Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d Talk:Maximizing framerate

2008-03-21T16:43:58Z

Weasello:

===Effect on # of dwarves, framerate calculations===
I'm not sure how important the number of dwarves is on the framerate. I was getting about 12 to 15 with 22 dwarves, and this has fallen to 9 with 97 dwarves. I think it is more bad pathing, like animals being caught behind doors that causes more problems than the number of units themselves. The addition of 80 goblins had an impact of 1 fps as well... although again, they probably weren't having any trouble path finding to no where. --Gotthard 13:53, 3 December 2007 (EST)
:I typically see a substantial drop in framerate when new immigrants come, and afterward the game's never as fast or responsive. However, I also demand a higher framerate (not less than 40, to avoid annoying interface lagging/jerkiness) than many people seem prepared to tolerate, so our findings aren't inconsistent. You just have more load already and so don't notice a given amount of additional usage as much. [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 05:39, 7 December 2007 (EST)
::If this is the case, then I doubt there is a linear relationship associated with the FPS values. The G_FPS might also impact this. Typically, 10-12 more dwarves lowered my FPS by 1 at max, and I have 6 masons making blocks for my castle, and 18 dwarves running around permanently putting them up. I would guess that the FPS drops off fast to begin with, so it takes a lot to go down from 10-9 fps compared to 40-39 fps. --Gotthard 08:35, 7 December 2007 (EST)
:::Yes, this is expected. Framerate changes aren't linear and here's why: Let us imagine that a given computer can process 10,000 game things per second. A framerate of 100 means that the game requires only 100 calculations per update, and therefore can update 100 times/second. A framerate of 1 means the game has to perform 10,000 calculations per update. To drop from 40 to 39 FPS, the game must require ~6 more calculations per update. To drop from 10 to 9 FPS, the game must require ~111 more calculations per update. [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 08:51, 13 December 2007 (EST)
::Wow, I can't stand things if FPS falls under ~80! Though, running a 2.1Ghz Dual Core and 512M 8600GeForce probably has some bearing on it. Personally, I run my G_FPS at only 10, and FPS_CAP at 200. I haven't gotten to economy sized populations yet with these settings (mostly on purpose cause I also keep my POP_CAP to only 10 until I've gotten the majority of the fortress dug out and a good stock of food and bedrooms, etc. The extra dwarves end up just getting in the way any other time I've tried my play-style. With this setup, I usually average around 150 FPS. Also, I've noticed a difference in FPS if I have the map section open, either single or double pane, moreso when there are a large number of creatures on the map. Simply closing (tabbing) the map got me an increase from ~125 to ~140. Should be worth 2-3 frames at the low FPS levels you guys are talking about. I'm also curious if the FPS counter itself has a significant effect on frames... --[[User:n9103|n9103]] 11:40, 17 Dec 2007 (PST)

===Weather and Trees===
Is it just me, or with weather turned trees will not grow back. Most saplings have withered and died. The landscape is littered with them. I'm in a Mirthful area, so it's not alignment. I haven't been able to get any trees since I deforested the entire area, and yes, it has been over three years. I'm playing 33d. [[User:Klada|Klada]] 19:50, 5 December 2007 (EST)
:Well I've been playing map for 6 years now, and I've had weather on the entire time, tons of trees have grown back. I've not deforested the ENTIRE area, but from what I understand trees grow back at a proportional rate to the amount of area there was to grow, so it should be better. I think saplings randomly die, perhaps moreso with traffic on them but... I don't have an explanation. --Gotthard 19:23, 6 December 2007 (EST)
::"Is it just me, or with weather turned trees will not grow back." Turned on or turned off? Logically, if weather were turned off, trees shouldn't grow to maturity. --[[User:n9103|n9103]] 11:29, 17 Dec 2007 (PST)
:::Trees grow back just fine with weather turned off. I don't know why sometimes most or all the saplings die, but it's not turning weather off that causes it. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 00:00, 4 January 2008 (EST)
:Is any part of the area you embarked at evil? If so, are they the areas that the trees could grow in? (i.e. a mirthful mountain next to haunted woods) If you're beyond doubt sure that that's not the case, then going on what else has been investigated, I see one of two things: Complete deforestation *stops* tree growth, including saplings; Or, you've got some kind of bug that hasn't been documented yet.

===Economy===
Can we confirm/disprove the effect of the economy on framerate? --[[User:DDouble|DDouble]] 02:42, 13 December 2007 (EST)
:Not sure what you mean exactly. The economy makes several changes, any of which might potentially impact speed. Can you give more detail on what specifically might potentially be causing a slowdown (or speed boost)? Is there a discussion on the forum that you have in mind? [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 08:51, 13 December 2007 (EST)
::I'm pretty sure he's talking about the init setting and turning it off. The 'potentially' part you mentioned is what he wanted clarification on. Does turning the setting off before the economy activates improve pre-economy performance? There might indeed be people out there that are willing to lose one of the cooler features for a much improved framerate. A good question is does turning that setting off prevent you from ever gaining an economy (when you decide to turn the option back on) should you pass the point where it should have activated? --[[User:n9103|n9103]] 11:27, 17 Dec 2007 (PST)

=== One Way Stairs ===
"Use ...multiple one-way stairways to connect any two spots where lots of dwarves will want to be"

How do you make a one way stair? I tried searching here, and on the forum, but didn't find it. [[User:Calculus|Calculus]]
:I mean to use paired up and down staircases instead of up/down ones. This suggestion is now removed because I'm not sure it actually makes a difference (it's safer for your dwarves, but I don't see a difference in game speed) [[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 14:50, 2 January 2008 (EST)
::How is a single-floor staircase (down+up) any safer than using a multiple-floor staircase (down+down/up+up)?
::Or for that matter, how is it different than making all your staircases down/up (minus bottom level of course)? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:40, 3 January 2008 (EST)
:::If a dwarf falls down a multi-level up/down staircase, he may die or be badly injured.[[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 22:52, 3 January 2008 (EST)
::::What would cause a dwarf to fall down stairs aside from combat?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 01:59, 4 January 2008 (EST)
:::::Haven't a clue. I just know that several people have reported their dwarves getting killed or maimed that way.[[User:Fedor|Fedor]] 15:17, 5 January 2008 (EST)
::::I used to use the up/down staircases for a central mineshaft until I had multiple dwarves become maimed/die when fighting on the stairs. I now use a spiral staircase design instead. I don't think anything BUT combat makes them fall, but if they charge a goblin snatcher and miss, there's no promise they won't end up 15 levels down missing all their limbs. --Gotthard 11:08, 7 January 2008 (EST)
:::::How about using floor hatches every level? -- Digger

=== Weather and windmills ===
To BurnedToast: You seem to be right that turning weather off doesn't stop windmills from working. I wasn't sure where I got that impression, but after looking it up, it was from several instances on IRC where people came in, said "The windmill isn't making power :(", were told to "turn weather on", went "Ah ha!", and never said that it didn't make them start working. (After I while I started suggesting it too since nobody had reported it not working, until recently.) So, hmm. I just switched a fort that had weather to not having it, and yeah, the windmills all still work. So I built a new one - also works. Then I generated a new world with weather off, started a new fort in it, built a windmill, and it produced 20 power. Oh well. --[[User:SL|SL]] 13:24, 9 January 2008 (EST)

=== Multiple CPUs/Cores ===
As far as I have tested, DF uses 3 threads. It seems to put all its efforts in a single one, but even so, the other two still take cpu time, so having a dual-core machine still helps even if the threads are synchronized (and it isn't such a huge difference). I assume one of the threads link the display to the game core while the other runs the input buffer. I'd have to do more testing. [[User:Soulwynd|Soulwynd]] 23:37, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

=== Bulging Histories ===
:Any chance history plays a role in framerates? I have a fairly beefy machine and was regularly getting 100FPS in my first few forts, but after about 15 forts and 30 adventure modes (I'm quite suicidal), I can't get my FPS above 35 even on initial embark and a 3x3 fortress plot. [[User:Weasello|Weasello]] 12:43, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Your first fortress

2008-03-21T14:50:31Z

Weasello:

== Content from [[Getting started]] ==

The goal of this page is to explain in detail, and for newbies, how to:
#Generate a world (possibly from a seed)(probably will link to article(s) on the topic)
#Pick a fortress location
#Name your fortress and starting group
#Buy skills and items, for the biome type picked in #2 (probably will give the newbie build from the [[starting builds]] page)
#Play the first month or two of the game, for the biome type picked in #2
I don't know how to write an article that does this, but I do know that this is what this article should be.<br>
--[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:19, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

I'd like to avoid having an overabundance of tutorial articles again. It sounds to me like all of the above would fit into [[Your first fortress]] just as easily. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:00, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

:Should we go ahead and just #redirect it?--[[User:Draco18s|Draco18s]] 12:07, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

::Done. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 12:14, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

== Wall of text ==
I think the "Beginning the Fortress" section isn't very pleasant to read. The bullet points help a bit, but I think numbered ones (matching the "TOC" above it) would be a bit more helpful. I'd however prefer to split the steps using numbered headlines, then it'd clearly define each step and automatically be indexed at the top. Thoughts? --[[User:TwoD|TwoD]] 13:03, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
:That's beyond me, but anyone who can should feel free to clean it up and make it as readable as possible. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 01:37, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

== Skill choices ==

I know skill choices are largely a matter of preference, but the inclusion of a Bookkeeper, Manager, Expedition Leader, and Broker in the landing party definitely merit a mention, as well as whether or not a beginning player should throw a few skill points at improving his Broker's and Leader's key skills. Being able to talk that first dwarven caravan into throwing some extra sides of meat in could mean the difference in survival for a newer player.--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 19:29, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:I agree with this. When I make a new Caravan, I often make a Leader-type with ONLY leader/trade related skills. Even just having the ability to SEE the values of the items (even if you have them memorized) helps aid in making a good first-year trade session. And the first-year Dwarven caravan doesn't expect a large profit. I've done large deals with them that only netted them a 10-coin profit. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 12:45, 14 November 2007 (EST)

I think good bridging points are the seasons and end of the years; To aid readability and to separate into chunks, I think a listing of 'things to accomplish by winter', 'things to accomplish by spring (your first immingants!)', that sort of thing -- To avoid having a gigantic page, it might be better to split them off into "your first year", "your second year", especially because the gameplay changes signifiantly when you start getting nobles and your construction focus starts to shift from mere survival into making your dwarves happy, trading, and onward to economy and such. If people are interested in taking this approach, I'd certainly help with the writing. [[User:Bhodi|Bhodi]] 13:10, 4 November 2007 (EST)

== Recording a Movie ==

I was thinking that someone could record a movie following the steps given here, as a visual aid. As DF is very structure-based it would help to visualize how the fortress is supposed to look. [[User:Memo|Memo]] 15:13, 4 November 2007 (EST)

== Buying Skills & Items ==

The caravan is by no means guaranteed to bring an anvil the first year. (Out of ten games started and played through first year, I think I've gotten an anvil twice.) You can request one from the liason, though. I'd edit the entry myself, but I'm not certain how to word it without totally changing that whole paragraph.--[[User:Xazak|Xazak]] 15:41, 11 November 2007 (EST)

:I think that Humans always bring an anvil or two, but I may be wrong. [[User:Memo|Memo]] 17:02, 11 November 2007 (EST)
:: You are not correct, Memo. I've had fortresses that have gone anvil-less for 2 years before a Dwarven Caravan finally brought one (brought three, actually). Edit: The first year's caravans (Fall Dwarven, Spring Elven, and Summer Human) are largely randomized. I've seen vastly different products being brought in on all three of those, with roughly similar settlements and trade requests. --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]] 12:18, 14 November 2007 (EST)

== Food and Trading ==

:Is it just me, or is it much easier to teach people how to trade for food than it is to farm/grow/brew? I find one dedicated stonecrafter is more than enough to purchase all the food that can be possibly thrown at you, and will likely even be legendary by the time the second trade caravan comes along. For a "newb strategy" this might be the way to go instead of trying to explain floodgates and channels right off the bat. [[User:Weasello|Weasello]] 10:50, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Well

2008-03-21T14:34:59Z

Weasello: /* 1x1 Well */

Where can these be constructed? only near an aquifer?--[[User:Alc|Alc]] 14:16, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

Open space probably refers to just that - a dug-out space below it that leads to water. Will have to test, though. --[[User:Tracker|Tracker]] 15:54, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

Does it need to be a channel all the way down, on all levels below the well, or can you have normal floor below it all the way down to water? Can you put one well directly above another well, and have them both work (if there's water below)? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 15:56, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
: yes.no.no.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 12:27, 1 March 2008 (EST)

Has it been verified that you need water down there? --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 11:22, 8 November 2007 (EST)
:yes.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 12:27, 1 March 2008 (EST)

Does anyone know if it is okay to have a well like this?<br />
(side view)
<pre>
_W_
| | <-- Empty space between water and well
|~| <-- Water down here
---
</pre>
--[[User:Delton|Delton]] 16:07, 14 November 2007 (EST)

Confirmed that the above is a functional well.
--[[User:Delton|Delton]] 07:52, 19 November 2007 (EST)

==Potential Problem==
As of v0.27.176.38a, when using an artificaly created well (by designating a 'Pond' zone and having dwarves fill it), it is posible that dwarves will take water from the well in order to fill the pond which feeds the well, acomplishing nothing. To correct this, examine the items contained in the well by pressing 't', then forbid the bucket and rope contained in the well. This will stop dwarves from taking water from the well and allow you to fill it. You can then reclaim the bucket and rope to make the well usable again.

Should this be in the article?

[[User:Duo|Duo]] March 11th 2008

== Flooding? ==

Gah! Why do my wells keep flooding? How can I prevent this? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 06:08, 26 November 2007 (EST)

-- Well ... if you did it like I did [http://www.vaevictus.net/images/bucket_full.png (lol)], you lost to backpressure. i filled from a reservoir that was taller than my well floor. (and it was attached to a brook. :) I'm working on using a floodgate and pressure plate to regulate water levels. [[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 11:30, 20 December 2007 (EST)

== Fair Warning ==

Whatever you do, don't let a barracks area overlap any of your wells. Military dwarves can and will fall in if they're sparring next to it. Ah well, I didn't want that full set of bismuth bronze armor anyway. -- [[User:Vanst|Vanst]] 08:39, 26 December 2007 (EST)

== Grates and Buckets ==

Buckets don't pass through grates, in the well construct. That means a well with a grate halfway will become dry. I had 2/7 water above the grate (and 5 levels of 7/7 water under it), but it was not enough. [[User:Wlievens|Wlievens]] 07:24, 23 January 2008 (EST)

== flood? ==

I have a <s>lake</s> murky pool outside(reaching down one more z level). On the same level i want to construct a well inside. can i just build a channel, thus tap the lake on the lower z level and then build a well on top of the end of the channel? or do i need one more level free space? If i can, will the water flood my outpost or will it stop on floor level? would it help if i tapped the lake one more level down? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 17:12, 8 February 2008 (EST)
:So long as the well is at or above the level of the pond you will have no problem. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 23:11, 11 February 2008 (EST)
:: It worked fine. Now however the murky pool is dry, so i built a new one tapping the river. ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 13:53, 22 February 2008 (EST)

== Using Buckets? ==
I'm having a hard time getting my dwarfs to use their new well. I...
* Dug a Channel with water beneath it.
* Designated a drinking zone beside it.
** The dwarfs now drink from the channel.
** Loo{{k|k}}ing at the space they're drinking from says Open Space
* Created Blocks, Bucket, Rope
* {{k|b}}uild we{{k|l}}l over the water beside the drinking designation.

Now what happened was I got a massive flood of messages saying something like "XXX Cancelled Drinking: No Bucket at well"

So I went and built another Bucket, and now I have 2 buckets sitting in my finished goods stockpile, and nobody who's willing to drink from the well. How do I instruct the lazy dwarves to go and get the bucket and use it with the well?

[[User:Zeidrich|Zeidrich]] 15:15, 29 February 2008 (EST)

: Why do you need them to use the well? As far as I know, the only time having a well is useful is when the injured need water. Even then, I strongly suspect that people can just drink from the river. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 16:02, 29 February 2008 (EST)

:: Well, I want them to use a well because I built it! It looks prettier than drinking out of the stream. I'm pretty sure they get bad thoughts when they drink directly out of the stream. In this particular circumstance I was short on brewable supplies and I had a bunch of thirsty dwarves. Regardless of whether or not I should necessarily be using a well, I would like know ''how'' to use it.-- [[User:Zeidrich|Zeidrich]] 18:37, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:::Well, I believe that the well is *'''built'''* with a bucket, since you require one for construction. If it's really not there for whatever reason, then you may want to rebuild the well(and make sure that furniture hauling orders are ON), and if that doesn't fix it, then i think this is a bug and should be reported to the Toady One, along with the save. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 05:22, 1 March 2008 (EST)
::::Yes, the bucket for 'normal' drinking is built into the well. U only need extra buckets to fill a pond or give water to a resting dwarf. Check with the q-menu if the well is even finished.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 12:27, 1 March 2008 (EST)
:::::Nope, not a bug. I figured out what it was. Apparantly my architect was far too busy tilling soil and hauling rocks to go and gather the rope and the bucket and connect them to the well. So while I had all of the materials, and the well looked complete, it was actually waiting for construction. I think I was just confused by the message as my dwarves were trying to drink from it before it was ready. [[User:Zeidrich|Zeidrich]] 11:54, 3 March 2008 (EST)

== Another Fair Warning ==
Dwarves don't even need to spar to fall into wells, they will generally not avoid walking over a well tile. This will result in the warning "X cancels...dangerous terrain" followed by dropping in anyway. The last bloody fool who dropped in seems to have been gobbling away at his food while walking, down the shaft among his gear i found 1 dwarven sugar roast. I mean, i know my sugar roast is delicious, but can you please sit down first like any goodmannered dwarf? How will I ever clean up that bloody mess you left in our water supply? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:24, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

== 1x1 Well ==
Does anyone have a good plan for digging a deep, unconnected 1x1 well? I'm currently thinking about trying something like this design, side view:
<pre>
_W_
| | <-- Empty space between water and well
| | <-- Empty space between water and well
| | <-- Empty space between water and well
| | <-- Opening room
|~~~| <-- Water down here
---
</pre>

It would be built like below, with a level pulled to knockout the support. Would the center collapse leaving a nice shaft?
<pre>
_ _
|r| <-- Ramp down
|r| <-- Ramp down
|r| <-- Ramp down
| X | <-- stairwelldown
| S | <-- Support. Water will be down here, but starts out dry?
---
</pre>
[[User:Tulthix|Tulthix]] 12:49, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

:It won't fall down as the ramps still have support from the adjacent stone/walls. I've been trying to figure out how to make a 1x1 shaft too but haven't had much luck. When getting the dwarves to build ramps on top of each other they do build a shaft downwards but after a certain depth the pathfinding seems to get confused and they stop. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 02:36, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

:I was able to accomplish this by digging out a side-wall and re-building the wall after deconstructing a staircase down the shaft one tile at a time. If you want it to look pretty the 1x1 shaft going down should have nice stone smoothing on as well (and it covers up the "filled in wall" seam. Alternate methods: sacrificial dwarf can pull it off (he will rot away at the bottom of your water tank) and a utilitarian "escape hatch" out the bottom of the tank. I like putting in an escape hatch at the bottom, connected to a lever, with a grate and outflow underneath so I can retrieve that adamantium armor that falls down there. (when I don't build in an escape stairway anyway). [[User:Weasello|Weasello]] 10:34, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Well

2008-03-21T14:34:24Z

Weasello: /* 1x1 Well */

40d Talk:Well

2008-03-21T14:32:26Z

Weasello: /* 1x1 Well */