Dwarf Fortress Wiki - User contributions [en]

40d Talk:Modding guide

2009-05-06T03:39:15Z

Zipdog: /* Healing Mods? */

[re: Creating separate .txt file for new creatures]

This didn't work well for me. I added a new playable civ (Klackon) to the entity_default file like this page said, and the species (Klackon) in that new civ was located in a new .txt file. Dwarves still showed up, but never my civ. I kept reducing the number of allowable dwarf civs thinking they were just competing for selection, culminating in getting rid of them entirely, ending up in developing a world that had humans and elves only! Oops.

Finally, I added my Klackon creature to the end of the creature_standard file instead of only having them in the creature_klackon.txt file.. Voila! I now have dwarf civs and klackon civs in the same world and actually get a choice between them when I make a fort.

It's very possible that I just messed up something basic when I made the new .txt file to contain the creature definition, but I could still point out that making a new, separate .txt file certainly didn't make things simpler for me, so it's not such great advice for budding modders.

Everything else worked fine though, so thanks, still!
:Have to be sure to add the text files name ( "creature_klackon" without the parenthesis, or brackets) and the line [OBJECT:CREATURE] to tell the game its a creature file. --[[User:Darkone|Darkone]] 18:17, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

== Bad info? ==

So someone added a big notice at the top that suggests there's a fair bit of out-of-date text.. but no mention of what that may be, no links to forum posts, et cetera. Someone want to clue me in on just what, exactly, is no longer relevant? --[[User:Nunix|Nunix]] 15:14, 28 February 2008 (EST)
:I think it's safe to take off the version warning but the examples need to be tested. It would probably be easier to manage if this article was split into smaller, in depth, modding guides. --[[User:Hex Decimal|Hex Decimal]] 23:07, 28 February 2008 (EST)

I would love to see a little more descriptive way of handling the raw files as opposed to simply a slew of examples on things to mod. Perhaps I'm just not spending enough time "tinkering", but it seems that the current article is set up rather poorly. Is that just me? --[[User:Borgin|Borgin]]
[EDIT]
I didn't realize there were complete lists of tokens. Silly me; that sure makes things easier. 1:37, 15 May 2008 (CST)

== Arachnid Tutorial ==

<s>Minor nitpick here, but it apears he forgot to add :5FINGERS:</s> tested it and it works, added it to wiki. as one of its body tags to go with its hands. Also, as a nice additional tutorial, maybe add in this little bit of code to show people how to add joints? --[[User:Darkone|Darkone]] 18:39, 2 May 2008 (EDT)<pre>
[BODY:ARACHNID_JOINTS]
[BP:RUA_J:right shoulder][CON:RUA][JOINT][SMALL][INTERNAL][RIGHT]
[BP:LUA_J:left shoulder][CON:LUA][JOINT][SMALL][INTERNAL][LEFT]
[BP:RLA_J:right elbow][CON:RLA][JOINT][SMALL][INTERNAL][RIGHT]
[BP:LLA_J:left elbow][CON:LLA][JOINT][SMALL][INTERNAL][LEFT]
[BP:RH_J:right wrist][CON:RH][JOINT][SMALL][INTERNAL][RIGHT]
[BP:LH_J:left wrist][CON:LH][JOINT][SMALL][INTERNAL][LEFT]
</pre>

== Dwarven Flight ==

If I add the line [FLIER] to my dwarven civilisation would anything interesting happen? --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 05:30, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

:No, dwarves will just spam "Task cancelled: dangerous terrain". They will have problems doing anything. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:09, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

::Flight pathing is even broken for invaders. What a shame! Swimmers can have problems too, though not ''that'' bad. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 16:40, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== Fireproof Trees? ==

Is there any means to create a wood material (and corrosponding trees to harvest for it) which will not burn, or at least won't ignite from contact with magma? --[[User:Rakankou|Rakankou]] 00:47, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
:I am no expert but, what if you added the [FIRE_IMMUNE] tag to trees. Do not know if that will work, or if thats even the right tag. [[User:Magikarcher|Magikarcher]] 02:12, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::[FIREIMMUNE] doesn't seem to work for making a fire safe wood. I think it's a creature token, anyway, so it makes sense that it wouldn't work for materials. --[[User:Rakankou|Rakankou]] 12:27, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
::: It's a creature token so it won't work. However, taken from Adamantine's entry (it is magma-proof):
::::[SPEC_HEAT:7500]
::::[MELTING_POINT:25000]
::::[BOILING_POINT:50000]
:::Hopefully that helps. --[[User:Borgin|Borgin]] 20:11, 12 August 2008
IGNITE_POINT is a matgloss token. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 17:01, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== .txt ==

My word processer won't let me save .txts. Does that matter?
:Yes. A word processor program (like anything from Microsoft Office) will generate all sorts of gibberish in addition to your text. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 11:22, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

== Adventure mode? ==

Do I have to add the tag adventure tier to the dark elves to make them playable in adventure mode? [[User:Yaddy1|Yaddy1]] 16:13, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

Yup. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 16:40, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== Modded creatures not showing? ==

I tried making my own races for a test. Spartans, copied from entity_info of dwarves and creature_Standard info from Humans and small bit from Titans.
Persians, Like goblins but weaker and stupider.
after running 4 different regions with different settings, only Goblins, Dwarves and Humans showed up. What am I doing wrong? There is not a single trace of them even existing at the legends screen.
I really want to kick persians with spartans instead of biting goblins with dwarves.
[[User:Skibiliano|Skibiliano]] 14:22, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

:The problem probably lies in the titan tags. In any case, backing up the original raws and just editing them would be easier to test. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 16:40, 21 November 2008 (EST)

:Did you get the filenames and [OBJECT] tags at the top? Those are easy to miss. I'd say make them copies of dwarves and goblins, respectively - once worlds generate with them, tweak them to be like you want. Also, you can temporarily move entity_default.txt to another dir to make it easier to debug. [[User:Darekun|Darekun]] 11:39, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

== "Random" civ selection with more than one playable civ ==

In the main text on this page (and I swear in a fair few other places, but I can't find them for some reason), it notes that if you have the [CIV_CONTROLLABLE] token on more than one entity it will randomly select from the playable civs when you embark. Well, yes, it's random in the sense that it initially selects a random group for your fortress to be an offshoot of, but you can easily select the desired species of your fort inhabitants by manually picking the appropriate group from the embark screen, either using legends mode to work out which group is which species, or by checking the "nearby civilizations" section and seeing which species is at the top (it seems that your species will always be at the top of the list). I'm going to adjust the "random selection" note to say you can choose your civilization, but I'm not sure if a whole mini-tutorial on picking your civ really belongs in the modding guide, or whether it should go somewhere else. Comments? --[[User:Quil|Quil]] 12:10, 16 November 2008 (EST)

:Just the one line about how the race you'll be playing will be at the top of the 'neighbours' list wouldn't be that bad, wouldn't it? No tutorial required, anyway. Maybe we could divide the topic later, but I think this is an relevant as anything, considering how much depth can be added to the game this way. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 18:55, 16 November 2008 (EST)

::Okay, added a paragraph on picking your species. I think I covered all the pertinent points fairly succinctly. As a random aside, while the species I added is quite hardy and long-lived, so they've never been wiped out, I'm not sure if the game will care if some of the playable species die out. While in the vanilla game with the default settings it's impossible to kill off the dwarves, since the game will reject it due to having no playable civs, with additional playable races it may just be possible to have your extra species (or the dwarves) all die out and be unplayable in an otherwise acceptable map.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 09:44, 17 November 2008 (EST)

:::I confirmed that. My aquatic playable civ didn't appear on a map without their starting biome, and my single gender race was wiped out by humans on the next go, leaving only the other playable each time. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 16:40, 21 November 2008 (EST)

== Rock Crystals ==

How would I go about modding the game to either allow me to import rough rock crystals or allowing me to make crystal glass from cut rock crystals?--[[User:Mjo625|Mjo625]] 07:37, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Or add a reaction that will change rock crystals into rough rock crystals. I added

[REACTION:ROUGH ROCK CRYSTAL]
[NAME:Melt Rock Crystal]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:1:SMALLGEM:NO_SUBTYPE:STONE:ROCK_CRYSTAL]
[PRODUCT:100:1:ROUGH:NO_SUBTYPE:ROCK_CRYSTAL]
[FUEL]

to reaction_standard but it doesn't seem to be working. The dwarf takes the rough crystal and charcoal to the smelter, works for a while but doesn't produce anything.--[[User:Mjo625|Mjo625]] 10:22, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

:If they take the reagents and don't produce a product, that means there's an error in the [PRODUCT] tag. In this case, you're missing a term - ROCK_CRYSTAL is a matgloss with no material token. I'd guess the correct version would be [PRODUCT:100:1:ROUGH:NO_SUBTYPE:STONE:ROCK_CRYSTAL].
:It looks like imports are rather hardcoded, so no importing it; you could add a creature that drops it via [ITEMCORPSE], but smelter reactions are probably the way to go. [[User:Darekun|Darekun]] 11:35, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

== adding a programming emphasis ==

Hi, I am interested in modding and am a programmer by profession.
I think it would be nice to approach the modding guide the same way as any programming language guide.
It may be that not a lot of people who are programmers are coming to do Modding in DF but that doesn't mean they couldn't benefit greatly from some basic programming theory and knowledge. In fact, it was modding old-school rogue games for BBS systems that actually introduced me to real programming...
I hope any edits I make meet with your approval.
I also hope maybe we can start a plain-speech syntax guide for the mod files and a glossary of terms for all the hard-coded tags.
I must admit that at this stage, going through the default files, I am a bit overwhelmed with the variety and have trouble knowing which tags/flags/tokens correspond to a hard-coded concept and which ones are simply built from other tags.
The entity tags also have tokens whose importance I cannot yet determine.
At these times, I wish I just had a simple glossary to refer to!
So my request is that the wiki could have some sort of glossary/index for all these terms similar to the way creatures are organized.
For an example of a code dictionary, please see: http://www.adobe.com/support/flash/action_scripts/actionscript_dictionary/
(I know the terms are a bit esoteric for non-programmers, like bitwise operators appear at the top of the list... but the concept is simple--and df modding has no operators, only keywords)

If there's anything over at bay12 like this, please let me know. I looked but couldn't find anything. Consensus seemed to be that it belonged on this wiki.

Well, I will try to do this myself unless there are serious objections, but since I have a full-time job, I would love it if others were to participate!
--[[User:Jpwrunyan|Jpwrunyan]] 02:38, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== Healing Mods? ==

Is it possible to mod body parts that do not normally heal (like the spine) to heal like any other broken limb? If so, that should probably be here.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 03:39, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Modding guide

2009-05-06T03:38:56Z

Zipdog: /* Healing Mods? */ new section

40d Talk:Fishing

2009-05-04T22:52:10Z

Zipdog: /* Female Fisherdwarves? */

Most of this was taken from the old wiki as it all seems applicable here. Whether or not fish can be depleted or not I do not know - at this point it seems that the turtle supply is endless.--[[User:Decanter|Decanter]] 05:03, 7 November 2007 (EST)

:I had a 'there is nothing to catch in the swamps' message a few times. so it is possible to deplete all the fish in a pond, but haven't been able to get rid of all the fish. --[[User:Soyweiser|Soyweiser]] 06:40, 7 November 2007 (EST)

Does anyone with more experience than I know what make (or made) Carp so dangerous? In 0.27.169.33a and previous, swimming creatures would gain incredible attributes due to gaining experience by swimming all the time, which would obviously make combat more dangerous. In the latest version (0.27.169.33b) though, innate swimmers no longer gain swim skill, which sounds like it would make fish rather less dangerous.--[[User:Kmgraba|Kmgraba]] 22:37, 18 November 2007 (EST)

:Carps aren't really dangerous versus a soldier who can swim (my first 125 kills were carps,longnose gars and lampreys in adventure mode), but they can easily drag an unarmed untrained fisherdwarf into water and drown him. [[User:Wagawaga|Wagawaga]] 20:23, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

== Useful stuff to add to article. ==

Are brooks fishable? Streams? Are swamps depleted permanently or temporarily? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 09:24, 13 November 2007 (EST)
:Brooks are fishable and can be depleted. Swamps, brooks and artificial underground lakes are depleted temporarily. When any biome becomes depleted - a fishing zone anywhere near the water in that biome shows that there are 0 (zero) squares suitable for fishing.
:Also of notice is that the swamp will only repopulate with turtles/whatever was there in the first time even if you connect it to brook with other fish by a channel.
:My question now is whether the amount to be fished out before depletion is correlated with the amount of tiles with water or does every biome have a fixed amount preset on map generation?--[[User:Another|Another]] 11:07, 13 November 2007 (EST)

::I'd have to say it's at least partially connected to the amount of water; I have 3 different fortresses right now and the one with the fewest lakes definitely gets depleted more commonly, and faster, than the rest of the maps. I haven't ruled out the confound of the biome itself; perhaps there is a larger amount on biomes like swamp, and they also have more water. Anyone know if making lakes larger, or making your own artificial lakes helps with depletion? -Gotthard

== Frozen rivers ==

Can you fish a frozen river / lake?[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 00:21, 6 January 2008 (EST)

== Fishing in caves ==

Is it a problem to fish in a underwater lake filled with snakemen and lizardmen?
I'd guess they could be fished and kill off the dwarf...
I kinda wanta catch em like pokemon.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 15:33, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

:It is okay as long as you have some soldiers or traps near the fisherdwarf... at least if you care about his life. [[User:Wagawaga|Wagawaga]] 20:20, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

== Fishing is the labor used to catch fish. ==

"Fishing is the labor used to catch fish."
This is somewhat inaccurate. When I asked on [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25736.0 the forum], I was told that what you catch is unrelated to the actual number of fish in the river. The river can apparently be depleted when you can see fish vermin in it. Perhaps this should be changed to saying that fishing creates raw fish. [[User:DanielLC|DanielLC]] 14:53, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

== Fishing Indoors ==
How large of an artificial lake or murky pool must you make in order for it to be a functional fishing spot? Can you fish through grates, bars or hatches? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 17:50, 31 January 2009 (EST)

:I had a fisherdwarf fishing in a 1-square inside pool so i suppose that as long as you can designate an area as "fishing area" you can take fish out of it. You can fish through hatches, i can confirm this, i dont know through bars and grates. [[User:Wagawaga|Wagawaga]] 20:20, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

== Research on fish depletion, use of bars (and presumably grates), biome impact ==

Take a look at http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=32555.msg475330#msg475330. I've posted the results of some fishing tests there.

Important conclusions:

-Fish are sourced from biomes.

-Biome fish stocks appear to reset every season.

-Rivers/streams/brooks have their own "biome fish counter" independent of the actual biome the river's passing through.

-Otherwise, the game looks at where the water tile you're fishing from is, and then figures out which biome it's associated with. The nature of surrounding tiles (i.e. is this a pond, or a channel off a river, or a bucket-filled pit) is immaterial.

-The creation of fish at the completion of a successful fishing attempt is abstracted. The presence or absence of actual fish vermin (or actual fish creatures, e.g. carp) is immaterial.

-Dwarves can fish through horizontal bars, but building them is finicky. Read the full post linked above. [[User:Kethas|Kethas]] 03:24, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

== Female Fisherdwarves? ==
How do they fish without a beard? [[User:DeadlyLintRoller|DeadlyLintRoller]] 01:23, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

:Though no scientific research can confirm this, i suppose that dwarves do not have the same dna as humans, and women also produce the hormone which causes beard to grow. I am not a pogonologist anyway and I could be wrong. [[User:Wagawaga|Wagawaga]] 20:28, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

::Yes, they have beards too. --[[User:Smartmo|Smartmo]] 22:39, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

:::This is why human diplomats are trained NEVER to ask a dwarf where all the female dwarves are. They are ALL AROUND YOU. The bearded wonder who escorted you in? Female. The heavily-bearded noble you met to discuss imports with? Also female. The hammerer? Yup. Male and female dwarves look and sound the same to most humans, and the problem is compounded by the fact that most dwarven names are applied to both males and females.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 22:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Stockpile

2009-04-27T21:26:09Z

Zipdog: /* Custom Catastrophe */

=== Stockpile categories ===
'''[[Ore]]''' 
Ore will be brought here. This is one of the simpler stockpiles.
: Is it just me, or is this incorrect? I don't see an option in the new version for ore piles. I'm at work and so cannot double-check at this time, but I'll check when I get home and if I confirm it then, I'll remove Ore from the Stockpile categories.

You're correct. Ore is now included in the stone stockpile and there is no mining stockpile. I've made the change. -Valdemar

Should this page be retitled "Stockpile" to keep in line with the title style rules? --[[User:BahamutZERO|BahamutZERO]] 17:44, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
:Done. --[[User:Peristarkawan|Peristarkawan]] 18:15, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

==Custom Catastrophe==

According to the forums, and my own experiences, the "Custom" category doesn't actually work. Removing the unused stockpile and replacing it with one of the standard type, then editing it to your specifications will work. Also types can be safely changed after they're assigned. (I turned a wood stockpile to a bed stockpile with successful stocking).
I came across this after a great deal of kitchen rebuilding because my cook wouldn't fill the stockpiles. If someone more familiar with the wiki, and the game, could confirm this and edit the page it would be appreciated, it's something that should be out there. [[User:Scribbler|Scribbler]] 14:24, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

: I have not had this problem, although I do need to be careful making sure that I actually adjust the cus((k|t}}om stockpile settings before placing the stockpile, and then being sure that I'm still placing a custom stockpile. This menu is one of the least-intuitive to my mind, but the settings work, AFAIK. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:48, 4 November 2008 (EST)

:Custom stockpiles work perfectly for me, and have for a logn time. Maybe the original poster overlooked the "prepared food" option under the food submenu?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:53, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:::probably as simple as not allowing the 'material'/'core quality'/'total quality' options to be on. maybe even the 'metals' one if you want a metal-stuff stockpile. i've had lots of trouble with it, too x] usually done by {{k|b}}locking all, and just selecting the item on it's own. everything has to be made out of something! --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 13:01, 7 March 2009 (EST)

::::For me, dwarves ignore custom stockpiles as long as there is an unfilled existing stockpile that accepts whatever the custom stockpile accepts. Once that stockpile fills (and the dwarves are forced to begin using the custom pile) the custom stockpile is used normally--even if the other stockpile empties.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 21:26, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

== Bins ==

how do I make my bins get to the "right" stockpiles (ie i want to put stone in bins to compact it but so far my bin is sitting in a "finished goods" stockpile)[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:40, 4 January 2008 (EST)

:Raw objects generally can't be put in bins, only "processed" goods. For instance, [[block]]s can be put in bins, but not raw stone. The best way to get a compact stone store is to create a dump, though I haven't fiddled with that technique yet.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:51, 4 January 2008 (EST)
::Stone designated for dumping (individually which is a pain no matter how you do it) can all end up on a single dump activity zone and then reclaimed, this is much more space-efficient than stone stockpiles.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 01:42, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
:::You can now mass designate items for dumping by selecting large amounts of stone, or any other object, really. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 15:46, 3 January 2009 (EST)
:Is my problem similar to what you mean, GarrieIrons? I have a clothing/leather stockpile that is filled to the brink with individual items. I want to put them in bins so that I can have more room (as there are more items to be stored) but whenever I find a way to make room in the stockpile, more non-bin items are added until it is full again. On top of that, there is already one bin on the stockpile and no one will store anything in it. [[User:FJH|FJH]] 21:30, 17 February 2009 (EST)
::i had the same problem, and was just about to post it, then found an answer! :D set your stockpile to accept bins/barrels/whatever (mine's a stone block stockpile way outside of my fort, from which the peasants were carting one block at a time into a free bin. now it's a bin and block stockpile (Note: DO NOT TURN OFF 'core quality', 'total quality' etc. if you do, NO bins/barrels will be accepted)), press {{k|q}}uery(?) over the stockpile, then press {{k|t}}ake from a pile. go to your finished goods stockpile (the one containing the bins/barrels), and hit {{k|Enter}}. your peasants will immediately start running over to it with bins/barrels. sorted :D note: they'll take all your bins over! remember to {{k|q}} over your new stockpile, and set the maximum amount of bins/barrels with {{k|c}} (more) and {{k|v}} (fewer). mine's set to 10. thinking about it... you may just be able to set your finished goods stockpile max to 10 bins/barrels, and any others will be taken somewhere else (probably not a good thing; they may get left clogging up your workspace) --[[User:DJ Devil|DJ Devil]] 12:45, 7 March 2009 (EST)

== Usable/Unusable Weapons/Armour? ==

Anyone knows exactly what this does? It seems that stockpiles set to "unusable" will only collect things that dwarfs can't possibly ever use, not even in Adventure mode (ex: big human two-handed weapons such as a halberd), but while technically things like whips and scimitars aren't unusable, dwarfs in Fortress mode will never equip them - no such option in the Military screen. Or will they use, for example, a scimitar if set to use swords? Will that use the Swordsdwarf skill? IMO it would be more useful if it included any weapon not in the Military screen. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 12:44, 12 January 2008 (EST)
:I use this when I kill kobolds etc - all the weapons my dwarf collect of '''hostile''' creatures then go into the same bin. I can't use them, but I ''can'' drag one bin all at once to the visiting [[trading|merchant]] - ker-ching! They sell pretty well.
:But I agree, it should be that any weapon dwarves cannot use should end up there.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 02:53, 14 February 2008 (EST)

== my dear cook ==

preparing food stacks larger than *ten* - on what depends the number? my cook sometimes does it, sometimes not, both with lavish and simple meals. Is it from the stack size? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 02:36, 14 February 2008 (EST)

:The biggest question here though is - what is the appropriate setting for a stockpile for cooked food?
:It seems to be, "forbid" everything but make sure "Prepared food" is turned on. But "prepared food" seems to be turned on as the default, and it allows even unprocessed fish etc to be placed in the stockpile. So this doesn't make much sense to me.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 05:40, 27 February 2008 (EST)
: well, you could use a refuse pile with only prepared meals enabled...--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 14:39, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:: to be more precise, a custom stockpile (t) with only prepared meals enabled under 'Refuse' - works and is not even called a refuse pile. Havent seen someone eat from it yet though.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:03, 3 March 2008 (EST)
:I think in general, the number of prepared meals in the stack is based on the number of ingredients used. The biggest stacks of ingredients are generally quarry bush leaves, but depending on the animal, stacks of tallow can equal or exceed them. I have mini-stockpiles for quarry bush leaves and tallow adjacent to my kitchen, and if a stack smaller than 20 gets made, it generally means those mini-stockpiles are out. [[User:Darekun|Darekun]] 22:03, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

== Stone Stockpiles ==

Currently my dwarves are not hauling ores of iron, zinc and lignite which I have disabled for my other stone stockpiles. I have over 8000 stone in somewhat organized stockpiles since I thought my wealth would generate more slowly with everyone hauling them all around the map with the more common stones, siltstone and phyllite, creating common crafts, statues, hatch covers, flood gates, mechanisms and use in stone fall traps. I now have over 333 stockpiles. I went and mined all ores used in creating fuels and metals and it seems that the storage space I've made might not be that big enough. What's the problem?--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 21:35, 9 July 2008 (EDT)
:Just got it, I had ignore minerals. Sorry.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 21:35, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

== Take From Stockpile ==

While we're adding information to this section, Can someone who has used this successfully give a more concrete example? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:22, 6 November 2008 (EST)

:Well, I gave it a shot --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:27, 7 March 2009 (EST)

== Clear stone to replace with stockpile? ==

Is there any way to clear the stone out of the way so I can build a stock pile for something that ISN'T stone? Got a nice big room full of workshops and nowhere to put anything because 90% of the spots are filled with stones.

(Is it just me, or do the dwarves sometimes seem ''really'' dumb? I set up a paved road of about 10 sections from the top exit of the fortress to the edge of the map for caravans. I set up stone stockpiles next to every other segment of the road both so they didn't have to walk so far to do it and to clear some of the stone out... They started at the farthest away road segment, and will go all the way to the other end of the road, down three flights of stairs, all the way to an otherwise empty room to pick up a piece of stone to go all the way back to use it on the road, rather than use the nearby and completely full stockpiles. ) --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 05:24, 27 November 2008 (EST)

:[[Stone management]]. As for the road, when constructing a building, it shows you how distant the materials are, but only "as the crow flies". If the nearest stone is one z-level away and you unwittingly select it, they'll walk however long a path they have to actually fetch it. Same thing for workshops -- they'll go huge distances to get the item that's just above their heads.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 12:01, 27 November 2008 (EST)

::That may explain it... I set up the stockpiles after designating the road, so (after everyone dropped everything to fill the stockpiles), they went to the stone that I apparently designated when I set up the road. Would be nice if you could just tell them 'take THIS item and put it THERE'... --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 21:16, 28 November 2008 (EST)

:::[[Dump]]ing more or less allows you to do that.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:59, 28 November 2008 (EST)

::::Seems less than more. :-p I've got a leftover iron knife sitting on the remains of a two dimensional goblin in a stonefall trap... I set everything to dump, and they took everything but his body and his knife. (I sold all his crap to the elves that showed up shortly thereafter). I ended up going with the catapult version...had a peasant build three catapult parts then set it up and toss rocks across the room into a channel... he's now a siege engineer. So I had him build another and started another peasant on it, and they're happily banging away at the wall... --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 23:01, 29 November 2008 (EST)

==Armor bin capacity==

I have a bin in my armor stockpile that has 17 items in it, so unless something really weird is going on the statement in the article that bins in armor stockpiles can consolidate up to 10 items is probably false. Anyone know what the truth is? [[User:MJSS|MJSS]] 20:51, 16 December 2008 (EST)

:It depends on the size of the items. An armor bin can hold a lot more boots and gauntlets than it can suits of platemail. It was speculated that 10 is the minimum number of goods a bin can hold, although I think platemail bins don't even hold that many. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 21:02, 16 December 2008 (EST)

::I've long been curious about what the formula is for bin capacity. A question for the future, I guess.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 15:29, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:Crafts fit in bins in especially large numbers; perhaps based on the "material size" of the item, with some default applying to things with no explicit material size? There's also the matter of bags of seeds. [[User:Darekun|Darekun]] 23:52, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

== Core Quality vs Total Quality ==

What's the difference? Does core quality refer to the quality of the item while total quality somehow takes into account its decorations? If I have a standard quality sword menacing with masterwork spikes of bone, what total quality is that? [[User:Schwern|Schwern]] 17:49, 31 December 2008 (EST)

:Yes, and I have no idea. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:04, 31 December 2008 (EST)
:The formula is unknown. We wish we knew.--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 15:07, 7 March 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Food

2009-04-27T21:15:27Z

Zipdog: /* Hunger bug */

== Rate of consumption ==

Does anyone know the rate at which dwarf eats food? --[[User:Okita|Okita]] 01:18, 6 June 2008 (EST)

:Someone calculated it way back in the 2D days. IIRC, they came up with 6 food and 18 drink per dwarf per year, but I don't think that was very accurate. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:49, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

I just ran some tests (Dwarven Science at its best). My 7 starting dwarves consistantly ate 2 food and drank 4 drinks per season. I tested with all 7 dwarves mining for the whole year, reloaded and then had them idle for the whole year. It was the same both times. The only variation i got was sometime by the end of the season one of them hadent gotten around to eating or drinking but over the whole year it averaged out.
--[[User:Abregado|Abregado]] 08:03, 22 January 2009 (EST)
:2 food and 4 drinks each? This probably ought to be put on the main "Food" page. --[[User:Timmeh|Timmeh]] 02:25, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

== Starvation ==

Once my [[butcher]] starts ''hunting for small creatures'' - how do I get him to actually slaughter an animal so everyone can eat?
Or do I need to make someone else a butcher so my butcher can have a snack?

Why does this shite always happen when the merchant turns up?? ;) [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:36, 13 February 2008 (EST)

::This is beacause your dwarves are very hungry and start looking for vermin to eat. [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 02:48, 23 June 2008 (EDT)

== Hunger bug ==

First of all, i'm a new user, so if this needs putting somewhere else or whatever, just send me an e-mail or something. Anyway, I have a bug that keeps crippling my fortress. Sometime halfway through the year, my dwarfs (dwarves? i dunno :S) stop eating. completely. they then get hungry, tantrums kick off, and chaos ensues. any tips?
--[[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 05:34, 1 March 2008 (EST)

::Do you have food? If so, what KIND of food? They can't eat raw dead things, and they can't even eat butchered dead things. They also can't eat most kinds of uncooked fish. Also, did you make a food stockpile? Food left outside of a food stockpile will mass rot before long. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 06:20, 1 March 2008 (EST)

::Yep, I have plenty of edible food ( non-rotten, stockpiled, etc). The food is definetly edible, but the dwarfs, after a while, jsut lose the will to eat! they still keep drinking, though ;)--[[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 12:55, 7 March 2008 (EST)

:::Is your food forbidden? Dwarves will not eat forbidden food. Try cooking your food. Some plants cannot be eaten without being cooked. Some plants can't be eaten at all.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 21:15, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

== Meals ==

Do Roasts fill up dwarves more than biscuits? It seems logical that they would but I'm not sure. Also, do roasts take longer to eat? --[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 00:20, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

:AFAIK, no. And it's not logical. Suppose you take 2 units of meat to make two bisquits, or four units of meat to make four roasts. Why would roasts be any larger?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:25, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

::Oh yeah... Well, then what's the advantage of making biscuits over roasts? Am I missing something?--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 04:39, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

::: None. With roast you get bigger meal stacks that are more likely to not fit in barrels - good cos you save barrels. You have a higher chance per meal that you please the preference of a dwarf. You have half the number of items - less clutter. Some people claim that the cook collects more experience from easy meals since he cooks more, but i cant confirm. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 10:41, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

::::A cook gets 30xp per meal, not depending on the size. That's been on the wiki since late 2006.
::::It might've not been written into the new wiki yet, though. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:55, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
:: let's see - if you combine [info on DF] with [2006] what do you get? ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:31, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::Ok, thanks for clearing it up.--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 16:59, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

== Meal Value ==

I was just wondering if anyone has done any research into how the value of prepared meals is calculated. I was somewhat curious because in my current fort I happened to notice that two stacks of masterpiece roasts were created of value 544☼ and 164☼, neither of which values is divisible by 12 (the masterpiece value modifier). In the case of both roasts, all the ingredients were plump helmet spawns. Also, how is overall meal quality decided? I had previously assumed that it was the highest quality out of the individual ingredient qualities, but in the case of the 544☼ meal all four ingredients were superiorly minced. I know that having a high quality ingredient in amongst low quality ingredients does bump up the overall quality, as with the 164☼ meal, which was 1 masterfully minced and 3 finely minced ingredients. Also, another oddity that I've just noticed: I got another "masterpiece" message, and took a look. "☼Plump helmet spawn roast [4]☼ This is a stack of 4 superiorly prepared Plump helmet spawn roast." I didn't see what the other two said, so perhaps the value is based off the description overall quality rather than the item name symbol quality?--[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 00:32, 23 June 2008 (EDT)
:Ok, so I managed to answer my own question by looking up the [[Item value]] page. Never mind then.--[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

== Question about the Z screen ==

When I press "z", and go into the menu, it tells me my food stores are well over 500. However, I am very low on meat, fish, and plants. The only category which has a high number is "other". What type of food is considered "other"? Is it cooked/prepared food? Any help would be great.
: Cooked food is in the "other" category.[[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 08:51, 5 August 2008 (EDT)
: Fat and tallow fall under the "other". :) I had a hunter who was also my bookkeeper and he steadily brought in a Muskox or two each day (legendary skills and all. If he ran out of bolts, he could club an ox several squares down the map with his crossbow). I didn't realize just how much fat I'd piled up a few years later... and there's not much you can do other than render it (I'm not all that big on soap) or cook it. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 01:22, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
::You have to render fat to cook it, you know... <_< --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:16, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
:::Ah, right. So fat is useless unless you render it. :) And, lucky me, I've got about 800 units of it still in 1-5 piece allocations. *sigh* I should have realized something was up when I saw that I had 1500 Other items, but I just figured my cook had been busy. But, to answer the original question, go to the stockpile option and look at what it lists under food. Eliminate the meat, fish, seeds, booze, and plants. The remaining items are Other and can be found in their respective lists under Stock (including bone meal... if it existed). Oh, flour and sugar probably count towards there too. Not certain if dye gets counted as well. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:39, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Bone meal does exist - you just have to [[Glowing pit|(HIDDEN FUN STUFF)]]. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:21, 18 November 2008 (EST)

== Rots ''where'', exactly? ==

I've had prepared meals rot inside a kitchen indoors but have never seen prepared foot rot '''outdoors''' as long as it's been stockpiled - even outside of a barrel. Maybe some research should be done as to where it rots...? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:22, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
:From what I've seen, food rots anywhere that isn't a stockpile (regardless of being indoors or out). However, If you store your food outdoors then vermin tend to get at your food piles easier. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 22:35, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

:Food on a food stockpile will indeed never rot, no matter where the stockpile is. You can put a dump on top of a food stockpile, for instance (or vice-versa), and any food dumped there will not rot.

:Vermin don't seem to be able to rot food but they will supposedly eat it (this is something Toady told me a long time ago). He also said they're less likely to get at it if it's stored in barrels. Personally, I've never actually seen food lost to vermin; it's hard to spot, given how quickly dwarves can produce food, and also how quickly they eat it.

:Anyhow, the bit about food outdoors rotting appears to be dead wrong, so I'll fix it.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:39, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

::Current observations on my end seem to support what you've observed. Thus, this is awesome. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:14, 18 November 2008 (EST)

::: I don't think this statement from the article is true: "Uncooked meat and fish is subject to wear and will eventually rot if it is not cooked, even in barrels." I have never seen this, as long as it is stockpiled. Anybody? (40d) --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:54, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

::::Vermin will wear down food, even in stockpiles. If food is worn down enough, it either disappears or rots (never actually seen what happens, because this is a rare occurence). ''Possibly'' unprotected food will be worn down if enough dwarves walk on it. Maybe. Needs testing.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 21:12, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Food

2009-04-27T21:12:56Z

Zipdog: /* Rots where, exactly? */

== Rate of consumption ==

Does anyone know the rate at which dwarf eats food? --[[User:Okita|Okita]] 01:18, 6 June 2008 (EST)

:Someone calculated it way back in the 2D days. IIRC, they came up with 6 food and 18 drink per dwarf per year, but I don't think that was very accurate. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:49, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

I just ran some tests (Dwarven Science at its best). My 7 starting dwarves consistantly ate 2 food and drank 4 drinks per season. I tested with all 7 dwarves mining for the whole year, reloaded and then had them idle for the whole year. It was the same both times. The only variation i got was sometime by the end of the season one of them hadent gotten around to eating or drinking but over the whole year it averaged out.
--[[User:Abregado|Abregado]] 08:03, 22 January 2009 (EST)
:2 food and 4 drinks each? This probably ought to be put on the main "Food" page. --[[User:Timmeh|Timmeh]] 02:25, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

== Starvation ==

Once my [[butcher]] starts ''hunting for small creatures'' - how do I get him to actually slaughter an animal so everyone can eat?
Or do I need to make someone else a butcher so my butcher can have a snack?

Why does this shite always happen when the merchant turns up?? ;) [[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:36, 13 February 2008 (EST)

::This is beacause your dwarves are very hungry and start looking for vermin to eat. [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 02:48, 23 June 2008 (EDT)

== Hunger bug ==

First of all, i'm a new user, so if this needs putting somewhere else or whatever, just send me an e-mail or something. Anyway, I have a bug that keeps crippling my fortress. Sometime halfway through the year, my dwarfs (dwarves? i dunno :S) stop eating. completely. they then get hungry, tantrums kick off, and chaos ensues. any tips?
--[[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 05:34, 1 March 2008 (EST)

::Do you have food? If so, what KIND of food? They can't eat raw dead things, and they can't even eat butchered dead things. They also can't eat most kinds of uncooked fish. Also, did you make a food stockpile? Food left outside of a food stockpile will mass rot before long. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 06:20, 1 March 2008 (EST)

::Yep, I have plenty of edible food ( non-rotten, stockpiled, etc). The food is definetly edible, but the dwarfs, after a while, jsut lose the will to eat! they still keep drinking, though ;)--[[User:Shabang50|Shabang50]] 12:55, 7 March 2008 (EST)

== Meals ==

Do Roasts fill up dwarves more than biscuits? It seems logical that they would but I'm not sure. Also, do roasts take longer to eat? --[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 00:20, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

:AFAIK, no. And it's not logical. Suppose you take 2 units of meat to make two bisquits, or four units of meat to make four roasts. Why would roasts be any larger?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 00:25, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

::Oh yeah... Well, then what's the advantage of making biscuits over roasts? Am I missing something?--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 04:39, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

::: None. With roast you get bigger meal stacks that are more likely to not fit in barrels - good cos you save barrels. You have a higher chance per meal that you please the preference of a dwarf. You have half the number of items - less clutter. Some people claim that the cook collects more experience from easy meals since he cooks more, but i cant confirm. --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 10:41, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

::::A cook gets 30xp per meal, not depending on the size. That's been on the wiki since late 2006.
::::It might've not been written into the new wiki yet, though. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 11:55, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
:: let's see - if you combine [info on DF] with [2006] what do you get? ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 15:31, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
:::::Ok, thanks for clearing it up.--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 16:59, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

== Meal Value ==

I was just wondering if anyone has done any research into how the value of prepared meals is calculated. I was somewhat curious because in my current fort I happened to notice that two stacks of masterpiece roasts were created of value 544☼ and 164☼, neither of which values is divisible by 12 (the masterpiece value modifier). In the case of both roasts, all the ingredients were plump helmet spawns. Also, how is overall meal quality decided? I had previously assumed that it was the highest quality out of the individual ingredient qualities, but in the case of the 544☼ meal all four ingredients were superiorly minced. I know that having a high quality ingredient in amongst low quality ingredients does bump up the overall quality, as with the 164☼ meal, which was 1 masterfully minced and 3 finely minced ingredients. Also, another oddity that I've just noticed: I got another "masterpiece" message, and took a look. "☼Plump helmet spawn roast [4]☼ This is a stack of 4 superiorly prepared Plump helmet spawn roast." I didn't see what the other two said, so perhaps the value is based off the description overall quality rather than the item name symbol quality?--[[User:Morlark|Morlark]] 00:32, 23 June 2008 (EDT)
:Ok, so I managed to answer my own question by looking up the [[Item value]] page. Never mind then.--[[User:Morlark|Morlark]]

== Question about the Z screen ==

When I press "z", and go into the menu, it tells me my food stores are well over 500. However, I am very low on meat, fish, and plants. The only category which has a high number is "other". What type of food is considered "other"? Is it cooked/prepared food? Any help would be great.
: Cooked food is in the "other" category.[[User:Dangerous Beans|Dangerous Beans]] 08:51, 5 August 2008 (EDT)
: Fat and tallow fall under the "other". :) I had a hunter who was also my bookkeeper and he steadily brought in a Muskox or two each day (legendary skills and all. If he ran out of bolts, he could club an ox several squares down the map with his crossbow). I didn't realize just how much fat I'd piled up a few years later... and there's not much you can do other than render it (I'm not all that big on soap) or cook it. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 01:22, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
::You have to render fat to cook it, you know... <_< --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 16:16, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
:::Ah, right. So fat is useless unless you render it. :) And, lucky me, I've got about 800 units of it still in 1-5 piece allocations. *sigh* I should have realized something was up when I saw that I had 1500 Other items, but I just figured my cook had been busy. But, to answer the original question, go to the stockpile option and look at what it lists under food. Eliminate the meat, fish, seeds, booze, and plants. The remaining items are Other and can be found in their respective lists under Stock (including bone meal... if it existed). Oh, flour and sugar probably count towards there too. Not certain if dye gets counted as well. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 16:39, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Bone meal does exist - you just have to [[Glowing pit|(HIDDEN FUN STUFF)]]. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:21, 18 November 2008 (EST)

== Rots ''where'', exactly? ==

I've had prepared meals rot inside a kitchen indoors but have never seen prepared foot rot '''outdoors''' as long as it's been stockpiled - even outside of a barrel. Maybe some research should be done as to where it rots...? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 20:22, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
:From what I've seen, food rots anywhere that isn't a stockpile (regardless of being indoors or out). However, If you store your food outdoors then vermin tend to get at your food piles easier. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 22:35, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

:Food on a food stockpile will indeed never rot, no matter where the stockpile is. You can put a dump on top of a food stockpile, for instance (or vice-versa), and any food dumped there will not rot.

:Vermin don't seem to be able to rot food but they will supposedly eat it (this is something Toady told me a long time ago). He also said they're less likely to get at it if it's stored in barrels. Personally, I've never actually seen food lost to vermin; it's hard to spot, given how quickly dwarves can produce food, and also how quickly they eat it.

:Anyhow, the bit about food outdoors rotting appears to be dead wrong, so I'll fix it.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 00:39, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

::Current observations on my end seem to support what you've observed. Thus, this is awesome. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:14, 18 November 2008 (EST)

::: I don't think this statement from the article is true: "Uncooked meat and fish is subject to wear and will eventually rot if it is not cooked, even in barrels." I have never seen this, as long as it is stockpiled. Anybody? (40d) --[[User:Kwieland|Kwieland]] 17:54, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

::::Vermin will wear down food, even in stockpiles. If food is worn down enough, it either disappears or rots (never actually seen what happens, because this is a rare occurence). ''Possibly'' unprotected food will be worn down if enough dwarves walk on it. Maybe. Needs testing.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 21:12, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Volcano

2009-04-23T22:44:46Z

Zipdog: /* Draining a volcano */

== Volcano on world map. ==

[[Image:Dwarffortressvolcanoonworldmap.jpg|600px]]
Changes to articles were made as needed.

== Where volcanoes form...? (verify) ==

The statement about volcanoes forming around the edge of oceans looks wrong to me. I was unaware of any such trend on the worlds I've seen so far. As I understand it, there is a magma activity map that varies across the the world and 'peaks' at certain points in the terrain creating volcanoes. I don't know how toady has implemented that, but I'm sure it has nothing to do with the rims of oceans. --[[User:Markavian|Markavian]]

==Cavern collapse==
Is not related to the generation of water above magma and instant crystallisation and collapse. Because I got that phenomenon when I settled at an extinct volcano (no magma present in pipe). --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 07:35, 29 June 2008 (EDT)

==Erupting volcanoes==
It would appear that volcanoes can now erupt http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-685-volcano#lastComment;?%3E [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 03:19, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
:Nope, that's just a (somewhat) common bug where a volcano and a bottomless pit are generated on the same spot. Here's another video of the same bug, where the poor dwarves embarked right next to the lava. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-701-shortestfortever [[User:Spoggerific|Spoggerific]] 15:33, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::Does this bug occur immediately on embark, or anytime? I've had a volcano appear to erupt quite a bit after I embarked, it spit fire everywhere, and burnt up a bunch of the landscape (and several of my dwarves). [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 11:39, 31 December 2008 (EST)
:::Depends on the version, if you're importing an old save, and if Armok wants to see a bloodfest. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:28, 31 December 2008 (EST)
::::<strike>This was the latest version, so I can pretty much confirm that yes, volcanoes do erupt now. Saw it again tonight.</strike> [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 23:13, 31 December 2008 (EST)
::::Having said that, I was also attacked by a Fire Man tonight, that produced pretty much the same effect ... fire everywhere, burning everything. So I guess I can't truly confirm volcanoes erupt, it could have been a Fire Man. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 00:19, 1 January 2009 (EST)
:::::That depends - was the world burninating after the so-called "eruption" or was there just a solid sheet of ash among the trees? If it was the former, a fire man started the blaze; the latter, lava spilled over the world. This requires testing, apparently - time to embark over a volcano and survive for as long as possible. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:24, 1 January 2009 (EST)

That's not cool, I just got the latest version (finally) and I am living '''inside''' a volcano. Like there is this big circular cut through the mountain, and I dug through on the level above the magma and started a fort there, digging around the magma. Any tips, other than when I see strange activity order my dwarves to go downstairs and don't come out. I get the feeling I should move all of my stockpiles circling the vent... And I realize that not much is known aobut this, I just think some "general" safety tips would be a good thing to have now.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 11:28, 1 January 2009 (EST)

:I've been playing a fortress for 10 years straight on a named volcano that is open to the surface with no sign of an eruption (playing under 40d). It's possible only some volcanoes erupt, though, or that it's rare. Or it's possible that players are just witnessing the bug Spoggerific describes above. I know Toady ''wants'' volcanoes to erupt at some point, but I'm not aware that he's actually implemented it yet.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:52, 1 January 2009 (EST)

== Draining a volcano ==

I had read that magma tiles were supposed to be sources of magma.

So I am a bit suprised that having dug (admittedly a quite large) room in the bottom z-level then opened it up to the magma pipe, I have drained the top five z-levels of my volcano.

It has been several seasons now. I am wondering will the volcano pipe fill back up or have I drained it permenantly?

[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 03:18, 31 August 2008 (EDT)
:Magma occurs in one of two ways: pools and pipes. Magma pipes are never-ending sources of magma that refill fairly quickly, although not nearly as fast as aquifers. Magma ''pools,'' on the other hand, do not refill. I believe that magma tiles on the embark screen just mean that magma is visible on that particular surface tile. This means that both pools and pipes appear as magma tiles on embarking. This needs to be confirmed (because I could just be pulling this out of thin air, all my embark screen magma tiles have been pipes) but it would certainly explain your situation.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 22:44, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Undead

2009-04-23T02:17:08Z

Zipdog: /* Zombie Gas Warfare */ new section

One question: I had two dwarves that were not always occupied hunt small zombies and skeletons (hoary marmots, mountain goat and such). Apart from getting really good at wrestling, they both seemed to gain "Is used to tragedy" as a character trait. Can anyone confirm that? -- [[User:qwertyu|qwertyu]] 12:34, 9 March 2008 (CET)

:That always happens regardless of what they are killing.

:Should we include the fact that attempting to pit undead animals of any kind will result in them attacking the moment they are released, regardless of how close they are to the pit. (They can be right next to it but still attack the pit-ter once they are out of the cages)
:--[[User:Umiman|Umiman]] 07:39, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

::I believe we should put it in as a warning to those who attempt to put captured undead in pits.
::--Rickola

:::Should it be mentioned that the Undead versions are much more tougher than 'normal' creatures, once I had an entire fortress wiped out by a single Undead Racoon. --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 06:47, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

::::I think zombies are a lot harder than skeletons. Maybe undead horses are just absurdly hard anyway, but I put all seven of my starting dwarves on a single zombie horse. Sure, they were untrained and unarmored and were wrestling it to death (except for the miners), but all seven dwarves went from untrained in wrestling to novice wrestlers, became tired/exhausted, AND two dwarves died and three got yellow/red injuries, before that single zombie horse went down. Then the other four zombie horses wandered in... Skeletons seem to be a lot easier to kill. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 04:15, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Though zombies are easy to run away from. My dwarves sidestep zombies whenever they see them (which is often, on my current map), but skeletons would corner them. Zombies are, however, famously difficult to kill by wrestling. Use an axe or sword.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:25, 22 November 2008 (EST)

::::::Zombies are utterly impossible to kill with wrestling. The only wrestling move that can kill at all is strangling, and zombies don't breathe or bleed. Dwarves set to wrestle undead will only ever destroy them with punches. If you're heading into an evil biome, I'd recommend bringing a well-armed macedwarf! That'll teach 'em to stay dead, pretty darn quick. Swords aren't so good, spears and picks even worse, though axes will do okay. In a pinch, at least make your dwarves shields to bash with. It's a matter of raw damage. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:27, 22 November 2008 (EST)

== Skeleton Corpse ==

I have a Skeleton Horse Corpses. That's not normal, right? It appears to have fallen several levels into a river. Adjacent to it (well... adjacent if you ignore the z-difference) are bridge squares and weapon traps. --[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 11:55, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

:I saw [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=22793.0 this report] a while ago on the bugs board. May be worth resurrecting it (especially if you can supply saves)? --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 14:21, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

::Hmm, just noticed it wasn't on the bugs board, but on the gameplay questions board. May be worth starting a thread on the bugs board then? --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 15:49, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

::: Ah, the board. I hadn't even looked at that yet. Anyway, the person you linked to posted in the bugs board too, so I guess this is known. I didn't think of getting a save... --[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 07:24, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Skeletal creatures ==

I was told that skeletal creatures would lose their limbs whenever they hit broken status. Is this true?

As another note, if that is true, I have a bug that occured. Under the assumption broken bones = removed bones for the skeletons, one of my hammerdwarves hit a skeletal dragon so hard that its upper body was instantly mangled, skipping the broken (and thusly removed) state entirely.[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 17:17, 9 November 2008 (EST)

Assuming the 'sever on break' tag applies to skeletons, it only applies to limbs. You can't 'sever' a torso. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:27, 22 November 2008 (EST)

==Undead Megabeasts ==

Could this be elaborated on a bit? I've never seen an undead megabeast in the legends screen. How does this work? How rare is it (absurdly rare, I guess)? [[User:Lastofthelight|Lastofthelight]]

:I've had a zombie Titan... no idea why it was a zombie but it was the only megabeast i'd seen. Really, megabeasts are far too rare now that they can be killed off in world gen. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:29, 8 January 2009 (EST)

::Agreed. Somehow, I've managed to avoid seeing a megabeast entirely as of yet. Zombies and skeletons are hard enough to find; megabeasts are nearly impossible.

::To be honest, I'm really hoping Toady hurries up and brings back the undead event that was talked about in [[Core components]]. That is, undead dwarves and pets that died in your fortress would pop through the floor and attack you. Spooky. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 07:10, 1 February 2009 (EST)

== Zombie Gas Warfare ==

It should be noted that "live" zombies also spread miasma if they are indoors. I have seen this on several occasions, but all with zombie fire imps, so I can't actually confirm that it happens with other zombie types.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 02:17, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Blood

2009-04-23T02:09:50Z

Zipdog:

The spreading mud/blood issue is fixed as of 0.27.169.33f. Toady One has disabled mud/blood spreading for the time being.

:Did it spread like infinite water?--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 19:36, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

:: afaik, the blood/mud became fresh any time anything stepped in it, so if it got into a major hallway or a chokepoint, it covered your whole fortress... [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 16:24, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

Since all my goblin gear is in brackets like (this), I assume that indicates something covered in blood? I know elves don't buy bloodied items, but does it otherwise affect the price? And does blood eventually wear off? Hopefully some important tidbits to add to the page. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 19:22, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

objects in (brackets) mean that they were imported or produced off site. 
As far as I know, the only way to check blood is to open the full detail page. 

--[[User:Lordmick134|Lordmick134]] 19:47, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

:(edit conflict)
:No, parenthesized items are ones created by people other than yours -- they don't count in your "created wealth". You can see blood by viewing description in the stock menu, inventory or otherwise: for instance an axe will show "Contents: goblin blood covering". Blood seems to last a long time still, not sure if it ever goes away. All my cats are covered in blood, vomit, and ichor spatters. Ick. [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 19:50, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

how do you clean it/disable it? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]]

: Get rid of it? Hell, I want MORE of it! Any way one can keep blood from being cleaned up by dwarves with the cleaning job? The sacrificial pit in my temple must run red! --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 00:38, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

::More to the point, is there any REASON to get rid of it? Does having blood staining your walls (or clothes, or skin, or pets...) have any negative effect? I haven't seen anywhere that it does, nor vomit. Makes the Cleaning labor seem like a waste of time to me, other than for aesthetic purposes. [[User:Kirig Stonebeard|Kirig Stonebeard]] 08:52, 26 February 2009 (EST)

"Creatures have a limited amount of blood" This means that things bleed to death once they run out of blood. However, once things STOP bleeding, do they regain that blood? Or, does it also mean that if the creature bleeds enough times--even for short time periods--they will eventually run out. Does this make sense? Can anyone answer this question?--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 02:09, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Fortress defense

2009-04-19T21:41:50Z

Zipdog: /* Armed Civilians */

i ve seen discussions bout "moats/pits" here and there - why not simply use an empty channel? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 11:07, 6 March 2008 (EST)

Style, mostly. Well, that and an empty channel isn't deadly to anyone falling into it (Which can happen on occasion in a big bunch of enemies.) For most things, though, an empty channel backed by a wall to prevent projectile fire is sufficient. --[[User:Erom|Erom]] 13:44, 6 March 2008 (EST)

== Planning for building destroyers ==

So, apart from doors (and things like workshops) what can a building destroyer monster break through? Do I have to worry about a [[magma man]] breaking through the wall grate filter in my magma supply, or a [[troll]] busting through my arrow slits (= fortifications)? [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:59, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:I've seen them destroy ballistas, statues and hatch covers. They probably can destroy anything that can be built. --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 13:10, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

I got a [[bronze colossus]] to play with and did some testing. (They really do regenerate quickly!)

Things destroyed:
*iron/steel/stone doors (gone)
*stone wall grate (gone)
*trade depot (deconstructed into rough stones)
*glass statues (deconstructed only, they were sitting next to where they were installed; game says "toppled")
*vertical steel bars (deconstructed only; "toppled")

Things not destroyed:
*constructed or carved walls and fortifications (ignored)
*rope (for holding guard dogs; it walked right over)
*drawbridge (walked across; ignored while up)

Science! [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:04, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

: I was under the impression that a bronze colossus would destroy constructed walls/fortifications if they are the only way to get to dwarves. This is also claimed in the unpolished [[fortifications]] page. Is that true? --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:40, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

== Armed Civilians ==
I tried the armed civilian stuff, but an unfortunate side effect is that hunters seem to sleep anywhere except in their beds. Also the forums suggest giving 'fake' woodcutting or mining jobs so that civilians carry pick-axes or battle-axes. This does not address the armor issue, though. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:35, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
:I'd add that it's possible to be mistaken about having no wildlife to hunt! Not all wildlife is present when you embark, there's some random appearances of things like macaques from the edge of the map. It doesn't have to be MUCH wildlife to be disruptive to this plan, either. Ever see 13 dwarves hunting one alligator, with maces? Gah. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 00:57, 21 December 2008 (EST)!
::It is true that wildlife constantly changes, but it is possible to have no ''huntable'' wildlife. On a beach map, I had several roving schools of cod. Nothing else. Just lots and lots of cod. I have tried to kill some of them, but so far I have gotten nothing but cod on that map. It should be noted that these cod were way out in the middle of the ocean.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 06:11, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

==Use of User Names in Defense Designs==
May I suggest we not use them. Sure, someone may have been the first one to propose it on the wiki, but that doesn't mean others haven't thought about it before (in the case of the trapped chained animal somewhere away from your fort, I know I've seen that on the forums before, and its identical to the 'Roach Motel' from [[Defense guide]]), and it doesn't mean that you're some kind of genius to have thought of it.

Its not like I haven't provided novel suggestions (including on this page), but it seems wrong to lay claim to them. A lot of it has to do with understanding how the game works and the solutions proceed logically from that.

As such, I am removing usernames from the subsection titles. I don't feel they're appropriate. If people disagree, lets discuss it here, but the wiki is not about self-aggrandizement, its about providing information about what works and what doesn't. Who first wrote about it on the wiki shouldn't be relevant. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:54, 22 December 2008 (EST)

:I wouldn't have put my name if others weren't already there for ages. Nor did I ever think any of the names were really laying claim to inventing these things. I don't give a damn if my name's there or not, and accusing me of self-aggrandizement is a little rude. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:43, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::Sidestepping the issue of accusations, I agree with Squirrelloid that names are best left off article pages. It interferes with collaborative writing that is the core of the wiki model -- you can't freely rewrite what someone else has written if it says "I wrote and/or designed this".--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:00, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::I did not specifically call you out Corona nor did I speculate on any particular poster's motives. I can see how you may have necessarily read my comment as implying such, however, and I apologize for that. Peace? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:37, 29 December 2008 (EST)

:Further vote of agreement on [[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]]'s action. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 00:36, 24 December 2008 (EST)

:Even more agreement. Barring outstanding complaint, we'll stick with this modified version. --[[User:LucienSadi|LucienSadi]] 06:39, 25 December 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Well

2009-04-19T20:58:12Z

Zipdog: /* Another Fair Warning */

Where can these be constructed? only near an aquifer?--[[User:Alc|Alc]] 14:16, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

Open space probably refers to just that - a dug-out space below it that leads to water. Will have to test, though. --[[User:Tracker|Tracker]] 15:54, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

Does it need to be a channel all the way down, on all levels below the well, or can you have normal floor below it all the way down to water? Can you put one well directly above another well, and have them both work (if there's water below)? --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 15:56, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
: yes.no.no.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 12:27, 1 March 2008 (EST)
:: I've built a well directly above another one, both are stated as "Active" --[[User:ConstantA|ConstantA]] 01:36, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

Has it been verified that you need water down there? --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 11:22, 8 November 2007 (EST)
:yes.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 12:27, 1 March 2008 (EST)

Does anyone know if it is okay to have a well like this? 
(side view)
<pre>
_W_
| | <-- Empty space between water and well
|~| <-- Water down here
---
</pre>
--[[User:Delton|Delton]] 16:07, 14 November 2007 (EST)

Confirmed that the above is a functional well.
--[[User:Delton|Delton]] 07:52, 19 November 2007 (EST)

==Potential Problem==
As of v0.27.176.38a, when using an artificaly created well (by designating a 'Pond' zone and having dwarves fill it), it is posible that dwarves will take water from the well in order to fill the pond which feeds the well, acomplishing nothing. To correct this, examine the items contained in the well by pressing 't', then forbid the bucket and rope contained in the well. This will stop dwarves from taking water from the well and allow you to fill it. You can then reclaim the bucket and rope to make the well usable again.

Should this be in the article?

[[User:Duo|Duo]] March 11th 2008

== Flooding? ==

Gah! Why do my wells keep flooding? How can I prevent this? [[User:Runspotrun|Runspotrun]] 06:08, 26 November 2007 (EST)

-- Well ... if you did it like I did [http://www.vaevictus.net/images/bucket_full.png (lol)], you lost to backpressure. i filled from a reservoir that was taller than my well floor. (and it was attached to a brook. :) I'm working on using a floodgate and pressure plate to regulate water levels. [[User:Vaevictus|Vaevictus]] 11:30, 20 December 2007 (EST)

== Fair Warning ==

Whatever you do, don't let a barracks area overlap any of your wells. Military dwarves can and will fall in if they're sparring next to it. Ah well, I didn't want that full set of bismuth bronze armor anyway. -- [[User:Vanst|Vanst]] 08:39, 26 December 2007 (EST)

== Grates and Buckets ==

Buckets don't pass through grates, in the well construct. That means a well with a grate halfway will become dry. I had 2/7 water above the grate (and 5 levels of 7/7 water under it), but it was not enough. [[User:Wlievens|Wlievens]] 07:24, 23 January 2008 (EST)

== flood? ==

I have a <s>lake</s> murky pool outside(reaching down one more z level). On the same level i want to construct a well inside. can i just build a channel, thus tap the lake on the lower z level and then build a well on top of the end of the channel? or do i need one more level free space? If i can, will the water flood my outpost or will it stop on floor level? would it help if i tapped the lake one more level down? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 17:12, 8 February 2008 (EST)
:So long as the well is at or above the level of the pond you will have no problem. --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 23:11, 11 February 2008 (EST)
:: It worked fine. Now however the murky pool is dry, so i built a new one tapping the river. ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 13:53, 22 February 2008 (EST)

== Using Buckets? ==
I'm having a hard time getting my dwarfs to use their new well. I...
* Dug a Channel with water beneath it.
* Designated a drinking zone beside it.
** The dwarfs now drink from the channel.
** Loo{{k|k}}ing at the space they're drinking from says Open Space
* Created Blocks, Bucket, Rope
* {{k|b}}uild we{{k|l}}l over the water beside the drinking designation.

Now what happened was I got a massive flood of messages saying something like "XXX Cancelled Drinking: No Bucket at well"

So I went and built another Bucket, and now I have 2 buckets sitting in my finished goods stockpile, and nobody who's willing to drink from the well. How do I instruct the lazy dwarves to go and get the bucket and use it with the well?

[[User:Zeidrich|Zeidrich]] 15:15, 29 February 2008 (EST)

: Why do you need them to use the well? As far as I know, the only time having a well is useful is when the injured need water. Even then, I strongly suspect that people can just drink from the river. --[[User:Shadow archmagi|Shadow archmagi]] 16:02, 29 February 2008 (EST)

:: Well, I want them to use a well because I built it! It looks prettier than drinking out of the stream. I'm pretty sure they get bad thoughts when they drink directly out of the stream. In this particular circumstance I was short on brewable supplies and I had a bunch of thirsty dwarves. Regardless of whether or not I should necessarily be using a well, I would like know ''how'' to use it.-- [[User:Zeidrich|Zeidrich]] 18:37, 29 February 2008 (EST)
:::Well, I believe that the well is *'''built'''* with a bucket, since you require one for construction. If it's really not there for whatever reason, then you may want to rebuild the well(and make sure that furniture hauling orders are ON), and if that doesn't fix it, then i think this is a bug and should be reported to the Toady One, along with the save. --[[User:Digger|Digger]] 05:22, 1 March 2008 (EST)
::::Yes, the bucket for 'normal' drinking is built into the well. U only need extra buckets to fill a pond or give water to a resting dwarf. Check with the q-menu if the well is even finished.--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 12:27, 1 March 2008 (EST)
:::::Nope, not a bug. I figured out what it was. Apparantly my architect was far too busy tilling soil and hauling rocks to go and gather the rope and the bucket and connect them to the well. So while I had all of the materials, and the well looked complete, it was actually waiting for construction. I think I was just confused by the message as my dwarves were trying to drink from it before it was ready. [[User:Zeidrich|Zeidrich]] 11:54, 3 March 2008 (EST)

== Another Fair Warning ==
Dwarves don't even need to spar to fall into wells, they will generally not avoid walking over a well tile. This will result in the warning "X cancels...dangerous terrain" followed by dropping in anyway. The last bloody fool who dropped in seems to have been gobbling away at his food while walking, down the shaft among his gear i found 1 dwarven sugar roast. I mean, i know my sugar roast is delicious, but can you please sit down first like any goodmannered dwarf? How will I ever clean up that bloody mess you left in our water supply? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 22:24, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
:Might be a good idea to designate the well's square a restricted traffic area and the eight squares around it low traffic. This should make aimless wanderers step around it instead of going WHEE! Animals don't respect traffic though, so maybe there will still be dogs and cats in the well. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 09:32, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
::One can fix the problem of well-diving dwarves by building a staircase adjacent to the well for them to climb out of... as long as your well isn't deep enough that they are stunned by the fall, or you have running water that sweeps them away.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 20:58, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

== 1x1 Well ==
Does anyone have a good plan for digging a deep, unconnected 1x1 well? I'm currently thinking about trying something like this design, side view:
<pre>
_W_
| | <-- Empty space between water and well
| | <-- Empty space between water and well
| | <-- Empty space between water and well
| | <-- Opening room
|~~~| <-- Water down here
---
</pre>

It would be built like below, with a level pulled to knockout the support. Would the center collapse leaving a nice shaft?
<pre>
_ _
|r| <-- Ramp down
|r| <-- Ramp down
|r| <-- Ramp down
| X | <-- stairwelldown
| S | <-- Support. Water will be down here, but starts out dry?
---
</pre>
[[User:Tulthix|Tulthix]] 12:49, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

:It won't fall down as the ramps still have support from the adjacent stone/walls. I've been trying to figure out how to make a 1x1 shaft too but haven't had much luck. When getting the dwarves to build ramps on top of each other they do build a shaft downwards but after a certain depth the pathfinding seems to get confused and they stop. [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 02:36, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

:I was able to accomplish this by digging out a side-wall and re-building the wall after deconstructing a staircase down the shaft one tile at a time. If you want it to look pretty the 1x1 shaft going down should have nice stone smoothing on as well (and it covers up the "filled in wall" seam. Alternate methods: sacrificial dwarf can pull it off (he will rot away at the bottom of your water tank) and a utilitarian "escape hatch" out the bottom of the tank. I like putting in an escape hatch at the bottom, connected to a lever, with a grate and outflow underneath so I can retrieve that adamantium armor that falls down there. (when I don't build in an escape stairway anyway). [[User:Weasello|Weasello]] 10:34, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

:I recently discovered a handy method for digging single-tile vertical shafts clean. Dig out the shaft by making it a tall stairwell. After it's dug out, channel out the stairs at the top. Your miner will stand one level underneath it and destroy the stairs from below. After that's gone, repeat this level by level, until you're at the bottom, where you can destroy the stairway going up with d > z. This also allows for you to smooth the walls of the shaft, or replace the dirt walls with constructed stone ones before you take out the stairs. [[User:Vanguard|Vanguard]] 16:49, 25 February 2009 (EST)

==Salt Water==

I've had a map with only salt water and an injured dwarf. Nobody could give him water because it was all salty. But I built a well over the water and dwarves brought the injured dwarf water. This happen to anyone else? --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 12:29, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

==FAQ==
"How deep can a well be?"

This was added to the Water FAQ. I thought it better to put here, and the answer can be put on the Well page if/when it's discovered; as opposed to creating an entire new FAQ page. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 06:04, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

:At this time (33g) I believe there's no limit to how far from water a well can be, as long as all tiles between are open space.
:I've got a particularly vertical map (something on the order of 50+/- levels!) so I'll give this some testing later and update this (within a week hopefully) if my tests conflict with my opinion that there's no limit. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 21:59, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

== Smoothing walls for a well ==

Does smoothing the walls of a place to be filled with water prevent stagnant water?
:Makes no difference. [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 09:32, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

::Doesn't matter. Dwarves will still drink stagnant water from ponds. --[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 14:05, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters and wells ==
Way back in the 2D days, monsters would sometimes come out of wells. Does this ever happen in DF3D? Now that there's a real Z-axis, I imagine that monsters aren't just randomly generated like they used to be... but I do wonder whether tapping an underground river might cause something unpleasant to ride the bucket upward. I'm playing on a map with an underground river and a chasm, and I'm wondering how careful I need to be with my wells. --[[User:Ookpik|Ookpik]] 05:45, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

IIRC monsters can't pass through grates - so instead of putting the well directly over the river, make an artificial stream with both ends blocked from the river by a grate. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 01:33, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
:I've never managed to make a grate block any water creature. I've had perch and lampreys pass through grates and pumps to end up in my meeting area. I wonder if bars would work better... [[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 02:30, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
::Grates/bars don't block vermin-class critters, which most fish are. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 09:11, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
::Right, but those can't attack you. It will (should) block carp. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 15:54, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
::Can vermin pass through fortifications? [[User:Random832|Random832]] 15:55, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

== Zone only drinking ==

Will a dwarf still drink from a well if zone only drinking is set? --[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 02:14, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

== Wells periodically and mysteriously destroyed ==

I don't know what's going on with my above ground wells, but it seems I have to rebuild them about once every year or so. My dwarves are a happy bunch so there have been no tantrums and no bouts of vandalism or building destruction are recorded in my justice screen. I tried setting the area immediately around the wells as low traffic and the well itself as restricted traffic, but they still vanish, leaving one of their parts in the river-fed pool underneath. Could it have something to do with the fact that my fisherdwarves sometimes fish from the wells? Or is there a minor amount of seasonal flooding that I can not see but will destroy the wells? [[User:Lungfish|Lungfish]] 15:17, 30 December 2008 (EST)

:Does it freeze? I had to re-build my outside well once every year in the spring until I moved it indoors. So, in my experience, only if it freezes, otherwise I don't know. The reason the part is there is because it drops onto the ice, which then melts. One more question, is it in a brook, river, or pond?--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 15:35, 30 December 2008 (EST)

::I think it is a regular, yearly, occurrence. I don't think it's a problem of freezing though, since I've never seen any ice and no one has ever walked over my moat. One thing that might be a clue: I built a well on the next Z level up from one of the wells that gets destroyed every year, and it's survived, so I think it is flooding or something like that. Also, I'm pretty sure the only ground-level well I have that isn't fed by my river has avoided destruction. But if flooding is the cause, I should see more water tiles, right? Oh well. [[User:Lungfish|Lungfish]] 06:35, 2 January 2009 (EST)

:::Mystery solved. At the very end of winter all the surface water DID freeze, but for such a short time that I thought it was just the game glitching out for a second. I guess everything makes sense now. I hope I can serve as a warning to future generations. [[User:Lungfish|Lungfish]] 01:22, 3 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Dwarven economy

2009-04-19T06:29:08Z

Zipdog: /* Fake Deaths */

1) Wages paid --- dwarves gain credit for tasks completed. Credit is either maintained or transferred into physical value when the dwarf in question claims coins.

2) Rent --- bedrooms have a rent assigned to them based on their room value. The rent schedule is unknown. How the dwarves physically pay the rent is unknown. If a dwarf cannot pay the rent an eviction notice is placed on the room. The specifics of eviction are unknown. Dwarves that cannot afford one of the available bedrooms will sleep in available barracks.

3) Shops --- Once the economy begins, shops may be constructed. There are several types of shops - clothing, general goods, exotic clothing and possibly others. A type of shop may not be specified; it seems to be selected randomly. Shops have an associated cost, which is assumed to be paid by the dwarf that takes control of the shop. Once a shop is owned, items will be moved to the shop corresponding to which type of shop it is. Dwarves then may buy items for the shop, presumably using the same credit system that may or may not correspond to actual physical coins.

4) Item cost - all physical items are given a cost, whether for sale or in a shop. It is unknown if dwarves pay a cost for an item picked up that was not for sale in a shop.

also - kids have combined wealth of their parents, which can lead to paris hilton-syndrome in DF - children with wealth of several thousand buying out the noble/admin rooms and owning shops filled with =giant cave spider silk dress= --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 04:07, 20 November 2007 (EST)

----

It seems that the dwarven economy is now triggered by the coming of a Baron /Baroness. I haven't seen it for myself but it's what I gather from the forums. There also seems to be a bug where all coins minted appear as the same coin type (e.g., copper, silver, and gold coins all appearing as silver) on the economy window. --[[User:Keizo|Keizo]]

Just got the dwarven economy started for the first time. The game is a bit tricky to play in wine. ^^;;. Anyway, since there isn't any page here yet, I'm sort of lost, so I've added what I already know so other folks will be at least a *little* less lost :-P

Typically a page will be expanded a lot more quickly if you actually already have some content on it,.Please expand! --[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] 19:48, 1 December 2007 (EST)

None of my legendary dwarves have an account in their status screen.
Does this mean that they are exempt from prices or something?--[[User:Pigbuster|Pigbuster]]
:They always have been.--[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 01:05, 6 December 2007 (EST)

== Wages ==

What is the deal with "- haulage being a major exception - "? Last time I checked there were some wages for item hauling, furniture hauling, food hauling,... on the in-game {{key|j}}{{key|m}}{{key|w}} wages info page. Of course a dwarf can spend a month hauling a rock to a stockpile and get his 1* for it, but a job of taking food from a stockpile and relocating it to an adjacent stockpile can yield a dwarf dozens of * in quite small period of time. Place 10-20 medium sized stockpiles accepting all furniture in a line and set them to take from each other in chain so that the first small stockpile is the closest to your workshops and your last large main furniture stockpile is the closest to your currently furnishing rooms. Watch your haulers' bank accounts sky-rocket.--[[User:Another|Another]] 05:24, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Who and whern/how can change wages percentage on first "Wages" screen? It's always 100% for me--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 06:53, 14 February 2008 (EST)
:one of the nobles can, but rarely does so (bookkeeper?)

== Soldiers ==
Will the soldiers pay for getting armor or weapons?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:10, 11 January 2008 (EST)
:No, they don't own them.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:11, 11 January 2008 (EST)

== No Coin Economy==

How does an economy work without any coins? Do they use pretend money or something?
:Every dfwarf starts an account in DwarfEcoBanc, and is always carrying his/her credit card. But if you will be stupid enough to give them money (like I did last time), they would prefer to use money instead of card. In case you don't get it: you don't want them to use money, really.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:59, 21 January 2008 (EST)

:It works just the same as in the Real Life. As opposed to the economy of the old, when coins were units of precious metals, with real actual value attached to them, currently all money is created as a credit from the central bank (which is paid by taking a new credit). Dwarves get credit from you for work they do, and you can pay it back by providing them with goods other dwarves produced (for another credit). For coins, you must mint actual metal. For going into infinite debt, you don't need anything, and you can never run out of it (gold bars go down to zero, debt goes to minus infinity). But without inflation, it doesn't really hurt in the long run like it does in the Real Life.

== How is this a feature? ==
I dig the realism and all, but the only effect the economy has had on my fortress is that my hard working dwarves now can't afford the rooms they've been sleeping in for the past ten years, while my nobles and champions (junta?) live in solid gold mansions. I went straight to the .ini and turned economy off. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 18:49, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:Yeah, well, the pricing of those rooms doesn't work by supply and demand for some reason, they have fixed cost. But still I kind of like the idea of an economy, and it seems a bit odd to "strongly recommend" that you shouldn't mint coins etc. I haven't even seen them hauling any of those coins. --[[User:Magirot|Magirot]] 09:18, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

It's ironic that without coins, the economy actives better. Kinda like using credit cards instead of coins (Maybe a hint to the government to stop making coins?!) --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:17, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Economy Trigger(s) ==
We know what triggers the economy, but what does having an active economy trigger? The most obvious is nobles, but there are a couple other things I've noticed. First, whether it's related to the economy or not, my only fortress that's ever been under siege has had an active economy, while my others that only get random goblin attacks did not. Likewise that fortress is my only fortress that has gotten megabeast attacks. It may or may not be related, as most of my fortresses before it didn't get as big as it is. (80 or so highest vs 110) --[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 22:09, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
:Both of sieges in my current fortress (40c) were prior to the economy starting, so I don't think the economy is causal. I think it has to do with population and wealth. More dwarves attract more attention and the pickings are better with more wealth. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:02, 8 September 2008 (EDT)
I don't believe its a trigger for anything. My current fortress has been besieged five times and attacked by a Dragon. All this happened before I unlocked the economy.--[[User:Max Dougwell|Max Dougwell]] 07:08, 3 December 2008 (EST)

::as soon as i got my economy up and running, i had my first siege, then my first (ever) megabeast attack straight after. similar to Eurytus, it's never happened in any of my other fortresses (only one siege prior to these two attacks, in a different fortress).
::however, i will add that in the year before, i was producing native platinum statues, increasing the fortress wealth considerably (native platinum = 120, native platinum statues = 3k), so what's the formula for it? is it:
Wealth = Attacks?
Economy = Attacks?
Wealth = Economy = Attacks? or maybe
Wealth = Attacks + Economy?

== Starving ==
"Dwarves will not starve because they cannot buy food; they just choose whatever's cheapest." - Is this true? It seems that dwarves whitout money die from either hunger or thirst. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 14:16, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

:I do believe eg plump helmets are 1* per unit, they only need to move a couple rocks ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 10:30, 20 June 2008 (EDT)

== Setting economy to NO (ini file) stop immigration ? ==

Hello, because I really dont like economy (I want to assign bed manually !), I've desactivated it in the .ini files... but now, I haven't receive any migrants for 2 years, and my population is slowly reducing 'cause of the accidentals death.
Anyone know if desactiving the economy (just before the arrival of the baron which trigger economy) also desactive immigration ?

Again, sorry for my imperfect english. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 08:59, 26 April 2008 (EDT)
:caravan reports summon migrants, large numbers of deaths or lack of wealth stop it

== Childrens' accounts ==

"Normal" children are really wealthy - they sleep in rooms for nobles, eat roasts and buy golden things. I heard that they have combined wealth of their both parents. It's pretty crazy.
On the other hand noble children... My baroness has a son, who has 3 (yes, 3) monies on his account...
Isn't it really strange? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 06:52, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
:His parents has no money, really. So, he has only three pennies he got hardworking in the fields, harvesting...--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:04, 16 June 2008 (EDT)
It appears Legendary Dwarves still get paid, despite being able to take whatever they please. My child of two Legendary Dwarves has 256 in her account. Either that or she's doing odd jobs when I'm not watching.--[[User:Max Dougwell|Max Dougwell]] 07:13, 3 December 2008 (EST)

::That may be leftover from before the parents were legendary. I've seen children of two legendary dwarves maintain a constant or decreasing cash supply following the ascension of the second parent to legendary, despite abundant in-profession work for both parents which should rapidly provide a huge influx of cash. I can only conclude legendary dwarves no longer earn money. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:47, 29 December 2008 (EST)

:::They don't need money, they're exempt from the economy. Also, the children of nobles NOT BEING NOBLES THEMSELVES can create the amusing situation of the baron's son dying of hunger, if you keep churning out *plump helmet roast*s.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 06:16, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

== Necessary for nobles? ==

It's currently not very clear whether or not the economy needs to be enabled in order for nobles to continue arriving. For instance, the hammerer, barons, etc. Is there any confirmed knowledge of which nobles will or won't come depending on whether or not the economy is enabled in the init file? [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 22:09, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

:All right, a friend of mine just confirmed through play that such nobles, even the tax collector, will still come even with the economy disabled. He's got a count (and consort), hammerer, tax collector, dungeon master, and philosopher (at least those are the ones I know of). [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 04:25, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

== Effects of turning it off, once it's on? ==

Changing ECONOMY to NO in the init.txt file after the economy has kicked in doesn't seem to keep dwarves from spending already-earned credit at shops. (I haven't seen them paying for drink, so it may be that food and drink are now free; I'm not sure, though, because I haven't yet watched them pay for drinks while the economy is turned on, so I don't know when that happens.) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 17:00, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

== Effect of turning it on, once it's off? ==

If you turn the economy off and get the tax collector, baron, etc... what happens when you turn it back on? Does the economy start back up, or do you only get one shot at it? I don't think I want the economy but if I miss the opportunity to ever turn it on, then it becomes a tough choice. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 02:22, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Tips for living with economy? ==

I just read a suggestion on the forum, and was going to add it to a list of economy-survival tips, but there doesn't seem to be one. [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=29016.msg373478#msg373478 here's the forum post]. Shouldn't there be such a page? [[User:Solarshado|Solarshado]] 21:57, 25 December 2008 (EST)
:There's a couple tricks for this. The casino mentioned there, triangle stockpiles (3 stone stockpiles that are all taking from eachother, making constant hauling work), etc. However, everything like this is classifiable as an exploit since if you put it in the context of an actual economy it would cause gigantic economic inflation and currency devaluation almost overnight. Really that's all you're doing with techniques like this; you're devaluing what a single ☼ means until it's basically nothing, and taking advantage of the fact that the DF engine doesn't currently have a way to adjust for inflation.

:Really, living with economy in a legit, as-intended manner is just making sure there are enough meaningful jobs to do. Growing [[dimple cup]]s and starting a dyeing attachment to a fully blown clothing industry can employ dozens of dwarves around the clock using only the caravans as resources (for importing cloth and the appropriate volume). Skilled work like sewing clothes, dying cloth, sewing leather/cloth images, etc all give 20☼ or more for a single job. A dwarf can afford a very nice apartment and very nice food, with enough money left over to go shopping, if they have a skilled-labor job to do.

:Alternatively, you can just provide a way to become legendary easily. Screw pumps connected to nothing will make Pump Operators legendary pretty quickly, especially if other duties are minimized.

:Anyway, it might be worth adding this as a few notes, but I'm not sure there's enough to say to make a full section about it. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 23:03, 25 December 2008 (EST)

::Its hard to talk about exploiting an economy which actually operates under an absolute theory of value rather than supply and demand. Once you assume an absolute theory of value as your model of economics, inflation simply cannot exist and the concept doesn't even make sense.

::Ie, meaningless hauling jobs -> inflation is only an exploit if the price of goods fluctuates because of supply and demand. Or you can just look at it as making dwarves do non-productive wage-paying jobs compensates for the unavoidable 'exploit' that is the stupidity of there being abundantly available rooms of quality X remaining at a stupidly high value instead of having their price become more affordable in the absence of sufficient demand for them at their current price.

::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:44, 29 December 2008 (EST)
:::This is exactly what makes it an exploit. If the system took into account inflation and supply and demand, then this would not be an exploit. The fact that it does not count these things means that the infinite hauling jobs pay out pleanty of cash while achieving no net bennefit to the community, but are still not effecting the value of money. :P It is like turning your dwarven colony into a welfare state without the economic drawbacks! [[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 20:39, 11 February 2009 (EST)

::::No. Ok, lets be perfectly clear here, while there have been many theories about what creates value, the real economic model has always been supply and demand in the real world. You have just at various times had people pretending that other things were true (and generally not those whose business involved intimate interaction with said economy, who have always understood how supply effects price, if nothing else). So in the real world when you try to pretend something wrong is true there are horrible consequences.
::::Enter DF, which specifically institutes as a law of nature a theory of value totally at odds with supply and demand. Given the existence of that Truth of the DF world, nothing involving it can be an exploit because it does not and cannot behave like any real economy. Fact: DF posits a world with an absolute theory of value. Fact: given an absolute theory of value, pulling a lever really does have a set value even if pulling it accomplishes nothing - because the act of pulling that lever has been defined by the laws of nature as being worth a particular set amount. That action has an absolute value, just like every other action.
::::What it comes down to is the DF theory of value is *stupid*. However, all these exploits are actually such a thing working exactly as intended, its just the intention is stupid. But as such its not an exploit - an exploit requires something working differently than intended. The moment you assume an absolute theory of value, you necessarily intend for things like this to happen.
::::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 04:25, 14 February 2009 (EST)
:::::It's an ALPHA. The entire game engine is just a placeholder. Nothing can be taken as cannon at this stage. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:48, 25 February 2009 (EST)
::::::....I'm confused. Are you saying its an exploit because sometime later the design of the economy might change and lever pulling for cash would be an exploit of some presumed future system? That would make every use of the current economy an exploit. When the economic engine is fixed, if it is fixed, then doing the listed 'exploits' won't even be possible. Yes, my position is that an economic engine is impossible to exploit, because its rules are necessarily the rules its implemented to use.
::::::But there's no evidence that any change is coming. Not that i've read every feature goal and power goal, but i don't recall incorporating a supply-demand system is on Toadyone's list of priorities at all. And the fact that its an alpha just means he isn't done implementing what he considers basic features, according to his own design plan.
::::::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 04:15, 26 February 2009 (EST)

== Are there any profits? ==
Is there any reason NOT to turn economy off, other than the extra challenge it creates (plus happy thoughts from shopping for those who can afford that)?
It looks that the original communism the Dwarves start with, serves them much better, especially that there seems to be little special profit from very happy dwarves, while there's a lot of trouble for the unhappy ones, and economy seems to create more of both extremes.
Also, slaughtering of the noble or the tax collector won't reverse to the no-economy, will it?
[[User:Sharp|Sharp]] 11:43, 26 January 2009 (EST)

:How can there be profit in a system of absolute values? What do you mean by 'profit'? The only profit in the game is the value added by labor, which isn't really profit but the value of the labor itself. Basically, the game operates under some rather strange economic assumptions (an unholy marriage of the labor theory of value and mercantilism). So no, there is absolutely no benefit to the dwarven economy, especially as its hardly worth the name economy. (Economics is about differential rarity and preferences, neither of which the game's economic engine takes into account). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:17, 27 January 2009 (EST)
::I think you misunderstood me, I didn't mean "Profit" by economic meaning, I meant "changes in the mechanics of the game the player benefits from", "Profit" as opposed to "Trouble". [[User:Sharp|Sharp]] 13:05, 27 January 2009 (EST)
: You mean benefits? Extra complexity and [[fun|challenge]], of course! You get shops, coins with value, and an answer to the question, "My dwarves are all happy, what do I do now?" I have it disabled in the .ini, like any sane dwarfmaster. Oh wait, that's a contradiction in terms. But I still have my Baron->Count->Duchess and my Incoming King (pop limit 140). --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 06:12, 12 February 2009 (EST)

==Fake Deaths==

Toady should add a mechanic where a brewer pretends to kill himself in a pub fire to claim the insurance cos he can't afford a room.--[[User:Warlordzephyr|Warlordzephyr]] 16:29, 24 February 2009 (EST)

:Affordable life insurance couldn't possibly exist in a Dwarf Fortress. They die too easily. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 17:11, 24 February 2009 (EST)
::Affordable life insurance. Classic. oh, this place cracks me up...--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:51, 25 February 2009 (EST)
:::In Dwarf Fortress, affordable life insurance is an [[artifact]] [[adamantium]] [[flail]]. --[[User:Jurph|Jurph]] 01:50, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
::::One word: Magma--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 06:29, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Dwarven economy

2009-04-19T06:16:03Z

Zipdog: /* Childrens' accounts */

40d Talk:Fortress defense

2009-04-19T06:11:29Z

Zipdog: /* Armed Civilians */

i ve seen discussions bout "moats/pits" here and there - why not simply use an empty channel? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 11:07, 6 March 2008 (EST)

Style, mostly. Well, that and an empty channel isn't deadly to anyone falling into it (Which can happen on occasion in a big bunch of enemies.) For most things, though, an empty channel backed by a wall to prevent projectile fire is sufficient. --[[User:Erom|Erom]] 13:44, 6 March 2008 (EST)

== Planning for building destroyers ==

So, apart from doors (and things like workshops) what can a building destroyer monster break through? Do I have to worry about a [[magma man]] breaking through the wall grate filter in my magma supply, or a [[troll]] busting through my arrow slits (= fortifications)? [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:59, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:I've seen them destroy ballistas, statues and hatch covers. They probably can destroy anything that can be built. --[[User:Bouchart|Bouchart]] 13:10, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

I got a [[bronze colossus]] to play with and did some testing. (They really do regenerate quickly!)

Things destroyed:
*iron/steel/stone doors (gone)
*stone wall grate (gone)
*trade depot (deconstructed into rough stones)
*glass statues (deconstructed only, they were sitting next to where they were installed; game says "toppled")
*vertical steel bars (deconstructed only; "toppled")

Things not destroyed:
*constructed or carved walls and fortifications (ignored)
*rope (for holding guard dogs; it walked right over)
*drawbridge (walked across; ignored while up)

Science! [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 12:04, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

: I was under the impression that a bronze colossus would destroy constructed walls/fortifications if they are the only way to get to dwarves. This is also claimed in the unpolished [[fortifications]] page. Is that true? --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:40, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

== Armed Civilians ==
I tried the armed civilian stuff, but an unfortunate side effect is that hunters seem to sleep anywhere except in their beds. Also the forums suggest giving 'fake' woodcutting or mining jobs so that civilians carry pick-axes or battle-axes. This does not address the armor issue, though. --[[User:Aykavil|Aykavil]] 10:35, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
:I'd add that it's possible to be mistaken about having no wildlife to hunt! Not all wildlife is present when you embark, there's some random appearances of things like macaques from the edge of the map. It doesn't have to be MUCH wildlife to be disruptive to this plan, either. Ever see 13 dwarves hunting one alligator, with maces? Gah. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 00:57, 21 December 2008 (EST)!
::It is true that wildlife constantly changes, but it is possible to have no ''huntable'' wildlife. On a beach map, I had several roving schools of cod. Nothing else. Just lots and lots of cod. I have tried to kill some of them, but so far I have gotten nothing but cod on that map.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 06:11, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

==Use of User Names in Defense Designs==
May I suggest we not use them. Sure, someone may have been the first one to propose it on the wiki, but that doesn't mean others haven't thought about it before (in the case of the trapped chained animal somewhere away from your fort, I know I've seen that on the forums before, and its identical to the 'Roach Motel' from [[Defense guide]]), and it doesn't mean that you're some kind of genius to have thought of it.

Its not like I haven't provided novel suggestions (including on this page), but it seems wrong to lay claim to them. A lot of it has to do with understanding how the game works and the solutions proceed logically from that.

As such, I am removing usernames from the subsection titles. I don't feel they're appropriate. If people disagree, lets discuss it here, but the wiki is not about self-aggrandizement, its about providing information about what works and what doesn't. Who first wrote about it on the wiki shouldn't be relevant. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 17:54, 22 December 2008 (EST)

:I wouldn't have put my name if others weren't already there for ages. Nor did I ever think any of the names were really laying claim to inventing these things. I don't give a damn if my name's there or not, and accusing me of self-aggrandizement is a little rude. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 19:43, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::Sidestepping the issue of accusations, I agree with Squirrelloid that names are best left off article pages. It interferes with collaborative writing that is the core of the wiki model -- you can't freely rewrite what someone else has written if it says "I wrote and/or designed this".--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:00, 22 December 2008 (EST)

::I did not specifically call you out Corona nor did I speculate on any particular poster's motives. I can see how you may have necessarily read my comment as implying such, however, and I apologize for that. Peace? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:37, 29 December 2008 (EST)

:Further vote of agreement on [[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]]'s action. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 00:36, 24 December 2008 (EST)

:Even more agreement. Barring outstanding complaint, we'll stick with this modified version. --[[User:LucienSadi|LucienSadi]] 06:39, 25 December 2008 (EST)

40d Talk:Dwarven economy

2009-04-17T00:01:32Z

Zipdog: /* Childrens' accounts */

1) Wages paid --- dwarves gain credit for tasks completed. Credit is either maintained or transferred into physical value when the dwarf in question claims coins.

2) Rent --- bedrooms have a rent assigned to them based on their room value. The rent schedule is unknown. How the dwarves physically pay the rent is unknown. If a dwarf cannot pay the rent an eviction notice is placed on the room. The specifics of eviction are unknown. Dwarves that cannot afford one of the available bedrooms will sleep in available barracks.

3) Shops --- Once the economy begins, shops may be constructed. There are several types of shops - clothing, general goods, exotic clothing and possibly others. A type of shop may not be specified; it seems to be selected randomly. Shops have an associated cost, which is assumed to be paid by the dwarf that takes control of the shop. Once a shop is owned, items will be moved to the shop corresponding to which type of shop it is. Dwarves then may buy items for the shop, presumably using the same credit system that may or may not correspond to actual physical coins.

4) Item cost - all physical items are given a cost, whether for sale or in a shop. It is unknown if dwarves pay a cost for an item picked up that was not for sale in a shop.

also - kids have combined wealth of their parents, which can lead to paris hilton-syndrome in DF - children with wealth of several thousand buying out the noble/admin rooms and owning shops filled with =giant cave spider silk dress= --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 04:07, 20 November 2007 (EST)

----

It seems that the dwarven economy is now triggered by the coming of a Baron /Baroness. I haven't seen it for myself but it's what I gather from the forums. There also seems to be a bug where all coins minted appear as the same coin type (e.g., copper, silver, and gold coins all appearing as silver) on the economy window. --[[User:Keizo|Keizo]]

Just got the dwarven economy started for the first time. The game is a bit tricky to play in wine. ^^;;. Anyway, since there isn't any page here yet, I'm sort of lost, so I've added what I already know so other folks will be at least a *little* less lost :-P

Typically a page will be expanded a lot more quickly if you actually already have some content on it,.Please expand! --[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] 19:48, 1 December 2007 (EST)

None of my legendary dwarves have an account in their status screen.
Does this mean that they are exempt from prices or something?--[[User:Pigbuster|Pigbuster]]
:They always have been.--[[User:Heliopios|Heliopios]] 01:05, 6 December 2007 (EST)

== Wages ==

What is the deal with "- haulage being a major exception - "? Last time I checked there were some wages for item hauling, furniture hauling, food hauling,... on the in-game {{key|j}}{{key|m}}{{key|w}} wages info page. Of course a dwarf can spend a month hauling a rock to a stockpile and get his 1* for it, but a job of taking food from a stockpile and relocating it to an adjacent stockpile can yield a dwarf dozens of * in quite small period of time. Place 10-20 medium sized stockpiles accepting all furniture in a line and set them to take from each other in chain so that the first small stockpile is the closest to your workshops and your last large main furniture stockpile is the closest to your currently furnishing rooms. Watch your haulers' bank accounts sky-rocket.--[[User:Another|Another]] 05:24, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Who and whern/how can change wages percentage on first "Wages" screen? It's always 100% for me--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 06:53, 14 February 2008 (EST)
:one of the nobles can, but rarely does so (bookkeeper?)

== Soldiers ==
Will the soldiers pay for getting armor or weapons?--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:10, 11 January 2008 (EST)
:No, they don't own them.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:11, 11 January 2008 (EST)

== No Coin Economy==

How does an economy work without any coins? Do they use pretend money or something?
:Every dfwarf starts an account in DwarfEcoBanc, and is always carrying his/her credit card. But if you will be stupid enough to give them money (like I did last time), they would prefer to use money instead of card. In case you don't get it: you don't want them to use money, really.--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 23:59, 21 January 2008 (EST)

:It works just the same as in the Real Life. As opposed to the economy of the old, when coins were units of precious metals, with real actual value attached to them, currently all money is created as a credit from the central bank (which is paid by taking a new credit). Dwarves get credit from you for work they do, and you can pay it back by providing them with goods other dwarves produced (for another credit). For coins, you must mint actual metal. For going into infinite debt, you don't need anything, and you can never run out of it (gold bars go down to zero, debt goes to minus infinity). But without inflation, it doesn't really hurt in the long run like it does in the Real Life.

== How is this a feature? ==
I dig the realism and all, but the only effect the economy has had on my fortress is that my hard working dwarves now can't afford the rooms they've been sleeping in for the past ten years, while my nobles and champions (junta?) live in solid gold mansions. I went straight to the .ini and turned economy off. [[User:Ripheus|Ripheus]] 18:49, 6 March 2008 (EST)
:Yeah, well, the pricing of those rooms doesn't work by supply and demand for some reason, they have fixed cost. But still I kind of like the idea of an economy, and it seems a bit odd to "strongly recommend" that you shouldn't mint coins etc. I haven't even seen them hauling any of those coins. --[[User:Magirot|Magirot]] 09:18, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

It's ironic that without coins, the economy actives better. Kinda like using credit cards instead of coins (Maybe a hint to the government to stop making coins?!) --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:17, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Economy Trigger(s) ==
We know what triggers the economy, but what does having an active economy trigger? The most obvious is nobles, but there are a couple other things I've noticed. First, whether it's related to the economy or not, my only fortress that's ever been under siege has had an active economy, while my others that only get random goblin attacks did not. Likewise that fortress is my only fortress that has gotten megabeast attacks. It may or may not be related, as most of my fortresses before it didn't get as big as it is. (80 or so highest vs 110) --[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 22:09, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
:Both of sieges in my current fortress (40c) were prior to the economy starting, so I don't think the economy is causal. I think it has to do with population and wealth. More dwarves attract more attention and the pickings are better with more wealth. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:02, 8 September 2008 (EDT)
I don't believe its a trigger for anything. My current fortress has been besieged five times and attacked by a Dragon. All this happened before I unlocked the economy.--[[User:Max Dougwell|Max Dougwell]] 07:08, 3 December 2008 (EST)

::as soon as i got my economy up and running, i had my first siege, then my first (ever) megabeast attack straight after. similar to Eurytus, it's never happened in any of my other fortresses (only one siege prior to these two attacks, in a different fortress).
::however, i will add that in the year before, i was producing native platinum statues, increasing the fortress wealth considerably (native platinum = 120, native platinum statues = 3k), so what's the formula for it? is it:
Wealth = Attacks?
Economy = Attacks?
Wealth = Economy = Attacks? or maybe
Wealth = Attacks + Economy?

== Starving ==
"Dwarves will not starve because they cannot buy food; they just choose whatever's cheapest." - Is this true? It seems that dwarves whitout money die from either hunger or thirst. --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 14:16, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

:I do believe eg plump helmets are 1* per unit, they only need to move a couple rocks ;) --[[User:Frostedfire|Frostedfire]] 10:30, 20 June 2008 (EDT)

== Setting economy to NO (ini file) stop immigration ? ==

Hello, because I really dont like economy (I want to assign bed manually !), I've desactivated it in the .ini files... but now, I haven't receive any migrants for 2 years, and my population is slowly reducing 'cause of the accidentals death.
Anyone know if desactiving the economy (just before the arrival of the baron which trigger economy) also desactive immigration ?

Again, sorry for my imperfect english. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 08:59, 26 April 2008 (EDT)
:caravan reports summon migrants, large numbers of deaths or lack of wealth stop it

== Childrens' accounts ==

"Normal" children are really wealthy - they sleep in rooms for nobles, eat roasts and buy golden things. I heard that they have combined wealth of their both parents. It's pretty crazy.
On the other hand noble children... My baroness has a son, who has 3 (yes, 3) monies on his account...
Isn't it really strange? --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 06:52, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
:His parents has no money, really. So, he has only three pennies he got hardworking in the fields, harvesting...--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]] 05:04, 16 June 2008 (EDT)
It appears Legendary Dwarves still get paid, despite being able to take whatever they please. My child of two Legendary Dwarves has 256 in her account. Either that or she's doing odd jobs when I'm not watching.--[[User:Max Dougwell|Max Dougwell]] 07:13, 3 December 2008 (EST)

::That may be leftover from before the parents were legendary. I've seen children of two legendary dwarves maintain a constant or decreasing cash supply following the ascension of the second parent to legendary, despite abundant in-profession work for both parents which should rapidly provide a huge influx of cash. I can only conclude legendary dwarves no longer earn money. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:47, 29 December 2008 (EST)

:::They don't need money, they're exempt from the economy. Also, the children of nobles NOT BEING NOBLES THEMSELVES can create the amusing situation of the baron's son dying of hunger, if you keep churning out *plump helmet roast*s.

== Necessary for nobles? ==

It's currently not very clear whether or not the economy needs to be enabled in order for nobles to continue arriving. For instance, the hammerer, barons, etc. Is there any confirmed knowledge of which nobles will or won't come depending on whether or not the economy is enabled in the init file? [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 22:09, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

:All right, a friend of mine just confirmed through play that such nobles, even the tax collector, will still come even with the economy disabled. He's got a count (and consort), hammerer, tax collector, dungeon master, and philosopher (at least those are the ones I know of). [[User:G-Flex|G-Flex]] 04:25, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

== Effects of turning it off, once it's on? ==

Changing ECONOMY to NO in the init.txt file after the economy has kicked in doesn't seem to keep dwarves from spending already-earned credit at shops. (I haven't seen them paying for drink, so it may be that food and drink are now free; I'm not sure, though, because I haven't yet watched them pay for drinks while the economy is turned on, so I don't know when that happens.) --[[User:Sev|Sev]] 17:00, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

== Effect of turning it on, once it's off? ==

If you turn the economy off and get the tax collector, baron, etc... what happens when you turn it back on? Does the economy start back up, or do you only get one shot at it? I don't think I want the economy but if I miss the opportunity to ever turn it on, then it becomes a tough choice. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 02:22, 27 November 2008 (EST)

== Tips for living with economy? ==

I just read a suggestion on the forum, and was going to add it to a list of economy-survival tips, but there doesn't seem to be one. [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=29016.msg373478#msg373478 here's the forum post]. Shouldn't there be such a page? [[User:Solarshado|Solarshado]] 21:57, 25 December 2008 (EST)
:There's a couple tricks for this. The casino mentioned there, triangle stockpiles (3 stone stockpiles that are all taking from eachother, making constant hauling work), etc. However, everything like this is classifiable as an exploit since if you put it in the context of an actual economy it would cause gigantic economic inflation and currency devaluation almost overnight. Really that's all you're doing with techniques like this; you're devaluing what a single ☼ means until it's basically nothing, and taking advantage of the fact that the DF engine doesn't currently have a way to adjust for inflation.

:Really, living with economy in a legit, as-intended manner is just making sure there are enough meaningful jobs to do. Growing [[dimple cup]]s and starting a dyeing attachment to a fully blown clothing industry can employ dozens of dwarves around the clock using only the caravans as resources (for importing cloth and the appropriate volume). Skilled work like sewing clothes, dying cloth, sewing leather/cloth images, etc all give 20☼ or more for a single job. A dwarf can afford a very nice apartment and very nice food, with enough money left over to go shopping, if they have a skilled-labor job to do.

:Alternatively, you can just provide a way to become legendary easily. Screw pumps connected to nothing will make Pump Operators legendary pretty quickly, especially if other duties are minimized.

:Anyway, it might be worth adding this as a few notes, but I'm not sure there's enough to say to make a full section about it. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 23:03, 25 December 2008 (EST)

::Its hard to talk about exploiting an economy which actually operates under an absolute theory of value rather than supply and demand. Once you assume an absolute theory of value as your model of economics, inflation simply cannot exist and the concept doesn't even make sense.

::Ie, meaningless hauling jobs -> inflation is only an exploit if the price of goods fluctuates because of supply and demand. Or you can just look at it as making dwarves do non-productive wage-paying jobs compensates for the unavoidable 'exploit' that is the stupidity of there being abundantly available rooms of quality X remaining at a stupidly high value instead of having their price become more affordable in the absence of sufficient demand for them at their current price.

::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 05:44, 29 December 2008 (EST)
:::This is exactly what makes it an exploit. If the system took into account inflation and supply and demand, then this would not be an exploit. The fact that it does not count these things means that the infinite hauling jobs pay out pleanty of cash while achieving no net bennefit to the community, but are still not effecting the value of money. :P It is like turning your dwarven colony into a welfare state without the economic drawbacks! [[User:Burlingk|Burlingk]] 20:39, 11 February 2009 (EST)

::::No. Ok, lets be perfectly clear here, while there have been many theories about what creates value, the real economic model has always been supply and demand in the real world. You have just at various times had people pretending that other things were true (and generally not those whose business involved intimate interaction with said economy, who have always understood how supply effects price, if nothing else). So in the real world when you try to pretend something wrong is true there are horrible consequences.
::::Enter DF, which specifically institutes as a law of nature a theory of value totally at odds with supply and demand. Given the existence of that Truth of the DF world, nothing involving it can be an exploit because it does not and cannot behave like any real economy. Fact: DF posits a world with an absolute theory of value. Fact: given an absolute theory of value, pulling a lever really does have a set value even if pulling it accomplishes nothing - because the act of pulling that lever has been defined by the laws of nature as being worth a particular set amount. That action has an absolute value, just like every other action.
::::What it comes down to is the DF theory of value is *stupid*. However, all these exploits are actually such a thing working exactly as intended, its just the intention is stupid. But as such its not an exploit - an exploit requires something working differently than intended. The moment you assume an absolute theory of value, you necessarily intend for things like this to happen.
::::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 04:25, 14 February 2009 (EST)
:::::It's an ALPHA. The entire game engine is just a placeholder. Nothing can be taken as cannon at this stage. --[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:48, 25 February 2009 (EST)
::::::....I'm confused. Are you saying its an exploit because sometime later the design of the economy might change and lever pulling for cash would be an exploit of some presumed future system? That would make every use of the current economy an exploit. When the economic engine is fixed, if it is fixed, then doing the listed 'exploits' won't even be possible. Yes, my position is that an economic engine is impossible to exploit, because its rules are necessarily the rules its implemented to use.
::::::But there's no evidence that any change is coming. Not that i've read every feature goal and power goal, but i don't recall incorporating a supply-demand system is on Toadyone's list of priorities at all. And the fact that its an alpha just means he isn't done implementing what he considers basic features, according to his own design plan.
::::::--[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 04:15, 26 February 2009 (EST)

== Are there any profits? ==
Is there any reason NOT to turn economy off, other than the extra challenge it creates (plus happy thoughts from shopping for those who can afford that)?
It looks that the original communism the Dwarves start with, serves them much better, especially that there seems to be little special profit from very happy dwarves, while there's a lot of trouble for the unhappy ones, and economy seems to create more of both extremes.
Also, slaughtering of the noble or the tax collector won't reverse to the no-economy, will it?
[[User:Sharp|Sharp]] 11:43, 26 January 2009 (EST)

:How can there be profit in a system of absolute values? What do you mean by 'profit'? The only profit in the game is the value added by labor, which isn't really profit but the value of the labor itself. Basically, the game operates under some rather strange economic assumptions (an unholy marriage of the labor theory of value and mercantilism). So no, there is absolutely no benefit to the dwarven economy, especially as its hardly worth the name economy. (Economics is about differential rarity and preferences, neither of which the game's economic engine takes into account). --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 01:17, 27 January 2009 (EST)
::I think you misunderstood me, I didn't mean "Profit" by economic meaning, I meant "changes in the mechanics of the game the player benefits from", "Profit" as opposed to "Trouble". [[User:Sharp|Sharp]] 13:05, 27 January 2009 (EST)
: You mean benefits? Extra complexity and [[fun|challenge]], of course! You get shops, coins with value, and an answer to the question, "My dwarves are all happy, what do I do now?" I have it disabled in the .ini, like any sane dwarfmaster. Oh wait, that's a contradiction in terms. But I still have my Baron->Count->Duchess and my Incoming King (pop limit 140). --[[User:Jellyfishgreen|Jellyfishgreen]] 06:12, 12 February 2009 (EST)

==Fake Deaths==

Toady should add a mechanic where a brewer pretends to kill himself in a pub fire to claim the insurance cos he can't afford a room.--[[User:Warlordzephyr|Warlordzephyr]] 16:29, 24 February 2009 (EST)

:Affordable life insurance couldn't possibly exist in a Dwarf Fortress. They die too easily. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 17:11, 24 February 2009 (EST)
::Affordable life insurance. Classic. oh, this place cracks me up...--[[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 17:51, 25 February 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Fire man

2009-04-15T23:25:09Z

Zipdog:

They have the tag [nobreathe]. Do they actually drown? The alternate method of fighting them with drowning rooms doesn't seem like it would work. Do stone fall traps work? I've captured one so I guess I can experiment. I just thought my experiments might go quicker if someone already knew. So far the fire man is doing just fine being underwater. It's fellow cellmates (goblins) all drown (and were beaten badly by the fire man as they drown) & the water level in there is 7/7. [[User:AmisiBastet|AmisiBastet]] 21:12, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:The tag <tt>[NOBREATHE]</tt> means that the creature does not need to breathe - all lava-swimming entities need this to be able to traverse the entire tube. Otherwise they'd drown. So they won't drown. Also, there is no strangling a creature with <tt>[NOBREATHE]</tt>, nor can you make it winded by puncturing its lungs. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:59, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Thanks! Oh! And the stone-fall trap killed the fire man. --[[User:AmisiBastet|AmisiBastet]] 23:02, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

I am a little confused about the fourth step in stopping fire men from attacking smelters. Could someone put up a diagram of how the walls should "box in the lava squares?"--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 23:25, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Wound

2009-04-14T05:22:56Z

Zipdog: /* Dismembered Dwarves Permanently Bedridden? */ new section

==.33c bug==
My miner had a broken arm and was "resting" even though all he did was move back and forth on the screen and submit to starvation and dehydration. I set a dwarf to Health Care only, had buckets to spare, and nothing was done to care for the dwarf. As far as I'm concerned, in v.33c. Check out the pic below and the [http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-184-restlesswoundedminer movie] I have.

[[Image:Injury.png | none | frame | 500px | Injured dwarf spam.]]
[[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 18:31, 24 November 2007 (EST)

Happened to me too, also v.33c [[User:Klada|Klada]] 23:49, 1 December 2007 (EST)

:This bug has been fixed --[[User:Karlito|Karlito]] 23:50, 1 December 2007 (EST)

same thing is happening to me so i dont think it has... [[User:Twiggie|Twiggie]] 12:54, 7 December 2007 (EST)

:Actually it has, as of 33d. You may need to download a new version. [[User:Klada|Klada]] 13:17, 7 December 2007 (EST)

== Priority of [[health care]] task ==

I think the game is a bit broken in that I can have a dwarf set with [[health care]] (I know it's a redlink) as their only active task, and rather than bring food to a dwarf who seems to only be moderately injured, but is now about to die from starvation - even though there is a stockpile of prepared meals 6 tiles away, and the other dwarves are resting in the same barracks![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:56, 12 February 2008 (EST)

I had a miner who was wounded in a mine collapse lie where he fell for a long time before someone came to pick him up, even after prioritizing that a single peasant would do nothing but Health Care. I had even made sure that the Health Care dwarf had "likes doing stuff for others" in his profile/thoughts. --[[User:FJH|FJH]] 15:40, 25 March 2009 (EST)

== Brown Wounds ==

my legendary miner will not heal his brown wounds he must have been resting for a year now. What should I do? --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 06:54, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

:Well, have you seen where his injury is? It could be a nervous injury, which never heals (see the wound article, its really sad).

== healing speed ==
it seems that in the newest version(.38c) wounds heal at incredible speed - I watched my woodcutter fight batmen and get lightly wounded, was relieved that it was nothing worse, but when I checked back on him he was uninjured. So when my miner took on a wolf I kept a very close eye on him, and indeed he suffered moderate wounds and got a "rest" job, but the wound healed to lightly wounded before he even got back into the fortress and was gone by the time he reached his bed.--[[User:Syndic|Syndic]] 00:30, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
: chances are they have a (very) high toughness? - this will cause exactly what you describe. Send a peasant recruit into battle and you will see the difference ;) --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 07:20, 13 March 2008 (EDT)
::Given that they were miners and woodcutters, they would become tough before they become even [[proficient]] in their trade. As mentioned by Koltom and indeed in the article, toughness has a huge effect both on the impact of being wounded (ie tough dwarves carry on regardless) AND on the rate of healing (they get better before they make it to their bed to rest).[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:24, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
: I only had this once when I started a fortress in a desert without any water resources. Maybe this is a hack to prevent dwarves from dying from thirst? [[User:Qwertyu|Qwertyu]] 05:20, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

I've noticed something similar to this in .40c as well. One of my miners in a new fortress, who was at best merely 'tough' sustained a red injury to his hip which had completely disappeared a few minutes later. The only unusual thing I did was draft all seven dwarves into the army first and then make them civilians after the skeletal goat was dead. I don't think the miner had even made his way to a bed to rest before this miraculous healing.[[User:Extar|Extar]] 16:06, 25 August 2008 (EDT)
: I believe every season there is a chance of a red wound healing. Perhaps he had extraordinarily high toughness and you got lucky? --[[User:Squeegy|Squeegy]] 19:53, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

== Nervous system damage ==

I have a guard with minor neck and brain injuries, so he won't spar any more. However, he is a Talented Hammerdwarf, Skilled Armor User, and Proficient Shield User (only Novice Wrestler), so I reallocated him to use a crossbow and he does infact shoot at the archery range. This could be a good way to improve troops and get Marksdwarves that might be vaguely effective in melee combat should it come to that. He's also already Mighty, Very Agile, and Tough.

I'm thinking of adding the following to the Healing section of this page, at the end of the paragraph starting with "Wounds to the nervous system...":

"A hammerdwarf with light injuries to the nervous system may no longer spar, but will train as a Marksdwarf if allocated to use a crossbow. This can be useful given that a Marksdwarf entering melee combat uses the hammerdwarf skill to bash enemies with their crossbow. They hopefully would have also trained as Wrestlers, Armor Users, and Shield Users which will help their survival rate."

Thoughts? --[[User:TimE|TimE]]

:Seems a bit too niche to be in the article as general advice. Perhaps a generality made from that idea would be appropriate however. something like "dwarves with nervous injuries too severe to be a melee fighter may still be valulable as a Marksdwarf." --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 03:59, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

:: I think this applies to dwarves with ''any'' nervous injuries. I like the concise version though, I'll add that. --[[User:TimE|TimE]] 00:56, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

== Color of Wounds ==
I think that lightly wounded and lopped off are too close of a color. The lopped off color should be pink, a nice bright color with eye attracting color. This way I can tell whether or not to pay attention to that individual.--[[User:CrazyMcfobo|CrazyMcfobo]] 19:44, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:I agree with you on that, try making a topic in the forums about it. Toady might change it.--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 21:18, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

== Spleen, kidney etc. ==

What about spleen, liver, kidneys etc ? Do they belong to "guts" ? [[User:Timst|Timst]] 10:19, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== New version and light wounds ==

The new version and its possibility for messed up temps means that all organs can now be in all states of wounded-ness. That means you can get lightly wounded hearts and guts and lungs... etc.

Note that this is due to extreme frostbite, not heat.

[[User:Logical2u|Logical2u]] 23:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

I've got a war dog with lightly-wounded right lung, left lung, and heart. From combat (with a kobold thief), not from temperature exposure. -[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 19:57, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

== wounded but not resting ==

I have a dwarf who has a yellow head wound and a red upper leg wound. In the {{k|u}} screen he shows as '''No job''', on his wound status screek ({{k|v}}{{k|w}}) he is unconscious, hungry, dehydrated and drowsy.

If he is unconscious then he is not resting. I take it he is not going to trigger any health care jobs: so does this mean he is doomed?
[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 07:29, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:He ended up dying. It seemed inevitable given that becoming unconscious seems to cancel resting.[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 04:28, 1 August 2008 (EDT)
:I have a guard who's doing the same. Red lung wound and he's still trying to make his rounds as a guard. On the other hand, his toughness seems to be high enough that he's not dying from it... He rested when he was initially wounded (sparring) but got up because he was thirsty. He fell unconscious once in the process, but managed to slake his thirst. And then got up and grabbed his equipment. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 21:27, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
::FWIW, this guard lasted two more years limping along with a red lung until he finally died making a suicidal charge during a goblin siege. Îton Koganûker earned himself his own little decorated burial niche for his hardheaded service. Incidentally, I looked back at him and he actually had not toughness mods, so a regular dwarf survived three years with a red lung and might have survived longer if not for the charge. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 12:43, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
:::I have an ex-guard with a red lung injury. He's been that way for about 4 years so is it possible that lungs can't heal? At first he passed out a lot from being winded but after training him up as an engraver to improve his toughness he's able to go about a normal dwarven life. I've had a lot of odd injuries in this fortress; two guys lost both eyes somehow. One of them, a champion, seemed unperturbed by this and went on with his job for about a year until a goblin bowman took him out with a lucky shot. The other was a hunter and spammed up the announcements with "cancelled job: unconcious". He had to be... disposed of. Later, after accidentally releasing a caged titan in my entrance hall, my bone carver got a mangled stomach and lower body. I was preparing for him to die but amazingly he recovered his stomach in a season but it took him a lot longer to heal his other injury. Finally, one of my champions managed to break his lower back while sparring. I've provided him with a nice hospital where he can be looked after for the rest of his days but I fear one day he'll go beserk due to loneliness and boredom. --[[User:Paradigmlost|Paradigmlost]] 19:24, 11 February 2009 (EST)

This is caused by some problem with the bed they are placed on. Removing the bed they are on seems to fix the problem for me everytime it happens. --[[User:Engy|Engy]] 22:46, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== broken leg ==

can a dwarf with a broken leg still get around to work?
:Unfortunately, no. Anything worse then moderately wounded causes the dwarf to go sleep it off until its healed. However, ''eventually'' it will heal up and he can go back to work. --[[User:Toloran|Toloran]] 02:32, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

I have 3 dwarves who are very injured, and seem to be refusing to move, I deactivated their squad status, but none are unconcious, and none of the dwarves at ALL are helping them for some reason, they just keep walking over them, ignoring them.

I have a royal guard with a similar problem. Was wondering if it would ever heal, but I'm starting to think after more than two years that lung injuries also never heal. Mine has at least one level of toughness, though, and the only affect is that he walks slightly slower and flashes the wounded signal at me.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 08:44, 13 December 2008 (EST)

I had a dwarf with a broken leg fall into a strange mood. He got up off his sickbed, limped to a workshop, claimed it, etc. -- all at a fraction of normal dwarf walking speed. He finished the artifact, then went back to his sickbed to finish healing. -[[User:Greycat|Greycat]] 19:55, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

== Broken brain? ==

I just got a kobold trapped in my hall of spiky death, and on its wound list was a yellow(broken) brain. I suppose that means it's going to die very soon, but it seems to be fine to me... --[[User:Cypress|Cypress]] 18:21, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

:It's a kobold. You missed all its vital spots. --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 23:53, 10 December 2008 (EST)

== Blind dwarf suffers nightmares of constant attack ==
I have a dwarf with a lopped off left eye and right eye (and throat? how's he still suffering??) that is convinced that he's still under attack.
He's litterally spamming with over 1000 messages that he's canceling rest: interrupted by goblin crossbowman. In the 200-300 message range it was amusing. At this point, I'm only hoping that he shuts up when another dwarf drags him off to a bed for some rest. [[User:AmisiBastet|AmisiBastet]] 14:29, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
:Put him out of his misery. In style. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 21:43, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
::How? The last of the goblin ambushes for that season shut him up for me. But I don't know how to kill off one of my own dwarves. Well... not intentionally anyway. Especially when he's so busy being unconsious that he's constantly interrupting his rest due to the memory of being shot at by a goblin. I think he got up to about 3000 messages. All his minor wounds healed up too. His head was still mangled (red) with his eyes & throat lopped off (grey). Well, until the goblin finished him off anyway. [[User:AmisiBastet|AmisiBastet]] 22:50, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
:::For future reference, you can kill one of your dwarves off by dropping a constructed floor on him. Thus, it makes some sense to make bedrooms with a way to drop floor tiles on the beds. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 23:32, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Two words: Lava. Failing that, I usually went with GreyMaria's method and just tunnel out over the head of the wounded dwarf, and built/demolished floors atop him until dead. Too bad you can't build on bridges...I'd have an infirmary kept niiice and warm by a lava pit. --[[User:Eddie|Eddie]] 00:47, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
:::::LOL I wish! Poor guy collapsed above ground, about 7 steps away from the entrance to the fortress. And as for dealing with any other dwarves... I've found the lava, but they're pretty stubborn about not wanting to dig anywhere near it anymore. These bunch also seem to be only seasonal-miners too. They practically refuse to dig durring the winter & are reluctant to dig in the fall. Which leaves me to spring & summer for any fortress improvements that don't involve construction or engraving. They like farming and they like engraving. Canceling those tasks doesn't even seem to encourage them to dig. They'd rather sit around with no job than go dig out rooms near the lava. Boy, ya loose 1 dwarf to a random fire-man and the dig designations never get worked on! [[User:AmisiBastet|AmisiBastet]] 00:46, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
::::::The simplest method I've found for silencing Dwarves (Usually to put them out of their misery) is to have the a room of hospital beds connected to a pump with a nearby water source (aquifer or brook, usually). In the event that a dwarf has permanently debilitating wounds, you can simply flood the room. Even a normal door will hold back 7/7 tiles of water, so all you have to do is lock them in to make sure no other dwarves decide to open it. [[User:Xennith|Xennith]] 10:45 AM, 2 March 2009 (PST)
: As fun as it is to off wounded dwarves [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25815.0 this thread on the message board] alleges that destroying the bed may end the message spam. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 17:41, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
:: Thanks for the link. I'd post there but for some odd reason my browsers won't let me register on that forum. I keep getting redirected back to the index. I can't even read the help on registering because that also redirects me back to the index. Regardless, you are correct that in my case the dwarf had not reached a bed. I think in my case it was that the goblin crossbowman that had attacked that dwarf, had later fallen into a cage trap and hadn't been killed (or left the map) yet. I've a bit of a backlog on goblins waiting to use my drowning rooms.

==Animal Wounds==
How fast can animals (e.g. leopards) heal wounds? Because I have a leopard which has minor injuries on the brain, heart, lungs and guts, and I want to use it to guard my fort (i feel like im gonna be sieged soon).--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 08:34, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
:I'm fairly certain animals can only be healed via the animal caretaker labor. I had a cat with a mangled leg for 3 years before it stumbled into a weapon trap full of looted pikes. If the creature isn't assigned to anyone, the dwarf that trained the leopard can caretake it. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:44, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

:I've never studied the mechanics of animal caretaking, but I've gotten the impression that it's a "free" task -- any time your caretaker crosses paths with a wounded animal, the animal has a chance to get better. Try turning on caretaking on all your dwarves. The leopard might need to be uncaged in order for the caretaking to take place.

:But a guardian leopard alone is not going to be enough against a siege. For that, you want at least a dozen wardogs, or a set of traps at least six deep at all entrances (ten deep if they're "mere" stone traps), or some decent marksdwarves -- five or more is best, because at just the wrong moment, half of them will wander off to drink or sleep (or reload). A single champion with top-quality armor and weapon and very high shield user, armor user, and wrestling skills can potentially take out a whole squad by him or herself, but that takes about two or three years worth of sparring (with another champion) and you better hope they don't get spinal injuries or they'll stop training altogether.

:Barring that, use dogs if you got 'em, traps if you don't. And build traps anyway. You can secure a fortress in a couple of months using a couple of mechanics. And you won't get hit by an actual goblin siege until you have 80 dwarves, supposedly, though "ambushes" of about 8 goblins can come much sooner.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:29, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

:Well, I did get sieged, but my army decimated the ugly gobbos before they could even come close (theres a load of blood near the norhern edge now) so the leopard was of no use. Talking of ward dogs, being an idiot, I went and made most of my dogs available for pets before I realised that pets cant be trained. Luckily a pair of stray puppies grew up a day before the siege but the two war dogs which i trained were too slow and the battle was over before they reached. About the animal caretaker, I do have one but he isn't really doing anything about the leopard (and a fox which i also bought from the elves, also with same injuries) --[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 23:51, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
::I'm fairly certain from my experiences that animal caretaking only applies to animals that 'belong' to the caretaker. The only dwarf with any skill in caretaking I've had has been my dungeon master because he has trained over a dozen wardogs that haven't been assigned elsewhere yet. Meanwhile my champions have wardogs and cats that have been mangled for years. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:48, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I've seen animals on chains healed -- by whom, I don't know. It may just be that dwarves are more likely to heal their own pets since said pets are always in their vicinity.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 19:44, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Apparently any caged animal you buy has minor wounds on the brain, heart, lungs and guts. I bought a jaguar, another leopard and a rhesus from the elves and all have the same injuries.--[[User:Stinhad Limarezum|Stinhad Limarezum]] 21:39, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
:::::I bought a black bear cage and it didn't have any wounds, could it be that the elves are traveling through a hostile region to reach your fortress? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:23, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::Are you in a cold region? Maybe they got frostbitten on the trip to the depot.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 11:22, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

*sorry to interrupt*
i have a war dog with a red (mangled?) 'right rear leg' and 'head'. it's been like that for about a year now, crawling aruond the fortress and sitting where it's former master died (with it's/another dog's two puppies, might i add), passing out all the time. will it die soon? infact, shouldnt it be dead already, having a mangled head? (no internal organs seem to be damaged)

== Down, but not Out ==

Something I noticed earlier today: Late in my first winter, one of my dwarves was injured while sparring with swords. His leg was yellow, no blood anywhere to be seen, and he was literally right next to a bed. He would not accept any jobs, wouldn't climb into bed to rest, eat, drink water, and nobody else would help him. He lay on the floor for a few months until he got really dehydrated and fell unconscious. Finally somebody drug him to the bed and is now bringing him water. I also noticed that "He is socially crippled by thoughts that everybody is watching and judging him" in his profile. Too mistrusting of help until he is unable to say no (finally fell unconscious). I'm hoping for a full recovery now that he is accepting help. [[User:KValthaliondil|KValthaliondil]] 18:43, 3 November 2008 (EST)

:I have had this problem too...I think it is bug 360? I lost a legendary wrestler to melancholy from it already, another one is now affected by it -- I hope he collapses and gets dragged to a bed like yours did before he goes insane too.--[[User:Scrotch|Scrotch]] 20:37, 20 January 2009 (EST)

== '' verify '' ==
'' so claiming it may help, as may marking it to be dumped.(verify) '' this most definitely worked, in a most excellent manner. now my most non-non-non-heinous speardwarf can recover. Note that I had to de-forbid it first, and then mark it for dumping. has anyone else had any experience with this? also, I still do not know if he will recover, we will have to wait.--(the most non-heinous)[[User:Destor|Destor]] 21:49, 27 December 2008 (EST)(be excellent to each other)

:this worked for me, too. I also don't know whether he'll recover yet, but the bolt is out of his arm. --[[User:Khummsein|Khummsein]] 01:11, 5 March 2009 (EST)

::Worked all the way. Legendary carpenter was up and running around, eating up all my wood again. Really quickly, too (maybe a month or two game time? This after lying in bed for almost 2 years). --[[User:Khummsein|Khummsein]] 10:08, 6 March 2009 (EST)

:::i'll edit the page accordingly then [[User:Kotekzot|Kotekzot]] 17:31, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

== Dismembered Dwarves Permanently Bedridden? ==

I have a dwarf who got his hand bitten off and his upper and lower body broken. After a year or so he was completely healed, albeit still handless. He still hasn't gotten out of bed, though. Will he ever recover, or is this a bug?--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 05:22, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Miller

2009-04-14T05:01:15Z

Zipdog:

I added that milling always produces items at a 1:1 ratio. Does anyone know what increased miller skill does? Even dabbling millers seem to work very fast, the number of items produced is always the same and there's no quality associated with them. I always use mechanically powered mills so maybe they operate querns faster?
:That would be logical. Powered millstones operate MUCH faster than querns, although I have not paid enough attention to figure out just how much time is saved by using millstones. Skill in milling does supposedly make the job go faster, but I too have never noticed a difference when using millstones.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 05:01, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Butcher

2009-04-14T04:51:39Z

Zipdog:

Wouldnt it make more sense to redirect this to [[Butcher%27s_shop]]? --[[User:Mizipzor|Mizipzor]] 20:29, 4 November 2007 (EST)

== Experience/Speed==
it takes my dabbling butcher only a splitsecond to butcher a mule - how could he be faster? --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 19:43, 14 February 2008 (EST)
:read carefully: "Higher skill allows them to '''process corpses''' only faster." He's getting faster with processing corpses of dead animals, e.g. from a hunt or from some accident. Butchering of an animal is surprisingly fast and independent of skill.
::yeah, i had noticed that later and even made an edit to just that quote, only forgot to remove the above post ;) but thanks --[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 07:57, 15 February 2008 (EST)

== Butchering immature animals ==

I was looking to see if there is any benefit to waiting for animals to mature before butchering them... ie does a "cow calf" produce less meat than a cow? does a kitten produce less meat than a cat? (we all know how quick the cat population explodes and there are no wild animals on the Z-levels I have access to!)[[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:15, 21 June 2008 (EDT)

: I noticed the other day that kittens product 2 meat (1 less than adult cats), and I believe also 2 bones. I would ''guess'' that in general you get 1/2 of what you would get from the adult, rounded up. That's a complete guess though, so some actual research might be in order. --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 19:10, 21 June 2008 (EDT)

A cow calf returns 6 meat, 6 chunks, 6 bone, 6 fat, skin and skull. This is 2/3 the value of a full cow, though the fat level is the same. I would expect then that butchering immature animals returns 2/3 the full value of a grown animal. -- [[User:Primax|Primax]] 23:35, 6 October 2008 (EDT)

:For the record, I believe the amount of meat returned is equal to the animal's size. So a kitten is size 2 and returns 2 meat while a cat is size 3 and returns 3 meat. If they're all 2/3 the size then that may be an explicit decision of ToadyOne, but ultimately meat, bones, etc... returned are a function of the actual creature's bodysize, regardless of the ultimate reason for that bodysize. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 07:18, 13 January 2009 (EST)

== Butchering Goblins ==

Goblins are BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD. The page says this means they MUST be tamed and then marked to be slaughtered. Does this mean I can't butcher the bodies? You should be able to butcher just about anything...
--[[User:Xonara|Xonara]] 04:04, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

: Correct. You can still get their bones by putting their bodies in a refuse stockpile and waiting for them to decompose (you'll get the bones anywhere inside, but the refuse area will hopefully not make a problem with miasma). I guess dwarves don't like to feast on the bodies of their enemies. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 04:28, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

== Empty Heads? ==
I was watching my butcher slog her way through the dismembered carcasses of a barrel of [[rhesus macaque]]s when I noticed something odd. Because my traps are filled with obsidian swords, the monkeys were in many pieces. Like heads. When she butchered a head, I was expecting a skull to come out, but instead it was one bone and one meat. Bug? Is the head a feature of the body for some reason? --[[User:Oddrune|Oddrune]] 02:43, 13 January 2009 (EST)
:AFAIK, heads, chunks, and limbs cannot be butchered, only the listed dead body, which always yields the specified bones/skin/skull/fat/meat values. Are you certain that the actual corpse was not being butchered, not the head object? Although, that leads to the question, do headless corpses still produce a skull, or is that handled? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 13:12, 13 January 2009 (EST)
::Body parts can be and often are butchered. They produce materials proportional to the whole corpse - the size of the body part is the numerator, the size of the parent creature is the denominator. All of these are rounded down (that's what computers ALWAYS do unless told to do otherwise). So in this case, while you might reasonably expect the head to contain a skull, it's a fraction of the corpse, and computationally it produces a fraction of a skull - and that's rounded down to no skull at all. You could conceivably consider this a bug, but in my mind it's fine. Decapitations are rarely clean, so it's not unreasaonble to expect that the skull was ruined in the messiness, and the bones extracted are merely the usable parts. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 13:28, 13 January 2009 (EST)
:::This is easily confirmed and seen by having your hunters use axes, which invariably slice SOMETHING off of the corpse. This is very inefficient, however, as it increases the number of butchering trips (each dismembered part is butchered seperately). It also makes it very difficult to hunt anything that runs away from hunters.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 04:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

==Butchery related tokens==
So, to the best of my ability to determine, dwarves (for example) do not have [NON_BUTCHERABLE] nor [BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD], yet their corpses are not butcherable. Which tokens automatically imply one of the two above? Is there a token which overrides this and makes a creature butcherable regardless? --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 02:45, 16 January 2009 (EST)

well as the mot sentient creatures dont have to token any more i think its just got thrown out, because the ethics maybe do this job now, should be tested
--[[User:Rhenaya|Rhenaya]] 20:59, 16 January 2009 (EST)

40d Talk:Captured live fish

2009-04-14T04:22:27Z

Zipdog:

.38c -> mog juice shows up in the 'kitchen' list as a cookable item. --[[User:Esoterrik1|Esoterrik1]] 16:59, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

== Can't get this to work... ==

Whenever I queue up a "Capture a live fish" task, the person who picks it up walks over to my animal stockpile (which is on land) and just stands next to a trap until he gets bored and switches to another task. I do have fishable lakes and I do have a glass terrarium that is unused and non-forbidden. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:30, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
:I had this issue too, after the season changed my dorf ran over and grabbed a salmon or somesuch. I'm guessing there needs to be a fish in valid fishing areas for this job to complete. Otherwise they stand around and wait for a fish to spawn so they can capture it. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 11:57, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
::I'm glad I wasn't the only one. [[User:Aosher|Aosher]] 06:44, 3 February 2009 (EST)
:::Just so we're clear, to successfully capture a live fish you must:
:::A.) Have an empty animal trap
:::B.) Have a dwarf with the "fishing" labor enabled
:::C.) Have a valid, accessible fishing area with capturable fish in it
:::D.) Have a place to deposit the fish? A pond? An aquarium? An animal storage stockpile? This is the part I think I get hung up on.--[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 04:22, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Rock salt

2009-04-14T01:12:44Z

Zipdog:

Has anything been said about this mineral being processed/milled into a foodstuff? After all, sodium chloride has long been used for seasoning. On that note, oceanic fortresses might benefit from an option to boil off seawater into seasoning salt at the Kitchen. Yum. --[[User:Alfador|Alfador]] 13:37, 16 November 2007 (EST)

:Also, why is it possible to pump water through rock salt without dissolving any? My indoor well is over a resevoir of water in a rock-salt basin, which would presumably make it so salinated as to be worthless. No effect in game though. --[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 16:57, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

::Find me dwarven poop and I shall answer your question. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 18:15, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Well, have you ever wondered why the seeds left over from eating plants are left on the chair instead of the table? --[[User:Dadamh|Dadamh]] 17:38, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Dwarves sweep them off the table when done.
::::--[[User:Savok|Savok]], answering silly questions at 23:31, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::I would like salt, at least as a trade good. - --[[User:Zipdog|Zipdog]] 01:12, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

40d Talk:Magma

2009-04-14T01:10:22Z

Zipdog: /* Spawn Distance For Creatures? */ new section

Are you certain that steel is a requirement for metals in contact with magma? This info conflicts with the [[Magma smelter]] article, which state that using [[Fire-safe materials]] is enough. Don't have a fort with magma yet, but could someone check which one is correct?[[User:Thexor|Thexor]] 19:23, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:If i disable temperature can my dwarfs swim through the magma unharmed? Will it still cause water to steam? [[User:Diabl0658|Diabl0658]] 22:28, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:: Yes, dwarves seem to be able to swim through magma unharmed when temperature is off(I've had them shoved in during a fight, not 100% sure), but they'll violently resist this, even without danger. Water will still steam, it seems to be hard coded. --[[User:Erathoniel|Erathoniel]] 16:50, 12 November 2008 (EST)

Does the type of rock around the mountainous areas hint at magma? If you check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_rocks#Naming this article] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock#Mineralogical_classification this site] list a bunch of common volcanic rocks: Granite, Rhyolite, Diorite, Andesite, Gabbro, Basalt, Peridotite and Komatite. Perhaps some clues as to where to find magma?
:It may be possible to find magma vents by searching for extrusive igneous rocks (such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite), but continental shelves and deep earth are just naturally made of intrusive igneous rock (such as granite, diorite and gabbro). It's generally indicative of rock that has been pushed up to the surface (or erosion has withered the rock down), and not a volcano.
::So areas with surface igneous rocks such as basalt, felsite, rhyolite and andesite have a high chance of finding a source of magma below the surface? I'd like to know if it's entirely random or if there is some order or pattern to it. [[User:Schm0|Schm0]] 08:38, 5 November 2007 (EST)

On a completely different topic: I keep setting up on magma vents but not actually having a magma chamber visible. I assumed one problem was the lack of a border on my plot (so somehow the volcano was actually outside my plot), but even after making it bigger there was still no magma (...but it did have a fancy cave)...This has happened the last 4 times I've tried to start on a volcano, and the world regenerating takes quite a while for ~10 named volcanoes, and then all of the livable ones don't actually have magma.--[[User:UltimaGecko|UltimaGecko]] 16:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
:You might try using reveal.exe to see if the volcano is underground. I just built on a site with a volcano which was not visible from the surface, and used reveal to make sure I hadn't lost my mind (then I killed DF and restarted it so I wouldn't still have the map revealed) - The volcano was entirely underground, covered by layer(s) of rock. I've also added a note to the article saying that it is possible to find a volcano which is visible on the starting screen but not from the surface on-site.--[[User:SL|SL]] 21:54, 7 November 2007 (EST)
::I think this is related to the temperature of the area. I've got a map with a magma vent in the middle of a glacier. There was no surface magma, but there was a nice flat, round patch of obsidian surrounded by ice. After digging down three levels through this "cap", I hit live magma. It's actually a nice setup, as I've basically set up a small fort *in* the cap--basically my dwarves are living in the mouth of the volcano, with the basement level dedicated to magma smelters, forges, glass furnaces, etc. --[[User:RedKing|RedKing]] 04:26, 9 November 2007 (EST)

== Magmapool/pipe section ==
Zara, you recently added some info about all magma pipes having cliffs over them -- this is incorrect. I've played a very large number of magma pipe maps, and very often they are completely exposed to the air. I've also removed the line about them being "as small as two z-levels!", because it needs better phrasing. I may fix it later. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 22:39, 26 February 2008 (EST)

:in the meantime I had figured that out, too. But what is the difference between a magma pipe and a volcano, then? – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Zara|Zara]]

::As far as I know, the distinction comes down to whether it reaches the surface. If so, some would then call it a volcano rather than a magma pipe. I believe that magma pipes which reach the surface (or volcanoes, if you will) are the only ones which actually show up on the embark map, while underground magma pipes and magma pools do not (unless you use the Regional Prospector tool). --[[User:Janus|Janus]] 23:07, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

:::No, similar to Moonanibe,I've played on several maps where, on the embark screen, the magma pipe was only visible using regional prospector. However, as soon as I took a look at the place, I found the magma partly (or completely) exposed on the surface. [[User:Zara|Zara]] 01:59, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

== Added new section ==
I added a section regarding "Built objects vs. Magma". I think it's absolutely vital we establish what does and doesn't melt in magma, in a clean list. There are quite a few things that could be added to that list (Constructed floors for one) so please, do add to it. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 17:31, 18 February 2008 (EST)
:Have you tested the bridges? I conjecture that all buildings and constructions without mechanisms are perfectly fine with magma contact. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 10:37, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:: The bridges part was cut from another section of the article and moved in there. Since it was already here, I assumed it was accurate. I haven't actually checked myself. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 16:54, 19 February 2008 (EST)
:I will verify bridges one way or the other. I'm pretty sure they cant melt, though. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 21:03, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::they dont melt, as they arent actually within the magma. that was copied over from the 2d wiki and nobody removed it -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 22:29, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::: I noticed you removed the line about bridges. It seems silly not to mention them at all, so I've written up a line about them working no matter what the material and stuck it in. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 23:12, 19 February 2008 (EST)
::::yea they should definately be mentioned, wasnt thinking when i removed it completely(recovering from a bad cold and brain is still a bit foggy) -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 00:49, 20 February 2008 (EST)
Tested. Non-magmaiproof bridges -over- magma are fine. Non-magma-proof submerged in magma will melt. [[User:VengefulDonut|VengefulDonut]] 12:39, 21 February 2008 (EST)
: Interesting. I'll edit the article to say as much. [[User:MOOMANiBE|MOOMANiBE]] 15:30, 21 February 2008 (EST)
This is what I've found: ANY Construction is safe from magma (even wooden ones. Walls, stairs, fortifications, etc). Any building is unaffected by magma if the magma doesn't occupy the same tile as the building. Example: a door is safe if it's closed, even if it's made of non-safe rock or wood. If you lock it open with a mechanism, or if it's jammed, then the magma interacts with the components, burning/melting them if they can't stand the heat. A pump made of wood or any other material is also safe, as long as the magma doesn't flow *over* it. Since the "out" side acts as a wall, if it's correctly isolated from the magma it won't get damaged and will pump the magma without any trouble. --[[User:Sergius|Sergius]] 01:41, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Anyone clear on Vertical Bars in magma? I am attempting to keep imps and such from moving through my magma feeding tunnel and was curious if anyone had any good solutions to this problem. --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 16:23, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

:I just use a bauxite wall grate, it works fine for me. --[[User:Zombiejustice|Zombiejustice]] 01:02, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
:: Ah, thank you, I just wanted to be sure they didn't melt regardless --[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 02:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
 
I made a few tests with magma and buildings/constructions and I can confirm some known results and I can provide a few new aspects. Constructions (b->C) are magma safe (walls, floors, stairs, others not tested). No matter what the material is.
*<s>bridges build with bauxite *rocks* are not magma safe (bauxite mechanism or not)</s>
*bridges build with bauxite *blocks* are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
*bridges build with steel bars are magma safe (test with mechanism is pending)
Open test: bridge with blocks considered as not magma safe.
 [[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 12:14, 11 July 2008 (EDT)
::I'm sorry, I made a mistake. The bridges build with bauxite rocks were previously connected with a lever. Unfortunately the mechanism is not removed from the bridge when you remove the lever. Well, at least it seems that the rules for magma safe materials are valid for bridges. With one exception: raised bridges can contain any mechanism, only when magma flows over the bridge it is destroyed.--[[User:Imajia|Imajia]] 13:18, 13 July 2008 (EDT)

== Replenishing Magma ==

Since magma replenishes now, I've rewritten that snippet from the article. If I've missed something(a kind of magma not regenerating, though this always worked for me on several maps), feel free to correct things. --[[User:Romantic Warrior|Romantic Warrior]] 15:47, 18 February 2008 (EST).

I have a very good feeling that the replenishing magma is just "pressurized" magma. I haven't tested fully, but i have poured water over a magma pipe and re-mined it, and in that case the magma flow was upwards. --[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 03:49, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Temperature ==

Does magma increase the temperature of things around it? Can it be used to melt ice? --[[User:Ikkonoishi|Ikkonoishi]] 20:26, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

:I'm not sure how the temperature calculations are done, but I CAN tell you that magma will melt nearby ice. Check out http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-153-meltingwateronglacier to see it in action. [[User:Zaranthan|Zaranthan]] 15:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)

::It should be a flow, just like the magma itself. One of the other visible results is warm stone. The same can probably be said for water and damp stone as well. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 17:01, 26 January 2008 (EST)

==Flow?==

I have a magma pipe (pit) in my current fortress... I breached the pipe from the lowest level because of the diagonal bug when I discovered it, and it filled some long exploratory shafts. Since then, the top magma layer is down to 5/7 and 6/7 running all over the surface. After a little while, it's easy to see that magma act curiously: instead of bouncing from wall to wall like real water physics, in my game the 5/7 (the flow) seems to all move in the same direction at the same time. The direction change often, and seem to change randomly. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 22:43, 26 November 2007 (EST)

There is another way to stop a flow of magma that's moving through a tunnel. You can go one z-level higher, dig to a spot above the magma-filled tunnel, then build a channel above where the magma is flowing and assign it as a Pond Zone. So long as you have buckets and a viable Water Source zone, a dwarf will come along and drop water on the magma, instantly turning it into obsidian and blocking the tunnel. --[[User:Stromko]] January 6th, 2007
: I've tried this - it rarely works. Usually you just destroy 1/7 of the magma per bucket, along with the water from the bucket, and nothing turns to obsidian. You need to hit it with larger quantities of water at once to get reliable results. --[[User:SL|SL]] 10:35, 6 January 2008 (EST)
::Actually, you have to hit it from two levels up. Just one won't do anything.--[[User:Demosthenes|Demosthenes]] 17:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)

I have added a section to the main page on magma flow, based on frequent confusion in the forums, and on some investigations I have been making into the behavior of magma when pumped (I'm not the first to discover this behavior, but I did go to a fair degree of effort to test how it behaves in differing circumstances) --[[User:Kaypy|Kaypy]] 21:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
:Now THAT is how you make a diagram! Awesome. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 22:20, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

==Criteria for Magma Buildings==

Is there a special condition that must be met before Magma Smelters/Forges/Furnaces and so on will appear on the build menus? I have a magma pit and some channels over it so that I can access it for magma, but I cannot build any magma-using buildings. - [[User:Confused Rat|Confused Rat]]

:Magma furnaces and forges need a hole somewhere on the ground where they are built. This is to allow the furnace/forge to take the heat from the magma as they are used. --[[User:Eagle of Fire|Eagle of Fire]] 19:43, 25 January 2008 (EST)

:What he means is that the magma furnaces don't even appear in the build menu. This is because you haven't discovered magma through natural means. The only way this can happen is if you used reveal to find the magma. You'll have to use the [[Utilities#Enable_Magma_Buildings|Enable Magma Buildings]] utility to make them appear. --[[User:Valdemar|Valdemar]] 20:03, 25 January 2008 (EST)

:Reclaimed fortresses may be bugged. If you reclaimed you fortress you probably can't do anything with it without 3rd party programs (like one mentioned above). Magma in [[pit]]s isn't enough to allow magma buildings. You need to discover true magma pipe and get pop-up informing about this. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 08:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

:I had a similar problem in a human settlement, so I do not know if the bug applies there, too... but there IS a chance I abandoned and reclaimed at one point, so it could just be that --[[User:Zatnik|Zatnik]] 05:02, 7 January 2009 (EST)

== Infinity Generators? ==

Because magma is currently a finite resource, would it be a good idea to add how to make an infinity generator as workarround untill Toady gives us some more of the stuff?—Preceding [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Highlord Asehujiko|Highlord Asehujiko]] ([[User talk:Highlord Asehujiko|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/Highlord Asehujiko|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}
:Not on the main article as it would easily be considered cheating. In here, or the [[cheating]] article itself would be fine, the latter probably more appropriate as it could be applied to water as well for those scorching maps. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 19:16, 27 January 2008 (EST)
::Magma regenerates in most cases, which pretty much means it's infinite. --[[User:Someone-else|Someone-else]] 19:19, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

== Lava vs. Magma ==

I hadn't noticed it until just now, but both Lava and Magma occur in the game. I haven't seen this fact referenced in the wiki. Magma is a fluid which occurs in Magma Pipes, and in areas directly connected to Magma Pipes. Lava appears to occur in disconnected areas. I'm not sure what happens if you reconnect. If you use {{k|k}} to view a square, you'll see either Magma or Lava depths given. I'm not clear on what difference there is between the two fluids. --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 02:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

:There is none, just the name. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 10:30, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::both in df, and irl, molten rock in open air is called lava, while subterranean is called magma -[[User:Chariot|Chariot]] 15:40, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

::: Ah, so magma which is ''Outside'' is lava. Cool. I guess my disjoint areas are all also outside :) I suppose we ought to mention this somewhere on the page? --[[User:Doctorlucky|Doctorlucky]] 19:19, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

== Magma vs puppy? ==

I have encountered an interesting glitch. I have 2 puppies and a kitten in magma that aren't dying, and yes I have temperature setting on. http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-570-magmavspuppy

For those interested in trying to recreate it, I believe it has to do with designating the animal to slaughter while trying to throw it into a pit. A few of my dwarves were having pathing errors to try and slaughter them when I noticed the 3 invulnerable pests. After saving and reloading, the critters were insta-gibbed.
--[[User:Sphexx|Sphexx]] 04:59, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Chasm Confusion ==

"The minerals directly adjacent to the magma vent will also be immediately visible, even at the lowest level of the map, which can give some hints about where to prospect for ores."

Magma, at least in my experience, has always been surrounded only by Obsidian, as a result you cannot get any kind of insight as to the surrounding minerals, this differs from a chasm where the veins coming up to a chasm are directly reflected in the walls.

--[[User:Stalinbulldog|Stalinbulldog]] 04:18, 26 July 2008 (EDT)
:volcanoes and magmapipes can form large "chasms" above them, though it depends on how rocky the map is
:Confirmed, various minerals and gems were visible in the 'crater' area two levels above the magma in my magma pipe. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:05, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== gruesome accident in reall really older 2d version ==

beware wooden floodgates
not only do they burn(as I planned)
but i scattered magma all around the room
it rolled around quickly in all directions, flooding the tunnels, burning miners, smelters, war dogs and puppies alike without remorse.
it has thus far filled the entire message screen with " someone" or "something" has burned to death
it appears to gain mass from creeping down hallways! oh god...
60 deaths, at least 25 dwarves and 15 puppies22:08, 28 July 2008 (EDT)[[User:Eerr|Eerr]]

== Magma cooling? ==

Ive noticed at a 1/7 depth, the magma seems to cool and go away. v40d --[[User:OmegaX|OmegaX]] 17:28, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

: That is probably what the author meant by "Magma that is only 1 deep "evaporates" over time." [[User:MagicGuigz|MagicGuigz]] 19:58, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

== Mechanisms on Non-Floodgates ==

I want to power my underground smelting operations with magma, so I'm digging a tunnel into the side of a magma pipe. I don't want magma creatures coming in that way, so I need a set of [[bars]] across it. However, once I set up the bars, I need to open them to get a miner past and cut the last bit of stone and open the tunnel to the magma. I was going to just attach the bars to a level, but the question of what to use for the [[mechanism]] is bugging me. I don't want to waste my precious imported [[Bauxite]] on the mechanism, and once it closes behind the miner it never need to open again so it's fine it it melts, but not if the melting mechanism will cause the bars to deconstruct! Anyone know what happens to things other than floodgates when their mechanisms get melted off?
--17:11, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

: Or you could make your life much simpler with [[Fortifications]]. [[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 23:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

:: How? [[Fortification|Fortifications]] allow liquid to pass through and stop creatures, yes, but you can't open them ''at all''. How am I supposed to get my dwarf back after he digs the last square of the channel if there's a fortification blocking the way?--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 15:49, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I used a fortification to keep fire imps out of my magma channel; I dug a stairway totally unconnected to the rest of my fortress to a spot adjacent to the top layer of the magma pipe, then dug a tunnel from within the fortress to within one tile of the stairway. I fortified the tile that separated the two, then dug a channel (from outside) that let the magma flow against the "outside" face of the fortification. The magma flowed through the fortification and into the "inside" tunnel.

:::For good measure, in case I want to drain the inside tunnel at some point, I put an s-turn in the inside tunnel and situated a nickel/bauxite floodgate around the corner, out of sight of the fortification.

:::Viewed from above, basically it looks like this:

~============
~~=====..X...
~~=====.=====
~~=<#...=====
~~===========
~============

~ - Magma pipe
= - Unmined tile (wall)
. - Mined tile (channel)
< - Stairway
# - Fortification
X - Floodgate

:::The last step here is to remove the tile between the magma and the stairway by digging a channel from one z-level up.
:::--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 03:16, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Why do you need a stairway? Couldn't you have just put the fortification on the tile where you have the stairway now? I'm also not sure why you need a turn as opposed to having the floodgate directly in line; i.e. {{qd|cols=7|~|`|╬|{{qd/ch{{!}}X{{!}}888|ccc}}|.|.|.}}
::::[[User:Random832|Random832]] 08:55, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::I believe you can't create a fortification from above, though I could be wrong. It doesn't cost anything to dig one extra z-level down to get yourself a tile with an open face front and back which fortifies up nicely. Also, I put the kink in the tunnel just to be paranoid -- I don't want things shooting fireballs down it. I'm not sure if a fireball can destroy a floodgate. Again, it didn't cost me anything to make it a touch more elaborate.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 18:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

::::Well, if I dug in from above, I could just use a non-retracting set of bars. Fortifications allow liquid to flow, but they slow it down. But I'm not digging at the top level of the pipe. I suppose I could just use a sacrificial non-magma-safe floodgate, set up the bars behind it, and then open it and let it melt.
::::--[[User:Macdjord|Macdjord]] 13:20, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

== Magma Ate My Wall ==
While digging my channel to a magma pipe, I came across a vein of Lignite which ran perpendicular to my channel. I mined it out, hauled the lignite over to my fortress, and then built some walls over the side passages. It's now less than a year later, and one of those wall-units is missing. Unless there's some way a fire imp or other magma creature can destroy walls, the magma must have melted the wall. --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 07:12, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:Wasn't that wall a Lignite wall ? It may have burnt, then. [[User:Timst|Timst]] 09:46, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:Yes, it sounds like it was a liginite wall. Magma will ignite coke-bearing rock, this has been the case for a long time. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 09:56, 5 November 2008 (EST)

:: No, the wall was built from rock salt. All the lignite was hauled away, and as an economic stone, not a material choice I could have made by accident. The floor is still lignite though. Think that may have been a factor? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 09:58, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::That's possible, but I find it unlikely. Also, I misinterpreted what you meant by 'built a wall', didn't realize it was a construction. I thought it was a smoothed rock face. It's been a persisting question (at least in #df on synIRC) if magma will melt constructions not made of bauxite. You may have just answered that for us. Perhaps you could test by letting magma into a 5x5 room with one natural rock pillar in the middle, and a wall construction of the same type of stone? That'd answer the question once and for all, I think. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:11, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::I've had magma against some of my constructed walls for years and years without damage. A good thing too, I've got quarters on the other side! They're almost certainly basalt. I wouldn't rule out the vanishing wall being caused by a burning floor; lignite can burn for years before vanishing. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 15:14, 5 November 2008 (EST)
::::Interesting. It was probably the liginite floor, then, but that begs the question of how a burning floor could consume a wall; stone should be fire-safe. A really interesting situation, to be sure. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 17:26, 5 November 2008 (EST)
:::Also -- as for 'not a material choice I could have made by accident', I've found my masons will happily convert expensive imported ores and flux into blocks if they decide your depot's closer than the nearest basalt. And once anything's blocked, it's useless but for constructions. --[[User:Corona688|Corona688]] 16:39, 5 November 2008 (EST)

::::: @Corona: That's for a mason's workshop, though. When you build walls, you choose the specific rocks to build from. Although, I have to say that I've never had a mason use a rock from the restricted list.
::::: For clarity, here's an image capture. The east-west shaft was my original tunnel towards the magma pipe. Every mined-out tile north or south of that shaft was Lignite. However, the opening just below the cursor, where my missing wall is supposed to be, is listed as Rock Salt as well. This is because dwarves kept building that section of wall from the wrong side, and I had to deconstruct it and put it back up several times -- which kills our "burning lignite floor" theory. Hrm.....now that I think about it, I can't be sure that I did build that wall in the end. I can't remember if a dwarf ever built it from the correct side. I'll let you know if another wall section disappears.
[[Image:romeofalling1.GIF]]

--[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 18:54, 5 November 2008 (EST)

== Disambiguation ==

I see the term ''magma pipe'' and ''magma vent'' being used interchangeably. Do these terms mean the same thing? --[[User:RomeoFalling|RomeoFalling]] 20:25, 8 November 2008 (EST)

:Basically, yes. Magma vents, however, are visible from the surface, whereas magma pipes are not. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 00:26, 9 November 2008 (EST)

== Magma Vs. Sand ==

In a failed experiment with wooden screw pumps with magma proof blocks, I have discovered something horrible and intriguing. Magma/lava can burn it's way through sand, so now I have an above ground magma cistern half flooding back into the magma pipe I filled it from, and half into my underground workshops through 2 z-levels of sand flooring. I have picture proof too, but I have no idea how to upload pictures from my laptop to a wiki. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 14:19, 11 November 2008 (EST)

:"Upload file", toolbox, left side of this page.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 14:34, 11 November 2008 (EST)
::Ah, thanks. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Do you mean it goes down z-levels, or does it just move across the sand? magma can normally move across anything except water, I think. --[[User:Destor|Destor]] 14:41, 11 November 2008 (EST)
:Vertically, through z-levels. It created a hole that wasn't there before through a sand floor, into my main hallway, and then through the floor there into my workshops and stockpiles. From there, it simply followed the path of least resistance down the stairs and into the living quarters (not shown). The magma seems to only tunnel through floor tiles that have no wall tile below them, which is understandable but I've never had this happen before. Though, admittedly I have never tried to create a lava cistern on top of sand before. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 20:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)
<gallery>
Image:DF-0.JPG|Above ground (sorry for large size despite jpeg compression)
Image:DF-1.JPG|1 z-level down (main hallway)
Image:DF-2.JPG|2 z-levels down (workshops and rock, bar, and wood stockpiles)
</gallery>

== Regarding Boatmurdered ==

I have this intense desire to flood the world in magma. (yes, I'm playing the 2D Dwarf Fortress. Sue me.) How did they get the magma onto the surface? Last I checked, pumps don't exist, sooo... --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 02:45, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:Channels and aqueducts... They'll transport any liquid anywhere. And bridges too!--[[User:Dorten|Dorten]]
::But magma's on the "Z-level" below. How's it supposed to get on the actual level of the elephants? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 13:50, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:::You're still thinking in 3D. Magma is "in" the tiles where the river is, and will be in the tiles where you dig a channel, and you want to get it in the tiles where the elephants are, by digging a channel from the magma river to the outside and "releasing" it from the channel using a floodgate. The miner who digs the part of the channel that connects it to the magma river itself might get killed, since they always stood ''in'' the channel square while digging it in the 2D version. Put a floodgate just beyond it before digging it out so you can shut off the flow, since you will make mistakes.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:36, 28 November 2008 (EST)
::::Yes, I realize I'm thinking in 3D. Exactly how does the magma get out of the channel and onto the ground? Because last I checked, fluids didn't do that naturally. --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 18:44, 28 November 2008 (EST)
:::::That's just the way the 2D version works. Channel next to liquid = liquid now in channel. Tile at end of channel not floodgate (or other liquid stopper) = liquid now on ground. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:47, 28 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Read [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Channel#Game_mechanics Channel] and [http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Irrigation#Controlled_flooding Irrigation] on the archive wiki. You have to play with channels and floodgates for a bit before it all makes sense, though. The 2D version tended to get real kludgy when it came to fluids. Try to get a farm going to understand the basics of the 2D channels, floodgates, and fluids.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:07, 28 November 2008 (EST)

== No little errors ==

I just made a discovery. There is nothing like small error in the terms of magma engineering. After attempting to make my lava moat, I accidentally dug channel one tile longer, than it should be. At first, it went good. But then, magma flowed over my wall and flooded entire fortress. Remember - no little errors. [[User:SanDiego|SanDiego]] 12:19, 30 November 2008 (EST)

== Export the local map ==

"...you can try exporting the local map of the world which can be much more quickly searched for the distinctive red ≈ symbol. " How does one do that? --[[User:Azaram|Azaram]] 02:08, 4 December 2008 (EST)
:Right after generating your world, there is an option to export the map. I think it maps to 'p' but I can't swear to it now. I don't know if there is a way to do it at a time other than right after generation. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:45, 4 December 2008 (EST)
::Legends screen lets you export maps as well, but they don't have the special features enabled, even with all applicable options enabled. Probably on the todo list 'somewhere', but can't imagine it's even semi-important. So you'll have to rely on worldgen exports. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::I thought it was just the region map you can export, not the local map, and a red ≈ just means desert and/or red sand on that map. You can see named volcanoes on it though -- red ^s.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:16, 4 December 2008 (EST)

::It's mapped to "P". Capital. [[User:Zchris13|Zchris13]] 21:01, 12 February 2009 (EST)

== Temperature setting ==

While magma will not cause fires while the temperature is turned off in the init file, it seems the game remembers at least some of the fires it would have caused. I was playing with temperature off and tunneled into magma rather carelessly, knowing it wouldn't hurt me, later, when I turned the temperature on in that game, the dwarves that came into contact with the magma were immediately set on fire. This was about a year later in game. I checked back several times by quitting without saving, every time I turned the temperature on, those same dwarves caught fire, with the temperature off, there was no indication of fire what so ever.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 23:36, 23 January 2009 (EST)

:Oh wow, I can imagine tons of uses for that, especially when toady makes it so that you can go and raid the goblins... Kamikaze dwarves, anyone? Well, I guess it should be in the article, but it would be nice to do more testing first. I think that if a dwarf falls in water, he stops burning. So if you could find out if they, after being put out with temperature off, still lit up next time we could put it in. Do more research, I would but I have had trouble with DF lately, it has been mad slow.--[[User:Destor|Destor]] 00:01, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::Well, temperatures are flows, and items remember how warm they are, so presumably the dwarves that burst into flames are still at a ridiculous temperature and haven't cooled down. That, or the coating of magma on their bodies is causing them to burn...--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 00:36, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::: It has got to be the coating, as you say. Turning off the tempurature means that they should STOP remembering. The flows should not be calculated, and the items should have nothing to remember. Thats why turning it off speeds up the game, especially in extreme environs or around magma. There was, however, nothing listed that I could find, so this "magma coating" is invisible to the interface. It should also be noted that it was apparently the dwarves who caught fire first, and their burning flesh that apparently set their clothes on fire moments later.--[[User:Sotanaht|Sotanaht]] 12:29, 24 January 2009 (EST)

::::Check specifically for magma splatters on the dwarfs in question. I wouldn't be surprised if they picked them up, similar to when creatures get doused in water. The liquid tends to stick all over them, and rarely goes away on it's own. Best bet to preserve them would be to construct a waterfall-shower, and hope it washes away the magma spatter, rather than creating obsidian ;) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 07:11, 25 January 2009 (EST)
:::::Yer, looks like the dawrfs got their Pigtail socks a coating of magma. Then magma goes boom.--[[User:Cultiststeve|cultiststeve]] 08:08, 19 February 2009 (EST)

==Site finder==

Will magma Pipes always show up on the local map? Because my site finder keeps throwing up sites with no visible magma on the local map. --[[User:ArneHD|ArneHD]] 17:09, 12 February 2009 (EST)

:No, magma pipes don't always reach the surface, and therefore won't always show up on the embark map. You can find out it's actual location by taking a guess based off of what stone layers are shown where in the embark map, or you can go to your init.txt and change SHOW_EMBARK_M_PIPE to ALWAYS. --[[User:Alkyon|Alkyon]] 17:29, 12 February 2009 (EST)

== Magma-swimming Baby ==

For some reason, someone has dropped their baby into the magma. The strange thing is, it aint burning up. Its lying there, and apparently has done so for a long time. Its hungry and thirsty. --[[User:Myroc|Myroc]] 15:26, 21 February 2009 (EST)
:I once had a mother get trapped behind a magma bulkhead with her baby. She died promptly. The baby just sorta sat in the magma flow for about a year before it died too. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 16:40, 21 February 2009 (EST)

== Spawn Distance For Creatures? ==

How far from the magma pipe can fire snakes (and imps, if they spawn) appear? Also, are they limited to spawning near the magma pipe itself, or ANY magma (i.e., a magma tap leading across the map into your fortress)?

40d Talk:Undead

2009-04-08T21:01:59Z

Zipdog: /* Undead dwarves? */

40d Talk:Undead

2009-04-08T20:59:05Z

Zipdog: /* Undead dwarves? */ new section

One question: I had two dwarves that were not always occupied hunt small zombies and skeletons (hoary marmots, mountain goat and such). Apart from getting really good at wrestling, they both seemed to gain "Is used to tragedy" as a character trait. Can anyone confirm that? -- [[User:qwertyu|qwertyu]] 12:34, 9 March 2008 (CET)

:That always happens regardless of what they are killing.

:Should we include the fact that attempting to pit undead animals of any kind will result in them attacking the moment they are released, regardless of how close they are to the pit. (They can be right next to it but still attack the pit-ter once they are out of the cages)
:--[[User:Umiman|Umiman]] 07:39, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

::I believe we should put it in as a warning to those who attempt to put captured undead in pits.
::--Rickola

:::Should it be mentioned that the Undead versions are much more tougher than 'normal' creatures, once I had an entire fortress wiped out by a single Undead Racoon. --[[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 06:47, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

::::I think zombies are a lot harder than skeletons. Maybe undead horses are just absurdly hard anyway, but I put all seven of my starting dwarves on a single zombie horse. Sure, they were untrained and unarmored and were wrestling it to death (except for the miners), but all seven dwarves went from untrained in wrestling to novice wrestlers, became tired/exhausted, AND two dwarves died and three got yellow/red injuries, before that single zombie horse went down. Then the other four zombie horses wandered in... Skeletons seem to be a lot easier to kill. --[[User:Sowelu|Sowelu]] 04:15, 22 November 2008 (EST)

:::::Though zombies are easy to run away from. My dwarves sidestep zombies whenever they see them (which is often, on my current map), but skeletons would corner them. Zombies are, however, famously difficult to kill by wrestling. Use an axe or sword.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 16:25, 22 November 2008 (EST)

::::::Zombies are utterly impossible to kill with wrestling. The only wrestling move that can kill at all is strangling, and zombies don't breathe or bleed. Dwarves set to wrestle undead will only ever destroy them with punches. If you're heading into an evil biome, I'd recommend bringing a well-armed macedwarf! That'll teach 'em to stay dead, pretty darn quick. Swords aren't so good, spears and picks even worse, though axes will do okay. In a pinch, at least make your dwarves shields to bash with. It's a matter of raw damage. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:27, 22 November 2008 (EST)

== Skeleton Corpse ==

I have a Skeleton Horse Corpses. That's not normal, right? It appears to have fallen several levels into a river. Adjacent to it (well... adjacent if you ignore the z-difference) are bridge squares and weapon traps. --[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 11:55, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

:I saw [http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=22793.0 this report] a while ago on the bugs board. May be worth resurrecting it (especially if you can supply saves)? --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 14:21, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

::Hmm, just noticed it wasn't on the bugs board, but on the gameplay questions board. May be worth starting a thread on the bugs board then? --[[User:Raumkraut|Raumkraut]] 15:49, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

::: Ah, the board. I hadn't even looked at that yet. Anyway, the person you linked to posted in the bugs board too, so I guess this is known. I didn't think of getting a save... --[[User:Groveller|Groveller]] 07:24, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Skeletal creatures ==

I was told that skeletal creatures would lose their limbs whenever they hit broken status. Is this true?

As another note, if that is true, I have a bug that occured. Under the assumption broken bones = removed bones for the skeletons, one of my hammerdwarves hit a skeletal dragon so hard that its upper body was instantly mangled, skipping the broken (and thusly removed) state entirely.[[User:Milskidasith|Milskidasith]] 17:17, 9 November 2008 (EST)

Assuming the 'sever on break' tag applies to skeletons, it only applies to limbs. You can't 'sever' a torso. --[[User:Navian|Navian]] 17:27, 22 November 2008 (EST)

==Undead Megabeasts ==

Could this be elaborated on a bit? I've never seen an undead megabeast in the legends screen. How does this work? How rare is it (absurdly rare, I guess)? [[User:Lastofthelight|Lastofthelight]]

:I've had a zombie Titan... no idea why it was a zombie but it was the only megabeast i'd seen. Really, megabeasts are far too rare now that they can be killed off in world gen. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 10:29, 8 January 2009 (EST)

::Agreed. Somehow, I've managed to avoid seeing a megabeast entirely as of yet. Zombies and skeletons are hard enough to find; megabeasts are nearly impossible.

::To be honest, I'm really hoping Toady hurries up and brings back the undead event that was talked about in [[Core components]]. That is, undead dwarves and pets that died in your fortress would pop through the floor and attack you. Spooky. ~ [[User:Midna|Midna]] 07:10, 1 February 2009 (EST)

== Undead dwarves? ==

There are thoughts in the current version that imply that the dead can return as undead and attack your fortress. These thoughts include being attacked by dead pets, relatives, friends, and dead (but still annoying) aquaintances. Exactly how does this happen?

40d Talk:Currency

2009-04-07T23:21:10Z

Zipdog: /* Why no coins */

== Copper makes silver coins? ==

When I mint copper coins and then check the currency display, I find they are counted as silver. --[[User:Geekwad|Geekwad]] 17:13, 19 November 2007 (EST)

:It's a bug, and has been reported on the forum [http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=002030]. All coins are counted as silver by the currency display. You can see the actual coins you have on the stocks screen. --[[User:Turgid Bolk|Turgid Bolk]] 17:17, 19 November 2007 (EST)

::This has been fixed in the current version (38c). [[User:Yvain|Yvain]] 06:15, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

== Monies? ==

Who coined this term, anyway? It bugs me every time I see it. I personally use "currency" (as a mass noun), if you're wondering. --[[User:JT|JT]] 03:00, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

:I have no idea where it came from, but this isn't the first time I've seen it used; might be Engrish.--[[User:Eurytus|Eurytus]] 13:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

::Monies is the correct English plural of money.--[[User:Niaba|Niaba]] 07:09, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

::: And 'correct english plural' is actually kind of confusing, since its a mass noun. If you have a lot of one type of money its all just money. But if you have multiple types (gold, silver, copper) then it is both money (its all currency) and monies (multiple types of coins) depending on whether you're desiring to refer to them as one type of thing or care about there being multiple types of things. Similarly, 'fish' and 'sheep' are also words whose normal plural is the same as the singular (many fish or many sheep), but if you have multiple species (types) you could use either 'fish' or 'fishes' depending on whether you were interested in in the subdivisions in the group. Both of 'There are many fish in the sea' and 'These are the fishes of the amazon' are correct and necessarily include multiple species. Note, fishes as a plural simply signifies number of species, there is no number of actual physical fish implied by that sentence. Similarly, monies merely signifies number of coin types with no reference to a number of coins. Ie, these plurals are conceptual plurals - they are only grammatically appropriate when talking about the conceptual organization of 'money' or 'fish'. --[[User:Squirrelloid|Squirrelloid]] 13:15, 28 April 2008 (EDT) (I hope that isn't too complicated.)

::::I can't see the need for 'monies' when DF has a single, universal currency. You wouldn't refer pounds and pence as different 'monies' even if it may be strictly correct. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 19:05, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Not ''quite'' true – a dwarven economy uses coins of different values, although such is unnecessary and can be worked around.
:::::At least, I'm pretty sure they did in 2D. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 22:52, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

Monies is a joke term used for comedic effect. Such as "I NEEDED THE MONIES!!". --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:29, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:Possibly it is used for comedic effect. However, it is actually the plural of "money."

::That in itself, is a joke. There is no plural of money. Just like there is no plural of Sheep or Deer. --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 09:26, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Reading is fundamental. --[[User:Mattmoss|Mattmoss]] 21:18, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Dictionary time! [http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=73&q=monies Monies] [http://dictionary.reference.com/dic?q=deers&search=search Deers]
:::Yep, they be words. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 15:31, 29 November 2008 (EST)

For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain this was popularized by the [http://durbutter.com/ bio force ape hoax]. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:25, 18 December 2008 (EST)

== Monetary value NOT affecting their value to you as the fortress deity? ==

What does this mean?--[[User:Richards|Richards]] 02:21, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

:Coins have both an [[item value]] and a (higher) money value - the question is which of the 2 is added to your created [[wealth]] totals. (deity refers to the player but i guess thats obvious)--[[User:Koltom|Koltom]] 08:12, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

::I will change this. This nickname for the player is confusing since the dwarves already have their own deities. In fact, I'll comment it out. It is a bit redundant since the page already says the monetary and item values are independent. --[[User:RustyMcloon|Rusty Mcloon]] 05:54, 29 May 2008 (EDT)--

:::Speaking of Deities, is it possible that a dwarf does not believe in any god at all? (ie. an atheist?). --[[User:AlexFili|AlexFili]] 04:30, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Not sure about dwarves. It is possible for powers. The correct term, according to Toady, is "godless." --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 09:03, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

== Vault ==

One of the ideas presented was to mint coins but keep the dwarves from getting them. I've tried ordering the coins dumped, but they seem to be claimed immediately and the Dwarves walk off with them instead of taking them to the vault. Is there some easy way to get my coins into the vault and out of dwarven hands? [[User:Rkyeun|Rkyeun]] 01:30, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

:If I recall correctly you pretty much have to do it before the economy starts up to achieve that. However apparently not building coins at all works too. Personally, and much to my shame/annoyance I've never actually got that far into a game, I keep meaning to but then get bored when everything is just working after a year or so. --[[User:Shades|Shades]] 05:26, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

== Other coins ==

I'm not quite to the point of economy and tax collection yet. I have noticed that more than gold, silver, and copper can be minted. In particular, iron, steel, and platinum have sprung out at me (probably because of the number of RPG systems I've played who use one of those. Ah, and then there's electrum... halfway between silver and gold. :) But that's ''really'' telling my age.) So, does anyone know if these coins have any worth in this economy thingy? -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 15:41, 1 September 2008 (EDT) 
Just to follow up, the game does indeed ignore all other coins. I currently have Iron Pieces and Electrum Pieces, but I think the only thing I can do with them is either melt them down or trade them away. Bummer. -[[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 11:53, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

:I made a bunch of nickel coins before the economy started, since I have loads of the stuff, and it seemed to make sense. They don't show up in the economy screen, but I see them in dwarven rooms all the time. --[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 20:08, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::The following tokens [[string dump|appear in the exe]], and therefore likely have some sort of hard-coded behavior: COPPER SILVER ELECTRUM GOLD PLATINUM DIAMOND EMERALD RUBY SAPPHIRE DRAGON ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_2H ITEM_ARMOR_PLATEMAIL ITEM_ARMOR_CLOAK CAVE WHEAT. [[User:Random832|Random832]] 20:29, 17 December 2008 (EST)

::there us a section in the entity raw:
[CURRENCY_BY_YEAR]
[CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
[CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
[CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
maybe only the currency listed there will be counted as such
--[[User:Rhenaya|Rhenaya]] 21:36, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:::In the process of testing this, but I added another [CURRENCY] tag with a different metal to my civ, and am now attempting to induce the economy so that I can see if it gets listed as legal tender. I'm fairly sure it'll work, though.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 22:27, 17 December 2008 (EST)

==Why no coins==
The wiki is full of ominous rumblings about why you shouldn't make coins ever, and it will destroy your economy, and the dwarven gods will weep, and so on, but no one ever explains it. Could someone please either explain it, or link to somewhere where it has been explained. I would like to have more coins in my economy, but I want to know the effects before I doom my fortress to a hundred and seventy dwarves sitting in their rooms polishing their gold.--[[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]] 20:11, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:I the problem you've heard about is about how you have a very hard time dealing with the hundreds of coin-stacks that tend to get spread throughout the fortress over time, and the only solution to it is to make a room for every dwarf and include '''MANY''' chests, in order to contain them. Then, you run into the problem of all the chests now costing the dwarf more in rent than they make, so you end up with all your non-legendary dwarves being evicted. The only alternatives to this cycle of doom are not minting/allowing access to coins ever, or having hundreds of coin-stacks scattered around, and more often than not, preventing you from building something where you want. I don't know if it's documented, but it's something I've personally dealt with, to include once making tens of thousands of coins and then locking them in a coin stockpile behind forbidden doors. That didn't go over too well, for the same reasons locking anything behind doors never goes well. (Things still try to pathfind to them.) --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 22:00, 17 December 2008 (EST)

:The problem is that dwarves currently handle their hard assets so poorly that they spend an obscene amount of time stacking coins (it's a lot worse than the random "check chest" job that shows up on unowned chests), and they have a bad habit of leaving them lying around. Since they're owned, coins that are just lying around cannot be moved by another dwarf who wants to build something.

:Besides, the economy works 100% flawlessly on credit. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 10:29, 18 December 2008 (EST)

:There are two main problems with the economy, as far as I can tell. The first is as people have said; coins cause the infrastructure to grind to a halt. Dwarves get paid each time they finish a job, which causes them to go and get more coins to match their account, even if it's just a single copper piece from completing a hauling job. The second is that currency is magically conjured out of thin air. When the economy begins, nobody has any money, and if you've not been minting coins, the fortress as a whole has no actual money either unless it's giving credit against its own material value. Then, when someone completes a job, credit is added to their account, seemingly from thin air. Similarly, shopkeepers don't actually overheads beyond the initial purchase of the shop, because all the goods in the shop are simply appropriated from the fortress stocks with no apparent need to pay for them (unless they're there before the shop is purchased by someone). Similarly, rent is seemingly collected by a black hole, since the money is paid to nowhere and simply vanishes (or the coins become unowned).
:What I'd like to see is some kind of "bank" building that held the fortress' money and everyone's accounts. If there's not enough currency to pay everyone for their jobs, they get an unhappy thought until their back-pay comes through. It would be similar to the current credit system, except that the money would actually exist somewhere and the entity that pays people wouldn't be able to spin unlimited amounts of credit from thin air, meaning the player would have to ensure they had enough money to cover everyone's accounts rather than it being an interesting mechanism for evicting poor dwarves.--[[User:Quil|Quil]] 14:01, 18 December 2008 (EST)

::Honestly, the whole economy is so off-kilter right now I'm considering simply turning it off until it sees a major overhaul. I think I'll mess with it again when it's further along in development, as it seems a kind of placeholder right now. I'm sure Toady One can find some real, live economists on these boards to consult with in order to make the whole thing work. – [[template:unsigned|unsigned]] comment by [[User:Pyrite|Pyrite]]

:::One option might be to count coins as a REALLY small item, so small that it doesn't actually appear in-game. Smelted coins are instead simply added to the currency screen, and the dwarves continue about their lives as though on credit. The credit system would be removed, and dwarves WOULD carry coins, but all transactions would be done "backstage." No running off to grab coins, no stashing them in chests, just a running tab of how much everyone is worth. Basically I am suggesting that coins operate like the credit system does now. That would give coins meaning, without making them obnoxiously inconvenient. Bank officers could be appointed to record transactions (or the treasurer could handle it), so that all dwarves' accounts are balanced correctly, without them actually ever touching their money. (BTW, I am not yet used to the whole wikipedia setup, so please bear with me.) --[[User:zipdog|zipdog]]

40d Talk:Sparring

2009-04-04T21:27:40Z

Zipdog: /* Wrasslin' */ new section

== Miners using Mining skill ==

I've noticed my miners tend to get legendary in Miner rather than Wrestler while sparring. So not only do they use their picks and Mining skill in combat, they gain XP in that as well. Can anyone confirm? [[User:Anydwarf|Anydwarf]] 13:45, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

:I read the Dwarf Fortress forums a while ago, and picks indeed use the mining skill for combat. Seems like picks are counted as spears with 40% damage reduction ( or atleast I think it was damage ) but have an insane critical rate. So a legendary miner will be able to hold of a horde of goblins all by himself, provided you can get a civilian to attack and dodge, since civilians are not inclined to attack enemies and do not use armor... --[[User:Karpatius|Karp]] 04:34, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::Draft 'im, I guess. I've occasionally had the fortune of having a legendary miner happen to be in the area when a goblin ambush was sprung, and they've generally done quite well for "recruits" - goblins go flying everywhere. [[User:Bryan Derksen|Bryan Derksen]] 16:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

While we're on the subject, do miners hit Hero status if drafted to fight with their pick? --[[User:GreyMario|GreyMaria]] 15:20, 19 December 2008 (EST)
:I can confirm to you that they do not. --[[User:ThunderClaw|ThunderClaw]] 16:55, 19 December 2008 (EST)

==Speed of training in combat and in sparring==

One thing I've noticed is that my crossbow dwarves seem to gain experience quicker in combat than in target practice at the archery range. Whilst this might be down to availability of ammunition, maybe experience from sparring isn't worth as much as from the real thing, which would make sense. [[User:Extar|Extar]] 11:22, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

:It could also be that in combat, the marksdwarves are getting armor/shield user skill on top of their marksdwarf skill, which target practice doesn't do anything for --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 14:34, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

::They get it faster in combat. Perhaps by an order of magnitude. --[[User:Savok|Savok]] 08:42, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

:::...yeah, that'd do it. --[[User:LegacyCWAL|LegacyCWAL]] 16:57, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::I've witnessed something similar to this with recruits that are unarmed. What had happened was the recruits went into combat with some ambushers and jumped a few levels in wrestling fairly quickly. While Recruits who didn't fight but only spared took about a season to get the same skill in wrestling. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 15:41, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

== Training when and with who ==

Would it be better to train everyone at different times?
People won't get as injured when sparring with someone with around equal attributes...I think.
And to do that you'll need to deactivate or put on duty those with high strength in case thats something that you can do to prevent injury. Or put those who are strong defensively with those who need training. Also, what I thought, since every job might develop some attributes slower than sparring or pumping, is to put them through training when their skills and use are not as needed and when they are needed again, they would be more efficient.
Is that painfully obvious to everyone else?
Something for everyone to figure out for themselves?
...yeah.--[[User:Seaneat|Seaneat]] 08:25, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

== Danger ==

I once had a dorf who arrived in a migrnat wave and was and Axedwarf. As soon as he started sparring he cut of some guys head. Is there a way to change this? [[User:Hoborobo|Hoborobo]] 10:52, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

:Undraft him. Give him a worse weapon. Give the other guys armour. Don't put him on sparring. --[[User:Juckto|Juckto]] 02:36, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

::Heh, same question but my dorf is a swordsdwarf... the only one in the place with a steel sword and steel armour... my poor conscripts don't stand a chance with their leather armour and wooden shields apparently. Oh well at least he didn't kill my overly fertile recruit mayor (it seems she must be popular, maybe that explains all the babies she keeps having)...
::My thought had been to use my first real millitary dwarf as the squad leader but what kind of NCO goes around killing the troops during training![[User:GarrieIrons|GarrieIrons]] 09:18, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Haven't dealt with a PO'd SGM have ya? :P --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:19, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Dwarven soldiers never intentionally kill one another during training. However, imagine if during the modern world, karate teachers taught their students sword technique by using steel weapons. You'd have a lot of dead students there, too. In this sense DF is quite realistic; the problem is that the game doesn't yet allow dwarves to use non-lethal practice weapons instead, short of making players jump through hoops. --[[User:JT|JT]] 20:57, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

:I always put my trainees into a separate squad from anyone that hasn't undergone my training and equipping regime. Typically eliminates accidents like these, and helps keep my troops uniform, both in skill and equipment. Infact, they tend to stay in my trainee squad until they hit Elite level. Those that come pre-trained/equipped are usually placed into a 2nd squad and used as active guards. My civilian populace is placed into a 3rd squad lead by my favored dwarf.
:Squad 1 is almost always drafted and off duty, Squad Two is always on duty and either chasing down cretins or standing guard at my entrance for thieves and the like. Third Squad rarely is activated except in times of siege as an emergency retreat measure to force them to evacuate to behind the barracks. --[[User:N9103|Edward]] 18:19, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

== Metal Bolts + Target Practice ==

"metal bolts will not be wasted on target practice."

I'm not sure if this is true in the latest version - I think target practice uses the least valuable of all bolts available. In my current fortress I witnessed marksdwarves using no-adjective iron bolts for target practice when masterpiece bone bolts (most of them with extra adornment) were the other available ones. --[[User:Felix the Cat|Felix the Cat]] 23:17, 6 July 2008 (EDT)

== Sparring Injuries From Furniture ==

I noticed that my soldiers were receiving a lot of brain and spinal injuries when sparring in a bedroom barracks. They were all wrestling, and using full bronze plate and bronze shields. The room layout looked like this:

####+####
#.......#
#.B.B.B.#
#.......#
+.B.B.B.+
#.......#
#.B.B.B.#
#.......#
####+####

Once I moved them to an empty barracks defined from a weapon rack, there were no more brain/spine injuries until they became legendary wrestlers/shield users and I switched them to weapon training. A single dwarf received a spinal injury afterwards, but not before achieving "great macedwarf" status. The others (9 of them) trained up to legendary weapon user status without incident.

Can anyone else verify that the presence of furniture in barracks increases the rate of sparring injuries? If so, this should be added to the artcle. --[[User:Chris Acheson|Chris Acheson]] 12:37, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

:I haven't witnessed this. My barracks is littered with beds, and only one of my dwarves got a brain injury (light gray) while training up to champion (first marksdwarf, then wrestling, then weapons). I didn't even have them in especially good armor at first. Perhaps you just got unlucky.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 22:16, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

== Fortress guard ==

I know that the Fortress and Royal guards spar with great zeal, but will they use archery ranges if assigned crossbows? [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 11:26, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
:Turns out yes, but not consistently. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 12:12, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
::Can anyone provide some additional experiences with guards being assigned crossbows? In fort A, they practiced until they ran out of bolts and then proceeded to spar with the crossbows in melee; in fort B, they practiced like once a month and never sparred in melee. [[User:HeWhoIsPale|HeWhoIsPale]] 08:35, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
:::As far as I can tell with my current batch of dwarves, the less skill they have the more often they will opt to use the archery targets rather than spar in the barracks. Not sure why, but some dwarves just do not like using archery targets it seems, even when they have bolts in their quivers. Here's a couple methods I've found work well in getting my dwarves back to the archery targets:
:::* Forbid all metal bolts
:::* Set weapon to unarmed, armor to clothes, and shield to none, then give crossbows back
:::* Dump/forbid all stacks of bolts smaller than 5 big
:::* Set them to carry no food/water (Make sure they drop waterskin/backpack)
:::* Ensure there are no sparring partners available (no Barracks or off duty Wrestlers/Hammerdwarves works)
:::--[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 16:19, 4 February 2009 (EST)

== Speed of Training while Sparring ==

I have noticed something abnormal between dwarves that train.

I Drafted 8 or so dwarves at roughly the same time. I have them all off duty and in their own individual squads right now since all of them being in a squad didn't seem to make a difference.

What I'm noticing is that some Dwarves shoot up in wrestling skill tremendously fast, almost unrealistically. While some Dwarves train so slowly that while I have Dwarves at Champion level others are still only proficient wrestlers. [[User:Mission0|Mission0]] 18:07, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

I noticed it as well --[[User:Jackrabbit|Jackrabbit]] 19:37, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:I had a super-legendary miner go from Dabbling to Great wrestler tussling with just a single zombie Giant Rat. Then again, the fight took what seemed like several in-game days, during which the miner got pretty badly injured before he finally finished the rat off. I had drafted him to ensure that he would fight back properly... and because he hit 'Great', he became a [[Hero]] and would never work again, despite being my best miner... and mayor. And manager. And broker. Heh.

:Where sparring dwarves are concerned, I've found that sometimes while changing armor they fail to drop the items they're taking off, and extra stuff in the hands causes them to be unable to use their weapon or shield. They still spar, but apparently as wrestlers.--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 21:39, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

:Oh, it just occurred to me. If they get even a minor brain, neck, or spine injury, they'll never heal, and never spar again. Are the ones that aren't advancing injured?--[[User:Maximus|Maximus]] 23:19, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

== Happy Thoughts from Killing a Sparring Partner ==

One of my dwarves accidentally killed another in a sparring session, but received a happy thought. His profile says he took joy in slaughter lately, and this is his only kill. The other dwarf didn't die instantly, he suffocated. Is this something isolated? - [[User:Ducky|Ducky]] 15:02, 30 November 2008 (EST)
:I've experienced something similar. In my case the dwarf who killed his sparring partner (a friend) received a happy thought for taking joy in slaughter, but an unhappy thought from losing said friend to tragedy. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 16:26, 4 February 2009 (EST)

== Changing wrestler occupation ==

It seems impossible to make a crossbow dwarf from elite/hero wrestler. They will pick up crossbows, but not bolts, and will not practice at shooting range. This is VERY sad. A bug? --[[User:Alpha|Alpha]] 20:04, 9 March 2009 (EDT)

:Its likely they are holding something they grabbed while wrestling. My champion wrestlers will practice at the shooting range, just very rarely, even when I have in excess of 2000 miscellaneous bolts. Most of the time after they fire a stack of bolts they get grabbed by another soldier/guard to go sparring before they get a chance to grab more bolts. Long term soldiers also get the life doesn't mean much to them anymore thought, which I'm assuming makes them less motivated. A couple of the other discussion topics on this page cover getting dwarves back to the archery targets. --[[User:Elvang|Elvang]] 04:58, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

== Wrasslin' ==

I had some instances of axedwarves and wrestlers sparring. After a few minutes, the axedwarves became wrestlers, even though they were using axes. How does this work?