Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

User talk:Albedo

2009-06-19T09:42:52Z

Teres Draconis: /* Various disagreements */

== Aluminum in copper ==

I have definitely seen aluminum inside a copper vein. It was freakin amazing. Also found 3 magnetite flippin huge clusters, each as big as my fort, 3 lignite veins, 2 microcline (bleagh) big groups, gold and silver vein, 1 hematite vein. It was great. More iron than I know what to do with. But totally aluminum in copper. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:26, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Stone articles ==

The articles on the various types of [[stone]] are based entirely on data taken from the game raws. It's possible the raw data has changed since the article was written, but observation alone is not good enough when we have that kind of inside info. If you see some sort of weird anomaly (like veins of aluminum), then Toady would most likely appreciate a bug report about that. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:28, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
:not veins of aluminum. Aluminum adjacent to veins. I have seen it in hematite, and copper. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:05, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

::Could someone point me to where the discussions are on how the articles should be set up? Sorry. I just... I'm being impulsive and driven and stuff and I want to know so I can /do/ stuff, and... you know, stuff. With stuff in it. I'm clearer after sleep, I promise. (Don't believe me, I'm always ambiguous, though rarely by intent.) --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 08:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::NM. Found it. Duh... Trust me, sleep ''is'' my friend. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

== (response) ==

But ''is'' it an anomaly? I'm not sure how to read the RAW's at that level. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

::Both are IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE, so, depending upon how the raws are acted upon, there are several ways this could happen...
:::1) The layer tiles are replaced first with veins(copper), and then small clusters (aluminum). Veins sometimes leave pockets of the layer stone incased, when the vein splits and then reconnects. I've seen it a few times, but I wouldn't call it common. The small cluster that would have been aluminum if the copper weren't there covers part or all of the area within the pocket. The rest of area of the small cluster is ignored, since the aluminum raws do not mention copper. (The way platinum mentions magnetite, for example).
:::2) The layer tiles are replaced first with the small clusters (aluminum) and then the veins (copper)... the copper vein just happens to meander around the pre-existing aluminum.
:::3) It does several iterations of whatever order it does, making both options 1 and 2 possible, potentially simultaniously (though not in the same tile, obviously).
:::4) Something completely different I have no clue about. I could make some stabs at things that could have caused that result, but they would all be both difficult and clunky, both in the design and in the implimentation.
:::5) It glitched. It's a computer. It happens all the time.
::Was that ''completely'' useless, or just mostly so? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC) (Poking around at modding is helping me learn to read RAW)

==Trader==

If the Appraiser skill is the highest skill you have, isn't the profession "trader"? I know I've seen the trader profession before. Below is what I think the skill/professions are.

Appraiser -> Trader 
Building designer -> Architect 
Organizer -> Administrator 
Record keeper ->Clerk 

I ''think'' that you are correct in that the overall skill (when you have two or more skills close in skill level) is also adminstrator. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Just read your log - I notice you build walls around the pipe. Have you considered a channel around the pit? Same effect, but you don't have to carry stone.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 21:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

:Fixed Trader - my bad. Read the Skill discussion page - that group of skills is not at all clear.

:I don't intend to go near the imps - the wall will create an AG enclosure above my dining hall/kitchen area, for AG crops, statue garden, private water and fishing area, etc etc. (More extensive answers in Kwieland's talk page) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:15, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

== fuel ==
While it is true that I moved the page to "Refined coal", the page I moved it from was "Refined Coal". The naming convention you were asking about is to only capitalize the first letter, since wiki links are case sensitive on all letters except the first. I think the original name of the article was "Refined Coal".

As for the origin of the term, it appears in the cancellation message if you assign a fuel-requiring task when you have no fuel. If this message no longer shows up, I have no qualms about retiring the term. However, if it still does then "refined coal" is a more suitable name than "fuel" since only "refined coal" appears in-game. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:I agree that the confusion needs to be cleared up, but I don't think separating [[fuel]] and [[refined coal]] into separate articles will help since they are just words for the same thing. I think that the best solution would be a short disambiguation at the top of the [[refined coal]] page. As long as all the terms redirect to that page anyone interested in any of them will end up seeing it. As for the title, we should definitely prefer an in-game term over a forum-supplied term. Everyone who uses the wiki plays the game, but not everyone uses the forum.

:The article as-is contains all the information pertaining to the naming issue, but if you think it's confusing, the page organization may be to blame. Perhaps information pertaining to names and categories could be consolidated at the top. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

::There is no such thing as "fuel coal". The terms are "refined coal" and "coal fuel". [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:::I know, I know! And I find I can't shake that term! (esp when tired). Not sure where used it this time, but it's like Pres. Bush saying "nucular arsenal". Arrrggghhhh!!!! --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:52, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

== Olivine ==

See [[Talk:Olivine]] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

==That revealed vein comment of Zchris13==
I totally understand why you undid that, but it was sort of funny. And I can accomplish that without using a third party utility. I can create down stairs on the level above, which reveals the tile. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:57, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== armorsmith page - re quality of artifact armor ==

In my head, I thought artifact armour & weapons were better than masterwork too, but that's not what the [[Item quality]] page says:

:☼Item Name☼ Masterful ×12 ×2.0
:Unique name Artifact ×120 ×2.0

And we should assume that's accurate, neh?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:nobody knows. It is a mystery!!!! Ohhhh... I really don't know what to believe. Toady has dropped contradicting hints, people report contradicting data, and nobody really knows what is going on. I say we just put a maybe in there. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 02:00, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

== Sorting table on [[Metal]] page by color ==

The issue is that the only plaintext in the color column is "*", which is hard to sort by. If we want it to be sortable we need the plaintext of each entry to not be identical. A pretty way to pull this off isn't coming to mind, but that's the goal. Nice work on the table, by the way. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:22, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:Maybe the first letter of the color name, in the same color as the background. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:15, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

::Or change the tile entirely - the more I look at it, not sure what the whole "background color" achieves. But as I understand it the use of the icon (the asterisk) representing the ore is the problem. May take some rethinking.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:Every metal has a unique foreground color and a unique background color. On items like doors, you get to see both. This is actually why doors are included in the corners of the diagram on the assorted metal pages (eg: [[copper]]) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
::: <Nods> Got it. Is there a way to "pipe" the icon in, and use some numerical representation to sort? Meh, you've probably thought of that. Or piping the icon in??? Or using a subtly diff icon? Sorting by color is, admittedly, perhaps the least of our concerns with that table. Maybe remove the "sortable" part from the template for now?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:24, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
:What is it we are sorting here? --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
:: Metal page table (fixed in sub-title above)
HA! fixed. me r hte supra jeeeenius! Completely by accident, natch. Tried adding numbers in w/ the asterisks, to give the system something to sort. That worked w/ only 2 numbers, they ''all'' sorted. So I backed out, and tried same w/ small numbers for a better look. Then w/ only 1 small "A" for adamantine, no numbers - that worked too! Then, just for the helluvit, I tried making one asterisk small - and that worked too, w/ no visible difference in text. All it needed was one difference, and they all get sorted, np. woot and a half.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:32, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
:lol. Did you try it with no change at all? I bet that would have sorted, too. Why? Because the edit right before yours was a fix :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
::... buzzkill! LOL! didn't even see an edit before mine. suuuuupra jeeeeenius!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:02, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== User name vs preferred name/nickname ==

Albedo, I don't know why you think that it's unacceptable for someone to use a different name to sign their posts. 
There's a built-in function for doing exactly that (once you figure out how to use it) in your preferences. 
Additionally, while this isn't Wikipedia, you still shouldn't bite the newbies. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:I guess because I'm used to going to "User:Name" to find their page, and that doesn't work - why take one username when you intend to use an entirely diff nickname? And I felt I was more muzzling than biting - over-enthusiasm is laudable, and ignorance is something that everyone has, but a bad combination together in public.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:59, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::Personally, I joined with my usual semi-anonymous handle, as I wasn't sure I'd stick around, or that the wiki was going to be worth working on. Later decided that I was going to try to be a significant part of the community, and set my nickname/signature to my Real first name. That's probably something similar to most people who use non-User name signatures. It's also possible that what name people would normally choose won't work for signing up. ''In the end, clicking the signature of a user will take you there, regardless of what they put in it or why they don't use their user name.'' -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Do tell. And you do this "clicking" thing with that computer mouse thing???... Stating the obvious is... well, exactly what it is. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:48, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::::lol... ok, you want blunt? Don't tell other people to do something a certain way that you prefer, simply because you don't want to use the system already in place. -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

:::No, altho' blunt serves it's purpose. However now you're simply repeating what you've already said, which again serves none. But it seems I must follow suit - if I want to go to your page but don't have your sig in front of me, I would normally type "User:Edward" in the search box and hit "go" - that doesn't work. Hence, problematic, and NO direct system is in place. Solution? Either Search, or create a redirect for you. And your personal shift in names is not what TD did - which I thought would also be obvious. Your concern is admirable - I think you are/were confused as to my exact position, which is "Why adopt a psuedonym ''the same day'' you create the User Account?".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::It annoys me too, Albedo. But I really just think we should let it lie. Can't really hurt anything, can it? Other than our brains, but whatever.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::<nods> --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::... I didn't mean to get you all riled up. And thank you, [[User:N9103|Edward]], for asking him not to bite me, but I /did/ rather earn it... at least the ignorant + over-enthusiastic part. (I'm not saying I'm cured, yet, either.) Also, with warnings all over the place, if I can't handle a little criticism, I should just go home and cry, and not come back until I'm all grown up. Boo hoo. Ok, I'm done now.
::: Again, as to the me not signing with a link, it was a P.S. There was a (hand typed, oif) link directly above. Also, I was /really/ new and /really/ ignorant. I'm still fairly new (I've still got the "how to use the tildies to sign your name" guide at the top of my talks page so I don't forget), and I'll always be ignorant, but I'm fairly decent at figuring things out once five or six people have yelled at me about the same thing. Thanks, btw. I did need that. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:12, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
::::I might recommend putting in a new-user default page that explains basic behind-the-wiki language, except for 2 things. A) It would not have helped me keep out of trouble, since I initially signed up due to poor impulse control and I /had/ to respond to... I don't even know what, anymore. And B) most (but not all) is fairly easy to pick up on the fly if you (bother to) look at how it was done by the other six people who responded before you... which is why I was typing my link out by hand at first... and some of them said "Teres Draconis" instead of "jaz" because I didn't understand the syntax ''at all''. When I say "I don't speak geek," I'm not joking. But I think I'm learning to read this dialect fairly well. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]
:::::The WTML is fairly easy to understand, much easier than HTML. There is a very helpful help section at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents/Editing_Wikipedia The Big Wiki]. Note that their rules are different from ours, you don't need to follow their style guidelines.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

== Non-Dwarves guide to stone comment==
I guess you removed my comment on alunite to avoid confusion with the value stuff? I've had places where you can't go more than 20 tiles or so without "You have struck Alunite!".--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 12:30, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
:(response) Np then as it's understandable to avoid confusion.

== [[Armor sets]] ==

You seem to be interested in changing these. How do you like what I did?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:44, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] seems not to like it so much. hmm...--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 03:48, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

== glass = wood ==

[[elf|Elves]] dislike green glass as well? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:16, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:Good point - now that you mention it, dunno. (I didn't make the original post, just expanded to explain the connection). I've got a Spring trading session coming up, and green/clear glass - I can triple check. Or, if you know the answer, of course feel free to edit the edit, np by me.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

::I have no clue on this one :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:03, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Did you use charcoal as fuel when making the glass? (charcoal = dead tree) I've found that on the few fortresses I've had with /no/ source of coke, elves got /very/ picky about what they'd buy. If you used charcoal to smelt the ores, using coke to make finished products may "correct" this problem, but it's rather hard to tell, now. Of course, that doesn't help with glass, does it? That's a single fuel product. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 09:40, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

== quotes ==

You know, if you change a quote then it's not a quote any more. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:34, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

:Also, fyi, quote page policy is that re-adding removed quotes requites a talk page discussion. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:36, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

::You're right, but considering your given reasons for that mass deletion, I didn't bother with a vote for each one, I just reduced their size and replaced. Not all of them - a couple I didn't feel should have been there to begin with, length or no.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:You didn't respond to the first issue, which is the bigger one imo. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:55, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::You can't change what someone else said just because they didnt say it the way you wanted them to. If the spelling bothers you so much, then feel free to tag it with [sic], but if you change the content at all then it's not a quote any more. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Sorry, but that is, in my personal opinion, absolutely absurd. But fine - you asked for it.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:48, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::Arbitrary quote removal is completely supported by the current quote guidelines. You can find them on [[talk:Main Page/Quote]]. These are not guidelines that I made up on the spot or forced on anyone. They have been around for a while. This is not cause for ad-hominem attacks (actually, I can't think of any situation that ''is'') [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:13, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

== Various disagreements ==

I just wanted to say that even though you and me are disagreeing quite a bit lately, I usually agree with most of your decisions. I think you're a good, rational editor. So please don't take things personally when an argument comes up. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:44, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
:Good rational editor. Yup.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 22:00, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
::And it all seems so polite. It's nice when people can disagree with courtesy and style. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 09:42, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

== Defense Guide ==

Hi, I'm a lurker, and know squat about wiki editing. However, there is something that should go into one of the new pages - but I'm not sure which. Mechanics (and others) have a nasty habit of wanting to clean, or reload traps during conflict. Forbidding traps after they are built will keep, for example, DOdok McGoblinBait from deciding to reload a stone trap in the middle of a siege. I got this info from [[User:0x517A5D]]'s Siege Checklist, which has some other defense info as well. FWIW, I think you're doing a great job with this. --[[User:Bob|Bob]] 01:29, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== <nowiki>[[link]]s vs [[links]]</nowiki> ==

You know why redirects were invented right?

So editors like me can be lazy. (Alternatively you could hunt up all the plural redirects and nuke all of them, there are plenty.)

Having said that, I made the change because I find <nowiki>[[masons]] easier on the eye in the edit window than [[mason]]s</nowiki>, but it's an "individual preference" I guess.

By the way: rhetorical questions in edit comments make you look like a smart arse, just like my first line makes me look like one. There is no "tone of voice" in an edit comment.
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

:G'morning! You're right. I was tired, and hadn't remembered you were an old hand at this. My comments were meant to be helpful, not condescending, but I can see how it could be read either way. So many editors dive in without realizing what's going on, and since it's invisible in the final product... Meh, in the end, masons, masunz - whatever works. I guess for me, it's all about the "root word stem", but as you say, that's just preference. For what it's worth, I agree with 99% of your edits that I've seen, and the other 1% are a coin toss by me. I guess this is one coin toss I kneejerked on.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 13:55, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
::No harm, no foul... you say g'morning, I say g'night! All I know is I just survived an ambush for the first time without saying f#@k this and abandoning. Pop went from 65 to 50 though... :( (my recruits v their Master bowmen) Thank you surpentine passageway and stone-fall traps! Now what do I do with a half-dozen gobs? [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 14:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

== Screenshot Tilessets ==

I'm sure you're aware of {{Rule|I}}. 
Mentioning it due to the SS's you put up on the Vein (and other) page(s). -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 00:28, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:??? - I am aware of it, and I use the vanilla DF tileset - why do you mention it?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:15, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::Ah, I see the issue, you're using the default graphical set. Hmm.. the rule is kinda ambiguous there. I just picked up on it from seeing the bearded dwarf, since I always stick to the pure ASCII, as does most of the wiki. Perhaps this means that a call for clarification should be made on Rule I? -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Exactly, the "default graphical set" - and rule I says "''Images and screenshots should use the default tilesets for clarity''" - not sure what else it is that you were expecting, nor what "clarification" there needs to be made - default is defaul, neh? The recent tiles I posted in mega projects ([[tower]]) were straight off this site - here [[Character table]]. Can you point to an example of what you were expecting? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:08, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::::The graphical set and character set use somewhat different images for most of the tiles. Certain characters like the dwarves, and dwarfbuck, have noticeable differences between the graphical and character sets. It's no big deal really, but it seems inconsistent to have some SS's with the graphical set and SS's and diagrams with the character set. (Not that it's your fault either, mind you. I agree that the rule was followed, but as I said, I think the rule might need to be changed.) -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:21, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Ah, I see - I remember that I tried using the default "tiles", but my PC balked at the very idea. It seems there are about 3 different "defaults" lying around - those two plus this wiki's ascii table - hrmmm. While standardization is good, I'm not sure how we can expect a "vanilla user" to conform to both sets. (How diff is it?) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:38, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::::::Not sure how I could quantify the differences any further than I have already. You could look for yourself at the curses and graphical files in your directory for further comparison. The differences aren't really that big, and I agree that the average editor probably wouldn't know the difference, but then, you're no average editor, are you? ;) I guess the most I'm realistically hoping for is that a handful of editors that are looking for something to do (perhaps Jaz would be a good recruit for this?) would re-capture the images that don't use whichever set is agreed upon to be the standard. I dunno, don't really have any ideas for this, outside of the idea that we need ideas :p -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:44, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== ??? ==

If you know what's going on, then I must be missing something. I don't get the point of what you did at all. How is <nowiki>[[rope]] different from [[restraint|rope]]</nowiki>? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:49, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== re: End of statement ==

See [[talk:soap]]. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]]

== Masonry ==

I see in several articles you've mentioned that a building requires the masonry labor to construct. For a few of these, I'm suspicious because of how it is with screw pumps. There it depends on the building material, just as with walls and bridges. Rock, glass, and soap building materials will require masonry. Wood will require carpentry, and metal will require metalsmithing. I have only had this come up with bridges, screw pumps, and walls, but I expect this will hold in general. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
:Now that you mention it, you're right - I make those with stone blocks exclusively, and wanted to emphasize the 2-stage construction - just spaced on other labors for other materials. I'll track down what I can.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Albedo

2009-06-19T09:40:35Z

Teres Draconis: /* glass = wood */ charcoal as fuel means trees died to make your glass...

== Aluminum in copper ==

I have definitely seen aluminum inside a copper vein. It was freakin amazing. Also found 3 magnetite flippin huge clusters, each as big as my fort, 3 lignite veins, 2 microcline (bleagh) big groups, gold and silver vein, 1 hematite vein. It was great. More iron than I know what to do with. But totally aluminum in copper. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 12:26, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Stone articles ==

The articles on the various types of [[stone]] are based entirely on data taken from the game raws. It's possible the raw data has changed since the article was written, but observation alone is not good enough when we have that kind of inside info. If you see some sort of weird anomaly (like veins of aluminum), then Toady would most likely appreciate a bug report about that. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:28, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
:not veins of aluminum. Aluminum adjacent to veins. I have seen it in hematite, and copper. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:05, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

::Could someone point me to where the discussions are on how the articles should be set up? Sorry. I just... I'm being impulsive and driven and stuff and I want to know so I can /do/ stuff, and... you know, stuff. With stuff in it. I'm clearer after sleep, I promise. (Don't believe me, I'm always ambiguous, though rarely by intent.) --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 08:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::NM. Found it. Duh... Trust me, sleep ''is'' my friend. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

== (response) ==

But ''is'' it an anomaly? I'm not sure how to read the RAW's at that level. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

::Both are IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE, so, depending upon how the raws are acted upon, there are several ways this could happen...
:::1) The layer tiles are replaced first with veins(copper), and then small clusters (aluminum). Veins sometimes leave pockets of the layer stone incased, when the vein splits and then reconnects. I've seen it a few times, but I wouldn't call it common. The small cluster that would have been aluminum if the copper weren't there covers part or all of the area within the pocket. The rest of area of the small cluster is ignored, since the aluminum raws do not mention copper. (The way platinum mentions magnetite, for example).
:::2) The layer tiles are replaced first with the small clusters (aluminum) and then the veins (copper)... the copper vein just happens to meander around the pre-existing aluminum.
:::3) It does several iterations of whatever order it does, making both options 1 and 2 possible, potentially simultaniously (though not in the same tile, obviously).
:::4) Something completely different I have no clue about. I could make some stabs at things that could have caused that result, but they would all be both difficult and clunky, both in the design and in the implimentation.
:::5) It glitched. It's a computer. It happens all the time.
::Was that ''completely'' useless, or just mostly so? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC) (Poking around at modding is helping me learn to read RAW)

==Trader==

If the Appraiser skill is the highest skill you have, isn't the profession "trader"? I know I've seen the trader profession before. Below is what I think the skill/professions are.

Appraiser -> Trader 
Building designer -> Architect 
Organizer -> Administrator 
Record keeper ->Clerk 

I ''think'' that you are correct in that the overall skill (when you have two or more skills close in skill level) is also adminstrator. --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 20:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Just read your log - I notice you build walls around the pipe. Have you considered a channel around the pit? Same effect, but you don't have to carry stone.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 21:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

:Fixed Trader - my bad. Read the Skill discussion page - that group of skills is not at all clear.

:I don't intend to go near the imps - the wall will create an AG enclosure above my dining hall/kitchen area, for AG crops, statue garden, private water and fishing area, etc etc. (More extensive answers in Kwieland's talk page) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:15, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

== fuel ==
While it is true that I moved the page to "Refined coal", the page I moved it from was "Refined Coal". The naming convention you were asking about is to only capitalize the first letter, since wiki links are case sensitive on all letters except the first. I think the original name of the article was "Refined Coal".

As for the origin of the term, it appears in the cancellation message if you assign a fuel-requiring task when you have no fuel. If this message no longer shows up, I have no qualms about retiring the term. However, if it still does then "refined coal" is a more suitable name than "fuel" since only "refined coal" appears in-game. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:I agree that the confusion needs to be cleared up, but I don't think separating [[fuel]] and [[refined coal]] into separate articles will help since they are just words for the same thing. I think that the best solution would be a short disambiguation at the top of the [[refined coal]] page. As long as all the terms redirect to that page anyone interested in any of them will end up seeing it. As for the title, we should definitely prefer an in-game term over a forum-supplied term. Everyone who uses the wiki plays the game, but not everyone uses the forum.

:The article as-is contains all the information pertaining to the naming issue, but if you think it's confusing, the page organization may be to blame. Perhaps information pertaining to names and categories could be consolidated at the top. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

::There is no such thing as "fuel coal". The terms are "refined coal" and "coal fuel". [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:::I know, I know! And I find I can't shake that term! (esp when tired). Not sure where used it this time, but it's like Pres. Bush saying "nucular arsenal". Arrrggghhhh!!!! --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:52, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

== Olivine ==

See [[Talk:Olivine]] [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

==That revealed vein comment of Zchris13==
I totally understand why you undid that, but it was sort of funny. And I can accomplish that without using a third party utility. I can create down stairs on the level above, which reveals the tile. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:57, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== armorsmith page - re quality of artifact armor ==

In my head, I thought artifact armour & weapons were better than masterwork too, but that's not what the [[Item quality]] page says:

:☼Item Name☼ Masterful ×12 ×2.0
:Unique name Artifact ×120 ×2.0

And we should assume that's accurate, neh?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:nobody knows. It is a mystery!!!! Ohhhh... I really don't know what to believe. Toady has dropped contradicting hints, people report contradicting data, and nobody really knows what is going on. I say we just put a maybe in there. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 02:00, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

== Sorting table on [[Metal]] page by color ==

The issue is that the only plaintext in the color column is "*", which is hard to sort by. If we want it to be sortable we need the plaintext of each entry to not be identical. A pretty way to pull this off isn't coming to mind, but that's the goal. Nice work on the table, by the way. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 13:22, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:Maybe the first letter of the color name, in the same color as the background. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:15, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

::Or change the tile entirely - the more I look at it, not sure what the whole "background color" achieves. But as I understand it the use of the icon (the asterisk) representing the ore is the problem. May take some rethinking.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:Every metal has a unique foreground color and a unique background color. On items like doors, you get to see both. This is actually why doors are included in the corners of the diagram on the assorted metal pages (eg: [[copper]]) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
::: <Nods> Got it. Is there a way to "pipe" the icon in, and use some numerical representation to sort? Meh, you've probably thought of that. Or piping the icon in??? Or using a subtly diff icon? Sorting by color is, admittedly, perhaps the least of our concerns with that table. Maybe remove the "sortable" part from the template for now?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:24, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
:What is it we are sorting here? --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
:: Metal page table (fixed in sub-title above)
HA! fixed. me r hte supra jeeeenius! Completely by accident, natch. Tried adding numbers in w/ the asterisks, to give the system something to sort. That worked w/ only 2 numbers, they ''all'' sorted. So I backed out, and tried same w/ small numbers for a better look. Then w/ only 1 small "A" for adamantine, no numbers - that worked too! Then, just for the helluvit, I tried making one asterisk small - and that worked too, w/ no visible difference in text. All it needed was one difference, and they all get sorted, np. woot and a half.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:32, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
:lol. Did you try it with no change at all? I bet that would have sorted, too. Why? Because the edit right before yours was a fix :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
::... buzzkill! LOL! didn't even see an edit before mine. suuuuupra jeeeeenius!--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 08:02, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== User name vs preferred name/nickname ==

Albedo, I don't know why you think that it's unacceptable for someone to use a different name to sign their posts. 
There's a built-in function for doing exactly that (once you figure out how to use it) in your preferences. 
Additionally, while this isn't Wikipedia, you still shouldn't bite the newbies. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:I guess because I'm used to going to "User:Name" to find their page, and that doesn't work - why take one username when you intend to use an entirely diff nickname? And I felt I was more muzzling than biting - over-enthusiasm is laudable, and ignorance is something that everyone has, but a bad combination together in public.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 21:59, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::Personally, I joined with my usual semi-anonymous handle, as I wasn't sure I'd stick around, or that the wiki was going to be worth working on. Later decided that I was going to try to be a significant part of the community, and set my nickname/signature to my Real first name. That's probably something similar to most people who use non-User name signatures. It's also possible that what name people would normally choose won't work for signing up. ''In the end, clicking the signature of a user will take you there, regardless of what they put in it or why they don't use their user name.'' -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Do tell. And you do this "clicking" thing with that computer mouse thing???... Stating the obvious is... well, exactly what it is. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:48, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::::lol... ok, you want blunt? Don't tell other people to do something a certain way that you prefer, simply because you don't want to use the system already in place. -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

:::No, altho' blunt serves it's purpose. However now you're simply repeating what you've already said, which again serves none. But it seems I must follow suit - if I want to go to your page but don't have your sig in front of me, I would normally type "User:Edward" in the search box and hit "go" - that doesn't work. Hence, problematic, and NO direct system is in place. Solution? Either Search, or create a redirect for you. And your personal shift in names is not what TD did - which I thought would also be obvious. Your concern is admirable - I think you are/were confused as to my exact position, which is "Why adopt a psuedonym ''the same day'' you create the User Account?".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::It annoys me too, Albedo. But I really just think we should let it lie. Can't really hurt anything, can it? Other than our brains, but whatever.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::<nods> --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::... I didn't mean to get you all riled up. And thank you, [[User:N9103|Edward]], for asking him not to bite me, but I /did/ rather earn it... at least the ignorant + over-enthusiastic part. (I'm not saying I'm cured, yet, either.) Also, with warnings all over the place, if I can't handle a little criticism, I should just go home and cry, and not come back until I'm all grown up. Boo hoo. Ok, I'm done now.
::: Again, as to the me not signing with a link, it was a P.S. There was a (hand typed, oif) link directly above. Also, I was /really/ new and /really/ ignorant. I'm still fairly new (I've still got the "how to use the tildies to sign your name" guide at the top of my talks page so I don't forget), and I'll always be ignorant, but I'm fairly decent at figuring things out once five or six people have yelled at me about the same thing. Thanks, btw. I did need that. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:12, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
::::I might recommend putting in a new-user default page that explains basic behind-the-wiki language, except for 2 things. A) It would not have helped me keep out of trouble, since I initially signed up due to poor impulse control and I /had/ to respond to... I don't even know what, anymore. And B) most (but not all) is fairly easy to pick up on the fly if you (bother to) look at how it was done by the other six people who responded before you... which is why I was typing my link out by hand at first... and some of them said "Teres Draconis" instead of "jaz" because I didn't understand the syntax ''at all''. When I say "I don't speak geek," I'm not joking. But I think I'm learning to read this dialect fairly well. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]
:::::The WTML is fairly easy to understand, much easier than HTML. There is a very helpful help section at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents/Editing_Wikipedia The Big Wiki]. Note that their rules are different from ours, you don't need to follow their style guidelines.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

== Non-Dwarves guide to stone comment==
I guess you removed my comment on alunite to avoid confusion with the value stuff? I've had places where you can't go more than 20 tiles or so without "You have struck Alunite!".--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 12:30, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
:(response) Np then as it's understandable to avoid confusion.

== [[Armor sets]] ==

You seem to be interested in changing these. How do you like what I did?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:44, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] seems not to like it so much. hmm...--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 03:48, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

== glass = wood ==

[[elf|Elves]] dislike green glass as well? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:16, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

:Good point - now that you mention it, dunno. (I didn't make the original post, just expanded to explain the connection). I've got a Spring trading session coming up, and green/clear glass - I can triple check. Or, if you know the answer, of course feel free to edit the edit, np by me.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

::I have no clue on this one :P [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 06:03, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Did you use charcoal as fuel when making the glass? (charcoal = dead tree) I've found that on the few fortresses I've had with /no/ source of coke, elves got /very/ picky about what they'd buy. If you used charcoal to smelt the ores, using coke to make finished products may "correct" this problem, but it's rather hard to tell, now. Of course, that doesn't help with glass, does it? That's a single fuel product. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 09:40, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

== quotes ==

You know, if you change a quote then it's not a quote any more. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:34, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

:Also, fyi, quote page policy is that re-adding removed quotes requites a talk page discussion. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:36, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

::You're right, but considering your given reasons for that mass deletion, I didn't bother with a vote for each one, I just reduced their size and replaced. Not all of them - a couple I didn't feel should have been there to begin with, length or no.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:02, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:You didn't respond to the first issue, which is the bigger one imo. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 05:55, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::You can't change what someone else said just because they didnt say it the way you wanted them to. If the spelling bothers you so much, then feel free to tag it with [sic], but if you change the content at all then it's not a quote any more. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Sorry, but that is, in my personal opinion, absolutely absurd. But fine - you asked for it.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:48, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

::Arbitrary quote removal is completely supported by the current quote guidelines. You can find them on [[talk:Main Page/Quote]]. These are not guidelines that I made up on the spot or forced on anyone. They have been around for a while. This is not cause for ad-hominem attacks (actually, I can't think of any situation that ''is'') [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:13, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

== Various disagreements ==

I just wanted to say that even though you and me are disagreeing quite a bit lately, I usually agree with most of your decisions. I think you're a good, rational editor. So please don't take things personally when an argument comes up. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 16:44, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
:Good rational editor. Yup.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 22:00, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

== Defense Guide ==

Hi, I'm a lurker, and know squat about wiki editing. However, there is something that should go into one of the new pages - but I'm not sure which. Mechanics (and others) have a nasty habit of wanting to clean, or reload traps during conflict. Forbidding traps after they are built will keep, for example, DOdok McGoblinBait from deciding to reload a stone trap in the middle of a siege. I got this info from [[User:0x517A5D]]'s Siege Checklist, which has some other defense info as well. FWIW, I think you're doing a great job with this. --[[User:Bob|Bob]] 01:29, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== <nowiki>[[link]]s vs [[links]]</nowiki> ==

You know why redirects were invented right?

So editors like me can be lazy. (Alternatively you could hunt up all the plural redirects and nuke all of them, there are plenty.)

Having said that, I made the change because I find <nowiki>[[masons]] easier on the eye in the edit window than [[mason]]s</nowiki>, but it's an "individual preference" I guess.

By the way: rhetorical questions in edit comments make you look like a smart arse, just like my first line makes me look like one. There is no "tone of voice" in an edit comment.
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

:G'morning! You're right. I was tired, and hadn't remembered you were an old hand at this. My comments were meant to be helpful, not condescending, but I can see how it could be read either way. So many editors dive in without realizing what's going on, and since it's invisible in the final product... Meh, in the end, masons, masunz - whatever works. I guess for me, it's all about the "root word stem", but as you say, that's just preference. For what it's worth, I agree with 99% of your edits that I've seen, and the other 1% are a coin toss by me. I guess this is one coin toss I kneejerked on.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 13:55, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
::No harm, no foul... you say g'morning, I say g'night! All I know is I just survived an ambush for the first time without saying f#@k this and abandoning. Pop went from 65 to 50 though... :( (my recruits v their Master bowmen) Thank you surpentine passageway and stone-fall traps! Now what do I do with a half-dozen gobs? [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 14:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

== Screenshot Tilessets ==

I'm sure you're aware of {{Rule|I}}. 
Mentioning it due to the SS's you put up on the Vein (and other) page(s). -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 00:28, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:??? - I am aware of it, and I use the vanilla DF tileset - why do you mention it?--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:15, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::Ah, I see the issue, you're using the default graphical set. Hmm.. the rule is kinda ambiguous there. I just picked up on it from seeing the bearded dwarf, since I always stick to the pure ASCII, as does most of the wiki. Perhaps this means that a call for clarification should be made on Rule I? -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Exactly, the "default graphical set" - and rule I says "''Images and screenshots should use the default tilesets for clarity''" - not sure what else it is that you were expecting, nor what "clarification" there needs to be made - default is defaul, neh? The recent tiles I posted in mega projects ([[tower]]) were straight off this site - here [[Character table]]. Can you point to an example of what you were expecting? --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:08, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::::The graphical set and character set use somewhat different images for most of the tiles. Certain characters like the dwarves, and dwarfbuck, have noticeable differences between the graphical and character sets. It's no big deal really, but it seems inconsistent to have some SS's with the graphical set and SS's and diagrams with the character set. (Not that it's your fault either, mind you. I agree that the rule was followed, but as I said, I think the rule might need to be changed.) -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:21, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Ah, I see - I remember that I tried using the default "tiles", but my PC balked at the very idea. It seems there are about 3 different "defaults" lying around - those two plus this wiki's ascii table - hrmmm. While standardization is good, I'm not sure how we can expect a "vanilla user" to conform to both sets. (How diff is it?) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:38, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

::::::Not sure how I could quantify the differences any further than I have already. You could look for yourself at the curses and graphical files in your directory for further comparison. The differences aren't really that big, and I agree that the average editor probably wouldn't know the difference, but then, you're no average editor, are you? ;) I guess the most I'm realistically hoping for is that a handful of editors that are looking for something to do (perhaps Jaz would be a good recruit for this?) would re-capture the images that don't use whichever set is agreed upon to be the standard. I dunno, don't really have any ideas for this, outside of the idea that we need ideas :p -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:44, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== ??? ==

If you know what's going on, then I must be missing something. I don't get the point of what you did at all. How is <nowiki>[[rope]] different from [[restraint|rope]]</nowiki>? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:49, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== re: End of statement ==

See [[talk:soap]]. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]]

== Masonry ==

I see in several articles you've mentioned that a building requires the masonry labor to construct. For a few of these, I'm suspicious because of how it is with screw pumps. There it depends on the building material, just as with walls and bridges. Rock, glass, and soap building materials will require masonry. Wood will require carpentry, and metal will require metalsmithing. I have only had this come up with bridges, screw pumps, and walls, but I expect this will hold in general. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
:Now that you mention it, you're right - I make those with stone blocks exclusively, and wanted to emphasize the 2-stage construction - just spaced on other labors for other materials. I'll track down what I can.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 05:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-06-19T09:00:32Z

Teres Draconis: I thought it was going to be noise reduction, but I've added in almost as much as I took out, I think.

== My personal note taking place ==

A lot of the following is just for my own personal note taking stuff. Feel free to add or comment or whatever. I don't mind.
Some of these questions (are) answered in the forums. I'll go check at some point, until then, this is where I'm storing my questions so I don't forget what it was I wanted to ask. ... the personality tags aught to have one for forgetfulness... which would related directly to how long they continue to think about things that have happened. One who was "extremely forgetful" might not list "slept in the rain" for as long as someone who had a "clear recollection of things long past".

I play three versions of the game, randomly... one, the pure, out of the box, only thing messed with are (subtle changes in) the init files. Another with minor modifications to things like, oh... domestic cats are spayed when captured (affected by the child tags being replaced with [NO_GENDER])... we'll just pretend that they continue to breed like crazy out in the wilds.

---
For my modding purposes (uh, I've turned the smelter into a store to "buy" stuff from) , if anyone knows the TYPE:SUBTYPE:MATERIAL:MATGLOSS tags for any of the following, please please pretty please share them.

ivory, pearl, coral (I don't care if the creatures still don't drop them. I can "buy" it from my smelter, once I figure out the values for them)

containers with stuff in them. (for example, the cage the cow is in, the bag the sand is in, etc.) I figure the contents have to be listed seperately, but how do you get a barrel full of booze, and not booze in one hand and barrel in the other?...

"plant cheeses"... like, say, tofu. ... how do I get the plants to let me make cheese from the extract? Twice I've tried, twice I've failed. I can keep experimenting, but... eh. Anyone else have plants that make "cheese"?

-
For the game designers and those who speak to them (go ahead, claim credit, I'm ok with that)... things I'd like to see in future versions...

a way to deal with the workshops themselves. For instance, when I tell the manager I want to make 300 cheeses, I don't want the "make cheese" task to fill up the farmer's workshop I've dedicated to my spinner (making plant thread). I can dedicate /who/ works there. I'd like to dedicate the kinds of tasks that can be performed there, too.

:I know I can make a task repeatable... but if I want to save out 100 of my 400 barrels of milk for direct cooking, and don't want to have to forbid them, unforbid them, etc... besides, this was an example... could just as easily be "make stone toys" at the bone carver's shop.

another workshop mod i'd like to see: I want to be able to create new kinds of workshops, with a file (like the reaction_standard.txt) for what can be made in it and what materials each making takes... and maybe this file (or each entry?) should tell what kind of XP it gives. With this, I could do for myself alot of what I keep asking Toady to do for me. I mean... I don't want to just eat for a day, after all. That also solves the problems listed above. I can have a workshop just for making barrels, if that's what I really want.

I'd like to see a tag to put on things like sheep that allows for sheering. I want to make wool cloth without having to slaughter my sheep for them. ... and angoras, too. Poor bunnies. Not that I get cloth now... I get leather still, but...

:Probably would have the same problem as milking currently does. Perhaps when they get around to fixing that, they may put this one in as well... if someone makes them think of it.

I'd like to be able to make dyes from animal products. For instance, there are snails that produce a lovely purple color when crushed. No, I'm not with PETA, how did you guess?

I'd like to be able to dye worked cloth. The dress was made with undyed cloth? Should be easy to fix. I'd also like to be able to redye dyed cloth. In real life it would simply add color but I'd be ok with a "paint over" kind of effect.

Maybe mix dyes to make new colors? ... The only way I can think of right now to mod that in is to have a plant for each of them and then smelt two dyes into something else, red and blue make purple like iron and pig iron make steel.

I think bones (raw hides, skulls, shells) should be binable. I mean, really. I have 10 fishbones a cat's skull and a turtle shell that take up the same floorspace as 12 beds?!? Put them in a bin. On raw hides: it rots. Ok, two choices. One: don't let me bin this. I'll still be happy if I can bin the friggin' bones, shells, skulls. Or, two: The rot spreads to everything it touches, and, since it's "in" something, it produces miasma. Even if the bin is outside. I don't think that "rat remains" and "dog chunks" and such should be binable. I mean, ew. Also, those don't go into the workshop stockpiles for processing. At least, not in /my/ fortresses. ... again, ew.

... One or two last thoughts before I actually post this...

Is there a way to make a mixed group of creatures that spawn together? I mean, take your average herd in Africa. You're going to have zebras and elephants and girraffs and several other things besides, often all walking together. Sure, often you find a herd of just elephants, but often you'll find one or two in a mix of other things as well. And flocks of birds who travel with them, too.

I'm considering adding a new medium-heavy mod that accounts for things like mixed herds, beehives (worker bees, queen bee, guard bees), maybe beemen... though antmen could use this, too. Antmen could maybe have pet Giant Aphids (who, storywise they milk but who aren't tamable to humanoids)...

And, thirdly (I know I said one or two)... feralization. I can keep my tame but unclaimed pets mostly in one area by defining it as a meeting zone... but if I don't... and if they wander off (even if they don't)... I think that if they don't see one of their caretakers for, oh, two seasons (maybe less... maybe a tag that says how quickly?)... they should feralize. Easy way is just to make them go back to being the wild version of that creature. If it's in the wrong biome... uh, oops? Might die sooner? Might get eaten by a grue, I mean, uh... Another way is to make a whole other classification (wild, tame, feral)... maybe it adjusts how aggressive it is. Maybe not. Maybe it adjusts how easily it goes back to being tame. Would this tag be passed on to it's young? Or would the young just be "wild" to start with? If you were near another outpost, city or whatever, would you have their feral creatures start wandering into your area on occasion? Just what you need, the neighbor's feral dragon has decided your keep is it's new home!

Ok, Done. I'll edit and such later, and reduce the noise as I get answers. Or, you know, you can if you like. Whatever.

-jaz

: I would really really like to see a little option pop up. When everything pauses and recenters because the miners struck something new on a level, and it says ... whatever it says... I'd like there to be a (d)ig, (s)trip, (f)orbid option.
::(d)ig would just dig the squares you've already designated.
::(s)trip would designate for mining squares of that type, on that level, /as they are discovered/, even if they aren't currently designated. If it's done "as discovered", you won't neccissarily know how much you're getting until it's done, thus maintaining the mystery. You should still be able to undesignate squares that have been designated automatically.
::(f)orbid would un-designate squares of that type, on that level, as they are discovered.
:That way I don't have my newbie miner failing the attempt to mine out the diamonds. I can just leave them there for later. And if I have 4 levels of mining going on, I can't watch every level all the time to see if a new deposite of something already mentioned shows up, or whatever... I can just say "no, not that" as it's discovered, and all the miners know to leave it, and all other instances of it, alone.

== Noise Reduction ==
Things that got answered... They will get deleted out all together at some point as I don't want this talks page to be 40 bajillion pages long.

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] suggested I look on/post to the forums for my ideas and wants, game wise... apparently quite a few of them were already mentioned. I've removed some from my list. Not that I think they're neccsissarly upcoming, but well, noise reduction. I've posted some already, and some I don't even know how to search for the thread. Then again, worst is worst, someone calls me an idiot and points to the 47 other threads that I'm repeating. I'll only feel rejected and foolish. What's so wrong with that? ... "Teres Draconis ... is concerned about rejection and ridicule." ... Oh, right. Cry me a river. Do it anyways, Jaz.
... doing, doing, done. --[[User:Teres Draconis|-- jaz]] 00:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:The fora aren't for the feint-hearted. I don't think I've actually posted. Isn't it increadible that a single developer has created such a massive ascii game with such a huge community... and he gives it away free because "it's still a beta"? Aparently it's been worth his while thought! [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 10:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

:: Oh, yes! All hail the Toady One! - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

:You're a noise one, aren't you. It's ok, just lurk around the forum for a while. Use search, which is a little odd, until you realize that there are two different search boxes.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:09, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::I am definately a noisy one. And lurking is what I do for /before/ I sign up for a username. I'm rather like a humming bird. Most people think they're dainty little things, quietly going from one flower to the next, completely silent except for the beat of their wings... until two males get in a fight over territory, and then everyone is saying "What's making all that racket?!?", "Oh, my god! My ears are bleeding!" and "Can't a person suffer a hang-over in peace around here?!". - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

Sadly, the boozerfall did not work. Nor the blooderfall. It would have been glorious, though. The plains flooded with Dwarven Ale. The gentle nurse lowering her bucket into the giant lake of booze to tote back to the wounded soldiers. The Generator [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1292-ubermistgenerator] making sweet smelling (and potentially intoxicating) mists... Sadly, this method does not work. On 16:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC), [[User:Corona688|Corona688]] said that it's because ... "These things all start as "stacks", not flows, so they don't. I've heard mutterings that certain kinds of cave ins can turn fluid stacks into fluid flows but that's it. Whether it works or not, caving in something on top of a smelter containing a million water would be hilarious... " Perhaps if I fill a room with 10000 barrels of booze, and then go mod the melting tempurature of the barrels to really low? Hmmmm... ok! Gonna go try that next!... And/or drop a bunch of rock on it. Whatever. =) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 00:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Someone (I forget who, and I did too many cuts and pastes in a row to be able to figure it out) said "See, there's something that is pure "addition", not rewriting - milkable cows. Make a new article. Be terse and factual, "how it's done". Be objective, no "I". Link from [[cow]]s and [[milk]] - that's more the sort of thing that the wiki needs. " Unfortunately, my milkable cows are a mod, and kinda a cobbled one at that. You can't buy them from the embark screen (though I had traders bring them on the first visit... of course, that doesn't help much, since it can't be /tame/ and milked. Argh! Who came up with this mess?!? TOADY!!!), they teleport, and my cats keep killing the wild ones. I'm working on it, ok? But I can milk them. And they're called cows. Once you know that, it should be easy to figure out what I did. Not a hard mod at all. -- [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

== Chalk & whinging ==

[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC), [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC), [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC) are (or were, anyways) all participating in the discussion about the rock pages over at [[Talk:Main Page]]. I haven't been around lately, so I don't know what they've said, and frankly I don't have time to read through it now. I'm mostly reducing noise. They were all quite nice in telling me that I did it wrong and how I could have done it better. I am grateful, considering they could have flamed me royally.

I am done talking about talking about it. I'm mostly done talking about it directly. Time for me to play the game or get off the computer. Besides. I have milkable cows now. My life is complete. =) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

== Naming Conventions ==

Some random stuff (you probably don't care about) reguarding my nick and where it comes from...

:"Teres" is latin for "rounded, polished, smooth, fine, elegant" (things I aspire to be... and something a dragon would love, since it's both gem related and indicates a certain level of grandois... ishness... oif. Yep, I'm not there, yet.)

: Teres Draconis was my first dragon type character. I have used her name for every other genre in which I played a dragon, because the character herself was familiar to me, leaving only the variances of this game vs that one to learn. Much easier (for me) to learn the rules that way. (I use this technique alot. "Tessi" is almost always the name of a kinder/half-elf/small-cute-humanoid-thief character the first time I play a game, "Wudi" for small cute felines, etc.)

So, how did you come up with /your/ name?

P.S. I love etymology, and the related field of where names come from (though I never remember what that's called)... and since online you get to choose your own name, it makes it much more personal... and could potentially tell a lot about who you are. If nothing else, it might just say you're fairly conventional (read:uncreative *teases*) in your naming coventions. (There's a place for everything, even convention. But if the name you get to choose for yourself doesn't say /anything/ about you... ) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] (and even the fact that I use "jaz" says something about me)

:Hmm.. mines something unusual I'd say. (N9103) It's both a mistake and a memory. One of the first game-related things I ever bought for myself (around 1996) was a professionally done editor for Red Alert(1) called Control Center. My Westwood online account for the game followed some time after that, when I had gotten bored with trying new modifications to the game settings. This was probably my first ever handle, though I had lurked on many a forum well enough to know that anonymity is preferable to identity, so rather than trying to find a way to anonymize my name, I simply went with the last set of registration characters for the Control Center program.... Here's the mistake part: About 5 years later, I was breaking down my game boxes and jewelcases into a binder, condensing the 100 or so games I had by that point into a fraction of the size, (took up an entire bookshelf at the time!); And turns out, that the last 5 of my registration code wasn't N9103, it was N9031. Had a bit of a laugh at myself for my mistake, but I've stuck with it ever since, for it's both anonymous and identifying. Seen very few use such an odd and seemingly random name, but trying to search for it will almost always turn up hundreds of other things, from computer chips and resistors, to a boat prop. (last time I bothered checking anyways.. about 3 years ago.) For this Wiki though, I've replaced the username with my own, as this is something I'm happy to be a part of. (I've got another username that's all over the place as well, but I'll leave that for another time.) -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

:Well, it was the first name of one of my very, ''very'' first RP characters from "back in the day" (can you say "Traveler"?) Dr. Albedo Lightrock, combat librarian. And since it has other meanings - percentage of light reflected, etc etc - it seems to work. Nothing beyond that - not the old anthopomorphic comic (tho' that had a quality to it) nor the newer one by the same name. Nothing more than that.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 12:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::OMG! [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveller_(role-playing_game) Traveler!] I haven't played that in ... forever! One of the (but not /the/) first Teres incarnations was a [http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Droyne Droyne.] It was odd having em not be a "her" until the humans on the ship insisted ey pick a gender with which to identify. Good times! Thank you! - 17:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey Jaz, do you know you can use [[Special:Preferences]] to change your signature to Jaz instead of your login name? That way you get auto signature that says what you want it to say.
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:55, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
: Actually, I did know, and that's how I do it now. It's even why this thread got started. But thanks for sharing! (It took me a while to figure out, so that was nice of you to tell me!) -[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

== My user [[User:Teres Draconis|page]] ==

[[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] was nice enough to show me how to put my personal description in the tags that make it look like it's in-game, "like the way I've done this." He reminds me that there must be an </end definition> for each <defintion> (but in the reverse order). Sadly, I did actually need this information, and foresee needing it again, which is why I'm leaving it up.

As for editing my user page... feel free! If I don't like the changes, I'll just go and revert it. ... Though I think, perhaps, my {{K|u}} -> Teres Draconis -> {{K|v}} -> {{K|Enter}} section is set up the way I want it to be, and should perhaps only be edited for updates to the "recently"s and the "lately"s. If you don't see me for a while, feel free to edit it to me being severely wounded or ill, though. Sadly, it can't be edited to "is dead" and still fit the in game theme. I have /tried/ to look at the unit info for a dead dwarf, but it won't let me. Apparently since I can't perk them up about being dead, I don't need to see what would make them happier. Though it would be interesting if dwarves who died unhappy were likely to rise as zombies or ghosts or what not. (I now have this sims 2 mental overlay of my fortress, with ghosty dwarves wandering around and freaking everyone else out... whee!) " 'Bob' Gearskitten likes lemonite, oak, tube agate, tables, dogs for their loyalty and ghosts for their ability to terrify. " ... ... Ok, modding in ghosts, now. I'll go see if someone else has already done one, and maybe research zombies... and if I have to make a new beasty, I'll post it on the user page.

See how easily I get side tracked? Ok, task time.

== Have a cookie ==

Thank you all for reading/typing/chatting/editing. You've been so good to me. Have a cookie.

:[ITEM_FOOD:ITEM_FOOD_COOKIE]
:[NAME:cookie]
:[LEVEL:4]

This is a stack of 23 finely-prepared dwarven sugar cookie. The ingredients are superiorly minced dwarven wheat flour, finely minced mog juice, masterfully minced elk tallow and exceptionally minced dwarven sugar.

... And maybe a mug of cow's milk (or better, tuber beer!) to ... wash it down? 'Cause somehow I think mog juice and elk tallow don't neccissarily make for good cookie ingredients. But what do I know? I'm just a human, and not a dwarf after all. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:56, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

== the sig ==
(heavily edited for noise reduction. I'm going to keep this info for at least a while longer because it's still useful to me. Moved because sigs go at the end.)

*3 tildes (<nowiki>~~~</nowiki>) = [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]]
*4 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) = [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
*5 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki>) = 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

That's OK, you reminded me to create a slightly different sig. hint: raw code box. [[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 03:50, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-06-19T00:29:28Z

Teres Draconis: some noise reduction, some re-arranging, one new wish that may reduce out some of the other noise later since it's a larger fix to several smaller problems.

== My personal note taking place ==

A lot of the following is just for my own personal note taking stuff. Feel free to add or comment or whatever. I don't mind.
Some of these questions (are) answered in the forums. I'll go check at some point, until then, this is where I'm storing my questions so I don't forget what it was I wanted to ask. ... the personality tags aught to have one for forgetfulness... which would related directly to how long they continue to think about things that have happened. One who was "extremely forgetful" might not list "slept in the rain" for as long as someone who had a "clear recollection of things long past".

I play three versions of the game, randomly... one, the pure, out of the box, only thing messed with are (subtle changes in) the init files. Another with minor modifications to things like, oh... domestic cats are spayed when captured (affected by the child tags being replaced with [NO_GENDER])... we'll just pretend that they continue to breed like crazy out in the wilds.

---
For my modding purposes (uh, I've turned the smelter into a store to "buy" stuff from) , if anyone knows the TYPE:SUBTYPE:MATERIAL:MATGLOSS tags for any of the following, please please pretty please share them.

ivory, pearl, coral (I don't care if the creatures still don't drop them. I can "buy" it from my smelter, once I figure out the values for them)

containers with stuff in them. (for example, the cage the cow is in, the bag the sand is in, etc.) I figure the contents have to be listed seperately, but how do you get a barrel full of booze, and not booze in one hand and barrel in the other?...

"plant cheeses"... like, say, tofu. ... how do I get the plants to let me make cheese from the extract? Twice I've tried, twice I've failed. I can keep experimenting, but... eh. Anyone else have plants that make "cheese"?

-
For the game designers and those who speak to them (go ahead, claim credit, I'm ok with that)... things I'd like to see in future versions...

a way to deal with the workshops themselves. For instance, when I tell the manager I want to make 300 cheeses, I don't want the "make cheese" task to fill up the farmer's workshop I've dedicated to my spinner (making plant thread). I can dedicate /who/ works there. I'd like to dedicate the kinds of tasks that can be performed there, too.

:I know I can make a task repeatable... but if I want to save out 100 of my 400 barrels of milk for direct cooking, and don't want to have to forbid them, unforbid them, etc... besides, this was an example... could just as easily be "make stone toys" at the bone carver's shop.

another workshop mod i'd like to see: I want to be able to create new kinds of workshops, with a file (like the reaction_standard.txt) for what can be made in it and what materials each making takes... and maybe this file (or each entry?) should tell what kind of XP it gives. With this, I could do for myself alot of what I keep asking Toady to do for me. I mean... I don't want to just eat for a day, after all. That also solves the problems listed above. I can have a workshop just for making barrels, if that's what I really want.

I'd like to see a tag to put on things like sheep that allows for sheering. I want to make wool cloth without having to slaughter my sheep for them. ... and angoras, too. Poor bunnies. Not that I get cloth now... I get leather still, but...

:Probably would have the same problem as milking currently does. Perhaps when they get around to fixing that, they may put this one in as well... if someone makes them think of it.

I'd like to be able to make dyes from animal products. For instance, there are snails that produce a lovely purple color when crushed. No, I'm not with PETA, how did you guess?

I'd like to be able to dye worked cloth. The dress was made with undyed cloth? Should be easy to fix. I'd also like to be able to redye dyed cloth. In real life it would simply add color but I'd be ok with a "paint over" kind of effect.

Maybe mix dyes to make new colors? ... The only way I can think of right now to mod that in is to have a plant for each of them and then smelt two dyes into something else, red and blue make purple like iron and pig iron make steel.

I think bones (raw hides, skulls, shells) should be binable. I mean, really. I have 10 fishbones a cat's skull and a turtle shell that take up the same floorspace as 12 beds?!? Put them in a bin. On raw hides: it rots. Ok, two choices. One: don't let me bin this. I'll still be happy if I can bin the friggin' bones, shells, skulls. Or, two: The rot spreads to everything it touches, and, since it's "in" something, it produces miasma. Even if the bin is outside. I don't think that "rat remains" and "dog chunks" and such should be binable. I mean, ew. Also, those don't go into the workshop stockpiles for processing. At least, not in /my/ fortresses. ... again, ew.

... One or two last thoughts before I actually post this...

Is there a way to make a mixed group of creatures that spawn together? I mean, take your average herd in Africa. You're going to have zebras and elephants and girraffs and several other things besides, often all walking together. Sure, often you find a herd of just elephants, but often you'll find one or two in a mix of other things as well. And flocks of birds who travel with them, too.

I'm considering adding a new medium-heavy mod that accounts for things like mixed herds, beehives (worker bees, queen bee, guard bees), maybe beemen... though antmen could use this, too. Antmen could maybe have pet Giant Aphids (who, storywise they milk but who aren't tamable to humanoids)...

And, thirdly (I know I said one or two)... feralization. I can keep my tame but unclaimed pets mostly in one area by defining it as a meeting zone... but if I don't... and if they wander off (even if they don't)... I think that if they don't see one of their caretakers for, oh, two seasons (maybe less... maybe a tag that says how quickly?)... they should feralize. Easy way is just to make them go back to being the wild version of that creature. If it's in the wrong biome... uh, oops? Might die sooner? Might get eaten by a grue, I mean, uh... Another way is to make a whole other classification (wild, tame, feral)... maybe it adjusts how aggressive it is. Maybe not. Maybe it adjusts how easily it goes back to being tame. Would this tag be passed on to it's young? Or would the young just be "wild" to start with? If you were near another outpost, city or whatever, would you have their feral creatures start wandering into your area on occasion? Just what you need, the neighbor's feral dragon has decided your keep is it's new home!

Ok, Done. I'll edit and such later, and reduce the noise as I get answers. Or, you know, you can if you like. Whatever.

-jaz

: I would really really like to see a little option pop up. When everything pauses and recenters because the miners struck something new on a level, and it says ... whatever it says... I'd like there to be a (d)ig, (s)trip, (f)orbid option.
::(d)ig would just dig the squares you've already designated.
::(s)trip would designate for mining squares of that type, on that level, /as they are discovered/, even if they aren't currently designated. If it's done "as discovered", you won't neccissarily know how much you're getting until it's done, thus maintaining the mystery. You should still be able to undesignate squares that have been designated automatically.
::(f)orbid would un-designate squares of that type, on that level, as they are discovered.
:That way I don't have my newbie miner failing the attempt to mine out the diamonds. I can just leave them there for later. And if I have 4 levels of mining going on, I can't watch every level all the time to see if a new deposite of something already mentioned shows up, or whatever... I can just say "no, not that" as it's discovered, and all the miners know to leave it, and all other instances of it, alone.

== Noise Reduction ==
Things that got answered... They will get deleted out all together at some point as I don't want this talks page to be 40 bajillion pages long.

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] suggested I look on/post to the forums for my ideas and wants, game wise... apparently quite a few of them were already mentioned. I've removed some from my list. Not that I think they're neccsissarly upcoming, but well, noise reduction. I've posted some already, and some I don't even know how to search for the thread. Then again, worst is worst, someone calls me an idiot and points to the 47 other threads that I'm repeating. I'll only feel rejected and foolish. What's so wrong with that? ... "Teres Draconis ... is concerned about rejection and ridicule." ... Oh, right. Cry me a river. Do it anyways, Jaz.
... doing, doing, done. --[[User:Teres Draconis|-- jaz]] 00:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:You're a noise one, aren't you. It's ok, just lurk around the forum for a while. Use search, which is a little odd, until you realize that there are two different search boxes.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:09, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::I am definately a noisy one. And lurking is what I do for /before/ I sign up for a username. I'm rather like a humming bird. Most people think they're dainty little things, quietly going from one flower to the next, completely silent except for the beat of their wings... until two males get in a fight over territory, and then everyone is saying "What's making all that racket?!?", "Oh, my god! My ears are bleeding!" and "Can't a person suffer a hang-over in peace around here?!". - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

Sadly, the boozerfall did not work. Nor the blooderfall. It would have been glorious, though. The plains flooded with Dwarven Ale. The gentle nurse lowering her bucket into the giant lake of booze to tote back to the wounded soldiers. The Generator [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1292-ubermistgenerator] making sweet smelling (and potentially intoxicating) mists... Sadly, this method does not work. On 16:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC), [[User:Corona688|Corona688]] said that it's because ... "These things all start as "stacks", not flows, so they don't. I've heard mutterings that certain kinds of cave ins can turn fluid stacks into fluid flows but that's it. Whether it works or not, caving in something on top of a smelter containing a million water would be hilarious... " Perhaps if I fill a room with 10000 barrels of booze, and then go mod the melting tempurature of the barrels to really low? Hmmmm... ok! Gonna go try that next!... And/or drop a bunch of rock on it. Whatever. =) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 00:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Someone (I forget who, and I did too many cuts and pastes in a row to be able to figure it out) said "See, there's something that is pure "addition", not rewriting - milkable cows. Make a new article. Be terse and factual, "how it's done". Be objective, no "I". Link from [[cow]]s and [[milk]] - that's more the sort of thing that the wiki needs. " Unfortunately, my milkable cows are a mod, and kinda a cobbled one at that. You can't buy them from the embark screen (though I had traders bring them on the first visit... of course, that doesn't help much, since it can't be /tame/ and milked. Argh! Who came up with this mess?!? TOADY!!!), they teleport, and my cats keep killing the wild ones. I'm working on it, ok? But I can milk them. And they're called cows. Once you know that, it should be easy to figure out what I did. Not a hard mod at all. -- [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

== Chalk & whinging ==

[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC), [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC), [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC) are (or were, anyways) all participating in the discussion about the rock pages over at [[Talk:Main Page]]. I haven't been around lately, so I don't know what they've said, and frankly I don't have time to read through it now. I'm mostly reducing noise. They were all quite nice in telling me that I did it wrong and how I could have done it better. I am grateful, considering they could have flamed me royally.

I am done talking about talking about it. I'm mostly done talking about it directly. Time for me to play the game or get off the computer. Besides. I have milkable cows now. My life is complete. =) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

== Naming Conventions ==

(PS - And, I gotta ask - why "jaz" when you just signed up as a User with TD? Why not just sign up with jaz to begin with?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

: Uh, 'cause it's my name? And, as far as the web is concerned, I am Teres Draconis. ... last week, <name redacted> did a search for me, 'cause she's a dope and couldn't remember some minor detail about something completely irrelevant to this conversation. She came up with some orchid sites competely unrelated to how I got my name, and almost everything else was in some way related to me. I use it because it helps people find me, to know that it's me and not some /other/ Jazlyn. ('cause, you know, it's a /really/ common name. *snerk*) Two years ago, /everything/ that came up in a google search for Teres Draconis would have been about orchids or me. And I'm no delicate flower. Sadly.

Some random stuff (you probably don't care about) reguarding my nick and where it comes from...

:"Teres" is latin for "rounded, polished, smooth, fine, elegant" (things I aspire to be... and something a dragon would love, since it's both gem related and indicates a certain level of grandois... ishness... oif. Yep, I'm not there, yet.)

: Teres Draconis was my first dragon type character. I have used her name for every other genre in which I played a dragon, because the character herself was familiar to me, leaving only the variances of this game vs that one to learn. Much easier (for me) to learn the rules that way. (I use this technique alot. "Tessi" is almost always the name of a kinder/half-elf/small-cute-humanoid-thief character the first time I play a game, "Wudi" for small cute felines, etc.) ((Wudi=extreme cuteness, usually only found in kittens, puppies and those babies you love. Wudi overdose is often diagnosed by people saying such absurd things as "You're a kitty! Yes you are!" to some poor, patiently forbearing feline awaiting rescue or escape, or some other such context-applicable drivel.))

::Yeah, that makes me want to puke. The cute overload. When people do that... It's just, augh. Why. Not that I don't, just not when I'm busy doing things. You know, the fey moods? Yeah. I do that. Not quite, but yeah. Lots of fun. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:39, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:I use Teres Draconis because it makes it easier to remember user names if I only have one that I use everywhere I go.... I actually have more than that, because some places (like, oh, my work, school, bank, horticulture society) require that usernames follow their naming conventions. Makes it easier for whoever to find me in the database if they don't have to remember that I go by this funny name, and joe smith goes by that one.... everyone goes by something in their real names, or by some serial code, or whatever. I tend to forget those more, even when I use them twice a day, three days a week for 9 weeks at a time.

So, how did you come up with /your/ name? (open to all, not just [[User:Albedo|Albedo]])

::P.S. I love etymology, and the related field of where names come from (though I never remember what that's called)... and since online you get to choose your own name, it makes it much more personal... and could potentially tell a lot about who you are. If nothing else, it might just say you're fairly conventional (read:uncreative *teases*) in your naming coventions. (There's a place for everything, even convention. But if the name you get to choose for yourself doesn't say /anything/ about you... ) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] (and even the fact that I use /that/ nickname says something about me)

:::Hmm.. mines something unusual I'd say. (N9103) It's both a mistake and a memory. One of the first game-related things I ever bought for myself (around 1996) was a professionally done editor for Red Alert(1) called Control Center. My Westwood online account for the game followed some time after that, when I had gotten bored with trying new modifications to the game settings. This was probably my first ever handle, though I had lurked on many a forum well enough to know that anonymity is preferable to identity, so rather than trying to find a way to anonymize my name, I simply went with the last set of registration characters for the Control Center program.... Here's the mistake part: About 5 years later, I was breaking down my game boxes and jewelcases into a binder, condensing the 100 or so games I had by that point into a fraction of the size, (took up an entire bookshelf at the time!); And turns out, that the last 5 of my registration code wasn't N9103, it was N9031. Had a bit of a laugh at myself for my mistake, but I've stuck with it ever since, for it's both anonymous and identifying. Seen very few use such an odd and seemingly random name, but trying to search for it will almost always turn up hundreds of other things, from computer chips and resistors, to a boat prop. (last time I bothered checking anyways.. about 3 years ago.) For this Wiki though, I've replaced the username with my own, as this is something I'm happy to be a part of. (I've got another username that's all over the place as well, but I'll leave that for another time.) -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

:::: Ah-ha! I'm /not/ the only one. =) (I have a friend who goes by "Edward" online. His name is Kristianos. "Edward" is apparently a bit more anonymous than some other names. =P ) ... I stopped using A37139 as my catch-all user name about ten years ago because I kept having people ignore my stuff as bot generated. Bots that are trying to pretend to be people tend to have names like "Edward" these days, so maybe I can go back to using it, if I ever outgrow Teres. - 17:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:Well, it was the first name of one of my very, ''very'' first RP characters from "back in the day" (can you say "Traveler"?) Dr. Albedo Lightrock, combat librarian. And since it has other meanings - percentage of light reflected, etc etc - it seems to work. Nothing beyond that - not the old anthopomorphic comic (tho' that had a quality to it) nor the newer one by the same name. Nothing more than that.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 12:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::OMG! [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveller_(role-playing_game) Traveler!] I haven't played that in ... forever! One of the (but not /the/) first Teres incarnations was a [http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Droyne Droyne.] It was odd having em not be a "her" until the humans on the ship insisted ey pick a gender with which to identify. Good times! Thank you! - 17:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey Jaz, do you know you can use [[Special:Preferences]] to change your signature to Jaz instead of your login name? That way you get auto signature that says what you want it to say.
PS, I also had some "discussions" when I first joined up regarding totally re-organising the [[:category:stone]] to actually be heirarchial. Apparently it was not appreceiated![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:55, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
: Actually, I did know, and that's how I do it now. But thanks for sharing! (It took me a while to figure out, so that was nice of you to tell me!) -[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

== Your user [[User:Teres Draconis|page]] ==

I hope you don't mind, I put your personal description in the tags that make it look like it's in-game.
You can revert from the history tab if that's not what you were getting at... and my appologies in advance if you don't want other people editing your user page.

BTW, I'm with you on [[chert]] etc being their own wiki pages.

The fora aren't for the feint-hearted. I don't think I've actually posted. Isn't it increadible that a single developer has created such a massive ascii game with such a huge community... and he gives it away free because "it's still a beta"? Aparently it's been worth his while thought!
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 10:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

:Thanks! I don't actually know html all that well. Most of what I do know I've learned from playing with the wiki. Can you tell me how to get it to change to text colors midstream without putting the rest of the page into that format? I tried but I couldn't figure it out. Though it may have been the carriage return/line feeds that did it. The only other thing I can think of is to put it at the bottom, so that there isn't anything else to /be/ affected, but... I don't wanna. *pout* I had to revert it to fix the problem instead of just being able to add the apropriate tags, and that makes me feel ignorant and foolish and frustrated to the point I don't even want to update the actual body of information like I usually do. Of course, I'm also running out of time, today, so ... bleh. I'll play with it more next time. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:32, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
::Sorry, I "cook-booked" the whole thing. I think if you put a <nowiki></nowiki> at the end of where you want a "non standard" font that might work?
::like the way I've done this.
::For every <defintion> you need an </end definition>.
::HTH [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:43, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

::: Wheee! Thanks so much! I'd toss confetti, but it's a pain to clean up. Trust me, you're grateful. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 00:51, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
:::: That's OK, you reminded me to create a slightly different sig. hint: raw code box. [[User:GarrieIrons|Gar]][[User Talk:GarrieIrons|rie]] 03:50, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

== Have a cookie ==

Thank you all for reading/typing/chatting/editing. You've been so good to me. Have a cookie.

:[ITEM_FOOD:ITEM_FOOD_COOKIE]
:[NAME:cookie]
:[LEVEL:4]

This is a stack of 23 finely-prepared dwarven sugar cookie. The ingredients are superiorly minced dwarven wheat flour, finely minced mog juice, masterfully minced elk tallow and exceptionally minced dwarven sugar.

... And maybe a mug of cow's milk (or better, tuber beer!) to ... wash it down? 'Cause somehow I think mog juice and elk tallow don't neccissarily make for good cookie ingredients. But what do I know? I'm a human, not a dwarf. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:56, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

== the sig ==
(heavily edited for noise reduction. I'm going to keep this info for at least a while longer because it's still useful to me. Moved because sigs go at the end.)

*3 tildes (<nowiki>~~~</nowiki>) = [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]]
*4 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) = [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
*5 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki>) = 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

User:Teres Draconis

2009-06-19T00:03:44Z

Teres Draconis: Personality update

== {{K|u}} -> Teres Draconis -> {{K|v}} -> {{K|Enter}} ==

 
<div style="background: black; width: 50em;">

Teres Draconis has been unhappy lately. She got in a fight lately. She slept uneasily due to noise lately. She has been annoyed by flies lately. She talked with mother lately. She has admired own fine shirt recently. She has complained of the crowded tables lately. She has complained of the nasty water lately. She has been frustrated at work lately. She has talked to brother lately.


She is romanticly involved with <message redacted>. She is a casual worshiper of Mari the Chalice of Life.


She is a citizen of the United States. She is a member of <message redacted>.


Teres Draconis likes sandy loam, lapis lazuli, silver, the color green, elk leather, dogs for their loyalty and dragons for their terrible majesty. When possible, she prefers to consume cow's milk, cow cheese, wild strawberries and tuberbeer.


She is relaxed. She finds helping others rewarding. She is quick to anger. She is often nervous. She greatly apreciates art and natural beauty. She is willing to compromise with others. She often feels discouraged. She has a sense of duty. She tends to avoid crowds. She is bored by reality and has a wonderful imagination. She feels strong urges and seeks short-term rewards. She loves new and fresh ideas. She is disorganized. She is concerned about rejection and ridicule. She is occasionally given to procrastination. She is very friendly. She is slow to trust others. She does not feel effective in life. She often does the first thing that comes to mind.



</div style>

== What DF stuff I've done lately ==

=== in game ===

Nothing. Two weeks of being unable to boot my comp have kinda put a crimp on a lot of things. Haven't actually gotten around to playing DF since I've gotten back online. Lots of meatspace stuff to attend to first. When I finally get a chance, I'll probably play for "fun" for a bit before returning to my... "experiments". -[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

=== Wiki ===

Again, nothing. I'm updating my personal stuff but I'm not even looking at the main stuff, yet.... I apparently need to go learn html, since futzing with my desc. got me in trouble and I had to undo all of it. I like the visuals, but the colors are wrong. There are sections that should blue, green and cyan instead of all white. I tried to fix that, but it put everything else (including this section) into that style and just... looked wrong.

I am still looking for work for the wiki. I am too ... something... to go out and just add/fix stuff on my own. Don't want to get shot down again, but I do, usually, have a bit of time each week that I can devote to such things. If someone would like to point me to a dwarf wiki task that doesn't require sublime wit (which I often recognise in others but cannot seem to duplicate myself), nor experiance with modding, nor... let's just say if it's mindlessly boring "take this info from these three tables and use this format to put it there"... I'll do at least eight hours worth as penance for my not-so-recent sins (which have multiplied, apparently). If you're lucky, you'll get quite a bit more out of me. Depending on how long I put off starting, and what I'm using this task as an excuse for avoiding. ... See, my tendancy towards procrastination can be used to your advantage. -[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:12, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

== Ever feel like a little fish in a really big pond? ==

And that maybe the pond is filled with something other than clear crystal water?

I am wading through some of the forums at www.bay12games.com, trying not to duplicate threads as I make suggestions (or, in at least one case, point out that there is a perfectly good way of dealing with the problem they want dealt with without them suggesting something that would mess up my problem even more, and better yet, their solution is already functional in the game). My word, there is a lot of ... stuff... to wade through. Even if I find a thread that talks about something similar to what I'm thinking, it may be a good ten pages long... and if I don't want to sound like a "me too!" who didn't even bother to read what they're "me too!"ing, then... argh... And when that's /already/ a duplicate thread. Headache. And then it turns out that none of them address the subtle vision I see... or insist on making it too complicated to actually impliment...

And I have to wonder, if it's this difficult for me, wading through it all, how badly fare the Great Toad and his tri-toed sibling? Because I'm sure I'm not looking at even a tenth of the ... stuff... that they are. (And no, I don't mean "<redacted>" because it's worthless, but rather because there's just so much of it that it intimidates me and I thus feel the need to call it dirty words. I accept my common ways.)

So, Yargh, I say. Yargh! I will take my ineffective self to dinner, and maybe tomorrow will wade through more "suggestions" in the hopes of finding a gem, a clever mind who's desires match my own (and who was smart enough to phrase it in a way that other people actually understand).

--[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 00:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-06-14T00:51:19Z

Teres Draconis: /* Your user page */ gratitude shouldn't be so hard to express, when it's so easy to feel.

== the sig ==
(heavily edited for noise reduction. I'm going to keep this info for at least a while longer because it's still useful to me.)

*3 tildes (<nowiki>~~~</nowiki>) = [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]]
*4 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) = [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
*5 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki>) = 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== My personal note taking place ==

A lot of the following is just for my own personal note taking stuff. Feel free to add or comment or whatever. I don't mind.
Some of these questions (are) answered in the forums. I'll go check at some point, until then, this is where I'm storing my questions so I don't forget what it was I wanted to ask. ... the personality tags aught to have one for forgetfulness... which would related directly to how long they continue to think about things that have happened. One who was extremely forgetful might not list "slept in the rain" for as long as someone who had a clear recollection of things long past.

I play three versions of the game, randomly... one, the pure, out of the box, only thing messed with are the init files. Another with minor modifications to things like, oh... domestic cats are spayed when captured (affected by the child tags being replaced with [NO_GENDER])... we'll just pretend that they continue to breed like crazy out in the wilds.

---
For my modding purposes (uh, I've turned the smelter into a store to "buy" stuff from) , if anyone knows the TYPE:SUBTYPE:MATERIAL:MATGLOSS tags for any of the following, please please pretty please share them.

ivory, pearl, coral (I don't care if the creatures still don't drop them. I can "buy" it from my smelter, once I figure out the values for them)

containers with stuff in them. (for example, the cage the cow is in, the bag the sand is in, etc.) I figure the contents have to be listed seperately, but how do you get a barrel full of booze, and not booze in one hand and barrel in the other?... though, hey, now I have the idea for a booze-rfall. Must go attempt.

:Sadly, the boozerfall did not work. Nor the blooderfall that I had going in the smelter next to it (I figured, two trials for the price of one)... Even using a smelter to make a waterfall doesn't work. Apparently, any liquid product from the smelter, even if it is not stackable, does not flow out of the smelter, no matter how many you have... and if you unmake the smelter in the attempt to let it flow, it does not, but rather mysteriously vanishes into the unseen ether.... for my trial I used the (seemingly absurd) number 13,263. Strangely, 13263 waters will not overflow the smelter, nor run down the channels next to it, nor anything. They just sit in the smelter, making it nie impossible to use due to the liquid clutter.

:It would have been glorious, though. The plains flooded with Dwarven Ale. The gentle nurse lowering her bucket into the giant lake of booze to tote back to the wounded soldiers. The Generator [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1292-ubermistgenerator] making sweet smelling (and potentially intoxicating) mists... Sadly, this method does not work. I'll see if I can find another...

::Perhaps if I fill a room with 10000 barrels of booze, and then go mod the melting tempurature of the barrels to really low? Or, hmmm... wonder if you can make barrels out of ice? No, it acts like rock, and there are no rock barrels... except for... so maybe, hmmmm... ok! Gonna go try that next!
:::These things all start as "stacks", not flows, so they don't. I've heard mutterings that certain kinds of cave ins can turn fluid stacks into fluid flows but that's it. Whether it works or not, caving in something on top of a smelter containing a million water would be hilarious...--[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

"plant cheeses"... like, say, tofu. ... how do I get the plants to let me make cheese from the extract? Twice I've tried, twice I've failed. I can keep experimenting, but... eh.

-
For the game designers and those who speak to them (go ahead, claim credit, I'm ok with that)... things I'd like to see in future versions...

a way to mod the workshops themselves. For instance, when I tell the manager I want to make 300 cheeses, I don't want the "make cheese" task to fill up the farmer's workshop I've dedicated to my spinner (making plant thread). I can dedicate /who/ works there. I'd like to dedicate the kinds of tasks that can be performed there, too.

:I know I can make a task repeatable... but if I want to save out 100 of my 400 barrels of milk for direct cooking, and don't want to have to forbid them, unforbid them, etc... besides, this was an example... could just as easily be "make stone toys" at the bone carver's shop.

I'd like to see a tag to put on things like sheep that allows for sheering. I want to make wool cloth without having to slaughter my sheep for them. ... and angoras, too. Poor bunnies. Not that I get cloth now... I get leather still, but...

:Probably would have the same problem as milking currently does. Perhaps when they get around to fixing that, they may put this one in as well... if someone makes them think of it.

I'd like to be able to make dyes from animal products. For instance, there are snails that produce a lovely purple color when crushed. No, I'm not with PETA, how did you guess?

I'd like to be able to dye worked cloth. The dress was made with undyed cloth? Should be easy to fix. I'd also like to be able to redye dyed cloth. In real life it would simply add color but I'd be ok with a "paint over" kind of effect.

Maybe mix dyes to make new colors? ... The only way I can think of right now to mod that in is to have a plant for each of them and then smelt two dyes into something else, red and blue make purple like iron and pig iron make steel.

I think bones (raw hides, skulls, shells) should be binable. I mean, really. I have 10 fishbones a cat's skull and a turtle shell that take up the same floorspace as 12 beds?!? Put them in a bin. On raw hides: it rots. Ok, two choices. One: don't let me bin this. I'll still be happy if I can bin the friggin' bones, shells, skulls. Or, two: The rot spreads to everything it touches, and, since it's "in" something, it produces miasma. Even if the bin is outside. I don't think that "rat remains" and "dog chunks" and such should be binable. I mean, ew. Also, those don't go into the workshop stockpiles for processing. At least, not in /my/ fortresses. ... again, ew.

... One or two last thoughts before I actually post this...

Is there a way to make a mixed group of creatures that spawn together? I mean, take your average herd in Africa. You're going to have zebras and elephants and girraffs and several other things besides, often all walking together. Sure, often you find a herd of just elephants, but often you'll find one or two in a mix of other things as well. And flocks of birds who travel with them, too.

I'm considering adding a new medium-heavy mod that accounts for things like mixed herds, beehives (worker bees, queen bee, guard bees), maybe beemen... though antmen could use this, too. Antmen could maybe have pet Giant Aphids (who, storywise they milk but who aren't tamable to humanoids)...

And, thirdly (I know I said one or two)... feralization. I can keep my tame but unclaimed pets mostly in one area by defining it as a meeting zone... but if I don't... and if they wander off (even if they don't)... I think that if they don't see one of their caretakers for, oh, two seasons (maybe less... maybe a tag that says how quickly?)... they should feralize. Easy way is just to make them go back to being the wild version of that creature. If it's in the wrong biome... uh, oops? Might die sooner? Might get eaten by a grue, I mean, uh... Another way is to make a whole other classification (wild, tame, feral)... maybe it adjusts how aggressive it is. Maybe not. Maybe it adjusts how easily it goes back to being tame. Would this tag be passed on to it's young? Or would the young just be "wild" to start with? If you were near another outpost, city or whatever, would you have their feral creatures start wandering into your area on occasion? Just what you need, the neighbor's feral dragon has decided your keep is it's new home!

Ok, Done. I'll edit and such later, and reduce the noise as I get answers. Or, you know, you can if you like. Whatever.

-jaz

: I would really really like to see a little option pop up. When everything pauses and recenters because the miners struck something new on a level, and it says ... whatever it says... I'd like there to be a (d)ig, (s)trip, (f)orbid option.
::(d)ig would just dig the squares you've already designated.
::(s)trip would designate for mining squares of that type, on that level, /as they are discovered/, even if they aren't currently designated. If it's done "as discovered", you won't neccissarily know how much you're getting until it's done, thus maintaining the mystery. You should still be able to undesignate squares that have been designated automatically.
::(f)orbid would un-designate squares of that type, on that level, as they are discovered.
:That way I don't have my newbie miner failing the attempt to mine out the diamonds. I can just leave them there for later. And if I have 4 levels of mining going on, I can't watch every level all the time to see if a new deposite of something already mentioned shows up, or whatever... I can just say "no, not that" as it's discovered, and all the miners know to leave it, and all other instances of it, alone.

== Noise Reduction ==
Things that got answered... They will get deleted out all together at some point as I don't want this talks page to be 40 bajillion pages long.

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] suggested I look on/post to the forums for my ideas and wants, game wise... apparently quite a few of them were already mentioned. I've removed some from my list. Not that I think they're neccsissarly upcoming, but well, noise reduction. I've posted some already, and some I don't even know how to search for the thread. Then again, worst is worst, someone calls me an idiot and points to the 47 other threads that I'm repeating. I'll only feel rejected and foolish. What's so wrong with that? ... "Teres Draconis ... is concerned about rejection and ridicule." ... Oh, right. Cry me a river. Do it anyways, Jaz.
... doing, doing, done. --[[User:Teres Draconis|-- jaz]] 00:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:You're a noise one, aren't you. It's ok, just lurk around the forum for a while. Use search, which is a little odd, until you realize that there are two different search boxes.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:09, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::I am definately a noisy one. And lurking is what I do for /before/ I sign up for a username. I'm rather like a humming bird. Most people think they're dainty little things, quietly going from one flower to the next, completely silent except for the beat of their wings... until two males get in a fight over territory, and then everyone is saying "What's making all that racket?!?", "Oh, my god! My ears are bleeding!" and "Can't a person suffer a hang-over in peace around here?!". - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

== Chalk & whinging ==

Nice work, very thorough - but slow down, just for now. On the Main Page discussion, folk are trying to decide whether/how to structure the guidelines, what constitutes "an article" - and they should all be along the same lines. I like your effort - don't want to see it get undone to conform to any new guidelines.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:Thanks! I'll go see if I can find that discussion and maybe point to that in a grab for attention and prase. Yes, the gems. *teases* --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 08:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::If you want to add some new information to a page, it can be done without deleting everything that is already on it. I suggest you stick to minor improvements rather than complete rewritings. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::But the only thing chalk had on it before was, like, three bits of information. 1) it was a sedementary layer stone, 2) i could be used as flux, and 3) it had lots of gems/ore that could be found in it. The first two data bits are still there, and the third one is heavily expanded to the point of actually being informative if someone wants to know "well, what can I find?"
:::Meh, maybe I should put in a redirect here to the convo on the main page's talk tab. ... Not entirely sure how to do that yet, but I know of at least three places where I can find examples so... meh.
::::[[Talk:Main Page]] --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::::P.S. You're a little overenthusiastic. Chill. Stick to the small things. When you understand how things run around here, THEN start rewriting crap. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:: There was a big long thing here that, upon going away for an hour, and then coming back and reading it again, I realised was mostly whining and "poor me" and "nobody understands me"... So I didn't post it, because this is not the place for that. I have a blog (which I never use) if I want to whine.

::I will simply say that I posted /one/ page (and lots of talk, 'cause I'm chatty), and asked for responses. I got several before I could even start on the next page, all of which asked me to hold off, or slow down, or similar. So I'm holding off, and... ok, not slowing down, exactly... but I'll do the work, and keep it for my own use, and if people say "hey, that was good, do it again" I can, and if they say "Change it this way" I /maybe/ can, and if they don't say anything, I can keep keeping it to myself, unless someone asks for a copy of my work, in which case, I can do that, too. (See, I have a "can do" attitude!)

::I am done talking about talking about it. I'm mostly done talking about it directly. Time for me to play the game or get off the computer. Besides. I have milkable cows now. My life is complete. =) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

::: See, there's something that is pure "addition", not rewriting - milkable cows. Make a new article. Be terse and factual, "how it's done". Be objective, no "I". Link from [[cow]]s and [[milk]] - that's more the sort of thing that the wiki needs.
:::The problem with the chalk rewrite/reformat is that you completely changed a page that had scores of other related pages that used the ''identical'' format. You also, by your own admission, "copied and pasted" - wiki's don't like redundant info if they can avoid it, and certainly not ''that'' much. If someone wants to know all about a specific gem, they go to the article on that gem, or failing that then the [[gem]] page, not the page on the stone where that gem is found along with many, many others.
:::After you are here a while, you'll get a feel for the overall style - and can branch out from there.

:::: I hear you. I'll... be patient. And, my milkable cows are a mod, and kinda a cobbled one at that. You can't buy them from the embark screen (though I had traders bring them on the first visit... of course, that doesn't help much, since it can't be /tame/ and milked. Argh! Who came up with this mess?!? TOADY!!!), they teleport, and my cats keep killing the wild ones. I'm working on it, ok? But I can milk them. And they're called cows. Once you know that, it should be easy to figure out what I did. Not a hard mod at all. -- [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

== Naming Conventions ==

(PS - And, I gotta ask - why "jaz" when you just signed up as a User with TD? Why not just sign up with jaz to begin with?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

: Uh, 'cause it's my name? And, as far as the web is concerned, I am Teres Draconis. ... last week, <name redacted> did a search for me, 'cause she's a dope and couldn't remember some minor detail about something completely irrelevant to this conversation. She came up with some orchid sites competely unrelated to how I got my name, and almost everything else was in some way related to me. I use it because it helps people find me, to know that it's me and not some /other/ Jazlyn. ('cause, you know, it's a /really/ common name. *snerk*) Two years ago, /everything/ that came up in a google search for Teres Draconis would have been about orchids or me. And I'm no delicate flower. Sadly.

Some random stuff (you probably don't care about) reguarding my nick and where it comes from...

:"Teres" is latin for "rounded, polished, smooth, fine, elegant" (things I aspire to be... and something a dragon would love, since it's both gem related and indicates a certain level of grandois... ishness... oif. Yep, I'm not there, yet.)

: Teres Draconis was my first dragon type character. I have used her name for every other genre in which I played a dragon, because the character herself was familiar to me, leaving only the variances of this game vs that one to learn. Much easier (for me) to learn the rules that way. (I use this technique alot. "Tessi" is almost always the name of a kinder/half-elf/small-cute-humanoid-thief character the first time I play a game, "Wudi" for small cute felines, etc.) ((Wudi=extreme cuteness, usually only found in kittens, puppies and those babies you love. Wudi overdose is often diagnosed by people saying such absurd things as "You're a kitty! Yes you are!" to some poor, patiently forbearing feline awaiting rescue or escape, or some other such context-applicable drivel.))

::Yeah, that makes me want to puke. The cute overload. When people do that... It's just, augh. Why. Not that I don't, just not when I'm busy doing things. You know, the fey moods? Yeah. I do that. Not quite, but yeah. Lots of fun. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:39, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:I use Teres Draconis because it makes it easier to remember user names if I only have one that I use everywhere I go.... I actually have more than that, because some places (like, oh, my work, school, bank, horticulture society) require that usernames follow their naming conventions. Makes it easier for whoever to find me in the database if they don't have to remember that I go by this funny name, and joe smith goes by that one.... everyone goes by something in their real names, or by some serial code, or whatever. I tend to forget those more, even when I use them twice a day, three days a week for 9 weeks at a time.

So, how did you come up with /your/ name? (open to all, not just [[User:Albedo|Albedo]])

::P.S. I love etymology, and the related field of where names come from (though I never remember what that's called)... and since online you get to choose your own name, it makes it much more personal... and could potentially tell a lot about who you are. If nothing else, it might just say you're fairly conventional (read:uncreative *teases*) in your naming coventions. (There's a place for everything, even convention. But if the name you get to choose for yourself doesn't say /anything/ about you... ) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] (and even the fact that I use /that/ nickname says something about me)

:::Hmm.. mines something unusual I'd say. (N9103) It's both a mistake and a memory. One of the first game-related things I ever bought for myself (around 1996) was a professionally done editor for Red Alert(1) called Control Center. My Westwood online account for the game followed some time after that, when I had gotten bored with trying new modifications to the game settings. This was probably my first ever handle, though I had lurked on many a forum well enough to know that anonymity is preferable to identity, so rather than trying to find a way to anonymize my name, I simply went with the last set of registration characters for the Control Center program.... Here's the mistake part: About 5 years later, I was breaking down my game boxes and jewelcases into a binder, condensing the 100 or so games I had by that point into a fraction of the size, (took up an entire bookshelf at the time!); And turns out, that the last 5 of my registration code wasn't N9103, it was N9031. Had a bit of a laugh at myself for my mistake, but I've stuck with it ever since, for it's both anonymous and identifying. Seen very few use such an odd and seemingly random name, but trying to search for it will almost always turn up hundreds of other things, from computer chips and resistors, to a boat prop. (last time I bothered checking anyways.. about 3 years ago.) For this Wiki though, I've replaced the username with my own, as this is something I'm happy to be a part of. (I've got another username that's all over the place as well, but I'll leave that for another time.) -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

:::: Ah-ha! I'm /not/ the only one. =) (I have a friend who goes by "Edward" online. His name is Kristianos. "Edward" is apparently a bit more anonymous than some other names. =P ) ... I stopped using A37139 as my catch-all user name about ten years ago because I kept having people ignore my stuff as bot generated. Bots that are trying to pretend to be people tend to have names like "Edward" these days, so maybe I can go back to using it, if I ever outgrow Teres. - 17:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:Well, it was the first name of one of my very, ''very'' first RP characters from "back in the day" (can you say "Traveler"?) Dr. Albedo Lightrock, combat librarian. And since it has other meanings - percentage of light reflected, etc etc - it seems to work. Nothing beyond that - not the old anthopomorphic comic (tho' that had a quality to it) nor the newer one by the same name. Nothing more than that.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 12:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::OMG! [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveller_(role-playing_game) Traveler!] I haven't played that in ... forever! One of the (but not /the/) first Teres incarnations was a [http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Droyne Droyne.] It was odd having em not be a "her" until the humans on the ship insisted ey pick a gender with which to identify. Good times! Thank you! - 17:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey Jaz, do you know you can use [[Special:Preferences]] to change your signature to Jaz instead of your login name? That way you get auto signature that says what you want it to say.
PS, I also had some "discussions" when I first joined up regarding totally re-organising the [[:category:stone]] to actually be heirarchial. Apparently it was not appreceiated![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:55, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
: Actually, I did know, and that's how I do it now. But thanks for sharing! (It took me a while to figure out, so that was nice of you to tell me!) -[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

== Your user [[User:Teres Draconis|page]] ==

I hope you don't mind, I put your personal description in the tags that make it look like it's in-game.
You can revert from the history tab if that's not what you were getting at... and my appologies in advance if you don't want other people editing your user page.

BTW, I'm with you on [[chert]] etc being their own wiki pages.

The fora aren't for the feint-hearted. I don't think I've actually posted. Isn't it increadible that a single developer has created such a massive ascii game with such a huge community... and he gives it away free because "it's still a beta"? Aparently it's been worth his while thought!
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 10:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

:Thanks! I don't actually know html all that well. Most of what I do know I've learned from playing with the wiki. Can you tell me how to get it to change to text colors midstream without putting the rest of the page into that format? I tried but I couldn't figure it out. Though it may have been the carriage return/line feeds that did it. The only other thing I can think of is to put it at the bottom, so that there isn't anything else to /be/ affected, but... I don't wanna. *pout* I had to revert it to fix the problem instead of just being able to add the apropriate tags, and that makes me feel ignorant and foolish and frustrated to the point I don't even want to update the actual body of information like I usually do. Of course, I'm also running out of time, today, so ... bleh. I'll play with it more next time. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:32, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
::Sorry, I "cook-booked" the whole thing. I think if you put a <nowiki></nowiki> at the end of where you want a "non standard" font that might work?
::like the way I've done this.
::For every <defintion> you need an </end definition>.
::HTH [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:43, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

::: Wheee! Thanks so much! I'd toss confetti, but it's a pain to clean up. Trust me, you're grateful. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 00:51, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

== Have a cookie ==

Thank you all for reading/typing/chatting/editing. You've been so good to me. Have a cookie.

:[ITEM_FOOD:ITEM_FOOD_COOKIE]
:[NAME:cookie]
:[LEVEL:4]

This is a stack of 23 finely-prepared dwarven sugar cookie. The ingredients are superiorly minced dwarven wheat flour, finely minced mog juice, masterfully minced elk tallow and exceptionally minced dwarven sugar.

... And maybe a mug of cow's milk (or better, tuber beer!) to ... wash it down? 'Cause somehow I think mog juice and elk tallow don't neccissarily make for good cookie ingredients. But what do I know? I'm a human, not a dwarf. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:56, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-06-13T00:14:54Z

Teres Draconis: /* Noise Reduction */

== the sig ==
(heavily edited for noise reduction. I'm going to keep this info for at least a while longer because it's still useful to me.)

*3 tildes (<nowiki>~~~</nowiki>) = [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]]
*4 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) = [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
*5 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki>) = 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== My personal note taking place ==

A lot of the following is just for my own personal note taking stuff. Feel free to add or comment or whatever. I don't mind.
Some of these questions (are) answered in the forums. I'll go check at some point, until then, this is where I'm storing my questions so I don't forget what it was I wanted to ask. ... the personality tags aught to have one for forgetfulness... which would related directly to how long they continue to think about things that have happened. One who was extremely forgetful might not list "slept in the rain" for as long as someone who had a clear recollection of things long past.

I play three versions of the game, randomly... one, the pure, out of the box, only thing messed with are the init files. Another with minor modifications to things like, oh... domestic cats are spayed when captured (affected by the child tags being replaced with [NO_GENDER])... we'll just pretend that they continue to breed like crazy out in the wilds.

---
For my modding purposes (uh, I've turned the smelter into a store to "buy" stuff from) , if anyone knows the TYPE:SUBTYPE:MATERIAL:MATGLOSS tags for any of the following, please please pretty please share them.

ivory, pearl, coral (I don't care if the creatures still don't drop them. I can "buy" it from my smelter, once I figure out the values for them)

containers with stuff in them. (for example, the cage the cow is in, the bag the sand is in, etc.) I figure the contents have to be listed seperately, but how do you get a barrel full of booze, and not booze in one hand and barrel in the other?... though, hey, now I have the idea for a booze-rfall. Must go attempt.

:Sadly, the boozerfall did not work. Nor the blooderfall that I had going in the smelter next to it (I figured, two trials for the price of one)... Even using a smelter to make a waterfall doesn't work. Apparently, any liquid product from the smelter, even if it is not stackable, does not flow out of the smelter, no matter how many you have... and if you unmake the smelter in the attempt to let it flow, it does not, but rather mysteriously vanishes into the unseen ether.... for my trial I used the (seemingly absurd) number 13,263. Strangely, 13263 waters will not overflow the smelter, nor run down the channels next to it, nor anything. They just sit in the smelter, making it nie impossible to use due to the liquid clutter.

:It would have been glorious, though. The plains flooded with Dwarven Ale. The gentle nurse lowering her bucket into the giant lake of booze to tote back to the wounded soldiers. The Generator [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1292-ubermistgenerator] making sweet smelling (and potentially intoxicating) mists... Sadly, this method does not work. I'll see if I can find another...

::Perhaps if I fill a room with 10000 barrels of booze, and then go mod the melting tempurature of the barrels to really low? Or, hmmm... wonder if you can make barrels out of ice? No, it acts like rock, and there are no rock barrels... except for... so maybe, hmmmm... ok! Gonna go try that next!
:::These things all start as "stacks", not flows, so they don't. I've heard mutterings that certain kinds of cave ins can turn fluid stacks into fluid flows but that's it. Whether it works or not, caving in something on top of a smelter containing a million water would be hilarious...--[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

"plant cheeses"... like, say, tofu. ... how do I get the plants to let me make cheese from the extract? Twice I've tried, twice I've failed. I can keep experimenting, but... eh.

-
For the game designers and those who speak to them (go ahead, claim credit, I'm ok with that)... things I'd like to see in future versions...

a way to mod the workshops themselves. For instance, when I tell the manager I want to make 300 cheeses, I don't want the "make cheese" task to fill up the farmer's workshop I've dedicated to my spinner (making plant thread). I can dedicate /who/ works there. I'd like to dedicate the kinds of tasks that can be performed there, too.

:I know I can make a task repeatable... but if I want to save out 100 of my 400 barrels of milk for direct cooking, and don't want to have to forbid them, unforbid them, etc... besides, this was an example... could just as easily be "make stone toys" at the bone carver's shop.

I'd like to see a tag to put on things like sheep that allows for sheering. I want to make wool cloth without having to slaughter my sheep for them. ... and angoras, too. Poor bunnies. Not that I get cloth now... I get leather still, but...

:Probably would have the same problem as milking currently does. Perhaps when they get around to fixing that, they may put this one in as well... if someone makes them think of it.

I'd like to be able to make dyes from animal products. For instance, there are snails that produce a lovely purple color when crushed. No, I'm not with PETA, how did you guess?

I'd like to be able to dye worked cloth. The dress was made with undyed cloth? Should be easy to fix. I'd also like to be able to redye dyed cloth. In real life it would simply add color but I'd be ok with a "paint over" kind of effect.

Maybe mix dyes to make new colors? ... The only way I can think of right now to mod that in is to have a plant for each of them and then smelt two dyes into something else, red and blue make purple like iron and pig iron make steel.

I think bones (raw hides, skulls, shells) should be binable. I mean, really. I have 10 fishbones a cat's skull and a turtle shell that take up the same floorspace as 12 beds?!? Put them in a bin. On raw hides: it rots. Ok, two choices. One: don't let me bin this. I'll still be happy if I can bin the friggin' bones, shells, skulls. Or, two: The rot spreads to everything it touches, and, since it's "in" something, it produces miasma. Even if the bin is outside. I don't think that "rat remains" and "dog chunks" and such should be binable. I mean, ew. Also, those don't go into the workshop stockpiles for processing. At least, not in /my/ fortresses. ... again, ew.

... One or two last thoughts before I actually post this...

Is there a way to make a mixed group of creatures that spawn together? I mean, take your average herd in Africa. You're going to have zebras and elephants and girraffs and several other things besides, often all walking together. Sure, often you find a herd of just elephants, but often you'll find one or two in a mix of other things as well. And flocks of birds who travel with them, too.

I'm considering adding a new medium-heavy mod that accounts for things like mixed herds, beehives (worker bees, queen bee, guard bees), maybe beemen... though antmen could use this, too. Antmen could maybe have pet Giant Aphids (who, storywise they milk but who aren't tamable to humanoids)...

And, thirdly (I know I said one or two)... feralization. I can keep my tame but unclaimed pets mostly in one area by defining it as a meeting zone... but if I don't... and if they wander off (even if they don't)... I think that if they don't see one of their caretakers for, oh, two seasons (maybe less... maybe a tag that says how quickly?)... they should feralize. Easy way is just to make them go back to being the wild version of that creature. If it's in the wrong biome... uh, oops? Might die sooner? Might get eaten by a grue, I mean, uh... Another way is to make a whole other classification (wild, tame, feral)... maybe it adjusts how aggressive it is. Maybe not. Maybe it adjusts how easily it goes back to being tame. Would this tag be passed on to it's young? Or would the young just be "wild" to start with? If you were near another outpost, city or whatever, would you have their feral creatures start wandering into your area on occasion? Just what you need, the neighbor's feral dragon has decided your keep is it's new home!

Ok, Done. I'll edit and such later, and reduce the noise as I get answers. Or, you know, you can if you like. Whatever.

-jaz

: I would really really like to see a little option pop up. When everything pauses and recenters because the miners struck something new on a level, and it says ... whatever it says... I'd like there to be a (d)ig, (s)trip, (f)orbid option.
::(d)ig would just dig the squares you've already designated.
::(s)trip would designate for mining squares of that type, on that level, /as they are discovered/, even if they aren't currently designated. If it's done "as discovered", you won't neccissarily know how much you're getting until it's done, thus maintaining the mystery. You should still be able to undesignate squares that have been designated automatically.
::(f)orbid would un-designate squares of that type, on that level, as they are discovered.
:That way I don't have my newbie miner failing the attempt to mine out the diamonds. I can just leave them there for later. And if I have 4 levels of mining going on, I can't watch every level all the time to see if a new deposite of something already mentioned shows up, or whatever... I can just say "no, not that" as it's discovered, and all the miners know to leave it, and all other instances of it, alone.

== Noise Reduction ==
Things that got answered... They will get deleted out all together at some point as I don't want this talks page to be 40 bajillion pages long.

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] suggested I look on/post to the forums for my ideas and wants, game wise... apparently quite a few of them were already mentioned. I've removed some from my list. Not that I think they're neccsissarly upcoming, but well, noise reduction. I've posted some already, and some I don't even know how to search for the thread. Then again, worst is worst, someone calls me an idiot and points to the 47 other threads that I'm repeating. I'll only feel rejected and foolish. What's so wrong with that? ... "Teres Draconis ... is concerned about rejection and ridicule." ... Oh, right. Cry me a river. Do it anyways, Jaz.
... doing, doing, done. --[[User:Teres Draconis|-- jaz]] 00:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:You're a noise one, aren't you. It's ok, just lurk around the forum for a while. Use search, which is a little odd, until you realize that there are two different search boxes.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:09, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::I am definately a noisy one. And lurking is what I do for /before/ I sign up for a username. I'm rather like a humming bird. Most people think they're dainty little things, quietly going from one flower to the next, completely silent except for the beat of their wings... until two males get in a fight over territory, and then everyone is saying "What's making all that racket?!?", "Oh, my god! My ears are bleeding!" and "Can't a person suffer a hang-over in peace around here?!". - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

== Chalk & whinging ==

Nice work, very thorough - but slow down, just for now. On the Main Page discussion, folk are trying to decide whether/how to structure the guidelines, what constitutes "an article" - and they should all be along the same lines. I like your effort - don't want to see it get undone to conform to any new guidelines.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:Thanks! I'll go see if I can find that discussion and maybe point to that in a grab for attention and prase. Yes, the gems. *teases* --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 08:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::If you want to add some new information to a page, it can be done without deleting everything that is already on it. I suggest you stick to minor improvements rather than complete rewritings. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::But the only thing chalk had on it before was, like, three bits of information. 1) it was a sedementary layer stone, 2) i could be used as flux, and 3) it had lots of gems/ore that could be found in it. The first two data bits are still there, and the third one is heavily expanded to the point of actually being informative if someone wants to know "well, what can I find?"
:::Meh, maybe I should put in a redirect here to the convo on the main page's talk tab. ... Not entirely sure how to do that yet, but I know of at least three places where I can find examples so... meh.
::::[[Talk:Main Page]] --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::::P.S. You're a little overenthusiastic. Chill. Stick to the small things. When you understand how things run around here, THEN start rewriting crap. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:: There was a big long thing here that, upon going away for an hour, and then coming back and reading it again, I realised was mostly whining and "poor me" and "nobody understands me"... So I didn't post it, because this is not the place for that. I have a blog (which I never use) if I want to whine.

::I will simply say that I posted /one/ page (and lots of talk, 'cause I'm chatty), and asked for responses. I got several before I could even start on the next page, all of which asked me to hold off, or slow down, or similar. So I'm holding off, and... ok, not slowing down, exactly... but I'll do the work, and keep it for my own use, and if people say "hey, that was good, do it again" I can, and if they say "Change it this way" I /maybe/ can, and if they don't say anything, I can keep keeping it to myself, unless someone asks for a copy of my work, in which case, I can do that, too. (See, I have a "can do" attitude!)

::I am done talking about talking about it. I'm mostly done talking about it directly. Time for me to play the game or get off the computer. Besides. I have milkable cows now. My life is complete. =) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

::: See, there's something that is pure "addition", not rewriting - milkable cows. Make a new article. Be terse and factual, "how it's done". Be objective, no "I". Link from [[cow]]s and [[milk]] - that's more the sort of thing that the wiki needs.
:::The problem with the chalk rewrite/reformat is that you completely changed a page that had scores of other related pages that used the ''identical'' format. You also, by your own admission, "copied and pasted" - wiki's don't like redundant info if they can avoid it, and certainly not ''that'' much. If someone wants to know all about a specific gem, they go to the article on that gem, or failing that then the [[gem]] page, not the page on the stone where that gem is found along with many, many others.
:::After you are here a while, you'll get a feel for the overall style - and can branch out from there.

:::: I hear you. I'll... be patient. And, my milkable cows are a mod, and kinda a cobbled one at that. You can't buy them from the embark screen (though I had traders bring them on the first visit... of course, that doesn't help much, since it can't be /tame/ and milked. Argh! Who came up with this mess?!? TOADY!!!), they teleport, and my cats keep killing the wild ones. I'm working on it, ok? But I can milk them. And they're called cows. Once you know that, it should be easy to figure out what I did. Not a hard mod at all. -- [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

== Naming Conventions ==

(PS - And, I gotta ask - why "jaz" when you just signed up as a User with TD? Why not just sign up with jaz to begin with?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

: Uh, 'cause it's my name? And, as far as the web is concerned, I am Teres Draconis. ... last week, <name redacted> did a search for me, 'cause she's a dope and couldn't remember some minor detail about something completely irrelevant to this conversation. She came up with some orchid sites competely unrelated to how I got my name, and almost everything else was in some way related to me. I use it because it helps people find me, to know that it's me and not some /other/ Jazlyn. ('cause, you know, it's a /really/ common name. *snerk*) Two years ago, /everything/ that came up in a google search for Teres Draconis would have been about orchids or me. And I'm no delicate flower. Sadly.

Some random stuff (you probably don't care about) reguarding my nick and where it comes from...

:"Teres" is latin for "rounded, polished, smooth, fine, elegant" (things I aspire to be... and something a dragon would love, since it's both gem related and indicates a certain level of grandois... ishness... oif. Yep, I'm not there, yet.)

: Teres Draconis was my first dragon type character. I have used her name for every other genre in which I played a dragon, because the character herself was familiar to me, leaving only the variances of this game vs that one to learn. Much easier (for me) to learn the rules that way. (I use this technique alot. "Tessi" is almost always the name of a kinder/half-elf/small-cute-humanoid-thief character the first time I play a game, "Wudi" for small cute felines, etc.) ((Wudi=extreme cuteness, usually only found in kittens, puppies and those babies you love. Wudi overdose is often diagnosed by people saying such absurd things as "You're a kitty! Yes you are!" to some poor, patiently forbearing feline awaiting rescue or escape, or some other such context-applicable drivel.))

::Yeah, that makes me want to puke. The cute overload. When people do that... It's just, augh. Why. Not that I don't, just not when I'm busy doing things. You know, the fey moods? Yeah. I do that. Not quite, but yeah. Lots of fun. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:39, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:I use Teres Draconis because it makes it easier to remember user names if I only have one that I use everywhere I go.... I actually have more than that, because some places (like, oh, my work, school, bank, horticulture society) require that usernames follow their naming conventions. Makes it easier for whoever to find me in the database if they don't have to remember that I go by this funny name, and joe smith goes by that one.... everyone goes by something in their real names, or by some serial code, or whatever. I tend to forget those more, even when I use them twice a day, three days a week for 9 weeks at a time.

So, how did you come up with /your/ name? (open to all, not just [[User:Albedo|Albedo]])

::P.S. I love etymology, and the related field of where names come from (though I never remember what that's called)... and since online you get to choose your own name, it makes it much more personal... and could potentially tell a lot about who you are. If nothing else, it might just say you're fairly conventional (read:uncreative *teases*) in your naming coventions. (There's a place for everything, even convention. But if the name you get to choose for yourself doesn't say /anything/ about you... ) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] (and even the fact that I use /that/ nickname says something about me)

:::Hmm.. mines something unusual I'd say. (N9103) It's both a mistake and a memory. One of the first game-related things I ever bought for myself (around 1996) was a professionally done editor for Red Alert(1) called Control Center. My Westwood online account for the game followed some time after that, when I had gotten bored with trying new modifications to the game settings. This was probably my first ever handle, though I had lurked on many a forum well enough to know that anonymity is preferable to identity, so rather than trying to find a way to anonymize my name, I simply went with the last set of registration characters for the Control Center program.... Here's the mistake part: About 5 years later, I was breaking down my game boxes and jewelcases into a binder, condensing the 100 or so games I had by that point into a fraction of the size, (took up an entire bookshelf at the time!); And turns out, that the last 5 of my registration code wasn't N9103, it was N9031. Had a bit of a laugh at myself for my mistake, but I've stuck with it ever since, for it's both anonymous and identifying. Seen very few use such an odd and seemingly random name, but trying to search for it will almost always turn up hundreds of other things, from computer chips and resistors, to a boat prop. (last time I bothered checking anyways.. about 3 years ago.) For this Wiki though, I've replaced the username with my own, as this is something I'm happy to be a part of. (I've got another username that's all over the place as well, but I'll leave that for another time.) -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

:::: Ah-ha! I'm /not/ the only one. =) (I have a friend who goes by "Edward" online. His name is Kristianos. "Edward" is apparently a bit more anonymous than some other names. =P ) ... I stopped using A37139 as my catch-all user name about ten years ago because I kept having people ignore my stuff as bot generated. Bots that are trying to pretend to be people tend to have names like "Edward" these days, so maybe I can go back to using it, if I ever outgrow Teres. - 17:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:Well, it was the first name of one of my very, ''very'' first RP characters from "back in the day" (can you say "Traveler"?) Dr. Albedo Lightrock, combat librarian. And since it has other meanings - percentage of light reflected, etc etc - it seems to work. Nothing beyond that - not the old anthopomorphic comic (tho' that had a quality to it) nor the newer one by the same name. Nothing more than that.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 12:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::OMG! [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveller_(role-playing_game) Traveler!] I haven't played that in ... forever! One of the (but not /the/) first Teres incarnations was a [http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Droyne Droyne.] It was odd having em not be a "her" until the humans on the ship insisted ey pick a gender with which to identify. Good times! Thank you! - 17:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey Jaz, do you know you can use [[Special:Preferences]] to change your signature to Jaz instead of your login name? That way you get auto signature that says what you want it to say.
PS, I also had some "discussions" when I first joined up regarding totally re-organising the [[category:stones]] to actually be heirarchial. Apparently it was not appreceiated![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:55, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
: Actually, I did know, and that's how I do it now. But thanks for sharing! (It took me a while to figure out, so that was nice of you to tell me!) -[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

== Your user [[User:Teres Draconis|page]] ==

I hope you don't mind, I put your personal description in the tags that make it look like it's in-game.
You can revert from the history tab if that's not what you were getting at... and my appologies in advance if you don't want other people editing your user page.

BTW, I'm with you on [[chert]] etc being their own wiki pages.

The fora aren't for the feint-hearted. I don't think I've actually posted. Isn't it increadible that a single developer has created such a massive ascii game with such a huge community... and he gives it away free because "it's still a beta"? Aparently it's been worth his while thought!
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 10:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

:Thanks! I don't actually know html all that well. Most of what I do know I've learned from playing with the wiki. Can you tell me how to get it to change to text colors midstream without putting the rest of the page into that format? I tried but I couldn't figure it out. Though it may have been the carriage return/line feeds that did it. The only other thing I can think of is to put it at the bottom, so that there isn't anything else to /be/ affected, but... I don't wanna. *pout* I had to revert it to fix the problem instead of just being able to add the apropriate tags, and that makes me feel ignorant and foolish and frustrated to the point I don't even want to update the actual body of information like I usually do. Of course, I'm also running out of time, today, so ... bleh. I'll play with it more next time. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:32, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

== Have a cookie ==

Thank you all for reading/typing/chatting/editing. You've been so good to me. Have a cookie.

:[ITEM_FOOD:ITEM_FOOD_COOKIE]
:[NAME:cookie]
:[LEVEL:4]

This is a stack of 23 finely-prepared dwarven sugar cookie. The ingredients are superiorly minced dwarven wheat flour, finely minced mog juice, masterfully minced elk tallow and exceptionally minced dwarven sugar.

... And maybe a mug of cow's milk (or better, tuber beer!) to ... wash it down? 'Cause somehow I think mog juice and elk tallow don't neccissarily make for good cookie ingredients. But what do I know? I'm a human, not a dwarf. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:56, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-06-12T23:59:52Z

Teres Draconis: /* the sig */

== the sig ==
(heavily edited for noise reduction. I'm going to keep this info for at least a while longer because it's still useful to me.)

*3 tildes (<nowiki>~~~</nowiki>) = [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]]
*4 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) = [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
*5 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki>) = 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== My personal note taking place ==

A lot of the following is just for my own personal note taking stuff. Feel free to add or comment or whatever. I don't mind.
Some of these questions (are) answered in the forums. I'll go check at some point, until then, this is where I'm storing my questions so I don't forget what it was I wanted to ask. ... the personality tags aught to have one for forgetfulness... which would related directly to how long they continue to think about things that have happened. One who was extremely forgetful might not list "slept in the rain" for as long as someone who had a clear recollection of things long past.

I play three versions of the game, randomly... one, the pure, out of the box, only thing messed with are the init files. Another with minor modifications to things like, oh... domestic cats are spayed when captured (affected by the child tags being replaced with [NO_GENDER])... we'll just pretend that they continue to breed like crazy out in the wilds.

---
For my modding purposes (uh, I've turned the smelter into a store to "buy" stuff from) , if anyone knows the TYPE:SUBTYPE:MATERIAL:MATGLOSS tags for any of the following, please please pretty please share them.

ivory, pearl, coral (I don't care if the creatures still don't drop them. I can "buy" it from my smelter, once I figure out the values for them)

containers with stuff in them. (for example, the cage the cow is in, the bag the sand is in, etc.) I figure the contents have to be listed seperately, but how do you get a barrel full of booze, and not booze in one hand and barrel in the other?... though, hey, now I have the idea for a booze-rfall. Must go attempt.

:Sadly, the boozerfall did not work. Nor the blooderfall that I had going in the smelter next to it (I figured, two trials for the price of one)... Even using a smelter to make a waterfall doesn't work. Apparently, any liquid product from the smelter, even if it is not stackable, does not flow out of the smelter, no matter how many you have... and if you unmake the smelter in the attempt to let it flow, it does not, but rather mysteriously vanishes into the unseen ether.... for my trial I used the (seemingly absurd) number 13,263. Strangely, 13263 waters will not overflow the smelter, nor run down the channels next to it, nor anything. They just sit in the smelter, making it nie impossible to use due to the liquid clutter.

:It would have been glorious, though. The plains flooded with Dwarven Ale. The gentle nurse lowering her bucket into the giant lake of booze to tote back to the wounded soldiers. The Generator [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1292-ubermistgenerator] making sweet smelling (and potentially intoxicating) mists... Sadly, this method does not work. I'll see if I can find another...

::Perhaps if I fill a room with 10000 barrels of booze, and then go mod the melting tempurature of the barrels to really low? Or, hmmm... wonder if you can make barrels out of ice? No, it acts like rock, and there are no rock barrels... except for... so maybe, hmmmm... ok! Gonna go try that next!
:::These things all start as "stacks", not flows, so they don't. I've heard mutterings that certain kinds of cave ins can turn fluid stacks into fluid flows but that's it. Whether it works or not, caving in something on top of a smelter containing a million water would be hilarious...--[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

"plant cheeses"... like, say, tofu. ... how do I get the plants to let me make cheese from the extract? Twice I've tried, twice I've failed. I can keep experimenting, but... eh.

-
For the game designers and those who speak to them (go ahead, claim credit, I'm ok with that)... things I'd like to see in future versions...

a way to mod the workshops themselves. For instance, when I tell the manager I want to make 300 cheeses, I don't want the "make cheese" task to fill up the farmer's workshop I've dedicated to my spinner (making plant thread). I can dedicate /who/ works there. I'd like to dedicate the kinds of tasks that can be performed there, too.

:I know I can make a task repeatable... but if I want to save out 100 of my 400 barrels of milk for direct cooking, and don't want to have to forbid them, unforbid them, etc... besides, this was an example... could just as easily be "make stone toys" at the bone carver's shop.

I'd like to see a tag to put on things like sheep that allows for sheering. I want to make wool cloth without having to slaughter my sheep for them. ... and angoras, too. Poor bunnies. Not that I get cloth now... I get leather still, but...

:Probably would have the same problem as milking currently does. Perhaps when they get around to fixing that, they may put this one in as well... if someone makes them think of it.

I'd like to be able to make dyes from animal products. For instance, there are snails that produce a lovely purple color when crushed. No, I'm not with PETA, how did you guess?

I'd like to be able to dye worked cloth. The dress was made with undyed cloth? Should be easy to fix. I'd also like to be able to redye dyed cloth. In real life it would simply add color but I'd be ok with a "paint over" kind of effect.

Maybe mix dyes to make new colors? ... The only way I can think of right now to mod that in is to have a plant for each of them and then smelt two dyes into something else, red and blue make purple like iron and pig iron make steel.

I think bones (raw hides, skulls, shells) should be binable. I mean, really. I have 10 fishbones a cat's skull and a turtle shell that take up the same floorspace as 12 beds?!? Put them in a bin. On raw hides: it rots. Ok, two choices. One: don't let me bin this. I'll still be happy if I can bin the friggin' bones, shells, skulls. Or, two: The rot spreads to everything it touches, and, since it's "in" something, it produces miasma. Even if the bin is outside. I don't think that "rat remains" and "dog chunks" and such should be binable. I mean, ew. Also, those don't go into the workshop stockpiles for processing. At least, not in /my/ fortresses. ... again, ew.

... One or two last thoughts before I actually post this...

Is there a way to make a mixed group of creatures that spawn together? I mean, take your average herd in Africa. You're going to have zebras and elephants and girraffs and several other things besides, often all walking together. Sure, often you find a herd of just elephants, but often you'll find one or two in a mix of other things as well. And flocks of birds who travel with them, too.

I'm considering adding a new medium-heavy mod that accounts for things like mixed herds, beehives (worker bees, queen bee, guard bees), maybe beemen... though antmen could use this, too. Antmen could maybe have pet Giant Aphids (who, storywise they milk but who aren't tamable to humanoids)...

And, thirdly (I know I said one or two)... feralization. I can keep my tame but unclaimed pets mostly in one area by defining it as a meeting zone... but if I don't... and if they wander off (even if they don't)... I think that if they don't see one of their caretakers for, oh, two seasons (maybe less... maybe a tag that says how quickly?)... they should feralize. Easy way is just to make them go back to being the wild version of that creature. If it's in the wrong biome... uh, oops? Might die sooner? Might get eaten by a grue, I mean, uh... Another way is to make a whole other classification (wild, tame, feral)... maybe it adjusts how aggressive it is. Maybe not. Maybe it adjusts how easily it goes back to being tame. Would this tag be passed on to it's young? Or would the young just be "wild" to start with? If you were near another outpost, city or whatever, would you have their feral creatures start wandering into your area on occasion? Just what you need, the neighbor's feral dragon has decided your keep is it's new home!

Ok, Done. I'll edit and such later, and reduce the noise as I get answers. Or, you know, you can if you like. Whatever.

-jaz

: I would really really like to see a little option pop up. When everything pauses and recenters because the miners struck something new on a level, and it says ... whatever it says... I'd like there to be a (d)ig, (s)trip, (f)orbid option.
::(d)ig would just dig the squares you've already designated.
::(s)trip would designate for mining squares of that type, on that level, /as they are discovered/, even if they aren't currently designated. If it's done "as discovered", you won't neccissarily know how much you're getting until it's done, thus maintaining the mystery. You should still be able to undesignate squares that have been designated automatically.
::(f)orbid would un-designate squares of that type, on that level, as they are discovered.
:That way I don't have my newbie miner failing the attempt to mine out the diamonds. I can just leave them there for later. And if I have 4 levels of mining going on, I can't watch every level all the time to see if a new deposite of something already mentioned shows up, or whatever... I can just say "no, not that" as it's discovered, and all the miners know to leave it, and all other instances of it, alone.

== Noise Reduction (Should I call this "[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] sets me straight" ?? *Teases*) ==
Things that got answered... They will get deleted out all together at some point as I don't want this talks page to be 40 bajillion pages long.

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] distroyed my dreams of milkable cows via the [milkable:33333] tag on 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I cried. Bad you, making girls cry. He also explained on 17:23, 21 May 2009 (UTC) that "Purring Maggots are VERMIN. Read vermin as Item, because that is what they are in game terms. Items that can teleport. Cows, however, are not items. And it is broken."
:I know it's broken. I think /everyone/ knows its broken... I just... I... there you go making me cry again. But thank you for explaining about vermin in short words I can understand. I get it now, I just don't want to. Another question, though... Why are vermin in the creatures raws if they're not creatures? Shouldn't they be in their own raws if they're items?
:And... verminous cows... heee! Oh, sorry, just a thought. (Because yes, I'd trade being able to eat them and get leather from them for the ability to milk them every season.) -- jaz
::Personal cow modding complete. Cows became Lulu, because it amused me to find that "genetic testing of the Dwarf Lulu breed [...] found them to be a mix of European cattle, zebu and yak." New vermin added : Dairy Cow. -- [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:31, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

-
Name and/or data is in contention....

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] (apparently did not tell) me there will be a way of saying "creature A and creature B can breed together to make creature C" in the next release. I mean, where do you think mules come from? I have several donkies of both genders, I have several horses of both genders... every once in a while, instead of getting a donkey foal or a horse foal, I (will, next release) be getting a mule foal... and no, mules still can't breed (IRL, anyways. We'll see about IG).

:Will there also be a way of preventing such things? I mean, if I keep my horses in one vault and my donkies in another, am I going to get a whole seasons worth of foaling turned into mules? -- the ever curious [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]

::I never said that.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:23, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::: It was your sig after the "That will be coming next release" comment. Was that in response to something else? I appologise for attributing to you something you did not say or imply. - jaz

-

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] suggested I look on/post to the forums for my ideas and wants, game wise... apparently quite a few of them were already mentioned. I've removed some from my list. Not that I think they're neccsissarly upcoming, but well, noise reduction. I've posted some already, and some I don't even know how to search for the thread. Then again, worst is worst, someone calls me an idiot and points to the 47 other threads that I'm repeating. I'll only feel rejected and foolish. What's so wrong with that? ... "Teres Draconis ... is concerned about rejection and ridicule." ... Oh, right. Cry me a river. Do it anyways, Jaz.
... doing, doing, done. --[[User:Teres Draconis|-- jaz]] 00:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:You're a noise one, aren't you. It's ok, just lurk around the forum for a while. Use search, which is a little odd, until you realize that there is two different search boxes.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:09, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== Chalk & whinging ==

Nice work, very thorough - but slow down, just for now. On the Main Page discussion, folk are trying to decide whether/how to structure the guidelines, what constitutes "an article" - and they should all be along the same lines. I like your effort - don't want to see it get undone to conform to any new guidelines.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:Thanks! I'll go see if I can find that discussion and maybe point to that in a grab for attention and prase. Yes, the gems. *teases* --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 08:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::If you want to add some new information to a page, it can be done without deleting everything that is already on it. I suggest you stick to minor improvements rather than complete rewritings. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::But the only thing chalk had on it before was, like, three bits of information. 1) it was a sedementary layer stone, 2) i could be used as flux, and 3) it had lots of gems/ore that could be found in it. The first two data bits are still there, and the third one is heavily expanded to the point of actually being informative if someone wants to know "well, what can I find?"
:::Meh, maybe I should put in a redirect here to the convo on the main page's talk tab. ... Not entirely sure how to do that yet, but I know of at least three places where I can find examples so... meh.
::::[[Talk:Main Page]] --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::::P.S. You're a little overenthusiastic. Chill. Stick to the small things. When you understand how things run around here, THEN start rewriting crap. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:: There was a big long thing here that, upon going away for an hour, and then coming back and reading it again, I realised was mostly whining and "poor me" and "nobody understands me"... So I didn't post it, because this is not the place for that. I have a blog (which I never use) if I want to whine.

::I will simply say that I posted /one/ page (and lots of talk, 'cause I'm chatty), and asked for responses. I got several before I could even start on the next page, all of which asked me to hold off, or slow down, or similar. So I'm holding off, and... ok, not slowing down, exactly... but I'll do the work, and keep it for my own use, and if people say "hey, that was good, do it again" I can, and if they say "Change it this way" I /maybe/ can, and if they don't say anything, I can keep keeping it to myself, unless someone asks for a copy of my work, in which case, I can do that, too. (See, I have a "can do" attitude!)

::I am done talking about talking about it. I'm mostly done talking about it directly. Time for me to play the game or get off the computer. Besides. I have milkable cows now. My life is complete. =) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

::: See, there's something that is pure "addition", not rewriting - milkable cows. Make a new article. Be terse and factual, "how it's done". Be objective, no "I". Link from [[cow]]s and [[milk]] - that's more the sort of thing that the wiki needs.
:::The problem with the chalk rewrite/reformat is that you completely changed a page that had scores of other related pages that used the ''identical'' format. You also, by your own admission, "copied and pasted" - wiki's don't like redundant info if they can avoid it, and certainly not ''that'' much. If someone wants to know all about a specific gem, they go to the article on that gem, or failing that then the [[gem]] page, not the page on the stone where that gem is found along with many, many others.
:::After you are here a while, you'll get a feel for the overall style - and can branch out from there.

:::: I hear you. I'll... be patient. And, my milkable cows are a mod, and kinda a cobbled one at that. You can't buy them from the embark screen (though I had traders bring them on the first visit... of course, that doesn't help much, since it can't be /tame/ and milked. Argh! Who came up with this mess?!? TOADY!!!), they teleport, and my cats keep killing the wild ones. I'm working on it, ok? But I can milk them. And they're called cows. Once you know that, it should be easy to figure out what I did. Not a hard mod at all. -- [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

== Naming Conventions ==

(PS - And, I gotta ask - why "jaz" when you just signed up as a User with TD? Why not just sign up with jaz to begin with?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

: Uh, 'cause it's my name? And, as far as the web is concerned, I am Teres Draconis. ... last week, <name redacted> did a search for me, 'cause she's a dope and couldn't remember some minor detail about something completely irrelevant to this conversation. She came up with some orchid sites competely unrelated to how I got my name, and almost everything else was in some way related to me. I use it because it helps people find me, to know that it's me and not some /other/ Jazlyn. ('cause, you know, it's a /really/ common name. *snerk*) Two years ago, /everything/ that came up in a google search for Teres Draconis would have been about orchids or me. And I'm no delicate flower. Sadly.

Some random stuff (you probably don't care about) reguarding my nick and where it comes from...

:"Teres" is latin for "rounded, polished, smooth, fine, elegant" (things I aspire to be... and something a dragon would love, since it's both gem related and indicates a certain level of grandois... ishness... oif. Yep, I'm not there, yet.)

: Teres Draconis was my first dragon type character. I have used her name for every other genre in which I played a dragon, because the character herself was familiar to me, leaving only the variances of this game vs that one to learn. Much easier (for me) to learn the rules that way. (I use this technique alot. "Tessi" is almost always the name of a kinder/half-elf/small-cute-humanoid-thief character the first time I play a game, "Wudi" for small cute felines, etc.) ((Wudi=extreme cuteness, usually only found in kittens, puppies and those babies you love. Wudi overdose is often diagnosed by people saying such absurd things as "You're a kitty! Yes you are!" to some poor, patiently forbearing feline awaiting rescue or escape, or some other such context-applicable drivel.))

::Yeah, that makes me want to puke. The cute overload. When people do that... It's just, augh. Why. Not that I don't, just not when I'm busy doing things. You know, the fey moods? Yeah. I do that. Not quite, but yeah. Lots of fun. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:39, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:I use Teres Draconis because it makes it easier to remember user names if I only have one that I use everywhere I go.... I actually have more than that, because some places (like, oh, my work, school, bank, horticulture society) require that usernames follow their naming conventions. Makes it easier for whoever to find me in the database if they don't have to remember that I go by this funny name, and joe smith goes by that one.... everyone goes by something in their real names, or by some serial code, or whatever. I tend to forget those more, even when I use them twice a day, three days a week for 9 weeks at a time.

So, how did you come up with /your/ name? (open to all, not just [[User:Albedo|Albedo]])

::P.S. I love etymology, and the related field of where names come from (though I never remember what that's called)... and since online you get to choose your own name, it makes it much more personal... and could potentially tell a lot about who you are. If nothing else, it might just say you're fairly conventional (read:uncreative *teases*) in your naming coventions. (There's a place for everything, even convention. But if the name you get to choose for yourself doesn't say /anything/ about you... ) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] (and even the fact that I use /that/ nickname says something about me)

:::Hmm.. mines something unusual I'd say. (N9103) It's both a mistake and a memory. One of the first game-related things I ever bought for myself (around 1996) was a professionally done editor for Red Alert(1) called Control Center. My Westwood online account for the game followed some time after that, when I had gotten bored with trying new modifications to the game settings. This was probably my first ever handle, though I had lurked on many a forum well enough to know that anonymity is preferable to identity, so rather than trying to find a way to anonymize my name, I simply went with the last set of registration characters for the Control Center program.... Here's the mistake part: About 5 years later, I was breaking down my game boxes and jewelcases into a binder, condensing the 100 or so games I had by that point into a fraction of the size, (took up an entire bookshelf at the time!); And turns out, that the last 5 of my registration code wasn't N9103, it was N9031. Had a bit of a laugh at myself for my mistake, but I've stuck with it ever since, for it's both anonymous and identifying. Seen very few use such an odd and seemingly random name, but trying to search for it will almost always turn up hundreds of other things, from computer chips and resistors, to a boat prop. (last time I bothered checking anyways.. about 3 years ago.) For this Wiki though, I've replaced the username with my own, as this is something I'm happy to be a part of. (I've got another username that's all over the place as well, but I'll leave that for another time.) -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

:::: Ah-ha! I'm /not/ the only one. =) (I have a friend who goes by "Edward" online. His name is Kristianos. "Edward" is apparently a bit more anonymous than some other names. =P ) ... I stopped using A37139 as my catch-all user name about ten years ago because I kept having people ignore my stuff as bot generated. Bots that are trying to pretend to be people tend to have names like "Edward" these days, so maybe I can go back to using it, if I ever outgrow Teres. - 17:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:Well, it was the first name of one of my very, ''very'' first RP characters from "back in the day" (can you say "Traveler"?) Dr. Albedo Lightrock, combat librarian. And since it has other meanings - percentage of light reflected, etc etc - it seems to work. Nothing beyond that - not the old anthopomorphic comic (tho' that had a quality to it) nor the newer one by the same name. Nothing more than that.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 12:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::OMG! [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveller_(role-playing_game) Traveler!] I haven't played that in ... forever! One of the (but not /the/) first Teres incarnations was a [http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Droyne Droyne.] It was odd having em not be a "her" until the humans on the ship insisted ey pick a gender with which to identify. Good times! Thank you! - 17:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey Jaz, do you know you can use [[Special:Preferences]] to change your signature to Jaz instead of your login name? That way you get auto signature that says what you want it to say.
PS, I also had some "discussions" when I first joined up regarding totally re-organising the [[category:stones]] to actually be heirarchial. Apparently it was not appreceiated![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:55, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
: Actually, I did know, and that's how I do it now. But thanks for sharing! (It took me a while to figure out, so that was nice of you to tell me!) -[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

== Your user [[User:Teres Draconis|page]] ==

I hope you don't mind, I put your personal description in the tags that make it look like it's in-game.
You can revert from the history tab if that's not what you were getting at... and my appologies in advance if you don't want other people editing your user page.

BTW, I'm with you on [[chert]] etc being their own wiki pages.

The fora aren't for the feint-hearted. I don't think I've actually posted. Isn't it increadible that a single developer has created such a massive ascii game with such a huge community... and he gives it away free because "it's still a beta"? Aparently it's been worth his while thought!
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 10:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

:Thanks! I don't actually know html all that well. Most of what I do know I've learned from playing with the wiki. Can you tell me how to get it to change to text colors midstream without putting the rest of the page into that format? I tried but I couldn't figure it out. Though it may have been the carriage return/line feeds that did it. The only other thing I can think of is to put it at the bottom, so that there isn't anything else to /be/ affected, but... I don't wanna. *pout* I had to revert it to fix the problem instead of just being able to add the apropriate tags, and that makes me feel ignorant and foolish and frustrated to the point I don't even want to update the actual body of information like I usually do. Of course, I'm also running out of time, today, so ... bleh. I'll play with it more next time. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:32, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

== Have a cookie ==

Thank you all for reading/typing/chatting/editing. You've been so good to me. Have a cookie.

:[ITEM_FOOD:ITEM_FOOD_COOKIE]
:[NAME:cookie]
:[LEVEL:4]

This is a stack of 23 finely-prepared dwarven sugar cookie. The ingredients are superiorly minced dwarven wheat flour, finely minced mog juice, masterfully minced elk tallow and exceptionally minced dwarven sugar.

... And maybe a mug of cow's milk (or better, tuber beer!) to ... wash it down? 'Cause somehow I think mog juice and elk tallow don't neccissarily make for good cookie ingredients. But what do I know? I'm a human, not a dwarf. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:56, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-06-12T23:56:36Z

Teres Draconis: cookies

== the sig ==
(heavily edited for noise reduction. I'm going to keep this info for at least a while longer because it's useful to me.)

EXAMPLE: Three![[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] Four![[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:07, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Five!17:07, 21 May 2009 (UTC). Very cool, no?

:You are delightfully strange. I like you. ... just, out of curiousity... how did you get it to do that? ... And why would you want to? - jaz

::It is the amount of tildes.
*3 tildes (<nowiki>~~~</nowiki>) [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]]
*4 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
*5 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki>) 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::: Now you yelling out numbers actually makes sense. I get it... so I shall experiment. What happens at one, two and six?
:::::<Experiment redacted to reduce noise>
:::The scientific world will be in awe. I know I am. (What a bummer. Couldn't it just, like, throw up a thing that says "Over tildified?" That would be amusing, at least.) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]
:::I am somewhat amused by the fact that "jaz" and "<nowiki>~~~</nowiki>" have the same number of characters. So it's not like typing will be longer, just... different.
::Oh, and thanks. You forgot a {{k|z}} after the {{k|p}}. Here, try this: 
{{k|v}}>{{k|p}}>{{k|z}}>{{k|Enter}} [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Oh, you did {{k|u}}. alright, that looks right. Less capitals, there are no capitals in that sequence.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 01:53, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

== My personal note taking place ==

A lot of the following is just for my own personal note taking stuff. Feel free to add or comment or whatever. I don't mind.
Some of these questions (are) answered in the forums. I'll go check at some point, until then, this is where I'm storing my questions so I don't forget what it was I wanted to ask. ... the personality tags aught to have one for forgetfulness... which would related directly to how long they continue to think about things that have happened. One who was extremely forgetful might not list "slept in the rain" for as long as someone who had a clear recollection of things long past.

I play three versions of the game, randomly... one, the pure, out of the box, only thing messed with are the init files. Another with minor modifications to things like, oh... domestic cats are spayed when captured (affected by the child tags being replaced with [NO_GENDER])... we'll just pretend that they continue to breed like crazy out in the wilds.

---
For my modding purposes (uh, I've turned the smelter into a store to "buy" stuff from) , if anyone knows the TYPE:SUBTYPE:MATERIAL:MATGLOSS tags for any of the following, please please pretty please share them.

ivory, pearl, coral (I don't care if the creatures still don't drop them. I can "buy" it from my smelter, once I figure out the values for them)

containers with stuff in them. (for example, the cage the cow is in, the bag the sand is in, etc.) I figure the contents have to be listed seperately, but how do you get a barrel full of booze, and not booze in one hand and barrel in the other?... though, hey, now I have the idea for a booze-rfall. Must go attempt.

:Sadly, the boozerfall did not work. Nor the blooderfall that I had going in the smelter next to it (I figured, two trials for the price of one)... Even using a smelter to make a waterfall doesn't work. Apparently, any liquid product from the smelter, even if it is not stackable, does not flow out of the smelter, no matter how many you have... and if you unmake the smelter in the attempt to let it flow, it does not, but rather mysteriously vanishes into the unseen ether.... for my trial I used the (seemingly absurd) number 13,263. Strangely, 13263 waters will not overflow the smelter, nor run down the channels next to it, nor anything. They just sit in the smelter, making it nie impossible to use due to the liquid clutter.

:It would have been glorious, though. The plains flooded with Dwarven Ale. The gentle nurse lowering her bucket into the giant lake of booze to tote back to the wounded soldiers. The Generator [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1292-ubermistgenerator] making sweet smelling (and potentially intoxicating) mists... Sadly, this method does not work. I'll see if I can find another...

::Perhaps if I fill a room with 10000 barrels of booze, and then go mod the melting tempurature of the barrels to really low? Or, hmmm... wonder if you can make barrels out of ice? No, it acts like rock, and there are no rock barrels... except for... so maybe, hmmmm... ok! Gonna go try that next!
:::These things all start as "stacks", not flows, so they don't. I've heard mutterings that certain kinds of cave ins can turn fluid stacks into fluid flows but that's it. Whether it works or not, caving in something on top of a smelter containing a million water would be hilarious...--[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

"plant cheeses"... like, say, tofu. ... how do I get the plants to let me make cheese from the extract? Twice I've tried, twice I've failed. I can keep experimenting, but... eh.

-
For the game designers and those who speak to them (go ahead, claim credit, I'm ok with that)... things I'd like to see in future versions...

a way to mod the workshops themselves. For instance, when I tell the manager I want to make 300 cheeses, I don't want the "make cheese" task to fill up the farmer's workshop I've dedicated to my spinner (making plant thread). I can dedicate /who/ works there. I'd like to dedicate the kinds of tasks that can be performed there, too.

:I know I can make a task repeatable... but if I want to save out 100 of my 400 barrels of milk for direct cooking, and don't want to have to forbid them, unforbid them, etc... besides, this was an example... could just as easily be "make stone toys" at the bone carver's shop.

I'd like to see a tag to put on things like sheep that allows for sheering. I want to make wool cloth without having to slaughter my sheep for them. ... and angoras, too. Poor bunnies. Not that I get cloth now... I get leather still, but...

:Probably would have the same problem as milking currently does. Perhaps when they get around to fixing that, they may put this one in as well... if someone makes them think of it.

I'd like to be able to make dyes from animal products. For instance, there are snails that produce a lovely purple color when crushed. No, I'm not with PETA, how did you guess?

I'd like to be able to dye worked cloth. The dress was made with undyed cloth? Should be easy to fix. I'd also like to be able to redye dyed cloth. In real life it would simply add color but I'd be ok with a "paint over" kind of effect.

Maybe mix dyes to make new colors? ... The only way I can think of right now to mod that in is to have a plant for each of them and then smelt two dyes into something else, red and blue make purple like iron and pig iron make steel.

I think bones (raw hides, skulls, shells) should be binable. I mean, really. I have 10 fishbones a cat's skull and a turtle shell that take up the same floorspace as 12 beds?!? Put them in a bin. On raw hides: it rots. Ok, two choices. One: don't let me bin this. I'll still be happy if I can bin the friggin' bones, shells, skulls. Or, two: The rot spreads to everything it touches, and, since it's "in" something, it produces miasma. Even if the bin is outside. I don't think that "rat remains" and "dog chunks" and such should be binable. I mean, ew. Also, those don't go into the workshop stockpiles for processing. At least, not in /my/ fortresses. ... again, ew.

... One or two last thoughts before I actually post this...

Is there a way to make a mixed group of creatures that spawn together? I mean, take your average herd in Africa. You're going to have zebras and elephants and girraffs and several other things besides, often all walking together. Sure, often you find a herd of just elephants, but often you'll find one or two in a mix of other things as well. And flocks of birds who travel with them, too.

I'm considering adding a new medium-heavy mod that accounts for things like mixed herds, beehives (worker bees, queen bee, guard bees), maybe beemen... though antmen could use this, too. Antmen could maybe have pet Giant Aphids (who, storywise they milk but who aren't tamable to humanoids)...

And, thirdly (I know I said one or two)... feralization. I can keep my tame but unclaimed pets mostly in one area by defining it as a meeting zone... but if I don't... and if they wander off (even if they don't)... I think that if they don't see one of their caretakers for, oh, two seasons (maybe less... maybe a tag that says how quickly?)... they should feralize. Easy way is just to make them go back to being the wild version of that creature. If it's in the wrong biome... uh, oops? Might die sooner? Might get eaten by a grue, I mean, uh... Another way is to make a whole other classification (wild, tame, feral)... maybe it adjusts how aggressive it is. Maybe not. Maybe it adjusts how easily it goes back to being tame. Would this tag be passed on to it's young? Or would the young just be "wild" to start with? If you were near another outpost, city or whatever, would you have their feral creatures start wandering into your area on occasion? Just what you need, the neighbor's feral dragon has decided your keep is it's new home!

Ok, Done. I'll edit and such later, and reduce the noise as I get answers. Or, you know, you can if you like. Whatever.

-jaz

: I would really really like to see a little option pop up. When everything pauses and recenters because the miners struck something new on a level, and it says ... whatever it says... I'd like there to be a (d)ig, (s)trip, (f)orbid option.
::(d)ig would just dig the squares you've already designated.
::(s)trip would designate for mining squares of that type, on that level, /as they are discovered/, even if they aren't currently designated. If it's done "as discovered", you won't neccissarily know how much you're getting until it's done, thus maintaining the mystery. You should still be able to undesignate squares that have been designated automatically.
::(f)orbid would un-designate squares of that type, on that level, as they are discovered.
:That way I don't have my newbie miner failing the attempt to mine out the diamonds. I can just leave them there for later. And if I have 4 levels of mining going on, I can't watch every level all the time to see if a new deposite of something already mentioned shows up, or whatever... I can just say "no, not that" as it's discovered, and all the miners know to leave it, and all other instances of it, alone.

== Noise Reduction (Should I call this "[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] sets me straight" ?? *Teases*) ==
Things that got answered... They will get deleted out all together at some point as I don't want this talks page to be 40 bajillion pages long.

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] distroyed my dreams of milkable cows via the [milkable:33333] tag on 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I cried. Bad you, making girls cry. He also explained on 17:23, 21 May 2009 (UTC) that "Purring Maggots are VERMIN. Read vermin as Item, because that is what they are in game terms. Items that can teleport. Cows, however, are not items. And it is broken."
:I know it's broken. I think /everyone/ knows its broken... I just... I... there you go making me cry again. But thank you for explaining about vermin in short words I can understand. I get it now, I just don't want to. Another question, though... Why are vermin in the creatures raws if they're not creatures? Shouldn't they be in their own raws if they're items?
:And... verminous cows... heee! Oh, sorry, just a thought. (Because yes, I'd trade being able to eat them and get leather from them for the ability to milk them every season.) -- jaz
::Personal cow modding complete. Cows became Lulu, because it amused me to find that "genetic testing of the Dwarf Lulu breed [...] found them to be a mix of European cattle, zebu and yak." New vermin added : Dairy Cow. -- [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:31, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

-
Name and/or data is in contention....

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] (apparently did not tell) me there will be a way of saying "creature A and creature B can breed together to make creature C" in the next release. I mean, where do you think mules come from? I have several donkies of both genders, I have several horses of both genders... every once in a while, instead of getting a donkey foal or a horse foal, I (will, next release) be getting a mule foal... and no, mules still can't breed (IRL, anyways. We'll see about IG).

:Will there also be a way of preventing such things? I mean, if I keep my horses in one vault and my donkies in another, am I going to get a whole seasons worth of foaling turned into mules? -- the ever curious [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]

::I never said that.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:23, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::: It was your sig after the "That will be coming next release" comment. Was that in response to something else? I appologise for attributing to you something you did not say or imply. - jaz

-

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] suggested I look on/post to the forums for my ideas and wants, game wise... apparently quite a few of them were already mentioned. I've removed some from my list. Not that I think they're neccsissarly upcoming, but well, noise reduction. I've posted some already, and some I don't even know how to search for the thread. Then again, worst is worst, someone calls me an idiot and points to the 47 other threads that I'm repeating. I'll only feel rejected and foolish. What's so wrong with that? ... "Teres Draconis ... is concerned about rejection and ridicule." ... Oh, right. Cry me a river. Do it anyways, Jaz.
... doing, doing, done. --[[User:Teres Draconis|-- jaz]] 00:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:You're a noise one, aren't you. It's ok, just lurk around the forum for a while. Use search, which is a little odd, until you realize that there is two different search boxes.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:09, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== Chalk & whinging ==

Nice work, very thorough - but slow down, just for now. On the Main Page discussion, folk are trying to decide whether/how to structure the guidelines, what constitutes "an article" - and they should all be along the same lines. I like your effort - don't want to see it get undone to conform to any new guidelines.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:Thanks! I'll go see if I can find that discussion and maybe point to that in a grab for attention and prase. Yes, the gems. *teases* --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 08:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::If you want to add some new information to a page, it can be done without deleting everything that is already on it. I suggest you stick to minor improvements rather than complete rewritings. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::But the only thing chalk had on it before was, like, three bits of information. 1) it was a sedementary layer stone, 2) i could be used as flux, and 3) it had lots of gems/ore that could be found in it. The first two data bits are still there, and the third one is heavily expanded to the point of actually being informative if someone wants to know "well, what can I find?"
:::Meh, maybe I should put in a redirect here to the convo on the main page's talk tab. ... Not entirely sure how to do that yet, but I know of at least three places where I can find examples so... meh.
::::[[Talk:Main Page]] --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::::P.S. You're a little overenthusiastic. Chill. Stick to the small things. When you understand how things run around here, THEN start rewriting crap. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:: There was a big long thing here that, upon going away for an hour, and then coming back and reading it again, I realised was mostly whining and "poor me" and "nobody understands me"... So I didn't post it, because this is not the place for that. I have a blog (which I never use) if I want to whine.

::I will simply say that I posted /one/ page (and lots of talk, 'cause I'm chatty), and asked for responses. I got several before I could even start on the next page, all of which asked me to hold off, or slow down, or similar. So I'm holding off, and... ok, not slowing down, exactly... but I'll do the work, and keep it for my own use, and if people say "hey, that was good, do it again" I can, and if they say "Change it this way" I /maybe/ can, and if they don't say anything, I can keep keeping it to myself, unless someone asks for a copy of my work, in which case, I can do that, too. (See, I have a "can do" attitude!)

::I am done talking about talking about it. I'm mostly done talking about it directly. Time for me to play the game or get off the computer. Besides. I have milkable cows now. My life is complete. =) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

::: See, there's something that is pure "addition", not rewriting - milkable cows. Make a new article. Be terse and factual, "how it's done". Be objective, no "I". Link from [[cow]]s and [[milk]] - that's more the sort of thing that the wiki needs.
:::The problem with the chalk rewrite/reformat is that you completely changed a page that had scores of other related pages that used the ''identical'' format. You also, by your own admission, "copied and pasted" - wiki's don't like redundant info if they can avoid it, and certainly not ''that'' much. If someone wants to know all about a specific gem, they go to the article on that gem, or failing that then the [[gem]] page, not the page on the stone where that gem is found along with many, many others.
:::After you are here a while, you'll get a feel for the overall style - and can branch out from there.

:::: I hear you. I'll... be patient. And, my milkable cows are a mod, and kinda a cobbled one at that. You can't buy them from the embark screen (though I had traders bring them on the first visit... of course, that doesn't help much, since it can't be /tame/ and milked. Argh! Who came up with this mess?!? TOADY!!!), they teleport, and my cats keep killing the wild ones. I'm working on it, ok? But I can milk them. And they're called cows. Once you know that, it should be easy to figure out what I did. Not a hard mod at all. -- [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

== Naming Conventions ==

(PS - And, I gotta ask - why "jaz" when you just signed up as a User with TD? Why not just sign up with jaz to begin with?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

: Uh, 'cause it's my name? And, as far as the web is concerned, I am Teres Draconis. ... last week, <name redacted> did a search for me, 'cause she's a dope and couldn't remember some minor detail about something completely irrelevant to this conversation. She came up with some orchid sites competely unrelated to how I got my name, and almost everything else was in some way related to me. I use it because it helps people find me, to know that it's me and not some /other/ Jazlyn. ('cause, you know, it's a /really/ common name. *snerk*) Two years ago, /everything/ that came up in a google search for Teres Draconis would have been about orchids or me. And I'm no delicate flower. Sadly.

Some random stuff (you probably don't care about) reguarding my nick and where it comes from...

:"Teres" is latin for "rounded, polished, smooth, fine, elegant" (things I aspire to be... and something a dragon would love, since it's both gem related and indicates a certain level of grandois... ishness... oif. Yep, I'm not there, yet.)

: Teres Draconis was my first dragon type character. I have used her name for every other genre in which I played a dragon, because the character herself was familiar to me, leaving only the variances of this game vs that one to learn. Much easier (for me) to learn the rules that way. (I use this technique alot. "Tessi" is almost always the name of a kinder/half-elf/small-cute-humanoid-thief character the first time I play a game, "Wudi" for small cute felines, etc.) ((Wudi=extreme cuteness, usually only found in kittens, puppies and those babies you love. Wudi overdose is often diagnosed by people saying such absurd things as "You're a kitty! Yes you are!" to some poor, patiently forbearing feline awaiting rescue or escape, or some other such context-applicable drivel.))

::Yeah, that makes me want to puke. The cute overload. When people do that... It's just, augh. Why. Not that I don't, just not when I'm busy doing things. You know, the fey moods? Yeah. I do that. Not quite, but yeah. Lots of fun. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:39, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:I use Teres Draconis because it makes it easier to remember user names if I only have one that I use everywhere I go.... I actually have more than that, because some places (like, oh, my work, school, bank, horticulture society) require that usernames follow their naming conventions. Makes it easier for whoever to find me in the database if they don't have to remember that I go by this funny name, and joe smith goes by that one.... everyone goes by something in their real names, or by some serial code, or whatever. I tend to forget those more, even when I use them twice a day, three days a week for 9 weeks at a time.

So, how did you come up with /your/ name? (open to all, not just [[User:Albedo|Albedo]])

::P.S. I love etymology, and the related field of where names come from (though I never remember what that's called)... and since online you get to choose your own name, it makes it much more personal... and could potentially tell a lot about who you are. If nothing else, it might just say you're fairly conventional (read:uncreative *teases*) in your naming coventions. (There's a place for everything, even convention. But if the name you get to choose for yourself doesn't say /anything/ about you... ) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] (and even the fact that I use /that/ nickname says something about me)

:::Hmm.. mines something unusual I'd say. (N9103) It's both a mistake and a memory. One of the first game-related things I ever bought for myself (around 1996) was a professionally done editor for Red Alert(1) called Control Center. My Westwood online account for the game followed some time after that, when I had gotten bored with trying new modifications to the game settings. This was probably my first ever handle, though I had lurked on many a forum well enough to know that anonymity is preferable to identity, so rather than trying to find a way to anonymize my name, I simply went with the last set of registration characters for the Control Center program.... Here's the mistake part: About 5 years later, I was breaking down my game boxes and jewelcases into a binder, condensing the 100 or so games I had by that point into a fraction of the size, (took up an entire bookshelf at the time!); And turns out, that the last 5 of my registration code wasn't N9103, it was N9031. Had a bit of a laugh at myself for my mistake, but I've stuck with it ever since, for it's both anonymous and identifying. Seen very few use such an odd and seemingly random name, but trying to search for it will almost always turn up hundreds of other things, from computer chips and resistors, to a boat prop. (last time I bothered checking anyways.. about 3 years ago.) For this Wiki though, I've replaced the username with my own, as this is something I'm happy to be a part of. (I've got another username that's all over the place as well, but I'll leave that for another time.) -[[User:N9103|Edward]]

:::: Ah-ha! I'm /not/ the only one. =) (I have a friend who goes by "Edward" online. His name is Kristianos. "Edward" is apparently a bit more anonymous than some other names. =P ) ... I stopped using A37139 as my catch-all user name about ten years ago because I kept having people ignore my stuff as bot generated. Bots that are trying to pretend to be people tend to have names like "Edward" these days, so maybe I can go back to using it, if I ever outgrow Teres. - 17:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:Well, it was the first name of one of my very, ''very'' first RP characters from "back in the day" (can you say "Traveler"?) Dr. Albedo Lightrock, combat librarian. And since it has other meanings - percentage of light reflected, etc etc - it seems to work. Nothing beyond that - not the old anthopomorphic comic (tho' that had a quality to it) nor the newer one by the same name. Nothing more than that.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 12:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::OMG! [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveller_(role-playing_game) Traveler!] I haven't played that in ... forever! One of the (but not /the/) first Teres incarnations was a [http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Droyne Droyne.] It was odd having em not be a "her" until the humans on the ship insisted ey pick a gender with which to identify. Good times! Thank you! - 17:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey Jaz, do you know you can use [[Special:Preferences]] to change your signature to Jaz instead of your login name? That way you get auto signature that says what you want it to say.
PS, I also had some "discussions" when I first joined up regarding totally re-organising the [[category:stones]] to actually be heirarchial. Apparently it was not appreceiated![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:55, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
: Actually, I did know, and that's how I do it now. But thanks for sharing! (It took me a while to figure out, so that was nice of you to tell me!) -[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

== Your user [[User:Teres Draconis|page]] ==

I hope you don't mind, I put your personal description in the tags that make it look like it's in-game.
You can revert from the history tab if that's not what you were getting at... and my appologies in advance if you don't want other people editing your user page.

BTW, I'm with you on [[chert]] etc being their own wiki pages.

The fora aren't for the feint-hearted. I don't think I've actually posted. Isn't it increadible that a single developer has created such a massive ascii game with such a huge community... and he gives it away free because "it's still a beta"? Aparently it's been worth his while thought!
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 10:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

:Thanks! I don't actually know html all that well. Most of what I do know I've learned from playing with the wiki. Can you tell me how to get it to change to text colors midstream without putting the rest of the page into that format? I tried but I couldn't figure it out. Though it may have been the carriage return/line feeds that did it. The only other thing I can think of is to put it at the bottom, so that there isn't anything else to /be/ affected, but... I don't wanna. *pout* I had to revert it to fix the problem instead of just being able to add the apropriate tags, and that makes me feel ignorant and foolish and frustrated to the point I don't even want to update the actual body of information like I usually do. Of course, I'm also running out of time, today, so ... bleh. I'll play with it more next time. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:32, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

== Have a cookie ==

Thank you all for reading/typing/chatting/editing. You've been so good to me. Have a cookie.

:[ITEM_FOOD:ITEM_FOOD_COOKIE]
:[NAME:cookie]
:[LEVEL:4]

This is a stack of 23 finely-prepared dwarven sugar cookie. The ingredients are superiorly minced dwarven wheat flour, finely minced mog juice, masterfully minced elk tallow and exceptionally minced dwarven sugar.

... And maybe a mug of cow's milk (or better, tuber beer!) to ... wash it down? 'Cause somehow I think mog juice and elk tallow don't neccissarily make for good cookie ingredients. But what do I know? I'm a human, not a dwarf. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:56, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-06-12T23:32:28Z

Teres Draconis: /* Your user page */

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-06-12T23:25:04Z

Teres Draconis: /* Naming Conventions */

User:Teres Draconis

2009-06-12T23:12:25Z

Teres Draconis: /* Wiki */ update

== {{K|u}} -> Teres Draconis -> {{K|v}} -> {{K|Enter}} ==

 
<div style="background: black; width: 50em;">

Teres Draconis has been quite content lately. She has been satisfied at work lately. She was comforted by a friend lately. She ate a wonderful meal lately. She got in a fight lately. She has slept in a fine bedroom lately. She has admired own fine window lately. She was comforted by a wonderful creature in a cage lately.
She is romanticly involved with <message redacted>. She is a casual worshiper of Mari the Chalice of Life.
She is a citizen of the United States. She is a member of <message redacted>.
Teres Draconis likes sandy loam, lapis lazuli, silver, the color green, elk leather, dogs for their loyalty and dragons for their terrible majesty. When possible, she prefers to consume cow's milk, cow cheese, wild strawberries and tuberbeer.
She is relaxed. She finds helping others rewarding. She is quick to anger. She is often nervous. She greatly apreciates art and natural beauty. She is willing to compromise with others. She often feels discouraged. She has a sense of duty. She tends to avoid crowds. She is bored by reality and has a wonderful imagination. She feels strong urges and seeks short-term rewards. She loves new and fresh ideas. She is disorganized. She is concerned about rejection and ridicule. She is occasionally given to procrastination. She is very friendly. She is slow to trust others. She does not feel effective in life. She often does the first thing that comes to mind.

</div style>

== What DF stuff I've done lately ==

=== in game ===

Nothing. Two weeks of being unable to boot my comp have kinda put a crimp on a lot of things. Haven't actually gotten around to playing DF since I've gotten back online. Lots of meatspace stuff to attend to first. When I finally get a chance, I'll probably play for "fun" for a bit before returning to my... "experiments". -[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

=== Wiki ===

Again, nothing. I'm updating my personal stuff but I'm not even looking at the main stuff, yet.... I apparently need to go learn html, since futzing with my desc. got me in trouble and I had to undo all of it. I like the visuals, but the colors are wrong. There are sections that should blue, green and cyan instead of all white. I tried to fix that, but it put everything else (including this section) into that style and just... looked wrong.

I am still looking for work for the wiki. I am too ... something... to go out and just add/fix stuff on my own. Don't want to get shot down again, but I do, usually, have a bit of time each week that I can devote to such things. If someone would like to point me to a dwarf wiki task that doesn't require sublime wit (which I often recognise in others but cannot seem to duplicate myself), nor experiance with modding, nor... let's just say if it's mindlessly boring "take this info from these three tables and use this format to put it there"... I'll do at least eight hours worth as penance for my not-so-recent sins (which have multiplied, apparently). If you're lucky, you'll get quite a bit more out of me. Depending on how long I put off starting, and what I'm using this task as an excuse for avoiding. ... See, my tendancy towards procrastination can be used to your advantage. -[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 23:12, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

== Ever feel like a little fish in a really big pond? ==

And that maybe the pond is filled with something other than clear crystal water?

I am wading through some of the forums at www.bay12games.com, trying not to duplicate threads as I make suggestions (or, in at least one case, point out that there is a perfectly good way of dealing with the problem they want dealt with without them suggesting something that would mess up my problem even more, and better yet, their solution is already functional in the game). My word, there is a lot of ... stuff... to wade through. Even if I find a thread that talks about something similar to what I'm thinking, it may be a good ten pages long... and if I don't want to sound like a "me too!" who didn't even bother to read what they're "me too!"ing, then... argh... And when that's /already/ a duplicate thread. Headache. And then it turns out that none of them address the subtle vision I see... or insist on making it too complicated to actually impliment...

And I have to wonder, if it's this difficult for me, wading through it all, how badly fare the Great Toad and his tri-toed sibling? Because I'm sure I'm not looking at even a tenth of the ... stuff... that they are. (And no, I don't mean "<redacted>" because it's worthless, but rather because there's just so much of it that it intimidates me and I thus feel the need to call it dirty words. I accept my common ways.)

So, Yargh, I say. Yargh! I will take my ineffective self to dinner, and maybe tomorrow will wade through more "suggestions" in the hopes of finding a gem, a clever mind who's desires match my own (and who was smart enough to phrase it in a way that other people actually understand).

--[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 00:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

User:Teres Draconis

2009-06-12T23:05:37Z

Teres Draconis: /* in game */ update to today

== {{K|u}} -> Teres Draconis -> {{K|v}} -> {{K|Enter}} ==

 
<div style="background: black; width: 50em;">

Teres Draconis has been quite content lately. She has been satisfied at work lately. She was comforted by a friend lately. She ate a wonderful meal lately. She got in a fight lately. She has slept in a fine bedroom lately. She has admired own fine window lately. She was comforted by a wonderful creature in a cage lately.
She is romanticly involved with <message redacted>. She is a casual worshiper of Mari the Chalice of Life.
She is a citizen of the United States. She is a member of <message redacted>.
Teres Draconis likes sandy loam, lapis lazuli, silver, the color green, elk leather, dogs for their loyalty and dragons for their terrible majesty. When possible, she prefers to consume cow's milk, cow cheese, wild strawberries and tuberbeer.
She is relaxed. She finds helping others rewarding. She is quick to anger. She is often nervous. She greatly apreciates art and natural beauty. She is willing to compromise with others. She often feels discouraged. She has a sense of duty. She tends to avoid crowds. She is bored by reality and has a wonderful imagination. She feels strong urges and seeks short-term rewards. She loves new and fresh ideas. She is disorganized. She is concerned about rejection and ridicule. She is occasionally given to procrastination. She is very friendly. She is slow to trust others. She does not feel effective in life. She often does the first thing that comes to mind.

</div style>

== What DF stuff I've done lately ==

=== in game ===

Nothing. Two weeks of being unable to boot my comp have kinda put a crimp on a lot of things. Haven't actually gotten around to playing DF since I've gotten back online. Lots of meatspace stuff to attend to first. When I finally get a chance, I'll probably play for "fun" for a bit before returning to my... "experiments". -[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

=== Wiki ===
Re: The chalk page that breifly was...

I have been told that there is too much duplicate data, and it doesn't fit the style of the other pages. I've been asked to slow down, wait, be patient, and so I shall. But I'll still be doing the stones in the order they are found on [[Stones]] for my own benefit. If someone else wants them, I can share... but I'll be slow and patient and calm. - 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

On the other hand, just having done it taught me a lot about the language of behind-the-wiki. Still more to learn. Something new every day (I hope). Now to see if I am capible of putting it into practice. --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 07:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

If someone would like to use the comments page to point me to a dwarf wiki task that doesn't require sublime wit (which I often recognise in others but cannot seem to duplicate myself), nor experiance with modding, nor... let's just say if it's mindlessly boring "take this info from these three tables and use this format to put it there"... I'll do at least eight hours worth as penance for my recent sins (which have multiplied, apparently). If you're lucky, you'll get quite a bit more out of me. Depending on how long I put off starting, and what I'm using this task as an excuse for avoiding. ... See, my tendancy towards procrastination can be used to your advantage. *sigh* - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

== Ever feel like a little fish in a really big pond? ==

And that maybe the pond is filled with something other than clear crystal water?

I am wading through some of the forums at www.bay12games.com, trying not to duplicate threads as I make suggestions (or, in at least one case, point out that there is a perfectly good way of dealing with the problem they want dealt with without them suggesting something that would mess up my problem even more, and better yet, their solution is already functional in the game). My word, there is a lot of ... stuff... to wade through. Even if I find a thread that talks about something similar to what I'm thinking, it may be a good ten pages long... and if I don't want to sound like a "me too!" who didn't even bother to read what they're "me too!"ing, then... argh... And when that's /already/ a duplicate thread. Headache. And then it turns out that none of them address the subtle vision I see... or insist on making it too complicated to actually impliment...

And I have to wonder, if it's this difficult for me, wading through it all, how badly fare the Great Toad and his tri-toed sibling? Because I'm sure I'm not looking at even a tenth of the ... stuff... that they are. (And no, I don't mean "<redacted>" because it's worthless, but rather because there's just so much of it that it intimidates me and I thus feel the need to call it dirty words. I accept my common ways.)

So, Yargh, I say. Yargh! I will take my ineffective self to dinner, and maybe tomorrow will wade through more "suggestions" in the hopes of finding a gem, a clever mind who's desires match my own (and who was smart enough to phrase it in a way that other people actually understand).

--[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 00:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

User:Teres Draconis

2009-06-12T22:55:33Z

Teres Draconis: meh. I suck at this.

== {{K|u}} -> Teres Draconis -> {{K|v}} -> {{K|Enter}} ==

 
<div style="background: black; width: 50em;">

Teres Draconis has been quite content lately. She has been satisfied at work lately. She was comforted by a friend lately. She ate a wonderful meal lately. She got in a fight lately. She has slept in a fine bedroom lately. She has admired own fine window lately. She was comforted by a wonderful creature in a cage lately.
She is romanticly involved with <message redacted>. She is a casual worshiper of Mari the Chalice of Life.
She is a citizen of the United States. She is a member of <message redacted>.
Teres Draconis likes sandy loam, lapis lazuli, silver, the color green, elk leather, dogs for their loyalty and dragons for their terrible majesty. When possible, she prefers to consume cow's milk, cow cheese, wild strawberries and tuberbeer.
She is relaxed. She finds helping others rewarding. She is quick to anger. She is often nervous. She greatly apreciates art and natural beauty. She is willing to compromise with others. She often feels discouraged. She has a sense of duty. She tends to avoid crowds. She is bored by reality and has a wonderful imagination. She feels strong urges and seeks short-term rewards. She loves new and fresh ideas. She is disorganized. She is concerned about rejection and ridicule. She is occasionally given to procrastination. She is very friendly. She is slow to trust others. She does not feel effective in life. She often does the first thing that comes to mind.

</div style>

== What DF stuff I've done lately ==

=== in game ===

Finding out that no, booze and blood don't flow like water. <explicative redacted>. Like I didn't find that out from many other sources /after/ failing my several boozerfall experiments. I have one last one to try... probably won't work, either, but I'm almost set up for it, so might as well continue.

Making verminous cows... yes, I can milk them, but they have a few... problems. Like, my cats keep killing them, you can't buy them from the embark screen, you can't milk the tame ones (so it really doesn't matter that you can't buy them at embark)... oh, and they teleport like other vermin. Not at all cow-like, I know. I'm working on it. I know they don't /have/ to teleport. Bats don't, once they spawn. Or, at least, I've followed one around for most of a season and it never did. It did change z-levels a few times.

I think [vermin_grounder] might be what makes them blink in and out... they "go to ground". They hide out. They're not really "teleporting", but since they're hidden, even from the hunters, they might as well be. I mention this because I've never noticed Carp teleporting around.... they spawn, they kill, they get the +«+Pig tail shirt+»+ (On the item is a finely-designed image of a dwarf and carp. The dwarf is surrounded by the carp.)

Ah, uhm... gotta go cook dinner. More later, maybe... after I work on my "cows". Argh. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

=== Wiki ===
Re: The chalk page that breifly was...

I have been told that there is too much duplicate data, and it doesn't fit the style of the other pages. I've been asked to slow down, wait, be patient, and so I shall. But I'll still be doing the stones in the order they are found on [[Stones]] for my own benefit. If someone else wants them, I can share... but I'll be slow and patient and calm. - 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

On the other hand, just having done it taught me a lot about the language of behind-the-wiki. Still more to learn. Something new every day (I hope). Now to see if I am capible of putting it into practice. --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 07:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

If someone would like to use the comments page to point me to a dwarf wiki task that doesn't require sublime wit (which I often recognise in others but cannot seem to duplicate myself), nor experiance with modding, nor... let's just say if it's mindlessly boring "take this info from these three tables and use this format to put it there"... I'll do at least eight hours worth as penance for my recent sins (which have multiplied, apparently). If you're lucky, you'll get quite a bit more out of me. Depending on how long I put off starting, and what I'm using this task as an excuse for avoiding. ... See, my tendancy towards procrastination can be used to your advantage. *sigh* - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

== Ever feel like a little fish in a really big pond? ==

And that maybe the pond is filled with something other than clear crystal water?

I am wading through some of the forums at www.bay12games.com, trying not to duplicate threads as I make suggestions (or, in at least one case, point out that there is a perfectly good way of dealing with the problem they want dealt with without them suggesting something that would mess up my problem even more, and better yet, their solution is already functional in the game). My word, there is a lot of ... stuff... to wade through. Even if I find a thread that talks about something similar to what I'm thinking, it may be a good ten pages long... and if I don't want to sound like a "me too!" who didn't even bother to read what they're "me too!"ing, then... argh... And when that's /already/ a duplicate thread. Headache. And then it turns out that none of them address the subtle vision I see... or insist on making it too complicated to actually impliment...

And I have to wonder, if it's this difficult for me, wading through it all, how badly fare the Great Toad and his tri-toed sibling? Because I'm sure I'm not looking at even a tenth of the ... stuff... that they are. (And no, I don't mean "<redacted>" because it's worthless, but rather because there's just so much of it that it intimidates me and I thus feel the need to call it dirty words. I accept my common ways.)

So, Yargh, I say. Yargh! I will take my ineffective self to dinner, and maybe tomorrow will wade through more "suggestions" in the hopes of finding a gem, a clever mind who's desires match my own (and who was smart enough to phrase it in a way that other people actually understand).

--[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 00:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

User:Teres Draconis

2009-06-12T22:52:56Z

Teres Draconis: /* {{K|u}} -> Teres Draconis -> {{K|v}} -> {{K|Enter}} */ still didn't fix it... ahhh!!!!!

== {{K|u}} -> Teres Draconis -> {{K|v}} -> {{K|Enter}} ==

 
<div style="background: black; width: 50em;">
Teres Draconis has been unhappy lately. She has been frustrated at work lately. She was comforted by a friend lately. She complained of hunger lately. She got in a fight lately. She has slept uneasily due to noise lately. She has admired own fine window lately. She was annoyed by flies lately.
 
She is romanticly involved with <message redacted>. She is a casual worshiper of Mari the Chalice of Life.
 
She is a citizen of the United States. She is a member of <message redacted>.
 
Teres Draconis likes sandy loam, lapis lazuli, silver, the color green, elk leather, dogs for their loyalty and dragons for their terrible majesty. When possible, she prefers to consume cow's milk, cow cheese, wild strawberries and tuberbeer.
 
She is relaxed. She finds helping others rewarding. She is quick to anger. She is often nervous. She greatly apreciates art and natural beauty. She is willing to compromise with others. She often feels discouraged. She has a sense of duty. She tends to avoid crowds. She is bored by reality and has a wonderful imagination. She feels strong urges and seeks short-term rewards. She loves new and fresh ideas. She is disorganized. She is concerned about rejection and ridicule. She is occasionally given to procrastination. She is very friendly. She is slow to trust others. She does not feel effective in life. She often does the first thing that comes to mind.

</div style>

== What DF stuff I've done lately ==

=== in game ===

Finding out that no, booze and blood don't flow like water. <explicative redacted>. Like I didn't find that out from many other sources /after/ failing my several boozerfall experiments. I have one last one to try... probably won't work, either, but I'm almost set up for it, so might as well continue.

Making verminous cows... yes, I can milk them, but they have a few... problems. Like, my cats keep killing them, you can't buy them from the embark screen, you can't milk the tame ones (so it really doesn't matter that you can't buy them at embark)... oh, and they teleport like other vermin. Not at all cow-like, I know. I'm working on it. I know they don't /have/ to teleport. Bats don't, once they spawn. Or, at least, I've followed one around for most of a season and it never did. It did change z-levels a few times.

I think [vermin_grounder] might be what makes them blink in and out... they "go to ground". They hide out. They're not really "teleporting", but since they're hidden, even from the hunters, they might as well be. I mention this because I've never noticed Carp teleporting around.... they spawn, they kill, they get the +«+Pig tail shirt+»+ (On the item is a finely-designed image of a dwarf and carp. The dwarf is surrounded by the carp.)

Ah, uhm... gotta go cook dinner. More later, maybe... after I work on my "cows". Argh. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

=== Wiki ===
Re: The chalk page that breifly was...

I have been told that there is too much duplicate data, and it doesn't fit the style of the other pages. I've been asked to slow down, wait, be patient, and so I shall. But I'll still be doing the stones in the order they are found on [[Stones]] for my own benefit. If someone else wants them, I can share... but I'll be slow and patient and calm. - 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

On the other hand, just having done it taught me a lot about the language of behind-the-wiki. Still more to learn. Something new every day (I hope). Now to see if I am capible of putting it into practice. --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 07:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

If someone would like to use the comments page to point me to a dwarf wiki task that doesn't require sublime wit (which I often recognise in others but cannot seem to duplicate myself), nor experiance with modding, nor... let's just say if it's mindlessly boring "take this info from these three tables and use this format to put it there"... I'll do at least eight hours worth as penance for my recent sins (which have multiplied, apparently). If you're lucky, you'll get quite a bit more out of me. Depending on how long I put off starting, and what I'm using this task as an excuse for avoiding. ... See, my tendancy towards procrastination can be used to your advantage. *sigh* - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

== Ever feel like a little fish in a really big pond? ==

And that maybe the pond is filled with something other than clear crystal water?

I am wading through some of the forums at www.bay12games.com, trying not to duplicate threads as I make suggestions (or, in at least one case, point out that there is a perfectly good way of dealing with the problem they want dealt with without them suggesting something that would mess up my problem even more, and better yet, their solution is already functional in the game). My word, there is a lot of ... stuff... to wade through. Even if I find a thread that talks about something similar to what I'm thinking, it may be a good ten pages long... and if I don't want to sound like a "me too!" who didn't even bother to read what they're "me too!"ing, then... argh... And when that's /already/ a duplicate thread. Headache. And then it turns out that none of them address the subtle vision I see... or insist on making it too complicated to actually impliment...

And I have to wonder, if it's this difficult for me, wading through it all, how badly fare the Great Toad and his tri-toed sibling? Because I'm sure I'm not looking at even a tenth of the ... stuff... that they are. (And no, I don't mean "<redacted>" because it's worthless, but rather because there's just so much of it that it intimidates me and I thus feel the need to call it dirty words. I accept my common ways.)

So, Yargh, I say. Yargh! I will take my ineffective self to dinner, and maybe tomorrow will wade through more "suggestions" in the hopes of finding a gem, a clever mind who's desires match my own (and who was smart enough to phrase it in a way that other people actually understand).

--[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 00:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

User:Teres Draconis

2009-06-12T22:51:51Z

Teres Draconis: /* {{K|u}} -> Teres Draconis -> {{K|v}} -> {{K|Enter}} */ forgot the /div

== {{K|u}} -> Teres Draconis -> {{K|v}} -> {{K|Enter}} ==

 
<div style="background: black; width: 50em;">
Teres Draconis has been unhappy lately. She has been frustrated at work lately. She was comforted by a friend lately. She complained of hunger lately. She got in a fight lately. She has slept uneasily due to noise lately. She has admired own fine window lately. She was annoyed by flies lately.
 
She is romanticly involved with <message redacted>. She is a casual worshiper of Mari the Chalice of Life.
 
She is a citizen of the United States. She is a member of <message redacted>.
 
Teres Draconis likes sandy loam, lapis lazuli, silver, the color green, elk leather, dogs for their loyalty and dragons for their terrible majesty. When possible, she prefers to consume cow's milk, cow cheese, wild strawberries and tuberbeer.
 
She is relaxed. She finds helping others rewarding. She is quick to anger. She is often nervous. She greatly apreciates art and natural beauty. She is willing to compromise with others. She often feels discouraged. She has a sense of duty. She tends to avoid crowds. She is bored by reality and has a wonderful imagination. She feels strong urges and seeks short-term rewards. She loves new and fresh ideas. She is disorganized. She is concerned about rejection and ridicule. She is occasionally given to procrastination. She is very friendly. She is slow to trust others. She does not feel effective in life. She often does the first thing that comes to mind.

</div>

== What DF stuff I've done lately ==

=== in game ===

Finding out that no, booze and blood don't flow like water. <explicative redacted>. Like I didn't find that out from many other sources /after/ failing my several boozerfall experiments. I have one last one to try... probably won't work, either, but I'm almost set up for it, so might as well continue.

Making verminous cows... yes, I can milk them, but they have a few... problems. Like, my cats keep killing them, you can't buy them from the embark screen, you can't milk the tame ones (so it really doesn't matter that you can't buy them at embark)... oh, and they teleport like other vermin. Not at all cow-like, I know. I'm working on it. I know they don't /have/ to teleport. Bats don't, once they spawn. Or, at least, I've followed one around for most of a season and it never did. It did change z-levels a few times.

I think [vermin_grounder] might be what makes them blink in and out... they "go to ground". They hide out. They're not really "teleporting", but since they're hidden, even from the hunters, they might as well be. I mention this because I've never noticed Carp teleporting around.... they spawn, they kill, they get the +«+Pig tail shirt+»+ (On the item is a finely-designed image of a dwarf and carp. The dwarf is surrounded by the carp.)

Ah, uhm... gotta go cook dinner. More later, maybe... after I work on my "cows". Argh. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

=== Wiki ===
Re: The chalk page that breifly was...

I have been told that there is too much duplicate data, and it doesn't fit the style of the other pages. I've been asked to slow down, wait, be patient, and so I shall. But I'll still be doing the stones in the order they are found on [[Stones]] for my own benefit. If someone else wants them, I can share... but I'll be slow and patient and calm. - 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

On the other hand, just having done it taught me a lot about the language of behind-the-wiki. Still more to learn. Something new every day (I hope). Now to see if I am capible of putting it into practice. --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 07:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

If someone would like to use the comments page to point me to a dwarf wiki task that doesn't require sublime wit (which I often recognise in others but cannot seem to duplicate myself), nor experiance with modding, nor... let's just say if it's mindlessly boring "take this info from these three tables and use this format to put it there"... I'll do at least eight hours worth as penance for my recent sins (which have multiplied, apparently). If you're lucky, you'll get quite a bit more out of me. Depending on how long I put off starting, and what I'm using this task as an excuse for avoiding. ... See, my tendancy towards procrastination can be used to your advantage. *sigh* - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

== Ever feel like a little fish in a really big pond? ==

And that maybe the pond is filled with something other than clear crystal water?

I am wading through some of the forums at www.bay12games.com, trying not to duplicate threads as I make suggestions (or, in at least one case, point out that there is a perfectly good way of dealing with the problem they want dealt with without them suggesting something that would mess up my problem even more, and better yet, their solution is already functional in the game). My word, there is a lot of ... stuff... to wade through. Even if I find a thread that talks about something similar to what I'm thinking, it may be a good ten pages long... and if I don't want to sound like a "me too!" who didn't even bother to read what they're "me too!"ing, then... argh... And when that's /already/ a duplicate thread. Headache. And then it turns out that none of them address the subtle vision I see... or insist on making it too complicated to actually impliment...

And I have to wonder, if it's this difficult for me, wading through it all, how badly fare the Great Toad and his tri-toed sibling? Because I'm sure I'm not looking at even a tenth of the ... stuff... that they are. (And no, I don't mean "<redacted>" because it's worthless, but rather because there's just so much of it that it intimidates me and I thus feel the need to call it dirty words. I accept my common ways.)

So, Yargh, I say. Yargh! I will take my ineffective self to dinner, and maybe tomorrow will wade through more "suggestions" in the hopes of finding a gem, a clever mind who's desires match my own (and who was smart enough to phrase it in a way that other people actually understand).

--[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 00:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

User:Teres Draconis

2009-06-12T22:51:17Z

Teres Draconis: /* {{K|u}} -> Teres Draconis -> {{K|v}} -> {{K|Enter}} */

== {{K|u}} -> Teres Draconis -> {{K|v}} -> {{K|Enter}} ==

 
<div style="background: black; width: 50em;">
Teres Draconis has been unhappy lately. She has been frustrated at work lately. She was comforted by a friend lately. She complained of hunger lately. She got in a fight lately. She has slept uneasily due to noise lately. She has admired own fine window lately. She was annoyed by flies lately.
 
She is romanticly involved with <message redacted>. She is a casual worshiper of Mari the Chalice of Life.
 
She is a citizen of the United States. She is a member of <message redacted>.
 
Teres Draconis likes sandy loam, lapis lazuli, silver, the color green, elk leather, dogs for their loyalty and dragons for their terrible majesty. When possible, she prefers to consume cow's milk, cow cheese, wild strawberries and tuberbeer.
 
She is relaxed. She finds helping others rewarding. She is quick to anger. She is often nervous. She greatly apreciates art and natural beauty. She is willing to compromise with others. She often feels discouraged. She has a sense of duty. She tends to avoid crowds. She is bored by reality and has a wonderful imagination. She feels strong urges and seeks short-term rewards. She loves new and fresh ideas. She is disorganized. She is concerned about rejection and ridicule. She is occasionally given to procrastination. She is very friendly. She is slow to trust others. She does not feel effective in life. She often does the first thing that comes to mind.


== What DF stuff I've done lately ==

=== in game ===

Finding out that no, booze and blood don't flow like water. <explicative redacted>. Like I didn't find that out from many other sources /after/ failing my several boozerfall experiments. I have one last one to try... probably won't work, either, but I'm almost set up for it, so might as well continue.

Making verminous cows... yes, I can milk them, but they have a few... problems. Like, my cats keep killing them, you can't buy them from the embark screen, you can't milk the tame ones (so it really doesn't matter that you can't buy them at embark)... oh, and they teleport like other vermin. Not at all cow-like, I know. I'm working on it. I know they don't /have/ to teleport. Bats don't, once they spawn. Or, at least, I've followed one around for most of a season and it never did. It did change z-levels a few times.

I think [vermin_grounder] might be what makes them blink in and out... they "go to ground". They hide out. They're not really "teleporting", but since they're hidden, even from the hunters, they might as well be. I mention this because I've never noticed Carp teleporting around.... they spawn, they kill, they get the +«+Pig tail shirt+»+ (On the item is a finely-designed image of a dwarf and carp. The dwarf is surrounded by the carp.)

Ah, uhm... gotta go cook dinner. More later, maybe... after I work on my "cows". Argh. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

=== Wiki ===
Re: The chalk page that breifly was...

I have been told that there is too much duplicate data, and it doesn't fit the style of the other pages. I've been asked to slow down, wait, be patient, and so I shall. But I'll still be doing the stones in the order they are found on [[Stones]] for my own benefit. If someone else wants them, I can share... but I'll be slow and patient and calm. - 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

On the other hand, just having done it taught me a lot about the language of behind-the-wiki. Still more to learn. Something new every day (I hope). Now to see if I am capible of putting it into practice. --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 07:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

If someone would like to use the comments page to point me to a dwarf wiki task that doesn't require sublime wit (which I often recognise in others but cannot seem to duplicate myself), nor experiance with modding, nor... let's just say if it's mindlessly boring "take this info from these three tables and use this format to put it there"... I'll do at least eight hours worth as penance for my recent sins (which have multiplied, apparently). If you're lucky, you'll get quite a bit more out of me. Depending on how long I put off starting, and what I'm using this task as an excuse for avoiding. ... See, my tendancy towards procrastination can be used to your advantage. *sigh* - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

== Ever feel like a little fish in a really big pond? ==

And that maybe the pond is filled with something other than clear crystal water?

I am wading through some of the forums at www.bay12games.com, trying not to duplicate threads as I make suggestions (or, in at least one case, point out that there is a perfectly good way of dealing with the problem they want dealt with without them suggesting something that would mess up my problem even more, and better yet, their solution is already functional in the game). My word, there is a lot of ... stuff... to wade through. Even if I find a thread that talks about something similar to what I'm thinking, it may be a good ten pages long... and if I don't want to sound like a "me too!" who didn't even bother to read what they're "me too!"ing, then... argh... And when that's /already/ a duplicate thread. Headache. And then it turns out that none of them address the subtle vision I see... or insist on making it too complicated to actually impliment...

And I have to wonder, if it's this difficult for me, wading through it all, how badly fare the Great Toad and his tri-toed sibling? Because I'm sure I'm not looking at even a tenth of the ... stuff... that they are. (And no, I don't mean "<redacted>" because it's worthless, but rather because there's just so much of it that it intimidates me and I thus feel the need to call it dirty words. I accept my common ways.)

So, Yargh, I say. Yargh! I will take my ineffective self to dinner, and maybe tomorrow will wade through more "suggestions" in the hopes of finding a gem, a clever mind who's desires match my own (and who was smart enough to phrase it in a way that other people actually understand).

--[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 00:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Olivine

2009-05-22T20:34:38Z

Teres Draconis: Credit where credit is due... MrDG is a much better noob than me.

What makes olivine special enough to warrant an article? <s>Sure, it spawns [[platinum]], but olivine only shows up in [[gabbro]], which already contains platinum, making that point moot. </s>
[[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:11, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:It spawns platinum, but it's hardly the only source. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:31, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

There has been no response from anyone, including the page's author, so I assume this page is not supported. Tagging for deletion. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:26, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:I had responded to you the same day you posted that first comment, but not here (actually, I thought on your talk page, VD - can't find it now, maybe it got lost.) It certainly seems that your 2nd post is responding to a response from somewhere. I'll try to recreate my position:

:Olivine is not nearly as notable as many other stones, but the very points you make at the top of the page are what makes it stand out from truly generic and useless stones like, say, microcline. Your remarks are what makes it "remarkable", if only in a literal sense. The purpose of a wiki page is to summarize information - anyone who knows the various stones knows that if you hit microcline, that tells you absolutely nothing. That is ''truly'' unremarkable. If a newbie strikes olivine and looks it up, they should be able to find out that 1) it may contain platinum, one of only a few sources, and 2) that it also represents an existing, larger gabbro layer - which is valuable to know in and of itself due to the ores that are found ''only'' in that stone. That olivine is not just another microcline.

:How else is a newbie supposed to know the very facts you toss out? Surf the entire wiki at random? Intuitively say "I've hit something called Olivine - I should look up platinum and gabbro!"? Inter-connectivity and reflexive flow of information is what makes a wiki useful, linking lesser (but not insignificant) items with larger.

:There are many stones that give zero information, that are, ''truly'', pointless and unremarkable. Olivine is not one of them.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 01:37, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

::By this reasoning, [[chromite]] should also be remarkable, no? Maybe [[serpentine]], too. And [[cryolite]]. All of these spawn in only one place, as do many more. We have to draw the line, somewhere. Originally, the line was drawn at "has a special use or forms a layer". Later, someone added an exception for [[kimberlite]] since it is the ''only'' source of [[diamond]]s.
::It seems you have decided that "lets you know which layer you're digging into" makes a stone significant. By this criteria, over half of the stones which have no use would deserve their own page. In my opinion, this makes it a bad criteria to use; especially since that particular information is already contained on the [[stone]] page. Unless you want to instate this type of policy, (2) should not even have been mentioned in this discussion.
::As for (1), the issue here is more of a "what good does it do?" problem. From the perspective of a person who is interested in platinum and gets lead to [[olivine]] as a spawn location, there are two scenarios:
:*a) the olivine link leads to a redirect that sends them to a table which contains all the information they didn't know about olivine.
:*b) the olivine link sends them to the olivine page, which tells them olivine spawns in [[gabbro]] (they didnt know) and that olivine contains platinum (they did know).
::Why am I talking about such a specific example? Because there are no links to [[olivine]] except in pages that talk about [[native platinum]] and there is no reason any should appear. [[Chromite]] is in the same boat.
::Rather than deciding arbitrarily deciding you want a page on some rock, decide objectively on the criteria you want to use to determine which rocks deserve pages and follow through all the way. Keep in mind that there are a lot of rocks. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 03:14, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:::I'll address these one point at a time...

:::''"[[chromite]] should also be remarkable, no?"''
:::It's a matter of degree, depending on where that purely arbitrary line is drawn. None of your examples have any direct relation to ''anything'' of value, so I'd say "no", because of degrees of separation (and also, practically speaking, if you find a vein of chromite you'll also probably be aware of the olivine immediately adjacent to it). Serpentine and cryolite - small clusters compared to a large cluster? Even to a newb those would be obvious - the odds of driving a shaft into nothing but olivine is quantums greater than finding those without the olivine.

:::The sole parallel example would be [[Talc]], which is also found in large clusters and implies a dolomite (a flux) layer bounds it. No other stone both appears in such large areas and has a 1:1 relationship to other stones that people would care about.

:::''the line was drawn at "has a special use or forms a layer". Later, someone added an exception...''
:::''"It seems you have decided that..."''
:::I was unaware of this line - it's certainly not in the Guidelines. And your assumptions as to my own criteria do not do you justice. If I "decided" anything, it was in that vacuum, and from the perspective that something (appeared to) need to be decided. Maybe it's time to reconsider that line. The stance I was taking is closer to "Is this stone of any notable significance to game play? Does finding this stone matter in some tangible way? Does it have serious implications that are not self-evident?" None of your examples would fall under that slightly broader umbrella, but kimberlite and bauxite clearly do. As would olivine, and talc at the extreme edge of the definition. (And I'm not including "means a x-type of layer" in that definition - to me, that is too far removed. Distinctly different from "signifies the presence the ''only'' stone where these two important ores can be found" - a point your position ignores.)

:::Let's take the status-quo position in the other direction - how does a layer stone like Andesite, Rhyolite or Diorite deserve their own page? Simply because they're a layer stone??? There, that's said - and is clearly stated on the "stone" page, so why repeat it? I recently went thru and added that statement ("these are layer stones") to ''all'' of those articles, because there is ''nothing'' more to be said about them and they were absolutely blank. And yet they deserve their own pages? They have ores - ores in common with many others. So what? Well, they're a layer, and it was decided that's important enough. Okay, if it's an arbitrary line, let's move it slightly. Olivine has platinum, something only 2 stones* can claim - I think that's important enough by itself. Adding the gabbro connection to the mix only strengthens the position.
:::(* I'm ignoring stones that themselves are found only in Olivine. What difference whether it's in one or the other - who can really tell, or cares?)

:::''"From the perspective of a person who is interested in platinum and gets lead to [[olivine]] as a spawn location, there are two scenarios..."''
:::Either of which is also (more) applicable to many of "layer stone" articles.

:::''"to the olivine page, which tells them olivine spawns in gabbro (they didnt know) and that olivine contains platinum (they did know)."''
:::And Armok forbid that both those details appear on one page somewhere, and the poor newbie doesn't have to embark on a virtual paper chase to find out something that they don't even know they're ignorant of.

:::''"Because there are no links to [[olivine]] except in pages that talk about [[native platinum]]..."''
:::Exactly. You can get from native platinum to olivine, but it's ''much'' harder to get from olivine to native platinum - and that's the problem in a nutshell. Why do you have to jump thru hoops to find out about the potential presence of platinum?! You currently land on the "stone" page, and immediately olivine is lost with scores of other generic stones - from which it should stand out. Not as much as granite, not as much as many others, but certainly more than some layer stones. Leagues above microcline or orpiment, which are it's immediate neighbors. And we both know this every time we get the announcement "You have struck Rhyolite!" vs. "You have struck Olivine" - one promises something, and the other promises nothing.

:::And that simple knowledge should be available on a single page, under the only obvious key word. Imo.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 04:48, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Random additional thought: Why NOT have a comprehensive database of stones? The work appears to have been done already. I should, with only a few links, be able to find where any given ore can be found, and find what ores can be found in any given stone or layer. That is a good thing for the ONLY available reference. Rather than cut [[Olivine]], we should make [[Alunite]] not just redirect to "It's a stone". [[User:Decius|Decius]] 07:36, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:Actually, it may be worth it to bite the bullet and put together a page for everything. The main downside would be that special features of things like [[graphite]] may get lost among all the seemingly equally important pages. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:49, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:Come to think of it, that's not really an issue as long as we don't try to cram too much into [[template:rocks]]. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 15:04, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

 
Seems like it's getting a bit heated in here. I call for a three day recess from edits for you two, to take the time to re-read and further understand each other's position on this. I see the merits of both, and neither is particularly more important than the other, from an overall viewpoint. Being that no one else has contributed as much, I think the drawing of this new line should be handled between you two, but with a bit of time to let it sit and collect a tad bit of dust, and perhaps further outside opinions. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 12:59, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:No personal attacks are cropping up, Ed. So far it seems we are all acting like adults :) [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 14:51, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

When you look up a stone, or anything for that matter, you want to be presented with all directly relevant information, and links to further relevant information. The stone page does not provide this for every stone at this time. I agree that the information about what olivine may contain is not very interesting, but it ''should'' be readily accessable. An Olivine page is the obvious, if not neccessarily practical, solution to the problem of finding ''all'' information (or links thereto) on olivine in ''one'' place. It is indeed a general problem on this wiki. You can look up something to see where it is found, but generally not to see what it may contain. It is the same with gypsum. You must use your browser's search function to find all the different stones that it may contain. Olivine takes the problem further, as it contains not only other stones, but also an ore. To see this you must use your browser's search function on the Ore page. And again on the Gem page to see if it may contain gems. Note that kaolinite, another stone of little interest, may contain turquoise.

I do not know what the best solution for this problem is. Rather than "one page per layer stone" I would suggest expanding the X Layer pages with subsecions for each of the stones that contain something the others do not (such as malachite in limestone and talc in dolomite), possibly with own-page-exeptions (can't think of any, but obsidian might be a candidate, with all its indirectly relevant information on farming it and whatnot). I suggest we either keep the Olivine page, rewrite it, and make sure the Stone page links to it, or have it redirect to an ''olivine subsection'' on the Stone page. I do find the latter less "clean".
--[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 14:11, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:I don't think this is "heated" - I think both VD and I are adamant in our individual viewpoints, and Respect to him for that. But I agree that we need more input from diff users, and not just let "us two" hammer it out. ''Something'' needs to be expanded/changed/improved, imo. A page for any large cluster? Can we group similar types of truly generic stones under one (sub)article that can cover all of them? A separate article/chart for small clusters? Maybe simply expand the info on that universal chart on the stone page, or break it into different charts to be more useful. I also agree (and mentioned) that this may be an opportunity to re-examine the larger question of (written or unwritten) policy on "what deserves its own page", and in so doing what function this wiki fulfills for both the vet and newb user. Okay, out for now, have stated position (and then some, ahem, sorry), will watch quietly.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 14:28, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

::It does not seem prudent to me to come up with rules that are set in stone (no pun intended) about what does and doesn't deserve it's own page. Just ask: Is it useful? Is it relevant? In this case, yes. I find this page very helpful and informative. If I hit olivine and want to know about it, the [[Stone]] page simply does not have the same information. Just my two cents. I hope a conclusion is met soon. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 15:44, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Does this mean I can't use the mindlessness of putting up small "personalized" pages up for each stone as a way of doing penance? And, if I can, how would I tell which ones were done already... without having to go down the entire list and... argh... well, I /did/ ask for boring. --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 05:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::::Teres D aka jaz - it means no one User should presume to change the layout of an entire series of pages without discussing it first, or being prepared for some blowback. Talk pages and, in this case, the Main Page discussion are where.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:12, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::I added a extra column in [[other stone]] for '''INTERESTING''' minerals to be listed. interesting defined as has a material value other then 1. I believe this is more elegant then giving everything their own page, requires a negligable amount of work and adds to understanding. Unfortunately I don't know what appears in all these stones and will leave them ?? for my betters to fill.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:02, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::::MrDG - That may solve the problem in this situation, and tables could likewise be the better solution to some other similar collections of stub/overly-short articles (each animal, each finished good, etc etc.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:12, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::Thanks, I'm new to this and was afraid I was reaching.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::::::<Explicative>! Why can't I be like [[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]]? Credit where it's due. You're a much better noob than I am. I shall endevor to be more like you. (That is, making suggestions in talks rather than blundering through and... right.) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:34, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Albedo

2009-05-22T20:23:05Z

Teres Draconis: /* (response) */ another nickle entry

User talk:Albedo

2009-05-22T20:12:29Z

Teres Draconis: /* User name vs preferred name/nickname */ my four and a half cents

User talk:Albedo

2009-05-22T19:08:05Z

Teres Draconis: /* Stone articles */ I'm a moron.

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2009-05-22T18:59:39Z

Teres Draconis: /* Articles on Olivine and other generic stones */ several responses in one go

{{Archive|
# [[Talk:Main Page/archive1|Archive 1]]
}}

== World Painter Page ==
The wiki has needed a page on the [[World Painter]] for a while, so I've started one. The information in there is decent, but I'm relatively new to wiki editing, so the formatting probably isn't. If someone wouldn't mind cleaning it up a bit for me I'd really appreciate it. --[[User:Timmeh|Timmeh]] 01:15, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

== French language wiki ==

Can we have interlanguage links with the [http://www.dwarffortress.fr/wiki/ French wiki]? -[[User:Alan Trick|Alan Trick]] 17:48, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

== Add a CptnDuck page? ==

Captain Duck is a DF video tutorial maker, which an impressive collection of 40 videos on youtube (and a few extra videos of sieges and arenas and whatnot), and explains how to do most everything, from magma forges to Dwarven justice. He adds humor to it and he's the reason a lot of people understand the game...I think we should give him a page. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Blackdoggie998|Blackdoggie998]]

:As it is insanely easy for anyone to sign up for editing priviledges on this site (I managed to, after all), I see no need to make one for him when he could make one for himself. However, if you wish to add user:CptnDuck, or invite him to make one himself, feel free. He can link to all of his tutorials from his user page. They even be searchable through that lovely little box to the(my) left. (Who knows where it is on your skin.) -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

:P.S. Does it seem odd to you to have it say "unsigned comment by [username]"? Or is that just me? -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, just a little after the previous one.

== Articles on Olivine and other generic stones ==

There is a current discussion as to whether or not [[Olivine]] (and perhaps some few other stones) are duly covered on the current [[stone]] page, or are truly worth having their own article/page. This relates to a larger question of how this wiki is organized, and "What deserves a page" in a general sense. Any interested are encouraged to chime in, if only with a "me too" post pro or con. See [[Talk:Olivine]] for an idea of the issue. I'd like to have the debate move from the specific Olivine page to here since this is a more general issue that affects many potential pages. --[[User:Senso|Senso]] 21:29, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:I'm not really sure which way to go on this one. A lot of otherwise useless stones would need their own articles if the guidelines were expanded... and yet, there's a good amount of useful information that's not on the main pages, that would further clutter them if it were added; And permitting more individual pages would solve both those problems. I guess this ends up being a vote both ways, with provisions on each. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 23:54, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:My vote is, if someone can make it amusing, then sure. If someone is of the bent to enjoy making such a page, then again, sure... otherwise, leave it at the bottom of the pile of "things that someday we might get around to if we feel like it" and don't stress. The relevant data is covered (or will be when someone notices it's not), and everything else is gravy. Beside, what would you rather do, play the game, or figure out how to make a whole page of jokes about how gneiss nice is.... (or did I get that backwards?)... ? --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

::All relevant information is covered, yes. But not necessarily on a relevant page. Before the Olivine page was made you couldn't learn that olivine may contain native platinum from any page related to olivine or stone in general.
::Another example is kaolinite. You can look it up in the table of Other Stone to see it can be found in sedimentary rock. But in order to see that it may itself contain alunite and marcasite you have to go through the entire table (or use the browser search function). Now, in order to see if it may contain anything else, you have to notice the note at the top of the page (just above the table of contents) that points to Metal Ore and Gem, whith another two tables you have to search through. (Kaolinite may contain turquoise). --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 21:44, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:It's not just about "which stones" - it's a larger question of how the wiki is organized and presented. Should each separate and distinct item get its own page, like the current one- or two-line articles on [[vial]]s, [[instrument]]s or [[chain]]s, (just as random parallel examples of some [[finished goods]] that have their very own, very short, very dull, and predictably repetitive articles.) Surely the [[Masons guild]] and [[miners guild]] don't deserve or need separate articles. Do we need a separate and largely redundant article for every trap weapon? What about the cookie-cutter articles on ''every'' individual animal? The GCS deserves its own, and many others, but one on each separate type of shark and hunting cat? There is no actual article there, only a template.

:Quivers and bolts are sub-sections of the [[crossbow]] article, and I think that's a ''great'' call. Olivine, talc and kaolinite are merely similar examples, distinct enough to warrant special treatment, but on the borderline of being so small to each only represent a stub. Ultimately, I don't think a functional formal definition would be easily achieved - rather guidelines and a fuzzy target, combining related info into groups with optimal size limitations (both lower end and upper end). Perhaps a template should not be forced on every lesser example, but they could be grouped into a table on their own article, "other stones of note" or "sharks" or "finished goods" or whatever.

:In many ways, our only current guidelines are "what has been done so far" - and that varies widely and wildly. Too often, pages are cobbled onto related ones, or split off just because its a new topic, if a brutally short one. Myself, I'd like to see most related articles of less than 4 lines or so get grouped into larger, more universally informative articles, and anything larger than maybe 5 full sub-sections be considered for splitting up. If an item stands out from the rest, it should stand out somewhere, in an article - but that doesn't mean it has to have its very own, or invite every similar item to do so as well.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 03:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Please check out the (no longer) current [[Chalk]] page and tell me what you think. ... which is to say, it doesn't /have/ to be a stub, does it? It can be rich and detailed and sadly unamusing. It would please me to continue to do all stones in this manner, or another manner of your choosing.... Thus negating fussing over "this one was done this way, that one was done that way" arguments. I'll get to them all, in the order they appear on the [[Stones]] page. ... assuming you guys are ok with that. --[[User:Teres Draconis]] 08:28, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:: P.S. Who's the outpost manager of this place, anyways? I'd like to know to whom I should be pandering. --jaz

::: I think 1) you should take time to read, if not learn the wiki format guidelines, 2) you should sign with your REAL user name, and stop using a pseudonym, and 3) you should not break someone else's post with yours in between their paragraphs. As to the chalk page, I think it's over-enthusiastic and pays no attention to previous article style or formatting precedent - which may be a good thing or a bad thing, depending. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::: 1) You're right, I'm sorry.
::::2) We've discussed user names on [[User_Talk:Teres_Draconis#Naming Conventions|my talks page]]. (Also, <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> still puts "jaz"... why bother with the link when it's just a P.S.?)
::::3) I'm sorry. I was (apparently) trained wrong, and that was a /long/ time ago. I was taught (20 years ago) that when responding, to do so in-line, so that people can tell what the response is actually relating to. (Like an actual conversation, except with a time warp. You say something, I respond, someone else adds, we all move on to the next topic.) It supposedly adds clarity. The style and curtesy rules of such things has changed. I can see I'll need to update myself. Thank you for pointing that out. =)
::::4) I was hasty. I had to have meatspace people explain to me why, as wiki-''writers'', you would not want so much detail on a page. Especially when, with every new game release, any given page on the wiki might need an over haul. I was only looking at it from the end-user perspective of "If I'm looking for information, I don't want a page that just tells me to go look at the three pages I've already looked at. I want a page that reduces the noise of the irrelevant, and distills to just that specific (sub-)topic." I /don't/ see the point of six pages that are identacle except for title, and all only three lines long. If it's got it's own page, it should have it's own page. If it just links back to the three pages that linked to it, and they all link to each other already, what's the point? If the only thing Chalk has going for it is that it's flux, why not just make a note on the [[Stone]] page reading, "These three rocks can be used as flux" and link to the flux page from there? Why should chalk have it's own page, if it's not going to be richly detailed and, you know, informative? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::The templates are there because they are pretty, detailed, and condensed ways to display some key information. Rather than expanding existing information so that it takes up more space, it's more productive to add things that you think are lacking. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:15, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::: I changed the other [[Stones]] table to allow for interesting minerals that are in other[[Stones]] to be posted.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:17, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:What would actually be helpful is a [[Geology]] primer, indicating how layers and inclusions are placed, where, and what the implications of "You have struck XXX" are. I know, now, that if it's olivine, I have a chance of finding veins of native platinum. One good page explaining what all of the geological processes mean would be a lot more useful then all of the various descriptions of exploratory mining. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 22:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::That sounds like a great idea.--[[User:Mrdudeguy|Mrdudeguy]] 22:46, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::I agree! But I have no idea how to write it. Most of what I know about geology I learned from looking at the raws. Everything else is "OMG, is that a ''rock''?! I've heard of those!" - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::"More useful" to some, but I agree it would be a great addition. Also, the more I think about it, the more I like what MrDG did with the table in Other Stone - tables could condense any and all small, individual articles into single pages w/ (sortable?) tables where all these various similar objects could be compared/contrasted at a glance. Templates are perfect when there is a lot of various info, but if the different topics (semi-generic stones, animals, finished goods) all differ only in one or two details, and there is just not that many variables to begin with, a Table would be (imo) preferable. ''(And imo that table now covers such stones as Olivine well, to get back to the original example that sparked this discussion.)''

::As an additional example of how current stub-articles could be combined into a simple table, I've made this page - [[Example - some fish]] - which could be a model for such. (A page/table with all the "Sea-creatures" would be more likely approp, but this was faster for now.) It would replace every stub-article on related "generic" items, but any truly noteworthy items would still have their own full articles for expanded information and commentary (here, "carp"). It still has 100% of the prev information, but also allows immediate comparison and contrast, and, if sortable, allows a User to more easily compare relations between similar aspects (like "biome", in this example.)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::: Is it possible to put the expandable version of the raw ("game object data (show)" seen at the bottom of the [[carp]] page) inside the table, instead of the whole thing? Or does the one preclude the other? - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Actually, if someone finds it easy to extract that information from the .RAWs, I would find that an improvement on what [[Creatures]] currently has. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 17:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

::::Which information do you want extracted? I can probably do it for you, but you may have heard, I'm in the doghouse for not paying attention to style and formating rules. =/ Show me what there is, and one example of what you want, and I can probably do it for you with a minimum of stupid questions. ... ''Probably.'' - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 18:59, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

== mayday universal/slow start ==
Information on those to me new options is missing totally? Would be great if someone could write up a bit on it, maybe in world generation? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 00:55, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:I think you're referring to the premade embark setup that comes with the Mayday graphic set. I'm not using the latest version, but in my case, Mayday Universal is just a set of dwarf skills and item selections you can use. It'll let you view and modify them before you embark. As for "slow", I haven't seen that; it might be new to the latest release, but it sounds similar.

:Since they're just default embark packs that come with a graphic set, it's not something to add to the worldgen page...maybe the set's, if necessary. --[[User:Kupochama|Kupochama]] 10:21, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

:: I see - that happens when you introduce a noobie who wants "graphics" ;) and keep using that mod. Then that shouldnt go into the wiki of course. Thanks. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:37, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-05-22T17:47:45Z

Teres Draconis: /* Naming Conventions */

User:Teres Draconis

2009-05-22T03:09:43Z

Teres Draconis: /* Wiki */ noise redux

== {{K|u}} -> Teres Draconis -> {{K|v}} -> {{K|Enter}} ==

Teres Draconis has been quite content lately. She has been satisfied at work lately. She was comforted by a friend lately. She ate a wonderful meal lately. She got in a fight lately. She has slept in a fine bedroom lately. She has admired own fine window lately. She was comforted by a wonderful creature in a cage lately.
She is romanticly involved with <message redacted>. She is a casual worshiper of Mari the Chalice of Life.
She is a citizen of the United States. She is a member of <message redacted>.
Teres Draconis likes sandy loam, lapis lazuli, silver, the color green, elk leather, dogs for their loyalty and dragons for their terrible majesty. When possible, she prefers to consume cow's milk, cow cheese, wild strawberries and tuberbeer.
She is relaxed. She finds helping others rewarding. She is quick to anger. She is often nervous. She greatly apreciates art and natural beauty. She is willing to compromise with others. She often feels discouraged. She has a sense of duty. She tends to avoid crowds. She is bored by reality and has a wonderful imagination. She feels strong urges and seeks short-term rewards. She loves new and fresh ideas. She is disorganized. She is concerned about rejection and ridicule. She is occasionally given to procrastination. She is very friendly. She is slow to trust others. She does not feel effective in life. She often does the first thing that comes to mind.

== What DF stuff I've done lately ==

=== in game ===

Finding out that no, booze and blood don't flow like water. <explicative redacted>. Like I didn't find that out from many other sources /after/ failing my several boozerfall experiments. I have one last one to try... probably won't work, either, but I'm almost set up for it, so might as well continue.

Making verminous cows... yes, I can milk them, but they have a few... problems. Like, my cats keep killing them, you can't buy them from the embark screen, you can't milk the tame ones (so it really doesn't matter that you can't buy them at embark)... oh, and they teleport like other vermin. Not at all cow-like, I know. I'm working on it. I know they don't /have/ to teleport. Bats don't, once they spawn. Or, at least, I've followed one around for most of a season and it never did. It did change z-levels a few times.

I think [vermin_grounder] might be what makes them blink in and out... they "go to ground". They hide out. They're not really "teleporting", but since they're hidden, even from the hunters, they might as well be. I mention this because I've never noticed Carp teleporting around.... they spawn, they kill, they get the +«+Pig tail shirt+»+ (On the item is a finely-designed image of a dwarf and carp. The dwarf is surrounded by the carp.)

Ah, uhm... gotta go cook dinner. More later, maybe... after I work on my "cows". Argh. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

=== Wiki ===
Re: The chalk page that breifly was...

I have been told that there is too much duplicate data, and it doesn't fit the style of the other pages. I've been asked to slow down, wait, be patient, and so I shall. But I'll still be doing the stones in the order they are found on [[Stones]] for my own benefit. If someone else wants them, I can share... but I'll be slow and patient and calm. - 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

On the other hand, just having done it taught me a lot about the language of behind-the-wiki. Still more to learn. Something new every day (I hope). Now to see if I am capible of putting it into practice. --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 07:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

If someone would like to use the comments page to point me to a dwarf wiki task that doesn't require sublime wit (which I often recognise in others but cannot seem to duplicate myself), nor experiance with modding, nor... let's just say if it's mindlessly boring "take this info from these three tables and use this format to put it there"... I'll do at least eight hours worth as penance for my recent sins (which have multiplied, apparently). If you're lucky, you'll get quite a bit more out of me. Depending on how long I put off starting, and what I'm using this task as an excuse for avoiding. ... See, my tendancy towards procrastination can be used to your advantage. *sigh* - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

== Ever feel like a little fish in a really big pond? ==

And that maybe the pond is filled with something other than clear crystal water?

I am wading through some of the forums at www.bay12games.com, trying not to duplicate threads as I make suggestions (or, in at least one case, point out that there is a perfectly good way of dealing with the problem they want dealt with without them suggesting something that would mess up my problem even more, and better yet, their solution is already functional in the game). My word, there is a lot of ... stuff... to wade through. Even if I find a thread that talks about something similar to what I'm thinking, it may be a good ten pages long... and if I don't want to sound like a "me too!" who didn't even bother to read what they're "me too!"ing, then... argh... And when that's /already/ a duplicate thread. Headache. And then it turns out that none of them address the subtle vision I see... or insist on making it too complicated to actually impliment...

And I have to wonder, if it's this difficult for me, wading through it all, how badly fare the Great Toad and his tri-toed sibling? Because I'm sure I'm not looking at even a tenth of the ... stuff... that they are. (And no, I don't mean "<redacted>" because it's worthless, but rather because there's just so much of it that it intimidates me and I thus feel the need to call it dirty words. I accept my common ways.)

So, Yargh, I say. Yargh! I will take my ineffective self to dinner, and maybe tomorrow will wade through more "suggestions" in the hopes of finding a gem, a clever mind who's desires match my own (and who was smart enough to phrase it in a way that other people actually understand).

--[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 00:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

User:Teres Draconis

2009-05-22T02:46:49Z

Teres Draconis: /* {{K|U}} -> Teres Draconis -> {{K|V}} -> {{K|Enter}} */ correcting improper capitalization.

== {{K|u}} -> Teres Draconis -> {{K|v}} -> {{K|Enter}} ==

Teres Draconis has been quite content lately. She has been satisfied at work lately. She was comforted by a friend lately. She ate a wonderful meal lately. She got in a fight lately. She has slept in a fine bedroom lately. She has admired own fine window lately. She was comforted by a wonderful creature in a cage lately.
She is romanticly involved with <message redacted>. She is a casual worshiper of Mari the Chalice of Life.
She is a citizen of the United States. She is a member of <message redacted>.
Teres Draconis likes sandy loam, lapis lazuli, silver, the color green, elk leather, dogs for their loyalty and dragons for their terrible majesty. When possible, she prefers to consume cow's milk, cow cheese, wild strawberries and tuberbeer.
She is relaxed. She finds helping others rewarding. She is quick to anger. She is often nervous. She greatly apreciates art and natural beauty. She is willing to compromise with others. She often feels discouraged. She has a sense of duty. She tends to avoid crowds. She is bored by reality and has a wonderful imagination. She feels strong urges and seeks short-term rewards. She loves new and fresh ideas. She is disorganized. She is concerned about rejection and ridicule. She is occasionally given to procrastination. She is very friendly. She is slow to trust others. She does not feel effective in life. She often does the first thing that comes to mind.

== What DF stuff I've done lately ==

=== in game ===

Finding out that no, booze and blood don't flow like water. <explicative redacted>. Like I didn't find that out from many other sources /after/ failing my several boozerfall experiments. I have one last one to try... probably won't work, either, but I'm almost set up for it, so might as well continue.

Making verminous cows... yes, I can milk them, but they have a few... problems. Like, my cats keep killing them, you can't buy them from the embark screen, you can't milk the tame ones (so it really doesn't matter that you can't buy them at embark)... oh, and they teleport like other vermin. Not at all cow-like, I know. I'm working on it. I know they don't /have/ to teleport. Bats don't, once they spawn. Or, at least, I've followed one around for most of a season and it never did. It did change z-levels a few times.

I think [vermin_grounder] might be what makes them blink in and out... they "go to ground". They hide out. They're not really "teleporting", but since they're hidden, even from the hunters, they might as well be. I mention this because I've never noticed Carp teleporting around.... they spawn, they kill, they get the +«+Pig tail shirt+»+ (On the item is a finely-designed image of a dwarf and carp. The dwarf is surrounded by the carp.)

Ah, uhm... gotta go cook dinner. More later, maybe... after I work on my "cows". Argh. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

=== Wiki ===

Check out the new [[chalk]] page and tell me what you think. Yes, honestly, because otherwise I'm going to keep doing it wrong.

:I have been told that there is too much duplicate data, and it doesn't fit the style of the other pages. I've been asked to slow down, wait, be patient, and so I shall. But I'll still be doing the stones in the order they are found on [[Stones]] for my own benefit. If someone else wants them, I can share... but I'll be slow and patient and calm. - 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

On the other hand, just having done it taught me a lot about the language of behind-the-wiki. Still more to learn. Something new every day (I hope). Now to see if I am capible of putting it into practice. --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 07:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

P.S. If someone would like to use the comments page to point me to a dwarf wiki task that doesn't require sublime wit (which I often recognise in others but cannot seem to duplicate myself), nor experiance with modding, nor... let's just say if it's mindlessly boring "take this info from these three tables and use this format to put it there"... I'll do at least eight hours worth as penance for my recent sins (which have multiplied, apparently). If you're lucky, you'll get quite a bit more out of me. Depending on how long I put off starting, and what I'm using this task as an excuse for avoiding. ... See, my tendancy towards procrastination can be used to your advantage. *sigh* - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

== Ever feel like a little fish in a really big pond? ==

And that maybe the pond is filled with something other than clear crystal water?

I am wading through some of the forums at www.bay12games.com, trying not to duplicate threads as I make suggestions (or, in at least one case, point out that there is a perfectly good way of dealing with the problem they want dealt with without them suggesting something that would mess up my problem even more, and better yet, their solution is already functional in the game). My word, there is a lot of ... stuff... to wade through. Even if I find a thread that talks about something similar to what I'm thinking, it may be a good ten pages long... and if I don't want to sound like a "me too!" who didn't even bother to read what they're "me too!"ing, then... argh... And when that's /already/ a duplicate thread. Headache. And then it turns out that none of them address the subtle vision I see... or insist on making it too complicated to actually impliment...

And I have to wonder, if it's this difficult for me, wading through it all, how badly fare the Great Toad and his tri-toed sibling? Because I'm sure I'm not looking at even a tenth of the ... stuff... that they are. (And no, I don't mean "<redacted>" because it's worthless, but rather because there's just so much of it that it intimidates me and I thus feel the need to call it dirty words. I accept my common ways.)

So, Yargh, I say. Yargh! I will take my ineffective self to dinner, and maybe tomorrow will wade through more "suggestions" in the hopes of finding a gem, a clever mind who's desires match my own (and who was smart enough to phrase it in a way that other people actually understand).

--[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 00:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

User:Teres Draconis

2009-05-22T01:10:21Z

Teres Draconis: putting my desc in a subheading, updating my "what I'm doing" section....

== {{K|U}} -> Teres Draconis -> {{K|V}} -> {{K|Enter}} ==

Teres Draconis has been quite content lately. She has been satisfied at work lately. She was comforted by a friend lately. She ate a wonderful meal lately. She got in a fight lately. She has slept in a fine bedroom lately. She has admired own fine window lately. She was comforted by a wonderful creature in a cage lately.
She is romanticly involved with <message redacted>. She is a casual worshiper of Mari the Chalice of Life.
She is a citizen of the United States. She is a member of <message redacted>.
Teres Draconis likes sandy loam, lapis lazuli, silver, the color green, elk leather, dogs for their loyalty and dragons for their terrible majesty. When possible, she prefers to consume cow's milk, cow cheese, wild strawberries and tuberbeer.
She is relaxed. She finds helping others rewarding. She is quick to anger. She is often nervous. She greatly apreciates art and natural beauty. She is willing to compromise with others. She often feels discouraged. She has a sense of duty. She tends to avoid crowds. She is bored by reality and has a wonderful imagination. She feels strong urges and seeks short-term rewards. She loves new and fresh ideas. She is disorganized. She is concerned about rejection and ridicule. She is occasionally given to procrastination. She is very friendly. She is slow to trust others. She does not feel effective in life. She often does the first thing that comes to mind.

== What DF stuff I've done lately ==

=== in game ===

Finding out that no, booze and blood don't flow like water. <explicative redacted>. Like I didn't find that out from many other sources /after/ failing my several boozerfall experiments. I have one last one to try... probably won't work, either, but I'm almost set up for it, so might as well continue.

Making verminous cows... yes, I can milk them, but they have a few... problems. Like, my cats keep killing them, you can't buy them from the embark screen, you can't milk the tame ones (so it really doesn't matter that you can't buy them at embark)... oh, and they teleport like other vermin. Not at all cow-like, I know. I'm working on it. I know they don't /have/ to teleport. Bats don't, once they spawn. Or, at least, I've followed one around for most of a season and it never did. It did change z-levels a few times.

I think [vermin_grounder] might be what makes them blink in and out... they "go to ground". They hide out. They're not really "teleporting", but since they're hidden, even from the hunters, they might as well be. I mention this because I've never noticed Carp teleporting around.... they spawn, they kill, they get the +«+Pig tail shirt+»+ (On the item is a finely-designed image of a dwarf and carp. The dwarf is surrounded by the carp.)

Ah, uhm... gotta go cook dinner. More later, maybe... after I work on my "cows". Argh. - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

=== Wiki ===

Check out the new [[chalk]] page and tell me what you think. Yes, honestly, because otherwise I'm going to keep doing it wrong.

:I have been told that there is too much duplicate data, and it doesn't fit the style of the other pages. I've been asked to slow down, wait, be patient, and so I shall. But I'll still be doing the stones in the order they are found on [[Stones]] for my own benefit. If someone else wants them, I can share... but I'll be slow and patient and calm. - 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

On the other hand, just having done it taught me a lot about the language of behind-the-wiki. Still more to learn. Something new every day (I hope). Now to see if I am capible of putting it into practice. --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 07:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

P.S. If someone would like to use the comments page to point me to a dwarf wiki task that doesn't require sublime wit (which I often recognise in others but cannot seem to duplicate myself), nor experiance with modding, nor... let's just say if it's mindlessly boring "take this info from these three tables and use this format to put it there"... I'll do at least eight hours worth as penance for my recent sins (which have multiplied, apparently). If you're lucky, you'll get quite a bit more out of me. Depending on how long I put off starting, and what I'm using this task as an excuse for avoiding. ... See, my tendancy towards procrastination can be used to your advantage. *sigh* - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 01:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

== Ever feel like a little fish in a really big pond? ==

And that maybe the pond is filled with something other than clear crystal water?

I am wading through some of the forums at www.bay12games.com, trying not to duplicate threads as I make suggestions (or, in at least one case, point out that there is a perfectly good way of dealing with the problem they want dealt with without them suggesting something that would mess up my problem even more, and better yet, their solution is already functional in the game). My word, there is a lot of ... stuff... to wade through. Even if I find a thread that talks about something similar to what I'm thinking, it may be a good ten pages long... and if I don't want to sound like a "me too!" who didn't even bother to read what they're "me too!"ing, then... argh... And when that's /already/ a duplicate thread. Headache. And then it turns out that none of them address the subtle vision I see... or insist on making it too complicated to actually impliment...

And I have to wonder, if it's this difficult for me, wading through it all, how badly fare the Great Toad and his tri-toed sibling? Because I'm sure I'm not looking at even a tenth of the ... stuff... that they are. (And no, I don't mean "<redacted>" because it's worthless, but rather because there's just so much of it that it intimidates me and I thus feel the need to call it dirty words. I accept my common ways.)

So, Yargh, I say. Yargh! I will take my ineffective self to dinner, and maybe tomorrow will wade through more "suggestions" in the hopes of finding a gem, a clever mind who's desires match my own (and who was smart enough to phrase it in a way that other people actually understand).

--[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 00:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-05-22T00:26:47Z

Teres Draconis: /* Chalk & whinging */ & /* Naming conventions */

== the sig ==
(heavily edited for noise reduction. I'm going to keep this info for at least a while longer because it's useful to me.)

EXAMPLE: Three![[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] Four![[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:07, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Five!17:07, 21 May 2009 (UTC). Very cool, no?

:You are delightfully strange. I like you. ... just, out of curiousity... how did you get it to do that? ... And why would you want to? - jaz

::It is the amount of tildes.
*3 tildes (<nowiki>~~~</nowiki>) [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]]
*4 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
*5 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki>) 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::: Now you yelling out numbers actually makes sense. I get it... so I shall experiment. What happens at one, two and six?
:::::<Experiment redacted to reduce noise>
:::The scientific world will be in awe. I know I am. (What a bummer. Couldn't it just, like, throw up a thing that says "Over tildified?" That would be amusing, at least.) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

:::I am somewhat amused by the fact that "jaz" and "<nowiki>~~~</nowiki>" have the same number of characters. So it's not like typing will be longer, just... different.

== My personal note taking place ==

A lot of the following is just for my own personal note taking stuff. Feel free to add or comment or whatever. I don't mind.
Some of these questions (are) answered in the forums. I'll go check at some point, until then, this is where I'm storing my questions so I don't forget what it was I wanted to ask. ... the personality tags aught to have one for forgetfulness... which would related directly to how long they continue to think about things that have happened. One who was extremely forgetful might not list "slept in the rain" for as long as someone who had a clear recollection of things long past.

I play three versions of the game, randomly... one, the pure, out of the box, only thing messed with are the init files. Another with minor modifications to things like, oh... domestic cats are spayed when captured (affected by the child tags being replaced with [NO_GENDER])... we'll just pretend that they continue to breed like crazy out in the wilds.

---
For my modding purposes (uh, I've turned the smelter into a store to "buy" stuff from) , if anyone knows the TYPE:SUBTYPE:MATERIAL:MATGLOSS tags for any of the following, please please pretty please share them.

ivory, pearl, coral (I don't care if the creatures still don't drop them. I can "buy" it from my smelter, once I figure out the values for them)

containers with stuff in them. (for example, the cage the cow is in, the bag the sand is in, etc.) I figure the contents have to be listed seperately, but how do you get a barrel full of booze, and not booze in one hand and barrel in the other?... though, hey, now I have the idea for a booze-rfall. Must go attempt.

:Sadly, the boozerfall did not work. Nor the blooderfall that I had going in the smelter next to it (I figured, two trials for the price of one)... Even using a smelter to make a waterfall doesn't work. Apparently, any liquid product from the smelter, even if it is not stackable, does not flow out of the smelter, no matter how many you have... and if you unmake the smelter in the attempt to let it flow, it does not, but rather mysteriously vanishes into the unseen ether.... for my trial I used the (seemingly absurd) number 13,263. Strangely, 13263 waters will not overflow the smelter, nor run down the channels next to it, nor anything. They just sit in the smelter, making it nie impossible to use due to the liquid clutter.

:It would have been glorious, though. The plains flooded with Dwarven Ale. The gentle nurse lowering her bucket into the giant lake of booze to tote back to the wounded soldiers. The Generator [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1292-ubermistgenerator] making sweet smelling (and potentially intoxicating) mists... Sadly, this method does not work. I'll see if I can find another...

::Perhaps if I fill a room with 10000 barrels of booze, and then go mod the melting tempurature of the barrels to really low? Or, hmmm... wonder if you can make barrels out of ice? No, it acts like rock, and there are no rock barrels... except for... so maybe, hmmmm... ok! Gonna go try that next!
:::These things all start as "stacks", not flows, so they don't. I've heard mutterings that certain kinds of cave ins can turn fluid stacks into fluid flows but that's it. Whether it works or not, caving in something on top of a smelter containing a million water would be hilarious...--[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

"plant cheeses"... like, say, tofu. ... how do I get the plants to let me make cheese from the extract? Twice I've tried, twice I've failed. I can keep experimenting, but... eh.

-
For the game designers and those who speak to them (go ahead, claim credit, I'm ok with that)... things I'd like to see in future versions...

a way to mod the workshops themselves. For instance, when I tell the manager I want to make 300 cheeses, I don't want the "make cheese" task to fill up the farmer's workshop I've dedicated to my spinner (making plant thread). I can dedicate /who/ works there. I'd like to dedicate the kinds of tasks that can be performed there, too.

:I know I can make a task repeatable... but if I want to save out 100 of my 400 barrels of milk for direct cooking, and don't want to have to forbid them, unforbid them, etc... besides, this was an example... could just as easily be "make stone toys" at the bone carver's shop.

I'd like to see a tag to put on things like sheep that allows for sheering. I want to make wool cloth without having to slaughter my sheep for them. ... and angoras, too. Poor bunnies. Not that I get cloth now... I get leather still, but...

:Probably would have the same problem as milking currently does. Perhaps when they get around to fixing that, they may put this one in as well... if someone makes them think of it.

I'd like to be able to make dyes from animal products. For instance, there are snails that produce a lovely purple color when crushed. No, I'm not with PETA, how did you guess?

I'd like to be able to dye worked cloth. The dress was made with undyed cloth? Should be easy to fix. I'd also like to be able to redye dyed cloth. In real life it would simply add color but I'd be ok with a "paint over" kind of effect.

Maybe mix dyes to make new colors? ... The only way I can think of right now to mod that in is to have a plant for each of them and then smelt two dyes into something else, red and blue make purple like iron and pig iron make steel.

I think bones (raw hides, skulls, shells) should be binable. I mean, really. I have 10 fishbones a cat's skull and a turtle shell that take up the same floorspace as 12 beds?!? Put them in a bin. On raw hides: it rots. Ok, two choices. One: don't let me bin this. I'll still be happy if I can bin the friggin' bones, shells, skulls. Or, two: The rot spreads to everything it touches, and, since it's "in" something, it produces miasma. Even if the bin is outside. I don't think that "rat remains" and "dog chunks" and such should be binable. I mean, ew. Also, those don't go into the workshop stockpiles for processing. At least, not in /my/ fortresses. ... again, ew.

... One or two last thoughts before I actually post this...

Is there a way to make a mixed group of creatures that spawn together? I mean, take your average herd in Africa. You're going to have zebras and elephants and girraffs and several other things besides, often all walking together. Sure, often you find a herd of just elephants, but often you'll find one or two in a mix of other things as well. And flocks of birds who travel with them, too.

I'm considering adding a new medium-heavy mod that accounts for things like mixed herds, beehives (worker bees, queen bee, guard bees), maybe beemen... though antmen could use this, too. Antmen could maybe have pet Giant Aphids (who, storywise they milk but who aren't tamable to humanoids)...

And, thirdly (I know I said one or two)... feralization. I can keep my tame but unclaimed pets mostly in one area by defining it as a meeting zone... but if I don't... and if they wander off (even if they don't)... I think that if they don't see one of their caretakers for, oh, two seasons (maybe less... maybe a tag that says how quickly?)... they should feralize. Easy way is just to make them go back to being the wild version of that creature. If it's in the wrong biome... uh, oops? Might die sooner? Might get eaten by a grue, I mean, uh... Another way is to make a whole other classification (wild, tame, feral)... maybe it adjusts how aggressive it is. Maybe not. Maybe it adjusts how easily it goes back to being tame. Would this tag be passed on to it's young? Or would the young just be "wild" to start with? If you were near another outpost, city or whatever, would you have their feral creatures start wandering into your area on occasion? Just what you need, the neighbor's feral dragon has decided your keep is it's new home!

Ok, Done. I'll edit and such later, and reduce the noise as I get answers. Or, you know, you can if you like. Whatever.

-jaz

: I would really really like to see a little option pop up. When everything pauses and recenters because the miners struck something new on a level, and it says ... whatever it says... I'd like there to be a (d)ig, (s)trip, (f)orbid option.
::(d)ig would just dig the squares you've already designated.
::(s)trip would designate for mining squares of that type, on that level, /as they are discovered/, even if they aren't currently designated. If it's done "as discovered", you won't neccissarily know how much you're getting until it's done, thus maintaining the mystery. You should still be able to undesignate squares that have been designated automatically.
::(f)orbid would un-designate squares of that type, on that level, as they are discovered.
:That way I don't have my newbie miner failing the attempt to mine out the diamonds. I can just leave them there for later. And if I have 4 levels of mining going on, I can't watch every level all the time to see if a new deposite of something already mentioned shows up, or whatever... I can just say "no, not that" as it's discovered, and all the miners know to leave it, and all other instances of it, alone.

== Noise Reduction (Should I call this "[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] sets me straight" ?? *Teases*) ==
Things that got answered... They will get deleted out all together at some point as I don't want this talks page to be 40 bajillion pages long.

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] distroyed my dreams of milkable cows via the [milkable:33333] tag on 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I cried. Bad you, making girls cry. He also explained on 17:23, 21 May 2009 (UTC) that "Purring Maggots are VERMIN. Read vermin as Item, because that is what they are in game terms. Items that can teleport. Cows, however, are not items. And it is broken."
:I know it's broken. I think /everyone/ knows its broken... I just... I... there you go making me cry again. But thank you for explaining about vermin in short words I can understand. I get it now, I just don't want to. Another question, though... Why are vermin in the creatures raws if they're not creatures? Shouldn't they be in their own raws if they're items?
:And... verminous cows... heee! Oh, sorry, just a thought. (Because yes, I'd trade being able to eat them and get leather from them for the ability to milk them every season.) -- jaz
::Personal cow modding complete. Cows became Lulu, because it amused me to find that "genetic testing of the Dwarf Lulu breed [...] found them to be a mix of European cattle, zebu and yak." New vermin added : Dairy Cow. -- [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:31, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

-
Name and/or data is in contention....

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] (apparently did not tell) me there will be a way of saying "creature A and creature B can breed together to make creature C" in the next release. I mean, where do you think mules come from? I have several donkies of both genders, I have several horses of both genders... every once in a while, instead of getting a donkey foal or a horse foal, I (will, next release) be getting a mule foal... and no, mules still can't breed (IRL, anyways. We'll see about IG).

:Will there also be a way of preventing such things? I mean, if I keep my horses in one vault and my donkies in another, am I going to get a whole seasons worth of foaling turned into mules? -- the ever curious [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]

::I never said that.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:23, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::: It was your sig after the "That will be coming next release" comment. Was that in response to something else? I appologise for attributing to you something you did not say or imply. - jaz

-

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] suggested I look on/post to the forums for my ideas and wants, game wise... apparently quite a few of them were already mentioned. I've removed some from my list. Not that I think they're neccsissarly upcoming, but well, noise reduction. I've posted some already, and some I don't even know how to search for the thread. Then again, worst is worst, someone calls me an idiot and points to the 47 other threads that I'm repeating. I'll only feel rejected and foolish. What's so wrong with that? ... "Teres Draconis ... is concerned about rejection and ridicule." ... Oh, right. Cry me a river. Do it anyways, Jaz.
... doing, doing, done. --[[User:Teres Draconis|-- jaz]] 00:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:You're a noise one, aren't you. It's ok, just lurk around the forum for a while. Use search, which is a little odd, until you realize that there is two different search boxes.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:09, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== Chalk & whinging ==

Nice work, very thorough - but slow down, just for now. On the Main Page discussion, folk are trying to decide whether/how to structure the guidelines, what constitutes "an article" - and they should all be along the same lines. I like your effort - don't want to see it get undone to conform to any new guidelines.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:Thanks! I'll go see if I can find that discussion and maybe point to that in a grab for attention and prase. Yes, the gems. *teases* --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 08:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::If you want to add some new information to a page, it can be done without deleting everything that is already on it. I suggest you stick to minor improvements rather than complete rewritings. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::But the only thing chalk had on it before was, like, three bits of information. 1) it was a sedementary layer stone, 2) i could be used as flux, and 3) it had lots of gems/ore that could be found in it. The first two data bits are still there, and the third one is heavily expanded to the point of actually being informative if someone wants to know "well, what can I find?"
:::Meh, maybe I should put in a redirect here to the convo on the main page's talk tab. ... Not entirely sure how to do that yet, but I know of at least three places where I can find examples so... meh.
::::[[Talk:Main Page]] --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::::P.S. You're a little overenthusiastic. Chill. Stick to the small things. When you understand how things run around here, THEN start rewriting crap. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:: There was a big long thing here that, upon going away for an hour, and then coming back and reading it again, I realised was mostly whining and "poor me" and "nobody understands me"... So I didn't post it, because this is not the place for that. I have a blog (which I never use) if I want to whine.

::I will simply say that I posted /one/ page (and lots of talk, 'cause I'm chatty), and asked for responses. I got several before I could even start on the next page, all of which asked me to hold off, or slow down, or similar. So I'm holding off, and... ok, not slowing down, exactly... but I'll do the work, and keep it for my own use, and if people say "hey, that was good, do it again" I can, and if they say "Change it this way" I /maybe/ can, and if they don't say anything, I can keep keeping it to myself, unless someone asks for a copy of my work, in which case, I can do that, too. (See, I have a "can do" attitude!)

::I am done talking about talking about it. I'm mostly done talking about it directly. Time for me to play the game or get off the computer. Besides. I have milkable cows now. My life is complete. =) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

::: See, there's something that is pure "addition", not rewriting - milkable cows. Make a new article. Be terse and factual, "how it's done". Be objective, no "I". Link from [[cow]]s and [[milk]] - that's more the sort of thing that the wiki needs.
:::The problem with the chalk rewrite/reformat is that you completely changed a page that had scores of other related pages that used the ''identical'' format. You also, by your own admission, "copied and pasted" - wiki's don't like redundant info if they can avoid it, and certainly not ''that'' much. If someone wants to know all about a specific gem, they go to the article on that gem, or failing that then the [[gem]] page, not the page on the stone where that gem is found along with many, many others.
:::After you are here a while, you'll get a feel for the overall style - and can branch out from there.

:::: I hear you. I'll... be patient. And, my milkable cows are a mod, and kinda a cobbled one at that. You can't buy them from the embark screen (though I had traders bring them on the first visit... of course, that doesn't help much, since it can't be /tame/ and milked. Argh! Who came up with this mess?!? TOADY!!!), they teleport, and my cats keep killing the wild ones. I'm working on it, ok? But I can milk them. And they're called cows. Once you know that, it should be easy to figure out what I did. Not a hard mod at all. -- [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]]

== Naming Conventions ==

(PS - And, I gotta ask - why "jaz" when you just signed up as a User with TD? Why not just sign up with jaz to begin with?)--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 22:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

: Uh, 'cause it's my name? And, as far as the web is concerned, I am Teres Draconis. ... last week, <name redacted> did a search for me, 'cause she's a dope and couldn't remember some minor detail about something completely irrelevant to this conversation. She came up with some orchid sites competely unrelated to how I got my name, and almost everything else was in some way related to me. I use it because it helps people find me, to know that it's me and not some /other/ Jazlyn. ('cause, you know, it's a /really/ common name. *snerk*) Two years ago, /everything/ that came up in a google search for Teres Draconis would have been about orchids or me. And I'm no delicate flower. Sadly.

Some random stuff (you probably don't care about) reguarding my nick and where it comes from...

:"Teres" is latin for "rounded, polished, smooth, fine, elegant" (things I aspire to be... and something a dragon would love, since it's both gem related and indicates a certain level of grandois... ishness... oif. Yep, I'm not there, yet.)

: Teres Draconis was my first dragon type character. I have used her name for every other genre in which I played a dragon, because the character herself was familiar to me, leaving only the variances of this game vs that one to learn. Much easier (for me) to learn the rules that way. (I use this technique alot. "Tessi" is almost always the name of a kinder/half-elf/small-cute-humanoid-thief character the first time I play a game, "Wudi" for small cute felines, etc.) ((Wudi=extreme cuteness, usually only found in kittens, puppies and those babies you love. Wudi overdose is often diagnosed by people saying such absurd things as "You're a kitty! Yes you are!" to some poor, patiently forbearing feline awaiting rescue or escape, or some other such context-applicable drivel.))

:I use Teres Draconis because it makes it easier to remember user names if I only have one that I use everywhere I go.... I actually have more than that, because some places (like, oh, my work, school, bank, horticulture society) require that usernames follow their naming conventions. Makes it easier for whoever to find me in the database if they don't have to remember that I go by this funny name, and joe smith goes by that one.... everyone goes by something in their real names, or by some serial code, or whatever. I tend to forget those more, even when I use them twice a day, three days a week for 9 weeks at a time.

So, how did you come up with /your/ name? (open to all, not just [[User:Albedo|Albedo]])

::P.S. I love etymology, and the related field of where names come from (though I never remember what that's called)... and since online you get to choose your own name, it makes it much more personal... and could potentially tell a lot about who you are. If nothing else, it might just say you're fairly conventional (read:uncreative *teases*) in your naming coventions. (There's a place for everything, even convention. But if the name you get to choose for yourself doesn't say /anything/ about you... ) - [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] (and even the fact that I use /that/ nickname says something about me)

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-05-21T20:58:18Z

Teres Draconis: /* Chalk & whinging. */ mostly whinging... at least on my part.

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-05-21T20:43:52Z

Teres Draconis: /* the sig */ got rid of old stuff.

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-05-21T20:31:46Z

Teres Draconis: /* Noise Reduction */ reducing the noise in this section, too.

== the sig ==
(pulled from below to form it's own section)

::It's <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>. Comes with built in timestamp.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok, several people have commented in several places (including in that horrible meatspace place... no, not the b(u)tcher shop, the other one) about my, uh, "unusual timestamp". Part of it is that yes, there is a sig button(which I didn't see the first time because there are more than three buttons and I was more concerned with content than italics and such). Yes, there is a nifty tildy thing (which I would, no doubt, forget how many to put in anyways)... but I've gotten used to typing it out by hand, and really. Who cares /when/ it was written? It was written before you read it this time, and after last time (if there was one)... or possibly, if you've read the comment in question a few times, the time three before that. It should be clear in context of who it's responding to (of?) what it was written after, and who commented on it and therefore wrote after it, ...and, really, does it truly change the nature of the universe ''if it was always there and you just didn't notice''??? So, thank you all for your helpful pointing out of things that at one point or other I didn't know. I do really apreciate it because yes, I am new, and no, I don't know everything. And yes, there are still many things I seek to learn. I think, though, I will continue on my merry way, typing it out by hand, with my own unusual timestamp. -- jaz (you're on my page, you don't get a link) ... on this day, sometime after the post being commented on.

:The timestamp is for other people's convenience. Although it seems you think others shouldn't care when something was written, that will not stop them (or me) from wanting to know. Considering it is actually less work for you to let people know than to deprive them of that knowledge, perhaps you should include the timestamp. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:36, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: You are right, of course, in that it is rude of me to go out of my way to annoy people. It's not that, its just. It takes exactly... darnit, uh... Four... four tildies to do the sig with timestamp. Half the time I will do three, and another third of the time I may do five, which leaves a poor sixth of the time I'll actually get four. Part of that is I may not remember (though having counted and "said" it I will remember longer). Part of that is that I typo rather a lot. On the other hand <nowiki>-- [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]</nowiki> is not only in my muscle memory, but it's something I can look up at the sigs of everyone above me and either cut, paste and edit or just type out by looking. The date and time? Much more difficult. I have to remember how far off I am from dwarfwiki standard, remember how far off my computer gets (my computer, strangely, seems to lose a minute and a half every week or so), yada yada blah. I'm lazy. Will people in general be more satisfied if I just leave the date and time blank? ... or maybe I can start remembering to use the blasted button. -- [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] 00:08, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::Button it is. --[[User:Teres Draconis| jaz]] 00:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:::EXAMPLE: Three![[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] Four![[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:07, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Five!17:07, 21 May 2009 (UTC). Very cool, no?

::::You are delightfully strange. I like you. ... just, out of curiousity... how did you get it to do that? ... And why would you want to?{{unsigned|Teres Draconis}}

:::::It is the amount of tildes.
*3 tildes (<nowiki>~~~</nowiki>) [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]]
*4 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
*5 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki>) 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== My personal note taking place ==

A lot of the following is just for my own personal note taking stuff. Feel free to add or comment or whatever. I don't mind.
Some of these questions (are) answered in the forums. I'll go check at some point, until then, this is where I'm storing my questions so I don't forget what it was I wanted to ask. ... the personality tags aught to have one for forgetfulness... which would related directly to how long they continue to think about things that have happened. One who was extremely forgetful might not list "slept in the rain" for as long as someone who had a clear recollection of things long past.

I play three versions of the game, randomly... one, the pure, out of the box, only thing messed with are the init files. Another with minor modifications to things like, oh... domestic cats are spayed when captured (affected by the child tags being replaced with [NO_GENDER])... we'll just pretend that they continue to breed like crazy out in the wilds.

---
For my modding purposes (uh, I've turned the smelter into a store to "buy" stuff from) , if anyone knows the TYPE:SUBTYPE:MATERIAL:MATGLOSS tags for any of the following, please please pretty please share them.

ivory, pearl, coral (I don't care if the creatures still don't drop them. I can "buy" it from my smelter, once I figure out the values for them)

containers with stuff in them. (for example, the cage the cow is in, the bag the sand is in, etc.) I figure the contents have to be listed seperately, but how do you get a barrel full of booze, and not booze in one hand and barrel in the other?... though, hey, now I have the idea for a booze-rfall. Must go attempt.

:Sadly, the boozerfall did not work. Nor the blooderfall that I had going in the smelter next to it (I figured, two trials for the price of one)... Even using a smelter to make a waterfall doesn't work. Apparently, any liquid product from the smelter, even if it is not stackable, does not flow out of the smelter, no matter how many you have... and if you unmake the smelter in the attempt to let it flow, it does not, but rather mysteriously vanishes into the unseen ether.... for my trial I used the (seemingly absurd) number 13,263. Strangely, 13263 waters will not overflow the smelter, nor run down the channels next to it, nor anything. They just sit in the smelter, making it nie impossible to use due to the liquid clutter.

:It would have been glorious, though. The plains flooded with Dwarven Ale. The gentle nurse lowering her bucket into the giant lake of booze to tote back to the wounded soldiers. The Generator [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1292-ubermistgenerator] making sweet smelling (and potentially intoxicating) mists... Sadly, this method does not work. I'll see if I can find another...

::Perhaps if I fill a room with 10000 barrels of booze, and then go mod the melting tempurature of the barrels to really low? Or, hmmm... wonder if you can make barrels out of ice? No, it acts like rock, and there are no rock barrels... except for... so maybe, hmmmm... ok! Gonna go try that next!
:::These things all start as "stacks", not flows, so they don't. I've heard mutterings that certain kinds of cave ins can turn fluid stacks into fluid flows but that's it. Whether it works or not, caving in something on top of a smelter containing a million water would be hilarious...--[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

"plant cheeses"... like, say, tofu. ... how do I get the plants to let me make cheese from the extract? Twice I've tried, twice I've failed. I can keep experimenting, but... eh.

-
For the game designers and those who speak to them (go ahead, claim credit, I'm ok with that)... things I'd like to see in future versions...

a way to mod the workshops themselves. For instance, when I tell the manager I want to make 300 cheeses, I don't want the "make cheese" task to fill up the farmer's workshop I've dedicated to my spinner (making plant thread). I can dedicate /who/ works there. I'd like to dedicate the kinds of tasks that can be performed there, too.

:I know I can make a task repeatable... but if I want to save out 100 of my 400 barrels of milk for direct cooking, and don't want to have to forbid them, unforbid them, etc... besides, this was an example... could just as easily be "make stone toys" at the bone carver's shop.

I'd like to see a tag to put on things like sheep that allows for sheering. I want to make wool cloth without having to slaughter my sheep for them. ... and angoras, too. Poor bunnies. Not that I get cloth now... I get leather still, but...

:Probably would have the same problem as milking currently does. Perhaps when they get around to fixing that, they may put this one in as well... if someone makes them think of it.

I'd like to be able to make dyes from animal products. For instance, there are snails that produce a lovely purple color when crushed. No, I'm not with PETA, how did you guess?

I'd like to be able to dye worked cloth. The dress was made with undyed cloth? Should be easy to fix. I'd also like to be able to redye dyed cloth. In real life it would simply add color but I'd be ok with a "paint over" kind of effect.

Maybe mix dyes to make new colors? ... The only way I can think of right now to mod that in is to have a plant for each of them and then smelt two dyes into something else, red and blue make purple like iron and pig iron make steel.

I think bones (raw hides, skulls, shells) should be binable. I mean, really. I have 10 fishbones a cat's skull and a turtle shell that take up the same floorspace as 12 beds?!? Put them in a bin. On raw hides: it rots. Ok, two choices. One: don't let me bin this. I'll still be happy if I can bin the friggin' bones, shells, skulls. Or, two: The rot spreads to everything it touches, and, since it's "in" something, it produces miasma. Even if the bin is outside. I don't think that "rat remains" and "dog chunks" and such should be binable. I mean, ew. Also, those don't go into the workshop stockpiles for processing. At least, not in /my/ fortresses. ... again, ew.

... One or two last thoughts before I actually post this...

Is there a way to make a mixed group of creatures that spawn together? I mean, take your average herd in Africa. You're going to have zebras and elephants and girraffs and several other things besides, often all walking together. Sure, often you find a herd of just elephants, but often you'll find one or two in a mix of other things as well. And flocks of birds who travel with them, too.

I'm considering adding a new medium-heavy mod that accounts for things like mixed herds, beehives (worker bees, queen bee, guard bees), maybe beemen... though antmen could use this, too. Antmen could maybe have pet Giant Aphids (who, storywise they milk but who aren't tamable to humanoids)...

And, thirdly (I know I said one or two)... feralization. I can keep my tame but unclaimed pets mostly in one area by defining it as a meeting zone... but if I don't... and if they wander off (even if they don't)... I think that if they don't see one of their caretakers for, oh, two seasons (maybe less... maybe a tag that says how quickly?)... they should feralize. Easy way is just to make them go back to being the wild version of that creature. If it's in the wrong biome... uh, oops? Might die sooner? Might get eaten by a grue, I mean, uh... Another way is to make a whole other classification (wild, tame, feral)... maybe it adjusts how aggressive it is. Maybe not. Maybe it adjusts how easily it goes back to being tame. Would this tag be passed on to it's young? Or would the young just be "wild" to start with? If you were near another outpost, city or whatever, would you have their feral creatures start wandering into your area on occasion? Just what you need, the neighbor's feral dragon has decided your keep is it's new home!

Ok, Done. I'll edit and such later, and reduce the noise as I get answers. Or, you know, you can if you like. Whatever.

-jaz

: I would really really like to see a little option pop up. When everything pauses and recenters because the miners struck something new on a level, and it says ... whatever it says... I'd like there to be a (d)ig, (s)trip, (f)orbid option.
::(d)ig would just dig the squares you've already designated.
::(s)trip would designate for mining squares of that type, on that level, /as they are discovered/, even if they aren't currently designated. If it's done "as discovered", you won't neccissarily know how much you're getting until it's done, thus maintaining the mystery. You should still be able to undesignate squares that have been designated automatically.
::(f)orbid would un-designate squares of that type, on that level, as they are discovered.
:That way I don't have my newbie miner failing the attempt to mine out the diamonds. I can just leave them there for later. And if I have 4 levels of mining going on, I can't watch every level all the time to see if a new deposite of something already mentioned shows up, or whatever... I can just say "no, not that" as it's discovered, and all the miners know to leave it, and all other instances of it, alone.

== Noise Reduction (Should I call this "[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] sets me straight" ?? *Teases*) ==
Things that got answered... They will get deleted out all together at some point as I don't want this talks page to be 40 bajillion pages long.

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] distroyed my dreams of milkable cows via the [milkable:33333] tag on 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I cried. Bad you, making girls cry. He also explained on 17:23, 21 May 2009 (UTC) that "Purring Maggots are VERMIN. Read vermin as Item, because that is what they are in game terms. Items that can teleport. Cows, however, are not items. And it is broken."
:I know it's broken. I think /everyone/ knows its broken... I just... I... there you go making me cry again. But thank you for explaining about vermin in short words I can understand. I get it now, I just don't want to. Another question, though... Why are vermin in the creatures raws if they're not creatures? Shouldn't they be in their own raws if they're items?
:And... verminous cows... heee! Oh, sorry, just a thought. (Because yes, I'd trade being able to eat them and get leather from them for the ability to milk them every season.) -- jaz
::Personal cow modding complete. Cows became Lulu, because it amused me to find that "genetic testing of the Dwarf Lulu breed [...] found them to be a mix of European cattle, zebu and yak." New vermin added : Dairy Cow. -- [[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 20:31, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

-
Name and/or data is in contention....

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] (apparently did not tell) me there will be a way of saying "creature A and creature B can breed together to make creature C" in the next release. I mean, where do you think mules come from? I have several donkies of both genders, I have several horses of both genders... every once in a while, instead of getting a donkey foal or a horse foal, I (will, next release) be getting a mule foal... and no, mules still can't breed (IRL, anyways. We'll see about IG).

:Will there also be a way of preventing such things? I mean, if I keep my horses in one vault and my donkies in another, am I going to get a whole seasons worth of foaling turned into mules? -- the ever curious [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]

::I never said that.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:23, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::: It was your sig after the "That will be coming next release" comment. Was that in response to something else? I appologise for attributing to you something you did not say or imply. - jaz

-

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] suggested I look on/post to the forums for my ideas and wants, game wise... apparently quite a few of them were already mentioned. I've removed some from my list. Not that I think they're neccsissarly upcoming, but well, noise reduction. I've posted some already, and some I don't even know how to search for the thread. Then again, worst is worst, someone calls me an idiot and points to the 47 other threads that I'm repeating. I'll only feel rejected and foolish. What's so wrong with that? ... "Teres Draconis ... is concerned about rejection and ridicule." ... Oh, right. Cry me a river. Do it anyways, Jaz.
... doing, doing, done. --[[User:Teres Draconis|-- jaz]] 00:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:You're a noise one, aren't you. It's ok, just lurk around the forum for a while. Use search, which is a little odd, until you realize that there is two different search boxes.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:09, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== Chalk & etc. ==

Nice work, very thorough - but slow down, just for now. On the Main Page discussion, folk are trying to decide whether/how to structure the guidelines, what constitutes "an article" - and they should all be along the same lines. I like your effort - don't want to see it get undone to conform to any new guidelines.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:Thanks! I'll go see if I can find that discussion and maybe point to that in a grab for attention and prase. Yes, the gems. *teases* --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 08:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::If you want to add some new information to a page, it can be done without deleting everything that is already on it. I suggest you stick to minor improvements rather than complete rewritings. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::But the only thing chalk had on it before was, like, three bits of information. 1) it was a sedementary layer stone, 2) i could be used as flux, and 3) it had lots of gems/ore that could be found in it. The first two data bits are still there, and the third one is heavily expanded to the point of actually being informative if someone wants to know "well, what can I find?"
:::Meh, maybe I should put in a redirect here to the convo on the main page's talk tab. ... Not entirely sure how to do that yet, but I know of at least three places where I can find examples so... meh.
::::[[Talk:Main Page]] --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
::::P.S. You're a little overenthusiastic. Chill. Stick to the small things. When you understand how things run around here, THEN start rewriting crap. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-05-21T17:22:32Z

Teres Draconis: /* the sig */

== the sig ==
(pulled from below to form it's own section)

::It's <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>. Comes with built in timestamp.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok, several people have commented in several places (including in that horrible meatspace place... no, not the b(u)tcher shop, the other one) about my, uh, "unusual timestamp". Part of it is that yes, there is a sig button(which I didn't see the first time because there are more than three buttons and I was more concerned with content than italics and such). Yes, there is a nifty tildy thing (which I would, no doubt, forget how many to put in anyways)... but I've gotten used to typing it out by hand, and really. Who cares /when/ it was written? It was written before you read it this time, and after last time (if there was one)... or possibly, if you've read the comment in question a few times, the time three before that. It should be clear in context of who it's responding to (of?) what it was written after, and who commented on it and therefore wrote after it, ...and, really, does it truly change the nature of the universe ''if it was always there and you just didn't notice''??? So, thank you all for your helpful pointing out of things that at one point or other I didn't know. I do really apreciate it because yes, I am new, and no, I don't know everything. And yes, there are still many things I seek to learn. I think, though, I will continue on my merry way, typing it out by hand, with my own unusual timestamp. -- jaz (you're on my page, you don't get a link) ... on this day, sometime after the post being commented on.

:The timestamp is for other people's convenience. Although it seems you think others shouldn't care when something was written, that will not stop them (or me) from wanting to know. Considering it is actually less work for you to let people know than to deprive them of that knowledge, perhaps you should include the timestamp. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:36, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: You are right, of course, in that it is rude of me to go out of my way to annoy people. It's not that, its just. It takes exactly... darnit, uh... Four... four tildies to do the sig with timestamp. Half the time I will do three, and another third of the time I may do five, which leaves a poor sixth of the time I'll actually get four. Part of that is I may not remember (though having counted and "said" it I will remember longer). Part of that is that I typo rather a lot. On the other hand <nowiki>-- [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]</nowiki> is not only in my muscle memory, but it's something I can look up at the sigs of everyone above me and either cut, paste and edit or just type out by looking. The date and time? Much more difficult. I have to remember how far off I am from dwarfwiki standard, remember how far off my computer gets (my computer, strangely, seems to lose a minute and a half every week or so), yada yada blah. I'm lazy. Will people in general be more satisfied if I just leave the date and time blank? ... or maybe I can start remembering to use the blasted button. -- [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] 00:08, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::Button it is. --[[User:Teres Draconis| jaz]] 00:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:::EXAMPLE: Three![[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] Four![[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:07, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Five!17:07, 21 May 2009 (UTC). Very cool, no?

::::You are delightfully strange. I like you. ... just, out of curiousity... how did you get it to do that? ... And why would you want to?

== My personal note taking place ==

A lot of the following is just for my own personal note taking stuff. Feel free to add or comment or whatever. I don't mind.
Some of these questions (are) answered in the forums. I'll go check at some point, until then, this is where I'm storing my questions so I don't forget what it was I wanted to ask. ... the personality tags aught to have one for forgetfulness... which would related directly to how long they continue to think about things that have happened. One who was extremely forgetful might not list "slept in the rain" for as long as someone who had a clear recollection of things long past.

I play three versions of the game, randomly... one, the pure, out of the box, only thing messed with are the init files. Another with minor modifications to things like, oh... domestic cats are spayed when captured (affected by the child tags being replaced with [NO_GENDER])... we'll just pretend that they continue to breed like crazy out in the wilds.

---
For my modding purposes (uh, I've turned the smelter into a store to "buy" stuff from) , if anyone knows the TYPE:SUBTYPE:MATERIAL:MATGLOSS tags for any of the following, please please pretty please share them.

ivory, pearl, coral (I don't care if the creatures still don't drop them. I can "buy" it from my smelter, once I figure out the values for them)

containers with stuff in them. (for example, the cage the cow is in, the bag the sand is in, etc.) I figure the contents have to be listed seperately, but how do you get a barrel full of booze, and not booze in one hand and barrel in the other?... though, hey, now I have the idea for a booze-rfall. Must go attempt.

:Sadly, the boozerfall did not work. Nor the blooderfall that I had going in the smelter next to it (I figured, two trials for the price of one)... Even using a smelter to make a waterfall doesn't work. Apparently, any liquid product from the smelter, even if it is not stackable, does not flow out of the smelter, no matter how many you have... and if you unmake the smelter in the attempt to let it flow, it does not, but rather mysteriously vanishes into the unseen ether.... for my trial I used the (seemingly absurd) number 13,263. Strangely, 13263 waters will not overflow the smelter, nor run down the channels next to it, nor anything. They just sit in the smelter, making it nie impossible to use due to the liquid clutter.

:It would have been glorious, though. The plains flooded with Dwarven Ale. The gentle nurse lowering her bucket into the giant lake of booze to tote back to the wounded soldiers. The Generator [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1292-ubermistgenerator] making sweet smelling (and potentially intoxicating) mists... Sadly, this method does not work. I'll see if I can find another...

::Perhaps if I fill a room with 10000 barrels of booze, and then go mod the melting tempurature of the barrels to really low? Or, hmmm... wonder if you can make barrels out of ice? No, it acts like rock, and there are no rock barrels... except for... so maybe, hmmmm... ok! Gonna go try that next!
:::These things all start as "stacks", not flows, so they don't. I've heard mutterings that certain kinds of cave ins can turn fluid stacks into fluid flows but that's it. Whether it works or not, caving in something on top of a smelter containing a million water would be hilarious...--[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

"plant cheeses"... like, say, tofu. ... how do I get the plants to let me make cheese from the extract? Twice I've tried, twice I've failed. I can keep experimenting, but... eh.

-
For the game designers and those who speak to them (go ahead, claim credit, I'm ok with that)... things I'd like to see in future versions...

a way to mod the workshops themselves. For instance, when I tell the manager I want to make 300 cheeses, I don't want the "make cheese" task to fill up the farmer's workshop I've dedicated to my spinner (making plant thread). I can dedicate /who/ works there. I'd like to dedicate the kinds of tasks that can be performed there, too.

:I know I can make a task repeatable... but if I want to save out 100 of my 400 barrels of milk for direct cooking, and don't want to have to forbid them, unforbid them, etc... besides, this was an example... could just as easily be "make stone toys" at the bone carver's shop.

I'd like to see a tag to put on things like sheep that allows for sheering. I want to make wool cloth without having to slaughter my sheep for them. ... and angoras, too. Poor bunnies. Not that I get cloth now... I get leather still, but...

:Probably would have the same problem as milking currently does. Perhaps when they get around to fixing that, they may put this one in as well... if someone makes them think of it.

I'd like to be able to make dyes from animal products. For instance, there are snails that produce a lovely purple color when crushed. No, I'm not with PETA, how did you guess?

I'd like to be able to dye worked cloth. The dress was made with undyed cloth? Should be easy to fix. I'd also like to be able to redye dyed cloth. In real life it would simply add color but I'd be ok with a "paint over" kind of effect.

Maybe mix dyes to make new colors? ... The only way I can think of right now to mod that in is to have a plant for each of them and then smelt two dyes into something else, red and blue make purple like iron and pig iron make steel.

I think bones (raw hides, skulls, shells) should be binable. I mean, really. I have 10 fishbones a cat's skull and a turtle shell that take up the same floorspace as 12 beds?!? Put them in a bin. On raw hides: it rots. Ok, two choices. One: don't let me bin this. I'll still be happy if I can bin the friggin' bones, shells, skulls. Or, two: The rot spreads to everything it touches, and, since it's "in" something, it produces miasma. Even if the bin is outside. I don't think that "rat remains" and "dog chunks" and such should be binable. I mean, ew. Also, those don't go into the workshop stockpiles for processing. At least, not in /my/ fortresses. ... again, ew.

... One or two last thoughts before I actually post this...

Is there a way to make a mixed group of creatures that spawn together? I mean, take your average herd in Africa. You're going to have zebras and elephants and girraffs and several other things besides, often all walking together. Sure, often you find a herd of just elephants, but often you'll find one or two in a mix of other things as well. And flocks of birds who travel with them, too.

I'm considering adding a new medium-heavy mod that accounts for things like mixed herds, beehives (worker bees, queen bee, guard bees), maybe beemen... though antmen could use this, too. Antmen could maybe have pet Giant Aphids (who, storywise they milk but who aren't tamable to humanoids)...

And, thirdly (I know I said one or two)... feralization. I can keep my tame but unclaimed pets mostly in one area by defining it as a meeting zone... but if I don't... and if they wander off (even if they don't)... I think that if they don't see one of their caretakers for, oh, two seasons (maybe less... maybe a tag that says how quickly?)... they should feralize. Easy way is just to make them go back to being the wild version of that creature. If it's in the wrong biome... uh, oops? Might die sooner? Might get eaten by a grue, I mean, uh... Another way is to make a whole other classification (wild, tame, feral)... maybe it adjusts how aggressive it is. Maybe not. Maybe it adjusts how easily it goes back to being tame. Would this tag be passed on to it's young? Or would the young just be "wild" to start with? If you were near another outpost, city or whatever, would you have their feral creatures start wandering into your area on occasion? Just what you need, the neighbor's feral dragon has decided your keep is it's new home!

Ok, Done. I'll edit and such later, and reduce the noise as I get answers. Or, you know, you can if you like. Whatever.

-jaz

: I would really really like to see a little option pop up. When everything pauses and recenters because the miners struck something new on a level, and it says ... whatever it says... I'd like there to be a (d)ig, (s)trip, (f)orbid option.
::(d)ig would just dig the squares you've already designated.
::(s)trip would designate for mining squares of that type, on that level, /as they are discovered/, even if they aren't currently designated. If it's done "as discovered", you won't neccissarily know how much you're getting until it's done, thus maintaining the mystery. You should still be able to undesignate squares that have been designated automatically.
::(f)orbid would un-designate squares of that type, on that level, as they are discovered.
:That way I don't have my newbie miner failing the attempt to mine out the diamonds. I can just leave them there for later. And if I have 4 levels of mining going on, I can't watch every level all the time to see if a new deposite of something already mentioned shows up, or whatever... I can just say "no, not that" as it's discovered, and all the miners know to leave it, and all other instances of it, alone.

== Noise Reduction ==
Things that got answered... They will get deleted out all together at some point as I don't want this talks page to be 40 bajillion pages long.

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] distroyed my dreams of milkable cows via the [milkable:33333] tag on 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I cried. Bad you, making (potentially pretty, but who can tell through the computer screen) girls cry. No, really. Ok, I admit maybe it's not your fault, but... can you explain why the tag seems to work for the purring maggots? I don't speak geek, so go slowly. The words "hard coded" do not help, btw. I've heard that before.

-

Which brings me to paints. I think there should be a way to make paints. So-and-so likes the color lavender? Paint his room that color. I think that painting things should remove the preference bonuses for things that are made with a prefered material (if she likes oak and green, and all of her oak furnature is painted green, it gets the personal value bonus for green, but not oak.) I'm not sure I stated that clearly, but hey, whatever.

:You do realize that the Great and Mighty Toady One doesn't frequent the wiki, and isn't going to check your wiki talk page anywho. Put it on the forum. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:: I know the other Toady (my sister has been Toady longer than he has, so he's stuck with "the other one" in my mind, even if he is also the /better/ one in my mind) doesn't read these things. That's why I also said that anyone else could bring it to their attention. I'm ok with that.... (I'm not so foolish as to think Giant Toads would even notice a little olm like me.)

::(I whine now, feel free to skip)I have problems with the forum. There's too much stuff there. I can somewhat manage with the wiki because there's less to wade through since I've been wading through it since it was a wee little wiki. I have poor google-fu and don't like repeating a question that's already been answered. Makes me feel foolish and like I didn't bother to research when I just spent an hour looking for it because I worded it differently than they did. But I am happy to try twice more, because you asked.

:::Commented on someone else's string. Added my two bits. Going to go see what other of my noises can be reduced by such activity. - jaz

-

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] tells me there will be a way of saying "creature A and creature B can breed together to make creature C" in the next release. I mean, where do you think mules come from? I have several donkies of both genders, I have several horses of both genders... every once in a while, instead of getting a donkey foal or a horse foal, I (will, next release) be getting a mule foal... and no, mules still can't breed (IRL, anyways. We'll see about IG).

::Will there also be a way of preventing such things? I mean, if I keep my horses in one vault and my donkies in another, am I going to get a whole seasons worth of foaling turned into mules? -- the ever curious [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]

-

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] suggested I look on/post to the forums for my ideas and wants, game wise... apparently quite a few of them were already mentioned. I've removed some from my list. Not that I think they're neccsissarly upcoming, but well, noise reduction. I've posted some already, and some I don't even know how to search for the thread. Then again, worst is worst, someone calls me an idiot and points to the 47 other threads that I'm repeating. I'll only feel rejected and foolish. What's so wrong with that? ... "Teres Draconis ... is concerned about rejection and ridicule." ... Oh, right. Cry me a river. Do it anyways, Jaz.
... doing, doing, done. --[[User:Teres Draconis|-- jaz]] 00:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== Chalk & etc. ==

Nice work, very thorough - but slow down, just for now. On the Main Page discussion, folk are trying to decide whether/how to structure the guidelines, what constitutes "an article" - and they should all be along the same lines. I like your effort - don't want to see it get undone to conform to any new guidelines.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:Thanks! I'll go see if I can find that discussion and maybe point to that in a grab for attention and prase. Yes, the gems. *teases* --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 08:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::If you want to add some new information to a page, it can be done without deleting everything that is already on it. I suggest you stick to minor improvements rather than complete rewritings. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::But the only thing chalk had on it before was, like, three bits of information. 1) it was a sedementary layer stone, 2) i could be used as flux, and 3) it had lots of gems/ore that could be found in it. The first two data bits are still there, and the third one is heavily expanded to the point of actually being informative if someone wants to know "well, what can I find?"
:::Meh, maybe I should put in a redirect here to the convo on the main page's talk tab. ... Not entirely sure how to do that yet, but I know of at least three places where I can find examples so... meh.

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-05-21T17:19:50Z

Teres Draconis: /* Chalk & etc. */ whinging

== the sig ==
(pulled from below to form it's own section)

::It's <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>. Comes with built in timestamp.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok, several people have commented in several places (including in that horrible meatspace place... no, not the b(u)tcher shop, the other one) about my, uh, "unusual timestamp". Part of it is that yes, there is a sig button(which I didn't see the first time because there are more than three buttons and I was more concerned with content than italics and such). Yes, there is a nifty tildy thing (which I would, no doubt, forget how many to put in anyways)... but I've gotten used to typing it out by hand, and really. Who cares /when/ it was written? It was written before you read it this time, and after last time (if there was one)... or possibly, if you've read the comment in question a few times, the time three before that. It should be clear in context of who it's responding to (of?) what it was written after, and who commented on it and therefore wrote after it, ...and, really, does it truly change the nature of the universe ''if it was always there and you just didn't notice''??? So, thank you all for your helpful pointing out of things that at one point or other I didn't know. I do really apreciate it because yes, I am new, and no, I don't know everything. And yes, there are still many things I seek to learn. I think, though, I will continue on my merry way, typing it out by hand, with my own unusual timestamp. -- jaz (you're on my page, you don't get a link) ... on this day, sometime after the post being commented on.

:The timestamp is for other people's convenience. Although it seems you think others shouldn't care when something was written, that will not stop them (or me) from wanting to know. Considering it is actually less work for you to let people know than to deprive them of that knowledge, perhaps you should include the timestamp. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:36, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: You are right, of course, in that it is rude of me to go out of my way to annoy people. It's not that, its just. It takes exactly... darnit, uh... Four... four tildies to do the sig with timestamp. Half the time I will do three, and another third of the time I may do five, which leaves a poor sixth of the time I'll actually get four. Part of that is I may not remember (though having counted and "said" it I will remember longer). Part of that is that I typo rather a lot. On the other hand <nowiki>-- [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]</nowiki> is not only in my muscle memory, but it's something I can look up at the sigs of everyone above me and either cut, paste and edit or just type out by looking. The date and time? Much more difficult. I have to remember how far off I am from dwarfwiki standard, remember how far off my computer gets (my computer, strangely, seems to lose a minute and a half every week or so), yada yada blah. I'm lazy. Will people in general be more satisfied if I just leave the date and time blank? ... or maybe I can start remembering to use the blasted button. -- [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] 00:08, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::Button it is. --[[User:Teres Draconis|-- jaz]] 00:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:::EXAMPLE: Three![[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] Four![[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:07, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Five!17:07, 21 May 2009 (UTC). Very cool, no?

== My personal note taking place ==

A lot of the following is just for my own personal note taking stuff. Feel free to add or comment or whatever. I don't mind.
Some of these questions (are) answered in the forums. I'll go check at some point, until then, this is where I'm storing my questions so I don't forget what it was I wanted to ask. ... the personality tags aught to have one for forgetfulness... which would related directly to how long they continue to think about things that have happened. One who was extremely forgetful might not list "slept in the rain" for as long as someone who had a clear recollection of things long past.

I play three versions of the game, randomly... one, the pure, out of the box, only thing messed with are the init files. Another with minor modifications to things like, oh... domestic cats are spayed when captured (affected by the child tags being replaced with [NO_GENDER])... we'll just pretend that they continue to breed like crazy out in the wilds.

---
For my modding purposes (uh, I've turned the smelter into a store to "buy" stuff from) , if anyone knows the TYPE:SUBTYPE:MATERIAL:MATGLOSS tags for any of the following, please please pretty please share them.

ivory, pearl, coral (I don't care if the creatures still don't drop them. I can "buy" it from my smelter, once I figure out the values for them)

containers with stuff in them. (for example, the cage the cow is in, the bag the sand is in, etc.) I figure the contents have to be listed seperately, but how do you get a barrel full of booze, and not booze in one hand and barrel in the other?... though, hey, now I have the idea for a booze-rfall. Must go attempt.

:Sadly, the boozerfall did not work. Nor the blooderfall that I had going in the smelter next to it (I figured, two trials for the price of one)... Even using a smelter to make a waterfall doesn't work. Apparently, any liquid product from the smelter, even if it is not stackable, does not flow out of the smelter, no matter how many you have... and if you unmake the smelter in the attempt to let it flow, it does not, but rather mysteriously vanishes into the unseen ether.... for my trial I used the (seemingly absurd) number 13,263. Strangely, 13263 waters will not overflow the smelter, nor run down the channels next to it, nor anything. They just sit in the smelter, making it nie impossible to use due to the liquid clutter.

:It would have been glorious, though. The plains flooded with Dwarven Ale. The gentle nurse lowering her bucket into the giant lake of booze to tote back to the wounded soldiers. The Generator [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1292-ubermistgenerator] making sweet smelling (and potentially intoxicating) mists... Sadly, this method does not work. I'll see if I can find another...

::Perhaps if I fill a room with 10000 barrels of booze, and then go mod the melting tempurature of the barrels to really low? Or, hmmm... wonder if you can make barrels out of ice? No, it acts like rock, and there are no rock barrels... except for... so maybe, hmmmm... ok! Gonna go try that next!
:::These things all start as "stacks", not flows, so they don't. I've heard mutterings that certain kinds of cave ins can turn fluid stacks into fluid flows but that's it. Whether it works or not, caving in something on top of a smelter containing a million water would be hilarious...--[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

"plant cheeses"... like, say, tofu. ... how do I get the plants to let me make cheese from the extract? Twice I've tried, twice I've failed. I can keep experimenting, but... eh.

-
For the game designers and those who speak to them (go ahead, claim credit, I'm ok with that)... things I'd like to see in future versions...

a way to mod the workshops themselves. For instance, when I tell the manager I want to make 300 cheeses, I don't want the "make cheese" task to fill up the farmer's workshop I've dedicated to my spinner (making plant thread). I can dedicate /who/ works there. I'd like to dedicate the kinds of tasks that can be performed there, too.

:I know I can make a task repeatable... but if I want to save out 100 of my 400 barrels of milk for direct cooking, and don't want to have to forbid them, unforbid them, etc... besides, this was an example... could just as easily be "make stone toys" at the bone carver's shop.

I'd like to see a tag to put on things like sheep that allows for sheering. I want to make wool cloth without having to slaughter my sheep for them. ... and angoras, too. Poor bunnies. Not that I get cloth now... I get leather still, but...

:Probably would have the same problem as milking currently does. Perhaps when they get around to fixing that, they may put this one in as well... if someone makes them think of it.

I'd like to be able to make dyes from animal products. For instance, there are snails that produce a lovely purple color when crushed. No, I'm not with PETA, how did you guess?

I'd like to be able to dye worked cloth. The dress was made with undyed cloth? Should be easy to fix. I'd also like to be able to redye dyed cloth. In real life it would simply add color but I'd be ok with a "paint over" kind of effect.

Maybe mix dyes to make new colors? ... The only way I can think of right now to mod that in is to have a plant for each of them and then smelt two dyes into something else, red and blue make purple like iron and pig iron make steel.

I think bones (raw hides, skulls, shells) should be binable. I mean, really. I have 10 fishbones a cat's skull and a turtle shell that take up the same floorspace as 12 beds?!? Put them in a bin. On raw hides: it rots. Ok, two choices. One: don't let me bin this. I'll still be happy if I can bin the friggin' bones, shells, skulls. Or, two: The rot spreads to everything it touches, and, since it's "in" something, it produces miasma. Even if the bin is outside. I don't think that "rat remains" and "dog chunks" and such should be binable. I mean, ew. Also, those don't go into the workshop stockpiles for processing. At least, not in /my/ fortresses. ... again, ew.

... One or two last thoughts before I actually post this...

Is there a way to make a mixed group of creatures that spawn together? I mean, take your average herd in Africa. You're going to have zebras and elephants and girraffs and several other things besides, often all walking together. Sure, often you find a herd of just elephants, but often you'll find one or two in a mix of other things as well. And flocks of birds who travel with them, too.

I'm considering adding a new medium-heavy mod that accounts for things like mixed herds, beehives (worker bees, queen bee, guard bees), maybe beemen... though antmen could use this, too. Antmen could maybe have pet Giant Aphids (who, storywise they milk but who aren't tamable to humanoids)...

And, thirdly (I know I said one or two)... feralization. I can keep my tame but unclaimed pets mostly in one area by defining it as a meeting zone... but if I don't... and if they wander off (even if they don't)... I think that if they don't see one of their caretakers for, oh, two seasons (maybe less... maybe a tag that says how quickly?)... they should feralize. Easy way is just to make them go back to being the wild version of that creature. If it's in the wrong biome... uh, oops? Might die sooner? Might get eaten by a grue, I mean, uh... Another way is to make a whole other classification (wild, tame, feral)... maybe it adjusts how aggressive it is. Maybe not. Maybe it adjusts how easily it goes back to being tame. Would this tag be passed on to it's young? Or would the young just be "wild" to start with? If you were near another outpost, city or whatever, would you have their feral creatures start wandering into your area on occasion? Just what you need, the neighbor's feral dragon has decided your keep is it's new home!

Ok, Done. I'll edit and such later, and reduce the noise as I get answers. Or, you know, you can if you like. Whatever.

-jaz

: I would really really like to see a little option pop up. When everything pauses and recenters because the miners struck something new on a level, and it says ... whatever it says... I'd like there to be a (d)ig, (s)trip, (f)orbid option.
::(d)ig would just dig the squares you've already designated.
::(s)trip would designate for mining squares of that type, on that level, /as they are discovered/, even if they aren't currently designated. If it's done "as discovered", you won't neccissarily know how much you're getting until it's done, thus maintaining the mystery. You should still be able to undesignate squares that have been designated automatically.
::(f)orbid would un-designate squares of that type, on that level, as they are discovered.
:That way I don't have my newbie miner failing the attempt to mine out the diamonds. I can just leave them there for later. And if I have 4 levels of mining going on, I can't watch every level all the time to see if a new deposite of something already mentioned shows up, or whatever... I can just say "no, not that" as it's discovered, and all the miners know to leave it, and all other instances of it, alone.

== Noise Reduction ==
Things that got answered... They will get deleted out all together at some point as I don't want this talks page to be 40 bajillion pages long.

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] distroyed my dreams of milkable cows via the [milkable:33333] tag on 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I cried. Bad you, making (potentially pretty, but who can tell through the computer screen) girls cry. No, really. Ok, I admit maybe it's not your fault, but... can you explain why the tag seems to work for the purring maggots? I don't speak geek, so go slowly. The words "hard coded" do not help, btw. I've heard that before.

-

Which brings me to paints. I think there should be a way to make paints. So-and-so likes the color lavender? Paint his room that color. I think that painting things should remove the preference bonuses for things that are made with a prefered material (if she likes oak and green, and all of her oak furnature is painted green, it gets the personal value bonus for green, but not oak.) I'm not sure I stated that clearly, but hey, whatever.

:You do realize that the Great and Mighty Toady One doesn't frequent the wiki, and isn't going to check your wiki talk page anywho. Put it on the forum. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:: I know the other Toady (my sister has been Toady longer than he has, so he's stuck with "the other one" in my mind, even if he is also the /better/ one in my mind) doesn't read these things. That's why I also said that anyone else could bring it to their attention. I'm ok with that.... (I'm not so foolish as to think Giant Toads would even notice a little olm like me.)

::(I whine now, feel free to skip)I have problems with the forum. There's too much stuff there. I can somewhat manage with the wiki because there's less to wade through since I've been wading through it since it was a wee little wiki. I have poor google-fu and don't like repeating a question that's already been answered. Makes me feel foolish and like I didn't bother to research when I just spent an hour looking for it because I worded it differently than they did. But I am happy to try twice more, because you asked.

:::Commented on someone else's string. Added my two bits. Going to go see what other of my noises can be reduced by such activity. - jaz

-

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] tells me there will be a way of saying "creature A and creature B can breed together to make creature C" in the next release. I mean, where do you think mules come from? I have several donkies of both genders, I have several horses of both genders... every once in a while, instead of getting a donkey foal or a horse foal, I (will, next release) be getting a mule foal... and no, mules still can't breed (IRL, anyways. We'll see about IG).

::Will there also be a way of preventing such things? I mean, if I keep my horses in one vault and my donkies in another, am I going to get a whole seasons worth of foaling turned into mules? -- the ever curious [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]

-

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] suggested I look on/post to the forums for my ideas and wants, game wise... apparently quite a few of them were already mentioned. I've removed some from my list. Not that I think they're neccsissarly upcoming, but well, noise reduction. I've posted some already, and some I don't even know how to search for the thread. Then again, worst is worst, someone calls me an idiot and points to the 47 other threads that I'm repeating. I'll only feel rejected and foolish. What's so wrong with that? ... "Teres Draconis ... is concerned about rejection and ridicule." ... Oh, right. Cry me a river. Do it anyways, Jaz.
... doing, doing, done. --[[User:Teres Draconis|-- jaz]] 00:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== Chalk & etc. ==

Nice work, very thorough - but slow down, just for now. On the Main Page discussion, folk are trying to decide whether/how to structure the guidelines, what constitutes "an article" - and they should all be along the same lines. I like your effort - don't want to see it get undone to conform to any new guidelines.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:Thanks! I'll go see if I can find that discussion and maybe point to that in a grab for attention and prase. Yes, the gems. *teases* --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 08:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::If you want to add some new information to a page, it can be done without deleting everything that is already on it. I suggest you stick to minor improvements rather than complete rewritings. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:::But the only thing chalk had on it before was, like, three bits of information. 1) it was a sedementary layer stone, 2) i could be used as flux, and 3) it had lots of gems/ore that could be found in it. The first two data bits are still there, and the third one is heavily expanded to the point of actually being informative if someone wants to know "well, what can I find?"
:::Meh, maybe I should put in a redirect here to the convo on the main page's talk tab. ... Not entirely sure how to do that yet, but I know of at least three places where I can find examples so... meh.

Talk:Main Page/archive2

2009-05-21T08:28:59Z

Teres Draconis: /* Articles on Olivine and other generic stones */ blatant fishing. Please, no Carp.

User talk:Albedo

2009-05-21T08:11:19Z

Teres Draconis: a question to which you seem to know the answer...

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-05-21T08:01:57Z

Teres Draconis: /* Chalk & etc. */ reply

== the sig ==
(pulled from below to form it's own section)

::It's <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>. Comes with built in timestamp.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok, several people have commented in several places (including in that horrible meatspace place... no, not the b(u)tcher shop, the other one) about my, uh, "unusual timestamp". Part of it is that yes, there is a sig button(which I didn't see the first time because there are more than three buttons and I was more concerned with content than italics and such). Yes, there is a nifty tildy thing (which I would, no doubt, forget how many to put in anyways)... but I've gotten used to typing it out by hand, and really. Who cares /when/ it was written? It was written before you read it this time, and after last time (if there was one)... or possibly, if you've read the comment in question a few times, the time three before that. It should be clear in context of who it's responding to (of?) what it was written after, and who commented on it and therefore wrote after it, ...and, really, does it truly change the nature of the universe ''if it was always there and you just didn't notice''??? So, thank you all for your helpful pointing out of things that at one point or other I didn't know. I do really apreciate it because yes, I am new, and no, I don't know everything. And yes, there are still many things I seek to learn. I think, though, I will continue on my merry way, typing it out by hand, with my own unusual timestamp. -- jaz (you're on my page, you don't get a link) ... on this day, sometime after the post being commented on.

:The timestamp is for other people's convenience. Although it seems you think others shouldn't care when something was written, that will not stop them (or me) from wanting to know. Considering it is actually less work for you to let people know than to deprive them of that knowledge, perhaps you should include the timestamp. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:36, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: You are right, of course, in that it is rude of me to go out of my way to annoy people. It's not that, its just. It takes exactly... darnit, uh... Four... four tildies to do the sig with timestamp. Half the time I will do three, and another third of the time I may do five, which leaves a poor sixth of the time I'll actually get four. Part of that is I may not remember (though having counted and "said" it I will remember longer). Part of that is that I typo rather a lot. On the other hand <nowiki>-- [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]</nowiki> is not only in my muscle memory, but it's something I can look up at the sigs of everyone above me and either cut, paste and edit or just type out by looking. The date and time? Much more difficult. I have to remember how far off I am from dwarfwiki standard, remember how far off my computer gets (my computer, strangely, seems to lose a minute and a half every week or so), yada yada blah. I'm lazy. Will people in general be more satisfied if I just leave the date and time blank? ... or maybe I can start remembering to use the blasted button. -- [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] 00:08, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::Button it is. --[[User:Teres Draconis|-- jaz]] 00:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== My personal note taking place ==

A lot of the following is just for my own personal note taking stuff. Feel free to add or comment or whatever. I don't mind.
Some of these questions (are) answered in the forums. I'll go check at some point, until then, this is where I'm storing my questions so I don't forget what it was I wanted to ask. ... the personality tags aught to have one for forgetfulness... which would related directly to how long they continue to think about things that have happened. One who was extremely forgetful might not list "slept in the rain" for as long as someone who had a clear recollection of things long past.

I play three versions of the game, randomly... one, the pure, out of the box, only thing messed with are the init files. Another with minor modifications to things like, oh... domestic cats are spayed when captured (affected by the child tags being replaced with [NO_GENDER])... we'll just pretend that they continue to breed like crazy out in the wilds.

---
For my modding purposes (uh, I've turned the smelter into a store to "buy" stuff from) , if anyone knows the TYPE:SUBTYPE:MATERIAL:MATGLOSS tags for any of the following, please please pretty please share them.

ivory, pearl, coral (I don't care if the creatures still don't drop them. I can "buy" it from my smelter, once I figure out the values for them)

containers with stuff in them. (for example, the cage the cow is in, the bag the sand is in, etc.) I figure the contents have to be listed seperately, but how do you get a barrel full of booze, and not booze in one hand and barrel in the other?... though, hey, now I have the idea for a booze-rfall. Must go attempt.

:Sadly, the boozerfall did not work. Nor the blooderfall that I had going in the smelter next to it (I figured, two trials for the price of one)... Even using a smelter to make a waterfall doesn't work. Apparently, any liquid product from the smelter, even if it is not stackable, does not flow out of the smelter, no matter how many you have... and if you unmake the smelter in the attempt to let it flow, it does not, but rather mysteriously vanishes into the unseen ether.... for my trial I used the (seemingly absurd) number 13,263. Strangely, 13263 waters will not overflow the smelter, nor run down the channels next to it, nor anything. They just sit in the smelter, making it nie impossible to use due to the liquid clutter.

:It would have been glorious, though. The plains flooded with Dwarven Ale. The gentle nurse lowering her bucket into the giant lake of booze to tote back to the wounded soldiers. The Generator [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1292-ubermistgenerator] making sweet smelling (and potentially intoxicating) mists... Sadly, this method does not work. I'll see if I can find another...

::Perhaps if I fill a room with 10000 barrels of booze, and then go mod the melting tempurature of the barrels to really low? Or, hmmm... wonder if you can make barrels out of ice? No, it acts like rock, and there are no rock barrels... except for... so maybe, hmmmm... ok! Gonna go try that next!

"plant cheeses"... like, say, tofu. ... how do I get the plants to let me make cheese from the extract? Twice I've tried, twice I've failed. I can keep experimenting, but... eh.

-
For the game designers and those who speak to them (go ahead, claim credit, I'm ok with that)... things I'd like to see in future versions...

a way to mod the workshops themselves. For instance, when I tell the manager I want to make 300 cheeses, I don't want the "make cheese" task to fill up the farmer's workshop I've dedicated to my spinner (making plant thread). I can dedicate /who/ works there. I'd like to dedicate the kinds of tasks that can be performed there, too.

:I know I can make a task repeatable... but if I want to save out 100 of my 400 barrels of milk for direct cooking, and don't want to have to forbid them, unforbid them, etc... besides, this was an example... could just as easily be "make stone toys" at the bone carver's shop.

I'd like to see a tag to put on things like sheep that allows for sheering. I want to make wool cloth without having to slaughter my sheep for them. ... and angoras, too. Poor bunnies. Not that I get cloth now... I get leather still, but...

:Probably would have the same problem as milking currently does. Perhaps when they get around to fixing that, they may put this one in as well... if someone makes them think of it.

I'd like to be able to make dyes from animal products. For instance, there are snails that produce a lovely purple color when crushed. No, I'm not with PETA, how did you guess?

I'd like to be able to dye worked cloth. The dress was made with undyed cloth? Should be easy to fix. I'd also like to be able to redye dyed cloth. In real life it would simply add color but I'd be ok with a "paint over" kind of effect.

Maybe mix dyes to make new colors? ... The only way I can think of right now to mod that in is to have a plant for each of them and then smelt two dyes into something else, red and blue make purple like iron and pig iron make steel.

I think bones (raw hides, skulls, shells) should be binable. I mean, really. I have 10 fishbones a cat's skull and a turtle shell that take up the same floorspace as 12 beds?!? Put them in a bin. On raw hides: it rots. Ok, two choices. One: don't let me bin this. I'll still be happy if I can bin the friggin' bones, shells, skulls. Or, two: The rot spreads to everything it touches, and, since it's "in" something, it produces miasma. Even if the bin is outside. I don't think that "rat remains" and "dog chunks" and such should be binable. I mean, ew. Also, those don't go into the workshop stockpiles for processing. At least, not in /my/ fortresses. ... again, ew.

... One or two last thoughts before I actually post this...

Is there a way to make a mixed group of creatures that spawn together? I mean, take your average herd in Africa. You're going to have zebras and elephants and girraffs and several other things besides, often all walking together. Sure, often you find a herd of just elephants, but often you'll find one or two in a mix of other things as well. And flocks of birds who travel with them, too.

I'm considering adding a new medium-heavy mod that accounts for things like mixed herds, beehives (worker bees, queen bee, guard bees), maybe beemen... though antmen could use this, too. Antmen could maybe have pet Giant Aphids (who, storywise they milk but who aren't tamable to humanoids)...

And, thirdly (I know I said one or two)... feralization. I can keep my tame but unclaimed pets mostly in one area by defining it as a meeting zone... but if I don't... and if they wander off (even if they don't)... I think that if they don't see one of their caretakers for, oh, two seasons (maybe less... maybe a tag that says how quickly?)... they should feralize. Easy way is just to make them go back to being the wild version of that creature. If it's in the wrong biome... uh, oops? Might die sooner? Might get eaten by a grue, I mean, uh... Another way is to make a whole other classification (wild, tame, feral)... maybe it adjusts how aggressive it is. Maybe not. Maybe it adjusts how easily it goes back to being tame. Would this tag be passed on to it's young? Or would the young just be "wild" to start with? If you were near another outpost, city or whatever, would you have their feral creatures start wandering into your area on occasion? Just what you need, the neighbor's feral dragon has decided your keep is it's new home!

Ok, Done. I'll edit and such later, and reduce the noise as I get answers. Or, you know, you can if you like. Whatever.

-jaz

: I would really really like to see a little option pop up. When everything pauses and recenters because the miners struck something new on a level, and it says ... whatever it says... I'd like there to be a (d)ig, (s)trip, (f)orbid option.
::(d)ig would just dig the squares you've already designated.
::(s)trip would designate for mining squares of that type, on that level, /as they are discovered/, even if they aren't currently designated. If it's done "as discovered", you won't neccissarily know how much you're getting until it's done, thus maintaining the mystery. You should still be able to undesignate squares that have been designated automatically.
::(f)orbid would un-designate squares of that type, on that level, as they are discovered.
:That way I don't have my newbie miner failing the attempt to mine out the diamonds. I can just leave them there for later. And if I have 4 levels of mining going on, I can't watch every level all the time to see if a new deposite of something already mentioned shows up, or whatever... I can just say "no, not that" as it's discovered, and all the miners know to leave it, and all other instances of it, alone.

== Noise Reduction ==
Things that got answered... They will get deleted out all together at some point as I don't want this talks page to be 40 bajillion pages long.

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] distroyed my dreams of milkable cows via the [milkable:33333] tag on 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I cried. Bad you, making (potentially pretty, but who can tell through the computer screen) girls cry. No, really. Ok, I admit maybe it's not your fault, but... can you explain why the tag seems to work for the purring maggots? I don't speak geek, so go slowly. The words "hard coded" do not help, btw. I've heard that before.

-

Which brings me to paints. I think there should be a way to make paints. So-and-so likes the color lavender? Paint his room that color. I think that painting things should remove the preference bonuses for things that are made with a prefered material (if she likes oak and green, and all of her oak furnature is painted green, it gets the personal value bonus for green, but not oak.) I'm not sure I stated that clearly, but hey, whatever.

:You do realize that the Great and Mighty Toady One doesn't frequent the wiki, and isn't going to check your wiki talk page anywho. Put it on the forum. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:: I know the other Toady (my sister has been Toady longer than he has, so he's stuck with "the other one" in my mind, even if he is also the /better/ one in my mind) doesn't read these things. That's why I also said that anyone else could bring it to their attention. I'm ok with that.... (I'm not so foolish as to think Giant Toads would even notice a little olm like me.)

::(I whine now, feel free to skip)I have problems with the forum. There's too much stuff there. I can somewhat manage with the wiki because there's less to wade through since I've been wading through it since it was a wee little wiki. I have poor google-fu and don't like repeating a question that's already been answered. Makes me feel foolish and like I didn't bother to research when I just spent an hour looking for it because I worded it differently than they did. But I am happy to try twice more, because you asked.

:::Commented on someone else's string. Added my two bits. Going to go see what other of my noises can be reduced by such activity. - jaz

-

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] tells me there will be a way of saying "creature A and creature B can breed together to make creature C" in the next release. I mean, where do you think mules come from? I have several donkies of both genders, I have several horses of both genders... every once in a while, instead of getting a donkey foal or a horse foal, I (will, next release) be getting a mule foal... and no, mules still can't breed (IRL, anyways. We'll see about IG).

::Will there also be a way of preventing such things? I mean, if I keep my horses in one vault and my donkies in another, am I going to get a whole seasons worth of foaling turned into mules? -- the ever curious [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]

-

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] suggested I look on/post to the forums for my ideas and wants, game wise... apparently quite a few of them were already mentioned. I've removed some from my list. Not that I think they're neccsissarly upcoming, but well, noise reduction. I've posted some already, and some I don't even know how to search for the thread. Then again, worst is worst, someone calls me an idiot and points to the 47 other threads that I'm repeating. I'll only feel rejected and foolish. What's so wrong with that? ... "Teres Draconis ... is concerned about rejection and ridicule." ... Oh, right. Cry me a river. Do it anyways, Jaz.
... doing, doing, done. --[[User:Teres Draconis|-- jaz]] 00:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== Chalk & etc. ==

Nice work, very thorough - but slow down, just for now. On the Main Page discussion, folk are trying to decide whether/how to structure the guidelines, what constitutes "an article" - and they should all be along the same lines. I like your effort - don't want to see it get undone to conform to any new guidelines.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:Thanks! I'll go see if I can find that discussion and maybe point to that in a grab for attention and prase. Yes, the gems. *teases* --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 08:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

40d:Chalk

2009-05-21T07:59:39Z

Teres Draconis: /* Where chalk is found */ minor edit

== Minor relavant data bits ==
(yes, it can be found in the raws)

Color = White

Value mod = 2

Flux stone = Yes

Coal stone = no

== Where chalk is found ==
Chalk is a [[Sedimentary layer]] stone. It can be found covering large swaths of individual layers, and often covers several layers in a given

48x48 area. Chalk will show up in the list of layer stones for a region, on the [[world map]].

== Stones found in Chalk ==

=== '''Stones found directly in chalk''' ===

{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"
|-
! Icons
! Name
! Found in
! Found how
|-
|{{Raw Tile|+|#800|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#800|#000}}||[[Bauxite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|☼|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|☼|#888|#000}}||[[Bituminous coal]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Veins
|-
|{{Raw Tile|"|#FFF|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[[Calcite]]||Limestone, Marble||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|#|#ff0|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FF0|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsum Gypsum]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|░|#888|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#888|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_(lignite) Jet]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|=|#800|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#800|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaolinite Kaolinite]||All [[:Category:Sedimentary Stone Layers|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|*|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#888|#000}}||[[Lignite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Veins
|-
|{{Raw Tile|%|#0ff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#0FF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcline Microcline]||All Stone||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|%|#f00|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#F00|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrified_wood Petrified wood]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|x|#ff0|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FF0|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltpeter Saltpeter]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Small clusters
|}

=== '''Stones found in other stones that are found in chalk''' ===

{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"
|-
! Icons
! Name
! Found in
! Found how
|-
|{{Raw Tile|^|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alabaster Alabaster]||Gypsum||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|`|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alunite Alunite]||All [[Igneous extrusive layer|Igneous extrusive]], Kaolinite||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|v|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#ccc|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhydrite Anhydrite]||Gypsum, Satinspar, Alabaster, Selenite||Single
|-
|{{Raw Tile|`|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax Borax]||Gypsum, Rock salt||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|%|#ff0|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FF0|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brimstone Brimstone]||All [[Igneous extrusive layer|Igneous extrusive]], Gypsum||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|%|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcasite Marcasite]||Kaolinite||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|-|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satinspar Satinspar]||Gypsum||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|;|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selenite Selenite]||Gypsum||Small clusters
|}

== Ores found in Chalk ==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Ore
! Found in
! Found how
! Metal created
! Value
! Metal value
|-
|[[Hematite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]], All [[:Igneous extrusive layer|Igneous extrusive]]||Veins||[[Iron]]||8||10
|-
|[[Limonite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Veins||[[Iron]]||8||10
|-
|[[Magnetite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters||[[Iron]]||8||10
|-
|[[Platinum nuggets]]||All [[soil|Alluvial]], [[Olivine]], [[Magnetite]], [[Chromite]]||Small clusters||[[Platinum]]||40||40
|-
|[[Tetrahedrite]]||All [[Stone]]||Veins||[[Copper]], [[Silver|Silver (20%)]]||3||2 (10)
|}

== Gems found in Chalk ==

=== '''Gems found directly in chalk''' ===

==== ''Ornamental'' ====
{{Gem table head}}
{{Gem table row|name=amber opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=aventurine|value=3×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=banded agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=bloodstone|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=bone opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=brown jasper|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=carnelian|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=cherry opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=chrysoprase|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|H|#0f0|#0f0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=citrine|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=dendritic agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=fire agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=fortification agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=gold opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=gray chalcedony|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=jasper opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=lace agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|D|#00f|#00f}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=milk opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=milk quartz|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=morion|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|K|#888|#888}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=moss agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=moss opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=onyx opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=onyx|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|K|#888|#888}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=picture jasper|value=3×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pineapple opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pipe opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=plume agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=prase opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=prase|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pyrite|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=resin opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=rock crystal|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=rose quartz|value=3×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=sardonyx|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=sard|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=schorl|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|K|#888|#888}}|fwhere=Metamorphic, Sedimentary, Granite|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=shell opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=smoky quartz|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=tiger iron|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=tigereye|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=tube agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=wax opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=white chalcedony|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=wood opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=yellow jasper|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
|}

==== ''Semi-Precious'' ====
{{Gem table head}}
{{Gem table row|name=amethyst|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|L|#f0f|#f0f}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=bandfire opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=black opal|value=30×|color={{Raw Tile|K|#888|#888}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=claro opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|D|#00f|#00f}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=crystal opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=fire opal|value=15×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=green tourmaline|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=Metamorphic, Sedimentary, Granite|fhow= Small

clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=harlequin opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=jelly opal|value=15×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=levin opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pinfire opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pink tourmaline|value=15×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=Metamorphic, Sedimentary, Granite|fhow= Small

clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=precious fire opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=red flash opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=red tourmaline|value=15×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Metamorphic, Sedimentary, Granite|fhow= Small

clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=white opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
|}

=== '''Gems found in other stones that are found in chalk''' ===

==== ''Ornamental'' ====
{{Gem table head}}
{{Gem table row|name=turquoise|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|D|#00f|#00f}}|fwhere=Igneous extrusive, Kaolinite, Granite|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=variscite|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=Bauxite|fhow= Small clusters}}
|}

==== ''Precious and Rare'' ====
{{Gem table head}}
{{Gem table row|name=ruby|value=40×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Bauxite|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=sapphire|value=40×|color={{Raw Tile|N|#00a|#00a}}|fwhere=Bauxite|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=star ruby|value=60×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=Ruby|fhow= Single gem}}
{{Gem table row|name=star sapphire|value=60×|color={{Raw Tile|D|#00f|#00f}}|fwhere=Sapphire|fhow= Single gem}}
|}

== The Raws ==

{{Game_Data|[MATGLOSS_STONE:CHALK]
[NAME:chalk][COLOR:7:7:1][TILE:176][REACTION_CLASS:FLUX]
[SEDIMENTARY]
[VALUE:2]
}}

40d:Chalk

2009-05-21T07:56:31Z

Teres Draconis: /* Stones found in other stones that are found in chalk */ typos... how did that happen?!?

== Minor relavant data bits ==
(yes, it can be found in the raws)

Color = White

Value mod = 2

Flux stone = Yes

Coal stone = no

== Where chalk is found ==
Chalk is a sedementary layer stone. It can be found covering large swaths of individual layers, and often covers several layers in a given

48x48 area. Chalk will show up in the list of layer stones for a region, in the embark screen.

== Stones found in Chalk ==

=== '''Stones found directly in chalk''' ===

{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"
|-
! Icons
! Name
! Found in
! Found how
|-
|{{Raw Tile|+|#800|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#800|#000}}||[[Bauxite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|☼|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|☼|#888|#000}}||[[Bituminous coal]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Veins
|-
|{{Raw Tile|"|#FFF|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[[Calcite]]||Limestone, Marble||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|#|#ff0|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FF0|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsum Gypsum]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|░|#888|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#888|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_(lignite) Jet]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|=|#800|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#800|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaolinite Kaolinite]||All [[:Category:Sedimentary Stone Layers|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|*|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#888|#000}}||[[Lignite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Veins
|-
|{{Raw Tile|%|#0ff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#0FF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcline Microcline]||All Stone||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|%|#f00|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#F00|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrified_wood Petrified wood]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|x|#ff0|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FF0|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltpeter Saltpeter]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Small clusters
|}

=== '''Stones found in other stones that are found in chalk''' ===

{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"
|-
! Icons
! Name
! Found in
! Found how
|-
|{{Raw Tile|^|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alabaster Alabaster]||Gypsum||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|`|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alunite Alunite]||All [[Igneous extrusive layer|Igneous extrusive]], Kaolinite||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|v|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#ccc|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhydrite Anhydrite]||Gypsum, Satinspar, Alabaster, Selenite||Single
|-
|{{Raw Tile|`|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax Borax]||Gypsum, Rock salt||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|%|#ff0|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FF0|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brimstone Brimstone]||All [[Igneous extrusive layer|Igneous extrusive]], Gypsum||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|%|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcasite Marcasite]||Kaolinite||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|-|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satinspar Satinspar]||Gypsum||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|;|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selenite Selenite]||Gypsum||Small clusters
|}

== Ores found in Chalk ==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Ore
! Found in
! Found how
! Metal created
! Value
! Metal value
|-
|[[Hematite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]], All [[:Igneous extrusive layer|Igneous extrusive]]||Veins||[[Iron]]||8||10
|-
|[[Limonite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Veins||[[Iron]]||8||10
|-
|[[Magnetite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters||[[Iron]]||8||10
|-
|[[Platinum nuggets]]||All [[soil|Alluvial]], [[Olivine]], [[Magnetite]], [[Chromite]]||Small clusters||[[Platinum]]||40||40
|-
|[[Tetrahedrite]]||All [[Stone]]||Veins||[[Copper]], [[Silver|Silver (20%)]]||3||2 (10)
|}

== Gems found in Chalk ==

=== '''Gems found directly in chalk''' ===

==== ''Ornamental'' ====
{{Gem table head}}
{{Gem table row|name=amber opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=aventurine|value=3×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=banded agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=bloodstone|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=bone opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=brown jasper|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=carnelian|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=cherry opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=chrysoprase|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|H|#0f0|#0f0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=citrine|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=dendritic agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=fire agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=fortification agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=gold opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=gray chalcedony|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=jasper opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=lace agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|D|#00f|#00f}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=milk opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=milk quartz|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=morion|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|K|#888|#888}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=moss agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=moss opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=onyx opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=onyx|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|K|#888|#888}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=picture jasper|value=3×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pineapple opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pipe opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=plume agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=prase opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=prase|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pyrite|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=resin opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=rock crystal|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=rose quartz|value=3×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=sardonyx|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=sard|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=schorl|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|K|#888|#888}}|fwhere=Metamorphic, Sedimentary, Granite|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=shell opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=smoky quartz|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=tiger iron|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=tigereye|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=tube agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=wax opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=white chalcedony|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=wood opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=yellow jasper|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
|}

==== ''Semi-Precious'' ====
{{Gem table head}}
{{Gem table row|name=amethyst|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|L|#f0f|#f0f}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=bandfire opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=black opal|value=30×|color={{Raw Tile|K|#888|#888}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=claro opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|D|#00f|#00f}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=crystal opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=fire opal|value=15×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=green tourmaline|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=Metamorphic, Sedimentary, Granite|fhow= Small

clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=harlequin opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=jelly opal|value=15×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=levin opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pinfire opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pink tourmaline|value=15×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=Metamorphic, Sedimentary, Granite|fhow= Small

clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=precious fire opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=red flash opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=red tourmaline|value=15×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Metamorphic, Sedimentary, Granite|fhow= Small

clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=white opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
|}

=== '''Gems found in other stones that are found in chalk''' ===

==== ''Ornamental'' ====
{{Gem table head}}
{{Gem table row|name=turquoise|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|D|#00f|#00f}}|fwhere=Igneous extrusive, Kaolinite, Granite|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=variscite|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=Bauxite|fhow= Small clusters}}
|}

==== ''Precious and Rare'' ====
{{Gem table head}}
{{Gem table row|name=ruby|value=40×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Bauxite|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=sapphire|value=40×|color={{Raw Tile|N|#00a|#00a}}|fwhere=Bauxite|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=star ruby|value=60×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=Ruby|fhow= Single gem}}
{{Gem table row|name=star sapphire|value=60×|color={{Raw Tile|D|#00f|#00f}}|fwhere=Sapphire|fhow= Single gem}}
|}

== The Raws ==

{{Game_Data|[MATGLOSS_STONE:CHALK]
[NAME:chalk][COLOR:7:7:1][TILE:176][REACTION_CLASS:FLUX]
[SEDIMENTARY]
[VALUE:2]
}}

40d:Chalk

2009-05-21T07:55:11Z

Teres Draconis: /* Stones found directly in chalk */ typos... how did that happen?!?

== Minor relavant data bits ==
(yes, it can be found in the raws)

Color = White

Value mod = 2

Flux stone = Yes

Coal stone = no

== Where chalk is found ==
Chalk is a sedementary layer stone. It can be found covering large swaths of individual layers, and often covers several layers in a given

48x48 area. Chalk will show up in the list of layer stones for a region, in the embark screen.

== Stones found in Chalk ==

=== '''Stones found directly in chalk''' ===

{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"
|-
! Icons
! Name
! Found in
! Found how
|-
|{{Raw Tile|+|#800|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#800|#000}}||[[Bauxite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|☼|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|☼|#888|#000}}||[[Bituminous coal]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Veins
|-
|{{Raw Tile|"|#FFF|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[[Calcite]]||Limestone, Marble||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|#|#ff0|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FF0|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsum Gypsum]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|░|#888|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#888|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_(lignite) Jet]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|=|#800|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#800|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaolinite Kaolinite]||All [[:Category:Sedimentary Stone Layers|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|*|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#888|#000}}||[[Lignite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Veins
|-
|{{Raw Tile|%|#0ff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#0FF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcline Microcline]||All Stone||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|%|#f00|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#F00|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrified_wood Petrified wood]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|x|#ff0|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FF0|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltpeter Saltpeter]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Small clusters
|}

=== '''Stones found in other stones that are found in chalk''' ===

{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"
|-
! Icons
! Name
! Found in
! Found how
|-
|{{Raw Tile|^|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alabaster Alabaster]||Gypsum||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|`|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alunite Alunite]||All [[Igneous extrusive layer|Igneous

extrusive]], Kaolinite||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|v|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#ccc|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhydrite Anhydrite]||Gypsum, Satinspar, Alabaster,

Selenite||Single
|-
|{{Raw Tile|`|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax Borax]||Gypsum, Rock salt||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|%|#ff0|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FF0|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brimstone Brimstone]||All [[Igneous extrusive

layer|Igneous extrusive]], Gypsum||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|%|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcasite Marcasite]||Kaolinite||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|-|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satinspar Satinspar]||Gypsum||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|;|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selenite Selenite]||Gypsum||Small clusters
|}

== Ores found in Chalk ==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Ore
! Found in
! Found how
! Metal created
! Value
! Metal value
|-
|[[Hematite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]], All [[:Igneous extrusive layer|Igneous extrusive]]||Veins||[[Iron]]||8||10
|-
|[[Limonite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Veins||[[Iron]]||8||10
|-
|[[Magnetite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters||[[Iron]]||8||10
|-
|[[Platinum nuggets]]||All [[soil|Alluvial]], [[Olivine]], [[Magnetite]], [[Chromite]]||Small clusters||[[Platinum]]||40||40
|-
|[[Tetrahedrite]]||All [[Stone]]||Veins||[[Copper]], [[Silver|Silver (20%)]]||3||2 (10)
|}

== Gems found in Chalk ==

=== '''Gems found directly in chalk''' ===

==== ''Ornamental'' ====
{{Gem table head}}
{{Gem table row|name=amber opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=aventurine|value=3×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=banded agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=bloodstone|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=bone opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=brown jasper|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=carnelian|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=cherry opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=chrysoprase|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|H|#0f0|#0f0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=citrine|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=dendritic agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=fire agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=fortification agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=gold opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=gray chalcedony|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=jasper opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=lace agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|D|#00f|#00f}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=milk opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=milk quartz|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=morion|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|K|#888|#888}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=moss agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=moss opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=onyx opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=onyx|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|K|#888|#888}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=picture jasper|value=3×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pineapple opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pipe opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=plume agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=prase opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=prase|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pyrite|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=resin opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=rock crystal|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=rose quartz|value=3×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=sardonyx|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=sard|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=schorl|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|K|#888|#888}}|fwhere=Metamorphic, Sedimentary, Granite|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=shell opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=smoky quartz|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=tiger iron|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=tigereye|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=tube agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=wax opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=white chalcedony|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=wood opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=yellow jasper|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
|}

==== ''Semi-Precious'' ====
{{Gem table head}}
{{Gem table row|name=amethyst|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|L|#f0f|#f0f}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=bandfire opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=black opal|value=30×|color={{Raw Tile|K|#888|#888}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=claro opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|D|#00f|#00f}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=crystal opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=fire opal|value=15×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=green tourmaline|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=Metamorphic, Sedimentary, Granite|fhow= Small

clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=harlequin opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=jelly opal|value=15×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=levin opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pinfire opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pink tourmaline|value=15×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=Metamorphic, Sedimentary, Granite|fhow= Small

clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=precious fire opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=red flash opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=red tourmaline|value=15×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Metamorphic, Sedimentary, Granite|fhow= Small

clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=white opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
|}

=== '''Gems found in other stones that are found in chalk''' ===

==== ''Ornamental'' ====
{{Gem table head}}
{{Gem table row|name=turquoise|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|D|#00f|#00f}}|fwhere=Igneous extrusive, Kaolinite, Granite|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=variscite|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=Bauxite|fhow= Small clusters}}
|}

==== ''Precious and Rare'' ====
{{Gem table head}}
{{Gem table row|name=ruby|value=40×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Bauxite|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=sapphire|value=40×|color={{Raw Tile|N|#00a|#00a}}|fwhere=Bauxite|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=star ruby|value=60×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=Ruby|fhow= Single gem}}
{{Gem table row|name=star sapphire|value=60×|color={{Raw Tile|D|#00f|#00f}}|fwhere=Sapphire|fhow= Single gem}}
|}

== The Raws ==

{{Game_Data|[MATGLOSS_STONE:CHALK]
[NAME:chalk][COLOR:7:7:1][TILE:176][REACTION_CLASS:FLUX]
[SEDIMENTARY]
[VALUE:2]
}}

User:Teres Draconis

2009-05-21T07:50:11Z

Teres Draconis: What I did today in DF area

Teres Draconis has been quite content lately. She has slept in a fine bedroom lately. She ate a wonderful meal lately. She has admired own fine table lately. She has complained of the lack of chairs lately. She has complained of thirst lately. She was comforted by a wonderful creature in a cage lately. She was annoyed by flies lately.
She is romanticly involved with <message redacted>. She is a casual worshiper of Mari the Chalice of Life.
She is a citizen of the United States. She is a member of <message redacted>.
Teres Draconis likes sandy loam, lapis lazuli, silver, the color green, elk leather, dogs for their loyalty and dragons for their terrible majesty. When possible, she prefers to consume cow's milk, cow cheese, wild strawberries and tuberbeer.
She is relaxed. She finds helping others rewarding. She is quick to anger. She is often nervous. She greatly apreciates art and natural beauty. She is willing to compromise with others. She often feels discouraged. She has a sense of duty. She tends to avoid crowds. She is bored by reality and has a wonderful imagination. She feels strong urges and seeks short-term rewards. She loves new and fresh ideas. She is disorganized. She is concerned about rejection and ridicule. She is occasionally given to procrastination. She is very friendly. She is slow to trust others. She does not feel effective in life. She often does the first thing that comes to mind.

== What DF stuff I've done lately ==

=== in game ===

Finding out that no, booze and blood don't flow like water. <explicative redacted>. Like I didn't find that out from many other sources /after/ failing my several boozerfall experiments. I have one last one to try... probably won't work, either, but I'm almost set up for it, so might as well continue.

=== Wiki ===

Check out the new [[chalk]] page and tell me what you think. Yes, honestly, because otherwise I'm going to keep doing it wrong. In the mean time, I'm going to a) sleep, and b) do the stones in the order they are found on [[Stones]].

On the other hand, just having done it taught me a lot about the language of behind-the-wiki. Still more to learn. Something new every day (I hope). Now to see if I am capible of putting it into practice. --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 07:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== Ever feel like a little fish in a really big pond? ==

And that maybe the pond is filled with something other than clear crystal water?

I am wading through some of the forums at www.bay12games.com, trying not to duplicate threads as I make suggestions (or, in at least one case, point out that there is a perfectly good way of dealing with the problem they want dealt with without them suggesting something that would mess up my problem even more, and better yet, their solution is already functional in the game). My word, there is a lot of ... stuff... to wade through. Even if I find a thread that talks about something similar to what I'm thinking, it may be a good ten pages long... and if I don't want to sound like a "me too!" who didn't even bother to read what they're "me too!"ing, then... argh... And when that's /already/ a duplicate thread. Headache. And then it turns out that none of them address the subtle vision I see... or insist on making it too complicated to actually impliment...

And I have to wonder, if it's this difficult for me, wading through it all, how badly fare the Great Toad and his tri-toed sibling? Because I'm sure I'm not looking at even a tenth of the ... stuff... that they are. (And no, I don't mean "<redacted>" because it's worthless, but rather because there's just so much of it that it intimidates me and I thus feel the need to call it dirty words. I accept my common ways.)

So, Yargh, I say. Yargh! I will take my ineffective self to dinner, and maybe tomorrow will wade through more "suggestions" in the hopes of finding a gem, a clever mind who's desires match my own (and who was smart enough to phrase it in a way that other people actually understand).

--[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 00:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

P.S. If someone would like to use the comments page to point me to a dwarf wiki task that doesn't require sublime wit (which I often recognise in others but cannot seem to duplicate myself), nor experiance with modding, nor... let's just say if it's mindlessly boring "take this info from these three tables and use this format to put it there"... I'll do at least four hours worth as penance for my recent sins. If you're lucky, you'll get a good 8 hour stretch out of me. Depending on how long I put off starting, and what I'm using this task as an excuse for avoiding. ... See, my tendancy towards procrastination can be used to your advantage. I think I'll start with stones. I'm told Olivine wants to be updated. *sigh*

40d Talk:Chalk

2009-05-21T07:38:21Z

Teres Draconis: approval seeking, 'cause I'm pathetic

Am I the only one who finds it weird to make things out of chalk? --[[User:Blakyoshi7|Blakyoshi7]] 00:42, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

:Aye. Ye are, lad. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:09, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

::It would be funny if they could make chalk engravings on a blackboard. Then they could use it to teach dwarves! --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:11, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Until the engravers decide to start engraving melting dwarves. On second thought, maybe the kids should learn some history. Of the [[Boatmurdered]] variety. Those kids won't sleep for weeks. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 16:27, 13 January 2009 (EST)

== Page 1 of my penance ==

I know there's a lot of data on the new Chalk page that can be found other places. I mostly just cut and pasted from the full listings, deleting what wasn't relavent. I am happy to use this format and level of detail for all of the other stones, (one or two a day) if someone will simply say "Good job, Jaz. Do it again." ... On the other hand, if you think it's too cluttered, or whatever, then... It's easy enough to put it back the way it was. Even if you don't say "Do it again, Jaz." I am likely to do another few stones tomorrow... uh, later today. After I sleep. Sleep first, other stone pages after...

I do find one thing lacking in the new page. There is no humor. That is because I, sadly, am humor impared.

If there is something I did wrong, (like missing an entry or putting one in that doesn't belong) let me know, I will do my best to fix it. Assuming you didn't do it already, in which case, let me know anyways. I like to know what I need to keep an eye out for in the future. If the wrong thing was doing this page at all in the first place, a simple "Stop, Jaz, we don't like it" will suffice.

And yes, I know, I talk too much. --[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 07:38, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

40d:Chalk

2009-05-21T07:25:56Z

Teres Draconis: details details details...

== Minor relavant data bits ==
(yes, it can be found in the raws)

Color = White

Value mod = 2

Flux stone = Yes

Coal stone = no

== Where chalk is found ==
Chalk is a sedementary layer stone. It can be found covering large swaths of individual layers, and often covers several layers in a given

48x48 area. Chalk will show up in the list of layer stones for a region, in the embark screen.

== Stones found in Chalk ==

=== '''Stones found directly in chalk''' ===

{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"
|-
! Icons
! Name
! Found in
! Found how
|-
|{{Raw Tile|+|#800|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#800|#000}}||[[Bauxite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|☼|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|☼|#888|#000}}||[[Bituminous coal]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Veins
|-
|{{Raw Tile|"|#FFF|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[[Calcite]]||Limestone, Marble||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|#|#ff0|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FF0|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsum Gypsum]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]

||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|░|#888|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#888|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_(lignite) Jet]||All [[Sedimentary

layer|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|=|#800|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#800|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaolinite Kaolinite]||All [[:Category:Sedimentary

Stone Layers|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|*|#888|#CCC}} {{Raw Tile|●|#888|#000}}||[[Lignite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Veins
|-
|{{Raw Tile|%|#0ff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#0FF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcline Microcline]||All Stone||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|%|#f00|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#F00|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrified_wood Petrified wood]||All [[Sedimentary

layer|Sedimentary]]||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|x|#ff0|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FF0|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltpeter Saltpeter]||All [[Sedimentary

layer|Sedimentary]]||Small clusters
|}

=== '''Stones found in other stones that are found in chalk''' ===

{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" border="1" cellpadding="5"
|-
! Icons
! Name
! Found in
! Found how
|-
|{{Raw Tile|^|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alabaster Alabaster]||Gypsum||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|`|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alunite Alunite]||All [[Igneous extrusive layer|Igneous

extrusive]], Kaolinite||Large clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|v|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#ccc|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhydrite Anhydrite]||Gypsum, Satinspar, Alabaster,

Selenite||Single
|-
|{{Raw Tile|`|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax Borax]||Gypsum, Rock salt||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|%|#ff0|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FF0|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brimstone Brimstone]||All [[Igneous extrusive

layer|Igneous extrusive]], Gypsum||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|%|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcasite Marcasite]||Kaolinite||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|-|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satinspar Satinspar]||Gypsum||Small clusters
|-
|{{Raw Tile|;|#fff|#ccc}} {{Raw Tile|●|#FFF|#000}}||[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selenite Selenite]||Gypsum||Small clusters
|}

== Ores found in Chalk ==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Ore
! Found in
! Found how
! Metal created
! Value
! Metal value
|-
|[[Hematite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]], All [[:Igneous extrusive layer|Igneous extrusive]]||Veins||[[Iron]]||8||10
|-
|[[Limonite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Veins||[[Iron]]||8||10
|-
|[[Magnetite]]||All [[Sedimentary layer|Sedimentary]]||Large clusters||[[Iron]]||8||10
|-
|[[Platinum nuggets]]||All [[soil|Alluvial]], [[Olivine]], [[Magnetite]], [[Chromite]]||Small clusters||[[Platinum]]||40||40
|-
|[[Tetrahedrite]]||All [[Stone]]||Veins||[[Copper]], [[Silver|Silver (20%)]]||3||2 (10)
|}

== Gems found in Chalk ==

=== '''Gems found directly in chalk''' ===

==== ''Ornamental'' ====
{{Gem table head}}
{{Gem table row|name=amber opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=aventurine|value=3×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=banded agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=bloodstone|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=bone opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=brown jasper|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=carnelian|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=cherry opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=chrysoprase|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|H|#0f0|#0f0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=citrine|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=dendritic agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=fire agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=fortification agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=gold opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=gray chalcedony|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=jasper opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=lace agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|D|#00f|#00f}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=milk opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=milk quartz|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=morion|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|K|#888|#888}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=moss agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=moss opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=onyx opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=onyx|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|K|#888|#888}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=picture jasper|value=3×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pineapple opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pipe opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=plume agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=prase opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=prase|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pyrite|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=resin opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=rock crystal|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=rose quartz|value=3×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=sardonyx|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=sard|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=schorl|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|K|#888|#888}}|fwhere=Metamorphic, Sedimentary, Granite|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=shell opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=smoky quartz|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=tiger iron|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=tigereye|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=tube agate|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=wax opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=white chalcedony|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=wood opal|value=10×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=yellow jasper|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=Sedimentary|fhow= Small clusters}}
|}

==== ''Semi-Precious'' ====
{{Gem table head}}
{{Gem table row|name=amethyst|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|L|#f0f|#f0f}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=bandfire opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=black opal|value=30×|color={{Raw Tile|K|#888|#888}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=claro opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|D|#00f|#00f}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=crystal opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=fire opal|value=15×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=green tourmaline|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=Metamorphic, Sedimentary, Granite|fhow= Small

clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=harlequin opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=jelly opal|value=15×|color={{Raw Tile|A|#aa0|#aa0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=levin opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|I|#ff0|#ff0}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pinfire opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=pink tourmaline|value=15×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=Metamorphic, Sedimentary, Granite|fhow= Small

clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=precious fire opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=red flash opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=red tourmaline|value=15×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Metamorphic, Sedimentary, Granite|fhow= Small

clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=white opal|value=20×|color={{Raw Tile|E|#fff|#fff}}|fwhere=All stone|fhow= Small clusters}}
|}

=== '''Gems found in other stones that are found in chalk''' ===

==== ''Ornamental'' ====
{{Gem table head}}
{{Gem table row|name=turquoise|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|D|#00f|#00f}}|fwhere=Igneous extrusive, Kaolinite, Granite|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=variscite|value=2×|color={{Raw Tile|B|#0a0|#0a0}}|fwhere=Bauxite|fhow= Small clusters}}
|}

==== ''Precious and Rare'' ====
{{Gem table head}}
{{Gem table row|name=ruby|value=40×|color={{Raw Tile|C|#a00|#a00}}|fwhere=Bauxite|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=sapphire|value=40×|color={{Raw Tile|N|#00a|#00a}}|fwhere=Bauxite|fhow= Small clusters}}
{{Gem table row|name=star ruby|value=60×|color={{Raw Tile|F|#f00|#f00}}|fwhere=Ruby|fhow= Single gem}}
{{Gem table row|name=star sapphire|value=60×|color={{Raw Tile|D|#00f|#00f}}|fwhere=Sapphire|fhow= Single gem}}
|}

== The Raws ==

{{Game_Data|[MATGLOSS_STONE:CHALK]
[NAME:chalk][COLOR:7:7:1][TILE:176][REACTION_CLASS:FLUX]
[SEDIMENTARY]
[VALUE:2]
}}

40d Talk:Olivine

2009-05-21T05:33:29Z

Teres Draconis: I whined. Poor me. Now get to work, self!

User:Teres Draconis

2009-05-21T00:52:49Z

Teres Draconis: I think I'll write a note a day, to be replaced and not added to. Then again, no. I have a blog, and I never use it.

Teres Draconis has been quite content lately. She has slept in a fine bedroom lately. She ate a wonderful meal lately. She has admired own fine table lately. She has complained of the lack of chairs lately. She has complained of thirst lately. She was comforted by a wonderful creature in a cage lately. She was annoyed by flies lately.
She is romanticly involved with <message redacted>. She is a casual worshiper of Mari the Chalice of Life.
She is a citizen of the United States. She is a member of <message redacted>.
Teres Draconis likes sandy loam, lapis lazuli, silver, the color green, elk leather, dogs for their loyalty and dragons for their terrible majesty. When possible, she prefers to consume cow's milk, cow cheese, wild strawberries and tuberbeer.
She is relaxed. She finds helping others rewarding. She is quick to anger. She is often nervous. She greatly apreciates art and natural beauty. She is willing to compromise with others. She often feels discouraged. She has a sense of duty. She tends to avoid crowds. She is bored by reality and has a wonderful imagination. She feels strong urges and seeks short-term rewards. She loves new and fresh ideas. She is disorganized. She is concerned about rejection and ridicule. She is occasionally given to procrastination. She is very friendly. She is slow to trust others. She does not feel effective in life. She often does the first thing that comes to mind.

== Ever feel like a little fish in a really big pond? ==

And that maybe the pond is filled with something other than clear crystal water?

I am wading through some of the forums at www.bay12games.com, trying not to duplicate threads as I make suggestions (or, in at least one case, point out that there is a perfectly good way of dealing with the problem they want dealt with without them suggesting something that would mess up my problem even more, and better yet, their solution is already functional in the game). My word, there is a lot of ... stuff... to wade through. Even if I find a thread that talks about something similar to what I'm thinking, it may be a good ten pages long... and if I don't want to sound like a "me too!" who didn't even bother to read what they're "me too!"ing, then... argh... And when that's /already/ a duplicate thread. Headache. And then it turns out that none of them address the subtle vision I see... or insist on making it too complicated to actually impliment...

And I have to wonder, if it's this difficult for me, wading through it all, how badly fare the Great Toad and his tri-toed sibling? Because I'm sure I'm not looking at even a tenth of the ... stuff... that they are. (And no, I don't mean "<redacted>" because it's worthless, but rather because there's just so much of it that it intimidates me and I thus feel the need to call it dirty words. I accept my common ways.)

So, Yargh, I say. Yargh! I will take my ineffective self to dinner, and maybe tomorrow will wade through more "suggestions" in the hopes of finding a gem, a clever mind who's desires match my own (and who was smart enough to phrase it in a way that other people actually understand).

--[[User:Teres Draconis|jaz]] 00:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

P.S. If someone would like to use the comments page to point me to a dwarf wiki task that doesn't require sublime wit (which I often recognise in others but cannot seem to duplicate myself), nor experiance with modding, nor... let's just say if it's mindlessly boring "take this info from these three tables and use this format to put it there"... I'll do at least four hours worth as penace for my recent sins. If you're lucky, you'll get a good 8 hour stretch out of me. Depending on how long I put off starting, and what I'm using this task as an excuse for avoiding. ... See, my tendancy towards procrastination can be used to your advantage. I think I'll start with stones. I'm told Olivine wants to be updated. *sigh*

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-05-21T00:26:00Z

Teres Draconis: noise reduction

== the sig ==
(pulled from below to form it's own section)

::It's <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>. Comes with built in timestamp.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok, several people have commented in several places (including in that horrible meatspace place... no, not the b(u)tcher shop, the other one) about my, uh, "unusual timestamp". Part of it is that yes, there is a sig button(which I didn't see the first time because there are more than three buttons and I was more concerned with content than italics and such). Yes, there is a nifty tildy thing (which I would, no doubt, forget how many to put in anyways)... but I've gotten used to typing it out by hand, and really. Who cares /when/ it was written? It was written before you read it this time, and after last time (if there was one)... or possibly, if you've read the comment in question a few times, the time three before that. It should be clear in context of who it's responding to (of?) what it was written after, and who commented on it and therefore wrote after it, ...and, really, does it truly change the nature of the universe ''if it was always there and you just didn't notice''??? So, thank you all for your helpful pointing out of things that at one point or other I didn't know. I do really apreciate it because yes, I am new, and no, I don't know everything. And yes, there are still many things I seek to learn. I think, though, I will continue on my merry way, typing it out by hand, with my own unusual timestamp. -- jaz (you're on my page, you don't get a link) ... on this day, sometime after the post being commented on.

:The timestamp is for other people's convenience. Although it seems you think others shouldn't care when something was written, that will not stop them (or me) from wanting to know. Considering it is actually less work for you to let people know than to deprive them of that knowledge, perhaps you should include the timestamp. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:36, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: You are right, of course, in that it is rude of me to go out of my way to annoy people. It's not that, its just. It takes exactly... darnit, uh... Four... four tildies to do the sig with timestamp. Half the time I will do three, and another third of the time I may do five, which leaves a poor sixth of the time I'll actually get four. Part of that is I may not remember (though having counted and "said" it I will remember longer). Part of that is that I typo rather a lot. On the other hand <nowiki>-- [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]</nowiki> is not only in my muscle memory, but it's something I can look up at the sigs of everyone above me and either cut, paste and edit or just type out by looking. The date and time? Much more difficult. I have to remember how far off I am from dwarfwiki standard, remember how far off my computer gets (my computer, strangely, seems to lose a minute and a half every week or so), yada yada blah. I'm lazy. Will people in general be more satisfied if I just leave the date and time blank? ... or maybe I can start remembering to use the blasted button. -- [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] 00:08, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::Button it is. --[[User:Teres Draconis|-- jaz]] 00:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== My personal note taking place ==

A lot of the following is just for my own personal note taking stuff. Feel free to add or comment or whatever. I don't mind.
Some of these questions (are) answered in the forums. I'll go check at some point, until then, this is where I'm storing my questions so I don't forget what it was I wanted to ask. ... the personality tags aught to have one for forgetfulness... which would related directly to how long they continue to think about things that have happened. One who was extremely forgetful might not list "slept in the rain" for as long as someone who had a clear recollection of things long past.

I play three versions of the game, randomly... one, the pure, out of the box, only thing messed with are the init files. Another with minor modifications to things like, oh... domestic cats are spayed when captured (affected by the child tags being replaced with [NO_GENDER])... we'll just pretend that they continue to breed like crazy out in the wilds.

---
For my modding purposes (uh, I've turned the smelter into a store to "buy" stuff from) , if anyone knows the TYPE:SUBTYPE:MATERIAL:MATGLOSS tags for any of the following, please please pretty please share them.

ivory, pearl, coral (I don't care if the creatures still don't drop them. I can "buy" it from my smelter, once I figure out the values for them)

containers with stuff in them. (for example, the cage the cow is in, the bag the sand is in, etc.) I figure the contents have to be listed seperately, but how do you get a barrel full of booze, and not booze in one hand and barrel in the other?... though, hey, now I have the idea for a booze-rfall. Must go attempt.

:Sadly, the boozerfall did not work. Nor the blooderfall that I had going in the smelter next to it (I figured, two trials for the price of one)... Even using a smelter to make a waterfall doesn't work. Apparently, any liquid product from the smelter, even if it is not stackable, does not flow out of the smelter, no matter how many you have... and if you unmake the smelter in the attempt to let it flow, it does not, but rather mysteriously vanishes into the unseen ether.... for my trial I used the (seemingly absurd) number 13,263. Strangely, 13263 waters will not overflow the smelter, nor run down the channels next to it, nor anything. They just sit in the smelter, making it nie impossible to use due to the liquid clutter.

:It would have been glorious, though. The plains flooded with Dwarven Ale. The gentle nurse lowering her bucket into the giant lake of booze to tote back to the wounded soldiers. The Generator [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1292-ubermistgenerator] making sweet smelling (and potentially intoxicating) mists... Sadly, this method does not work. I'll see if I can find another...

::Perhaps if I fill a room with 10000 barrels of booze, and then go mod the melting tempurature of the barrels to really low? Or, hmmm... wonder if you can make barrels out of ice? No, it acts like rock, and there are no rock barrels... except for... so maybe, hmmmm... ok! Gonna go try that next!

"plant cheeses"... like, say, tofu. ... how do I get the plants to let me make cheese from the extract? Twice I've tried, twice I've failed. I can keep experimenting, but... eh.

-
For the game designers and those who speak to them (go ahead, claim credit, I'm ok with that)... things I'd like to see in future versions...

a way to mod the workshops themselves. For instance, when I tell the manager I want to make 300 cheeses, I don't want the "make cheese" task to fill up the farmer's workshop I've dedicated to my spinner (making plant thread). I can dedicate /who/ works there. I'd like to dedicate the kinds of tasks that can be performed there, too.

:I know I can make a task repeatable... but if I want to save out 100 of my 400 barrels of milk for direct cooking, and don't want to have to forbid them, unforbid them, etc... besides, this was an example... could just as easily be "make stone toys" at the bone carver's shop.

I'd like to see a tag to put on things like sheep that allows for sheering. I want to make wool cloth without having to slaughter my sheep for them. ... and angoras, too. Poor bunnies. Not that I get cloth now... I get leather still, but...

:Probably would have the same problem as milking currently does. Perhaps when they get around to fixing that, they may put this one in as well... if someone makes them think of it.

I'd like to be able to make dyes from animal products. For instance, there are snails that produce a lovely purple color when crushed. No, I'm not with PETA, how did you guess?

I'd like to be able to dye worked cloth. The dress was made with undyed cloth? Should be easy to fix. I'd also like to be able to redye dyed cloth. In real life it would simply add color but I'd be ok with a "paint over" kind of effect.

Maybe mix dyes to make new colors? ... The only way I can think of right now to mod that in is to have a plant for each of them and then smelt two dyes into something else, red and blue make purple like iron and pig iron make steel.

I think bones (raw hides, skulls, shells) should be binable. I mean, really. I have 10 fishbones a cat's skull and a turtle shell that take up the same floorspace as 12 beds?!? Put them in a bin. On raw hides: it rots. Ok, two choices. One: don't let me bin this. I'll still be happy if I can bin the friggin' bones, shells, skulls. Or, two: The rot spreads to everything it touches, and, since it's "in" something, it produces miasma. Even if the bin is outside. I don't think that "rat remains" and "dog chunks" and such should be binable. I mean, ew. Also, those don't go into the workshop stockpiles for processing. At least, not in /my/ fortresses. ... again, ew.

... One or two last thoughts before I actually post this...

Is there a way to make a mixed group of creatures that spawn together? I mean, take your average herd in Africa. You're going to have zebras and elephants and girraffs and several other things besides, often all walking together. Sure, often you find a herd of just elephants, but often you'll find one or two in a mix of other things as well. And flocks of birds who travel with them, too.

I'm considering adding a new medium-heavy mod that accounts for things like mixed herds, beehives (worker bees, queen bee, guard bees), maybe beemen... though antmen could use this, too. Antmen could maybe have pet Giant Aphids (who, storywise they milk but who aren't tamable to humanoids)...

And, thirdly (I know I said one or two)... feralization. I can keep my tame but unclaimed pets mostly in one area by defining it as a meeting zone... but if I don't... and if they wander off (even if they don't)... I think that if they don't see one of their caretakers for, oh, two seasons (maybe less... maybe a tag that says how quickly?)... they should feralize. Easy way is just to make them go back to being the wild version of that creature. If it's in the wrong biome... uh, oops? Might die sooner? Might get eaten by a grue, I mean, uh... Another way is to make a whole other classification (wild, tame, feral)... maybe it adjusts how aggressive it is. Maybe not. Maybe it adjusts how easily it goes back to being tame. Would this tag be passed on to it's young? Or would the young just be "wild" to start with? If you were near another outpost, city or whatever, would you have their feral creatures start wandering into your area on occasion? Just what you need, the neighbor's feral dragon has decided your keep is it's new home!

Ok, Done. I'll edit and such later, and reduce the noise as I get answers. Or, you know, you can if you like. Whatever.

-jaz

: I would really really like to see a little option pop up. When everything pauses and recenters because the miners struck something new on a level, and it says ... whatever it says... I'd like there to be a (d)ig, (s)trip, (f)orbid option.
::(d)ig would just dig the squares you've already designated.
::(s)trip would designate for mining squares of that type, on that level, /as they are discovered/, even if they aren't currently designated. If it's done "as discovered", you won't neccissarily know how much you're getting until it's done, thus maintaining the mystery. You should still be able to undesignate squares that have been designated automatically.
::(f)orbid would un-designate squares of that type, on that level, as they are discovered.
:That way I don't have my newbie miner failing the attempt to mine out the diamonds. I can just leave them there for later. And if I have 4 levels of mining going on, I can't watch every level all the time to see if a new deposite of something already mentioned shows up, or whatever... I can just say "no, not that" as it's discovered, and all the miners know to leave it, and all other instances of it, alone.

== Noise Reduction ==
Things that got answered... They will get deleted out all together at some point as I don't want this talks page to be 40 bajillion pages long.

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] distroyed my dreams of milkable cows via the [milkable:33333] tag on 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I cried. Bad you, making (potentially pretty, but who can tell through the computer screen) girls cry. No, really. Ok, I admit maybe it's not your fault, but... can you explain why the tag seems to work for the purring maggots? I don't speak geek, so go slowly. The words "hard coded" do not help, btw. I've heard that before.

-

Which brings me to paints. I think there should be a way to make paints. So-and-so likes the color lavender? Paint his room that color. I think that painting things should remove the preference bonuses for things that are made with a prefered material (if she likes oak and green, and all of her oak furnature is painted green, it gets the personal value bonus for green, but not oak.) I'm not sure I stated that clearly, but hey, whatever.

:You do realize that the Great and Mighty Toady One doesn't frequent the wiki, and isn't going to check your wiki talk page anywho. Put it on the forum. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:: I know the other Toady (my sister has been Toady longer than he has, so he's stuck with "the other one" in my mind, even if he is also the /better/ one in my mind) doesn't read these things. That's why I also said that anyone else could bring it to their attention. I'm ok with that.... (I'm not so foolish as to think Giant Toads would even notice a little olm like me.)

::(I whine now, feel free to skip)I have problems with the forum. There's too much stuff there. I can somewhat manage with the wiki because there's less to wade through since I've been wading through it since it was a wee little wiki. I have poor google-fu and don't like repeating a question that's already been answered. Makes me feel foolish and like I didn't bother to research when I just spent an hour looking for it because I worded it differently than they did. But I am happy to try twice more, because you asked.

:::Commented on someone else's string. Added my two bits. Going to go see what other of my noises can be reduced by such activity. - jaz

-

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] tells me there will be a way of saying "creature A and creature B can breed together to make creature C" in the next release. I mean, where do you think mules come from? I have several donkies of both genders, I have several horses of both genders... every once in a while, instead of getting a donkey foal or a horse foal, I (will, next release) be getting a mule foal... and no, mules still can't breed (IRL, anyways. We'll see about IG).

::Will there also be a way of preventing such things? I mean, if I keep my horses in one vault and my donkies in another, am I going to get a whole seasons worth of foaling turned into mules? -- the ever curious [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]

-

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] suggested I look on/post to the forums for my ideas and wants, game wise... apparently quite a few of them were already mentioned. I've removed some from my list. Not that I think they're neccsissarly upcoming, but well, noise reduction. I've posted some already, and some I don't even know how to search for the thread. Then again, worst is worst, someone calls me an idiot and points to the 47 other threads that I'm repeating. I'll only feel rejected and foolish. What's so wrong with that? ... "Teres Draconis ... is concerned about rejection and ridicule." ... Oh, right. Cry me a river. Do it anyways, Jaz.
... doing, doing, done. --[[User:Teres Draconis|-- jaz]] 00:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-05-21T00:10:50Z

Teres Draconis: /* the sig */ half hearted appology, honest change of behaviour

== the sig ==
(pulled from below to form it's own section)

again, for my benefit, because I never remember how to do this... --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.
:duh, me... there's a sig button. I've gotten used to typing it out by hand, though. No timestamp, but hey, time is relative.
::It's <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>. Comes with built in timestamp.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok, several people have commented in several places (including in that horrible meatspace place... no, not the b(u)tcher shop, the other one) about my, uh, "unusual timestamp". Part of it is that yes, there is a sig button(which I didn't see the first time because there are more than three buttons and I was more concerned with content than italics and such). Yes, there is a nifty tildy thing (which I would, no doubt, forget how many to put in anyways)... but I've gotten used to typing it out by hand, and really. Who cares /when/ it was written? It was written before you read it this time, and after last time (if there was one)... or possibly, if you've read the comment in question a few times, the time three before that. It should be clear in context of who it's responding to (of?) what it was written after, and who commented on it and therefore wrote after it, ...and, really, does it truly change the nature of the universe ''if it was always there and you just didn't notice''??? So, thank you all for your helpful pointing out of things that at one point or other I didn't know. I do really apreciate it because yes, I am new, and no, I don't know everything. And yes, there are still many things I seek to learn. I think, though, I will continue on my merry way, typing it out by hand, with my own unusual timestamp. -- jaz (you're on my page, you don't get a link) ... on this day, sometime after the post being commented on.

:The timestamp is for other people's convenience. Although it seems you think others shouldn't care when something was written, that will not stop them (or me) from wanting to know. Considering it is actually less work for you to let people know than to deprive them of that knowledge, perhaps you should include the timestamp. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 23:36, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: You are right, of course, in that it is rude of me to go out of my way to annoy people. It's not that, its just. It takes exactly... darnit, uh... Four... four tildies to do the sig with timestamp. Half the time I will do three, and another third of the time I may do five, which leaves a poor sixth of the time I'll actually get four. Part of that is I may not remember (though having counted and "said" it I will remember longer). Part of that is that I typo rather a lot. On the other hand <nowiki>-- [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]</nowiki> is not only in my muscle memory, but it's something I can look up at the sigs of everyone above me and either cut, paste and edit or just type out by looking. The date and time? Much more difficult. I have to remember how far off I am from dwarfwiki standard, remember how far off my computer gets (my computer, strangely, seems to lose a minute and a half every week or so), yada yada blah. I'm lazy. Will people in general be more satisfied if I just leave the date and time blank? ... or maybe I can start remembering to use the blasted button. -- [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] 00:08, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::Button it is. -- jaz

== Definately not FOUO ==
Hehe... FOUO huh? :p -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

:No. Definately not. For everyone's use... The page that is, not me. I'm definately FOUO and permissions are hard to come by. - jaz

== My personal note taking place ==

A lot of the following is just for my own personal note taking stuff. Feel free to add or comment or whatever. I don't mind.
Some of these questions may be answered in the forums. I'll go check at some point, until then, this is where I'm storing my questions so I don't forget what it was I wanted to ask. ... the personality tags aught to have one for forgetfulness... which would related directly to how long they continue to think about things that have happened. One who was extremely forgetful might not list "slept in the rain" for as long as someone who had a clear recollection of things long past.

I play three versions of the game, randomly... one, the pure, out of the box, only thing messed with are the init files. Another with minor modifications to things like, oh... domestic cats are spayed when captured (affected by the child tags being replaced with [NO_GENDER])... we'll just pretend that they continue to breed like crazy out in the wilds.

---
For my modding purposes (uh, I've turned the smelter into a store to "buy" stuff from) , if anyone knows the TYPE:SUBTYPE:MATERIAL:MATGLOSS tags for any of the following, please please pretty please share them.

ivory, pearl, coral (I don't care if the creatures still don't drop them. I can "buy" it from my smelter, once I figure out the values for them)

containers with stuff in them. (for example, the cage the cow is in, the bag the sand is in, etc.) I figure the contents have to be listed seperately, but how do you get a barrel full of booze, and not booze in one hand and barrel in the other?... though, hey, now I have the idea for a booze-rfall. Must go attempt.

:Sadly, the boozerfall did not work. Nor the blooderfall that I had going in the smelter next to it (I figured, two trials for the price of one)... Even using a smelter to make a waterfall doesn't work. Apparently, any liquid product from the smelter, even if it is not stackable, does not flow out of the smelter, no matter how many you have... and if you unmake the smelter in the attempt to let it flow, it does not, but rather mysteriously vanishes into the unseen ether.... for my trial I used the (seemingly absurd) number 13,263. Strangely, 13263 waters will not overflow the smelter, nor run down the channels next to it, nor anything. They just sit in the smelter, making it nie impossible to use due to the liquid clutter.

:It would have been glorious, though. The plains flooded with Dwarven Ale. The gentle nurse lowering her bucket into the giant lake of booze to tote back to the wounded soldiers. The Generator [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1292-ubermistgenerator] making sweet smelling (and potentially intoxicating) mists... Sadly, this method does not work. I'll see if I can find another...

::Perhaps if I fill a room with 10000 barrels of booze, and then go mod the melting tempurature of the barrels to really low? Or, hmmm... wonder if you can make barrels out of ice? No, it acts like rock, and there are no rock barrels... except for... so maybe, hmmmm... ok! Gonna go try that next!

"plant cheeses"... like, say, tofu. ... how do I get the plants to let me make cheese from the extract? Twice I've tried, twice I've failed. I can keep experimenting, but... eh.

-
For the game designers and those who speak to them (go ahead, claim credit, I'm ok with that)... things I'd like to see in future versions...

cobalt being used like crystal in glass making to make cobalt glass... you know, that pretty blue glass everyone loves?

a way to burn wooden items to get ash or charcoal the way you can melt a metal object to get the bars back.

a way to mod the workshops themselves. For instance, when I tell the manager I want to make 300 cheeses, I don't want the "make cheese" task to fill up the farmer's workshop I've dedicated to my spinner (making plant thread). I can dedicate /who/ works there. I'd like to dedicate the kinds of tasks that can be performed there, too.

:I know I can make a task repeatable... but if I want to save out 100 of my 400 barrels of milk for direct cooking, and don't want to have to forbid them, unforbid them, etc... besides, this was an example... could just as easily be "make stone toys" at the bone carver's shop.

I'd like to see a tag to put on things like sheep that allows for sheering. I want to make wool cloth without having to slaughter my sheep for them. ... and angoras, too. Poor bunnies. Not that I get cloth now... I get leather still, but...

:Probably would have the same problem as milking currently does. Perhaps when they get around to fixing that, they may put this one in as well... if someone makes them think of it.

I'd like to be able to make dyes from animal products. For instance, there are snails that produce a lovely purple color when crushed. No, I'm not with PETA, how did you guess?

I'd like to be able to dye worked cloth. The dress was made with undyed cloth? Should be easy to fix. I'd also like to be able to redye dyed cloth. In real life it would simply add color but I'd be ok with a "paint over" kind of effect.

Maybe mix dyes to make new colors? ... The only way I can think of right now to mod that in is to have a plant for each of them and then smelt two dyes into something else, red and blue make purple like iron and pig iron make steel.

And then there's... clay. You have a perfectly good kiln and I can't figure what it's good for except making clear glass at the glass workers furnace... I wouldn't mind so much except that its a whole "workshop" with only 1 (sub)task that I don't use very much. Usually only 3 times if I even have sand (vials for the soaper), and otherwise not at all. Go ahead and add another workshop if you like (the potter's wheel) and then put that kiln to use. Suddenly you've got clay crafts (mugs, etc), bricks, etc. But only if you have a source of clay.

I think bones (raw hides, skulls, shells) should be binable. I mean, really. I have 10 fishbones a cat's skull and a turtle shell that take up the same floorspace as 12 beds?!? Put them in a bin. On raw hides: it rots. Ok, two choices. One: don't let me bin this. I'll still be happy if I can bin the friggin' bones, shells, skulls. Or, two: The rot spreads to everything it touches, and, since it's "in" something, it produces miasma. Even if the bin is outside. I don't think that "rat remains" and "dog chunks" and such should be binable. I mean, ew. Also, those don't go into the workshop stockpiles for processing. At least, not in /my/ fortresses. ... again, ew.

... One or two last thoughts before I actually post this...

Is there a way to make a mixed group of creatures that spawn together? I mean, take your average herd in Africa. You're going to have zebras and elephants and girraffs and several other things besides, often all walking together. Sure, often you find a herd of just elephants, but often you'll find one or two in a mix of other things as well. And flocks of birds who travel with them, too.

I'm considering adding a new medium-heavy mod that accounts for things like mixed herds, beehives (worker bees, queen bee, guard bees), maybe beemen... though antmen could use this, too. Antmen could maybe have pet Giant Aphids (who, storywise they milk but who aren't tamable to humanoids)...

And, thirdly (I know I said one or two)... feralization. I can keep my tame but unclaimed pets mostly in one area by defining it as a meeting zone... but if I don't... and if they wander off (even if they don't)... I think that if they don't see one of their caretakers for, oh, two seasons (maybe less... maybe a tag that says how quickly?)... they should feralize. Easy way is just to make them go back to being the wild version of that creature. If it's in the wrong biome... uh, oops? Might die sooner? Might get eaten by a grue, I mean, uh... Another way is to make a whole other classification (wild, tame, feral)... maybe it adjusts how aggressive it is. Maybe not. Maybe it adjusts how easily it goes back to being tame. Would this tag be passed on to it's young? Or would the young just be "wild" to start with? If you were near another outpost, city or whatever, would you have their feral creatures start wandering into your area on occasion? Just what you need, the neighbor's feral dragon has decided your keep is it's new home!

Ok, Done. I'll edit and such later, and reduce the noise as I get answers. Or, you know, you can if you like. Whatever.

-jaz

: I would really really like to see a little option pop up. When everything pauses and recenters because the miners struck something new on a level, and it says ... whatever it says... I'd like there to be a (d)ig, (s)trip, (f)orbid option.
::(d)ig would just dig the squares you've already designated.
::(s)trip would designate for mining squares of that type, on that level, /as they are discovered/, even if they aren't currently designated. If it's done "as discovered", you won't neccissarily know how much you're getting until it's done, thus maintaining the mystery. You should still be able to undesignate squares that have been designated automatically.
::(f)orbid would un-designate squares of that type, on that level, as they are discovered.
:That way I don't have my newbie miner failing the attempt to mine out the diamonds. I can just leave them there for later. And if I have 4 levels of mining going on, I can't watch every level all the time to see if a new deposite of something already mentioned shows up, or whatever... I can just say "no, not that" as it's discovered, and all the miners know to leave it, and all other instances of it, alone.

== Umm... Yay for vodka ==

Yay?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 02:18, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:actually, I was thinking "rootbeer", but since there are no non-alcoholic drinks in DF (except milk, which no one, not even elves, actually drinks)... well ... vodka it is! Wheee! -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

== Noise Reduction ==
Things that got answered... They will get deleted out all together at some point as I don't want this talks page to be 40 bajillion pages long.

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] distroyed my dreams of milkable cows via the [milkable:33333] tag on 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I cried. Bad you, making (potentially pretty, but who can tell through the computer screen) girls cry. No, really. Ok, I admit maybe it's not your fault, but... can you explain why the tag seems to work for the purring maggots? I don't speak geek, so go slowly. The words "hard coded" do not help, btw. I've heard that before.

-

Which brings me to paints. I think there should be a way to make paints. So-and-so likes the color lavender? Paint his room that color. I think that painting things should remove the preference bonuses for things that are made with a prefered material (if she likes oak and green, and all of her oak furnature is painted green, it gets the personal value bonus for green, but not oak.) I'm not sure I stated that clearly, but hey, whatever.

:You do realize that the Great and Mighty Toady One doesn't frequent the wiki, and isn't going to check your wiki talk page anywho. Put it on the forum. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:: I know the other Toady (my sister has been Toady longer than he has, so he's stuck with "the other one" in my mind, even if he is also the /better/ one in my mind) doesn't read these things. That's why I also said that anyone else could bring it to their attention. I'm ok with that.... (I'm not so foolish as to think Giant Toads would even notice a little olm like me.)

::(I whine now, feel free to skip)I have problems with the forum. There's too much stuff there. I can somewhat manage with the wiki because there's less to wade through since I've been wading through it since it was a wee little wiki. I have poor google-fu and don't like repeating a question that's already been answered. Makes me feel foolish and like I didn't bother to research when I just spent an hour looking for it because I worded it differently than they did. But I am happy to try twice more, because you asked.

:::Commented on someone else's string. Added my two bits. Going to go see what other of my noises can be reduced by such activity. - jaz

-

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] tells me there will be a way of saying "creature A and creature B can breed together to make creature C" in the next release. I mean, where do you think mules come from? I have several donkies of both genders, I have several horses of both genders... every once in a while, instead of getting a donkey foal or a horse foal, I (will, next release) be getting a mule foal... and no, mules still can't breed (IRL, anyways. We'll see about IG).

::Will there also be a way of preventing such things? I mean, if I keep my horses in one vault and my donkies in another, am I going to get a whole seasons worth of foaling turned into mules? -- the ever curious [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]

40d Talk:Goblet

2009-05-20T23:58:18Z

Teres Draconis: you can examine containers to see their contents...

For some reason under v0.27.176.38c, mugs/goblets do not show up in the Trade Depot (g)oods screen under crafts. I have to go under All and scroll down to bring my mugs to the depot. - --[[User:Langdon|Langdon]] 09:37, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

: Yep. like toys and some other stuff they are not strictly crafts (but those have their own entries). The menu is a bit weird there, also with a few other items. But to find them just view all,press s and type 'mug' or 'gob' that will find them too. Soon you will be using bins for fin. goods anyway. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 20:47, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

On Bins. - Am I the only one who actually looks at the contents of bins and cages before buying or selling (or even moving) them? Yeesh. No wonder <name redacted> bought 27 cows when all he wanted was a bull. -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-05-20T22:32:18Z

Teres Draconis: /* Noise Reduction */

== the sig ==
(pulled from below to form it's own section)

again, for my benefit, because I never remember how to do this... --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.
:duh, me... there's a sig button. I've gotten used to typing it out by hand, though. No timestamp, but hey, time is relative.
::It's <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>. Comes with built in timestamp.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok, several people have commented in several places (including in that horrible meatspace place... no, not the b(u)tcher shop, the other one) about my, uh, "unusual timestamp". Part of it is that yes, there is a sig button(which I didn't see the first time because there are more than three buttons and I was more concerned with content than italics and such). Yes, there is a nifty tildy thing (which I would, no doubt, forget how many to put in anyways)... but I've gotten used to typing it out by hand, and really. Who cares /when/ it was written? It was written before you read it this time, and after last time (if there was one)... or possibly, if you've read the comment in question a few times, the time three before that. It should be clear in context of who it's responding to (of?) what it was written after, and who commented on it and therefore wrote after it, ...and, really, does it truly change the nature of the universe ''if it was always there and you just didn't notice''??? So, thank you all for your helpful pointing out of things that at one point or other I didn't know. I do really apreciate it because yes, I am new, and no, I don't know everything. And yes, there are still many things I seek to learn. I think, though, I will continue on my merry way, typing it out by hand, with my own unusual timestamp. -- jaz (you're on my page, you don't get a link) ... on this day, sometime after the post being commented on.

== Definately not FOUO ==
Hehe... FOUO huh? :p -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

:No. Definately not. For everyone's use... The page that is, not me. I'm definately FOUO and permissions are hard to come by. - jaz

== My personal note taking place ==

A lot of the following is just for my own personal note taking stuff. Feel free to add or comment or whatever. I don't mind.
Some of these questions may be answered in the forums. I'll go check at some point, until then, this is where I'm storing my questions so I don't forget what it was I wanted to ask. ... the personality tags aught to have one for forgetfulness... which would related directly to how long they continue to think about things that have happened. One who was extremely forgetful might not list "slept in the rain" for as long as someone who had a clear recollection of things long past.

I play three versions of the game, randomly... one, the pure, out of the box, only thing messed with are the init files. Another with minor modifications to things like, oh... domestic cats are spayed when captured (affected by the child tags being replaced with [NO_GENDER])... we'll just pretend that they continue to breed like crazy out in the wilds.

---
For my modding purposes (uh, I've turned the smelter into a store to "buy" stuff from) , if anyone knows the TYPE:SUBTYPE:MATERIAL:MATGLOSS tags for any of the following, please please pretty please share them.

ivory, pearl, coral (I don't care if the creatures still don't drop them. I can "buy" it from my smelter, once I figure out the values for them)

containers with stuff in them. (for example, the cage the cow is in, the bag the sand is in, etc.) I figure the contents have to be listed seperately, but how do you get a barrel full of booze, and not booze in one hand and barrel in the other?... though, hey, now I have the idea for a booze-rfall. Must go attempt.

:Sadly, the boozerfall did not work. Nor the blooderfall that I had going in the smelter next to it (I figured, two trials for the price of one)... Even using a smelter to make a waterfall doesn't work. Apparently, any liquid product from the smelter, even if it is not stackable, does not flow out of the smelter, no matter how many you have... and if you unmake the smelter in the attempt to let it flow, it does not, but rather mysteriously vanishes into the unseen ether.... for my trial I used the (seemingly absurd) number 13,263. Strangely, 13263 waters will not overflow the smelter, nor run down the channels next to it, nor anything. They just sit in the smelter, making it nie impossible to use due to the liquid clutter.

:It would have been glorious, though. The plains flooded with Dwarven Ale. The gentle nurse lowering her bucket into the giant lake of booze to tote back to the wounded soldiers. The Generator [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1292-ubermistgenerator] making sweet smelling (and potentially intoxicating) mists... Sadly, this method does not work. I'll see if I can find another...

::Perhaps if I fill a room with 10000 barrels of booze, and then go mod the melting tempurature of the barrels to really low? Or, hmmm... wonder if you can make barrels out of ice? No, it acts like rock, and there are no rock barrels... except for... so maybe, hmmmm... ok! Gonna go try that next!

"plant cheeses"... like, say, tofu. ... how do I get the plants to let me make cheese from the extract? Twice I've tried, twice I've failed. I can keep experimenting, but... eh.

-
For the game designers and those who speak to them (go ahead, claim credit, I'm ok with that)... things I'd like to see in future versions...

cobalt being used like crystal in glass making to make cobalt glass... you know, that pretty blue glass everyone loves?

a way to burn wooden items to get ash or charcoal the way you can melt a metal object to get the bars back.

a way to mod the workshops themselves. For instance, when I tell the manager I want to make 300 cheeses, I don't want the "make cheese" task to fill up the farmer's workshop I've dedicated to my spinner (making plant thread). I can dedicate /who/ works there. I'd like to dedicate the kinds of tasks that can be performed there, too.

:I know I can make a task repeatable... but if I want to save out 100 of my 400 barrels of milk for direct cooking, and don't want to have to forbid them, unforbid them, etc... besides, this was an example... could just as easily be "make stone toys" at the bone carver's shop.

I'd like to see a tag to put on things like sheep that allows for sheering. I want to make wool cloth without having to slaughter my sheep for them. ... and angoras, too. Poor bunnies. Not that I get cloth now... I get leather still, but...

:Probably would have the same problem as milking currently does. Perhaps when they get around to fixing that, they may put this one in as well... if someone makes them think of it.

I'd like to be able to make dyes from animal products. For instance, there are snails that produce a lovely purple color when crushed. No, I'm not with PETA, how did you guess?

I'd like to be able to dye worked cloth. The dress was made with undyed cloth? Should be easy to fix. I'd also like to be able to redye dyed cloth. In real life it would simply add color but I'd be ok with a "paint over" kind of effect.

Maybe mix dyes to make new colors? ... The only way I can think of right now to mod that in is to have a plant for each of them and then smelt two dyes into something else, red and blue make purple like iron and pig iron make steel.

And then there's... clay. You have a perfectly good kiln and I can't figure what it's good for except making clear glass at the glass workers furnace... I wouldn't mind so much except that its a whole "workshop" with only 1 (sub)task that I don't use very much. Usually only 3 times if I even have sand (vials for the soaper), and otherwise not at all. Go ahead and add another workshop if you like (the potter's wheel) and then put that kiln to use. Suddenly you've got clay crafts (mugs, etc), bricks, etc. But only if you have a source of clay.

I think bones (raw hides, skulls, shells) should be binable. I mean, really. I have 10 fishbones a cat's skull and a turtle shell that take up the same floorspace as 12 beds?!? Put them in a bin. On raw hides: it rots. Ok, two choices. One: don't let me bin this. I'll still be happy if I can bin the friggin' bones, shells, skulls. Or, two: The rot spreads to everything it touches, and, since it's "in" something, it produces miasma. Even if the bin is outside. I don't think that "rat remains" and "dog chunks" and such should be binable. I mean, ew. Also, those don't go into the workshop stockpiles for processing. At least, not in /my/ fortresses. ... again, ew.

... One or two last thoughts before I actually post this...

Is there a way to make a mixed group of creatures that spawn together? I mean, take your average herd in Africa. You're going to have zebras and elephants and girraffs and several other things besides, often all walking together. Sure, often you find a herd of just elephants, but often you'll find one or two in a mix of other things as well. And flocks of birds who travel with them, too.

I'm considering adding a new medium-heavy mod that accounts for things like mixed herds, beehives (worker bees, queen bee, guard bees), maybe beemen... though antmen could use this, too. Antmen could maybe have pet Giant Aphids (who, storywise they milk but who aren't tamable to humanoids)...

And, thirdly (I know I said one or two)... feralization. I can keep my tame but unclaimed pets mostly in one area by defining it as a meeting zone... but if I don't... and if they wander off (even if they don't)... I think that if they don't see one of their caretakers for, oh, two seasons (maybe less... maybe a tag that says how quickly?)... they should feralize. Easy way is just to make them go back to being the wild version of that creature. If it's in the wrong biome... uh, oops? Might die sooner? Might get eaten by a grue, I mean, uh... Another way is to make a whole other classification (wild, tame, feral)... maybe it adjusts how aggressive it is. Maybe not. Maybe it adjusts how easily it goes back to being tame. Would this tag be passed on to it's young? Or would the young just be "wild" to start with? If you were near another outpost, city or whatever, would you have their feral creatures start wandering into your area on occasion? Just what you need, the neighbor's feral dragon has decided your keep is it's new home!

Ok, Done. I'll edit and such later, and reduce the noise as I get answers. Or, you know, you can if you like. Whatever.

-jaz

: I would really really like to see a little option pop up. When everything pauses and recenters because the miners struck something new on a level, and it says ... whatever it says... I'd like there to be a (d)ig, (s)trip, (f)orbid option.
::(d)ig would just dig the squares you've already designated.
::(s)trip would designate for mining squares of that type, on that level, /as they are discovered/, even if they aren't currently designated. If it's done "as discovered", you won't neccissarily know how much you're getting until it's done, thus maintaining the mystery. You should still be able to undesignate squares that have been designated automatically.
::(f)orbid would un-designate squares of that type, on that level, as they are discovered.
:That way I don't have my newbie miner failing the attempt to mine out the diamonds. I can just leave them there for later. And if I have 4 levels of mining going on, I can't watch every level all the time to see if a new deposite of something already mentioned shows up, or whatever... I can just say "no, not that" as it's discovered, and all the miners know to leave it, and all other instances of it, alone.

== Umm... Yay for vodka ==

Yay?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 02:18, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:actually, I was thinking "rootbeer", but since there are no non-alcoholic drinks in DF (except milk, which no one, not even elves, actually drinks)... well ... vodka it is! Wheee! -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

== Noise Reduction ==
Things that got answered... They will get deleted out all together at some point as I don't want this talks page to be 40 bajillion pages long.

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] distroyed my dreams of milkable cows via the [milkable:33333] tag on 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I cried. Bad you, making (potentially pretty, but who can tell through the computer screen) girls cry. No, really. Ok, I admit maybe it's not your fault, but... can you explain why the tag seems to work for the purring maggots? I don't speak geek, so go slowly. The words "hard coded" do not help, btw. I've heard that before.

-

Which brings me to paints. I think there should be a way to make paints. So-and-so likes the color lavender? Paint his room that color. I think that painting things should remove the preference bonuses for things that are made with a prefered material (if she likes oak and green, and all of her oak furnature is painted green, it gets the personal value bonus for green, but not oak.) I'm not sure I stated that clearly, but hey, whatever.

:You do realize that the Great and Mighty Toady One doesn't frequent the wiki, and isn't going to check your wiki talk page anywho. Put it on the forum. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:: I know the other Toady (my sister has been Toady longer than he has, so he's stuck with "the other one" in my mind, even if he is also the /better/ one in my mind) doesn't read these things. That's why I also said that anyone else could bring it to their attention. I'm ok with that.... (I'm not so foolish as to think Giant Toads would even notice a little olm like me.)

::(I whine now, feel free to skip)I have problems with the forum. There's too much stuff there. I can somewhat manage with the wiki because there's less to wade through since I've been wading through it since it was a wee little wiki. I have poor google-fu and don't like repeating a question that's already been answered. Makes me feel foolish and like I didn't bother to research when I just spent an hour looking for it because I worded it differently than they did. But I am happy to try twice more, because you asked.

:::Commented on someone else's string. Added my two bits. Going to go see what other of my noises can be reduced by such activity. - jaz

-

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] tells me there will be a way of saying "creature A and creature B can breed together to make creature C" in the next release. I mean, where do you think mules come from? I have several donkies of both genders, I have several horses of both genders... every once in a while, instead of getting a donkey foal or a horse foal, I (will, next release) be getting a mule foal... and no, mules still can't breed (IRL, anyways. We'll see about IG).

::Will there also be a way of preventing such things? I mean, if I keep my horses in one vault and my donkies in another, am I going to get a whole seasons worth of foaling turned into mules? -- the ever curious [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-05-20T21:58:34Z

Teres Draconis: /* Noise Reduction */ 1 typo correction... there may be more.

== the sig ==
(pulled from below to form it's own section)

again, for my benefit, because I never remember how to do this... --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.
:duh, me... there's a sig button. I've gotten used to typing it out by hand, though. No timestamp, but hey, time is relative.
::It's <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>. Comes with built in timestamp.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok, several people have commented in several places (including in that horrible meatspace place... no, not the b(u)tcher shop, the other one) about my, uh, "unusual timestamp". Part of it is that yes, there is a sig button(which I didn't see the first time because there are more than three buttons and I was more concerned with content than italics and such). Yes, there is a nifty tildy thing (which I would, no doubt, forget how many to put in anyways)... but I've gotten used to typing it out by hand, and really. Who cares /when/ it was written? It was written before you read it this time, and after last time (if there was one)... or possibly, if you've read the comment in question a few times, the time three before that. It should be clear in context of who it's responding to (of?) what it was written after, and who commented on it and therefore wrote after it, ...and, really, does it truly change the nature of the universe ''if it was always there and you just didn't notice''??? So, thank you all for your helpful pointing out of things that at one point or other I didn't know. I do really apreciate it because yes, I am new, and no, I don't know everything. And yes, there are still many things I seek to learn. I think, though, I will continue on my merry way, typing it out by hand, with my own unusual timestamp. -- jaz (you're on my page, you don't get a link) ... on this day, sometime after the post being commented on.

== Definately not FOUO ==
Hehe... FOUO huh? :p -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

:No. Definately not. For everyone's use... The page that is, not me. I'm definately FOUO and permissions are hard to come by. - jaz

== My personal note taking place ==

A lot of the following is just for my own personal note taking stuff. Feel free to add or comment or whatever. I don't mind.
Some of these questions may be answered in the forums. I'll go check at some point, until then, this is where I'm storing my questions so I don't forget what it was I wanted to ask. ... the personality tags aught to have one for forgetfulness... which would related directly to how long they continue to think about things that have happened. One who was extremely forgetful might not list "slept in the rain" for as long as someone who had a clear recollection of things long past.

I play three versions of the game, randomly... one, the pure, out of the box, only thing messed with are the init files. Another with minor modifications to things like, oh... domestic cats are spayed when captured (affected by the child tags being replaced with [NO_GENDER])... we'll just pretend that they continue to breed like crazy out in the wilds.

---
For my modding purposes (uh, I've turned the smelter into a store to "buy" stuff from) , if anyone knows the TYPE:SUBTYPE:MATERIAL:MATGLOSS tags for any of the following, please please pretty please share them.

ivory, pearl, coral (I don't care if the creatures still don't drop them. I can "buy" it from my smelter, once I figure out the values for them)

containers with stuff in them. (for example, the cage the cow is in, the bag the sand is in, etc.) I figure the contents have to be listed seperately, but how do you get a barrel full of booze, and not booze in one hand and barrel in the other?... though, hey, now I have the idea for a booze-rfall. Must go attempt.

:Sadly, the boozerfall did not work. Nor the blooderfall that I had going in the smelter next to it (I figured, two trials for the price of one)... Even using a smelter to make a waterfall doesn't work. Apparently, any liquid product from the smelter, even if it is not stackable, does not flow out of the smelter, no matter how many you have... and if you unmake the smelter in the attempt to let it flow, it does not, but rather mysteriously vanishes into the unseen ether.... for my trial I used the (seemingly absurd) number 13,263. Strangely, 13263 waters will not overflow the smelter, nor run down the channels next to it, nor anything. They just sit in the smelter, making it nie impossible to use due to the liquid clutter.

:It would have been glorious, though. The plains flooded with Dwarven Ale. The gentle nurse lowering her bucket into the giant lake of booze to tote back to the wounded soldiers. The Generator [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1292-ubermistgenerator] making sweet smelling (and potentially intoxicating) mists... Sadly, this method does not work. I'll see if I can find another...

::Perhaps if I fill a room with 10000 barrels of booze, and then go mod the melting tempurature of the barrels to really low? Or, hmmm... wonder if you can make barrels out of ice? No, it acts like rock, and there are no rock barrels... except for... so maybe, hmmmm... ok! Gonna go try that next!

"plant cheeses"... like, say, tofu. ... how do I get the plants to let me make cheese from the extract? Twice I've tried, twice I've failed. I can keep experimenting, but... eh.

-
For the game designers and those who speak to them (go ahead, claim credit, I'm ok with that)... things I'd like to see in future versions...

cobalt being used like crystal in glass making to make cobalt glass... you know, that pretty blue glass everyone loves?

a way to burn wooden items to get ash or charcoal the way you can melt a metal object to get the bars back.

a way to mod the workshops themselves. For instance, when I tell the manager I want to make 300 cheeses, I don't want the "make cheese" task to fill up the farmer's workshop I've dedicated to my spinner (making plant thread). I can dedicate /who/ works there. I'd like to dedicate the kinds of tasks that can be performed there, too.

:I know I can make a task repeatable... but if I want to save out 100 of my 400 barrels of milk for direct cooking, and don't want to have to forbid them, unforbid them, etc... besides, this was an example... could just as easily be "make stone toys" at the bone carver's shop.

I'd like to see a tag to put on things like sheep that allows for sheering. I want to make wool cloth without having to slaughter my sheep for them. ... and angoras, too. Poor bunnies. Not that I get cloth now... I get leather still, but...

:Probably would have the same problem as milking currently does. Perhaps when they get around to fixing that, they may put this one in as well... if someone makes them think of it.

I'd like to be able to make dyes from animal products. For instance, there are snails that produce a lovely purple color when crushed. No, I'm not with PETA, how did you guess?

I'd like to be able to dye worked cloth. The dress was made with undyed cloth? Should be easy to fix. I'd also like to be able to redye dyed cloth. In real life it would simply add color but I'd be ok with a "paint over" kind of effect.

Maybe mix dyes to make new colors? ... The only way I can think of right now to mod that in is to have a plant for each of them and then smelt two dyes into something else, red and blue make purple like iron and pig iron make steel.

And then there's... clay. You have a perfectly good kiln and I can't figure what it's good for except making clear glass at the glass workers furnace... I wouldn't mind so much except that its a whole "workshop" with only 1 (sub)task that I don't use very much. Usually only 3 times if I even have sand (vials for the soaper), and otherwise not at all. Go ahead and add another workshop if you like (the potter's wheel) and then put that kiln to use. Suddenly you've got clay crafts (mugs, etc), bricks, etc. But only if you have a source of clay.

I think bones (raw hides, skulls, shells) should be binable. I mean, really. I have 10 fishbones a cat's skull and a turtle shell that take up the same floorspace as 12 beds?!? Put them in a bin. On raw hides: it rots. Ok, two choices. One: don't let me bin this. I'll still be happy if I can bin the friggin' bones, shells, skulls. Or, two: The rot spreads to everything it touches, and, since it's "in" something, it produces miasma. Even if the bin is outside. I don't think that "rat remains" and "dog chunks" and such should be binable. I mean, ew. Also, those don't go into the workshop stockpiles for processing. At least, not in /my/ fortresses. ... again, ew.

... One or two last thoughts before I actually post this...

Is there a way to make a mixed group of creatures that spawn together? I mean, take your average herd in Africa. You're going to have zebras and elephants and girraffs and several other things besides, often all walking together. Sure, often you find a herd of just elephants, but often you'll find one or two in a mix of other things as well. And flocks of birds who travel with them, too.

I'm considering adding a new medium-heavy mod that accounts for things like mixed herds, beehives (worker bees, queen bee, guard bees), maybe beemen... though antmen could use this, too. Antmen could maybe have pet Giant Aphids (who, storywise they milk but who aren't tamable to humanoids)...

And, thirdly (I know I said one or two)... feralization. I can keep my tame but unclaimed pets mostly in one area by defining it as a meeting zone... but if I don't... and if they wander off (even if they don't)... I think that if they don't see one of their caretakers for, oh, two seasons (maybe less... maybe a tag that says how quickly?)... they should feralize. Easy way is just to make them go back to being the wild version of that creature. If it's in the wrong biome... uh, oops? Might die sooner? Might get eaten by a grue, I mean, uh... Another way is to make a whole other classification (wild, tame, feral)... maybe it adjusts how aggressive it is. Maybe not. Maybe it adjusts how easily it goes back to being tame. Would this tag be passed on to it's young? Or would the young just be "wild" to start with? If you were near another outpost, city or whatever, would you have their feral creatures start wandering into your area on occasion? Just what you need, the neighbor's feral dragon has decided your keep is it's new home!

Ok, Done. I'll edit and such later, and reduce the noise as I get answers. Or, you know, you can if you like. Whatever.

-jaz

: I would really really like to see a little option pop up. When everything pauses and recenters because the miners struck something new on a level, and it says ... whatever it says... I'd like there to be a (d)ig, (s)trip, (f)orbid option.
::(d)ig would just dig the squares you've already designated.
::(s)trip would designate for mining squares of that type, on that level, /as they are discovered/, even if they aren't currently designated. If it's done "as discovered", you won't neccissarily know how much you're getting until it's done, thus maintaining the mystery. You should still be able to undesignate squares that have been designated automatically.
::(f)orbid would un-designate squares of that type, on that level, as they are discovered.
:That way I don't have my newbie miner failing the attempt to mine out the diamonds. I can just leave them there for later. And if I have 4 levels of mining going on, I can't watch every level all the time to see if a new deposite of something already mentioned shows up, or whatever... I can just say "no, not that" as it's discovered, and all the miners know to leave it, and all other instances of it, alone.

== Umm... Yay for vodka ==

Yay?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 02:18, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:actually, I was thinking "rootbeer", but since there are no non-alcoholic drinks in DF (except milk, which no one, not even elves, actually drinks)... well ... vodka it is! Wheee! -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

== Noise Reduction ==
Things that got answered... They will get deleted out all together at some point as I don't want this talks page to be 40 bajillion pages long.

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] distroyed my dreams of milkable cows via the [milkable:33333] tag on 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I cried. Bad you, making (potentially pretty, but who can tell through the computer screen) girls cry. No, really. Ok, I admit maybe it's not your fault, but... can you explain why the tag seems to work for the purring maggots? I don't speak geek, so go slowly. The words "hard coded" do not help, btw. I've heard that before.

-

Which brings me to paints. I think there should be a way to make paints. So-and-so likes the color lavender? Paint his room that color. I think that painting things should remove the preference bonuses for things that are made with a prefered material (if she likes oak and green, and all of her oak furnature is painted green, it gets the personal value bonus for green, but not oak.) I'm not sure I stated that clearly, but hey, whatever.

:You do realize that the Great and Mighty Toady One doesn't frequent the wiki, and isn't going to check your wiki talk page anywho. Put it on the forum. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:: I know the other Toady (my sister has been Toady longer than he has, so he's stuck with "the other one" in my mind, even if he is also the /better/ one in my mind) doesn't read these things. That's why I also said that anyone else could bring it to their attention. I'm ok with that.... (I'm not so foolish as to think Giant Toads would even notice a little olm like me.)

::(I whine now, feel free to skip)I have problems with the forum. There's too much stuff there. I can somewhat manage with the wiki because there's less to wade through since I've been wading through it since it was a wee little wiki. I have poor google-fu and don't like repeating a question that's already been answered. Makes me feel foolish and like I didn't bother to research when I just spent an hour looking for it because I worded it differently than they did. But I am happy to try twice more, because you asked.

-

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] tells me there will be a way of saying "creature A and creature B can breed together to make creature C" in the next release. I mean, where do you think mules come from? I have several donkies of both genders, I have several horses of both genders... every once in a while, instead of getting a donkey foal or a horse foal, I (will, next release) be getting a mule foal... and no, mules still can't breed (IRL, anyways. We'll see about IG).

::Will there also be a way of preventing such things? I mean, if I keep my horses in one vault and my donkies in another, am I going to get a whole seasons worth of foaling turned into mules? -- the ever curious [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-05-20T21:57:44Z

Teres Draconis: creation of "noise reduction" space that will, eventually, lead to less content as content becomes irrelevant

== the sig ==
(pulled from below to form it's own section)

again, for my benefit, because I never remember how to do this... --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.
:duh, me... there's a sig button. I've gotten used to typing it out by hand, though. No timestamp, but hey, time is relative.
::It's <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>. Comes with built in timestamp.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok, several people have commented in several places (including in that horrible meatspace place... no, not the b(u)tcher shop, the other one) about my, uh, "unusual timestamp". Part of it is that yes, there is a sig button(which I didn't see the first time because there are more than three buttons and I was more concerned with content than italics and such). Yes, there is a nifty tildy thing (which I would, no doubt, forget how many to put in anyways)... but I've gotten used to typing it out by hand, and really. Who cares /when/ it was written? It was written before you read it this time, and after last time (if there was one)... or possibly, if you've read the comment in question a few times, the time three before that. It should be clear in context of who it's responding to (of?) what it was written after, and who commented on it and therefore wrote after it, ...and, really, does it truly change the nature of the universe ''if it was always there and you just didn't notice''??? So, thank you all for your helpful pointing out of things that at one point or other I didn't know. I do really apreciate it because yes, I am new, and no, I don't know everything. And yes, there are still many things I seek to learn. I think, though, I will continue on my merry way, typing it out by hand, with my own unusual timestamp. -- jaz (you're on my page, you don't get a link) ... on this day, sometime after the post being commented on.

== Definately not FOUO ==
Hehe... FOUO huh? :p -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

:No. Definately not. For everyone's use... The page that is, not me. I'm definately FOUO and permissions are hard to come by. - jaz

== My personal note taking place ==

A lot of the following is just for my own personal note taking stuff. Feel free to add or comment or whatever. I don't mind.
Some of these questions may be answered in the forums. I'll go check at some point, until then, this is where I'm storing my questions so I don't forget what it was I wanted to ask. ... the personality tags aught to have one for forgetfulness... which would related directly to how long they continue to think about things that have happened. One who was extremely forgetful might not list "slept in the rain" for as long as someone who had a clear recollection of things long past.

I play three versions of the game, randomly... one, the pure, out of the box, only thing messed with are the init files. Another with minor modifications to things like, oh... domestic cats are spayed when captured (affected by the child tags being replaced with [NO_GENDER])... we'll just pretend that they continue to breed like crazy out in the wilds.

---
For my modding purposes (uh, I've turned the smelter into a store to "buy" stuff from) , if anyone knows the TYPE:SUBTYPE:MATERIAL:MATGLOSS tags for any of the following, please please pretty please share them.

ivory, pearl, coral (I don't care if the creatures still don't drop them. I can "buy" it from my smelter, once I figure out the values for them)

containers with stuff in them. (for example, the cage the cow is in, the bag the sand is in, etc.) I figure the contents have to be listed seperately, but how do you get a barrel full of booze, and not booze in one hand and barrel in the other?... though, hey, now I have the idea for a booze-rfall. Must go attempt.

:Sadly, the boozerfall did not work. Nor the blooderfall that I had going in the smelter next to it (I figured, two trials for the price of one)... Even using a smelter to make a waterfall doesn't work. Apparently, any liquid product from the smelter, even if it is not stackable, does not flow out of the smelter, no matter how many you have... and if you unmake the smelter in the attempt to let it flow, it does not, but rather mysteriously vanishes into the unseen ether.... for my trial I used the (seemingly absurd) number 13,263. Strangely, 13263 waters will not overflow the smelter, nor run down the channels next to it, nor anything. They just sit in the smelter, making it nie impossible to use due to the liquid clutter.

:It would have been glorious, though. The plains flooded with Dwarven Ale. The gentle nurse lowering her bucket into the giant lake of booze to tote back to the wounded soldiers. The Generator [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1292-ubermistgenerator] making sweet smelling (and potentially intoxicating) mists... Sadly, this method does not work. I'll see if I can find another...

::Perhaps if I fill a room with 10000 barrels of booze, and then go mod the melting tempurature of the barrels to really low? Or, hmmm... wonder if you can make barrels out of ice? No, it acts like rock, and there are no rock barrels... except for... so maybe, hmmmm... ok! Gonna go try that next!

"plant cheeses"... like, say, tofu. ... how do I get the plants to let me make cheese from the extract? Twice I've tried, twice I've failed. I can keep experimenting, but... eh.

-
For the game designers and those who speak to them (go ahead, claim credit, I'm ok with that)... things I'd like to see in future versions...

cobalt being used like crystal in glass making to make cobalt glass... you know, that pretty blue glass everyone loves?

a way to burn wooden items to get ash or charcoal the way you can melt a metal object to get the bars back.

a way to mod the workshops themselves. For instance, when I tell the manager I want to make 300 cheeses, I don't want the "make cheese" task to fill up the farmer's workshop I've dedicated to my spinner (making plant thread). I can dedicate /who/ works there. I'd like to dedicate the kinds of tasks that can be performed there, too.

:I know I can make a task repeatable... but if I want to save out 100 of my 400 barrels of milk for direct cooking, and don't want to have to forbid them, unforbid them, etc... besides, this was an example... could just as easily be "make stone toys" at the bone carver's shop.

I'd like to see a tag to put on things like sheep that allows for sheering. I want to make wool cloth without having to slaughter my sheep for them. ... and angoras, too. Poor bunnies. Not that I get cloth now... I get leather still, but...

:Probably would have the same problem as milking currently does. Perhaps when they get around to fixing that, they may put this one in as well... if someone makes them think of it.

I'd like to be able to make dyes from animal products. For instance, there are snails that produce a lovely purple color when crushed. No, I'm not with PETA, how did you guess?

I'd like to be able to dye worked cloth. The dress was made with undyed cloth? Should be easy to fix. I'd also like to be able to redye dyed cloth. In real life it would simply add color but I'd be ok with a "paint over" kind of effect.

Maybe mix dyes to make new colors? ... The only way I can think of right now to mod that in is to have a plant for each of them and then smelt two dyes into something else, red and blue make purple like iron and pig iron make steel.

And then there's... clay. You have a perfectly good kiln and I can't figure what it's good for except making clear glass at the glass workers furnace... I wouldn't mind so much except that its a whole "workshop" with only 1 (sub)task that I don't use very much. Usually only 3 times if I even have sand (vials for the soaper), and otherwise not at all. Go ahead and add another workshop if you like (the potter's wheel) and then put that kiln to use. Suddenly you've got clay crafts (mugs, etc), bricks, etc. But only if you have a source of clay.

I think bones (raw hides, skulls, shells) should be binable. I mean, really. I have 10 fishbones a cat's skull and a turtle shell that take up the same floorspace as 12 beds?!? Put them in a bin. On raw hides: it rots. Ok, two choices. One: don't let me bin this. I'll still be happy if I can bin the friggin' bones, shells, skulls. Or, two: The rot spreads to everything it touches, and, since it's "in" something, it produces miasma. Even if the bin is outside. I don't think that "rat remains" and "dog chunks" and such should be binable. I mean, ew. Also, those don't go into the workshop stockpiles for processing. At least, not in /my/ fortresses. ... again, ew.

... One or two last thoughts before I actually post this...

Is there a way to make a mixed group of creatures that spawn together? I mean, take your average herd in Africa. You're going to have zebras and elephants and girraffs and several other things besides, often all walking together. Sure, often you find a herd of just elephants, but often you'll find one or two in a mix of other things as well. And flocks of birds who travel with them, too.

I'm considering adding a new medium-heavy mod that accounts for things like mixed herds, beehives (worker bees, queen bee, guard bees), maybe beemen... though antmen could use this, too. Antmen could maybe have pet Giant Aphids (who, storywise they milk but who aren't tamable to humanoids)...

And, thirdly (I know I said one or two)... feralization. I can keep my tame but unclaimed pets mostly in one area by defining it as a meeting zone... but if I don't... and if they wander off (even if they don't)... I think that if they don't see one of their caretakers for, oh, two seasons (maybe less... maybe a tag that says how quickly?)... they should feralize. Easy way is just to make them go back to being the wild version of that creature. If it's in the wrong biome... uh, oops? Might die sooner? Might get eaten by a grue, I mean, uh... Another way is to make a whole other classification (wild, tame, feral)... maybe it adjusts how aggressive it is. Maybe not. Maybe it adjusts how easily it goes back to being tame. Would this tag be passed on to it's young? Or would the young just be "wild" to start with? If you were near another outpost, city or whatever, would you have their feral creatures start wandering into your area on occasion? Just what you need, the neighbor's feral dragon has decided your keep is it's new home!

Ok, Done. I'll edit and such later, and reduce the noise as I get answers. Or, you know, you can if you like. Whatever.

-jaz

: I would really really like to see a little option pop up. When everything pauses and recenters because the miners struck something new on a level, and it says ... whatever it says... I'd like there to be a (d)ig, (s)trip, (f)orbid option.
::(d)ig would just dig the squares you've already designated.
::(s)trip would designate for mining squares of that type, on that level, /as they are discovered/, even if they aren't currently designated. If it's done "as discovered", you won't neccissarily know how much you're getting until it's done, thus maintaining the mystery. You should still be able to undesignate squares that have been designated automatically.
::(f)orbid would un-designate squares of that type, on that level, as they are discovered.
:That way I don't have my newbie miner failing the attempt to mine out the diamonds. I can just leave them there for later. And if I have 4 levels of mining going on, I can't watch every level all the time to see if a new deposite of something already mentioned shows up, or whatever... I can just say "no, not that" as it's discovered, and all the miners know to leave it, and all other instances of it, alone.

== Umm... Yay for vodka ==

Yay?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 02:18, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:actually, I was thinking "rootbeer", but since there are no non-alcoholic drinks in DF (except milk, which no one, not even elves, actually drinks)... well ... vodka it is! Wheee! -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.

== Noise Reduction ==
Things that got answered... They will get deleted out all together at some point as I don't want this talks page to be 40 bajillion pages long.

User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] distroyed my dreams of milkable cows via the [milkable:33333] tag on 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I cried. Bad you, making (potentially pretty, but who can tell through the computer screen) girls cry. No, really. Ok, I admit maybe it's not your fault, but... can you explain why the tag seems to work for the purring maggots? I don't speak geek, so go slowly. The words "hard coded" do not help, btw. I've heard that before.

-

Which brings me to paints. I think there should be a way to make paints. So-and-so likes the color lavender? Paint his room that color. I think that painting things should remove the preference bonuses for things that are made with a prefered material (if she likes oak and green, and all of her oak furnature is painted green, it gets the personal value bonus for green, but not oak.) I'm not sure I stated that clearly, but hey, whatever.

:You do realize that the Great and Mighty Toady One doesn't frequent the wiki, and isn't going to check your wiki talk page anywho. Put it on the forum. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:: I know the other Toady (my sister has been Toady longer than he has, so he's stuck with "the other one" in my mind, even if he is also the /better/ one in my mind) doesn't read these things. That's why I also said that anyone else could bring it to their attention. I'm ok with that.... (I'm not so foolish as to think Giant Toads would even notice a little olm like me.)

::(I whine now, feel free to skip)I have problems with the forum. There's too much stuff there. I can somewhat manage with the wiki because there's less to wade through since I've been wading through it since it was a wee little wiki. I have poor google-fu and don't like repeating a question that's already been answered. Makes me feel foolish and like I didn't bother to research when I just spent an hour looking for it because I worded it differently than they did. But I am happy to try twice more, because you asked.

-

[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] tells me there will be a way of saying "creature A and creature B can breed together to make creature C" in the next release. I mean, where do you think mules come from? I have several donkies of both genders, I have several horses of both genders... every once in a while, instead of getting a donkey foal or a horse foal, I (will, next release) be getting a mule foal... and no, mules still can't breed (IRL, anyways. We'll see about IG).

::Will there also be a way of preventing such things? I mean, if I keep my horses in one vault and my donkies in another, am I going to get a whole seasons worth of foaling turned into mules? -- the ever curious [[user:Teres_Draconis|jaz]]

User talk:Teres Draconis

2009-05-20T21:50:45Z

Teres Draconis: /* My personal note taking place */ editing and noise reduction.... well, ok, noise movement for future noise reduction.

== the sig ==
(pulled from below to form it's own section)

again, for my benefit, because I never remember how to do this... --[[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.
:duh, me... there's a sig button. I've gotten used to typing it out by hand, though. No timestamp, but hey, time is relative.
::It's <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>. Comes with built in timestamp.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 23:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok, several people have commented in several places (including in that horrible meatspace place... no, not the b(u)tcher shop, the other one) about my, uh, "unusual timestamp". Part of it is that yes, there is a sig button(which I didn't see the first time because there are more than three buttons and I was more concerned with content than italics and such). Yes, there is a nifty tildy thing (which I would, no doubt, forget how many to put in anyways)... but I've gotten used to typing it out by hand, and really. Who cares /when/ it was written? It was written before you read it this time, and after last time (if there was one)... or possibly, if you've read the comment in question a few times, the time three before that. It should be clear in context of who it's responding to (of?) what it was written after, and who commented on it and therefore wrote after it, ...and, really, does it truly change the nature of the universe ''if it was always there and you just didn't notice''??? So, thank you all for your helpful pointing out of things that at one point or other I didn't know. I do really apreciate it because yes, I am new, and no, I don't know everything. And yes, there are still many things I seek to learn. I think, though, I will continue on my merry way, typing it out by hand, with my own unusual timestamp. -- jaz (you're on my page, you don't get a link) ... on this day, sometime after the post being commented on.

== Definately not FOUO ==
Hehe... FOUO huh? :p -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

:No. Definately not. For everyone's use... The page that is, not me. I'm definately FOUO and permissions are hard to come by. - jaz

== My personal note taking place ==

A lot of the following is just for my own personal note taking stuff. Feel free to add or comment or whatever. I don't mind.
Some of these questions may be answered in the forums. I'll go check at some point, until then, this is where I'm storing my questions so I don't forget what it was I wanted to ask. ... the personality tags aught to have one for forgetfulness... which would related directly to how long they continue to think about things that have happened. One who was extremely forgetful might not list "slept in the rain" for as long as someone who had a clear recollection of things long past.

I play three versions of the game, randomly... one, the pure, out of the box, only thing messed with are the init files. Another with minor modifications to things like, oh... domestic cats are spayed when captured (affected by the child tags being replaced with [NO_GENDER])... we'll just pretend that they continue to breed like crazy out in the wilds.

---
For my modding purposes (uh, I've turned the smelter into a store to "buy" stuff from) , if anyone knows the TYPE:SUBTYPE:MATERIAL:MATGLOSS tags for any of the following, please please pretty please share them.

ivory, pearl, coral (I don't care if the creatures still don't drop them. I can "buy" it from my smelter, once I figure out the values for them)

containers with stuff in them. (for example, the cage the cow is in, the bag the sand is in, etc.) I figure the contents have to be listed seperately, but how do you get a barrel full of booze, and not booze in one hand and barrel in the other?... though, hey, now I have the idea for a booze-rfall. Must go attempt.

:Sadly, the boozerfall did not work. Nor the blooderfall that I had going in the smelter next to it (I figured, two trials for the price of one)... Even using a smelter to make a waterfall doesn't work. Apparently, any liquid product from the smelter, even if it is not stackable, does not flow out of the smelter, no matter how many you have... and if you unmake the smelter in the attempt to let it flow, it does not, but rather mysteriously vanishes into the unseen ether.... for my trial I used the (seemingly absurd) number 13,263. Strangely, 13263 waters will not overflow the smelter, nor run down the channels next to it, nor anything. They just sit in the smelter, making it nie impossible to use due to the liquid clutter.

:It would have been glorious, though. The plains flooded with Dwarven Ale. The gentle nurse lowering her bucket into the giant lake of booze to tote back to the wounded soldiers. The Generator [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1292-ubermistgenerator] making sweet smelling (and potentially intoxicating) mists... Sadly, this method does not work. I'll see if I can find another...

::Perhaps if I fill a room with 10000 barrels of booze, and then go mod the melting tempurature of the barrels to really low? Or, hmmm... wonder if you can make barrels out of ice? No, it acts like rock, and there are no rock barrels... except for... so maybe, hmmmm... ok! Gonna go try that next!

"plant cheeses"... like, say, tofu. ... how do I get the plants to let me make cheese from the extract? Twice I've tried, twice I've failed. I can keep experimenting, but... eh.

----
For the game designers and those who speak to them (go ahead, claim credit, I'm ok with that)... things I'd like to see in future versions...

cobalt being used like crystal in glass making to make cobalt glass... you know, that pretty blue glass everyone loves?

a way to burn wooden items to get ash or charcoal the way you can melt a metal object to get the bars back.

a way to mod the workshops themselves. For instance, when I tell the manager I want to make 300 cheeses, I don't want the "make cheese" task to fill up the farmer's workshop I've dedicated to my spinner (making plant thread). I can dedicate /who/ works there. I'd like to dedicate the kinds of tasks that can be performed there, too.

:I know I can make a task repeatable... but if I want to save out 100 of my 400 barrels of milk for direct cooking, and don't want to have to forbid them, unforbid them, etc... besides, this was an example... could just as easily be "make stone toys" at the bone carver's shop.

I'd like to see a tag to put on things like sheep that allows for sheering. I want to make wool cloth without having to slaughter my sheep for them. ... and angoras, too. Poor bunnies. Not that I get cloth now... I get leather still, but...

:Probably would have the same problem as milking currently does. Perhaps when they get around to fixing that, they may put this one in as well... if someone makes them think of it.

I'd like to be able to make dyes from animal products. For instance, there are snails that produce a lovely purple color when crushed. No, I'm not with PETA, how did you guess?

I'd like to be able to dye worked cloth. The dress was made with undyed cloth? Should be easy to fix. I'd also like to be able to redye dyed cloth. In real life it would simply add color but I'd be ok with a "paint over" kind of effect.

Maybe mix dyes to make new colors? ... The only way I can think of right now to mod that in is to have a plant for each of them and then smelt two dyes into something else, red and blue make purple like iron and pig iron make steel.

And then there's... clay. You have a perfectly good kiln and I can't figure what it's good for except making clear glass at the glass workers furnace... I wouldn't mind so much except that its a whole "workshop" with only 1 (sub)task that I don't use very much. Usually only 3 times if I even have sand (vials for the soaper), and otherwise not at all. Go ahead and add another workshop if you like (the potter's wheel) and then put that kiln to use. Suddenly you've got clay crafts (mugs, etc), bricks, etc. But only if you have a source of clay.

I think bones (raw hides, skulls, shells) should be binable. I mean, really. I have 10 fishbones a cat's skull and a turtle shell that take up the same floorspace as 12 beds?!? Put them in a bin. On raw hides: it rots. Ok, two choices. One: don't let me bin this. I'll still be happy if I can bin the friggin' bones, shells, skulls. Or, two: The rot spreads to everything it touches, and, since it's "in" something, it produces miasma. Even if the bin is outside. I don't think that "rat remains" and "dog chunks" and such should be binable. I mean, ew. Also, those don't go into the workshop stockpiles for processing. At least, not in /my/ fortresses. ... again, ew.

... One or two last thoughts before I actually post this...

Is there a way to make a mixed group of creatures that spawn together? I mean, take your average herd in Africa. You're going to have zebras and elephants and girraffs and several other things besides, often all walking together. Sure, often you find a herd of just elephants, but often you'll find one or two in a mix of other things as well. And flocks of birds who travel with them, too.

I'm considering adding a new medium-heavy mod that accounts for things like mixed herds, beehives (worker bees, queen bee, guard bees), maybe beemen... though antmen could use this, too. Antmen could maybe have pet Giant Aphids (who, storywise they milk but who aren't tamable to humanoids)...

And, thirdly (I know I said one or two)... feralization. I can keep my tame but unclaimed pets mostly in one area by defining it as a meeting zone... but if I don't... and if they wander off (even if they don't)... I think that if they don't see one of their caretakers for, oh, two seasons (maybe less... maybe a tag that says how quickly?)... they should feralize. Easy way is just to make them go back to being the wild version of that creature. If it's in the wrong biome... uh, oops? Might die sooner? Might get eaten by a grue, I mean, uh... Another way is to make a whole other classification (wild, tame, feral)... maybe it adjusts how aggressive it is. Maybe not. Maybe it adjusts how easily it goes back to being tame. Would this tag be passed on to it's young? Or would the young just be "wild" to start with? If you were near another outpost, city or whatever, would you have their feral creatures start wandering into your area on occasion? Just what you need, the neighbor's feral dragon has decided your keep is it's new home!

Ok, Done. I'll edit and such later, and reduce the noise as I get answers. Or, you know, you can if you like. Whatever.

-jaz

: I would really really like to see a little option pop up. When everything pauses and recenters because the miners struck something new on a level, and it says ... whatever it says... I'd like there to be a (d)ig, (s)trip, (f)orbid option.
::(d)ig would just dig the squares you've already designated.
::(s)trip would designate for mining squares of that type, on that level, /as they are discovered/, even if they aren't currently designated. If it's done "as discovered", you won't neccissarily know how much you're getting until it's done, thus maintaining the mystery. You should still be able to undesignate squares that have been designated automatically.
::(f)orbid would un-designate squares of that type, on that level, as they are discovered.
:That way I don't have my newbie miner failing the attempt to mine out the diamonds. I can just leave them there for later. And if I have 4 levels of mining going on, I can't watch every level all the time to see if a new deposite of something already mentioned shows up, or whatever... I can just say "no, not that" as it's discovered, and all the miners know to leave it, and all other instances of it, alone.

== Umm... Yay for vodka ==

Yay?--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 02:18, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:actually, I was thinking "rootbeer", but since there are no non-alcoholic drinks in DF (except milk, which no one, not even elves, actually drinks)... well ... vodka it is! Wheee! -- [[User:Teres_Draconis|jaz]] ... on this day, at this time.