Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

v0.31:Captured creatures

2011-01-31T07:19:03Z

Wisq: /* Holding */

{{Quality|Fine|08:55, 23 July 2010 (UTC)}}
{{av}}

You can capture creatures in a variety of ways, including {{L|animal trap}}s for {{L|vermin}}, {{L|Traps#Cage_Trap|cage traps}} for wild {{L|animal}}s and hostiles (like goblins), forcibly caging tame animals (see below), and you can also buy caged animals from traders. Caged animals do not require food or nourishment, but this is only because animals do not require food. Caged animals have lifetimes, though, so they will die eventually. Caged dwarves (except those in {{L|jail}}) will quickly starve, for they are never fed. The only case when a caged creature is fed is during its taming.

Below is a collection of some things you can do with creatures in {{L|cage}}s or other holding devices.

===Training and taming===
A dwarf with the {{L|animal trainer|animal training}} labor enabled can tame wild animals (including {{L|vermin}}) at a {{L|kennel}}. A tame animal has the tag '''(Tame)''' after its name and is safe to be released into the fortress. They will not attack your dwarves, and do not set off your traps.

Beware, creatures that have killed dwarves (or other friendly creatures {{verify}}) before being tamed even off the map are "un-tamable". Despite appearing tame, such a creature will go dwarf-killing as soon as it is released.

Elven merchants often sell caged animals, even some that can't normally be trained. Often cages that appear empty on the trading screen (ie, -oaken cage-) will have tame rats, squirrels or other small animals in them. Tamed animals can act as a guard, attacking hostile creatures.

Dragons and other {{L|megabeast}}s may also be tamed, but this requires a {{L|Dungeon master}} which is currently buggy (0.31.10). Specifically, any vermin or creature with the [PET_EXOTIC] flag requires a dungeon master.

Tamed vermin and animals may be adopted as {{L|pet}}s by the dwarves, and animals may also be {{L|Butchery|slaughter}}ed for food. {{L|Cage}}s and {{L|restraint}}s are also useful in {{L|meat_industry|animal husbandry}}.

===Holding===
You can restrain creatures by assigning them to {{L|restraint}}s, putting them in cages, or throwing them in {{L|Activity zone#Pit/Pond|pits or ponds}}. This can reduce {{L|lag}}, and may prevent adoption as pets (so they remain slaughterable without tantruming owners). This will ''not'' work with {{L|cat}}s, who adopt their masters, not the other way around, and despite any physical barriers

* '''Cages''': An indefinite number of animals may be locked into one single cage. If you wish to fit your own tame animals into cages, you can do this by building a cage, and assigning some animals to it via the Building properties window (accessible by {{k|q}}). "Large animal caging" jobs will then be created, and dwarves will lock the hapless animals into the cage. Any offspring they give birth to is also born in the cage (But is not ''assigned'' to the cage, so your dwarves will free it if you don't stop them.). Animals do not breed in cages, but an already pregnant animal will give birth while in a cage.

:Caveat — Do not reassign any animal that is not tame (for example, one captured via a {{L|Traps#Cage trap|cage trap}}). If you do, the dwarf moving the animal may open the cage and then flee due to the proximity of the wild animal.

::By stationing military dwarves nearby, this can be used as an easy way to release and kill caged creature. This works especially well if the military dwarves already have an order to kill the creature before you attempt to transfer it. (Some creatures may actually get transferred successfully, however.)

* '''Chains/ropes''': Installed chains ({{k|b}}-{{k|v}}) and assign animals to them {{k|q}}. They'll be able to move one tile in any direction (including up/down/diagonal).

* '''Pits/ponds''': You can designate an area as pit or pond by creating an {{L|Activity zone#Pit/Pond|activity zone}}, designating it as pit/pond and assigning animals to it by setting its properties by pressing {{k|P}}. Beware that land animals generally do not like to remain in a dark pit instead of your magnificent fortress, so they'll break free at the earliest opportunity.

===Other uses===

* '''{{L|Zoo}}''' areas may be defined from a built cage via the {{k|q}} menu for the enjoyment of your dwarves. Be aware that dwarves will receive happy or unhappy thoughts from seeing an animal in a zoo based on their preferences. Owning the cage containing a loved animal is even better.

* '''Confiscating prisoner items''': You can strip a captured critter of its equipment. First, use {{k|d}}-{{k|b}}-{{k|c}} and {{k|d}}-{{k|b}}-{{k|d}}to mark the entire stockpile of cages (and ''every item in the cages'') for reclaiming and then for dumping, then use {{k|k}} (for unbuilt cages) or {{k|t}} (for built cages) to view and undump the cage itself. After you ordered the items dumped, dwarves will come and strip the items from your captives. If they do not, double-check that you have a dumping activity zone and that you've reclaimed ({{k|d}}-{{k|b}}-{{k|c}}) - all the equipment a hostile carries is {{k|f}}orbidden by default. You can also dump caged prisoner items through the {{l|stocks}} menu.

* '''Usage as an execution device''': Instead of executing the trapped creature, one could execute a noble by placing a caged megabeast in its quarters and then releasing the beast. Remember to also install a cage trap to recapture the beast afterward.

* '''Silk farming''': If you are the lucky owner of a tamed {{L|giant cave spider}}, you can release disarmed enemies in a room with it, causing it to shoot significant quantities of {{L|silk}} which can then be woven into expensive cloth. Creative arrangements of doors, chains, and fortifications can allow a setup which generates a near-constant stream of silk using a single creature as bait.

{{Category|Creatures}}

v0.31:Trap design

2011-01-31T07:13:51Z

Wisq: /* Cage trap */

{{quality|Masterwork|14:49, 24 January 2011 (UTC)}}{{av}}

:''This page is one of several inter-related articles on the broader topic of defending your fortress and your dwarves. '''Trap design''' focuses on the theory and design of complex traps, mechanical systems and other automation for defending your fortress, and also on unusual uses of simple mechanic's {{l|trap}}s. For a general overview of the threats that will challenge your fortress and things to consider when preparing a standard defense, see the '''{{l|defense guide}}'''. For tips on laying out your architecture to protect your military, see '''{{l|security design}}'''. For specific advice on how to get your soldiers prepared for any threat, see '''{{l|military design}}'''. See '''{{l|trapper}}''' for catching vermin-sized creatures in animal traps.

* For suggestions on disposing of nobles and other unwanted residents, see {{l|unfortunate accident|unfortunate accident}}.
* For a basic overview of how the different machine parts work and work together, see {{l|machinery|machinery}}.

:::::'''''Editors & Contributors''' - Please see the discussion page before posting.''

==Introduction==
Simple one-tile {{l|trap|trap}}s* are just that - they exist only on their own tile, trigger themselves when a target walks onto that one tile, and affect only that one tile. Complex traps and automation rely on linking {{l|door|door}}s, {{l|hatch cover|hatch}}es, {{l|floodgate|floodgate}}s, {{l|bridge|bridge}}s and mechanic's traps to {{l|lever|lever}}s or {{l|pressure plate|pressure plate}}s, along with {{l|machinery|machinery}} to provide the power to run some of the more diabolical designs. When the trigger is activated, it sends a {{l|lever|signal}} to the linked device. That signal is not always as simple as "do it now", but it's specifically either to "open" or to "close". By manipulating what does what and when, and what follows from that, impressive results can be achieved.

:''(* specifically, the {{l|Trap#Stone-fall_Trap|stone-fall trap}}, {{l|Trap#Weapon_Trap|weapon trap}}, and {{l|Trap#Cage_Trap|cage trap}}.)''

* To fully understand how these component objects work individually (before combining them into diabolical and complex combinations), see those main articles.

==Basic traps==
These are the simple {{l|trap|trap}}s that are placed by a mechanic. They require one {{l|mechanism|mechanism}} but do not require levers or triggers. They can be a quick, easy and brutally effective "first defense" for a fledgling fortress, but they can also be combined into key parts of more complex set ups. For tips on using these basic traps effectively, see the Trap Strategies section.

===Stone fall trap===
:This is the easiest trap to build, so you can easily build them in large numbers. Building lots of them is an easy way to earn experience for your {{l|mechanic|mechanic}}, and add to the depth of your fort's defenses at the same time. Surrounding intersections and stairways is a good way of handling threats that make it inside the fortress, including berserk dwarves.

===Weapon trap===
:The gold standard of lethal traps. This is the only simple trap that works repeatedly without reloading. They do get jammed, however. View the trap with the '''items in room''' {{key|t}} mode, and if there's a corpse inside the trap, it's jammed. None of the weapons on a jammed trap will function. It may be wiser to have several weapon traps with fewer weapons, rather than a smaller number of ten-weapon traps.

:Using {{l|crossbow|crossbow}}s or other projectile weapons in weapon traps avoids the problem of jamming, but they must be kept loaded with {{l|ammo|ammo}}. Mechanics will load them with any ammo that is not forbidden. They will load each until each type of weapon has ten rounds of ammo. Hammers seem to jam less than swords or axes, and spears seem to jam the most. Your dwarves will attempt to unjam traps unless otherwise forbidden.

===Cage trap===
:A very powerful type of trap. Maybe even too powerful - currently, even a wooden or glass {{l|cage|cage}} can hold indefinitely any creature short of a [[titan]], even trolls and megabeasts. A cage trap never fails, although creatures with the {{L|creature token|[TRAP_AVOID]}} tag cannot be captured unless knocked unconscious or [[Giant cave spider|webbed]] first. Use cage traps as your outermost traps to catch the occasional wandering animal, angry wounded {{l|elephant|elephant}} or {{l|unicorn|unicorn}}, or even {{l|zombie|zombie}}s. Caged animals and enemies will be safely brought to any animal stockpiles you have, but may escape later if you are not careful. For more information, see {{l|captured creatures}}.

==Linked traps==
These traps require a trigger such as a {{l|pressure plate|pressure plate}} or {{l|lever|lever}}. They will require at least three {{l|mechanisms|mechanisms}}, one for the trigger and two to create the link. The trigger can be located any distance from the trap, typically close for a pressure plate or far away for a lever.

For a system that repeatedly activates automatically and regularly regardless of enemies, see {{l|Repeater}}.

===Menacing spikes===
Menacing {{l|trap component|spike}}s or upright spears appear on the basic mechanic's {{k|T}}rap menu, but must be activated remotely to pop out of the ground and impale anyone standing on that tile. Vast forests of these can make any area a killing field.

While upright spike defense systems never jam, they also do not discriminate. When activated, they will inflict piercing damage on whatever is standing on the tile, whether it be friend or foe.

==Trap strategies==
These are some basic tricks that can be used with most any trap design, basic or complex.

===Bait animals===
Enemies will hunt down and kill friendly tame animals wandering outside if they have nothing better to do. Put an expendable animal on a {{l|restraint}} in some random spot outside, build a few columns around it to reduce the chance of them shooting it, and trap that area to hell and back. Also known as the "Tar Baby" strategy.

Note that this is a horrible method of getting rid of cats, as they will often adopt a dwarf who will then attempt to free the cat. This may lead to the unfortunate situation of Urist McCatlover getting skewered by an ambush party while on his way to free Mr. Baitykins.

===Trapping efficiently part 1===
As the converse of building many traps everywhere, consider instead herding your enemies into a few traps. A cross-hair pattern of walls or impassable channels with an array of traps in the middle gap will increase the usage of each individual trap. This is particularly useful when capturing wildlife.

+++++║+++++
+++++║+++++
+++^^║^^+++
+++^^║^^+++
═════^═════
+++^^║^^+++
+++^^║^^+++
+++++║+++++
+++++║+++++

===Trapping efficiently part 2 ===

If the path where you will place your traps has bends, expect the enemy to take the most direct path - it's not guaranteed, but they will tend to hug the inside of a corner, and rarely detour to a dead-end (represented by "x").

╔═════════
║ ║xx ??
║ ║x ???
║???║ .???? ? = unpredictable path
║???║ .╔═════
║ ??║ . ║ . = ''most likely'' path
║ .║g ║ g = invader
║x . x║
║xx xx║ x = ''unlikely'' detour
╚═══════╝

Once in a straight hall, anything is possible (represented by "?"), but placing your best (or first) traps on the inside path near "inside" corners (and de-emphasizing outside "dead-end" corners) is the best bet. If two invaders are side-by-side, they will wander, and random actions are always possible, but if you had to guess, this is the way to do it.

==Crushing weight traps==

===Dropping the Hammer===
Lowering {{l|drawbridge|drawbridge}}s on invaders will {{l|dwarven atom smasher|crush}} them into nothingness. Known as the 'Dwarven Atom Smasher', bridges will destroy most things with some notable exceptions including {{l|wagon}}s and {{l|elephant}}s, who will not only survive unscathed but also destroy the bridge.

Try replacing the side wall of a part of your main entrance with a drawbridge, big enough so it spans the whole hallway. To prevent enemies with the {{l|Creature token|[BUILDINGDESTROYER]}} tag from wrecking it, you can dig a {{l|channel}} in front of it for protection while it's raised. Link the drawbridge to a {{l|lever|trigger}}, and whenever you feel like it activate the trap. This can be done with minimal effort and used to smash {{l|invader}}s, unwanted {{l|immigrants}}, bothersome {{l|nobles}}, or simply to destroy your garbage.

===Intentional cave-in===
{{l|Support|Support}}s can be linked to triggers. Building a section of floor that is deliberately held up only by a trapped support allows for an intentional {{l|cave-in|cave-in}}.
* Invaders dropped into a pit can be wounded or killed.
* Dropping a floor or wall directly onto any creature will ''instantly'' kill it, regardless of its size.
* The cave-in will also knock nearby invaders unconscious. This will stun them, and also make them susceptible to simple traps (even if normally immune).
* Cave-ins will ''not'' reveal invisible invaders, such as {{l|ambush|ambush}}ers unless it kills them outright, in which case their bodies become visible.

The biggest drawback of this sort of trap is the "reload" process, which can be relatively time consuming. Have a drawbridge that can seal off the work area so your {{l|mechanic|mechanic}}s and {{l|mason|mason}}s can reconstruct the setup in peace.

==Water traps==
These traps drown, freeze, boil, or wash targets away. Errors in execution can be quite <s>{{l|flood|harmful}} to your fortress</s> {{l|fun}}, so use with caution.

===Drown and burn===

A flooding room trap combined with an unextinguishable burning Lignite bin. The water will evaporate on the bin's tile, causing the water from the surrounding tiles to move to it, which then get evaporated as well. The water will also push the invaders onto the fire, causing them to burn to death... in a flooding chamber.

NOTE: Traps involving large quantities of water turning into steam are as effective at killing your {{l|framerate}} as they are {{l|goblin|goblins}}. Use with caution, and have the cut-off lever at the ready.

===Drowning hall===

'''Level 0'''

░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░ <tt>░</tt> - Wall
->++▼··················▼++-> <tt>-></tt> - Direction of traffic
->++▼··················▼++-> <tt>▼</tt> - Down-Ramps (as visible from one level above = see {{l|ramp|ramp}})
->++▼··················▼++-> <tt>+</tt> - Floor
░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░ <tt>·</tt> - Open space

'''Level -1'''
░░░░░░XX░░░░░░░░XX░░░░░░ <tt>X </tt> - Inflow
░░▲++▼··▼++++++▼··▼++▲░░
░░▲++▼··▼++++++▼··▼++▲░░ <tt>▲</tt> - Up-Ramps
░░▲++▼··▼++++++▼··▼++▲░░
░░░░░░XX░░░░░░░░XX░░░░░░ <tt>▼</tt> - Down-Ramps

'''Level -2'''
░░░░░░xx░░░░░░░░xx░░░░░░ <tt>x</tt> - Outflow
░░░░░▲++▲░░░░░░▲++▲░░░░░
░░░░░▲++▲░░░░░░▲++▲░░░░░
░░░░░▲++▲░░░░░░▲++▲░░░░░
░░░░░░xx░░░░░░░░xx░░░░░░

If enemies are in the middle of Level -1, open the inflow, then the water will first trap, and then drown them. If the pit is full, close the in- and open the outflow. You can automate this by using {{l|pressure plate|pressure plate}}s, or if you want to have more fun, replace the water with {{l|magma|magma}} (which would require pressure plates and floodgates to be {{l|magma-safe|magma-safe}}).

===Selective smiting tower===

This is a trap that can be built in discrete units. Each unit requires a lot of labor and protects only a small area, though in a dramatic manner. A wall of these around the map sharing a single massive water reservoir makes a very effective {{l|siege}} defense, as each tower component can be linked to a {{l|lever}} and used to wipe out a single invading squad at a time. Note: This may count as a {{l|stupid dwarf trick}}.

While a {{l|pressure plate}} in the center of this trap can trigger it and drown hidden ambushers, such an arrangement is subject to double-activation and failure. A pressure plate that only triggers once will break and the system will be incapable of self-reloading. A lever is highly recommended.

Using a cross-hair pattern of walls, invaders are herded through the trap. Inside the fortress, Urist McLeverpuller does his job. {{l|Floodgate}}s on the ground close, {{l|hatch}}es on the ceiling open, and drowning ensues. When all enemies are dead, the lever is pulled again. The hatches close and the floodgates open, allowing a rush of water and bodies to spill out.

Schematics shown are for a stand-alone tower, though the upper level can be linked with many similar towers for a grid-like defensive system.

'''Level 0'''

░░X░░X░X░░X░░ <tt>░</tt> - Wall
░+++++░+++++░ <tt>+</tt> - Floor
X+++++░+++++X <tt>X</tt> - Floodgate
░+++++░+++++░ <tt>H</tt> - Hatch
░+++++░+++++░ <tt>-</tt> - Water Reservior
X+++++░+++++X
░░░░░░+░░░░░░
X+++++░+++++X
░+++++░+++++░
░+++++░+++++░
X+++++░+++++X
░+++++░+++++░
░░X░░X░X░░X░░

'''Level 1'''
░░░░░░░░░░░░░
░-----------░
░-H--H-H--H-░
░-----------░
░-----------░
░-H-------H-░
░-----------░
░-H-------H-░
░-----------░
░-----------░
░-H--H-H--H-░
░-----------░
░░░░░░░░░░░░░

===Degrinchinator===

Water open to the sky in freezing biomes will freeze instantly, completely destroying anything caught in it. By digging a channel entrance to your fort and selectively allowing it to flood as invaders pass through, you can commit genocide with appalling efficiency. The only disadvantage to this trap is its size: because water freezes so quickly, each entry channel must have a source of non-freezing water right next to it.

Observe: http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-231-degrinchinator

===Semi-automatic Orcsicle maker===
Similar to the aforementioned Degrinchinator design but widened to permit the freezing of entire caravans. This model also boasts a handy mechanical reset feature.

Observe: http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1675-semi-automaticorcsiclemaker

[[User:Vattic/Orcsicle_maker_Explained|In depth design, pictures and caveats for this trap.]]

=== Flusher ===

Have a water reservoir to one side of the path the intruders should take, and a deep chasm at the other side. When invaders are on the path, just pull a lever to flush them out.

A compact version of this can be set up with a reservoir tower and a path circling it:

'''Level 0'''

····························· <tt>░</tt> - Wall
->++++++++++++++++++++++++++· <tt>-></tt> - Direction of traffic
->++++++++++++++++++++++++++· <tt>▼</tt> - Down-Ramps (as visible from one level above = see {{l|ramp|ramp}})
->++++++++++++++++++++++++++· <tt>+</tt> - Floor
░XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX░+++· <tt>·</tt> - Open space
░<nowiki>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</nowiki>X+++· <tt>X</tt> - Floodgate OR retracting bridge
░<nowiki>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</nowiki>X+++· <tt>~</tt> - Water
░<nowiki>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</nowiki>X+++·
░<nowiki>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</nowiki>X+++·
░XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX░+++·
<-++++++++++++++++++++++++++·
<-++++++++++++++++++++++++++·
<-++++++++++++++++++++++++++·
·····························

Be sure that the reservoir can hold enough water to flush everything out (3 levels should be enough), that it can be automatically or easily refilled quickly, and be advised that flushing your own dwarves can be much [[fun]]. Adjust the height of the chasm depending on how much damage you want to cause to intruders or to [[Unfortunate_accident|innocent bystanders]] (7 levels start to do some serious damage).

Once flushed, the victims will try a way out (to re-invade the fortress, or to flee). Make sure there are some maintenance-free traps in their way. If you plan to collect goblinite afterwards, have a way to drain the bottom of the trap dry.

==Magma and fire traps==
These traps incinerate targets, or possibly encase them in obsidian. Magma does not play favorites - read up (again) on {{l|magma|magma}}, and use with ''extreme'' caution. Fire traps are included in this category because magma is often the best method of starting a fire.

===Sealed fate===

Create an airlock using two bridges, two doors or whatever you like best. Make it a medium sized chamber, perhaps 10x10 or so. Channel out the floors around the rim, and rig up a system to pump magma into the room, or drop it from the roof. Enemies will quickly be destroyed, and with the magma in the channels, you can pump it out for future use or just leave it. The idea here is a re-useable magma trap; you can use this with a pressure plate, too. It also leaves behind any magma-proof items the invaders might have been carrying.

Variation: By placing magma-safe hatches on the ceiling and quickly activating and deactivating the trap, you can limit the use of magma. It doesn't take a lot of magma to set a goblin on fire: only 1/7 deep will do it, and using less magma means it will dry on its own. It does take a while for an enemy to burn to death, but what's better than spending the whole summer watching a room full of smoke and dying goblins?

===Dwarven incinerator===

Certain minerals such as {{L|lignite}} and {{L|graphite}} have an ignition point but no melting point, meaning that once they are set on {{L|fire}} they will never stop burning. Any item made out of these materials has this property, which can be used to design horrifying fiery death traps.

Consider a hallway filled with lignite {{L|floor grate}}s, which can be built directly on the floor and do not impede the passage of enemies. Pouring {{L|magma}} on any one of these grates will set it alight, and the fire will spread to all connected grates. The end result is a lot of constant smoke and a hallway that kills anything that passes through it. Consider {{L|traffic|restricting access}} to your dwarves or building this in a pit with a retractable bridge over top: the mere fact that a location is on fire will not stop them from walking through it. On the plus side, {{L|goblin}}s are just as stupid.

==Misc trap designs==
By clever and creative use of various elements, it is possible to create impressive systems that fill a variety of functions.

===Casual impalement===

One method of creating a zone of constant slaughter is to link a pressure plate in your main dining hall or main hallway to a patch of menacing spikes or spears. As your dwarves/pets mill around conversing/mating, they will constantly trigger the spike system without regard to the consequences.

Variation: Drop goblins into a holding pit with various spike traps linked to your pressure plate artfully placed around the chamber. Watch as every dining hall {{l|party}} begins to be measured in goblin blood.

===Chasm trap===
The easiest chasm trap is just a retractable bridge, very high up or over a very deep hole; instead of flinging invaders when raised, it just drops them.

A more complicated collapsing spiral trap can take out ten goblins at a time. When finished, it looks like this:

+++
..........+++
.++++++++#+++
.+╔══════. # = retractable bridge
.+║++++++.
.+║+╔══╗+. + = floor
.+║+║A+║+.
.+║+╚═+║+. . = open space
.+║++^+║+.
.+╚════╝+. ^ = pressure plate
.++++++++.
.......... A = bait animal

The goblins are lured in by a {{l|restraint|restrain}}ed bait animal, and can't shoot it due to the surrounding walls. Just before they reach the bait, they trigger a pressure plate that retracts the bridge and collapses the support holding up the whole spiral. Goblins, bait animal, walls and all plummet into the chasm.

When building, you will need to {{l|construction|build}} a span of floor underneath, for the support, as bridges do not support constructions (''which is also why you want a bridge as the access, so it will not hold up the trap*)''. You will also need to have a floor tile between your floor and solid ground or wall while constructing, as the bridge alone will not work as a base, but you can remove it once the support is in place.

Because the outcome of this fairly complex trap can be easily obtained by just using a retractable bridge, it qualifies as a {{l|stupid dwarf trick}}.

===Land mines===
In any suitable open area which hasn't been dug out underneath, build a support and an adjacent multi-use pressure plate set to trigger on creatures (but not citizens), link them together, then build floor tiles above the support and pressure plate. When an enemy steps on the pressure plate, the game will pause and recenter the view with the announcement "''A section of the cavern has collapsed!''", at which point the enemy will be crushed and its companions will be stunned or knocked unconscious by the cloud of dust (though not necessarily revealed, in the case of an {{l|ambush|ambush}}).

===Pitfall trap===
A long retracting bridge in your entrance tunnel, with the pressure plate right in front of the fortress doors. The expression on the face of the point-goblin who reaches them only to watch his comrades plunge to whatever gruesome fate you have prepared for them will be a mental picture to cherish.

You may also consider linking these bridges to levers for more control, just in case a goblin thief triggers the pressure plate while a caravan is on the bridge.

===Door number one===
If you're having trouble dealing with building destroyers that don't set off traps, consider the following design, as seen from the side:

bridge____
MAGMA+^______________________/

Put the magma behind a door (probably with an open floodgate, so you can re-use the trap). In front of the door, place a pressure plate set to go off on magma of 0 to 0. Link the pressure plate to a retracting bridge that covers the exit ramp to the area. Although you can't get the creature to set off traps, as soon as it breaks the door, magma will spill over the pressure plate, locking the creature in the hallway that is rapidly filling with magma. You could combine this with a simple levered hatch for drainage, but it's recommended you combine it instead with a bridged reservoir above for an obsidian trap, as magma kills too slowly to allow you to reuse the trap on the next trapavoid building destroyer.

=== Goblin Grinder ===
Designed by forum member Fenwah in this thread: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62798.0

This is an extremely effective and nearly maintenance-free way of defending against invading enemies. The simplest design is a straight corridor with a {{L|hatch}} on either end, triggered by a {{L|pressure plate}} immediately before it. A channel is carved under the hatches and the ramp removed. The corridor is then filled with traps.

======================
¢^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^¢
======================

The ends of the corridor are left open, allowing invaders to rush down the corridor, thinking it is an easy entrance into your fort. When they step on the pressure plate at the end, the hatch raises, exposing the uncrossable channel and blocking the exit. The invader's pathfinding decides to run back the other way, as that is now the only exit. As he reaches the other end, that hatch opens, causing him to run back and forth inside the corridor, unable to escape. As he runs back and forth, the traps grind himself into a fine mist with no effort on your part. Creatures will occasionally fall into the pit dug underneath the hatches, but these are easily dealt with such as building a room underneath the channels filled with more traps.

By setting the pressure plates to be unaffected by citizens, it's easy for them to walk through and collect the remaining goblinite unharmed once the siege ends.

Its two main disadvantages are being susceptible to both trap-avoiding creatures and {{L|building destroyer|Building Destroyers}}. These can be safeguarded by any of the other many usual ways of defending against this type of creature. It's also possible for a creature to be "stuck" in only the first few tiles of the trap, as they try to escape after taking enough damage, only walking two or three steps into the trap, then immediately turning around and trying to exit, and so only walking past already-triggered traps. Again, you can get rid of these with your military with no problem.

Some usage ideas from the thread:

* Without traps and placing only one pressure plate/hatch combination at the end leading into your fort, it makes a very simple dwarf-only one-way door into your fort. Non dwarves that attempt to enter will be blocked and turn around and take the exit. Alternately a good way of keeping creatures inside an area while allowing dwarf passage.
* With some additional work (details in the thread), it can be built as a repeater system, with a pressure plate inside hooked up to some other device that you want to repeatedly trigger. A pet running back and forth inside attempting to reach its owner or releasing a trapped prisoner and tempting them with freedom in exchange for running back and forth will repeatedly hit the pressure plate inside.
* Similarly, place a pressure plate inside that will link to some other action such as spike traps outside the entrance, impaling invaders waiting for their turn to enter the grinder as their friends run down the corridor.
* Don't fill with traps; instead, carve fortifications into the walls and use the trapped invaders as target practice and training for your archers.
* Don't fill with traps; instead fill with magma at your convenience.
* Fill with very weak weapon traps that will only maim the prisoner. Put an {{L|dwarven atom smasher|atom smasher}} near the other end that will be triggered as he tries to crawl towards freedom.
* With some effort and design, it could possibly be used as a component in building dwarven logic gates.

{{Military v0.31}}

v0.31:Known bugs and issues

2011-01-24T05:52:19Z

Wisq: /* Military */ Add ammo bug.

{{av}}
'''PLEASE SUBMIT BUGS TO THE OFFICIAL BUG TRACKER - THEY WON'T GET FIXED IF THEY ARE ONLY LISTED HERE.''' 
'''[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/ Dwarf Fortress Bug Tracker]'''

'''Please link to the mantis tracker issue as well as the forum post if possible.'''

'''This page recently underwent a major cleanup edit. See the talk page for more info.'''

:As the version is new, and we're still discovering bugs, a lot of unverifiable information is going to get added to this thread. It is recommended that new entries be added with "'''(confirmation needed)'''", and that others can discuss and document each bug on the discussion page. Following confirmation of a bug with a specific description of what's occurring, the parenthetical can be removed.

:Please also read the 'Not Actually Bugs' section before adding bug reports!

==Not Actually Bugs==
*When choosing material for a squad item, there are hundreds of "forgotten beast leather" to choose from.
:This is because there are hundreds of different forgotten beasts.

*Making adamantine items sometimes results in "Urist McArmorer, Armorer cancels Forge adamantine cloak: Needs 10000 adamantine cloth." Likewise making pearlash can yield "...cancels Make pearlash. Needs 150 pearlash."
:Cloth and thread can be consumed "in pieces" now, for medical purposes. The game is reporting the new underlying micro-cloth value instead of the number of whole sheets. Likewise, one stack of metal bars is actually "150" units in the raws.

*Animals are listed twice on the embark screen.
:They're listed twice because they separately list males and females.

*Weird coloured letter in top left corner
:"''' C '''" means new combat report
:"''' H '''" means new hunting message
:"''' S '''" means new sparring message
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=52514.0 Forum Link]

*No option for magma in the finder
:[[Magma]] is guaranteed everywhere now.

*Unable to add items or skill points on the embarking screen.
:Check your keybindings! By default the keys to add and remove items and skills are + and - on the numpad.

*{{L|Wrestling}} will take much longer than combat using any kind of weapon (unlike in 40d.) One can set init/announcements.txt to show wrestling chokeholds in fort mode.

*When iron men and Bronze Colossuses die, the statues that make up their corpses adopt images of creatures (I.e: Statue of a dwarf 1) and events. The molten metal falling from them will make statues out of any corpses below where they died.

*All fish are mentioned twice.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123220#msg1123220 Forum Link]
:Not a bug. Each creature has a male and a female caste, and each caste shows up on embark.

*Nobles demands cabinets in their room but cabinets cant be assigned to any dwarf
:Placing a cabinet into any other room the noble has already been assigned is counted towards the cabinets he has demanded. Same goes for armor stands, weapon racks and chests.

== Embarking ==

*You can embark with some rather unrealistic prepared foods (such as fly brains, which in real life go at about 900 thousand brains to the pound). These unrealistic foods have also been seen in trading. This may be related to further issues involving vermin's organs. (Each 'Unit' of Food is representative of enough food to feed a dwarf for just over a month.)

*You may get a "Cavern Collapse" announcement as soon as you arrive. (Perhaps many times, if you have a volcano in your ocean...)
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=51 Bug Tracker]

== Sites ==

*Magma pipes in volcanoes extend to the top of the map, past the mountain itself.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=52412.0 Forum Link]

*Magma tubes remain the same shape and size the whole way down and may be square.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=52412.0 Forum Link]

*There are currently very few or even no fish. This includes brooks, rivers, oceans, ponds, lakes (underground and otherwise). You may get a few turtles sometimes.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=52217.0 Forum Link]
:[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2015 Bug Tracker]

== Buildings and Zones ==

*Can't farm on dry soil underground.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51951.msg1123336#msg1123336 Forum Link]
:Also, when you have selected Smooth Stone for a farm plot area, the dwarves will clean away the mud right from under the farm plots, rendering them useless until re-irrigated and rebuilt.

*Construction and/or deconstruction can occasionally force some dwarves to idle.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123250#msg1123250 Forum Link]

*<s>When linking buildings to levers/pressure plates, the view may center on a different building than the one that is currently selected. (However, the view switches to the correct building after it is selected)</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1915 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' in .31.13.

*Setting workshop profiles according to minimum and maximum skill levels does not work, typically resulting in no one being able to use the workshop. Setting a profile for individual dwarves still works.
:[http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61051.0 Forum Link]

* Going to the zones menu and changing the placing type to flow, and then pressing ESC causes a crash.
: Forum link/Bug tracker link requested

* Kiln gives message no task available when there is plaster, ash, buckets, and charcoal available
:[http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63169.msg1457910#msg1457910 forum link]

* Sometimes, building a Smelter inside a burrow will prevent you from queuing up jobs. Use your Manager to queue up jobs instead, or remove the Smelter from the burrow to solve this problem.
: Forum link/Bug tracker link requested

== Combat ==

*Some combat maneuvers have no effect.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123104#msg1123104 Forum Link]

*Attempting to grab a bodypart with a weapon leads to "you grab *** by *** with your *weapon* but nothing is grabbed

*Attempting to "pinch" various body parts shows "you adjust you grip on***" and nothing else.

*Alligators can wear armor
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123104#msg1123104 Forum Link]

*<s>Non-alive creatures (like bronze colossuses, zombies and blizzard men) cannot be destroyed (possibly because they can't bleed to death nor have their brain destroyed). Arena testing has revealed that [[dragonfire]] and [[magma]] can melt bronze colossuses, and falling from very high up may kill some undead creatures.</s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123220#msg1123220 Forum Link] -- '''Fixed''' in .10

*Shield-bashing has no effect with a wooden shield
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123499#msg1123499 Forum Link]

*<s>Ballistae have been nerfed considerably: They now easily glance off normal clothing and are very unlikely to kill anything with armour.</s>
:-- '''Fixed''' in .10

*<s>Animals with teeth do nearly no damage. Don't count on your wardogs to help defend your fortress.</s>
:[http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=55798.0 Workaround]
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=744 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.06}}

== Labors ==

*Hunting Issues
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123228#msg1123228 Forum Link]

*<s>Miners now cancel mining designations when they can't reach them</s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123272#msg1123272 Forum Link] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.03}}

*<s>Metal goblets are sometimes iron, regardless of input</s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123533#msg1123533 Forum Link] --'''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.11}}

*Manager screen doesn't show you materials for traction benches
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123533#msg1123533 Forum Link]

*<s>Workers are too dedicated, dehydrate themselves. This was intended as a helpful feature, as dwarves will try to finish what they are doing before running off to eat. However, many players view it as a bug, because it can cause dwarves that are far from food to begin with to starve to death. Working while hungry or thirsty also causes unhappy thoughts, slower work, and worse quality work.</s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123599#msg1123599 Forum Link]
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=8 Bug Tracker] --'''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.07}}

*<s>Cooking with alcohol is buggy</s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123702#msg1123702 Forum Link] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.08}}

*<s>When crafting shell crafts, craftsdwarves never actually produce a shell craft, but instead sit forever with the same shell, with their skills increasing.</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=206 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.11}}

*<s>Dwarves take orders to prepare meals with liquid ingredients like dwarven syrup, wine, and rum, but almost never do it and instead dump the liquid inside the kitchen where it sits cluttering it up and can't be moved... Because it's liquid.</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=138 Bug Tracker]
:Workaround: Using dwarven syrup works just fine for me, but my cook always grabs at least one solid ingredient. Ie, 3 stacks of syrup + one stack of cheese -> finished and edible meal.
:Workaround: The liquid seems to be underneath the kitchen. If you remove the kitchen, some dwarf will come along and clean the spill. Then you can remake the kitchen. I'd recommend simply disabling all cooking of booze.
:-- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.08}}

*<s>Making Rock Short Sword results in a wooden short sword. Especially annoying when making an adamantine sword! (multiple reports)</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=256 Bug Tracker]
:Bug is display only. Stats are based on the rock used. -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.13}}

*Metal items may require fewer bars/wafers than announcements lead you to believe. Since price of items is affected by what went into creating it, this can lead to your adamantine armor being worth far less than it would otherwise.
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=130 Bug Tracker]

*Wood cutter. Tried to upgrade his axe to a steel one, never cut another tree in his life after being forced to dump his copper battle axe. It's like wood cutting had a seperate profile and he was the only one excluded; Sure enough, turned one of my jewelers into wood cutter and it worked fine for him.

*Woodcutters can chop down trees with (wooden) training axes.
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=712 Bug Tracker]

*Immigrants can arrive with only peasant labors enabled, even if they are legendary jewelers. They may sometimes have weird labors enabled. (Stonecrafting master lye makers.)
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=110 Bug Tracker]

*In the {{k|o}}rders menu, there are options (in {{k|W}}orkshops) for auto {{k|b}}utcher, auto {{k|k}}itchen and auto {{k|f}}ishery. All three of these respond to {{k|b}} only, {{k|k}} and {{k|f}} do nothing.
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=68 Bug Tracker]

*<s>Parties never end, sometimes eating up half the labor force.</s>
:Workaround: Undesignate whatever the party is gathered around and it will end.
:-- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.11}}

*<s>Soap-making task is missing from the workshop. Issuing work order through the manager does work. Also with cutting clear and crystal glass.</s>
:The soap making task has two reagents, one of which is a barrel that [CONTAINS_LYE]. The bucket the lye is produced in doesn't count, since it's a bucket, not a barrel. Make sure you have 1) a dwarf with the appropriate hauling task enabled, 2) an empty, usable barrel, and 3) a food stockpile with lye allowed that accepts barreled inventory. Once the lye is in the barrel in the stockpile, check the soap shop again. Don't know why the glass is wonky, though. -[[Special:Contributions/76.102.26.49|76.102.26.49]] 06:27, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
:-- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.09}}

* Making crystal glass is broken.
: [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1498 Bug Tracker]

*<s>Making waterskin in leather works results in a weird item called "flask" (simply that, no mention of leather or whatever) that is never used and stays forever in the workshop. Those don't seem to cause clutter in the workshop either. (A metal variant (Ex. Iron) is now capable of being created at a metal smith, probably causing this bug. Soldiers will carry an Metal Flask).</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=93 Bug Tracker]
: "Flask" can be traded, but isn't automatically moved to stockpiles (It's neither a leather good nor a finished good). They do seem to clutter leatherworkers shops, which must then be destroyed and rebuilt (0.31.06). ~Neftaly Hernandez
: You can also use the View Items in Buildings command {{k|t}} to mark the Flasks for {{k|d}}umping to remove the clutter (0.31.06). ~mk
::More on metal flasks- a friend of mine noticed that when he assigned the job "make iron flask", in would go iron bars and charcoal, and out would come 3 ''gold'' flasks. I did the same thing, except I used coke instead of charcoal, and got 3 gypsum plaster flasks.
:::Making adamantine flasks results in iron flasks.
:-- '''Fixed''', works fine in .16

*Dwarves will occasionally go exceptionally out of their way to get a material while a giant stockpile is sitting beside them (I saw my carpenter travel half the map to get a log while there was a stockpile of 20 logs beside him)
:This will happen if the stockpiled items are already reserved for another task (sometimes happens en masse if you're designating constructions from the material). If this still functions as it did in 40d, dwarves will count the number of tiles to an item 'as the crow flies' rather than checking the actual pathfinding distance, meaning that they regard items above or below their workshop as being very nearby even if the travel distance to reach them is substantial. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 16:20, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:True, but I wasn't using wood for anything, only had 2 carpenters active and the wood was on the same Z plane as my workshops. The usual explanation doesn't fly for the one event I saw.
::Perhaps they had the wood hauling labor enabled and were going to haul it?
I did have a similar event, where I put some food for a militia force to patrol a cavern I uncovered around 40 z-levels down from my legendary dining hall. This resulted in 20+ dwarves venturing through deep dangerous caverns to get food. It was particularly bad when a forgotten beast showed up and massacred 15 of them.

*Canceling a job at the metalsmith can jam the shop if the item was being actively produced at that time (Cancelled job to stop untrained armorer from working on an adamantium plate armor, shop jammed and no other orders ever went through. Ordered deconstruction and then halted deconstruction to clear this up.)

== Moods ==

*Fey moods can request body parts (!!!)
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123573#msg1123573 Forum Link]
:Just means shell or bone are needed (possibly also skin, skull, hoof, tooth, horn)

*Fey moods can request "rock bars." Has been seen to ignore all metal bars, ores, other rock, and rock. (Confirmed)
:I've had the same situation, but my dwarf made do with bars of [[Coke]].
:I think it means rock blocks.

*<s>Fey mood; Dwarf took only dog bones into the craftsdwarf's shop. Produced an iron figurine with an image of waves in dog bone on it.</s>
:Seconded Most if not all figurines made in Fey moods become iron, despite the material used.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=93 Bug #93] and [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=359 bug #359] -- '''Fixed''' {{v|0.31.11}}

*Fey mood;A different but related bug: in versions {{v|0.31.12-.16-.?}} all bone artifacts are stripped of all additional decorations {{bug|2806}}.

*Glass Makers will not use a Magma Glass Furnace to manufacture their artifact. A traditional Glass Furnace is needed. (0.31.04-.17)
:Confirmed to occur in .17. [[Special:Contributions/74.192.98.80|74.192.98.80]]

== Creature Data ==

*<s>Descriptions sometimes take strange objects: "She likes to consume she"</s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123533#msg1123533 Forum Link]
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=582 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.14}}

*Giants and giantesses are mapped to the wrong gender.
:Fixed
*Unicorns give birth to elk fawns.
:Fixed
*Mountain goat fawns are called "Stray Horse foal", although having all the features of a mountain goat.
:This is due to what is assumed to be a copy/paste error in the raws - The raws list "Mountain goat kid" as well as "Horse foal" as possible child names, so it randomly picks one.
:Fixed
*In BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS both eyelids are around the right eye and clean the left eye
:Fixed

== Stockpiles ==
*Problems with categorization. (Stone is considered metal)
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123178#msg1123178 Forum Link]
:[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=157 Bug Tracker]

*Custom stockpile options don't seem to always work
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123474#msg1123474 Forum Link]

*<s>Dead vermin never rot</s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123731#msg1123731 Forum Link]
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=161 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.04}}

*<s>"Take from stockpile" is broken</s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=52126.0 Forum Link]
: Fixed in .10
*There is no category for wood blocks. As such, wood blocks can not be removed from carpentry workshops.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=439 Bug Tracker]

== Military ==
'''{{L|Military|Main Military Page}}'''
'''[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=535 Main Military Equipment Bug Tracker Page]'''
*Dwarves who are assigned to squads seem to be permanently affixed to the soldier life - changing schedules, training options, switching out dwarves, disbanding the squad: nothing works. All they do is eat, drink, sleep, Individual Combat Drill and take Kill orders. (Multiple reports, bug incidence is somewhat inconsistent, deconstructing assigned barracks sometimes helps.)
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=605 Bug Tracker] --'''Acknowledged''' (There may be several duplicate bug reports.)

*<s>The [[arsenal dwarf]] may assign weapons/armor that do not belong to you.</s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1290 Bug Tracker-Goblins] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.06}}
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1526 Bug Tracker-Caravans] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.06}}
:Arsenal dwarf position deleted in .10
*Squads can get into a "permanent civilian life" and will never go into "recruit mode" unless ordered to "station" or "Kill a target", upon canceling this order they will go back to civilian mode. (Although they will perform individual combat drills, but in civilian garbs unless you replaced their equipment) [[User:Kenji 03|Kenji 03]] 11:54, 5 April 2010 (UTC).
:You mean they're supposed to not be civilians while training? Oh... yeah maybe that is a bug, never seen anything else personally - foarl 10:19, 09 April, 2010
::This bug is different - not civilian clothing, but civilian jobs. They'll work in workshops, haul goods, sit idle with "No Job", etc, and never attempt "Individual Combat Training". They do appear to equip assigned gear, though. -- 5:50, 10 June, 2010
:::Yes I can verify this bug. I have version .10 and it is still present-- None of the 4 dwarfs in 1 of my 2 squads will take on 'active' military roles such as macedwarf, marksdwarf, etc... unless they are performing a move or attack order. When a kill order was cancelled (because it was completed) they even dumped their weapons and armor right where they were! At the same time the other squad works fine other than they are all endlessly waiting for a training excercise to begin. I was able to work around this by disbanding the squad, firing the militia captain & recreating them. 17:00EST 19 July, 2010
::::This sounds like it may be a misunderstanding of the military system, because this is actually the default mode for soldiers. If their current task is "no scheduled order", they'll do civilian life + combat drills (without the soldier icon, and possibly without uniforms), but they'll respond to move/attack orders normally. The "inactive" schedule (the '''default''' schedule) has "no scheduled order" throughout. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 05:45, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

*<s>Bolts assigned to a squad that is then disbanded do not free up for use by other squads automatically.</s>
:-- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.11}}

*The default settings are such that your military dwarfs will train, train, train, and possibly starve in the process. [[Thirsty]] and [[Hungry]] tags are guaranteed to appear for any soldier (as they are when a dwarf does anything else in this release) because Dwarves will now try to complete a task before they eat/drink.
:{{L|Military/Guide}} -- '''Fixed''' Training dwarfs eat and drink properly in .16 (stationed military will not eat but are fed by civilians)

*<s>Dwarves will continue to train in barracks even after being removed from a squad. (Because they are completing the task they started before they will move on to something else, changing your alert helps here as well).</s>
:-- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.11}}

*<s>Dwarves will sometimes use many weapons and armor at once. When they have two weapons in the same hand, they seem to be unable to attack with either weapon.</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=648 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.11}}

*<s>Dwarves who die are still listed in the military screen in their squad without any notification of their death. This could lead to a user assigning the best equipment to a squad leader without knowledge of his demise.</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=182 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.11}}

*When [[Reclaim]]ing a lost fortress, soldiers will not use any armour or weapons assigned to them, insisting on training and fighting unarmoured and barehanded. This behaviour seems related to the [[arsenal dwarf]] position - when the fortress population becomes high enough and a dwarf is assigned to the position, soldiers will finally use the equipment they have been assigned. It seems that, on reclaiming, the game acts as if you need to have an arsenal dwarf right from the start, despite there not being any way to assign one.

*<s>Copying an empty order causes an immediate crash.</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=35 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.03}}

*<s>Going to the schedule grid of the inactive group causes an immediate crash. </s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=156 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.03}}

*Military orders are not removed from memory when saving/abandoning a game. When loading another savegame or starting a new fortress these orders will be applied to its squads.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1806 Bug Tracker]
:Workaround: Quit and restart df before loading a savegame or starting a new game.

* Marksdwarves use any assigned bolts for training, regardless of ammunition settings.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2840 Bug Tracker]

== Medicine ==
*<s>Surgeons may endlessly perform surgery on dwarves with no effect.</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=318 Bug Tracker]
:Fixed
*<s>Surgeon provided constant "suturing," each time using up thread. May be related to above problem.</s> -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.07}}

*<s>Any blood smear or pool can spread indefinitely. The most common problem is a pool of blood in a high-traffic area. This causes every dwarf that touches it to get blood on them. Each dwarf will then eventually wash it off, creating another pool of blood by the well, which is likely another high-traffic area. Eventually you end up with the dining room and food stockpiles all coated with several dozen different creatures' blood.</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=296 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.16}} - An init setting to stop blood spreading has been added.

*Dwarves raid caravans for cloth (maybe thread as well) for the hospital zone.
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=66 Bug tracker]

*a bone doctor may get stuck on an 'apply cast' job while getting water. a workaround is to forbid all buckets, unforbid one and wait until it gets filled (e.g. to give to another patient or to fill a pond), forbid the filled bucket to cancel the job, then unforbid it and wait for the apply cast job to start again
:[http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62361.0 forum thread]
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2627 bug tracker]

== Items ==

*<s>Eating a masterwork meal will cause the cook to suffer art defacement.</s> -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.07}}

*<s>Quarry bush leaves might not appear in the kitchen menu, and dwarves might not cook them, rendering them useless except for trading.</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=47 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.02}}

*Obsidian does not appear in the accounting stone menu.
: Workaround: Remove edge tags from raws.
*Reclaim mode, some items recovered become immobile, even when claimed instead of forbidden. Buidling on the area they occupy is impossible, as dwarves won't move the item.
:Workaround: Make water wash the item into a river, or somewhere it will be destroyed.
:Workaround: Channel under the item, dropping it to a lower z-level. This makes the item usable again.
:Workaround: You can use DFhacktools to unbind the work order on stuck items.

*Dwarves will frequently abandon meals they've claimed for eating, resulting in rotting food scattered about the fortress that can't be stored, hauled, or dumped by any dwarf, including the one who claimed it.

* Dwarves may drop a bucket somewhere, and constantly try to use that bucket again, but not be able to find it, resulting in endless announcements.

==Nobles==

*<s>When the mayor dies, all nobles are removed until a new mayor is elected.</s>
:Workaround: To speed up this process, set the population required for mayors to '1' in the raws (raw>objects>entity_default.txt).
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=141 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.05}}

*<s>Former mayors continue to demand accomodations and make mandates. You can check their mandates by going to that specific dwarf's thoughts. This can cause [[fun]] as dwarves are arrested for not fufilling demands.</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=814 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.05}}

== Graphics ==
*<s>Arena does not work for graphics mode.</s>
:[http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=53505.0 Forum Link]
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=42 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.02}}

*After generating a world and embarking, you may notice missing tiles.
:Workaround: Restart Dwarf Fortress.

*In the 'z'-status menu, there is no image for nobles/administrators. Instead, there is an empty space where the purple dwarf should be.
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=375 Bug Tracker] --'''Open'''

== Saves ==
*Renaming a save (ex. "Region2-spr-1050" to "Region2") may invalidate the save, even if you give the save its original name back. ((Confirmation needed))

I had to reload an autosave (Region1-sum-1050). Renamed the file folder(to Region1), no problems encountered (was able to load, save over, etc.)

==Trading and Depot==

*<s>Elf traders may stay a long time.</s>
:This is because creatures that the elves come with do not have pack animal values set on them, yet elves are able to use any creature as a pack animal. Check what is carrying their goods when they arrive. Often it will be warthogs, which do not have trade capacity values. Which apparently makes them carry enormous, ridiculous loads and take forever to load/unpack.
:Workaround: A fix is to go into the creature_large_topical.txt file and add in [TRADE_CAPACITY:XXXX] under the warthog's [PACK_ANIMAL] entry (where XXXX is the weight you want them to carry). Or just remove the [PACK_ANIMAL] tag altogether. Be forewarned, you may or may not have to make a new world for the fix to take effect.
:Workaround: with the game paused and the depot in view, designate treecutting {{k|d}} - {{k|t}}, and just hold down the mouse button until the depot display no longer flashes between items very quickly.
::Why this works: it has been known that certain parts of the game engine keep running while the game is paused. These include cat-dwarf adoptions and the trade liaison conversation. It appears to also apply to traders loading up their goods, and probably to unloading goods as well.
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=325 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.06}}

*No one brings wagons, even if there is a clear path to your depot.
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=197 Bug Tracker]

*Dwarves may try to eat unowned food at the Depot, but realize their mistake halfway and stop... then try again... you can see where this is going.
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=237 Bug Tracker]

== Program Lockup ==
*The DF process sometimes locks up (freezes) when alt-tabbing to another window and back.
:Workaround: That happened to me fairly often in the 40d# series. Try hitting the Alt key (I think it was Alt anyway) before you give up. [[Special:Contributions/75.210.204.237|75.210.204.237]] 04:42, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Alt did not work, neither did control, shift, enter or any combination of those--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 18:22, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:::My lockup issue seems to be related to Lotus Notes. I only get the lockup when running Notes, and I don't get locked up when not running Notes.--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 17:12, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Frequent Runtime Error Crashes ==
*On Windows 7 machines, frequent C++ Runtime Error crashes. Performance becomes increasingly slow until this occurs. (confirmation needed) {{version|0.31.17}}
:In addition, Dwarf Fortress.exe process is not terminated after this crash, though window closes, requires manual termination of process to stop it.

v0.31:Known bugs and issues

2011-01-24T05:45:07Z

Wisq: /* Military */

{{av}}
'''PLEASE SUBMIT BUGS TO THE OFFICIAL BUG TRACKER - THEY WON'T GET FIXED IF THEY ARE ONLY LISTED HERE.''' 
'''[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/ Dwarf Fortress Bug Tracker]'''

'''Please link to the mantis tracker issue as well as the forum post if possible.'''

'''This page recently underwent a major cleanup edit. See the talk page for more info.'''

:As the version is new, and we're still discovering bugs, a lot of unverifiable information is going to get added to this thread. It is recommended that new entries be added with "'''(confirmation needed)'''", and that others can discuss and document each bug on the discussion page. Following confirmation of a bug with a specific description of what's occurring, the parenthetical can be removed.

:Please also read the 'Not Actually Bugs' section before adding bug reports!

==Not Actually Bugs==
*When choosing material for a squad item, there are hundreds of "forgotten beast leather" to choose from.
:This is because there are hundreds of different forgotten beasts.

*Making adamantine items sometimes results in "Urist McArmorer, Armorer cancels Forge adamantine cloak: Needs 10000 adamantine cloth." Likewise making pearlash can yield "...cancels Make pearlash. Needs 150 pearlash."
:Cloth and thread can be consumed "in pieces" now, for medical purposes. The game is reporting the new underlying micro-cloth value instead of the number of whole sheets. Likewise, one stack of metal bars is actually "150" units in the raws.

*Animals are listed twice on the embark screen.
:They're listed twice because they separately list males and females.

*Weird coloured letter in top left corner
:"''' C '''" means new combat report
:"''' H '''" means new hunting message
:"''' S '''" means new sparring message
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=52514.0 Forum Link]

*No option for magma in the finder
:[[Magma]] is guaranteed everywhere now.

*Unable to add items or skill points on the embarking screen.
:Check your keybindings! By default the keys to add and remove items and skills are + and - on the numpad.

*{{L|Wrestling}} will take much longer than combat using any kind of weapon (unlike in 40d.) One can set init/announcements.txt to show wrestling chokeholds in fort mode.

*When iron men and Bronze Colossuses die, the statues that make up their corpses adopt images of creatures (I.e: Statue of a dwarf 1) and events. The molten metal falling from them will make statues out of any corpses below where they died.

*All fish are mentioned twice.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123220#msg1123220 Forum Link]
:Not a bug. Each creature has a male and a female caste, and each caste shows up on embark.

*Nobles demands cabinets in their room but cabinets cant be assigned to any dwarf
:Placing a cabinet into any other room the noble has already been assigned is counted towards the cabinets he has demanded. Same goes for armor stands, weapon racks and chests.

== Embarking ==

*You can embark with some rather unrealistic prepared foods (such as fly brains, which in real life go at about 900 thousand brains to the pound). These unrealistic foods have also been seen in trading. This may be related to further issues involving vermin's organs. (Each 'Unit' of Food is representative of enough food to feed a dwarf for just over a month.)

*You may get a "Cavern Collapse" announcement as soon as you arrive. (Perhaps many times, if you have a volcano in your ocean...)
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=51 Bug Tracker]

== Sites ==

*Magma pipes in volcanoes extend to the top of the map, past the mountain itself.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=52412.0 Forum Link]

*Magma tubes remain the same shape and size the whole way down and may be square.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=52412.0 Forum Link]

*There are currently very few or even no fish. This includes brooks, rivers, oceans, ponds, lakes (underground and otherwise). You may get a few turtles sometimes.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=52217.0 Forum Link]
:[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2015 Bug Tracker]

== Buildings and Zones ==

*Can't farm on dry soil underground.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51951.msg1123336#msg1123336 Forum Link]
:Also, when you have selected Smooth Stone for a farm plot area, the dwarves will clean away the mud right from under the farm plots, rendering them useless until re-irrigated and rebuilt.

*Construction and/or deconstruction can occasionally force some dwarves to idle.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123250#msg1123250 Forum Link]

*<s>When linking buildings to levers/pressure plates, the view may center on a different building than the one that is currently selected. (However, the view switches to the correct building after it is selected)</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1915 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' in .31.13.

*Setting workshop profiles according to minimum and maximum skill levels does not work, typically resulting in no one being able to use the workshop. Setting a profile for individual dwarves still works.
:[http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61051.0 Forum Link]

* Going to the zones menu and changing the placing type to flow, and then pressing ESC causes a crash.
: Forum link/Bug tracker link requested

* Kiln gives message no task available when there is plaster, ash, buckets, and charcoal available
:[http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63169.msg1457910#msg1457910 forum link]

* Sometimes, building a Smelter inside a burrow will prevent you from queuing up jobs. Use your Manager to queue up jobs instead, or remove the Smelter from the burrow to solve this problem.
: Forum link/Bug tracker link requested

== Combat ==

*Some combat maneuvers have no effect.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123104#msg1123104 Forum Link]

*Attempting to grab a bodypart with a weapon leads to "you grab *** by *** with your *weapon* but nothing is grabbed

*Attempting to "pinch" various body parts shows "you adjust you grip on***" and nothing else.

*Alligators can wear armor
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123104#msg1123104 Forum Link]

*<s>Non-alive creatures (like bronze colossuses, zombies and blizzard men) cannot be destroyed (possibly because they can't bleed to death nor have their brain destroyed). Arena testing has revealed that [[dragonfire]] and [[magma]] can melt bronze colossuses, and falling from very high up may kill some undead creatures.</s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123220#msg1123220 Forum Link] -- '''Fixed''' in .10

*Shield-bashing has no effect with a wooden shield
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123499#msg1123499 Forum Link]

*<s>Ballistae have been nerfed considerably: They now easily glance off normal clothing and are very unlikely to kill anything with armour.</s>
:-- '''Fixed''' in .10

*<s>Animals with teeth do nearly no damage. Don't count on your wardogs to help defend your fortress.</s>
:[http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=55798.0 Workaround]
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=744 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.06}}

== Labors ==

*Hunting Issues
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123228#msg1123228 Forum Link]

*<s>Miners now cancel mining designations when they can't reach them</s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123272#msg1123272 Forum Link] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.03}}

*<s>Metal goblets are sometimes iron, regardless of input</s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123533#msg1123533 Forum Link] --'''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.11}}

*Manager screen doesn't show you materials for traction benches
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123533#msg1123533 Forum Link]

*<s>Workers are too dedicated, dehydrate themselves. This was intended as a helpful feature, as dwarves will try to finish what they are doing before running off to eat. However, many players view it as a bug, because it can cause dwarves that are far from food to begin with to starve to death. Working while hungry or thirsty also causes unhappy thoughts, slower work, and worse quality work.</s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123599#msg1123599 Forum Link]
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=8 Bug Tracker] --'''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.07}}

*<s>Cooking with alcohol is buggy</s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123702#msg1123702 Forum Link] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.08}}

*<s>When crafting shell crafts, craftsdwarves never actually produce a shell craft, but instead sit forever with the same shell, with their skills increasing.</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=206 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.11}}

*<s>Dwarves take orders to prepare meals with liquid ingredients like dwarven syrup, wine, and rum, but almost never do it and instead dump the liquid inside the kitchen where it sits cluttering it up and can't be moved... Because it's liquid.</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=138 Bug Tracker]
:Workaround: Using dwarven syrup works just fine for me, but my cook always grabs at least one solid ingredient. Ie, 3 stacks of syrup + one stack of cheese -> finished and edible meal.
:Workaround: The liquid seems to be underneath the kitchen. If you remove the kitchen, some dwarf will come along and clean the spill. Then you can remake the kitchen. I'd recommend simply disabling all cooking of booze.
:-- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.08}}

*<s>Making Rock Short Sword results in a wooden short sword. Especially annoying when making an adamantine sword! (multiple reports)</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=256 Bug Tracker]
:Bug is display only. Stats are based on the rock used. -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.13}}

*Metal items may require fewer bars/wafers than announcements lead you to believe. Since price of items is affected by what went into creating it, this can lead to your adamantine armor being worth far less than it would otherwise.
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=130 Bug Tracker]

*Wood cutter. Tried to upgrade his axe to a steel one, never cut another tree in his life after being forced to dump his copper battle axe. It's like wood cutting had a seperate profile and he was the only one excluded; Sure enough, turned one of my jewelers into wood cutter and it worked fine for him.

*Woodcutters can chop down trees with (wooden) training axes.
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=712 Bug Tracker]

*Immigrants can arrive with only peasant labors enabled, even if they are legendary jewelers. They may sometimes have weird labors enabled. (Stonecrafting master lye makers.)
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=110 Bug Tracker]

*In the {{k|o}}rders menu, there are options (in {{k|W}}orkshops) for auto {{k|b}}utcher, auto {{k|k}}itchen and auto {{k|f}}ishery. All three of these respond to {{k|b}} only, {{k|k}} and {{k|f}} do nothing.
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=68 Bug Tracker]

*<s>Parties never end, sometimes eating up half the labor force.</s>
:Workaround: Undesignate whatever the party is gathered around and it will end.
:-- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.11}}

*<s>Soap-making task is missing from the workshop. Issuing work order through the manager does work. Also with cutting clear and crystal glass.</s>
:The soap making task has two reagents, one of which is a barrel that [CONTAINS_LYE]. The bucket the lye is produced in doesn't count, since it's a bucket, not a barrel. Make sure you have 1) a dwarf with the appropriate hauling task enabled, 2) an empty, usable barrel, and 3) a food stockpile with lye allowed that accepts barreled inventory. Once the lye is in the barrel in the stockpile, check the soap shop again. Don't know why the glass is wonky, though. -[[Special:Contributions/76.102.26.49|76.102.26.49]] 06:27, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
:-- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.09}}

* Making crystal glass is broken.
: [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1498 Bug Tracker]

*<s>Making waterskin in leather works results in a weird item called "flask" (simply that, no mention of leather or whatever) that is never used and stays forever in the workshop. Those don't seem to cause clutter in the workshop either. (A metal variant (Ex. Iron) is now capable of being created at a metal smith, probably causing this bug. Soldiers will carry an Metal Flask).</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=93 Bug Tracker]
: "Flask" can be traded, but isn't automatically moved to stockpiles (It's neither a leather good nor a finished good). They do seem to clutter leatherworkers shops, which must then be destroyed and rebuilt (0.31.06). ~Neftaly Hernandez
: You can also use the View Items in Buildings command {{k|t}} to mark the Flasks for {{k|d}}umping to remove the clutter (0.31.06). ~mk
::More on metal flasks- a friend of mine noticed that when he assigned the job "make iron flask", in would go iron bars and charcoal, and out would come 3 ''gold'' flasks. I did the same thing, except I used coke instead of charcoal, and got 3 gypsum plaster flasks.
:::Making adamantine flasks results in iron flasks.
:-- '''Fixed''', works fine in .16

*Dwarves will occasionally go exceptionally out of their way to get a material while a giant stockpile is sitting beside them (I saw my carpenter travel half the map to get a log while there was a stockpile of 20 logs beside him)
:This will happen if the stockpiled items are already reserved for another task (sometimes happens en masse if you're designating constructions from the material). If this still functions as it did in 40d, dwarves will count the number of tiles to an item 'as the crow flies' rather than checking the actual pathfinding distance, meaning that they regard items above or below their workshop as being very nearby even if the travel distance to reach them is substantial. [[User:Oddtwang of Dork|Oddtwang of Dork]] 16:20, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
:True, but I wasn't using wood for anything, only had 2 carpenters active and the wood was on the same Z plane as my workshops. The usual explanation doesn't fly for the one event I saw.
::Perhaps they had the wood hauling labor enabled and were going to haul it?
I did have a similar event, where I put some food for a militia force to patrol a cavern I uncovered around 40 z-levels down from my legendary dining hall. This resulted in 20+ dwarves venturing through deep dangerous caverns to get food. It was particularly bad when a forgotten beast showed up and massacred 15 of them.

*Canceling a job at the metalsmith can jam the shop if the item was being actively produced at that time (Cancelled job to stop untrained armorer from working on an adamantium plate armor, shop jammed and no other orders ever went through. Ordered deconstruction and then halted deconstruction to clear this up.)

== Moods ==

*Fey moods can request body parts (!!!)
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123573#msg1123573 Forum Link]
:Just means shell or bone are needed (possibly also skin, skull, hoof, tooth, horn)

*Fey moods can request "rock bars." Has been seen to ignore all metal bars, ores, other rock, and rock. (Confirmed)
:I've had the same situation, but my dwarf made do with bars of [[Coke]].
:I think it means rock blocks.

*<s>Fey mood; Dwarf took only dog bones into the craftsdwarf's shop. Produced an iron figurine with an image of waves in dog bone on it.</s>
:Seconded Most if not all figurines made in Fey moods become iron, despite the material used.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=93 Bug #93] and [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=359 bug #359] -- '''Fixed''' {{v|0.31.11}}

*Fey mood;A different but related bug: in versions {{v|0.31.12-.16-.?}} all bone artifacts are stripped of all additional decorations {{bug|2806}}.

*Glass Makers will not use a Magma Glass Furnace to manufacture their artifact. A traditional Glass Furnace is needed. (0.31.04-.17)
:Confirmed to occur in .17. [[Special:Contributions/74.192.98.80|74.192.98.80]]

== Creature Data ==

*<s>Descriptions sometimes take strange objects: "She likes to consume she"</s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123533#msg1123533 Forum Link]
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=582 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.14}}

*Giants and giantesses are mapped to the wrong gender.
:Fixed
*Unicorns give birth to elk fawns.
:Fixed
*Mountain goat fawns are called "Stray Horse foal", although having all the features of a mountain goat.
:This is due to what is assumed to be a copy/paste error in the raws - The raws list "Mountain goat kid" as well as "Horse foal" as possible child names, so it randomly picks one.
:Fixed
*In BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS both eyelids are around the right eye and clean the left eye
:Fixed

== Stockpiles ==
*Problems with categorization. (Stone is considered metal)
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123178#msg1123178 Forum Link]
:[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=157 Bug Tracker]

*Custom stockpile options don't seem to always work
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123474#msg1123474 Forum Link]

*<s>Dead vermin never rot</s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51953.msg1123731#msg1123731 Forum Link]
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=161 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.04}}

*<s>"Take from stockpile" is broken</s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=52126.0 Forum Link]
: Fixed in .10
*There is no category for wood blocks. As such, wood blocks can not be removed from carpentry workshops.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=439 Bug Tracker]

== Military ==
'''{{L|Military|Main Military Page}}'''
'''[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=535 Main Military Equipment Bug Tracker Page]'''
*Dwarves who are assigned to squads seem to be permanently affixed to the soldier life - changing schedules, training options, switching out dwarves, disbanding the squad: nothing works. All they do is eat, drink, sleep, Individual Combat Drill and take Kill orders. (Multiple reports, bug incidence is somewhat inconsistent, deconstructing assigned barracks sometimes helps.)
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=605 Bug Tracker] --'''Acknowledged''' (There may be several duplicate bug reports.)

*<s>The [[arsenal dwarf]] may assign weapons/armor that do not belong to you.</s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1290 Bug Tracker-Goblins] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.06}}
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1526 Bug Tracker-Caravans] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.06}}
:Arsenal dwarf position deleted in .10
*Squads can get into a "permanent civilian life" and will never go into "recruit mode" unless ordered to "station" or "Kill a target", upon canceling this order they will go back to civilian mode. (Although they will perform individual combat drills, but in civilian garbs unless you replaced their equipment) [[User:Kenji 03|Kenji 03]] 11:54, 5 April 2010 (UTC).
:You mean they're supposed to not be civilians while training? Oh... yeah maybe that is a bug, never seen anything else personally - foarl 10:19, 09 April, 2010
::This bug is different - not civilian clothing, but civilian jobs. They'll work in workshops, haul goods, sit idle with "No Job", etc, and never attempt "Individual Combat Training". They do appear to equip assigned gear, though. -- 5:50, 10 June, 2010
:::Yes I can verify this bug. I have version .10 and it is still present-- None of the 4 dwarfs in 1 of my 2 squads will take on 'active' military roles such as macedwarf, marksdwarf, etc... unless they are performing a move or attack order. When a kill order was cancelled (because it was completed) they even dumped their weapons and armor right where they were! At the same time the other squad works fine other than they are all endlessly waiting for a training excercise to begin. I was able to work around this by disbanding the squad, firing the militia captain & recreating them. 17:00EST 19 July, 2010
::::This sounds like it may be a misunderstanding of the military system, because this is actually the default mode for soldiers. If their current task is "no scheduled order", they'll do civilian life + combat drills (without the soldier icon, and possibly without uniforms), but they'll respond to move/attack orders normally. The "inactive" schedule (the '''default''' schedule) has "no scheduled order" throughout. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 05:45, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

*<s>Bolts assigned to a squad that is then disbanded do not free up for use by other squads automatically.</s>
:-- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.11}}

*The default settings are such that your military dwarfs will train, train, train, and possibly starve in the process. [[Thirsty]] and [[Hungry]] tags are guaranteed to appear for any soldier (as they are when a dwarf does anything else in this release) because Dwarves will now try to complete a task before they eat/drink.
:{{L|Military/Guide}} -- '''Fixed''' Training dwarfs eat and drink properly in .16 (stationed military will not eat but are fed by civilians)

*<s>Dwarves will continue to train in barracks even after being removed from a squad. (Because they are completing the task they started before they will move on to something else, changing your alert helps here as well).</s>
:-- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.11}}

*<s>Dwarves will sometimes use many weapons and armor at once. When they have two weapons in the same hand, they seem to be unable to attack with either weapon.</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=648 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.11}}

*<s>Dwarves who die are still listed in the military screen in their squad without any notification of their death. This could lead to a user assigning the best equipment to a squad leader without knowledge of his demise.</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=182 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.11}}

*When [[Reclaim]]ing a lost fortress, soldiers will not use any armour or weapons assigned to them, insisting on training and fighting unarmoured and barehanded. This behaviour seems related to the [[arsenal dwarf]] position - when the fortress population becomes high enough and a dwarf is assigned to the position, soldiers will finally use the equipment they have been assigned. It seems that, on reclaiming, the game acts as if you need to have an arsenal dwarf right from the start, despite there not being any way to assign one.

*<s>Copying an empty order causes an immediate crash.</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=35 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.03}}

*<s>Going to the schedule grid of the inactive group causes an immediate crash. </s>
:[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=156 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.03}}

*Military orders are not removed from memory when saving/abandoning a game. When loading another savegame or starting a new fortress these orders will be applied to its squads.
:[http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1806 Bug Tracker]
:Workaround: Quit and restart df before loading a savegame or starting a new game.

== Medicine ==
*<s>Surgeons may endlessly perform surgery on dwarves with no effect.</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=318 Bug Tracker]
:Fixed
*<s>Surgeon provided constant "suturing," each time using up thread. May be related to above problem.</s> -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.07}}

*<s>Any blood smear or pool can spread indefinitely. The most common problem is a pool of blood in a high-traffic area. This causes every dwarf that touches it to get blood on them. Each dwarf will then eventually wash it off, creating another pool of blood by the well, which is likely another high-traffic area. Eventually you end up with the dining room and food stockpiles all coated with several dozen different creatures' blood.</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=296 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.16}} - An init setting to stop blood spreading has been added.

*Dwarves raid caravans for cloth (maybe thread as well) for the hospital zone.
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=66 Bug tracker]

*a bone doctor may get stuck on an 'apply cast' job while getting water. a workaround is to forbid all buckets, unforbid one and wait until it gets filled (e.g. to give to another patient or to fill a pond), forbid the filled bucket to cancel the job, then unforbid it and wait for the apply cast job to start again
:[http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62361.0 forum thread]
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2627 bug tracker]

== Items ==

*<s>Eating a masterwork meal will cause the cook to suffer art defacement.</s> -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.07}}

*<s>Quarry bush leaves might not appear in the kitchen menu, and dwarves might not cook them, rendering them useless except for trading.</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=47 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.02}}

*Obsidian does not appear in the accounting stone menu.
: Workaround: Remove edge tags from raws.
*Reclaim mode, some items recovered become immobile, even when claimed instead of forbidden. Buidling on the area they occupy is impossible, as dwarves won't move the item.
:Workaround: Make water wash the item into a river, or somewhere it will be destroyed.
:Workaround: Channel under the item, dropping it to a lower z-level. This makes the item usable again.
:Workaround: You can use DFhacktools to unbind the work order on stuck items.

*Dwarves will frequently abandon meals they've claimed for eating, resulting in rotting food scattered about the fortress that can't be stored, hauled, or dumped by any dwarf, including the one who claimed it.

* Dwarves may drop a bucket somewhere, and constantly try to use that bucket again, but not be able to find it, resulting in endless announcements.

==Nobles==

*<s>When the mayor dies, all nobles are removed until a new mayor is elected.</s>
:Workaround: To speed up this process, set the population required for mayors to '1' in the raws (raw>objects>entity_default.txt).
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=141 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.05}}

*<s>Former mayors continue to demand accomodations and make mandates. You can check their mandates by going to that specific dwarf's thoughts. This can cause [[fun]] as dwarves are arrested for not fufilling demands.</s>
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=814 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.05}}

== Graphics ==
*<s>Arena does not work for graphics mode.</s>
:[http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=53505.0 Forum Link]
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=42 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.02}}

*After generating a world and embarking, you may notice missing tiles.
:Workaround: Restart Dwarf Fortress.

*In the 'z'-status menu, there is no image for nobles/administrators. Instead, there is an empty space where the purple dwarf should be.
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=375 Bug Tracker] --'''Open'''

== Saves ==
*Renaming a save (ex. "Region2-spr-1050" to "Region2") may invalidate the save, even if you give the save its original name back. ((Confirmation needed))

I had to reload an autosave (Region1-sum-1050). Renamed the file folder(to Region1), no problems encountered (was able to load, save over, etc.)

==Trading and Depot==

*<s>Elf traders may stay a long time.</s>
:This is because creatures that the elves come with do not have pack animal values set on them, yet elves are able to use any creature as a pack animal. Check what is carrying their goods when they arrive. Often it will be warthogs, which do not have trade capacity values. Which apparently makes them carry enormous, ridiculous loads and take forever to load/unpack.
:Workaround: A fix is to go into the creature_large_topical.txt file and add in [TRADE_CAPACITY:XXXX] under the warthog's [PACK_ANIMAL] entry (where XXXX is the weight you want them to carry). Or just remove the [PACK_ANIMAL] tag altogether. Be forewarned, you may or may not have to make a new world for the fix to take effect.
:Workaround: with the game paused and the depot in view, designate treecutting {{k|d}} - {{k|t}}, and just hold down the mouse button until the depot display no longer flashes between items very quickly.
::Why this works: it has been known that certain parts of the game engine keep running while the game is paused. These include cat-dwarf adoptions and the trade liaison conversation. It appears to also apply to traders loading up their goods, and probably to unloading goods as well.
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=325 Bug Tracker] -- '''Fixed''' {{version|0.31.06}}

*No one brings wagons, even if there is a clear path to your depot.
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=197 Bug Tracker]

*Dwarves may try to eat unowned food at the Depot, but realize their mistake halfway and stop... then try again... you can see where this is going.
:[http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=237 Bug Tracker]

== Program Lockup ==
*The DF process sometimes locks up (freezes) when alt-tabbing to another window and back.
:Workaround: That happened to me fairly often in the 40d# series. Try hitting the Alt key (I think it was Alt anyway) before you give up. [[Special:Contributions/75.210.204.237|75.210.204.237]] 04:42, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
::Alt did not work, neither did control, shift, enter or any combination of those--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 18:22, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:::My lockup issue seems to be related to Lotus Notes. I only get the lockup when running Notes, and I don't get locked up when not running Notes.--[[Special:Contributions/208.81.12.34|208.81.12.34]] 17:12, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

== Frequent Runtime Error Crashes ==
*On Windows 7 machines, frequent C++ Runtime Error crashes. Performance becomes increasingly slow until this occurs. (confirmation needed) {{version|0.31.17}}
:In addition, Dwarf Fortress.exe process is not terminated after this crash, though window closes, requires manual termination of process to stop it.

v0.31 Talk:Anvil

2011-01-22T00:08:06Z

Wisq:

== Metals ==

Which metal can be used to smith an anvil? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Trepach|Trepach]]
:Any metal which includes the [ITEMS_ANVIL] token - in vanilla, this includes {{L|iron}}, {{L|steel}}, and {{L|adamantine}}. Also, please ''sign your comments''. Also also, '''''read the article''''' - the "Anvil Properties" section flatly states what anvils can be made from. --[[User:Quietust|Quietust]] 16:48, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

== Anvil cost ==

I just made an anvil out of a single bar of steel. The article says "one (three?)(verify)". Hard to tell if this is a bug or not, but if it is, it's probably the same bug that makes armour always take one bar regardless of type.

Also, since an anvil takes one bar and melts back into one bar, this looks like a really cheap way to level up the blacksmithing skill. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 00:08, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

v0.31 Talk:Site finder

2010-10-03T21:44:13Z

Wisq: Flux bug?

== Flux setting bug? ==

I'm getting a lot of sites that supposedly completely match my criteria (including my request for flux), but that don't actually seem to contain flux according to the stone layer list. For example: [http://cl.ly/0bf34028985909bc9722] [http://cl.ly/bfbf105e21d5041c029e] (the only biome in the site).

I've confirmed that the flux stones in the raws are the same as in the [[Flux]] article, so it seems that the flux finder is just giving some false positives as of v0.31.15. Or is it finding flux stone in the [[Hidden Fun Stuff]] layers? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 21:44, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

v0.31:DIY

2010-06-12T16:36:15Z

Wisq: Redirect as per DIY.

#REDIRECT [[cv:Make your own weapons]]

Utility Talk:Accent Removal

2010-03-18T22:41:39Z

Wisq: /* Linux FTW */

[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=21186 Discussion Thread] --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 19:15, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

== Troubleshooting ==
Step by step instruction produces unexpected results because several characters in posted command batch file are getting lost in translation from ASCII into UTF-8 (on the wiki) and back to ASCII after copy-pasting them.

[http://myfreefilehosting.com/f/59b18a517f_0.1MB Download correct replace script] and use it instead of copy-pasting method suggested in second step.
[[User:Nophotoavailable|Nophotoavailable]] 20:28, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
:Thanks for this. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 18:47, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

== Linux FTW ==

As all modern Linuxen have iconv installed by default, doing this is very easy. Use this command in a normal Bash shell:

for f in language_*.txt; do iconv -f CP437 -t ASCII//TRANSLIT <$f >$f.new; done; rename ".new" "" *.new;

– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Db48x|Db48x]]

:Yeah, I just independently discovered this; took me a bit before I figured out it was CP437. However, your "rename" utility seems different than mine. Mine expects a Perl expression, so the proper usage is

rename -f 's/\.new$//' *.new

:but the 'for' loop is fine. I've posted a version on the page that avoids "rename" entirely. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 22:17, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Utility Talk:Accent Removal

2010-03-18T22:41:15Z

Wisq: /* Linux FTW */

[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=21186 Discussion Thread] --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 19:15, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

== Troubleshooting ==
Step by step instruction produces unexpected results because several characters in posted command batch file are getting lost in translation from ASCII into UTF-8 (on the wiki) and back to ASCII after copy-pasting them.

[http://myfreefilehosting.com/f/59b18a517f_0.1MB Download correct replace script] and use it instead of copy-pasting method suggested in second step.
[[User:Nophotoavailable|Nophotoavailable]] 20:28, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
:Thanks for this. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 18:47, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

== Linux FTW ==

As all modern Linuxen have iconv installed by default, doing this is very easy. Use this command in a normal Bash shell:

for f in language_*.txt; do iconv -f CP437 -t ASCII//TRANSLIT <$f >$f.new; done; rename ".new" "" *.new;

– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Db48x|Db48x]]

:Yeah, I just independently discovered this; took me a bit before I figured out it was CP437. However, your "rename" utility seems different than mine. Mine expects a Perl expression, so the proper usage is

rename -f 's/\.new$//' *.new

:but the 'for' loop is fine. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 22:17, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Utility:Accent Removal

2010-03-18T22:38:13Z

Wisq: Added Linux instructions.

==Overview==
[[Image:Rj-unitlist.png|thumb|right|Replacing accented letters with normal ones in the raws fixes this problem.]]
Some tile sets use the accented characters for additional graphical symbols. This can make racial language text difficult to read. You can remove the accented characters and symbols from the data files. This works on existing worlds and saved games.

Since the structure of language files might change, it is safest if you remove the problem characters from the files yourself. Here are two methods to do just that. The first (Jackard's) only works on Windows, but is probably the easiest for novice users. The second (frobnic8's) will work anywhere Python does (i.e. just about anywhere), but requires using the command line a little.

==[[User:Jackard|Jackard]]'s [http://www.inforapid.de/html/searchreplace.htm InfoRapid] Script==
Download [http://www.inforapid.de/html/searchreplace.htm Inforapid Search and Replace.]

Save the list below to a text file.

Find the following files in <code>DF\raw\objects</code>:
*<code>language_DWARF.txt</code>
*<code>language_ELF.txt</code>
*<code>language_GOBLIN.txt</code>
*<code>language_HUMAN.txt</code>

Select them all, right-click and choose 'Search with InfoRapid' from the menu.

Click the Replace tab that shows up in the lower half of the window.

Select your text file from before in the Replace With field, make sure Replace is set to 'Whole Search Expression' and click Start.

A prompt will appear asking for confirmation. Check the Replace All button and click Yes. When the program stops running you are done.

<pre><Command>
<Search>„</Search>
<Replace>a</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search> </Search>
<Replace>a</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>ƒ</Search>
<Replace>a</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>†</Search>
<Replace>a</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>…</Search>
<Replace>a</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>‡</Search>
<Replace>c</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>‰</Search>
<Replace>e</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>‚</Search>
<Replace>e</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>Š</Search>
<Replace>e</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>ˆ</Search>
<Replace>e</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>‹</Search>
<Replace>i</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search></Search>
<Replace>i</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<CaseSensitive>Yes</CaseSensitive>
<Search>¡</Search>
<Replace>i</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>Œ</Search>
<Replace>i</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>¤</Search>
<Replace>n</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>•</Search>
<Replace>o</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>”</Search>
<Replace>o</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>“</Search>
<Replace>o</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>¢</Search>
<Replace>o</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>—</Search>
<Replace>u</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>–</Search>
<Replace>u</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>£</Search>
<Replace>u</Replace>
</Command>
<Command>
<Search>˜</Search>
<Replace>y</Replace>
</Command>
</pre>

==[[User:Frobnic8|frobnic8]]'s Modified [http://www.python.org Python] Script==
If you have the programming language Python installed on your machine (or don't mind installing it) and aren't scared of a command prompt, here is an alternate method. Python comes pre-installed on Mac OS X and almost all distributions of Linux. (If you are using Windows, the command line instructions shown will need to be modified slightly.)

<ol>
<li>Ensure you have [http://www.python.org Python] installed.</li>
<li>Copy and paste (this modified version of) "The Unicode Hammer" with the name <code>unicode_hammer.py</code> in the <code>raw/objects</code> sub-directory of your Dwarf FOrtress directory. (The Unicode Hammer: Is that a name worthy of Dwarf Fortress, or what?)<pre>
#!/usr/bin/env python
"""
latin1_to_ascii -- The UNICODE Hammer -- AKA "The Stupid American"

This takes a UNICODE string and replaces Latin-1 characters with
something equivalent in 7-bit ASCII. This returns a plain ASCII string.
This function makes a best effort to convert Latin-1 characters into
ASCII equivalents. It does not just strip out the Latin1 characters.
All characters in the standard 7-bit ASCII range are preserved.
In the 8th bit range all the Latin-1 accented letters are converted to
unaccented equivalents. Most symbol characters are converted to
something meaningful. Anything not converted is deleted.

Background:

One of my clients gets address data from Europe, but most of their systems
cannot handle Latin-1 characters. With all due respect to the umlaut,
scharfes s, cedilla, and all the other fine accented characters of Europe,
all I needed to do was to prepare addresses for a shipping system.
After getting headaches trying to deal with this problem using Python's
built-in UNICODE support I gave up and decided to use some brute force.
This function converts all accented letters to their unaccented equivalents.
I realize this is dirty, but for my purposes the mail gets delivered.

Noah Spurrier noah at noah.org
License free and public domain
"""

"""This version has had its translation table abused to produce
better results for the language files of the game Dwarf Fortress by
frobnic8. The original translation table is commented out.
"""

def latin1_to_ascii (unicrap):
"""This takes a UNICODE string and replaces Latin-1 characters with
something equivalent in 7-bit ASCII. It returns a plain ASCII string.
This function makes a best effort to convert Latin-1 characters into
ASCII equivalents. It does not just strip out the Latin-1 characters.
All characters in the standard 7-bit ASCII range are preserved.
In the 8th bit range all the Latin-1 accented letters are converted
to unaccented equivalents. Most symbol characters are converted to
something meaningful. Anything not converted is deleted.
"""
xlate={0xc0:'A', 0xc1:'A', 0xc2:'A', 0xc3:'A', 0xc4:'A', 0xc5:'A',
0xc6:'Ae', 0xc7:'C',
0xc8:'E', 0xc9:'E', 0xca:'E', 0xcb:'E',
0xcc:'I', 0xcd:'I', 0xce:'I', 0xcf:'I',
0xd0:'Th', 0xd1:'N',
0xd2:'O', 0xd3:'O', 0xd4:'O', 0xd5:'O', 0xd6:'O', 0xd8:'O',
0xd9:'U', 0xda:'U', 0xdb:'U', 0xdc:'U',
0xdd:'Y', 0xde:'th', 0xdf:'ss',
0xe0:'a', 0xe1:'a', 0xe2:'a', 0xe3:'a', 0xe4:'a', 0xe5:'a',
0xe6:'ae', 0xe7:'c',
0xe8:'e', 0xe9:'e', 0xea:'e', 0xeb:'e',
0xec:'i', 0xed:'i', 0xee:'i', 0xef:'i',
0xf0:'th', 0xf1:'n',
0xf2:'o', 0xf3:'o', 0xf4:'o', 0xf5:'o', 0xf6:'o', 0xf8:'o',
0xf9:'u', 0xfa:'u', 0xfb:'u', 0xfc:'u',
0xfd:'y', 0xfe:'th', 0xff:'y',
0xa1:'aa', 0xa2:'cz', 0xa3:'ii', 0xa4:'tz',
0xa5:'yy', 0xa6:'|', 0xa7:'zz', 0xa8:'"',
0xa9:'CC', 0xaa:'aa', 0xab:'<<', 0xac:'not',
0xad:'-', 0xae:'{R}', 0xaf:'_', 0xb0:'o',
0xb1:'+/-', 0xb2:'^2', 0xb3:'^3', 0xb4:"'",
0xb5:'uu', 0xb6:'PP', 0xb7:'*', 0xb8:',,',
0xb9:'^1', 0xba:'^o', 0xbb:'>>',
0xbc:'1/4', 0xbd:'1/2', 0xbe:'3/4', 0xbf:'?',
0xd7:'*', 0xf7:'/'
}
""" Orignals below, the above is hacked for Dwarf Fortress languages.
0xa1:'!', 0xa2:'{cent}', 0xa3:'{pound}', 0xa4:'{currency}',
0xa5:'{yen}', 0xa6:'|', 0xa7:'{section}', 0xa8:'{umlaut}',
0xa9:'{C}', 0xaa:'{^a}', 0xab:'<<', 0xac:'{not}',
0xad:'-', 0xae:'{R}', 0xaf:'_', 0xb0:'{degrees}',
0xb1:'{+/-}', 0xb2:'{^2}', 0xb3:'{^3}', 0xb4:"'",
0xb5:'{micro}', 0xb6:'{paragraph}', 0xb7:'*', 0xb8:'{cedilla}',
0xb9:'{^1}', 0xba:'{^o}', 0xbb:'>>',
0xbc:'{1/4}', 0xbd:'{1/2}', 0xbe:'{3/4}', 0xbf:'?',
0xd7:'*', 0xf7:'/'
}
"""
r = ''
for i in unicrap:
if ord(i) in xlate:
r += xlate[ord(i)]
elif ord(i) >= 0x80:
pass
else:
r += str(i)
return r

if __name__ == '__main__':
import sys
input = sys.stdin
output = sys.stdout
if len(sys.argv) == 1 or (len(sys.argv) == 2 and \
sys.argv[1] in ('-h', '-H', '-?', '--help', '/?', '/H', '/h')):
print 'unicode_hammer.py [infile [outfile]]\n'
s = unicode('','latin-1')
for c in range(32, 256):
if c != 0x7f:
s += unicode(chr(c), 'latin-1')
plain_ascii = latin1_to_ascii(s)

print 'INPUT type:', type(s)
print 'INPUT:'
print s.encode('latin-1')
print
print 'OUTPUT type:', type(plain_ascii)
print 'OUTPUT:'
print plain_ascii
sys.exit()

if len(sys.argv) > 1:
input = open(sys.argv[1])
if len(sys.argv) > 2:
output = open(sys.argv[2], 'w')
for line in input:
output.write(latin1_to_ascii(line))

</pre></li>
<li>Open a command prompt and change directory to your <code>raw/objects</code> directory.</li>
<li>Rename the four language files, adding '.orig' to the end of their names:<pre>
mv language_DWARF.txt language_DWARF.txt.orig
mv language_ELF.txt language_ELF.txt.orig
mv language_GOBLIN.txt language_GOBLIN.txt.orig
mv language_HUMAN.txt language_HUMAN.txt.orig
</pre></li>
<li>Apply the hammer to each of the four language files as follows:<pre>
python unicode_hammer.py language_DWARF.txt.orig language_DWARF.txt
python unicode_hammer.py language_ELF.txt.orig language_ELF.txt
python unicode_hammer.py language_GOBLIN.txt.orig language_GOBLIN.txt
python unicode_hammer.py language_HUMAN.txt.orig language_HUMAN.txt
</pre></li>
<li>Enjoy!</li>
</ol>

== The Linux way ==

Conversion between character sets is a standard part of Linux. To convert all the files in one go, change to the "raw/objects" directory and run this command:

for f in language_*.txt; do \
iconv -f CP437 -t ASCII//TRANSLIT $f > $f.new; \
mv -fv $f.new $f; \
done

All accented characters are converted to their normal, non-accented versions. Other characters (if any) are converted to their closest 7-bit ASCII representation.

This will overwrite the original language files. If you want them back, you can always unzip them again:

unzip -j '''''path-to-zipfile''''' raw/objects/language_\*.txt

Utility Talk:Accent Removal

2010-03-18T22:17:53Z

Wisq: /* Linux FTW */

[http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=21186 Discussion Thread] --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 19:15, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

== Troubleshooting ==
Step by step instruction produces unexpected results because several characters in posted command batch file are getting lost in translation from ASCII into UTF-8 (on the wiki) and back to ASCII after copy-pasting them.

[http://myfreefilehosting.com/f/59b18a517f_0.1MB Download correct replace script] and use it instead of copy-pasting method suggested in second step.
[[User:Nophotoavailable|Nophotoavailable]] 20:28, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
:Thanks for this. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 18:47, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

== Linux FTW ==

As all modern Linuxen have iconv installed by default, doing this is very easy. Use this command in a normal Bash shell:

for f in language_*.txt; do iconv -f CP437 -t ASCII//TRANSLIT <$f >$f.new; done; rename ".new" "" *.new;

:Yeah, I just independently discovered this; took me a bit before I figured out it was CP437. However, your "rename" utility seems different than mine. Mine expects a Perl expression, so the proper usage is

rename -f 's/\.new$//' *.new

:but the 'for' loop is fine. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 22:17, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

40d Talk:Stockpile

2009-06-13T03:14:58Z

Wisq: /* Custom Catastrophe */

=== Stockpile categories ===
'''[[Ore]]''' 
Ore will be brought here. This is one of the simpler stockpiles.
: Is it just me, or is this incorrect? I don't see an option in the new version for ore piles. I'm at work and so cannot double-check at this time, but I'll check when I get home and if I confirm it then, I'll remove Ore from the Stockpile categories.

You're correct. Ore is now included in the stone stockpile and there is no mining stockpile. I've made the change. -Valdemar

Should this page be retitled "Stockpile" to keep in line with the title style rules? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 17:44, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
:Done. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 18:15, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

==Custom Catastrophe==

According to the forums, and my own experiences, the "Custom" category doesn't actually work. Removing the unused stockpile and replacing it with one of the standard type, then editing it to your specifications will work. Also types can be safely changed after they're assigned. (I turned a wood stockpile to a bed stockpile with successful stocking).
I came across this after a great deal of kitchen rebuilding because my cook wouldn't fill the stockpiles. If someone more familiar with the wiki, and the game, could confirm this and edit the page it would be appreciated, it's something that should be out there. [[User:Scribbler|Scribbler]] 14:24, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

: I have not had this problem, although I do need to be careful making sure that I actually adjust the cus{{k|t}}om stockpile settings before placing the stockpile, and then being sure that I'm still placing a custom stockpile. This menu is one of the least-intuitive to my mind, but the settings work, AFAIK. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:48, 4 November 2008 (EST)

:Custom stockpiles work perfectly for me, and have for a logn time. Maybe the original poster overlooked the "prepared food" option under the food submenu?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:53, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:::probably as simple as not allowing the 'material'/'core quality'/'total quality' options to be on. maybe even the 'metals' one if you want a metal-stuff stockpile. i've had lots of trouble with it, too x] usually done by {{k|b}}locking all, and just selecting the item on it's own. everything has to be made out of something! --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 13:01, 7 March 2009 (EST)

::::For me, dwarves ignore custom stockpiles as long as there is an unfilled existing stockpile that accepts whatever the custom stockpile accepts. Once that stockpile fills (and the dwarves are forced to begin using the custom pile) the custom stockpile is used normally--even if the other stockpile empties.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 21:26, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::I'm having a similar problem. Whenever I have two stockpiles of the same type but different things accepted (like two refuse piles where one accepts only bones, shells, and skulls and the other accepts all except those), only one gets used. Individually, either one will get them correctly, but when I have both, one gets ignored. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 04:01, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

:Regarding custom stockpiles: I'm pretty sure that setting one up using the custom menu is 100% identical to setting up a standard one and then editing it. Caveats: You're more likely to mess up the selection when using custom (because it remembers your prior one), whereas you're more likely to mess up the barrels / bins settings when editing an existing one (because those are only set at creation time).

:Remember also that items must match ALL filters. That means you must allow some or all "metals" / "materials" selections; some or all "core quality" and "total quality" modifiers; "usable" and/or "unusable" for weapons/armour; etc. Selecting "weapons, bolts, steel, masterful, usable" will get you '''only''' masterful steel bolts, and that's also the '''minimum''' needed to get them. Even something as broad as "weapons, bolts, all materials/metals, all qualities" will get you exactly nothing if you accidentally uncheck "usable".

:Also, remember that dwarves may not move items in barrels/bins between stockpiles unless the new stockpile also accepts barrels/bins. To truly unbarrel / unbin stuff, you may have to dump it and reclaim it.

:Regarding the scenario of a more selective stockpile accepting a subset of what a broader stockpile accepts: This will typically not work unless you use "take from stockpile" (from broad to selective) or simply turn off some stuff in the broader one so there's no longer an overlap. There is no rule that says "put items in the most specific stockpile".

:Regarding not being able to use multiple refuse piles: Remember that dwarves will not collect outdoor refuse unless you enable it. That means you cannot create a stockpile for corpses / bodyparts (not bones) outdoors, and a stockpile for bones (not corpses) indoors, and expect your dwarves to take the bones indoors once the corpses rot away. You must use {{k|o}}-{{k|r}}-{{k|o}} to enable outdoor refuse collection.

:Hope these help. Maybe they should be in the article, dunno. I've never seen any of the problems mentioned in this section, and I use custom stockpiles a lot. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 03:14, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

== Bins ==

how do I make my bins get to the "right" stockpiles (ie i want to put stone in bins to compact it but so far my bin is sitting in a "finished goods" stockpile)[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:40, 4 January 2008 (EST)

:Raw objects generally can't be put in bins, only "processed" goods. For instance, [[block]]s can be put in bins, but not raw stone. The best way to get a compact stone store is to create a dump, though I haven't fiddled with that technique yet.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:51, 4 January 2008 (EST)
::Stone designated for dumping (individually which is a pain no matter how you do it) can all end up on a single dump activity zone and then reclaimed, this is much more space-efficient than stone stockpiles.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:42, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
:::You can now mass designate items for dumping by selecting large amounts of stone, or any other object, really. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 15:46, 3 January 2009 (EST)
:Is my problem similar to what you mean, GarrieIrons? I have a clothing/leather stockpile that is filled to the brink with individual items. I want to put them in bins so that I can have more room (as there are more items to be stored) but whenever I find a way to make room in the stockpile, more non-bin items are added until it is full again. On top of that, there is already one bin on the stockpile and no one will store anything in it. [[User:FJH|FJH]] 21:30, 17 February 2009 (EST)
::i had the same problem, and was just about to post it, then found an answer! :D set your stockpile to accept bins/barrels/whatever (mine's a stone block stockpile way outside of my fort, from which the peasants were carting one block at a time into a free bin. now it's a bin and block stockpile (Note: DO NOT TURN OFF 'core quality', 'total quality' etc. if you do, NO bins/barrels will be accepted)), press {{k|q}}uery(?) over the stockpile, then press {{k|t}}ake from a pile. go to your finished goods stockpile (the one containing the bins/barrels), and hit {{k|Enter}}. your peasants will immediately start running over to it with bins/barrels. sorted :D note: they'll take all your bins over! remember to {{k|q}} over your new stockpile, and set the maximum amount of bins/barrels with {{k|c}} (more) and {{k|v}} (fewer). mine's set to 10. thinking about it... you may just be able to set your finished goods stockpile max to 10 bins/barrels, and any others will be taken somewhere else (probably not a good thing; they may get left clogging up your workspace) --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 12:45, 7 March 2009 (EST)

== Usable/Unusable Weapons/Armour? ==

Anyone knows exactly what this does? It seems that stockpiles set to "unusable" will only collect things that dwarfs can't possibly ever use, not even in Adventure mode (ex: big human two-handed weapons such as a halberd), but while technically things like whips and scimitars aren't unusable, dwarfs in Fortress mode will never equip them - no such option in the Military screen. Or will they use, for example, a scimitar if set to use swords? Will that use the Swordsdwarf skill? IMO it would be more useful if it included any weapon not in the Military screen. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 12:44, 12 January 2008 (EST)
:I use this when I kill kobolds etc - all the weapons my dwarf collect of '''hostile''' creatures then go into the same bin. I can't use them, but I ''can'' drag one bin all at once to the visiting [[trading|merchant]] - ker-ching! They sell pretty well.
:But I agree, it should be that any weapon dwarves cannot use should end up there.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:53, 14 February 2008 (EST)

== my dear cook ==

preparing food stacks larger than *ten* - on what depends the number? my cook sometimes does it, sometimes not, both with lavish and simple meals. Is it from the stack size? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 02:36, 14 February 2008 (EST)

:The biggest question here though is - what is the appropriate setting for a stockpile for cooked food?
:It seems to be, "forbid" everything but make sure "Prepared food" is turned on. But "prepared food" seems to be turned on as the default, and it allows even unprocessed fish etc to be placed in the stockpile. So this doesn't make much sense to me.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:40, 27 February 2008 (EST)
: well, you could use a refuse pile with only prepared meals enabled...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:39, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:: to be more precise, a custom stockpile (t) with only prepared meals enabled under 'Refuse' - works and is not even called a refuse pile. Havent seen someone eat from it yet though.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:03, 3 March 2008 (EST)
:I think in general, the number of prepared meals in the stack is based on the number of ingredients used. The biggest stacks of ingredients are generally quarry bush leaves, but depending on the animal, stacks of tallow can equal or exceed them. I have mini-stockpiles for quarry bush leaves and tallow adjacent to my kitchen, and if a stack smaller than 20 gets made, it generally means those mini-stockpiles are out. [[User:Darekun|Darekun]] 22:03, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

== Stone Stockpiles ==

Currently my dwarves are not hauling ores of iron, zinc and lignite which I have disabled for my other stone stockpiles. I have over 8000 stone in somewhat organized stockpiles since I thought my wealth would generate more slowly with everyone hauling them all around the map with the more common stones, siltstone and phyllite, creating common crafts, statues, hatch covers, flood gates, mechanisms and use in stone fall traps. I now have over 333 stockpiles. I went and mined all ores used in creating fuels and metals and it seems that the storage space I've made might not be that big enough. What's the problem?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 21:35, 9 July 2008 (EDT)
:Just got it, I had ignore minerals. Sorry.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 21:35, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

== Take From Stockpile ==

While we're adding information to this section, Can someone who has used this successfully give a more concrete example? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:22, 6 November 2008 (EST)

:Well, I gave it a shot --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:27, 7 March 2009 (EST)

== Clear stone to replace with stockpile? ==

Is there any way to clear the stone out of the way so I can build a stock pile for something that ISN'T stone? Got a nice big room full of workshops and nowhere to put anything because 90% of the spots are filled with stones.

(Is it just me, or do the dwarves sometimes seem ''really'' dumb? I set up a paved road of about 10 sections from the top exit of the fortress to the edge of the map for caravans. I set up stone stockpiles next to every other segment of the road both so they didn't have to walk so far to do it and to clear some of the stone out... They started at the farthest away road segment, and will go all the way to the other end of the road, down three flights of stairs, all the way to an otherwise empty room to pick up a piece of stone to go all the way back to use it on the road, rather than use the nearby and completely full stockpiles. ) --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 05:24, 27 November 2008 (EST)

:[[Stone management]]. As for the road, when constructing a building, it shows you how distant the materials are, but only "as the crow flies". If the nearest stone is one z-level away and you unwittingly select it, they'll walk however long a path they have to actually fetch it. Same thing for workshops -- they'll go huge distances to get the item that's just above their heads.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:01, 27 November 2008 (EST)

::That may explain it... I set up the stockpiles after designating the road, so (after everyone dropped everything to fill the stockpiles), they went to the stone that I apparently designated when I set up the road. Would be nice if you could just tell them 'take THIS item and put it THERE'... --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 21:16, 28 November 2008 (EST)

:::[[Dump]]ing more or less allows you to do that.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:59, 28 November 2008 (EST)

::::Seems less than more. :-p I've got a leftover iron knife sitting on the remains of a two dimensional goblin in a stonefall trap... I set everything to dump, and they took everything but his body and his knife. (I sold all his crap to the elves that showed up shortly thereafter). I ended up going with the catapult version...had a peasant build three catapult parts then set it up and toss rocks across the room into a channel... he's now a siege engineer. So I had him build another and started another peasant on it, and they're happily banging away at the wall... --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 23:01, 29 November 2008 (EST)

==Armor bin capacity==

I have a bin in my armor stockpile that has 17 items in it, so unless something really weird is going on the statement in the article that bins in armor stockpiles can consolidate up to 10 items is probably false. Anyone know what the truth is? [[User:MJSS|MJSS]] 20:51, 16 December 2008 (EST)

:It depends on the size of the items. An armor bin can hold a lot more boots and gauntlets than it can suits of platemail. It was speculated that 10 is the minimum number of goods a bin can hold, although I think platemail bins don't even hold that many. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 21:02, 16 December 2008 (EST)

::I've long been curious about what the formula is for bin capacity. A question for the future, I guess.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 15:29, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:Crafts fit in bins in especially large numbers; perhaps based on the "material size" of the item, with some default applying to things with no explicit material size? There's also the matter of bags of seeds. [[User:Darekun|Darekun]] 23:52, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

== Core Quality vs Total Quality ==

What's the difference? Does core quality refer to the quality of the item while total quality somehow takes into account its decorations? If I have a standard quality sword menacing with masterwork spikes of bone, what total quality is that? [[User:Schwern|Schwern]] 17:49, 31 December 2008 (EST)

:Yes, and I have no idea. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:04, 31 December 2008 (EST)
:The formula is unknown. We wish we knew.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:07, 7 March 2009 (EST)

== Putting things in bins higher priority than Take From Stockpile? ==

In most cases, ''Take From Stockpile'' works fine; however, I seem to have a situation where it does not. Stockpile A is set to accept only skull totems, zero bin maximum, and take from Stockpile B which is set to accept finished goods (incl. skull totems) and has a non-zero bin maximum. However, I find my dwarfs are moving items from A to B, when they should be moving totems from B to A.

I've only had this problem with skull totems, but I don't think it has to do with the totems themselves, but rather because this is the only time I've been attempting to move items from a stockpile that uses bins to one that does not. Has anyone else seen this? I need to do some testing, but I think the desire to put things in bins on stockpiles overrides the desire to take things from one stockpile to another. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 18:02, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:You could edit the priority of putting items in a bin, over just sitting on the ground. I think default is like 120 or something.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:24, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:P.S. It's in the init.

:Might I ask why you're allowing totems in Stockpile B at all? Seems like an easy way to do it would be to simply have the totems only end up in Pile A. I usually only use "Take from" when preparing to relocate my primary stockpile for an item elsewhere. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:17, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== Trampling of food? ==

Is it just my imagination, or was there once an issue (feature) whereby unbarrelled food, particularly prepared meals, would degrade over time due to trampling by dwarves going to get food? I can't find mention of it anywhere, but I've been designing trample-proof piles with diagonal "checkerboard" access for a long time now, and I'm wondering if it's still (or was ever) necessary. Maybe someone confused the vermin issue with trampling? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 01:44, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

:I think I've found a reference to it, in the [[Wear]] article. "Wear can be caused by heavy traffic over the location an item is stored." But my questions still stand re: whether this still/ever applied to food, whether barrels make them immune or just help, etc. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 23:23, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
::I don't believe it matters. If you read that article, you know that [[wear]] is a sort of lowering of quality. And you ''should'' know that raw foodstuffs have no quality - if you don't, they don't. (And that article specifically states that [[Kitchen#Prepared meals|prepared food]]s are not subject to wear.) Putting these together, we get - it doesn't matter. I don't believe they do, but ~if~ the plump helmets or jaguar meat were to get worn out - they're still plump helmets or meat, and still just as edible and quality-less as before. (As to the question of where you might have gotten this idea, I got nuthin'.) I think the important phrase is ''"I can't find mention of it anywhere"''. If wear effects food, I have seen no report of it either, anywhere.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:38, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Yeah, I suspect it was a rumour someone started a while back as an explanation for why their food was getting damaged, when in fact it was vermin doing it. At least now I can stop making wacky stockpiles for unbarrelled food. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 05:55, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== Moving only items that are in a bin ==

This is mainly aimed at efficiently moving items to be near the Trade Depot.

What I want to do is designate a mixed stockpile but then say "only bring full bins to this stockpile".

Then I can have stockpiles near each workshop, when a bin is full a hauler comes and does the right thing for me.

It all sounds so easy and logical! Now, is there an easy way to do it? What I am noticing is, if I have

workshop -> stockpile A -> stockpile B -> trade depot

when I put "stockpile B" on "max bins: all squares", then my haulers never bother stopping at Stockpile A with inidividual items they just go

workshop -> haul item -> stockpile B.

[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 08:31, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Stockpile

2009-06-13T03:04:42Z

Wisq: /* Custom Catastrophe */

=== Stockpile categories ===
'''[[Ore]]''' 
Ore will be brought here. This is one of the simpler stockpiles.
: Is it just me, or is this incorrect? I don't see an option in the new version for ore piles. I'm at work and so cannot double-check at this time, but I'll check when I get home and if I confirm it then, I'll remove Ore from the Stockpile categories.

You're correct. Ore is now included in the stone stockpile and there is no mining stockpile. I've made the change. -Valdemar

Should this page be retitled "Stockpile" to keep in line with the title style rules? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 17:44, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
:Done. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 18:15, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

==Custom Catastrophe==

According to the forums, and my own experiences, the "Custom" category doesn't actually work. Removing the unused stockpile and replacing it with one of the standard type, then editing it to your specifications will work. Also types can be safely changed after they're assigned. (I turned a wood stockpile to a bed stockpile with successful stocking).
I came across this after a great deal of kitchen rebuilding because my cook wouldn't fill the stockpiles. If someone more familiar with the wiki, and the game, could confirm this and edit the page it would be appreciated, it's something that should be out there. [[User:Scribbler|Scribbler]] 14:24, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

: I have not had this problem, although I do need to be careful making sure that I actually adjust the cus{{k|t}}om stockpile settings before placing the stockpile, and then being sure that I'm still placing a custom stockpile. This menu is one of the least-intuitive to my mind, but the settings work, AFAIK. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:48, 4 November 2008 (EST)

:Custom stockpiles work perfectly for me, and have for a logn time. Maybe the original poster overlooked the "prepared food" option under the food submenu?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:53, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:::probably as simple as not allowing the 'material'/'core quality'/'total quality' options to be on. maybe even the 'metals' one if you want a metal-stuff stockpile. i've had lots of trouble with it, too x] usually done by {{k|b}}locking all, and just selecting the item on it's own. everything has to be made out of something! --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 13:01, 7 March 2009 (EST)

::::For me, dwarves ignore custom stockpiles as long as there is an unfilled existing stockpile that accepts whatever the custom stockpile accepts. Once that stockpile fills (and the dwarves are forced to begin using the custom pile) the custom stockpile is used normally--even if the other stockpile empties.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 21:26, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::I'm having a similar problem. Whenever I have two stockpiles of the same type but different things accepted (like two refuse piles where one accepts only bones, shells, and skulls and the other accepts all except those), only one gets used. Individually, either one will get them correctly, but when I have both, one gets ignored. [[User:Greep|Greep]] 04:01, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

:Regarding custom stockpiles: I'm pretty sure that setting one up using the custom menu is 100% identical to setting up a standard one and then editing it. Caveats: You're more likely to mess up the selection when using custom (because it remembers your prior one), whereas you're more likely to mess up the barrels / bins settings when editing an existing one (because those are only set at creation time).

:Remember also that items must match ALL filters. That means you must allow some or all "core quality" and "total quality" modifiers; you must allow "usable" and/or "unusable" for weapons/armour; etc.

:Also, remember that dwarves may not move items in barrels/bins between stockpiles unless the new stockpile also accepts barrels/bins. To truly unbarrel / unbin stuff, you may have to dump it and reclaim it.

:Regarding the scenario of a more selective stockpile accepting a subset of what a broader stockpile accepts: This will typically not work unless you use "take from stockpile" (from broad to selective) or simply turn off some stuff in the broader one so there's no longer an overlap. There is no rule that says "put items in the most specific stockpile".

:Regarding not being able to use multiple refuse piles: Remember that dwarves will not collect outdoor refuse unless you enable it. That means you cannot create a stockpile for corpses / bodyparts (not bones) outdoors, and a stockpile for bones (not corpses) indoors, and expect your dwarves to take the bones indoors once the corpses rot away. You must use {{k|o}}-{{k|r}}-{{k|o}} to enable outdoor refuse collection.

:Hope these help. Maybe they should be in the article, dunno. I've never seen any of the problems mentioned in this section, and I use custom stockpiles a lot. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 03:04, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

== Bins ==

how do I make my bins get to the "right" stockpiles (ie i want to put stone in bins to compact it but so far my bin is sitting in a "finished goods" stockpile)[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:40, 4 January 2008 (EST)

:Raw objects generally can't be put in bins, only "processed" goods. For instance, [[block]]s can be put in bins, but not raw stone. The best way to get a compact stone store is to create a dump, though I haven't fiddled with that technique yet.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:51, 4 January 2008 (EST)
::Stone designated for dumping (individually which is a pain no matter how you do it) can all end up on a single dump activity zone and then reclaimed, this is much more space-efficient than stone stockpiles.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:42, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
:::You can now mass designate items for dumping by selecting large amounts of stone, or any other object, really. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 15:46, 3 January 2009 (EST)
:Is my problem similar to what you mean, GarrieIrons? I have a clothing/leather stockpile that is filled to the brink with individual items. I want to put them in bins so that I can have more room (as there are more items to be stored) but whenever I find a way to make room in the stockpile, more non-bin items are added until it is full again. On top of that, there is already one bin on the stockpile and no one will store anything in it. [[User:FJH|FJH]] 21:30, 17 February 2009 (EST)
::i had the same problem, and was just about to post it, then found an answer! :D set your stockpile to accept bins/barrels/whatever (mine's a stone block stockpile way outside of my fort, from which the peasants were carting one block at a time into a free bin. now it's a bin and block stockpile (Note: DO NOT TURN OFF 'core quality', 'total quality' etc. if you do, NO bins/barrels will be accepted)), press {{k|q}}uery(?) over the stockpile, then press {{k|t}}ake from a pile. go to your finished goods stockpile (the one containing the bins/barrels), and hit {{k|Enter}}. your peasants will immediately start running over to it with bins/barrels. sorted :D note: they'll take all your bins over! remember to {{k|q}} over your new stockpile, and set the maximum amount of bins/barrels with {{k|c}} (more) and {{k|v}} (fewer). mine's set to 10. thinking about it... you may just be able to set your finished goods stockpile max to 10 bins/barrels, and any others will be taken somewhere else (probably not a good thing; they may get left clogging up your workspace) --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 12:45, 7 March 2009 (EST)

== Usable/Unusable Weapons/Armour? ==

Anyone knows exactly what this does? It seems that stockpiles set to "unusable" will only collect things that dwarfs can't possibly ever use, not even in Adventure mode (ex: big human two-handed weapons such as a halberd), but while technically things like whips and scimitars aren't unusable, dwarfs in Fortress mode will never equip them - no such option in the Military screen. Or will they use, for example, a scimitar if set to use swords? Will that use the Swordsdwarf skill? IMO it would be more useful if it included any weapon not in the Military screen. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 12:44, 12 January 2008 (EST)
:I use this when I kill kobolds etc - all the weapons my dwarf collect of '''hostile''' creatures then go into the same bin. I can't use them, but I ''can'' drag one bin all at once to the visiting [[trading|merchant]] - ker-ching! They sell pretty well.
:But I agree, it should be that any weapon dwarves cannot use should end up there.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:53, 14 February 2008 (EST)

== my dear cook ==

preparing food stacks larger than *ten* - on what depends the number? my cook sometimes does it, sometimes not, both with lavish and simple meals. Is it from the stack size? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 02:36, 14 February 2008 (EST)

:The biggest question here though is - what is the appropriate setting for a stockpile for cooked food?
:It seems to be, "forbid" everything but make sure "Prepared food" is turned on. But "prepared food" seems to be turned on as the default, and it allows even unprocessed fish etc to be placed in the stockpile. So this doesn't make much sense to me.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:40, 27 February 2008 (EST)
: well, you could use a refuse pile with only prepared meals enabled...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:39, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:: to be more precise, a custom stockpile (t) with only prepared meals enabled under 'Refuse' - works and is not even called a refuse pile. Havent seen someone eat from it yet though.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:03, 3 March 2008 (EST)
:I think in general, the number of prepared meals in the stack is based on the number of ingredients used. The biggest stacks of ingredients are generally quarry bush leaves, but depending on the animal, stacks of tallow can equal or exceed them. I have mini-stockpiles for quarry bush leaves and tallow adjacent to my kitchen, and if a stack smaller than 20 gets made, it generally means those mini-stockpiles are out. [[User:Darekun|Darekun]] 22:03, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

== Stone Stockpiles ==

Currently my dwarves are not hauling ores of iron, zinc and lignite which I have disabled for my other stone stockpiles. I have over 8000 stone in somewhat organized stockpiles since I thought my wealth would generate more slowly with everyone hauling them all around the map with the more common stones, siltstone and phyllite, creating common crafts, statues, hatch covers, flood gates, mechanisms and use in stone fall traps. I now have over 333 stockpiles. I went and mined all ores used in creating fuels and metals and it seems that the storage space I've made might not be that big enough. What's the problem?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 21:35, 9 July 2008 (EDT)
:Just got it, I had ignore minerals. Sorry.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 21:35, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

== Take From Stockpile ==

While we're adding information to this section, Can someone who has used this successfully give a more concrete example? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:22, 6 November 2008 (EST)

:Well, I gave it a shot --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:27, 7 March 2009 (EST)

== Clear stone to replace with stockpile? ==

Is there any way to clear the stone out of the way so I can build a stock pile for something that ISN'T stone? Got a nice big room full of workshops and nowhere to put anything because 90% of the spots are filled with stones.

(Is it just me, or do the dwarves sometimes seem ''really'' dumb? I set up a paved road of about 10 sections from the top exit of the fortress to the edge of the map for caravans. I set up stone stockpiles next to every other segment of the road both so they didn't have to walk so far to do it and to clear some of the stone out... They started at the farthest away road segment, and will go all the way to the other end of the road, down three flights of stairs, all the way to an otherwise empty room to pick up a piece of stone to go all the way back to use it on the road, rather than use the nearby and completely full stockpiles. ) --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 05:24, 27 November 2008 (EST)

:[[Stone management]]. As for the road, when constructing a building, it shows you how distant the materials are, but only "as the crow flies". If the nearest stone is one z-level away and you unwittingly select it, they'll walk however long a path they have to actually fetch it. Same thing for workshops -- they'll go huge distances to get the item that's just above their heads.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:01, 27 November 2008 (EST)

::That may explain it... I set up the stockpiles after designating the road, so (after everyone dropped everything to fill the stockpiles), they went to the stone that I apparently designated when I set up the road. Would be nice if you could just tell them 'take THIS item and put it THERE'... --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 21:16, 28 November 2008 (EST)

:::[[Dump]]ing more or less allows you to do that.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:59, 28 November 2008 (EST)

::::Seems less than more. :-p I've got a leftover iron knife sitting on the remains of a two dimensional goblin in a stonefall trap... I set everything to dump, and they took everything but his body and his knife. (I sold all his crap to the elves that showed up shortly thereafter). I ended up going with the catapult version...had a peasant build three catapult parts then set it up and toss rocks across the room into a channel... he's now a siege engineer. So I had him build another and started another peasant on it, and they're happily banging away at the wall... --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 23:01, 29 November 2008 (EST)

==Armor bin capacity==

I have a bin in my armor stockpile that has 17 items in it, so unless something really weird is going on the statement in the article that bins in armor stockpiles can consolidate up to 10 items is probably false. Anyone know what the truth is? [[User:MJSS|MJSS]] 20:51, 16 December 2008 (EST)

:It depends on the size of the items. An armor bin can hold a lot more boots and gauntlets than it can suits of platemail. It was speculated that 10 is the minimum number of goods a bin can hold, although I think platemail bins don't even hold that many. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 21:02, 16 December 2008 (EST)

::I've long been curious about what the formula is for bin capacity. A question for the future, I guess.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 15:29, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:Crafts fit in bins in especially large numbers; perhaps based on the "material size" of the item, with some default applying to things with no explicit material size? There's also the matter of bags of seeds. [[User:Darekun|Darekun]] 23:52, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

== Core Quality vs Total Quality ==

What's the difference? Does core quality refer to the quality of the item while total quality somehow takes into account its decorations? If I have a standard quality sword menacing with masterwork spikes of bone, what total quality is that? [[User:Schwern|Schwern]] 17:49, 31 December 2008 (EST)

:Yes, and I have no idea. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:04, 31 December 2008 (EST)
:The formula is unknown. We wish we knew.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:07, 7 March 2009 (EST)

== Putting things in bins higher priority than Take From Stockpile? ==

In most cases, ''Take From Stockpile'' works fine; however, I seem to have a situation where it does not. Stockpile A is set to accept only skull totems, zero bin maximum, and take from Stockpile B which is set to accept finished goods (incl. skull totems) and has a non-zero bin maximum. However, I find my dwarfs are moving items from A to B, when they should be moving totems from B to A.

I've only had this problem with skull totems, but I don't think it has to do with the totems themselves, but rather because this is the only time I've been attempting to move items from a stockpile that uses bins to one that does not. Has anyone else seen this? I need to do some testing, but I think the desire to put things in bins on stockpiles overrides the desire to take things from one stockpile to another. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 18:02, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:You could edit the priority of putting items in a bin, over just sitting on the ground. I think default is like 120 or something.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:24, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:P.S. It's in the init.

:Might I ask why you're allowing totems in Stockpile B at all? Seems like an easy way to do it would be to simply have the totems only end up in Pile A. I usually only use "Take from" when preparing to relocate my primary stockpile for an item elsewhere. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:17, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== Trampling of food? ==

Is it just my imagination, or was there once an issue (feature) whereby unbarrelled food, particularly prepared meals, would degrade over time due to trampling by dwarves going to get food? I can't find mention of it anywhere, but I've been designing trample-proof piles with diagonal "checkerboard" access for a long time now, and I'm wondering if it's still (or was ever) necessary. Maybe someone confused the vermin issue with trampling? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 01:44, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

:I think I've found a reference to it, in the [[Wear]] article. "Wear can be caused by heavy traffic over the location an item is stored." But my questions still stand re: whether this still/ever applied to food, whether barrels make them immune or just help, etc. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 23:23, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
::I don't believe it matters. If you read that article, you know that [[wear]] is a sort of lowering of quality. And you ''should'' know that raw foodstuffs have no quality - if you don't, they don't. (And that article specifically states that [[Kitchen#Prepared meals|prepared food]]s are not subject to wear.) Putting these together, we get - it doesn't matter. I don't believe they do, but ~if~ the plump helmets or jaguar meat were to get worn out - they're still plump helmets or meat, and still just as edible and quality-less as before. (As to the question of where you might have gotten this idea, I got nuthin'.) I think the important phrase is ''"I can't find mention of it anywhere"''. If wear effects food, I have seen no report of it either, anywhere.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:38, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Yeah, I suspect it was a rumour someone started a while back as an explanation for why their food was getting damaged, when in fact it was vermin doing it. At least now I can stop making wacky stockpiles for unbarrelled food. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 05:55, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== Moving only items that are in a bin ==

This is mainly aimed at efficiently moving items to be near the Trade Depot.

What I want to do is designate a mixed stockpile but then say "only bring full bins to this stockpile".

Then I can have stockpiles near each workshop, when a bin is full a hauler comes and does the right thing for me.

It all sounds so easy and logical! Now, is there an easy way to do it? What I am noticing is, if I have

workshop -> stockpile A -> stockpile B -> trade depot

when I put "stockpile B" on "max bins: all squares", then my haulers never bother stopping at Stockpile A with inidividual items they just go

workshop -> haul item -> stockpile B.

[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 08:31, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

40d:River

2009-06-12T05:47:12Z

Wisq: /* Other Important Facts */

== Surface Rivers ==

'''Rivers''' are found on the surface of world maps. They vary in width and depth, some being more wide and some being more deep than others. They often flow through deep canyons or just across the flat surface of a level. On levels with [[cliff]]s, [[waterfall|waterfalls]] may be found.

'''Major rivers, Minor rivers, Streams and Brooks'''''

On the surface of the world you can find four different types of rivers.

*Major Rivers are distinguished by a "=" as opposed to a "-". Some worlds have no Major Rivers so they can be considered quite valuable. Usually they have minor river tributaries and can often feed large [[lake]]s. Major rivers are much wider than regular rivers. Besides this, the difference (if any) between major and minor rivers has yet to be discovered. However major rivers are believed to lower the fps.

*Minor Rivers are dark blue and usually have tributaries of brooks.

*Streams are light blue and often converge with other streams, and have some tributaries of brooks.

*[[Brook]]s are not visible on the region map. They are the smallest flowing body of [[water]] that can be found ingame. Brooks have a special water designation, [[dwarves]] and other units are capable of walking through a brook. Brooks are very common, almost every tile around a stream or larger river will have a brook running through it.

[[Image:Watersystems01.jpg|298px|thumb|Different sorts of rivers in action]]

== Underground Rivers ==

An '''underground river''' is, obviously, a river found [[underground]]. They can be located on the embarkation map pre-[[embark]] through use of the [[site finder]], but are usually invisible until revealed by [[exploratory mining]]. When found, the game will pause and special announcement will be seen.

When an underground river passes thru a [[cave]], that combination is sometimes called a cave river. If your site has a cave river, [[tower-cap]]s will automatically start sprouting in underground [[soil]] or [[mud]]dy caverns, because you have already "discovered" the UG river.

[[Cave spider]]s may occur in and near underground rivers. They leave small webs strewn around any nearby areas, which can be collected and turned into [[silk]].

It is also possible (but unusual) to find underground rivers or pools which are automatically visible, as they are exposed to the surface - you may even see a few [[tower-cap]]s already growing in the area. You can tell it's a cave river/pool because of the distinctive aquatic humanoids such as [[Frogman|frogmen]] or [[olm]]s, and the ever-dangerous [[cave crocodile]]s. An exposed underground river cannot be distinguished from the more typical hidden type during site-selection.

== Other Important Facts ==

*Rivers presumably contain an unlimited amount of water and cannot be drained. They can, however, be dammed if you can *temporarily* drain part of them to 1/7 or less for long enough to install [[floodgate]]s. For some reason, rivers will not overflow floodgates which are blocking them. The water just... stops. This demonstrates one way to drain and dam a river: [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-196-draininganddammingamajorriver-i]. Another way to dam a river is to direct a lava flow into it, producing obsidian in the squares where it encounters water.
*Once dammed, a dry riverbed will refill when it rains, similar to a [[murky pool]].
*Rivers often contain an abundance of [[fishing|fish]], including highly dangerous dwarf-killing fish such as [[carp]], [[Pike (fish)|pike]], [[longnose gar]], etc.

== See also ==

* [[Water]]

{{World}}

[[Category:Map tiles]][[category:Water bodies]][[Category:World]]

40d:River

2009-06-12T05:46:56Z

Wisq: /* Other Important Facts */ Added a new fact discovered in my current playthrough.

== Surface Rivers ==

'''Rivers''' are found on the surface of world maps. They vary in width and depth, some being more wide and some being more deep than others. They often flow through deep canyons or just across the flat surface of a level. On levels with [[cliff]]s, [[waterfall|waterfalls]] may be found.

'''Major rivers, Minor rivers, Streams and Brooks'''''

On the surface of the world you can find four different types of rivers.

*Major Rivers are distinguished by a "=" as opposed to a "-". Some worlds have no Major Rivers so they can be considered quite valuable. Usually they have minor river tributaries and can often feed large [[lake]]s. Major rivers are much wider than regular rivers. Besides this, the difference (if any) between major and minor rivers has yet to be discovered. However major rivers are believed to lower the fps.

*Minor Rivers are dark blue and usually have tributaries of brooks.

*Streams are light blue and often converge with other streams, and have some tributaries of brooks.

*[[Brook]]s are not visible on the region map. They are the smallest flowing body of [[water]] that can be found ingame. Brooks have a special water designation, [[dwarves]] and other units are capable of walking through a brook. Brooks are very common, almost every tile around a stream or larger river will have a brook running through it.

[[Image:Watersystems01.jpg|298px|thumb|Different sorts of rivers in action]]

== Underground Rivers ==

An '''underground river''' is, obviously, a river found [[underground]]. They can be located on the embarkation map pre-[[embark]] through use of the [[site finder]], but are usually invisible until revealed by [[exploratory mining]]. When found, the game will pause and special announcement will be seen.

When an underground river passes thru a [[cave]], that combination is sometimes called a cave river. If your site has a cave river, [[tower-cap]]s will automatically start sprouting in underground [[soil]] or [[mud]]dy caverns, because you have already "discovered" the UG river.

[[Cave spider]]s may occur in and near underground rivers. They leave small webs strewn around any nearby areas, which can be collected and turned into [[silk]].

It is also possible (but unusual) to find underground rivers or pools which are automatically visible, as they are exposed to the surface - you may even see a few [[tower-cap]]s already growing in the area. You can tell it's a cave river/pool because of the distinctive aquatic humanoids such as [[Frogman|frogmen]] or [[olm]]s, and the ever-dangerous [[cave crocodile]]s. An exposed underground river cannot be distinguished from the more typical hidden type during site-selection.

== Other Important Facts ==

*Rivers presumably contain an unlimited amount of water and cannot be drained. They can, however, be dammed if you can *temporarily* drain part of them to 1/7 or less for long enough to install [[floodgate]]s. For some reason, rivers will not overflow floodgates which are blocking them. The water just... stops. This demonstrates one way to drain and dam a river: [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-196-draininganddammingamajorriver-i]. Another way to dam a river is to direct a lava flow into it, producing obsidian in the squares where it encounters water.
*Once dammed, a dry riverbed will refill when it rains like a [[murky pool]].
*Rivers often contain an abundance of [[fishing|fish]], including highly dangerous dwarf-killing fish such as [[carp]], [[Pike (fish)|pike]], [[longnose gar]], etc.

== See also ==

* [[Water]]

{{World}}

[[Category:Map tiles]][[category:Water bodies]][[Category:World]]

40d Talk:Crop

2009-06-12T02:24:39Z

Wisq: /* Can't grow blade weed */

== Winter crops ==
Delving into the raws, it seems some plants can grow in winter. Muck Roots, for instance. We'll need to update the chart to allow this. The chart will, in general, need some work. For instance, Quarry Bushes can only be cooked after they've been processed; how should that be put on the chart? This page can easily be filled in from the raws, but only after the chart is made more comprehensive... [[User:Fieari|Fieari]] 03:24, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
*Stuff like Quarry Bush Leaves can just go in the "Other Uses" column.

== Standardization of individual crop pages ==

I thought the previous wiki had great entries for the individual crops. How can we get the sidebar to appear just like the last wiki?

We should standardize the arrangement of information for the individual crops so that readers can easily obtain information as it is presented in a consistent manner. I think we should also include the basic value of each crop and how it can be multiplied.
--[[User:Rockjianrock|Rockjianrock]] 11:02, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

== Categorized Crops ==

How useful would it be to have a list of crop sorted by standard usage? From all the plants in game, we can easily figure out a few subgroups:

Edible raw (fruits/vegetables? can also be cooked unprocessed)
*Plump helmet
*Muck root
*Bloated tuber
*Prickle berry
*Wild strawberry
*Rat weed
*Fisher berry
*Sun berry

Clothing
*Pig tail
*Rope reed

Flour/Sugars
*Cave wheat
*Longland grass
*Whip vine
*Sweet pod (a special case, has its own workshop action to make syrup)

Leaves (not brewable)
*Quarry bush

Dyes (generally not brewable)
*Dimple cup
*Blade weed
*Hide root
*Sliver barb (also a special case, as it can be brewed. otherwise the same)

Alchemy? (not brewable)
*Kobold bulb
*Valley herb (can be cooked raw?)

I find this list more useful for making complex stockpiles or workflows.. Whether you care if the seeds must be planted underground or above ground, it's a property of the seed stockpile anyway. Note that "cookable" or "brewable" is not a group itself but a simple yes/no flag, but usually a common property of an entire group. Too bad we can't make template stockpiles ;)--[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 13:35, 12 January 2008 (EST)

:The easiest way to do that is by having an article for each crop with (say) [[:Category:Dye crops]] included in the relevant articles.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 21:39, 12 January 2008 (EST)

==Values==
Plump helmets have a value of 4, no? 2 (for being a plant) * 2 (plump helmet value)

Since the brew column uses the value of a single plant, brewed, it would make sense to show the total value of a single plant before brewing, rather than the material multiplier from the raws.

Also, since 5 units of syrup is produced from one sweet pod, shouldn't the value of syrup be listed as 100 instead of 20?

--[[User:Hussell|Hussell]] 16:04, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

== Bloated Tubers grow in ''what?'' ==

How is a dry wetland possible? Are the wet/dry designations referring to whether or not the plant grows next to bodies of water? Might want to clarify that. If so, do aquifers directly below the surface make tiles "wet?" – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Xonara|Xonara]]

:Almost makes one wonder if that table came from DF2D. Research will have to be done on that <_< (PS: remember to sign your edits) --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:05, 19 November 2008 (EST)
::Well, the matgloss ''does'' say [DRY][BIOME:ANY_WETLAND]. We do need to know what exactly [DRY] means. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 21:40, 19 November 2008 (EST)
:::Oh, here we go: [[Plant tokens]] --[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 01:11, 20 November 2008 (EST)

== Crops Table ==

Quick question regarding the nice and shiny table - is the heading row meant to be blacked out or is it some settign on my pc? --[[User:Ustio|Ustio]] 06:29, 20 November 2008 (EST)

What browser are you using? It's a simple bgcolor attribute on the row; that should work fine but I can replace it with a style if not - what does it do now? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:36, 20 November 2008 (EST)

:Internet Explorer 6 (at work shhhhhhh) - whatever chnage you made worked a treat (I'd have made a change but my wikifu is sub-par--[[User:Ustio|Ustio]] 11:08, 20 November 2008 (EST)

== Can't grow blade weed ==

For some reason I seem unable to grow it. Is there something I'm missing? I have seeds and an above-ground plot which is capable of growing the following: – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Rpglover64|Rpglover64]]

*Whip Vines
*Hide root
*Rope reeds
*Fisher berries
*Rat weed
*Longland grass
*Wild strawberries
*Prickle berries
:Check the season. "a", "b", "c", "d". [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 20:48, 18 February 2009 (EST) ▲ Sign your posts! You also may not have any of it! Check for it. 20:54, 18 February 2009 (EST)

Checked each season; the list doesn't change. Checked stocks; I have 20 blade weed seeds.

Shouldn't neither of these two matter, as according to this wiki, blade weed is a season round crop, and you still have the option to plant something even though you don't have the seeds?

:[[User:Rpglover64|Rpglover64]] 01:26, 19 February 2009 (EST)

I had the same problem as you, but my fort files got corrupted and I had to start a new one. I'll check and see if I can plant it.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 05:33, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

I know I'm a few months late on this, but in case anyone else has this problem, try moving the selector down to the bottom selection, and hit down again. It should have a continuation of that list. This has happened to me before, so it may be the problem here. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 17:57, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

:Having read all the relevant articles, I'm still not clear on one aspect: Does your biome / surroundings limit what you can '''grow''' (farm plot), or only what you can '''find''' (shrubs)? Because certain crops seem to be ungrowable in my current game, and they do seem to generally correspond to things I wouldn't be able to find in my biome. If it really does limit what you can grow, then that could explain the problem above. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 02:24, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

== Why does the page look so bad?? ==

There seems to be a problem with the stuff on the page, and all the pictures are chunks of words. Some plants also seem to be missing.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 05:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

:There's a lot of pages like that because the wiki has been having script issues. There's some discussion about it on the main page's talk page. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 19:52, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

== Seasons and Cavernous flora ==

Does it seem strange to anyone else how '''ALL''' plantable outside crops can be planted year-round, while there's only one underground crop with that capability? Shouldn't it be the other way around? If you're bugged by this as much as I am, you can just change the raws. All I've done so far is make all subterranean crops plantable all year. Also, I may change most or all outside crops in my raws to be non-winter. Hopefully you guys can help find a more realistic planting pattern. Feedback, please. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 18:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Dam

2009-06-11T18:51:59Z

Wisq:

This article should be deleted for the same reason "Rock chute" was. It is an application of the material given in the wiki. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 00:06, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Maybe - but where else is someone going to find ''specific'' information about this? Browsing through the map archive will only show basic dam construction and give no specific details. Isn't it basically the same as [[Design strategies]]? --[[User:Decanter|Decanter]] 00:14, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Before looking at this page, I had no idea we could make dams and such... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)

If nothing else we should save the information about excavating the river tiles, I had no idea you needed to do this and I'm sure most people wouldn't either. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 09:54, 17 November 2007 (EST)

This article should definitely be kept. It does not belong with [[design strategies]], and provides useful information. There is no reason to delete it. I agree with Eagle of Fire. [[User:Nate879|Nate879]] 16:37, 9 February 2008 (EST)

Deletionists here, too? Why would you want to ''decrease'' the amount of information regarding Dwarf Fortress? I can see an argument for better organization, moves, or whatever, but certainly not deleting it. And here I had made an account to create an article for how to build an aqueduct from a river to a well or series of wells using locks. --[[User:Hilscher|Hilscher]] 14:25, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

:Which I'm now discouraged to do after seeing this, I just realized. Why put in the work if it will just get deleted? Deletionism hurts everyone. --[[User:Hilscher|Hilscher]] 14:28, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

== Ice Damming ==

I'm not sure if I screwed it up in some way, but I dug a channel in the ice, put in 4 floodgates across the river (which is 4 wide) and when it thawed it was not a dam, the water after the floodgates is 4 or 5/7, maybe its cause its a newer version and he added over filling. --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 00:34, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
Or never mind, its starting to go dry now, guess I just needed to be patient.

== Notes on water wheels as pump power in draining ==

(To the deletionists, this article was very helpful in showing that daming was even possible and the basic technique to do it. Rather than cramming it into a larger and amorphous "design" article, it is definitely a subject in and of itself).

My dwarves undertook the task of daming their river (the Sibrek Babinnish Memorial Dam) in an effort to tame the mighty carp and lamprey which had claimed a dwarf and two more in the process of (but unrelated to) building the dam. Wall grates were planned to be installed just downstream of the dam and then the dam reopened to allow the river to flow but the dreaded fish to remain jailed.

The plan was to use water wheel powered screw pumps to pump out the river into an underground pit faster than I could come in. Its simpler and safer than digging up into the river bed, and you can turn it off. Here is a side view.

pump
============X river
XundergroundX
XXXXpitXXXXXX

The pit wasn't very large, perhaps 60x20x2, and dug into sand and clay (surface river) which three miners excavated quickly and without all the rock hauling. It proved sufficient, with just enough extra capacity to give me the time to fix my mistakes.

Because mistakes were made.

First mistake, I only put pumps on one side of the river. This was a consequence of the project starting early. You see, my engraver got pulled into the river and was drowning. In a vain attempt to save him my mechanic hooked up the pumps before the project was complete. I made up for it in scale with 5 pumps lining the river's edge. Two more were hastily erected on the other side and manned by stout dwarves. Alas, his wounds were too grave and he did not survive.

Once the pumps started water sprayed all over the place but mostly went into the pit as planned.

Second mistake, I had no way to get into the river bed. Hastily cut stairs and ramps took care of that.

Committed now, dwarves poured into the frothing water to try and place the gates, but the water level was fluctuating too rapidly. Eventually I noticed the cause, the pumps were inactive! I had located my water wheel downstream of the pumps and too close. The water level under the wheel was dropping, shutting down the wheel and the pumps, then rising again starting the cycle again. Dwarves were called in to man the pumps by hand. In this way the flood gates were placed, with a very fast hand on the "unsuspend construction" order.

Glory of glories, most of the pitiless fish downstream drowned. Only a handful remained upstream at the source (which I thought was the terminus), but enough to claim my sheriff who was pulled in and drowned.

Lessons learned...

1) Screw pumps on either side of the river, powered by water wheels, are an easy way to drain a surface river. 3 to 5 on each side should be enough.

2) Water wheels must be placed upstream and at least 5 or 10 tiles away from the pumps to prevent the water level from dropping under them.

3) Make sure you know which way the river flows. How? Blood works. How do you get blood in the river? Be imaginative.

4) A slit trench dug directly behind the pumps leading to a modest underground cistern is enough water storage. Use of channeling and digging into sand or clay will make the work go faster. Dig a little bit more than you think you'll need, then dig some more.

5) Have extra manpower available to man the pumps should something go wrong.

6) Have a miner on hand to make sure you have a way into the river bed.

6a) Do not dig the entrance on the same line as your dams or you'll have to dam up an extra tile. Trust me, you'll be fighting for every gate.

6b) Put an exit up AND downstream from the dam so nobody gets trapped when the last gate goes in place.

6c) Put the exits on the far side from your fortress so should a baddie manage to get into the river they won't come out on your side.

7) Place a stockpile of pump parts, flood gates and mechanisms near the dam site to speed construction.

8) Hook up your pumps with a gear assembly and either attach it to a lever or be ready to dismantle it to shut the system down.

9) Don't let dwarves with kids into the river bed.

10) Install wall grates across the river just below your dam, then look the up to a lever. This will act as a selective fish filter.
10a) If you want to be sadistic, build a second grate further downstream. Leave it closed. Open the dam and upstream grate, let some fish swim in, then close the dam. Watch the now trapped fish slowly drown or pump the water out for a quicker death.

11) Once the dam is installed, leave it closed and have your dwarves go "fishing" by picking up all the now drowning fish downstream from the dam. Fish corpses are handed by a butcher, not at the fishery, so be prepared for a huge influx of raw meat.

12) Dismantle the pumps and water wheel once you're done to reuse the parts. Remember to dismantle the wheel before the axle or it'll fall into the river.

The picture in this article makes it look like this river was dammed by building floor tiles across it. I'm new to Dwarf Fortress; is this how it works? The later parts of the article seem to imply that you have to build *wall* tiles across the level which *contains* the water? Is there nothing you can do from ground-level? (floors, walls, floodgates, etc.).

I guess it seems like the unspoken assumption of the article is "the difficult part of damming a river is that you can't do anything from the riverbank". I think that stating this explicitly might make the article clearer. -- [[User:Creidieki|Creidieki]] 22:25, 2 March 2009 (EST)

:Wall tiles look like floor tiles when viewed from one level higher. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 18:51, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Dam

2009-06-11T18:51:12Z

Wisq:

This article should be deleted for the same reason "Rock chute" was. It is an application of the material given in the wiki. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 00:06, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Maybe - but where else is someone going to find ''specific'' information about this? Browsing through the map archive will only show basic dam construction and give no specific details. Isn't it basically the same as [[Design strategies]]? --[[User:Decanter|Decanter]] 00:14, 6 November 2007 (EST)

Before looking at this page, I had no idea we could make dams and such... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:07, 12 November 2007 (EST)

If nothing else we should save the information about excavating the river tiles, I had no idea you needed to do this and I'm sure most people wouldn't either. --[[User:BurnedToast|BurnedToast]] 09:54, 17 November 2007 (EST)

This article should definitely be kept. It does not belong with [[design strategies]], and provides useful information. There is no reason to delete it. I agree with Eagle of Fire. [[User:Nate879|Nate879]] 16:37, 9 February 2008 (EST)

Deletionists here, too? Why would you want to ''decrease'' the amount of information regarding Dwarf Fortress? I can see an argument for better organization, moves, or whatever, but certainly not deleting it. And here I had made an account to create an article for how to build an aqueduct from a river to a well or series of wells using locks. --[[User:Hilscher|Hilscher]] 14:25, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

:Which I'm now discouraged to do after seeing this, I just realized. Why put in the work if it will just get deleted? Deletionism hurts everyone. --[[User:Hilscher|Hilscher]] 14:28, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

== Ice Damming ==

I'm not sure if I screwed it up in some way, but I dug a channel in the ice, put in 4 floodgates across the river (which is 4 wide) and when it thawed it was not a dam, the water after the floodgates is 4 or 5/7, maybe its cause its a newer version and he added over filling. --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 00:34, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
Or never mind, its starting to go dry now, guess I just needed to be patient.

== Notes on water wheels as pump power in draining ==

(To the deletionists, this article was very helpful in showing that daming was even possible and the basic technique to do it. Rather than cramming it into a larger and amorphous "design" article, it is definitely a subject in and of itself).

My dwarves undertook the task of daming their river (the Sibrek Babinnish Memorial Dam) in an effort to tame the mighty carp and lamprey which had claimed a dwarf and two more in the process of (but unrelated to) building the dam. Wall grates were planned to be installed just downstream of the dam and then the dam reopened to allow the river to flow but the dreaded fish to remain jailed.

The plan was to use water wheel powered screw pumps to pump out the river into an underground pit faster than I could come in. Its simpler and safer than digging up into the river bed, and you can turn it off. Here is a side view.

pump
============X river
XundergroundX
XXXXpitXXXXXX

The pit wasn't very large, perhaps 60x20x2, and dug into sand and clay (surface river) which three miners excavated quickly and without all the rock hauling. It proved sufficient, with just enough extra capacity to give me the time to fix my mistakes.

Because mistakes were made.

First mistake, I only put pumps on one side of the river. This was a consequence of the project starting early. You see, my engraver got pulled into the river and was drowning. In a vain attempt to save him my mechanic hooked up the pumps before the project was complete. I made up for it in scale with 5 pumps lining the river's edge. Two more were hastily erected on the other side and manned by stout dwarves. Alas, his wounds were too grave and he did not survive.

Once the pumps started water sprayed all over the place but mostly went into the pit as planned.

Second mistake, I had no way to get into the river bed. Hastily cut stairs and ramps took care of that.

Committed now, dwarves poured into the frothing water to try and place the gates, but the water level was fluctuating too rapidly. Eventually I noticed the cause, the pumps were inactive! I had located my water wheel downstream of the pumps and too close. The water level under the wheel was dropping, shutting down the wheel and the pumps, then rising again starting the cycle again. Dwarves were called in to man the pumps by hand. In this way the flood gates were placed, with a very fast hand on the "unsuspend construction" order.

Glory of glories, most of the pitiless fish downstream drowned. Only a handful remained upstream at the source (which I thought was the terminus), but enough to claim my sheriff who was pulled in and drowned.

Lessons learned...

1) Screw pumps on either side of the river, powered by water wheels, are an easy way to drain a surface river. 3 to 5 on each side should be enough.

2) Water wheels must be placed upstream and at least 5 or 10 tiles away from the pumps to prevent the water level from dropping under them.

3) Make sure you know which way the river flows. How? Blood works. How do you get blood in the river? Be imaginative.

4) A slit trench dug directly behind the pumps leading to a modest underground cistern is enough water storage. Use of channeling and digging into sand or clay will make the work go faster. Dig a little bit more than you think you'll need, then dig some more.

5) Have extra manpower available to man the pumps should something go wrong.

6) Have a miner on hand to make sure you have a way into the river bed.

6a) Do not dig the entrance on the same line as your dams or you'll have to dam up an extra tile. Trust me, you'll be fighting for every gate.

6b) Put an exit up AND downstream from the dam so nobody gets trapped when the last gate goes in place.

6c) Put the exits on the far side from your fortress so should a baddie manage to get into the river they won't come out on your side.

7) Place a stockpile of pump parts, flood gates and mechanisms near the dam site to speed construction.

8) Hook up your pumps with a gear assembly and either attach it to a lever or be ready to dismantle it to shut the system down.

9) Don't let dwarves with kids into the river bed.

10) Install wall grates across the river just below your dam, then look the up to a lever. This will act as a selective fish filter.
10a) If you want to be sadistic, build a second grate further downstream. Leave it closed. Open the dam and upstream grate, let some fish swim in, then close the dam. Watch the now trapped fish slowly drown or pump the water out for a quicker death.

11) Once the dam is installed, leave it closed and have your dwarves go "fishing" by picking up all the now drowning fish downstream from the dam. Fish corpses are handed by a butcher, not at the fishery, so be prepared for a huge influx of raw meat.

12) Dismantle the pumps and water wheel once you're done to reuse the parts. Remember to dismantle the wheel before the axle or it'll fall into the river.

The picture in this article makes it look like this river was dammed by building floor tiles across it. I'm new to Dwarf Fortress; is this how it works? The later parts of the article seem to imply that you have to build *wall* tiles across the level which *contains* the water? Is there nothing you can do from ground-level? (floors, walls, floodgates, etc.).

:Wall tiles look like floor tiles when viewed from one level higher. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 18:51, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I guess it seems like the unspoken assumption of the article is "the difficult part of damming a river is that you can't do anything from the riverbank". I think that stating this explicitly might make the article clearer. -- [[User:Creidieki|Creidieki]] 22:25, 2 March 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Standing orders

2009-06-10T23:28:43Z

Wisq:

<blockquote>
* {{K|m}} toggles whether different types of food should be mixed when [[cook|cooking]]
</blockquote>
I do not think the toggle affects ingredients while cooking, but whether different foods are mixed in barrels on the stockpile. Toggled on would mean a Plant Barrel could contain Plump Helmets, and Dimple Cups, and other plants together. Toggled off would mean the Barrels are restricted to a certain food. Instead of a Plant Barrel, it would be a Plump Helmet Barrel and a Dimple Cup Barrel.--[[User:Yggiz|Yggiz]] 04:08, 28 January 2008 (EST)
:"By default, dwarves will put all meats in a "meat barrel" and all plants in a "plant barrel", for example. If you'd like them to separate foods out more specifically, you can do that here." - that's from manual.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:28, 28 January 2008 (EST)

==Dwarves All Harvest/Only Farmers Harvest==
1) Why isn't this option mentioned in the article?

2) Does turning "Only farmers harvest" on mean children will stop harvesting too? --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 04:29, 5 May 2008 (EDT)
:I don't know why it's not mentioned, but I'm sure children (and nobles) will stop harvesting if you turn it on. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 07:47, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

== Soldiers and Children wandering outside ==

I set the "Dwarves stay inside" order on, and my soldiers and children won't stay in, i was trying to lock it after they went in, but on would always stay outside... anyone know if this is a bug or something? I looked in the known bugs and issues, but i could only find "added short distance search for stay inside order"..
any ideas with this? [[User:Wizjany|Wizjany]] 21:44, 10 October 2008 (EDT)
:I just noticed something like this. I'd opened my "traders' back door" and locked the traders' air lock (to keep siege goblins out) to let them in and Ordered all my dwarves to stay inside to avoid the sieging goblins coming at the other side of the fortress (where the front door is). Some kids and other dwarves still went outside. They all had "Bring Item to Depot" or another item-moving task active and were going out the front door (right into the goblins) and trying to walk around the fortress to the back door. My guess is that if the destination is Subterranean (which my Depot is) the path won't register as going through a "forbidden" area, and dwarves will use that path despite a Stay Inside order. [[User:Bitbender|Bitbender]] 05:12, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
::I believe that the dwarves do not check for outside while pathing. They only check while they are moving. They can and will do a strange entrance dance when they realize that they shouldn't be outside, turn around, job check, oh look a shiny, oh no i'm outside, turn around, job check, ... --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 14:32, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
:::There was no entrance dance in this case: they just went straight for the great, goblin-infested outdoors. I think you're right that they don't check while pathing, but I think it's more complicated than just "am I outdoors". There's probably some code that lets them path through the outside so long as their destination is inside, otherwise they'd have problems coming in from the outdoors when the Stay Inside order is given. [[User:Bitbender|Bitbender]] 19:01, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I was caught out by "inside" actually meaning "underground" in this version. After me spending years building a roof over my trade depot/ballistae, nobody shows up to fire them at the goblin hordes. The dogs and cats did a fine job, but next fortress I'm just building more lockable doors. --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 21:48, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

== Traders and Orders ==
I had my first goblin ambush today! Things went almost exactly as planned, with my Hall Of Death eating half of them before the rest fled, but I noticed something weird: When I ordered everyone inside, the elven traders left the depot and went too! Were they actually following dwarven orders, or were they just taking cover of their own account? [[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 13:35, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

:During my most recent siege, the elves all clustered at the back of my depot cavern, so it looks like they try to run away of their own accord. The goblins were quite nearby at the time, though, so it may have been the proximity of the goblins, not the fact of the siege that got them on the run.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:46, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

== "Zone-only" not working? ==

I just had a bunch of dwarves get slaughtered by carp because we ran out of booze and they ignored my zone-only drinking order. The only safe water I could mark was a nearby murky pool. If they spotted the hostiles and got interrupted a few times, they would eventually drink from the pool (and be pissed off about it), but it wouldn't stop them from at least trying to drink from the river first. What gives? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 23:28, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Sheriff

2009-06-09T23:45:25Z

Wisq:

Will anyone be unhappy if there is no sheriff/fortress guards? My new fortress is 93 dwarves large, and they seem to be just so happy (ecstatic really) without one. The dwarveses were much more upset with sheriff.
[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:57, 8 January 2008 (EST)
:One of the problems with not having a sheriff would be leaving the actual troublemakers free for the sake of saving a few innocents. As the game progresses, the dwarves that anger easily or cannot handle stress will become increasingly likely to tantrum in times of strife, possibly upsetting other dwarves in the process. You must judge for yourself if protecting honest dwarves from unreasonable noble demands is worth letting potential murderers/vandals run wild. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 02:56, 9 January 2008 (EST)
::OK, understood. For murderers and vandals I prefer having a couple dozens war dogs, who will never hurt innocent ;) [[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:01, 9 January 2008 (EST)

Does anybody know what the relevant skills are for a sheriff? [[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 09:28, 13 February 2008 (EST)

:Most definitely none. But it won't hurt if he's melee military or wrestler, i would expect --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:21, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

::Um. Having a sheriff good at melee will most definitely "hurt". I once took a fortress that had never had a sheriff (many, many failed mandates) and experimentally made one of my legendary hammerdwarves the sheriff. He proceeded to kill or terminally cripple every "criminal" in the fort, including some other military dwarves in full steel plate. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 23:44, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

== armor stands ==

i just got a sheriff and i gave him everthing he needs, but when i check his profile, it said he needed an armor stand and a weapon stand. I gave those things to him and activated their rooms but it said he still needed them. Do I free them and put them in his room? --[[User:0todd0|0todd0]] 20:36, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:When someone requests an armor stand/weapon rack in their needs, they do not want you to assign it to a room. You must place this IN THEIR BEDROOM!
:Make sure it's in their bedroom space and put it in there. Same goes for chests/cabinets.
:--[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:28, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::You can place them in any room assigned to them, so you can place the armor stand in their office or dining room in addition to their bedroom. [[User:Db48x|Db48x]] 05:18, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Sheriff

2009-06-09T23:44:51Z

Wisq:

Will anyone be unhappy if there is no sheriff/fortress guards? My new fortress is 93 dwarves large, and they seem to be just so happy (ecstatic really) without one. The dwarveses were much more upset with sheriff.
[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:57, 8 January 2008 (EST)
:One of the problems with not having a sheriff would be leaving the actual troublemakers free for the sake of saving a few innocents. As the game progresses, the dwarves that anger easily or cannot handle stress will become increasingly likely to tantrum in times of strife, possibly upsetting other dwarves in the process. You must judge for yourself if protecting honest dwarves from unreasonable noble demands is worth letting potential murderers/vandals run wild. --[[User:Jackard|Jackard]] 02:56, 9 January 2008 (EST)
::OK, understood. For murderers and vandals I prefer having a couple dozens war dogs, who will never hurt innocent ;) [[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:01, 9 January 2008 (EST)

Does anybody know what the relevant skills are for a sheriff? [[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 09:28, 13 February 2008 (EST)

:Most definitely none. But it won't hurt if he's melee military or wrestler, i would expect --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:21, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

::Um. Having a sheriff good at melee will most definitely "hurt". I once took a fortress that had never had a sheriff (many, many criminals) and experimentally made one of my legendary hammerdwarves the sheriff. He proceeded to kill or terminally cripple every criminal in the fort, including some other military dwarves in full steel plate. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 23:44, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

== armor stands ==

i just got a sheriff and i gave him everthing he needs, but when i check his profile, it said he needed an armor stand and a weapon stand. I gave those things to him and activated their rooms but it said he still needed them. Do I free them and put them in his room? --[[User:0todd0|0todd0]] 20:36, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

:When someone requests an armor stand/weapon rack in their needs, they do not want you to assign it to a room. You must place this IN THEIR BEDROOM!
:Make sure it's in their bedroom space and put it in there. Same goes for chests/cabinets.
:--[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:28, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::You can place them in any room assigned to them, so you can place the armor stand in their office or dining room in addition to their bedroom. [[User:Db48x|Db48x]] 05:18, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Children

2009-06-09T04:32:11Z

Wisq: /* What the heck, children can be assigned jobs? */

Dwarves will get married? I thought only immigrants could be married, when the arive at the fort?

– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Doler 12|Doler 12]]

Dunno about that! but I did rewrite the article. Hope the formal wikipedia style isn't too far out of whack here, [[User talk:GarrieIrons|slap me]] if I need it.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:19, 5 February 2008 (EST)

:Dwarves can get married at any point, if they like each other enough. Does anyone know if dwarves will ever not 'forgo any formal arrangements'? Someone better than me should write a marriage page. --[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 12:27, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

::see [[Marriage]] [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 13:16, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

== out of date ==

relationships and marriage has been added recently, so this ought to updated to reflect the new, less mysterious process.

== How many children again? ==
Hmmm 25 children and only 10 dwarves... Maybe unleashing that dragon was a bad idea.
:You think that's bad? 241 dwarves, 70 children. I'm making an entire village outside for all of them... when you hit the pop cap, they keep having babies (until 100 if the init.txt is unedited), but you get no actual labor from migrants. It's getting exceptionally annoying in here... 12 years in game, and only 2 children have graduated to peasants. --Gotthard 12:11, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== kids and alcohol ==

gotta love em when they lift up the whole 56 weight barrel... and thats from as young at two as well ^_^ [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 08:53, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:The newborns in my fortress "need alcohol to get through the working day". Must come from their mum the Mayor being still on active duty and having one baby per year every year of the fortress so far. Kinda sucks that my most reliable means of "alcohol production" so far is trading in "narrow giant cave spider silk socks (600)" for sly grog!09:07, 29 June 2008 (EDT)
::Actually the quote from the (I guess toddler) is "She needs alcohol to get through the working day and has gone without a drink for far, far too long"![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:09, 29 June 2008 (EDT)

==child abuse?==

my child has a broken upper leg... idk how it happened :( my guess is one of its parents hit it really hard, or one of them sat/laid on top of it in bed - that family often has all four of them in the same bed. [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 08:48, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

<nowiki>:(</nowiki> nobody wanted to feed the kid, or bring it water, so it went melancholy within a year. [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 10:15, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

== Noble children don't become nobles right? ==

I was amazed a noble gave birth. I want princesses and princes, even though they will have beards.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 21:17, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
:I've not seen it personally, but the exact opposite is said to be the case. Due to a dwarf's value being set in an economy by how much work they do and their children's value supposedly being a function of both their parent's until they come of age, Noble children end up being paupers since their parents don't need to do any work/get stuff for free for merely being nobles. --[[User:Kyace|Kyace]] 07:05, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

== Happy to be free ==

I recently had a kidnapper make off with a baby (despite the only entrance to my fort being cage-trapped - NB. it is not safe for baby-carrying women to be Mechanics!), and the child in question currently has a single thought: "She is happy to be free.". Free from the oppressive shackles of dwarven society, I guess. Perhaps the goblins make more toys than I do! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 15:22, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

: Maybe it's just a "joke" from Toady. Or maybe the baby manage to escape the goblin's lair, but it seems strange in the current version (38c).

:: I just had one kidnapped and was expecting the parents to get a negative thought. (didn't see one) And I also saw the happy to be free bit under the child. When i zoomed to it though it showed the spot where the kidnapping took place. Probably a bug.--[[User:Silver|Silver]] 15:41, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

:I actually believe this is a way to stabilize the child's mood so it doesn't abruptly throw a tantrum when kidnapped and break something. Happy to be free is an outstandingly powerful happy thought (+1000 where ecstatic is +50), usually used to give people a break from unhappy prisoners getting out of jail. By tacking on happy to be free, Toady is essentially locking in the child's mood so it behaves predictably helplessly when kidnapped. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:20, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::I noticed the "happy to be free" thought in a baby that was actually freed after its kidnapper was taken down by dogs. (It happened automatically once the bag was dropped.) Maybe generating the happy thought before it gets out of the bag is just a bug.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:09, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== Child production ==

Hmm, seems that idle dwarves gave birth to more baby than others. I've got a nervous system-injured dwarf that do nothing else that wander in the meeting hall, and she have 4 children. It should be related to the relationships, because this dwarf is competent in all the the relationship skills... anyone can confirm ? (sorry for my imperfect english) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 10:12, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
:I also have a nervous system-injured dwarf wounded from sparring who's beginning to have children. She's the only one so far with the injury or children. --[[User:FloodSpectre|FloodSpectre]] 17:28, 24 August 2008 (EDT)
:My duchess has had 6 children so far, and she sits around all day whining for more platinum items. My legendary siege builder had no children until she hit legendary (and now does nothing) and started to have kids. However, I have had kinds from my 2 miners (whi NEVER stop mining) but they seem to stick at one until it gets to child status, and then have another. --Gotthard 12:13, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== Triplets... ==

Small fortress, 50 dwarves and suddenly "Tirist Dwarfeddwarves has given birth to triplets"... Of course it was military dwarfess... The article page says nothing about huge dwarven litters. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 11:19, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

== Unusual Family Structures ==

Playing in Adventure mode, I asked a child about his family. He told me about his grandmother, who moved to some city in some year, and later slew a wolf. Then the child added, "She is also my aunt." o.O --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 16:04, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== Children strenght ? ==

Are children -not only dwarves but all creatures- weaker than the adults ? It seem logical, but I've never read anything about it. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 04:23, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:The only way I can think to test it is to have your dwarves haul some heavy things (>2000Γ) to the depot and see if the children do it slower than the adults. My bet would be no, though if not, Toady's bound to fix it sooner or later.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:17, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:: Well, by strenght, I also meant damage resistance and etc... eg ; is a puppy less resistant than a dog ? Is a young giant eagle less deadly than a full-grown one ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 18:27, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:::(jarred memory) Oh yes -- children are about 2/3s the size of adults (going by how much meat you get from butchering them), and size is a big factor in combat. So, yes, children are weaker.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:15, 2 November 2008 (EST)

:I don't think there is much difference, my chilren at 'superdwarvenly tough' seem to take as many iron bolts to die a their older relatives. I've had a couple of my children (of which I have 90+) fight off Goblins in hand-to-hand combat, but they won't engage unless they are caught. Frankly, overall children will end up BEING stronger, stat wise, due to talking all the time, compared with older folk who have jobs, but that is not inherent to children themselves. --Gotthard 22:57, 2 November 2008 (EST)

== "abandoned" baby ==

Can a baby die of starvation/thirst if the mother is injured and unable to retrieve them? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 17:02, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:I don't believe babies receive food or drink at all (this leads to the "has not had a drink in far too long" message by the end of their infancy). It's possible that would change when the baby is not carried by the mother, but frankly, I'd be surprised.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:14, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== No Profession? ==

One of my children finally grew up to be a real, manly, dwarf farmer. Except that, despite having proficient skill in growing, he is considered a peasant. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 14:13, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:Hm. I remember in older versions my harvesting children, upon reaching adulthood, became farmers. Does he have Proficient or higher [[broker skills]]? Once his farming skill exceeds them, his profession ought to change.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:37, 11 November 2008 (EST)

::His highest broker skill is competent intimidation. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 14:59, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:::Confirmation, I have a peasant former-child who has novice grower and has not become a farmer. He has higher social skills of course, but that never interfered with the promotion of regular peasants to other professions afaik. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:58, 4 December 2008 (EST)

:::Update: said peasant became a grower when his Siege Operating reached novice... despite them both being the same level... I don't get it... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:33, 4 December 2008 (EST)

:If you use Dwarf Manager to set a fast-levelling labour on a child, like Pump Operating, you can actually end up with a Legendary Pump Operator "peasant" who still has the peasant cyan colour and even flashes appropriately. My theory is that the game recalculates the appropriate label for a dwarf each time they gain a level in any skill, just in case it's changed. Hence, getting any further skills of any sort will readjust them appropriately. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 04:27, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

== The bones of the young ==

How many bones do you get from a dwarven baby? This seems odd and I find no page for the "baby" dwarf here on the wiki so.. it's like this:

The baby and her mother were attacked by goblins. An arrow tore the babys hand clean off and then they killed the mother and the child. I always (f)orbid the dwarves from touching the corpses after they're buried since I suspect they will steal the bones and make bolts out of them. Now I noticed that for some reason in the baby grave there is 1 skull and 2 bones. Does the body give 1 bone and the hand 1? Or does the body give 2 and they never retrieved the hand?
Is this all a bug? [[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 03:48, 23 December 2008 (EDT)

:The current understanding is that young creatures have 2/3s the size (and therefore bones) of adults. Babies might be distinct from children, however -- 1/3 size? That would make dwarven babies size 2, 'cause adult dwarves are size 6.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:25, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::That makes sense. Thanks! - [[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 06:48, 23 December 2008 (EDT)

:As for forbidding the corpses, I don't believe this is necessary. Dwarves will only make bolts and totems and stuff out of "refuse" bones, whereas dwarves and pets are considered "graveyard" (or coffin) bones and will not be used. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 04:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

== Birthdays? ==

Is there any way to determine the birth date of a Dwarf, short of writing it down manually when a child is born? The information must be stored by the game, since infants do become children and then adults. I've been unable to find anything more specific that the relationship tags (''younger'' brother, ''oldest'' daughter, etc.), which are pretty vague.

And are children more likely to organize parties near their birthday? --[[User:Oddrune|Oddrune]] 15:30, 5 February 2009 (EST)

== Nudists ==

I took a look at the children in my fort and noticed that they are all '''NAKED'''. 
Perhaps it should be added to the article? The only things the children had in their inventory was mud, vomit and blood splatter. Which I guess means they hang around the barracks alot. --[[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 00:05, 8 February 2009 (CET)

== Can't change parent's jobs ==

When there's a dwarf you want to change a job on, but she's carrying a baby, you can't access her v->p menu.The baby's v->p menu takes precendence. Is this an oversight? [[User:Blargityblarg|Blargityblarg]] 09:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
:Press v again, this should switch to the mother instead of her baby. When there are multiple creatures layered on top of each other, pressing v should switch between them. Unless you are doing that and it is happening as you described. The Dwarfmanager utility can help you out here if you want to use it. --[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 12:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

== What the heck, children can be assigned jobs? ==
I don't know whether this is a fluke or what, but after using Dwarf Manager to assign all dwarves the masonry task to quickly complete something and after I did that, I noticed that two of the kids were working in the masonry shop. If you don't believe me, look at the screenshot. No idea if this is a bug/exploit or what. I'm not planning on keeping the jobs there on the kids once that quick project is done. I checked again after that workshop task was done and they apparently will do a workshop task but not the construct wall/floor. It most likely has to do with the coding that allow them to use a workshop when in a mood.
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/smjjames/Untitled-6.png[/IMG]

I don't know how to get images up here properly though.--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 23:34, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:In my experience, children are basically just dwarves with their labour screen disabled and most of their labours disabled as well. So yes, you can make them do all kinds of things: Hauling, fishing, working in workshops, etc. Personally, I order them to do nothing but work the pumps until adulthood, so they'll be ready for speedy hauling duty by the time they grow up.

:Dwarf Manager is a memory hacking tool, and should be treated as such — i.e. while most of what it does is provide shortcuts to things you could do in-game, it's not going to prevent you from doing certain things that would indeed be considered cheating. You can set labours on pretty much anything friendly: Children, babies, nobles, heroes/champions (not that they'll do anything since you can't undraft them), etc. It simply doesn't discriminate between what you should and shouldn't be able to tweak. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 04:32, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Children

2009-06-09T04:27:25Z

Wisq: /* No Profession? */

Dwarves will get married? I thought only immigrants could be married, when the arive at the fort?

– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Doler 12|Doler 12]]

Dunno about that! but I did rewrite the article. Hope the formal wikipedia style isn't too far out of whack here, [[User talk:GarrieIrons|slap me]] if I need it.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:19, 5 February 2008 (EST)

:Dwarves can get married at any point, if they like each other enough. Does anyone know if dwarves will ever not 'forgo any formal arrangements'? Someone better than me should write a marriage page. --[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 12:27, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

::see [[Marriage]] [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 13:16, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

== out of date ==

relationships and marriage has been added recently, so this ought to updated to reflect the new, less mysterious process.

== How many children again? ==
Hmmm 25 children and only 10 dwarves... Maybe unleashing that dragon was a bad idea.
:You think that's bad? 241 dwarves, 70 children. I'm making an entire village outside for all of them... when you hit the pop cap, they keep having babies (until 100 if the init.txt is unedited), but you get no actual labor from migrants. It's getting exceptionally annoying in here... 12 years in game, and only 2 children have graduated to peasants. --Gotthard 12:11, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== kids and alcohol ==

gotta love em when they lift up the whole 56 weight barrel... and thats from as young at two as well ^_^ [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 08:53, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:The newborns in my fortress "need alcohol to get through the working day". Must come from their mum the Mayor being still on active duty and having one baby per year every year of the fortress so far. Kinda sucks that my most reliable means of "alcohol production" so far is trading in "narrow giant cave spider silk socks (600)" for sly grog!09:07, 29 June 2008 (EDT)
::Actually the quote from the (I guess toddler) is "She needs alcohol to get through the working day and has gone without a drink for far, far too long"![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:09, 29 June 2008 (EDT)

==child abuse?==

my child has a broken upper leg... idk how it happened :( my guess is one of its parents hit it really hard, or one of them sat/laid on top of it in bed - that family often has all four of them in the same bed. [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 08:48, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

<nowiki>:(</nowiki> nobody wanted to feed the kid, or bring it water, so it went melancholy within a year. [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 10:15, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

== Noble children don't become nobles right? ==

I was amazed a noble gave birth. I want princesses and princes, even though they will have beards.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 21:17, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
:I've not seen it personally, but the exact opposite is said to be the case. Due to a dwarf's value being set in an economy by how much work they do and their children's value supposedly being a function of both their parent's until they come of age, Noble children end up being paupers since their parents don't need to do any work/get stuff for free for merely being nobles. --[[User:Kyace|Kyace]] 07:05, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

== Happy to be free ==

I recently had a kidnapper make off with a baby (despite the only entrance to my fort being cage-trapped - NB. it is not safe for baby-carrying women to be Mechanics!), and the child in question currently has a single thought: "She is happy to be free.". Free from the oppressive shackles of dwarven society, I guess. Perhaps the goblins make more toys than I do! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 15:22, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

: Maybe it's just a "joke" from Toady. Or maybe the baby manage to escape the goblin's lair, but it seems strange in the current version (38c).

:: I just had one kidnapped and was expecting the parents to get a negative thought. (didn't see one) And I also saw the happy to be free bit under the child. When i zoomed to it though it showed the spot where the kidnapping took place. Probably a bug.--[[User:Silver|Silver]] 15:41, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

:I actually believe this is a way to stabilize the child's mood so it doesn't abruptly throw a tantrum when kidnapped and break something. Happy to be free is an outstandingly powerful happy thought (+1000 where ecstatic is +50), usually used to give people a break from unhappy prisoners getting out of jail. By tacking on happy to be free, Toady is essentially locking in the child's mood so it behaves predictably helplessly when kidnapped. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:20, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::I noticed the "happy to be free" thought in a baby that was actually freed after its kidnapper was taken down by dogs. (It happened automatically once the bag was dropped.) Maybe generating the happy thought before it gets out of the bag is just a bug.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:09, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== Child production ==

Hmm, seems that idle dwarves gave birth to more baby than others. I've got a nervous system-injured dwarf that do nothing else that wander in the meeting hall, and she have 4 children. It should be related to the relationships, because this dwarf is competent in all the the relationship skills... anyone can confirm ? (sorry for my imperfect english) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 10:12, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
:I also have a nervous system-injured dwarf wounded from sparring who's beginning to have children. She's the only one so far with the injury or children. --[[User:FloodSpectre|FloodSpectre]] 17:28, 24 August 2008 (EDT)
:My duchess has had 6 children so far, and she sits around all day whining for more platinum items. My legendary siege builder had no children until she hit legendary (and now does nothing) and started to have kids. However, I have had kinds from my 2 miners (whi NEVER stop mining) but they seem to stick at one until it gets to child status, and then have another. --Gotthard 12:13, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== Triplets... ==

Small fortress, 50 dwarves and suddenly "Tirist Dwarfeddwarves has given birth to triplets"... Of course it was military dwarfess... The article page says nothing about huge dwarven litters. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 11:19, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

== Unusual Family Structures ==

Playing in Adventure mode, I asked a child about his family. He told me about his grandmother, who moved to some city in some year, and later slew a wolf. Then the child added, "She is also my aunt." o.O --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 16:04, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== Children strenght ? ==

Are children -not only dwarves but all creatures- weaker than the adults ? It seem logical, but I've never read anything about it. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 04:23, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:The only way I can think to test it is to have your dwarves haul some heavy things (>2000Γ) to the depot and see if the children do it slower than the adults. My bet would be no, though if not, Toady's bound to fix it sooner or later.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:17, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:: Well, by strenght, I also meant damage resistance and etc... eg ; is a puppy less resistant than a dog ? Is a young giant eagle less deadly than a full-grown one ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 18:27, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:::(jarred memory) Oh yes -- children are about 2/3s the size of adults (going by how much meat you get from butchering them), and size is a big factor in combat. So, yes, children are weaker.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:15, 2 November 2008 (EST)

:I don't think there is much difference, my chilren at 'superdwarvenly tough' seem to take as many iron bolts to die a their older relatives. I've had a couple of my children (of which I have 90+) fight off Goblins in hand-to-hand combat, but they won't engage unless they are caught. Frankly, overall children will end up BEING stronger, stat wise, due to talking all the time, compared with older folk who have jobs, but that is not inherent to children themselves. --Gotthard 22:57, 2 November 2008 (EST)

== "abandoned" baby ==

Can a baby die of starvation/thirst if the mother is injured and unable to retrieve them? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 17:02, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:I don't believe babies receive food or drink at all (this leads to the "has not had a drink in far too long" message by the end of their infancy). It's possible that would change when the baby is not carried by the mother, but frankly, I'd be surprised.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:14, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== No Profession? ==

One of my children finally grew up to be a real, manly, dwarf farmer. Except that, despite having proficient skill in growing, he is considered a peasant. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 14:13, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:Hm. I remember in older versions my harvesting children, upon reaching adulthood, became farmers. Does he have Proficient or higher [[broker skills]]? Once his farming skill exceeds them, his profession ought to change.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:37, 11 November 2008 (EST)

::His highest broker skill is competent intimidation. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 14:59, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:::Confirmation, I have a peasant former-child who has novice grower and has not become a farmer. He has higher social skills of course, but that never interfered with the promotion of regular peasants to other professions afaik. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:58, 4 December 2008 (EST)

:::Update: said peasant became a grower when his Siege Operating reached novice... despite them both being the same level... I don't get it... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:33, 4 December 2008 (EST)

:If you use Dwarf Manager to set a fast-levelling labour on a child, like Pump Operating, you can actually end up with a Legendary Pump Operator "peasant" who still has the peasant cyan colour and even flashes appropriately. My theory is that the game recalculates the appropriate label for a dwarf each time they gain a level in any skill, just in case it's changed. Hence, getting any further skills of any sort will readjust them appropriately. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 04:27, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

== The bones of the young ==

How many bones do you get from a dwarven baby? This seems odd and I find no page for the "baby" dwarf here on the wiki so.. it's like this:

The baby and her mother were attacked by goblins. An arrow tore the babys hand clean off and then they killed the mother and the child. I always (f)orbid the dwarves from touching the corpses after they're buried since I suspect they will steal the bones and make bolts out of them. Now I noticed that for some reason in the baby grave there is 1 skull and 2 bones. Does the body give 1 bone and the hand 1? Or does the body give 2 and they never retrieved the hand?
Is this all a bug? [[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 03:48, 23 December 2008 (EDT)

:The current understanding is that young creatures have 2/3s the size (and therefore bones) of adults. Babies might be distinct from children, however -- 1/3 size? That would make dwarven babies size 2, 'cause adult dwarves are size 6.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:25, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::That makes sense. Thanks! - [[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 06:48, 23 December 2008 (EDT)

:As for forbidding the corpses, I don't believe this is necessary. Dwarves will only make bolts and totems and stuff out of "refuse" bones, whereas dwarves and pets are considered "graveyard" (or coffin) bones and will not be used. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 04:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

== Birthdays? ==

Is there any way to determine the birth date of a Dwarf, short of writing it down manually when a child is born? The information must be stored by the game, since infants do become children and then adults. I've been unable to find anything more specific that the relationship tags (''younger'' brother, ''oldest'' daughter, etc.), which are pretty vague.

And are children more likely to organize parties near their birthday? --[[User:Oddrune|Oddrune]] 15:30, 5 February 2009 (EST)

== Nudists ==

I took a look at the children in my fort and noticed that they are all '''NAKED'''. 
Perhaps it should be added to the article? The only things the children had in their inventory was mud, vomit and blood splatter. Which I guess means they hang around the barracks alot. --[[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 00:05, 8 February 2009 (CET)

== Can't change parent's jobs ==

When there's a dwarf you want to change a job on, but she's carrying a baby, you can't access her v->p menu.The baby's v->p menu takes precendence. Is this an oversight? [[User:Blargityblarg|Blargityblarg]] 09:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
:Press v again, this should switch to the mother instead of her baby. When there are multiple creatures layered on top of each other, pressing v should switch between them. Unless you are doing that and it is happening as you described. The Dwarfmanager utility can help you out here if you want to use it. --[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 12:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

== What the heck, children can be assigned jobs? ==
I don't know whether this is a fluke or what, but after using Dwarf Manager to assign all dwarves the masonry task to quickly complete something and after I did that, I noticed that two of the kids were working in the masonry shop. If you don't believe me, look at the screenshot. No idea if this is a bug/exploit or what. I'm not planning on keeping the jobs there on the kids once that quick project is done. I checked again after that workshop task was done and they apparently will do a workshop task but not the construct wall/floor. It most likely has to do with the coding that allow them to use a workshop when in a mood.
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/smjjames/Untitled-6.png[/IMG]

I don't know how to get images up here properly though.--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 23:34, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:In my experience, children are basically just dwarves with their labour screen disabled and most of their labours disabled as well. So yes, you can make them do all kinds of things: Hauling, fishing, working in workshops, etc. Personally, I order them to do nothing but work the pumps until adulthood, so they'll be ready for speedy hauling duty by the time they grow up.

:Dwarf Manager is a memory hacking tool, and should be treated as such — i.e. while most of what it does is provide shortcuts to things you could do in-game, it's not going to prevent you from doing certain things that would indeed be considered cheating. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 04:21, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Children

2009-06-09T04:24:54Z

Wisq: /* The bones of the young */

Dwarves will get married? I thought only immigrants could be married, when the arive at the fort?

– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Doler 12|Doler 12]]

Dunno about that! but I did rewrite the article. Hope the formal wikipedia style isn't too far out of whack here, [[User talk:GarrieIrons|slap me]] if I need it.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:19, 5 February 2008 (EST)

:Dwarves can get married at any point, if they like each other enough. Does anyone know if dwarves will ever not 'forgo any formal arrangements'? Someone better than me should write a marriage page. --[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 12:27, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

::see [[Marriage]] [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 13:16, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

== out of date ==

relationships and marriage has been added recently, so this ought to updated to reflect the new, less mysterious process.

== How many children again? ==
Hmmm 25 children and only 10 dwarves... Maybe unleashing that dragon was a bad idea.
:You think that's bad? 241 dwarves, 70 children. I'm making an entire village outside for all of them... when you hit the pop cap, they keep having babies (until 100 if the init.txt is unedited), but you get no actual labor from migrants. It's getting exceptionally annoying in here... 12 years in game, and only 2 children have graduated to peasants. --Gotthard 12:11, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== kids and alcohol ==

gotta love em when they lift up the whole 56 weight barrel... and thats from as young at two as well ^_^ [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 08:53, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:The newborns in my fortress "need alcohol to get through the working day". Must come from their mum the Mayor being still on active duty and having one baby per year every year of the fortress so far. Kinda sucks that my most reliable means of "alcohol production" so far is trading in "narrow giant cave spider silk socks (600)" for sly grog!09:07, 29 June 2008 (EDT)
::Actually the quote from the (I guess toddler) is "She needs alcohol to get through the working day and has gone without a drink for far, far too long"![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:09, 29 June 2008 (EDT)

==child abuse?==

my child has a broken upper leg... idk how it happened :( my guess is one of its parents hit it really hard, or one of them sat/laid on top of it in bed - that family often has all four of them in the same bed. [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 08:48, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

<nowiki>:(</nowiki> nobody wanted to feed the kid, or bring it water, so it went melancholy within a year. [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 10:15, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

== Noble children don't become nobles right? ==

I was amazed a noble gave birth. I want princesses and princes, even though they will have beards.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 21:17, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
:I've not seen it personally, but the exact opposite is said to be the case. Due to a dwarf's value being set in an economy by how much work they do and their children's value supposedly being a function of both their parent's until they come of age, Noble children end up being paupers since their parents don't need to do any work/get stuff for free for merely being nobles. --[[User:Kyace|Kyace]] 07:05, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

== Happy to be free ==

I recently had a kidnapper make off with a baby (despite the only entrance to my fort being cage-trapped - NB. it is not safe for baby-carrying women to be Mechanics!), and the child in question currently has a single thought: "She is happy to be free.". Free from the oppressive shackles of dwarven society, I guess. Perhaps the goblins make more toys than I do! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 15:22, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

: Maybe it's just a "joke" from Toady. Or maybe the baby manage to escape the goblin's lair, but it seems strange in the current version (38c).

:: I just had one kidnapped and was expecting the parents to get a negative thought. (didn't see one) And I also saw the happy to be free bit under the child. When i zoomed to it though it showed the spot where the kidnapping took place. Probably a bug.--[[User:Silver|Silver]] 15:41, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

:I actually believe this is a way to stabilize the child's mood so it doesn't abruptly throw a tantrum when kidnapped and break something. Happy to be free is an outstandingly powerful happy thought (+1000 where ecstatic is +50), usually used to give people a break from unhappy prisoners getting out of jail. By tacking on happy to be free, Toady is essentially locking in the child's mood so it behaves predictably helplessly when kidnapped. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:20, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::I noticed the "happy to be free" thought in a baby that was actually freed after its kidnapper was taken down by dogs. (It happened automatically once the bag was dropped.) Maybe generating the happy thought before it gets out of the bag is just a bug.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:09, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== Child production ==

Hmm, seems that idle dwarves gave birth to more baby than others. I've got a nervous system-injured dwarf that do nothing else that wander in the meeting hall, and she have 4 children. It should be related to the relationships, because this dwarf is competent in all the the relationship skills... anyone can confirm ? (sorry for my imperfect english) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 10:12, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
:I also have a nervous system-injured dwarf wounded from sparring who's beginning to have children. She's the only one so far with the injury or children. --[[User:FloodSpectre|FloodSpectre]] 17:28, 24 August 2008 (EDT)
:My duchess has had 6 children so far, and she sits around all day whining for more platinum items. My legendary siege builder had no children until she hit legendary (and now does nothing) and started to have kids. However, I have had kinds from my 2 miners (whi NEVER stop mining) but they seem to stick at one until it gets to child status, and then have another. --Gotthard 12:13, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== Triplets... ==

Small fortress, 50 dwarves and suddenly "Tirist Dwarfeddwarves has given birth to triplets"... Of course it was military dwarfess... The article page says nothing about huge dwarven litters. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 11:19, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

== Unusual Family Structures ==

Playing in Adventure mode, I asked a child about his family. He told me about his grandmother, who moved to some city in some year, and later slew a wolf. Then the child added, "She is also my aunt." o.O --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 16:04, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== Children strenght ? ==

Are children -not only dwarves but all creatures- weaker than the adults ? It seem logical, but I've never read anything about it. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 04:23, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:The only way I can think to test it is to have your dwarves haul some heavy things (>2000Γ) to the depot and see if the children do it slower than the adults. My bet would be no, though if not, Toady's bound to fix it sooner or later.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:17, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:: Well, by strenght, I also meant damage resistance and etc... eg ; is a puppy less resistant than a dog ? Is a young giant eagle less deadly than a full-grown one ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 18:27, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:::(jarred memory) Oh yes -- children are about 2/3s the size of adults (going by how much meat you get from butchering them), and size is a big factor in combat. So, yes, children are weaker.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:15, 2 November 2008 (EST)

:I don't think there is much difference, my chilren at 'superdwarvenly tough' seem to take as many iron bolts to die a their older relatives. I've had a couple of my children (of which I have 90+) fight off Goblins in hand-to-hand combat, but they won't engage unless they are caught. Frankly, overall children will end up BEING stronger, stat wise, due to talking all the time, compared with older folk who have jobs, but that is not inherent to children themselves. --Gotthard 22:57, 2 November 2008 (EST)

== "abandoned" baby ==

Can a baby die of starvation/thirst if the mother is injured and unable to retrieve them? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 17:02, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:I don't believe babies receive food or drink at all (this leads to the "has not had a drink in far too long" message by the end of their infancy). It's possible that would change when the baby is not carried by the mother, but frankly, I'd be surprised.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:14, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== No Profession? ==

One of my children finally grew up to be a real, manly, dwarf farmer. Except that, despite having proficient skill in growing, he is considered a peasant. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 14:13, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:Hm. I remember in older versions my harvesting children, upon reaching adulthood, became farmers. Does he have Proficient or higher [[broker skills]]? Once his farming skill exceeds them, his profession ought to change.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:37, 11 November 2008 (EST)

::His highest broker skill is competent intimidation. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 14:59, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:::Confirmation, I have a peasant former-child who has novice grower and has not become a farmer. He has higher social skills of course, but that never interfered with the promotion of regular peasants to other professions afaik. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:58, 4 December 2008 (EST)

:::Update: said peasant became a grower when his Siege Operating reached novice... despite them both being the same level... I don't get it... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:33, 4 December 2008 (EST)

== The bones of the young ==

How many bones do you get from a dwarven baby? This seems odd and I find no page for the "baby" dwarf here on the wiki so.. it's like this:

The baby and her mother were attacked by goblins. An arrow tore the babys hand clean off and then they killed the mother and the child. I always (f)orbid the dwarves from touching the corpses after they're buried since I suspect they will steal the bones and make bolts out of them. Now I noticed that for some reason in the baby grave there is 1 skull and 2 bones. Does the body give 1 bone and the hand 1? Or does the body give 2 and they never retrieved the hand?
Is this all a bug? [[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 03:48, 23 December 2008 (EDT)

:The current understanding is that young creatures have 2/3s the size (and therefore bones) of adults. Babies might be distinct from children, however -- 1/3 size? That would make dwarven babies size 2, 'cause adult dwarves are size 6.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:25, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::That makes sense. Thanks! - [[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 06:48, 23 December 2008 (EDT)

:As for forbidding the corpses, I don't believe this is necessary. Dwarves will only make bolts and totems and stuff out of "refuse" bones, whereas dwarves and pets are considered "graveyard" (or coffin) bones and will not be used. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 04:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

== Birthdays? ==

Is there any way to determine the birth date of a Dwarf, short of writing it down manually when a child is born? The information must be stored by the game, since infants do become children and then adults. I've been unable to find anything more specific that the relationship tags (''younger'' brother, ''oldest'' daughter, etc.), which are pretty vague.

And are children more likely to organize parties near their birthday? --[[User:Oddrune|Oddrune]] 15:30, 5 February 2009 (EST)

== Nudists ==

I took a look at the children in my fort and noticed that they are all '''NAKED'''. 
Perhaps it should be added to the article? The only things the children had in their inventory was mud, vomit and blood splatter. Which I guess means they hang around the barracks alot. --[[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 00:05, 8 February 2009 (CET)

== Can't change parent's jobs ==

When there's a dwarf you want to change a job on, but she's carrying a baby, you can't access her v->p menu.The baby's v->p menu takes precendence. Is this an oversight? [[User:Blargityblarg|Blargityblarg]] 09:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
:Press v again, this should switch to the mother instead of her baby. When there are multiple creatures layered on top of each other, pressing v should switch between them. Unless you are doing that and it is happening as you described. The Dwarfmanager utility can help you out here if you want to use it. --[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 12:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

== What the heck, children can be assigned jobs? ==
I don't know whether this is a fluke or what, but after using Dwarf Manager to assign all dwarves the masonry task to quickly complete something and after I did that, I noticed that two of the kids were working in the masonry shop. If you don't believe me, look at the screenshot. No idea if this is a bug/exploit or what. I'm not planning on keeping the jobs there on the kids once that quick project is done. I checked again after that workshop task was done and they apparently will do a workshop task but not the construct wall/floor. It most likely has to do with the coding that allow them to use a workshop when in a mood.
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/smjjames/Untitled-6.png[/IMG]

I don't know how to get images up here properly though.--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 23:34, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:In my experience, children are basically just dwarves with their labour screen disabled and most of their labours disabled as well. So yes, you can make them do all kinds of things: Hauling, fishing, working in workshops, etc. Personally, I order them to do nothing but work the pumps until adulthood, so they'll be ready for speedy hauling duty by the time they grow up.

:Dwarf Manager is a memory hacking tool, and should be treated as such — i.e. while most of what it does is provide shortcuts to things you could do in-game, it's not going to prevent you from doing certain things that would indeed be considered cheating. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 04:21, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Children

2009-06-09T04:21:51Z

Wisq: /* What the heck, children can be assigned jobs? */

Dwarves will get married? I thought only immigrants could be married, when the arive at the fort?

– [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Doler 12|Doler 12]]

Dunno about that! but I did rewrite the article. Hope the formal wikipedia style isn't too far out of whack here, [[User talk:GarrieIrons|slap me]] if I need it.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 06:19, 5 February 2008 (EST)

:Dwarves can get married at any point, if they like each other enough. Does anyone know if dwarves will ever not 'forgo any formal arrangements'? Someone better than me should write a marriage page. --[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 12:27, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

::see [[Marriage]] [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 13:16, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

== out of date ==

relationships and marriage has been added recently, so this ought to updated to reflect the new, less mysterious process.

== How many children again? ==
Hmmm 25 children and only 10 dwarves... Maybe unleashing that dragon was a bad idea.
:You think that's bad? 241 dwarves, 70 children. I'm making an entire village outside for all of them... when you hit the pop cap, they keep having babies (until 100 if the init.txt is unedited), but you get no actual labor from migrants. It's getting exceptionally annoying in here... 12 years in game, and only 2 children have graduated to peasants. --Gotthard 12:11, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== kids and alcohol ==

gotta love em when they lift up the whole 56 weight barrel... and thats from as young at two as well ^_^ [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 08:53, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
:The newborns in my fortress "need alcohol to get through the working day". Must come from their mum the Mayor being still on active duty and having one baby per year every year of the fortress so far. Kinda sucks that my most reliable means of "alcohol production" so far is trading in "narrow giant cave spider silk socks (600)" for sly grog!09:07, 29 June 2008 (EDT)
::Actually the quote from the (I guess toddler) is "She needs alcohol to get through the working day and has gone without a drink for far, far too long"![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:09, 29 June 2008 (EDT)

==child abuse?==

my child has a broken upper leg... idk how it happened :( my guess is one of its parents hit it really hard, or one of them sat/laid on top of it in bed - that family often has all four of them in the same bed. [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 08:48, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

<nowiki>:(</nowiki> nobody wanted to feed the kid, or bring it water, so it went melancholy within a year. [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 10:15, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

== Noble children don't become nobles right? ==

I was amazed a noble gave birth. I want princesses and princes, even though they will have beards.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 21:17, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
:I've not seen it personally, but the exact opposite is said to be the case. Due to a dwarf's value being set in an economy by how much work they do and their children's value supposedly being a function of both their parent's until they come of age, Noble children end up being paupers since their parents don't need to do any work/get stuff for free for merely being nobles. --[[User:Kyace|Kyace]] 07:05, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

== Happy to be free ==

I recently had a kidnapper make off with a baby (despite the only entrance to my fort being cage-trapped - NB. it is not safe for baby-carrying women to be Mechanics!), and the child in question currently has a single thought: "She is happy to be free.". Free from the oppressive shackles of dwarven society, I guess. Perhaps the goblins make more toys than I do! --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 15:22, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

: Maybe it's just a "joke" from Toady. Or maybe the baby manage to escape the goblin's lair, but it seems strange in the current version (38c).

:: I just had one kidnapped and was expecting the parents to get a negative thought. (didn't see one) And I also saw the happy to be free bit under the child. When i zoomed to it though it showed the spot where the kidnapping took place. Probably a bug.--[[User:Silver|Silver]] 15:41, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

:I actually believe this is a way to stabilize the child's mood so it doesn't abruptly throw a tantrum when kidnapped and break something. Happy to be free is an outstandingly powerful happy thought (+1000 where ecstatic is +50), usually used to give people a break from unhappy prisoners getting out of jail. By tacking on happy to be free, Toady is essentially locking in the child's mood so it behaves predictably helplessly when kidnapped. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:20, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

::I noticed the "happy to be free" thought in a baby that was actually freed after its kidnapper was taken down by dogs. (It happened automatically once the bag was dropped.) Maybe generating the happy thought before it gets out of the bag is just a bug.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:09, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== Child production ==

Hmm, seems that idle dwarves gave birth to more baby than others. I've got a nervous system-injured dwarf that do nothing else that wander in the meeting hall, and she have 4 children. It should be related to the relationships, because this dwarf is competent in all the the relationship skills... anyone can confirm ? (sorry for my imperfect english) [[User:Timst|Timst]] 10:12, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
:I also have a nervous system-injured dwarf wounded from sparring who's beginning to have children. She's the only one so far with the injury or children. --[[User:FloodSpectre|FloodSpectre]] 17:28, 24 August 2008 (EDT)
:My duchess has had 6 children so far, and she sits around all day whining for more platinum items. My legendary siege builder had no children until she hit legendary (and now does nothing) and started to have kids. However, I have had kinds from my 2 miners (whi NEVER stop mining) but they seem to stick at one until it gets to child status, and then have another. --Gotthard 12:13, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== Triplets... ==

Small fortress, 50 dwarves and suddenly "Tirist Dwarfeddwarves has given birth to triplets"... Of course it was military dwarfess... The article page says nothing about huge dwarven litters. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 11:19, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

== Unusual Family Structures ==

Playing in Adventure mode, I asked a child about his family. He told me about his grandmother, who moved to some city in some year, and later slew a wolf. Then the child added, "She is also my aunt." o.O --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 16:04, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

== Children strenght ? ==

Are children -not only dwarves but all creatures- weaker than the adults ? It seem logical, but I've never read anything about it. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 04:23, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:The only way I can think to test it is to have your dwarves haul some heavy things (>2000Γ) to the depot and see if the children do it slower than the adults. My bet would be no, though if not, Toady's bound to fix it sooner or later.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:17, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:: Well, by strenght, I also meant damage resistance and etc... eg ; is a puppy less resistant than a dog ? Is a young giant eagle less deadly than a full-grown one ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 18:27, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:::(jarred memory) Oh yes -- children are about 2/3s the size of adults (going by how much meat you get from butchering them), and size is a big factor in combat. So, yes, children are weaker.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 13:15, 2 November 2008 (EST)

:I don't think there is much difference, my chilren at 'superdwarvenly tough' seem to take as many iron bolts to die a their older relatives. I've had a couple of my children (of which I have 90+) fight off Goblins in hand-to-hand combat, but they won't engage unless they are caught. Frankly, overall children will end up BEING stronger, stat wise, due to talking all the time, compared with older folk who have jobs, but that is not inherent to children themselves. --Gotthard 22:57, 2 November 2008 (EST)

== "abandoned" baby ==

Can a baby die of starvation/thirst if the mother is injured and unable to retrieve them? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 17:02, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

:I don't believe babies receive food or drink at all (this leads to the "has not had a drink in far too long" message by the end of their infancy). It's possible that would change when the baby is not carried by the mother, but frankly, I'd be surprised.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:14, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

== No Profession? ==

One of my children finally grew up to be a real, manly, dwarf farmer. Except that, despite having proficient skill in growing, he is considered a peasant. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 14:13, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:Hm. I remember in older versions my harvesting children, upon reaching adulthood, became farmers. Does he have Proficient or higher [[broker skills]]? Once his farming skill exceeds them, his profession ought to change.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:37, 11 November 2008 (EST)

::His highest broker skill is competent intimidation. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 14:59, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:::Confirmation, I have a peasant former-child who has novice grower and has not become a farmer. He has higher social skills of course, but that never interfered with the promotion of regular peasants to other professions afaik. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:58, 4 December 2008 (EST)

:::Update: said peasant became a grower when his Siege Operating reached novice... despite them both being the same level... I don't get it... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 12:33, 4 December 2008 (EST)

== The bones of the young ==

How many bones do you get from a dwarven baby? This seems odd and I find no page for the "baby" dwarf here on the wiki so.. it's like this:

The baby and her mother were attacked by goblins. An arrow tore the babys hand clean off and then they killed the mother and the child. I always (f)orbid the dwarves from touching the corpses after they're buried since I suspect they will steal the bones and make bolts out of them. Now I noticed that for some reason in the baby grave there is 1 skull and 2 bones. Does the body give 1 bone and the hand 1? Or does the body give 2 and they never retrieved the hand?
Is this all a bug? [[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 03:48, 23 December 2008 (EDT)

:The current understanding is that young creatures have 2/3s the size (and therefore bones) of adults. Babies might be distinct from children, however -- 1/3 size? That would make dwarven babies size 2, 'cause adult dwarves are size 6.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:25, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::That makes sense. Thanks! - [[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 06:48, 23 December 2008 (EDT)

== Birthdays? ==

Is there any way to determine the birth date of a Dwarf, short of writing it down manually when a child is born? The information must be stored by the game, since infants do become children and then adults. I've been unable to find anything more specific that the relationship tags (''younger'' brother, ''oldest'' daughter, etc.), which are pretty vague.

And are children more likely to organize parties near their birthday? --[[User:Oddrune|Oddrune]] 15:30, 5 February 2009 (EST)

== Nudists ==

I took a look at the children in my fort and noticed that they are all '''NAKED'''. 
Perhaps it should be added to the article? The only things the children had in their inventory was mud, vomit and blood splatter. Which I guess means they hang around the barracks alot. --[[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 00:05, 8 February 2009 (CET)

== Can't change parent's jobs ==

When there's a dwarf you want to change a job on, but she's carrying a baby, you can't access her v->p menu.The baby's v->p menu takes precendence. Is this an oversight? [[User:Blargityblarg|Blargityblarg]] 09:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
:Press v again, this should switch to the mother instead of her baby. When there are multiple creatures layered on top of each other, pressing v should switch between them. Unless you are doing that and it is happening as you described. The Dwarfmanager utility can help you out here if you want to use it. --[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 12:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

== What the heck, children can be assigned jobs? ==
I don't know whether this is a fluke or what, but after using Dwarf Manager to assign all dwarves the masonry task to quickly complete something and after I did that, I noticed that two of the kids were working in the masonry shop. If you don't believe me, look at the screenshot. No idea if this is a bug/exploit or what. I'm not planning on keeping the jobs there on the kids once that quick project is done. I checked again after that workshop task was done and they apparently will do a workshop task but not the construct wall/floor. It most likely has to do with the coding that allow them to use a workshop when in a mood.
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/smjjames/Untitled-6.png[/IMG]

I don't know how to get images up here properly though.--[[User:Smjjames|Smjjames]] 23:34, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:In my experience, children are basically just dwarves with their labour screen disabled and most of their labours disabled as well. So yes, you can make them do all kinds of things: Hauling, fishing, working in workshops, etc. Personally, I order them to do nothing but work the pumps until adulthood, so they'll be ready for speedy hauling duty by the time they grow up.

:Dwarf Manager is a memory hacking tool, and should be treated as such — i.e. while most of what it does is provide shortcuts to things you could do in-game, it's not going to prevent you from doing certain things that would indeed be considered cheating. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 04:21, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

40d:Goblin

2009-06-08T17:46:27Z

Wisq: I assume they're long whether you're ready or not, and the "ready" part was a warning.

{{CreatureInfo|name=Goblin|symbol=g|color={{COLOR:7:0:0}}|butcher=no|
bones=6|chunks=N/A|meat=N/A|fat=N/A|skulls=1|skin=N/A|
biome=
* In their towers and dark fortresses
}}

'''Goblins''' are intelligent [[humanoid]] [[creatures]] that live in dark fortresses in the [[mountain]]s. They are primarily interested in killing [[Dwarf|dwarves]]. They will [[siege]] any sufficiently populous or wealthy fortress, and frequently employ [[troll]]s in their armies to destroy [[door]]s and other [[building]]s.

Occasionally, one or more goblin "snatchers" may arrive if you have [[child]]ren in your fortress. They are stealthy like [[kobold]]s. Detecting them is announced by "Snatcher! Protect the children!". They will attempt to kidnap any children they come across and carry a [[bag]] with them for this purpose. After a few attempts goblin master [[thief|thieves]] will start showing up – besides being generally more competent, these can also evade [[trap]]s. There is also a small chance of getting the goblin ruler with these thieves, if he is a thief himself. Toady stated in a [[Developer interviews|RPPR interview]] that these children will be raised by the goblins and can eventually show up in future goblin armies.

Independent of this goblins will [[ambush]] your fortress, sending squads of different soldier types. Later, the sieges begin: your primary adversary in an invasion, goblin numbers increase every year once they start attacking, and eventually begin besieging your fortress more than once a year. Fortunately, they are not very bright, and will walk into traps by the hundreds. They may sometimes come riding [[beak dog]]s as cavalry. It is rare for goblin sieges to last until all of them die - the last few uncaged, un-eviscerated goblins will generally run for their lives rather than continue their attack.

Goblins carry somewhat valuable gear. They often wear [[giant cave spider]] [[silk]] [[cloth]]ing, [[iron]] [[armor]], even [[steel]] armor (that can be melted down) and steel [[weapon]]s. Crossbowmen will carry dwarf-usable [[bolt]]s. Goblin clothing is considered "[[narrow]]" and dwarves cannot wear it, though it can be used as [[trade]] goods or [[melted]]. Goblin [[bone]]s and [[skull]]s are not particularly valuable, although - as with all bones and skulls - the bones can be crafted into bolts and the skulls crafted into [[totem]]s.

Unlike other races, goblin "roads" are underground, and if you get in to one, be sure you are ready — it can be a long walk to the other side, and you cannot enter the travel map when walking one. Being underground, they do not show up on the map{{verify}}.

=== Living among them ===

Starting a fortress with a goblin stronghold in the local area is not for the faint of heart. If you take on this challenge, be careful in choosing a starting position; if your [[wagon]] starts inside the stronghold, your dwarves will probably come to a quick and bloody end. Reclaiming the resulting miasmal pit causes a bloodless eviction of the goblins and leaves one with a broad selection of odd items scattered throughout the now deserted towers{{Version|0.27.169.33g}}.

Because the goblin master thieves can avoid your traps, it's useful to chain a few war [[dog]]s at the entrance. [[Trap#Cage_Trap|Cage traps]] also seem to be more effective than other traps at catching those sneaking goblin masters.

As with Kobolds, it is possible to start next to a friendly goblin tower. This will add a great amount of wealth to your fortress, as well as provide you with potentially powerful allies.

In v40d, however, as soon as an invading force sieges you they will ALL turn hostile towards you, and will run out of their towers to slaughter you entirely.

=== Starting Equipment ===

If starting in a goblin fort you should definitely ditch your [[anvil]]. If you have a [[soil]] level you can probably get by bringing less [[food]] and less [[alcohol|booze]], thus allowing you to bring lots of dogs; a large enough pack of dogs should allow you to escape the goblin fort with few casualties, and start building your own army. The dogs will also provide you with a nice source of [[meat]].

== Goblin society ==
Goblin society has few laws. Slavery, assault, oath-breaking, and murder are all considered a personal matter between the parties involved. Additionally goblins view all forms of torture as acceptable (and fun).

Goblins do not possess the aptitude for [[grower|growing]], tending more towards [[fishing]], [[hunting]], and [[butcher]]ing livestock for their food sources. Fortunately for goblins their digestive systems can derive as much sustenance from [[bone]]s as from the [[meat]] that came on it.

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:GOBLIN]
[NAME:goblin:goblins:goblin]
[TILE:'g'][COLOR:7:0:0]
[GLOWTILE:'"'][GLOWCOLOR:4:0:1]
[GENPOWER:2]
[EVIL]
[INTELLIGENT][LIKES_FIGHTING]
[BONECARN]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:terrifying features]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:2:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:12][BABY:1][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
[SIZE:6]
[FAT:2]
[EQUIPS]
[NOCTURNAL]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:10]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:ANGER:25:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:IMMODERATION:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:EXCITEMENT_SEEKING:0:60:100]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:40:90]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:25:50]
[PERSONALITY:MODESTY:0:40:90]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:25:50]
}}
{{Creatures}}
[[Category:Races]]
[[Category:Humanoids]]

40d Talk:Armor

2009-06-08T01:41:14Z

Wisq: /* Plate over chainmail changed? */

==Boots==
Corrected the matter with low and high boots. If you look at the raws you can see that the armor level of both boot types are the same and thus they can both be used as chain and plate armor. My games have proved this to me. Only real difference between the two boot types is that the high boot is heavier and protects more of the body than just the feet. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 05:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)

==clothes layers==
Does anyone know the rules of where you can wear each piece of armor? For example, can you wear a high boot and leggings? or only low boots with leggings? Do you need to make two boots? --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 20:30, 9 November 2007 (EST)

: You can wear high boots with leggings. Leggings and high boots have different layers. --[[User:JT|JT]] 17:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)

On a similar note, what's the difference between steel leggings and steel greaves? I would've thought leggings would cover below the knee as well. Do I need both to provide maximum Xtreme protection? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:17, 18 November 2007 (EST)

: As far as I can tell, greaves are the Plate class upgrade to leggings, which are Chain class lower body armor. Unlike upper body armor however, dwarves don't appear to be able to wear both leggings and greaves at once and will drop their leggings in favour of a set of greaves when set to Plate armor. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 14:03, 25 November 2007 (EST)

==Protection values==
I would like to know if it's possible to find out the various protection values of different types of armor. For example, we know the material and quality modifiers for armor, but not, say, how much better plate mail protects you than chain. Or whether greaves or high boots offer more coverage.
I ask because I'm wondering if, with high quality modifiers, [[adamantine]] ''clothing'' is viable protection for those who aren't wearing armor. Certainly, it'd make a good halfway measure for those who can't do magma smelting yet, but ''can'' get a Craftsdwarf's Workshop, Loom, and Clothesmaker's Workshop set up to extract the threads, weave them, and make clothes. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:48, 13 December 2007 (EST)

==Soldier==

I think some of this article, specifically that stuff in the Using armor section, should be moved over to an article more dedicated to soldier preferences. As it is, it's describing everything about arming civilians with weapons instead of simply talking about armoring civilians; that content seems more appropriate for an article about soldiers or the hunting article. --[[User:JT|JT]] 17:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)

==Verified==

I can verify that whan setting dwarves to chain, they wear gauntlets --[[User:Nog|Nog]] 16:21, 12 November 2007 (EST)

== Table ==

I added a Materials Needed section to the table. Is this OK? --[[User:Nanor|Nanor]] 19 December 2007

:Excellent idea. It looked a little odd in the table, so I moved it to the text instead. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 16:47, 19 December 2007 (EST)

:: Much better! Thanks! --[[User:Nanor|Nanor]] 17:50, 19 December 2007 (EST)

== 23.130.23a ==

We had much more info on armor in the [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Armor old wiki]. Could someone with an account there bring the relevant bits over? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)

:Edit: Ported over most information; change anything that isn't correct.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 13:06, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Leather Armor re: Caps and Helms ==

A soldier set to leather armor can wear leather helms, not just caps, and they'll wear a cap at the same time underneath (at least, if it's silk. I haven't confirmed yet if a soldier will wear a leather cap + a leather helm; doesn't really matter). This is a good thing because helms (according to the old wiki) have higher Block. They're heavier too but this shouldn't be a problem. --[[User:Stromko|Stromko]] 19:57:15 (PST), January 06 2007

:In the old versions, the materials of the armor pieces were irrelevant, regardless of the fact that the lowest armor level is called "leather". Leather and chain wearers would wear any kind of legging or boot, and a plate wearer would wear even a pig tail helm, if they happened to come across one, showing no preference for better material types or quality. Has this changed, or does the table in this article contain some wrong assumptions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:42, 7 January 2008 (EST)

::I seem to recall that 'light' materials like cloth, shell, and bone effectively 'downgraded' armor by one level, weighed half as much, and were 50% of the maximum effectiveness per their type. However! I can see right now in my current fortress a steel cap is 78 pounds and a cave spider silk cap is 13 pounds. This shows not all old information is correct.

Furthermore, bone and shell doesn't become a 'lighter' class. Shell Gauntlets require Chain or above to be assigned, and Turtle Bone Greaves go un-used until a dwarf is set to Plate.

However, I /can/ confirm from this very fortress I'm looking at right now, that dwarves assigned to leather went to pick up and wear Leather Helms. Unless, that is, they already have metal Caps. I'm looking at a marksdwarf right now assigned to wear Leather who has a Steel Cap, a pig tail hood (they all have hoods), and no helm. Everybody else has a leather helm.

I should note my fortress has no metal helms lying around, nor does it have spare metal caps, so I'm unable to verify that dwarves set to Leather wouldn't wear metal Helms or preferentially choose caps (they'd probably choose /either/ Metal Caps or Leather Helms if given a choice). However, I'm pretty sure they would not. Therefore, it is my understanding that they make a distinction between different material types. --[[User:Stromko|Stromko]] 03:22 (PST), January 07 2007

== Shields and Bucklers ==

Hmm it states here that dwarves can wear BOTH shields and bucklers, however in soldiering screen you can select EITHER shield OR buckler, but NOT both. Does this part of article apply to Adv. mode only? Could someone verify, please? --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 18:21, 24 February 2008 (EST)

I would guess the trick is to tell them to use bucklers first, waiting til they pick one up, then telling them to use shields, at which point they'll pick up a shield without dropping the buckler first. Like how you can get dwarves to wear a leather armour, chain mail, and plate on top all at the same time if you set them to leather, then chain, then plate. [[User:Furiousfish|Furiousfish]] 20:54, 6 March 2008 (EST)

== Natural Selection ==

Being a bit of a nooblet, and not having much war in any of my fortresses, I'm confused as to how armor selection works.

Would I be correct if I said "Setting a dwarf to wear Plate armor will cause him to grab plate whenever and wherever possible, but substitute leather, chain, or bone wherever no plate is available. So, for example, if my metalsmiths never make helms, but my leatherworker has caps and helms galore, they'll wear plate armor and a leather helm. Right? If so, this should probably be mentioned. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 19:24, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:I've found that a dwarf set to wear plate will grab the best available armor. More puzzling is that they will sometimes stack armor; IE dwarves wearing plate mail and chain mail at the same time. However, I never keep a stock of leather armor, so I wouldn't know if it can be used in conjunction with metal armor.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 22:29 21 April 2008 (EDT)
::The dwarves seem to be notorious for pulling on a full suit of armour ie chain-then-plate, there's a reason a fort I made (whose metal industry relies on eg [[coal]] and [[lignite]]) is making all chain-mail, crossbows and shields to defend against gobbo raids ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 09:13, 3 June 2008 (EDT)
Just wanted to point out that leather armor and plate can't be put on together.

== Gloves ==
My military is set to wear Leather armor, but they don't take leather gloves. High boots, leggings, armor and helmets are used OK. Is the article data incorrect?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:51, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

Some equipment is unavaliable for dwarf use because it is the incorrect size. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:40, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

My guess is that your dwarves are already wearing cloth gloves. This is considered clothing level armor, the same level as leather gloves. They see no reason to switch armor when the leather gloves provide the same "level of protection." I think your best bet would be to dump their cloth gloves, if you're that worried about them. You can always reclaim them later. --[[User:PrettyGrizzly|PrettyGrizzly]] 11:00, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

== Artifacts ==

This has an excellent table defining the bonuses for quality/materials, but completely excludes artifact modifiers. I would assume that these would always be the best, regardless, of material, but I just found myself with a rhesus macaque leather shield and don't know if I should use it in place of, oh, I don't know, a more ''steel'' one.
:Currently, the exact modifier for artifact quality seems to be unknown. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 18:27, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

==Fort-mode equipment quirks==

The edit I just made was prompted by seeing a dwarf wearing ''twelve'' cloaks, and remembering the "cannot wear cloaks" phrase mentioned in the pre-edit version of the bit below the giant table. I tried to reconcile the two statements that were already there, particularly in light of said cloak-happy dwarf. However, there's also one thing I'm wondering about: is the number of equipped items partially determined by what order they're put on in fortress mode? I ''think'' it is, but am not sure, so I decided not to include that. If it's the case, however, I think it'd be worth mentioning along with the cloaks part (even in the old version of the page, should somebody decide to revert my edit or something). --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 20:23, 6 July 2008 (EDT)
:Dungeon masters wear nothing but 12 colors of cloaks and mittens. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 13:07, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Over Under Armor Cover ==

Besides sounding like a Daft Punk chorus, these are four LAYER values. I know what Over and Under do with respect to each other: You can't wear Under on top of Over. Do the others follow the same pattern, are they all ordered? Is there some more mysterious effect for "Cover" and "Armor"? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 01:04, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Decorating Armor ==
Wasn't sure whether to ask this here or under gem setter - is it not possible to get a gem setter to decorate armor? I know leather armor can receive images and bone/shell decorations (and presumably the bone/shell applies to metal as well), I can't fathom why you can't put gems on suits of armor given that.... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:44, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:AFAIK no, it isn't possible to decorate armor or weapons. That's one of the more frequently requested additions on the forums.[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:33, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::It is, however, possible to acquire armor already decorated with gems via trade with a caravan. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:09, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:::Said armor would unlikely to be masterwork, nor with masterwork decorations. Nor would it be made of adamantine. I'm afraid its no real supplement. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:35, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::::Oh, sure, if you want to, like, *survive*. Instead of look pretty. Where are your priorities? :) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:50, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:::::I want to survive *and* look pretty. When faced with a choice of two appealing options, the correct choice is obviously 'yes'. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:01, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::::::I suppose you have a point. Oh, well, back to [[Decoration|Stud with platinum]]. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 19:25, 5 December 2008 (EST)

== Markdwarves only work with bucklers?!?! ==

I guess that makes sense since historically, bucklers were made to strap to the forearm and allow archers to use their bows...

Anyway, it seems my markdwarves don't like it when I make them use a shield. They stop carrying ammunition and won't practice shooting when off duty.

Is this the reason or is something else going on? Anyway, if it is indeed the case that markdwarves don't work with shields, it deserves mention, right?
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 13:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
:It's unclear, for this reason: ThreeToe has stated, point blank, that '''"The two handed code is broken right now... the crossbow is always two handed."''' So it's unclear if a marksdwarf ever actually uses a shield or buckler if they're holding a crossbow - they might be using it 2 handed in melee as well (and I more than suspect they are).

:The way you suspect it to work is, I'd guess, the way it's ''supposed'' to work... whether that has anything to do with the way it ''does'' work is another guess.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 14:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:I've found that the best way is not to assign a buckler/shield at all. They then will use the free hand to carry practice bolts while off duty, while keeping metal bolts in the quiver for use at a moments notice. I suppose if the dwarf was done training, then you could assign a buckler.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 19:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== ARMOR ARTICLE SPLIT/COMBINING?==

[[Leather Armor]], should have it's own page. It is an item, like platemail.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:22, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

:I've been thinking about the "armour" category in general - every different item does not need its very own page. What is there to say about "leather armour" (the item, not the suit)? Look at [[low boot]], or [[leggings]] vs. [[greaves]] - waste of time to have to go to a diff page for each, and it currently takes ''how many'' to get a full picture of "armour"? Isn't this the type of thing that can be all combined into one more useful page?
::*Armor - general
::*Suits of Armor - the 5 basic parts
:::*of leather
:::*of chain
:::*of plate
:*layering
:*known quirks and bugs
:Maybe one page with all pieces, and then another (this) with all the misc information.[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

::I'm thinking of something more along the lines of a page for the different sets, combining the different separate pages for each item of armor.

:::There is a discussion about this page on a user talk page. ''Please discuss the Armor page here.'' And please state any problems or conflicts with the Armor page, so they can be evaluated and discussed.
:::Personally, I have few problems with the page. But then I pretty much know everything the page states, and while I like the comprehensive, factual style of the page it may not be the best style for educating new players. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 14:12, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

(DELETED COMMENTS ON OVER-ENTHUSIASM. Non-relevant now. We move forward.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

===Improving presentation of "Armor" ===

I think the larger point (echoed from posts above) is that, as is, the article makes sense to those who understand it - but isn't optimized for those who don't. There are 3 general problems that I perceive with the articles (plural) as they stand, and those same 3 areas I'd like to see addressed:
:* Scattered information - too many stub articles about individual armour pieces or one tiny facet of "armour".
:* No clean, unified "This all you need (to know) for leather armor", "This what you need (to know) for chain armor" (sub)articles.
:* This article is already borderline too long. Info is getting lost, readers are getting boggled - need a concept split between basic vs. advanced (or something sim). There are 11 sections, w/ some hefty sub-sections - that's too many by half.

(And I think we have to concede that answering the rather arcane question of ''"How does it work, EXACTLY?"'' will be an ongoing process, I'm afraid.)

Spotting problems is easy and cheap - solving them is the tough part. A user wants "all" relevant information in front of them, and not much more - and that'll be diff for each user. But I think we can take a stab at a generally applicable organization. I'd suggest this (as a starting point for this process, ~if~ it's agreed it needs to be addressed) -

2 articles; #1 deals w/ armor at face value for those not interested in the details (what each piece is, how they fit together into suits, how a dwarf puts them on, what craft/shop builds what), and #2 deals with the numbers for the number crunchers and optimizers (repetition of quality/material tables, damblock numbers, and all that issue.) For those Players who are comfortable in the simple (and correct) assumption that chain armour is "better" than leather, the first page gives them all they need to know (perhaps w/ hints & links beyond). For those who need more (a little or a lot), they go to the second page, where they'll find the Protection and Weight tables, and all the details that are teased slowly from the tags and RAW's.

Off the top of my head, I'd call the first page "Armor Guide" (fitting into Category: Guide) - all current "armor" articles would redirect to that one, at least. The second (advanced) article might be titled something like "Armor details" or "Armor values" or "Armor explained", and have all the stuff that boggles the unprepared. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
::I think the creation of armor belongs somewhere else in the wiki. The types of armor should be defined first, with all the exceptions and rules explained in a single article. Another article on the way the pieces layer on top of each other, and a final section of the second article for the defense bonuses of each item and the coverage, and all the other good and juicy technical things. The current layout is two biased towards traditional thinking, and is like trying to push the triangle block into the circle hole in those toys for tykes. It just doesn't fit the technicality that is dwarf fortress.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:53, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I agree re "making armor" - under "Armorsmith" seems reasonable. "Layering" is part of wearing, if an advanced part and one that is often overlooked ''(possibly because that article is lost among so much other bandwidth.)'' I think (depending on final size of the article, and number of sub-sections), that could be put at the bottom of the same page as definitions/how to use, so it's not separate from "suits", but works hand in hand with that info. That would give us a format that looks ''something'' like...
:*Article #1: Armor Guide:
::*Individual Pieces - (copied & improved from the various stub articles, which all then become redirects)
::**the 3 (4?) Levels (lthr, chain, plate - and clothing)
::*Using Armor - basic "how to" (not "advice" or strategies, unless universal warnings)
:::*Layering
::*Shields & Bucklers
::*"Misc" ("oddities") - sizes, wrestling, etc.
:::(deleted/redirected: "Making Armor" & "requirements" -> Armorsmith; possibly dump value table & quality table - redundant)

:*Article #2: "Armor Analysis" - number cruncher's bible ''(needs a better name)''
::*damblock/protection values
::*Chart showing Analysis of diff types/combo's
::*weight explanation
::*size/permit explanation

:::That puts everything the new/intermediate player needs to know about armour on 1 page, and all the "behind the scenes data" on another. Easy conceptual split.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

== Plate over chainmail changed? ==

I cannot get my dwarves to wear plate over chainmail. If I order them to wear chainmail, they wear it, including both a cap and a helm. If I order them to wear plate, they do indeed take off the chainmail first. I think this has been fixed, so I'm putting the appropriate 'verify' tags on the article. I also wonder if the helm-over-cap was always intended, rather than a glitch caused by stepping through armour levels. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 06:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:This has always been treated as a feature, not a bug, but whatever. It is called "layering armor". Dwarfs are also able to wear chain over leather, but not a "lighter" armor over a heavier one. I just tried it, and it works fine - chain over leather, plate over chain, no problem. (Oddly, they won't wear plate mail over leather armor, but such a step-up will cause the cap/helm layering.) vanilla 40d.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

::It's a little more complicated. The '''size and permit''' section of the article explains armor layering. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:22, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Well, that's very strange, then. I've got steel chainmail and steel plate mail, and per above, if I go nothing → chain → plate (giving them time to put everything on at each step), they put almost everything on at the "chain" stage (including both a steel cap and steel helm), and then promptly ditch their chainmail in favour of plate at the "plate" stage. Am I misunderstanding this? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 17:36, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

::::"Chain" and "Plate" level armours (the full suits) both include boots, gauntlets, helmet and possibly a steel cap underneath. Chain leggings would get ditched in favour of greaves, but the torso piece, the "chain armour", should still be seen in inventory along with "plate armour".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:::::Unless of course, we are totally wrong. Which is entirely possible.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

:Okay, so I'm still trying this, and while I've gotten two dwarves to wear both cap + helm and chainmail + platemail, I can't seem to get a third one to do it. I can get the cap + helm by forbidding leather helms and going leather, so he wears a steel cap. Then, I go chain, so he wears a steel helm and a steel chainmail. Then I go plate, and he runs to put the plate on, but drops the chainmail on the spot (in the stockpile) when he puts on the plate. Am I doing something wrong here? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 11:24, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

::What else is the dwarf wearing? Is the third dwarf wearing different 'clothing' than the other two? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:17, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

:::One of the successful ones is wearing two pig tail dresses (one worn), trousers, and a sock. One of the unsuccessful ones is wearing two leather robes and trousers (all worn). Just retried that one, and still no go. I assume the robes are the problem, but there's apparently no way to get them gone. Guess I have to wait for them to wear out and fall off. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 22:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

::::2 robes give a combined size of 40. Adding chainmail bumps that to 55. The permit of plate is 50, so you definitely cant wear plate over that. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:29, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

:::::Right, okay, so I have to wait for the dwarf to ditch the robes on his own (adding to the mess of discarded clothes already lying around the fort). Ah well. Thanks. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 01:41, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

== Example/consider shell..? ==
So if i read this right a masterful shell item gives the same protection as a no quality iron item? Thus i might consider using it in early game or in a tough game with no iron/steel..not even copper - or if my armorsmith is not yet able to produce higher qualities, but my carver is?

how to factor in weight? -is encumbrance only making dwarves slower or also fight worse?
:Not sure about %'s, but over-encumbrance will make a dwarf move slower, so less actions/second, so less combat - in theory. (See [[Speed]] and subsection on [[Encumbrance]].) But at 50% for material x 2.0 for quality for masterful shell, vs 100% for material x 1.0 for quality for iron - yes, identical in protection. If you gained a Legendary bone carver, have no skilled armorsmith, and/or a lot more bone and shell than iron, that's a valid option until you can solve that lack.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:41, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Armor

2009-06-07T22:57:40Z

Wisq: /* Plate over chainmail changed? */

==Boots==
Corrected the matter with low and high boots. If you look at the raws you can see that the armor level of both boot types are the same and thus they can both be used as chain and plate armor. My games have proved this to me. Only real difference between the two boot types is that the high boot is heavier and protects more of the body than just the feet. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 05:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)

==clothes layers==
Does anyone know the rules of where you can wear each piece of armor? For example, can you wear a high boot and leggings? or only low boots with leggings? Do you need to make two boots? --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 20:30, 9 November 2007 (EST)

: You can wear high boots with leggings. Leggings and high boots have different layers. --[[User:JT|JT]] 17:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)

On a similar note, what's the difference between steel leggings and steel greaves? I would've thought leggings would cover below the knee as well. Do I need both to provide maximum Xtreme protection? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:17, 18 November 2007 (EST)

: As far as I can tell, greaves are the Plate class upgrade to leggings, which are Chain class lower body armor. Unlike upper body armor however, dwarves don't appear to be able to wear both leggings and greaves at once and will drop their leggings in favour of a set of greaves when set to Plate armor. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 14:03, 25 November 2007 (EST)

==Protection values==
I would like to know if it's possible to find out the various protection values of different types of armor. For example, we know the material and quality modifiers for armor, but not, say, how much better plate mail protects you than chain. Or whether greaves or high boots offer more coverage.
I ask because I'm wondering if, with high quality modifiers, [[adamantine]] ''clothing'' is viable protection for those who aren't wearing armor. Certainly, it'd make a good halfway measure for those who can't do magma smelting yet, but ''can'' get a Craftsdwarf's Workshop, Loom, and Clothesmaker's Workshop set up to extract the threads, weave them, and make clothes. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:48, 13 December 2007 (EST)

==Soldier==

I think some of this article, specifically that stuff in the Using armor section, should be moved over to an article more dedicated to soldier preferences. As it is, it's describing everything about arming civilians with weapons instead of simply talking about armoring civilians; that content seems more appropriate for an article about soldiers or the hunting article. --[[User:JT|JT]] 17:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)

==Verified==

I can verify that whan setting dwarves to chain, they wear gauntlets --[[User:Nog|Nog]] 16:21, 12 November 2007 (EST)

== Table ==

I added a Materials Needed section to the table. Is this OK? --[[User:Nanor|Nanor]] 19 December 2007

:Excellent idea. It looked a little odd in the table, so I moved it to the text instead. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 16:47, 19 December 2007 (EST)

:: Much better! Thanks! --[[User:Nanor|Nanor]] 17:50, 19 December 2007 (EST)

== 23.130.23a ==

We had much more info on armor in the [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Armor old wiki]. Could someone with an account there bring the relevant bits over? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)

:Edit: Ported over most information; change anything that isn't correct.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 13:06, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Leather Armor re: Caps and Helms ==

A soldier set to leather armor can wear leather helms, not just caps, and they'll wear a cap at the same time underneath (at least, if it's silk. I haven't confirmed yet if a soldier will wear a leather cap + a leather helm; doesn't really matter). This is a good thing because helms (according to the old wiki) have higher Block. They're heavier too but this shouldn't be a problem. --[[User:Stromko|Stromko]] 19:57:15 (PST), January 06 2007

:In the old versions, the materials of the armor pieces were irrelevant, regardless of the fact that the lowest armor level is called "leather". Leather and chain wearers would wear any kind of legging or boot, and a plate wearer would wear even a pig tail helm, if they happened to come across one, showing no preference for better material types or quality. Has this changed, or does the table in this article contain some wrong assumptions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:42, 7 January 2008 (EST)

::I seem to recall that 'light' materials like cloth, shell, and bone effectively 'downgraded' armor by one level, weighed half as much, and were 50% of the maximum effectiveness per their type. However! I can see right now in my current fortress a steel cap is 78 pounds and a cave spider silk cap is 13 pounds. This shows not all old information is correct.

Furthermore, bone and shell doesn't become a 'lighter' class. Shell Gauntlets require Chain or above to be assigned, and Turtle Bone Greaves go un-used until a dwarf is set to Plate.

However, I /can/ confirm from this very fortress I'm looking at right now, that dwarves assigned to leather went to pick up and wear Leather Helms. Unless, that is, they already have metal Caps. I'm looking at a marksdwarf right now assigned to wear Leather who has a Steel Cap, a pig tail hood (they all have hoods), and no helm. Everybody else has a leather helm.

I should note my fortress has no metal helms lying around, nor does it have spare metal caps, so I'm unable to verify that dwarves set to Leather wouldn't wear metal Helms or preferentially choose caps (they'd probably choose /either/ Metal Caps or Leather Helms if given a choice). However, I'm pretty sure they would not. Therefore, it is my understanding that they make a distinction between different material types. --[[User:Stromko|Stromko]] 03:22 (PST), January 07 2007

== Shields and Bucklers ==

Hmm it states here that dwarves can wear BOTH shields and bucklers, however in soldiering screen you can select EITHER shield OR buckler, but NOT both. Does this part of article apply to Adv. mode only? Could someone verify, please? --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 18:21, 24 February 2008 (EST)

I would guess the trick is to tell them to use bucklers first, waiting til they pick one up, then telling them to use shields, at which point they'll pick up a shield without dropping the buckler first. Like how you can get dwarves to wear a leather armour, chain mail, and plate on top all at the same time if you set them to leather, then chain, then plate. [[User:Furiousfish|Furiousfish]] 20:54, 6 March 2008 (EST)

== Natural Selection ==

Being a bit of a nooblet, and not having much war in any of my fortresses, I'm confused as to how armor selection works.

Would I be correct if I said "Setting a dwarf to wear Plate armor will cause him to grab plate whenever and wherever possible, but substitute leather, chain, or bone wherever no plate is available. So, for example, if my metalsmiths never make helms, but my leatherworker has caps and helms galore, they'll wear plate armor and a leather helm. Right? If so, this should probably be mentioned. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 19:24, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:I've found that a dwarf set to wear plate will grab the best available armor. More puzzling is that they will sometimes stack armor; IE dwarves wearing plate mail and chain mail at the same time. However, I never keep a stock of leather armor, so I wouldn't know if it can be used in conjunction with metal armor.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 22:29 21 April 2008 (EDT)
::The dwarves seem to be notorious for pulling on a full suit of armour ie chain-then-plate, there's a reason a fort I made (whose metal industry relies on eg [[coal]] and [[lignite]]) is making all chain-mail, crossbows and shields to defend against gobbo raids ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 09:13, 3 June 2008 (EDT)
Just wanted to point out that leather armor and plate can't be put on together.

== Gloves ==
My military is set to wear Leather armor, but they don't take leather gloves. High boots, leggings, armor and helmets are used OK. Is the article data incorrect?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:51, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

Some equipment is unavaliable for dwarf use because it is the incorrect size. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:40, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

My guess is that your dwarves are already wearing cloth gloves. This is considered clothing level armor, the same level as leather gloves. They see no reason to switch armor when the leather gloves provide the same "level of protection." I think your best bet would be to dump their cloth gloves, if you're that worried about them. You can always reclaim them later. --[[User:PrettyGrizzly|PrettyGrizzly]] 11:00, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

== Artifacts ==

This has an excellent table defining the bonuses for quality/materials, but completely excludes artifact modifiers. I would assume that these would always be the best, regardless, of material, but I just found myself with a rhesus macaque leather shield and don't know if I should use it in place of, oh, I don't know, a more ''steel'' one.
:Currently, the exact modifier for artifact quality seems to be unknown. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 18:27, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

==Fort-mode equipment quirks==

The edit I just made was prompted by seeing a dwarf wearing ''twelve'' cloaks, and remembering the "cannot wear cloaks" phrase mentioned in the pre-edit version of the bit below the giant table. I tried to reconcile the two statements that were already there, particularly in light of said cloak-happy dwarf. However, there's also one thing I'm wondering about: is the number of equipped items partially determined by what order they're put on in fortress mode? I ''think'' it is, but am not sure, so I decided not to include that. If it's the case, however, I think it'd be worth mentioning along with the cloaks part (even in the old version of the page, should somebody decide to revert my edit or something). --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 20:23, 6 July 2008 (EDT)
:Dungeon masters wear nothing but 12 colors of cloaks and mittens. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 13:07, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Over Under Armor Cover ==

Besides sounding like a Daft Punk chorus, these are four LAYER values. I know what Over and Under do with respect to each other: You can't wear Under on top of Over. Do the others follow the same pattern, are they all ordered? Is there some more mysterious effect for "Cover" and "Armor"? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 01:04, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Decorating Armor ==
Wasn't sure whether to ask this here or under gem setter - is it not possible to get a gem setter to decorate armor? I know leather armor can receive images and bone/shell decorations (and presumably the bone/shell applies to metal as well), I can't fathom why you can't put gems on suits of armor given that.... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:44, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:AFAIK no, it isn't possible to decorate armor or weapons. That's one of the more frequently requested additions on the forums.[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:33, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::It is, however, possible to acquire armor already decorated with gems via trade with a caravan. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:09, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:::Said armor would unlikely to be masterwork, nor with masterwork decorations. Nor would it be made of adamantine. I'm afraid its no real supplement. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:35, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::::Oh, sure, if you want to, like, *survive*. Instead of look pretty. Where are your priorities? :) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:50, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:::::I want to survive *and* look pretty. When faced with a choice of two appealing options, the correct choice is obviously 'yes'. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:01, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::::::I suppose you have a point. Oh, well, back to [[Decoration|Stud with platinum]]. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 19:25, 5 December 2008 (EST)

== Markdwarves only work with bucklers?!?! ==

I guess that makes sense since historically, bucklers were made to strap to the forearm and allow archers to use their bows...

Anyway, it seems my markdwarves don't like it when I make them use a shield. They stop carrying ammunition and won't practice shooting when off duty.

Is this the reason or is something else going on? Anyway, if it is indeed the case that markdwarves don't work with shields, it deserves mention, right?
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 13:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
:It's unclear, for this reason: ThreeToe has stated, point blank, that '''"The two handed code is broken right now... the crossbow is always two handed."''' So it's unclear if a marksdwarf ever actually uses a shield or buckler if they're holding a crossbow - they might be using it 2 handed in melee as well (and I more than suspect they are).

:The way you suspect it to work is, I'd guess, the way it's ''supposed'' to work... whether that has anything to do with the way it ''does'' work is another guess.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 14:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:I've found that the best way is not to assign a buckler/shield at all. They then will use the free hand to carry practice bolts while off duty, while keeping metal bolts in the quiver for use at a moments notice. I suppose if the dwarf was done training, then you could assign a buckler.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 19:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== ARMOR ARTICLE SPLIT/COMBINING?==

[[Leather Armor]], should have it's own page. It is an item, like platemail.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:22, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

:I've been thinking about the "armour" category in general - every different item does not need its very own page. What is there to say about "leather armour" (the item, not the suit)? Look at [[low boot]], or [[leggings]] vs. [[greaves]] - waste of time to have to go to a diff page for each, and it currently takes ''how many'' to get a full picture of "armour"? Isn't this the type of thing that can be all combined into one more useful page?
::*Armor - general
::*Suits of Armor - the 5 basic parts
:::*of leather
:::*of chain
:::*of plate
:*layering
:*known quirks and bugs
:Maybe one page with all pieces, and then another (this) with all the misc information.[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

::I'm thinking of something more along the lines of a page for the different sets, combining the different separate pages for each item of armor.

:::There is a discussion about this page on a user talk page. ''Please discuss the Armor page here.'' And please state any problems or conflicts with the Armor page, so they can be evaluated and discussed.
:::Personally, I have few problems with the page. But then I pretty much know everything the page states, and while I like the comprehensive, factual style of the page it may not be the best style for educating new players. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 14:12, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

(DELETED COMMENTS ON OVER-ENTHUSIASM. Non-relevant now. We move forward.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

===Improving presentation of "Armor" ===

I think the larger point (echoed from posts above) is that, as is, the article makes sense to those who understand it - but isn't optimized for those who don't. There are 3 general problems that I perceive with the articles (plural) as they stand, and those same 3 areas I'd like to see addressed:
:* Scattered information - too many stub articles about individual armour pieces or one tiny facet of "armour".
:* No clean, unified "This all you need (to know) for leather armor", "This what you need (to know) for chain armor" (sub)articles.
:* This article is already borderline too long. Info is getting lost, readers are getting boggled - need a concept split between basic vs. advanced (or something sim). There are 11 sections, w/ some hefty sub-sections - that's too many by half.

(And I think we have to concede that answering the rather arcane question of ''"How does it work, EXACTLY?"'' will be an ongoing process, I'm afraid.)

Spotting problems is easy and cheap - solving them is the tough part. A user wants "all" relevant information in front of them, and not much more - and that'll be diff for each user. But I think we can take a stab at a generally applicable organization. I'd suggest this (as a starting point for this process, ~if~ it's agreed it needs to be addressed) -

2 articles; #1 deals w/ armor at face value for those not interested in the details (what each piece is, how they fit together into suits, how a dwarf puts them on, what craft/shop builds what), and #2 deals with the numbers for the number crunchers and optimizers (repetition of quality/material tables, damblock numbers, and all that issue.) For those Players who are comfortable in the simple (and correct) assumption that chain armour is "better" than leather, the first page gives them all they need to know (perhaps w/ hints & links beyond). For those who need more (a little or a lot), they go to the second page, where they'll find the Protection and Weight tables, and all the details that are teased slowly from the tags and RAW's.

Off the top of my head, I'd call the first page "Armor Guide" (fitting into Category: Guide) - all current "armor" articles would redirect to that one, at least. The second (advanced) article might be titled something like "Armor details" or "Armor values" or "Armor explained", and have all the stuff that boggles the unprepared. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
::I think the creation of armor belongs somewhere else in the wiki. The types of armor should be defined first, with all the exceptions and rules explained in a single article. Another article on the way the pieces layer on top of each other, and a final section of the second article for the defense bonuses of each item and the coverage, and all the other good and juicy technical things. The current layout is two biased towards traditional thinking, and is like trying to push the triangle block into the circle hole in those toys for tykes. It just doesn't fit the technicality that is dwarf fortress.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:53, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I agree re "making armor" - under "Armorsmith" seems reasonable. "Layering" is part of wearing, if an advanced part and one that is often overlooked ''(possibly because that article is lost among so much other bandwidth.)'' I think (depending on final size of the article, and number of sub-sections), that could be put at the bottom of the same page as definitions/how to use, so it's not separate from "suits", but works hand in hand with that info. That would give us a format that looks ''something'' like...
:*Article #1: Armor Guide:
::*Individual Pieces - (copied & improved from the various stub articles, which all then become redirects)
::**the 3 (4?) Levels (lthr, chain, plate - and clothing)
::*Using Armor - basic "how to" (not "advice" or strategies, unless universal warnings)
:::*Layering
::*Shields & Bucklers
::*"Misc" ("oddities") - sizes, wrestling, etc.
:::(deleted/redirected: "Making Armor" & "requirements" -> Armorsmith; possibly dump value table & quality table - redundant)

:*Article #2: "Armor Analysis" - number cruncher's bible ''(needs a better name)''
::*damblock/protection values
::*Chart showing Analysis of diff types/combo's
::*weight explanation
::*size/permit explanation

:::That puts everything the new/intermediate player needs to know about armour on 1 page, and all the "behind the scenes data" on another. Easy conceptual split.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

== Plate over chainmail changed? ==

I cannot get my dwarves to wear plate over chainmail. If I order them to wear chainmail, they wear it, including both a cap and a helm. If I order them to wear plate, they do indeed take off the chainmail first. I think this has been fixed, so I'm putting the appropriate 'verify' tags on the article. I also wonder if the helm-over-cap was always intended, rather than a glitch caused by stepping through armour levels. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 06:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:This has always been treated as a feature, not a bug, but whatever. It is called "layering armor". Dwarfs are also able to wear chain over leather, but not a "lighter" armor over a heavier one. I just tried it, and it works fine - chain over leather, plate over chain, no problem. (Oddly, they won't wear plate mail over leather armor, but such a step-up will cause the cap/helm layering.) vanilla 40d.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

::It's a little more complicated. The '''size and permit''' section of the article explains armor layering. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:22, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Well, that's very strange, then. I've got steel chainmail and steel plate mail, and per above, if I go nothing → chain → plate (giving them time to put everything on at each step), they put almost everything on at the "chain" stage (including both a steel cap and steel helm), and then promptly ditch their chainmail in favour of plate at the "plate" stage. Am I misunderstanding this? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 17:36, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

::::"Chain" and "Plate" level armours (the full suits) both include boots, gauntlets, helmet and possibly a steel cap underneath. Chain leggings would get ditched in favour of greaves, but the torso piece, the "chain armour", should still be seen in inventory along with "plate armour".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:::::Unless of course, we are totally wrong. Which is entirely possible.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

:Okay, so I'm still trying this, and while I've gotten two dwarves to wear both cap + helm and chainmail + platemail, I can't seem to get a third one to do it. I can get the cap + helm by forbidding leather helms and going leather, so he wears a steel cap. Then, I go chain, so he wears a steel helm and a steel chainmail. Then I go plate, and he runs to put the plate on, but drops the chainmail on the spot (in the stockpile) when he puts on the plate. Am I doing something wrong here? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 11:24, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

::What else is the dwarf wearing? Is the third dwarf wearing different 'clothing' than the other two? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:17, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

:::One of the successful ones is wearing two pig tail dresses (one worn), trousers, and a sock. One of the unsuccessful ones is wearing two leather robes and trousers (all worn). Just retried that one, and still no go. I assume the robes are the problem, but there's apparently no way to get them gone. Guess I have to wait for them to wear out and fall off. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 22:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

== Example/consider shell..? ==
So if i read this right a masterful shell item gives the same protection as a no quality iron item? Thus i might consider using it in early game or in a tough game with no iron/steel..not even copper - or if my armorsmith is not yet able to produce higher qualities, but my carver is?

how to factor in weight? -is encumbrance only making dwarves slower or also fight worse?
:Not sure about %'s, but over-encumbrance will make a dwarf move slower, so less actions/second, so less combat - in theory. (See [[Speed]] and subsection on [[Encumbrance]].) But at 50% for material x 2.0 for quality for masterful shell, vs 100% for material x 1.0 for quality for iron - yes, identical in protection. If you gained a Legendary bone carver, have no skilled armorsmith, and/or a lot more bone and shell than iron, that's a valid option until you can solve that lack.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:41, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Armor

2009-06-07T22:56:09Z

Wisq: /* Plate over chainmail changed? */

==Boots==
Corrected the matter with low and high boots. If you look at the raws you can see that the armor level of both boot types are the same and thus they can both be used as chain and plate armor. My games have proved this to me. Only real difference between the two boot types is that the high boot is heavier and protects more of the body than just the feet. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 05:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)

==clothes layers==
Does anyone know the rules of where you can wear each piece of armor? For example, can you wear a high boot and leggings? or only low boots with leggings? Do you need to make two boots? --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 20:30, 9 November 2007 (EST)

: You can wear high boots with leggings. Leggings and high boots have different layers. --[[User:JT|JT]] 17:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)

On a similar note, what's the difference between steel leggings and steel greaves? I would've thought leggings would cover below the knee as well. Do I need both to provide maximum Xtreme protection? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:17, 18 November 2007 (EST)

: As far as I can tell, greaves are the Plate class upgrade to leggings, which are Chain class lower body armor. Unlike upper body armor however, dwarves don't appear to be able to wear both leggings and greaves at once and will drop their leggings in favour of a set of greaves when set to Plate armor. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 14:03, 25 November 2007 (EST)

==Protection values==
I would like to know if it's possible to find out the various protection values of different types of armor. For example, we know the material and quality modifiers for armor, but not, say, how much better plate mail protects you than chain. Or whether greaves or high boots offer more coverage.
I ask because I'm wondering if, with high quality modifiers, [[adamantine]] ''clothing'' is viable protection for those who aren't wearing armor. Certainly, it'd make a good halfway measure for those who can't do magma smelting yet, but ''can'' get a Craftsdwarf's Workshop, Loom, and Clothesmaker's Workshop set up to extract the threads, weave them, and make clothes. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:48, 13 December 2007 (EST)

==Soldier==

I think some of this article, specifically that stuff in the Using armor section, should be moved over to an article more dedicated to soldier preferences. As it is, it's describing everything about arming civilians with weapons instead of simply talking about armoring civilians; that content seems more appropriate for an article about soldiers or the hunting article. --[[User:JT|JT]] 17:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)

==Verified==

I can verify that whan setting dwarves to chain, they wear gauntlets --[[User:Nog|Nog]] 16:21, 12 November 2007 (EST)

== Table ==

I added a Materials Needed section to the table. Is this OK? --[[User:Nanor|Nanor]] 19 December 2007

:Excellent idea. It looked a little odd in the table, so I moved it to the text instead. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 16:47, 19 December 2007 (EST)

:: Much better! Thanks! --[[User:Nanor|Nanor]] 17:50, 19 December 2007 (EST)

== 23.130.23a ==

We had much more info on armor in the [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Armor old wiki]. Could someone with an account there bring the relevant bits over? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)

:Edit: Ported over most information; change anything that isn't correct.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 13:06, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Leather Armor re: Caps and Helms ==

A soldier set to leather armor can wear leather helms, not just caps, and they'll wear a cap at the same time underneath (at least, if it's silk. I haven't confirmed yet if a soldier will wear a leather cap + a leather helm; doesn't really matter). This is a good thing because helms (according to the old wiki) have higher Block. They're heavier too but this shouldn't be a problem. --[[User:Stromko|Stromko]] 19:57:15 (PST), January 06 2007

:In the old versions, the materials of the armor pieces were irrelevant, regardless of the fact that the lowest armor level is called "leather". Leather and chain wearers would wear any kind of legging or boot, and a plate wearer would wear even a pig tail helm, if they happened to come across one, showing no preference for better material types or quality. Has this changed, or does the table in this article contain some wrong assumptions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:42, 7 January 2008 (EST)

::I seem to recall that 'light' materials like cloth, shell, and bone effectively 'downgraded' armor by one level, weighed half as much, and were 50% of the maximum effectiveness per their type. However! I can see right now in my current fortress a steel cap is 78 pounds and a cave spider silk cap is 13 pounds. This shows not all old information is correct.

Furthermore, bone and shell doesn't become a 'lighter' class. Shell Gauntlets require Chain or above to be assigned, and Turtle Bone Greaves go un-used until a dwarf is set to Plate.

However, I /can/ confirm from this very fortress I'm looking at right now, that dwarves assigned to leather went to pick up and wear Leather Helms. Unless, that is, they already have metal Caps. I'm looking at a marksdwarf right now assigned to wear Leather who has a Steel Cap, a pig tail hood (they all have hoods), and no helm. Everybody else has a leather helm.

I should note my fortress has no metal helms lying around, nor does it have spare metal caps, so I'm unable to verify that dwarves set to Leather wouldn't wear metal Helms or preferentially choose caps (they'd probably choose /either/ Metal Caps or Leather Helms if given a choice). However, I'm pretty sure they would not. Therefore, it is my understanding that they make a distinction between different material types. --[[User:Stromko|Stromko]] 03:22 (PST), January 07 2007

== Shields and Bucklers ==

Hmm it states here that dwarves can wear BOTH shields and bucklers, however in soldiering screen you can select EITHER shield OR buckler, but NOT both. Does this part of article apply to Adv. mode only? Could someone verify, please? --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 18:21, 24 February 2008 (EST)

I would guess the trick is to tell them to use bucklers first, waiting til they pick one up, then telling them to use shields, at which point they'll pick up a shield without dropping the buckler first. Like how you can get dwarves to wear a leather armour, chain mail, and plate on top all at the same time if you set them to leather, then chain, then plate. [[User:Furiousfish|Furiousfish]] 20:54, 6 March 2008 (EST)

== Natural Selection ==

Being a bit of a nooblet, and not having much war in any of my fortresses, I'm confused as to how armor selection works.

Would I be correct if I said "Setting a dwarf to wear Plate armor will cause him to grab plate whenever and wherever possible, but substitute leather, chain, or bone wherever no plate is available. So, for example, if my metalsmiths never make helms, but my leatherworker has caps and helms galore, they'll wear plate armor and a leather helm. Right? If so, this should probably be mentioned. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 19:24, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:I've found that a dwarf set to wear plate will grab the best available armor. More puzzling is that they will sometimes stack armor; IE dwarves wearing plate mail and chain mail at the same time. However, I never keep a stock of leather armor, so I wouldn't know if it can be used in conjunction with metal armor.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 22:29 21 April 2008 (EDT)
::The dwarves seem to be notorious for pulling on a full suit of armour ie chain-then-plate, there's a reason a fort I made (whose metal industry relies on eg [[coal]] and [[lignite]]) is making all chain-mail, crossbows and shields to defend against gobbo raids ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 09:13, 3 June 2008 (EDT)
Just wanted to point out that leather armor and plate can't be put on together.

== Gloves ==
My military is set to wear Leather armor, but they don't take leather gloves. High boots, leggings, armor and helmets are used OK. Is the article data incorrect?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:51, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

Some equipment is unavaliable for dwarf use because it is the incorrect size. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:40, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

My guess is that your dwarves are already wearing cloth gloves. This is considered clothing level armor, the same level as leather gloves. They see no reason to switch armor when the leather gloves provide the same "level of protection." I think your best bet would be to dump their cloth gloves, if you're that worried about them. You can always reclaim them later. --[[User:PrettyGrizzly|PrettyGrizzly]] 11:00, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

== Artifacts ==

This has an excellent table defining the bonuses for quality/materials, but completely excludes artifact modifiers. I would assume that these would always be the best, regardless, of material, but I just found myself with a rhesus macaque leather shield and don't know if I should use it in place of, oh, I don't know, a more ''steel'' one.
:Currently, the exact modifier for artifact quality seems to be unknown. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 18:27, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

==Fort-mode equipment quirks==

The edit I just made was prompted by seeing a dwarf wearing ''twelve'' cloaks, and remembering the "cannot wear cloaks" phrase mentioned in the pre-edit version of the bit below the giant table. I tried to reconcile the two statements that were already there, particularly in light of said cloak-happy dwarf. However, there's also one thing I'm wondering about: is the number of equipped items partially determined by what order they're put on in fortress mode? I ''think'' it is, but am not sure, so I decided not to include that. If it's the case, however, I think it'd be worth mentioning along with the cloaks part (even in the old version of the page, should somebody decide to revert my edit or something). --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 20:23, 6 July 2008 (EDT)
:Dungeon masters wear nothing but 12 colors of cloaks and mittens. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 13:07, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Over Under Armor Cover ==

Besides sounding like a Daft Punk chorus, these are four LAYER values. I know what Over and Under do with respect to each other: You can't wear Under on top of Over. Do the others follow the same pattern, are they all ordered? Is there some more mysterious effect for "Cover" and "Armor"? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 01:04, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Decorating Armor ==
Wasn't sure whether to ask this here or under gem setter - is it not possible to get a gem setter to decorate armor? I know leather armor can receive images and bone/shell decorations (and presumably the bone/shell applies to metal as well), I can't fathom why you can't put gems on suits of armor given that.... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:44, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:AFAIK no, it isn't possible to decorate armor or weapons. That's one of the more frequently requested additions on the forums.[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:33, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::It is, however, possible to acquire armor already decorated with gems via trade with a caravan. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:09, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:::Said armor would unlikely to be masterwork, nor with masterwork decorations. Nor would it be made of adamantine. I'm afraid its no real supplement. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:35, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::::Oh, sure, if you want to, like, *survive*. Instead of look pretty. Where are your priorities? :) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:50, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:::::I want to survive *and* look pretty. When faced with a choice of two appealing options, the correct choice is obviously 'yes'. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:01, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::::::I suppose you have a point. Oh, well, back to [[Decoration|Stud with platinum]]. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 19:25, 5 December 2008 (EST)

== Markdwarves only work with bucklers?!?! ==

I guess that makes sense since historically, bucklers were made to strap to the forearm and allow archers to use their bows...

Anyway, it seems my markdwarves don't like it when I make them use a shield. They stop carrying ammunition and won't practice shooting when off duty.

Is this the reason or is something else going on? Anyway, if it is indeed the case that markdwarves don't work with shields, it deserves mention, right?
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 13:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
:It's unclear, for this reason: ThreeToe has stated, point blank, that '''"The two handed code is broken right now... the crossbow is always two handed."''' So it's unclear if a marksdwarf ever actually uses a shield or buckler if they're holding a crossbow - they might be using it 2 handed in melee as well (and I more than suspect they are).

:The way you suspect it to work is, I'd guess, the way it's ''supposed'' to work... whether that has anything to do with the way it ''does'' work is another guess.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 14:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:I've found that the best way is not to assign a buckler/shield at all. They then will use the free hand to carry practice bolts while off duty, while keeping metal bolts in the quiver for use at a moments notice. I suppose if the dwarf was done training, then you could assign a buckler.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 19:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== ARMOR ARTICLE SPLIT/COMBINING?==

[[Leather Armor]], should have it's own page. It is an item, like platemail.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:22, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

:I've been thinking about the "armour" category in general - every different item does not need its very own page. What is there to say about "leather armour" (the item, not the suit)? Look at [[low boot]], or [[leggings]] vs. [[greaves]] - waste of time to have to go to a diff page for each, and it currently takes ''how many'' to get a full picture of "armour"? Isn't this the type of thing that can be all combined into one more useful page?
::*Armor - general
::*Suits of Armor - the 5 basic parts
:::*of leather
:::*of chain
:::*of plate
:*layering
:*known quirks and bugs
:Maybe one page with all pieces, and then another (this) with all the misc information.[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

::I'm thinking of something more along the lines of a page for the different sets, combining the different separate pages for each item of armor.

:::There is a discussion about this page on a user talk page. ''Please discuss the Armor page here.'' And please state any problems or conflicts with the Armor page, so they can be evaluated and discussed.
:::Personally, I have few problems with the page. But then I pretty much know everything the page states, and while I like the comprehensive, factual style of the page it may not be the best style for educating new players. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 14:12, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

(DELETED COMMENTS ON OVER-ENTHUSIASM. Non-relevant now. We move forward.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

===Improving presentation of "Armor" ===

I think the larger point (echoed from posts above) is that, as is, the article makes sense to those who understand it - but isn't optimized for those who don't. There are 3 general problems that I perceive with the articles (plural) as they stand, and those same 3 areas I'd like to see addressed:
:* Scattered information - too many stub articles about individual armour pieces or one tiny facet of "armour".
:* No clean, unified "This all you need (to know) for leather armor", "This what you need (to know) for chain armor" (sub)articles.
:* This article is already borderline too long. Info is getting lost, readers are getting boggled - need a concept split between basic vs. advanced (or something sim). There are 11 sections, w/ some hefty sub-sections - that's too many by half.

(And I think we have to concede that answering the rather arcane question of ''"How does it work, EXACTLY?"'' will be an ongoing process, I'm afraid.)

Spotting problems is easy and cheap - solving them is the tough part. A user wants "all" relevant information in front of them, and not much more - and that'll be diff for each user. But I think we can take a stab at a generally applicable organization. I'd suggest this (as a starting point for this process, ~if~ it's agreed it needs to be addressed) -

2 articles; #1 deals w/ armor at face value for those not interested in the details (what each piece is, how they fit together into suits, how a dwarf puts them on, what craft/shop builds what), and #2 deals with the numbers for the number crunchers and optimizers (repetition of quality/material tables, damblock numbers, and all that issue.) For those Players who are comfortable in the simple (and correct) assumption that chain armour is "better" than leather, the first page gives them all they need to know (perhaps w/ hints & links beyond). For those who need more (a little or a lot), they go to the second page, where they'll find the Protection and Weight tables, and all the details that are teased slowly from the tags and RAW's.

Off the top of my head, I'd call the first page "Armor Guide" (fitting into Category: Guide) - all current "armor" articles would redirect to that one, at least. The second (advanced) article might be titled something like "Armor details" or "Armor values" or "Armor explained", and have all the stuff that boggles the unprepared. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
::I think the creation of armor belongs somewhere else in the wiki. The types of armor should be defined first, with all the exceptions and rules explained in a single article. Another article on the way the pieces layer on top of each other, and a final section of the second article for the defense bonuses of each item and the coverage, and all the other good and juicy technical things. The current layout is two biased towards traditional thinking, and is like trying to push the triangle block into the circle hole in those toys for tykes. It just doesn't fit the technicality that is dwarf fortress.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:53, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I agree re "making armor" - under "Armorsmith" seems reasonable. "Layering" is part of wearing, if an advanced part and one that is often overlooked ''(possibly because that article is lost among so much other bandwidth.)'' I think (depending on final size of the article, and number of sub-sections), that could be put at the bottom of the same page as definitions/how to use, so it's not separate from "suits", but works hand in hand with that info. That would give us a format that looks ''something'' like...
:*Article #1: Armor Guide:
::*Individual Pieces - (copied & improved from the various stub articles, which all then become redirects)
::**the 3 (4?) Levels (lthr, chain, plate - and clothing)
::*Using Armor - basic "how to" (not "advice" or strategies, unless universal warnings)
:::*Layering
::*Shields & Bucklers
::*"Misc" ("oddities") - sizes, wrestling, etc.
:::(deleted/redirected: "Making Armor" & "requirements" -> Armorsmith; possibly dump value table & quality table - redundant)

:*Article #2: "Armor Analysis" - number cruncher's bible ''(needs a better name)''
::*damblock/protection values
::*Chart showing Analysis of diff types/combo's
::*weight explanation
::*size/permit explanation

:::That puts everything the new/intermediate player needs to know about armour on 1 page, and all the "behind the scenes data" on another. Easy conceptual split.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

== Plate over chainmail changed? ==

I cannot get my dwarves to wear plate over chainmail. If I order them to wear chainmail, they wear it, including both a cap and a helm. If I order them to wear plate, they do indeed take off the chainmail first. I think this has been fixed, so I'm putting the appropriate 'verify' tags on the article. I also wonder if the helm-over-cap was always intended, rather than a glitch caused by stepping through armour levels. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 06:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:This has always been treated as a feature, not a bug, but whatever. It is called "layering armor". Dwarfs are also able to wear chain over leather, but not a "lighter" armor over a heavier one. I just tried it, and it works fine - chain over leather, plate over chain, no problem. (Oddly, they won't wear plate mail over leather armor, but such a step-up will cause the cap/helm layering.) vanilla 40d.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

::It's a little more complicated. The '''size and permit''' section of the article explains armor layering. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:22, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Well, that's very strange, then. I've got steel chainmail and steel plate mail, and per above, if I go nothing → chain → plate (giving them time to put everything on at each step), they put almost everything on at the "chain" stage (including both a steel cap and steel helm), and then promptly ditch their chainmail in favour of plate at the "plate" stage. Am I misunderstanding this? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 17:36, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

::::"Chain" and "Plate" level armours (the full suits) both include boots, gauntlets, helmet and possibly a steel cap underneath. Chain leggings would get ditched in favour of greaves, but the torso piece, the "chain armour", should still be seen in inventory along with "plate armour".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:::::Unless of course, we are totally wrong. Which is entirely possible.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

:Okay, so I'm still trying this, and while I've gotten two dwarves to wear both cap + helm and chainmail + platemail, I can't seem to get a third one to do it. I can get the cap + helm by forbidding leather helms and going leather, so he wears a steel cap. Then, I go chain, so he wears a steel helm and a steel chainmail. Then I go plate, and he runs to put the plate on, but drops the chainmail on the spot (in the stockpile) when he puts on the plate. Am I doing something wrong here? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 11:24, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

::What else is the dwarf wearing? Is the third dwarf wearing different 'clothing' than the other two? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:17, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

:::One of the successful ones is wearing two pig tail dresses (one worn), trousers, and a sock. One of the unsuccessful ones is wearing two leather robes and trousers (all worn). Just retried that one, and still no go. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 22:56, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

== Example/consider shell..? ==
So if i read this right a masterful shell item gives the same protection as a no quality iron item? Thus i might consider using it in early game or in a tough game with no iron/steel..not even copper - or if my armorsmith is not yet able to produce higher qualities, but my carver is?

how to factor in weight? -is encumbrance only making dwarves slower or also fight worse?
:Not sure about %'s, but over-encumbrance will make a dwarf move slower, so less actions/second, so less combat - in theory. (See [[Speed]] and subsection on [[Encumbrance]].) But at 50% for material x 2.0 for quality for masterful shell, vs 100% for material x 1.0 for quality for iron - yes, identical in protection. If you gained a Legendary bone carver, have no skilled armorsmith, and/or a lot more bone and shell than iron, that's a valid option until you can solve that lack.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:41, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Sparring

2009-06-07T21:12:54Z

Wisq: /* Changing wrestler occupation */

== Miners using Mining skill ==

I've noticed my miners tend to get legendary in Miner rather than Wrestler while sparring. So not only do they use their picks and Mining skill in combat, they gain XP in that as well. Can anyone confirm? [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:45, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

:I read the Dwarf Fortress forums a while ago, and picks indeed use the mining skill for combat. Seems like picks are counted as spears with 40% damage reduction ( or atleast I think it was damage ) but have an insane critical rate. So a legendary miner will be able to hold of a horde of goblins all by himself, provided you can get a civilian to attack and dodge, since civilians are not inclined to attack enemies and do not use armor... --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 04:34, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::Draft 'im, I guess. I've occasionally had the fortune of having a legendary miner happen to be in the area when a goblin ambush was sprung, and they've generally done quite well for "recruits" - goblins go flying everywhere. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 16:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

While we're on the subject, do miners hit Hero status if drafted to fight with their pick? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:20, 19 December 2008 (EST)
:I can confirm to you that they do not. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:55, 19 December 2008 (EST)

==Speed of training in combat and in sparring==

One thing I've noticed is that my crossbow dwarves seem to gain experience quicker in combat than in target practice at the archery range. Whilst this might be down to availability of ammunition, maybe experience from sparring isn't worth as much as from the real thing, which would make sense. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 11:22, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

:It could also be that in combat, the marksdwarves are getting armor/shield user skill on top of their marksdwarf skill, which target practice doesn't do anything for --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:34, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

::They get it faster in combat. Perhaps by an order of magnitude. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:42, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

:::...yeah, that'd do it. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 16:57, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::I've witnessed something similar to this with recruits that are unarmed. What had happened was the recruits went into combat with some ambushers and jumped a few levels in wrestling fairly quickly. While Recruits who didn't fight but only spared took about a season to get the same skill in wrestling. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 15:41, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

== Training when and with who ==

Would it be better to train everyone at different times?
People won't get as injured when sparring with someone with around equal attributes...I think.
And to do that you'll need to deactivate or put on duty those with high strength in case thats something that you can do to prevent injury. Or put those who are strong defensively with those who need training. Also, what I thought, since every job might develop some attributes slower than sparring or pumping, is to put them through training when their skills and use are not as needed and when they are needed again, they would be more efficient.
Is that painfully obvious to everyone else?
Something for everyone to figure out for themselves?
...yeah.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 08:25, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

== Danger ==

I once had a dorf who arrived in a migrnat wave and was and Axedwarf. As soon as he started sparring he cut of some guys head. Is there a way to change this? [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 10:52, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

:Undraft him. Give him a worse weapon. Give the other guys armour. Don't put him on sparring. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 02:36, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

::Heh, same question but my dorf is a swordsdwarf... the only one in the place with a steel sword and steel armour... my poor conscripts don't stand a chance with their leather armour and wooden shields apparently. Oh well at least he didn't kill my overly fertile recruit mayor (it seems she must be popular, maybe that explains all the babies she keeps having)...
::My thought had been to use my first real millitary dwarf as the squad leader but what kind of NCO goes around killing the troops during training![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:18, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Haven't dealt with a PO'd SGM have ya? :P --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:19, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Dwarven soldiers never intentionally kill one another during training. However, imagine if during the modern world, karate teachers taught their students sword technique by using steel weapons. You'd have a lot of dead students there, too. In this sense DF is quite realistic; the problem is that the game doesn't yet allow dwarves to use non-lethal practice weapons instead, short of making players jump through hoops. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:57, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

:I always put my trainees into a separate squad from anyone that hasn't undergone my training and equipping regime. Typically eliminates accidents like these, and helps keep my troops uniform, both in skill and equipment. Infact, they tend to stay in my trainee squad until they hit Elite level. Those that come pre-trained/equipped are usually placed into a 2nd squad and used as active guards. My civilian populace is placed into a 3rd squad lead by my favored dwarf.
:Squad 1 is almost always drafted and off duty, Squad Two is always on duty and either chasing down cretins or standing guard at my entrance for thieves and the like. Third Squad rarely is activated except in times of siege as an emergency retreat measure to force them to evacuate to behind the barracks. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:19, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

== Metal Bolts + Target Practice ==

"metal bolts will not be wasted on target practice."

I'm not sure if this is true in the latest version - I think target practice uses the least valuable of all bolts available. In my current fortress I witnessed marksdwarves using no-adjective iron bolts for target practice when masterpiece bone bolts (most of them with extra adornment) were the other available ones. --[[User:Felix the Cat|Felix the Cat]] 23:17, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

== Sparring Injuries From Furniture ==

I noticed that my soldiers were receiving a lot of brain and spinal injuries when sparring in a bedroom barracks. They were all wrestling, and using full bronze plate and bronze shields. The room layout looked like this:

####+####
#.......#
#.B.B.B.#
#.......#
+.B.B.B.+
#.......#
#.B.B.B.#
#.......#
####+####

Once I moved them to an empty barracks defined from a weapon rack, there were no more brain/spine injuries until they became legendary wrestlers/shield users and I switched them to weapon training. A single dwarf received a spinal injury afterwards, but not before achieving "great macedwarf" status. The others (9 of them) trained up to legendary weapon user status without incident.

Can anyone else verify that the presence of furniture in barracks increases the rate of sparring injuries? If so, this should be added to the artcle. --[[User:Chris Acheson|Chris Acheson]] 12:37, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

:I haven't witnessed this. My barracks is littered with beds, and only one of my dwarves got a brain injury (light gray) while training up to champion (first marksdwarf, then wrestling, then weapons). I didn't even have them in especially good armor at first. Perhaps you just got unlucky.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:16, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

== Fortress guard ==

I know that the Fortress and Royal guards spar with great zeal, but will they use archery ranges if assigned crossbows? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 11:26, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
:Turns out yes, but not consistently. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 12:12, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
::Can anyone provide some additional experiences with guards being assigned crossbows? In fort A, they practiced until they ran out of bolts and then proceeded to spar with the crossbows in melee; in fort B, they practiced like once a month and never sparred in melee. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:35, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
:::As far as I can tell with my current batch of dwarves, the less skill they have the more often they will opt to use the archery targets rather than spar in the barracks. Not sure why, but some dwarves just do not like using archery targets it seems, even when they have bolts in their quivers. Here's a couple methods I've found work well in getting my dwarves back to the archery targets:
:::* Forbid all metal bolts
:::* Set weapon to unarmed, armor to clothes, and shield to none, then give crossbows back
:::* Dump/forbid all stacks of bolts smaller than 5 big
:::* Set them to carry no food/water (Make sure they drop waterskin/backpack)
:::* Ensure there are no sparring partners available (no Barracks or off duty Wrestlers/Hammerdwarves works)
:::--[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 16:19, 4 February 2009 (EST)

== Speed of Training while Sparring ==

I have noticed something abnormal between dwarves that train.

I Drafted 8 or so dwarves at roughly the same time. I have them all off duty and in their own individual squads right now since all of them being in a squad didn't seem to make a difference.

What I'm noticing is that some Dwarves shoot up in wrestling skill tremendously fast, almost unrealistically. While some Dwarves train so slowly that while I have Dwarves at Champion level others are still only proficient wrestlers. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 18:07, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

I noticed it as well --[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 19:37, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:I had a super-legendary miner go from Dabbling to Great wrestler tussling with just a single zombie Giant Rat. Then again, the fight took what seemed like several in-game days, during which the miner got pretty badly injured before he finally finished the rat off. I had drafted him to ensure that he would fight back properly... and because he hit 'Great', he became a [[Hero]] and would never work again, despite being my best miner... and mayor. And manager. And broker. Heh.

:Where sparring dwarves are concerned, I've found that sometimes while changing armor they fail to drop the items they're taking off, and extra stuff in the hands causes them to be unable to use their weapon or shield. They still spar, but apparently as wrestlers.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:39, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:Oh, it just occurred to me. If they get even a minor brain, neck, or spine injury, they'll never heal, and never spar again. Are the ones that aren't advancing injured?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:19, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

== Happy Thoughts from Killing a Sparring Partner ==

One of my dwarves accidentally killed another in a sparring session, but received a happy thought. His profile says he took joy in slaughter lately, and this is his only kill. The other dwarf didn't die instantly, he suffocated. Is this something isolated? - [[User:Ducky|Ducky]] 15:02, 30 November 2008 (EST)
:I've experienced something similar. In my case the dwarf who killed his sparring partner (a friend) received a happy thought for taking joy in slaughter, but an unhappy thought from losing said friend to tragedy. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 16:26, 4 February 2009 (EST)

== Changing wrestler occupation ==

It seems impossible to make a crossbow dwarf from elite/hero wrestler. They will pick up crossbows, but not bolts, and will not practice at shooting range. This is VERY sad. A bug? --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 20:04, 9 March 2009 (EDT)

:Its likely they are holding something they grabbed while wrestling. My champion wrestlers will practice at the shooting range, just very rarely, even when I have in excess of 2000 miscellaneous bolts. Most of the time after they fire a stack of bolts they get grabbed by another soldier/guard to go sparring before they get a chance to grab more bolts. Long term soldiers also get the life doesn't mean much to them anymore thought, which I'm assuming makes them less motivated. A couple of the other discussion topics on this page cover getting dwarves back to the archery targets. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 04:58, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

I can both confirm and deny Alpha's observation at the same time. ;) I have one dwarf I trained to legendary in wrestling, then gave him a bow and set him up an archery range, and he's a legendary marksdwarf now, no problem. I have two others I tried the same thing on, and they will neither pick up bolts nor use the range — hell, they continue to '''spar''' even, and are pretty much set to be changed into hammerdwarves, given how much they've been bashing their sparring partners with their ammo-less crossbows. (Good thing I use heavy armour on my marksdwarves, or they'd probably be paste by now from the unanticipated continued sparring.)

Interestingly, I also had two legendary wrestlers / novice axedwarves who refused to do much sparring at all; all their axedwarf skill came from manually taking them out into the desert and hunting the local wildlife. I just assigned them the exact same bows my no-shooting bow trainees were using, and they're now happily carrying steel bolts in their quiver and using bone ones at the archery range. Nobody has any injuries, so it's not unhealed spinal injuries or anything. Best guess is, this is just some sort of bug where they get stuck in "want to melee / spar" or "want to shoot / practice" mode and refuse to do the other one. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 21:12, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

== Wrasslin' ==

I had some instances of axedwarves and wrestlers sparring. After a few minutes, the axedwarves became wrestlers, even though they were using axes. How does this work?

:The wrestlers grapple with the axedwarves, the axedwarves have to grapple back, they get wrestling experience. This tends to build experience in wrestling faster than hitting stuff with weapons trains weapon skills, so their wrestler skill outstrips their axe skill.

40d Talk:Sparring

2009-06-07T21:12:40Z

Wisq: /* Changing wrestler occupation */

== Miners using Mining skill ==

I've noticed my miners tend to get legendary in Miner rather than Wrestler while sparring. So not only do they use their picks and Mining skill in combat, they gain XP in that as well. Can anyone confirm? [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:45, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

:I read the Dwarf Fortress forums a while ago, and picks indeed use the mining skill for combat. Seems like picks are counted as spears with 40% damage reduction ( or atleast I think it was damage ) but have an insane critical rate. So a legendary miner will be able to hold of a horde of goblins all by himself, provided you can get a civilian to attack and dodge, since civilians are not inclined to attack enemies and do not use armor... --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 04:34, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::Draft 'im, I guess. I've occasionally had the fortune of having a legendary miner happen to be in the area when a goblin ambush was sprung, and they've generally done quite well for "recruits" - goblins go flying everywhere. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 16:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

While we're on the subject, do miners hit Hero status if drafted to fight with their pick? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:20, 19 December 2008 (EST)
:I can confirm to you that they do not. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:55, 19 December 2008 (EST)

==Speed of training in combat and in sparring==

One thing I've noticed is that my crossbow dwarves seem to gain experience quicker in combat than in target practice at the archery range. Whilst this might be down to availability of ammunition, maybe experience from sparring isn't worth as much as from the real thing, which would make sense. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 11:22, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

:It could also be that in combat, the marksdwarves are getting armor/shield user skill on top of their marksdwarf skill, which target practice doesn't do anything for --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:34, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

::They get it faster in combat. Perhaps by an order of magnitude. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:42, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

:::...yeah, that'd do it. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 16:57, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::I've witnessed something similar to this with recruits that are unarmed. What had happened was the recruits went into combat with some ambushers and jumped a few levels in wrestling fairly quickly. While Recruits who didn't fight but only spared took about a season to get the same skill in wrestling. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 15:41, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

== Training when and with who ==

Would it be better to train everyone at different times?
People won't get as injured when sparring with someone with around equal attributes...I think.
And to do that you'll need to deactivate or put on duty those with high strength in case thats something that you can do to prevent injury. Or put those who are strong defensively with those who need training. Also, what I thought, since every job might develop some attributes slower than sparring or pumping, is to put them through training when their skills and use are not as needed and when they are needed again, they would be more efficient.
Is that painfully obvious to everyone else?
Something for everyone to figure out for themselves?
...yeah.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 08:25, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

== Danger ==

I once had a dorf who arrived in a migrnat wave and was and Axedwarf. As soon as he started sparring he cut of some guys head. Is there a way to change this? [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 10:52, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

:Undraft him. Give him a worse weapon. Give the other guys armour. Don't put him on sparring. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 02:36, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

::Heh, same question but my dorf is a swordsdwarf... the only one in the place with a steel sword and steel armour... my poor conscripts don't stand a chance with their leather armour and wooden shields apparently. Oh well at least he didn't kill my overly fertile recruit mayor (it seems she must be popular, maybe that explains all the babies she keeps having)...
::My thought had been to use my first real millitary dwarf as the squad leader but what kind of NCO goes around killing the troops during training![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:18, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Haven't dealt with a PO'd SGM have ya? :P --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:19, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Dwarven soldiers never intentionally kill one another during training. However, imagine if during the modern world, karate teachers taught their students sword technique by using steel weapons. You'd have a lot of dead students there, too. In this sense DF is quite realistic; the problem is that the game doesn't yet allow dwarves to use non-lethal practice weapons instead, short of making players jump through hoops. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:57, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

:I always put my trainees into a separate squad from anyone that hasn't undergone my training and equipping regime. Typically eliminates accidents like these, and helps keep my troops uniform, both in skill and equipment. Infact, they tend to stay in my trainee squad until they hit Elite level. Those that come pre-trained/equipped are usually placed into a 2nd squad and used as active guards. My civilian populace is placed into a 3rd squad lead by my favored dwarf.
:Squad 1 is almost always drafted and off duty, Squad Two is always on duty and either chasing down cretins or standing guard at my entrance for thieves and the like. Third Squad rarely is activated except in times of siege as an emergency retreat measure to force them to evacuate to behind the barracks. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:19, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

== Metal Bolts + Target Practice ==

"metal bolts will not be wasted on target practice."

I'm not sure if this is true in the latest version - I think target practice uses the least valuable of all bolts available. In my current fortress I witnessed marksdwarves using no-adjective iron bolts for target practice when masterpiece bone bolts (most of them with extra adornment) were the other available ones. --[[User:Felix the Cat|Felix the Cat]] 23:17, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

== Sparring Injuries From Furniture ==

I noticed that my soldiers were receiving a lot of brain and spinal injuries when sparring in a bedroom barracks. They were all wrestling, and using full bronze plate and bronze shields. The room layout looked like this:

####+####
#.......#
#.B.B.B.#
#.......#
+.B.B.B.+
#.......#
#.B.B.B.#
#.......#
####+####

Once I moved them to an empty barracks defined from a weapon rack, there were no more brain/spine injuries until they became legendary wrestlers/shield users and I switched them to weapon training. A single dwarf received a spinal injury afterwards, but not before achieving "great macedwarf" status. The others (9 of them) trained up to legendary weapon user status without incident.

Can anyone else verify that the presence of furniture in barracks increases the rate of sparring injuries? If so, this should be added to the artcle. --[[User:Chris Acheson|Chris Acheson]] 12:37, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

:I haven't witnessed this. My barracks is littered with beds, and only one of my dwarves got a brain injury (light gray) while training up to champion (first marksdwarf, then wrestling, then weapons). I didn't even have them in especially good armor at first. Perhaps you just got unlucky.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:16, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

== Fortress guard ==

I know that the Fortress and Royal guards spar with great zeal, but will they use archery ranges if assigned crossbows? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 11:26, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
:Turns out yes, but not consistently. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 12:12, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
::Can anyone provide some additional experiences with guards being assigned crossbows? In fort A, they practiced until they ran out of bolts and then proceeded to spar with the crossbows in melee; in fort B, they practiced like once a month and never sparred in melee. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:35, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
:::As far as I can tell with my current batch of dwarves, the less skill they have the more often they will opt to use the archery targets rather than spar in the barracks. Not sure why, but some dwarves just do not like using archery targets it seems, even when they have bolts in their quivers. Here's a couple methods I've found work well in getting my dwarves back to the archery targets:
:::* Forbid all metal bolts
:::* Set weapon to unarmed, armor to clothes, and shield to none, then give crossbows back
:::* Dump/forbid all stacks of bolts smaller than 5 big
:::* Set them to carry no food/water (Make sure they drop waterskin/backpack)
:::* Ensure there are no sparring partners available (no Barracks or off duty Wrestlers/Hammerdwarves works)
:::--[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 16:19, 4 February 2009 (EST)

== Speed of Training while Sparring ==

I have noticed something abnormal between dwarves that train.

I Drafted 8 or so dwarves at roughly the same time. I have them all off duty and in their own individual squads right now since all of them being in a squad didn't seem to make a difference.

What I'm noticing is that some Dwarves shoot up in wrestling skill tremendously fast, almost unrealistically. While some Dwarves train so slowly that while I have Dwarves at Champion level others are still only proficient wrestlers. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 18:07, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

I noticed it as well --[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 19:37, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:I had a super-legendary miner go from Dabbling to Great wrestler tussling with just a single zombie Giant Rat. Then again, the fight took what seemed like several in-game days, during which the miner got pretty badly injured before he finally finished the rat off. I had drafted him to ensure that he would fight back properly... and because he hit 'Great', he became a [[Hero]] and would never work again, despite being my best miner... and mayor. And manager. And broker. Heh.

:Where sparring dwarves are concerned, I've found that sometimes while changing armor they fail to drop the items they're taking off, and extra stuff in the hands causes them to be unable to use their weapon or shield. They still spar, but apparently as wrestlers.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:39, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:Oh, it just occurred to me. If they get even a minor brain, neck, or spine injury, they'll never heal, and never spar again. Are the ones that aren't advancing injured?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:19, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

== Happy Thoughts from Killing a Sparring Partner ==

One of my dwarves accidentally killed another in a sparring session, but received a happy thought. His profile says he took joy in slaughter lately, and this is his only kill. The other dwarf didn't die instantly, he suffocated. Is this something isolated? - [[User:Ducky|Ducky]] 15:02, 30 November 2008 (EST)
:I've experienced something similar. In my case the dwarf who killed his sparring partner (a friend) received a happy thought for taking joy in slaughter, but an unhappy thought from losing said friend to tragedy. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 16:26, 4 February 2009 (EST)

== Changing wrestler occupation ==

It seems impossible to make a crossbow dwarf from elite/hero wrestler. They will pick up crossbows, but not bolts, and will not practice at shooting range. This is VERY sad. A bug? --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 20:04, 9 March 2009 (EDT)

:Its likely they are holding something they grabbed while wrestling. My champion wrestlers will practice at the shooting range, just very rarely, even when I have in excess of 2000 miscellaneous bolts. Most of the time after they fire a stack of bolts they get grabbed by another soldier/guard to go sparring before they get a chance to grab more bolts. Long term soldiers also get the life doesn't mean much to them anymore thought, which I'm assuming makes them less motivated. A couple of the other discussion topics on this page cover getting dwarves back to the archery targets. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 04:58, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

:I can both confirm and deny Alpha's observation at the same time. ;) I have one dwarf I trained to legendary in wrestling, then gave him a bow and set him up an archery range, and he's a legendary marksdwarf now, no problem. I have two others I tried the same thing on, and they will neither pick up bolts nor use the range — hell, they continue to '''spar''' even, and are pretty much set to be changed into hammerdwarves, given how much they've been bashing their sparring partners with their ammo-less crossbows. (Good thing I use heavy armour on my marksdwarves, or they'd probably be paste by now from the unanticipated continued sparring.)

:Interestingly, I also had two legendary wrestlers / novice axedwarves who refused to do much sparring at all; all their axedwarf skill came from manually taking them out into the desert and hunting the local wildlife. I just assigned them the exact same bows my no-shooting bow trainees were using, and they're now happily carrying steel bolts in their quiver and using bone ones at the archery range. Nobody has any injuries, so it's not unhealed spinal injuries or anything. Best guess is, this is just some sort of bug where they get stuck in "want to melee / spar" or "want to shoot / practice" mode and refuse to do the other one. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 21:12, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

== Wrasslin' ==

I had some instances of axedwarves and wrestlers sparring. After a few minutes, the axedwarves became wrestlers, even though they were using axes. How does this work?

:The wrestlers grapple with the axedwarves, the axedwarves have to grapple back, they get wrestling experience. This tends to build experience in wrestling faster than hitting stuff with weapons trains weapon skills, so their wrestler skill outstrips their axe skill.

40d Talk:Spear

2009-06-07T20:59:36Z

Wisq:

+2 chance out of what? Shouldn't this information be given in a neutral format, such as a percentage? Either that or there should be a link to a page explaining the combat mechanics. --[[User:Geofferic|Geofferic]] 02:16, 13 December 2007 (EST)
:The combat mechanic itself is too purely understood for now to say anything better then to compare which weapon has bigger number and so is better at certain things. Of course the +2 number can be substituted with a verbal description that would still mean exactly the same. :( --[[User:Another|Another]] 08:19, 13 December 2007 (EST)

== Other materials? ==
Um, my craftsdwarf just got possessed, and he made a bone spear. "this is a rhesus macaque bone spear, highest quality craftsdwarfship, adorned with hanging rings of birch. does anyone how much damage it will do? is it even possible? [[User:Destor|Destor]] 10:26, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
: Even though you can't make weapons out of bone normally (except bolts), it uses the same mod as wood (which is 50%). The modifier for being an artifact weapon is somewhere in the neighborhood of x3 (I think, I don't have and can't find any good data on it). So the artifact spear should be doing around 150 damage.

:People who have poked okay, peeked through the game's memory values suggest that artifacts and masterpieces have the same "quality" value, which probably means just x2 damage. We really need to ask Toady one of these days just to settle the question once and for all.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:27, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

40d Talk:Spear

2009-06-07T20:59:26Z

Wisq: /* Chance of getting stuck */ Removed, article has been fixed.

40d Talk:Sparring

2009-06-07T20:51:57Z

Wisq: /* Changing wrestler occupation */

== Miners using Mining skill ==

I've noticed my miners tend to get legendary in Miner rather than Wrestler while sparring. So not only do they use their picks and Mining skill in combat, they gain XP in that as well. Can anyone confirm? [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:45, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

:I read the Dwarf Fortress forums a while ago, and picks indeed use the mining skill for combat. Seems like picks are counted as spears with 40% damage reduction ( or atleast I think it was damage ) but have an insane critical rate. So a legendary miner will be able to hold of a horde of goblins all by himself, provided you can get a civilian to attack and dodge, since civilians are not inclined to attack enemies and do not use armor... --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 04:34, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::Draft 'im, I guess. I've occasionally had the fortune of having a legendary miner happen to be in the area when a goblin ambush was sprung, and they've generally done quite well for "recruits" - goblins go flying everywhere. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 16:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

While we're on the subject, do miners hit Hero status if drafted to fight with their pick? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:20, 19 December 2008 (EST)
:I can confirm to you that they do not. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:55, 19 December 2008 (EST)

==Speed of training in combat and in sparring==

One thing I've noticed is that my crossbow dwarves seem to gain experience quicker in combat than in target practice at the archery range. Whilst this might be down to availability of ammunition, maybe experience from sparring isn't worth as much as from the real thing, which would make sense. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 11:22, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

:It could also be that in combat, the marksdwarves are getting armor/shield user skill on top of their marksdwarf skill, which target practice doesn't do anything for --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:34, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

::They get it faster in combat. Perhaps by an order of magnitude. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:42, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

:::...yeah, that'd do it. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 16:57, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::I've witnessed something similar to this with recruits that are unarmed. What had happened was the recruits went into combat with some ambushers and jumped a few levels in wrestling fairly quickly. While Recruits who didn't fight but only spared took about a season to get the same skill in wrestling. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 15:41, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

== Training when and with who ==

Would it be better to train everyone at different times?
People won't get as injured when sparring with someone with around equal attributes...I think.
And to do that you'll need to deactivate or put on duty those with high strength in case thats something that you can do to prevent injury. Or put those who are strong defensively with those who need training. Also, what I thought, since every job might develop some attributes slower than sparring or pumping, is to put them through training when their skills and use are not as needed and when they are needed again, they would be more efficient.
Is that painfully obvious to everyone else?
Something for everyone to figure out for themselves?
...yeah.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 08:25, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

== Danger ==

I once had a dorf who arrived in a migrnat wave and was and Axedwarf. As soon as he started sparring he cut of some guys head. Is there a way to change this? [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 10:52, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

:Undraft him. Give him a worse weapon. Give the other guys armour. Don't put him on sparring. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 02:36, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

::Heh, same question but my dorf is a swordsdwarf... the only one in the place with a steel sword and steel armour... my poor conscripts don't stand a chance with their leather armour and wooden shields apparently. Oh well at least he didn't kill my overly fertile recruit mayor (it seems she must be popular, maybe that explains all the babies she keeps having)...
::My thought had been to use my first real millitary dwarf as the squad leader but what kind of NCO goes around killing the troops during training![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:18, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Haven't dealt with a PO'd SGM have ya? :P --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:19, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Dwarven soldiers never intentionally kill one another during training. However, imagine if during the modern world, karate teachers taught their students sword technique by using steel weapons. You'd have a lot of dead students there, too. In this sense DF is quite realistic; the problem is that the game doesn't yet allow dwarves to use non-lethal practice weapons instead, short of making players jump through hoops. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:57, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

:I always put my trainees into a separate squad from anyone that hasn't undergone my training and equipping regime. Typically eliminates accidents like these, and helps keep my troops uniform, both in skill and equipment. Infact, they tend to stay in my trainee squad until they hit Elite level. Those that come pre-trained/equipped are usually placed into a 2nd squad and used as active guards. My civilian populace is placed into a 3rd squad lead by my favored dwarf.
:Squad 1 is almost always drafted and off duty, Squad Two is always on duty and either chasing down cretins or standing guard at my entrance for thieves and the like. Third Squad rarely is activated except in times of siege as an emergency retreat measure to force them to evacuate to behind the barracks. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:19, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

== Metal Bolts + Target Practice ==

"metal bolts will not be wasted on target practice."

I'm not sure if this is true in the latest version - I think target practice uses the least valuable of all bolts available. In my current fortress I witnessed marksdwarves using no-adjective iron bolts for target practice when masterpiece bone bolts (most of them with extra adornment) were the other available ones. --[[User:Felix the Cat|Felix the Cat]] 23:17, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

== Sparring Injuries From Furniture ==

I noticed that my soldiers were receiving a lot of brain and spinal injuries when sparring in a bedroom barracks. They were all wrestling, and using full bronze plate and bronze shields. The room layout looked like this:

####+####
#.......#
#.B.B.B.#
#.......#
+.B.B.B.+
#.......#
#.B.B.B.#
#.......#
####+####

Once I moved them to an empty barracks defined from a weapon rack, there were no more brain/spine injuries until they became legendary wrestlers/shield users and I switched them to weapon training. A single dwarf received a spinal injury afterwards, but not before achieving "great macedwarf" status. The others (9 of them) trained up to legendary weapon user status without incident.

Can anyone else verify that the presence of furniture in barracks increases the rate of sparring injuries? If so, this should be added to the artcle. --[[User:Chris Acheson|Chris Acheson]] 12:37, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

:I haven't witnessed this. My barracks is littered with beds, and only one of my dwarves got a brain injury (light gray) while training up to champion (first marksdwarf, then wrestling, then weapons). I didn't even have them in especially good armor at first. Perhaps you just got unlucky.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:16, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

== Fortress guard ==

I know that the Fortress and Royal guards spar with great zeal, but will they use archery ranges if assigned crossbows? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 11:26, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
:Turns out yes, but not consistently. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 12:12, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
::Can anyone provide some additional experiences with guards being assigned crossbows? In fort A, they practiced until they ran out of bolts and then proceeded to spar with the crossbows in melee; in fort B, they practiced like once a month and never sparred in melee. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:35, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
:::As far as I can tell with my current batch of dwarves, the less skill they have the more often they will opt to use the archery targets rather than spar in the barracks. Not sure why, but some dwarves just do not like using archery targets it seems, even when they have bolts in their quivers. Here's a couple methods I've found work well in getting my dwarves back to the archery targets:
:::* Forbid all metal bolts
:::* Set weapon to unarmed, armor to clothes, and shield to none, then give crossbows back
:::* Dump/forbid all stacks of bolts smaller than 5 big
:::* Set them to carry no food/water (Make sure they drop waterskin/backpack)
:::* Ensure there are no sparring partners available (no Barracks or off duty Wrestlers/Hammerdwarves works)
:::--[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 16:19, 4 February 2009 (EST)

== Speed of Training while Sparring ==

I have noticed something abnormal between dwarves that train.

I Drafted 8 or so dwarves at roughly the same time. I have them all off duty and in their own individual squads right now since all of them being in a squad didn't seem to make a difference.

What I'm noticing is that some Dwarves shoot up in wrestling skill tremendously fast, almost unrealistically. While some Dwarves train so slowly that while I have Dwarves at Champion level others are still only proficient wrestlers. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 18:07, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

I noticed it as well --[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 19:37, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:I had a super-legendary miner go from Dabbling to Great wrestler tussling with just a single zombie Giant Rat. Then again, the fight took what seemed like several in-game days, during which the miner got pretty badly injured before he finally finished the rat off. I had drafted him to ensure that he would fight back properly... and because he hit 'Great', he became a [[Hero]] and would never work again, despite being my best miner... and mayor. And manager. And broker. Heh.

:Where sparring dwarves are concerned, I've found that sometimes while changing armor they fail to drop the items they're taking off, and extra stuff in the hands causes them to be unable to use their weapon or shield. They still spar, but apparently as wrestlers.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:39, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:Oh, it just occurred to me. If they get even a minor brain, neck, or spine injury, they'll never heal, and never spar again. Are the ones that aren't advancing injured?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:19, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

== Happy Thoughts from Killing a Sparring Partner ==

One of my dwarves accidentally killed another in a sparring session, but received a happy thought. His profile says he took joy in slaughter lately, and this is his only kill. The other dwarf didn't die instantly, he suffocated. Is this something isolated? - [[User:Ducky|Ducky]] 15:02, 30 November 2008 (EST)
:I've experienced something similar. In my case the dwarf who killed his sparring partner (a friend) received a happy thought for taking joy in slaughter, but an unhappy thought from losing said friend to tragedy. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 16:26, 4 February 2009 (EST)

== Changing wrestler occupation ==

It seems impossible to make a crossbow dwarf from elite/hero wrestler. They will pick up crossbows, but not bolts, and will not practice at shooting range. This is VERY sad. A bug? --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 20:04, 9 March 2009 (EDT)

:Its likely they are holding something they grabbed while wrestling. My champion wrestlers will practice at the shooting range, just very rarely, even when I have in excess of 2000 miscellaneous bolts. Most of the time after they fire a stack of bolts they get grabbed by another soldier/guard to go sparring before they get a chance to grab more bolts. Long term soldiers also get the life doesn't mean much to them anymore thought, which I'm assuming makes them less motivated. A couple of the other discussion topics on this page cover getting dwarves back to the archery targets. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 04:58, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

:I can both confirm and deny Alpha's observation at the same time. ;) I have one dwarf I trained to legendary in wrestling, then gave him a bow and set him up an archery range, and he's a legendary marksdwarf now, no problem. I have two others I tried the same thing on, and they will neither pick up bolts nor use the range — hell, they continue to '''spar''' even, and are pretty much set to be changed into hammerdwarves, given how much they've been bashing their sparring partners with their ammo-less crossbows. (Good thing I use heavy armour on my marksdwarves, or they'd probably be paste by now from the unanticipated continued sparring.) — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 20:51, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

== Wrasslin' ==

I had some instances of axedwarves and wrestlers sparring. After a few minutes, the axedwarves became wrestlers, even though they were using axes. How does this work?

:The wrestlers grapple with the axedwarves, the axedwarves have to grapple back, they get wrestling experience. This tends to build experience in wrestling faster than hitting stuff with weapons trains weapon skills, so their wrestler skill outstrips their axe skill.

40d Talk:Justice

2009-06-07T20:23:47Z

Wisq: /* Unnecessary? */ Yep!

== A cage for every man, woman and child! ==

One chain / restraint is needed for every 10 dwarves (but not parts thereof).
:I've not noticed such a rule in this version of DF. My Captain of the Guard(former sheriff) hasn't had a single unhappy thought about not having not enough restraints. Might it be, that in this version the thought is triggered, when all restraints are used up and the law enforcement doesn't have any place, where to put a criminal. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 01:43, 24 November 2007 (EST)

== Unnecessary? ==

Personally I never allocate the Sheriff or build a jail. The only crimes in my fortress are violations of work orders, and I'm not going to let my hardworking crafters sit in jail because some noble had a hissyfit because we didn't build platinum chairs on a map with no platinum. Now every time a work order expires, the noble gets an unhappy thought (so what, they live in a solid gold house), and the workers get ''happy thoughts'' for getting away with the "crime". [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 18:43, 6 March 2008 (EST)
: I guess you should pray you never get a [[Hammerer]] turning up then. Or pray that any arriving Hammerer meets an unfortunate end, due to an entirely unforseeable series of bizarre accidents... -- [[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 13:46, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

Actually, I've had a hammerer for years. She never lifts a finger, just eats and wanders around. I assume a jail must exist for the hammerer's justice jobs to be created, or something. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 20:34, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

Hm. I've been trying to ignore Justice, but my nobles keep going insane, with the only negative thought I can see being "angered that nobody could be punished". This last time I hadn't even missed a mandate. They don't ''quite'' live in a solid gold house, but it's close. In my last fortress, after my third Duke arrived I started building chains; then I noticed dwarves were getting Hammered and dying for mandate failures. Which way is worse? Maybe I'll just set a low pop cap and not worry about nobles. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 19:49, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

:Possibly disregard. I spent a while narrowing down exactly when my latest noble was going insane, only to find out that it's [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html bug 777] and will be fixed in the next version. Now I just have to buy all the iron off the caravan. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 17:46, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

Just a minor update to clarify a few things. I'm still playing, and still have no jails, a full cadre of nobles, and a hammerer who does nothing. Looking at the thoughts page for my nobles, they're definitely getting (multiple) unhappy thoughts from all the work orders I'm ignoring and the punishments I'm failing to deliver. And sometimes they dip below ecstatic for this reason, briefly. However, they then go and eat some masterwork food and sleep on their masterwork bed, and get happy thoughts for these events, so they're soon back up to ecstatic. If you want to ignore justice, just make sure your nobles live in the lap of luxury, and it'll balance out. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 12:31, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

:Justice is actually worse than unnecessary if you don't have nobles freaking out about unpunished criminals. I've been running a fort where I kill the baron/ess + consort + DM + hammerer + tax collector every time they show up; they're around long enough to issue mandates, but not long enough to have them fail, nor to be worried about unpunished prisoners, nor would I care if they were. I have a mayor, and she does get "upset by the delayed punishment of a criminal", which the [[thought]] page says is -5 to happiness. '''However,''' the "criminals" themselves are "glad to have punishment delayed recently", which is a +20 thought!

:So by ignoring justice in a noble-free fortress, one dwarf gets slightly bugged while the rest of the fort is happier than ever. Sounds like a pretty good deal! It seems that so long as everyone is happy enough that you don't '''need''' them put away in jail, ignoring justice is actually a major net positive. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 20:23, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

== Eternal Prisoners? ==

My Captain of the Guard never seems to release the prisoners, and they just starve to death or go mad in their cages. Is there any way to get them out? (Fun fact: Currently the lazy ass is responsible for more deaths than goblins, elves, mining accidents and humans put together) While I'm here, I have more than enough cages, but sometimes he just decides to beat the living daylights out of criminals instead of imprisoning them. There is a hammerer, but I've never seen her do anything but stuff her face and start parties. -[[User:Namako|Namako]] 14:44, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

The only solution i can propose is to remove the occupied cage or chain once the sentence is over. And while you're at it, why not try picking a new (happy) captian of the guard to see if it's not the result of your guard being crippled or retarded or something. [[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 02:25, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

==Beating==
Article says: the sheriff or fortress guard attack the dwarf unarmed for a short time - this punishment is used instead of imprisonment if the jail is full. But in my experience they do it with whatever weapon they have equipped, not unarmed. I won't believe, that my absolutely unskilled captain, who was assigned this duty after a minor lower spine injury, and who didn't have any military skill higher than dabbling, has mandled both legs and a shoulder of a prisoner unarmed... He was wielding a sword. --[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:55, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
:In fact the sheriff uses whatever he is holding in his hand. Same as with tantruming. My sheriff just killed a peasant using a *Dwarven Rum Barrel*. --[[User:Tobias|Tobias]] 09:15, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

==Waiting on injured criminals?==

My justice page lists thirty criminals, but only two have sentences listed -- one for hammerstrikes, one for imprisonment. The two dwarves with listed sentences are both injured. Are they holding up the whole justice process? Those two dwarves have spinal injuries and will never recover; any way to get the system moving again? --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 15:07, 2 September 2008 (EDT)
:To answer my own question: New offenders are added at the top of the list. So it appears that, until I find a solution, the older offenders are all safe from punishment due to the injured dwarves before them. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 18:00, 2 September 2008 (EDT)
::The ones without sentence are the ones, whose sentences has already expired--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:39, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

==Metal Chains are breakable==

[[Image:90f49e6c zincchainbroken.png|600px|thumb]]
I was under the impression that they were not breakable when the dwarf in question was tied to the chain. This Furnace Operator, though, seems to think otherwise. I think we should add a note about this. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:17, 7 January 2009 (EST)

I think he's destroying the building as a result of the tantrum. "Not breakable" doesn't mean they're invincible like constructions, but that a dwarf [i]tied[/i] to one cannot escape.

== Targets of Work Order Violations ==

How the hell do the nobles decide who gets punished for a work order violation?

I had one of my dwarves who was in the military since the beginning of time get punished for this, so it doesn't seem to be foistered on the dwarf most capable of completing the job or somesuch. Has anyone noticed a pattern or is it just totally random? [[User:Sensei|Sensei: Last seen somewhere in the Basic Jungle of Terror]] 02:32, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

40d:Immigration

2009-06-07T19:52:20Z

Wisq: /* How can I curb immigration? */ Finally verified the unverified migrant message. Also, changing "immigrants" to "migrants" because it's the trend and the string dump supports this.

'''Immigration''' can occur during any [[season]]. A '''migrant''' is a member of a wave of immigration.

Migrants will spawn at the edge of your local zone and move towards any meeting area that you have designated. They will travel single file from this one location until the last one of this wave has arrived.

If there is no meeting zone they will simply sit at the edge of the map until their "migrant" status fades and they find a [[job]]. Keep in mind that they can spawn on '''any''' open edge of the map, on any Z-axis; if there is no available path to your [[fortress]], they will sit and wait until one is opened up or until they go crazy and die. Some players have reported that their migrants spawn in the middle of nowhere. This behaviour is a bug, though an entertaining one.

By default, immigration will stop when your fortress reaches 200 or more, but you can change this in the [[init.txt]] file. It will take several years to reach this number, assuming you want to reach it at all. Once your population falls below this number, immigration will begin again.

== How immigration is calculated ==

Immigration figures are based on your fortress's total "Created [[Wealth]]", ''as reported by the Autumn dwarven [[caravan]].'' If, for any reason, the caravan does not arrive, or does not make it off the map alive the first year, no wealth is reported, and this will seriously hurt your chances for immigration. Later, if they fail to make it off your map, then the previous year's caravan report is used to determine this year's figures.{{verify}}. The other known factor that influences immigration is that dwarf deaths in your fortress will make immigrating dwarves scared, reducing immigrant numbers possibly down to zero. If this reduces the number of immigrants, the message announcing the seasonal immigrants will include comments to this effect.

Created Wealth is visible on the Status (['''z''']) screen once you get a [[broker]] with the [[appraiser]] skill). All objects with any [[value]] (including mined-out areas, [[bridge]]s, and just about every kind of created [[crafts|good]]) will be included in the total. [[Artifact]]s are one of the largest influences of fortress wealth. Artifacts made of precious resources and heavily [[decoration|decorated]] can potentially double fortress wealth early in the game. Forbidden items are included in your wealth "properly" as of [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_now.html 09/02/2008].

It is not a hard formula - identical fortresses with identical created wealth will tend to get more or less based on that wealth, but can experience some differences in the exact number arriving. The wealth seems to create a target number, and the exact number of immigrants varies around that target.

Immigration is rarely greater than 24 dwarves per wave, not including [[pet]]s, [[children|kids]] and spouses, though rarely larger numbers have been reported.

Immigration will be stopped if your fortress reaches the Population Cap set in the [[init]] file, but a given wave may cause your total to exceed that number. If your current population is even 1 less than the Population Cap, a full wave of 2 dozen (or more?) immigrants can arrive.

== When does Immigration usually occur? ==
Usually you have to wait until the dwarven [[caravan]] arrives - and leaves alive - in Autumn to start the immigrants on their way. If the caravan reports a high Created Wealth ''(of perhaps over 60,000? - an approximate number, there is no hard formula or known cutpoint)'', you can expect to receive maybe eight or more migrants in Winter after the Caravan, and/or more in the Spring following. If your dwarves are extremely productive, immigration can occur before the caravan arrives, in [[Autumn]] or even in [[Summer]] of your first year. Even with low created wealth, immigration does usually begin in Spring of the second year on.

Migrants seem to have a greater tendency to arrive in [[Spring]] and in greater numbers, but can arrive in any season.

==Immigrants' skills==
Migrants are never very skilled. They arrive with one of the following mixes:
:* [[Peasant]]s - No skills at all
:* Novice level (level 6) of two or three related skills from a single [[profession]]
:* A (no adjective) level (level 7) of a single [[skill]]
:* A [[Soldier]] - Novice level each of [[wrestler]], [[armor user]], one [[Weapons#Weapon & Military Skills|weapon skill]] (and shield user if not a [[marksdwarf]])

Migrants will sometimes bring their unskilled [[spouse]]s, [[child]]ren, and even their [[pet]] [[animal]]s. Children can perform some jobs, and will slowly grow to become adults, and any adult dwarf can be given any job, and eventually learn that [[skill]] while performing that [[labor]].

=== How to influence the types of dwarves that immigrate ===
Note that the greater the number of dwarven [[civilization]]s, the greater your ability to influence immigration.{{verify}}

The immigrants' [[skills]]/[[jobs|careers]] might be influenced by the type and number of [[workshops]] available, but also might be influenced by the population of the surviving dwarven civilizations. (Similar to that [[goblin]]s sometimes have [[human]]s in their armies, that were previously snatched from you!)

[[Soldiers]] will only arrive if you have made their type of [[weapon]]; if you make one [[battle axe]], you will only get [[axedwarf|axedwarves]]. If you make a [[crossbow]] and a [[war hammer]], you will get [[marksdwarf|marksdwarves]] and [[hammerdwarf|hammerdwarves]]. This is not affected by weapons brought to your fort; getting immigrant [[carpenter]]s won't let you get immigrant axedwarves. It is not known if the number of weapons created matters.{{verify}}

When you meet certain requirements in your outpost, like population or created wealth, some [[nobles]] will immigrate, like the [[Dungeon master]].

==Immigrant's equipment==
A migrant may not not always come with the necessary equipment to perform their jobs. For example, a [[Wood cutter]] may or may not come with a [[battle axe]]. [[Soldiers]] may appear with only the clothes on their back, or geared up in full steel armor and weapon. Rarely, a migrant may come with equipment they ''don't'' need to do their jobs - for example, a [[Carpenter]] may come with a [[battle axe]].

== What are the drawbacks to immigration? ==
Most of the time, immigration is a ''Good Thing,'' and the more, the merrier. More dwarves means more work gets done (especially hauling, since immigrants are basically peasants), more dwarves can be given "luxury" tasks like defending the fortress or making [[dye]]d [[cloth]], and some nobles require a certain number of dwarves before they arrive. However, more dwarves also means more CPU cycles eaten up, especially if your fortress is already taxing on your computer.

Of course, additional dwarves also require additional [[bedroom]]s, workshops, and [[alcohol|booze]] before they can be properly productive, and some players prefer to increase their population slowly to allow them to add the extra infrastructure at a more sedate pace.

== How can I curb immigration? ==
The easiest method to handle immigration is to alter the population cap in init.txt. You can first set it low and raise it as you see fit. Note that you may consider this to be cheating, and it also requires exiting the game each time you want more immigrants.

You can also make sure your fort does not produce or build much. Of course, this is not an especially interesting way to play the game. Since artifacts often account for most of your fortress' wealth, killing dwarves that enter [[strange mood]]s, or turning the moods off entirely in the init file, may be a better option. This can often be accomplished by making sure all your [[workshop]]s are in enclosed [[room]]s, then locking the [[door]] on them until they go [[insane]], then starve to death. This has a drawback in that dwarves that do manage to produce an artifact often gain a desirable [[legendary]] [[skill]]. Lock the door at your own discretion.

You can also kill the immigrants themselves, deliberately or otherwise. Large numbers of deaths will reduce immigration or prevent it entirely.

Several immigration messages are possible:

* ''Some migrants have arrived.''
: This is the normal message.
* ''Some migrants have arrived, despite the danger.''
: This occurs if there are many deaths but not enough to stop immigration.
* ''Some migrants have decided to brave this terrifying place, knowing it may be their tomb.''
: Appears to be caused by a lot of deaths (80+?) yet with a fortress wealthy enough (2.5 million?) to attract immigrants anyway.
* ''No one even considered making the journey to such a cursed death-trap this season.''
: Very large numbers of deaths at a fortress can cause all immigration (except nobles) to cease for a while: your fortress has gained a reputation as a deathtrap! Killing nobles seems to have a magnified effect here, and killing even a single noble can cause no immigrants to arrive in the next [[season]].

== Migrants in [[Adventure Mode]] ==
Roving bands of migrants may be found on the world map. These migrants can be linked to any of the major civilizations found on the world. This includes [[goblin]]s and [[kobold]]s. Such bands will consist of non-specialized adults and children.

== Migration Effects on the World ==
It is possible for migration to change the population levels of settlements on the map over time, and to cause factions of a civilization to merge. This can be discovered through talking to individuals in Adventurer mode, and will subsequently show up in [[Legends mode]].

[[Category:Dwarves]]
[[Category:World]]

{{Starting FAQ}}

40d Talk:Armor

2009-06-07T11:24:48Z

Wisq: /* Plate over chainmail changed? */

==Boots==
Corrected the matter with low and high boots. If you look at the raws you can see that the armor level of both boot types are the same and thus they can both be used as chain and plate armor. My games have proved this to me. Only real difference between the two boot types is that the high boot is heavier and protects more of the body than just the feet. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 05:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)

==clothes layers==
Does anyone know the rules of where you can wear each piece of armor? For example, can you wear a high boot and leggings? or only low boots with leggings? Do you need to make two boots? --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 20:30, 9 November 2007 (EST)

: You can wear high boots with leggings. Leggings and high boots have different layers. --[[User:JT|JT]] 17:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)

On a similar note, what's the difference between steel leggings and steel greaves? I would've thought leggings would cover below the knee as well. Do I need both to provide maximum Xtreme protection? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:17, 18 November 2007 (EST)

: As far as I can tell, greaves are the Plate class upgrade to leggings, which are Chain class lower body armor. Unlike upper body armor however, dwarves don't appear to be able to wear both leggings and greaves at once and will drop their leggings in favour of a set of greaves when set to Plate armor. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 14:03, 25 November 2007 (EST)

==Protection values==
I would like to know if it's possible to find out the various protection values of different types of armor. For example, we know the material and quality modifiers for armor, but not, say, how much better plate mail protects you than chain. Or whether greaves or high boots offer more coverage.
I ask because I'm wondering if, with high quality modifiers, [[adamantine]] ''clothing'' is viable protection for those who aren't wearing armor. Certainly, it'd make a good halfway measure for those who can't do magma smelting yet, but ''can'' get a Craftsdwarf's Workshop, Loom, and Clothesmaker's Workshop set up to extract the threads, weave them, and make clothes. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:48, 13 December 2007 (EST)

==Soldier==

I think some of this article, specifically that stuff in the Using armor section, should be moved over to an article more dedicated to soldier preferences. As it is, it's describing everything about arming civilians with weapons instead of simply talking about armoring civilians; that content seems more appropriate for an article about soldiers or the hunting article. --[[User:JT|JT]] 17:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)

==Verified==

I can verify that whan setting dwarves to chain, they wear gauntlets --[[User:Nog|Nog]] 16:21, 12 November 2007 (EST)

== Table ==

I added a Materials Needed section to the table. Is this OK? --[[User:Nanor|Nanor]] 19 December 2007

:Excellent idea. It looked a little odd in the table, so I moved it to the text instead. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 16:47, 19 December 2007 (EST)

:: Much better! Thanks! --[[User:Nanor|Nanor]] 17:50, 19 December 2007 (EST)

== 23.130.23a ==

We had much more info on armor in the [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Armor old wiki]. Could someone with an account there bring the relevant bits over? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)

:Edit: Ported over most information; change anything that isn't correct.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 13:06, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Leather Armor re: Caps and Helms ==

A soldier set to leather armor can wear leather helms, not just caps, and they'll wear a cap at the same time underneath (at least, if it's silk. I haven't confirmed yet if a soldier will wear a leather cap + a leather helm; doesn't really matter). This is a good thing because helms (according to the old wiki) have higher Block. They're heavier too but this shouldn't be a problem. --[[User:Stromko|Stromko]] 19:57:15 (PST), January 06 2007

:In the old versions, the materials of the armor pieces were irrelevant, regardless of the fact that the lowest armor level is called "leather". Leather and chain wearers would wear any kind of legging or boot, and a plate wearer would wear even a pig tail helm, if they happened to come across one, showing no preference for better material types or quality. Has this changed, or does the table in this article contain some wrong assumptions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:42, 7 January 2008 (EST)

::I seem to recall that 'light' materials like cloth, shell, and bone effectively 'downgraded' armor by one level, weighed half as much, and were 50% of the maximum effectiveness per their type. However! I can see right now in my current fortress a steel cap is 78 pounds and a cave spider silk cap is 13 pounds. This shows not all old information is correct.

Furthermore, bone and shell doesn't become a 'lighter' class. Shell Gauntlets require Chain or above to be assigned, and Turtle Bone Greaves go un-used until a dwarf is set to Plate.

However, I /can/ confirm from this very fortress I'm looking at right now, that dwarves assigned to leather went to pick up and wear Leather Helms. Unless, that is, they already have metal Caps. I'm looking at a marksdwarf right now assigned to wear Leather who has a Steel Cap, a pig tail hood (they all have hoods), and no helm. Everybody else has a leather helm.

I should note my fortress has no metal helms lying around, nor does it have spare metal caps, so I'm unable to verify that dwarves set to Leather wouldn't wear metal Helms or preferentially choose caps (they'd probably choose /either/ Metal Caps or Leather Helms if given a choice). However, I'm pretty sure they would not. Therefore, it is my understanding that they make a distinction between different material types. --[[User:Stromko|Stromko]] 03:22 (PST), January 07 2007

== Shields and Bucklers ==

Hmm it states here that dwarves can wear BOTH shields and bucklers, however in soldiering screen you can select EITHER shield OR buckler, but NOT both. Does this part of article apply to Adv. mode only? Could someone verify, please? --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 18:21, 24 February 2008 (EST)

I would guess the trick is to tell them to use bucklers first, waiting til they pick one up, then telling them to use shields, at which point they'll pick up a shield without dropping the buckler first. Like how you can get dwarves to wear a leather armour, chain mail, and plate on top all at the same time if you set them to leather, then chain, then plate. [[User:Furiousfish|Furiousfish]] 20:54, 6 March 2008 (EST)

== Natural Selection ==

Being a bit of a nooblet, and not having much war in any of my fortresses, I'm confused as to how armor selection works.

Would I be correct if I said "Setting a dwarf to wear Plate armor will cause him to grab plate whenever and wherever possible, but substitute leather, chain, or bone wherever no plate is available. So, for example, if my metalsmiths never make helms, but my leatherworker has caps and helms galore, they'll wear plate armor and a leather helm. Right? If so, this should probably be mentioned. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 19:24, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:I've found that a dwarf set to wear plate will grab the best available armor. More puzzling is that they will sometimes stack armor; IE dwarves wearing plate mail and chain mail at the same time. However, I never keep a stock of leather armor, so I wouldn't know if it can be used in conjunction with metal armor.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 22:29 21 April 2008 (EDT)
::The dwarves seem to be notorious for pulling on a full suit of armour ie chain-then-plate, there's a reason a fort I made (whose metal industry relies on eg [[coal]] and [[lignite]]) is making all chain-mail, crossbows and shields to defend against gobbo raids ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 09:13, 3 June 2008 (EDT)
Just wanted to point out that leather armor and plate can't be put on together.

== Gloves ==
My military is set to wear Leather armor, but they don't take leather gloves. High boots, leggings, armor and helmets are used OK. Is the article data incorrect?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:51, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

Some equipment is unavaliable for dwarf use because it is the incorrect size. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:40, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

My guess is that your dwarves are already wearing cloth gloves. This is considered clothing level armor, the same level as leather gloves. They see no reason to switch armor when the leather gloves provide the same "level of protection." I think your best bet would be to dump their cloth gloves, if you're that worried about them. You can always reclaim them later. --[[User:PrettyGrizzly|PrettyGrizzly]] 11:00, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

== Artifacts ==

This has an excellent table defining the bonuses for quality/materials, but completely excludes artifact modifiers. I would assume that these would always be the best, regardless, of material, but I just found myself with a rhesus macaque leather shield and don't know if I should use it in place of, oh, I don't know, a more ''steel'' one.
:Currently, the exact modifier for artifact quality seems to be unknown. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 18:27, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

==Fort-mode equipment quirks==

The edit I just made was prompted by seeing a dwarf wearing ''twelve'' cloaks, and remembering the "cannot wear cloaks" phrase mentioned in the pre-edit version of the bit below the giant table. I tried to reconcile the two statements that were already there, particularly in light of said cloak-happy dwarf. However, there's also one thing I'm wondering about: is the number of equipped items partially determined by what order they're put on in fortress mode? I ''think'' it is, but am not sure, so I decided not to include that. If it's the case, however, I think it'd be worth mentioning along with the cloaks part (even in the old version of the page, should somebody decide to revert my edit or something). --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 20:23, 6 July 2008 (EDT)
:Dungeon masters wear nothing but 12 colors of cloaks and mittens. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 13:07, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Over Under Armor Cover ==

Besides sounding like a Daft Punk chorus, these are four LAYER values. I know what Over and Under do with respect to each other: You can't wear Under on top of Over. Do the others follow the same pattern, are they all ordered? Is there some more mysterious effect for "Cover" and "Armor"? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 01:04, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Decorating Armor ==
Wasn't sure whether to ask this here or under gem setter - is it not possible to get a gem setter to decorate armor? I know leather armor can receive images and bone/shell decorations (and presumably the bone/shell applies to metal as well), I can't fathom why you can't put gems on suits of armor given that.... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:44, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:AFAIK no, it isn't possible to decorate armor or weapons. That's one of the more frequently requested additions on the forums.[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:33, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::It is, however, possible to acquire armor already decorated with gems via trade with a caravan. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:09, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:::Said armor would unlikely to be masterwork, nor with masterwork decorations. Nor would it be made of adamantine. I'm afraid its no real supplement. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:35, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::::Oh, sure, if you want to, like, *survive*. Instead of look pretty. Where are your priorities? :) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:50, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:::::I want to survive *and* look pretty. When faced with a choice of two appealing options, the correct choice is obviously 'yes'. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:01, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::::::I suppose you have a point. Oh, well, back to [[Decoration|Stud with platinum]]. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 19:25, 5 December 2008 (EST)

== Markdwarves only work with bucklers?!?! ==

I guess that makes sense since historically, bucklers were made to strap to the forearm and allow archers to use their bows...

Anyway, it seems my markdwarves don't like it when I make them use a shield. They stop carrying ammunition and won't practice shooting when off duty.

Is this the reason or is something else going on? Anyway, if it is indeed the case that markdwarves don't work with shields, it deserves mention, right?
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 13:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
:It's unclear, for this reason: ThreeToe has stated, point blank, that '''"The two handed code is broken right now... the crossbow is always two handed."''' So it's unclear if a marksdwarf ever actually uses a shield or buckler if they're holding a crossbow - they might be using it 2 handed in melee as well (and I more than suspect they are).

:The way you suspect it to work is, I'd guess, the way it's ''supposed'' to work... whether that has anything to do with the way it ''does'' work is another guess.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 14:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:I've found that the best way is not to assign a buckler/shield at all. They then will use the free hand to carry practice bolts while off duty, while keeping metal bolts in the quiver for use at a moments notice. I suppose if the dwarf was done training, then you could assign a buckler.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 19:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== ARMOR ARTICLE SPLIT/COMBINING?==

[[Leather Armor]], should have it's own page. It is an item, like platemail.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:22, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

:I've been thinking about the "armour" category in general - every different item does not need its very own page. What is there to say about "leather armour" (the item, not the suit)? Look at [[low boot]], or [[leggings]] vs. [[greaves]] - waste of time to have to go to a diff page for each, and it currently takes ''how many'' to get a full picture of "armour"? Isn't this the type of thing that can be all combined into one more useful page?
::*Armor - general
::*Suits of Armor - the 5 basic parts
:::*of leather
:::*of chain
:::*of plate
:*layering
:*known quirks and bugs
:Maybe one page with all pieces, and then another (this) with all the misc information.[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

::I'm thinking of something more along the lines of a page for the different sets, combining the different separate pages for each item of armor.

:::There is a discussion about this page on a user talk page. ''Please discuss the Armor page here.'' And please state any problems or conflicts with the Armor page, so they can be evaluated and discussed.
:::Personally, I have few problems with the page. But then I pretty much know everything the page states, and while I like the comprehensive, factual style of the page it may not be the best style for educating new players. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 14:12, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

(DELETED COMMENTS ON OVER-ENTHUSIASM. Non-relevant now. We move forward.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

===Improving presentation of "Armor" ===

I think the larger point (echoed from posts above) is that, as is, the article makes sense to those who understand it - but isn't optimized for those who don't. There are 3 general problems that I perceive with the articles (plural) as they stand, and those same 3 areas I'd like to see addressed:
:* Scattered information - too many stub articles about individual armour pieces or one tiny facet of "armour".
:* No clean, unified "This all you need (to know) for leather armor", "This what you need (to know) for chain armor" (sub)articles.
:* This article is already borderline too long. Info is getting lost, readers are getting boggled - need a concept split between basic vs. advanced (or something sim). There are 11 sections, w/ some hefty sub-sections - that's too many by half.

(And I think we have to concede that answering the rather arcane question of ''"How does it work, EXACTLY?"'' will be an ongoing process, I'm afraid.)

Spotting problems is easy and cheap - solving them is the tough part. A user wants "all" relevant information in front of them, and not much more - and that'll be diff for each user. But I think we can take a stab at a generally applicable organization. I'd suggest this (as a starting point for this process, ~if~ it's agreed it needs to be addressed) -

2 articles; #1 deals w/ armor at face value for those not interested in the details (what each piece is, how they fit together into suits, how a dwarf puts them on, what craft/shop builds what), and #2 deals with the numbers for the number crunchers and optimizers (repetition of quality/material tables, damblock numbers, and all that issue.) For those Players who are comfortable in the simple (and correct) assumption that chain armour is "better" than leather, the first page gives them all they need to know (perhaps w/ hints & links beyond). For those who need more (a little or a lot), they go to the second page, where they'll find the Protection and Weight tables, and all the details that are teased slowly from the tags and RAW's.

Off the top of my head, I'd call the first page "Armor Guide" (fitting into Category: Guide) - all current "armor" articles would redirect to that one, at least. The second (advanced) article might be titled something like "Armor details" or "Armor values" or "Armor explained", and have all the stuff that boggles the unprepared. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
::I think the creation of armor belongs somewhere else in the wiki. The types of armor should be defined first, with all the exceptions and rules explained in a single article. Another article on the way the pieces layer on top of each other, and a final section of the second article for the defense bonuses of each item and the coverage, and all the other good and juicy technical things. The current layout is two biased towards traditional thinking, and is like trying to push the triangle block into the circle hole in those toys for tykes. It just doesn't fit the technicality that is dwarf fortress.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:53, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I agree re "making armor" - under "Armorsmith" seems reasonable. "Layering" is part of wearing, if an advanced part and one that is often overlooked ''(possibly because that article is lost among so much other bandwidth.)'' I think (depending on final size of the article, and number of sub-sections), that could be put at the bottom of the same page as definitions/how to use, so it's not separate from "suits", but works hand in hand with that info. That would give us a format that looks ''something'' like...
:*Article #1: Armor Guide:
::*Individual Pieces - (copied & improved from the various stub articles, which all then become redirects)
::**the 3 (4?) Levels (lthr, chain, plate - and clothing)
::*Using Armor - basic "how to" (not "advice" or strategies, unless universal warnings)
:::*Layering
::*Shields & Bucklers
::*"Misc" ("oddities") - sizes, wrestling, etc.
:::(deleted/redirected: "Making Armor" & "requirements" -> Armorsmith; possibly dump value table & quality table - redundant)

:*Article #2: "Armor Analysis" - number cruncher's bible ''(needs a better name)''
::*damblock/protection values
::*Chart showing Analysis of diff types/combo's
::*weight explanation
::*size/permit explanation

:::That puts everything the new/intermediate player needs to know about armour on 1 page, and all the "behind the scenes data" on another. Easy conceptual split.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

== Plate over chainmail changed? ==

I cannot get my dwarves to wear plate over chainmail. If I order them to wear chainmail, they wear it, including both a cap and a helm. If I order them to wear plate, they do indeed take off the chainmail first. I think this has been fixed, so I'm putting the appropriate 'verify' tags on the article. I also wonder if the helm-over-cap was always intended, rather than a glitch caused by stepping through armour levels. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 06:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:This has always been treated as a feature, not a bug, but whatever. It is called "layering armor". Dwarfs are also able to wear chain over leather, but not a "lighter" armor over a heavier one. I just tried it, and it works fine - chain over leather, plate over chain, no problem. (Oddly, they won't wear plate mail over leather armor, but such a step-up will cause the cap/helm layering.) vanilla 40d.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

::It's a little more complicated. The '''size and permit''' section of the article explains armor layering. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:22, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Well, that's very strange, then. I've got steel chainmail and steel plate mail, and per above, if I go nothing → chain → plate (giving them time to put everything on at each step), they put almost everything on at the "chain" stage (including both a steel cap and steel helm), and then promptly ditch their chainmail in favour of plate at the "plate" stage. Am I misunderstanding this? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 17:36, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
::::"Chain" and "Plate" level armours (the full suits) both include boots, gauntlets, helmet and possibly a steel cap underneath. Chain leggings would get ditched in favour of greaves, but the torso piece, the "chain armour", should still be seen in inventory along with "plate armour".--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 20:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::Unless of course, we are totally wrong. Which is entirely possible.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 00:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

:Okay, so I'm still trying this, and while I've gotten two dwarves to wear both cap + helm and chainmail + platemail, I can't seem to get a third one to do it. I can get the cap + helm by forbidding leather helms and going leather, so he wears a steel cap. Then, I go chain, so he wears a steel helm and a steel chainmail. Then I go plate, and he runs to put the plate on, but drops the chainmail on the spot (in the stockpile) when he puts on the plate. Am I doing something wrong here? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 11:24, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

== Example/consider shell..? ==
So if i read this right a masterful shell item gives the same protection as a no quality iron item? Thus i might consider using it in early game or in a tough game with no iron/steel..not even copper - or if my armorsmith is not yet able to produce higher qualities, but my carver is?

how to factor in weight? -is encumbrance only making dwarves slower or also fight worse?
:Not sure about %'s, but over-encumbrance will make a dwarf move slower, so less actions/second, so less combat - in theory. (See [[Speed]] and subsection on [[Encumbrance]].) But at 50% for material x 2.0 for quality for masterful shell, vs 100% for material x 1.0 for quality for iron - yes, identical in protection. If you gained a Legendary bone carver, have no skilled armorsmith, and/or a lot more bone and shell than iron, that's a valid option until you can solve that lack.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:41, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Stockpile

2009-06-05T05:55:44Z

Wisq: /* Trampling of food? */

=== Stockpile categories ===
'''[[Ore]]''' 
Ore will be brought here. This is one of the simpler stockpiles.
: Is it just me, or is this incorrect? I don't see an option in the new version for ore piles. I'm at work and so cannot double-check at this time, but I'll check when I get home and if I confirm it then, I'll remove Ore from the Stockpile categories.

You're correct. Ore is now included in the stone stockpile and there is no mining stockpile. I've made the change. -Valdemar

Should this page be retitled "Stockpile" to keep in line with the title style rules? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 17:44, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
:Done. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 18:15, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

==Custom Catastrophe==

According to the forums, and my own experiences, the "Custom" category doesn't actually work. Removing the unused stockpile and replacing it with one of the standard type, then editing it to your specifications will work. Also types can be safely changed after they're assigned. (I turned a wood stockpile to a bed stockpile with successful stocking).
I came across this after a great deal of kitchen rebuilding because my cook wouldn't fill the stockpiles. If someone more familiar with the wiki, and the game, could confirm this and edit the page it would be appreciated, it's something that should be out there. [[User:Scribbler|Scribbler]] 14:24, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

: I have not had this problem, although I do need to be careful making sure that I actually adjust the cus{{k|t}}om stockpile settings before placing the stockpile, and then being sure that I'm still placing a custom stockpile. This menu is one of the least-intuitive to my mind, but the settings work, AFAIK. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:48, 4 November 2008 (EST)

:Custom stockpiles work perfectly for me, and have for a logn time. Maybe the original poster overlooked the "prepared food" option under the food submenu?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:53, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:::probably as simple as not allowing the 'material'/'core quality'/'total quality' options to be on. maybe even the 'metals' one if you want a metal-stuff stockpile. i've had lots of trouble with it, too x] usually done by {{k|b}}locking all, and just selecting the item on it's own. everything has to be made out of something! --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 13:01, 7 March 2009 (EST)

::::For me, dwarves ignore custom stockpiles as long as there is an unfilled existing stockpile that accepts whatever the custom stockpile accepts. Once that stockpile fills (and the dwarves are forced to begin using the custom pile) the custom stockpile is used normally--even if the other stockpile empties.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 21:26, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

== Bins ==

how do I make my bins get to the "right" stockpiles (ie i want to put stone in bins to compact it but so far my bin is sitting in a "finished goods" stockpile)[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:40, 4 January 2008 (EST)

:Raw objects generally can't be put in bins, only "processed" goods. For instance, [[block]]s can be put in bins, but not raw stone. The best way to get a compact stone store is to create a dump, though I haven't fiddled with that technique yet.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:51, 4 January 2008 (EST)
::Stone designated for dumping (individually which is a pain no matter how you do it) can all end up on a single dump activity zone and then reclaimed, this is much more space-efficient than stone stockpiles.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:42, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
:::You can now mass designate items for dumping by selecting large amounts of stone, or any other object, really. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 15:46, 3 January 2009 (EST)
:Is my problem similar to what you mean, GarrieIrons? I have a clothing/leather stockpile that is filled to the brink with individual items. I want to put them in bins so that I can have more room (as there are more items to be stored) but whenever I find a way to make room in the stockpile, more non-bin items are added until it is full again. On top of that, there is already one bin on the stockpile and no one will store anything in it. [[User:FJH|FJH]] 21:30, 17 February 2009 (EST)
::i had the same problem, and was just about to post it, then found an answer! :D set your stockpile to accept bins/barrels/whatever (mine's a stone block stockpile way outside of my fort, from which the peasants were carting one block at a time into a free bin. now it's a bin and block stockpile (Note: DO NOT TURN OFF 'core quality', 'total quality' etc. if you do, NO bins/barrels will be accepted)), press {{k|q}}uery(?) over the stockpile, then press {{k|t}}ake from a pile. go to your finished goods stockpile (the one containing the bins/barrels), and hit {{k|Enter}}. your peasants will immediately start running over to it with bins/barrels. sorted :D note: they'll take all your bins over! remember to {{k|q}} over your new stockpile, and set the maximum amount of bins/barrels with {{k|c}} (more) and {{k|v}} (fewer). mine's set to 10. thinking about it... you may just be able to set your finished goods stockpile max to 10 bins/barrels, and any others will be taken somewhere else (probably not a good thing; they may get left clogging up your workspace) --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 12:45, 7 March 2009 (EST)

== Usable/Unusable Weapons/Armour? ==

Anyone knows exactly what this does? It seems that stockpiles set to "unusable" will only collect things that dwarfs can't possibly ever use, not even in Adventure mode (ex: big human two-handed weapons such as a halberd), but while technically things like whips and scimitars aren't unusable, dwarfs in Fortress mode will never equip them - no such option in the Military screen. Or will they use, for example, a scimitar if set to use swords? Will that use the Swordsdwarf skill? IMO it would be more useful if it included any weapon not in the Military screen. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 12:44, 12 January 2008 (EST)
:I use this when I kill kobolds etc - all the weapons my dwarf collect of '''hostile''' creatures then go into the same bin. I can't use them, but I ''can'' drag one bin all at once to the visiting [[trading|merchant]] - ker-ching! They sell pretty well.
:But I agree, it should be that any weapon dwarves cannot use should end up there.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:53, 14 February 2008 (EST)

== my dear cook ==

preparing food stacks larger than *ten* - on what depends the number? my cook sometimes does it, sometimes not, both with lavish and simple meals. Is it from the stack size? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 02:36, 14 February 2008 (EST)

:The biggest question here though is - what is the appropriate setting for a stockpile for cooked food?
:It seems to be, "forbid" everything but make sure "Prepared food" is turned on. But "prepared food" seems to be turned on as the default, and it allows even unprocessed fish etc to be placed in the stockpile. So this doesn't make much sense to me.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:40, 27 February 2008 (EST)
: well, you could use a refuse pile with only prepared meals enabled...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:39, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:: to be more precise, a custom stockpile (t) with only prepared meals enabled under 'Refuse' - works and is not even called a refuse pile. Havent seen someone eat from it yet though.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:03, 3 March 2008 (EST)
:I think in general, the number of prepared meals in the stack is based on the number of ingredients used. The biggest stacks of ingredients are generally quarry bush leaves, but depending on the animal, stacks of tallow can equal or exceed them. I have mini-stockpiles for quarry bush leaves and tallow adjacent to my kitchen, and if a stack smaller than 20 gets made, it generally means those mini-stockpiles are out. [[User:Darekun|Darekun]] 22:03, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

== Stone Stockpiles ==

Currently my dwarves are not hauling ores of iron, zinc and lignite which I have disabled for my other stone stockpiles. I have over 8000 stone in somewhat organized stockpiles since I thought my wealth would generate more slowly with everyone hauling them all around the map with the more common stones, siltstone and phyllite, creating common crafts, statues, hatch covers, flood gates, mechanisms and use in stone fall traps. I now have over 333 stockpiles. I went and mined all ores used in creating fuels and metals and it seems that the storage space I've made might not be that big enough. What's the problem?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 21:35, 9 July 2008 (EDT)
:Just got it, I had ignore minerals. Sorry.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 21:35, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

== Take From Stockpile ==

While we're adding information to this section, Can someone who has used this successfully give a more concrete example? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:22, 6 November 2008 (EST)

:Well, I gave it a shot --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:27, 7 March 2009 (EST)

== Clear stone to replace with stockpile? ==

Is there any way to clear the stone out of the way so I can build a stock pile for something that ISN'T stone? Got a nice big room full of workshops and nowhere to put anything because 90% of the spots are filled with stones.

(Is it just me, or do the dwarves sometimes seem ''really'' dumb? I set up a paved road of about 10 sections from the top exit of the fortress to the edge of the map for caravans. I set up stone stockpiles next to every other segment of the road both so they didn't have to walk so far to do it and to clear some of the stone out... They started at the farthest away road segment, and will go all the way to the other end of the road, down three flights of stairs, all the way to an otherwise empty room to pick up a piece of stone to go all the way back to use it on the road, rather than use the nearby and completely full stockpiles. ) --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 05:24, 27 November 2008 (EST)

:[[Stone management]]. As for the road, when constructing a building, it shows you how distant the materials are, but only "as the crow flies". If the nearest stone is one z-level away and you unwittingly select it, they'll walk however long a path they have to actually fetch it. Same thing for workshops -- they'll go huge distances to get the item that's just above their heads.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:01, 27 November 2008 (EST)

::That may explain it... I set up the stockpiles after designating the road, so (after everyone dropped everything to fill the stockpiles), they went to the stone that I apparently designated when I set up the road. Would be nice if you could just tell them 'take THIS item and put it THERE'... --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 21:16, 28 November 2008 (EST)

:::[[Dump]]ing more or less allows you to do that.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:59, 28 November 2008 (EST)

::::Seems less than more. :-p I've got a leftover iron knife sitting on the remains of a two dimensional goblin in a stonefall trap... I set everything to dump, and they took everything but his body and his knife. (I sold all his crap to the elves that showed up shortly thereafter). I ended up going with the catapult version...had a peasant build three catapult parts then set it up and toss rocks across the room into a channel... he's now a siege engineer. So I had him build another and started another peasant on it, and they're happily banging away at the wall... --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 23:01, 29 November 2008 (EST)

==Armor bin capacity==

I have a bin in my armor stockpile that has 17 items in it, so unless something really weird is going on the statement in the article that bins in armor stockpiles can consolidate up to 10 items is probably false. Anyone know what the truth is? [[User:MJSS|MJSS]] 20:51, 16 December 2008 (EST)

:It depends on the size of the items. An armor bin can hold a lot more boots and gauntlets than it can suits of platemail. It was speculated that 10 is the minimum number of goods a bin can hold, although I think platemail bins don't even hold that many. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 21:02, 16 December 2008 (EST)

::I've long been curious about what the formula is for bin capacity. A question for the future, I guess.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 15:29, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:Crafts fit in bins in especially large numbers; perhaps based on the "material size" of the item, with some default applying to things with no explicit material size? There's also the matter of bags of seeds. [[User:Darekun|Darekun]] 23:52, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

== Core Quality vs Total Quality ==

What's the difference? Does core quality refer to the quality of the item while total quality somehow takes into account its decorations? If I have a standard quality sword menacing with masterwork spikes of bone, what total quality is that? [[User:Schwern|Schwern]] 17:49, 31 December 2008 (EST)

:Yes, and I have no idea. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:04, 31 December 2008 (EST)
:The formula is unknown. We wish we knew.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:07, 7 March 2009 (EST)

== Putting things in bins higher priority than Take From Stockpile? ==

In most cases, ''Take From Stockpile'' works fine; however, I seem to have a situation where it does not. Stockpile A is set to accept only skull totems, zero bin maximum, and take from Stockpile B which is set to accept finished goods (incl. skull totems) and has a non-zero bin maximum. However, I find my dwarfs are moving items from A to B, when they should be moving totems from B to A.

I've only had this problem with skull totems, but I don't think it has to do with the totems themselves, but rather because this is the only time I've been attempting to move items from a stockpile that uses bins to one that does not. Has anyone else seen this? I need to do some testing, but I think the desire to put things in bins on stockpiles overrides the desire to take things from one stockpile to another. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 18:02, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:You could edit the priority of putting items in a bin, over just sitting on the ground. I think default is like 120 or something.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:24, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:P.S. It's in the init.

:Might I ask why you're allowing totems in Stockpile B at all? Seems like an easy way to do it would be to simply have the totems only end up in Pile A. I usually only use "Take from" when preparing to relocate my primary stockpile for an item elsewhere. -[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:17, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== Trampling of food? ==

Is it just my imagination, or was there once an issue (feature) whereby unbarrelled food, particularly prepared meals, would degrade over time due to trampling by dwarves going to get food? I can't find mention of it anywhere, but I've been designing trample-proof piles with diagonal "checkerboard" access for a long time now, and I'm wondering if it's still (or was ever) necessary. Maybe someone confused the vermin issue with trampling? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 01:44, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

:I think I've found a reference to it, in the [[Wear]] article. "Wear can be caused by heavy traffic over the location an item is stored." But my questions still stand re: whether this still/ever applied to food, whether barrels make them immune or just help, etc. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 23:23, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
::I don't believe it matters. If you read that article, you know that [[wear]] is a sort of lowering of quality. And you ''should'' know that raw foodstuffs have no quality - if you don't, they don't. (And that article specifically states that [[Kitchen#Prepared meals|prepared food]]s are not subject to wear.) Putting these together, we get - it doesn't matter. I don't believe they do, but ~if~ the plump helmets or jaguar meat were to get worn out - they're still plump helmets or meat, and still just as edible and quality-less as before. (As to the question of where you might have gotten this idea, I got nuthin'.) I think the important phrase is ''"I can't find mention of it anywhere"''. If wear effects food, I have seen no report of it either, anywhere.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:38, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Yeah, I suspect it was a rumour someone started a while back as an explanation for why their food was getting damaged, when in fact it was vermin doing it. At least now I can stop making wacky stockpiles for unbarrelled food. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 05:55, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== Moving only items that are in a bin ==

This is mainly aimed at efficiently moving items to be near the Trade Depot.

What I want to do is designate a mixed stockpile but then say "only bring full bins to this stockpile".

Then I can have stockpiles near each workshop, when a bin is full a hauler comes and does the right thing for me.

It all sounds so easy and logical! Now, is there an easy way to do it? What I am noticing is, if I have

workshop -> stockpile A -> stockpile B -> trade depot

when I put "stockpile B" on "max bins: all squares", then my haulers never bother stopping at Stockpile A with inidividual items they just go

workshop -> haul item -> stockpile B.

[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 08:31, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Suicide booth

2009-06-01T17:58:20Z

Wisq:

== Not working? ==
I doubt this is working, since dwarves stand on levers when they pull them. I tried it and found that the Hammerer 'used' for this test never moved from the lever. I locked the door and starved him to death instead. :) --[[User:Caiburn|Caiburn]]

* Yeah, I had a similar issue when I had the brilliant notion to do something like this only with a tower and a floor hatch. Very disappointed when that fell through. Or didn't, as the case may be. Oh well. Still have a cool tower to lock my hammerer in, too. [[User:Neongrey|Neongrey]] 14:45, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

:: You can probably still manage something approximating a stone-fall trap -- take a hatch, a lever, two levels, and stack stone on top of the hatch. It might not kill them unless you use a few more levels, though... --[[User:Heron|Heron]] 21:22, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

::: A thirteen z-level few more levels, maybe? hmmmmmm. [[User:Neongrey|Neongrey]] 22:58, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
:::: Note to self, link the hatch before you start dumping stone on top of the hatch... [[User:Neongrey|Neongrey]] 13:50, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

: This is what I get for posting without testing. Bad editor, no biscuit. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 14:26, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

== A new barrier for the noble variant ==

From the changes text file for the current version:
-stopped dwarves from choosing to sleep on top of traps

This might mean that the noble will sleep on the lever %100 of the time.
[[User:Qwertyuiopas|Qwertyuiopas]] 03:06, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

:Ah, this confirms what I was seeing in [[Talk:Captured creatures#Capturing friends]]. And I think the actual effect is much worse. My dwarves refused to sleep on the trap under any circumstances, even when it was the only option, to the point that they went insane if supplied with food and drink for long enough. I've updated the article. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 06:54, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

== Premise broken ==

Eventually he'll fall asleep, and the trap springs.
In ver 40d, this no longer happens. Dwarfs will go insane before falling asleep on a trap. (Tested). Editing to reflect this, and credit to [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] for pointing it out.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 09:32, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:It might still be possible to actually build a trap under a dwarf while they're sleeping, but it'd have to be a pretty well-timed affair.

:For the nonlethal version (cage traps), it might also be a temporary one — I've also heard tales of dwarves helping your dwarves out of cages, but that was from someone who was experimenting with an alternate means of unconsciousness, via dropping dwarves down a shaft. It's possible that was a special case of dwarves helping a '''wounded''' dwarf out so he could go to bed.

:For lethal versions, depending on how fast they trigger, upright spike traps might work as an alternative. If they're instantaneous, then no, but if they wait a tick or two, the dwarf might start to leave the room, then get impaled on the spikes they just triggered. A similar approach could probably be done using retracting bridges and a spike pit underneath, with the benefit that the bridge can be arbitrarily large to deal with the lag time between lever pull and actual retraction. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 17:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Wisq

2009-06-01T17:46:52Z

Wisq:

== Layering armor ==

I cannot get my dwarves to wear plate over chainmail...
...so I'm putting the appropriate 'verify' tags on the article...

Hey. It works fine for me (see [[Talk:Armor]]). If you're going to make a serious change re what an article states as "truth", it's always a good idea to start a discussion page first, to see if your observations are duplicated/confirmed by others. A few (more) days of the wrong/outdated info won't hurt, and undo-ing multiple edits is a hassle for everyone concerned. No biggie, I've certainly been guilty of well-meaning over-enthusiasm as well. Your other recent edits have added insightful details - keep up the good work.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:52, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Armor

2009-06-01T17:46:03Z

Wisq: /* Plate over chainmail changed? */

40d Talk:Armor

2009-06-01T17:39:39Z

Wisq: /* Plate over chainmail changed? */

==Boots==
Corrected the matter with low and high boots. If you look at the raws you can see that the armor level of both boot types are the same and thus they can both be used as chain and plate armor. My games have proved this to me. Only real difference between the two boot types is that the high boot is heavier and protects more of the body than just the feet. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 05:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)

==clothes layers==
Does anyone know the rules of where you can wear each piece of armor? For example, can you wear a high boot and leggings? or only low boots with leggings? Do you need to make two boots? --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 20:30, 9 November 2007 (EST)

: You can wear high boots with leggings. Leggings and high boots have different layers. --[[User:JT|JT]] 17:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)

On a similar note, what's the difference between steel leggings and steel greaves? I would've thought leggings would cover below the knee as well. Do I need both to provide maximum Xtreme protection? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:17, 18 November 2007 (EST)

: As far as I can tell, greaves are the Plate class upgrade to leggings, which are Chain class lower body armor. Unlike upper body armor however, dwarves don't appear to be able to wear both leggings and greaves at once and will drop their leggings in favour of a set of greaves when set to Plate armor. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 14:03, 25 November 2007 (EST)

==Protection values==
I would like to know if it's possible to find out the various protection values of different types of armor. For example, we know the material and quality modifiers for armor, but not, say, how much better plate mail protects you than chain. Or whether greaves or high boots offer more coverage.
I ask because I'm wondering if, with high quality modifiers, [[adamantine]] ''clothing'' is viable protection for those who aren't wearing armor. Certainly, it'd make a good halfway measure for those who can't do magma smelting yet, but ''can'' get a Craftsdwarf's Workshop, Loom, and Clothesmaker's Workshop set up to extract the threads, weave them, and make clothes. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:48, 13 December 2007 (EST)

==Soldier==

I think some of this article, specifically that stuff in the Using armor section, should be moved over to an article more dedicated to soldier preferences. As it is, it's describing everything about arming civilians with weapons instead of simply talking about armoring civilians; that content seems more appropriate for an article about soldiers or the hunting article. --[[User:JT|JT]] 17:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)

==Verified==

I can verify that whan setting dwarves to chain, they wear gauntlets --[[User:Nog|Nog]] 16:21, 12 November 2007 (EST)

== Table ==

I added a Materials Needed section to the table. Is this OK? --[[User:Nanor|Nanor]] 19 December 2007

:Excellent idea. It looked a little odd in the table, so I moved it to the text instead. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 16:47, 19 December 2007 (EST)

:: Much better! Thanks! --[[User:Nanor|Nanor]] 17:50, 19 December 2007 (EST)

== 23.130.23a ==

We had much more info on armor in the [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Armor old wiki]. Could someone with an account there bring the relevant bits over? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)

:Edit: Ported over most information; change anything that isn't correct.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 13:06, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Leather Armor re: Caps and Helms ==

A soldier set to leather armor can wear leather helms, not just caps, and they'll wear a cap at the same time underneath (at least, if it's silk. I haven't confirmed yet if a soldier will wear a leather cap + a leather helm; doesn't really matter). This is a good thing because helms (according to the old wiki) have higher Block. They're heavier too but this shouldn't be a problem. --[[User:Stromko|Stromko]] 19:57:15 (PST), January 06 2007

:In the old versions, the materials of the armor pieces were irrelevant, regardless of the fact that the lowest armor level is called "leather". Leather and chain wearers would wear any kind of legging or boot, and a plate wearer would wear even a pig tail helm, if they happened to come across one, showing no preference for better material types or quality. Has this changed, or does the table in this article contain some wrong assumptions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:42, 7 January 2008 (EST)

::I seem to recall that 'light' materials like cloth, shell, and bone effectively 'downgraded' armor by one level, weighed half as much, and were 50% of the maximum effectiveness per their type. However! I can see right now in my current fortress a steel cap is 78 pounds and a cave spider silk cap is 13 pounds. This shows not all old information is correct.

Furthermore, bone and shell doesn't become a 'lighter' class. Shell Gauntlets require Chain or above to be assigned, and Turtle Bone Greaves go un-used until a dwarf is set to Plate.

However, I /can/ confirm from this very fortress I'm looking at right now, that dwarves assigned to leather went to pick up and wear Leather Helms. Unless, that is, they already have metal Caps. I'm looking at a marksdwarf right now assigned to wear Leather who has a Steel Cap, a pig tail hood (they all have hoods), and no helm. Everybody else has a leather helm.

I should note my fortress has no metal helms lying around, nor does it have spare metal caps, so I'm unable to verify that dwarves set to Leather wouldn't wear metal Helms or preferentially choose caps (they'd probably choose /either/ Metal Caps or Leather Helms if given a choice). However, I'm pretty sure they would not. Therefore, it is my understanding that they make a distinction between different material types. --[[User:Stromko|Stromko]] 03:22 (PST), January 07 2007

== Shields and Bucklers ==

Hmm it states here that dwarves can wear BOTH shields and bucklers, however in soldiering screen you can select EITHER shield OR buckler, but NOT both. Does this part of article apply to Adv. mode only? Could someone verify, please? --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 18:21, 24 February 2008 (EST)

I would guess the trick is to tell them to use bucklers first, waiting til they pick one up, then telling them to use shields, at which point they'll pick up a shield without dropping the buckler first. Like how you can get dwarves to wear a leather armour, chain mail, and plate on top all at the same time if you set them to leather, then chain, then plate. [[User:Furiousfish|Furiousfish]] 20:54, 6 March 2008 (EST)

== Natural Selection ==

Being a bit of a nooblet, and not having much war in any of my fortresses, I'm confused as to how armor selection works.

Would I be correct if I said "Setting a dwarf to wear Plate armor will cause him to grab plate whenever and wherever possible, but substitute leather, chain, or bone wherever no plate is available. So, for example, if my metalsmiths never make helms, but my leatherworker has caps and helms galore, they'll wear plate armor and a leather helm. Right? If so, this should probably be mentioned. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 19:24, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:I've found that a dwarf set to wear plate will grab the best available armor. More puzzling is that they will sometimes stack armor; IE dwarves wearing plate mail and chain mail at the same time. However, I never keep a stock of leather armor, so I wouldn't know if it can be used in conjunction with metal armor.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 22:29 21 April 2008 (EDT)
::The dwarves seem to be notorious for pulling on a full suit of armour ie chain-then-plate, there's a reason a fort I made (whose metal industry relies on eg [[coal]] and [[lignite]]) is making all chain-mail, crossbows and shields to defend against gobbo raids ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 09:13, 3 June 2008 (EDT)
Just wanted to point out that leather armor and plate can't be put on together.

== Gloves ==
My military is set to wear Leather armor, but they don't take leather gloves. High boots, leggings, armor and helmets are used OK. Is the article data incorrect?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:51, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

Some equipment is unavaliable for dwarf use because it is the incorrect size. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:40, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

My guess is that your dwarves are already wearing cloth gloves. This is considered clothing level armor, the same level as leather gloves. They see no reason to switch armor when the leather gloves provide the same "level of protection." I think your best bet would be to dump their cloth gloves, if you're that worried about them. You can always reclaim them later. --[[User:PrettyGrizzly|PrettyGrizzly]] 11:00, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

== Artifacts ==

This has an excellent table defining the bonuses for quality/materials, but completely excludes artifact modifiers. I would assume that these would always be the best, regardless, of material, but I just found myself with a rhesus macaque leather shield and don't know if I should use it in place of, oh, I don't know, a more ''steel'' one.
:Currently, the exact modifier for artifact quality seems to be unknown. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 18:27, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

==Fort-mode equipment quirks==

The edit I just made was prompted by seeing a dwarf wearing ''twelve'' cloaks, and remembering the "cannot wear cloaks" phrase mentioned in the pre-edit version of the bit below the giant table. I tried to reconcile the two statements that were already there, particularly in light of said cloak-happy dwarf. However, there's also one thing I'm wondering about: is the number of equipped items partially determined by what order they're put on in fortress mode? I ''think'' it is, but am not sure, so I decided not to include that. If it's the case, however, I think it'd be worth mentioning along with the cloaks part (even in the old version of the page, should somebody decide to revert my edit or something). --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 20:23, 6 July 2008 (EDT)
:Dungeon masters wear nothing but 12 colors of cloaks and mittens. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 13:07, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Over Under Armor Cover ==

Besides sounding like a Daft Punk chorus, these are four LAYER values. I know what Over and Under do with respect to each other: You can't wear Under on top of Over. Do the others follow the same pattern, are they all ordered? Is there some more mysterious effect for "Cover" and "Armor"? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 01:04, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Decorating Armor ==
Wasn't sure whether to ask this here or under gem setter - is it not possible to get a gem setter to decorate armor? I know leather armor can receive images and bone/shell decorations (and presumably the bone/shell applies to metal as well), I can't fathom why you can't put gems on suits of armor given that.... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:44, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:AFAIK no, it isn't possible to decorate armor or weapons. That's one of the more frequently requested additions on the forums.[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:33, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::It is, however, possible to acquire armor already decorated with gems via trade with a caravan. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:09, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:::Said armor would unlikely to be masterwork, nor with masterwork decorations. Nor would it be made of adamantine. I'm afraid its no real supplement. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:35, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::::Oh, sure, if you want to, like, *survive*. Instead of look pretty. Where are your priorities? :) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:50, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:::::I want to survive *and* look pretty. When faced with a choice of two appealing options, the correct choice is obviously 'yes'. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:01, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::::::I suppose you have a point. Oh, well, back to [[Decoration|Stud with platinum]]. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 19:25, 5 December 2008 (EST)

== Markdwarves only work with bucklers?!?! ==

I guess that makes sense since historically, bucklers were made to strap to the forearm and allow archers to use their bows...

Anyway, it seems my markdwarves don't like it when I make them use a shield. They stop carrying ammunition and won't practice shooting when off duty.

Is this the reason or is something else going on? Anyway, if it is indeed the case that markdwarves don't work with shields, it deserves mention, right?
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 13:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
:It's unclear, for this reason: ThreeToe has stated, point blank, that '''"The two handed code is broken right now... the crossbow is always two handed."''' So it's unclear if a marksdwarf ever actually uses a shield or buckler if they're holding a crossbow - they might be using it 2 handed in melee as well (and I more than suspect they are).

:The way you suspect it to work is, I'd guess, the way it's ''supposed'' to work... whether that has anything to do with the way it ''does'' work is another guess.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 14:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:I've found that the best way is not to assign a buckler/shield at all. They then will use the free hand to carry practice bolts while off duty, while keeping metal bolts in the quiver for use at a moments notice. I suppose if the dwarf was done training, then you could assign a buckler.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 19:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== ARMOR ARTICLE SPLIT/COMBINING?==

[[Leather Armor]], should have it's own page. It is an item, like platemail.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:22, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

:I've been thinking about the "armour" category in general - every different item does not need its very own page. What is there to say about "leather armour" (the item, not the suit)? Look at [[low boot]], or [[leggings]] vs. [[greaves]] - waste of time to have to go to a diff page for each, and it currently takes ''how many'' to get a full picture of "armour"? Isn't this the type of thing that can be all combined into one more useful page?
::*Armor - general
::*Suits of Armor - the 5 basic parts
:::*of leather
:::*of chain
:::*of plate
:*layering
:*known quirks and bugs
:Maybe one page with all pieces, and then another (this) with all the misc information.[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

::I'm thinking of something more along the lines of a page for the different sets, combining the different separate pages for each item of armor.

:::There is a discussion about this page on a user talk page. ''Please discuss the Armor page here.'' And please state any problems or conflicts with the Armor page, so they can be evaluated and discussed.
:::Personally, I have few problems with the page. But then I pretty much know everything the page states, and while I like the comprehensive, factual style of the page it may not be the best style for educating new players. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 14:12, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

(DELETED COMMENTS ON OVER-ENTHUSIASM. Non-relevant now. We move forward.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

===Improving presentation of "Armor" ===

I think the larger point (echoed from posts above) is that, as is, the article makes sense to those who understand it - but isn't optimized for those who don't. There are 3 general problems that I perceive with the articles (plural) as they stand, and those same 3 areas I'd like to see addressed:
:* Scattered information - too many stub articles about individual armour pieces or one tiny facet of "armour".
:* No clean, unified "This all you need (to know) for leather armor", "This what you need (to know) for chain armor" (sub)articles.
:* This article is already borderline too long. Info is getting lost, readers are getting boggled - need a concept split between basic vs. advanced (or something sim). There are 11 sections, w/ some hefty sub-sections - that's too many by half.

(And I think we have to concede that answering the rather arcane question of ''"How does it work, EXACTLY?"'' will be an ongoing process, I'm afraid.)

Spotting problems is easy and cheap - solving them is the tough part. A user wants "all" relevant information in front of them, and not much more - and that'll be diff for each user. But I think we can take a stab at a generally applicable organization. I'd suggest this (as a starting point for this process, ~if~ it's agreed it needs to be addressed) -

2 articles; #1 deals w/ armor at face value for those not interested in the details (what each piece is, how they fit together into suits, how a dwarf puts them on, what craft/shop builds what), and #2 deals with the numbers for the number crunchers and optimizers (repetition of quality/material tables, damblock numbers, and all that issue.) For those Players who are comfortable in the simple (and correct) assumption that chain armour is "better" than leather, the first page gives them all they need to know (perhaps w/ hints & links beyond). For those who need more (a little or a lot), they go to the second page, where they'll find the Protection and Weight tables, and all the details that are teased slowly from the tags and RAW's.

Off the top of my head, I'd call the first page "Armor Guide" (fitting into Category: Guide) - all current "armor" articles would redirect to that one, at least. The second (advanced) article might be titled something like "Armor details" or "Armor values" or "Armor explained", and have all the stuff that boggles the unprepared. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
::I think the creation of armor belongs somewhere else in the wiki. The types of armor should be defined first, with all the exceptions and rules explained in a single article. Another article on the way the pieces layer on top of each other, and a final section of the second article for the defense bonuses of each item and the coverage, and all the other good and juicy technical things. The current layout is two biased towards traditional thinking, and is like trying to push the triangle block into the circle hole in those toys for tykes. It just doesn't fit the technicality that is dwarf fortress.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:53, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I agree re "making armor" - under "Armorsmith" seems reasonable. "Layering" is part of wearing, if an advanced part and one that is often overlooked ''(possibly because that article is lost among so much other bandwidth.)'' I think (depending on final size of the article, and number of sub-sections), that could be put at the bottom of the same page as definitions/how to use, so it's not separate from "suits", but works hand in hand with that info. That would give us a format that looks ''something'' like...
:*Article #1: Armor Guide:
::*Individual Pieces - (copied & improved from the various stub articles, which all then become redirects)
::**the 3 (4?) Levels (lthr, chain, plate - and clothing)
::*Using Armor - basic "how to" (not "advice" or strategies, unless universal warnings)
:::*Layering
::*Shields & Bucklers
::*"Misc" ("oddities") - sizes, wrestling, etc.
:::(deleted/redirected: "Making Armor" & "requirements" -> Armorsmith; possibly dump value table & quality table - redundant)

:*Article #2: "Armor Analysis" - number cruncher's bible ''(needs a better name)''
::*damblock/protection values
::*Chart showing Analysis of diff types/combo's
::*weight explanation
::*size/permit explanation

:::That puts everything the new/intermediate player needs to know about armour on 1 page, and all the "behind the scenes data" on another. Easy conceptual split.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

== Plate over chainmail changed? ==

I cannot get my dwarves to wear plate over chainmail. If I order them to wear chainmail, they wear it, including both a cap and a helm. If I order them to wear plate, they do indeed take off the chainmail first. I think this has been fixed, so I'm putting the appropriate 'verify' tags on the article. I also wonder if the helm-over-cap was always intended, rather than a glitch caused by stepping through armour levels. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 06:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:This has always been treated as a feature, not a bug, but whatever. It is called "layering armor". Dwarfs are also able to wear chain over leather, but not a "lighter" armor over a heavier one. I just tried it, and it works fine - chain over leather, plate over chain, no problem. (Oddly, they won't wear plate mail over leather armor, but such a step-up will cause the cap/helm layering.) vanilla 40d.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

::It's a little more complicated. The '''size and permit''' section of the article explains armor layering. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:22, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Well, that's very strange, then. I've got steel chainmail and steel plate mail, and per above, if I go nothing → chain → plate (giving them time to put everything on at each step), they put almost everything on at the "chain" stage (including both a cap and helm), and then promptly ditch their chainmail in favour of plate at the "plate" stage. Am I misunderstanding this? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 17:36, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Armor

2009-06-01T17:36:37Z

Wisq: /* Plate over chainmail changed? */

==Boots==
Corrected the matter with low and high boots. If you look at the raws you can see that the armor level of both boot types are the same and thus they can both be used as chain and plate armor. My games have proved this to me. Only real difference between the two boot types is that the high boot is heavier and protects more of the body than just the feet. [[User:Noctis|Noctis]] 05:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)

==clothes layers==
Does anyone know the rules of where you can wear each piece of armor? For example, can you wear a high boot and leggings? or only low boots with leggings? Do you need to make two boots? --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 20:30, 9 November 2007 (EST)

: You can wear high boots with leggings. Leggings and high boots have different layers. --[[User:JT|JT]] 17:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)

On a similar note, what's the difference between steel leggings and steel greaves? I would've thought leggings would cover below the knee as well. Do I need both to provide maximum Xtreme protection? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 15:17, 18 November 2007 (EST)

: As far as I can tell, greaves are the Plate class upgrade to leggings, which are Chain class lower body armor. Unlike upper body armor however, dwarves don't appear to be able to wear both leggings and greaves at once and will drop their leggings in favour of a set of greaves when set to Plate armor. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 14:03, 25 November 2007 (EST)

==Protection values==
I would like to know if it's possible to find out the various protection values of different types of armor. For example, we know the material and quality modifiers for armor, but not, say, how much better plate mail protects you than chain. Or whether greaves or high boots offer more coverage.
I ask because I'm wondering if, with high quality modifiers, [[adamantine]] ''clothing'' is viable protection for those who aren't wearing armor. Certainly, it'd make a good halfway measure for those who can't do magma smelting yet, but ''can'' get a Craftsdwarf's Workshop, Loom, and Clothesmaker's Workshop set up to extract the threads, weave them, and make clothes. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 11:48, 13 December 2007 (EST)

==Soldier==

I think some of this article, specifically that stuff in the Using armor section, should be moved over to an article more dedicated to soldier preferences. As it is, it's describing everything about arming civilians with weapons instead of simply talking about armoring civilians; that content seems more appropriate for an article about soldiers or the hunting article. --[[User:JT|JT]] 17:15, 11 November 2007 (EST)

==Verified==

I can verify that whan setting dwarves to chain, they wear gauntlets --[[User:Nog|Nog]] 16:21, 12 November 2007 (EST)

== Table ==

I added a Materials Needed section to the table. Is this OK? --[[User:Nanor|Nanor]] 19 December 2007

:Excellent idea. It looked a little odd in the table, so I moved it to the text instead. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 16:47, 19 December 2007 (EST)

:: Much better! Thanks! --[[User:Nanor|Nanor]] 17:50, 19 December 2007 (EST)

== 23.130.23a ==

We had much more info on armor in the [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Armor old wiki]. Could someone with an account there bring the relevant bits over? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 11:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)

:Edit: Ported over most information; change anything that isn't correct.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 13:06, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Leather Armor re: Caps and Helms ==

A soldier set to leather armor can wear leather helms, not just caps, and they'll wear a cap at the same time underneath (at least, if it's silk. I haven't confirmed yet if a soldier will wear a leather cap + a leather helm; doesn't really matter). This is a good thing because helms (according to the old wiki) have higher Block. They're heavier too but this shouldn't be a problem. --[[User:Stromko|Stromko]] 19:57:15 (PST), January 06 2007

:In the old versions, the materials of the armor pieces were irrelevant, regardless of the fact that the lowest armor level is called "leather". Leather and chain wearers would wear any kind of legging or boot, and a plate wearer would wear even a pig tail helm, if they happened to come across one, showing no preference for better material types or quality. Has this changed, or does the table in this article contain some wrong assumptions?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 02:42, 7 January 2008 (EST)

::I seem to recall that 'light' materials like cloth, shell, and bone effectively 'downgraded' armor by one level, weighed half as much, and were 50% of the maximum effectiveness per their type. However! I can see right now in my current fortress a steel cap is 78 pounds and a cave spider silk cap is 13 pounds. This shows not all old information is correct.

Furthermore, bone and shell doesn't become a 'lighter' class. Shell Gauntlets require Chain or above to be assigned, and Turtle Bone Greaves go un-used until a dwarf is set to Plate.

However, I /can/ confirm from this very fortress I'm looking at right now, that dwarves assigned to leather went to pick up and wear Leather Helms. Unless, that is, they already have metal Caps. I'm looking at a marksdwarf right now assigned to wear Leather who has a Steel Cap, a pig tail hood (they all have hoods), and no helm. Everybody else has a leather helm.

I should note my fortress has no metal helms lying around, nor does it have spare metal caps, so I'm unable to verify that dwarves set to Leather wouldn't wear metal Helms or preferentially choose caps (they'd probably choose /either/ Metal Caps or Leather Helms if given a choice). However, I'm pretty sure they would not. Therefore, it is my understanding that they make a distinction between different material types. --[[User:Stromko|Stromko]] 03:22 (PST), January 07 2007

== Shields and Bucklers ==

Hmm it states here that dwarves can wear BOTH shields and bucklers, however in soldiering screen you can select EITHER shield OR buckler, but NOT both. Does this part of article apply to Adv. mode only? Could someone verify, please? --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 18:21, 24 February 2008 (EST)

I would guess the trick is to tell them to use bucklers first, waiting til they pick one up, then telling them to use shields, at which point they'll pick up a shield without dropping the buckler first. Like how you can get dwarves to wear a leather armour, chain mail, and plate on top all at the same time if you set them to leather, then chain, then plate. [[User:Furiousfish|Furiousfish]] 20:54, 6 March 2008 (EST)

== Natural Selection ==

Being a bit of a nooblet, and not having much war in any of my fortresses, I'm confused as to how armor selection works.

Would I be correct if I said "Setting a dwarf to wear Plate armor will cause him to grab plate whenever and wherever possible, but substitute leather, chain, or bone wherever no plate is available. So, for example, if my metalsmiths never make helms, but my leatherworker has caps and helms galore, they'll wear plate armor and a leather helm. Right? If so, this should probably be mentioned. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 19:24, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:I've found that a dwarf set to wear plate will grab the best available armor. More puzzling is that they will sometimes stack armor; IE dwarves wearing plate mail and chain mail at the same time. However, I never keep a stock of leather armor, so I wouldn't know if it can be used in conjunction with metal armor.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 22:29 21 April 2008 (EDT)
::The dwarves seem to be notorious for pulling on a full suit of armour ie chain-then-plate, there's a reason a fort I made (whose metal industry relies on eg [[coal]] and [[lignite]]) is making all chain-mail, crossbows and shields to defend against gobbo raids ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 09:13, 3 June 2008 (EDT)
Just wanted to point out that leather armor and plate can't be put on together.

== Gloves ==
My military is set to wear Leather armor, but they don't take leather gloves. High boots, leggings, armor and helmets are used OK. Is the article data incorrect?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 04:51, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

Some equipment is unavaliable for dwarf use because it is the incorrect size. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:40, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

My guess is that your dwarves are already wearing cloth gloves. This is considered clothing level armor, the same level as leather gloves. They see no reason to switch armor when the leather gloves provide the same "level of protection." I think your best bet would be to dump their cloth gloves, if you're that worried about them. You can always reclaim them later. --[[User:PrettyGrizzly|PrettyGrizzly]] 11:00, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

== Artifacts ==

This has an excellent table defining the bonuses for quality/materials, but completely excludes artifact modifiers. I would assume that these would always be the best, regardless, of material, but I just found myself with a rhesus macaque leather shield and don't know if I should use it in place of, oh, I don't know, a more ''steel'' one.
:Currently, the exact modifier for artifact quality seems to be unknown. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 18:27, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

==Fort-mode equipment quirks==

The edit I just made was prompted by seeing a dwarf wearing ''twelve'' cloaks, and remembering the "cannot wear cloaks" phrase mentioned in the pre-edit version of the bit below the giant table. I tried to reconcile the two statements that were already there, particularly in light of said cloak-happy dwarf. However, there's also one thing I'm wondering about: is the number of equipped items partially determined by what order they're put on in fortress mode? I ''think'' it is, but am not sure, so I decided not to include that. If it's the case, however, I think it'd be worth mentioning along with the cloaks part (even in the old version of the page, should somebody decide to revert my edit or something). --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 20:23, 6 July 2008 (EDT)
:Dungeon masters wear nothing but 12 colors of cloaks and mittens. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 13:07, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

== Over Under Armor Cover ==

Besides sounding like a Daft Punk chorus, these are four LAYER values. I know what Over and Under do with respect to each other: You can't wear Under on top of Over. Do the others follow the same pattern, are they all ordered? Is there some more mysterious effect for "Cover" and "Armor"? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 01:04, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Decorating Armor ==
Wasn't sure whether to ask this here or under gem setter - is it not possible to get a gem setter to decorate armor? I know leather armor can receive images and bone/shell decorations (and presumably the bone/shell applies to metal as well), I can't fathom why you can't put gems on suits of armor given that.... --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 11:44, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:AFAIK no, it isn't possible to decorate armor or weapons. That's one of the more frequently requested additions on the forums.[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:33, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::It is, however, possible to acquire armor already decorated with gems via trade with a caravan. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:09, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:::Said armor would unlikely to be masterwork, nor with masterwork decorations. Nor would it be made of adamantine. I'm afraid its no real supplement. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 16:35, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::::Oh, sure, if you want to, like, *survive*. Instead of look pretty. Where are your priorities? :) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 16:50, 5 December 2008 (EST)
:::::I want to survive *and* look pretty. When faced with a choice of two appealing options, the correct choice is obviously 'yes'. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:01, 5 December 2008 (EST)
::::::I suppose you have a point. Oh, well, back to [[Decoration|Stud with platinum]]. --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 19:25, 5 December 2008 (EST)

== Markdwarves only work with bucklers?!?! ==

I guess that makes sense since historically, bucklers were made to strap to the forearm and allow archers to use their bows...

Anyway, it seems my markdwarves don't like it when I make them use a shield. They stop carrying ammunition and won't practice shooting when off duty.

Is this the reason or is something else going on? Anyway, if it is indeed the case that markdwarves don't work with shields, it deserves mention, right?
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 13:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
:It's unclear, for this reason: ThreeToe has stated, point blank, that '''"The two handed code is broken right now... the crossbow is always two handed."''' So it's unclear if a marksdwarf ever actually uses a shield or buckler if they're holding a crossbow - they might be using it 2 handed in melee as well (and I more than suspect they are).

:The way you suspect it to work is, I'd guess, the way it's ''supposed'' to work... whether that has anything to do with the way it ''does'' work is another guess.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 14:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:I've found that the best way is not to assign a buckler/shield at all. They then will use the free hand to carry practice bolts while off duty, while keeping metal bolts in the quiver for use at a moments notice. I suppose if the dwarf was done training, then you could assign a buckler.--[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 19:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== ARMOR ARTICLE SPLIT/COMBINING?==

[[Leather Armor]], should have it's own page. It is an item, like platemail.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:22, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

:I've been thinking about the "armour" category in general - every different item does not need its very own page. What is there to say about "leather armour" (the item, not the suit)? Look at [[low boot]], or [[leggings]] vs. [[greaves]] - waste of time to have to go to a diff page for each, and it currently takes ''how many'' to get a full picture of "armour"? Isn't this the type of thing that can be all combined into one more useful page?
::*Armor - general
::*Suits of Armor - the 5 basic parts
:::*of leather
:::*of chain
:::*of plate
:*layering
:*known quirks and bugs
:Maybe one page with all pieces, and then another (this) with all the misc information.[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 23:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

::I'm thinking of something more along the lines of a page for the different sets, combining the different separate pages for each item of armor.

:::There is a discussion about this page on a user talk page. ''Please discuss the Armor page here.'' And please state any problems or conflicts with the Armor page, so they can be evaluated and discussed.
:::Personally, I have few problems with the page. But then I pretty much know everything the page states, and while I like the comprehensive, factual style of the page it may not be the best style for educating new players. --[[User:Nahno|Nahno]] 14:12, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

(DELETED COMMENTS ON OVER-ENTHUSIASM. Non-relevant now. We move forward.) --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

===Improving presentation of "Armor" ===

I think the larger point (echoed from posts above) is that, as is, the article makes sense to those who understand it - but isn't optimized for those who don't. There are 3 general problems that I perceive with the articles (plural) as they stand, and those same 3 areas I'd like to see addressed:
:* Scattered information - too many stub articles about individual armour pieces or one tiny facet of "armour".
:* No clean, unified "This all you need (to know) for leather armor", "This what you need (to know) for chain armor" (sub)articles.
:* This article is already borderline too long. Info is getting lost, readers are getting boggled - need a concept split between basic vs. advanced (or something sim). There are 11 sections, w/ some hefty sub-sections - that's too many by half.

(And I think we have to concede that answering the rather arcane question of ''"How does it work, EXACTLY?"'' will be an ongoing process, I'm afraid.)

Spotting problems is easy and cheap - solving them is the tough part. A user wants "all" relevant information in front of them, and not much more - and that'll be diff for each user. But I think we can take a stab at a generally applicable organization. I'd suggest this (as a starting point for this process, ~if~ it's agreed it needs to be addressed) -

2 articles; #1 deals w/ armor at face value for those not interested in the details (what each piece is, how they fit together into suits, how a dwarf puts them on, what craft/shop builds what), and #2 deals with the numbers for the number crunchers and optimizers (repetition of quality/material tables, damblock numbers, and all that issue.) For those Players who are comfortable in the simple (and correct) assumption that chain armour is "better" than leather, the first page gives them all they need to know (perhaps w/ hints & links beyond). For those who need more (a little or a lot), they go to the second page, where they'll find the Protection and Weight tables, and all the details that are teased slowly from the tags and RAW's.

Off the top of my head, I'd call the first page "Armor Guide" (fitting into Category: Guide) - all current "armor" articles would redirect to that one, at least. The second (advanced) article might be titled something like "Armor details" or "Armor values" or "Armor explained", and have all the stuff that boggles the unprepared. --[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 00:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
::I think the creation of armor belongs somewhere else in the wiki. The types of armor should be defined first, with all the exceptions and rules explained in a single article. Another article on the way the pieces layer on top of each other, and a final section of the second article for the defense bonuses of each item and the coverage, and all the other good and juicy technical things. The current layout is two biased towards traditional thinking, and is like trying to push the triangle block into the circle hole in those toys for tykes. It just doesn't fit the technicality that is dwarf fortress.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 18:53, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I agree re "making armor" - under "Armorsmith" seems reasonable. "Layering" is part of wearing, if an advanced part and one that is often overlooked ''(possibly because that article is lost among so much other bandwidth.)'' I think (depending on final size of the article, and number of sub-sections), that could be put at the bottom of the same page as definitions/how to use, so it's not separate from "suits", but works hand in hand with that info. That would give us a format that looks ''something'' like...
:*Article #1: Armor Guide:
::*Individual Pieces - (copied & improved from the various stub articles, which all then become redirects)
::**the 3 (4?) Levels (lthr, chain, plate - and clothing)
::*Using Armor - basic "how to" (not "advice" or strategies, unless universal warnings)
:::*Layering
::*Shields & Bucklers
::*"Misc" ("oddities") - sizes, wrestling, etc.
:::(deleted/redirected: "Making Armor" & "requirements" -> Armorsmith; possibly dump value table & quality table - redundant)

:*Article #2: "Armor Analysis" - number cruncher's bible ''(needs a better name)''
::*damblock/protection values
::*Chart showing Analysis of diff types/combo's
::*weight explanation
::*size/permit explanation

:::That puts everything the new/intermediate player needs to know about armour on 1 page, and all the "behind the scenes data" on another. Easy conceptual split.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 11:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

== Plate over chainmail changed? ==

I cannot get my dwarves to wear plate over chainmail. If I order them to wear chainmail, they wear it, including both a cap and a helm. If I order them to wear plate, they do indeed take off the chainmail first. I think this has been fixed, so I'm putting the appropriate 'verify' tags on the article. I also wonder if the helm-over-cap was always intended, rather than a glitch caused by stepping through armour levels. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 06:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:This has always been treated as a feature, not a bug, but whatever. It is called "layering armor". Dwarfs are also able to wear chain over leather, but not a "lighter" armor over a heavier one. I just tried it, and it works fine - chain over leather, plate over chain, no problem. (Oddly, they won't wear plate mail over leather armor, but such a step-up will cause the cap/helm layering.) vanilla 40d.--[[User:Albedo|Albedo]] 07:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

::It's a little more complicated. The '''size and permit''' section of the article explains armor layering. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:22, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

:::Well, that's very strange, then. I've got steel chainmail and steel plate mail, and per above, if I go nothing → chain → plate (giving them time to put everything on at each step), they put almost everything on at the "chain" stage, and then promptly ditch their chainmail in favour of plate at the "plate" stage. Am I misunderstanding this? — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 17:36, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

40d:Dog

2009-06-01T08:34:23Z

Wisq:

{{CreatureInfo|name=Dog|symbol=d|color={{COLOR:6:0:0}}|bones=5|fat=1|skin=Yes|skulls=1|chunks=5|meat=5|biome= Common domestic}}

A [[Dwarf|dwarf's]] best friend, '''dogs''' are the only [[animal]]s that can be [[kennel|trained]] to assist your [[dwarves]] in [[combat]] as either war dogs or hunting dogs. Like all tame [[animal]]s they can serve as an [[butchering|emergency food supply]] and provide you with [[bones]], [[leather]], and [[skulls]]. Note that dogs are the most point-efficient source of [[meat]] and [[fat]] available from the embark screen.

== Using dogs ==

* Dogs left to their own devices will wander around, spending most of their time in [[Meeting hall|meeting areas]], and will attack any [[invader|hostiles]] they see.
* As with any friendly creature, dogs can spot ambushers and thieves. You can assign dogs to [[cage]]s or [[chain]]s to act as guard dogs.
** Guard dogs work particularly well when placed behind a hall of traps or other siege-breaking devices. The traps will prevent aggressive invaders from harming the dogs, while the dogs prevent thieves from sneaking past the traps into the base. (Ideally, the dogs should be out of view of the trap corridor to prevent injury from ranged weapons.)
* You can [[Assign animal|assign]] a war dog or hunting dog to a dwarf via his dogs menu ({{K|v}}, select dwarf, {{K|p}}, {{K|e}}) to help him in combat. It will follow the dwarf like a [[pet]].
** Note: Once a dog is assigned to a dwarf it can not be unassigned nor placed in a [[cage]]. However, a wounded dog may be caught in a [[cage trap]]{{version|0.28.181.40d}}.
**A work-around for this is, when you train the dog, to use the dwarf you want the dog to be assigned to. Unassigned war dogs and hunting dogs follow the dwarf who trained them, while still allowing them to be caged.
** In addition, it is currently{{version|0.28.181.40d}} impossible to assign war dogs to [[champions]], as their {{K|p}}references menu is blocked with the message "This hero need not work".

== Differences between war and hunting dogs ==

War and hunting dogs are trained at the [[kennel]]. War dogs do double damage.

[[Toady One]]: ''"A hunting animal will target the creature its owner is targeting if the owner is hunting, and it will be sneaking without a movement penalty if it is reasonably close to its hunting owner. A hunting animal notices creatures from farther away, although this isn't exactly effective if it decides to target what its owner is targeting. It all needs a bit of work, but that is true of hunting in general."''

{{Game_Data|[CREATURE:DOG]
[NAME:dog:dogs:dog]
[TILE:'d'][COLOR:6:0:0]
[PETVALUE:30][NATURAL]
[BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC][TRAINABLE][PET]
[BONECARN]
[PREFSTRING:loyalty]
[BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:PAW]
[SIZE:5]
[MAXAGE:10:20]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:1][CHILDNAME:puppy:puppies]
[FAT:1]
[DIURNAL]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10070]
[LAYERING:100]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
}}
{{Creatures}}
[[Category:Animals]]

40d:Sleep

2009-06-01T06:58:02Z

Wisq:

[[Dwarves]] '''sleep''' approximately every month and a half (6 weeks), and will sleep for 1-2 weeks. They prefer to sleep indoors, on a [[bed]], in their own room, and the quality or roughness of the item or surface they are resting on will have an impact on their happiness when they awaken. The restfulness of their sleep also has an impact on their happiness, and depends upon where they are sleeping and whether or not there is any [[noise]] reaching them.

A sleeping dwarf flashes between their standard icon and {{tile|Z|#808080|#000}}.

Sleeping dwarves are marked as being [[unconscious]]. It should also be noted that [[trap]]s will activate for ''any'' unconscious entity. This combination has the potential to be very dangerous, very useful, and/or very amusing. However, as of the current version, it appears that dwarves will no longer go to sleep on traps, even if that means staying awake until they go insane.{{v|0.28.181.40d}}

[[Category:Thoughts]]

40d:Sleep

2009-06-01T06:57:23Z

Wisq:

[[Dwarves]] '''sleep''' approximately every month and a half (6 weeks), and will sleep for 1-2 weeks. They prefer to sleep indoors, on a [[bed]], in their own room, and the quality or roughness of the item or surface they are resting on will have an impact on their happiness when they awaken. The restfulness of their sleep also has an impact on their happiness, and depends upon where they are sleeping and whether or not there is any [[noise]] reaching them.

A sleeping dwarf flashes between their standard icon and {{tile|Z|#808080|#000}}.

Sleeping dwarves are marked as being [[unconscious]]. It should also be noted that [[trap]]s will activate for ''any'' unconscious entity. This combination has the potential to be very dangerous, very useful, and/or very amusing. However, as of the current version, it appears that dwarves will no longer go to sleep on cage traps at all.{{v|0.28.181.40d}}

[[Category:Thoughts]]

40d Talk:Captured creatures

2009-06-01T06:55:36Z

Wisq: /* Capturing friends */

== Taming ==
It looks like animals that killed any "good" creatures (such as elves or humans) can't be tamed (will go rampart as soon as they are released from cages).
I've got my whole fortress sealed off, a dragon came, after being hit by few stone traps and killing whole elven caravan, it fell into a cage trap. I tamed him (I do have a Dungeon Master) but when I tried to chain him before the entrance he started to kill dwarfs as soon as he was released from cage. I'm 100% sure it didn't kill any dwarfs (only a war dog) before falling in to a trap, and I'm certain it killed at least one elf. I'm using 27.176.38c, not modded in any way. --[[User:Tomato|Tomato]] 02:58, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Just to clarify a little here, it doesnt seem that killing tame animals will trigger untamability, but if Tomato's experiences are anything to go by, watch out if other civilized entities have been slain. (I am reasonably sure that tame animals are ok, by an experimental process of de-stealthing a GCS by throwing a dog into its cave, taming it, and letting it wander around in my base for a month or so waiting for the death messages) --[[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] 10:30, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

:I have captured a unicorn that was formerly an elvish mount and it's sitting peacefully in a cage. I am fairly sure that it did not draw any friendly blood before the cage trap got it, but when I queue up a taming job at the kennels, nothing happens. Is the unicorn immune to taming because it served under a hostile force? --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 13:35, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

== magma ==
Initial questions: will cages melt and its inhabitants be killed if magma is released onto it and the cage is non-magma-resistant?
:Yes, I burnt a bunch of useless donkeys and kittens this way. [[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 12:32, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

== breed in cages?==
I've done the cages to massive herds idea, but it doesn't work. They'll give birth just fine while in the cage (and the babies *won't* be locked in the cage, btw) but I've gone three years without a birth until a couple seasons after I released them all to presumably breed again. If you ask me, the ideal herd would be contained in a pit that's had access walled off, since (I believe) pathfinding lag isn't a factor when it's a wall, not a locked door.

Yea, I'm feeling a bit lazy right now, or I'd have edited this stuff into the article myself. Feel free to add it in and remove this, assuming I haven't just ended up in some weird situation where they just happen to have been pregnant for 3 years... --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:56, 10 January 2008 (EST)
: I am not exactly sure, but i think both a cow and a dog have given birth inside a cage after being in there for more than a year. So i toned down the statement in the article.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 10:02, 27 February 2008 (EST)

Actually, the babies born in cages thing is true, but it works this way: the baby is born in the cage but is not ''assigned'' in the cage. So when it's born, a dwarf will immediately rush to free it. (Tried this by building a cage behind forbidden doors and the baby remained in the cage.)

By the way, how do you put a timestamp behind your edit? This timestamp below I have manually typed in. --[[User:ShunterAlhena]] 09:12, 11 January 2008 (EST)

:use <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> or the button that looks like a signature ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 08:04, 11 January 2008 (EST)

== STOP HIM!!! ==

How am I supposed to put a captured goblin in an arena without letting the little bastard go? [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 00:05, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:A lever based enter/exit door for the arena so you can lock it, His combatent will probably have to be the one to let him go in that case. Or use a pit of some kind. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 04:01, 25 January 2008 (EST)
My problem more lies with transporting the goblins from an animal stockpile to my arena/pit, which simply had the goblin released from his cage. [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 04:32, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:Is there a problem with building a cage using the cage the gobbo's in? As for releasing... you do know levers work on cages too, right? --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 05:37, 25 January 2008 (EST)
Just to clarify, I have a problem transporting the goblin, not releasing him. When I attempted to move him, the goblin was released in the animal stockpile. I'm not sure how to specify build the cage that the goblin is using, but that would probably work, yes. [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 05:52, 25 January 2008 (EST)
::You would {{k|b}}uild ca{{k|j}}e (yes its j to build a cage) [[User:Jikor|Jikor]] 06:51, 25 January 2008 (EST)

IIRC, in order to assign a creature to an existing cage, it first has to be taken out of the cage it's in and carried over to the new cage. However, the dwarf moving it in this way may suddenly realise they are carrying a dangerous 'thing' and drop it. This can be avoided by building the cage directly, which does not require taking the creature out. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 07:59, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:With the current (.38c) version I have noticed that transporting goblin soldiers is fine, the poor goblin just trails along and gets moved while goblin thieves will escape when tried to be moved. Perhaps it has something to do with sneaking vs not-sneaking. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 00:06, 10 April 2008 (EDT)
:I know for certian this behavior held in 0.23.130.23a. I imagine it probably hasn't changed since 0.27.169.33g. I tagged the article with 0.23.130.23a, so if someone knows better, please change it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 08:09, 25 January 2008 (EST)
Whenever I build the cage, the dwarves just bring an empty one. I still haven't figured out a way to build exactly the cage the goblins are in. [[User:Patarak|Patarak]] 14:11, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:{{k|b}}uild menu -> ca{{k|j}}e [sic], then press e{{k|x}}pand list to see the indivudial cages with quality levels instead of a broader category list. Pick the one that's called "Goblin Cage(''materialname'')" and the dwarves will construct the cage with the gobbo still inside. Then link it up to a lever, station your executioner in a locked room with it, and yank the lever to start your pitfight. --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 10:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)
::No more reusable method? I mean, for next fight the cage has to be dismantled, then new cage built and connected to a lever. I could imagine "dumping" the goblin right onto the cage (set as cage trap?) on the arena (short pit/pond shaft right above) should work?
:::One method would be to {{k|b}}uild the cage on some kind of isolated platform that would force the combatant to run back across a grate or other pit trap, then pull a lever or whatever to drop them in. Puts whoever opens the cage at risk, though.
::::No "more reusable" method is really possible with a lever-triggered cage in the equation; opening a cage via lever is a one-time exercise, and a mechanic has to reset the lever and cage's mechanisms. If you wanted to avoid this I suppose you could have a dwarf remove the creature from its cage and dump it into the arena as outlined in the "injury tower" section, but it's probably not worth risking the creature escaping, IMO. Re-linking the cage and lever only takes a few seconds and your mechanic will re-use the mechanism anyway. [[User:Kirig Stonebeard|Kirig Stonebeard]] 23:44, 1 March 2009 (EST)

== RE: Arenas section ==

Is it actually possible to strip the weapons and armour off a captured creature as suggested here? --[[User:TangoThree|TangoThree]] 11:15, 26 January 2008 (EST)

: Yep, Check out the talk page for cages, under "Captured thieves" someone should probably integrate that info this article. --[[User:The Flying Febe|The Flying Febe]] 23:20, 3 February 2008 (EST)

== Sentry Animals? ==

Can tamed creatures be used as sentries? Or would I have to have a dwarf? 
--[[User:Lordmick134|Lordmick134]] 22:43, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

:Yes. Build a chain or rope and attach a tame creature to it, and it will have a good chance of spotting any nearby thieves or other sneaking creatures. I usually set up 2-3 chained critters in alcoves along my entry halls for that purpose. --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 02:55, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

::Can caged animals see ambushers farther away than the 8 tiles adjacent to them? I figure they probably don't (in which case they're still plenty useful anyways), but it'd make it a lot easier to cover large areas if I don't have to put a cage every third tile. [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 20:08, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

No. The best way is to set up some high-traffic areas, and make sure all your valuables are indoors and that any potential ambushers have to get past your security. For example;
:xxx
:xOx
:xxx

If you put your roped animal in the middle they will have access to all 8 tiles around them with very little chance of an enemy bypassing it. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:09, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:I was afraid of that. Ambushers getting into the fortress isn't a problem because I've already done what you describe (and racked up a hell of a kill count in the process =P ). I was just hoping for a better way to help keep ambushers away from stuff like road-builders and caravans that my Corridor of Doom can't protect. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 13:45, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Animal Training Labor ==

The article said only a dwarf with Animal Training activated will release animals. I had a dwarf releasing and caging animals with no labors active, except pump operating. Using 38c. --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 15:31, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

:I don't know where it says that, so I'll leave it to you to fix it. You're correct; the article is wrong. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:48, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

::I already fixed it --[[User:Strangething|Strangething]] 20:31, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

== Capturing friends ==

Does anyone know of a way to capture friendly entities? Elves would be awesome but I was thinking more like my own dwarves, without makind them go berserk (I'm also trying to figure out whether or not it counts as lowering population, and if not what happens if you sell them?). --[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 20:00, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

:I think that making them go to sleep on a cage trap (such as by locking them in a 1x1 room with said trap in it) will do it.[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 20:58, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

:: Ah yes probably, didn't think of that...thanks! Maybe we should include it if it's veryfied? There's lots of fun to be had with captured dwarves and humans/elves I think. --[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 21:31, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

:: It was pretty hard but I managed to catch one! The trick is to dig a 3-4 z-levels hole with a hatch over it (or bridge, etc), and have a cage at the bottom. Draft someone and make him stand there while someone pulls the lever. 2 dead dwarves (and the one in the cage gravely wounded I suspect) but it was worth it. The 1x1 room thing didn't work, as they tended to starve before they actually fainted...or maybe I didn't wait long enough? More testing to come and then maybe I can include that in the article. --[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 22:24, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

:: The dwarf was automatically released and helped by others... I guess the only way to keep dwarves locked is to make them go berserk...

:From my own testing, I locked a dungeon master in a 2x1 room with a cage trap and a lever (used as bait) with food and booze available. If I left her as-is, she would sleep on the lever space, but never on the trap. I had a dwarf enter (airlock style), remove the lever, and replace it with a wall. But now she just wouldn't go to sleep at all. She got drowsy, then very drowsy, then went insane and starved herself to death.

:I've seen similar behaviour in my other dwarves. If I use the draft technique to get normal immigrants into the death rooms, they get drowsy but die of dehydration before they sleep. If I do the same with nobles (who need a lever as a lure), they sleep on the lever before they die, always. My guess is, Toady solved the "traps kill sleeping dwarves" problem by simply marking traps as a place dwarves cannot sleep on under any circumstances. And per above, I suspect they would be let out of the cage if they got caught anyway.

:That being said, if you don't mind a one-in-three chance of capturing a dwarf, you could simply put them in a 1x1 room with food and drink, wait for them to go insane, and hope it's berserk so you can capture them. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 06:29, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

::I believe this is confirmed by a changelog entry; see [[Talk:Suicide_booth#A_new_barrier_for_the_noble_variant]]. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 06:55, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

== Slavery? ==

Is it possible to sell caged entities? I once tried to sell a caged Goblin (Pedogob, I think it was) to Dwarven Merchants, and the Goblin was released from its cage when the cage was set down in the Depot. Did I do something wrong, or is it just not possible? --[[User:Nekojin|Nekojin]]

: Bug #41 (or was it 40?). Sometimes (not always) a dwarf will take only the cage without its content to the depot. --[[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 11:02, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

== "This can be avoided by building the cage the animal is in" ==

Caveat — When an animal is captured via a cage trap and then assigned to an existing cage, the dwarf moving the animal will tend to let it go. This can be avoided by building the cage the animal is in.v0.27.176.38c

Can we get some clarification on the last sentence? [[User:SwallowedSpear|SwallowedSpear]] 18:56, 11 January 2009 (EST)

:In DF, building an object can (and often does) refer to placing it as a building. EG: "I have 20 limonite tables for my dining hall, but I didn't build them yet". Does that clear it up? [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 19:18, 11 January 2009 (EST)

::Well, does it mean that if, say, a goblin gets caught in a *Lead cage*, you should "build" that same *Lead Cage* where you want it to go? [[User:SwallowedSpear|SwallowedSpear]] 19:49, 12 January 2009 (EST)

:::Yes. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:07, 12 January 2009 (EST)

== Jailbreak ==

I had caught goblins in my traps over the years. I put all the cages in a big room because I didn't know what else to do with them ... then during the second siege of my fortress I caught a GOBLIN MACE LORD! 
I read the arena section and put him in there with a giant jaguar. Locked the door and pulled the lever.. the mace lord literally tore the giant jaguar apart and began walking in a circle inside of the room.. I don't get it. 
I thought that he could at least try to free his captured brethren. That way an army of 7 would form and even though they were mostly thieves a simple locked rock door shouldn't be able to hold a MACE LORD and his 6 followers captive now would it? Am I the only one who thinks this would be a welcome change? --[[User:Aspgren|Aspgren]] 05:25, 7 Feb 2009 (CET)

:Toady actually reads the suggestions in the DF forums. If you have an idea and an interest in seeing it happen, here is not the best place to put it. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 00:26, 7 February 2009 (EST)

== Injury Shaft ==

Is it only me or does the instructions to build sound confusing? I'm having a hard time deciphering it. --[[User:Myroc|Myroc]] 08:05, 14 February 2009 (EST)
:Hopefully this will help =) [[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 12:17, 14 February 2009 (EST)

== Goblin-raised dwarfs ==

So, my fort has a lot of cage traps. I've been just chucking captured goblin invaders down through the baracks roof to give the rookies some combat experience, but last time the fort got attacked, there were some dwarfs among them. So, now I have three captured dwarves in cages. Unfortunately, I cannot 'pit' them into the baracks. I have tried building cages and 'unassigning' the invader-dwarves from the cages, but nothing happens when I do so. When I tried to use a lever to free them, someone came and dismantled the cage. How does one free one's long-lost children so they can get a face-full of crossbow? [[User:Dogun|Dogun]] 20:56, 22 February 2009 (EST)

== This brooks some discussion. ==

I channeled out a couple tiles on the side of a brook, assigned as a pit and tossed a goblin in. The poor bugger EXPLODED. As in chunks and limbs everywhere. No carp or anything in the brook, no fighty friendlies anywhere nearby, just one very dead goblin.

I'm not sure what version I'm using, it's the latest as of maybe the start of the month. I'm not modding at all.
Also, goblin ambush, still at seven dwarves. WTF? [[User:Blargityblarg|Blargityblarg]]

: Just did it again with the second goblin I captured. This one took some time to drown, but also exploded.[[User:Blargityblarg|Blargityblarg]]

40d Talk:Suicide booth

2009-06-01T06:54:26Z

Wisq: /* A new barrier for the noble variant */

40d:Suicide booth

2009-06-01T06:51:17Z

Wisq: /* The basic booth */

{{D for Dwarf}}

A '''suicide booth''' is a tiny room used to dispose of useless [[migrant]]s and obnoxious [[noble]]s. It takes advantage of the fact that [[sleep]]ing dwarves trigger traps.

=The basic booth=

The booth is a tiny room containing only a [[trap]], and sealed with a door. The only place to stand is on the trap. Lure your victim to the booth, and lock him in. Eventually he'll fall asleep, and the trap springs.

==Baiting the trap==

For most dwarves, you can draft the victim into the [[military]], and station him inside the booth.

Nobles are a little trickier, since they can't be drafted. You can get around this by placing a [[lever]] inside the booth. Pulling levers is one of the few tasks that nobles will do. Set the lever's profile so that only the noble can pull it. Link the lever to the door to avoid the need for micromanagement. There is a chance that the victim will sleep on the lever, rather than the trap.

==Non-lethal variant==

For a non-lethal booth, use a [[cage]] trap. Unlock the door, and a dwarf will come along to haul the dwarf cage to an animal stockpile. This lets you keep your [[hammerer]] in cold storage, or export your migrants back to the [[Mountainhomes]].

==Slow variant==

Recent testing suggests that dwarves will no longer fall asleep on traps, rendering the above two approaches impossible.{{v|0.28.181.40d}} A simpler (but less entertaining) approach is just to wait for the dwarf to die of dehydration or starvation.

40d Talk:Sleep

2009-06-01T06:43:26Z

Wisq:

== Sleep + traps ==

Source for info about sleep + unconsciousness + traps: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=20997.0 --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 22:47, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

:See [[Talk:Captured_creatures#Capturing_friends]]. It's possible this has been "fixed" by simply not letting dwarves sleep on traps. I assume unconsciousness via other means will still work. — [[User:Wisq|Wisq]] ([[User talk:Wisq|talk]]) 06:43, 1 June 2009 (UTC)