron Mechanisms X as per need, because later on, we are going to need these a lot
*Iron Mine-cart
*A Portable Drain ( I will teach this )
*This is what you are looking forward to
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*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]

*This is my Pump :
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*This is magma below the Pump, the tile of magma has been channelled.
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Place the pump such that it is one tile ahead of the tile it is sucking from and place the direction of pumping carefully. We place the iron bars so that creatures don't come from underneath the magma into the fortress. The materials are made of iron so that the pump doesn't burn. The Door is placed as a precaution in case things don't work out as intended.
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*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]

This is how it is intended to work, don't mind the burning trash, it just shows how non-fire proof materials melt to magma, whereas the pump, operator, grate, door and bars are safe, even the floodgate is safe and sound.
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Now you know how to do it hopefully, good luck with the tapping. Some tips, when you hit warm rock, be exceptionally careful with it. Dig little little upwards and sideways to discover from what z level the warm rocks start, above that layer will be the pump. Also, better to have all materials ready before a magma man pays a visit through the hole you made in the magma sea. Yes, that will be the best I can explain it to you my dear reader.
This is the concept of the pump with things mentioned.

== Cave-in organising and executing ==
This is how a multi-floor cave-in is organised. This is the youtube video describing what is to be explained below now :
* [Youtube link to be posted here]
* This image explains the concept of the video as to how to do it, and all.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
We dig out the piston but the floors... 100 or perhaps 120.. 120 floor channelling? nah dude... This is a better alternative, a 100 or 120 floor digging itself takes an in-game year or so. So what we do is, above all these floors, make a support. on this support is a 5x5 square floor. This 5x5 square has a 3x3 hole in the centre. Attach the support to a lever, when all 100 or 120 floors are dug out, you just make sure all dwarves and creatures are away from these floors or it is instant death. So when you pull the lever, this 5x5 drops exactly on similar 5x5 floors supporting the piston. Every single floor below is destroyed. But the oiston is intact. Why? because it is supported by a support. So all that is left here is the piston alone, clean and beautiful. Now in our case, why is a piston shown? Why is this example describing a piston? Why a piston in a cave in? Because, that video shows the magma piston that is to be used in our guide and that video is a great example of how to clean multiple floors. Yes, even TwistedLogicgaming destroyed an entire island with a floor collapse. So now enough chit chat, lets go to a small summary.

== What have we learnt so far and why? ==
We have learnt
*To find the caverns to suitably dig for the piston.
*To cause a massive cave-in to dig the circumference of the magma piston.
*To carefully pump magma in a designated place.
*And then to drain it very effectively.

== ''''' Magma Piston ''''' ==
Video is right here :
* [Youtube link here]
*Let us get into this, this below image is just for reference: a general understanding of the entire process:
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is the top level : The Obsidian Regenerator'''
*An obsidian Regenerator servers one purpose,to recreate the blocks we dig at the base at the piston. The way this works is, we have a retracting bridge on exactly top of the magma piston head. This retractable bridge will have water on top of it 7/7. This draw bridge is covered on all sides. Water inlet and outlet is floodgate controlled. When we retract, the water 7/7 exactly falls down on the piston head creating 2/7 (minimum magma to be present) magma to obsidian. This completes the regeneration.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is the level where magma forges will be build:'''
*When magma is pumped here, there needs to be micro-management else this magma that is being pumped will freely flow and become cold. If this magma entirely becomes cold, then the obsidian regenerator won't work. This causes the entire project to be fu(k3d because the absence of magma makes the entire repeatability of the project to fail. So a save before first pump is always advised.
*In this image, there are series of channels and slots dug out for the Forge placement. There are several levers controlling <Magma-Safe> draw-bridges below.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is where the magma floods in:'''
*The bridges control the magma flow. Every single draw bridge is retracted before the first pump. The floodgate is a critical part and a grate installation is highly advised. Sequential opening and repeating of pumping further opening the bridges to allow more and more magma flow to make it minimum 4/4. In the first three piston drops, one magma forge will be running. Took me 3 pumps and mirco-management to get it running honestly
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how it looks post piston drop:'''
*The support has been pulled by the lever, the entire pillar/piston falls down. Upon falling down the area occupied by magma which is replaced by the piston is instantly teleported on top of it, hence the name " Magma Piston " also depicted in the fan-art posted before.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how the bottom design is:'''
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how it looks when flooded with magma and piston drops down:'''
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''Magma Piston types -'''
*magma pistons are of two types specifically :
*Re-usable:-
*one such as ours with only a single z-level dropping into magma. This single z-level can be easily regenerated with water drop on magma at the piston top surface as shown in video
*Non-re-usable:-
*the one which is made for a single time use, use like a magma moat... what happens in this is, the piston literally drops in a massive tank full of magma, multiple z-levels deep. Such as 10 Length x 10 Breadth x 5 Levels, so 3,500 units of magma to be transferred. The upper surface must be prepared well to hold this magma as well to use else it can flood the fort leading massive Fun.
multiple z-level regeneration is not possible so this is a single use massive piston. Does the trick though.

== Cavern between piston ==
The Problem of Cavern occurring in between the piston parts.
Firstly, for a project like this, exploration of caverns is primarily advised. Radar isn't sufficient to pull off the direct exploration. The problem occurs when there is a small cavern and there ain't no perfect spot without cavern occurring in between the piston. So this is the method to solve that problem.

1. Make the top and bottom piston. The bottom piston is held by a support. The top piston is to be dropped but not directly. keep top and bottom ready.

2. Every single thing in between the top and bottom of pistons to be dug clean. Nothing but air between the top and bottom.

3. Now the top side piston column may have un-even bottom and the top-surface of the bottom piston can be un-even. We make it smooth 3x3 on top and bottom so that the mating surfaces are clean and 3x3 with nothing in between.

4. Drop top piston on bottom piston.

5. Now the part where the piston top is there , 1z level below is your magma pumping chamber and obsidian retainer tank is to be on its top and so on...

6. Now during your pumping process, somehow using the retainer and a very well thought out process you can increase the piston length but it is tedious.

7. So TLDR; clean the area between top and bottom surfaces between piston. Make mating faces clean 3x3 / 10 x 10 or whatever. drop topside and make the surfaces connect. Make arrangements and start pumping.

== The Significance of retracting bridge ==
In the room where magma is teleported above the piston when it drops is because the magma doesn't drip below. What is the use of teleporting massive amounts of magma and it legit drips down to where it was pumped from... One more factor is, if water were to fall in alone the pillar and connect to a piece of magma, it will attach the piston with the channel around leading to process disruption. Floor grates, flood gates didn't work in my case. Magma safe retractable bridges work excellently.
== Mega Piston Regnerator ==
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
== Compound Magma Piston ==
Very advanced stuff, basically, you make pump stack in between and place a gigantic piston at the top. If there is a huge gap in between two caverns, the design can be implemented in between them. You can use reducer pistons or something like that as well.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]

Magma piston

2023-12-09T15:55:16Z

Sniper231996: /* Dwarven Sonar */

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'''Magma pistons''' are used to move [[magma]] near the surface. This approach was developed by players as an alternative to [[screw pump#Pump stack|pump stack]]s. Magma pistons are used because they require less time and fewer precious materials to construct than pump stacks. However, magma pistons are a bit more complicated than pump stacks, so it takes more time to understand how to operate and build them.

== The concept ==
The piston method is based on a clever [[exploit|abuse]] of [[cave-in]] [[physics]]. The basic principle involves channeling out an area around a huge stone pillar, hundreds of z-levels tall, which will become the "piston" that drives magma to the top. Rest the piston on a single support, then carve out a tank at its base which will be filled with magma pumped from the magma sea. ('''Beware:''' building the piston directly over the magma sea will '''NOT''' work. The piston must be made entirely of ''natural'' (non-constructed) walls.) Once the tank has been filled, drop the piston by removing its support. Liquids displaced by a cave-in will "teleport" straight up to the nearest available space; here, the nearest available space will be the catchment area you thoughtfully prepared earlier atop the piston.

A simple magma piston works as shown in the following diagram:

'''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
~ = '''Magma'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''

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When the support is destroyed, the wall sections in the middle will fall down into the magma. The magma will teleport to the top of the piston, as shown in the following diagram:

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== Construction ==
A magma piston is composed of 4-5 parts: the catchment area, the magma reservoir, the support, the piston, and the obsidian caster (optional).

=== Catchment area ===
:The '''catchment area''' is located at the top of the piston. After the piston is dropped, the magma will spread out around the catchment area. In a repeating magma piston, some of the magma is used to cast obsidian on top of the piston, in order to reuse it. The volume and size of the catchment area must be carefully calculated to ensure that you won't have too much or too little magma above the piston for casting. Ideally, you want the depth of the magma above the piston to be 2. If the depth is 1, then the magma might evaporate and you won't be able to repair your piston. If the depth is greater than 2, then you're wasting magma if you cast it into obsidian. You can also make the catchment area multiple z-levels deep. If you need a catchment area smaller than possible with bridges or floodgates, you may use a floor-less [[Floodgate#Placement|floodgate]] to prevent the magma entering that square, while keeping the piston free to fall.

=== Magma reservoir ===
:The '''magma reservoir''' is dug out near the magma sea. You can't actually drop the piston directly into the magma sea because the bottom of the magma sea is [[semi-molten rock]], and it will completely destroy any piston dropped into it. The magma reservoir is artificial, so it won't have a floor made of semi-molten rock. This will allow the piston to rest on the floor of your reservoir. The magma reservoir needs three parts: a magma inlet, a magma drain, and an access corridor. After letting magma in, and dropping the piston, you'll want to dig out the bottom of the piston so you can drop it again. To do that, you need to drain any excess magma and let your workers in through the access corridor.

=== Support ===
:The '''support''' is what prevents your piston from dropping until you decide to pull the firing lever. The support can be located either at the bottom of the piston, as shown in the simplified diagram, or at the side of the piston (shown in the following diagram). If the support is at the bottom of the piston, then the support and the mechanism it uses must both be [[magma-safe]]. If it's at the side, then neither need to be magma-safe. Here's an example of a side-mounted support:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
'''X''' = '''Up/Down stairs'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''
= = '''Constructed floor'''

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:In this diagram, you can see the catchment area at the top, and the piston in the middle of the shaft. The support structure is to the left. When the support element collapses, the two constructed floors will become unsupported, and then the piston will collapse. The stairs and hatch to the left of the constructed floors allows for convenient reconstruction of the support.

=== Piston ===
:The '''piston''' is the heart of the scheme. It may be 100-200 z-levels long, so it will take quite a while for your miners to dig it out. You may encounter trouble with caverns. Ideally, you should scout out the caverns and find a clear path straight down. If you can't find such a path, you can fix the problem as follows:

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:First, smooth the top and bottom, like so:

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:Now drop the top of the piston on to the floor of the cavern. You can use a cave-in to destroy the stairs quickly, if you remove all up-stairs first.

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=== Obsidian caster ===
:The '''obsidian caster''' is what allows you to rebuild your piston and get more magma. It's an application of techniques drawn from [[obsidian farming]]. The caster just needs to precisely dump water into the catchment area in order to form obsidian. A caster is composed of two parts: a water inlet, and a retracting bridge. Here's a sample design:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
F = '''Closed floodgate'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with water'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with magma'''
~ = '''Magma'''
~ = '''Water'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Obsidian caster'''
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #00F; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #00F; padding: 0"|~
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|style="color: #00F; padding: 0"|~
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|}

:When you retract the bridge at the top, the water will fall straight down, and you'll get the following result:

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|#
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|±
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|P
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|P
|style="color: #000; padding: 0"|P
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|±
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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|}

== Operation ==
The general procedure for operating a repeatable magma piston is as follows:

#Pull your firing lever to collapse the side support, thus dropping the piston into the magma.
#In the magma reservoir, close the inlet and open the drain to empty the magma and allow workers in later.
#Retract the bridge of the obsidian caster to drop water onto magma and rebuild the piston.
#Extend the bridge of the obsidian caster and open the inlet floodgate, to refill your caster's water supply.
#Reconstruct the side support and re-link it to your firing lever.
#Pump/drain any magma you want to use out of the catchment area.
#Allow workers into the magma reservoir when it's safe and empty, and dig out the bottom of the piston.
#Get the workers out of the reservoir and lock the door.
#In the magma reservoir, close the drain and open the inlet to fill it with magma.
#Remember to close the inlet floodgate of your obsidian caster.
#Make sure that your side-support is clear.
#When the magma reservoir is full, use your firing lever to restart the process.

== More information ==
The original discussion of this trick, including how to make the piston reusable, can be found in [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59894.0 this forum thread].
[[ru:Magma piston]]
That being said, I will link this here so that those who attempt this concept in the premium version have access to this guide.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924657714

== Magma Piston ==
So here I will begin the editing of a new chapter in magma pistons after the premium version has been released. The work that Fenwah and others on bay12forums began is still going on.
This page teaches you to:
*Finding the right spot using Dwarven Sonar
*Induce multi floor cave-in (to channel multiple floors very fast)
*Magma Tapping (breaking into the magma sea to get a source of magma for magma reservoir)
*Using portable drain ( For draining magma )
*Using Supports to drop the piston ( massive pillar of rock, 120 blocks high )
*Using water to reload the piston

== Dwarven Sonar ==
Now, how to do it? it is mentioned as follows :
*Go to build -> farming -> farm plot
*Drag and drop a square at any plot that is suitable for farming, but make sure to only select the starter tile and not the placement click.
*Now drag a big square, do not end the placement, max size plot, now scroll to lower tiles
*When you drag the mouse wheel and go below, the places where farm plot is place-able is visible
*Underground in undiscovered regions, where there is farm plot, there is a cavern
*I have shown a gif of how to do it below, it shows what is written here applied, in full.
*We have discovered 3 caverns in the mentioned manner.
*Where ever there is a cavern, it is visible by a different manner in placement pop-up
*Now when you discover the caverns, note the levels where you discover them and dig carefully.
*Cancel the placement option
Here is the big Gif, I have cropped the empty frames in the GIf. The relevant frames are kept in here.

{| class="wikitable"
|+
|-
! 1
|-
| [[File:Dwarven Sonar GIF 2.gif|thumb|The Sonar in action]]
|}

== Detailed Video ==
*5th April 2023:
*Youtube video:
[https://youtu.be/fnVPvjCLXvA?si=zhNOla5LOzKILDuW Magma Piston Video]

== Making a Portable Drain ==

A portable drain is a mine-cart dumping infinite amounts of water in a wall .
A quick TL;DR
*Make a track stop dumping into wall
*Place (Magma-safe material for magma) mine-cart on it with empty conditions/give or take stockpiles/
*Make sure the set-up is made one floor below the region to be drained
*one can place a pump, pumping fluid in to the mine-cart but then that needs automation
1. What you need is:
*A mine-cart -> Material depends on what you intend it for.
*A proper track stop - that - dumps - in to - a - wall, (maximum friction )
2. This is my portable magma drain design:
{| class="wikitable"
|+
|-
! 1
|-
| [[File:Portable Drain Layout.PNG|thumb|Portable Drain Layout example]]
|}

* Water -> Any mine-cart
*Magma -> Magma-safe material for cart
*The location of the drain is important.
*I usually channel a room and make it 1-Z level low, so the entire magma goes to the cart and drainsup, leaving the upper floor totally empty when needed.
*This will clear it up.
{| class="wikitable"
|+
|-
! 2
|-
| [[File:Drain explained.png|thumb|Portable Drain Logic]]
|}

3. Now we set the IRON drain dump stop:
{| class="wikitable"
|+
|-
! 3
|-
| [[File:Drain dump stop.png|thumb|Drain Dump designation]]
|}

4. Now we set the drain dump mine-cart
*Go to set mine-cart hauling routes, add a new route, then look at the index described below:
{| class="wikitable"
|+
|-
! 4
|-
| [[File:Minecart designations.png|thumb|Minecart icons explained]]
|}

5. Now we do this:
*Set track stop to the Iron track stop we made
*Set an IRON mine-cart to the stop
*delete every single conditions and leave it empty
*We do not want any conditions in it, we do not want it to take or give from any stockpile, nor do we want it to take any specific item. So we leave the below tab empty, except for the names
So I will re-cap this :
1. Add new track stop. 2. Click on iron track stop and name it. 3. Click on add mine-cart and add iron mine-cart. 4. Name the track-stop if you will. 5. Remove all conditions. 6. Let the items to be placed in be empty. 7. That should do it.
6. Now if the dumping into a wall and mine-cart with all empty and normal placement is there then it will work absolutely fine. There is only one way to test, fill it up with water or magma, it will drain the floors above its current floors, it will drain up to only 6/7 of the floor it is placed on. So the reason for its one floor lower placement. It is very important that you don't place the dump on the same floor as your desired draining floor.

== Magma Tapping ==
Magma Tapping has various methods, I will try to depict a very simple method:
*But before hand, there is a section in-game:
*Under Labour Tab
*Go to Stone use
This list gives you the list of magma safe materials, so in my case, I had a lot of dolomite, so I selected ( Allow dolomite to be used in normal stone jobs ). So I could make some magma safe grates and stuff. Another good idea is to use iron for all these magma operations.

So this is an approximate list of materials you'd want ready before going for magma pump
*Iron Pipe Section X 1
*Iron Blocks X 4 or 8
*Enormous Iron Cork-Screw X 1
*Iron Flood Gate X 2
*Iron Grates X 1
*Iron Mechanisms X as per need, because later on, we are going to need these a lot
*Iron Mine-cart
*A Portable Drain ( I will teach this )
*This is what you are looking forward to
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*This is my Pump :
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*This is magma below the Pump, the tile of magma has been channelled.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
Place the pump such that it is one tile ahead of the tile it is sucking from and place the direction of pumping carefully. We place the iron bars so that creatures don't come from underneath the magma into the fortress. The materials are made of iron so that the pump doesn't burn. The Door is placed as a precaution in case things don't work out as intended.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
This is how it is intended to work, don't mind the burning trash, it just shows how non-fire proof materials melt to magma, whereas the pump, operator, grate, door and bars are safe, even the floodgate is safe and sound.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
Now you know how to do it hopefully, good luck with the tapping. Some tips, when you hit warm rock, be exceptionally careful with it. Dig little little upwards and sideways to discover from what z level the warm rocks start, above that layer will be the pump. Also, better to have all materials ready before a magma man pays a visit through the hole you made in the magma sea. Yes, that will be the best I can explain it to you my dear reader.
This is the concept of the pump with things mentioned.

== Cave-in organising and executing ==
This is how a multi-floor cave-in is organised. This is the youtube video describing what is to be explained below now :
* [Youtube link to be posted here]
* This image explains the concept of the video as to how to do it, and all.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
We dig out the piston but the floors... 100 or perhaps 120.. 120 floor channelling? nah dude... This is a better alternative, a 100 or 120 floor digging itself takes an in-game year or so. So what we do is, above all these floors, make a support. on this support is a 5x5 square floor. This 5x5 square has a 3x3 hole in the centre. Attach the support to a lever, when all 100 or 120 floors are dug out, you just make sure all dwarves and creatures are away from these floors or it is instant death. So when you pull the lever, this 5x5 drops exactly on similar 5x5 floors supporting the piston. Every single floor below is destroyed. But the oiston is intact. Why? because it is supported by a support. So all that is left here is the piston alone, clean and beautiful. Now in our case, why is a piston shown? Why is this example describing a piston? Why a piston in a cave in? Because, that video shows the magma piston that is to be used in our guide and that video is a great example of how to clean multiple floors. Yes, even TwistedLogicgaming destroyed an entire island with a floor collapse. So now enough chit chat, lets go to a small summary.

== What have we learnt so far and why? ==
We have learnt
*To find the caverns to suitably dig for the piston.
*To cause a massive cave-in to dig the circumference of the magma piston.
*To carefully pump magma in a designated place.
*And then to drain it very effectively.

== ''''' Magma Piston ''''' ==
Video is right here :
* [Youtube link here]
*Let us get into this, this below image is just for reference: a general understanding of the entire process:
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is the top level : The Obsidian Regenerator'''
*An obsidian Regenerator servers one purpose,to recreate the blocks we dig at the base at the piston. The way this works is, we have a retracting bridge on exactly top of the magma piston head. This retractable bridge will have water on top of it 7/7. This draw bridge is covered on all sides. Water inlet and outlet is floodgate controlled. When we retract, the water 7/7 exactly falls down on the piston head creating 2/7 (minimum magma to be present) magma to obsidian. This completes the regeneration.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is the level where magma forges will be build:'''
*When magma is pumped here, there needs to be micro-management else this magma that is being pumped will freely flow and become cold. If this magma entirely becomes cold, then the obsidian regenerator won't work. This causes the entire project to be fu(k3d because the absence of magma makes the entire repeatability of the project to fail. So a save before first pump is always advised.
*In this image, there are series of channels and slots dug out for the Forge placement. There are several levers controlling <Magma-Safe> draw-bridges below.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is where the magma floods in:'''
*The bridges control the magma flow. Every single draw bridge is retracted before the first pump. The floodgate is a critical part and a grate installation is highly advised. Sequential opening and repeating of pumping further opening the bridges to allow more and more magma flow to make it minimum 4/4. In the first three piston drops, one magma forge will be running. Took me 3 pumps and mirco-management to get it running honestly
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how it looks post piston drop:'''
*The support has been pulled by the lever, the entire pillar/piston falls down. Upon falling down the area occupied by magma which is replaced by the piston is instantly teleported on top of it, hence the name " Magma Piston " also depicted in the fan-art posted before.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how the bottom design is:'''
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how it looks when flooded with magma and piston drops down:'''
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''Magma Piston types -'''
*magma pistons are of two types specifically :
*Re-usable:-
*one such as ours with only a single z-level dropping into magma. This single z-level can be easily regenerated with water drop on magma at the piston top surface as shown in video
*Non-re-usable:-
*the one which is made for a single time use, use like a magma moat... what happens in this is, the piston literally drops in a massive tank full of magma, multiple z-levels deep. Such as 10 Length x 10 Breadth x 5 Levels, so 3,500 units of magma to be transferred. The upper surface must be prepared well to hold this magma as well to use else it can flood the fort leading massive Fun.
multiple z-level regeneration is not possible so this is a single use massive piston. Does the trick though.

== Cavern between piston ==
The Problem of Cavern occurring in between the piston parts.
Firstly, for a project like this, exploration of caverns is primarily advised. Radar isn't sufficient to pull off the direct exploration. The problem occurs when there is a small cavern and there ain't no perfect spot without cavern occurring in between the piston. So this is the method to solve that problem.

1. Make the top and bottom piston. The bottom piston is held by a support. The top piston is to be dropped but not directly. keep top and bottom ready.

2. Every single thing in between the top and bottom of pistons to be dug clean. Nothing but air between the top and bottom.

3. Now the top side piston column may have un-even bottom and the top-surface of the bottom piston can be un-even. We make it smooth 3x3 on top and bottom so that the mating surfaces are clean and 3x3 with nothing in between.

4. Drop top piston on bottom piston.

5. Now the part where the piston top is there , 1z level below is your magma pumping chamber and obsidian retainer tank is to be on its top and so on...

6. Now during your pumping process, somehow using the retainer and a very well thought out process you can increase the piston length but it is tedious.

7. So TLDR; clean the area between top and bottom surfaces between piston. Make mating faces clean 3x3 / 10 x 10 or whatever. drop topside and make the surfaces connect. Make arrangements and start pumping.

== The Significance of retracting bridge ==
In the room where magma is teleported above the piston when it drops is because the magma doesn't drip below. What is the use of teleporting massive amounts of magma and it legit drips down to where it was pumped from... One more factor is, if water were to fall in alone the pillar and connect to a piece of magma, it will attach the piston with the channel around leading to process disruption. Floor grates, flood gates didn't work in my case. Magma safe retractable bridges work excellently.
== Mega Piston Regnerator ==
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
== Compound Magma Piston ==
Very advanced stuff, basically, you make pump stack in between and place a gigantic piston at the top. If there is a huge gap in between two caverns, the design can be implemented in between them. You can use reducer pistons or something like that as well.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]

Magma piston

2023-12-09T15:54:43Z

Sniper231996: /* Making a Portable Drain */

{{migrated article}}
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'''Magma pistons''' are used to move [[magma]] near the surface. This approach was developed by players as an alternative to [[screw pump#Pump stack|pump stack]]s. Magma pistons are used because they require less time and fewer precious materials to construct than pump stacks. However, magma pistons are a bit more complicated than pump stacks, so it takes more time to understand how to operate and build them.

== The concept ==
The piston method is based on a clever [[exploit|abuse]] of [[cave-in]] [[physics]]. The basic principle involves channeling out an area around a huge stone pillar, hundreds of z-levels tall, which will become the "piston" that drives magma to the top. Rest the piston on a single support, then carve out a tank at its base which will be filled with magma pumped from the magma sea. ('''Beware:''' building the piston directly over the magma sea will '''NOT''' work. The piston must be made entirely of ''natural'' (non-constructed) walls.) Once the tank has been filled, drop the piston by removing its support. Liquids displaced by a cave-in will "teleport" straight up to the nearest available space; here, the nearest available space will be the catchment area you thoughtfully prepared earlier atop the piston.

A simple magma piston works as shown in the following diagram:

'''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
~ = '''Magma'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Basic magma piston design (side view)'''
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|~
|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|S
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When the support is destroyed, the wall sections in the middle will fall down into the magma. The magma will teleport to the top of the piston, as shown in the following diagram:

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
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== Construction ==
A magma piston is composed of 4-5 parts: the catchment area, the magma reservoir, the support, the piston, and the obsidian caster (optional).

=== Catchment area ===
:The '''catchment area''' is located at the top of the piston. After the piston is dropped, the magma will spread out around the catchment area. In a repeating magma piston, some of the magma is used to cast obsidian on top of the piston, in order to reuse it. The volume and size of the catchment area must be carefully calculated to ensure that you won't have too much or too little magma above the piston for casting. Ideally, you want the depth of the magma above the piston to be 2. If the depth is 1, then the magma might evaporate and you won't be able to repair your piston. If the depth is greater than 2, then you're wasting magma if you cast it into obsidian. You can also make the catchment area multiple z-levels deep. If you need a catchment area smaller than possible with bridges or floodgates, you may use a floor-less [[Floodgate#Placement|floodgate]] to prevent the magma entering that square, while keeping the piston free to fall.

=== Magma reservoir ===
:The '''magma reservoir''' is dug out near the magma sea. You can't actually drop the piston directly into the magma sea because the bottom of the magma sea is [[semi-molten rock]], and it will completely destroy any piston dropped into it. The magma reservoir is artificial, so it won't have a floor made of semi-molten rock. This will allow the piston to rest on the floor of your reservoir. The magma reservoir needs three parts: a magma inlet, a magma drain, and an access corridor. After letting magma in, and dropping the piston, you'll want to dig out the bottom of the piston so you can drop it again. To do that, you need to drain any excess magma and let your workers in through the access corridor.

=== Support ===
:The '''support''' is what prevents your piston from dropping until you decide to pull the firing lever. The support can be located either at the bottom of the piston, as shown in the simplified diagram, or at the side of the piston (shown in the following diagram). If the support is at the bottom of the piston, then the support and the mechanism it uses must both be [[magma-safe]]. If it's at the side, then neither need to be magma-safe. Here's an example of a side-mounted support:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
'''X''' = '''Up/Down stairs'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''
= = '''Constructed floor'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Side-mounted support'''
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:In this diagram, you can see the catchment area at the top, and the piston in the middle of the shaft. The support structure is to the left. When the support element collapses, the two constructed floors will become unsupported, and then the piston will collapse. The stairs and hatch to the left of the constructed floors allows for convenient reconstruction of the support.

=== Piston ===
:The '''piston''' is the heart of the scheme. It may be 100-200 z-levels long, so it will take quite a while for your miners to dig it out. You may encounter trouble with caverns. Ideally, you should scout out the caverns and find a clear path straight down. If you can't find such a path, you can fix the problem as follows:

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
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:First, smooth the top and bottom, like so:

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:Now drop the top of the piston on to the floor of the cavern. You can use a cave-in to destroy the stairs quickly, if you remove all up-stairs first.

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=== Obsidian caster ===
:The '''obsidian caster''' is what allows you to rebuild your piston and get more magma. It's an application of techniques drawn from [[obsidian farming]]. The caster just needs to precisely dump water into the catchment area in order to form obsidian. A caster is composed of two parts: a water inlet, and a retracting bridge. Here's a sample design:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
F = '''Closed floodgate'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with water'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with magma'''
~ = '''Magma'''
~ = '''Water'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Obsidian caster'''
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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:When you retract the bridge at the top, the water will fall straight down, and you'll get the following result:

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== Operation ==
The general procedure for operating a repeatable magma piston is as follows:

#Pull your firing lever to collapse the side support, thus dropping the piston into the magma.
#In the magma reservoir, close the inlet and open the drain to empty the magma and allow workers in later.
#Retract the bridge of the obsidian caster to drop water onto magma and rebuild the piston.
#Extend the bridge of the obsidian caster and open the inlet floodgate, to refill your caster's water supply.
#Reconstruct the side support and re-link it to your firing lever.
#Pump/drain any magma you want to use out of the catchment area.
#Allow workers into the magma reservoir when it's safe and empty, and dig out the bottom of the piston.
#Get the workers out of the reservoir and lock the door.
#In the magma reservoir, close the drain and open the inlet to fill it with magma.
#Remember to close the inlet floodgate of your obsidian caster.
#Make sure that your side-support is clear.
#When the magma reservoir is full, use your firing lever to restart the process.

== More information ==
The original discussion of this trick, including how to make the piston reusable, can be found in [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59894.0 this forum thread].
[[ru:Magma piston]]
That being said, I will link this here so that those who attempt this concept in the premium version have access to this guide.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924657714

== Magma Piston ==
So here I will begin the editing of a new chapter in magma pistons after the premium version has been released. The work that Fenwah and others on bay12forums began is still going on.
This page teaches you to:
*Finding the right spot using Dwarven Sonar
*Induce multi floor cave-in (to channel multiple floors very fast)
*Magma Tapping (breaking into the magma sea to get a source of magma for magma reservoir)
*Using portable drain ( For draining magma )
*Using Supports to drop the piston ( massive pillar of rock, 120 blocks high )
*Using water to reload the piston

== Dwarven Sonar ==
Now, how to do it? it is mentioned as follows :
*Go to build -> farming -> farm plot
*Drag and drop a square at any plot that is suitable for farming, but make sure to only select the starter tile and not the placement click.
*Now drag a big square, do not end the placement, max size plot, now scroll to lower tiles
*When you drag the mouse wheel and go below, the places where farm plot is place-able is visible
*Underground in undiscovered regions, where there is farm plot, there is a cavern
*I have shown a gif of how to do it below, it shows what is written here applied, in full.
*We have discovered 3 caverns in the mentioned manner.
*Where ever there is a cavern, it is visible by a different manner in placement pop-up
*Now when you discover the caverns, note the levels where you discover them and dig carefully.
*Cancel the placement option
Here is the big Gif, I have cropped the empty frames in the GIf. The relevant frames are kept in here.
[[File:Dwarven Sonar GIF 2.gif|thumb|The Sonar in action]]

== Detailed Video ==
*5th April 2023:
*Youtube video:
[https://youtu.be/fnVPvjCLXvA?si=zhNOla5LOzKILDuW Magma Piston Video]

== Making a Portable Drain ==

A portable drain is a mine-cart dumping infinite amounts of water in a wall .
A quick TL;DR
*Make a track stop dumping into wall
*Place (Magma-safe material for magma) mine-cart on it with empty conditions/give or take stockpiles/
*Make sure the set-up is made one floor below the region to be drained
*one can place a pump, pumping fluid in to the mine-cart but then that needs automation
1. What you need is:
*A mine-cart -> Material depends on what you intend it for.
*A proper track stop - that - dumps - in to - a - wall, (maximum friction )
2. This is my portable magma drain design:
{| class="wikitable"
|+
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! 1
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| [[File:Portable Drain Layout.PNG|thumb|Portable Drain Layout example]]
|}

* Water -> Any mine-cart
*Magma -> Magma-safe material for cart
*The location of the drain is important.
*I usually channel a room and make it 1-Z level low, so the entire magma goes to the cart and drainsup, leaving the upper floor totally empty when needed.
*This will clear it up.
{| class="wikitable"
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! 2
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| [[File:Drain explained.png|thumb|Portable Drain Logic]]
|}

3. Now we set the IRON drain dump stop:
{| class="wikitable"
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! 3
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| [[File:Drain dump stop.png|thumb|Drain Dump designation]]
|}

4. Now we set the drain dump mine-cart
*Go to set mine-cart hauling routes, add a new route, then look at the index described below:
{| class="wikitable"
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| [[File:Minecart designations.png|thumb|Minecart icons explained]]
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5. Now we do this:
*Set track stop to the Iron track stop we made
*Set an IRON mine-cart to the stop
*delete every single conditions and leave it empty
*We do not want any conditions in it, we do not want it to take or give from any stockpile, nor do we want it to take any specific item. So we leave the below tab empty, except for the names
So I will re-cap this :
1. Add new track stop. 2. Click on iron track stop and name it. 3. Click on add mine-cart and add iron mine-cart. 4. Name the track-stop if you will. 5. Remove all conditions. 6. Let the items to be placed in be empty. 7. That should do it.
6. Now if the dumping into a wall and mine-cart with all empty and normal placement is there then it will work absolutely fine. There is only one way to test, fill it up with water or magma, it will drain the floors above its current floors, it will drain up to only 6/7 of the floor it is placed on. So the reason for its one floor lower placement. It is very important that you don't place the dump on the same floor as your desired draining floor.

== Magma Tapping ==
Magma Tapping has various methods, I will try to depict a very simple method:
*But before hand, there is a section in-game:
*Under Labour Tab
*Go to Stone use
This list gives you the list of magma safe materials, so in my case, I had a lot of dolomite, so I selected ( Allow dolomite to be used in normal stone jobs ). So I could make some magma safe grates and stuff. Another good idea is to use iron for all these magma operations.

So this is an approximate list of materials you'd want ready before going for magma pump
*Iron Pipe Section X 1
*Iron Blocks X 4 or 8
*Enormous Iron Cork-Screw X 1
*Iron Flood Gate X 2
*Iron Grates X 1
*Iron Mechanisms X as per need, because later on, we are going to need these a lot
*Iron Mine-cart
*A Portable Drain ( I will teach this )
*This is what you are looking forward to
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*This is my Pump :
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*This is magma below the Pump, the tile of magma has been channelled.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
Place the pump such that it is one tile ahead of the tile it is sucking from and place the direction of pumping carefully. We place the iron bars so that creatures don't come from underneath the magma into the fortress. The materials are made of iron so that the pump doesn't burn. The Door is placed as a precaution in case things don't work out as intended.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
This is how it is intended to work, don't mind the burning trash, it just shows how non-fire proof materials melt to magma, whereas the pump, operator, grate, door and bars are safe, even the floodgate is safe and sound.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
Now you know how to do it hopefully, good luck with the tapping. Some tips, when you hit warm rock, be exceptionally careful with it. Dig little little upwards and sideways to discover from what z level the warm rocks start, above that layer will be the pump. Also, better to have all materials ready before a magma man pays a visit through the hole you made in the magma sea. Yes, that will be the best I can explain it to you my dear reader.
This is the concept of the pump with things mentioned.

== Cave-in organising and executing ==
This is how a multi-floor cave-in is organised. This is the youtube video describing what is to be explained below now :
* [Youtube link to be posted here]
* This image explains the concept of the video as to how to do it, and all.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
We dig out the piston but the floors... 100 or perhaps 120.. 120 floor channelling? nah dude... This is a better alternative, a 100 or 120 floor digging itself takes an in-game year or so. So what we do is, above all these floors, make a support. on this support is a 5x5 square floor. This 5x5 square has a 3x3 hole in the centre. Attach the support to a lever, when all 100 or 120 floors are dug out, you just make sure all dwarves and creatures are away from these floors or it is instant death. So when you pull the lever, this 5x5 drops exactly on similar 5x5 floors supporting the piston. Every single floor below is destroyed. But the oiston is intact. Why? because it is supported by a support. So all that is left here is the piston alone, clean and beautiful. Now in our case, why is a piston shown? Why is this example describing a piston? Why a piston in a cave in? Because, that video shows the magma piston that is to be used in our guide and that video is a great example of how to clean multiple floors. Yes, even TwistedLogicgaming destroyed an entire island with a floor collapse. So now enough chit chat, lets go to a small summary.

== What have we learnt so far and why? ==
We have learnt
*To find the caverns to suitably dig for the piston.
*To cause a massive cave-in to dig the circumference of the magma piston.
*To carefully pump magma in a designated place.
*And then to drain it very effectively.

== ''''' Magma Piston ''''' ==
Video is right here :
* [Youtube link here]
*Let us get into this, this below image is just for reference: a general understanding of the entire process:
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is the top level : The Obsidian Regenerator'''
*An obsidian Regenerator servers one purpose,to recreate the blocks we dig at the base at the piston. The way this works is, we have a retracting bridge on exactly top of the magma piston head. This retractable bridge will have water on top of it 7/7. This draw bridge is covered on all sides. Water inlet and outlet is floodgate controlled. When we retract, the water 7/7 exactly falls down on the piston head creating 2/7 (minimum magma to be present) magma to obsidian. This completes the regeneration.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is the level where magma forges will be build:'''
*When magma is pumped here, there needs to be micro-management else this magma that is being pumped will freely flow and become cold. If this magma entirely becomes cold, then the obsidian regenerator won't work. This causes the entire project to be fu(k3d because the absence of magma makes the entire repeatability of the project to fail. So a save before first pump is always advised.
*In this image, there are series of channels and slots dug out for the Forge placement. There are several levers controlling <Magma-Safe> draw-bridges below.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is where the magma floods in:'''
*The bridges control the magma flow. Every single draw bridge is retracted before the first pump. The floodgate is a critical part and a grate installation is highly advised. Sequential opening and repeating of pumping further opening the bridges to allow more and more magma flow to make it minimum 4/4. In the first three piston drops, one magma forge will be running. Took me 3 pumps and mirco-management to get it running honestly
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how it looks post piston drop:'''
*The support has been pulled by the lever, the entire pillar/piston falls down. Upon falling down the area occupied by magma which is replaced by the piston is instantly teleported on top of it, hence the name " Magma Piston " also depicted in the fan-art posted before.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how the bottom design is:'''
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how it looks when flooded with magma and piston drops down:'''
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''Magma Piston types -'''
*magma pistons are of two types specifically :
*Re-usable:-
*one such as ours with only a single z-level dropping into magma. This single z-level can be easily regenerated with water drop on magma at the piston top surface as shown in video
*Non-re-usable:-
*the one which is made for a single time use, use like a magma moat... what happens in this is, the piston literally drops in a massive tank full of magma, multiple z-levels deep. Such as 10 Length x 10 Breadth x 5 Levels, so 3,500 units of magma to be transferred. The upper surface must be prepared well to hold this magma as well to use else it can flood the fort leading massive Fun.
multiple z-level regeneration is not possible so this is a single use massive piston. Does the trick though.

== Cavern between piston ==
The Problem of Cavern occurring in between the piston parts.
Firstly, for a project like this, exploration of caverns is primarily advised. Radar isn't sufficient to pull off the direct exploration. The problem occurs when there is a small cavern and there ain't no perfect spot without cavern occurring in between the piston. So this is the method to solve that problem.

1. Make the top and bottom piston. The bottom piston is held by a support. The top piston is to be dropped but not directly. keep top and bottom ready.

2. Every single thing in between the top and bottom of pistons to be dug clean. Nothing but air between the top and bottom.

3. Now the top side piston column may have un-even bottom and the top-surface of the bottom piston can be un-even. We make it smooth 3x3 on top and bottom so that the mating surfaces are clean and 3x3 with nothing in between.

4. Drop top piston on bottom piston.

5. Now the part where the piston top is there , 1z level below is your magma pumping chamber and obsidian retainer tank is to be on its top and so on...

6. Now during your pumping process, somehow using the retainer and a very well thought out process you can increase the piston length but it is tedious.

7. So TLDR; clean the area between top and bottom surfaces between piston. Make mating faces clean 3x3 / 10 x 10 or whatever. drop topside and make the surfaces connect. Make arrangements and start pumping.

== The Significance of retracting bridge ==
In the room where magma is teleported above the piston when it drops is because the magma doesn't drip below. What is the use of teleporting massive amounts of magma and it legit drips down to where it was pumped from... One more factor is, if water were to fall in alone the pillar and connect to a piece of magma, it will attach the piston with the channel around leading to process disruption. Floor grates, flood gates didn't work in my case. Magma safe retractable bridges work excellently.
== Mega Piston Regnerator ==
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
== Compound Magma Piston ==
Very advanced stuff, basically, you make pump stack in between and place a gigantic piston at the top. If there is a huge gap in between two caverns, the design can be implemented in between them. You can use reducer pistons or something like that as well.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]

File:Minecart designations.png

2023-12-09T15:48:37Z

Sniper231996: Minecart icons and meanings

== Summary ==
Minecart icons and meanings
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

File:Drain dump stop.png

2023-12-09T15:48:03Z

Sniper231996: Drain dumping designation

== Summary ==
Drain dumping designation
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

File:Drain explained.png

2023-12-09T15:47:41Z

Sniper231996: Portable drain drawing

== Summary ==
Portable drain drawing
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

File:Portable Drain Layout.PNG

2023-12-09T15:47:11Z

Sniper231996: An example of a portable magma drain using minecarts

== Summary ==
An example of a portable magma drain using minecarts
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

Magma piston

2023-12-09T15:45:08Z

Sniper231996: /* Detailed Video */

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{Projects}}
{{av}}
'''Magma pistons''' are used to move [[magma]] near the surface. This approach was developed by players as an alternative to [[screw pump#Pump stack|pump stack]]s. Magma pistons are used because they require less time and fewer precious materials to construct than pump stacks. However, magma pistons are a bit more complicated than pump stacks, so it takes more time to understand how to operate and build them.

== The concept ==
The piston method is based on a clever [[exploit|abuse]] of [[cave-in]] [[physics]]. The basic principle involves channeling out an area around a huge stone pillar, hundreds of z-levels tall, which will become the "piston" that drives magma to the top. Rest the piston on a single support, then carve out a tank at its base which will be filled with magma pumped from the magma sea. ('''Beware:''' building the piston directly over the magma sea will '''NOT''' work. The piston must be made entirely of ''natural'' (non-constructed) walls.) Once the tank has been filled, drop the piston by removing its support. Liquids displaced by a cave-in will "teleport" straight up to the nearest available space; here, the nearest available space will be the catchment area you thoughtfully prepared earlier atop the piston.

A simple magma piston works as shown in the following diagram:

'''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
~ = '''Magma'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Basic magma piston design (side view)'''
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When the support is destroyed, the wall sections in the middle will fall down into the magma. The magma will teleport to the top of the piston, as shown in the following diagram:

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== Construction ==
A magma piston is composed of 4-5 parts: the catchment area, the magma reservoir, the support, the piston, and the obsidian caster (optional).

=== Catchment area ===
:The '''catchment area''' is located at the top of the piston. After the piston is dropped, the magma will spread out around the catchment area. In a repeating magma piston, some of the magma is used to cast obsidian on top of the piston, in order to reuse it. The volume and size of the catchment area must be carefully calculated to ensure that you won't have too much or too little magma above the piston for casting. Ideally, you want the depth of the magma above the piston to be 2. If the depth is 1, then the magma might evaporate and you won't be able to repair your piston. If the depth is greater than 2, then you're wasting magma if you cast it into obsidian. You can also make the catchment area multiple z-levels deep. If you need a catchment area smaller than possible with bridges or floodgates, you may use a floor-less [[Floodgate#Placement|floodgate]] to prevent the magma entering that square, while keeping the piston free to fall.

=== Magma reservoir ===
:The '''magma reservoir''' is dug out near the magma sea. You can't actually drop the piston directly into the magma sea because the bottom of the magma sea is [[semi-molten rock]], and it will completely destroy any piston dropped into it. The magma reservoir is artificial, so it won't have a floor made of semi-molten rock. This will allow the piston to rest on the floor of your reservoir. The magma reservoir needs three parts: a magma inlet, a magma drain, and an access corridor. After letting magma in, and dropping the piston, you'll want to dig out the bottom of the piston so you can drop it again. To do that, you need to drain any excess magma and let your workers in through the access corridor.

=== Support ===
:The '''support''' is what prevents your piston from dropping until you decide to pull the firing lever. The support can be located either at the bottom of the piston, as shown in the simplified diagram, or at the side of the piston (shown in the following diagram). If the support is at the bottom of the piston, then the support and the mechanism it uses must both be [[magma-safe]]. If it's at the side, then neither need to be magma-safe. Here's an example of a side-mounted support:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
'''X''' = '''Up/Down stairs'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''
= = '''Constructed floor'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Side-mounted support'''
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:In this diagram, you can see the catchment area at the top, and the piston in the middle of the shaft. The support structure is to the left. When the support element collapses, the two constructed floors will become unsupported, and then the piston will collapse. The stairs and hatch to the left of the constructed floors allows for convenient reconstruction of the support.

=== Piston ===
:The '''piston''' is the heart of the scheme. It may be 100-200 z-levels long, so it will take quite a while for your miners to dig it out. You may encounter trouble with caverns. Ideally, you should scout out the caverns and find a clear path straight down. If you can't find such a path, you can fix the problem as follows:

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
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:First, smooth the top and bottom, like so:

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:Now drop the top of the piston on to the floor of the cavern. You can use a cave-in to destroy the stairs quickly, if you remove all up-stairs first.

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=== Obsidian caster ===
:The '''obsidian caster''' is what allows you to rebuild your piston and get more magma. It's an application of techniques drawn from [[obsidian farming]]. The caster just needs to precisely dump water into the catchment area in order to form obsidian. A caster is composed of two parts: a water inlet, and a retracting bridge. Here's a sample design:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
F = '''Closed floodgate'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with water'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with magma'''
~ = '''Magma'''
~ = '''Water'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Obsidian caster'''
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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:When you retract the bridge at the top, the water will fall straight down, and you'll get the following result:

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|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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== Operation ==
The general procedure for operating a repeatable magma piston is as follows:

#Pull your firing lever to collapse the side support, thus dropping the piston into the magma.
#In the magma reservoir, close the inlet and open the drain to empty the magma and allow workers in later.
#Retract the bridge of the obsidian caster to drop water onto magma and rebuild the piston.
#Extend the bridge of the obsidian caster and open the inlet floodgate, to refill your caster's water supply.
#Reconstruct the side support and re-link it to your firing lever.
#Pump/drain any magma you want to use out of the catchment area.
#Allow workers into the magma reservoir when it's safe and empty, and dig out the bottom of the piston.
#Get the workers out of the reservoir and lock the door.
#In the magma reservoir, close the drain and open the inlet to fill it with magma.
#Remember to close the inlet floodgate of your obsidian caster.
#Make sure that your side-support is clear.
#When the magma reservoir is full, use your firing lever to restart the process.

== More information ==
The original discussion of this trick, including how to make the piston reusable, can be found in [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59894.0 this forum thread].
[[ru:Magma piston]]
That being said, I will link this here so that those who attempt this concept in the premium version have access to this guide.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924657714

== Magma Piston ==
So here I will begin the editing of a new chapter in magma pistons after the premium version has been released. The work that Fenwah and others on bay12forums began is still going on.
This page teaches you to:
*Finding the right spot using Dwarven Sonar
*Induce multi floor cave-in (to channel multiple floors very fast)
*Magma Tapping (breaking into the magma sea to get a source of magma for magma reservoir)
*Using portable drain ( For draining magma )
*Using Supports to drop the piston ( massive pillar of rock, 120 blocks high )
*Using water to reload the piston

== Dwarven Sonar ==
Now, how to do it? it is mentioned as follows :
*Go to build -> farming -> farm plot
*Drag and drop a square at any plot that is suitable for farming, but make sure to only select the starter tile and not the placement click.
*Now drag a big square, do not end the placement, max size plot, now scroll to lower tiles
*When you drag the mouse wheel and go below, the places where farm plot is place-able is visible
*Underground in undiscovered regions, where there is farm plot, there is a cavern
*I have shown a gif of how to do it below, it shows what is written here applied, in full.
*We have discovered 3 caverns in the mentioned manner.
*Where ever there is a cavern, it is visible by a different manner in placement pop-up
*Now when you discover the caverns, note the levels where you discover them and dig carefully.
*Cancel the placement option
Here is the big Gif, I have cropped the empty frames in the GIf. The relevant frames are kept in here.
[[File:Dwarven Sonar GIF 2.gif|thumb|The Sonar in action]]

== Detailed Video ==
*5th April 2023:
*Youtube video:
[https://youtu.be/fnVPvjCLXvA?si=zhNOla5LOzKILDuW Magma Piston Video]

== Making a Portable Drain ==

A portable drain is a mine-cart dumping infinite amounts of water in a wall .
A quick TL;DR
*Make a track stop dumping into wall
*Place (Magma-safe material for magma) mine-cart on it with empty conditions/give or take stockpiles/
*Make sure the set-up is made one floor below the region to be drained
*one can place a pump, pumping fluid in to the mine-cart but then that needs automation
1. What you need is:
*A mine-cart -> Material depends on what you intend it for.
*A proper track stop - that - dumps - in to - a - wall, (maximum friction )
2. This is my portable magma drain design:
*[ INSERT IMAGE HERE ]
* Water -> Any mine-cart
*Magma -> Magma-safe material for cart
*The location of the drain is important.
*I usually channel a room and make it 1-Z level low, so the entire magma goes to the cart and drainsup, leaving the upper floor totally empty when needed.
*This will clear it up.
*[ Insert Image here ]
3. Now we set the IRON drain dump stop:
*[ Insert Image here ]
4. Now we set the drain dump mine-cart
*Go to set mine-cart hauling routes, add a new route, then look at the index described below:
*[ Insert Image here ]
5. Now we do this:
*Set track stop to the Iron track stop we made
*Set an IRON mine-cart to the stop
*delete every single conditions and leave it empty
*We do not want any conditions in it, we do not want it to take or give from any stockpile, nor do we want it to take any specific item. So we leave the below tab empty, except for the names
So I will re-cap this :
1. Add new track stop. 2. Click on iron track stop and name it. 3. Click on add mine-cart and add iron mine-cart. 4. Name the track-stop if you will. 5. Remove all conditions. 6. Let the items to be placed in be empty. 7. That should do it.
6. Now if the dumping into a wall and mine-cart with all empty and normal placement is there then it will work absolutely fine. There is only one way to test, fill it up with water or magma, it will drain the floors above its current floors, it will drain up to only 6/7 of the floor it is placed on. So the reason for its one floor lower placement. It is very important that you don't place the dump on the same floor as your desired draining floor.

== Magma Tapping ==
Magma Tapping has various methods, I will try to depict a very simple method:
*But before hand, there is a section in-game:
*Under Labour Tab
*Go to Stone use
This list gives you the list of magma safe materials, so in my case, I had a lot of dolomite, so I selected ( Allow dolomite to be used in normal stone jobs ). So I could make some magma safe grates and stuff. Another good idea is to use iron for all these magma operations.

So this is an approximate list of materials you'd want ready before going for magma pump
*Iron Pipe Section X 1
*Iron Blocks X 4 or 8
*Enormous Iron Cork-Screw X 1
*Iron Flood Gate X 2
*Iron Grates X 1
*Iron Mechanisms X as per need, because later on, we are going to need these a lot
*Iron Mine-cart
*A Portable Drain ( I will teach this )
*This is what you are looking forward to
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*This is my Pump :
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*This is magma below the Pump, the tile of magma has been channelled.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
Place the pump such that it is one tile ahead of the tile it is sucking from and place the direction of pumping carefully. We place the iron bars so that creatures don't come from underneath the magma into the fortress. The materials are made of iron so that the pump doesn't burn. The Door is placed as a precaution in case things don't work out as intended.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
This is how it is intended to work, don't mind the burning trash, it just shows how non-fire proof materials melt to magma, whereas the pump, operator, grate, door and bars are safe, even the floodgate is safe and sound.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
Now you know how to do it hopefully, good luck with the tapping. Some tips, when you hit warm rock, be exceptionally careful with it. Dig little little upwards and sideways to discover from what z level the warm rocks start, above that layer will be the pump. Also, better to have all materials ready before a magma man pays a visit through the hole you made in the magma sea. Yes, that will be the best I can explain it to you my dear reader.
This is the concept of the pump with things mentioned.

== Cave-in organising and executing ==
This is how a multi-floor cave-in is organised. This is the youtube video describing what is to be explained below now :
* [Youtube link to be posted here]
* This image explains the concept of the video as to how to do it, and all.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
We dig out the piston but the floors... 100 or perhaps 120.. 120 floor channelling? nah dude... This is a better alternative, a 100 or 120 floor digging itself takes an in-game year or so. So what we do is, above all these floors, make a support. on this support is a 5x5 square floor. This 5x5 square has a 3x3 hole in the centre. Attach the support to a lever, when all 100 or 120 floors are dug out, you just make sure all dwarves and creatures are away from these floors or it is instant death. So when you pull the lever, this 5x5 drops exactly on similar 5x5 floors supporting the piston. Every single floor below is destroyed. But the oiston is intact. Why? because it is supported by a support. So all that is left here is the piston alone, clean and beautiful. Now in our case, why is a piston shown? Why is this example describing a piston? Why a piston in a cave in? Because, that video shows the magma piston that is to be used in our guide and that video is a great example of how to clean multiple floors. Yes, even TwistedLogicgaming destroyed an entire island with a floor collapse. So now enough chit chat, lets go to a small summary.

== What have we learnt so far and why? ==
We have learnt
*To find the caverns to suitably dig for the piston.
*To cause a massive cave-in to dig the circumference of the magma piston.
*To carefully pump magma in a designated place.
*And then to drain it very effectively.

== ''''' Magma Piston ''''' ==
Video is right here :
* [Youtube link here]
*Let us get into this, this below image is just for reference: a general understanding of the entire process:
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is the top level : The Obsidian Regenerator'''
*An obsidian Regenerator servers one purpose,to recreate the blocks we dig at the base at the piston. The way this works is, we have a retracting bridge on exactly top of the magma piston head. This retractable bridge will have water on top of it 7/7. This draw bridge is covered on all sides. Water inlet and outlet is floodgate controlled. When we retract, the water 7/7 exactly falls down on the piston head creating 2/7 (minimum magma to be present) magma to obsidian. This completes the regeneration.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is the level where magma forges will be build:'''
*When magma is pumped here, there needs to be micro-management else this magma that is being pumped will freely flow and become cold. If this magma entirely becomes cold, then the obsidian regenerator won't work. This causes the entire project to be fu(k3d because the absence of magma makes the entire repeatability of the project to fail. So a save before first pump is always advised.
*In this image, there are series of channels and slots dug out for the Forge placement. There are several levers controlling <Magma-Safe> draw-bridges below.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is where the magma floods in:'''
*The bridges control the magma flow. Every single draw bridge is retracted before the first pump. The floodgate is a critical part and a grate installation is highly advised. Sequential opening and repeating of pumping further opening the bridges to allow more and more magma flow to make it minimum 4/4. In the first three piston drops, one magma forge will be running. Took me 3 pumps and mirco-management to get it running honestly
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how it looks post piston drop:'''
*The support has been pulled by the lever, the entire pillar/piston falls down. Upon falling down the area occupied by magma which is replaced by the piston is instantly teleported on top of it, hence the name " Magma Piston " also depicted in the fan-art posted before.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how the bottom design is:'''
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how it looks when flooded with magma and piston drops down:'''
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''Magma Piston types -'''
*magma pistons are of two types specifically :
*Re-usable:-
*one such as ours with only a single z-level dropping into magma. This single z-level can be easily regenerated with water drop on magma at the piston top surface as shown in video
*Non-re-usable:-
*the one which is made for a single time use, use like a magma moat... what happens in this is, the piston literally drops in a massive tank full of magma, multiple z-levels deep. Such as 10 Length x 10 Breadth x 5 Levels, so 3,500 units of magma to be transferred. The upper surface must be prepared well to hold this magma as well to use else it can flood the fort leading massive Fun.
multiple z-level regeneration is not possible so this is a single use massive piston. Does the trick though.

== Cavern between piston ==
The Problem of Cavern occurring in between the piston parts.
Firstly, for a project like this, exploration of caverns is primarily advised. Radar isn't sufficient to pull off the direct exploration. The problem occurs when there is a small cavern and there ain't no perfect spot without cavern occurring in between the piston. So this is the method to solve that problem.

1. Make the top and bottom piston. The bottom piston is held by a support. The top piston is to be dropped but not directly. keep top and bottom ready.

2. Every single thing in between the top and bottom of pistons to be dug clean. Nothing but air between the top and bottom.

3. Now the top side piston column may have un-even bottom and the top-surface of the bottom piston can be un-even. We make it smooth 3x3 on top and bottom so that the mating surfaces are clean and 3x3 with nothing in between.

4. Drop top piston on bottom piston.

5. Now the part where the piston top is there , 1z level below is your magma pumping chamber and obsidian retainer tank is to be on its top and so on...

6. Now during your pumping process, somehow using the retainer and a very well thought out process you can increase the piston length but it is tedious.

7. So TLDR; clean the area between top and bottom surfaces between piston. Make mating faces clean 3x3 / 10 x 10 or whatever. drop topside and make the surfaces connect. Make arrangements and start pumping.

== The Significance of retracting bridge ==
In the room where magma is teleported above the piston when it drops is because the magma doesn't drip below. What is the use of teleporting massive amounts of magma and it legit drips down to where it was pumped from... One more factor is, if water were to fall in alone the pillar and connect to a piece of magma, it will attach the piston with the channel around leading to process disruption. Floor grates, flood gates didn't work in my case. Magma safe retractable bridges work excellently.
== Mega Piston Regnerator ==
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
== Compound Magma Piston ==
Very advanced stuff, basically, you make pump stack in between and place a gigantic piston at the top. If there is a huge gap in between two caverns, the design can be implemented in between them. You can use reducer pistons or something like that as well.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]

Magma piston

2023-12-09T15:43:14Z

Sniper231996: /* Dwarven Sonar */

{{migrated article}}
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'''Magma pistons''' are used to move [[magma]] near the surface. This approach was developed by players as an alternative to [[screw pump#Pump stack|pump stack]]s. Magma pistons are used because they require less time and fewer precious materials to construct than pump stacks. However, magma pistons are a bit more complicated than pump stacks, so it takes more time to understand how to operate and build them.

== The concept ==
The piston method is based on a clever [[exploit|abuse]] of [[cave-in]] [[physics]]. The basic principle involves channeling out an area around a huge stone pillar, hundreds of z-levels tall, which will become the "piston" that drives magma to the top. Rest the piston on a single support, then carve out a tank at its base which will be filled with magma pumped from the magma sea. ('''Beware:''' building the piston directly over the magma sea will '''NOT''' work. The piston must be made entirely of ''natural'' (non-constructed) walls.) Once the tank has been filled, drop the piston by removing its support. Liquids displaced by a cave-in will "teleport" straight up to the nearest available space; here, the nearest available space will be the catchment area you thoughtfully prepared earlier atop the piston.

A simple magma piston works as shown in the following diagram:

'''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
~ = '''Magma'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Basic magma piston design (side view)'''
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|~
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|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|S
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When the support is destroyed, the wall sections in the middle will fall down into the magma. The magma will teleport to the top of the piston, as shown in the following diagram:

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
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== Construction ==
A magma piston is composed of 4-5 parts: the catchment area, the magma reservoir, the support, the piston, and the obsidian caster (optional).

=== Catchment area ===
:The '''catchment area''' is located at the top of the piston. After the piston is dropped, the magma will spread out around the catchment area. In a repeating magma piston, some of the magma is used to cast obsidian on top of the piston, in order to reuse it. The volume and size of the catchment area must be carefully calculated to ensure that you won't have too much or too little magma above the piston for casting. Ideally, you want the depth of the magma above the piston to be 2. If the depth is 1, then the magma might evaporate and you won't be able to repair your piston. If the depth is greater than 2, then you're wasting magma if you cast it into obsidian. You can also make the catchment area multiple z-levels deep. If you need a catchment area smaller than possible with bridges or floodgates, you may use a floor-less [[Floodgate#Placement|floodgate]] to prevent the magma entering that square, while keeping the piston free to fall.

=== Magma reservoir ===
:The '''magma reservoir''' is dug out near the magma sea. You can't actually drop the piston directly into the magma sea because the bottom of the magma sea is [[semi-molten rock]], and it will completely destroy any piston dropped into it. The magma reservoir is artificial, so it won't have a floor made of semi-molten rock. This will allow the piston to rest on the floor of your reservoir. The magma reservoir needs three parts: a magma inlet, a magma drain, and an access corridor. After letting magma in, and dropping the piston, you'll want to dig out the bottom of the piston so you can drop it again. To do that, you need to drain any excess magma and let your workers in through the access corridor.

=== Support ===
:The '''support''' is what prevents your piston from dropping until you decide to pull the firing lever. The support can be located either at the bottom of the piston, as shown in the simplified diagram, or at the side of the piston (shown in the following diagram). If the support is at the bottom of the piston, then the support and the mechanism it uses must both be [[magma-safe]]. If it's at the side, then neither need to be magma-safe. Here's an example of a side-mounted support:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
'''X''' = '''Up/Down stairs'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''
= = '''Constructed floor'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Side-mounted support'''
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:In this diagram, you can see the catchment area at the top, and the piston in the middle of the shaft. The support structure is to the left. When the support element collapses, the two constructed floors will become unsupported, and then the piston will collapse. The stairs and hatch to the left of the constructed floors allows for convenient reconstruction of the support.

=== Piston ===
:The '''piston''' is the heart of the scheme. It may be 100-200 z-levels long, so it will take quite a while for your miners to dig it out. You may encounter trouble with caverns. Ideally, you should scout out the caverns and find a clear path straight down. If you can't find such a path, you can fix the problem as follows:

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
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:First, smooth the top and bottom, like so:

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:Now drop the top of the piston on to the floor of the cavern. You can use a cave-in to destroy the stairs quickly, if you remove all up-stairs first.

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=== Obsidian caster ===
:The '''obsidian caster''' is what allows you to rebuild your piston and get more magma. It's an application of techniques drawn from [[obsidian farming]]. The caster just needs to precisely dump water into the catchment area in order to form obsidian. A caster is composed of two parts: a water inlet, and a retracting bridge. Here's a sample design:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
F = '''Closed floodgate'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with water'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with magma'''
~ = '''Magma'''
~ = '''Water'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Obsidian caster'''
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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:When you retract the bridge at the top, the water will fall straight down, and you'll get the following result:

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== Operation ==
The general procedure for operating a repeatable magma piston is as follows:

#Pull your firing lever to collapse the side support, thus dropping the piston into the magma.
#In the magma reservoir, close the inlet and open the drain to empty the magma and allow workers in later.
#Retract the bridge of the obsidian caster to drop water onto magma and rebuild the piston.
#Extend the bridge of the obsidian caster and open the inlet floodgate, to refill your caster's water supply.
#Reconstruct the side support and re-link it to your firing lever.
#Pump/drain any magma you want to use out of the catchment area.
#Allow workers into the magma reservoir when it's safe and empty, and dig out the bottom of the piston.
#Get the workers out of the reservoir and lock the door.
#In the magma reservoir, close the drain and open the inlet to fill it with magma.
#Remember to close the inlet floodgate of your obsidian caster.
#Make sure that your side-support is clear.
#When the magma reservoir is full, use your firing lever to restart the process.

== More information ==
The original discussion of this trick, including how to make the piston reusable, can be found in [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59894.0 this forum thread].
[[ru:Magma piston]]
That being said, I will link this here so that those who attempt this concept in the premium version have access to this guide.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924657714

== Magma Piston ==
So here I will begin the editing of a new chapter in magma pistons after the premium version has been released. The work that Fenwah and others on bay12forums began is still going on.
This page teaches you to:
*Finding the right spot using Dwarven Sonar
*Induce multi floor cave-in (to channel multiple floors very fast)
*Magma Tapping (breaking into the magma sea to get a source of magma for magma reservoir)
*Using portable drain ( For draining magma )
*Using Supports to drop the piston ( massive pillar of rock, 120 blocks high )
*Using water to reload the piston

== Dwarven Sonar ==
Now, how to do it? it is mentioned as follows :
*Go to build -> farming -> farm plot
*Drag and drop a square at any plot that is suitable for farming, but make sure to only select the starter tile and not the placement click.
*Now drag a big square, do not end the placement, max size plot, now scroll to lower tiles
*When you drag the mouse wheel and go below, the places where farm plot is place-able is visible
*Underground in undiscovered regions, where there is farm plot, there is a cavern
*I have shown a gif of how to do it below, it shows what is written here applied, in full.
*We have discovered 3 caverns in the mentioned manner.
*Where ever there is a cavern, it is visible by a different manner in placement pop-up
*Now when you discover the caverns, note the levels where you discover them and dig carefully.
*Cancel the placement option
Here is the big Gif, I have cropped the empty frames in the GIf. The relevant frames are kept in here.
[[File:Dwarven Sonar GIF 2.gif|thumb|The Sonar in action]]

== Detailed Video ==
*5th April 2023:
*Youtube video:
[Youtube Video Link Here]

== Making a Portable Drain ==

A portable drain is a mine-cart dumping infinite amounts of water in a wall .
A quick TL;DR
*Make a track stop dumping into wall
*Place (Magma-safe material for magma) mine-cart on it with empty conditions/give or take stockpiles/
*Make sure the set-up is made one floor below the region to be drained
*one can place a pump, pumping fluid in to the mine-cart but then that needs automation
1. What you need is:
*A mine-cart -> Material depends on what you intend it for.
*A proper track stop - that - dumps - in to - a - wall, (maximum friction )
2. This is my portable magma drain design:
*[ INSERT IMAGE HERE ]
* Water -> Any mine-cart
*Magma -> Magma-safe material for cart
*The location of the drain is important.
*I usually channel a room and make it 1-Z level low, so the entire magma goes to the cart and drainsup, leaving the upper floor totally empty when needed.
*This will clear it up.
*[ Insert Image here ]
3. Now we set the IRON drain dump stop:
*[ Insert Image here ]
4. Now we set the drain dump mine-cart
*Go to set mine-cart hauling routes, add a new route, then look at the index described below:
*[ Insert Image here ]
5. Now we do this:
*Set track stop to the Iron track stop we made
*Set an IRON mine-cart to the stop
*delete every single conditions and leave it empty
*We do not want any conditions in it, we do not want it to take or give from any stockpile, nor do we want it to take any specific item. So we leave the below tab empty, except for the names
So I will re-cap this :
1. Add new track stop. 2. Click on iron track stop and name it. 3. Click on add mine-cart and add iron mine-cart. 4. Name the track-stop if you will. 5. Remove all conditions. 6. Let the items to be placed in be empty. 7. That should do it.
6. Now if the dumping into a wall and mine-cart with all empty and normal placement is there then it will work absolutely fine. There is only one way to test, fill it up with water or magma, it will drain the floors above its current floors, it will drain up to only 6/7 of the floor it is placed on. So the reason for its one floor lower placement. It is very important that you don't place the dump on the same floor as your desired draining floor.

== Magma Tapping ==
Magma Tapping has various methods, I will try to depict a very simple method:
*But before hand, there is a section in-game:
*Under Labour Tab
*Go to Stone use
This list gives you the list of magma safe materials, so in my case, I had a lot of dolomite, so I selected ( Allow dolomite to be used in normal stone jobs ). So I could make some magma safe grates and stuff. Another good idea is to use iron for all these magma operations.

So this is an approximate list of materials you'd want ready before going for magma pump
*Iron Pipe Section X 1
*Iron Blocks X 4 or 8
*Enormous Iron Cork-Screw X 1
*Iron Flood Gate X 2
*Iron Grates X 1
*Iron Mechanisms X as per need, because later on, we are going to need these a lot
*Iron Mine-cart
*A Portable Drain ( I will teach this )
*This is what you are looking forward to
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*This is my Pump :
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*This is magma below the Pump, the tile of magma has been channelled.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
Place the pump such that it is one tile ahead of the tile it is sucking from and place the direction of pumping carefully. We place the iron bars so that creatures don't come from underneath the magma into the fortress. The materials are made of iron so that the pump doesn't burn. The Door is placed as a precaution in case things don't work out as intended.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
This is how it is intended to work, don't mind the burning trash, it just shows how non-fire proof materials melt to magma, whereas the pump, operator, grate, door and bars are safe, even the floodgate is safe and sound.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
Now you know how to do it hopefully, good luck with the tapping. Some tips, when you hit warm rock, be exceptionally careful with it. Dig little little upwards and sideways to discover from what z level the warm rocks start, above that layer will be the pump. Also, better to have all materials ready before a magma man pays a visit through the hole you made in the magma sea. Yes, that will be the best I can explain it to you my dear reader.
This is the concept of the pump with things mentioned.

== Cave-in organising and executing ==
This is how a multi-floor cave-in is organised. This is the youtube video describing what is to be explained below now :
* [Youtube link to be posted here]
* This image explains the concept of the video as to how to do it, and all.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
We dig out the piston but the floors... 100 or perhaps 120.. 120 floor channelling? nah dude... This is a better alternative, a 100 or 120 floor digging itself takes an in-game year or so. So what we do is, above all these floors, make a support. on this support is a 5x5 square floor. This 5x5 square has a 3x3 hole in the centre. Attach the support to a lever, when all 100 or 120 floors are dug out, you just make sure all dwarves and creatures are away from these floors or it is instant death. So when you pull the lever, this 5x5 drops exactly on similar 5x5 floors supporting the piston. Every single floor below is destroyed. But the oiston is intact. Why? because it is supported by a support. So all that is left here is the piston alone, clean and beautiful. Now in our case, why is a piston shown? Why is this example describing a piston? Why a piston in a cave in? Because, that video shows the magma piston that is to be used in our guide and that video is a great example of how to clean multiple floors. Yes, even TwistedLogicgaming destroyed an entire island with a floor collapse. So now enough chit chat, lets go to a small summary.

== What have we learnt so far and why? ==
We have learnt
*To find the caverns to suitably dig for the piston.
*To cause a massive cave-in to dig the circumference of the magma piston.
*To carefully pump magma in a designated place.
*And then to drain it very effectively.

== ''''' Magma Piston ''''' ==
Video is right here :
* [Youtube link here]
*Let us get into this, this below image is just for reference: a general understanding of the entire process:
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is the top level : The Obsidian Regenerator'''
*An obsidian Regenerator servers one purpose,to recreate the blocks we dig at the base at the piston. The way this works is, we have a retracting bridge on exactly top of the magma piston head. This retractable bridge will have water on top of it 7/7. This draw bridge is covered on all sides. Water inlet and outlet is floodgate controlled. When we retract, the water 7/7 exactly falls down on the piston head creating 2/7 (minimum magma to be present) magma to obsidian. This completes the regeneration.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is the level where magma forges will be build:'''
*When magma is pumped here, there needs to be micro-management else this magma that is being pumped will freely flow and become cold. If this magma entirely becomes cold, then the obsidian regenerator won't work. This causes the entire project to be fu(k3d because the absence of magma makes the entire repeatability of the project to fail. So a save before first pump is always advised.
*In this image, there are series of channels and slots dug out for the Forge placement. There are several levers controlling <Magma-Safe> draw-bridges below.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is where the magma floods in:'''
*The bridges control the magma flow. Every single draw bridge is retracted before the first pump. The floodgate is a critical part and a grate installation is highly advised. Sequential opening and repeating of pumping further opening the bridges to allow more and more magma flow to make it minimum 4/4. In the first three piston drops, one magma forge will be running. Took me 3 pumps and mirco-management to get it running honestly
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how it looks post piston drop:'''
*The support has been pulled by the lever, the entire pillar/piston falls down. Upon falling down the area occupied by magma which is replaced by the piston is instantly teleported on top of it, hence the name " Magma Piston " also depicted in the fan-art posted before.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how the bottom design is:'''
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how it looks when flooded with magma and piston drops down:'''
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''Magma Piston types -'''
*magma pistons are of two types specifically :
*Re-usable:-
*one such as ours with only a single z-level dropping into magma. This single z-level can be easily regenerated with water drop on magma at the piston top surface as shown in video
*Non-re-usable:-
*the one which is made for a single time use, use like a magma moat... what happens in this is, the piston literally drops in a massive tank full of magma, multiple z-levels deep. Such as 10 Length x 10 Breadth x 5 Levels, so 3,500 units of magma to be transferred. The upper surface must be prepared well to hold this magma as well to use else it can flood the fort leading massive Fun.
multiple z-level regeneration is not possible so this is a single use massive piston. Does the trick though.

== Cavern between piston ==
The Problem of Cavern occurring in between the piston parts.
Firstly, for a project like this, exploration of caverns is primarily advised. Radar isn't sufficient to pull off the direct exploration. The problem occurs when there is a small cavern and there ain't no perfect spot without cavern occurring in between the piston. So this is the method to solve that problem.

1. Make the top and bottom piston. The bottom piston is held by a support. The top piston is to be dropped but not directly. keep top and bottom ready.

2. Every single thing in between the top and bottom of pistons to be dug clean. Nothing but air between the top and bottom.

3. Now the top side piston column may have un-even bottom and the top-surface of the bottom piston can be un-even. We make it smooth 3x3 on top and bottom so that the mating surfaces are clean and 3x3 with nothing in between.

4. Drop top piston on bottom piston.

5. Now the part where the piston top is there , 1z level below is your magma pumping chamber and obsidian retainer tank is to be on its top and so on...

6. Now during your pumping process, somehow using the retainer and a very well thought out process you can increase the piston length but it is tedious.

7. So TLDR; clean the area between top and bottom surfaces between piston. Make mating faces clean 3x3 / 10 x 10 or whatever. drop topside and make the surfaces connect. Make arrangements and start pumping.

== The Significance of retracting bridge ==
In the room where magma is teleported above the piston when it drops is because the magma doesn't drip below. What is the use of teleporting massive amounts of magma and it legit drips down to where it was pumped from... One more factor is, if water were to fall in alone the pillar and connect to a piece of magma, it will attach the piston with the channel around leading to process disruption. Floor grates, flood gates didn't work in my case. Magma safe retractable bridges work excellently.
== Mega Piston Regnerator ==
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
== Compound Magma Piston ==
Very advanced stuff, basically, you make pump stack in between and place a gigantic piston at the top. If there is a huge gap in between two caverns, the design can be implemented in between them. You can use reducer pistons or something like that as well.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]

File:Dwarven Sonar GIF 2.gif

2023-12-09T15:36:53Z

Sniper231996: Actual example of Dwarven Sonar in GIF

== Summary ==
Actual example of Dwarven Sonar in GIF
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

File:Dwarven Sonar GIF.gif

2023-12-09T15:36:13Z

Sniper231996: The Dwarven Sonar GIF File.

== Summary ==
The Dwarven Sonar GIF File.

Magma piston

2023-12-09T15:28:17Z

Sniper231996:

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{Projects}}
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'''Magma pistons''' are used to move [[magma]] near the surface. This approach was developed by players as an alternative to [[screw pump#Pump stack|pump stack]]s. Magma pistons are used because they require less time and fewer precious materials to construct than pump stacks. However, magma pistons are a bit more complicated than pump stacks, so it takes more time to understand how to operate and build them.

== The concept ==
The piston method is based on a clever [[exploit|abuse]] of [[cave-in]] [[physics]]. The basic principle involves channeling out an area around a huge stone pillar, hundreds of z-levels tall, which will become the "piston" that drives magma to the top. Rest the piston on a single support, then carve out a tank at its base which will be filled with magma pumped from the magma sea. ('''Beware:''' building the piston directly over the magma sea will '''NOT''' work. The piston must be made entirely of ''natural'' (non-constructed) walls.) Once the tank has been filled, drop the piston by removing its support. Liquids displaced by a cave-in will "teleport" straight up to the nearest available space; here, the nearest available space will be the catchment area you thoughtfully prepared earlier atop the piston.

A simple magma piston works as shown in the following diagram:

'''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
~ = '''Magma'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Basic magma piston design (side view)'''
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When the support is destroyed, the wall sections in the middle will fall down into the magma. The magma will teleport to the top of the piston, as shown in the following diagram:

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== Construction ==
A magma piston is composed of 4-5 parts: the catchment area, the magma reservoir, the support, the piston, and the obsidian caster (optional).

=== Catchment area ===
:The '''catchment area''' is located at the top of the piston. After the piston is dropped, the magma will spread out around the catchment area. In a repeating magma piston, some of the magma is used to cast obsidian on top of the piston, in order to reuse it. The volume and size of the catchment area must be carefully calculated to ensure that you won't have too much or too little magma above the piston for casting. Ideally, you want the depth of the magma above the piston to be 2. If the depth is 1, then the magma might evaporate and you won't be able to repair your piston. If the depth is greater than 2, then you're wasting magma if you cast it into obsidian. You can also make the catchment area multiple z-levels deep. If you need a catchment area smaller than possible with bridges or floodgates, you may use a floor-less [[Floodgate#Placement|floodgate]] to prevent the magma entering that square, while keeping the piston free to fall.

=== Magma reservoir ===
:The '''magma reservoir''' is dug out near the magma sea. You can't actually drop the piston directly into the magma sea because the bottom of the magma sea is [[semi-molten rock]], and it will completely destroy any piston dropped into it. The magma reservoir is artificial, so it won't have a floor made of semi-molten rock. This will allow the piston to rest on the floor of your reservoir. The magma reservoir needs three parts: a magma inlet, a magma drain, and an access corridor. After letting magma in, and dropping the piston, you'll want to dig out the bottom of the piston so you can drop it again. To do that, you need to drain any excess magma and let your workers in through the access corridor.

=== Support ===
:The '''support''' is what prevents your piston from dropping until you decide to pull the firing lever. The support can be located either at the bottom of the piston, as shown in the simplified diagram, or at the side of the piston (shown in the following diagram). If the support is at the bottom of the piston, then the support and the mechanism it uses must both be [[magma-safe]]. If it's at the side, then neither need to be magma-safe. Here's an example of a side-mounted support:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
'''X''' = '''Up/Down stairs'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''
= = '''Constructed floor'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Side-mounted support'''
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:In this diagram, you can see the catchment area at the top, and the piston in the middle of the shaft. The support structure is to the left. When the support element collapses, the two constructed floors will become unsupported, and then the piston will collapse. The stairs and hatch to the left of the constructed floors allows for convenient reconstruction of the support.

=== Piston ===
:The '''piston''' is the heart of the scheme. It may be 100-200 z-levels long, so it will take quite a while for your miners to dig it out. You may encounter trouble with caverns. Ideally, you should scout out the caverns and find a clear path straight down. If you can't find such a path, you can fix the problem as follows:

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:First, smooth the top and bottom, like so:

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:Now drop the top of the piston on to the floor of the cavern. You can use a cave-in to destroy the stairs quickly, if you remove all up-stairs first.

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=== Obsidian caster ===
:The '''obsidian caster''' is what allows you to rebuild your piston and get more magma. It's an application of techniques drawn from [[obsidian farming]]. The caster just needs to precisely dump water into the catchment area in order to form obsidian. A caster is composed of two parts: a water inlet, and a retracting bridge. Here's a sample design:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
F = '''Closed floodgate'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with water'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with magma'''
~ = '''Magma'''
~ = '''Water'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Obsidian caster'''
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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:When you retract the bridge at the top, the water will fall straight down, and you'll get the following result:

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== Operation ==
The general procedure for operating a repeatable magma piston is as follows:

#Pull your firing lever to collapse the side support, thus dropping the piston into the magma.
#In the magma reservoir, close the inlet and open the drain to empty the magma and allow workers in later.
#Retract the bridge of the obsidian caster to drop water onto magma and rebuild the piston.
#Extend the bridge of the obsidian caster and open the inlet floodgate, to refill your caster's water supply.
#Reconstruct the side support and re-link it to your firing lever.
#Pump/drain any magma you want to use out of the catchment area.
#Allow workers into the magma reservoir when it's safe and empty, and dig out the bottom of the piston.
#Get the workers out of the reservoir and lock the door.
#In the magma reservoir, close the drain and open the inlet to fill it with magma.
#Remember to close the inlet floodgate of your obsidian caster.
#Make sure that your side-support is clear.
#When the magma reservoir is full, use your firing lever to restart the process.

== More information ==
The original discussion of this trick, including how to make the piston reusable, can be found in [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59894.0 this forum thread].
[[ru:Magma piston]]
That being said, I will link this here so that those who attempt this concept in the premium version have access to this guide.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924657714

== Magma Piston ==
So here I will begin the editing of a new chapter in magma pistons after the premium version has been released. The work that Fenwah and others on bay12forums began is still going on.
This page teaches you to:
*Finding the right spot using Dwarven Sonar
*Induce multi floor cave-in (to channel multiple floors very fast)
*Magma Tapping (breaking into the magma sea to get a source of magma for magma reservoir)
*Using portable drain ( For draining magma )
*Using Supports to drop the piston ( massive pillar of rock, 120 blocks high )
*Using water to reload the piston

== Dwarven Sonar ==
Now, how to do it? it is mentioned as follows :
*Go to build -> farming -> farm plot
*Drag and drop a square at any plot that is suitable for farming, but make sure to only select the starter tile and not the placement click.
*Now drag a big square, do not end the placement, max size plot, now scroll to lower tiles
*When you drag the mouse wheel and go below, the places where farm plot is place-able is visible
*Underground in undiscovered regions, where there is farm plot, there is a cavern
*I have shown a gif of how to do it below, it shows what is written here applied, in full.
*We have discovered 3 caverns in the mentioned manner.
*Where ever there is a cavern, it is visible by a different manner in placement pop-up
*Now when you discover the caverns, note the levels where you discover them and dig carefully.
*Cancel the placement option
Here is the big Gif, I have cropped the empty frames in the GIf. The relevant frames are kept in here.

[INSERT FILE HERE]

== Detailed Video ==
*5th April 2023:
*Youtube video:
[Youtube Video Link Here]

== Making a Portable Drain ==

A portable drain is a mine-cart dumping infinite amounts of water in a wall .
A quick TL;DR
*Make a track stop dumping into wall
*Place (Magma-safe material for magma) mine-cart on it with empty conditions/give or take stockpiles/
*Make sure the set-up is made one floor below the region to be drained
*one can place a pump, pumping fluid in to the mine-cart but then that needs automation
1. What you need is:
*A mine-cart -> Material depends on what you intend it for.
*A proper track stop - that - dumps - in to - a - wall, (maximum friction )
2. This is my portable magma drain design:
*[ INSERT IMAGE HERE ]
* Water -> Any mine-cart
*Magma -> Magma-safe material for cart
*The location of the drain is important.
*I usually channel a room and make it 1-Z level low, so the entire magma goes to the cart and drainsup, leaving the upper floor totally empty when needed.
*This will clear it up.
*[ Insert Image here ]
3. Now we set the IRON drain dump stop:
*[ Insert Image here ]
4. Now we set the drain dump mine-cart
*Go to set mine-cart hauling routes, add a new route, then look at the index described below:
*[ Insert Image here ]
5. Now we do this:
*Set track stop to the Iron track stop we made
*Set an IRON mine-cart to the stop
*delete every single conditions and leave it empty
*We do not want any conditions in it, we do not want it to take or give from any stockpile, nor do we want it to take any specific item. So we leave the below tab empty, except for the names
So I will re-cap this :
1. Add new track stop. 2. Click on iron track stop and name it. 3. Click on add mine-cart and add iron mine-cart. 4. Name the track-stop if you will. 5. Remove all conditions. 6. Let the items to be placed in be empty. 7. That should do it.
6. Now if the dumping into a wall and mine-cart with all empty and normal placement is there then it will work absolutely fine. There is only one way to test, fill it up with water or magma, it will drain the floors above its current floors, it will drain up to only 6/7 of the floor it is placed on. So the reason for its one floor lower placement. It is very important that you don't place the dump on the same floor as your desired draining floor.

== Magma Tapping ==
Magma Tapping has various methods, I will try to depict a very simple method:
*But before hand, there is a section in-game:
*Under Labour Tab
*Go to Stone use
This list gives you the list of magma safe materials, so in my case, I had a lot of dolomite, so I selected ( Allow dolomite to be used in normal stone jobs ). So I could make some magma safe grates and stuff. Another good idea is to use iron for all these magma operations.

So this is an approximate list of materials you'd want ready before going for magma pump
*Iron Pipe Section X 1
*Iron Blocks X 4 or 8
*Enormous Iron Cork-Screw X 1
*Iron Flood Gate X 2
*Iron Grates X 1
*Iron Mechanisms X as per need, because later on, we are going to need these a lot
*Iron Mine-cart
*A Portable Drain ( I will teach this )
*This is what you are looking forward to
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*This is my Pump :
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*This is magma below the Pump, the tile of magma has been channelled.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
Place the pump such that it is one tile ahead of the tile it is sucking from and place the direction of pumping carefully. We place the iron bars so that creatures don't come from underneath the magma into the fortress. The materials are made of iron so that the pump doesn't burn. The Door is placed as a precaution in case things don't work out as intended.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
This is how it is intended to work, don't mind the burning trash, it just shows how non-fire proof materials melt to magma, whereas the pump, operator, grate, door and bars are safe, even the floodgate is safe and sound.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
Now you know how to do it hopefully, good luck with the tapping. Some tips, when you hit warm rock, be exceptionally careful with it. Dig little little upwards and sideways to discover from what z level the warm rocks start, above that layer will be the pump. Also, better to have all materials ready before a magma man pays a visit through the hole you made in the magma sea. Yes, that will be the best I can explain it to you my dear reader.
This is the concept of the pump with things mentioned.

== Cave-in organising and executing ==
This is how a multi-floor cave-in is organised. This is the youtube video describing what is to be explained below now :
* [Youtube link to be posted here]
* This image explains the concept of the video as to how to do it, and all.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
We dig out the piston but the floors... 100 or perhaps 120.. 120 floor channelling? nah dude... This is a better alternative, a 100 or 120 floor digging itself takes an in-game year or so. So what we do is, above all these floors, make a support. on this support is a 5x5 square floor. This 5x5 square has a 3x3 hole in the centre. Attach the support to a lever, when all 100 or 120 floors are dug out, you just make sure all dwarves and creatures are away from these floors or it is instant death. So when you pull the lever, this 5x5 drops exactly on similar 5x5 floors supporting the piston. Every single floor below is destroyed. But the oiston is intact. Why? because it is supported by a support. So all that is left here is the piston alone, clean and beautiful. Now in our case, why is a piston shown? Why is this example describing a piston? Why a piston in a cave in? Because, that video shows the magma piston that is to be used in our guide and that video is a great example of how to clean multiple floors. Yes, even TwistedLogicgaming destroyed an entire island with a floor collapse. So now enough chit chat, lets go to a small summary.

== What have we learnt so far and why? ==
We have learnt
*To find the caverns to suitably dig for the piston.
*To cause a massive cave-in to dig the circumference of the magma piston.
*To carefully pump magma in a designated place.
*And then to drain it very effectively.

== ''''' Magma Piston ''''' ==
Video is right here :
* [Youtube link here]
*Let us get into this, this below image is just for reference: a general understanding of the entire process:
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is the top level : The Obsidian Regenerator'''
*An obsidian Regenerator servers one purpose,to recreate the blocks we dig at the base at the piston. The way this works is, we have a retracting bridge on exactly top of the magma piston head. This retractable bridge will have water on top of it 7/7. This draw bridge is covered on all sides. Water inlet and outlet is floodgate controlled. When we retract, the water 7/7 exactly falls down on the piston head creating 2/7 (minimum magma to be present) magma to obsidian. This completes the regeneration.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is the level where magma forges will be build:'''
*When magma is pumped here, there needs to be micro-management else this magma that is being pumped will freely flow and become cold. If this magma entirely becomes cold, then the obsidian regenerator won't work. This causes the entire project to be fu(k3d because the absence of magma makes the entire repeatability of the project to fail. So a save before first pump is always advised.
*In this image, there are series of channels and slots dug out for the Forge placement. There are several levers controlling <Magma-Safe> draw-bridges below.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is where the magma floods in:'''
*The bridges control the magma flow. Every single draw bridge is retracted before the first pump. The floodgate is a critical part and a grate installation is highly advised. Sequential opening and repeating of pumping further opening the bridges to allow more and more magma flow to make it minimum 4/4. In the first three piston drops, one magma forge will be running. Took me 3 pumps and mirco-management to get it running honestly
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how it looks post piston drop:'''
*The support has been pulled by the lever, the entire pillar/piston falls down. Upon falling down the area occupied by magma which is replaced by the piston is instantly teleported on top of it, hence the name " Magma Piston " also depicted in the fan-art posted before.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how the bottom design is:'''
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''This is how it looks when flooded with magma and piston drops down:'''
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*'''Magma Piston types -'''
*magma pistons are of two types specifically :
*Re-usable:-
*one such as ours with only a single z-level dropping into magma. This single z-level can be easily regenerated with water drop on magma at the piston top surface as shown in video
*Non-re-usable:-
*the one which is made for a single time use, use like a magma moat... what happens in this is, the piston literally drops in a massive tank full of magma, multiple z-levels deep. Such as 10 Length x 10 Breadth x 5 Levels, so 3,500 units of magma to be transferred. The upper surface must be prepared well to hold this magma as well to use else it can flood the fort leading massive Fun.
multiple z-level regeneration is not possible so this is a single use massive piston. Does the trick though.

== Cavern between piston ==
The Problem of Cavern occurring in between the piston parts.
Firstly, for a project like this, exploration of caverns is primarily advised. Radar isn't sufficient to pull off the direct exploration. The problem occurs when there is a small cavern and there ain't no perfect spot without cavern occurring in between the piston. So this is the method to solve that problem.

1. Make the top and bottom piston. The bottom piston is held by a support. The top piston is to be dropped but not directly. keep top and bottom ready.

2. Every single thing in between the top and bottom of pistons to be dug clean. Nothing but air between the top and bottom.

3. Now the top side piston column may have un-even bottom and the top-surface of the bottom piston can be un-even. We make it smooth 3x3 on top and bottom so that the mating surfaces are clean and 3x3 with nothing in between.

4. Drop top piston on bottom piston.

5. Now the part where the piston top is there , 1z level below is your magma pumping chamber and obsidian retainer tank is to be on its top and so on...

6. Now during your pumping process, somehow using the retainer and a very well thought out process you can increase the piston length but it is tedious.

7. So TLDR; clean the area between top and bottom surfaces between piston. Make mating faces clean 3x3 / 10 x 10 or whatever. drop topside and make the surfaces connect. Make arrangements and start pumping.

== The Significance of retracting bridge ==
In the room where magma is teleported above the piston when it drops is because the magma doesn't drip below. What is the use of teleporting massive amounts of magma and it legit drips down to where it was pumped from... One more factor is, if water were to fall in alone the pillar and connect to a piece of magma, it will attach the piston with the channel around leading to process disruption. Floor grates, flood gates didn't work in my case. Magma safe retractable bridges work excellently.
== Mega Piston Regnerator ==
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]
== Compound Magma Piston ==
Very advanced stuff, basically, you make pump stack in between and place a gigantic piston at the top. If there is a huge gap in between two caverns, the design can be implemented in between them. You can use reducer pistons or something like that as well.
*[IMAGE TO PUT HERE]

Magma piston

2023-12-09T14:45:12Z

Sniper231996: Adding information at the end of the current magma piston page.

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'''Magma pistons''' are used to move [[magma]] near the surface. This approach was developed by players as an alternative to [[screw pump#Pump stack|pump stack]]s. Magma pistons are used because they require less time and fewer precious materials to construct than pump stacks. However, magma pistons are a bit more complicated than pump stacks, so it takes more time to understand how to operate and build them.

== The concept ==
The piston method is based on a clever [[exploit|abuse]] of [[cave-in]] [[physics]]. The basic principle involves channeling out an area around a huge stone pillar, hundreds of z-levels tall, which will become the "piston" that drives magma to the top. Rest the piston on a single support, then carve out a tank at its base which will be filled with magma pumped from the magma sea. ('''Beware:''' building the piston directly over the magma sea will '''NOT''' work. The piston must be made entirely of ''natural'' (non-constructed) walls.) Once the tank has been filled, drop the piston by removing its support. Liquids displaced by a cave-in will "teleport" straight up to the nearest available space; here, the nearest available space will be the catchment area you thoughtfully prepared earlier atop the piston.

A simple magma piston works as shown in the following diagram:

'''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
~ = '''Magma'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Basic magma piston design (side view)'''
|- style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold; font-size: 135%"
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|style="color: #F00; padding: 0"|~
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|style="color: #777; padding: 0"|S
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When the support is destroyed, the wall sections in the middle will fall down into the magma. The magma will teleport to the top of the piston, as shown in the following diagram:

{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
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== Construction ==
A magma piston is composed of 4-5 parts: the catchment area, the magma reservoir, the support, the piston, and the obsidian caster (optional).

=== Catchment area ===
:The '''catchment area''' is located at the top of the piston. After the piston is dropped, the magma will spread out around the catchment area. In a repeating magma piston, some of the magma is used to cast obsidian on top of the piston, in order to reuse it. The volume and size of the catchment area must be carefully calculated to ensure that you won't have too much or too little magma above the piston for casting. Ideally, you want the depth of the magma above the piston to be 2. If the depth is 1, then the magma might evaporate and you won't be able to repair your piston. If the depth is greater than 2, then you're wasting magma if you cast it into obsidian. You can also make the catchment area multiple z-levels deep. If you need a catchment area smaller than possible with bridges or floodgates, you may use a floor-less [[Floodgate#Placement|floodgate]] to prevent the magma entering that square, while keeping the piston free to fall.

=== Magma reservoir ===
:The '''magma reservoir''' is dug out near the magma sea. You can't actually drop the piston directly into the magma sea because the bottom of the magma sea is [[semi-molten rock]], and it will completely destroy any piston dropped into it. The magma reservoir is artificial, so it won't have a floor made of semi-molten rock. This will allow the piston to rest on the floor of your reservoir. The magma reservoir needs three parts: a magma inlet, a magma drain, and an access corridor. After letting magma in, and dropping the piston, you'll want to dig out the bottom of the piston so you can drop it again. To do that, you need to drain any excess magma and let your workers in through the access corridor.

=== Support ===
:The '''support''' is what prevents your piston from dropping until you decide to pull the firing lever. The support can be located either at the bottom of the piston, as shown in the simplified diagram, or at the side of the piston (shown in the following diagram). If the support is at the bottom of the piston, then the support and the mechanism it uses must both be [[magma-safe]]. If it's at the side, then neither need to be magma-safe. Here's an example of a side-mounted support:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
'''X''' = '''Up/Down stairs'''
S = '''Support'''
_ = '''Floor hatch or bridge (your choice)'''
= = '''Constructed floor'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Side-mounted support'''
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:In this diagram, you can see the catchment area at the top, and the piston in the middle of the shaft. The support structure is to the left. When the support element collapses, the two constructed floors will become unsupported, and then the piston will collapse. The stairs and hatch to the left of the constructed floors allows for convenient reconstruction of the support.

=== Piston ===
:The '''piston''' is the heart of the scheme. It may be 100-200 z-levels long, so it will take quite a while for your miners to dig it out. You may encounter trouble with caverns. Ideally, you should scout out the caverns and find a clear path straight down. If you can't find such a path, you can fix the problem as follows:

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
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:First, smooth the top and bottom, like so:

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:Now drop the top of the piston on to the floor of the cavern. You can use a cave-in to destroy the stairs quickly, if you remove all up-stairs first.

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=== Obsidian caster ===
:The '''obsidian caster''' is what allows you to rebuild your piston and get more magma. It's an application of techniques drawn from [[obsidian farming]]. The caster just needs to precisely dump water into the catchment area in order to form obsidian. A caster is composed of two parts: a water inlet, and a retracting bridge. Here's a sample design:

: '''Key:'''

'''#''' = '''Wall'''
'''P''' = '''Piston'''
F = '''Closed floodgate'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with water'''
± = '''Retracting bridge with magma'''
~ = '''Magma'''
~ = '''Water'''

:{|style="border: 1px solid #0b0; background: #dfd"
|+'''Obsidian caster'''
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:When you retract the bridge at the top, the water will fall straight down, and you'll get the following result:

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== Operation ==
The general procedure for operating a repeatable magma piston is as follows:

#Pull your firing lever to collapse the side support, thus dropping the piston into the magma.
#In the magma reservoir, close the inlet and open the drain to empty the magma and allow workers in later.
#Retract the bridge of the obsidian caster to drop water onto magma and rebuild the piston.
#Extend the bridge of the obsidian caster and open the inlet floodgate, to refill your caster's water supply.
#Reconstruct the side support and re-link it to your firing lever.
#Pump/drain any magma you want to use out of the catchment area.
#Allow workers into the magma reservoir when it's safe and empty, and dig out the bottom of the piston.
#Get the workers out of the reservoir and lock the door.
#In the magma reservoir, close the drain and open the inlet to fill it with magma.
#Remember to close the inlet floodgate of your obsidian caster.
#Make sure that your side-support is clear.
#When the magma reservoir is full, use your firing lever to restart the process.

== More information ==
The original discussion of this trick, including how to make the piston reusable, can be found in [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59894.0 this forum thread].
[[ru:Magma piston]]
That being said, I will link this here so that those who attempt this concept in the premium version have access to this guide.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924657714

== Magma Piston ==
So here I will begin the editing of a new chapter in magma pistons after the premium version has been released. The work that Fenwah and others on bay12forums began is still going on.
This page teaches you to:
*Finding the right spot using Dwarven Sonar
*Induce multi floor cave-in (to channel multiple floors very fast)
*Magma Tapping (breaking into the magma sea to get a source of magma for magma reservoir)
*Using portable drain ( For draining magma )
*Using Supports to drop the piston ( massive pillar of rock, 120 blocks high )
*Using water to reload the piston

== Dwarven Sonar ==
Now, how to do it? it is mentioned as follows :
*Go to build -> farming -> farm plot
*Drag and drop a square at any plot that is suitable for farming, but make sure to only select the starter tile and not the placement click.
*Now drag a big square, do not end the placement, max size plot, now scroll to lower tiles
*When you drag the mouse wheel and go below, the places where farm plot is place-able is visible
*Underground in undiscovered regions, where there is farm plot, there is a cavern
*I have shown a gif of how to do it below, it shows what is written here applied, in full.
*We have discovered 3 caverns in the mentioned manner.
*Where ever there is a cavern, it is visible by a different manner in placement pop-up
*Now when you discover the caverns, note the levels where you discover them and dig carefully.
*Cancel the placement option
Here is the big Gif, I have cropped the empty frames in the Gif. The relevant frames are kept in here.

[INSERT FILE HERE]

== Detailed Video ==
*5th April 2023:
*Youtube video:
[Youtube Video Link Here]

== Making a Portable Drain ==

A portable drain is a mine-cart dumping infinite amounts of water in a wall .
A quick TL;DR
*Make a track stop dumping into wall
*Place (Magma-safe material for magma) mine-cart on it with empty conditions/give or take stockpiles/
*Make sure the set-up is made one floor below the region to be drained
*one can place a pump, pumping fluid in to the mine-cart but then that needs automation
1. What you need is:
*A mine-cart -> Material depends on what you intend it for.
*A proper track stop - that - dumps - in to - a - wall, (maximum friction )
2. This is my portable magma drain design:
*[ INSERT IMAGE HERE ]
* Water -> Any mine-cart
*Magma -> Magma-safe material for cart
*The location of the drain is important.
*I usually channel a room and make it 1-Z level low, so the entire magma goes to the cart and drainsup, leaving the upper floor totally empty when needed.
*This will clear it up.
*[ Insert Image here ]
3. Now we set the IRON drain dump stop:
*[ Insert Image here ]
4. Now we set the drain dump mine-cart
*Go to set mine-cart hauling routes, add a new route, then look at the index described below:
*[ Insert Image here ]
5. Now we do this:
*Set track stop to the Iron track stop we made
*Set an IRON mine-cart to the stop
*delete every single conditions and leave it empty
*We do not want any conditions in it, we do not want it to take or give from any stockpile, nor do we want it to take any specific item. So we leave the below tab empty, except for the names
So I will re-cap this :
1. Add new track stop. 2. Click on iron track stop and name it. 3. Click on add mine-cart and add iron mine-cart. 4. Name the track-stop if you will. 5. Remove all conditions. 6. Let the items to be placed in be empty. 7. That should do it.
6. Now if the dumping into a wall and mine-cart with all empty and normal placement is there then it will work absolutely fine. There is only one way to test, fill it up with water or magma, it will drain the floors above its current floors, it will drain up to only 6/7 of the floor it is placed on. So the reason for its one floor lower placement. It is very important that you don't place the dump on the same floor as your desired draining floor.

== Magma Tapping ==

User:Sniper231996

2023-12-05T09:16:39Z

Sniper231996: /* List of Guides */

== Welcome ==
I am Sniper231996 a.k.a. Sniper(+).

These are some guide's I have made with help from many others. Old guide's reposted, updated, some like the magma piston and all I myself wrote after digging up old implementations from wiki, bay12forums and personally talking with old players and the one's who made the first posts of their ! SCIENCE ! and experiments. Hope this list helps you in any way possible. Thank you for visiting.

== List of Guides ==
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3101487752 Vermin Catcher Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3096311435 Orchard Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3021111160 Ocean/Magma Sea Tapping Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3016032201 River Blocker/Stopper Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3015195492 Moat Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014678116 Silk Farm Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3012304711 Forgotten Beast Capturing Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2975716340 Egg Farm Guide]
{| class="wikitable"
|+ [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924657714 Magma Piston Guide]
|-
! [[File:Post activation top.PNG|thumb|Magma Piston]]
|-
|}
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924311982 Aquarium Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2911372702 Old Custom Stockpile Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2905020327 Heavy Aquifer Crossing and uses Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2901220282 Old Custom Item Crafting example]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2899235399 Old Simple Aquifer Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2898990384 Old Military and Ranger Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2898988659 Old Locations guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2898983810 Old Textile Industry and Soap Making Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2898981815 Old New player basic and trading Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2898976056 Old Farming Guide]

File:Post activation top.PNG

2023-12-05T09:11:23Z

Sniper231996: The top of a magma piston after firing it for the first time. The massive pillar of stone dipping at the bottom and the same amount teleporting at the top... the giant splash of magma... almost poetic to witness at the first time.

== Summary ==
The top of a magma piston after firing it for the first time. The massive pillar of stone dipping at the bottom and the same amount teleporting at the top... the giant splash of magma... almost poetic to witness at the first time.
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

User:Sniper231996

2023-12-05T09:09:51Z

Sniper231996: Created page with "== Welcome == I am Sniper231996 a.k.a. Sniper(+). These are some guide's I have made with help from many others. Old guide's reposted, updated, some like the magma piston an..."

== Welcome ==
I am Sniper231996 a.k.a. Sniper(+).

These are some guide's I have made with help from many others. Old guide's reposted, updated, some like the magma piston and all I myself wrote after digging up old implementations from wiki, bay12forums and personally talking with old players and the one's who made the first posts of their ! SCIENCE ! and experiments. Hope this list helps you in any way possible. Thank you for visiting.

== List of Guides ==
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3101487752 Vermin Catcher Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3096311435 Orchard Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3021111160 Ocean/Magma Sea Tapping Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3016032201 River Blocker/Stopper Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3015195492 Moat Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014678116 Silk Farm Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3012304711 Forgotten Beast Capturing Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2975716340 Egg Farm Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924657714 Magma Piston Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924311982 Aquarium Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2911372702 Old Custom Stockpile Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2905020327 Heavy Aquifer Crossing and uses Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2901220282 Old Custom Item Crafting example]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2899235399 Old Simple Aquifer Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2898990384 Old Military and Ranger Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2898988659 Old Locations guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2898983810 Old Textile Industry and Soap Making Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2898981815 Old New player basic and trading Guide]
*[https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2898976056 Old Farming Guide]

Magma piston

2023-12-05T08:47:45Z

Sniper231996: /* Obsidian caster */

Magma piston

2023-12-05T08:46:57Z

Sniper231996: /* Obsidian caster */

File:Obsidian regenerator water.PNG

2023-12-05T08:40:38Z

Sniper231996: This is the overview of an obsidian regenerator. The retracting bridge, upon hiding, will reveal that it is 7/7 full of water. But for simplicity sake, here it is shown and the water is seen to be invisible, although it should be noted that the water is also present right on the bridge.

== Summary ==
This is the overview of an obsidian regenerator. The retracting bridge, upon hiding, will reveal that it is 7/7 full of water. But for simplicity sake, here it is shown and the water is seen to be invisible, although it should be noted that the water is also present right on the bridge.
== Licensing ==
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0|GFDL|migration=redundant}}

Egg production

2023-12-05T08:38:24Z

Sniper231996: /* Egg collection */

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}{{av}}
[[File:poultry_sprites_preview.png|right]]'''Egg production''', like the [[meat industry]], [[beekeeping industry]], [[fishing industry]], and [[farming]], creates [[food]]. In egg production, collection and cooking of [[egg]]s is the primary activity, as, over time, domestic poultry, such as [[chicken]]s, can produce much more food as eggs than the same animal produces as meat when butchered (1 egg = 1 meat = 1 meal). When starting out a new fortress, raising poultry can be an excellent way to quickly fill up your food [[barrel]]s as it requires very little set-up for your dwarves. As a by-product of egg production, older or excess animals can be butchered as part of the [[meat industry]].

== Acquiring egg-laying animals ==
There are several sources for obtaining egg-laying [[animal]]s, outlined below.

===Embark===
You can buy [[Domestic_animal#Comparison_of_domestic_poultry|domestic poultry]] at [[embark]] and even decide how many males and females of each animal you embark with. Since you don't need males to produce eggs, and need only one male to breed, you could embark with three or four hens, and a single rooster. Poultry animals are very economical to purchase at embark, costing only 6[[currency|☼]] each.

Of the domestic poultry, [[turkey]]s produce the most eggs per clutch on average, followed by [[duck]]s, then [[chicken]]s and [[guineafowl]]. Turkeys are also the largest poultry animals, and produce the most meat and other products if butchered as part of the meat industry, with [[goose|geese]] and [[blue peafowl]] only slightly smaller. All domestic poultry become adults one year after hatching, but geese, blue peafowl, and guineafowl grow to full size at one year; other poultry only reach full size after two years.

===Migration===
Domestic poultry may arrive at your fortress with a wave of [[migrant]]s. These animals may be strays or [[pet]]s.

===Trading===
''Requires: A [[trade depot]], a [[Broker|trader]], a [[merchant]], and some tradeable goods''

You can purchase egg-laying animals from a [[caravan]]. While [[human]] and dwarven merchants will generally bring standard poultry, [[elf|elven]] merchants may bring tamed exotic egg-laying animals, which may prove useful for [[alligator|value]] or [[giant eagle|defense]] purposes.

===Cage traps===
''Requires: [[Cage]]s, [[mechanism]]s, a [[mechanic]], animal training [[zone]] and an [[animal trainer]]''

It is also possible to catch egg-laying animals through judicious use of [[cage trap]]s. This, of course, involves building cage traps where these animals will walk or fly. Once they are trapped the caged animal (or [[invader]]) will be delivered to an animal stockpile and the trap will be reset with a fresh cage.

Cage traps should be built where animals ''will'' walk, not where they are when you decide to trap them. Any dwarves sent out to create and arm traps in the animals' midst will scare them away, or trigger their aggression. To successfully trap large animals, form a choke point some distance away from them: build walls, perhaps several z-levels high, to create a continuous barrier to movement.

Leave a small gap one or two tiles wide (depending on how many of the critters you want to trap) and build your cage traps there. If the animals haven't moved off or been scared off by the time you're done, and they're docile enough to not attack once they see your dwarves, use military orders to send a dwarf (or several) around behind the animals and herd them toward the choke point.

Note also that cage traps cannot be built within a certain number of tiles of the map edge, so when planning your funnels and choke points, be sure to leave four or five tiles as a buffer zone.

What wild egg-layers are available depends highly on the [[biome]]. In general, most maps have flying birds of one kind or another, but they tend to stay up in the air, where cage traps can't get them. Several underground creatures are egg-layers, and as such are available on every map, such as the [[crundle]], [[elk bird]] or the rare and dangerous [[jabberer]].

Egg-laying animals that are caught in a cage trap need to be tamed by an [[animal trainer]] at an animal training [[zone]] before they can be safely used to produce eggs. Note that you are not limited to standard domestic poultry; some of the most [[cave crocodile|lucrative and prolific]] egg-layers are reptiles.

===Breeding===
''Requires: One or more adult females and one adult male of each species, one or more [[nest box]]es, and time''

If a [[breeding|compatible]] male and a female of the same species are adjacent to each other and there is an open constructed [[nest box]] for the female to occupy and lay a clutch of eggs in, then sooner or later (and probably sooner) the male will fertilize the eggs laid by the female. A female can lay a clutch of eggs again immediately after the last clutch hatches. A female that cannot claim a nest box ''will not'' lay a clutch of eggs.

A fertilized clutch will only hatch if they are left in the nest box undisturbed and their mother is allowed to incubate the eggs. Collecting the eggs, [[butcher's shop|slaughtering]] or [[animal trainer|training]] the mother, or deconstructing the nest box will all prevent the eggs from hatching. A clutch of eggs to be used for breeding should be [[forbidden]] to prevent their collection. Even if the eggs and mother are left undisturbed, it is possible that clutch was not fertilized. Eggs that don't hatch after two seasons will likely never hatch. To make sure that the eggs are left undisturbed, make sure that no [[stockpile]]s accept that type of egg, and if you [[cooking|cook]] any meals make sure that that type of egg is turned off in the kitchen sub-screen of the [[status]] screen. Alternatively, you can put the nest boxes in a room behind a [[door]] and forbid the door to keep your dwarves away from the eggs.

As a large number of free-roaming animals will reduce your game speed, a common strategy is to cage all your young poultry until they mature. Keep in mind, though, that some tamed wild species take more than a year to mature, unlike most domestic animals. For example, it may be excusable to butcher a [[saltwater crocodile]] hatchling right away, rather than wait 3 years for it to mature and produce more meat and bones.

Using [[cage trap]]s judiciously (or taking advantage of the animals [[elf|elves]] trade) can sometimes snag you a breeding pair of a wild animal. Tame something unusual and start something crazy, like a [[cave crocodile]] farm!

===Capture===
Through the use of expeditions, a player can capture animals not otherwise available. For example, [[raid]]ing a [[goblin]] settlement may yield [[beak dog]]s which, curiously, lay eggs.

==Egg collection==
''Requires: A tame adult female egg-laying animal, a [[nest box]], and [[food hauling]]''

Once you have at least one tame adult female egg-laying animal, you need to build a [[nest box]] to begin production of delicious and filling [[egg]]s. Every so often, the adult females will claim a nest box and lay a clutch of eggs. Then, a [[food hauling|food hauler]] will collect the eggs and move them to a food [[stockpile]]. Food hauling is an unskilled labor, so any dwarf in the fortress can do it. Egg collection is a great way to use those [[peasant]]s that otherwise just move boulders around the fortress.
This is a small guide aimed towards egg farming, I hope this helps and makes it easy to understand the egg industry... likewise an egg industry can be implemented towards a meat/leather/bone industry at any time with patience.
Here's the guide : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2975716340

Eggs must be [[cook]]ed into [[prepared meal]]s at a [[kitchen]] before they can be eaten by dwarves.

==Egg-laying animals==
{{catbox|DF2014:Egglaying}}
{| border="1px #AAA solid;" style="text-align:center;" class="wikitable sortable"
|+style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#EEE;"| '''Outdoor Animals'''
|-
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Animal
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Graphic
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Body Size (max)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Maturation Time (years)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Max Age (years)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Number of Eggs
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Egg Size**
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Notes
|-
|[[Adder]]
|[[File:adder_sprite.png]]
|150
|0*
|15-20
|3-10
|16
|
|-
|[[Albatross]]
|[[File:albatross_sprite.png]]
|8,000
|1
|40-50
|1
|305
|
|-
|[[Alligator]]
|[[File:alligator_sprite.png]]
|400,000
|1
|60-100
|10-30
|80
|
|-
|[[Alligator snapping turtle]]
|[[File:alligator_snapping_turtle_sprite.png]]
|80,000
|0*
|30-70
|5-10
|70
|
|-
|[[Barn owl]]
|[[File:barn_owl_sprite.png]]
|500
|1
|10-20
|3-6
|32
|
|-
|[[Beak dog]]
|[[File:beak_dog_sprite.png]]
|150,000
|1
|10-20
|5-10
|1600
|Domestic in [[goblin]] civilizations. Not tameable until [[Release information/0.44.07|v0.44.07]].
|-
|[[Black mamba]]
|[[File:black_mamba_sprite.png]]
|5,000
|0*
|10-15
|10-30
|50
|
|-
|[[Blue peafowl]]
|[[File:peafowls_sprite_anim.gif]]
|4,000
|1
|15-30
|6-8
|102
|[[Domestic animal|Domestic]]
|-
|[[Bushmaster]]
|[[File:bushmaster_sprite.png]]
|8,500
|0*
|12-24
|10-20
|22
|
|-
|[[Buzzard]]
|[[File:buzzard_sprite.png]]
|1,400
|1
|10-20
|2-3
|60
|
|-
|[[Cassowary]]
|[[File:cassowary_sprite.png]]
|50,000
|1
|40-50
|3-6
|550
|
|-
|[[Chicken]]
|[[File:chickens_sprite_anim.gif]]
|3,000
|1
|7-15
|4-15
|62
|[[Domestic animal|Domestic]]
|-
|[[Common snapping turtle]]
|[[File:snapping_turtle_sprite.png]]
|30,000
|0*
|30-50
|5-10
|50
|
|-
|[[Desert tortoise]]
|[[File:desert_tortoise_sprite.png]]
|5,500
|1
|80-100
|3-5
|40
|
|-
|[[Duck]]
|[[File:ducks_sprite_anim.gif]]
|1,000
|1
|7-9
|8-13
|52
|[[Domestic animal|Domestic]]
|-
|[[Eagle]]
|[[File:eagle_sprite.png]]
|4,000
|1
|20-30
|1-3
|142
|
|-
|[[Echidna]]
|[[File:echidna_sprite.png]]
|10,000
|1
|10-20
|1
|1
|
|-
|[[Emperor penguin]]
|[[File:emperor_penguin_sprite.png]]
|30,000
|1
|20-50
|1
|465
|Not tameable
|-
|[[Emu]]
|[[File:emu_sprite.png]]
|35,000
|1
|15-25
|5-15
|805
|
|-
|[[Giant adder]]
|[[File:giant_adder_sprite.png]]
|201,049
|0*
|15-20
|3-10
|16
|
|-
|[[Giant albatross]]
|[[File:giant_albatross_sprite.png]]
|256,320
|1
|40-50
|1
|305
|
|-
|[[Giant alligator]]
|[[File:giant_alligator_sprite.png]]
|3,268,000
|1
|60-100
|10-30
|80
|
|-
|[[Giant anole]]
|[[File:giant_anole_sprite.png]]
|200,629
|0*
|5-7
|1-2
|10
|
|-
|[[Giant barn owl]]
|[[File:giant_barn_owl_sprite.png]]
|203,500
|1
|10-20
|3-6
|32
|
|-
|[[Giant black mamba]]
|[[File:giant_black_mamba_sprite.png]]
|235,100
|0*
|10-15
|10-30
|50
|
|-
|[[Giant bluejay]]
|[[File:giant_bluejay_sprite.png]]
|200,700
|1
|10-20
|2-7
|11
|
|-
|[[Giant bushmaster]]
|[[File:giant_bushmaster_sprite.png]]
|259,845
|0*
|12-24
|10-20
|22
|
|-
|[[Giant bushtit]]
|[[File:giant_bushtit_sprite.png]]
|200,035
|1
|1-2
|5-13
|1
|
|-
|[[Giant buzzard]]
|[[File:giant_buzzard_sprite.png]]
|209,804
|1
|10-20
|2-3
|60
|
|-
|[[Giant cardinal]]
|[[File:giant_cardinal_sprite.png]]
|200,350
|1
|10-20
|2-5
|9
|
|-
|[[Giant cassowary]]
|[[File:giant_cassowary_sprite.png]]
|560,000
|1
|40-50
|3-6
|550
|
|-
|[[Giant chameleon]]
|[[File:giant_chameleon_sprite.png]]
|201,049
|0*
|5-10
|40-50
|10
|
|-
|[[Giant cockatiel]]
|[[File:giant_cockatiel_sprite.png]]
|200,629
|1
|15-30
|2-8
|11
|
|-
|[[Giant crow]]
|[[File:giant_crow_sprite.png]]
|203,500
|1
|10-15
|4-6
|21
|
|-
|[[Giant desert tortoise]]
|[[File:giant_desert_tortoise_sprite.png]]
|238,645
|1
|80-100
|3-5
|40
|
|-
|[[Giant eagle]]
|[[File:giant_eagle_sprite.png]]
|228,040
|1
|20-30
|1-3
|142
|
|-
|[[Giant echidna]]
|[[File:giant_echidna_sprite.png]]
|270,500
|1
|10-20
|1
|1
|
|-
|[[Giant emu]]
|[[File:giant_emu_sprite.png]]
|450,100
|1
|15-25
|5-15
|805
|
|-
|[[Giant gila monster]]
|[[File:giant_gila_monster_sprite.png]]
|214,020
|1
|20-30
|2-12
|32
|
|-
|[[Giant grackle]]
|[[File:giant_grackle_sprite.png]]
|200,840
|1
|10-20
|1-7
|12
|
|-
|[[Giant great horned owl]]
|[[File:giant_great_horned_owl_sprite.png]]
|214,020
|1
|15-20
|1-5
|51
|
|-
|[[Giant grey parrot]]
|[[File:giant_grey_parrot_sprite.png]]
|202,800
|1
|40-60
|1-5
|40
|
|-
|[[Giant hornbill]]
|[[File:giant_hornbill_sprite.png]]
|217,525
|1
|35-40
|1-4
|50
|
|-
|[[Giant iguana]]
|[[File:giant_iguana_sprite.png]]
|228,040
|1
|10-20
|40-50
|15
|
|-
|[[Giant kakapo]]
|[[File:giant_kakapo_sprite.png]]
|221,040
|7
|60-120
|1-4
|52
|
|-
|[[Giant kea]]
|[[File:giant_kea_sprite.png]]
|207,010
|1
|30-50
|2-5
|62
|
|-
|[[Giant kestrel]]
|[[File:giant_kestrel_sprite.png]]
|201,750
|1
|10-20
|3-6
|32
|
|-
|[[Giant king cobra]]
|[[File:giant_king_cobra_sprite.png]]
|242,160
|0*
|15-25
|10-30
|5
|
|-
|[[Giant kingsnake]]
|[[File:giant_kingsnake_sprite.png]]
|210,510
|0*
|20-30
|5-12
|20
|
|-
|[[Giant kiwi]]
|[[File:giant_kiwi_sprite.png]]
|217,525
|1
|20-50
|1-2
|450
|
|-
|[[Giant loon]]
|[[File:giant_loon_sprite.png]]
|242,160
|1
|25-30
|2-4
|152
|
|-
|[[Giant lorikeet]]
|[[File:giant_lorikeet_sprite.png]]
|201,400
|1
|15-30
|2
|11
|
|-
|[[Giant magpie]]
|[[File:giant_magpie_sprite.png]]
|201,400
|1
|10-20
|2-5
|11
|
|-
|[[Giant masked lovebird]]
|[[File:giant_masked_lovebird_sprite.png]]
|200,629
|1
|10-15
|4-5
|7
|
|-
|[[Giant monitor lizard]]
|[[File:giant_monitor_lizard_sprite.png]]
|933,000
|1
|20-30
|15-25
|70
|
|-
|[[Giant oriole]]
|[[File:giant_oriole_sprite.png]]
|200,280
|1
|10-20
|3-7
|8
|
|-
|[[Giant osprey]]
|[[File:giant_osprey_sprite.png]]
|214,020
|1
|20-30
|2-4
|60
|
|-
|[[Giant ostrich]]
|[[File:giant_ostrich_sprite.png]]
|857,700
|1
|35-45
|10-15
|2000
|
|-
|[[Giant parakeet]]
|[[File:giant_parakeet_sprite.png]]
|200,840
|1
|15-25
|2-4
|11
|
|-
|[[Giant peach-faced lovebird]]
|[[File:giant_peach_faced_lovebird_sprite.png]]
|200,419
|1
|10-15
|4-6
|9
|
|-
|[[Giant peregrine falcon]]
|[[File:giant_peregrine_falcon_sprite.png]]
|113,292
|1
|12-15
|3-4
|46
|
|-
|[[Giant platypus]]
|[[File:giant_platypus_sprite.png]]
|214,020
|1
|10-20
|1-3
|11
|
|-
|[[Giant pond turtle]]
|[[File:giant_pond_turtle_sprite.png]]
|203,500
|0*
|40-100
|1-15
|6
|
|-
|[[Giant puffin]]
|[[File:giant_puffin_sprite.png]]
|205,252
|1
|15-20
|1
|30
|
|-
|[[Giant python]]
|[[File:giant_python_sprite.png]]
|1,700,000
|0*
|10-20
|10-30
|50
|
|-
|[[Giant raven]]
|[[File:giant_raven_sprite.png]]
|208,404
|1
|20-40
|3-7
|52
|
|-
|[[Giant red-winged blackbird]]
|[[File:giant_red-winged_blackbird_sprite.png]]
|200,350
|1
|10-20
|2-4
|11
|
|-
|[[Giant saltwater crocodile]]
|[[File:giant_saltwater_crocodile_sprite.png]]
|6,440,000
|3
|60-100
|20-70
|100
|
|-
|[[Giant skink]]
|[[File:giant_skink_sprite.png]]
|203,500
|0*
|15-20
|10-30
|10
|
|-
|[[Giant snapping turtle]]
|[[File:giant_snapping_turtle_sprite.png]]
|414,000
|0*
|30-50
|5-10
|50
|
|-
|[[Giant snowy owl]]
|[[File:giant_snowy_owl_sprite.png]]
|214,020
|1
|10-30
|5-10
|62
|
|-
|[[Giant sparrow]]
|[[File:giant_sparrow_sprite.png]]
|200,210
|1
|5-10
|2-7
|3
|
|-
|[[Giant swan]]
|[[File:giant_swan_sprite.png]]
|270,500
|1
|10-25
|5-7
|340
|
|-
|[[Giant tortoise]]
|[[File:giant_tortoise_sprite.png]]
|300,000
|1
|100-200
|5-10
|82
|
|-
|[[Giant vulture]]
|[[File:giant_vulture_sprite.png]]
|263,430
|1
|10-20
|1-3
|60
|
|-
|[[Giant white stork]]
|[[File:giant_white_stork_sprite.png]]
|221,040
|1
|20-40
|1-7
|110
|
|-
|[[Giant wren]]
|[[File:giant_wren_sprite.png]]
|200,280
|1
|5-7
|3-10
|5
|
|-
|[[Gigantic tortoise]]
|[[File:gigantic_tortoise_sprite.png]]
|2,478,000
|1
|100-200
|5-10
|82
|
|-
|[[Gila monster]]
|[[File:gila_monster_sprite.png]]
|2,000
|1
|20-30
|2-12
|32
|
|-
|[[Goose]]
|[[File:goose_sprite.png]]
|4,500
|1
|10-24
|3-8
|152
|[[Domestic animal|Domestic]]
|-
|[[Great horned owl]]
|[[File:great_horned_owl_sprite.png]]
|2,000
|1
|15-20
|1-5
|51
|
|-
|[[Grey parrot]]
|[[File:grey_parrot_sprite.png]]
|400
|1
|40-60
|1-5
|40
|
|-
|[[Guineafowl]]
|[[File:guineafowl_sprite.png]]
|1,500
|1
|10-15
|4-15
|42
|[[Domestic animal|Domestic]]
|-
|[[Hornbill]]
|[[File:hornbill_sprite.png]]
|2,500
|1
|35-40
|1-4
|50
|
|-
|[[Iguana]]
|[[File:iguana_sprite.png]]
|4,000
|1
|10-20
|40-50
|15
|
|-
|[[Kakapo]]
|[[File:kakapo_sprite.png]]
|3,000
|7
|60-120
|1-4
|52
|
|-
|[[Kea]]
|[[File:kea_sprite.png]]
|1,000
|1
|30-50
|2-5
|62
|
|-
|[[Kestrel]]
|[[File:kestrel_sprite.png]]
|250
|1
|10-20
|3-6
|32
|
|-
|[[King cobra]]
|[[File:king_cobra_sprite.png]]
|6,000
|0*
|15-25
|10-30
|5
|
|-
|[[Kingsnake]]
|[[File:kingsnake_sprite.png]]
|1,500
|0*
|20-30
|5-12
|20
|
|-
|[[Kiwi]]
|[[File:kiwi_sprite.png]]
|2,500
|1
|20-50
|1-2
|450
|
|-
|[[Kobold]]
|[[File:kobold_sprite.png]]
|20,000
|12
|150-170
|1-2
|1100
|Forms crude civilizations, not tameable
|-
|[[Little penguin]]
|[[File:little_penguin_sprite.png]]
|1,500
|1
|20-30
|2
|53
|Not tameable
|-
|[[Loon]]
|[[File:loon_sprite.png]]
|6,000
|1
|25-30
|2-4
|152
|
|-
|[[Monitor lizard]]
|[[File:monitor_lizard_sprite.png]]
|100,000
|1
|20-30
|15-25
|70
|
|-
|[[Osprey]]
|[[File:osprey_sprite.png]]
|2,000
|1
|20-30
|2-4
|60
|
|-
|[[Ostrich]]
|[[File:ostrich_sprite_anim.gif]]
|90,000
|1
|35-45
|10-15
|2,000
|
|-
|[[Penguin]]
|[[File:penguin_sprite.png]]
|4,000
|1
|20-30
|2
|125
|Not tameable
|-
|[[Peregrine falcon]]
|[[File:peregrine_falcon_sprite.png]]
|600
|1
|12-15
|3-4
|46
|
|-
|[[Platypus]]
|[[File:platypus_sprite.png]]
|2,000
|1
|10-20
|1-3
|11
|
|-
|[[Puffin]]
|[[File:puffin_sprite.png]]
|750
|1
|15-20
|1
|30
|
|-
|[[Python]]
|[[File:python_sprite.png]]
|200,000
|0*
|10-20
|10-30
|50
|
|-
|[[Raven]]
|[[File:raven_sprite.png]]
|1,200
|1
|20-40
|3-7
|52
|
|-
|[[Saltwater crocodile]]
|[[File:saltwater_crocodile_sprite.png]]
|800,000
|3
|60-100
|20-70
|100
|
|-
|[[Sea serpent]]
|[[File:sea_serpent_sprite.png]]
|9,000,000
|6
|150-175
|1
|6100
|[[Aquatic]], cannot lay eggs due to a bug.{{bug|4105}}
|-
|[[Snowy owl]]
|[[File:snowy_owl_sprite.png]]
|2,000
|1
|10-30
|5-10
|62
|
|-
|[[Swan]]
|[[File:swan_sprite.png]]
|10,000
|1
|10-25
|5-7
|340
|
|-
|[[Turkey]]
|[[File:turkey_sprite.png]]
|5,000
|1
|7-10
|10-14
|87
|[[Domestic animal|Domestic]]
|-
|[[Vulture]]
|[[File:vulture_sprite.png]]
|9,000
|1
|10-20
|1-3
|60
|
|-
|[[White stork]]
|[[File:white_stork_sprite.png]]
|3,000
|1
|20-40
|1-7
|110
|
|}

:* ''This creature cannot be fully tamed by dwarves, and thus will require frequent training.''
:** ''Egg size does not currently affect food quantity.''

{| border="1px #AAA solid;" style="text-align:center;" class="wikitable sortable"
|+style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#EEE;"| '''Subterranean Animals'''
|-
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Animal
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Graphic
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Body Size (max)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Maturation Time (years)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Max Age (years)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Number of Eggs
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Egg Size**
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Notes
|-
|[[Cave crocodile]]
|[[File:cave_crocodile_sprite.png]]
|600,000
|3
|60-100
|20-60
|80
|
|-
|[[Cave dragon]]
|[[File:cave_dragon_sprite_anim.gif]]
|15,000,000
|0*
|Immortal
|1-3
|6100
|
|-
|[[Crundle]]
|[[File:crundle_sprite.png]]
|10,000
|0*
|10-20
|5-20
|60
|
|-
|[[Elk bird]]
|[[File:elk_bird_sprite.png]]
|100,000
|1
|10-20
|2-10
|60
|[[Grazer]], may starve itself to death while incubating eggs.{{Bug|4637}}
|-
|[[Giant cave swallow]]
|[[File:giant_cave_swallow_sprite.png]]
|200,000
|1
|10-20
|2-3
|2100
|
|-
|[[Helmet snake]]
|[[File:helmet_snake_sprite.png]]
|50,000
|0*
|40-60
|10-30
|50
|
|-
|[[Jabberer]]
|[[File:jabberer_sprite_anim.gif]]
|4,500,000
|1
|10-20
|1-2
|5100
|
|}

:* ''This creature cannot be fully tamed by dwarves, and thus will require frequent training.''
:** ''Egg size does not currently affect food quantity.''

{| border="1px #AAA solid;" style="text-align:center;" class="wikitable sortable"
|+style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#EEE;"| '''[[:Megabeast|Megabeasts]]'''
|-
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Animal
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Graphic
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Body Size (max)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Maturation Time (years)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Max Age (years)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Number of Eggs
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Egg Size**
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Notes
|-
|[[Dragon]]
|[[File:dragon_sprite.png]]
|25,000,000
|0*
|Immortal
|1-3
|6100
|
|-
|[[Roc]]
|[[File:roc_sprite.png]]
|20,000,000
|1
|Immortal
|1-2
|201000
|
|}

:* ''This creature cannot be fully tamed by dwarves, and thus will require frequent training.''
:** ''Egg size does not currently affect food quantity.''

== Animal people ==

{| border="1px #AAA solid;" style="text-align:center;" class="wikitable sortable"
|+style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#EEE;"| '''[[Animal people|Animal People]]*'''
|-
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Animal
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Graphic
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Body Size (max)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Maturation Time (years)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Max Age (years)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Number of Eggs
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Egg Size**
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Notes
|-
|[[Adder man]]
|[[File:adder_man_sprite.png]]
|35,075
|0
|60-80
|3-10
|16
|
|-
|[[Albatross man]]
|[[File:albatross_man_sprite.png]]
|39,000
|1
|60-80
|1
|305
|
|-
|[[Alligator man]]
|[[File:alligator_man_sprite.png]]
|235,000
|1
|60-80
|10-30
|80
|
|-
|[[Anole man]]
|[[File:anole_man_sprite.png]]
|35,045
|0
|60-80
|1-2
|10
|
|-
|[[Barn owl man]]
|[[File:barn_owl_man_sprite.png]]
|35,250
|1
|60-80
|3-6
|32
|
|-
|[[Black mamba man]]
|[[File:black_mamba_man_sprite.png]]
|37,500
|0
|60-80
|10-30
|50
|
|-
|[[Bluejay man]]
|[[File:bluejay_man_sprite.png]]
|35,050
|1
|60-80
|2-7
|11
|
|-
|[[Bushmaster man]]
|[[File:bushmaster_man_sprite.png]]
|39,250
|0
|60-80
|10-20
|22
|
|-
|[[Bushtit man]]
|[[File:bushtit_man_sprite.png]]
|35,002
|1
|60-80
|5-13
|1
|
|-
|[[Buzzard man]]
|[[File:buzzard_man_sprite.png]]
|35,700
|1
|60-80
|2-3
|60
|
|-
|[[Cardinal man]]
|[[File:cardinal_man_sprite.png]]
|35,025
|1
|60-80
|2-5
|9
|
|-
|[[Cassowary man]]
|[[File:cassowary_man_sprite.png]]
|60,000
|1
|60-80
|3-6
|550
|
|-
|[[Cave swallow man]]
|[[File:cave_swallow_man_sprite.png]]
|35,050
|1
|20-30
|4-5
|11
|
|-
|[[Chameleon man]]
|[[File:chameleon_man_sprite.png]]
|35,075
|0
|60-80
|40-50
|10
|
|-
|[[Cockatiel man]]
|[[File:cockatiel_man_sprite.png]]
|35,045
|1
|60-80
|2-8
|11
|
|-
|[[Crow man]]
|[[File:crow_man_sprite.png]]
|35,250
|1
|60-80
|4-6
|21
|
|-
|[[Desert tortoise man]]
|[[File:desert_tortoise_man_sprite.png]]
|37,750
|1
|60-89
|3-5
|40
|
|-
|[[Eagle man]]
|[[File:eagle_man_sprite.png]]
|37,000
|1
|60-80
|1-3
|142
|
|-
|[[Echidna man]]
|[[File:echidna_man_sprite.png]]
|40,000
|1
|60-80
|1
|1
|
|-
|[[Emu man]]
|[[File:emu_man_sprite.png]]
|52,500
|1
|60-80
|5-15
|805
|
|-
|[[Giant tortoise man]]
|[[File:giant_tortoise_man_sprite.png]]
|185,000
|1
|60-80
|5-10
|82
|
|-
|[[Gila monster man]]
|[[File:gila_monster_man_sprite.png]]
|36,000
|1
|60-80
|2-12
|32
|
|-
|[[Grackle man]]
|[[File:grackle_man_sprite.png]]
|35,060
|1
|60-80
|1-7
|12
|
|-
|[[Great horned owl man]]
|[[File:great_horned_owl_man_sprite.png]]
|36,000
|1
|60-80
|1-5
|51
|
|-
|[[Grey parrot man]]
|[[File:grey_parrot_man_sprite.png]]
|35,200
|1
|60-80
|1-5
|40
|
|-
|[[Hornbill man]]
|[[File:hornbill_man_sprite.png]]
|36,250
|1
|60-80
|1-4
|50
|
|-
|[[Iguana man]]
|[[File:iguana_man_sprite.png]]
|37,000
|1
|60-80
|40-50
|15
|
|-
|[[Kakapo man]]
|[[File:kakapo_man_sprite.png]]
|36,500
|7
|60-80
|1-4
|52
|
|-
|[[Kea man]]
|[[File:kea_man_sprite.png]]
|35,500
|1
|60-80
|2-5
|62
|
|-
|[[Kestrel man]]
|[[File:kestrel_man_sprite.png]]
|35,125
|1
|60-80
|3-6
|32
|
|-
|[[King cobra man]]
|[[File:king_cobra_man_sprite.png]]
|38,000
|0
|60-80
|10-30
|5
|
|-
|[[Kingsnake man]]
|[[File:kingsnake_man_sprite.png]]
|35,750
|0
|60-80
|5-12
|20
|
|-
|[[Kiwi man]]
|[[File:kiwi_man_sprite.png]]
|36,250
|1
|60-80
|1-2
|450
|
|-
|[[Loon man]]
|[[File:loon_man_sprite.png]]
|38,000
|1
|60-80
|2-4
|152
|
|-
|[[Lorikeet man]]
|[[File:lorikeet_man_sprite.png]]
|35,100
|1
|60-80
|2
|11
|
|-
|[[Magpie man]]
|[[File:magpie_man_sprite.png]]
|35,100
|1
|60-80
|2-5
|11
|
|-
|[[Masked lovebird man]]
|[[File:masked_lovebird_man_sprite.png]]
|35,045
|1
|60-80
|4-5
|7
|
|-
|[[Monitor lizard man]]
|[[File:monitor_lizard_man_sprite.png]]
|85,000
|1
|60-80
|15-25
|70
|
|-
|[[Oriole man]]
|[[File:oriole_man_sprite.png]]
|35,020
|1
|60-80
|3-7
|8
|
|-
|[[Osprey man]]
|[[File:osprey_man_sprite.png]]
|36,000
|1
|60-80
|2-4
|60
|
|-
|[[Ostrich man]]
|[[File:ostrich_man_sprite_anim.gif]]
|80,000
|1
|60-80
|10-15
|2000
|
|-
|[[Parakeet man]]
|[[File:parakeet_man_sprite.png]]
|35,060
|1
|60-80
|2-4
|11
|
|-
|[[Peach-faced lovebird man]]
|[[File:peach_faced_lovebird_man_sprite.png]]
|35,030
|1
|60-80
|4-6
|9
|
|-
|[[Peregrine falcon man]]
|[[File:peregrine_falcon_man_sprite.png]]
|35,300
|1
|60-80
|3-4
|46
|
|-
|[[Platypus man]]
|[[File:platypus_man_sprite.png]]
|36,000
|1
|60-80
|1-3
|11
|
|-
|[[Pond turtle man]]
|[[File:pond_turtle_man_sprite.png]]
|35,250
|0
|60-80
|1-15
|6
|
|-
|[[Puffin man]]
|[[File:puffin_man_sprite.png]]
|35,375
|1
|60-80
|1
|30
|
|-
|[[Python man]]
|[[File:python_man_sprite.png]]
|135,000
|0
|60-80
|10-30
|50
|
|-
|[[Raven man]]
|[[File:raven_man_sprite.png]]
|35,600
|1
|60-80
|3-7
|52
|
|-
|[[Red-winged blackbird man]]
|[[File:red_winged_blackbird_man_sprite.png]]
|35,025
|1
|60-80
|2-4
|11
|
|-
|[[Reptile man]]
|[[File:reptile_man_sprite.png]]
|50,000
|12
|60-80
|1-3
|1600
|
|-
|[[Saltwater crocodile man]]
|[[File:saltwater_crocodile_man_sprite.png]]
|435,000
|3
|60-80
|20-70
|100
|
|-
|[[Serpent man]]
|[[File:serpent_man_sprite.png]]
|50,000
|12
|60-80
|1-3
|1600
|
|-
|[[Skink man]]
|[[File:skink_man_sprite.png]]
|35,250
|0
|60-80
|10-30
|10
|
|-
|[[Snapping turtle man]]
|[[File:snapping_turtle_man_sprite.png]]
|50,000
|0
|60-80
|5-10
|50
|
|-
|[[Snowy owl man]]
|[[File:snowy_owl_man_sprite.png]]
|36,000
|1
|60-80
|5-10
|62
|
|-
|[[Sparrow man]]
|[[File:sparrow_man_sprite.png]]
|35,015
|1
|60-80
|2-7
|3
|
|-
|[[Swan man]]
|[[File:swan_man_sprite.png]]
|40,000
|1
|60-80
|5-7
|340
|
|-
|[[Vulture man]]
|[[File:vulture_man_sprite.png]]
|39,500
|1
|60-80
|1-3
|60
|
|-
|[[White stork man]]
|[[File:white_stork_man_sprite.png]]
|36,500
|1
|60-80
|1-7
|110
|
|-
|[[Wren man]]
|[[File:wren_man_sprite.png]]
|35,020
|1
|60-80
|3-10
|5
|
|}

:* ''Animal people cannot be tamed, but they can join civilizations during worldgen and later arrive as visitors.''
:** ''Egg size does not currently affect food quantity.'

{| border="1px #AAA solid;" style="text-align:center;" class="wikitable sortable"
|+style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#EEE;"| '''[[Vermin]]*'''
|-
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Animal
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Graphic
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Body Size (max)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Maturation Time (years)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Max Age (years)
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Number of Eggs
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Egg Size**
!style="border:1px #AAA solid;background:#DDD;"| Notes
|-
|[[Anole]]
|[[File:anole_sprite.png]]
|90
|0
|5-7
|1-2
|10
|
|-
|[[Blue jay]]
|[[File:blue_jay_sprite.png]]
|100
|1
|10-20
|2-7
|11
|
|-
|[[Bushtit]]
|[[File:bushtit_sprite.png]]
|5
|1
|1-2
|5-13
|1
|
|-
|[[Cardinal]]
|[[File:cardinal_sprite.png]]
|50
|1
|10-20
|2-5
|9
|
|-
|[[Cave swallow]]
|[[File:cave_swallow_sprite.png]]
|100
|1
|10-20
|4-5
|11
|
|-
|[[Chameleon]]
|[[File:chameleon_sprite.png]]
|150
|0
|5-10
|40-50
|10
|
|-
|[[Cockatiel]]
|[[File:cockatiel_sprite.png]]
|90
|1
|15-30
|2-8
|11
|
|-
|[[Crow]]
|[[File:crow_sprite.png]]
|500
|1
|10-15
|4-6
|21
|
|-
|[[Grackle]]
|[[File:grackle_sprite.png]]
|120
|1
|10-20
|1-7
|12
|
|-
|[[Lorikeet]]
|[[File:lorikeet_sprite.png]]
|200
|1
|15-30
|2
|11
|
|-
|[[Magpie]]
|[[File:magpie_sprite.png]]
|200
|1
|10-20
|2-5
|11
|
|-
|[[Masked lovebird]]
|[[File:masked_lovebird_sprite.png]]
|90
|1
|10-15
|4-5
|7
|
|-
|[[Oriole]]
|[[File:oriole_sprite.png]]
|40
|1
|10-20
|3-7
|8
|
|-
|[[Parakeet]]
|[[File:parakeet_sprite.png]]
|120
|1
|15-25
|2-4
|11
|
|-
|[[Peach-faced lovebird]]
|[[File:peach_faced_lovebird_sprite.png]]
|60
|1
|10-15
|4-6
|9
|
|-
|[[Pond turtle]]
|[[File:pond_turtle_sprite.png]]
|500
|0
|40-100
|1-15
|6
|
|-
|[[Red-winged blackbird]]
|[[File:red-winged_blackbird_sprite.png]]
|50
|1
|10-20
|2-4
|11
|
|-
|[[Skink]]
|[[File:skink_sprite.png]]
|500
|0
|15-20
|10-30
|10
|
|-
|[[Sparrow]]
|[[File:sparrow_sprite.png]]
|30
|1
|5-10
|2-7
|3
|
|-
|[[Two-legged rhino lizard]]
|[[File:two_legged_rhino_lizard_sprite.png]]
|1,000
|1
|2-3
|10-30
|40
|
|-
|[[Wren]]
|[[File:wren_sprite.png]]
|40
|1
|5-7
|3-10
|5
|
|-
|}

:* ''Vermin cannot currently be used for egg production in fortress mode.''
:** ''Egg size does not currently affect food quantity.'

==Bugs==
Aquatic egg-laying animals will not claim a nest box. It doesn't matter if the box is built underwater or on land. {{Bug|4105}}

{{Category|Food}}
{{Category|Guides}}
{{Category|Industry}}
{{Industry}}
[[ru:Egg production]]

Forgotten beast

2023-12-05T08:33:35Z

Sniper231996: /* Applications */

{{Quality|Exceptional}}
{{av}}
{{minorspoiler}}
{{random image|location=right|size=300px}}

:''In the deep, there are beasts so fell and terrible, that only they know what they are, for none who have met them have lived to tell of it... they are the Forgotten Beasts, born of the chaos from before the world's birth... they have waited, brooding in the dark places of the world... and now... by digging too deep... we have awakened them.''

'''Forgotten beasts''' are the subterranean equivalent of [[titan]]s; large, monstrous, procedurally generated [[megabeast]]s that spawn in the [[caverns]] or [[HFS]] beneath your fortress, [[path]]ing through to your fort and seeding destruction amongst your [[dwarves]]. They are attracted by [[wealth]] and population size. Additionally, one may randomly appear when you reclaim a fortress. When a forgotten beast becomes visible onscreen, the game automatically pauses and displays a message.

== Generation ==
{{imagefix|[[File:Beast_example2_sprite.png]]}}Forgotten beasts are procedurally randomized, being of any form, and being made of any sort of material. Multiple forgotten beasts may come to attack your fortress, each coming at different times. Most take the form of an animal, [[Random creature profile|some not found in vanilla DF]], with extra features (e.g. extra eyes, feathers) or removed body parts (e.g. skinless cobras) and unusual colours. However, a forgotten beast can also take more generic forms, such as shelled blobs, quadrupeds, and humanoid golems. Materials range from flesh and blood, to flimsy things like [[ash]] and [[steam]], to truly scary monsters of pure [[rock]], [[gem]], or [[metal]]. They may get a special attack, ranging from anything between venomous stings, poisoned blood, or explosive dust clouds, to flame breath. Forgotten beasts are associated with the [[sphere]] of caverns, plus one or two other spheres (water, theft, thralldom, darkness, suicide, muck, etc.).

If a forgotten beast has a venomous attack of some sort, it is randomly generated, as are the resulting [[symptom]]s, as furthermore is its [[Syndrome#Breath_attacks|breath attack]], if it has one. Venom attacks come in a variety of forms, from boiling ichor to trailing dust, and the effects can range from mild pain to complete and instantaneous necrosis or paralysis. Some forms of venom can spread from spatters and contact with your dwarves, eventually 'infecting' your entire fort - decontaminating your soldiers in shallow running water is one way to deal with the problem. Some beasts breathe fire or shoot [[web]]s in lieu of any syndrome-bearing attacks. Web-shooters are immune to the effects of webs they, or any other creature, create, and will shoot webs even at targets they lack a proper path to. Forgotten beasts based on spiders may be capable of shooting webs in addition to any other special abilities.

The number of forgotten beasts cannot be controlled directly, but is influenced by the size of the world and is directly proportional to the number of cavern layers, as exactly one beast is spawned per each underground region. All are [[building destroyer]]s, and are almost entirely immune to [[trap]]s (they are {{token|TRAPAVOID|c}} and {{token|NOSTUN|c}} but non-webspinners will trigger a trap that has been webbed). [[Bridge]]s are also less useful, as they cannot be raised or lowered as long as the beast is standing on (or under) them, preventing the traditional [[magma]] pit / [[dwarven atom smasher]] designs from working. This is probably one of [[Main:Toady One|Toady One]]'s ways of making the encounters even more [[fun]].

[[Image:DF2010ForgottenBeast1.png|thumb|center|500px]]

== Death and application ==
{{random image|location=right|size=300px}}
If you need to kill a forgotten beast, order your military to attack. Some beasts, however, are content not to path to your fortress and will stay dormant underground. Most "fleshy" forgotten beasts can be butchered; some are quite massive and may leave you with hundreds of meat and bone units and dozens of prepared organ units. Forgotten beast [[shell]]s may prove valuable during a [[strange mood]], particularly on a map without other sources of shells. Unfortunately, all forgotten beasts have a value multiplier of 1.

Some forgotten beasts whose bodies are made of liquid, gas, fire, or powder will die or lose limbs on the first hit. Other forgotten beasts are extremely difficult to kill due to being made of very hard materials or having an amorphous shape. When confronted with such near-invulnerable creatures the only option is usually to use your brain and try to lock it away (the beast; dwarven brains are locked away by default) somehow. Walls and raised [[bridge|draw bridges]] stop them. Since they are [[building destroyer]]s, you can use installed [[furniture]] to lure them to a particular location. If you can put it in a pit, a clever trapmaker can feed it invaders. If a near-indestructible beast isn't in a position to threaten your dwarves, it can be used to train marksdwarves.

One method of defeating nearly combat-invulnerable forgotten beasts (those whose bodies are made of rock, for instance) is to cause a [[Cave-in]] on top of them. They'll be killed by dropping either natural or constructed walls or floors on them. It is also possible to capture some forgotten beasts in cage traps by using [[giant cave spider]] webs (or similar).

You can prevent forgotten beasts from appearing by editing [[d_init.txt]] to change [INVADERS:YES] to [INVADERS:NO], though that will also prevent [[ambush]]es and [[siege]]s.

'''Corpses'''
* If made of non-exotic fleshy matter a forgotten beast corpse can be butchered as any other creature. Their huge size means that a large number of components are created and are not therefore highly valued - all forgotten beast ingredients have a value of 1, subject to the usual multipliers when used in crafting or cooking.
* Corpses made of mud and gem etc. are not harvestable. They will be slowly dragged to a refuse pile to rot.

== Forgotten Beast Threat Analysis==
'''If you do not want your [[fun]] spoiled, do not look below!'''

{{clear|both}}

Forgotten beasts pose different levels of threat to your fortress, based on their composition, body shape, movements or special attacks. This list also works with [[titan]]s and [[demon]]s.

Of course, general threat must be appraised after all categories. A giant blob made of smoke with webs is still pretty harmless and very fragile, despite it having webs, and a no-frills humanoid made of steel with no special attack will cause dangerously large amounts of [[fun]], being essentially a far more resilient bronze colossus.

'''Material Composition'''
*''Water, Grime, Filth, Salt, Steam, Smoke, Snow'': Liquids, gasses, and powders are incredibly fragile, and most of them don't do any damage either. In fact, they usually die to kittens playfully scratching them or babies punching them. Unless paired with a dangerous attack method, these should not be a threat at all.
*''Fire'': While very fragile, [[fire]] is incredibly !![[fun]]!!. This type of forgotten beast will usually stay at the edge of the map and may burn large parts of the cavern when it first enters. Engagement should be avoided if it does not path to your fortress (and into a trap) as it could cause casualties with fire spread, contact, and fireballs (passive ability). Dropping an unarmed goblin or two (or a ceiling) on top of it should kill it as it will die as easily as any other gas beast. Upon death, beasts made of fire tend to explode in a large fireball which will kill all units within range, so keep your melee fighters away!
*''Flesh'': Most forgotten beasts are fleshy. It's about the standard level of threat for a forgotten beast. Invertebrates are generally more fragile than vertebrates, due to lack of bones.
*''Rock or Mineral'': Quite difficult, but not unbeatable. Can be damaged with metallic weapons. Beasts may be made of native copper or silver ore; see below for those.
*''Glass or Gem'': They are generally pretty tough, though not quite as much as being made of diamond might imply. If you have poorly equipped dwarves, military action is not advised.
*''Non-weapon grade metal'': Similar to rock forgotten beasts. Most weapons-grade metal can damage it but many decorative metals, like gold, are also quite dense.
*''Copper/Silver'': If you've got a good military and weapons as good as bronze, it should at least be beatable. Don't expect an easy fight by any means, however.
*''Bronze'': If you have encountered a [[bronze colossus]] before, this beast should be comparable in how dangerous it is. Whether it is more or less dangerous will depend on various features such as natural weapons, body type, whether it can fly, material emissions and whatever syndromes it may possess.
*''Iron'': Are you having [[fun]] yet? Do not send anything against it that has less than steel weapons; it will be pointless. Magma also does nothing against these.
*''Steel'': While exceedingly rare, these are fortress-ending threats on the level of [[HFS]]. These can be beaten only with cave-in traps, falling traps, obsidian/ice traps or adamantine weapons. Be sure to post <s>how your fortress ended horribly</s> the epic story of your struggle with it on the Bay12 forums !

'''Body Shape'''
[[File:Forgotten_Beast_Size.png|frame|Estimated size comparison between a forgotten beast and a dwarf.]]
*''Blob'': Depends on material - fleshy blobs having only a single body part. All attacks will target it, causing it to accumulate damage rapidly until it explodes into gore.{{verify}} Has only a blunt push attack, which at an Forgotten Beast's size is deadly. However, ''inorganic'' blobs are a whole other story, and ''metal'' blobs are a sign that the game hates your guts.
*''Worm, Slug, Nematode'': Quite slow, and have one huge body part with internal organs (including brain) easily reachable. Unless paired with some dangerous special attack, these should be easy.
*''Quadruped, Humanoid'': about the average for Forgotten Beasts. Try and use cutting weapons to cripple them. Or spears.
*''Insect, Spider'': Obnoxious because of the large number of redundant limbs. The large majority of spiders (not "tarantulas", apparently) will be guaranteed to have a webbing attack and should thus be treated with extreme care.

'''Movement'''
*''Walking'': Normal movement. All Forgotten Beasts are also amphibious.
*''Flying'': More dangerous than walking, for obvious mobility reasons. Be sure you only have one entry for your caverns.

'''Special attack'''
*''None'': Consider yourself lucky—most forgotten beasts have some kind of [[syndrome]]-based effect. However, certain kinds of beasts have inherent abilities, like fire balls for a beast composed of fire, or webs for a spider-based beast.
*''Noxious Secretions'': Every single part of the creature's body is covered in extract. If it's in liquid or solid form and any of your dwarves touch this extract, they will receive the syndrome effects. Curiously enough, [[biter|biting]] does not qualify as touching. Usually not a threat since dwarves are often well clothed, your military even more so. If the secretions are in gas form, treat the Forgotten Beast as if it has a toxic breath attack. Note that, unlike other attacks, gaseous noxious secretions are effective even if the beast is [[cage]]d.
*''Hunger for warm blood'': When the creature stabs the opponent, some blood will be drawn.
*''Poisonous bite or sting'': Not dangerous by Forgotten Beast standards.
*''Spitting glob'': Generally not dangerous, unless you forgot shields and shield use on your military for some reason.
*''Fire breath'': By itself not threatening if you have shields and decent shield skill. However, [[Fun]] is always where fire is—a burst of flame is quite likely to start a cavern wildfire. The fire can also take the form of fireball projectiles instead. Amusingly, fire-breathing organic Forgotten Beasts are not immune to fire and may even burn themselves to death, though this usually takes some time.
*''Toxic blood, vapor, or gas'': Threat depends on the syndrome's effects - can be harmless or kill your entire military. You may want to sacrifice something to see what the Forgotten Beast's extract does.
*''Webs'': Webs are incredibly deadly in melee, but do not help much at range. It will slaughter your whole melee squad with incredible ease, but not your ranged squad as long as the ranged squad is out of reach. Engage it with marksdwarves or kill it with a cunning trap. Note: it is possible to melee webbers if you fight them in a 1x1 up/down staircase tunnel.
*''Deadly dust'': Possibly the most [[fun]] attack a Forgotten Beast can come with. Deadly dust acts like [[cave-in]] dust with syndromes. Dust coming from all directions (as opposed to a breath attack) is even more [[fun]]. If the material of the Forgotten Beast is weak (like flesh), or if it has articulations or organs to be damaged, it will harm itself with its own deadly dust. However, if it is made of stronger material, it will be immune to this effect. Deadly dust is generally a very effective defense against melee and marksdwarves, but is a liability if the Forgotten Beast is fleshy and not a blob.

==Applications==
Forgotten beasts are hard to catch, being both [[Creature token#T|[TRAPAVOID]]] and [[Creature token#N|[NOSTUN]]]; however trapping them is not impossible. All webbed creatures become vulnerable to [[trap]]s, except for the ones that have a [[web]]bing attack of their own: having a [[giant cave spider]] shoot web on your cage traps will render them into perfect FB-proof nets. Your new prizes can be put to various uses; the most obvious ones consist in dropping them onto various invaders - forgotten beasts are hostile toward each other and will attack any [[Surroundings|wildlife]] or [[Civilization|civilized]] creature they may encounter - but with careful micromanagement, the opportunities are limitless.

===Silk farm===
Web-shooting forgotten beasts are notoriously hard to catch and you'll only get your hands on one of these through ''very'' careful micromanagement, such as building a 'trap room' with retractable bridges and some random animal at the center to attract the beast. The set-up is otherwise the same as that of a [[silk farm]], except that forgotten beast silk is only as valuable as mere [[cave spider]] silk. Note that some beasts have special attacks ''in addition'' to their web-shooting ability (in the case of beasts based on spider-like anatomy resembling that of the [[giant cave spider]]), which may make them more difficult to capture and use (as they may kill their targets rather than simply covering them with webs).

===Weapon coating===

[http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91084 Syndrome-bearing poison can and will affect any creature it can spread to and infect.] While there is no formal job or workshop related to poison coating in vanilla DF (although it does exist in some [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Masterwork:Main_Page mods]), poisoning your weapons is still possible thanks to the impossibly infinite metabolism of your caged guests. Pit them in a similar set-up to that of a [[silk farm]] (you may want to set up a pit from above the farm so you can regularly replace the bait used for the silk farm, or just use a syndrome-immune creature, e.g. a [[zombie]]) and put your weapons (and ammo) stockpiles in the farm so your beast will shoot syndrome-inducing dust/spittle on them. '''Make sure your military dwarves wear gloves when they equip your newly poisoned weapons,''' unless you actually want them to vomit or rot themselves in the middle of the battlefield. You also want them to wear cloaks so they don't contaminate each other while sparring. Some poisons can be '''extremely fun'''; dwarves equipped with poisoned weapons can one-shot most creatures - well, most creatures with functioning organs, at least - through the infliction of superficial wounds. If you can prevent your dwarves from infecting themselves, that is.

===Getting rid of cavern creatures===

Forgotten beasts will actively seek and attack any other [[creature]]s, including cavern wildlife. Sealing the FB in a cavern will make it continuously kill wild inhabitants of the cavern, as these keep coming until their local populations are extinct. You can later obtain a decent supply of [[bone]]s from the skeletons of the creatures the FB killed, when the beast accidentally dies or after you manage to deal with it.

===Catching Forgotten Beasts===
This is a guide that teaches you how to actually trap forgotten beasts to implement them for a variety of FUN activites, traps or other FUN stuff. This is applicable to all FB's except silk web spitting beasts. They simply need to be killed for everyone's benefit. They cannot be webbed. I hope this helps you in any way possible.
Here's the guide:-
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3012304711

==[http://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/19083j/what_makes_forgotten_beasts_forgotten/c8jlvg7 On The Origins of Forgotten Beasts] ==

{{D for Dwarf}}

In the time before time, when Armok himself was not part of the great machine beast framework, the idea itself of ALL-dom, dwarf dom, elf dom, tools and valueless, remained in the greater unknowable realm of hard possibility called <HARDDISKSPACE>; all was concept data idiosyncratic.

Thence came the being of the <flesh machine> and the <machine beast framework> and thence Armok was, is, and ever will be.

Armok hands moved, and invoked the commands of the ur-<plane/realm?>, and raised the possibility of all worlds that can be, of the-blessed-who-can-know-Armok.

Thence Armok exhaled his vaporous breath and said "CREATE NEW WORLD" and the <machine beast framework> began his dire task.

Legions of empires, battalions of timelines, and civilizations of worlds were born, lost, and discarded, as the will of Armok angered in wait.

Finally World Acceptance was allowed.

Yet, the <Flesh Machine Beast Framework> has failed Armok. For Armok knows of the world behind the worlds, of the '''Intent''' of his dimension, of the destination of the unmoving stone.

He knows that the beasts of <null result un-parseable>, those ideas from the time before the rules, exist not.

The Pen-Factor of Armok, the Toady One, foresaw this failure. He knew that the Armok transcended the very power of the universe vessel, the <Machine Beast Framework>, and to please our god, to let him revel in the glory that is the knowing of himself, he forced the existence of the beasts...

They are called "Forgotten" because after the announcement of their arrival they tend to be forgotten until the dwarves decide to open up the sealed off caves for some more exploring.

== Bugs ==
* If a beast has a dust attack, the dust will behave like it was from a [[cave-in]], flinging dwarves away (causing further damage if they hit a wall) and knocking them out. {{Bug|3133}}
* Forgotten beasts can spawn into trees they cannot leave normally or climb into them due combat. (They may still be able to leave when provoked into climbing from seeing something to attack).

==Art==
View a [[Forgotten beast/gallery|gallery]] of artwork from the [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124312.0 forums].

{{random image|location=left|size=600px}}
{{clear}}
{{gamedata|title=Example raws (as extracted from world.dat in version 0.47.04)|
[CREATURE:FORGOTTEN_BEAST_53]
[GENERATED]
[FEATURE_BEAST]
[ATTACK_TRIGGER:0:0:50000]
[NAME:forgotten beast:forgotten beasts:forgotten beast]
[CASTE_NAME:forgotten beast:forgotten beasts:forgotten beast]
[NO_GENDER]
[CARNIVORE]
[DIFFICULTY:10]
[NATURAL_SKILL:WRESTLING:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:BITE:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:MELEE_COMBAT:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:DODGING:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:SITUATIONAL_AWARENESS:6]
[AMPHIBIOUS]
[SWIMS_INNATE]
[NONAUSEA]
[NOEXERT]
[NO_DIZZINESS]
[NOPAIN]
[NOSTUN]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[PETVALUE:2000]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[NOFEAR]
[NO_FEVERS]
[LARGE_PREDATOR]
[SPHERE:CAVERNS]
[SPHERE:DISEASE]
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:10000000]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:20]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[TRAPAVOID]
[CREATURE_TILE:83]
[NO_THOUGHT_CENTER_FOR_MOVEMENT]
[BODY:RCP_BASIC_BODY_STANCE_WITH_HEAD_FLAG:RCP_SHELL:RCP_TWO_WINGS]
[FLIER]
[TISSUE:UNIFORM_TIS]
[TISSUE_NAME:tissue:NP]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:GRIME]
[TISSUE_MAT_STATE:SOLID]
[MUSCULAR]
[FUNCTIONAL]
[STRUCTURAL]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:UNIFORM_TIS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_HEAD_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RELSIZES]
[NOT_LIVING]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE]
[ODOR_STRING:filth]
[ODOR_LEVEL:90]
[COLOR:6:0:0]
[NOBREATHE]
[EXTRAVISION]
[HOMEOTHERM:10040]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:POISON:CREATURE_EXTRACT_TEMPLATE]
[ENTERS_BLOOD]
[SYNDROME]
[SYN_NAME:beast sickness]
[SYN_AFFECTED_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
[SYN_IMMUNE_CREATURE:FORGOTTEN_BEAST_53:ALL]
[SYN_INJECTED]
[SYN_CONTACT]
[SYN_INHALED]
[SYN_INGESTED]
[CE_PARALYSIS:SEV:100:PROB:100:START:1166:PEAK:1652:END:3278:LOCALIZED:RESISTABLE:SIZE_DELAYS:SIZE_DILUTES]
[CE_UNCONSCIOUSNESS:SEV:100:PROB:100:START:768:PEAK:1984:END:4260:RESISTABLE:SIZE_DELAYS:SIZE_DILUTES]
[CE_FEVER:SEV:100:PROB:100:START:1070:PEAK:2378:END:5366:RESISTABLE:SIZE_DELAYS:SIZE_DILUTES]
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:RCP_MATERIAL_EMISSION]
[CDI:USAGE_HINT:ATTACK]
[CDI:TARGET:C:LINE_OF_SIGHT]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:C:15]
[CDI:MAX_TARGET_NUMBER:C:1]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Spit glob]
[CDI:MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:POISON:LIQUID_GLOB]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:30]
[GAIT:SWIM:Maximum Swim Speed:725:10:3:2175:50:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:50]
[GAIT:SWIM:Faster Swim:1450:5:3:2175:10:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:20]
[GAIT:SWIM:Fast Swim:2175:NO_BUILD_UP:5:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:10]
[GAIT:SWIM:Swim:2900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:SWIM:Slow Swim:3900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:SWIM:Creeping Swim:5900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:FLY:Maximum Flight Speed:225:10:3:675:50:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:50]
[GAIT:FLY:Faster Flight:450:5:3:675:10:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:20]
[GAIT:FLY:Fast Flight:675:NO_BUILD_UP:5:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:10]
[GAIT:FLY:Fly:900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:FLY:Slow Flight:1900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:FLY:Hover:2900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:WALK:Scramble:725:10:3:2175:50:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:50]
[GAIT:WALK:Faster Crawl:1450:5:3:2175:10:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:20]
[GAIT:WALK:Fast Crawl:2175:NO_BUILD_UP:5:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:10]
[GAIT:WALK:Crawl:2900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:WALK:Slow Crawl:5900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:WALK:Creep:8900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Scramble:225:10:3:675:50:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:50]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Faster Crawl:450:5:3:675:10:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:20]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Fast Crawl:675:NO_BUILD_UP:5:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:10]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Crawl:900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Slow Crawl:1900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Creep:2900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[DESCRIPTION:A gigantic snail composed of grime and filth. It has wings and it has a gaunt appearance. Beware its deadly spittle!]

[CREATURE:FORGOTTEN_BEAST_54]
[GENERATED]
[FEATURE_BEAST]
[ATTACK_TRIGGER:0:0:50000]
[NAME:forgotten beast:forgotten beasts:forgotten beast]
[CASTE_NAME:forgotten beast:forgotten beasts:forgotten beast]
[NO_GENDER]
[CARNIVORE]
[DIFFICULTY:10]
[NATURAL_SKILL:WRESTLING:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:BITE:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:MELEE_COMBAT:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:DODGING:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:SITUATIONAL_AWARENESS:6]
[AMPHIBIOUS]
[SWIMS_INNATE]
[NONAUSEA]
[NOEXERT]
[NO_DIZZINESS]
[NOPAIN]
[NOSTUN]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
[PETVALUE:2000]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[NOFEAR]
[NO_FEVERS]
[LARGE_PREDATOR]
[SPHERE:CAVERNS]
[SPHERE:THEFT]
[SPHERE:WATER]
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:10000000]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:20]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[TRAPAVOID]
[CREATURE_TILE:66]
[NO_THOUGHT_CENTER_FOR_MOVEMENT]
[BODY:RCP_BASIC_BODY_STANCE_WITH_HEAD_FLAG:RCP_SHELL]
[TISSUE:UNIFORM_TIS]
[TISSUE_NAME:tissue:NP]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:WATER]
[TISSUE_MAT_STATE:LIQUID]
[MUSCULAR]
[FUNCTIONAL]
[STRUCTURAL]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:UNIFORM_TIS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_HEAD_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RELSIZES]
[NOT_LIVING]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE]
[COLOR:1:0:1]
[NOBREATHE]
[EXTRAVISION]
[HOMEOTHERM:10040]
[THICKWEB]
[WEBIMMUNE]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SILK:SILK_TEMPLATE]
[WEBBER:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SILK]
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:RCP_MATERIAL_EMISSION]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Spray web]
[CDI:USAGE_HINT:ATTACK]
[CDI:MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SILK:WEB_SPRAY]
[CDI:TARGET:C:LINE_OF_SIGHT]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:C:5]
[CDI:MAX_TARGET_NUMBER:C:1]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:30]
[GAIT:SWIM:Maximum Swim Speed:725:10:3:2175:50:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:50]
[GAIT:SWIM:Faster Swim:1450:5:3:2175:10:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:20]
[GAIT:SWIM:Fast Swim:2175:NO_BUILD_UP:5:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:10]
[GAIT:SWIM:Swim:2900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:SWIM:Slow Swim:3900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:SWIM:Creeping Swim:5900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:WALK:Scramble:725:10:3:2175:50:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:50]
[GAIT:WALK:Faster Crawl:1450:5:3:2175:10:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:20]
[GAIT:WALK:Fast Crawl:2175:NO_BUILD_UP:5:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:10]
[GAIT:WALK:Crawl:2900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:WALK:Slow Crawl:5900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:WALK:Creep:8900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Scramble:225:10:3:675:50:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:50]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Faster Crawl:450:5:3:675:10:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:20]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Fast Crawl:675:NO_BUILD_UP:5:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:10]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Crawl:900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Slow Crawl:1900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Creep:2900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[DESCRIPTION:An enormous blob composed of water. It has an enormous shell and it squirms and fidgets. Beware its webs!]

[CREATURE:FORGOTTEN_BEAST_55]
[GENERATED]
[FEATURE_BEAST]
[ATTACK_TRIGGER:0:0:50000]
[NAME:forgotten beast:forgotten beasts:forgotten beast]
[CASTE_NAME:forgotten beast:forgotten beasts:forgotten beast]
[NO_GENDER]
[CARNIVORE]
[DIFFICULTY:10]
[NATURAL_SKILL:WRESTLING:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:BITE:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:MELEE_COMBAT:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:DODGING:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:SITUATIONAL_AWARENESS:6]
[AMPHIBIOUS]
[SWIMS_INNATE]
[NONAUSEA]
[NOEXERT]
[NO_DIZZINESS]
[NOPAIN]
[NOSTUN]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
[PETVALUE:2000]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[NOFEAR]
[NO_FEVERS]
[LARGE_PREDATOR]
[SPHERE:CAVERNS]
[SPHERE:DEPRAVITY]
[SPHERE:WATER]
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:10000000]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:20]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[TRAPAVOID]
[CREATURE_TILE:80]
[BODY:RCP_UPPER_BODY:RCP_LOWER_BODY:RCP_NECK:RCP_HEAD:RCP_TWO_PART_LEGS:RCP_TWO_WINGS:RCP_1_HEAD_HORN:RCP_4_TOES:RCP_3_EYES:RCP_LUNGS:RCP_HEART:RCP_GUTS:RCP_THROAT:RCP_SPINE:RCP_UPPER_SPINE:RCP_BRAIN:RCP_SKULL:RCP_MOUTH:RCP_TONGUE:RCP_TEETH:RCP_RIBS:RCP_3_EYELIDS:RCP_PROBOSCIS]
[FLIER]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS]
[REMOVE_MATERIAL:SKIN]
[REMOVE_MATERIAL:HAIR]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SCALE:SCALE_TEMPLATE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES]
[REMOVE_TISSUE:SKIN]
[REMOVE_TISSUE:HAIR]
[USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:SCALE:SCALE_TEMPLATE]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:HORN:HORN_TEMPLATE]
[USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:HORN:HORN_TEMPLATE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:SCALE:FAT:MUSCLE:BONE:CARTILAGE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_HEAD_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RIBCAGE_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RELSIZES]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SINEW:SINEW_TEMPLATE]
[TENDONS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
[LIGAMENTS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
[HAS_NERVES]
[HOMEOTHERM:10040]
[SELECT_MATERIAL:SCALE]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:CHOCOLATE]
[COLOR:4:0:1]
[SELECT_TISSUE_LAYER:HEART:BY_CATEGORY:HEART]
[PLUS_TISSUE_LAYER:SCALE:BY_CATEGORY:THROAT]
[TL_MAJOR_ARTERIES]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BLOOD:BLOOD_TEMPLATE]
[BLOOD:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD:LIQUID]
[CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
[ATTACK:KICK:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:STANCE]
[ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:kick:kicks]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:2:2]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK_FLAG_BAD_MULTIATTACK]
[ATTACK:SUCK:BODYPART:BY_CATEGORY:PROBOSCIS]
[ATTACK_SKILL:BITE]
[ATTACK_VERB:stab:stabs]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:5]
[ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:2:2]
[ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[SPECIALATTACK_SUCK_BLOOD:50:100]
[ATTACK:HORN:BODYPART:BY_CATEGORY:HORN]
[ATTACK_SKILL:BITE]
[ATTACK_VERB:gore:gores]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:5]
[ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:2:2]
[ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK:BITE:CHILD_BODYPART_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:BY_CATEGORY:TOOTH]
[ATTACK_SKILL:BITE]
[ATTACK_VERB:bite:bites]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:2:2]
[ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK_FLAG_CANLATCH]
[GAIT:SWIM:Maximum Swim Speed:725:10:3:2175:50:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:50]
[GAIT:SWIM:Faster Swim:1450:5:3:2175:10:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:20]
[GAIT:SWIM:Fast Swim:2175:NO_BUILD_UP:5:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:10]
[GAIT:SWIM:Swim:2900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:SWIM:Slow Swim:3900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:SWIM:Creeping Swim:5900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:FLY:Maximum Flight Speed:225:10:3:675:50:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:50]
[GAIT:FLY:Faster Flight:450:5:3:675:10:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:20]
[GAIT:FLY:Fast Flight:675:NO_BUILD_UP:5:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:10]
[GAIT:FLY:Fly:900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:FLY:Slow Flight:1900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:FLY:Hover:2900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:WALK:Fastest Walk:225:10:3:675:50:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:50]
[GAIT:WALK:Faster Walk:450:5:3:675:10:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:20]
[GAIT:WALK:Fast Walk:675:NO_BUILD_UP:5:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:10]
[GAIT:WALK:Walk:900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:WALK:Slow Walk:1900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:WALK:Slowest Walk:2900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Scramble:225:10:3:675:50:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:50]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Faster Crawl:450:5:3:675:10:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:20]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Fast Crawl:675:NO_BUILD_UP:5:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:10]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Crawl:900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Slow Crawl:1900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Creep:2900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[DESCRIPTION:A towering three-eyed pterosaur. It has a long, curving horn and it has a gaunt appearance. Its chocolate scales are jagged and overlapping. Beware its hunger for warm blood!]

[CREATURE:FORGOTTEN_BEAST_56]
[GENERATED]
[FEATURE_BEAST]
[ATTACK_TRIGGER:0:0:50000]
[NAME:forgotten beast:forgotten beasts:forgotten beast]
[CASTE_NAME:forgotten beast:forgotten beasts:forgotten beast]
[NO_GENDER]
[CARNIVORE]
[DIFFICULTY:10]
[NATURAL_SKILL:WRESTLING:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:BITE:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:MELEE_COMBAT:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:DODGING:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:SITUATIONAL_AWARENESS:6]
[AMPHIBIOUS]
[SWIMS_INNATE]
[NONAUSEA]
[NOEXERT]
[NO_DIZZINESS]
[NOPAIN]
[NOSTUN]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[PETVALUE:2000]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[NOFEAR]
[NO_FEVERS]
[LARGE_PREDATOR]
[SPHERE:CAVERNS]
[SPHERE:DISEASE]
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:10000000]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:20]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[TRAPAVOID]
[CREATURE_TILE:72]
[NO_THOUGHT_CENTER_FOR_MOVEMENT]
[BODY:RCP_UPPER_BODY:RCP_LOWER_BODY:RCP_NECK:RCP_HEAD:RCP_TWO_PART_ARMS:RCP_TWO_PART_LEGS:RCP_2_TAILS]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[EQUIPS]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:FLAME:FLAME_TEMPLATE]
[MAT_FIXED_TEMP:25000]
[TISSUE:UNIFORM_TIS]
[TISSUE_NAME:tissue:NP]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:FLAME]
[TISSUE_MAT_STATE:GAS]
[MUSCULAR]
[FUNCTIONAL]
[STRUCTURAL]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:UNIFORM_TIS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_HEAD_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RELSIZES]
[NOT_LIVING]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE]
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:RCP_MATERIAL_EMISSION]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Hurl fireball]
[CDI:USAGE_HINT:ATTACK]
[CDI:FLOW:FIREBALL]
[CDI:TARGET:C:LINE_OF_SIGHT]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:C:15]
[CDI:MAX_TARGET_NUMBER:C:2]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:30]
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:RCP_MATERIAL_EMISSION]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Spray jet of fire]
[CDI:USAGE_HINT:ATTACK]
[CDI:FLOW:FIREJET]
[CDI:TARGET:C:LINE_OF_SIGHT]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:C:5]
[CDI:MAX_TARGET_NUMBER:C:1]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:30]
[FIREIMMUNE_SUPER]
[ODOR_STRING:smoke]
[ODOR_LEVEL:90]
[COLOR:4:0:1]
[NOBREATHE]
[EXTRAVISION]
[FIXED_TEMP:25000]
[ATTACK:PUNCH:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:GRASP]
[ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:punch:punches]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:2:2]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK:KICK:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:STANCE]
[ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:kick:kicks]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:2:2]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK_FLAG_BAD_MULTIATTACK]
[GAIT:SWIM:Maximum Swim Speed:725:10:3:2175:50:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:50]
[GAIT:SWIM:Faster Swim:1450:5:3:2175:10:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:20]
[GAIT:SWIM:Fast Swim:2175:NO_BUILD_UP:5:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:10]
[GAIT:SWIM:Swim:2900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:SWIM:Slow Swim:3900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:SWIM:Creeping Swim:5900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:WALK:Sprint:225:10:3:675:50:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:50]
[GAIT:WALK:Run:450:5:3:675:10:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:20]
[GAIT:WALK:Jog:675:NO_BUILD_UP:5:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:10]
[GAIT:WALK:Walk:900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:WALK:Stroll:1900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:WALK:Creep:2900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Scramble:225:10:3:675:50:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:50]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Faster Crawl:450:5:3:675:10:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:20]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Fast Crawl:675:NO_BUILD_UP:5:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:10]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Crawl:900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Slow Crawl:1900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:CRAWL:Creep:2900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:CLIMB:Scramble:225:10:3:675:50:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:50]
[GAIT:CLIMB:Faster Climb:450:5:3:675:10:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:20]
[GAIT:CLIMB:Fast Climb:675:NO_BUILD_UP:5:LAYERS_SLOW:STRENGTH:AGILITY:STEALTH_SLOWS:10]
[GAIT:CLIMB:Climb:900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:CLIMB:Slow Climb:1900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[GAIT:CLIMB:Creep:2900:NO_BUILD_UP:0]
[DESCRIPTION:A great humanoid composed of flame. It has two short tails and it squirms and fidgets.]

}}
{{Creatures}}
{{Category|Megabeasts}}
{{Category|Trapavoid}}
{{Category|Building destroyer}}
{{Category|No Stun}}
{{Category|Flying}}
{{Category|Syndrome}}
{{Category|Webs}}
{{Category|Shell}}
[[ru:DF2012:Forgotten beast]]

River

2023-12-05T08:30:18Z

Sniper231996: /* Other important facts */

{{Quality|Exceptional}}
{{av}}
[[File:Hills river swamp.jpg|thumb|River flowing into the hills]]A '''river''' is a body of [[water]] flowing from the [[mountain]] springs towards an [[ocean]] or a [[lake]]. Rivers serve as a terrain feature and gameplay element, coming in a variety of sizes and types. Larger ones will impede movement and may serve as a natural defensive boundary, while [[brook]]s, being the smallest type of river, can be crossed safely without needing to [[swimming|swim]], risk of [[drowning]], or even getting one's feet wet. In hilly terrain, particularly with [[cliff]]s, [[waterfall]]s can be found. Rivers can be the lifeblood of a fortress, potentially providing a renewable source of water and wildlife for [[fishing]], [[hunting]] or danger when traveling near them. They can also [[freezing|freeze]].

== Overview ==
There are five different kinds of surface rivers: major rivers, rivers, minor rivers, streams and '''[[brook]]s'''. For most purposes, each kind will simply be referred to as rivers or brooks. The only differences between the first four types are their appearance on the world map, their width, and possibly their rate of flow.

=== River ===
Rivers are represented by dark blue {{Tile|≈|1:7:0}} and {{Tile|~|1:7:0}} [[water]] tiles stretching from one edge of the map to another, with banks bounded by [[ramp|downward slopes]] {{Tile|▼|1:7:1}}, or {{Tile|▒|3:7:1}} when frozen. Rivers come in a variety of sizes, from tiny brooks only three or four tiles wide, to major rivers spanning as wide as 40 tiles. If flow amounts are turned off in <code>[[d_init.txt]]</code>, river tiles will also be constantly blinking to indicate that the water has [[flow]]. Rivers are an effectively unlimited source of water, entering the map at the upstream end and leaving at the downstream end.

To determine which end of a river is downstream, you can carefully look at the ends of the river using {{k|k}}. The end that has multiple tiles of less than 7/7 water is the downstream end. (This strategy doesn't always work on freshly-generated maps, as the river can still be completely full of water.) Flow amounts can be enabled in [[d_init.txt]], which eliminates the need to use {{k|k}} but also removes flow indicators. A dwarfier method would be to [[unfortunate accident|kill something]], get its blood in the river, and observe the direction of the blood's movement.

Dwarves will not swim across rivers in fortress mode, regardless of their [[swimming]] skill, and unskilled dwarves that end up in a river can quickly drown in the current. Dwarves will only seek dry routes across rivers, such as a [[bridge]], [[floor]], or [[tunnel]].

As a [[biome]], there are six types of rivers, divided by climate and the salinity of the water (see table below). The biome greatly affects the creatures of the water and surrounding land. Additionally, rivers are more prone to having an [[aquifer]] close to the surface, and most riverbeds are made of layers of clay or sand.

{| {{prettytable}}
|- style="background:#dddddd"
! style="background:#aaaaaa"|
! '''Freshwater''' !! '''Brackish water''' !! '''Saltwater'''
|-
! style="background:#dddddd"| '''Temperate'''
| Temperate freshwater river || Temperate brackish river || Temperate saltwater river
|-
! style="background:#dddddd"| '''Tropical'''
| Tropical freshwater river || Tropical brackish river || Tropical saltwater river
|}

=== Brook ===
{{main|Brook}}
[[Brook]]s are the smallest type of river. They have a unique property that allows creatures (including [[wagon]]s) to travel across them without swimming, or even getting wet. Water and other fluids can fall through the surface of a brook, and [[fisherdwarf|fisherdwarves]] can stand on the surface of a brook to fish. Otherwise, brooks function like any other river.

=== Appearance on the regional map ===
[[File:Watersystems01.jpg|300px|thumb|Different sorts of rivers in action. ASCII mode.]]

On the regional map, there are five different classifications of rivers, identified by their appearance and the text displayed at the right side of the screen when they are selected in the local map view (major rivers, rivers, minor rivers, streams and brooks). Representing the connectivity hierarchy of how the river from small headwater brooks up to large river mouth emptying into the ocean. Brooks are not directly visible on the regional or world maps, but can still be seen in the local map and will also be indicated at the right if you select a tile containing a brook.

{| class="wikitable"
! Major rivers || {{Raw Tile|╦╩|1:0}}{{Raw Tile|╩|4:0}}
| They are the largest rivers, potentially exceeding 40 tiles in width. They usually have minor river tributaries and can often feed large [[lake]]s. The massive amount of flowing water found in a major river may have a negative effect on your [[FPS]].
|-
! Rivers || {{Raw Tile|┬┴|1:0}}{{Raw Tile|╦|6:0}}
| They usually have tributaries of minor rivers. They can often be over 10 tiles wide.
|-
! Minor rivers || {{Raw Tile|┬┴|1:1}}{{Raw Tile|┴|4:0}}
| They usually have streams as tributaries. They are usually between 7-10 tiles wide.
|-
! Streams || {{Raw Tile|┬┴|3:1}}{{Raw Tile|┬|6:0}}
| They often converge with other streams and have some brooks as tributaries. They tend to be 4-6 tiles wide.
|-
! Brooks ||
| only visible in the local map (not on the world map like the rest). They are the smallest flowing body of [[water]] that can be found in the game, being only 3-4 tiles wide. Brooks are very common - almost every tile around a stream or larger river will have a brook running through it.
|}

== Other important facts ==
* Rivers contain an unlimited amount of water and cannot be drained like [[murky pool]]s. They can, however, be [[dam]]med if you can ''temporarily'' drain part of them to 1/7 or less for long enough to construct [[wall]]s or install [[floodgate]]s. Despite being an unlimited source of water, river source tiles will only refill up to the level of the river's source - it will not overflow if you dam it up. This video demonstrates one way to drain and dam a river: [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-196-draininganddammingamajorriver-i]. Another way to dam a river is to direct [[magma]] into it, producing [[obsidian]] in the squares where it encounters water.
* Even if dammed, a dry riverbed will refill when it [[weather|rains]], similar to a [[murky pool]].
* A dammed river will cease to produce additional water once all of its tiles reach 7/7, even if the dam is subsequently opened, until the water level near the river's source drops below 7/7.
* After a river has been drained, the tiles will still appear as "river" when viewed. These appear to have no effect, but can be removed by [[floor]]ing over them or [[mining]]. If a construction is built on a river tile and removed, [[soil|furrowed]] soil will appear.
* Sometimes, the dwarves end up parking on the ice in cold regions, on arrival to a new settlement area. Needless to say, in places where ice can melt, this is quite dangerous and might result in a lot of [[fun]] when retrieving all the necessary stuff.
* If embarked on the source of a river, there will be a delta-looking feature that water flows '''from'''. i.e., the source tiles for the head of a river are not at the border of the map, but rather the network of 1-2 tile wide rivulets that converge into the river proper. If you wish to dam this at the source you will need to either go downstream far enough from the source tiles and dam as usual, or use a [[screw pump]] to pump out enough water to wall off the tile. Given the volume of water it outputs, this is difficult and can lead to [[Losing|FUN.]]
* This guide can teach you how to block one z level river. Repetition of the same process slowly one after another for deep rivers works out as well. Just that it requires quite some time. Here is the link to the guide:- https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3016032201

== Wildlife ==
=== Creatures ===
{| class="wikitable"
! rowspan="2"| Name
! rowspan="2"| Graphic
! colspan="3"| Temperate river !! colspan="3"| Tropical river
|-
! Freshwater !! Brackish !! Saltwater !! Freshwater !! Brackish !! Saltwater
|-
| {{Tile|A|2:0}} [[Alligator]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:alligator_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || || {{check}} || {{check}} ||
|-
| {{Tile|T|2:0}} [[Alligator snapping turtle]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:alligator_snapping_turtle_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|b|6:0}} [[Beaver]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:beaver_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|α|3:0}} [[Carp]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:carp_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || || || {{check}} || ||
|-
| {{Tile|t|2:0}} [[Common snapping turtle]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:snapping_turtle_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|H|7:0}} [[Hippo]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:hippo_sprite.png]]
| || || || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|g|6:0}} [[Longnose gar]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:longnose_gar_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|α|3:1}} [[Milkfish]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:milkfish_sprite.png]]
| || || || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|m|6:0}} [[Mink]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:mink_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|o|7:1}} [[Osprey]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:osprey_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|α|2:0}} [[Pike]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:pike_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|p|6:0}} [[Platypus]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:platypus_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|o|6:0}} [[River otter]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:river_otter_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|C|2:0}} [[Saltwater crocodile]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:saltwater_crocodile_sprite.png]]
| || || || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|~|0:1}} [[Sea lamprey]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:sea_lamprey_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|s|4:1}} [[Sponge]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:sponge_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|ò|7:0}} [[Stingray]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:stingray_sprite.png]]
| || || || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|α|6:0}} [[Sturgeon]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:sturgeon_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|α|3:1}} [[Tigerfish]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:tigerfish_sprite.png]]
| || || || {{check}} || ||
|}

'''In savage rivers:'''
{| class="wikitable"
! rowspan="2"| Name
! rowspan="2"| Graphic
! colspan="3"| Temperate river !! colspan="3"| Tropical river
|-
! Freshwater !! Brackish !! Saltwater !! Freshwater !! Brackish !! Saltwater
|-
| {{Tile|A|2:0}} [[Alligator man]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:alligator_man_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|b|6:0}} [[Beaver man]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:beaver_man_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|A|2:0}} [[Giant alligator]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:giant_alligator_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|B|6:0}} [[Giant beaver]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:giant_beaver_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|H|7:0}} [[Giant hippo]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:giant_hippo_sprite.png]]
| || || || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|M|6:0}} [[Giant mink]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:giant_mink_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|O|7:1}} [[Giant osprey]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:giant_osprey_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|P|6:0}} [[Giant platypus]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:giant_platypus_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|O|6:0}} [[Giant otter]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:giant_otter_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|C|2:0}} [[Giant saltwater crocodile]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:giant_saltwater_crocodile_sprite.png]]
| || || || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|T|2:0}} [[Giant snapping turtle]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:giant_snapping_turtle_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|S|4:1}} [[Giant sponge]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:giant_sponge_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|H|7:0}} [[Hippo man]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:hippo_man_sprite.png]]
| || || || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|m|6:0}} [[Mink man]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:mink_man_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|o|7:1}} [[Osprey man]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:osprey_man_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|p|6:0}} [[Platypus man]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:platypus_man_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|o|6:0}} [[Otter man]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:otter_man_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|C|2:0}} [[Saltwater crocodile man]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:Saltwater_crocodile_man_sprite.png]]
| || || || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|t|2:0}} [[Snapping turtle man]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:snapping_turtle_man_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|s|4:1}} [[Sponge man]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:sponge_man_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|}

=== Vermin ===
{{Translation
| dwarven = igër
| elvish = mimale
| goblin = öbtasp
| human = omba
}}
{| class="wikitable"
! rowspan="2"| Name
! rowspan="2"| Graphic
! colspan="3"| Temperate river !! colspan="3"| Tropical river
|-
! Freshwater !! Brackish !! Saltwater !! Freshwater !! Brackish !! Saltwater
|-
| {{Tile|α|6:0}} [[Banded knifefish]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:banded_knifefish_sprite.png]]
| || || || {{check}} || ||
|-
| {{Tile|~|3:0}} [[Brook lamprey]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:brook_lamprey_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|α|0:1}} [[Char]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:char_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || || || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|α|1:1}} [[Guppy]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:guppy_sprite.png]]
| || || || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|α|6:0}} [[Lungfish]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:lungfish_sprite.png]]
| || || || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|m|7:1}} [[Mussel]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:mussel_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}}
|-
| {{Tile|α|7:1}} [[Perch]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:perch_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || || || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|α|2:1}} [[Rainbow trout]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:rainbow_trout_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || || || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|α|2:0}} [[Sailfin molly]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:sailfin_molly_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|α|4:1}} [[Salmon]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:salmon_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|α|3:1}} [[Shad]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:shad_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || || ||
|-
| {{Tile|α|3:1}} [[Steelhead trout]]
| style="text-align:center;"|[[File:steelhead_trout_sprite.png]]
| {{check}} || {{check}} || {{check}} || || ||
|}

{{World|Biomes}}

{{Category|Map tiles}}
{{Category|Biomes}}

User talk:Lethosor

2023-12-05T08:17:09Z

Sniper231996: /* (Title here) */

{{User:Lethosor/header}}
{{Archive|
* [[/archive1|Archive 1 (February-August 2013)]]
* [[/archive2|Archive 2 (Sept. 2013 - May 2014)]]
}}
__TOC__
{{clear}}

==Bot requests==
<div style="" class="plainlinks">
[{{fullurl:User talk:Lethosor|action=edit&section=1&editintro={{urlencode:User:Lethosor/edit intro/bot}}}} '''Add a new request''']
</div>

=== Underpopulated categories ===

Many categories in the DF2014 namespace don't list some of the pages that have the category link. An empty edit on a page (well, any edit) will correct this, but only for that page. This sounds like a job for a bot. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] ([[User talk:VengefulDonut|talk]]) 19:00, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
:I'm pretty sure that's a cache problem, so I'll try rebuilding link tables on the server side and see if that helps (it would probably be a lot faster than sending a bot around to null-edit every page). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:41, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
::This has been fixed. The problem was that the server that actually runs the job queue was still using the old configuration (without the DF2014 namespace). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:17, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

== Diagram ==

Take a look over [[DF talk:diagram|here]]. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] ([[User talk:VengefulDonut|talk]]) 15:45, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

== Ceramic Industry page assistance. ==

(Message here) --[[User:DorfyDave|DorfyDave]] ([[User talk:DorfyDave|talk]]) 04:16, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the help with the ceramic industry stuff.

I see what you are doing with the thumbnail workflows on other pages, so if you would rather it be small and let the reader expand it, that would be fine.

I was thinking that the pages looked better with the intro section before the regular content, keeping it separate from the auto TOC / Header listed content, but if you prefer that everything follow the layered header format, that's fine.

:My primary concern was the wrapping caused by inserting the full-size flowchart next to a section. It looks like you've addressed that by splitting up the flowchart, which looks good to me. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:48, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

== Removing/restoring [[Main:Fruit]] ==

Not that I am protesting it, but why exactly did you remove and then restore the [[Main:Fruit]] page? Because to me, all that happened now is that the creation entry on the page's history is gone, which isn't really anything notable either.
--{{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|13:03|August 26, 2014}} 13:03, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
:I deleted it at first because I didn't realize AutoRedirect wasn't handling section redirects properly, then restored it when I noticed it was broken. That article's [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Fruit&action=history history] still shows your revision, so I'm not sure what you mean - is it missing from [[Special:RecentChanges]]? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:07, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
::The creation entry I was talking about was actually the first entry, and the entry that is now the only one was the second before you removed it. When I created the page I first had it directly redirect to [[cv:Tree#Fruit]], which after testing didn't work. I usually save the page when the preview doesn't show a red link and the link is correct, and after saving I test it, This time, however, the link in the preview was blue and correct, but actually following the redirect only led to [[cv:Tree]] instead of [[cv:Tree#Fruit]]. The entry you are seeing now is the result of fixing this by making it into a double redirect through [[cv:Fruit]].
:::It looks to me like your first edit was to [[DF2014:Fruit]] - when [[Main:Fruit]] didn't exist, it would have automatically redirected to [[DF2014:Fruit]], so it might have appeared to exist when it didn't. (The problem here is that I made AutoRedirect follow redirect chains internally, since Mediawiki's maximum-redirect setting is buggy, so a nonexistent [[Main:Fruit]] would actually redirect to what [[cv:Fruit]] redirects to - the problem is that it ignores sections at the moment, so section redirects will need to be manually created until I can fix that.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:18, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

== settings-manager ==

I don't know where to put it because I don't have a github account and don't know if you have a personal thread for your scripts like the others, but couldn't you add a TEXT mode entry in line 116 of your settings-manager script?
--[[Special:Contributions/78.250.50.116|78.250.50.116]] 04:40, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
:I originally excluded it because it only works on Linux, but I'll add it back for Linux users. Thanks! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:44, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

== Interesting glitch with redirects ==

I went to see what "Candy" was by going to a page named "Candy", and I found out that it meant Adamantine. But I saw that I got redirected to [[v0.34:Adamantine]], which shouldn't happen seeing as mainspace redirects should always go to the cv namespace. So I went back to fix it, and I saw that [[main:Candy]] redirected to [[main:Adamantine]], so I went there to fix it. But that page redirected properly to [[DF2014:Adamantine]]. This is where it gets interesting.

So when you go to [[main:Candy]], you get redirected to [[main:Adamantine]] which in turn redirects to [[DF2014:Adamantine]]. But - for some reason, you don't get sent to [[DF2014:Adamantine]], but to [[v0.34:Adamantine]]. Going to [[main:Adamantine]] in the first place redirects you to [[DF2014:Adamantine]] properly.

I have no idea how this happens, and since you maintain most of the wiki, I think you would be the right person to tell this to.
--{{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|13:42|November 01, 2014}} 13:42, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:My best guess is that the [[Main:Candy]] redirect is cached and still points to [[v0.34:Adamantine]]. Our [[DF:REDIR|new policy]] is to keep redirects in versioned namespaces, so feel free to tag any broken redirects (in the main namespace) that you find with {{tl|bad redirect}} and I'll delete them. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 14:48, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:I just saw a redlink on the exploratory tunnels page(redlink to [[DF2014:Break]]) and went to create it, when I discovered that the pages for Break existed for 23a and 40d, but not for 34.11 and 40.x. I went to check those to import content, and they turned out to be redirects. So I just redirected [[DF2014:Break]] to [[DF2014:On break]] and when I went to create additional redirects in the mainspace, I found that [[main:Break]] redirects to [[main:On break]] which redirects to [[cv:On break]]. But, again, it ultimately did not redirect to cv:On break but to v0.34:Break. I think that if it is indeed a cache problem we should rebuild redirect caches. {{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|12:08|November 02, 2014}}
:PS: Or just batch-delete all of this kind of redirects. {{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|12:09|November 02, 2014}}
:I don't like "bumping" this message like this, but since it's rather annoying, and ten days have been since I told you, almost all of these redirects are broken. Take a look at [[main:Aluminium]] for example, it goes to its 34.11 page. I think that it goes like this; when a page in the mainspace redirects to another page in the mainspace, which in turn goes to a cv space page, it goes to 0.34 instead of the current version. Going to the main>cv redirect initially does not cause this glitch. {{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|12:46|November 12, 2014}}
::It would be helpful if you could add {{tl|bad redirect}} to those pages (preferably before the "#REDIRECT" line) so I can delete them. I'm not sure what's causing the problem, but I'll see if I can override broken redirects with the AutoRedirect extension as well. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:18, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

== Migrated citations ==

As seen on [[DF2014:Dragonfire]], migrated citations can become confused, pointing to non-existent pages. I'm not sure how to fix it, but in general citations shouldn't automatically change what they are pointing at.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 18:26, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

== <nowiki>{{ArticleVersion}}</nowiki> bug ==

I just found another very strange bug regarding the articleversion template. The more research I did on it, the weirder it got. The bug is that when you are not logged in, and you visit a non-DF2014 page with an av template, the latest version shows as v0.40.16 instead of v0.40.18. {{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|10:17|November 25, 2014}}
PS: This bug does not replicate when you are logged in. {{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|10:19|November 25, 2014}}
:This is because pages are cached for logged-out users. You can refresh individual pages by adding "?action=purge" to the end of the URL (or possibly by null-editing them). It appears to occur in DF2014 pages as well - [[DF2014:Hemp]], for example. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:49, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

== Lost password request ==

I've forgotten my password. User: Bumber

:You don't seem to have an email address associated with your account. I sent a message to Bumber on the forums, assuming that's you. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:24, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks.

== Redirects ==

Thank you for the correction. I felt I might be doing it wrong but couldn't find an example of it done right to copy. Now I know. :) [[User:Volatar|Volatar]] ([[User talk:Volatar|talk]]) 16:02, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

== v0.42.05 raws update ==

Just a friendly reminder that the wiki raws need updated to pick up the [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Page_request/List&diff=222917&oldid=222913 new critters in v0.42.05]. It would also be nice if your bot could auto-create the new creature pages so we don't end up with [[back bear man]] and the like.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 23:05, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

:Quietust updated the extension, but I'm having trouble deploying the changes for some reason (which Emily can hopefully figure out). I don't know if I'll have enough time this/next week to write a script to create the new creature pages - if not, Quietust might have something still laying around from 0.34/0.40. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:45, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

== Page move reminder ==

[[DF2014:Box]] to [[DF2014:Container]] please. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 23:01, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

:Done. It took me a second to figure out what the issue was - I'm surprised Mediawiki wouldn't let you move a page over another one that was just a redirect. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:21, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks! [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:50, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

== v0.43.05 raws update ==

Just a friendly reminder that the wiki raws need updated to pick up the changes through v0.43.05.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:48, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

:Done. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:43, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

== Multiple redirects leads to incorrect namespace ==

Discussion here: [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Centralized_Discussion#Solution_for_this]] [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 10:49, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

== Vandalism ==

We had an attack on August 3rd. [[Talk:Main Page (fix plz)]] ‎needs moved back to Talk:Main Page, and the rest of [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Special:Contributions/Etihand the vandal's handiwork] can just be deleted. I can't think of any legitimate reason a user would need to move Talk:Main Page, so it should probably be move-locked to prevent future hijacks.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 15:53, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

:It should be cleaned up now. Sorry for the delay there. [[Main Page]] was already move-protected, but apparently that didn't apply to the talk page, so both should be move-protected now too. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:29, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

== Sorry, I need a password reset ==

I just logged in, saw the post about passwords needing to be changed. (Feeling all smart since I just setup a password manager) I updated my password, only to realize I didn't save the new password correctly in the manager. I tried to reset it but the wiki had a note saying to contact you since it can't do outbound email right now.

My user name is [[Frobnic8]].

My most notable contribution here are the PDF versions of the old Bronzemurder illustration by Tim Denee: [[Bronzemurder]]

The files are still hosted at my website. To prove it's me, I've also left you a note at http://eldritch.org/erskin/temp/df_wiki.txt

Sorry for the hassle, but if you could set me a temporary password or send me a link to a password reset to the associated email address for the account, that'd be awesome.

Thanks!

--[[Special:Contributions/70.163.4.102|70.163.4.102]] 15:40, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

:Done —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:59, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

::Thanks! --[[User:Frobnic8|Frobnic8]] ([[User talk:Frobnic8|talk]]) 02:51, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

== Password reset ==

I could have sworn I did this already, but now there's no sign of my edit here. Dunno what happened to it. Can I please get a password reset for user Urist McDorf. I believe the email info associated is still good (j*y@y*m). Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/108.49.199.220|108.49.199.220]] 06:56, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

== Totally failed to make an account ==

Really think I did everything right.

The Captcha app you are using says it "shutdown" on 3-31-2018 so i'm wondering if that's the issue. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:216.201.251.142|216.201.251.142]]

:Yeah, we know about it. Emi and Briess are working on some upgrades, and we'll try to upgrade the captcha once it's done. In the meantime, you can PM me on the forums (or email me at gmail.com) and I think I can set up an account for you. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:41, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

== Chemist Page Quality Rating ==

The quality rating of the [[chemist]] page is listed as *Superior*, despite being a stub. I can't even decrease the quality down to +Fine+ using the rating script.
I added the memory attribute as stated by Toady's recent FotF reply, and I'll insert the relevant [[topics]] for the skill, but there's probably a lot more work to be done.
--[[User:Bumber|Bumber]] ([[User talk:Bumber|talk]]) 06:39, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

:The "override" link [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Chemist&action=history worked for me]. You have to click on the rating at the top that you want to select, then submit. The calculated score is unreliable, to say the least. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

::I couldn't figure out how the override worked and just assumed it was an admin thing. Didn't realize you had to click one of the quality options at the top. —[[User:Bumber|Bumber]] ([[User talk:Bumber|talk]]) 22:18, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

== [Proposition] - Wiki preview popups ==

Hi there.

I've read quite a bit of wikipedia these last few days (the real wikipedia website), and I've come to use their preview feature quite a few times.
In case you don't know, the preview is a little JS pop-up that shows an image and some text when you hover a link.
So, you get a rough idea of what the thing is, and you don't have to load the full page (you can still if you click the link).

This feature is not in DF wiki, and I was thinking maybe it could be, as it greatly increase readability (since you don't have to open a new page, read the first few lines, go back, and waste time figuring out where you were; for every topic you're unaware of).

I'm not sure whether I should ask you, or Briess or anyone, but since you've made quite some wiki Extensions, I'll ask anyway.

So, do you think it could be a viable idea to turn this feature on ?

Here's a mediawiki tutorial on how to set this up, just in case :
[https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Popups]

Cheers ! =D
- Spriggans
Aug, 17 2018

:It does sound useful, but it claims to require MediaWiki 1.25+, so it'll probably have to wait until we finish upgrading. There are instructions for 1.24 or earlier in the article, though - I'm not sure how far back "or earlier" includes. The two extensions it depends on, TextExtracts and PageImages, require 1.23+ and 1.25+ respectively, so it's unlikely that it'll work on our current (pre-upgrade) setup.
:(I am a good person to ask, by the way, and <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> is probably a more convenient way to sign comments.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:14, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

== Aesthetically Pleasing Things ==

I know I posted this before but... do I have your permission to spice up some of the templates of tables? I could make some look better and "cleaner" than they do now. Also, are there any plans to change the default look of the wiki? I don't mean this in a nasty way, white with black text is pretty... generic. - [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 14:20, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

== Auto-Welcome ==

It looks like your bot is automatically welcoming editors. Unfortunately, due to the nature of rotating IP addresses, it appears your bot has [//www.dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Special:Contributions/LethosorBot welcomed one anonymous user] 7 times in the last 5 days. Perhaps it would be best to restrict auto-welcoming to non-IP users?--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 21:55, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
:Yeah, that's the AutoWelcomeUser extension (just set up to attribute edits to my bot). I definitely agree that it should be changed, and I'll look into it. Fun fact: this was enabled on the old wiki, but I had written it for a ''slightly'' newer Mediawiki version, so I had forgotten about it since it didn't actually work until we upgraded. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:37, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
:I think this is fixed now. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:57, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

== On "Acceptable" Commas ==

Regarding [//www.dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:World_generation&curid=32663&diff=245045&oldid=245044 this edit]:

Per the [//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style Wikipedia Manual of Style] (referenced as [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#S|Rule S]]): "Where more than one style is acceptable under MoS, editors should not change an article from one of those styles to another without a good reason."

So, while that comma is indeed "acceptable" (or optional), editing to add that optional comma is not. I intentionally did not put a comma there when I added that sentence, and I believe my punctuational preference is at least as valid as ‎Silverwing235's.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 23:12, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

:I'm not convinced that comma is optional, but I didn't realize you had added that sentence (I thought it was part of the original quote from Toady before your changes, so I was mistakenly applying rule S there as well). Apologies, and it's your call as to what to do there. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:21, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

== Embark points ==

There's no page explaining embark points in-depth; can I make such a page? Or at least add it to the embark page? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:39, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
: I'd add it to the embark page since I'm not sure it warrants a separate page unless it's a ''lot'' of detail (i.e. more than the current embark page). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:43, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
:: With what I have planned, there's a ton of things I can go over which can fill a page. I can make a "workbench"/fake page and you can tell me if it's worthy or not. Also, is it possible to put things in "collapsable/expandable" tables to not badly stretch out pages? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 04:14, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
:: Sorry, one more thing. You know the "Urist likes [something] for their [something]."? Are these made up on the spot or is that info taken directly from somewhere? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 04:59, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
::: I'm not sure how much detail you can go into about just embark points, but sure, feel free to make a test page if you like and I can provide some input. I wouldn't put things in collapsible tables just because of page length, because pretty much no other page does that (except for some things that aren't really part of the content of a page, like nav boxes and raws). If you're referring to things like "Urist likes [creature]" from pages like [[DF2014:Cat]], those are generated from the raws. I'm not sure if that appears on any other types of pages. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:30, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

==Creature font==
Are you alright if I change the font of the letters in the creature list? Sorry to say this but that font is kinda ugly. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 01:40, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
:Are you talking about [[DF2014:Creature]] or something else? I personally think that page looks fine, but what does it look like on your end? It might be some cross-browser issue that we can try to sort out. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:56, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
::Yes I do mean that DF2014:Creature page. The font of the letters that resemble the creatures are this ugly "Times New Roman"-esque font that looks like an eyesore to me. It could be a much smoother looking font. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:55, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
:::I noticed the font looks ugly on Firefox and Edge but not in the Tor Browser. So yeah, there's a weird browser thing going on and I don't know how to fix things for specific browsers on wiki's... -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 20:45, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
::::I'm guessing you don't have the "Century" font installed, or accessible in those browsers for some reason. For reference, [https://i.imgur.com/wD6QMoG.png here] is what it looks like for me, definitely not Times. I'll see if it can be standardized. Does {{Raw Tile|c|6:0}} look ok to you? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:33, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::At some point in the possibly-recent past, those letters looked the same for me as it did you, but one day it just changed to the uglier font. Also, it's impossible to use the "Upload newer version of this file" function, as that always gives weird errors: Could not read or write file "mwstore://local-backend/local-public/6/6c/Biome_evil.png" due to insufficient permissions or missing directories/containers. I'm assuming I don't have access to do that? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 03:07, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
::::::I figured out the setting that controlled the font, it's the "Allow pages to choose their own fonts, instead of your selections above" choice, but turning this option off can spoil the fonts everywhere else on other sites. There's something about (my) Firefox that's not recognizing the Century font, even though I have it. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 03:36, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::::Yeah, not sure it's worth working around browser settings. Does the {{Raw Tile|c|6:0}} from above look ok to you or the same as the one on the creatures page? Also, that error is definitely not intentional; I'll look into it. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:57, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
::::::::The C there looks alright. Creature tile lists on other pages look fine as it's using the "Tile" template, so maybe something's wrong with the template being used in the creature page. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 12:55, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::It's a custom template being used for those tables that specifies the font itself. I changed the font to fall back to the ones that {{tl|Tile}} uses. Does it look ok now? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:56, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::It does not. But when I use a different computer, it's fine there (still on Firefox). Yeah, I can't figure this out. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 07:54, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
{{od|10}}
I've cleared the cache on the server side (I don't remember if I did that before). If that still doesn't help, maybe clearing your browser's cache would help? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:29, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
::Well, I cleared 1GB worth of data, but that didn't fix the issue? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 03:14, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

== BREAKING NEWS ==

Here comes Supernerd... the coolest and greatest editor ever on [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki]]. --[[User:Supernerd|Supernerd]] ([[User talk:Supernerd|talk]]) 10:47, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

== Proposal to translate the Wiki into Spanish ==

Good I am an expert player in the game and I would like to translate the wiki to help the Spanish community in this great game.
Should I translate it as I could?.
Here's my email for the answer: cheekonobreeko@gmail.com

== Just signal boosting on someone else's behalf... ==

...apparently a researcher with [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174850.0 research] on [[book]]s got themselves [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175133.0 locked out of the lab]. Any support for this?
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:02, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

== Minor server-side issues... ==

1. Broken(404) HTML links [[Quotes|here]].

2. Creature [[Giant earthworm|variation]] needs to be added [[Worm|here]].
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 11:09, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

:These aren't server-side issues - they can be fixed by editing the pages. In the first case, the forums moved from bay12games.com/forums to bay12forums.com/smf (I'm not sure when that happened, or if there used to be a redirect, but I would recommend {{tl|cite forum}} to make them future-proof). The second issue you pointed out happens when creature variations don't follow the typical naming pattern, but you can override the variations that the templates display. See [[blue jay]], [[bluejay man]], and [[giant bluejay]] for examples, and feel free to let me know if you have any questions about those templates. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 06:30, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
:Update: looks like there's also {{tl|forum link}} if you prefer to keep the text that the links currently use (for #1). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 06:33, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

== can't login... user:garrieirons ==

yeah I tried all the things and posted on the forum.

any advice on how to get a password reset?

https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/User:GarrieIrons

Sorry if you're not an admin.

Cheers,
Garrie

Symptom:
When I click the reset password link, and enter my user name (GarrieIrons) it tells me:
'''A password reset email has already been sent, within the last 24 hours. To prevent abuse, only one password reset email will be sent per 24 hours.'''

Cheers again.
G

:Ok, so it sounds like you already requested a password reset - did you get an email? It should have come from do-not-reply@dwarffortresswiki.org (make sure it didn't get sent to your spam folder). If you don't have access to the email address you registered with anymore, I can try to reset it some other way. Also, where did you post on the forums? I didn't see anything from you on the wiki board. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:36, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
::To be clear, every password reset has resulted in the message above, but, no email. Can you tell me is it going to a hotmail, or a gmail address? If not, I'm stumped and I'll start a different account?
::Also...ok I looked at threads I guess. I coulda sworn at some time in the past I asked about this on the forum but I'm not finding it (only the thread I thought I responded to).
::G
:::OK I found a PM thread on the forum, from ages ago, referring me to you...but I'd never followed up... 🤦‍♂️
:::G.
:::Looks like your username at hotmail.com - do you still have access to that? I just sent you a test email from the wiki, so let me know if that goes through. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:24, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

== Weirdness ensues... ==

...Alright, maybe not, but then again...
[[Interaction_examples|this page]] is fine in Search, but spews redlinkery when linked to as if Ebola-infected - very puzzling.
---[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 21:16, 7 March 2020 (UTC) EDIT: And the mystery deepens, because apparently one has to be [[DF2014:Interaction_examples|very specific]] about phrasing...downright incantational,really...in order to get a clear result with this.

:If you're in a versioned namespace (like DF2014), links will be within that namespace by default; otherwise, they will use the main namespace. Looks like a [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Interaction_examples&action=history redirect was created] in this case and both of those links seem to work now. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:56, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

== Obok Meatgod ==

Hey Lethesor, thanks for all the work you do for DFhack. I have a favour to ask. I was using the "random page" feature and I stumbled upon [[Obok Meatgod|this article]]. The article is about an adventure mode game from the Bay12 forums where some dude modded genitals into his game so he could [do some really vile stuff]. I don't mean to bug ''you'' about it, but I'm getting an internal error when I try to start a talk page on the article. Basically, can you delete this article? I'm all for some good shock humour, and I know DF stories can get pretty brutal, but this doesn't really seem like it's supposed to be funny. The forum page it links back to just reads like some edge-lord's fanfic power fantasy. Maybe I'm mistaken and this ''is'' relevant to DF, but if not, mind doing me a favour and just purging it from the wiki?
--[[Special:Contributions/130.211.1.83|130.211.1.83]] 00:33, 2 April 2020 (UTC) Jon
:I did a bit of research - given that it was deleted from Bay12 and DFFD, I think I'll follow suit and delete it from here too. (It's not permanent here - an admin could always get it back.) Thanks for bringing it to my attention. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:24, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::Thanks Lethesor! [[Special:Contributions/35.191.8.35|35.191.8.35]] 17:07, 2 April 2020 (UTC) Jon

== Regarding a certain subst tag: ==

(Stop me if I miss anything, please.)

IIRC, its a since-deprecated holdover of some kind of Wikipedian affiliation, that is pretty much purge-on-sight when found in art licensing around here. The important question is, how to proceed, if at all, when evidence is discovered of apparent holdouts of that sort [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?search=subst%3A&title=Special%3ASearch&go=Go further afield], outside the verified-for-deletion parameters? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 13:45, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

:I suggest [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Substitution MediaWiki's documentation] for information on what subst does. It's not specifically something that came from Wikipedia. One caveat is that if the template being substituted didn't exist when the page was saved, the subst: won't get replaced until you save the page again. However, in this case, it looks like I [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Licenses&diff=prev&oldid=249061 removed] the subst: part from where these templates were being used, so yes, on image pages, removing the "subst: prefix is fine.
:From the search results you linked, a lot of the subst occurrences appear to be in [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Wikitext_examples#HTML_tags HTML comments], so they won't get substituted when the page is saved. They also won't be displayed to readers, though. I suspect that's either stuff left over from version migrations or moving things to templates. I wouldn't put too much effort into dealing with those, unless you find something on a current-version page (in which case I'd say move things out of the comment if they're relevant or delete them if they're obsolete). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:06, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

== Lost password/email request ==

User: DDR
I've lost the email and password I apparently used to set up my account on this wiki, over a decade ago.

I'm [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=20574 DDR on the forum], which I still have my login for… and the mantis bugtracker, and DFFD.

Thank you. Sorry for the trouble.

:Sent a PM on the forums. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:21, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

== Further comment ==

It's hard to continue to [[wikipedia:WP:AGF|assume good faith]] in [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk%3ASilverwing235&type=revision&diff=256707&oldid=256705 this case], when the user in question tries to bury discussion of their behavior. Obviously that tactic isn't very effective, but it's a far cry from the openness and transparency required for the wiki to function as a collaborative project. Anyway, I firmly believe in [[wikipedia:WP:AAGF|WP:AAGF]] as a part of [[wikipedia:WP:CIVIL|WP:CIVIL]], which is part of the point I tried to raise in that discussion (which was then ''erased''). I'm linking these policies not because I think you're unfamiliar, but because I want to be clear on where I'm coming from. '''—'''[[User:Sriefmadsakzro|'''οɼѕаk''']] 17:48, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

:We don't have many of our own policies on things like this, but I'll take a look at the ones you linked since I'm not very familiar with them, particularly AAGF. It occurs to me that some of my comments may have come across as not following AAGF, and I apologize for that - I was (and still am) trying to follow AGF on my end, but it is challenging in this situation. I didn't intend to imply that you were not. As for the talk page edits, [[wikipedia:WP:OWNTALK|WP:OWNTALK]] seems to match my thoughts on the matter. Silverwing235's comment appears (to me) to be a more explicit acknowledgement of the criticism you raised, rather than an implicit acknowledgement by just removing your comment. I think your criticism was understood, in any case. (I do plan to respond to the AIV discussion, but am not sure how best to do that yet. In any case, I appreciate your concern for the wiki, and would like to find a solution that's acceptable to everyone involved.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:30, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

::A few phrases in my comments below are bolded—it's really just to emphasize structure, not to alter tone.'''—'''[[User:Sriefmadsakzro|'''οɼѕаk''']] 22:39, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
::---
::I actually wasn't talking about you when I referred to AAGF and my comment (and its erasure). I meant that Silverwing235 has—on this occasion and others—assumed that other editors are ''not engaging'' in good faith, and also that they are ''not assuming'' good faith (as when Silverwing235 referred to me as a “saboteur”); and that Silverwing235's own actions (''immediate'' removal of comments in ongoing discussions from their talk page—I believe this argument stands irrespective of [[wikipedia:OWNTALK|OWNTALK]]) make it hard to ''continue'' to assume good faith on their part.
::And, related to that: I have a hard time parsing many of Silverwing235's comments throughout. They're often vague and overcooked to the point of obscurity. There's very little there—even after the comment removal—that acknowledges the existence of a dispute over either past or ongoing behaviors, let alone the need for specific behaviors to change (let alone ''why'' those behaviors are wrong, or ''how'' those behaviors should change). Where there ''is'', there is also language implying that the issue is really with ''other'' editors and ''their'' disagreement—as if other editors are wrong to raise an issue in the first place. But as Silverwing235's edit summaries (and, incidentally, User+Talk comments) have repeatedly implied, they edit things to suit their personal tastes, ''not'' necessarily to correct mistakes (which they sometimes ''assert'' they are doing, but as has been seen, they frequently are not).
::---
::Another example of the general problem raised in AIV popped up yesterday: while reviewing a substantial [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Climate&curid=31137&diff=256715&oldid=247968 IP edit] (which, to me, looked good), I noticed that the edits immediately prior to it were Silverwing235's, made in late 2019 (soon after their dispute with Loci had ended in Loci's departure). And I quickly saw that [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014%3AClimate&type=revision&diff=247966&oldid=247965 this edit] was again, apparently, a “stylistic” change which Silverwing235 may honestly have believed necessary (for their own reasons), but which was [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Climate&diff=prev&oldid=256717 actually erroneous]. This sort of edit is partially why I cited IDHT and CIR (which, ''together'', are relevant here, I think) in the [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Administrative_intervention_against_vandalism&oldid=256704 AIV discussion].
::And although I can understand why Voliol might have gotten the contrary impression in the AIV discussion, I'm not advocating a high bar for entry, here. I'm saying that if '''an editor has been told to avoid imposing their own judgment where they cannot articulate a rationale''' (such as when deciding whether [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/User_talk:Silverwing235#Disruptive_Editing commas] need to be inserted before every occurence of [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Justice&diff=prev&oldid=256609 “if”] and “as”; whether a pair of parentheses should be [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Troubleshooting&diff=prev&oldid=256503 replaced] with an approximation to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#Em_dash some other punctuation]; whether “he” and “she” should be [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Justice&diff=prev&oldid=256638 replaced], or [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Justice&diff=prev&oldid=256641 eliminated], or simply [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Silverwing235&diff=247445&oldid=247317 left alone] where they already occur; or whether [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Fairy&diff=prev&oldid=256548 miscellaneous comments oblique to the rest of an article] are necessary or even appropriate), as Silverwing235 has, '''but they continue to do so''', then that presents a problem related to both judgment and behavior (hence IDHT, tangential to CIR).
::---
::Now, I hate to have these two discussions at the same time, but at this point, it would be counterproductive to fork it, so: I see that Silverwing235 has actually objected to the ''whole AIV discussion'' on the basis that they do not believe DE constitutes vandalism (which obviously it does not, in general). But as I acknowledged in my first contribution there, the prior AIV thread seemed to be the most appropriate place to make my comments due to the discussion which showed this user has faced similar criticism before. And, as I mentioned both above and in AIV, there is a pattern of civility issues which existed at least as early as that AIV thread. In particular, their [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/User_talk:Loci#Discussion_in.2C_supposedly.2C_proper_context... responses] to criticism from Loci and in this case have been a mixture of aggressive and [[wikipedia:WP:INDCRIT|passive-aggressive]]. And again, it's hard to assume good faith when critical comments are removed ''immediately'' and without either '''a discussion''' or a '''clear''' and '''substantial''' '''acknowledgment''' that those comments referred to an ongoing pattern of behavior that must change (change ''what'', change ''how'', change ''why''). I.e., yes, users control their own talk pages, but that doesn't prevent their changes from being interpreted one way or another; and in this case, it's hard not to interpret Silverwing235's changes as ''avoiding the issue''. I understand their stated desire to avoid content which [[wikipedia:WP:MASTODON|affects them emotionally]], but this is about conduct as much as it is about content.
::---
::The only reason I've raised this is to avoid continued unease. I don't like writing about disputes, and I prefer to think of the wiki community as inclusive rather than exclusive. But again, it's harder to want to edit if this behavior—not just from Silverwing235, but from ''any'' editor—is unconstrained except by laborious trial and error (a huge time ''and energy'' suck, when you consider putting up with breaks from CIVIL). And I'm not alone in this (which I mention only to emphasize that this is not personal—and I'm ''not'' invoking a silent majority, whether one exists or not, and ultimately, it's not just about this one editor).
::---
::In any case, I appreciate your participation in the matter and in conveying suggestions about specific edits to this editor.
::'''—'''[[User:Sriefmadsakzro|'''οɼѕаk''']] 22:39, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Point one: Yes, the notion about 'a more explicit acknowledgement' was accurate. A personal policy that I came up with re my talk page: 'If it would cause me significant emotional distress, either immediately or at any time during a review of the content, (aka: 'Nope, not having ''that'' around, causing trouble') it gets removed. If, IMHO, the removal itself would raise questions (as it appears to have done in this case) it will at least get a hopefully emotionally-neutral summary and acknowledgement of the thing that caused my upset to begin with. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 11:27, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

== Redirect ==

Hello. I noticed in the recent changes you reverted the edit on [[Textile Industry]], and I realized that my edit on [[Expedition Leader]] falls in the same category. The problem is that, as long as they exist, those pages will always appear on autocomplete, and they won't redirect properly if left as is. So I propose that until a decision is made for them to be deleted, that they be allowed to redirect properly to not confuse people who find them through autocomplete, like me. --[[User:Lurker|Lurker]] ([[User talk:Lurker|talk]]) 20:51, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

:The underlying cause here is a Mediawiki bug with double redirects, discussed in detail at [[DF:REDIR]]'s talk page. Making ''any'' sort of edit to the first page in the chain will fix broken double redirects, so even though I reverted your edit, [[Textile Industry]] redirects correctly now, even from the search bar. The other important point is that you need to use "cv" for the namespace in redirect targets - hardcoding a specific version like "DF2014" will have the wrong behavior when we add a new namespace. In this case, I have deleted the page you edited, since [[Expedition leader]] (lowercase L) already exists and turns up in search results (and follows [[DF:Rule N]]). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:16, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
::Very well. Thank you for your time. --[[User:Lurker|Lurker]] ([[User talk:Lurker|talk]]) 21:22, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
:::I should clarify: you're welcome to fix redirects like this that you notice, as long as you use "cv" (and there's a reminder that appears above the edit box when editing pages in the main namespace, in case that's useful). If you notice redirects whose only difference is capitalization, feel free to tag them for deletion with {{tl|delete}} and I can handle them. It occurs to me now that [[Textile Industry]] is another example of that. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:26, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

== Drastic error in judgement ensues.. ==

Derped by starting [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014_Talk:Block this up], in a way it turned out I rather shouldn't have - mind cleaning up? Thanks. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 19:43, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
:I'm not sure - what are you asking me to do? I'm hesitant to remove a discussion entirely, but if it's redundant to one on another talk page, I suppose I could archive it. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:24, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

...Yeah, archival was what I meant - one is always slightly frazzled when caught prepping to sign off for the night. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 09:49, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

== Random/cv ==

Not that I want more clutter, but what do you think about putting a [[Special:Random/cv]] link in the sidebar? '''—'''[[User:Sriefmadsakzro|'''οɼѕаk''']] 16:24, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

:Do you always want that there, or just in the current version's namespace? For reference, there are custom links added in some namespaces already, like [[Special:Random/Masterwork]] on [[Masterwork:Orc]], so a fourth "random" link on that sidebar could add some clutter. I would lean towards doing this just for versioned pages, but I'm not sure what you think is best. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:55, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

::I don't know. As I said, I'm also not interested in more clutter. Personally, I've frequently been using a bookmark to random/cv just to get a sense of what's on the wiki these days (since I've been “away”/uninvolved). Obviously I don't think that's a good reason for the wiki to change anything, though. When I wrote this on your talk page, my thinking was this: if I'm a new player (or a former one), and I want to know ''what there is'' in this huge game that I don't already know everything about, maybe I'll go to the wiki and click "random page" a few times to satisfy my curiosity. I can always click it again if I end up on something in the Masterwork: namespace (or, if it's in v0.31 etc., just click the link in the Av template). But I'll have to do that ''most'' of the time, since articles in non-cv namespaces outnumber articles in cv. (Right?) I.e., I think my suggestion is only really relevant (at least from the point-of-view of my reasons for bringing it up at all) on the landing/main page. I'm ''not'' attached to it enough to say it should go everywhere. If there's no convenient way to exclude it from pages where there are already namespace-specific random links in the sidebar, then I'm not about to suggest anyone should spend their limited time on the planet worrying about it after all.
::'''—'''[[User:Sriefmadsakzro|'''οɼѕаk''']] 18:54, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

:::[https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgContentNamespaces This Mediawiki setting] came to mind as a potential easy way to exclude certain namespaces from [[Special:Random]] by default, but unfortunately it also affects some other special pages that we may not want to change. I could probably update our custom sidebar logic (which I believe is in [[mw:common.js]]) but it likely won't be a high priority. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:50, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

== Handling "!!science!!"-style additions ==

Sorry to repeatedly bring things to you—I don't really know who does what here now, or if there's a discussion board somewhere this belongs on (other than the talk page for just one of the related articles). Could you take a look at [[DF2014_Talk:Stress#SalfordSal_and_0.47.05|this discussion]]? As I mention there, there are a couple of other edits by that IP user at around the same time that (at a glance) look like they are probably similar. In the case of [[stress]], at least, the content of the article prior to the additions is now buried under a single user's experimental results for a game version one year out-of-date.
'''—'''[[User:Sriefmadsakzro|'''οɼѕаk''']] 18:36, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

:I left a comment on the article's talk page. The timing seemed to line up with [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175214.msg8252465#msg8252465] closely enough that I also left a comment there. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:25, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

== A minor but rather elegant Gordian Knot of an error... ==

Is there any chance of fixing an [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Noise&curid=31900&diff=257273&oldid=250713| accidental red link] in the diff explanation, created when attempting to directly cite the reason's source, of an anonymous comment on the article's talk page, by citing the page instead of (obviously) the comment? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 17:06, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
:Edit summaries can't be changed, unfortunately. In case you were unaware, they can be previewed when you click the "Show preview" button (alternatively, just mentioning "the talk page" for something like this would be fine too). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:12, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

== Minor matter afoot.... ==

As it happens, I seem to have [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:House&oldid=257129| edited myself into a corner] re proper formatting on the Towers of Bologna reference over here. Some help, please?
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 19:51, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

:If you meant the "Towers of Bologna" link, you can use the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Pipe_trick pipe trick] for that (which I did in [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:House&diff=prev&oldid=258665]). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:09, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

== Technical issues ==

Found a bare wire in the wall, somewhat beyond my skill level on account of it leading to, as it were, a broken widget - (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Orientation&curid=40938&diff=258997&oldid=258309) analysis, if you please? Thanks.
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 09:51, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

== Issue with #rreplace ==

Hi Lethosor. I want to bring up a possible MediaWiki Extension-related issue: when there's a lot of #rreplace functions (part of [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:RegexFunctions|RegexFunctions]]) on a page, they start breaking and outputting blank after the first hundred instances. I've experimented with a few different regex patterns and replacements, and this number doesn't seem to change. I currently have an [[User:Doorkeeper/sandbox|example on my sandbox]]. Checking the HTML source shows nothing out of the ordinary on the newpp report.

On the [[creature token]] page, there's more than a hundred {{t|token}}s being used (e.g. {{token|GOOD|c}}); they start linking to the Main Page after a little before section O. This is because {{t|token}} uses #rreplace as a method to remove spaces in the {{{2}}} or 'token type' parameter, so that the #switch function can still match strings in case an editor leaves a space in. However since #rreplace stops working after the first hundred (returns blank), the #switch matching fails and defaults, which is currently set to Main Page (the default page was originally [[Creature]]; it should probably default to a more relevant page). But yeah, noticing misdirecting {{t|token}} links on that page is what led me to #rreplace.

Removing #rreplace from the template will fix the issue (it'll lose its space-checking ability, which doesn't seem too big a deal), but I was wondering if it's possible to fix/update #rreplace or RegexFunctions itself, since this seems like a severe limitation. I don't know if #rreplace is used on other templates or if they're used a lot anywhere else on the wiki. It may not even be a problem with the extension. Either way, I thought it would be best to bring up this issue to you (or to another admin reading this). – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 05:45, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

:It's a deliberate limitation - we have the ``wgRegexFunctionsPerPage`` config variable set to 100 (up from the default of 10). I don't know exactly what performance impact would come from increasing it. Version 2 of the extension seems to have [https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-RegexFunctions/commit/7b56f126fdb2c88375e77bca9cc7bf55eaefb3af removed all config variables], so maybe it is fine to just upgrade the extension. You can see the old documentation [https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Extension:RegexFunctions&oldid=3676687 here]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:10, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
:I also see you've made a fair number of changes to the token template. Should [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:Token/guess_type&diff=259366&oldid=259363] be reverted? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:10, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

::If regex functions are just parser functions, then wouldn't they still be [[wikipedia:WP:TLIMIT|limited by MediaWiki software]]? This means that a limit will still exist to prevent overloading, just at a much higher cap. I have no knowledge about the other configuration changes though, or if you or someone else had set up the other configs in the past differently that would affect how the templates using regex will work post-upgrade. Is this what you meant by performance? Optionally, if you're still unsure about upgrading, you could raise the limit a little instead. DF2014:Creature token currently exceeds the limit by 51. I think 200-500 is enough to fix things now and later down the line. Most other wikis I've seen that have RegexFunctions still use 1.5.0, so this is probably the better/safer option. I changed my mind about #rreplace and would like for it to remain, however the limitation is still causing issues for the page. The revert did mitigate it somewhat, but [[DF2014:Creature token#NOTHOUGHT|not perfectly]]. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 13:17, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

::I removed the function from [[Template:Token]]. It will only lose its space-checking ability in the token type param, which is not a big deal since most use the shortened forms anyway. New values w/ spaces can be added instead of #rreplace. If you have access to LocalSettings.php, setting $wgPFEnableStringFunctions to true will enable #replace, which could be used instead of #rreplace. #replace has a default limit of 1000 compared to #rreplace's 100. [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 06:07, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

:::I do have the ability to make any code changes on the backend. I doubt #replace will work in this case if we really want to replace ''all'' whitespace. Replacing just spaces should work, as long as we can find a way to prevent the Mediawiki parser from gobbling them up. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:05, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

::::Yep, just spaces. I wished Mediawiki had a core function like <nowiki>{{lc:}}</nowiki> that specifically removes spaces from a string. I was surprised one didn't exist. [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 15:36, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

:::::It wouldn't be too hard to write a custom one. I think trimming spaces from the beginning/end of a string is a lot more common than removing just spaces (as opposed to arbitrary characters) from the middle of a string, and MediaWiki generally trims spaces from the beginning/end of arguments from default, so I'm not as surprised that the functionality to remove spaces from the middle of strings doesn't exist already. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:58, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Unrelated, but I'd like to request for [[mediawikiwiki:Snippets/Horizontal lists|horizontal lists]]. This feature allows for [[wikipedia:MOS:HLIST|single-row styled lists]] using wiki markups in tables, templates, etc. A lot wikis including WP use them. I want to redesign [[Template:Navbox]], and hlists would be very useful. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 13:24, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

== May want to lock down at least the LNP page to non-registered users... ==

....for a while (two weeks, perhaps?) as we have a dumbass about...the kind of [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Utility:Lazy_Newb_Pack&oldid=259549| trollish dumbass] who has been sufficiently irritating to deserve an IP trace and a knife in the face, IMHO. "Can't troll on the internet if you're dead, hey? Yeah, let's see how you deal with that." kind of thing,
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 20:49, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

:Threats of violence are not acceptable. Consider this a warning. People will inevitably vandalize a public wiki; the appropriate course of action is to post to [[DF:AIV]] or alert an admin, as you did. I blocked the IPs in question and protected the page, so hopefully that helps with the immediate issue. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:39, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

== Copyright issues... ==

...as in, Meph's recent tileset takedown [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Copyrights produced a discussion]. Your contribution may be needed, but particularly, the exact wording of the copyright template needs some adjusting - mind pointing me at it? Thanks. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 11:51, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

:Are you referring to the "Text is available under GFDL & MIT" suggestion? It's a rather long discussion, so I'm not sure. If so, that is a [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:System_message system message], which can only be edited by admins. You can identify the appropriate message ID by overriding the language code to "qqx" as described in that article. Looks like [[mediawiki:copyright]] to me. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:41, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I was of course referring to the system message edit suggestion - thanks & happy Xmas. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 23:25, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

* Comment: While on topic, you might want to add a caveat excluding the content of games raws used on the wiki from the general copyright. I assume we are using them with Today's blessing, however, I doubt that Toady would wave his rights over their content. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 14:50, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

== Redirects ==

Thanks, I was wondering about that, glad you guys have a policy. Also on unrelated topic, would love to hear what you think regarding the [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Centralized_Discussion/SkillsLaborProfessions|terminology in use on skill articles]]. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 03:55, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
:At a high level, I am in favor of standardization. I haven't had much time to look at that discussion in detail. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:38, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
::Essentially it is a question of standardization. I outlined (1) some discrepancies in the lead of various skill articles, and I believe (2) the terms in the infobox might be misleading, and referred everywhere else differently. Input from more experienced users of this wiki would be appreciated regarding the direction to take.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 00:13, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

----
Question: How do link from the DF2014 namespace to the main namespace. For example: when I try to link to [[Dwarf Fortress Talk]] from [[DF2014:modding]] it shows broken because it only looks up DF2014 namespace and I don't know how to prefix the mainspace. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 15:32, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

:"Main" as the namespace should work (it's an alias that we've set up). Ex: [[Main:Dwarf Fortress Talk]] or [[Main:Dwarf Fortress Talk|Dwarf Fortress Talk]] —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:15, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
:: That works, thank you. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 00:13, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

== Columns-list ==

Any objections for adding the a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Columns-list Columns-list] template to replace large list represented by tables. It's easy to use, easy to adjust option that allows to fit more information horizontally (where possible) using columns and wouldn't break layout like on multi columns tables can, like on some mobile devices.

I made an example: [[User:Jan/Columns-list]] for creatures in [[Desert]]. All you need is provide desired column width or number. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 16:54, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

:Seems like a fine approach to me, as long as it's used for tables where we don't anticipate needing more than one column per entry (so I think [[Desert]] is a good use-case). As a plus, it looks like it falls back to a single-column list for browsers that don't support it. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:38, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

:: Sound good. I created [[Template:Columns-list]] --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 00:13, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Seems like I forgot to ask at the time. Can you please add to [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] this part:
<pre>
/* Template:Columns-list */
/* correct webkit/chrome uneven margin on the first column*/
.div-col dl,
.div-col ol,
.div-col ul {
margin-top: 0;
}</pre>
You can see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Div_col/styles.css here] this is the standard solution to correct an annoying behavior that sometimes cause to skew the number of items in each collumn.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 11:59, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== Found a script [[User:Lethosor/rater_0.1.js| stuck in its drawer]]... ==

...in what might be called the 'Mistakes' subsection, while cleaning up. That is to say, we have a 'Quality ranks in invalid namespaces' situation. What to do?
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:19, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

== Spam issues ==

For once, what I'd otherwise have to say is available [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Python&curid=38885&diff=263697&oldid=263696 in the diff desc]. I imagine there's also a Magic redirect that needs some of the same protective treatment. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:32, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:32, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

:Quietust protected [[Python]]. I protected [[Magic]] just now. I think that's what you meant, but could you please be more clear with your requests in the future? Thanks. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:40, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

== Mediawiki:Licenses ==
This is kind of an awkward thing to ask, but... am I allowed temporary access to edit the Mediawiki:Licenses page? There are a lot of licenses I think should be added, so it's nice and up to date. I'm happy with your decision either way, I just thought you wouldn't want me constantly bothering you for every little thing I think should be added. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 18:10, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
:No, it's not something I can grant on a per-page basis, unfortunately. But if you make the edits you want to a user page or sandbox or somewhere else, I'd be happy to copy them in. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:48, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
::Alright then, here's one for the CC0 license: [[:Template:cc-0]] -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 06:22, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
:::Here's another: [[:Template:Cc-by-nc-nd-4.0]] -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 06:28, 21 July 2022 (UTC) 
::::Aaaaand another [[:Template:Cc-by-nd-4.0]] and another [[:Template:Cc-by-sa-4.0]]
Please also include the title you want. Ideally in the format that page uses. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 06:43, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::I thought the titles within those templates were the giveaway, but very well:
*[[:Template:cc-0]] - Creative Commons Public Domain
*[[:Template:Cc-by-nc-nd-4.0]] - Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial NoDerivatives 4.0 International
*[[:Template:Cc-by-nd-4.0]] - Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivatives 4.0 International
*[[:Template:Cc-by-sa-4.0]] - Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0
*[[:Template:Cc-a-2.0]] - Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 Generic (give or take the "generic" part)
*[[:Template:Cc-by-nc-2.5]] - Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 2.5 Generic (give or take the "generic" part)
*[[:Template:Cc-2.5]] - Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 Generic
*[[:Template:Cc-2.5-au]] - Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 Australia
*[[:Template:Cc-by-2.0-uk]] - Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 UK: England & Wales
*[[:Template:Cc-by-3.0-us]] - Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 United States
*[[:Template:Stock_photo]] - Stock Photo Image

The "I do not know the license" and "found the image somewhere" templates seem to be broken or missing. Not sure if I should make templates for those or not... -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 07:24, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
:Ehh, what the hell, I made those two templates anyway. [[:Template:License_unknown]] and [[:Template:Found_image]]. If you need 'em, fine. If not, still fine. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 07:28, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
::Here's more
*[[:Template:public_domain]] - Public Domain
*[[:Template:Cc-1-uni]] - Creative Commons CC0 1.0 Universal

Sorry for the delay. I have a lot of questions about which section(s) these should go in, etc.. I'm guessing you know the answers to these, so to save us some back-and-forth, could you make the changes you want to [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Sandbox/licenses]] (a copy) and let me know when they're ready to be copied in? Thanks. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:14, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
:I made a mockup on my [[User:Zippy/sandbox|sandbox page]]. Note that the top two are marked by with a "(replace)" because I also made a "don't know" and "license unknown" template to replace the ones that seem to be missing/broken, for some reason. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 12:36, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah... I notice you still haven't added these. Did I set this up wrong? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 05:53, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
:::Well, it wasn't in a format that I could easily paste in. I had to remove the bold text, remove your parenthetical remarks, and replace " - " with "|". I think I got it right in [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Licenses&diff=266031&oldid=264287]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:26, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

May I suggest changing the "Dwarf Fortress Screenshot" choice to "Dwarf Fortress Screenshot and/or Game File"? Or making a separate one for game files? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:49, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
:What other "game files" are you thinking of? We should not be uploading full sprite sheets, for instance. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:22, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
::You didn't see my reply in the talk page about the game version? I showed a screenshot of a reply straight from Kitfox games allowing use of any game images. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 22:55, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
:::It helps to link to what you're talking about. Is it [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Versions&diff=278707&oldid=278700 this reply]? If so, that's referring to individual sprites, not sprite sheets. I have serious copyright concerns around uploading sprite sheets directly, and to me, "game files" sounds like files ''from the game'', e.g. sprite sheets. If you want me to change the dropdown to add "sprites" or maybe "individual sprites", that's fine with me. Let me know if I'm misunderstanding. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:01, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
::::I can't for the life of me understand how it would be okay to post every single sprite here (which we'd have to do eventually, to cover everything), but uploading an entire sprite sheet is an issue? I'm sure one of those sites dedicated to posting sprite sheets is gonna do that anyway. Granted, I can't think of a time when we would need to upload a whole sprite sheet. I guess "Dwarf Fortress Screenshot and/or Sprite(s)" would make more sense, yeah. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 23:19, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::Sprite sheets are paid content. If someone posts them all, there is not much stopping someone from making a pirated copy of "premium" DF, and I am trying to stay as far away from that as we can. I can't control what piracy takes place on other sites. If there is a way we can avoid the technical overhead of uploading all 40,000 possible tiles, I am open to suggestions. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:35, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::All the creature sprites are added. Are you comfortable changing "Dwarf Fortress Screenshot" to "Dwarf Fortress Screenshot and/or Game Sprite"? I had to use that specific license for all the sprites I uploaded, so I think it would make sense to change the license to match that. Though this is ''your'' wiki so... completely up to you. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 05:44, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::::Done (and it's not just "my" wiki). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:55, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

== "Watch" Template ==

Sorry to keep bothering you with stuff, but I made a "watch" template on my [[User:Zippy/sandbox|sandbox page]]. It can be used for those ambiguous 50/50 situations where the copyright infringement is possible, but unknown. Do I have your permission to make that template a reality? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 13:54, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

:I think it should be more specific, like {{tl|possible copyright issue}} and "the copyright status of this image is unconfirmed". —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:44, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
::I changed it, but if the template is allowed, you might have to do some CSS changes so that one side isn't a mismatching blue. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 16:22, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
:::Take a look at {{tl|ambox/type}} for a list of valid types. Notably, "green" is not valid and falls back to the default, but "style" or "yellow" match pretty closely. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:18, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
::::Fair enough. So.. am I allowed to make the template or..? Not sure how this works. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 17:47, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::There are no restrictions on creating templates. That said, I still strongly recommend that you make the template more specific. "watch" is pretty vague for a single-purpose template like this. Can you rename it to {{tl|possible copyright issue}} or something similar? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:21, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
::::::Done. I even made the respective doc page. ([[:Template:Watch|Actual template]]) -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:02, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::::Again, it's still named {{tl|watch}}, which I don't recommend (partly since Mediawiki already uses that term for [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Watching_pages something else]), but thanks for the docs. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:05, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
::::::::Done, but should the "watch" redirect stay so that it's not dissociated with images that already have the template? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:08, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::Yeah, that's a good catch - the redirect should make it easier on us. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:13, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

== Request for interwiki (inter-language) link to Chinese wiki ==

Sorry for repeated content, but I'm wondering if the message has been captured from talk page of Main Page. So I decide to paste my content here as well. We would be really appreciated if interwiki link pointing to our site is enabled, as ''Dwarf Fortress'' itself has not been fully translated to Chinese ever, and our users might find it more convenient to search by English words on original English wiki, and then they may refer to the translated ones on Chinese wiki. Looking forward to a reply about whether it is possible or not. Thanks!

Hello! I'm the admin of [https://dfzh.huijiwiki.com/ Chinese Dwarf Fortress wiki], and I've previous put its link on the main page. We've now enabled interwiki link from our site to English site, and we wish to get one back from English site to CN site as well. Hope that is possible, and thanks so much! The URL for our site should be: <code>https://dfzh.huijiwiki.com/wiki/$1</code> [[User:Xjtu-blacksmith|xjtu-blacksmith 黑山雁]] ([[User talk:Xjtu-blacksmith|talk]]) 01:20, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

:Hi - sorry for not replying on the main page. We just recently fixed an issue preventing us from making configuration changes like this, so I hope I can add this soon. Thanks for reaching out! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:39, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
::Replied on [[Talk:Main Page]]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:45, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

== Cannot create new user account ==

I'm thinking I'm doing all right, but the system is always saying:

''There seems to be a problem with your login session; this action has been canceled as a precaution against session hijacking. Please resubmit the form.''

at my attempts; I tried also to change email address with no good effect.

Is anything I can do to solve this issue? Thanks --[[Special:Contributions/81.56.3.43|81.56.3.43]] 10:39, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

:I'm not sure, sorry. It's working for me and other people: [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Special:Log/newusers]. Try clearing your browser's cache, or using another browser. There may be a hidden field to catch spammers, so try avoiding autofill. Also make sure the captcha is working - you could try turning on Javascript if it's off. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:00, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Ok, I was able to perform the procedure using another device; I was using a linux desktop, I completed the account creation by an android tablet.
:Huh, I was successful using a Linux desktop. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:17, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

== Version number ==

Are you sure about changing the release information version number from: <code>0.50.x</code> to: <code>50.x</code>? This [[version number#Example|version numbering]] has been the convention for over two decade, with [[DF2014:Release information|current]] and past articles named so. Note that while posts on steam use the shorthand Tarns release in the game files still use the original convention --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 01:56, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
:I am sure. It's not just posts - the game itself identifies itself as "50.03" currently. I'm not personally a fan of the change, and I realize it's inconsistent with past versions, but it's what Toady is using now. I do recall seeing "0.50.01" in some .txt files originally, but as of 50.03, nearly all of those occurrences have been updated to "50.01", so I think it was originally overlooked. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:42, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

== Changes to diagram ==

Did something changed with diagram tag? its output all across the wiki seem more colorful than I recall e.g. [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Trap_design#Crosshair_trapping]. Here is a [https://ibb.co/yPSbcRq screenshot] for reference in case it is something on my end, that pinkish hue is new. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 15:35, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
:Hmm, looks normal on Firefox for me, [https://i.imgur.com/aHvPhw4.png screenshot] [[User:Ziusudra|Ziusudra]] ([[User talk:Ziusudra|talk]]) 16:07, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
:Odd, I cannot reproduce on Firefox or Chrome either (looks the same as [[User:Ziusudra|Ziusudra]]'s screenshot to me). Could you check your Javascript console ({{k|ctrl/cmd|shift|i}}) and see if you have any errors on that page? You can ignore any output from "JQMIGRATE". —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:14, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
:: Seems like it is something on my end, probably going to be resolved once I can reboot. Thank for checking. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 16:50, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

== Account to update Book please, and thank you! ==

Hello! I was just looking at quires and books in v50, and wanted to confirm that the value bug for books is still present.

Given an unbound, written quire valued at 57#, the final value after adding 20# of binding and thread is 48# in v50.

I would love an account to note this or at least mention it on the Book talk page. Thanks!

You can contact me at welkin.shibboleth@gmail.com
--[[Special:Contributions/68.171.119.95|68.171.119.95]] 04:24, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

:You should be able to create an account at [[Special:CreateAccount]]. Are you having trouble with it? (You can also made edits without creating an account, like you just did here.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:20, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

== Food Guide ==
I was trying to edit the one for the current steam version but it kept redirecting me, I'll make the changes to that one and revert my changes to the old one. [[User:Kenji 03|Kenji 03]] ([[User talk:Kenji 03|talk]]) 09:36, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

== Graphics policies ==

Hi, I dug through some of the data in my installation to figure out the graphic status thought bubbles (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Status_icon). I'm quite willing to update that page with the information, however, I'm not sure what policies surround uploading graphics. Is there a specific size or format?
[[User:Briezee|Briezee]] ([[User talk:Briezee|talk]]) 02:45, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Just updated [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Versions#Premium.2FClassic]]. As for size, I would recommend trying to get screenshots at the "native" resolution, i.e. not zoomed in or out, to avoid blur caused by DF zooming. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:27, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

== saltwater crocodile / raws ==

Thanks for the help. been meaning to do something about the crocs for a while now. So I take it all the raw txt files are already on the wiki, and the creature pages just need updating? --[[User:Boromonokli|Boromonokli]] ([[User talk:Boromonokli|talk]]) 19:52, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Yes, as described at [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Versions#v50_migration]] (just updated), raw pages have yet to be created, but they can be created manually as you found. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:21, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
::Have any raws been changed in v50? --[[User:Boromonokli|Boromonokli]] ([[User talk:Boromonokli|talk]]) 23:17, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:::Not sure, there are ~1300 raw pages on this wiki and I haven't looked at them all. But if you pull in the correct version of the raws ("v50" or "DF2014"), you shouldn't have to worry. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:04, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== Wiki mobile layout ==

I've seen this touched upon in a few different discussions but I think with the steam release and influx of new people it's important to push this again. The wiki has very little going in terms of "mobile-friendliness" right now and I don't think it would take too many changes to get it going in a good direction.

Either we use the MediaWiki extension [https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Extension:MobileFrontend Extension:MobileFrontend] or we adjust the CSS/HTML of the website as is to make it at least a little more user-friendly on mobile.

Happy to help out on this, I do web development as a day job so I can offer support here if needed. Cheers.
--[[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 15:35, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== Vermin Lookup Template ==

I was wondering, is it alright if you change up the <code>verminlookup</code> template like you did the <code>creaturelookup</code> one? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 06:35, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
:Are you asking me to do it? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:16, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
::Well, yeah. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 18:23, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
:::So uhhhhhhhh... Leth, my man. Are you gonna... change the template or...? Edit: I could just use the v50 creature template still if that's okay with you. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 03:34, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
::::My time is limited, and the way you asked kind of rubbed me the wrong way, although I don't think you meant to. I'll get to it. It doesn't require any special permissions, and it's pretty much just copying what I did for creaturelookup (I'm going to edit a few templates to pass through an "image" argument, then copy the image piece from {{tl|CreatureInfo v0.40}} into the innermost template), so I would suggest taking a look at the changes so you can familiarize yourself with how the templates work. There are a lot of layers, but they're pretty much standard MediaWiki templates until you get down to {{tl|tag}}, {{tl|tagvalue}}, and others that use DFRawFunctions. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:31, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

::::To be fair, {{tl|VerminInfo}} ended up having two minor differences from {{tl|CreatureInfo v0.40}} that I resolved (described in [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:CreatureInfo_v0.40&diff=prev&oldid=285703 this edit]), but the edits to {{tl|verminlookup/0}} and {{tl|verminlookup/aux}} were just a matter of passing through an "image" parameter, similar to {{tl|creaturelookup/0}}. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:44, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::Sorry, I wasn't trying to sound rude. I couldn't tell if you were waiting for one of us to change it or if you were already planning on doing it. The irony is, I was trying to sound less pushy and somehow ended up sounding more pushy. Are you also able to add the "toggle" thing to the vermin infoboxes like that of the other creatures? Edit: If you're not too busy that is. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:13, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::I already did. It should behave identically to the creature infoboxes (and does on my end). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:02, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::::Ah yes, you're right, sorry. My laptop wasn't refreshing any pages for some reason. Thank you, the work you do on this wiki is phenomenal. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 23:07, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::::I should also add (because I don't remember if I said this before on another page), are you alright with me using the "v50_buildings" template I made for all the buildings in the v50 game? I don't want to keep bothering you for every single template. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 23:13, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::v50 pages should be using {{tl|buildings}}, which will use {{tl|v50 buildings}} automatically on v50 pages. This is important so that future version migrations (if any) work. I confirmed that I see the v50 template on [[Bars]] and [[Altar]]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:46, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

== Reducing space taken up by headers ==

Migrated articles have a ton of vertical space taken by headers, could we reduce it a bit?

# Could you combine the bullets in [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice]] to one line?
# Any objections to [[Template_talk:ArticleVersion#.22Note_that_some_content_may_still_need_to_be_updated..22|my suggestion here]] to combine the av and migrated boxes into one before I go do it? Especially now that the Quality template shows up between them. [[User:OddballJoe|OddballJoe]] ([[User talk:OddballJoe|talk]]) 18:41, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

:I am hesitant to do (1) because I want to make certain points obvious, and I think the link to the discussion page is important. For (2) I replied at that talk page. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:00, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

== Version history reorg ==

Planning to rearrange how version pages work a little, wanted to give you a heads-up in case you object. [[Talk:Release_information]] --[[User:OddballJoe|OddballJoe]] ([[User talk:OddballJoe|talk]]) 22:26, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
:Thanks, haven't had a lot of time to keep up-to-date but I weighed in briefly. Will watch that page. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:43, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
:: When you have a chance, could you or another admin look over the edit I proposed at [[Template talk:Release notes]] and execute it or provide feedback? Thanks. -[[User:OddballJoe|OddballJoe]] ([[User talk:OddballJoe|talk]]) 23:00, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

== do_it_right best practices ==

This - [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#We_are_doing_this.21_Let_us_do_it_right.]] - is awesome! Good on you if you wrote it.

No action needed, just a note of appreciation. I endeavor to wiki righteously!
--[[User:Jerimee|Jerimee]] ([[User talk:Jerimee|talk]]) 02:17, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

:That predates me by a few years, actually. You have [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal&dir=prev&action=history several people] to thank for that. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:32, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

== front page green banner weirdness ==

If you view the front page logged out there is some misformatted markup above the green v50 info for editors site notice. I couldn't figure out how to correct it or where it was being inserted.

It reads <nowiki>border-radius: 4px; -webkit-border-radius: 4px; -moz-border-radius: 4px; -o-border-radius: 4px; -ms-border-radius: 4px;</includly><nnclude>
Template:Documntation <clude> "></nowiki> and inspect source shows goat.jpg with alt text "rip this wiki."

Where should I report this? Is a screenshot helpful?
--[[User:Jerimee|Jerimee]] ([[User talk:Jerimee|talk]]) 00:27, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
:About a week ago or whatever, we had a really, ''really'' nasty vandal. That's an old leftover of his "work". --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 01:13, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

:I just cleared the site-wide cache. That didn't seem to have an immediate effect on the main page, so I purged it manually as well. If you see any other instances of this, feel free to purge the cache yourself: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Purge —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:20, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
::Seems to be gone now! [[User:Jerimee|Jerimee]] ([[User talk:Jerimee|talk]]) 02:31, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

== ru colon ==

What does <nowiki>ru:</nowiki>, as in <nowiki>[[ru:Language]]</nowiki>, do? Is "ru" is a name space? Maybe one created programmatically or with permission restrictions? Can you point me to where the doc is or where it should be? If it doesn't exist I'll create it as best I can. Thanks. [[User:Jerimee|Jerimee]] ([[User talk:Jerimee|talk]]) 06:24, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
: interwiki link to russian site... [[User:Jerimee|Jerimee]] ([[User talk:Jerimee|talk]]) 23:33, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

== Adding vermin to the "Creatures" page... ==

May I ask why vermin and other creatures are on seperate pages? And can I add the vermin list to the creatures list? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 11:28, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
:It's not something I decided and I'm not the only one you should ask (i.e. I would ask on a talk page somewhere), but my guess (based on several other distinctions I've seen across the wiki) is that it's due to vermin having different characteristics from other creatures. [[Vermin]] gives a far better explanation than I could. The two options I see are to either make more prominent cross-links in the explanatory text at [[Creature]] and [[Vermin]], or include the vermin table but make it very clear that vermin are different from other creatures. I don't really have a strong preference, although I do tend to stick with the established workflows (i.e. this distinction has worked for >10 years... not that we shouldn't improve it). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:23, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

== Plant and Tree Infoboxes ==
Me and Oddballjoe were wondering if you could add the image pass to the plants and tree infoboxes. If you have any time to spare that is. Those template pages look super outdated and I can't tell if they use the "aux" templates or not. I made a proposal for the trees:
<gallery widths="223px" heights="324px">
tree_infobox_example.png|Trunk and tile.
tree_infobox_example2.png|Trunk, branch, leaves and tile.
</gallery>
I mean, if that's easier to set up then the toggle thing. Again, if you want, and if you have the time. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 01:17, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
:I like the side-by-side idea. I'll try to find time this week. From a quick spot-check: [[Abaca]] uses {{tl|treelookup/0}}, which uses {{tl|treelookup/aux}}, which uses one of a few TreeInfo templates. It was using an old one for main (v50) pages, which I [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:Treelookup/aux&diff=prev&oldid=290794 just fixed here] - is that what you meant by "super outdated"? That's the only issue I saw (a template being old doesn't necessarily mean it's outdated).
:Anyway, if you're interested in editing templates, I'd suggest watching the edit history of all of these to see what changes are needed. Your [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:Treelookup/aux&diff=prev&oldid=290788 image change to treelookup/aux] looks fine to me, but it wouldn't have done anything by itself without corresponding changes to the other templates I mentioned. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:54, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
::No matter how hard I eyeball the edit history of the other templates, I can ''never'' figure out what the sweet hell I'm missing. Adding <code><nowiki>{{{image|}}}</nowiki></code> doesn't seem to do anything. I have no idea what other components must be added after that - to any page. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 06:43, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
:::Have you decided when you're gonna update the plant and tree infoboxes? For the record, it's no rush. Any time you choose is perfectly fine by me, even if it's next year. I added all the trunk and log sprites/colors, so that's that one done. I personally prefer the side-by-side proposal for the trees, but it's up to you, since you're the head admin. Also, I think the soillookup template (and any other similar template I probably can't think of right now) should have the toggle thing as well, but again, all up to you. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 01:05, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

== spheres ==

I found a list of 130 "spheres" here - https://github.com/DFHack/df-structures/blob/master/df.language.xml - and thought they were related to symbols. On comparison, they don't seem to be. What are spheres? [[User:Jerimee/spheres]]

''(I understand that the data at DFHack is structured for that mod, and the files there are not DF game files or DF raws. On line 209 I see you're importing the symbols directly. I'm interested in df.language.xml because it appears to structure the game data.)''

--[[User:Jerimee|Jerimee]] ([[User talk:Jerimee|talk]]) 23:33, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

:Could you ask DFHack questions in one of the [https://docs.dfhack.org/en/stable/docs/Introduction.html#getting-help DFHack support channels] instead? I don't personally know the answer to this one. (If by line 209 you mean [https://github.com/DFHack/df-structures/blob/8ae81f8d8f1f96d82b9074b205073bb8e8d29f96/df.language.xml#L209 this], that is only specifying the global vector that contains instances of "language_symbol".) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:10, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

== Quality rating misunderstanding ==

Hi, I noticed you have had to undo a small percentage of my quality ratings. I was trying to be helpful, and always checking the [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality|quality]] guidelines, so I thought I'd drop you a comment here, so I can avoid wasting your time in future. To be specific, I think I am misinterpreting the use of [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality#Tattered|"tattered"]] rating, and I'm hoping you can give me some more specific guidelines. Also, for context: I have only started to get familiar with the wiki, as an editor, for a month or so, but I realise that there is currently an extremely high number of unrated pages post-v50.
 
I think my main points of confusion are the [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality#Tattered|tattered]] guidelines mentioning "lacks information", 'inaccurate information' and 'strictly need improvement'. From my perspective, one, or sometimes, all of these criteria, were the reason for my quality rating edit. Often, I felt these pages also very clearly didn't meet the criteria of a [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality#Tattered|"fine"]] rating, as defined on the same [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality|quality]] page, and consequently, leaves me quite perplexed. This is a long preamble to give context to, and hopefully not sound offensive when I say, that though I realise edit comments aren't very useful for detailed explanations, just commenting along the lines of 'that is not what the rating is for' has left me more, rather than less, confused.
Hopefully there is a clear misunderstanding of the guidelines on my part. However, if it is not so obvious in retrospect; considering the large number of currently unrated pages, could I suggest a review of the wording and examples on the [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality|quality]] rating page?
--[[User:Alpacalypse|Alpacalypse]] ([[User talk:Alpacalypse|talk]]) 13:26, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

:Sorry, I made a hasty edit and summary and should have clarified. What I meant is that ''only'' tagging an article as "tattered" isn't really what the quality rating system is for, because that doesn't tell the user ''what'' is wrong with the article (is it outdated? incomplete? something else?). I think a combination of marking the article with {{tl|quality|tattered}} and marking the affected information with {{tl|old}} or another appropriate template would help make it more obvious what the problem is. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:42, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
::Ahh, that makes a lot of sense, thanks for clarifying. In future, if I am just doing a quick edit like that for rating/improvement notes, that would benefit from elaboration, I'll be sure to leave a comment on the talk page. On a related note, I hadn't properly read the {{tl|Old}} documentation, and thought it was redundant with {{tl|Migrated article}}. So, one final question: In this case, if it looks like the only issues are with recent version changes, would it make sense to ''replace'' <nowiki>{{migrated article}}</nowiki> with <nowiki>{{old}}</nowiki> ( presumably <nowiki>{{old|v=50."xx"}}</nowiki> ), rather than leave both tags? --[[User:Alpacalypse|Alpacalypse]] ([[User talk:Alpacalypse|talk]]) 17:19, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
:::Sure, I think that makes sense. I think {{tl|migrated article}} is less specific and mostly for unchecked content that may or may not be outdated (while {{tl|old}} and similar templates are more specific to what needs to change). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:23, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
::::I thought it might be a good idea to share my current edit of [[XML_dump|XML dump]]. I suspect it may now be a bit too cluttered with (possibly redundant) info from tags, but I thought it might be a good reference for you to consider. Feel free to just revert, but if you have any notes on best practices for an article like this, I'll take them on board. Very brief overview of reasoning in summary comment. --[[User:Alpacalypse|Alpacalypse]] ([[User talk:Alpacalypse|talk]]) 17:48, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

== No problem ==

Hello Lethosor,

Thanks for reverting the page back. I've been a fan of the DF wiki for quite a while, and when I saw the
vandalism, I wanted to nip it in the bud immediately. I'm glad someone who knew how to repair
things more efficiently found the solution quickly!

Sincerely,
johnf5007
--[[User:Johnf5007|Johnf5007]] ([[User talk:Johnf5007|talk]]) 23:44, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

== Fighting against vandalism ==

Hello, I noticed that recently the wiki has been attacked by vandals. How should I notify the administrators if such a thing keeps occurring? [[User:Lowtax|Lowtax]] ([[User talk:Lowtax|talk]]) 23:58, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
:They have already been notified (myself included) and have dealt with it. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:03, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
::Okay, understood. Is there any noticeboard for vandalism for future incidents? [[User:Lowtax|Lowtax]] ([[User talk:Lowtax|talk]]) 01:10, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
:::[[DF:AIV]] can work, especially for isolated incidents. Usually people will notice pretty quickly for larger incidents. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:29, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
::::Okay, I'll keep that in mind. [[User:Lowtax|Lowtax]] ([[User talk:Lowtax|talk]]) 15:45, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::Yes, I'm sure you will the next time you try to vandalize our site. Don't you have anything better to do with your spare time? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 16:38, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

== (Please delete this after you read this message) ==

Okay then I shall do more edits and try to upload my data. I just wanted to update the data on the wiki from my steam guides.
I tried reaching out from bay12games forums but I do not know if you got the message so I am reverting here.
Here are my steam guides for you to see :https://steamcommunity.com/id/Sniper231996/myworkshopfiles/?section=guides&appid=975370
--[[User:Sniper231996|Sniper231996]] ([[User talk:Sniper231996|talk]]) 08:16, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

User talk:Lethosor

2023-12-05T08:16:33Z

Sniper231996: /* (Title here) */ new section

{{User:Lethosor/header}}
{{Archive|
* [[/archive1|Archive 1 (February-August 2013)]]
* [[/archive2|Archive 2 (Sept. 2013 - May 2014)]]
}}
__TOC__
{{clear}}

==Bot requests==
<div style="" class="plainlinks">
[{{fullurl:User talk:Lethosor|action=edit&section=1&editintro={{urlencode:User:Lethosor/edit intro/bot}}}} '''Add a new request''']
</div>

=== Underpopulated categories ===

Many categories in the DF2014 namespace don't list some of the pages that have the category link. An empty edit on a page (well, any edit) will correct this, but only for that page. This sounds like a job for a bot. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] ([[User talk:VengefulDonut|talk]]) 19:00, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
:I'm pretty sure that's a cache problem, so I'll try rebuilding link tables on the server side and see if that helps (it would probably be a lot faster than sending a bot around to null-edit every page). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:41, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
::This has been fixed. The problem was that the server that actually runs the job queue was still using the old configuration (without the DF2014 namespace). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:17, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

== Diagram ==

Take a look over [[DF talk:diagram|here]]. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] ([[User talk:VengefulDonut|talk]]) 15:45, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

== Ceramic Industry page assistance. ==

(Message here) --[[User:DorfyDave|DorfyDave]] ([[User talk:DorfyDave|talk]]) 04:16, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the help with the ceramic industry stuff.

I see what you are doing with the thumbnail workflows on other pages, so if you would rather it be small and let the reader expand it, that would be fine.

I was thinking that the pages looked better with the intro section before the regular content, keeping it separate from the auto TOC / Header listed content, but if you prefer that everything follow the layered header format, that's fine.

:My primary concern was the wrapping caused by inserting the full-size flowchart next to a section. It looks like you've addressed that by splitting up the flowchart, which looks good to me. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:48, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

== Removing/restoring [[Main:Fruit]] ==

Not that I am protesting it, but why exactly did you remove and then restore the [[Main:Fruit]] page? Because to me, all that happened now is that the creation entry on the page's history is gone, which isn't really anything notable either.
--{{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|13:03|August 26, 2014}} 13:03, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
:I deleted it at first because I didn't realize AutoRedirect wasn't handling section redirects properly, then restored it when I noticed it was broken. That article's [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Fruit&action=history history] still shows your revision, so I'm not sure what you mean - is it missing from [[Special:RecentChanges]]? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:07, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
::The creation entry I was talking about was actually the first entry, and the entry that is now the only one was the second before you removed it. When I created the page I first had it directly redirect to [[cv:Tree#Fruit]], which after testing didn't work. I usually save the page when the preview doesn't show a red link and the link is correct, and after saving I test it, This time, however, the link in the preview was blue and correct, but actually following the redirect only led to [[cv:Tree]] instead of [[cv:Tree#Fruit]]. The entry you are seeing now is the result of fixing this by making it into a double redirect through [[cv:Fruit]].
:::It looks to me like your first edit was to [[DF2014:Fruit]] - when [[Main:Fruit]] didn't exist, it would have automatically redirected to [[DF2014:Fruit]], so it might have appeared to exist when it didn't. (The problem here is that I made AutoRedirect follow redirect chains internally, since Mediawiki's maximum-redirect setting is buggy, so a nonexistent [[Main:Fruit]] would actually redirect to what [[cv:Fruit]] redirects to - the problem is that it ignores sections at the moment, so section redirects will need to be manually created until I can fix that.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:18, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

== settings-manager ==

I don't know where to put it because I don't have a github account and don't know if you have a personal thread for your scripts like the others, but couldn't you add a TEXT mode entry in line 116 of your settings-manager script?
--[[Special:Contributions/78.250.50.116|78.250.50.116]] 04:40, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
:I originally excluded it because it only works on Linux, but I'll add it back for Linux users. Thanks! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:44, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

== Interesting glitch with redirects ==

I went to see what "Candy" was by going to a page named "Candy", and I found out that it meant Adamantine. But I saw that I got redirected to [[v0.34:Adamantine]], which shouldn't happen seeing as mainspace redirects should always go to the cv namespace. So I went back to fix it, and I saw that [[main:Candy]] redirected to [[main:Adamantine]], so I went there to fix it. But that page redirected properly to [[DF2014:Adamantine]]. This is where it gets interesting.

So when you go to [[main:Candy]], you get redirected to [[main:Adamantine]] which in turn redirects to [[DF2014:Adamantine]]. But - for some reason, you don't get sent to [[DF2014:Adamantine]], but to [[v0.34:Adamantine]]. Going to [[main:Adamantine]] in the first place redirects you to [[DF2014:Adamantine]] properly.

I have no idea how this happens, and since you maintain most of the wiki, I think you would be the right person to tell this to.
--{{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|13:42|November 01, 2014}} 13:42, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:My best guess is that the [[Main:Candy]] redirect is cached and still points to [[v0.34:Adamantine]]. Our [[DF:REDIR|new policy]] is to keep redirects in versioned namespaces, so feel free to tag any broken redirects (in the main namespace) that you find with {{tl|bad redirect}} and I'll delete them. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 14:48, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:I just saw a redlink on the exploratory tunnels page(redlink to [[DF2014:Break]]) and went to create it, when I discovered that the pages for Break existed for 23a and 40d, but not for 34.11 and 40.x. I went to check those to import content, and they turned out to be redirects. So I just redirected [[DF2014:Break]] to [[DF2014:On break]] and when I went to create additional redirects in the mainspace, I found that [[main:Break]] redirects to [[main:On break]] which redirects to [[cv:On break]]. But, again, it ultimately did not redirect to cv:On break but to v0.34:Break. I think that if it is indeed a cache problem we should rebuild redirect caches. {{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|12:08|November 02, 2014}}
:PS: Or just batch-delete all of this kind of redirects. {{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|12:09|November 02, 2014}}
:I don't like "bumping" this message like this, but since it's rather annoying, and ten days have been since I told you, almost all of these redirects are broken. Take a look at [[main:Aluminium]] for example, it goes to its 34.11 page. I think that it goes like this; when a page in the mainspace redirects to another page in the mainspace, which in turn goes to a cv space page, it goes to 0.34 instead of the current version. Going to the main>cv redirect initially does not cause this glitch. {{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|12:46|November 12, 2014}}
::It would be helpful if you could add {{tl|bad redirect}} to those pages (preferably before the "#REDIRECT" line) so I can delete them. I'm not sure what's causing the problem, but I'll see if I can override broken redirects with the AutoRedirect extension as well. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:18, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

== Migrated citations ==

As seen on [[DF2014:Dragonfire]], migrated citations can become confused, pointing to non-existent pages. I'm not sure how to fix it, but in general citations shouldn't automatically change what they are pointing at.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 18:26, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

== <nowiki>{{ArticleVersion}}</nowiki> bug ==

I just found another very strange bug regarding the articleversion template. The more research I did on it, the weirder it got. The bug is that when you are not logged in, and you visit a non-DF2014 page with an av template, the latest version shows as v0.40.16 instead of v0.40.18. {{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|10:17|November 25, 2014}}
PS: This bug does not replicate when you are logged in. {{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|10:19|November 25, 2014}}
:This is because pages are cached for logged-out users. You can refresh individual pages by adding "?action=purge" to the end of the URL (or possibly by null-editing them). It appears to occur in DF2014 pages as well - [[DF2014:Hemp]], for example. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:49, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

== Lost password request ==

I've forgotten my password. User: Bumber

:You don't seem to have an email address associated with your account. I sent a message to Bumber on the forums, assuming that's you. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:24, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks.

== Redirects ==

Thank you for the correction. I felt I might be doing it wrong but couldn't find an example of it done right to copy. Now I know. :) [[User:Volatar|Volatar]] ([[User talk:Volatar|talk]]) 16:02, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

== v0.42.05 raws update ==

Just a friendly reminder that the wiki raws need updated to pick up the [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Page_request/List&diff=222917&oldid=222913 new critters in v0.42.05]. It would also be nice if your bot could auto-create the new creature pages so we don't end up with [[back bear man]] and the like.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 23:05, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

:Quietust updated the extension, but I'm having trouble deploying the changes for some reason (which Emily can hopefully figure out). I don't know if I'll have enough time this/next week to write a script to create the new creature pages - if not, Quietust might have something still laying around from 0.34/0.40. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:45, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

== Page move reminder ==

[[DF2014:Box]] to [[DF2014:Container]] please. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 23:01, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

:Done. It took me a second to figure out what the issue was - I'm surprised Mediawiki wouldn't let you move a page over another one that was just a redirect. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:21, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks! [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:50, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

== v0.43.05 raws update ==

Just a friendly reminder that the wiki raws need updated to pick up the changes through v0.43.05.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:48, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

:Done. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:43, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

== Multiple redirects leads to incorrect namespace ==

Discussion here: [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Centralized_Discussion#Solution_for_this]] [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 10:49, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

== Vandalism ==

We had an attack on August 3rd. [[Talk:Main Page (fix plz)]] ‎needs moved back to Talk:Main Page, and the rest of [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Special:Contributions/Etihand the vandal's handiwork] can just be deleted. I can't think of any legitimate reason a user would need to move Talk:Main Page, so it should probably be move-locked to prevent future hijacks.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 15:53, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

:It should be cleaned up now. Sorry for the delay there. [[Main Page]] was already move-protected, but apparently that didn't apply to the talk page, so both should be move-protected now too. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:29, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

== Sorry, I need a password reset ==

I just logged in, saw the post about passwords needing to be changed. (Feeling all smart since I just setup a password manager) I updated my password, only to realize I didn't save the new password correctly in the manager. I tried to reset it but the wiki had a note saying to contact you since it can't do outbound email right now.

My user name is [[Frobnic8]].

My most notable contribution here are the PDF versions of the old Bronzemurder illustration by Tim Denee: [[Bronzemurder]]

The files are still hosted at my website. To prove it's me, I've also left you a note at http://eldritch.org/erskin/temp/df_wiki.txt

Sorry for the hassle, but if you could set me a temporary password or send me a link to a password reset to the associated email address for the account, that'd be awesome.

Thanks!

--[[Special:Contributions/70.163.4.102|70.163.4.102]] 15:40, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

:Done —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:59, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

::Thanks! --[[User:Frobnic8|Frobnic8]] ([[User talk:Frobnic8|talk]]) 02:51, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

== Password reset ==

I could have sworn I did this already, but now there's no sign of my edit here. Dunno what happened to it. Can I please get a password reset for user Urist McDorf. I believe the email info associated is still good (j*y@y*m). Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/108.49.199.220|108.49.199.220]] 06:56, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

== Totally failed to make an account ==

Really think I did everything right.

The Captcha app you are using says it "shutdown" on 3-31-2018 so i'm wondering if that's the issue. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:216.201.251.142|216.201.251.142]]

:Yeah, we know about it. Emi and Briess are working on some upgrades, and we'll try to upgrade the captcha once it's done. In the meantime, you can PM me on the forums (or email me at gmail.com) and I think I can set up an account for you. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:41, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

== Chemist Page Quality Rating ==

The quality rating of the [[chemist]] page is listed as *Superior*, despite being a stub. I can't even decrease the quality down to +Fine+ using the rating script.
I added the memory attribute as stated by Toady's recent FotF reply, and I'll insert the relevant [[topics]] for the skill, but there's probably a lot more work to be done.
--[[User:Bumber|Bumber]] ([[User talk:Bumber|talk]]) 06:39, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

:The "override" link [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Chemist&action=history worked for me]. You have to click on the rating at the top that you want to select, then submit. The calculated score is unreliable, to say the least. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

::I couldn't figure out how the override worked and just assumed it was an admin thing. Didn't realize you had to click one of the quality options at the top. —[[User:Bumber|Bumber]] ([[User talk:Bumber|talk]]) 22:18, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

== [Proposition] - Wiki preview popups ==

Hi there.

I've read quite a bit of wikipedia these last few days (the real wikipedia website), and I've come to use their preview feature quite a few times.
In case you don't know, the preview is a little JS pop-up that shows an image and some text when you hover a link.
So, you get a rough idea of what the thing is, and you don't have to load the full page (you can still if you click the link).

This feature is not in DF wiki, and I was thinking maybe it could be, as it greatly increase readability (since you don't have to open a new page, read the first few lines, go back, and waste time figuring out where you were; for every topic you're unaware of).

I'm not sure whether I should ask you, or Briess or anyone, but since you've made quite some wiki Extensions, I'll ask anyway.

So, do you think it could be a viable idea to turn this feature on ?

Here's a mediawiki tutorial on how to set this up, just in case :
[https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Popups]

Cheers ! =D
- Spriggans
Aug, 17 2018

:It does sound useful, but it claims to require MediaWiki 1.25+, so it'll probably have to wait until we finish upgrading. There are instructions for 1.24 or earlier in the article, though - I'm not sure how far back "or earlier" includes. The two extensions it depends on, TextExtracts and PageImages, require 1.23+ and 1.25+ respectively, so it's unlikely that it'll work on our current (pre-upgrade) setup.
:(I am a good person to ask, by the way, and <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> is probably a more convenient way to sign comments.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:14, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

== Aesthetically Pleasing Things ==

I know I posted this before but... do I have your permission to spice up some of the templates of tables? I could make some look better and "cleaner" than they do now. Also, are there any plans to change the default look of the wiki? I don't mean this in a nasty way, white with black text is pretty... generic. - [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 14:20, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

== Auto-Welcome ==

It looks like your bot is automatically welcoming editors. Unfortunately, due to the nature of rotating IP addresses, it appears your bot has [//www.dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Special:Contributions/LethosorBot welcomed one anonymous user] 7 times in the last 5 days. Perhaps it would be best to restrict auto-welcoming to non-IP users?--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 21:55, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
:Yeah, that's the AutoWelcomeUser extension (just set up to attribute edits to my bot). I definitely agree that it should be changed, and I'll look into it. Fun fact: this was enabled on the old wiki, but I had written it for a ''slightly'' newer Mediawiki version, so I had forgotten about it since it didn't actually work until we upgraded. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:37, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
:I think this is fixed now. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:57, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

== On "Acceptable" Commas ==

Regarding [//www.dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:World_generation&curid=32663&diff=245045&oldid=245044 this edit]:

Per the [//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style Wikipedia Manual of Style] (referenced as [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#S|Rule S]]): "Where more than one style is acceptable under MoS, editors should not change an article from one of those styles to another without a good reason."

So, while that comma is indeed "acceptable" (or optional), editing to add that optional comma is not. I intentionally did not put a comma there when I added that sentence, and I believe my punctuational preference is at least as valid as ‎Silverwing235's.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 23:12, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

:I'm not convinced that comma is optional, but I didn't realize you had added that sentence (I thought it was part of the original quote from Toady before your changes, so I was mistakenly applying rule S there as well). Apologies, and it's your call as to what to do there. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:21, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

== Embark points ==

There's no page explaining embark points in-depth; can I make such a page? Or at least add it to the embark page? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:39, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
: I'd add it to the embark page since I'm not sure it warrants a separate page unless it's a ''lot'' of detail (i.e. more than the current embark page). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:43, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
:: With what I have planned, there's a ton of things I can go over which can fill a page. I can make a "workbench"/fake page and you can tell me if it's worthy or not. Also, is it possible to put things in "collapsable/expandable" tables to not badly stretch out pages? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 04:14, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
:: Sorry, one more thing. You know the "Urist likes [something] for their [something]."? Are these made up on the spot or is that info taken directly from somewhere? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 04:59, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
::: I'm not sure how much detail you can go into about just embark points, but sure, feel free to make a test page if you like and I can provide some input. I wouldn't put things in collapsible tables just because of page length, because pretty much no other page does that (except for some things that aren't really part of the content of a page, like nav boxes and raws). If you're referring to things like "Urist likes [creature]" from pages like [[DF2014:Cat]], those are generated from the raws. I'm not sure if that appears on any other types of pages. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:30, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

==Creature font==
Are you alright if I change the font of the letters in the creature list? Sorry to say this but that font is kinda ugly. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 01:40, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
:Are you talking about [[DF2014:Creature]] or something else? I personally think that page looks fine, but what does it look like on your end? It might be some cross-browser issue that we can try to sort out. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:56, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
::Yes I do mean that DF2014:Creature page. The font of the letters that resemble the creatures are this ugly "Times New Roman"-esque font that looks like an eyesore to me. It could be a much smoother looking font. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:55, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
:::I noticed the font looks ugly on Firefox and Edge but not in the Tor Browser. So yeah, there's a weird browser thing going on and I don't know how to fix things for specific browsers on wiki's... -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 20:45, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
::::I'm guessing you don't have the "Century" font installed, or accessible in those browsers for some reason. For reference, [https://i.imgur.com/wD6QMoG.png here] is what it looks like for me, definitely not Times. I'll see if it can be standardized. Does {{Raw Tile|c|6:0}} look ok to you? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:33, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::At some point in the possibly-recent past, those letters looked the same for me as it did you, but one day it just changed to the uglier font. Also, it's impossible to use the "Upload newer version of this file" function, as that always gives weird errors: Could not read or write file "mwstore://local-backend/local-public/6/6c/Biome_evil.png" due to insufficient permissions or missing directories/containers. I'm assuming I don't have access to do that? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 03:07, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
::::::I figured out the setting that controlled the font, it's the "Allow pages to choose their own fonts, instead of your selections above" choice, but turning this option off can spoil the fonts everywhere else on other sites. There's something about (my) Firefox that's not recognizing the Century font, even though I have it. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 03:36, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::::Yeah, not sure it's worth working around browser settings. Does the {{Raw Tile|c|6:0}} from above look ok to you or the same as the one on the creatures page? Also, that error is definitely not intentional; I'll look into it. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:57, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
::::::::The C there looks alright. Creature tile lists on other pages look fine as it's using the "Tile" template, so maybe something's wrong with the template being used in the creature page. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 12:55, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::It's a custom template being used for those tables that specifies the font itself. I changed the font to fall back to the ones that {{tl|Tile}} uses. Does it look ok now? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:56, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::It does not. But when I use a different computer, it's fine there (still on Firefox). Yeah, I can't figure this out. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 07:54, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
{{od|10}}
I've cleared the cache on the server side (I don't remember if I did that before). If that still doesn't help, maybe clearing your browser's cache would help? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:29, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
::Well, I cleared 1GB worth of data, but that didn't fix the issue? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 03:14, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

== BREAKING NEWS ==

Here comes Supernerd... the coolest and greatest editor ever on [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki]]. --[[User:Supernerd|Supernerd]] ([[User talk:Supernerd|talk]]) 10:47, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

== Proposal to translate the Wiki into Spanish ==

Good I am an expert player in the game and I would like to translate the wiki to help the Spanish community in this great game.
Should I translate it as I could?.
Here's my email for the answer: cheekonobreeko@gmail.com

== Just signal boosting on someone else's behalf... ==

...apparently a researcher with [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174850.0 research] on [[book]]s got themselves [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175133.0 locked out of the lab]. Any support for this?
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:02, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

== Minor server-side issues... ==

1. Broken(404) HTML links [[Quotes|here]].

2. Creature [[Giant earthworm|variation]] needs to be added [[Worm|here]].
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 11:09, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

:These aren't server-side issues - they can be fixed by editing the pages. In the first case, the forums moved from bay12games.com/forums to bay12forums.com/smf (I'm not sure when that happened, or if there used to be a redirect, but I would recommend {{tl|cite forum}} to make them future-proof). The second issue you pointed out happens when creature variations don't follow the typical naming pattern, but you can override the variations that the templates display. See [[blue jay]], [[bluejay man]], and [[giant bluejay]] for examples, and feel free to let me know if you have any questions about those templates. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 06:30, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
:Update: looks like there's also {{tl|forum link}} if you prefer to keep the text that the links currently use (for #1). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 06:33, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

== can't login... user:garrieirons ==

yeah I tried all the things and posted on the forum.

any advice on how to get a password reset?

https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/User:GarrieIrons

Sorry if you're not an admin.

Cheers,
Garrie

Symptom:
When I click the reset password link, and enter my user name (GarrieIrons) it tells me:
'''A password reset email has already been sent, within the last 24 hours. To prevent abuse, only one password reset email will be sent per 24 hours.'''

Cheers again.
G

:Ok, so it sounds like you already requested a password reset - did you get an email? It should have come from do-not-reply@dwarffortresswiki.org (make sure it didn't get sent to your spam folder). If you don't have access to the email address you registered with anymore, I can try to reset it some other way. Also, where did you post on the forums? I didn't see anything from you on the wiki board. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:36, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
::To be clear, every password reset has resulted in the message above, but, no email. Can you tell me is it going to a hotmail, or a gmail address? If not, I'm stumped and I'll start a different account?
::Also...ok I looked at threads I guess. I coulda sworn at some time in the past I asked about this on the forum but I'm not finding it (only the thread I thought I responded to).
::G
:::OK I found a PM thread on the forum, from ages ago, referring me to you...but I'd never followed up... 🤦‍♂️
:::G.
:::Looks like your username at hotmail.com - do you still have access to that? I just sent you a test email from the wiki, so let me know if that goes through. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:24, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

== Weirdness ensues... ==

...Alright, maybe not, but then again...
[[Interaction_examples|this page]] is fine in Search, but spews redlinkery when linked to as if Ebola-infected - very puzzling.
---[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 21:16, 7 March 2020 (UTC) EDIT: And the mystery deepens, because apparently one has to be [[DF2014:Interaction_examples|very specific]] about phrasing...downright incantational,really...in order to get a clear result with this.

:If you're in a versioned namespace (like DF2014), links will be within that namespace by default; otherwise, they will use the main namespace. Looks like a [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Interaction_examples&action=history redirect was created] in this case and both of those links seem to work now. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:56, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

== Obok Meatgod ==

Hey Lethesor, thanks for all the work you do for DFhack. I have a favour to ask. I was using the "random page" feature and I stumbled upon [[Obok Meatgod|this article]]. The article is about an adventure mode game from the Bay12 forums where some dude modded genitals into his game so he could [do some really vile stuff]. I don't mean to bug ''you'' about it, but I'm getting an internal error when I try to start a talk page on the article. Basically, can you delete this article? I'm all for some good shock humour, and I know DF stories can get pretty brutal, but this doesn't really seem like it's supposed to be funny. The forum page it links back to just reads like some edge-lord's fanfic power fantasy. Maybe I'm mistaken and this ''is'' relevant to DF, but if not, mind doing me a favour and just purging it from the wiki?
--[[Special:Contributions/130.211.1.83|130.211.1.83]] 00:33, 2 April 2020 (UTC) Jon
:I did a bit of research - given that it was deleted from Bay12 and DFFD, I think I'll follow suit and delete it from here too. (It's not permanent here - an admin could always get it back.) Thanks for bringing it to my attention. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:24, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::Thanks Lethesor! [[Special:Contributions/35.191.8.35|35.191.8.35]] 17:07, 2 April 2020 (UTC) Jon

== Regarding a certain subst tag: ==

(Stop me if I miss anything, please.)

IIRC, its a since-deprecated holdover of some kind of Wikipedian affiliation, that is pretty much purge-on-sight when found in art licensing around here. The important question is, how to proceed, if at all, when evidence is discovered of apparent holdouts of that sort [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?search=subst%3A&title=Special%3ASearch&go=Go further afield], outside the verified-for-deletion parameters? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 13:45, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

:I suggest [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Substitution MediaWiki's documentation] for information on what subst does. It's not specifically something that came from Wikipedia. One caveat is that if the template being substituted didn't exist when the page was saved, the subst: won't get replaced until you save the page again. However, in this case, it looks like I [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Licenses&diff=prev&oldid=249061 removed] the subst: part from where these templates were being used, so yes, on image pages, removing the "subst: prefix is fine.
:From the search results you linked, a lot of the subst occurrences appear to be in [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Wikitext_examples#HTML_tags HTML comments], so they won't get substituted when the page is saved. They also won't be displayed to readers, though. I suspect that's either stuff left over from version migrations or moving things to templates. I wouldn't put too much effort into dealing with those, unless you find something on a current-version page (in which case I'd say move things out of the comment if they're relevant or delete them if they're obsolete). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:06, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

== Lost password/email request ==

User: DDR
I've lost the email and password I apparently used to set up my account on this wiki, over a decade ago.

I'm [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=20574 DDR on the forum], which I still have my login for… and the mantis bugtracker, and DFFD.

Thank you. Sorry for the trouble.

:Sent a PM on the forums. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:21, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

== Further comment ==

It's hard to continue to [[wikipedia:WP:AGF|assume good faith]] in [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk%3ASilverwing235&type=revision&diff=256707&oldid=256705 this case], when the user in question tries to bury discussion of their behavior. Obviously that tactic isn't very effective, but it's a far cry from the openness and transparency required for the wiki to function as a collaborative project. Anyway, I firmly believe in [[wikipedia:WP:AAGF|WP:AAGF]] as a part of [[wikipedia:WP:CIVIL|WP:CIVIL]], which is part of the point I tried to raise in that discussion (which was then ''erased''). I'm linking these policies not because I think you're unfamiliar, but because I want to be clear on where I'm coming from. '''—'''[[User:Sriefmadsakzro|'''οɼѕаk''']] 17:48, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

:We don't have many of our own policies on things like this, but I'll take a look at the ones you linked since I'm not very familiar with them, particularly AAGF. It occurs to me that some of my comments may have come across as not following AAGF, and I apologize for that - I was (and still am) trying to follow AGF on my end, but it is challenging in this situation. I didn't intend to imply that you were not. As for the talk page edits, [[wikipedia:WP:OWNTALK|WP:OWNTALK]] seems to match my thoughts on the matter. Silverwing235's comment appears (to me) to be a more explicit acknowledgement of the criticism you raised, rather than an implicit acknowledgement by just removing your comment. I think your criticism was understood, in any case. (I do plan to respond to the AIV discussion, but am not sure how best to do that yet. In any case, I appreciate your concern for the wiki, and would like to find a solution that's acceptable to everyone involved.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:30, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

::A few phrases in my comments below are bolded—it's really just to emphasize structure, not to alter tone.'''—'''[[User:Sriefmadsakzro|'''οɼѕаk''']] 22:39, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
::---
::I actually wasn't talking about you when I referred to AAGF and my comment (and its erasure). I meant that Silverwing235 has—on this occasion and others—assumed that other editors are ''not engaging'' in good faith, and also that they are ''not assuming'' good faith (as when Silverwing235 referred to me as a “saboteur”); and that Silverwing235's own actions (''immediate'' removal of comments in ongoing discussions from their talk page—I believe this argument stands irrespective of [[wikipedia:OWNTALK|OWNTALK]]) make it hard to ''continue'' to assume good faith on their part.
::And, related to that: I have a hard time parsing many of Silverwing235's comments throughout. They're often vague and overcooked to the point of obscurity. There's very little there—even after the comment removal—that acknowledges the existence of a dispute over either past or ongoing behaviors, let alone the need for specific behaviors to change (let alone ''why'' those behaviors are wrong, or ''how'' those behaviors should change). Where there ''is'', there is also language implying that the issue is really with ''other'' editors and ''their'' disagreement—as if other editors are wrong to raise an issue in the first place. But as Silverwing235's edit summaries (and, incidentally, User+Talk comments) have repeatedly implied, they edit things to suit their personal tastes, ''not'' necessarily to correct mistakes (which they sometimes ''assert'' they are doing, but as has been seen, they frequently are not).
::---
::Another example of the general problem raised in AIV popped up yesterday: while reviewing a substantial [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Climate&curid=31137&diff=256715&oldid=247968 IP edit] (which, to me, looked good), I noticed that the edits immediately prior to it were Silverwing235's, made in late 2019 (soon after their dispute with Loci had ended in Loci's departure). And I quickly saw that [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014%3AClimate&type=revision&diff=247966&oldid=247965 this edit] was again, apparently, a “stylistic” change which Silverwing235 may honestly have believed necessary (for their own reasons), but which was [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Climate&diff=prev&oldid=256717 actually erroneous]. This sort of edit is partially why I cited IDHT and CIR (which, ''together'', are relevant here, I think) in the [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Administrative_intervention_against_vandalism&oldid=256704 AIV discussion].
::And although I can understand why Voliol might have gotten the contrary impression in the AIV discussion, I'm not advocating a high bar for entry, here. I'm saying that if '''an editor has been told to avoid imposing their own judgment where they cannot articulate a rationale''' (such as when deciding whether [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/User_talk:Silverwing235#Disruptive_Editing commas] need to be inserted before every occurence of [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Justice&diff=prev&oldid=256609 “if”] and “as”; whether a pair of parentheses should be [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Troubleshooting&diff=prev&oldid=256503 replaced] with an approximation to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#Em_dash some other punctuation]; whether “he” and “she” should be [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Justice&diff=prev&oldid=256638 replaced], or [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Justice&diff=prev&oldid=256641 eliminated], or simply [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Silverwing235&diff=247445&oldid=247317 left alone] where they already occur; or whether [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Fairy&diff=prev&oldid=256548 miscellaneous comments oblique to the rest of an article] are necessary or even appropriate), as Silverwing235 has, '''but they continue to do so''', then that presents a problem related to both judgment and behavior (hence IDHT, tangential to CIR).
::---
::Now, I hate to have these two discussions at the same time, but at this point, it would be counterproductive to fork it, so: I see that Silverwing235 has actually objected to the ''whole AIV discussion'' on the basis that they do not believe DE constitutes vandalism (which obviously it does not, in general). But as I acknowledged in my first contribution there, the prior AIV thread seemed to be the most appropriate place to make my comments due to the discussion which showed this user has faced similar criticism before. And, as I mentioned both above and in AIV, there is a pattern of civility issues which existed at least as early as that AIV thread. In particular, their [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/User_talk:Loci#Discussion_in.2C_supposedly.2C_proper_context... responses] to criticism from Loci and in this case have been a mixture of aggressive and [[wikipedia:WP:INDCRIT|passive-aggressive]]. And again, it's hard to assume good faith when critical comments are removed ''immediately'' and without either '''a discussion''' or a '''clear''' and '''substantial''' '''acknowledgment''' that those comments referred to an ongoing pattern of behavior that must change (change ''what'', change ''how'', change ''why''). I.e., yes, users control their own talk pages, but that doesn't prevent their changes from being interpreted one way or another; and in this case, it's hard not to interpret Silverwing235's changes as ''avoiding the issue''. I understand their stated desire to avoid content which [[wikipedia:WP:MASTODON|affects them emotionally]], but this is about conduct as much as it is about content.
::---
::The only reason I've raised this is to avoid continued unease. I don't like writing about disputes, and I prefer to think of the wiki community as inclusive rather than exclusive. But again, it's harder to want to edit if this behavior—not just from Silverwing235, but from ''any'' editor—is unconstrained except by laborious trial and error (a huge time ''and energy'' suck, when you consider putting up with breaks from CIVIL). And I'm not alone in this (which I mention only to emphasize that this is not personal—and I'm ''not'' invoking a silent majority, whether one exists or not, and ultimately, it's not just about this one editor).
::---
::In any case, I appreciate your participation in the matter and in conveying suggestions about specific edits to this editor.
::'''—'''[[User:Sriefmadsakzro|'''οɼѕаk''']] 22:39, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Point one: Yes, the notion about 'a more explicit acknowledgement' was accurate. A personal policy that I came up with re my talk page: 'If it would cause me significant emotional distress, either immediately or at any time during a review of the content, (aka: 'Nope, not having ''that'' around, causing trouble') it gets removed. If, IMHO, the removal itself would raise questions (as it appears to have done in this case) it will at least get a hopefully emotionally-neutral summary and acknowledgement of the thing that caused my upset to begin with. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 11:27, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

== Redirect ==

Hello. I noticed in the recent changes you reverted the edit on [[Textile Industry]], and I realized that my edit on [[Expedition Leader]] falls in the same category. The problem is that, as long as they exist, those pages will always appear on autocomplete, and they won't redirect properly if left as is. So I propose that until a decision is made for them to be deleted, that they be allowed to redirect properly to not confuse people who find them through autocomplete, like me. --[[User:Lurker|Lurker]] ([[User talk:Lurker|talk]]) 20:51, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

:The underlying cause here is a Mediawiki bug with double redirects, discussed in detail at [[DF:REDIR]]'s talk page. Making ''any'' sort of edit to the first page in the chain will fix broken double redirects, so even though I reverted your edit, [[Textile Industry]] redirects correctly now, even from the search bar. The other important point is that you need to use "cv" for the namespace in redirect targets - hardcoding a specific version like "DF2014" will have the wrong behavior when we add a new namespace. In this case, I have deleted the page you edited, since [[Expedition leader]] (lowercase L) already exists and turns up in search results (and follows [[DF:Rule N]]). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:16, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
::Very well. Thank you for your time. --[[User:Lurker|Lurker]] ([[User talk:Lurker|talk]]) 21:22, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
:::I should clarify: you're welcome to fix redirects like this that you notice, as long as you use "cv" (and there's a reminder that appears above the edit box when editing pages in the main namespace, in case that's useful). If you notice redirects whose only difference is capitalization, feel free to tag them for deletion with {{tl|delete}} and I can handle them. It occurs to me now that [[Textile Industry]] is another example of that. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:26, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

== Drastic error in judgement ensues.. ==

Derped by starting [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014_Talk:Block this up], in a way it turned out I rather shouldn't have - mind cleaning up? Thanks. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 19:43, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
:I'm not sure - what are you asking me to do? I'm hesitant to remove a discussion entirely, but if it's redundant to one on another talk page, I suppose I could archive it. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:24, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

...Yeah, archival was what I meant - one is always slightly frazzled when caught prepping to sign off for the night. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 09:49, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

== Random/cv ==

Not that I want more clutter, but what do you think about putting a [[Special:Random/cv]] link in the sidebar? '''—'''[[User:Sriefmadsakzro|'''οɼѕаk''']] 16:24, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

:Do you always want that there, or just in the current version's namespace? For reference, there are custom links added in some namespaces already, like [[Special:Random/Masterwork]] on [[Masterwork:Orc]], so a fourth "random" link on that sidebar could add some clutter. I would lean towards doing this just for versioned pages, but I'm not sure what you think is best. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:55, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

::I don't know. As I said, I'm also not interested in more clutter. Personally, I've frequently been using a bookmark to random/cv just to get a sense of what's on the wiki these days (since I've been “away”/uninvolved). Obviously I don't think that's a good reason for the wiki to change anything, though. When I wrote this on your talk page, my thinking was this: if I'm a new player (or a former one), and I want to know ''what there is'' in this huge game that I don't already know everything about, maybe I'll go to the wiki and click "random page" a few times to satisfy my curiosity. I can always click it again if I end up on something in the Masterwork: namespace (or, if it's in v0.31 etc., just click the link in the Av template). But I'll have to do that ''most'' of the time, since articles in non-cv namespaces outnumber articles in cv. (Right?) I.e., I think my suggestion is only really relevant (at least from the point-of-view of my reasons for bringing it up at all) on the landing/main page. I'm ''not'' attached to it enough to say it should go everywhere. If there's no convenient way to exclude it from pages where there are already namespace-specific random links in the sidebar, then I'm not about to suggest anyone should spend their limited time on the planet worrying about it after all.
::'''—'''[[User:Sriefmadsakzro|'''οɼѕаk''']] 18:54, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

:::[https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgContentNamespaces This Mediawiki setting] came to mind as a potential easy way to exclude certain namespaces from [[Special:Random]] by default, but unfortunately it also affects some other special pages that we may not want to change. I could probably update our custom sidebar logic (which I believe is in [[mw:common.js]]) but it likely won't be a high priority. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:50, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

== Handling "!!science!!"-style additions ==

Sorry to repeatedly bring things to you—I don't really know who does what here now, or if there's a discussion board somewhere this belongs on (other than the talk page for just one of the related articles). Could you take a look at [[DF2014_Talk:Stress#SalfordSal_and_0.47.05|this discussion]]? As I mention there, there are a couple of other edits by that IP user at around the same time that (at a glance) look like they are probably similar. In the case of [[stress]], at least, the content of the article prior to the additions is now buried under a single user's experimental results for a game version one year out-of-date.
'''—'''[[User:Sriefmadsakzro|'''οɼѕаk''']] 18:36, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

:I left a comment on the article's talk page. The timing seemed to line up with [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175214.msg8252465#msg8252465] closely enough that I also left a comment there. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:25, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

== A minor but rather elegant Gordian Knot of an error... ==

Is there any chance of fixing an [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Noise&curid=31900&diff=257273&oldid=250713| accidental red link] in the diff explanation, created when attempting to directly cite the reason's source, of an anonymous comment on the article's talk page, by citing the page instead of (obviously) the comment? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 17:06, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
:Edit summaries can't be changed, unfortunately. In case you were unaware, they can be previewed when you click the "Show preview" button (alternatively, just mentioning "the talk page" for something like this would be fine too). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:12, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

== Minor matter afoot.... ==

As it happens, I seem to have [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:House&oldid=257129| edited myself into a corner] re proper formatting on the Towers of Bologna reference over here. Some help, please?
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 19:51, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

:If you meant the "Towers of Bologna" link, you can use the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Pipe_trick pipe trick] for that (which I did in [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:House&diff=prev&oldid=258665]). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:09, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

== Technical issues ==

Found a bare wire in the wall, somewhat beyond my skill level on account of it leading to, as it were, a broken widget - (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Orientation&curid=40938&diff=258997&oldid=258309) analysis, if you please? Thanks.
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 09:51, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

== Issue with #rreplace ==

Hi Lethosor. I want to bring up a possible MediaWiki Extension-related issue: when there's a lot of #rreplace functions (part of [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:RegexFunctions|RegexFunctions]]) on a page, they start breaking and outputting blank after the first hundred instances. I've experimented with a few different regex patterns and replacements, and this number doesn't seem to change. I currently have an [[User:Doorkeeper/sandbox|example on my sandbox]]. Checking the HTML source shows nothing out of the ordinary on the newpp report.

On the [[creature token]] page, there's more than a hundred {{t|token}}s being used (e.g. {{token|GOOD|c}}); they start linking to the Main Page after a little before section O. This is because {{t|token}} uses #rreplace as a method to remove spaces in the {{{2}}} or 'token type' parameter, so that the #switch function can still match strings in case an editor leaves a space in. However since #rreplace stops working after the first hundred (returns blank), the #switch matching fails and defaults, which is currently set to Main Page (the default page was originally [[Creature]]; it should probably default to a more relevant page). But yeah, noticing misdirecting {{t|token}} links on that page is what led me to #rreplace.

Removing #rreplace from the template will fix the issue (it'll lose its space-checking ability, which doesn't seem too big a deal), but I was wondering if it's possible to fix/update #rreplace or RegexFunctions itself, since this seems like a severe limitation. I don't know if #rreplace is used on other templates or if they're used a lot anywhere else on the wiki. It may not even be a problem with the extension. Either way, I thought it would be best to bring up this issue to you (or to another admin reading this). – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 05:45, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

:It's a deliberate limitation - we have the ``wgRegexFunctionsPerPage`` config variable set to 100 (up from the default of 10). I don't know exactly what performance impact would come from increasing it. Version 2 of the extension seems to have [https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-RegexFunctions/commit/7b56f126fdb2c88375e77bca9cc7bf55eaefb3af removed all config variables], so maybe it is fine to just upgrade the extension. You can see the old documentation [https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Extension:RegexFunctions&oldid=3676687 here]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:10, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
:I also see you've made a fair number of changes to the token template. Should [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:Token/guess_type&diff=259366&oldid=259363] be reverted? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:10, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

::If regex functions are just parser functions, then wouldn't they still be [[wikipedia:WP:TLIMIT|limited by MediaWiki software]]? This means that a limit will still exist to prevent overloading, just at a much higher cap. I have no knowledge about the other configuration changes though, or if you or someone else had set up the other configs in the past differently that would affect how the templates using regex will work post-upgrade. Is this what you meant by performance? Optionally, if you're still unsure about upgrading, you could raise the limit a little instead. DF2014:Creature token currently exceeds the limit by 51. I think 200-500 is enough to fix things now and later down the line. Most other wikis I've seen that have RegexFunctions still use 1.5.0, so this is probably the better/safer option. I changed my mind about #rreplace and would like for it to remain, however the limitation is still causing issues for the page. The revert did mitigate it somewhat, but [[DF2014:Creature token#NOTHOUGHT|not perfectly]]. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 13:17, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

::I removed the function from [[Template:Token]]. It will only lose its space-checking ability in the token type param, which is not a big deal since most use the shortened forms anyway. New values w/ spaces can be added instead of #rreplace. If you have access to LocalSettings.php, setting $wgPFEnableStringFunctions to true will enable #replace, which could be used instead of #rreplace. #replace has a default limit of 1000 compared to #rreplace's 100. [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 06:07, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

:::I do have the ability to make any code changes on the backend. I doubt #replace will work in this case if we really want to replace ''all'' whitespace. Replacing just spaces should work, as long as we can find a way to prevent the Mediawiki parser from gobbling them up. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:05, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

::::Yep, just spaces. I wished Mediawiki had a core function like <nowiki>{{lc:}}</nowiki> that specifically removes spaces from a string. I was surprised one didn't exist. [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 15:36, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

:::::It wouldn't be too hard to write a custom one. I think trimming spaces from the beginning/end of a string is a lot more common than removing just spaces (as opposed to arbitrary characters) from the middle of a string, and MediaWiki generally trims spaces from the beginning/end of arguments from default, so I'm not as surprised that the functionality to remove spaces from the middle of strings doesn't exist already. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:58, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Unrelated, but I'd like to request for [[mediawikiwiki:Snippets/Horizontal lists|horizontal lists]]. This feature allows for [[wikipedia:MOS:HLIST|single-row styled lists]] using wiki markups in tables, templates, etc. A lot wikis including WP use them. I want to redesign [[Template:Navbox]], and hlists would be very useful. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 13:24, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

== May want to lock down at least the LNP page to non-registered users... ==

....for a while (two weeks, perhaps?) as we have a dumbass about...the kind of [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Utility:Lazy_Newb_Pack&oldid=259549| trollish dumbass] who has been sufficiently irritating to deserve an IP trace and a knife in the face, IMHO. "Can't troll on the internet if you're dead, hey? Yeah, let's see how you deal with that." kind of thing,
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 20:49, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

:Threats of violence are not acceptable. Consider this a warning. People will inevitably vandalize a public wiki; the appropriate course of action is to post to [[DF:AIV]] or alert an admin, as you did. I blocked the IPs in question and protected the page, so hopefully that helps with the immediate issue. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:39, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

== Copyright issues... ==

...as in, Meph's recent tileset takedown [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Copyrights produced a discussion]. Your contribution may be needed, but particularly, the exact wording of the copyright template needs some adjusting - mind pointing me at it? Thanks. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 11:51, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

:Are you referring to the "Text is available under GFDL & MIT" suggestion? It's a rather long discussion, so I'm not sure. If so, that is a [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:System_message system message], which can only be edited by admins. You can identify the appropriate message ID by overriding the language code to "qqx" as described in that article. Looks like [[mediawiki:copyright]] to me. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:41, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I was of course referring to the system message edit suggestion - thanks & happy Xmas. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 23:25, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

* Comment: While on topic, you might want to add a caveat excluding the content of games raws used on the wiki from the general copyright. I assume we are using them with Today's blessing, however, I doubt that Toady would wave his rights over their content. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 14:50, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

== Redirects ==

Thanks, I was wondering about that, glad you guys have a policy. Also on unrelated topic, would love to hear what you think regarding the [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Centralized_Discussion/SkillsLaborProfessions|terminology in use on skill articles]]. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 03:55, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
:At a high level, I am in favor of standardization. I haven't had much time to look at that discussion in detail. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:38, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
::Essentially it is a question of standardization. I outlined (1) some discrepancies in the lead of various skill articles, and I believe (2) the terms in the infobox might be misleading, and referred everywhere else differently. Input from more experienced users of this wiki would be appreciated regarding the direction to take.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 00:13, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

----
Question: How do link from the DF2014 namespace to the main namespace. For example: when I try to link to [[Dwarf Fortress Talk]] from [[DF2014:modding]] it shows broken because it only looks up DF2014 namespace and I don't know how to prefix the mainspace. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 15:32, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

:"Main" as the namespace should work (it's an alias that we've set up). Ex: [[Main:Dwarf Fortress Talk]] or [[Main:Dwarf Fortress Talk|Dwarf Fortress Talk]] —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:15, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
:: That works, thank you. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 00:13, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

== Columns-list ==

Any objections for adding the a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Columns-list Columns-list] template to replace large list represented by tables. It's easy to use, easy to adjust option that allows to fit more information horizontally (where possible) using columns and wouldn't break layout like on multi columns tables can, like on some mobile devices.

I made an example: [[User:Jan/Columns-list]] for creatures in [[Desert]]. All you need is provide desired column width or number. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 16:54, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

:Seems like a fine approach to me, as long as it's used for tables where we don't anticipate needing more than one column per entry (so I think [[Desert]] is a good use-case). As a plus, it looks like it falls back to a single-column list for browsers that don't support it. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:38, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

:: Sound good. I created [[Template:Columns-list]] --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 00:13, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Seems like I forgot to ask at the time. Can you please add to [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] this part:
<pre>
/* Template:Columns-list */
/* correct webkit/chrome uneven margin on the first column*/
.div-col dl,
.div-col ol,
.div-col ul {
margin-top: 0;
}</pre>
You can see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Div_col/styles.css here] this is the standard solution to correct an annoying behavior that sometimes cause to skew the number of items in each collumn.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 11:59, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== Found a script [[User:Lethosor/rater_0.1.js| stuck in its drawer]]... ==

...in what might be called the 'Mistakes' subsection, while cleaning up. That is to say, we have a 'Quality ranks in invalid namespaces' situation. What to do?
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:19, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

== Spam issues ==

For once, what I'd otherwise have to say is available [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Python&curid=38885&diff=263697&oldid=263696 in the diff desc]. I imagine there's also a Magic redirect that needs some of the same protective treatment. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:32, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:32, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

:Quietust protected [[Python]]. I protected [[Magic]] just now. I think that's what you meant, but could you please be more clear with your requests in the future? Thanks. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:40, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

== Mediawiki:Licenses ==
This is kind of an awkward thing to ask, but... am I allowed temporary access to edit the Mediawiki:Licenses page? There are a lot of licenses I think should be added, so it's nice and up to date. I'm happy with your decision either way, I just thought you wouldn't want me constantly bothering you for every little thing I think should be added. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 18:10, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
:No, it's not something I can grant on a per-page basis, unfortunately. But if you make the edits you want to a user page or sandbox or somewhere else, I'd be happy to copy them in. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:48, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
::Alright then, here's one for the CC0 license: [[:Template:cc-0]] -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 06:22, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
:::Here's another: [[:Template:Cc-by-nc-nd-4.0]] -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 06:28, 21 July 2022 (UTC) 
::::Aaaaand another [[:Template:Cc-by-nd-4.0]] and another [[:Template:Cc-by-sa-4.0]]
Please also include the title you want. Ideally in the format that page uses. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 06:43, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::I thought the titles within those templates were the giveaway, but very well:
*[[:Template:cc-0]] - Creative Commons Public Domain
*[[:Template:Cc-by-nc-nd-4.0]] - Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial NoDerivatives 4.0 International
*[[:Template:Cc-by-nd-4.0]] - Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivatives 4.0 International
*[[:Template:Cc-by-sa-4.0]] - Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0
*[[:Template:Cc-a-2.0]] - Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 Generic (give or take the "generic" part)
*[[:Template:Cc-by-nc-2.5]] - Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 2.5 Generic (give or take the "generic" part)
*[[:Template:Cc-2.5]] - Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 Generic
*[[:Template:Cc-2.5-au]] - Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 Australia
*[[:Template:Cc-by-2.0-uk]] - Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 UK: England & Wales
*[[:Template:Cc-by-3.0-us]] - Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 United States
*[[:Template:Stock_photo]] - Stock Photo Image

The "I do not know the license" and "found the image somewhere" templates seem to be broken or missing. Not sure if I should make templates for those or not... -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 07:24, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
:Ehh, what the hell, I made those two templates anyway. [[:Template:License_unknown]] and [[:Template:Found_image]]. If you need 'em, fine. If not, still fine. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 07:28, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
::Here's more
*[[:Template:public_domain]] - Public Domain
*[[:Template:Cc-1-uni]] - Creative Commons CC0 1.0 Universal

Sorry for the delay. I have a lot of questions about which section(s) these should go in, etc.. I'm guessing you know the answers to these, so to save us some back-and-forth, could you make the changes you want to [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Sandbox/licenses]] (a copy) and let me know when they're ready to be copied in? Thanks. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:14, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
:I made a mockup on my [[User:Zippy/sandbox|sandbox page]]. Note that the top two are marked by with a "(replace)" because I also made a "don't know" and "license unknown" template to replace the ones that seem to be missing/broken, for some reason. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 12:36, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah... I notice you still haven't added these. Did I set this up wrong? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 05:53, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
:::Well, it wasn't in a format that I could easily paste in. I had to remove the bold text, remove your parenthetical remarks, and replace " - " with "|". I think I got it right in [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Licenses&diff=266031&oldid=264287]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:26, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

May I suggest changing the "Dwarf Fortress Screenshot" choice to "Dwarf Fortress Screenshot and/or Game File"? Or making a separate one for game files? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:49, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
:What other "game files" are you thinking of? We should not be uploading full sprite sheets, for instance. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:22, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
::You didn't see my reply in the talk page about the game version? I showed a screenshot of a reply straight from Kitfox games allowing use of any game images. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 22:55, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
:::It helps to link to what you're talking about. Is it [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Versions&diff=278707&oldid=278700 this reply]? If so, that's referring to individual sprites, not sprite sheets. I have serious copyright concerns around uploading sprite sheets directly, and to me, "game files" sounds like files ''from the game'', e.g. sprite sheets. If you want me to change the dropdown to add "sprites" or maybe "individual sprites", that's fine with me. Let me know if I'm misunderstanding. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:01, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
::::I can't for the life of me understand how it would be okay to post every single sprite here (which we'd have to do eventually, to cover everything), but uploading an entire sprite sheet is an issue? I'm sure one of those sites dedicated to posting sprite sheets is gonna do that anyway. Granted, I can't think of a time when we would need to upload a whole sprite sheet. I guess "Dwarf Fortress Screenshot and/or Sprite(s)" would make more sense, yeah. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 23:19, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::Sprite sheets are paid content. If someone posts them all, there is not much stopping someone from making a pirated copy of "premium" DF, and I am trying to stay as far away from that as we can. I can't control what piracy takes place on other sites. If there is a way we can avoid the technical overhead of uploading all 40,000 possible tiles, I am open to suggestions. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:35, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::All the creature sprites are added. Are you comfortable changing "Dwarf Fortress Screenshot" to "Dwarf Fortress Screenshot and/or Game Sprite"? I had to use that specific license for all the sprites I uploaded, so I think it would make sense to change the license to match that. Though this is ''your'' wiki so... completely up to you. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 05:44, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::::Done (and it's not just "my" wiki). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:55, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

== "Watch" Template ==

Sorry to keep bothering you with stuff, but I made a "watch" template on my [[User:Zippy/sandbox|sandbox page]]. It can be used for those ambiguous 50/50 situations where the copyright infringement is possible, but unknown. Do I have your permission to make that template a reality? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 13:54, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

:I think it should be more specific, like {{tl|possible copyright issue}} and "the copyright status of this image is unconfirmed". —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:44, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
::I changed it, but if the template is allowed, you might have to do some CSS changes so that one side isn't a mismatching blue. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 16:22, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
:::Take a look at {{tl|ambox/type}} for a list of valid types. Notably, "green" is not valid and falls back to the default, but "style" or "yellow" match pretty closely. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:18, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
::::Fair enough. So.. am I allowed to make the template or..? Not sure how this works. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 17:47, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::There are no restrictions on creating templates. That said, I still strongly recommend that you make the template more specific. "watch" is pretty vague for a single-purpose template like this. Can you rename it to {{tl|possible copyright issue}} or something similar? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:21, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
::::::Done. I even made the respective doc page. ([[:Template:Watch|Actual template]]) -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:02, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::::Again, it's still named {{tl|watch}}, which I don't recommend (partly since Mediawiki already uses that term for [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Watching_pages something else]), but thanks for the docs. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:05, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
::::::::Done, but should the "watch" redirect stay so that it's not dissociated with images that already have the template? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:08, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::Yeah, that's a good catch - the redirect should make it easier on us. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:13, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

== Request for interwiki (inter-language) link to Chinese wiki ==

Sorry for repeated content, but I'm wondering if the message has been captured from talk page of Main Page. So I decide to paste my content here as well. We would be really appreciated if interwiki link pointing to our site is enabled, as ''Dwarf Fortress'' itself has not been fully translated to Chinese ever, and our users might find it more convenient to search by English words on original English wiki, and then they may refer to the translated ones on Chinese wiki. Looking forward to a reply about whether it is possible or not. Thanks!

Hello! I'm the admin of [https://dfzh.huijiwiki.com/ Chinese Dwarf Fortress wiki], and I've previous put its link on the main page. We've now enabled interwiki link from our site to English site, and we wish to get one back from English site to CN site as well. Hope that is possible, and thanks so much! The URL for our site should be: <code>https://dfzh.huijiwiki.com/wiki/$1</code> [[User:Xjtu-blacksmith|xjtu-blacksmith 黑山雁]] ([[User talk:Xjtu-blacksmith|talk]]) 01:20, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

:Hi - sorry for not replying on the main page. We just recently fixed an issue preventing us from making configuration changes like this, so I hope I can add this soon. Thanks for reaching out! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:39, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
::Replied on [[Talk:Main Page]]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:45, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

== Cannot create new user account ==

I'm thinking I'm doing all right, but the system is always saying:

''There seems to be a problem with your login session; this action has been canceled as a precaution against session hijacking. Please resubmit the form.''

at my attempts; I tried also to change email address with no good effect.

Is anything I can do to solve this issue? Thanks --[[Special:Contributions/81.56.3.43|81.56.3.43]] 10:39, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

:I'm not sure, sorry. It's working for me and other people: [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Special:Log/newusers]. Try clearing your browser's cache, or using another browser. There may be a hidden field to catch spammers, so try avoiding autofill. Also make sure the captcha is working - you could try turning on Javascript if it's off. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:00, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Ok, I was able to perform the procedure using another device; I was using a linux desktop, I completed the account creation by an android tablet.
:Huh, I was successful using a Linux desktop. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:17, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

== Version number ==

Are you sure about changing the release information version number from: <code>0.50.x</code> to: <code>50.x</code>? This [[version number#Example|version numbering]] has been the convention for over two decade, with [[DF2014:Release information|current]] and past articles named so. Note that while posts on steam use the shorthand Tarns release in the game files still use the original convention --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 01:56, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
:I am sure. It's not just posts - the game itself identifies itself as "50.03" currently. I'm not personally a fan of the change, and I realize it's inconsistent with past versions, but it's what Toady is using now. I do recall seeing "0.50.01" in some .txt files originally, but as of 50.03, nearly all of those occurrences have been updated to "50.01", so I think it was originally overlooked. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:42, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

== Changes to diagram ==

Did something changed with diagram tag? its output all across the wiki seem more colorful than I recall e.g. [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Trap_design#Crosshair_trapping]. Here is a [https://ibb.co/yPSbcRq screenshot] for reference in case it is something on my end, that pinkish hue is new. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 15:35, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
:Hmm, looks normal on Firefox for me, [https://i.imgur.com/aHvPhw4.png screenshot] [[User:Ziusudra|Ziusudra]] ([[User talk:Ziusudra|talk]]) 16:07, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
:Odd, I cannot reproduce on Firefox or Chrome either (looks the same as [[User:Ziusudra|Ziusudra]]'s screenshot to me). Could you check your Javascript console ({{k|ctrl/cmd|shift|i}}) and see if you have any errors on that page? You can ignore any output from "JQMIGRATE". —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:14, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
:: Seems like it is something on my end, probably going to be resolved once I can reboot. Thank for checking. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 16:50, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

== Account to update Book please, and thank you! ==

Hello! I was just looking at quires and books in v50, and wanted to confirm that the value bug for books is still present.

Given an unbound, written quire valued at 57#, the final value after adding 20# of binding and thread is 48# in v50.

I would love an account to note this or at least mention it on the Book talk page. Thanks!

You can contact me at welkin.shibboleth@gmail.com
--[[Special:Contributions/68.171.119.95|68.171.119.95]] 04:24, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

:You should be able to create an account at [[Special:CreateAccount]]. Are you having trouble with it? (You can also made edits without creating an account, like you just did here.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:20, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

== Food Guide ==
I was trying to edit the one for the current steam version but it kept redirecting me, I'll make the changes to that one and revert my changes to the old one. [[User:Kenji 03|Kenji 03]] ([[User talk:Kenji 03|talk]]) 09:36, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

== Graphics policies ==

Hi, I dug through some of the data in my installation to figure out the graphic status thought bubbles (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Status_icon). I'm quite willing to update that page with the information, however, I'm not sure what policies surround uploading graphics. Is there a specific size or format?
[[User:Briezee|Briezee]] ([[User talk:Briezee|talk]]) 02:45, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Just updated [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Versions#Premium.2FClassic]]. As for size, I would recommend trying to get screenshots at the "native" resolution, i.e. not zoomed in or out, to avoid blur caused by DF zooming. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:27, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

== saltwater crocodile / raws ==

Thanks for the help. been meaning to do something about the crocs for a while now. So I take it all the raw txt files are already on the wiki, and the creature pages just need updating? --[[User:Boromonokli|Boromonokli]] ([[User talk:Boromonokli|talk]]) 19:52, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Yes, as described at [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Versions#v50_migration]] (just updated), raw pages have yet to be created, but they can be created manually as you found. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:21, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
::Have any raws been changed in v50? --[[User:Boromonokli|Boromonokli]] ([[User talk:Boromonokli|talk]]) 23:17, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:::Not sure, there are ~1300 raw pages on this wiki and I haven't looked at them all. But if you pull in the correct version of the raws ("v50" or "DF2014"), you shouldn't have to worry. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:04, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== Wiki mobile layout ==

I've seen this touched upon in a few different discussions but I think with the steam release and influx of new people it's important to push this again. The wiki has very little going in terms of "mobile-friendliness" right now and I don't think it would take too many changes to get it going in a good direction.

Either we use the MediaWiki extension [https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Extension:MobileFrontend Extension:MobileFrontend] or we adjust the CSS/HTML of the website as is to make it at least a little more user-friendly on mobile.

Happy to help out on this, I do web development as a day job so I can offer support here if needed. Cheers.
--[[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 15:35, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== Vermin Lookup Template ==

I was wondering, is it alright if you change up the <code>verminlookup</code> template like you did the <code>creaturelookup</code> one? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 06:35, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
:Are you asking me to do it? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:16, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
::Well, yeah. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 18:23, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
:::So uhhhhhhhh... Leth, my man. Are you gonna... change the template or...? Edit: I could just use the v50 creature template still if that's okay with you. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 03:34, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
::::My time is limited, and the way you asked kind of rubbed me the wrong way, although I don't think you meant to. I'll get to it. It doesn't require any special permissions, and it's pretty much just copying what I did for creaturelookup (I'm going to edit a few templates to pass through an "image" argument, then copy the image piece from {{tl|CreatureInfo v0.40}} into the innermost template), so I would suggest taking a look at the changes so you can familiarize yourself with how the templates work. There are a lot of layers, but they're pretty much standard MediaWiki templates until you get down to {{tl|tag}}, {{tl|tagvalue}}, and others that use DFRawFunctions. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:31, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

::::To be fair, {{tl|VerminInfo}} ended up having two minor differences from {{tl|CreatureInfo v0.40}} that I resolved (described in [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:CreatureInfo_v0.40&diff=prev&oldid=285703 this edit]), but the edits to {{tl|verminlookup/0}} and {{tl|verminlookup/aux}} were just a matter of passing through an "image" parameter, similar to {{tl|creaturelookup/0}}. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:44, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::Sorry, I wasn't trying to sound rude. I couldn't tell if you were waiting for one of us to change it or if you were already planning on doing it. The irony is, I was trying to sound less pushy and somehow ended up sounding more pushy. Are you also able to add the "toggle" thing to the vermin infoboxes like that of the other creatures? Edit: If you're not too busy that is. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:13, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::I already did. It should behave identically to the creature infoboxes (and does on my end). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:02, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::::Ah yes, you're right, sorry. My laptop wasn't refreshing any pages for some reason. Thank you, the work you do on this wiki is phenomenal. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 23:07, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::::I should also add (because I don't remember if I said this before on another page), are you alright with me using the "v50_buildings" template I made for all the buildings in the v50 game? I don't want to keep bothering you for every single template. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 23:13, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::v50 pages should be using {{tl|buildings}}, which will use {{tl|v50 buildings}} automatically on v50 pages. This is important so that future version migrations (if any) work. I confirmed that I see the v50 template on [[Bars]] and [[Altar]]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:46, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

== Reducing space taken up by headers ==

Migrated articles have a ton of vertical space taken by headers, could we reduce it a bit?

# Could you combine the bullets in [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice]] to one line?
# Any objections to [[Template_talk:ArticleVersion#.22Note_that_some_content_may_still_need_to_be_updated..22|my suggestion here]] to combine the av and migrated boxes into one before I go do it? Especially now that the Quality template shows up between them. [[User:OddballJoe|OddballJoe]] ([[User talk:OddballJoe|talk]]) 18:41, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

:I am hesitant to do (1) because I want to make certain points obvious, and I think the link to the discussion page is important. For (2) I replied at that talk page. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:00, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

== Version history reorg ==

Planning to rearrange how version pages work a little, wanted to give you a heads-up in case you object. [[Talk:Release_information]] --[[User:OddballJoe|OddballJoe]] ([[User talk:OddballJoe|talk]]) 22:26, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
:Thanks, haven't had a lot of time to keep up-to-date but I weighed in briefly. Will watch that page. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:43, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
:: When you have a chance, could you or another admin look over the edit I proposed at [[Template talk:Release notes]] and execute it or provide feedback? Thanks. -[[User:OddballJoe|OddballJoe]] ([[User talk:OddballJoe|talk]]) 23:00, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

== do_it_right best practices ==

This - [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#We_are_doing_this.21_Let_us_do_it_right.]] - is awesome! Good on you if you wrote it.

No action needed, just a note of appreciation. I endeavor to wiki righteously!
--[[User:Jerimee|Jerimee]] ([[User talk:Jerimee|talk]]) 02:17, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

:That predates me by a few years, actually. You have [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal&dir=prev&action=history several people] to thank for that. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:32, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

== front page green banner weirdness ==

If you view the front page logged out there is some misformatted markup above the green v50 info for editors site notice. I couldn't figure out how to correct it or where it was being inserted.

It reads <nowiki>border-radius: 4px; -webkit-border-radius: 4px; -moz-border-radius: 4px; -o-border-radius: 4px; -ms-border-radius: 4px;</includly><nnclude>
Template:Documntation <clude> "></nowiki> and inspect source shows goat.jpg with alt text "rip this wiki."

Where should I report this? Is a screenshot helpful?
--[[User:Jerimee|Jerimee]] ([[User talk:Jerimee|talk]]) 00:27, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
:About a week ago or whatever, we had a really, ''really'' nasty vandal. That's an old leftover of his "work". --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 01:13, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

:I just cleared the site-wide cache. That didn't seem to have an immediate effect on the main page, so I purged it manually as well. If you see any other instances of this, feel free to purge the cache yourself: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Purge —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:20, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
::Seems to be gone now! [[User:Jerimee|Jerimee]] ([[User talk:Jerimee|talk]]) 02:31, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

== ru colon ==

What does <nowiki>ru:</nowiki>, as in <nowiki>[[ru:Language]]</nowiki>, do? Is "ru" is a name space? Maybe one created programmatically or with permission restrictions? Can you point me to where the doc is or where it should be? If it doesn't exist I'll create it as best I can. Thanks. [[User:Jerimee|Jerimee]] ([[User talk:Jerimee|talk]]) 06:24, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
: interwiki link to russian site... [[User:Jerimee|Jerimee]] ([[User talk:Jerimee|talk]]) 23:33, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

== Adding vermin to the "Creatures" page... ==

May I ask why vermin and other creatures are on seperate pages? And can I add the vermin list to the creatures list? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 11:28, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
:It's not something I decided and I'm not the only one you should ask (i.e. I would ask on a talk page somewhere), but my guess (based on several other distinctions I've seen across the wiki) is that it's due to vermin having different characteristics from other creatures. [[Vermin]] gives a far better explanation than I could. The two options I see are to either make more prominent cross-links in the explanatory text at [[Creature]] and [[Vermin]], or include the vermin table but make it very clear that vermin are different from other creatures. I don't really have a strong preference, although I do tend to stick with the established workflows (i.e. this distinction has worked for >10 years... not that we shouldn't improve it). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:23, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

== Plant and Tree Infoboxes ==
Me and Oddballjoe were wondering if you could add the image pass to the plants and tree infoboxes. If you have any time to spare that is. Those template pages look super outdated and I can't tell if they use the "aux" templates or not. I made a proposal for the trees:
<gallery widths="223px" heights="324px">
tree_infobox_example.png|Trunk and tile.
tree_infobox_example2.png|Trunk, branch, leaves and tile.
</gallery>
I mean, if that's easier to set up then the toggle thing. Again, if you want, and if you have the time. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 01:17, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
:I like the side-by-side idea. I'll try to find time this week. From a quick spot-check: [[Abaca]] uses {{tl|treelookup/0}}, which uses {{tl|treelookup/aux}}, which uses one of a few TreeInfo templates. It was using an old one for main (v50) pages, which I [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:Treelookup/aux&diff=prev&oldid=290794 just fixed here] - is that what you meant by "super outdated"? That's the only issue I saw (a template being old doesn't necessarily mean it's outdated).
:Anyway, if you're interested in editing templates, I'd suggest watching the edit history of all of these to see what changes are needed. Your [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:Treelookup/aux&diff=prev&oldid=290788 image change to treelookup/aux] looks fine to me, but it wouldn't have done anything by itself without corresponding changes to the other templates I mentioned. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:54, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
::No matter how hard I eyeball the edit history of the other templates, I can ''never'' figure out what the sweet hell I'm missing. Adding <code><nowiki>{{{image|}}}</nowiki></code> doesn't seem to do anything. I have no idea what other components must be added after that - to any page. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 06:43, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
:::Have you decided when you're gonna update the plant and tree infoboxes? For the record, it's no rush. Any time you choose is perfectly fine by me, even if it's next year. I added all the trunk and log sprites/colors, so that's that one done. I personally prefer the side-by-side proposal for the trees, but it's up to you, since you're the head admin. Also, I think the soillookup template (and any other similar template I probably can't think of right now) should have the toggle thing as well, but again, all up to you. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 01:05, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

== spheres ==

I found a list of 130 "spheres" here - https://github.com/DFHack/df-structures/blob/master/df.language.xml - and thought they were related to symbols. On comparison, they don't seem to be. What are spheres? [[User:Jerimee/spheres]]

''(I understand that the data at DFHack is structured for that mod, and the files there are not DF game files or DF raws. On line 209 I see you're importing the symbols directly. I'm interested in df.language.xml because it appears to structure the game data.)''

--[[User:Jerimee|Jerimee]] ([[User talk:Jerimee|talk]]) 23:33, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

:Could you ask DFHack questions in one of the [https://docs.dfhack.org/en/stable/docs/Introduction.html#getting-help DFHack support channels] instead? I don't personally know the answer to this one. (If by line 209 you mean [https://github.com/DFHack/df-structures/blob/8ae81f8d8f1f96d82b9074b205073bb8e8d29f96/df.language.xml#L209 this], that is only specifying the global vector that contains instances of "language_symbol".) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:10, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

== Quality rating misunderstanding ==

Hi, I noticed you have had to undo a small percentage of my quality ratings. I was trying to be helpful, and always checking the [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality|quality]] guidelines, so I thought I'd drop you a comment here, so I can avoid wasting your time in future. To be specific, I think I am misinterpreting the use of [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality#Tattered|"tattered"]] rating, and I'm hoping you can give me some more specific guidelines. Also, for context: I have only started to get familiar with the wiki, as an editor, for a month or so, but I realise that there is currently an extremely high number of unrated pages post-v50.
 
I think my main points of confusion are the [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality#Tattered|tattered]] guidelines mentioning "lacks information", 'inaccurate information' and 'strictly need improvement'. From my perspective, one, or sometimes, all of these criteria, were the reason for my quality rating edit. Often, I felt these pages also very clearly didn't meet the criteria of a [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality#Tattered|"fine"]] rating, as defined on the same [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality|quality]] page, and consequently, leaves me quite perplexed. This is a long preamble to give context to, and hopefully not sound offensive when I say, that though I realise edit comments aren't very useful for detailed explanations, just commenting along the lines of 'that is not what the rating is for' has left me more, rather than less, confused.
Hopefully there is a clear misunderstanding of the guidelines on my part. However, if it is not so obvious in retrospect; considering the large number of currently unrated pages, could I suggest a review of the wording and examples on the [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality|quality]] rating page?
--[[User:Alpacalypse|Alpacalypse]] ([[User talk:Alpacalypse|talk]]) 13:26, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

:Sorry, I made a hasty edit and summary and should have clarified. What I meant is that ''only'' tagging an article as "tattered" isn't really what the quality rating system is for, because that doesn't tell the user ''what'' is wrong with the article (is it outdated? incomplete? something else?). I think a combination of marking the article with {{tl|quality|tattered}} and marking the affected information with {{tl|old}} or another appropriate template would help make it more obvious what the problem is. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:42, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
::Ahh, that makes a lot of sense, thanks for clarifying. In future, if I am just doing a quick edit like that for rating/improvement notes, that would benefit from elaboration, I'll be sure to leave a comment on the talk page. On a related note, I hadn't properly read the {{tl|Old}} documentation, and thought it was redundant with {{tl|Migrated article}}. So, one final question: In this case, if it looks like the only issues are with recent version changes, would it make sense to ''replace'' <nowiki>{{migrated article}}</nowiki> with <nowiki>{{old}}</nowiki> ( presumably <nowiki>{{old|v=50."xx"}}</nowiki> ), rather than leave both tags? --[[User:Alpacalypse|Alpacalypse]] ([[User talk:Alpacalypse|talk]]) 17:19, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
:::Sure, I think that makes sense. I think {{tl|migrated article}} is less specific and mostly for unchecked content that may or may not be outdated (while {{tl|old}} and similar templates are more specific to what needs to change). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:23, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
::::I thought it might be a good idea to share my current edit of [[XML_dump|XML dump]]. I suspect it may now be a bit too cluttered with (possibly redundant) info from tags, but I thought it might be a good reference for you to consider. Feel free to just revert, but if you have any notes on best practices for an article like this, I'll take them on board. Very brief overview of reasoning in summary comment. --[[User:Alpacalypse|Alpacalypse]] ([[User talk:Alpacalypse|talk]]) 17:48, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

== No problem ==

Hello Lethosor,

Thanks for reverting the page back. I've been a fan of the DF wiki for quite a while, and when I saw the
vandalism, I wanted to nip it in the bud immediately. I'm glad someone who knew how to repair
things more efficiently found the solution quickly!

Sincerely,
johnf5007
--[[User:Johnf5007|Johnf5007]] ([[User talk:Johnf5007|talk]]) 23:44, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

== Fighting against vandalism ==

Hello, I noticed that recently the wiki has been attacked by vandals. How should I notify the administrators if such a thing keeps occurring? [[User:Lowtax|Lowtax]] ([[User talk:Lowtax|talk]]) 23:58, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
:They have already been notified (myself included) and have dealt with it. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:03, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
::Okay, understood. Is there any noticeboard for vandalism for future incidents? [[User:Lowtax|Lowtax]] ([[User talk:Lowtax|talk]]) 01:10, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
:::[[DF:AIV]] can work, especially for isolated incidents. Usually people will notice pretty quickly for larger incidents. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:29, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
::::Okay, I'll keep that in mind. [[User:Lowtax|Lowtax]] ([[User talk:Lowtax|talk]]) 15:45, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::Yes, I'm sure you will the next time you try to vandalize our site. Don't you have anything better to do with your spare time? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 16:38, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

== (Title here) ==

Okay then I shall do more edits and try to upload my data. I just wanted to update the data on the wiki from my steam guides.
I tried reaching out from bay12games forums but I do not know if you got the message so I am reverting here.
Here are my steam guides for you to see :https://steamcommunity.com/id/Sniper231996/myworkshopfiles/?section=guides&appid=975370
--[[User:Sniper231996|Sniper231996]] ([[User talk:Sniper231996|talk]]) 08:16, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

User talk:Lethosor

2023-12-05T08:10:44Z

Sniper231996: /* (Title here) */

User talk:Lethosor

2023-12-05T08:10:20Z

Sniper231996: /* (Title here) */ new section

{{User:Lethosor/header}}
{{Archive|
* [[/archive1|Archive 1 (February-August 2013)]]
* [[/archive2|Archive 2 (Sept. 2013 - May 2014)]]
}}
__TOC__
{{clear}}

==Bot requests==
<div style="" class="plainlinks">
[{{fullurl:User talk:Lethosor|action=edit&section=1&editintro={{urlencode:User:Lethosor/edit intro/bot}}}} '''Add a new request''']
</div>

=== Underpopulated categories ===

Many categories in the DF2014 namespace don't list some of the pages that have the category link. An empty edit on a page (well, any edit) will correct this, but only for that page. This sounds like a job for a bot. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] ([[User talk:VengefulDonut|talk]]) 19:00, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
:I'm pretty sure that's a cache problem, so I'll try rebuilding link tables on the server side and see if that helps (it would probably be a lot faster than sending a bot around to null-edit every page). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:41, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
::This has been fixed. The problem was that the server that actually runs the job queue was still using the old configuration (without the DF2014 namespace). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:17, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

== Diagram ==

Take a look over [[DF talk:diagram|here]]. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] ([[User talk:VengefulDonut|talk]]) 15:45, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

== Ceramic Industry page assistance. ==

(Message here) --[[User:DorfyDave|DorfyDave]] ([[User talk:DorfyDave|talk]]) 04:16, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the help with the ceramic industry stuff.

I see what you are doing with the thumbnail workflows on other pages, so if you would rather it be small and let the reader expand it, that would be fine.

I was thinking that the pages looked better with the intro section before the regular content, keeping it separate from the auto TOC / Header listed content, but if you prefer that everything follow the layered header format, that's fine.

:My primary concern was the wrapping caused by inserting the full-size flowchart next to a section. It looks like you've addressed that by splitting up the flowchart, which looks good to me. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:48, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

== Removing/restoring [[Main:Fruit]] ==

Not that I am protesting it, but why exactly did you remove and then restore the [[Main:Fruit]] page? Because to me, all that happened now is that the creation entry on the page's history is gone, which isn't really anything notable either.
--{{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|13:03|August 26, 2014}} 13:03, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
:I deleted it at first because I didn't realize AutoRedirect wasn't handling section redirects properly, then restored it when I noticed it was broken. That article's [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Fruit&action=history history] still shows your revision, so I'm not sure what you mean - is it missing from [[Special:RecentChanges]]? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:07, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
::The creation entry I was talking about was actually the first entry, and the entry that is now the only one was the second before you removed it. When I created the page I first had it directly redirect to [[cv:Tree#Fruit]], which after testing didn't work. I usually save the page when the preview doesn't show a red link and the link is correct, and after saving I test it, This time, however, the link in the preview was blue and correct, but actually following the redirect only led to [[cv:Tree]] instead of [[cv:Tree#Fruit]]. The entry you are seeing now is the result of fixing this by making it into a double redirect through [[cv:Fruit]].
:::It looks to me like your first edit was to [[DF2014:Fruit]] - when [[Main:Fruit]] didn't exist, it would have automatically redirected to [[DF2014:Fruit]], so it might have appeared to exist when it didn't. (The problem here is that I made AutoRedirect follow redirect chains internally, since Mediawiki's maximum-redirect setting is buggy, so a nonexistent [[Main:Fruit]] would actually redirect to what [[cv:Fruit]] redirects to - the problem is that it ignores sections at the moment, so section redirects will need to be manually created until I can fix that.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:18, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

== settings-manager ==

I don't know where to put it because I don't have a github account and don't know if you have a personal thread for your scripts like the others, but couldn't you add a TEXT mode entry in line 116 of your settings-manager script?
--[[Special:Contributions/78.250.50.116|78.250.50.116]] 04:40, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
:I originally excluded it because it only works on Linux, but I'll add it back for Linux users. Thanks! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:44, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

== Interesting glitch with redirects ==

I went to see what "Candy" was by going to a page named "Candy", and I found out that it meant Adamantine. But I saw that I got redirected to [[v0.34:Adamantine]], which shouldn't happen seeing as mainspace redirects should always go to the cv namespace. So I went back to fix it, and I saw that [[main:Candy]] redirected to [[main:Adamantine]], so I went there to fix it. But that page redirected properly to [[DF2014:Adamantine]]. This is where it gets interesting.

So when you go to [[main:Candy]], you get redirected to [[main:Adamantine]] which in turn redirects to [[DF2014:Adamantine]]. But - for some reason, you don't get sent to [[DF2014:Adamantine]], but to [[v0.34:Adamantine]]. Going to [[main:Adamantine]] in the first place redirects you to [[DF2014:Adamantine]] properly.

I have no idea how this happens, and since you maintain most of the wiki, I think you would be the right person to tell this to.
--{{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|13:42|November 01, 2014}} 13:42, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:My best guess is that the [[Main:Candy]] redirect is cached and still points to [[v0.34:Adamantine]]. Our [[DF:REDIR|new policy]] is to keep redirects in versioned namespaces, so feel free to tag any broken redirects (in the main namespace) that you find with {{tl|bad redirect}} and I'll delete them. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 14:48, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

:I just saw a redlink on the exploratory tunnels page(redlink to [[DF2014:Break]]) and went to create it, when I discovered that the pages for Break existed for 23a and 40d, but not for 34.11 and 40.x. I went to check those to import content, and they turned out to be redirects. So I just redirected [[DF2014:Break]] to [[DF2014:On break]] and when I went to create additional redirects in the mainspace, I found that [[main:Break]] redirects to [[main:On break]] which redirects to [[cv:On break]]. But, again, it ultimately did not redirect to cv:On break but to v0.34:Break. I think that if it is indeed a cache problem we should rebuild redirect caches. {{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|12:08|November 02, 2014}}
:PS: Or just batch-delete all of this kind of redirects. {{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|12:09|November 02, 2014}}
:I don't like "bumping" this message like this, but since it's rather annoying, and ten days have been since I told you, almost all of these redirects are broken. Take a look at [[main:Aluminium]] for example, it goes to its 34.11 page. I think that it goes like this; when a page in the mainspace redirects to another page in the mainspace, which in turn goes to a cv space page, it goes to 0.34 instead of the current version. Going to the main>cv redirect initially does not cause this glitch. {{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|12:46|November 12, 2014}}
::It would be helpful if you could add {{tl|bad redirect}} to those pages (preferably before the "#REDIRECT" line) so I can delete them. I'm not sure what's causing the problem, but I'll see if I can override broken redirects with the AutoRedirect extension as well. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:18, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

== Migrated citations ==

As seen on [[DF2014:Dragonfire]], migrated citations can become confused, pointing to non-existent pages. I'm not sure how to fix it, but in general citations shouldn't automatically change what they are pointing at.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 18:26, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

== <nowiki>{{ArticleVersion}}</nowiki> bug ==

I just found another very strange bug regarding the articleversion template. The more research I did on it, the weirder it got. The bug is that when you are not logged in, and you visit a non-DF2014 page with an av template, the latest version shows as v0.40.16 instead of v0.40.18. {{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|10:17|November 25, 2014}}
PS: This bug does not replicate when you are logged in. {{User:Latias1290/Sig/src|10:19|November 25, 2014}}
:This is because pages are cached for logged-out users. You can refresh individual pages by adding "?action=purge" to the end of the URL (or possibly by null-editing them). It appears to occur in DF2014 pages as well - [[DF2014:Hemp]], for example. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:49, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

== Lost password request ==

I've forgotten my password. User: Bumber

:You don't seem to have an email address associated with your account. I sent a message to Bumber on the forums, assuming that's you. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:24, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks.

== Redirects ==

Thank you for the correction. I felt I might be doing it wrong but couldn't find an example of it done right to copy. Now I know. :) [[User:Volatar|Volatar]] ([[User talk:Volatar|talk]]) 16:02, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

== v0.42.05 raws update ==

Just a friendly reminder that the wiki raws need updated to pick up the [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Page_request/List&diff=222917&oldid=222913 new critters in v0.42.05]. It would also be nice if your bot could auto-create the new creature pages so we don't end up with [[back bear man]] and the like.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 23:05, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

:Quietust updated the extension, but I'm having trouble deploying the changes for some reason (which Emily can hopefully figure out). I don't know if I'll have enough time this/next week to write a script to create the new creature pages - if not, Quietust might have something still laying around from 0.34/0.40. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:45, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

== Page move reminder ==

[[DF2014:Box]] to [[DF2014:Container]] please. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 23:01, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

:Done. It took me a second to figure out what the issue was - I'm surprised Mediawiki wouldn't let you move a page over another one that was just a redirect. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:21, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks! [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 22:50, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

== v0.43.05 raws update ==

Just a friendly reminder that the wiki raws need updated to pick up the changes through v0.43.05.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 19:48, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

:Done. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:43, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

== Multiple redirects leads to incorrect namespace ==

Discussion here: [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Centralized_Discussion#Solution_for_this]] [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 10:49, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

== Vandalism ==

We had an attack on August 3rd. [[Talk:Main Page (fix plz)]] ‎needs moved back to Talk:Main Page, and the rest of [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Special:Contributions/Etihand the vandal's handiwork] can just be deleted. I can't think of any legitimate reason a user would need to move Talk:Main Page, so it should probably be move-locked to prevent future hijacks.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 15:53, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

:It should be cleaned up now. Sorry for the delay there. [[Main Page]] was already move-protected, but apparently that didn't apply to the talk page, so both should be move-protected now too. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:29, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

== Sorry, I need a password reset ==

I just logged in, saw the post about passwords needing to be changed. (Feeling all smart since I just setup a password manager) I updated my password, only to realize I didn't save the new password correctly in the manager. I tried to reset it but the wiki had a note saying to contact you since it can't do outbound email right now.

My user name is [[Frobnic8]].

My most notable contribution here are the PDF versions of the old Bronzemurder illustration by Tim Denee: [[Bronzemurder]]

The files are still hosted at my website. To prove it's me, I've also left you a note at http://eldritch.org/erskin/temp/df_wiki.txt

Sorry for the hassle, but if you could set me a temporary password or send me a link to a password reset to the associated email address for the account, that'd be awesome.

Thanks!

--[[Special:Contributions/70.163.4.102|70.163.4.102]] 15:40, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

:Done —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:59, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

::Thanks! --[[User:Frobnic8|Frobnic8]] ([[User talk:Frobnic8|talk]]) 02:51, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

== Password reset ==

I could have sworn I did this already, but now there's no sign of my edit here. Dunno what happened to it. Can I please get a password reset for user Urist McDorf. I believe the email info associated is still good (j*y@y*m). Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/108.49.199.220|108.49.199.220]] 06:56, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

== Totally failed to make an account ==

Really think I did everything right.

The Captcha app you are using says it "shutdown" on 3-31-2018 so i'm wondering if that's the issue. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:216.201.251.142|216.201.251.142]]

:Yeah, we know about it. Emi and Briess are working on some upgrades, and we'll try to upgrade the captcha once it's done. In the meantime, you can PM me on the forums (or email me at gmail.com) and I think I can set up an account for you. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 13:41, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

== Chemist Page Quality Rating ==

The quality rating of the [[chemist]] page is listed as *Superior*, despite being a stub. I can't even decrease the quality down to +Fine+ using the rating script.
I added the memory attribute as stated by Toady's recent FotF reply, and I'll insert the relevant [[topics]] for the skill, but there's probably a lot more work to be done.
--[[User:Bumber|Bumber]] ([[User talk:Bumber|talk]]) 06:39, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

:The "override" link [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Chemist&action=history worked for me]. You have to click on the rating at the top that you want to select, then submit. The calculated score is unreliable, to say the least. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:27, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

::I couldn't figure out how the override worked and just assumed it was an admin thing. Didn't realize you had to click one of the quality options at the top. —[[User:Bumber|Bumber]] ([[User talk:Bumber|talk]]) 22:18, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

== [Proposition] - Wiki preview popups ==

Hi there.

I've read quite a bit of wikipedia these last few days (the real wikipedia website), and I've come to use their preview feature quite a few times.
In case you don't know, the preview is a little JS pop-up that shows an image and some text when you hover a link.
So, you get a rough idea of what the thing is, and you don't have to load the full page (you can still if you click the link).

This feature is not in DF wiki, and I was thinking maybe it could be, as it greatly increase readability (since you don't have to open a new page, read the first few lines, go back, and waste time figuring out where you were; for every topic you're unaware of).

I'm not sure whether I should ask you, or Briess or anyone, but since you've made quite some wiki Extensions, I'll ask anyway.

So, do you think it could be a viable idea to turn this feature on ?

Here's a mediawiki tutorial on how to set this up, just in case :
[https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Popups]

Cheers ! =D
- Spriggans
Aug, 17 2018

:It does sound useful, but it claims to require MediaWiki 1.25+, so it'll probably have to wait until we finish upgrading. There are instructions for 1.24 or earlier in the article, though - I'm not sure how far back "or earlier" includes. The two extensions it depends on, TextExtracts and PageImages, require 1.23+ and 1.25+ respectively, so it's unlikely that it'll work on our current (pre-upgrade) setup.
:(I am a good person to ask, by the way, and <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> is probably a more convenient way to sign comments.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:14, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

== Aesthetically Pleasing Things ==

I know I posted this before but... do I have your permission to spice up some of the templates of tables? I could make some look better and "cleaner" than they do now. Also, are there any plans to change the default look of the wiki? I don't mean this in a nasty way, white with black text is pretty... generic. - [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 14:20, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

== Auto-Welcome ==

It looks like your bot is automatically welcoming editors. Unfortunately, due to the nature of rotating IP addresses, it appears your bot has [//www.dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Special:Contributions/LethosorBot welcomed one anonymous user] 7 times in the last 5 days. Perhaps it would be best to restrict auto-welcoming to non-IP users?--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 21:55, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
:Yeah, that's the AutoWelcomeUser extension (just set up to attribute edits to my bot). I definitely agree that it should be changed, and I'll look into it. Fun fact: this was enabled on the old wiki, but I had written it for a ''slightly'' newer Mediawiki version, so I had forgotten about it since it didn't actually work until we upgraded. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:37, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
:I think this is fixed now. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:57, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

== On "Acceptable" Commas ==

Regarding [//www.dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:World_generation&curid=32663&diff=245045&oldid=245044 this edit]:

Per the [//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style Wikipedia Manual of Style] (referenced as [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#S|Rule S]]): "Where more than one style is acceptable under MoS, editors should not change an article from one of those styles to another without a good reason."

So, while that comma is indeed "acceptable" (or optional), editing to add that optional comma is not. I intentionally did not put a comma there when I added that sentence, and I believe my punctuational preference is at least as valid as ‎Silverwing235's.--[[User:Loci|Loci]] ([[User talk:Loci|talk]]) 23:12, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

:I'm not convinced that comma is optional, but I didn't realize you had added that sentence (I thought it was part of the original quote from Toady before your changes, so I was mistakenly applying rule S there as well). Apologies, and it's your call as to what to do there. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:21, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

== Embark points ==

There's no page explaining embark points in-depth; can I make such a page? Or at least add it to the embark page? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:39, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
: I'd add it to the embark page since I'm not sure it warrants a separate page unless it's a ''lot'' of detail (i.e. more than the current embark page). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:43, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
:: With what I have planned, there's a ton of things I can go over which can fill a page. I can make a "workbench"/fake page and you can tell me if it's worthy or not. Also, is it possible to put things in "collapsable/expandable" tables to not badly stretch out pages? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 04:14, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
:: Sorry, one more thing. You know the "Urist likes [something] for their [something]."? Are these made up on the spot or is that info taken directly from somewhere? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 04:59, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
::: I'm not sure how much detail you can go into about just embark points, but sure, feel free to make a test page if you like and I can provide some input. I wouldn't put things in collapsible tables just because of page length, because pretty much no other page does that (except for some things that aren't really part of the content of a page, like nav boxes and raws). If you're referring to things like "Urist likes [creature]" from pages like [[DF2014:Cat]], those are generated from the raws. I'm not sure if that appears on any other types of pages. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:30, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

==Creature font==
Are you alright if I change the font of the letters in the creature list? Sorry to say this but that font is kinda ugly. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 01:40, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
:Are you talking about [[DF2014:Creature]] or something else? I personally think that page looks fine, but what does it look like on your end? It might be some cross-browser issue that we can try to sort out. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:56, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
::Yes I do mean that DF2014:Creature page. The font of the letters that resemble the creatures are this ugly "Times New Roman"-esque font that looks like an eyesore to me. It could be a much smoother looking font. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:55, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
:::I noticed the font looks ugly on Firefox and Edge but not in the Tor Browser. So yeah, there's a weird browser thing going on and I don't know how to fix things for specific browsers on wiki's... -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 20:45, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
::::I'm guessing you don't have the "Century" font installed, or accessible in those browsers for some reason. For reference, [https://i.imgur.com/wD6QMoG.png here] is what it looks like for me, definitely not Times. I'll see if it can be standardized. Does {{Raw Tile|c|6:0}} look ok to you? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:33, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::At some point in the possibly-recent past, those letters looked the same for me as it did you, but one day it just changed to the uglier font. Also, it's impossible to use the "Upload newer version of this file" function, as that always gives weird errors: Could not read or write file "mwstore://local-backend/local-public/6/6c/Biome_evil.png" due to insufficient permissions or missing directories/containers. I'm assuming I don't have access to do that? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 03:07, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
::::::I figured out the setting that controlled the font, it's the "Allow pages to choose their own fonts, instead of your selections above" choice, but turning this option off can spoil the fonts everywhere else on other sites. There's something about (my) Firefox that's not recognizing the Century font, even though I have it. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 03:36, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::::Yeah, not sure it's worth working around browser settings. Does the {{Raw Tile|c|6:0}} from above look ok to you or the same as the one on the creatures page? Also, that error is definitely not intentional; I'll look into it. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:57, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
::::::::The C there looks alright. Creature tile lists on other pages look fine as it's using the "Tile" template, so maybe something's wrong with the template being used in the creature page. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 12:55, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::It's a custom template being used for those tables that specifies the font itself. I changed the font to fall back to the ones that {{tl|Tile}} uses. Does it look ok now? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:56, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::It does not. But when I use a different computer, it's fine there (still on Firefox). Yeah, I can't figure this out. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 07:54, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
{{od|10}}
I've cleared the cache on the server side (I don't remember if I did that before). If that still doesn't help, maybe clearing your browser's cache would help? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 18:29, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
::Well, I cleared 1GB worth of data, but that didn't fix the issue? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 03:14, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

== BREAKING NEWS ==

Here comes Supernerd... the coolest and greatest editor ever on [[Dwarf Fortress Wiki]]. --[[User:Supernerd|Supernerd]] ([[User talk:Supernerd|talk]]) 10:47, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

== Proposal to translate the Wiki into Spanish ==

Good I am an expert player in the game and I would like to translate the wiki to help the Spanish community in this great game.
Should I translate it as I could?.
Here's my email for the answer: cheekonobreeko@gmail.com

== Just signal boosting on someone else's behalf... ==

...apparently a researcher with [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174850.0 research] on [[book]]s got themselves [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175133.0 locked out of the lab]. Any support for this?
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:02, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

== Minor server-side issues... ==

1. Broken(404) HTML links [[Quotes|here]].

2. Creature [[Giant earthworm|variation]] needs to be added [[Worm|here]].
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 11:09, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

:These aren't server-side issues - they can be fixed by editing the pages. In the first case, the forums moved from bay12games.com/forums to bay12forums.com/smf (I'm not sure when that happened, or if there used to be a redirect, but I would recommend {{tl|cite forum}} to make them future-proof). The second issue you pointed out happens when creature variations don't follow the typical naming pattern, but you can override the variations that the templates display. See [[blue jay]], [[bluejay man]], and [[giant bluejay]] for examples, and feel free to let me know if you have any questions about those templates. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 06:30, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
:Update: looks like there's also {{tl|forum link}} if you prefer to keep the text that the links currently use (for #1). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 06:33, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

== can't login... user:garrieirons ==

yeah I tried all the things and posted on the forum.

any advice on how to get a password reset?

https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/User:GarrieIrons

Sorry if you're not an admin.

Cheers,
Garrie

Symptom:
When I click the reset password link, and enter my user name (GarrieIrons) it tells me:
'''A password reset email has already been sent, within the last 24 hours. To prevent abuse, only one password reset email will be sent per 24 hours.'''

Cheers again.
G

:Ok, so it sounds like you already requested a password reset - did you get an email? It should have come from do-not-reply@dwarffortresswiki.org (make sure it didn't get sent to your spam folder). If you don't have access to the email address you registered with anymore, I can try to reset it some other way. Also, where did you post on the forums? I didn't see anything from you on the wiki board. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:36, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
::To be clear, every password reset has resulted in the message above, but, no email. Can you tell me is it going to a hotmail, or a gmail address? If not, I'm stumped and I'll start a different account?
::Also...ok I looked at threads I guess. I coulda sworn at some time in the past I asked about this on the forum but I'm not finding it (only the thread I thought I responded to).
::G
:::OK I found a PM thread on the forum, from ages ago, referring me to you...but I'd never followed up... 🤦‍♂️
:::G.
:::Looks like your username at hotmail.com - do you still have access to that? I just sent you a test email from the wiki, so let me know if that goes through. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:24, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

== Weirdness ensues... ==

...Alright, maybe not, but then again...
[[Interaction_examples|this page]] is fine in Search, but spews redlinkery when linked to as if Ebola-infected - very puzzling.
---[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 21:16, 7 March 2020 (UTC) EDIT: And the mystery deepens, because apparently one has to be [[DF2014:Interaction_examples|very specific]] about phrasing...downright incantational,really...in order to get a clear result with this.

:If you're in a versioned namespace (like DF2014), links will be within that namespace by default; otherwise, they will use the main namespace. Looks like a [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Interaction_examples&action=history redirect was created] in this case and both of those links seem to work now. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:56, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

== Obok Meatgod ==

Hey Lethesor, thanks for all the work you do for DFhack. I have a favour to ask. I was using the "random page" feature and I stumbled upon [[Obok Meatgod|this article]]. The article is about an adventure mode game from the Bay12 forums where some dude modded genitals into his game so he could [do some really vile stuff]. I don't mean to bug ''you'' about it, but I'm getting an internal error when I try to start a talk page on the article. Basically, can you delete this article? I'm all for some good shock humour, and I know DF stories can get pretty brutal, but this doesn't really seem like it's supposed to be funny. The forum page it links back to just reads like some edge-lord's fanfic power fantasy. Maybe I'm mistaken and this ''is'' relevant to DF, but if not, mind doing me a favour and just purging it from the wiki?
--[[Special:Contributions/130.211.1.83|130.211.1.83]] 00:33, 2 April 2020 (UTC) Jon
:I did a bit of research - given that it was deleted from Bay12 and DFFD, I think I'll follow suit and delete it from here too. (It's not permanent here - an admin could always get it back.) Thanks for bringing it to my attention. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:24, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
::Thanks Lethesor! [[Special:Contributions/35.191.8.35|35.191.8.35]] 17:07, 2 April 2020 (UTC) Jon

== Regarding a certain subst tag: ==

(Stop me if I miss anything, please.)

IIRC, its a since-deprecated holdover of some kind of Wikipedian affiliation, that is pretty much purge-on-sight when found in art licensing around here. The important question is, how to proceed, if at all, when evidence is discovered of apparent holdouts of that sort [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?search=subst%3A&title=Special%3ASearch&go=Go further afield], outside the verified-for-deletion parameters? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 13:45, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

:I suggest [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Substitution MediaWiki's documentation] for information on what subst does. It's not specifically something that came from Wikipedia. One caveat is that if the template being substituted didn't exist when the page was saved, the subst: won't get replaced until you save the page again. However, in this case, it looks like I [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Licenses&diff=prev&oldid=249061 removed] the subst: part from where these templates were being used, so yes, on image pages, removing the "subst: prefix is fine.
:From the search results you linked, a lot of the subst occurrences appear to be in [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Wikitext_examples#HTML_tags HTML comments], so they won't get substituted when the page is saved. They also won't be displayed to readers, though. I suspect that's either stuff left over from version migrations or moving things to templates. I wouldn't put too much effort into dealing with those, unless you find something on a current-version page (in which case I'd say move things out of the comment if they're relevant or delete them if they're obsolete). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:06, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

== Lost password/email request ==

User: DDR
I've lost the email and password I apparently used to set up my account on this wiki, over a decade ago.

I'm [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=20574 DDR on the forum], which I still have my login for… and the mantis bugtracker, and DFFD.

Thank you. Sorry for the trouble.

:Sent a PM on the forums. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:21, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

== Further comment ==

It's hard to continue to [[wikipedia:WP:AGF|assume good faith]] in [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk%3ASilverwing235&type=revision&diff=256707&oldid=256705 this case], when the user in question tries to bury discussion of their behavior. Obviously that tactic isn't very effective, but it's a far cry from the openness and transparency required for the wiki to function as a collaborative project. Anyway, I firmly believe in [[wikipedia:WP:AAGF|WP:AAGF]] as a part of [[wikipedia:WP:CIVIL|WP:CIVIL]], which is part of the point I tried to raise in that discussion (which was then ''erased''). I'm linking these policies not because I think you're unfamiliar, but because I want to be clear on where I'm coming from. '''—'''[[User:Sriefmadsakzro|'''οɼѕаk''']] 17:48, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

:We don't have many of our own policies on things like this, but I'll take a look at the ones you linked since I'm not very familiar with them, particularly AAGF. It occurs to me that some of my comments may have come across as not following AAGF, and I apologize for that - I was (and still am) trying to follow AGF on my end, but it is challenging in this situation. I didn't intend to imply that you were not. As for the talk page edits, [[wikipedia:WP:OWNTALK|WP:OWNTALK]] seems to match my thoughts on the matter. Silverwing235's comment appears (to me) to be a more explicit acknowledgement of the criticism you raised, rather than an implicit acknowledgement by just removing your comment. I think your criticism was understood, in any case. (I do plan to respond to the AIV discussion, but am not sure how best to do that yet. In any case, I appreciate your concern for the wiki, and would like to find a solution that's acceptable to everyone involved.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:30, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

::A few phrases in my comments below are bolded—it's really just to emphasize structure, not to alter tone.'''—'''[[User:Sriefmadsakzro|'''οɼѕаk''']] 22:39, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
::---
::I actually wasn't talking about you when I referred to AAGF and my comment (and its erasure). I meant that Silverwing235 has—on this occasion and others—assumed that other editors are ''not engaging'' in good faith, and also that they are ''not assuming'' good faith (as when Silverwing235 referred to me as a “saboteur”); and that Silverwing235's own actions (''immediate'' removal of comments in ongoing discussions from their talk page—I believe this argument stands irrespective of [[wikipedia:OWNTALK|OWNTALK]]) make it hard to ''continue'' to assume good faith on their part.
::And, related to that: I have a hard time parsing many of Silverwing235's comments throughout. They're often vague and overcooked to the point of obscurity. There's very little there—even after the comment removal—that acknowledges the existence of a dispute over either past or ongoing behaviors, let alone the need for specific behaviors to change (let alone ''why'' those behaviors are wrong, or ''how'' those behaviors should change). Where there ''is'', there is also language implying that the issue is really with ''other'' editors and ''their'' disagreement—as if other editors are wrong to raise an issue in the first place. But as Silverwing235's edit summaries (and, incidentally, User+Talk comments) have repeatedly implied, they edit things to suit their personal tastes, ''not'' necessarily to correct mistakes (which they sometimes ''assert'' they are doing, but as has been seen, they frequently are not).
::---
::Another example of the general problem raised in AIV popped up yesterday: while reviewing a substantial [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Climate&curid=31137&diff=256715&oldid=247968 IP edit] (which, to me, looked good), I noticed that the edits immediately prior to it were Silverwing235's, made in late 2019 (soon after their dispute with Loci had ended in Loci's departure). And I quickly saw that [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014%3AClimate&type=revision&diff=247966&oldid=247965 this edit] was again, apparently, a “stylistic” change which Silverwing235 may honestly have believed necessary (for their own reasons), but which was [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Climate&diff=prev&oldid=256717 actually erroneous]. This sort of edit is partially why I cited IDHT and CIR (which, ''together'', are relevant here, I think) in the [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Administrative_intervention_against_vandalism&oldid=256704 AIV discussion].
::And although I can understand why Voliol might have gotten the contrary impression in the AIV discussion, I'm not advocating a high bar for entry, here. I'm saying that if '''an editor has been told to avoid imposing their own judgment where they cannot articulate a rationale''' (such as when deciding whether [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/User_talk:Silverwing235#Disruptive_Editing commas] need to be inserted before every occurence of [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Justice&diff=prev&oldid=256609 “if”] and “as”; whether a pair of parentheses should be [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Troubleshooting&diff=prev&oldid=256503 replaced] with an approximation to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#Em_dash some other punctuation]; whether “he” and “she” should be [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Justice&diff=prev&oldid=256638 replaced], or [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Justice&diff=prev&oldid=256641 eliminated], or simply [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Silverwing235&diff=247445&oldid=247317 left alone] where they already occur; or whether [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Fairy&diff=prev&oldid=256548 miscellaneous comments oblique to the rest of an article] are necessary or even appropriate), as Silverwing235 has, '''but they continue to do so''', then that presents a problem related to both judgment and behavior (hence IDHT, tangential to CIR).
::---
::Now, I hate to have these two discussions at the same time, but at this point, it would be counterproductive to fork it, so: I see that Silverwing235 has actually objected to the ''whole AIV discussion'' on the basis that they do not believe DE constitutes vandalism (which obviously it does not, in general). But as I acknowledged in my first contribution there, the prior AIV thread seemed to be the most appropriate place to make my comments due to the discussion which showed this user has faced similar criticism before. And, as I mentioned both above and in AIV, there is a pattern of civility issues which existed at least as early as that AIV thread. In particular, their [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/User_talk:Loci#Discussion_in.2C_supposedly.2C_proper_context... responses] to criticism from Loci and in this case have been a mixture of aggressive and [[wikipedia:WP:INDCRIT|passive-aggressive]]. And again, it's hard to assume good faith when critical comments are removed ''immediately'' and without either '''a discussion''' or a '''clear''' and '''substantial''' '''acknowledgment''' that those comments referred to an ongoing pattern of behavior that must change (change ''what'', change ''how'', change ''why''). I.e., yes, users control their own talk pages, but that doesn't prevent their changes from being interpreted one way or another; and in this case, it's hard not to interpret Silverwing235's changes as ''avoiding the issue''. I understand their stated desire to avoid content which [[wikipedia:WP:MASTODON|affects them emotionally]], but this is about conduct as much as it is about content.
::---
::The only reason I've raised this is to avoid continued unease. I don't like writing about disputes, and I prefer to think of the wiki community as inclusive rather than exclusive. But again, it's harder to want to edit if this behavior—not just from Silverwing235, but from ''any'' editor—is unconstrained except by laborious trial and error (a huge time ''and energy'' suck, when you consider putting up with breaks from CIVIL). And I'm not alone in this (which I mention only to emphasize that this is not personal—and I'm ''not'' invoking a silent majority, whether one exists or not, and ultimately, it's not just about this one editor).
::---
::In any case, I appreciate your participation in the matter and in conveying suggestions about specific edits to this editor.
::'''—'''[[User:Sriefmadsakzro|'''οɼѕаk''']] 22:39, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Point one: Yes, the notion about 'a more explicit acknowledgement' was accurate. A personal policy that I came up with re my talk page: 'If it would cause me significant emotional distress, either immediately or at any time during a review of the content, (aka: 'Nope, not having ''that'' around, causing trouble') it gets removed. If, IMHO, the removal itself would raise questions (as it appears to have done in this case) it will at least get a hopefully emotionally-neutral summary and acknowledgement of the thing that caused my upset to begin with. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 11:27, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

== Redirect ==

Hello. I noticed in the recent changes you reverted the edit on [[Textile Industry]], and I realized that my edit on [[Expedition Leader]] falls in the same category. The problem is that, as long as they exist, those pages will always appear on autocomplete, and they won't redirect properly if left as is. So I propose that until a decision is made for them to be deleted, that they be allowed to redirect properly to not confuse people who find them through autocomplete, like me. --[[User:Lurker|Lurker]] ([[User talk:Lurker|talk]]) 20:51, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

:The underlying cause here is a Mediawiki bug with double redirects, discussed in detail at [[DF:REDIR]]'s talk page. Making ''any'' sort of edit to the first page in the chain will fix broken double redirects, so even though I reverted your edit, [[Textile Industry]] redirects correctly now, even from the search bar. The other important point is that you need to use "cv" for the namespace in redirect targets - hardcoding a specific version like "DF2014" will have the wrong behavior when we add a new namespace. In this case, I have deleted the page you edited, since [[Expedition leader]] (lowercase L) already exists and turns up in search results (and follows [[DF:Rule N]]). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:16, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
::Very well. Thank you for your time. --[[User:Lurker|Lurker]] ([[User talk:Lurker|talk]]) 21:22, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
:::I should clarify: you're welcome to fix redirects like this that you notice, as long as you use "cv" (and there's a reminder that appears above the edit box when editing pages in the main namespace, in case that's useful). If you notice redirects whose only difference is capitalization, feel free to tag them for deletion with {{tl|delete}} and I can handle them. It occurs to me now that [[Textile Industry]] is another example of that. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:26, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

== Drastic error in judgement ensues.. ==

Derped by starting [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014_Talk:Block this up], in a way it turned out I rather shouldn't have - mind cleaning up? Thanks. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 19:43, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
:I'm not sure - what are you asking me to do? I'm hesitant to remove a discussion entirely, but if it's redundant to one on another talk page, I suppose I could archive it. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:24, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

...Yeah, archival was what I meant - one is always slightly frazzled when caught prepping to sign off for the night. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 09:49, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

== Random/cv ==

Not that I want more clutter, but what do you think about putting a [[Special:Random/cv]] link in the sidebar? '''—'''[[User:Sriefmadsakzro|'''οɼѕаk''']] 16:24, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

:Do you always want that there, or just in the current version's namespace? For reference, there are custom links added in some namespaces already, like [[Special:Random/Masterwork]] on [[Masterwork:Orc]], so a fourth "random" link on that sidebar could add some clutter. I would lean towards doing this just for versioned pages, but I'm not sure what you think is best. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:55, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

::I don't know. As I said, I'm also not interested in more clutter. Personally, I've frequently been using a bookmark to random/cv just to get a sense of what's on the wiki these days (since I've been “away”/uninvolved). Obviously I don't think that's a good reason for the wiki to change anything, though. When I wrote this on your talk page, my thinking was this: if I'm a new player (or a former one), and I want to know ''what there is'' in this huge game that I don't already know everything about, maybe I'll go to the wiki and click "random page" a few times to satisfy my curiosity. I can always click it again if I end up on something in the Masterwork: namespace (or, if it's in v0.31 etc., just click the link in the Av template). But I'll have to do that ''most'' of the time, since articles in non-cv namespaces outnumber articles in cv. (Right?) I.e., I think my suggestion is only really relevant (at least from the point-of-view of my reasons for bringing it up at all) on the landing/main page. I'm ''not'' attached to it enough to say it should go everywhere. If there's no convenient way to exclude it from pages where there are already namespace-specific random links in the sidebar, then I'm not about to suggest anyone should spend their limited time on the planet worrying about it after all.
::'''—'''[[User:Sriefmadsakzro|'''οɼѕаk''']] 18:54, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

:::[https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgContentNamespaces This Mediawiki setting] came to mind as a potential easy way to exclude certain namespaces from [[Special:Random]] by default, but unfortunately it also affects some other special pages that we may not want to change. I could probably update our custom sidebar logic (which I believe is in [[mw:common.js]]) but it likely won't be a high priority. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:50, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

== Handling "!!science!!"-style additions ==

Sorry to repeatedly bring things to you—I don't really know who does what here now, or if there's a discussion board somewhere this belongs on (other than the talk page for just one of the related articles). Could you take a look at [[DF2014_Talk:Stress#SalfordSal_and_0.47.05|this discussion]]? As I mention there, there are a couple of other edits by that IP user at around the same time that (at a glance) look like they are probably similar. In the case of [[stress]], at least, the content of the article prior to the additions is now buried under a single user's experimental results for a game version one year out-of-date.
'''—'''[[User:Sriefmadsakzro|'''οɼѕаk''']] 18:36, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

:I left a comment on the article's talk page. The timing seemed to line up with [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175214.msg8252465#msg8252465] closely enough that I also left a comment there. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:25, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

== A minor but rather elegant Gordian Knot of an error... ==

Is there any chance of fixing an [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Noise&curid=31900&diff=257273&oldid=250713| accidental red link] in the diff explanation, created when attempting to directly cite the reason's source, of an anonymous comment on the article's talk page, by citing the page instead of (obviously) the comment? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 17:06, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
:Edit summaries can't be changed, unfortunately. In case you were unaware, they can be previewed when you click the "Show preview" button (alternatively, just mentioning "the talk page" for something like this would be fine too). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:12, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

== Minor matter afoot.... ==

As it happens, I seem to have [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:House&oldid=257129| edited myself into a corner] re proper formatting on the Towers of Bologna reference over here. Some help, please?
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 19:51, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

:If you meant the "Towers of Bologna" link, you can use the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Pipe_trick pipe trick] for that (which I did in [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:House&diff=prev&oldid=258665]). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:09, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

== Technical issues ==

Found a bare wire in the wall, somewhat beyond my skill level on account of it leading to, as it were, a broken widget - (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Orientation&curid=40938&diff=258997&oldid=258309) analysis, if you please? Thanks.
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 09:51, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

== Issue with #rreplace ==

Hi Lethosor. I want to bring up a possible MediaWiki Extension-related issue: when there's a lot of #rreplace functions (part of [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:RegexFunctions|RegexFunctions]]) on a page, they start breaking and outputting blank after the first hundred instances. I've experimented with a few different regex patterns and replacements, and this number doesn't seem to change. I currently have an [[User:Doorkeeper/sandbox|example on my sandbox]]. Checking the HTML source shows nothing out of the ordinary on the newpp report.

On the [[creature token]] page, there's more than a hundred {{t|token}}s being used (e.g. {{token|GOOD|c}}); they start linking to the Main Page after a little before section O. This is because {{t|token}} uses #rreplace as a method to remove spaces in the {{{2}}} or 'token type' parameter, so that the #switch function can still match strings in case an editor leaves a space in. However since #rreplace stops working after the first hundred (returns blank), the #switch matching fails and defaults, which is currently set to Main Page (the default page was originally [[Creature]]; it should probably default to a more relevant page). But yeah, noticing misdirecting {{t|token}} links on that page is what led me to #rreplace.

Removing #rreplace from the template will fix the issue (it'll lose its space-checking ability, which doesn't seem too big a deal), but I was wondering if it's possible to fix/update #rreplace or RegexFunctions itself, since this seems like a severe limitation. I don't know if #rreplace is used on other templates or if they're used a lot anywhere else on the wiki. It may not even be a problem with the extension. Either way, I thought it would be best to bring up this issue to you (or to another admin reading this). – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 05:45, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

:It's a deliberate limitation - we have the ``wgRegexFunctionsPerPage`` config variable set to 100 (up from the default of 10). I don't know exactly what performance impact would come from increasing it. Version 2 of the extension seems to have [https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-RegexFunctions/commit/7b56f126fdb2c88375e77bca9cc7bf55eaefb3af removed all config variables], so maybe it is fine to just upgrade the extension. You can see the old documentation [https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Extension:RegexFunctions&oldid=3676687 here]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:10, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
:I also see you've made a fair number of changes to the token template. Should [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:Token/guess_type&diff=259366&oldid=259363] be reverted? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:10, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

::If regex functions are just parser functions, then wouldn't they still be [[wikipedia:WP:TLIMIT|limited by MediaWiki software]]? This means that a limit will still exist to prevent overloading, just at a much higher cap. I have no knowledge about the other configuration changes though, or if you or someone else had set up the other configs in the past differently that would affect how the templates using regex will work post-upgrade. Is this what you meant by performance? Optionally, if you're still unsure about upgrading, you could raise the limit a little instead. DF2014:Creature token currently exceeds the limit by 51. I think 200-500 is enough to fix things now and later down the line. Most other wikis I've seen that have RegexFunctions still use 1.5.0, so this is probably the better/safer option. I changed my mind about #rreplace and would like for it to remain, however the limitation is still causing issues for the page. The revert did mitigate it somewhat, but [[DF2014:Creature token#NOTHOUGHT|not perfectly]]. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 13:17, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

::I removed the function from [[Template:Token]]. It will only lose its space-checking ability in the token type param, which is not a big deal since most use the shortened forms anyway. New values w/ spaces can be added instead of #rreplace. If you have access to LocalSettings.php, setting $wgPFEnableStringFunctions to true will enable #replace, which could be used instead of #rreplace. #replace has a default limit of 1000 compared to #rreplace's 100. [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 06:07, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

:::I do have the ability to make any code changes on the backend. I doubt #replace will work in this case if we really want to replace ''all'' whitespace. Replacing just spaces should work, as long as we can find a way to prevent the Mediawiki parser from gobbling them up. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:05, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

::::Yep, just spaces. I wished Mediawiki had a core function like <nowiki>{{lc:}}</nowiki> that specifically removes spaces from a string. I was surprised one didn't exist. [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 15:36, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

:::::It wouldn't be too hard to write a custom one. I think trimming spaces from the beginning/end of a string is a lot more common than removing just spaces (as opposed to arbitrary characters) from the middle of a string, and MediaWiki generally trims spaces from the beginning/end of arguments from default, so I'm not as surprised that the functionality to remove spaces from the middle of strings doesn't exist already. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:58, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Unrelated, but I'd like to request for [[mediawikiwiki:Snippets/Horizontal lists|horizontal lists]]. This feature allows for [[wikipedia:MOS:HLIST|single-row styled lists]] using wiki markups in tables, templates, etc. A lot wikis including WP use them. I want to redesign [[Template:Navbox]], and hlists would be very useful. – [[User:Doorkeeper|Doorkeeper]] 13:24, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

== May want to lock down at least the LNP page to non-registered users... ==

....for a while (two weeks, perhaps?) as we have a dumbass about...the kind of [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Utility:Lazy_Newb_Pack&oldid=259549| trollish dumbass] who has been sufficiently irritating to deserve an IP trace and a knife in the face, IMHO. "Can't troll on the internet if you're dead, hey? Yeah, let's see how you deal with that." kind of thing,
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 20:49, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

:Threats of violence are not acceptable. Consider this a warning. People will inevitably vandalize a public wiki; the appropriate course of action is to post to [[DF:AIV]] or alert an admin, as you did. I blocked the IPs in question and protected the page, so hopefully that helps with the immediate issue. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 03:39, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

== Copyright issues... ==

...as in, Meph's recent tileset takedown [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Copyrights produced a discussion]. Your contribution may be needed, but particularly, the exact wording of the copyright template needs some adjusting - mind pointing me at it? Thanks. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 11:51, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

:Are you referring to the "Text is available under GFDL & MIT" suggestion? It's a rather long discussion, so I'm not sure. If so, that is a [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:System_message system message], which can only be edited by admins. You can identify the appropriate message ID by overriding the language code to "qqx" as described in that article. Looks like [[mediawiki:copyright]] to me. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:41, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I was of course referring to the system message edit suggestion - thanks & happy Xmas. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 23:25, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

* Comment: While on topic, you might want to add a caveat excluding the content of games raws used on the wiki from the general copyright. I assume we are using them with Today's blessing, however, I doubt that Toady would wave his rights over their content. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 14:50, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

== Redirects ==

Thanks, I was wondering about that, glad you guys have a policy. Also on unrelated topic, would love to hear what you think regarding the [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Centralized_Discussion/SkillsLaborProfessions|terminology in use on skill articles]]. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 03:55, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
:At a high level, I am in favor of standardization. I haven't had much time to look at that discussion in detail. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:38, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
::Essentially it is a question of standardization. I outlined (1) some discrepancies in the lead of various skill articles, and I believe (2) the terms in the infobox might be misleading, and referred everywhere else differently. Input from more experienced users of this wiki would be appreciated regarding the direction to take.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 00:13, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

----
Question: How do link from the DF2014 namespace to the main namespace. For example: when I try to link to [[Dwarf Fortress Talk]] from [[DF2014:modding]] it shows broken because it only looks up DF2014 namespace and I don't know how to prefix the mainspace. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 15:32, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

:"Main" as the namespace should work (it's an alias that we've set up). Ex: [[Main:Dwarf Fortress Talk]] or [[Main:Dwarf Fortress Talk|Dwarf Fortress Talk]] —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:15, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
:: That works, thank you. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 00:13, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

== Columns-list ==

Any objections for adding the a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Columns-list Columns-list] template to replace large list represented by tables. It's easy to use, easy to adjust option that allows to fit more information horizontally (where possible) using columns and wouldn't break layout like on multi columns tables can, like on some mobile devices.

I made an example: [[User:Jan/Columns-list]] for creatures in [[Desert]]. All you need is provide desired column width or number. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 16:54, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

:Seems like a fine approach to me, as long as it's used for tables where we don't anticipate needing more than one column per entry (so I think [[Desert]] is a good use-case). As a plus, it looks like it falls back to a single-column list for browsers that don't support it. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:38, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

:: Sound good. I created [[Template:Columns-list]] --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 00:13, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Seems like I forgot to ask at the time. Can you please add to [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] this part:
<pre>
/* Template:Columns-list */
/* correct webkit/chrome uneven margin on the first column*/
.div-col dl,
.div-col ol,
.div-col ul {
margin-top: 0;
}</pre>
You can see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Div_col/styles.css here] this is the standard solution to correct an annoying behavior that sometimes cause to skew the number of items in each collumn.--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 11:59, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== Found a script [[User:Lethosor/rater_0.1.js| stuck in its drawer]]... ==

...in what might be called the 'Mistakes' subsection, while cleaning up. That is to say, we have a 'Quality ranks in invalid namespaces' situation. What to do?
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:19, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

== Spam issues ==

For once, what I'd otherwise have to say is available [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Python&curid=38885&diff=263697&oldid=263696 in the diff desc]. I imagine there's also a Magic redirect that needs some of the same protective treatment. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:32, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
--[[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 12:32, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

:Quietust protected [[Python]]. I protected [[Magic]] just now. I think that's what you meant, but could you please be more clear with your requests in the future? Thanks. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:40, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

== Mediawiki:Licenses ==
This is kind of an awkward thing to ask, but... am I allowed temporary access to edit the Mediawiki:Licenses page? There are a lot of licenses I think should be added, so it's nice and up to date. I'm happy with your decision either way, I just thought you wouldn't want me constantly bothering you for every little thing I think should be added. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 18:10, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
:No, it's not something I can grant on a per-page basis, unfortunately. But if you make the edits you want to a user page or sandbox or somewhere else, I'd be happy to copy them in. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:48, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
::Alright then, here's one for the CC0 license: [[:Template:cc-0]] -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 06:22, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
:::Here's another: [[:Template:Cc-by-nc-nd-4.0]] -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 06:28, 21 July 2022 (UTC) 
::::Aaaaand another [[:Template:Cc-by-nd-4.0]] and another [[:Template:Cc-by-sa-4.0]]
Please also include the title you want. Ideally in the format that page uses. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 06:43, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::I thought the titles within those templates were the giveaway, but very well:
*[[:Template:cc-0]] - Creative Commons Public Domain
*[[:Template:Cc-by-nc-nd-4.0]] - Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial NoDerivatives 4.0 International
*[[:Template:Cc-by-nd-4.0]] - Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivatives 4.0 International
*[[:Template:Cc-by-sa-4.0]] - Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0
*[[:Template:Cc-a-2.0]] - Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 Generic (give or take the "generic" part)
*[[:Template:Cc-by-nc-2.5]] - Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 2.5 Generic (give or take the "generic" part)
*[[:Template:Cc-2.5]] - Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 Generic
*[[:Template:Cc-2.5-au]] - Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 Australia
*[[:Template:Cc-by-2.0-uk]] - Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 UK: England & Wales
*[[:Template:Cc-by-3.0-us]] - Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 United States
*[[:Template:Stock_photo]] - Stock Photo Image

The "I do not know the license" and "found the image somewhere" templates seem to be broken or missing. Not sure if I should make templates for those or not... -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 07:24, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
:Ehh, what the hell, I made those two templates anyway. [[:Template:License_unknown]] and [[:Template:Found_image]]. If you need 'em, fine. If not, still fine. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 07:28, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
::Here's more
*[[:Template:public_domain]] - Public Domain
*[[:Template:Cc-1-uni]] - Creative Commons CC0 1.0 Universal

Sorry for the delay. I have a lot of questions about which section(s) these should go in, etc.. I'm guessing you know the answers to these, so to save us some back-and-forth, could you make the changes you want to [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Sandbox/licenses]] (a copy) and let me know when they're ready to be copied in? Thanks. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:14, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
:I made a mockup on my [[User:Zippy/sandbox|sandbox page]]. Note that the top two are marked by with a "(replace)" because I also made a "don't know" and "license unknown" template to replace the ones that seem to be missing/broken, for some reason. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 12:36, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah... I notice you still haven't added these. Did I set this up wrong? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 05:53, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
:::Well, it wasn't in a format that I could easily paste in. I had to remove the bold text, remove your parenthetical remarks, and replace " - " with "|". I think I got it right in [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Licenses&diff=266031&oldid=264287]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:26, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

May I suggest changing the "Dwarf Fortress Screenshot" choice to "Dwarf Fortress Screenshot and/or Game File"? Or making a separate one for game files? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:49, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
:What other "game files" are you thinking of? We should not be uploading full sprite sheets, for instance. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 22:22, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
::You didn't see my reply in the talk page about the game version? I showed a screenshot of a reply straight from Kitfox games allowing use of any game images. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 22:55, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
:::It helps to link to what you're talking about. Is it [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Versions&diff=278707&oldid=278700 this reply]? If so, that's referring to individual sprites, not sprite sheets. I have serious copyright concerns around uploading sprite sheets directly, and to me, "game files" sounds like files ''from the game'', e.g. sprite sheets. If you want me to change the dropdown to add "sprites" or maybe "individual sprites", that's fine with me. Let me know if I'm misunderstanding. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:01, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
::::I can't for the life of me understand how it would be okay to post every single sprite here (which we'd have to do eventually, to cover everything), but uploading an entire sprite sheet is an issue? I'm sure one of those sites dedicated to posting sprite sheets is gonna do that anyway. Granted, I can't think of a time when we would need to upload a whole sprite sheet. I guess "Dwarf Fortress Screenshot and/or Sprite(s)" would make more sense, yeah. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 23:19, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::Sprite sheets are paid content. If someone posts them all, there is not much stopping someone from making a pirated copy of "premium" DF, and I am trying to stay as far away from that as we can. I can't control what piracy takes place on other sites. If there is a way we can avoid the technical overhead of uploading all 40,000 possible tiles, I am open to suggestions. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:35, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
::::::All the creature sprites are added. Are you comfortable changing "Dwarf Fortress Screenshot" to "Dwarf Fortress Screenshot and/or Game Sprite"? I had to use that specific license for all the sprites I uploaded, so I think it would make sense to change the license to match that. Though this is ''your'' wiki so... completely up to you. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 05:44, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::::Done (and it's not just "my" wiki). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:55, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

== "Watch" Template ==

Sorry to keep bothering you with stuff, but I made a "watch" template on my [[User:Zippy/sandbox|sandbox page]]. It can be used for those ambiguous 50/50 situations where the copyright infringement is possible, but unknown. Do I have your permission to make that template a reality? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 13:54, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

:I think it should be more specific, like {{tl|possible copyright issue}} and "the copyright status of this image is unconfirmed". —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 15:44, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
::I changed it, but if the template is allowed, you might have to do some CSS changes so that one side isn't a mismatching blue. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 16:22, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
:::Take a look at {{tl|ambox/type}} for a list of valid types. Notably, "green" is not valid and falls back to the default, but "style" or "yellow" match pretty closely. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:18, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
::::Fair enough. So.. am I allowed to make the template or..? Not sure how this works. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 17:47, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::There are no restrictions on creating templates. That said, I still strongly recommend that you make the template more specific. "watch" is pretty vague for a single-purpose template like this. Can you rename it to {{tl|possible copyright issue}} or something similar? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:21, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
::::::Done. I even made the respective doc page. ([[:Template:Watch|Actual template]]) -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:02, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::::Again, it's still named {{tl|watch}}, which I don't recommend (partly since Mediawiki already uses that term for [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Watching_pages something else]), but thanks for the docs. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:05, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
::::::::Done, but should the "watch" redirect stay so that it's not dissociated with images that already have the template? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:08, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::Yeah, that's a good catch - the redirect should make it easier on us. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 21:13, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

== Request for interwiki (inter-language) link to Chinese wiki ==

Sorry for repeated content, but I'm wondering if the message has been captured from talk page of Main Page. So I decide to paste my content here as well. We would be really appreciated if interwiki link pointing to our site is enabled, as ''Dwarf Fortress'' itself has not been fully translated to Chinese ever, and our users might find it more convenient to search by English words on original English wiki, and then they may refer to the translated ones on Chinese wiki. Looking forward to a reply about whether it is possible or not. Thanks!

Hello! I'm the admin of [https://dfzh.huijiwiki.com/ Chinese Dwarf Fortress wiki], and I've previous put its link on the main page. We've now enabled interwiki link from our site to English site, and we wish to get one back from English site to CN site as well. Hope that is possible, and thanks so much! The URL for our site should be: <code>https://dfzh.huijiwiki.com/wiki/$1</code> [[User:Xjtu-blacksmith|xjtu-blacksmith 黑山雁]] ([[User talk:Xjtu-blacksmith|talk]]) 01:20, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

:Hi - sorry for not replying on the main page. We just recently fixed an issue preventing us from making configuration changes like this, so I hope I can add this soon. Thanks for reaching out! —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:39, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
::Replied on [[Talk:Main Page]]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:45, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

== Cannot create new user account ==

I'm thinking I'm doing all right, but the system is always saying:

''There seems to be a problem with your login session; this action has been canceled as a precaution against session hijacking. Please resubmit the form.''

at my attempts; I tried also to change email address with no good effect.

Is anything I can do to solve this issue? Thanks --[[Special:Contributions/81.56.3.43|81.56.3.43]] 10:39, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

:I'm not sure, sorry. It's working for me and other people: [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Special:Log/newusers]. Try clearing your browser's cache, or using another browser. There may be a hidden field to catch spammers, so try avoiding autofill. Also make sure the captcha is working - you could try turning on Javascript if it's off. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:00, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Ok, I was able to perform the procedure using another device; I was using a linux desktop, I completed the account creation by an android tablet.
:Huh, I was successful using a Linux desktop. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:17, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

== Version number ==

Are you sure about changing the release information version number from: <code>0.50.x</code> to: <code>50.x</code>? This [[version number#Example|version numbering]] has been the convention for over two decade, with [[DF2014:Release information|current]] and past articles named so. Note that while posts on steam use the shorthand Tarns release in the game files still use the original convention --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 01:56, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
:I am sure. It's not just posts - the game itself identifies itself as "50.03" currently. I'm not personally a fan of the change, and I realize it's inconsistent with past versions, but it's what Toady is using now. I do recall seeing "0.50.01" in some .txt files originally, but as of 50.03, nearly all of those occurrences have been updated to "50.01", so I think it was originally overlooked. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:42, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

== Changes to diagram ==

Did something changed with diagram tag? its output all across the wiki seem more colorful than I recall e.g. [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Trap_design#Crosshair_trapping]. Here is a [https://ibb.co/yPSbcRq screenshot] for reference in case it is something on my end, that pinkish hue is new. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 15:35, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
:Hmm, looks normal on Firefox for me, [https://i.imgur.com/aHvPhw4.png screenshot] [[User:Ziusudra|Ziusudra]] ([[User talk:Ziusudra|talk]]) 16:07, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
:Odd, I cannot reproduce on Firefox or Chrome either (looks the same as [[User:Ziusudra|Ziusudra]]'s screenshot to me). Could you check your Javascript console ({{k|ctrl/cmd|shift|i}}) and see if you have any errors on that page? You can ignore any output from "JQMIGRATE". —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:14, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
:: Seems like it is something on my end, probably going to be resolved once I can reboot. Thank for checking. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 16:50, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

== Account to update Book please, and thank you! ==

Hello! I was just looking at quires and books in v50, and wanted to confirm that the value bug for books is still present.

Given an unbound, written quire valued at 57#, the final value after adding 20# of binding and thread is 48# in v50.

I would love an account to note this or at least mention it on the Book talk page. Thanks!

You can contact me at welkin.shibboleth@gmail.com
--[[Special:Contributions/68.171.119.95|68.171.119.95]] 04:24, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

:You should be able to create an account at [[Special:CreateAccount]]. Are you having trouble with it? (You can also made edits without creating an account, like you just did here.) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:20, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

== Food Guide ==
I was trying to edit the one for the current steam version but it kept redirecting me, I'll make the changes to that one and revert my changes to the old one. [[User:Kenji 03|Kenji 03]] ([[User talk:Kenji 03|talk]]) 09:36, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

== Graphics policies ==

Hi, I dug through some of the data in my installation to figure out the graphic status thought bubbles (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Status_icon). I'm quite willing to update that page with the information, however, I'm not sure what policies surround uploading graphics. Is there a specific size or format?
[[User:Briezee|Briezee]] ([[User talk:Briezee|talk]]) 02:45, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Just updated [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Versions#Premium.2FClassic]]. As for size, I would recommend trying to get screenshots at the "native" resolution, i.e. not zoomed in or out, to avoid blur caused by DF zooming. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:27, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

== saltwater crocodile / raws ==

Thanks for the help. been meaning to do something about the crocs for a while now. So I take it all the raw txt files are already on the wiki, and the creature pages just need updating? --[[User:Boromonokli|Boromonokli]] ([[User talk:Boromonokli|talk]]) 19:52, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:Yes, as described at [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Versions#v50_migration]] (just updated), raw pages have yet to be created, but they can be created manually as you found. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 20:21, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
::Have any raws been changed in v50? --[[User:Boromonokli|Boromonokli]] ([[User talk:Boromonokli|talk]]) 23:17, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:::Not sure, there are ~1300 raw pages on this wiki and I haven't looked at them all. But if you pull in the correct version of the raws ("v50" or "DF2014"), you shouldn't have to worry. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:04, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== Wiki mobile layout ==

I've seen this touched upon in a few different discussions but I think with the steam release and influx of new people it's important to push this again. The wiki has very little going in terms of "mobile-friendliness" right now and I don't think it would take too many changes to get it going in a good direction.

Either we use the MediaWiki extension [https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Extension:MobileFrontend Extension:MobileFrontend] or we adjust the CSS/HTML of the website as is to make it at least a little more user-friendly on mobile.

Happy to help out on this, I do web development as a day job so I can offer support here if needed. Cheers.
--[[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 15:35, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

== Vermin Lookup Template ==

I was wondering, is it alright if you change up the <code>verminlookup</code> template like you did the <code>creaturelookup</code> one? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 06:35, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
:Are you asking me to do it? —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 16:16, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
::Well, yeah. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 18:23, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
:::So uhhhhhhhh... Leth, my man. Are you gonna... change the template or...? Edit: I could just use the v50 creature template still if that's okay with you. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 03:34, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
::::My time is limited, and the way you asked kind of rubbed me the wrong way, although I don't think you meant to. I'll get to it. It doesn't require any special permissions, and it's pretty much just copying what I did for creaturelookup (I'm going to edit a few templates to pass through an "image" argument, then copy the image piece from {{tl|CreatureInfo v0.40}} into the innermost template), so I would suggest taking a look at the changes so you can familiarize yourself with how the templates work. There are a lot of layers, but they're pretty much standard MediaWiki templates until you get down to {{tl|tag}}, {{tl|tagvalue}}, and others that use DFRawFunctions. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:31, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

::::To be fair, {{tl|VerminInfo}} ended up having two minor differences from {{tl|CreatureInfo v0.40}} that I resolved (described in [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:CreatureInfo_v0.40&diff=prev&oldid=285703 this edit]), but the edits to {{tl|verminlookup/0}} and {{tl|verminlookup/aux}} were just a matter of passing through an "image" parameter, similar to {{tl|creaturelookup/0}}. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:44, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::Sorry, I wasn't trying to sound rude. I couldn't tell if you were waiting for one of us to change it or if you were already planning on doing it. The irony is, I was trying to sound less pushy and somehow ended up sounding more pushy. Are you also able to add the "toggle" thing to the vermin infoboxes like that of the other creatures? Edit: If you're not too busy that is. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:13, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::I already did. It should behave identically to the creature infoboxes (and does on my end). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:02, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::::Ah yes, you're right, sorry. My laptop wasn't refreshing any pages for some reason. Thank you, the work you do on this wiki is phenomenal. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 23:07, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::::I should also add (because I don't remember if I said this before on another page), are you alright with me using the "v50_buildings" template I made for all the buildings in the v50 game? I don't want to keep bothering you for every single template. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 23:13, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::v50 pages should be using {{tl|buildings}}, which will use {{tl|v50 buildings}} automatically on v50 pages. This is important so that future version migrations (if any) work. I confirmed that I see the v50 template on [[Bars]] and [[Altar]]. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:46, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

== Reducing space taken up by headers ==

Migrated articles have a ton of vertical space taken by headers, could we reduce it a bit?

# Could you combine the bullets in [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice]] to one line?
# Any objections to [[Template_talk:ArticleVersion#.22Note_that_some_content_may_still_need_to_be_updated..22|my suggestion here]] to combine the av and migrated boxes into one before I go do it? Especially now that the Quality template shows up between them. [[User:OddballJoe|OddballJoe]] ([[User talk:OddballJoe|talk]]) 18:41, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

:I am hesitant to do (1) because I want to make certain points obvious, and I think the link to the discussion page is important. For (2) I replied at that talk page. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 19:00, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

== Version history reorg ==

Planning to rearrange how version pages work a little, wanted to give you a heads-up in case you object. [[Talk:Release_information]] --[[User:OddballJoe|OddballJoe]] ([[User talk:OddballJoe|talk]]) 22:26, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
:Thanks, haven't had a lot of time to keep up-to-date but I weighed in briefly. Will watch that page. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 23:43, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
:: When you have a chance, could you or another admin look over the edit I proposed at [[Template talk:Release notes]] and execute it or provide feedback? Thanks. -[[User:OddballJoe|OddballJoe]] ([[User talk:OddballJoe|talk]]) 23:00, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

== do_it_right best practices ==

This - [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal#We_are_doing_this.21_Let_us_do_it_right.]] - is awesome! Good on you if you wrote it.

No action needed, just a note of appreciation. I endeavor to wiki righteously!
--[[User:Jerimee|Jerimee]] ([[User talk:Jerimee|talk]]) 02:17, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

:That predates me by a few years, actually. You have [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Community_Portal&dir=prev&action=history several people] to thank for that. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 02:32, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

== front page green banner weirdness ==

If you view the front page logged out there is some misformatted markup above the green v50 info for editors site notice. I couldn't figure out how to correct it or where it was being inserted.

It reads <nowiki>border-radius: 4px; -webkit-border-radius: 4px; -moz-border-radius: 4px; -o-border-radius: 4px; -ms-border-radius: 4px;</includly><nnclude>
Template:Documntation <clude> "></nowiki> and inspect source shows goat.jpg with alt text "rip this wiki."

Where should I report this? Is a screenshot helpful?
--[[User:Jerimee|Jerimee]] ([[User talk:Jerimee|talk]]) 00:27, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
:About a week ago or whatever, we had a really, ''really'' nasty vandal. That's an old leftover of his "work". --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 01:13, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

:I just cleared the site-wide cache. That didn't seem to have an immediate effect on the main page, so I purged it manually as well. If you see any other instances of this, feel free to purge the cache yourself: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Purge —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:20, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
::Seems to be gone now! [[User:Jerimee|Jerimee]] ([[User talk:Jerimee|talk]]) 02:31, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

== ru colon ==

What does <nowiki>ru:</nowiki>, as in <nowiki>[[ru:Language]]</nowiki>, do? Is "ru" is a name space? Maybe one created programmatically or with permission restrictions? Can you point me to where the doc is or where it should be? If it doesn't exist I'll create it as best I can. Thanks. [[User:Jerimee|Jerimee]] ([[User talk:Jerimee|talk]]) 06:24, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
: interwiki link to russian site... [[User:Jerimee|Jerimee]] ([[User talk:Jerimee|talk]]) 23:33, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

== Adding vermin to the "Creatures" page... ==

May I ask why vermin and other creatures are on seperate pages? And can I add the vermin list to the creatures list? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 11:28, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
:It's not something I decided and I'm not the only one you should ask (i.e. I would ask on a talk page somewhere), but my guess (based on several other distinctions I've seen across the wiki) is that it's due to vermin having different characteristics from other creatures. [[Vermin]] gives a far better explanation than I could. The two options I see are to either make more prominent cross-links in the explanatory text at [[Creature]] and [[Vermin]], or include the vermin table but make it very clear that vermin are different from other creatures. I don't really have a strong preference, although I do tend to stick with the established workflows (i.e. this distinction has worked for >10 years... not that we shouldn't improve it). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:23, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

== Plant and Tree Infoboxes ==
Me and Oddballjoe were wondering if you could add the image pass to the plants and tree infoboxes. If you have any time to spare that is. Those template pages look super outdated and I can't tell if they use the "aux" templates or not. I made a proposal for the trees:
<gallery widths="223px" heights="324px">
tree_infobox_example.png|Trunk and tile.
tree_infobox_example2.png|Trunk, branch, leaves and tile.
</gallery>
I mean, if that's easier to set up then the toggle thing. Again, if you want, and if you have the time. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 01:17, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
:I like the side-by-side idea. I'll try to find time this week. From a quick spot-check: [[Abaca]] uses {{tl|treelookup/0}}, which uses {{tl|treelookup/aux}}, which uses one of a few TreeInfo templates. It was using an old one for main (v50) pages, which I [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:Treelookup/aux&diff=prev&oldid=290794 just fixed here] - is that what you meant by "super outdated"? That's the only issue I saw (a template being old doesn't necessarily mean it's outdated).
:Anyway, if you're interested in editing templates, I'd suggest watching the edit history of all of these to see what changes are needed. Your [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Template:Treelookup/aux&diff=prev&oldid=290788 image change to treelookup/aux] looks fine to me, but it wouldn't have done anything by itself without corresponding changes to the other templates I mentioned. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 04:54, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
::No matter how hard I eyeball the edit history of the other templates, I can ''never'' figure out what the sweet hell I'm missing. Adding <code><nowiki>{{{image|}}}</nowiki></code> doesn't seem to do anything. I have no idea what other components must be added after that - to any page. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 06:43, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
:::Have you decided when you're gonna update the plant and tree infoboxes? For the record, it's no rush. Any time you choose is perfectly fine by me, even if it's next year. I added all the trunk and log sprites/colors, so that's that one done. I personally prefer the side-by-side proposal for the trees, but it's up to you, since you're the head admin. Also, I think the soillookup template (and any other similar template I probably can't think of right now) should have the toggle thing as well, but again, all up to you. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 01:05, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

== spheres ==

I found a list of 130 "spheres" here - https://github.com/DFHack/df-structures/blob/master/df.language.xml - and thought they were related to symbols. On comparison, they don't seem to be. What are spheres? [[User:Jerimee/spheres]]

''(I understand that the data at DFHack is structured for that mod, and the files there are not DF game files or DF raws. On line 209 I see you're importing the symbols directly. I'm interested in df.language.xml because it appears to structure the game data.)''

--[[User:Jerimee|Jerimee]] ([[User talk:Jerimee|talk]]) 23:33, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

:Could you ask DFHack questions in one of the [https://docs.dfhack.org/en/stable/docs/Introduction.html#getting-help DFHack support channels] instead? I don't personally know the answer to this one. (If by line 209 you mean [https://github.com/DFHack/df-structures/blob/8ae81f8d8f1f96d82b9074b205073bb8e8d29f96/df.language.xml#L209 this], that is only specifying the global vector that contains instances of "language_symbol".) —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:10, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

== Quality rating misunderstanding ==

Hi, I noticed you have had to undo a small percentage of my quality ratings. I was trying to be helpful, and always checking the [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality|quality]] guidelines, so I thought I'd drop you a comment here, so I can avoid wasting your time in future. To be specific, I think I am misinterpreting the use of [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality#Tattered|"tattered"]] rating, and I'm hoping you can give me some more specific guidelines. Also, for context: I have only started to get familiar with the wiki, as an editor, for a month or so, but I realise that there is currently an extremely high number of unrated pages post-v50.
 
I think my main points of confusion are the [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality#Tattered|tattered]] guidelines mentioning "lacks information", 'inaccurate information' and 'strictly need improvement'. From my perspective, one, or sometimes, all of these criteria, were the reason for my quality rating edit. Often, I felt these pages also very clearly didn't meet the criteria of a [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality#Tattered|"fine"]] rating, as defined on the same [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality|quality]] page, and consequently, leaves me quite perplexed. This is a long preamble to give context to, and hopefully not sound offensive when I say, that though I realise edit comments aren't very useful for detailed explanations, just commenting along the lines of 'that is not what the rating is for' has left me more, rather than less, confused.
Hopefully there is a clear misunderstanding of the guidelines on my part. However, if it is not so obvious in retrospect; considering the large number of currently unrated pages, could I suggest a review of the wording and examples on the [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Quality|quality]] rating page?
--[[User:Alpacalypse|Alpacalypse]] ([[User talk:Alpacalypse|talk]]) 13:26, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

:Sorry, I made a hasty edit and summary and should have clarified. What I meant is that ''only'' tagging an article as "tattered" isn't really what the quality rating system is for, because that doesn't tell the user ''what'' is wrong with the article (is it outdated? incomplete? something else?). I think a combination of marking the article with {{tl|quality|tattered}} and marking the affected information with {{tl|old}} or another appropriate template would help make it more obvious what the problem is. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 05:42, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
::Ahh, that makes a lot of sense, thanks for clarifying. In future, if I am just doing a quick edit like that for rating/improvement notes, that would benefit from elaboration, I'll be sure to leave a comment on the talk page. On a related note, I hadn't properly read the {{tl|Old}} documentation, and thought it was redundant with {{tl|Migrated article}}. So, one final question: In this case, if it looks like the only issues are with recent version changes, would it make sense to ''replace'' <nowiki>{{migrated article}}</nowiki> with <nowiki>{{old}}</nowiki> ( presumably <nowiki>{{old|v=50."xx"}}</nowiki> ), rather than leave both tags? --[[User:Alpacalypse|Alpacalypse]] ([[User talk:Alpacalypse|talk]]) 17:19, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
:::Sure, I think that makes sense. I think {{tl|migrated article}} is less specific and mostly for unchecked content that may or may not be outdated (while {{tl|old}} and similar templates are more specific to what needs to change). —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 17:23, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
::::I thought it might be a good idea to share my current edit of [[XML_dump|XML dump]]. I suspect it may now be a bit too cluttered with (possibly redundant) info from tags, but I thought it might be a good reference for you to consider. Feel free to just revert, but if you have any notes on best practices for an article like this, I'll take them on board. Very brief overview of reasoning in summary comment. --[[User:Alpacalypse|Alpacalypse]] ([[User talk:Alpacalypse|talk]]) 17:48, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

== No problem ==

Hello Lethosor,

Thanks for reverting the page back. I've been a fan of the DF wiki for quite a while, and when I saw the
vandalism, I wanted to nip it in the bud immediately. I'm glad someone who knew how to repair
things more efficiently found the solution quickly!

Sincerely,
johnf5007
--[[User:Johnf5007|Johnf5007]] ([[User talk:Johnf5007|talk]]) 23:44, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

== Fighting against vandalism ==

Hello, I noticed that recently the wiki has been attacked by vandals. How should I notify the administrators if such a thing keeps occurring? [[User:Lowtax|Lowtax]] ([[User talk:Lowtax|talk]]) 23:58, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
:They have already been notified (myself included) and have dealt with it. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 00:03, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
::Okay, understood. Is there any noticeboard for vandalism for future incidents? [[User:Lowtax|Lowtax]] ([[User talk:Lowtax|talk]]) 01:10, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
:::[[DF:AIV]] can work, especially for isolated incidents. Usually people will notice pretty quickly for larger incidents. —[[User:Lethosor|Lethosor]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|talk]]) 01:29, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
::::Okay, I'll keep that in mind. [[User:Lowtax|Lowtax]] ([[User talk:Lowtax|talk]]) 15:45, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::Yes, I'm sure you will the next time you try to vandalize our site. Don't you have anything better to do with your spare time? --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] ([[User talk:Quietust|talk]]) 16:38, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

== (Title here) ==

(Respected Sir, I wanted to update some guides, these are some guides I have myself made.
My Steam guides page : https://steamcommunity.com/id/Sniper231996/myworkshopfiles/?section=guides&appid=975370
I shall do as you have mentioned)
--[[User:Sniper231996|Sniper231996]] ([[User talk:Sniper231996|talk]]) 08:10, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Cage

2023-12-05T07:34:59Z

Sniper231996: /* Comparison of cage types */

{{Quality|Exceptional|12:28, 21 February 2023 (CST)}}
{{av}}

{{V50_furniture
|graphic=[[File:Cage_Premium.png]]
|name=Cage
|tile=‼|col=0:6:0
|wood=y
|metal=y
|glass=y
|rooms=
* [[Jail]] (if metal)
}}
:''For information on cage traps, see [[Trap#Cage_Trap|traps]].''

'''Cages''' are used in [[cage trap]]s, [[jail]]s, [[zoo]]s, [[Activity_zone#Pit/Pond|pit]]s and aquariums. A glass cage is called a '''terrarium''' or, if filled with [[water]] for holding [[Captured live fish|captured]] live aquatic [[vermin]], an '''aquarium'''.

Cages are stored in an animal [[stockpile]] (unless they have been [[Wear|worn out]] somehow, in which case they are stored in a refuse stockpile). Dwarves will attempt to collect and store cages in stockpiles if the "Dwarves Gather Animals" [[Standing_orders|order]] ({{k|y}} - '''Standing orders''' tab - '''Hauling''' tab) is enabled.

Empty cage storage can be controlled by toggling the "empty cages" option for animal stockpiles.

==Building and using a cage==
[[File:cage_preview.jpg|thumb|270px|right|Cages work well for humanoids as well.]][[File:cage_trap_preview.jpg|thumb|270px|right|Capturing that thing was the "easy" part. ''Art by kruggsmash'']]

A cage can be constructed from a log of [[wood]] at a [[carpenter's workshop]], three bars of [[metal]] at a [[metalsmith's forge]], or from [[glass]] at a [[glass furnace]].

You can then either build them on a tile via {{k-|b|r|g}} (this is needed for linking a [[lever]] to them, or assigning a tame animal to it) or simply keep them stockpiled so they can be used to load cage [[trap]]s.

When building a cage, you can choose a cage that already has something inside. To precisely select which cage to use, you can expand the list of cages with {{k|x}}.

===Creature containment===

To assign creatures to a cage, first build the cage in the location you want using {{k-|b|r|g}}. You can only assign creatures to a cage that is not part of a dungeon zone. Cages in a dungeon will have prisoners assigned automatically as part of the [[Justice#Cages_and_Chains|justice]] system. To assign a creature to the cage, first select the cage, and then press the "+" button on its status page. Use {{k|Shift}} and the mouse wheel to quickly scroll up and down the list of [[creatures]], and {{k|click}} to assign them to the cage. Creatures currently assigned to the cage are listed at the top; the rest of the creatures are listed in order of arrival on the map (including any inaccessible creatures). Note that tame grazing creatures will starve if left in cages, though pet owners may feed their pets. Instead of caging grazers, assign them to a [[zone|pasture]] that has plenty of tasty [[grass]] and/or [[cave moss]].

Multiple creatures can be assigned to the same cage with no penalty. It is possible to fit hundreds of [[dog|puppies]] with dozens of [[dragon]]s, and whatever other animals are on hand, in a single cage with no ill effects. This has led some players to conclude that cages include some sort of hidden "cage space" that allows infinitely tight packing of creatures.

There is no particular labor for releasing creatures from built cages. Select the cage to examine it (it must first be "built," not just stored - use {{k-|b|r|g}} to build a cage, and then to toggle the animal(s) currently inside (animals assigned to the cage will show up on the cage's page). Any available dwarf will perform the job, so beware of pitting untamed or hostile creatures with a weak dwarf.

Alternatively, creatures can be released from un-built cages provided that they are able to be assigned to a pasture, i.e. animals, tame or otherwise. Once assigned to a pasture, a dwarf will automatically remove them from their cage and lead them to their assigned pasture. Note that if the cage containing the creature is already within the pasture, the creature will '''not''' be released, as it is considered to be already in its pasture.

Caged citizens of (and visitors to) your fort, if wounded, will be freed by the "Recover Wounded" job and taken to the nearest hospital zone. This mostly occurs during loyalty cascades, when separatists are knocked unconscious while fighting on a cage trap. If the hauling dwarf is from the other faction, it is possible that they lay the patient in bed and then immediately attack her.

You can get details about the creatures which are in a built cage by pressing {{k|t}} and then {{k|enter}}. There, you can scroll the list of creatures and get details, for example, you can tell whether a creature is male or female, which is useful if you are preparing a breeding program.

[[Vermin]] can also be assigned to cages, to save space or [[animal trap]]s. However, if you try to release them ({{k|q}} and then {{k|a}}), the dwarf will pickup an animal trap and put the poor creature back in a stock cage. To explicitly release an animal, instead "pull" the animal somewhere else: either assign the animal to a [[pit]] (which could simply be a hillside outside your fortress), or a pasture. This has the benefit of making it clear where the animal is being released. However, keep in mind the dwarf will uncage the animal first and then lead it to the release, so large/dangerous animals may escape en route. Consider using the [[dump]] command to move the cage before release, or assign the animal stockpile next to the pit/pasture.

Bees show up in the list of creatures that can be assigned to a cage, but the dwarves will not start the task, and it will not be shown in the {{k|j}}obs list.

Creatures in cages cannot be attacked (though any existing attack orders will '''not''' automatically cancel, leaving your militiadwarves milling around the cage uselessly). Most caged creatures are also unable to attack, although some special attacks (such as gaseous noxious secretions) can still be used. Creatures in cages are also immune to damage from falling, and falling objects. [[Breeding]] creatures are unable to get pregnant if caged, although they will give birth while caged if they were already pregnant. Creatures in cages also age, so [[kitten]]s in a cage will eventually become adult cats. Creatures in cages are affected by extreme temperatures, and [[dwarven atom smasher|atom smashing]] the cage will also obliterate the occupants, even if they are normally immune to smashing. Casting a cage in [[obsidian]] will not harm the occupants (though the temperature might, if the cage is subjected to magma for very long).

Beware of cages that contain creature(s) with very high internal temperature, such as [[fire imp]]s. They cannot harm your dwarves directly while caged, but their body heat ''can''; by heating up the tile that the cage occupies. If the cage-hauler is very slow and weak, they may spend enough time in each tile to feel the effects of the heat, and they will, dutifully but foolishly, continue to haul the cage until their head melts off. To move "hot" cages safely over long distances, make sure that a strong or fast dwarf hauls it.

"Deconstructing" a cage via {{k-|q|x}} with creatures in it does not harm the cage, the dwarves will return the cage (with the creatures in it) to the nearest animal stockpile.

If you melt the cages, creatures inside will be released.

==== Trading contained creatures ====

Most creatures can be traded, but not sapients (such as goblins, trolls, trologdytes). If you attempt to haul caged sapient creatures to the trade depot, they will try to escape instead, and many times they will not go without a fight!

===Prisons===
{{Outdatedsection}}
'''Outdated: version 50.11 does not use {{k|q}} for {{k|q}uery, but instead for s{{k|q}}uads.'''

To set a cage as a [[jail]], {{k|q}}uery the cage, designate it as a {{k|r}}oom, and then set it to be used for {{k|j}}ustice. Only [[metal]] cages may be used in this way, despite [[wood]]en cages being strong enough to hold [[dragon]]s.

If the cage is already located within a designated Jail room, it will be automatically included in the jail.

===Remotely opening cages===

A built cage can be linked to a [[lever]] to remotely open it. When the cage opens, the occupant(s) inside are released, the cage and [[mechanism]] deconstruct and can be returned to their respective stockpiles. Note that you have to use a "built" cage as described above, it won't work with cages on your stockpile. Also note that the mechanism attached to the lever will '''not''' automatically deconstruct; you have to manually deconstruct the lever to get back the mechanism used to open the cage.

Alternately, when traders are around, you can select "move good to trading depot" and select the cage of choice. When a hauler takes the cage, any untameable creatures inside will be released; be sure to disarm the creature beforehand... This is also the easiest way of releasing caged dwarves.

A way to release creatures from stockpiled cages (which have not been built) is to assign the creatures to a [[pasture]] (which is possible for any living thing except dwarves). The same precautions as for trading the cage should be taken first.

Another way is to use the [[container]] spilling effect: cages [[Trap_design#Shotgun|hurled from a colliding minecart]] ''also'' spill their contents upon collision (see [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3340230#msg3340230 this forum message]). This combines timing control of a lever or pressure plate with the reusability of pitting. If you want to deliver Goblin snatchers into your target practice room despite [[Thief|thieves]]' ability to wriggle out of normal pitting, or a bunch of [[cave floater]]s toward invaders, this method may be preferable.

===Cages and fluids===

A cage will protect a creature inside it from [[swimmer|drowning]], so if you want to drown a creature in a cage, you must open it remotely, as explained in the above section (as a corollary, if your fortress is drowning in water, you can cage your dwarves and rescue them later). However, built cages will not protect caged creatures from [[magma]], making this a somewhat faster option, as it doesn't require linking each cage to a lever. Cages which are not [[magma-safe]] will be degraded and/or destroyed by this process, and cages which are made of flammable materials (such as wood) may be set on [[fire]]. Any items the creature had equipped will teleport {{verify}} to wherever the creature was caged, typically a tile with a [[cage trap]] on it. These items may or may not be on fire; no case of teleporting !!large cave spider silk sock!!s have yet been observed, but this doesn't prove it can't happen. Exercise caution.

It's also possible to cage fluids(done by pushing uncaged animals/invaders over armed cage traps with water.) The cage containing the liquid must be built to remove the liquid. *magma not tested (yet)

===Buying cages ===
Traders may bring cages for sale. If those contain a [[tame]]d [[creature]] or [[vermin]], the item will be listed as ''(creature) cage'', and the material will only be mentioned in parentheses behind the item name, e.g. Wolf Cage (Oaken).

===Selling caged creatures ===
If you want to sell an animal, you need to assign it to a constructed cage first (see above) and then deconstruct the cage by {{K|q}}uerying it and pressing {{K|x}}. You can then select the cage in the trading menu.

Note that only tamed animals can be traded safely. The dwarf assigned to hauling a container will look through its contents and chuck out anything that can't be traded. In the case of cages, this means anything sentient - including such nasties as [[cyclops|cyclopes]].{{Bug|4065}} Letting such monsters loose in the middle of your fort is good [[fun]].

=== How to disarm hostiles in cages ===
An easy way to take away all prisoner-held armor and clothing is via the mass designation tool. Designate an area with {{K|i}}-{{K|p}} to dump an area (i.e. your animal [[stockpile]], filled with caged prisoners). Afterwards, go over each cage and click on the garbage can icon for each of them - this stops the dumping on the cages themselves. You will need a [[Activity zone#Garbage Dump|garbage dump]] set up already for the dwarves to take the dumped items to. The dwarves will strip the prisoners naked and haul the items away. The cages themselves (and the creatures within) will remain in place. The items will end up in the garbage dump zone. If you want to reuse the items, you need only to designate claim {{K|i}} on your garbage dump zone to reclaim the items after they are dumped there. If your animal stockpile is outdoors, you need to have the "Dwarves Gather Refuse from Outside" {{K|y}}/Standing order set.

An easier way to selectively disarm prisoners is to designate mass forbid {{K|i}}-{{K|f}} and mass dump {{K|i}}-{{K|p}} on all of the caged prisoner stockpile. You will need a [[bookkeeper]] for this. Press {{K|k}} and go to the [[stocks]] screen. Find an item category with items marked '''F''' and '''D'''. Press {{K|f}} to remove the '''F''' for those items, but don't remove the '''D'''. This will unforbid them, but they will remain marked for dumping. When you exit the stocks screen, the dwarves will haul those items from the cages and drop them into the garbage dump. When the dwarves have finished the hauling tasks, designate a mass claim {{K|i}} and mass undump {{K|i}}-{{K|P}} on the same area as earlier to remove the forbid and dump designations from the cages and the rest of the contents.

This method can be used to confiscate specific items from caged prisoners, like weapons, armor or bags containing stolen property or kidnapped children. It can be more useful to just remove their weapons if you want to use your caged prisoners for target practice; they will be more durable with their clothes and armor equipped, but not very dangerous without their weapons.

To selectively remove only weapons from caged prisoners, first claim the entire prisoner stockpile, then {{K|d}}-{{K|b}}-{{K|h}} to hide everything including cages, buildings and prisoner equipment. Go in to your standard (non-dfhack) stock screen and browse the weapons section. Anything tagged with a blue '''H''' is a hidden prisoners' weapon, dump them. Once you have selectively removed only their weapons, use {{K|d}}-{{K|b}}-{{K|H}} to unhide everything. This works with everything like shields and armor, not just weapons.

[http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=81601.0 Source.]

Alternatively, [https://dfhack.readthedocs.io/en/stable/docs/_auto/base.html#stripcaged dfhack 'stripcaged'] is available, but the 'weapons' switch also removes their shields.

'''An updated process for v50 can be found in the following reddit conversation:''' https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/zluzq6/disarming_caged_prisoners/

=== Emptying refuse ===
If you [[animal trainer|tame an animal]] while it is inside a cage (a process which involves feeding a plant to the caged animal), you may leave seeds inside the cage. To get these out, you must mark them for [[activity zone#Garbage_Dump|dumping]], designate a garbage zone, and wait for a dwarf to dump the seeds in the garbage zone. Then you can reclaim them.

Animals that expire in a cage (built in a [[zoo]], or just sitting in an animal stockpile) also clutter up the cage until removed. If the cage is unbuilt and the animal is [[butcher]]able, your dwarves may haul the animal, cage included, to the butcher shop for processing. If not, you will need to manually clean the cage by dumping the corpse and any other items.

Marking refuse for dumping can be done by pressing {{k|k}} for an unbuilt cage ({{k|t}} for a built cage), then selecting the cage and pressing {{k|Enter}}, then selecting the item and pressing {{k|Enter}} again, and finally pressing {{k|d}} to mark the item (rather than the cage) for dumping. Or if there is a lot of refuse, you can use {{k|d}}-{{k|b}}-{{k|d}} to mass-dump everything in the tile, and then un-mark the cage itself.

=== How to quickly empty out many cages ===
If you have many [[Trap#Cage_Trap|cage traps]] then you may have trouble emptying out cages quickly enough at times. See [[Mass pitting]] for suggestions on how to quickly recycle cages. Be advised that there are now reports of frequent escapes while using this method (confirmed for v0.40.10).

Another easy way to quickly empty cages is to simply send the imprisoned creatures to a pasture, where your squad can slaughter them.
(Your dwarves can drag every goblin except thieves).
The easiest way is to place the pasture right next to the cages and let your dwarves shoot them down. This way you can kill the thieves and monsters too.

Another fun method is to put a 1x1 pasture in the middle of your barracks. Next, tell a squad to kill the target creature in the cage and watch them line up around the prisoner. Finally, assign the prisoner to the pasture in the middle of the barracks. A dwarf will be along shortly to drag the prisoner from the stockpile to the pasture, while your squad beats on them en route. Even thieves that can't be dragged are still mobbed by your squad waiting as soon as the cage is opened.

== Comparison of cage types ==
As stated before, cages can be made either of wood, metal, or glass. The choice of material reflects the cage's usefulness at certain tasks. To compare:
* '''Wooden''' cages are [[weight|light]] and [[value|cheap]], and easy to mass-produce in most [[biome]]s. They are notably not resistant to [[fire]], and will burn up in a forest fire, even when already loaded into an otherwise fire-safe [[cage trap]]. Wooden cages can also be bought from [[elf|elven]] [[caravan]]s if your site has no access to wood itself.

* '''Metal''' cages have the advantage of not being flammable. These are usually [[fire-safe]], and a few types are [[magma-safe]] as well, but this varies depending on what [[metal]] they are made of. These cages are inferior for usage in cage traps, though, because of their high [[weight]] they take ''a lot'' of time to be hauled back and forth. Cages made of cheap metals (copper, tin, zinc, nickel, lead) can be bought in bulk from [[human]] and [[dwarf|dwarven]] merchants, and are the only type of cages these merchants will ever sell.

* '''Glass''' terrariums can be made at a [[glass furnace]] from as little as a [[bag]] of renewable [[sand]]. The three types of glass have exactly the same physical properties, they differ only in [[value]]. All are magma-safe, having a melting temperature higher than any metal. They are heavier than wooden, but much lighter than metal ones, and their weight usually does not inhibit hauling jobs. For all non-decorative uses, green glass should be chosen, as it requires less ingredients and takes less time to be produced than other types of glass.

If you wish to know, how to build a fish tank, otherwise known as an aquarium, I shall link this guide here for you : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924311982
{{D for Dwarf}}

Dwarf scientists are trying to develop a new type of portable cage traps, small enough that even a dwarf child can throw it at wild animals to catch it. So far they haven't made any significant progress.

{{buildings}}

==Bugs==

* Creatures in cages that come from dead merchants can only be freed by assigning them to a [[Zone#Pen/Pasture|pen/pasture zone]] and then when they have been put there, deassigning them from the pen/pasture.
* When bringing a cage to the Trade Depot in order to trade it, any untameable creatures inside the cage will be freed. Tamed (and presumably also wild but tameable) animals can be safely traded. {{Bug|4065}}
* Aquariums cannot be used to store large fish (they will drown), though vermin fish work just fine. {{Bug|1590}}
* Dwarves trapped in cages cannot be directly freed. They can only be released by building the cage and connecting a [[lever]] to it, or ordering the cage be brought to a trade depot. {{bug|3070}}

{{Translation
| dwarven = mokez
| elvish = ofúru
| goblin = obtux
| human = tin
}}

{{Category|Justice}}
{{Category|Buildings}}

Silk farming

2023-12-05T07:32:56Z

Sniper231996: /* Cave spider silk farm */

{{migrated article}}
{{Quality|Unrated}}
{{projects}}{{av}}
'''Silk farming''' is the process of harvesting large quantities of [[Silk|silk]] from [[web]]slinging creatures like [[giant cave spider]]s. Several setups have been devised to farm silk quickly and safely, but successful silk farms have a few traits in common:

# The webslinging creature must be aggressive toward the bait, and willing to web it. Tame giant cave spiders are not willing to web invaders{{verify}}, while wild spiders appear to only be willing to web ''active military'' dwarves or invaders{{verify}}. [[forgotten beast|Various other untamable creatures]] remain willing to web most tame animals (with [[cat]]s being a possible exception). Tame spiders are not aggressive toward animals on restraints.
# The webslinging creature must not be able to reach its bait; if it can, the bait (or creature) will die and no further silk will be generated. Spiders can destroy wooden doors but not stone or metal doors. They cannot pass through forbidden doors. Other silk-spewing creatures can destroy all non-[[artifact]] doors, requiring drawbridges or walls for containment
# Web collection cannot occur in sight of wild webslingers or invaders serving as bait; either will cause dwarves to interrupt collection. Drawbridges work well to block line of sight in either case, as webs will not prevent them from raising.

==Cave spider silk farm==

Cave spider silk farms are probably the easiest silk farms to set up since the spiders are so small that they don't represent a serious danger to your dwarves.

# Trap a dozen or more cave spiders via the Vermin Catcher's Shop.
# Release them into an enclosed area - mined out vein does the job - with access through a hatch from above. Precaution is necessary to prevent vermin hunters like cats from entering the area.
# Place a loom close to the access and assign it to a single weaver. Let it collect webs on repeat.

Since occasional bites are unavoidable, assigning the loom to a single weaver is important. Best use a dwarf already bitten by a cave spider and affected by the resulting dizziness. Despite the slowing effect of cave spider dizziness this farm will produce a steady stream of silk.

Here is another reference guide for easier understanding of this concept with more ideas and blueprints for whoever wishes to attempt this. I shall just link it here : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014678116

===Passive cave spider silk farm===
All cavern layers spawn webs ([http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176521.msg8147034#msg8147034 1]). All that is needed for a modest but very safe supply of silk, is to mine out vast areas of the cavern layers. These don't need physical connection to the cavern, it suffices that they are in the same layer as the cavern. Silk webs will start to appear in them as well - that makes it very easy and safe to collect silk. If mined soon after embark, this can significantly boost the early supply of silk.

==Simple silk farm==
{{diagram|spaces=yes|color=#888|\
╔═════════╗
║+++++++++║
║+++++++++╠═╗
║+++++++++┼+║
┼++++++++[#080]╥║[#0F0]^║
║++++++++[#080]║[#F00]╬┼╣
║++++++++[#080]║[#F00]╬S║
║++++++++[#080]║[#F00]╬═╝
┼++++++++[#080]╨║
║+++++++++║
║+++++++++║
║+++++++++║
╚═════════╝
}}
# Dig out (and optionally smooth) a sufficiently large room (example shown is 9x11)
# Build a [[cage]] containing an '''untamed''' spider at the gray "S", and link it to a lever
# Build a '''non-wooden''' [[door]] above the spider cage, and mark it forbidden and pet-inaccessible
# Recommended: build a [[cage trap]] on the green "^" to recapture your spider later
# [[Construction|Construct]] all of the red [[fortification]]s
# Build the green [[bridge]], raising lengthwise to form a long wall.
# Build a [[lever]] somewhere convenient in your fortress and link it to the green bridge
# Pull the lever linked to the cage to release the spider
# Order a '''non-ranged''' military dwarf to station or patrol in the room (but '''not''' on the green bridge)
# Raise the green bridge periodically to allow your bait dwarf to escape, then lower it again to resume production
# Your weavers ''may'' collect webs during production if they have sufficient discipline; if not, leave the green bridge raised while they collect the webs
# Set pull lever on repeat to have automatic production and collection

There is a small chance of injury if the creature gets hit by the projectile silk, but having the creature stand more than 3 tiles away from your spider seems to prevent this.

==High-volume silk farm==

{{diagram|spaces=yes|color=#888|\
z z-1 z-2
╔═════╦┼══╗ ╔═════╗ ╔═════╗
║[#080]╔[#080]═[#080]═[#080]═[#080]╗┼+++║ ║[#0AA]╔[#0AA]═[#0AA]═[#0AA]═[#0AA]╗┼ ║+++++┼
║[#080]║[#080]+[#080]+[#080]+[#080]║[#F00]╬+║[#0F0]^║ ║[#0AA]║[#0AA]+[#0AA]+[#0AA]+[#0AA]║╠═┼╗ ║+++++║
║[#080]║[#080]+[#080]+[#080]+[#080]║[#F00]╬+╠[#888]┼╣ ║[#0AA]║[#0AA]+[#0AA]+[#0AA]+[#0AA]║║++║ ║+++++║
║[#080]║[#080]+[#080]+[#080]+[#080]║[#F00]╬[#FF0]H[#F00]╬[#CCC]S║ ║[#0AA]║[#0AA]+[#0AA]+[#0AA]+[#0AA]║║++║ ║+++++║
║[#080]║[#080]+[#080]+[#080]+[#080]║[#F00]╬+╠═╝ ║[#0AA]║[#0AA]+[#0AA]+[#0AA]+[#0AA]║║++║ ║+++++║
║[#080]║[#080]+[#080]+[#080]+[#080]║[#F00]╬+║ ║[#0AA]║[#0AA]+[#0AA]+[#0AA]+[#0AA]║╠══╝ ║+++++║
║[#080]╚[#080]═[#080]═[#080]═[#080]╝║[#59F]!║ ║[#0AA]╚[#0AA]═[#0AA]═[#0AA]═[#0AA]╝║ ║+++++║
╚═════╩═╝ ╚═════╝ ╚═════╝

}}

# Dig out the three chambers as shown.
# Smooth and carve the red [[fortification]]s.
# [[Channel]] out the areas in green and cyan, linking all three levels
# Build the large green [[bridge]] (retracting) and large cyan bridge (retracting)
# Construct a [[pressure plate]] in a well-traveled area (or a [[repeater]]) and link it to the green bridge
# Build a [[lever]] and link it to the cyan bridge
# Build a [[cage]] containing an '''untamed''' spider at the gray "S", and link it to a lever
# Build a '''non-wooden''' [[door]] above the spider cage, and mark it forbidden.
# Channel the yellow "H", build a [[hatch cover]] there, and link it to a lever. This will allow you to remove the bait dwarf and stop production.
# Recommended: build a [[cage trap]] on the green "^" to recapture your spider later
# Evacuate the upper two chambers and forbid the bridge-access doors
# Pull the lever linked to the cage to release the spider
# Station or order a melee dwarf to patrol to the blue '!'; lock the door after he enters the chamber
# The spider will blast the bait with webs. When the green bridge automatically retracts, the webs will fall and stack on the cyan bridge
# Pull the lever linked to the cyan bridge to drop the stacked webs to the bottom level for collection
# Remember to release your bait dwarf periodically

Note that a simple pit in the harvesting chamber will not work--the bridge is required to cause the "web objects" to drop to the next level (and stack). Because falling items are deadly, it is necessary to collect the webs on the "holding" bridge and only drop them into the collection chamber when your weavers are clear. Also, webs "tossed" by the retracting bridge can injure anything they hit, so your bait dwarf may require occasional replacement. One spider can easily keep several weavers busy, and collecting all the webs provides a great opportunity for [[cross-training]].

'''Extra automation of the silk farm'''
#Station a weredwarf or vampire as spiderbait. Now your melee dwarf does not need to be replaced and can be totally locked in.
#Use an enemy invader instead of a dwarf as the web target{{verify}}. Recapture it with a cage, similarly to how the spider is recaptured.

==Notes on exotic webslingers==

Farming silk from other [[forgotten beast|procedurally]] [[titan|generated]] creatures is somewhat more difficult and less rewarding. As level 2 [[building destroyer]]s, these creatures can only be contained by [[bridge]]s or [[artifact]] [[door]]ways. They are also immune to [[trap]]s, making positioning in the farm rather more complicated. Finally, without a value modifier, the collected silk will be equivalent in [[value]] to common [[cave spider]] silk. They do still provide a nearly-inexhaustible source of silk thread, and with some effort their webs can also be used to [[cage trap|cage]] other trap immune creatures. Also, webslingers with modified material properties (e.g. IGNITE_POINT) can produce webs that retain those properties (e.g. fire-safe or magma-safe silk).

[[File:silk_farming_preview.jpg|thumb|400px|center|Silk farming in China, 1700s.]]

{{Translation| dwarven = nesteth ivom | elvish = yarare tòbafí | goblin = egod gotåm | human = sushsath ab}}

{{Category|Fortress mode}}
[[ru:Silk farming]]