Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d Talk:Screw pump

2009-03-28T00:58:10Z

Yidda: /* Pump Rate */ new section

{{archive|
#[[Talk:Screw pump|Current discussion]]
#[[Talk:Screw pump/archive1|Archive1]]
}}

== Archiving ==

See [[/archive1]] for discussions before July '08.
Most discussion was regarding page development which has been implemented. There are a few comments which might help people trying to work things out but most of it is in the article.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:56, 5 July 2008 (EDT)

==Two versions of the L-shaped tunnels design==
As I said when I removed it, there is no point having two. Do not add mine back in again. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 21:57, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

You'd also cut how to set up water wheels & connect them to the pump tower. I wasn't 100% certain how to diagram connecting the wheels to the smaller tower design so I thought it best to restore the whole section until someone added that into the L-shape design. [[User:Calenth|Calenth]]

== Pumping Magma? ==

Would this work if the pump was made of magma-safe materials? --[[User:Mizzy|Mizzy]] 21:10, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

:Please check a talk page's [[Talk:Screw_pump/archive1#Materials_for_magma_pumps|archives]] before asking a question. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 02:46, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

:An edit to the [[Stupid dwarf trick]] page implied that only the blocks need be made of magma-safe materials. This needs to be studied further. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 17:28, 2 August 2008 (EDT)
::I have been building magma pumps out of wood (pipe/screw) and stone blocks for ages now; there are no detrimental effects. Since non-bauxite/non-raw adamantine stones are not magma safe, presumably a wooden block will work as well (a waste of logs if you have stone, though). It is only an issue if any part of the pump (namely, the walkable end) is going to be submerged in magma. You're probably working with a poor design if your pumps are submerged in what they're pumping, but whatever. In that case your best bet is to use green glass tubes/screws/blocks, if you have sand. Metal is a last resort. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 20:59, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
:::Wait - glass is magma-safe? what's its melting point? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 23:29, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Glass itself appears to be hardcoded and from what I can tell does not have a melting point. Pretty sure glass is magma safe. I have never had problems with it. It's a nice way to get infinite tubes and corkscrews. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 23:27, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Just tried to build a pump using a nickel block with a wooden screw and a wooden tube. All it created was a huge mess and a bit of smoke and fire. Luckily, the pump is separated enough from my fort that I can just let the magma cool before moving back in.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 00:57, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
:Did you make sure the magma coming out of the pump (on the same z-level of the pump) couldn't go back around and over the back of the pump? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:56, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
::Hmm...actually, I had to cut a whole because the dwarf who constructed it had the bright idea to get himself stuck by standing on the walkable tile. I guess maybe I should put a door there to allow access while blocking the magma next time to make sure it work.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 12:59, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
::Tested this again. There is no problem using a wooden Archimedes screw (giant wood screw+giant pipe) to pump magma as long as the block used is magma proof and magma does not leak around to the passable tile. The second that happens, though, the pump bursts into flame.--[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 02:29, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
:::Upon further testing, it seems that wooden magma pumps can work, but only for so long. As soon as the magma reaches a certain height, it burns up the wood and pushes the burn-proof block out of the way. I just lost about 10 worker dwarves in a accident trying to create an above ground lava cistern for my glass fortress, as soon as it reached an average level of about 5, the pump gave way. Between those deaths and the ones from the recent goblin ambush, I fear my fortress will devolve into madness and tantrums any day now. ADDENDUM: I would also like to add that the magma has just ''burned a hole through 2 z-levels of sand'' and is now flooding my workshops. It seems that the red liquid deserves a lot more respect and caution in the latest release. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]]

== Self powered pumps ==

So I'm just starting a new fortress, its got everything but an easy to make moat, but there is a river start to the east a little and two or three levels lower than my entrance. So, what I'm wondering is, is there some easy way to get a hydraulic powered pump going off of the power of the water being pumped (after the dwarves do the initial pumping). Also if anyone has diagrams or something of how to easily bring water up two or three levels (or possibly higher if theres some advantage to having water fall from a height). Sorry if this is kind of stupid or answered or anything, last time I played the game it had 1 level and I never got too much into mechanics farther than floodgates (lots of complicated and redundant floodgates as I recall) so I've never tried a pump or waterwheel. I'd rather not screw up this map (its just short of perfect, major magnemite deposits with limestone being the main component to the mountain overall, access to every civ, its Cold [I'm from Canada so I like the cold], has good hunting and a major river start). Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 15:43, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

:Place a waterwheel in the original river to supply power. You can raise water multiple levels by the methods described [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|here]]. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 20:01, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
::Thanks --[[User:Lowlandlord|Lowlandlord]] 01:57, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

Note that if you bring the water up higher than the moat, it '''will''' (not might. will.) overtop your moat. That's a good way to flood your fortress. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:07, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

An example of the [[Screw_pump#Multiple_Levels|multi-level pump]] including power source, gear assemblies and axles would pretty much make my entire month. Anyone up to the challenge? Pretty please? [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 22:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

Wait, the stacked pumps transmit power upwards ''through themselves''? I didn't realise that - if it's true, then the whole L-shaped tunnels section is unrequired and should probably be removed. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 06:05, 6 November 2008 (EST)

: I've been playing around with this for the last week or so. I completely missed the bit where you need to have a channel underneath the front end of the pump in order for power to transmit (you put the channel under the front end so that the pump blocks the water). You can also draw water from a stairway or into a stairway. And since water pressure will push water up z-levels, you don't actually need to stack your pumps. In other words:

0-lvl all others levels
~www~ ..... www a waterwheel
..|.. ..... | pumps from
.#V#. .###. v the north
.#X#. .#X#. X into up/down stairway
.###. .###. # surrounded by walls
..... .....

That should work for a substantial height. Sadly, my current river is filled with carp, so I won't be able to find out for a while. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 08:49, 6 November 2008 (EST)

:Pumps only push fluids up to their height. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 21:47, 28 November 2008 (EST)

== Front vs rear ==

Do I understand correctly that the 'front' tile (i.e. blocks water flow) is the one where the water comes out of?

Sort of - it actually just 'spawns' water in the tile on the opposite side of that tile from the rear walkable tile, an amount equal to that which is removed a z-level down. --[[User:Sukasa|Sukasa]] 16:19, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

But either way, the output side blocks flow (so if in a narrow channel water cannot backflow through the pump if it is turned off), right? I need to know this for a design. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 16:31, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

: Yes, you are correct. I too was confused by the use of the word "front", as my perception is that the "front" of a pump would be where the water goes in, not out. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 04:14, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

== Alternate vs. other ==

Alternate generally means "in turn" or "in place of" -- not "as an alternative".[http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000296.htm][http://cjrarchives.org/tools/lc/alt.asp] But "alternative" can have its own problems,[http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/alternate.html] which is why I would recommend "other uses" here.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 20:05, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:While I appreciate the need for clarity, I don't think either word particularly changes the scope, knowledge, breadth or content of the page. I suggest that both words work equally well. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 21:31, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

::May I ask for people's permission, then, to change it to 'other'? The function of the page may not be substantially affected by it, but I hate to be unable to correct what I understand to be an error. 'Course, if no one agrees, I'll let it drop.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 11:28, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I support other! [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 14:09, 11 November 2008 (EST)

== Pump + Stairs = Win? ==

Is there any reason why I can't use the stairs as the open space that I'm pumping water from?

Side View Top Views Key
###### ######
#v->__ #v->^# -> or <- : Direction of pump
#^<-v# ###### v : down stairs
#v->^# #^<-v# ^ : up stairs
#^<-v# ###### # : Wall
____^# _ : space

I came up with this right after exiting the game. I'll try it out soon. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 10:02, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:No reason you couldn't, but it'd be rather silly as your dwarves can't walk through the pump. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:58, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

== /fail at pump stacking. ==

I'm trying to construct a pump stack as shown in figure 2, which says 'notice how the front of the pump doesn't need a floor'. If I have open space there, it says it's blocked, 'needs ground or near machine'. I can't build the bottom one to go up. So I tried the top down; same problem. To (badly) diagram it vertically; (_= floor, .= space, %=front of pump over space, @=pump on solid floor)<BR>

.@@_ <- Pumps from left to right onto solid floor
_@%. <- right to left.
.%@_ <- left to right.
wmwm <-water

I can't build any of the pumps if either of their Xs are sitting over an open space. If I build a gear, it won't let me build on top of it. The diagram doesn't seem to show a need for gears, anyway, which is what I was trying to do. Just for laughs, I closed off one of the two holes on the bottom, built the pump and had someone pump it. It quickly (Almost immediately) filled the room with 1/7 water, so I got that right... how do I build the next level up so it connects to the one below, then the one on the surface that will begin the perpetual motion through the attached waterwheel? Trying to give the ungrateful little buggers a waterfall in the statue garden...--[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 01:41, 30 November 2008 (EST)
:Ok, I now got the whole stack built...for some reason, it wouldn't let me when I tried it previously, but now I have it going... but they don't seem to all operate when one is manually pumped to prime. --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 02:12, 30 November 2008 (EST)
:Or when temporarily powered with a windmill. As soon as the gear and axle gets wet, it stops working. With three guys pumping, the waterfall runs for a little bit, half flooding the statue garden. :-p Why are they not connecting to power each other vertically?

You need to put the power-transfer hole under the output end of the pump. The impassable part will prevent backflow. Also, from your diagram it looks like the top pump isn't getting a power hole while the bottom onw is. Thta should be reversed. --[[User:Bilkinson|Bilkinson]] 08:35, 30 November 2008 (EST)

:Aargh. I tore the whole thing down, built floors over everything, then very, very carefully figured out where I needed holes. I removed the floors so that the dark green Xs were over the open spaces above the light green Xs of the pump below, and still nothing. I gave up on the water wheel idea because I didn't have enough vertical space to channel beneath it, so I set up a windmill on a roof on top of built walls above the top pump, very carefully making sure to leave space above the dark green X on the pump... and STILL nothing. -- Hm. Just went to tear down the windmill and it says 'has 20 power, need 30'. (Spends two hours fiddling around adding walls in the wrong place, tearing them down, rebuilding them, convincing a bunch of doofuses to move the mechanism that is there to make a gear out of the way of the axle) Success! Finally got it... was a lack of power. One dwarf is capable of running one pump (until he nearly drowns himself. :p) but apparently they don't run each other in that configuration. That's what was foozling me. And yes, I screwed up on what I diagrammed above...which was part of the problem. The diagram was accurate to what I'd built...(Edited to add what I forgot: Thanks for the help, Bilkinson. :D) --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 05:51, 1 December 2008 (EST)

== Pump Rate ==

Does anyone have a good estimate of the pump rate? It doesn't have to be accurate 7ths of a tile per step, but maybe enough to say "if you're building a waterfall that is x tiles across, and the fall is fed from a reservoir of y tiles, you need z pumps operating to maintain constant water flow, and z pumps operating to keep the upper reservoir full" or something...
--[[User:Yidda|Yidda]] 00:58, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Dragon

2009-03-27T14:11:39Z

Yidda: /* Dragon Fire Cross Z-Plane? */ new section

== They go through magma ==

a dragon walked through 3 tiles of magma channel and destroyed my fortress

:Considering that vanilla dragons are specifically not immune to magma, I find this hard to believe. As such, I'm removing the comment on the page proper until someone can confirm this. kind of thing. Also, sign your comments.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 14:52, 26 February 2009 (EST)

== Tameable? ==

Are Dragons tameable in this version? Supposedly they were in the previous version, but I am not sure. [[User:KiTA|KiTA]] 18:59, 24 November 2007 (EST)

If you see a Hyrda in a fortress, will a Dragon ever appear, or will you forever see Hyrdas going forward? [[User:KiTA|KiTA]] 18:59, 24 November 2007 (EST)

: Yes, they can be tamed once you get the [[dungeon master]], just like before. --[[User:JT|JT]] 18:43, 24 November 2007 (EST)
:: What about multiple types of megabeasts showing up? Or is it "once a hyrda, always a hydra?"
::: I had both a hydra and bronze colossus show up in the same fort [[User:Coelocanth|Coelocanth]]
::: I had a Dragon, and then 3 months later a hydra show up as well. PS: I edited your comment. --[[User:Gotthard|Gotthard]] 11:08, 10 December 2007 (EST)
::::So far I'm 15 years into my fortress and I've had 3 Bronze Collusi, 2 Hydras, 1 Titan and 1 Dragon. I've tossed them all into a pit which I drop sieging armies into for my amusment... [[User:XRsyst|XRsyst]] 22:55, May 15 2008 (PDT)

== Disappointment ==

I was pretty disappointed with my first Dragon. It came during a goblin siege, and proceeded to make a bee line for them. The first goblin bolt grounded it as unconscious, and the second killed it. Highly anticlimactic, it didn't even singe anything. Would be nice if they were somewhat threatening. --Gotthard 13:50, 3 December 2007 (EST)
:This is not a problem with dragons, it's a recuring problem from ranged weapons. Did you ever try to send champions against a horde of bowmen? They'd die just as easily as recruits... --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 14:30, 3 December 2007 (EST)
::I would say it is somewhat a problem with megabeasts in general, though. Someone actually mentioned this to me in another context the other day, but megabeasts really need to have some special mechanics for them if they're going to be very mega.--[[User:Qalnor|Qalnor]] 15:01, 3 December 2007 (EST)
::If I read the raws correctly, it just looks like his only attack is a bite (with a good damage of 1-6). Shouldn't he have a tail swipe, or a wing buffet to complement his fire breathing ability? Perhaps an increased resistance to ranged attacks, although armor doesn't seem to do much to piercing damage. Very irritating. --Gotthard 17:21, 3 December 2007 (EST)
:I just saw something similar -- my hunter was out hunting, and came upon a dragon that had just invaded. He seems to have dodged the fire the dragon breathed at him, then knocked it unconscious with a bolt to the heart. The hunter must have agreed that this was anticlimactic, as he then shrugged and went to kill a mountain goat. [[User:Dolohov|Dolohov]] 14:35, 24 August 2008 (EDT)
A dragon raided my village, burning everything above ground. The flames consumed everything. Including the dragon itself. --[[User:Sebbekai|Sebbekai]] 16:31, 5 April 2008 (EDT)
:err... it burned itself to death? Are you sure? Because if you look at the object data for dragons in this article, it has the [FIREIMMUNE_SUPER] tag... --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 22:17, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
::[FIREIMMUNE_SUPER] grants immunity to dragonbreath and the belief that the creature is immune to fire. It does not actually grant an immunity to fire. [FIREIMMUNE] does that. The dragon breathed, ignited grass, and burned upon the fire it started. Sometimes they purposefully hop into lava and become dragon fritters. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 23:43, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
:Yup, my dragon just destroyed itself in it's own firey fury too, unless my recruit kicked it in it's softspot... And the wooden building nearby just become 'warm'. So there we have it.--[[User:Khimaera UK|JK]] 18:17, 7 January 2009 (EST)

== Tiny? ==

Dragons can enter dwarf homes? That's a bit odd. A five story tall dragon probably should be a bit taller then the four-or-so foot dwarves. I'd imagine elves have a hard enough time as is. [[User:Minalkra|Minalkra]] 01:20, 2 May 2008 (EDT)
:Uhh.. This is Dwarf Fortress not the North American Scale and Size Convention (NASSC) ...Duh [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 14:03, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

== Burning items ... ==

IMO the easiest way of dealing with fire breath is: Options -> Only military allowed outside.

Setting this ON as soon as the dragon arrives will result in dwarves not doing much (or more precisely cancelling any task that paths them outside), but should also prevent dwarves from picking up burning items (providing you kill the dragon while it's still outside the fortress.)

== They're [FANCIFUL]...? ==

I just noticed the object data for dragons has the [FANCIFUL] tag. I had been led to believe by [[Fanciful|this article]] that this tag was for creatures that were just mythical and didn't actually spawn in the game. But dragons certainly do spawn in the game. Is that article wrong or what? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 22:26, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

:I think this makes dragons not spawn normally. Instead, they spawn when it's time for a dragon attack. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:32, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

::Ah, I just looked at the other megabeasts, and they have the tag too, along with the demons. So that's probably why. The [FANCIFUL] article is still somewhat wrong or misleading though. --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 22:36, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
:::I have been led to believe that it is for creatures that everyone knows about, no matter what. Everyone has heard of a dragon, even if only about 50 people have seen one. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 20:01, 25 February 2009 (EST)

== After being tamed ==

Will the defend themselves if they get attacked? I would love burning the bloody goblins who go after my dwarf families. It seems they won't move much if you let them out of their cages. It would also be fun to have a match with 2 mega beasts against each other.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 13:37, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

== Spawning Injured? ==

I was just assaulted by a Dragon. With no legs. (Well... it was missing 2 legs... completely cut off)

It constantly was unconscious (although it did wake up every 5 minutes or so and take a couple steps forward)
I haven't checked up on the legends for that dragon yet, but I can assume it lost those body parts in a battle sometime back. Very... intriguing. Should a note be made about mega-beasts spawning as such?

:This does sound rather interesting. When did Toady Introduce the fact that Megabeasts exist in the world and can be encountered on numerous occasions, given that you haven't killed them yet? And, Can you find mega-beasts in Adventure mode? [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 08:17, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

:As I recall, Megabeasts have their own lives and histories, generated when the map is generated. There is a rotating quote on the front page from Toady about a Titan that had its leg gnawed off by a dwarf and then laid waste to the land for 1000 years or so. So, no, your Dragon didn't start injured. Someone else injured it for you. --[[User:Mirthmanor|Mirthmanor]] 17:09, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

::Hell, even the semi-megabeasts that mayors want you to fight spawn injured. In my most recent adventure, besides successfully killing almost an entire town (I had recruited like 30 marksdwarves. Heh.) I had at least 5 occassions where a semi would constantly fall unconcious from the fact it had missling legs, lungs, arms, etc. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 22:16, 18 November 2008 (EST)

:::I've even seen this happen with civ leaders, I recently had a goblin elite marksman with his whole left leg gone siege me, he of course never advanced because he was always unconscious, but somehow he escaped two times. On the third time I finally got the sucker because he came in right beside my castle. -[[User:Jebraltix|Jebraltix]] 16:46, 18 January 2009 (CST)

== Dragon Footprints ==

From SomethingAwful forums thread #2917631<blockquote>

'''Krinkle posted:'''

holy poo poo! Just as I was getting ready to go home I get a message.

''Berayi Nelarthesa, Dragon, has arrived.''

I saved and took the save with me. Holy crap. I sounded the alarm that nobody but nobody was allowed outside and let loose and he leaves sand where he walks HE LEAVES SAND WHERE HE WALKS.
</blockquote>
Reposted for flavour by --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 07:02, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

:It seems to me that dwarves walking on a layer of sand covered by grass leave sand where they walk, too. This way the stange phenomenon posted above might be explained. --[[User:Doub|Doub]]
::Elves have grasstrample 0. Dwarves have default grasstrample. Giant desert scorpions have grasstrample 10. Alligators have grasstrample 20. Dragons have grasstrample 50. A mess of dwarves milling about your entrance will wear away all the grass eventually. A dragon does it with every step. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 23:43, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

== Trapped! ==

I have built a few hundred cage traps around my fortress. The second a Dragon appeared, I ordered (o) my dwarves to stay indoors and just waited. AWESOME! Caught him in a dumb cage trap. Shucks the kobalts don't get caught in them... (so I put a few stone traps around the exits/entrances).

== Bugged Dragon? ==

I had 3 stonefall traps lining the entrance to my fortress (this was very early in the game). A dragon showed up when I was still getting settled (not even a season into the game) and cheerfully walked right past my traps without setting them off, then torched all of my dwarves. Why didn't it set off the traps? Was it flying over them?--[[User:Aegeus|Aegeus]] 20:17, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

It probably set off the stonefall traps. (you can check, there should be stone on the ground). Dragons just don't get hurt much by them (I had a skeletal dragon run through a line of 8 and come out with some badly bruised bones and a broken (for skeletal, that means totally lost) left claw. [[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 17:02, 9 November 2008 (EST)
:Depends on random factors, I suppose. When a dragon went after the chained horse surrounded by stonefall traps I keep outside, it was already nauseous by the time my military arrived to finish the job. It can't have gone through more than three traps, more likely two. I don't think I'll d trapfields again, they're just too appallingly effective. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 09:50, 14 January 2009 (EST)

::Given how early this dragon showed up, did you check to see if you had a cave on the map? The dragon probably lives there and came out to investigate who was disturbing his land. There at least used to be a bug that native creatures (start on the map) know where all the traps are - not sure if its still true. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 19:22, 18 January 2009 (EST)

== Dragonfire too weak? ==

Ok, I got a skeletal dragon invading my fortress. He sends dragonfire out at a regular dwarf, and it hits him at the very edge for no damage (the land is scorched, no fire). Dwarf flees, jumps in the river, dies to carp (which rather hilariously start attacking the skeletal dragon, who proceeds to claw one to death until another dwarf walks by. No big deal, the fire barely hit the peasant so it makes sense it didn't hurt him.

I send in a military squad to fight the dragon. My champion (the one *without* my legendary shield, his was -quality- iron) runs to the dragon, gets hit POINT BLANK by dragonfire (which once again kills the plants without setting them on fire) and doesn't even get hurt. Repeat when two swordsdwarves, one who is only a low level shield user, get hit at about a third of the total range. I killed the dragon, but honestly, he didn't light a thing on fire and couldn't hurt the dwarves. It would AT LEAST make sense if the dwarves got light injuries from the fact they are standing on freshly scorched land while it's in the process of being scorched again.[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 17:08, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Still Relevant? ==
Those parts about training not working on murderous dragons, and especially about fire being inexplicably deadly, sound vaguely 2D. Can anyone confirm the training issue still exists? --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 09:50, 14 January 2009 (EST)
:The training quirk is a problem with all tamed animals, not just dragons. [[Fire]] is still outrageously deadly because the dwarven AI doesn't correctly understand being on fire, or why they should not touch things that are on fire. So yes, this is all still relevant. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 11:05, 14 January 2009 (EST)
The section could still do with a rewrite, though, considering that all dragons are named and not just those that have killed dwarves --[[User:Pushy|Pushy]] 10:09, 12 February 2009 (EST)

== Dragonfire and fortifications ==
Question: Will a breath dragonfire go through fortifications? Will it be blocked, or will the dragon be able to 'shoot' through it like marksmen? --[[User:Kami|Kami]] 05:03, 10 February 2009 (EST)

== Dungeon Master ==
I noticed when I tamed a captured dragon that the actual task of taming was performed by a normal animal trainer and not by my Dungeon Master. My Dungeon Master was alive and well at the time but is it possible that megabeast taming doesn't require one after all? --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 10:46, 12 February 2009 (EST)
:The DM must be at least on the map. That is the only requirement.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 20:05, 25 February 2009 (EST)

== Dragon Fire Cross Z-Plane? ==

Anyone know if Dragons can shoot fire at an angle up or down?
--[[User:Yidda|Yidda]] 14:11, 27 March 2009 (UTC)