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40d Talk:Military

2009-06-21T01:57:21Z

Tommyarna:

AFAIK, drafting unhappiness is more precice - ANY military skills will mitigate the "draft" thought, and ANY civilian skills will prevent grumpiness about "being relieved." Don't have proof, though, and I can't check just ATM - can someone look at this?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 20:53, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I checked a little. Dabbling skills are not enough, but novice military skills are sufficient to prevent unhappiness about being drafted, while novice civilian skills prevent angst when the dwarves are relived. Is it ok as long as they don't become peasants or recruits? --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 21:53, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Tests:
* Novice Jeweler
** enlisted - unhappy
** trained to Novice Marksdwarf
** unenlist - did not complain
* Dabbling Butcher
** enlisted - unhappy
** trained to Novice Marksdwarf
** unenlist - unhappy
Will update again when dwarfs are no longer unhappy. Also, it seems to me that marksdwarves need to be stationed near the barracks to practice when they are standing down - can anyone confirm this? --[[User:Mechturk|Mechturk]] 21:53, 4 November 2007 (EST)

I can also add results to the tests above:
* Novice Marksdwarf / Novice Butcher
** enlisted - No unhappy thought
** unenlisted - No unhappy thought
* Novice Butcher only
** enlisted - unhappy
** unenlisted - no unhappy thought
* Novice Axedwarf / Dabbling Planter
** enlisted - No unhappy thought
** unenlisted - unhappy.
Dwarves don't need to be stationed near the barracks for sparring practice when off-duty, mine (Axedwarves and Marksdwarves) are stationed almost 5 full screens away. [[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 03:59, 5 November 2007 (EST)

== Injuries while sparring ==

It IS still possible to get grievous injuries while sparring. I currently have two guards resting with injuries, one maimed and one with a broken limb. Mitigating circumstances? Near-masterwork steel battleaxes and no armor. On the other hand, none of them are Strong or anything (or Tough, for that matter). Also I just checked and I have a Wrestler with a left lung and upper spine maimed too, couldn't be from anything else but sparring with the over-equipped guards, and he was wearing iron chainmail AND was Agile, Tough. I'd make the change myself but I'm too clueless about wikis and don't want to break some law of etiquette.

:I wrote the paragraph before, I shall amend if with your new information --[[User:Matryx|Matryx]] 09:19, 5 November 2007 (EST)

Interestingly, I've had no major injuries with wrestler sparring in 3 years. A couple bruises, nothing more. Only thing I can see different is that I have a massive barracks, with 3 rooms and inner doors. When they 'spar' next to each other, there can be some minor bruising, but they gain skill when they aren't next to each other. They do have iron bucklers and full steel chainmail which helps, but my barracks doesn't even have blood on the floor 95% of the time. Perhaps larger barracks are the way to go, or was I just lucky? --Gotthard 12:03, 10 December 2007 (EST)

:I've had many announcements of guards/soldiers suffocating to death due to sparring with a wrestler. --Esoterrik 6:27, 4/10/08

::That may have been due to miners getting critical hits with their picks, I think picks still have a massive critical boost like spears do. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 23:52, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:::Picks have the same crit boost as spears - see [[Weapon#Weapon_statistics]]. In fact, for military purposes, picks '''are''' spears that use the mining instead of the speardwarf skill and do 30% less damage. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:13, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Another report on sparring over 10 years in a single room large barracks. I've got only two notable injuries, both nervous system, and both light grey or brown. They were only acquired by dwarves after I started training spears, and to two of four dwarves who hadn't yet received platemail. In addition to the large barracks I've also been using silver weapons for training and layering armor. They're all also legendary wrestlers before any started weapons training. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 14:30, 13 December 2008 (EST)

== Discarded equipment ==

I have noticed that if I have civilians wandering around who get interrupted by wild critters, if I draft them they are fairly inclined to dump whatever they are carrying and then follow orders. If their preferences are set to have certain millitary equipment then they will disregard whatever other orders I set to go off and try to make their inventory match their orders.

I don't really have a problem with any of that.
What I '''do''' have a problem with, is when I de-list/de-{{key|A}}ctivate them, they dump their millitary items wherever they happen to be.
So it means I should really only deactivate millitary types when they are close to a weapon & armour stockpile I guess?
Any other opinion/advice/observations on this issue?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:55, 13 February 2008 (EST)

== War ==

A goblin just snatched one of the babies out of my fortress.... Any way to take the war to these b@$+@rds? - [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 09:22, 23 March 2008 (EST)

:Not yet... that's the Army Arc, which Toady is working on right now. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:31, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

==Dual wield?==

(note: this is not dual wielding, this is the dwarf carrying a backup weapon slung across their back in case the first weapon becomes stuck in a combatant)
why then does my dwarf carry a short silver sword in each hand? [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 12:00, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

My dwarves set to carry 2 weapons also drop their sheild. This does not necessarily mean that they are dual wielding, but it is a negative to them carrying 2 weapons. --[[User:Esoterrik1|Esoterrik1]] 16:27, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

==Cross-training/Reserves Program==

I think it's kind of sad that we don't have a section in this part of the wiki about cross-training or making a reserves program where you use civilian levelups to get stat increases for your military dwarves. It not only makes for better armies, it staves off unhappiness if you ever need to relieve some dwarves of duty. These little tips are spread throughout the wiki in weird places, and I think they really ought to be consolidated here. Going spit out a first draft of something like that in this spot so it can be discussed and edited before being added or put in its own page.

Please use this space (and not some spot inside the article) to discuss and note your changes.<br>
--[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 14:38, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

Nobody is commenting on it so I'm assuming people are fine with it. Adding this into the article. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 12:31, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

"Internship (Bookkeeper) - Turn on Highest precision bookkeeping and rotate the appointed noble in and out the second he becomes a Legendary Bookkeeper." Can this go wrong if I don't switch the dwarf out before attaining highest precision? I have a legendary bookkeeper who attained highest precision, and now no other dwarf will take on bookkeeping jobs, despite being appointed to the job and having the office requirements met. The settings screen always reads: "Your bookkeeper has done enough work to attain the highest precision" (DF version 40d).
[[User:Edenicholas|Edenicholas]] 01:49, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
: Basically, the bookkeeper only has work if the stores change significantly enough for the precision. Unfortunately, this is not always under your direct control. *wrinkles nose* If you read through the Bookkeeper article and the associated talk pages, apparently at some point highest precision meant they worked on it frequently no matter what, but I agree that in 40d, this doesn't always seem to hold true. Ensure that you have enough stores to require frequent counting (it's what, a thousand items at least before the gain or loss of 10 or so puts you out of spec?). That's the closest I can find to actual advice for you. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 07:56, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
<br>
: Yeah, starting fairly recently the Bookkeeper will only do the extra work when it's needed. You can ensure that it is always needed by keeping a Gulag active (thus producing scads of stone), and keeping Mason shops active by requisitioning lots of Blocks. Also make sure to buy plenty from the caravans -- a full shipment of logs will wreak havoc on the stockpile books (lots of logs in, lots of crafts out). Still, though, it might be a good idea to make a gym and set your clerk to Pump Operation on top if it. You may end up with a Legendary Pump Operator/Adept Bookkeeper, but even by that point Bookkeeping has given the dwarf a few nice stat upgrades, and the lucky intern is now an ideal candidate for the military. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:05, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
:: While I don't know if it's optimized, I used to set my Bookkeeper up as one of the fortress's hunters. Between the bookkeeping operations, he was out getting archery practice on the local wildlife. And with the legendary stat increases, he was fully capable of bashing foes through the air with his crossbow alone when he ran out of bolts. He never has increased very far on his Ambusher skill though... -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:19, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

The article seems to be getting a bit long in the tooth. Perhaps split "Reserves program" and "Army engineers" into a different article? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 03:35, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

:Agreed. The "cross-training" advice is good for any dwarf you want to beef up (which should be all of them, not just your military). The Corps of Engineers is an excessively elaborate way of saying you want one or more high-skill mason/building designers and mechanics in your fort.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 10:36, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

::I honestly wasn't sure where to put the Corps of Engineers bit. I considered putting it in its own article or attaching it to a couple others, but ended up putting it here because in my experience having them around benefits your military more than anything else. I haven't been around too long, so I'm not sure how people like to organize things here, so move it as it pleases you.<br>

::Also, the Corps advice goes beyond just a couple high skill masons and mechanics, the way I see it. They serve a very important niche in any fort, and it goes into a lot of detail about how to train them most efficiently. If you see a way to shorten it, please do so by all means; I proofread it a couple times trying to figure out how to do so, but I couldn't come up with anything - more or less everything I put in there is what I feel is needed detail. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:32, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

:::With no real argument against splitting, it's been done. Info can now be found at [[cross-training]]. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 22:20, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

== smoothing near river? ==

# Careless designation of smoothing areas may have your dwarves trying to smooth walls too close to magma or a river.

Why is this bad? the article on smoothing doesn't say. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 13:59, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
:I'd imagine it's because dwarfs aren't very smart and may either incite the local fauna, or fall in. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 15:03, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

:Maybe they try to smooth the "wet" side, which would probably result in a cancellation message.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 10:38, 18 October 2008 (EDT)
::They don't do this. I flooded my swimming pool before it was totally smoothed and my engravers just politely ignored my designations until I had drained it for them. The larger issue is that rivers and magma pools can all contain Bad Things (tm) like carp or magma men, which puts your dwarves at an unnessecery risk. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:35, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

== Encumbrance ==

This is a really impressive amount of research, and I suggest it now is large enough to deserve its own page, with a link from here. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 19:49, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:Thanks. A split would be fine; [[Equipment and encumbrance]], maybe?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:31, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:: That's definitely got my vote over just "Encumbrance." I keep forgetting what sort of page titles are valid in a wiki. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 01:29, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Done. It certainly got more elaborate than I had initially intended. It was fun writing it, though.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:55, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

== Carrying two weapons ==

Ok, I have a dwarf champion with legendary in all weapon types (well, that can be equipped. No whips for him.) armor, shields and wrestling. He has the highest possible listed attributes and is currently wearing legendary steel greaves and plate (I got really lucky).

My question is, is there a way for me to make him carry two weapons around? Honestly, I took off his shield for the last goblin siege and he didn't get hurt at all (I think he had a bruised lower leg which healed in about one turn, it seemed).

I just think he would be better off carrying two weapons around instead of his shield, but the labor menu is totally blocked off, including hunting and soldiering. Is there any way to actually get him to carry that second weapon?[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 19:47, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:{{k|m}}ilitary-{{k|w}}weapons, right arrow over to where it says #:1, hit Enter. It's possible you'll also need to set "shield" to none. I've never tried out double weapons before. But given that he can get still injured, I personally wouldn't fool with it. Especially if you go up against elite bowmen: you'll end up with a legendary pincushion that menaces with spikes of iron.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:39, 8 November 2008 (EST)

::I suppose you have a point. Last ambush he only went against one bowman (who managed to badly bruise his shield arm, the bastard!) and some macegoblins. I'll just work on that legendary shield.[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 20:52, 8 November 2008 (EST)

::: The menu Maximus is talking about is only for the number of weapons he carries with him. If a weapon gets stuck in an enemy, a dwarf carrying two weapons will be able to use the second weapon. Dwarves can carry a weapon and a shield in the same hand anyway, so I doubt you need to turn off shields. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:28, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:::Those who I've set to use this option I've seen holding both of their weapons in one hand, and a shield in the other. Somehow this seems to work well! --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 03:08, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Patrol Issues ==

I've had troubles getting certain units to move as a squad. My marksdwarf squad seems to do just fine, but my four other soldiers need to be leaders of their own squads to be able to move anywhere. Otherwise, the leader of that squad runs off to die, and the others just continue using the patrol routes they had when they were in their own squads. How do I fix this? TomMyarna

40d Talk:Military

2009-06-21T01:56:16Z

Tommyarna:

40d Talk:Philosopher

2009-06-20T05:31:59Z

Tommyarna: /* Arrival Data */

==Arrival Data==

Thought we could start posting any significant information or events related to the philosopher arriving, in an attempt to work out what causes it. The philosopher arrived for me in the first migrant wave after breaking 110 population, in the spring of my 4th year. Fortress wealth was 124879, and one of my Axe Lords had just become a Champion. Nothing else significant occured between that migrant wave and the previous one. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 14:46, 26 November 2007 (EST)

In the previous version the philosopher came when you hit 100 dwarves. The philosopher came when I hit 100 in this version too. [[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 15:30, 26 November 2007 (EST)

: I cannot confirm this. I had 101 Dwarves, and the next immigrant wave did not include the philosopher. [[User:Drahflow|Drahflow]] 15:23, 29 January 2008 (EST)

: I cannot confirm this either. I have 106 Dwarves and with this immigration arriving just after an Elf caravan left a Wise man arrived. I can think of nothing I've recently done that may have triggered it either. [[User:Khimaera_UK|Khimaera_UK]] 14:29, 27th December 2008 (GMT)

My philosopher just showed up. He showed up by himself with no other immigrants. I had 100+ dwarves, but tragedy struck (quite a bit) a couple seasons ago, and now I only have 93. [[User:Holyfool|Holyfool]] 13:40, 7 March 2008 (EST)

My first encounter with a Philosopher; pop 127 (has been >120 since the last immigration, raised again more recently by several births). Created wealth: 516819, imported: 336914, exported: 24047. -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 20:35, 6 April 2008 (EDT)

I was in middle of trading with the elves when my philosopher came (Just now). But before the elves came, I was working on a sorting scheme to dispose of the elves as 'CrazyMcfobo Absolutely detests elves' My wealth was well over a million, and populating is just over 100.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 17:20, 10 April 2008 (EDT)

He came to mine when my population hit 133. I have about 20 military dwarves, half of which are currently in the guard. I also had plenty of jail and bedroom space. I had a Imported Wealth of 393,564*, and 816 seeds. I also had 19 farmers and 12 craftsdwarves... but apart from that there isnt really a lot more to say. Seems to come at high population counts.

I have recieved the Philosopher with a population of just 99, although I have had population levels higher in the past. The Philosopher came in spring, just after I had annoyed the Elves with an ash amulet that accidently slipped into my export. Rest of stats as follows: Created Wealth: 1250863 Imported Wealth: 820901 Exported Wealth: 22041. Of note perhaps is that earlier in the spring I gained another legendary dwarf, bringing the count of legendarys up to 17, another 7 legendarys are dead--[[User:ArkTane|ArkTane]] 19:22, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

Arrival - Population:130 ; Created wealth:1,575,988 ; Food stores:9,290 (seeds:2433, drink:3105, other:3208) ; 13 legendary dwarves ; 6 royal guard, 13 fortress guard, 2 elite wrestlers ; 10 noble positions w/ 8 nobles, not counting philosopher ; 9 artifacts ; mid-spring arrival. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 17:44, 13 August 2008 (EDT)

Arrival - Population:108 ; Created Wealth 897,805 ; Food stores:1082 ; 3 nobles aside from philosopher ; 7 artifacts ; mid-spring arrival. Just prior to the philosopher's arrival, I started my glass industry, built some windows, installed them around a lake, and channeled out the wall between the lake and the windows making a useless and big aquarium. Maybe the philosopher appreciates wastes of time? [[User:Lungfish|Lungfish]]

Arrival mid spring - population 161 ; Created wealth 800k+ ; foodstores probably 5k+ ; 6 nobles including duke/duchess, hammerer, DM, tax collector and I had the King Incoming for a couple of seasons(the baron kept being promoted every season before that) ; 2 royal guard, 8 fortress guard ; I had every industry long underway ; my tax collector got more experienced; 7 artifacts. I had been at pop 100+ for a significant time so I assumed it had to do with the king being incoming. I had the first managerial job completed that season. --[[User:Egregius|Egregius]] 14:30, 28 January 2009 (EST)

Arrival - Population 176; created wealth 1053219; arrived along with all other nobles up to Countess. All arrived together and with no other migrants; just finished a flooded tunnel trap that should kill invaders and finished giving EVERY single one of my dwarves a bedroom except for children and babies.

Arrival - Population 111 (112 with him). Created weath 1 135 479. He arrived alone. No other migrants arrived with him. I have 14 legendaries, and around the time he arrived I had JUST created bedrooms for all NON-MILITARY Dwarves. The military have 4 beds for about 15 dwarves. I only had one other noble: Dungeon Master, not counting mayor and my bookkeeper, etc. No Fortress Guard, no Royal Guard, no guard of any sort. --[[User:Inoko|Inoko]] 22:05, 7 March 2009 (EST)

130 population. 1,479,923 created wealth of which 696,076 is architecture. 470,259 imported wealth, 28,006 exported. 16 legendary dwarves of which only 4 are military. He arrived by himself separate of any normal migration in Mid-Spring. My military is a total of 8 dwarves, the Royal Guard is 4/8, and the Fortress Guard is non-existant. Everyone has their own cheap and affordable bedrooms. Hopefully at least some of this is relevant. [[User:Erdtirdmans|ErdTirdMans]] 6:10, 17 March 2009 (EST)

Pop. 113 (ph. including), never was higher, 2 dead dwarves, 3.5 mio wealth, NO guards NO justice, the usual 6 nobles (countess). However, I had the first soldiers turn elite and also 2 champions in the half year before he arrived, in spring, right after the elves. --[[User:Höhlenschreck|Höhlenschreck]] 00:10, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I had 105 dwarves with about 6 or 7 dead at that point, with no economy set up and no nobles beyond the mayor, broker, manager, and treasurer. He arrived soon after my first siege.

==URGENT!! PHILOSOPHER DOING WORK!!==

I was just looking around my fort when a noble (i thought it was my mayor) started demolishing a wall. Then when i looked closer it turned out to be my philosopher!!! I took a screenshot but I don't know how to upload it here. Can someone tell me how? --[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 00:14, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
:It might be that deconstructiong walls is an all-dwarf adults-only task, which is rare to see. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 01:04, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
:: AFAIK, Deconstruction is indeed an all-dwarf task. I'm pretty sure I saw a kid doing it. Kids will also work in the fields, so I suspect Philsophers will also harvest. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 01:35, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
:::I've definitely seen children deconstructing walls. They love nothing else more, it seems, even though they take ages and ages to do it. Making a 'playpen' of walls for them to knock down can be a nice way to keep children inside in dangerous times, though excluding adult dwarfs from it can be a problem. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 13:31, 1 December 2008 (EST)

:"Upload file", left side of your screen. But you don't need to show us a screenshot in this case; nobles working is a known phenomenon, outlined at [[labor]]. "Remove construction" was missing from the list there, though, so it's good you brought it up.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:22, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

My Philospher is currently Trading at Depot I'm impressed...--[[User:Loganis|Loganis]] 01:54, 1 December 2008 (EST)
:I've actually found that if I turn off "Only Broker Can Trade" (generally because my broker insists on drinking, sleeping, or breaks rather than actually trading), the Nobles are the people who pick up the job nine times out of ten. Which kind of makes sense, since they don't really do any other work, leaving them free to pick up the suddenly available job. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 08:47, 1 December 2008 (EST)

::Has anyone ever seen children do trading, or just nobles?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 10:00, 1 December 2008 (EST)

My philosopher has the thought, "had to talk to someone annoying," so philosophers might do consoling pacifying work that the mayor also presumably does. [[User:Afu|Afu]] 04:19, 30 January 2009 (EST)

:That was just a conversation, and might have even created a grudge. All idle dwarves have them, hence the large number of dwarves getting lots of skill raises despite sitting around doing nothing, as typically happens in Elitist fortresses, where only the skilled dwarves do any of the actual work. (Note: this is conducive to perpetual homelessness and a depression-spiral at around 100 dwarves, assuming you're not [[Init.txt#FINDER|cheating]], of course.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 06:46, 30 January 2009 (EST)

It appears that the Philosopher can at least change prices of items in your fortress.
[[Image:Proof.JPG]]

:My philosopher is also an adept grower. I turned on "all dwarfs harvest" and so all the kids and nobles are out there picking food. I've had kids with master grower skills.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 11:53, 6 March 2009 (EST)